“You bitch how dare you wake up in the morning as a girl”: more jealousy and anger towards women

In a previous post we saw how common it is to feel jealousy, resentment, even anger, towards women, among men who either wish to transition or are actively transitioning. There are so many examples of this that it merits a follow-up post.

The poster goes into more detail in the comments: “it started as a fetish and progressed into wanting to live full time as a woman”.

There is more, a lot more examples all over this community. The mixing together of jealousy, resentment, anger, and sexual attraction, often with a dose of thinking that being a woman is easier than being a man. Many of these people are not in a healthy emotional place, and their views of what it is like being a woman are seriously misguided.

24 thoughts on ““You bitch how dare you wake up in the morning as a girl”: more jealousy and anger towards women”

Maybe I can clarify for you the emotions of these people. You are right that they are slightly unstable- that is because most of them probably have pretty shitty lives, and it’s in situations like this where you have to have a balanced understanding of what they’re saying, the context, etc. Though the people saying slightly violent things or saying things about hating women or wanting to hurt them are clearly wrong, most of the quotes you mined are entirely out of context for the purpose of demonizing them and if somebody read the whole post BEFORE that one sentence they would likely feel sympathy. For instance, that quote about how “you bitch how dare you wake up as a girl.” Clearly, from the other things this commenter says, they don’t actually think that. They actively explain how they spend time around girls, find them attractive, and if they’re that jealous, probably appreciate their personalities as well. Your quote was taken from a part of the post where they are describing evil thoughts which they clearly want to be rid of. Have you ever… I don’t know… wanted to have sex with a friend’s boyfriend or girlfriend? Or perhaps felt jealous of a coworker for doing better at their work than you? What if every thing you said that could be made to sound bad was compiled into one post where somebody claims to expose your “demons”- clearly for the purpose of taking away your rights? Yeah.
Now, about your stupid misunderstandings about their actual feelings. For the person who said that it “started as a fetish,” I’d like to explain with a bit of a close to home example. For me, one of the signs during and before puberty was that I experienced sexual attraction but not desire. Looking at a woman, I’d say “Man, she’s really attractive. If I had a penis, I’d totally have sex with her.” Ditto for men. “Wow, he’s hot. I know it would probably complicate things, though, but I don’t think I’d have sex with him unless I was a guy.” Get it? That is obviously not the same thing, but that is essentially why trans people feel like that. It’s pretty much like you not enjoying yourself in bed if your partner forces you to grow a mustache and wear a tie and then calls you “he” throughout it all. (Just assuming you’re female, apologies if not)
Not to mention I’d like to point out that a lot of the quotes you mined were from trans guys, people who have either transitioned to be guys or want to, like me. Yet, throughout the entire post, you fail to acknowledge our existence. I’ll just assume from there that you’re with the “ew penis get away from me” crowd in that respect, the kind of person more concerned with “Wah wah stop oppressing me by forcing me into a box and comply with your goddamn gender norms already” than people discreetly leaving. Oh, wait, silly me. Ftm, mft, both of those have an M in it- they’re both the devil! How silly of me to think otherwise. This is totally worth creating an entire blog dedicated to quote mining and poisoning the well to assert your dominance over an already oppressed group of people who you logically should be on the side of. Congratulations, nice way to spend your time, hon.

Looking at a woman, I’d say “Man, she’s really attractive. If I had a penis, I’d totally have sex with her.”

So you don’t think lesbian sex is actual sex and wish you had a dick because that’s the only way real people could probably have sex. K, next.

Ditto for men. “Wow, he’s hot. I know it would probably complicate things, though, but I don’t think I’d have sex with him unless I was a guy.” Get it?

Oh, okay, so the concept of having a vagina is a source of shame for you for having sex because you understand that there are delicate power structures at work between men and women — specifically males and females — and the idea of having sex with a man while you are a woman hurts you. Not to mention, magically “thinking” that you have a penis isn’t going to do shit. A strap on is not a penis — hence why plenty of lesbians utilize them. An engorged & overgrown clitoris is not a penis. And those sad sacks of flesh they create from a phalloplasty are not a penis either.

