In SA our best climbers are going to try and flash; men: 30 and women: 26.

Why do we suck soo badly in the climbing world.South have the best Rugby Team in the World, some of the best runners in the world, and we should field a decent Olympic Team capable of winning at least a few medals in Beijing.Yet despite Rocklands, Boven and Montagu we don't have any decent climbers capable of even beating the best women in the world!

Juzh on-sighted/flashed Paragon (30) back in 1997, yet 11 years later we are nowhere!

I think the main reason is just more climbers. But also better gyms; youth training and talent watch programs; competition circuits; training knowledge; better crags (no limit to amount of hard routes to try onsight or flash); strong climbing peers...

But who cares? I didn't know those facts. More interested in South Africans climbing hard. So long as we have fun pushing each other we will get there eventually.

Hehe, that rugby team thing is debatable- We certainly have the team that won the last RWC. 'Best' is a very relative term...

You'll start to see some of the many many reasons we're not quite up there (considering world standards) when you compare us to somewhere like North America/Europe... (add to this list please?)

US/Europe has the sponsors able to support full time professional climbers. I'm sure that if we had a hundred or so people doing nothing but travelling and climbing full time we'll be pushing 8c flashes too

US/Europe has the numbers of climbing people (think quickdraw wielding masses) to support the products these sponsors sell, enabling the Evolvs/Petzls/Bluewaters/DMMs to pay people to climb. Compare the prize sizes between int and local comps.

Other points relating to $$... Number of climbing films produced/purchased, number of people putting up routes, number of developed crags with easy access, media coverage of (and you can laugh here) 'extreme sports'

Fact of the matter is, the more people in a population, the more people you'll have climbing, the more money available in the climbing pool, the more people doing it for a living, the more time spent climbing, the higher the grades.

But who cares? I didn't know those facts. More interested in South Africans climbing hard. So long as we have fun pushing each other we will get there eventually.

Fair point, I've been quite impressed by the general improvement in the number of hard routes getting sent since last years Rock and Road. Sometimes a motivation boost helps as well. I hope the folks in KZN call in sick on Monday 28 July and get out there to see just how hard our hard climbers can climb!!

Personally, I think the poll results are all wrong. I predict Supernova getting a good number of flash sends. These guys are climbing 32's after all, surely they can flash 30 with the right Beta..

You have an opinion, so do I. When these differ, please don't confuse your opinion with the truth, nothing is absolute.

its mainly numbers. aside from population, numbers is a function of several things, mainly exposure to the sport which is mainly due to absence of more decent walls; cape town has some great ones. The new joburg schools league will help. Anyway, that aside, we do OK. Brazil for example which has 188 million (!) has only one climber to have done 8c. We have 2 climbers who have climbed 8c and a population of much less. In any case, as someone said earlier we are psyched and having fun, thats what matters most.

sure it helps to have sponsored climbers developing crags and a world of money to increase the numbers of participation. but this has blinded us all to the see the most common cause of climbing difficult grades. the pure desire and will to do so.

take this kid for example, probably the best example out there. Adam Ondra. 15 years old, one of the elite climbers of the world coming out of Czech Rep. he dosent have all the money in the world, nor did he even have a coach with vast amounts of climbing knowledge to train him to be the best in the world. hes just a kid who, at this point in his life, im sure dosent even know what he wants to be when he grows up. (even though now im sure he'll become an elite climbing bum/junky just like Fred Nicole) the kid has desire. discipline. he just goes out and does it. its not about the numbers of how many climbers, how many gyms etc. sure these things help but when it comes down to it, no-one else can make you climb any harder than yourself!