The nirmaṇakāya in Mahāyāna thought is essentially conceived of as a seemingly physical and tangible manifestation of an otherwise transcendental Buddha. In other words, it is a means through which that transcendental force interacts with ordinary beings in a way they can comprehend. It isn't real or substantial, hence no need for food.

"Huiyuan asks, 'The Buddha as the dharmakāya teaches sūtras to the bodhisattvas. The bodhisattvas are able to see the dharmakāya. If it is like this, then it would have the four elements and five faculties. If so, what difference is there with a form body, and why call it a dharmakāya? The sūtras state that the dharmakāya is without going and without coming. It has no arising and no cessation, always like nirvāṇa. How are they able to see it and furthermore [how is it] able to teach?'"

Kumārajīva replies to this by introducing the idea of an illusory body.

"Like the image in a mirror or a moon in the water, it appears to have form, but there is no tactile [quality] to it, therefore it is not form. The illusion is also like this. The dharmakāya is also so. Again, the sūtras speak of a dharmakāya, others explain an illusionary body of the Buddha, while others explain it as a dharmakāya of excellent practices."

"Like the image in a mirror or a moon in the water, it appears to have form, but there is no tactile [quality] to it, therefore it is not form. The illusion is also like this. The dharmakāya is also so. Again, the sūtras speak of a dharmakāya, others explain an illusionary body of the Buddha, while others explain it as a dharmakāya of excellent practices."

That's interesting, I've always heard the analogy of the image in a mirror or moon in the water as describing the Sambhogakaya.

"Like the image in a mirror or a moon in the water, it appears to have form, but there is no tactile [quality] to it, therefore it is not form. The illusion is also like this. The dharmakāya is also so. Again, the sūtras speak of a dharmakāya, others explain an illusionary body of the Buddha, while others explain it as a dharmakāya of excellent practices."

That's interesting, I've always heard the analogy of the image in a mirror or moon in the water as describing the Sambhogakaya.

Good point. How exactly is the dharmakāya, in this understanding, distinguished from sambhogakāya? I would imagine perhaps it is because the dharmakāya appears solid to sentient beings, whereas the other does not.

Last edited by Greg on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Greg wrote:Good point. How exactly is the dharmakāya, in this understanding, distinguished from sambhogakāya? I would imagine perhaps it is because the dharmakāya appears solids to sentient beings, whereas the other does not.

The dharmakāya is only really perceived by tenth state bodhisattvas. The nirmaṇakāyas are readily perceived by beings wherever they emerge (they are "response bodies" as it were). A saṃbhogakāya is generally only perceived by bodhisattvas.

"The true dharmakāya pervades the empty dharma-realm of the ten directions, its light completely illuminating immeasurable lands. The sound of the dharma being taught always encompassing innumerable realms of the ten directions. The masses of bodhisattvas fully abiding on the tenth stage are able to hear [that] dharma. From the Buddha's body there provisionally (upaya) manifest illusions, there always being immeasurable and unlimited illusory buddhas pervading the ten directions, manifesting forms appropriate to the differences in dispositions of sentient beings, differing in brilliance, physical appearance, fineness and coarseness. The true body of the Tathāgata is not even capable of being seen by ninth stage bodhisattvas. How much more so those who have achieved non-retrogression (avaivartika) and other sentient beings? The reason for this is that the Buddha's dharmakāya is beyond the three realms, not relying upon karma of the body, speech or mind, having been perfected by immeasurable and untainted pure merit and past deeds."

deepbluehum wrote:There are so many yogis who can go without food or water or breathing.

I remember this story about some ancient sage and a bowl of milk-rice.. Is a buddha some kind of biological thing that requires nourishment?

The real Buddha is Dharmakaya. The rūpakaya is only part of disciples' illusion matrix. So, no, Buddha is not a biological thing. This is Mahayana's way. ChNNR explains Rūpakaya is Dharmakaya's qualifications from secondary causes. Both Dzogchen and Mahayana are saying same thing. Biological things are scientists ideas.

deepbluehum wrote:The real Buddha is Dharmakaya. The rūpakaya is only part of disciples' illusion matrix. So, no, Buddha is not a biological thing. This is Mahayana's way. ChNNR explains Rūpakaya is Dharmakaya's qualifications from secondary causes. Both Dzogchen and Mahayana are saying same thing. Biological things are scientists ideas.

So that statement about buddha's not eating wasn't referring to every day food, I understand now, thank you

Disclaimer: If I have posted about something, then I obviously have no idea what I am talking about!

deepbluehum wrote:The real Buddha is Dharmakaya. The rūpakaya is only part of disciples' illusion matrix. So, no, Buddha is not a biological thing. This is Mahayana's way. ChNNR explains Rūpakaya is Dharmakaya's qualifications from secondary causes. Both Dzogchen and Mahayana are saying same thing. Biological things are scientists ideas.

So that statement about buddha's not eating wasn't referring to every day food, I understand now, thank you

Doesn't need to eat everyday food, but does so to set an example about the vinaya.

Yes and I think Mahayana would hold the same about when Lord Buddha fasted before his enlightenment and became very emaciated.

In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,I must obtain control over my own mind. Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.-Atisha Dipamkarabrtsal ba'i bkhra drin