Posted - 01/20/2012 : 12:33:38 Firstly and very quickly to mr Guest who doesn't like my comments. If this is an open site where people can openly post post their opinions, why can't I do the same thing??? By the way, thanks for recognizing my skills. You are 100% correct, I am that good!!!

To Alex, I agree with your point completely. It's very applicable to the situation in STL specifically. Jaro Halak played less than 100 games before he signed his 4 yr, $3.5 million contract. Was it worth it?? I would say no considering he is now sharing the net with a guy making 1/2 the money he is making. Furthermore, guys at a similar age and the same or better pedigree (Howard, Crawford, Pavlec, Vokoun, Raask) have signed contract around the same time for less money.

I know that STL likely would have not signed Halak if they offered him less. Some other meatball GM would have offered him the $3.5 he got so they did have to pay to get him, however, is he worth it??

A goalie of less than 200 games of a career is a risk to sign to a high dollar value contract. There is a history of goalies getting huge cheddar without a lot of experience. Huet, Carey, Chechmanek all come to mind without much thought. I am sure we could list many more.

Elliot got the contract he deserved. In 2 yrs if he is still a top tier goalie, he will get paid like a top tier goalie.

Alex116

Posted - 01/20/2012 : 12:09:13

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:Originally posted by Guest5744

and if i was a goalie in the nhl 2nd in SV% GAA and shutouts i think i should be earning at least as much as the top 16 goalies in the league

sure, he's done that for 16 games this year. If he can show that he's capable of doing that year in and year out for several years in the regular season and playoffs, then $4M+ contracts will become the norm for Elliott. Until that time, he's just a currently hot goalie.

Very well said nuxfan. Guest, you make it seem as though he's deserving of top 15-16 money when he hasn't proven anything over the long haul! It'd be like signing a free agent out of Finland, having him put a string of 3 shutouts in his first 5 games together, then throwing 6 mill a year at him assuming he'll continue that pace. Elliott and his agent are not morons!

nuxfan

Posted - 01/20/2012 : 09:20:04

quote:Originally posted by Guest5744

and if i was a goalie in the nhl 2nd in SV% GAA and shutouts i think i should be earning at least as much as the top 16 goalies in the league

sure, he's done that for 16 games this year. If he can show that he's capable of doing that year in and year out for several years in the regular season and playoffs, then $4M+ contracts will become the norm for Elliott. Until that time, he's just a currently hot goalie.

Guest5744

Posted - 01/20/2012 : 05:55:00 and if i was a goalie in the nhl 2nd in SV% GAA and shutouts i think i should be earning at least as much as the top 16 goalies in the league

Guest5744

Posted - 01/20/2012 : 05:52:33

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

Sure guest, because NHL teams just toss $4 million contracts around like they are water. Give your head a shake. There are only 16 goalies in the entire NHL that make $3.6 million/season or more. Not all starters make that kind of money.

To the point at hand, I wouldn't disagree that OTT wins this trade when looking at OTT vs COL. OTT still has their player and signed him to a very good contract. Win! My point was more towards all those people who justified the OTT win by making statements along the lines of Brian Elliot sucks and/or Anderson is way better than Elliot.

Explain to me how Brian Elliot is playing better than Jaro Halak this season (as statistically better than last season) with virtually the same defensive group in front of him?? Although it's a highly objective statement, I highly doubt that OTT is bette off with Anderson over Elliot.

The players are similar, as some orginally eluded to. Those who say that Anderson is a step up on Elliot are simply dillusion in their bais.

BEANS... we all know you think very highly of yourself and are on the cusp of being a professional sports analyst. with that being said this is an open thread where people are entitled to their opinions so how about you state yours and stfu and stop degrading people every chance you get

Beans15

Posted - 01/19/2012 : 13:47:19 Sure guest, because NHL teams just toss $4 million contracts around like they are water. Give your head a shake. There are only 16 goalies in the entire NHL that make $3.6 million/season or more. Not all starters make that kind of money.

