Disable Smilies in This Post. Show Signature: include your profile signature. Only registered users may have signatures.

*If HTML and/or UBB Code are enabled, this means you can use HTML and/or UBB Code in your message.

If you have previously registered, but forgotten your password, click here.

T O P I C R E V I E W

heng44

These three astronauts were present at the rollout ceremonies for the Space Shuttle Centaur G upper stage at General Dynamics Convair in San Diego on August 13, 1985. They are (l-r) Rick Hauck (STS-61F commander), John Fabian (STS-61G mission specialist) and Dave Walker (STS-61G commander). Fabian was replaced by Norm Thagard one month after this photo was taken. The Centaur was scheduled to launch the Ulysses and Galileo probes, but was cancelled after the Challenger accident because of safety concerns.

mach3valkyrie

I didn't know about the Thagard/Fabian switch.

I think Challenger and Atlantis were going to be modified to carry the Centaur. What is the status of the Centaur pictured?

Great photo and information. Thanks!

heng44

I believe this Centaur was slated to launch Ulysses on STS-61F.

mach3valkyrie

Does it exist anywhere today, perhaps in a display or storage?

Robert Pearlman

I don't know offhand if it is the same unit, but a Centaur G is on display at the U.S. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville, Ala.

That couldn't have been 8/23/85. I was with Rick Hauck at Patrick Air Force Base for the STS-51I pre-launch reception on that day. He was also assigned to one of the crew's families and the first launch attempt was the next day on the 24th.

Tom

Looks like Fabian's STS-51G crew patch does not have the P.S. tab on it. I don't recall seeing a patch for that flight without the additional crew members on it.

heng44

quote:Originally posted by Greggy_D:That couldn't have been 8/23/85.

The photo is dated 8/23/85, but it would not be the first time that a wrong date is given. I'll see if I can find info on when the Centaur was actually rolled out. Maybe the Fabian patch is an indication... before PS were assigned to 51G?

JBoe

On a similar topic, what was the order of upper stages? Was the Centaur G the first followed by the PAM and finally IUS?

Robert Pearlman

Do you mean the order in which they first flew on the shuttle?

The first use of a PAM-D was on STS-5 with the SBS-3 satellite. The first use of the IUS was on STS-6 to deploy TDRS-1.

Centaur G was to be introduced with the deployment of Galileo, as noted above.

JBoe

Yes, that answers my question. Thanks! As a follow-on, which one was conceptualized first even if they didn't fly first?

Hart Sastrowardoyo

quote:Originally posted by heng44:Maybe the Fabian patch is an indication... before PS were assigned to 51G?

For what it's worth, a Morton Thiokol-issued booklet, "Space Shuttle Payload Launch Schedule and Astronaut Flight Assignments" dated 28 March 1985 and based on info as of 25 March 1985 lists a seven-person crew for 51G, with one PS TBD and another being Baudry.

And I could swear I saw an earlier 51G assignment with Garneau (!) listed as one of the PSs...

And if there was a five-person 51G (when they were known as 51D), I'd love to see the crew portrait taken for it. Maybe Fabian would be the better one to ask why he wears the apron-less 51G patch.

Robert Pearlman

quote:Originally posted by JBoe:...which one was conceptualized first even if they didn't fly first?

In the early 1970s, NASA planned to develop what it called a "space tug" for lifting shuttle payloads into higher altitude orbits or boosting spacecraft to other planets. In January 1974, NASA awarded a $1.3 million contract to Rocketdyne to design, build and test liquid-hydrogen and oxygen pumps and gas generators that would eventually be used in the tug. NASA debated the actual design of the tug and whether it would be a modification of an existing upper stage or an entirely new rocket. Four proposals were evaluated including the Air Force's Inertial Upper Stage (IUS), a rededesigned wide-body Centaur, Transtage, and the Interim Orbital Transfer Vehicle (IOTV).

That pegs the conception of Centaur-G and the IUS for use on the shuttle to 1974.

McDonnell Douglas began development of the Payload Assist Module (PAM), also known as the spinning solid upper stage, in 1976 as part of a contract with NASA.

heng44

A publication about the Centaur confirms that the rollout was in August 1985. It does not give an exact date.

Hart Sastrowardoyo

I wonder if the date on the photo is the date it was printed, not necessarily the day it was taken. Kind of like when my family used to send out photos to be developed in the '70s and '80s - just because it says 'FEB 75' on back doesn't necessarily mean it was taken that month....

Robert Pearlman

According to Aviation Week & Space Technology (Aug. 19, 1985), the rollout ceremony for the Centaur-G was held on Aug. 13, 1985. An AP article from that same week confirms the date.

heng44

Looks like a typo then, 23 instead of 13. Thanks Robert.

JBoe

Thanks to all for the background, I really appreciated it!

Hart Sastrowardoyo

And here's an artist's rendition of what a Centaur deployment would look like. Hilmers forgot he was assigned to 61F until I asked about it. Sadly, Walker and Lounge are no longer around to sign it.