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They do have pheromones but when they go into space they're given medicine to suppress them and take the oath of celibacy while off world.

Bry_Sinclair wrote:

^ Where was that established, like I said I'm a little rusty on my TMP.

Although pheromones are not mentioned, Ilia does deliver the line "My oath of celibacy is on record, Captain" fairly early in the movie. If you jump to approx. 32:00 (theatrical version), you can review the scene in question.

__________________YOU MONOTONE HUMANS ARE ALL ALIKE... FIRST YOU CONDEMN, THEN ATTACK.

Male, female, gay, straight, Orion, Deltan. I don't like the idea of being overwhelmingly attracted to someone because of the way they smell. Its like being drugged to have sex with someone. I don't find it erotic or sexy at all. Exotic maybe.

Off-putting for a Deltan too I'd imagine. Having people fawning over you because they are too immature sexually to control themselves.

Male, female, gay, straight, Orion, Deltan. I don't like the idea of being overwhelmingly attracted to someone because of the way they smell. Its like being drugged to have sex with someone. I don't find it erotic or sexy at all. Exotic maybe.

Off-putting for a Deltan too I'd imagine. Having people fawning over you because they are too immature sexually to control themselves.

If it means anything, the most current research suggests that people don't respond to pheromones of someone from the opposite sex if they are attracted to the same same (as opposed to someone attracted to the opposite sex). Pheromones don't simply put someone in the mood.

Male, female, gay, straight, Orion, Deltan. I don't like the idea of being overwhelmingly attracted to someone because of the way they smell. Its like being drugged to have sex with someone. I don't find it erotic or sexy at all. Exotic maybe.

Off-putting for a Deltan too I'd imagine. Having people fawning over you because they are too immature sexually to control themselves.

If it means anything, the most current research suggests that people don't respond to pheromones of someone from the opposite sex if they are attracted to the same same (as opposed to someone attracted to the opposite sex). Pheromones don't simply put someone in the mood.

I'd be interested in your source material on that. It's the first I've heard of it.

As for the Orion/Deltan pheromones things, keep in mind this was Roddenberry's era and he wasn't particularly subtle at times.

^ The problem with that theory is it doesn't really explain what attracts lesbians and bi-sexuals.

^It only explains how pheromones* work. Sexuality is obviously much more complex than a single biochemical reaction.

*ETA: I should be precise in saying that this refers only to those pheromones associated with sexual arousal in the brain.

Interesting read. Not conclusive evidence it seems, but interesting nonetheless. Certainly back in the 60's/70's Gene didn't know this much and even if he had, Trek's always taken a "magic" approach to science so it might not have changed anyways.

I still have to go with in the end that sexuality is a choice. Either we're sentient beings or we're not and while we may have certain instincts, the conscious mind prevails over that.

Heck, the article itself seems to suggest that given it said the part of the nose that's receptive to pheromones is dormant and I wonder if that's an evolutionary side effect as the species got more intelligent.

I think we still have some sort of animal instincts that sometimes assert themselves. Particularly during rainy seasons, as many people prefer to stay indoors rather than go outside. I figure it's the old instinctual patterns of when our prehistoric ancestors were huddling in caves.

Interesting read. Not conclusive evidence it seems, but interesting nonetheless. Certainly back in the 60's/70's Gene didn't know this much and even if he had, Trek's always taken a "magic" approach to science so it might not have changed anyways.

If such a device is used in future episodes or films, I believe that the writers would be justly taken to task if they failed to explain how "super-pheromones" work with sexual orientation, but also between species. There's no reason to believe that someone would become sexually intoxicated by another species pheromones.

GoRe Star wrote:

I still have to go with in the end that sexuality is a choice. Either we're sentient beings or we're not and while we may have certain instincts, the conscious mind prevails over that.

Heck, the article itself seems to suggest that given it said the part of the nose that's receptive to pheromones is dormant and I wonder if that's an evolutionary side effect as the species got more intelligent.

Which is why I tend to separate sexual orientation and sexual identity. As much as there may a natural attraction to one gender or another (or lack thereof), many individuals will still find pleasure with someone opposite of that orientation. There is much room for sexual creativity above and beyond orientation, and I think that in-universe it would be the best explanation for why Riker felt so strongly about Soren.

Interesting read. Not conclusive evidence it seems, but interesting nonetheless. Certainly back in the 60's/70's Gene didn't know this much and even if he had, Trek's always taken a "magic" approach to science so it might not have changed anyways.

If such a device is used in future episodes or films, I believe that the writers would be justly taken to task if they failed to explain how "super-pheromones" work with sexual orientation, but also between species. There's no reason to believe that someone would become sexually intoxicated by another species pheromones.

GoRe Star wrote:

I still have to go with in the end that sexuality is a choice. Either we're sentient beings or we're not and while we may have certain instincts, the conscious mind prevails over that.

Heck, the article itself seems to suggest that given it said the part of the nose that's receptive to pheromones is dormant and I wonder if that's an evolutionary side effect as the species got more intelligent.

Which is why I tend to separate sexual orientation and sexual identity. As much as there may a natural attraction to one gender or another (or lack thereof), many individuals will still find pleasure with someone opposite of that orientation. There is much room for sexual creativity above and beyond orientation, and I think that in-universe it would be the best explanation for why Riker felt so strongly about Soren.

Well all the races in Trek seem to be able to interbreed. Human/Vulcans, Trill/Klingons, Human/Trill, Bajoran/Cardassian, Human/Klingon, Human/Romulan and so forth. So by the logic presented -in the Trek universe- I guess I could see pheromones working cross-racially since they're all apparently genetically compatible.

It's an interesting point you make about sexual identity vs orientation. I'm not sure I distinguish completely between the two, at the very least they seem to overlap to me. Though you make a good point about the pleasure part of it being possible with someone that doesn't conform to either. Riker definitely is a good point, though Soren(before they "corrected" her) just gave the vibe that she saw a penis for the first time and was into that. If that episode was supposed to be about the rights of homosexuals they kinda misaligned the message.

But really if we ever do get into space and are interacting with completely alien species, that is gonna screw with people's sexual identifications(pardon the pun). "Not all species keep their genitals in the same place, Captain." Kim hinted at this too with his girlfriend from the Disease just describing it as "different." I got the hint that the parts didn't exactly line up traditionally there.

Male, female, gay, straight, Orion, Deltan. I don't like the idea of being overwhelmingly attracted to someone because of the way they smell. Its like being drugged to have sex with someone. I don't find it erotic or sexy at all. Exotic maybe.

Off-putting for a Deltan too I'd imagine. Having people fawning over you because they are too immature sexually to control themselves.

Personally I do too and for the Deltans it just doesn't fit with them. For a race where sex is an integral part of their society they don't need pheromones to attract potential mates, for them talking about who stuck what in where the night before would be like humans discussing the weather, and since they don't seem to have sex with other races they see as being too inferior for their intercourse then they have no need for a biology that allows them to attract other species.

Anytime I use Deltans I have never given them super-pheromones, as it just seems unnecessary. I find the Oath a far more interesting angle on their culture, and what they'd had to do to "fit it" with the rest of the galaxy.