Monday, February 10, 2014

How do I know? I asked seven executives on Monday if their team would sign a baseball version of Sam, the reigning co-SEC Defensive Player of the Year from Missouri who told several news outlets Sunday that he was gay.

All seven went on the record. And all seven said yes.

The reaction of the baseball executives came in stark contrast to an SI.com report that quoted eight unnamed NFL decision-makers as saying Sam’s announcement would cause him to drop in the league’s upcoming draft.

“If the reports about his football ability and character are accurate, we would sign the baseball Michael Sam in a second and be a better organization for it,” Chicago Cubs president Theo Epstein said.

...Mark Shapiro, Cleveland Indians president: “When we assess talent acquisition, we factor in all variables relative to a player’s performance—tools, character, personality and medical risk are among the main areas of evaluation.

“Sexual orientation has not and never would be an area of consideration, and it certainly would not prevent us from acquiring a player we felt could help the team be in a better position to win a championship.”

Frank Coonelly, Pittsburgh Pirates president: “I cannot imagine that a baseball player’s sexual orientation would affect where he would be drafted in the baseball draft. Of course, I cannot speak for others, but I know for certain that the Pirates would make our draft decision based solely on whether we believed that the man could play.”

Derrick Hall, Arizona Diamondbacks president: “The Diamondbacks do not tolerate any form of discrimination and take pride in being an inclusive and accepting organization.”

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I've literally never heard a male friend or acquaintance worry that they're going gray, or are getting wrinkles, or has gained a few pounds, and will now be unattractive to women.

Most of my male friends don't openly worry about that, but can be sensitive about it. Amongst my core group of male friends we are acutely aware of those things and do regularly go to the gym and go through stages of really intense dieting.

Funny, I created a character in MLB: The Show who I imagined as an openly gay starting pitcher. I made his looks in such a way that attempted to be as appealing to other gay guys as possible and also as intimidating as possible to opposing batters, trying to throw off batters by making them think he might be flirting with them...

I worry about it. I gained some weight a while back and resolved to get rid of it. And, since a lot of you met me, I clearly did just that, heh.

But part of it is that I'm short and not all that traditionally masculine, so being fit and visibly so matters to my ability to initially attract (not so much keep, of course) partners.

(I've been in many many locker rooms with gay men before. The only one who ever made anyone uncomfortable was an out of shape dude who was clearly hanging out in there extra time. But anyone who came to work out? Who cares? I'd assume the same would be true of athletes. Do your job and you'll be embraced, and even have your butt slapped.)

I've literally never heard a male friend or acquaintance worry that they're going gray, or are getting wrinkles, or has gained a few pounds, and will now be unattractive to women.

I will add one caveat; losing your hair seems to be the one Achilles heel of male vanity.

I'm going gray early (started when I was probably 25-26) and I actually enjoy it. I used to work with a guy who dyed his hair...very strange.
I actually wouldn't have a problem with baldness...though it's easy for me to say as it doesn't appear to be happening to me, and hasn't happened for anyone in my family going back a couple generations. But especially in this day and age I think it's not a big deal where shaved heads are fairly common. My brother has shaved his head since he was a teen, if he was going bald it wouldn't effect his appearance at all.

Unfortunately, I do worry about my weight, probably more than is necessary. I dated a girl for a long time who was obsessed with her weight (and not coincidentally spent a lot of time vocally worrying about mine), which has annoyingly rubbed off.

I suspect it's one of those things that changes over time. I would guess that culturally we are moving towards more and more men grounding their self esteem in appearance.

I will add that although I have managed to lose some real pounds, my goal has been fitness above all, so I measure it by how I do in my races. I was always a really bad athlete and ridiculed amongst other young men and boys because of it.

And so, throw this all together with the added issue that black men are even more prized for their bodies, and yeah, I think about it. I am not obsessed or unhealthy about it though.

But yes, I am a straight man, and I pay attention to my appearance. (I wouldn't care if I got wrinkles or went gray, I don't think. I would, however, prefer to go bald after meeting a life partner, ha. And I WILL go bald, someday.)

