John Piper Doubles Down on Trayvon Martin

In my blog post yesterday, I wondered if John Piper would be willing to repent of his transgression of the ninth commandment sixteen months ago, when he jumped on the anti-Zimmerman bandwagon to score a few cheap piety points before all the facts were in. One of my friends actually took the links for my articles, posted them on John Piper’s Facebook page, and asked him directly if he’d like to repent of his article. While my friend did not receive a direct response, Piper did double down twelve hours later by reposting a link to his article, saying, “What I wrote about the the death of Trayvon Martin 16 months ago is strikingly what I still want to say.” This repost kicked off something of a firestorm on Piper’s wall with many people siding against him. It’s kind of funny when someone dislikes you so much that he’s willing to publicly embarrass himself just to spite you.

Piper not only reposted his own article from sixteen months ago, but also posted a link to an article published yesterday by Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, on the Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman affair. Before John Piper reposted and reaffirmed his article proving his disregard for the ninth commandment, one could have feebly argued that perhaps Piper was acting in good faith, but he just didn’t have all the facts yet. Even this weak defense cannot be offered for Mohler’s horrendous article. All the facts are in, and yet Mohler still chooses to just flat-out lie. The article takes the tone of “the talk” which John Derbyshire so artfully countered (and was fired for) last year. Excerpts from Mohler’s article:

The fact is that George Zimmerman was the only witness to what happened on February 26, 2012. Trayvon Martin was dead, and there were no other witnesses to the event.

Apparently this guy is invisible to the “only Zimmerman and God” crowd.

Trayvon Martin was killed, however, not by another African-American young male, but by a man who in a 911 call declared Trayvon was suspicious and out of place and then rejected the police dispatcher’s order to stop following him.

Police dispatchers cannot give orders, and the one speaking to Zimmerman did not give an order. They have to counsel inaction to avoid lawsuits.

The photos of Trayvon Martin shown to the world show a normal, happy, 17-year-old boy. A boy who had been living with his mother, but had been sent to be with his father after an incident in school. In other words, a 17-year-old boy who not only was in the right place, but for a very right reason–so that he could be watched over by his father.

Not only is this a blatant lie, but it makes no sense. Having dealt drugs and used them, and having been implicated in a jewelry theft ring, the man with Twitter handle “NO_LIMIT_NIGGA” was suspended from school for ten days and sent to live with his father – this is somehow admirable? No one who has seen the pictures from Trayvon’s social media accounts can honestly argue that he was a normal seventeen-year-old boy, at least by white standards. If Mohler wants to use ghetto black standards, then sure, Trayvon was normal; but he needed to make that explicit, because that completely changes and derails his article.

A smiling 17-year-old boy who had gone to a convenience store to buy a soft drink and a snack was shot to death, and we will never know exactly how or why.

To buy the ingredients to make the drug cocktail Lean. And “smiling”? Remember: Zimmerman never smiles. Only Trayvon smiled.

May God watch over every single [young black man], for they, starting with Trayvon Martin, belong to all of us.

How about Zimmerman? Do he and all the other men doing community service “belong to all of us” too? I guess that doesn’t fit Mohler’s narrative though.

Now, contrast Piper’s and Mohler’s articles with one posted by Doug Wilson today. While I would quibble with him on a couple points – the unhistorical, or at least incomplete, picture of lynching and the assumption that suspicion of blacks is unwarranted – it is, on the whole, miles above the drivel of Piper and Mohler. Contrasted to the fanatical ethnomasochism in Piper’s and Mohler’s articles, Wilson’s article is very even-handed, pastorally focusing on the importance of the rule of law and counseling against unfair and hypocritical rushes to judgement.

Because of the nature of the question, I am not going to ask for a show of hands here, but I am going to ask you to be brutally honest with yourself. You don’t have to tell anybody how you answered this thought experiment. You are the owner of a jewelry shop in a city, the kind of shop that has bars on the windows, and a buzzer lock to let people in on a case-by-case basis. It is five minutes until closing and a solitary individual shows up at the door. Do you buzz them in? You might say, it depends. Great. On what? Be honest, and whatever your answer is, be sure that you stop condemning others for doing in public what you would do in private.

Nathanael Strickland is the owner and chief editor of FaithandHeritage.com. He was born in Dallas, TX, grew up in upstate SC, and now resides in SE TX. He received both his BS in Political Science with a minor in Economics and his MBA from Clemson University and now works in project management, SEO, and web design. He has ancestors who fought with the patriots in the American Revolution, with the Texans at the Alamo, and with the Confederacy in the War for Southern Independence.
You can reach him by email at editor [at] faithandheritage.com.

That Mohler article leaves me incensed. How a supposed “man of God” can LIE through his teeth like that is beyond me. Does the man have no sense of shame? No sense of guilt for trampling all over the Ninth Commandment? What a despicable display.

