I was in a reputable vintage guitar shop last week. While talking to the owner, he told me about a Alembic bass the he acquired over 10 years ago. He explained after he checked with Alembic, 10 years ago, he discovered it was a stolen bass. He said that, the nice people at alembic informed him he bought a hot bass. It was stolen from a famous bass man we all know. And I checked the serial number and it is stolen.

The bass is a full sized series 2 with an omega cut out. The DS5 power supply no longer exists. So, I was never able to hear it. It looks and plays like a dream.

I donít know if it use batteries or not. I never looked at the guts.

The owner said he can legally sell the ďhot bassĒ because the state statute of limitations is up. The bass is currently not for sale; however, he sort of trying to sell it to me.

It breaks my heart to see a bass like this just sitting. Yet I donít want the bad Karma of owning as hot bass.

So I am wondering what the opinion of this forumís members on this subject.

I may be biased as I have been the victim of theft before, but it seems like the owner of this shop totally has no ethics. It appears that he could have facilitated the return 10 years ago, but he hid the item (not selling it) and deprived someone of their rightful property.

Lawyers can chime in here, but it seems like the owner is no friend of musicians.

Not to defend this shop owner, but he did contact Alembic. And as I understand it I was not possable to contact the owner of the bass as he is a big time pro. The shop owner said he hope to sell it back to the origional owner. He only showed me the bass cause he know how I feel about alembic bass.

1. While I am not a Washington attorney and don't know the specifics of Washington law. I would assume that the statute of limitations on the theft of the bass may have run, However, this guy didn't steal it, he's in possession of the bass. Knowing possession of stolen property is a crime in California and likely so in Washington. Of that offense he is currently guilty.

2. The legal owner of the instrument is a big time famous bass player, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get in touch for the purpose of returning the bass? I just don't find such an excuse credible.

I might consider contacting the "famous bassist", giving him a head's up on the location of his lost bass, and then let nature take its course. And I would never again refer to the store as "a reputable vintage guitar shop".

Whats the serial #? Can it be discretely located and then posted here for all to see? What kind of douchebag music store owner could do this??? I hope karma gets him. What is the name of the store so we can all harass it!!!! Just kidding, the universe will fix things eventually. People get hit by busses, grand pianos fall on them or maybe a big Acme safe like in bugs bunny etc. I just find this so wrong to hear about theivery like this.....End Rant Bear

I once bought a bass that was stolen from his rightful owner. Some thief broke into his van, removed the bass and sold it on ebay. I "purchased" it, not knowing of the theft, and picked it up in person.

When I tried to turn it over about six months later, the owner spotted the auction and accused me for being the helping hand of the thief. Boy, was I in trouble in the first place, till I could explain to the police that I was a victim.

The point I am trying to make: Gary, please contact the police and tell them about this bass. Since you know the salesman and the story, you could else be in serious legal trouble also, now that it is all public, for everybody to read.

Just to reiterate: "Reputable"? By no stretch of the imagination. Identify this scumbag, to us, to the rightful owner, and to the authorities.

"A question of ethics"? The only question is do you have them, because this festering pus-bag doesn't. There is only one proper course of action here, and it is self-evident. See above.

"Can't contact him because he's well-known"? Excuse me, but wouldn't that make him easier to find? Do it.

This needle-d*cked bug-f*cker and his ilk are, at least as much as the actual thief (which he might well be), the reason no one's instrument is safe. You have the power to put a stop to it. Are you one of the good guys, or no different than him? Man up.

I doubt that you yourself are in any legal jeopardy merely based on your knowledge. If anything were to come up, or you have any questions relevant to Washington law, contact me and I can put you in touch with some great defense lawyers in Seattle, one of whom is also a guitar player.

Guys, Franks bass is not an Omega as stated in the original post. Gary, do the right thing here. Imagine if it were yours. The owner of the store is no friend of yours or any musician. Bad Karma stains all those around it.

I thought that is why all our Alembics have serial numbers registered to us the owners..to stop this happening..for a dealer to do hold onto a registered stolen instrument is really misuse of trust and puts his reputation in jeopardy. He really needs a wake up call on this. I wonder who the anonymous 'famous bass player' is..certainly has my interest??

More than I am a bass player I am a motorcycle rider. My very first bike was stolen from me, way back in 1977. It still stings. I still want it back. There is no statute of limitations, as far as I am concerned.

I bought a fretless guitar from a shop in the UK called Cash Converters about 8 years ago and soon after that I contacted the manufacturer of the guitar with the serial number to get some history on it. I got a brisk email back telling me that the guitar belonged to the company and that it was had been "lent" to a guitarist in a very big international rock band here in the UK and that I must send it back to him.

I contacted the police about this and was told that since I bought it legitimately and paid a good price for it as a used instrument, I should advise the manufacturer that if they felt it was theirs then they should take steps to persue it through the legal process.

I wrote back and never heard any more from the company, and I still have the guitar.

Alembic's stolen instrument list only has two SII instruments. JJ's fiver and 89-5429. There may be others, but I would think they would be listed if they were known to Alembic as stolen.

