Lynne Soraya

Empathy, Mindblindness, and Theory of Mind

Do people with autism truly lack empathy?

In a 2001 research paper, Simon Baron-Cohen describes Theory of Mind as "...being able to infer the full range of mental states (beliefs, desires, intentions, imagination, emotions, etc.) that cause action. In brief, having a theory of mind is to be able to reflect on the contents of one's own and other's minds."

For many of those with autism or Asperger's, mindblindness, or lack of Theory of Mind creates major barriers to communication and closeness. These barriers often lead to those nearest to the individual feel, whether real or perceived, a lack of empathy from the individual.

When I think of Theory of Mind, I think of an amusing, but of course very inaccurate, belief I harbored as a young child. While playing games like hide and seek, I used to think, "If I can't see them, they can't see me." Of course, I learned very quickly that that was not the case. However, the mindblindness of individuals with autism or Asperger's can be similar - "If I can't/don't feel it or perceive it, then they can't/don't feel it or perceive it" (or vice versa).

Take the following example typically used to test children's Theory of Mind skills:

Someone who has a full grasp of Theory of Mind will immediately know that Sally will look where she last left the ball. She does not know that the ball has been moved. A person with poor Theory of Mind skills will believe that Sally will look for the ball in the box, because they do not fully grasp that Sally will not know what Ann has done.

Exploring possible causes, I begin to wonder - is it possible that the mindblindness is partially due to the differences between autistic and non-autistic thought processes? Could it be that people with autism/Asperger's are less mindblind with others like themselves? I don't know, but it seems logical to me. I know that I feel more at ease, more "on the same wavelength" with others like me.

So, here it comes - the "E" word - empathy. On the wall in one of my childhood classrooms was a copy of Norman Rockwell's painting, "The Golden Rule." I recall staring at those words, day after day as we lined up in the doorway - "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." It sank in.

From a young age, I incorporated that axiom into my belief structure. But here's where the problem comes in - what I would want "done unto me" is entirely different than what another might want. Likewise, "Putting myself in the other person's shoes" would have me doing something very different than what another person might envision doing in a similar situation. So, the logic is faulty.

The reality of the matter is that all people are different in their needs, and even "normal" (or as we prefer to call them, neurotypical) people seem to struggle to comprehend all of these differences. So, where's the line between "normal" struggling, and "mindblindness?"

All this difficulty in understanding the thoughts and reactions of others lead many to say that people with autism or Asperger's lack empathy. But, is this really true? Is it really a lack of empathy, or a lack of understanding?

I consider myself a very soft hearted person. When a character in a movie or television show is embarrassed, I feel embarrassed for them. When around someone who is crying, or in deep emotional pain, I often feel like crying with them, comforting them. Many people with autism and Asperger's are very close to their pets, and are very nurturing and empathetic toward them.

Could it be that the belief that autistic people lack empathy is really a lack of understanding of what people with autism and Asperger's understand about others' state of mind?

Zosia Zaks' article, "Myth: Autistic people lack empathy", explores this question, using the movie "Rain Man" as an example. The typical interpretation of the movie has the autistic character, Raymond, doing things that could be characterized as lacking empathy. But Zaks' article turns this interpretation on its head, wondering if, perhaps, it's not Raymond who's lacking the empathy, but the non-autistic character, Charlie.

In her article "Who cares? Or: The Truth about Empathy in Individuals of the Autism Spectrum," researcher Isabel Dziobek outlines her study on the subject of empathy. Through the course of the study, more than 50 subjects on the spectrum were evaluated against neurotypical control subjects. The results? To quote Ms. Dziobek - "More generally speaking, our data shows that people with Asperger syndrome have a reduced ability to read other peoples' social cues (such as facial expressions or body language) but once aware of another's circumstances or feelings, they will have the same degree of compassion as anyone else."

As a woman who was assessed late in life with AS, I too question very profoundly this presumption that people with AS do not have feelings and empathy.

You give as an example, all the self-help relationship gurus, books and courses. Either that points to a very widespread difficulty amongst NTs in understanding others' feelings and motivations, or it means that many more of us are on the autistic spectrum!

Actually, I think the truth lies in between: AS particularly is just being recognised as a neurological mode that affects many more people than had previously been understood (Baron-Cohen's own Autism Centre research suggested 1:58 unofficially last year. I believe it's actually much higher than that). All the same, it's apparently not autistic people who start wars, see images of abused children every night on tv and do nothing, or walk past injured people in the street. In other words, it's not them and us, it's all of us who have difficulties to some degree or other with relating and empathy.

On a personal note, during a recent very debilitating illness I've experienced at first hand how extremely callous NT people can be on a routine basis. My access to treament and care seemed to be far more dependent on my ability to sweettalk people than on my actual medical needs. I've been routinely bullied and taken advantage of even by professionals and 'carers'. When I was in the hospital I saw autism specialists treating a physically poorly low functioning autistic man with the most appalling patronisation and even cruelty.

There's something else going on here. It's all too easy for people who believe themselves to be 'normal' to cast neurologically different people in this 'unempathic' light. I rather think that there's quite a deal of projection and scapegoating going on.

Most on the autistic spectrum (myself included, despite my 98%ile IQ) are naive about the social and other games that a large portion of the population plays. We are literal, we do take things at face value, we're mostly scrupulously honest. We're easy to con. Instead of counting these attributes as 'symptoms' and pathological, why are they not lauded and held up as characteristics to be emulated? Despite so much intellectual ability life is simple, straightforward and honest for us. Isn't this what many many people say they want?! A simpler, honest life?!

As to this 'mindblindness', I have a very full and deeply felt range of emotions- it just takes me a little while to interpret and label what they are. The psychologist explained that this was due to reduced connections, a minimised corpus callosum, between the right and left hemispheres. If it takes me a while to work out my own feelings, then of course it's going to take me a commensurate time to work out others' feelings and motivations. I just cannot play the devious games that a large portion of the population seems to thrive on. Tell me, in a real fix, who would you prefer to have on your side? Someone who has a propensity to being two-faced and manipulative or someone who is upfront, honest to the core?

But these are simplistic ways of putting it. Understanding of AS, even amongst those who consider themselves to be experts, is rudimentary and very much in its infancy. It's my belief that we're going to find that some day AS brains will be credited with some and even many of the world's greatest achievements. Now that experts are beginning to attribute autistic traits to such as Einstein, Mozart, Dickinson, Austen, Jefferson, Thoreau, Spielberg, Gore et al I think we're going to have to revisit just what it is that bugs us about smart, naive, honest, straightforward folks who mostly see the world and think very differently from the majority.

Nice words, Very Nice.
I have just broken the grip of Narcassism from my 21 year old son, that he got from his mother despite my best efforts. Autistic people are beautiful to be around.let me tell everyone.

