News Buzzard wrote:So the $800 bag of water, the $50 Aspirin and the $1 thousand ambulance ride is OK with you folks? You think that's acceptable?

Now we are all aware of what our fundamental differences are. You folks don't seem to mind when people get gouged, and I do. That's why I back the Democrats !

I didn't see where any of us said that. I think those prices ARE ridiculous. HOWEVER, Obamacare has done nothing to correct those prices. That is what Outer said if you had bothered to read his post. Read his last sentence again: "Obamacare has done nothing to control the overall cost of healthcare, it just changes who is paying for it".

BTW...the 1%ers don't pay for much of any thing , it's you & I, the middle class, who pay for it all, including the trips to the ER by people who aren't insured. The only solution/remedy is single payer and elimination of the vulture insurance companies. Why in the world do we pay an insurance company for our healthcare???

News Pigeon wrote:BTW...the 1%ers don't pay for much of any thing , it's you & I, the middle class, who pay for it all, including the trips to the ER by people who aren't insured. The only solution/remedy is single payer and elimination of the vulture insurance companies. Why in the world do we pay an insurance company for our healthcare???

That's right, and the free visits to the ER are paid for by all of us through taxes. I find it interesting that a guy like Outerlimits does not renounce such overt gouging in the healthcare field, but yet he continually criticizes the union slugs who are working to protect us, keep our streets clear of snow, and teach our kids. Outerlimits thinks it's OK for a hospital to charge $5 thousand for a routine ER visit, but God forbid that the local teacher gets health insurance from the school district that employs him or her. We all know where Outerlimits is coming from, and he's definitely not with the Middle Class or poor, but that's OK because the Republicans can't muster up anyone except nitwits to run against Hillary in 2016 !

News Pigeon wrote:BTW...the 1%ers don't pay for much of any thing , it's you & I, the middle class, who pay for it all, including the trips to the ER by people who aren't insured. The only solution/remedy is single payer and elimination of the vulture insurance companies. Why in the world do we pay an insurance company for our healthcare???

That's right, and the free visits to the ER are paid for by all of us through taxes. I find it interesting that a guy like Outerlimits does not renounce such overt gouging in the healthcare field, but yet he continually criticizes the union slugs who are working to protect us, keep our streets clear of snow, and teach our kids. Outerlimits thinks it's OK for a hospital to charge $5 thousand for a routine ER visit, but God forbid that the local teacher gets health insurance from the school district that employs him or her. We all know where Outerlimits is coming from, and he's definitely not with the Middle Class or poor, but that's OK because the Republicans can't muster up anyone except nitwits to run against Hillary in 2016 !

Yep...and the nitwits are getting even crazier, Eric Cantor just lost to an even more extreme Tea-bagger today....

WHL wrote:You are wrong NP. The middle class does not pay for as much as the 1%ers. Unless you define middle class as those making over $250,000.

Better check your facts again.... The wealthy have their ways to avoid higher taxes, thanks to their own political power, which arises in large part from their economic power. Add to this the fact that most politicians are a step above middle class and will generally protect themselves, and it's easy to imagine that the rich will never be made to pay too much, even in a democracy. In fact, at the moment some minimum wage workers pay a higher tax rate than some of the wealthiest people in this country, thanks to various laws and tax loopholes

WHL wrote:You are wrong NP. The middle class does not pay for as much as the 1%ers. Unless you define middle class as those making over $250,000.

Better check your facts again.... The wealthy have their ways to avoid higher taxes, thanks to their own political power, which arises in large part from their economic power. Add to this the fact that most politicians are a step above middle class and will generally protect themselves, and it's easy to imagine that the rich will never be made to pay too much, even in a democracy. In fact, at the moment some minimum wage workers pay a higher tax rate than some of the wealthiest people in this country, thanks to various laws and tax loopholes

Most of the people who employee workers (small business people) do not get away with all those loopholes you talk about. They are not getting dividends and interest like Warren Buffett so pay less. You are right that the Warren Buffetts and GEs of the world get away with murder as far as paying taxes but the wealth creators of this country pay through the nose. When you make ordinary income you pay. Period.

So why do we let the Warren Buffets and the GEs get away with that? It's an extraordinary amount of money that is much needed. The Republicans filibustered the bill to create 27 new VA centers back in February because they said it was too much money, and yet we give massive amounts of money away to the very wealthy?

