Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts

Its funny to consider him as probably the 4th or 5th fastest guy on the team, but he is, but again, thats not exactly saying he's slow at all, he's a low 4.4 guy from what i've seen of him. He'll get burnt by Dior Mathis, Kenjon, LaMike, and possibly Josh Huff, but he's a really fast guy.

Some of ya'll are getting a lil too bent out of shape with this 40. When I've watched him, I saw was a ball-hawk, a elite return man, and a play-maker.

I'm not trying to knock him at all, because like I said before I would consider him still, because he is a good zone corner.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts

He's small and doesn't really stand out with speed or burst to make up for it. With that being said, he turns and runs well, has great instincts and proven production/playmaking. I think he'll be a 2nd rounder because of measurables but he can be a starting corner.

I've seen him run at UO and he's hardly slower than Kenjon, Dior, and LaMike (They all lined up and raced, Kenjon burnt everyone and then it was about even) and i can tell you that he is right on par with those guys. They are all about mid to high 4.4 guys, and Kenjon is a legit 4.3 guy IMO.

....is he though, or are you going by the inaccurate forty time? I've never seen much to suggest he was better in zone than man. He's 165 pounds.

I could've sworn they were playing zone against Auburn that game he had the pick.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts

Yeah...our electronic times during winter testing are always off by a tenth or two or twelve, whether it be due to the timer itself, the lack of formality and preparation by the player, or often a combination of the two, the times always look slow.

If you want to evaluate the speed of an Oregon player, their goducks profile is the last place to look. As many in this thread are aware it's pretty easy to just pay attention during games.

These are some of the fastest guys in college football. I think everyone would be surprised to see James above a 4.4 at the combine.

Oregon clocked Jeff Maehl at 4.77...he ran a 4.62 at the combine.

DJ Davis was our "fastest player" last year with a 4.62.

Eddie Pleasant was our "fastest defender" in last year's testing with a 4.74 time.

Our "fastest" DB in '09 was Chad Peppars with a 4.73....Both TJ Ward and Patrick Chung posted a 4.54 at the combine.

The time that should be in people's heads for Cliff is in that 4.42-4.48 range. Not much to say to a person who thinks Chung and Ward are faster than Harris.

To me, Haloti Ngata is the only player I've seen at Oregon who was a better NFL prospect. Cliff has elite cover skills/playmaking ability. Those who don't see Cliff as a 1st round talent either don't know how to evaluate corners or haven't seen much of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716

I'm not trying to knock him at all, because like I said before I would consider him still, because he is a good zone corner.

Yeah...hate to be rude but you're talking out of your ass in this thread. It appears as though you've formed your entire opinion based on your reaction to that inaccurate blurb in his profile.

While Cliff is surprisingly physical for his size and has excellent range, his talents would be wasted in a zone-based scheme. He's far less valuable to teams who primarily run cover 2. He is among the best pure cover corners we've seen in college football. We're talking about a guy who has the potential to shut down his side of the field in the NFL. This isn't a raw developmental specimen like we often see at this stage of a career. Not a lot of wondering as to whether he can develop the essential skills to be successful at the NFL level.

Cliff Harris utilizes near flawless technique and timing to get to where he needs to be in the defensive backfield. He is very advanced from a technical standpoint and that was obvious by watching him even in HS. He has the awareness and ability to effectively switch to a free safety mid-play and make an impact. Seriously, go to TYT or something and watch him on every play. To attach the obscene 4.79 number to him and consequently write him off as a "good" zone corner is just ridiculous. The only thing keeping him out of the first half of the 1st round is he won't blaze the turf in Indy. Guys like Mayock will be gushing over the tape ad nauseam leading up to the draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716

I could've sworn they were playing zone against Auburn that game he had the pick.

Our corners primarily play man in Aliotti's defense, but the scheme itself is extremely complex for a college defense. It's a sort of hybrid 3-4 with tons of zone blitzing and relies quite a bit on deception both with coverages and pressure. I don't proclaim to know everything that's going on back there while watching the ducks, but you can see that they are constantly making adjustments pre-play based on the formations and pre-snap movements of the offense. So yeah sometimes the DB's end up in zone.

On the play you're talking about, it does appear we were playing zone because Boyett leaves the slot as he breaks outside. Cliff kinda hangs back because he still has the slot guy in front of him and knows he can close if the pass heads that way. Newton makes a dumb throw with his a + b = c genius QB mind, and Cliff gets the easy pick thanks to his range and confidence.

It was his non-interception that was a perfect example of what I described above about him being able to effectively switch to FS mid-play and make an impact away from his man. This is a good play to go back and watch if you want some illustration to what makes him a great corner prospect.

Auburn was in a trips right set. Harris had the flanker, Jackson had the slot, and I believe it was Javes Lewis who had the split end but not sure it may have been one of the other safeties.

All 3 were in man while the deep safety provided insurance.

The flanker ran a go, the slot ran a out and up, and the split end ran a post.

With his eyes on both Newton and his man the entire time, Harris effectively covers his man and makes an instant, yet smooth break on the pass to the outside as soon as Newton commits. He picks off the pass but juggles the ball as he falls out of bounds. I mean Jackson is beat despite being right there with his guy the entire time and here comes Cliff after already having neutralized his man to make a play that would have been 1st and goal otherwise. He essentially shut down the entire right side of the field. This is a great example of Cliff's exceptional technique, body control and awareness. It all adds up to great range. He covers an absurd amount of ground once the ball is in the air because he reacts instantly and precisely with great technique. Minimal wasted movement is a big reason he's great in coverage. Just watch this play and you'll see everything you need to know in a nutshell as to why he's considered an elite prospect. He made a rare play look very easy. It's quite evident that his ability to read what's happening out there is at an elite level. Combine that with his natural fluidity and he is extremely difficult to throw on because like Deion, a QB can be fooled into thinking he's making the right throw. Seriously, this is an elite cover corner we're talking about here.

But hey, I'm just a Duck fan so we can wait for guys like Mayock to illustrate these points so it'll be official.

Yeah...our electronic times during winter testing are always off by a tenth or two or twelve, whether it be due to the timer itself, the lack of formality and preparation by the player, or often a combination of the two, the times always look slow.

If you want to evaluate the speed of an Oregon player, their goducks profile is the last place to look. As many in this thread are aware it's pretty easy to just pay attention during games.

These are some of the fastest guys in college football. I think everyone would be surprised to see James above a 4.4 at the combine.

Oregon clocked Jeff Maehl at 4.77...he ran a 4.62 at the combine.

DJ Davis was our "fastest player" last year with a 4.62.

Eddie Pleasant was our "fastest defender" in last year's testing with a 4.74 time.

Our "fastest" DB in '09 was Chad Peppars with a 4.73....Both TJ Ward and Patrick Chung posted a 4.54 at the combine.

The time that should be in people's heads for Cliff is in that 4.42-4.48 range. Not much to say to a person who thinks Chung and Ward are faster than Harris.

To me, Haloti Ngata is the only player I've seen at Oregon who was a better NFL prospect. Cliff has elite cover skills/playmaking ability. Those who don't see Cliff as a 1st round talent either don't know how to evaluate corners or haven't seen much of him.

Yeah...hate to be rude but you're talking out of your ass in this thread. It appears as though you've formed your entire opinion based on your reaction to that inaccurate blurb in his profile.

While Cliff is surprisingly physical for his size and has excellent range, his talents would be wasted in a zone-based scheme. He's far less valuable to teams who primarily run cover 2. He is among the best pure cover corners we've seen in college football. We're talking about a guy who has the potential to shut down his side of the field in the NFL. This isn't a raw developmental specimen like we often see at this stage of a career. Not a lot of wondering as to whether he can develop the essential skills to be successful at the NFL level.

Cliff Harris utilizes near flawless technique and timing to get to where he needs to be in the defensive backfield. He is very advanced from a technical standpoint and that was obvious by watching him even in HS. He has the awareness and ability to effectively switch to a free safety mid-play and make an impact. Seriously, go to TYT or something and watch him on every play. To attach the obscene 4.79 number to him and consequently write him off as a "good" zone corner is just ridiculous. The only thing keeping him out of the first half of the 1st round is he won't blaze the turf in Indy. Guys like Mayock will be gushing over the tape ad nauseam leading up to the draft.

Our corners primarily play man in Aliotti's defense, but the scheme itself is extremely complex for a college defense. It's a sort of hybrid 3-4 with tons of zone blitzing and relies quite a bit on deception both with coverages and pressure. I don't proclaim to know everything that's going on back there while watching the ducks, but you can see that they are constantly making adjustments pre-play based on the formations and pre-snap movements of the offense. So yeah sometimes the DB's end up in zone.

On the play you're talking about, it does appear we were playing zone because Boyett leaves the slot as he breaks outside. Cliff kinda hangs back because he still has the slot guy in front of him and knows he can close if the pass heads that way. Newton makes a dumb throw with his a + b = c genius QB mind, and Cliff gets the easy pick thanks to his range and confidence.

It was his non-interception that was a perfect example of what I described above about him being able to effectively switch to FS mid-play and make an impact away from his man. This is a good play to go back and watch if you want some illustration to what makes him a great corner prospect.

Auburn was in a trips right set. Harris had the flanker, Jackson had the slot, and I believe it was Javes Lewis who had the split end but not sure it may have been one of the other safeties.

All 3 were in man while the deep safety provided insurance.

The flanker ran a go, the slot ran a out and up, and the split end ran a post.

With his eyes on both Newton and his man the entire time, Harris effectively covers his man and makes an instant, yet smooth break on the pass to the outside as soon as Newton commits. He picks off the pass but juggles the ball as he falls out of bounds. I mean Jackson is beat despite being right there with his guy the entire time and here comes Cliff after already having neutralized his man to make a play that would have been 1st and goal otherwise. He essentially shut down the entire right side of the field. This is a great example of Cliff's exceptional technique, body control and awareness. It all adds up to great range. He covers an absurd amount of ground once the ball is in the air because he reacts instantly and precisely with great technique. Minimal wasted movement is a big reason he's great in coverage. Just watch this play and you'll see everything you need to know in a nutshell as to why he's considered an elite prospect. He made a rare play look very easy. It's quite evident that his ability to read what's happening out there is at an elite level. Combine that with his natural fluidity and he is extremely difficult to throw on because like Deion, a QB can be fooled into thinking he's making the right throw. Seriously, this is an elite cover corner we're talking about here.

But hey, I'm just a Duck fan so we can wait for guys like Mayock to illustrate these points so it'll be official.

How you figure I'm talking out my ass when all I did was post what they put out there. I was not trying to bash like I said once before, I would consider him as a prospect. I never watched Oregon this year but in the Auburn game, so that's to show I did not know the tendencies of their defense to play man over zone. I would love to pair him with Asante since we passed up on quite a few CBs.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts

How you figure I'm talking out my ass when all I did was post what they put out there. I was not trying to bash like I said once before, I would consider him as a prospect. I never watched Oregon this year but in the Auburn game, so that's to show I did not know the tendencies of their defense to play man over zone. I would love to pair him with Asante since we passed up on quite a few CBs.

Because you assumed he's a good zone corner based on his crappy 40 time.

Because you assumed he's a good zone corner based on his crappy 40 time.

Dude yall misinterpret every f*ckin thing! Didn't I say I could've sworn Oregon played zone because that's what I seen them playing against Auburn or appeared to be in.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts

Yah i know, it was more about the "he's got runnin from the cops speed" part. I've seen him use that speed...lol. And yah i knew that Clifford Harris is TI as well, but i thought i'd keep this about the "Lock Sh!t down" Cliff Harris.

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown
The most important thing, however, is how strong their swagger factors are.
Newton
South of the Mason Dixon +10 swagger
Barely literate +5 swagger
Thief +15 swagger
Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
Big, average speed -3 swagger
Hasn't done jacksquat on the field +15 swagger
Total Swagger: 62ATL College Park Zone 3* +20 swagger Bonus pts