719 Responses to PooperScooper Friday 24th May

@Larry, I doubt I am alone in rating Hill as a behemoth in his pomp. Easily 1 of the world’s best at the time, regardless of who was around him. He made mediocre performances by England immeasureably better. Best English flanker in the last 25 years, I reckon.

I think that some of the 90s Bok flanks, outstanding in their way, will always lose out in these discussions as none of them ever got a real long run in the team (5+ seasons or so as undisputed 1st choice bok)

the weird thing was, in the early 00s the ABs had a whole raft of ordinary players. Ireland
Scotland and Wales never managed a win. England did but once IIRC

I don’t know how good your memory is, but the Celtic nations took a fair while to get to grips with professionalism. Some of the crap that won a lot of caps back then wouldn’t get near the squads of today.

As everyone else is obsessed with flankers (wannabe backs quite frankly, notice the other names for their positions, back rowers, wing forwards), it falls to me to say hello to UXB.
Hello UXB, lightning drop-in.

I don’t know how good your memory is, but the Celtic nations took a fair while to get to grips with professionalism. Some of the crap that won a lot of caps back then wouldn’t get near the squads of today.

Oh Dog. England rode the onset of professionalism, won a world cup and now we’re doomed.

@yosoy, pointless argument, mate. The difference between then & now means guys like Zinzan Brooke would hardly get a look in these days. Maybe I exaggerate, but it’s not just the celtic nations whose players of that era would fade into obscurity nowadays.

The tv licence is a licence for the right to watch tv any tv. The fact that the gov uses this cash to fund the bbc is slightly irrelevant given we all know that the gov decided to remove funding from the bbc that would not mean a zero licence fee. Personally, I would like to see the licence fee funds to be open to all broadcasters for programes that inform, educate or are of cultural significance (I think perhaps itv and c4 already get some subsidy for news?).

@yosoy, pointless argument, mate. The difference between then & now means guys like
Zinzan Brooke would hardly get a look in these days. Maybe I exaggerate, but it’s not just
the celtic nations whose players of that era would fade into obscurity nowadays.

Francois Pienaar, great flanker that he was, only ever got 29 caps for SA. Mad. Once he fell out, he stayed fell out.

Didn’t his cap count get hurt by the apartheid era that meant the Boks didn’t play international rugby till he was 25 then after he fell out he moved to Saracens which made sure there was no chance of a recall?
He was really only available to earn caps for a 4-5 year window.

Little unfair. S’just a shorthand to imply that it features a lot of the usual archetypes of fantasy novels. The fact that it does something interesting and unusual with those features is what makes it a good book. No different to any other genre.

@Claw

Would actually recommend anything by Daniel Abraham – his other, “breakthrough” series – The Long Price Quartet is absolutely stunning. Better than Dagger and Coin and probably better than Leviathan Wakes. Very slow burner though and a very unusual/original bit of worldbuilding, so it’s not for everybody.

@yosoy, are you telling me that players from England & France in those days would be pushing for inclusion now? Either you seriously underrate the current England & France squads or you remember some outstanding players from that era that no-one else does.

Snoop – Pienaar did fall foul of that, although there was also a lot less Test rugby around in those days for the Boks anyway. We were back in ’92 and Pienaar has the distinction of being the only Bok skipper to lose a series on home soil to the All Blacks. Some have never forgiven the stupid soft bastard him for that.

@yosoy, are you telling me that players from England & France in those days would be
pushing for inclusion now? Either you seriously underrate the current England & France
squads or you remember some outstanding players from that era that no-one else does.

I think there’s 2 different conversations going on – you’re talking about how countries handled early professionalism, others are talking about Zinzan-era players (which is late 80s, early 90s, no? Before my time)

I think there’s 2 different conversations going on – you’re talking about how countries
handled early professionalism, others are talking about Zinzan-era players (which is late
80s, early 90s, no? Before my time)

I thought it was early 2000s after I saw someone mention England beating the ABs twice.

Yeah, but 02/03 was hardly the cusp of professionalism. Seems we were talking about different eras. Or is this the old argument that the ABs were professional years before it became official?
The game was professional long before 02/03 in all the major playing nations.

no doubt you are right about Celtic nations in early pro era. my point however is more about ABs never being weak
if you want more modern. Look at Messam, Thompson, Braid brothers,Masoe, Latimer, and the like
all bit part ABs in the shadow of giants like McCaw Kaino or Collins who would doubtless be 1st choice were they available for selection by NH nation ( Incl France nowadays)

no doubt you are right about Celtic nations in early pro era. my point however is more
about ABs never being weak
if you want more modern. Look at Messam, Thompson, Braid brothers,Masoe, Latimer, and
the like

I’d agree, there’s never a weak ABs side. Even when they have not the strongest generationf players, they’re still very, very good compared to most of us.

Gotta fucking work in the morning (Saturday). We have a stocktake & us office wallahs have to take part. I like how we get to mix with the warehouse people, but work on a Saturday just doesn’t seem right. Fucks with my Friday, for a start!

Not sure about Wilson, and there is already reasonable evidence that Wigglesworth does not represent the way forward at international level, but other than that – well, that is really quite a tasty side. I am particularly heartened to see SL prepared to throw caution to the wind with his 3/4 line; that lot can really step, shimmy and shift…

Put Hill in the current England or Lions teams and it becomes a different ballgame. The others not so much.

Much as I rate Hill, and I do rate him extremely highly, I’d prefer Jonno back – quality as a player but also the leadership he brings is something I don’t think England are close to having. He made the right calls under pressure and had a seriously massive desire to win.