To the point at hand, I wouldn't disagree that OTT wins this trade when looking at OTT vs COL. OTT still has their player and signed him to a very good contract. Win! My point was more towards all those people who justified the OTT win by making statements along the lines of Brian Elliot sucks and/or Anderson is way better than Elliot.

Explain to me how Brian Elliot is playing better than Jaro Halak this season (as statistically better than last season) with virtually the same defensive group in front of him?? Although it's a highly objective statement, I highly doubt that OTT is bette off with Anderson over Elliot.

The players are similar, as some orginally eluded to. Those who say that Anderson is a step up on Elliot are simply dillusion in their bais.

Guest5744

Posted - 01/19/2012 : 09:25:03 who honestly thinks elliott can keep up this play... the guy himself doesn't even believe. he just signed a 2 yr contract for 3.6 mil thats 1.8 million a season.... if he thought he could play this well the rest of the season he would have held out and got at least 3.6 million a season as a starter in the offseason

nuxfan

Posted - 01/19/2012 : 09:20:25

quote:Originally posted by Leafs81

Anderson is not too shabby in Ottawa.

He gave confidence to a team that people thought would be battling for a lottery draft pick at season end, now they are second in their division and in place for playoffs.

Anderson has a lot of wins and is now stepping it up, this team has a young defensive squad and they were making full of mistakes especially at the beginning of the season.

Anderson is keeping them in games they had no business winning.

Anyway Elliot is doing great in St Louis not Colorado. So Ottawa won this trade hands down.

Because Elliott is playing in STL instead of COL, OTT wins this trade "hands down"? OTT might have gotten the best of COL as COL has nothing to show for the trade anymore, but in a player vs player comparison, I think both teams got a pretty even swap.

Anderson has clearly stepped into a starting role in OTT, and has been great in that role. Elliott has been tandeming in STL with Halak, and both goalies together are now one of the best tandems in hockey.

You make some interesting notes at the top about the success of Anderson:

"He gave confidence to a team that people thought would be battling for a lottery draft pick at season end, now they are second in their division and in place for playoffs. "

"Anderson has a lot of wins and is now stepping it up, this team has a young defensive squad and they were making full of mistakes especially at the beginning of the season."

"Anderson is keeping them in games they had no business winning."

Elliott does all the same things in STL. STL was projected to battle for 8th at best this season, but here they are neck and neck for their division (a division which has CHI and DET in it, imagine OTT playing 14 games a year against those two teams), and only 2 points out of the conference lead with 2 games in hand.

The STL defense is quite young as well - after Jackman and Polak, you've got Shattenkirk (22 yrs old), Pietrangelo (22), Coliacovo (28), and Kris Russell (24). This is not a steady mature blueline by any stretch. They are good though, and probably better than OTT's blueline, but young they are. I also don't see how Anderson was cleaning up this "pile of defensive mistakes early in the season", weren't OTT struggling out of the gate as well? I see a sub-900 sv% for Anderson thru October, that hardly tells me he was saving them from themselves.

Anderson and Elliott both keep their teams in games they have no business winning. Thats how mediocre teams succeed, and STL and OTT are both surpassing expectations this season.

I have no doubt that this trade needed to happen for Elliott, he had clearly worn out his welcome in OTT when the deal was done, and seemed to have no future there - OTT got an instant upgrade in Anderson, and moved forward. Teams will often give up on goalies too early (see Kiprusoff, your own Anderson, Thomas, Rask all come to mind), and I think OTT gave up too soon on Elliott, although time will tell. He is a very good goalie.

slozo

Posted - 01/19/2012 : 05:38:35

quote:Originally posted by Leafs81

Anderson is not too shabby in Ottawa.

He gave confidence to a team that people thought would be battling for a lottery draft pick at season end, now they are second in their division and in place for playoffs.