Mohler and Piper are so far gone into the lies of the black victimization/white racism narrative that I wonder if they can even see the truth concerning these matters anymore–even when that truth is staring them right in the face.

The Bible is clear that we are not to be respecters of persons or show partiality (James 2). But in their repeated actions, Mohler and Piper have shown themselves to give partiality and favoritism to blacks at the expense of the truth. In this they are “committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors” (James 2:9).

SouthronAmerican

Just another example of the continuing self destruction of American Evangelicalism. They are terrified at how completely they’ve lost their influence over the American public, especially the “millenial” generation and will say or do anything to try and get it back. They will, of course, fail utterly. The only question is how much damage they’ll do the in the process.

“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,

“‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’”

Joey

Oh man, I can’t decide whether the uselessness of addressing the problems with this article should outweigh the cathartic affect it will have on me to do it anyway. I’d say that you guys make me embarrassed to be white except that it would play into your hilariously (not really) backward way of elevating race as if its anything more than an arbitrary construct.

But, just because, lets look at a couple things.

1. George Zimmerman IS the only witness of the moment that he shot Trayvon Martin, That, being the key event, was not witnessed…and this is not disputed. He also, incidentally, is the only witness left of another key moment; the initiation of the physical altercation. There were of course many witnesses to other parts of the event, from the friend of Trayvon Martin on the phone, to the dispatcher, to various people who saw glimpses of the fight. Since anyone with the reading comprehension skills of a 3rd grader or above could have recognized this about Mohler’s statement, I am left to conclude that either (a) your reading comprehension is that of a 2nd grader or below, or (b) you are very eager to misrepresent Mohler’s position in order to accuse him of lying. Both are concerning in their own way, but I will go with the second option.

2. Police dispatchers, while having to legal binding authority, are very capable of giving orders. Everybody who can form a sentence and put meaning behind it is able to give an order. Whether there is any authority behind it is another matter. My 2 year old daughter orders me to do things all the time, she is simply confused about who is in authority and needs correction. You are correct that the counsel they offer is informed by a desire to avoid lawsuits, but it is also to promote safety. We can debate about whether the wording of the dispatcher and his tone communicated an order or simply a bit of advice, but most ofthe time when someone who handles emergency situations as their vocation says “we don’t need you to do x” the learned individual on the other end of the phone should interpret that as “I shouldn’t do x.” There is a difference in thinking someone is wrong, and thinking they are lying. You can disagree with Mohler calling it an order, but to say he lied is to assume he agrees with your analysis of the situation, but is pretending he doesn’t. If you have found a way to peer into another’s soul this way, I salute you.

3. Your assertion that the tea and skittles purchase was to make a drug cocktail is..well..a lot of things. If you communicated it as a guess I would simply write it off as a sad, bigoted, irrelevant guess. Since you communicated it as a fact, I am writing it off as a sad, bigoted, irrelevant guess based on any number of logical fallacy’s (depending on how you chose to defend the statement.) For someone seemingly so concerned about the ninth commandment you seem queerly unconcerned with making slanderous statements yourself.

4. I’d love to address all the evidences of bigotry in your post, but since you freely acknowledge your adherence to views reasonable people abandoned a long time ago I feel that would be even more of a waste of time than everything else I have said. If the plethora of solid theological and scholarly work destroying the basis of everything you say on this site wasn’t already readily available to you, perhaps it would be worth it. But, as Ayn Rand so bluntly said, (forgive my paraphrase) those who deny reason cannot be conquered by it. I leave you to your echo chamber, sir.

NathanaelStrickland

1) A witness is still a witness even if he only witnesses part of the event. What we have is a short period of time in the beginning with only Zimmerman and Trayvon, then a eye-witness who backs Zimmerman’s story during the middle, and then a short period of time at the end with only Zimmerman and Trayvon. So we have an eye-witness who backed Zimmerman’s account during the middle part, none of the physical evidence contradicting Zimmerman’s story about the rest of it, and really no way to create a narrative taking those facts into account which doesn’t vindicate Zimmerman. This is why he was found not guilty. Even Rachel Jeantel on Piers Morgan backed Zimmerman’s story in a round about semi-literate way, “They don’t understand, they understand, ‘Oh, he would just bash, or was kill.’ When somebody bash somebody, like, Blood people, trust me, in the area I live, that’s not bashing. That’s just called ‘whup-ass.’ You just got your ass whupped. That’s what it is.” i.e. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman to just “whup-ass” and Zimmerman is evil for not just sitting there and taking it.

