Room for background questions

If you have any questions about Aventuria, you can ask them here, and I'll try to answer them as good as I can. Help of others is highly appreciated, too.

Alrik

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

If you choose a country, you might or might not be able to order some beer …

(On a more serious note, this works today rather as some kind of joke … One can't order anything at all anymore … But some people at the Drakensang forum said it was possible - for a short time only.)

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Hmm okay, I'll start. I actually haven't properly given the game a go yet. But something at the character creation always bothered me.
Is there some lore reason that classes seem to be tied to Ethnicity? Or is that just a limitation of the game?

Yes, although some cultures will hardly ever have some combinations naturally.

The rules system would allow this, on the other hand.

One combination is elven priests. Nowadays Elves just don't have priests. They don't believe in any gods (apart from Simia, and that only from a very, very, very far distance).

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

It would be possible within the rule system (so maybe you could play them), but the setting doesn't allow them. There are just no dwarven mages in Aventuria, partly because they are so much non-affine to magic at all.

In principle, a dwarven mage would be possible within the rules system, but he would have so much more difficulties with magic that it just wouldn't be worth to play him, as far as I understood this. Geodes are the only solution I know of, and even they are a very rare and very special sort of people. They aren't common at all, apart from the possibility to play them.

You can consider Geodes as the - so to say - dwarven representation of Aventurian Druids.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

It would be possible within the rule system (so maybe you could play them), but the setting doesn't allow them. There are just no dwarven mages in Aventuria, partly because they are so much non-affine to magic at all.

In principle, a dwarven mage would be possible within the rules system, but he would have so much more difficulties with magic that it just wouldn't be worth to play him, as far as I understood this. Geodes are the only solution I know of, and even they are a very rare and very special sort of people. They aren't common at all, apart from the possibility to play them.

No dwarves may become mages at a few selected academies (5-7 depending on cutural background). However it is incredibly rare: for a dwarf to have any magical ability his twin brother needs to die as an infant and the young dwarf has to join an academy before the traditional geodes get hold of him. In fact there is exactly one dwarven mage in the entire TDE background: the head of the White Mages' Guild Saldor Folslarin (yeah one of the mages from Shadows over Riva, though he was retconned to be a dwarf only a year before the game was released (because he was too comically short for a adult human) which is why he still is a human in the cutscene artwork as that had already been produced).

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
You can consider Geodes as the - so to say - dwarven representation of Aventurian Druids.

Well, to make it clear Aventurian Druids are the human "offsprings" of the historically older Geodes.

Okay, you seem to have better and more detailed bacxkground information than I have.

I only have the TDE3 boxes on magic and elves/dwarves, so I hesitate to post more on that, because of the numerous changes that came with TDE4.

I had the impression as if the magic system had been totally changed since them, and the look on the Aventurian Dwarves and Elves as well.

Even most of the spells of the 3rd edition don't exist anymore, instead, so my impression, a great number of new spells has been made, of which some do about the same as the older 3rd edition spells.

This all has put me into a quite serious feeling of uncertainty, because I don't know anymore whether what i write is right or wrong.

But the info about the Geodes is already in the old TDE 3rd edition boxes, but there's few or almost nothing about magic in connection with Dwarves in theat. And with "magic" I rather mean magic in terems of academies. Of course what Drouds do is also magic, but not in the same sense as an Aventurian mage coming from an Academy would consider it. And I don't remember the old 3rd edition boxes saying anything about Dwarves being able to learn at an Academy.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Looks like D&D isn't the only one that likes to change the rules A LOT.

Nonetheless, I find the Aventuria world very interesting. I wish Drakensang had offered more character customization options.

Also, am I correct, based on experience in the game, the the magic system isn't as expansive as that of the D&D system? I get the impression that magic in Aventuria is much more "down to earth" when compared to the rather massive and "can be out there" magic system of the D&D system.

If I seem to be biased towards magic users, I am. In particular the summoner types.

Aventuria is rather regarded as a kind of "low fantasy" environment - meanwhile Myranor, the second big TDE setting with partly quite different rules - is a rather "high fantasy" setting.

The next setting that has just been accounced at the RatCon - an almost TDE-only convention, held by FanPro and nowadays by Ulisses - will be called "Dark Times and take place several hundred years before now - and that is when the whole world of Aventuria was … well, more dark, for example, the Edict which says that only 12 aventurian gods are the "true" gods, doesn't even exist then.

Another new setting will be the South Continent called Uthuria. It will be a mixture between both low fantasy of Aventuria and high fantasy of yranor, because both settings will kind of meet there.