Anderson has a lot of wins and is now stepping it up, this team has a young defensive squad and they were making full of mistakes especially at the beginning of the season.

Anderson is keeping them in games they had no business winning.

Anyway Elliot is doing great in St Louis not Colorado. So Ottawa won this trade hands down.

Agreed.

And further to that . . . please rate the DEFENCES of both St.Louis and Ottawa, look back to how these teams were both supposed to do this year, and then tell me again how much better Elliot is than Anderson?

I know I was one of the guys who said this was a "sideways" trade (nothing gained or lost really for Ottawa), but to me, it really looks like Anderson has truly made Ottawa a much better team. Their last game was a prime example of the Sens winning a game they had no business winning against my Leafs . . . Anderson absolutely stood on his head in the second period, and they somehow squeezed out a victory.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Leafs81

Posted - 01/19/2012 : 03:38:12 Anderson is not too shabby in Ottawa.

He gave confidence to a team that people thought would be battling for a lottery draft pick at season end, now they are second in their division and in place for playoffs.

Anderson has a lot of wins and is now stepping it up, this team has a young defensive squad and they were making full of mistakes especially at the beginning of the season.

Anderson is keeping them in games they had no business winning.

Anyway Elliot is doing great in St Louis not Colorado. So Ottawa won this trade hands down.

nuxfan

Posted - 01/18/2012 : 19:31:19 I don't know, its so hard to know if Elliott would have this success with OTT, or if he needed a change in scenery to realize his potential. He's certainly shown he can play in STL though, so good for him.

Beans15

Posted - 01/18/2012 : 18:38:50 Ahem......

Yep, Brian Elliot sucks and Craig Anderson is a huge upgrade, right??? I wonder how many people would have the same opinions they had last year on this topic??

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 03/11/2011 : 07:41:14

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

The NHL has 30 teams. You listed 11 teams that he would be #1 on or perhaps as good as the current starter. You disagree with almost everything I say but show he would not be the start in MORE than 50% of the NHL????

Who wins if and when Anderson leaves as a UFA in July??? This deal is only solid for Ottawa IF they sign Anderson for a reasonable contract.

Ultimately, I don't see Anderson as an upgrade on virtually any goalie Ottawa has had in the past 4 seasons.

First statement by me was"Disagree with almost all of your last post. But will let time decide this one as your will to argue it is to great." I think Anderson will prove to be in the top tier of NHL goalies long term. End of point.

I did go on to list the teams which were obvious for Anderson to sub for and then made a point of asking you which you thought Elliot could be a #1." Notice I numbered the questions to you. Your answer to those questions.

If your will to disagree is too great, thats fine. Just disagree. Either way I was expressing an opinion and asking a question.

FutureKesler

Posted - 03/10/2011 : 22:27:39 I think its obvious that Ottawa wins this trade. Brian Elliot sucks, period. Anderson is the only reason Colorado is still afloat and isn't the long term answer in Ottawa, but a helluva lot better than Elliot

Kesler is the TRUE Nucks Captain.

Guest7742

Posted - 03/10/2011 : 21:00:57 Avs fans are ecstatic Anderson plays 1 playoff round and his value seemingly sky rockets ... Elliot can't get any worse than he's been this season.... Anderson continues to play ottawa out of a high draft pick to raise his ufa value this plays out great for Avs fans we welcome the highly skilled player we'll be drafting likely a couple spots before the sens

Beans15

Posted - 03/10/2011 : 20:56:31 The NHL has 30 teams. You listed 11 teams that he would be #1 on or perhaps as good as the current starter. You disagree with almost everything I say but show he would not be the start in MORE than 50% of the NHL????

Who wins if and when Anderson leaves as a UFA in July??? This deal is only solid for Ottawa IF they sign Anderson for a reasonable contract.

Ultimately, I don't see Anderson as an upgrade on virtually any goalie Ottawa has had in the past 4 seasons.

