Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

Lee Sin nerfs being uncalled for... (Wall of Text)

PBE CHANGES: Safeguard no longer refunds energy when broken down from half refunded if broken. Iron Will's Life Steal and Spell Vamp increased to 5/10/15/20/25% from 5/9/13/17/21% Iron Will no longer grants bonus armor down from 10/15/20/25/30 armor. Cripple's slow / attack speed slow reduced to 20/30/40/50/60% from 30/37.5/45/52.5/60%

This is only my take but let me start off by saying i probably have around 500 lee sin games between my 2 accounts so i can say its my favorite champion and he is the most fun i ever had playing any other character in any other game. He is the only reason i have ever expended real money to get a skin. The one thing i don't like about him is how punishing his kit is should you misplay even in the slightest. I have taken that to a challenge and decided to play him to the best of my capabilities and i have found baffled by this nerfs.

Season 3 jungle changes really hurt Lee Sin clear and unlike other junglers like Olaf/Mundo/Maokai/Nocturne he doesn't scale really well into late game. His game dominance is reduced to early game and the start of mid game. So you are trading his armor and energy gain for 1% of life steal and spell vamp on levels.

His clear without a smite-less leash made him low enough to pull off a gank but now as i tested on the PBE you are too low to pull of a gank so you have even less time to actually pull of a gank. His early game strength was already countered by wards, the same way as shaco. As every lane can start with wards and not be heavily punished for it.

His dueling got a lot worst, especially early game, as the armor and energy gain made him able to, if played perfectly, to stand toe to toe with good duelist. Now i don't think Lee can fend off shyvana's, Xin Zhao's or Olaf's invades.

His only method of gaining energy other than auto-attacking got removed. So other junglers that excel into slowing attack speed such as Malphite make him even a bigger counter than before.

His items viability and tanking ability also got hurt, since with that 30 armor late game you could buy some hp mixed with ad and still be efficient. Now i fear that should you fall behind as Lee Sin, you will have a even worst late game since his kit doesn't provide any tanking ability for him to peel of for his ad or ap carry, or even worst go fish for the enemy ad. How is he going to endure the assault from the ad carry and enemy tank line, especially with his new impairment of not being able to refund some energy back should you miss one. He is even more punishing as a character for misplays, which is not fun at all. Missing one of his skills is going not only to leave him either stranded between the enemy team with no ability to tank but also no ability to gain some energy back from any of your skills.

How is it fair that other junglers got even faster in their jungle with the season 3 changes but Lee's got slower? Also to add insult to injury riot decides to nerf him on multiple areas. Especially his early game, removing core elements from his kit like the energy refund. Also making his first clear a bit more dangerous.

PBE CHANGES: Safeguard no longer refunds energy when broken down from half refunded if broken

fyi the tool tip was never updated in season one when they remove this ability.

i am a 2k+ games played as lee i do not agree with these lee changes at all. your taking away from his tool box and early game junling/laning trading and replacing it with a small buff in life steal/spell vamp. {where spell-vamp/life steal more then likely will not recover enough life to make up for the difference in damage taken from having less Armour.}

then nerfing his early game ganking power by reducing low lvl cripple slow % when it already only lasts a very short amount of time.

fyi the tool tip was never updated in season one when they remove this ability.

i am a 2k+ games played as lee i do not agree with these lee changes at all. your taking away from his tool box and early game junling/laning trading and replacing it with a small buff in life steal/spell vamp. {where spell-vamp/life steal more then likely will not recover enough life to make up for the difference in damage taken from having less Armour.}

then nerfing his early game ganking power by reducing low lvl cripple slow % when it already only lasts a very short amount of time.

not only this but with the season 3 jungle changes most lanes start with a ward now so his early ganks are that much harder if you can pull of any, with this nerfs they are going to be useless, his shield now is practically useless to level up. Before you had the room to play between maxing Q for damage, W for tankiness and sustain or E for stronger ganks. Now W seems so lackluster to level up, 1% lifesteal and spell vamp isnt even close to how useful the armor was, they didnt even tried lowering the armor, but remove it right of the bat. This nerf is too hard on such a high skill cap champion, its crippling his kit and making him pigeon head into leveling Q, i liked the versatility of being able to choose between Q W or E depending on the situation

Of all champions they nerf ... Lee Sin? One of the highest skill cap champions in the game who no one was complaining about?

What the hell, Riot?

He has A LOT of utility packed into his kit. I mean A LOT.

It really isn't surprising. I ban him every chance I get in ranked, because he will kill people early on, camp lanes, and in general be annoying all game long. Now if they would remove Darius's attack speed slow from his cripple I'd be a happy camper (another champion that has way too much in every one of his skills).

I also don't get why the OP says Lee is the worst in the early game... That is where he wins the game for his team...

Also, look at Ezreal. His W used to Heal, increase attack speed, and decrease attack speed. Now it only does one of those (Increasing ally attack speed). Corki's Q used to blind. Etc, etc. Champions sometimes have some utility taken away for game balance, and honestly Lee deserves some of it.