With my hopes to go fire looking to hopefully come true with the current itemized gear I wanted to start looking at trinkets. So with what I got out of these trinket values a few things come to mind:

-Light of Cosmos is so good.

-The vision of Lei Shen I assumed with 40% crit, a fire mage is more likely to be over 50%+ on fireball to nearing 60% on Pyroblast meaning that the current estimated crit will be climbing down.

-Lei Shen will be amazingly good for Spriest and Warlocks assuming the few tests done on PTR were correct, those classes seemed to have their crit percent snapshot in contrast to Boomkins which did not.

-Wushoolay looks like it will be the powerhouse trinket especially if you can line up the perfect alter at 14 seconds in.

-Breathe of Hydra seems like it could be far more forgiving with a 20 second duration compared to Cha-Ye's but the infrequency of Hydra's proc could also work against it. Assuming Cha will be a fire BiS it has a more frantic style in contrast with Hydra which will be calmer overall, it just seems interesting to see a variance in trinkets like that.

-Trying to lose hit in forming your gear will be important if you want to use Wushoolay which will probably be a pain to manage.

2/14
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Updated Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance with new Crit based RPPM coefficient.

2/17
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Changed Non-RPPM trinket calc, need better way to figure out expected time to proc

"1 in 4 Americans are skeptical on climate change...who gives a shit? That doesn't matter. You don't need other people's opinions on a fact. You may as well have a poll asking: Which number is bigger? 5 or 15? Do Owls exist? Are there hats?"

Might want to read the blue posts that disagree with that
Also if you're going to quote massive posts and make a one line reply, please snip it first >_>

I'm thinking of something different. I was thinking of crit rolling.

"1 in 4 Americans are skeptical on climate change...who gives a shit? That doesn't matter. You don't need other people's opinions on a fact. You may as well have a poll asking: Which number is bigger? 5 or 15? Do Owls exist? Are there hats?"

Pretty much nailed on what I have been trying to say.. You can no longer line your procs and cd's with trinket procs, even at start you might not get a proc, and even worse you might get a proc when you use alter time..

quite true indeed but your chances of proccing a RPPM buff will be 10x or greater at the start, due to the TimeSinceLastChanceToProc being capped at 10sec, so you will see a higher chance of procs upon entering combat.

@elpadrino :
It would have been interesting to compare it with the ICD system but I'm not that surprise by this result.
Jade spirit is 2ppm (~45% uptime) but I have an uptime range from 35% to 55%, depending on fight and other factor.
What I have see : BL give 1 proc (or more), big movement without dps (tayak) will result in a proc at the beginning. A lot of random on normal fight.

I think it's a wish for Blizzard to have it a lot more unpredictable. They want to differentiate on Use and on Proc.

A 2ppm have a average interval of 23s between proc. But it don't means that it can't proc every 10s (refresh) or every 115s (bad luck).

Any reasons why the crit would be snapshotted for warlocks / shadow but not boomkins and mages? Odd behaviour...if true.

Originally Posted by Dominian

Do you have proof because Crit% in the game, World of Warcraft, does not snapshot for any classes. Why would a trinket make a class work 100% different from how the game has for 7 years unless it's a bug. Crit is a dynamic stat, when the buff goes away so does extra %. Haste and SP/Int are snapshot, but maybe you're thinking about the interaction they have with extending their dots?

Crit does snapshot for Warlocks; go play one and you'll see. I can't show you concrete proof that they do or don't because I'm not on PTR with the trinket and I don't have 100% crit. Warlock and Shadow playstyle revolves around getting the most out of your DoT effects, and crit% snapshot is part of the playstyle.

The reason why it doesn't apply to Boomkins or Mages is because of the effect it would have. Fire you could guarantee Combustion crits on-application and with the trinket could gain a maximum-strength Combustion into a guaranteed, full-crit Combustion. This would be OP.
Boomkins don't get affected due to the interaction DoT crits have with Starsurge. Having instant-cast Starsurge nearly always up would be a bit broken, much like Fire with constantly-critting Combust, no?

Could you explain why Balance Druid dots function differently with respect to Crit than every other class' dots? Currently Crit updates dynamically for Balance Druids whereas other classes get snapshot values.

