Opinions vary on this...it is all about the individual and how he thinks and what's available to him.

Rick posted

Anyway just wondering what people thought about this concept of a little hurt to learn?

Personally I never cared for 'weapons training' other than bayonet training in advanced infantry, and pistol craft in the civilian world... as I always relate skills usefulness to what's most likely to happen in the street or in the 'theater' you are likely to find yourself in.

I don't want to program/ingrain 'dueling' with blades or sticks in my subconscious…I want to ingrain the 'sensing' of a weapon about to be deployed, and as soon as the 'deadly force' implement is about to be shown…I want to ingrain the stop/kill response action, with one move, same way as we were taught in bayonet training.

Also to keep in mind is that once you get into a mutual dueling situation, you will be in a heap of legal problems.

Digressing here for a moment...Bayonet training with no scabbard is kind of scary, especially when they show you a particular way you must step out of a killing thrust 'center mass' to 'unstick' the blade from the body, with the bayonet coming back out taking bloody entrails with it…

…part of the training was for the infantry men to be crowded into a small, hot, movie 'house' and be shown footage of war carnage with dying soldiers holding their spilled guts. We were also warned that such a sight on the screen would cause many of us to vomit on soldiers seated next to us.

When this invariably happened, the stench of the vomit would trigger more vomiting in the 'house' with a rush to the door outside…but, as I said, I digress.

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The most important reason we condition and we train with some hurt, is because every one of us has individual weaknesses…and we must train in areas of our weaknesses...this is something many of us deny...just as we deny the effects of psychological 'brick wall'_

Once we find out what our weaknesses are, we should try to rectify them by exposing them to the 'hurt' Rick talks about.

The Uechi Body conditioning we do _day and day out is 'hurtful' to a certain extent and shows us where our weaknesses lie, to start with…

this needs to be combined with realistic free sparring, as we did in the seventies, and preferably free style competition against other systems' fighters that will give us a chance to work thru some of the 'beat downs' physical and mental…likely to experience in a real fight.

Any training_ to be useful, must contain also timing and distance practice, but most important develop 'quality of movement' along with simple techniques that are delivered by limbs and associated parts that will not 'fracture' upon impact, something you can only achieve thru conditioning.

Students need to learn that the momentary pain does not usually equal serious injury and need not be cause for panic.

Through the 'hurt' experience they come to put it in proper perspective.

This is an extremely valuable lesson because students then learn not to stop fighting when they get hit!

There is something else that not many people think about...most students who compete in tournament fighting at the brown and black belt levels actually like being hit—it stimulates their fighting spirit...in a way like when I got tackled hard _on the soccer field, it made me play better.

I think Marcus understands this well as he has fought full contact matches continuously against very strong adversaries.

What if I told you that you could graduate officers from your police academy that would drive much safer during vehicle pursuits or code three runs? They’d be far more effective when they arrived on scene after a code three response; and be far less likely to use excessive force at the end of an extended pursuit. Their thinking and decision making abilities would be enhanced, and their responses based upon primitive emotions and adrenaline, would decrease. Undoubtedly, this could save you countless headaches, tons of paperwork, and hours of litigation preparation. What if I told you that your academy trainers could accomplish this with only five to ten minutes of academy training time, every day, for the duration of your department’s academy? Would you be interested? Someone was once quoted as saying, " Those who are crazy enough to believe they can change the world are usually the ones that end up doing so." So call me crazy, but I know how much this technique helped me and I truly believe it can help improve the world of law enforcement forever.

An officer’s worst enemy in a code three run or pursuit is an adrenaline overload. The speed, the sound of the siren blaring and the desire for apprehension can cause an officer’s adrenaline level to soar. Once the huge adrenaline dump occurs things can go from bad to worse. Tunnel vision and/or target fixation can set in. Fine and complex motor skills diminish and short term memory (the creative/reasoning part of the brain) can be severely hindered leaving an officer with nothing more than long term memory and primal, emotional instincts to operate with.

The potential for an adrenaline overload during a pursuit is tremendous, particularly for younger, inexperienced officers. One study quoted on the Discovery Channel’s "High-Speed Pursuit" proclaimed that officers involved in extended pursuits have adrenaline levels that exceed those of soldiers engaged in combat.

