Oh yes, I'm sure it is, but I think that you may be going a bit too far. Don't take my word for it, watch people as they recognize your new argumentative attitude. It's happened to me, stuff like that doesn't go away. Do you really want to be known as this person? On the other hand, it is serious, but a true arguer knows when to stop. I have a feeling that you won't.

Hanna_Brassheart:

Okay, you want me to post all the conspiracies and their proofs? First of all, I closed Hans's topic because this isn't the right place for that. But maybe I will post it elsewhere.

I know, I'm the person that first brought the topic to your attention. So it seems like you've got yourself in a conundrum. That's just. Too. Bad. Go ahead and post it elsewhere. I'll argue about that too.

I will say once again: So let me get this straight- you guys are talking about evil stuff, right?

Since I'm honestly too lazy to read through all of your arguments...

But anyway... I suppose I'll end on this note...

Anything evil, wether it's you're friend doing something or a bad TV show, don't try to dig into it in the first place. Temptation and your sinful nature will be what causes the consequences, unfortunately. But a way to shoot down those bad stuff is- you guessed it- Bible verses. The devil is afraid of them, and it's one of the best tools we can use. @Hanna_Brassheart, .But I do have to say, no one should exactly criticize other people with Bible verses, unless it's for a reasonable reason. Bible verses aren't used to shoot down people, honestly...

Maybe, we're so caught up in the arguing part. So, please correct this gram if it's wrong:

Argument:Whether or not a Christian should read/watch/listen to books or other types of recreation/media with a dark theme with moral or not.

@Hanna_Brassheart's opinion: (correct me if I'm wrong, @Hanna_Brassheart) No type of content within that bound should be used by Christians. The best way is by avoiding them altogether and keeping close to God and the Bible's truths.

@Xonos_Darkgrate's opinion:Darker themes can be permissible with maturity in Christ, and can even be used to other advantages. Evil morals and themes, however, should be avoided completely.

@Miss_S's opinion: (correct me if I'm wrong, @Miss_S) Darker themes can and are permissible in some cases to be used for witnessing and entertainment. Ignorance and evil-embracing, however, is not right.

That, is what I think, @Hanna_Brassheart. Again, I hope this makes sense and hopefully provides more insight into the argument. CAN WE JUST STOP NOW?!

Okay, I have something to add.Is entertainment so important to you that you would sacrifice your conscience/guard for it? (And, @Xonos_Darkgrate1 don't yell at me for repeating this. When I repeat something in an argument, it's because it's important and no one has refuted it yet.)The Bible says to only think about what is pure. It also says to avoid evil. Jesus says if you love Him you'll obey His commands, and the Bible is the word of God. Can you argue against that?

Is entertainment so important to you that you would sacrifice your conscience/guard for it?

No. I consider my maturity in Christ and daily prayer and devotion my safeguard. Right now, you are saying I have completely let my guard down and I'm telling you also that I have not. So no, I have not "sacrificed" your conscience/guard for entertainment. Again, you are assuming that I am reading the worst of worst books without any thought about it. But I've already told you that I started reading fully knowing what I was going, and if the Holy Spirit convicts me, you can be rest assured that I'll put any of those books down immediately.

Hanna_Brassheart:

don't yell at me for repeating this. When I repeat something in an argument, it's because it's important and no one has refuted it yet.)

Fair enough, but even you should see that if something doesn't convince anyone than it probably wouldn't work to rub it in their faces again.

Hanna_Brassheart:

The Bible says to only think about what is pure. It also says to avoid evil.

We all sin by defying this rule. I have as well. But what I'm saying is that you can read books with dark themes and still think purely. Think about it, how would I know something is evil if I had not already known what was right and wrong? How did I know, because I had maturity in Christ and thought purely to know enough about good and evil. Simply reading something with a darker theme does not make you evil if you know what is right and wrong. In fact, you can see the whole thing as evil. Reading the book itself is not wrong, praising and worshipping the dark concepts, however, is. That is something @Miss_S and I have not done.

Hanna_Brassheart:

It also says to avoid evil.

Okay, I'm going to take a different approach to this part. Because a book has darker themes, that does not make it evil. If the book praises the darkness, shows it as goodness. That, that is evil, and I don't read those books. Want a few examples?

Lord of the Rings.if you forget about beautiful elves and noble kings, you can see the LotR series as a book about evil Warlords and witchcraft. LotR is actually very violent if you think about it. Does that make it evil? No. It has those themes, but portrays them accordingly. Therefore giving us a clear view of who is good and who is evil. Other books I read do that as well. They aren't evil.

Hunger Games.While the theme is extremely dark, right and wrong is immediately portrayed correctly. While a much larger plot goes on, the main protagonist goes through events that forces her, (and the reader), to reconsider how government and other morals may have impact on people around them as well as themselves.

