I was just wondering if other 640 users can tell me what dvd players they are playing burned disc on without any problems. I'm using jvc ty 8x blank media, so I don't think that is a problem. Of coarse My 640 burned discs will play in my 640, but I was just trying to save ware n tear on my 640, by playing in my cheaper recorder, since it is so hard to replace a 640.

Your question appears to be simply "what DVD player is compatible with 640 burned discs," my answer is "just about any DVD or BD player, assuming you have finalized all discs with your 640." Unfinalized discs will not play in anything except the recorder that burned them.

There is very little choice left, if any, of high-quality DVD-only players, so you may get stuck with a BluRay/DVD player. BD players can be excruciatingly slow to load and play DVDs, and their interface can be overly fussy. You also need to watch out for poorly-automated aspect ratios in some BD players connected via HDMI: it can be very difficult to prevent them from stretching all 4:3 dvds to 16:9, whether thats appropriate or not. For these reasons I'd suggest getting a nice cheap DVD-only player while you still can (Sony, Philips and several others still sell them at chains like Kmart).

I have a 410 and it's a excellent DVD player and has the ability to play many different DVD formats. The only thing I don't know if it will play would be VR format discs. Your Pioneer(unlike my Panasonics) has the option of recording regular DVDs in the VR format and not the normal VIDEO format, my guess is your problem lies in that. Not owning a Pioneer I don't know how to change the VR/VIDEO option but I'm sure a Pioneer owner will chime in
I'm assuming you have finalized your DVDs.......unfinalized DVDs will generally only play in a recorder not a DVD player.
Lastly the 410 will NOT play RAM discs(which makes me wonder if it will play VR discs at all) if you want to play RAM discs I'd suggest you look into select Panasonic DVD/BD players.

I think you forgot to FINALIZE the disc.
Most of the time Discs
Will NOT play in regular players OTHEr THAN the unit that they were
CREATED on.
The 640 unit, is a good unit, DESPITE NOT being able to have a
KEYBOARD input(SHAME ON YOU PIONEER, ALL ELITE PLAYERS HAVE A KEYBOARD INPUT,
WHY NOT YOUR RECORDERS TOO?)

I have a Pioneer 640, and a later model. I have no trouble playing the 640-made discs in Sony, Philips, and Oppo players. Also, I have given away a lot of discs, and never had someone tell me that they couldn't play them. I agree that the two most likely possibilities are that either you did not finalize the discs, or recorded them in the VR mode. That would make them unplayable in most other players.

Pioneer brand DVD players were compatible for playback of all burn variations created by Pioneer recorders (finalized, unfinalized, special VR mode). Any other brand player would require the Pioneer 640 discs to be finalized. If you discover any unfinalized DVD-Rs or DVD+Rs, you can retroactively finalize them by going into the 640 Home Menu>Disc Setup>Finalize menu. DVD-RW may or may not require finalization: some newer players can tolerate unfinalized -RW. The DVD+RW discs were specifically designed not to require finalization and are cross-compatible for playback on any hardware that accepts +R/+RW media.

Playback incompatibility caused by the special Pioneer VR format is possible but unlikely. VR Mode is hidden and not easily invoked: the default mode for -R and +R discs in the 640 is standard video format. If someone needs VR mode (which is only used to make backup mirrors of the HDD), they have to intentionally dig three menus deep to VR-format each new -R or +R disc (the setting doesn't stick). The 640 automatically switches to a second "generic" VR mode when recording to a +RW disc, as all recorders do. -RW defaults to video mode but can be optionally formatted as Pioneer VR.

Odds are your 410 is beginning to die of old age (it was a 2005 model and lasers don't last forever). To double check this, be sure to try playing your finalized 640 discs in a few other players: you must know at least two other people with a DVD or BluRay/DVD player. Also try playing the DVDs in a couple of computers (Mac or Windows PC). If you don't encounter playback problems with anything but your 410, you need a new player.

