Hi Gang,
Since the board voted to submit an LOI for the wallis space today, I am
going to try to arrange for a showing of the Wallis space tomorrow. Ben
and Tom are interested at least. Ben can't make it after 2 if I
understood correctly so I will suggest to the Realtor that it be between
10 am and 1pm. How does that sound and who else is interested?
Clif
On 03/04/2014 08:27 PM, Benjamin Hallert wrote:
> Very good! I don't know if there are any other collaborative map
> tools that might be better, but I was certainly attracted to the "no
> account required to contribute" aspect of this one.
>> (I have indeed read Anatthem, and it is a particularly singular book
> in scope of creativity. That moment when the color of the laser was
> "wrong"...)
> - Ben
>>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Bob Miller <kbob at jogger-egg.com> <mailto:kbob at jogger-egg.com>> wrote:
>> Et voila! I reload ze page, and ze zoom, zhe eez made wider. C'est
> magnefique!
>> (Has anyone read Anathem by Neal Stephenson? A Frenchman joins a
> group of humanoid aliens, and when he sees their new device, he
> exclaims, "Magnefique!" The device is then known as a monyafeek for
> the rest of the book.)
>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Ben Hallert <ben at hallert.net> wrote:
> > Whoa, you do live out there! I haven't discovered a way to set
> the default
> > zoom, if anyone else wants to take a shot at it the admin
> password is
> > 'garglehorse'.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > - Ben
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Bob Miller <kbob at jogger-egg.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have added my house. Can you please change the default zoom
> level
> >> so that it's on-screen? (It's 15 miles southwest of Eugene.)
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Ben Hallert <ben at hallert.net>
> wrote:
> >> > Per Ellery's excellent idea to get a visualization of where our
> >> > membership
> >> > is, I've created a example ZeeMaps map that we should all be
> able to add
> >> > pushpins to without needing to log in. Could we perhaps send
> something
> >> > like
> >> > this out to the larger distribution with a request for
> participation as
> >> > part
> >> > of gathering this data? I suggest some basic text along the
> lines of:
> >> >
> >> > -----------
> >> > The Board and Committee To Embiggen Our Space is looking for
> information
> >> > to
> >> > help choose our future location. As part of this, we'd like
> to get an
> >> > idea
> >> > of where everyone lives or thinks they'll be commuting from most
> >> > frequently.
> >> > If you would like your location to be taken into
> consideration in
> >> > determining where we'll go next, please visit the following
> link and
> >> > click
> >> > 'Additions' then 'Add Marker - Simple' and follow the
> instructions to
> >> > enter
> >> > a pushpin. Be as specific or as general as you want, we're
> just looking
> >> > for
> >> > general location data to help with planning.
> >> >
> >> > http://bit.ly/1i6zKvp> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> > -----------
> >> >
> >> > This way we can hopefully get a basic idea of where everyone
> is coming
> >> > from
> >> > that might help define the ideal geofence.
> >> >
> >> > Thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > - Ben
> >> >
> >> > - Ben
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Ellery Weber
> <ellery at elleryweber.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Off the top of my head:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> · It needs to be affordable.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> It does make me a bit anxious to jump in feet first into
> something that
> >> >> is
> >> >> more than double our current rent. I know we have some
> people who have
> >> >> volunteered to help out by donating more to help with rent.
> I know that
> >> >> many
> >> >> people did that at the McKinley space as well, so I'm
> totally fine with
> >> >> doing that again. It just makes me nervous, but that's not a
> big deal
> >> >> in the
> >> >> long run if we have supporters. I do think that this
> committee and the
> >> >> board
> >> >> needs to make this a requirement and set hard numbers. A
> hard look at
> >> >> member
> >> >> runoff, utility fluctuation, income fluctuation, and
> committed members
> >> >> donating extra to make ends meet needs to happen before this
> number can
> >> >> be
> >> >> set.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> · It needs to be accessible
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> It would be neat to see where all our current members lived,
> and try to
> >> >> find a location that is a mid-point for all of them. That
> only takes
> >> >> into
> >> >> account current members, so there is selection bias, but
> would be
> >> >> interesting nonetheless. I think our current area is good.
> West Eugene
> >> >> tends
> >> >> to be more industrial, so we could fit in better. Being
> close to
> >> >> residential
> >> >> is problematic, so the fact that there is an apartment
> attached to the
> >> >> Wallis unit is a cause for concern for me, but depending on
> the tenant
> >> >> may
> >> >> be a non-issue.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> · It needs to have the proper resources available for EMS to be
> >> >> useful (and to grow!)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mostly, here I'm talking about shop space, office space,
> power, and
> >> >> other
> >> >> amenities that are a requirement for a working shop to
> function.