Why not become more accepting of the fact that you are female? Why not acknowledge that living in the world as a female person is difficult and work together to make it better for all of us?

It’s pretty much like you not enjoying yourself in bed if your partner forces you to grow a mustache and wear a tie and then calls you “he” throughout it all.

So…females/women do not wear ties or grow facial hair now? WTF? Y’all’s obsession with gender roles to the point of grooming and clothing choices is sexist as fuck.

Not to mention I’d like to point out that a lot of the quotes you mined were from trans guys, people who have either transitioned to be guys or want to, like me.

A lot of FTMs do have a seething hatred for women because of the aforementioned reasons. Your sense of internalized misogyny, of finding women to be lesser, weaker, quieter, prettier, is part of the reason you strive to identify as something *other* because why would anyone want to be the elegant doormat that is a woman? The first FTM I ever met was a straight up MRA, who read “The Myth of Male Power” and got off on violent rape fantasies of women. Naturally she was not an FTM lesbian, just someone who fetishized gay men to the point where she only wanted to be with men as a man, and it still chaps her hide that actual gay men do not want to sleep with her.

I’ll just assume from there that you’re with the “ew penis get away from me” crowd in that respect, the kind of person more concerned with “Wah wah stop oppressing me by forcing me into a box and comply with your goddamn gender norms already” than people discreetly leaving.

Ahh, assuming. The best way to remain an ignorant asshole without learning a damn thing. If you knew anything about gender critical & radical feminism, or *even* liberal feminism at this point, you’d know that plenty of women fear men — and yeah, their penises that you seem to covet — because of this worldwide thing going on called male violence. Maybe you’ve heard of it? Probably not since you live under a rock with your trans bros. And on top of that, “Wah wah stop oppressing me by forcing me into a box” is literally what trans people do. You’ve literally stated it up there. Women don’t wear ties (or anything like ‘suits’ or loafers or god forbid they wear pants!), don’t have facial hair, they look pretty, they get fucked by dicks. Your “idea” of a woman, that box for “woman” that you allow males into and have rejected for your own box, is a sexist idea of what it is to be a woman.

Open your eyes, girlie. If your icon is you, you don’t look like a man. Maybe after you permanently alter your body with testosterone until you atrophy your own uterus and have to have drastic surgery to remove it, and you’ve prematurely aged, maybe then you will be mistaken for a man. Because god knows if you aren’t pretty and demure, you couldn’t possibly be a woman.. 🙂

