The Loop starts out with something small. I’ll be lying awake, in bed, trying to fall asleep, and thinking (as I do most of the time) about work. Some little tweak to a product I want to make will lead to a bigger challenge about resourcing which leads me back to the decisions of the past, which fills me with disappointment and frustration, which leads to pessimism about the future, which eventually leads to feelings of fear and powerlessness. It’s impossible to fall asleep when those emotions are coursing through me.

The Loop, I think, is fairly directly connected to Moz’s performance this year. We’re going to grow ~23%. That’s considered to be decent by a lot of startups reaching our scale, but I can’t get to a peaceful and accepting place about it.

From 2007-2012, when Sarah and I put together a budget, we nailed it. We didn’t always hit the numbers exactly the way we thought we would, but we hit them, and often exceeded them. In every year, Moz approximately doubled revenue: ~$450K in 2007, ~$1.1mm in 2008, ~$3.1mm in 2009, ~$5.7mm in 2010, ~$11.4mm in 2011, ~$21.9mm in 2012. And the only reason we missed so badly in 2013 was due to our internal performance and our internal decisions.

Being this obsessed with dollars is pretty fucked up. I know that. But, I also know that I have all of my ego, my dreams, my friends, my family, and my personal narrative tied to this company. If it achieves great things, other startups will point to TAGFEE and to our IC track and to the focus we put on culture and people and say “that model works; maybe we should try it.” And if Moz is only a mediocre success or if, heavens forbid, it’s a bust, none of those things will happen, and then last 13 years of my professional life will have been wasted. I know that I need to separate my identity, at least part of it, from the ups and downs of Moz. Everyone has good years and bad years. Everyone makes mistakes. So, why can’t I forgive myself and my team and move on? Why?

And all of that is part of The Loop, too.

The Loop circles back to those bad decisions about a big bang launch and those missed dates and the foolish beliefs I had about how things would work out. It starts with a little issue, but it builds and builds until there’s a crescendo of regret and that horrible pessismism. That pessimism is something I’ve never felt in my career before. Even in the darkest days of being chased by creditors, I never doubted that we could turn it around. But late at night, lying in bed next to Geraldine, who sleeps like a log, my head can’t stop The Loop. The Loop convinces me that this time, the problems are too complex, the challenges are spread across too many people, and I can’t save it by myself like I could in 2004.

The Loop takes me away from the Rand I want to be. It’s stronger than sleep. Stronger than me.

When I find myself in that dark place, I try to go somewhere else. I usually try to imagine the world of Adventure Time.

It’s a cartoon show for kids, but I’ve watched every episode at least 3 times. I treat the show like a ritual. I’ll come home from Moz and watch an 11-minute episode to try to unwind and get to a different place. Or I’ll be working upstairs at night or on the weekends and call to Geraldine – “I’m going to watch my show!” And she knows. She knows if it’s “everything’s OK and I just need a break” Adventure Time, or a “I’m in the dark place again and I need to shut my head up” Adventure Time.

But now Adventure Time is becoming part of The Loop. It’s the part that comes when I’m digging out of the dark place and trying to escape pessimism and find sleep. And sometimes, it works, and I wake up in the morning, and I answer some emails, and get in the shower, and on my walk to work, I realize the optimism is back. And sometimes… The Loop.

Adventure Time ends and a new cycle starts up. I’m about to fall asleep and I remember an interaction in a meeting I need to address, and I try to sort out why it happened, and it all comes back to 2013 and 23% growth, and all the bugs we still need to fix in Moz Analytics, and the crazy AWS costs that ate up our budget because we thought we’d be on the private data center way before now, and all the bets we placed in 2012 thinking we had to spend our VC round to go faster, and… The Loop.

But for the last week, I’ve been sleeping. Not great, but better. The Loop usually only gets one cycle, and sometimes not even one. I haven’t forgiven myself, but the pessimism doesn’t seem to run as deep. Part of that is Sarah taking over as CEO. Part of it is Matt taking over product architect responsibilities for Moz Analytics. And part of it is therapy.

I’ve been seeing a woman who’s a combination of a professional coach and therapist. We spent 90 minutes on my first appointment talking about The Loop. I very nearly broke down when describing the cycle of being exhausted, overwhelmed, and just wanting to sleep, but not being able to reach it. She helped. We talked about ways I could intervene, and remove elements of The Loop. Many of them were incredibly simple – for example, imagining each concern as an individual module that I could place on a river, and float it away, so that once I’d thought about it, that thought was done and gone and I didn’t have permission from myself to think about it again that night.

She gave some homework, too:

When we met again this week, I told her that I could scarcely believe that A) I hadn’t experienced The Loop strongly since our first talk and B) I had barely needed the techniques she gave me. Just knowing that I had ways to stop The Loop was enough to keep it at bay. That felt really good.

In the last 7 days, I’ve still been watching a lot of Adventure Time, but I’ve been warding off the dark place and stopping The Loop. Tonight, when it started (around 1am), I decided to write this post. I have no idea if it will help anyone or if anyone will even be interested, but I think writing is a tool I can use to be mindful, and to name my feelings, and to validate them. And, yes, maybe even to “Ramble with Relief.”