I was involved in this same conversation in the Castro in around 1998. The gay men laughed at this sentiment by the straighy boys. ;-)

I have the gay confirmed (I have been told this) ability to throw off gaydar. Not the superpower I would have chosen, but there you go. Plus I think that being a short fit guy appeals to a certain class of gay guy (just guess on my part). And it was not just being hit on, when I was a bartender I was the one the gay guys (from out of town) asked where the local gay bars were. This was the 90s and it was a bit harder to find such a thing. I asked my co-workers if they were asked and basically it was never, but I got asked all the time. And hey it got me some nice tips so totally worth it.

Losing my hair never bothered me. I keep it cut close* and am blessed with a reasonably attractive skull. Gaining weight would bother me, but only because it is something I can control (OK not entirely, but there you go).

But yes I think society is such that women are getting a bit less body image centric and men are getting much more so (at least openly).

* When you are short there is zero hope of pretending you are not losing your hair. I think trying to cover it up is dumb for everyone, but for a short guy, just shave it down and move on with your life.

I have the gay confirmed (I have been told this) ability to throw off gaydar. Not the superpower I would have chosen, but there you go. Plus I think that being a short fit guy appeals to a certain class of gay guy (just guess on my part).

Straight women care about a man's height much more than gay men do.

One of many reasons that there is no straight analogue to a gay man watching Men's Gymnastics at the Olympics. None of them are taller than about 5'7" but who cares?! OMG.

The only co-ed sport I participated in competitively in High School was track and...there were a lot of erections involved. My peers who went on to compete in Track at the collegiate level, to a man and woman, say the same thing went on there as well.

Really? During meets or practice? Or in the downtime while stretching or changing or just chilling?

Really? During meets or practice? Or in the downtime while stretching or changing or just chilling?

Pretty much all the time. I want to say it happened more so during practice, but then meets have the added dimension of people of the opposite sex that you don't see every day. Then you factor whether or not the women on the opposing teams go with track shorts or the tights. There was a lot going on. Disregarding the track part, I know that anecdotally, I feel my most virile during/immediately after my workouts or while watching my fiancee workout, which is why I try to workout with her as much as possible.

Yikes NJ, that boggles my mind. I was a competitive swimmer for several years which literally involves prancing around in a Speedo alongside both men and women in similar attire and I don't think I ever detected that sort of rampant turgidity.

You were also the only guy who looked like he could run 3 miles without dying.

Yeah, but I have such poor peripheral vision (hereditary glaucoma; under control and pretty much permanently stabilized by eyedrops) that I really can't run and catch a ball at the same time lest I fear crashing into something or someone.

This, which I only learned about recently, pretty much explains why I was always so bad at team sports. And driving.

Yikes NJ, that boggles my mind. I was a competitive swimmer for several years which literally involves prancing around in a Speedo alongside both men and women in similar attire and I don't think I ever detected that sort of rampant turgidity.

Disregarding the track part, I know that anecdotally, I feel my most virile during/immediately after my workouts or while watching my fiancee workout, which is why I try to workout with her as much as possible.

This is why I workout with you too.

I've had and continue to have a lot of track & field experience, and have not seen that at all.

Never saw a lot of random chubby at the meets for D-3 college. Granted, was a thrower. Maybe not a lot of folks are sitting around checking out the D-3 shot putter's massive hams.

I will attest that Blastin' is both black and the most obvious distance runner I've seen in the various local BTF meetups.

The professed straight guys could jet past the hypotheticals and find out first-hand at least somewhat how it feels by visiting a gay bath house. Then you would know. Push your boundaries beyond your comfort zone and walk a mile in another man's shoes. Then report back as your homework.

Also, gay guys spend just as many lonely nights surfin' porn and wishing Grndr was all it was cracked up to be as you do with Tinder.

Heh... not even kidding that a friend of mine - who happens to be gay - said the exact same thing... right down to the Grnrd/Tinder comparison last weekend when we were discussing relative dating quandaries.

We were talking about the relative merits of the 'bar scene' in hetero versus homosexual relations and then just dating in general...
His only point of distinction - and I think it's a fair one - is that it's awfully hard to be gay and just date if you don't live in the "right" place or even the "right" neighborhood... I.e., straights - whether they avail themselves of it or not - generally have the luxury of striking up a conversation, making a snap choice to ask for numbers/introduce themselves as at least interested, etc in mundane, situations like grocery shopping or standing in line for coffee. As he said - it's not that he couldn't do such things, it's that he has to be a lot more discriminating about 'signals' and likewise knows the biological odds are against him if it's a "not sure" situation of sexual orientation (which even in and of itself, is another factor... has any straight man ever decided NOT to approach a woman in a grocery store, etc thinking 'well, she might be a lesbian'?).