Firstly, I’d like to say a nice warm fuck you for all of the “she”s in there. I’m assuming you do that to other trans people, too? Deliberately misgender them so as to break them down and make them feel bad? Nice. Good strategy.
Alright, let’s address your first point. Firstly, I… You actually don’t understand the point of that entire section at all. It’s kind of ridiculous. As for the lesbian thing, no, of course lesbian sex is sex. It’s just not sex that I want to take part in. Just because you have a vagina doesn’t mean you think gay men can’t have sex, that would be idiotic. The point isn’t about the person I’m with or anything along those lines, it’s about me not being comfortable with my body. In case you’ve never done any research into the condition, I suggest that you research the DSM definition of gender dysphoria- and not just that. You can’t do what you clearly are doing and dismiss it as illogical. Read papers about possible causes. Read papers by experts on the difference between the mind of a cis male and a trans female, for instance. You might find evidence for or against your position, but the point is having facts before you assert idiotic things about another person’s gender dysphoria.
Also, that entire point about heterosexual sex… What? Where did you get that? I don’t give a shit about power balances. In fact, one of my other specifications relating to sex is that I don’t want to be all fucking dominant, with a man or a woman. It doesn’t fit my personality, it doesn’t fit the personalities of the people I am attracted to, and it doesn’t fit my personal taste.
Secondly, about that whole mustache thing, maybe I wasn’t very clear about what I meant, sorry. My point was that if your partner forced you to act, look, and dress like a stereotypical male, you would be forced into a specific gender role, and that people shouldn’t have to be forced to do things like that in order to please their partner. Effectively, what I’m saying is that these people don’t like the gender role they’re forced into, and that it makes sense to only be comfortable in the gender-related stereotypes that, well… That you’re comfortable in.
Also, about that whole rant about trans guys… Can I just say that I’m a feminist? Always have been, always will be. I goddamn hate the fact that men have some privelleges above women, and I approve of any and all measures that would fix this. I oppose gender roles, I support my female friends, and I try my hardest every day to monitor my behaviour because I’m constantly scared that anything I do could be offensive and I don’t want to hurt anybody, much less discriminate. Some trans guys are total assholes, as are some trans women, some cis men, and some cis women. Some humans are just assholes. Just because some of us are doesn’t mean all of us are, and I suggest you try to see the details in a person before you dismiss them as inherently evil because of some insignificant part of their identity.
As for that last part, yeah, you’re right, that was ad hominem and I was being a total asshole. Sorry. Although I think you interpreted my comment about gender roles wrong- what I meant was that many people complain about gender roles while hypocritically forcing others to comply with their perceived gender’s gender roles and “embrace” it. I don’t know enough about you to assume whether you fit this description, although if you did it would be some serious cognitive dissonance, considering your entire argument is based on the opposite.
And about your comment about male violence. You yourself said that I do not appear male. Do you think I’ve never experienced that fear? The realization that I’m weak as fuck (not on account of my female physiology, on account of me myself being weak as fuck) and that any person off the street could do whatever they wanted to me and I’d have no defence but screaming? Nobody DFAB doesn’t have that experience, excepting of course those who have adequate fighting skills to get out of a conflict if one occurred. I’m not an idiot just because I’m trans.
Finally, about your assertion about surgery. Well, here is where you demonstrate that your entire basis for this hatred of yours is founded on stereotypes. Firstly, I will inform you that recently new research has confirmed that they can, in fact, create a working penis with a person’s DNA and graft it onto their body (or, whether they’ve done it with a human yet or not, they can hypothetically and probably will be able to in the future). Not that that has much bearing on your argument. Instead, you seem to see surgery as “mangling” your body and describe it in ugly, occasionally untrue words- again, poisoning the well. You just love poisoning the well, don’t you? Well, I actually don’t want surgery. None. I am a total wuss and couldn’t handle it, and besides, I don’t see anything wrong with me how I am. I’ve got breasts- wonderful, they’re very squishy. I’ve got a vagina- well, I don’t like it much, but I get along just fine as is, I’d rather a working vagina than a useless fake penis, and if I’m with the right person I can imagine that I would be able to be comfortable with it in bed too. Hormones are sort of different- I can imagine taking hormones, but the reason for that is because they work. Firstly, improvements on T are often pretty great, and I’ve heard high success rates. Secondly, most trans people who go on hormones say that it really helped their self esteem, appearance, etc. I probably never will, though, as it seems ineffectual enoug for me to be rather skeptical about it. At’s where you seem to not understand much. Not all trans people want surgery. A lot of us are rather okay with how our bodies are as they are, and ever if they do try to change it, why judge them for that? What, do you judge people who get tattoos for being sexist against people who don’t have butterflies on their shoulder?
And to conclude, I’m considering reprising that “fuck you” ten times over for that comment about passing as male. I’m entirely aware I don’t pass, if I passed it would be as a goddamn eleven year old for shit’s sake. But I’m fine with that. The reason that I am fine with that, as well as all of your other (mostly false) assertions, is that this works. I’m happy, my dysphoria-related anxiety is functionally gone, I love my appearance and trying to look handsome, and most of all since I’ve come out I’ve been fixing my goddamn life and learning to be a kinder and more accepting person from my fellow LGBT people and all of the allies who support me through all of this. You can honestly say whatever hurtful things you want towards other trans people, and I can try to change your mind, but I hope you know that even if you don’t learn to be accepting and loving towards others and how they feel, the trans community is slowly gaining our rights and the march for progress has never stopped before. May both our self-identified groups have all of the rights and acceptance that they deserve.

