My generation and onward will just continue to sit at let these companies walk all over us. There was a time where tapping someone's phone was illegal without a proper warrant. Most people I know won't talk about ideas or something possibly illegal going down with phones in the same room, and rightly so!

Then the patriot act came thanks to cunt ass Bush jr. (Now remade to as another act to hide it).

Since then, all corporations have been able to listen in, follow, track, and sell data (our lives and tracking) without even asking us if it is okay.

Say you have to confirm to use your phone, whether it be android or apple. If you don't agree then you can't use the phone. This is highly immoral in that only a few phone makers exist. This is called monopolizing. By having all the phone companies do the same is racqueteering.

Just because our right to privacy doesn't specifically its protects you on the internet, it shouldn't have to do so.

Now I imagine that any comments on here are going to be those that just hate freedom; freedom of choice, right to privacy / pursuit of knowledge, etc.

even if u tried to “rebel” against big tech... you couldn’t. The internet has been monopolized. We live in an era where Google dominates the internet and Facebook gets to control what ideas people have

if you live in an area where the only service offered is one company, that's still a monopoly. there are a handful of internet companies, yes, but they mostly operate in cordoned off areas meaning there's no actual competition between them, and thus it's still a monopoly.

hm, i didnt know there was a distinction between the two. but i'm also not super concerned about the exact difference, because it comes out to the same thing. there are areas where only one service is supplied (be it internet, or a grocery store chain, or whatever) so there's no actual choice given

So, I think where the confusion comes from is whether you are looking at the entire market or not. If you are looking at the entire ISP market, then yes, it is a oligopoly. But what the guy is saying is that individual companies have a monopoly in certain cities. For example, Weed, CA might only have access to Time Warner Cable, who has a monopoly in the area because there are no other ISPs. It is but Time Warner Cable or have no internet.

i mean there are lots of people who say that the internet is now a necessity. if you have a job you probably use the internet. if you WANT a job you have to apply using the internet in most cases. if you want to be connected to people you largely have to use the internet. if you want access to information you need to use the internet. and not every place has a library in the first place, or it's hard to get to, or it's very far away. its very hard to live in the modern world without using the internet. and like, where do u think libraries get their internet from? if you go to a library and use the internet you're still supporting internet companies.

if you want to live a hermit life, then no, internet is not a necessity to live. if you want to function in the current century, then the internet is pretty necessary.

The internet wouldn't exist without those businesses anyways. You realize that the modern internet was based around Arpnet and universities connecting to one another? If companies hadn't had an interest in expanding that infrastructure, both for their use and our personal use, we wouldn't have the modern internet. Though the technology existed thanks to universities and military, it was business that made it accessible for everyone. Those lines aren't even considered a public utility, in some districts they're owned by the companies that lay the lines down, why Google has had such a fight getting its higher speed product rolled out across the US even though it has such a dominance in digital commerce. Also why some regions are stuck with such shitty internet, because they aren't allowed to roll out their own 'public utility' ISP like we used to see in the dial up era. I live in one of those cities because the two big ISPs lobbied with the local government, so despite there being a fiber optic backbone node in my city residents aren't able to access it.

I was about to say this. People forget that the internet existed before Google and Facebook. And expanded with it Facebook or Google. I remember the search engine was ask Jeeves. And the social media was aim and chat rooms.

We remember (or for those of us who are too young but into computers, we at least know about it) quite well. I find it kind of hilarious that the porn industry put so much money into the internet so that everyone could have easier access to it, only for paid porn to be a thing of the past 20 years later. Not to mention the extremely limited photo transfer capacity and complete inability to stream video. Ffs, the video streaming boom didn't really even happen until the early 2010s. Evem YouTube didn't take itself seriously in the mid to late 2000s.

Not true, with a simple search I found multitudes of 'localized online shopping' systems that started in the 70s. It just didn't gain much popularity until the mass appeal of the 'world wide web' in the 90s. http://www.instantshift.com/2010/03/26/the-history-of-online-shopping-in-nutshell/ Just one website. Hell on that website alone there's mentions of Amazon and online radio in 95, and in 1994 Pizza Hut was offering online ordering.

Actually used duck duck go, as like that other person said I dislike having google get access to so much of my stuff. I might have a gmail as a secondary backup, and have access to the optional google services but most of the time it's youtube.

I lived in one of those cities. Then a bunch of cities got together and found a loophole. The government couldn't run network, and a company couldn't run it, but it never said the citizens couldn't run their own. So the citizens petitioned the government to loan them money to run a fiber network and let businesses compete on it. Now I can get 10 gigabit speeds... Although that is $200/mo. Gigabit is $48/mo.

The lines are already laid, and the lobbying in my city likely included citizens, as we're the second biggest suburb of the metropolis where those companies have major offices which is in the state next door, and my state was also one of the first to lay a full fiber optic system across the entire state.

Facebook has no control, their services are limited to their platforms, I’ve never had a Facebook, Instagram, or other shitty social media platform. Reddit is the only social media I care about. How can Facebook control my ideas when I don’t even use their platforms.

Because Facebook tracks you, and serves ads to you, even if you’ve never visited the site once. Look at what scripts a page is trying to load - any given page - and almost guarantee it will be loading tracking scripts from Facebook.

Well, I use Ublock, and im not talking about tracking, i dont care about that, im ID#393852818019 and irrelevant. But anyway, how does facebook dictate what I see. And I don't remember seeing Facebook scripts on webpages, usually 50% are Google and other 50% are other data analytics scripts. U sure those fb scripts are not just calling for Facebook feed and to inflate impression numbers?

Exactly. I had them to keep in touch with people in highschool. After I got out, I damn near stopped using it altogether. Hell, the last time I was on was to tell a buddy I couldn't make it to his birthday party two months ago

I used to use Skype for all communication, then discord came out so I switched to that. Much better way to keep in touch imo. I just don't see the appeal of stuff like facebook, I don't take pictures and don't care about other people pictures and status updates. And also texting existed and still does, don't see why people think its better to use snapchat to text unless ur provider charges for texts which is rare to not have unlimited texts as basic packages

Discord, Kik, Line, and currently screwing around in Amino politics (jesus it's a hilarious cesspool ). Only use Kik and Line to keep in touch with my international friends that don't use discord. And I'm the same way. I don't like my shit being out in the open on facebook.

All the people you interact with probably have Facebook. Your ideas are largely governed by the people you interact with. Facebook even creates ghost profiles for people they know exist but aren't on the platform.

That’s not the statement they were making. They were saying that because of how companies keep buying up smaller companies, and how logins work, it’s nearly impossible to not have one of those accounts if you want to get stuff done on the internet. I have to have a Facebook account just to use my oculus go. You cannot use an oculus go without having a Facebook account.

Plain wrong. There are many ways to protect your privacy online. Using TOR on a tails client on a USB through your computer will make you safe enough to even do something like buy drugs off the internet.

Use an alternative privacy focused browser like Firefox, have Unlock origins or piehole to stop giving money to the advertisers.
Download alternative versions of apps like YouTube vanced, so you don't fund Google.

You get to experience the internet ad free and uncensored (Google often hides search results).

The NSA and similar organisations in other countries are also listening in by the way. Not that conpanies breaching privacy isn't a problem but we shouldn't forget that governments love spying on their people too.

People have reason to spy on Zuckerberg. He has shit to hide and would/could be in danger if his secrets were exposed. Of course hes scared to be spied on. Google listening to me isnt going to ruin my life.

I dont like spying and we should be wary but it's a different tier of people and I dont think "the man who does a job being afraid of that job being used against him means we should be scared too" is a good argument.

An assassin might be afraid of being assassinated but that doesnt mean we should all cower and look over our shoulders with binoculars to check for snipers.

Him being a software engineer doesnt matter because even if he created a great security software, nothing is unhackable. The only sure-fire way to avoid being recorded on camera is to physically disable the cameras function. Throwaway your phone, computer, etc if you're afraid. That's the only way you're going to ease your mind.

So he is probably worried about different things than we are. With zuck, he is worried that he will be specifically targeted by somebody who is upstream from him in software delivery, or somebody will use some very difficult vulnerability together remote access to his.

For Zuck, removing the mic and camera could just be an easy way to reduce exposure to risk of a targeted attack. Doesnt neccesarily reflect on the passive mass surveillance concerns that the general population is more concerned about.

Exactly. People are so freaked out by the concept of losing privacy, but nobody I’ve talked to has ever been able to present a plausible scenario for what these companies will do with the information that we need to be so worried about.

It's not like this is a new development. We gave companies the ability to fill our homes with their ads in exchange for free TV shows and radio a long time ago. We let them cover buildings and line the roads and paste their name all over every available venue and sport.

The problem isn't the ability to trade some attention or some privacy for some service. The problem is people like OP that treat all trades as being equivalent. They make it seem like if you're OK with any tradeoff that you're a sell out who's given up your basic rights. And they make it seem like we should be rioting anytime our privacy decreases at all. That's ridiculous and unrealistic, almost no one is going to get on board with that. It's unpopular because it's narrow minded and unrealistic and lacks and form of sense or nuance.

Take the radio for example:

If I listen to NPR there's some ads ("sponsors") at the beginning and end of shows. I'm fine with that, they're not intrusive and they're generally low key and well produced.

If I listen to my local talk radio station in the morning the shows are jam packed full of the stupidest and most annoying ads I can imagine.

Those two situations aren't equivalent. Would I prefer the option to pay for my radio? Sure, if everyone was on board with that it would probably be better. But if I'm going to "sell" my attention I'd much rather get a good deal for it.

And let's take Google:

I can opt out of targeted ads

They don't sell my data to anyone else

They give clear access to what data they're collecting and storing, let me see it, remind me to check in on it, and let me opt out of services I don't like. Plus there's a clear warning and opt in anytime they're going to collect anything like voice data.

They also make it ridiculously easy to export anything I'm storing with them (photos, documents, blog posts, emails, search and location history, etc.) so that I can easily choose to switch to a different service and don't feel "locked in".

They've never had a serious security breach, none of my data or passwords has ever been lost or compromised

And what do I get from them for that?

The best search engine by a mile

The best internet video site

The best email

The best online docs, and drive for sharing and collaborating

The most popular mobile OS in the world

The most popular browser in the world

The first major OS to seriously challenge Windows and Mac

Dozens of other useful services

So is that a good trade off? Compare that to any other major internet company, who is likely:

Unclear about what they're collecting or what they're doing with it

Hides what data they have, don't let us see it or export it or opt out

Sells the data to third parties

Probably has had some kind of serious security breach in at least one of their products or services

If we treat every single online service that uses our data in any way as being equivalent, of course we're not to do anything about. We're lumping together companies that are providing tons of useful services with great privacy controls with companies that are actively trying to abuse our data in the most profitable ways possible while giving us garbage we don't need.

"Free" is really just a kind of cattle call. You're calling the mindless cattle to do whatever you want them to do, while they hope to get food, when they're just being loaded up into trucks to be taken to the slaughter house. It's what is going on right now. Not only are and have whites been enslaved since 1861 when the the elite knew since they were going to end slavey that they needed a new kind of slavery under a different name and a more efficient and profitable business model when they introduced the first income tax that has from then on out only ever been increased; but people also don't realize and are being propagandized to ignore that whites are being genocidally replaced ALL OVER THE WHOLE PLANET at the same time and ONLY WHITES. We are going to witness to total and complete collapse of all white cultures and societies and countries within our lifetimes. Yes, you heard that correctly, there is simply nothing going to stop it from happening without some massive bloodshed, misery, and violence, from which whites could possibly emerge from ... which seems extremely unlikely. The alternative is that whites, those who created essentially every single thing we all have and enjoy all around us, will be destroyed and replaced with the savages that have absolutely nothing to show for over thousands of years.

