WSJ: Rubio “charges up the middle” on immigration

posted at 11:31 am on January 12, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Earlier this week, I wondered when the next generation of Republican leaders would start competing for ascendancy in the post-Obama GOP. Marco Rubio has the inside track, I wrote, as the most talented member of the Class of 2010, the Tea Party class that owes little to the pre-existing establishment. Today, the Wall Street Journal profiles an effort soon to be launched by Rubio on immigration, with a plan that Matthew Kaminski says “charges up the middle” and attempts to defuse a political land mine for Republicans:

Florida’s junior senator and one of America’s most prominent Hispanic politicians wants to take the Republican lead on immigration reform. Getting out front of President Obama’s campaign pledge to overhaul the system in his second term, Mr. Rubio is laying out his ideas for possible legislation.

Whether Mr. Rubio is courageous or foolhardy, the outcome on Capitol Hill and the impact on his career will tell the story. Immigration has long been a profitable wedge issue for Democrats and Republicans. On Wednesday at the Biltmore Hotel near his home here, Mr. Rubio spells out a reform plan that charges up the middle.

His wholesale fix tries to square—triangulate, if you will—the liberal fringe that seeks broad amnesty for illegal immigrants and the hard right’s obsession with closing the door. Mr. Rubio would ease the way for skilled engineers and seasonal farm workers while strengthening border enforcement and immigration laws. As for the undocumented migrants in America today—eight to 12 million or so—he proposes to let them “earn” a working permit and, one day, citizenship.

Those proposals amount to a collection of third rails for any number of lobbies. Organized labor has torpedoed guest-worker programs before. Anything that hints of leniency for illegals may offend the talk-radio wing of the GOP.

The plan offers a number of “modules” that are very familiar, but in a new combination, or so Rubio hopes. It comprises:

Gain “operational control” of the border first

Enhance employment checks

Raise the hard cap on high-tech immigration

Create a guest-worker program for low-skill labor

A lengthy but not indefinite process for normalizing longer-term illegal residents

The last module will run into considerable opposition from Rubio’s Republican colleagues, who will insist that no amnesty be offered. Rubio doesn’t see it as amnesty, but as a way to first identify the people who need to be deported, and then to eliminate the permanent underclass of legal-limbo residents. That status quo hasn’t worked in Europe, Rubio argues, and it won’t work here, either:

“Here’s how I envision it,” he says. “They would have to come forward. They would have to undergo a background check.” Anyone who committed a serious crime would be deported. “They would be fingerprinted,” he continues. “They would have to pay a fine, pay back taxes, maybe even do community service. They would have to prove they’ve been here for an extended period of time. They understand some English and are assimilated. Then most of them would get legal status and be allowed to stay in this country.”

The special regime he envisions is a form of temporary limbo. “Assuming they haven’t violated any of the conditions of that status,” he says, the newly legalized person could apply for permanent residency, possibly leading to citizenship, after some years—but Mr. Rubio doesn’t specify how many years. He says he would also want to ensure that enforcement has improved before opening that gate.

The waiting time for a green card “would have to be long enough to ensure that it’s not easier to do it this way than it would be the legal way,” he says. “But it can’t be indefinite either. I mean it can’t be unrealistic, because then you’re not really accomplishing anything. It’s not good for our country to have people trapped in this status forever. It’s been a disaster for Europe.”

It would have a better chance of passing the Senate than a strict no-amnesty bill would, obviously. Democrats want to push on immigration reform anyway, and Republicans will have to have a reasonable alternative on the table. Rubio is under no illusions that this alone will allow the GOP to make inroads with Hispanic voters, but it will at least remove the biggest roadblock:

Is immigration reform a magic bullet for the GOP’s troubles with Hispanic voters?

“No,” Mr. Rubio says, but “the immigration issue is a gateway issue for Hispanics, no doubt about it. No matter what your stance is on a number of other issues, if people somehow come to believe that you don’t like them or want them here, it’s difficult to get them to listen to anything else.”

I’d like to see more detail, especially on how Rubio plans to define the length of residence requirement to enter into the normalization process, along with the method of enforcing that and the commitment to deporting those with criminal records (other than that which attends their immigration status). The method of certifying border security matters a great deal, too, of course, and the commitment from Democrats this time around to actually securing the border, rather than the double-talk Ronald Reagan got in 1986. These are not mere details, but critical to the nature of the approach.

Still, I think Rubio is on the right path, and the sooner that this issue gets off the table, the better off the Republican Party will be. Given the results of the 2012 elections, we aren’t going to see anything better than this in principle that could resolve the differences between Republicans and Democrats, and its success or failure will tell us — and Hispanic voters — whether Democrats are serious about resolving the issue or just using it for demagoguery.

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Mr. Rubio would ease the way for skilled engineers and seasonal farm workers while strengthening border enforcement and immigration laws. As for the undocumented migrants in America today—eight to 12 million or so—he proposes to let them “earn” a working permit and, one day, citizenship.

I can get behind this. But first, we need to secure our border to some degree / control who and what is coming and going. Then fine, anyone who wants to stay cannot be eligible for welfare, must pay back taxes, and if they cant/wont then they have a certain amount of time to get out. If they don’t, then they get serious criminal sentences for the myriad of felonies committed to enter the country and stay here.

As far as regular immigration, yeah, we definitely should go back to giving priority to skilled workers from around the world. I have a friend who came to the US from India, got his engineering degree and his masters, and couldnt stay to take a job he was offered out in high tech in CA. It’s stupid to send him back while we allow people who pick grapes to stay.

Rubio is right to try and tackle this straight up. Hispanics are a natural fit for the conservative party. Secure the border, deport all criminal illegals and move the others to the back of the line.

VegasRick on January 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Judging by the governments they vote for themselves back home, progressives are a way more natural fit for hispanics then the idea of limited government, personal responsibility, and standing on ones own two feet.

Many blacks are also against abortion, but that doesnt stop 97% of them from voting democrat year after year. We’re deluding ourselves if we think abortion is going to turn socialist spanish speaking people into freedom loving americans.

Logistically, that’s no easy task (they all use fake names / IDs, we’d never be able to identify who is who). I used to work with a bunch of brazilian guys who were here illegally. They were hard workers and nice guys. They dont understand that they had broken a serious law coming here — that’s what EVERYBODY does and the us government seems okay with it.

They’d happily pay back taxes, forgo any claims on welfare to stay here and have some kind of legal status. However, a lot of their friends / family were scamming the system, on welfare, not working, sitting around drinking beer and watching univision all day. Those folks have to go. The only way I know of to do this in a fair way, is to have “amnesty” in that everyone illegal who wants to stay comes forward, pays back taxes, promises to forgo welfare for 10 (or whatever) years, gets a temporary tax ID, and then gets in line to become a citizen.

I don’t even care if they’re never full citizens, we’ve just made a huge mess of our law in this country and you almost cant blame people acting in their self interest to come here to hustle and make some money. The vast majority of the illegals don’t fit that bill, however, and if they are on welfare and/or cant afford back taxes, should be given 30 or 60 days to make their way home or they will be thrown in jail for a serious length of time for the felonies theyve broken (fake IDs, crossing our border, illegally collecting welfare, tax evasion, etc)

Nope, sorry, Rubio, you lost me at “earn citizenship.” No person who has entered this country illegally should ever be able to gain citizenship. Citizenship is not and should never be a reward for breaking the law, and there are no hours of work, levels of education, or fines high enough to change that. I understand we cannot deport every person who was brought here as a very young child, it would be cruel if America is all they know, but even those individuals should not be granted citizenship because once they turned 18, if they did nothing to start getting themselves legal, then they became the lawbreaker and we do not reward lawbreakers. I will get behind the candidate who understands citizenship is not a reward for breaking the law and refuses to give a pathway to citizenship for anyone who crossed into the USA illegally.

Mr. Rubio would ease the way for skilled engineers and seasonal farm workers while strengthening border enforcement and immigration laws. As for the undocumented migrants in America today—eight to 12 million or so—he proposes to let them “earn” a working permit and, one day, citizenship.

…All of this kind of assumes we get some real control of the border and staunch the flow of NEW illegals, otherwise we’re setting up a great incentive for more illegals to flow in waiting on the next wave of amnesty coming around in 20 years.

Good god, the stupidity makes my hair hurt. We used to have a immigration problem, that was back when we had a actual functional economy. Barack Obama fixed that immigration problem… By destroying the economy.

Continuing the discussion on immigration reform, which is no longer an issue amounts to locking the barn door after the horses have all gotten out. It allows Obama to control the public discourse when WE should be loudly demanding answer to things like Fast and Furious and Benghazi.

A couple of years back, the following allegorical story went viral. You may have seen this already, but it explains illegal immigration as succinctly as anything I have come across:

Let’s pretend I broke into your house. When you discover me there, you insist I leave. But I say, “I’ve made all the beds, washed the dishes, did the laundry, and cleaned the floors; I’ve done all the work you don’t like to do. I’m hardworking and honest (except for breaking into your house). Not only must you let me stay, you must also add me to your insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide these benefits to my husband, too (he will do your yardwork, he’s honest and hardworking too–except for that breaking in part). If you try to force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house and proclaim my right to be there! It’s only fair, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m trying to better myself. I’m hardworking and honest…except for, well, you know. I will live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness and prejudice.

Oh yeah, I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me.

I will get behind the candidate who understands citizenship is not a reward for breaking the law and refuses to give a pathway to citizenship for anyone who crossed into the USA illegally.

Sunspots on January 12, 2013 at 11:48 AM

Well, americans aren’t totally blameless in this mess either. We’ve had a wink and nod attitude toward illegal immigration for way too long and have sent all the wrong signals to people. The guys I know would happily pay taxes and be legal if there was a way.

How about they understand ALL english! What is it with ‘immigrants’ south of the border that they feel it isn’t necessary to learn the language of the US. That is what true immigrants used to pride themselves on when they came to the US from Europe and other countries, learning the language and being and American.

When I used to live in San Diego, I had a friend who was a manager at a restaraunt downtown. She had people who worked in the kitchen who couldn’t speak enough english to even remotely carry on a conversation, so she had to learn spanish. Pathetic! Either they learn the language, or they leave.

Also, they do not ever assimilate. They are too closely tied to Mexico by sending back money and still having some sort of allegiance to Mexico.

Question for Rubio and all the other amnesty people, what happens to Obamacare when these people are added to the dols? They were not calculated in the cost for the takeover. We all know that the majority of those coming to work from down south are not the skilled type, so they will be taking the subsidies from the system rather than paying a full amount. Lets see if someone on either side of the aisle brings this up.

And some package deal is NEVER going to work. The close the border stuff will go on the back burner or get defunded later, while the amnesty part gets implemented immediately. Screw that. We need someone with a plan that doesn’t negotiate from the middle.

I guess you still haven’t figured it out yet. They quit coming back in 2008. They didn’t quit coming because we got tough and started enforcing our immigration laws, they quit coming because their own economy is nearly as strong as ours is.

Question for Rubio and all the other amnesty people, what happens to Obamacare when these people are added to the dols? They were not calculated in the cost for the takeover. We all know that the majority of those coming to work from down south are not the skilled type, so they will be taking the subsidies from the system rather than paying a full amount. Lets see if someone on either side of the aisle brings this up.

Patriot Vet on January 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Well, the only way I can get behind “amnesty” is if the newly legal illegals have zero claim to our social services / welfare programs for a long period of time. Many of them have lived here for decades without paying any taxes (kind of like Obama voters) and if they’re only here for welfare and to vote democrat, we definitely dont want them / cant let them stay.

in my scenario, I imagine the vast majority of illegals would be kicked out.

I guess you still haven’t figured it out yet. They quit coming back in 2008. They didn’t quit coming because we got tough and started enforcing our immigration laws, they quit coming because their own economy is nearly as strong as ours is.

SWalker on January 12, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Yeah, temporarily it’s almost a wash with the number leaving v the number coming. There are still a lot of people crossing the border, and if we start talking amnesty and central americans / mexicans think they can get in on american welfare and never have to work to live a “middle class life,” i fear we will see that trend reverse.

But until we start seeing millions leaving and no new people coming, it’s still a big problem.

While you make some excellent points about the reality of the situation, I still feel that any attempt to reason this or that is an accommodation of an initial crime. I simply do not accept that anyone who arranges false ID, etc, can do so in ignorance of law to the contrary.

How are they going to pay back taxes? Do they keep pay records from their illegal jobs? Will bosses just give records of employment of their illegal jobs? I guess it’ll be a fixed fee or something, or there will be a butt-load of loopholes for this tax thing.

And some package deal is NEVER going to work. The close the border stuff will go on the back burner or get defunded later, while the amnesty part gets implemented immediately. Screw that. We need someone with a plan that doesn’t negotiate from the middle.

Dongemaharu on January 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Have no fear comrade, we will soon be getting a wall around our borders. But it will be a wall to keep people in, not out.

Well, americans aren’t totally blameless in this mess either. We’ve had a wink and nod attitude toward illegal immigration for way too long and have sent all the wrong signals to people. The guys I know would happily pay taxes and be legal if there was a way.

Timin203 on January 12, 2013 at 11:52 AM

Agreed… Americans have been turning their back on this for quite awhile. It makes economic sense. Nobody wants to pay $8 tomatoes.

Immigration reform is coming whether we like it or not. This seems like the best proposal that we’re going to get. There can be certain stipulations put in there, such as proving that they’re employed, etc.

How are they going to pay back taxes? Do they keep pay records from their illegal jobs? Will bosses just give records of employment of their illegal jobs? I guess it’ll be a fixed fee or something, or there will be a butt-load of loopholes for this tax thing.

Dongemaharu on January 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Yeah, it’d have to be formulaic / flat rate. Based on median family income or something. Mostly it would be to encourage people to leave unless they really have a vested interest in staying.

I simply do not accept that anyone who arranges false ID, etc, can do so in ignorance of law to the contrary.

OldEnglish on January 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Yeah, I mean, they don’t think it’s that serious. We’re much more a nation of laws then most of our neighbors south of the border. And, at the same time, many gringo’s had fake IDs in college as well, but go on to be law abiding citizens.

Have no fear comrade, we will soon be getting a wall around our borders. But it will be a wall to keep people in, not out.

SWalker on January 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Well… lets hope it doesnt come to that, but I’m not sure Mexico would be my destination if I had to flee, and the Canadian border would be next to impossible to really secure.

Excellent writeup, Mr. Morrissey. Rubio is being brave here in the face of republican backlash. But considering the recent GE, its time to face the problem headon. There has to be a few level headed GOP’ers out there, or we’ll continue to lose.

There can be certain stipulations put in there, such as proving that they’re employed, etc.

Illinidiva on January 12, 2013 at 12:03 PM

If Republicans are going to take the lead on this, they have the ability to craft it in such a way that most illegals leave instead of becoming legal, and the ones that stay are actually productive members of our communities and not just trying to take advantage of our collapsing welfare state.

If Democrats take the lead, they will be focused on keeping the ones most likely to be on welfare and become life long Democrat voters.

One scenario is not all that bad, one could be horrific going forward.

And yeah, I think amnesty in some form is going to happen with Obama as president. Let’s try to at least do it in a way that doesn’t ruin R’s electoral chances for a generation, and collapses our fiscal situation even faster than it is collapsing now.

Excellent writeup, Mr. Morrissey. Rubio is being brave here in the face of republican backlash. But considering the recent GE, its time to face the problem headon. There has to be a few level headed GOP’ers out there, or we’ll continue to lose.

tommy71 on January 12, 2013 at 12:05 PM

Yes, it is a historically proven strategic tactic, the best way to defeat your enemies, is to become your enemies. If the GOP wants to defeat the Marxist Democrat they must become the Marxist Democrats.

Once again, Rubio attempting to go down a road already traveled…and upon which the traveler has always come up short.

First question to Rubio and any other presidential hopeful out there….why is the United States the only post-industrialist nation without secure borders?

Fail to answer that one, you will never get any other consideration from this old timer.

Secure the damn borders.

Then, start enforcing the law…laws already on the books.

Come here illegally? Commit a crime? You are out of here. Today. First bus to Nogales or anywhere else not in the United States. And…you pay for the bus ticket. Up front.

Hire an illegal? A senator, a rich liberal or just the guy down at the end of the block? Jail time. And a hefty fine. Have to pay for immigration enforcement anyway, why not make it pay for itself?

All the illegals already here?

Count them.

One time. The Bureau of the Census has the required means to do so. Announce that as of 1 June of any given year, all illegals, undocumented aliens, persons here but not sure why or how, other people who just woke up and fell off the turnip truck…all have to appear before the local magistrate with documentation as to who they are and where they are from and how they got here.

No documents? No proof of legal residence or legal immigration?

I hear Rosetta Stone has some excellent learn-a-language-fast programs. Get one. It’ll help.

End the baby was born here so we have to stay garbage. Anchor baby stuff is a fraud. Prove you conceived that kid, here, legally, while here legally, then maybe we can talk. Otherwise…lots of other places to live with a newborn.

Today. Stay focused, Mr. Rubio.

Now, once that sort of tripe has been dispatched, we can address immigration.

Immigration?

Yep, all for it. In favor of it. Seems to my experience those who had not sure as hell appreciate being able to have..so they try to come here…legally…and some take years to do so. Most make damn fine citizens. We are all better off because they came here, legally, and went through the process, legally.

God bless them all.

There are going to be some basic requirements.

No criminal record. Must have a sponsor. Must have a job waiting. Must possess basic English language skills. Believe me, it’ll help you in the long run. Be willing to leave the old country behind. Sure, bring grandma’s recipe book…might be a money-maker for you and your kids down the road. But, leave grandpa’s Koran behind. Shariah and a free representative Republic have nothing in common. Sorry, but that’s the fact. Been proven time and time again. Desire jihad and a shariah state? Shoulda stayed home. We sure as hell don’t want that sort of thing destroying what millions upon millions see as the last best hope of mankind.

OK, once the above has been set in motion, set in place, established as the baseline law of the land…then we can address the rest of the immigration story.

Was a time when huddled masses were teaming to be free. Seems too many are teaming to get free stuff, on our dime, and make us change our rules because they don’t like them.

That is not how it works.

Mr. Rubio, take note.

If the basics are not in place, first, and set in stone, first, all the rest is meaningless.

Carry that water Ed. Rubio is a GOP tool. You don’t want the America that true Constitutional conservatives want. The proof is your propping up of these clowns.
air_up_there on January 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM

I wouldn’t go that far but Rubio certainly has more ties to the Establishment in D.C. and the Bush family than Tea Party or anyone else for that matter

Yes, it is a historically proven strategic tactic, the best way to defeat your enemies, is to become your enemies. If the GOP wants to defeat the Marxist Democrat they must become the Marxist Democrats.

SWalker on January 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM

What is our choice? We can’t leave the system how it is, with tons of illegals living quasi-legally, not paying taxes, not obeying our laws, not integrating into our society, but collecting our welfare and using our social services (ERs, schools, police resources, etc). Democrats would love to keep the borders porous and let all of these people continue to live how they live, but vote democrat. If we do nothing, that’s what will happen.

Or we can try to set up a system that sort of fixes the problems, but at least denies democrats a new group of welfare dependent non-tax paying moochers that can now VOTE FOR THEM and keep them in power.

“Running Hispanics won’t help Republicans. Ask Gary Franks, Lynn Swann or Michael Steele if being black won them the black vote.

Promoting amnesty won’t help — ask John McCain, who won about the same percentage of the Hispanic vote as Romney did.

Or ask California’s Hispanics, only 4 percent of whom oppose Republican immigration policies. Their main beef with the GOP is that they think Republicans are “the rich.”

The only hope is to run another appealing Republican candidate in four years — when we’re not up against an incumbent president — and return our immigration policy to one that helps America and not just the Welfare Party.”

Stop calling it “amnesty,” and start calling it (and treating it like) “probation.” The clock doesn’t start the day you started breaking the law; it starts the day you turn yourself in, get fully documented, and start proving that you DESERVE to be an American citizen.

Hispanics are a natural fit for the conservative party.
VegasRick on January 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM

I wonder if this is really true. I think most hispanic immigrants come from countries with strong socialistic structures. Are they used to thinking the state is supposed to provide for all your needs?

We need to begin to educate all people in the US that freedom from big government lording over every aspect of your life is the best way – both for freedom’s sake, but also for the strongest possible economy and opportunity for success.

They need to understand that all these promises that are being made cannot be kept – and will eventually lead to economic distruction and social unrest.

Our only choice or hope is to pull our collective heads out of our asses and accept the reality of how and why the Marxists Democrats keep beating the hell out of us.

NEWS FLASH: It isn’t because they promises the low life’s free stuff. It’s because they own the Media and the Educational system. They have spent the last 50 plus years indoctrinating American’s into socialism/Marxism. They have done so from kindergarten though Grad School. The majority of American’s are Socialists and don’t even know it because they have been taught that the basic tenants of Socialism are America’s founding principals.

If Conservatives and Republicans and even the Libertarians who cherish the United States Constitution do not wake the hell up and accept reality for what it is, then America is finished as a Republic.

To do anything about what the Marxist Democrats have done, the Conservatives, Republicans and Libertarians must regain control of the Media and the educational system and they must expose the Marxist indoctrination of America that has taken place over the last 100 years. And while doing that, they absolutely must make a clear concise case for why capitalism, fair market economics and the concepts of a representative democracy, otherwise know as a Constitutional Republic are superior concepts that genuinely lead to a stronger, safer more prosperous society.

Stop calling it “amnesty,” and start calling it (and treating it like) “probation.” The clock doesn’t start the day you started breaking the law; it starts the day you turn yourself in, get fully documented, and start proving that you DESERVE to be an American citizen.

Problem solved.

logis on January 12, 2013 at 12:23 PM

I like that concept a lot. I hope Rubio succeeds. If he doesn’t, the democrats will show us the real meaning of amnesty.

To do anything about what the Marxist Democrats have done, the Conservatives, Republicans and Libertarians must regain control of the Media and the educational system and they must expose the Marxist indoctrination of America that has taken place over the last 100 years. And while doing that, they absolutely must make a clear concise case for why capitalism, fair market economics and the concepts of a representative democracy, otherwise know as a Constitutional Republic are superior concepts that genuinely lead to a stronger, safer more prosperous society.

SWalker on January 12, 2013 at 12:26 PM

There’s that damnable “D-WORD” again, Walker. We’re not any kind of Democracy. I hate that word because of the concept it represents, and so did the founding fathers. We are a federated constitutional republic. Period. End-of-story. Full stop. And the form of government our wise founding fathers put in place has failed us exactly because of chumps like Marco Rubio.

Gain “operational control” of the border first
Enhance employment checks
Raise the hard cap on high-tech immigration
Create a guest-worker program for low-skill labor
A lengthy but not indefinite process for normalizing longer-term illegal residents

I fully support Senator Marco Rubio’s efforts here. I don’t like the last part, but I can live with it.

Sweet. Rubio talks out of both sides of his mouth as he proposes another big Government program that would have parameters impossible to affect… we can’t even get an accurate census let alone get into details about where’ve you been and what have you been doing? The logistics of this are inconceivable.

What about the people already legally in line to come in that have been denied? Now they will get leap-frogged by someone with tech skills or some other kind of progressive anchor?

No thanks. If Rubio wasn’t ready to run in 2012, he’s not ready in 2016. At least, not ready to get my vote. I’ll take Christie… I don’t like him, but at least he’s honest about his amnesty aspirations.

There is no possible way the GOP can out hispander the democrat party.

It’s a game we simply cannot win.

Amnesty would turn Texas blue, and be the end of the GOP as a party. America would become a defacto one party state, and the transition from constitutional republic to fascist dictatorship would be complete.

Democrats look at minorities as clients to be pandered to. The GOP will not win on that field – it has to sell its ideas. At the moment it appears singularly unable to do that.

CorporatePiggy on January 12, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Unable, or unwilling? The last time the GOP floated a conservative candidate who credibly believed in the party’s platform, Republicans found overwhelming success despite a solidly Democrat congress. We have the template in place, but we also have a bunch of obstinate bluebloods leading the party who refuse follow it.

Amnesty would turn Texas blue, and be the end of the GOP as a party. America would become a defacto one party state, and the transition from constitutional republic to fascist dictatorship would be complete.

Rebar on January 12, 2013 at 12:37 PM

I’ve been saying that so much I’ve turned blue. Texas, like California, used to be crimson red. Look at the latest election map. It’s one less shade of red. All because the thousands and thousands of anchor babies from all of the illegals can now vote. They come from a socialist culture and don’t value education or self reliance or anything close to conservative values. Houston Independent School District, where I went in the 60s and 70s, is now 64% hispanic and a dropout factory. Easy to connect the dots. Rubio is nothing but an amnesty loving Jeb Bush clone.

There’s that damnable “D-WORD” again, Walker. We’re not any kind of Democracy. I hate that word because of the concept it represents, and so did the founding fathers. We are a federated constitutional republic. Period. End-of-story. Full stop. And the form of government our wise founding fathers put in place has failed us exactly because of chumps like Marco Rubio.

gryphon202 on January 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Way to fixate on a single aspect of the comment and ignore the actual substance. As for what kind of Government The United states of America is.

A. The United States is a federal republic and a constitutional representative democracy.

The “federal” part is one of three basic types of organization of power — unitary, confederal, and federal. Most nations are unitary in nature (local government with a powerful national government). There are no confederacies that I know of at this time (the U.S., under the Articles of Confederation was one; Germany and Switzerland have also had confederate systems in the past). Federal systems are common among large nations where several levels of government are needed. Australia, Canada, and Brazil are federal as well. Federations do not always work, such as in the case of the United Arab Republic.

The “republic” implies that we have a strong head of state (the President) and elected officials representing the people.

The “constitutional” part means that we have a constitution, which is pretty obvious, considering this site. Finally, the “representative democracy” part means that the people elect representatives to take care of legislative matters. Originally, the only part of the government that fit this description was the House of Representatives. Today, the Senate does, too, and in current practice, so does the Electoral College.

The mere fact that a nation has a constitution, is a federation, or is a republic, does not imply that minorities are fairly treated. It is the content of that constitution, and the values of that federation and/or republic that protects the rights of minorities.

Note that a democracy, in the true sense of the word, does not protect the minority — majority rules.

Hispanics are a natural fit for the conservative party. Secure the border, deport all criminal illegals and move the others to the back of the line.

VegasRick on January 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM

No they’re not. They want free stuff and the Republican party will never out-welfare the democrats. As for securing the border, it will work like it worked all the other times. Amnesty NOW! Secure the borders whenever…..meaning..NEVER! If we enforce the current laws, the problem will correct on it’s own.

And Rubio and all the other amnesty republicans, have the balls to say you want amnesty and stop all the “path to” BS. You sound like liberal democrats.

There is a very real cost to illegal immigration which involves enabling international gangs, endangering public safety, and of course the poor abused taxpayer. On the last point, illegal immigrants are a huge financial burden (as anyone in a border state can attest – in Texas the ‘uninsured’ rider is colloquially known as the Mexican rider…)

I don’t know on what you base the authority of that particular website, but my authority for asserting that America is a federated constitutional republic comes from the Federalist Papers and other writings and quotes from the founding fathers themselves.

Anywho, I know I’m swerving off-topic here, so I’ll just say that I don’t believe that anyone with anything except full citizenship should have so much as a seat at the table as far as government or culture goes. Marco Rubio obviously disagrees with me, so I guess he’s just lucky I don’t live in Florida and can’t vote his sorry ass out of office.

I don’t know on what you base the authority of that particular website, but my authority for asserting that America is a federated constitutional republic comes from the Federalist Papers and other writings and quotes from the founding fathers themselves.

gryphon202 on January 12, 2013 at 1:03 PM

James Madison

“The effect of [a representative democracy is] to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of the nation….”

John Quincy Adams

“If there have been those who doubted whether a confederated representative democracy were a government competent to the wise and orderly management of the common concerns of a mighty nation, those doubts have been dispelled.”

The fact is, in a nation of 20%+ real unemployment, we have enough people to take care of already.

Rebar on January 12, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Mass legal immigration is never mentioned but 85% of legal immigrants come from third world countries and I think I read that Obama got about 70% of that vote. With over a million a year coming in, plus the chain migration effect of that many, we’ll be a one party country in the near future, regardless of what happens with illegal immigration. Most Orientals, Indians, Muslims, etc. vote Democratic.
I’m really ready for the red states to finally say enough!

Mass legal immigration is never mentioned but 85% of legal immigrants come from third world countries and I think I read that Obama got about 70% of that vote.

TxAnn56 on January 12, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Immigration being good for the country, is as much an article of faith for conservatives as being able to tax and spend ourselves to prosperity is for leftists.

And just as wrong.

We’ve been allowing more legal immigration per year then the rest of the world does – combined, and for near 50 years. If immigration was the silver bullet for prosperity, we’d be the most fabulously wealth nation in all of history.

Immigration being good for the country, is as much an article of faith for conservatives as being able to tax and spend ourselves to prosperity is for leftists.

And just as wrong.

We’ve been allowing more legal immigration per year then the rest of the world does – combined, and for near 50 years. If immigration was the silver bullet for prosperity, we’d be the most fabulously wealth nation in all of history.

Rebar on January 12, 2013 at 1:21 PM

It’s partially due to the concept that America was founded on principles and not on geographic reasons that bind us with those who look like and talk like us.

Nope, sorry, Rubio, you lost me at “earn citizenship.” No person who has entered this country illegally should ever be able to gain citizenship. Citizenship is not and should never be a reward for breaking the law, and there are no hours of work, levels of education, or fines high enough to change that. I understand we cannot deport every person who was brought here as a very young child, it would be cruel if America is all they know, but even those individuals should not be granted citizenship because once they turned 18, if they did nothing to start getting themselves legal, then they became the lawbreaker and we do not reward lawbreakers. I will get behind the candidate who understands citizenship is not a reward for breaking the law and refuses to give a pathway to citizenship for anyone who crossed into the USA illegally.

Sunspots on January 12, 2013 at 11:48 AM

I disagree. Our immigration process is idiotically set up in the first place. For example there are LEGAL Muslim Iraqis, Somalians, Afganistanis, etc. who are now in this country from all the idiotic places our military ended up over the last 20 years and opened up gateways to. I have no idea how these people got here legally, some of whom actually hate this nation, yet we are obsessed on what to do with illegal migrant Mexican construction workers and vegetable pickers. The point is the concept of the legal and illegal immigrant is becoming a joke in my eyes.