I can confirm that study’s statement from personal experience. I had an extremely tough time trying to keep my adrenaline under check during pursuits during my early years on the job. My voice would go up several octaves. My radio communications would become unintelligible, tunnel vision would take over and my reasoning and common sense would go right out the window. I think back now and thank God we had those underpowered 318 Grand Furys during the 80’s. Had we had the LS-1’s at that time, I probably would have died in one.

Quite frankly, at that time I was a threat to others and myself during a pursuit. I knew I had to get control of this adrenaline demon before it ended up in a tragedy. I also knew I was on my own and would have to find a solution myself. I had been a life-long martial artist and was quite adept at using controlled breathing techniques for stress control for fighting. The breathing technique known as Chi breathing, Sanshin breathing, Autogenic breathing and probably a dozen more also-known-as names, has been recently touted in police training circles as ‘Combat Breathing."

The breathing is done in cycles. Breathe in through your nose for a count of four; hold your breath for a count of four; exhale through your mouth for a count of four; hold your breath for a count of four, and then restart the cycle. Breath deeply and methodically, completely filling and emptying your lungs during each cycle. This simple technique will lower your blood pressure, arousal/stress level, and minimize the overwhelming side effects of an adrenaline dump.

A lot of progressive police training classes now teach this breathing exercise, but most will not take it to the proper training level necessary to make it functional. In most cases, this technique is taught in the completely tranquil, sterile environment of a quiet classroom. This fails to give the officer a proper mental cue to trigger the breathing pattern subconsciously. An officer is going to need this technique the most, when his adrenaline and the events of the moment are overloading his short-term memory with information vital to his survival.

We now know what technique our officer’s need to learn. The big missing piece of the puzzle is; how do we teach it so they will remember to do it, when they need it the most? Well, you probably can’t. Teach them to remember to do it, that is. To expect officers to consciously remember to utilize the breathing technique is neither realistic nor dependable. You can however, make it a conditioned response to a specific stimulus.

Bruce Lee was once quoted as teaching "Learn it until you forget it." I believe his meaning was to learn techniques so that you could perform them without conscious thought. As he said in the movie ENTER THE DRAGON while teaching a young apprentice, "Don’t think, feel."

You want to make the “Combat Breathing” a subconscious part of your officer’s tactical/survival arsenal. They will learn it until they forget about it. However under the right stimulus, they will perform it to their advantage without even thinking about it. This is the ultimate level of performance training, the ability to perform without conscious thought. While this sounds very complex, the training methodology is not. All you need to make sure is that your officers are at least as smart as your dumbest K-9. Think back to your basic science class and Pavlov’s dog. Pavlov, a scientist in old Russia, did experiments with what he called Conditioned Response. He would ring a bell right before feeding his dog. The dog learned to associate the bell with food, and would salivate at it’s sound, even when no food was around. The scientist had programmed an involuntary, subconscious, physical response to a specific stimulus into the brain of a dog. The modern day version of a conditioned response, used widely in police and other training circles, is called stimulus-response. "Sit, Rover." Rover sits. The command, "Sit" is the stimulus. Rover sitting is the response. Call it what you want, but it all boils down to the concept that is credited to have been originated by Pavlov. The way to apply this to police officers engaged in pursuit or code three driving and stress control, is to pre-introduce the stimulus, and have them repeatedly practice the desired response.

While some will vehemently disagree, I was pretty sure that I was as smart as Pavlov’s dog. If the dog could learn to salivate subconsciously to the sound of the bell, why couldn’t I learn to subconsciously induce combat breathing when I heard the sound of the siren? Thus turning a mental "cue" that normally raises my adrenaline, into one that would actually lower it. While I can’t take credit for inventing “Combat Breathing” or the Conditioned Response Theorem. I do accept credit for the idea of combining the two to use the siren specifically as a cue to help lower officer arousal levels, instead of the siren increasing stress.

The methodology of this training is quite simple. You take a tape recording of a siren and play it for your cadets for five or ten minutes a day, EVERY day, at the end of the academy training day. While the siren plays, the cadets practice the combat breathing exercises we detailed earlier. To enhance this, have them watch videos of pursuits from in-car tapes as you do this. If you do this for the duration of your academy, when your cadets are on the street, they will start combat breathing subconsciously to the sound of a siren. Thus helping them to greatly control their adrenaline surges before they occur.