You can't prove that the state of nature wouldn't be nice. Also, I'm not sure that I feel any safer on the Internet because Google and Facebook are spying on me; I've still got plenty of internet freedom but no privacy

Not just entertainment but information...or maybe it is entertainment, recreational outrage. In any case, there's so much bullshit out in the open these days that you can't possibly stay angry at all of it for long, you might kind of think "yeah! what google is doing is fucked!" and then something else will become the new thing in 30 seconds.

You do realize that the Soma was also ingested while watching entertainment sometimes, right? Even remember a scene describing a 'movie' that was enhanced by Soma use to the point it was like virtual reality.

What you linked is a question about Soma and Prozac, not opiates. They're not opiates anyway. People pop soma all the time without regard for dose in BNW. If people were doing that with opiates they'd be ODing left and right. Opiates aren't safe and they're cripplingly addictive. Soma is safe and people don't seem addicted to it they just take it because it makes things "better". Soma is most likely THC given the effects but the point is moot because it's not actually real.

There’s a really interesting book called Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman where he talks about how how we’re closer to Brave New World than we are to 1984. If you’re looking for a book recommendation maybe check it out.

God damn spoiled Yankees with their fancy burn-sides facial hair. I hate Civil War vets because our kids turned out to be little shits. Where is all the love for my generation, Mexican-American war vets ? Yeah, you little shits don't even appreciate Arizona, New Mexico, California, and parts of Texas. What about us!

None that offer what Google does. I don't think you can log into facebook with a Bing address, for example. Or the Play Store. You know what a monopoly is, even though it can sometimes be hard to contextualize the act of monopolizing the internet. I suppose that's what my accusation of Google boils down to. I'm not arguing their legal right, I'm saying they shouldn't have it in the first place

(Giving your data to get better ads is payment.)

Except I don't want ads, nobody wants ads. Especially not personalized ads that can occasionally make life awkward as heck. Google violates privacy in more ways than one. Adblock exists for a great reason

You dont need to give out that much info on facebook. Just name, pic, email.
Its the best way to connect with people that you havent hung out with in a long time. Or extended family. Or Age of Empires meme pages.

I think he’s complaining about making Facebook accounts with email from bing... even though he hasn’t used fb. You don’t have to give dna and ssn to set up an account. Everybody is cool lying until it’s to a software company

Everything you mention is a service. Google offers great services. You can get similiar ones, but they come at a cost. (Either pay some service money or invest your own time in, say, password management or researching alternative app stores.

If you don't want adds, pay for the services.

It's as I said: You want the service, but not pay for it. Well, tough luck.

I don’t know many paid services that do as good of a job as google at virtually anything they do. Also consider the integration of their services with their own products as well as technology partners. There’s nothing that comes close. And even the alternatives that do exist probably still gather data.

People are making the choice to use the services Google provide. There is an alternative to ever google service, most are just as good as the one google provides. By definition a monopoly is "the exclusive or control of the supply of or the trade in a commodity or service" google does not meet that definition.

But the point that OP is making is that there is no way to even have a phone in this day and age without agreeing to let them invade your privacy. Reading the terms and conditions mean nothing when they all have the same invasive policies, and if you don’t agree you are cut off from using the same technology that everyone uses to communicate.

That’s all well and good but you also can’t just cut yourself off from all modern technology for the rest of your life just because you believe in privacy. Giving up your privacy shouldn’t be the price of convenience. There should be options for smartphones that respect users’ privacy, even if you have to pay for some services that would be free otherwise.

I have replaced a lot of my services with non Google alternatives. And I will continue to do so. More people need to be aware of this!

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Edit: Since a lot of people have been asking what other alternatives I prefer to Google's own products, here's a list! You can also check out this video and more from his channel, its what I used for recommendations.

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For browsers, Firefox obviously. It doesn't run on Chromium engine, and while some people might choose to argue that Chrome is built on it so other chromium based browsers are okay, Google is the largest contributor to Chromium's codebase right now. It just makes more sense to switch to Quantum, since Firefox is privacy focused. It's got almost all of chrome's extensions (and more) so that's convenient.

DuckDuckGo instead of Google Search. Downside is that it doesn't give you personalized search results, but its just as accurate, even more so in some cases.

Telegram instead of Hangouts/Whatsapp (Thanks to Facebook, Whatsapp is just as dangerous, maybe even more, which is why I felt the need to add it here).

Mega instead of Google Drive. It gives you 50 GB instead of 5 GB for free, and its rather privacy focused.

Evernote instead of Google Keep. Evernote is just better in every way.

Zoho Mail instead of Gmail/Calendar/Contacts. I refused to go to any other big company for a similar reason, and Zoho fits this quite nicely. They don't have a size limitation unlike other "small" email providers, but they also aren't big enough to be malicious/cause any real damage.

And this is the most important bit:

Location History (Maps isn't as big of a threat to privacy as it is without this)

Voice and Audio Activity

Device Information

If you can, check each and every one of them and see the kind of info Google collects on you. Especially Web/App activity, Voice and Audio history and Location history. It's incredibly intrusive. Clear it all.

Pretty much the only Google service I use these days is YouTube, that’s the hardest to replace because of all the content creators on there. I hope an alternative springs up soon though because they constantly screw over and undervalue their creators...

Vid.me? I think the problem is that YouTube is a huge money pit and only Google has deep enough pockets to run such a large scale video platform that anyone can upload to. Facebook is making big strides in video but that’s even worse.

Youtube is just far too big and established aswell. Everyone knows and uses Youtube and it would take a lot of effort and time to build something that can dethrone it and for enough people to actually make the switch.

I forgot about Google Maps too... You could always switch to a different email provider but they’ll all be able to read your emails unless you run your own server but even then you’ll still be sending and receiving emails from Google servers (as well as Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple, etc.)

DuckDuckGo is my jam! It’s awful at searching for what you want but after a few weeks, you get used to it. For research, I always use Pubmed or Google Scholar, though, but for daily searches, I either go straight to Wikipedia or DuckDuckGo.

Google Maps is honestly the best but I use my Apple maps whenever I can. DuckDuckGo uses Bing maps I think.

The best one I've been able to find for maps with no Google affiliation is HERE WeGo. However, Google Maps data is definitely better, at least in the United States, so you really have to be committed to it.

Agreed. To be honest, I still don't use DDG. I like the idea of it more than the actual product. I think it will get better with time, but it's just not there yet. It certainly has improved in the last two years or so, and it's probably good for casual, easy searches. Not sure about their privacy, but I doubt they track you near to the extent Google does, if at all.

I use Bing though, which is a near equivalent to Google (plus you get points with Microsoft Rewards). If I'm looking for something very specific or hard to find, I'll still use Google.

Sadly I feel even Google has declined, and nowadays when trying to look for something very specific, I simply can't do it. It'll omit what I am actually looking for, and shovel something that's totally different but more popular. It decides for me what it thinks I want, instead what I actually want.

It used to be far better years ago. I'd have a weird thing I needed to search for, and I'd find it. Nowadays, it will use a couple of words from my search, to formulate the most common question and searches that. So I am really hoping for a search engine that can do what google was able to do 5-10 years ago.

Besides the fact that Google (and all the other alternatives) decide not to index every site, is just dumb.

Yeah, sometimes it works but mostly it still doesn't because I don't want my EXACT terms searched either (as when you type "something"), google used to do a good job of interpreting and finding what I am looking for, now I just feel like it always is trying to give me popular things above all, even if they have nothing in common with what I searched for.

You can use varying ones like ”Site:” to narrow things down to just a single site. I recommend going through the full list and seeing what ones you’d need. I don't remember them all of the top of my head.

Do you think once your activity is deleted, it's actually deleted? That's just absolutely mindblowing how much info was in there - and like everyone else said i'm torn about it because I know i'm not doing anything wrong and don't plan to commit any crimes, and it's nice to be able to have my commute time etc reported to me when i walk out of work... but like that's a lot of data about 90% of humans stored in there......

I don't know whether its actually deleted or not, but I'm hoping the EU compliance laws somehow come into effect and make them delete it. If not, can't hurt, right? Best case, they actually do get deleted, worse case, they get much less data from you than before.

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And I have to say, it isn't about you committing crimes or not, its not about what they're doing right now, its about what they CAN do with this info. Say you're diagnosed with cancer all of a sudden, or maybe you're in a accident and perhaps need a wheelchair. If your Google search history indicates that in ANY WAY, Google would then use its ML algorithms to inform its advertisers and the prices for those products would go up, JUST FOR YOU. The more and more data they collect, the more and more they get likely to do similar kinds of shit without letting the general public know, and the rich in the tech industry continue to get richer.

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I don't think all of this will be fun to deal with in the future. Reeks of a dystopia, and the more control we give companies like these over our privacy, the worse it becomes for us. Our well-beings have no place in their intentions.

This whole thread is getting added to my "highly upvoted total bullshit" Hall of Fame.

Google is super open about the data they gather on you. Just go to your privacy dashboard and check it out, the amount of data they have is staggering if you're a frequent Google user. If you don't like it then use some of the many many many alternatives. You will likely have to pay or give up some convenience in exchange for total privacy, that's just life these days

EDIT: to the naysayers, figuring out if "Google was listening to you all the time" would be trivially easy with even a basic understanding of networking and if they got busted doing that they'd get sued like there's no tomorrow. I'm not saying Google is altruistic, but very smart people have torn these services apart and they're doing what they say they're doing. Google is collecting your data, it's very apparent in the privacy console, it's both way more and less than what people have been yelling about here. Read up on this in tech blogs and other reputable sources, most of the loud opinions expressed here are total BS

You will likely have to pay or give up some convenience in exchange for total privacy

I only use google for a search engine so in regards to a search engine no your comment is totally false. Duckduckgo the search engine is totally free and they dont collect or sell any data on you and they're just as good of a search engine as google.

Not completely true. They do not give personalized results the way google does. As a student, I absolutely adore that my google search ''knows'' me well enough to provide what I am looking for. If I want total privacy, sure I could use duckduckgo. But it will make me waste a lot more time while trying to find what I am needing.

In my class, one can definitely see a difference in the quality of information that is found based on what people use and how often they research. It's come to a point that saying ''just fuckin google it'' doesn't work if their search engine is too random.

I have been seeking a smartphone with good privacy for a good while. I was looking into hacking a sony and installing sailfish os on it, but that seems kind of hard (with having to get a vpn, pose as a european, buy it, download it, root the phone, install)

can you recommend me any apple or google alternatives that i can buy off the shelf?

I haven't gotten into privacy hardware but yeah that's one way to do it. I think by default Apple is a better option since they emphasize privacy much more so than Google. There's a lot of smartphone privacy options, but I think if you're crazy paranoid you might be better off with cheap prepaid burner phones.

I think it's mostly confirmation bias. "OMG I TALKED ABOUT A THING AND STARTED GETTING ADS FOR IT!"

No, what happened is you searched for it and forgot about it, or a friend searched for it, or something like that. There is precisely zero evidence that any surreptitious recording is going on. All of these anecdotes are meaningless. Show me an experimental protocol free of confirmation bias, and then we can talk.

It'd be so easy for even basic network engineers to catch if the assistant was sending data all the time.

Not a lot of people understand that network traffic can be easily monitored with extremely basic tools. Which probably means they're spraying their data around to far more worrysome places than Google.

A couple of weeks ago my SO was telling me about how she was getting her friend a "Boomf" (i think that's how it's spelled) for her bday. She spoke about it a few times. i never once googled it. Not even sure how to spell it right, clearly.

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A couple of days later i got an ad for one on my Instagram feed. They are listening to us. This happens regularly.

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I bough suncream 3 days ago and got an ad for the exact brand on my phone. I didn't google or look it up because i knew the brand i was getting. I am convinced They are definitely listening to us.

They do listen all the time. Of course they don’t record everything, keywords trigger collection. Google isn’t even the biggest culprit. Instagram uses microphones to target ads which is why you can’t even select an image from your photo library without giving instagram access to your microphone. Samsung now puts warnings on its smart TVs that encourage people not to have sensitive conversations in front of it.

