I don't really "know" many people on MMO-C. All I know is that when I enter threads, I either end them with a single comment because I guess I'm awkward or something? Or I get bombarded with all the opposite opinions. I have a dream of a forum post that someone agrees with or answers nicely to.

"The Thread Ender" - No seriously, whenever I enter a thread, people stop talking. Wtf guys, is it something I said?

Originally Posted by Rizendragon

Cho has been the most epic character in WoW to date.

Originally Posted by Fencers

Every modern Blizzard game has a forum on MMO-Champion. This is primarily a World of Warcraft and associated Blizzard games website and forum.

Canada,we've got freedom too, except we don't pretend to be american when we travel.

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I read someone saying the jumping controls are better then wow...but I have found, though I've tried, that I just can;t get it to have as smooth control as wow...and it's really, really been a sour point for me. any tips to set it up more like wow for movement? b/c it feels klunky as hell to me, and I couldn't do a one single jumping puzzle.

As for the rest, it's pretty looking....I have tried to explore a bit low level and ran into mobs that were just too much. So I guess so much for lvl not being the deciding factor against the environment.

dynamic events don't feel dynamic, or event like at all, they feel like quests, quests that are always there and I guess that brings me to persistent world claims...in honesty my first issue and 2nd issue raised have prevented me from investing a lot of time in the game, my toons are all lowbies, I think 20 is the highest....maybe things become more persistent as you get to be higher levels?
I don't know....but so far, it does not exist. ie: some chick runs up and demands help, I do the quest, 3 min later, she's got the damn quest for me again....which is exactly what they claimed would NOT happen.

I guess over all I felt that GW2 has a LOT of potential, but movement, events, persistence, coming from wow and not gw1 makes things sort of awkward.
I felt boxed in a LOT (as in: it LOOKS like I could walk over there, or hop up that part, but I cannot go there.)

AND my NUMBER ONE bitch about GW2: not having flyers is pointless when you can teleport from anywhere to where you want just by opening the map and clicking. It ruined the game IMO.

"There are other sites on the internet designed for people to make friends or relationships. This isn't one" Darsithis Super Moderator
Proof that the mmochamp community can be a bitter and lonely place. What a shame.

No Holy Trinity:
This causes a massive amount of problems with PvE group structure and balance of PvE dungeons. The only thing you can balance around is how well you can burst/dodge, so 90% of all the PvE in GW2 ends up being repetitive and devoid of any truely difficult mechanics (do not confuse massive hp and massive burst hits as real difficulty). The holy trinity isnt something that needs to be done away with, its not a bad thing, it works very well and contributes massively to the balance of PvE content in most games.

Downed State:
This is the biggest pain in the arse ive ever come across in pvp, and I played vanilla wow as a clothie at one point...

It stagnates PvP in GW2 horribly, and people that should have died, simply act as literal road blocks of health that you have to spend 2-3 seconds of uninterrupted time killing, or 20 seconds of hitting a meatshield. The idea of a downed state is nice in theory, however it simply doesnt work in large skirmishes, if it was restricted to some form of 2v2-3v3-5v5 system then I could see great feats of skill being used in order to ressurect allies, but its simply not needed in anything else, I would prefer more health/defense than a downed system.

Not an Open world:

This is a major gripe of mine, in games where theres no faction system but an open world, they get around that by having bandit players or zones of free PvP reign. In GW2 you are forced into preset pvp scenarios, and since the world has loading screens up the ass, adding a form of WPvP would be impractical. But since PvE in GW2 is sub par at best and PvP is staged what are you left with? World exploration.

World Exploration:

Which brings me onto my next point. World exploration in GW2 is exceptional, however WE (world exploration) isnt a sustainable mode of gameplay, its fun once or twice to the average player, but anymore than that and it gets boringly repetitive. After even one playthrough the exploration objectives become ticky box's that you get done in order to get sweet l3wtz.

The main problem this game has is its sustainable gameplay, its simply not enough for the average MMOer. Theres a shitload more I could have typed and I didnt really go into much detail, because I cant really be arsed, but I think you get the jist.

OT: @Karizee I know your inevitable essay long post is coming, when you do finally post it keep in mind theres no perfect game, I know you probably get payed to post in every single thread, but still. GW2 has its issues, sugar coating them wont do much to help.

Every MMO evolves the genre as a whole, adding to the ever progressing game-play of MMO. Some may argue that MMO have been evolving rather slowly since WoW but we should still take a moment to appreciate them.

GW2 for one expanded on quite a few areas without fundamentally changing the core MMO mechanics.

I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on the following concepts and whether or not they may find themselves in future MMOs.

feel free to add more if you can think of any. Just make sure it is an actual concept, not just something isolated.

- Dynamic Events
I find it to be a superior form of quest delivery than the typical "talk to NPC, deliver to NPC" mode.
It doesn't on its own change the quality of the quests... an escort quest is an escort quest, a gathering or kill x type quest, a quest chain is a quest chain.Verdict: A good / refreshing change to one important part of the quest system (delivery) needs alot more work to revolutionize the whole package.

- No Holy Trinity
In my opinion they didn't manage to preserve depth to group play while at the same time departing from traditional roles.
The departure from traditional roles was / is something that greatly interests me and a drawing point for the game but not at the cost of shallow gameplay.Verdict: A half-finished job in my book, but there's hope of refinement so I reserve judgement for a few patch cycles.

- Dodge system
I like that it adds both a twitch element, makes the combat more 'action-y' while at the same time due to the resource constraint tactical.
I think on its own legs it's well executed.Verdict: Re-active skills are good.

- Downleveling
This is a feature that will probably see a big divide between players that focus on the solo experience vs those that play with friends or / in communities.
Me being in the latter segment I absolutely love it, I find it perfectly executed.
The simple fact that I can join a lower level friend at their zone and actually have a meaningful gaming experience is priceless vs "boosting".
Also despite you don't go godmode in lower zones I find that the more progressed trait and skill tree of a high lvl char makes enough of a difference in perceived character power.Verdict: I'd like to see this as a staple of keeping all game content relevant.

- Skills defined by Weapons.
I like the idea, I have issues with the UI implementation. Specifically the inability to re-arrange primary skills to "functional" groups (debuff, control, aoe or whatever makes sense for the player) across weapons.Verdict: Good idea, half-baked implementation. Reserving judgment as an UI change doesn't seem too unlikely (we already have the ability to re-arrange extended skills, no idea why they didn't do the same for basic skills after you unlock all 5 for each weapon)

- Combo Fields.
Great idea for adding some depth to group play but the delivery is lacking.
There should be some content working as "training wheels" for combo fields, eg. encounters / quests that use telegraphs prompting combo usage.
They're largely ignored while they could provide alot of complexity to replace some of what's lost by the absence of well defined roles.Verdict: A good start for moving away from a static buff / debuff system but needs alot more work to reach its potential.

- Downed State.
A very clunky way to put healing back in the game through the back door.
There's some strategizing to be done around it at least PvE wise (eg. an alternative to healing the downed player is to stop whatever's hitting them / remove debuffs so they can '4' themselves up instead)Verdict: A very awkward mechanic, don't know how it could be improved. It is a gameplay penalty for the downed player (rooted, deprived of skills etc) so it works as a disincentive to "dying" at the same time it's an integral part of playing so most players can expect to spend time in it.

- Multi-Guild system.
Apathetic, don't see what it offers or detracts vs a traditional guild system.

- RvR / sPvP "Lobby".
No opinion, don't do PvP.

- Skill and Build system.
The value of this system is highly dependent imho on the depth and variety of group play and enemy mechanics.
Very hard to judge isolated from those. The more those two systems gain depth the more meaningful the skill and build system becomes.Verdict: Good potential for variety but undermined by the overall "flatness" of combat and group interactions. Might improve alot if the interconnected systems gain depth.

- Cosmetic progression.
I approve of the departure from traditional gear treadmills so I guess I have to approve of cosmetic progression as well (if gear doesn't provide a steep increase in stats what else is left but visuals )Verdict: Apathetic personally but I can see how it could be a hit for a big part of the playerbase.

- No mob / loot / resource tagging.Verdict: Should 100% be the standard for cooperative mode, after playing GW2 you simply cannot go back to another MMO looking upon "allies" as a detriment to your game.

- Bags/Bank Inventory management.
The "direct to bank" for gathered resources is priceless.Verdict: Almost perfect (wish I could say the same for the crafting experience )

I dont understand this at all, the jump feels no different, did i miss something?

Jumping is something I look for in all games. It sucked in Rift, and it was nice in swtor minus the weird lag factor, lotro has the worst jump system in any game ever, gw2 had a cool jump system, but somehow WoW still has the smoothest jump system.

"The Thread Ender" - No seriously, whenever I enter a thread, people stop talking. Wtf guys, is it something I said?

Originally Posted by Rizendragon

Cho has been the most epic character in WoW to date.

Originally Posted by Fencers

Every modern Blizzard game has a forum on MMO-Champion. This is primarily a World of Warcraft and associated Blizzard games website and forum.

I had none of the problems others have had adjusting to this game after coming over from others. I guess it depends on the person and is NOT a negative of the game itself.
I also have no idea what people are talking about when they say the controls are clunky compared to WoW so again I think it has more to do with the individual and not the game.

Verdict? I'm still playing, still having fun. Tried going back to the other games (WoW, SWTOR) but have become absolutely spoiled by the ability to dodge attacks, move while casting and sharing mob's and nodes. That and the game is absolutely gorgeous with fantastic music. To each their own, this game is for me.

I generally agree with you on all points, to keep it short on what I like most when playing GW2 compared to what constantly annoys me in other games it would be dynamic events compared to normal questmode with questlogs, randomly roaming and picking up tasks and events done at the spot makes for such a relaxing questingmode in my opinion where as it becomes increadibly annoying sometimes in other games where it's often very obviously designed to just take you a long time getting from point A to point B then go back to hand in the quest only to be given a new one to kill the 10mobs next to the ones you just killed in the same fucking spot

I think GW2 greatest accomplishment was encouraging people to play together rather than sabotage and compete etc. Everything else I experienced in the game was very so so imo, nothing special at all. They did have some interesting quests, however. When I get back to internet civilisation I won't be running back to this game for any particular feature, only adventure, which was fun.

By contrast, WoW has cross realm zones which achieves exactly the opposite of what GW2 did by shoving loads of leveling people into one zone. I can understand for pvp but leveling has always been a solo affair for the most part. Peculiar decision and I am not looking forward to that at all.

I find it funny that people claim gw2's combat system is boring. I was watching the ptr stream earlier of the hunter and my god the stand still and nuke thing was dull.

Regarding camera/jumping/controls being clunky I always immediately assume the person complaining is a keyboard turner or uses double-tap to dodge
Also dodge jumping or jump dodging w/e you want to call it is hella fun

1. Dynamic events are actually really cool, wish they were much more dynamic and made more of a real difference in the world. Also, not really an innovation, but more of an evolution.

2. Not having the holy trinity is a disaster in this game. It causes everything to be much more chaotic and rely on less strategy than even your not so great trinity mmo. I think the game would be twice as good if they had the holy trinity. Not an innovation in the least. A giant step backwards here.

3. Great idea, makes the combat more active, just wish that we had 3-4 dodges worth at once. I think other mmos have done the dodging thing better.

4. I hated the idea of my level scaling down before the game was released. I am now rather fond of this in the game and wouldn't have it any other way. I really hope that future mmos play on this.

5. Kind of boring and limited imo. I would rather it be separated into 2h melee/1h melee/1h caster/etc and have the option of choosing a much larger variety of skills to fit into the first 5 slots. Just feels like a restriction that I don't want to see again.

