Here's the story at Entertainment Weekly. They didn't die during the actual filming. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room! +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= How to find old Reading Room discussions.

Here's the story at Entertainment Weekly. They didn't die during the actual filming.

Here's the original source as far as I can tell: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_NEW_ZEALAND_HOBBIT_ANIMAL_DEATHS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT TheOneRing.net Senior Staff IRC Admin and Hall of Fire moderator

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room! +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= How to find old Reading Room discussions.

I agree with DanielB, there has to be a follow up to know exactly how it came to happen and who is to be held responsible. I don't think the problem is how they've been treated in their use in The Hobbit but perhaps in the management of handing them over to a proper farm where they belong. A protest in the Hobbit premier seems to me prematured, no one with compassion wants to see animals been ill treated but let's get our fact straight before trying to disrupt an event.

then it wasn't debunked. I remember it being a heated conversation among people who believed it to be true and people who wanted to have more of the story before they decided what to believe.

In the end, we only get snippets of information whether it be from the 'no animals were harmed' camp or the 'it was terrible abuse' camp and, imo, we aren't ever going to know the full story. Too many people have agendas or reputations to protect and it seems that even the neutral third parties don't do that good a job at monitoring for the public at large.

the final truth is concealed, many people will be considering PJ and everyone involed in the film as horrible, heartless, animal abusing frauds. Well, that's the world for you. But every word you say today Gets twisted 'round some other way And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied

a strong tendency on the forum to treat the accusations as unfounded, perhaps contributing to our friend's recollection that they had been "debunked." I don't think the animal deaths can be laid at PJ's door, and I'm not surprised that parts of such a massive operation would go awry. But I do think we can separate being fans of the film from being partisan for a production company.

And "proper channels" fail all the time, but the news doesn't usually want to cover the dull narrative of every pencil pusher who yawned at a complaint. The properly skeptical response to poorly reported accusations is to wait for more info, not to suspect ex ante that the messenger is looking for five minutes of fame. In this case, more info seems to support the initial accusations.

And thank you to PJ for clearing that up. It's ridiculous that he (more likely his representative) has to spend his/their valuable time in defending themselves, when they have far more important things to be getting on with.

The Hobbit production has always instituted swift and immediate investigations in to any concerns of any kind over the treatment of animals under its care. A prompt and thorough investigation into the recent unsubstantiated allegations by the American organisation, PETA, in to the ‘hobbling’ of a horse during the making of The Hobbit was undertaken. No evidence of such a practice was found to have occurred at any time. Further, the production contacted the owner of the horse concerned who provided the following statement: “I am 100% happy with the return of Shanghai and his condition. In the term that he was leased he was picked up and returned to me two times. On both occasions there was not a mark on him and he was healthy and happy. He has shown no signs of ill-treatment. I would not hesitate in leasing him to the movie again.” To date, the only horse wranglers whose treatment of animals fell below the production’s standard of care seem to be the two wranglers who have chosen to level this new accusation on the eve of the premiere of the first Hobbit film and who were dismissed by the production over a year ago. Reports of their actions are documented in several written statements dating back to October 2011.

The production regrets that PETA has chosen to make such a serious accusation, which has distressed many of the dedicated Kiwis who worked with animals on the films – including trainers, wranglers, care-givers, farm workers and animal health care professionals - without properly vetting the source from which they received this information.

Quote

The producers of The Hobbit take the welfare of all animals very seriously and have always pursued the highest standard of care for animals in their charge. Any incidents that occurred that were brought to their attention as regards to this care were immediately investigated and appropriate action taken. This includes hundreds of thousands of dollars that were spent on upgrading housing and stable facilities in early 2011.

The producers completely reject the accusations that twenty seven animals died due to mistreatment during the making of the films. Extraordinary measures were taken to make sure that animals were not used during action sequences or any other sequence that might create undue stress for the animals involved. Over fifty five per cent of all shots using animals in The Hobbit are in fact computer generated; this includes horses, ponies, rabbits, hedgehogs, birds, deer, elk, mice, wild boars, and wolves.

The American Humane Association (AHA) was on hand to monitor all use of animals by the production. No animals died or were harmed on set during filming.

We regret that some of these accusations by wranglers who were dismissed from the film over a year ago are only now being brought to our attention. We are currently investigating these new allegations and are attempting to speak with all parties involved to establish the truth.

I don't want animals to die or suffer in the making of any film - on or off set (and neither, I'm absolutely certain, do the film makers) - AND I don't want accusations of mistreatment as reported in the press to be accepted as fact without an investigation. We have the Associated Press report of things the wranglers claim happened, and we have the producers' statements here and in several articles today that when problems were reported, steps were taken to correct them. In any case, let the AHA or an officially appointed New Zealand organization continue to make sure that animals used in all forms of entertainment are safe.