“The point isn’t about the person I’m with or anything along those lines, it’s about me not being comfortable with my body.”

“Not all trans people want surgery. A lot of us are rather okay with how our bodies are as they are”

What’s the difference between these two statements? (apart from the fact that they’re opposites) The first statement describes your own experience; the second one is a talking point, trans propaganda.

“Effectively, what I’m saying is that these people don’t like the gender role they’re forced into, and that it makes sense to only be comfortable in the gender-related stereotypes that, well… That you’re comfortable in.”
One thing that strikes me is that absent from this post entirely is any discussion of biological sex—the reality that gender roles are imposed around. Feminists seek to eradicate gender, so most of your comments are misdirected; but that would leave only sex, and sex can’t be changed. (I don’t know what a world without gender would look like; some ex-ftms are thinking about it here: http://redressalert.tumblr.com/)

I’m not sure that the trans community is really gaining rights tbh. Gaining easier access to treatment, sure. But I’m not at all convinced current treatment is a good thing: I see a lot of trans people being pressured into medical treatment regardless of its effects, and I see a small number of privileged rich people getting a lot richer. And I *don’t* see much decrease in violence or harassment towards trans/gnc people.

Well, about those two statements, what I mean is that I am uncomfortable with my body (as are all trans people, to some degree, as that is pretty much the definition of being trans- being uncomfortable in your body as it related to sex.). I’m uncomfortable with my body, but that doesn’t mean I am so uncomfortable that I want to resort to surgery. I don’t see how this is propaganda- it’s just a reality. Some trans people want surgery, some don’t. In fact, I’ve found it much less common to come across ftms who would prefer a functionless penis to just leaving their body as is. The exception is top surgery, as this is much more common in my experience, but surgery to remove the breasts isn’t a rarity. Women with breast cancer often need to resort to this. In ancient tribes, some women would even do primitive surgery to make it easier to swing swords and shoot bows. This isn’t “mangling your body” as the original post said, it’s a relatively safe surgery that some people choose to have done because they are uncomfortable with their body as it is.
As for eradicating gender, would this world also be a world of neutral pronouns and a lack of determining features between what were previously genders? In that case, it’s something that could happen in a hundred years maybe (or if we happen to be very progressive). In this case, I’d probably still prefer to present as male because that’s how I’m comfortable, but I doubt that if I were born in this society I’d have the same emotions because nobody would have any real concept of what male is and what female is apart from physiology. In that case, the only “trans” people in existence would be people who choose to alter their bodies. As long as those people are accepted, I think that is a noble cause.
If by a world without gender you mean the more likely situation, where there is still “male” and “female,” “he and “she,” but there is no association between any clothing types, gender roles, or more importantly unfair inequalities and violence based on gender, etc, I’d say that we mean different things when we say gender, and that is definitely a noble goal. When I say gender, I mean a person’s internal concept of themselves as a man or a woman. So, instead of necessarily wanting to change your body or hating people of the same sex, you just see yourself as the other sex and prefer to be identified as that sex. In other words, rather than taking on gender roles (or leaving them behind), the person just prefers to be identified as their preferred gender (ie. essentially looking how they want and being referred to as what they want. I like male clothing, I like male pronouns, I prefer the male physique for myself, and I otherwise associate myself more with being male than female. That doesn’t mean I or anybody else is sexist- cis people aren’t sexist for being comfortable as female, that isn’t oppressive towards men because they don’t want to personally be a man. It depends on the person.).
As for our rights, I’d argue we are gaining rights. Many governments are either allowing or considering allowing the alteration of gender on birth certificates, drivers licenses, etc. and many places such as schools allow transgender people to use whatever bathroom they feel comfortable in (please note that I am not in agreement with lax laws on this, and in order to prevent possible crime I do think that a diagnosis or at least being vouched for by a medical professional should be necessary before schols, gym memberships, etc. allow a person into a certain facility.). I agree that current “treatment” when it comes to surgery isn’t that good, and in the hypothetical scenario you’re describing, no- people shouldn’t be pressured into partaking in surgeries which they don’t want. I think that before trying something like hormones or surgery one should be properly educated about the reality of the situation before making a decision like that. As for violence, I don’t know the stats, but have you ever heard that quote about change in a single generation? My parents generation was anti-gay, my grandparents generation was vehemently anti gay, and before that gay people couldn’t even really be acknowledged without hatred. Now, tolerance is everywhere. Things change quick when the younger generation is brought up to be accepting.

