Except for his unfortunate go along to get along support of TARP, bailouts, stimulus spending and the increased credit limit, etc, Ryan is a pretty good choice. Probably the best choice of the RINOS that were on Romney's short list. I support Ryan for the vice presidency. Wish he were at the top of the ticket, though.

But I still cannot and will not support the grand father of ObamaCare. Romney still loves and brags about his bastard brainchild, RomneyCare, even today when he knows what an anti-liberty socialist POS it is.

And the fact that he advocated that abortion should be safe and legal in America for over three decades of his adult lifetime and even advocated that Roe v Wade should be supported and sustained as settled law precludes any consideration whatsoever by this pro-life Christian for Myth Romney for the presidency.

And the fact that he boasted that he would be better for "gay rights" than Ted Kennedy, and proved it just increases my resistance.

That, and his penchant for gun control, his continuing support for global warming, gays in the scouts, gays in the military, and his record of appointing liberal judges makes it all but impossible for me to support him.

Lastly, we're having a bit of changeover on our moderator staff. At least two moderators resigned this afternoon after I flatly refused to rein in a so-called anti-Mormon "bigot" on FR. Well, if being in opposition to false prophets and false prophecy makes a Christian believer a bigot, then I guess I'm a bigot. I've posted before that I flat do not believe that the Book of Mormon is the true word of God. Nor do I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. The Christian bible warns us to be weary of false prophets and that I am. Romney being the presumptive Republican nominee does not change that fact.

“***I didnt see that at all. They were invariably true conservatives. It was a small website. The republican loyalists didnt start showing up until the 2000 election.”

Then I will go with what you say. I didn’t start lurking at FR until after the 2000 election. However, I am conservative first, Republican next. Also, although I am primarily a SOCON and National Defense conservative, I am fiscally conservative because it is the “right” thing to do. You don’t spend more money than you make...whether you are an individual or a government. And you don’t keep “taxing and spending” as the old mantra went!

Anyway, my point is that I hold to all three legs. I keep encountering folks here that are really only “fiscal” conservatives....and I question if they even have that right.

4,251
posted on 08/16/2012 10:43:36 AM PDT
by Sola Veritas
(Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)

I follow latest posts every day and I’ve read a lot of religious debates. I can’t say that I’ve seen on FR a phenomenon of people pushing the Mormon religion. I’ve read many posts attacking the Mormon religion.

The times I got involved in the Religious forum, it was always an article warning about Mormonism.

Just letting you know my observations. There could be a zillion pro mormon posts but then again the reaction of the typical consumer is often valid. As a constant consumer of FR I’m aware of a trend to express concern about Mormonism. It’s definitely not my issue.

Your uncalled for personal attacks aside, you completely went off the deep end when I demonstrated very succinctly that there is a huge difference between actions and words.

I am voting for a Mormon that happens to be one of the most conservative sitting Senators over a Jewish liberal congresswoman. His Mormon faith (and her Jewish faith, since I am a Jew) means absolutely nothing to me politically, and I keep pointing that out over and over again because any political campaign shouldn’t be evaluated solely on a candidate’s religion.

I am NOT one of the posters who decided to make this thread about Romney’s religion, and posting all the anti-Mormon conspiracy crap.

People like you want to make it about Mormons to forward whatever reason. It is more than enough to state “I’m not voting for Romney because of x, y, and z.” That is perfectly acceptable. But to make it about religion makes you look like a bigot. That is beneath and doesn’t hold up to conservative scrutiny.

I was a Mormon for 45 years, I suppose you just want me to STHU so that Mormons can keep telling the lies they told me. You want me to just continue letting them distort their history, their dogma, their intentions, so that they can continue proselyting to Freepers unabated with no interference.

Are you serious? What is a Jew to do when confronted with a lie that might harm others?

“The two shouldn’t even be mentioned together in the same reply, there’s just no comparison that could possibly put M.R. in a good light. M.R. is the epitome of liberalism while R.R. was the shining light of conservatism.”