Hello Mr.Rand,
I always idealize you like a role model. We all go through with the crisis in our lives. The best thing is always to face the hard time with determination and will power and if we don’t do that those problems really screwed us brutally.
Sir you just need a little break. That’s it! Get the vacations with Geraldine you’ll feel good and fresh like you always look.

Comeback coz I Wanna see you in every Whiteboard Friday badlyyyyyy

Jens

Great Post Rand, very personal. Really hope you’ll get sone more rest in the near future!

Angela Check

Hi Rand, I couldn’t sleep so I read your blog LA -thank you for being so transparent – perhaps a relaxing sabbatical might be help?

Gael de Talhouet

Very helpful. Tks Rand. I noticed something about “the Loop” : the more your swirl, the deeper it drags you down.
I have my own technique to break the circle (also coming from a coach) : she once asked me “How do you eat a Mammoth ?”
I thought “Yes, this is the solution : You slice it in small pieces “

John Harris

I really know how you feel, I’ve been the same years ago until I understood what really counts in life. It’s not the $$$ that’s for sure, those always come and go. The sad part is they come hard and go easily… Also Rand, the higher you want to jump, the harder the fall will be, so take it easy. It’s not easy to let go and your mistakes will always hunt you for a long time. Same happens to all of us !

I think the best think you can do for yourself right now is to completly change your focus on something new. Get a PPL pilot licence, go sailing or start to play piano. Do any of those with all your heart and you will get over it.

Just my thoughts here… hope it will help you !

Szymon Szczesniak

Had the same feeling until my kid was born. Now I have way more things on my head, but we always watch cartoons together and when the loop circles back late at night, I lie beside him and it all goes away.

I also think that you should do more Whiteboard fridays. I guess this is what makes you happier at work.

http://moz.com/rand Rand Fishkin

I do like Whiteboard Fridays, but there’s only one Friday each week! Not sure that having kids is in my future, but I think it’s awesome that your son can help bring you that peace.

Steve Morgan

I think maybe what Szymon means is that you personally should do more of them, as sometimes you outsource them (e.g. this past week’s one was someone else doing it). I know what he means though – you can tell that you love them when you’re doing them

Szymon Szczesniak

Spot on Steve!

Ideology

You’re searching for meaning and purpose. You thought Moz would give your life meaning, but it does not.

Check out ignite.com

Patrick Altoft

My advice is to find everything you don’t like doing or are not good at (often the same things) and find people who are better/more passionate about these things to take ownership of them. Once other people take full ownership of the things you don’t enjoy then you an focus on the stuff you enjoy and just stop getting distracted by the negatives. Also, don’t worry about things you can’t change.

In terms of growth, the key is to produce products that are indispensable to the daily life of an SEO. Maybe you need to really research what this is more? You are doing a lot of work to offer link data but most competitor link data is irrelevant now due to link devaluation & disavow files. The amount of competitor link analysis savvy people are doing these days is tiny compared to 18 months ago. It’s far better to research a market and understand the key blogs and influencers than to try and reverse engineer a competitors profile. Maybe running some surveys to ask what people want over the next three years?

http://moz.com/rand Rand Fishkin

Thanks Patrick – been working a number of years at your first suggestion, and we do have a great team of )135 people who’ve taken over ownership across the company. The second one is definitely the kind of thing that puts me in The Loop. Tonight, I’ll be thinking to myself, “Does Patrick think Moz is just competitive link analysis tools? Does he know about X and Y and Z? Does he not think any of our other tools or subscription features are worthwhile? I wonder if there are lots of people like that…” Not your fault at all, but I do have nervousness about how complex and multi-tiered our subscription product is. As I noted on Google+ (https://plus.google.com/u/1/111294201325870406922/posts/2u7Lj9oqUEN ), fewer than 10% of our subscribers have even ever visited most features once.

Patrick Altoft

We do use your other tools and moz analytics looks excellent. I guess being more old school than some I still think of the link data first rather than somebody like searchmetrics which is rank data first. I use searchmetrics in my role 10 times a day vs perhaps 3 times a week for moz but that’s because my role is mainly sales and the direction of our seo strategy as a business not actual client work.

http://moz.com/rand Rand Fishkin

Cool – thanks for the feedback. I’m hopeful that our upgrades to rankings data can be useful for a lot of folks like you (though we’ll likely never be at the scale of a SearchMetrics/Brightedge/Conductor/etc – we focus much more on the SMB market).

dan barker

Silly suggestion: build up ‘retargeting lists’ of your users who haven’t viewed particular features. Advertise to them if it looks like they’re going inactive.

Fred Schebesta

I hope this gets through to you Rand because I think everyone is skirting around the big issue.

Fundamentally, we need to be retaught how to rank in Google again. We are trying to grow our business too and you made that happen in the past. The game changed and so we dont know how to use your tools to rank and get growth and traffic for our businesses.

Perhaps get a website and give it a try and see how you go in Google these days…

We all used to use your tool because it was about links and that is what you taught us. But now we dont know anymore so we have forgotten how to use your tool to get rankings.

Help us grow our businesses Rand and you become and invaluable part of our business. Happy to chat with you more about this over Skype if you want more raw in the trenches feedback.

Fiona Pullen

Sorry to hear you are going through this, I hope you manage to break the cycle. I get it too sometimes, doubting the business decisions I’ve made in the past, stressing about the future of the business plus the added guilt of did I work too much instead of spending time with my son. I think like John said the realisation that ultimately the money and the business don’t actually matter helps to break that cycle.

My husband has recently developed a life long health problem and it has really made us realise there are more important things in life. Businesses don’t have to keep growing and growing, so long as it supports what we want to do outside of work, and allows you to live a lifestyle you are happy with that is what matters the most.

Danny Dover

Your incredibly public honesty inspires me Rand, thank you.

Although every one is quite different, I think a lot of us experience something like your loop. I have never completely solved it for myself but have found that actively participating in adventures (a hobby of some sort?) rather than just passively enjoying them has helped me put the loop items into a fuller, more centered context.

Good luck Rand, you have an army of supporters behind you!

Steven Macdonald

Great post, Rand. Sorry to hear you are going through the loop.

I’m in the loop right now too, and know exactly how you’re feeling. I’ve decided to try to take it easy for the rest of the year and simply enjoy the Christmas period and time with my family. Although it is easier said than done.

And as Fiona Pullen mentioned in her comment, there are more important things in life than work. We have to remember that.

http://jindoulee.com/ Jindou Lee

Rand, I hear ya. It’s 3am here and I’m stuck in my loop. I wonder if the same way we plan revenue targets and achieve them, is there a way to plan to worry less and actually put our minds to consciously focus on achieving that? :/

Anon72739

Rand. You are inspirational guy, but you really need to calm down for a while. Smoke something or do something that shuts down your brain for a second and then have a lot of sleep. Once thats done you’ll be stronger and more creative. Hope that helps

Slavko Desik

Forget about work for a day or two. Segregate one part of who you are from what you do for a living. Otherwise, I believe, no matter the techniques, the loop will circle back in one form or another.
I’m sharing this article on Reddit. I believe many young entrepreneurs and start-up owners might benefit from it.

Steve Morgan

Yeah – always make sure that you take one full day off a week (whether that’s Saturday or Sunday)

http://www.zenonlinemarketing.com/ Yatin Mulay

Rand, IMHO, @Patrick Altoft has nailed it. The need for what Moz offers in terms of Premium Subscription has declined significantly (for factors completely out of your control; eg: Penguin).

A business model that runs counter to the revenue model of the Search Engines & Social Networks will sooner or later run the risk of being hit by them.

Personally, I’d love to see Moz gradually pivot to an integrated PPC optimization platform ( adwords, bing ads, linkedin ads, twitter ads ). It’ll be a massive strategic shift, but well worth the effort in the long run IMHO.

In the short run, I’d urge you to explore meditation & make mindfulness a part of daily life.

http://moz.com/rand Rand Fishkin

I don’t think we’ll ever go in a PPC direction, and I don’t think I’d agree that Penguin has hurt Moz’s subscriber base or the value we provide (if anything, it’s made it more critical – and every major Google update, Penguin included, usually results in a spike of usage and new subscribers, so that logic doesn’t add up).

http://www.conversationware.co.uk Matt Lambert

What has been missing for me, as a long time fan of Moz, is a focus on converting keywords – unless I missed it. I don’t care much about traffic that doesn’t convert. Nice to have, but ultimately, we’re all judged on conversions and new business. The only way I know will improve results is to focus on things that are already working, and that means knowing the keyword that produced the conversion and going for more market share for that (ppc or seo) – and improving the experience for a searcher for that specific word. With PPC we can influence the experience immediately. In Google Analytics a page is an average of all the keywords that use it, and a short keyword contains lots of longer ones – there is nothing worse than an average to skew the way we look at things.They say it’s always darkest before the dawn Rand.

Digital eMspace

Thank you for sharing. Sometimes, when experiencing “the loop”, one feels lonely. It is an amazing feeling to learn that others know how “the loop” feels, too.

Eunice Coughlin

I hate the Loop! Until I read this, I never thought of it this way before but that’s exactly what it feels like. It sounds like you’ve found a way to cope so I won’t add my advice. As for me, when I feel myself going in to the Loop, I turn on the sound machine. Something about listening to waves or the sound of rain makes my brain finally switch off so I can fall asleep. And hang in there, Moz is awesome and a great help to many entrepreneurs.

Lindsay Wassell

Thanks for sharing, Rand.

I experience something like The Loop when I’m trying to fall asleep, too. The thing that works best for me is to cut off work at least an hour before bed. I used to work until the last possible moment and then try to pass out quickly. Not a chance.

The bit about cutting off work at least an hour before bed is difficult. It isn’t enough to step away from the computer. I need to find a way to actively redirect my focus. I have a few hobbies/activities that help with this – cooking (especially something complex), cleaning (it can meditative), painting, or sewing. The trick for me is to find something that I can’t do with smartphone in hand.

You’ll find your groove. <3

http://moz.com/rand Rand Fishkin

Thanks Lindsay – I’m going to keep working at it, but I’m hopeful some of these new techniques can help.

BethanyTaylor

You made me realize cooking is a huge stress relief for me, too! I never thought of it, but I always feel so good after following a recipe and trying to be lean as possible (not healthy lean but process lean..clean as I go, rinse dishes etc.) I think I’ll work out a recipe tonight!

Lindsay Wassell

Bethany – Have you ever tried making a risotto (Italian rice dish)? Risotto is my favorite decompress recipe because it requires attention and focus for about 45 minutes and the results are oh so rewarding. Yum.

Writing brings the loop into a different place, rendering elements into a flatter existence. There on the page tackling each section as you mention can then be expanded upon with more free writing developing further and polishing what remains hidden in the subconscious from daily interactions. Unburying through writing is an awesome practice. Your transparency is scary in the online world but seeing you dig deep is inspiring. You are a rock for so many, all of them wanting, needing you to be Rand, that Whiteboard Friday dude with all the answers among so many other things. Directly helping has been your root, you recognize that by having Sarah and others do more. Great to see you on the up and up.

http://www.jeffalytics.com/ Jeffsauer

Concentrate on the good as much as possible. You have built something amazing with Moz – something that less than one tenth of one percent of people can claim.

onreact

Good to know that highly successful people have problems too 😉
To get your mind off work I’d suggest a dog, sports and meditation. Helped me a lot. Especially sports is important. When your body isn’t tired it’s hard to sleep actually.

http://www.webranking.com/ James Svoboda

Hi Rand,

I get what you call The Loop from time to time and can’t sleep thinking about all the If, What, and How scenarios that my mind is trying to work though. Even had a bit of it at 4:30 this morning and laid there for an hour until I decided to get up.

They are usually more frequent in November and December with so much going on… holiday planning and events, gift shopping, extra time off, year end finances (personal and business), taxes, year end goal assessment and next year goal planning (personal and business), the feeling that I don’t have as much time as I’d like to spend with wife, kids and friends… the list can go on and on.

For me the Loop also fixates on work related issues. I think this is because that’s the area I’m more responsible for than the others and I feel like I can work through all the issues if I just devote more energy. This is probably quite common with principals of companies. I’ve found that working more doesn’t help reduce the Loops, just seems to cause them to happen more frequently

Adventure Time is your Cave. The Cave is a principal that I first head about over a decade ago from the author John Gray. The Cave being the place you go to figuratively and sometimes literally to decompress after work. My Cave is my Kids. They are awesome pieces of sunshine that can help me transition out of work mode.

One of the things I do that seem to help is the routine of going to sleep earlier than I would have when I was younger. This helps being well rested for the next day as well as reduces the stress of going to bed at 11 pm thinking I’m only going to get 7 hours of sleep. Then at Midnight thinking I’m only getting 6 hours of sleep. Then at 1 am thinking… well you get the point. This way I’m more in control. And isn’t that what this is all really boils down to?

Best wishes.

Elaine

When the Loop starts listen to podcasts – something entirely unrelated to your day job. I like to listen to the latest film reviews, entertaining history shows, TED talks – the sure thing is, if it’s really gripping – you’ll be asleep in no time and miss the end. I listen through my pillow so I don’t disturb anyone else – the stuff I’ve half learned!

Lukas

I can recommend MBSR. It helped me tremendously after I had a burnout the end of 2011 and couldn’t work for around seven months. Yoga and especially meditation is what stuck with me. And it’s true what’s written on that homework your coach gave you “You get back exactly what you invest”. Meditating once every couple of weeks doesn’t do much. Taking the time to meditate daily allows you to be mindful even in very stressful situations.

James Chai

Find a cause you believe is worthy so you can balance what is really important.

Sometimes to feel better we have to see how others deal with true pain.

Niklas Aronsson

I will take some notes from this as I have the exact same problem.
Most nights I go to bed at midnight, and without any sleep I am awake when the morning news starts at 6am, and then I just get up instead of trying to get some sleep. This is about 3-4 days a week normally, and when I do get some sleep, it is because I am so exhausted that I can’t concentrate on a single thought.

The Loop, that sure is a good name for it. I just can’t “unplug” my brain. I keep thinking about my business, and I can’t let go. No matter how much I try…..

http://www.jsodigital.com/ John O’Connor

Hey Rand,

Have you ever tried meditation/mindfulness/yoga?

I find that nothing helps deal with stress better than a regular yoga and meditation practice. Both the action of practicing, and the message of compassion.

“Yoga is the cessation of the movements of the mind.”

Pantanjali, The Yoga Sutras

http://www.zacparsons.com/ Zac Parsons

Thank you for being vulnerable here. I look up to you in so many ways, and your honesty and transparency are at the crux of that admiration. If nothing else, you’ve helped to remind me that even the best of us experience melancholy.

On a side note, you’ve convinced me to pay more attention when my son fires up Adventure Time. Perhaps I should go back with him and watch all of the episodes more closely.

Go easy.

http://www.ivanodibiasi.com/ Ivano Di Biasi

Sorry about your feelings, take care. You’ve done an awesome job but sometimes there are external events, like Google scaring people doing SEO, that makes the difference and blow away part of the deserved success. Don’t worry these are just events and growing up (less but growing) when a nice is falling down is always a success

http://www.startupmanagement.org/ William Mougayar

You didn’t once mention Google as a potential factor in 2013. Were they?

http://moz.com/rand Rand Fishkin

Thankfully, no. Google’s been pretty awesome to us this year (and in most years past)

http://www.startupmanagement.org/ William Mougayar

That makes sense. thanks.

Melissa Randall

I have been a long-time member of pre-sleep loop. I tend to experience the loop during a lot of my free time as well. I bring my laptop everywhere I go, on the off chance I’ll realize I have work to do. I can’t even get through a movie with a friend without having my laptop in front of me, so I can multitask. Recent realizations that a) this is really irritating to family/friends b) results in me producing less than stellar work has brought me to this thought: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7rc7iu2ML1qaezui.gif.

Cygnus SEO

We don’t agree on many things I’m sure given the hat colors forced upon our heads, but I sincerely wish you the best in conquering depression and the loop Rand. The past couple years have hit many of us very hard, but there always looms the ability to regain control of your brain and fight back. Get healthier, get smarter, and get happier knowing that your best days are still ahead of you.

wilreynolds

Hey Bossman, got some good news and some sucky news.

1 – Many companies have “failed” or gone bust and still have had an impact on how others operate their businesses. Sure scale and a successful exit makes the impact bigger (i.e. think of Netflix or Steam’s employee handbooks and approaches to HR), but a bust doesn’t make the impact zero. I would try to separate those two. Your company might not grow as fast as you’d like. It has NO bearing (IMHO) on how I perceive what I’ve learned form you and the Moz crew about the business and I probably speak for some others too. Also lets be fucking honest for a second, a lot of people who run successful businesses are idolized in spite of the fact that they would spit on the same people who idolize them. I know an exit / IPO gives you a bigger bullhorn, but try to separate the two if you can.

2 – The bad news is this, about 18 months ago I realized that a large part of my team was great for the clients we had but not the clients we were starting to get. I knew that the next 18 months were going to be in the loop, a lot of worry, and a lot of long nights. I found though that I looked at my ratio, month in and month out from a recruiting standpoint. Was I getting in the right types? So lets say it was 30%/70% – 5 months later it was 20/80, 5 months later 13/87, etc etc. Instead of me waiting until it got to 5/95, I celebrated the small victories on the way, one person at a time. That probably was my “loop” man did it suck – but today I feel great about where we are headed.

Keep your head down, in times of stress work on what you can control, and stay happy.

http://www.jimcanto.com/ Jim Canto

I would speculate that coping with your life’s “server load” has changed due to age. I’m not calling you old… far be it for ME to call someone old (the way I feel lately) LOL… However, I’d suggest meditating on the reality of time. Not time left in the day… time remaining in your precious time here on earth. That seems to be where my “Loop” finds plenty of momentum. I think it’s a form of panic. And… if you panic, you’re dead (someone once told me that.)

Having an executable plan, as well as the staff and resources needed to execute the plan is often a source for comfort. This is something I’m NOT sharing from experience. :- However, I do “believe” that being organized is key. When it’s all thought out and written down… there is no need to let it weigh you down. You’ve done your best…which is… after all… the best any of us can do…until we get better. With that being said.. I’m anxious more often than relaxed.

http://www.ephricon.com/ Jon Payne

Rand,

You’ve run several different businesses now, albeit under one entity. From consulting to bootstrap software to venture-backed, growth-focused software company. You’ve been through a lot. From what you say of Sarah Bird and your comments regarding the CEO swap it seems like you have done well to hand things off and that you have good people in place…

So the question is now why are you still obsessing? I can see years ago when you had to solve every problem, but you have people now in place.

I suspect the answer is not “b/c I need to solve this problem” but more “b/c this is my baby” or “it’s who I am”. That’s exactly my situation. I’m on a much smaller scale (I stayed the agency route, grew to 15 or so employees) but I can relate at least in some sense. My firm recently merged with another agency and the net result is that my role is much more limited and focused. This has enabled me to leave things at the office and not obsess about them 24/7. Shoot, I’m replying on a blog post right now… who has time for that?

Anyhow, I wish you luck. My only advice (am not qualified but will type it out anyways) is to see where you add the most value and try and focus your scope and thoughts on that and continue to hand things off. As companies grow the issues become more complicated, and that can offset your handing-off of responsibilities. So you have to hand off more! And realize the business won’t break if you let go a bit. And if it does, well hopefully part of your funding was a personal cushion!

http://www.strutta.com/ Danny Wood

Hey Rand,

Loved this post, it’s definitely helpful for anyone who has these kinds of feelings to know that others share the same struggles. Please continue to tell us about how you overcome The Loop, as I’m sure you’re seeing it’s relevant to a lot of your readers.

One thing that I’ve found helpful in similar situations is to include some kind of exercise late in the evening into your routine. What that looks like is different for everyone, but stationary exercises (push-ups, sit-ups, etc.) and walks with music are my personal favourites.

As always, thanks for sharing!

Mike Tekula

Sorry to hear about this, Rand – I’m confident you’ll get through it.

Just a thought: when I am not getting rigorous exercise (to the point of exhaustion) 3-4 times a week, I get antsy, have trouble concentrating, can’t sleep, etc. I have misattributed this to all kinds of things going on in my life. We look for stories that explain what we’re feeling, but often we don’t actually understand the root cause (which could be something purely physical/nutritional/chemical).

In short: you might try physically kicking the crap out of yourself daily. It helps me like nothing else.

Larry Kim

Rand – wow. take a month off man! In August my wife and I went on a fun trip around the world, stopping in all sorts of weird places. i was offline for almost the entire month. when was the last time you unplugged from moz?!

aboer

My worry…VC investment inevitably involves the extraction of promises that are difficult to keep. Many of us aren’t well suited to the emotional strain of unmet expectations. And investors often use that emotional leverage to their own advantage to gain control and force out founders. Hope that isn’t what is happening here, but if it is, I can understand why you are losing sleep.

Gary R Beal

Just as suggested every business has its ups and downs. I definitely agree with the staff number issue. Delegation is the key.

Jake

Rand – Thanks for pouring your innermost thoughts out here. Judging by the amount of comments, it’s clear that many people struggle with this. You happen to have (slash have worked hard to get) a platform to bring this to light, so thank you.

I think years from now, you’ll look back at this time in your life and this blog post and realize that things were really, really out of balance. For loops to be that strong, it’s a very strong sign. Your body is telling you something loudly.

The answer is much deeper than any one remedy, but to summarize what has worked for me at others below at times:
– Physical work – Exercise is critical. First place to start. Super healthy diet, no food before bed, make sure your body is tired at bedtime. Lots of research on this.
– Mind work = the identity stuff you mentioned. Reading some eastern philosophy like Krishnamurti or Buddhist teaching is amazing for this. Echhart Tolle can work too.

For me, reading a Kindle in the middle of the night worked. Something about cultures or travel, ABB anything but business. I also moved my clock so I couldn’t see it. I found I would be up, see the time, freak out that I was entering a loop, then all thoughts of tomorrow sleepless exhaustion would start to make things worse. I hide the clock now.

For a friend, doing push ups to exhaustion worked. When he gets in a loop, he just jumps on floor and does push ups until he can’t go any longer. Says it works.

Good luck brother. We’ve all been there or are currently there. You’re not alone.

April-Rose

As someone with Bipolar II I can completely understand this. And do you know what? We all have something like ‘Adventure Time’ whoever you are and whatever your situation. Mine tends to be doing something creative whilst watching the terribly depressing Grey’s Anatomy, it doesn’t always help but my brain switches off and I just give myself a timeout so I have the energy to tackle the negative a little later on. It’s not avoidance or anything like that, it’s simply surviving the best way you can.

Nicola Ferrari

Thanks for sharing, your post will be very helpful and inspirational for a lot of people facing similar situations. Take care: you’re great!

Rob

Oh god, I’m probably going to be labelled a troll for this, but here goes: You’re suffering from anxiety, just like millions of other people in the world. There is nothing special about your anxiety just because you run a large company…it does not have any more merit than any other persons anxiety, and as such, it’s certainly not deserving of some proprietary name like “The Loop”. It’s just plain old vanilla anxiety, and as a society, we’ve developed innumerable coping mechanisms that you can avail yourself of, from drugs, to meditation, to professional help. Hell, there are even services where you can go spend time with baby goats to help ease your feelings of anxiousness.

The point is: it’s just anxiety. As such, you should probably stop attributing any sense of uniqueness or gravitas to what you’re going through. You should brush yourself, find a way to cope, and carry on. Just like the rest of us.

http://nickgrossman.is/ Nick Grossman

As someone who has personally dealt w the loop as described here and also been prescribed anxiety medication for it (celexa ftw!) I agree w this but also note that its not just a matter of brushing it it off.

John Parker

For some reason it seems to be the thrill of working in the internet industry and things becoming so competitive.. It’s slightly being worried but excited to spend another day in this industry… i went to a therapist a while ago tried getting it taken care of with medication… no luck. Basically turned it into motivation now.. i might sound crazy but US SEO’s are really part of the reason why the internet is becoming a better place and evolving so quickly…. Who knows. No one has life figured out to the perfect degree.

Hey Rand, thanks for sharing. I think the T in TAGFEE has been a mistake. I respect you and your personal style/philosophy, and the products you create are stellar. However, I feel–and have felt for some time now–that you are far too transparent in ways where you should not be.

Especially when it comes to personal issues like this. Now I’m sure there are many reading who appreciate you sharing your struggles. My concern is that I don’t think it strengthens you as a leader to share such insecurities, and I think it may even damage your company’s brand a bit.

I don’t mean to be a troll. As I said, I’m a big fan of what you do (long time lurker, first time comment-er here). I’ m just sharing how your generous transparency makes me feel uncomfortable for you, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

Diane Austin

Rand, I just want to thank you for being willing to take risks and be vulnerable. You’ve already built something powerful with Moz. Your willingness to open up and share about your struggles is another sign of your courage. It comes at a pivotal time for me, as I’m struggling with my own mental loop waking me up in the middle of the night. You might already be familiar with her, but Brené Brown has just come into my field of view and I find her work on vulnerability (and it’s relationship to creativity) fascinating. Look her up – she’s got several TED talks that are well worth listening to. Thanks again for sharing. I wish you blessings!

Tony Dimmock

You’ve been through every type of challenge possible. I’ve followed your rise from humble beginnings to how you’ve built Moz to what it is today. I salute you for your candid interview with Andrew (re burnout) and your brutally honest post.

With all the things you mentioned in your post, the way I see it Rand is that you’re guilty of one thing: you really care. As your ego, dreams, friends, family and personal narrative are all tied to Moz, the bigger Moz gets, the more expansive and far-reaching the overall Moz mission becomes – and right now you’re in the middle of it, trying to identify yourself yet feeling less and less in control and seeing yourself less and less of who you are.

When we wear our hearts on our sleeves, we often find ourselves treading lonely paths, as when all is said and done and we face ourselves in the mirror – who is it that stares back? Sometimes we lose track of who that person really is. When our businesses and ourselves are indistinguishable from each other, problems arise from a blurring of who and what we are. We need anchor’s and parameters to give us the much-needed balance we need and crave on a daily basis, both inside and outside of our responsibilities.

One thing I realised a while ago (and I’m a bit of a control freak!), is that not you, me or anyone else can change our industry for the better on our own. Yes, we can try and influence (as your excellent “Secret Ingredients of Better Marketing” preso highlighted) but ultimately, our industry contains hundreds of thousands of people that we can’t control, regardless of how we think they should change, adapt or grow. Each of us can only do so much in our own capacities.

The biggest challenge we have, is to sometimes just let go and see what happens next. Risky? For sure. Uncertain? Absolutely. Necessary? Most definitely.

With Sarah becoming CEO (a fantastic move!) you’ll be able to focus again on doing things that get their fuel from your heart – and we’d all love to have back a Rand that loves what he does again

I hope you feel better real soon friend – and thanks again for sharing.

MTBkelly

Rand, I almost didn’t read this. I’ve been in the loop and I stayed in it for 6 months one year and now I don’t even talk about not sleeping. I took a relaxation/breathing class. But while that helps, what really works is so simple. I decide to shut down the “gateway” thought. And most of the time it works. I just think “nope, not thinking about that.” I so get this post.

lindawalmer

While I don’t have a “loop” that I get caught in each night, I definitely have product, team, customer and company issues that plague sound sleep. My dreams for years and years have been about products, features and work. My luck is that most of them aren’t about doubt, but about solving problems. They still yield sleep that is less than satisfying 😉 Just in the last 1.5 months, I’ve found something that helps me to more easily fall asleep and gives me more restful sleep – creating mosaics. Odd, but it seems to be a creative channel that while I’m doing it is so consuming that work doesn’t cross my mind – very different from every other hobby that I’ve tried where work seeps in since I just don’t seem to get all consumed by the alternate task. I’ve found a relief where I can go for an hour or couple hours on the weekend and not think about work – really, really not think about it. Now, I will admit that some of my sleep has been unsettled recently trying to solve a visual design problem with my mosaic Maybe the tenacious is will always sleep less sound

Hasan

Such a fantastic post, and brutally honest, too. I agree with everything Tony Dimmock and Diane Austin have said. I’m a young professional who dreams of start-ups and taking them big while keeping that family environment intact. If it’s any consolation, Moz and the way I’ve seen it grow/evolve serves as an inspiration for me to keep working hard -I know I’ll get there eventually. While you’ve achieved tremendously at a personal and professional level, you’re inspiring many into following their dreams and deliver value, and that for me ranks much higher than returning x-digit growth/revenue figures.

Thomas

This dark place is not only a curse, but a cure. Think of it like this…without “The Loop”, I doubt you would be where you are. This constant barrage of to-do’s, mishaps, and thoughts that rush through your head, are the result of why you’ve been able to accomplish as much as you have. Some people clock out at 5, we don’t. Don’t let the “The Loop” intimidate you. Use it as a tool as to me it seems like your grasp at the organization of your workload. I can’t say I know the magnitude. The loop is a curse that could be a cure.

http://www.virtualidstudios.com David

Wow, Rand, always impressive. Although I don’t check in often, every personal post or story I’ve read about you I’ve been completely blown away by. Primarily the honesty, openness, balance and humility. The professional SEO advice also shows your humility and balance which is why I, like so many others, have the utmost respect.