Good question. We decided to dig into all of the dots and found they worked pretty inconsistently. (Consistency isn't always critical because it does lead to a certain amount of homogeneity, but too little consistency can just be confusing too.) We made a pass at all of the class dots and made them snapshot crit chance. This will have implications in any simulations out there.

However, this has some implications on the Unerring Vision of Lei Shen trinket. We’re tentatively fine with the idea of you seeing that proc go off, and reapplying DoTs which crit for their whole duration, in most cases. There’s a couple cases where those periodic crits cause other effects, which end up being very powerful. For example, a Balance Druid can now apply Moonfire and Sunfire, and pretty much chain instant Starsurges for 15 sec, many of which are extending that Moonfire and Sunfire, probably out to 20-25 sec. That’s extremely strong, but we’re going to try leaving it alone for now.

The one which is simply too strong to leave is for Shadow. For Shadow having Unerring Vision and the PvE set bonuses would mean that every SW:P tick guaranteed crits, so spawns a Shadowy Apparition, which has a 65% chance of extending SW:P and VT. And the VT ticks have a 10% chance of spawning a Shadowy Apparition as well. And both can trigger a mastery tick, both of which can also spawn another Shadowy Apparition. The net result is that the feedback loop is so strong that in attainable gear, it’s net positive, resulting in SW:P and VT lasting forever (or at least until you get very unlucky and get a long string of failed procs, which will probably take several minutes to happen).

Since 100% crit SW:P and VT that never need to be refreshed is a wee bit too strong, we’re building in a failsafe. We’re fine with you getting a normal SW:P/VT duration of all crits, but not forever. When Shadowy Apparition extends SW:P and VT, and that DoT has already lasted longer than its normal duration, it will recalculate its crit chance. The result should be that the trinket procs, you reapply SW:P/VT, and get 18/15 sec of crits, then they drop to your normal crit chance.

This seems way more likely considering their way of doing things lately

you mean like fixing broken aspects of the game right? correcting their errors? dare i say... attempting to balance?

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 12:17 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Serene

They'll probably nerf once they realise how silly Fire will be with Lei Shen. *shrug*

not only do i not believe that fire will be silly with the trinket... i don't even think it will be our one of our two BiS trinkets. the int procs are worth about 4% crit each after critical mass, and considering how high a fire mage's critical strike chance will be before any procs (over 50% cm)... i have to question how powerful it is to guarentee 2 spell crits, which even before the proc, are more likely to crit than not . not to mention the proc is only 4 seconds long, and all anyone can seem to talk about is lining up a combustion, which would ideally require a large ignite that has been built by a decent chain of pyroblast procs, within a 4 second proc that is nearly completely unpredictable!

edit: not to mention that you'd have to pass up a ~10k spell power and ~4.5% crit proc for 4 seconds of 100% crit...

not only do i not believe that fire will be silly with the trinket... i don't even think it will be our one of our two BiS trinkets. the int procs are worth about 4% crit each after critical mass, and considering how high a fire mage's critical strike chance will be before any procs (over 50% cm)... i have to question how powerful it is to guarentee 2 spell crits, which even before the proc, are more likely to crit than not . not to mention the proc is only 4 seconds long, and all anyone can seem to talk about is lining up a combustion, which would ideally require a large ignite that has been built by a decent chain of pyroblast procs, within a 4 second proc that is nearly completely unpredictable!

edit: not to mention that you'd have to pass up a ~10k spell power and ~4.5% crit proc for 4 seconds of 100% crit...

I'd say it depends how lucky you are. If you can manage to get a Combustion during the 100% procc, it's going to do some sick damage.

not only do i not believe that fire will be silly with the trinket... i don't even think it will be our one of our two BiS trinkets. the int procs are worth about 4% crit each after critical mass, and considering how high a fire mage's critical strike chance will be before any procs (over 50% cm)... i have to question how powerful it is to guarentee 2 spell crits, which even before the proc, are more likely to crit than not . not to mention the proc is only 4 seconds long, and all anyone can seem to talk about is lining up a combustion, which would ideally require a large ignite that has been built by a decent chain of pyroblast procs, within a 4 second proc that is nearly completely unpredictable!

edit: not to mention that you'd have to pass up a ~10k spell power and ~4.5% crit proc for 4 seconds of 100% crit...