Enviable woman here. Currently menstruating like crazy, severe cramps, clots coming out. Face and body full of acne. It’s hot today but I didn’t dare to wear a skirt because I hadn’t shaved my legs.
Tell me more how easy and effortless it is to be female. No pain. No trouble looking beautiful. No discrimination. No violent male hatred towards us.

No tiptoeing around — these quotes are from mentally ill males. Mental illness is rampant in our society, but most people’s concept of mental illness is psychosis. Mental illness can also mean a severe disconnect from reality, which, unfortunately, seems to be how many people live their lives. And what is more of a disconnect than wanting to mutilate one’s body?

I understand that people are lonely and depressed; it is an epidemic in our culture. However, the solution is not to go online and yak endlessly about every garbage thought that comes into one’s head. I’m only online because I am disabled and cannot do all the things I would like to be doing: snowshoeing, working with my horse, taking care of dogs no one wants, cooking, fixing up my old farmhouse, etc. If your life is empty and meaningless, there is a world out here — NOT ONLINE! — that is rich and interesting.

And I have no aversion to penises, being in a heterosexual marriage, and, no, I would never have any interest in a woman who wants to become a transman. Why? Because who would want to be with someone who hates her body that much? How could she love my body if she hates her own? I communicated with a young transwoman who hated his body but had a boyfriend. Huh? How can you want him if you hate your own male body? I may be in a straight relationship, but I find women’s bodies beautiful.

We need to be very careful not to confuse mental illness with misogyny. Men who hate women – that’s actually status quo. The fact that they’re willing to write about the topic on a personal level and in such detail might shock people but it’s hatred, plain and simple. There’s no fundamental difference between a misogyny that entails physical harm to women and one that seeks to redefine and colonize us. Gender is a sick system but the men who participate in it aren’t unhealthy; they’re privileged and they’re oppressors.

“Every garbage thought that comes into your head” is fantastic. Hits the nail on the head. That is the thing that a lot of us did, wallowing in thoughts and feelings without trying to understand them or trying to be a functional person, when we were teenagers. And then we stopped wallowing in self-indulgent ‘examinations’ of who/what we were, and grew up. The people quoted in the post have a childish way of thinking about themselves and life. This is very common in our society. It also shows that they are emotionally disturbed. They would probably benefit from psychotherapy but before they would even seek seek that they would have to decide that this degree of selfabsorption combined with emotional dishonesty is not a good thing. That this is unrealistic.

Not just the trans-thing. The whole caring so much about what you imagine other people think about you. The wanting to be physically perfect like something you’ve seen on TV or in magazines. That’s really strong in these quotes. That these are people exactly like 12-year-olds looking at the most glamorized elements of the world and thinking that that is normal and that because they aren’t part of it somehow they are having something bad done to them. It’s quite astonishing.

To benefit from psychotherapy they would have to have already recognized that this is abnormal and not a good way to live. And that what we’re meant to be doing in our lives is building a life (a job, a home) and having friends with shared interests. “Shared interests” with your friends is not something where they come over and listen to you talk about yourself for three hours. If that’s what a person thinks they need to be happy, then they never will be. But even if they did get that kind of treatment from their friends it would just make them even more ‘sucked up inside their brain’ and cut off from the kinds of experiences that make life good. For the people quoted their problem isn’t anything to do with gender. Their problem is that they don’t know how to live. As Dogtowner said, loneliness and depression are common in our world. And here comes trans ready to help self absorbed, confused people have something to fret about, about themselves.

