Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

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Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by Fearandloathing

Damn good plan.....

Coupled with a restorative plan, it might work. The Berlin Wall came down because of American blue jeans, rock and roll and Playboy magazine.

The US has created resentment in the people, I have listened to them. They do not understand at all why they are punished for something over which they have no control, the actions of an unelected government. When Kennedy invoked them, it was to save face, without any regard for the consequences to the people, while the US was still aiding and rebuilding Japan and Germany.

The hearts and the minds of a nation are what needs winning, not ego battles and heavy artillery. Poland's Solidarity could not have gone anywhere without the Polish people behind them, and they followed because they wanted ****ing tractor parts, blue jeans, and better Vodka.

Having been to Cuba, having compared it to other Caribbean islands, it is the same here. Let in some ****ing blue jeans, baseball uniforms, cleats and bats along with some auto parts and Raul won't last long.

Obama, as usual, is blowing smoke, he has no clear agenda other than what he can mis-represent to the American people, with an agenda that has so far only angered the country's leadership. Based on history, from Vietnam to Iraq, I am certain the White House doesn't know the first ****ing thing about the needs of the people....they are functioning on the needs of the White House.

When you win their hearts and minds, their asses and pocketbooks are soon to follow.

Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by US Conservative

HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.

"One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."

Cuba has been embargoed by the US for 50 years, but they trade with most other nations. They have lots of tourists and foreign investment, but it has not improved the lot of ordinary cubans a bit. I don't know why the administration thinks that Cuba is going to change just because we drop the embargo. The cuban government doesn't let citizens do their own deals with foreigners.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by LowDown

Cuba has been embargoed by the US for 50 years, but they trade with most other nations. They have lots of tourists and foreign investment, but it has not improved the lot of ordinary cubans a bit. I don't know why the administration thinks that Cuba is going to change just because we drop the embargo. The cuban government doesn't let citizens do their own deals with foreigners.

Exactly! Im still waiting for someone to explain to me how this is a good thing, so far the lefty response seems to be "what we are doing now isn't working".

My next thought is so why do something else that you also know does not work?

Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by US Conservative

Exactly! Im still waiting for someone to explain to me how this is a good thing, so far the lefty response seems to be "what we are doing now isn't working".

My next thought is so why do something else that you also know does not work?

On the other hand, the changes that Cuba made over the last two years have been a good start. They loosened up the market for private exchange and abolished their duel currency system in which tourists get one currency and the citizens get another. This opens up the possiblity of trade with foreigners, but so far it's still illegal there to hire cubans without going through the government.

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by US Conservative

Exactly! Im still waiting for someone to explain to me how this is a good thing, so far the lefty response seems to be "what we are doing now isn't working". My next thought is so why do something else that you also know does not work?

Cons have a piss poor concept of why we 'won' the cold war. Not because Reagan spent us into being the biggest debtor nation after being the biggest creditor nation but rather because looser import regulation allowed Russians to see the HUGE consumer goods market they had been denied. Ask Gorbie what told him the end was nigh and it wasn't Star Wars but the personal computer damn near every American home had at least one of.

The other nation's contribution to Cuba's economy is but a drop in the bucket compared to what the USofA's people will pour into their economy. What will turn the tide isn't deals made by Presidents- didn't in the USSR's case, but rather the people seeing what can be gained by abandoning the old system and adopting a new, freer society.

Many opined the regimes of the old Warsaw Pact wouldn't go quietly into history, but not even the Great Wizard of Trickle Down saw the complete collapse of East Germany- not by tanks and blood in the streets but with hand held pick axes and a few beers.

I guess some folks don't understand history or the power of the people to reform government peacefully... looking at the 'from my cold dead hands crowd'....

Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by LowDown

On the other hand, the changes that Cuba made over the last two years have been a good start. They loosened up the market for private exchange and abolished their duel currency system in which tourists get one currency and the citizens get another. This opens up the possiblity of trade with foreigners, but so far it's still illegal there to hire cubans without going through the government.

Yeah they have been doing some good things, like allowing cell phones and international calls, but at the heart of the matter is a communist dictatorship-dictators dont just give up power, and I dont see the Castro's passing on Cuba to someone who isn't a true believer.

Re: Cuba leaves talks on US ties insisting it won't make major changes to its system

Originally Posted by notquiteright

Cons have a piss poor concept of why we 'won' the cold war. Not because Reagan spent us into being the biggest debtor nation after being the biggest creditor nation but rather because looser import regulation allowed Russians to see the HUGE consumer goods market they had been denied. Ask Gorbie what told him the end was nigh and it wasn't Star Wars but the personal computer damn near every American home had at least one of.

The other nation's contribution to Cuba's economy is but a drop in the bucket compared to what the USofA's people will pour into their economy. What will turn the tide isn't deals made by Presidents- didn't in the USSR's case, but rather the people seeing what can be gained by abandoning the old system and adopting a new, freer society.

Many opined the regimes of the old Warsaw Pact wouldn't go quietly into history, but not even the Great Wizard of Trickle Down saw the complete collapse of East Germany- not by tanks and blood in the streets but with hand held pick axes and a few beers.

I guess some folks don't understand history or the power of the people to reform government peacefully... looking at the 'from my cold dead hands crowd'....