Saturday, May 1, 2010

I am sure you noticed that I performed a gender role reversal on a song title. I think that the world would be a better place if we limited such actions to the arts.

Be that as it may, the original title, from what was arguably the last great Broadway musical, My Fair Lady, read: "Why Can't a Woman Be More Like a Man?"

This plaintive tune, sung by chronic bachelor Prof. Henry Higgins, is a sign that his pupil, one Eliza Doolittle, is touching his cold, unfeeling heart.

Of course, My Fair Lady is about transformation, but it is not about role reversal. It dramatizes the metamorphosis of a flower girl, Eliza Doolittle, into a Lady, one who can pass in society as a Hungarian princess.

Given the British propensity to classify people by their accents, Eliza's story concerns social mobility in a society that is rather too class-bound. Under the aegis of Prof. Higgins, the eminent linguist turned speech coach, Eliza overcomes her Cockney accent and learns the intonations and diction that will allow her fit in at a higher level of British society.

However much Higgins would wish that a woman were more like a man, he does succeed in making a flower girl act more like a lady.

For his pains, he develops feelings for her. Not deeply passionate feelings, but feelings nonetheless.

To fast forward to the present, I was reminded yesterday of the existence of powerful forces in Western culture that want to make men more like women.

I have occasionally suggested that when teachers and therapists try to make men more sensitive, more empathic, and more deeply feeling beings, they are effectively refusing to accept boys and men for what they are. They are trying, through psychological and other means, to make men more like women.

They believe that they are striking a role for morality, offering a cure for various pathologies, and making the world a better place. Once men can get in touch with the depths of their feelings they will be less aggressive, less predatory, and less competitive.

Forget competing against the Chinese of the Japanese. Forget fighting terrorism or crime. Men are going to feel so deeply that they are going to surpass competitive striving.

All of which to say that I was shocked to read yesterday about experiments in Germany and the United Kingdom where men were treated with a nasal spray containing the hormone oxytocin. Link here.

What is oxytocin? It is a hormone that men and women possess, but that women possess in larger quantities. According to the article, it triggers labor pains, helps mothers to bond with their babies, and produces enhanced sensitivity and empathy.

The article fails to mention that when a woman has a sexual experience her body produces extra oxytocin, thereby drawing her closer to her lover. Researchers call oxytocin the "cuddle hormone."

Oxytocin is one of the primary reasons why women who make a habit of hooking up cannot detach their emotions from their sexual experience as easily as men can.

Anyway, the experiments demonstrated that when you give men oxytocin nasal spray they become more sensitive, more empathetic, more attuned to their emotions, more easily touched by the pain of others. They pick up social cues more easily, especially those that denote pain. Men taking oxytocin nasal spray have generally deeper feelings.

To my knowledge the researchers do not note that a football player, for example, who is more deeply touched by the pain of others will quickly lose his competitive edge.

I only know what I read in the papers, but it seems never to have crossed the minds of these scientists that there may be an adaptive reason why men are not quite as sensitive and empathetic as women.

It is telling that scientists are so thoroughly steeped in knee-jerk male bashing that they do not even ask whether there might be something positive about having less oxytocin. Why do they take it for granted that male biochemistry is intrinsically maladaptive? Why do they assume that masculine behavior is something like an illness, something to be compared with the kind of social withdrawal they see in autism and schizophrenia? Why do they consider it something that requires treatment?

[A special welcome to those of you who have arrived here via Dr. Helen or Instapundit. And, of course, my special thanks to Dr. Helen Smith and Prof. Glenn Reynolds for linking this post.]

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I don't know either, other than the fact that so many people want to believe that men and women are equal in all respects. I guess it would seem easier to weaken men, than to buff up women with steroids.

"Why do they take it for granted that male biochemistry is intrinsically maladaptive? Why do they assume that masculine behavior is something like an illness, something to be compared with the kind of social withdrawal they see in autism and schizophrenia? Why do they consider it something that requires treatment?"

