Lynch is HOF-eligible for first time; Davis has been semifinalist for seven straight years, but never a finalist.

Good points, especially when you bring up draft day. Ted Gregory, Tommy Maddox, and Gerald Willhite were not all that great.

Someone told me once that, after they lost 27-0 to Chicago in Week 2 of the 1984 season, Louis Wright went up to Dan Reeves and called him an ogre, accusing him of being way too hard on the team. They ended up going on a long winning streak afterward.

Posted by John on 2014-09-17 23:52:30

Good stuff.

FWIW, I love the idea of putting Reeves in the Ring of Fame and I know he wasn't an awful head coach. I just wish he could have been more open minded--and he probably could have done better on draft day.

Oh well, it was fun. Reeves probably belongs in the HOF. I just wish our other heroes could join him. Gradishar, Davis, Nalen, Atwater, Meck, and Rod Smith deserve it.

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2014-09-17 22:50:34

Another thing: The 1978 rule changes helped an offense like the Walsh WCO to flourish, so that didn't hurt.

Also, defenses didn't evolve that much in the 80's and 90's. A lot of teams ran the same lame zones against SF's offense a lot of the time, and it was a factor in their success.

As for Reeves, though, I agree. Steve Watson called his offense the Edsel System, and basically said that Dan was more interested in pass protection than attacking a defense.

In the September 3, 1984 issue of SI, in the Extra Points section, Eason Ramson (a former SF TE that Denver just acquired at the time) said that Reeves' system was complicated. Also, Ronnie Lott was quoted as saying something along the lines of how Elway would be a passing leader if he was in the SF offense.

Posted by John on 2014-09-17 22:43:57

While Walsh, Montana, and Rice made history, Elway was handing off the ball to Winder and waiting for another third and long in the shotgun.

Other coaches saw the future and gave their quarterbacks a chance to innovate. Reeves recycled the past and made Elway clean up the mess.

That's why Denver hates Dan Reeves. We saw what other quarterbacks had and realized Elway was getting the shaft.

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2014-09-17 22:17:21

I am not the one who wrote that entry, so I don't have any citations. Jeremy Bolander did.

As for what Levy and Shula did, you make good points. However, with Walsh, it isn't quite that simple. He ran an offense like that by accident in 1970 when Greg Cook, their strong-armed rookie QB, tore his rotator cuff (and never played again).

Also, Fran Tarkenton claimed that the Giants were doing that type of short pass offense in 1967 before Walsh ever dreamed of doing it. Bud Grant also said that the Vikings did that when they had Tarkenton and Foreman.

Don't get me wrong. Walsh was a good coach, and he was great with QB's. Fouts credited him with turning around his career in his one year in SD in 1976. However, Bill seems to get more credit than he deserves.

Posted by John on 2014-09-17 21:45:13

Screw your analysis.

I need citations to specifically identify just when Elway held himself back.

Don Shula abandoned everything he knew about football to get the most out of his new quarterback. Meanwhile, Reeves continued to call the same recycled plays.

The Bills changed football by allowing their young quarterback to run the K-Gun. In an amazing leap of faith, Levy allowed his quarterback to actually call plays. Dan Reeves huddled up and called recycled Dallas plays.

Bil Walsh changed football by scheming an offense that used pass plays and yards after the catch to move the football. In this crazy new scheme, the run game was less important because the offense created matchup problems and the receivers blocked for other receivers. Meanwhile, Dan Reeves called recycled plays from Dallas.

In the comments section, there is a guy named Jeremy Bolander who basically doesn't blame Dan Reeves for Elway's problems early on. Here is an excerpt:

Of interest to the "Reeves held Elway back" argument, is that in New York and then in Atlanta, Reeves helped his QBs to some of their best seasons. Simms enjoyed the highest completion % of his career, and journeyman Chandler went from being on the roster bubble to the probowl, including a season with a staggering 9YPA and 100.9 passer rating. Before Elway, Morton enjoyed the highest passer rating of his career under Reeves as well, and we don’t even need to talk about Staubauch running Reeves’ offense under Landry.

Elway held Elway back, with immaturity and fear, in a pressure-cooker environment where the fan base was desperate for him to be as great as he flashed. In hindsight, the classic player’s-coach/tough-love coaching style that Reeves inherited from landry was probably not the best approach for getting the best out of an uber-talented, but coddled and immature QB. Elway’s father kept him out of Baltimore on the grounds that Kush was a regimented old-school coach who wouldn’t adapt to new ideas (i.e. build around the one-back spread). Limited choices (which is more than other draftees could say) gave them a choice between that or the southern gentleman who was also old-school, but perhaps less strict. I’d like to think that this led to a better man at the end of Elway’s career at the cost of being a better QB early in his career…but who knows?

Posted by John on 2014-09-17 21:02:29

Lynch was a super bowl winning safety on a dominate defense, Atwater was along for the ride of TD and Elway.

I did a count a long time ago of the number HOF voters west of the central time zone IIRC it was 6 of the 32 active voters at the time. Since denver plays in the hinterland and almost always the late game 81% of the voters rarely see bronco players on a regular basis. the rare exceptions are when they play the team that the voters cover, an early east coast game and even then odds are they are covering the team they are paid to cover.

then add in the lobbying of those 80% voters that are tryng to get one of their players into the HOF, our guys are up shit creek without a paddle.

now you say Sharpe was voted in, but then he played on the crows team for awhile setting more TE records each week, playing against a lot of those voters teams add in being a triple SB winner and on TV each week..

About the only one I see as a pure Bronco getting in is TD and those odds are less than 50-50 in the foreseeable future.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2014-09-17 17:26:48

Those Super Bowls happened (mostly) in spite of Dan Reeves.

John Elway under center, Shanahan calling plays (but only when the team is desperate), and Wade Phillips running the defense.

That's one helluva supporting cast.

Dan Reeves was nothing special. Winder running the Dallas sweep to the right side was the most idiodic and predictable play in football.

I think Reeves is vilified just a hair too much by Broncos fans. He was able to take Denver to three Super Bowls, though I completely understand fan frustration with the results from those games.

Posted by Hank Mardukis on 2014-09-17 09:27:43

I would also compare TD to Kurt Warner (who's eligible this year, and might get in). Warner had only 5 good years, and a few mediocre ones. He was cut by 3 teams, and benched at various times. His career as a good player was very short.

Posted by billyricky on 2014-09-17 05:11:35

I'm going to be pretty bummed if Lynch gets in before Atwater. Atwater was the better player, no question in my mind.

Posted by billyricky on 2014-09-17 05:06:02

I would greet a Reeves/Elam ticket with just slightly more enthusiasm than Perry/Jindal.

Posted by Yahmule on 2014-09-17 03:07:11

(I can't resist) It's a travesty that Terrell Davis isn't in the Hall of Fame, as he was the greatest postseason rusher ever, was Super Bowl (and regular season) MVP and won two Super Bowls in a row.

Davis had the two highest rushing yards seasons ever, by far (including the playoffs): 2,476 and 2,331 yards, while Eric Dickerson’s the only other player over 2,200.

Including the playoffs, and including receiving, Davis also had the first and third highest total yards from scrimmage seasons ever, at 2,762 and 2,656. (Marshall Faulk’s Super Bowl winning season in 1999, where he had over a thousand yards receiving, gave a total of 2,686.)

These are post-season statistics for various Hall of Fame, Super Bowl MVP rushers: