I will guarantee he won't duplicate that here. He probably won't be here for one and if he is, when the games become intense and the battles more physical I doubt he'll have much of an impact. I'm not a Hudler basher, I just think this team has too much of the same and could use a guy like him as a bargaining chip

I will guarantee he won't duplicate that here. He probably won't be here for one and if he is, when the games become intense and the battles more physical I doubt he'll have much of an impact. I'm not a Hudler basher, I just think this team has too much of the same and could use a guy like him as a bargaining chip

in a way i do agree.

but i'll be BITTERLY dissapointed if he is traded or not resigned. i think he potential outweighs any trade value we could get for him

Honestly, I like Lang. I was just responding to HD's claim that Hudler is defensivly enept, slow and not physical. Lang is all of things as well.

I'd argue that Hudler really isn't any of those things and that it sounds like an outdated scouting report. As someone else has mentined, Hudler actually moves pretty well out there, I see him hustling in the back check and he's never been afraid to get his nose dirty. He doesn't throw himself into people but at 4'8'' and 45#, what would be the point?

I'm not advocating a great increase in ice time for Huds, but I think the real reason he doesn't get more minutes is because he's a rookie. Flip gets slightly more minutes because Flip is better defensively. No biggie and I expect both to get larger roles next season.

Hudler's problem is that his defensive effort isn't there night in and night out, he's not fast, and he's not physical. That's what keeps him off the ice. Until at least one of those things is improved to a better-than-average NHL level he's just not going to get much time in a Babcock system which stresses all three as primary factors to determine position.

You just described Robert Lang. What keeps him on the ice? Oh yeah...he is a veteran. Lang is an offensive player who is shaky defensively, is not fast and is not physical.

Just sayin...

I think he just desribed Schneider too. What's keeping him on the ice?

You just described Robert Lang. What keeps him on the ice? Oh yeah...he is a veteran. Lang is an offensive player who is shaky defensively, is not fast and is not physical.

Just sayin...

You're proving my point, Higgy. Babcock will play a guy like that if he demonstrates consistency and he is at least passable on defense. Rip Lang if you want, but he's not a below-average NHL defender. He's not discernably different from Datsyuk in any defensive regard. He's also a big body, and that sometimes gets understated, as does his skating.

In spite of that, Babcock's going to play Lang because he brings enough offense to the table to offset what the team gives up defensively by having him out there as opposed to a more defensive forward. As soon as Hudler gets to the point where Babcock knows what he's going to get from the kid every night and his non-shooting-the-puck play gets to an NHL average level, he's in.

Right now it's a crap shoot. Sometimes Hudler shines in 8 or 9 minutes of work. Other nights he's completely invisible. Other nights he's a detriment to the team. That kind of buckshot performance isn't going to earn him a more consistent role, nor should it.

Blah.
Boy, funny how one highlight goal and otherwise decent stats have turned Lang into a playoff stud around these parts.

The guy is a center. And when he's on the ice, the other team is more like to score than his team.

If you have any understanding of the role of a center in hockey, then you know he hardly qualifies as successful.

i agree. lang used his body well against a defensemen for a good vocoun goal if i recall and its now leading to him just using his size better in the playoffs? that makes absolutely no sense, why would he use his size more in the playoffs rather then using a lot all the time? i guess lang just doesnt try hard enough

Right now it's a crap shoot. Sometimes Hudler shines in 8 or 9 minutes of work. Other nights he's completely invisible. Other nights he's a detriment to the team. That kind of buckshot performance isn't going to earn him a more consistent role, nor should it.

i disagree. Hudler at most of the time is actually trying pretty well out there along with filppula. Hudler ive watched closely along with filppula and they both work hard behind the scenes (ive been to a few games this year seeing them)... i think hudler is underrated. The kid has 7 goals or 8 goals and 1 assist, like franzen did last year almost. Performance should earn some repspect. Production wise, the kid gets the most out of what he can do with limited time against other teams ok lines. Hes not going to play every shift against another teams 4th line, but at the same time he isnt going to be playing against the other teams first line. Production from the past few games should help some what. Williams hasent done ****, franzen hasent done ****, why dont we just see this damn kid more then 8 minutes a game... its just so annoying

i disagree. Hudler at most of the time is actually trying pretty well out there along with filppula. Hudler ive watched closely along with filppula and they both work hard behind the scenes (ive been to a few games this year seeing them)... i think hudler is underrated. The kid has 7 goals or 8 goals and 1 assist, like franzen did last year almost. Performance should earn some repspect. Production wise, the kid gets the most out of what he can do with limited time against other teams ok lines. Hes not going to play every shift against another teams 4th line, but at the same time he isnt going to be playing against the other teams first line. Production from the past few games should help some what. Williams hasent done ****, franzen hasent done ****, why dont we just see this damn kid more then 8 minutes a game... its just so annoying

Well Franzen is playing with Malts n Draper. I don't know how much of a weapon Hudler would be with those two.