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 03/10/2011 : 20:09:49 Disagree with almost all of your last post. But will let time decide this one as your will to argue it is to great.

Ok, I'll argue a little. How many of those goalies that he be backup for are you considering that are currently higher in the standing than Ottawa and Colorado. Out of those goalies who outplayed him last year.

He'd be #1 in

NYIFloridaAtlantaEdmontonTorontoPhillyOttawaColorado

He may be as good as the goalies playing for

SanjoseColumbusWashington?!

Id maybe even consider him an upgrade in Detroit. There is probably a few more but these one are the easiest to pick on.

#1 Out of those goalies who outplayed him last year?

#2 Of those teams who is Elliot the #1 bonified goalie for?

Clearly an Ottawa win here

Beans15

Posted - 03/10/2011 : 19:54:18 Exceptional??? Really?? If he was so exceptional out of Florida, how was he not able to sign a deal bigger than $1.8 per season over 2 years???

I don't dislike Anderson or his skills. I just think goalies need to prove themselves over a period of time before they are considered quality. It has happened far too many times where goalies are hot and get paid and then tank.

Craig Anderson has been an bona fied NHL starter for 2 seasons. So what Jose Thodore, was he not?? So was Cristobal Huet right??? Anderson is a back up on 50% of the teams in the NHL and a starter on the other 50%.

Obviously Beans doesnt know or cannot remember Anderson stealing games in Florida prior to his offseason aquisition by Colorado. Florida couldnt dump Vokoun and couldnt afford 2 #1 goalies. I was the first person I know to pick him up for my hockey pool during the Offseason, expecting better things to come. Anderson had deflated stats this year due to injuries and Colorado's implode. They had the look of desperation in the last 30 games or so. A change of scenery later and Anderson is back to old habits and this is playing IMO with an inferior team in front of him right now.

Elliot on the other hand had the advantage of playing behind, for the beginning of his career, a team which most considered to be on the cusp of a cup. The team as a whole deflated badly, in no small part due to goaltending. They lean on this young promising goalie to deliver a few wins that they otherwise did not deserve and he caved.

So on one hand you have an injured goalie recovering, who by most (except Beans), is considered an exceptional and seasoned #1 goalie, against a backup goalie who didnt deliver to his promise and you have no long term commitment if the UFA cant deliver. You can already see the results on the scoresheets. Definatley an Ottawa win here.

nuxfan

Posted - 03/06/2011 : 17:47:56 I read somewhere recently that OTT was preparing to offer a 3yr/10M contract to Anderson...but if he turned down 2 years @ 3.75 from COL, it sounds like OTT will have to do better.

OILINONTARIO

Posted - 03/06/2011 : 15:45:42

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

The biggest question mark for this trade is Anderson's UFA status - specifically:

- what does it cost OTT to sign him. His last contract was a sort of "yeah I had a good year in FLA, but I'll take a cheepie to prove it wasn't a fluke". And it wasn't. So what is the next contract amount for Anderson?

- does he even sign in OTT? He is UFA, and can go anywhere. Not trying to kick a team when they're down, but OTT hasn't exactly made themselves a hockey destination over the last few seasons for UFA's. I think there is a good bet that they cannot keep him - hell, he may resign in COL over the summer, word is that he liked it there.

Believe I heard recently that Anderson turned down a 2 year extension worth $7.5 M from COL.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.

nuxfan

Posted - 03/05/2011 : 15:05:45

quote:Ottawa wins this trade hands down because they gave up NOTHING !!!

This trade currently has no winner.

OTT are destined to finish bottom 3 in the NHL this season, so Anderson gives them nothing for this season. Further, he is UFA at the end of the season, and its not certain that OTT can sign him or if he even wants to play in OTT.

COL got a goalie that will likely be their backup next year, but is signed and who's value can go nowhere but up.

Unless OTT signs Anderson for to a decent value for a couple of years, and continues to play at this level, AND Elliot does indeed remain a backup goalie and does not progress, then OTT has not won this trade in any way.

