J.J.B. wrote:Unfortunately, Margaret, design and aesthetics are highly subjective and any criticism is being taken personally as the web designers in this case see it as them being told what to do by people they likely deem unqualified. Design purists will tell you that form follows function and I think the design team here have done a good job at upgrading the functionality of the site. If you don't like the choice of colour and other add-ons, you have to 'live with it'.

Another thread this morning has reminded me, quite starkly, that this site is a commercial enterprise run for the benefit of a very small number of people, it is not a social one for the benefit of us all and this is why our input is of limited interest. When in Rome...

I have thought long and hard about these responses. With the conclusion that yes - my first reaction to the new format was exactly that. A first reaction. Which doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that I will change my thoughts on the choice of colour!
But I do question the idea that web designers are taking alleged 'criticism' personally. They are in business. And any business should be able to take comments as constructive, and react accordingly. If they are unable to do that then they shouldn't be running a business in the first place IMO, because they are never going to be able to continue to develop in response to customer needs, and I am certainly not going to be fooled into feeling sorry for them.
In the case of a forum like HHAD the customer is ultimately the forum user. Without them there wouldn't be a forum. Which is fine for a non profit making organisation. So OK we have to accept that HHAD needs funding - and that funding comes from the advertisers/sponsors/whatever you want to call them. Which means that somewhere along the line there has to be a balance of interests between users, funders, and management.
It is not up to forum users to decide what that balance should be. That decision should be based on the managements interpretation of their business plan and cash flow forecast, plus their aims and objectives, which it goes without saying will be pre-determined.
With respect to both Mods and management - yes the functionality of the site is paramount. But with cost effectiveness in mind I do wonder whether other unecessary alterations to the site have been allowed to creep in at the suggestion of the web designers, on the grounds that those web designers know best.
So - probably along with many other forum users - I'm concerned that money might be being wasted on web designers who might not be quite as up to scratch as they claim to be. Who maybe try to sell add ons to the original remit. Who presume that all us forum users are complete numpties when it comes to design and layout.
My earlier question about the qualifications of web designers has yet to be answered, from which I have to conclude that the answer is no - they don't have to have experience in art and design. The next question has to be is there an industry standard for web designers? Surely after all these years there should be. If there isn't, we have a situation of caveat emptor which applies to the forum management team responsible for the site and the spending on so called improvements.
Please don't criticize those 10 or 12 or so out of thousands who have stood up and commented on the new forum design. At least we have noticed it and have cared enough to respond. The remaining 3000 plus people have'nt cared enough to comment either way.

margaretcarnes wrote:
With respect to both Mods and management - yes the functionality of the site is paramount. But with cost effectiveness in mind I do wonder whether other unecessary alterations to the site have been allowed to creep in at the suggestion of the web designers, on the grounds that those web designers know best.
So - probably along with many other forum users - I'm concerned that money might be being wasted on web designers who might not be quite as up to scratch as they claim to be.

Well there's no fear of that. As the website owners have stated, this is the stock phpBB theme, with a few colour tweaks. I was surprised to read that so I went and checked. And yes, it is indeed the stock theme. But the question has to be, why would a site with *so* many readers, rely on a stock theme when there are so many to chose from, free or for a small fee.

Please don't criticize those 10 or 12 or so out of thousands who have stood up and commented on the new forum design. At least we have noticed it and have cared enough to respond. The remaining 3000 plus people have'nt cared enough to comment either way.

I can't remember the actual stat, but the amount of people who actually "complain", or provide feedback, compared to the amount who just switch off (or, as the owners like to say, "live with it") is minuscule. It's like a point of a percent, or less. To be fair, the amount of people who provide positive feedback is probably even less - but there's usually no need to provide positive feedback when everything is working as expected... so it's a complex algoritm.

I absolutely applaud the developers for putting functionality first - I am the first one to get irate when something improves the way it looks at the expense of functionality. And the system upgrade has improved the way I use the site. But with the functional improvements in place (and, appreciated), isn't it time to think aesthetics? If this was my site I'd *want* it to look the best it could. And, sometimes through gritted teeth (as I understand, I really do, that it's difficult to told that your work could be improved upon), I would take a deep breath, and try and take a balanced view - rather than just see every 'suggestion' as an attack on me as a person - which it really isn't.

^^ cant wait for the reply to MC and Plengs post,never understand why people take other peoples critisicme or suggestions so near as long as its positive.Have to say that my 1 languse is not english so maybe I miss something and I hope you understand.

Still miss my quick link mark in the bottom

But then again its my birthday today, have been out to see the Kite festval in Cha Amn, and now out for dinner with good friends, football tomorrow in Pranburi, to see Hua Hin City win, so whats the big problem

bsdk1960 wrote:
But then again its my birthday today, have been out to see the Kite festval in Cha Amn, and now out for dinner with good friends, football tomorrow in Pranburi, to see Hua Hin City win, so whats the big problem

Have a nice weekend

Well, Happy Birthday to you

For what it's worth my two satangs are as follows:

ANYBODY can set up a website and forum. It may be for pleasure or profit. It may start as pleasure and develop into a profitable venture. At the end of the day it belongs to it's creators and what they do with it is up to them. Users (you and me) are using it's facilities whether for information or to air views and exchange banter/rants.

In this media hyped world we are inundated with electronic information but we have a choice. Take it or leave it. I'm a member of several forums throughout the globe for a variety of reasons and I can honestly say I have abandoned many through either.....over complication, bad management/moderation, crap content and user abuse. We have a choice. Just as we do do when we pick up a daily rag.

So please remember whatever media you are reading or contributing to is not there necessarily for your benefit but is primarily for the benefit of the owner(s)

RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.

Mags, with respect, your post is somewhat past the sell by date and everyone has moved on. If you use more than one forum, you get used to all the changes and adapt very quickly.

This one seems to attract more vitriol than most when it comes to change. Members of some specialist forums I use are very appreciative of having a forum they can use to discuss their favourite subject. In one, the owner was looking to sell and members were keen to buy, but he changed his mind and paid for a desperately needed update. Weeks later and it's still not finished! The reaction? Yes, some frustration (to put it mildly), but also understanding and donations made to help pay for the work needed. I think we get a pretty good deal here.

Is there not a difference between traffic and posts?
I have no figures to substantiate posts but recently the number of posts and new topics seems to have reduced. However that was, to my perception, apparent Before the software upgrade and most likely non-related.

"'The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why." - Mark Twain