Remember this also. If the small business is getting hammered in taxes then they're making a lot of money, and by default you're telling me that things aren't so bad after all.

WHL wrote:Most of the people who employee workers (small business people) do not get away with all those loopholes you talk about. They are not getting dividends and interest like Warren Buffett so pay less. You are right that the Warren Buffetts and GEs of the world get away with murder as far as paying taxes but the wealth creators of this country pay through the nose. When you make ordinary income you pay. Period.

Exactly, so my question is why would you vote for congressional leaders who promote this practice? The TEA party is at the front and center of this movement...their mantra is give all the tax breaks to the 1% and let the middle class pay for it all. Someone has to pay for the commons we enjoy in our country, who doesn't think it should be shared by all who use them?Something is very wrong when we give corporations $92 billion in subsidies and then bitch because we have to subsidize the average wage earner...which BTW is less than we give to corps.

Last edited by News Pigeon on Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total

News Buzzard wrote:That's right, and the free visits to the ER are paid for by all of us through taxes. I find it interesting that a guy like Outerlimits does not renounce such overt gouging in the healthcare field...]Outerlimits[/b] thinks it's OK for a hospital to charge $5 thousand for a routine ER visit...

Once again…

You are mistaken.

Free visits to the ER are paid for by private insurance and private payers through higher insurance premiums and 5K ER visits by private payers.

The government does not reimburse hospitals and care-givers for people that can’t or won’t pay their medical bills. Not only do hospital and caregivers need to make up for “free visits”, healthcare providers also have to make up for the losses from Medicaid and Medicare. The Federal Government is by far the largest consumer of healthcare. The reimbursement rates to providers for Medicare/Medicaid do not cover the cost of care and the losses suffered must be made up elsewhere.

WHL wrote:Most of the people who employee workers (small business people) do not get away with all those loopholes you talk about. They are not getting dividends and interest like Warren Buffett so pay less. You are right that the Warren Buffetts and GEs of the world get away with murder as far as paying taxes but the wealth creators of this country pay through the nose. When you make ordinary income you pay. Period.

Exactly, so my question is why would you vote for congressional leaders who promote this practice? The TEA party is at the front and center of this movement...their mantra is give all the tax breaks to the 1% and let the middle class pay for it all. Someone has to pay for the commons we enjoy in our country, who doesn't think it should be shared by all who use them?Something is very wrong when we give corporations $92 billion in subsidies and then bitch because we have to subsidize the average wage earner...which BTW is less than we give to corps.

I agree with you that there should be no special interests, but you are wrong in saying that the Tea Party is at the front and center of all this. A flat tax with no breaks would solve it all. And BTW, the guy who heads GE is Obama's buddy.

News Pigeon wrote: The TEA party is at the front and center of this movement...their mantra is give all the tax breaks to the 1% and let the middle class pay for it all. Someone has to pay for the commons we enjoy in our country, who doesn't think it should be shared by all who use them?

You clearly have no Idea what the Tea Party stands for.

News Pigeon wrote:Something is very wrong when we give corporations $92 billion in subsidies and then bitch because we have to subsidize the average wage earner...which BTW is less than we give to corps.

Then you should at least half agree with the Tea Party. The Tea Party is strongly against subsidies and handouts to corporations and individuals.

Outerlimits wrote:The cost of Tylenol remains the same no matter who pays.

No it doesn't! You just said that hospital costs are extravagant because of all the people who have no coverage and don't pay, so if everyone has coverage then the hospital costs go down. You're advocating for the return to the same screwed up system of haves and have nots, so I guess as long as you're covered you don't really give a crap about those who are not. There are millions of Americans who can't afford health insurance, because of that $75 Tylenol and all of the other obscene hospital costs, and if they get sick with cancer they're screwed with a personal bankruptcy. The system will level itself out if everyone gets covered.

We have about 16 million people who just got health insurance because of Obamacare, and on what planet do you think that's going to get repealed ?

The TOTAL COST of healthcare services does not change under Obamacare or Single Payer and I find it hard to believe you can’t grasp that very simple concept. You appear to be deliberately trying to confuse the facts.

Changing the payer source does not lower costs, it only changes who pays the bill. Obamacare shifts healthcare costs to the taxpayer and unsubsidized working people.

If you purchase 100 hotdogs at a $1 each, it doesn’t matter if 1 person pays $100.00 or 100 people pay $1 each. The cost of the hotdogs are still $100.00.

