BEIT SHEMESH (December 25) - The organization that administers Orot school in Beit Shemesh issued an apology yesterday for publicly burning a copy of the New Testament a student received from Christian missionaries.

"Everybody knows we made a mistake," said Jordana Klein, spokeswoman for Sha'alei Torah. "We wouldn't do it again. We don't think it's the right thing to do."

The book-burning took place in the school courtyard the week before Hanukka, after a teacher in the boys' school found that one of his sixth-grade students had brought in a Hebrew copy of the New Testament.

The student received it from local missionaries who, according to Klein, have been active in proselytizing Beit Shemesh children.

"The teacher said: 'God sent it and He gave us the privilege, and we'll be able to burn the New Testament," said Ariel Lesnick, 11, who is in the class.

The teacher consulted with the principal, Rabbi Yair Bachar, said Klein. After receiving approval, the teacher - whose name Klein refused to divulge - took his class outside.

Then, Lesnick said, "We took a few sticks and we burnt it." The teacher emphasized that the book-burning was an anti-missionary activity and not an anti-Christian one, Lesnick said.

After receiving calls from angry parents, Bachar reconsidered the decision, which Klein described as "too hasty." He consulted rabbinic authorities on the issue and decided to appoint Rabbi David Spector - rabbi of the Givat Sharet neighborhood of Beit Shemesh - as a permanent rabbinic decision-maker for the school.

Spector ruled that missionary material should be burned, but it is the sole responsibility of the owner to burn it and the burning should take place in private.

"It was appropriate to burn the New Testament in private," wrote Spector in his ruling. He cited traditional and modern rabbis, including Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, who wrote that he had burned missionary texts, which he called "books of incitement and brainwashing." Such burning is permissible even if the texts include the name of God, Spector said.

The teacher said that if missionary material were found in the school again, it would be thrown into the garbage rather than publicly burned, said Lesnick.

The Education Ministry was not aware of the incident, said spokeswoman Orit Reuveni.

"In principle, the ministry condemns book-burning as an educational act," she said. "We are not aware of this incident, but we will investigate the matter in depth."

Wayne Firestone, director of the Anti-Defamation League here, said the apology is a positive reaction to the school's "inappropriate" decision.

"The issue of conversion obviously is a sensitive one, and school officials are entitled to make requirements to try to protect their students from inappropriate materials entering the school," he said.

"At the same time, the symbolic and actual imagery of burning any books is really an inappropriate reaction to any offensive material. We're encouraged to hear that the school has issued an apology, and we hope that from the apology, they can send a better message to their own students about tolerance of other religions."

Since the burning, Bachar has addressed teachers, parents, and students - particularly the sixth-grade class - about the issue. He emphasized that the school is not against Christians but against Christian attempts to convert Jews, said Klein. The school is also planning programs to increase tolerance, she said.

The student who brought the New Testament in is not the only one missionaries have targeted. After the book-burning, one of the other students in the class said missionaries came to his home and hung a crucifix behind the mezuza, said Lesnick. The family told the missionary they didn't want the crucifix and returned it, he said.

"We obviously have a missionary problem," said Klein. "We weren't even aware of how big a problem it is in our school."

The students that missionaries approach are generally among the native Israelis and immigrants who make up about 40 percent of the student body and tend to live in old Beit Shemesh, said Klein. That section is poorer than the newer section populated mostly by Anglos, who comprise 60 percent of the student body.

The Anglo-Israeli divide may have contributed to a difference in the approach to burning the New Testament. Lesnick, whose family immigrated from New Jersey four years ago, saw that distinction among the boys in his class. "The Israelis thought it was the right thing to do, but for the Americans, you're used to seeing [non-Jews] every day, and you don't do that to somebody that's just a little different than you," he said.

His father, Marc, also noted the difference nationality may have made in the decision. The teacher, he said, is an Israeli who has never left the country. But as an American, he said, "This is not the type of education I want my kids to have. In America, they let you practice your religion, you let them practice their religion, and you kind of coexist."

Book-burning may also invoke different images for Anglos than for Israelis. "The idea of burning in general in our minds has to do with Kristallnacht and the KKK and so on," he said.

But once he brought the issue to the attention of the school, said Marc Lesnick, it "very quickly took the matter really seriously and dealt with it properly afterward."

