I'm trying to watch this under the premise of not comparing it to Band of Brothers. I'm having a tough time with that, though. I know that the character development is moving slower than it did in BoB because BoB started at Toccoa, while we started The Pacific right in the heat of battle for the most part. That and you had to get to know quite a few more characters in Band of Brothers.

Band of Brothers did seem to get better the more you watched it and I fully expect The Pacific to be the same way. Granted, the Pacific's only going to get better now because we have the ridiculously fierce action of Okinawa on the horizon.

But I agree with you guys on knowing far more about the European theater. When I was at Akron, the requirements were 9 US credits, 9 European and 9 non-Western/comparative. I used a History of Broadcasting class as a carryover for my history major and my other two non-Western were Modern East Asia and History of Canada. How History of Canada was considered non-Western was staggering. Soviet Russia Since 1801 was European. But my other two European History classes were Nazi Germany and World Wars and Depression 1914-1945.

I wanted to take Japan and the Pacific War, but nobody was qualified to teach it. I took a World Civ Japan class and loved it. Japanese history is very interesting with the shogunates and their desire to be viewed as a world power. We had to cover so much shit in an hour and 40 minutes a week, that we had to gloss over parts of WWII since it was just a 2 credit hour class.

I'm liking The Pacific a lot. I just have to try real hard not to compare it to Band of Brothers because that's one of the best series I have ever seen.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

SkatingTripods wrote:I'm liking The Pacific a lot. I just have to try real hard not to compare it to Band of Brothers because that's one of the best series I have ever seen.

Adam, try this...

Compare them to you winning a 3 team parlay and a 6-1 future...

They're both different yet satisfying

People around here must think I'm some kind of degenerate gambler.

I was reading on another sports message board where most of the people there are having a hard time not comparing the two. I guess it's just normal to do that, given all the similarities. Either way, like I said, I'm still enjoying The Pacific.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I was reading on another sports message board where most of the people there are having a hard time not comparing the two. I guess it's just normal to do that, given all the similarities. Either way, like I said, I'm still enjoying The Pacific.

I don't see anything "wrong" with comparing, unless you're the type to say "this isn't exactly like Band of Brothers, so it sucks"...which you obviously are not doing.

Beyond doubt, Band of Brothers was the Greatest. Miniseries. Ever.

But this has the potential of being just as good...but still being totally unique. So nothing wrong with comparing and contrasting. So far, I'm finding it a perfect mix of styles we've seen before (the intense battle sequences, the homage and genuine respect the writers are showing the soldiers, etc), and a different way of viewing this theater of war (tighter focus on three main characters).

Thin Red Lne tried to broach what seems to be the main goal of the series. The personal mental effects of combat, esp in the Pacific.

I know that wasn't a real popular war movie but I for one loved it. The battle to get up that hill and the ensuing grenade fight were as good as it gets when it comes to combat re-enactment but, it was mostly about trying to put you into their heads

Whats notable about The Pacific is that we've yet to see any real brutality and I hope they don't sugar coat the hate and viciousness our guys were forced to commit

Episode 4 seems to be a "just when you thought it couldn't get any worse," welcome to monsoon season in the South Pacific jungle

I for one can relate to that part...everything else, not so much

One thing I am sure of when it comes to WWII. I believe America to be full of these types of men and that any generation of Americans would have risen to the occasion, including many of you here.

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:One thing I am sure of when it comes to WWII. I believe America to be full of these types of men and that any generation of Americans would have risen to the occasion, including many of you here.

Deep down I agree with you on that FMB. It's hard to see sometimes but I think behind a common rallying point you're dead-nuts on.

Just wish that less than life or death issues were that rallying point sometimes.

Sitting alone in darkness of my den in these early morning hours, I can't quite get why this episode struck such a chord in me. Maybe it's the idea that Leckie had to give up love and the family he always wanted, only to be shipped out to face more horrors of war. Maybe it's Basilone and what appears to be the feeling of guilt for leaving his friends behind.

A really good episode and a great way to get into who these guys where off the battlefield.

