Saturday, June 19, 2010

I know this post is not going to be popular with the locals. It took a lot of guts for Russell Norman to stand alone and trouble our conscience. I watched that tape a few times to form my own conclusion. It is the heart of our democracy that peaceful protest is allowed. Dr Norman was standing where he was entitled to stand, making a peaceful protest. Foreign guests decided they would interfere with a duly elected Member of the New Zealand Parliament undertaking lawful activity.

The police decision not to follow up is a lame excuse. They have photographic evidence and could easily identify the individuals as they leave the country tomorrow. Apart from one officer towards the end they failed in their duty to protect a New Zealand politician from assault.

John Key is taking a see no evil approach. I understand it but I think a little less of him because of it.

If we cannot stand up for the democratic rights of our countrymen, even when you disagree with them, then we have lost something of our freedom and our democracy. As it happens I agree with the action of Dr Norman and salute him. We should trade with China for the benefits trade brings, but we should never forget, and we should never allow them to forget, that democracy, human rights and self determination are important. That is not what the Anzacs fought for.

As usual, it doesn't surprise me that some right-wingers will turn up here and back a totalitarian dictatorship against democracy. It does surprise me that they'll go so far as to endorse a foreign dictator's enforcers manhandling a New Zealand MP exercising his democratic rights in the New Zealand Parliament. That really is a new low...

The right-wing dim-bulbery is worse than initially imagined (not for the first time). Tibet has much to do with it as the price of artichokes, you cretins. Let me spell it out for you, thickos:

In theory, a NZ MP has the right to hold up a flag or other symbol of protest on the grounds of Parliament.

In theory, Chinese security guards visiting NZ's Parliament must stick to protecting their contemptible representative of totalitarianism and refrain from assaulting elected representatives of the NZ people.

Unless you're a right-wing liberthauritarian - in that case, contemptible representatives of totalitarianism trampling the rights of elected MPs is a sight to be enjoyed and praised.

Noone disagrees with you that the MP had a right to protest or to "hold up a flag".

Rod Donald undertook a silent dignified protest.

But that isnt what Norman was doing is it?

The ginga whinger broke through a security cordon to attempt his grandstanding.

He could have done a dignified protest, but he chose not to.

He embarassed New Zealand.

How hard is that to understand?

Its nothing about manhandling an "elected" representative. Its about an "elected" member of Parliament deliberately trying to create an international incident in order to generate some publicity and poll traffic for his sorry party.

It is also about our DPS and police FAILING to do their duty to protect a visiting dignatory.

But its much easier to resort to childish insults about rightwingers isnt it milt.

In this case, nobody has any right to hold up a flag in the grounds of parliament unless he or she has the prior approval of Mr Speaker. Had such approval been sought on this occasion, most certainly it would have been denied. [See the example (at Kiwiblog) of Rod Donald and his protest in which the Speaker laid down strict conditions.]

The green commie prick was not manhandled for holding a flag, he was manhandled for being a threat to the safety of a visiting dignitary. The only thing wrong about this whole episode is that the dumb arses who are OUR security people fell down on the job and left it to their Chinese colleagues to restrain this gibbering foreign trouble maker.

I hope our Prime Minister has given the head of the DPS the first class dressing down he deserves.

The green commie prick was not manhandled for holding a flag, he was manhandled for being a threat to the safety of a visiting dignitary.

High-grade bullshit. He was trying to get the visiting Piece of Shit to notice a flag.

The only thing wrong about this whole episode is that the dumb arses who are OUR security people fell down on the job and left it to their Chinese colleagues to restrain this gibbering foreign trouble maker.

OUR security people recognise that people have a right to protest without authoritarian thugs attacking them. They certainly did fall down on their job of protecting Donald from said thugs, but presumably the weasel Key won't be giving them a bollocking about that - he's used to greasing up to shitty characters if there's money in it.

I hope our Prime Minister has given the head of the DPS the first class dressing down he deserves.

