Aug 7, 2011

Comment Spawns Post

Occasionally, a comment results in another post. Yesterday, my post on the Poverty Magnet received a comment from someone identifying himself as a former council member.

former councilman said...Anon 2:13 - You are right. With the current debt and baby boomers costs to medicare and social security only the middle class has enough money to pay the bill. Molovinsky writes a blog entitled "Poverty as a Growth Industry" and wants to avoid posts on taxes. He is living somewhere else. Ledebur thinks the tax cuts for the rich are to blame. He is wrong. It is Defense, Medicare and Social Security costs, current and those looming in the out years, that will bring this country to its knees.

August 6, 2011 5:42 PM

It is not apparent to me that the federal tax rates are related to the local poverty magnet, but former and current council members certainly contribute to that dilemma.. Actually, all council members, with few exceptions, are part of the problem, starting with Heydt's first term. I know that the former councilman commenting yesterday is in the problem group. The few exceptions have either passed away, or have enough accountability to comment by name. Since the Heydt era, the Community Block Grants have been used to subsidize various social agencies, which attract more poverty to the city. (Previously they were used for infrastructure) Each year the agencies and city officials meet in the council chamber. Have you ever watched the fish feed at the trout hatchery? I assume that the commenter feels that former councilman connotes expertise. I have attended too many council meetings to share that assumption.

34 comments:

"Defense, Medicare and Social Security costs, current and those looming in the out years, that will bring this country to its knees."

That may be the case with 'defense' and argumentably 'Medicare' .. but in the case of Social Security, that is entirely a different matter. Currently the Social Security funds took in $2.7 trillion more then they paid out.

These "surplus" SS funds were on loan to the general budget and it is now part of the National Debt. Is this how United States plans on treating it's lenders?

Yes, that's what SS is.. a lender. SS didn't contribute one dime to this nation's debt. It lent $2.7 trillion to the U.S. treasury. Now when it's time to pay it back they hedge on their promises. I'm not saying SS won't need to be tweaked. BUT this crap about how SS helped run the budget into the ground is just plain BS.

And we wonder why S&P lowered our rating. You can't trust Washington. SS funds were borrowed by U.S. Treasury. If the U.S. screws over it's own workers who had this taken out of their checks, doesn't exactly make the U.S. look too creditable when it comes to repaying it's other obligations.

Sorry but that 14%+ taken from workers checks over a lifetime or work WASN'T intended to become a sneaky backdoor extra 14+% earned income tax on workers. ?? OR WAS IT ??

I agree with Molovinsky that social programs are nothing more than poverty magnets. I would go a step farther--close public schools in Allentown. The affluent send there kids to Swain and the Jewish Day School. Others use the Catholic schools. As I see it only the poor use the public schools. Shut some down, charge the parents user fees and increase class sizes. this will deter folks from coming here. And need I say save the "real Allentonians" their hard earned tax money!

my initial reaction was to reject comment anon 12:46; but it illustrates why i must, unfortunately, moderate this blog. I and this blog have never advocated for real allentownians, against public schools or against poor people. Allentown always had poor people, but we also had a normal income bell curve, with middle and upper income. no community can sustain itself when the percentage of low-income totally predominates. anon 11:27, with the exception of primarily one person, the local blogosphere does have integrity. how one person could devote himself to curtailing open discussion, end so many blogs and enthusiasm by others, is a sad testimony. while many of his submitted comments are blatant hatred, others are more subtle and subversive, intended to taint this and other blogs.

Welfare is a true entitlement that never seems to be mentioned as something that should be cut. Those are the entitlements that create jealousy, hate and anger in the American people and also a distrust of those in government that insist in keeping those mostly worthless, self perpetuating, failed social programs alive. Even our once good public schools have become social experiments that have failed us miserably! Time for change!Stealth.

to what purpose gary? better you should ask the council of churches how many unemployed new residents they staked to move in money. better you should ask the county welfare workers how many calls they received from first day residents who already somehow new the menu of available entitlements. better you should ask the census bureau how uncommon it is for an entire city to go from middle class to poverty within 10 years. ask the school district how many more students qualified for a free lunch. we have some very dynamic advocates for the poor, who did their job perhaps too well.

at this point in time, the only challenge i accept is to attempt to modify the park department priorities, to preserve the WPA structures.