I don't know what the legalities are with regard to ownership once an instrument is stolen. If an insurance company pays off, do they become the rightful owners? If the statute has run out, that may eliminate the law's interest in the person as a criminal, but does it mean that he can now keep the instrument?

Of course, if the story is accurate, the ethics are clear. I doubt anyone can speak highly of someone who would receive stolen property and conceal it until it was safe to move. Isn't that the definition of a "fence"?

On the other hand, the ethical alternative isn't exactly fair. If he bought the bass at a fair price in good faith, he shouldn't have to eat that entire cost and hand it over. One would hope someone's insurance policy would provide relief. If, however, he bought the bass at a super low price and should have known something was fishy, then that just adds to the condemnation of the proprietor's ethics.

The hardest thing to believe in this whole story is that he told Alembic he had the bass ten years ago and he still has it today. I would have expected Alembic to jump all over such a report and inform the rightful owner. It's not out of the question that this happened and the rightful owner preferred the insurance payout to chasing down the instrument. Another ethical question there as well...

I know that if my guitar was stolen I would never forget it, and I would never stop considering to be my guitar. I also feel sorry for anyone who innocently purchases a stolen instrument, as they are the ultimate victim of the thief's lack of integrity, if the owner is found. I would hope that a business could write of such an expense as a loss, but I don't know if it is the case.

Gary - please email me the serial number/name of the store so I can get the bass in the right hands.

Stolen instrument recovery is truly one of the best parts of my job. I love reuniting a bass with its long lost owner. Sometimes, it does get tricky, especially after a long time has passed.

I've had to start thinking about what we need to do on our stolen instrument roster. What happens after the statute of limitations is over? Should it still be considered stolen? Well, of course I consider it stolen until it's returned to its rightful owner, but the police don't always see it that way.

I also have empathy for those innocents that wind up buying something and then discover it was stolen. What a horrible, awful feeling that must be. It's hard to have pity for someone that waits out a legal statute knowingly. The story in the original post doesn't ring a bell.

Recently, the location of a stolen bass was reported to me, but the owner's phone number does not accept incoming calls. I sent a letter to the address we had - he no longer lives there and there is no forwarding. He's changed jobs, so I've asked his former co-workers to try and reach him on my behalf. The police are trying to assist, and I have a good and dedicated detective working to help, but it seems it was never reported stolen to the police, so there is only so much she can do (but she's trying to locate the owner (there are bass players everywhere, even police detectives)). This is very frustrating! This is not the bass referred to in the original post.

I'm thinking to add the date stolen to the roster, and write about how even if an instrument can legally be traded after a certain period of time after it was stolen, it's still a part of that instrument's history, and the owner it was stolen from probably still wants it back. Good deeds are rewarded!

"He explained after he checked with Alembic, 10 years ago, he discovered it was a stolen bass. He said that, the nice people at alembic informed him he bought a hot bass."

I have a feeling the above "story" is complete BS....

Put yourself in the victim's shoes, Gary. First, I wouldn't have posted the details.... I'd have contacted Mica via phone right away. Second, I'd have tried to put a cash deposit on the instrument if honestly "however, he sort of trying to sell it to me. " Just so that it doesn't "disappear" into the netherworld again....

If I was in the original owner's shoes, I'd hope that the members of this wonderful community would do the same for me....

PS: Lembic76-450 said "I sure hope that it isn't Jimmy Johnson's 1st 5 string." I actually hope that it IS JJ's bass! That would be one of the greatest reunions that the f-clef has ever seen!!!!!

You have all jumped to a dangerous conclusion. As I understand this; the police notified the store owner he bought a hot bass.

In the state of Washington, pawn shops and guitar shops must register the serial number of the items they purchase. The item then can not be sold for 3 months. So it was the police that notified the store owner he was ripped off. The police were never able to contact the person who reported the bass stolen.

So, as I understand this, the store owner was as much a victim, as the man who was originally ripped off. The shop owner was stuck with a bass he can not sell. He was forced to eat the loss and warehoused the bass.

He moved the shop recently and found the bass hidden back in a corner, it has sat there for 10 years.

The store owner who has never been to the Alembic Web site did call and talk to, as he said, "a very nice young lady". Who informed him who the bass originally belonged to.

"So it was the police that notified the store owner he was ripped off. The police were never able to contact the person who reported the bass stolen." That wasn't mentioned in the 1st post. So am I to understand since the police could'nt contact the person that reported the theft, the police could not conficate the stolen property. Very Cconvienent! Smells A Little! Not sure about how police conduct thefts there....but most eveywhere the item would have been confiscated from pawn shop/store as evidence etc... quote "As I understand this the police notified the store owner he bought a hot bass." As for pawns the ticket holder usually has 90 days to pay the pawn amount and reeem the item and after 90 days the item can be sold! . .. ....... "guitar shops must register the serial number of the items they purchase. The item then can not be sold for 3 months." ...... I believe that only applies to pawn shops ..a little more BS. (ok I could be wrong here,but it dont make sence) I've bought many guitars taken on trade within days. Its a bass guitar, not a fire arm! If he contacted Alembic and was told it was stolen just futher goes to show his true caracter and his lame excuse "could'nt locate owner" Smells a lot fishy now! In any part ...if the store owner knew even after the fact.... I just don't buy that he stored it aways for ten years and forgot about it and mysteriously found it ten years later! As was previously stated..this "famous" picker could have easlily been located...The story stinks.... Joey, thanks for doing the right thing! Won't it feel great to have helped reunite the original owner with his child Vintage shops are notorious for huge mark up! This shop owner may be the victim of his own greed. just my thoughts Steve