Oh and the person who said they really hate people who are depressed? That person is making that statement on Reddit in order to excuse and seek validation for this disgusting cruel attitude. They’re not sorry about or questioning that aspect of themself at all.

These men are not mentally ill. They are men behaving like men. Drunk on male privilege, furious at women for daring to exist and not cater to their every delusion. The flavour of these comments actually has a lot in common with comments on MRA forums, not only with the “women are evil bitches” stuff, but with the refusal to actually engage with or talk to women at all, whilst projecting all their own shit onto women.

This is mental illness. “not cater to their every delusion”: If you have spent any time with mentally ill people, you will immediately recognize this as a commonality. Projection, too, is not a sign of mental health. My interest is in SOCIAL psychology, and we live in a diseased, dysfunctional culture that most people see as the norm. That does not make it so.

If this is mental illness, then a huge number of men are mentally ill.

There’s not much difference between how these guys regard women and how “normal” men regard women except for the gender identity issue. Most men think women exist to cater to them, and many get exceedingly angry, if not violent, when women have the nerve to be our own people with our own needs and wants.

A sick society creates sick people, but this “sickness” doesn’t necessarily imply a true mental illness. For one thing, “illness” implies something wrong that’s not the fault of the individual and something that can actually be treated or cured.

The narcissism was utterly clear on this one. The needing to win at ALL costs, the idea rules don’t apply for them and its okay to harm others to get your own way, the lack of empathy, the sadism, the inability to separate feelings of anger from lust, its all narcissistic shit. Seen the same crap outta my ex: a clinically diagnosed NPD cross dresser….

Glad to see you mention NPD, Charlotte. I would guess that many of these men have one personality disorder or another. A question is: Why do men with these mental disorders want to wear dresses? And why do they think being sick in their particular way makes them “women”?

One thing that occurs to me is that male misogynists tend to assume that women have a free license to be narcissistic.

Men tend to assume that our preoccupation with our appearance is narcissistic, and not a result of societal grooming or a response to *men’s* demands to have a beautiful woman on their arm, regardless of that woman’s personality or accomplishments. They also project their own faults (talking over people, being entitled, demanding to be the center of attention) onto us and make us out to be drama queens. So, I can see why a narcissistic man would be attracted to “living as” a woman if he thinks womanhood is a free license to be an asshole.

Yes, they see insecurity, call it narcisism, and assume it comes out of NOWHERE. Another of the quoted sources sees the defensiveness and hostility of teenaged girls – to him – assumes it comes out of NOWHERE and that they’re just nasty.

kesher, this is excellent. This is the sense in my opinion in which they’re ‘mentally ill’. They are neurotic and unhappy. They don’t have something that is like a physical illness. People are blameless in physical illnesses. But not in behavior that causes damage to themselves and others. Which when we as a society rightly label ‘abnormal’, it slides into the physical illness model. That’s a problem. Because the phenomenon of people who willfully make themselves both awful and unhappy definitely exists. Maybe ‘mentally abnormal’ would be a better term than mentally ill.

And yeah, I know this is from last April. But this particular post gets right to the heart of the thing.

Can we have some civil discourse here? Someone asked me, what I could possibly educate transwomen about, cis women. She, a natal woman was so rabidly defensive about transwomen’s humanity that she forgot her OWN. Look, I’m not going to disagree with you about your feelings, as a transwomen. It’s not my right. I will say that a lot of transwomen and their allies, forget that despite their feelings of gender dysmorphia; the world has handed them male privilege. What they feel, and what people see are TWO separate things. A white passing person of color, may only identify with the POC part of themselves; however, it doesn’t discount the privileges that whiteness rewards. Same with gender. I resent, the one questioning transwoman in the article, saying that womenhood brings a carefee life… since when, bish? Endometriosis, fibroids, PCOS, miscarriages, rape, unrealistic beauty standards, wage gap, abortion, sufferage, death by childbirth, honor killings, sex trafficking, witch burnings, infanticide…the fuck is my carefree life? BOTH natal women and transwomen have burdens, and your fucking jealousy doesn’t negate all of that.
Miss me with this, bullshit.