> >> >> Below, I
> >> >> use the word 'plenty'. This is very subjective, but I
> believe a fixed
> >> >> number
> >> >> should be decided upon as a minimum. Just throwing it out
> there, but
> >> >> the
> >> >> 2000 sq foot total that was proposed by Weston sounds good
> on paper. It
> >> >> would depend on shape and how much was the office space vs
> shop space.
> >> >>
> >> >> This list, in my mind, includes (not exhaustive):
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. Plenty of shop space
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. Plenty of office/clean space
> >> >>
> >> >> 3. Bathroom
> >> >>
> >> >> 4. Utility sink
> >> >>
> >> >> 5. 3 phase power
> >> >>
> >> >> 6. Plenty of power outlets
> >> >>
> >> >> 7. Flexibility to make minor adjustments (tape off areas of the
> >> >> floor, run network jacks, paint?)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> · It needs to be secure
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> There are a few places I've seen that are in pretty sketchy
> areas of
> >> >> Eugene. I'd have to look through the wiki again to find
> which ones, but
> >> >> I
> >> >> know at least one of them was in a place that I wouldn't
> really feel
> >> >> comfortable leaving my car parked out front let alone leave
> expensive
> >> >> tools
> >> >> inside. Security for members tools is a high importance if
> we want to
> >> >> try
> >> >> and build a community workshop and expect people to feel
> comfortable
> >> >> leaving
> >> >> their stuff at the space.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Again, this is just off the top of my head and fairly general.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> EW
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Ps, I only proofread this once, so please forgive any
> >> >> errors/misspellings
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> From: Mr. Clif [mailto:clif at eugeneweb.com]
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 4:21 PM
> >> >> To: Ellery Weber
> >> >> Cc: 'board'; 'Committee'
> >> >> Subject: Re: [EMS Board] [EMS Committee] Agenda items, and
> Wallis walk
> >> >> through
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Those are all good talking points but it's up to everyone to
> share
> >> >> their
> >> >> view points on this. What are yours Ellery?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Clif
> >> >>
> >> >> On 03/04/2014 04:09 PM, Ellery Weber wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> These are excellent points, Weston -- thank you for bringing
> them up.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Based on what we want, we can look at up to $1000/mo, and at
> least 2000
> >> >> sq
> >> >> ft - is that correct?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> EW
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> From: Committee
> [mailto:committee-bounces at eugenemakerspace.com] On
> >> >> Behalf
> >> >> Of Weston Turner
> >> >> Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 11:55 PM
> >> >> To: Rick Osgood
> >> >> Cc: board; Committee
> >> >> Subject: Re: [EMS Committee] [EMS Board] Agenda items, and
> Wallis walk
> >> >> through
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I want to clarify what my vision for EMS is and how that
> informs the
> >> >> decisions I have made that affect the space. I'd like to
> also point out
> >> >> my
> >> >> observations of how our space is used in order to justify
> what we have
> >> >> and
> >> >> have not done as an organization.
> >> >>
> >> >> In my mind, the most important thing that EMS provides to
> its members
> >> >> is a
> >> >> community workshop. Therefore the most important thing I can
> do is make
> >> >> sure
> >> >> the shop is well stocked with useful tools, is organized
> such that
> >> >> those
> >> >> tools are readily usable, and is clean so that members can
> work on
> >> >> their
> >> >> projects without having to clean up other member's messes
> first.
> >> >>
> >> >> To this end, I think we have accomplished two of those three
> goals, the
> >> >> shop is now clean (although member storage and the parts
> area could be
> >> >> more
> >> >> tidy), but the shop working areas are very clean and usable.
> We have a
> >> >> wide
> >> >> assortment of tools that are in good working order. In fact,
> based on a
> >> >> maker-shop book that Mark showed me, we are a mature shop,
> only lacking
> >> >> a
> >> >> couple of more advanced tools such as a laser
> cutter/engraver and CNC
> >> >> machinery. Where I think we have the most room for
> improvement is shop
> >> >> organization, such as making tools and parts more easily
> locatable, and
> >> >> the
> >> >> organization of space itself so that it is more easily
> cleaned and
> >> >> moved
> >> >> about in. There are many things we can do to improve
> usability: place
> >> >> large
> >> >> tools and equipment, tables, and other difficult to move
> things on
> >> >> lockable
> >> >> casters so they can be easily pushed around by a single
> person, create
> >> >> a
> >> >> parts database so that memeber's can determine what parts we
> have and
> >> >> where
> >> >> they are located, do the same thing for our tools, make
> outlines of
> >> >> tools
> >> >> where they are stored so they can easily be placed back
> where the came
> >> >> from,
> >> >> etc..
