Full English translation of the transcript of Mir Hossein Mousavi's interview
with Kaleme website (with special thanks to
KHORDAAD88 for translation)

Mir Hossein Mousavi

* Three weeks has passed since the 22nd of Bahman rally and there have been lots
of discussions and comments regarding this rally, what is opinion your about
this event?

It is not the first time that the ceremonies of 22nd of Bahman have been held in
our country. These ceremonies are in remembrance of rallies in 1979 [and have
taken place] in different occasions with more than a million people. Every year
people who admire this revolution participate in these ceremonies where
traditional institutions such as Mosques or religious assemblies play an
important role in organizing the rally. Usually the ceremonies in each year is
influenced by important events of the year and the political atmosphere [in the
country] . 10th presidential election and the events that followed it influenced
this year's rally. The government mobilized [large number of people] public
employees, using trains and buses from all across the country by spending large
sums of money. This was all to neutralize the impact of presence of green
movement.

* How was this year's rally different from previous years?

The differences were due to the events that occurred after the election.
Considering the formation of the green movement this year, the rally was
significantly affected by how the movement would [choose to] participate in it.
In no other years so many police, military and security forces were deployed in
the streets. The violent and savage confrontation particularly vivid in
Sadeghiyeh Sq and other locations was unprecedented. In previous years people
participated in the rally with any form or dress and shouted any slogan they
desired. But this year violent security forces could not bear to see a green
shirt worn by a young person or green beads carried by a clergy. I doubt people
would easily forget these confrontations.

* In your opinion what was the number of green movement supporters that attended
the rallies?

It is hard to come up with an accurate number. But [we] can make estimates based
on some observations. One is comparing the weight of the crowd who participated
in 25th of Khordaad rally with 22nd of Bahman rally. Another observation is the
empty spaces in the Azadi square during the speech and comparing it with
previous years that the rallies where more crowded. No explanation has been
offered as why the Azadi square was not filed and why the cameras only covered
certain areas close to the podium. To hear that people worried about the grass
and environment is comical especially for people who had seen attendance of
people in the square in previous years. If the system cared to estimate the
population weight of green movement, they would not stop them from showing their
identities. But [their] fear that this identity is revealed took away a
historical opportunity. This is more harmful to the system than the green
movement. It is obvious that concealing reality does not eliminate it. And on
this specific issue I have no doubt that this widespread confrontation will only
spread this identity. In a discussion I had with Mr. Karoubi we decided to
repeat our request for permission to hold a rally according to the Article 27 of
the Constitution. The level of participation in [such a rally] will put an end
to all rumors. We believe that if the green movement as well as other reformist
parties, Great Marjaas and other figures had not invited people, this year [we]
would have seen a low participation such that the course of the rally would have
been in the same shape as Azadi Square during the speech.

* It has been said that bribes and threats played a role in organizing the
rallies, and that some have attended these rallies for mundane reasons.

I prefer the term: 'engineered' rallies. I am against slandering those who
disagree with the messages of the Green Movement. Our arrangement was not, and
will never be to view as immoral the actions of those with different opinions.
We are all fellow countrymen. Aside from a few murderers and mobsters, we are
all brothers and sisters. Even the security forces and the military are our
brothers, and we know that they are forced to yield to violence. Of course, I
condemn the expense of hefty sums along with the abuse of government facilities
and inducing government employees with their job security to organize
gatherings. I remember that during wartime, it was a big hassle for defense
organizations to rent trucks for the transportation of troops until Imam
[Khomeini] issued permission to use personal trucks and vehicles with at the
assurance that the government would pay for all damages. But for the latest
rally, [an enormous number] of buses and even trains was used by the military
and by security to transport people. Such engineering of the gatherings is not
only nothing to be proud of, it also resembles the despotic mentalities of the
pre-revolution governments. During the Shah's time as well, if a government
employee failed to attend a pro-regime rally, he or she would have problems at
work. After the 1978 revolution, our system has taken pride in the people taking
to the streets themselves. As such, we can only truly take pride in the rallies
of June 15 [only three days after the controversial election of June 12, 2009]
and those that followed; not in artificially-engineered rallies that may have
been instigated by economic obligation, by expenditure, or by a terrifying
environment.