Because they're gay, fey, clinically insane, or have a fully colonized mind. You choose and you are not limited to one choice.

Nearly 40 years ago, I read something postulating that we were changing from a patriarchal society to a matriarchal one. It listed a series of values and fears for both types, and it was clear that the patriarchal list aligned with "old-fashioned" conservative values (e.g. concerns about honor), while the matriarchal list seemed very "progressive" and "Age of Aquarius" (e.g. concerns about fairness).

At the time, one aspect didn't fit: the pat./mat. matched fears of homosexuality and incest. Sure, fear of homosexuality fit on the old-fashioned side, but fear of incest didn't seem to fit on the other. Then, in the following decades, came a series of huge waves of concern (sometimes to point of hysterical panic) about child abuse and molestation.

In short, society seems to be changing into a more matriarchal form. (I haven't been able to find that list again, though.)

This must be predicated on the idea that women have generally deeper feelings than men; an idea I find fallacious. If women had deeper feelings than men, then they would be the ones creating the greatest literature, poetry, music, and art. That is not the case: Men compose the great symphonies, write the great novels, and create the great art - to the point that there are no female equivalents of Shakespeare, Beethoven, and Michelangelo.

Women's feelings are closer to the surface, but they are in no way deeper.

I echo Steve about Cut It's comment. Not enough data, and the possible need to be stoic as a standard emergency response cannot be ruled out. If you want a lighter interpretation of all this, Dave Barry comments humorously but accurately on the differences.

Societies need different things at different times. We may indeed be moving into a period when our economic well-being may be enhanced with traits we consider more feminine. Ten years or a hundred years from now it might swing the other way. Even if so, we will need all our virtues and styles in every era, just in different proportions. It's best not to try and monkey with these too much on our own. We don't know the future. We might soon be able to influence (not control) whether the next generation is more docile and obedient - a chilling possibility, but one that looks more attractive when you've got a couple of strong-willed kids in your particular household right this moment.

Or an excess of couples might choose to weight the scales toward independent, less-cooperative children to make them leaders. Like we need an increase in hostility around here.

Related, I just had a post today on how adaptability is going to be a quality of increasing value as we go forward.

My thanks to Assistant Village Idiot, who has a great blog himself, linked in my blogroll at left. There he offers a more detailed expression of his views.

He makes an interesting point, namely, that some cultures at different times require different qualities. And he adds that it may be that we all need to develop a softer, feminine side.

I fear that in a time of crisis, and in a time of war, we need more of a competitive, masculine spirit. I would be happy to stand corrected, but I doubt that a kinder, softer, gentler approach is going to get us out of our current mess.

I would admit that in a crisis one is tempted to hunker down, to withdraw, to wait for the storm to pass. If a hurricane were upon us we would not want to go out to fight it.

For my part I think that the initial storm has passed and that it is time to get out of the bunker and get down to work.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."--George Orwell

Nonsense. I sleep peaceably in my bed due to the shotgun I keep next to it as I sleep. That and the fact that I am all the "rough man" that I need, and I'm comfortable with the idea of doing violence on my own behalf and on behalf of my loved ones.

If the female level of oxytocin makes one overly empathtic and makes one lose one's healthy boundaries, then it is truly maladaptive and should be corrected.

Nonsense yourself, Torgo--I was trying to make the point that all those girly men so prevalent today are protected by small town boys and such who still go into the armed forces. Old school, boys who haven't had their spirit beaten out of them or been given Ritalin. Sad that those girly men look down their noses at the ones standing between them and the barbarians. I wonder sometimes if the girly men secretly realize this, and thus resent the REAL men for their manliness.

I sincerely apologize if I offended you, Darrell, and I think we agree on the important points. A home invasion in which I was only armed with a loud male voice will not happen again to me, and I'm certainly glad you keep Mr. 12 Gauge close by while you sleep.