Mohler is disingenuously pretending that there is a lot of doubt when in fact there is very little, because he’s playing his boo-hoo black children need to scared narrative. This is a faux-concern played up for some cheap white guilt piety points. As Ann Coulter put it, “To avoid what happened to Trayvon Martin, [young black men] need only follow this advice: Don’t walk up to a stranger and punch him, ground-and-pound him, MMA-style, and repeatedly smash his head against the pavement.”

2) First of all, Zimmerman agreed to follow the police dispatcher’s recommendation:
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
After which Zimmerman stopped and give the dispatcher info on how the incoming police could find him.

Secondly, most police dispatchers are civilians working for the police department; they don’t in fact have any legal authority in and of themselves to give orders. The Sanford Chief of Police Lee himself said, “That is a call taker making a recommendation to him. He’s not under a
legal obligation to do that, so that is not something we can charge him
with,” as quoted by CNN. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/14/justice/florida-teen-shooting

3) What I said was absolutely factually correct; Trayvon Martin went to the store to buy two of the three ingredients to make the drug cocktail Lean. Whether he was planning on using these ingredients to make Lean, no one can say, however the fact that he was intimately familiar with the drug cocktail and implies previous use – my version is more plausible than Mohler’s innocent, angelic Trayvon went to the store for snacks line.http://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/lean-2-e1337766657695.jpg

4) Our opponents are always talking about this “plethora” of evidence and arguments “destroying” our worldview, but they can never get around to actually producing it. “You’re wrong, but you’ll just have to take my word on it”. Try again when you have something of substance.

P.S. Quoting the anti-Christian Ayn Rand isn’t helping your case.

Enoch Powell

Joey,

Put up or shut up.

You remind me of my 5 year olds neighborhood friend who is always boasting about how he is going to hit a home-run just before every pitch he swings and misses on.

Marshall your arguments and get that cathartic ooze son. Let’s see these Kinist defeaters.

“Black radicalism” is an era when black people were relegated to subordiante status really doesn’t mean what you think it means. But, of course, you’re working from the assumption that white makes right.

NathanaelStrickland

Red Rosa Parks was a Communist activist and plant, there is nothing admirable about her. The Communists ignored other incidents in previous months of blacks being asked to move back because they wouldn’t have made good poster cases for their agenda (men with criminal records and a pregnant out of wedlock woman), that’s why Rosa Parks was planted on that bus in that situation.

BC

Nathan, unfortunately there are many young white teens who dress like that as well..they wear the hoodies, the baggy pants, drugs and thugs, which are also influenced by the rap culture. These are teens in small towns and big cities around America–

My son grew up going to a reformed teaching church, but he still has a sinful heart (just as I do) and he struggles with the temptations of the world just as all of us do. But his struggles are not in vain, they will be used in his life for God’s Glory. He is still learning what it means to ‘die to self’ and live in Christ’s redemption.

Had it been MY son walking through that subdivision dressed in his hoodie, Mr. Zimmerman would have responded the same way and my son in his sin filled and rebellious heart would have also responded the same way as Trayvon Martin is said to have responded, even throwing the first punch. I know this, because I know my son, for a great number of years, I and our church family have prayed for him as we have witnessed first hand the enemy of God trying to destroy his life and his soul. At this time, we are now beginning to see the fruit of those prayers, as the enemy of God continues to fight for his destruction. God’s word is not returning void, and my son is seeing God’s light shining through to him, and he is realizing what it means that the enemy of God is out to destroy him. He is turning around, finding some new friends, graduated high school and now working full time–

There are some battles you fight with words, there are others you fight on your knees in prayer..the difference is knowing which is which..The battle for my son has had to be on my knees and not verbally over his dress and choice of friends–it was actually interesting as I opened my home to his friends (yes, all those who wore the hoodies and acted like thugs) he got angrier because they felt accepted and loved (something they didn’t feel at their own homes) and rebelled even more, but I understood and understand it wasn’t me he was rebelling against, it was God, and God’s love for him. He wore on the outside, what many youth sitting in church pews wear on the inside and he knew that–even made comments about it, as he watched many of those same teens who sat in the church pews on Sunday’s at school acting and dressing just like he did, when away from home doing the drugs and drinking–and some of their parents raising their noses at him whispering to their teens “stay away from him he’s trouble.” What is unfortunate is that some of those parents who were whispering, are now dealing with some of the same legal things we did..and it’s come as a ‘shock’ to them–because they believed their children were ‘pillars’ based on what they seen outwardly..and didn’t see the rebellion going on inside. I was blessed, because I witnessed outwardly what was going on inwardly and knew better how to pray for my son and how to ask others to pray for him and our family.

So as you see these kids, pray for them and their families, many assume they do not come from Christian homes, but some of them do, but mostly because they are rebelling from God.

