Actually, I believe one of the problems JConte had when running his "tests" of the new engine was that all the teams he used were the same. So, when it was released out into the open on us, our teams with drastically different players on them caused some weird outcomes. Am I remembering that correctly?

Posted by bhouska on 1/14/2013 6:30:00 PM (view original):Actually, I believe one of the problems JConte had when running his "tests" of the new engine was that all the teams he used were the same. So, when it was released out into the open on us, our teams with drastically different players on them caused some weird outcomes. Am I remembering that correctly?

I believe you're correct. In one of his 'oops, sorry' posts he mentioned that this was the case and that the next time a beta was run, he'd do it with more realistic teams.

Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

Posted by harriswb3 on 1/15/2013 8:22:00 AM (view original):Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

I think this needs to be considered. It takes 4-5 seasons of recruiting to mold a team that you expect certain results from. Mismatched player attributes to formation and style won't give much valid proof that what we expect from this game will occur as we want it. We may need 4- 5 seasons of "recruit only" to form our teams then start a beta for the play-by-play engine. Mish-mashed player attributes will provide mish-mashed game results. Many of the past complaints have not been about a season 1 - 3 coach losing to a sim or similar status human team. It has been established teams getting beat by a 60 pt lower rated team without reasons why. If those mis-matches aren't available to evaluate also, the beta test may not give the results we would like.

There also need to be teams to test the limits of what us evil-minded coaches think. You know...

- Teams with no WR with hands above 30
- Teams with only walkon QBs
- Teams with no K/P
- Teams with no RBs that have to run with their WRs / QBs
- Teams with horrible formation IQs across the boards vs teams with very high formation IQs

Posted by harriswb3 on 1/15/2013 8:22:00 AM (view original):Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

I think this needs to be considered. It takes 4-5 seasons of recruiting to mold a team that you expect certain results from. Mismatched player attributes to formation and style won't give much valid proof that what we expect from this game will occur as we want it. We may need 4- 5 seasons of "recruit only" to form our teams then start a beta for the play-by-play engine. Mish-mashed player attributes will provide mish-mashed game results. Many of the past complaints have not been about a season 1 - 3 coach losing to a sim or similar status human team. It has been established teams getting beat by a 60 pt lower rated team without reasons why. If those mis-matches aren't available to evaluate also, the beta test may not give the results we would like.

Posted by harriswb3 on 1/15/2013 8:22:00 AM (view original):Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

I think this needs to be considered. It takes 4-5 seasons of recruiting to mold a team that you expect certain results from. Mismatched player attributes to formation and style won't give much valid proof that what we expect from this game will occur as we want it. We may need 4- 5 seasons of "recruit only" to form our teams then start a beta for the play-by-play engine. Mish-mashed player attributes will provide mish-mashed game results. Many of the past complaints have not been about a season 1 - 3 coach losing to a sim or similar status human team. It has been established teams getting beat by a 60 pt lower rated team without reasons why. If those mis-matches aren't available to evaluate also, the beta test may not give the results we would like.

That is a great point. An option could also be if that an entire existing world could be copied into Beta and you would get all flavors of teams that way from the start.

Posted by harriswb3 on 1/15/2013 8:22:00 AM (view original):Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

I think this needs to be considered. It takes 4-5 seasons of recruiting to mold a team that you expect certain results from. Mismatched player attributes to formation and style won't give much valid proof that what we expect from this game will occur as we want it. We may need 4- 5 seasons of "recruit only" to form our teams then start a beta for the play-by-play engine. Mish-mashed player attributes will provide mish-mashed game results. Many of the past complaints have not been about a season 1 - 3 coach losing to a sim or similar status human team. It has been established teams getting beat by a 60 pt lower rated team without reasons why. If those mis-matches aren't available to evaluate also, the beta test may not give the results we would like.

+1

+1

If I read correctly norbert is projecting a 2 season beta. I believe this is far too short. 5-8 seasons seems more reasonable. As a paying customer I'd like to not have to pay to beta test again.

It seems a beta world should be able to be compressed. Sign ups 1-2 days. Recruiting 2 -3 days. I wouldn't even object to playing 2 games a day. PO's and bowl season could be shortened up. If you even need a PO's in a test world. Shortening the world down to 3 weeks outta be doable.

We've waited this long. But I have no desire to play another game that hasn't had the bugs worked out enough in test play.

Posted by harriswb3 on 1/15/2013 8:22:00 AM (view original):Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

I think this needs to be considered. It takes 4-5 seasons of recruiting to mold a team that you expect certain results from. Mismatched player attributes to formation and style won't give much valid proof that what we expect from this game will occur as we want it. We may need 4- 5 seasons of "recruit only" to form our teams then start a beta for the play-by-play engine. Mish-mashed player attributes will provide mish-mashed game results. Many of the past complaints have not been about a season 1 - 3 coach losing to a sim or similar status human team. It has been established teams getting beat by a 60 pt lower rated team without reasons why. If those mis-matches aren't available to evaluate also, the beta test may not give the results we would like.

+1

+1

If I read correctly norbert is projecting a 2 season beta. I believe this is far too short. 5-8 seasons seems more reasonable. As a paying customer I'd like to not have to pay to beta test again.

It seems a beta world should be able to be compressed. Sign ups 1-2 days. Recruiting 2 -3 days. I wouldn't even object to playing 2 games a day. PO's and bowl season could be shortened up. If you even need a PO's in a test world. Shortening the world down to 3 weeks outta be doable.

We've waited this long. But I have no desire to play another game that hasn't had the bugs worked out enough in test play.

Posted by harriswb3 on 1/15/2013 8:22:00 AM (view original):Great news Norbert. I'm not sure I understand what you really said above, regarding player pool and testing....but having different players across the teams is probably a good thing. I don't really want equal talent. My wishbone works when I have the kind of talent that I want...and can find the mismatch against others.

I think this needs to be considered. It takes 4-5 seasons of recruiting to mold a team that you expect certain results from. Mismatched player attributes to formation and style won't give much valid proof that what we expect from this game will occur as we want it. We may need 4- 5 seasons of "recruit only" to form our teams then start a beta for the play-by-play engine. Mish-mashed player attributes will provide mish-mashed game results. Many of the past complaints have not been about a season 1 - 3 coach losing to a sim or similar status human team. It has been established teams getting beat by a 60 pt lower rated team without reasons why. If those mis-matches aren't available to evaluate also, the beta test may not give the results we would like.

+1

+1

If I read correctly norbert is projecting a 2 season beta. I believe this is far too short. 5-8 seasons seems more reasonable. As a paying customer I'd like to not have to pay to beta test again.

It seems a beta world should be able to be compressed. Sign ups 1-2 days. Recruiting 2 -3 days. I wouldn't even object to playing 2 games a day. PO's and bowl season could be shortened up. If you even need a PO's in a test world. Shortening the world down to 3 weeks outta be doable.

We've waited this long. But I have no desire to play another game that hasn't had the bugs worked out enough in test play.

+10000000

I don't believe you can decide in advance how many seasons Norbert will need. Yes, it may need more than 2 seasons, but I would be willing to bet if it does we will have more seasons...BUT, if Norbert can get what he needs in just 2 or 3 seasons why continue? Honestly I think he's the only one that will know if and/or when the game is getting the results he wants...