2007-05-26T11:21:00ZPunBBhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/topic/1431/the-whales-are-going-to-lose/I do not think I deserved the duh. You can still make a point without using words like that.

I will post on the other thread later when I get the time to reply properly.

]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/982/2007-05-26T11:21:00Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36866/#p368661st, you deservied that duh. Sorry if it offended you.2nd, yes, I'm going to have to start a form to answer questions and debate on evolution, natural selection, global warming, and anything else that lets me "tweak" people. Let the logical fallices and flaming begin!]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/1021/2007-05-26T07:15:29Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36863/#p36863Force Master R wrote:

1. Well, yeah we make mistakes, we are only human. But, as humans we are sart enough to correct our mistakes. It all comes down to determining what is a mistake and what is simply a disagreement. The Chenobel Nucular incedent? Mistake. Greenpeace running agound on ta reef? Mistake. Us eating hambugars? Disagreement. Global Warming? That is yet to be seen which it is. And this is again a whole new subject, and best settled on a different form.

Well we are making a huge mistake with the environment (which includes the whales as if they go the impact on the environment would be huge) but there seems to be nothing actually being done to correct what is happening. I do not see why we cannot discuss all things on this thread as well. Discussions inevitably move in different directions during its course, it does not mean that they cannot be discussed as well.

Force Master R wrote:

2. Duh. That's how you get ahead. Think about it. A single ant isn't much of a threat, but the strength of a colony is enough to make even an elephant run. A cobra doesn't use's poison to make it a much greater threat than it would be with out it. We, while not having strength, poison, armour, wings, gills or claws, make it to the top by using our wits to give us the edge. Man hasn't always had guns, but even then we were still the top dog. By an evolutionary perspective, we deserve our spot because of our inteligence. If the other animals want to get ahead, they need to work smarter, not harder.

Thank you for DuhÃ¢Â€Â™ing at me, so nice of you. I am fully aware of that we have used and abused things and that is how we have got ahead. You are right about our intelligence. The human brain has evolved in away that has meant that we have been able to adapt things and use things to our advantage to add strength to us and protect us more. There has to be a point though where there needs to be a balance between getting ahead and going to far. Going to far could end up with our destruction.

I do not think that before man used guns, armour etc we were at the top. We would have been one of the top predators, but I imagine that we still would have had to be more careful than what we can be now. Yes we do deserve our now claimed spot at the top but with that comes a responsibility (especially as of how we got there) I also think that the other animals do get ahead but in their own way and without affecting us.

Though if you want we could start up another thread where we can discuss all things that are not related to whales. I like a good debate, as it is always good seeing different points of view (especially when about emotional subjects such as what has been discussed in this thread)

1.You can belive that we've screwed up, I'm perfectly happy with the way the world is. Except for there being no more unicorns. I heard they were tasty.

2. Well, it sure has putus on top of the food chain and in the lead of the evolutionary chain, if you belive in that kind of stuff.

1, I also believe that we have screwed up on many occasions and will continue to screw up on many occasions. We are not living in harmony with the environment and are taking much more than we are putting back. If we carry on like what we are now we will destroy all that we enjoy. It might be nice at the moment but it will not be long before it gets very ugly.

2, I do understand what you are saying but I think that the only reason that we are as successful as we are is because of the things that we use (though from my point of view we have gone too far and it has led toward a slightly arrogant attitude towards other animalsÃ¢Â€Â¦which lets not forget it we are) there are plenty of top predators that would easily kill us if we are with out the things that we rely on to protect us and increase our attack abilities. We might have made ourselves the top of the chain but I do not believe that we actually belong there.

1. Well, yeah we make mistakes, we are only human. But, as humans we are sart enough to correct our mistakes. It all comes down to determining what is a mistake and what is simply a disagreement. The Chenobel Nucular incedent? Mistake. Greenpeace running agound on ta reef? Mistake. Us eating hambugars? Disagreement. Global Warming? That is yet to be seen which it is. And this is again a whole new subject, and best settled on a different form.

2. Duh. That's how you get ahead. Think about it. A single ant isn't much of a threat, but the strength of a colony is enough to make even an elephant run. A cobra doesn't use's poison to make it a much greater threat than it would be with out it. We, while not having strength, poison, armour, wings, gills or claws, make it to the top by using our wits to give us the edge. Man hasn't always had guns, but even then we were still the top dog. By an evolutionary perspective, we deserve our spot because of our inteligence. If the other animals want to get ahead, they need to work smarter, not harder.

1.You can belive that we've screwed up, I'm perfectly happy with the way the world is. Except for there being no more unicorns. I heard they were tasty.

2. Well, it sure has putus on top of the food chain and in the lead of the evolutionary chain, if you belive in that kind of stuff.

