Upgrade... then start all over. —

Wii U Virtual Console “upgrades” will leave save files trapped

New features come at the expense of previous in-game progress.

Here at Ars Technica, we've had some recentpersonalexperience with how Nintendo's DRM schemes can get in the way of using downloadable titles on new hardware. And now, new details about how the Wii U's Virtual Console will interact with previously purchased titles has us wondering.

As announced last week, the Wii U Virtual Console is a completely separate beast from the one on the Wii. It includes new features like independent play on the touchscreen GamePad, customizable controls, and a connection to the Miiverse social forums. If you want these new features on a game you already bought and downloaded on the Wii, you'll have to pay a small upgrade fee: $1 for NES games or $1.50 for SNES games.

All in all, this could be worse. Sure it's a bit galling to pay again for a downloadable game you already own, but at least Nintendo isn't charging the full price of $5 to $9 for previous purchasers. Plus, you do get some new features for your outlay.

But there's a catch to this upgrade process. As Nintendo recently confirmed to Kotaku, save files associated with your old Wii downloads won't be transferable to the new version downloaded for the Wii U. Even if those save files are sitting on your Wii U, transferred over from an older system, they can't be used by the "upgraded" version of the game. There's probably some arcane technical reason for this distinction, perhaps related to the onerous DRM Nintendo places on its downloadable games, but the specifics don't matter too much if you want to continue your old games on the GamePad.

Of course, players can still play their old save files by going into the Wii menu and hunting down the original download, transferred over from the old Wii. But that version won't have the new features they've paid for. And considering these consumers have now paid to download this game twice, asking them to start the upgraded version over from scratch is a bit insulting. Imagine if a PC game maker released an expansion pack or patch that allowed a popular game to work with newer hardware but made it so all old save files didn't work if you upgraded. It seems exceedingly unlikely—players would be rightly angry.

Yes, many classic NES and SNES games aren't really long enough to depend on save files, which lessens the practical impact of this issue. Still, it continues a pattern of DRM and versioning decisions that make it clear you're not fully in control of the games you download from Nintendo.

Promoted Comments

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

I'm not saying that this isn't an issue, just that it isn't necessarily a new one. I'm hoping that this issue relates to a different build structure and not just assholishness.

Sword of the Stars 2, when it released it's first free expansion, broke all prior save games. Since it was distributed on Steam, I had the update downloaded and installed automatically while I was at work, instantly erasing my 40 hours or so into my previous game.

2 posts | registered Jan 22, 2013

Kyle Orland
Kyle is the Senior Gaming Editor at Ars Technica, specializing in video game hardware and software. He has journalism and computer science degrees from University of Maryland. He is based in the Washington, DC area. Emailkyle.orland@arstechnica.com//Twitter@KyleOrl

I'll pay for the upgrades, but this is a drag. If I put 40 hours into a 16-bit RPG, by golly I'd like to keep that save file around. If they decide not to address this before the VC actually launches, I'll probably end up playing the games I bought in an emulator on my PC. Because, who knows, this will probably happen again in 6 years when the next console launches.

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

I'm not saying that this isn't an issue, just that it isn't necessarily a new one. I'm hoping that this issue relates to a different build structure and not just assholishness.

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

I'm not saying that this isn't an issue, just that it isn't necessarily a new one. I'm hoping that this issue relates to a different build structure and not just assholishness.

Sword of the Stars 2, when it released it's first free expansion, broke all prior save games. Since it was distributed on Steam, I had the update downloaded and installed automatically while I was at work, instantly erasing my 40 hours or so into my previous game.

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

The bane of Nintendo has always been the ability to widen the seeming tunnel vision of what is the best idea for product longevity and usefulness. The argument can be made that the Wii has been around for a little less than 6 years and that in itself is longevity. However, as a Wii owner myself and knowing Wii owners, aside from a few of the outstanding first and third party titles, the usefulness as a living room device suffered.

Take that opinion for what you will but I think that Nintendo also had 4-6 (depending on finalization of console hardware) years to examine the competition and to listen to what features Microsoft and Sony customers loved and hated about their own consoles.

I haven't bought a Wii U and this will be a console that I will skip out on. Nintendo hasn't listened and once again has taken great missteps in not only designing the console hardware, but hamstringing the operating system and features at launch.

I love the idea of playing these games on the GamePad while I watch hockey on the big screen.

The save thing isn't a huge deal for games like Super Mario Bros. But for a game like Ocarina of Time where I may want to replay the final boss or a dungeon (since I have a few save files at different parts of the game), it's kind of annoying.

