I would sit on the bitton for 24 hours just to be sure the result was achieved.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —

All of the good done in the name of religion can easily be accomplished by secular means. The harm and abuse done for religious reasons would disappear. Sounds like a win. Also, there is plenty of data out there relating the overall health of a society with how religious the citizens claim to be.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —

(14-02-2014 09:30 AM)toadaly Wrote: No, I'm saying you're a dishonest troll. I gave you a chance for serious discussion, and you frittered it on an idiotic attempt to equate 'value' with 'belief'.

No, I pointed out that an "opinion and it isn't based on anything objective" is a belief. I doubt many people would find this unreasonable. You tried to re-spin your opinion which isn't based on anything objective as a value.

Quote:You are not interested in anything but poo slinging, and I get enough of that from the people who also offer stimulating exchanges.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —

And it cannot be said that the charitable actions and giving outweighs the crapping results of religious belief. I have attended a couple of church meetings that my wife works at, where the finances and budgets were approved. Less than 2 friggin percent of money taken in goes to help the needy for food, shelter, counseling...etc. Evangelism efforts and the freaking church band each recieved more funds than the less fortunate folks in the community. What would jeebus think? What a damn joke!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —