Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

That being said I don't think bioware should have to remake the ending I just don't want to buy anything they sell ever again. Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2...

This is kind of what happens when "games journalists" get their takes on stories from eachother instead of looking straight at the subject. The best coverage of this has actually been in Forbes, of all places.

I'm not going into all the details of why ME3's ending is objectively atrocious storytelling, because there are (sane, eloquent) people who have already done so extensively. That said...

So was the objection that audiences wanted things to finish with multiple different outcomes?

Why the fuck would you think that?

The ending was terrible because it came right the fuck out of nowhere, had literally nothing to do with anything that had previously happened in this game or the first two and did not work on any level. It wasn't bad because it was too limited or bittersweet or artsy or complex or erudite or sad. It was just fucking bad, stupid, balls-out incompetent writing that would not be tolerated or defended in any other medium.

I can understand being worried about setting a precedent for games changing due to fan demand, because whatever people are saying gamers frequently are entitled shits, but it is completely unbelievable that we're at that point to begin with. This is a fuck up so unique, so thorough and so utterly stupid that I doubt it will ever be repeated. There are no comparable instances of people known for making stories suddenly, not between installments, but a minute and a half before the end, forgetting every single thing about storytelling.

So it might sound silly to change an ending based on fan demand, but...what the hell else is going to happen when "artists" fail at their jobs so completely after leading people, not just in the marketing, but in 99% of the actual game, to expect better?

You know, i agree with you: Every writer should have the right to end a work of fiction the way he wants to. But i really don't think that BioWare ended ME3 like that because it thought it was a decent ending to the series but because it wants to sell DLCs that way. I mean, just look at the fanbase: A lot of people who said that they hate BioWare for releasing a DLC right at the games release are now practically begging the company to offer them a different ending. It's would be funny if... well, to be honest, it _is_ pretty funny.

I'm surprised that Yahtzee is both missing the point and isn't up in arms over the ending. For someone that has emphasized in the past how games should have good writing and that BioWare was one of the few developers that understood this, he really seems to not get it.

"But I doubt the fanbase of Mass Effect were dismayed because they wanted an appropriate ending to the story. Rather, they wanted some kind of appropriate closure for the many-storied and I would argue unnecessarily lengthy process up to this point."

We wanted both, we got neither. We instead got some mystical and nonsensical ending. Not in themes, but in execution. The themes are easy to get.

PsychedelicDiamond:You know, i agree with you: Every writer should have the right to end a work of fiction the way he wants to. But i really don't think that BioWare ended ME3 like that because it thought it was a decent ending to the series but because it wants to sell DLCs that way. I mean, just look at the fanbase: A lot of people who said that they hate BioWare for releasing a DLC right at the games release are now practically begging the company to offer them a different ending. It's would be funny if... well, to be honest, it _is_ pretty funny.

While I support the choice of the artist, It doesnt take a genius to see that the ending was off. Im still thinking it was EA's fault.

Mass effect 3's ending is architecture. After an architect's initial job is done he no longer yields power over the building. Any changes to it are at the whim of the owners and though he may have had a fantastic idea, if they want it done different it will be done different. The users are unhappy in this situation, but the designers are in a situation where they can change it as they see fit. It's not nice no, but I support it regardless. If my fire exits were designed with a 3 foot jump to the fire doors, I would need to redesign the building or have very few people use it again.

"Curing the Krogan Genophage implies that the Krogan Rebellions would start again"

No, they wouldn't because Wrex and Eve survived on my playthrough and they were determined to guide the krogan along a different path. Similarly, the geth and quarians started to get along and help each other, undermining the point that synthetics will inevitably fight organics.

But I guess paying attention to differences between playthroughs would require you to spend more than half a week thinking about it. And that requires way more effort than I've come to expect from you.

None of your choices mattered in the ME series. The ones you made in ME1 just got you an email in ME2. An you would have to be rushing the ME2 game to kill your team anyway. Although what team mate survived the mission didnt even matter to ME3. Even saving/killing the rachni queen in ME1 didnt matter cos there is still one in ME3 regardless. So stop bitching people. Its not the amazing game you thought it was. I completed ME1 and ME2 5 times each and ME3 twice only because not one choice you make matters in all three games matter. Im not talking about the ending, just in general.

soren7550:I'm surprised that Yahtzee is both missing the point and isn't up in arms over the ending. For someone that has emphasized in the past how games should have good writing and that BioWare was one of the few developers that understood this, he really seems to not get it.