First and foremost; taking Lei Shen opens up the possibility of maximum strength Combustions more often; even if they aren't guaranteed to crit (ie you Combust after the 4 seconds is over). Ignite tracks over 4 seconds and ~4GCDs of instant-cast Pyros, all guaranteed to crit is nothing to laugh at, especially when each of these will probably be critting near-400K in 5.2 gear.

The reality of gaining a maximum Combust at the moment is something like 15% or something with current crit levels. I can't be bothered to do the exact Maths on it and the figure might actually be lower. Regardless of this, changing that figure so it becomes more likely only adds to Fire's strengths.

I'm aware that Fire Mages stack crit and thus the buff gives diminished return, but it's still nothing to trifle at. Especially when you consider that; on pull at least, you can Alter Time it. Change that 4s into an 8s and suddenly your have a lot more possibilities. You can guarantee a maximum Combust which, in its current state, is then guaranteed to crit for the duration. Not sure ~ how many ticks that'll be over the 20s duration, but if we shoot for the next haste cap in 5.2 of 5036, we guarantee 24 (assuming Spell Haste buffed) and under BL/TW we get 31.

If we assume each Pyro! crits for ~400K, each Fireball crits for ~180K in 5.2 gear and assume a Mastery of ~18%

Fireball Hardcast into Pyro!, Pyro!, Pyro!, Pyro!

180K + 400K = 580K; 104.4K Ignite
400K = 72K additional Ignite

This gives an Ignite of 392.4K

Combust that Ignite; Combust is sticking for 196.2K

You apply Combust before the buff wears off - it benefits from crit% snapshot (we assume); deals *2.03 per tick; dealing 398.286 damage per tick.

My numbers look awfully high, but I'm fairly certain that my maths is correct. Could adjust for slightly lower Mastery values; but you understand the point.

Being able to guarantee this on-pull is ridiculous. The fact that it could easily line up with CDs later in the fight (RealPPM model instead of ICD) as well just makes it more ridiculous, imo.

Yes, it's one situation during a whole fight, but when you add in other crits and so forth, really. I'm not even including any potential cleave fights or anything like that.

I could well be wrong - the other trinkets might prove better; but if they do, the sheer strength of this one and its interaction with Fire means that if the others are stronger, reality is Fire will probably receive some nerfs due to ridiculous damage. We'll have to see in 5.2, I guess.

if you could somehow prevent the ignite from ticking as you were casting all of these pyroblasts, then the ignite would sum up to 392.2k

and the value of the ignite TICK, not the total damage in the ignite pool, so sum of the contributions from our mastery would really be halved for two ticks of ignite, and then halved again for the combustion tick value.

20% mastery: pyro crits for 500k. 100k is added to ignite pool, and then halved for two ticks of 50k each. to use combustion on a 50k ignite would yield a 25k combustion tick.

been at work all day and night, and am now far too tired to actually start working on the math myself.

First and foremost; taking Lei Shen opens up the possibility of maximum strength Combustions more often; even if they aren't guaranteed to crit (ie you Combust after the 4 seconds is over). Ignite tracks over 4 seconds and ~4GCDs of instant-cast Pyros, all guaranteed to crit is nothing to laugh at, especially when each of these will probably be critting near-400K in 5.2 gear.

The reality of gaining a maximum Combust at the moment is something like 15% or something with current crit levels. I can't be bothered to do the exact Maths on it and the figure might actually be lower. Regardless of this, changing that figure so it becomes more likely only adds to Fire's strengths.

I'm aware that Fire Mages stack crit and thus the buff gives diminished return, but it's still nothing to trifle at. Especially when you consider that; on pull at least, you can Alter Time it. Change that 4s into an 8s and suddenly your have a lot more possibilities. You can guarantee a maximum Combust which, in its current state, is then guaranteed to crit for the duration. Not sure ~ how many ticks that'll be over the 20s duration, but if we shoot for the next haste cap in 5.2 of 5036, we guarantee 24 (assuming Spell Haste buffed) and under BL/TW we get 31.

If we assume each Pyro! crits for ~400K, each Fireball crits for ~180K in 5.2 gear and assume a Mastery of ~18%

Fireball Hardcast into Pyro!, Pyro!, Pyro!, Pyro!