Pioneer brand DVD players were compatible for playback of all burn variations created by Pioneer recorders (finalized, unfinalized, special VR mode)....
Odds are your 410 is beginning to die of old age (it was a 2005 model and lasers don't last forever). To double check this, be sure to try playing your finalized 640 discs in a few other players: you must know at least two other people with a DVD or BluRay/DVD player. Also try playing the DVDs in a couple of computers (Mac or Windows PC). If you don't encounter playback problems with anything but your 410, you need a new player.

Do Pioneer players generally play RAM discs? I found it very odd that my 410 would not play my Panasonic recorded RAM discs(the only ones I have), it just sat their spinning and spinning but never played or brought up the menu
Also I didn't think the 410 was that old of a model, it was the follow-up model to the 400 both of which have HDMI and other modern features. My only complaint about Pioneer players is their inability to display remaining time on the units display and not have it be OSD, it's this feature that has me continuing to use my many Sony players(which for sure will not play RAM and also any format other than standard DVD format). I like how the 400 and 410 have almost all buttons on the front of the unit, compare this to Sony which one is lucky to get PLAY, STOP and EJECT

Thanks to all of you.
I have been using my pio 640 for about 6 or 7 years, I have copied maybe 200 dvd's, I always finalize my discs and I always use video mode. and I use high quality dvd's. Some disc will play in my pio 410 and some will freeze and studder. (my pio 410 is only a couple of years old and used very little) I thought maybe it was the 410. I've even ripped some of the discs to my PC HDD and burned them back to a DVD, some will play and some will still freeze and studder in the 410.
But all of my discs will play in my 640, like I said I was trying to save ware n tear on my 640 by using the 410 for play back.
I guess I'll buy a new player.

No, most were designed prior to the "640-Sony-RAM" series of recorders. With Pioneer players you give up the RAM feature but gain compatibility to play most major PC video files from disc.

Quote:

Also I didn't think the 410 was that old of a model,

Its hard to say: there may have been more than one variation of 410. The North American brochure is dated 2008 but review sites list it as a 2005 model: confusing.

Note to sdssds: one of the 410 reviews suggested you can sometimes fix the "won't read burned discs" issue by performing a hardware reset similar to the one used when Pioneer recorders act strangely. Turn the unit off, press and hold the front panel STOP button, and while holding down STOP press and hold STANDBY/POWER button until the unit turns on again. This should clear any hangups in the microprocessors which might be interfering with disc recognition (evidently, this is a known bug that other owners have encountered). If the reset doesn't work, you probably need another player.

Re using your 640 as a player: one of the members here, Super Eye, posted info he gleaned from speaking directly to a Pioneer tech. One point was that straight playback or recording to DVD in real time is not nearly as stressful to the laser as high-speed dubbing from the HDD. Individual units may differ, but it sounds like you haven't heavily used your 640 for burning, so odds are good using it as a player for awhile shouldn't put very much extra wear on it. Having repaired many a Pioneer recorder myself, I would suggest you still look for a replacement player: better safe than sorry. Also, the 640 analog video output does not look as good on a large flat screen as the HDMI upscaling from a good dedicated player (whenever I switch from my workhorse 450 recorder with HDMI to my 640 without HDMI, I'm disappointed by the softer playback: HDMI really improves the appearance of SD TV recordings).

Playback takes even less, a lot less laser power than real time burning. I think 1x burning takes 5 to 10 times the laser power of playback and 6x burning takes something like 3 times more laser power than 1x burning. That said I still don’t recommend anyone using a fancy DVD recorder for basic playback. There is a lot more to wear and tear than just the laser. Moving parts for one. I think it was 234 in the Magnavox thread who wrote that the servo spinning the disc would most likely wear out before the laser. Don’t forget lasers DO prematurely fail.

As to your Pioneer 410 not playing all discs – did you try cleaning the laser with a cleaner disc? If so and it didn’t help did you take the top cover off and see if you can reach the laser and clean it manually? Is the unit making strange noises? As to the laser – I believe players have a much weaker laser than recorders and don’t forget lasers DO prematurely fail. If cleaning the laser or the hardware reset doesn’t help look for another player.

