The following problem with Fedora has never happened when I have used RH 6 or RH 7.1 on a variety of machines.

I have had Fedora freeze the machine entirely – so that the machine only responds to a power down then reboot. This hang can happen after 10 minutes of Fedora use or an hour or two. It happens often. I have searched the news groups for this as a known problem -but can't find any description close.

The only pattern I can find to what happens before the freeze is that I MIGHT be scrolling in Nautilis or Mozilla browser or an Open Office document. Hence,this is unlikely to be an application problem.However, as my most frequent action in Fedora is scrolling through files or Web Pages this "connection" might be a red herring.

I have downloaded the latest kernel using up2datefairly recently. If I try to download ALL rpm packages in one go then download hangs and / or many unresolved dependencies occur - so I now add them one by one - tedious but more reliable.

How do I search in Fedora for any relevant diagnostics for this "hang" problem? Where do I post a description of the problem? On this mailing list?

Machine successfully and stably dual boots XP Pro(latest maintenance applied) and has never hung with that OS - so I don't think the hardware is the cause.

Any suggestions please on how to isolate (and fix!!) the problem?

Thanks

Clive

:confused:

Qchem

20th February 2004, 12:42 PM

Are you using a mirror for up2date?? If not, thats probably whats causing the up2date problems.

I'm a bit stumpd with the hanging, can you access any virtual terminals (Ctrl-Alt-F1) when the hang occurs?

clive_long

21st February 2004, 10:27 AM

Status of machine after Linux / Fedora hang.

No keyboard or mouse input is accepted - the screen image remains displayed.

The only input accepted is to power down by holding down the power key.

Currently I am using Win XP on my laptop. I want to migrate to Linux and Open Office to support this software - and I will even accept a few application problems - but this machine hang is forcing me back to WinXP.

I am willing to raise a bug(Zilla ??) report but I don't have any diagnostic material other than "machine hangs" - so that description won't give anyone much to diagnose and fix the problem.

2. Regarding up2date - I just let the installed software select the "target" site from which to download the rpms. I will take a closer look at the source of the rpms and report.

Clive

mhelios

21st February 2004, 10:56 AM

clive_long,
I would suspect an X server problem. Are you running the standard XFree86 drivers shipped with FC1 or vendor drivers from nVidia, ATI etc? Have a look in your /var/log/XFree86.0.log file for anything interesting. Drop back to runlevel 3 with no X and test things out.

As for the up2date, issues, chaging to a mirror closest to you would be a good idea.

clive_long

25th February 2004, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by mhelios
clive_long,

I would suspect an X server problem. Are you running the standard XFree86 drivers shipped with FC1 or vendor drivers from nVidia, ATI etc?

>>>>>>>>>>
I am running the FC1 code with only ogle added. No 3rd party drivers
>>>>>>>>>>

Have a look in your /var/log/XFree86.0.log file for anything interesting. Drop back to runlevel 3 with no X and test things out.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have looked in this log, there are no time stamps to identify the problems. What do I look for in the log or do I just post the last 10 lines? Surely after I restart Linux the new "instance" will append new messages to the end of the log - so without timestamps I can't identify the activity at the time of the freeze ?? I can't really fall back to no-X as all the applications I use are X-based.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for the up2date, issues, chaging to a mirror closest to you would be a good idea.

>>>>>>>>>
I will look at that after I get the freeze / hang sorted out
>>>>>>>>>

Bana

26th February 2004, 02:08 AM

Hmm, after a crash, boot without X so that you can look at your log file without the new stuff in it by following these directions:

Had probs with mine booting into X cause of the Radeon 9800 Pro .. here's what to do to get to the prompt.

boot up
when grub pops up press e
use the arrow keys to gotot the second line it should look something like this

"kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.22-1.2115.nptl ro root=LABEL=/ rhgb"

press e again (this enable you to edit the line

change the line t look like this ;

"kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.22-1.2115.nptl ro root=LABEL=/ rhgb init 3"

remove the " 's

press enter
then press b to boot
Try using joe to read the text file (ie: joe <name of file>) It is easier to use than vim (supposedly) and shouldn't be that hard to learn the basics.