Agreed. For conservatives today, that were adults when Ronald Reagan was POTUS, he is considered the Best POTUS the republic every had! If it weren’t “conservative blasphemy”, I would actually laugh at somone that would dare to compare Myth with Ronald Reagan.

4,258
posted on 08/16/2012 10:57:17 AM PDT
by Sola Veritas
(Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)

When you read these posts in the Religion Forum exposing Mormonism not attacking it, where you aware that they are posted using the words of Mormon leaders, and quotes from their own doctrines?
Many of us have decades of experiences with Mormonism and know it well, which is why we try and expose it.
If you find the information incorrect, please point it out. Thanks.

4,264
posted on 08/16/2012 11:13:17 AM PDT
by roylene
(Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)

Reagan was vehemently pro-life while in office. So was GW Bush. Any Republican president has to be now. But even if pro-life and nominating pro-life candidates for SCOTUS, you need a Congress that will approve those nominations.

And Roberts displayed as a pro life SCOTUS justice that words mean little. His actions damaged not only the pro life cause, but the fiscal conservative one.

Obama already demonstrated he will bypass Congress. And Congress already demonstrated they will not impeach him over it. They will not even pass a budget. Marxism must be stopped cold dead in its tracks.

I am not ABO. I am for someone who has a record of signing pro life legislation among several other issues I personally evaluate, and more importantly, what is put in front of him by a Conservative majority Congress.

You vote how you like. I am voting for Romney & Ryan, I explained how my conscience is clear, and my measly one vote doesn’t matter in a sea of millions, so no need to convince me otherwise.

One of your references is from from 2007 and now you and Jim are calling him a liar. I think you are extremely judgmental as you simply cannot know that. You resent Romney for past weaknesses and now you and Jim are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

4,266
posted on 08/16/2012 11:18:27 AM PDT
by fabian
(" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")

One of your references is from from 2007 and now you and Jim are calling him a liar. I think you are extremely judgmental as you simply cannot know that. You resent Romney for past weaknesses and now you and Jim are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

4,267
posted on 08/16/2012 11:18:38 AM PDT
by fabian
(" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")

90 lifetime rating from American Conservative Union. You can look up his voting record since you are SO informed of who our conservative Senators are.

You think I shouldn’t vote for him because he is a Mormon. Pathetic and sad.

People think electing a President is like electing a king around here. The biggest threat to any sane citizen of this country is the king bypassing Congress with his executive orders in the White House, completely unrestrained.

Wow, you just keep doing this sing-song repetition about religion, over and over, day after day.

I’m just happy that I got you to take down your homepage statement advertising FR as a home for stormfront people, yesterday.
Your statement to the world from your FR homepage that you are a “Proud member of the Cleanse FR of Stormfront Bigots Brigade.”

There could be a zillion pro mormon posts but then again the reaction of the typical consumer is often valid. As a constant consumer of FR Im aware of a trend to express concern about Mormonism. Its definitely not my issue.

Your post suggest a tendency to have ignored the proselytizing threads posted by mormons over the past five years, and to have centered on the rebuttals to them.

If "it's not my issue", you are making it your issue with incomplete information on the actual debate. If it's not your issue, why are you complaining about it?

Additionally, the entry of Mitt Romney into the race for POTUS in '07 and again now leads to "concern" about mormonism to match your "trend to express concern about Mormonism".

Nice to know you can mind read.
Show me once where I said you should not vote for this person I have never heard of, in a race that means nothing to me to date, for any reason whatsoever.
Show me once where I said anything about Romney being a Mormon as a reason not to vote for him, I am concerned first and foremost about his LIBERAL record. (Although, Romney’s Mormonism does not in anyway contradict his liberal record, just as a side note and a person’s belief system is important to understand who they are)
Apparently, Romney’s LIBERAL record doesn’t bother you, fine and dandy, that’s not on me.
Vote for the liberals you want, and I will vote for the conservatives I want - see we each get to vote for the candidate of our choice.

4,271
posted on 08/16/2012 11:40:14 AM PDT
by roylene
(Salvation the great Gift of Grace.)

Seriously, the best thing for your cause is to convert Romney from Mormon to whatever other Christian faith you all decide while he is in office. The daily “pray for our President” threads sure would be interesting.

