Warriors are hands down the best class right now. This is from a pure Arena perspective, and most if not all of the top rated players agree on this.

I think battleground balance is a myth. There are too many debuffs and buffs to accurately determine if X class is the best. You will often see insane numbers, but that is with the best buffs and debuffs assisting. If anything BM Hunters are the best for battlegrounds, I guess. Any ranged class would be great though.

From a mostly BG perspective so far; DK's come out as number one, followed by Warriors, Destro Locks and BM Hunters. Those are the 4 most over the top classes right now if you ask me. Monk is great but surprisingly enough not the most OP one.

From a mostly BG perspective so far; DK's come out as number one, followed by Warriors, Destro Locks and BM Hunters. Those are the 4 most over the top classes right now if you ask me. Monk is great but surprisingly enough not the most OP one.

This is from a pure Arena perspective, and most if not all of the top rated players agree on this.

How can you judge about that in the first week with not everyone even wearing full pvp gear? Most people still lack decent weapons and a lot of people aren't 100% comfortable with the new talents, class synergies and so. Just look at Reckful ( http://de.twitch.tv/reckful ) to get a decent idea of what this class is capable, he's new to the warrior class but he is an pvp veteran with teammates knowing what they're doing and it's not like he's wrecking people.

The only thing really outstanding right now is 'any druid' with the Heart of the Wild talent, allowing some insane burst (and even sustained damage) for an absurd timeframe (45s). I can see that warrior have (finally!) a new reign but that's because the class is way easier to play (Getting trained? why not swap to defensive stance for -25% damage taken? Else just sit in battle stance all day) and always was well presented in the lower end brackets. Add that it's easier to understand (stance restrictions gone) and having shockwave (lining perfectly up with DR and it's cooldown) clearly helps + a blanket silence on top of that for just a major glyph slot + (mass) fear with a fair cooldown allows a decent CC chain even without any help at good mobility (always the class' strength).

But reck still has 5 minutes cooldown and i guess we'll see a patch rather soon not allowing crit-banner + it being popped at the same time + avatar. Execute is strong but that's no warrior exclusive ability any longer, almost any class either got additional damage below 35/20% or an extra button to kill stuff almost guaranteed and without cooldowns warrior are just as scary as a ret paladin... not at all

I see some problems with healing from dps classes whatsoever, especially rets capabilities seems way out of hand - i'd prefer having less overlaps and more restrictions (or at least penalities) in their role-models in this expansion.

And some things seems kind of annoying or unconsidered like "spamming" ring of frost (1/3 uptime) or rather small killframe windows (60s Deterrence cooldown, really?) - but we'll have to see how this turns out during the season.

Most disturbing part by far is not resetting the MMR for this expansion, we already saw in previous seasons how that ended...

How can you judge about that in the first week with not everyone even wearing full pvp gear? Most people still lack decent weapons and a lot of people aren't 100% comfortable with the new talents, class synergies and so. Just look at Reckful ( http://de.twitch.tv/reckful ) to get a decent idea of what this class is capable, he's new to the warrior class but he is an pvp veteran with teammates knowing what they're doing and it's not like he's wrecking people.

I played MOP beta and have played Arenas since the first season. I can make judgements based on my experience, and I am very confident with saying that Warriors are the strongest class right now (for Arena). Reckful himself has stated that Warriors are over the top at this point so I am not sure why you would bring him up, he has always wanted balance for the game regardless of whether it affects his character.

As for the gear comment, pretty much everyone right now is in the max gear available when playing above 2.2k. So the damage to health pool ratio now is not really going to be too far off from damage in full Malevolent. The argument that people are not fully geared is not a valid argument. The bump in defensive stats will be offset by the 490 weapons (Huge DPS\top end gains and PvP power). The defensive increase is always similarly linear to the offensive increase. If it was not linear every season would have games getting slower and slower.

Originally Posted by klausistklaus

I can see that warrior have (finally!) a new reign but that's because the class is way easier to play

This is actually completely inaccurate. Having more things to do increases a skill cap, it does not lower it. While people would always complain about Rogues in previous expansions, they always had a very high skill cap compared to other classes. There was an astronomical difference between a decent Rogue and a good one. Lower end players have always had a hatred for Rogues though, mainly based off of World PvP and the "cheapness" factor the class has in that kind of scenario. I hated Rogues at first too, but as I progressed as a player I realized that they were not so bad.

