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cracker barrel on gaskins

Never had any problems for years. Was told at the door a few minutes ago that I had to put the gun in my car by the manager. I explained that open carry was legal and that I was within my rights...he said no guns in the store. I pulled my shirt over it and explained that I am licensed to conceal....he said no guns at all. I asked if this was the corporate ploicy...he said yes. I asked if there was a manager higher than him and he said no. I then asked for corporate contacts and his name. I went outside and called corporate...I explained that VA was an open carry state and that I also had a permit. I asked if it was corporate policy to bar handguns legally carried in a holster. I was told that they were sorry for the confusion but that someone higher up would have to contact me. I explained that I will leave my handgun which I am perfectly legally carrying in my van and if by some chance my family is harmed while my peffectly legal weapon not in my posession, law suits would follow. I explained that I was a member of three organizations that fight for and demonstrate the legally given right to bear arms in VA both concealed and open. I explained that if it was simply the managers opinion, then it wouldnt go unnoticed, if it was corporate policy then they have lost a long time patron and im from TN so I do mean a long time and as often as 5 times per month.

Never had any problems for years. Was told at the door a few minutes ago that I had to put the gun in my car by the manager. I explained that open carry was legal and that I was within my rights...he said no guns in the store. I pulled my shirt over it and explained that I am licensed to conceal....he said no guns at all. I asked if this was the corporate ploicy...he said yes. I asked if there was a manager higher than him and he said no. I then asked for corporate contacts and his name. I went outside and called corporate...I explained that VA was an open carry state and that I also had a permit. I asked if it was corporate policy to bar handguns legally carried in a holster. I was told that they were sorry for the confusion but that someone higher up would have to contact me. I explained that I will leave my handgun which I am perfectly legally carrying in my van and if by some chance my family is harmed while my peffectly legal weapon not in my posession, law suits would follow. I explained that I was a member of three organizations that fight for and demonstrate the legally given right to bear arms in VA both concealed and open. I explained that if it was simply the managers opinion, then it wouldnt go unnoticed, if it was corporate policy then they have lost a long time patron and im from TN so I do mean a long time and as often as 5 times per month.

1 - Cracker Barrel's no gun policy has been fairly well known for several years.

2 - Some folks have gotten away with OC at some CBs apparently beause the managers were not enforcing the rule, That does not change the fact that the rule has been there for several years.

3 -

I explained that open carry was legal and that I was within my rights.

Apparently you are under the impression that Cracker Barrel is some sort of government agency to which the Second Amendment applies. Sorry to be the one to break the bad news, but 2A carries no weight with private property/private businesses. If and when OCers/CCers become a "protected class" (race, sex, national origin, religion, etc.) 2A will be enforced against private businesses - but not till then.

4 - It has been found that standing there arguing with management or employees about your "rights" and that what you are doing is "legal" tends to only make those folks dig their heels in deeper due to the impression they form not only of you, but their notion that you are a fair representation of all OCers/CCers. There are other ways of dealing with the situation that seem more likely to result in a change of policy.

5 - Be sure to post the response you get from CB coroprate HQ, as well as te correspondence you sent them. It's often easier to show folks what did or did not work than to try and describe it.

stay safe.

"He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

"No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
----Allahpundit

Their address is actually 3620 Mayland Court, though it overlooks Gaskin Rd.

Up until about 2 years ago, we used to have breakfast meet n' greets at that exact store regularly and then feed the geese afterward - no more. Went from the manager, to district, to corporate - same answer, no guns.

hmmm

Im not a good representation of anything or anyone other than a man who refuses to be something he is not by pulling his pants down and destroying his vocabulary. Im quite hostile and angry. I promised the old lady cracker barrel. He asked me to put the weapon that was on my side in my vehicle..he said nothing of the.38 on my ankle or the derringer in my pocket. Ive never been the biggest fan of rules and laws, figure its better to be carried to jail than to the grave. She ate and I was armed to the teeth...oh well, I see now after keywordng cracker barrel that the situation is grim....just never happened to me yet and I have a relative that works at another that we frequent

Their address is actually 3620 Mayland Court, though it overlooks Gaskin Rd.

Up until about 2 years ago, we used to have breakfast meet n' greets at that exact store regularly and then feed the geese afterward - no more. Went from the manager, to district, to corporate - same answer, no guns.

