3 boys, a handful of careers, lots and lots of pro bono work

Second Class Citizens

(Disclaimer, I am 100% confident that many of you have or know lovely, charming, friendly girls out there. I’m just having a bit of a moment here. Pay no attention to my crisis if it offends you. Move along and don’t read it. That’s fine with me. I will get over it. I also know and love many, many sweet girls and am their biggest fans ever. )

Has anyone else noticed that boys are second class citizens in certain contexts? It’s an oddity of life that I am experiencing right now, and it’s pushing all my buttons on the topic of loss, but that is a story for another time. Today, I am actually worried about the boys I have. I have accumulated over the last 8 and half years of mothering boys, countless pieces of anecdotal evidence to support my very sad claim. I will vent here on just one per boy, because really that is tragic enough for me today, don’t you think? Not too long ago, I was expecting my youngest. I was shopping in a small family owned toy store with LP in the stroller – he was 18 months at the time and singing and looking all around and very clearly a boy. A store employee approached, asking if I needed help. I replied that we were just looking around for a gift. She indicated my pregnant belly and asked “what are you having?” Her tone was sweet, polite and warm. I said “I am having a baby boy.” Her eyes looked downwards. She answered, “oh,” with some disappointment. I was left with the general impression that I had given her the wrong answer. She and her toy store and her planet did not require another boy. I was not offered the standard “congratulations,” which I consider to be the most typical reply and most polite reply to me answering such a personal question for a complete stranger. I felt awkward and unwanted. We went home.

My oldest child, Thinker, has been coming off the bus upset from time to time. There are some girls who are teasing him. They keep it up pretty consistently and he is genuinely upset. I am the first to agree that girls and boys develop differently. I am even willing to agree that girls may develop relationally and emotionally more quickly. Where I fall right off the bandwagon is the speed of their development makes them better, or right. In this case, their teasing seems to be stemming from the fact that they are ready to develop a crush on my very adorable 8 1/2 year old. It is true that Thinker is not ready to reciprocate. It also true that were he older and more ready, this type of teasing would not truly bother him. He might pretend it did, but he’d actually be relishing in the attention and teasing a little back and experimenting with flirting. (Trust me, we’ll get there.) Right now, teasing just seems mean to him. He has no other context for it. He does not make great distinctions between friends that are boys and friends that are girls. In my mind, his concerns are valid. However, A common response to his concern is that he is making something out of nothing – that girls are just more mature than boys and he’ll have to get used to it, adjust, grow up faster. I’ve heard this from acquaintances (not always specifically about my child, but about similar situations) and to a certain extent from his teacher – though she has been careful in her wording. I think she knows I am a stay at home mom and could potentially get “over-involved” if it seemed warranted. What I am wondering is, why isn’t the unkind behavior displayed by these girls on the bus seen and named as unkind instead of a sign of their emotional maturity?

Lastly, the slightly more complicated case of Little Puppy. His case is almost most complicated, because I am never sure if the reception he receives from his peers is due to gender, his complex issues, or really nothing to do with him at all. He knows the names of all his friends, from church, school and all our own friendships. He talks about each of them happily and cheerfully and often greets them with big smiles. For all his difficulty coping with the ups and downs of life, he truly loves people and loves having friends. I’ve recently noticed some ignoring going on. We walked into school last week and LP greeted a little girl – we’ll call her Stacy. “There is Stacy, mom! Hi Stacy! Hi!” No response. Nothing, at all. She glanced his way and huffed. Stacy’s mom said “Hi! Stacy, say hi to LP.” Nothing. This continued from the parking lot into the building, until our paths parted to hang up coats before going to class. Nothing. Stacy ran into the class to greet, apparently, her real friends. I have no idea what was up with her. Her mother was clearly trying to have her be polite, but unable to achieve anything -and who wants to add the drama of a time out on the way into school. I do not blame her, honestly. LP’s emotional life is such that he did not pick up on the fact that she was purposefully not saying hello to him. He was very happy to see her. His own emotions overwhelm him so completely, it takes either a moment of intense calm or a huge emotional reaction to make him aware of anyone else’s feelings besides his own (btw, his usual response to this is relief, like it’s nice to get a break from being stranded with nothing but his own feelings, interesting topic for another post, I think.) So, he was fine, but my feelings were hurt on his behalf – ending with the happy result of me feeling like an idiot because a 4 year old girl just bothered me. LP made his difficult transition into class. A little boy jumped up, “Hi, LP! Hi!” I breathed a quick sigh of relief. He is capable of peer relationships. He is. He is not deficient, either because he is a boy, nor because he has post traumatic stress disorder or sensory processing issues. My child is liked.

