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Well, its not like Suzu ACTUALLY tried to KILL Lulu, and tried to give him a peaceful life, but then again, he did have part in taking Nunally away and giving some shouta boy for a replacement (Rollo).

The circumstances behind how Lulu got to his brainwashed state is still unknown. At the very least, Suzaku sold Lulu out to the Emperor. An it's doubtful Suzaku had any idea that the Emperor had a geass at the time so he might have been selling Lelouch out just to obtain his Knight of the Round rank.

The circumstances behind how Lulu got to his brainwashed state is still unknown. At the very least, Suzaku sold Lulu out to the Emperor. An it's doubtful Suzaku had any idea that the Emperor had a geass at the time so he might have been selling Lelouch out just to obtain his Knight of the Round rank.

well, I think turn 2 more or less clarified all that. We'll fill in the final piece of the gap between R1 and R2 (how Lelouch ended up with Rollo at Ashford Academy) next week.

though I doubt Suzaku had much to do with that part, it'll at least show how much he's aware or unaware of about Lelouch at the moment.

Maybe you're right.
Now Suzaku is the Knight of 7: such high position could help him to change something in the world ( IF he still wants it, because after euphie's death he was pretty broken down emotionally ). At least he isn't na´ve anymore.

As to why my hate for Suzaku burns with the power of a galactic core gamma ray, its sort of a gut reaction. I really, really dislike the paladin archetype, and he fits many of the more annoying tropes of that, while simultaneously assisting in the depopulation of civilian areas. Also, and perhaps this is a geographical thing, but he strikes me as something we southerners call a "House Slave". He is disturbingly ok with Britannians abusing/murdering/tyrannizing his own people, and this just gets right under my skin. Seems wrong somehow.

He is NOT ok with it. Seriously. If you think that, better rewatch him again. What he dislikes is violence, but at the same time dislikes discrimination.

But to him violence is the greater evil because it leads to more violence. (For those that say "then why does he fight"; he fights because he knows he can stop the violence from spiraling out of control if he defeats those that start the violence, which is what law enforcement basically is.)

That's why he wants a change from the inside, a method that would basically be less violent than open rebellion.

Because like what happened in season 1 to season 2, violent uprisings leads to even more brutal repressions until the "innate" violence has been supressed out of the rebels.

Well, its not like Suzu ACTUALLY tried to KILL Lulu, and tried to give him a peaceful life, but then again, he did have part in taking Nunally away and giving some shouta boy for a replacement (Rollo).

Lesson learned: Do not piss of Suzaku
He will dode your bullet, kick you in the face, humiliate you in front of your subordinate and your father while man handling you, then sell you off for a higher status. Once your memory's been wiped, he will replace your cute little sister with a shota boy who's actually a teleporting super assasin.

Wouldn't discrimination lead to more discrimination as well? And isn't there a chance that the discrimination would lead to more violence?And isn't Suzaku perpetuating violence himself by killing people? You could argue that it's law enforcement but keep in mind he's in the army and not the police force, but the methods the Britainnian army implements at times are way too brutal to be called any form of justice.

My opinion is that the discrimination is the root cause of all the violence in Britainnian areas. Suzaku (in season 1) was merely trying to treat the symptoms without treating the cause, or maybe he couldn't treat it. The way the two chars approach the situation reminds me of this particular analogy. If the violence/unrest/discrimination was like a form of cancer, Lelouch and the OoTBK would be like the surgical option of removing the cancer. Just go in and cut it out if possible. Suzaku is more like the medicinal approach

Wouldn't discrimination lead to more discrimination as well? And isn't there a chance that the discrimination would lead to more violence?And isn't Suzaku perpetuating violence himself by killing people? You could argue that it's law enforcement but keep in mind he's in the army and not the police force, but the methods the Britainnian army implements at times are way too brutal to be called any form of justice.

Suzaku is working for a force he thinks cannot be beaten, something he admitted to Toudou himself in their duel. If that is the case, then lessening the violence by beating the ones who are "uselessly wasting" their lives and getting innocent Elevens involved in their actions is a sacrifice worth doing.

Because in Suzaku's mind, Britannia will still defeat the rebels in the end (ALL of the Black Knights thought this way even during episode 18 to 20) and hence, the perpetrated violence is just plain "useless" instead of actually helpful.

THAT is Suzaku's justice. And all justice is relative so it would be better not to start any namecalling about what and what is not justice.

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My opinion is that the discrimination is the root cause of all the violence in Britainnian areas. Suzaku (in season 1) was merely trying to treat the symptoms without treating the cause, or maybe he couldn't treat it. The way the two chars approach the situation reminds me of this particular analogy. If the violence/unrest/discrimination was like a form of cancer, Lelouch and the OoTBK would be like the surgical option of removing the cancer. Just go in and cut it out if possible. Suzaku is more like the medicinal approach

Yeah, but discrimination CAN fade away. Through acceptance and through a good amount of luck. Besides, for every racist Britannian he's ever met, he also knows that there are good people in that country and at the very least, people who don't care at all and are just practical people.

And that's where Suzaku got lucky. He eventually met kind hearted and/or pragmatic Britannians that didn't really care if you are an Eleven.

