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Oral History Collection
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Special Collections
Musselman Library
Interview with
John Stavola
Interviewer: Steven T. Ferraro
Interview Date: October 8, 2006
World War II
Oral History Project
An Interview with John Stavola
Steven T. Ferraro
Professor Michael J. Birkner
Historical Method
November 2, 2006
1
John Stavola, Oral History
[Tape 1, Side 1]
Steven T. Ferraro: Today is October 8th, 2006. I am sitting here, in my living room, which is
located at 8 Saddler Court, Huntington Station, New York, with John Stavola and we are going
to conduct an interview. Today’s time is 1:36pm and we are going to start now.
Hi Uncle John. How are you?
John Stavola: Fine. Thank you. Fine, Steven.
Ferraro: Alright. So we are going to start our interview now. First, I will ask you about your
parents.
Stavola: My parents were Dominick Stavola and Anna Feminella. They were both born in a
small town in the province of Camagna Italy. My mother came here when she was about two
months old. My father about 17. They both married.
Ferraro: Let me just ask one question. They didn’t obviously know each other in Italy—
Stavola: Well the thing about that is that my Uncle had married my grandmother’s daughter, or
the sister of my mother. And then my father got to know my mother through the marriage of his
brother.
Ferraro: And they met each other in the United States?
Stavola: The met each other in the United States and my father and mother married in South
Brooklyn or Carol Gardens today, in June of 1900.
Ferraro: Wow.
Stavola: They lived for a while in Carol Gardens on Sacun Street and later on they moved to
Bridgeport, Connecticut. That was where my two sisters were born and another girl who died at
the age of six.
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Ferraro: What did your father do for a living?
Stavola: My father dealed with, [pause], what do you call it? Turning metal into something else.
Ferraro: Metalworker?
Stavola: When he lived in Bridgeport, and then I guess he lost in job. Then he moved back to
Brooklyn, to Long Island City. He dealed with all different paper products – paper in which they
sold and metal – anything they found, they sold it. My mother, naturally, was a home wife, and
she stayed home. And in Long Island City, my brother Joe born there, and three Johns. I was the
third John.
Ferraro: In the same family! Wow!
Stavola: My mother had two Johns. Both died in childbirth, a very young age. She was so
adamant and determined to have named her son John, I came a long and she named me John.
Ferraro: How many total siblings did you have?
Stavola: Twelve.
Ferraro: Wow! And you were the?
Stavola: I was number eight.
Ferraro: Number 8.
Stavola: Anyway, so she named me John. And surprisingly at birth, though I was the sickest of
the three Johns. My mother felt no more Johns after this.
Ferraro: When were you born?
Stavola: August the fifth, 1917.
Ferraro: Wow.
3
Stavola: So, I survived, naturally, and I was born on Hunters Point Avenue in Long Island City.
[I] was baptized in Saint – baptized in Long Island City also. I can’t remember the church. And
after that, we moved to Brooklyn, where my sister Mary was born.
Ferraro: Why did you move to Brooklyn?
Stavola: I [pause]
Ferraro: Do you remember?
Stavola: No. Anyways, we lived in a big house from what I have heard, actually. We moved
when I was very young. I don’t remember Long Island City at all. But anyway, my uncles both
lived in a big house in Long Island City. And I don’t know if they sold the house or what
happened, but they moved to Greg Avenue in Brooklyn. So we lived on Greg Avenue and my
uncle lived on Meeker Avenue which was very close.
Ferraro: How did you—
Stavola: My uncles, and my mother’s sister, in fact, two brothers married two sisters.
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: So we were very close to each other.
Ferraro: So a lot of your family lived close to you?
Stavola: Very Close. We always lived near each other, you know, because my father’s brother
was very close to his younger brother and the sister of my uncle, I should say the wife of my
uncle, died at the age of 38 when we were in Long Island City. She died having her fifteenth
child.
Ferraro: Oh my God.
Stavola: So she passed away.
Ferraro: So you had a lot of cousins?
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Stavola: She was 38 years old.
Ferraro: You had a lot of cousins then?
Stavola: Oh I had quite a few cousins. Quite a few cousins. We always played together and it
was great. And we moved to Greahme Avenue and well, we lived up on the top floor. That was
where my sister Mary was born (your grandmother). The thing I remember about Greahme
avenue, I was hanging out at a schoolyard, and my sister bought me a little bicycle. [It was a]
three-wheeler, and I would be so careful carrying it up the stairs. We had a very small yard and
we used to play with the other kids. One time we were running around the yard playing cowboys
and Indians when I tripped and split my head open.
Ferraro: Oh.
Stavola: I always remember my mother telling me, “Well, we got to bring him to the hospital.”
So I started crying, naturally. And before that, I fell and I don’t know what blood was gushing
out. I was full of blood, I tried to sneak up the stairs.
Ferraro: [laughs]
Stavola: I lived up on the top floor and I tried to walk really slowly. I didn’t want anybody to see
me.
Ferraro: [laughs]
Stavola: That’s how much sense I had. So my sister spotted me and screamed. So that’s how
they found out. They wanted to take me to the hospital and I said no. What they promised me
was some ice cream of some kind. That was why we went, at that time we went to the druggist to
get my head stitched. It was all right. So time went on and we moved from Greahme Avenue to
Bushwick Avenue.
Ferraro: So you moved around a lot.
5
Stavola: We moved to Bushwick Avenue.
Ferraro: When you moved, did your whole family, like your Aunts and your Uncles all move
together, most of the time?
Stavola: No, we moved to Bushwick Avenue and my uncle moved to. But my father had other
brothers. He had three other brothers. There were five in his family. His father fell. He fell off a
hill or something, and died in Italy. His wife, I don’t remember she died so many years ago. She
is buried out in St. Johns. I found that out through research that she was buried there. You see
when people are alive we should drill them on history, which we have never done. You know,
you always feel that time is time eternal and that nothing is ever going to happen, but I could
have asked my father different questions. I could have asked about his grandparents, what
happened to his grandfather. My mother’s father, he died so many years ago. From what I heard
that had no money and had many children. They came here around 1884. I don’t know how he
died. From what I heard they buried him on in an unmarked grave at public cross cemetery.
Some day I have to got there and try to—
Ferraro: Track him down
Stavola: Find out where. But I found out where my father’s mother [was buried]. I knew where
my mother’s mother is buried because she died. I remember as a child when she passed away in
1929. [She] was a very strong woman, died at the age of 85. She was remarkable.
Ferraro: For that time. Definitely.
Stavola: She was a very strong person. A person younger should have the heart she had. She was
a workaholic. I think she lived in farms on crossing johns or that’s all I heard. It is all hearsay. So
I found out where my other grandmother was buried. I went one time to put a stone on my
mother’s mother’s grave because there was nothing there. So I said that I wanted to put a stone
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and they said that I had no title to put anything on her grave. So I couldn’t do anything really.
And it was fact that I sent away to Jamestown New York, which is upstate going toward the
Ohio, Pennsylvania, below Buffalo, for the plaque. I put it on the grave, and they took it off.
Ferraro: Why did they take it off?
Stavola: I have no idea. I guess it was because I had no title to the grave. So, anyway. I had an
Uncle who one time promised to send me to college. He would take care of the financing, but he
dropped dead of a heart attack. His wife remarried and that was the end of that. I used to be very
close to my cousins because a lot of them was the same age as I, or maybe the difference of a
few moths or so.
Ferraro: What did you used to do with your cousins?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: What did you—
Stavola: Anyway we had games you know. Anyway moistly we organized a team when I was in
Brooklyn. We called ourselves the Bushwick Tigers.
Ferraro: How did you come up with that name?
Stavola: Because there was a team named the Tigers [Detroit]. You know, kids, we played on
the ball field. I tell you there were more rocks than dirt.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: So one day my brother was catching, my older brother. We had no masks. We had to
borrow the gloves from the other team. We played another team. We lent gloves to each other so
we could have a full complement of gloves to people on the field. So one day my day my brother
was catching and with no mask and someone tipped the ball and it broke his nose. And home we
went. And we had so many problems with that kid. And one day I was playing with my brother
7
on the street. We had a make believe football. He threw it, I was running for it, and don’t you
think a truck came along. He ran into me and I still remember. I lost conscious and I remember
waking up monetarily under the truck. I saw the bottom of the truck. I passed out again. The next
thing I remember my brother was picking me up. Which they shouldn’t have.
Ferraro: They shouldn’t have.
Stavola: They shouldn’t of. They did and someone beside me said, “You have to go the
Hospital.” I went. I was just badly bruised in my legs.
Ferraro: That was lucky.
Stavola: And in fact, those days weren’t like today, Steven. Now, the driver was on the wrong
side of the street. There was no thought whatsoever of suing as they do today.
Ferraro: Times are different.
Stavola: She just said, “Thank god he is alright,” and that was it. That settled that. And I was
fine.
Ferraro: What was your mother like? If you can describe her for me.
Stavola: Oh, she was a wonderful woman. Great woman. She died at the age of fifty-seven.
When we moved form Bushwick Avenue, my father found a place in Jamaica and we moved
there. We weren’t there long, about a year and she passed away. She was complaining of her
stomach and the doctor came over and said she had inflammation of the intestines. So he gave
her some medication but she never got better.
Ferraro: And how old were you?
Stavola: [Pause] I was—
Ferraro: Was it before or after you went into the war?
8
Stavola: Before. Anyway, so we finally called some other doctor who had to rush her to a
hospital bed but she was doing fine. I was doing work. At that time, I actually had a job. I was
saving my salary. I went to Brooklyn Tech at the outset. I stayed there for a year, but when my
uncle passed away, I had no financial means of going to college. So I said, “What am I going to
do? I have to get a job somewhere.” My brothers both worked in one place and they both lost
their jobs.
Ferraro: Where did they work?
Stavola: They worked at a factory. In a fiber mill or something like that, in Bridgeport. They
both lost their jobs, somehow. The mill closed and pretty dire straits my mother was in. She
never made much money. Of course my mother never worked.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: Then the others were married and the younger ones were younger than I. Sam was one
of the two that lost their job. It just boiled down to me. So I took a commercial course at Grover
Cleveland. I graduated there. Trying to find a job was difficult in those days.
Ferraro: Because of the Depression?
Stavola: Yeah. You know the times weren’t that great.
Ferraro: Do you remember when the Depressions first set in? You must have been twelve at the
time.
Stavola: Yeah it was somewhere.
Ferraro: It was in 1929.
Stavola: Anyway, I finally found a job. I had taken stenography and typing. My mother said,
“You know you can get an office job.” So I took that. It deviated so much from the industrial
course that I had taken in Brooklyn Tech. I liked it very much. In Cleveland, I took a commercial
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course. I took stenography and typing. Also when I graduated, I went to Eastern District High
School for speed.
Ferraro: For speed typing?
Stavola: No for more or less speed – I could take dictation.
Ferraro: Gotcha. Were these classes during high school?
Stavola: No, I took these classes at night. I mean, when I got this job, I still went to night school
for stenography and typing. Anyway, I got this job in Brooklyn. It was the Eureka Patching
Company. Now they made all patching for boats with asbestosis and graphite. It was a mixture.
They made these patches to go on the boats. Sometimes I would go and deliver a package to a
terminal but all the boats were in dry dock. You should have seen the size of these boats on the
dry dock. Tremendous. Other times I worked in the office.
Ferraro: Which did you like better?
Stavola: This was better. Sometimes they had me writing contracts at that time. They required
about six or seven copies of everything. Anyway, he was fine. I had Mr. Marks, Abel Marks, a
wonderful guy. I worked with him for so many years, until I was called into the army.