In fact I would go as far as to say this .
"Whenever you can in life, spend as much time as you can with Autistic people, Little kids and The Elderly."
Your life will be richer for it and it will help anyone develop fine empathy.Empathy that will absolutely get them the best out of everything they ever do.

I have been writing down some of my thoughts lately and think I might have a book or something in me. I've written so many pages.
Sorry back to the point. I think I might be real close to having a way to explain Empathy in a way that can be easily taught.
Initially I was thinking save the world. But only for a second. Then I tried to think of practical applications for it in things I had come across during years of Fostering, and that was Autism. Also having a baby girl 20 years ago with placenta previa, couldnt bother looking up spelling. I read lots. She's fine and studying Business and Law and doing well in case your're interested.
I wouldn't mind talking to any professionals that might find it useful to them.
I do rave on when I haven't had a chat for a while with someone.
Regards Dave

Picking up this thread again may be of interest. Lou stated:You give as an example, all the self-help relationship gurus, books and courses. Either that points to a very widespread difficulty amongst NTs in understanding others' feelings and motivations, or it means that many more of us are on the autistic spectrum.

Lou 2008 believes that reading self-help books is an indication that NT's are also lacking in their development. True to a point -NT's are born without a genetic impairment. Our 'impairment' is being born into a family/society where people are learning the fundamentals of life and we are thrust into self education as we grow and learn that stealing, physical abuse, over-eating, judging others etc are incorrect strategies for a healthy mental and physical life. Unfortunately our loved Aspies have been born without the ability to analyse. I keep reading from Aspies that they do feel empathy, but obviously it is different to what a NT would understand. If they do feel empathy, how could my husband watch me drive myself to emergency with chest pains. Is it the intensity of each 'impairment' that regulates how much one can over-ride the other and allow someone to do this (and worse).
My husband would have been in his comfortable chair watching his daily dose of tv while my car was negotiating the driveway, so in this case, his over-riding passion (tv) would have won hands down. When falling and twisting an ankle, he has also looked up from his newspaper (another over-riding passion) and merely put his head back in his newspaper. My admonishment had a different reaction three days later when the exact same thing occurred. This time he jumped up and asked if I was ok.(Learnt response, not empathy!)
Following rituals, having time to follow special interests and being regimented are very strong Aspie characteristics. My theory is these, if followed, keep them 'sane' in a confusing world. Empathy, on the other hand, isn't tangible. It is an emotion and, like trust, isn't understood. At this moment, I still believe it doesn't exist. But I'm open to suggestions and am hopeful that it does because it would certainly give me more peace of mind to have it explained.

My husband has high functioning autism. Two PhD’s, etc.
when I read about people with autism defend that they have strong emotions & empathy. In their minds, they do. To various degrees, they just don’t show it when needed. For example, I fell in the shower one time. I was on my back & the water was getting cold as I yelled for help. My husband came in & sat me up while talking about the weather. One of his special interest. Did not turn off the water or put a towel around me, or show concern that I could be hurt or cold. Just kept rambling on about the weather forecast.
Another time, I was weeping about something terrible that had happened to our son. My husband just sat next to me in bed eyes fixated on his game. No arm around me, no kiss on the forehead, no reassurance, no Kleenex offered. This is hurt on top of hurting! He looked over at me & said, are you done? I can’t hear my game.
But in public, he practices every manner. At work, he acts professionally, at home, I get his worst aspie traits! :(
So sad that the things that would cost him nothing are the things he doesn’t give.

I was diagnosed late (at 33) with having Bipolar episodes that included NOS hallucinations. Couple that with chronic PTSD and there are all kinds of labels I have been given...In those early years I became a little OCD in my understanding Autism (it never really left me). Eleven years later I still read and write and spend time with it...

You are spot on with your insights and I am hoping you will give me your opinion on these things I wrote about last year...

Monday, August 29, 2011

10:11am

By Pamela J. Wood

Sensory Integration Disorder

Because the psychological industry hasn’t ever acknowledged this as a specific disorder and prominent doctors have relabeled this (former) name and changed its symptoms in several different ways, I am going to utilize this unadopted and abandoned disorder for myself to describe a new subset/cluster of symptoms to be examined by NIMH. It is my hope it will be added to the DSM-V, which is now being updated and soon to be published (2013).

To understand the following is to explore the SID affected individual (as I have conceptualized it) and to become more acclimated with the knowledge that it is a world of the very extreme for those afflicted. These are symptoms that are never really given much merit and mostly remain documented as “NOS”—not otherwise specified--among all the classic (and newly branded) major mental illnesses.

This particular disorder can very definitely be secondary in those afflicted with schizophrenia, bipolar, autism, aspbergers, OCD, PTSD, and others within the “chronically mentally ill” catalog. It is my hope that it will be viewed in the very near future as a novel diagnosis in and of itself and stand alone. SID could also be independent--and with the proper literature being written--be presented quickly for peer approval and integration without the debilitating labels the major mental illnesses possess in today’s society.

We now have an opportunity for a better “unique symptoms” definition by diagnosing SID, thereby creating a new category for criteria in adults and possibly in the future for children.

Symptoms:

Integration is skewed and the mental capacity to filter sensory input is damaged; light, sound, taste, smell and touch are intensified exponentially. One, some or all senses are heightened and increased, causing abrupt and potentially dangerous physiological--and subsequently--erratic behavior-responses in these people. They are very many times in a near-constant state of “fight or flight”. Other times their levels of awareness are sharply increased and focus is tuned to the point of hypersensitive, giving them the ability to experience anticipatory responses from a hundred different directions.

They may also have an intellectual sensitivity to sequences of numbers, words, colors and shapes and have an incredibly visceral response to arts and music, environment and emotion.

They constantly absorb all incoming sensory information and they are overwhelmed. SID can explain the gaps of how one illness can lead to a plethora of subdisorders. Those that experience this respond in the range of everything of being afflicted with catatonic states of non-relating and emotional dysfunction (Autism), to potentially explosive and aggressive outbursts (psychotic episode as a result of manic overload).

Examples:

What you would perceive in a supermarket’s fluorescent lighting as being “brighter”, is actually blinding to them. A door banging closed behind you, sounds like a gunshot going off next to their heads to them. They can be repelled by the taste of the soil vegetables were grown in, where you would never notice. A perfume or familiar scent can instantly split their minds into shards and fragments of memory to the point of distraction. There can also be the sense of smelling things so intensely, that it appears to normal people to be a hallucination. (Schizophrenia, PTSD) For those with SID, even the lightest touch is--for many of them—painful (Autism), for others it creates an almost sexual response that can be disconcerting, uninvited and embarrassing, or worse, they respond with solicitous behavior. Still even more react with a very over-emphasized startle reflex (touch, sound, quick movement) and are never able to not react that way. Binding clothes or shoes are impossible for any length of time. (Fibromyalga, Bipolar)

Deeply layered music or colors take on a whole new dimension for these individuals. They can be both enthralled and entranced or menaced and agitated (Autism, Aspbergers). They can sit in wild-eyed wonder staring at what others don’t perceive at all, or they can run away or potentially attack at their perceived offender.

