What scares me is how close we are to the cap, apparently Bourdon's potential bonus counts towards the cap meaning we're at about $43.6 million, and need to shed salary. The fact that we kept Santala who is a poor-man's Chouinard (big, defensive, good face-off), and with Kesler on the third, it leaves me thinking that one way or another, trade or waivers, we should be looking at moving Chouinard, $1.1 million for the 4th line this close to the cap is just not acceptable. It's possible that Bourdon will be sent down and that will clear up cap space, but I'd hate for that decision to be made because of the cap.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when Rypien gets healthy. AV is very high on the kid, and I think he values his skill set and contributions above Green, Chouinard or Santala.

On a different note, I think on the whole as an organization we can be very encouraged with the progess Hansen has shown. He just might be a gem pulled out of the 9th round.

As to the cap situation, certainly Kesler's contract ate up Nonis' cushion room. We will have to see how the chips fall there. Chouinard will certainly have to be a contributor to the team with his contract, even if he is only playing a smaller role. His contract demands it, and from the sound bytes and interviews...AV is on the same wave length and isn't letting him forget it.

Chouinard is not moving unless he requests it. You can't just trade a guy you signed as a UFA and expect to ever sign another UFA. Chouinard will be given quite some tiem to show where he belongs and how he fits into the system. I believe during the calgary pregame they spoke to both Nonis and AV and while they said they were a bit disappointed in his play up to that point they weren't going to become concerned until it was atleast the 20 game mark and it hadn't picked up.

Last edited by tantalum on Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

tantalum wrote:Chouinard is not moving unless he requests it. You can't just trade a guy you signed as a UFA and expect to ever sign another UFA. Chouinard will be given quite some tiem to show where he belongs and how he fits into the system. And judging from his last couple of preseason games where he was much better I think he might be settling in.

I agree. There is no way Nonis is going to try and demote a guy he just signed to a 2-year, 1.1 million dollar deal. It's not good business nor is it smart business.

AV has a job right now, and that is clearly defining the roles for all the players on the team. Until he does that and sees how the players respond individually, I don't think we can really evaluate anybody.

I am going to be giving it some time before I make up my mind on the players, and certainly the new ones.

tantalum wrote:Chouinard is not moving unless he requests it. You can't just trade a guy you signed as a UFA and expect to ever sign another UFA. Chouinard will be given quite some tiem to show where he belongs and how he fits into the system. I believe during the calgary pregame they spoke to both Nonis and AV and while they said they were a bit disappointed in his play up to that point they weren't going to become concerned until it was atleast the 20 game mark and it hadn't picked up.

Fair point, and I would be willing to wait. At the same time, desperate times call for desperate measures, we're not quite desperate right now, but if Bourdon's play picks up and we end up keeping him for the remainder of the season past the 10 game point, and if Chouinard's play hasn't strongly improved, I'd be willing to at that point bite the bullet and trade Chouinard, take our chances.

While it may raise eyebrows around the league, frankly there are GM's who have done much worse to other players, or coaches that are pricks to play for, but UFA's still sign with those teams, signing with any team is a risk and in the grand scheme of things, I can't imagine a UFA looking at a team like the Canucks next year, which hopefully will show that they are young, improving, and building towards being a contender, have a stud in net with Luongo, some rising stars on defense and a solid core of forwards, a coach who is building a reputation as fair (based on comments other people have said about playing for Vigneault), and a GM who has treated players respectfully and had to trade Chouinard because he was under-playing on a fourth-line at $1.1 million, and look at some good money we might throw their way, and say, "No thanks, he traded Chouinard, what if I get over-paid for playing on the fourth line and they want to trade me?" As Carter learned, signing UFA's is a two-way deal, not all 30 teams are created equally, and we have a lot to make us an attractive destination, not all teams will have room, not all teams will have interest, not all teams will live in desirable locations, so the list of eligible suitors is limited, and trading Chouinard really won't be pre-eminent in most UFA's minds.

MarkMM wrote:What scares me is how close we are to the cap, apparently Bourdon's potential bonus counts towards the cap meaning we're at about $43.6 million, and need to shed salary.

The Canucks will start the season projecting a $43,283,333 cap hit. In all likelihood, there will be some key injuries to some of the higher paid players that will likely spell some cap relief. I don't think Nonis will jump to make any salary dumps quickly. He's likely to see how things pan out for a while and what type of injuries occur.

tantalum wrote:Chouinard is not moving unless he requests it. You can't just trade a guy you signed as a UFA and expect to ever sign another UFA. Chouinard will be given quite some tiem to show where he belongs and how he fits into the system. I believe during the calgary pregame they spoke to both Nonis and AV and while they said they were a bit disappointed in his play up to that point they weren't going to become concerned until it was atleast the 20 game mark and it hadn't picked up.