My boys are plenty well loved and adored. It’s just hard to go out their in the world and see all this starting so soon. I don’t think it is helping anyone, slotting kids into roles quite so soon. Speed isn’t better. It’s not worse, but not better. Sooner or later, they may notice they are being treated rather shabbily – and as someone who wants her boys to grow up to respect women, I’m struggling, deeply, with this. I don’t blame the girls -somehow they are getting the message that this is okay. I’m not sure why that is, or what that means. If anyone has any kind words or advice, please leave them. If you are bothered by this, fair enough- just know that I’m actually suffering here inside. I’m not looking for trouble, but sometimes, it comes looking for me. Girl mommies, represent! Please, give me your scoop if it will help me and my boys.

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In my experience (with three girls) it goes both ways. I have seen the boys in Einey’s class do an awful lot of teasing, to the point where one new student almost transfered out of the class. As for the four year old girl, I think it’s more an age thing. The same thing happens occasionally to one of the girls when they greet kids in their class. It may happen where they are snubbed one day but not the next. I’ve also seen them snubbed by boys. I have noticed that “clics” form pretty early so sometimes the girls can be a tad catty. I’ve also noticed that they will imitate their friends at a young age even if it’s something they don’t like (or do like but their friends don’t). It’s hard raising kids. I wouldn’t look too much into it yet.

In my experience (with three girls) it goes both ways. I have seen the boys in Einey’s class do an awful lot of teasing, to the point where one new student almost transfered out of the class. As for the four year old girl, I think it’s more an age thing. The same thing happens occasionally to one of the girls when they greet kids in their class. It may happen where they are snubbed one day but not the next. I’ve also seen them snubbed by boys. I have noticed that “clics” form pretty early so sometimes the girls can be a tad catty. I’ve also noticed that they will imitate their friends at a young age even if it’s something they don’t like (or do like but their friends don’t). It’s hard raising kids. I wouldn’t look too much into it yet.

see, I hear ya and teasing is not okay – my confusion is when it is labeled as sophistication of some sort – instead of handling it in a disciplinary/teaching way. Yes, you are right, there is lots of social experimenting happening in the threes and fours set – and it is true that my 3 1/2 year is not peer oriented in that way at this moment, so I am often surprised by it. He is actually my second kid in a row to be sort of side-lined and mystified by the whole thing.But, I’m in no way advocating letting “boys be boys” as in letting teasing or other bad behavior go unattended to. Thank (oh mommy to three girls!!) for your kind and honest reponse. You do me a world of good.

see, I hear ya and teasing is not okay – my confusion is when it is labeled as sophistication of some sort – instead of handling it in a disciplinary/teaching way. Yes, you are right, there is lots of social experimenting happening in the threes and fours set – and it is true that my 3 1/2 year is not peer oriented in that way at this moment, so I am often surprised by it. He is actually my second kid in a row to be sort of side-lined and mystified by the whole thing.But, I’m in no way advocating letting “boys be boys” as in letting teasing or other bad behavior go unattended to. Thank (oh mommy to three girls!!) for your kind and honest reponse. You do me a world of good.

