I'll make one thing clear. I'm not a Lebron fan. It has nothing to do with his basketball style, though. I just get a sense of entitlement that really rubs me the wrong way. I suppose it could be argued that all things considered, it's a miracle that he isn't MORE entitled than he is.

Anyways -

The one thing that bugs me about the Jordan comps, and the James analysis - he is constantly criticized for making the CORRECT basketball play. I'm not talking about listlessly deferring while standing on the perimeter - no, the Spurs are making an effort to either force James into long range jumpers (a strategy that wont work for long, I promise you) or forcing the Heat's role players to beat them.

Take the end of game 1 for instance. Lebron drives to his right, gets doubled, with a third man shading over, and there's Chris Bosh - wide open - James passes the ball. It's a fairly make-able shot for Bosh, one that the Spurs have decided that they have to live with, and he misses. If it goes down, perhaps the game goes different, and so does the narrative.

Jordan is / was a one of a kind player. The greatest competitor I've ever seen - but he influenced the following generation in an extremely negative way. Suddenly, (or not so suddenly, I'm not sure) - a great player is expected, and encouraged to force extremely bad shots - and maybe they're make-able because Lebron is so great, blah blah blah - but it's frustrating to me to see a player involving he team, as he's supposed to, and he's looked down upon.

But screw all that. Go Spurs, Go!

TD is my favorite NBA player, I love how all 5 guys share the ball - they're just the goddamn best.

No one will ever be Jordan, no one will have thet mental make up ever, the closest we ever got was Kobe. 'Bron is just a different beast completely, he is the best player in the world currently and its not even close.

He's just fun to watch for me personally, dude can literally do it all! And I don't understand for the life of me why everyone feels the need to be a critic for his game, why can't people just sit and watch one of the best to do it?

Throwdown wrote:No one will ever be Jordan, no one will have thet mental make up ever, the closest we ever got was Kobe. 'Bron is just a different beast completely, he is the best player in the world currently and its not even close.

He's just fun to watch for me personally, dude can literally do it all! And I don't understand for the life of me why everyone feels the need to be a critic for his game, why can't people just sit and watch one of the best to do it?

I did have this conversation with peaches the other day lol.

Yeah, we did, lol. It's always going to be a discussion. I don't think it should all be about rings. If it was, then Bill Russell would be the GOAT and there'd be no discussion. LeBron is a fantastic player. We can make critiques all we want, but when you see him out on the court, he's like a man among boys. I wouldn't be unhappy if he was on my favorite team, and neither would anyone else.

Throwdown wrote:No one will ever be Jordan, no one will have thet mental make up ever, the closest we ever got was Kobe. 'Bron is just a different beast completely, he is the best player in the world currently and its not even close.

He's just fun to watch for me personally, dude can literally do it all! And I don't understand for the life of me why everyone feels the need to be a critic for his game, why can't people just sit and watch one of the best to do it?

I did have this conversation with peaches the other day lol.

Yeah, we did, lol. It's always going to be a discussion. I don't think it should all be about rings. If it was, then Bill Russell would be the GOAT and there'd be no discussion. LeBron is a fantastic player. We can make critiques all we want, but when you see him out on the court, he's like a man among boys. I wouldn't be unhappy if he was on my favorite team, and neither would anyone else.

Wilt Chamberlain is my GOAT. Say all you want about all the numbers he put up...the most astonishing was the fact that he average liked 48 minutes a game during an era where you were constantly going back and forth on the court and being that big of a guy!

My fellow classmates, if someone asked you who the greatest basketball player of all time is, what would you say? Most of you would say Michael Jordan, right? But I am trying to convince you that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time. LeBron’s overall athleticism, versatility, clutch playoff performances, and his lack of a supporting cast in Cleveland all shows that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.

