PvP should get more love

You bring up a couple of interesting points. But I would like to counter your first argument with that pvers get just as much hate if not more hate with the fact that pvers are currently in a good situation right now with WoW and D3 focusing on pve. This goes back to one of my previous points with that PvEers have very very very little reason to complain about pvp. On a side note pvpers have a lot of resentment for pve partially because good pve gear is VERY viable in high-level pvp, where as good pvp gear is crap for high level pve (this is of course in reference to WoW).

Let me counter it with several points then. Both WoW and D3 are mainly PvE games for the most part. If PvE wasn't in a good situation then their classification as such would not be correct or more than likely the situation for both style of games would probably be poor. Such as developers giving both PvE and PvP poor quality. This could be partially seen in WoW's case where patch after patch focused on trying to balance PvP at the cost of the PvE experience while not always helping the PvP either.

As for the gear thing that's suggesting resentment on the part of the PvPr not the PvEr, which is also undue as the PvEr is no the developer that makes the gear. Part of the reason is that the gear might not reverse is in part that PvP is focused on killing other players while PvE is focused on killing everything. It's part of the reason why Diablo is doing the separation of PvE and PvP abilities (with the diff. cooldowns, etc.). Something you use in a massive battle with a dungeon boss that can prove long and grueling, whos abilities outweigh any single player kinda would have to be good enough to face other players. On the other hand the reverse something used to fight people of equal level and skill with abilites equivalent to your own wouldn't be viable in the fight.

Your second statement gave me something to think about, but I stand by my view that those statements, as mild as they may seem, are just as infuriating as direct-hateful statements. Look, as I have said, the pvers already have Blizz focusing on pve. Why should they cry Bloody-murder? PvPers know this and I don't want to sound emo or anything (I just want to make a point) but sometimes negligence is far more damaging than negative effects.

I have to give you that, different statements can set people off. Though I will say that there is a difference in perception here, where there isn't a good response to someone that believes they've been wronged. Passion doesn't always follow a logical course after all. So my only advice is take a few breaths and consider their perspective. Then of course realize that isn't fully possible as any rational will often still be painted by your own ideals. Like they say things happen three ways. The way you see it, the way the other person sees it, and the way it actually happened.

Also Blizz will be taking time to focus solely on PvP. PvE is not crying murder about that, the only thing they've offered resistance to is people complaining or suggesting ideas that are either counter productive (ex. bring back hostility) or would likely deeply impact the core game of PvE (ex. e-sport). So um as for negligence, sorry that a secondary feature in the game doesn't warrant a primary focus? Sorry that the manufacturers decided instead of half ass hostility they are giving PvP an actual system? That what they had shown wasn't enough or fitting for the fans? PvP is right they are definitely ignoring... no wait that actually sounds a lot like the developers are giving some of that loving. Damn. Oh and there are PvErs actually interested in it to the point of playing in it, which could create a more vitalized and varied playing experience for all and make it more part of the community environment dragging it out of niche status in a game where it's oft considered its own thing? Well that certainly doesn't sound like negligence to me that sounds like they had some tough decisions to make and while they could have repeated past mistakes they decided to try and take a few apologetic steps forward instead.

I have no problems with PVP in Diablo, nor should anyone.
- 1v1, 2v2 etc Arena with ratings
- Mutual Dueling through prompt window acceptance outside of any town.
- Other fun mini game addons like CTF, Round Robin 1v1 Quick Matches etc.

I do have problems with certain elements of PVP influencing the PVM (game focus).
- Hostility
- Skills being balanced around PVP which will affect my Diablo PVM game play experience.

Public ratings offer little to the community other then bragging rights. So I'm against them. I've seen how they cause people to react and I would personally prefer any sort of rating system to be private.

Open world dueling cannot work in Diablo 3. If two people duel in a public game, they essentially stall the game for the two other players. I think any system for duels should be kept to the Arena system and not done open world style.

I have no problems with PVP in Diablo, nor should anyone.
- 1v1, 2v2 etc Arena with ratings
- Mutual Dueling through prompt window acceptance outside of any town.
- Other fun mini game addons like CTF, Round Robin 1v1 Quick Matches etc.

I do have problems with certain elements of PVP influencing the PVM (game focus).
- Hostility
- Skills being balanced around PVP which will affect my Diablo PVM game play experience.

Public ratings offer little to the community other then bragging rights. So I'm against them. I've seen how they cause people to react and I would personally prefer any sort of rating system to be private.

Open world dueling cannot work in Diablo 3. If two people duel in a public game, they essentially stall the game for the two other players. I think any system for duels should be kept to the Arena system and not done open world style.

Other then those two things, I'm all for PvP in Diablo 3.

So does trading stall the game as well?
Does me going afk or going to town at all stall the game? There are a ton of ways to stall the game, to have that as your reason for no dueling is just blind hate.

So does trading stall the game as well?
Does me going afk or going to town at all stall the game? There are a ton of ways to stall the game, to have that as your reason for no dueling is just blind hate.

Trading DOES stall the game. Though of course, Blizzard designed the game specifically to create a downtime period when people get full on gear and need to make a stop at town to sell items and trade. People wanting to duel to see who's better can take it to the Arena. There is little to no reason to allow dueling mid-game. Can you give me a good example, rather then insinuating that I hate PvP when I specifically have stated multiple times that I'm looking forward to the casual PvP in Diablo 3.

So does trading stall the game as well?
Does me going afk or going to town at all stall the game? There are a ton of ways to stall the game, to have that as your reason for no dueling is just blind hate.

Trading DOES stall the game. Though of course, Blizzard designed the game specifically to create a downtime period when people get full on gear and need to make a stop at town to sell items and trade. People wanting to duel to see who's better can take it to the Arena. There is little to no reason to allow dueling mid-game. Can you give me a good example, rather then insinuating that I hate PvP when I specifically have stated multiple times that I'm looking forward to the casual PvP in Diablo 3.

Simple, just leveled...got a nice new skill or hey just found a nice new item and want to test it out with your buddies, oh whats that I have to leave my game and make a new one just to mess around for a few minutes? Then I have to leave that game and make ANOTHER game and then REPEAT what I just did? Wow...that is retarded. I shouldn't have to make 3 games to get back to where I was, and I shouldn't have to redo anything when I shouldn't have to.

My god some are you are brain dead.Diablo Universe previous to Diablo 3 has always been about both PVE and PVP+players who only play it for the lore/story line.

Stop saying your way is the right way,and Diablo means only PVP and bull shit like that.Diablo 3 is build the same way as Diablo 2.You can have PVE,you can have PVP and you can play it for the story line.

There`s absolutely zero reason why you cant PVP like before.You previously did it to have fun and maybe show you are the best,you can still do that now.

Also if you dont like it,dont buy it.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

Tumbling, burning with white hot fire, I plunged into the depths of the abyss. Unspeakable pain, relentless agony, time ceased to exist. Only this torture and a deepening hatred of the hypocrisy that damned me to this hell. An eternity passed and my torment receded, bringing me back from the precipice of madness. The descent had destroyed me. Yet, I lived.

Simple, just leveled...got a nice new skill or hey just found a nice new item and want to test it out with your buddies, oh whats that I have to leave my game and make a new one just to mess around for a few minutes? Then I have to leave that game and make ANOTHER game and then REPEAT what I just did? Wow...that is retarded. I shouldn't have to make 3 games to get back to where I was, and I shouldn't have to redo anything when I shouldn't have to.

So, because you want to goof off with your friend...the other two people in the public game must wait while you test our your new item for PvP when they don't care about PvP at all? Sure.. sounds perfectly reasonable. If it was limited purely to private games, I guess wouldn't have much to complain about. So sure.. duels.. but only in private games. How's that? Fair enough?

