Nogale:Dogs, absolutely. Cats - "what is this 'guilt' of which you speak?"

Pretty much. Cats will do something crazy, evil or weird (or all three) and then go back to silently plotting your murder (which is what I believe cats spend most of their time doing; consider humanity lucky that cats don't have thumbs).

Dwight_Yeast:Nogale: Dogs, absolutely. Cats - "what is this 'guilt' of which you speak?"

Pretty much. Cats will do something crazy, evil or weird (or all three) and then go back to silently plotting your murder (which is what I believe cats spend most of their time doing; consider humanity lucky that cats don't have thumbs).

Well, cats were fundamental to building civilization - but they aren't like dogs. If you pick up an abandoned puppy, and raise him, feed him, and love him, he will conclude that you are a god.Do the same thing for a kitten, and he will conclude that he is a god.

Guilt is a fundamental part of empathy. There can't really be any doubt that dogs empathize with one another and with members of their social group. Ergo, they feel guilt when committing acts they would not like reciprocated.

jso2897:Dwight_Yeast: Nogale: Dogs, absolutely. Cats - "what is this 'guilt' of which you speak?"

Pretty much. Cats will do something crazy, evil or weird (or all three) and then go back to silently plotting your murder (which is what I believe cats spend most of their time doing; consider humanity lucky that cats don't have thumbs).

Well, cats were fundamental to building civilization - but they aren't like dogs. If you pick up an abandoned puppy, and raise him, feed him, and love him, he will conclude that you are a god.Do the same thing for a kitten, and he will conclude that he is a god.

Not true. Our cats know when they misbehave: they slink with their tails down when they are caught doing something they shouldn't.

A human is more likely to feel guilt than a cat would in my opinion. Cats tend to be very self centered while dogs (and humans) are more likely to show empathy towards others. Guilt is simply a way of showing that empathy.

On this very topic I wrote about my own lug of love, Simba (an 80 pound St. Bernard/Yellow Lab mix), just over a year ago. I pulled this from FB.

I call this "When a Dog is Like a Toddler":

So I just walked in the door after a long day of doing inventory at work and outdoor activities sandwiched in between them, and Simba isn't waiting for me at the door when I walk in-as I usually expect. He's 5 feet away, and giving me a look of "Oh!?! You're home!! Ummmm.... Hi! Wasn't expecting you!"He stares at me in anticipation for a few moments until I tell him to come to me and say "Hi" (we have a ritual where he sits and shakes my hand and gives me a kiss). While I'm petting him he's smacking his lips like he just ran over from his bowl, and I'm wondering what he's been up to. After I give him my greeting pets, I walk over to where he was standing and discover a cracker package torn open and devoured on the floor. Simba starts to walk away sloooowly down the hallway but I stop him and tell him in a stern voice "Simba!! BAD BOY. You come here, NOW!" He saunters over slowly, head bowed in shame, owning up to his obvious shenanigans and I tell him to go to his kennel for punishment. He growled low at me a tiny bit and barked once when I locked him in there, but he knows what he's in there for. Damn dog, so stupid and so damn smart at the same time!!

If you pick up an abandoned puppy, and raise him, feed him, and love him, he will conclude that you are a god.Do the same thing for a kitten, and he will conclude that he is a god.

That's what's wrong with my dog: he's a cat born into the wrong damn body.

On the other hand your description of dogs fits the ex's cat pretty well. But only for her: for me he's like "Oh it's you. When is She coming home?"

It's a generalization, and flawed, as such. Animals display unique individual character, just like people do.And it's not that our cats don't care when they upset us. They are our friends, and they are fond of us. It distresses them when we get mad at them. They just don't take any responsibility in the matter.

jso2897:It's a generalization, and flawed, as such. Animals display unique individual character, just like people do.

Our old dog would get very, very guilty about things she did wrong, even minor things that we didn't care about. The once younger and now only dog, however, has absolutely no sense of shame whatsoever. The contrast was really notable when they did something bad together- one would greet you at the door looking incredibly guilty, and the other would just be bouncing around, happy as ever. She's a sweet dog in most ways, but guilt is not in her repertoire.

The cat has absolutely no conception of the emotion either, but she doesn't do much to feel guilty about.

Both dogs will CRY and sulk when I yell at them, and they do know what behavior they're in trouble for.

You misunderstand guilt for their desire to retain pack membership. Pack membership = life.

How is that different from guilt among humans? For us guilt indicates the threat of separation from the "pack," and penitence reinforces the threatened bond. "Oh please forgive, please don't throw me out!"

And it's not that our cats don't care when they upset us. They are our friends, and they are fond of us. It distresses them when we get mad at them. They just don't take any responsibility in the matter.

So they'd say we should stop choosing to be upset? Especially when there are more important things to do, like skritch them just so. I get it.

Both dogs will CRY and sulk when I yell at them, and they do know what behavior they're in trouble for.

You misunderstand guilt for their desire to retain pack membership. Pack membership = life.

How is that different from guilt among humans? For us guilt indicates the threat of separation from the "pack," and penitence reinforces the threatened bond. "Oh please forgive, please don't throw me out!"

Would you like living all by yourself in the middle of Death Valley?

I carry a lot of guilt around, and none of it affects my pack membership.