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This looks better than the Marvel MMO they were working on and will give Cryptic more freedom.

Especially since Cryptic owns the Champions IP now. Here's what the HERO system line director had to say about it:

So that’s the main scoop, straight from the horse’s mouth! But here are a few additional tidbits that I think will help explain the Champions Online MMO (“COMMO”) deal to current Hero/Champions fans.

1. What’s happened here is that Cryptic has bought the Champions and Dark Champions intellectual property — the characters, setting, history, events, and so on.

2. Cryptic has not bought the HERO System rules. The Champions Online MMO is not a “HERO System MMO.” You will not be using the HERO System to build your characters in the MMO, or anything like that. Under the terms of our agreement with Cryptic, COMMO will use many HERO System terms for its powers, abilities, and so on, but it does not use the HERO System rules.

3. Cryptic has not bought any of the rest of our IP (such as the Turakian Age, the Terran Empire, or Tuala Morn).

4. Under the terms of our agreement, Cryptic has licensed back to DOJ the right to produce Champions RPG supplements, though it has the right to approve those supplements. As part of the deal we get to use their artwork. This makes at least a few color books possible going forward, though when we implement a change like that has not yet been decided.

5. Because Cryptic now owns the Champions/Dark Champions IP, they can change it or tweak it as they deem fit so that it suits an MMO. For example, I’ve seen their illustration of Defender. It looks nothing like any incarnation of Defender ever published by Hero Games. Similarly, I’ve seen their Dr. Destroyer. I’d bet that a Champions fan would realize it’s Dr. Destroyer, but he doesn’t look exactly like the Dr. D in CKC. The needs of an MMO are often different from the needs of an RPG, so Cryptic’s going to change things as needed.

However, that being said, Cryptic has no desire to run an RPG company; they have plenty of their own fish to fry. There’s a huge range of information about the Champions Universe that Cryptic generally isn’t concerned about since it has no direct impact on COMMO. Therefore I don’t expect any problems on this front. As we keep publishing Champions supplements we’ll be changing things as needed to reflect Cryptic’s vision of the Champions Universe, but that doesn’t mean our own views are going to get shoved aside — it’s a big sandbox to play in and Cryptic only needs part of it for an MMO. For example, Dr. Destroyer looks a certain way in COMMO, and that will be reflected when he makes an appearance in books — but it doesn’t mean we couldn’t come up with three or four more suits of armor for him as part of the RPG. So far we’ve had an excellent working relationship with the guys at Cryptic, many of whom are long-time fans of Champions, and I have no doubt that will continue as we move forward.

6. Going forward, we’re going to create Champions supplements that will help Cryptic in its production of the game. We’re going to cover subjects it would like to see covered, create things it would like to see created, and otherwise try to dovetail our goals for Champions the RPG with their goals for Champions Online. This helps us because we get to use their art (minimizing production costs) and can produce books that will hopefully be of interest (and thus sell to) fans of COMMO who aren’t fans of ours (yet!). It also allows us to have more of an impact on COMMO than it would if we just left it all to Cryptic.

7. When we come out with a new edition of CHAMPIONS for the 6E rules, or perhaps a distinct COMMO RPG book, we’ll include information about how to create your COMMO character using the HERO System rules, probably with a bunch of plug-and-play prebuilt powers to boot. But just to make sure we’re clear, COMMO does not use the HERO System rules in any way. I can build World Of Warcraft or Everquest characters with the HERO System too, but they’re not based on HERO either.

Now that we’ve gotten all that out of the way, I’ll conclude by saying how excited all of us here at Hero Games are to be working with Cryptic on this project. Not only is it going to be an awesome MMO based on our way cool Champions Universe, it’s a chance to expose the HERO System to a much broader audience than ever before. We hope you’ll join us in welcoming newcomer to the site, making them feel at home, and helping them learn the game.

He sounds kind of bitter about the whole thing, up until the final paragraph.

