ATTN: Helper's

Plaka

I can't find the Topic that Wolf68k started where we all sorta decided on a time-limit to complete requests ...

1. Anyway I'm pretty sure that 1-2 hours was the agreed limit and propose that's what we stick to OK?

2. There have been a few requests recently for multiple Mission's -- in the past these have been completed by several Helper's all working together ... I have continued to try and promote that co-operation, now I think that we need an understanding ie. Maximum 2 Mission's per Helper - per request?

3. I would like to see that completing of extra, erroneous Mission's is stopped ie. N.O.E. when doing Learning To Fly, if the requester wants that done s/he can make a new Topic and the SnP's can be completed by a different Helper ... share the fun Guy's

CCPD

In official rules there is 1 hour wait time before you can do another request. Just to remind everyone. Also I really like the point number 3. I noticed that sometimes people request a single test in one of the Schools and helpers do the whole School. Just to clarify point number 2. So if someone requested three missions, the helper can do only two and then leave the remaining one to be done by someone else? What about is someone requested the whole School to be done? Does it mean that only two testes per helper or it donít apply to Schools?

I think that with growing number of helpers and really reduced number of requests those additional rules would be useful.

The Raven

Yeah, but they may annoy requesters too.Example: You are requesting a mission, but there are no helpers online that can help you. There are only few helpers that just completed their requests and you'll have to wait whole hour to get your mission completed if another helper doesn't log in.That's the bad side of this rule, nothing personal, no offense, but this can annoy many of the requesters if it happens.Anyway, now for the topic I shall say this isn't bad idea Plaka

Plaka

I've been doing SnP's for longer than most Helper's here and if thats not enough ask crazyanurag who has been making a compilation of the Stats ...

Most requesters are quite happy to have their Mission done anytime within about 12 hours, a lot log-off as soon as they post not expecting a quick reply !

Recently, I have been on-line here at GTAF at really strange times (for me) so I think I've covered all the 24 hour cycle and to date I can only remember one time when there were no Helper's on-line (except for me )

Anyway this is a discussion,and I will consider ALL opinions before WE make a JOINT decision ! I just want to make things run better for all concerned Helper's/Requesters ... gimme your feedback guys

Cycle Away

We weren't alway's Helper's ... ya never know Cycle Away might become the best Helper yet

I would really love to help people do missions but I use a crack for SA.. Which happens to be 1.0, and you cant patch cracks, I tried the SA ID Changer, Couldnt get around it ;] If I see SA somewhere real cheap I'll buy it

The Raven

I've been doing SnP's for longer than most Helper's here and if thats not enough ask crazyanurag who has been making a compilation of the Stats ...

Most requesters are quite happy to have their Mission done anytime within about 12 hours, a lot log-off as soon as they post not expecting a quick reply !

Recently, I have been on-line here at GTAF at really strange times (for me) so I think I've covered all the 24 hour cycle and to date I can only remember one time when there were no Helper's on-line (except for me )

Anyway this is a discussion,and I will consider ALL opinions before WE make a JOINT decision ! I just want to make things run better for all concerned Helper's/Requesters ... gimme your feedback guys

Man, as I said it's nothing persoal, just wanted to foresee anything.And I want to make things run better too just like you.The main reason is because I also was a requester before if you remember you passed the Chilliad Challenge for me and I thank you for that, I won't forget what you've done for me. What I mean is I know what is to be a requester and I know what is like when someone helps you. And it's very nice feeling so I'm trying to make more people feel it

Plaka

@ The_Raven, Sorry I should have added ... of course I'm not taking it personal ! and I'm very pleased to see your input from both a Requester & Helper's point of view ... I can imagine the very nice feeling from a requester it's much the same as a helper feels as you obviously know by now.

crazyanurag

wow, all the good stuff seems to happen when i'm not around...anyhow, i'll put it my two cents if no one seems to mind...

firstly, my thoughts on the points Plaka makes in the first post:

1-2 hours was the agreed limit to complete and post results for SnP requests: well, looking at Wolf's topic, where this rule was discussed, the time limit is actually 3 hours...are we sticking to that, or are we bringing that down to 2? this isn't that big a deal though, since most requests can be completed within 30-40 mins...