My god some are you are brain dead.Diablo Universe previous to Diablo 3 has always been about both PVE and PVP+players who only play it for the lore/story line.

Stop saying your way is the right way,and Diablo means only PVP and bull shit like that.Diablo 3 is build the same way as Diablo 2.You can have PVE,you can have PVP and you can play it for the story line.

There`s absolutely zero reason why you cant PVP like before.You previously did it to have fun and maybe show you are the best,you can still do that now.

Also if you dont like it,dont buy it.

Well, you see...the reason people are complaining is that Diablo 3 doesn't have the same features of Diablo 2. Instead of going with the tacked on hostility system that existed in Diablo 2, they are actually giving PvP its own system completely. However, this takes away people's freedom to run around and kill people that don't want to PvP... and it seems PvP'ers feel they need to be allowed to do that. If not to kill others, to hold up the progression of two other players in a public game while they goof off with their friend.

I have nothing against PvP in Diablo 3. However, it has always been the case that the Diablo series has been designed around the storyline and PvM gameplay. Sure, you could PvP in all the games...but PvP was always tacked on. People got so used to that tacked on gameplay that being forced to PvP with enforced rules is a terrible thing. Honestly, I'm really looking forward to Arena. It should be a great break from running Inferno.

Simple, just leveled...got a nice new skill or hey just found a nice new item and want to test it out with your buddies, oh whats that I have to leave my game and make a new one just to mess around for a few minutes? Then I have to leave that game and make ANOTHER game and then REPEAT what I just did? Wow...that is retarded. I shouldn't have to make 3 games to get back to where I was, and I shouldn't have to redo anything when I shouldn't have to.

So, because you want to goof off with your friend...the other two people in the public game must wait while you test our your new item for PvP when they don't care about PvP at all? Sure.. sounds perfectly reasonable. If it was limited purely to private games, I guess wouldn't have much to complain about. So sure.. duels.. but only in private games. How's that? Fair enough?

My god some are you are brain dead.Diablo Universe previous to Diablo 3 has always been about both PVE and PVP+players who only play it for the lore/story line.

Stop saying your way is the right way,and Diablo means only PVP and bull shit like that.Diablo 3 is build the same way as Diablo 2.You can have PVE,you can have PVP and you can play it for the story line.

There`s absolutely zero reason why you cant PVP like before.You previously did it to have fun and maybe show you are the best,you can still do that now.

Also if you dont like it,dont buy it.

Well, you see...the reason people are complaining is that Diablo 3 doesn't have the same features of Diablo 2. Instead of going with the tacked on hostility system that existed in Diablo 2, they are actually giving PvP its own system completely. However, this takes away people's freedom to run around and kill people that don't want to PvP... and it seems PvP'ers feel they need to be allowed to do that. If not to kill others, to hold up the progression of two other players in a public game while they goof off with their friend.

I have nothing against PvP in Diablo 3. However, it has always been the case that the Diablo series has been designed around the storyline and PvM gameplay. Sure, you could PvP in all the games...but PvP was always tacked on. People got so used to that tacked on gameplay that being forced to PvP with enforced rules is a terrible thing. Honestly, I'm really looking forward to Arena. It should be a great break from running Inferno.

People really need to understand that its because game mechanics they were allowed to do that.Im sure Blizzard would have implemented a Arena system back then also if the game platform would have allowed that.Like you said Diablo is more about pve and story line then pvp.

I find it really ironic that they blast Diablo 3 for being like WOW,when WOW has in its design&concept to have players go kill other players in there "comfort" zones.I will agree on something though t with set people,wow does really suck

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

Tumbling, burning with white hot fire, I plunged into the depths of the abyss. Unspeakable pain, relentless agony, time ceased to exist. Only this torture and a deepening hatred of the hypocrisy that damned me to this hell. An eternity passed and my torment receded, bringing me back from the precipice of madness. The descent had destroyed me. Yet, I lived.

