Interesting! I wonder what they have on tap for new models? As I noted above, it has been five years since the M10 came out, so the time is ripe for an update (that doesn't cost 800 bucks like the D100)...

Maybe not quite the same price bracket, but I'd like to see Sony make a 4 or 6 channel competitor to the Zoom H6 or the new Tascam recorder - something with 4 XLR inputs like those others but with Sony's superior build quality and battery life. I was disappointed when the D100 came out - that they upgraded the built-in mics and the DAC but added no useful functionality.

Maybe I just just shut up and keep saving my pennies for a Sound Devices 633...

Remember, we are the low volume buyers, most users of the M10 are not concert archivists (us), they are reporters and that type... we just get lucky with the higher settings and menu options.But I will take it :)

Actually, I'll agree with Mr. Fried Chicken and say a digital in/our would really nice to synch decks. However, there is not enough real estate on the sides of the deck to make that happen with growing the unit.

I love the built in speaker.Atlease I can quick check if it recorded without headphones.I see people complained about the sound is to low.I think my M10 plays louder then the R-09HR.I was not happy they drop the speaker on the R-05.The mics probably only good on both recorders for note taking.They are useless for loud live work.

I also like to make a note about the M10 battery compartment design. Its alot better then the R-09HR.The R-09HR clip tend to bend in and loose connection and hard to read which way to install the batteries.The Sony spring design is alot better and easy to install batteries.

I also like to make a note about the M10 battery compartment design. Its alot better then the R-09HR.The R-09HR clip tend to bend in and loose connection and hard to read which way to install the batteries.The Sony spring design is alot better and easy to install batteries.

The hinges of the battery door are flimsy and need a more sturdy design.

I also like to make a note about the M10 battery compartment design. Its alot better then the R-09HR.The R-09HR clip tend to bend in and loose connection and hard to read which way to install the batteries.The Sony spring design is alot better and easy to install batteries.

The hinges of the battery door are flimsy and need a more sturdy design.

Yes I forgot to add that.The design probably looked good on the drafting table but in reality it stinks.

It looks like a friend's M10 has dodgy line in jack, after some years faithful service. I think she'll just get a new one but if anyone has a link to the breakdown instructions for an M10 I'd be grateful.

Did she try cleaning it first? It's rare that a jack out right fails unless a lot of stress has been placed on it or there's a manufacturing defect. I use Caig's cleaner with their 1/8" brush, but dipping a plug in some 90% or higher alcohol and inserting it repeatedly in the jack will usually do the trick.

Thanks dyneq. Yes, tried all that. All cables and battery box have been replaced. Same problem with at least 3 sets of mics. It was bought when they first came out and has cost about 2 cents a show, so it's not due her anything! But retaining it after repair as a backup is a good option. I do recall someone stripped one down and posted diagrams.

Did the entire Umphrey's NYE run without changing batteries on the M10. 5 nights, 11 sets, all over an hour plus a 4 hour ride home listening back. Only dropped one bar

Lithiums? I can still get around 18-20 hours on my m10s with 5 year old Energizer 2300mah AAs ;D 8) But I have a HQ charger and did a proper "break-in" when I first got them! Well worth the $60 I spent on my charger :)

Did the entire Umphrey's NYE run without changing batteries on the M10. 5 nights, 11 sets, all over an hour plus a 4 hour ride home listening back. Only dropped one bar

Lithiums? I can still get around 18-20 hours on my m10s with 5 year old Energizer 2300mah AAs ;D 8) But I have a HQ charger and did a proper "break-in" when I first got them! Well worth the $60 I spent on my charger :)

I've been thinking about replacing my R-09HR. Since so many people have loved the M10, and who knows what will come if/when it is discontinued, I just ordered an M10 at B&H for $199. Hopefully it will work nicely with my CA14 cards (which I usually tape to the sides of my eyeglasses), or my CA11 croakie cards > CA9200 pre.

I've been thinking about replacing my R-09HR. Since so many people have loved the M10, and who knows what will come if/when it is discontinued, I just ordered an M10 at B&H for $199. Hopefully it will work nicely with my CA14 cards (which I usually tape to the sides of my eyeglasses), or my CA11 croakie cards > CA9200 pre.

An M10 will definitely play nicely with the CA11>CA9200 combination. Here's the first show I taped with the same set-up:

I'm so glad I got the M10 .So far I got 2 great shows out of it with the Sony mics.Kept the volume knob around 3 and 3 1/2 and it came out great.I have no issues with the knob turning and I'm glad they have that type of level control then the digital type that the R09HR has.If they upgrade it.They could make the font on the screen bigger is my only rant about it..I dont need touch screen and WiFi features like the new digital cameras have.I wish the price at B&H will come down on it since I purchased it from there last year to replace my R09HR.I use the R09HR for the backup since it still runs great and it replaced the Sony minidisc I was using for the backup recorder.

for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option? I'm also looking at the R-05. I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh. Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement. I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option? I'm also looking at the R-05. I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh. Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement. I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!

I had an R-05. I liked it but there seems to be a design issue with the circuit board where the inputs will eventually short out even with gentle use (and it's on the board, not in any wiring).

I replaced that R-05 with an M-10.

The R-05 is very compact and seems to have good specs especially through the line-in. It is definitely more cheaply made and less rugged feeling than the M-10 though. The M-10 recording level control (the wheel) is way, way better than the R-05 push button. Worth the upgrade for that alone IMO. The test specs are better (I think it is a little quieter, cleaner though that may not matter with loud shows). The M-10 limiter is much better. The battery life is better.

thanks bomb. I never mess with input level since I just do my analog levels through my CA-9200 amp, but I'll keep that in mind. If there will be issues down the road with the board, that's good info.

My concerns with the M-10 are microSD (bleh) and the wheel that can get bumped if it's in my pocket (I have a couple low-pro amps to use for certain situations).

Being used to the R09 for almost 10 years the interface is easy for me too.

I don't like the microSD either (and had to get some cards for it, but they're cheap now). The Sony does have 2 GB internal, which has been useful on occasion (like if you forget a card or run out of room as it will seemlessly go cross-memory). The wheel seems pretty hard to move unintentionally. I think the lock locks the levels as well (but not sure about that)?

If you got 10 years out of the R-09 that's great. I'd be very concerned you wouldn't get more than a few months from an R-05 in your pocket (mine was never pocketed).

for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option? I'm also looking at the R-05. I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh. Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement. I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!

My R-09HR sometimes has lines in it.It comes and goes.I still use it for a back up.

for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option? I'm also looking at the R-05. I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh. Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement. I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!

I had an R-05. I liked it but there seems to be a design issue with the circuit board where the inputs will eventually short out even with gentle use (and it's on the board, not in any wiring).

I replaced that R-05 with an M-10.

The R-05 is very compact and seems to have good specs especially through the line-in. It is definitely more cheaply made and less rugged feeling than the M-10 though. The M-10 recording level control (the wheel) is way, way better than the R-05 push button. Worth the upgrade for that alone IMO. The test specs are better (I think it is a little quieter, cleaner though that may not matter with loud shows). The M-10 limiter is much better. The battery life is better.

I have two R-05's and they both get used at least every week, mostly in low pro situations. They are both from when the model was first introduced and I have never had any issues. I also had one I sold, the hold switch had stopped working, but in all other ways it functioned as nicely as if brand new. I have not heard of any design issues and the deck is still sold. I guess it's apples and oranges, because I think the M-10 is more poorly made, with issues of the 2 channels not being balanced and the micro card being very touchy, as well as the battery door. I think the Marantz PMD 620 MKII, not the original one, is better than both, as well as the DR-2d, which is a bit bigger than I prefer, but I still like to use the R-05 as my low pro go to I think it probably is a matter of taste and personal preference.

Since I just transfer the files from the M10 to my computer and move them to my external HD.I dont even touch the MicroSD card.The card been in the M10 since I got it.I had no issues with the volume knob.Luckily its still stiff to turn and gets taped for just in case it gets hit.My only gripe and rant with the M10 is the small print on the screen.The R-09HR is readable with the black and white screen.

I hope Sony dont kill the M10 off yet because I like to get another M10 for a backup and retire the R-09HR because its getting old and just use it for simple tasks.

Since I just transfer the files from the M10 to my computer and move them to my external HD.I dont even touch the MicroSD card.The card been in the M10 since I got it.

Same here. And while the lock does *not* lock the gain, I never have any problems with the gain wheel turning unintentionally either. (The switches on the back do occasionally, but that's immediately apparent on the display, and a couple pieces of tape will take care of that regardless.)

The battery life is truly ridiculous. I never remember to turn the damn thing off, and the batteries still last for months.

Since I just transfer the files from the M10 to my computer and move them to my external HD.I dont even touch the MicroSD card.The card been in the M10 since I got it.

Same here. And while the lock does *not* lock the gain, I never have any problems with the gain wheel turning unintentionally either. (The switches on the back do occasionally, but that's immediately apparent on the display, and a couple pieces of tape will take care of that regardless.)

The battery life is truly ridiculous. I never remember to turn the damn thing off, and the batteries still last for months.

Yea .I tape the backside switches up too.I agree 110 percent on the battery life.Running and on standby .I just swop the rechargeable Duracell batteries every month just to keep it happy.I'm happier with the old fashion rotary gain knob then the digital gain control on the R-09HR.

Sony did a nice job of coming up the this recorder.I wonder what they will come up next .

those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp? I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

I have the CA-9100 preamp and I use the level adjustment on that AND the wheel on the Sony PCM m10. It is very nice to have both for fine tuning. Micro SD are not too expensive. I use a 32gb and get 15 hours of recording time at 24/96After every show I copy to my computer, but leave the original wav file on the micro SD. I like to keep to keep the cards as a backup, and its also nice to keep the music on there so I can use the M10 for playback on headphones or plugged into the AUX jack on my car stereo, so that's another reason I don't clear the card and reuse.When the card fills up I just put it away in a little box. All my original recordings are in there. It's comforting to know that they are all there safe in case my computer crashes, is stolen, or whatever…

those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp? I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

nBoxPremium has nothing but on/off, the m10 is volume control

what's an "nBoxPremium"?

nbox/nbox platinumIt's is a box made by a ts member to power schoeps mics (and now some others like nbob akg actives)Runs on 4 9v batteries. Platinum one runs for days while regular not so muchIt may have built in gain but one way or the other you must use the m10 to adjust overall gain/volume with this set up.

When the card fills up I just put it away in a little box. All my original recordings are in there. It's comforting to know that they are all there safe in case my computer crashes, is stolen, or whatever…

I reuse my card, but not before I've backed up my recordings both to an external backup drive and to Crashplan. (Which is what I do with all my files these days.)

Also, forgot to mention that the M10 will cross-save data (with no gaps) to its internal memory and the card if it runs out of room on one or the other. Not sure if that's common for other devices, but it's a nice feature regardless.

Can an M10 that switches to internal memory even though the memory card is not full, be considered faulty? I never have issues when doing single shows, but at festivals this happens all day long. The memory card is no where close to full and it just switches to internal. Yes I have it set to cross memory and also have it set to record to card first. I'm going to do some tests at home with the cross record disabled, run it all day on memory card and see what happens.

It's a new 32GB SanDisk. This is the second card I tried. Also did the same thing with a 64GB Silicon Power, but I found the SP card to be bad. Both cards formatted in the M10. I guess its possible to have two bad cards. The SanDisk says it has 22 gigs free. I don't know if its switching to internal at the same amount of data each time. I'll have to check that.

The counterfeits have a way of reformatting to make them appear they have the nominal volume they're supposed to but they run out when the real size is reached. It sounds like the card is holding about 8 GB? Perhaps a cheap 8 GB card re-labelled and sold as a 32 GB "Sandisk"?

As has been said around here a lot of times don't buy discounted cards on ebay or Amazon. Make sure you buy retail packaged from some place like Staples, Best Buy or somewhere that is buying direct from the manufacturer...

I'd be surprised if it's a real card. In the computer as an exercise you could try copying 20 GB or whatever of files onto it and see if they actually fit.

I just keep the micro in the M10 and transfer the recordings to to my backup drive and to a regular size SD for backup and storage.

I had a PNY card go bad in my new Nikon Digital camera last November .I send it to a friend who does file recovery and he said the the controller chip inside the SD fried and could not find a donor controller chip to replace the bad one.The SD card was about 4 years old and it was will used in my digital cameras .The R-09HR,MP3 player Digital picture frame to just name a few. I think I purchased it at BJs or Walmart.Sorry about drifting off the topic.

As has been said around here a lot of times don't buy discounted cards on ebay or Amazon. Make sure you buy retail packaged from some place like Staples, Best Buy or somewhere that is buying direct from the manufacturer...

I always thought Amazon was one of the legit retailers, provided you're not purchasing from a third party. I know that Sandisk sells directly on there and have bought from them in the past. Should I be avoiding Amazon as a whole for memory from now on?

I have had a genuine retail-packaged, full-price 64GB SanDisk microsd go bad on me before. It wasn't right away, but after a few months using in my phone holding music, it read fine but acted as though it was write protected (it wasn't - you just couldn't delete anything or write to it.) It couldn't be formatted in any device, and even a low-level format wouldn't work. The replacement I bought has worked fine in 2 phones since then.

Its looking like I have a faulty M10. It takes two or three tries to get any card to load. There must be some damage inside that slot. This could be why its switching to internal memory while recording. I remember at a fest last year another taper tried to load the card backwards. :facepalm:

Anyone have Sony repair info? Or maybe I should just get another 70D. ;)

Its looking like I have a faulty M10. It takes two or three tries to get any card to load. There must be some damage inside that slot. This could be why its switching to internal memory while recording. I remember at a fest last year another taper tried to load the card backwards. :facepalm:

Anyone have Sony repair info? Or maybe I should just get another 70D. ;)

Edit: Looks like the LA service is the one for audio?

I wonder if the SDcard slot contacts need cleaning.I had issues with other devices with dirty contacts.Or the taper did screw up the slot like you said.I split open fix one of my digital camera and clean the dust,pocket lint out of it and rebent the pins in.I dont recommend anybody doing this unless they know how to work on electronics.I had to do it with the R-09HR.

I don't think either card is counterfeit. They were bought from B&H. Both cards are to old at this point to return.

Cards from B&H should be legit, though the no-name one may have it's own issues...

Amazon should be a legit but you have to watch out that it's really from Amazon. Third party sellers can be anything and occasionally Amazon will take orders and flip them over to third party sellers in their channel. I'd assume they wouldn't do that with cards but who knows...

The slot could be bad though I'm not sure why it would start out OK then at some point stop reading. Perhaps it seems that was an interim problem before it failed completely though?

Sorry to hear it... The card slot is the one thing that makes me a bit uncomfortable about the recorder... It seems really flimsy and it can be touchy on the load. I may be used to it now but I did have one episode where it seemed loaded but wasn't completely and only showed the internal memory. I'm starting to lean more toward the cable approach to transfer files despite how slow it is.

When my first M10 needed service, I was instructed to send it to the Teaneck, NJ service center. I'm on the east coast, so it may be based on your region. My internal mics had about a 3dB imbalance, and they promptly determined it was a manufacturing defect and sent out a new unit.

The microSD slot is a weak point. I used only the internal memory for a long time, but the first time I tried to use a card, I kept trying to put it in backwards. It's also easy to put it in the correct way, but slightly misaligned. You have to be very careful with it.

Because of this, I never take the card out and transfer through the recorder. The slow transfer speed is worth it to not have to deal with the card.

When my first M10 needed service, I was instructed to send it to the Teaneck, NJ service center. I'm on the east coast, so it may be based on your region. My internal mics had about a 3dB imbalance, and they promptly determined it was a manufacturing defect and sent out a new unit.

The microSD slot is a weak point. I used only the internal memory for a long time, but the first time I tried to use a card, I kept trying to put it in backwards. It's also easy to put it in the correct way, but slightly misaligned. You have to be very careful with it.

Because of this, I never take the card out and transfer through the recorder. The slow transfer speed is worth it to not have to deal with the card.

I always take the card out and it is sloppy going back in. I sometimes get an error message after loading. Once its loaded properly it should be good to go. Teaneck it is. I really can't trust it at this point.

The microSD slot is a weak point. I used only the internal memory for a long time, but the first time I tried to use a card, I kept trying to put it in backwards. It's also easy to put it in the correct way, but slightly misaligned. You have to be very careful with it.Because of this, I never take the card out and transfer through the recorder. The slow transfer speed is worth it to not have to deal with the card.

It took me a few "duh" moments to realize that the micro card only works in the position of the graphic on the back of the unit, and you should only put the card "that way"

Also, I take my card out after every show for a faster transfer via a full SD card, into the slot in my laptop... and no issues with that, I am just easy with the card removal and replacement.

I can tell you from experience, it it best for the card to be formatted after ever few shows, it just seems to run "cleaner"

My 64gb microSD card comes out every time I record something to transfer the files to my laptop. I also use my M10 as my portable music player, so frequently take the card out to swap music files around. When the card is nearly full I take the card out to delete all my recordings. The only time the card was formatted was the day it arrived from Amazon. I've had no problems so far.

I've been recording all week to the memory card and no issues. I have it set to card first and cross is on. So I'm guessing I got it to mount proprerly and from now on I'll leave it in and transfer via M10 instead of removing the card. Either that or request a repair.

Finally finished reading this entire thread. Some great info in here.I bought an M10 a few weeks ago and have been digitizing my vinyl collection with it.Haven't gotten to record any shows yet with it, but I did go ahead and order a CA-9200, a pair of CA-14 Cards, and a pair of CA-14 Omnis.I can already tell this player is waaay better than the Sony DAT player I used to record with in the 90's.

Just go through the Menu and Detail Menu sub-menu and mostly use common sense. REC mode .wav or at least 320, Memory internal or external card (your choice). In the Detail Menu enable Cross-Memory Recording so if you run out on the card it switches to internal (or vice versa). Choose your battery type (NiMH are rechargeables) and how long you want the backlight to stay on.

PRE REC....when you hit Record it's paused (and blinking) so you can find a level. You have to then hit Pause to start recording. Pre Rec On means that it will grab 5 seconds before you started (un-paused) if you're a little slow.

Limiter is contentious here but I always have it on. If there's a HUGE LOUD PEAK the limiter will drop your record level. Otherwise it does nothing whatsoever. It's not like the compressors (sometimes called limiters) used at radio stations or studios that keep all the music within a narrow dynamic range. I think of it as the airbag--just there for emergencies.

Don't forget the switches on the back! They make a big difference. Use Manual Level (Take a look at how the display reverses when it's on Auto). DPC off. Probably Low sensitivity, though that only affects internal mics and mic recording and you're going to be going Line-in with the preamp.

You'll have to figure out the record level you are most comfortable with, with your preferred combo of settings on the preamp and the level knob. I like to keep it so the green lights flash at the peaks of the music; other people live a little more dangerously and like to stay in the green-light zone more consistently. If the red light flashes...you'll want the limiter on.

Checking in. just got one yesterday. although the 32gb card that came with it doesn't seem to be recognized. any card suggestions?

i don't have the time to backread the entire thread...

what are the best settings for what we do? what should i turn on/off?

thanks!

flip the card over, willing to bet its in backwards - common user error

nope. tried that a few times before posting.

edit: apparently it's tricky to get it in JUST right... i've flipped it a dozen times but it just now finally found the slot and was readable... weird. 32 gb gives 31 hours of record time at 24/48 though!

nope. tried that a few times before posting.edit: apparently it's tricky to get it in JUST right... i've flipped it a dozen times but it just now finally found the slot and was readable... weird. 32 gb gives 31 hours of record time at 24/48 though!

Best trick I use, is to insert it exactly the way the card image is shown on the back of the unit... push it in until it is firm, then "click" it in the rest of the way (a 2 step process)

I don't understand what effect the limiter would have if you weren't going into the red zone. To my understanding nothing happens with the limiter below that. Were there sudden downshifts in volume with big bass notes?

Or is it possible the mics were under-powered and distorting on their own from loud bass?

The specs for the 4061 are confusing to me:http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&category=128&item=24039#specifications

Obviously 9V is above the 5V minimum, but 48V phantom power--to get the maximum SPL of 144--is a lot higher than 9 V.

I know from my own mistakes that low power is a great way to get lousy distorted bass.

Going through mic-in you had both low voltage (PiP is less than 5V) and the possibility of preamp distortion. Very low record-level settings on the PCM-M10 also can be a little wonky. But that would sound different from the limiter suddenly making the volume dip.

nope. tried that a few times before posting.edit: apparently it's tricky to get it in JUST right... i've flipped it a dozen times but it just now finally found the slot and was readable... weird. 32 gb gives 31 hours of record time at 24/48 though!

Best trick I use, is to insert it exactly the way the card image is shown on the back of the unit... push it in until it is firm, then "click" it in the rest of the way (a 2 step process)

earmonger: I would guess the limiter starts to kick in around -12dBFS. Depending on how risk-averse or not I feel, I usually want my peaks to be in the -6 to -10 range).

I've definitely recorded louder shows (at line-in at 3.7 - 6.5) with DPA 4061 with the same 9V BB without bass distortion problems as long as I left the limiter off.

From what I've read on TS, the DPA converters output 5V DC. Using 48V (or perhaps even 12V) would fry the DPA 4061s based on my reading here.

I took a big chance and pulled Godflesh last night from the front row with the 4063s into M10 PiP mic-in @ level=2.0 @48kHz. Sounded fine on a hyper-detailed headphone setup (Benchmark DAC1 Pre > Sennheiser HD 800) although there was a 1.6ms window with 35 clipped samples in the left channel, but no more than 6 consecutive clipped ones, so I couldn't hear it, at least.

What I do notice in many of my recordings is distortion in the mids/highs, but that could be the mics picking up distortion in the PA system that my earplugged ears did not notice.

i'm not a fan of limiters on recorders. i like to play it conservative anyway. i usually peak at -12 to -6. six decibels is a huge peak to clip. and even if you hit zero, it's not the end of the world.

I took a big chance and pulled Godflesh last night from the front row with the 4063s into M10 PiP mic-in @ level=2.0 @48kHz. Sounded fine on a hyper-detailed headphone setup (Benchmark DAC1 Pre > Sennheiser HD 800) although there was a 1.6ms window with 35 clipped samples in the left channel, but no more than 6 consecutive clipped ones, so I couldn't hear it, at least.

From the M10 manual:"When the 'LIMITER' is set to 'ON,' the limiter function of the PCM recorder covers the input from the maximum input level to +12 dB. If the input exceeds this limit, sounds may be distorted."That'd seem to imply it reduces peaks in the 0 to +12 dB range, but nothing below that. Though just dropping everything from there to 0 dB would give you the same clipping as no limiter, so hmm.

^ In and of itself the limiter does not leave anything clipped or distorted so far as I can tell.

It may help with a rare transient. If someone really pounds something to way over the usual input level that peak will still be clipped though. Safety margin perhaps but I'd not rely on it. It doesn't seem to hurt but may not necessarily be a substantial help.

Hello, I just bought an M10 and have a questionThe manual says " A microsSD (FAT16) card smaller than 2 GB and a microSDHC (FAT32) card from 4GB to 16GB are supported"So I wonder if I can use a 32GB or if it's still limited to 16GB? Anyone have tried a SanDisk MicroSDHC 32GB, Class 4?

Same here - works fine. 16GB may have been the largest microSD available at the time the M10 was released which is why it says that. Kind of like my old cell phone stated it would only support up to 32GB cards, but I used a 64GB and it worked.

I think the first 32 GB microSDHC came out at almost the same time as the M10, maybe a little later, so Sony probably never tested them; since the recorder is HC compliant, though, it is not a huge surprise that 32 GB cards will work. The M10 predates microSDXC, so it is also not a surprise that cards larger than 32 GB can cause problems...

Hi all.I just got new B&H catalog.The M10 did not make it in it but they still have the M10 online with a jacked up price of $245 bucks.

I still using my 8gb micro card in the M10 and have no issues with the card which is a Toshiba.I dont need a bigger card at this moment since I dump the the recording off the micro onto my external drive everytime after I use it.

I would not take any chances on stock piling previous recordings as adding new recordings nightly on those big micro cards in case the card goes belly up and cant be recoverable .I had a regular size SD card that the controller chip inside went bad according to my data recovery person said.. 4 days of Still shots and Video was lost on that card and had to redo the job over again..

^ I guess the rumor of the M10 being discontinued was never substantiated?

Would be great to see Sony release an updated recorder but I wouldn't read too much into the M10 not being included in the current print copy of the B&H catalog; that place is huge and there's no way they can include everything in the catalog.

^ I guess the rumor of the M10 being discontinued was never substantiated?

Would be great to see Sony release an updated recorder but I wouldn't read too much into the M10 not being included in the current print copy of the B&H catalog; that place is huge and there's no way they can include everything in the catalog.

Agreed. I just got the new catalog and they've really cut back / condensed a lot of the audio side of things. And they only have listed one Schoeps product in their print catalog for a while, while in reality they carry or can special order the full line.

Welcome to the wave of the future, bud. A lot of people have lost their lust for a V3 once they've seen/heard what an M10 is capable of. I don't think there's an auto-track mark feature, but if you want to place marks during recording or in playback you just hit the silver T-Mark button. Most use CDwave Editor to do this in post.

There is no auto track marking function (if you mean the kind of function that minidisc had that would insert a mark every X minutes).

But the very unobtrusive remote of the PCM-M10 gives you a track mark button. I do most of my track breaks at the show, during applause, and if I miss one or misplace one they can be inserted or removed (and re-inserted) later.

There's been a lot of M10-related posts lately, so I thought I'd bump the "official" discussion thread. I've been wondering why people keep starting new M10 threads, and maybe it's because they don't know this one exists.

okay i had too send my 5 month old M10 away to Sony because it would stop recording.anyway since Sony Canada has the M10 Discounted and i have though about buying another one, i was wondering what out of the box ideas you have.I.E. SD 552 or Mixpre and Tascam DR-40 Since the DR-40 is $129.99 or Zoom 8 if the Pre's are a lot better than Tascam DR-70D, DR-701D.any other out of box ideas, i don't have a iphone so that is not a option.

I received a reply from Sony Nordic when asking for a successor to M10.

Roughly translated from Swedish:"New audio recording devices were released in March 2016 and they are the newest on the market. Unfortunately I don't know if a successor with precisely those specifications will be released. However, if you have not already done so, check out the later versions of the PCM-M10 which is D-50 but also the D-100."

"However, if you have not already done so, check out the later versions of the PCM-M10 which is D-50 but also the D-100."

Pointing out the obvious to the rep from Sony Nordic, aside from the D50 also being discontinued, both it and the D100 are considerably larger and more expensive than the M10. A little disheartening that Sony doesn't have a current successor to the M10 nor does one appear to be in the pipeline.

I suspect that Sony may no longer see this market segment as a worthwhile investment. It may depend on how well the D100 sells, which is very expensive given its features. There may still be enough people buying it though, such that Sony sees no reason to develop a cheaper unit in the line to replace the M10.

An "M20" that is nothing more than a refresh would be fairly boring. They would need to add real functionality, and make something competitive with recorders such as the new Tascam DR-100mkIII for me to take interest. That would cost them a huge amount in R&D and production, which is why I don't think it's ever going to happen.

The real question may be why they are discontinuing the M10, when they could just keep pumping them out with no new revision and the associated costs that would bring. Either it's not selling well anymore, or it may be still selling very well, but they want to drive customers towards the D100 which they are avoiding because of the price.

Was just at B&H Photo video in NYC hoping to pick up one of the M10s before they disappear forever. No luck (totally out of stock), but the salesperson in the Pro Audio section mentioned that Sony had announced to them that there indeed was to be a M10 successor that was to be smaller and with higher sound quality. No more specifics, and no timeline for its release, unfortunately.

^ Interesting; thanks! I wonder if we don't get an announcement pretty soon, as fall is probably a good time for product introductions (so that the "M20" makes it's way on to lots of Christmas lists). Assuming a new model is in the works, Sony was quite clever about this. With no known successor to the popular M10 announced, they kind of fueled a run on the remaining M10s...

Was just at B&H Photo video in NYC hoping to pick up one of the M10s before they disappear forever. No luck (totally out of stock), but the salesperson in the Pro Audio section mentioned that Sony had announced to them that there indeed was to be a M10 successor that was to be smaller and with higher sound quality. No more specifics, and no timeline for its release, unfortunately.

While that statement may sound great, I'd actually be kind of disappointed if it were true. If it's smaller than the M10, there goes the possibility of P48 inputs, although I figured that wasn't going to happen anyway. "Higher sound quality" probably means they use the A/D section from the D100 so they can slap their "Hi-Res Audio" marketing badge on it and crow about 192kHz and DSD.

My first exposure to the m10 was a review discussing the m10 as a journalism tool. That might be a larger market for a more compact recorder than folks using it for concert recording.

Sony may not want to put xlr inputs on a recorder that would undercut their d100. Sonys marketing also seems much different to me than tascam in that tascam seems to offer many more overlapping and confusingly similar recorders, mostly all aimed at musicians.

Only place I could find it online is on ebay, and the only reasonable price (e.g. less than $300) is from "downtown", apparently another camera shop based in NYC. They have 10 left if anyone wants to try them. It could be returned stock being sold as new since they don't seal/tape the boxes. Hope a "M20" comes out someday, the M10 was/is a nearly perfect recorder for tapers that seemed to be nearly universally loved here.

'Hate to side track the M20 talk, but I've got a question about using the M10 as a MP3 player when traveling. I've got a 16gb card in the slot and have renamed several folders with appropriate titles for the new contents that I drag and drop from my PC file structure to the M10.

Occasionally, not every case, the files that are copied from PC > M10 will appear in order, but the last track will play first on the M10. Very frustrating and I don't really know what I may be doing to promote this behavior. Perhaps it's not a very reliable file structure.

I just picked up an extra from Newegg/Adorama — looks like they still have some in stock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P01ZS0829

I've definitely seen M10s in use by journalists (I'm one); not sure if it really needs to be much smaller to appeal to journalists, and "higher sound quality" is overkill. I'm puzzled as well why they'd discontinue an item that at the very least continues to sell well to a niche market, though there's no accounting for marketing strategies.

'Hate to side track the M20 talk, but I've got a question about using the M10 as a MP3 player when traveling. I've got a 16gb card in the slot and have renamed several folders with appropriate titles for the new contents that I drag and drop from my PC file structure to the M10.

Occasionally, not every case, the files that are copied from PC > M10 will appear in order, but the last track will play first on the M10. Very frustrating and I don't really know what I may be doing to promote this behavior. Perhaps it's not a very reliable file structure.

Thanks for any comments

I use my M10 as a portable music player, and there is quite a few positive discussions about the audio quality of the device such as this here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/456327/sony-pcm-m10-as-portable-player

Of course the main disadvantage is that it's a recording device, and not an audio player, and the file structure is arranged to play in order that the file was created. For some people the downside is outweighed by the advantage that you can play WAV files to a high standard, and it's less money than equivalent audio players.

I think the ordering can be solved by the order in which the files are saved onto your SD card.

I have some folders where the tracks play out of order, but it's usually something like tracks 5 to 12 and then 1 to 4. Easily solved by tracking through to start at 1.

