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I trusted my boyfriend when he told me his result was negative. If we didn't take the chance to trust someone in our lives then no babies would ever be born I guess....otherwise people would use condoms even if they thought they were in a monogomous relationship. Anyway, I wouldn't have my gorgeous son, so it's my silver lining around my dark cloud.

There are just too many "the checks in the mail" and "I won't cum in your mouth" stories. People admit to barebacking and then fall all over themselves denying that might have been the source of their infection.

There are just too many "the checks in the mail" and "I won't cum in your mouth" stories. People admit to barebacking and then fall all over themselves denying that might have been the source of their infection.

You criticize other people's stories without sharing your own. Since you have shown such an interest in this thread, why didn't safer sex work with you?

This is a good post. I came out in the mid 90's and at the time was scared to death of ever thinking of having bb sex. I remember it being somewhat taboo and even porno's you couldn't hardly find movies that portrayed it. I think as the years moved on and as i got older things that seemed taboo and have became very intriguing to me.

The long story short I just got relaxed in my thinking and thought that i was a good judge of who was neg and who was poz and i sort of got the 'i dont care' mindset. I dont think the majority of guys infect others on purpose, they just simply dont know their own status. I never blamed the guy that infected me, i allowed him to penetrate without a condom because i wanted the sex and as most know when you are in that moment of passion its hard to say stop let me grab a condom.

First, loved the post about the influences, negative especially, that helped to shape who and what we are.

They aren't an excuse, but certainly do set the stage.

When AIDS reared its ugly head, I was living in one of the epicenters - Los Angeles.

I had had rampant, skin-to-skin butt sex with thousands of men during the 1970s and early 1980s. Sometimes the top, sometimes the bottom. These men were from all parts of the globe (someday I will recount my experiences with a German merchant marine.)

I had memberships to many bathhouses across the U.S., including one in Hollywood that was located right across the street from the USO! Talk about location, location, location!

We had no idea we were passing the bum flu at the time.

My first doc thinks I may been infect in 1980, the spring of 1980. Yes darlings, that would give me 31 years with the bug.

I only count 26 of them, well, almost 26 of them, cause that is how long ago I came up positive.

But, even when people started dropping faster than republican IQs, I still didn't instantly jump into the safer sex handbasket.

Give me a few cocktails and nose full of cola, and I would dance the dirty mambo with the best of them.

I didn't actually start to get serious about safer sex, and taking better care of myself, until the late 80s, early 90s. Of course, by that time, it was way too late.

As one of the few people still alive who can remember what sex was like B.A., I thought I would just give a different perspective.

Safer sex messages didn't really work for me until I actually paid attention.

So why even bother to ask, if you aren't going to accept the answer ? The answer will still be the same.

I would guess that the question is asked in hopes of getting the truth.

The point of this thread is to get people accept the fact that we're all pretty much here because we didn't get "The Message" With very few exceptions, safe sex didn't work for us because we ignored the facts. That's why we're infected. The whole "Immaculate Infection" thing is viewed with a jaunduced eye.

There's a reason such stories are not believed. Because for the most part, they're unbelievable.

I would guess that the question is asked in hopes of getting the truth.

The point of this thread is to get people accept the fact that we're all pretty much here because we didn't get "The Message" With very few exceptions, safe sex didn't work for us because we ignored the facts. That's why we're infected. The whole "Immaculate Infection" thing is viewed with a jaunduced eye.

There's a reason such stories are not believed. Because for the most part, they're unbelievable.

CaptCarl

I'm sure there are many who lie, or believe their own lies, or remember things as they weren't, in order to protect themselves from blame. We often want to believe we weren't at fault in many things--car accidents, arguments, divorces, etc. But, things like this do happen. I've heard at least 10 women friends say they were concerned about a broken condom. They were just worried about pregnancy. I've had a few tell me about catching guys trying to take the condom off. And, I've heard of a few women who purposely didn't take their birth control or put needle holes into condoms in order to get pregnant. They seem like stories people make up, but they do happen.

Well,I'll just say I don't know how I got infected and that really sucks!All I remember is in early November,I had "protected" sex with a "bareback" brand of thin latex condom which I do not remember breaking only to learn later that the ish hit the fan.I now understand when someone blames a broken condom,blow job going bad etc.That does not a liar make them,just an unlucky fella.

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"Those who pray hundred times a day are not necessarily better than those who masturbate a couple of times a day"......

