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BTW I would get on them about posting your picture on the city website. Make it one with a dog in it.

Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

Because I have no life, I tried looking up your city council rules. There does not seem to be anything more than a basic outline given by the state. In my reading this is apparently very common. In the outline it says that the mayor will preside over the meeting and therefore may well be with their rights to cut off debate. Presumably being able to restore order by use of the police would be acceptable. I think because of lack of rules your lawsuit will be doomed. if you use a system similar to Roberts rules for order, then debate can be cutoff with a supermajority vote. You said there was a vote, but not how many voted in favor.

If there are not city council rules in place, I suggest you get about passing some. If there are you should learn them backwards and forwards as this will be your strength. I would also suggest you learn to be a little more subtle in how you attack your opponents. Wrap your insults into proposals to compel them to listen, make them feel stupid rather than just saying so. It will limit their ability to cut you off. As soon as you go into a personal attack, they can say your being disruptive and cut you off.

We are governed by state law - look up slc.leg.WA.gov - go to Office of the code reviser - title 35A - we are a
code city as are most of the cities in this state

There was no disorder - only my criticism of their previous vote -

It's obvious from your posts that you are somewhat permissive - I never have been & it's worked well for me -
trying to talk out of both sides of my mouth has never been my thing - being consistent in my beliefs & never
lying has worked really well for me .

We are governed by state law - look up slc.leg.WA.gov - go to Office of the code reviser - title 35A - we are a
code city as are most of the cities in this state

There was no disorder - only my criticism of their previous vote -

It's obvious from your posts that you are somewhat permissive - I never have been & it's worked well for me -
trying to talk out of both sides of my mouth has never been my thing - being consistent in my beliefs & never
lying has worked really well for me .

Marv --If you read Roberts, debate is ended when the votes are called for. You said there had been a vote on the motion before the board, therefore any statement regarding the vote is a continuation of the debate and therefore is out of order.

To reopen a debate on a matter, post a vote, the proper motion is for reconsideration of the vote. It is then proper to debate the reconsideration.

Marv --If you read Roberts, debate is ended when the votes are called for. You said there had been a vote on the motion before the board, therefore any statement regarding the vote is a continuation of the debate and therefore is out of order.

To reopen a debate on a matter, post a vote, the proper motion is for reconsideration of the vote. It is then proper to debate the reconsideration.
Vituperation and personal attacks are never in order.

The OP was made for those with common sense. Some will get something from the post, most will not -
There was no motion on the floor, the 3 CM's who voted to end debate were 3 of the 4 who would not 2nd
a motion I had made at a previous meeting to use Robert's Rules to conduct our meetings.

As for your statement that I have highlighted - it don't take long on this forum to figure out who are the
folks who have placed our country where it is today. I was just pointing out where I thought the council
majority had made some mistakes. The Mayor objects to that because she is the one who manipulated
them into those positions - I'm the thorn in her side who is proving to those who felt there was no hope
that there is hope for a solution

Somehow I think you would fit with the rubber stamp council majority. You obviously did not comprehend
what was posted earlier in the answers I received. SCOTUS says i am right in my criticisms , do you believe
yourself to be smarter than those on SCOTUS ?

The OP was made for those with common sense. Some will get something from the post, most will not -
There was no motion on the floor, the 3 CM's who voted to end debate were 3 of the 4 who would not 2nd
a motion I had made at a previous meeting to use Robert's Rules to conduct our meetings.

As for your statement that I have highlighted - it don't take long on this forum to figure out who are the
folks who have placed our country where it is today. I was just pointing out where I thought the council
majority had made some mistakes. The Mayor objects to that because she is the one who manipulated
them into those positions - I'm the thorn in her side who is proving to those who felt there was no hope
that there is hope for a solution

Somehow I think you would fit with the rubber stamp council majority. You obviously did not comprehend
what was posted earlier in the answers I received. SCOTUS says i am right in my criticisms , do you believe
yourself to be smarter than those on SCOTUS ?

My comments were of a neutral nature, Marv, and I have no insight as to the politics of your little berg in Washington (although we did stop there for lunch once). While I would not deign to argue with SCOTUS, I have been president/chair of a number of organizations and I think I have a fair understanding of Robert's. Some people chafe under Rules of Order but they are necessary to conduct meetings in a fair and equitable manner. Without rules of order, 2 hour meetings become 5 hour marathons that produce less result. I support your efforts to establish rules of order.

My comments were of a neutral nature, Marv, and I have no insight as to the politics of your little berg in Washington (although we did stop there for lunch once). While I would not deign to argue with SCOTUS, I have been president/chair of a number of organizations and I think I have a fair understanding of Robert's. Some people chafe under Rules of Order but they are necessary to conduct meetings in a fair and equitable manner. Without rules of order, 2 hour meetings become 5 hour marathons that produce less result. I support your efforts to establish rules of order.