My intent (however poorly stated) was to praise self-reliance and self-defense. That quote from the leftist Orwell has some minor truth to it, but it is grossly misleading in that it presents the false choice of "sleeping peacefully under the protection of rough men" (total strangers to you, miles away, and paid for by taxes) versus "not sleeping peacefully" (at all).

I don't trust distant strangers to look out for my best interests, and I would never advise anyone else to do so, but that is what a lot of leftists want to force us to depend on, and that is truly evil. I further would never advise anyone to join the military or police, as their bravery and naive goodwill can and will be abused by politicians.(I don't feel any safer knowing that my tax dollars are spent on keeping distant Serbs and Albanians apart, Shiites away from Sunnis, etc.)

Again, my beef was with Orwell and leftists in general, not with your ideas.

Thanks, Anonymous. That's going in my Favorites list. That was truly a moving article, and I was wrongheaded for taking Orwell's contemptuous comment personally.

I still think the sheepdogs would do well to focus their fire to protect their families and the sheep who pay their salaries, instead of (to quote Sonny Corleone) "risking their lives for strangers" under the orders of Wilsonian globalists like Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Men don't need to be made "like women" because men already ARE like women. Men and women possess equal capacities for love, compassion, violence, and visualization. But men and women are often being told that certain emotions or traits ought to be considered off-limits for them, and so they stifle them as best they can.

Yes, it's a shame too many people cannot accept men for who they are, but it's equally fallacious and insulting to say that a man who DOES show that he's a caring, nurturing human being must be a "feminized male."

Men don't need to be made "like women" because men already ARE like women. Men and women possess equal capacities for love, compassion, violence, and visualization. But men and women are often being told that certain emotions or traits ought to be considered off-limits for them, and so they stifle them as best they can.

Yes, it's a shame too many people cannot accept men for who they are, but it's equally fallacious and insulting to say that a man who DOES show that he's a caring, nurturing human being must be a "feminized male."

When women talk about wanting men to be more sensitive, what they mean is that men ought to be more sensitive to them. But it's not as though women are particularly sensitive to us men. At least, I've met very few women who know what I'm going through, much less are sympathetic to me. And on the rare occasions when I speak out, what I get is a flippant "That's your problem." After which they might as well be saying, "Now back to me and my problems."

Linda Hamilton prepared for her roleas the Uber-Buff Sarah Conner in T2by training with a real Special-Opstype; She stopped after the movie,because she found, as the Greeks warned long ago:'The mask that an actor wearsis likely to become his face.'

A woman will tire very quickly of a man who wants to cuddle longer than she does. This is the last thing that men need. We need to celebrate masculinity and acknowledge that men are different from women. Why not let them experience oxytocin to the degree that their own bodies produce it? They do get the surge during sex, it's just tamped down somewhat by testosterone. Why would we want to mess with that? I believe that if you start manipulating the levels of the hormones that control attraction and attachment, many mismatched suboptimal pairings will result. There is already ample evidence that the pill affects mating behavior in women by suppressing the normal testosterone surge at the time of ovulation. When women marry and go off the pill, they sometimes find that their partner seems less attractive. Helen Fisher of Rutgers has gone so far as to say that they have literally married the wrong man!

As person who has used oxytocin on dairy cows (when needed) for over 30 years, I have to wonder if they have thought out the potential dangers. We used oxytocin injections (1 1/2 cc in the muscle, .5 cc in the vein) to stimulate milk letdown in cows that wouldn't respond to manual stimulation.

The danger was that the cows would become "addicted", in that they sometimes would never learn to let their milk down naturally without oxytocin. The solution was often to just gradually decrease the amount administered over time, and hope that they would eventually respond naturally. Sometimes, when a cow wouldn't respond to this, I would try just jabbing them with a sharp object, to simulate an injection. (enough to feel like an injection, but not enough to draw blood) Sometimes this would work, but they still had to be poked to stimulate milk letdown, sometimes for the rest of their lives.