Are you people serious? All I'm hearing is complaints of the similarities to CoX in here. 90% of the MMOs out there are fantasy-based dragon and ogre slaying bullshit. They all copy off of eachother, just as this one is doing to CoX. I'm just happy that there is going to be more than one comic-themed game to choose from, and I hope this trend continues. 20 years from now, I hope to be in the place of the original EQ players, talking about the good old days.

The problem (for me at least) isn't that the game concept is similar, it's that the game mechanics look similar - that's the concern at least. I'd happily play another MMO that just copied CoX, but what I'm really concerned about is playing another MMO that is CoX. More than one comic-themed game would be great, but if they all play exactly the same, what's the point?
I want to play a new game, not just a glorified expansion.

Are you people serious? All I'm hearing is complaints of the similarities to CoX in here. 90% of the MMOs out there are fantasy-based dragon and ogre slaying bullshit. They all copy off of eachother, just as this one is doing to CoX. I'm just happy that there is going to be more than one comic-themed game to choose from, and I hope this trend continues. 20 years from now, I hope to be in the place of the original EQ players, talking about the good old days.

The problem (for me at least) isn't that the game concept is similar, it's that the game mechanics look similar - that's the concern at least. I'd happily play another MMO that just copied CoX, but what I'm really concerned about is playing another MMO that is CoX. More than one comic-themed game would be great, but if they all play exactly the same, what's the point?
I want to play a new game, not just a glorified expansion.

The Game Informer article says it has an active combat system. They mention active blocking and fighting akin to Ultimate Alliance type of games.

My only hope is that they have a better quest system than CoX. I know other games are guilty of having players do the same kind of missions over and over again, but they at least do a good job of hiding. CoX is so nakedly repetitive that I got bored out of it. Maybe it's my fault for getting into it late and not having a good supergroup, but running the same missions with the same tilesets over and over... ugh.

My only hope is that they have a better quest system than CoX. I know other games are guilty of having players do the same kind of missions over and over again, but they at least do a good job of hiding. CoX is so nakedly repetitive that I got bored out of it. Maybe it's my fault for getting into it late and not having a good supergroup, but running the same missions with the same tilesets over and over... ugh.

I have high hopes though.

Yes, it is your fault.
Join us and all will be right with the world.

Plus they've been adding new tilesets every issue, it is only ultra super repetitive if you do old hero zones and never mix it up between newspapers and standard missions. There are still too many caves and offices but it isn't anywhere near as bad as it use to be.

One thing that I would love to see in this game is user created stuff actually put into the game. There are mods you can get for CoX (that only you can see, not other characters) that change graphical things, and some were pretty cool. I recall that someone made the Chuck Taylor shoes in a mod long before the game officially released them.

I think the official word for CoX was that the effort of quality checking user submissions would just be too much. You don't want people making Wang Maces or copies of Venom outfits, plus they'd have to work with all the models and animations and quality settings etc etc.

I know that if you give someone creative control of what a sword looks like, we're going to start seeing some dicksabers. We all know that. I'm just hoping for a user creation submitting system or something, where you can submit models for weapons, skins, hairstyles, etc. That way, we can get a crack at truly making our own hero, and Cryptic can put a tag on whatever skin it is to give credit.

Gentlemen, we are all so terribly fucked. Pack in as much social living as you can in 2008 because when Champions launches sometime in '09 life as we know it is officially over.

Just some highlights off the top of my head that wasn't on their webpage:

-Actual loot based system, don't like the way the awesome new loot you just acquired looks? Modify it! Still don't like it? Turn off its visual identity but keep the effects.

-Tired of your current Nemesis? Defeat him soundly enough and you can create a new one.

-Choose your own animations so your robot moves like a mechanical being would or your Werewolf runs on all fours.

-Lots of cut scenes with spoken dialogue.

-Huge variety of locations with missions from a few minutes to hour long.

-Traps! As in at least somewhat interactive environments.

-Other stuff I'll add later! Playing CoX now.

oh, and the game isn't cell shaded. The outline of the figures have a cell shaded look to them but the actual textures have bump mapping and other stuff so it isn't true cell shading...it is more advanced.

