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lloydroid: Based on...............?????????? Are you suggesting Jack Lambert wasn't tough since a turf toe made him retire?

D Rock: Do you always make things up that have no relation to what was said?

lloydroid: Try to follow along if you can. The assertion was made that "a real running back would still play with turf toe." That is an assertion that is straight forward and simple. Hence, if one believes the above, then one would also, likely and logically, think Lambert wasn't a "real LB" since he retired from the same injury. If you apply basic logic, you will "get it."

Here are the facts on the injury. Please feel free to learn. Thank you.
[URL]http://amog.com/sports/152501-turf-toe/[/URL]

And? Where is the ad hominem attack? If anything, my point was made crystal clear. If one is claiming that a "real back" can play through turf toe, then one would be indicting Jack Lambert as not being a "real LB" since turf toe made him not only miss games, but retire. I don't know what you are tripping all over yourself about. My assertion was logical: One cannot make the claim that a "real back" could play through turf toe without indicting Lambert as being "not real."

Also, note at who slighted the other first. Did you fail to notice that part? I believe you have selective reading and comprehension; you see things that are not there and fail to notice things that are.

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Originally Posted by SDSteel1

So in your last post to me you say trainers crack you up, and their methods are useless, then you post a Ziggy Hood training video and say you know a guy who sold him the training equipment, and you have hung out with the world's leading experts in strength training. Do these guys train you at your Jr. High School? Oh, and my point was you don't know what your talking about on any subject, then you seem to go off on a tangent when someone points it out. That's all.

When I was referring to "trainers" I meant the dime-a-dozen guys who litter every commercial gym, who keep reminding you they are "certified" as if that means they know all, when, in fact, your average, veteran weight lifter knows more than these kind of dudes, in a general manner. The guys I was referring to, who provided the equipment to the gym where Ziggy trains, are world-class, leading-edge, renown experts (even though they aren't even "certified.") The stuff you see NFL players doing NOW, they knew about in the 1990s. (chains connected to barbells during benches and squats, resistance bands, etc.) Every NFL strength and conditioning coach knows and pays homage to these folk. Their techniques are leading-edge, state of the art. Your error is in oversimplification. I never asserted that ALL TRAINERS OF EVERY KIND are overrated. I was only referring to those who tout being "certified" and making people perform walking lunges across the gym, as if their knowledge and training is always superior and infallible. I mean, what does it take to be "certified?" A weekend course at your local Holiday Inn? Oh man, was I ever right.

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Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma

I was too young to catch any of the hype around it when it came out, so that might have something to do with my opinion. Everything is over-hyped nowadays. I rarely see/watch/listen to anything that's force fed to me by the media anymore just out of spite.

Actually, I kind of misspoke. It wasn't the hype of when it first came out (as I don't even recall that) but it was kind of the reputation it got in the years after that made me slow to want to watch it; there was a murmur, of sorts, about how how the movie dared to enter taboo areas. I never watched the whole thing; just some of the "Oh how naughty" parts that gave the flick its rep, like wasn't there some BJ scene, some drag queen coverage with John Lithgow and some story about the Glenn Close character having sex and getting pregnant from an unconscious or dead guy? Any how, it just felt like they were trying too hard to be risqu'e. And I am the same as you: When any flick is super promoted, in my face, I won't see it for a long time. It's very rare that something being ballyhooed about is actually worth going to see, but it happens (maybe once a year). "District 9" had some buzz out there and I actually did go see that and enjoyed it very much. Same as "No Country for Old Men."

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Originally Posted by lloydroid

When I was referring to "trainers" I meant the dime-a-dozen guys who litter every commercial gym, who keep reminding you they are "certified" as if that means they know all, when, in fact, your average, veteran weight lifter knows more than these kind of dudes, in a general manner. The guys I was referring to, who provided the equipment to the gym where Ziggy trains, are world-class, leading-edge, renown experts (even though they aren't even "certified.") The stuff you see NFL players doing NOW, they knew about in the 1990s. (chains connected to barbells during benches and squats, resistance bands, etc.) Every NFL strength and conditioning coach knows and pays homage to these folk. Their techniques are leading-edge, state of the art. Your error is in oversimplification. I never asserted that ALL TRAINERS OF EVERY KIND are overrated. I was only referring to those who tout being "certified" and making people perform walking lunges across the gym, as if their knowledge and training is always superior and infallible. I mean, what does it take to be "certified?" A weekend course at your local Holiday Inn? Oh man, was I ever right.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa25XL6uDJ0[/url]

You may be correct about the personal trainers you know, but the youtube clip, although I don't disagree with his info, is just trying to sell his own book. I was certified through the NASM, (National Academy of Sports Medicine), and the training I do with athletes is scientifically proven and it gets measurable results. I researched, and tested programs before becoming certified, and I have over 30 years of training experience myself. I know what has worked for me, and although I have increased speed, done injury prevention, and have lost weight and gained muscle, I still would never claim that my program has cured cancer like Bert in the youtube clip says. You are correct that being "certified" means very little, but then again I didn't become certified to sell my knowledge, I became certified to learn more to help my players and to help myself. The information I learned showed me why I had continually pulled and strained muscles, (especially calf, hamstrings and groin), through the years and it showed me that it was more a function of form rather than something contact or stress related. I was just imparting this info from what I have learned over my last 30+ years of playing and training. Yes I'm old.

