Now, a simple post here at Epic saying they were going to run their own website and establish some independent instructional programs would have gone a long way to eliminating this whole mess. But the implicit announcement of those intentions here on Epic with an inaccurate and misleading post (that was referred to somewhat as a prank over at onsnow.com) left an appearance of a backdoor approach and showed a lot of bad faith. Additionally, as has been previously referred to, their inflated interpretation of their own roles in the establishment of the EpicSki programs which ignores the fact that they were members of a much larger team, many of whom made significant contributions, additionally contributes to this feeling of bad faith.

I don't at all criticize them for WHAT they've done. It's HOW they've done it that has disappointed me. These are (hopefully not "were") well repsected members of EpicSki who have made significant contributions here. Frankly, I expected better of them in terms of their approach to establishing an independent forum with associated ski instruction programs.

Si,

So let me get this straight. You think it would have been "better" for one of the founders, of what we all know full well will be a competing website, to log in here and say....."come on over to our site?"

Although AC has made it perfectly clear that paths were taken that might, in retrospect, have been avoided, do you really think anyone in their right mind would think the environment was ripe for such an approach?

When I say competing I mean it in the most generic sense. Onsnow will compete for my online attention as do about five others. I certainly hope many more ski forums will come online in the near future.

I can't find any reference at onsnow to any post being a prank. I'm sure it's my mistake, however, I'd love to see the reference. Can you provide a link?

What post are you referring to as "inaccurate and misleading"?

I think your choice of descriptors such as "back door", "bad faith", and "inflated interpretation" merely add fuel to a fire that many have hoped was dieing.

I'm sure the founders of on snow are going to writh in a fitfull slumber this eve knowing they disappointed you.: :

I have spent the past two days skiing with Bob, Ric, and Tom. The only person I have spoken to at length about this matter is Bob. I can assure all that AC, Epicski, and this entire community remains very dear to Bob. His absence has ONLY been due to time constraints. These guys are all consumate professionals who simply love to teach skiing and sought to venture off on their own. All those guys have one simple motivation and that is to put smiles on customers faces.

I also had the pleasure for two days of spending a great deal of time with PMTS Wacko, aka, SCSA. He and I have remained friends/intertwined for the past six years while a great deal of water has passed under the proverbial bridge. He has done a great deal behind the scenes to create a spirit/sense of reconciliation between two acrimonious factions. Will he succeed? I doubt it. He has become fond of repeating, its.........just skiing.

Let's all enjoy the variety of skiing sites available, look forward to ski pros plying their trade at many different camps, and set our sites on the many ski seasons to come.

Your obviously entitled to your own feelings. But how can you be disappointed over circumstances that, by your own admission, you know nothing about?

Like most, I know nothing in terms of how this played out, or even what has played out. So I'm sure as hell not going to be passing judgement on anybody involved.

Pure speculation is dangerous. I'd sure hate to have these "respected members" feel unwelcome here, based on our impatient speculation.

Coach, I don't want to carry this too far. I will just say that my comments and opinions are based on observations of what has been said and what has not been said both here and at onsnow.com. I have also talked to a few other EpicSki members about what has occurred.

I hope that you and others understand that I value the community we have here greatly and consider Bob, Ric, and Tom to be valuable members of this community. Also, I have a lot of respect for AC. It is only because I value what we have here that I have commented about how the onsnow entity announced their breakaway venture. I don't think anyone can deny that they would not be in a postion to do what they're doing without their history at EpicSki.

They're trying to make a living, to start their own business, to possibly even have some money for retirement. : The opportunity here wasn't sufficient for that.

As we all do in life they're building on their past experiences, changing jobs, whatever you want to call it. It's a part of life that all but the least motivated of us know quite well. If (and when) I find one of my past employees to have opened up a business that overlaps with mine in some way, will I be happy? If they learned things from me that they took on in their life - I should be.

If they didn't do it perfectly, so? Have you? Have I? Not always I'm sure.

Thanks Paul, aka SCSA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Guy

I also had the pleasure for two days of spending a great deal of time with PMTS Wacko, aka, SCSA. He and I have remained friends/intertwined for the past six years while a great deal of water has passed under the proverbial bridge. He has done a great deal behind the scenes to create a spirit/sense of reconciliation between two acrimonious factions. Will he succeed? I doubt it. He has become fond of repeating, its.........just skiing.

I too had the pleasure of spending time with Paul yesterday (Saturday, 4/23). I will echo Rusty's thoughts on Paul, aka SCSA. He very deeply wants both sides to let go of the acrimony that has grown over the years. It is just skiing-never forget that.

"The other major bulletin board software for the LAMP platform (which is the only one you should consider for a site this complex, the Windows based stuff just isn't up to snuff, and resultingly no one has developed great bulletin software for it) is called phpBB.

"phpBB is open source, (mostly) free to use software. I love open source, but sometimes open source software is limited. phpBB has had recurring security troubles that have been exploited to a greater extent than issues with vBulletin, its feature set is smaller, and its somewhat less familiar and intuitive to use.

"This is all stuff you probably wouldn't notice unless you are a forum junkie like me (epicski is about one tenth of my forum haunting time) but it can really add up and change the experience. I'm convinced that vBulletin is one of the greatest pieces of web software yet."