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I'm sure there are many who lie, or believe their own lies, or remember things as they weren't, in order to protect themselves from blame. We often want to believe we weren't at fault in many things--car accidents, arguments, divorces, etc. But, things like this do happen. I've heard at least 10 women friends say they were concerned about a broken condom. They were just worried about pregnancy. I've had a few tell me about catching guys trying to take the condom off. And, I've heard of a few women who purposely didn't take their birth control or put needle holes into condoms in order to get pregnant. They seem like stories people make up, but they do happen.

The problem with all that is the 'Padian Study' and how very rare it is for someone to seroconvert because of 1 or even a handful of 'broken' condoms.The 'Padian Study' *proved* that the 'it only takes one time' to seroconvert to be a fallacy. In practice and real life, it takes a lot more than that.That's the thing about this thread.There are so many posts about how it was because of 'oral' sex (another virtual impossibility unless the receiver had badly bleeding gums or ulcers and still rare even then), or just 'one' bareback incident or broken condom - or none at all!If anyone in the dissident community read this thread they would see it as proof of the '76 ways in which someone can test HIV+ that don't mean they're positive' and the dozens of 'cross-reactive' reasons for testing positive because of vaccinations, Hep A B or C infection, or gut dysbiosis (caused by very bad diet/poppers/heavy antibiotic use/heavy recreational drug use) causing a flood of pathogenic antigens into the blood stream causing a positive test for HIV antibodies.And if it isn't that, then peoples false memory syndrome is a big thing.

Something was missing in my interpretation of this thread since I first read it. After thinking about it for a few days now, I realized what the missing element was. "Safe sex" and sex ed focused on not getting a GIRL pregnant. Since homosexuality was so sinful, there was no education concerning how to have great butt sex while maintaining safety. The worst thing that would happen in those days were 18 years of child support and I wasn't exactly too worried about that. We didn't have access to real world data and all we knew was what was spewed by those we trusted.

I've never discussed the specifics of my infection mostly because it's kinda irrelevant in the grand scope of things personally. Bill is the only man I've ever had sober sex with. I guess the "drunk" justification worked for many in those days. Add alcohol and hot men, and correct thought processes went to the trash pile. I do think the message is getting through to many. My 20 year old gay nephew shares everything with me. Perhaps growing up with a gay uncle with AIDS hit too close to home. I laughed when he told me he has only slept with 2 men. I slept with that many men on a single weekend, and that's when I was straight....lol

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

Something was missing in my interpretation of this thread since I first read it. After thinking about it for a few days now, I realized what the missing element was. "Safe sex" and sex ed focused on not getting a GIRL pregnant. Since homosexuality was so sinful, there was no education concerning how to have great butt sex while maintaining safety. The worst thing that would happen in those days were 18 years of child support and I wasn't exactly too worried about that. We didn't have access to real world data and all we knew was what was spewed by those we trusted.

I never had to worry about any of that getting a GIRL pregnant shit, as I've been shooting blanks all of my life, and found this out when I was only 16 so for me, the sky was the limit, even with other gay men

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

After posting, I thought about my own response. I'm not sure education would have worked. I had to sleep with lots of girls in highschool to maintain my image. I managed to get one pregnant and even married her for a minute.

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

After posting, I thought about my own response. I'm not sure education would have worked. I had to sleep with lots of girls in highschool to maintain my image. I managed to get one pregnant and even married her for a minute.

Well your none the worse for it, so don't beat yourself up over it, I got married back in 83, and never got a divorce, it was recently that me & my other half found out that she had died of an over-dose in 97, I feltsad & guilty over it, but, her demise wasn't any of my fault w/ that said it's important for all of us to acceptjust how we all got infected, I've already done this many yrs. ago, so really I'm over it

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 01:32:32 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

I would never date a man who was still married to a woman. That's just how my mother raised me.

And yes, I once ditched a hot guy over that. Plus he was psychotic.

love ya baby boy, be careful out there w/ all them psychotic menI wouldn't want anything to bad the happen to you, I'd have to come to Philly PA and kill a mother fucker that has hurt you, I'm crazy weird that way

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 04:18:12 PM by denb45 »

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

I was madly in love with the man from whom I acquired my infection. He was the love of my life and still is today. We got back together in 2007 after splitting up in 1997 - ironically I seroconverted about a week or so after we split up.

I always knew that he was screwing other women, but I turned a blind eye to it because I loved him that much. I never insisted on condoms because I was afraid he would refuse and get his sex elsewhere all of the time, instead of just now and then. I had huge self-esteem issues back then. If I thought more of myself I would have either insisted on condoms or fidelity or both. I was too scared of losing him.

