Since I appreciate the tutors-are-counter-to-Commander's-spirit view, I still prefer Zegana Mk. II. On the other hand, I have to wonder if Sultai Elves & Co. is going to become A Thing in Standard, and/or even Modern.

Oh gods! I've played just enough Yisan to know Vannifar is going to be a problem. Not ready to go all Chicken Little just yet, but what is basically a Yisan deck + Blue cards is, at the very least, going to achieve house-ban status in a LOT of groups. Imma have to build her quick before my group figures out how disgusting she is.

Oh gods! I've played just enough Yisan to know Vannifar is going to be a problem. Not ready to go all Chicken Little just yet, but what is basically a Yisan deck + Blue cards is, at the very least, going to achieve house-ban status in a LOT of groups. Imma have to build her quick before my group figures out how disgusting she is. ;)

Yeah someone in my group already figured out a pretty gross combo with her (Intruder Alarm).

Well, Vannifar + Intruder Alarm is certainly an engine... what do you do with it?

_________________"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.

Well, Vannifar + Intruder Alarm is certainly an engine... what do you do with it?

With token generators + a good spread of mana costs, you put almost every creature in your deck into play in a single turn. With Eldrazi titans (or other graveyard shufflers) it's even easier, plus you can loop CITP/leaves play effects on any creature you have that way.

Well, Vannifar + Intruder Alarm is certainly an engine... what do you do with it?

With token generators + a good spread of mana costs, you put almost every creature in your deck into play in a single turn. With Eldrazi titans (or other graveyard shufflers) it's even easier, plus you can loop CITP/leaves play effects on any creature you have that way.

You don't even need a titan, something like Junktroller gets the job done since you already have intruder alarm.

With mana dorks, you can probably get to infinite (or nearly so - IoNS) mana. Something like Spike Tiller or Genju of the Cedars/Falls can repeatedly turn lands into creatures for your "0 CMC +1" chain-starter (as long as at least one creature in the chain is always searching lands ETB). Add in a Triskelion type and you now have IoNS damage. I'm sure there's more... just brainstorming.

Of course, intruder alarm already does most of that without the shiny new legend (e.g. Intruder Alarm, Shrieking drake and two+ mana dorks as long as one makes U).

Well, Vannifar + Intruder Alarm is certainly an engine... what do you do with it?

With token generators + a good spread of mana costs, you put almost every creature in your deck into play in a single turn. With Eldrazi titans (or other graveyard shufflers) it's even easier, plus you can loop CITP/leaves play effects on any creature you have that way.

Token generators seem largely irrelevant, unless you have a lot of 1-drops you want to fetch.

_________________"The President's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realize this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide tot he Galaxy Radio Transcripts predicting the future.

Well, Vannifar + Intruder Alarm is certainly an engine... what do you do with it?

With token generators + a good spread of mana costs, you put almost every creature in your deck into play in a single turn. With Eldrazi titans (or other graveyard shufflers) it's even easier, plus you can loop CITP/leaves play effects on any creature you have that way.

Token generators seem largely irrelevant, unless you have a lot of 1-drops you want to fetch.

The token generators are so you can restart the chain. If you simply go 1 -> 2 -> 3, etc. you eventually hit top end and have nothing left to get. The token generator creatures are so you go 1 -> 2 -> 3+0 -> 4+1 ... it lets you start pulling multiple cards out of the deck off a single starter. Without token generating creatures you never have more creatures than you started with. With token gen you can eventually have everything in your deck in play at once.