The above quote was from a preacher I can't remember right now. Some thoughts have been on my mind for a while and what has slowly brought this on, could be the passing of years, surmounting/thriving over health concerns, recently moving to another home...deciding what to take, what to let go, and just seeing too many I knew in the magic history.collecting world pass away, their collections acquired or dispersed to others, with varying levels of appropriateness and consideration. (Seems like a ritual is now to first read their obit in a magic magazine, (maybe) and a few months later, see an ad selling their collection by one of the magic auction dealers.) I have been a collector/accumulator all my life, and lately have been wondering, "What is the point?" and "If there is one, why?" When I recently moved, HUNDREDS of file/banker boxes were packed and as I saw this mass in front of me, I asked, "What have I done?!" I know of some collectors who have very specific instructions and wishes for what do, when they have passed on. Surprisingly, there are others,(including some major collectors) who never made their desires clear. A few, not wanting to burden their families with dealing with it, (or from having them being taken advantage of or just trashing it.) sold their collections in their lifetime. (The most wonderful woman in the world has told me if she has to decide what to do with my collections, she will call a magic friend of mine, tell him to take whatever, and then she will light a match!)

Recently, an acquaintance died who had a an interest in different fields including magic, had died broke, leaving those behind, to deal with his bills and "stuff" I offered to go and help identify items, with suggestions where/how to sell them, and when I walked, (sideways) thru the door, was stunned to see the home DEVASTATED from floor to ceiling with his stuff. It looked exactly like those "Hoarder" shows you see on TV...piles and stacks everywhere spilling out to the backyard. The items I could find under all that were of some value, most of little/no resell value. This hoarder/collector had left nothing but others having decide how much to pay to clear it out. (Having left with no money or caring family, two magic friends quietly scattered his ashes in the gardens of The Magic Castle.)

I was at a magic auction and seated next to each other, where two major collectors actively bidding on items to add their already huge collections. One was connected to life-support tubes, the other with a terminal debilitating illness, was in a wheel chair that he fell out of while bidding. After the auction, I explained what I saw to another collector and said, "It's insane, the futility of it all." "What's the point?" He replied, "It's what keeps them going." Another said it wasn't about magic stuff, but getting older, seeing those you know and care about, passing on and gone.

Yes, I still have my interest in stuff, but now, when I see something that attracts me, I ask: Where am I going to put it, why do I want it, do I really need it, and what's the point?

I remember, (and anyone who was there will ever forget it) hearing the late Dr. Albo, speaking a few months before he died, spoke of how he was cruelly taken advantage of, and a prized collection of a lifetime, taken from his home. Speaking as Lou Gehrig did knowing he was dying, he noting what was no longer his, but paid tribute and gratitude of his family and many friends from different walks of life, who had made a positive difference in his life. Which utlimately is what mattered.

Rabbi Harold Kushner wrote, the acquisitions of wealth, fame, and power, are temporal and ultimately hollow. How you know your life has mattered, what will last, is those who you were able benefit and help along the way in your lifetime.

End of sermon and rant. Has any of this made sense? What do you think?

When I was living in London, England in the mid-seventies as a poor, impoverished grad student, I went to a Magic Circle auction. One of the items was a complete file of The Gen in a deteriorating cardboard box. Nobody was bidding on it, ando I had a few pounds and put bids in--but there was one porcine older gentlemen who just topped every bid I made--he soon outbid me.

After the auction, I went over to congratulate him on his bid and tell him it was a great buy, the magazine was wonderful (I had a few copies). He said, he knew that, he already had three complete files. For the rest of the time I was in London, whenever the occasion arose that I could fool this pig with a trick, I did (it was easy) and then I refused to explain the method. Creative revenge.

I started divesting myself of items years ago. It was pretty simple: I just looked at the items and thought, "Am I ever going to read this book again? No. Am I ever going to play with this item again? No." And off they went.

Owning too much becomes a burden. I shed that burden, and will continue to do so until I have nothing left when I die except underwear and socks.

Diego wrote:I remember, (and anyone who was there will ever forget it) hearing the late Dr. Albo, speaking a few months before he died, spoke of how he was cruelly taken advantage of, and a prized collection of a lifetime, taken from his home.

The individual who did that to Dr. Albo is a big name in magic and should be very ashamed of that.

Diego wrote:I remember, (and anyone who was there will ever forget it) hearing the late Dr. Albo, speaking a few months before he died, spoke of how he was cruelly taken advantage of, and a prized collection of a lifetime, taken from his home.