Chris

I think its very irresponsible for pastors like this to pour gas on the flames with their echoing of the media narrative. When i first read Al Mohler’s article I was shocked and suprised. So much so i sent him an email. I did not know at the time about this article from John Piper whom i also have high regard for. Here is the email i sent to Mohler. I know its a bit long but had a lot to share with him

Greetings Dr. Mohler

I have listened and learned from your teachings a great deal and i respect and appreciate you as a great teacher, expositor, and man of God. As i was scrolling through my twitter feed the other day I saw a tweet by Dr. John Piper with a link to your article about the Treyvon Martin tragedy. Being engaged in the situation just like many others and hearing what many pundits had to say on the issue I was delighted to find you had weighed in with your thoughts in an article. After reading your piece, to my surprise, I was quite dissapointed with your perspective on the issue. Please allow me to state my reasons

Let me start off by saying that I am not a young black man in America but I am however a Hispanic male that grew up in the inner city of Dallas, TX. I have lived most of my life around other black and Hispanics. I was also very engaged in urban culture and as a young man was involved in DJ, producing and even performing rap music. I say this so you can know I understand the minority, inner city, urban culture well.

I have experienced racial profiling many times and possibly still do. I was handcuffed and released on 2 separate occasions for questioning of crimes that i did not commit. To this day i understand the dangers of being pulled over for driving in a nice neighborhood.

Through experience I acknowledge there are individuals that have stereotypes and prejudices for those not of the same color. The issue here is that they are just that – individuals. The portrait that the media portraits is of a justice system and country that has not changed in the last 50 years. My rebuttal is this – a few individuals with
racial tendencies does not qualify us to label the whole system and
country as such. I do not believe there is an epidemic of racial injustice like the media and others are trying to advance in this aftermath.

When i was growing up in the inner cities i actually experienced more of what some would call reverse racism. Black and Hispanic youth would like to “punk” and “diss” white kids that they felt were soft, nerdy, or just different. It seems that this behavior has become the norm and is acceptable in our culture.

As a minority, I now hold a good job and have had promotions that i hope are due to supervisors (of all colors) noticing my hard work and integrity. I hope my success is not because of Affirmative Action or any other race equality programs that were useful at one point in time.

Back to your article. You mentioned not having to speak to your kids about racial profiling. Many of us are not able to speak on every issue but does that disqualify us from knowing there is brokenness in this world? Just as you would never experience having that conversation, you also may not ever experience having a conversation with your son as a police officer doing his job in a world where we celebrate rap songs that speak about harming and murdering police.

By your same logic does that mean we are not able to counsel or comfort a child from a broken home because our parents were never divorced? We do not need to experience every issue to know and properly diagnose the problem. In the gospel we understand the problem is not in the actions of an individual but is in the deceit and evil arising from the hearts of being born totally depraved.

You mentioned “It is dangerous to be a young black male in America”. While this may be true it is not for the sake of being attacked by white individuals or police officers, these cases are few and far between. The greater danger,is the culture of black on black or brown on brown violence being pushed by rap artists and holywood. Growing up in this culture i never felt my life was in danger at the hands of a white man or a police officer. My life was in danger many times as the result of fights and gang activity by other blacks and Hispanics in my neighborhood. When you have a media invested in racial divide and play to emotions every chance they get, I see a great danger in Christians joining the narrative.

You also mentioned this is a tragedy of “a nation wounded, confused, and tormented by the color line”. I do not know how one tragic (and agree unnecessary) incident makes you draw a conclusion that we as a country are at this point. I think of bigger issues like the murder of unborn children, the assault on the family, drunk driving deaths, suicide, moral decay, and pedephellia. These issues happen at a much more rampant pace than a murder that is presumed to happen because of race.

You mentioned “conversations that must come from our nation and our churches”. My question is why? Do we as a church see a great need to have conversations about rape or conversions about drunk driving or conversations about pedophilia? Though we need to point and educate of the dangers of these issues we never see a great call to converse on them. Why is that? I conclude that because we properly diagnose the root of these issues. The root of these issues is sin. The cure is not a conversation, the cure is the gospel. I guess my biggest disappointment with you and some others as that you did not extend the same solution to race that you do to other shortcomings. Falling short of Gods glory should include racism. The solution? The depraved heart of the individual needs to know the love of God, so that then he could then extend that same love.

To conclude i do believe that racial profiling, hatred and racial divide exists on every side. This is a broken world that is in need of the light of the gospel. As a church, joining in with the media template of over-analyzing, mistaken presumptions and playing to emotions not only aren’t helpful but indeed are hurtful.

Sincerely

natejlee

Ever since Piper came out with “Bloodlines” I knew he was on the slippery slope to moral relativism. The fact that he adopted a black child only confirms it. No doubt he did it solely to appear as some sort of champion for benevolence, altruism, and self-sacrifice. We here know he has only polluted his own mind and family. His blatant disregard for the ninth commandment is the consummation of his wayward actions and beliefs years in the making. Who else saw this coming??

