We have all these ideas about the love of God and many a sincere soul has wondered why “evil” exists and why “bad things happen to good people” and other such.

Let us observe the natural world.

The Zebra in the picture would not consider the happening depicted there as “fair” or “right” in any degree.

Does this tell us anything about the nature of God’s principles as it relates to Harmony in Creation?

It tells us –

1. That God’s love is not mushy. God is no lovy-dovy teddy bear. God is strict, unrelenting and exact.

2. That God’s “Harmony” deals with the “Harmony” of entire systems – and not necessarily individuals. God being at the summit of creation sees the “Big Picture” – thus the terrible picture above in God’s sight represents not a tragic and brutal scene but a balanced ecosystem with an orderly food-chain in which cattle population is carefully controlled.

3. That things that may appear brutal or evil – (such as the image above) - may very well have a macro-effect on fostering the balance of all existence – which big picture cannot be seen by the victim or the individual but takes effect at the level of one who has a bird’s eye view.

4. That there is a power dynamic inherent in existence and which devolves upon the laws of God: namely that embedded in existence is the eternal magnetic principle of plus and minus; thus implying “more” and “less” – and thus that active positivity – which is magnetic strength must continuously subsume passive negativity. Part of the implication of this is the picture you see in the post above and this rule also manifests itself in human affairs by the domination of the strong over the weak and the continuous despoil and oppression of the majority by powerful minorities.

5. That thus a proper understanding of the word “harmony” may actually exclude such concepts as absolute peace. There is harmony in the wild: and everything keys into every other thing perfectly. This does not mean that animals will not fight and kill each other – or eat each other for food. The continuous competition inherent in the wild keeps the best species surviving and eliminates weaknesses in the ecosystem – the system – strife and all – is thus perfect and Harmonious.

6. That seeming “good” and seeming “evil” are thus balancing elements necessary in the workings of Divinity.

I can kinda appreciate the "harmony" argument especially when it comes to nature. I'm less convinced that the formula will remain this simple and this true, when applied more complex problems like say - humankind? our intricate, complicated and depraved spiritual nature etc. Interesting write-up nonetheless.

IV. Go, wiser thou! and in thy scale of sense Weigh thy Opinion against Providence; Call Imperfection what thou fancy'st such, Say, here he gives too little, there too much; Destroy all creatures for thy sport or gust,(9) Yet cry, If Man's unhappy, God's unjust; If Man alone ingross not Heav'n's high care, Alone made perfect here, immortal there: Snatch from his hand the balance(10) and the rod, Re-judge his justice, be the GOD of GOD! In Pride, in reas'ning Pride, our error lies; All quit their sphere, and rush into the skies. Pride still is aiming at the blest abodes, Men would be Angels, Angels would be Gods. Aspiring to be Gods, if Angels fell, Aspiring to be Angels, Men rebel; And who but wishes to invert the laws Of ORDER, sins against th' Eternal Cause.

V. Ask for what end the heav'nly bodies shine, Earth for whose use? Pride answers, "Tis for mine: For me kind Nature wakes her genial pow'r, Suckles each herb, and spreads out ev'ry flow'r; Annual for me, the grape, the rose renew The juice nectareous, and the balmy dew; For me, the mine a thousand treasures brings; For me, health gushes from a thousand springs; Seas roll to waft me, suns to light me rise; My foot-stool earth, my canopy the skies." But errs not Nature from this gracious end, From burning suns when livid deaths descend, When earthquakes swallow, or when tempests sweep Towns to one grave, whole nations to the deep? "No ('tis reply'd) the first Almighty Cause Acts not by partial, but by gen'ral laws; Th' exceptions few; some change since all began, And what created perfect?" -- Why then Man? If the great end be human Happiness, Then Nature deviates; and can Man do less? As much that end a constant course requires Of show'rs and sun-shine, as of Man's desires; As much eternal springs and cloudless skies, As Men for ever temp'rate, calm, and wise. If plagues or earthquakes break not Heav'n's design, Why then a Borgia,(11) or a Catiline?(12) Who knows but he, whose hand the light'ning forms, Who heaves old Ocean, and who wings the storms, Pours fierce Ambition in a Caesar's(13) mind, Or turns young Ammon(14) loose to scourge mankind? From pride, from pride, our very reas'ning springs; Account for moral as for nat'ral things: Why charge we Heav'n in those, in these acquit?In both, to reason right is to submit. Better for Us, perhaps, it might appear, Were there all harmony, all virtue here; That never air or ocean felt the wind; That never passion discompos'd the mind: But ALL subsists by elemental strife; and Passions are the elements of Life. The gen'ral ORDER, since the whole began,Is kept in Nature, and is kept in Man.

At least we can find a modicum of peace in scandinavian nations, the USA, much of western Europe. Hmmm where are the islamic nations where such peace and harmony . . . as symbolised by the thread foto . . . can be found?

@ Krayola - Please try to contextualize the definitions of "perfection" and "harmony" with the definition of balance and the magnetic principle of attraction.