I don't know inhowfar anything of this will be translated into the English language.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I had the impression as if the magic system had been totally changed since them, and the look on the Aventurian Dwarves and Elves as well.

[ ]

But the info about the Geodes is already in the old TDE 3rd edition boxes, but there's few or almost nothing about magic in connection with Dwarves in theat. And with "magic" I rather mean magic in terems of academies. Of course what Drouds do is also magic, but not in the same sense as an Aventurian mage coming from an Academy would consider it. And I don't remember the old 3rd edition boxes saying anything about Dwarves being able to learn at an Academy.

Not really, and I'm pretty sure that Dwarves could become Mages in the 3rd edition too, but I would have to look that up.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Even most of the spells of the 3rd edition don't exist anymore, instead, so my impression, a great number of new spells has been made, of which some do about the same as the older 3rd edition spells.

It's true that many spells were renamed to sound less like child rhymes between the 3rd and 4th edition, but none was lost.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
This all has put me into a quite serious feeling of uncertainty, because I don't know anymore whether what i write is right or wrong.

I certainly wouldn't worry about that, considering the scope that TDE has there is only one thing certain: nobody knows every detail.

Originally Posted by leth
Looks like D&D isn't the only one that likes to change the rules A LOT.

Well between the 3rd and 4th edition of the TDE ruleset, the actual game didn't change much only minor stuff like equation-details are different, the big change was in the character-creation-department the complexity increased by several orders of magnitude. Drakensang did only have the character creation complexity of the 3rd edition by only giving the option to choose from a bunch of completely pregenerated characters.

Originally Posted by leth
Also, am I correct, based on experience in the game, the the magic system isn't as expansive as that of the D&D system? I get the impression that magic in Aventuria is much more "down to earth" when compared to the rather massive and "can be out there" magic system of the D&D system.

Well I can't say that I know the D&D magic system in and out so make from this what you will: it is certainly true that not every other item is magical but the TDE magic system is quite expansive. Drakensang does not make this clear, it only scratches the surface of the bare basics.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Aventuria is rather regarded as a kind of "low fantasy" environment - meanwhile Myranor, the second big TDE setting with partly quite different rules - is a rather "high fantasy" setting.

That is just not true and I know a lot of people like to make that claim. These people don't seem to know what the terms "low fantasy" and "high fantasy" actually mean. Low fantasy is fantasy set in the real world (e.g. on earth or within our universe). High fantasy is fantasy set in it's own universe. Calling TDE low fantasy is ludicrous.

These people are trying to criticize what they personally do not like about Aventuria. Most of the time it's the level of realisim within it (too much!/not enough!), the level of detail published (too much!), the similarities to The Lord of the Rings (too much!) or the similarities to D&D (not enough!).

By the way Myranor is not more a high fantasy setting then Aventuria: it's just less Tolkien. Myranor and Aventuria are played with the same rules with local differences. Magic works slightly different in Myranor. The magic traditions are different and Myranor does not have magical spells, only magical rituals. Even aventurian spellcasters have a harder time casting spells in Myranor then in Aventuria.

Originally Posted by noctrun
That is just not true and I know a lot of people like to make that claim. These people don't seem to know what the terms "low fantasy" and "high fantasy" actually mean. Low fantasy is fantasy set in the real world (e.g. on earth or within our universe). High fantasy is fantasy set in it's own universe. Calling TDE low fantasy is ludicrous.

That depends on the definition.

I had always thought the definition of "low fantasy" was : Few magic, overall.

And "high fantasy was : "lots of magic everywhere".

Plus, I personally define "high magic" with rather … unusual creatures of any kind, whereas I connect with "low fantasy" the rather absence of unusual creatures, with dwarves and eleves and maybe orcs as the maybe even only representants of other races at all, apart from humans.

That's my personal definition.

And you can't deny that magic is rather widespread in everyday use in Myranor than in Aventuria, including magical items.

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Elves do believe in gods. Everybody believes in them, because they DO exist and often show their power (e.g. by lending some of it to their priests to perform liturgies and rituals - which explicitely isn't magic and doesn't - rulewise - work like magic).
The gods do even actively influence and alter the world (Ethra) themselves from time to time.

Now here is my point:

The elves, as the only people in Aventuria, don't worship any gods.

That is the important distinction here.

And by the way:
the magic-system for Aventuria (without divine things, like liturgies, shaman rituals and stuff like that) is actually incredibly complex.