Maximum 2 Missions per Helper - per request: i don't really know about this one...the way i look at it is that this forum is meant for people to come and get help at...the dynamic of the SnP though, is quite alluring, and so the number of helpers has swelled over the last few months, while the requests have slowed to a crawl...but the moment you think of Mission Help from the helper's point of view, and not the requester's, you'd be taking something away from the whole idea of the SnP...for me, the best way to tackle whatever request is to post results as quickly as possible, and judging by myself, i think that can come from whoever called the SnP to complete it at one go... however, i have to concede that if i were in your position Plaka, i'd be contemplating a similar kind of rule, just to keep the activity levels at the forum high, and to satisfy the growing number of helpers...it is only because i don't always have to worry about the board's functioning that i'm afforded the luxury of having this particular view...in such a situation, my suggestion is that we can have a rule which works similar to the Chain Game...you could lower the completion time to 90 minutes, and in the case of a 'multiple request SnP', that 90min. rule would still hold, and the helper would have to post whatever he/she has been able to complete in that time...this, i think, would be fairer than having a strict embargo on the number of missions one can complete per request...to make this work, you'd also have to be intolerant of overtime, i guess...

Completing of extra, erroneous Missions to be stopped ie. N.O.E. : yeah, i guess i'm guilty of having started this trend (of completing "N.O.E." after "Learning to Fly"), which others caught on as well...my thinking, as i explained to you on MSN, was that it's redundant to complete Flying School, but not provide a link for "N.O.E.", because the requester, in all probability would have to come right back and request another mission...this'd only mean that the person wouldn't be able to carry on with his/her game right away, and would have to wait for longer...but i guess that kind of thinking is pre-emptive, and i'm sure we can do with more requests rather than limiting the possibility of the same...thus i guess we should stop doing the following, if not requested:

"N.O.E." after "Learning to Fly"

"Farewell My Love..." after "Wu Zi Mu"

getting golds in previous tests if only a particular test is requested

"New Model Army" after "Supply Lines"

QUOTE (Plaka)

Hey Guy's I'm sorry if I seem to be coming on strong ... I REALLY don't like the word Rules because I'm seeking YOUR agreement to make things better .. if you disagree I'm cool with that

woah mate, no need to apologise...i don't flatter you by saying that this remains the best run board within the SA sub-forums, and to tell you the truth, whatever rules you come up with, i'd gladly follow them by the book, because the SnP is a wonderful service which helps gamers more directly than any other method...you've made sure that this forum is run smoothly and effectively, and your judgment is something i'm forever willing to trust...

come now, the biggest problem is that there aren't nearly enough requests these days as there used to be earlier...and there are a few members, myself included, who inhabit MH like "vultures", as Wolf called us , so whatever request there is, it gets filled immediately...the only remedy would be the release of GTAIV, which isn't happening in a loo-oo-ong time, so i guess to keep a collective facility like SA MH running strong, i'd rather have a few changes, so that we can retain this community for the next game and not have a bunch of disgruntled helpers who leave because only a few people seem to corner all the requests...

P.S.

QUOTE (Plaka)

I've been doing SnP's for longer than most Helper's here and if thats not enough ask crazyanurag who has been making a compilation of the Stats ...

getting golds in previous tests if only a particular test is requested

So if someone would ask for the Driving school, and not for drivingschool gold, i'm not allowed to upgrade the missions the requester has done, so thta the school would be all gold. (mabey i misread your statement, but just to clearify)

QUOTE (Plaka @ Aug 27 2006, 23:15)

Maximum 2 Mission's per Helper - per request?

I'm not sure about this rule. I think that CrazyAnurag's suggestion would be better than this idea. Otherwise you could get the problem of "what is an mission" and so on. Than you would have to specify that precisly.

crazyanurag

getting golds in previous tests if only a particular test is requested

So if someone would ask for the Driving school, and not for drivingschool gold, i'm not allowed to upgrade the missions the requester has done, so thta the school would be all gold. (mabey i misread your statement, but just to clearify)

well, if someone asks for the entire Driving School, getting all gold or whatever is the helper's business...but if only some tests are requested, then i guess we should leave the other tests the way they are, so that we don't limit the possibility of the same person coming back later and posting a new SnP request, asking for an upgrade to gold...

