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Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

Not expecting much, but hoping we get some of those flashes of brilliance we've seen a few times on a more consistent basis. The addition of DJ, Greene, and maybe an improved Lance, PLUS the fact that the minutes for bench players will be reduced, gives me hope that his strengths will be strengthened and his weaknesses can be hidden.

If nothing else, make him a goon. Bring him in just to scare Dwayne Wade. And, yeah, like Sandman said, he could "accidentally" bump Dunleavy's nose.

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

Ya, I was gonna post this. Joe asked if Tyler had gotten better. I'm going from memory here. Austin goes, er, um, er um, er....you have to use him to his strength in the pick n roll, not dump it in the post and hes' not a stretch 4. He then very nicely said that he didn't see much difference in Tyler's game. Its segment 6 here..

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

There's not a single thing in the article about Tyler improving. Players have been back for a week, that's plenty of time to write a puff piece. No talk him shooting well from midrange, or going left, or defending and rebounding. No statement about one particular play where Tyler was effective. Several statements about getting better by adding other players. All from the Pacers' official website.

This is a kiss-of-death article. If there was management interest in keeping him, some of those things would be mentioned. This article is paving the way for letting Tyler walk.

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I don't expect Tyler to be back after this year, and that's even if he makes it through the whole season here. His only real contribution is scoring and he certainly isn't very efficient at doing that.

"I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

As I was reading IndyCornrows this morning, I thought "Wait, did they rip this off Pacers.com?" Then I went to Pacers.com for the original and realized.... the original was on IndyCornrows. But I figured I could sneak on here and correct it... I mean how many people would have seen the article since I posted it?

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I think part of our problem with Tyler is we expected to much from him last year (ok, it wasn't good either, but I'll explain). Our second unit last year was pretty bad, and an extra expectation was put on Tyler to help carry that load. When Foster went down, he was put in an awful position of being an untalented player trying to be a scorer on a fairly bad second unit in an undersized front line. Tyler is best when he is expected to create nothing, hustle like hell, put the fear of God into some opposing players, get called for a couple charges, travel twice, and get to the foul line 6 times. Hopefully adding a more facilitating pg to the second unit will help get Tyler open looks in the 10-15 foot range (I believe that can be his game). Also, there will be more size on the back-up front line with Miahinmi, which should take some pressure off of Tyler. And with Green possibly emerging as a definitive number one scoring option on a second unit, this should limit Tyler to more of a role player (I.E., hustle, get fouled, play angry, hit a couple open mid-range jumpers.) All of this should make Tyler a better player by default.

Or he could look exactly the same as last year, but since I'm feeling optimistic about the team I might as well feel optimistic about the entire team.

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I do think the indycornrows article has a legit thought about Tyler playing along side a real center. His best ball was the end of the season, two seasons ago, when he played along side Roy with the starters. Hopefully if he plays with Mahinmi, he gets the right match up and they both aren't trying to exist in the same role. If Austin can't muster some polyanna smoke to blow while he's working FOR the Pacers, I'm not optimistic though. I just really can't understand how good he played two seasons ago after the allstar break and I honestly don't remember one game like that last year. Where's that guy at?

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

The excuses stop this year. If a college star cannot play effectively on a team with resources, then the pick was botched. I was skeptical throughout his time here. I knew his surge would be scouted. He has yet to add anything. His footwork is mechanical, like a box shifting on a moving truck.

If he does not improve, then what hope can I have for Plumlee. Granger and Hibbert are really the only for sure great picks. Paul George is a good pick. But it would be a great pick if he was selected by us ahead of the Clippers and Utah. I think Bird did well with the Free Agency and not overreacting by making a move too quick for all the wrong reason. But the draft, IMO, he is subpar.

So why was he allowed to make the Plumlee pick if he is not here to be held accountable to the pick?

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

The excuses stop this year. If a college star cannot play effectively on a team with resources, then the pick was botched. I was skeptical throughout his time here. I knew his surge would be scouted. He has yet to add anything. His footwork is mechanical, like a box shifting on a moving truck.

If he does not improve, then what hope can I have for Plumlee. Granger and Hibbert are really the only for sure great picks. Paul George is a good pick. But it would be a great pick if he was selected by us ahead of the Clippers and Utah. I think Bird did well with the Free Agency and not overreacting by making a move too quick for all the wrong reason. But the draft, IMO, he is subpar.

So why was he allowed to make the Plumlee pick if he is not here to be held accountable to the pick?

I think if you were to look at Bird's drafting during his time here and compare it to all the other teams, he would easily rank in the top 5 over that time period. Sure I'm skeptical about Plumlee, but Granger, Hibbert, George and getting Hill are all great picks and/or moves. Plus still have to see on Lance, Plumlee and OJ.

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I'm looking for some improvement and maybe some new moves that will make him more tradable around the trade deadline, mid season. IMO, the lack of offense other than Hans on the 2nd unit last ear hurt his game. I wonder about the amount of damage the Dunleavy hit to his head did him. Seemed to me his game faltered after that especially while wearing the goggles. 2 years ago with Roy, Danny, Paul and Darren on the floor there was no way to "plan" for Tyler and his energy. With Lou and DJones, not too diffucult to shut down the non- passing PF position Tyler neds to spend more floor time with the starters running the same kinds of plays DWest does, imo, otherwise we need to start shopping him around.

"Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire"Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I think we will see him in a new uniform soon. While he is my avatar, I'm not a big fan so I'm fine with that. I was hoping he would turn out to be Jeff Foster plus good offense, but I was sorely disappointed. I expected him to be money from midrange, but quite frankly I didn't follow him in the NCAA's. He's not shown he can drain it...and unless that changes he needs to go. Plumlee will help more in the paint IMO.

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

They tried to move Tyler for cap space and couldn't. The discussion ends right there because it says everything about the league opinion on him at this point. Enough excuses. I caught a lot of hell for my scouting opinions of his game and I've yet to see anything proving those opinions wrong except for "I don't think he'll get the foul calls at the NBA level", and I think that skill is fading as refs adjust to his game.

They will move him or let him walk at the end of the season. I expect his game to look identical to what it's looked like for 6-7 years now. If you want to look west at sunrise hoping "today is the day" then go ahead, optimism and hope are nice. But I won't be joining you.

Tyler is a hard worker and puts out great effort. I'm not debating his qualities as a human being. I'm evaluating his ability to excel in the NBA environment only. Give me his money and I'll bust my a** even more, but I'll still suck at the end of the day, and tenfold more than Tyler.

Drafrting by Bird. Don't mix FA moves/trades with drafts.

Hibbert at 17 is awesome.

Granger and Paul George were picked where most draft experts thought they should go. In fact Granger seemed like a steal that night, falling due to knee worries. TBird told the entire PD draft group BEFORE the pick that PG was the guy to get, and he did it for free instead of NBA GM salary.

If you take Leonard then it's a good draft. We don't know for sure that without the Hill deal Bird would have done that. That might have been the Spurs request only.

Shawne, White (trading picks to get) was awful.

Tyler was awful (esp if you could have let Chicago take him and moved to their 2 picks, pulling Holiday and Blair/Chase/S Young)

Bayless trade was awful because Bird turned that into NOTHING. You traded Rush for Lou and let Lou walk, you let JJack walk, you let Josh walk. You had a HR deal where you got 3 solid bench players with one pick, but turned it into no players within a few years.

Plumlee was awful because you could have got him in round 2. Bird overspent (ditto Tyler).

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Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I've always wondered if something in the Hansbrough draft happened like what occurred with Augustin. Where someone else was targeted and they got picked earlier than expected. Hansbrough just seems like a panic pick at 11. Take the established college name even though his ability to translate to the NBA is questionable.

Anyway, I go back to last year's preseason when people were saying HAnsbrough would push West for the starting job....ha....ha

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

They tried to move Tyler for cap space and couldn't. The discussion ends right there because it says everything about the league opinion on him at this point. Enough excuses. I caught a lot of hell for my scouting opinions of his game and I've yet to see anything proving those opinions wrong except for "I don't think he'll get the foul calls at the NBA level", and I think that skill is fading as refs adjust to his game.

They will move him or let him walk at the end of the season. I expect his game to look identical to what it's looked like for 6-7 years now. If you want to look west at sunrise hoping "today is the day" then go ahead, optimism and hope are nice. But I won't be joining you.

Tyler is a hard worker and puts out great effort. I'm not debating his qualities as a human being. I'm evaluating his ability to excel in the NBA environment only. Give me his money and I'll bust my a** even more, but I'll still suck at the end of the day, and tenfold more than Tyler.

Drafrting by Bird. Don't mix FA moves/trades with drafts.

Hibbert at 17 is awesome.

Granger and Paul George were picked where most draft experts thought they should go. In fact Granger seemed like a steal that night, falling due to knee worries. TBird told the entire PD draft group BEFORE the pick that PG was the guy to get, and he did it for free instead of NBA GM salary.

If you take Leonard then it's a good draft. We don't know for sure that without the Hill deal Bird would have done that. That might have been the Spurs request only.

Shawne, White (trading picks to get) was awful.

Tyler was awful (esp if you could have let Chicago take him and moved to their 2 picks, pulling Holiday and Blair/Chase/S Young)

Bayless trade was awful because Bird turned that into NOTHING. You traded Rush for Lou and let Lou walk, you let JJack walk, you let Josh walk. You had a HR deal where you got 3 solid bench players with one pick, but turned it into no players within a few years.

Plumlee was awful because you could have got him in round 2. Bird overspent (ditto Tyler).

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

That was a lot to type just to say he has some hits and some misses, just like every other GM. You could have just said the Pacers had the 5th best record in the NBA last year so it's obvious he's done a stellar job.

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

That was a lot to type just to say he has some hits and some misses, just like every other GM. You could have just said the Pacers had the 5th best record in the NBA last year so it's obvious he's done a stellar job.

He is not saying he didn't do a stellar job.

Look George and Granger were easy picks to make. Sure we could have picked Gerald Green or Ed Davis, but most people didn't think" Wow what a surprise pick by Bird".

They did that with Williams, Tyler, and Plumlee. And we pretty much know the results.

Bird did a lot for this franchise. His FA pick ups were good for this team. His willingness to sign Danny to a good contract was great. Getting rid of Murphy was a plus. But he is average at best on draft night.

Drafting is a C
Other duties B+
Inheriting a future stock of a team graded at D+
Overall grade A IMO

Re: What are we expecting from Tyler this year?

I think if you were to look at Bird's drafting during his time here and compare it to all the other teams, he would easily rank in the top 5 over that time period. Sure I'm skeptical about Plumlee, but Granger, Hibbert, George and getting Hill are all great picks and/or moves. Plus still have to see on Lance, Plumlee and OJ.