I am sick and tired of babying no-good dark-skinned thugs! Statistics have shown over and over again that black people are incapable of lawfulness; if Zimmerman hadn’t done it, Trayvon had it coming anyway. This disgusts me that Piper and Mohler would tacitly and explicitly affirm and support the black lifestyle. And by black lifestyle I mean drug abuse, domestic abuse, crime, robbery, low intellect, promiscuity, family aversion, alcoholism, delinquency, materialism, greed, violence, liberalism, and I could go on but this comment would become an essay LOL I do that sometimes when it comes to talking about the black lifestyle.

To be completely frank, I believe Trayvon’s death is due to the sins of his fathers, that is, if he even knows his father. Numbers 14:18 says, “The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity OF THE FATHERS upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.” It’s clear to me that the Martin family has some repenting they need to do if they want to avoid this kind of mess for their other children. Our gracious God will forgive them, but we here all know that if Trayvon were alive, he would need a whole load of forgiveness for the things he was doing in those pictures, am I right?

May the Good Lord have mercy on us all. May he have mercy. We need it.

http://thethreews.wordpress.com/ Ken Leonard

“I am sick and tired of babying no-good dark-skinned thugs! Statistics
have shown over and over again that black people are incapable of
lawfulness”

That this hasn’t been rebutted shows me all I need to know, now … never mind … this is a flagrantly-openly racist blog and set of comments. Never mind, Nathaniel.

People who promote hatred and call it Christianity are deeply, deeply sad.

NathanaelStrickland

Pointing out racial crime statistics is hatred. I guess that make the Department of Justice’s figures “hate-facts”.

natejlee

Ken – I appreciate your comment and I hope you are not so sick of this website that you won’t read mine. Guess what – I’m not white. I wrote my original comment posturing myself as a racist white male because I knew that any attempt at logical, sensible dialog would not be received well by the folks on this site. I never thought I could be such a good fake white supremacist! Not only was my comment not rebutted, I got 9 up votes! Thanks everyone!

To the writers, readers, and supporters of Faith and Heritage, thank you for your literature and entertainment. I’ll be frank – you are clearly thoughtful and passionate people; this I can respect. And honestly, I think the Church needs white folks who know themselves and are passionate about their cultural legacy. I mean that. But the fact that I can come on here and fake a comment that gets 9 up votes might show you how ridiculous some of this is. Free speech for everyone!

Does anyone have a guess as to what race I am? Yes! You win! I’m Chinese American. That’s right – American. I am just as American as you Ken and yes, even you, Nathanael Strickland. You probably don’t get that many Chinese people visiting this site. I am so grateful for the welcome I’ve received and all the love and support you gave me on my inaugural comment. Thanks also for the Exclusion Acts of 1882 and the many massacres against people who look like me. I am indebted.

If any of you are ever in the evil state of California and want to grab coffee, just shoot me a comment. Thanks for reading, and I hope this is the first of many constructive conversations we can have on Faith and Heritage. God bless!

NathanaelStrickland

Your comment wasn’t rebutted because the sentiments in it are overall correct. The rhetoric is over the top in a number of places and paints with the “all” stroke instead of the more accurate “many” or “most”, but since comments represent the views of those who leave them and not necessarily our own views, we didn’t feel the need to quibble. I mean, even the best Ken could do was point and splutter.

Your comment would have been approved even if you had announced up front that you were Chinese. Comments are generally approved if they don’t contain profanities and/or if they contribute substance to the conversation.

If a cat gives birth in a doghouse, that does not make the offspring puppies. There are many races living in America now, but only the descendants of the founding stock and their kin have the legitimate right to claim the term American. The term Afrcan American was invented to distinguish American Blacks from real Americans – white people. Back in 1960 when America was 90% white everyone knew this as accepted fact. The floods of third world immigrants have muddled, but not changed that. faithandheritage.com/2011/01/who-does-america-belong-to/

The Exclusion Acts of 1882 were a good idea and if they had been implemented earlier and more strictly, those massacres would have been entirely avoided. Diversity + Proximity = War, always has, always will. That’s why good national boundaries are not only a Biblical idea, but just plain common sense. Further, according to 2010 census data, there are 941 naturalized citizens living in China from a non-Chinese ethnic group out of 1,400,000,000 people. Yep, you read that correctly: 941. On the other hand, there are 3,347,229 people of Chinese ancestry living in America out of a population of 314,000,000. Also, “anti-african chinese riots” and “africans riot in china” produce some interesting Google results. So if you want to bring out the exclusion card, you need to take care of the plank in your own eye first.