Ferraro: So, let’s go back a minute. So when you worked, were you supporting most of your
family at the time?
Stavola: Well, I was helping a hell of a lot. My father did not make too much. So whenever I
made something, it helped greatly. Then I got a couple of raises and that helped a lot. My mother
was so happy. And then I looked in the paper one day and I read about a man selling pocket
books and the business was thriving. So I told my sisters Francis and Mary, “Why don’t you
try?” They got the job. My mother was happy as hell. I mean then the depressions seemed to end.
We were in the lapse of luxury.
10
Ferraro: When was that?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: When was this?
Stavola: This was back when we were on Bushwick Avenue. My father lived on Bushwick
Avenue for seventeen years. I was happy to get away from there.
Ferraro: Why were you happy to get away from there?
Stavola: Sometimes, I have always felt, like today, you need a change of pace. Everybody was
getting old there. People were going on their ways. Some friends I had moved. It was not the
same. Anyway, so we moved to Jamaica. And that was where my mother passed away. And that
was where I was inducted into he army.
Ferraro: So when did you first hear about all the problems in Europe? Or how much did you
know about them before?
Stavola: Oh actually, I knew a lot. Sam was home at that time. George got married. The others
were married except Mary, Francis and Tony and Sam. So one day were listening to the radio at
that time and they said that they bombed Pearl Harbor. So actually I was called into the army in
February of 1942. But they had already called me six months before that. My mother passed
away and I was so distraught, with my mother passing away, because I really cared for my
mother. Anyway, so I went to the examiner and my blood pressure was very high. So six moths
later called me back. They asked me to sit down a while and they told me my blood pressure was
fine. So they inducted me from Jamaica.
Ferraro: Now, you knew a lot about what was going on in the war?
Stavola: Oh yeah. I knew a lot. I read the paper.
Ferraro: So were you surprised to be called in or was it expected?
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Stavola: No, I expected it. My cousins had been called in. My cousin was called to the South
Pacific. He was an engineer on all these islands. Luckily he came back unscathed. He came
home and worked in his truck. I called one day and he dropped dead. My other cousin Dominick,
who just horsed around each other. At that time, he went around Africa to the Middle East. They
could not go through the Mediterranean because of the Japanese. He went around Africa and into
the Middle East. He was in Baghdad and all that. There he married a girl from Baghdad. A
Jewish iraqis. They both came to the states later on. They had two kids. One became a big doctor
in Virginia; the other one was very smart. Two smart kids they had.
Ferraro: What did your father do for money, when you and your brothers left for the army? Was
he worried?
Stavola: Well, I guess he didn’t worry. Mary and Francis had been working.
Ferraro: Ok.
Stavola: At that time they were both working. I went to this office in Jamaica and they put me in
charge of all the recruits. So we get on a train, you know.
Ferraro: How did you get put in charge of the recruits?
Stavola: I don’t know. I don’t know why, but I was put in charge.
Ferraro: They must have liked you.
Stavola: Anyway, they put me in charge of all these people being inducted into the army. We
went to Whitehall Street and from there we were shipped to Fort Dix.
Ferraro: Where is Fort Dix?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: Where is Fort Dix?
Stavola: Fort Dix is in New Jersey. Near Wrightstown. And we all went there.
12
Ferraro: Did you know where you would eventually be sent to?
Stavola: No. I had no idea whatsoever. I spent some time at Fort Dix and the next day they sent
me to Fort Knox, Kentucky, part of the Army force tank division. And then we spent a few
months down there.
Ferraro: So what was it like in Kentucky? Were you still with those recruits? What were they
teaching you?
Stavola: Well down there, they taught us all different sub-tactics. They put us through different
courses where we would crawl through on our stomachs. There were machine guns firing over
your head. You wouldn’t put your head up. And then they had little miniature things that weren’t
real explosives but sounded like real explosives. You see at that time that was the armored force
infantry.