Fair point, and I would be willing to wait. At the same time, desperate times call for desperate measures, we're not quite desperate right now, but if Bourdon's play picks up and we end up keeping him for the remainder of the season past the 10 game point, and if Chouinard's play hasn't strongly improved, I'd be willing to at that point bite the bullet and trade Chouinard, take our chances.

While it may raise eyebrows around the league, frankly there are GM's who have done much worse to other players, or coaches that are pricks to play for, but UFA's still sign with those teams, signing with any team is a risk and in the grand scheme of things, I can't imagine a UFA looking at a team like the Canucks next year, which hopefully will show that they are young, improving, and building towards being a contender, have a stud in net with Luongo, some rising stars on defense and a solid core of forwards, a coach who is building a reputation as fair (based on comments other people have said about playing for Vigneault), and a GM who has treated players respectfully and had to trade Chouinard because he was under-playing on a fourth-line at $1.1 million, and look at some good money we might throw their way, and say, "No thanks, he traded Chouinard, what if I get over-paid for playing on the fourth line and they want to trade me?" As Carter learned, signing UFA's is a two-way deal, not all 30 teams are created equally, and we have a lot to make us an attractive destination, not all teams will have room, not all teams will have interest, not all teams will live in desirable locations, so the list of eligible suitors is limited, and trading Chouinard really won't be pre-eminent in most UFA's minds.

I think the problem is though that it will only save about 500k in cap space when you bring in his replacement. It doesn't do much.

I still think that if the team is blowing chunks and Nonis wants to clear cap space you are looking at Morrison and/or Cooke moving in a trade. that's $4.7 mil in contracts that could be moved if the team is really struggling and needs a further wakeup call. They are also two assets that will bring some talent back. A 3rd/4th line center who you just gave up on isn't going to save much cap space nor is it going to generate much of a return...if any return.

Well they couldn't trade him even if they wanted to...He's out 7-10 days with a slight shoulder separation. So the canucks most maligned player whow has never played a game that counts will be on the sidelines the first few games. Not surprisingly it will be Santala drawing into the lineup not Brandon "he'd be outstanding in any position and in any role" Reid. Go figure.

Seems to me like we have been through this cycle before. Holden, Druken and Reid. All handed the 2nd line Center spot at camp after a strong initial showing, and by hook or by crook all of them quickly bottomed out.

Human beings aren't that creative to manufacture new histories, we just recycle old ones with new faces and names. We are very much locked into a circular chain of events, and Reid just happens to be the next name on the sphere.

Chouinard at 1.1 million needs to contribute to the team more than a guy like Green making the minimum. He needs to do something beyond being a generic 4th line checker.

Nonis figured that he has the ability to do that, and offered him a deal at a higher rate to compensate for it.

Let us give the guy a real chance before we turn him into a new whipping boy.

Too be honest, Matt Cooke is under the gun a lot more than Chouinard, IMO.

Cooke needs to chip in close to the 20 goal mark and have a consistent positive effect on the team to justify his current salary (@ $400K more than Chouinard).

However, like I said I am willing to give everyone on the team a chance to find their game as they have their roles on the team defined. Waiving or trading a guy before we have dropped the puck for the 1st game after Nonis signed a multi-year deal seems a little premature for my liking.

Being gun-shy isn't a good trait to have, but neither is over-reacting when the situation doesn't call for it. I think Nonis will take his time to evaluate his team before he makes any more moves.

Yeah, to be clear, I'm not advocating trading Chouinard now, I was a fan of his signing, thought he addresses a number of this teams problems (size up front, face-off ability, defensively responsible penalty-killer), it's just that we need to drop salary somewhere, and he's become the suspect, IMO.

I don't think it's a problem only dropping maybe $600k (I'm thinking that if we unload Chouinard, he'll be replaced by Santala who is already on the roster, and we'd bring up Reid or Rypien as our 13 guy). That makes us only $400k off where we would have been without Clarke's antics, and if we're at $43.3 now, then that'll bring us down to $42.7, which is a much healthier buffer. And as a salary dump move, I wouldn't really be looking for anything back, Santala or Rypien/Reid would do just fine on the fourth line, a warm body would eat up cap space, so a pick or prospect would be fine by me, we're looking to add depth anyway to the prospect system.