Shapes and patterns can have the same effects. (Schizophrenia, Autism, Aspbergers)

These are just some examples of what it is like for the SID afflicted. Regardless of the main diagnosis, this disorder would better describe these particular symptoms that seem to infiltrate all major mental illnesses.

The science community tends to identify these sensitivities with the caveat of being the NOS symptoms of the original diagnosis in whatever mental illness is prevalent. The descriptors of the main major mental illnesses have no explanation why these symptoms appear, yet they are across the gamut of diagnoses.

This disorder would bridge that gap and needs to be created. Especially when all the senses of an individual are impacted and they are constantly coping with triggers and the intensities of input of the external and internal world, and nothing else can be accomplished in any given day. That would be an example of a SID diagnosis just plainly, by itself. SID is debilitating in its own respect, never mind dealing with the symptoms of one or more serious mental illnesses. However, in my view, new therapies can be invented and transferred from across various other treatments.

Extra Sensory Perception:

There is no quantifiable study or diagnostic tool/test available (as of yet) to discover how these individuals process extra sensory perceptions. They possess the ability to anticipate and respond to an event before it happens. SID people are also able to--at times--(apparently more so when stressed or overstimulated) to send/receive transmissions via mental telepathy, hear frequencies others do not, get “messages” or instant downloads of information that they haven’t ever read about or studied. They see things that others say “are not there”, and feel/sense the internal emotions/thoughts of others that are denied to exist (but really ARE actually there when the “normal” subject person is pressed further about it). They see/sense patterns in big picture/small picture events that can be incredibly overwhelming and frightening to them. (Schizophrenia, Bipolar, Autism, Aspbergers)

In Conclusion:

It is by and through this disorder and the construction of SID, that it can further describe and conjunct other illnesses. By diagnosing SID, it is understanding and exampled by the manic depressive that becomes agoraphobic (or very nearly so) with intense anxiety/panic attacks when they do actually leave their safe places, or the schizophrenic that descends into being paranoid--at times delusionally so--and not safe to themselves or others.

Sensory Integration Disorder stands alone and/or bridges multiple diagnoses. Without it, the major mental illnesses in and of themselves are inadequate for explanation in these additional symptoms. “Not Otherwise Specified”--NOS--becomes “Sensory Integration Disorder” –SID--in a majority of cases.

You say: "On a personal note, during a recent very debilitating illness I've experienced at first hand how extremely callous NT people can be on a routine basis. My access to treament and care seemed to be far more dependent on my ability to sweettalk people than on my actual medical needs. I've been routinely bullied and taken advantage of even by professionals and 'carers'. When I was in the hospital I saw autism specialists treating a physically poorly low functioning autistic man with the most appalling patronisation and even cruelty. "

What makes you think that these people were NT? Maybe they werent, or not all of them. Tony Attwood (on youtube: Could it be Asperger) says that it is medical professions that rank first on Asperger personality type (Broader Phenotype of Autism), ahead of accountants, IT people and engineers.

You had asked why the qualities of people on the spectrum aren't valued more and had mentioned that honesty is better than manipulative tendencies, for example.

The whole of autism is seen through NT eyes. Think about autism spectrum disorders for a moment. What are they known for? Social awkwardness is one of the first things that comes to mind. But, awkward to whom? NTs are made uncomfortable by people on the spectrum. People on the spectrum would have every right to make the argument that NTs make them uncomfortable by expecting that they make overly emotive facial expressions, bodily movements, and vocal tones that aren't natural to them, to evade honesty and beat around the bush, all while attempting to dissect social manipulations being thrown their way. Compared to all of that, being "socially awkward" is nothing. But, this isn't about what's fair, it's about who the majority is. NTs are the majority, so in a social respect, they decide what's "right." It's not right in the moral sense, it's "right" in the sense that it's decided as a norm in a social venue. That's all.

I, for one, value honesty over social manipulativeness and dishonesty. For me, that's not even a question. My grandmother was actually an extremely frank person. She inadvertently offended a lot of people over the years. But you never worried where you stood with her, you never worried about ulterior motives or lies. It was pure and honest and simple. Other people's evasiveness, dishonesty, manipulations, and ulterior motives hurt me more than anything "frank" she ever said to me. And, really, if I was hurt by something true, isn't that saying something? Isn't that saying that I have something to go deal with in myself? Evading that doesn't mean the problem goes away. Maybe that's why we're at this point now where everybody's afraid to say anything to anybody else for fear of offending them? If people were honest with each other enough to learn that feeling a bit raw when someone's honest with you is a red flag and something to take care of, maybe people would actually deal with their issues instead of filling the world with eggshells for us all to walk on... :/

"If the population in general is so good at mind reading, why do people need so much coaching to meet each others' needs?" This is a point I've been making for some time. We see all around us "normal" people making serious errors in understanding others, including the rarely-met expectation that your significant other or a friend will understand what you want or what you mean without your having to spell it out.

Articles like this are sorely needed in providing a more nuanced look at what people on the spectrum understand, and showing how very little different from the norm that can be.

I think it comes down to being able to simultaneouly consider others' possible thoughts/feelings (reactions) to our own.
It is the equivalent of "social chess" -tact, diplomacy, street smarts, self preservation also.

I do not believe it has to do with being particularly insightful or correct in understanding others. It has to do rather with being able to socially multi task, as opposed to being focussed purely upon one's own feelings and perspective.

I also think that those who have any autistic traits of mindblindness can definetly demonstrate a lack of empathy, if just in their focus upon being right rather than upon being kind ...and being kind is in fact being right on a higher level, on a level that includes a difference in perspective.

I also think that the socially savvy, yet narcissistic bully types have a lack of empathy that mirrors that autistic type. They tend to take advantage and use the autistic types as pawns in their social chess game. They have "breadth" but do not have "depth"; or they can plan ahead a step or two and naturally bother to predict others intentions or potential reactions, however, they don't have much emotional depth. They don't care much.

I have a sister who is like this and I was preyed upon as a young adult by a manager who was like this. These types view a person like me solely in the most unflattering light -they assume that because they socially plan ahead that the aspie is somehow purely callous when in fact the aspie has more integrity even if they are socially inept and hyper egocentric.

There's only one mental disease that causes a lessening or complete retardation of emotion and that's depression. And you have no sign of that,your column continues to fascinate me. sincerely David Petropoulos

I think that's a key point, David. AS is NOT a mental disease. It's actually a different brain wiring. It's not a pathology. In fact, I am quite interested that the subject of AS has found a home, generally speaking, within the psychology community. Isn't this a physiological difference we're talking about?