> >> >>
> >> >> The other focus of our group is community outreach, and I
> maintain that
> >> >> if
> >> >> the community can come in to our shop on open hack nights
> and with the
> >> >> assistance of members, use the shop and learn how to use
> tools and make
> >> >> stuff, then that mission is primarily fulfilled. An added
> function is
> >> >> for
> >> >> EMS to go out into the community and participate in events
> for outreach
> >> >> and
> >> >> to let people know who we are and what we do. By the way,
> kudos to Mark
> >> >> for
> >> >> putting on an excellent panel discussion on Kickstarter. I
> learned a
> >> >> lot,
> >> >> and thought everyone did an excellent job. The event was
> well attended,
> >> >> and
> >> >> I thought people came away with their questions answered and
> with good
> >> >> insight into how to make Kickstarter work for them. Thank
> you to the
> >> >> panelists and volunteers who helped put the event on as well.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding moving to a new space, we should only consider a
> particular
> >> >> new
> >> >> space if it will increase our capacity for making, by
> immediately and
> >> >> with
> >> >> little to no improvement required provide for more tools
> (laser cutter,
> >> >> welders, plasma cutter, CNC, etc.), motivate more people to
> join due to
> >> >> having a more functional space, and encourage added
> membership and foot
> >> >> traffic due to a better location and street presence (read:
> a more
> >> >> central
> >> >> location). We also have to be able to afford the move-in
> costs and
> >> >> first
> >> >> several months of operation at current membership levels.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regarding the notion that we are going to move into a space
> of 3X the
> >> >> cost
> >> >> and radically change the model of operation of the shop in
> order to
> >> >> fund it,
> >> >> i.e., by teaching classes, I am skeptical that we can pull
> this off due
> >> >> to
> >> >> the following reasons: most members have day jobs that
> consume the
> >> >> majority
> >> >> of their time and energy, I/we would be reluctant to pour a
> tremendous
> >> >> amount of additional energy into converting EMS from a
> community shop
> >> >> into a
> >> >> business (which is essentially what a non-free school is) with
> >> >> potentially
> >> >> very demanding customers (students). I do envision EMS
> putting on
> >> >> classes,
> >> >> but not at the scale at which it would cover the larger
> portion of our
> >> >> budget. We have thus far not held classes at the shop, and
> we need to
> >> >> do so
> >> >> in order to work out the process of holding them and to
> gauge levels of
> >> >> participation.
> >> >>
> >> >> In light of these reasons, and the fact that the shop for
> the majority
> >> >> of
> >> >> the time goes totally unutilized, I am not compelled to
> settle for a
> >> >> space
> >> >> that does not satisfy the goals mentioned above and
> additionally the
> >> >> following requirements:
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall be at least twice the size of our current
> space and
> >> >> no
> >> >> more than twice the cost. Read: that as less than or equal
> to 2X the
> >> >> current
> >> >> cost and greater than or equal to 2X the space...
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall be partitioned roughly equally between
> shop and
> >> >> office
> >> >> space, with the office space not exceeding the size of the
> shop. Maybe
> >> >> 1/3
> >> >> office and 2/3 shop would be the most unequal partition
> allowable.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall be accessible, i.e, conveniently located
> so that it
> >> >> is a
> >> >> compelling hang out spot and readily used by members without
> a long
> >> >> commute.
> >> >> Read: no less centrally located than we already are.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> - The shop space shall have at least one overhead door.
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall have utilities in place to make it
> immediately
> >> >> usable,
> >> >> i.e. electrical outlets 120/240V and preferable 3 phase
> available.
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall have a bathroom and a utility sink.
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall be easily secured in order to protect
> member's tools.
> >> >>
> >> >> - The space shall permit a flexible lease arrangement,
> ideally month to
> >> >> month, with 6 months, and a year lease being less optimal.