I then asked him if he found me attractive, even though I'm not gay, he said I probably could stand to lose a few pounds, maybe a haircut, and I left in tears... but that's neither here nor there.

Pretty much all the time. I want to say it happened more so during practice, but then meets have the added dimension...

NJ in NY - we are talking full on erections here, correct? I have got to imagine that would be very difficult to hide in track outfits, and would also considerably slow you down while competing in track events, no?

The professed straight guys could jet past the hypotheticals and find out first-hand at least somewhat how it feels by visiting a gay bath house. Then you would know. Push your boundaries beyond your comfort zone and walk a mile in another man's shoes. Then report back as your homework.

I was at a house party with my wife's gay friends, and while waiting in the (long) line for the bathroom, a guy asked if we could go at the same time and play swords. I said no, but I suppose for research's sake I should have said yes.

The professed straight guys could jet past the hypotheticals and find out first-hand at least somewhat how it feels by visiting a gay bath house.

If you end up in a particularly seedy one you can feel more or less that same way even if you're gay.

I think for most straight folk, a bar would be enough, especially if they were of average looks or better. I learned to come on fairly strong to guys in those spaces, because you sort of have to. I'm sure it would be enough to make a straight man uncomfortable.

Which a plurality of straight guys who play the same game in the hetero scene could use as an experience, if only to let them know how annoying it is to her when she clearly says no and you keep pushing.

NJ in NY - we are talking full on erections here, correct? I have got to imagine that would be very difficult to hide in track outfits, and would also considerably slow you down while competing in track events, no?

Oh, no. I guess I was unclear. I'm not saying these situations all resulted in erections, but just that there was a ton of sexual tension and a lot of leering at members of the opposite sex.

I think for most straight folk, a bar would be enough, especially if they were of average looks or better. I learned to come on fairly strong to guys in those spaces, because you sort of have to. I'm sure it would be enough to make a straight man uncomfortable.

Heh. I was at a meetup recently that happened to be at a gay coffee shop. I was early and ... well they were all much younger and better looking than me (in uptown, many 20 somethings, all with style to waste). The women who showed up mentioned later they really liked the eye candy and how disappointing it was they were gay (and thus unavailable to them). I think the meeting organizer knows the owner of something, because next meeting is there also.*

Anyway, shockingly, no one hit on me (Yeah it was a really good looking crowd, late 40s me, no chance). However I have been hit on plenty in the past and it really did not make me feel uncomfortable (especially once I figured out what was going on). And I was never harassed or anything, a simple "I'm straight, but thanks" and that was it. Not that harassment could not happen and in fact I am sure it does, but it never did to me.

I guess I could show up early next time, but I suspect no one will hit on me again. Sniff.

* And by the way they were really cool with us being there. Well a couple bemused looks and some slight annoyance that there were 20 or so of us taking up valuable space, but nothing untoward. I know if I was them I would have been annoyed.

Which a plurality of straight guys who play the same game in the hetero scene could use as an experience, if only to let them know how annoying it is to her when she clearly says no and you keep pushing.

Guys regardless of orientation can be kind of clueless there. Which is something else we learn more than other guys do. Most guys have the luxury of not knowing, and the privilege of not needing to.

It's hard to see male privilege if you've always had it. It's probably easiest to notice when there are times you have it and other times where you don't.

Not that there aren't trade offs that come with mainstreaming. Gay guys are a Madison Avenue target market, and have been for much longer than one might guess. As this has bled into gay culture, it's carried with it a set of archetypes reflected in that advertising, one that's tough for real flesh-and-blood men to live up to. (We may take better care of ourselves than straight guys on average, but ~99% of us still have no hope of being underwear models.) Not that I think a world where we had to live in the closet is better in any way, but there have been trade-offs.

The most interesting aspect of the gay rights movement in contrast to previous civil rights movements is how much of it was driven by business.