I don’t buy the idea that kids tease other kids because they have crushes on them. I was teased a lot as a kid after we moved to a rural area, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t because they all had secret crushes on me. I agree that it shouldn’t be seen as sophistication. Teasing is mean, period. But empathy takes a very very long time to develop, or at least it did in my case (20+ years?)…

I don’t buy the idea that kids tease other kids because they have crushes on them. I was teased a lot as a kid after we moved to a rural area, and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t because they all had secret crushes on me. I agree that it shouldn’t be seen as sophistication. Teasing is mean, period. But empathy takes a very very long time to develop, or at least it did in my case (20+ years?)…

I just posted about Pie’s mean-girl tendencies. She’s younger even than the children you’ve posted about here. I was going to say that at least she’s an equal-opportunity meanie, but even that isn’t true: she sucks up to the big kids and is defensive and hostile with the babies. It troubles me, but I’m not quite sure what to do about it – she is verbally advanced, but not enough to understand a lecture on kindness. I can easily imagine that what begins as innocent two-year-old meanness morphs very subtly into the exclusionary sophistication of a three-year-old. No wonder some parents don’t catch the exact moment when the meanness becomes deliberate.

I just posted about Pie’s mean-girl tendencies. She’s younger even than the children you’ve posted about here. I was going to say that at least she’s an equal-opportunity meanie, but even that isn’t true: she sucks up to the big kids and is defensive and hostile with the babies. It troubles me, but I’m not quite sure what to do about it – she is verbally advanced, but not enough to understand a lecture on kindness. I can easily imagine that what begins as innocent two-year-old meanness morphs very subtly into the exclusionary sophistication of a three-year-old. No wonder some parents don’t catch the exact moment when the meanness becomes deliberate.

Well, we haven’t entered into the complexity of the school years yet, but as a girl mommy I know I am sensitive to the ways my girls get treated differently then boys already. I don’t know if one side is worse then the other. You have amazing Mama Bear instincts and I know that you are always looking out for your boys. This is really going to benefit them and help them navigate these complicated waters. I think that you are raising your boys to have amazing respect for others (male and female) and the values you instill in them may always make it harder for them to go against the grain or “get” some of the other social games being played out. At the risk of saying too much, I always imagine that Thinker is going to be one of those guys that really comes into his own in late high school early college and blows off all the stupid stuff & stupid people and ends up with some amazing quality friends and an amazing young woman. I fear that he may have some heart break along the way, but I am certain he’s gonna end up blowing everyone away. And, yeah..he’ll probably be breaking lots of hearts too—he’s just so cute!All your boys are so precious. Ofcourse, you know I adore them! I also don’t see how LP can end up not being liked by his peers….I mean certainly the earlier years may actually prove to be bumpier for him, but I think again his charming self & loving heart is going to win out. And LB…well that woman just didn’t know how fabulous a baby was living in your belly. Anyway…just an Auntie cheering & cheering for my sweet fabulous nephews and knowing, like you, that they are valuable and precious! I think being a mom is a rough rough job and I worry about all the complex issues awaiting me as my girls get older. Man, birthing the baby really was just the beginning!

Well, we haven’t entered into the complexity of the school years yet, but as a girl mommy I know I am sensitive to the ways my girls get treated differently then boys already. I don’t know if one side is worse then the other. You have amazing Mama Bear instincts and I know that you are always looking out for your boys. This is really going to benefit them and help them navigate these complicated waters. I think that you are raising your boys to have amazing respect for others (male and female) and the values you instill in them may always make it harder for them to go against the grain or “get” some of the other social games being played out. At the risk of saying too much, I always imagine that Thinker is going to be one of those guys that really comes into his own in late high school early college and blows off all the stupid stuff & stupid people and ends up with some amazing quality friends and an amazing young woman. I fear that he may have some heart break along the way, but I am certain he’s gonna end up blowing everyone away. And, yeah..he’ll probably be breaking lots of hearts too—he’s just so cute!All your boys are so precious. Ofcourse, you know I adore them! I also don’t see how LP can end up not being liked by his peers….I mean certainly the earlier years may actually prove to be bumpier for him, but I think again his charming self & loving heart is going to win out. And LB…well that woman just didn’t know how fabulous a baby was living in your belly. Anyway…just an Auntie cheering & cheering for my sweet fabulous nephews and knowing, like you, that they are valuable and precious! I think being a mom is a rough rough job and I worry about all the complex issues awaiting me as my girls get older. Man, birthing the baby really was just the beginning!