I take it that you decline my challenge. I assume you prefer to make claims without evidence. You have been preaching the "poverty magnet" for years. Don't you think it is time to provide some proof that it exists?

gary, i believe our forefathers coined the phrase self evident, but as i said before, as a property manager, i asked thousands of people why they moved here. you may think that people came here for the cold, or the yocco's, as dr. zahorchak said, from now on the lunches are free, unless they prove they can afford it p.s. he didn't exactly say that, it's a paraphrase

gary, yes it's easy to imply that being against a poverty magnet is being against latino's. i never said that allentown was a latino magnet. if in fact most of the latino's moving were middle class, or wealthy, we would have benefited from the transition, as miami is from wealthy south americans. the influx to allentown has been almost exclusively very low-income, very co-dependent on subsidies. because many are of the same ethnicity, nobody says anything, for fear of being labeled a racist; as per your implication. it's a cheap shot. i'll allow you to take it several times, but not endlessly

anon 12:16, let me translate gary liberal speak. if molovinsky can speak against a poverty magnet, while many of the new poor arrivals are latino, and not be a racist, then gary should be able to speak against israeli oppressive policy, and not be an anti-semite.

it's not apples and apples, but frankly i'm tired of the debate. the concept of asking for proof of a poverty magnet is particularly absurd. although $millions of dollars are spend on unproved assumptions by various levels of government and school districts, i should prove something which is oblivious. gotta love the bureaucratic mentality. maybe hire a consultant, get a grant and do a study. (but be sure to hire an out of towner to do it, with no familiarity of the history or locale)

The proposition that social programs act as a magnet to pull poor folks to an area is absurd. There is no evidence of this. Molovinsky's statement that it is "self-evident" is no help here. I for one do not think people move to a new city for Headstart, mental health services, foster children's services, outreach nursing care, energy assistance, WIC, crime victims assistance, family preservation programs, drug abuse counseling, homeless assistance, food banks, family centers, elder care services, or emergency shelters. Molovinsky's proposition is not self-evident at all.

gary, after renting center city apartments for decades, call me an expert. i can tell you that many people did indeed move here for housing assistance. as i said twice before on this post, i don't care to document the many other incentives that resulted in over 53,000 people moving here within 15 years; that's almost half the population of allentown that turned over, even though the population reached 100,000 by 1928. Fifteen years is about the time you moved away, but believe me, it's not the same city. actually, don't believe me, but i assure you most of the readers who live here do.

larger cities like NYC have always had more experience dealing with public assistance "programs".It has long been known that one of the tactics used for fighting NYC poverty has been has been to provide destitute individuals witha free bus ticket to Allentown.

gary, ironic, that my contention, which would cost nothing to implement and save money (takes less bureaucrats to hand out less money) you want proved. on the other hand, for the social and educational engineers, who spend millions of our dollars on plans implemented by hiring more administrators, you say support them

We don't provide social services to save money or attract new residents. We provide social services because mothers, children, grandparents, the mentally ill, people with disabilities, the youth we have failed in our school systems and folks who have not had your advantages need to just get through the day. This is the essence of our differences--I believe we as Americans have a duty to help our less privileged fellow citizens who are less fortunate than most. You believe that churches and the United Way are all we should do. I will now end the debate.

gary, i don't resent one dime, to one of those people. (I do not agree that our school system fails anybody) i do resent the $millions which go to those who have decided to make entitlement a way of life. i do resent when able bodied 18 year olds hire lawyers to qualify for life long disability. although you choose to ignore the fakers, and emphasize the truly needy, they are not the problem.

Anytime that you try to help folks there will be those who will try to game the system. I have neighbors, living on million dollar estates, who have their help raise two sheep or two goats in order to qualify for the farm discount on real estate taxes. Does that mean we should condemn honest farmers in the area? The fact that you resent those who game the disability system and not the tax system tells much about your values.

"This is the essence of our differences--I believe we as Americans have a duty to help our less privileged fellow citizens who are less fortunate than most."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Binzley -

You're right - WE do have that duty. The Federal GOVERNMENT, however, does not.

If an organization is doing good work in the community, let it make its case to the people and earn their support. Some do, as the Allentown Rescue Mission comes to mind.

Other organizations, however, want to line up at the government trough where no real scrutiny of results occurs. Somehow only intentions matter, and the very real question of whether the organization is part of the problem will never be asked.

I work on the main line of Philly and I have become friends, really acquaintances, with the man who owns the estate next to where I work. Let me tell you it is nice--stables, pool, five car garage and a full time gardner. One day I asked him about the 2 sheep that roam the luscious grounds. I asked him their names. He replied that one was Dollar and the other Bill. I said, why those names. He said that the county and state have discounts on taxes for farmers. His tax attorney told him to get a couple of farm animals and he could benefit greatly on his taxes. So he got the sheep and named them accordingly.

"He said that the county and state have discounts on taxes for farmers. His tax attorney told him to get a couple of farm animals and he could benefit greatly on his taxes"

You wouldn't be making that up, would you? Having only 2 animals would not be a "farm". Even a "hobbie farm that gets a tax break would require that the "farmer" would have to make a profit or intend to make a profit with raising animals. Show me the IRS rule to substantiate your story, please!