Kinism and ethno-nationalism are universal Biblical principles. I regularly interact with non-white Kinists on Facebook. And while this site is unashamedly aimed at white Kinists, most of our articles can easily be retooled for anyone. For example, our current series about why Christianity must be the foundation for white nationalism could easily be reworked into a series about why Christianity must be the foundation for Chinese nationalism. The errors addressed and historical backdrops would be different, but the theological principles would be identical. In fact, 5% of F&H’s traffic comes from non-white countries with the Philippines and Brazil being in our top ten and India, Singapore, Japan, Argentina, Malaysia, and Mexico in the top thirty.

I’ve never been to California and based on everything I’ve read and heard, I doubt I will ever visit. However should that change, I will let you know. I always enjoy discussions with people who are interested in these topics. I hope you that you do continue reading and adding constructive comments.

natejlee

My friend (if I can be so bold as to call you that), I appreciate you saying that my original comment was correct overall. The part where I would disagree with you is that, well, it was entirely satirical. And that discrepancy in perception is reason enough for lament. But I don’t and shouldn’t expect you to read it how I wrote it because we live in entirely separate realities. We’re not on the same page, we’re not in the same book, we’re not on the same shelf that contains the book, and we’re not even in the same house that contains any of that stuff. I apologize for that extended and generally ineffective analogy.

I hope you do change your mind about California though. Maybe you’d like it – we have a legacy of white supremacy here too. If you ever decide to come, I will welcome you into my home, my mother can cook for you, and after eating her food, I’d be hard pressed to think that you wouldn’t, just for a moment, appreciate my family’s presence in “your” country. I hope one day we can swap stories because I can learn much from you and you can learn much from me. And maybe then I’d become a human being to you.

With that said, I believe my time on this website is done. Three comments and I’m spent! I’m sure Colby Malsbury is happy about that. It was fun while it lasted, F&H. It’s not you, it’s me. To anyone reading (all 1 of you), feel free to take any line from this comment out of context and refute it – I won’t respond. Instead, I’m going to hang out with my white friends and apologize to them incessantly for trespassing on their land.

Hip hip cheerio, my white comrades!

NathanaelStrickland

Truth is objective, not subjective. If you write in satire that 2 + 2 = 4 when you really believe that 2 + 2 = 5, that doesn’t magically change the correct answer to 5. And if the best defense of a multiracial country is “look at all the different foods”, then I’ll call this a win for my side. I’m sure your mother’s food is absolutely delicious, but I’m equally sure that that fact is completely irrelevant on the civilizational level. It’s also clear that you do not understand my position as you attribute beliefs to me which I do not hold to such as believing that there is some transcendent value to a place having a “legacy of white supremacy” or that I don’t view you as human.

Since you at least took the time to leave semi-constructive comments here, I’ll give you some advice, friend. This stuff isn’t some kind of theoretical game or philosophic exercise; we aren’t debating what the best way to cook chicken is or how the local sports team is going to do next season. This stuff has extremely serious real world applications and it matters who is right about this, most especially if I am correct. I didn’t wake up one morning and decide to start this site and advocate unpleasant truths just for the fun of it or to piss people off. During my college days, I spent time in Belgrade, Serbia studying the inter-ethnic/inter-religious conflict and violence surrounding the breakup of Yugoslavia. America is not magically immune to human nature; this country is only held together by easy credit and a white majority. Well the white majority is dying off and the days of easy credit are coming to an end and there’s absolutely no reason to believe that the Balkanization of America will have a different result than it did in Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia, the most racially homogenous areas experienced the least amount of violence; 97% homogenous Slovenia had only a few hundred deaths. On the other hand, there would probably still be an ongoing nasty, bloody ethnic war to this day in the Croat/Serb/Bosniak three-way split Bosnia if not for the ever present threat of NATO warplanes. California is currently 40% white, 35% Hispanic, 13% Asian, and 7% black. So here’s my advice to you, spend less time trying to be a smartass and more time thinking about what it will mean for you and your family to be living in the future American Bosnia when this whole thing collapses. Groups, like say Hispanic ethnic cleansing squads, aren’t going to care if you’re trying to be satirical or if you believe that you’re on the same bookshelf with them. Stay safe, friend, California is not a place I would want to be in the future.

Colby Malsbury

There’s a movie called ‘Troll’ available on VHS and DVD, natejlee. Perhaps you should rent it.

Hey, Nathan,
Do you remember those natives that were here before your ancestors? Yes, those pesky red-skinned people your ancestors killed. Aren’t they the true Americans? They have legitimate stock here, not you or any European that murdered there way through this land. So, technically, you’re not American either, Ken. You’re an intruder.
Lastly, I just have to ask, how do you reconcile your views with the Ten Commandments which you so piously refer to? I don’t even want to get into the implications of the Ten Commandments within the New Covenant. Just please explain to me how you see yourself fulfilling the Moral Law.