So what, precisely, is the "upgrade fee" paying for then? I mean, if that fee is being charged to help recoup development costs (because we know they couldn't fund that out of the tens of millions in revenues from prior VC purchases). I guess that only buys you save states, not transferring saved games over. Because that might have taken real development time, which might have cut into the pure profit they get by charging you to play Super Mario Brothers yet again on your Wii U.

Based on my experience with the Virtual Console, most of the games either A) don't have save features (Super Mario Bos., Excitebike, etc.), or they are games enjoyable enough for me to warrant playing through again (Final Fantasy I, Yoshi's Story, Kirby 64, etc.)

Luckily for me, I hardly bought anything from the Wii Virtual Console. However, with this move, I'm now wondering if anything I get now on the Wii U might have problems down the line, with Nintendo's next console.

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

I believe it was Fallout of some sort, or maybe Dishonored.

Most of the games that I remember having these issues were RPGs, so those probably fit within the spectrum. There have been several over the last decade that I just stopped playing due to issues like this, in fact, issues like this are one of the reasons that I have been an Xbox Live member for nearly eight years. These issues obviously can still happen on consoles, but don't seem as ubiquitous on them.

I'm surprised people are complaining about the $0.99 - $1.49 upgrade fee. Seems pretty reasonable to me considering they do have to invest time and money to bring these games to the Wii U with the added features.

Could you imagine if Paramount gave you the new Top Gun Blu-Ray for $1 if you already owned the DVD?

Based on my experience with the Virtual Console, most of the games either A) don't have save features (Super Mario Bos., Excitebike, etc.), or they are games enjoyable enough for me to warrant playing through again (Final Fantasy I, Yoshi's Story, Kirby 64, etc.)

The big problems come when you get into epic-scale RPGs or other large format games that require tens of hours to complete. Technical issues aside, this is just silly that a publisher would release a new version of a game on a console capable of supporting prior versions that cannot access the save information of the prior version.

Thinking on it some more, I wonder if these incompatibilities could just be something more stupid than onerous. I remember that the first digital distribution of Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on the 360 was entirely incompatible with the disc version due to a tweaked file naming convention. Let's just hope that Nintendo magically finds a similar reason and remedies it soon.

It blows my mind how Nintendo can keep smashing their head into the wall. Why can't they just hire someone from Valve or MS that will explain to them, in small easy to understand sentences, how to do the scary new things like "online" and "virtual storefront".

I'm surprised people are complaining about the $0.99 - $1.49 upgrade fee. Seems pretty reasonable to me considering they do have to invest time and money to bring these games to the Wii U with the added features.

Could you imagine if Paramount gave you the new Top Gun Blu-Ray for $1 if you already owned the DVD?

There are hardly any new features. It's basically an update to their emulator. Why should I have to rebuy that for every title? The games themselves aren't changing at all. Just the software surrounding it. A $1 fee for that maybe, but every title no. Sony doesn't make me rebuy games every time they add features to an emulator. For example using the touchscreen/touchpad as buttons for PS1 games on the Vita, while that was impossible on the PSP.

It be like if my new DVD player supported a zoom function and the ability to change audio tracks but I was required to buy this for every DVD I owned if I wanted to use it.

I'm surprised people are complaining about the $0.99 - $1.49 upgrade fee. Seems pretty reasonable to me considering they do have to invest time and money to bring these games to the Wii U with the added features.

Could you imagine if Paramount gave you the new Top Gun Blu-Ray for $1 if you already owned the DVD?

Why not? I had something similar happen to me with Rayman Jungle Run and lost my save data when the game got updated. It's only $3.99 for the game, but I lost hours of work and stopped playing it entirely, even though I generally enjoyed that game.

What added "features" do we get for that $1/$1.50? The ability to play it on the gamepad and... ??? Maybe I missed something here. I haven't followed the Wii U as closely as the last gen releases, so can someone fill me in?

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

I'm not saying that this isn't an issue, just that it isn't necessarily a new one. I'm hoping that this issue relates to a different build structure and not just assholishness.

Sword of the Stars 2, when it released it's first free expansion, broke all prior save games. Since it was distributed on Steam, I had the update downloaded and installed automatically while I was at work, instantly erasing my 40 hours or so into my previous game.

Still have not tried to play that after release...that game had a lot more wrong with it than that.

What added "features" do we get for that $1/$1.50? The ability to play it on the gamepad and... ??? Maybe I missed something here. I haven't followed the Wii U as closely as the last gen releases, so can someone fill me in?

Save States, and you can adjust the controls. Plus the game pad bit. That's it. So it's almost on par with free emulator for everything else.

What added "features" do we get for that $1/$1.50? The ability to play it on the gamepad and... ??? Maybe I missed something here. I haven't followed the Wii U as closely as the last gen releases, so can someone fill me in?

The ability to play it on the gamepad, save states and the ability to customize controls to any button configuration you want.