I could see the possibility that men exposed to oxytocin in order to stimulate emotional sensitivity may also risk the same "addiction". Possibly, they may find themselves unable to express emotions without a dose of oxytocin. I could see a whole slew of class action lawsuits coming out of that!

Did any of you actually read the BBC story? It's about a study into the potential uses of oxytocin in treating behavioural disorders. It has absolutely nothing to do with the scientific community attempting to feminise all the world's men.

Stuart Schneiderman should be ashamed of himself for presenting what is essentially a pack of lies here.

"Why do they take it for granted that male biochemistry is intrinsically maladaptive? Why do they assume that masculine behavior is something like an illness, something to be compared with the kind of social withdrawal they see in autism and schizophrenia? Why do they consider it something that requires treatment?"

I find it hard to believe that you're not being deliberately, disgracefully disingenuous here. It's quite clear that the scientists carrying out the study see autism and schizophrenia as things that require treatment. To present that as them viewing masculinity as something requiring treatment shows you to be either a liar or an idiot.

If you were that much of an idiot, I seriously doubt that you'd have the ability to work in your chosen field. So why are you lying..?

The research does suggest that it is using oxytocin to treat behavioral disorders. And then it names autism and schizophrenia... which, dare I remind you, are not behavioral disorders. They are neurological impairments. And I doubt that anyone thinks that they are psychological disorders either.

How long do you think it will take before these same scientists will discover certain aspects of male behavior to be pathological and to decide that they need to treat them with oxytocin.

Keep in mind that many psychiatric treatments began within very strictly defined clinical parameters and then got prescribed for any one of a number of conditions that they were not designed to treat.

While some children certainly suffer from ADD and ADHD, and therefore do well on Ritalin, how many other children have been prescribed the drug do not really have these problems.

There are many others. It seems that every time a new psychiatric drug is discovered the profession also discovers a large number of new patients who fit the diagnosis.

And also, keep in mind that the purveyors of leftist thought and political correctness also believe that many qualities associated with masculinity are signs of pathology. Do you think that they need more than an excuse and a subterfuge to offer medical treatment for manliness?

Or, put another way, you've just made a lot of stuff up based on your political allegiance and which has nothing, other than idle speculation, to do with the subject in question.

Your argument is just a weak slippery-slope whine. And this:

And also, keep in mind that the purveyors of leftist thought and political correctness also believe that many qualities associated with masculinity are signs of pathology.

is just meaningless, unsubstantiated sloganeering. Is it that you feel threatened in your capacity as a Life Coach that you feel the need to attack this kind of research? Honestly, when you start to bring up imaginary bogeymen, it's pretty clear you really have no argument. Unless, of course, you can provide us with evidence of these researchers believing that many qualities associated with masculinity are signs of pathology.

Their was the idea of Terra Forming. Where man would create these great machine that could transform a plant atmosphere to make it more habitable for man. Hence we have Global Warming we are doing just not by design. We then have the power to change it.

The next myth in literature is that if men got in touch with there true feelings the world would be better. We would not compete over x. However women who are in touch are very competitive with each other and down right combative of things that they want such as mate or home or children.

My thanks to Adamtwelve for continuing the discussion. Not so many thanks for his intemperate name-calling.

Anyway, I was reading a piece today in the New York Times on oxtocin, dubbed the moral molecule. If this link does not work, it's in the freakonomics blog.http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/is-there-a-moral-molecule-a-guest-post-from-neuroeconomist-paul-zak/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+FreakonomicsBlog+(Freakonomics+Blog)&utm_content=Twitter

The author, Paul Zak, contends that oxytocin inhibits testosterone and thus, by his lights, makes men more moral.

Apparently he identifies feminine traits with moral traits, and caricatures masculine traits in terms of an unbridled and corrupt tendency to manipulate markets.

Zak does not seem to understand that masculine virtue always involves a goodly quantity of sportsmanship.