My Grandfather fought in Okinawa he was a Staff Sargent. When he came back from his tour he had brought home a Thompson/Katana/Japanese flag with bullet holes. Nobody in my family could get him to talk about what it was like leading troops (since he was a Sargent you lead a group) on the battlefield. His best friend died the day after the war was declared officially over b/c a Japanese soldier threw a in grenade his sleeping bunker or fox hole. My other Grandfather was a navy man who most likely didn't see much action. The craziest thing was my grandfather who served as a staff Sargent retained his combat skills. I noticed this when he slipped at our boat dock and was hanging on to the rope that connects the boat to the dock horizontally (the bowline) he crawled/climbed it like a 'marine' and this was in his 70's. Sorry veered a little off-topic but, just found it interesting.

From the marines never knowing where they're gonna be fighting next to seeing how insane the Japanese seem to be in their ways of combat to needing "RnR" in the hospital...

They are always on-the-edge as are the viewers watching...These battle scenes kinda remind me of the way Spielberg directed Jaws 35 years ago...Nothing happens when you think it will and everything happens when you least expect it...Nice job by the directors so far...

My only problem was how fast we forwarded from '42-'44? Wish this thing was 20 episodes...

I'd really like to see Hanks and Spielberg do the same style show for the Russians. I think it would be awesome to see Stalingrad and some of the other great battles of the Eastern Front. I think their effort gets somewhat ignored by Americans.

Hummm, lets see. Which would I rather hump thru jungle? .30 cal water cooled or Thompson?

"If we get overrun....."...... Uhhhh, excuse me? Overrun? WTF?

Officers suck...esp Dr's and CO's who take Jap pistols from battle hardened troops

... and every grunt will agree wit moi.... the only thing worse than walking point is walking drag. That was a BS move by the CO....made worse by his humiliation of Leckie later on over a health issue... the POS

Another great one. This series is really showing what it was truly like for the men having to go through this hell, and I'm just amazed at how well they are pulling it off.

One thing we've heard for years and years is how when these heroes came back, all they wanted to do was to get on with their lives, and never talk about what had happened, and try to think about it as little as possible.

I guess it was possible then, given the nature of the media back then. No 6 O'Clock news like the men in Vietnam faced. No 24/7 CNN or FoxNews like what is happening now.

Next week should be a nail biter all the way. You've got Leckie as the veteran back in battle and Eugene Sledge's introduction into hell.

not to go off-topic in this thread, but, I just wanted to add, that I do wish that Spielberg/Hanks would team up and do a flick akin to "Saving Private Ryan" with "Pearl Harbor" and the pacific side of WWII. I was very disapointed that a movie with such great potential was twisted into "Titanic with the asian theatre of WWII as a backstory", Michael Bay is a hack and should be banned from making movies.

also, this series has been great thus far, found the previous two episodes going a bit slow, but I believe they are nessecarry to move the plot along, also the Aussie Chick was pretty hot, so it wasn't like they were exactly bad in viewing ;).

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Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Triple-S wrote:not to go off-topic in this thread, but, I just wanted to add, that I do wish that Spielberg/Hanks would team up and do a flick akin to "Saving Private Ryan" with "Pearl Harbor" and the pacific side of WWII. I was very disapointed that a movie with such great potential was twisted into "Titanic with the asian theatre of WWII as a backstory", Michael Bay is a hack and should be banned from making movies.

also, this series has been great thus far, found the previous two episodes going a bit slow, but I believe they are nessecarry to move the plot along, also the Aussie Chick was pretty hot, so it wasn't like they were exactly bad in viewing ;).

I don't think you can or should look at the past two episodes as filler or as a set up to another firefights SSS. Those two episodes show you the actual human result of the firefights and are actually what's important when trying to understand that generation and , like someone just mentioned, their reluctance to even discuss what went on. Their fear, their insecurity and their inability to discuss it or deal with it shaped not just their generation but generations afterward. The kids of those soldiers often couldn't connect with parents who were stoic vets who were aging and the kids became the peace & love crowd with a greater reliance on drugs, etc.

That's way too simplistic in and of itself but you could write a hundered books and movies and series and not go deeply enough on that issue.

And I think the chick in Melbourne was Greek, no? Living in Austrailia but a greek girl.

Said it before...the object here seems to be an attempt to put you in the foxhole and Leckie's head and despite maybe the best efforts ever on film it still can't be done

What I mean is that all the knowledge and film in the world cannot replace the images and feelings ingrained into the recesses of the brain by combat, which has been 'digital' since the beginning of time.