Ignoring the insane damage and slight ridiculousness of Second Wind, Warriors have a higher skill cap now than before. This is easily witnessed when watching Reckful play compared to even someone like Bajheera. Reckful is such an elegant player and is capable of doing things on a Warrior that not many people, even those playing Warriors for years like Bajheera, can do. Bajheera is a great guy and Warrior, this is by no means a bash on him.

You mention your own defensive CDs about that pets can still attack through it, but the same can be said for detterence since all DoTs still tick through it. A menagerie of pets only appear 'once' every 5mins just for the record in case you didn't know, but once again, I can understand if you don't since most people are probably just in frustration after being zerged to death by pets every 5mins (little do they know Stampede is not spammable fortunately).

The problem with BM is pet spam - Stampede is obviously a big part of it - and honestly, just making Stampede not usable in arenas and rbgs would probably go a long way to fixing the problem by itself (but obviously pets should not ignore resilience and damage reduction effects, so that needs to get fixed too).

Comparing dots ticking through deterrence isn't even remotely comparable to Stampede globalling someone. At the start of an arena, coming out with 50 inivisible pets and instantly killing anyone who can't bubble isn't balanced, it's the biggest problem with arenas right now - so long as hunters can queue - no semblance of balance will exist: frost mages are still overpowered, warriors are probably overtuned - but neither of them consistently begin every arena match by globalling the first person they target: not even attack themselves.

You know it as well as I do, Stampede simply cannot be allowed in arenas and rbgs - and if that means that BM is then underpowered (I doubt it) then they should receive a buff to match - but I think you'll find that just between BM's already considerable cooldown-stacking even when ignoring Stampede that they're a very capable class.

---------- Post added 2012-10-07 at 01:42 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Skarssen

I have always considered the term "global" to refer to 1 general cooldown. However that can't be what you mean, because no one can kill you in 1 GCD. So, what do you mean by "globaled"?

We have the same meaning, currently BM hunters can global anybody when their pets are up.

How are rogues looking? do you think comps such as thugcleave. rls, rmp, dancing with the stars, etc, will be good still? I understand that they aren't amazing in damage, but do you think they'll improve?

How are rogues looking? do you think comps such as thugcleave. rls, rmp, dancing with the stars, etc, will be good still? I understand that they aren't amazing in damage, but do you think they'll improve?

A Thugcleave team is currently the highest team on US realms, someone may have passed them by now but as of last night they were the highest. One of the games the Hunter missed the queue and they still won with just the Rogue and Shaman. Take that as you will.

I must say i think warrs are REALLY great atm in arenas as for the dps while i see resto druid making a good comeback. I am not sure thou since i havent tried alot arenas this expansion myself yet but thats how i feel after the few i tried

Reckful himself has stated that Warriors are over the top at this point so I am not sure why you would bring him up, he has always wanted balance for the game regardless of whether it affects his character.

I brought him up because he's the only player capable of playing at high rating arena with a warrior who's streaming right now. Warriors burst since PTR has been nerfed by ~ 10% due to serveral hotfixes (reducing numbers all the time on MS, Slam and Execute).

Originally Posted by Hatexoxo

As for the gear comment, pretty much everyone right now is in the max gear available when playing above 2.2k.

You might want to recheck on that point, some people already got lucky in their first raids yielding a nice epic while other still stuck with 450 weapons instead of heroic 463 ones right now. Some already got their Darkmoon Cards and so on. We should wait another week or two before we make our final judgements.

Originally Posted by Hatexoxo

This is actually completely inaccurate. Having more things to do increases a skill cap, it does not lower it.

Well and this is where i got lost at your posting. What's about stance-dancing? What's about shield bash (gone with 4.1 *sadface*)? What's about pummel having a stance requirement? What's about needing two globals to spell reflect? While warrior lost a lot of mobility* over the seasons the skill cap decreased noticeable. You don't have to worry about stance swaps draining all your rage any longer or ... well many things have changed over the years

* or other classes just got more stuff to snare/root/immobilise

Originally Posted by Hatexoxo

Warriors have a higher skill cap now than before. This is easily witnessed when watching Reckful play compared to even someone like Bajheera. Reckful is such an elegant player and is capable of doing things on a Warrior that not many people, even those playing Warriors for years like Bajheera, can do.

While Bajheera is capable of hitting the record button and cutting nice movies he's not a very good warrior (never got glad or even broke 2200 as far as i'm aware of - even while playing WLS during s11 - please correct me if i'm totally wrong here). And while Reckful is an elegant & sympathic player he just started with his warrior and there are still many specific things to learn. Watching him is fun, but only because he's an entertainer and charmeur. It's not fun because of any skills shown to date, actually he's quite bad just as we all was when we started playing a new class. I've watched his stream all week on work and that's the impression i got from that, interesting how much different this is from your perception.