The Bible itself.Undoubtedly the most important and the best book in the world, the Bible's truths and morals are undisputable. And while there is nothing wrong with the Bible, it has some VERY dark themes. For younger viewers' sakes, I won't be listen most of that stuff here. But some of those themes would include mass genocide, child sacrifice, and many pagan things. Does this make the Bible evil? NO! Rather, it shows a clear line of what is good and evil as well as tell us what must not be done.

The same can be said for many other books, and those, @Hanna_Brassheart, are the books I and @Miss_S read. I don't look to contradict the Bible, but rather take its word to the fullest extent possible. Why? My best answer is my personality, but if you have a better one, go ahead and say it.

No. I consider my maturity in Christ and daily prayer and devotion my safeguard. Right now, you are saying I have completely let my guard down and I'm telling you also that I have not. So no, I have not "sacrificed" your conscience/guard for entertainment. Again, you are assuming that I am reading the worst of worst books without any thought about it. But I've already told you that I started reading fully knowing what I was going, and if the Holy Spirit convicts me, you can be rest assured that I'll put any of those books down immediately.

At this point you're assuming that my questions are rhetorically pointed at you. - I could make a jab here like you might and say the world isn't pointing at you, but I won't... because that would be mean, and I'd appreciate it if you'd be more civil, thank you- I'm talking about books not in the sense of the overview of their plot, such as good vs. evil, but rather the actual content in the books. Can you read a bad word without seeing it? When you read bad things, i.e. language or excessive descriptions of gore, it's rather warping. Referring back to Philippians 4:8 and my last remark above.It's good that you will put down books and "burn them if necessary" . Some people, like me, when they pick up a book or series, have a hard time setting it down until finished.

This whole argument is me trying to get you to be careful. I have seen so many Christians read books and watch shows, go to those instead of the Bible, change their beliefs around.. and led further and further away from Truth. -sighhh-

So here are my last words, and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't post a rebuttal. If you have anything else to say, please tell me somewhere else.

Be careful. Evil is subtle. Tiny little anti-Bible morals and themes can be found if you look, and if you don't look they may influence you for the worse. Don't be like Charles Wallace in A Wrinkle in Time, who thought he'd be able to pull himself out of IT, but couldn't on his own.

(By the way, I recently re-read A Wrinkle in Time, and yes, I'm getting rid of that series. There are a bunch of universalist themes in it.)

Let's just close this argument!

That just means that if I enjoy doing things that the Bible says is okay. Even if other people don't see that.

Hanna_Brassheart:

At this point you're assuming that my questions are rhetorically pointed at you. - I could make a jab here like you might and say the world isn't pointing at you

Maybe, why, was it not? If not, then my apologies. I'm fine with you taking jabs, but I appreciate you not doing so. I apologize for acting immaturely earlier as well. I shouldn't have, and I won't be doing so anymore.

Hanna_Brassheart:

Can you read a bad word without seeing it? When you read bad things, i.e. language or excessive descriptions of gore, it's rather warping.

Yes, I understand that. That's why I don't read Michael Crichton or Lee Child books anymore. Hunger Games, on the other hand, actually refrained from excessive gore and didn't really have cuss in it. So that's really my defense on the Hunger Games series' part.

Hanna_Brassheart:

Some people, like me, when they pick up a book or series, have a hard time setting it down until finished.

Yep, I'm like that too. Though I suppose I'm blessed with the (talent?) of, when seeing extremely obscene or immoral content in a book, having immediate disgust and henceforth another trip back to the library to return the book. It's a bit different with movies which is why I don't watch movies that I know will have content like that.

Hanna_Brassheart:

This whole argument is me trying to get you to be careful. I have seen so many Christians read books and watch shows, go to those instead of the Bible, change their beliefs around.. and led further and further away from Truth. -sighhh-

Well, if you said that earlier, I'm sure that would've prevented A LOT of argument on my part. Yes, I appreciate that, and I won't stop you from doing it again. On the other hand, I am careful of what I watch, read, and listen to. So no, I won't be leaving the faith on account of nitty gritty literature. Thank you though, @Hanna_Brassheart.

Hanna_Brassheart:

(By the way, I recently re-read A Wrinkle in Time, and yes, I'm getting rid of that series. There are a bunch of universalist themes in it.)

Uh.. I wasn't planning on reading it anyways, but OK! Not reading Wrinkle in Time EVER.

Hanna_Brassheart:

Let's just close this argument!

Agreed!And in regards to this:

Hanna_Brassheart:

I'd appreciate if you wouldn't post a rebuttal

This post isn't really a rebuttal. It's more of an agreement if anything.

