There are Pyshki and Poncheekee - these are supposed to be the equivalents of doughnuts, however, say, in St.Petersburg the first is the ball-type (possibly with a filling) and the second one is the deep-fried toroid, optionally topped by some sugar powder. In Moscow, the reverse is generally true. Both types are never savoury though, always sweet.

Then there are endless varieties of pirozhki (which literally means "little pie") - made with plain, pastry or sour dough, savoury or sweet, open or closed, mostly baked. There is a deep-fried subclass of savoury ones, usually with a lump of shredded mystery meat inside, called belyash; kind of a mini-cheburek if you like. Big ones can actually be called chebureki, or khychin, in places.

And of course there are national varieties - pozy in Buryatiya, echpochmaki in Tatarstan and Bashkiria, etc and so on.
(same with pelmyeni - khinkali in Georgia, manty in Turkic and Central Asian territories, varyeniki in the Ukraine, etc)

Mario/Mbravo/All. Thanks for this. It is "Pirozhki" I'm looking for I think...but the belyash fits the description better.

I think the example I had wasn't necessarily the best representative of the type.

Just reminisce about belyashi - it was popular student food (when I was one, mid-80s, still Leningrad back then) - it had SOME meat inside and cost just 10 kopecks. There was a caveat though - you better bought these things in the morning; the people who churned out batches and batches of the stuff changed the frying oil once a day (if that ) so the evening pies were effectively deep-fried in varnish, and once exposed to the air while lying on the trays, hardened to a letter-opener quality.

Ahhh Motoreiter...as a Russian you probably see it that way, as it's familiar to you and you've maybe done the journey a number of times?

Actually, as TonyP hinted, I'm American, I just live in Moscow. And I've only done the stretch between Irkutsk and European Russia once, and that frankly that was enough for me.

However, I've ridden quite a lot around Russia and enjoy it, but riding all the way across the whole of Siberia gets rather tedious. I like the regional cities, however, so try to stay in them when possible.

Belyashi vs Pirozhki s myasom ... Whats the difference. Seems the same meat. Same dough. Same fryer. Only the shape is different. The pirozhuk is elongated, while the belyash is circular.

I remember asking a Russian once while I stood at a zakusochnaya trying to make my choice. He shrugged his shoulders and said I think you get more meat and less dough in a belyash? He definitely wasnt sure. Maybe he was trying to justify himself, since he went ahead and bought a few belyashi.

Whats your take on that debate mbravo? If you were at a zakusochnaya somewhere and had a choice of belyashi or pirozhki s myasom, what would you choose, and why?

Note the "Go-Faster" flames on the side of the Lada. This is the same vehicle Prutster mentioned us having seen in a cop-bad guy chase with both cars revving to valve bounce and going about 40mph. I think the flames are aspirational rather than realistic.....

Having grown up in Michigan home of the Motor City I spent a lot of time in the late 50's sticking these kinds of flame decals on everything. Bicycles, model cars etc.....

When I see these pics I wonder what the gearheads in Russia would have done had they had the same freedoms and resources as those of us in the west. There seems to be no shortage of ingenuity given what they had to work with.

Thanks again to all or you for making us aware there is something worthwhile on the other side of the planet.

I wonder what the gearheads in Russia would have done had they had the same freedoms and resources as those of us in the west.

Mind you, Russia's got the supposedly largest pile of resources in the world...Still their yearly budget only clicks when oil&gas prices are right. When it doesnt, they just sell more gold, platinium, diamonds or the like...

this is interesting - the question is: why not? also, what about adventure motorcycling in China? there's gotta be some great tracks to be had there, but I've noticed a serious absence of China adventure reports on this forum.

is it a matter of the political climate being restrictive against overland travel, either by Chinese residents or foreigners? something else?

Try this for an entertaining report. Be warned, you have to be very patient with this one if you want to read the whole trip, also there are links to some pretty gruesome videos of mob violence.

I say deep, because I am often amazed that even in a common western setting there is such a diversity in cultural preferences and ambitions.

as always, Walter, great commentary. you touched upon a few topics that here in the US would be considered "politically incorrect" to discuss, and I think that holds back American understanding of the world, and of ourselves as well.

the US culture in general (what's that I just said about stereotypes) has shifted to such a level of political correctness that it's difficult to have a candid conversation about such basic facts that, on a per capita basis, you'll find more Polish than Chinese ADV riders. so, with the discourse stalled at the gate, we are much more reluctant to explore why this is the case, and therefore such insights as Walter's would be viewed as awfully shocking, and not taken with the value it contains.

and I've succeeded in thoroughly hijacking the thread... moderators, please go ahead and move this discussion to somewhere more relevant - and let's get back to reading about Rod's trip west, and the Norwegian folks' trip east!