Like I said, highly unlikely - as unlikely as the Speaker giving Key the bollocking he deserves.

Adolf - Norman provoked an incident by being there. That is the point. He was exercising his and our democratic right.

If US security had been there they would have established from local security that he was in fact a harmless local exercising his democratic right of protest and would have been blocked by a small wall of security who would have ensured they did not touch him but equally did not prevent him from moving forward.

The justifications on the basis of supporting medieval hereditary dictatorships miss the point entirely. Actually Tibetans were comfortable with that style of government and have their right to make those decisions. The Dalai Lama is a man of peace.

I agree that Rod Donald made a far more dignified protest than Russell Norman. But both had every right to be exactly where they were.

The speaker has the right to ban a member from parliament when there is a transgression but not without cause.

anon 10:50 - That is not what I meant at all. Democracy is not the most important thing, it is self determination. There was not widespread civil unrest in Tibet against the leadership before China took over. You cannot simply impose Western standard democracy everywhere if the local people prefer a different form of governance. Every answer and every situation is nuanced. Your point about barbarism in certain Islamic countries is a cheap shot

Actually Sagenz by definition you don't get "self determination" in a dictatorship.

Its why saddam hussein always got 98% of the vote of his grateful people.

Its why the North Koreans always love Kim il Jong

(its also why the Labour party still loves Helen Clark!)

self determination implies free will and the free right to consider alternatives without consequence.

Pre-1948 Tibetans had none of those rights. Opposing the Monks meant at best severe punishment, at worse death. This is what a religious theocracy means.

But hey, don't let facts, history or logic get in the way of how you"feel" about the issue.

Hence my point - Norman was protesting in support of a regime he BY DEFINITION couldnt support - if he had any principles - against a regime that he personally is strongly in favour of (communist dictatorship) while pretending he is concerned about democracy (rather than trying to get on the frontpage of the paper and move his poll rankings).

Norman was protesting in support of a regime he BY DEFINITION couldnt support

Lots of "Greens derangement syndrome" on this thread. Those of us who haven't let hatred of the Greens fry our sense of logic are able to figure out that China doesn't actually have a right to annex and colonise other countries. It's not rocket science.

What is evident form the ranting of this MP Huo here is that his mindset is not that of a New Zealander, nor that of an independent thinker, but clearly that of a proxy for the Han CCP who managed to infiltrate NZ politics.All their nauseating propaganda lies find their place of pride in this sordid expose of Han racism, against a people the Han Chinese obviously regard as so inferior, and unworthy of being accorded the international rule of law.For one the right to self determination as the PRC has signed up to under the UN Charter.Or all the other conventions covering Human Rights, Freedom of Religion, or Freedom of whatever hue.But of course laws, agreements, human rights or international conventions they are bound by mean silch to the Han CCP, and obviously the Chinese community in NZ.They demand an apology from Norman, well what are they here in NZ for?They obviously treat NZ as a colony of the Han empire and think of themselves as the Han overlords of this territory, just as they think of all the occupied territories, Tibet, Mongolia, East Turkestan etc as theirs and for them to rape, pillage, oppress and destroy at will, and no other country dare interfere in “China’s internal affairs”!They obviously never think of themselves as Kiwis!What arrogance!An exhibitions expounding all the ‘cruelty and barbarity’ of the “old Tibet” has been held in NZ.So, are we now reduced to hosting such obnoxiously racist exhibitions on our soil!The mere fact that the Han Chinese regime forces this nauseating concoction of fabricated lies to vilify and denigrate the Tibetan people on the world at large is a disgrace and the height of racist depravity.Even if there were a grain of truth in any of these concocted smears Huo is referring to, it still would amount to the same; the Han Chinese have been an absurdly racist creed throughout history, and it seems their newfound wealth in the 21st century has only strengthened this arrogance and ignominy.

http://sites.google.com/site/onejustworld/

Read this article and get some appreciation of what the Tibetan / Han Chinese relationship really is all about, and then make up your mind!