Lesnick found out about the burning when Ariel came home from school. "My son got home from school that night, and he actually said to me, 'Dad, you know what we did today? Well, we burned the New Testament.' I said, 'You're joking,'" said Lesnick.

He discussed it with the teacher, and a few days later Bachar came to his home to talk about the incident. Lesnick is glad that they have told him they would "definitely not do this again."

Rev. Ray Lockhart, director of the Jerusalem-based Israel Trust of the Anglican Church, said burning the New Testament so publicly was "going over the top somewhat." Lockhart, whose organization focuses on ministry to the Jews, added that it's preferable to get a signed statement from parents before giving Christian scriptures to a minor.

"Clearly no Jewish person would want to see the Tanah being burnt, and would feel that whoever did it, it was an affront to their beliefs," he said.

But the school's apology, said Lockhart, mitigates the offense. "I think it shows that it's sometimes good to have second thoughts, and to recognize that we can all make mistakes in the way we make a response off the cuff without really thinking through all the implications."

A Jew complaining to a newspaper because they used a Christian reference in an article is not putting gun to someone's head, it's complaining and trying to force others not to use what Jews find offensive.

I also note, your total inability to use any logic in an argument, but rather stubbornly deny everything like a donkey. You have a different culture alright :-)

Great. Accusing me of what you have been doing all along. Through out the argument you went on a bunch of irrelevant tangents.. Everything from brighton beach to atheist Jews somehow pushing for a certain Jewish religious agenda? You can put 2 and 2 together, but somewhow you don't get 4.

Another example of your incorrect generalizations. Muslim republics were the first ones from where the Jews ran away. Let alone Chechnya, for example.

That's the last decade. I am talking about even before that. Through the last decade the region is going through turmoil because of the saudi money that are coming in to spread wahhabism. As for Chechnya.. Interestingly, you have Jewish human rights people trying to protect Chechens (which angers many russians, and myself as well). Then you have Maskhadov and Basayev spewing all kinds of anti semitic material. And then you have some russian spewing anti semitic material while claiming that Jews are the ones causing the Chechen conflict "making" muslims and christians fight each other. As for Jews running from Chechnya, they ran with the russians, when Chechens began to conduct their genocide against non chechens. You know this. Or are you going to claim that Chechens have legitimate beef with Jews and that's why the ran, while Russians were left alone to live in peace? Is this your claim?

I thought about replying to all your "points", but then changed my mind after realization that you aren't able to respond in any logical way or acknowledge anything even totally obvious.

I do respond to all the points. You don't.. I already asked you twice if you believed the protocols of Zion to be true or not. This is the third time. You are too ignorant for someone from the Soviet Union, but then "refugees" didn't need any brain to emigrate.

There is no way for me to become a Jew. At the essential heart of the matter, then, there is no way for me ever truly to be equal in the eyes of God.

How can that be true? Its not. The opposite is true. According to Christianity, non Christians are not equals in the eyes of God. One absolutely has to become a Christians in order to achieve salvation. Judaism how ever doesn't emphasize the afterlife, etc. What we do here on earch is what's really important. As for "chosen", you have a common misconception.

"Chosen" doesn't mean "privileged" or "entitled." It refers to a unique covenant that you have with G-d. This is responsibility. For example. Gentiles have to follow the 10 commandments, while Jews had to follow something like 600+ (half of which had to do with the Temple that was destroyed and therefore can't be excersised any longer).

You are dense. He COMPLAINED. He acted to enforce his view of how it should be done. And in the polically-correct atmosphere of today, they will feel compelled to accomodate the reader.

I am not going to speculate as to how long you are in USA. But obviously you are still not used to democracy. When people have suggestions they make their voice heard. If you want to term it "complaining" that's fine. I guess the usage would be like this (according to you) the majority of electorate votes "complained" against Gore, and Bush was elected.

I suggest that you drop the Odessa habit of playing dumb. It may have worked there.

Actually, I thought you were the one playing dumb. But the fact that you have insulted me a number of times on this thread proves that facts are actually getting to you.

I don't remember ever wondering about definition what's a Jew, or whether "Elders of Zion" is a forgery. Those are just irrelevant questions to me. My opinion on those questions is pretty much the common one.

You are just acting out your prejudices asking those dumb questions. I simply don't care.

