I want to go out on a limb here and see how many people feel the way that I do. First, NO christian biased posts, NO satanic biased posts, and NO atheist biased posts. Nobody cares about one-sided opinions or ideas that are imaginary. I want to stick with "reality". Reality is perceived through our FIVE given senses from the time we are conceived. Yes, we can argue a sixth sense, but let's not get into that area here. I just want to probe REAL uncontroversial facts.

A: Religion (christianity, being popular) offers a very complex explanation to how things have come to be in our reality. Most accept this explanation, while others choose to be skeptical and search for alternative explanations. For the ones who accept religion as "salvation", it seems that they have arrogantly chosen a specific path for themselves, assuming that the specific path chosen will lead them into some kind of "bliss". Some people who have chosen to believe in complex explanations of reality might not have blissful endings, but they still have encapsulated themselves in an arrogant thought structure. My point being, most popular religions require you to think in a certain way, while consciously ignoring any other way of thinking.

B:Satanism or counter-positive religion offers nothing to society except destruction. Yes, it can be fun to be a teenage rebel and mock religion, but contributing to negativity and violence towards society does NOT solve anything. Enough said.

C: Atheism starts out as a free-thinking agenda against what the masses are trying to push on you. I have been through the trials and errors of pushing back against what the majority of people are telling me what I am supposed to believe. Atheism might seem like the "nest" of thought that so many people think that they can rest at, but atheism is just another assumption to something that nobody can explain. Ask yourself, "Do I possess the sensual ability to detect what created me and my world?", or, "Do my minuscule sensory organs have the ability to ascertain exactly why and how this reality came to be?". There is no absolute certain explanation of how everything came to be up to this point in time........

There is nothing right on the left side of my brain and nothing left on the right -

I want to go out on a limb here and see how many people feel the way that I do.

How's that? Ignorant and confused? Yes, there are many like you....way too many.

You should really know what you are talking about before you post.

Satanism plays no role in shaping our world. If you said Secular Humanism, then I would more inclined to agree.

I am an Anti-Theist but embrace the Atheism label because it seems less confrontational. I have no problem with people seeking comfort in mythology or Religious dogma, what I do care about is when these things effect the lives of others.

Religion is poison. Spiritualism is ok with me, just keep your BS to yourself.

If you want fact look to the Sciences, thats the only place you will find any facts.

I hope that others get your intent, Im pretty sure I do. (ah i see youre already catching shit...no worries, im with you)

But your setup is basically going to lure Christianity bashing. (which in itself isnt so bad, but usually, the reasons against religions are straw dog arguments which deal more with the Humans running churches than what is actually written or put forward in the actual religion itself..ie Christs message, vs the message of Right Wing Neocon, gun toting bible thumpers...)

Ill respond when i have a bit of time..but i must say that i simply disagree with your paragraph on Religion (Christianity).My response wont be as much a defense of christianity or promoting it, but rather clarifying WHAT about it can be detrimental. Threads like this, which intellectually can dismantle any of these concepts...generally end up lacking discussions on SOLUTION, since they gget so wrapped up in talking about WHY they dont like one of your three belief systems, that no new ones, or more correct ones are formulated.

Easy to tear down a structure, not so easy to build one, and if you remove those three columns of belief, you end up with what APPEARS to be an endorsement of the last possible option. Moral Relativism (meaning all acts are equal) and Secular Humanism.

That humans unguided by religious or philosophical beliefs MUST represent the BEST and the highest moral order in this universe, due to the lack of believing in a faulty system. I cant buy that.

Meaning, Humans will act morally, in the interest of other humans and will accept sacrifice in order to do so, without reward. They will share their resources out of the goodness of their hearts, and will not act selfishly, nor with violence in disputes, nor will their nations war with each other (since religion is gone)...They will inherently act morally despite no punishment systems in place (hell). And that humanity would advance (and embrace self sacrifice without reward) in the absence of the Three listed belief systems.

So while this MAY appear as a Pro Christian thing, its not. I completely understand why modern religion makes itself such an easy target..But i really 100% disagree with the premise (or how you stated it) as the Faults in Religions. Or a very limited understanding of their real purpose. (no, control was not the initial intent, although it has become that way).

Its hardly arrogant to come to a belief system that offers some relief from the fear of death. Its that simple.

I had a Hospice nurse once tell me, that she flatly REFUSED to attend to dying Atheists. She said they die the most horrible deaths across the board than anyone else, and that quiet, loving little ole christian ladies died the best, with smiles on their faces..

There is something to that.