Do these people actually think Google and/or governments hire someone to sit in an office and listen to their phone mic 24 hours a day? Or record their phone mic 24 hours a day? People just love to hate big corporations, simply because they’re big corporations.

You have a problem with the way Google, a private company, offers its services? Don’t use them 🤷🏻‍♂️

If the first thing that comes to your mind is workers sitting in cubicles actively listening and recording your data, then you have no absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

There is a lot of money being made by harvesting data. And anyone who can get their hands in it will. Hasn’t anyone paid any attention to what’s been going on with Facebook?

You don’t only need to worry about how your legally obtained data is used but it’s also very likely that whoever stores your data, even legally, will be compromised at some point in time. Either from someone within the system or from a third party hack.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I read a way to “prove” this is to turn on a radio station in another language and have your phone in the vicinity for about a day. You should start to see ads in that language now on Facebook, etc. I haven’t tried this myself but have heard from multiple people about this.
But hey, I’ve seen ads for things I didn’t even say out loud and just thought about. Mind reading evil corps 😂

Now I imagine that any comments on here are going to be those that just hate freedom; freedom of choice, right to privacy / pursuit of knowledge, etc.

And anyone not your opinion is someone who somehow does "hate freedom"? No one promised a land of milk and honey where you get everything that's possible for free and if you want that, search on. You can have most modern services by investing enough time and effort, maybe some money for hardware and connectivity, in setting up your own services or signing up for alternatives to Google.

All this talk about how Google and Facebook are eViL mOnStEr CoMpAnIeS! is pure lazyness in my opinion. Don't use Facebook, Whatsapp and Google if you don't trust them with your data.

Agreed. I'm well aware of the problems with privacy on Google, and Facebook. I dont use Facebook anymore. But Google is just to handy not to have. Plus I'm also not doing anything illegal, so ideally I couldnt care less if Google sells my data. On top of that, in terms of privacy. People post their whole loves online. Then want to bitch about how Facebook, and Instagram are selling their data. Like holy shit dude the internet is public. What you post is available for anyone to see. Dont like it. Get the fuck off the internet.

Google isn't selling the data, because as soon as they do it becomes less valuable. Google is selling the target package (to use a military term). Companies will make ads and give them to Google with the a target package. Companies will say something like:

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I want this ad to reach middle aged, White, Females, 2+ kids, Soccer, who drives a minivan. And Google takes that and figures out how to get it to that specific person.

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As long as google holds that information they can decide how much its worth, but once they sell it then it becomes immensely less valuable.

Yep. It's weird Google in particular gets a bad rap for this when they probably have among the best data privacy standards of the tech firms most people interact with.

Google doesn't sell your data to third parties. They collect a shit ton of data to use machine learning to improve their products, and then they sell "target packages" in this person's phrasing to match ads to a "profile" you seem to fit, but no one except Google ever sees "you".

Totally this. Especially since Google has also the knowledge, financial power and interest to keep its data safe. If I'd host every service Google offers on my own server, it would be immensly less secure.

Agreed with all, except Facebook. They are notoriously sketchy. They need a wake up call to what they're doing isn't ok, even by corporate data standards. They legitimately do illegal things, then only pull it and apologize after they've been caught.

To be fair doesn't your bank have more data on you than most of these companies? They know your address, telephone number, date of birth, mother's maiden name, where you have lived previously, what you spend your money on, how much you spend , where you holiday, your passport details or driver's ID number, the value of your home contents (if you have insurance and that's a 3rd party), all sorts and loads more.....and they sell it all to 3rd parties and credit referencing agencies. This isn't new, it's just more transparent.
And I agree some companies are more deceptive with how they use it but just because you use Duck duck go doesn't mean Microsoft or your OS of choice aren't gathering all the data they like from your machine.
I personally feel we have become over sensitive to this and if you think back it's been happening for 100's of years, the government create a document as soon as you are born, which is signed by your parents, a note of where you reside, and added to the consensus.....if you want privacy nowadays you probably need to fake your own death then live in the mountains! 🤦🏼‍♂️

I used to do SEO, and the amount of data Google analytics gets on you is just....insane. each thing you do online leaves an impression, every word you type is parsed, every site you visit, each click you make is measured against the triillions of other daily, independent actions of other users, figuring out who you are and what you like with startling accuracy. It does this automatically, and down to the smallest detail. And GA runs on nearly every website, app, or service out there with effectively no way for you to block it. And no, adblockers can't and don't shield you from everything GA gathers.

Because of this, and all of their free services, it's correct to say that Google absolutely owns the internet. If they change something, everyone else has to accommodate it or risk losing money.

That being said, there really is no way around this if you need to use the internet at all. Even my beloved Firefox, with all of it's privacy measures, can't shield you from getting your data harvested. Another fair point is metadata. I've never used Facebook, however I'm absolutely sure they know who I am, due to people I know talking about me, tagging me in photos, etc, which is then cross referenced with other data. Hell, my entire place of work is a Gsuite shop. The amount of data they gather from that must be incredible

I don't think it's a good idea for companies to have this much data. But we're past that, they do, and they will continue, and the incentive is just not there for developers to create alternatives that don't collect or make money off your data because it doesn't make them any money

I'm from Germany and unsure on where you are from, but I'm pretty sure my bank does NOT sell my data. It does give some very limited information to credit rating agencies, like how much overdraw I am granted and if I missed payments and that I do indeed have an account and some identifying info, but if any bank in Germany would start selling the data you describe, they'd be in trouble big time!

Actually it's very common as their services home insurance, gadget insurance, life insurance, special offers, rewards schemes, hotel offers etc these are all normally 3rd parties. And if you read the T&C's they stipulate you may be contacted by 3rd parties in relation to their offers and services.
It's not uncommon and GDPR compliant. This doesn't mean they won't or don't sell it btw.

Again, you talking about the situation where exactly? Because while I don't read TOS when dealing with software licenses, games and the like - who does - I do when dealing with bank accounts, insurances and the like. And knowing how important privacy is here in Germany to many people, banks selling their customers data to other companies would be a scandal, legal or not.

Yeah, people seem to have an irrational hate of companies or government that I don't understand. Granted, both of them are whores but they are necessary whores so why not understand and try and bring the whore in from the streets instead of beating the whore.

The way I see it, is these are services that greatly improve and facilitate countless number of tasks that we perform on a daily basis. These services did not, and wont get, any better by people opting out of them. In order to make these services better and more tailored to our particular needs, some data must be shared. I think it's kind of selfish to want to take advantage of these services and give nothing in return. There's a price to commodities.

Yeah, I don’t get the fear behind them getting your data. I worked for a company that gathered data for companies and they just want to advertise things to you that you actually might want to buy. They didn’t do anything nefarious with the data.

Agreed. Combined with Siri I’ve honestly reached the point where whenever I’m about to google something one of the two almost always already had the answer I was looking for up and displayed (at most I have to type like 2 letters). Similarly I’m starting to see lots of cases where I say, schedule an appointment online, or buy movie tickets, and my phone is already putting automatic reminders up for me or reminding me of conflicts.

The lack of privacy is worth considering, but we’re finally starting to see the fruition of the whole “personal assistant” type of spiel; devices that know enough about you to automatically track and handle lesser affairs, and can even predict what you are going to need before you actually need it.

It's a bummer that this constant spying is the reality, but also, I'm really resigned to it. Any information that I may want hidden is already in their grasps. They know my SSN, my CCNs, Google could assume my identity and be more convincing than I could be. I can't take it back.

So fine, Google knows my favorite streamers and products and lets me know when I can get them cheap. Thanks

I get this sentiment. I felt it for a while. However, while that May currently be the case, it doesn’t have to be the case for the rest of your life. You can start protecting what’s most important and sensitive to you from them with very simple, privacy-respecting alternatives without sacrificing much convenience.

For example, an easy start is by switching your search engine to DuckDuckGo, Startpage, or Ecosia. These search engines work wonderfully. I live on the Web and use these engines full-time and 99.99% of the time, they pull up exactly what I need. Use Google if they don’t meet your needs, but I’d be willing to bet that your need will be met by any single one of these search engines most of the time.

In my opinion, even if one doesn’t care about invasions to their own privacy, wouldn’t it be better to use search engines and other digital tools that offer comparable service without sacrificing as much privacy? There’s little or no downside for you and you help take a stand against intrusive agencies. I think that’s a good deal.

If you’re interested in more privacy tips and advice, please check out r/Privacy. There are good starter guides (a search of the subreddit should pull up quite a few, as well as the sidebar links) that give some insight into simple changes you can make to help protect your and others’ privacy without making significant sacrifices to convenience.

I think that's the point he is making. You have to be listened to by Google. The alternative, living without google, isnt viable. But it should have to be that you give up your privacy to use a irreplaceable service. It's just that they can do that, so they did.

tbh, I don't mind it either. They take my data to provide me with better free services. If they use that data to personalize ads shown to me, then fine. I'm mostly at the computer so ad blockers are an easy solution. When on mobile, I basically tune out ads.

Besides, I'd rather have personalized ads than the shit I don't really care about.

You can live without google. We did it for thousands of years, it's just inconvenient not to. Google isn't forcing you to use their service and then spying on you, it's offering you a service and spying on you, you're free to refuse

OPs point is that sure they aren't forcing you by conventional means, but try living without Google in today's society and see what happens. It's not easy, and that's why it should be changed. But you are right, you can live without Google, so thats why they can get away with it.

Have you looked at the "okay Google" recordings? They are public. Some of mine didnt start with "okay google" and were just clips of me talking to my friend. That's why I personally got rid of all Google's permissions on my device.

Definitely a thing, I thought it was just coincidence at first but a salesman came round the other day about changing energy suppliers. he spoke to my GF at the door and i was upstairs, I couldnt hear the convo and my phone was with me. Long story short they decided on a particular supplier that I had never heard of - at the point when my gf told me what the outcome was I probably had my phone on me.

Within minutes, I went on Facebook and there was a sponsored ad for this energy supplier I had never heard of, never searched for and never talked about before. That's creepy AF

Definitely a thing, I thought it was just coincedance at first but a salesman came round the other day about changing energy suppliers. he spoke to my GF at the door and i was upstairs, I couldnt hear the convo and my phone was with me. Long story short they decided on a particular supplier that I had never heard of - at the point when my gf told me what the outcome was I probably had my phone on me.

Lol this. I don't want to go all #hailcorporate but Google and friends are not listening to you 100% of the time. The assistant service uses a locally processed hot word and if you want to check if Google is sending your voice data all the time you only need an elementary understanding of networking and Wireshark to see what your phone/assistant box is sending to the cloud.

Now of course Google is getting to the point where they could listen in and send transcripts of what you're saying, which would be a lot harder to monitor. Their latest keynote said they've gotten the whole voice engine to run on around 500mb of space. Thing is if they were to actually violate users trust on that level and got busted, they'd get absolutely slammed with lawsuits and regulatory fines.

Google is pretty open about what they gather from you. There's a whole privacy dashboard and anyone can browse and see what they have on you. If you use their stuff even casually it's a staggering amount of data. Using location services pings your location and creates a location history complete with photos from Google photos, every assistant question is recorded and catalogged, every time you open an app on your phone and how long you use it is logged, almost every website you visit even outside of Google is tracked with Google Analytics plugins, and even more.

Be aware of what they're gathering. You can turn sections of it off and in turn you lose services dependent on those features. There's lots of great alternatives if you don't want to pay with your data. Stop making BS up about Google being all sneaky and spying on you. They're pretty open about the fact that they're doing it.

Your phone is not listening and sending that data for ads. As someone else mentioned, you're just predictable. Algorithms are powerful and can connect you and your interests in ways you've never even thought of. Using microphones without your consent for this purpose IS illegal and would have been a scandal by now. Instead of just believing in the conspiracy, do some research.