Having thought much about my own brain functioning since the assessment, I have come to a working understanding that conventional psychological tools and techniques are not really that appropriate. I looked again at the Sally/Ann example. I believe there's a big flaw in this methodology. Psychologists have everywhere latched onto this 'mindblindness' and have proclaimed it as The Problem with us AS people.

Faced with this set of sequential pictures - a conventional psychological test format - I am almost blinded. Too much information, too much 'snow', too much having to keep information in my working memory in a way that the psychologist choses. Under the pressure of test circumstances, I would say anything to make it stop! In other words, this sort of test proves what the tester wants it to prove. For the most part, it simply shows that my brain does not work like an NT's. I don't believe it demonstrates mindblindness or pathology

Left to my own devices and neurological processes, I know I'd come up with the correct interpretation. I know my brain well enough by now to understand that it skips around such sequences and gets sidetracked by other incoming data (the overwhelming smell of the psychologist's perfume...the buzzing of the room heater...the watermark on the test paper...Ann's shiny earrings...Sally's postbox mouth...). And this is the crucial point: AS brains do not work like NT brains. Why use NT orientated tests on them then?! It's just like using US culturally specific IQ tests on New Guinea tribespeople! The only possible utility would be to demonstrate how 'deficient' a New Guinea person's thinking skills are.

I believe my late husband had Asperger's. He was diagnosed as bipolar shortly before he died, but it didn't fit for a lot of reasons.

He learned how to get by in life. I'm sure that is why he wasn't diagnosed. But he couldn't learn empathy. He could learn the actions and the behavior of others in similar situations, but he didn't understand what was behind them. Maybe he did understand that other people had thoughts and feelings that were different from his, but the connection between him and those other thoughts and feelings was missing.

He learned how to be in a relationship just as he learned how to have a conversation. Yes, eventually after he and I had many arguments, he figured out that conversation wasn't a monologue and that he needed to let others speak. But he had no interest in what others had to say. He was only waiting for others to shut up so he could pick up from where he left off.

In same way, he simulated the actions of somone in a relationship, but it wasn't reciprocal. I'm sure he felt and experienced love. But it was a selfish kind of love--on his terms, his time frame, with what he was able to give. The consideration for other's needs or feelings beyond what he experienced did not exist for him.

It's my belief that Asperger's and austim is not just another way of being. it's robs people of the ability to truly and fully experience humanity.

However, it seems like he may have been a narcissist, the heir of a pathological personality, not someone with AS.

How someone behaves depends on their brain wiring, their upbringing, and life experiences. Narcissism is a disorder of the personality, often influenced by how one is raised; Unlike those with AS, Narcissists can be very socially adept, even manipulative. Wielding a formidable lack of empathy, narcissists are able to use and abuse others.

Nevertheless, this lack of empathy is the hallmark of narcissism. Those with AS do not necessarily lack empathy, they merely think on a different level than "normal" people.

Regarding Simon Baron-Cohen's description of the autistic spectrum in terms of systematizer/empathizer measure- it seems more of a classification of symptoms rather than a theory that explains misbehavior. I am not a psychologist, however I am dismayed that there is so much controversy over the problem of childhood behavior disorders. Maybe an alternative measure, between rationality and (perhaps call it) conditionality, might provide better insight into the nature of disorder and how people react to it.

Nowadays public schools emphasize teaching students to think, rather than rote learning. They stress rational methods, to the extent that a successful person is brought up to automatically define the opposite of rationality as irrationality. For example, well-educated people frequently negotiate behavior with their children. They do so because they believe it is never too early to teach rationality. They offer choices, count to three, and explain the reasons why the child should behave. Many kids have an instinct for reason, and respond very well to that kind of upbringing.

I think a conditional child understands the world and other people in terms of people's habits, not their thoughts. Their world is mainly one of stimulus and response, which is why nagging is a reinforcement to them. Their behavior is the stimulus, and the parent's reminders are the response. They act immature because an infant's viewpoint is entirely conditioning. I suggest parents ought to focus on their habits, train them towards self-control and save the explanations until they are older.

The constant argument between disciplinarians and proponents of diagnosis is self-defeating for our society, and especially so for families. Parents often write, "behavior therapy did not work". Positive behavior support is the prevailing method, and many excellent reasons exist for following it. My hope is that parents who recognize conditionality in a child will have the reason they require to follow methods with more structure and less thinking.

I'm a bit nervous about saying this, but, as a person with Aspberger's who works with two other aspies, in my experience I actually have more problems dealing with my two aspie coworkers then the other staff.

My NT coworkers are much faster at figuring out when I'm stressed, annoyed, or not interested. I also find them much easier to read, though to be fair I've spent a lot of time studying body language.

The NT co-workers also, after having been informed of my difficulties, tend to be more supportive. This isn't necessarily evidence of insensitivity though - if I am feeling stressed by something, there's a decent chance that the other aspies are also feeling stressed and so are less able to deal with others.

I am often bothered by the fact that in this generation, conditions such as ADHD, Asperger Syndrome, and even Bipolar Disorder seem to be indiscriminately assigned to people without any regard to: a. situational impacts, or b. neurodiversity WITHIN people. Why can't the psychiatric industry just reconcile with the fact that some people have differing perceptions of things, and differing ways of solving problems. Not everything fits neatly into a categorical distinction, and I can honestly attest from my experience as a clinician that many of the individuals I have seen who were diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome really had no autistic component to their diagnosis - THEY WERE JUST DIFFERENT!! In my professional opinion, I really think there shouldn't be a distinction between Asperger Syndrome and High-Functioning Autism. Furthermore, based on this premise, someone CANNOT have Asperger Syndrome unless they have the pronounced neurocognitive or behavioral deviations associated with Autism. Additionally, there are plenty of things out there that can RESEMBLE autism, but are not necessarily autism. Psychiatrists these days seem to operate under the modality that if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it IS a duck. And so they make diagnoses on the basis of one or two parallel characteristics without considering different explanations. Furthermore, their psychological evaluations for conditions such as ADHD, Asperger Syndrome, and even Bipolar Disorder (which I was misdiagnosed with) are deliberately ambiguous such that anyone can fit the description. I know because I was given one for Bipolar, and I can attest that it was about 85% subjective.

From my observations, I can honestly say that unless someone has the pronounced neurocognitive or behavioral variations associated with autism, they do not have Asperger Syndrome. Therefore, what is often misconstrued as Asperger Syndrome is often (from what I've seen in patients) merely a behavioral condition with similarities to Asperger Syndrome. But unless someone TRULY has an autistic component in the category of social misperception or kinesthetic neurological dysregulation (i.e. lack of motor coordination), they do NOT have Asperger Syndrome, and instead have a behavioral condition which may resemble an Autism Spectrum Disorder, but could easily be explained behaviorally.