Simple, just leveled...got a nice new skill or hey just found a nice new item and want to test it out with your buddies, oh whats that I have to leave my game and make a new one just to mess around for a few minutes? Then I have to leave that game and make ANOTHER game and then REPEAT what I just did? Wow...that is retarded. I shouldn't have to make 3 games to get back to where I was, and I shouldn't have to redo anything when I shouldn't have to.

So, because you want to goof off with your friend...the other two people in the public game must wait while you test our your new item for PvP when they don't care about PvP at all? Sure.. sounds perfectly reasonable. If it was limited purely to private games, I guess wouldn't have much to complain about. So sure.. duels.. but only in private games. How's that? Fair enough?

Well lets see, I gave you a perfectly valid and good reason to allow it and all you did was pretty much deny it haha. It is no different then trading or dicking off in town. Your blind hate for anything PvP related is showing again, might wanna cover that up. I got an idea, cover it up with more BS about esports or PvP vs PvM haha.

I love how anyone thinks that you bitching on the diablofans forums is going to change the fact that the game has always been focused on PvM and that isnt going to change no matter how much you cry about pvp

Well lets see, I gave you a perfectly valid and good reason to allow it and all you did was pretty much deny it haha. It is no different then trading or dicking off in town. Your blind hate for anything PvP related is showing again, might wanna cover that up. I got an idea, cover it up with more BS about esports or PvP vs PvM haha.

Actually, how about you go back and read my post again. I believe I specifically stated that as long as it was limited to private games only, I could see duels. There is a clear difference between trading items between people that are all contributing towards the same goals (especially since Diablo 3 kind of has established town visits) and dueling with your friend, holding everyone up.

I don't hate PvP, I've been offering suggestions on various threads about how they could improve PvP without impacting the core of the game. This is another such instance, where I can concede that open-world dueling would be perfectly fine if it was kept to private games. In public games, the goal is definitely PvM. If you're already going to be playing with friends, why do you need it to be a public game to duel? The only reason I could see doing it is to 'call someone out' and bug them duel you. That isn't a feature that aids the goal of public games.. and I see no good reason for it to exist.

Well lets see, I gave you a perfectly valid and good reason to allow it and all you did was pretty much deny it haha. It is no different then trading or dicking off in town. Your blind hate for anything PvP related is showing again, might wanna cover that up. I got an idea, cover it up with more BS about esports or PvP vs PvM haha.

Actually, how about you go back and read my post again. I believe I specifically stated that as long as it was limited to private games only, I could see duels. There is a clear difference between trading items between people that are all contributing towards the same goals (especially since Diablo 3 kind of has established town visits) and dueling with your friend, holding everyone up.

I don't hate PvP, I've been offering suggestions on various threads about how they could improve PvP without impacting the core of the game. This is another such instance, where I can concede that open-world dueling would be perfectly fine if it was kept to private games. In public games, the goal is definitely PvM. If you're already going to be playing with friends, why do you need it to be a public game to duel? The only reason I could see doing it is to 'call someone out' and bug them duel you. That isn't a feature that aids the goal of public games.. and I see no good reason for it to exist.

Right so I should be secluded to only private games, that is fair. Is that not the same exact complaint that many PvM'ers had in Diablo 1 and 2 because of being PK'd? So your solution is to segregate the community. Adding a duel function would and will not ruin the game by any means, at least not anymore then trading or repairing or chatting does. Also by your theory of how Diablo plays, it is a function that will get little play time, much less then trading or PvMing at least, so there is nothing to worry about. Why should we be thrown in the corner because we don't and shouldn't have to make 3 games to complete one simple task when it is only used for what a 5 second duel? Trading takes longer then a duel does haha.

And trading does not involve everyone in the game, only 2 of the 4 tops. Also about your mandatory visits to town, I only went to town in the beta because they forced me too, did I stay there beyond starting next quest...nope. Now lets say I do stay there, because I wanna get all of the lore and everything else but hey you don't want to...guess getting lore and other stuff that hinders the game speed should be put in private games only too right?