God this is a tiresome argument. Anyone half technical can see every single piece of data that's going over their network. It would take me about 30 seconds to identify that this was happening and I'd be a rockstar for breaking the news to the world.

And slowly we stop giving a fuck about all of our rights until all of us are just lowlife furry wankers who no longer have any freedom.

What you're saying is like having your house robbed repeatedly and rather than doing anything about it just giving up and leaving your door open whilst you play with your dick in the basement because you don't care. Have some self respect.

What you're saying is like having your house robbed repeatedly and rather than doing anything about it just giving up and leaving your door open whilst you play with your dick in the basement because you don't care.

Ah yes because from the moment a company uses your data you miraculously forget that memory of whatever they used or does your house regrow things in case they get stolen?

It's more like you've got a house made of walls and suddenly you decide to install windows because you want to use the service of the sun but now your neighbors can view inside your house because of the windows. So what you can do now to protect your privacy is install window blinds, which sadly you have no control over when it comes to your personal data and what companies do with it because on your phone, you have no window blinds but you could install them. There're various "anti spy" apps but the problem then becomes redundant as you don't know if those anti spy apps themself may spy on your phone.

I personally don't use any anti-spy app nor do I make great effort to keep my data personal, what I do is not signing up on sites that I'm not familiar with and I also deleted my facebook account about a year ago. I have no social medias in use, no twitter, insta, snapchat and whatever else there is.

Except that’s nothing like what he’s saying. There is no way to stop these company’s from getting your information, where we need to focus is how they are using the information, most of which you agree to when you sign the terms of conditions. To use your analogy, it’s like signing an official document saying someone can rob your house without reading it, and when they just take inventory and leave you throw a hissy fit.

I also don’t really care. They can have my data - there’s nothing particularly interesting and I’m not rich enough to steal from.
My life isn’t my own anyway, as I have to work, so eh. At least I get quick net searches before I die.

Even if the ROM is fully Clean from Google services which is easily done the alternative services are not as stable or perfected as the Google ones.

There's also the matter of proprietary blobs in the kernel but I doubt those track our information.

There's only one developer making ROMs for my A3 2017 model. Unless users get the higher end models or decide on a phone maker known for their open source friendly policies it'll be a bit of a challenge getting proper support for custom ROMs.

But being interested in your privacy means you invest the time to research which phone is customizable according to your liking and then get the correct phone.

There are enough former high end phones put there where there are several CustomROMs available.

The atlernative service being not as stable is exactly what I am talking about. If you want the comfort, quality and stability of Googles services, you have to agree to their terms. I think that's fair.

You can get less comfortable services - either find them and pay them or set them up yourself. Which costs time and money.

People assume that because something's open source it can't possibly be doing anything malicious, but have you personally read and understood the 15 million lines of code that is Android? And did you then personally compile and upload those same files to your phone, and do you do this with every update?
Of course not that would be ridiculous

Did you even read the comment? Did you understand it? Nowhere said the user nor did the user somehow say that they're smarter, the user simply pointed out that no-one can know every line of code in the android roms shipped by google and since everyone can alter the roms, there could be anything in it, even malicious code implemented by some masterhacker.

To be fair, I don't think apple sells your data and I don't think Google sells your data. They both track you as good as they can (and I'd wager on Google being "better" at tracking you). But at least Google uses the data to sell targeted ads.

And unless you can prove otherwise, there’s no reason not to make that assumption. Apple actually charge you for services and products because, unlike with Google, you are the customer and not the product.

I mean, unless you can prove 100% that you're not secretly being sold out either the same can be said about your comment. My ability to be naieve about a company's proposed practices vanished a longggg time ago.

Italian :D plus, on top of google not listening to your stuff, no indian will phone you to tell you he works for microsoft and detected a virus in your pc, or that he's a lawyer and you need to send money.

Although I agree with you 100% that they can listen and spy etc. After all it is a handheld computer with a microphone and camera. I just dont believe that they are "listening."

I realize google keep track of what you search and listen to your conversations to help produce ads that are more likely to strike your appeal, I cant put that into the same category is this though.

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I couldnt even begin to fathom the servers and storage they would need not to mention an insane organization system to store all of this data.. considering a lot of people are talking/texting almost non stop these days... the thought thats theres some huge area completely devoted to accurately store all your info is ridiculous, there are million of phone calls / text messages happening at every second of every day all over the world.

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At best they have special words they are looking for and may then dig into 1 specific person if the suspected crime is big enough. The manpower and money it would cost for all this is insane and very unlikely

Ok, I actually wanted to look into this. Let's say that google did want to track and monitor people talking. How much data would that be to store? First let's assume that they're smart about it and store everything as text. They don't need to hear you say it, just identify you in the transcript.

Next, let's figure out how much data that would be. UPENN says upwards of 7'000 words a day, so lets use that as a baseline. If we're storing uncompressed text let's say it takes on average 5B to store a word. this means Google can shove everything you've said today into a 35KB text file. Expanding on that and we get 12.8MB for a year of transcripts. if google wanted to monitor every person in the US they could do so for as little as 3.8 PB of hard drive space. At $0.25 per GB of storage that's $960'000 dollars each year.

I think the takeaway from this is that we, as people, don't produce a lot of data. compared to video uploads, searches, log files, and all the digital communication going on silently in the background, humans don't say very much. It's not a question of if they can record people, it's a question of if they want to, and what can be done if they did.

The way I see it is, if you aren't an important figure (Senator, Politician, Presidential Candidate, Celebrity, ect.) you shouldn't worry about it. Come on, most of us are normal people. The most they do is sell our info to bombard us with ads and that can be blocked in some ways or another.

Pretty sure Google doesn't give a fuck what type of porn you watch or voice notes to your friends.

Yeah, it's kind of amazing to me how many people genuinely think they're special enough to be a person of interest to a major corporation or government in a world of over 7 billion people, 325 million in the United states alone.

Sorry, but you're not special. Companies just want to sell you shit. That's not Orwellian.

Yeah, it's kind of amazing to me how many people genuinely think they're special enough to be a person of interest to a major corporation or government in a world of over 7 billion people, 325 million in the United states alone. People don't care what you're saying. You don't need free speech.

Google and other services know enough about you through internet usage alone to create entire data centers that can digitally recreate your entire personality and interests. I think it’s actually incredibly naive for people to just “not worry about” these corporations’ stranglehold on massive amounts of information about you because you think they don’t care. Perhaps there comes along a reason for them to care? What then? It didn’t even take Snowden to prove that big corporations like google will bend over backwards to sell heaps of data to the government. What we have is an entire generation of very sheltered people who don’t understand the importance of privacy, because privacy is not just a “nice thing”, it is a fallback, a failsafe for when the people who have incredibly power over you decide to wield it unjustly.

Someone else notes that privacy is important in case the people in power decide to use your information unjustly;

Realistically, I'm not a terrorist, or a criminal, or a politician, or anyone famous. I'm not someone that anyone has any interest in.

If someone at Google decides to tell everyone what brand of toothpaste I prefer, super, go for it, it's not that interesting, no one will care.

If they decide to recreate my personality and interests, good for them, I don't think of myself as being a particularly nice person, or down with the social engineering talent, there's pretty much no gain to imitating my behaviour. Except to find out what stuff I might buy and what might make me buy it.

Google does however, provide me with some mighty useful services that make my life more convenient.

I'm not sheltered or unaware of how important privacy can be. But I'm also realistic. I'm not in a position where my privacy being compromised will impact anyone in the world in a meaningful way.

Sure, if I took a sharp left into politics in the next ten years, someone at google could probably dig up something to embarrass me. But would they? Realistically, probably not.

Is it a concern that maybe someone at google has some blackmail influence over some people in power somewhere? Maybe a little, but again, realistically, someone is always in power and someone always has sway. Whether that's oil and gas or big tech, doesn't matter greatly to most people and if you think that shit didn't happen before Google, you're lying to yourself.

And that's what modern 'big data' tech allows, is that edge of power. Being able to identify a few thousand swingable votes or getting someone to vote or not vote is worth billions.

Find Democrats in a swing state that only speak a non-english language, and target them with a "Vote on Wednesday" campaign.

Filter by what issue will get people to the polls; abortion, immigration, jobs, etc. and sent targeted ads for just that issue to get them to vote for your guys because 'jobs!' even though they are pro-choice married to an immigrant; or 'killing babies!' even though they are an unemployed immigrant; or 'build the wall!' even though they are unemployed and pro-choice...

We are in an age where they manipulate not just one 'public' image; but an image that is tailored just for YOU.

I feel like it’s kind of fucked up that I have, on more than one occasion, NOT googled something I was genuinely just curious about for fear of being put on a list, or having someone knock on my door. Like that TIFU dude that was buying a bunch of pressure cookers at a discount so he could resell them to make money. I’m legitimately afraid that I’m going to do something like that without knowing that it can be used for nefarious purposes.

I just don't really care. Like what are they gonna do with my conversation about a cat that shit in my garden?

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I've long been of the opinion if you've got nothing to hide then why sweat about stuff like this? You can argue on the "principles of privacy" all you want but there's a difference between having some physical privacy like being able to get changed in private and some dude who gets paid minimum wage to look through my Amazon purchase history to try and improve advertising.

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I would much rather have everything at my fingertips when I want it than hold onto this fragile idea of "privacy" when the internet is inherently **not private**! It is literally a global connection of machines *sharing* data. If no one wanted their data shared we wouldn't have an internet.

I agree there has to be a line such as trusting companies with your bank details etc. but I do trust them. I don't believe they would sell my card details or logins because that's illegal. Anything else is fair game. They wanna sell my search history, go ahead. They wanna sell my Netflix watches, go ahead. Who gives a fuck?

The fact a search engine as powerful as Google exists is wonderous, let alone the fact it's **free** to use! Of course, they're gonna sell your data they're a business!

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You live on this planet *once*. Stop shitting yourself over companies knowing what milk brand you like.

Personally, I think its a good thing that lots of public interaction is recorded these days, if you know you're being watched in public committing crime becomes much more dangerous. And again, if you are in public intending on committing a crime then why are you bothered? The cameras are there for your safety.

The simple fact is, the negativity of being spied on all the time is not enough to counterbalance the utility of having the current access to technology we currently have, to most people. The simple fact is, most average people are, and I hate to use this cliche, sheep. The mantra "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear," actually does apply to most people. They have cookie-cutter social and political opinions, and even the more fringe opinions are generally benign anyway. Rights are for people who need them, not for people in general. The average American's life would be totally unchanged if the bill of rights was thrown in the trash.

No one does because most do not give a fuck or are too ignorant about their privacy and freedom. They just care about likes and hearts from random strangers on social media. That's why us minority should do whatever we can to halt the invasion of privacy from these corporations for as long as possible.

Can you explain me why we should be concerned all about this? I thought that they collect user data to make a more comfortable environment for them. Its basically stored some where where it is hardly accessable for human. Its just an "AI" that doesnt even know what it means. Therefore it doesnt have any information value anyway. This is what I think, therefore I think it is absolutely okay to ignore this since noone can do anything with them. Maybe FBI or some shit, but still..

I'm also curious as to why this is a bad thing. Ads are unavoidable on the internet, I'd rather have them advertise stuff I actually want, especially since in return I get to use some fantastic products for free. Everybody wins.

Ads are not just for advertising. The moment you click on it, you give the ads lots of information about. You know those things that would give you free coupons if you sign up with your phone number? This is a huge privacy breach. Do you give random strangers on the street your number if they ask? The same thing with FB and GG that ask for your phone number too. They claim it's for better security but that's bullshit. If they really care about security, they would give alternative 2FA options such as Yubikey or OTP to sign in your account.

The ads that you see on FB, they tie to your account the moment you click on it because FB also sells your data to the ads companies. You clicked on baby food? It's mostly likely you're having or about to have a child. You clicked on diamond rings? It's mostly likely that you're getting married, or it can be certainly sure that you're able to afford it.

Now, what if the ads companies resell your data to other companies? And if the company you're working at is one of its buyers? Do you think they want someone who will be on maternity leave for months and someone has to cover their work during that time? They also may think that your marriage life will affect your work since you now have a family, and there's also a possibility that you will have children. What if you searched for political information on Google? You think FB wouldn't know it because you're using Google? These companies sell data to one another to make everything connected you and therefore know more about you. And what if your employers sees that you seached for a political nominee that they do not like? Employers often claim they hire based on purely your ability, and we know that's a big lie. That will become even a bigger lie if they know what you do in your personal life. There's a whole lots of topics about this if you go to r/privacy and expand your horizon.

I already gave some examples to some people in this thread. You can read it, and I will give you some more examples as to how bad this can get. First, look at China and Australia, so you won't claim what I'm about to say is pure fiction and that I'm just being paranoid. Your information is valuable. Instead of thinking that it's normal to give our private information to these companies, why don't we start thinking that why we have to our information to them in the first place. It's called private for a reason. Do you give out your phone number to anyone who asks? Your home address? Your SSN? Why should you do so when FB and the likes such as Google ask for it? Because they're big companies and have a reputation to uphold, so they wouldn't do something bad with that information?

These companies sell your information to other companies. The more info they have about you, the more you stand out. These companies also voluntarily give your data to law enforcement. Imagine all these information coupled with license plate reader we've been hearing much about recently. Given how racial profiling still exists, what if the cop that pulled you over knew about other information about you? What you searched on Google? What you post on FB? At this point, it won't be just racial profiling. What if they know you called out injustice shooting from a cop? They now know you're not on their side even when they're wrong and make it harder for you. Like giving a ticket instead of just a warning they would have given had they now know about this.

Your health insurance knows you were searching for oncologists? Guess what, next bill, you wonder why your insurance cost increased. Sure, you may call and ask them why, but they would surely not give out the real reason and instead say something like, "Because we have hired more employees in order to accommodate more customers, we have increased the cost at certain areas." What are you going to do something about it? The only thing you can do here is to terminate the contract to search for a cheaper insurance company, which is exactly what they want. Like I said to others, please go to r/privacy and look at some of the posts. You may find more reasons to protect your data and privacy then you do now. Or you can just go to youtube and watch videos about mass surveillance in China. If the companies and the US government see that no opposition from the people, we might become China just like Australia recently did.

Your searches on Google can reveal a lot of information about you. For example: your location, habits, gender, age, etc. Imagine all that information get sold to, say, insurance companies. They will then know what type of people live in certain areas. For example, if they know there's a lot of black people live in this area, they may increase the insurance rate for everyone live in that area, claiming it's because of the location. And we wouldn't be able to prove if it's a discrimination. There's a whole lot more than this. I'd suggest you go visit r/privacy and take a look at the dark side of mass surveillance.

Tennis Mafia? Anyway, anyone who reads up on smart devices realizes that they only work when connected to a "smart" internet, and they listen to every word (that's how they know when you say "hey Alexa"). That they parse those words to target ads is unsurprising, to say the least.

It creeps me out that Google keeps a record of everything you search for. If you have an illness and want to look up your symptoms, Google now has a record of what illness you have and can sell that information to advertisers. If you let them Google will know every page you visit, every email you receive, every place you go, every event on your calendar.

What concerns me even more though is the amount of control Google has over the internet. Nearly everyone uses Google, YouTube, Chrome, etc. If Google doesn’t like a website then they can just bury it in the search results, if Google doesn’t like a video they can just demonetize it or remove it from YouTube, heck they can even just mark a website as malicious and stop people from viewing it in Chrome if they want.

It may sound like I’m being dramatic but right now Google are pushing something called Accelerated Mobile Pages (AMP) which allows web pages to load faster on mobile. The only problem is your page has to conform to Google’s standards on how a site should be built and monetized and sites that choose to do this get ranked higher in the search results. So the choice is either to further lock users into the Google ecosystem or have your website buried in the search results.

This is not what I want the internet to be. No company should have control over the internet and it seems like we’re slowly allowing Google to take away our privacy and freedom in the name of convenience.

"It creeps me out that Google keeps a record of everything you search for. " -that's why you can delete your search history, or just disable it.

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"they can just bury it in the search results" - they aren't the only search engine

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"So the choice is either to further lock users into the Google ecosystem or have your website buried in the search results" -- or just make your own alternative to AMP and have a fast enough pagespeed to rank in search.

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"No company should have control over the internet" -- no company does, just ahem, google alternatives to everything you 'think' you're locked in to, they are out there

The Problem is that there is no real alternative. We want a free net, we want free videos on YouTube, we want to read high-quality content online without paying. This is something new. In the past people were used to pay for newspaper, magazines, tv shows. Now we want everything for free. And even ads can't be used anymore as most people just use adblockers. So companies started selling our data. Do you know why these companies have a monopoly? Because nobody wants to pay money for web services. Take Netflix for example. They aren't using ads and (maybe I am wrong) they don't collect lots of data. But whenever they need to raise their prices everybody starts whining and hating Netflix, even threatening to stop using it. On the other side google is probably using all of your data but because almost all of their services are free nobody fucking cares. For example would you use an alternative to Google maps if it costs 10 bucks a month? Of course not. We are choosing our new data-collecting products. And even if a law would start forbidding it, somewhere on Earth companies would create new apps which we would use because they are cheap. I think the only way to stop google, Microsoft and co. is when something really big happens like a major leak of chat histories of billions of people. This would make people stop insecure services. For some time. Maybe.

If google wants to listen to me while I work all day, I could care less. If it wants to listen to me while I watch tv when I get home, go for it. If it’s interested in listening to me and my friends drunkenly argue whether or not the Godzilla movie from 1998 staring Mathew Broderick was good, at 3am on a Friday night, be my guest.

“He’s singing Night Moves by Bob Seger in the shower again, that’s the third time this week! Write that down, WRITE THAT DOWN!”

I really don't see the problem. I have no problem at all letting companies know what i search for and what I converse about. As long as it helps them make their service better and more fitting for me. There's obviously no one sitting in an office and listening to the meaning behind what I say, or trying to paint a picture of me by what I search for. And even IF that would be that case, so what? It has no impact what so ever on my life.

Dude no one gives a shit that google is listening to our conversations, if someone from google wants to listen in to my phone calls where I bitch about work or talk shit let em. The world isn't out to get you. It's nothing to lose sleep over.

Cmon. You really think they are listening to billions of phones? Dont know if they might have something like a keyword that will trigger something and something happens like better advertisements for you but I don't really care much about my privacy because... what do they want to do with that information?

A few days ago, my boyfriend was telling me about a specific scene from the George Lopez show. Personally, I was a little kid when the show aired so I never took much interest in it. Just yesterday, I opened YouTube and the exact clip we were talking about showed up on my home page. For a show I don't watch, much less look up on YouTube, why would it show up on my home page? With that scene specifically? I think that's far beyond coincidence.

Even you could be right about all of that, but the important piece of the puzzle you're missing is motivation and what they do with the data. Google doesn't have a file full of your nudes they're waiting to blackmail you with. More specifically, they don't even have file with your name on it. All the data they are getting from you is just so they can advertise stuff to you more effectively. Which is cause for concern; but not quite on the fight back level

If you value your privacy so much, just don’t buy a smartphone, they’re a luxury item and plenty of people make do without them. If you ABSOLUTELY NEED ONE for work, then just turn it off when you don’t need it, and if you’re super paranoid you can even leave it somewhere where ‘they’ can’t hear you.

A friend of mine's google account was "hacked" by a friend of his, who also sent a message from my friends gmail to all the teachers and all his contacts, including me, calling the teachers faggots, etc. I took this very seriously, since i didnt want this to happen to me, so i asked him to "snitch" on the guy, but my friend said like "oh its no big deal i dont care if someone sees my emails or pics anyway". I was fucking shocked. I would be so infuriated right away. Then he and a multiple other frienda of mine proceeded to call me paranoid for caring about my privacy.

You simply forgot a minor detail, you agreed to all that. Don't like it? Next time read the ULA, also there's plenty of alternatives you can duckduckgo it using Firefox for example. For every product google/MS/apple/etc have, there's a open source version of it.

Install Linux, install dns adblocker + adblcker browser extension, use privacy minded IM, use several emails for different things. It's not that hard, in one day you can have that done.

Its not just privacy. We are letting these fucks tell us what is true or not and dictate what is socially acceptable. We seen that major tech companies like google (and youtube), twitter, and facebook can unperson people online. We seen how something someone did or said in the past can be used to destroy their livelihood. We seen that in the UK that offending people or saying "unacceptable things" will land you in jail.

How hard will it be for companies like google and facebook to completely control our lives? These companies literally have the power to capture anything thing "objectionable" and spread it just to ruin your life.

We gave up much more then our freedom of privacy. Its only a matter of time before they realize just how much power they have and there is nothing you can do about it.

I can't fully understand why do you care that a multi-billion dollar company has a lot of data about you. What would they do with it other than ads? I don't care if a giant coopiration knows a lot about me, I care if indeviduals do. Indeviduals will judge me and can share it with other indeviduals

The problem most people have is they carry the mentality "if you're not doing anything illegal to piss off daddy government, you have nothing to worry about". Its the same thing as people talking to the cops. It never helps anything

This is demonstrably false, and a very popular misguided opinion. Google is extremely transparent about what data they collect and what they do with it. You’re just too lazy get information from anywhere but reddit comments.

95% of people i speak to tell me they dont care about the blatant invasion of privacy we live through daily. Usually respond with something like "i have nothing to hide". It drives me crazy that people just dont care about privacy. I think the years of posting our lives on social media has trained us to not care about privacy and now that companies are doing it no one cares.

I don’t know, I like google listening in. I don’t care too much about my privacy as long as I at least kind of know what happens to it. But, you know, I trust google. I’ve never heard of any reports about google selling our information to weirdos on the dark web. But that’s just my take on it.

I don't think that's strictly true. The technology is there to do this and works already, it's called voice recognition and your phone does it quite comfortably with algorithms and sends the query as text. Phones are more than capable of listening passively and responding to triggers. The companies involved know this and have admitted as such, but they say that they choose not to unless activated by the user.

i dont know what the first step would be to "taking a stand" against anything bigger than myself. I'm all for painting a sign or sending letters but if its just one person hunting down CEOs to shake a finger at theres a massive chance you'll be stopped right out of the gate. we're hitting the age of apathy because, honestly, besides the news storm of people coming down on "evil companies" like google and facebook does anything ever really happen when they are found IN COURT to be in the wrong? No amount of penalty or bail is really even that large of a revenue percentage considering the size of these things

Why tho? What is there to fight for? why is your "privacy" so important? not a soul cares about things you buy on Amazon or porn that you watch. They want to sell you more products and you (presumably) want to see a bit more relevant ads

I once mentioned that I get a specific rash on my arm from an allergic reaction. A few days later I get an ad while browsing IG saying "do you get spontaneous rashes on your arm? Look no further! At cunts dermatology...."

Actually there are plenty of people who are fighting back. And the best way is to remove Google from your life. Slowly shift your services to companies that respect your privacy. Use FireFox instead of Chrome, iPhone instead of Android, Protonmail instead of Gmail, etc. Great article going into detail about Google's lack of privacy.

God, who cares? You're choosing to sign this privacy away in so many more ways than you realize anyways. It's 2019 and technology and convenience isn't free. Who cares if they know my shopping or viewing habits and target ads my way? Who cares if Facebook and Twitter know my political ideology? If I'm stupid enough to be influenced by their algorithms, I deserve it. Look, all I'm saying is that we've progressed to 2019 for a reason and despite your cries, you wouldn't want to go back to 1980 because if we did you'd likely be crying that the technology sucks and oh what you wouldn't do for Netflix and Google. You just can't have it both ways. Yes, there's SO much more that everyone could be doing to protect themselves and I'm not saying that the reach of these companies isn't likely out of control, but I also love the tech and the benefits it all brings to my life. So, I'm okay with it. Truthfully in most ways it does make my life better.

just an example but if you bought an android phone, you knew the software was made by google, and you knew you'd be putting all your personal shit on there and using it for everything, and you still voted with your money to buy it. so you arent in much of a position to complain about your privacy when you signed up for it all.

I don't think this opinion is "unpopular", so much as it hits on a very specific area of peoples' psyche where "they just don't want to think about it".

I've worked in politics, and also with nonprofits, and it's something I see all the time.

The amount of data that Google and Facebook publicly advertise for sale is absolutely terrifying; there's no telling what kind of data they actually have. It's already been proven that Facebook puts together "shadow profiles", both for users and for non-users. It's kind of an open secret that the future of marketing isn't just "advertising to people who want to buy your product", but instead manipulating people into buying your product. With enough money -- and really, not even that much -- you can control someone's entire reality.

But people don't want to think about it, because it makes them uncomfortable. More than they, if they acknowledge that there is a problem, then they must also acknowledge that they are allowing it to happen.

I'll compare this to another issue that was equally disheartening to me (probably even moreso).

I worked briefly with a group that hunted down and exposes sex-traffickers and child rapists. And they aren't operating in some remote African country, or even Eastern Europe or Latin America.

I'm talking guys hunting down and exposing sex-trafficking rings right here in the United States.This was a legit organization, formed of mostly former special ops guys, all extremely intelligent, whose job it was to track down little girls and boys who went missing, and bring the people behind it to justice.

But nobody would support that group.

It's because it was a truth so uncomfortable, people would rather bury their head in the sand than acknowledge it exists. Because if they acknowledge it, then that makes it real, which means they have to carry the guilt of how much they do or do not help.

Yet, people will throw money at animal groups all day long (not knocking animals groups, mind you).

Truth is, some truths are just so awful, people don't want to acknowledge they exist, because that means they have to acknowledge they're enabling the problem by not doing anything. Same deal with the Privacy crisis (and make no mistake, it is a crisis).

Google and Facebook could realistically sell elections to folks with enough money. And the NSA has just as much skin in the game, and those fuckers are Federally-funded and backed. People would rather chalk it up as "conspiracy theory", than face the truth that we're now living in a world where information is being weaponized against you. After all, if they don't already have dirt on virtually any prospective political candidate, it's not terribly hard to fabricate it anymore.

They know people won't fight back because they know they don't want to act like they have something to hide on the internet, since socially and publicly it's not an encouraged behavior, but if you want to change things you have to move on the public front.

The Patriot Act has nothing to do with private companies using your data.

That's not "monopolizing".

It's spelled "racketeering".

That's not racketeering.

And finally, you can't post some angsty shit about "not fighting back" (whatever that means) and then conclude with "but we can't possibly not use their services". That would be like the very first step of "fighting back".

I do think your opinion is very valid, but there are a couple points that are false or misleading. For example, no company listens in on 100% of conversation. I don't know where you got that, but I think I can see the misunderstanding coming from how Google Home or Alexa work. They only send information when you say the trigger word. Also, they don't tap phones. That's just fiction.

I think a main point of misunderstanding is about the patriot act. It only affects the government's power to collect information. Most people don't like it because the government can collect their information. However, it didn't give companies that same right. Technically, companies may be able to, but it is not legal in some of the situations here (especially tapping phones).

That being said, companies do tend to abuse the fact that you have to accept the TOS for their service. For example, Google was tracking location in a misleading way even when location tracking was set to off. Companies should be held accountable for misleading the public and collecting invasive information. And yes, alternative services to the big tech companies are really hard to integrate into your routine as well as the real deal. However, if you really are concerned about privacy, there are some good services. You doing take a look at duckduckgo, the Librem 5, and maybe Qubes OS. These are some very privacy focused tech alternatives.

I know I'm in the minority here but I don't care if companies somehow listen to my conversations I never have. I don't commit crimes so I've got nothing to hide and I like to think I'm pretty funny so if they listen they might laugh and as stupid as that sounds it's alright with me

That’s why the smart ones use iOS with privacy baked in. You pay for the product so they don’t spy on you for ads. The actual customer of google is the companies advertising not you, you’re the product. It’s important to keep emphasising this because people don’t seem to think about it.

I’m happy to use google and chrome but not give google all my photos and phone content.

Honestly I don't understand the right to privacy. I don't care if some company records me talking. I'm not doing anything illegal and have something to hide. I guess they could blackmail you but why would a corporation like google blackmail me? Google doesn't know or care who I am. And even if they did blackmail me, that's illegal and I have proof of it so I'm going to get rich off it. I don't understand why anyone should care?

unpopularer opinion (which I don't necessarily hold). We get a quite a bit in return from that loss of privacy.

Google gathers a lot of data on us. But in return we get things like self-driving cars and a database of everywhere we've been and a long memory of every e-mail we sent, and quite a lot more.

Like I said, I'm not necessarily of the view that the trade off is worth it. But there IS a trade-off. We give them some information, we lose some privacy, they give us technologically advanced products which are often free.

I think if we lost our privacy with nothing in return, we would probably get upset as a society. But since there is a trade-off, we can justify it to ourselves.

This is not an unpopular opinion.
Here's one. I don't give a shit what they do with my data. They don't hurt me by using my data so why should I complain. It's not like they record with my phone and send pictures of my peepee to random people. I DO THAT. But not google. So where's the problem?

Google doesn't negatively affect me in any capacity. in fact, they make my life a lot easier with their free apps and email. If they want to market the information I share (which is minimal) then go for it.

I disagree with this generation. You know, that Gen Z is more libertarian and in the US, more conservative. They recognise the fraudness of these companies, especially the mainstream media. So, I am positive about this generation.

As long as I'm concerned, and informed, I don't have any problem with Google knowing/using my data for marketing purposes, I don't think they could find anything more valuable than knowing which ads show to me. And I get free use of a multitude of services. I may be wrong, but I think this is a step closer to life simplification

Yes I agree, I think most of it is the feeling that the people truly in charge already know all they need to know about you and have the ability to find out the rest should they choose to do so, so generally people don't care.

But there are countries around the world trying to regulate this and ban too much control and surveillance. They banned facial recognition somewhere I don't remember like last week or something.

I know it is scary but in the end I believe things will balance themselves out, of they don't it's a digital dictatorship and someone help us if it comes to that.

If you wanted to fight back, you'd gather privacy individuals and invest time and money into simple background running applications which can use a shadow version of your browsers to send fake text, searches, etc, in order to overload their data collection with noise. Its like radio jamming.

If privacy is a concern to you, u can fight it by not using google. But I personally don’t care, if I was offered a more expensive product (ex. iPhone) vs a cheaper or free product that ignores my privacy (Android or most google services), I’d pick cheaper or free without even thinking about it. But if you want, you can go and pay for premium products

I've read about this and they don't keep track of everything we say(nor are they allowed).

For example: Take voice recognition like Alexa. Alexa hears everything but they aren't allowed to store our conversations unless the word Alexa (the magic word to get work done) is said. If you say 'Alexa tell me the score', it takes in the buffer, matches it to make sure you really said "alexa" and then acts on it. Otherwise it discards the whole recording

This is something that always pisses me off: People who demand the government interfere in their lives and then get pissed that the government is interfering in their lives.

"Oh no! Some people hijacked a plane and flew it into some buildings! Now we have to bug everybody's phone and monitor what they say on the internet!"

"Oh no! Somebody taught his dog to give a Nazi salute as a stupid prank! Now we have to lock him up and enact new laws to make sure that nobody can ever do that again!"

"Oh no! Somebody on the internet said something nasty to somebody else! We have to start a nationwide campaign to monitor what kids say to each other in case one of them has a peanut allergy and can't handle being exposed to nutty shit!"

People are always demanding the government get involved in their lives. Especially now in an age where nobody ever takes responsibility for their own stupidity, we demand the government come in with guns blazing to stop us from hurting ourselves.

So, of course, what does this have to do with Google? Well, who do you think is allowing Google to do any of this? If you believe in the idea that Google somehow owns the internet then you're using their property so what right do you have to complain about any of it?

When the internet was a free-for-all, you could say and do anything. So what happened? It wasn't big business, just FYI. It was groups of people who don't believe in common sense and teaching it. Instead they demanded that either companies policed themselves or the government was going to be asked to step in and do it for them. Well...don't blame Google. Do you really think they give a flying fuck? No, of course they don't. It's the screaming Bible thumpers and paranoid "progressives" who are demanding that we get babied from womb to crematorium. Fight them.

Give your email address for quick information or a chance to win a car

Deny climate change for cheap and easy oil today

Postmates / UberEats = more cost for less effort

All innovation essentially aims to make life easier while charging a premium for it. So the guy who uses the technology pays for it with their future/past labor, while the innovators past efforts to innovate are rewarded with future effortless monetary gain.

Business motivations are the manifestation of our collective short-term focus. People want it easy, and businesses do what it takes to supply that demand.

Honestly, I couldn't care less. Servers, tech, physical space and employees are expensive. If Google can pay for all of that while offering me a free service, who cares? Those services are invaluable to me. I have all of humanity's knowledge since the beginning of time in my fucking pocket, accessible for free at absolutely any time day or night. (internet or mobile costs aside, Google is free)

I use it multiple times a day, and there are hundreds of instances where I would have been shit out of luck without it like when I'm working on my car, or when I have a small health problem not worth going to the doctor for.

Also, think about what google does for the internet. With their power, they filter out all those shitty spammy blackhat websites that try to get you to buy some bullshit. Remember those single page ads with all the bright colors that scroll forever and try to get you to pay at the bottom? I haven't seen one of those from a google search for years. As far as I'm aware google has never pushed any sort of political or social agenda, which is saying something in 2019. The actual physical company is great to their employees from what I've heard, and I'm not aware of any exploitive labor in poor countries like so many other companies.

So they let businesses target ads to me... cool. It's not like they're using my data to target me with hitmen or something. The ads are usually very non-intrusive, and if I don't like the offer, I don't have to buy. I've actually found a few really good websites and services that I now use all the time because of google ads. I honestly see it as more of a symbiotic relationship. Google lets me use their cool shit for free, and once in a while their ads let me in on something cool, and they make money. They track my online activities so they can better target ads to me... cool. They need to pay for what they provide and those better-targeted ads might just lead me to something cool. I'm not looking at CP so whatever. If you really want to be anonymous, use a VPN.

The only google ads that annoy me a bit are youtube ads, but oh well. Youtube ads are a fraction of what you get on cable channels, which is a paid service. If I wanted I could get an adblocker, but I don't, because all this free cool stuff and legit youtube content is paid for by ads.

As for facebook, I have one but only go on there like once every couple months for 5 minutes. Facebook is toxic because of the people, and I don't really know much about their data/ad system. I don't have a twitter or Instagram or whatever. Don't need em.

Just want to mention here that I had a throwaway account subpoenaed to find my identity by an extremely scary govt agency in the US. Soooooo might wanna be careful when you're talking sht on Reddit or making up stories because you could end up in questioning or worse.

I’m with you, OP. I have been boycotting all Alphabet (Google) products and services for 6 months now. It is incredibly difficult. Nobody has even mentioned how they are helping the Russian and Chinese governments sensor the internet by developing web browsers that can sensor unfavorable content for their governments either. I believe everyone is entitled to free speech. Even the filthy commies.

What exactly are you doing that your so afraid that everyone knows about? A thought experiment you should try out......I realized, nothing...I am not really doing anything I am ashamed of, record away fuckers.....I have also found stoicism in the last few months, really helped with putting issues I had like this in perspective.

You're worried about Google listening in on conversations, when whites all over the whole planet are being invaded and genocidal population replacement is in full effect in EVERY SINGLE WHITE COUNTRY all over the whole globe that will destroy all white cultures in our own lifetime?

I've been able to disable those features and use my phone just fine. The only time this happens is when people skip past the terms and conditions of use. Plus, it is their product and they can alter their product how they wish and if you don't like, don't use it. I hear DuckDuckGo is a great alternative.

Right now nothing is going to be done about it. However, I believe in the future they will be brought up on charges for it along with Facebook and Apple. What they’re doing isn’t illegal but it’s technically not legal either. They found a real grey area. I really hope they’re stopped

Who actually gives a shit? Who has such a super secret lifestyle and such a large ego that they think the 0.01% of the high ups in the world give a shit about whether or not you smoke weed or like furry porn. I can say bomb all I want, I don't care if I get put on "watch list" because I'm not a terrorist and I don't do anything wrong. What is the actual concern here? What are you worried will happen with this lack of privacy?

For this exact reason myself and a couple good friends are developing security software at https://thecobet.com . We have ANSA, which shows you incoming and outgoing connections to your computer. Then we have XASE, an extremely secure web browser. Currently you can only get XASE on our discord. This is until it becomes in a 1.0 full release. I advise you to check it out if you feel a need for security.

This may sound ignorant but I really do nod care if say Google is listening. If it makes my life a tad bit easier like sparing me the need to search something since Google heard me earlier talk about it I'm like "great"

They 100% do. All of the time. There were cases last year where Amazon was court ordered to turn over Alexa recordings of entire crimes happening from their records. Facebook and Google do the same thing. You ever talk about something then see ads about it on YouTube and Facebook, etc? That's because you said a keyword for a matching ad in their database so they serve you ads for it.

Even smart TV manufacturers like LG have admitted that their TV's are always listening to you and if you have something private to say don't say it near their TV's.

There were cases last year where Amazon was court ordered to turn over alexa recordings.

Point 1: Alexa needs to always listen to your conversations to here the voice commands.

Point 2: In that court case, amazon refused to give the recordings.

Point 3: If you are going to agree to Amazon's guidelines then you give up your privacy automatically and because a smart speaker isn't something as essential as a phone they willingly make that choice.

Point 4: Even an real life personal assistant would say such information to a court so it isn't much different

Facebook and Google do the same thing.

Point 1: No they don't.

Point 2: The difference between google and Alexa is that people mainly use google stuff on their laptops and phones.

You ever talk about something and see ads on Facebook or Youtube?

Point 1: These ads are explained in he video i linked at the end of the video.

Point 2: If your friend is talking about some popular thing its probably just coincidence.

Point 3: You probably have similar interests to those of your friends so the algorithm shows you similar ads.

Point 4: If your are friends on Facebook with one of your friends it will realise that he searched up something earlier and will show you ads about it.

All in all I was only talking about google and facebook not Alexa or LG. You probably should watch the video it also has some decent points.

And to add to this people for ages thought the NSA could here the contents of phone calls but as Edward Snowden confirmed, they cant.

Don't buy into this techno future where they collect info to make better products for you. It seems innocuous now, but one day we will wake up and find ourselves totally reliant on google to even use the bathroom. And then we will be in their pocket. Google has detected you voted for the wrong person, we are turning off your running water for one week to offset the harm you've caused. Trust us, we are moral gods.

(They can't turn off the city water yet, but they can disable any of your IOT connected appliances. No google toilet for a week, bigot)

Do we really need to see the black-mirror-esque dystopia manifest in our reality to know that it's bad? Can we maybe stop being so lazy now?

I don't care, people need to understand that it's just algorithms processing your data, it's not like there is an actual person looking through your data and then selecting stuff that is relevant to you and then presenting it back to you. People are way too paranoid.

Well that's because I really don't give a shit. I mean they can spy on me all they want, it affects me little. In fact if anything it makes my life easier since things are more in line with my needs due to it. I'm not a murder, I don't break laws, and if some one wants to know I look up Fallout lore so that I get adds for games instead of tampons all the power to them.

First of all - we really need to get rid of the aluminium foil hats. It's not like all devices spy on us 24/7 and log our talks. You can already change every phone in a way to keep your personal stuff. You can even run a phone without Google at all. There's a bit too much theories going on with a load of FUD.

That said, the main problem IMHO is not the big Tech corps getting our data. The problem is, there is no government or even international institution that monitors said data and companies. And the following of the data protection rules.

Like the EU basically decided on upload filters but there's no rush driven agency that overwatches what gets censured and what not. That is a huge deal.

This is where we're really lacking. The control mechanism. The EU data protection stuff was the first good step in the right direction.

I want an actual functional personal assistant. One that knows my likes and dislikes and I can ask questions to and get better answers other than here's a website you might be interested in.
Google is the only one I think has the potential to pull that off right now. I quit doing drugs so I'm no longer involved in the illegal activity what the f*** do I care if they read my email.

This is such a convenient viewpoint that stretches an accepted trade-off between convenience and data privacy into some gigantic scandal.

If Google starts selling a no-data-collection 'prime' service for $10/mo, how many of us would actually subscribe? Everyone is outraged that they collect data to run their business and develop tech, but a very small percentage of us would actually pay to stop that data collection.

What that means is that people expect digital services as if they are birthrights, not business services. We love to be outraged, but I doubt all the complainers would put their money where their mouth is to stop data collection

The biggest secret is that you can already replace Google and tons of other services that profit off of your data without compensating you, but because that doesn't make anyone any money (except you, maybe), you'll never see an advertisement for it.

Check out all the things you can self host for free just by owning a computer.

Ya know, you were doing great till you ended with "any commenter are just freedom haters" That makes it clear your not going to listen to any logic that doesn't fit your view. Don't know why I'm even wasting my time writing this, but ya had good points till you shut down opposing veiws before they even got brought up.

I agree with your general argument, however Google isn't the government and doesn't need a warrant to collect your information and data. Somewhere along the line, you have agreed to allow Google to use your data how it sees fit.

real unpopular opinion: I dont give a monkeys uncle about privacy from governments and corperations. I've been embarrassed about so many things in my short life that there's nothing I have or do that could embarrass me for someone else to find out. who cares if some salaryman knows I dance to He-Man in just my socks or if some goverment employee knows what I said to Larry last month. it's not like these corporations are gossiping to my direct circle of 4 friends, and even if they were, they're my friends so they wouldnt care either. they mostly just want this data to push better targeted ads, which is fine by me. I'd way rather have an ad for the newest hot shit in gaming than an ad for erectile dysfunction pills or beauty products. if I get an ad for some embarrassing incriminating item like a butt plug or something, who cares. maybe it'll get a laugh out of whoever sees it.

I don't hate freedom I just don't care about privacy. if anything, that's more freeing. I don't have to worry about who sees or gets what information or what to ToS say or what I say on those services because I just don't care who sees

I mean they only sell it so that they can give us ads just because they are tracking our messages doesn’t mean they are looking at it. Even if they are they don’t know who you are personally. Hypothetically if someone who worked for google was just watching you go through things and saw you had a midget tentacle hentai drowning in piss fetish they would care.

It's unpopular, IMO, because it is inherently illogical as mindsets go.

First off, what is the scope of what constitutes "nothing" or not? If it is in regards to being open about specific information in a specific case, it can exist - but outside of that, it can't, IMO, since privacy is hiding. That you keep drapes on your windows, that you have doors for your batrhrooms, that you don't share social security #s and credit card info freely, that's still hiding.

The "nothing to hide" argument makes the mistake of ignoring that privacy is hiding, and also seems to use this ignorance to act like the act of hiding itself is bad - which is patently absurd.

You did say it was okay OP. This is what our elected representatives have done to their constituents and citizens in this country. Theyve sold their citizens privacy to corporate America for those sweet kickbacks (McConnell)

Thats why there needs to be a voting cap at 65, you retire from the workforce, you retire from voting and swaying the direction of this country. Statistically older generations vote with similar individuals (see AOC)

So be careful who you vote for and we shoudnt be afraid to march of Governors mansions and other political holdouts. March and protest peacefully. I believe in America, its just been designed to dumb us down with entertainment overload.

I understand that this is morally wrong(and I don't want some faceless corporation intruding on my privacy) but what's the worst consequence that could happen if some anonymous tech giant secretly listens to my conversations with families and friends? I'm just a normal guy who goes to work, has some hobbies and talks to his family and friends. I don't really have anything to hide?

Unless there's some way that they can get me arrested for saying something controversial to someone on the phone?

I understand that this is morally wrong(and I don't want some faceless corporation intruding on my privacy) but what's the worst consequence that could happen if some anonymous tech giant secretly listens to my conversations with families and friends? I'm just a normal guy who goes to work, has some hobbies and talks to his family and friends. I don't really have anything to hide? Unless there's some way that the government can get me arrested for saying something politically controversial to someone on the phone?

The sad part is that it's so true. I have tech friends who are all drinking the Kool-Aid, too! People who are intelligent and know better. That doesn't stop them from running out and buying that round disc that accesses everything in their lives from their browser history to their climate control at home. It's sad that the human race has devolved to such lows.

Especially within a country (USA) that fought so hard to preserve that right. Yet people are so willing to just hand it over.

Use DuckDuckGo. They are committed to having a free and open internet with no spying and they do not look at or sell your data. They are a direct Google competitor and they know that people care about their privacy. Start changing your browser to DuckDuckGo. Download the Brave browser, it’s available on all platforms and it is basically Chrome but without all the google shit. You can still download extensions too, but it has an Adblock and track block built-in.

If you’re really concerned about your privacy, do not give any apps the rights to your microphone or camera, as they can use it to listen to you or take pictures unknowingly.

Your opinion should be unpopular because it conveys a factual misunderstanding of the technologies and legal issues involved and makes it harder to have an informed discussion that can lead to relevant change.

This is more of a post for the conspiracy sub than here. It was always legal for someone to record you if you consented.

without even asking us if it is okay.

This part of your post is factually wrong. You consented to this by agreeing to the terms of service.

If you don't agree then you can't use the phone

You seem unclear about how the technology works in this case. What is tracking and recording your data are the applications on your phone, not the phone itself. Some of these applications, such as google assistant are native to the operating system. While microphone access is enabled by default for the "Google" application there is a way to turn it off. On top of this your phone itself can be used with a variety of different operating systems other than android (iOS, less so).

right to privacy

At least in the United States, this isn't true in the sense that you are using it. The only way in which privacy is a "right" is in terms of legal protection from prosecution from the government as covered in aspects of some amendments. While there are very fundamental laws that expand on the scope of privacy pertaining to things other than the government, none of them are considered "rights".

The other thing that you seem to be forgetting is that the benefit to the consumer isn't just convenience, it's cost. If you think about all of the services that you get that you don't have to pay for and how much those cost to maintain and develop it is insane.

There are really good arguments to be made against the current incarnation of privacy in our applications, but none of them are made here. The issue of transparency (what application has what permissions and when is it using them) is something that has gotten better, but still needs work. More generally the "terms and conditions" section for most things has gotten out of hand to the point where the average consumer has neither the time nor the expertise to adequately understand what they are agreeing to. There are also plenty of consumer advocacy issues that need to be dealt with such as, right to repair, carrier locking, os locking (apple), etc., and the very real legal issue of governments refusing to allow encrypted services to exist with common carrier protections. Having someone with little understanding of any of the actual issues spout of nonsense about "monopolizing", wire tapping, and the patriot act only hurts our ability to address the real concerns that exist.

No one seems to care or even know about this. I personally can't help but feel this is like a MAJOR issue. The number one search engine in the world is filtering and biasedly showing you what it wants you to see.

Oh man, why don't you just shut it. This argument is so hypocritical and so one-sided. Yes, they are taking your data and yes, Google probably knows a bunch of uncomfortable details about your life. But honestly, all the things we use on a daily basis, like Google Maps, Payment systems and all the millions of Software integrations that make communication and organisation of daily life easier every day just wouldn't be possible without Bid Data.

So either you accept the little inconvenience that they have a large digital footprint of your identity or you go back to living without all that technology, like a fucking caveman. And I don't see you or anyone that I know willingly do that, because the convenience to have these things is just waaay bigger than the virtual nonexistence of an inconvenience that Big Data causes to the individual.

What's worse than these mega corps eavesdropping/spying on everything you do and say is that they'll give that info to any law enforcement entity that asks for it, no warrant necessary. It's almost like it was designed to bypass our fourth amendment right to privacy. If the govt listens in on convos w/o a warrant it's a no-no but if a corp does it and then GIVES it to L.E. it's fine. Under Bush Jr An ex CIA/NSA/FBI contractor, William Binney,designed a mass surveillance system code name, Hammer, that could listen in on anyone anywhere and store it for recall. He gave dozens of storage devices with tens of millions of documents to the FBI(who buried it)proving the CIA/NSA under Obama was spying on politicians, judges,business leaders and using that info for their own ends. Idk what its going to take for people to finally see that there is no privacy,the govt doesn't work for u and you have no constitutional rights and if that doesn't make u want to fight back than you don't deserve them. The unfortunate truth is that we as a country r ten-ply soft and act like sending out a snarky tweet is the same thing as actually standing up for ourselves

Totally agree. It's why I completely ignore Facebook, other than to post pics from Instagram so people can see how mundane my life is!

I do not have an Alexa. I do not use Android. And I use Siri, but it's only a matter of time before she gets creepy.

Also, now Facebook/Amazon/Google are limiting what you can see or read on the Internet, cutting off access to people they don't agree with. Sure, those people that get shadow banned are outright cuckoo weirdos like Alex Jones or racist black supremacists like Louis Farrakhan.

But you can ignore people. You don't have to stay on the channel or page. You can keep scrolling.

People have become so docile and weak that they need safe spaces.

What happened to the America where idiots speak their mind and the public mocks them?

That doesn't exist anymore. Now, you get a trophy! Everyone gets a trophy.

if you have nothing to hide then why try fighting a cause that requires more than what you can fight... we would need so many people and can’t get so many people to actually budge anything. this is what we get when we want convenience.

If it's a question of paying for a service or a "free" service that targets me with ads, I'd choose the targeted ads. I can easily not buy the thing they advertise. And I might get an ad for something useful.

The best thing to do is fight with your choices. Stop using Chrome; get rid of that Gmail account; stop using Google Drive; use Bing or DuckDuckGo; get off of Facebook/Twitter/Instagram (I know that's not Google, but they're no different except in scale).

Only then will these companies feel the burn. But millions have to take part.

I signed up for a ProtonMail email account just this past week - you should too.

Nobody cares and nobody every will. I stopped believing in change a long time ago and you should stop believing now. Just try to live your best life possible because that's all you can achieve in the current state of affairs.

This is dumb without Google we wouldn't have YouTube as a giant platform, we wouldn't have Gmail, Google Drive, Google AI experiment, Google Docs, Google Sheets, all of that, we wouldn't have an extremely fast, reliable search engine, we wouldn't have personalized ads, so that advertisers could actually make money from their ads, the Internet as it is wouldn't exist without Google. It is possibly the most influential technology company alongside Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, and Facebook.

The convenience is too appealing for a lot of people. It would be nice if the services provided by Google weren't becoming increasingly requisite, because that degrades the ability to choose. The market cannot punish behavior if there are no alternatives. A monopolized market is not a free market. The trouble is that in order to enforce anti-trust laws, one would have to identify what Google has a monopoly over and whether or not such grey-area parameters qualify for legal ramifications.

Because westerners are cucked and they don't even know it. All around the world you have people living in despair because of corrupt politicians and oligarchs who control their world, and there's nothing most of them can do about it. Here in America people line up to worship their politicians, billionaires, hollywood actors, athletes, etc..

At least most immigrants have enough sense to idolize their mothers and fathers the most, unlike the anglo Americans who would prefer being proud slaves to the wealthy elite.

I was a fighter for privacy and awareness about these kind of things up until a few years ago. People laughed at me and called me mr conspiracy theory at work so I stopped. Then the Snowden stuff happened and still nobody gave a shit. So I also stopped giving a shit. It's useless. People are fucking morons that don't care until it's too late. You can't fight stupidity.

Remember when Alexa was recording that family's conversations and then emailing them to a random person in the wife's contact list? Amazon was all, "Oh, this was just a one time fluke, we have the problem under control, thank you for bringing this to our attention, we don't record your conversations, blah blah blah."

Yah riiiiiight!

"Apparently, one of Amazon.com’s Alexa-powered Echo devices in their house had silently sent recordings to the caller without the family’s permission, according to KIRO 7, a news station covering Seattle and western Washington state that first reported the story. The person, an employee of the husband, was in the family’s contact list.

“My husband and I would joke and say, ‘I’d bet these devices are listening to what we’re saying,’ ” a woman who identified herself only by her first name, Danielle, told KIRO. She added that the device did not tell her that it would be sending the recorded conversations."

Amazon said in an emailed statement to The Washington Post on Thursday afternoon that the Echo woke up when it heard a word that sounded like “Alexa.” “The subsequent conversation was heard as a ‘send message’ request. At which point, Alexa said out loud ‘To whom?’ At which point, the background conversation was interpreted as a name in the customer's contact list."

This isn’t the first time that Amazon's smart speaker has garnered scrutiny over potential eavesdropping. Last month, researchers discovered a flaw in the Alexa voice assistant, enabling an Echo to continue listening to people without them knowing. The devices are supposed to record audio only after users issue a voice command, known as a “wake word.” Amazon quickly fixed the vulnerability after researchers alerted the company.

That (fixed) problem has nothing to do with the article you linked.. In the article you linked, normal conversation was interpreted as a voice command.

There's no way around this. If you say something close enough to "alexa" (or another chosen wakeword), anything said immediately afterwards will be evaluated as a command. It's just that, in this case, the conversation happened to line up with legitimate commands.

It's random when people have no idea that they accidentally triggered the prompt, and that happens constantly because of the faulty software. If the software is so bad that it's constantly mishearing the trigger word, that is "without your knowledge", and "accidental" since there is no consistency or reliability. You have to basically just assume Alexa is always listening.

If the software is so bad that it's constantly mishearing the trigger word

It isn't. Your article is a year old, which is an eternity in tech, and it's a lot more accurate nowadays. "Constantly" is a mischaracterization of a single incident.

There's a tradeoff to be made here besides, and that's that the tighter the recognition is, the more likely it is to not trigger when you do want it to work, which is a lot more annoying to a lot more people at the end of the day.

You have to basically just assume Alexa is always listening.

Utter nonsense. I've got a house full of Echos, and accidental wakeups are rare; maybe a couple of times a month, and usually caused by the TV.

Utter nonsense. I've got a house full of Echos, and accidental wakeups are rare; maybe a couple of times a month.

Only the original article I posted about the couple whose Alexa sent their recorded conversations was a year old.

Oh, and I also just found this, from December 2018

Unfortunately, a case from Germany has highlighted the potential pitfalls involved with using such a product, when Amazon accidentally sent a man 1,700 Alexa voice recordings of another user by mistake, according to German magazine c’t.

Upon listening to the files, Schneider discovered they were the recordings of another Alexa user. After failing to get in contact with Amazon about the issue, the man brought the files to c’t, where reporters were able to piece together who the Alexa user was. Among the files were commands to control Spotify, the person’s home thermostat, and alarms. There were also recordings that indicated the Alexa user also owned a Fire TV, and that they had a spouse who appeared to live in the home.

At the end of the day, this amounts to 90% media fearmongering, based on a kernel of truth (that voice-based interfaces can mishear and are tuned to produce false positives rather than false negatives because the opposite is more annoying).

Which is why I have the volume on mine turned up. If mine wakes up, the chime is unmistakable.

At the end of the day, though, I'm not the least bit worried by an accidental wakeup. The worst that's going to happen is that whatever nonsense is going on will either be silently ignored (the improvements I was talking about) or prompt a nonsense question with a "Sorry, I don't know that one" response.

A team at Amazon that includes both full-time employees and contractors listens to people's audio snippets recorded by devices with the company's Alexa assistant installed, according to a Bloomberg report.

Seven people, described as having worked in Amazon's voice review program, told Bloomberg that they sometimes listen to as many as 1,000 recordings per shift, and that the recordings are associated with the customer's first name, their device's serial number, and an account number. Among other clips, these employees and contractors said they've reviewed recordings of what seemed to be a woman singing in the shower, a child screaming, and a sexual assault. Sometimes, when recordings were difficult to understand — or when they were amusing — team members shared them in an internal chat room, according to Bloomberg.

Many smart-speaker owners don’t realize it, but Amazon keeps a copy of everything Alexa records after it hears its name. Apple’s Siri, and until recently Google’s Assistant, by default also keep recordings to help train their artificial intelligences.

So come with me on an unwelcome walk down memory lane. I listened to four years of my Alexa archive and found thousands of fragments of my life: spaghetti-timer requests, joking houseguests and random snippets of “Downton Abbey.” There were even sensitive conversations that somehow triggered Alexa’s “wake word” to start recording, including my family discussing medication and a friend conducting a business deal.

Alexa keeps a record of what it hears every time an Echo speaker activates. It’s supposed to only record with a “wake word” — “Alexa!” — but anyone with one of these devices knows they go rogue. I counted dozens of times when mine recorded without a legitimate prompt. (Amazon says it has improved the accuracy of “Alexa” as a wake word by 50% over the past year.)

A team at Amazon that includes both full-time employees and contractors listens to people's audio snippets recorded by devices with the company's Alexa assistant installed, according to a Bloomberg report.

Yep. You can listen to your own recordings on the app. This is known and expected behavior. Everything after the wake word gets pushed up for voice recognition. Of course Amazon people are going to use those recordings to improve the service.

I counted dozens of times when mine recorded without a legitimate prompt.

We're in an era where almost every single human being has unfettered access to unlimited information, and the ability to spread this information. Many people are aware of how we're being taken advantage of by both corporations and corrupt politicians. We have extremely capable, high powered communications devices on our persons at all times, with cameras that are now matching what you would see professionally.

What do we do? We share videos of people fighting and embarrassing themselves. We turn strippers, obnoxious teenagers, and insufferable bigots (on both sides of the spectrum) into celebrities. We ignore fighting the clear and present assault on the working and lower class. We get more upset at how cartoons and video games portray marginalized groups of people than we are by institutions and sociopolitical systems that have made it a very unsubtle goal to inconvenience and stifle marginalized people. We gladly give up our privacy and let God-knows-who sell aspects of our lives and personality to advertisers, so we can consume more, and show off worthless trinkets to our peers and act like we're on top of things.

How do we know that there have not been people that have planned to fight back, but they talked about it around their phone or Alexa and Google then notifies the police and the police go round them up and make them disappear?

I knew they were listening when we merely talked about low calorie dog food and right afterwards we got a coupon in my email for the exact thing we had just talked about. We hadn't searched for it and this had been the first discussion about it.

Then we mentioned the possibility of getting new windows. A few days later we were inundated with snail mail flyers from window companies.

I'd love to hear a way to fight back against these big tech companies but I don't think we can. I do completely agree with you but I just don't see a way that your average American could fight a tech giant.

The fact is - a lot of the convenience that we rely on these days (think maps with traffic info) HAS to have data to work. Who will provide this data? Not you? So it's up to everyone else to subsidize your "anti-data" stance?

I'm gonna just say this real fast: I don't care. Companies are going to push ads in our face 24/7, so whether they're targeted to me or not? I don't care. If you put your data online, it's gonna get stolen. Yeah it sucks but it also keeps the internet free.