It doesn't; casual =/= easy. Casual = players spending maybe 24-48 hours a week playing this game. Those 48 hours don't have to be easy.

LFR caters to casuals because its a quick way to raid for people who don't have time to find a guild and adjust to the guilds time scheduale. The difficulty that was implemented was not for casuals it was something doable for a "Pug".

You can also just make professions in advanced (well you should of anyway) if you are in a hardcore pvp group.

It doesn't; casual =/= easy. Casual = players spending maybe 24-48 hours a week playing this game. Those 48 hours don't have to be easy.

LFR caters to casuals because its a quick way to raid for people who don't have time to find a guild and adjust to the guilds time scheduale. The difficulty that was implemented was not for casuals it was something doable for a "Pug".

GW2 forum :P.
btw I know casual =/= easy I was just wondering why lucky_ thought the change to pvp char's would be catering to the "casual crowd"

1. Far more likely scenario is that arenanet will do the same as in GW1 - far too few slots to have one of each class, and then sell extra slots for money. I still don't think they'll be assholish enough to screw all PvPers with lengthy character creation menus, there will probably be a "this is a pvp only character, give me access to PvP zones only and skip all creation stuff but looks" option.

2. Casual players rarely need quick rerolls for PvP reasons, they're far more interested in consistency of gameplay experience. For such players, being able to play games on same character will provide more consistency to the gameplay experience, i.e. "this is me" rather then largely disconnected experience that PvP only character creation used to offer in GW1.

1. Far more likely scenario is that arenanet will do the same as in GW1 - far too few slots to have one of each class, and then sell extra slots for money. I still don't think they'll be assholish enough to screw all PvPers with lengthy character creation menus, there will probably be a "this is a pvp only character, give me access to PvP zones only and skip all creation stuff but looks" option.

That would be nice, but is that really a hindrance? Is that really going to be the reason you don't PvP though? Are you really going to need all 8 professions right off the bat or at all?

Is taking 30 seconds to delete a toon, then press nextnextnextnextnext in the character creation screen going to be that WTF moment that stops you from PvPing?

LFR was just an example :3. People confuse the intentions of implementing things for casuals as easy. (Which I think lucky was implying)

ok just making sure you didn't think my post was whining at "casuals" considering it's interpreted differently by many different ppl, or that you thought this way a wow post :P

In fact I love LFR and defend it to the death because I'm in a guild that doesn't raid anymore so LFR allows me to take down deathwing (or would if I was still subbed to wow :P)

updated my question to avoid further confusion.

Originally Posted by Lucky_

1. Far more likely scenario is that arenanet will do the same as in GW1 - far too few slots to have one of each class, and then sell extra slots for money. I still don't think they'll be assholish enough to screw all PvPers with lengthy character creation menus, there will probably be a "this is a pvp only character, give me access to PvP zones only and skip all creation stuff but looks" option.

at least you don't have to lv a char to lv 80 before pvping :P

Originally Posted by Lucky_

2. Casual players rarely need quick rerolls for PvP reasons, they're far more interested in consistency of gameplay experience. For such players, being able to play games on same character will provide more consistency to the gameplay experience, i.e. "this is me" rather then largely disconnected experience that PvP only character creation used to offer in GW1.

I don't think you can generalize a group of players into "they won't reroll/ they want a consistency of gameplay experience" Casual isn't just one type of player, and I am not a person qualified to talk about it because I just seem to be making a bigger hole/derailing the topic even more (sry mod :3).

one day there will be a day when ppl stop using the word casual and hardcore because honestly they have no meaning to me anymore, ah what a glorious day it will be

I don't think you can generalize a group of players into "they won't reroll/ they want a consistency of gameplay experience" Casual isn't just one type of player, and I am not a person qualified to talk about it because I just seem to be making a bigger hole/derailing the topic even more (sry mod :3).

one day there will be a day when ppl stop using the word casual and hardcore because honestly they have no meaning to me anymore, ah what a glorious day it will be

I can talk about people I have played with, which is not a generalization but specific reference about specific group of people. In my experience, vast majority of people who play casually, i.e. don't take the game too seriously and play for fun prefer to take the path of least resistance while remaining as comfortable as possible. This means PvPing with their PvE characters even if their gear isn't top notch, just to save time on PvP reroll (provided they had skills unlocked for that character in GW1).

Also, casual and hardcore are in fact real words with defined meanings. Look them up in a decent dictionary.