* Do you and Messrs Karoubi and Khatami consult on the decisions and positions
taken?

I am always in touch with these honorable men. With extensive detainments, I
feel even stronger about the necessity of direct communication and, thank God,
there is good coordination on this front. Although it is for the benefit of the
country that, instead of filling prisons, [officials] support the creation of a
powerful organizational body that disagrees with the current destructive
policies in place but is still within the framework of the system. I think the
only way to stop the leaders of social and political activities from leaving the
country is through the [support of such a body]. However, as State TV deviates
more and more [from the path that leads towards desirable solutions] and
persists in one-sided views, closures of newspapers and detainments of
journalists, it seems that establishing a body to gather the actual figures and
align things with the Constitution is not going to happen. I still believe [in]
the importance of the motto "Every Citizen; One Media", along with increased
usage of social networks to raise awareness. I believe that there is no
alternative for such social networkds. Although, I should I add that these
difficult conditions have had some benefits as well, alongside all the damage.
Among them is the development of self-reliance and the expansion of the Green
Movement to countless other social networks. In this regard, the use of virtual
space was miraculous. [The web] has established itself as a stable and
trustworthy structure that, in connecting people and networks, brings them
together to collaborate. It is very similar to traditional bazaars where
countless stores and booths of varying size are connected, along with mosques
and tea houses, to produce an image of one coherent structure, despite the
differences in every unit. What is interesting is that on one side of the bazaar
you can have very different appetites, opinions, and capital flowing from the
other sides, but this variety never constrains its totality or its concept of
unity. Instead, [this variety] acts as a point of strength.

* The movements in the street have been met with extreme violence. We saw an
instance of this during the 22 Bahman rally in Sadeghiye Circle. Are there other
paths we can follow to achieve the very legitimate goals of the Green Movement?

This question is being asked a lot. Our response is that the Green Movement
should not forget its goals, just as it should not become a mundane and passive
task that needs no strategy. The Green Movement's goal from the very beginning
has been to reform the administration within the current constitutional
framework. The color green has connected us all. The minimum demand that could
surely bring a majority together was a call for the unequivocal execution of the
Constitution. Of course, there were those who wanted to move beyond this demand,
but the Green Movement has never deviated from this common goal and, God
willing, will never do so in the future. I have repeatedly spoken about the
importance of sticking to this demand and, as a member of the Green Movement,
have stressed its conservation. We must consider the showings in the streets to
be a method with which the Green Movement has attempted to present its goals and
intentions to the whole nation and the international community. But, this has
not been the only method. Tens of millions of Iranians have objections to the
government's actions to censor, constriction of freedom, oppression, foreign
policies that are whimsical and adventurous, destructive economic policies, and
spreading of lies and corruption. [The people] demand changes that will allow
them to decide their own destiny. They want to change the destiny forced upon
them by incompetent officials.

security forces facing protesters at Sadeghiye square in Tehran on February 11

Our nation wants to avoid falling behind in tough regional and international
competition. Our nation wants to interact with the international community - not
fight it or be hostile towards it - and follow foreign policies that promote
growth. Out nation does not want to bury its own agricultural and industrial
production under a sea of imported goods, [which has grown] under the careless
and irresponsible watch of the [current] government. Our nation does not want to
put the Revolutionary Guards and other semi-governmental organizations in charge
of the majority of the country's projects and economic activities under the
privatization banner. Our nation wants to deal with unemployment and poverty as
a religious, Islamic, and national duty. The deceptive mass advertising effort
by the government should not hide the true poverty, unemployment, and inflation
affecting the nation. Our nation does not want its teachers and workers to be
attacked when asking for their wages, or its women to be attacked while trying
to abolish discrimination. Our nation wants the government to allow all voices
in society to be heard through the public media. It does not want the media to
be monopolized by unjust people who publish libel. The majority of people here
like one another. They do not want to be divided into the Party of God and the
Party of Devil, nor into humans on one side and dirt and animals on the other.