However, even if someone has a severe Autism Spectrum Disorder, the cognitive/behavioral manifestations of it can be lessened to a considerable degree through cognitive/behavioral conditioning. I have read reports of a 2-year old child who was thought to be severely autistic at the time he was diagnosed. However, six years later, this same child was observed again and could make eye-contact, hold normal conversations with people, and was very social and active. So these things can be overcome.

I do think, though, that psychiatrists need to exercise considerable discretion in diagnosing patients with Asperger Syndrome, and need to consider the prospect of behavioral explanations before they make the diagnosis. I have seen many cases in which a neurotypical individual was misdiagnosed with Asperger Syndrome simply because he had a few behavioral characteristics which RESEMBLED an Autistic Spectrum Disorder, but were not, in fact, caused by autism. So unless there is a clear autistic component, Asperger Syndrome is a behavioral condition that can be outgrown.

I am reading this article and it gives me a positive outlook to the problem of ADHD. I now have hope that the problem can be overcome. If that is all I got from this article, it has made my day. God bless you.

Hi, I have been reading this blog and wondered if there was a blog for partners of a person with AS. I have begun to suspect that my husband has this form of autism. He displays several of the behaviors described by everything I have read lately. I am desparately looking for support.

We have been married nearly 30 years and while I have done my best while always feeling as though I was in an alternate universe with him, it is becoming more and more difficult.

NTs think everyone thinks like they do, and Aspies think everyone thinks like we do (at first anyway, we eventually learn otherwise).

In a room with 99 NTs and 1 Aspie, the judgement is that the Aspie is at fault, for not understanding how everyone else's mind works.

I think it's true that we don't pick up social cues, and emotional content in body language and tone of voice etc. It's like being deaf when everyone else is speaking.

But as you say, if they are so damn good at theory of mind why do they need books like "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"?

When the experts say an Aspie has no theory of mind because they think others know what they know - I think this may be a fuzzy boundary that the aspie shares with schizophrenia. This is only a very tentative idea, I have not thought this through, and I don't know very much.

A normal person knows what is inside his head, and what is outside his head. But a schizophrenic has this filter missing. Things that originate inside his head appear to be coming from outside his head.

Perhaps something similar is at play when someone with Aspergers thinks that others share the same information that is inside his head.

Well I think that to posit that AS people have a lack of empathy is completely wrong. I can't even eat animals because I can't stand the guilt of their needless death. I wonder if they felt fear and desperation in their last moments? I suffered for years until I finally said enough, I will not take what I don't need!

I would go so far as to say that I have never met a NT person that 'feels' empathy as much as I do. If I am not interacting with you it is because the 'slight' signals (93% nonverbal or thousands per minute) you are sending non-verbally are very easily read by me and by the time you are visibly upset, you have been pummeling me with non-verbal messages for minutes, while you 'lie' on the surface.

By that time I am not sure what to do with you, as it seems you have no integrity whatsoever since you would rather 'lie' than be honest about what you feel...I find the entire sequence confusing because you are so completely out of touch with the truth that you have to lie and cover up every transaction you participate in and it causes me to process endless variations of themes of why you are 'lying' and what else I can glean or take from the interaction. I may be stuck processing 5,000 interactions for each single transaction you process once.

People think I am out of touch with my feelings but I am not the one lying to survive...it leads me to believe that I am a lot better person than your average NT person.

I would agree that many persons with AS respond to the "energy" from others. My son is the world's best "lie detector!" When younger, he simply did not know what to do with this information and would just react. Now he can put it into words and can control his reactions.

This is a great article Lynn. And you have some great followers who write interesting comments. I am a good lie detector too, albeit after years of practice and study. Too many people tend to tell you what they think you want to hear. I assume they try to offend the fewest, like politicians. I really hate politicians. I usually say what I think and damn the consequences. When I call people on their BS and they learn that I can see through them, they tend to go away. And I believe I can be too empathetic, to the point of avoiding close interpersonal relationships because I feel their pain too much, but I think a lot of things that cause them pain are silly and illogical. I watch reality tv shows to see how normies act in front of a camera. I am sometimes so empathetic I am embarrassed for them. I don't get religion at all though, and I think a lot of people profess belief to fit in and avoid persecution.

Thank you for contributing to this discussion everyone. I'm trying to sort
out the Aspie-Empathy question myself.

Though never formally diagnosed, both my parents and both my siblings could easily go to a psych and get an Aspergers label. They have all chosen not to - they have read the literature, agreed it describes them and all rejected the label. I can't blame them - who wants to have a Syndrome? As my mother said, "We are who we are and we're not going to change." They are not interested in strategies or support, all having made their own little safe niches in the world, and I respect their decisions.

As someone who would not qualify for an Aspie label, I find the lack of empathy in my family a huge challenge. My family members all show sympathy (and kindness and wanting to help) but no actual emotional response to what others feel. They respond to their own feelings (which are heightened ones, it seems, not being tempered by emotional connection with others.) Eg: if they see someone's wife died , they'll feel sad and maybe upset, imagining how they themselves would feel in that situation. But they absolutely do not tune in to the actual feelings of the person whose wife died. If that person were not sad, my family would not understand that, even if the person told them, "I'm relieved, not sad." They would continue to feel their own feelings about the situation AND they would say, "See, I have empathy." Sympathy is always our own view of the world and though it can look like empathy, they are different things. If someone sits before me talking brightly and positively about commonplace things, and yet underneath they are feeling sad, I will feel immediately that something is not right. Gradually, their feelings of sadness will start to sink into my body, even though I can't logically explain that. That's empathy. In my job, I use empathy and try to avoid sympathy. I get sympathy from my family but there's never been empathy. Sympathy and empathy feel very different, though the may look similar. The effect on others is very different too.

Lately, I've been studying neuroplasticity and early childhood trauma and wondering: is Aspergers the "set in concrete" condition I was originally led to believe in? It's been a useful label for me, in that it's given me some idea of how to communicate and work with my family members. Now I guess I'm trying different ways of understanding them. Rather than, "Their brain is just different," I'm trying: these people seem to have retreated far inside their intellectual selves. They don't connect emotionally with others and they seem scared to do so. Maybe something happened early on, in the womb or the early days, that frightened them of emotional connection? Maybe their environment was too difficult (hypersensitivity?) and they retreated into themselves? Mabye combination of things? And maybe they could "come out", if this world were not so scary?

Don't know! It's a journey for us all. As in an earlier post, I'm sure our understandings of ASD will be far more holistic in the future.

"Eg: if they see someone's wife died , they'll feel sad and maybe upset, imagining how they themselves would feel in that situation. But they absolutely do not tune in to the actual feelings of the person whose wife died. If that person were not sad, my family would not understand that, even if the person told them, "I'm relieved, not sad." They would continue to feel their own feelings about the situation AND they would say, "See, I have empathy." "

Anon, this is a brilliant description.