Did the financial system because Wall Street bankers did not cuddle enough? Because that is one of the functions of oxytocin?

When Zak says that oxytocin makes us more likely to trust people, that can be good or bad, depending on the person.

If the question is what makes one more trustworthy, then surely, unless you want to caricature men as being hypercompetitive and untrustworthy, the virtue cannot be connected to oxytocin, except by anti-male bias.

I will grant that Zak does not say that what Wall Street bankers need is an added dose of oxytocin, it does not take too much of a jump to arrive at that conclusion.

I would have thought that Adamtwelve would have taken a look at Dr. Helen's blog, for example, where she has been at pains for many years now to demonstrate the extent of anti-male bias in our culture.

I would say the real issue here is NOT AT ALL about masculinity or femininity. That is just a red herring.

After all, if they can use one drug to make men more masculine, they can find another to make women more masculine. So there is no question of masculine strengths disappearing from the world, merely the possibility that people born male or female will no longer be shackled by their natal biochemistry. Need to bond with your newborn, read French literature or comfort a grieving spouse? Spray away. Need to take a math test, ask for a raise from your boss, confront a home invader? Spray something else. Why not?

The real is issue is, who controls access to and distribution of drugs that can change your behavior on such a fundamental level?

There are two extreme answers: one, no one should control it, it should be prohibited completely; two, the government should control it. In my opinion, both answers are dangerous, because in one case, you're giving real control of the tech to criminals, and in the other you're giving it to criminals who also administer your tax dollars.

So scary as people may find it, I think individuals are best equipped to decide if and when they want to behave in a more "masculine" or "feminine" manner. I see no reason we should be slaves to our biological bodies, as long as we are not enslaved to someone ELSE's political agenda.

This idea that women are inherently more sensitive than men is a fallacy. Individually, women possess the same capacities towards love and empathy, as well as aggression and action, that men possess. The difference lies in the realms of their expertise: men fight with fists and weapons, women with words and emotions.

Both genders can fall into the mob mentality, in a group. But in my experience, there is nothing more vicious than a pack of women. Women also arm themselves from a position of privilege- they will use insider knowledge, gleaned from a friendship, to injure their opponents. I've never known a man to do such; they don't typically gossip or slander. Well, straight men, anyway. Gay men can be as much or more vicious than women.

"Why can't a man be more like a woman?"Because the majority of us men were taught/socialized from an early age (usually by our fathers and elder male relatives) to be honest, honorable, virtuous, ethically and morally just, to be humble in victory and steadfast in defeat, and to be forgiving to a defeated and helpless enemy.Judging the majority of today's women by their actions, I can't honestly admit that I would WANT to be like them.

P.S.Probably one of the best words of wisdom I have heard are, "Strive to be greater than what you are, but never try to be that which you are NOT."

alantwelve, I have worked as a psychiatric social worker for thirty years, and can assure you that there are many professionals who do indeed regard masculine behavior as inherently pathological (though they would deny it). They are not the majority, and I have no idea how it applies to these particular researchers. But someone will do that oxytocin experiment eventually, so don't be so sure that the host is jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

BTW, when people froth, I tend to find them less, not more persuasive. Not that I haven't frothed many times myself.

Small correction - I didn't quite say that men should increase their softer, feminine side. Male affection is qualitatively different, and valuable in its own right. I was commenting on the proportion of traits masculine and feminine and how they are needed across the entire population, not the individual.

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First off, I would like to say that My Fair Lady is my favorite musical. Eliza's transformation reminds me of what an Aspergerian has to go through; adapting and transforming themselves into what society deems appropriate behavior.

Second, I think that due to oxytocin women are less likely to be diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.

I agree with you that masculine behavior should not be deemed as an illness. I'm sure there are a lot of women out there that wished they produced less oxytocin. Sometimes being too empathetic can be overwhelming. We were all created thusly for a reason.

Thanks for such a great post. Now I'm going to have to go watch My Fair Lady again. LOL

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