Sometimes, if you click the first file and then shift click the last one, the first one actually gets copies last. Try clicking the last file and then shift clicking the first one to highlight them all. They will probably copy in order. Maybe it is the time they were created on the microSD, not created originally. Just a guess.

^ That sounds like something I might have done. I'll experiment w/that process.

In the mean time I found this on Head-Fi:

Another annoyance is that every folder is sorted by the date and time the file was written to the internal memory or to the flash card - it will not be sorted by folder name. This is great for making and finding your recordings of various gigs, but not so great when you're trying to use the PCM-M10 as a DAP. A solution to this problem is to periodically copy all of the files you've accumulated on a given flash card off to a folder on your PC, then use the PCM-M10 to format the flash card (while you're at it - just to refresh its sectors), then when you copy the whole lot of it back to the flash card, it will be displayed in the PCM-M10 in the sequence with which the files were added to the card. Joy!

'Hate to side track the M20 talk, but I've got a question about using the M10 as a MP3 player when traveling. I've got a 16gb card in the slot and have renamed several folders with appropriate titles for the new contents that I drag and drop from my PC file structure to the M10.

Occasionally, not every case, the files that are copied from PC > M10 will appear in order, but the last track will play first on the M10. Very frustrating and I don't really know what I may be doing to promote this behavior. Perhaps it's not a very reliable file structure.

I'm running my newly acquired DPA 4061's --> 9V BB ---> M10 for the first time -- for a couple of upcoming John Prine shows -- and wondering, LINE IN or MIC IN? Thanks!

I would use mic in. A battery box is not a preamplifier only a power supply. John Prine should not be overwhelmingly loud.

If there's an opener, play with the gain settings for both and see which one sits in a more comfortable range. You'll probably be fine with either LINE IN with the gain cranked way up or MIC IN with the gain set lower. (I've never used 4061s, so can't speak to how sensitive they are.)

And, of course, be sure to record in 24-bit so that if you end up with a quieter recording, you have plenty of bits to play with when enloudening it later.

M10's preamps are pretty good.... IMO, go battery box > MIC input. Set your peak lights for -12... set levels to try to keep em peaking in the green (as close as you can). Even with 24 bit, do your best not to waste any bits. From people smarter than me, the M10 is marketed as 24 bit.... but results are closer to 16 bits. Start with levels set at 4 or 5 on the dial... and adjust accordingly.Fantastic little deck!!!

........I think I met you once years ago at Toyota Park Phish maybe?? You told me that you used to run B&K's maybe??Make great tapes man!!!

Wanna check your levels with nobody else around? Try hollering a few feet away from your setup... you know, the way folks will at a John Prine show?! That oughtta be louder than the music, unless you set your mics next to the main PA stacks.

Wanna check your levels with nobody else around? Try hollering a few feet away from your setup... you know, the way folks will at a John Prine show?! That oughtta be louder than the music, unless you set your mics next to the main PA stacks.

M10's preamps are pretty good.... IMO, go battery box > MIC input. Set your peak lights for -12... set levels to try to keep em peaking in the green (as close as you can). Even with 24 bit, do your best not to waste any bits. From people smarter than me, the M10 is marketed as 24 bit.... but results are closer to 16 bits. Start with levels set at 4 or 5 on the dial... and adjust accordingly.Fantastic little deck!!!

........I think I met you once years ago at Toyota Park Phish maybe?? You told me that you used to run B&K's maybe??Make great tapes man!!!

Yup, that was me. Good memory. Used to run the B&K 4011's back in the day, LOVED those mics, made some great pulls with 'em!I've been out of the game for quite some time and not up to speed with current technology, so thanks for the suggestions!

The power switch on my M10 is sticking. You know how you pull it down to power on the unit, then let it snap back to the middle position? Mine just stays stuck in the down position. Anyone else experience this problem, and have a fix for it?

The DR-100 mkIII is a lot larger than the M10, so it might not be a good replacement option for some. I don't have any personal experience, but the R-05 seems to be pretty popular and I know several people who think highly of the small Olympus recorders, so maybe those would be good substitutes. And maybe Sony will introduce a replacement. I think the M10 sold pretty well, so you would think they wouldn't completely abandon that market...

... the [Roland] R-05 seems to be pretty popular and I know several people who think highly of the small Olympus recorders, so maybe those would be good substitutes.

The R-05 gets my vote for heir alternative to the M10 throne. Doesn't have the astounding battery life of the Sony but you should be good for about a day of festival taping. The R-05 might actually be slightly smaller overall and the specs are just about the same as the M10. In nearly 5 years, mine hasn't given me so much as a hiccup of trouble.

I have had 2 for a while, back in the DAT days I had the need to have 2 "just in case", and I continue to have the backup for times when I have to wear the hat, as I have a SD for stand shows....I hope they bring something new to CES in January

Odd experience today: My spouse/partner has a PCM-M10 which she uses for playback of pre-recorded piano accompaniments for her singing. It has worked perfectly any number of times. But today at her voice lesson when she turned it on, the settings for playback speed and "key" (= pitch) had both shifted downwards, as I confirmed this evening when I looked through the menu settings.

Thing is, until tonight when I showed her, she didn't even know how to get in to the menus or to operate them, and no one else had had access to the recorder. Those settings just "changed themselves," it seems.

Odd experience today: My spouse/partner has a PCM-M10 which she uses for playback of pre-recorded piano accompaniments for her singing. It has worked perfectly any number of times. But today at her voice lesson when she turned it on, the settings for playback speed and "key" (= pitch) had both shifted downwards, as I confirmed this evening when I looked through the menu settings.

Thing is, until tonight when I showed her, she didn't even know how to get in to the menus or to operate them, and no one else had had access to the recorder. Those settings just "changed themselves," it seems.

Has anyone else here had this happen?

speed control switch on the back got moved, almost guarantee it.Happened to me once in the car listen on the way home from a show, slide off the seat, hit the floor and moved without me knowing it was even there, had my heart skip a beat thinking I broke something lol

https://d37vpt3xizf75m.cloudfront.net/api/file/hnEHkmSEO8VXSR3syAwi Page 54 has detailsIt's switch "28", top left as you look at the front of m10

Thanks for the reply and the link to the instruction manual. Yes, the DPC switch must have been turned on by accident. But that's understandable as a result of normal handling--and I found that problem easily enough, since a rectangle was displayed on the screen that showed the setting being applied (-15%).

That's the least mysterious part of this incident; what I don't understand is how the menu settings could have gotten set the way they were. The DPC menu item has a factory default of -30%, not -15% (of course I immediately set it to 0 so that the DPC switch setting now has no audible effect). And the "Key Control" (= pitch) was set to lower the pitch a half-step, and doesn't depend on any switch. It certainly wasn't set that way before yesterday, though neither of us accessed the menu in between.

So I hope that these settings won't slip again, if that's what they did.

But for some reason I still wonder if it might have been the microphones. I was recording test tones with some church ca-11's about 1cm away from a speaker to test for a balance problem. I got the headphone and microphone input plugs mixed up and noticed my error when I saw a dramatic difference in recording levels. I can't remember if the levels were higher or lower going into the headphone jack as the microphone problem I was trying to record involved a dramatic volume difference and I was switching around different microphones and caps.

But for some reason I still wonder if it might have been the microphones. I was recording test tones with some church ca-11's about 1cm away from a speaker to test for a balance problem. I got the headphone and microphone input plugs mixed up and noticed my error when I saw a dramatic difference in recording levels. I can't remember if the levels were higher or lower going into the headphone jack as the microphone problem I was trying to record involved a dramatic volume difference and I was switching around different microphones and caps.

I was just happy that I didn't screw up the recorder! :facepalm:

If you have mics plugged into the headphone jack, that means there are no mics plugged into the mic or line input, so it will then default to the internal mics. It is not and would not be recording from mics plugged into the headphone jack, but it will output through those mics.

