Doing the LFR first was awful in DS. You just had to queue and AFK to kill the "last boss of the expansion". Luckily I killed Will of the emperor before and Sha on normal before killing them on LFR. Doing the same bosses on easy mode before normal and heroic is just tedious and kills all sense of accomplishment.

This whole sense of accomplishment argument is a joke really. Like if that were true than it stands to reason killing a boss on normal should kill your "sense of accomplishment" for doing it on heroic. Clearly it doesn't because their different difficulties. Now you personally may have just qued to afk to kill the last boss of the expansion but clearly not everybody did and you could have killed will and sha before killing them on lfr with lfr up anyway. That makes zero sense dude I'm sorry. I get that you don't want to feel forced into it for the gear, that's fine. 6 weeks is excessive to make the majority of raiders wait though, I'm sorry.

First you cry because you wont get to see every encounter, now you cry because you cant get to see it all fast enough. What will be the next thing you complain about? Not enough free epics?
Just for a note, I dont even raid my self. And I love this idea, now I wont clear LFR the first week.

Just be happy you have a chance to see the content. Imo they should remove LFR again.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 09:42 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy

This whole sense of accomplishment argument is a joke really. Like if that were true than it stands to reason killing a boss on normal should kill your "sense of accomplishment" for doing it on heroic. Clearly it doesn't because their different difficulties. Now you personally may have just qued to afk to kill the last boss of the expansion but clearly not everybody did and you could have killed will and sha before killing them on lfr with lfr up anyway. That makes zero sense dude I'm sorry. I get that you don't want to feel forced into it for the gear, that's fine. 6 weeks is excessive to make the majority of raiders wait though, I'm sorry.

Cybran had a pretty good point though, it feels wrong to kill a end game boss in something as easy as LFR. There was always someone AFK in LFR (And there still is). LFR is a joke, and should never been added to the game. I quit raiding after clearing DS on normal, and I dont see a reason why I should be allowed to see the content if I dont care enough to find a raiding guild. Why favor the lazy? Everyone can get into a guild with some effort, and raid the tier.

It would be fine, if there were dungeons being added. But no dungeons, rewards for the dailies are 476 and thus worthless to the many many many people who are waiting for LFR with nothing(fun) to do. If they were going to make the daily rewards 476, they should have made a full set that could be used for mogging or something instead of a few off pieces nobody needs. So basically if you have been doing LFR you have to sit and wait a week just to start and then you get fed in dribbles. LFR already doesn't get the final boss, so even 6 weeks later when everything that can be unlocked is unlocked, LFR still won't have the last boss so I really don't see what Blizz thinks is getting ruined.

But they don't see it all by week two. They won't see it all till week 6. I'm all for SOME gates on this because I don't want normal raiders to feel forced into it. I get that. I think 6 weeks is a bit excessive though. Why not 5 or 4? Giving them a month long head start should be good.

They made it 6 weeks because that's how long they expect it to take people to clear it on normal.

I feel it'd be better if they opened with the first wing tomorrow. Then released one wing a week, and just delayed the last wing by 2 weeks. Mainly, I'm just annoyed I won't have much to do outside of dailies until next week, and I've long been tired of re-running the same things by now. Oh well. Being treated like a second class citizen. Nothing new there.

then join a guild if you care so much about raiding, and stop whinning all the time?

This whole sense of accomplishment argument is a joke really. Like if that were true than it stands to reason killing a boss on normal should kill your "sense of accomplishment" for doing it on heroic. Clearly it doesn't because their different difficulties. Now you personally may have just qued to afk to kill the last boss of the expansion but clearly not everybody did and you could have killed will and sha before killing them on lfr with lfr up anyway. That makes zero sense dude I'm sorry. I get that you don't want to feel forced into it for the gear, that's fine. 6 weeks is excessive to make the majority of raiders wait though, I'm sorry.

Can't agree. LFR is deliberately tuned for monkeys (and even then the monkeys surpass the fail margin a bit too often), there is no sense of teamwork and doing it together in the way you have in normal/hm raids. You're not one team downing a boss, you're 25 solo players who happen to be in the same encounter. You can't solo it so there's little to be personally proud about, and since you're not playing as a team you can't be proud of the teamwork. That's the difference between LFR and regular raiding, and why it matters.

Yes they will qq about everything, the elitist i don't wanna do lfr crowd cried and cried until blizzard put this stupid system in. Why shouldn't we cry to get it taken out, there are a lot more of us than there are heroic mode elitists. I don't understand why blizzard would delay content to the majority of the audience to appease a few people who made a lot of noise on the forums.

Can't agree. LFR is deliberately tuned for monkeys (and even then the monkeys surpass the fail margin a bit too often), there is no sense of teamwork and doing it together in the way you have in normal/hm raids. You're not one team downing a boss, you're 25 solo players who happen to be in the same encounter. You can't solo it so there's little to be personally proud about, and since you're not playing as a team you can't be proud of the teamwork. That's the difference between LFR and regular raiding, and why it matters.