Then you should be able to look for the lines that start with a (WW) or (EE) for warnings and errors respectively (unless I am thinking of a different log file). HTH.

clive_long

27th February 2004, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Bana
Hmm, after a crash, boot without X so that you can look at your log file without the new stuff in it by following these directions:

Try using joe to read the text file (ie: joe <name of file>) It is easier to use than vim (supposedly) and shouldn't be that hard to learn the basics.

Then you should be able to look for the lines that start with a (WW) or (EE) for warnings and errors respectively (unless I am thinking of a different log file). HTH.

OK - I just got a hang in Fedora on the T21

I copied the X log file and it is attached to this posting. I can't see anything that indicates a failure in X. The power messages at the end of the log are where I am trying to power down the laptop to restart it.

Where else can I now look?

Should I raise a bugzilla? Incidently when I tried to raise a bug before, I got all kinds of script errors from trying to run the reporting form - most frustrating !!

Thanks in anticipation

Clive, UK :rolleyes:

clive_long

27th February 2004, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by mhelios

As for the up2date, issues, chaging to a mirror closest to you would be a good idea.

I would like to update to a UK mirror - I'm only getting 6kb/sec download speed - but I can't work out how to make this change.

Can you help?

Thanks

Clive

mhelios

28th February 2004, 06:45 AM

Clive,

An easy to folllow tutorial for doing this can be found at here:
http://fedoranews.org/contributors/alexander_dalloz/mirror/
Any troubles with it, just post here.

As for your main troubles with freezing, these things can be really hard to pin down. Your XFree86 log looks fine to me. Maybe you could scan through your /var/log/messages for anything possibly helpful?
If you can gather as much info as you can on it, then a bugzilla report would be ideal. (There may already be one in there you can cosult if you can pinpoint the problem source.)

clive_long

28th February 2004, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by mhelios
Clive,

An easy to folllow tutorial for doing this can be found at here:
http://fedoranews.org/contributors/alexander_dalloz/mirror/
Any troubles with it, just post here.

As for your main troubles with freezing, these things can be really hard to pin down. Your XFree86 log looks fine to me. Maybe you could scan through your /var/log/messages for anything possibly helpful?
If you can gather as much info as you can on it, then a bugzilla report would be ideal. (There may already be one in there you can cosult if you can pinpoint the problem source.)

2. Hang / freeze: Still happening frequently - I have downloaded latest XFree modules - but no improvement. I have copied what I believe to be the relevant files from var/log. I have concatenated these log files into one file, as I could not find a way to attach multiple files - sorry if that makes them difficult to read. The contents are as in the order of the file name. I will also try to raise a bugzilla (if the form now works) and post the log files to that.

Clive
:eek:

clive_long

28th February 2004, 01:04 PM

Log File attachment missing from previous post for some reason

mhelios

28th February 2004, 05:38 PM

Clive, I can't spot anything going on in your files..A couple missing modules that aren't significant...a warning from apmd that the battery os almost empty...but nothing seemingly important.
This is a real pain in the derriere becuase it could be so many thngs...ACPI/APM, kernel related, X server related..
Might I suggest either two things:
An upgrade to FC2 -test1 to find out if your problem has been "magically" fixed with some unknown update.
Or an upgrade to kernel 2.6 in FC1. There's a HOWTO I posted in the how-to forum if you're interested..

Sorry, but I'm all outta ideas :o

clive_long

29th February 2004, 09:13 AM

OK,

I might be able to set aside a couple of hours to try the new Fedora kernel - but I am not optimistic that it will fix the problem as we haven't isolated the failing component.

:confused:

This will be the last throw of the dice then I will need to defect to the Debian or Suse camp to make any use of Linux.

Thanks so far.

Clive

clive_long

29th February 2004, 10:51 AM

This is hopeless. This is my fourth attempt to log this record - Linux freezing within 5 minutes of start up !!

I installed kernel 2.6.3 carefully following the instructions

I booted from GRUB - and there were a few "wrinkles" in the boot messages - may due to errors or ommissions in the instructions - but nothing that stopped command line startup

I then started X which crashed immediately. I have fallen back to 2.4 kernel - with the latest XFree86 installed.

I have copied and cut down the X and message log files to try to get the essential messages. Log files attached

Clive

mhelios

29th February 2004, 11:48 AM

Clive,
I understand your frustration with this. Reading through the thread again, I have a couple new suggestions I'd like you to try one by one to try and isolate the problem.

These are all kernel options that you should add to the kernel line when your reach the GRUB menu by pressing "a" and adding them at the end of the line.

