It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

I'd rather have that sort of Roman Catholic than an ultra trad that believes we're condemned to hellfire.

And non-denominationals are doctrinally Protestant (or some derivative), so of course they're less inclined to act like we're just the same - Orthodox are idolatrous with their cave paintings, after all.

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Best description of the situation I ever heard.

The issue is that this is the non-official official discourse these days, even among some Orthodox. Here in Brazil, with the exception of the Russians, it's the rule of the line "the only difference is the filioque and pope, and even that is just a lame excuse for politics, but we're so loving and past that". It's common that anyone take communion - *anyone*, in some cases not even being a Christian.

Truth is that there is a certain kind of ecumenists who want to force union through a "ex post facto" strategy, that is, we will simply act as if we were already united - because the differences are "irrelevant" - and the lot of you gotta deal with it after it is already happening in fact. They know that study and conversation would forbid that, so let's just "skip" all this bureaucracy.

The "we are not that different at all" discourse is what fundaments and prepare people for this "ex post facto" union. The priests and lay people - Roman or Orthodox - who raise their hand to say it's wrong will be treated as evil unloving medievals because "everybody knows we're not that different".

Traditional schismastics think we are going to hell because they can't see what is common. Ecumenists think nobody is going to hell because they can't see what is different. I don't want any of these two schools.

Just on a sidenote, I do suppose that this discourse is an attempt at social engineering by some hierarchs and intellectuals in both sides.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 09:56:30 PM by Fabio Leite »

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Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

I know exactly what you mean, the only difference is that when I tell them I'm an old calendarist they either have no idea what I'm talking about or assume that I'm a matthewite and that I hate them or something and slowly back away. I just don't understand anything in the RCs anymore...

1. swag Orginally from the Scottish slang word "swagger" which was a description of the way some Scots walk (in a swaying motion), the word was then misinterpreted by the English as "the way someone presents themselves". Eg, whether someone looks cool. The word quickly made its way to the states and has ever since become the catchphrase of I have no words to substitute what you wrote which was in clear violation of ethics and oc.net rules. -username! section moderatorPerson 1: "I think that guy off Jersey Shore has swag"

swag1 [swag] Show IPA noun, verb, swagged, swag·ging.noun1.a suspended wreath, garland, drapery, or the like, fastened up at or near each end and hanging down in the middle; festoon.2.a wreath, spray, or cluster of foliage, flowers, or fruit.3.a festoon, especially one very heavy toward the center.4.a swale.5.a swaying or lurching movement.verb (used without object)6.to move heavily or unsteadily from side to side or up and down; sway.7.to hang loosely and heavily; sink down.

Know your Meme website:“Swag” is an internet slang term often found in comments, discussion forums and image macros used as a synonym for “swagger,” a type of style or presence that exudes confidence and is sometimes interpreted as arrogance.

I know exactly what you mean, the only difference is that when I tell them I'm an old calendarist they either have no idea what I'm talking about or assume that I'm a matthewite and that I hate them or something and slowly back away. I just don't understand anything in the RCs anymore...

Also, swag=Secretly We Are Gay... Just saying

You are hereby officially warned for 40 days per language. You ought to know better than to use foul language like that on a Christian forum. If you feel you have not used curse words and that your mother would be totally happy with you using said language in front of your bishop then feel free to appeal it to the higher ups. -username! section moderator. Also you can not copy and paste something without the link. You have 24 hours to provide the link for the above definition or you will be placed on post moderation.

You were asked here to provide a link for the definition of swag you used. You didn't comply to the 24hour request. That was two violations in one post. Welcome to 2 weeks post moderation. -username! Section moderator.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 10:23:14 PM by username! »

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Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

Translating from "Adolescenteese" to English the title of the thread could be

"Why are Roman Catholics always trying to act as if they had the same traits and characteristics that make us unique and special and as if we were the same thing?" hence the very proper comparison with the kid who wants to hang with the cooller older boys but has absolutely nothing to do with them, clueless about his own identity.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 10:26:39 PM by Fabio Leite »

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Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.

Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 10:44:14 PM by Achronos »

Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

Speak for yourself Schismatic..........how's that better?

That's a first.

Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

No, not really.

We can't?

Quote

However, there are circumstances when non-Catholics may receive Communion from a Catholic priest. This is especially the case when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians, who share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments:

"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

" maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?"- OP

What's this "we" stuff sucka, we outnumber you and the heretics two to one at least.

not in this neck of the woods. and there's a real question on your numbers in your stronghold (at least formerly) of Latin America.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

No, not really.

We can't?

Quote

However, there are circumstances when non-Catholics may receive Communion from a Catholic priest. This is especially the case when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians, who share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments:

"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

No, not really.

We can't?

Quote

However, there are circumstances when non-Catholics may receive Communion from a Catholic priest. This is especially the case when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians, who share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments:

"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

No, not really.

We can't?

Quote

However, there are circumstances when non-Catholics may receive Communion from a Catholic priest. This is especially the case when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians, who share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments:

"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

It just seems like with almost every Roman Catholic I have met, whenever they discover that I am Orthodox, they end up acting real friendly and ecumenical--saying that we're "the same" or that the differences aren't really that big. The most false ecumenism I get comes from Roman Catholics--not even "non-denominationals" are as ecumenical as the Roman Catholics I have met. They're kind of like that annoying kid at school who no one in your group of friends really likes, but he still hangs around you and follows your group anyway acting like he's all a part of the gang and everything.

Is this sense of false ecumenism with the Orthodox a normal trend for Roman Catholics, or is it just something among the American Roman Catholic world? Like, maybe the reason they are so friendly and falsely ecumenical with the Orthodox is because we're both religious minorities in their eyes in the domain of Evangelical Protestantism?

One of my really good friends is Roman Catholic, but he acts like a Protestant. He says we "are the same" too, and look we can partake of their eucharist as well.Their eccelsiology is kinda screwed up.

No, not really.

We can't?

Quote

However, there are circumstances when non-Catholics may receive Communion from a Catholic priest. This is especially the case when it comes to Eastern Orthodox Christians, who share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments:

"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Edit to JamesR: They act like that and say those things because they believe it, because that's the RC line; "We have nearly everything in common...", as one of their encyclicals said. I don't see it, but then I left that behind some time ago, so of course I wouldn't see it that way. Personally, I can't really imagine two more dissimilar churches, but hey...~450 (or ~1054) years of history isn't nothing, so it'd probably be best to use those times when you're annoyed at your RC friends' assertions to explain to them the Orthodox viewpoint on these matters. If you don't, maybe they'll never hear it and continue to believe the Vatican when they say that we're like two peas in a pod.

I know exactly what you mean, the only difference is that when I tell them I'm an old calendarist they either have no idea what I'm talking about or assume that I'm a matthewite

So what jurisdiction are you?

HOTCA

Makes difference.

I went to the HOTCA web site. Are they considered Orthodox by most Orthodox? It appears there are some disagreements between them and the (official?) Greek Orthodox. I get a little muddled when trying to figure out which Churches commune with which other Churches.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

So you would prefer we say you're all heretics and schismatics because you don't believe in the filioque and papal infallibility and immaculate conception?

Logged

Quote from: Michael, Pope of Rome

We should fortify ourselves with the truths of the Faith. Our main focus should be to become saints. Unfortunately some spend much of their time in either trying to sort things out or what is worse, trying to convince the world that they are right. If we all aim at sanctifying ourselves, God will intervene and He will straighten things out. We cannot do it without Him.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Is there a middle ground consisting of people who know the differences are serious but want to keep the lines of communication open for charity's sake?

If there is, I'd be in it.

After all if the differences weren't serious then we wouldn't be out of communion, would we? But we can attempt to talk through them and maybe eventually one side will realize it is wrong. With God all things are possible, right?

But saying there isn't much difference over issues that were anathema-worthy at the time is highly disingenuous. And...adding the filioque unilaterally was clearly the biggest mistake Rome ever made.

Logged

Quote from: Michael, Pope of Rome

We should fortify ourselves with the truths of the Faith. Our main focus should be to become saints. Unfortunately some spend much of their time in either trying to sort things out or what is worse, trying to convince the world that they are right. If we all aim at sanctifying ourselves, God will intervene and He will straighten things out. We cannot do it without Him.

And here lies the big issue. Currently, Rome is unable to confess it made any mistake. John Paull II did apologize for some things, clearly opening precedents for people to accept that yes, Rome may commit mistakes. But as of now, to confess that a doctrine that existed in only one see by definition cannot be catholic, and yet, it was adopted as infallible, is far too much.

Is there a middle ground consisting of people who know the differences are serious but want to keep the lines of communication open for charity's sake?

If there is, I'd be in it.

After all if the differences weren't serious then we wouldn't be out of communion, would we? But we can attempt to talk through them and maybe eventually one side will realize it is wrong. With God all things are possible, right?

But saying there isn't much difference over issues that were anathema-worthy at the time is highly disingenuous. And...adding the filioque unilaterally was clearly the biggest mistake Rome ever made.

Logged

Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

So you would prefer we say you're all heretics and schismatics because you don't believe in the filioque and papal infallibility and immaculate conception?

That would be sincere.

Well we agree on one thing then. That would be consistent with what our Councils say.

Instead, seems like we Catholics are in an era of treating "infallible" Catholic ecumenical councils as not quite so infallible, even as far back as Chalcedon, for the sake of "promoting Christian unity". It's a bit of a denial that the Church is the mystical Body of the Way, the Truth and the Life, don't you think?

Logged

Quote from: Michael, Pope of Rome

We should fortify ourselves with the truths of the Faith. Our main focus should be to become saints. Unfortunately some spend much of their time in either trying to sort things out or what is worse, trying to convince the world that they are right. If we all aim at sanctifying ourselves, God will intervene and He will straighten things out. We cannot do it without Him.

I really do feel bad for you James, if you have to endure the horrible experience of Catholics saying we have a lot in common. There is nothing worse than a Catholic who points out all the things that Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism have in common. In fact, what you should do is start crafting differences that don't exist for the purpose of throwing these Catholics off your trail.

Logged

"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.