That cant be ignored (to me), or brushed off because of what a few jackass priests, and control mongers have made out of them. (all of them) And that is the MAIN premise for arguments against religion. That makes it a faulty case, logically. And i mean ALL religions..not just mine.

You wanted to limit this to the Five senses...But the human mind includes a programmed search for patterns, and is a hard wired instinct, so logic alone cannot remove that... and it is precisely why our limited sense pallet will never be able to accurately describe the nature of the universe (and why we cant rely on it alone), or answer the question why....but it has NO CHOICE but to formulate a story that seems to give our existence some meaning in context some relevance, in the face of that unanswerable question and POSSIBLE conclusion that all this means NOTHING.

And trust me, you wouldnt want to live on a planet where NO one thought there was a purpose, creator, sytem, morality, afterlife or hope. It would be a VERY VERY BLOODY planet..far bloodier than this one. Nothing would hold that destructive human instinct back, matter of fact, it would become encouraged, as a means of survival...

So its sort of a miracle that we subconsciously devised a moral code and hardwired THAT into our behavior to override the animal human nature by formulating a creation myth along with an attendant history that would validate acting morally, as a means to get us out of the deserts and jungles, and into social structures that didnt cannibalize.

Lowsix, that hospice nurse....why was she there if she REFUSED to help those who (according to her) would need the most help / comforting? What a cunt she is!

Sorry, but sounds to me your hospice nurse was probably one of those Christ Cultists who are constantly trying to scare others to believe their brand of "truth". I do not believe there is a hardwired set of morals. Our society / environment determines our morals.

Meet me now and we could sit down for a few beers and have a chat. Meet me in a post apocalyptic world and I would smash your head in with a tire iron for that last twinkie sitting on the shelf in a burned out 7/11.

Last edited by Bahb3 on Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Christian based beliefs make up a mere 3% of the worlds population......

That being said...97% of the world believe in something else.....Yet the christian bible says that the only way to make it into heaven is to worship God through Jesus, Mary or some other deity.So...by that rational'......97% of the world is condemed to burn in hell.....ME THINKS NOT!!Christians ARE a MINORITY!!!!

I do believe in spirtuality...a kind of vibration we all have...an energy we can control with practice.........this energy has no "body" to be worshiped......one can be much closer to "God" meditating under a tree, than in a man-made church!!!!

Perhaps there is a "refuse pile of souls" that are tainted and cannot be used to further the human condition.....But it is much less than 97%.....

Religion is a" Farsehooded" explanation for the power we all have within us!!!

Peace, Love and Good Will To All...For We Are All Human and Part of the Same Energy!

bahb3 wrote:Lowsix, that hospice nurse....why was she there if she REFUSED to help those who (according to her) would need the most help / comforting? What a cunt she is!

Sorry, but sounds to me your hospice nurse was probably one of those Christ Cultists who are constantly trying to scare others to believe their brand of "truth". I do not believe there is a hardwired set of morals. Our society / environment determines our morals.

In a Hospice with around forty nurses, there are no shortages of Nurse/patient assignments, and is a general trend to attempt to orient the person with a nurse or final hour caregiver that can relate experientially to worldviews, and beliefs on afterlife.Nurses and patients alike are allowed feedback into their pairings as a nod of respect to the patients beliefs. I understand the way I phrased that sounded Exclusionary, and in a sense, it was, but no one was being denied care.

bahb3 wrote:Meet me now and we could sit down for a few beers and have a chat. Meet me in a post apocalyptic world and I would smash your head in with a tire iron for that last twinkie sitting on the shelf in a burned out 7/11.

Conversely, what if im the one with the crowbar and you are injured?I bet you would be hoping that i operate some belief system that would override my instnct to finish you off. You WANT me to have a belief structure that encourages me to care for you and share my food.....

Because if you survive, i am actually serving the interest of humanity by helping you, You will be healthy and able to provide another set of hands in the mutual search for food and shlter, you double our defences...in other words, my religious beliefs have served humanity, and yours have stunted the road back to civilization...you acted in self interest, and killed me for a twinkie..

Your point illustrates how and why a system (any system) that allows to individual to actively participate in self denial, or self sacrifice, is THE THING that allowed us to come out of the forest and become civilized.

Our brains are partly reptilian the last time I checked. I think you give humanity too much credit.

My scenario was meant to imply that there was no longer a civilization to save. I think the Dali Lama could be turned into a murder under the right circumstances. We are all human with the same potential to be a savage animal. Some of us are just closer to the edge of the cliff than others.

I think Dan Akroid and Eddie Murphy have illustrated this well.

Last edited by Bahb3 on Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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