I’ll start with Lebron’s athleticism and versatility. LeBron James is the most imposing physical presence and talent in all of sports. LeBron James stands at 6 foot 8 inches and weighs close to 300 pounds with only 5% body fat. The average NBA player can cover the length of the court in 13 strides; LeBron can go cross-court in only 9 steps. LeBron has also been timed at running over 20 miles per hour which is as fast as NBA speedster Chris Paul. When passing, LeBron can get off a 40 mile per hour pass in 0.18 seconds, while the average NFL quarterback can throw a pass at .40 seconds. From 35 feet away, LeBron can hit his target faster than Tom Brady can hit his receiver from the same distance. LeBron also has an un-blockable jump shot where he releases it at over 9 feet of the ground. If a 6’9’’ defender is 3 feet away, he can’t even get a hand within a foot of the ball. This uncontestable shot is one of the reasons his catch and shoot percentage this year is at 64% higher than his teammate and the greatest pure shooter of all time, Ray Allen. The average NBA center is 6’10 with a 32 inch vertical having a range of 3600 cubic feet. LeBron is 6’8 with a 44 inch vertical giving him a range of 4100 cubic feet. This athleticism makes him the most versatile player in the league with the ability to play any position at a high level. When Michael Jordan played, he could only impact the game by scoring. Because of Lebron’s athleticism, he can impact the game in so many ways other than scoring, such as distributing the ball, grabbing rebounds, and playing defense.

We’ll now take a look at LeBron and Michael Jordan’s stats at the age of 28, which is LeBron James’ current age. I’ll start with regular season stats. Lebron has 21,081 points while MJ had 16,596 points, Lebron has 5,553 rebounds while MJ had 3186. LeBron also has 5,302 assists and MJ had only 3018. Lebron also has 4 MVPs, 9 all star appearances and was named all NBA 1st team 7 times all at the age of 28. Jordan had 2 MVPS, 7 all star appearances and was named all NBA 1st team just 5 times. In their post season appearances by the age of 28, Lebron has Jordan beat in every stat. LeBron was never eliminated from the playoffs while Jordan was 3 times. Lebron had 3712 points, 1133 rebounds, and 885 assists in the playoffs while MJ had 2425 points, 476 rebounds, and 497 assists. They each had 1 championship and 1 finals MVP, and LeBron is currently taking on the Spurs in the finals trying to win his second championship.

One of the biggest misconceptions in basketball is when people say that LeBron James isn’t clutch. He is actually the opposite of that, and is very clutch. Over his career, Michael Jordan was 9-18, or 50% on clutch playoff shots which is a shot with less than 24 seconds remaining to take the lead or tie the game. LeBron James is 7-16 or 44% on those shots in his career. Lebron and Jordan are two of the most clutch performers of all time, and you can compare their percentages to Kobe’s career percentage of 26. Those two legends make Kobe look average. LeBron has had countless clutch playoff performances such as when he scored the final 25 points of the game for his team to beat the Pistons in the eastern conference finals. In this game, he also hit the shot to send the game into overtime and then hit the game-winner in overtime. Since the 2006 postseason, only 4 times has a player scored at least 30 points with a triple double. All four of those players were LeBron James. LeBron James and Oscar Robertson are the only players ever to accomplish that stat 4 times. LeBron James now has 10 playoff triple doubles which is 3rd all time and higher than Michael Jordan. One of the best playoff buzzer beaters of all time was when LeBron hit the game winning 3 against Orlando in the playoffs.

When LeBron played in Cleveland, he had no supporting cast. But when Michael Jordan was in Chicago, he had one of the best supporting casts in all of the NBA. LeBron played with Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas as his main supporting cast. Between those 4 players, they combined for only 2 all star appearances. Jordan had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant, and BJ Armstrong. Between those 4 players, there are 2 hall of famers in Pippen and Rodman, and 11 all star appearances. LeBron carried the Cavaliers to the finals in 2007, and carried that team every year. Jordan had help in Chicago. LeBron’s last year in Cleveland, the Cavs were 61-21 and had the #1 seed. The next year without LeBron, the Cavs went 19-63 and had the worst record in the league. Michael Jordan’s last year with the Bulls, they went 57-25 and had the #2 seed. The next year without Jordan, the Bulls went 55-27 and had the #3 seed.