The main rulebook for magic (Wege der Zauberei, "Ways of Sorcery") is 432 pages. And it comes without any spells, character classes and the like.
Then there is the artifact and alchemy book (Staebe, Ringe, Dschinnenlampen, "Staffs, Rings, Djinnlamps") with another 132 pages, about half of it rules and the other half examplary artifacts and potions.
And then there is the grimoire, the "Liber Cantiones" (302 pages), with more then 200 regular spells (each of them with variations) as well as the many rituals of the different magical disciplines.
For example "wand enchantments" for mages, "curses" for witches and wiccans, magical songs for elves, etc.

(for the sake of completeness I should also mention Myranische Magie, "Myranian Magic" - explaining sorcery in Myranor, which is completely unlike magic in Aventuria - adding another 272 pages)

As an example of the complexity here is an example of a standard spell from the 4th edition, taken from the Yahoo Dark eye group (did I translate this? I think so…):

Armatrutz/Fastness of BodyOrigin: Guild MagicTechnique: The caster moves her hands across her chest while uttering ama tharzaCasting time: 3 actionsTest: IN/AG/CNCost: Bonus AR times bonus AR  SP*/2 in ASP; but always at least 4 ASPTarget: individual, voluntaryRange: selfDuration: up to a maximum of 1 GTEffect: The caster receives a "steel skin" that boosts her natural Armor Rating, up to SP/2 points. The additional armor does not increase EC. Like real armor it protects against physical attacks (also against elemental and demonic attacks with a physical nature), but not against spells that cause damage magically, like THUNDERBOLT. ARMATRUTZ also protects against bites of animals like rats or bats which attack unprotected body parts and which normally cause DP instead of HP.Modifications: Casting Time, Cost, Range
(touch), DurationVariants:Bodyshield (+4): The spell is cast only on one part of the body and costs less accordingly. For the Hit Zones chest, back and belly the ASP cost is halved; for head, arms and legs it is one fourth; but it is always at least 3 ASP.Fakir's power (+3, SP of 7 required): Under the influence of this variant the caster is impervious to damage that would cause 1 DP or less. Greater amount of damage affect her normally, though. Bugs (mosquitoes, etc.) do not sting the elf and
she can walk (but not run or jump) across shards undamaged. The Duration has a maximum of SP* Game Turns (Sustain), the cost is 1 ASP per GT.Reversalis: Cancels an active ARMATRUTZ.Antimagic: RESTORE ATTRIBUTE as well as ROCKBAN can stop the effect; can only be cast with increased difficulty in corresponding zones.Characteristics: Attributes, Elemental (Stone)Complexity: BRepresentation and propagation: Elf, Mag 6, Wit 3, Dru 2Notes: Though this spell actually originated from elves it is  together with the Ice Elven' FLIM FLAM (/LIGHT IN THE DARKNESS) one of the most-taught spells at human academies. Witches and some druids know this protection spell too. Other spellcasters often learn the easily accessible elven or guildmagic representation if they want to protect themselves.

Originally Posted by ulixes
The elves, as the only people in Aventuria, don't worship any gods.

That is the important distinction here.

Yes ? I always thought they wouldn't believe in them - or has this changed with newer publications ?

Especially regarding the different factions of Elves … Wood-Elves even less that other factions, except the Elves of the high north, I believe …

—  Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius  and a lot of courage  to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

I'm not sure how it was handled in the 3rd edition, but nowadays the publications clearly state that the elves (and everybody else for that matter) believe in gods, because it would be foolish not to.

As I said, the gods are an observable force and everybody knows that they do indeed exist, and no one would deny their existence.
Everybody can see the forces that a priest can conjur (through liturgies and miracles), and sorcerers (which all elves naturally are) can determine through the use of magic that what priests are conjuring is indeed not magic. So what else could it be?
And then of course the gods (seldomly) actively intervene in worldly affairs, for everybody to see.

Then there are the countless divine artifacts on Ethra (in Aventuria we know most of them). Many of them clearly too powerful to be of magical origin:
- Rondra's chariot Thunderstorm, drawn by four immortal steeds and still disappearing during every thunderstorm, only to reappear afterwards, dripping and glowing.
- Praios' Eternal Light, a floating globe of pure light.
- Hesinde's hopper, an alchemical instrument that can basically disassemble anything (anything yo can fit into it, that is) into its basic chemical elements.
- Travia's Holy Cauldron which can feed a huge ammount of people from basically nothing.
- The list is endless…

And of course the gods play an important role in the history and the lore of the elves.

Etc.

There are just too many obvious facts, that undoubtedly proove the existence of the gods, to be able to deny their existence.

The Elves just chose not to worship any gods anymore (partly because of the bad experiences the high elves had with the worship of their gods - I would have to look that up to get into more detail).