Before Sheldon Bruck told his orthodox Jewish parents he was gay, the teenager looked for a way out of homosexuality.

His search led him to JONAH -- Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing -- which claimed on its website to help people "struggling with unwanted same-sex sexual attractions."

JONAH co-director Arthur Goldberg promised Bruck, then 17, that "JONAH could help him change his orientation from gay to straight," according to a consumer fraud lawsuit filed Tuesday against JONAH, Goldberg and a JONAH counselor.

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Only one, but the bulb has to want to be changed.

I wonder if the fellow was thinking it would necessarily be easy. If that’s what this Jonah outfit suggested, and I don’t know if they did, then they were wrong. So he’s sore at them now, why. Does he still want what they had promised or seemed to have promised and is upset that it did not come to pass?

There are other fish in the sea, to mix a metaphor. Salvation-based theology simply works better, and some religions can’t put you in touch with a God that makes an ironclad promise of salvation — “no one can pluck them from My hand.” It matters greatly at the times when one has failed and then come back to one’s senses, to be able to see the issue in an eternal light and to say, dear God I sinned, but thank You, no that failure did not spoil my eternal salvation and I’m keeping on keeping on.

4
posted on 11/27/2012 9:07:28 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

That, and addictions are hard to break. The fundamental starting point is to believe that the addiction is wrong (sin). Be it alcoholism, drugs, pornography, homosexuality, philandering, etc. If the person does not believe the addiction is wrong, he will never leave it. Unfortunately today's culture and media provides nothing but positive feedback about the sin of homosexuality (turning a blind eye to the diseases, early death, and descent into further depravity where this sin eventually leads). It thus becomes very difficult for someone to break the chains while he has the world shouting at him that all is well as he marches towards the abyss.

It’s superficially similar, except possibly the Jonah outfit is coming at the issue as though it was selling a diet soda.

Knowledgeable preachers, both lay and clergy, understand that issues like this don’t stand alone or comprise the most important matter possible. Rather, they are warnings and signs in the midst of a larger, more important story, that of God and man.

8
posted on 11/27/2012 9:15:56 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

It is a condition of having badly gone wrong in the sight of God. But God also told us that it is not fatal. Both testaments of the Bible speak to the matter. In the Old Testament there is the “let us reason together.” In the New Testament the reason is spelled out in the person of Jesus Christ. Our sins sent Jesus Christ to the cross, where He went willingly in order to carry them away. Our logical answer is a life of thanks and continual confession and repentance of sin, never despairing ever.

9
posted on 11/27/2012 9:19:58 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

I agree with what you say but would point out that if you are going to come to God for help you can’t just agree that the sin which is causing you the most problems is wrong. You must accept the WHOLE counsel of God and agree to change you life entirely to conform to God’s will. And it almost always takes time. Finally, one thing I’ve experienced in my Christian walk is the progressive nature of sanctification. Once I get on top of a certain sinful area of my life I’ve identified and decided to deal with, God opens my eyes to 10 other areas where I am falling short.I suspect he figures if he showed me all at once just how bad I am I’d just curl up in a ball and give up and die! LOL.

I confess I haven’t made an inquiry into that, due to the fundamental difference between modern (Pharisaical) Judaism and Christianity. Why nose into how a works-based religion tries to solve a problem that needs grace to solve? Now if a person professing Judaism should come across this thread, I must agree to disagree with his or her theology. I do not curse the Jews as a people; that is a huge biblical no-no. But I preach the gospel to all kinds of people, Jewish or gentile, so that some may be saved.

13
posted on 11/27/2012 9:31:53 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

Yes! Whatever sin seems to trip you up the most, is ultimately not a stand alone issue. It’s one manifestation of a larger problem. God perhaps saw that by letting it (whatever it is) become such a big problem, it was the only way you’d see that God matters, and it would be the beginning of a fuller reconciliation. Letting man fail is part of the gracious plan of God.

14
posted on 11/27/2012 9:37:40 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

“The conversion therapy techniques included having them strip naked in group sessions, cuddling and intimate holding of others of the same-sex, violently beating an effigy of their mothers with a tennis racket, visiting bath houses “in order to be nude with father figures,” and being “subjected to ridicule as ‘faggots’ and ‘homos’ in mock locker room scenarios,” the suit said.

Of course this is a court case, so who knows, but if that is true then it isn’t what I pictured as going on when headshrinking away the gay.