You are all the best sports in the entire universe. I love the internet and all of you. Heather, of course, is quite correct -there isn’t a winner here. After all, my boys are going to be able to wolf down entire pizzas in their teenage years, not gain a pound and then will probably complain about not gaining that pound. Whereas, the teen years I remember were frought with food angst. And yes, and amen to everyone who says it – parenting is very, very hard!

You are all the best sports in the entire universe. I love the internet and all of you. Heather, of course, is quite correct -there isn’t a winner here. After all, my boys are going to be able to wolf down entire pizzas in their teenage years, not gain a pound and then will probably complain about not gaining that pound. Whereas, the teen years I remember were frought with food angst. And yes, and amen to everyone who says it – parenting is very, very hard!

Oh sweetie. I hear you. This kid socialization thing is tough, isn’t it?There is some smoke to the stereotype fire, on both sides, but you are also right that this doesn’t make it all bad or any easier to bear.I’m sorry your guys are dealing with some challenges right now.And it’s tough on you, too.Last first. Some girls are extremely shy, especially to boys, I’ve noticed. My poor Patience. She’s one. Boys have always made her uncomfortable for some reason. If a boy says hi to her or a kid she doesn’t KNOW know—even if it’s someone in her class?—despite my prompts (which I am VERY conflicted about) she might say NOTHING, and then run to her friends all friendly (for some sort of balm, I guess, and comfort). It could be cattiness…but it could be shyness like my Patience. He might not have worried about it because he might have seen her do it and figured it out…and if he’s an outgoing sort, he might just think persisting will eventually break her down (and it might, or it might scare her more if she introverted and shy).But kids at that age are funny…so developing socially and on one minute and off the next…so much factors in.First next. I don’t know it’s so much a sex thing as a SAME sex thing. I got, “better luck next time,” when I shared we were having a second girl.WTF? I was happy. SISTERS! Two of the same is GREAT! Sure it meant no boy, and that was hard, but the pros, oh the pros.I’ve polled and it seems thus:Ideal: Boy, then girlRunner up to ideal: Girl, then boyConsolation prize: two of the sameThat annoys me SO MUCH. I thought we’d never have kids.Last, harder one. Teasing? Not cool. IMO? You need to hop on the school and bus driver about that. It’s such a slippery slope.If it helps, as I am sure you know, we mommies of girls are fighting fires on our side of the fence too.My Persistence? One teacher was APPALLED she wouldn’t say sorry to a boy. When I asked? She had hit him BACK after he HIT HER WITH A TOY. The teacher (mom of boys) felt a retaliatory hit was WORSE because all kids hit especially boys and believed Pers owed the apology. My girl disagreed. I refused to punish her and now I’ve got a situation. UGH!!!!And I’ve got a bag full of these…I think you are so right…we need to break this down on BOTH sides, and work together at it…