---------- Post added 2012-01-04 at 04:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by zito

That would be nice, but is that really a hindrance? Is that really going to be the reason you don't PvP though? Are you really going to need all 8 professions right off the bat or at all?

Is taking 30 seconds to delete a toon, then press nextnextnextnextnext in the character creation screen going to be that WTF moment that stops you from PvPing?

Problem is that you also need to take a couple of minutes setting skills, gear and so on in order. Now imagine you have a group ready to go, and we decide that one needs to reroll a different class so our composition works better. Everyone is raring to go, and just waiting for that one person to reroll.

Now imagine having to wait like this several times per hour on daily basis. Those thirty seconds become hours and days very fast.

Problem is that you also need to take a couple of minutes setting skills, gear and so on in order. Now imagine you have a group ready to go, and we decide that one needs to reroll a different class so our composition works better. Everyone is raring to go, and just waiting for that one person to reroll.

at least you don't have to lv a char to lv 80 before pvping :P

Once again, is it really going to be a problem.

Now imagine having to wait like this several times per hour on daily basis. Those thirty seconds become hours and days very fast.

If you are PvPing in a group of several people (2-5) and are not caring what profession you play (I am assuming you don't since you are talking about re-rolling), with (throwing out a random number) each of you having 5 character slots I don't see that being a problem. Since each of you can just make each profession ahead of time.

Meaning if you need a ranger in the group, one of you who already made a ranger can just go to ranger if you did not make a ranger.

Problem is that you also need to take a couple of minutes setting skills, gear and so on in order. Now imagine you have a group ready to go, and we decide that one needs to reroll a different class so our composition works better. Everyone is raring to go, and just waiting for that one person to reroll.

Now imagine having to wait like this several times per hour on daily basis. Those thirty seconds become hours and days very fast.

To be honest this just sound a bit nitpicky to me. Even if you had all your characters created before hand you will still have to customize it to fit your specific team. A bigger issue for me would be if I had to rebind all my keys for every character I make, now that would take time. Hopefully it is possible to carry them over from other characters.

To be honest this just sound a bit nitpicky to me. Even if you had all your characters created before hand you will still have to customize it to fit your specific team. A bigger issue for me would be if I had to rebind all my keys for every character I make, now that would take time. Hopefully it is possible to carry them over from other characters.

at least you don't have to lv a char to lv 80 before pvping :P

Why is everyone nitpicking, you don't have to level to max which would take probably 5x as long as setting up your keybinds or making a toon to level 1.

I can talk about people I have played with, which is not a generalization but specific reference about specific group of people. In my experience, vast majority of people who play casually, i.e. don't take the game too seriously and play for fun prefer to take the path of least resistance while remaining as comfortable as possible. This means PvPing with their PvE characters even if their gear isn't top notch, just to save time on PvP reroll (provided they had skills unlocked for that character in GW1).

Also, casual and hardcore are in fact real words with defined meanings. Look them up in a decent dictionary.

Problem is that you also need to take a couple of minutes setting skills, gear and so on in order. Now imagine you have a group ready to go, and we decide that one needs to reroll a different class so our composition works better. Everyone is raring to go, and just waiting for that one person to reroll.

Now imagine having to wait like this several times per hour on daily basis. Those thirty seconds become hours and days very fast.

First of all it boggles my mind that anyone would complain about making a character. Is it really such a chore to spend <5 mins making a character? I think their character creator is wonderful. You can skip through stuff if you want by just hitting next or you can spend a LOT of time making the character just what you want. Why is this even an issue?

As for setting skills, I don't know what you are talking about. Half your bar is set in stone based on your weapons. So you have to switch 4-5 skill on your bar. That will take you any real time? Really? Should take 20 seconds top.

Lucky, stop complaining just to complain. You are annoying as hell. If you have some legitimate complaints we all don't mind helping, but so far I haven't seen anything. Just nitpicking and whining.

My argument apparently functions as the best litmus paper for "I have PvPd seriously in GW1" .

Yes, it's amazingly annoying to be the one slowing 7 (or in GW2's case, 4) other people when you're rerolling. It's even more annoying to have someone else do it while you have to wait. Especially when you have limited amount of time in total, and you've had to wait for it several times since you booted the game that day for the same reason. It doesn't sound like it to someone who never had to experience it, because it doesn't feel bad for first few times. But boy does it start to add up as months pass.

