We thought this eventually might come but not so soon. Weistec has decided to sell a naturally aspirated tune for the M156 V8 which offers gains of 47 wheel horsepower on 91 octane, impressive. In addition to the horsepower gain torque is upped by 32 wheel, the speed limiter is removed, and the throttle response is optimized. The price is a very reasonable $990 which also is credited toward a supercharger purchase should one decide they want more power.

That was it? I assumed you figured out the only place you can't wear out your welcome, is the place you own and administer yourself.

Amusing but no, I still participate on several other forums. Sometimes you just become a polarizing figure and there is nothing you can do to change presumptions so I would rather just prove I can do a better job on forums than they can. If I had IB's pockets...

Believe it or not, I am pulling for you. I think you're stubborn as a mule and can be difficult to get along with, but that doesn't mean I don't want to read about your 9.x @ 14x.xx pass and congratulate you for it. In the end, we're all car guys/gals, or we wouldn't be here.

Believe it or not, I am pulling for you. I think you're stubborn as a mule and can be difficult to get along with, but that doesn't mean I don't want to read about your 9.x @ 14x.xx pass and congratulate you for it. In the end, we're all car guys/gals, or we wouldn't be here.

You guys crack me up. I'm off to get some drinks and hit on some women, you all have fun.

What I mean is there is no magic. There is no crank manipulation going on. There is no unhealthy car being used. There is nothing wrong at all here except for you missing that the dyno runs were done with a car with aftermarket filters and this forced you to backtrack from your original statement that this was unlikely and improbable.

Bro... I think we're misunderstanding the whole magic thing. When I said there is no magic, I meant there is no "magic" tuning wand. It was in reply to your "their doing things with tuning that other tuners can't" type of stuff. And my reply is if whatever magic they've done, the gains came out still within range of other tuners.

Originally Posted by Sticky

I see, so this is very impressive for a tune and filters is it not?

How could it be if other tuners' tunes are showing comporable gains

Originally Posted by Sticky

I don't like when someone says I did something wrong when I did not. I did not miss anything because once again I reminded you, not the other way around.

Never said you did anything wrong.... never even blamed you for it, but all of a sudden you got sensitive about it and asked for apologies and stuff.... very unlike you to be honest.

[QUOTE=Sticky;225298]Ok, thanks. So the charcoal element is not a part of the stock filter? It is in addition to the filter? On the M3 changing the filter removed the charcoal filter. No aftermarket filter includes a charcoal element in its composition I figured this was the same. There are two parts on the M156?

I don't know why you assumed installing aftermarket filters would remove the charcoal element on all cars, but yes, there are two sets of filters on the M156.... the charcoal filters are 100% separate from the regular air filters and one can easily remove one without affecting the other. Dynos have shown that removing the charcoal filters could gain anywhere from 0 whp to about 20 whp (but those are the extremes). Most dynos fall within 7 to 10 whp gain. Aftermarket filters, on the other hand, have shown anywhere from 5 to 12 whp (those are the ones I've seen personally). That's why I think it's a good idea to list some of these details of the package somewhere.... even better, it'd be awesome to see what the tune by itself can do, so that it is easier for consumers to compare the gains directly to other companies and make an educated decision.

Originally Posted by Sticky

My opinion is such that reading the graph eliminates any ambiguity. We don't need to start with fine print now do we? It's not too much to ask for people to look over what is there.

It's not just fine print.... it's direct details that would reflect the package specs.

Originally Posted by Sticky

I did not like that you stated I did not do something I actually did and tried to point the finger at me, not cool. It isn't a big deal but still...

Well no worries bro.... and again, I didn't point fingers, I just found it surprising that you took that long after you had already replied a couple of times to bring it up.

This is a good point in that the air resistance will change. When saying equal circumstances the implication is DA and traction.

I understand that certain people may take "equal circumstances" to mean everything be equal unless stated otherwise, but that's why I think it would be more beneficial to explicitly state everything as clear as possible.

Originally Posted by Sticky

The difference in air resistance offered by 10 hp won't be enough to radically change anything as it will be ~1 mph. 101 vs. 102 isn't really a huge difference like 101 vs. 150. Obviously the resistance grows geometrically and that is why it is a rough rule of thumb. The point stands that even 1 horse makes a difference at 150 mph of trap speed as it has to. Any equation in relation to this will show that, it is a mathematical relationship that is undeniable.

I think you may have understood my point. What I was trying to say was that a car that traps 149 mph may need an X amount of horsepower to be able to reach 150 mph at the end of the 1/4 mile while a car that traps 100 mph may need a much smaller number than X to show the same gain of 1 mph at the end of the 1/4 mile. Since air resistance increases so much at higher speeds, it could (on some occasions) cancel the gains or at least render them marginal or even undetectable. My Bugatti example shows that the car needed an exponentially higher number of power to reach 50% less speed differential than the initial 155 mph.

Originally Posted by Sticky

His implication was that "I would be surprised" it won't show. No, I'm not surprised at all that large temps, mechanical malfunctions, or other variables will have an affect. My point is that if these variables are equal a strip will function just like a dyno in reflecting the gains. Once again, it is a mathematical relationship and actually quite simple.

These factors are actually included in the mathematical euations as well. However, please note that it maybe near impossible to fix every single condition and factor at the track strip as real world conditions are too complex and too difficult to control. As a result, many of those factors could (realistically) prevent a 10 whp gain on the dyno to show meaningful gains on the track strip.

Never really gave it that much thought as I don't pay much attention to it or use it. Clearly you do....LOL.

Shouldnt be to hard for you! Ohhh!! LOL

Good times.