Right so I should be secluded to only private games, that is fair. Is that not the same exact complaint that many PvM'ers had in Diablo 1 and 2 because of being PK'd? So your solution is to segregate the community. Adding a duel function would and will not ruin the game by any means, at least not anymore then trading or repairing or chatting does. Also by your theory of how Diablo plays, it is a function that will get little play time, much less then trading or PvMing at least, so there is nothing to worry about. Why should we be thrown in the corner because we don't and shouldn't have to make 3 games to complete one simple task when it is only used for what a 5 second duel? Trading takes longer then a duel does haha.

And trading does not involve everyone in the game, only 2 of the 4 tops. Also about your mandatory visits to town, I only went to town in the beta because they forced me too, did I stay there beyond starting next quest...nope. Now lets say I do stay there, because I wanna get all of the lore and everything else but hey you don't want to...guess getting lore and other stuff that hinders the game speed should be put in private games only too right?

You know, I love how you dodge around my questions. Why do you need dueling in public games? If your whole point of having duels is to play with specific friends and duel to test out new equipment you gain while playing with them...aren't private games good enough?

Honestly, since public games in Diablo 3 focus specifically around completing quests or grinding inferno...what's the point? If a duel takes 5 seconds like you say, then there wouldn't even be any point to dueling at all even. Unless of course you were actually duel quite a bit more to actually get accurate information. No, the only use I can see duels in public games is creating a situation where someone goes "Duel me!" and then when the person says no... "Wha.. too chicken, you'll probably lose anyways..". The WHOLE purpose of public games is to do PvM content...this is VERY evident by the way public games work and the separation of PvP into Arenas. Implementing dueling in public games would go against the very design of the game...and for what benefit?

Honestly, it seems like you're grasping at straws trying to justify a PvP feature that doesn't belong. How would public game duels benefit the OVERALL community? The few that want duels vs the majority that want to PvM. How do you justify adding a feature that goes completely contrary to the game's design? How would it benefit everyone?...

Right so I should be secluded to only private games, that is fair. Is that not the same exact complaint that many PvM'ers had in Diablo 1 and 2 because of being PK'd? So your solution is to segregate the community. Adding a duel function would and will not ruin the game by any means, at least not anymore then trading or repairing or chatting does. Also by your theory of how Diablo plays, it is a function that will get little play time, much less then trading or PvMing at least, so there is nothing to worry about. Why should we be thrown in the corner because we don't and shouldn't have to make 3 games to complete one simple task when it is only used for what a 5 second duel? Trading takes longer then a duel does haha.

And trading does not involve everyone in the game, only 2 of the 4 tops. Also about your mandatory visits to town, I only went to town in the beta because they forced me too, did I stay there beyond starting next quest...nope. Now lets say I do stay there, because I wanna get all of the lore and everything else but hey you don't want to...guess getting lore and other stuff that hinders the game speed should be put in private games only too right?

You know, I love how you dodge around my questions. Why do you need dueling in public games? If your whole point of having duels is to play with specific friends and duel to test out new equipment you gain while playing with them...aren't private games good enough?

Honestly, since public games in Diablo 3 focus specifically around completing quests or grinding inferno...what's the point? If a duel takes 5 seconds like you say, then there wouldn't even be any point to dueling at all even. Unless of course you were actually duel quite a bit more to actually get accurate information. No, the only use I can see duels in public games is creating a situation where someone goes "Duel me!" and then when the person says no... "Wha.. too chicken, you'll probably lose anyways..". The WHOLE purpose of public games is to do PvM content...this is VERY evident by the way public games work and the separation of PvP into Arenas. Implementing dueling in public games would go against the very design of the game...and for what benefit?

Honestly, it seems like you're grasping at straws trying to justify a PvP feature that doesn't belong. How would public game duels benefit the OVERALL community? The few that want duels vs the majority that want to PvM...how do you justify adding a feature that goes completely contrary to the game's design? Stop dodging around the question and answer it...how would it benefit everyone?... My answer?... I won't.

