Active introvert:It's all relative. If they start school later then they would go to bed later thus getting the same amount of sleep. Why don't the parents take the phones, turn of the Xbox and computer and tell the little whiners to STFU and go to bed.Life sucks. get use to doing things you don't want to do.

Because, as you would know if you took the time to do a ten-minute Google search on the topic, teenagers are hardwired to sleep from eleven PM to about eight or so AM. And yes, it is in fact biological.

/Seriously, I knew this in high school, it's not like this is breaking news.

Summercat:Counter_Intelligent: ITT: Old, bitter geezers who won't entertain a possibly better solution to a problem simply because they had to suffer when they were young. A shame you can't all die already.

Some of them are my age, and highschool was just 10 years ago for me D:

/I don't think I'm liked by my school, nothing coming up about Reunion has been mentioned to me.

//Good, because I didn't like most of the people there.

I'm in the same boat, but I think it's because I'm not on facebook. I bet that's where all the planning goes on.

Bullshiat. Stop farking around on the internet and playing video games and shiat so you can get to sleep earlier. Get up, go to school, do your homework and stop biatching.

Adults constantly making excuses for kids like this is the reason why it's close to impossible to find anyone under 30 years old to work for you that doesn't act like a spoiled little biatch or is a complete farking moron.

Bull. That's a sign you don't do enough during a day. It's easy as hell to reset your clock so long as you don't waste your day guzzling dew and sitting on your ass.

I can do plenty during the day. If anything i get re-energized around 10pm and im still up and about for a few hours. Restless. I get creative at night. I can pound out pages of writing at 1am where during the day i had writers block. Some people thrive on the night.

I dont like the idea that i have to mash my body functions into some unhealthy schedule when it makes me feel like crap? You have to know what you can do wand what you cant do in life. If you cant run your body on someone else's schedule then dont. Do whats healthy for you and what makes you feel productive. Some times you gotta cut a hard path.

you can fight your sleep pattern or you can fight your schedule. You can change your schedule but changing your sleep pattern is really tough for some people and it rocks your body with cortisol and other stress hormones. That shiat will age you inside and out.

There are a few people (hi) who did better in the Period 1 and 0 classes, but I've *always* been at my best about 30 to 45 minutes after I wake up. This is weird and unusual.

But even today, I cannot 'make' myself go to sleep (without a heavy infusion of alcoholism). I do nto sleep until my body is exhausted, and even then my brain likes to go full speed.

Just laying in bed with teh covers on and the lights off has always meant I lay there bored out of my gourd for hours, and I've slapped myself for suggesting it to my cousin (He's 18/19 now).

I've always found the best way to fall asleep is to turn on some kind of TV or movie. It's gotta be something you've seen before. I've got Futurama, The Simpsons, and American Dad on a playlist on my laptop and just set it to play. I've seen every episode, but it gives my brain something to focus on without having to actually stay alert because I've already seen it. Just install a sleep timer so your computer will turn off (or use the one on the TV). I'm usually out within 10-20 minutes and have to fight if I want to stay up and watch the episode. Whereas it can take a couple hours if I'm just sitting in silence.

ds615:pedrop357: We have people who have no problem keeping 18-20 year olds from buying alcohol and denying people under 18 the ability to make some of the most basic decisions, all based on neurology or some study related to it

No, it's not biology or neurology. It's because kids are stupid.This is the same. Get your butt out of bed like everyone before you did. You're not doing poorly because you're tired, you fail because you're dumb.

\school started at 06:30.\\Work starts at 05:30.\\\You'll get over it.

PsiChick:Active introvert: It's all relative. If they start school later then they would go to bed later thus getting the same amount of sleep. Why don't the parents take the phones, turn of the Xbox and computer and tell the little whiners to STFU and go to bed.Life sucks. get use to doing things you don't want to do.

Because, as you would know if you took the time to do a ten-minute Google search on the topic, teenagers are hardwired to sleep from eleven PM to about eight or so AM. And yes, it is in fact biological.

