Tuesday, May 10, 2011

John Waters Says His Book Helped a Manson GirlBy Nicki Gostin Posted May 10th 2011 11:30AM

John Waters, the fabulously subversive director who brought us Divine, gave Johnny Depp his first big movie break and the original 'Hairspray' has given us another treat: The paperback version of his collection of essays, 'Role Models,' which is just like the title says, a grouping of Waters's favorite role models. We wasted no time asking the directing legend about his most controversial role model, Leslie Van Houten, a Manson girl. Waters argues that Van Houten has "great remorse" for her crimes and should be released. "She should have gone to jail, but she's been in jail for forty years. It's not like nothing happened to her." He says his chapter on her has improved her living conditions in jail, even.

How did the book come about?When the Tennessee Williams memoirs came out they asked me to write the intro and he was a real role model for me so I got the idea that really I had so many role models so I started making a list and it came together very quickly.

The controversial one would be Leslie Van Houten, one of the Manson girls?Yes, but Leslie has told me she has felt a great change in the visitor's room and from the guards since the book has been published. Her family was grateful because let's face it nobody has written anything nice about any of them. That chapter was my pleading for her to be released. I also brought up the worst things that the victim's relatives said about her release which I felt I had to do in order to be fair.

What do you say to the victims children?I don't say anything to them. I say they can never be wrong because I'm fighting this from society's view point not from a personal view point and I can never address them. I don't feel it's my place to do that. There are people who have forgiven. Could I? I don't know. But I think you have to realize is that Leslie was with a mad man when she was 17 but as one of the victim's nieces said, 'I took LSD and I didn't kill anybody,' and so did I. There's not a fair answer to this question except I do believe that she has great remorse. She should have gone to jail, but she's been in jail for forty years. It's not like nothing happened to her. She hasn't just been sitting there. She's tried to make a life for herself, the best she could with this horrible thing that she did that she can never take back. All she can do is make herself a better person than she would have been hadn't this crime happened and I think she probably has.

Do you regret dedicating 'Pink Flamingos' to three Manson girls?I regret that I was so flippant in a punk rock way, certainly Marilyn Manson did the same thing but at that time certainly I did not pay any respect to the victims and treated it almost as if it wasn't real as if it was a movie or an art project. After I taught in prison I started to really realize the effects on the families of the victims and the families of the killers. None of those people who were in the Manson family that I know had really terrible parents, they were horrified. That was every parent's nightmare what happened to them and their kids met the biggest pimp conman in the world who was really good at it. I was at the trial and he was incredibly charismatic then and it was electrifying and frightening. I can see how as a group how the insanity built and how it could have seemed appealing at the time. In the beginning it was not violent but by the time he turned them to violence they were too far gone. Article Submitted by Mary! Thanks Mary! You Rock!!

yes, St. I agree. I understand that she feels she should be let out because she found Jesus and has changed..blah, blah, blah....

But, Leslie still says her crime was that she stabbed a dead woman...does that sound like taking responsibility?

I don't think she would harm anyone now either...but is that the only point - she has not taken responsibility and has blamed others instead of owning her own actions - whether Rosemary LiBianca was dead when she stabbed her or not...her intention was to inflict harm and death upon another human being - how does she know that all the stab wounds that belonged to Leslie were postmortem!

I thought that one of the qualifications of parole is that you accept responsibility and show remorse for what you did AND proven that you are rehabilitated. I don't see all of those qualifications as being met.

I'll go find the link of a special done for television in the early 80's where they show LULU smiling sitting in a prison class speaking out and laughing- she talks with a reporter and assures them that she will be out by the time she is in her early 30's- she never expected to pay for this- she grew up waiting to be released...

thanks St...in this clip when she says wishes she could have done something to prevent the crimes from happening - and the interviewer told her that she could have prevented it but she choose not to...the look on her face was priceless - SHE JUST DOES NOT GET IT AND NEVER WILL!