Ferraro: What were the conditions like living there?
Stavola: They weren’t so bad. They weren’t too bad. At that time, we used to go on the Half
Track. And they used to bring us all around. Then we had different forms of target practice. It
went on and they finally shipped me up to Watertown, New York.
Ferraro: They moved you around a lot during training.
Stavola: Oh, all the time. In fact, they moved us up to Watertown, which was the nucleus of the
fourth army division. That’s where they were organized. That’s where the Fourth Army division
became a division, up there.
Ferraro: When they moved you around, did you stay with the same people?
Stavola: No, we sort of switched. In Fort Knox, some went to one army division, another went
to another. I stayed in the Fourth Army, New York all winter and learned the winter maneuvers.
So they finally said, “Well, we are going down to Tennessee. We are maneuvering down in
13
Tennessee.” So I said, “Thank God. At least we are going down where it is warmer.” So they
shipped us down to Camp Forrest, Tennessee and it was snowing.
Ferraro: Snowing in Tennessee! What time of the year was it?
Stavola: This was in the winter time.
Ferraro: You still figured it would be—
Stavola: It would be warmer. Anyways they shipped us down to Tennessee to learn our
maneuvers there. At that time, my brother Sam came down to see me. He went down to
Nashville. I went through the so-called enemy lines. I got myself a jeep. I drove to Nashville to
meet Sam. He wanted to see me. That was it.
Ferraro: And what was he up to at that point?
Stavola: Nothing actually. He wasn’t in the army at that time.
Ferraro: How was he not in it? Was he not drafted?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: Why was he not in it?
Stavola: He was older than I. I do not know why he was. Then just did not call him, yet.
Anyway, So I met him in Nashville and I went back to the army. I cross enemy line. And I went
back to company. We maneuvered through Tennessee from one end to the other. From
Tennessee, at that time they were fighting in Africa. So they brought us to the Mojave desert in
California.
Ferraro: Were they teaching you the same stuff in all the camps or were you learning different
things in all the camps?
Stavola: Different things. Then it was desert training.
Ferraro: Yeah
14
Stavola: Anyway, so naturally coming from New York, what the hell did I know about deserts.
Ferraro: Did you ever travel when you were in New York?
Stavola: When I was—
Ferraro: Before you were in the army, did you ever travel at all?
Stavola: Well, thing I traveled, as soon as I got myself a job, I saved whatever I got scrip
together, because I gave most of the money to my mother to help support the family. And I saved
some money and I said, “Where should I go on a trip?” So I decided to go up to Montreal. And I
had to look to find the cheapest. So I took a bus. Now this bus went straight to Montreal. It went
in such a roundabout way that it took 17 hours to get to Montreal.
Ferraro: Oh my gosh.
Stavola: We went all through Vermont. That’s what I wanted. I wanted to see, for the least
amount of money that I had. Anyway, I went all through. Whenever the bus stopped to eat, it
looked a little too high class for me, I looked around for a cheap place to eat because I didn’t
have that much money. So I survived.
Ferraro: What was your favorite place you saw?
Stavola: I don’t know. Steven, it was so long ago, I really don’t remember the places. Anyplace
I found that seemed more reasonable with cost, I liked. Anyway I went to Montreal and stayed in
a cheap motel. I stayed there for about three days and then worked my way back. That was my
entourage.
Ferraro: Were you able to see a lot of the sites in Montreal?
Stavola: Yeah, I walked.
Ferraro: Walked all over.
Stavola: I walked all over. But that’s all I had. I had nobody.
15
Ferraro: When did you go to see Montreal?
Stavola: It was back, when I was about nineteen years old.
Ferraro: And what made you pick Montreal?