I don't remember ever wondering about definition what's a Jew, or whether "Elders of Zion" is a forgery. Those are just irrelevant questions to me. My opinion on those questions is pretty much the common one.

I think that question is very relavant. And the fact that you won't answer it, makes it even more relevant.

You are just acting out your prejudices asking those dumb questions. I simply don't care.

Have the nerve accusing me of going on tangentials, while engaging in a typical Odessa bazaar conversation.

You have tried to distort and misrepresent the events in the article, and then have been playing dumb on the subject of a letter where a Jew in no uncertain terms compares using Christian references to a "smack in the face", representing it as an innocent "suggestion".

Hey, maybe in the "Russian" mafia gang you are running with, it's just a suggestion, with a gun to the head coming much later. LOL!

It existed BEFORE. Just like their anti-semitism did. And from reading their web sites, I hope you get an idea of the extent of their dislike for the Jews.

Chechens? Maybe. The rest of muslim republics? Nope. I have friends from there, I have relatives there.. Their brand of Islam has nothing to do with wahhabism which is becoming more and more popular throughout the last decade. As for Kavkaz, yea, its your regular jihad site with a twist. They probably agree with you on quite a few things.

Uh huh. So Ukranians were selectively starved ,while Jews living among them were secretly fed?

What I was trying to ascertain from my inquiry was what exactly was taught during the 80's in Ukraine about the Holodomor. Apparently the answer is zip, zilch, nada.

Free Republic is not the place for a Holodomor 101.

You're lucky. You live in Bklyn & have access to good libraries. You're lacking background information. A good start is:... Conquest, Robert, "The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror -- Famine". It's a bit dry, but a good start. If you don't wish to read then I would suggest the video, "Harvest of Dispair."

You have tried to distort and misrepresent the events in the article, and then have been playing dumb on the subject of a letter where a Jew in no uncertain terms compares using Christian references to a "smack in the face", representing it as an innocent "suggestion".

Yea. He suggested. What's the difference between what he did and a suggestion then?

Right. Didn't one of your merited relatives kill Cosby's son? You work in a russian food store for $3 an hour, or what?

Actually that was a Ukrainian "refugee" like yourself, with the exception that that was a non-Jew. Don't tell me that there is no "Russian" gangs comprised from Odessa "refugees". There even was a movie about it, which sucked. And the whole America knows about "Russian" mafia from Brighton Beach.

You must be quite isolated in your "refugee" community not to know that there are quite a few professionals or students coming from Russia, who are much smarter than your usual Odessa chmo in leather jacket and Adidas pants. Does it hurt? LOL!

What I was trying to ascertain from my inquiry was what exactly was taught during the 80's in Ukraine about the Holodomor. Apparently the answer is zip, zilch, nada.

Uh, I know very well of what happened. That's not the argument. You are implying that magically only Ukranians died. And Jews who lived in ukraine (look up "Pale" in your encyclopedia - it will tell you why so many Jews lived in Ukraine) somehow didn't starve?

Actually that was a Ukrainian "refugee" like yourself, with the exception that that was a non-Jew.

Hahah.. Exactly. He wasn't Jewish. So he is not a Jewish refugee.

Don't tell me that there is no "Russian" gangs comprised from Odessa "refugees". There even was a movie about it, which sucked. And the whole America knows about "Russian" mafia from Brighton Beach.

Point being? There are russian gangs from your city as well, and? Misha "Yaponcik" - vor v zakone was busted not too far from my house in '96.. He is not Jewish...

You must be quite isolated in your "refugee" community not to know that there are quite a few professionals or students coming from Russia, who are much smarter than your usual Odessa chmo in leather jacket and Adidas pants. Does it hurt? LOL!

Why would your anti semitic rhetoric hurt me? I worked with very smart and bright people from Piter who came here on H1. Very nice and bright people. Not something I could say for you, though.

It refers to a unique covenant that you have with G-d. This is responsibility. For example. Gentiles have to follow the 10 commandments, while Jews had to follow something like 600+ (half of which had to do with the Temple that was destroyed and therefore can't be excersised any longer).

I understand all of that. At heart, it's still a two-tiered view of humanity with an intransigent exclusivity. Jews still are an Elect and there is no changing the fact I can never be privy to that Covenant regardless my manifesting a genuine obedience thereto out of enthusiasm, longing or love.

