I hate to see this site go this way because it spills over into other discussions. I like the rule about no religious or political discussion and I wish the mods and admin would make everyone adhere to it.

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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

<<Soot levels in the air were reported to have risen alarmingly in 13 megacities: Bangkok, >>

good grief, exiting bangkoks airport terminal and taking in that first steaming hot polluted breath of air is glorious....its like, 'i'm home again' (sorry cord for using the thread to interject a travelism, i cant resist it, anyway, everyone is getting awfully pugnacious!), i hope it never becomes a paragon of cleanliness and purity like salzburg

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"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

BC,If you are going to complain about 'conduct unbecoming' in someone else, be sure that you yourself are not hurling boulders from a house of glass.You dislike me referring to humans in a dispassionate way, yet you are the one who refers to the Iraq war as an 'optional war'. Anyone who respects the sanctity of life would not condone a war that was anything other than unavoidable, but then, its easy to send people to war from the comfort of your armchair isnt it?

Christy, A strange response indeed. My, somewhat glib, attempt at humour was aimed squarely at BC, based on some rather fancifull views he holds regarding the motivations and machinations of University research (in the UK, at least), along with his reactionary right-wing conspiracy silliness.

As for my personal political beliefs, they are not represented by the very systems we have ruined, and so I do not vote.

When someone uses democracy to give the people what they want, as opposed to spending time trying to convince the majority to want what they offer, then I will be first in the voting booth, and I wont care if they are a transexual smurf, as long as they are more interested in positive use of power than the power itself.

We spend so much time pimping democracy on other cultures as if it is the holy grail, that we dont stop and look at what we are doing with it.

If we worked harder on improving our own societies, not attacking others, then other parts of the world may come to see the benefit of the system on their own.

At the moment, we are a door to door salesman, forcing people to buy faulty goods at gunpoint.

Actually, I'm not the one that refers to the Iraq war as an optional war. That is what many anti-war people are calling it. I believe it is a necassary war the way Germany's invasion of Austria was. The Europeans did nothing at the time. The reasons they did nothing were many and in a lot of ways valid at the time, but history shows that doing nothing was actually a mistake. You know that old line about not studying history. Bill

I see your point, and I humbly apologize for my remark to you. A bad attempt at being a smart-a55 on my part, too.

MattJ-

You called me a right wing, racist piece of sh1t, and told me to get bent. Aside from the fact that there was nothing even remotely racist in my remark, you had no right to slander me like that. I think you are the one who is actually the racist. Thou doth protest just a bit too much, I think.

And I might ask why the moderators chose to jump on me for my remark rather than MattJ for his open hostility and slander...

But again, my apologies to Cord, as I'm not too big to admit that i was out of line. Peace.

Quote: I believe it is a necassary war the way Germany's invasion of Austria was.

Really? Because Iraq had been shooting at our planes for a decade and never managed to hit one, so exactly how were they a threat to us?

How long did it take to overthrow that nation? A week? How many innocent people are now dead, thanks to American weapons? And please don't give me the Sadam killed x number of people, he was a bad guy, we all get it. But that doesn't give us the right to kill those people.

Oh and lets talk about how the war was waged....screw the Powell doctirne, we know a better way to wage war....(ever been in a war?...no...ever served in the military...no...so why again are you qualified to run things? Please remind me because for the life of me, I don't understand.

Bill, the reason people will not a have a "civil" debate with you, is because your views are not civil, or plausable on even the most basic of levels. That and many of us are tired of the crap your sources spew getting airtime and having impact on our society.

well, Kimo2007, I have been in the millitary but I have not gone to war. Well, in the United States the civillians are in charge of the millitary and so any American can comment on what their millitary is doing. Usually though, people on my side support our troops and do not try to undercut their success on the battlefield against evil killers. Kimo2007, you cord and Mattj are the people who could use lessons in civility. Right out of the box people like you are swearing, insulting the people you are addressing and being rude. My sources are great men and women who do their research and simply have different viewpoints on important issues. It is often said that conservatives think liberals are just wrong, while liberals think conservatives are evil. You guys demonstrate this all the time. You guys need to grow up. By the way, this forum may have kids on it so please stop swearing out there. The moderators should do more to stop the swearing than they do and even the words that have substitutions in the middle of them.Bill

I think 'evil' was a term popularized by the right during this decade, wasn't it? a way to keep open-ended war active by using undefinable terms like: "we will continue to fight this war on terror and stop the evil-doers..."

'evil-doers' = anyone who disagrees?

and in your first post, first sentance on this thread:

Quote: the first thing I have to say to you is never, never, trust the U.N. They are an organization filled with evil dictators and corrupt bureacrats.

YOU use the 'evil' term in a way that demonstrates the dumb fear-mongering 'evil-speak' propaganda this decade has seen abused by playing on people's 9/11 fears, was bought into hook-line-and-sinker by the (now minority) 40% of US people like you.

grow up and stop being rediculous. you sound like a holocaust denier.

look, the 'brown cloud' is smog. and a whole lot of it. if you want to deny smog, go to Bombay or Shanghai during the summer and take a deep breath. btw, NASA doesn't photoshop their satellite pictures, the 'from space' views given earlier was showing the smog.

'smog' is not vitamin C. It doesn't give you nutrients, and plants/animals don't like it either. it's what reasonable humans consider 'bad for ya', and the basic goal is to reduce the bad stuff in order to make life 'better' - another term commonly used by the reasonable people.

does smog contribute to global warming? I'd have to guess and say, ah-yup. I don't know for sure, but I do know the anti-liberal right are probably just acting on their homophobic fears when they say things like global warming is caused by the AIDS quilt.

same rediculousness applies: they say pollution levels are't all that bad, since they are trying to lesson restrictions (and therefore increase take-home pay) for their CEO cronies. Their only obstical is making more than 50% of the people believe that the one's disagreeing with them are 'anti-American', 'Evil', or whatever other label invokes an emotive response. The ones loosening pollution restrictions are the ones living in air-purified mansions on rolling hills in the countryside, not the ones living near power lines, oil fields or factories.

you've been had. wake up and smell the smog for what it is: garbage in the air. Want to argue on the side of allowing the rich to put more garbage in the air with no accountabilty, and don't mind higher temperatures? Have them buy you a one-way ticket to Venus and get off our g'damn planet, ditto-head.