what you don't seem to understand is that children born in Iraq will have TUMOURS GROWING OUT OF THEIR ****ING FACES for the rest of humanity's foreseeable future. (half life of at least 700 million years)

That is very upsetting. However, without proper healthcare the children and future children will never be able to get help. And there isn't very good access to healthcare, and the healthcare isn't of very good quality. And in order for that to change the system needs to be changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

I agree with you that it's the military's job to kill, destroy, and ruin. It's our shameful purpose. However, in my opinion that is all a military should be used for; it should never be used to "nation-build" or anything of the sort. It sends mixed messages, confounds its more important purpose (kill and cause mayhem), and weakens it overall.

Are you/were you in the military? If you were, Thank you for your service.

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.

Are you/were you in the military? If you were, Thank you for your service.

I still am, and thanks.

Quote:

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.

If a nation wants to endeavor in such a thing, it needs to use an entity separate from it's military to accomplish that goal. The same organization that is invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, and hunting its hooligans cannot be the one that is attempting to "nation-build."

Yea that's true (in response to the first part).
I can see why people would have a problem with police officers in some cases, but whenever I ask someone who hates cops "Do you want to live in a world where there aren't police officers?" They can't give me a straight (or sensible) answer. It's either "Yes" (which is obviously ridiculous) or "No, but i don't want them to abuse their power", which is always going to happen. Psychopaths or just assholes are always going to gravitate to professions that give them power. But you can't judge the majority by actions of the minority.

I may not be able to judge the majority by the actions of the minority, but I can be suspicious of them until I'm certain they're not the arseholes.

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As for soldiers, I don't understand hate for them at all. They are one of the few professions that I respect over any other. Maybe my emotions skews my opinion of it a little bit, but anyone who is willing to risk their life for my country is a hero in my book.
None of this is directed at you, it's just kinda rants about stuff in response to your post.

Because the other side's soldiers are willing to do the same. So either it's a pointless affair with unnecessary death or one side is 'good' and the other 'bad'. In which case the soldiers themselves aren't what's to be respected, it's the cause and their willingness to stand up for it that I respect.

However that only applies if you believe in the cause.

I don't hate soldiers. And I'd be grateful for their service if/when it's needed. But I don't buy into the bullshit that they're all heroes.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by element4433

Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.

What the **** is with all the trolling? The two guys killed were heroes, not just for what they did while deployed but for what they did when they got back. Excluding service members, No one on this board has even come close to proving that they are half the man these guys were. Myself included.

RIP.

I've made like 1 post in the last 2 months and this needed to be said.

This is extremely well said. Considering both these guys were volunteering their time to help people with PTSD for no other reason than to help, I think everyone seems to be missing the point as to why this sucks so much and is tragic.

I have to disagree with the idea that the military should only be used for destruction. Of course, that is its main purpose. But although a sword is crafted to kill, the result of the killing is the reason that the killing was done in the first place. Whether or not a people go to war for defense, land, oil, to stop a dictator, to help an ally, or w.e. the reason is rarely to simply destroy. It is an instrument for a much larger goal.

If a nation wants to endeavor in such a thing, it needs to use an entity separate from it's military to accomplish that goal. The same organization that is invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, and hunting its hooligans cannot be the one that is attempting to "nation-build."

It's sloppy. It's convoluted. It's two-faced. It's shitty politics. It doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
So far i am being swayed, but may I ask, what do you think such an entity would be that would do that?
Also, if you don't mind my inquiring, what position are you in the military?

Or you can recognize that that person, regardless of what politicians and leaders do, has made the sacrifice that is a life in the military, has willingly gone into a situation where he may be injured, scarred mentally or physically, maimed, or killed, in service to his country and the citizens thereof. And then, having recognized the sacrifices that that guy made, you could thank and respect him.

My cousin AJ will never be able to lift his right arm above his head or lift more than 60 pounds again because of injuries he sustained in Afganistan when his convoy was ambushed. He volunteered the week after 9/11, his military service shattered his marriage, he suffers from flashbacks a few times a month, in service of his country. Just an anecdote, but I don't believe you're a rational thinking person if you don't recognize and respect such sacrifice.

Nah man, they signed up for it, so they obviously deserve every mental and physical injury they receive! Don't be stupid, the world would be better if no country had soldiers!

Regardless, had the people of Iraq wanted freedom as badly as we reckon, surely they would have revolted? Unless you were a Kurd (Kurds get treated like shit everywhere though, but they're not Jews so nobody gives a shit).

My understanding is that most of the killing was inflicted on Kurds and much of Iraq didn't care. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: I'm not sure what I was getting at here and this is a pretty awful post...

The Baathist Party's stance on any form of political dissent is pretty well documented. The fact that you haven't bothered to read about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Iraqi Olympic athletes are one high profile example, athletes who performed unsatisfactorily were tortured by Saddam's son, Ude. Anyone who spoke out against the Baathist party would just disappear, try google.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by airbrendie

Hey guys in the last 3 weeks I ****ed all the girls in this picture, what do you think?

It is our concern. It is every human beings concern. The United States is the only country with the balls to actually do something about it.
And i could care less about our foreign policy. We were not killing innocent people. We launched no attacks. They attacked us first, the fact that you sympathize with religious zealots over thousand of innocent lives everywhere in the world speaks a lot about your character and morals as a person.
I don't think war is a good thing, but I do think it is necessary. This is a case where I think that it is necessary. And if you want to deny that then you should look at the world again and see what's going on in it.

Amen brother.

It is my opinion that the free world has a responsibility to free the rest of the world from tyranny and evil ideologies. It's so easy to say those things sitting in a heated or air conditioned home with a latte in one hand on the computer. Totally different if you're half starving in Afghanistan and can't get an education because the Taliban won't allow it or they'll ****in saw your head off and put it on the internet.

For the military members here, just wanted to say thank you for your service and all you do for us. God knows I'm too big of a pussy to go out and do what you guys do.