(This is why Christ refers to himself as the New Covenant into which any man may choose to obligate himself and take on the responsibility of maximum obedience to God.)

I don't much care what your Baptist friend or the apostate Catholic had to say. Both are in error, plain and simple.

I have some Jewish friends who have no problems eating non-Kosher food, don't keep the Sabbath and tell me abortion is okay. Just because they've decided they can believe thus and still be "Jewish" doesn't tempt me for one moment into believing their Personal Interpretations of Judaism they've tailored to fit their own Personal Faith is anything like obedience to Judaism.

Like I said ... I'm one for primary sources and seek the most objective voice I can find using a divining rod tuned to humility, charity and good cheer. Those seem to be the folks who've the firmest grasp on enduring truth, IMHO.

The rest of muslim republics? Nope. I have friends from there, I have relatives there.. Their brand of Islam has nothing to do with wahhabism which is becoming more and more popular throughout the last decade.

I'd doubt the objectivity of your relatives. I know non-Jews from there who hated it in Russia and they fled from maraudering locals in Central Asia, because in their view the people are more cold. It's just different culture.

You tell me that all the pogroms in Central Asia came out of nowhere, I say the feelings of hostility existed before. You rely on the word of your relatives, and I tell you they aren't objective.

I've known many Jews who lived in Russia and would never go to live in Central Asia. They have their own community in Russia. Take the news about the crash of a Novosibirsk-bound flight. There are regular flights that are getting filled with people who shuttle between Israel and Novosibirsk. Just because your picture of the world is limited, doesn't mean that you are right.

I understand all of that. At heart, it's still a two-tiered view of humanity with an intransigent exclusivity. Jews still are an Elect and there is no changing the fact I can never be privy to that Covenant regardless my manifesting a genuine obedience thereto out of enthusiasm, longing or love.

Dude. You are confused. You can convert if being Jewish is so important to you.

You tell me that all the pogroms in Central Asia came out of nowhere, I say the feelings of hostility existed before. You rely on the word of your relatives, and I tell you they aren't objective.

I am talking about soviet times. You are talking about after the collapse of USSR. I've known many Jews who lived in Russia and would never go to live in Central Asia. They have their own community in Russia.

Right, because you tend to stay in the environment you are used to. My friend is from Uzbekistan, and he is not a Buherian Jew, he is Ashkenazi like me. He said that they had a Jew in the main hospital in Tashkent giving circumcision to those who wanted them, in the open.

Take the news about the crash of a Novosibirsk-bound flight. There are regular flights that are getting filled with people who shuttle between Israel and Novosibirsk. Just because your picture of the world is limited, doesn't mean that you are right.

What does this have to do with anything? I have an aunt in Bryansk, so? You are trying to shock me with the fact that there are still some Jews left in Russia?

I don't believe that your statement is 100% accurate. Judaism is indeed a religion that anyone can convert too, but being Hebrew is a whole other ball game. I believe that the old testament refers to the tribe of Israel being the chosen... not just the Jewish. And I know that even in modern times there are families that have more of claim then others... that trace their lineage. Any rabbis out there who can answer this?

I am talking about soviet times. You are talking about after the collapse of USSR.

Right, everything magically changed aftter the collapse, and people learned to hate, LOL!

Right, because you tend to stay in the environment you are used to. My friend is from Uzbekistan, and he is not a Buherian Jew, he is Ashkenazi like me. He said that they had a Jew in the main hospital in Tashkent giving circumcision to those who wanted them, in the open.

I should ask all the Jews I've known in Russia, whether they are circumsized and HOW they managed to get that. LOL!

What does this have to do with anything? I have an aunt in Bryansk, so? You are trying to shock me with the fact that there are still some Jews left in Russia?

There wouldn't be a regular flight from Israel to Bryansk, would there be? Since you are being slow, there is a large Jewish community in Novosibirsk and it's not "still left", there is a regular flight, get it?

Ask those Jews in Novosibirsk, what they think about the idea of living in Tashkent.