Nobody wants to talk about mangled bodies and guys missing half their skulls.....

That's why war stories are saved for the VFW and AL halls with former comrades in arms....and even then, the conversations will be mostly about the good times vs the bad.

Try as you might...be as knowledgable, concerned and sympathetic as you can but, the relationship with the reality cannot be achieved...juss sayin'.................

Saw a clip with the real Leckie being interviewed....he said he "made private" four times....

LOFL

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

different from BOB so far in that, i thought they would focus on more characters. in BOB they shifted focus kinda from guy to guy every episode, while still keeping Winters and the guy from office space in there to provide their commentary. lately, Pacific has been mostly the pvt. Leckie show. also, if they were getting bombed every night by jap artillery, i wanna kinda see that, just showing it once and saying, "oh these jap bombings every night really suck" doesn't quite do it for me.

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

If you're going to focus on three individuals rather than an entire company, they're doing exactly what they need to do. The distaste toward Basilone knowing that all of them helped in some way, Basilone just had the perfect spot to shoot is being done really well. It's not jealousy. It's that this group knows that it takes a collective effort to get shit done out there.

I am hoping, though, that they relax a little bit on the all-Leckie storylines of his personal problems. I don't want it to become overkill. It's a huge part of the story, I know, and part of this miniseries is based off his two books, but there's other guys who I think they could focus on as well.

But wabo said it best, this thing should be 20 episodes.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

They spent little more than an episode covering a 9 month R&R and 2 episodes covering a 32 day battle.

I'm not seeing much more R&R in the forecast.

Besides, the inner self war of the 'want' to go home and have it all over vs the thirst for battle and blood had to be set up.

Its a conflict they're forcing you to deal with and I for one am admiring the effort.

I'm surprised too, no one has mentioned the strangulation of the wounded Jap and how that particular way of killing him was perceived....the diff between the 'hands on' approach of choking him to death vs just stabbing him with a bayonet...

The pace is just another part of the game....Hurry up and wait, heart pounding anticipation,hours of boredom....all compressed and wrapped inside moments of sheer fucking terror

No other war movie has ever done better imho

Till Sunday night tho if you want to hear some guns and bombs going off turn your speakers up full blast and click this link

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:I'm not seeing much more R&R in the forecast.

I think its safe to say you nailed this prediction.

Ho. Lee. Shit.

Doesn't get much more intense or realistic than that. My lord. I'd say it was edge of your seat drama, but I was pacing. Amazing reenactment. Amazing. And really, Sledge was the perfect kinda guy to have take us through it. Acting from him and Leckie has been off the charts. Not a huge fan of the actor playing Basilone, but the acting from the guys portraying the other two main characters has been off the charts good.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:I'm not seeing much more R&R in the forecast.

I think its safe to say you nailed this prediction.

Ho. Lee. Shit.

Doesn't get much more intense or realistic than that. My lord. I'd say it was edge of your seat drama, but I was pacing. Amazing reenactment. Amazing. And really, Sledge was the perfect kinda guy to have take us through it. Acting from him and Leckie has been off the charts. Not a huge fan of the actor playing Basilone, but the acting from the guys portraying the other two main characters has been off the charts good.

Totally agree. It appears I am one of the few who have enjoyed Leckie and found he has helped drive the show. The kid playing Sledge had a lot of experience as a child actor and he still has that baby face which is perfect for the role he is playing.

My only gripe is that the series isnt longer so we had more time to experience all the battles. I know money is probably the driving force behind that but 5 episodes in and we are already midway through 1944. Would have liked more time to develop the timeline of the forces in the Pacific and explore the utter carnage going on down there. I hope Hanks/Spielberg do another miniseries, this time on Korea. Outside of MASH, its been largely overlooked.

Oh, and Anna Torv was friggin SMOKING tonight.

“Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand.”- Wes Westrum

"The future is like a Japanese game show, we have no idea whats going on." - Tracy Jordan

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In a way that was almost MORE intense with the ship opening up and just seeing the sunshine because you knew what was coming up...If I was a smoker, this woulda been the time I'd be lighting up in my living room...

Let me say I loved this episode!