I always knew I was at risk through him for something like chlamydia, but never thought I was at risk for hiv. This was in part because he worked in Africa as an aide worker during much of the '90s and had to be tested for hiv every three months as a term of his employment. It never occurred to me that he could have been infected after he quit that line of work (and stopped testing regularly as a result). Going by what the media always says about hiv, neither of us were in a risk group so I just didn't think about it.

Too bad I didn't understand back then that where sex is concerned, the only true risk group is that group of people who have unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with people of unknown or positive hiv status.

I knew how hiv was and was not transmitted and how to prevent infection. But I was stupid in the extreme to believe the hype about risk groups.

I never stopped loving him, not even when we were diagnosed in 2001. We both changed a lot in those ten years we were apart. For me, being diagnosed was the impetus to work on my self-esteem issues (which played a big part in splitting us up - I was one needy bitch) and for him, being diagnosed made him realise the value of fidelity - and more importantly, the value of condoms.

So why didn't the prevention messages work for me? Because I was told and reassured that I wasn't in a risk group and therefore didn't need to worry about it. I suppose that is also why it didn't work for him.

What scares me is that so many people today still believe the risk group bullshit. I've lost count of the times my poz straight men friends have had people assume that they're gay or have had sex with other men, because allegedly, straight men don't get teh aids. I even see that attitude here in the forums and it just astounds me.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

So why didn't the prevention messages work for me? Because I was told and reassured that I wasn't in a risk group and therefore didn't need to worry about it. I suppose that is also why it didn't work for him.

What scares me is that so many people today still believe the risk group bullshit. I've lost count of the times my poz straight men friends have had people assume that they're gay or have had sex with other men, because allegedly, straight men don't get teh aids. I even see that attitude here in the forums and it just astounds me.

I hate that kinda attitude here in this forum, and I cannot wrap my mind around any of it, maybe causeI know that EVERYONE can get teh AIDS, regardless of being str8, or LGBT, at least I always knew what the risk factor was , I was the one that put that dirty needle into my arm in SOMA in S.F. so, I only have myself to blame for my actions, and no one else

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

What scares me is that so many people today still believe the risk group bullshit. I've lost count of the times my poz straight men friends have had people assume that they're gay or have had sex with other men, because allegedly, straight men don't get teh aids. I even see that attitude here in the forums and it just astounds me.

As I mentioned in a post above, I also got it from someone I was very much in love with and what I think is funny is that, even as a gay man, I also bought into the "risk group" thing. In my case, by the time I got it and was diagnosed the risk group talk in the media was subdivided so they didn't even talk about gay men in general but said that most new cases were coming from young latino and black gay men in cities such as DC, which made me think (LOL!) that as a "white, middle aged, middle class" gay man I wasn't as much at risk. I know, it sounds ridiculous.

The bottom line is what Ann said: where sex is concerned, the only true risk group is that group of people who have unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with people of unknown or positive hiv status.

but said that most new cases were coming from young latino and black gay men in cities such as DC, which made me think (LOL!) that as a "white, middle aged, middle class" gay man I wasn't as much at risk. I know, it sounds ridiculous.

What scares me is that so many people today still believe the risk group bullshit. I've lost count of the times my poz straight men friends have had people assume that they're gay or have had sex with other men, because allegedly, straight men don't get teh aids. I even see that attitude here in the forums and it just astounds me.

Unfortunately, the existence of some straight men without a single same-sex experience ever, and some straight women without a single sex experience with a bisexual man or IV drug user who are 'HIV+' has not changed the figures around risk groups either in the USA, or especially in Europe.And it is *not* because all those 100% straight boys and girls are practising safer sex. They are not.But the numbers/percentages are virtuallly no different now to 25 years ago and the risk groups in the West are the same - Gay men and IV Drug users.That doesn't mean to say straight guys/girls shouldn't practice safer sex but the simple facts are that they are at a tiny fraction of the risk that MSM and IV Drug users are.That just happens to be epidemiological fact. The truth is the great 'straight' HIV epidemic in the West simply never happened and it is silly to pretend it did or that it is ever likely to happen.

I never had to worry about any of that getting a GIRL pregnant shit, as I've been shooting blanks all of my life, and found this out when I was only 16 so for me, the sky was the limit, even with other gay men

Wait a minute... go back a bit. How does a gay 16 year old male work out he's shooting blanks? It's not a routine test that my dr gave me at that age.