The individual who did that to Dr. Albo is a big name in magic and should be very ashamed of that. As for collecting magic:

“The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for the things it has forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made monstrous and unlawful.”

Let's get this business with Albo out of the way: he did not read the contract he signed, and he admitted that when he spoke. It very clearly outlined the deal, and Albo did not pay attention to that. In addition, when the collection was shipped, numerous items that were supposed to be part of the deal (and had been listed) were missing. MANY items.

So you folks only know one side of a story most of you have heard second hand.

I have certain magic items that I enjoy collecting. However, when I get my priorities skewed, my job helps knock some sense into me: I've never had anyone who was busy dying ask to see their Sherwood Cups one last time or wish they had spent just a little more time at the office.

Two of my favorite quotes on this topic:

"It's just paper." -- Ton Onosaka (speaking of money in Genii)

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal."-- Matthew 6:19-20 (ESV)

This is a story that an acquaintance told me. There was a collector who desperately wanted something my friend had. My friend refused to sell. The collector was insistent to the point of being obnoxious (actually, the guy was famous for being obnoxious).

My friend gets a phone call: it's the collector calling (he claims) from a hospital, minutes before he is to undergo some serious surgery that (he claims) he might not survive. He wants the item. It may be the last thing he ever collects. Please tell me I can have it, so if I die at least I'll die knowing it was mine.

My friend said no.

The collector survived the surgery, but a few years ago he finally went to that big magic auction in the sky.

It's a great post by Diego - I have built up a modest magic library over the years (in reality, very small beer compared to the many voracious collectors out there) and have often wondered 'what's the point?', 'what is to be done with it?', 'is now the time for it to contract rather than expand further?'

I also wonder if the hard-core magic collectors out there are slowly diminishing in number or if there is likely to be a new generation of mega-collectors on the horizon.

What do you think will become of David Copperfield's massive collection when the time comes - auctioned? locked away in a vault for eternity? or will his missus simply get the house clearance guys in to take it away to the nearest dump?

Cheers

Andrew

P.S. Bob - from your last post but one I'm guessing you haven't yet managed to get over losing out on that file of The Gen. I think now is the time to let go and move on.

I'm fairly certain that David has made appropriate arrangements for his collection (which is The Metropolitan Museum of Art in the magic world) upon his demise.

It's easy to make fun of his accomplishment if you haven't seen it. It's remarkable, and no one else could have done it. Almost the entire history of magic lies in front of you, literally. It's staggering and I hope that some day, Andrew, you are able to see it.

Bob Farmer wrote:This is a story that an acquaintance told me. There was a collector who desperately wanted something my friend had. My friend refused to sell. The collector was insistent to the point of being obnoxious (actually, the guy was famous for being obnoxious).

My friend gets a phone call: it's the collector calling (he claims) from a hospital, minutes before he is to undergo some serious surgery that (he claims) he might not survive. He wants the item. It may be the last thing he ever collects. Please tell me I can have it, so if I die at least I'll die knowing it was mine.

My friend said no.

The collector survived the surgery, but a few years ago he finally went to that big magic auction in the sky.

Bob Farmer wrote:When I was living in London, England in the mid-seventies as a poor, impoverished grad student, I went to a Magic Circle auction. One of the items was a complete file of The Gen in a deteriorating cardboard box. Nobody was bidding on it, ando I had a few pounds and put bids in--but there was one porcine older gentlemen who just topped every bid I made--he soon outbid me.

After the auction, I went over to congratulate him on his bid and tell him it was a great buy, the magazine was wonderful (I had a few copies). He said, he knew that, he already had three complete files. For the rest of the time I was in London, whenever the occasion arose that I could fool this pig with a trick, I did (it was easy) and then I refused to explain the method. Creative revenge.

I was really hoping this story would end with, "so late one night I broke into his flat and slit his throat and with his blood, I wrote "BAMMO!" on the wall."

My father lived his whole life in Tennessee, except for a short while in Madisonville KY (where I was born). He managed a Kroger store there, and occasionally he would see scrip from coal mining companies in the cash drawers, when they had been accidentally accepted as coins. He started accumulating them, and his interest eventually changed into trade tokens from businesses from Tennessee. Every month, he'd go to the Nashville flea market looking for them. He'd haunt antique stores, and joined the local metal detector's club to buy the tokens that the members would find. Eventually, he accumulated several thousand pieces, probably the largest collection of Tennessee tokens that existed.