180K + 400K = 580K; 104.4K Ignite
400K = 72K additional Ignite

This gives an Ignite of 392.4K

Combust that Ignite; Combust is sticking for 196.2K

You apply Combust before the buff wears off - it benefits from crit% snapshot (we assume); deals *2.03 per tick; dealing 398.286 damage per tick.

My numbers look awfully high, but I'm fairly certain that my maths is correct. Could adjust for slightly lower Mastery values; but you understand the point.

Being able to guarantee this on-pull is ridiculous. The fact that it could easily line up with CDs later in the fight (RealPPM model instead of ICD) as well just makes it more ridiculous, imo.

Yes, it's one situation during a whole fight, but when you add in other crits and so forth, really. I'm not even including any potential cleave fights or anything like that.

I could well be wrong - the other trinkets might prove better; but if they do, the sheer strength of this one and its interaction with Fire means that if the others are stronger, reality is Fire will probably receive some nerfs due to ridiculous damage. We'll have to see in 5.2, I guess.

Might wanna land from your fantasy world, you do realise that you suggested that ignite would TICK for 396k, do you even realise what that needs? You might wanna check the mechanics on how combustion and ignite actually work , But sure lets play ball with this for a while.. The are few problems with your scenario and those are:

1: you need to be camping for the proc, and as its a RPPM proc, you have no way to really know when it is going to proc

2: for your scenario to be anywhere near possible, you would need to have Hot Streak allready and fish for Heating up, so you get that 4th Pyroblast!. Plus no cd's used, which leads back to 1, which means you're loosing dps all the time you are not using your cd's.

3: You will with quite high possibility have no or near to none procs from initial pull left when you finally proc it on average, and Skull banner has prolly died allready

4: Fire with full BiS t15 is going to have over 60% crit with Pyroblast.. and over 65% with pyro after alter time expires, so the gain from the trinket in your scenario wouldn't be so much different

Hmm. Did indeed seem a little high. Even if we allow Ignite to tick it would only lose the initial FB+Pyro after 4 seconds, would it not?

after some quick scribbling in my notebook... the chances of this trinket proccing when we need it to proc, especially in this scenario and even to simply make it worthwhile, are far far less than simply RNGing 3 crits in a row...

you'd be losing 1-2 ticks of the ignite pool easily... and if you tried to get 3 pyroblasts and use combustion in a 4 second window, you absolutely need to be GCD capped as well. we lead into this fb/p!/p!/p! with a 1.5sec fireball and a 1.0sec gcd after the pyro. so any ignite we already had going into it is half way gone. then over the course of the next 3 seconds for the 3x pyroblast!, we will of course lose another tick of ignite during that window, possibly even 2 depending on the actual timing of impact/ticks/whatever... and then we want to alter time to get another 4 seconds of the proc? well that is only if it proc'd right before you initially started the 3x pyroblast! while you were casting that fireball.

now i know fire is the creme de la creme of RNG, but honestly you gotta be kidding me here...

Might wanna land from your fantasy world, you do realise that you suggested that ignite would TICK for 396k, do you even realise what that needs? You might wanna check the mechanics on how combustion and ignite actually work , But sure lets play ball with this for a while.. The are few problems with your scenario and those are:

1: you need to be camping for the proc, and as its a RPPM proc, you have no way to really know when it is going to proc

2: for your scenario to be anywhere near possible, you would need to have Hot Streak allready and fish for Heating up, so you get that 4th Pyroblast!. Plus no cd's used, which leads back to 1, which means you're loosing dps all the time you are not using your cd's.

3: You will with quite high possibility have no or near to none procs from initial pull left when you finally proc it on average, and Skull banner has prolly died allready

4: Fire with full BiS t15 is going to have over 60% crit with Pyroblast.. and over 65% with pyro after alter time expires, so the gain from the trinket in your scenario wouldn't be so much different

I'm not in a "fantasy" world; I never maintained my maths was correct, and in my earlier post accepted could easily be wrong. Feel free to re-do it with the correct maths; still fairly sure you'll find the numbers ridiculous.

But, hey, let's address the issues you raised.

1. True; but on-pull, given enough time since last proc it's likely to proc.
2. True.
3. You're basing this off what? The fact it's RPPM only? Not how it works.
4. I acknowledged that the benefit is diminished as gear increases.