Our nation does not want its mail, email, SMS, and calls to be under
surveillance. Our nation is well-informed and courageous and does not appreciate
the effort of a select few to constrict its freedoms and limit its
constitutional rights while hypocritically claiming that all of these intrusions
are [actually] desired by the nation. With whatever means possible, the Green
Movement must inform the whole nation and members of all sects and groups, that
the demands of the nation are the demands of the Green Movement. The Green
Movement must publicize these demands.

These demands are completely Islamic, constitutional, and consistent with
religious democracy. They are not anti-religious and, as such, execution, murder
or imprisonment cannot be justified [as a means of dealing with them]. Nor are
the demands anti-establishment or against the nation. Since they are
[legitimate], the people support them. The demand for freedom, human rights, the
abolishment of discrimination and tolerance of different opinions shown on
street and in the media is not a crime. On the contrary, denying the expression
of these demands is a sign of tyranny and a distortion of the ideals of the
Islamic Revolution, which succeeded under the slogan of "Independence, Freedom,
Islamic Republic".

In response to your question, I have to say that the basis for any fundamental
change in the direction of reform is to spread awareness. Spreading the seed of
awareness within all levels of society is not going to happen with
demonstrations alone. However, social gathering is a civil right as well as one
of the people's methods to reach their political, social and cultural ideals.
The important point here is that any supporter of the Green Movement [should
find] a way to spread awareness, especially among the poor (oppressed). This
should be done on the basis of the saying: "Every Citizen; One Media". However,
we must be humble. The goal is not to necessarily see the green supporters in
charge in the end. There is no "I" in Green and, hence, no place for
self-interest. In this way, we will use the streets [to spread awareness]
peacefully and lawfully as well as other legal means. As a companion of the
Green Movement, I would like to emphasize again that the most effective way to
reach victory is to spread national awareness. We want to attain our ideals with
the people and by means of the people.

* How do you see the role of the establishment, the system and other parties
with regards to these changes?

The Green Movement has stood firm in its civil demands. The more people's
awareness of their rights increases, the bigger will be the force behind those
demands. This recognition will change people's lives and that change is the
nation's capital for greater political and social transformation. As a humble
member of the Green Movement, I would like to point out to its supporters that
our goal is change within our establishment. However, this change does not have
to be achieved by anyone specific. We have to remember this ethical principal:
to attest righteousness, decency and beauty whether or not it is achieved by us.
As a result, although we will stand firm for our demands, it is less costly if
the establishment follows the solutions offered by the people and the National
Covenant (the Constitution). I would like to state clearly that any actions by
the government to adjudicate the rights of people and to fully uphold the
Constitution will not be seen as a sign of weakness by us. We will not portray
these actions as insignificant. On the contrary, they will be a symbol of the
power of the Islamic Republic. We would like to see all segments of the
establishment pledge free, competitive and non-selective elections.

We would like to see the establishment free political prisoners and work on
political development as well as the development of the culture of freedom. We
would like to see the establishment encourage diversity within media and protect
its freedom. I would like to state clearly that even if the publishing of
"Kaleme Sabz" (Mousavi's newspaper) and "Etemad Melli" (the newspaper of the
Etemad Melli Party, whose chairman is Mehdi Karoubi) is harmful, [these
newspapers] are less damaging than non-national and foreign media. I know that
they [the establishment]will not accept this; or at least they will not accept
this in the current situation.

However I say that having one or more radio and TV channels for the green
movement, will only strengthen the system and help national unity. I personally
am worried that these current limitations will force us to fall behind lower
ranking countries in the region. I don't see another way to protect our nation
against the waves that other countries will send towards us, countries which are
thinking of their own self-interest. It is absurd to think that we can control
these waves by hacking, filtering and jamming satellite signals.