Oh sweetie. I hear you. This kid socialization thing is tough, isn’t it?There is some smoke to the stereotype fire, on both sides, but you are also right that this doesn’t make it all bad or any easier to bear.I’m sorry your guys are dealing with some challenges right now.And it’s tough on you, too.Last first. Some girls are extremely shy, especially to boys, I’ve noticed. My poor Patience. She’s one. Boys have always made her uncomfortable for some reason. If a boy says hi to her or a kid she doesn’t KNOW know—even if it’s someone in her class?—despite my prompts (which I am VERY conflicted about) she might say NOTHING, and then run to her friends all friendly (for some sort of balm, I guess, and comfort). It could be cattiness…but it could be shyness like my Patience. He might not have worried about it because he might have seen her do it and figured it out…and if he’s an outgoing sort, he might just think persisting will eventually break her down (and it might, or it might scare her more if she introverted and shy).But kids at that age are funny…so developing socially and on one minute and off the next…so much factors in.First next. I don’t know it’s so much a sex thing as a SAME sex thing. I got, “better luck next time,” when I shared we were having a second girl.WTF? I was happy. SISTERS! Two of the same is GREAT! Sure it meant no boy, and that was hard, but the pros, oh the pros.I’ve polled and it seems thus:Ideal: Boy, then girlRunner up to ideal: Girl, then boyConsolation prize: two of the sameThat annoys me SO MUCH. I thought we’d never have kids.Last, harder one. Teasing? Not cool. IMO? You need to hop on the school and bus driver about that. It’s such a slippery slope.If it helps, as I am sure you know, we mommies of girls are fighting fires on our side of the fence too.My Persistence? One teacher was APPALLED she wouldn’t say sorry to a boy. When I asked? She had hit him BACK after he HIT HER WITH A TOY. The teacher (mom of boys) felt a retaliatory hit was WORSE because all kids hit especially boys and believed Pers owed the apology. My girl disagreed. I refused to punish her and now I’ve got a situation. UGH!!!!And I’ve got a bag full of these…I think you are so right…we need to break this down on BOTH sides, and work together at it…

Julie – yes, the consolation prize attitude is really very, well, condescending. It is sort of horrible having people for bad for you in both your situation (happy! hurray! another baby and another girl! wohoo!) and mine (5 pregnancies – 3 hearty living boys, 2 girl children not with me due to miscarriages = yes, I really am sad I don’t have a girl and thanks for reminding me, really.)

Julie – yes, the consolation prize attitude is really very, well, condescending. It is sort of horrible having people for bad for you in both your situation (happy! hurray! another baby and another girl! wohoo!) and mine (5 pregnancies – 3 hearty living boys, 2 girl children not with me due to miscarriages = yes, I really am sad I don’t have a girl and thanks for reminding me, really.)

I too am very sensitive to the ways boys are slighted in our society. Of course, now that I have a daughter, I will probably become much more attuned to the unique difficulties of girls as well.Kids are funny creatures and there will always be those who resort to meanness whether out of insecurity or poor role modeling or whatever. The important point, as you stated, is that the adults need to intervene and guide and correct whenever and wherever it is necessary. The teacher is wrong to excuse the girl’s teasing behavior in any possible way. There is no excuse. They need to be taught now so that hopefully they will start to exercise more self-control and compassion as they get older. Your son also needs to protected from a scenario where he eventually feels he has no choice but to retaliate. I had to address a situation like that with my younger son where a boy was relentlessly pursuing him at recess. He really just wanted to befriend Little T but he was going about it in completely inappropriate and annoying ways. I finally had to speak to his teacher because I told her that Little T was becoming so frustrated that I feared he was starting to see being mean in return as his only option.Adults have a responsibility to actively guide and train these young people. Unkind behavior, in an older somewhat socially aware child, should never be tolerated. Boy or girl.Oh, and one of my most sensitive “boy moments” came repeatedly after my twins died. It was very clear to me that many people viewed the loss of Molly as more tragic than the loss of Joseph. After all, I already had two sons and no daughters. It was hurtful then, and still is.