quartet1977

getting golds in previous tests if only a particular test is requested

So if someone would ask for the Driving school, and not for drivingschool gold, i'm not allowed to upgrade the missions the requester has done, so thta the school would be all gold. (mabey i misread your statement, but just to clearify)

wolf68k has told me in the past not to upgrade tests previously completed unless asked to do so by the requester. since there's really no advantage in getting golds (except in flight school), that's an easy rule to comply with.

i think the two missions limit when a requester asks for multiples is all right, though i'd rather see the rule be that requesters can't ask for more than one mission at a time. while mission help's primary, well, mission is to assist folks getting through the game, it also has to encourage helpers to keep coming back and, well, helping. i've been by much less lately, because everytime i stop by all the requests have been called and/or completed. that's discouraging. so, much as i'd like to see requesters get their SnPs done as quickly as possible, i think it's important to keep the helpers in mind when deciding how to arrange the way things are done around here (which is clearly the point of this topic; just wanted to add my voice).

@crazyanurag: i'm not sure your 90 minute suggestion would work too well. how many missions, after all, can you do in 90 minutes? a lot, right? i think number of missions rather than time is a better way. but maybe the requesters should bear some of the burden of this. like i said above, why not limit them to one mission (or two at most) at a time? there are so many helpers anxious to help out, that the wait time for requests to be completed would hardly increase. does this make any sense?

how would the two mission limit work with requests for things like tags, horseshoes, etc? (by the way, those requests really bug me. if they can upload a save game, they can download SAMA and find everything on their own. i've always thought of mission help as a place for people to get help with missions they can't do on their own, not for people who are too lazy to do something for themselves. how do others feel about this?)

as for doing extra missions, i've probably done that once or twice but agree it's a bad idea. when i first played through SA, i couldn't beat flight school, and i got a helper to do it for me. for some reason, i had little trouble beating NOE. so it's wrong to assume that requesters won't want to attempt NOE simply because they had trouble with Learning to Fly.

crazyanurag

i think the two missions limit when a requester asks for multiples is all right, though i'd rather see the rule be that requesters can't ask for more than one mission at a time.

i dunno, matt...this is a forum...if we're gonna restrict what people want help with (which is essentially what phasing out a long request into singular ones would mean), would that really uphold the nature of what these boards are meant for?

QUOTE (continued)

so, much as i'd like to see requesters get their SnPs done as quickly as possible, i think it's important to keep the helpers in mind when deciding how to arrange the way things are done around here (which is clearly the point of this topic; just wanted to add my voice).

i think we're looking at this from opposite sides ...yes, it is always wise to keep the helpers in mind...but the fact remains that MH is not about the helpers, it's not...the place exists because there are requesters, and only then can helpers come in...even if you and i stop helping, you can be sure that there'll be someone to fill our shoes...

QUOTE (continued)

@crazyanurag: i'm not sure your 90 minute suggestion would work too well. how many missions, after all, can you do in 90 minutes? a lot, right? i think number of missions rather than time is a better way.

perhaps, but i'd rather have any helper get along with whatever he's called...anyhow, this is all speculative, and i'll be more than happy to follow whatever new rules are made...

QUOTE (continued)

but maybe the requesters should bear some of the burden of this. like i said above, why not limit them to one mission (or two at most) at a time? there are so many helpers anxious to help out, that the wait time for requests to be completed would hardly increase. does this make any sense?

no, not to me...i can make do with a completion-time rule, a wait-between-calls rule and whatever other little things there are which curb the number of missions a helper can complete, but to set a limit to what people in need of help can ask for defeats the very purpose of this place...it just sets a bad precedent, which i wouldn't want to be a part of...

QUOTE (continued)

how would the two mission limit work with requests for things like tags, horseshoes, etc?

i can hazard a guess...spraying tags in 1 mission, collecting horseshoes is 1 mission, and so on...

QUOTE (continued)

(by the way, those requests really bug me. if they can upload a save game, they can download SAMA and find everything on their own. i've always thought of mission help as a place for people to get help with missions they can't do on their own, not for people who are too lazy to do something for themselves. how do others feel about this?)

to be honest, matt, i think we do it because there's so little to do...i've been through the whole Stats collection, and when the requests were coming in hard and fast, very few collectibles were asked for...i think even the requesters understand that they can exploit the lack of supply of SnPs and ask for stuff they should really get themselves ...