Yes, this is exactly what I've experienced with my father, and it's taken decades of hurt and a real rift for me to see that the problem isn't that he's bewilderingly cruel, or a jerk, or anything like that. It's that he really cannot step around himself, his own perceptions of how things feel, and sense when things are different for others. He just doesn't notice when that's the case. And if he doesn't know an experience himself, there's just blankness, a strangely unemotional or diagnostic/shrugging response.

He doesn't understand why his erraticness in being part of his grandchildren's life might be confusing or hurtful to them -- that if he engages them in conversation, then abruptly breaks off and vanishes for months or years, they assume the fault is theirs. He doesn't mind the absence, you see, so it makes no sense to him that they would feel anything different.

I've been a single mom for years, and it's been difficult; none of this registers with him. He doesn't understand why I don't go out and get a good job like he had; after all, he knows how to do it. It's never occurred to him to be encouraging, or say, "You're doing a great job," or anything like that, and I suspect that if pressed he'd say, "I don't know what a great job is for a single mother. I have no basis on which to judge." It wouldn't be possible to communicate to him that emotional support and encouragement are important to other people. If you said as much, he'd say, "Well, I hear that this is your opinion, but again, I don't have anything to judge that by." And he'll drop the subject. Come to him with a situation he knows personally as painful, though, and he's very emotional. It's just that...it's all to do with his own emotion. He assumes that must be the one the other person has.

So much has come clear about why he's done so many things that appeared just jawdroppingly cruel, when it's obvious he's not a malicious man.

In conversations with others with AS, I think the problem we run into is just what you point out: the apparent lack of understanding of what empathy actually is. I've seen people with AS get deeply upset at the suggestion that they're not empathic, but it turns out that they've misunderstood "empathic" as "feeling". And they have very deep feelings. I don't really know any way to communicate the difference, though. I hold out hope that it's translatable.

After reading your story, as well as reading the way "Anon" described the difference between empathy and sympathy, I can see that all I've been doing my whole life is exercising sympathy, while never really being able to empathize with anyone else, and this is a truly demeaning and spirit-breaking revelation. I know your comment is incredibly old, and you're probably never going to see this, but as a 19 year old, I have hope that I have time to learn to be a better person, and I don't want to ruin the relationships I have with my family and friends, or make them feel guilty or hurt them in some way due to my brain's inability to function properly. Is there any advice you (or anyone else reading this) could give those of us with AS that could help prevent a situation similar to the one you find yourself in? Perhaps a way to teach ourselves to empathize with others? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Empathy is not the same as compassion. Empathy means that you can read others feelings; compassion means that you care. Psychopaths are often masters of mind reading but have no personal connection. AS people are among the most compassionate that I know. Neurotypical people compulsively construct and hold models of others minds in their own. It is often a preoccupation that turns out to be more like a bug than a feature. It is only too likely that human survival depends on variations in thinking so that we can help each other overcome these built-in blind spots and illusions. "Who do you think made the first stone spear? That wasn't the yakkity yaks sitting around the campfire." - Temple Grandin

Austin your punctuation and spelling are perfect, suggesting a good and valued education. Know this, that for someone who considers himself a very empathetic person, I can bring good insight into how to develop this special skill. In my life experience I have always been a very good listener, and I have developed this while battling depression, ADHD, mild schzophrenia etc. If you can develop the ability to listen with the mind instead of with the ear, (it takes time and patience) you will soon realise that you can relax into a calm and benign state of mind, while in a one on one, or many on one situation in public. There are many people who I call the "yes but" people. You know they are not listening to you, because the moment you stop talking, they say "Yes but, why not do it my way." This is a give away to a person who is not empathetic, they are just pushing their own agenda. So in developing empathy, resist the temptation to think ahead for the person, or to put words in their mouth, or to finish the sentence for them. All good conversation skills are difficult to nurture and develop, but trying to be a good listener is a good place to start. And if they still won't listen to you, bash their heads together. Email me if you want to. And consider this, I am empathetic enough to comment on your spelling and punctuation Well done, young man. Paul

Austin, for a 19yr old you are displaying a high degree of intelligence which will undoubtedly help you negotiate your way through the relationships you make through your life. I wouldn't feel bad that you have 'only been exercising sympathy, while never really being able to empathize with anyone else, ....."
Sure there are differences as has been pointed out. And yet understanding the courtesy of showing sympathy is so important and would still be a valuable asset when you interact with people. Possibly if your bicycle was stolen at some stage and then you heard of someone else whose bike was also stolen, you would feel empathy for that person, because it could be felt on a personal level. This then lends to the theory Aspies only can think in term of themselves and not put themselves in 'another's mind'. As Paul has suggested from his experiences, if you can develop the ability to 'listen with the MIND instead of with the ear'......
I would go in another direction and say to listen with the HEART instead of with the ear. Also think about learning yoga or meditation, which will teach how to reduce the tension that is so high in an Aspie's life. This fact I can attest to as it has made a significent difference in the life of my Aspie partner. Look for a profession, friendships and lifestyles that will empower your happiness and try to avoid those that create anxiety and negativity. I'm sure we all will look forward to your postings in the future Austin and hope that you will keep in touch.

I have just taken the time to look at the link given by Edwin Rutsch (August 2011) and surprised to find information linking yoga and empathy which could be worthwhile reading: http://cultureofempathy.com/Projects/Conference/Sub/Yoga/index.htm

Hello there- yes there really is help! In a number of ways that I can think of....so please don't disdain them just cos you may not immediately ''get it''. I would start by saying God, our creator who created dna and all the beauty, complexity and intricacy in this universe, can and does heal and change us in marvelous ways when we ask. Secondly as some who has and aspie sister and nephew and mother I would say COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE!!! Talk to people, spend REAL, loving, involved time with them. The problem Ive seen is that the aspies I know disconnect and wont talk and THAT is why they have problems. But think about it- when NTs disconnect in this way they also have problems- so in my opinion for what its worth I believe that its the not talking, not sharing, not 'knowing' other people that causes the problem. Ask people AS many questions as you like. Laugh with them- and TELL them HOW YOU feel and think about things... dare to cry, dare to laugh, play with animals, play with children, watch movies together and talk to people about it. Be daring about sharing .. and heres a hint- humour is about incongruity- NTs find things funny because they somehow CONTRADICT their context... the more fully related you are to people and how things are, the more you will get this by intuition. First and foremost you are Human and share this with everyone else and only after that can it be said that you ''have some aspergers traits''- for whatever reason. But remember that traits that we have are not set in stone- we are capable of changing- actually of growing- so never forget that. God created us with the ability to change and to choose- the whole bible is about God asking us to choose good over bad, make choices, to grow- we can change, we can all grow- and we ALL need to change and grow- not just aspies! SOunds to me like you are very open and willing to learn and have an honest heart. My experience of aspies is that there is nothing ''wrong'' with them- but they are experiencing difficulties because they have chosen to indulge personal feelings over getting to know other people ( for whatever reason; that was not said as judgement, just observation) - as a result many of them DO experience isolation and lonliness ( many NTs experience this too, for the same and different reasons!) My advice would be to discover that there is nothing to fear by spending time with people and not only learn what makes them laugh but see it so much that it makes you laugh too. Its the incongruity that makes us laugh remember- there is NOT a ''rule'' of humour- humour is humour precisely because it is stupid, daft and is defying rules. I would deeply encourage you to find freedom in understanding that Jesus came to set people free ( some people get tied up in relgious thinking-but ironically Jesus came to do the opposite of that) Learn, really learn about Jesus with truthful loving honest people... ask God for the freedom and understanding you are looking for... and KNOW that you have that freedom inside you... just keep looking and do not fear, you are fully human with traits ( we all have traits!) and are going to do really well in life because you have an attitude to learn and grow- stay connected to people and God!!! God bless you :) :) :) x x x