What added "features" do we get for that $1/$1.50? The ability to play it on the gamepad and... ??? Maybe I missed something here. I haven't followed the Wii U as closely as the last gen releases, so can someone fill me in?

Miiverse integration mainly. The updated emulator also lets you use save states and re-map the controller configuration.

Instead of piece mealing it to $1/$1.50 a game, offer a straight up $10 or $20 transfer/upgrade fee. Seems reasonable for the added features. Lots would pay that and be happy.

Option 2:

Offer the updated games for free as a content patch, enticing people with big Wii Virtual Console libraries to upgrade to a Wii U and not having to worrying about losing all their games. Reassures your previous customers more backwards compatibility and to upgrade consoles earlier then they have planned (maybe they want only 1-2 games out right now, waiting until 5+ games are out that they would play). The route they are taking gives no incentive to upgrade anytime soon.

It will be interesting how the PS4 and XBox 720 will treat previous downloaded games.

Also, another reason why the PC is great for older games and playing your current digital library!

Technical reason:Back in the day of cartridges the developers, due to space constraints, would save your game directly into the game data. Sometimes this would be as a self contained block, but more often it would put bits over here, over there, etc, because time (to finish coding) and storage space would be limited.

The Wii ports of the games from the store are much less re-written ports, and more rebuilt from the same source, of which your save games are stored in the same manner. As one might guess, pulling bits of code and data from the Wii version and embedding them into the enhanced WiiU version wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, expecially as the documentation on which save bits were stored where is non-existant.

This is why the old version that was copied from the Wii still has your save game, but the new downloaded & enhanced version does not.

What added "features" do we get for that $1/$1.50? The ability to play it on the gamepad and... ??? Maybe I missed something here. I haven't followed the Wii U as closely as the last gen releases, so can someone fill me in?

The ability to play it on the gamepad, save states and the ability to customize controls to any button configuration you want.

This sounds like my Nexus 7 with emulation and Bluetooth controller...

The recent X-Com Enemy Unknown had the upgrade issue with the Slingshot expansion, new save games only. Its not unheard of, it just sucks for any Wii VC where there's potentially a huge outlay in hours played.

My Super Mario World save? Wont complain, just an excuse to replay the levels I was probably already replaying. Something like a super grinded FF game where everyone is level 99? Hell no.

Technical reason:Back in the day of cartridges the developers, due to space constraints, would save your game directly into the game data. Sometimes this would be as a self contained block, but more often it would put bits over here, over there, etc, because time (to finish coding) and storage space would be limited.

The Wii ports of the games from the store are much less re-written ports, and more rebuilt from the same source, of which your save games are stored in the same manner. As one might guess, pulling bits of code and data from the Wii version and embedding them into the enhanced WiiU version wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, expecially as the documentation on which save bits were stored where is non-existant.

This is why the old version that was copied from the Wii still has your save game, but the new downloaded & enhanced version does not.

I can't recall specific games, but I think that similar scenarios HAVE happened several times throughout recent history when developers release a patch for a game that cannot use save files from previous versions of the game.

I'm not saying that this isn't an issue, just that it isn't necessarily a new one. I'm hoping that this issue relates to a different build structure and not just assholishness.

Sword of the Stars 2, when it released it's first free expansion, broke all prior save games. Since it was distributed on Steam, I had the update downloaded and installed automatically while I was at work, instantly erasing my 40 hours or so into my previous game.

Fallout 2's (PC) first patch didn't work with previous game saves. I had already invested 40 hours and never went back again.

Technical reason:Back in the day of cartridges the developers, due to space constraints, would save your game directly into the game data. Sometimes this would be as a self contained block, but more often it would put bits over here, over there, etc, because time (to finish coding) and storage space would be limited.

The Wii ports of the games from the store are much less re-written ports, and more rebuilt from the same source, of which your save games are stored in the same manner. As one might guess, pulling bits of code and data from the Wii version and embedding them into the enhanced WiiU version wouldn't be the easiest thing to do, expecially as the documentation on which save bits were stored where is non-existant.

This is why the old version that was copied from the Wii still has your save game, but the new downloaded & enhanced version does not.

The Wii ports aren't ports but ROM files running in an emulator. They aren't rebuilt for Wii at all. It's also not really even that difficult to get saves off real SNES cart if you have the proper hardware like a Retrode.

Most of a cartridge is ROM Chips(Read-Only Memory, so they're only written once), the save file would usually be kept in a RAM chip that would be kept on by the battery, save's were not strewn about all over the chip as that would be extremely hardware inefficient. It's cheaper to have a bunch of ROM chips with empty space than a few full RAM ICs.

I can't even think of a single emulator that doesn't store save files from games in a separate file from the ROM either.