6. Combo fields aren't as apparent as I would like them to be. I hardly notice that I added a single duration burning to an enemy when I sit there pounding on the boss for 10 mins(dungeons). I want to see this type of gameplay, but with a much larger effect, like 500% more than what we currently see.

7. Downed state is one of my least favorite mechanics that promote bad gameplay and boss encounters. It seems like the majority of people dislike this, not seeing this in future mmos.

8. Guilds are pointless other than to socialize. In this regards it is a really cool feature, but can only see it working with certain games.

9. I absolutely hate WvW. Partly because of the zerging and culling issues. Haven't played it enough to know if it is actually good or not.

10. I don't like being restricted to so few skills/builds, feels like an ugly baby of a moba and an mmo.

11. The lobby in Gw2 is actually really bad. It only puts you together with people on your own server. As of right now nobody is playing SPvP, which is causing extreme difficulties finding people to group with. I would like to see a single lobby with a room select like GW1.

12. I'm a carrot guy when it comes to loot. I actually lose a lot of interest when there is nothing for me to chase. Gear progression being the focal point is something that I quite enjoy and keeps me going.

I think GW2 expanded on so many ideas and came up with a few of their own, problem being that hardly none of it actually worked. I think big name devs out there will pick up on the success and failures of GW2 and make an elite game of their own. Gw2 was kind of a lab rat to me.

I find it funny that people claim gw2's combat system is boring. I was watching the ptr stream earlier of the hunter and my god the stand still and nuke thing was dull.

Regarding camera/jumping/controls being clunky I always immediately assume the person complaining is a keyboard turner or uses double-tap to dodge
Also dodge jumping or jump dodging w/e you want to call it is hella fun

I am not too big a fan of World of Warcraft [lolz] but it might be a little unfair to compare the combat system in GW2 to WOW on the basis of kinetic action. One can find all sorts of combat systems engaging [or not in this case] for different reasons not always tied to speed, movement and so on.

World of Warcraft doesn't attempt to be anymore of an action game than X-Com attempts to be a shooter. One wouldn't compare X-Com's combat negatively to say, Battlefield 3. The two games are aiming [pun intended] at different goals in their combat systems.

I find it funny that people claim gw2's combat system is boring. I was watching the ptr stream earlier of the hunter and my god the stand still and nuke thing was dull.

Regarding camera/jumping/controls being clunky I always immediately assume the person complaining is a keyboard turner or uses double-tap to dodge
Also dodge jumping or jump dodging w/e you want to call it is hella fun

So a non boring game means you have to run around a lot, thats a weird way to find enjoyment, for me its about utilising my skills to optomise my damage/healing/survival irregardless of how often I move. Both combat mechanics are so obviously different I think its naive to put the two together and say look you stand still...boring. And tbh as a hunter I dont want to be flipping around all over the place, I want to be aiming my shots carefully, cast to move is an overrated mechanic.
Not a keyboard turner, jumping is clunky.
Dodging is a mundane mechanic for me but its all opinion.

If there was one thing I'd want future MMOs to take from GW2, it would definitely be no mob tagging/node stealing.

^

They need to add more end-game to keep me playing though. I quit long ago (before a month into the game even) because I felt there was no long-term goal to look forward to. The entire game was revolved around leveling, which, while I liked, I disliked at the same time.

Also, the lack of skills/buttons turned me off, too.

---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 03:04 AM ----------

Originally Posted by draykorinee

So a non boring game means you have to run around a lot, thats a weird way to find enjoyment, for me its about utilising my skills to optomise my damage/healing/survival irregardless of how often I move. Both combat mechanics are so obviously different I think its naive to put the two together and say look you stand still...boring. And tbh as a hunter I dont want to be flipping around all over the place, I want to be aiming my shots carefully, cast to move is an overrated mechanic.
Not a keyboard turner, jumping is clunky.
Dodging is a mundane mechanic for me but its all opinion.

It's funny, I play a MAGE and I enjoy moving to attack, but I actually found GW2's combat system boring because attacks did next to nothing and you'd get two shot at the later levels >_>;