Stavola: I do not know. You know I hear a lot of people smuggling liquor into the states from
Montreal and I had no idea of smuggling liquor. But I heard so much about Montreal from
smugglers that I went to Montreal. It was my chance of getting out of the country. So it was
sweet. At that time, there were no visas or anything involved. No security or whatnot. And I had
a nice time. That was my first trip outside that United States. Anyway, I came back and that was
it. As far as the army was concerned, we were out in the desert of California. I was a city slicker.
That’s why I sprawled out on ground one time on the bed roll and I just slept there. And don’t
you think during the night something went down my leg and I never knew what it was. They told
you to never to leave your bed roll on the ground. Roll it up. Because you never know, snakes
might get in. I never knew what went down my leg. We used to have a water truck because there
was no water there. And we used to fill our helmets, that was how we got our water. So I figured,
we live in a tent. I thought I would speed up my getting up in the morning by filling my helmet
with water, this was I could wash my face. So I put the helmet, filled it up with water, got up, we
slept on cots. I got up in the morning, put my hand in the water and there was one of these desert
rats.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: It was a Kangaroo rat.
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: It had drowned in it! I just picked it up; I dropped it and threw it out.
Ferraro: Did you ever do the hat and the water thing again?
16
Stavola: No I never did. He drowned in it. But that time the fourth army division which was
when I was in Kentucky was how I got in the fourth army division. Because they came along and
lined up everybody and said, “First army division, fourth army division, first, fourth.” So a lot of
them went to the first and some went to the forth. I said that was good.
Ferraro: Which did you want?
Stavola: Well, the first army division was shellacked; they got a beating in The Kassarine Pass
in Africa. So I was thankful that I went to the fourth. Later on, they needed somebody to work at
court-martials, because you know, you always get people to finagle and deal to get out of the
army. So they had different cases, also the soldiers got in trouble, maybe with civilians. So they
assigned me as a Court Stenographer.
Ferraro: Where you still in California at this point, with the fourth?
Stavola: Yeah, and I became a court stenographer.
Ferraro: How was that job?
Stavola: It was hectic. It was hectic. Oh, I never got to get anywhere. Sometimes they would
take a little trip but I had to type about six pages for every trial that they had.
Ferraro: Did your training from your old job at home help you with this? Is that why you got
the job?
Stavola: Well I had learned from my experience working as a stenographer earlier in time.
That’s why they picked me. Anyway, I would be up late at night typing away and everything had
to be perfect. And then they you get these civilians in, they would ramble off on certain things,
you wouldn’t here them and then you would have to stop them, because everything had to be
taken down because all the army sentences were very severe. Very severe. I mean a guy would
just do something [Pauses]
17
Ferraro: What were some of the stranger cases you have seen?
Stavola: A rape case. A guy stealing. You know it got overwhelming for me. I complained a
little. So what happened was were in California and they finally found somebody to replace me.
Ferraro: Was that because you were complaining?
Stavola: I complained a little. You know it was occupying my whole life. Everybody had free
time. I never had free time because we had an abundance of cases. I had to get them out to
Washington, all over the place. So they finally found somebody and they transferred me to tank
outfit.
Ferraro: So when you heard about this what was your—
Stavola: I was relieved. I didn’t give a darn after a while. You know because just too much
work. But then I figured the heck with the tanks after a while. So then I was in the tank outfit.
Ferraro: So was this in the same location or did you have to move?
Stavola: Same division.
Ferraro: Same division.
Stavola: Yeah but it was different. But later on I was transferred from there. You see an armed
division is broken into two parts. One side they got headquarters which stay in the rear, you got
two combat commands. You had combat command A and combat command B. They comprised
a path after battle forces. One take one side. I was with command B. I was in a Half Track. First,
I was in a tank. And then they needed somebody and put me in the Half Track. When we got to
Europe anyway, I became a gunner, I mounted the 50 caliber machine guns. Because I had a lot
of experience. When I was a Fort Knox, I fired all these guns. Tank guns, simulated. They had to
put them on a platform and they put them up and down. And I fired every conceivable weapons,
18
bazookas, you name it, I fired. Anyway, so they put me into a tank and I was a gunman and then
they put me in a Hamtramck.
