As is the norm in the former Soviet Republics (including Russia) it appears that the vast majority of the money that had been allocated for the Ukrainian military in the last decade had instead been stolen, mis-appropriated, or the goods pilfered and sold elsewhere.

In the US, we just pay our defense contractors outrageous sums to not steal our stuff, and leave it under guard of power-hungry quartermasters and supply clerks.

Ukraine has no real military. They haven't spent any money on it since a decade before the Soviet Union broke up.

What they have is a 1979 Pontiac left to them when they divorced from the SU.

I've seen members of another forum post pictures of their military recently, and I honestly think that they do not realize how far the rest of the world has progressed. These guys are proud to serve, but they are literally no match for anyone.

They are like horse cavalry with pikes, sitting along a border waiting for modern tanks and bombers.

They will be stuck in a tug of war between EU countries and Russia. They have almost no control over their own destiny. If Russia decided they want all of Ukraine, they could walk in and there is nothing Ukraine could do.

U.S. Senators Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL) called for the immediate destruction of 15,000 tons of ammunition, 400,000 small arms and light weapons, and 1,000 man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS) or shoulder missile launchers that are often sought by terrorists.

netcentric:Ukraine buys 1000 bags of potatoes, and 1000 pairs of socks, and is perplexed that some corruption means that 100 bags of socks and potatoes are stolen.

I think you underestimate the corruption in that region. Out of 1000 bags of potatoes 800 are stolen, and 100 are spoiled by the time they get where they are going.

By the way, I want to remind people: there was a promise by the US, EU and IMF that a quick loan will be given to Ukraine, which is truly in a desperate situation. The promise was made as early as Ferbuary 27, timeline was "in a week or two".

Every week since them a promise was repeated and reiterated. Every time it was "in a week or two".

I think people of the West are under the impression that the response to Ukraine's desperate situation was immediate and generous. They are mistaken.

So far, two months later, not a single cent was loaned to Ukraine. Not a dollar, not a Euro, not even a dinar.

Grahor:netcentric: Ukraine buys 1000 bags of potatoes, and 1000 pairs of socks, and is perplexed that some corruption means that 100 bags of socks and potatoes are stolen.

I think you underestimate the corruption in that region. Out of 1000 bags of potatoes 800 are stolen, and 100 are spoiled by the time they get where they are going.

By the way, I want to remind people: there was a promise by the US, EU and IMF that a quick loan will be given to Ukraine, which is truly in a desperate situation. The promise was made as early as Ferbuary 27, timeline was "in a week or two".

Every week since them a promise was repeated and reiterated. Every time it was "in a week or two".

I think people of the West are under the impression that the response to Ukraine's desperate situation was immediate and generous. They are mistaken.

So far, two months later, not a single cent was loaned to Ukraine. Not a dollar, not a Euro, not even a dinar.

Haven't those loans been attached with conditions rather than "here, have some bags of money"?

"The agreement, announced in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, will hinge on the country taking steps to let the value of its currency float downward, to cut corruption and red tape, and, crucially, to reduce huge state subsidies for the consumption of natural gas."

Ukraine is in a difficult situation. But reality is that, no, this was not a promise of free money.

Grahor:netcentric: Ukraine buys 1000 bags of potatoes, and 1000 pairs of socks, and is perplexed that some corruption means that 100 bags of socks and potatoes are stolen.

I think you underestimate the corruption in that region. Out of 1000 bags of potatoes 800 are stolen, and 100 are spoiled by the time they get where they are going.

By the way, I want to remind people: there was a promise by the US, EU and IMF that a quick loan will be given to Ukraine, which is truly in a desperate situation. The promise was made as early as Ferbuary 27, timeline was "in a week or two".

Every week since them a promise was repeated and reiterated. Every time it was "in a week or two".

I think people of the West are under the impression that the response to Ukraine's desperate situation was immediate and generous. They are mistaken.

So far, two months later, not a single cent was loaned to Ukraine. Not a dollar, not a Euro, not even a dinar.

I'm not sure I was fair in my response.

Perhaps the requirements by the IMF and EU were unresonable.

And you are probably right that a lot of people do think that Ukraine was given aid immediatly.

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Thing is that Ukraine screwed the IMF in 2008 and 2010. And obviously the EU when they had brokered a peacedeal. And well, I assume Russia once in a while, ie. the gas being cut of now and then.

I've googled as to whether Ukraine has actually taken any steps to adher to the terms for the loans? The corruption and "red-tape" demands doesn't seem very tangiable to me. But what about the gas, that's something specific that the government has either done or not?

U.S. Senators Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL) called for the immediate destruction of 15,000 tons of ammunition, 400,000 small arms and light weapons, and 1,000 man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS) or shoulder missile launchers that are often sought by terrorists.

So what if it is true? It's not like they made the Ukranians do it, if they did it at all.

spawn73:I've googled as to whether Ukraine has actually taken any steps to adher to the terms for the loans? The corruption and "red-tape" demands doesn't seem very tangiable to me. But what about the gas, that's something specific that the government has either done or not?

The prices of gas for all consumers are increased by 50% starting May 1, and the schedule to increase it much more in following months and years is published. Corruption and red-tape demands are indeed not particularly tangible.

However, there is another demand - free floating of hrivna, Ukraine's currency, is unreasonable. Hrivna floated downwards by 50% or so already, and the population is in panic. Generally, the lower hrivna is, the higher prices of gas for consumers have to be, because gas is denominated in $. Since wages and pensions are frozen, I think you understand what would happen when the price for gas would increase above monthly pensions, say.

Right now the population, both physical persons and businesses, are not allowed to buy any currency. Only chosen vital businesses are allowed to purchase $US from the central bank, in fixed amounts. This, of course, "stabilized" hrivna.

If hrivna would be allowed to freely float downward, in current situation, it would cause panic and complete devaluation of hrivna. Doom and gloom. It is, in my opinion, unreasonable to ask for that.

Any loans, even symbolic, say, $100 mil, would at least somewhat restore the faith in Ukraine's future and Ukraine's currency. Ukraine's currency is not completely valueless, it has an actual exporting economy, but the panic could very well make it so, and the consequences are horrifying.

Also, I understand the hesitance of the West to load money to Ukraine, but this is not what I'm (somewhat) angry about. I'm angry that the West did not state their conditions, hesitations and timeline beforehand. First they promise money right now, say a lot of noble and good words, give heartfelt promises, and then... Nothing?

Even the most pro-European Ukrainians start to wonder. What's happening? Do your words mean anything? Are you going to hit us with a knife in our backs? Have you sold us to Russia while speaking all the right words and promising the moon? Are those Russian "vatniks" right and you actually are a bunch of lying shiats?

I mean, they are still going to struggle against Russia, and to move towards Europe, and all that, but, but, you know. Deceive desperate, trusting, idealistic people enough and they are going to get bitter. To lose their idealism. If they need to drink their medicine, make it clear right from the start.

U.S. Senators Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL) called for the immediate destruction of 15,000 tons of ammunition, 400,000 small arms and light weapons, and 1,000 man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS) or shoulder missile launchers that are often sought by terrorists.

Hey jackass, check out Farker Grahor's comment above. You just got schooled in US politics by a Russian.