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I take nothing away from the splendid craftsmanship and beauty of 'Flowery Scroll' or 'Old Paper', but I can't help but feel a little disappointed at the heavy preference for 'traditional' and 'old school' submissions by the community at large.
A lot of entries were truly out of the box and (strictly IMO) deserved more attention than they got.

If we always do the same thing, we will always get the same results.
A big THANK YOU to everyone who pushed the envelope - keep coloring outside the lines!

I take nothing away from the splendid craftsmanship and beauty of 'Flowery Scroll' or 'Old Paper', but I can't help but feel a little disappointed at the heavy preference for 'traditional' and 'old school' submissions by the community at large. A lot of entries were truly out of the box and (strictly IMO) deserved more attention than they got.

I understand your argument but I think in that case it's hard to point at anyone (I am not implying that you tried to do so). I pretty much love the Tribal Compass by Elzevir because it is very artistic and original. Of course we should appreciate out-of-the-box-thinking and creative ideas about how to reinvent certain things. But on the other hand we already have a wide variety of styles that have worked in the past so why "change a running compass rose" and people want to see how old concepts can be filled with new live by using modern techniques (vector-graphics) to relize them ...
So instead of being disappointed I think you should enforce challenges that more explicitly demand out-of-the-box-thinking

(my english got a little rusty in the last couple of months. I hope my english was able to transport the message)

(my English got a little rusty in the last couple of months. I hope my English was able to transport the message)

Easy part first, you communicated well.

Originally Posted by wally-d-feed

Of course we should appreciate out-of-the-box-thinking and creative ideas about how to reinvent certain things. But on the other hand we already have a wide variety of styles that have worked in the past so why "change a running compass rose" and people want to see how old concepts can be filled with new life by using modern techniques (vector-graphics) to realize them ...

When I was in Architecture School, I worked on an Urban Infill project in a ‘historic neighborhood’ (putting a new building on a vacant lot between two old buildings). I faithfully reproduced the segmented arch windows that dominated the neighborhood to help my design blend with the character of the area. It was heavily criticized by my peers and the guest reviewer (and rightly so) for intellectual dishonesty.

I had forgotten that this is not 1890. Even if every window as far as the eye could see was an 1890 window or modern reproduction of an 1890 window, I was a Twentieth Century (then) ‘Architect’ and this was a building that needed to reflect the current ‘volksgeist’ [I can use the term since outside of urban planners, you will understand its meaning – ‘Spirit of the People’ for everyone else] not the spirit of another age.

This is not the Sixteenth Century. So we can learn from the Renaissance masters, admire their work, incorporate their techniques (and reinterpret them with modern equipment), but we have an obligation to ourselves to also reflect our age (or the age that we are trying to capture for some fantasy work). We work so hard at the Cartographers Guild to ‘age’ the paper and capture the spirit of another era, that it sometimes feels like THIS age, our own era is being short changed.

That is why I am attracted to innovation. I search for inspiration for the next millennium.

I am glad to see from your post that I did not offend you. That was not my intent. Your compass rose was a beautiful composition, rich in detail, subtle in color. A peak of modern technical excellence and fully deserving to win the silver compass.

I’d love to see a version of it that you feel would work on a plan of a floating airport or a map of the first lunar outpost or a flying city served by airships (the 1930s Future) – something to reflect ANYTHING but the Renaissance. [This is strictly 100% my personal opinion and taste.]

When I was in Architecture School, I worked on an Urban Infill project in a ‘historic neighborhood’ (putting a new building on a vacant lot between two old buildings). I faithfully reproduced the segmented arch windows that dominated the neighborhood to help my design blend with the character of the area. It was heavily criticized by my piers and the guest reviewer (and rightly so) for intellectual dishonesty.

I had forgotten that this is not 1890. Even if every window as far as the eye could see was an 1890 window or modern reproduction of an 1890 window, I was a Twentieth Century (then) ‘Architect’ and this was a building that needed to reflect the current ‘volksgeist’ [I can use the term since outside of urban planners, you will understand its meaning – ‘Spirit of the People’ for everyone else] not the spirit of another age.