I too am very sensitive to the ways boys are slighted in our society. Of course, now that I have a daughter, I will probably become much more attuned to the unique difficulties of girls as well.Kids are funny creatures and there will always be those who resort to meanness whether out of insecurity or poor role modeling or whatever. The important point, as you stated, is that the adults need to intervene and guide and correct whenever and wherever it is necessary. The teacher is wrong to excuse the girl’s teasing behavior in any possible way. There is no excuse. They need to be taught now so that hopefully they will start to exercise more self-control and compassion as they get older. Your son also needs to protected from a scenario where he eventually feels he has no choice but to retaliate. I had to address a situation like that with my younger son where a boy was relentlessly pursuing him at recess. He really just wanted to befriend Little T but he was going about it in completely inappropriate and annoying ways. I finally had to speak to his teacher because I told her that Little T was becoming so frustrated that I feared he was starting to see being mean in return as his only option.Adults have a responsibility to actively guide and train these young people. Unkind behavior, in an older somewhat socially aware child, should never be tolerated. Boy or girl.Oh, and one of my most sensitive “boy moments” came repeatedly after my twins died. It was very clear to me that many people viewed the loss of Molly as more tragic than the loss of Joseph. After all, I already had two sons and no daughters. It was hurtful then, and still is.

Oh, Karen. I feel for you. I have to say, my KittyGirl, soon to turn 5, went through a long couple of months where I couldn’t get her to say hello to her own father when she woke up in the morning! She was all sweet and wonderful to me, but if he went into her room to wake her, or even if I brought her into our room to say hello, she’d “Harumph!” and bury her face in my shoulder. We went through an array of threats and consequences before growing out of that stage. Now, she’s upset when her carpool friend doesn’t want to chat on the long drive to school. The other little girl is still sleepy some days, and wants to suck on her fingers and stare out the window, resting up for the long day at preschool, but KG the ultimate morning person doesn’t understand. We are working on giving other people the room that they need in moments like this. Maybe I ought to remind her how she used to respond to Daddy in the morning… or maybe not. I am sorry that the little girls are behaving this way, but as a girl mama, I am doing my best to teach respectful behavior.

Oh, Karen. I feel for you. I have to say, my KittyGirl, soon to turn 5, went through a long couple of months where I couldn’t get her to say hello to her own father when she woke up in the morning! She was all sweet and wonderful to me, but if he went into her room to wake her, or even if I brought her into our room to say hello, she’d “Harumph!” and bury her face in my shoulder. We went through an array of threats and consequences before growing out of that stage. Now, she’s upset when her carpool friend doesn’t want to chat on the long drive to school. The other little girl is still sleepy some days, and wants to suck on her fingers and stare out the window, resting up for the long day at preschool, but KG the ultimate morning person doesn’t understand. We are working on giving other people the room that they need in moments like this. Maybe I ought to remind her how she used to respond to Daddy in the morning… or maybe not. I am sorry that the little girls are behaving this way, but as a girl mama, I am doing my best to teach respectful behavior.

as a mom of only a girl, i think in some ways you’re right on here, but i also think there are disadvantages to being a girl as well. obviously there is lots of documentation and stuff that girls get called on less in class (although I’ve never seen that first hand) and all the crap we women deal with as we get older… but just for my 5 year old, I see boys who tease and play things like they are shooting and killing each other, and my little girl who lives in such a girl world doesn’t get it. and frankly, I don’t want her to. but there’s a big feeling out there that it’s OK for boys to play such games, and they should, and we should just deal it… even when it hurts MQs feelings because she doesn’t want to pretend she’s dead, or pretend to shoot anyone.ahhh… now I am going off.i was not offended at all by what you said. i hear that you are hurting. your feelings are valid. i just sort of jumped off into my own thing. 😉

as a mom of only a girl, i think in some ways you’re right on here, but i also think there are disadvantages to being a girl as well. obviously there is lots of documentation and stuff that girls get called on less in class (although I’ve never seen that first hand) and all the crap we women deal with as we get older… but just for my 5 year old, I see boys who tease and play things like they are shooting and killing each other, and my little girl who lives in such a girl world doesn’t get it. and frankly, I don’t want her to. but there’s a big feeling out there that it’s OK for boys to play such games, and they should, and we should just deal it… even when it hurts MQs feelings because she doesn’t want to pretend she’s dead, or pretend to shoot anyone.ahhh… now I am going off.i was not offended at all by what you said. i hear that you are hurting. your feelings are valid. i just sort of jumped off into my own thing. 😉