I know its an old comment, but Dylan Dailor who is himself on the autism spectrum addressed the question in a TED talk, and has brought it down to the point that what is important for a child (or person) on the spectrum is to be kind to others. "Teach them kindness", was his message. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TajItoz3ftI&feature=share

In any case behavior is far more governed by good and bad habits than anything else. So there is after all no big difference between a good/kind autistic person spectrum and a good /kind NT person. You risk just to be sometimes kind towards the wrong people who use you for bad motivations. But sooner or later you will get that, too, and NTs , if they have a rather good childhood, are also somewhat naive about the nastiness of others, so we are on pretty much a level playing field in that aspect, too. Some of you even perceive the negative part of ambivalent emotions of others better, and have an advantage here. Or might be better at getting into the mind of a deranged person.

For some Apies to disagree that they may have lack of Empathy, maybe that emotion isn't as strongly 'irregular' than other Aspie traits. My husband didn't offer to take me to the Dr when I had severe chest pains. On returning home and telling him the Dr urged me to go to the hospital Emergency, he again looked blankly at me and again, I drove myself. When my brother was seriously ill, he ridiculed me for rushing over to help me.He can however, feel 'sympathy' if he hears of a house fire or some major catostrophe. He can't relate to a decision not to send a 15yr old to jail when he has broken the law. His strong 'righteousness' (an Aspie attitude) over-rules the humanity ruling re child/adult. His 'rigidity' in thinking (a separate trait) possibly adds fuel to the fire. So there is possibly two very strong characteristics that strengthen the lack of empathy field. In other Aspies, maybe these two fields aren't as intense. Suffice to say, my Aspie definately is totally lacking in empathy.

as someone with aspergers and also deep feeling empathy orientation i think that the Central problem of aspergers is this difficulty or slowness with Central Coherence.. THAT is what jams things up or slows things down so much.. lost in a detail or the details and so on (and for Me this Can be even an Unrelated detail that will derail from me Keeping up with the Main point that i am now Behind on feeling empathy for or about because i am caught up in a detail)
... esp. in group dynamics etc with a lot going on.. can get Lost in a unrelated detail or association or Behind in processing everything and so lose the emphatic shared central coherance with the more nuero-typical person(s) (i think is Easier one on one),,, also male, female different types would effect this.. women tend to be wired more senstively for relationalness.. highly senstive males would as well.. they will then more Excell in intelligences (see howard gardner..theory of multiple intelligences) like interpersonal or emphatic etc.. whereas more typical Male brain and type.. will find dealing with cold Objects (ie computers etc etc) (esp with this central coherence problem that will slow the more difficult and nuanced social emphasizing and relating down) at lot easier.. and something they Can be good at (details, special interest) despite the aspergers..thus they will Develop in those areas and tend to get Lost in details of such while never (especially at earlier ages where brain is first forming so many synaptic connections) really getting WIRED enough maybe in these other intelligences...
so That being said.. if one IS well wired for empathy etc (and even if one appears to Not be i would not ever say that could not be developed developed developed/strengthened endlessly) THEN the person with Aspergers.. esp if they are senstive person.. may get even MORE deeply empathetic (again lost in that DETAIL and not contextualizing to greater gestault as well) over whatever particular issue.. Again though easier one on one

May I suggest a further resource to learn more about empathy and compassion.
The Center for Building a Culture of Empathy
The Culture of Empathy website is the largest internet portal for resources and information about the values of empathy and compassion. It contains articles, conferences, definitions, experts, history, interviews, videos, science and much more about empathy and compassion.
http://CultureOfEmpathy.com

Also, I invite you to post a link to your article about empathy to our Empathy Center Facebook page.
http://Facebook.com/EmpathyCenter

I think it might be fair to say that Autistic people speak a different language. People with Autism literally speak in words as a second language, they think in terms of pictures. That can be a very useful thing, people with Autism like Temple Grandin often understand animals intuitively, people with Autism notice details and details can be very important. Nikola Tesla who seems to clearly have Autism from reading his biograpthy was able to build test and correct whole machines in his head before building him. Which was very helpful given how little money he had his whole life. Edison stole most of the patents for his inventions. If Tesla had the desire/social savvy to get his patents he probably would have been the richest man in the world. People with Aspergers are a little different. I have Aspergers and NLD so I am in some ways the polar opposite of people with Autism, and yet with a lot of similarities. I use words and have a big vocabulary am a bit of a savant for spelling yet I don't really understand or care for a lot of the rules of social interaction, I get very nervous, I don't read body language or look at peoples eyes. I guess what I am saying here is that if there is an immigrant student in your class and they don't understand other people very well do they have mind blindness or a lack of moral character(empathy)or do they just not speak the language?

My doctor advised me to start reading anything I could about the subject TOM, and it has been a light bulb moment for me. For much of my life I have been struggling with undiagnosed ADHD and other mental deficiencies, and he now has me on a totally successful regime of treatment, thank God. In the doing of this I have told him that for all my adult life I have been EXTREMELY sensitive to other peoples moods, body language, eye contact etc, and it is only now that he has been able to help me understand why. Having come across this blog has also helped me tremendously. I don't believe that I am Autistic or Aspergers, but I do believe that my childhood/young adult experiences have taught me how to be empathetic towards others, and so importantly use my Theory of Mind nature to almost instantly tell how a person is feeling. I have always been aware of it, but only now do I begin to understand it. My Questions for others more qualified than me is: Is it nature or is it nurture? Is it a natural ability I have inherited or have I learned it?