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This reminds me of Celestial Beings: Using violence to react to violence. Where is Setsunaaaaaaaa>_________<

But unlike Celestial Being, Britannia is entire country that has billions of people depending on its stability.

Lesson learned: Do not piss of Suzaku
He will dode your bullet, kick you in the face, humiliate you in front of your subordinate and your father while man handling you, then sell you off for a higher status. Once your memory's been wiped, he will replace your cute little sister with a shota boy who's actually a teleporting super assasin.

Suzaku is working for a force he thinks cannot be beaten, something he admitted to Toudou himself in their duel. If that is the case, then lessening the violence by beating the ones who are "uselessly wasting" their lives and getting innocent Elevens involved in their actions is a sacrifice worth doing.

Because in Suzaku's mind, Britannia will still defeat the rebels in the end (ALL of the Black Knights thought this way even during episode 18 to 20) and hence, the perpetrated violence is just plain "useless" instead of actually helpful.

THAT is Suzaku's justice. And all justice is relative so it would be better not to start any namecalling about what and what is not justice.

That's all well and good, but not even the biggest Suzaku fan can defend his action of participating in the invasion of Europe.

Unless you think Europe, which had been holding Brittania back for decades, will lose anyway because "Britannia couldn't be beaten", and they should all just die under Suzaku's sword for his benefit?

I thought OotBK was more like Celestial Beings. They're both trying to change the world no matter what. Suzaku's just trying to calm the world by force.

Does anyone know if Suzaku's aware of the state Area 11's in? I mean it's way worse than the start of R1.

He doesn't care what state it's in. Suzaku has no intention of helping anyone for real, he just want to keep fighting until he dies, at which point the world's troubles would have nothing more to do with him.
He want Zero dead first, of course. Though it beats me why he let Lulu live the first time.

My theory is that his desire to see Britannia conquer the planet in order to justify him killing his father is still there, and it is a stronger desire than avenging Euphie. Hence he want to join the Knights of the Round and help burn the rest of the world to the ground.

That's all well and good, but not even the biggest Suzaku fan can defend his action of participating in the invasion of Europe.

Unless you think Europe, which had been holding Brittania back for decades, will lose anyway because "Britannia couldn't be beaten", and they should all just die under Suzaku's sword for his benefit?

Ah, but that is altogether now a different matter. The biggest mistake people do with Suzaku is they mix up what he does with what he thinks. (Also, his past actions with his reformed actions. Suzaku's dynamic character will disallow people from correctly analyzing him until the very end.)

And I was only talking about why Suzaku does enforce the orders as a Britannian soldier on Japan.

Europe is NOT Japan.

For the Europe part, Suzaku is His Imperial Majesty's Knight. As a soldier, it's his job to mess them up if he wants to keep his position.

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I thought OotBK was more like Celestial Beings. They're both trying to change the world no matter what. Suzaku's just trying to calm the world by force.

Celestial Being's initial goal was to police the world then change it. Suzaku also wants to police Japan so the killing stops THEN start a change without the killing. With his position, he may be able to do so, depending on how the Black Knights fare.

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Does anyone know if Suzaku's aware of the state Area 11's in? I mean it's way worse than the start of R1.

It is highly likely that he does. Area 11 had an open rebellion. Considering the fact that it's Britannia that we're talking about here, Area 11 being reduced to a remedial territory makes logical sense for them, as well as for Suzaku who will possibly have no ability to make any current changes yet.

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He doesn't care what state it's in. Suzaku has no intention of helping anyone for real, he just want to keep fighting until he dies, at which point the world's troubles would have nothing more to do with him.
He want Zero dead first, of course. Though it beats me why he let Lulu live the first time.

Now that's just pure unadulterated hate flowing there. Suzaku wants to help. He even says that he'll change the world from within even if he betrays his "friend" in Lelouch. He let Lelouch live

Ah, but that is altogether now a different matter. The biggest mistake people do with Suzaku is they mix up what he does with what he thinks.

And I was only talking about why Suzaku does enforce the orders as a Britannian soldier on Japan.

Europe is NOT Japan.

For the Europe part, Suzaku is His Imperial Majesty's Knight. As a soldier, it's his job to mess them up if he wants to keep his position.

Celestial Being's initial goal was to police the world then change it. Suzaku also wants to police Japan so the killing stops THEN start a change without the killing. With his position, he may be able to do so, depending on how the Black Knights fare.

It is highly likely that he does. Area 11 had an open rebellion. Considering the fact that it's Britannia that we're talking about here, Area 11 being reduced to a remedial territory makes logical sense for them, as well as for Suzaku who will possibly have no ability to make any current changes yet.

I still find it interesting that you can, on one hand, still believe Suzaku want Japan to be free one day, yet on the other hand have problem seeing the contradiction in assisting the invasion of another nation.

If Suzaku want to help change Britannia from the inside, helping Britannia invading other free nations is the completely opposite of what you say he is doing. You can't try to stop a crime while committing the same crimes yourself on someone else. If you say Suzaku is trying to change Britannia's colonist ways, then he is actually walking further away from his goal than when he first started.