8 second Camaro? Thats moving. The context I was speaking of about the 12-14 second vehicles was the experience of the people with low ET vehicles and the HP needed to go beyond the resistances at those speeds. At those ET's it doesnt take much to see results. Adding 10 whp will 100% make a difference. That is why I said they didnt have the experience.

Shouldnt be to hard for you! Ohhh!! LOLGood times. 8 second Camaro? Thats moving. The context I was speaking of about the 12-14 second vehicles was the experience of the people with low ET vehicles and the HP needed to go beyond the resistances at those speeds. At those ET's it doesnt take much to see results. Adding 10 whp will 100% make a difference. That is why I said they didnt have the experience.

Speaking of 8 sec cars what time you leaving for MIR 9:30 this mourning da was -1700. Why can't I get that type a day!!!!!

Bro... I think we're misunderstanding the whole magic thing. When I said there is no magic, I meant there is no "magic" tuning wand. It was in reply to your "their doing things with tuning that other tuners can't" type of stuff. And my reply is if whatever magic they've done, the gains came out still within range of other tuners.

I want to make it clear that Weistec has a grasp of this ECU that others do not so you will see some things previously thought to be impossible from them (superchargers, strong NA tunes, CARB cert., etc.)

Originally Posted by Exeenom

How could it be if other tuners' tunes are showing comporable gains

You said other gains were tune only? I asked who has shown more on 91 octane with filters and don't have anything to look at yet?

Originally Posted by Exeenom

Never said you did anything wrong.... never even blamed you for it, but all of a sudden you got sensitive about it and asked for apologies and stuff.... very unlike you to be honest.

It was unlike you to make such a blatant error twice and try to blame me on response time? How can you blame me for pointing this out in the beginning of the thread but you not picking up on it toward the back of it and missing that I pointed it out? Huh? I was just surprised you did not take responsibility for your statement accusing me of not saying anything when I did. That is what I wanted to make clear and you still haven't taken responsibility instead are saying I did not correct you fast enough...

Originally Posted by Exeenom

I don't know why you assumed installing aftermarket filters would remove the charcoal element on all cars, but yes, there are two sets of filters on the M156.... the charcoal filters are 100% separate from the regular air filters and one can easily remove one without affecting the other. Dynos have shown that removing the charcoal filters could gain anywhere from 0 whp to about 20 whp (but those are the extremes). Most dynos fall within 7 to 10 whp gain. Aftermarket filters, on the other hand, have shown anywhere from 5 to 12 whp (those are the ones I've seen personally). That's why I think it's a good idea to list some of these details of the package somewhere.... even better, it'd be awesome to see what the tune by itself can do, so that it is easier for consumers to compare the gains directly to other companies and make an educated decision.

I'm glad you clarified it. My assumption was based on my experience with charcoal filters in my car. I do not have an M156 but do know the Germans use charcoal filters these days.

Regarding your tune only comments, perhaps to allow the changes they want to make stock intake airflow becomes a considerable restriction and it makes the most sense to use aftermarket filters?

Originally Posted by Exeenom

It's not just fine print.... it's direct details that would reflect the package specs.

Direct details are right there on the graph. You are asking for fine print because you missed it as if this would somehow alleviate your error in retrospect. The information is right there on the graph detailing the runs, seriously. Anything further requires some effort on your part.

Originally Posted by Exeenom

Well no worries bro.... and again, I didn't point fingers, I just found it surprising that you took that long after you had already replied a couple of times to bring it up.

This seems to be your defense, it's weird. Took long? With what? I told you on the top of page 2 which was the beginning of the thread and you didn't pick up on it for 4 pages... If I mentioned it earlier you somehow would not have missed it then?

I understand that certain people may take "equal circumstances" to mean everything be equal unless stated otherwise, but that's why I think it would be more beneficial to explicitly state everything as clear as possible.

You received the clarification you needed then. I think you guys are smart enough to not have everything spelled out and do not need your hands held but it seems I may need to start approach things differently for some.

Originally Posted by Exeenom

I think you may have understood my point. What I was trying to say was that a car that traps 149 mph may need an X amount of horsepower to be able to reach 150 mph at the end of the 1/4 mile while a car that traps 100 mph may need a much smaller number than X to show the same gain of 1 mph at the end of the 1/4 mile. Since air resistance increases so much at higher speeds, it could (on some occasions) cancel the gains or at least render them marginal or even undetectable. My Bugatti example shows that the car needed an exponentially higher number of power to reach 50% less speed differential than the initial 155 mph.

No, did not misunderstand your point at all as first of all I mentioned the air resistance grows with speed in the statement you quoted and secondly it was already demonstrated earlier in the thread that at 150 mph with a 1000 horsepower car instead of roughly 10 whp it will take about 16 whp to gain a MPH, huge difference eh? So what is the misunderstanding again?

Additionally, it was shown that even on a huge HP car a slight horsepower increase has to have an effect so once again my point is proven.

Originally Posted by Exeenom

These factors are actually included in the mathematical euations as well. However, please note that it maybe near impossible to fix every single condition and factor at the track strip as real world conditions are too complex and too difficult to control. As a result, many of those factors could (realistically) prevent a 10 whp gain on the dyno to show meaningful gains on the track strip.

Real world conditions can't be controlled because we don't have control of the weather but we can adjust as the NHRA already does based on a simple mathmatical formula. You are familiar with DA correction. Nothing will prevent a 10 whp gain from showing in the same conditions. On the same day at the track (without mechanical failure which should be obvious) you will see a difference in those conditions adding 10 whp. Subtract 10 whp and it's the same. You may not see a difference from a different day in different conditions which of course is obvious but the horses are still having an impact as without them in those same conditions the vehicle will be weaker. There is no way this can not happen as already proven although it should have been obvious especially for seasoned drag racers.