Having found my husband of 30years has Aspergers has been the hardest thing to deal with and only after two years am I coming out of my grief (or have I just bottled it up?). Reading past posts about Aspies lack of empathy and that this is incorrect, I would have to say that from a partner's aspect, it is very much the case.It is near non existent. Certainly our world points to a very uncaring place - detention centres,child abuse etc etc but the people perpetuating these 'lack of empathy traits' probably run to help their partner if they fall over or make them a cuppa if they have a headache. The Self Help books are there for those who try to uplift their own act or maybe understand friend or partner's unusual behaviour. It certainly doesn't make them Aspergers because they are understanding that our human values can be improved. NT's can move forward in their thinking. Aspergers are unable to do this.

Recently a friend mentioned 'anxiety' to her partner of fifteen years who has Aspergers. Both suffer from anxiety. Her partner, now opening up to his problem, was able to say with honesty "I don't know what anxiety means". So here is a case of his lifetime most likely afflicted with anxiety and he didn't have a word that he understood to explain it. Fortunately Aspergers traits in the older community are now being talked about and Aspies are now able to access help.It's a big move forward for that era when psychology, self help books didn't exist as they now do. We ARE moving forward and how I wish I knew thirty years earlier and were able to deal with my husband's problem differently. Education means everything.

Well Susy I have Aspergers and I am very empathetic I am known for it. Its really more a matter of people with Aspergers and Autism both not always being to read other people and therefore understand their emotional states and responding with empathy in different ways. One theory I have heard is that people with Autism have heightened empathy and that can make responding to a situation overwhelming. Most people with Autism and Aspergers view small talk as pointless, so a gesture or act will be more important to an Autistic person than just saying I'm so sorry that happened to you. Most Autistic find a lot of social conventions and niceties and telling little white lies to be both confusing and repulsive. Maybe you don't notice how your husband shows empathy, or maybe hes just not very nice and it has nothing to do with his condition, or maybe your not very nice lol. I am not saying that about you but I don't know you so its possible. Lets clarify right away that Aspergers/Autism is not defined by a lack of empathy. I really hope people don't go around going is that heartless jerk I know an Aspie? Its harmful to people who have Aspergers/Autism when the general public stereotypes us as less empathetic, essentially less human. If someone has a disability of their leg just about everyone is empathetic. If someones supposedly has an empathy disorder basically you are saying they are a lesser human being. Their is something called Sociopath Personality Disorder, its a personality disorder not a neurological condition. Also not being socially adept and or highly social is not a sign of being a mean person. Aren't many people with a lot of social skills and social power and popularity really mean?

I think a lot of the problem comes from media representations of autistics. I know a lot of people on the autism spectrum and then I watch depictions of people with 'autism' on TV or in the movies where they are depicted as these ridiculous caricatures of apathy. It makes me seethe. Many of my autistic friends are actually more compassionate and empathetic than a lot of NT people I know. Just because autistic people do not automatically understand that people are upset in some instances does not make them awful; I know many NT people who know very well they are upsetting you or deliberately try to upset you and that's much worse than people who may take slightly longer to process people are upset. Yes, and you make a valid point about Antisocial Personality Disorder. I think sometimes people confuse them because people call autistic people antisocial when really they mean asocial. I have taken five psychology courses on different aspects of psychology and in Ab Psych, my professor would stress that people with autism or anxiety disorders are 'asocial' meaning they avoid or have difficulty with social situations, while 'antisocial' is a term that fits sociopathy where people are damaging to other human beings. Calling autistics antisocial, she says, is a gross misuse of the term. I have found most autistic people to be lovely human beings. Don't let anybody tell you that you are not amazing and perfect the way you are. the shaming of people with ASD and mental illnesses in our society needs to stop. People with ASD are not defective. people who bully autistics in this manner seem to miss the irony inherent in promoting stereotypes and demonizing groups of people and saying that the group of people they are directing this nonsense at are the ones who lack empathy.

Thanks Tyler for your insight re empathy. Females Aspies certainly don't show typical lack of empathy (or by virtue of their femininity have they learned appropriate responses?) and because each Aspie has varying degrees of intensity of each characteristic i.e.empathy, rigidity in thinking, taste/touch issues),maybe this is why some Aspies DO understand/have empathy in full or part.

There has to be so much more understanding of the issues with adults as all the literature has concentrated on children.

I havn't read or heard that Aspergers/Autism is defined by a lack of empathy. Never! (How did you come to that conclusion?) Most should be aware of the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers: http://www.asperger-advice.com/diagnostic-criteria-gillberg.html

I also did not say: "If someones supposedly has an empathy disorder basically you are saying they are a lesser human being". Where did you get that idea from????

There is much more that has to be done particularly in the adult field to understand it all. There are some great utube interviews with Dr Tony Attwood: www.autismhangout.com He seems to have a big following because of his work with children and adults and is very well respected for his insight.

Wow so now its only male Autistic people that lack empathy. You may be right about women with Aspergers as women do tend to be more empathetic in general. That is however a broad generalization, I am pretty sure we all know women who aren't empathetic at all and men who are highly empathetic. I think there has been some confusion in regards to the difference between not always being able to read people and not caring about people. You also mention the adult/children issue. Many of the so called experts only focus on children and forget and ignore autistic adults. Some of the things five year old Autistic people do that are so "shocking" and lead people to conclude just how crippled we are aren't all that different than what other five year olds do. As I have gotten older I have learned more and more about how social relations work and have a better understanding of how people probably feel, it helps that I also have feelings myself. Autistic people have plenty of feelings, perhaps more than average. I also used to get lost easily I have learned how to overcome that problem. I now find myself giving "neurotypicals" directions oftentimes. Showing a bit of gasp empathy. With typical "Aspieness" I have memorized most of the bus routes in the county I live in. There are a lot of people I care about that I consider friends who I don't even talk to that much. Sometimes I like to be in the presense of people without saying much. I feel the pain of other people deeply sometimes and sometimes not, like everybody. I find that I process emotions slower than some people, sometimes I find that there is a bit of a delay to when I feel happy sad upset worried about something. A big part of Aspergers is what is called "executive dysfunction" the best way I can describe it is you consciously know what you want to do but you can't always bring your body and mind to carry it out. Another thing I have heard that is a good example of this principle. Autistic people supposedly don't have a sense of humor, according to the experts. I have a sense of humor sometimes I say things that are actually quite funny and make people laugh, and sometimes I think of things that are funny to me that other people don't find funny at all. Another thing on that. Thats just having a atypical sense of humor not a lack of a sense of humor. Have you ever noticed young children autistic or not don't seem to appreciate a good joke at all, they only laugh and tell jokes that adults find stupid. So when I was a kid I had an immature sense of humor, so did everybody, but I grew up. This multibillion dollar industry built up around the "tragedy of Autism" doesn't particularly want us to grow up. I'm just so tired of the stereotypes. Just because one Autistic person seems to lack empathy to you doesn't mean we all do. Also don't rule out the possibility that someone isn't lacking something just expresses it in a different way. As I said before some of the meanest nastiest people out there are great at socializing great at appearing empathetic, as well as gaining empathy they don't deserve.