Either way, if the ruling establishment and the different political factions are
realistic, they must know that the green movement was present for 22 Bahman.
And, [they must know that] a good future for the country can only be secured by
creating unity between people and varying factions of society, and not by
calling a significant portion of society "dirt and dust", "cows and lambs" and
"an insignificant, limited group". The life of our prophets and imams show that
at no time did they curse or abuse those who opposed their religion. They had a
high regard for human dignity, and instead of judging individuals, they always
showed great mercy and kindness, in order to show the path of truth. Our people
cannot tolerate anti-religious actions being carried out in the name of
religion. In the Koran, when the prophet and his followers are mentioned, they
are described as being kind and strong in the face of enemies. For certain, both
in the time of the prophet and after, not all Muslims had the same degree of
faith. Our people greatly understand the different between piety and the seeking
of power in the guise of pious clothing. This [current] ruling establishment is
a clique which strives to rob the very meaning of being Iranian and national
solidarity. And this is one of gravest dangers we face today. Our weapon against
such devious actions is uniting around our common national and religious
aspirations, and relying on those visions which will result in a developed,
peace-seeking Iran, throughout the country and throughout the world. It is in
such a circumstance that we can hope that just like the years of the holy war
[Iran-Iraq war] the entire nation will unite in the face of danger. The nation
is defined as all the groups, all ethnicities, all cultures and all differing
factions. Those interested in the green movement take pride in being Iranian,
and all the symbols that come with that, and thus, it is quite obvious that we
are very suspicious about the changing of the color of our flag, and we see this
[this changing of the color] as a clear sign of the lack of concern of this
current ruling establishment for our national interests, values, and culture.

* In your 17th statement, you gave a number of solutions for solving this
current crisis. Do you have any other suggestions besides the ones you've given
already?

A very important aspect of the 17th statement is that the very acceptance of the
existence of a crisis is a part of its solution. At the same time, I do not
believe there are any sudden, abrupt solutions out of this current crisis. For
example, we cannot engineer an orchestrated demonstration and fool ourselves
into believing that everything is over. The important thing is that we now take
steps to ensure that the crisis will be solved in the future. Just imagine if
today, it was announced that all political prisoners will be freed. Before any
faction or group, I'm certain that the entire nation will be glad to hear this
news. Or, another action that can work to better this environment of fear, is
kindness towards the people who are simply demanding their rights.

We have seen the effect of calling people dirt and dust [as Ahmadinejad referred
in his speech two days after the election]. Let's speak with the people
respectfully for once. In some situations, simply refraining from some
inappropriate actions can help improve the national atmosphere. An example is
the brutal treatment of people in Sadeghieh square on 22 Bahman [or 11 February,
at the anniversary of the revolution] and the attacks on people and some
families of martyrs and their children. Who can claim that such shameful actions
could help the establishment [in some way?] What is more beneficial in solving
the current crisis: Mousavi and Khatami joining the ranks of people [in the
rally] and showing their unity [with them] in practice or the violent forces
pursuing the strategy of "victory by terror" using sticks, knives and chains?
Can the government find a solution by terrorizing people? If using such methods
for victory was an achievement, then neither we nor anyone else in the world
would be able to condemn Saddam's attack on Halabja. We wouldn't have said that
he has no mercy, even though it was his own people that he decimated. The
footage recently released of the attack on the [Tehran] University dormitories
show how partisan attitudes can lead to merciless brutality.

To those who are beating up the students, the children of this nation are even
less than animals. Even more devastating is the fact that the officials from all
levels of the power hierarchy claim that they do not know who is responsible for
these attacks. This is an even worse insult to the intelligence of the students
and people. What is interesting about this footage is that even among the
security forces, there are some who ask others not to beat the students.

I just wish that the country's police and security forces saw strength in
providing a secure environment for all Iranians, irrespective of their beliefs,
and not in suppression and violence. Why was it necessary to pollute Sadeqiyeh
Square with pepper gas and other chemical pollutants?