In 2005, he got leukemia, and it progressed to the point that we all knew it would not be cured. His token collection, that had occupied all his leisure time and money for the previous 40 years, became very unimportant. He gave Mom and me some vague suggestions as to what could be done with it. He died in 2006. Fortunately he left Mom in a position that she did not have to sell it to make ends meet, and so we didn't do much with it other than move it into her garage and my basement. He had many friends and acquaintances that he knew through token collecting. It was surprising how many, in the same card that expressed condolences, asked "what is happening to his collection?" A couple of them were a-holes about it.

Fortunately, tokens don't take up much room. The bulk of his collection fills a closet (the associated books and magazines, however, are another story . . . ). While I could take the trouble to get rid of them, the money that selling them would raise wouldn't make any difference in Mom's life, and it's hard for me to get rid of them knowing how much pleasure they gave him. In some ways selling them would be like getting rid of a piece of Dad.

On the other hand, my magic books are of no interest to anyone in my family and few of them have any significant value (anyone need a 20 year run of The Linking Ring? I didn't think so.). I expect a bonfire at the Mullins house soon after I pass.

It's a difficult thing trying to plan for succession of your magic collection, but it needs to be done. I've seen too many magicians' collections binned by families who can't be bothered to sort out the magic from in between the porno magazines they've just found in their beloved father's home. You need to plan and document your wishes, because you don't own the collection, you are merely a steward for a few happy years.I would say, don't be concerned about the eccentricities of collecting. Just make sure you use the collection to share knowledge with others; that is where its value lies.

These possessions everyone is so quick to contemn ... well, I've never had one rip me off or disappoint me or take advantage of me or try to stab me in the back. I've often smiled just at the sight of one, remembering good times.

I certainly wasn't making light of DC's collection, Richard, merely wondering if some of the 'super-collectors' will ultimately face the same dilemma as the little guys.

Possibly, possibly not.

To some, the acquiring and possessing is the key motivation - see some of the examples given above - what becomes of the collection when the time comes perhaps isn't considered to the same level of intensity.

There are quite a number of large collections. If arrangements have been made, they will be auctioned off. Eventually, because there are so many large collections, there will come a point of saturation among existing buyers.

Other collectors have made no provisions for their collections, though their families are well aware of the potential value. The will also likely be auctioned off.

In thinking about this, it's not too surprising that a lot of magicians have made no provisions for their magic stuff. According to many estimates, only about 50 to 55% of Americans have a will. Even less have an advance healthcare directive.

observer wrote:These possessions everyone is so quick to contemn ... well, I've never had one rip me off or disappoint me or take advantage of me or try to stab me in the back. I've often smiled just at the sight of one, remembering good times.

People, on the other hand ...

Agreed. It's not the possessions themselves that are the issue; rather, it's the sometimes maladaptive behavior displayed in the acquisition or Larfleezean hoarding of the items that can be problematic.

There are so many facets to collecting that there are probably as many answers to "what's the point" as there are collectors. The real problem is that, regardless of your own personal "point", it is easy to forget what that point is and become totally absorbed! The reason is that collecting - like so many other pleasures - is addictive. It's human nature to crave the things we enjoy and shun those that we don't. At the point collecting is no longer enjoyable or becomes a burden (on you or family / friends), that it the point to re-evaluate your "point".

Simple possession of an item is rarely the most important part of the pleasure collecting gives you. It's the story behind an item - its significance in your field of interest, its rarity or uniqueness, the hunt and eventual acquisition, etc. For example, on the latter point, how many people derive more pleasure from an item they have hunted down, almost missed and through fate have managed to finally acquire, rather than an item that presents itself in a glossy auction catalogue and it's simply a question of opening one's wallet wide enough?

One "point" of collecting that I don't think has been mentioned in the thread to date is "preservation". Preserving an item and its associated history. I might be wrong but I believe that is what David Copperfield is trying to do with his collection, which will remain in tact long after we are all gone. I was previously chastised on this forum for suggesting that David cannot know about all the items in his collection but I stand by that. Undoubtedly there are many he has a very personal connection to and knows intimately but with the sheer quantity (and diversity) of items in the collection it would be impossible to know the detail of every item. Copperfield has a very specific purpose to his collection in preserving the history of magic. It's a very laudable objective and one that will undoubtedly benefit magic in the future.

My personal vice is books and if you look back in history we know there are books that used to exist (as there are records) but apparently no longer do. They are lost forever. Many magic books are ephemeral. They may have been printed in hundreds, or even thousands, of copies at the time but over the years people have discarded them one at a time as irrelevant. Now, in many cases, only a handful of copies survive. If it weren't for collectors, many other books may now be lost or would be lost in the future. I'm sure the same could be said for other collectable items. Think posters, for example. Printed in their hundreds but designed purely for "in the moment" advertising. Most were destroyed within days of their first use. Photos exist showing theatres with posters outside them of which no known copies exist. Lost because no-one thought that maybe someday someone might be interested in something that to them - at the time - was but a passing irrelevance.