Actually I do. Oh man.. unbelievable... I just read about that last week... Anyways.. This profile is wrong.. He is a few years older. When I was in 7th grade they put him in my class in the middle of year... He was 2-3 years older then the rest of the class, that I remember for sure. anyways, he was a bad kid... He used to terrorize russians (thank God he never touched me, you would not want to be on the receiving end of his wrath).. He was crazy. He stuck one kid with a niddle. He had beef with with some kid one day, whose brother was a member of Latin Kings (hispanic gang here in the city), anyway, after school, some guy whose name Nick (I think he was italian) came by.. He wasn't big or anything, but he had a talk with those hispanic kids.. I don't know what he said, but it made quite an impression. They tried to get all chummy with him afterwards. Anyways, he got kicked out. Then I saw him a few years later by my high school trying to mug some russians, he asked me for a cig and said hello, and that's about it. I don't know why they say he is 22.. Either that's an old profile, or he fudged the date of his birth in order to get off some offense as a juvenile.. He also has an older brother who is known as "Raspizdai".. He is in the mob too. Last thing I heard he owned a "security" firm.. As for the boxer. The story went something like this. Either Nathan or one of his friends got into a confrontation with one of the musicians at the restaraunt Paradise (right next to my house).. The boxer was a bouncer there and he kicked them out.. Then they saw him in some body shop, and confronted him.. They probably didn't know that he was a boxer and proved to be too much to handle.. So they shot him, drove him to the NJ residence of one of their friends, where he begged to be taken to the hospital. And as Nathan's profile states, they broke his neck.. Anyways, there are a few of these characters in brooklyn.. I am not going to mention anything else becuase they are still out there :)

Thanks for the link.. as for the point you were trying to make.. There are plenty of russian criminals in russia, and there is sizable amount of them in brooklyn (I give one of them 2 years to live/be out of jail, his nick name is "Pe....'", and he has a big tattoo of a cross on his chest (and yea, he is from odessa, but the cross speaks for itself). So posting random profiles of Jewish criminals proves rather nothing.

Right, everything magically changed aftter the collapse, and people learned to hate, LOL!

It wasn't organized by foreign $$$ and mullahs as it is now.

I should ask all the Jews I've known in Russia, whether they are circumsized and HOW they managed to get that. LOL!

Now you are being stupid.. Being able to go to someone's house who does it, and having an official in the city's main hospital who does it are 2 different things.

There wouldn't be a regular flight from Israel to Bryansk, would there be? Since you are being slow, there is a large Jewish community in Novosibirsk and it's not "still left", there is a regular flight, get it?

You have a twisted logic. Bryansk is not that big first of all to have many international flights. Is there a flight from let's say Haifa to Novosibirsk? Jerusalem to Novosibirsk? Tel-Aviv to Okhotsk?

Ask those Jews in Novosibirsk, what they think about the idea of living in Tashkent.

How would they know? They never lived there.. What do you think of living in Luxumburg?

That's a funny story. Wasn't Odessa famous for its gangsters? Have you heard the expression "Rostov-Papa, Odessa-Mama"?

Odessa Mama? Sure. Odessa was famous for a lot of things. Humour, feisty girls, etc. Nothing funny about that story btw.. He was truly an evil person.. Not just a criminal who was out there to get some $$$.. He was truly sadistic.. I just called up my friend who went to my school, sent her the link, you should've heard her reaction :). Comes out that some kid punched her in the face in jr HS, and Nathan beat him up for that... What a gentleman ;). Thank G-d he is off the streets though. That P.....' guy whose name I am not going to mention. Anyway, his 2 friends followed some kid from school and robbed his apartment. Came out that the guy's grandfather was some top guy in the russian mafia. They were given one week to live New York state. From what i heard they went to Nevada. There are plenty of stories.

That's a wild neighborhood you have there. I guess I'd have to go to San Francisco's Richmond district to have something remotly similar. And I don't think they are THAT bad there.

Brooklyn is Brooklyn. That's what it famous for.. being a ghetto.. Russian crime is usually insurance fraud and extortion.. Violent felonies are very rare, and are done by novie russkie. Go to the black part of town if you want to see some real action ;)

Those "Russian" mafiosi are really nasty, I hear. Growing up in Odessa must have screwed many people up.

Regarding "tolerance" in Central Asia, they just don't give a shit about anything. I personally saw people playing cards for money at the frontyard of the Ministry of Education in one of the republics, with "ministers" not payig attention.

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