I think I have provided you with enough evidence to prove that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player in NBA history. All the evidence provided shows that he is better than Michael Jordan, and will continue to add to his resume for the rest of his career, and by the time he retires, will be considered the greatest of all time even though he already is.

seahawks875 wrote:I wrote this for my persuasive speech in my English class a week ago:

My fellow classmates, if someone asked you who the greatest basketball player of all time is, what would you say? Most of you would say Michael Jordan, right? But I am trying to convince you that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time. LeBron’s overall athleticism, versatility, clutch playoff performances, and his lack of a supporting cast in Cleveland all shows that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.

I’ll start with Lebron’s athleticism and versatility. LeBron James is the most imposing physical presence and talent in all of sports. LeBron James stands at 6 foot 8 inches and weighs close to 300 pounds with only 5% body fat. The average NBA player can cover the length of the court in 13 strides; LeBron can go cross-court in only 9 steps. LeBron has also been timed at running over 20 miles per hour which is as fast as NBA speedster Chris Paul. When passing, LeBron can get off a 40 mile per hour pass in 0.18 seconds, while the average NFL quarterback can throw a pass at .40 seconds. From 35 feet away, LeBron can hit his target faster than Tom Brady can hit his receiver from the same distance. LeBron also has an un-blockable jump shot where he releases it at over 9 feet of the ground. If a 6’9’’ defender is 3 feet away, he can’t even get a hand within a foot of the ball. This uncontestable shot is one of the reasons his catch and shoot percentage this year is at 64% higher than his teammate and the greatest pure shooter of all time, Ray Allen. The average NBA center is 6’10 with a 32 inch vertical having a range of 3600 cubic feet. LeBron is 6’8 with a 44 inch vertical giving him a range of 4100 cubic feet. This athleticism makes him the most versatile player in the league with the ability to play any position at a high level. When Michael Jordan played, he could only impact the game by scoring. Because of Lebron’s athleticism, he can impact the game in so many ways other than scoring, such as distributing the ball, grabbing rebounds, and playing defense.

We’ll now take a look at LeBron and Michael Jordan’s stats at the age of 28, which is LeBron James’ current age. I’ll start with regular season stats. Lebron has 21,081 points while MJ had 16,596 points, Lebron has 5,553 rebounds while MJ had 3186. LeBron also has 5,302 assists and MJ had only 3018. Lebron also has 4 MVPs, 9 all star appearances and was named all NBA 1st team 7 times all at the age of 28. Jordan had 2 MVPS, 7 all star appearances and was named all NBA 1st team just 5 times. In their post season appearances by the age of 28, Lebron has Jordan beat in every stat. LeBron was never eliminated from the playoffs while Jordan was 3 times. Lebron had 3712 points, 1133 rebounds, and 885 assists in the playoffs while MJ had 2425 points, 476 rebounds, and 497 assists. They each had 1 championship and 1 finals MVP, and LeBron is currently taking on the Spurs in the finals trying to win his second championship.

One of the biggest misconceptions in basketball is when people say that LeBron James isn’t clutch. He is actually the opposite of that, and is very clutch. Over his career, Michael Jordan was 9-18, or 50% on clutch playoff shots which is a shot with less than 24 seconds remaining to take the lead or tie the game. LeBron James is 7-16 or 44% on those shots in his career. Lebron and Jordan are two of the most clutch performers of all time, and you can compare their percentages to Kobe’s career percentage of 26. Those two legends make Kobe look average. LeBron has had countless clutch playoff performances such as when he scored the final 25 points of the game for his team to beat the Pistons in the eastern conference finals. In this game, he also hit the shot to send the game into overtime and then hit the game-winner in overtime. Since the 2006 postseason, only 4 times has a player scored at least 30 points with a triple double. All four of those players were LeBron James. LeBron James and Oscar Robertson are the only players ever to accomplish that stat 4 times. LeBron James now has 10 playoff triple doubles which is 3rd all time and higher than Michael Jordan. One of the best playoff buzzer beaters of all time was when LeBron hit the game winning 3 against Orlando in the playoffs.

When LeBron played in Cleveland, he had no supporting cast. But when Michael Jordan was in Chicago, he had one of the best supporting casts in all of the NBA. LeBron played with Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas as his main supporting cast. Between those 4 players, they combined for only 2 all star appearances. Jordan had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant, and BJ Armstrong. Between those 4 players, there are 2 hall of famers in Pippen and Rodman, and 11 all star appearances. LeBron carried the Cavaliers to the finals in 2007, and carried that team every year. Jordan had help in Chicago. LeBron’s last year in Cleveland, the Cavs were 61-21 and had the #1 seed. The next year without LeBron, the Cavs went 19-63 and had the worst record in the league. Michael Jordan’s last year with the Bulls, they went 57-25 and had the #2 seed. The next year without Jordan, the Bulls went 55-27 and had the #3 seed.

I think I have provided you with enough evidence to prove that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player in NBA history. All the evidence provided shows that he is better than Michael Jordan, and will continue to add to his resume for the rest of his career, and by the time he retires, will be considered the greatest of all time even though he already is.

seahawks875 wrote:I wrote this for my persuasive speech in my English class a week ago:

My fellow classmates, if someone asked you who the greatest basketball player of all time is, what would you say? Most of you would say Michael Jordan, right? But I am trying to convince you that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time. LeBron’s overall athleticism, versatility, clutch playoff performances, and his lack of a supporting cast in Cleveland all shows that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.

I’ll start with Lebron’s athleticism and versatility. LeBron James is the most imposing physical presence and talent in all of sports. LeBron James stands at 6 foot 8 inches and weighs close to 300 pounds with only 5% body fat. The average NBA player can cover the length of the court in 13 strides; LeBron can go cross-court in only 9 steps. LeBron has also been timed at running over 20 miles per hour which is as fast as NBA speedster Chris Paul. When passing, LeBron can get off a 40 mile per hour pass in 0.18 seconds, while the average NFL quarterback can throw a pass at .40 seconds. From 35 feet away, LeBron can hit his target faster than Tom Brady can hit his receiver from the same distance. LeBron also has an un-blockable jump shot where he releases it at over 9 feet of the ground. If a 6’9’’ defender is 3 feet away, he can’t even get a hand within a foot of the ball. This uncontestable shot is one of the reasons his catch and shoot percentage this year is at 64% higher than his teammate and the greatest pure shooter of all time, Ray Allen. The average NBA center is 6’10 with a 32 inch vertical having a range of 3600 cubic feet. LeBron is 6’8 with a 44 inch vertical giving him a range of 4100 cubic feet. This athleticism makes him the most versatile player in the league with the ability to play any position at a high level. When Michael Jordan played, he could only impact the game by scoring. Because of Lebron’s athleticism, he can impact the game in so many ways other than scoring, such as distributing the ball, grabbing rebounds, and playing defense.

We’ll now take a look at LeBron and Michael Jordan’s stats at the age of 28, which is LeBron James’ current age. I’ll start with regular season stats. Lebron has 21,081 points while MJ had 16,596 points, Lebron has 5,553 rebounds while MJ had 3186. LeBron also has 5,302 assists and MJ had only 3018. Lebron also has 4 MVPs, 9 all star appearances and was named all NBA 1st team 7 times all at the age of 28. Jordan had 2 MVPS, 7 all star appearances and was named all NBA 1st team just 5 times. In their post season appearances by the age of 28, Lebron has Jordan beat in every stat. LeBron was never eliminated from the playoffs while Jordan was 3 times. Lebron had 3712 points, 1133 rebounds, and 885 assists in the playoffs while MJ had 2425 points, 476 rebounds, and 497 assists. They each had 1 championship and 1 finals MVP, and LeBron is currently taking on the Spurs in the finals trying to win his second championship.