At 3min. 30 sec., Les discusses the eye contact exchange between her father and Manson in the courtroom.She explains it with a big smile, and ends the thought with a giggle.Some eery, twisted shit.If it was my father, I certainly wouldn't be relating that memory with a smile... let alone 17 years after-the-fact.She doesn't seem to have made much progress, when this footage was shot (1987).She's kinda laughing throughout actually.Les to the interviewer:"You make it sound like I had a choice"????WTF?

If you look at Pat Krenwinkel & Leslie Van Skanston and compare the 2, you see 2 very different types of people.

Pat was a decent and caring person in her teens, although homely & lonely. Charlie took advantage of that and made her feel loved, thereby turning her into a total devotee, hopefully for life. She didn't realize that it was just another con for Charlie, she believed all that crap.

Leslie on the other hand was attractive and popular in HS, having lots of boyfriends. There's no reason on God's green earth that she should have taken up with Charlie, except that, like Charlie, I believe that Leslie is a Sociopath.

I truly believe that Leslie had serious psychological issues way BEFORE she met Charlie.

Now to present time....Pat, I believe, is truly remorseful and sorry for her actions. Her tears at parole hearings move me, because I think they're sincere. I think she knows that she will never get out, and has accepted that, and truly believes that she doesn't deserve to.

LuLu on the other hand, is constantly trying to find some guy to "champion her" in order to get out. She sits there thru all the parole hearings and giggles when talking about events that should make someone shudder.

She has no love or loyalty to anyone but herself, and that includes her own family.

I find it hilarious that Leslie requested the judge let her fire Ronald Hughes and then says his death caused her not to receive a fair trial. She wanted Hughes fired because he didn't want Leslie to take the blame for Charlie while she demanded to take the blame.

>>>Mr. P said: I find it hilarious that Leslie requested the judge let her fire Ronald Hughes and then says his death caused her not to receive a fair trial. She wanted Hughes fired because he didn't want Leslie to take the blame for Charlie while she demanded to take the blame.>>>

It's hilarious, ironic, and yet subliminal, that she requested that Ronald Hughes be fired (at Charlie's request), and then suddenly he disappears.

Accident??? We'll never know.

She thought she was olly-olly-in-free. She thought that she was going to be as free as a bird.

I'm ambivalent. I think most of them could be released and they would pose no problem to society. But then the desire for vengeance would be somewhat thwarted. Victims' families getting all dissed, etc. It is indeed a conundrum.

I wonder what JimNY thinks of Waters having this book released in paperback. More publicity for Waters, at least for a little while longer.

And the evilliz people have locked up the ability to comment on their blog. So they won't be hearing from me no more. No more nuggets of wisdom from starship allowed...

Pristash, eviliz.com isn't locked-down, we just don't have your email address to invite you to participate. Please email it to the address on the blog and I'll send you an invite. Same for anyone else.

Pristash said>>>>"I'm ambivalent. I think most of them could be released and they would pose no problem to society. But then the desire for vengeance would be somewhat thwarted. Victims' families getting all dissed, etc. It is indeed a conundrum".<<<<

I agree.I doubt most of them would pose a significant risk to society, at this point.But, then again (as you suggested), retribution is also one of the main purposes of incarceration, as well... beyond just rehabilitation.

For the sake of discussion...I believe Manson could still pose a risk to society... not so much for what he would do personally... but, for what he could potentially inspire a few weak-brained folks to do... albeit, unintentionally even.I don't believe he's well mentally, even after 40+ years.My opinion, and that point, is moot however, as his prison behavior (and other factors), will never make him a serious candidate for parole anyway.

St. C, I like your avatar. If the season takes place it will be my 31st year as a Buffalo Bills season ticket holder. I have been on the sidelines just twice. Last year they did a pre game ceremony for vets from all wars going back to WWII, of which my father took part. It was the proudest day of my life.

Only eight teams have rallied from 3-1 to win a series in NBA playoff history and Boston has done it twice (both against the Sixers). It won’t be three times. Like the Lakers, this team just looks old and fatigued. When Miami’s Big 3 has combined for at least 80 points this year the Heat are pretty much unbeatable, going 14-1. I do believe that Boston will show some heart, unlike the Lakers in their first elimination game. So while Miami wins, take Boston and the points and the ‘over’.