This is not the Sixteenth Century. So we can learn from the Renaissance masters, admire their work, incorporate their techniques (and reinterpret them with modern equipment), but we have an obligation to ourselves to also reflect our age (or the age that we are trying to capture for some fantasy work). We work so hard at the Cartographers Guild to ‘age’ the paper and capture the spirit of another era, that it sometimes feels like THIS age, our own era is being short changed.

That is why I am attracted to innovation. I search for inspiration for the next millennium.

I see your point. Though I have to admit, that when it comes to architecture, I really love those projects, that try to integrate old into new (like for example we have an old castle in germany where they rebuilt the major tower out of glas ...http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burg_Be...8Westerwald%29).

You are talking about us at the cartographer's guild being so focused on the past and on replicating it and furthermore about yourself missing innovation and mapmaking visions for the 20(21)th century. But I think the question is in how far mapmaking as we do it is applicable for future scenarios or even for the future. If you'd want me to draw a map as I think it would be used now or in future ... a map that goes hand in hand with the volksgeist, I would just say: "I can't ... the maps you are talking about aren't created by drawing them ... the maps of the present aren't lines on paper they are maybe vectors on displays that are automatically generated by machines that use data transferred to them by GPS-sattelites or in the future they migth be 3D-Holograms which depict whole starsystems or galaxies ... I can't do that" ... Of course I've already seen maps beautifully drawn maps of galaxies or starships ... and they could definitely be the star of every SF-RPG-Book but I don't believe that those maps of galaxies or starships would really be used inside the world they depict.

Or in other words ... I think most people here don't see themselves as architects but as restorers.

I am glad to see from your post that I did not offend you. That was not my intent. Your compass rose was a beautiful composition, rich in detail, subtle in color. A peak of modern technical excellence and fully deserving to win the silver compass.

Thank you very much ... I deeply appreciate that.

I’d love to see a version of it that you feel would work on a plan of a floating airport or a map of the first lunar outpost or a flying city served by airships (the 1930s Future) – something to reflect ANYTHING but the Renaissance. [This is strictly 100% my personal opinion and taste.]

It will definitely take a while for I am in the midst of my final exams at university and also I want to point out that I don't really think that such a compass rose would really be used but ...

I think all he would need to do is change out the medallions and it would probably serve for just about anything. I would fix the splines first though. I didn't even notice it before now but a few of them are partially lost. I guess you would have to extend the lines out through the rest of the map manually (unless there's a larger version)? It's a very cool looking entry in any case.

Every time I make a compass rose I think about the image it will go on and create from that space. So it seems to me that most of the time the compass rose is built for the map. There are some that are created to be more generic and they might have greater usability. I like my compass rose for instance but it's not going to work for just any map.

I think that if you took any of these rose's and put them on the right map they would be excellent. If you were to place one of the other roses on that same map however it would look less than stellar. A few would translate well on almost any map. Your compass for instance would be perfect for a wooden fortress or a map of the wild frontier. It wouldn't be so hot on an urban city map though. Mine either for that matter.

So, while I don't disagree with you (because I always try to be a little different myself), I am not surprised by how the voting has gone. It's actually pretty much what I expected. Knowing your audience is important too. I think it's also fairly obvious that most here are Fantasy lovers and creating that direction is naturally going to garner votes. Every now and then a science fiction entry does really well but it has to be smokin because the audience is not quite as big. Personally, I love fantasy but I want to go into Sci-fi because there just isn't enough of it around in my opinion.

When I started joining in on these challenges I always went in thinking, "Man, I hope my entry doesn't suck." Being in the pack or coming in 2nd, 3rd, 4th meant I did alright, especially with the talent level around here. At first I used to sit and watch the votes clicking in but then I found that I was better off by just moving on to my next project. That way if my entry tanked I wasn't all bummed out because I was already in the middle of something better anyhow.

All that said, there are certainly those here who vote for uniqueness but it's not often that uniqueness alone wins. It still has to be awesome. Plus, we do have a number of voters who just pass through, take a quick look, and cast their votes.

I actually expected Hai-Etlik's entry to come in first place because I think it would work for a larger variety of maps as it is. I love my entry and I think it's very cool but I'm not shocked that it's not the most universal. The most important thing is that I learned a new technique when I made this and I will be able to use that from now on whenever I need it.

“When it’s over and you look in the mirror, did you do the best that you were capable of? If so, the score does not matter. But if you find that you did your best you were capable of, you will find it to your liking.” -John Wooden