/Seriously, I knew this in high school, it's not like this is breaking news.

Sorry, I work nights. I'm sure a ten minute Google search will tell you how much biology I'm fighting. I do it because I have to so I can keep my job. My boss doesn't ask me if I'm tired. If I don't get my work done I can't tell him that my biological rhythms are off. Why should teens get a pass? My point is that in life, we have to do things that are unpleasant to get what we want

Schools commonly wonder why kids tend to sleep through first period when they start the school day at 7;15, forcing the bus to pick them up at six prompt, forcing them to wake up at 5:30 when there's still stars out, expecting them to start to bed at 7:30 when the sun's still up.

/When I was a kid, we woke up the previous night, after going to bed the previous day, and today, no one believes it.// Then our father cut us in two with the breadknife.

I live in Australia and our school days have always started at 9am. I agree 7:15 is just bloody stupid. If that is true it needs to change, but if not and they start at 9am I would look towards making sure you rid your children's sleep areas of any electronic and communication devices when it is bed time.

I use to leave for work at 5:30 am. I felt terrible for the kids I saw waiting for the bus when I would be leaving the neighborhood. Of course it doesnt help that some of these kids have to endure 1-2 hour bus rides thanks to forced desegregation.

Active introvert:Sorry, I work nights. I'm sure a ten minute Google search will tell you how much biology I'm fighting. I do it because I have to so I can keep my job. My boss doesn't ask me if I'm tired. If I don't get my work done I can't tell him that my biological rhythms are off. Why should teens get a pass? My point is that in life, we have to do things that are unpleasant to get what we want

Yeah -- you can do it so everybody should have to otherwise they must be some sort of puss.

You work nights -- could you LIVE on the night shift. Like every day? And not by choice? We have to do unpleasant things to get what we want sure -- but I dont think having to walk around like i have a mental handicap for half a day is ultimately going to let me thrive at anything i choose to do.

mikefinch:Guest: How about no televisions, computers, video games in their bedroom and when it is bed time all phones handed in.

k -- but when i was a kid i was on a rural farm with no computers video games and a rotary phone and a television i was only allowed to watch for 1 hour a day.

I didnt do enough during the day? I was playing football and sweeping grain bins and going on walks in the woods with my dog.

Its not always technology.

A lot of the time it is and you put a child in a boring bedroom with nothing to do but read a book many well, despite protests that this will never work, many will be a sleep 30 to 45 minutes later. Also if they don't sleep they are still resting. As a parent I know and I believe most parents know the excuses of not being tired and I can't sleep don't really pan out when you take away the things that are stimulating children and teens.

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist:I'm tired right now, and yet, if I got into bed and filled the room with soothing white noise, I would not fall asleep until my body said "Yep, you're exhausted now. Godspeed." I'm not a person who can just "go to sleep earlier." It's mind-blowing to me that other people can do that on any level. My body sleeps when it wants to, be it at two in the afternoon or four in the morning.

When did this nonsense start? I graduated in 1978. All the way through elementary and high school, classes started at 9 a.m. Most of us were reasonably awake at that time of day. What moron thought 7:30 a.m. would be a good idea?

bingethinker:When did this nonsense start? I graduated in 1978. All the way through elementary and high school, classes started at 9 a.m. Most of us were reasonably awake at that time of day. What moron thought 7:30 a.m. would be a good idea?

The moron who has to get elementary, middle, and high school students all to their respective schools with a single set of school buses (and doesn't want to buy more buses).

jshine:bingethinker: When did this nonsense start? I graduated in 1978. All the way through elementary and high school, classes started at 9 a.m. Most of us were reasonably awake at that time of day. What moron thought 7:30 a.m. would be a good idea?

The moron who has to get elementary, middle, and high school students all to their respective schools with a single set of school buses (and doesn't want to buy more buses).

This. Getting 12,000 kids to school isn't easy. It's a lot easier when you can make it into 3 seperate waves.