Thank you, Super Eye
I'll try all of that
Quote " I believe players have a much weaker laser than recorders" do you recommend buying a cheap no thrills recorder/player over a player for my disc playbacks? I do a lot of playbacks (sometimes 3 or 4 a day. I tape movies, nascar races, peyton manning football games, etc (1 or 2 recordings per week average) I usually record them to my pio 640, then copy to dvd, play dvd, rip dvd to my PC HDD and then archive the disc for later playback for whenever.

do you recommend buying a cheap no thrills recorder/player over a player for my disc playbacks? [...]

I'm sure Super Eye will reply after turkey day , meantime I'll give you my own take on this: there is no longer any such thing as a "cheap no-frills DVD recorder/player." DVD recorders have been steadily dying out as a consumer product category, today there are very few left and the price spread is not what it was. Even the "cheap" recorders are expensive, relative to what type of recording you do.

If you were thinking a new DVD recorder might make better sense than buying another DVD player, the answer depends on several personal factors. First, where do you get your TV signal? From off-air antenna, cable box, or satellite box? If you use an antenna, the best DVD recorder/player value today is the Magnavox MDR533 DVD/HDD recorder for $228 from WalMart website. It is very similar to your Pioneer 640, but not quite as elegant or smooth in operation. However, it has a modern digital 16:9 tuner that makes spectacular off-air recordings and a 320GB hard drive (double the capacity of your 640). It also has HDMI output to improve playback on 16:9 televisions. The Magnavox DVD burner is very rugged and replacement burners are both reasonably-priced and user-installable. With the larger capacity HDD, you would not need to copy recordings so quickly to DVD: instead, let them pile up on the HDD until you have time to watch them. This way, you only burn DVDs of shows you've confirmed you want to keep. Note the Magnavox is also available with 500GB or 1 Terabyte HDD at slightly higher prices. If you have cable TV or satellite TV, the Magnavox DVD/HDD models are still excellent but not quite as convenient. The tuner can get some cable channels directly off the wire, but cable is increasingly shifting to required decoder boxes. A decoder box means connecting to line input instead of the tuner, and setting timers on both the recorder and the decoder box. Many of us do this, because we still like the convenience of HDD in our Pioneers, Panasonics or the Magnavox.

BUT, it depends on your recording habits. If you are quite sure you will want to keep 90% of what you record, and are already in the habit of burning every single recording on your 640 HDD to dvds, you may not really need the full benefits of the HDD feature. Instead, you could buy a Magnavox or Toshiba "tunerless" DVD recorder with no HDD: these connect to your decoder box via line input, and record directly to DVD (you bypass the in-between step of dubbing from HDD to DVD). New retail prices of these non-tuner non-HDD models are not that attractive: bizarrely, they aren't much cheaper than the superb Magnavox 533 model with tuner and HDD. But if you shop carefully for "refurb" deals (open box returns), you can sometimes snag them for $99-$129. Many budget-minded folks are happy with these refurb units because they're cheap, but if you are used to the Pioneer 640 with HDD you would likely have a hard time adjusting to the limitations. If you want good quality video, DVDs are limited to two hours per disc: you run out of unattended recording capacity very easily. Unless you do all of your recording while at home in front of the TV, a recorder without HDD makes timer recording a difficult juggling act.

Honestly, if it were me I'd go for the Magnavox 533 with HDD. Besides being a good DVD player, the HDD feature makes the 513 an excellent backup recorder to your aging Pio 640, which may croak on you within the next year or two anyway (Pioneers historically have about a 6 year lifespan before they start failing to burn DVDs reliably). Your Pioneer may well reach its 10th birthday without a hiccup, some do, but its always good to have a spare recorder at your fingertips. I have two Magnavox and two Pioneer recorders stored away against the future, in case my currently-active Pioneers tank and I can't source repair parts anymore.

If you can afford it, another alternative is the import-model Panasonic EH59 or EH69 recorder. These are feature-laden DVD/HDD models, even more elaborate than the Pioneer 640, with an array of convenience features that make them ideal for those who do a ton of timer recordings. They are pricey at approx $380, and don't have tuners, but they make excellent line-input recorders. For a comparison between these Panasonics and the Magnavox, see this recent AVS thread.

Or, just forget all that and pick up a $39 Philips or Sony DVD player from a chain store during the holiday sales.

First, I want to clarify how I record, and then I would like your opinions.
I have directv w/ a HD DVR receiver. I record football game, etc. to the directv DVR, (go do something else while the game is recording) later I watch the game decide if I want to keep it, if I do I then set my pio to timer recording, usually set speed to MN19 (appox 2:10) record the game commercials and all (go do something else while recording tp pio) later I edit out the commercials, etc and then or at a later time I copy to disc. question: I usually copy to disc at high speed, but have changed the recording mode to optimize a few times---which is less wear n tear on my recorder? Now knowing how I actually go thru the process of recording a game, I would like your opinions----would the mag 533 or the pan 59 better suit my needs, ease of use, learning curve, etc. Thanks

Assuming you end up with a new HDD recorder or use the Pio 640, why not record the game to its HDD simultaneously with the DVR recording using a coordinated timer program? Then you can decide if you want to keep it or delete it from the HDD, but you'll have a 1st gen. on the HDD rather than a 2nd gen. from the DVR.

One of the big benefits of a HDD recorder is the ability to record stuff "on spec" (just in case) and simply delete it if it turns out you don't want or need it.

wajo, I use to do that, for for some reason directv (has changed something) because now if I record directly to my pio, a pop up box appears on screen saying something like "you don't have HDMI HD cable" , I don't think the pio has HD hookup does it.

No HDMI on the 640, but it sounds as if you might just need to find the "secret" to your connections and what's ON while recording the original program.

Here's a help file with some tips. See esp. MrNews posts on having to have his HDMI-connected HDTV ON while recording. That might be something you're not doing now, or one of the other tips might apply to your situation?

The way that I read the exact message, It is a WARNING! HD cable not detected "If I'm reading it correctly it means pio 640 is not HD
It will still let me record, but that window will pop up every once in awhile as a warning, therefore I'm actually recording message, I suppose I could edit the warning out but sometimes the warning will stay onscreen for 20-30 seconds. Is gen2 that much worse than gen1, that I should find an answer to this? Just asking!

I believe it's just a message that it doesn't detect a "live" HDMI connection since your TV is probably off when you do your original timer recording? (I assume your STB is connected to the TV via HDMI?)

The STB is sensing the "live" connection to the DVDR but not to the TV via HDMI? One way to "control" your viewing habots.

Yes I do have HDMI from sat box to tv.
In order to record to my pio I need to use my tv remote, and change from HDMI 1 to SVideo in the tv menu.
I don't know maybe I'm doing something wrong, maybe something is hooked up wrong, but I've been living with it for a couple of years now, it's not that bad. Wajo thanks for your help. I've read some of your posts, you are very helpful to many of us.

question: I usually copy to disc at high speed, but have changed the recording mode to optimize a few times---which is less wear n tear on my recorder?

I would keep copying in high-speed. In high-speed copying you’re retaining bit-for-bit from the Pioneer HDD to DVD that means no extra gen-loss. Changing the record mode to real-time means a slight gen-loss as the recorder has to recode from HDD to DVD. Either way I wouldn’t worry about stressing out the Pioneer. Sure high-speed takes more laser-power and generates more heat but the burn takes a shorter time to finish. As long as you don’t continually high-speed copy disc after disc without cooling off the deck you should be OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wajo

Assuming you end up with a new HDD recorder or use the Pio 640, why not record the game to its HDD simultaneously with the DVR recording using a coordinated timer program? Then you can decide if you want to keep it or delete it from the HDD, but you'll have a 1st gen. on the HDD rather than a 2nd gen. from the DVR.

A cable or satellite DVR captures the signal unto the DVR’s HDD bit-for-bit so there is no difference in generation whether you grab it live off the satellite DVR or recorded of the DVRs HDD as it’s the exact same bit-for bit signal either way. The only generation loss is going from the DVR’s output to the Pioneers input. Another generation loss would occur if the member decided to trancode from the Pioneer’s HDD to the DVD in real-time.