Belyashi vs Pirozhki s myasom ... Whats the difference. Seems the same meat. Same dough. Same fryer. Only the shape is different. The pirozhuk is elongated, while the belyash is circular.

I remember asking a Russian once while I stood at a zakusochnaya trying to make my choice. He shrugged his shoulders and said I think you get more meat and less dough in a belyash? He definitely wasnt sure. Maybe he was trying to justify himself, since he went ahead and bought a few belyashi.

Whats your take on that debate mbravo? If you were at a zakusochnaya somewhere and had a choice of belyashi or pirozhki s myasom, what would you choose, and why?

Now, the theory tells us that belyash as such is a Tatar word, and is related to a certain sort of Tatar meat pies. It also tells us that it has to be fried; in Russian, belyash is a pirozhok; it is just one of the many types possible.

Technically, your picture from zakusochnaya is slightly off, exactly because belyashi would be fried, and a generic pirozhok s myasom would be baked - granted, it might be difficult to see under often non-optimal lighting conditions :) I can also tell from experience that belyashi usually have kind of juicier stuffing, while a baked pirozhok would have drier minced meat inside.

Finally, the practical part tells us, iirc, that the proof is in the pudding. That is, I would consider the specimens before me and choose the ones I'd decide are better for me. There is a general preconception that belyash is a "cat-n-dog" pie, relating to the mystery meat status of its stuffing; it also kind of looks greasier and less healthy. But in reality you just take a look, sniff and buy what you like more.

Also, you have to take into account the geography. In Bashkiria or Tatarstan I'd take belyash without thinking twice. In St.Petersburg... I would lean towards pirozhki, but consider the specimens laid out before me, as above.

this is interesting - the question is: why not? also, what about adventure motorcycling in China? there's gotta be some great tracks to be had there, but I've noticed a serious absence of China adventure reports on this forum.

is it a matter of the political climate being restrictive against overland travel, either by Chinese residents or foreigners? something else?

I completed 20 days of motorcyling in China back in 2010. I never did any kind of ride report because I didnt think people would be interested?

It is extremely difficult and expensive to do it "legally"... That being said, There are many ways to avoid these kinds of problems with the right assistance. I was fortunate enough to have the right contacts to make this happen and it was an experience I will never forget.

Colebatch is once again accurate on his understanding of cultures in regards to the Chinese. But, a change is very much happeneing in China as we speak in regards to Motorcycling...

I was able to make my journey based on my business involvement in exporting thousands of motos to china over the last 6-7 years. They have very strict regulations on engine size and models allowed to be imported... But the demand and supply is rapidly getting larger. There are lot of politics involved... but a change is happening I can assure you the next 10+ years will show a lot more motorcycling in China.

Rod, your writing cracks me up, please keep it up and take us all the way back to Moscow.

Sorry for the partial hijack, but it is a very interesting segway and somewhat pertinent to the content at hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colebatch

(...) Its not because they are discriminated against, its because they dont want to be public. They dont want to put themselves forward and face public scrutiny. They culturally dont subcribe to democracy, which is a very western concept - despite our politicians saying its a universal concept. They dont think those in power should be debased by public scrutiny. To the oriental mind, if you are in power, then you deserve respect. You may be subject to limited scrutiny but only from your peers, not from the general public. How many of the Oriental community in California actually even vote? Despite being there the best part of 2 centuries, they still do not embrace democracy. Because culturally its not their thing.

This is quite a fair assessment, although when we speak about culture(s) we are always speaking in general terms. What Walter is referring to from a more technical/academic perspective is called "Power distance" it is one of the concepts developed by Hofstede.

For anyone interested in what makes a society (in terms of culture) the way it is, and how it is perceived by the self and the other, read Edward T. Hall, Geert Hofstede, a W.B Gudykunst, just to name a few. There is also a neat app for iphone called Culture GPS, the lite ed is free and it is based on the theoretical framework of Hofstede.

Not only is power distance a very notable difference between West/East cultures, but the notion of uncertainty avoidance, and concepts of "hi/low context" explain a lot of the on the nature of encounters with locals as well as anything related to traffic and driving. Two things most important for the avid adventurer travelling the world.

__________________
FEAR ===> False Expectation About Reality. GSA08
Work is just the time you have to spend between rides.