The first MMO to successfully employ real-time action combat will be an easy sell to me. Especially if it can fit nicely to the 360 gamepad.

I enjoyed CoH in short segments (would have been better like Diablo than subscription based imo) and the same developers who have learned from their past game trying a new one doesn't bother me even if it's more similar than maybe it should be.

Gentlemen, we are all so terribly fucked. Pack in as much social living as you can in 2008 because when Champions launches sometime in '09 life as we know it is officially over.

Just some highlights off the top of my head that wasn't on their webpage:

-Actual loot based system, don't like the way the awesome new loot you just acquired looks? Modify it! Still don't like it? Turn off its visual identity but keep the effects.

-Tired of your current Nemesis? Defeat him soundly enough and you can create a new one.

-Choose your own animations so your robot moves like a mechanical being would or your Werewolf runs on all fours.

-Lots of cut scenes with spoken dialogue.

-Huge variety of locations with missions from a few minutes to hour long.

-Traps! As in at least somewhat interactive environments.

-Other stuff I'll add later! Playing CoX now.

oh, and the game isn't cell shaded. The outline of the figures have a cell shaded look to them but the actual textures have bump mapping and other stuff so it isn't true cell shading...it is more advanced.

This is why I'm excited about CO, Cryptic has learned a lot since CoH was released nearly 4 years ago, since they're making an MMO in a post-World of Warcraft world, it's a lot easier to determine what players will like.

Blizzard really did show the world what an MMO could and should be, they introduced millions of people into the genre. Love it or hate it, Blizzard pretty much pointed people in the right direction and taught other companies what they were doing wrong. I'm not a Blizzard fanboy, but you can't argue that they have single-handedly caused the explosion of the genre over the last few years.

That is to say, I'm not expecting CO to ever hit 10 million players, but Cryptic has definitely grown more knowledgeable about he genre as whole since CoX. Given that Jack Emmert even admitted that originally Cryptic felt that armor or costume pieces that gave you stats would be too much micro-management and wouldn't be something that players would want to deal with, which Blizzard proved wrong. Glad to see they're doing it in CO

Wow, I'm loving the artstyle. Here's hoping Cryptic has learned it's lesson from CoH and builds the engine to support power (graphical) customization from the get-go. No pink pompoms of death this time around please.

Will be interesting to see what NCNC will try to pull off here in 2008/9 to retain it's playerbase, as I can see a mass-migration from CoH to this that would make the WoW release seem like a minor hickup in comparison.

Gentlemen, we are all so terribly fucked. Pack in as much social living as you can in 2008 because when Champions launches sometime in '09 life as we know it is officially over.

Just some highlights off the top of my head that wasn't on their webpage:

-Actual loot based system, don't like the way the awesome new loot you just acquired looks? Modify it! Still don't like it? Turn off its visual identity but keep the effects.

-Tired of your current Nemesis? Defeat him soundly enough and you can create a new one.

-Choose your own animations so your robot moves like a mechanical being would or your Werewolf runs on all fours.

-Lots of cut scenes with spoken dialogue.

-Huge variety of locations with missions from a few minutes to hour long.

-Traps! As in at least somewhat interactive environments.

-Other stuff I'll add later! Playing CoX now.

oh, and the game isn't cell shaded. The outline of the figures have a cell shaded look to them but the actual textures have bump mapping and other stuff so it isn't true cell shading...it is more advanced.

This is why I'm excited about CO, Cryptic has learned a lot since CoH was released nearly 4 years ago, since they're making an MMO in a post-World of Warcraft world, it's a lot easier to determine what players will like.

Blizzard really did show the world what an MMO could and should be, they introduced millions of people into the genre. Love it or hate it, Blizzard pretty much pointed people in the right direction and taught other companies what they were doing wrong. I'm not a Blizzard fanboy, but you can't argue that they have single-handedly caused the explosion of the genre over the last few years.

That is to say, I'm not expecting CO to ever hit 10 million players, but Cryptic has definitely grown more knowledgeable about he genre as whole since CoX. Given that Jack Emmert even admitted that originally Cryptic felt that armor or costume pieces that gave you stats would be too much micro-management and wouldn't be something that players would want to deal with, which Blizzard proved wrong. Glad to see they're doing it in CO

I think the larger concern was tying appearance to stats, since it'd limit customization. From the games I've seen it didn't seem to be til later that games started putting in the option to turn off certain armor pieces yet keep the stats. The one thing CoX did definitly take for WoW though was including the numbers on everything rather than using "moderate" "high" etc.

The first MMO to successfully employ real-time action combat will be an easy sell to me. Especially if it can fit nicely to the 360 gamepad.

I have longed forever for a controller-using MMO, ever since PSO.

From what I'm hearing so far, it's looking more and more like a Freedom Force kind of game, but online. I don't want that. They can go ahead and copy the MMO formula all day, but keep it classic looking. I'm not into playing superhero Diablo II.

its a pretty good read, I have some high expectations for this MMO, hopefully they can pull it off. One thing I'm wishing for is NO MORE ZONING, for the most part at least. If they can keep it down to about as much load times as WoW I'll be a happy camper.

I dabbled a bit with CoX but there just didn't seem to be enough meat there. I really want some depth...need some depth to keep me playing longer than a month. I thought that CoX did what it did quite well...it just didn't do more.

The only thing that I can see possibly really fucking this game up is Geko, if he's part of the Champions team. I know he's still with Cryptic, but if he's still doing his behind-the-scenes fuckery, I dunno if I can contain my nerd rage.

The only thing that I can see possibly really fucking this game up is Geko, if he's part of the Champions team. I know he's still with Cryptic, but if he's still doing his behind-the-scenes fuckery, I dunno if I can contain my nerd rage.

The only thing that I can see possibly really fucking this game up is Geko, if he's part of the Champions team. I know he's still with Cryptic, but if he's still doing his behind-the-scenes fuckery, I dunno if I can contain my nerd rage.

I can't wait to hear about the first misplaced decimal point.

Or the internal testing servers that are running powerset-related code so radically different that it may as well be a different game.

-Actual loot based system, don't like the way the awesome new loot you just acquired looks? Modify it! Still don't like it? Turn off its visual identity but keep the effects.

Oh my God this. This is something that bugs me about practically every other MMO (and games with equipment in general). In every game, every character of class X and level Y has item Z. No exceptions. There's always some cool looking bit of armor or whatever that I like on my character, but then I get something better that just looks blah. But I don't want to gimp my character, so I end up being forced to toss originality aside and equip what works.

A game that lets you pick how gear looks irrespective of it's stats? HELL YES.

The team renewed its "focus on the fan" that year, too: "No more nerfs... it was driving me nuts. I just couldn't take it anymore."

Thank you NCSoft, for that mandate!

I like how Jack whines about people twisting his words when he could rarely be bothered to toss off more than the occasional one liner rather than actually comitting to communicating with honesty, clarity, and respect for your customer. Castle does it all the fucking time for the CoH Dev team, and its not exactly rocket science. I mean, Jack really can't complain about people twisting his words when he publically said "no more changes to powers" and then brought out enhancement diversification. Enhancements, off course, being the things you use to make your powers do things.

Oh, and he basically calls CoV a failure. Smooth! And admitting that basically PvP was a waste of time since the CoH playerbase really couldn't give a collective rats ass. Even better! Those crazy people on the CoH boards are going to have a freaking field-day with this.

As for those feature lists for C:O. I'll get excited when I see the game launched with them. And not a second earlier.

I mean, really, really, excrutiatingly painful to watch twisting. I couldn't count how many dev posts I used to see where the devs made the most simple, straightforwards statements imaginable, and people would infer all sorts of paranoid, freaked out stuff that I could only imagine interpreting if I was occasionally insane.

Maybe he deserved a little bit of it, but really, if people here interpreted my posts the way people did his on the CoX boards, I wouldn't post here anymore.

Well, someone dug this up on the City of Heroes forums, and I think its a nice of example of why getting excited over predicted feature lists is kind of silly. This isn't my post, but its an example of what I've been thinking when I've been reading people needing to change their pants over what may end up being nothing more than hype.

All the features they pimp sound great, they remind me of
Jacks/Statesman and Cryptics other overestimations
the first time around;

a player can also choose special flaws and background that provide special limitations and advantages in game play.

Never happened

Every player's actions will affect where the city is going and what will happen next.

Never happened

As heroes complete missions and foil various villain groups, they acquire personal enemies who will start popping up more and more.

Nope

the actions of every hero are important in each Shard's storyline. Depending on the performance of heroes, the supervillains and their minions change and modify their approach.

Nope

The choice of origin is not cosmetic; Some origin types might be able to get more powers

Never happened

Some origin types will be more focused on skills than powers and consequently they will receive certain breaks on purchasing skills.

Never happened

villains and monsters will not appear in predictable locations.

Woops

Some origin types allow heroes special backgrounds that will provide special weapons and items to battle crime.

Nope

we designed an Arena combat system. A player who dies will respawn back in his base

Took two years after release to even see these,
and they were broken from the start.

Our mission system is quite involved. players will find little in the way of repetition.

Ya don't say, Jack, sounds great!

Players become an integral part of many ongoing story arcs as the villain groups react to player victories and defeats.

Never happened

Players can have a direct impact on what happens to the city.

Noppers, didn't make it

We're looking to release late next summer or next fall. Cryptic Studios plans to release City of Heroes in the summer of 2002.

Interview date: Oct 2001, actual release date: April 2004.
Just off by a tad.

Just a small list of Jack and Cryptics promos of things that
either just never happened, or were broken long after release.

Jeez, all that sounds like one hell of a game, nearly all of it
never happened.
If they actually did half of what they spun, this game never would've had the turnover rate it did.

Jack & Cryptic never had issue telling a tale everyonewanted to hear , they couldn't back it up,
not in this product after nearly six years co-ownership.
And it's likely the trademark "Soon" will be copiously
sprinkled over questions of, "when is the archenemy feature going to work right?"

Take with a grain of salt the grand promotions coming from Jack and Cryptic,
compare the retail product with their current promotional promises, the two may not look anything alike.

I think what he said about CoV was true when I played it. Aside from robbing banks and mayhem missions, I did not feel very villainous at all.

And, within days or perhaps hours of CoV's beta opening, we were telling the developers that very thing. I'm not sure why they didn't listen, or why Jack is disappointed about it now, when his company did nothing to change that feel when they had the chance.

Well, someone dug this up on the City of Heroes forums, and I think its a nice of example of why getting excited over predicted feature lists is kind of silly. This isn't my post, but its an example of what I've been thinking when I've been reading people needing to change their pants over what may end up being nothing more than hype.

stuff

Thing is though, this has pretty much been true of every MMOG I've followed, and a lot of *games* I've followed. I think it was most noticeable back with Freedom Force (at least for me), which wasn't an MMOG, but the VAST difference between the game players were expecting and the game they got were stark. People were expecting an RPG where they created their own characters. What they got was something else entirely.

So yeah, we need to hold out for more info before we say much more than "this could be nice"...

Well, someone dug this up on the City of Heroes forums, and I think its a nice of example of why getting excited over predicted feature lists is kind of silly. This isn't my post, but its an example of what I've been thinking when I've been reading people needing to change their pants over what may end up being nothing more than hype.

stuff

Thing is though, this has pretty much been true of every MMOG I've followed, and a lot of *games* I've followed. I think it was most noticeable back with Freedom Force (at least for me) but the VAST difference between the game players were expecting and the game they got were stark.

Oh, I'm certainly not saying this is a phenomenon unique to Cryptic, Jack Emmert, or even MMOs.

I expect most of the stuff they announced so far to make it in at launch because it didn't make it in last time. Learned from their mistakes plus they've had all of these years to figure out ways to make the stuff they originally created work. Not to mention, according to the GI article, the engine is finished and all the team is doing for the next year is balancing powers and adding content.

The article also said this engine lets them add content as they play the game, making for a smoother development for missions.