1, I also believe that we have screwed up on many occasions and will continue to screw up on many occasions. We are not living in harmony with the environment and are taking much more than we are putting back. If we carry on like what we are now we will destroy all that we enjoy. It might be nice at the moment but it will not be long before it gets very ugly.

2, I do understand what you are saying but I think that the only reason that we are as successful as we are is because of the things that we use (though from my point of view we have gone too far and it has led toward a slightly arrogant attitude towards other animalsÃ¢Â€Â¦which lets not forget it we are) there are plenty of top predators that would easily kill us if we are with out the things that we rely on to protect us and increase our attack abilities. We might have made ourselves the top of the chain but I do not believe that we actually belong there.

Well I'm very glad that this post was much more informative and less threatening. 1. I don't self Loathe, "Damn Us" was just a way of saying we've screwed up, which in undeniably true.

2. While I see what you're saying, it is not exactly "Adapting." Adapting would be for us to change for our surroundings. What you are describing is human desire NOT to adapt. We decided to be stubborn and refuse adaptation (Which I am not saying is a bad thing, just completely different)

3. I really don't think theres much more to say

4. I just can't believe that the Earth could be less than a few million years old. 10,000 would mean that humans were on Earth for like 50% of its existence... so where do the Dinosaurs and the beings before them fit in? After all that I've read and from past science classes, my guess is a little less than a billion.

1.You can belive that we've screwed up, I'm perfectly happy with the way the world is. Except for there being no more unicorns. I heard they were tasty.

2. Well, it sure has putus on top of the food chain and in the lead of the evolutionary chain, if you belive in that kind of stuff.

3. Yeah, there really isn't.

4. This is a completely diffrent topic. If you want to talk about this topic, it is best to probably do it on another form.

]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/1021/2007-05-24T01:40:35Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36744/#p36744Well I'm very glad that this post was much more informative and less threatening. 1. I don't self Loathe, "Damn Us" was just a way of saying we've screwed up, which in undeniably true.

2. While I see what you're saying, it is not exactly "Adapting." Adapting would be for us to change for our surroundings. What you are describing is human desire NOT to adapt. We decided to be stubborn and refuse adaptation (Which I am not saying is a bad thing, just completely different)

3. I really don't think theres much more to say

4. I just can't believe that the Earth could be less than a few million years old. 10,000 would mean that humans were on Earth for like 50% of its existence... so where do the Dinosaurs and the beings before them fit in? After all that I've read and from past science classes, my guess is a little less than a billion.

First I would like to say that anyone who says "So in conclution, go damn yourself" obviously doesn't have a sense for debate. Just because your idea clashes with mine doesn't mean I'm wrong.

The "So in conclution, go damn yourself" was in reference to your "Damn us" comment. I was saying to keep your self loathing to yourself.

Fetterthanyou wrote:

As for the other things you said:"If we are smart, and evolution is correct, we will alter the enviroment so as to best suit our needs for survival"

No... Actually that is not evolution. Evolution is Adapt to your surrounding to survive. Not change your surroundings to survive. Darwin used birds with different beaks to prove evolution. In each area birds had different beaks as they needed to get to whatever food was there. Long beaks for reaching through holes or strong beaks for breaking nuts.

Adaptation takes many forms. Some birds migrate to climates that fill their needs. I'm positive that would be considerd as adaptation by evolutionary standerds. So, altering the enviroment to suit your needs is simply the ultimate form of adaptation. Side effects of migraton: Sore wings (or feet, or fins, depening on species), possibility of getting lost or dieing on the trip, customs, unshakable "migrant" label, boader wars, and large travel expenses. Side effects of enviroment alteration: Extinction of native species, unfavorable atmospheric conditions, waste accumilation, possible global destruction, and greenpeace. I'm not here to debunk evolution, the scientests themselves have done that for me and I have no wish to open the can of worms that is the "Creation vs. Evolution" debate. I'm just stating how natural selection or "survival of the fittest" works. If you can't adapte fast enough, you die, along with the rest of your species. Or, as i like to say, "If you can't stand the mutations, then get out of the gene pool"

Fetterthanyou wrote:

"**** happens, so save the whales". I really don't see how my post can be summed up that way... I realize that DevilGirl already posted on the subject so I shortened it not to repeat her. I was trying to state that these people are not going to just say "Well Whaling is gone i'll go die now." People have the instinct to survive. I agree that things should be put in place to help them, but not everyone can be helped.

If you were simply shortening her post, then sorry, but you left out the part of helping those who make their living by whaling. Yes, there will be those who refuse help, and those that will resist change untill it is forced upon them, but you can change how the change hapens. It can make the difference between how the Brits ended slavery and how we ended slavery. Civil War over whaling? Possibly.

Fetterthanyou wrote:

Ps. It has not been PROVED that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. It has not yet been accepted as the theory for which science bases itself.