Ferraro: Did you like this job better or worse?
Stavola: What’s that?
Ferraro: Your new job in the tank, was it better or worse than being a stenographer?
Stavola: No it had nothing to do with stenography. Stenography was out. Nothing with
stenography any more. It’s gone. Now it was a different field entirely.
Ferraro: Which did you like better though?
Stavola: It was too overwhelming. Because you had to be very exact. Here are these guys who
depended on you to put down what was right. So anyway, I finally got into a halftrack. And then
a halftrack got overseas. They transferred me when I got overseas because of the first lieutenant
in charge of the halftrack.
Ferraro: So you are overseas in Europe?
Stavola: I will get back to the desert. They shipped us from the desert to Texas. To Bronwyn,
Texas and we went to learn maneuvers in Texas. There they thought we were getting a little too
soft, so they put us through hardening exercises. They had gas mask drills. You put your gas
mask on and run around and guys would be collapsing. In fact, I had the gas mask on and started
blacking out I remember. Anyway, one night until daytime they had us walk in the daytime thirty
miles.
Ferraro: Oh god!
Stavola: Just to try to toughen us up.
Ferraro: Thirty miles at nighttime?
19
Stavola: Yeah, but in the meantime, back before that I got married to my wife, she came down
to Texas to see me.
Ferraro: So, when did you get married?
Stavola: 1943.
Ferraro: Now how did you meet your wife?
Stavola: My cousin worked with her and said, “I know some nice fellow for you.” So I went up
to the Bronx one time and met her.
Ferraro: Did you meet her before you went in the army?
Stavola: No, while I was in the army.
Ferraro: While you were in the army. So were you able to go back home, while in the army?
Stavola: Yeah. In fact I went down to Tennessee to learn maneuvers before we went to
California they gave people free time. I came home from Tennessee. I went to Chattanooga, I
took the train though. So when I got home, naturally, I got late, and the train got me there late. I
went to LaGuardia airport at that time. I hopped on the first plane that arrived and it was an old
one pilot jet. It looked like they patched it up as they did in the war. And so I flew back. We flew
over the mountains in Virginia. And after that, that bounce. Ohh! We finally landed in Nashville.
Now I landed in Nashville and I said, “Now I am 90 miles away from my camp. And this is cold
weather.” I still had my summer clothes on. So finally, someone arrived in a jeep and I froze.
Finally, I got back to the camp. Also, when I was in Texas, my brother was there. I got off in
California. When I was home, I took the train home and going back, I took the train. And when I
got to Chicago I was a little late, I was always late.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
20
Stavola: I got to Chicago and I was late. I said, “Now what?” The train, by the time it come, it
was very late. So somebody said, “You know there is a mail train. You have to go to Kansas City
to pick it up. And that would get you out to the desert much faster.” So I figured, “Ok.” So I
hopped on the train, in Chicago, and went to Kansas City, I hopped on the mail train, and what
do you think. It let’s me off in Clovers, New Mexico. So there, I am the only one to get off the
mail train, because I was the only passenger. And the only person on the platform was a big
heavy set Indian women. And don’t you think I had to wait until the train that came from
Chicago came.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: I should have taken it from Chicago. I didn’t make any time at all.
Ferraro: But you got a good story out of it.
Stavola: I got a good story out of it. So I finally got out to the where I had to go.
Ferraro: Did you write home a lot in the army? Were you able to communicate?
Stavola: Once in a while. There wasn’t a lot to write about, what was I going to say. Anyway,
when I was in Texas, my brother Sam again. You know he was in the army, so was Tony. Tony
was in Randolph Field Texas.
Ferraro: Tony was your brother.
