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Poor excuse for a member!

11-12-2011, 05:56 PM

I miss not viewing and posting on the forum; I've not been a good member. I'll attempt to share some pics from the field although they're not as good as I thought when I took them. Had a customer call me with a mainline backup. Fairly new development(I worked in there years ago), house recently purchased by Canadian, friend staying in the house with his family down from Canada. Called me out of the phone book. Opened the CO cap, line was holding towards the sewer. Jetted the line a few times. Line wasn't really built up, something was wrong, couldn't tell what. No, I don't yet own a camera, yes I need to get one. I give a 6 month 1 return trip guarantee. Meanwhile, the owner came into town a month later and paid me to hook a new meter to his irrigation system. Nice guy. Sure enough, he called me a few weeks later; house backed up again. Cleared it for free and told him if it happens again, we will definitely need to camera the line. Last week, it blocked up on a Friday afternoon. Cleared it and told him I would get it camera'd 1st thing next week. Let the city know there might be a problem with the tap. They camera'd the line, said "object going through the line 28' from the house.(Close to the tap) They did a terrible locate, but I finally found the line by spinning my 7/8" innercore with the K60. Can't complain, I didn't pay. Surveyor or engineer drove a property marker w/rebar straight through the line! They used 3" foamcore, not the 4" schedule 40 I would have used, but.. Lots of crap like this here, but what are the odds... Dead friggin center..

Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
attributed to Samuel Johnson
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PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

Comment

No, I never put a cable in the line until I started digging and needed a better "locate". I try to jet instead of cable- new pvc line. I had a feeling there was a problem the first time I cleared it; new pvc shouldn't back up that easy, plus I felt something wrong. 2nd clear took a few minutes, must have had a lot of paper built up around the spike. Based on the city "locate" I dug a 3.5-4' hole and started to hit water. Here in SW Fl, most of our lines aren't that deep. When I heard the cable, it was close to the sidewalk; I was only about 6 inches away from the edge of the hole! Plus, it was barely 2' deep. I know.. it's really warm down here; almost never gets too freezing. Yeah, I can rent a camera for around $180. That's if it's in the local branch across the river has it. It sometimes takes a day or two to get it. To rent the locator is extra $$. I know a plumber who will camera and locate for $250 for other plumbers/drain cleaners. Not a bad price, but the city checked this one out no charge. Those guys are happy to have work right now. I haven't made much $$ in the past year drain cleaning; it's plumbing repairs that have kept me going. For that reason, the wife thinks I'm nuts for wanting to invest in stuff like a camera. I try to explain that if we want to get serious or expand our drain cleaning business, you need certain tools. You don't get a ton of business, then think about buying the tools. So, til then, we rent or farm it out when needed.

While it may not meet code,it will be fine in his application because its only 2' deep provided he compacted the soil properly. They are frowned on because of deflection,mostly from heavy soil loads. It may meet his code and be perfectly legal,IDK

Comment

Code sections 705.14 PVC plastic, Joints between PVC plastic pipe or fittings shall comply with sections 705.14.1 through 705.14.3 705.14.1: Mechanical joints. Mechanical joints on drainage pipe shall be made with an elastomeric seal conforming to ASTM 1173, ASTM D 3212,etc. That Fernco does comply, BUT, I frown on using Ferncos in this particular application. The main reason is the one stated, deflection. Ferncos allow way too much deflection. But, because they're legal, I've seen guys make very sloppy cuts on sewer line, and put in a sloppy, loose fitting piece of pipe that is bridged with a Fernco. I cut the pipe as square as possible with a sawzall to a pre-determined length. The replacement piece is cut with a Reed pipe cutter with a PVC cutter wheel. Then, it's beveled nicely with a Reed de-burring tool. Using these tools and careful measurements, I can get the replacement section in very tight. Because of the deflection issue, I prefer to use the premium 4 clamp no-hub bands. For this repair, I was, unfortunately, out and only had one. I did line it up and cut it perfectly. And, like Master said, bed the pipe in with the very compatible backfill. So, you see one nice no-hub band and one carefully used Fernco. Where I live, I am an oddball; no plumber in their right mind will spend the $$ on those premium 4 clamp bands and around here, they are very hard to find. My rep at Hughes said they are out of 3" and won't be getting any more in; no one buys them! Everyone uses Ferncos. I know they make PVC repair coulings; very hard to find and can be a ***** to use I've been told. Pipe isn't very deep and has plenty of pitch. Now that there's no rebar in the line to catch paper, I probably won't hear from this customer for a long time, but we found and solved the problem. By the way, I don't mind using the Ferncos on repaired vent lines although it's usually just as easy to flex in a new cement coupling.

That statement right there is troubling, but I hear what you're saying.

I'm a plumber in my right mind and I buy the no-sheer couplings (with the stainless steel cover and 4-bands). We have to use them underground here. Period. Every inspector expects to see them. We have a lot of transitions from clay to PVC or CI to PVC too. I have seen regular fernco couplings sheer off and deform under load.

I'm a plumber in my right mind and I buy the no-sheer couplings (with the stainless steel cover and 4-bands). We have to use them underground here. Period. Every inspector expects to see them. We have a lot of transitions from clay to PVC or CI to PVC too. I have seen regular fernco couplings sheer off and deform under load.

We follow the same code as OP, but we would fail an inspection using a standard fernco underground. Everything has to be steel banded as well with the 4 clamps.

While it may not meet code,it will be fine in his application because its only 2' deep provided he compacted the soil properly. They are frowned on because of deflection,mostly from heavy soil loads. It may meet his code and be perfectly legal,IDK

Ferncos meet code here in Canada, as long as the pipe is cut properly. Sometimes Ferncos are the only way. Mind you, our sewers are 6 feet underground (minimum).

I **** you not, the City here slides 4 inch ABS into 6 Inch Clay Pipe and dumps cement around it. Works fine too.

I have seen people use ferncos incorrectly underground, causing the rubber to collapse etc

Comment

Just to be clear: The sentiment that no plumber in his right mind would spend big $$$ on band over Ferncos isn't mine; I'm the one looking to buy them. Rather, it's the mindset I observe from many peers and the guys at some supply counters. "You do realize these are $18 a piece, right?"
"Uh huh". "Still want 'em?" "Yes". "You know you could buy these Ferncos for $4.50... Most guys use Ferncos; I hardly ever sell these. Too damn expensive."
It's sad. $12-$18 is a lot of money for something that's going to be buried for years and hopefully not give a homeowner any trouble or failure. It's battle just keeping stocked up on certain products here, especially if they aren't the cheapest junk made. The cost of those bands gets passed to the customer just like every other expense. If a 4 clamp band is too much $$, I'm not your plumber. Times are tough, been so for a while, I've been as poor as anyone in my life, best of luck with your plumbing issues. The bands are far superior to Ferncos whether they meet code or not. Ferguson told me the got more 3" heavy bands in. I do pay top $$ at that supplier, but they'll also get anything you want.