From a heroic raiders perspective normal is probably tuned for monkeys as well. It's all relative. I don't see why downing a boss in LFR removes your acccomplishment especially if you just afk through it. Your not even there what do you care?

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 08:49 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Aquamonkey

They made it 6 weeks because that's how long they expect it to take people to clear it on normal.

I get that but I don't think it's fair holding up the majority of raiders who do raid lfr for the minority of raiders who do normal/heroic. It seems perverse that once again the majority gets held back to hand hold a minority of players. By all means add some gates but by the same token it needs balance. This game has to many gates now.

From a heroic raiders perspective normal is probably tuned for monkeys as well. It's all relative. I don't see why downing a boss in LFR removes your acccomplishment especially if you just afk through it. Your not even there what do you care?

It really isn't though. My guild wiped around 3 nights on Elegon normal and only 1.5 on Elegon heroic. Granted this fight is one of the easiest heroic and hardest normal modes. The situation with Ambershaper norm vs heroic was similar and Empress heroic didn't even had much changes at all just ridiculous healing requirements. Once you master the the most important mechanics of most fights like orbs, windbombs and resin the fights become mostly about pushing your dps and healing.

You really can't compare LFR with norm and heroic. You don't learn ANYTHING in LFR. You dont master ANY mechanic. You just stand there waiting for loot.

It really isn't though. My guild wiped around 3 nights on Elegon normal and only 1.5 on Elegon heroic. Granted this fight is one of the easiest heroic and hardest normal modes. The situation with Ambershaper norm vs heroic was similar and Empress heroic didn't even had much changes at all just ridiculous healing requirements. Once you master the the most important mechanics of most fights like orbs, windbombs and resin the fights become mostly about pushing your dps and healing.

You really can't compare LFR with norm and heroic. You don't learn ANYTHING in LFR. You dont master ANY mechanic. You just stand there waiting for loot.

Let's see you really cant' compare them but SOMEHOW MAGICALLY without comparing them you still lose your sense of achievement relative to normal or heroic. Cmoon man. You don't see the contradiction? If you can't compare them then you really lose nothing if you kill it in lfr first.

Let's see you really cant' compare them but SOMEHOW MAGICALLY without comparing them you still lose your sense of achievement relative to normal or heroic. Cmoon man. You don't see the contradiction? If you can't compare them then you really lose nothing if you kill it in lfr first.

There is no contradiction. I want to wipe 20-40 times on bosses before I kill them normal. I find that fun. I don't want to spoil that with being group with some randoms that just stand there and still manage to roll down to the treasure chest.

I get that but I don't think it's fair holding up the majority of raiders who do raid lfr for the minority of raiders who do normal/heroic. It seems perverse that once again the majority gets held back to hand hold a minority of players. By all means add some gates but by the same token it needs balance. This game has to many gates now.

The purpose of LFR is to act as a teaser and a stepping stone to get people interested in real raiding. It gives the wrong impression if people can just blow through all the bosses in a couple weeks when normal mode isn't like that.

Personally, 6 weeks seems a bit much because I do HM and it doesn't take me that long to clear normal. But I see a lot of people who struggle in normal on my server, so maybe 6 weeks is just right.

I'm also okay with waiting, albeit ridiculous to wait an entire month, but this argument is flawed.

If they really want to make him a monster, they should redo the whole system and give people the possibility to do a heroic raid from the get-go; they should make heroic Throne of Thunder only available on HC the first month, before normal even opens if they really "want to make it seem like Lei Shen is a monster".

I'm not at all against waiting even longer, but if it's for 'full of shit' reasons, then yeah - I do.

The fact that they are NOT releasing even 1 LFR wing tomorrow says loud and absolutely clear, "LFR RAIDERS ARE SECOND RATE CUSTOMERS, THX4SUB LULZ"

Raiding guilds that are "racing" at the start of a new patch are an extreme minority in comparison to the amount of players who use LFR as their endgame content. LFR customers pay their salaries (not the world/server first raiders) and they basically told those customers to f off for a week. I'm really amazed at Blizzard, lol. They can't make the game all about casuals and then turn around and tell them to screw off for a week because .05% of the playerbase that does progression racing is more important. Just a big mistake.

I understand the need to manually gate the content so that it doesn't get burned through in a day causing quick cancellations and/or quicker burn out, but not even releasing 1 wing to LFR players on the day of the patch? Ha!

I think its reasonable to release 1/4 of LFR every week beginning with the first quarter the day the patch drops(only to approximate normal progression). Heroic should be open the first week too. I doubt even world first guilds would be able to clear heroics on week 1 without funneling normal mode gear to their mains.

If you dont want your hard earned accomplishment to be ruined by beating easy mode first, dont run LFR until you clear the raid. Its that easy.

Yeah, but I am not alone in a raid. People do run LFR for various reasons and get tired and less motivated to struggle in Normal and HC because they done the content to death. Speaking only on the behalf of our guild it has been a real struggle to get a raid going because of this.