Someone was bound to quote it. Sometimes, gradually learning how to approach difficult situations of normal life in a right frame of mind can be helpful, but phewee, even most secular psychiatrists know better than to get their patients to approach difficult situations too soon, and some of this stuff would never be seen in a normal life. It would be too easy to get into some of these “exercises” in a wrong or weak frame of mind at best, and have the problem made worse rather than better.

And whacking a mother effigy... I don’t care how clingy and stifling she was, and that’s a byword in popular Jewish culture, that’s wrong. That’s not saying no to the nonsense in the power of God. Man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness of God.

20
posted on 11/27/2012 10:02:15 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

Well... there’s bad relationships (lust) and good ones (friendships, brotherly love). If it’s the lust part that suffered... well shoot. This is going to get chucked out of any sane court (of course it could be queered by a gay judge, pun intended) post haste.

23
posted on 11/27/2012 10:10:35 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

The conversion therapy techniques included having them strip naked in group sessions, cuddling and intimate holding of others of the same-sex, violently beating an effigy of their mothers with a tennis racket, visiting bath houses "in order to be nude with father figures," and being "subjected to ridicule as 'faggots' and 'homos' in mock locker room scenarios," the suit said.

I have no problem of the premise of reparative therapy, but the techniques sound like something out of Monty Python.

24
posted on 11/27/2012 10:14:40 AM PST
by Dr. Sivana
(There is no salvation in politics.)

I wouldn’t be surprised to find this Bruck guy entered into this “therapy” never intending to change. Now he can hit the lecture circuit and bash all gay therapy programs as bad or ineffective. It’s what the gay movement wants—you can’t change their “inborn” nature is their mantra.

It’s much like Anti-Mormons joining the Mormon Church (under false pretenses) then a few months later leaving amid a great fanfare of sudden “revelation” that the Mormons are wrong—and now they hit the Anti lecture circuit as “Former Mormons” with some secret insight into the Mormon Church.

The media has decided sodomy is to be celebrated, so any attempt to live and believe according to classical Judeo-Christian ethics must be shut down.

Some years ago, we had a homosexual friend/acquaintance who was dying of AIDS. In the months before his death, he "got religion" and destroyed all his homo porn because he saw it as a real threat to his salvation. I pray that James made it because you could see the internal struggle and the realization of what his lifestyle had cost him. I really have no idea of whether one can be born homosexual or be turned that way; much less if one can become "straight", but I have known several who have sworn off the lifestyle and I admire them because even run-of-the-mill vices can be hard to overcome. All of them got involved in a church and used the strength of God's Word and those who love the Lord as a foundation for their changes in lifestyle.

“Downing initiated a discussion about Levin’s body and instructed Levin to stand in front of a full-length mirror and hold a staff,” the suit said. “Downing directed Levin to say one negative thing about himself, remove an article of clothing, then repeat the process. Although Levin protested and expressed discomfort, at Downing’s insistence, Levin submitted and continued until he was fully naked. Downing then instructed Levin to touch his penis and then his buttocks. Levin, unsure what to do but trusting in and relying on Downing, followed the instructions, upon which Downing said ‘good’ and the session ended.”

If this is legit, I am shocked that it didn’t work. I mean come on. I imagine one would stop being gay just to end the weird creepiness of the sessions. I suppose it did work for one guy in a way:

“Unger’s ability to have physical and emotional relationships with men was impaired and he was unable to work for a year, the suit said.”

I suspect he figures if he showed me all at once just how bad I am Id just curl up in a ball and give up and die! LOL.

That is true. I remember in my 'pre-Christian' days I always bought the line that 'everyone is basically good' -- with only a few deviant exceptions. The Bible hits you over the head with a two by four, and tells you that you are a sinner. There is none righteous, no not one. Our first parents were taken in by the sin of pride and covetousness, and they have spawned a race of covetous and prideful children. You are also right that we focus on one besetting sin, but then we find that we are just peeling an onion. Thank God we have a Loving God and Saviour that came for sinners and adopts us into His family as we are. Once we are in the family we endeavor to clean up our act to please He who saved us -- albeit we know we will never get completely there until we see Him in Heaven.

Sounds like something designed by an egghead psychologist who might be brilliant but with little or no appreciation of how the real world works. I guess they’d call this the creep-out method, huh. Christian ministries don’t do weird stuff like that.

35
posted on 11/28/2012 12:55:52 AM PST
by HiTech RedNeck
(How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)

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