The Duke

Posted - 03/05/2011 : 14:30:07 Sorry Beans if i insulted you in any way. I don`t mean to do that to anyone but sometimes people just word posts that make another poster feel stupid.

Just because someone doesn`t agree with a persons thoughts.....doesn`t make the other person right.

The Duke

Posted - 03/05/2011 : 14:26:11 Each game i watched the Av`s last season in the playoffs PolishExpress, the puck was always in the Av`s end and Anderson was bombarded with shots, he was outstanding.

I`ve watched Elliot play quite often with Ottawa and he is at best an NHL backup....i`m sure any Ottawa fan here will agree with me. Ottawa has tried numerous goalies because of Elliot`s short-comings...he was given every opportunity to play in Ottawa...he just couldn`t do it.

Ottawa wins this trade hands down because they gave up NOTHING !!!

polishexpress

Posted - 03/05/2011 : 13:49:51 Have to agree with Beans. Last year, Colorado did not have an "inexperienced defense."

Last year, (09-10 season) Here are the D-men that played at least 41 games "In front of" Anderson:Player-Current Age:Liles-30Quincey-25Wilson-24Clark-34Hannan-32Foote-39In comparison, here is who played D for Ottawa in 09-10 for more than half the season(Lee played 23games, Sutton 18gamess)Kuba-34Karlsson-20Phillips-32Campoli-26Picard-25Volchenkov-29Carkner-30

So for defense last year, just looking at ages, colorado had two D-men 25 and under, while Ottawa had 3 25-and-under.

BTW @Duke: watching Colorado in the playoffs doesn't mean as much if you barely watched them in the regular season. I bet beans watched more games with Colorado, as they are in the same division as EDM. Out west, we are in the same viewing region as CGY, so we have the opportunity to watch all the COL games vs. CGY. That's at least 12 COL games that are available for viewing in the west, not to mention featured games that networks like TSN provide.

Yup, watching COL in the playoffs would give you a really good idea of the team, but not as good as those out west who periodically watched them play throughout the season.

Beans15

Posted - 03/05/2011 : 12:40:30 If you are trying to instigate something by making personal comments such as ' you talk a lot of sh*t' then I will tell you two things. Firstly, it will not work. Secondly, it is against the forum guidelines. Please respect the site and manage your comments accordingly.

Now, to the point at hand. If you wish to change the argument to prove your point, I am a little confused as to what exactly you are trying to prove. You argued the Avalanche were inexperienced in front of Anderson right?? I understand that defense is a team concept, however the backbone of the defense is the goaltending and defensive core. Considering that, how can you say that a group of defensemen in Colorado including Foote, Salei, Hannan, and Clark all over the age of 30 as well as Quincey at 25 and Liles and 28 are inexperienced??

But those are just numbers right??

The Duke

Posted - 03/05/2011 : 11:21:49 Beans did you watch the Avs in the playoffs last season ??...i did, they were horrible, couldn1t get the puck out of their own end....you just listed a couple of veteran defenseman to make them look like a veteran team or something.....i said they are a very, very young inexperienced team...and they are....

Who were their leaders Beans...?? young Stastny...young O`.Reilly....

The Avs Beans were probally the youngest... most in - experienced ( forward group ) in the playoffs last season....

The Sens on the other hand went to the stanley cup playoff FINALS in 2007 and were perrenial playoff makers each season....while being led by the like of Alfred...Spezza....Fisher....etc.....

If you think my posts are nonsense by pointing out these facts to you .....then you my friend talk a lot of s**t.

numbers, numbers numbers, blah...blah...blah

ryan93

Posted - 03/03/2011 : 20:30:47 Anderson with yet another big game tonight for the Sens, stopping 42 of 43 for the 2-1 win. He's now 4-2 in Ottawa, with a 1.16 GAA & .966 sp%.

