Bad News For Middle Class America: IRS Says Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan

I've been living under Romney care for six or seven years and the premiums just go up up up. Currently the dead f'ing last cheapest plan is $12,000 per family. I know, I happen to own one.

The scary part of this article is that the sources is not CATO, or Heritage Foundation, or AFP etc., but from the government itself who has a profound interest in understating the number.

UPDATE: I couldn't find the 20K figure in the IRS publication (it 70 pages long). Did anyone else see it? I want to do a Facebook post, but I want the source either from the Govt or a liberal news source for credibility sake.

We must show respect for the dead, lest they out vote us. I have a plan. The Mark Twain plan!

At $20,000 for free health care, I was mistaken. I thought our federal government calculated how much per taxpayer to provide free health care for everybody. I thought it only covered the living.

Now you mention the dead! Including the dead in health care services will raise the price on those still living. Yet, you cite Massachusetts is discounting health care down to the bones @ $12,000. Even for the dead last! ... Meaning freshest?! [A puzzlement]

Well, it is all together confusing to me. Let me present my plan to make things seem fair... Not fair. Seem fair. How about we bury the dead deeper than Twain deep... One fathom burial depth seemed respectful centuries gone by. Times have changed. Now us living are told we are getting free health care for only $20,000. What about the scandalous Mass rate slasher?! Massachusetts offers a low balling rate slasher free health care at a mere $12,000. I thought it was the same service... Now, hear tell they are including the dead. I ain't standing for it!

Might we legislate the dead must be buried respectfully at Mark Twain (two fathoms)? The US government might edge Massachusetts out of the free health care market.

In conclusion, the United States of America must regulate... control those wildcatters. In the 'Land of the Free' ... things ought to be just so.

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Disclaimer:Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul ☑

A few points come up when applying logic to yours and current arguments.

$20,000 for free health care is a bargain. That's only about $20/month over 40 years.

Why not include the dead? Get those lazy people to pay their fair share. They contributed (via apathy) to the current problems so they should have to pay too. I'm thinking the cost to the living will drop.. or am I wrong?

If they can't pay because they have no funds left, then charge admission for their visits.

And regarding them out-voting us. Let's see 'em try. I'd love to see the logistics of that operation.

...the name Obamacare. It makes it too easy to pin the blame on one person when many politicians are to blame. I much prefer to call it the "Affordable" Care Act, because it's given name condemns it so much more fully. Calling it "Obamacare" just gives a description of a man who helped push it through. Call it the "Affordable" Care Act and its very name becomes a testament to government failure to make goods and services cheaper for the average American.

I currently pay $149/mo for health insurance (up 50% in the last 4 years I will add)
and starting next year, if I buy one of their approved health insurance plans I will have to pay $536/mo As if the Insurance companies weren't rich enough.

That point was where it became clear that proposed Congressional bills were clearly unconstitutional. Few bills had to be read more than a few pages. Where upon an unconstitutional passage was noted & objection raised. Ron Paul voted no on unconstitutional bills.

and more lies) but I would be willing to bet my family's share of the Obamacare bill that not one Congressman read the bill through. (though Tom Coburn threatened to read it on the floor) IF they don't read the bill, they are failing in their duties and should be removed from office. It's that simple!

—

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. LewisLove won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

especially in the Senate, where the members are free to filibuster, thus gaining time for real debate. The Junior Senator from Oklahoma should have followed through on his threat, thereby making it a promise.

—

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. LewisLove won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Had someone the intestinal fortitude to filibuster, or even simply read the bill on the floor. Alas and alack, no one did.

—

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. LewisLove won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

We still needed someone in the Senate to do likewise. Maybe Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky will follow his father's lead...

—

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. LewisLove won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

But if government decides for you, the result is not necessarily what you want. If you can't afford $20,000 for health insurance and don't have it provided for you by your employer, then you must give up something else in order to pay for what the government mandates. In some, if not many cases, that will be something more basic like food and shelter.

Professor Charles A. Hall says we have reached the point in history where we can as a society no longer afford luxuries, higher education and advanced health care, which I suppose is why the prices of these are advancing faster than our ability to pay. He explains that the underlying cause of this result is the amount of energy that must be expended to acquire oil has passed the point where it doesn't leave enough to fuel an economy that includes what we have come to expect it will provide for us.

There is a dirty little secret about energy production. It is called compound growth of the amount of energy that must be expended to acquire energy. Any rate of growth in this cost produces a doubling period. At a 3% growth rate (the actual experienced rate of growth in cost to acquire oil) the doubling period is 23.3 years; obviously the energy expended to acquire energy can't exceed the energy acquired. We are still producing oil, but we each year are spending more and more energy to acquire it, leaving less to fuel the economy. For part of the past, the production increased fast enough to both pay the increased cost and leaving enough to keep the economy expanding. But now, we are in the steeper part of the "hockey stick" cost growth curve and unfortunately total production has leveled out, no longer leaving enough energy from oil to fuel an expanding economy.

Let me describe this in terms of a clock. Assume 12:00 is the point we spend 100 barrels of oil to acquire 100 barrels of oil, or 100% cost; at 11:00 the cost will be 50%; at 10:00 the cost will be 25%; at 9:00 the cost will be 12.5%; at 8:00 the cost was 6.25%; at 7:00 the cost was 3.125%. Skip back to 5:30 and the cost was only 1%. This is how compound growth works. A constant rate of growth keeps yielding a greater and greater absolute increased amount as time progresses.

For oil, in 1930 the cost was 1% and it is doubling every 23.3 years on average, a 3% rate of increase in cost. In 2012 we were at 11%. It takes 23.3 years on average for the clock to advance to the next number. In 2017 we should be at 9:00 (12.5% cost); in 2040 we should be at 10:00 (25% cost); in 2064 we should be at 11:00 (50% cost); and finally in 2087 we will be at 12:00 (100% cost). Of course our industrial economy will collapse long before we reach 100%.

Each fossil fuel has its own cost curve, each with a compound rate of growth that eventually makes the fuel too expensive to acquire. Oil is the most critical to our immediate future. Any "renewable" substitute must be able to produce a greater return on the energy expended to acquire it than we now have from oil in order for it to adequately substitute for oil. No know alternative comes close when all acquisition costs are considered.

The point in relationship to Obamacare is that it is fundamentally impossible. It simply forces people to buy something they can't afford with the consequence that they must give up something even more important to their survival. As time passes, this will become even more critical because the economy has entered long term contraction for want of sufficient energy to fuel it, and life will progressively become more difficult.

In my view our government has become the biggest impediment to our very survival.

—

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

The income tax is one that's near and dear to my heart. And has been since 2000.

Knowing WHO actually is liable for the tax and under what circumstances is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL! Because as you see here, this "penalty/tax" is going to be imposed by the filing of a TAX RETURN!

I've posted so many times on the topic of income tax going back to 2007 on this board that is pains me to see, even to this day, the average guy "thinking" they owe this tax when in reality it has nothing to do with the average guy earning his own domestic source money!

So, here are a bunch of my previous posts about the topic. Because if we want to STOP paying a tax we don't owe and have it properly applied to those who do, they we wouldn't be worrying about this OBAMACARE tax/penalty bull!

I care deeply about resolving the Income tax issue because once we can all resolve the "who owes the tax and under what circumstances" issue, then we can address putting the government back into its Constitutional box!

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Here's some of the book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"
Submitted by cdistasio on Mon, 01/07/2013 - 00:30. Permalink

Here you go. Some of the book i am talking about with sample pages: Enjoy....

2 key cases in 1916 already confirm the income tax as ONLY an excise tax. They were the Brushaber case and Stanton case.

In fact, the US Supreme Court in the Brushaber case in 1916 dealt with the 16th amendment and stated that the 16 amendment was drawn up for the purpose of doing away with the CONFUSION of how an income tax must be laid by congress. And it was said it could ONLY be applied as an excise tax. That's it.

Since it's an excise, it really has nothing to do with the average american earning his/her own domestic source monies and still rakes in a lot of revenue for the federal government when actually applied properly and as written in USC 26. So the government will still receive taxes when properly enforced upon those whom it applies.

So, arguing the ratification of the 16th is such a moot point that it's not even worth discussing since the amendment did NOT change congress's taxing power to new subjects. Simple as that!

Ill chime in again with my 2 cents on this topic. I scream it from the rooftops... ALL THE INCOME TAX IS, IS JUST AN EXCISE TAX!!!

That's it. It's an excise. And ONLY can be laid as an Excise. The law painfully points this out. It gives you the when, who, how one becomes liable and here's a hint: It's NOT the average guy living and working in the private sector earning his/her own domestic source money! (Albeit the law does this in a very confusing and obfuscating way, INTENTIONALLY!)

Simple. Example: Johnny smith who works for company X claims joey Johnson who wants a job at company X is required to sign a W4 form to get the job. Except that's NOT TRUE and Johnny Smith has NEVER READ ONE WORD of the law to even determine WHO is supposed to use that federal tax form and under what circumstances. Also, Johnny smith has NO idea that the income tax is an excise and doubly has no idea as to what an excise even is! Johnny smith is ONLY doing what he was told to do by the company who he works for and ALSO of which nobody there has actually ever read the law to determine the lawful and proper use of the forms W4 and/or W9. Hence lots and lots of ignorant people doing absolutely insane things like FORCING SOMEONE TO SIGN A W4 OR W9 (depending on the circumstances) UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY NO LESS to make a living and get paid! LAWFULLY!

The income tax is a legitimate tax, and W-4's and W-9's do have a specific purpose for each respective form, but that purpose HAS NOTHING to do with mostly all Americans.

So, since the income tax is an excise, and has NOTHING to do with what im doing anyway, WHY WOULD I WANT in effect, a sales tax???? Odd, odd unless you actually know there is a FRAUD SO GIGANTIC that it practically DWARFS All frauds before it! And that would be the MISAPPLICATION OF THE INCOME TAX! Let me rephrase that, the CRIMINAL misapplication of the income tax upon most people who don't have any clue as to who it actually really applies to because they were TOLD certain things and decided NEVER to verify if those CERTAIN things were ACTUALLY VALID and or TRUE!

all the talk about the income tax being the most sinister tax, yada yada yada, doesn't change the fact of what it is... an EXCISE.

So, if we ALL want to solve the government spending problems. Let's all learn what the income tax is, what it isn't, who it applies to and under what circumstances by reading the actual statutes and regulations and then once most people realize that they have been duped into signing W4's and W9's when in reality those forms, although legitimate for other purposes, had nothing to do with the average American, then we will be able to SOLVE the Federal Reserve issue, the money spending issue and a lot of the Liberty issue all with one stone!

Again, the BEST resource for this would be Dave Champion's book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"

I'm thinking about starting a thread dedicated to the topic of what the income tax actually is. Also, as a side note, the ObamaCare bull will be enforced through the Income tax, what a coinkidink!!! Better learn who it actually applies to.

I say it over and over and over... The Best book on the topic no doubt is Dave Champion's book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"

It's really the best read i've ever had about the reality of WHAT THE INCOME TAX IS... Which is an "Indirect Excise"...

Long story short...

1. Income Tax is an Excise Tax
2. 16th Amendment is a moot point
3. 16th Amendment conferred NO NEW POWER OF TAXATION
4. The Stanton v baltic mining Case (US Supreme 1916) says its an indirect tax
5. US Supremes say no "Direct tax without apportionment can be laid"
6. People "THINK" the 16th amendment does away w/ apportionment for direct tax called income tax
7. People who think that ARE WRONG!!!
8. Average American has NO INCOME TAX LIABILITY when living and working in any one of the 50 States of the union in the private sector earning his / her own money.
9. Tax professionals "DONT READ THE LAW"
10. Tax professionals read "IRS publications and Pamphlets"
11. IRS publications and pamphlets are NOT to be used to sustain a position (Section 4.10.7.2.8 IRS Manual)

JUST READ Dave Champion's book "income tax: shattering the myths"
Once you are done reading that, then tell me all about the income tax again!!!

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THIS IS NOT GOOD!!!!! Here's Why........
Submitted by cdistasio on Sun, 09/02/2012 - 10:09. Permalink

First off, as I've said time and time again, the Income Tax is an Excise tax. Period! The average guy has NO income tax liability for his domestic source money earned in any one of the 50 states of the union.

The 16th Amendment is a MOOT point because ALL IT DID WAS TO CONFIRM CONGRESS'S TAXING POWER CONCERNING INCOMES AS AN EXCISE TAX!!!!! You can repeal that dastardly amendment that created all this confusion all you want, IT STILL DOESN'T CHANGE CONGRESS'S TAXING POWERS CONCERNING "INCOME"! Although, i will admit, it has done wonders in confusing people as to the TRUE nature of the income tax.

The 16th Amendment DID NOT CREATE A NEW TAXING POWER!!!!!!!! Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT IS UBER IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND!!!

The Court said specifically in the Stanton v. Baltic Mining case (1916) case the following:

"it manifestly disregards the fact that by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged,"

And the case before that which was the Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad case (1916) which stated:

" This must be unless it can be said that although the Constitution, as a result of the Amendment, in express terms excludes the criterion of source of income, that criterion yet remains for the purpose of destroying the classifications of the Constitution by taking an excise out of the class to which it belongs and transferring it to a class in which it cannot be placed consistently with the requirements of the Constitution. Indeed, from another point of view, the Amendment demonstrates that no such purpose was intended, and on the contrary shows that it was drawn with the object of maintaining the limitations of the Constitution and harmonizing their operation."

The VAT or FAIR TAX is a completely and utter waste of a joke.

The Establishment WANTS you to accept a "Fair Tax" or "VAT".

The reality is, neither a "fair tax" or a "vat" can be imposed on anyone or anything no matter the circumstances who sells something for the SAME EXACT REASONS that MOST Americans DO NOT HAVE ANY Income Tax liability.

Congress does NOT OWN "We The People". Although they do act like they do. That's obviously evident. The "National Sales Tax" would fall under the same restrictions the "Income Tax" does but most people actually believe, with NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that "pay your fair share" nonsense that anyone who earns money no matter the circumstance, just owes an income tax. NOT TRUE! Never was, never will be.

Now the Power Elite are pulling a bait and switch. They want YOU to believe that you won't have to pay an income tax anymore and that this national sales tax will be a great replacement. They are just switching from one fraud to another. What the Power Elite DIDN'T TELL YOU was MOST PEOPLE NEVER OWED A DIME IN INCOME TAX in the first place. Most people will fall for this because most people are aggravated with income tax. Income Tax and a National sales tax are NOT necessary for government to function at it's intended limited role.

READ "Income Tax: Shattering the Myth's" by Dave Champion. It's the ONLY book of it's kind all about the Income Tax and WHO is actually liable for it and under what circumstances! Excellent read.

I believe in the Republic and it's Limited Government structure.

But, THAT'S WHAT'S Going to happen! Because ANYONE, and I mean Anyone who buys this crap is gonna be caught hook, line and sinker right into the TRAP that was intended for them in the first place. The trap of ignorance as to the TRUE LIMITED NATURE OF Congress's taxing powers!!!

LEARNING THE TRUTH AS TO WHY MOST HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TAX WILL PUT AN END TO THIS NON-SENSE!!!! ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!

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WE NEED TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT INCOME TAX!!!
Submitted by cdistasio on Sat, 07/28/2012 - 12:37. Permalink

WE need to learn the truth about the income tax NOW!!!! None of this Federal Reserve crap is possible unless the Fed Govt has ability to pay interest on debt it continues to borrow. Without the income tax being MISAPPLIED as it is today, the govt wouldn't be able to get away with all this debt non-sense because there would be no way it could raise the revenue necessary to pay interest payments on the debt it now has.

Also, the govt wouldn't be able to just ACCESS all of us like a resource.

WE DON'T NEED to be slaves to a tax anymore.... which is ONE MAJOR way these power govt officials take ownership of us....

WE NEED TO STAND UP TO THIS CRAP!!!! And I MEAN NOW!!! No better time than the present....

Tell the establishment to F' Off by NOT paying a tax MOSTLY EVERYONE NEVER OWED ANYWAY!!!

Read Dave Champion's Book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"... it's the greatest resource I've ever read on the topic.... very very good book.... Detailed as all hell....

If we can put an end to the income tax fraud, IMAGINE what else we can do!!!

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And at what point does it become slavery?????!!!!!
Submitted by cdistasio on Sun, 07/15/2012 - 09:10. Permalink

People, you have to understand that there is NOTHING patriotic about the income tax or paying it. It's intended to keep you paying interest on a debt that can NEVER BE PAID!!!!

So the question is, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU CONSIDER IT SLAVERY??!!! 60%, 75%, 98%, WHAT.... WHAT POINT IS IT SLAVERY IN YOUR MINDS?????? What percentage of a slave do you want to be before you realize it's slavery????

The bankers love that you do what you are told when it comes to income tax. That's how their fraud of central banks continue to deprive you of your Liberty, by making you work harder and harder just to pay off interest on a debt that WILL NEVER BE PAID!!!!!

Also, the income tax is an Excise Tax. The average american HAS NO INCOME TAX LIABILITY! It's technically a very narrow limited tax!

Go to www.incometaxtruth.com and get a copy of what I think is the best book EVER written on the subject of what the income tax actually is, what the law ACTUALLY says versus what you THINK it says and most importantly, WHAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!!

I often tell people, that signing a W-4 Form, which is a Federal Tax Form, to "get a job" is something that they should refrain from! But then im told, "I won't get hired if I don't". And that's EXACTLY my point, VERY VERY FEW are willing to do something about the fraud to STOP IT! The average guy IS NOT the guy in Law (Title 26, USC) who's required to sign that form to get a job. In fact, that form HAS ZERO to do with the average guy in the first place.

Also, this Obama Care crap works off the income tax as well. You will be fined through the payment of the income tax for not having health insurance! Don't you get it yet???

I ABSOLUTELY HATE WHEN PEOPLE SAY "BUT WE HAVE TO PAY OUR TAXES, HOW WILL OUR GOVERNMENT RUN???" That is such a ridiculously stupid statement. It has carries NOOOOOOOOOOO evidence about who is actually liable for the tax and under what circumstances and also is an absolute cop out since almost anybody who pays an income tax has no clue as to who actually owes it anyway under the Law.

Ill leave at this, at what point do you consider yourself a slave to government?????

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Income Tax is an INDIRECT TAX!!!
Submitted by cdistasio on Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:00. Permalink

The 16th amendment is a moot point. All it did was to confirm Congress' taxing power concerning income tax as an indirect tax!

Income Tax is an INDIRECT tax. It is NOT a direct tax as others here have suggested. 2 US Supreme Court Cases in 1916 settled this very question. They are:

BRUSHABER v. UNION PACIFIC R. CO., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)

AND

STANTON v. BALTIC MINING CO, 240 U.S. 103 (1916)

The Court stated in the Brushaber case the following:

"Moreover, in addition, the conclusion reached in the Pollock Case did not in any degree involve holding that income taxes generically and necessarily came within the class [240 U.S. 1, 17] of direct taxes on property, but, on the contrary, recognized the fact that taxation on income was in its nature an excise entitled to be enforced as such unless and until it was concluded that to enforce it would amount to accomplishing the result which the requirement as to apportionment of direct taxation was adopted to prevent"

OK, Now, Can ANYBODY here tell me how INCOME TAX is a DIRECT TAX???!!!

And as if that was NOT enough, in the same year (1916)the Court said specifically in the Stanton case the following:

" it manifestly disregards the fact that by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged, "

Ok, here the court AGAIN, states the obvious, that the Income Tax IS, I REPEAT, IS an INDIRECT TAX!

And as a side note, most tax professionals do NOT read the law to determine who is liable for the tax. Most tax professionals read IRS publications and just ASSUME anyone who makes money now owes an Income Tax.

IRS Publications are sort of like "New Letters" put out by the IRS to the tax industry, including mostly ALL CPA's and Tax "Professionals". The IRS has a manual available on their website which any one can go read. Here's what THEIR OWN manual says about their own publications:

4.10.7.2.8 (01-01-2006)
IRS Publications

"IRS Publications explain the law in plain language for taxpayers and their advisors. They typically highlight changes in the law, provide examples illustrating Service positions, and include worksheets. Publications are nonbinding on the Service and do not necessarily cover all positions for a given issue. While a good source of general information, publications should not be cited to sustain a position."

The IRS has plainly stated in their OWN manual that Publications are NOT to be cited to sustain positions about the LAW even though that is what all tax professionals do anyway. This is because IRS publications and pamphlets are NOT the law. The IRS has already vindicated themselves from people who WRONGLY use publications like law.

So here's the deal. An excise tax is a tax imposed certain types of privilege or activities related to a privilege. So is EVERYONE who makes a living exercising a privilege to do so, NO!!! NO NO NO NO NO!!! You have a right to make a living, not a privilege!! If the Income tax, being an Indirect Tax, and absolutely, unequivocally NOT A DIRECT TAX, then that means the AVERAGE GUY living and working in the private sector in any one of the 50 States of the union is NOT, I repeat, NOT required to sign a W4 to get a job, W9 to work for somebody as a contractor or a 1040 Tax Return at the end of the year either.

So, in reality, the nature of the health care bill is such that it's being dealt with through, INCOME TAX... what a coincidence. While I love Peter Schiff and do agree with a lot that he says.... the reality is that the Income Tax is NOT a direct tax but an indirect tax which is WHY INCOME TAX IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE APPORTIONED. BECAUSE INDIRECT TAXES DO NOT REQUIRE APPORTIONMENT BUT ONLY GEOGRAPHICAL UNIFORMITY. And anyone with a brain, after they understand that Income Tax is an excise will then know WHY most people DO NOT OWE AN INCOME TAX... because MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT INVOLVED IN ANY EXCISE TAXABLE ACTIVITY WHICH WOULD FALL UNDER THE INCOME TAX!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT. Except, most people by that ridiculous line that the 16th Amendment gives congress some new power of taxation or makes liable a class of person which was NOT previously liable before the 16th amendment which it does not.

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Very Poor name for a money bomb!!!!
Submitted by cdistasio on Sun, 04/15/2012 - 11:23. Permalink

This is a VERY POOR NAME for a money bomb! I’m all about donating to Ron Paul’s campaign. I’ve donated many times in the past.

The term “tax payer” has the following meaning under the Internal Revenue Code:

26USC 7701 (14) Taxpayer
The term “taxpayer” means any person subject to any internal revenue tax.

The reality is, MOST Americans have nothing to do with the Income Tax and by definition are NOT tax payers but would be as the US Supreme Court has said, NON-Tax Payers! So, it's oxy moronic to say Tax Payer freedom for the money bomb since TaxPayer is someone who is legitimately liable for any internal revenue tax! People need to learn who actually is LIABLE and why! Hint: It's NOT the average guy who is a tax payer!

"The revenue laws are a code or system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers, and not to nontaxpayers. The latter are without their scope. No procedure is prescribed for nontaxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law. With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither of the subject nor of the object of the revenue laws..." Economy Plumbing & Heating v. United States, 470 F.2d 585 (1972)

So the Supreme Court recognizes a class of person called non-taxpayers. The definition in the IRC (Internal Revenue Code) of tax payer “means any person subject to any internal revenue tax”

So who is the “ANY” person “subject” to any internal revenue tax? You wouldn’t know just by reading the definition of “tax payer” @ 26USC 7701(14). You would have to “READ” the law to determine who those people are and under what “CIRCUMSTANCES” income that is generated becomes “gross income” under the law and thereby “taxable income”.

If you all want to put an end to the “MIS APPLICATION” of the Income Tax upon those who have nothing to do with the income tax, THEN LEARN what the law actually says instead of running out there in the real world signing W4s, W9’s and other FEDERAL tax forms which have nothing to do with the mass majority of people in this country in the first place! Also, signing anyone of those forms is done “Under Penalty of Perjury”! So basically, you are testifying, by signing such form that you are the subject of the tax WITHOUT EVER READING ONE WORD OF THE TAX CODE TO DETERMINE IF IT’S YOU WHO SHOULD HAVE SIGNED THAT FORM! Even the person, who does the hiring at pretty much any place of business, HAS NEVER READ ONE WORD OF THE LAW TO DETERMINE YOU WERE THE PERSON REQUIRED TO SIGN SUCH FEDERAL TAX FORM!

Ron Paul even admits in the documentary “America – From Freedom to Fascism” when asked is there a law that makes the average guy liable for the income tax Ron Paul’s words were “I can’t site a law I cannot.”

Ron Paul is aware of the REAL nature of the Income Tax. It’s just that we’ve come so far into everyone “believing” that anyone who earns money owes this tax. THAT IS NOT WHAT THE TAX IS. In fact, Income Tax is a HORRIBLE name for the tax.

Imagine you get a bill for owing a “Liquor Tax” and yet you having nothing to do with Liquor at any level. Would you NOT question what the bill was for?!! So you call up the government and say, “Hey, I don’t run a Liquor store, what’s with this bill” and the person on the other end of the line says “Sir, that’s your bill, you are required to pay that bill under the law”. In this case, knowing the title of the tax was a very big help because it was named “Liquor Tax”. The problem with the name “Income Tax” is that most people just assume it’s a tax on anyone who just earns money. That is NOT what the tax is. All the income tax is, is just an Excise tax. An excise tax is irrelevant to most Americans. Can you actually say, that every American earning his own domestic money is involved in an Excise tax?
This is why you HAVE TO READ THE LAW to determine who actually owes the “Income Tax” and under what circumstances.

READ Dave Champion’s book “Income Tax: Shattering the Myths” or visit www.incometaxtruth.com to learn more about this topic.

We ALL have a duty to know what the law says, let’s all adhere to that duty! I know we all want to stop paying this tax we DON’T even owe, but the best way to do this is to call the government out as to what the law ACTUALLY says and Why is says what it says.

The 16th Amendment is a moot point and is irrelevant as it did NOT grant congress any new taxing powers. (Stanton v. Baltic Mining, US Supreme Court 1916) You can repeal the 16th Amendment all day and it still does NOT change congress’ taxing powers! But, congress’ power to levy an Income Tax was confirmed by the 16th Amendment to only be laid as an Indirect Tax, which is why the income tax has nothing to do with the average guy!

Pretty much EVERYONE here is technically not a tax payer for purposes of the Income Tax!

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Also, you have no clue about "the law"
Submitted by cdistasio on Thu, 04/05/2012 - 10:18. Permalink

Explain to me how you become liable for the tax if "it's the law"

The 16th amendment is a moot point. All it did was to confirm Congress' taxing power concerning income tax as an indirect excise tax! That's it. How does that make it what you apparently think it is which is "a tax on anyone who makes money anywhere here in the US". You are way off base.

If you actually read the law, you will notice it doesn't say what you think it says...

Income Tax is an INDIRECT tax. It is NOT a direct tax as others here have suggested. 2 US Supreme Court Cases in 1916 settled this very question. They are:

BRUSHABER v. UNION PACIFIC R. CO., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)

AND

STANTON v. BALTIC MINING CO, 240 U.S. 103 (1916)

The Court said specifically in the Stanton case the following:

" it manifestly disregards the fact that by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged, "

I do not know why others on this board have posted false information as to the nature of the tax. The question they should be asking is, "if the income tax is an indirect tax, how and why am I paying it?" And this is because income taxation on "an Average human being, living and working in the private sector, earning his own living, which includes making his own money, in any one of the 50 States of this Union", DOSE NOT SHOW UP as liable for the tax in the law! That's because the law is written to SHOW that it is indeed an indirect tax related to mostly foreign commerce! That's it.

And that brings us to another topic of what the LAW actually says. Most tax professionals do NOT read the law to determine who is liable for the tax. Most tax professionals read IRS publications and just ASSUME anyone who makes money now owes an Income Tax.

IRS Publications are sort of like "New Letters" put out by the IRS to the tax industry, including mostly ALL CPA's and Tax "Professionals". The IRS has a manual available on their website which any one can go read. Here's what THEIR OWN manual says about their own publications:

4.10.7.2.8 (01-01-2006)
IRS Publications

"IRS Publications explain the law in plain language for taxpayers and their advisors. They typically highlight changes in the law, provide examples illustrating Service positions, and include worksheets. Publications are nonbinding on the Service and do not necessarily cover all positions for a given issue. While a good source of general information, publications should not be cited to sustain a position."

So there you have it. Publications are NOT to be cited to sustain positions about the LAW even though that is what all tax professionals do anyway.

So hopefully this has gotten you on the proper path to actually understanding what the "Income Tax" actually is and especially what it ISN'T!

I say this time and time again... MOST people have nothing to do with the Income Tax just like most people have nothing to do with the Liquor Tax!

I'll SCREAM THIS FROM THE ROOF TOPS.

The Income Tax is an excise tax. In fact, the phrase income tax is a poor name to describe the tax. It gives the WRONG impression about what the tax is actually on.

Granted, Irwin went about it the wrong way, but never the less, he was never the subject of the tax! And the Government knows it. An innocent man is in prison for no other reason than political reasons!

LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TAX! LIVE THE TRUTH ABOUT THE TAX!

And to one of the other posters, Yes, you do have jury trials in income tax cases. It's just jurors have no idea about what the law actually says about who is liable and when.

Read this book and you will clearly understand. I will definitely say without a doubt, that Dave Champion's book is the absolute best book I've ever read, on ANY subject so far.

Just read the book and then you will understand why most Americans never owed a dime in Income Tax and how the Federal government gets away with what is considered to be the largest financial fraud in the history of mankind.

I do not know Dave Champion personally. I'm a listener to his radio show at www.davechampionshow.com which I find fascinating. I am just recommending the book becasue this book puts to bed who is actually liable for the tax!

Deductions, penalties, etc.. only applies to those who have tax liability, period!

The majority of Americans are not even Taxpayers, most Americans technically are NON-Taxpayers. I mean after all, all you ever hear is taxpayer this and taxpayer that.

What about if you are NOT a taxpayer for purposes of the Income Tax. For everyone to just assume that money you earn is subject to an Income tax is absurd.

I knew for a long time most Americans don't owe income tax, but this book fills in all the details and information that is needed for one to FULLY grasp why most Americans have no Income Tax liability.

I really do hope you all investigate this for yourselves as I have. Putting an end to one of the largest financial frauds in history should be top priority for ALL OF US!

__________________________________________________________________

This Caller has NO IDEA!!!
Submitted by cdistasio on Mon, 08/15/2011 - 22:17. Permalink

He mentions a lot of non-sense. Just to recap what the Caller said:

Yes for the Fairtax
Repealing the 16th Amendment.

REALITY CHECK!....

Fairtax is NOT fair. 16th Amendment is a moot point, even if it were repealed, it's interpreted goal by the US Supreme Court in the Brushaber and Stanton cases was to do nothing more than confirm that Congress can only lay an Income Tax as an Indirect Tax, specifically an excise tax. Which, if anyone where to do their research, would know that most Americans do NOT have any taxable income for purposes of the income tax.

So replacing the Income Tax, with a fair tax is ridiculous, as the Fair Tax could not do all that it claims to do anyway. For the same reasons that Congress could not, and according to the Law, did not make liable the average guy living and working in the private sector in any one of the 50 States of the Union for the income tax is the SAME reason why the FAIR TAX wouldn't just be willy nilly anyone who sells "new" stuff to the public and being required to pay all these "fair tax" sales taxes to the government. Anyone ever hear of the RIGHTS to property, owning property and being able to dispose of property.

The 1872 US Supreme Court Case know as the Slaughterhouse case the justices stated:

“No privilege was more fully recognized or more completely incorporated into the fundamental law of the country than that every free subject in the British Empire was entitled to pursue his happiness by following any of the known established trades and occupations of the country, subject only to such restraints as equally affected all others. The immortal document which proclaimed the independence of the country declared as self-evident truths that the Creator had endowed men ‘with certain inalienable rights.’”

To reinforce his view that the right to labor was one of these inalienable rights, Field quoted from Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations:

“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.”

Justice Bradley made the same point:

“In my view, a law which prohibits a large class of citizens from adopting a lawful employment, or from following a lawful employment previously adopted, does deprive them of liberty as well as property, without due process of law. Their right of choice is a portion of their liberty; their occupation is their property.”

Ron Paul has admitted in America: Freedom to Fascism, that he can't site a law he cannot that requires the average guy to file a tax return and be liable for the Income tax. But as Ron Paul said after that, "Well they have all the guns and they think it's the law..." How true... how true...

The government "THINKS" ... not proves, not shows... not demonstrates... just "Thinks" which thinking isn't the law.

"It was settled by the previous ruling that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred NO new power of taxation"

So if the government didn't have it before, and didn't get it, then they don't have it.

It is very well understood that the 16th amendment ONLY categorized the income tax as an indirect excise, NOT a direct tax that can be laid without requiring apportionment.

The Brushaber US Supreme court decision said that the assumption that the 16th amendment creates some unknown hitherto power of taxation was a frivolous argument. They said the 16th amendment did NOT create the ability for the Federal government to lay a direct tax without apportionment. The Brushaber court said that that understanding of being able to lay a type of direct tax without apportionment is without merit...

Therefore, if the Income Tax is an indirect excise then it MUST be applied as an indirect excise. There must first be a privilege exercised before any tax is due.

Average American living and working within the 50 states in the private sector are NOT shown to be taxable throughout the code and cannot.

This second category of "what's not taxable" would be a direct tax that would require apportionment, but the first listing of what is taxable would be considered an excise in relation to the income that is earned in connection to the federal income tax.

That is the truth. Constitutional amendments MUST repeal certain aspects of the original Constitution or another amendment in order to change the meaning of certain clauses. That's why the Supreme court said the 16th amendment conferred NO NEW POWER OF TAXATION!!!!!

"it manifestly disregards the fact that by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation"

So in all reality, repealing the 16th amendment does nothing. Since congress didn't gain any new power, that means repealing the 16th amendment does not take it away either. So, why in the world advocate removing it if it does absolutely nothing to expand congress' taxing power.

Secondly, Congressman Ron Paul is on America Freedom to Fascism stating that he can NOT site a law that requires the average American to file a 1040. So he definitely knows the truth.

So If there is NO LAW that requires the average American living and working in the private sector of the 50 states of this union, why not just come out and say it. That is the honorable thing to do.

Ron Paul being a constitutionalist is aware of the limits of Congress' taxing power and the reason the income tax does NOT apply to most.

And here's Neil Cavuto saying "But if nobody pays their taxes" yada yada yada.... Yeah, and if the world were flat we would fall off the edges.... Well, sorry to tell you Mr. Cavuto, they are NOT most people's taxes. Period! Learn the truth why Congress cannot tax most people's earnings.

The only way most of this non sense in government continues to this day is because people lost control of their own money and congress can request credit out of thin air to pay for anything. Both HAVE 2 GO!

I Love Ron Paul, but I believe he should have mentioned it's not most people's taxes to pay in the first place. That is the TRUE Crux of the matter.

I advocate Properly Applying the tax code, not applying it to people who don't owe it. So in reality, don't change a word, just properly apply it to who it applies to. (It applies to foreigners, non-resident aliens, American's whom withhold on foreigners and/or non-resident aliens, Americans who work within federal possessions, examples would be Guam, Puerto Rico, American Soma, etc.. and also applies to ALL federal employees including those who work for a Federal corporation at ANY level) So, if you don't fit into any of those categories, then you are NOT required to file tax returns because YOU DON'T OWE THE TAX.

So to sum it all UP..... STOP FORCING PEOPLE TO PAY A TAX IF THEY ARE NOT LIABLE!!!!!

Thank you

____________________________________________________________________

—

Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

I have been trying to gather more and more information on this. I know that it is not a mandatory tax and why to some extent. But I am not an expert on all of the laws involved.
My biggest question though is how do we fight back against it when we have a corrupt system that doesn't even follow their own laws? How can we fight back and win and has anyone successfully done this?

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