Now, I’m not a doctor and I don’t play one on TV. However, Alexis Artwohl, P.hD (www.alexisartwohl.com) is one of America’s most respected police psychologists. Dr. Artwohl had this to say about this training concept:

"During my twenty years as a practicing clinical and police psychologist, I worked many individuals who had survived traumatic events: combat veterans, civilians, and many police officers involved in shootings, pursuits, and other sudden, high stress, and potentially traumatic situations. I have studied the fascinating question of what allows some people to perform well in these life-threatening situations while others do not. There are a variety of factors, but based on my study of the scientific literature and working with numerous actual survivors, it became clear to me that one of the most important factors is THE INDIVIDUAL'S ABILITY TO CONTROL PHYSIOLOGICAL AND EMOTIONAL AROUSAL LEVELS WHEN FACED WITH HIGH STRESS SITUATIONS. This ability should not be taken for granted when training police officers. In fact, it should be the cornerstone upon which all other training rests. Controlled breathing is an ages old technique that warriors, athletes, and others have used for centuries to control arousal levels and achieve peak performance. Psychologists often call it "autogenic" breathing and have been using it for years to teach people relaxation skills so they can control anxiety levels. Police officers should be taught controlled breathing from Day One in training to the point where it becomes so automatic they do it without thinking. They should be given the opportunity to practice it during stress-inducing reality based training scenarios. If we don't provide officers with this type of "stress inoculation" training we are not adequately preparing them to perform well in an actual situation. What Sgt. Humes discovered during his trial by fire on the street is very valuable information that all agencies would be wise to incorporate into their training programs."

Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, (www.killology.com) a former army Ranger and paratrooper, who taught psychology at West Point; is the Author of the Pulitzer Prize nominated book "On Killing" and the highly acclaimed police training tape "The Bullet-Proof Mind." Col. Grossman had this to say about the training concept:

"I have been teaching the breathing exercise and its positive impact on performance during high-speed pursuits for years now, and I have been training it to military special ops pilots for the same reason. All of these organizations have given me tremendous positive feedback. The idea of making it a conditioned reflex is brilliant. This is a true revolution in training, which addresses a major performance problem and brings us up to a new level of professionalism.

I will close this article by saying every that Police Chief, every Police Commissioner, and every Police Trainer should have one item. A copy of the old military poster that reads "Your mind is your primary weapon," hanging in front of their desk. Or maybe an updated version that would read more accurately for police work, from an administrative view. "Your Officer’s minds are their primary source of every positive, and negative action they make." The fact of the matter is just that, and it’s such a simple concept that we tend to overlook it. An officer’s brain is the little voice in his head that makes his body accomplish tremendous acts of bravery under unthinkable situations. However, it can also be the primal, instinctive voice commanding the use of excessive force under circumstances of extreme stress, adrenaline overload and emotional arousal, even from officers that would not think of such an act under normal conditions. We owe it our officers to give them every tool possible, to enhance their performance and to help them keep their adrenaline demons under control. Here is the tool, the rest is up to you.

Training in the various disciplines of confrontation can reinforce the motivation with confidence which may be good or bad. It can provide the confidence in ones ability to intervene whereas one with no training may see only futility in intervention.

On the other hand, training may make one overconfident to the point of ill advised intervention. The outcome usually decides which is the case, depending on the personal view of the one intervening. To one, losing ones life to save another would be a victory, to another a loss.

Training in law and personal liability can provide confidence by knnowing where one stands within the law and when he can legally act. This may not prevent one from intervening in a borderline situation, depending on how they perceive the plight of the victim. Or it may prevent one from intervening, where legally appropriate, based on fear of legal ramifications.

So there is the motivation and training pushing in the same or different directions dependiing on personal beliefs, feelings and the situation. What will often sway the decision one way or the other is that adrenalin surge that some receive at the perception of a "situation". I believe this is one of the most powerful things that affect human behavior.

I have never used drugs but I, having felt it (adrenalin surge) on more than one occasion, cannot imagine any drug more powerful.

This can be negative by overriding, training or common sense or it can be positive in that it may override fear and enhance, perception, speed, power and endurance. It can push you into either "flight or fight". In any case it is a powerful factor.

So what am I saying? That there are many dichotomies in the decision to intervene or not. That in all likelihood YOU will not consciously make the decision. It will be made by the combination or your motivaton, training and adrenalin surge.

The interaction of and the degree of concurrence or discord between them along with the weight given each component within yourself will determine whether you will intervene.

