Have you ever asked yourself, “Self … why do churches today look more like the lingerie department at Wal-Mart, than a battalion of men poised to plunder the powers of darkness?” Why do men avoid going to church, and what can be done about it?

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Gary Cooper on April 23, 2004 at 11:28 am

John David Payne,

That article was great! So much of what he said could have been said of the LDS church, too. I for one am tired of the mamby-pamby attitude that seems to come across every Sunday. How about some Gospel ACTION! How about getting up and cleaning up our communities, saving the Constitution and the Republic, lifting the downtrodden, etc.! (We might find a lot more converts this way, also.)

Kristine on April 23, 2004 at 11:59 am

Yeah, Jesus must have been kidding when he said the meek shall inherit the earth. That whole Sermon on the Mount? Probably the invention of namby-pamby revisionists, dontcha think?

Kristine: I am assuming, of course, that you dismiss Nephi and the bow, the Armies of Helamen, Ammon at the Waters of Sebus, Christ in the temple with the whip, and other testosterone filled scriptural imagry as simply an unfortunate vestige of ancient patriarchy, easily dismissed as devoid of any real spiritual content ;->

Frank McIntyre on April 23, 2004 at 12:11 pm

Kristine: Meek does not equal “namby-pamby”. These are two different things.

The Sermon on the Mount is nothing if not strong-willed and decisive, almost the opposite of a namby-pamby sermon. “Be ye therefore perfect” is hardly a church therapy session. The admonitions to “love your enemy” and “turn the other cheek” are couched as a challenge that we should do more and be better than we’ve ever been. The marines would be proud…

Hey, no fair. BCC received two mentions of their posts. I think they’re slowly taking over the blogernackle.

Kristine on April 23, 2004 at 12:22 pm

Nate, I hope the smiley face at the end means you don’t really think I’d be so glib. Actually, I think that the predominance of females in the pews is a problem for lots of churches, including ours. However, I don’t think it has anything to do with too “feminine” a message being preached from the pulpit.

You’ll think I’m kidding, but the one point I sort of agree with that yahoo on is that we ought to change the music that we do to less wimpy songs–lots more “Praise to the Lord, the Almighty” and lots less “Because I Have Been Given Much” and “Where Can I Turn for Peace?” And we need real organs with real bass pipes (and NOT just for their Freudian symbolism ;) ).

Kristine on April 23, 2004 at 12:23 pm

Heh, heh–all your blogs are belong to me!!

Kaimi on April 23, 2004 at 12:27 pm

And Kristine reveals herself as a techno-nerd. Awesome — you’ve just become a lot cooler in my eyes.

I’ll tell you one thing. This guy never went to my parents’ ward in Texas. Our old bishop was a card-carrying NRA member and held skeet-shooting activities. One of the other men in the ward used to be a professional boxer and he has the young men over to box in his ring all the time. Testosterone all over the place.

Seriously, though, the thing I like about this article is the call to service. I think it’s also interesting that he pairs this idea with the rejection of ‘church-as-therapy.’ This, I think, is an interesting variation on ‘whosoever loseth his life for my sake shall find it,’ ie., we help ourselves by helping others.

(Moderators, if this is over the line, my apologies. Looked for Nate’s address so I could ask if it’s okay to do this, but couldn’t find it.)

Kaimi on April 23, 2004 at 1:30 pm

I think it’s probably fine.

Of course, I’ve got to warn you, we’re an “Operation Give” outfit around here — check the sidebar — and I have to be a little suspicious about any “rival” Iraq charities. :)

Gary Cooper on April 23, 2004 at 1:33 pm

Kristine, Kristine, Kristine,

I leave for a few minutes, and look what has happened! I think Nathan et al. have pretty well responded to your little jab at my thread. I would just add that Captain Moroni (one of my heroes, along with George Washington, Taylor Caldwell, Mother Theresa, and Joseph Smith) was the type of man we could emulate, in that he gloried in the fact that he knew God would warn his people to flee, or motivate them to fight, according to the danger they were in. Our sacrament meetings and songs do often seem like therapy. That’s appropriate often, but sometimes we need to do as Jacob and bear down with the word of God and tell ourselves to get off our comfortable duffs and do soemthing with the Gospel. Meekness isn’t weakness; meekness is humility before God, treating our fellow men and women as true equals and as brothers and sisters, and boldly combatting Satan and evil wherever we find it.

“I hope the smiley face at the end means you don’t really think I’d be so glib.”

Kristine: Of course not. On the other hand, your intitial response seemed just a wee bit glib and knee-jerk. ;->

Kristine on April 23, 2004 at 2:12 pm

Well, my knees are a bit jerk-prone. I’m working on it.

Rob on April 23, 2004 at 8:33 pm

I was thinking about this today, about how much fun the mission was, when the wards in Ecuador seemed like they were just barely getting by. Or my branch in DC in the mid 90s–how the gospel could really shine in situations where the structure of the Church wasn’t over-powering. Once we get a full-blown ward, it can become too much about keeping the structure going…and that’s really hard to get too excited about.

The bespectacled, slightly pudgy Dilbertesque Ward Clerk Mormon stereo-type has got to go. We need more facial hair…more hair in general…more time spent re-roofing homes for widows and less time snoring through lessons.

However, one obstacle that I see is that as we accept the independence fetish of neocapitalism, and go off to our separate jobs each day, what we’ve really become is divided and conquered. Our ward conference was this past sunday, and the Stake Presidency member who spoke in our quorum likened the quorum to a pioneer wagon company–a band of brothers to get us through the spiritual wasteland of contemporary America. We could quibble about the metaphor, but there was something good there. However, if we all just leave church on Sunday to go our separate ways, we’re really not getting the power that we could have as quorums or RS groups.

So, do we need more quorum scrabble parties, or should we chose some ambitious community service goals and go to town. Roll up our sleeves and get to work…or just head off to our jobs each week.

We need fewer church programs for their own sake, and our sake, and more projects focused on building Zion.

I think we’re being meeting-ed to death. Too much administering, not enough ministering (to repeat a cliche). The first presidency sent out a message about this five years ago or so, telling us all to cut out unnecessary meetings. Everyone seems to have decided that the meeting that they personally were in charge of was necessary. Myself, I have chosen to sustain the first presidency by boycotting all meetings outside of the three-hour bloc. And FHE, because it’s my calling to be the group co-leader.