Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey

Just an FYI, but I'm writing a 6 page paper for my American Cinema/American Culture class about Stanley Kubrick and 2001.and a page+ will be about "Also Sprach Zarathustra" Music, Nietzsche and the theme of the movie.

I'll be happy to post either that page or the whole paper here if anyone is interested...

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey

OK I probably won't be a page because I only got about 3 paragraphs worth done in my rough version of that section, but any way here what I've got so far. Let me know if I need to make it any clearer. Thanks.

To me Stanley Kubrick made a Science-Fiction film like nobody else would have or could have made in the late sixties. He blended reality with philosophy to tell his story about the evolution of man. Kubrick used Nietzsche’s “Also Sprach Zarathustra” and Richard Strauss’ musical motif “Thus Spoke Zarathustra,” which was based on Nietzsche’s story, to help him convey the theme of his sci-fi epic 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Nietzsche’s “Also Sprach Zarathustra” tells the story of the philosophical evolution of man. It begins with a child that becomes a camel and the burdens of the world a placed on the camel’s back. When the camel cannot bear any more burdens it is then transformed into a lion. The lion then battles a dragon named “Thou Shalt,” which represents the rules of civilization. Once the dragon is defeated the lion is transformed again into a pure child, Nietzsche’s Superman. [Campbell]

In 2001: A Space Odyssey the camel stage is represented by the ape-men developing technology to bare the burdens of life. The Lions stage is man leaving earth and fighting the dragon named HAL, which is ruled by a set of “Thou Shalt” rules in the form of computer code. Once HAL is defeated Dave Bowman is transformed into the Star Child, a form of man that no longer needs technology, which represents Nietzsche’s Superman. Stanley Kubrick used the musical motif “Thus Spoke Zarathustra” at specific point in the film to emphasize the literal evolution of man

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey

I just heard this commentary and enjoyed it.

It is ironic, though, that at one point you guys are saying how technological progress is accelerating, and yet not one aspect of the transport technology predicted by the movie has come to pass. There is no supersonic travel, let alone space travel. There is no space hotel. No moon base. No manned missions to Jupiter. In 2012, America can't even launch a person into space anymore. Transport technology has flatlined.... no...regressed(!)....in 40 years since Apollo was cancelled and the Concorde cancelled.

But transport (and AI and robotics and alternative energy and fusion and curing diseases) have stalled (or have been underwhelming at best) in the past few decades.

Compared to the late Victorian times (horse, sail, steam, internal combustion engine, powered flight, jet, rocket), our generation has seen no next-level of transport (which would be supersonic travel).

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey

Zap is my new favorite forumer. His title will be changed as a result.

"Most people don't even know what sysadmins do, but trust me, if they all took a lunch break at the same time they wouldn't make it to the deli before you ran out of bullets protecting your canned goods from roving bands of mutants."

Regarding Hal's personal brand of crazy, 2010 notwithstanding, I read Hal's crazy as being a result of him getting the whole thing. Mr. Super Computer not only knew what the mission was about but understood what the monolith was and what it meant to mankind and as such he didn't want to chance humans screwing it up but not realizing that it doesn't work if you don't bring at least one human along.

Edit: I'm still watching the commentary but it sounds like you guys made the same point. Nevermind.

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey

Ok, nothing at all to do with the movie but I just watched the SNL 40th anniversary special and was listening to this commentary again the next day. Trey mentioned in passing that he knew Phil Hartman. I was curious if Trey had any Phil Hartman stories or at least the story of how he knew him. He was always one of my favorite cast members when I was younger so I was just curious.

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey

I mentioned Phil in the 2001 commentary?

Well, okay...

In the mid-80's I ran lights at the Groundling Theater, an improv group that was (and is) one of the sources Lorne Michaels would scout for potential new cast members for SNL. So every summer Lorne would come to town and watch the show from the very back of the theater, as quietly and anonymously as possible. Of course he wouldn't stand up at the end of the show and yell "I want THAT one!". He'd just leave and whoever he liked would get contacted and maybe do a formal audition... and if all went well - boom, SNL.

The total Groundling cast is larger than the actual number of people performing any given night, because people get other gigs and aren't always available on show nights. In 1985 Phil Hartman and Jon Lovitz were in the cast, along with Kathy Griffin and many other talented folks - but in my opinion Phil was far and away the best. Just freakin' brilliant, both in his scripted sketches and at improv. And a genuinely nice guy.

Phil was getting small parts in movies and tv so he wasn't always there - but when he was, I always knew it would be a good night. Meanwhile, Lovitz WAS always there, because what else was THAT guy gonna do?

So at some point Lorne came and did his annual shopping trip. A few months went by, and it dawned on me that Lovitz hadn't been around for a while. I remember asking the sound operator "Where has Lovitz been lately?" and she looked at me like I was insane and said "He's on Saturday Night Live now!" Which I honestly didn't know - I hadn't been watching the new season.

And I said "Are you telling me that Lorne Michaels came here...and he saw Phil Hartman and Kathy Griffin and (several other names)... AND HE PICKED LOVITZ?"

To Lovitz's credit he did great that season - '85 was that very weird year when instead of comedians the cast was mostly actors (Robert Downey Jr., Anthony Hall, Joan Cusack, Randy Quaid... seriously, that was a thing that happened) and in that crowd Lovitz was the standout. Pretty soon "Yeah, that's the ticket!" was a national catchphrase. Which I suspect was what Lorne spotted, because Lovitz's "Liar" character was one he'd been doing at the Groundlings for ages. And Jon and Phil were close, so for all I know Lovitz might have spent that season saying "next year you gotta get Phil in here". Meanwhile Phil continued to perform at the Groundlings and be brilliant at it.

And so, a year goes by. Almost everybody from the '85 SNL season got fired, only Lovitz and Nora Dunn and Dennis Miller survived. And Lorne went shopping again.

On show nights before the show started, I would sit on a couch just inside the dressing room entrance, because the cast would have new pieces and we'd discuss what they needed from the lighting. (Also because it was a hilarious place to be.) I remember the night when Phil walked into the dressing room and said "Well, who wants to congratulate the newest cast member of Saturday Night Live?"

I was right there, so I got to be the first person to shake his hand.

And then off he went to New York and there ya go.

PS. A year or two later I was in New York - I don't even remember why, it was just for maybe two days. By this point Phil was a rockstar, of course. Just for the hell of it, I looked up the number for 30 Rock, and I dialed it and asked for Studio 8H, and it started ringing. Someone answered and I said, is Phil Hartman available? They put the phone down awhile and then came back and said "no, he's not here right now." And I said "Well, tell him Trey Stokes called, I'm in town and wanted to say hi". I gave the hotel number where I was and hung up. And then went back to LA and forgot about it, because obviously nothing was gonna come from that. But it was hilarious to me that you could just call for Phil Hartman at Studio 8H and somebody would actually go look for him.

Later that year around Christmastime I'm at the Groundlings on show night as usual, sitting on my dressing room couch - and Phil walks in unannounced. SNL's on hiatus, he's home for the holidays and he's dropped in to say hi to the old gang.

He sees me sitting there and says "Oh hey, Trey - got your message and called you back, but the hotel said you'd checked out already. Sorry I missed you!"

That's who that guy was.

Addendum: If you haven't seen this clip of Phil's SNL audition, here you go. So this is the guy I knew, and a lot of this material is excerpts from pieces I saw him do a dozen times at the Groundlings. His "Jack Nicholson's Hamlet" was one of my faves.