This interaction will take place in the space of a few seconds or less and may well influence the rest of your life, if in fact you survive. You may be well into a "situation" when you think, "What am I doing here?".

The decision once made is usually irreversible so LOOK TO YOUR MOTIVATION AND TRAINNING, they can have great affect on your life. Small differences in either one can have large ramifications. I don't know if it is possible for Civilians, or LEOs for that matter , based on the number of "situations" they encounter, to control the adreanlin surge.

Maybe I am overcomplicating something simple, but I have on occasion wondered what made me decide to act ot not to act in a given situation. Maybe others have also. I think that something that can affect the physical, psychological and financial well-being of someone is worth a discussion.

“Self-defense is clearly my focus in this book. What is it? It is recovery from stupidity or bad luck, from finding yourself in a position you would have given almost anything to prevent. It is difficult to train for because of the surprise element and because you may be injured before you are aware of the conflict. The critical element is to overcome the shock and surprise so that you can act, to ‘beat the freeze.’ Self-defense is about recovery. The ideal is to prevent the situation. The optimal mindset is often a conditioned response that requires no thought (for the first half-second of the attack) or a focused rage.”

Page 9:

“If you can truly flip the switch from surprise, overwhelmed, and terrified to the assault mindset, I can’t teach you much. This is the opposite of the ‘frozen’ response often trigger by a sudden assault, and we train hard to trigger that freeze in others.”Page 11:

“The implacable predatory mindset or the assault is powerful. It is cold-blooded, calculating, and utterly controlled. It is also inhuman, reducing the target of the assault from human to either a resource (in the criminal mind) or a threat (in the mind of an entry team).

Page 11:

“The predator mindset is a choice. No one is in that mind at all times – it has too many blind spots to function in normal society. Self-defence is never a choice. The attacker is in the predatory mindset, not the victim. The victim will have to deal with shock and total surprise, the predator won’t. The essence of self-defence is breaking out of the frozen mindset you have been shocked into. If you can access the predator mindset a few second into the attack, you can turn the attack into something else. That’s powerful, but takes great experience.”

Page 21 Assumptions:

What is feels like in a “fight” vs. What it is like.What a fight looks like?What a win is?

Strategy and tactics, assumption and epistemology are all critical to thinking about violence and preparing for violence. In the moment of a sudden attack, however, your brain will change. The way you think will change.

Page 36:

OODA:

Observe –what is happeningOrient – to the observation (interpret the sensory input)Decide – what to do about itAct

Page 54:

“The four truths: Assaults happen closer, faster, more suddenly, and with more power than most people believe.”

Page 136:

“If you are ever faced with extreme violence, you will have to make the decision to act. Make it now…. Once you have made the list, these are your ‘Go’ buttons. You must commit that if one of them happens you will act ruthlessly and decisively. You cannot second-guess yourself in the moment.

Here are some examples:

• I will always act if someone attempts to tie or handcuff me.• If someone threatens a child with a weapon.• If someone attempts a rape.• If someone attempts to move me to a secondary crime scene.• If a lone armed threat puts down his weapon and either the threat of the weapon is within arm’s reach.• If I see an exit and the threat is not focused on me.

RFRecently there have been a rash of wildings in New York; do you prepare your students for defense against these things?

KeatingWell one of the things we do in our Bowie Knife Seminar, it's a three-day event and one of the things people want to know is when a guy is bullying you, and what if he picks up a baseball bat, and you have a knife, well what do you do then, what if there are three of them, two of them have knives and the other guys has a bat, well, we'll put you through these, with the rubber knives and plastic bats, and the helmets on, try it out and see, and we show you how to engage these different weapons, because this is becoming more and more prevalent all over, these surprise assaults on people, the motive? They have no motive.

A gang is on the street, let's have some fun, then suddenly someone pulls a knife, it escalates and suddenly someone's dead. Well it's just like a pack of dogs that stray until they see a cat, a dog, a small child or anything else that's moving and that becomes the target, then they attack. I remember a very famous case of a NY woman who was raped, had her head bludgeoned, and she lived but she'll never be the same.

Many times people come up to me and say, hey Keating when you teach your Bowie class and your fencing style methods, who do you think you're going to fight? Are you going to fight the three musketeers out there? No they're the idiots, not me, cause if you can deal with me one-on-one, which will be a matter of hours, not years, if you can face me, I guarantee you can kill three normal men. If they're armed with knives.