My main point of all of this is NOT that we shouldn't maintain some discernment about what we watch and listen to, and even what we post about on an online kid's forum. My point is that there are some of us who are naturally predisposed to enjoy certain types of media, and that we should not be insulted, condemned, declared to be EVIL and running off a cliff because we happen to enjoy something.

I was a voracious reader in 3rd grade, for crying out loud, and we have kids here. Where does the line STOP? Is The School Story evil? Is Beezus and Ramona evil? Is Adventures in Odyssey evil? Is the Aetherlight evil? Where do you draw the line in the sand? In fact, the Bible itself - which I have read cover to cover many times - doesn't flinch from covering idolatry in explicit detail. Ezekiel is more explicit than any Red song and had me raising my eyebrows for weeks.

Is all media an opportunity to let the devil in? Even Christian-labeled media can be bad - recently I was reading about a controversial Christian movie called the Shack, which portrays the theology of the Trinity incorrectly and has numerous theological errors, all of which I dare say would be more dangerous to ingest than the Hunger Games. (and I did not watch that one, let me tell you!) Where does the reactionary paranoia end?

In any event, I have not heard any argument from you as to why the Hunger Games is evil. You have data? Tell me all about it, please.

Because right now this argument has disintegrated into attacking each other's attitudes toward media, and that's not going to get anywhere. My big issue, @Hanna_Brassheart, is that you cold-insulted two people who mentioned a book they read, telling them that they shouldn't be reading it or that it was evil, then failed to give any evidence to back up your claim and instead attacked all of the people who believe differently from you. That really indicates an attitude of fear, and what you fear controls you.

I admit that I got irritated and got influenced by my emotions here because I think people being insulted for who they are is wrong, and that always makes me want to grab a flamethrower. I'm sorry.

Details, details...

Hanna_Brassheart:

Proverbs 4:14-18Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away.For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Hanna. Yes you should.

You cannot control other people. People walk off cliffs all the time, and it's not your fault. The Bible says to walk away from the path of the wicked. It does not say to condemn the wicked and yell at them.

Only God knows the heart of me, @Xonos_Darkgrate1, and @Iliara_Mustardtop . You do not. If I'm leading people astray, God will tell me all about it. You are not his mouthpiece.

Hanna_Brassheart:

Only Jesus can truly end it. Refer to the above verse: It says to avoid it, to turn from it.

We are to turn from the ways of the wicked, not hide from people who need to hear the truth. People turn toward darkness all of the time, for all sorts of reasons, media included. You're not called to save them. It's not your job. We're called to tell the truth, not judge people for their choices.

It's possible to read a piece of media, the Hunger Games included, and not being led to the dark side or into bad choices. It's possible for someone to read a piece of media and jump off a cliff. It depends on the situation. You're making assumptions.

Matthew 7:1: Judge Not, that you may not be judged.

Hanna_Brassheart:

There are actually plenty conspiracy theories with lots and lots of proof, proof beyond reasonable doubt.

In that case, it's not a conspiracy theory anymore, HB. It's a fact. A theory is inherently a speculative, unproven idea about what could be true. I have no doubt that real conspiracies exist, and those that do have evidence that surfaces about their existence eventually. The plot to kill Hitler, for example.

Hanna_Brassheart:

That's what I use reviews for. Reviews are the best way to learn about something, apart from actually watching it (and seeing something bad...).

I have done this in the past, yes. Oftencase reviews can be biased, however, so I've often gotten 2nd and 3rd opinions, and if the opinion of the person I'm dealing with is different from the review, I have little choice but to read the work and settle the matter myself.

In fact, most of the time I would have to actually read/watch the work first before I declare it evil, because I would need evidence for this fact. In the case of the Shack above I got several reviews that outlined the theological problems in detail and accordingly decided not to watch it.

I've also used reviews to correct my view of works that I've already seen - often they are good at pointing out problems with a work I've missed for further investigation.

Hanna_Brassheart:

If you let it, it gets worse and worse, until all of a sudden you're buying Katy Perry songs.

And there are a whole lot worse things to be listening to than her, heh. Plugged In will tell you all about it...without exposing you to any of the evil, of course.

Hanna_Brassheart:

1 Corinthians 10: 30-31:30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

2 Timothy 2:21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

The Bible doesn't contradict itself, HB.

Media choices are a matter of preference. That's what the 1 Corinthians passage refers to. The 2 Timothy passage refers to matters of church doctrine.

Hanna_Brassheart:

it had to do with work about innocent kids stories that weren't labeled Christian, but they didn't teach anything wrong either.

Are you saying the Hunger Games isn't evil and IS INNOCENT? I'll get back to you on that ...

It is. FTR, though, my previous work had to do with a kid's series called Bionicle, which is a whole different animal, and other related Lego stuff. Nothing to do with the Hunger Games.