Im not a good representation of anything or anyone other than a man who refuses to be something he is not by pulling his pants down and destroying his vocabulary. Im quite hostile and angry. I promised the old lady cracker barrel. He asked me to put the weapon that was on my side in my vehicle..he said nothing of the.38 on my ankle or the derringer in my pocket. Ive never been the biggest fan of rules and laws, figure its better to be carried to jail than to the grave. She ate and I was armed to the teeth...oh well, I see now after keywordng cracker barrel that the situation is grim....just never happened to me yet and I have a relative that works at another that we frequent

Never had any problems for years. Was told at the door a few minutes ago that I had to put the gun in my car by the manager. I explained that open carry was legal and that I was within my rights...he said no guns in the store. I pulled my shirt over it and explained that I am licensed to conceal....he said no guns at all. I asked if this was the corporate ploicy...he said yes. I asked if there was a manager higher than him and he said no. I then asked for corporate contacts and his name. I went outside and called corporate...I explained that VA was an open carry state and that I also had a permit. I asked if it was corporate policy to bar handguns legally carried in a holster. I was told that they were sorry for the confusion but that someone higher up would have to contact me. I explained that I will leave my handgun which I am perfectly legally carrying in my van and if by some chance my family is harmed while my peffectly legal weapon not in my posession, law suits would follow. I explained that I was a member of three organizations that fight for and demonstrate the legally given right to bear arms in VA both concealed and open. I explained that if it was simply the managers opinion, then it wouldnt go unnoticed, if it was corporate policy then they have lost a long time patron and im from TN so I do mean a long time and as often as 5 times per month.

I appreciate your making the point to them that their policy results in lost business.

never lasted long anywhere and dont give too much of a **** either. We all knowingly break the law daily. In fact, I said **** at VA beach oceanfront...warm up the firing squad. Quess my NRA, VCDL, and monetary contributions to scouser are not welcome any longer?

never lasted long anywhere and dont give too much of a **** either. We all knowingly break the law daily. In fact, I said **** at VA beach oceanfront...warm up the firing squad. Quess my NRA, VCDL, and monetary contributions to scouser are not welcome any longer?

Actually, he was never told to leave the property, in fact, he was asked to simply move the gun that was visible to the car, which was also parked on company property, which he did.

Unless he defied a specific request to leave the property, which the account does not support, I don't agree that any law was broken.

TFred

The OP said...

Originally Posted by thedevilrobyjohn

Never had any problems for years. Was told at the door a few minutes ago that I had to put the gun in my car by the manager. I explained that open carry was legal and that I was within my rights...he said no guns in the store. I pulled my shirt over it and explained that I am licensed to conceal....he said no guns at all.

Since the gun can't walk in and out at will by itself, I think its easily understood that "no guns at all" and "no guns in the store" means that you cannot be in there with a gun.

His condition of entry to be allowed in the store meant that he could not have a gun in there. I see that as trespassing.

Since the gun can't walk in and out at will by itself, I think its easily understood that "no guns at all" and "no guns in the store" means that you cannot be in there with a gun.

His condition of entry to be allowed in the store meant that he could not have a gun in there. I see that as trespassing.

Yep. We'll never agree on this... Until a published court case comes along saying otherwise, I will always hold that until the customer refuses a direct command to leave, no law is broken.

And I realize that since we are talking about a concealed gun, my position is fairly safe, since it is unlikely that anyone will see it. But even if it is clearly understood, store policies are broken all the time, for which there are no trespassing charges. This is another case where a gun in a store should never be treated any differently than any other policy, but even we are all too quick to do the exact opposite.

Example: Theaters routinely have signs that say no outside food, and outside food is routinely smuggled in. Are they trespassing? Maybe technically, yes, but have you ever, and would you advocate, arresting a popcorn smuggler based on a sign, or even a verbal notice, with NO request to leave the property? If you won't arrest for popcorn, you should not arrest for a gun.

2 reason I don't go to CB

The first reason is obvious. The second reason is I went to the Cracker Barrel in Emporia with the wife and after we got our food and I took my first bite, I was amazed at how awful the food tasted. Did you ever take a drink out of a rubber garden hose on a summer day? That is exactly what the food tasted like. I haven't been to a CB Barrel since. There are plenty of places to eat that don't care about my politics and have no problem standing with me when I exercise my 2A rights. Cracker barrel made their choice as did I.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." Thomas Jefferson (quoting Cesare Beccaria)

Yep. We'll never agree on this... Until a published court case comes along saying otherwise, I will always hold that until the customer refuses a direct command to leave, no law is broken.