> That way we
> >> >> can
> >> >> recover from a failure to grow into a larger space without
> being
> >> >> scarred by
> >> >> legal troubles from an inability to meet the lease agreement.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I encourage you all to add to, these requirements (or
> challenge them),
> >> >> and
> >> >> for that matter, add to, question, and challenge the ideas
> put forward
> >> >> in
> >> >> this mail in general (as it's just my 2 cents, but maybe
> closer to a
> >> >> nickel
> >> >> or a dime at this length :))
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> Weston
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Weston Turner
> <wstnturner at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd like to discuss whether we want to have a presence at
> these two
> >> >> events
> >> >> at the UO this Saturday and the Saturday after (thanks to
> Mark for
> >> >> forwarding these events to Discuss):
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >> From: Brandy Todd <btodd at uoregon.edu>
> >> >> Date: Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:04 AM
> >> >> Subject: Science Fair & Queen's Ball Call for Presenters!
> >> >> To: spicescience at uoregon.edu> >> >> Cc: Ariana Evensen <evensen at uoregon.edu>, UO STEM CORE
> >> >> <stemcore at uoregon.edu>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Greetings All,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> It Science Fair time once again! And once again, we'd love
> to have
> >> >> your
> >> >> group host an activity table at the event. BUT WAIT! There's
> MORE!
> >> >> This
> >> >> year as part of my SLUG Queen "Rain" I am holding a
> fundraiser for
> >> >> SPICE and
> >> >> we'd love to have volunteers/participants for that as well. All
> >> >> proceeds
> >> >> will go to the SPICE program to support girls in SCIENCE!
> Details
> >> >> below
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Science Fair - March 8th 11am-3pm - Willamette Atrium -
> Would your
> >> >> group
> >> >> like to host an activity table? Would your members like to
> volunteer
> >> >> to
> >> >> help out/judge? Please let us know. This is a super fun
> event for all
> >> >> ages
> >> >> and a great way to showcase the wonderful outreach your
> program does.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Slug Queen's Pi-Pie Gala Ball Extravaganza! - March 15th
> 7pm-11pm in
> >> >> the
> >> >> Willamette Atrium. Imaging the Fall Science Open House, but for
> >> >> adults!
> >> >> We're going to have tons of fun science, music dancing (and
> no kids ;-)
> >> >> !).
> >> >> We need volunteers for all aspects of the event and groups
> to host
> >> >> activities for attendees. We've already nailed down
> microscope making
> >> >> and
> >> >> Liquid Nitrogen Ice Cream/Dry Ice Root Beer Floats. Do you
> have a fun
> >> >> demo
> >> >> or activity you'd like to show off for an adult audience
> (get as racy
> >> >> as you
> >> >> like)? This is the event for you. Featuring music by Accordions
> >> >> Anonymous.
> >> >> Poster Attached. Please share with your friends and if you
> don't want
> >> >> to
> >> >> present, then come and have fun as a guest!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/events/226564254198673/> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If we want to participate, we need to call out for
> volunteers and
> >> >> figure
> >> >> out what we want to have at our table. I'd like to see us
> there, so
> >> >> I'll
> >> >> step up to volunteer.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Rick Osgood
> <rick at richardosgood.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> First, I like all of the points Weston has called out in his
> last email
> >> >> in
> >> >> the thread. That's the kind of thing I was talking about. If
> that was
> >> >> decided already and posted somewhere before then I'm sorry I
> either
> >> >> missed
> >> >> it or forgot.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Second, I didn't mean to demean Clif's efforts. I know he
> put more
> >> >> work
> >> >> into finding the new spaces than anyone else likely did. I do
> >> >> appreciate
> >> >> that. I am just trying to get us to make sure we know what
> we are
> >> >> doing
> >> >> before putting ourselves in the same situation as before.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Third, I should mention that to begin with I was all for the
> "bite the
> >> >> bullet" approach with the Wilson space that we missed out
> on. Now that
> >> >> I
> >> >> see where that lead us, I think it would be wise to try another
> >> >> approach
> >> >> this time. That's what I'm getting at.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Rick
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Kassie
> <kassandra_kaplan at yahoo.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I have to say that while I don't like the situation we are
> in and the
> >> >> pressure behind it, I believe cliff is trying his best to do
> his job
> >> >> and he
> >> >> has being put in a situation where his work amounts to
> nothing because
> >> >> of
> >> >> our response time. We have lost good spaces because we could
> not react
> >> >> and
> >> >> for Clif that means countless memos and conversation add to
> nothing.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> At one point, everyone was driven to move into a new space
> and it was I
> >> >> that felt "under the gun" to except the need to make the
> leap of faith.