/Even with student drivers, parents driving kids in (because the 6:15 pickup time was stupid), walkers (and the walk radius was a mile and a half in a 6x6 district with 3 high schools), and after school activities, my middle school had 8 buses and my high school had 10.

From the studies that I can remember reading (and plenty of anecdotal evidence), that's exactly how it should be. Based on all kinds of neurological development stuff it's much easier for young children to wake up early and be alert than it is for teenagers.

This is probably true.Now convince Mom to do the work to make this happen.

What extra work would there really be though? Parents would have to do the same things to get their kids ready in the morning whether it's at 7 AM or 9 AM. It might be a bit of a hassle to have to deal with it two hours earlier all of a sudden, but they would have to deal with it when the kids get older and have to leave earlier anyway, and then it will be much harder since teenagers generally aren't morning people.

Also, I would think it would make better sense for households where both parents work. They could make sure that their younger kids get to school alright before they have to leave for work.

jshine:bingethinker: When did this nonsense start? I graduated in 1978. All the way through elementary and high school, classes started at 9 a.m. Most of us were reasonably awake at that time of day. What moron thought 7:30 a.m. would be a good idea?

The moron who has to get elementary, middle, and high school students all to their respective schools with a single set of school buses (and doesn't want to buy more buses).

Maybe invert them. All the little kids who don't seem to mind getting up early go at 6:30, then the middle school at 7:30, followed by the high school at 8:30

The reason high school starts at 7:30 and elementary school starts at 9 is because of child care issues, hands down. They want the elementary kids to go to school and come home within Mom/Dad's work times and older sister/brother's school times so they don't have to pay for child care. I haven't heard of any other reason that high schoolers shouldn't get the early slot when research is bearing out doing so other than child care timing problems.

/I hate children below the age of 12//I kinda hate them above the age of 12, too///Even hate my own kids at times, yes

Article: Because of differences in sleep patterns for teenagers, they perform measurably better academically with a slightly later start time.

Foamies: AAAAH!!! Feckin teens! If I have to get up at 5:00 am to make the donuts, then so should they. 5 am start time for those lazy feckers!!! RRAAAAH!!

Willing to bet that most of those who are so vehemently opposed to teens starting their first class at 9 or 10am are in their twenties. Most people who've actually been adults for a few years would tend towards the attitude of "As long as I don't have to pay more for it, what the hell do I care what time they start their classes".

Despair of the Cheese:The reason high school starts at 7:30 and elementary school starts at 9 is because of child care issues, hands down. They want the elementary kids to go to school and come home within Mom/Dad's work times and older sister/brother's school times so they don't have to pay for child care. I haven't heard of any other reason that high schoolers shouldn't get the early slot when research is bearing out doing so other than child care timing problems.

/I hate children below the age of 12//I kinda hate them above the age of 12, too///Even hate my own kids at times, yes

Meh. I don't actually know that many families that have a child in high school and another child in elementary school. Yes, for sure there are some, but most families I know have 1 or 2 kids and the ones with 2 kids are only a few years apart (and they don't need the high schooler to babysit the middle schooler).

I think the bus schedule is the more common reason (There are some states that try to save money by having the same bus pick up and drop off the older kids first and then go back for the elementary school kids). The states I've lived in used different busses, so they didn't have to stagger schedules like this. My own earliest bus schedule was for middle school, but only because I was bussed far away for a math program. For my own kids, their elementary schedule sucked (they had to catch the bus at 7am), because the school district is too cheap to run a sufficient number of busses (their school started at a reasonable time, but the bus drove all over creation picking up kids). We're home schooling for now though. More work for the wife, but it's worked out about 1000 times better than public school nonsense.

Local government schools changed their schedules to have high school start and finish later a few years ago. The problem was the middle schools were now letting out earlier than high schools, and those kids didn't have older brothers & sisters to watch them. Schools had to go back to the early high school schedule because too many middle school girls were getting knocked.