Hello all, newbie here so forgive the basic question. I finally have a set of mics coming (CA-11 cards) that I can test my M10 with. I don't have a battery box yet, so I will be plugging them directly into the device for now. Am I right in thinking I should use the mic in port with plug in power enabled? Or should it be the line in port instead? I read that the mic in port should be used more if it's a quieter/acoustic type set (I typically go to quite loud indie/rock type shows), so it's thrown me off a little.

Hello all, newbie here so forgive the basic question. I finally have a set of mics coming (CA-11 cards) that I can test my M10 with. I don't have a battery box yet, so I will be plugging them directly into the device for now. Am I right in thinking I should use the mic in port with plug in power enabled? Or should it be the line in port instead? I read that the mic in port should be used more if it's a quieter/acoustic type set (I typically go to quite loud indie/rock type shows), so it's thrown me off a little.

Correct: If you don't have a battery box, you need to go Mic In with plug-in power, or the mics will just sit there unpowered and not do anything.

Once you do get a battery box, you can leave PIP off and choose between the more sensitive mic port (for quieter shows) and the less sensitive line in port (for louder ones).

If you mostly go to loud indie/rock type shows, I would guess that you're going to be less than thrilled with the performance of those mics until you get a battery box to provide sufficient voltage.

I was tempted to start another Sony M-10 thread, because having four or five at the same time makes so much more sense. But, its been awhile since I logged on here, and actually was double shocked to learn two things:

(1) That Sony has discontinued the World's best pocket recorder. I have two but then again, I simply don't understand why a company would discontinue such a great little unit.

(2) Putting aside the corporate decision to discontinue it, not having a replacement for this market seems silly. Will I have to get a third unit? Jeez.

(1) That Sony has discontinued the World's best pocket recorder. I have two but then again, I simply don't understand why a company would discontinue such a great little unit.

(2) Putting aside the corporate decision to discontinue it, not having a replacement for this market seems silly. Will I have to get a third unit? Jeez.

Agreed on both points, but maybe it wasn't selling well anymore on a large scale, despite its huge popularity here. There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50. Compared to the M10, it's also a whole lot more money for only adding a new DAC capable of DSD and 192kHz recording. It's hard to imagine that unit is flying off the shelves though, considering its high price for rather limited functionality compared to competition from other brands.

By every appearance, Sony is abandoning this market segment. In contrast, Tascam is saturating the hell out of it.

There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50.

I think it's more likely the replacement for their flagship PCM-D1.

The D100 is the D50 replacement!!

I don't agree.

Visual comparison backs it up. Also, several comparison pix between D50 and D100 here (http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6c9a89b00101m2fh.html). Not that it matters; we want them to make an M10 successor.

I use my D100 for recording nature and soundscapes, and the main difference for me over the D50 (which I also own) is the microphones. Much improved, and more similar to the D1, so I can see where dogmusic is coming from.

The D100 might be more similar in looks to the D50, and the brochure might say it's the successor to the D50 but by then the D1 had long since been discontinued. If I owned the D50 and the D1, it's the latter I would have sold when I bought the D100.

M10 has been a rock solid performer over the last 10 years. I made some brilliant recordings with it. It will never leave my bag.

D100, however, steps it up in sound, but with a big cost. Very transparent, clean sounding. No exaggerated low freqs. Quieter than a whisper. It's hard for me to let go. I sold it once and I hated myself for it. Now I have one again.

D100 might offer a lot frills, but I buy these things for the sound. D100 doesn't suck in that category... :shrug:

I use my D100 for recording nature and soundscapes, and the main difference for me over the D50 (which I also own) is the microphones. Much improved, and more similar to the D1, so I can see where dogmusic is coming from.

The D100 might be more similar in looks to the D50, and the brochure might say it's the successor to the D50 but by then the D1 had long since been discontinued. If I owned the D50 and the D1, it's the latter I would have sold when I bought the D100.

I agree wholeheartedly.

From the review of the D100 in Sound on Sound, comparing it to the D50:

"The designers ... added custom-designed electret mics that can handle higher SPLs (128dB) and have 50 percent larger capsules, matching those of their high-end D1 model."

There's a better visual comparison in the photo below. Once you deduct the D1's lucious VU meters, there's not much difference in size between the three units. But you can easily see how much larger the D100's (and the D1's) mics are relative to the D50.

The D100 is a very much improved recorder over the D50 (which I own and love) in more ways than just "independent channel gain, takes SDHC cards, records DSD and PCM 24/192". The same SOS review says Sony "isolated the power supply to each circuit section, for example, and selected components specifically to reduce jitter and noise, resulting in far lower harmonic distortion figures." They also considerably upgraded the preamps and AD/DA converters, gave it 32GB internal memory, 5V plug-in-power, larger screen and a unique limiter.

Concerning the question why Sony discontinued the m10 despite its stellar reputation here, I happened to notice a press conference photo today. The reporters were using their phones to record the conference. So that could be why Sony discontinued what we regard as a terrific recorder.

Concerning the question why Sony discontinued the m10 despite its stellar reputation here, I happened to notice a press conference photo today. The reporters were using their phones to record the conference. So that could be why Sony discontinued what we regard as a terrific recorder.

And it doesn't give me hope that we will see a replacement.

Again the Iphone is taking over everything.I'm glad that I still use my simple Tracfone.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there. We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit. B&H confirmed my order, charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

I just got a refund toady and I was the 1st person to post that they were listed as available on the website I was h0lding out hope that they had at least 1 since I got charged but its clear now it was an error on their website.

I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there. We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit. B&H confirmed my order, charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.

I'm not familiar with the V3; does it have variable output gain? That would make the level matching you're trying to do a bit tricky, unless you know exactly what the output level of the V3 is. Maybe that's why your level is a bit lower, if your V3 is putting out a slightly hotter signal. Here's some good info: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471)

Apologies if you know this already, but there's really no such thing as "unity gain" between these two pieces of equipment. I just think of it as good gain staging. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471)

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there. We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit. B&H confirmed my order, charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

Really unfortunate to hear about the situation with Pro Sound and the not-really-there M10. I've experienced this with other, smaller vendors before who have an item for sale on their website and the order goes through, only to be contacted later to say that the item never was in stock. That was with small accessories though; not something like this.

So at this point, I think it's safe to say that any vendor claiming to have M10s for sale should be met with extreme skepticism. We don't know when Sony actually stopped manufacturing them and how many unsold units (if any) are sitting in warehouses. You'd think that electronic stocking systems would take care of alerting potential buyers of an item being out of stock though.

I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there. We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit. B&H confirmed my order, charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad. Never again.

If this is true, I will have to dispute the charge with my CC company

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: old and in the way on February 13, 2017, 01:11:24 PM

it took awhile but pro sound refunded my paypal and they got it back to me . A used m10 came up at guitar center for 199.00 . i snagged it and its like new. Pro sound has a good reputation and im sure they dont want a bad rap .i'm planning on getting a sonosax sxr4+ soon and the price they quoted is really nice. they screwed up but then s--t happens.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there. We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit. B&H confirmed my order, charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad. Never again.

If this is true, I will have to dispute the charge with my CC company

When I did that they refunded my money despite the fact that the big screen TV they had mis-shipped had been received back to their inventory for 2 weeks. The TV was sent by some ground freight company rather than Fedex Ground and this place could only deliver M-F 9 to 5 and would not provide an approximate time or I could arrange for pickup M-F 9 to 5. I had waited for them once by working at home and they told me they had a truck problem and couldn't deliver but could reschedule. I told them to keep their TV at that point and by them prices had dropped so I actually paid less 6 weeks later.

After the poor service by B&H I decided they would never get my business again and seeing the debacle with the M-10's further justifies by decision.

I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there. We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit. B&H confirmed my order, charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

I thought the problem was with PROSOUND not B & H ?

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad. Never again.

If this is true, I will have to dispute the charge with my CC company

When I did that they refunded my money despite the fact that the big screen TV they had mis-shipped had been received back to their inventory for 2 weeks. The TV was sent by some ground freight company rather than Fedex Ground and this place could only deliver M-F 9 to 5 and would not provide an approximate time or I could arrange for pickup M-F 9 to 5. I had waited for them once by working at home and they told me they had a truck problem and couldn't deliver but could reschedule. I told them to keep their TV at that point and by them prices had dropped so I actually paid less 6 weeks later.