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Originally Posted by SDSteel1

You may be correct about the personal trainers you know, but the youtube clip, although I don't disagree with his info, is just trying to sell his own book. I was certified through the NASM, (National Academy of Sports Medicine), and the training I do with athletes is scientifically proven and it gets measurable results. I researched, and tested programs before becoming certified, and I have over 30 years of training experience myself. I know what has worked for me, and although I have increased speed, done injury prevention, and have lost weight and gained muscle, I still would never claim that my program has cured cancer like Bert in the youtube clip says. You are correct that being "certified" means very little, but then again I didn't become certified to sell my knowledge, I became certified to learn more to help my players and to help myself. The information I learned showed me why I had continually pulled and strained muscles, (especially calf, hamstrings and groin), through the years and it showed me that it was more a function of form rather than something contact or stress related. I was just imparting this info from what I have learned over my last 30+ years of playing and training. Yes I'm old.

Well-stated SDS.

I had a problem in my upper back nearly 3 years ago that would have required fusion or discectomy/replacement surgery, but for excellent work with me by a Certified Physical Therapist/Athletic Trainer. His work got me well, and his training guidance has kept me well ... no pain, and no surgery. I am grateful for his professional expertise.

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Originally Posted by SDSteel1

You may be correct about the personal trainers you know, but the youtube clip, although I don't disagree with his info, is just trying to sell his own book. I was certified through the NASM, (National Academy of Sports Medicine), and the training I do with athletes is scientifically proven and it gets measurable results. I researched, and tested programs before becoming certified, and I have over 30 years of training experience myself. I know what has worked for me, and although I have increased speed, done injury prevention, and have lost weight and gained muscle, I still would never claim that my program has cured cancer like Bert in the youtube clip says. You are correct that being "certified" means very little, but then again I didn't become certified to sell my knowledge, I became certified to learn more to help my players and to help myself. The information I learned showed me why I had continually pulled and strained muscles, (especially calf, hamstrings and groin), through the years and it showed me that it was more a function of form rather than something contact or stress related. I was just imparting this info from what I have learned over my last 30+ years of playing and training. Yes I'm old.

Then, in your case, I stand corrected. I don't know that I meant to put you in the category of the kids who get "certified" and don't know that much. I have been training since I was 20 and have never missed more than 1 week since. (I think I might have missed 2 weeks once due to surgery). And, yea, the guy was trying to sell his book in the video, but, as you said, I don't disagree with what he had to say about certain trainers and their "certification." One other trait I have seen is trainers who are on juice or HGH. It's like, yea, you're huge but that doesn't make you an authority on how to train since so much of your mass is due to drugs. Sticking a needle in your butt doesn't mean you know more than others about training. I remember being with a non-working-out employee at an event once, and they had some ripped up "models" (for lack of better word) standing around at this party. And the guy says to me, "Man, just think how much that guy works out" who was obviously on juice. I didn't even bother to explain that I probably had more frequent and better work outs than the guy who was roided out; it had nothing to do with how much he worked out, other than he surely worked out some, but the main cause for his mass was juice.

Any how, I am sure you are a great trainer and not the kind I was referring to.

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Originally Posted by DukieBoy

Well-stated SDS.

I had a problem in my upper back nearly 3 years ago that would have required fusion or discectomy/replacement surgery, but for excellent work with me by a Certified Physical Therapist/Athletic Trainer. His work got me well, and his training guidance has kept me well ... no pain, and no surgery. I am grateful for his professional expertise.

I greatly admire any professionals who help people avoid surgery, including MTs, DCs, specialists, etc.

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Originally Posted by lloydroid

And? Where is the ad hominem attack? If anything, my point was made crystal clear. If one is claiming that a "real back" can play through turf toe, then one would be indicting Jack Lambert as not being a "real LB" since turf toe made him not only miss games, but retire. I don't know what you are tripping all over yourself about. My assertion was logical: One cannot make the claim that a "real back" could play through turf toe without indicting Lambert as being "not real."

Also, note at who slighted the other first. Did you fail to notice that part? I believe you have selective reading and comprehension; you see things that are not there and fail to notice things that are.

You're entire argument is based on something that was never said nor implied - that a real back would play through turf toe. So yes, you do make things up, and yes, you do attack my character and intelligence to attempt to make your point - a point that exists only in your own mind.

Going around in circles with you is useless, you clearly will never see your posting style for what it truly is. Try all you want to pretend you are in a courtroom or something, but there's no judge here, no jury, and you aren't convincing anyone of anything. We don't care if you were the captain of your high school debate team.