From Leckie questioning Sledge about God creating the Japs to the "downtime" between battles and what the soldiers did just to eat up days to shittin your pants when a tank is aimed at you...

Loved the talk between Sledge & Sid when he's told that "you can't even imagine" what it's like over there...powerful stuff

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

mitch wrote:That crossing of the airfield might have been the most harrowing 30 minutes I've ever seen on any screen.

Couldn't agree more Mitch...

THE most intense and compelling battle scene I've ever watched...

The screenwriters have done a masterful job at letting us into the psychies of these soldiers...Not to mention seeing the brotherhood that develops more and more each episode from the sharing of the water to Sledge finding out that he wasn't the only one scared out there to the handing out of nicknames was all great viewing...

This episode also might have had the most brutal scene for me so far when the Marines had to hit the freaked out soldier with the spade to shut him up...

mitch wrote:That crossing of the airfield might have been the most harrowing 30 minutes I've ever seen on any screen.

Couldn't agree more Mitch...

THE most intense and compelling battle scene I've ever watched...

The screenwriters have done a masterful job at letting us into the psychies of these soldiers...Not to mention seeing the brotherhood that develops more and more each episode from the sharing of the water to Sledge finding out that he wasn't the only one scared out there to the handing out of nicknames was all great viewing...

This episode also might have had the most brutal scene for me so far when the Marines had to hit the freaked out soldier with the spade to shut him up...

Can't believe there's only 4 more to go

+1

Top notch show.

Now please, Mr. Hanks, Mr. Spielberg please do one from the Russian POV.

Watched a lot of dead eyes, head shots, flamethrowers & dentistry last night to last me awhile...Pitchin' pebbles into a half-skull?!?! Figured by now that I've just about seen everything in movies/tv, but I guess not?

Question for FMBill, was this episode anything like real war? I guess what I'm asking is this when you soldiers wonder if you'll ever stop battling and see home again? Just kinda seemed like our guys sensed that their backs were finally up against the wall and couldn't quite understand the enemies drive? Ex. "Becasue they're Japs"...

At least the "Dookie" scene brought some chuckles in a weird sort of way...

And I liked the scene with Basilone at the driving range with his past visions of what happened to him while he kept hitting until his hands were a mess...

waborat wrote:So, was this the most gruesome night of television ever?

Watched a lot of dead eyes, head shots, flamethrowers & dentistry last night to last me awhile...Pitchin' pebbles into a half-skull?!?! Figured by now that I've just about seen everything in movies/tv, but I guess not?

Question for FMBill, was this episode anything like real war? I guess what I'm asking is this when you soldiers wonder if you'll ever stop battling and see home again? Just kinda seemed like our guys sensed that their backs were finally up against the wall and couldn't quite understand the enemies drive? Ex. "Becasue they're Japs"...

At least the "Dookie" scene brought some chuckles in a weird sort of way...

And I liked the scene with Basilone at the driving range with his past visions of what happened to him while he kept hitting until his hands were a mess...

Looks like next week's ep will be the setup for Iwo Jima?

Can't belive there's only 3 more to go

I agree on all points, but IMHO you missed on the most poignant part of last night's episode. When news breaks that the Skipper was killed via sniper through the scene where they are carrying him out via stretcher through the tunnel of his men. And then when they lay the blanket from his ol man's textile mill over his head... that was great television. The perspective shown through the soldiers' faces in those moments were just awesome.

"Dammit you piss me off. I f#ckin hate you and I hope you f#cking get killed by a rabid polar bear you douche bag."

I agree on all points, but IMHO you missed on the most poignant part of last night's episode. When news breaks that the Skipper was killed via sniper through the scene where they are carrying him out via stretcher through the tunnel of his men. And then when they lay the blanket from his ol man's textile mill over his head... that was great television. The perspective shown through the soldiers' faces in those moments were just awesome.

Absolutely BT, incredible to watch...

I also forgot to mention the lemonade stand and the look on Sledge's face...

I guess what I'm asking is this when you soldiers wonder if you'll ever stop battling and see home again?

I've been thinking I've been talking too much in this thread...........