One of the biggest misconceptions in basketball is when people say that LeBron James isn’t clutch. He is actually the opposite of that, and is very clutch. Over his career, Michael Jordan was 9-18, or 50% on clutch playoff shots which is a shot with less than 24 seconds remaining to take the lead or tie the game. LeBron James is 7-16 or 44% on those shots in his career. Lebron and Jordan are two of the most clutch performers of all time, and you can compare their percentages to Kobe’s career percentage of 26. Those two legends make Kobe look average. LeBron has had countless clutch playoff performances such as when he scored the final 25 points of the game for his team to beat the Pistons in the eastern conference finals. In this game, he also hit the shot to send the game into overtime and then hit the game-winner in overtime. Since the 2006 postseason, only 4 times has a player scored at least 30 points with a triple double. All four of those players were LeBron James. LeBron James and Oscar Robertson are the only players ever to accomplish that stat 4 times. LeBron James now has 10 playoff triple doubles which is 3rd all time and higher than Michael Jordan. One of the best playoff buzzer beaters of all time was when LeBron hit the game winning 3 against Orlando in the playoffs.

When LeBron played in Cleveland, he had no supporting cast. But when Michael Jordan was in Chicago, he had one of the best supporting casts in all of the NBA. LeBron played with Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas as his main supporting cast. Between those 4 players, they combined for only 2 all star appearances. Jordan had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant, and BJ Armstrong. Between those 4 players, there are 2 hall of famers in Pippen and Rodman, and 11 all star appearances. LeBron carried the Cavaliers to the finals in 2007, and carried that team every year. Jordan had help in Chicago. LeBron’s last year in Cleveland, the Cavs were 61-21 and had the #1 seed. The next year without LeBron, the Cavs went 19-63 and had the worst record in the league. Michael Jordan’s last year with the Bulls, they went 57-25 and had the #2 seed. The next year without Jordan, the Bulls went 55-27 and had the #3 seed.

I think I have provided you with enough evidence to prove that LeBron James is the greatest basketball player in NBA history. All the evidence provided shows that he is better than Michael Jordan, and will continue to add to his resume for the rest of his career, and by the time he retires, will be considered the greatest of all time even though he already is.

I give you a A-. Well done.

I got a B+ on it, I got marked down for not having enough supporting evidence, I thought that my whole speech was supporting evidence in the form of stats

The one thing you haven't shown,(perhaps haven't seen yourself) is actual floor play.

I think James is an exceptional player for sure. But most of his moves involve blunt power. Goes directly at the defense most of the time.(please notice I didn't say all the time).

Jordan in the early years didn't have much of a supporting cast either and learned how to dodge, deek, and avoid, much of the defenses against him. He always has looked smoother in his style of play where as James has more of a bull in a china shop style of play.

Again I say you can't make fair comparions of players during different eras tho many of you will keep trying. Also as a Jordan fan I'm willing to listen to detractors and have since he retired. You James fans seem way more confrontational to me.

You like your guy, I like my guy. And trust me, in my opinion Jordan was much more of a pleasure to watch play. He was smooth like Clyde the Glide whereas to me James plays more like Dick Butkus.

James does use more force than finesse, if there was one more thing he could add, its a crossover repertoire to his game. Imagine how deadly he would be if he could break someone down and then get at the basket?

I like how people are arguing that James could be the best of all time when he only has 2 rings. Last I checked, that was one of the main arguments for Wilt Chamberlain not being the best.

You guys can argue til the cows come home about Jordan vs James, and that's fine. They are great players. But Wilt is the best. The stats don't lie. Anyone that big and strong that also has a 42"-48" vertical leap (depending on the source) and can run a 4.4-4.5 forty yard dash and play 48 minutes a game while getting slapped, hacked, pushed, and beaten by multiple defenders without getting a foul called while dominating in scoring, rebounding, blocks, and assists (back when assists had a more strict definition) gets my vote. Also, he was more of a finesse player than James...the finger roll was his go-to move for scoring.

Sorry I know this isn't what this thread is about, but I just had to come chime in again.

In what area is he better than Jordan? LeBron isn't even close to Jordan on any level.

Rebounding, passing, he can guard all 5 positions on defense. Jordan was never asked to guard opposing team's point guard like Tony Parker.

Jordan stated in his biography that his role with the team was not rebounding, his coaches wanted him to save his energy for the offensive end and guarding true wing players.So it's not like Jordan couldn't rebound, he was asked not to prioritize it.

Lebron could not guard Hibbert, Hibbert is not even in the same stratosphere as Shaq,The Dream,Ewing, Robinson... We don't really know if Jordan could guard the 4 because he was again never asked to, He played with Horace Grant, Pippen and Rodman all great post defenders.

Jordan was asked to guard opposing point guards, little known guys like John Stockton, Magic Johnson and Tim Hardaway.

Yes it is and you've been a good sport and only said it about 12 times.

Look this post was mentioning that this sports writer thinks its about time to stop comparing different players of different eras. Something I agree with. Football is the same way. With the rule changes its just a different game than it was at the beginning.

Its also way past time to just let everyone have their own opinion and not being bashed over the head with/about it.

And lastly, it just basketball so who freakin cares. That's the main difference between the 2 for me. When Jordan was playing basketball was a huge sport with a following nearly as large as the NFL. Now? it sucks, no team play, most conversations are about individuals not teams and they are suffering for fans worse than baseball.

In what area is he better than Jordan? LeBron isn't even close to Jordan on any level.

Rebounding, passing, he can guard all 5 positions on defense. Jordan was never asked to guard opposing team's point guard like Tony Parker.

We argue about this because it's fun! Take that Radish.

I grew up in the 80's / 90's Renaissance of the NBA, so I have much, much love for all things basketball. I never thought I'd see a player better than Jordan but I think it's clear that that player is here - he just isn't a "sequel" to Jordan like we want him to be (and as we wanted Kobe to be before that). MJ was as graceful of an athlete as we'll ever see and I think that THIS is the biggest reason that most MJ fans, and people my age and older tend to think that MJ was better - he simply looked better doing it. I know that seems to simple, and it seems to not give Jordan enough credit - but think about how many incredible, iconic "posterizing" moments MJ had...Lebron? With Lebron, almost every dunk looks the same. That block in the Finals was great, but that wouldn't crack Michael's top 10, or maybe even top 20 most memorable, jaw dropping, visually exhilarating moments.

My buddy and I were talking about this the other day. I don't think even the BIGGEST Jordan fan could argue that MJ was better at basketball than Lebron James, as long as they looked at it objectively.

About the only thing that MJ did better than Lebron is shoot the ball, but in the last year James jump shooting has vastly improved, and I see no reason why that wont continue.

Lebron on the other hand is CLEARLY better at many aspects of the game than MJ. As ManU said, he passes the ball better and he rebounds the ball LIKE A MAN. Some of Lebron's advantages are born from the fact that he was afforded physical gifts that Jordan was not (wow, I didn't think I'd ever say / write that). He's 6'8" 300lbs. (I know they list him at 275, I promise he's pushing 3 bills, of muscle mass). He can defend 4 positions, 5 with the death of the traditional center. But I will say it's easy to forget that Jordan was a tenacious defender, something he somehow doesn't get enough credit for despite being All NBA Defense 9 times, and even winning Defensive Player of the Year (something Lebron is yet to do, BTW). But if you think Jordan could defend with the versatility of Lebron you're delusional.

ALL THAT BEING SAID - I don't think their is ANY question that Michael Jordan is 10 times the competitor that Lebron is, and all the good and bad that comes with it. Maybe some day Lebron will even have more titles than MJ, but Jordan never disappeared mysteriously in games, especially big games. Lebron doesn't manufacture beefs, publicly eviscerate teammates, or have a huge gambling problem (that we know of). And hopefully he won't invite someone who took his spot on a HS and /or AAU team to his HoF induction just to put them down.

Strangely enough, I think a very similar situation exists in the tennis world (most of you probably don't give $h*& about that, though). Pete Sampras is my favorite tennis player of all time, and I never thought I'd see a player better, yet I think it's clear, much to my dismay that Federer is just that (but I like to think in his prime, Pete would smoke him). Anyway, despite all his brilliance, Federer just isn't as fun to watch as Pete. Federer is the better athlete, and probably the better player but Sampras's serve and volley style was SO graceful LOOKING that I just can't watch Federer and enjoy it in the same way.