Nothing ever benefits everyone. Trading does not benefit me in game because ill use the AH. Chatting doesn't benefit me because I could care less what randoms have to say. PvMing with others doesn't benefit me because they will slow me down.

Everything you say to remove PvP from public games can be used to remove every feature in the game. Why don't you now answer the question, why the hell should I have to make 3 games to do such a simple task that bothers people even less then a trade or a lore stop? Instead of dodging the question because you simply have no good answer.

Nothing ever benefits everyone. Trading does not benefit me in game because ill use the AH. Chatting doesn't benefit me because I could care less what randoms have to say. PvMing with others doesn't benefit me because they will slow me down.

Everything you say to remove PvP from public games can be used to remove every feature in the game. Why don't you now answer the question, why the hell should I have to make 3 games to do such a simple task that bothers people even less then a trade or a lore stop? Instead of dodging the question because you simply have no good answer.

So.. you just said you won't be joining public games? Why do you need dueling in public games then?

Of course nothing benefits everyone, I was using the word everyone context to refer to the majority. Public open-world dueling only benefits the minority of the minority as many PvP players will still predominantly PvP in Arena. However, the negatives it can cause for the majority are numerous. So, how is public dueling a good feature for the game?

As for why you should have to make a separate game to go duel...it's simple...public games aren't for PvP. The End. I've already explained why. Blizzard themselves have giving PvP it's own spot in Diablo 3, separate from PvM. This is just how it is, end of story. The negatives outweigh the benefits. I'm willing to concede that private dueling could have some merit, but public games are meant for players to progress on quests and complete the story. Sure trading might hinder progression a lil, but it is accounted for by purposely bringing people to town as well as Blizzard taking away the ability to sell from within a dungeon. Lore stops likewise are expected stops as they are integrated into the game. Why add another feature that creates delay when it is counter productive to the primary goal of public games and generally will cause more harm then good?

You want Diablo 2 PvP back, I get that. Why you want it back, I don't really get as your reasoning seems quite flawed. You wouldn't go into an instance in WoW and stop everything to duel your friend to test a dagger you just got. Heck, you didn't even go into a PvM game in Diablo 2 and start dueling with a friend while the team was trying to kill Diablo. Why should to be allowed to do it in Diablo 3?

Then why on earth would you ever need to be able to duel in public games? gg bro

Well first off, ill join public games only if noone else is on so I can get the added experience, I will not play with randoms however. Ill just pass them up and kill everything in their game.

Secondly, if I was to ever play with someone in a public game and they want to duel me, or I want to test out their build I can't. Because apparently it is correct design to force us to make 3 games to do one action. If you are going to make duels in private games only, then fuck it and give me hostility back. Why not go all the way haha. Your theory is flawed like hell. If you are aiming to separate the community, then may as well add the function I talked about before where you search for pvp open games or not.

Well first off, ill join public games only if noone else is on so I can get the added experience, I will not play with randoms however. Ill just pass them up and kill everything in their game.

Secondly, if I was to ever play with someone in a public game and they want to duel me, or I want to test out their build I can't. Because apparently it is correct design to force us to make 3 games to do one action. If you are going to make duels in private games only, then fuck it and give me hostility back. Why not go all the way haha. Your theory is flawed like hell. If you are aiming to separate the community, then may as well add the function I talked about before where you search for pvp open games or not.

So in a game you don't want to play with other random people and you're talking about how it separates the community? Um that's pretty flawed reasoning. Also considering what's been said about difficulty and end game, running ahead to kill everything will just see you get killed, but whatever.

If you want to test a build or duel someone... then just pvp. Why is that a difficult concept? You want to test a build? Go fight in an arena. Want to see different builds? Fight in an arena. Use the PvP function of the game to actually PvP seems pretty straightforward. Separating game modes does not separate the community.

What you talk about seems easily covered by what is being given. So you have to make a choice to either pvp or pvm, that's not a difficult thing for some.