Wes, I agree completely. Thanks for the reminders of the
LANn-N and LINKn-N solutions! THey work well and they
are under local control! And yes, you can see
someone's path on the D700, just hit P.MON to see the
raw packets.
>>>aprs at kd4rdb.com 10/26/04 7:47:14 PM >>>
I know this will stir up a whole mess in the proverbial "pot", but here
goes...
Bob, your idea of self policing is great to an extent. I don't like
"big
brother" restricting my packets, and I know your philosophy well enough
to know
that you/we/me don't want the network to stop me from doing something I
_may_
need to do in the event of an emergency. I agree with this
completely.
BUT... (hey, there's always a but in there)
I fear APRS will suffer the same fate as the PBBS systems did 10 years
ago when
they collapsed on themselves sending those darned "for sale" messages
to
allusa. There was so much QRM on the bbs frequencies, especially in
the rual
areas with the userport on the same frequency as the bbs forwarding
port that
the users couldn't get in. The result was the users quit using the
system, and
all that was left was a hollow shell of FORSALE messages. It's like a
black
hole... the more popular it becomes, the more crowded it gets, the
more
aggrivating it gets. Next thing you know, it collapses on itself. I
don't
want to see APRS suffer that same fate.
My point is that while I agree with having the freedom to use any path
I can
dream up, I also see the result... packets originating from stations
who cannot
be reached to ask them to make a correction - or stations such as
ww1r/nc4cv in
NC who _wouldn't_ make a change. This puts the local digi op's in a
position
of having to restrict access to the local digi's by the offending
stations.
Here in Sumter SC, the local digi won't digipeat you on RF if you have
more
than 3 hops in your path. This is done with javaaprs, but on a KPC3
type digi,
the only option is to bud list the offenders. I really hate to do that
because
when they find out they've been budlisted, they get angry at the
digiowners.
But as a digi owner, I've gotta do something to control the network for
the
good of all. But alas, I don't think budlisting is the answer, and
java aprs
requires a PC to run which I do not expect most digi operators will
want to
install at their sites. Also, when you budlist someone for running a
crazy
path, then they respond by using even worse paths like RELAY RELAY
RELAY RELAY
and running enough power to reach a home stations who hasn't budlisted
him.
I think the two real solutions we have at hand are:
1)LANn-n implemented on a state by state basis. SCn-n, VAn-n, NCn-n,
and GAn-n
are active in some/most areas of these states. Eventually, when these
LANn-n
systems are widespread enough, we'll shut off WIDEn-n in areas
picareously over
burdened already... just as people in L.A. have shut off RELAY. I also
realize
that this has the downside of looking like a tower of babble, where
travelers
must know specifics of the areas they visit in order to access the
network. A
simple path of WIDE,WIDE would have to remain universal. I sure wish
the
kenwood d700 and d7a(g) would show the path information... users of
these
radios don't stand a chance of learning the local customary paths.
2)Alt-input digi's.... these give the mobiles a fair chance to get into
the
network when they don't stand a chance otherwise due to hidden
transmitter
problems caused by 100's of out of town packets streaming into the
local area.
This is the equivalent of putting the userport on a different frequency
than the
forwarding port in the PBBS example above. The users, of course, still
listen
on the forwarding port frequency.
Just my thoughts... and Bob, pse don't take offense, I'm not picking on
you!
Wes
--
Quoting Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>:
> >Might I suggest to those...make a list of those with
> >wide5-5 or greater..and post here on the SIG.
>> For those with APRSdos, it is trivial to find the bad apples:
> On the DIGI-PATH (D) page:
>> Use the JUST command as in : "J wide5"
> and a list of all the WIDE5-N users will be listed.
> Similar for the 6's and 7's, etc...
>> Self policing is the HAM radio way..... Thanks, Bob
>>> _______________________________________________
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