Why do plane crash?Because we people are not good at constant monitoring of flight controls.The same thing with sex.I only had one unsafe sex in my life and that's it.The guy was recently infected and had a high viral load, and the chance of infection soared from 0.0001% to 100 %. I didn't know he had HIV. I happened to sleep with him to forget my ex (I was going thru post-break-up depression). So, even LTR kinda guys can get HIV. It has nothing to due with being promiscuous. On the contrary, I think promiscuous people are more clever and do avoid being affected.

I've slept with ''only'' 7 people and have HIV, and a friend of mine has slept with over 500 people and he is HIV-free. He is clever. I am dumb.

The risk of infection after one sexual intercourse can be as high as 100% if one person has high viral load (which is frequent in recently infected people). This is what most safe campaigns fail to highlight.

Yesterday I forgot to take my pills at 8 pm. I was taking a nap and I didn't hear the alarm.But somehow I woke up at 11 pm and took them.

It's difficult for a human brain to check repetitive continual actions.You have to remind yourself constantly about something.How many people are run over just because they forget to check if there's a car going or not.

Wow, some thread. I was a bonehead, basically ignored every safe sex message. lots of bareback, anon, group play. sometimes partied. actually played raw once with a guy i met in the waiting room of the STD clinic. At the gym or on the street I still see some of the hotties I played with at steamworks, private parties, etc, and every one of them has also been tagged (but only some of them are still hot). So no one-time slip-up, cheating bf, or other more sympathetic story for me.

Wow, some thread. I was a bonehead, basically ignored every safe sex message. lots of bareback, anon, group play. sometimes partied. actually played raw once with a guy i met in the waiting room of the STD clinic. At the gym or on the street I still see some of the hotties I played with at steamworks, private parties, etc, and every one of them has also been tagged (but only some of them are still hot). So no one-time slip-up, cheating bf, or other more sympathetic story for me.

When you were having lots of bareback sex did you think about HIV? I'm not asking in any judgmental way, I'm genuinely curious. I had a friend who I lost touch with who also slept around a lot and I was never able to ask him if he ever worried he might get HIV.

It was the late 80's, I was a shy and prudish nineteen year old living in rural NC, and I honestly had no idea that HIV/AIDS was something that I needed to be concerned about...

Every movie-of-the-week and cheesy after-school-special told me that 1) AIDS was a "big city" disease and that 2) the infected were as easy to spot and avoid as a reanimated corpse in a George A. Romero film.

The religious right had me believing that you could only get the HIV if you lived a "licentious" lifestyle of bathhouses, drugs, and orgies... damn, if I had only known that this one wasn't true

And the only exceptions to these rules that I ever saw on the news and talk shows of the time were the rare hemophiliacs and other folks who had received tainted transfusions... and Rock Hudson.

Like others mention, though, having access to better information regarding actual risk and prevention likely wouldn't have made much of a difference to me at that age... I was invincible... and far too horny!

After reading the posts I can tell you exactly the reason why the safe sex message did not work for me! Laziness, living the moment, if it happens its the price for being gay!

In the Latino community (in my neck of the woods), we have this preconceived notion that the persons appearance determines their status. Hell the guy has a wife he cant be infected or we assume the other person would be responsible when in fact we should be responsible for ourselves. yeah we have the DL in the latino community too lol lol

It doesnt matter how many times you tell someone that unprotected sex can kill ya! We all know that! Its the "Not me!" mentality that wins

To answer the question, no I was not thinking about HIV. I was thinking about the hot dude banging me, and the guy behind him. At some level I suppose I embraced the risk, viewed myself as a nasty bad boy, etc.

To answer the question, no I was not thinking about HIV. I was thinking about the hot dude banging me, and the guy behind him. At some level I suppose I embraced the risk, viewed myself as a nasty bad boy, etc.

Like Ford, I was lazy, and I guess too comfortable. A year and a half of dating, then we moved in together and shortly after that stopped using condoms. Shortly after that I had what I think was serconversion symptoms, and 2 years later was diagnosed +. I saw a good many friends die from AIDS prior to that, but I think I thought that since I was in a monogamous relationship I was past the danger zone.

I respect Dawson and all that he has accomplished theatrically, and I'm sure the 50 guys and Gilead appreciate his heroism that weekend. My bad boy achievements were far more modest; the line behind me was much shorter and at least didn't look as downtrodden as Dawson"s team

Well, I had unsafe sex before, but with one or two girls and with guys I really trusted, who got tested and stuff. But in the last few months I was feeling down and I kinda let it all out having sex with several guys in a short time. I did want raw sex, but I tried to avoid it, especially with people who were active seeking it out, since I knew they would probably have HIV. But with two guys with whom I initially started out with a condom, we ended up doing it without. Only once with each. But it was enough for me to get it. And I know it was one of them because I got tested a few months before. I had read the odds were like 1-2%, so I thought I wouldn't be that unlucky. My mistake.