Ahh, but he was given a very direct understanding of their policy that "you cannot be in here with a gun". He went back in with a gun; he is trespassing.

I also still maintain (as does a former prosecutor that I asked) that in this case for example, 18.2-308 (O) is being violated, and that reverts back to the fact that his permit is null and void on private property, i.e. carrying concealed without a permit; a class 1 misdemeanor.

Originally Posted by TFred

Example: Theaters routinely have signs that say no outside food, and outside food is routinely smuggled in. Are they trespassing? Maybe technically, yes

TFred

Is that like being a "little bit pregnant"? Is 56mph in a 55mph zone "technically speeding"? Where do we draw the line? You can't be in the movies with popcorn from the outside. If you do, you are violating the conditions of entry, i.e. trespassing, IMHO.

The first reason is obvious. The second reason is I went to the Cracker Barrel in Emporia with the wife and after we got our food and I took my first bite, I was amazed at how awful the food tasted. Did you ever take a drink out of a rubber garden hose on a summer day? That is exactly what the food tasted like. I haven't been to a CB Barrel since. There are plenty of places to eat that don't care about my politics and have no problem standing with me when I exercise my 2A rights. Cracker barrel made their choice as did I.

my wife worships their chicken and dumplings, there are at least three family members whos chicken and dumplings run circles around cracker barrels. Not too many places where you can get a plate of food with a side and drink for $5 with free biscuits and corn muffins....We eat the kids menu.

Ahh, but he was given a very direct understanding of their policy that "you cannot be in here with a gun". He went back in with a gun; he is trespassing.

I also still maintain (as does a former prosecutor that I asked) that in this case for example, 18.2-308 (O) is being violated, and that reverts back to the fact that his permit is null and void on private property, i.e. carrying concealed without a permit; a class 1 misdemeanor.

Is that like being a "little bit pregnant"? Is 56mph in a 55mph zone "technically speeding"? Where do we draw the line? You can't be in the movies with popcorn from the outside. If you do, you are violating the conditions of entry, i.e. trespassing, IMHO.

he made me raise my shirt to expose the empty slide holster upon reentering the store. you are correct about all of your statements. doesnt change the fact that I will not lay down for anyone and my familys safety comes first, I refuse to be a helpless target. Courts, schools and federal property is where I draw the line...dont go to church so no worries there.....after that, Im armed. Its why I have quite a collection of derringers, north american arms and the old casuls......one is no bigger than your thumb in a change pouch that is regularly practiced cocking and firing in the pouch...robber sees a change purse come out of my pocket, never sees a gun but feels the shock of being shot in the head, neck, face. Id rather be an outlaw than a dead or grieving law obiding mark

I also still maintain (as does a former prosecutor that I asked) that in this case for example, 18.2-308 (O) is being violated, and that reverts back to the fact that his permit is null and void on private property, i.e. carrying concealed without a permit; a class 1 misdemeanor.

Ugh, not that again!

No way, no how... you have an overzealous prosecutor. 18.2-308 (O) is only about private property (ETA: or places where carry is generally prohibited), and nothing about the act of concealed carry. If it's ever used against concealed carry, it's a stretch, and well beyond what the General Assembly ever intended, IMHO. A poorly written part of the law, taken advantage of by unscrupulous prosecutors. I believe (O) was added as a concession, ONLY to clarify that CHPs do not OVERRIDE private property rights. Nothing more.

Yet another nuance that will never be settled without a court of record publishing an opinion.

TFred

ETA: Read the section, it says nothing about the mode of carrying at all.

"O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property."

.....doesnt change the fact that I will not lay down for anyone and my familys safety comes first,

Ok, let's change the scenario.

I'm walking down your street with my child, and my nasty, snarling, vicious attack pitbull. A thunderstorm hits and I run up on your front poor with my child and dog to seek shelter from the storm. You come out and tell me that I can't have that dog there because he is vicious and is scaring your children, who are afraid of dogs. I refuse to leave, because I feel that its unsafe for me and my child to go back out in to the storm. Am I trespassing on your property?