I think the preservation is of the specie as a whole. I suspect these snail kites number in the few thousands, so the effort is to reduce the number of them being hunted, poached, captured and whatnot.

if we were to look at the bones of this goat we'd find all sorts of differences - which are due to usage rather than genetics.

This is one of the elements of genius in biology - that due to ancient evolutionary pressures it's now able to flex in response to a changing environment without actually evolving - meaning the genes then have a chance to catch up.

It's something we could hope helps save us from climate change - but all the studies I'm aware of show very mixed results.

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was a headline about Galapagos finches recently where they were getting speciation in two generations, though I admit I just read the headline and moved on.Edit: though this snail thing is not even evolution to be clear

we might need to reconsider what, exactly, we are trying to conserve: the old, pre- invasion predators? The new, adapted predators? Some mixture of both?

This is a really good, really important question that deserves a lot more discussion and consideration generally.

I am reminded of an interesting feature of northern Minnesota: a complete absence of earthworms. The most recent ice age scraped away the topsoil, and worms have been slowly repopulating northward over the last ten thousand years. They "migrate" slowly, and they're not there yet. Someday, they will be. That will have some negative effect on some of the flora and fauna of the northwoods (I'm not sure exactly what that will look like). Should we interfere? Could we, even if we wanted to?

if we were to look at the bones of this goat we'd find all sorts of differences - which are due to usage rather than genetics.

This is one of the elements of genius in biology - that due to ancient evolutionary pressures it's now able to flex in response to a changing environment without actually evolving - meaning the genes then have a chance to catch up.

It's something we could hope helps save us from climate change - but all the studies I'm aware of show very mixed results.

Just look at Bergmann's rule in biology where larger examples of a species are found further north.

As a hunter, I see it most pronounced in white tail deer. a BIG white tail for the Florida keys might be 90lbs. A big white tail in Saskatchewan might be 350lbs. That is nearly a 4x difference in size for the same species!

Just look at Bergmann's rule in biology where larger examples of a species are found further north.

As a hunter, I see it most pronounced in white tail deer. a BIG white tail for the Florida keys might be 90lbs. A big white tail in Saskatchewan might be 350lbs. That is nearly a 4x difference in size for the same species!

"they concluded that it is not pure evolution that yields this change, but rather something called "phenotypic plasticity." That's the ability of a single genetic sequence to produce different outcomes depending on variations in the environment."

Could it be argued fast food sources such as Big Macs are an invasive food source for humans?

Phenotypic plasticity is especially responsive to dietary changes, like the new larger food source the kites encountered here. The scientists drew this conclusion partially because neither bill length nor body mass seemed to change breeding patterns. Still, these phenotypic changes could be harbingers of an evolutionary change in the works.

"they concluded that it is not pure evolution that yields this change, but rather something called "phenotypic plasticity." That's the ability of a single genetic sequence to produce different outcomes depending on variations in the environment."

Right from your source "change in allele frequency over time". The argument is that the change is one of gene expression owing to environmental factors, not (or not yet) a change in the frequency of the genes themselves.

I can attest to there being a lot more giant (3 to 4 inches dia) snail shells in my backyard near the pond. Here in St. Pete, the limpkins (Aramus guarauna) seem to be enjoying the snails, and it seems like the bird population is increasing. Unfortunately, limpkins scream at the top of their lungs all night long during mating season. Ah, nature.

"they concluded that it is not pure evolution that yields this change, but rather something called "phenotypic plasticity." That's the ability of a single genetic sequence to produce different outcomes depending on variations in the environment."

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As the article mentioned, this isn't really "evolution", as in, a permanent change in genetics. Instead, it's different genes expressing themselves differently based on the environment.

The same thing happens with humans. Take two twins: put one in an environment where there is lots of nutritional food available, one where there is a scarcity of food. The one with food is likely to grow up to be taller and stronger than their malnutrition sibling. Same genetics, different environment, different result.

Now, over time, this may lead to genetic changes which would be evolution.

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was a headline about Galapagos finches recently where they were getting speciation in two generations, though I admit I just read the headline and moved on.

Yes, I saw that. Interesting. I read (BBC IIRC) that it was a speciation event prompted by a hybridization. I was hoping ars would do an article so I could ask the genetics experts about it. The story as best I recall is that a finch from one island ended up on a different island hundreds of Km away. It ended up mating with the locals (a different species) and having viable offspring with different characteristics (beak shape IIRC). The offspring were able to find food not available to local populations due to beak differences. They didn't mate with local population as their song was different enough to preclude that. Genetic testing showed they were breeding amongst themselves only. So, since they had a different food source did not breed with the locals due to song difference they were determined to be a new species. (This is all from memory so minor details may be incorrect)Reminded me of the classic Far Side cartoon "Geraldo Rivera of the Wild" (Which for some reason I can't find on the internet?) "Dressing as another species and mating out of season"

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Though not a direct comparison. cephalopods are showing adaptation to changes in climate within just a few generations

the snail kite, that, as its name implies, prefers to dine on apple snails. The size and shape of the kites’ curved bills have adapted to be perfect for plucking the snails out of their shells. These native snails are about an inch in diameter. By around 2009, exotic snails—“considered one of the world’s worst invaders,” according to a new study of this particular predation—had taken over.

"they concluded that it is not pure evolution that yields this change, but rather something called "phenotypic plasticity." That's the ability of a single genetic sequence to produce different outcomes depending on variations in the environment."

They're not disagreeing with the term. They're just stating that this isn't an example of it. From the article, it sounds more like this is just how these birds grow when they have more food to eat.