QUOTE (continued)

it's wrong to assume that requesters won't want to attempt NOE simply because they had trouble with Learning to Fly.

i don't think anyone, barring a mistake, did it without providing two separate saves...

anyhow, this is just another one of those ATTN: Helpers topics, if you know what i mean...if there have to be rules, there have to be rules, however much Plaka may hate them...i think if an agreement has to be reached, it'll take a long time to arrive at, unless we settle for something really outlandish, like voting or whatever...i certainly don't want to spend my time here clarifying and arguing with my friends...i'd like to get on with it, and whatever's necessary for that, i give my unequivocal support to...

QUOTE (Seddo87)

its off topic but it still has to do with the SnP, when i try to help someone the game doesnt load up and then i cant help do you kno what the problem is

mate, that is off-topic...just send me a PM with your problem, and i'll tell you what to do ...

quartet1977

@crazyanurag: ok, you're right. perhaps i was just venting my frustration. i simply can't remember the last time i dropped by MH and found a mission waiting to be done. SnPs being my strongest tie to the forums, i'm feeling more and more like there's no point in visiting. alas. i guess i'll just cross my fingers and hope that a whole lot of really bad players buy the game and then join the forums desperate for a hand.

anyway, as you say, there will always be helpers ready to step in even i or you are no longer around. i hope it never comes to that - us leaving, that is. that's what the chain game is for in part, right? to keep us coming back.

thanks for responding so thoroughly to my post, anurag. as always, you're above and beyond. the forums are lucky to have you around!

Plaka

1. OK so we're all agreed to stop doing extra missions or upgrading Schools unless asked specifically to do so.

2. 1/2 Missions or 90 minutes? that seems to be the sticking point ...

The main point is yes this Mission Help Forum is for requesters but it sure as hell is for Helper's too, without whom there wouldn't be any point in people requesting right. There's basically not enough requests to go around and to keep the great Crew we've got at the moment so we need to share the Mission's.

I propose that we do a Test run for the next 7 days starting now and finishing next Monday ONLY 1 Mission per helper per request

No more extra mission's like N.O.E. etc or upgrading of School Test's unless specifically requested.

quartet1977

as part of our international coalition of helpers, i totally support the one week trial - and beyond, as well, if it works out.

anybody worried that the one mission, one helper arrangement will confuse the requesters? or should we assume that since they were smart enough to come to us in the first place, they're likely smart enough to figure out what's going on?

how 'bout we do like the chain game and not call a mission until the previous helper has posted the save game they were on?

rubregg

Well although you already have worked out fine stuff here, may I humbly add one point - when I look if there's an SnP to do for someone, I usually go by the number of replies a topic has. If there's 0 replies I know help is needed, if there's 1 or more replies I consider it done and usually don't even read the topic. So my suggestion would simply be:

The Raven

If that's the case I think it'll be better to leave the things the way they are.I haven't seen noone to complain about the current rules, but now this became a big quarrel. So, how about leaving the rules the same.I'll be agree with new ones, but what I see is everyone has a different offering about the rules and this will become a real big problem.So leaving them the way they are will make the things run normaly as always and everyone will be satisfied.I thought the point of this topic is to make things run better, but it seems the things became worse (no offense).My apologizes if I insulted somone with my words, but someone had to say it.

HerrieM

Well although you already have worked out fine stuff here, may I humbly add one point - when I look if there's an SnP to do for someone, I usually go by the number of replies a topic has. If there's 0 replies I know help is needed, if there's 1 or more replies I consider it done and usually don't even read the topic. So my suggestion would simply be:

- only 1 mission request per topic

I don't think a rule like this will catch on. Not that all of the requesters read the rules very well before posting. How often do they forget the SnP or the Request format. It would give the mods a lot more work to split up all the topics, and I don't think that's the kind of work that Plaka was looking for.

JAJ

I intend to comply with the new Helper guidelines.I'll do just one if several are requseted, wait a hour before calling another & I will not do any extra not requested missions or upgrade the schools not requested to higher medals .Ultimately, it'll make more for the helpers by sharing the multiple requests.