@ MyJoe -

This is utterly brilliant -

"No ('tis reply'd) the first Almighty Cause Acts not by partial, but by gen'ral laws; Th' exceptions few; some change since all began, And what created perfect?" -- Why then Man? If the great end be human Happiness, Then Nature deviates; and can Man do less? As much that end a constant course requires Of show'rs and sun-shine, as of Man's desires; As much eternal springs and cloudless skies, As Men for ever temp'rate, calm, and wise. If plagues or earthquakes break not Heav'n's design, Why then a Borgia,(11) or a Catiline?(12) Who knows but he, whose hand the light'ning forms, Who heaves old Ocean, and who wings the storms, Pours fierce Ambition in a Caesar's(13) mind, Or turns young Ammon(14) loose to scourge mankind? From pride, from pride, our very reas'ning springs; Account for moral as for nat'ral things:

Man whines and whines for perfection and cannot recognise it even if it dwelt beneath his nose.

This thread is a good example of the sign of the times we live in . . . 1st Thessalonians 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This thread is a good example of the sign of the times we live in . . . 1st Thessalonians 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

What i meant to say is for example you have a magnet. We understand that opposite ends of its polls attract. The positive to the negative and vice versa.

This for me evinces puristic balance.

It may thus be real balance when it is said that the positive (active and strong) may attract, compel or subsume (draw to itself) the negative (passive. . .). This can work the other way round as well, but i will discuss that some other time.

Did you ever understand what Jesus meant when he stated - "To them who have, more will be given, but to them that do not have, even the little that they have will be taken away from them?"

Could it not be that when you have something, you are able to attract that vibration to yourself and so steadily increase. But that when you have too little, the vibration is weak and cannot attract anything - rather it gets attracted away from you by those with stronger vibrations.

That is balance at work - but it ends up looking as though some are well off and others are in dire straits.

What i meant to say is for example you have a magnet. We understand that opposite ends of its polls attract. The positive to the negative and vice versa.

This for me evinces puristic balance.

It may thus be real balance when it is said that the positive (active and strong) may attract, compel or subsume (draw to itself) the negative (passive. . .). This can work the other way round as well, but i will discuss that some other time.

Did you ever understand what Jesus meant when he stated - "To them who have, more will be given, but to them that do not have, even the little that they have will be taken away from them?"

Could it not be that when you have something, you are able to attract that vibration to yourself and so steadily increase. But that when you have too little, the vibration is weak and cannot attract anything - rather it gets attracted away from you by those with stronger vibrations.

That is balance at work - but it ends up looking as though some are well off and others are in dire straits.

The paradox of the weak and the strong.

you yourself did not understand it, you're simply concocting your own explanation. Read that passage again . . . and in context pls.

^^^ I think David just found himself a sparring partner. Expect fresh life in this section. No Abuzola or Olabowale, this. Knows his onions and Quran and Hadith and Bible and a lot else. You need a Muslim of high intellectual capabilities to match David's around here. Let's hope this guy doesn't disappoint.

lol myjoe . . . the guy is another troll for allah (TFA) who will soon disappear.

Deep Sight:

David and Suhaibu - Can you please take the xtian-muslim fight elsewhere? I really dont want to have this thread derailed.

Thanks in advance and cheers.

you still havent answered the simple riddle you put up urself on the other thread.

This thread is about as relevant as snow in June. you dont understand what you are talking about, you twist the bible forcefully and fraudulently to justify your own version of humanism. You have no coherent stand on anything, you take one part of the bible and jettison the one that exposes the emptiness of your "religion" . . .

What does a lion eating a zebra tell you about God? What does "harmony" have to do with the bible? Is righteousness still = harmony?

I can kinda appreciate the "harmony" argument especially when it comes to nature. I'm less convinced that the formula will remain this simple and this true, when applied more complex problems like say - humankind? our intricate, complicated and depraved spiritual nature etc. Interesting write-up nonetheless.

Am Allah's slave. What is wrong? the creator who created me is able and fit to be my Master. But what about the God of the bible calling the human beings MAGGOT and calling your supposed god, Jesus a worm:

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? how can he be clean that is born of a woman?Job 25:5 when even to the moon is not bright; and the stars are not pure in his sight.Job 25:6 How much less is man, who is but a maggot? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Am Allah's slave. What is wrong? the creator who created me is able and fit to be my Master. But what about the God of the bible calling the human beings MAGGOT and calling your supposed god, Jesus a worm:

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? how can he be clean that is born of a woman?Job 25:5 when even to the moon is not bright; and the stars are not pure in his sight.Job 25:6 How much less is man, who is but a maggot? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Which one do you prefer Davidylyn? to be a slave of God or a MAGGOT?

Don't be silly, Suhaibu

That was Bildad the Shuhite talking, and not God. The only place where God called anyone a worm (a.k.a maggot) was Isaiah 41:14, and he was speaking of Israel when Israel was fearfully trembling like a worm in the face of adversity, like an earthworm caught in the rain.

[size=18pt]Job 25:1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, [/size]Job 25:2 Dominion and fear are with him, he maketh peace in his high places. Job 25:3 Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise? Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Job 25:5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. Job 25:6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

[size=18pt]Job 25:1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said, [/size]Job 25:2 Dominion and fear are with him, he maketh peace in his high places. Job 25:3 Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise? Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Job 25:5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. Job 25:6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Read things properly before you talk trash.

Suhaibu is learned . . . he is simply practicing the usual islamic game of lies and deciet. No surprises here.