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Hi All,
After killing my first ever elgg based site a few weeks ago and having to go through it all again to get one back up and running, plus not knowing that many of you run a test server etc which does make sense.
I have decided to try and get...

Okay I have started a plain english Idiots guide to creating a plugin. The object is to go through the process of creating a plugin that you can use on your site and hopefully learn a lot as you go along.
The plugin will not be uploaded to the...

Good start and addition to your other help guides you started the other week Jededitor. :)

BTW, you mean the other Rob that's on here I hope? I previously stated I'm not an experienced programmer lol, however anyway I can help in someway between trying to complete my 3 diff sites, I will do so.

All those that give up using elgg, use this thread and state your reasons,... Ill begin:-
My Reason: After having found 1 small thing i wanted change, after days of looking, Im now spending more time looking for another small thing to change. These...

@Sirwan.. talking for myself, I was not going on the defensive, I was just trying to be factual.. for marketing reasons, all software distributors will always tell you that you can use their code and you're in business in minutes.. we all know that is not always true.. The fact is no matter what piece of code you work with, it takes time to dress up.. I am sorry that you are having such a hard time, and I know that you would love to use elgg because you like it.. but at the same time, this is just one of those things that only time can deal with. I would take what those other guys are saying seriously as they have been doing it for some time and Dhrup over there knows the script like the back of his hand, so, he wouldn't be making up bullshit.

@Soulz.. money for peace of mind?? sounds like a good deal to me.. and yes, it is the right thing to do... (Note: you should tell Bill Gates to put his money where his mouth is and get a hair stylist..LOL).

OK, I have read the "Note: this is not a demonstration site for Elgg." Fine. But is there one? More than one? Surely there must be some site where Elgg users, people with Elgg sites, and Elgg administrators of all kinds...

Yes, I was afraid of that. Dhrup, you already know everything, have exactly the right interests and abilities for those docs. If there was someone exactly like you who just needed the Elgg info you have, then those docs would be ideal. But for the rest of us? I dunno, butI feel more in line with jededitor, who seems to grasp that there is something missing. By the way, now that I have seen Eduspaces.net (which took a bit of doing) I have a more specific point to make. Why, when you first install Elgg, doesn't it look a lot like Eduspaces? Then the adminstrator could make all the fine hacks and tweaks that jededitor can tell us about, with a nice working system. Preferably with a "save changes" button, a "restore from saved changes" and a "restore to defaults" button. This me in my analyst mode, something I would have suggested upfront if I had been here, but surely it could be done now. Then the amount of "idiot's" documentation needed would be much less.

Firstly, I never thought you complained, rather I could see that you are frustrated with some issues. This is something we both have in common as I too am frustrated with a few issues. And I know that you'll eventually get your project done because you are taking the time to analyse things.. That's all it takes.

Now, I know you directed the above comment to Dhrup, but I hope you don't mind me giving some input on that.. and by no means am I claiming to be an expert, because I am not. When you look at the 'plugin/theme' integration and management system in Elgg, you'll find that the 'save changes' and 'restore' features do in fact exist. Once you enable a plugin, it is deployed, once you disable it, the default alternative is restored. This is a little different to the traditional 'modify' and restore functions which commonly affect the same file (ie, modify file.php, then, restore the same file.php). Despite this, the outcome is the same. My take on the benefits of using the elgg method are:

It allows flexibility in design (modify different plugins independently so that you are able to use themes and features unique to each portion of you SN.

It preserves the integrity of the core code which remains untouched (unless of course you are a hack freak like myself and some others.. and if you do hack, keep a log as many of those hacks will vanish when you upgrade).

Build you SN in blocks without cluttering your core code. That way, your code remains relatively short and controllable.

And of course, and perhaps most importantly, retain the open source nature which allows contributors to go in and submit themes, plugins and all other kind of applications without having to tamper with the core.

I gues the real question here is: why not have the plugins themselves have the 'restore to default' function..?! Some might think this would be an overkill because if you screw up your plugin, just re-load a fresh one to the server. Either way, it's workable.

I think you, and the many others who raise the documentation issue are justified in your frustration, and I do believe that it needs to be more explanatory to say the least. Having said that, I cannot be taken as an expert on this because I am basing this only on what I read in posts.. Me personally??? I'll have to be honest and say I have not read any documentation.

The way I see it is there's a will, there's a way... and if you have someone or something to show you that way, then that would be a blessing.

Thank you all very much, this has helped me a lot. I see that I will have to learn a lot more about plugins. I am glad to see that Dhrup and Jededitor have just started groups or topics about plugins -- perhaps a bit too developer-oriented for me, but I will follow along and see what they say. What has made the greatest difference to my understanding of Elgg is getting into a good active site -- Eduspaces, one that answered my original question about where there might be a fully operational site. (By the way they have no registration button -- I only got in through the kindness of Tami, who agreed to invite me). Anyway, I greatly enjoy the site, which does what I wanted -- it lets you find people on the basis of interests, and does other things I hoped for too. I wonder how they did it? I don't know enough to emulate them yet, but I am getting very optimistic now. Thanks again to all of you.