Thank you, Super Eye
I'll try all of that
Quote " I believe players have a much weaker laser than recorders" do you recommend buying a cheap no thrills recorder/player over a player for my disc playbacks? I do a lot of playbacks (sometimes 3 or 4 a day. I tape movies, nascar races, peyton manning football games, etc (1 or 2 recordings per week average) I usually record them to my pio 640, then copy to dvd, play dvd, rip dvd to my PC HDD and then archive the disc for later playback for whenever.

I think players are better than recorders at playing discs. They load faster and have more features and as CitiBear stated a player with HDMI out should give a better picture connected to a digital TV. Even though recorders have more laser-power that extra laser power is only used for recording. Using so much power for playback would damage a homemade disc by burning over the recorded signal.

I would keep using the Pioneer 640 recorder as you are. Sounds like you’re taking good care of it by using quality discs for burning and saving on wear n tear by not using it for playback.

The Pioneer 410 and 420 have very good reputations as players. Maybe try getting a used one off craigslist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitiBear

I'm sure Super Eye will reply after turkey day ,

I’m not sure exactly why but did you know that Canada ’s Thanksgiving is on the second Monday in October?

CitiBear I wanted “your” opinion. How is the Magnavox as a player. I don’t know as I don’t own one and I want your opinion. The OP could consider a Mag for both record and playback and preserve his Pioneer for “special recordings only” Then again as cheap as the Mag is – it’s a lot more than a player would cost the OP.

Re my personal opinion of the Magnavox DVD/HDD recorders when used as DVD players, I think they're rather good and better than most people would expect from a recorder (traditionally, DVD recorders are not as good for playback as dedicated players). Like most recorders, the Magnavox is dead slow to load a DVD for playback, but not dramatically slower than a Pioneer 640. I think it seems slower because the Magnavox shows an on-screen bar graph while it loads the disc, and by watching the bar graph move slowly you get the feeling the machine is slower than it really is. Once a DVD is loaded, the Magnavox has a few very nice playback options not usually found in recorders (including what I think is hands down the best "speed play with sound" audio quality I have ever heard: WAY better than the Pioneers). You also get fairly decent HDMI upscaling for large screen TVs. What I don't like is the ridiculously tiny front panel display: its all but useless for quickly eyeballing the time remaining (the Pioneer and Panasonic time counters are literally 600% larger). Also, the Magnavox remotes are kinda awful compared to others (although it is nicer on the newer 533 model than last years 513).

Ordinarily it would not make much sense to opt for the Magnavox 533 recorder when one is in the market for a dedicated player, but in this case I think it might be a sensible investment. As a recorder, the Pioneer 640 is getting quite elderly: it might last another four years, or it could easily become a doorstop tomorrow. Even when parts were still available, replacing the burner in a 640 cost $250 + labor. For less than that amount, the Magnavox 533 offers a complete new additional recorder as insurance in case the 640 expires, with desirable features like HDMI, modern DTV tuner and sophisticated chase play buffer that are missing from the 640.

sdssds, now that you've given us some background on your existing setup and recording habits, it is easier to advise you. If you don't want to spend significant money right now, just get a cheap DVD player to supplement your 640. Keep using the 640 as you've been doing, and use the new player to replace your funky 410. If you think you might like to spend the extra to have a spare recorder that can double as a player, I would suggest the Magnavox 533 over the Panasonic EH59. The Panasonic has some notable advantages for those who use it as their primary recorder, don't have a PVR in their decoder box, and do a lot of editing. But your needs might be better served by the less expensive Magnavox: you already have the integrated PVR in your satellite box for daily recording tasks, and you mostly dub sports events from the satellite PVR to your 640. At $228, the Magnavox is reasonably priced as a combination player and backup HDD recorder. It should remain available from WalMart until at least the end of 2013, beyond that no one can be sure. It gets discontinued and brought back every 18 months, but this might be the final go-round.

The Panasonics run closer to $400 unless you can snag an open box/demo unit on clearance. That price makes buying a recorder to double as a player more serious a commitment. The advantages Panasonics have over the Magnavox are subtle, and may not be that big a deal to someone like yourself who already has a subscription decoder/PVR. The editing interface for cutting commercials is a little nicer, there is an extensive custom memory that can store multiple text titles and DVD layouts for repetitive use, the remote control is better, and recording quality for sports is arguably better IF one were using the Panasonic as their primary recorder (i.e., not dubbing from a decoder box PVR). Burner longevity is a draw between Panasonic and Magnavox: both are more durable than the Pioneer 640 burner design. The Panasonic is known to go a minimum 3000 burns before wearing out, and 5000 is not uncommon, but Panasonic burners have an annoying tendency to suck in dust that requires disassembly to clean. If you smoke or live in a dusty environment, you might need to take apart and clean your Panasonic once a year. The Magnavox might not reach 5000 burns, but so far has proved incredibly durable and does not require a cleaning regimen. Also, if you do encounter a burner failure you can just rip it out and replace it with a new one for about $70 (Panasonic burners are now like Pioneer burners: unobtanium).

The problem you're having with the decoder box displaying a warning over the line outputs was caused by a software "upgrade" that was automatically loaded to all customers awhile back. A lot of people here complain about it. There is no way to get rid of this display unless you go into the box settings and change the HDMI output from 1080 or 720 to 480i each and every time you want to dub something to a DVD recorder. Some people just give up and leave it permanently set to 480i, but this results in sub-par picture quality when you switch back to watching the decoder box directly. Although it is a big pain to switch the settings each time, it optimizes the TV PQ when not running off the DVD recorder/player.

Thanks for the review of the Magnavox “playback” CitiBear. Something I don’t see often as it’s usually the recording, tuner or editing features talked about.

Regarding the durability of the Sony laser in the Pioneers I don’t think its all that bad. You see the ugly on your bench but you don’t see the good in the real world. For every failed laser you see there are probably tons of good lasers going strong that you don’t hear about. People are more vocal when they experience problems and usually silent when everything is working properly. That said there are many cases right here at AVS with people that burned thousands of discs on their Pioneers with the units still going strong. I honestly don’t believe that the Panasonic lasers hold out any better.

You’re like the ER staff at the Chicago trauma center in the gang infested neighborhood. They see many shooting victims everyday but that doesn’t mean that the majority of people are shot.

Chicago Violence:
SPECIAL REPORT: Memorial Day weekend in Chicago: Over a span of 72 hours, gunfire claims the lives of a dozen people. Another 45 are shot and wounded.

CitiBear.
Can you tell me one more thing? Does the Magnavox have a setting for switching the display between 1) total elapsed time, 2) total remain time, 3) chapter elapsed time, 4) chapter remain time. It’s really too bad that Wal-Mart Canada doesn’t sell the deck.

Can you tell me one more thing? Does the Magnavox have a setting for switching the display between 1) total elapsed time, 2) total remain time, 3) chapter elapsed time, 4) chapter remain time. It’s really too bad that Wal-Mart Canada doesn’t sell the deck.

Not on the front panel display: it only indicates elapsed playing time. Pressing DISPLAY brings up an on-screen overlay, positioned at the top of the frame, indicating "title x of x," "chapter x of x," the elapsed playing time of the current title, and total running time of the current title. You can figure the total remaining title time in your head by subtracting the currently displayed elapsed time from the fixed total, but there is no indication for aggregate disc running time unless the disc has only one title on it.There may be a way to change the display readout, but I don't use the Magnavox often enough to try and discover it.

The on-screen playing time display includes small small cryptic icons for other playback features, among them a handy option I forgot to mention in an earlier post: if you select the little magnifying glass icon, you get the option of hardware zoom in increments of 1.2x, 1.5x, and 2x. This can help identify small details or clues in the frame that catch your eye, esp in mysteries, or used in combination with your TV zoom control offers additional framing possibilities for letterboxed videos.

Quote:

Regarding the durability of the Sony laser in the Pioneers I don’t think its all that bad. You see the ugly on your bench but you don’t see the good in the real world. For every failed laser you see there are probably tons of good lasers going strong that you don’t hear about. People are more vocal when they experience problems and usually silent when everything is working properly. That said there are many cases right here at AVS with people that burned thousands of discs on their Pioneers with the units still going strong. I honestly don’t believe that the Panasonic lasers hold out any better.

Super Eye, my comments comparing the Pioneer/Sony burners to the Panasonic and Magnavox burners may have been a little unclear. I did not mean to imply the Pioneer/Sony burners were vastly inferior, they are not, but statistically they do tend to exhibit wear symptoms earlier than the others and when they become impractical to use there are no home remedies to repair or replace them. The proprietary Pioneer/Sony burner in the 640 is more-or-less unavailable as a replacement part, and if you did manage to find one it costs in the vicinity of $250 wholesale (although there was a small cache of them unearthed by an eBay dealer last month, at very good prices: this is extremely unusual and I'm really annoyed I did not catch the listing until it was over). Unlike the Panasonic and Magnavox, and earlier Pioneers, the 640-era Pioneers have the burner semi-permanently installed: removing it is not a task I would take on lightly.

It is for these reasons I do not recommend relying totally and forever on a Pioneer 640 mf'd in 2006. Six years of age in recorder years is like 75 years of human age: things start to deteriorate. Some of us are like Betty White, and will go on to age 110 with no functional issues , while others are in deep trouble well before we hit 75. Depends on the specific recorder and other variables like cleanliness of AC power and quality/quantity of DVDs run through the unit. The 640 burner is durable, but historically many develop problems burning some brands of 16x media after 2-3 years, then work fine with 8x media for a few more years, until finally getting cranky with even 8x media at roughly the five-six year mark. Along the way, problems with DVD-RAM and -+RW may also increase. Since the 640 burner is heavily sealed and practically welded inside the recorder, it is difficult if not impossible to open it to see if cleaning might help. One can try different brands/speeds of blank media, moistening the DVD hub with saliva, or various hardware resets: sometimes this will work to restore functionality for awhile. But eventually, a 640 will reach the point where it becomes strictly an HDD timeshift box. Whether that happens in 2010, 2012, or 2015 is pure chance.

In this particular burner comparison, we're discussing a six-year-old Pioneer 640 vs a brand new Magnavox 533 or Panasonic EH59. In planning for the future, the newer models have advantages making them a worthwhile backup or addition to a 640. The Magnavox burner is probably the single least-picky DVD recorder burner I've ever used: the thing will burn coffee can lids. It is also the least likely to get balky when making repeated copies of the same DVD (say, 4 within an hour). Since its introduction in the 2007 Magnavox 2160, this burner design has rarely been reported to fail outright: an amazing rep considering the low retail price and high volume of user reports. If it does fail, the mfr will sell replacement burners to the end user for only $70, which is 70% less than what other recorder brands charged: gives one a feeling of security. The Panasonic burners have a stellar durability rep, with noticeably longer and more-consistent laser life than other recorders. They do require periodic maintenance, which is a pain, OTOH they are far more amenable to partial disassembly for cleaning than the Pio/Sony design. Replacement burners for the EH59 are virtually unobtainable, and would be impractically expensive if they were, but then a newly-bought EH59 should carry you well into 2018 at which point we'll all be recording to holographic cubes anyway.

I'm not knocking the Pioneer/Sony burners: I prefer my Pioneer recorders above all others I have used, and my Pioneer 640, 450, and 460 are my main workhorses. Unfortunately Pioneer exited the recorder business four years ago, and Sony stopped making its twin models at the same time. If they were still available new, I'd recommend them without hesitation. But they are gone, along with many other classic models: today, all we have left in USA are the Panasonic import units or the Magnavox series. Both are fine, durable recorders: anyone who has a deep-rooted preference for standalone DVD/HDD recorders should consider buying one as a backup unit and hedge against the future. A six year old Pioneer 640, no matter how wonderful, is still six years old. Very very few DVD recorder models, of any brand, have survived with intact functionality much beyond six years. Of course some people are very lucky, with 2003-era models still going strong- but its a small minority, most of them are Panasonic models, and most have had major components in the power supply replaced. Typical lifespan of a DVD recorder is five to six years.