The counter cancer does seem to set in around Orange belt. You then meet green and blue belts who proudly announce themselves as 'counter fighters', they never make dan grade and drop out of the sport a few months or years later.

The cause of counter cancer is instructors teaching counters to people below blue/ brown belt.

These beginners then spend their randoris stiff arming until the other attempts an attack, then they wrap themselves around them and drag them to the floor in an ugly heap. Thus the 'counter fighter' is born.

If you ever want to be good at Judo, ban yourself from doing counters, drops and makikomi until you have your dan grade.

Concentrate on pro-actively throwing with upright positive techniques, you can thank me when you've got your dan grade and aren't some Judo tard who's an embarrasment to the grade.

Damned straight ! Teaching counters to beginners/novices is a bad thing to do. The solid base of fundamentals and attacking Judo need to be well set before heading off into kaeshi waza.

Ben

Falling for Judo since 1980

"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

"The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

"Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

so.... no tani otoshis until I'm a black belt. Hmmm... not sure I like this, but it is a valid point.

About a year and a half into judo I was doing a bunch of tani otoshi, it worked because my partners had not developed great offensive technique yet, well eventually they did develop better offensive technique and my tani otoshi opportunities showed up less and less. Moral of the story, they improved while I did not, stick to J_UK and BKRs advice and you will advance faster.

To everyone: Counter throws and especially sutemi waza type counter throws require a lot of coordination and control to do correctly and not injure uke and/or tori. Against inexperienced judoka, another inexperienced judoka who learns counter throws early will "win" a lot in randori and in win in shiai for sure. I've seen that with my own eyes time and time again.

It's akin to teaching and drilling little kids to do Seoi Otoshi (aka "Drop Seoi nage) and then sending them to shiai. What happens is they win a lot. Some will continue to win because they get so good at it, but eventually it stunts their overall Judo. It just gets too easy to fall down to throw.

I know this from personal experience as well. I had my right knee blown out after a couple of years of Judo. Due to my stature and proportions, I was getting very good at low/squatting type seoi nage, and to a certain degree Tai Otoshi. Add in a natural quickness and I was pretty much devastating guys with a lot more experience in local/state level shiai. After my knee got blown, I could no longer go so low/squat without my knee popping out, so I started doing Seoi Otoshi (on knees/one knee). I got damned good at it too. After I had knee surgury ( like, 4-5 years after the initial injury), I simply could not go back to low but still standing seoi nage in shiai. My whole nervous system was keyed to drop. To this day, I have the same tendency. My standing seoi (most varieties) are quite nice,but in shiai I still drop.

The same is true for sutemi (sacrifice) waza. It's a LOT easier to fall down on your side/back on a sutemi attempt than to do a forward/rear throw. And against other beginners/novices, it is pretty safe to do. Little worries for getting countered.

Sutemi waza require tsurikomi action as do the standard forward/backward throws. See judoka_UK's blog or posts here on Bullshido for details. So if your tsurikomi sucks, your sutemi waza and or counters are going to suck as well.

Ben

Last edited by BKR; 12/28/2012 6:17pm at .

Falling for Judo since 1980

"You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

"The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

"Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl