Zombie, just watched PR in 3d and WOW! Loved it! Really great depth throughout and even a few cool popout moments here and there. Awesome blind buy! The section from the 1:10 mark up until the 1:30 mark is killer all around demo material! This is 20 minutes of insanely FUN HT action!

My house was rocking during this movie, subs & buttkickers in overdrive.. .

After three replacement 2.4 HP screens, Da-Lite allowed me to upgrade to a 133" JKP 1.1 for a reasonable fee. The JKP surface is clearly superior. If you can get an old 2.8 in good condition, that is another story.

Though the HP 2.4 gain screen isn't as perfectly smooth as a non-gain screen, I have never seen any streaking in black or white. I have the first generation (or close to) of the 2.4 screen though, I ordered mine literally a few days after they stopped selling the 2.8 (how annoying is that).

Honestly, it sounds like your issue is a reaction to the material in shipping either from the way they packed it or the climate, what part of the US do you live in?

Edit:
The only difference I notice between the 2.4 gain and other screens is that some screens have a smoother surface. I don't really want to call it a texture on the 2.4, though I suppose you could (but its so tiny), it's just not as smooth.

Though the HP 2.4 gain screen isn't as perfectly smooth as a non-gain screen, I have never seen any streaking in black or white. I have the first generation (or close to) of the 2.4 screen though, I ordered mine literally a few days after they stopped selling the 2.8 (how annoying is that).

Honestly, it sounds like your issue is a reaction to the material in shipping either from the way they packed it or the climate, what part of the US do you live in?

Edit:
The only difference I notice between the 2.4 gain and other screens is that some screens have a smoother surface. I don't really want to call it a texture on the 2.4, though I suppose you could (but its so tiny), it's just not as smooth.

Yeah in my case it's just not about the surface smoothness, there was clearly noticeable streaking during bright scenes, especially during camera pans. I got my first 2.4 HP in the beginning of January 2013, the second in the beginning of February 2013 and the third at the end of February 2013. I live in Finland (it's quite chilly in January and February) and the screens where shipped by air mail. But I'm not the only one with these issues:

The Benq w7000 is not Triple Flash / 144hz, this is reserved only for the latest Benqs (w1070, w1080, assuming w1400/1500?)...

The Epson is good for watching 3D movies on relatively new lamps, once the lamp wears in the ghosting will appear. Also, doing any 3D gaming on a NON-DLP is not realistic IMO, because you have to focus on such small details with your eyes that even a 1mm misaligned ghosting will strain them on tiny objects.

Coder, how long does it take before crosstalk and ghosting are affected by the lamp? Halfway through its life or more towards the end?

You're absolutely right about gaming on a non DLP. I haven't found a display yet that handles gaming without issues other then a DLP. But my 3D watching is primarily blu-rays and to be honest, I haven't found a game yet that really takes advantage of 3D enough to make me want to play in 3D. The most impressive 3D game I've played is Super Stardust HD on ps3. Looks great. Even on a non DLP display :-) Most first person shooters look terrible on a non DLP 3D display.

Something has struck my curiosity about the Epson projectors when it comes to 3D. Some people talked about having a lot of issues with crosstalk and ghosting. I've owned two 5020's and now a 5030 and have barely noticed it. And that's also with me keeping the glasses on high brightness setting. Is it possible that these projectors can show different levels of crosstalk per unit? I didn't know if maybe some people who complained about excessive crosstalk had a defective unit. Can one 5020 or 5030 show more crosstalk than another because of bad optics or something along those lines? Just curious

Yeah in my case it's just not about the surface smoothness, there was clearly noticeable streaking during bright scenes, especially during camera pans. I got my first 2.4 HP in the beginning of January 2013, the second in the beginning of February 2013 and the third at the end of February 2013. I live in Finland (it's quite chilly in January and February) and the screens where shipped by air mail. But I'm not the only one with these issues:

Yeah in my case it's just not about the surface smoothness, there was clearly noticeable streaking during bright scenes, especially during camera pans. I got my first 2.4 HP in the beginning of January 2013, the second in the beginning of February 2013 and the third at the end of February 2013. I live in Finland (it's quite chilly in January and February) and the screens where shipped by air mail. But I'm not the only one with these issues:

Too bad cause I really wanted to like the 2.4 HP, would have been a keeper if I just had gotten one without these issues.

Thanks for the info, that's too bad, but hopefully the issues have been rectified as the previous poster notes.

What really stinks is that they got rid of the 2.8 screen in the first place, who wants to join me in a PROTEST outside the Da-Lite HQ building...?

Does Da-Lite not understand that we many / most people would have gladly paid 50% more for the 2.8 gain HP, since they said the material was too expensive, was it?
I don't think it was, what I think happened is simply a management decision to end the product line and increase the profit margin by trying the 2.4 material.

That is what usually happens, a business guy gets a job and says ok now my goal is to increase profits and reduce costs, hence 2.4 gain material.
How about NO your job is to keep the customers satisfied first, then to reduce costs, and if you have to, simply raise prices on the best products.

Coder, how long does it take before crosstalk and ghosting are affected by the lamp? Halfway through its life or more towards the end?

You're absolutely right about gaming on a non DLP. I haven't found a display yet that handles gaming without issues other then a DLP. But my 3D watching is primarily blu-rays and to be honest, I haven't found a game yet that really takes advantage of 3D enough to make me want to play in 3D. The most impressive 3D game I've played is Super Stardust HD on ps3. Looks great. Even on a non DLP display :-) Most first person shooters look terrible on a non DLP 3D display.

Something has struck my curiosity about the Epson projectors when it comes to 3D. Some people talked about having a lot of issues with crosstalk and ghosting. I've owned two 5020's and now a 5030 and have barely noticed it. And that's also with me keeping the glasses on high brightness setting. Is it possible that these projectors can show different levels of crosstalk per unit? I didn't know if maybe some people who complained about excessive crosstalk had a defective unit. Can one 5020 or 5030 show more crosstalk than another because of bad optics or something along those lines? Just curious

I only used 3D on the Epsons maybe 25 hours (don't know exactly how long), I would say it was 2x ot 3x more noticeable after about 1000 to 1500 hours on the lamp, before that point it is probably ok to even play some games (but not all for me, to each their own though). I didn't play a 3D game until the lamp already had a thousand hours. I do not own the Epson, a friend of mine bought one and I went over there and watched it with him several times, he owns the 5010 though, not the 5020. Though I also saw the 5020 briefly, but didn't play any games on it.

Thanks for the info, that's too bad, but hopefully the issues have been rectified as the previous poster notes.

What really stinks is that they got rid of the 2.8 screen in the first place, who wants to join me in a PROTEST outside the Da-Lite HQ building...?

Does Da-Lite not understand that we many / most people would have gladly paid 50% more for the 2.8 gain HP, since they said the material was too expensive, was it?
I don't think it was, what I think happened is simply a management decision to end the product line and increase the profit margin by trying the 2.4 material.

That is what usually happens, a business guy gets a job and says ok now my goal is to increase profits and reduce costs, hence 2.4 gain material.
How about NO your job is to keep the customers satisfied first, then to reduce costs, and if you have to, simply raise prices on the best products.

I also do hope that Da-Lite fixed the issue but I'm not keeping my hopes up as they never once acknowledged my issue. They claimed they didn't see the issue on my pictures and my last replacement screen underwent an extra "quality check" and they weren't able to see any issues. Although I guess admitting you have a faulty product isn't good business unless you have a fix ready. Even so they agreed to swap my screen several times, so in fact I think they knew they had an issue but just didn't want to admit it - otherwise why would they have swapped (and paid for the expensive air shipping to Finland) the screen several times? With that said in the end I'm satisfied with Da-Lite customer support as they allowed me to 'upgrade' to the JKP material for a fair price.

I completely agree with you, I would've been ready to pay all the increased expenses and more for the 2.8 material. E-mailing back and forth with my dealer and Da-Lite, carrying, unpackaging, mounting and sending back big screens isn't my favorite way to spend my time off. If Da-Lite ever gets the 2.8 material back, I'm pretty sure I'd buy one for 3D and ambient viewing use.

Coder, how long does it take before crosstalk and ghosting are affected by the lamp? Halfway through its life or more towards the end?

You're absolutely right about gaming on a non DLP. I haven't found a display yet that handles gaming without issues other then a DLP. But my 3D watching is primarily blu-rays and to be honest, I haven't found a game yet that really takes advantage of 3D enough to make me want to play in 3D. The most impressive 3D game I've played is Super Stardust HD on ps3. Looks great. Even on a non DLP display :-) Most first person shooters look terrible on a non DLP 3D display.

Something has struck my curiosity about the Epson projectors when it comes to 3D. Some people talked about having a lot of issues with crosstalk and ghosting. I've owned two 5020's and now a 5030 and have barely noticed it. And that's also with me keeping the glasses on high brightness setting. Is it possible that these projectors can show different levels of crosstalk per unit? I didn't know if maybe some people who complained about excessive crosstalk had a defective unit. Can one 5020 or 5030 show more crosstalk than another because of bad optics or something along those lines? Just curious

I think the same unit can show different amounts of cross-talk at different times. I watched OZ on my 6020 and the ghosting was miserable. I went back to the same scenes the next day and saw NONE! I have 6 pairs of glasses for this projector and so the only difference may have been my choice of glasses. Ghosting remains a mystery to me. The only thing about ghosting I do know is that DLPs aren't susceptible to it, but I am -- if there's ghosting I'll see it.

I think the same unit can show different amounts of cross-talk at different times. I watched OZ on my 6020 and the ghosting was miserable. I went back to the same scenes the next day and saw NONE! I have 6 pairs of glasses for this projector and so the only difference may have been my choice of glasses. Ghosting remains a mystery to me. The only thing about ghosting I do know is that DLPs aren't susceptible to it, but I am -- if there's ghosting I'll see it.

That is really interesting. Are all 6 pairs of your glasses the same brand and model? How is the 3d in Oz by the way? I watched and enjoyed the 2d version and am curious to see the 3d.

That is really interesting. Are all 6 pairs of your glasses the same brand and model? How is the 3d in Oz by the way? I watched and enjoyed the 2d version and am curious to see the 3d.

I have 2 pairs of Epson glasses and 4 pairs of Samsung glasses. The only explanation I can think of is that when I watched the movie the first time the battery in the glasses was nearly dead and then when I checked those "ghosting" scenes again I used a pair with a better battery.

The 3D for this movie was pretty good -- I think is was converted. I'm finding that the conversions now are really quite respectable. Pacific Rim for example is amazing. Maybe we'll soon get to a point where few will be able to tell whether or not a movie was converted or filmed in native 3D.

I have 2 pairs of Epson glasses and 4 pairs of Samsung glasses. The only explanation I can think of is that when I watched the movie the first time the battery in the glasses was nearly dead and then when I checked those "ghosting" scenes again I used a pair with a better battery.

The 3D for this movie was pretty good -- I think is was converted. I'm finding that the conversions now are really quite respectable. Pacific Rim for example is amazing. Maybe we'll soon get to a point where few will be able to tell whether or not a movie was converted or filmed in native 3D.

Pacific Rim was fantastic for 3d! One of the best I have seen in a while. Thanks for the Oz info and I will track it down at some point soon.

I have 2 pairs of Epson glasses and 4 pairs of Samsung glasses. The only explanation I can think of is that when I watched the movie the first time the battery in the glasses was nearly dead and then when I checked those "ghosting" scenes again I used a pair with a better battery.

The 3D for this movie was pretty good -- I think is was converted. I'm finding that the conversions now are really quite respectable. Pacific Rim for example is amazing. Maybe we'll soon get to a point where few will be able to tell whether or not a movie was converted or filmed in native 3D.

Pacific Rim was fantastic for 3d! One of the best I have seen in a while. Thanks for the Oz info and I will track it down at some point soon.

Boo! I read it wasn't that impressive in 3D so I got to regular Bluray. Regardless, I just couldn't get into that movie. It looks fantastic --- and for that reason I'm happy to have it --- but I was expecting a "smart" transformers movie and I certainly didn't get that. Looked amazing on my HW30.

3D was great in this movie, much better in my home setup that the local 'mini imax' I saw it at. The circular polarizing glasses were awful, the slightest movement could introduce crosstalk. Colors overall were dull, etc.

I heard the new Godzilla movie in 2014 is also going to be in 3D... can't wait.

Boo! I read it wasn't that impressive in 3D so I got to regular Bluray. Regardless, I just couldn't get into that movie. It looks fantastic --- and for that reason I'm happy to have it --- but I was expecting a "smart" transformers movie and I certainly didn't get that. Looked amazing on my HW30.

Did you read that for the blu ray? I have read nothing but praise for the 3d on the blu ray and I felt the same way. After watching both the 2d and 3d versions this week, all my future viewings will be 3d for sure. The 2d looked great don't get me wrong, but the 3d in this film really adds to the experience and takes it all to the next level IMO.

That picture is fantastic Zombie! The new Godzilla movie looks to have great potential from the trailer I saw.

Here's an interesting comparison, the new 5030 with the Sharp 30K in 3D.

I was expecting the 5030 to be brighter since it definitely out-muscles it in raw 3D lumens, but the glasses kick in and due to different shutter timing, the perceived brightness is surprisingly close in a direct A/B with a split 3D source.

Crosstalk performance with these low hours is impressive. you have to really go out of the way to find a bit of x-talk. You can see it in sub-titles but overall it's very good for a non-DLP.

The 30k is sharper on my 142". You have to start tweaking the SR and sharpness settings to match the natural sharpness of the 30K

The 5030 is making a very good first impression this year. The 30K was a steal for 1799 for 3D that looks this good. It has the best glasses i've used yet (Sharp G20). Epson's RF are close second, they are comfortable and fit over my prescription glasses. The sync of course is perfect each time. they did a great job with these glasses.

Zombie, sorry if I've missed it, but how does the Sharp compare in 2D brightness to some of the other projectors, and how about black levels? I really wanted a JVC, but I'm starting to think the Sharp might work as well or better for me.

Setup is a smallish room, about 11.5' x 13.5'. But I may be able to make a projector booth to get a bit more distance if I need it, because right behind the room is a little "room" under the stairs. Room will be 100% blacked out with velvet and felt.

Screen size is likely to be 106" wide 2.35.

I would love a jVC RS46 but the price is out of my range ($2000 limit) and I have not seen any B-stocks/refurbs yet. 5030 or 5020 has been considered but I think having even worse gaming lag than the JVC probably eliminates it.

2D movies are my top priority without a doubt. But I do do a lot of gaming. I have played a few hours of Borderlands 2 in 4-player online co-op on a JVC RS35 before I had ever heard about its bad latency, and I have to say I didn't notice anything "off" about it.

I absolutely love the picture on the JVCs I've seen. Also would greatly like motorized zoom/focus/lens shift for CIH (by the way, I also use CIH for PC gaming, as lots of games now support 2.35 aspect ratios). But I can live with manual -- for 2 years now I've been using the Mits HC4000 and actually having to move the projector itself between two shelves, along with adjusting focus and zoom, every time I switch between 2.35 and 16:9. Merely having to turn some knobs would not be a dealbreaker.

Would like to enjoy some 3D but priority-wise it's WAY below 2D and gaming. I can live without it entirely.

Sharp is only in contention if I can find another deal on it. With prices as they are on most of these PJs, most likely I will either end up waiting another year or so, or conceivably getting an RS45 if more B-stocks show up. My only real concern there is the lamp issues they were reported to have, which is why I'd prefer a 46. I would absolutely love e-shift since we sit pretty close (current screen in 2.35 at 124" x 54" or so and we sit at around 9'), but those models aren't going to be in my price range.

Setup is a smallish room, about 11.5' x 13.5'. But I may be able to make a projector booth to get a bit more distance if I need it, because right behind the room is a little "room" under the stairs. Room will be 100% blacked out with velvet and felt.

Screen size is likely to be 106" wide 2.35.

I would love a jVC RS46 but the price is out of my range ($2000 limit) and I have not seen any B-stocks/refurbs yet. 5030 or 5020 has been considered but I think having even worse gaming lag than the JVC probably eliminates it.

Sharp is only in contention if I can find another deal on it. With prices as they are on most of these PJs, most likely I will either end up waiting another year or so, or conceivably getting an RS45 if more B-stocks show up. My only real concern there is the lamp issues they were reported to have, which is why I'd prefer a 46.

I think the Sharp is pretty hopeless under 2k unfortunately unless you went used, which isn't a bad thing to do if you do a warranty, but then used + warranty probably well over $2000. They are hard to find used.

AVS will probably get B-stock Rs-46's eventually, but since no RS-47 was released this year, JVC might not release very many B-Stock RS-46's because I think it's still considered the current model. Email Mike@Avscience.com and he can probably give you a general idea as to when B-stocks might show up again.

The Epsons have slightly better lag than the JVC, and keep in mind that different people will get slightly different results from lag testing due to averaging. 2D gaming should be fine on either projector unless you are hardcore, though you will probably take a small hit to your FPS kill count vs. a sub 40ms lag projector (but only if you are one of those "good" FPS players). I'm too bad at those games at my age that it makes no difference to me, though I do still think DLP feels a bit smoother even in non-FPS games.

Setup is a smallish room, about 11.5' x 13.5'. But I may be able to make a projector booth to get a bit more distance if I need it, because right behind the room is a little "room" under the stairs. Room will be 100% blacked out with velvet and felt.

Screen size is likely to be 106" wide 2.35.

I would love a jVC RS46 but the price is out of my range ($2000 limit) and I have not seen any B-stocks/refurbs yet. 5030 or 5020 has been considered but I think having even worse gaming lag than the JVC probably eliminates it.

2D movies are my top priority without a doubt. But I do do a lot of gaming. I have played a few hours of Borderlands 2 in 4-player online co-op on a JVC RS35 before I had ever heard about its bad latency, and I have to say I didn't notice anything "off" about it.

I absolutely love the picture on the JVCs I've seen. Also would greatly like motorized zoom/focus/lens shift for CIH (by the way, I also use CIH for PC gaming, as lots of games now support 2.35 aspect ratios). But I can live with manual -- for 2 years now I've been using the Mits HC4000 and actually having to move the projector itself between two shelves, along with adjusting focus and zoom, every time I switch between 2.35 and 16:9. Merely having to turn some knobs would not be a dealbreaker.

Would like to enjoy some 3D but priority-wise it's WAY below 2D and gaming. I can live without it entirely.

Sharp is only in contention if I can find another deal on it. With prices as they are on most of these PJs, most likely I will either end up waiting another year or so, or conceivably getting an RS45 if more B-stocks show up. My only real concern there is the lamp issues they were reported to have, which is why I'd prefer a 46. I would absolutely love e-shift since we sit pretty close (current screen in 2.35 at 124" x 54" or so and we sit at around 9'), but those models aren't going to be in my price range.

Avoid the Epson not for the lag, but for the SDE when sitting close to the screen. And the manual lens shift is very finicky for changing ARs (at least on my 5010).

It sounds like everything is pointing towards a JVC in your future, considering you didn't mind the lag on the RS35. All the JVC models should be similar. If you can hold out for a b-stock RS46 you can get a little better 3d. But it is possible to enjoy 3d on the RS45 if it's not your priority and you approach it with a relaxed, non-critical attitude. And lamp issues have gone way down with the newer 003 "flapper" version.

Also, I really like your idea of mounting the projector out of the room for a longer throw and potentially wider CIH screen. Especially if this is a setup you plan on using long term. Might as well get what you want and make as few compromises as possible.

Zombie - do you think the 5030's 3d is not bright enough for a 138" (diagonal) acoustically transparent 1.2 gain screen? I love having a decently sized AT screen, but I keep waiting year after year for a good and bright 3d projector to go with it, dang it!

Zombie - do you think the 5030's 3d is not bright enough for a 138" (diagonal) acoustically transparent 1.2 gain screen? I love having a decently sized AT screen, but I keep waiting year after year for a good and bright 3d projector to go with it, dang it!

The 3D brightness hasn't really changed since last year's model. ~1100 3D lumens may not cut it on such a large screen with low gain. A 3D DLP stack might be order, BenQ is releasing the W7500 soon which could be an option.

That's what I was afraid of. I've just been running a cheap Viewsonic 8200 while I wait for something that can handle the task. Before it, I had an Acer h5360 and an Epson 1080 ub on a 106" 2.8 high powered screen. I actually still have the screen and the Acer. I've thought about trying to just set up a secondary 3d only area with that screen, but I really would prefer just the main AT screen because of it's size and much better sound equipment that goes with it. I've been wanting to upgrade to a better projector, but none of them can do meet the all the requirements that I need. Of course again, with the main universal problem of all of them not being bright enough for 3d use on that screen.

I was really hoping that the Epson could possibly squeeze enough lumens because I'm really curious of how the FI is in 3d. I normally despise it in 2d, but if it kinda has a HFR effect like in The Hobbit, then I think I would enjoy it. I have to figure something out soon, because I love a good 3d experience.

This thread is over a year old and still active. It has over 400,000 views and nearly 5,000 posts in 167 pages. In light of that perhaps we should reconsider the definition of a "mini" shootout next time, eh?

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to Zombie10k and all those who have contributed over the past year. There's tons of valuable information here that I know has helped many people make buying/upgrade decisions. This is what a thriving community forum is supposed to look like!

A little off topic, but Zombie or anyone else, do you guys know if Art of Flight 3d was ever released region free? I watched parts of this the past few days on Netflix 3d streaming which looked great actually, but I am sure it is not as good as the actual blu, especially once you factor in the audio. Is there a region free 3d copy of this available anywhere yet?

I just watched the 3D on Netflix streaming for a few minutes just for the heck of it, it was ok but not sure about "great"?

The only thing that bothered me more than the PQ was the dollhouse/toy effect that it caused, I guess that is enhanced from 2D to 3D conversions.

Yeah, the streaming is definitely not up to par with an actual blu ray at least in my setup. The motion in my setup has very slight little jumps at random times due to the streaming process (I am getting ~19mbps dl which should be plenty I would think?), the general PQ while takes a hit being 720p and of course the lossy audio is not quite up to par with lossless. Would love to get a region free copy of the actual blu ray, but I don't know if I want it enough to mod my Oppo since it is literally the only other mod title I want.

As far as the actual 3d, some parts looked fantastic and at other times it looked a bit unnatural or something. I would love to see the actual blu ray though to know I was getting the presentation as good as possible which I don't feel confident I am streaming.

A little off topic, but Zombie or anyone else, do you guys know if Art of Flight 3d was ever released region free? I watched parts of this the past few days on Netflix 3d streaming which looked great actually, but I am sure it is not as good as the actual blu, especially once you factor in the audio. Is there a region free 3d copy of this available anywhere yet?

I don't think so, but this is one heck of a conversion they did. Full 3D stream or go home... what's this netflix business??

This means it's time to go digital storage... The Mede8ter is calling your name.

I don't think so, but this is one heck of a conversion they did. Full 3D stream or go home... what's this netflix business??

This means it's time to go digital storage... The Mede8ter is calling your name.

You are right! I need to get my a$$ in gear and go for the digital storage. I am in one of those just want to enjoy the HT periods right now, but eventually I will get motivated to make that upgrade which would be awesome.

Yeah, the Netflix streaming is not perfect since it is only 720p, but it looks better than I thought it would and if nothing else is a fun way to sample some things to maybe put on the blu 3d buy list. Selection is not bad, but not great either. I think there are just under 60 titles total, but hell right now ~1/3 wont even play through some of the compatible players (which are limited) including the PS3 which is all I have that will work. Just glad the first month was free since I doubt I will keep it longer than that unless they can get the bugs ironed out.