All these actions will stray us farther away from rational solutions out of this
crisis. If this crisis is not resolved, the legitimately of the ruling
establishment will plummet even faster. The green movement, under any
circumstances, must emphasize free and fair elections, elections which are not
preceded by a purging process. Just like the freedom of the press, freedom of
all political prisoners and putting an end to this fearful security environment
are all very important, and we must not only let the ruling establishment, but
all the people of our country hear of these solutions.

* There are lots of discussions about the relationship between the green
movement and elite social groups [professors, students, artists, etc]. What is
your opinion?

The green movement is a movement that was born out of a number of very important
differing groups within society and it is through the interaction it has had
with these groups that it has been able to grow. In this regard, for example, I
can refer to the letter written by 116 professors at Tarbiat Modarress
University. This university is a child of the revolution, and I, as one of those
who served the country in the early days of the revolution, had a role in its
formation.

Everyone knows that this university does not have an undergraduate level and
average age of the student is higher than other universities. Many staff and
students of that university were very active in the first years of the
Revolution. Statement of 116 professors of this university along with the
similar statements from other academicians and Islamic Associations of other
universities show that how much the Movement is alive and serious across the
universities. I would like to say that you can see the same trend in physicians,
teachers, engineers, laborers, women activists, athletes and artists and other
major sects. A clear and unbiased look at the Fajr Festivals demonstrates where
the artists stand as an effective sect of the society. It is said that about
thousand music clips and videos were made about the Green Movement after the
election. Many cartoons, posters and paintings as well as other art works were
created in that period. This movement is unique in our cultural history and
possibly in world cultures. I believe the powerful connection of the Green
Movement with these major sects is the best reason to be hopeful for reaching
the ideals of the Movement in the future of our country. Why shouldn't we be
hopeful when millions of students in our country is behind the Green Movement?

* How about clerics?

There is a significant number of faithful, aware and resistant clerics present
within the green movement. Greens must know that stands of a few spiteful and
radical clerics are not the opinion of the whole society of the jurists and the
clergy. Our noble clergy never call people with slanderous words. They would
never support murders, bloodshed, and jailing the innocent. Our noble clergy
knows well what Islam says about slanders, tortures, desecrating dignities of
others and invading their privacies. Our real clergy can identify [grand]
expediencies concerning our national and Islamic resources from [short-sighted]
partisan benefits. Our clergy accompanies the universities and is in unity with
students and faculty. They understand the importance of this union. We view the
clerics in the green movement as a very important supply of potentials and
support [for the movement.] Their presence in the green movement is connected to
the survival of the movement concerning the various methods and means to accuse
the green movement of secular ties and connections to foreign governments.

For this reason, I must tell everyone who has joined the green movement with
hopes of a better Iran in the future that we must be careful not to fall for the
propaganda that wants the clergy to lose their trust in the green movement.
Let's not forget the 'Carnivals of month Ahsoura' during 1998 and other similar
plots. Opponents of the green movement if not all, but some of them, do not have
any sense of decency and morality.

* What is your suggestion regarding the ceremonies of the last Wednesday of the
year?

The ceremonies of this day commemorate the victory of light over darkness, but
the supporters of the green path movement, even though they have extreme respect
for religious and national symbols and ceremonies, do not want these ceremonies
to be a venue for harassing people. We should especially keep in mind that the
movement's opponents may have plans for trying to defame the green movement, as
they have tried before. I am sure that the greens will not take part in any
unconventional activities or vandalizing. Causing explosions or fires is not in
line [consistent] with the green movement's attitudes, which has been focused on
non-violent activities. Being green is not only determined by your clothes or
symbols. Being green is a matter of behavior and morals. If we remember this
important principle and the members of the green movement remind each other of
it, we can definitely prevent the damage that may be caused by the actions of a
few dressed in green.

* And the last word?

I wish that someday the situation in our country will be such that all of the
posters, paintings, video clips, and other works of art that have been created
in the last year could be exhibited without censorship. I know that, hopefully
[if God is willing], with hope and the steady progress of the green movement, we
shall witness such an exhibition some day, one which expresses our emotions,
aspirations, and concern as a nation.