It's not gonna happen though.The Celtics have two obstacles, and neither has anything to do with the Heat's talent.1) The Celtic's are out of gas.The guy's just don't have the stamina left at their age.2) Maybe more importantly... with Shaq injured, and Perkins (stupidly) traded, we don't have a "big body" in the middle.That's the same reason the Lakers beat us last year.We had no center for to wear down guys like Bynum, Artest, Gasol and Odom.When will they ever learn?!

My Dad also served in WWII.He was in the pacific (Navy), fighting the Japanese.He was awarded the WWII Victory Ribbon, The Asciatic-Pacific Ribbon with 5 Stars, and the American Area Ribbon.When he passed-away, the Navy sent a 3-man contingent to his funeral... played Taps, and folded the Flag (which was on his casket),and presented it to my Mom.I bought a special glass case for it... and it's displayed in her living room.They also installed a square stone, from the Navy on his grave.A great source of pride for sure brother!

You asked:>>>>"I wonder what JimNY thinks of Waters having this book released in paperback. More publicity for Waters, at least for a little while longer.<<<<

Jim contacted me, with a reply to your question.He asked me to forward an e-mail message to you.Jim says he's given-up blogging, and will only communicate via e-mail, or on Youtube.I told him you wouldn't likely be sharing an e-mail address... so, Jim suggested you open a temporary YouTube account.At any rate Pristash... it doesn't matter in the least to me, whether you follow-up with Jim or not.That's your choice.I told Jim, I'd relay his message... and I did.If you wanna share a YouTube account at any point with Jim, for these purposes... let me know... and I'll get that information to him.If not... that's cool too.It's none of my business, either way.I told him I'd relay the message to you... nothing more, nothing less.

didn't leslie change her story about the goings-on of aug 9 a few times? one was something about how/why she ended up rifling thru rosemary's clothes. 'because tex told me to' was one reason given, but another time it was 'because tex wanted to wear my jeans!' haha! how the hell could tex fit into her jeans? even if he COULD squeeze into them, they'd barely come down to below his knees!

and i agree with katie and lyryrd on pat vs. lvh.

pat appears genuine and credible when she speaks with deep remorse about the appalling murders in which she participated. just look at the expression of HORROR on her face as she speaks of them.

leslie. . .she attempts to diminish her role in the labianca murders, and even given her acting skills, fails to sound convincing if/when she accidentally happens to slip in something which vaguely resembles remorse.

also katie, lvh has lost her looks - - so i seriously doubt she'll be able to woo any more knights in shining armor to come to her rescue!

crap! i finally leave another comment, and google's meltdown eats it! haha! yeah, i tried to log on LAST night too, but to no avail. and google's information only mentioned maintenance which would cause a harmless 'read only' status for a short time. wrong!

oh well, my comment was some of the same old griping about lvh. like how she'd change her story on her involvement in the labianca murders. for example, how/why she rifled thru rosemary's clothing. one time it was more or less 'because tex told me to.' another time it was because 'tex wanted to wear my blue jeans.' seriously?? assuming tex could even squeeze into them, they'd still hit him just below the knees! was he planning to wade thru the creek behind spahn ranch later on? lol

i think the last line of it was something like 'katie, leslie has lost her looks now. she won't be able to woo any more knights in shining armor to come to her rescue.'

FRIENDS

"Charlie Manson is a five foot seven schizophrenic, who if it weren't for the murder of Sharon Tate, would never be known or discussed. And I'm not saying he isn't funny and entertaining. I'm saying he's a dime a dozen criminal-class punk, who had the good fortune of running into some middle class pseudo-revolutionary white girls." -- Tom G

"The simple and undeniable truth, is that Charlie and the gang were/are the biggest idiots, morons and imbeciles on the planet." -- Leary7

"Them fucking fruitcakes could not pour piss out of a boot, with the bottom written on it."--Harold True