I don't want anyone to think I'd proclaim to having been thru anything like that war and scenes like last nights and the week prior...but, I can relate to much

After about 2 months, home is just a word called The World. There exists only the moment, 60/60/24/7

In Vietnam one had the luxury of knowing when one's tour was up and it was all about counting down the days...like in Platoon when they're burning shit and smoking a joint in the rear while the sun sets...have been there and done that : )

I can tell you for sure that I'm thankful God made me a medic in Vietnam and not The Pacific...its whatever I've seen or done X 10,000

When you convert a whole platoon to stretcher bearers, the shit has hit the fan like few have ever seen thats for sure

God bless them all.

The shit scene was priceless...reminded me of a time when, after wading creeks in the deep jungle, we stop to drop shirts and trou and do a leech check. One guy sees one on the head of his dick, screams, knocks it off, and the head of the leech gets left behind.

Dumbfuck wants me to treat it....we all laff. I give him what he needs and tell him to fix his own dick. Sent him back on the next re-supply chopper

Sledge-hammer is taking a long time to get his tude right

Snafu rocks

...and no one wears the face of combat like Gunny Haney

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

Yes, many people know (or think they know) that I tend to be a bit of a liberal, but this series and this comment brings to point exactly how flawed revisionist history by liberal history majors really is.

In 1945, Truman and the Brass KNEW how the Japanese fought...they had seen it up close and personal from Guadalcanal on forward. And they knew that Japan would never surrender without an invasion.

Think how those crazy buggers would have fought defending their homes and immediate family, based on how they defended worthless pieces of volcanic rock.

It was sad that so many civilians died in the A-Bomb attacks...but it was less than would have died given a conventional attack of carpet bombing, massive shellings from battleships off shore, and then a major invasion by the Marines.

Truman was right. His decision saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Both American and Japanese.

Now I know why they set up the series this way. Tem episodes of this would just be tooo intense.

Hillbilly tossing stones in that cat's open dome just took the cake.

Definitely an interesting scene on many levels. No more so than Snafu not allowing Sledge to cross a very important line when he was set to dig for gold himself.

Snafu isn't above that but he recognized Sledge is and he pulled Sledge's humanity back form the brink even while he tossed rocks down some Japanese soldiers open neck.

Love the series but still can't get past the feeling that it is rushed due to the number of episodes. Still, they've done a nice job capturing the same types of emotion that countless books have, even if you have to look at it as a Cliff's Notes version.

Snafu isn't above that but he recognized Sledge is and he pulled Sledge's humanity back form the brink even while he tossed rocks down some Japanese soldiers open neck.

Great job of acting in that there was more to Snafu than met the eye beginning with his very first scene

I'd bet the original reaction of most to his character was he's a psycho. I don't think that's the case. He's just more hardened and experienced and found his own way to survive the killing field

This plays out to me in scenes of other Marines getting as vicious as Snafu. Like the flame thrower guy screaming his ass off while burning Japs and the other telling Sledge to fuck off when he was pulling some Jap's teeth

Considering the circumstances of how the Japs conducted the war, I don't see it as anything less than taking scalps and don't believe anyone but they themselves can sit in judgment...[not sayin anyone here does or not...juss sayin]

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

Snafu isn't above that but he recognized Sledge is and he pulled Sledge's humanity back form the brink even while he tossed rocks down some Japanese soldiers open neck.

Great job of acting in that there was more to Snafu than met the eye beginning with his very first scene

I'd bet the original reaction of most to his character was he's a psycho. I don't think that's the case. He's just more hardened and experienced and found his own way to survive the killing field

This plays out to me in scenes of other Marines getting as vicious as Snafu. Like the flame thrower guy screaming his ass off while burning Japs and the other telling Sledge to fuck off when he was pulling some Jap's teeth

Considering the circumstances of how the Japs conducted the war, I don't see it as anything less than taking scalps and don't believe anyone but they themselves can sit in judgment...[not sayin anyone here does or not...juss sayin]

Agreed. Tryin to say that even though Snafu may seem simple (and I saw him more as a dick/shit disturber/guy playing the veteran status card than a psycho when he was introduced) he understands there's a line that would have been crossed and he recognized Sledge didn't need to cross it then. Like he sees something in Sledge that he thought was worthy of saving or protecting because if he didn't he wouldn't have given a fuck about him digging in to the jaw of the dead Jap.

There's a tremendous amount of expression in Snafu's character IMO. To me he's the thermometer for the entire unit.