> >> >> I
> >> >> hear people say "move or die" and that when we moved into
> our current
> >> >> space
> >> >> you had to just "hope it would all work out". While I'm glad
> we are
> >> >> being
> >> >> more realistic and metered in our approach, I do take
> exception to
> >> >> people
> >> >> complaining about what they were doing a few months ago.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I think we need we need to go a step farther then what mark is
> >> >> suggesting.
> >> >> I think we need to create a protocol for finding, assessing,
> applying,
> >> >> and
> >> >> renting a new space.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> It would include all our "wants and dreams" but it should
> also include
> >> >> algorithm that will put us in a space quickly. While, it's
> important to
> >> >> know
> >> >> what we want and can afford, we need to be able to get it.
> There is no
> >> >> point debating a place if we can't actually get the place.
> In fact, I
> >> >> suggest we should suspend looking for a new place till we
> get this
> >> >> protocol
> >> >> in place or those looking for spaces are wasting their time.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Kassie
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mar 3, 2014, at 5:41 PM, "Mr. Clif" <clif at eugeneweb.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> The reason I'm putting pressure on us is because a few of us
> have
> >> >> already
> >> >> agreed that $1200 would be dooable, and that this place will
> be gone
> >> >> this
> >> >> week. Also we have been skipping space committee meetings
> and board
> >> >> meetings
> >> >> when I had a decent list of agenda items to catch up on. But
> without a
> >> >> clear
> >> >> option in front of us I guess as a group we didn't feel the
> need to
> >> >> work
> >> >> these details out. Now that we have something it's too late
> to work
> >> >> them
> >> >> out. Sigh...
> >> >>
> >> >> Clif
> >> >>
> >> >> Ok then I guess there is no point in looking at the Wallis
> place this
> >> >> week.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 03/03/2014 04:50 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Well put, Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Mark Danburg-Wyld
> >> >> <danburgwyld at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree with that, Rick - not that I think Clif is trying to
> put anyone
> >> >> under the gun, but that we need some consensus before we can
> try to go
> >> >> forward with any particular site. Seems to me that the best
> approach is
> >> >> to
> >> >> recognize we will likely be in a "stretch" position when we
> do move to
> >> >> a
> >> >> larger space, and also to recognize there will be some
> trade-offs to
> >> >> consider in terms of location and features. But give that,
> can we
> >> >> strive to
> >> >> reach a consensus around something like:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. no more than $X/month
> >> >>
> >> >> 2. at least Y sq. ft.
> >> >> 3. no fewer than three of the following benefits:
> >> >> a. multiple bays,
> >> >> b. 3 phase,
> >> >> c. etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> 4. none of the following show-stoppers:
> >> >>
> >> >> a. Springfield address
> >> >>
> >> >> b. etc.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Then, once we have that level of clarity around what we
> want, when the
> >> >> next right space comes online, we'll be positioned to jump.
> If after
> >> >> some
> >> >> period of time, we find that our requirements do not overlap
> with
> >> >> reality,
> >> >> revisit and adjust, repeat...
> >> >>
> >> >> Otherwise, I think, we'll keep ending up with 'this space looks
> >> >> good'/'feels like a rush to decide' kind of debate.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Rick Osgood
> <rick at richardosgood.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I would simply like to see EMS as an organization come to some
> >> >> consensus
> >> >> as to what it is willing to accept as "affordable". EMS
> needs to
> >> >> figure out
> >> >> how much money we have and then decide how much risk we are
> willing to
> >> >> accept by making a commitment over that amount. This is
> really about
> >> >> two
> >> >> things. Affordability and Risk.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Clif, the way you are pushing this makes me feel you are
> attempting to
> >> >> put
> >> >> everyone under the gun and make them feel pressured to sign
> a new lease
> >> >> hope
> >> >> everything magically works out. That might work, but in my
> opinion
> >> >> it's not
> >> >> the way an three year old organization should operate. It's
> sloppy and
> >> >> unnecessary. I think it's unfair for you to push that kind
> of pressure
> >> >> on
> >> >> every one else. If there are a bunch of members who are want
> to take
> >> >> this
> >> >> approach again then I'll retract my last statement but I
> didn't get the
> >> >> feeling anyone wanted to go through that again. Why don't we
> learn
> >> >> from our
> >> >> mistakes instead of repeating them?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Let's say we find a space for $1200/month today. Then what?
