April 21, 2017

Dan's Workshop: Footer or Piers?

Footer or piers? Footer or piers? The first step to any building is the foundation and this question has been under consideration for some time: piers, a footer, or maybe simply a pole barn like Pa Mac? In the end Dan decided on piers. Here's why.

If we'd had cedars to work with, a pole barn would have been an excellent option. As it is, we have pine, which especially untreated like ours, will quickly rot in the ground. No good.

A footer would have required digging a trench. Tree roots and heavy clay were a deterrent to doing it by hand, which meant we'd have to rent equipment to dig it.

The next step would have been to build a form for the footer. That would have meant more materials, although some just pour the concrete directly into the trench.

Being able to mix and pour all that concrete was another consideration. Ideally the entire footer should be poured at the same time, but our little mixer wouldn't be able to do that. The other option would be having someone deliver and pour what we needed.

Piers meant working with smaller, more manageable batches.

With a footer, the entire surface would have to be leveled. With piers, the posts can be cut to the length required.

Because we're using untreated homegrown, home-milled lumber, Dan wanted to keep it as far from the ground as possible. Moisture and termites do not promote longevity.

This way the posts can be set on top of the pier, but the plywood siding (which is treated) can come closer to the ground.

I don't think I will ever build another pole barn. Back in the day it was fine because cedar poles could last as long as the barn. These days with modern materials, barns will out last the poles by a magnitude of years. Pole barns that we put up 40 years ago using industrial creosote treated poles have had all the poles replaced probably a decade back. We do have some cedar fence posts that are maybe 40 years old but up here, getting those long/straight enough for a pole barn is impossible.

Either piers or a footer are acceptable. The only reason I lean towards a footer despite the extra work and materials you mentioned is for rodent prevention in the building once it is built. With a footer, we can keep our out buildings rodent free but it is much harder with piers. With piers, we pour a floating slab inside and then use landscape wire mesh and small limestone chips that can be packed to fill up the area between the slab and around the piers. Still once a season we have to go around the outside and fill in all the places where animals are trying to get in so it requires maintenance. With a footer, it is maintenance free.

Hi Leigh! :) I love the photo of the peanut gallery lol!!! So curious! Thank you for posting this progress. We don't know too much about building things, I love to see real people doing it. I mean, we watch "This Old House" but those guys have all the tools and money they need to make a tv show! The footers look great! I'm staying tuned... :)

Oh, my gosh! we have been deliberating over the very same decision! we also have home milled lumber. I am going to show this to the DH. I think we have a winner. Thank you for sharing in such a simple easy to understand way!

Dan would probably recommend Carpentry and Building Construction by Feirer, Hutchings, and Feirer. He has an older edition but it's his go-to book for any kind of building or repair job. This particular edition is actually a school textbook so it has a career chapter, but the techniques are well illustrated and well explained.

Yup piers are the way to go. We did our deck with them since the land drops off at one end quite steeply. They are big, deep and needed equally large square treated lumber. The deck itself may be light but the snow load it carries over a mountain winter is very heavy. Most things up here are built to carry between 80-120 psf and decks are no different, flat too so no shedding.

Laughing at the peanut gallery 😊 Goats must be on the forefront of every project within their view. I sometimes think all goats were building contractors in their last existence. Excited to see the project on its way!

They are the most curious creatures! And always underfoot if possible. When Dan built a shelter in our front pasture, our pygmy buck would come running (as best as pygmies can run, that is) as soon as he saw Dan coming with the wheelbarrow loaded with tools. Then he'd keep knocking the wheelbarrow over, LOL. It didn't matter how many times he got chased off, he'd bounce right back.

Good for Dan! Thanks for the book tip also. The goats are so cute and curious! Who doesn't love an audience? Such meticulous craftsmanship....it must require great patience which I might be a little short of in the building area but I guess if I had to I would. At my age it would take me so long the cement would probably be hard by the time I got to pouring it! LOL! So interesting!

5 Acres & A Dream. The dream has always been to live close to the land. The 5 acres came in 2009, when my husband Dan and I bought a neglected 1920s-built bungalow on 5 acres. The goal is simpler, sustainable, more self-reliant living, and a return to agrarian values.

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