Nil Desperandum

You mean that “Native Americans” have a better claim to America than whites do? Have you informed the press of your bedazzling new discovery and argumentation?

What does informing the media have to do with the argument? Does informing the media validate or invalidate the argument?

Nil Desperandum

Read the articles.

Roberto Reyes Jr

I’m not reading the articles. Can’t you do better than making red herrings and pointing me to articles? Interact with my arguments rather than letting someone else fight your battles.

Nil Desperandum

I’m not pointing you to random articles. They answer your questions. No need to reinvent the wheel.

And when I point you elsewhere on the same website of which I am an author, including an FAQ I penned, don’t be so clueless as to suppose that “someone else” is fighting my battles.

Colby Malsbury

YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!! My trollish escapades were responded to by those responding in good faith!!! That proves something!!!!!!!!!! I ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

natejlee

Colby, I’m glad someone finally understands me.

Roberto Reyes Jr

“I am sick and tired of babying no-good dark-skinned thugs! Statistics have shown over and over again that black people are incapable of lawfulness; if Zimmerman hadn’t done it, Trayvon had it coming anyway. This disgusts me that Piper and Mohler would tacitly and explicitly affirm and support the black lifestyle. And by black lifestyle I mean drug abuse, domestic abuse, crime, robbery, low intellect, promiscuity, family aversion, alcoholism, delinquency, materialism, greed, violence, liberalism, and I could go on but this comment would become an essay LOL I do that sometimes when it comes to talking about the black lifestyle.”
Have you ever heard of the Modernist Controversy? Um…Let me guess, Black people brought in that no good liberal theology into the church. Umm.. How about eugenics? Wait, that was also something black did. How about the legalization of abortion? Umm.. That was a decision made by a majority of black Supreme Court justices, right?
And, since in your grand piety you cite the 9th Commandment, let’s see how consistent your are with it. You say that the black lifestyle is drug abuse, domestic abuse, crime, robbery, low intellect, promiscuity, family aversion, alcoholism, delinquency, materialism, greed,” etc. Are you sure that this is not a major white problem, too? Remember, know, don’t bear false witness! Show me your proof that white people don’t have major problems with all of these sins.

timbucs2

Wow, this is the definition of speaking from a place of white privilege. I usually disagree with Piper about most things, but I thank you for showing me that I can agree with him on this. It makes me sad when racism masquerades as faith, such as in your writing. This is gross.

NathanaelStrickland

Oh look, it’s yet another “ur raciss, ewwww” drive-by comments. Come back when you have something substantive to add.

timbucs2

Well, after reading your faq’s, I realize that your website has nothing substantive to add to a conversation, except for self delusion. I follow Christ, who showed no true preference in His love, and don’t have interest in this small-mindedness. Good luck y’all!

Nil Desperandum

We appreciate your substantive addition.

Nil Desperandum

We’re dying to know what definition of “racism” you’re employing. If you need help articulating it, you’ll be able to find a great list in question #2 here: http://faithandheritage.com/faq/

Jkjljmt_Pqprpstt

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

jackie matijasec

Mr. Strickland, please do all other Christians the courtesy of ceasing to label yourself as one. Clearly, such hate cannot spring from a heart right with God.
A child is dead. That is always a sad day in God’s kingdom.

I hope life is kinder to your family than to the family of young Mr. Martin. I hope you never know the pain of having your child killed by a man wandering the neighborhood with a gun. And then have society tell you it was within that man’s right to chase down and murder your unarmed, defenseless child. I hope it doesn’t take that for you to learn how to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God.

NathanaelStrickland

I agree that we need separate labels, however since I believe what all Christians believed pre-1920 and all conservative Christians believed pre-1970, you’re the one who should change your label.

This is what I am talking about. Irresponsible pastors ignore facts, twist the narrative, and gullible people like you end up talking about a “child”. Perhaps you also believe those 5 year old pictures of Trayvon as a 12 year old represented how he actually looked that night? He was a big high school football player who topped Zimmerman by inches. It is indeed sad that someone is dead, but is even more of a tragedy that pastors are joining into the faux narrative driven by blacks and the liberal media out for white blood.

I assure you that I will deal with my children so that they never become violent thugs, burglars, or drug dealers to begin with. And should I completely and utterly fail as a parent, and my child, like Trayvon, became that person and then attempted to murder an innocent neighborhood guard, I would grieve, but I would also view it as just.

Joel P.

“A child is dead.”

A “child” you say? Last I heard, children weren’t permitted to drive, get married or join the military, all of which Trayvon Martin could legally do as a 17-year-old young man. Travon Marton was not a “child.”

http://thethreews.wordpress.com/ Ken Leonard

” the unhistorical, or at least incomplete, picture of lynching”

Excuse me?

Of everything in this article that calls out for response … WHAT?