After the poor service by B&H I decided they would never get my business again and seeing the debacle with the M-10's further justifies by decision.

Good God this thing is becoming more of a nuisance than anything. I keep trying to give it more chances to no avail.

I have been using the M-10 as my >:D recorder and every time I go out with it I have different problems. Mostly what I presumed to be user error but now am unsure.

Last night I went out to record a hip hop gig. I have popped in what I thought was a fresh set of Eneloops AA and about half way through a 5 hour night I notice that the batteries are sinking fast. There were A LOT of DJ's in between short hip hop acts so I shut the recorder down a couple of times and just skipped the DJ crap.

Now this morning I go onto my SD card and only see 2 files but one of them is the main act so I am thinking this is OK since that is why I went in the 1st place. I plug the USB cable in and see the rest of the early files on the internal memory.

When powering the unit down why would it revert from internal to SD card? I figured it might be the other way around but I had all setting triple checked before heading out for the evening and it was SET TO RUN ON THE MEMORY CARD.

Second issue was that even though I had levels peaking around -6 I have a squared off wave form. I have yet to look at the limiter setting but is it possible that this turned on via one of my reboots? This is fu%^ing crazy. I just need a small bit bucket dammit. :angry3:

I run the limiter on my m10 approximately 100% of the time and squared off waves at -6 dB does not sound like anything I recognize.

I just powered mine down and up a couple times, once set for memory card and once set for internal, and power cycling did not affect the memory setting on my main unit (the one where the display isn't cracked!) Note that the machine will idle for weeks without draining the batteries - I typically only power cycle when changing batteries. I also don't think I've formatted my SD card for 4-5 years, I just delete files and empty the trash on my mac.

Sounds like yours might be messed up? :-[

PS the zipper on my Sony case that I sent in the UPC code for JUST lost a tooth just now. :'(

Good God this thing is becoming more of a nuisance than anything. I keep trying to give it more chances to no avail.

I have been using the M-10 as my >:D recorder and every time I go out with it I have different problems. Mostly what I presumed to be user error but now am unsure.

Last night I went out to record a hip hop gig. I have popped in what I thought was a fresh set of Eneloops AA and about half way through a 5 hour night I notice that the batteries are sinking fast. There were A LOT of DJ's in between short hip hop acts so I shut the recorder down a couple of times and just skipped the DJ crap.

Now this morning I go onto my SD card and only see 2 files but one of them is the main act so I am thinking this is OK since that is why I went in the 1st place. I plug the USB cable in and see the rest of the early files on the internal memory.

When powering the unit down why would it revert from internal to SD card? I figured it might be the other way around but I had all setting triple checked before heading out for the evening and it was SET TO RUN ON THE MEMORY CARD.

Second issue was that even though I had levels peaking around -6 I have a squared off wave form. I have yet to look at the limiter setting but is it possible that this turned on via one of my reboots? This is fu%^ing crazy. I just need a small bit bucket dammit. :angry3:

If you want to get rid of that flaky POS I'll make the ultimate sacrifice and take it off your hands....... :smash: :smash:

It's also possible that the concert sound itself was drastically limited and squared off! But you'd see analog fuzzies on your recording from those square waves distorting the speakers and traveling through the air...

I think that I may have just found the culprit. It is brickwalling caused by the Tinybox. I am pretty sure mine was HIGH and it was a really loud rap concert. I bet I overloaded it.

I have found that I need to run on LOW for loud, not even the loudest, concerts. I run at 24 bit to get some headroom, and crank the M10 almost all the way up generally. Only the very loudest of shows will go over on Tinybox LOW + M10 cranked for me. I had realized that I was getting distortion on too many shows using the MED setting, let alone the HIGH setting. I wish I could use MED more often but you usually don't have much of a clue how much bass will be in the mix before the music starts.

I think that I may have just found the culprit. It is brickwalling caused by the Tinybox. I am pretty sure mine was HIGH and it was a really loud rap concert. I bet I overloaded it.

I have found that I need to run on LOW for loud, not even the loudest, concerts. I run at 24 bit to get some headroom, and crank the M10 almost all the way up generally. Only the very loudest of shows will go over on Tinybox LOW + M10 cranked for me. I had realized that I was getting distortion on too many shows using the MED setting, let alone the HIGH setting. I wish I could use MED more often but you usually don't have much of a clue how much bass will be in the mix before the music starts.

I'm pretty sure this was the problem now. I just popped open a CCM4>Tinybox>M10 recording I made at Charlotte Phish from back in 2012 and the end of the show went over too and I think that I had it set at MED. I normally record pretty quiet acoustic stuff which is why I likely had it set higher for Twista.

I was wondering if the remote port on the Sony PCM-M10 can be used as a lanc port? The PCM-M10 comes with a remote that has a 2.5mm/TRRS connector. Lanc cables tend to be 2.5mm/TRS types from what I can tell. Does anyone know if it's possible?

Concerning the battery drain, is the m10 set to "nimh"? Long shot, I know. Weird stuff happening to yours, my experience matches others. No issues whatsoever.

The M10 is battery savy compared to the R09hr.I use the same rechargeable batteries and never had issues of running flat in middle of recordings.Most live recordings I do run 2 1/2 to 3/1/2 hours long.Since running time info is different from everybody here .The best thing to do is run a test of your own is let it record something not important like the radio and let the fully charged batteries run flat.The time length will be known with the full length of what was recorded.You always can delete the test file unless you heard something interesting that was recorded from the radio.

(1) That Sony has discontinued the World's best pocket recorder. I have two but then again, I simply don't understand why a company would discontinue such a great little unit.

(2) Putting aside the corporate decision to discontinue it, not having a replacement for this market seems silly. Will I have to get a third unit? Jeez.

I very much suspect they discontinued the M10 because it was just a bit too good for something at that price, and it was disrupting Sony's sales and pricing model. If everybody was buying the M10 and attaching it to external mics, instead of shelling out the cash for Sony's premium models, Sony had to take action. Simply adding $200 to the RRP would have caused more hassle and negative publicity than anyone wanted, so the alternative was to discontinue and make sure the replacement wouldn't be useable in the same way.

Another possible theory is that Sony's Sales and Marketing department is staggeringly incompetent and didn't realise how many people used this unit. Considering how successful Sony is, I don't think that can be the case.

Hi to all!I'm new to the game, hopefully starting with a PCM-M10 if I manage to buy one.I've read dozens of posts in these threads, but maybe with some questions I can find answers easily.- What is the best windshield for the PCM-M10? I can't find the Sony one anymore, but online there are for exmaple Rycote 055442, Gutmann MWS-M10, Movo WS-R10/Movo WST-R10....of course the Rycote is more expensive, is it worth the money?- What about the batteries? Does the PCM-M10 work with the modern rechargeable lithium ones (like these SOEKAVIA Rechargeable Lithium Polymer 1.5V Battery https://i.imgur.com/9UsHGz2.jpg) or better stay with the normal Ni-Mh?

Hi to all!I'm new to the game, hopefully starting with a PCM-M10 if I manage to buy one.I've read dozens of posts in these threads, but maybe with some questions I can find answers easily.- What is the best windshield for the PCM-M10? I can't find the Sony one anymore, but online there are for exmaple Rycote 055442, Gutmann MWS-M10, Movo WS-R10/Movo WST-R10....of course the Rycote is more expensive, is it worth the money?- What about the batteries? Does the PCM-M10 work with the modern rechargeable lithium ones (like these SOEKAVIA Rechargeable Lithium Polymer 1.5V Battery https://i.imgur.com/9UsHGz2.jpg) or better stay with the normal Ni-Mh?

Thank you guys!

As great as the M10 is, unless you're going to be recording quiet acoustic music, you're going to want some external mics. If you're planning on running internals, you're probably going to be better off with another deck. That being said, I would think the Movo's are going to give you the best bang for the buck. I use a set on my AT4041's and love 'em. I wouldn't waste the money on the Rycote when the M10's mics aren't that great to begin with.

You should be able to grab a set of Church mics or AT853's and a battery box pretty cheap. And make much better recordings. Just my $0.02.

You are right, in my post I forgot to specify that I will use the internal mics for field recording (so quiet nature sounds)...here comes the question about the windshield :facepalm:Thanks anyway, I'm still deciding what external mics :cheers:

You are right, in my post I forgot to specify that I will use the internal mics for field recording (so quiet nature sounds)...here comes the question about the windshield :facepalm:Thanks anyway, I'm still deciding what external mics :cheers:

Get some mics with Primo EM172 capsules. They are superb low noise, high sensitivity capsules popular for nature field recordings.

Hi to all!I'm new to the game, hopefully starting with a PCM-M10 if I manage to buy one....

A few thoughts if you're recording nature sounds...

The EM172 capsules are a great suggestion, and they're fairly low noise (14dBA iirc). If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can buy the capsules cheaply and make up your own external mics which will power from the M10's "plug-in-power" just fine.

Interestingly though, the M10's internal mics are themselves actually EM172 omni capsules! The problem is that they're mounted too close together to give much spatial effect. One simple DIY approach to improving matters is to make some kind of baffle to put between them. There are a few references to this online if you search. I used a block of closed cell foam (about 4" square and 1" thick), with a central slit to push over the M10. This arrangement is rather fiddly to use in earnest in the field, and you then need to fashion some kind of windshield fo fit over it all, but it helps to widen the image by reducing the correlation between the mic signals, and it makes for some interesting experiments.

For recording quiet nature you really have to keep some distance between yourself and the mics, as they really will pick up every breath & rustle of clothing. Miniature tabletop tripods are useful, especially the ones with the flexible legs which can be bent around objects, as are the various types of clamp often sold for camera mounting

If you buy one of the furry windshields made specifically for the M10, you'll be stuck with the mics as they are with no baffle. I'm not sure there's much practical difference between the brands as, when fitted, you have the option of a) having them fall off or b) covering the display! The M10 isn't made for such things in the first place and there's no proper means of attachment. Even the Rycote mini-windjammer which I used was quite useless from a practical standpoint. I found the best option was the aforementioned foam baffle with an old knitted woolen hat pulled over the whole machine! The baffle also acts as a spacer to keep the fabric away from the mics. Use a dark coloured hat (or knit your own in a camo pattern) and it's ideal for leaving in the woods...

As for batteries, don't bother with the fancy lithium ones. A couple of Eneloops, or anything 2000mAh+ will power the thing for ever.

The M10 is a great little recorder to keep with you in case an interesting soundscape comes up. Just don't leave it out in the rain like i did with mine :(

I would certainly not purport that this is the BEST option but I believe it is an effective solution, and certainly a good value if it works for you.

I use a regular cheap foam "Clown Nose" windscreen as a cap for the m10. If you want to see the meters, you have to place it just right. I've found that the built-in omni mics are not overly wind sensitive and so this has worked for me when I've used it. They are available in many colors, mine is black.

- What is the best windshield for the PCM-M10? I can't find the Sony one anymore, but online there are for exmaple Rycote 055442, Gutmann MWS-M10, Movo WS-R10/Movo WST-R10....of course the Rycote is more expensive, is it worth the money?

The EM172 capsules are a great suggestion, and they're fairly low noise (14dBA iirc). If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can buy the capsules cheaply and make up your own external mics which will power from the M10's "plug-in-power" just fine.

Interestingly though, the M10's internal mics are themselves actually EM172 omni capsules! The problem is that they're mounted too close together to give much spatial effect. One simple DIY approach to improving matters is to make some kind of baffle to put between them. There are a few references to this online if you search. I used a block of closed cell foam (about 4" square and 1" thick), with a central slit to push over the M10. This arrangement is rather fiddly to use in earnest in the field, and you then need to fashion some kind of windshield fo fit over it all, but it helps to widen the image by reducing the correlation between the mic signals, and it makes for some interesting experiments.

For recording quiet nature you really have to keep some distance between yourself and the mics, as they really will pick up every breath & rustle of clothing. Miniature tabletop tripods are useful, especially the ones with the flexible legs which can be bent around objects, as are the various types of clamp often sold for camera mounting

If you buy one of the furry windshields made specifically for the M10, you'll be stuck with the mics as they are with no baffle. I'm not sure there's much practical difference between the brands as, when fitted, you have the option of a) having them fall off or b) covering the display! The M10 isn't made for such things in the first place and there's no proper means of attachment. Even the Rycote mini-windjammer which I used was quite useless from a practical standpoint. I found the best option was the aforementioned foam baffle with an old knitted woolen hat pulled over the whole machine! The baffle also acts as a spacer to keep the fabric away from the mics. Use a dark coloured hat (or knit your own in a camo pattern) and it's ideal for leaving in the woods...

As for batteries, don't bother with the fancy lithium ones. A couple of Eneloops, or anything 2000mAh+ will power the thing for ever.

The M10 is a great little recorder to keep with you in case an interesting soundscape comes up. Just don't leave it out in the rain like i did with mine :(

Great post. I never realised the M10 capsules were the EM172's, that explains their good overall low noise performance. I've got some sheets of 1cm neoprene foam which I'm now going to experiment with to make a baffle. :)

I would still recommend making some mics with the capsules which would be very cheap, but if you're not handy with a soldering iron you can get get them made up. I'm in the UK and use this company, but I notice they deliver worldwide:

http://micbooster.com/10-clippy-em172-microphones

The advantage of having them separate is that they can give a better stereo separation. Also the recommended voltage range is 3v-10v and the M10 is going to be supplying 3v, if you can add a battery box you will get better performance and lower noise floor. I have had the external mics out in a forest all night, with my M10 and battery box in a waterproof container.

When using my M10 in the field I use the same Rycote windjammer that I use on my Sony D100. It's larger and covers the whole unit, and I hold it in place with an elastic band, but I find it performs much better than when I just try and cover the mics.

Perhaps redundant to ask here, but does anyone know if any inside info if Sony plans to replace the M10 with anything since they discontinued it? I wouldn't mind if they made a nice recorder the size of the Olympus LS-P2, just as long as it can handle extremely loud volumes through the internal and external mics with the battery boxes.

The M10 is a great machine. Such a shame that it's a legacy product now.

So I picked up one of these as people seem to be dumping them on ebay lately. I've been using my DR05 and DR22WL for a couple of years and was surprised how small this really is. I've always wondered if anyone mark tracks as they record?

Hi guys and gals.Happy holidays .I'm glad that the M10 thread is still alive.

I dont use the mark track feature much on the M10 as much I use the split track feature on my R09HR.

More likely I never mark or split tracks on live recordings.But I do use the split track feature on radio airchecking during ads and voice recordings to control it not to record big file sizes as I dont want it to split the file on its own when it hits its limit.

I used to use track marking on various recorders in conjunction with editing afterwards in Reaper - but these were long classical recordings for radio broadcast often on a tight schedule, so knowing where to go to in order to take out tuning, coughs, etc etc as quickly as possible was important. Saved a lot of time. So - depends what you are doing and why.

Does anyone know how the M10's internal preamps compare to the h4n pro? I run CA14>Ugly Battery Box (no gain)>h4n pro and enjoy the pulls... I'm wondering about switching out the h4n pro for an m10 though, for convenience and size reduction.

I know the M10's better than the standard H4n's, but what about the h4n pro? (which I believe uses the same internal preamps as the h5)

Edit: Nevermind :) Did some comparisons by searching the archive for "m10 ca14 ubb", "m10 ca14" (to check out shows w/ a preamp) and then compared a few of both of those shows to my pulls- the h4n pro preamps are noticeably quieter but nothing groundbreaking, especially during the actual songs for rock shows (I had to listen to quiet portions to really get a sense of the difference)