Xonos_Darkgrate1:

Yes, this is true. @Miss_S did not mean that she would do it herself, but rather with the Scriptures with her. (Correct me if I'm wrong, @Miss_S).

I'll verify this. Evil can only be overcome in God's power and direction, and the Scripture is the tool to do that.

Xonos_Darkgrate1:

Okay, other than that, you'd rather stay away from things like that? (applauds) Yes, that's fine. And I wish my personality would let me as well. You see, and I'm not really speaking for @Miss_S here, just for myself; I prefer to read and occasionally watch these things for similar reasons to @Miss_S's posts. However, I respect your choice to stay away from them because that reduces your chances of that type of temptation by, well, a lot. Temptation is not a sin; it's just that @Miss_S and I would rather face it than stay away from it altogether. I find it empowering when I defeat temptations, and if I fall, my parents and God are always there to pick me up. So, in any case, it's a learning lesson. Something I, and maybe @Miss_S, appreciate.

Yep.

Xonos_Darkgrate1:

I don't know if you're implying that @Miss_S and I are soon going to start telling everyone to read the Twilight series, but I'm telling you that I'm not.

Me neither. The Twilight series is absolutely awful - it advocates abusive relationships in the context of extra-biblical entities that cannot exist. In addition to that, it has sparked a toxic fandom culture and the movies are poorly done from a creative standpoint. Not worth it.

Xonos_Darkgrate1:

@Miss_S's opinion: (correct me if I'm wrong, @Miss_S) Darker themes can and are permissible in some cases to be used for witnessing and entertainment. Ignorance and evil-embracing, however, is not right.

coughcough, @Miss_S. While your argument was superb, it's already over. I'm sure that @Hanna_Brassheart and anybody else would appreciate it if we all accepted and respected that fact.

Anyways, @Hanna_Brassheart, you said it yourself. Don't bother replying, okay? No matter what you feel or know, let it go. If you don't, that's pride. Don't let it influence you. Forgive, forget, and pray.

We all gave really good arguments here, and now it's up to others to decide what God puts upon their hearts. Alright?

I declare this argument:

CLOSED

Thank you, @Xonos_Darkgrate1, you're an answer to prayer. Last night I prayed that God would help me figure out how to close the argument. My prayer was answered through you, and it's not a coincidence. Thanks again.

As far as verses being out of context, I encourage everyone interested to look up the verses in the Bible and read the context yourself. I do not believe I have quoted any verses out of their context.

Any further posts on this subject will be removed.

As always, if you have a problem with anything, please meet me in game and we can have a nice chat.

On a different subject, I read the Wrinkle in Time books and some of Madeleine L’Engle’s other books and actually found them inspiring (they’re some of my favorites). While obviously beings on other planets don’t exist in the real world, she gave a neat picture of the theme of good vs. evil in the real world, and I thought it was amazing that she managed to work in scriptures and references to God without being cheesy and in fact, it was rather moving.(I didn’t want to argue, just present another perspective on a book series that I’ve loved for a long time. Feel free to disagree and YES, the argument had gone on way too long...)

This was an interesting article @Hanna_Brassheart! But something I would like to present to the table of Harry Potter discussion, is that (most) Christians often say that Harry Potter is bad and filled with witchcraft and such. However they make no claim against LOTR or The Chronicles of Narnia which are just as magic filled as Harry Potter and have the same elements. To me, this does not add up at all. I myself find it quite easy to judge some kinds of content and let others slide, so perhaps that's what is happening. I think that Harry Potter are just as good books as LOTR and Narnia, and that there are good morals to learn from in them. :

Actually, @Gloria_Oldenpinner. Both Narnia and LOTR clearly draw the lines between good and evil. Also, neither include witchcraft on the side of the "good guys". Aslan himself is technically the parallel of God in the story and isn't magic. While all dark arts in that story are used to portray the evil. Harry Potter, on the other hand, blurs the line between good and evil by promoting the idea that everyone can use whatever magic they like without consequence. People probably don't know this, but J. K. Rowling actually admitted to studying real witchcraft in real life in order to make her books "more realistic". In any case, LOTR and Narnia carefully portray these things as they should be. Something I think that the Harry Potter series lacks.

I don't like arguing, I just like to get my point across. Also, there are more important things to worry about in life, like food, helping people in poverty, loved ones, and if I should be a detective or a veterinarian.

Well, @Gloria_Oldenpinner. You got your point across, but that's different than me agreeing... And what's the point of your argument if no one sided with you? In any case, no. I still don't agree with you. So in other words, round two.

I also disagree with your statement as there are more 'important things". I do agree that those are good things, but if you compromise your life with moral darkness in Harry Potter (or other) books, that may render most other "good things" you do useless.