I’m prepared to say that it’s a litmus test. If you are capable of defending lynching in any way, then you are deep into racism. Any way you want to try to counter that? Because there is really no context, no sense, and no justification whatsoever that should validate the murder of those accused of crimes just because of their skin color and because some people think that other people shouldn’t be entitled to trial.

As for the suspicion of blacks … You know what’s funny? I keep being told that only liberals view people as part of a group and that that’s a mark of my character flaw. But I keep seeing people defend the policy of distrusting other people because of their skin color.

By “funny,” of course, I mean reprehensible. That people do this while they think that they’re speaking in the name of Christ sickens me.

NathanaelStrickland

Your comment is a great illustration of what I meant by “unhistorical, or at least incomplete” and why pastors should be more careful about what examples they use without adding any context.

According to records kept by that Tuskagee Institute (see above), there were 4,742 lynchings in America from 1882 to 1968. If we add in 1865 to 1881, that number probably doubles to between 9,000 to 10,000 over the hundred years of the most frequent extra-legal white-on-black violence in America. A full 25% of these lynching were of white people and at the very least 70% of the rest were for capital level offenses like rape and murder, so your “just because of their skin color” is completely inaccurate. There were tens of millions of blacks who lived in America throughout this time period compared to several thousand lynchings, so anyone trying to paint the picture of law-abiding blacks living in fear of randomly being the next victim just because of their skin color is entirely wrong.

If you look at the Tuskagee list, you’ll see that at most there were 200 to 100 lynchings per year in its heyday. Do you know how many ten of thousands upon tens of thousands of trials occurred on all levels of the American system in any given year in the time period? Lynching didn’t happen everytime there was a murder or rape, or even everytime a black murdered or raped a white person. Lynching was not due to “people think that other people shouldn’t be entitled to trial” but rather occurred when whites thought that they were very unlikely to get justice in the case. Either at the local and state level during Deconstruction or on appeals to a Liberal Yankee judge on the Federal level. After reading books like the Prostrate State on the Deconstruction period I’m convinced that they were correct about often not getting justice during that time period and I’d guess that if I did research the other time period would show the same in regards to Liberal Yankee Federal judges.

Now if you wanted to argue that, “even if you don’t think you can get justice in a case, you shouldn’t lynch the murderer/rapist” that is a much more reasonable point to want to debate. I think that I can make the Biblical case to the contrary of that, but it wouldn’t be nearly as cut and dry as my case against the broad unhistorical statements in your comment above.

It must be said that, just like my defense of Southern slavery, I do not view lynching as an optimal social arrangement. Even if I proved my case that it was justified in the past and perhaps in some cases today, I would still advocate for a social order where such things were not necessary. It is inaccurate unhistorical attacks by people like you that force me into the position of defending what these things actually were like.

Taking this further, there are PER YEAR 8,000 to 9,000 of black-on-black murders in America, which ironically, is approximately equal to the total number of lynchings over a hundred year period. And yet in a comment above you take issue with blacks being called “thugs” who are criminally inclined. So how does that work? All Southern white people can be condemned as evil racists, but calling blacks out on their violence is hatred – for the same amount of deaths; only the whites took 99 more years to reach that body count and a lot of the blacks’ victims committed no crime. This alone torpedoes your position.

“I keep being told that only liberals view people as part of a group”. That is incorrect, historically all ideologies have viewed people as part of groups, because people are part of groups. This is Biblical. But people are also individuals, so the Christian social order is one where these are balanced and in the correct relation to each other. It is only in the past few decades that “conservatism” has adopted the non-Christian Libertarian philosophy of stripping men of part of their humanity by denying them their group identity.

Enoch Powell

I don’t see anybody defending Lynching. What I see is people trying to clarify the record when it comes to the narrative which lynching often serves.

You’re just another knee jerk soft Marxist Leonard who has been so conditioned by your cultural Marxist conditioning (Education, Media, Government) that you can’t distinguish between someone defending lynching and someone seeking to put it in a more historically accurate narrative.

So, Ken … you must think the US Gov’t. is reprehensible as well. It is their own statistics that remind us that we have need to be suspicious of minorities.

Rendering Reason

Says Ken Leonard: “I keep seeing people defend the policy of distrusting other people because of their skin color. By “funny,” of course, I mean reprehensible.”

Says the Apostle Paul: “A prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true.”

Kevin Alawine

How refreshing to see a young man like Nathaniel with the brains and the nerve to speak out like this. Having grown up when the “Civil Rights” Communists were marching through Southern streets in their violent and intimidating “non-violent” protests, it makes me proud to see young people who haven’t swallowed the blue pill of liberal deception. Keep pushing those red pills of truth Nathaniel! A thousand “atta boys” to you sir!

About

Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you. When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. - Deuteronomy 32:7-8