Yes, it's amazingly annoying to be the one slowing 7 (or in GW2's case, 4) other people when you're rerolling.

If you are PvPing in a group of several people (2-5) and are not caring what profession you play (I am assuming you don't since you are talking about re-rolling), with (throwing out a random number) each of you having 5 character slots I don't see that being a problem. Since each of you can just make each profession ahead of time.

Talk to your group ahead of time and decide which person gets which 5 of the 8 professions. So all you have to do is log out, then log in according to the combination you want.

Talk to your group ahead of time and decide which person gets which 5 of the 8 professions. So all you have to do is log out, then log in according to the combination you want.

Again, I'm not talking about casual PvP. In hardcore PvP, you make adjustments on the fly, as needed. Often between every match. "Talking before starting" will get your out of one reroll max, and usually not even that as in most cases, it's "okay, he logged on, let's go, who's inviting? Aw fuck, he needs to roll PvP char..."

My argument apparently functions as the best litmus paper for "I have PvPd seriously in GW1" .

Yes, it's amazingly annoying to be the one slowing 7 (or in GW2's case, 4) other people when you're rerolling. It's even more annoying to have someone else do it while you have to wait. Especially when you have limited amount of time in total, and you've had to wait for it several times since you booted the game that day for the same reason. It doesn't sound like it to someone who never had to experience it, because it doesn't feel bad for first few times. But boy does it start to add up as months pass.

if you've really pvp'd in GW1 and thus have actually played GW1, you know there's only 4 char slots with the first box you activate, so you whining about having so "few" char slots at GW2 release is just obvious childish nitpicking.

and setting up a char from head to toe in GW1 has always taken time unless you had no stuff unlocked and thus were forced to queue with the default build. if you had to be of some whatever pvp team, that had to be with some already existing char (which you chose not to use since you want to create a new one in the first place). then again, if you're the type that can't stick to a few characters and keep deleting some to recreate new ones like 10 times a day, you might as well have bought a few more char slots to keep a few pvp chars at hand. what's 20-30 bucks if you're really "serious" in something - not to mention in a B2P game with no monthly sub?

I can talk about people I have played with, which is not a generalization but specific reference about specific group of people. In my experience, vast majority of people who play casually, i.e. don't take the game too seriously and play for fun prefer to take the path of least resistance while remaining as comfortable as possible. This means PvPing with their PvE characters even if their gear isn't top notch, just to save time on PvP reroll (provided they had skills unlocked for that character in GW1).

Also, casual and hardcore are in fact real words with defined meanings. Look them up in a decent dictionary.

I know Casual and Hardcore have meanings but It's become a word that means something different to each individual, I'm pretty sure Hardcore players play a game Hardcorely Because its fun, I know quite a few Hard core players take the path of least resistance when competing in world first to get wow. Their are ton's of "casual" ppl who pvp, and who do the same thing of rerolling their pvp char because there char slots are full.

Originally Posted by Lucky_

Again, I'm not talking about casual PvP. In hardcore PvP, you make adjustments on the fly, as needed. Often between every match. "Talking before starting" will get your out of one reroll max, and usually not even that as in most cases, it's "okay, he logged on, let's go, who's inviting? Aw fuck, he needs to roll PvP char..."

To casual PvP, this is more of a boon, as I stated above.

Ok I'm done with this casual vs hardcore argument, opinions are going to differ.
It seems like the way to solve would be your problem buying enough slots to fit all 8 classes, problem solved :P

Again, I'm not talking about casual PvP. In hardcore PvP, you make adjustments on the fly, as needed. Often between every match. "Talking before starting" will get your out of one reroll max, and usually not even that as in most cases, it's "okay, he logged on, let's go, who's inviting? Aw fuck, he needs to roll PvP char..."

To casual PvP, this is more of a boon, as I stated above.

Sounds like a personal problem, not a game problem. Are characters even restricted to PvP and PvE in guild wars 2? Isn't that a GW1 thing.

I also don't see the need to reroll after every map, that does not seem practical even for hardcore players.

I also don't see the need to re-roll after every map, since what team your playing against is random so there is no way to tell what composition can be the best.

It's the comp/counter-comp meta game that you see in things like LoL/WoW arenas. Each team tries to out-comp the other so each player can play almost any class and will frequently change based on which team they are facing. Personally I hate the comp/counter-comp meta game, mainly because I hate all meta games.