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Freeman is the franchise. I'm cool with that. I still see upside and elite potential. Hopefully, elite or not, he's the one with the confetti raining down on him while he holds the Lombardi trophy. (Hopefully in Tampa when the bay area hosts its next Super Bowl!!)

Yeah. I almost mentioned that in my initial post. It was late, I was tired.

I wasn't trying to stir the pot. I think a lot of it is semantics. We all have different definitions for the word 'elite'. Plus, some of those that I mentioned are little more than pedestrian at this point in their career, but were certainly elite one point (Big Ben).

You're right, it doesn't take an elite quarterback to win a championship, every 10 or 20 years someone will come along like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, or Mark Ripein and skew the numbers. But, for every Trent Dilfer, I throw in a Roger Staubach, a Terry Bradshaw, a Joe Montana, and Steve Young. Check the list. You don't NEED an elite quarterback to win the Superbowl, but the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that if you do win a super bowl, chances are you have an elite quarterback at the helm.

3rd, your posts are always spot on whether I disagree or not. You put together a well thought out and researched argument every time these types of discussions come about. Thank you for that. I do agree with you. I think anyone who would pass on Free as their franchise QB in a pool of all young QB's would be questionable at best. It is far to early to give the fuzzy (at best) label of Elite to any 25 year old or expect that level of play from them outside of some of history's greats. Especially one who is on his 3rd OC in just as many full years starting. We just watched a 4TD 400+ yard game come off this mans fingers, yet the first pick he throws in week __, many will post that he is full of bad decisions, terrible awareness etc.

To all in general; I am not in the business of calling people's fan-ness out because it never goes well but I will say, critical or negative (whichever you all feel comfortable calling it), if the only time you post is to complain about the bad things without recognizing or praising the positives/accomplishments, take your crap elsewhere. That in no way is meant for any person in particular as I have blocked most of those offenders but if you are thinking I am talking about you, I probably am.

I have complained about freeman in the past. I agree he has been good the last 2 weeks. in the middle of the saints game we had a chance to put the game further out of reach already up 21-7 but had 2 drives in a row stall out. if we could have put together a long drive on one of those two I think it could have easily been a 10 point swing giving us 3 and the saints one less possession. it looks like freeman is getting the playbook now, vincent jackson is a beast and playing up to his contract we just need to win the key moments of the games and we will be fine.

did I mention our pass defense needs help? we have no pass rush still, and our coverage was atrocious making mistake after mistake yesterday in coverage. we just need to be more disciplined and we will be fine. we are a year or two away from being a good team, everyone is still young.

I hear you but that would mean like we scored on every possession or pretty close to it.

I think looking back, and this is not his fault he's great, if Barth had made that fg...we would of kicked a fg on 4th down at the goal line....we would of been down by 8 instead of 14 when Dallas Clark caught that TD....could of tied it up with a 2pt or at worst down by two fg to win on last drive

I think that FG really killed us offensively. For as bad as the defense played in the 1st half, mainly the 2nd quarter, they played well in the 2nd half. They may have given up some yards but only 7 points but got us key stops in the end that gave us a chance to even tie the game.

With the 1st pick in the 2015 NFL Draft
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers Select

Yeah. I almost mentioned that in my initial post. It was late, I was tired.

I wasn't trying to stir the pot. I think a lot of it is semantics. We all have different definitions for the word 'elite'. Plus, some of those that I mentioned are little more than pedestrian at this point in their career, but were certainly elite one point (Big Ben).

You're right, it doesn't take an elite quarterback to win a championship, every 10 or 20 years someone will come along like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, or Mark Ripein and skew the numbers. But, for every Trent Dilfer, I throw in a Roger Staubach, a Terry Bradshaw, a Joe Montana, and Steve Young. Check the list. You don't NEED an elite quarterback to win the Superbowl, but the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor that if you do win a super bowl, chances are you have an elite quarterback at the helm.

^^^Remember when you told us that Mr. 14 rec. for 126 yards a.k.a. Justin Blackmon was better than Mike Williams and we need to draft him at Number 5 overall...oh by the way Doug Martin has better recieving number than Blackmon lets alone Mike Williams LOL

Broke clock is right twice a day period

With the 1st pick in the 2015 NFL Draft
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers Select

6th in recieving yards
tied for 4th in TDs
1st in yards per reception among WRs with more than 15 receptions

Josh Freeman is BALLIN as well and a lot of people are ignoring it
Top 20 in Passing Yards
Tied for 9th in Passing TDs
4 of the 8 ahead of him in TDs have more INTs
2nd in Yards per attempt among QBs with more than 20 attempts
Tied for 4th in Least amount of sacks among QBs with more than 75 attempts
11th in QB rating among QBs with more than 20 attempts

BEASTLY STATISTICS

With the 1st pick in the 2015 NFL Draft
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers Select

^^^Remember when you told us that Mr. 14 rec. for 126 yards a.k.a. Justin Blackmon was better than Mike Williams and we need to draft him at Number 5 overall...oh by the way Doug Martin has better recieving number than Blackmon lets alone Mike Williams LOL

Broke clock is right twice a day period

So who is Blackmon's QB? Don't worry I'll wait

and with the 12th pick, The New York Football Giants select ......Odell Beckham Jr, Wide Reciever from Louisana State University

Nah not the case. Do you respect Blaine Gabbert and the Jacksonville passing game? No, neither does anyone else. MJD is a great back and Rashad Jennings is decent, teams are stacking the box and trying to stop the run.

With the 1st pick in the 2015 NFL Draft
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers Select

you defend it however you want bro, through the first seven weeks he is the biggest bust of the 2012 draft and thats a fact

LOL.

That's why you don't generally look back at drafts for 3 years...i've watched every Jaguars game, he is far from a bust. Gabbert stares down his receivers and seems to know he is going to pass to before the play even starts. Blackmon has been wide open numerous times and doesn't even get looked at. Don't even start with bust talk.

That's why you don't generally look back at drafts for 3 years...i've watched every Jaguars game, he is far from a bust. Gabbert stares down his receivers and seems to know he is going to pass to before the play even starts. Blackmon has been wide open numerous times and doesn't even get looked at. Don't even start with bust talk.

did you get a notification or something...or just randomly stumbled upon us talking about the jags hah