Williams IS down to Hudler minutes, aside from the PP. If that was a one-game thing or if Babs have tired of Willy, remains to be seen.

What can you do, to boost Hudler's IT other than putting him either with Lang or Z-D?

I don't think anyone is painting Lang out to be Mr. Clutch. He just seems that way because we're comparing him to Datsyuk, who has obviously proven absolutely nothing in the postseason, especially offensively with his 3 goals and 12 assists in 45 career playoff games, and no playoff goals since 2001-2. Lang, with his 7 goals and 8 assists in 18 career Detroit playoff games, has.

I don't think anyone is painting Lang out to be Mr. Clutch. He just seems that way because we're comparing him to Datsyuk, who has obviously proven absolutely nothing in the postseason, especially offensively with his 3 goals and 12 assists in 45 career playoff games, and no playoff goals since 2001-2. Lang, with his 7 goals and 8 assists in 18 career Detroit playoff games, has.

If I've caught SMOE's thinking, his point is that if Lang was Datsyuk, we would score less, but also be scored UPON less - winning more games in the process.

I think SMOE hit the nail on the head regarding the perception of Lang as a playoff beast on this board. Lang's play in the playoffs has been impressive because (until last season in Hank's case) Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Shanahan did nothing. So in comparison his performance was lauded as "clutch". In reality Lang has been merely decent, and defensively he's been atrocious in the second season. Lang and Williams were an abomination in their own end during the Oilers series. The thing with Lang is he'll show you a flash of size and strength maybe 3 times during an entire playoff series and we still call him a "big man" and "power presence".

You're proving my point, Higgy. Babcock will play a guy like that if he demonstrates consistency and he is at least passable on defense. Rip Lang if you want, but he's not a below-average NHL defender. He's not discernably different from Datsyuk in any defensive regard. He's also a big body, and that sometimes gets understated, as does his skating.

In spite of that, Babcock's going to play Lang because he brings enough offense to the table to offset what the team gives up defensively by having him out there as opposed to a more defensive forward. As soon as Hudler gets to the point where Babcock knows what he's going to get from the kid every night and his non-shooting-the-puck play gets to an NHL average level, he's in.

Right now it's a crap shoot. Sometimes Hudler shines in 8 or 9 minutes of work. Other nights he's completely invisible. Other nights he's a detriment to the team. That kind of buckshot performance isn't going to earn him a more consistent role, nor should it.

I am not ripping Lang at all. Just drawing comparisons between the 2 players. Other than Lang being bigger and having 10 years experience, he and Hudler are strikingly similar players.

Maybe Hudler will be a late bloomer like Lang was. Langs first 4-5 years in the league were less than impressive as well.

I think SMOE hit the nail on the head regarding the perception of Lang as a playoff beast on this board. Lang's play in the playoffs has been impressive because (until last season in Hank's case) Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Shanahan did nothing. So in comparison his performance was lauded as "clutch". In reality Lang has been merely decent, and defensively he's been atrocious in the second season. Lang and Williams were an abomination in their own end during the Oilers series. The thing with Lang is he'll show you a flash of size and strength maybe 3 times during an entire playoff series and we still call him a "big man" and "power presence".

And don't you think that with more goal support it would actually help Lang produce even more? I hate to be so dramatic, but he's almost doing it by himself up front.

I think the perception of Lang being a playoff performer can somewhat be attributed to the fact that pretty much everybody else has been brutal lately.

Yes, his stats say that he has produced. But I dont recall that many times when I was in awe of his play in the last few playoff runs. He had that great individual effort against Nashville in Game 4 of the 03-04 playoffs. THAT was a fantastic play. And the fact that he played with a broken hand earned him some big time kudos.

But, like SMOE said, its not like this guy turns it up a notch in April and May. It just seems the rest of the team goes down a level or 2.

I think the perception of Lang being a playoff performer can somewhat be attributed to the fact that pretty much everybody else has been brutal lately.

Yes, his stats say that he has produced. But I dont recall that many times when I was in awe of his play in the last few playoff runs. He had that great individual effort against Nashville in Game 4 of the 03-04 playoffs. THAT was a fantastic play. And the fact that he played with a broken hand earned him some big time kudos.

But, like SMOE said, its not like this guy turns it up a notch in April and May. It just seems the rest of the team goes down a level or 2.

I know what you're saying, but 6 points in 6 games and 9 points in 12 games are still pretty good numbers whether or not the other guys are scoring for your 2nd line center.

I'm not trying to paint Lang as someone who is going to win the Conn Smythe if he's on the team and we win the cup, but Lang continues producing in the playoffs, that's what counts.