About the loop, I’m so thrilled that you saw the coach/therapist. I call mine a mentor, as therepist doesn’t have the greatest connotations, but for you to have the humility and wisdom to do so is awesome. For you to be willing to share that you did and that it’s working is even more so. Learning mindfulness, the ability to control one’s mind and emotions and utilize them effectively is a skill everyone needs to learn in order to deal with all too common challenges. Unfortunately to learn them well, it generally requires the humility to see a coach/mentor/therapist as they rarely get taught effectively elsewhere.

A bit as to why I’m so adamant about the power of mindfulness, and that fact that someone of your influence is testifying to it’s benefit. I’ve had severe debilitating chronic pain for 10 years (finally coming out of it), and when you lose your life, it’s only natural for your mind and emotions to get blown away as well. I resisted a therapist because of stigma, and the one first I saw, a psycho-dynamic, was straight out of the movies and a perfect example of the stereotype that builds stigma. Once I saw a DBT Therapist, which was skills based (mindfulness, etc), it helped radically change my life. It didn’t fix the physical pain, but the mind is extremely powerful and it helped me cope, decrease the experience of the pain, and not only deal with the emotions that came with losing my life, but learn how to utilize my emotions for my betterment. Years of psych training, learning, and practicing, and have helped me to develop a meaningful, quality, and valued life in an impossible situation. I learned that happiness is a skill, rather than a result of our circumstances (http://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work.html ). It has been one of the core life changing concepts for me. It’s the implications that my quality of life, satisfaction, and happiness no longer depend on the unreliable circumstances I’m in (well, a lot less anyway), but on how I respond, interpret, and react to them.

Anyway, all that to say, thank you for your post, thoughts, vulnerability, humility, and the way you’re addressing it with mindfulness and the benefits it’s provided.

PS – Those skills, although seemingly simple, are incredibly powerful when utilized effectively. They can be practical in diverse situations, not just to stave off the negative but to enhance clarity of thought, creativity, productivity, and more. It’s worth continuing and mastering them!
Cheers!

sarahmworthy

Rand – you’re going to make it – you’re going to grow Moz and succeed. You’ve got your head on straight, your heart’s on your sleeve as it should be and you’re growing beyond just early adopters.. you’re about to hit your tipping point! This will be an exciting 2-5 years for your company. Be proud of your work. Cheers, ~S

Stone Create

Thank you. A really heartfelt post.

ww

Thanks for sharing/spilling your guts. You and everyone else below just made me feel normal. Tons of great advice below, you are all troopers. Great Stuff and thank you!

I can both really relate to a lot of this (including the advice) and think it’s remarkable how you can share this stuff publicly and expose yourself / make yourself so vulnerable. Wow. Kudos !

John Parker

Thank you. That’s all I can say. I’m not alone.

John Parker

I have really been thinking about this post today and I really was having the same feelings over the last year. We get so used to achievement when we don’t hit that goal we constantly think about it makes us second guess every little aspect or situation we completed or was involved in. Not hitting a goal when you have always flew past the goals you had set or not improving from a previous quarter or year can really mess your mind up in general. I have always accomplished a goal and set another. I guess it’s just part of being a successful person you are more strict and hard on yourself when learning from problems or issues seems to make ( idk about anyone else) second guessing every little aspect of the past is where we find ourselves. When really the BEST thing to do is take a step back and look around for a little while without looking at the negative. SEO… well internet technology in general is different from other careers. Us SEO’s want everything to be perfect or seem to think about completing our work as its done. I have realized it’s never DONE. I guess that’s where the loop comes in.. Ok enough of my rambles. Life goes on. Look ahead and not behind.

John Parker

is moz being penalized by the new update? is the new moz service considered spam? I think things will be ok but everything IS changing.

Rashed Ahmed

Olima Bazar – Buy Sell easily in Bangladesh.

Olima Bazar delivers largest online marketplace to customers via any connected device, connecting people with the things they need and love.

Such a great, inspirational piece of honesty. The Loop… aka obsessional thinking, what a debilitating thief of time. Well done and best wishes, enjoy the Mindfulness journey and all the wonderful benefits it promotes!

Bart van der Meer

Hey Rand,

I’m currently pretty much a ‘loop’ guy myself. So I remembered this post you wrote a while back.

I am just wondering if, after all these months, you ‘relieved’ yourself of the loop? And what did you do to finally get some sleep?

Reza Mahani

I once asked someone who had spent two years in solitary prison how he could manage it, and he mentioned a book (Man in Search of Meaning, V. Frankl) and a technique that I adopted and helped me with the “Loop” thoughts (combined with other things, like therapy and meditation): He said that he would start his days focusing on the worst possible scenarios and considering all he could do in response, once he did that, he would be able to avoid those thoughts during the day and specially at night … The thoughts that appear in the Loop ARE pretty important and need to be addressed. However, if you spend the day time avoiding them and distracting yourself with work and busy-ness, they will caught up to you at night.

http://www.powerfoolish.blogspot.in Aman Srivastava

Dude, play Dota2.

Howdy! I'm Rand

Co-founder of Moz and Inbound.org, startup junkie, frequent traveler, blogger, social media addict and evangelist of all things TAGFEE. More about me here.