Ok, first try the option "apm=off" to see if APM is the culprit.
Still have hangs, then add "nohlt".
Lastly try "acpi=off".

If all these don't fix it ( hopefully they do!), pop in your Fedora CD1 and run "memtest86" from the prompt to determine if you have faulty memory.

Good luck!

clive_long

29th February 2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by mhelios
Clive,
I understand your frustration with this. Reading through the thread again, I have a couple new suggestions I'd like you to try one by one to try and isolate the problem.

These are all kernel options that you should add to the kernel line when your reach the GRUB menu by pressing "a" and adding them at the end of the line.

Ok, first try the option "apm=off" to see if APM is the culprit.
Still have hangs, then add "nohlt".
Lastly try "acpi=off".

If all these don't fix it ( hopefully they do!), pop in your Fedora CD1 and run "memtest86" from the prompt to determine if you have faulty memory.

Good luck!

I have taken a slightly different root for now.

Being a stubborn and not to be defeated chappie I actually looked at the latest log I posted - it seemed to indicate lots of warnings and errors relating to the Savage video card. I did a bit more browsing and found many postings saying the Savage IX driver was a bit of a bodge and unreliable. So I have fallen back to the Generic VESA driver by running redhat-conf-xfree (or whatever it is called). I am running that X config now and I will persist until / if I get another hang.

I tried to boot kernel 2.6.3 with the generic VESA - and got all different errors.

So -- I will see if Generic VESA is stable with 2.4 on the T21 then go back to 2.6 and post the errors starting X under that kernel.

Oh joy, oh rapture.

:D

clive_long

29th February 2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by clive_long
I have taken a slightly different root for now.

Being a stubborn and not to be defeated chappie I actually looked at the latest log I posted - it seemed to indicate lots of warnings and errors relating to the Savage video card. I did a bit more browsing and found many postings saying the Savage IX driver was a bit of a bodge and unreliable. So I have fallen back to the Generic VESA driver by running redhat-conf-xfree (or whatever it is called). I am running that X config now and I will persist until / if I get another hang.

I tried to boot kernel 2.6.3 with the generic VESA - and got all different errors.

So -- I will see if Generic VESA is stable with 2.4 on the T21 then go back to 2.6 and post the errors starting X under that kernel.

Oh joy, oh rapture.

:D

Progress!
:cool:
I have been running the 2.4.x kernel with X display set as generic VESA for a couple of hours. No hangs !! The only problem I have encountered so far is that the viewable area using ogle (DVD viewer) is ,say, 50% of the fullscreen area. A bit like a postcard viewable area on an A4 sheet of paper. The Savage "driver" under X, delivers full screen video - but is of course, probably the cause for the machine hang.

So I will try to use the Linux 2.4 as my "work-space" for at least another day.

I have tried starting X with the 2.6.3 kernel and the same X parameters (Generic VESA) but the screen gets "messed" after startx and I'm back into a "hard" lock up.

What I will do is copy the relevant log files (I'm getting good at that) from startx under 2.6.3 and try to submit a bugzilla (a first!) then post the bugzilla number to this thread then "retire" this thread.

Using redhat-config-xfree86 I see there is a "dual head option" - I never got that to work the way I wanted under XP - let's see if Linux can run two different desktops on the laptop and the external screen simultaneously. Applications? Simultaneous "Local" and "global" views of changes to documents and images on separate screens would be very useful. Also one screen as the "local" console and the other as the screen for the remote devices being monitored, small windows that can be zoomed when needed. Lovely Linux.

CRL

mhelios

29th February 2004, 03:13 PM

Clive,
Glad to see things are not hanging, albeit with a generic driver!
As for setting up dual head, there's a tutorial you may be interested in here:
http://fedoranews.org/hoyt/multi-head/
Scroll to the bottom to read about using the redhat-config-xfree86 tool first. If you find things don't work with that tool, follow the steps outlined from the start to hack the XF86Config file yourself.

clive_long

1st March 2004, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by mhelios
Clive,
Glad to see things are not hanging, albeit with a generic driver!
<<cut >>.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I can pretty much wind this up. However, I need to open a new question regarding errors under the 2.6 kernel I just downloaded. That will be separate from this thread.

Attached is a copy of e-mail I sent to Tim Roberts - who supplies the most up-to-date version of the Savage drivers.. Tim's site highly recommended for anyone with problems with this video card.