You guys are sure it's Yahtzee (and MovieBob, and Devin Faraci, and Ben Kuchera from PA Report and every other journalist that has said similar things recently) that's missing the point, and not yourselves?

Saying that games should have good writing doesn't mean we should pressure a company to change a game's ending that is perceived as bad. Even excellent writers do write bad books sometimes. But there's a certain level of respect for what the author has done, even if it's bad, that no one starts demanding they change something. Demanding changes is not respecting the writing, good or bad.

I think you've done a lot more to think about "What Kind of Story is Mass Effect" than the ending demonstrates, and that's the issue. It also unfortunately muddles things a bit.

On the one hand, I completely agree that an author (or team thereof) should get to decide how the story ends. The audience must then accept that ending as "real" and make of it what they will. It's important to giving a story consequence -- and consequences aren't consequences if you can get out of the ones you don't like.

On the other hand, this ending shows signs of being poorly handled. It is inconsistent with itself, and thus confuses the fans. Plenty want to accept it... but they're not sure how, because it's not clear what the ending did. And there's the question of choices mattering or not... to which I'd have to say you're right -- you can't craft an ending for every version of Shepard out there -- except that this ending doesn't really seem to follow any version of Shepard we've been shown.

If JK Rowling had decided to kill Harry Potter, there would have been angry people... but they'd just have to get over it. That's the artist making an artistic decision, and it is paramount that decisions like that stand.

If, however, JK Rowling had decided to suddenly have Tom Bombadil show up and smite Lord Voldemort at the end, and that was it? I think the fans would be justified in believing that something had gone wrong with the artistic process, and that this ending isn't even what the artists themselves would have preferred.

For better or worse, the content of the ending must stand. I hope it does. The delivery of the ending, though, is what needs a bit more finesse, and I think there's plenty of room for that while maintaining artistic integrity.

Sandytimeman:Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2.

Freedom has a price. It was both disappointing and awesome. Would have hated a "Wow we beat the reapers and everyone is happy" ending. I guess they didnt want a generic Paragon/Renegade ending. But seems everyone did. I sold my copy and have zero interest in any new ending.

Mausenheimmer:"Curing the Krogan Genophage implies that the Krogan Rebellions would start again"

No, they wouldn't because Wrex and Eve survived on my playthrough and they were determined to guide the krogan along a different path. Similarly, the geth and quarians started to get along and help each other, undermining the point that synthetics will inevitably fight organics.

But I guess paying attention to differences between playthroughs would require you to spend more than half a week thinking about it. And that requires way more effort than I've come to expect from you.

Perhaps in his playthrough Wrex, or Eve, or both of them had died, so the Rebellions would start again. And perhaps he didn't manage to get peace between the Quarians and Geth.

While I more or less disagree with the ending of ME3, I agree with you - I can live with the ending and I don't want them to change it, but I certainly do want an epilogue, which is what was missing from ME3 for whatever reason. I mean you can't do a whole sodding trilogy and not give any kind of closure at all. If the epilogue says that everyone died and everythings fucked and everything sucks(though I went with Synthesis which shouldn't really bring that kind of result, atleast not in the long run, but my own choice on the matter is hardly the point here), I'd be fine with that, provided they describe how exactly said things happen, what specifically happens to the characters I know, et cetera, just as long as I get closure. That's where BioWare failed, and that's the only thing I think they absolutely should reconsider (I honestly see no reason why they didn't include some sort of an epilogue in ME3, it just makes no sense whatsoever).

In the end, ME3 was brilliantly composed and executed, save for the end where they just failed at the execution part(but not the composition, while I do disagree with it, it is their own, they just could've executed it sooo much better).

Dastardly:On the one hand, I completely agree that an author (or team thereof) should get to decide how the story ends. The audience must then accept that ending as "real" and make of it what they will. It's important to giving a story consequence -- and consequences aren't consequences if you can get out of the ones you don't like.

On the other hand, this ending shows signs of being poorly handled. It is inconsistent with itself, and thus confuses the fans. Plenty want to accept it... but they're not sure how, because it's not clear what the ending did. And there's the question of choices mattering or not... to which I'd have to say you're right -- you can't craft an ending for every version of Shepard out there -- except that this ending doesn't really seem to follow any version of Shepard we've been shown.

If JK Rowling had decided to kill Harry Potter, there would have been angry people... but they'd just have to get over it. That's the artist making an artistic decision, and it is paramount that decisions like that stand.

If, however, JK Rowling had decided to suddenly have Tom Bombadil show up and smite Lord Voldemort at the end, and that was it? I think the fans would be justified in believing that something had gone wrong with the artistic process, and that this ending isn't even what the artists themselves would have preferred.

For better or worse, the content of the ending must stand. I hope it does. The delivery of the ending, though, is what needs a bit more finesse, and I think there's plenty of room for that while maintaining artistic integrity.

On the other hand, this ending shows signs of being poorly handled. It is inconsistent with itself, and thus confuses the fans. Plenty want to accept it... but they're not sure how, because it's not clear what the ending did. And there's the question of choices mattering or not... to which I'd have to say you're right -- you can't craft an ending for every version of Shepard out there -- except that this ending doesn't really seem to follow any version of Shepard we've been shown.

Yes, it was badly executed, and feels rushed. But it's not the only bad ending out there. I think maybe Bioware could clarify the ending and make it work better, but not change the ending that's already out there (like it, or not). Trying to change it will disappoint a lot of people anyway.

So was the objection that audiences wanted things to finish with multiple different outcomes? I can't support them on that.

I think that's a fair objection considering how frequently BioWare employees working on the game said "there will be multiple endings based on your choices, everyone will not get the same ending" and then gave us the complete opposite: everyone gets the same ending where their choices mean jack shit. That's called lying BioWare, and it's not nice.

Furthermore, it's disgusting that they took out Javik, who is just as important to the plot as any of the other squadmates you pick up in the game as he provides tons of extremely insightful backstory and opinions on the whole situation, so they could sell him for an extra $10. Play the game without him. Then go look up videos of conversations with him on YouTube. He's full of great lines, different thoughts on things that you don't get from any other squad member, and is full of foreshadowing as well. He was CLEARLY intended to be part of the main game from the start and then took him out to make us pay more money.

That, and the screen in the ending that says "Thanks for playing, be sure to look out for and buy DLC!". That's atrocious. The game's ending is asking me to spend more money! Is nothing fucking sacred to you in games, EA?! Why not just have Shepard get e-mails all the time reminding him that From Ashes is available for 800 MS Points as well, you scum-sucking swine?!

SonOfVoorhees:None of your choices mattered in the ME series. The ones you made in ME1 just got you an email in ME2. An you would have to be rushing the ME2 game to kill your team anyway. Although what team mate survived the mission didnt even matter to ME3. Even saving/killing the rachni queen in ME1 didnt matter cos there is still one in ME3 regardless. So stop bitching people. Its not the amazing game you thought it was. I completed ME1 and ME2 5 times each and ME3 twice only because not one choice you make matters in all three games matter. Im not talking about the ending, just in general.

ME1 and 2 are still amazing games. It's not the fault of those two games that BioWare's approach to so many choices in ME3 was "This choice doesn't matter, that choice doesn't matter, that one doesn't matter either..."

The only choices that didn't get fucked up the ass by ME3 are the ones regarding the genophage. So many different outcomes for the genophage depending on what you did in the first two games. That's the kind of ending we were promised, but not the kind of ending we got.

soren7550:I'm surprised that Yahtzee is both missing the point and isn't up in arms over the ending. For someone that has emphasized in the past how games should have good writing and that BioWare was one of the few developers that understood this, he really seems to not get it.

You guys are sure it's Yahtzee (and MovieBob, and Devin Faraci, and Ben Kuchera from PA Report and every other journalist that has said similar things recently) that's missing the point, and not yourselves?

Saying that games should have good writing doesn't mean we should pressure a company to change a game's ending that is perceived as bad. Even excellent writers do write bad books sometimes. But there's a certain level of respect for what the author has done, even if it's bad, that no one starts demanding they change something. Demanding changes is not respecting the writing, good or bad.

Yes. I am certain it is them missing the point and not myself. Because they are making assumptions about my views. I am not making assumptions about theirs. Ergo, the 'point' is what my views are. I believe I know those better then they do.

People are free to love the endings. I don't fault them for it. I don't mind depressing endings - I loved the ending to Dead Island where [spoilers] that nice mechanics girl gets raped, berated, becomes manic depressive then dies after ceasing to care about her life[/spoiler] simply because it was so dark and shocking in the games industry where we only seem to get happy endings. But that ending was fitting for the genre of that game, fitting for the story told, and fitting for the characters involved. Mass Effect 3's endings was none of these things, just a lazy Deus Ex Machina as it is literally defined in the last 10 minutes.

Respect is a two way street. If you want respect for your work, respect my intelligence. I don't think I have a -right- to change the gamings end, I would -like- to. Bioware has every right to ignore the shit out of me and complainers like me and more power to them as a business and an artist. I have every right not to purchase their products in the future out of disatisfaction, seek a refund (as many did in the initial 2 weeks, and recieved them I might add, even from Origin), and to pressure my friends and peers not to buy their games. Yet when I exercise my rights, I'm "immature" and "spiteful" whereas Bioware is "artistic" when they exercise theirs.

So was the objection that audiences wanted things to finish with multiple different outcomes? I can't support them on that

If the devs can't handle it, they probably shouldn't have have promised it.

Oh, something I just thought of, ever consider that maybe all these devs that are trying to support bioware are really just terrified this could happen to them, and are trying to cover their own as in the future, in case they fuck up an ending.

The series will effectively have no ending, just a big gap with the words "Audience: Fill In Your Preferred Ending Here".

Tried that 2 weeks ago in this very forum,but that message didn't come across as clearly as you described it,so ultimately it failed.

Taking this as the series' theme, the ending of ME3 makes sense. In fact, it would make even more sense if...

It does make sense but the question brought up in the ending didn't have any build up to it.Yes it was tackled with the geth,but from that point on it's just referred by characters,not brought in as the major narrative focus.And those grim ending you suggested would still be better than what we got.

Yes, it would set a precedent because this has never happened before, has it? This will most assuredly be the first time ever that an artist has changed their work due to fan pressure. Nope, this has never happened before and everything is on the line now!

I'm glad you tried to understand Yahtzee, but you didn't at all. And yes, there are people who know better than us, but they didn't write that ending, nor did they write this article. Thanks for trying anyway.

The whole problem with the whole "writers who don't have dicks for heads will be forced to change their endings for the dickheads" is the fact that, you know...

NOT EVERYONE BUT ARTISTS ARE DICKHEADS.

There are tons of very intelligent people out there who just don't write books, or paint pictures, or design games, or whatever. But that doesn't automatically mean that somehow their views on those subjects are invalid.

See, this gets into tricky territory, because a large number of people out there ARE dickheads, I mean, lets be honest here. But we shouldn't let the silliness of some (or even most) people automatically invalidate those that have legitimate ideas or complaints.

And a number of the complaints about the Mass Effect ending are legitimate, intelligent, carefully researched, etc.

Again, as I have stated in previous posts, calling an artists work "sacred" and "totally their own" is extremely silly. I can't even begin to go into all the problems involved with that... Aiiieee tcha. Someone's work is never truly their own, and you know what? THAT IS AWESOME. Not a tragedy. Sorry guys. Figure it out for yourselves.

If someone does something poorly I think it is perfectly fine for an audience to call them out on their bullshit. If the chance is presented to correct said bullshit, than an artist should listen to the intelligent people and consider the option.

If they decide not to, whatever, that's their choice. But if they decide to change it that's hardly a bad thing. More a good thing really.

Fwee:WAaaaaaah~!Tired of all the bitching and attacking anyone who tries to offer some perspective.Write your own fanfiction.Kill yourself.

With you on this. Thing is people go on about owning the characters, but want Bioware to TELL them what happened to them? I know what happened to Grunt and Garrus, i have my imagination and whatever Bioware says happened to them isnt what i may think did happen. For all we know Grunt might give up war and open a flower shop on earth. Would people like that? I just think it just opens Bioware up for more bitching. I admire the passion the fans have, its an amazing universe that i hope will spawn other games. But they need to grow up and stop acting like 3 year olds. If this is the most disappointing thing they have ever faced in their life then HELLO wait until you live life.

Sandytimeman:Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2.

Freedom has a price. It was both disappointing and awesome. Would have hated a "Wow we beat the reapers and everyone is happy" ending. I guess they didn't want a generic Paragon/Renegade ending. But seems everyone did. I sold my copy and have zero interest in any new ending.

But you didn't get freedom, you actually just fucked the galaxy over and killed everyone.

Furthermore, it's disgusting that they took out Javik, who is just as important to the plot as any of the other squadmates you pick up in the game as he provides tons of extremely insightful backstory and opinions on the whole situation, so they could sell him for an extra $10. Play the game without him. Then go look up videos of conversations with him on YouTube. He's full of great lines, different thoughts on things that you don't get from any other squad member, and is full of foreshadowing as well. He was CLEARLY intended to be part of the main game from the start and then took him out to make us pay more money.