Thus the total COST remains the same.

The left tried to sell this as lowering the costs of healthcare. Obamacare does no such thing. It simply redistributes the costs.

You are the one who is twisting the facts, Outerlimits, and I'm not surprised. You can buy a bottle of Tylenol, 100 capsules, for $10, and a hospital will charge you $75 for 1 pill ! Are you trying to tell me that that is a reasonable markup? You must be in the healthcare industry!

Of course everyone will pay toward a single payer system, but we're all paying for it now through higher insurance premiums and higher taxes for public employee's insurance premiums. You're telling me that I'm skewing the facts, but I'm the guy who is saying that 75 bucks is too much to charge for 1 Tylenol pill and you're the guy who is justifying the charge. Are you kidding me?

News Pigeon wrote: The TEA party is at the front and center of this movement...their mantra is give all the tax breaks to the 1% and let the middle class pay for it all. Someone has to pay for the commons we enjoy in our country, who doesn't think it should be shared by all who use them?

The Tea Party doesn't want to pay for all of Bush's disastrous forays, including 2 unnecessary and expensive wars, totally irresponsible tax cuts while we were fighting those wars, and a completely disastrous management of our economy which resulted in a near Depression. The Tea Party would rather point the finger at Obama and say it was all his fault.

Once the members of the Tea Party find out that their representatives are gunning for their benefits, like Social Security and Medicare, they will wake up. There is nothing like taking money from a man's pocket to wake him up.

News Pigeon wrote: The TEA party is at the front and center of this movement...their mantra is give all the tax breaks to the 1% and let the middle class pay for it all. Someone has to pay for the commons we enjoy in our country, who doesn't think it should be shared by all who use them?

You clearly have no Idea what the Tea Party stands for.

You are right, Outer. She clearly has no idea.

Then if I'm so wrong, perhaps you could tell me why the TEA party takes it's "marching orders" from the Koch Brothers?And pls explain how this doesn't effect you & I...No one knows how much the Kochs have given ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council) in total, but the amount likely exceeds $1 million—not including a half-million loaned to ALEC when the group was floundering. ALEC gave the Kochs its Adam Smith Free Enterprise Award, and Koch Industries has been one of the select members of ALEC’s corporate board for almost twenty years. The company’s top lobbyist was once ALEC’s chairman. As a result, the Kochs have shaped legislation touching every state in the country. Like ideological venture capitalists, the Kochs have used ALEC as a way to invest in radical ideas and fertilize them with tons of cash.

Take environmental protections. The Kochs have a penchant for paying their way out of serious violations and coming out ahead. Helped by Koch Industries’ lobbying efforts, one of the first measures George W. Bush signed into law as governor of Texas was an ALEC model bill giving corporations immunity from penalties if they tell regulators about their own violation of environmental rules. Dozens of other ALEC bills would limit environmental regulations or litigation in ways that would benefit Koch.

You do know about ALEC, right?Through the corporate-funded American Legislative Exchange Council, global corporations and state politicians vote behind closed doors to try to rewrite state laws that govern your rights. These so-called "model bills" reach into almost every area of American life and often directly benefit huge corporations (the ones, that you agree, shouldn't get subsidies).

No, I'm afraid you're the ones who don't understand what the TEA party is all about but then again, I don't think many the "members" do. The Koch Bros have completely used you all for their bottom line and you have no idea it's happening to you or what you're ultimately promoting under the guise of "patriotism" and "fiscal responsibility"...you've been completely duped by the very people who would take away every one of your "rights" & subsidies like SS, Medicare etc...and they've very cleverly done it all by dividing the people into opposing sides.

If you really knew anything about the Tea Party or spent any time with a person with Tea Party beliefs, you would know they don’t take it marching orders from anyone.

Financial contributors do not and cannot control a decentralized movement that purposefully does not have a leader. It you really knew anything about the Tea Party you wouldn’t know they aren’t a bunch or red-neck hicks as you try to make them out to be. Your callus superiority complexes aside; most Tea Party members completely understand what they are supporting and they are not puppets. They don’t need political strategists and talking points to give them “marching orders”. If you really knew the difference between little” r” republican and big “R” Republican, you would know the Tea Party is not for government subsidies to corporations.

But you clearly stated otherwise.

You are either completely ignorant on the subject, or you are deliberately trying to mislead.