Show me once where I said anything about Romney being a Mormon as a reason not to vote for him

Well, them allow me. Anybody stupid enough to swallow mormonism, in its entirety, is way to stupid to be President. I have literally hundreds of other reasons to not vote for Romney but his Mormonism is definitely one of them.

4,273
posted on 08/16/2012 11:44:57 AM PDT
by Graybeard58
(If you fear Obama, you'll vote for Romney. If you fear God, you won't.)

O is it a rule here that I have to ping the person I am critical of? Give me a break...I am on my smart phone and I did not even think of it. It is you that is doing the slamming calling our best hope in getting our nation free of this communist...a liar. Give me a break! And the double post was a mistake so just calm your mind.

4,278
posted on 08/16/2012 11:50:19 AM PDT
by fabian
(" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")

Don’t worry about it. I’m not all that interested in what clueless Romney supporters have to say about me. Romney has a 30 some odd year record of being a corrupt godless abortionist/homosexualist leftist usurping bastard and he cannot change that fact. It’s the truth of the matter. And he will not change his stripes. Statism the only thing he knows.

Discerning people do not have to be deceived by every lying politician’s every statement.

Romney is a pathological liar by nature, and he has been trained all of his life to lie, and now you want to accept that he honestly had epiphany, after epiphany, after epiphany, and totally reversed his almost 60 years of beliefs and hard fought politics, on issue after issue after issue, as he started running for president?

No one but Mitt, has ever made such a cynical, instant, superman in a phone booth like reversal, of almost ALL of his lifelong politics.

Let me be more specific. I think the last time I jumped into one of these religious forum debates, someone was there advising Roman Catholics that they should be so concerned about Mormonism and Mormons converting Catholics.

I explained that I’ve never known a RC converted to Mormonsim, but have seen plenty start attending the new evangelical christian denomination down the road. And that as a Roman Catholic I have more issue with the Protestant Reformation than with Mormonism. Because Mormonism amounts to exactly squat in most of this country (Apologies to Nevada and Utah).

Let’s be real, FR has taken on an anti Mormonism trend and there is no flood of Mormons pushing their faith here. Not saying there are not a few.

I apologize that it is fun riling up those who are especially rilable on religious matters. But yes I have to say I have learned about Mormonism from anti Mormon posters on FR. All very interesting and I love people posting whatever they like. Probably not as interesting as when we advise people who’ve sighted demons dancing in their living rooms, but still worth a glance.

As for Mormonism, I’m older than I wish and based on my whole life experience I cannot imagine worrying about Mormons. Maybe I just have lived in the wrong part of the country because to me they are a non factor.

We are supposed to see people in the moment and how they live and believe now. I believe he is sincere and you do not and need to exaggerate a bit and go back years to back up your judgement and so does Jim. Shame on you as that is what the left continually does to us...go by the past.

4,295
posted on 08/16/2012 12:05:08 PM PDT
by fabian
(" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter")

I explained that Ive never known a RC converted to Mormonsim, but have seen plenty start attending the new evangelical christian denomination down the road. And that as a Roman Catholic I have more issue with the Protestant Reformation than with Mormonism.

Wow, you would rather a Catholic convert to the non-Christian religion of Mormonism than to become a non-Catholic Christian?

Instead of preaching how another religion is evil, why not preach the benefits of yours?

Stop demonizing people.

Did you just post something about being CLUELESS???

I'm STILL waiting for Jeff to comment about the following; perhaps YOU'D like to while we are waiting...

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

4,299
posted on 08/16/2012 12:10:59 PM PDT
by Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

"You got a Supreme Court that's all Mormon, a Legislature that's practically all Mormon, an executive department headed up by a Mormon and a Republican Party that's all Mormon."

That may not be surprising for a state founded by a church theocracy and still 70% Mormon. But Leavitt's two February appointments broke a tradition that dates from 1926 of having at least one non-Mormon on the high bench. It was in 1926 that territorial judges who were elected by popular vote began to retire,

Now, from local to federal courts in Utah, members of one faith overwhelmingly rule the bench.

Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.