In the preservation of history, collectors do the world a favour. But it is easy to become so absorbed that you forget why you are even collecting in the first place. Stay focussed on both objective and content of your collection but also - most importantly - how that collecting fits in with your overall life. It may provide pleasure but is it to the detriment of anything else? There are things far more important in life.

OK, so that's all a bit philosophical. Time to depart and start reading the five books that arrived in the post today...and make room on the bookcase for the ones arriving soon. (PS There is another lesson in here...practice what you preach!)

jamessmith, I have been in David's museum with him (not on a tour) many times. He knows far more about more items than I expected. Does he know the specifics of everything? Obviously not.

I asked if he had anything on DeLand, for example, for the book I've been working on. He didn't know, so someone who works for him looked it up (the entire collection is in a database) and there was indeed a letter written by DeLand which, even better, had an unpublished trick in it. Just like Ken Klosterman, David learns more about the items of which he has little knowledge as others do research.

It's not like the end of Indiana Jones (itself an acknowledgement of a scene in Citizen Kane) where there is an entire warehouse filled with unopened crates. Considering the size of the original museum, the place was jam-packed with material on display. David was fairly conversant with all the material on view. That's why David has been engaged in a multi-year project to enlarge the museum to many times its original size, so that he can put the rest of it on display. It was enormous before, now it's gigantic.

I suppose my point is this: David knows the most about the enormous amount of items that are on display because he's looked at them and handled them so many times. The more that comes out of boxes, the more he will learn about the items just going on display.

My particular "vice" has been custom playing cards. The nice thing about that is that even when you go hog-wild (as I have done especially in the last several years) it doesn't take up much square footage. And, as is the case with books, there is a practical element, as long as you don't just leave them sealed in their cases, which I don't.

There is best selling book about "The Life Changing Magic of Tidying up", and the author often says to ask yourself, "Does it bring me joy?" What could be a great collection at one time, could become an albatross later.Part of it is enjoying, caring, preserving, archiving, restoring items....others it is a pain to care, preserve, archive, and restore items.

When I first met Bob Lund just a month after he had opened his museum, I alway remember him saying, "Even if the place doesn't make a dime, I have the world's greatest toy!" And he did. I was very happy and envious of Bob...not because he had such a large, valuable collection, but that he had created and lived in an environment of his own design and choosing. More than a collection, he had created a museum, a resource, that he had acquired, piece by piece, when magic collecting was a passion, hobby, fascination, before it became a market. (whether he would be happy with the state of his Museum today, I don't know.)

Still it was neat to see the Hofzinser card rise in the hands of the guy who built it - and Ramsay's wand in that collection ... then later on to see the copper and silver coins in a glass case lit by track lights at Neil Cee's...

I do not collect as a goal. It just seems to happen. My magic items merely accumulate. At first I acquired magic as tools in my performances. Books were bought for information as they still are. The only book regrets I have are the Albo books. When they were available, I was putting a couple guys through college. As for apparatus, I like to fix it up and move it on to someone who will use it. I hang on to items that I might someday use or want to play with to devise new methods/handling. An example: the last piece of magic that I bought was a Thornton windlass from Gabe's site. Supposedly it only required rethreading. Once I opened it, I discovered that the internal drum would not even turn! All of the original lube had dried into a very sticky goo. This was bought to use with a repro of a Karson Voodoo that I am making. I wanted it in primo condition. So, I disassembled, cleaned, relubed, and rethreaded the reel. It is at least as good as new now. I feel that it was a good purchase and that I have saved another magic item from the trash. Voodoo is well on the way now. Old magic can have a life beyond the shelf.

Some of us acquire magic to restore and use, some to admire and dust off now and then. In the end, it is just stuff. Most of my books and apparatus will be sold off by me before I am gone - hopefully. My younger son wants the books with fancy covers. He will get another box of them for Christmas and his birthday. As an artist, he appreciates the artwork and cares nothing about the magic info. It is all about someone getting enjoyment from the items.

