I'd have made a lousy pilot. I know they tend to catch a few winks here and there while the other watches the controls, but I twitch when I sleep seated. "The captain apologizes for the air turbulence."

Well, let's see. First the earth cooled. And then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat, so they all died and they turned into oil. And then the Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And Prince Charles started wearing all of Lady Di's clothes. I couldn't believe it.

Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

CasperImproved:Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Get back to us when the "pretty automated process" becomes a completely automated process.

King Something:CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

[i.i.com.com image 512x307]Get back to us when the "pretty automated process" becomes a completely automated process.

And if one failure of a pilot out of 1000, fails due to yawning past the autopilot, I guess we should all quiver in our boots and throw them another $100K in salary... hopefully in new pilot recruiting, and culling of the old.

CasperImproved:Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Sure, nowadays 95% of the trip is largely monitoring an automated process. It's that other 5%, takeoff and landing, that's always been the most dangerous and requires trained human pilots.

It really is a boring job. Until it isn't and that is when they have to be conscious. Too much automation can have consequences. B2 Bomber pilots have sleeping cots in the pit as a real requirement. One up, one down...the hours slug by.....Commercial routes are of course no where near the kinds of legs the military flies but having said that, the controls the FAA has on pilot rest are totally bogus.

95629:There are a lot more airline pilots making less than $50k a year than there are making more than $100k a year.

Those $250k/yr salaries you hear about are only in the last few years of a career and only for a very small few lucky guys.

Current FAA rules all pilots to work up to 16 hours duty straight after only 8 hours away from the plane. Not rest... just off the airplane.

The FAA rule is there because of the retarded salaries. The airlines would likely not try to keep the pilots in the seat round the clock unless it was too expensive to hire additional pilots. Seems to me the FAA are just learning from the rules the truck drivers caused to exist. Except in their case, the truck drivers got paid by the mile (carrot), where as the pilots are on a fixed salary.

Different incentive causes to be honest, but same reason for the rules. Tired people do not perform well.

King Something:CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

[i.i.com.com image 512x307]Get back to us when the "pretty automated process" becomes a completely automated process.

This.

I'll gladly pay pilots whatever they want to guarantee not dying that other 1% of the time when the autopilot says "Gee, that's not part of my programming."

CasperImproved:Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

And all of the required training, flight hours, sucktastic schedules, and responsibility... bus driver, sure.

foo monkey:CasperImproved: Should we point out that they are whining about a situation they themselves created?

If they did not require $250K plus salaries to fly what is currently a pretty automated process a monkey could perform, there would be more pilots in rotation. A bus driver could do what the majority of them are required to perform.

Sure, nowadays 95% of the trip is largely monitoring an automated process. It's that other 5%, takeoff and landing, that's always been the most dangerous and requires trained human pilots.

You think bus drivers didn't need to train? Do they expect $250K salary? Same thing with truck drivers.

The only difference is incentive for the long hours, or the lack of them. The FAA and equivalent organizations require "X" hours away from the wheel, and X amount of training. Those are only check and balance moves to make the ruthless companies meet minimum safety requirements. But you think that the airlines, oil companies, or similar companies aren't trying to maneuver around those things all the time?

The owners of the assets/company figure out how best to skin/scam the consumer out of their dollars and impress the stockholders. You think that drivers, pilots, or IT analysts for that matter exist to serve the public good? Or that companies exist to worry about the public?

And the worst assumption of all? That we entrusted the dirty farts we elected into office to oversee our best welfare. Isn't that a hoot.

But back to your original point? Yes, I believe that a monkey could learn to deal with the 5% of what was not automated given proper training in regards to flying a plane. The 1% of that 5% that failed we could learn to deal with. Look at BP and the impact of their sloppy/cheap procedures in protecting the environment they were entrusted to work in. I wonder why they are already back to making a sickeningly amount of profit already. Whats $70Bn in fines/recompense when they can make that up in one or two quarters?