Yes, this is true, but it can also be proved that the world isn't "Billions and Billions" of years old. The two camps have been at it for years. I personaly think that the earth is over ten thousand years old. Why? Because while the biblical timeline points out to ten thousand years, that the time from when man was created. The earth was around before their was light, so it's possible that the earth is older and younger than both camps think.

So sorry that I didn't put my view in such a bad way in my Grammer, it's just so sad that the Whales have to be slaughtered for what ?? in Aussie our Old Whaling Station is doing great business im WhaleWatching and their Musuem..and they are making a lot of MoneyBy the way Thyacine !! I'm a Girl,,and I admitt I was a bit upset with your comment as I'm a self-taughteducated,,as my family didn't beleive in school too many Kids,,but I was able to pass my Exams and become a Nurse ,,raised Three Boys and I;m proud of what I have done with my life,,even taught myself late in lifewhen I got my Grandson old Computer,,never typed before it was another stepstone for meAs for the Whale Vomit comment it was a bit of Humour ,,to ease the worry about them been Hunted so there's another one Land Rights for Gay Whales bats

]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/441/2007-05-19T00:13:36Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36493/#p36493So sorry that I didn't put my view in such a bad way in my Grammer, it's just so sad that the Whales have to be slaughtered for what ?? in Aussie our Old Whaling Station is doing great business im WhaleWatching and their Musuem..and they are making a lot of MoneyBy the way Thyacine !! I'm a Girl,,and I admitt I was a bit upset with your comment as I'm a self-taughteducated,,as my family didn't beleive in school too many Kids,,but I was able to pass my Exams and become a Nurse ,,raised Three Boys and I;m proud of what I have done with my life,,even taught myself late in lifewhen I got my Grandson old Computer,,never typed before it was another stepstone for meAs for the Whale Vomit comment it was a bit of Humour ,,to ease the worry about them been Hunted so there's another one Land Rights for Gay Whales bats]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/79/2007-05-18T22:42:04Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36489/#p36489Alo Fett wrote:

"Another thing about the whales evolving. It takes thousands, even millions of years to evolve, so how can they evolve anything if we kill them off faster than they can breed?"

The earth is only 10,000 years old or less this has been proven just recently. so if they could evolve they would have to do it way way faster then.

"I don't see that as "Survival of the fittest," I see that as mindless descruction."

It's not that you WOULD kill everything it's that it would be ok because what ever makes me go to and stay at the top is ok in the "Survival of the Fittest" theory.( if you still think this dosn't make much sence then go and read the "Survival of the Fittest theory" again.)p.s. we are both big science geeks and my bro is going to get a degree in ether archaeology or history. So "Now you know and knowing is half the battle!"-GIjoe cartoon

Human history, at least what's recorded, is more likely 10,000 years old, not Earth History. The Earth itself is more than 4 billion years old, hence why I said Evolution takes quite some time. Also, unless a miracle happens, Evolution can't be rushed.

"The Survival of the Fittest" makes sense, I just don't have the same view as you do. Mine's closer to Fetterthanyou's. It was just the way you worded it that got me confused, talking about evolving toxic blubber and all. Sorry about that.

Oh, and kudos for quoting G.I Joe.

]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/441/2007-05-18T21:21:24Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36484/#p36484First I would like to say that anyone who says "So in conclution, go damn yourself" obviously doesn't have a sense for debate. Just because your idea clashes with mine doesn't mean I'm wrong.

As for the other things you said:"If we are smart, and evolution is correct, we will alter the enviroment so as to best suit our needs for survival"

No... Actually that is not evolution. Evolution is Adapt to your surrounding to survive. Not change your surroundings to survive. Darwin used birds with different beaks to prove evolution. In each area birds had different beaks as they needed to get to whatever food was there. Long beaks for reaching through holes or strong beaks for breaking nuts.

"**** happens, so save the whales". I really don't see how my post can be summed up that way... I realize that DevilGirl already posted on the subject so I shortened it not to repeat her. I was trying to state that these people are not going to just say "Well Whaling is gone i'll go die now." People have the instinct to survive. I agree that things should be put in place to help them, but not everyone can be helped.

Ps. It has not been PROVED that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. It has not yet been accepted as the theory for which science bases itself.

]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/236/2007-05-18T18:44:54Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36481/#p36481I'm not saying that evolution says we should kill the whales. I'm just saying that it says that if we do kill the whales than they simply wern't evolved enough to survive. And if evolution is correct, why should we give other species a chance to catch up with us? If we wish to survive, we should only encourage the survival of species that are benificial to us. Now this is NOT my point of view. I think that man should watch out for the animals, which includes the whales. I'm just explaining how evolutionary thinking works when taken to task.]]>http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/user/1021/2007-05-18T16:56:24Zhttp://www.bobafettfanclub.com/boards/post/36479/#p36479Yeah...Really...Personally, In my professional, normal, unprofessional opinion, I think evolution is a load of B.S.

(Would you Like me to un-abbreviate that?) And also, what is the point of this topic?