Mike (Joey not) thanks for doing the right thing and reporting to Mica! And Gary for bringing this to attention. I'm sure it will feel great to have helped reunite the original owner with his child. Imagine how he will feel! Being the victim of a stolen bass I can not help but be bias. I do believe the board has spoken. A snake in the grass is hard to see til you get bit! Vintage shops are notorious for huge mark up! Not that there's anything wrong with that...it'a a business! This shop owner may have become the victim of his own greed.... or could there possibly be a sliver of truth to the story..who knows....sometimes its easy to jump on the band wagon or get rail roaded! The most important thing is the reunite! just my thoughts Steve

I'm working on this - talking to everyone involved. There's lots to it, and at this point from my interactions I don't think there is any intentional wrongdoing here. Maybe I'll have it all figured out in the next couple of days and I hope to report a happy ending for everyone.

I work in a pawnshop, and we have hoops to jump through, which is fine and appropriate...thankfully we don't have to deal with the cops very often, but it is amazing how different departments don't talk to each other, or different cities don't coordinate...I know that if they can't find the owner here of stolen stuff, it ends up in the police auction, so I guess it's a bonus if the owner/victim has moved...and things get lost/forgotten in pawnshops; not usually 10 years, but it would depend on the size and age, and # of staff at the shop...if it's been around forever, stuff gets forgotten in corners...like any warehouse... I'm not trying to whitewash here, just pointing out how it could be...Tony.

Many places make you do an annual inventory and pay taxes on whatever you're holding at the first of the year. One would think an instrument that should be on the books for a couple thousand at least would have a hard time slipping through the cracks. It would have to be one very large and casually operated business for an item of that value to go missing without notice.

If the deal was above-board, it would also be one of the most valuable instruments in the store, and possibly one of the most unusual and attractive. Wouldn't it be an item to be shown off? An item that a shop owner would want customers to see? An item to be moved to recover all that capital and make a fair profit? If I had a shop, that bass wouldn't spend a minute longer in a back room than required by any local holding laws.

No- more like some good news that an owner was reconnected with a stolen instrument after 10+ years. Don't really care much one way or the other about a dealer 3000 miles away. Hang or reward him as you see fit. I figured that Mica getting involved two weeks ago should have had things moved well along by now. Maybe not.

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is here. If Mica says she's got things under control, I'm sure that everything is being done that is possible. I'd like to see this guy get his bass back also, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, and after ten years a few days (or even a few weeks) aren't really going to make that much difference. Patience is the only course of action here until Mica decides to share more information.

On a totally random note, I've been cleaning out a big pile of old guitar magazines this week and happened to see an old Gibson ad with a bunch of sunburst Les Pauls (it was the collection of Gary Richrath who used to play in REO Speedwagon, so you can get a sense of how old the pile I'm digging in is). This got me reminiscing on Google about famous Les Pauls, and eventually I looked up the famous Peter Green/Gary Moore "unburst" which is a cherry sunburst that's faded to amber.

I mean no disrespect for the late Gary Moore, but it's interesting to see that a similar situation has popped up here with two famous guitarists.

The reason I mention it on this thread is the quote in the middle from the (famously unethical) Ed Roman, which sure seems closely tied to this thread. I'm sure it's random, but reflective of a dealer mentality that time makes these problems go away.

Wow, I didn't know Ed was a legal expert too! The man never ceases to amaze me! How did his store ever go out of business?

And as for Montrose, according to the story he drills a hole in every one of his guitars! The man almost deserves to lose it! And PLEASE, don't anyone sell him an Alembic for his next excavation project.

And a third famous guitartist, David. One of the players you mention (I'm not familiar with libel law, so I won't say which) received his first & most famous '59 LP from the teacher of a freind of mine just before his first national tour, with the promise of payment after. 10 years later he had not paid, and was denying the deal existed.

Perhaps Mr. Roman's store went out of business because he sold it to people to similar to him. You know, birds of a feather. There is an old salesman(person) joke is that a salesman(person) loves to sell to another saleman(person). I will say that I have had some decent dealings with Ed, although I felt compelled to buy the Alembic Triple Omega as I sensed he was no longer selling new Alembics. Sure enough, not only did he stop selling new ones, but he sort of bashed them in comparison to Dingwalls. What really happened was he made more money from selling Dingwalls. I contacted Mica about Ed's decision to stop repping Alembic new instrumens, and she did not know abot it at that time. Oh well!

hum......It appears after reading some of Eds rant he didn't actualy knock Alembics but more of Alembics marketing which by the way is similar to how I market in my construction business! I always give the customer many options with a published cost. I think Alembics marketing monthly specials are unique and it apparently works for them quite well! If you have to wait a spell because of backlog orders why cahnge if it works.