> We still
> >> >> have to decide if we can "afford it" by paying out of our
> savings,
> >> >> making up
> >> >> the difference, and accepting the risk that it might take us
> a while to
> >> >> actually start breaking even again. How about we decide what
> that
> >> >> acceptable risk level is now and then approach this
> intelligently,
> >> >> rather
> >> >> than waiting until the last minute again and making everyone
> feel
> >> >> pressured?
> >> >> We tried the "jump in with two feet" approach last time and
> it didn't
> >> >> work
> >> >> because we didn't have a clear definition of what level of
> risk we are
> >> >> willing to accept. What makes you think the result will be any
> >> >> different
> >> >> this time around when we still haven't figured out the
> acceptable risk?
> >> >> Let's not waste the renter or the realtor's time again.
> Let's figure
> >> >> out
> >> >> what we are comfortable with first, then then when it comes
> time to
> >> >> pull the
> >> >> trigger we won't be able to hesitate on the financial issues
> because we
> >> >> will
> >> >> have already made that decision.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Mr. Clif
> <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Well ok can we afford anything more than we are paying now?
> One answer
> >> >> is
> >> >> no, it will put us in the red. On the other hand If everyone
> that
> >> >> pledged
> >> >> extra is still good for that then that's another $500. So
> its close.
> >> >> But
> >> >> then we will have utils and other extra stuff so still no,
> can't do it.
> >> >> You
> >> >> could wait for 1500 sq foot space or a 2000 sq ft space but
> they will
> >> >> be in
> >> >> random places that we don't really like etc... Then you
> could stay in
> >> >> them
> >> >> for a year each and slowly work up to bigger spaces. Or we
> could just
> >> >> go
> >> >> for it and save ourselves a couple of moves and the years
> flying by.
> >> >> Because
> >> >> if we wait longer than a few days this space will be Gone...
> >> >>
> >> >> In summary, all we have to do is wring our hands and drag
> our feet and
> >> >> the
> >> >> spaces will just evaporate right before our very eyes. ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Clif
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 03/03/2014 03:07 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I think before we start scheduling a walk through and
> appointments and
> >> >> bugging the realtor, I'd like to see EMS decide on solid
> numbers. I
> >> >> think
> >> >> Clif is right that it's a perceptual problem and different
> people think
> >> >> that
> >> >> different amounts sound acceptable. That's something that is
> bound to
> >> >> happen as a community but as an single organization we have
> to come to
> >> >> some
> >> >> agreement. I think the board, or perhaps this committee,
> should vote
> >> >> to
> >> >> approve numbers for Rent and Utilities and then we will only
> schedule
> >> >> appointments for places that we believe meet those
> requirements.
> >> >> Otherwise
> >> >> we are likely to do the exact same thing as last time. We
> can tell the
> >> >> Realtor straight up to only look at spaces that meet these
> >> >> requirements.
> >> >> Then she will know that we won't sit on our hands for a
> month trying to
> >> >> figure out where the money is going to come from.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I think it's really important that we learn our lesson from
> this last
> >> >> experience and do it right this time around. $1200 does
> sound much
> >> >> better
> >> >> than $1400 in my opinion but can we actually afford that? I
> have no
> >> >> idea.
> >> >> Does anyone have any idea? Again, I'd like to see some solid
> numbers
> >> >> coming
> >> >> back from the board so we all know exactly where we draw the
> line and
> >> >> we
> >> >> don't sit around trying to make a decision. We make that
> decision
> >> >> first,
> >> >> then we can jump on a space immediately.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Mr. Clif
> <clif at eugeneweb.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> This is an excellent question Bob,
> >> >>
> >> >> I think part of the (perceptual) problem with the Wilson
> space was we
> >> >> didn't have the money in
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Committee mailing list
> >> >> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com> >> >> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Board mailing list
> >> >> Board at eugenemakerspace.com> >> >>
>http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board>> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >> Board mailing list
> >> >>
> >> >> Board at eugenemakerspace.com> >> >>
> >> >>
>http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board>> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Committee mailing list
> >> >> Committee at eugenemakerspace.com> >> >> http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Board mailing list
> >> > Board at eugenemakerspace.com> >> >
>http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/com.eugenemakerspace.board>> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Bob Miller K<bob>
> >> kbob at jogger-egg.com> >
> >
>>>> --
> Bob Miller K<bob>
>kbob at jogger-egg.com>>>>> _______________________________________________
> Committee mailing list
>Committee at eugenemakerspace.com>http://eugenemakerspace.com/mailman/listinfo/committee
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://eugenemakerspace.com/pipermail/com.eugenemakerspace.discuss/attachments/20140304/d706aec9/attachment.html>