A conflict between father and son in a Star Wars story. Boy, we've never seen that before.

Actually, I think it's a lot more original to not have a conflict between Ben and Luke. Imo, the whole point is that they do get along and work well together. Ben's grown beyond that and to add a gratuitous conflict (because that's what it would be at this point) would be incredibly repetitious and boring.

Frankly I don't want to see the promise of Ben destroyed like Anakin and Jacen Solo were._________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:23 pm

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Crash OverrideMaster

Joined: 22 Dec 2010Posts: 1962

Cerrinea wrote:

A conflict between father and son in a Star Wars story. Boy, we've never seen that before.

Actually, I think it's a lot more original to not have a conflict between Ben and Luke. Imo, the whole point is that they do get along and work well together. Ben's grown beyond that and to add a gratuitous conflict (because that's what it would be at this point) would be incredibly repetitious and boring.

Frankly I don't want to see the promise of Ben destroyed like Anakin and Jacen Solo were.

Yeah, I'm past the idea of having a conflict between Luke and Ben; it was merely a suggestion to correct a perceived fault, and the debate became about my suggestion rather than the fault, which I wanted to correct with my prior post. Notice that in the NJO, Anakin was considered the Luke successor as Ben is now, and yet was never paired up with Luke on an individual basis like Jacen was, e.g. Luke and Jacen went to Belkadan while Anakin went with Mara to Dantooine. Why do you think that was?

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:41 pm

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CerrineaMaster

Joined: 09 Jun 2009Posts: 1491

I suppose you'd say it was to create conflict. Imo it was because each brother needed to learn something.

I suppose you'd say it was to create conflict. Imo it was because each brother needed to learn something.

Anakin learned; Jacen didn't.

I'm not quite I'm sure I follow your point about Anakin learning something and Jacen not.

But the reason it is written that way is because the book series establishes Anakin and Jacen's personalities by contrasting them against each other, and since Anakin is similar to Luke, there's no point from the writer's perspective to pair them up. Since Jacen is not, there is a point to it, because it allows Jacen's personality to be further explored through his disagreements with Luke, e.g. wanting to save the slaves on Belkadan and attempting to do so despite Luke ordering him not to. It's also why Jacen was paired up with Corran and Ganner, because Ganner is another foil to Jacen by virtue of being all the things that Jacen is not.

And it's why Anakin was often paired up with Mara, who serves as a foil for him the same as she does for Luke, since Anakin and Luke are very similar.

Putting two characters together that are very similar accomplishes nothing and in doing so is boring with their interactions and tells us nothing new about their characters.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:45 pm

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CerrineaMaster

Joined: 09 Jun 2009Posts: 1491

I admit that Luke and Ben aren't great foils for each other, but I don't think father/son conflict is the answer here. That's just beyond repetitious by now and I'd find it more boring than their current relationship.

I think the issue is the authors are playing it too safe with Ben's personality. They should give him a little more of Mara's edge. And add some characters that maybe could be good foils for Luke and Ben. I agree that Vestara isn't filling that bill._________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:55 am

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WerehunterKnight

Joined: 08 Apr 2011Posts: 362

For once I completely agree with Crash on this. The pair of Luke and Ben is just boring in my opinion for many of the reasons he has already stated.

But the reason I said I would like more conflict between to the two has little to do with that. It has to do with the fact they are traveling in such tight quarters and I've never seen a father and son relationship where there wouldn't be some conflict in that amount of time. During the trip they've argued about two things. Vestara and flow walking. The Vestara conflict is understandable, but it doesn't seem to go past it. That conflict should have spread out more into other things they deal with. Be an underlining pressure that makes simple things into a larger issue. Instead Luke says something that pisses off Ben or Ben says something that annoys Luke and the next scene things are fine.

Now that doesn't mean I want them at each others throat all the time. But from time to time, I'd like to see them disagree on how things should be done. To see some rebellion from Ben, things that he might not have done if Vestara wasn't in the picture. Teenagers are rebellious, even jedi ones. Or at least if we look at Tenal Ka, Jacen, Jania, and the others of their generation.

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:22 pm

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

I hardly ever argue with my parents. I'd be hard placed to even remember an argument. Plus, I don't find teenage arguments very appealing in books. It's something I could do without. The Luke/Ben status in FOTJ is fine by me, and I'd have no qualms with it continuing like that. The sooner Ben matures into a seasoned Jedi, the better._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:16 pm

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

^ Exactly._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:57 am

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Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

Haha, now I no longer feel like I'm alone. _________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:22 am

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 7613Location: Sailing into the unknown

_________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Why Won't Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan Be the NEW Big 3?

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:03 am

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Tommi JyurroPadawan

Joined: 17 Oct 2011Posts: 6Location: New Mexico

Story. Pure and simple. Despite the fact that Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan were the central characters of the prequels, they weren't the story. It is true that the story chronicled Anakin's descent into the dark side, but the story there wasn't Anakin; it was Darth Vader. No one has nightmares about Anakin Skywalker the petulent child, but Darth Vader is the quintessential Death figure. As a result of that, Anakin's story is not Anakin's story, but the evolution of Vader.

That, in no small way, diminishes the character of Anakin Skywalker. As a result, Padme's influence in the story is diminished as well, and anyone who watches the First Trilogy will end up thinking of her as "Luke's Mom", not "Padme Amidala, former Queen of Naboo."

The Pre-3 are further doomed to back-story mediocrity buy the very existence of Episodes 4-6. Where the prequel's character focus is blurred by the massive energies of foment and rebellion, the energies of foment and rebellion ARE the characters in the earlier-but-later films. Not to mention the fact that Anakin, Padme and Obi Wan spent three films as unwitting dupes in the web of Palpatine. How can they be considered "Heroes" on the same level as Luke, Leia, and Han? They can't. The Big Three are always in control of their own destiny due to what I can only guess is the result of the Emperor's hubris and their own sense of place and purpose in the universe. A place, I might add, that they have to fight and scratch for, but never seems solid until Vader picks up the Emperor and throws him to his doom.

Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa-Solo, and Han Solo will always be bigger because they have always been bigger than Obi Wan, Anakin, and Padme. Crap. Obi Wan, a Jedi, got worked by Jango Fett while in possession of all his faculties. Han effortlessly defeats Boba Fett blind. That fact pretty much sums up my point._________________You can upgrade your computer.
You can upgrade your phone.
You can even upgrade your music service.

When the time comes to upgrade yourself, will you?

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:24 am

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CerrineaMaster

Joined: 09 Jun 2009Posts: 1491

Quote:

Crap. Obi Wan, a Jedi, got worked by Jango Fett while in possession of all his faculties. Han effortlessly defeats Boba Fett blind. That fact pretty much sums up my point.

Yeah, that's not quite how it happened. It was pretty much an equal fight until Boba used the ship to fire on Obi-Wan. It's a little hard to fight both a Mando and a ship at the same time._________________Roqoo Depot co-founder.

True

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:59 am

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Tommi JyurroPadawan

Joined: 17 Oct 2011Posts: 6Location: New Mexico

But a Jedi should be able to cope. Han Solo was still blind, and that trumps all._________________You can upgrade your computer.
You can upgrade your phone.
You can even upgrade your music service.

It was blind luck, nothing more _________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.