It's not just growth; the bill size to body mass ratio increased (see first paragraph under Discussion, quoted below) to account for the different snail size (larger beaks are more efficient at removing snails from the larger shells, whereas smaller beaks are more efficient for smaller snails).

I feel like an analysis of the beak curvature (instead of just length) would be beneficial, but the authors did not include that in this set.

"they concluded that it is not pure evolution that yields this change, but rather something called "phenotypic plasticity." That's the ability of a single genetic sequence to produce different outcomes depending on variations in the environment."

They're not disagreeing with the term. They're just stating that this isn't an example of it. From the article, it sounds more like this is just how these birds grow when they have more food to eat.

It's not just growth; the bill size to body mass ratio increased (see first paragraph under Discussion, quoted below) to account for the different snail size (larger beaks are more efficient at removing snails from the larger shells, whereas smaller beaks are more efficient for smaller snails).

I feel like an analysis of the beak curvature (instead of just length) would be beneficial, but the authors did not include that in this set.

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Though not a direct comparison. cephalopods are showing adaptation to changes in climate within just a few generations

A lot of it is due to generational life spans. Humans for instance generally do not reproduce in short order until we hit mid teens on up.

Edit: Many adaptations force some evolutionary changes as well, we just may not see them as easily

Many species reproduce annually until death, this does allow for them to evolve slightly to adapt.

The evolution you are talking about generally is more towards huge evolutionary changes like say the snail kite evolving to catch large fish that eagles can catch.

Most species adapt to whatever food is available to them, which is why some species die off if they cannot adapt quickly enough if food is scarce or gone.

There was an article in New Scientist recently of selective evolution occurring in as little as 8 generations. A biologist in the Caribbean was studying a certain type of fish with different selective pressures for size. In some streams small was better and others large was better. I don't recall the details but the evidence was strong for rapid changes in size amongst a group based on genetic changes

the snail kite, that, as its name implies, prefers to dine on apple snails. The size and shape of the kites’ curved bills have adapted to be perfect for plucking the snails out of their shells. These native snails are about an inch in diameter. By around 2009, exotic snails—“considered one of the world’s worst invaders,” according to a new study of this particular predation—had taken over.

I'm not sure this is correct. The apple snails that I'm familiar with (the ones that are banned in the aquarium trade in MN) are about the size of.. well, an apple (up to 6") http://applesnail.net/, they are monsters compared to ~1" aquarium snails of other species (mystery, nerite, pagoda, etc).

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was a headline about Galapagos finches recently where they were getting speciation in two generations, though I admit I just read the headline and moved on.

Yes, I saw that. Interesting. I read (BBC IIRC) that it was a speciation event prompted by a hybridization. I was hoping ars would do an article so I could ask the genetics experts about it. The story as best I recall is that a finch from one island ended up on a different island hundreds of Km away. It ended up mating with the locals (a different species) and having viable offspring with different characteristics (beak shape IIRC). The offspring were able to find food not available to local populations due to beak differences. They didn't mate with local population as their song was different enough to preclude that. Genetic testing showed they were breeding amongst themselves only. So, since they had a different food source did not breed with the locals due to song difference they were determined to be a new species. (This is all from memory so minor details may be incorrect)Reminded me of the classic Far Side cartoon "Geraldo Rivera of the Wild" (Which for some reason I can't find on the internet?) "Dressing as another species and mating out of season"

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was a headline about Galapagos finches recently where they were getting speciation in two generations, though I admit I just read the headline and moved on.

Yes, I saw that. Interesting. I read (BBC IIRC) that it was a speciation event prompted by a hybridization. I was hoping ars would do an article so I could ask the genetics experts about it. The story as best I recall is that a finch from one island ended up on a different island hundreds of Km away. It ended up mating with the locals (a different species) and having viable offspring with different characteristics (beak shape IIRC). The offspring were able to find food not available to local populations due to beak differences. They didn't mate with local population as their song was different enough to preclude that. Genetic testing showed they were breeding amongst themselves only. So, since they had a different food source did not breed with the locals due to song difference they were determined to be a new species. (This is all from memory so minor details may be incorrect)Reminded me of the classic Far Side cartoon "Geraldo Rivera of the Wild" (Which for some reason I can't find on the internet?) "Dressing as another species and mating out of season"

So the invasive snails had taken over by 2009, but when did the get introduced? Seems to me that the evolution/adaptation of the birds is moving very quickly. I thought it takes like thousands of generations...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was a headline about Galapagos finches recently where they were getting speciation in two generations, though I admit I just read the headline and moved on.

Yes, I saw that. Interesting. I read (BBC IIRC) that it was a speciation event prompted by a hybridization. I was hoping ars would do an article so I could ask the genetics experts about it. The story as best I recall is that a finch from one island ended up on a different island hundreds of Km away. It ended up mating with the locals (a different species) and having viable offspring with different characteristics (beak shape IIRC). The offspring were able to find food not available to local populations due to beak differences. They didn't mate with local population as their song was different enough to preclude that. Genetic testing showed they were breeding amongst themselves only. So, since they had a different food source did not breed with the locals due to song difference they were determined to be a new species. (This is all from memory so minor details may be incorrect)Reminded me of the classic Far Side cartoon "Geraldo Rivera of the Wild" (Which for some reason I can't find on the internet?) "Dressing as another species and mating out of season"

The species of snail in question here are Pomacea paludosa & Pomacea maculata. Both are popular aquarium pets (even today). The main problem with this species is that it feeds on living plants. That has resulted in a problem for agriculture in large regions of both US and EU (also Asia).

I have had Pomacea diffusa as a pet snails but they only feed on dead plants and don't even bother with living ones. All species have been banned in US and EU (not really a problem in north part of US and EU due to temperature, if it goes below 10C the snail are done for).