Plus it does nothing to solve the problem. No one is willing to spend the tax money and time to round up the illegals. Democrats are using it to exploit the issue not just with Latinos but with moderate whites, Asians, and other legal immigrants by painting the GOP as a nativist party. So this situation basically stuck in limbo forever and our only response is “no amnesty…round em up!”

I have learned to live in the real world and this plan by Rubio is about the best we can hope for if we have any intention of cleaning up this mess. At least we can pair down the size of the illegals in this country. What Rubio sounds like he is offering is a way to cut down the size of illegal immigrants in this country, by giving those who want to jump through a lot of hoops an opportunity to stay here, be documented, find out who they are, pay back taxes, etc., and at the same time deport all those who don’t report themselves by a certain time.

All this of course would not happen until the borders are secured, and we set up stronger laws to stop employers from hiring illegals in the first place, which is another thing the business wing of the GOP seems to balk at all the time. This, along with our crappy economy, will cause many illegals to leave anyway without having to be chased down and deported. A rough breakdown: 25% sign up to be processed, 25% will have to be chased down, and 50% will just leave. Also any new law will need to end the sanctuary cities in this country.

The most important thing is as am alternative plan to what the democrats will fire away with. It is better than no plan at all. It is doubtful the democrats would pass Rubio’s plan anyway and therefore make it easier for the House GOP to shoot down a Democrat immigration reform bill which will have no border enforcement, no real hoops to jump…just amnesty basically.

We have to at least neutralize this issue and I think Rubio has offered a surprisingly good plan (I was actually thinking he would come up something much worse). This is not pure amnesty.

Hispanics are a natural fit for the conservative party. Secure the border, deport all criminal illegals and move the others to the back of the line.

VegasRick on January 12, 2013 at 11:39 AM

If the Hispanics are well-educated (doctors, engineers, business men and women), I would agree with you. Those sneaking across the border average a fourth grade education and most are those looking for “free stuff.”

I guess you still haven’t figured it out yet. They quit coming back in 2008. They didn’t quit coming because we got tough and started enforcing our immigration laws, they quit coming because their own economy is nearly as strong as ours is.

SWalker on January 12, 2013 at 11:55 AM

All that footage of people sneaking acorss the border every day is a mirage? Those sneaking across the border are the uneducated and unskilled who do not fare well regardless of the economy. They are not chemists and engineers.

… Rubio on immigration, with a plan that Matthew Kaminski says “charges up the middle” and attempts to defuse a political land mine for Republicans“

The country is lost when simply advocating for “the rule of law” is considered a “political land mine” — especially by someone who claims to be on the only political side that’s doing that advocating …

I’ve been saying that so much I’ve turned blue. Texas, like California, used to be crimson red. Look at the latest election map. It’s one less shade of red. All because the thousands and thousands of anchor babies from all of the illegals can now vote. They come from a socialist culture and don’t value education or self reliance or anything close to conservative values. Houston Independent School District, where I went in the 60s and 70s, is now 64% hispanic and a dropout factory. Easy to connect the dots. Rubio is nothing but an amnesty loving Jeb Bush clone.

TxAnn56 on January 12, 2013 at 12:44 PM

According to a study by the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, 70% of Texans were Anglos in 1980, Hispanics will outnimber Anglos by 2020 and by 2040 70% of Texans will be Hispanic.

The country is lost when simply advocating for “the rule of law” is considered a “political land mine” — especially by someone who claims to be on the only political side that’s doing that advocating …

ShainS on January 12, 2013 at 2:00 PM

“Rule of Law”

Slavery was the rule of law at one time.
Prohibition was the rule of law at one time.
The Assault Rifles Ban was the rule of law at one time.
The British Empire was the rule of law at one time.

We have had lots of rules and laws that were thrown out mostly because people stopped enforcing them, they became impracticable or they became political land mines. This is no different.

If congress passes a stupid gun law are all of us going to follow it? Do all of us follow the speed limit? Are all of us going to turn in our bug gulp sodas when we enter New Jack City?

The law has to be enforceable, practical, desirable and reasonably moral. Rubio is trying to come up with a plan to make our immigration laws fit those categories.

make crossing the border or overstaying a visa a felony.
secure the border.
deport them when found.
host country does not want them?
parachutes.
I no longer care. call me whatever names you want.
legitimate immigrants are getting shafted by all this amnesty crap and deserve better from us.