Previously, the business community was generally on the wrong side of history - there was more money to be made in the slave trade - even if one never owned a slave or dealt in slavery directly - than to align in any with abolitionism, more money to made catering to people who didn't want to shop or dine with memebers of other races than by accommodating those other races, etc. Business has never exactly been unanimous, but a lot of business made the calculation that there was a lot of money to be made targeting gay men (especially if your business is high-end luxury goods, or involves travel/tourism, or urban real estate) in particular, well before they acheieved much manistream acceptance.

Oh, no. I guess I was unclear. I'm not saying these situations all resulted in erections, but just that there was a ton of sexual tension and a lot of leering at members of the opposite sex.

Ah, that makes more sense. Unisex team sports didn't provide much of an opportunity for leering during practice, and games sort of demand your attention, but the coed slower paced/sports with waiting time (skiing, golf, t & f) certainly lent themselves to a bit more of the imaginative juices flowing. Going to the gym now includes the added exercise of keeping my eyes away from all the attractive women working out. I really try hard not to be 'that guy' that stares a bit too much.

I think the key here (and apparently it doesn't apply for anyone other than myself and SBB) is that the perspective of these straight guys is not "Gay men have been doing this all their lives" as much as it is "If I was on a women's team and showering them, what would it feel like/what would be running through my mind." You are a better man than me if you have never felt attracted to female coworkers or were aroused in some form, not necessarily manifesting itself in an erection, by your interactions with them where sometimes only the slightest physical contact has occurred.

I agree with his general point* that it's a bit disconcerting playing with someone who is attracted to you or to who you are attracted, but it's really not a big deal after awhile. I play pickup basketball often and sometimes a girl plays. Since I'm generally the smallest on my team I always end up guarding her. At some point I just decided to guard a girl exactly how I'd guard a guy, which means close and hard and a lot of pressing on the upper body. Maybe some girls wouldn't like that, but those girls don't play pickup basketball with guys in the first place. It shouldn't be too hard to turn off your sexuality for a moment, and it would be kind of depressing if you couldn't.

Since I'm generally the smallest on my team I always end up guarding her. At some point I just decided to guard a girl exactly how I'd guard a guy, which means close and hard and a lot of pressing on the upper body.

A friend's sister played college basketball. Once in awhile she would join us guys for a pickup game during the summer and it wouldn't take a newbie long to realize that guarding Jess with anything less than full physicality and effort would result in;

A friend's sister played college basketball. Once in awhile she would join us guys for a pickup game during the summer and it wouldn't take a newbie long to realize that guarding Jess with anything less than full physicality and effort would result in;

I remember when I was about 15 I (along with 8 other guys I suppose) played a baseball game against a girl's all-star team - one of whom would go on to be a 3-time Olympic gold medalist in hockey. While I was playing short, one of them was taking a pretty aggressive secondary lead off 2B. My brother was catching and I guess we had some sort of fraternal signal going, because after the next pitch we had a good timing play going and I snuck in behind her to have her out by at least 7-8 feet. I turned to lay one of those excuse me tags on a runner who's just frozen because they're dead to rights, but apparently she wasn't one to give up an out willingly. I'm not exactly sure what happened but I ended up on the ground with my pants torn from the thigh to the shoe...but at least I got the out!

No matter what their gender, if someone's a serious athlete it doesn't take long for it to become obvious that you ought to treat them like one.

Apparently Ellen Page has come out. I'm not terribly surprised, but I think this may make me like her even more. Though I'm not sure she's capable of doing anything that doesn't make me like her more, so I may not be the most reliable assessor.

This obsession with sexuality. Yes, sex is fun, natural, normal, necessary, but, if we're all the same (and we are, as long as we're talking about consenting adults) it seems to me that it's not a subject that needs a lot of discussion. It's wonderful to have lots of sex, as long as it doesn't become an unhealthy obsession, and as long as neither participant feels "used". It's creepy to read/listen to someone constantly wax euphoric about their exploits.

Having a gay player isn't weird. The fact that a couple of dozen grown male millionaires get naked in a room together and go take a gang shower together is weird. If Michael Sam and the gay players who follow cause teams to reconsider this practice, they really will have made a contribution.

Jason Collins, who came out as gay in the offseason but didn't get any job offers, is signing a 10-day contract with the Nets. I wonder if the generally positive response by athletes to the Michael Sam news (and the knowledge that it caused no real problems at Missouri) helped lead to the decision for Brooklyn