Utemin

Posted - 02/20/2011 : 11:48:34

quote:Originally posted by ryan93

How about Anderson tonight! 47 save shut-out, plus blanked the Leafs in the shoot-out, incredible!

both teams got a shut out :) I believe this is Toronto's horrible offense trying to use a Detroit stategy of shooting the puck.

Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful

Beans15

Posted - 02/20/2011 : 07:40:33 What?? Duke, seriously. If you are going to make a point, make sure it's accurate. The only year that Anderson has played well in his entire career was behind a Colorado team that went to the playoffs. And Brian Elliot has played in front of a great defense?? Seriously, did you just say that?? Ottawa has never been higher than the 15th ranked defense in the 3 years Elliot has played. How is that a great defense?? They were a bad defense with a single great defensive pairing (Phillips and Volchenkov) up until this year. Anderson played behind a group that included Foote, Liles, Quincey, Hannan, and Wilson.

I don't know about your thoughts, but a group of defensemen like that are far from 'inexperienced."

Again, agruing with people that can not see any other point than their own is pointless. I get that Anderson had a great season last year. He was one of the best goalies and I believe he should have won the Vezina for 09/10. But one season does not a goalie make. There are countless names I could list right now of goalies who had one really great season and went on to be average of below average for the rest of thier career. I am not saying that I would take Elliot over Anderson. All I am saying is that all this talk about Ottawa winning this trade hands down is simply not the case.

Bottom line is that Ottawa still has to sign a goalie in 4 months. Will it be Anderson?? Who knows. But why trade away a guy that might be a decent start eventually and at worst be a very servicable back up for a guy that is not signed and outside of one hot season really isn't any better??

The Duke

Posted - 02/19/2011 : 20:40:07 Beans , always the numbers guy.

Anderson was spectaular for the Av`s last year. I know i cursed on him enough tonight watching him make unbelieveable saves againist my leafs. Think he made 47 - 48 saves or something. Ottawa won a game they had no chance to win....but Anderson thought diffrent...completely stole this game.

Elliot is useless, the Av`s GM must be a complete moron to make this deal. As far as being a UFA at seasons end...it`s surely easier to sign a guy to a contract when he is playing for your team...Ottawa has first dibs on him now. Complete steal for Ottawa, great move by Murray.

Ottawa moved out a meaningless player and brought in a really good goalie. When comparing goalies you have to look at the team he is on also. Anderson played for a bunch of in-experienced team-mates, Elliot played for a veteran team with great defense.

With even numbers in this scenario, Anderson wins hands down.

Beans15

Posted - 02/19/2011 : 19:28:12

quote:Originally posted by Sensfan101

Alright Anderson had one good year Elliot had 0 good years. The numbers don't always tell everything. You can't see in his GAA all the bad goals Elliot has let in. He was letting in bad goal pretty much every game this year.

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky

You are right, numbers are not everything. But they do tell a story. As I have said in the past, stats are a symptom of play. Good players have good stats. Bad players have bad stats. They are valid in making some comparisons. But I agree they are not everything.

Again, if they both have similar stats it's really hard to say that they are not at least similar in their performance. One can not reasonably say that one goalie with a GAA of around 3 lets in weak goals and a goalie with a similar GAA does not let in weak goals.

Posted - 02/19/2011 : 18:05:14 Alright Anderson had one good year Elliot had 0 good years. The numbers don't always tell everything. You can't see in his GAA all the bad goals Elliot has let in. He was letting in bad goal pretty much every game this year.

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky

Beans15

Posted - 02/19/2011 : 15:39:11 So, if Anderson has very similar numbers to Elliot and Ellott sucks, what does that say about Anderson?

A + B = C?????

Just watching Sportsnet after the brilliant Oilers come from behind win and they were talking about this trade. Brophy said it very well. It was something along the lines of Ottawa might appear to have won this deal but Anderson has really had only one good year and they way he has played this year makes lends itself to the belief Anderson is more a one hit wonder than he is a real deal.