Actually i forgot about the Second Wind part, fair enough to mention it. Especially on duels it's rather ridiculus but in a regular 3on3 with coordinated bursts it's not gamebreaking by any means especially if you're talking about rogues half of your post - just think about the recuperate in it's first state.

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Hunter's stampede: looks like those pets all scale with BM-mastery thus it's way out of hand right now especially if you line it up with those 3k-ish agi procc trinkets (times two!).

Edit and please don't forget to all those complaining about warriors: if you're teaming up with your buddy for some 2vs2 fun you can't compare your high stack slaughter pooled 100k HS crits + all cooldowns with a regular 3vs3 match where you get peeled and can't sit and stack your buff up indefinetly. It's a totally different game/feeling imho.

You're absolutely hilarious, not even gonna answer that joke of a post, I will just sit there and wait for the inevitable nerfbat to come. Considering how ridiculous warriors are right now it will probably come next week.

You just don't realize that almost every class is ridiculous, keep waiting for the nerfbat, he will surely come for warriors, but they will not be alone.
Learn to stay on a forum.

How are rogues looking? do you think comps such as thugcleave. rls, rmp, dancing with the stars, etc, will be good still? I understand that they aren't amazing in damage, but do you think they'll improve?

Well there is a thugcleave team that's 2500 right now (BM, rogue, resto shaman). The thing is all 3 players are multi-rank 1's so I wouldn't say every rogue has a chance to be that great.

I brought him up because he's the only player capable of playing at high rating arena with a warrior who's streaming right now. Warriors burst since PTR has been nerfed by ~ 10% due to serveral hotfixes (reducing numbers all the time on MS, Slam and Execute).

I realize that they have had their damaged toned a little. But that was not really enough seeing as damage is not the only thing that matters in arenas. If you think that Warriors are fine right now I would say that you are biased.

Originally Posted by klausistklaus

You might want to recheck on that point, some people already got lucky in their first raids yielding a nice epic while other still stuck with 450 weapons instead of heroic 463 ones right now. Some already got their Darkmoon Cards and so on. We should wait another week or two before we make our final judgements.

There is nothing to recheck. I said "pretty much everyone", this means that some people did get lucky and have better gear. This is the same story every season. If you have played other seasons you should know by now that the whole "wait for gear" comment is rubbish. I can understand new players using this argument but any veteran player would have seen this story unfold several times.

Originally Posted by klausistklaus

Well and this is where i got lost at your posting. What's about stance-dancing? What's about shield bash (gone with 4.1 *sadface*)? What's about pummel having a stance requirement? What's about needing two globals to spell reflect? While warrior lost a lot of mobility* over the seasons the skill cap decreased noticeable. You don't have to worry about stance swaps draining all your rage any longer or ... well many things have changed over the years

Stance dancing was never skill intensive, it was an annoyance which is why it was removed from the game. Dancing was really nothing more than having a bunch of macros for everything, hardly skill intensive. Sure if you weren't playing properly and not having the correct macros for everything I could see it maybe being more skill intensive. But if you weren't using all of the correct macros you were not playing optimally.

Originally Posted by klausistklaus

While Bajheera is capable of hitting the record button and cutting nice movies he's not a very good warrior (never got glad or even broke 2200 as far as i'm aware of - even while playing WLS during s11 - please correct me if i'm totally wrong here). And while Reckful is an elegant & sympathic player he just started with his warrior and there are still many specific things to learn. Watching him is fun, but only because he's an entertainer and charmeur. It's not fun because of any skills shown to date, actually he's quite bad just as we all was when we started playing a new class. I've watched his stream all week on work and that's the impression i got from that, interesting how much different this is from your perception.

Very good is relative. Relative to the WoW player base he is very good, and he has broken 2200 in every bracket other than 2s. If you truly think that Reckful is quite bad I would would hope that you are above 2500 rating. While he has not mastered the Warrior class yet he is far from anything related to bad.

Originally Posted by klausistklaus

Actually i forgot about the Second Wind part, fair enough to mention it. Especially on duels it's rather ridiculus but in a regular 3on3 with coordinated bursts it's not gamebreaking by any means especially if you're talking about rogues half of your post - just think about the recuperate in it's first state.

Recuperate when first introduced was 3% ever 3 seconds was it not? Second Wind heals per second for the same amount, there is no comparison. If the original Recuperate got nerfed it is safe to assume that a stronger version of it would be nerfed as well yes?