I think Ajahn Brahm makes some very good points, it would seem we hold a similar view. I have always used the example of the fact many Vinaya laws were formulated by the Buddha after complaints from laypeople to back up the idea that lay people have a responsibility to help keep this Sasana ticking over, wise-patronage is one of the best methods to do so, avoid patronizing institutions you know are corrupt, give your offerings and dana to institutions where you know the monks practice the Dhamma. Another hugely important thing is education, and it would seem at least in Thailand there are many misconceptions about Dana and what laypeople should give. I think this is one area where the Sangha can help, the Sangha can help educate these uninformed laypeople who have these wrong ideas about kamma and dana, and then we can finally start taking some steps in the right direction.

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Ajahn Brahm discussion was very interesting and as usual full of practical advice. I know that for me there was a lot more in that talk that relates to this thread than the answer to the question about the disrobed monk. Some of it relates to how we should conduct ourselves in relation to other people and past events!

Wirapol's lifestyle first came to the attention of pilot Piya Tregalnon three years ago, when he was regularly asked to find a private, seven-seat jet for Wirapol's "commute" between Bangkok and Ubon Ratchathani, with each charter costing about $10,000. Piya became suspicious, and decided to post photographs on his Facebook page of the monk sitting in a private jet, wearing aviator sunglasses, carrying Louis Vuitton luggage and flicking through a huge wad of US dollar notes. In mid-June, his pictures went viral on social media sites before being picked up by the Thai media..

Wirapol's lifestyle first came to the attention of pilot Piya Tregalnon three years ago, when he was regularly asked to find a private, seven-seat jet for Wirapol's "commute" between Bangkok and Ubon Ratchathani, with each charter costing about $10,000. Piya became suspicious, and decided to post photographs on his Facebook page of the monk sitting in a private jet, wearing aviator sunglasses, carrying Louis Vuitton luggage and flicking through a huge wad of US dollar notes. In mid-June, his pictures went viral on social media sites before being picked up by the Thai media..

Nobody needs sun glasses as passengers in a jet. Ben in his earlier post ( I have not read the whole thread ) had a point, the picture is not given with a context, but the attitude as conveyed by the pictures of the monks raises a lot of red flags. Though not as extreme, I have seen temple newslettes with monks going on about "dhamma tours".....aka traveling on the laities dime and not spreading Buddhist teachers to those who don't have it. That is abuse. Some monks get away with it because they are idolized in Asia and Asians are brought up with on overly authoritarian culture where people feel self conscious about speaking the truth and asking questions out loud.

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

I am not defending or attacking the monks that are the question in this thread. But you have said

Though not as extreme, I have seen temple newslettes with monks going on about "dhamma tours".....aka traveling on the laities dime and not spreading Buddhist teachers to those who don't have it. That is abuse.

The basis for this statement is what? You said “not spreading Buddhist (teachings) to those who don’t have it.

Dhamma discourses where made by the Buddha to a range of people from those who did not have a clue to those who were far beyond where I am like to get in this life time or any number of lifetimes after. Where the laity chooses to support monks on journeys where is the abuse?

You said

Some monks get away with it because they are idolized in Asia and Asians are brought up with on overly authoritarian culture where people feel self conscious about speaking the truth and asking questions out loud.

My question to you is what is your first hand experience of Asia that allows you to make these sweeping generalizations? Or did you read it in newspapers and the internet which we all know always tell the truth!

Probably no way around it give the subject matter and my opinion, but my intention in expressing my opinion was not to offend.

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

"Over the years, there have been several cases of men who abused the robe, but never has a single monk been implicated in so many crimes," Pong-in Intarakhao, a chief investigator with Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI), an elite police unit, told Thai journalists. "We've never seen a case this widespread."

If you believe Wirapol and his thousands of devoted followers, he has built the world's largest replica of the Emerald Buddha (the 45-centi-metre tall, green nephrite original is housed in the grounds of Bangkok's Grand Palace), can walk on water, fly, talk to deities, see into the future and is immune to cobra venom. They'll tell you his spirit can leave his body during meditation and that, in a previous life, Buddha himself assured him he'd be reborn a monk and achieve great deeds. More temporally, he has amassed a fortune estimated by Thai investigators to be worth more than $32 million.

These are the kind of abuses, in my opinion, you get when encorage faith and religious superstitions in society. People who do not believe in the superstitions of a religion, who want to see evidence, never would have believed this monk's claims which would have short circuited the power he needed to apply the abuse he inflicted on his community.

No disrespect to anyone. I mean that.

I am just making a point in a conversatin that comes up on dhammwheel frequently about faith ( belief witout evidence ) and superstition.

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

(16 September) A senior official at the Division of Special Investigation (DSI) expressed confidence that the fugitive ex-monk wanted by the DSI will not be granted asylum visa in the United States, where he is believed to be residing to avoid legal prosecution in Thailand. Over the weekend, Khaosod has reported that the DSI failed to capture Mr. Wirapol Sukphol, the famous (now defrocked) monk also known as Luang Pu Nen Kham, at a temple in Laos. Reports say the DSI is attempting to contact US immigration to prevent Mr. Wirapol from applying for an asylum visa in the US. Sources close to Mr. Wirapol indicate he may cite "religious persecution" as grounds for asylum.

He is obviously trying to copy the notorious ex-Ajahn Yantra who also requested (and was granted) asylum in the US citing religious persecution as his reason. It is not surprising really, with so many religious and spiritual cults happily prospering in the US.