But anyway, I get the feeling that there's not much the safe sex campaigns can do now: people are tired of condoms. The number of guys actively seeking out bareback sex has greatly increased from what I've seen during the years, and so has the number of movies with bareback sex. You go to porn websites and the "bareback" category is usually the most popular. How to stop that?

I believe people aren't so afraid of HIV as they once were because you don't see people dying like before, especially in such terrible ways. Most people fear it, but think they will just have to take some pills daily and that's it, no prob.

And let's face it: sex without a condom is waaay better. And even if we know the risks, sometimes we just can't hold ourselves. That's part of being human. I really don't know anyone who has always had sex with condoms, and not once had unsafe sex. And I doubt any kind of education or campaign will solve that. I think people letting go more and more of condoms might be an irreversible trend and the only efficient solution for the epidemic will be finding a cure.

I think this maybe has to do a little with vulnerability. Ann's experience enlightens a part of it.

Other of the ingredients is blaming others or fearing others just because they are different or a minority, in the end, more vulnerable. As an example of this, don't you wonder why the barebacking sex concerns are publically (heatlh campaings, NGOs, goverments...) focused mostly (almost only) on gay men?.

Heterosexual men and women, in a majority of cases, are barebacking (in the best of cases, they do not have safer sex all the times they have sex) and they are not specifically addressed for that. I wonder, why?

Being vulnerable, being set apart by the majorities, and being our sexualuity associated to a higher risk of HIV-1 infection, don't you think that all this pressure, year after year, and hearing all the time the same kind of messages did, in the end, its effects on us?

Of course it did. And, as soon as the HIV=death message fade out in the sea of haart, we escaped, relaxed, forgotten, dared, we rebeled... we were and are alive and barebacking. It is just sex.

Could everyone of us have done it better, being smarter, gone home that night instead to the sexbar, or just simply say no? Well... I am not so sure. Maybe we "technically" could. But we didn't, so we are here. And so what?

I do not see this kind of "guilty"relfexions in somkers when they got cancer, or in fast food eaters when they get cholesterol heights leading to a heart attack... maybe the difference is that they, if they do anyway, just blame themselves (or the government for not regulating enough fast food or tobacco, or whatsoever...), but they do not have to cope, in addition, with a public blaming on them, as we HIVers all have to cope with.

And, also, we receive contradictory messages from institutions, from our families or from our cultural or social environment. This has also, I guess, an influence we cannot neglect.

To put a condon on is very easy. What is difficult is to set all the arguments, self esteem, logics and information in the right position to behave in the safer way every time we are confronted to it. And all this, given the person can effectively make a decision on his/her own will at that very moment, with no presence of fears or violence (physical, but also psicological and social).

In Africa, the scope is totally different, there, HIV 2 and subtypes of HIV-1 make heterosexuals more vulnerable to HIV than in western Europe or the US. And, guess who is blamed and on who are focused campaings, messages and all the stuff?: Women. Why?: they are more vulnerable, they have less rights, they are not at the same level of men, they are supossed to accept their role and for being blamed when necessary. And, the most important, I think: their sexuality does not matter, it is hidden, something you do not talk about...

As my french neighbours would say, "on connais la chanson".

Personally, I see this as an accident. Of course I've passed many nights saying myself why I was so stupid or where did I left my head that night... but, with the passing of time, I have realized that it is not realistic. I cannot blame myself. Neither blame the person that transmitted his virus to me. That night I could have been him instead of being me, very easily. One cannot pretend be in control of everithing all the time.

It is all a matter of risk perception. Risk perception is affected by vulnerability, but also by the feeling that, sooner or later you will get it anyway. So, why being worried? Better sooner than later. Maybe, underneath all our rationalism, the education and the information we had, we received, and even we transmitted to other people, in fact, those in the lines above were our real feelings and thinkings; so, we just proceeded consecquently, that's all.

I think also that meanwhile messages, informations, prevention programmes and all the stuff does not address the vulnerability issues, and assume that there will always be people that will not use condom, never or sometimes, and assume, then, that condom is a good tool but not a solution to the problem, things will no change very much. We could open this thread again into ten years, and probably will post more or less the same ideas and experiences.

Heterosexual men and women, in a majority of cases, are barebacking (in the best of cases, they do not have safer sex all the times they have sex) and they are not specifically addressed for that. I wonder, why?