In our little bUrg:

The Natural Gas utility was sold at the end of July for $6.8 mil realized - the Mayor wants to put that into a
fund so she can assure her employees continued employment in downturns .

There are presently 240 housing lots being developed - @ $25K a pop for impact fees that will be another
$6 mil - When I was on the School Board in the mid 70's & the developers were coming in to our community
at the time I asked the Superintendent to see if we could get an impact fee for all the construction that we
were going to have to do - the public sector managed to turn that into an art form - that was also a little
community, but we showed the bigger boys how to do many things - ​the Finance committee of our city council consists of:2 people who can't manage their own finances & an older lady whose major employment was as a desk clerk
for a now defunct newspaper. These are the people you want me to be nice to & I ask is there 1 good reason
I need to be?

The average F/T employee in the city cost us $85,000 in wages & direct benefits last year - the state manages & picks
up the retirement plan for all public employees - their way of catering to union influence - the payroll of the city
is in the $3.5 mil range - all city utility trucks have a pilot & a co-pilot - they spend more time during their shift
cruising the city & being certified than they do working - they are so clueless that they take pictures showing
all these extra folks as sightseers whenever there is a real issue - when there is a real issue we hire outside
people to come in & do the work. So I ask "Why are these people on the payroll carrying the titles they do?"

The source of most of the money spent by the city is their citizens, there are few viable small businesses in our
community - Remember that in order to pay anything the Payer has to cover all other taxes prior to having enough
to cover whatever their community demands!

As I told the Mayor sometime back, "If you do not want me criticizing you for doing stupid things, don't do them"
Now that I know I have the right guaranteed by SCOTUS we'll see if she's smart enough to deal with that. I think
her ego will get in the way of good sense.

You seem pretty good at summing up a problem and bitching about it, but I have yet to see a proposal from you. If you plan on doing nothing, but complain then you do not need to be nice to people. If you plan on changing anything you are going to need some buy in from the people around you and that gets a lot harder when they hold you in deep contempt. These are the people you have until the next election, you are stuck with them and you don't seem to have a working relationship.

Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

...the Finance committee of our city council consists of:
....2 people who can't manage their own finances & an older lady whose major employment was as a desk clerk
for a now defunct newspaper. These are the people you want me to be nice to & I ask is there 1 good reason
I need to be?

...As I told the Mayor sometime back, "If you do not want me criticizing you for doing stupid things, don't do them"
Now that I know I have the right guaranteed by SCOTUS we'll see if she's smart enough to deal with that. I think
her ego will get in the way of good sense.

I dunno, Marv, but it seems that you are wasting some valuable political capital by this "war". What do you wish to accomplish? Is it going to get you what you want? Charmers and schmoozers accomplish more than curmudgeons and billygoats.

Incidentally you might want to think about how the city will pay to defend your lawsuit. Will this result in a need to raise taxes? Is higher taxes and frivolous lawsuits really what you want to be remembered for?

Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

You seem pretty good at summing up a problem and bitching about it, but I have yet to see a proposal from you. If you plan on doing nothing, but complain then you do not need to be nice to people. If you plan on changing anything you are going to need some buy in from the people around you and that gets a lot harder when they hold you in deep contempt. These are the people you have until the next election, you are stuck with them and you don't seem to have a working relationship.

I do offer alternatives - some of which one has to be of a certain level of experience to comprehend - I originally supported this Mayor,
used to sit in her office every couple of months & discuss ways to make the city more efficient - my bride asked me why I was doing this
as none of these suggestions were implemented, not even the easy ones, because they would have created a level of accountability. - BTW,
I don't bitch, I point out facts, it really works -

Originally Posted by zeus3925

I dunno, Marv, but it seems that you are wasting some valuable political capital by this "war". What do you wish to accomplish? Is it going to get you what you want? Charmers and schmoozers accomplish more than curmudgeons and billygoats.

It's quite similar to training dogs - there is a immense difference in competency between those who compete successfully with the
big dogs & those who remain in other venues - we have people on the council who, at their best, could not train a JH or Started
level & are unwilling to progress beyond the poorly trained lapdog stage -

Originally Posted by Henlee

Incidentally you might want to think about how the city will pay to defend your lawsuit. Will this result in a need to raise taxes? Is higher taxes and frivolous lawsuits really what you want to be remembered for?

Do you really believe me that stupid? You apparently don't read my posts & see the level of concern I have for the taxpayers -
When I find an attorney to take this issue it will be with certain understandings that the taxpayer not suffer harm.

The city just lost a $400,000 lawsuit - one that was unnecessary as the people who brought it were only trying to get the city off
it's dime - the taxpayers of this city have to earn nearly $600,000 to cover that , depending on their individual circumstance. If
you are in the 25% bracket & self employed, what do you have to earn to pay $1,000 in utility bills? We do have people who live
here in the that are in the 35% bracket!