They did fine without the krieg, but I think mouz is one of those teams, that just can't get a rhythm when playing from home. Navi is another that seems to have collapsed completely without the structure of bootcamp -> groupstage -> playoffs. But I think it affects all the teams, and it's more than just about ping

So are we gonna ignore every other LAN and online before that just because of one miraculous run where they didnt even play that good ? All they did was, literally all 5 players were on 150% steamrole mode. Won every duel and every situation without actually having much setups or deep strategy. Hot runs like that happen. If you're gonna just come out with "wHaT aBOut kAtoW!c3" argument, when they ve been shit for this entire time besides that run, then I dont know what to tell you. You're under a spell. I'm sorry for you.

I mean you should take a chill pill my guy. They had been bouncing around good and bad for a while. That event could have been the start of something good for them, but we will never know now as it's all online. I didn't even get hostile, I just brought up an event on LAN and they absolutely dominated. Your rationale about how they did or didn't use setups is moot because a win is a win. Just because it's not what you consider good CS doesn't mean it couldn't work. Beating Astralis 2-0 that handedly does not come easy.

The "legit" teams in world counter-strike would usually survive the move to online. The only consistent part of that event that Na'Vi could hope to carry to the future is S1mple's performance. Perfecto and Boombl4 overperformed.

There's plenty of teams that have proven that to not really be true over the years. Some teams just thrive in a LAN environment and without it they either seem to be unable to get going or just don't care that much. Notably in CSGO, there was quite a long stretch where the classic VP team used to lose to the most random teams online and then show up and smash everyone at LAN. Conversely, there's been plenty of teams over all iterations of the game that have been amazing online but unable to replicate that form when it comes to LAN (German CS:S teams were notorious for this). Ultimately LAN is the ultimate proving ground and it's what you do there that defines whether you're "legit" or not.

Being the operative phrase. I had VP and also current Fnatic in mind when I was writing that comment. You've also named a single top tier team in CSGO that was amazing on LAN and bad online, and not to mention the most infamous case of this phenomena. VP is an outlier in this case. EPL was online for so many years up until recent times, the "legit" teams almost always made it through.

You've also made a false equivalency as well: It is far more abnormal for a team that is good on LAN to be bad online, than for a team that is bad on LAN to be good online.

The point is during pro league they were not buying it most of the time and they had wins against most of the top teams in the event and almost won the entire event. Attributing their weak form since EPL to the Krieg nerf just doesn't make any sense.

It's really much less effective unless the CT starts pushing up for info or space and you're holding that angle. Problem is if they don't you kind of just do nothing. Another alternative is to flash the AWPer off his angle and expect a repeek, but most in pro play won't repeek a lost angle because if you peek you will usually lose. The fact that Ts have to peek makes the AWP a pretty shitty investment compared to say, an AK, 2 flashes, a molly and a smoke. And then there are crossfire CT setups, as an AWPer good luck dealing with that shit. All you can do is stay back but usually you're not exactly being useful.

T side Inferno is difficult to make work as an awper but device rarely plays awp on it because of it. He plays entry on B. Sometimes a half is off and in this case he couldn't hit the shots to make the role work.

I didnt watch this particular game because of work but they have been progressively getting worse since losing the esl proleague final - and long breaks actually made them significantly worse rather than better prepared (think the terrible, terrible showing vs. Godsent). I dont know whats up with the team, but somethings fucked.

I think the casting of Rush in the “taker of Ls” role for coL is pretty interesting. Similar to RPK in summer vitality, he takes lower buys in some rounds to ensure his team has money going forward. He also entry frags, holds smokes and jiggle peaks apartments on inferno, and has similar roles across the board.

On another note, this was not even remotely close. Domination across the board from coL and nice to see the results of some intensive anti-stratting on inferno.

I think Rush did well this game. He was pretty low on the scoreboard, but he had good impact frags and played with really good teamwork. I've been a critic lately but he did well in the support role. Hope they can keep this up.

Tbh it could be different as there is a mix of young guns with something to prove rather than the superstar packed roster that Faze had. But the similarities are becoming all too apparent at the moment. Would be nice to see mouse competing as Faze v Mouz matches are absolute bangers, but right now I don't see how they get themselves out of this rut.

He has that one problem when he sometimes sees red. He gets 2k on base of aggressive unexpected push and then his calculated agression turns into overaggression leading to his death and sometimes rounds losses. Seems to do less of that stuff nowadays tho.

This game wasn't competitive whatsoever, mouz were never really in it. Inferno 9-9 you think oh mouz might comeback nope lose 7 rounds straight and most of them lost convincing wins from CoL.

Dust2 they thanks to ropz put up 6 rounds win 2nd pistol you think at 7-9 mouz might comeback, nope lose to forcebuy and proceed to losing 5 rounds in a row.

Overall apart from a few point in the match it never felt like a mouz game, CoL pretty much had it in their bag. Konfig was posting numbers and rush even though wasnt tearing it apart had some big impact kills. Obo pistol ace helped a lot as well but overall it felt CoL were winning coz of their teamwork while mouz were winning rounds off of heroic plays.

Great win! Guys came out swinging today for sure. Huge d2 pistol round by Obo, nice calls by blame, perfect anti-strat by keita and anton, and everyone really stepped up and did their job with energy and focus. Love to see it.

Mouz keeps positioning themselves like they have the kreig, and are getting burned for it. Its not that they just cant aim or anything, but they keep putting themselves into spots that would be 50/50 or better with a kreig, and are now way more disadvantageous without it.

Youre acting like it was only specific players. Only astralis in the last 2-3 weeks before the nerf didnt use it, other than that every fucking team. Are you happy when every team except Astralis loses?

Its a competitive sport of course people should use every legal advantage they can

The gun was that strong for 5 years. Teams are actually retarded for not using it

The only teams I can think of right now who massively underperformed recently are Fnatic, Mouz and Navi. Fnatic and Mouz teams were in the finals of Pro League S11 and Navi was 4th, then they suddenly dropped off massively in RtR. Both events were online so what changed?

Mouz's krieg usage as a team was 17.21% Among the Top 10 teams at the time, mousesports ranked 4th in krieg usage, only behind Navi, EG and 100T. If you compare it to the Top 20 they'd be ranked 7th.

except Chrisj maybe but even his percentages are not that high.

What? Now I'm certain you didn't even bother to look at the data. ChrisJ's krieg usage is 29.88% If you compared his krieg usage among ALL the other players in Top 10 teams he'd be ranked 4th, just behind Brollan, Brehze and electronic.

If all this data won't convince you then I don't know what will. But go ahead and continue to spread bullshit and try to spin the data to fit your narrative.

LMFAO. They’re literally Top 4 out of 10 and Top 7 out of 20 in krieg usage and you still think that they aren’t a krieg heavy team?

If they were ranked lower than 5 or lower than 10 in the Top 10 and Top 20 respectively I’d think so. But they’re not, in both ranges they’re ranked in the upper half. Stay in denial if you want lol. Despite seeing the stats you still think you’re right.

There’s room for improvement but that doesn’t mean they aren’t “looking good.” G2 was 2nd for RtR Eu and FaZe was third. IIRC G2 is top of their group for Dreamhack. Mouz is the only team looking shaky and we’re still not sure where CoL stand.