Lsherm:meanmutton: Bedstead Polisher: Can I start work an hour and a half later too? I also need my sleep.

Does your job start at 7:00? My high school certainly did.

So did mine. Mine was Catholic, so the bus routes were earlier so the public school kids could start later. No one complained.

You didn't complain? Bullshiat.

My school, catholic as well, started at 0800. The bus was at 0645, on the dot. So, up at 0600 at the latest, all so they had that extra hour ( my stop was second to last) to drop off the public school kids and then us at the high school.

Waiting around for an extra hour? You bet your ass we complained.

Then again, I complain about the inefficiency of many early morning rituals. One rotation I was on in med school demanded you be there, on the floor and ready to see patients, at 0600. The lab didn't even come by until 0800 for morning blood work, and you really couldn't do shiat until 0800. Still, because someone decided on 0600, 0600 it was. Idiotic.

bingethinker:When did this nonsense start? I graduated in 1978. All the way through elementary and high school, classes started at 9 a.m. Most of us were reasonably awake at that time of day. What moron thought 7:30 a.m. would be a good idea?

Sword and Shield:Lsherm: meanmutton: Bedstead Polisher: Can I start work an hour and a half later too? I also need my sleep.

Does your job start at 7:00? My high school certainly did.

So did mine. Mine was Catholic, so the bus routes were earlier so the public school kids could start later. No one complained.

You didn't complain? Bullshiat.

My school, catholic as well, started at 0800. The bus was at 0645, on the dot. So, up at 0600 at the latest, all so they had that extra hour ( my stop was second to last) to drop off the public school kids and then us at the high school.

Waiting around for an extra hour? You bet your ass we complained.

Then again, I complain about the inefficiency of many early morning rituals. One rotation I was on in med school demanded you be there, on the floor and ready to see patients, at 0600. The lab didn't even come by until 0800 for morning blood work, and you really couldn't do shiat until 0800. Still, because someone decided on 0600, 0600 it was. Idiotic.

Well if my bus route was done up all stupid ass like yours, I'd complain too. Our bus picked up all the Catholic school kids and dropped them off, then ran another route for the public school because the public school started later. There was no overlap for the kids.

pedrop357:WTFDYW: Kiwimann: Classes should start at a reasonable time.

7:30 am is not reasonable.

7:30 will be a reasonable time for them to show up for work. If not earlier. Get used to it toots.

This may surprise you, but there are lot of jobs that don't start at 7:30am.

Also, our society has seen fit to to deny various rights and privileges to people under 18/21 based on questionable neurology studies. It's only fair and/or right that we allow them to wake up a little later based on those same studies.Unless those studies are bullshiat, in which case we may want to reexamine this idea of forbidding teens the option to leave school and pursue other interests just like adults can.

That last part... It hits close to home. The last few years I just notice more and more that school did not prepare me for my career and I was wasting time I could have used getting private instruction in areas that are germane. There are so many skills that traditional schools don't teach and which I now don't have as a result. It's depressing.

Despair of the Cheese:My oldest goes to a magnet high school that starts at 9 in the morning and ends at 4. She's much more cheerful about high school than she ever was about middle school, which started at 7:45 am. She does better with harder subjects and doesn't take naps when she comes home like she used to in middle school.

/yeah, yeah, a sample of one

I took naps all the time during High School and I was stressed as fark trying to keep my grades up.

Senior year was the WORST, up at 6am, came home at 2, took nap, worked until at least 10pm.

The problem is researchers need to spin this as helping parents and "preventing teenage mischief" with "less unsupervised afternoon hours".

My kids are fourth generation of parents who work nights. I work nights because it is more natural for me. My kids have screwed up circadian rhythms like I did. The daily school schedule is not natural for them and very difficult. Consequently they are often late to school or miss days. Of course the school has a problem with that.

My problem with school is; worry about their grades, not their attendance. Despite the missed class time both my kids got great grades and my oldest graduated H.S. a 1/2 year early.