The team renewed its "focus on the fan" that year, too: "No more nerfs... it was driving me nuts. I just couldn't take it anymore."

Thank you NCSoft, for that mandate!

I like how Jack whines about people twisting his words when he could rarely be bothered to toss off more than the occasional one liner rather than actually comitting to communicating with honesty, clarity, and respect for your customer. Castle does it all the fucking time for the CoH Dev team, and its not exactly rocket science. I mean, Jack really can't complain about people twisting his words when he publically said "no more changes to powers" and then brought out enhancement diversification. Enhancements, off course, being the things you use to make your powers do things.

Oh, and he basically calls CoV a failure. Smooth! And admitting that basically PvP was a waste of time since the CoH playerbase really couldn't give a collective rats ass. Even better! Those crazy people on the CoH boards are going to have a freaking field-day with this.

As for those feature lists for C:O. I'll get excited when I see the game launched with them. And not a second earlier.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, but pull the fork out of your ass. Jack didn't insult anyone, he was blaming Cryptic for their design decisions, and what he said was true, the PvP was awful, anyone who tries to argue that will fail miserably. And you're doing exactly what he said people do, twisting his words: "Oh, and he basically calls CoV a failure."

Really? It sounded to me like he was disappointed that CoV didn't really make you feel like a villain, and it was essentially the same game as CoH, that's where there failure was. Not once did I see him saying "City of Villains as a whole was disappointing."

As for whether or not they'll deliver those listed features, sure, theres nothing wrong with being skeptical, but they're not owned by NC Soft anymore, they can do whatever the hell they want, chances are a lot of the things they promised for City of Heroes were cut due to budget and time restrictions. Just keep an open mind.

The team renewed its "focus on the fan" that year, too: "No more nerfs... it was driving me nuts. I just couldn't take it anymore."

Thank you NCSoft, for that mandate!

I like how Jack whines about people twisting his words when he could rarely be bothered to toss off more than the occasional one liner rather than actually comitting to communicating with honesty, clarity, and respect for your customer. Castle does it all the fucking time for the CoH Dev team, and its not exactly rocket science. I mean, Jack really can't complain about people twisting his words when he publically said "no more changes to powers" and then brought out enhancement diversification. Enhancements, off course, being the things you use to make your powers do things.

Oh, and he basically calls CoV a failure. Smooth! And admitting that basically PvP was a waste of time since the CoH playerbase really couldn't give a collective rats ass. Even better! Those crazy people on the CoH boards are going to have a freaking field-day with this.

As for those feature lists for C:O. I'll get excited when I see the game launched with them. And not a second earlier.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, but pull the fork out of your ass. Jack didn't insult anyone, he was blaming Cryptic for their design decisions, and what he said was true, the PvP was awful, anyone who tries to argue that will fail miserably. And you're doing exactly what he said people do, twisting his words: "Oh, and he basically calls CoV a failure."

Really? It sounded to me like he was disappointed that CoV didn't really make you feel like a villain, and it was essentially the same game as CoH, that's where there failure was. Not once did I see him saying "City of Villains as a whole was disappointing."

As for whether or not they'll deliver those listed features, sure, theres nothing wrong with being skeptical, but they're not owned by NC Soft anymore, they can do whatever the hell they want, chances are a lot of the things they promised for City of Heroes were cut due to budget and time restrictions. Just keep an open mind.

I try to keep my mind closed enough that my brain doesn't start flopping around on the ground. Sure, it will be awesome if those features make it into the game. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Also, Cryptic was never owned by NCSoft, they co-owned the CoH IP, split 50/50. Budget and time restrictions, technical limations, all those things are just as likely to be problematic now as they were years ago. Yes, Cryptic no longer has to run things through NCSoft, but they also no longer have any incoming revenue from subscriptions. They've got the cushion of whatever they sold the CoH IP for, minus whatever they spent to acquire the Champions IP. Money may or may not end up being an issue for them. Its possible NCSoft paid them enough that they can do whatever they want, but I don't think the payment details have come out on that.