As for the big collections, I like looking over items to see how builders in the past solved the problems. Such info leads to new and better magic items for the next generation. To me these big collections are reference libraries. I have never seen nor probably never will see the DC collection but all of magic owes him a debt of gratitude for getting it together in a safe place. It is his for now. I am not jealous. I am happy for him and appreciate what he has done. What he has planned for its future is his business. The one thing that I do know is that I would never leave my goodies to a local library or museum. They would be sold off as surplus at parking lot sales by staff who would not know the values. These treasures would be treated as "stuff" - for shame.

There are always two sides to a story. Doc did note he didn't bother to read nor recall the specifics of the contract, though he certainly knew the general parameters. He also noted that he was tardy in delivering items according to an agreed upon schedule.

The gist of the problem was that Doc felt, notwithstanding the contract, that he had an "understanding" with DC that many of the items would remain in San Fran while Doc wrote "another" volume on Apparatus. DC was generally agreeable to this, but, once it became apparent Doc's prognosis was grim, obviously it made sense to expedite the transfer of items while Doc could still oversee it, rather than dumping all that burden on Marge & others after he passed. But, Doc, between you and me, as long as he could breathe, always had "projects" he would contemplate, that's what kept him going, and I suspect DC also finally realized Doc was intellectually incapable of ever thinking he would "never" finish a desired project. (In fact, after his passing, with assistance from another, Marge did put out another tome that had Doc's work product all through it.) So, in essence, DC pulled the trigger and removed what had been (contractually) promised, rather than dealing with a potential nightmare after Doc's passing. He had every legal right under the contract to do this.

Of course, recourse to legal accordance is seldom emotionally satisfying to all the parties involved......just look at Divorce Court.....and if one is to be critical of DC in this matter, the focus should not lie on who had the better legal right, but, rather, under the circumstances, on whether or not DC exercised/demonstrated a sensitivity chip we would like to feel our magic heroes should possess. This is not the easy call those of us who loved & were befriend by Doc would like to think, for certainly even more items would have been "missing or the subject of misunderstanding" had DC waited till after Doc's passing to possess. There were discrepancies between inventory indexes before & after the final transfer(s), and while "explanations" have been proffered about this as well as about certain items that were "understood" to either be included in the sale & others that were to remain in the estate, those "facts" about same never were resolved.

I do not know DC as a friend, have only met & spoken to him a few times at events and there is no reason he would remember me, whereas I knew Doc for 45 years, as did many of us active in the "organized" magic collecting community. He was a treasure; but, in this matter, Richard's admonition is correct......it is a rush to judgment to solely find fault in DC's conduct, for this was a much more complex matter with nuisances that many outsiders, and certainly most who were present at Doc's talk at NEMCA, are not aware of.

Jim Riser wrote:...As for the big collections, I like looking over items to see how builders in the past solved the problems. Such info leads to new and better magic items for the next generation. To me these big collections are reference libraries...

That is a fascinating comment to me--I never considered this. Most of us are just there to "Oooh" and "Ahhh", but advancing the art via scholarly study of the collections by experts is exciting. I'm hopeful that DC has (or will) consider opening his collection to a greater range of qualified master builders such as Mr. Riser for this purpose. I'll bet that even non-magic builders could use some of the mechanical solutions contained in those objects for new advances to benefit society.

Gamalo, you wrote a fair perspective. I do know talking to those who knew those involved and what transpired, that if anything, Dr. Albo was reserved and gracious in his words, which reportedly, still resulted in a threatening phone call from the other's lawyer. Knowing how others have told me about the interactions with both, Dr. Albo is well remembered for having the best motivations, consideration, and clarity in his dealings.

Going back to my original post: The most important lesson from hearing Dr. Albo speak, was his gratitude and regard for the family, friends, and people from many walks of life, that contributed to his journey of life. He emphasized how important they were, compared to stuff.

When I look back at things pertaining to magic history/collecting, I don't find myself being too sorry over/missing something that got away, or I was outbid on, or no longer have. I do miss those who shared the madness of all of this, and who I looked forward to seeing again at different conventions/conferences, who are no longer here. They are what I value and treasure knowing and remembering.

The recently late Hugh Hefner said in an interview decades ago, that one of the great potentials and abilities of modern western people, was to create and live in the environment of their choosing. (Helps when you have the money to do so)

Hefner may not have been thinking of Thurston or Soo one-sheets, but Bob Lund and Norm Nielsen did create the world they wanted to live in and enjoy.

Perhaps Hef wasn't worried about the U-Haul, rather focusing on what he enjoyed, (and enjoyed) here and now, because he couldn't take it with him. Although he did arrange to be buried next to Marilyn Monroe.

Again, each person has to decide and know, what is the point of their collecting....or does there have to be? ("I don't care, it's fun!")