I suppose the distributions need to pick up Tim's latest driver.

Anyway , quote ......

Tim,

First of all thanks for the development you have done on the Linux Savage Video driver

I downloaded Fedora Core 1 to run on an IBM T21. The machine hung within a few minutes of running any application under X.

With great help from the Fedora help groups I isolated the fault to the video / X.

Along the way I downloaded the latest XFree86 (4.3) and the latest 2.6.3 kernel. I also found your site http://www.probo.com/timr/savage40.html and downloaded (quote from log)

SAVAGE: driver (version 1.1.27t) for S3 Savage chipsets:

Current state of play:

Basically your Savage driver replaced the Fedora delivered version and seems to have fixed the system freeze under kernel 2.4.22 and XFree 4.3.0

1. However, there is an "artefact" with this
configuration. The "X" cursor remains as a "shadow" on the screen - so I limit the impact by moving the cursor to the bottom right-hand corner of the screen at X start up. The Arrow cursor functions perfectly.

2. On your Web site you state Linux support is moving to S3 - it's not clear to me if this is for all Savage video cards - or where to post error reports. If you don't deal with bugs then please redirect me (and note on your Web site) how bugs should be reported.

3. When I run kernel 2.6.x with XFree86 4.3.0 and your driver (may be also the VESA generic driver) then X crashes at start-up. I guess I report that through the X news groups or bugzilla (never done that before).

Hope this e-mail of some use and thanks anyway

Clive

mhelios

1st March 2004, 02:21 PM

Great to see that you took the time to detail this info to Tim Roberts. :) This is an example of helping out the linux community; especially FC, which can only lead to less problems for people in the future (even if it took took your arm and leg in the process!). Hopefully, the Savage driver issues will be addressed for upcoming FC2.

Harryc

21st August 2004, 09:50 PM

This is discouraging :(. I specifically bought a Thinkpad T-21 to run Fedora Core 2, and I get the same intermitent freezes with nothing logged. Apparently this was never fixed in FC2, all kernels. clive_long, any additional information since you posted this?. I am in a quandry about what distro/kernel to run now. Suggestions? I applaud your persistance with thi s bug.

tashirosgt

21st August 2004, 10:54 PM

One simple test is to go to system, preferences, screensaver and run various screensavers. I've had systems that ran the first few ok and then froze on ant spotlight. The freezing was just caused by the screensaver. I had to change video cards.

Harryc

21st August 2004, 11:05 PM

One simple test is to go to system, preferences, screensaver and run various screensavers. I've had systems that ran the first few ok and then froze on ant spotlight. The freezing was just caused by the screensaver. I had to change video cards.Thanks for the tip, I have seen this same issue, but the random freezes mainly occur while browsing the web using Firefox or Mozilla. Getting a new video card is a tough assignment for a laptop ;).

Helker

31st July 2007, 07:36 PM

I am resuming this very old thread because I have got the very same problem:

My system hangs randomly when I scroll web pages (Either with the mouse wheel or the scroll bar).

I cannot find any other pattern to this problem other than the web pages scrolling...

I am using Fedora Core 7 with the NVidia drivers from the livna repository and all the latest updates.

AMCC

19th March 2008, 11:11 AM

I All.

I'm a newbie on Fedora (and linux for that matter) and I usually develop hardware, but during my tests I was getting really disturbed because Fedora Core 7 sometimes hanged with my recently, untested hardware... I blamed my hardware (of course).
BUT, when it started to hang without him, I tried to look for other causes and I found out this thread...

Helker as posted a new thread in 2007... but no one answer :-(.

Does any body had this problem more recently?

Thank you very much.
AMCC

Helker

19th March 2008, 12:44 PM

I All.

I'm a newbie on Fedora (and linux for that matter) and I usually develop hardware, but during my tests I was getting really disturbed because Fedora Core 7 sometimes hanged with my recently, untested hardware... I blamed my hardware (of course).
BUT, when it started to hang without him, I tried to look for other causes and I found out this thread...

Helker as posted a new thread in 2007... but no one answer :-(.

Does any body had this problem more recently?

Thank you very much.
AMCC

Since I switched to Fedora 8, I did not expedience this problem that often. It still freezes sometimes, but it generally recovers after some seconds. I still do not know what causes the freezes...