Stavola: Yes. Uncle Tony. He was stationed with the Air Force. Sam was in the infantry and was
stationed in Camp swift. I hadn’t seen Sam in a long time. My wife never met him so I arranged
that we would meet in Austin Texas, right near the University of Texas. So my wife came down
to Texas, I don’t know how she did it. She had so many phobias but she managed to get down on
the train. And she came down to Bronwyn, Texas. And she was shocked because down there,
there was all bugs on the windows. You know, coming from the Bronx. Anyway, she found a
21
place down there to say. So we went to Bronwyn, Texas. From Bronwyn, to Austin. I am waiting
there and who comes up the street, but my bother Sam. I hadn’t seen him in a couple of years.
[End of Tape 1 Side 1]
[Start of Tape 1 Start 2]
Stavola: We went back to Camp Swift, which was further south in Texas then I was. My wife
left. I went home and came back and the division left. We were sent overseas. And we all
boarded trains in the division. And went up from Texas straight up to Iowa. And then across.
Ferraro: Did you know where you were going overseas yet?
Stavola: Somehow, I knew briefly. I got to know certain people. Anyway so we went up to Iowa
and over up to Massachusetts at Camp Mile Sandish. And we left Camp Mile Sandish. In fact, I
was out one day and I was in Jamaica plains and I come from Jamaica. So I called them over one
day and told them I was going overseas. They weren’t supposed to say. It was in December—
Ferraro: December of 1943?
Stavola: ‘43.
Ferraro: ‘43.
Stavola: We left to go overseas. The thing was that they were so afraid of the German
submarines that we went straight down to Virginia. See, we had a number of destroyers, the
battleship Texas. It as one of the biggest convoys to go overseas. We went straight out the coast
of the United States and over off the Azores of Spain, up and around into the Irish Sea, and I
landed in Swansea Wales.
22
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: After 14 days.
Ferraro: 14 days! How were the condition of the boat getting there?
Stavola: Terrible.
Ferraro: Terrible.
Stavola: Terrible. The boat was an old Caribbean, SS Santa Paula. But they used it in the
Caribbean. And that boat just rocked. The fact was that while we were on the boat, I knew the
captain. I got to know the captain, that’s how I knew the route we were taking. Anyway, so while
we were on the boat he put me in charge of all the police. I will tell you we hit a storm one night
and the garbage cans were flying all over the place, water was coming down all over. What a
mess. So after a while I said, “the hell with this.” I said I need some air and you can see the boat
going down into a hole.
Ferraro: Oh no!
Stavola: But then it came up. The waves were going so high that they went over the boat! In
fact, I heard a couple of people, the wave came up and washed them overboard. But the fact is if
you washed overboard, that was it.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: They couldn’t stop the convoy just to look for you because they feared the German
submarines. But it was a long journey. Then when I was there, they [asked] me if I could help at
some paper that they wanted to put out. Something to amuse the troops while we were going
there, so we published a little paper.
Ferraro: Was it more news back from America or was it comedy?
Stavola: Actually, news from America partially, if anything happened on the boat.
23
Ferraro: This was in Wales that you did this?
Stavola: Yeah. So we landed on Swansea Wales. So they put us on trains. They had all the
curtains down on the train. Completely in the darkness. We came to this small town in England.
It was called the Devizes. It was right near Bristol England. It was dark, no lights or nothing. To
find your way around. They put us into barracks. In fact, you had to sleep on cats, which were
just iron slats. The mattress was straw or hay, whatever they had. The only thing in there which
was gigantic was fire hoses. It didn’t use up too much room. And that was where we stayed for a
while.
Ferraro: So what were you doing while you were in England? Were you still training?
Stavola: We were training. Of course than we would go onto the English Moors and we trained
there. At that time they started bombing London and you could see the lights going off in the
distance. The lights tried to get the planes. You know they were firing. In fact when we were on
the Moors, some German planes were on fire. And it came down not far from where we were. So
we trained on the Moors and many days they had big retreat. They had us try to get through some
of these English towns and they ripped the side of the house off.
Ferraro: Oh.
Stavola: Because the roads are so [narrow] anyway. While in England we worked on our
maneuvers. One time we were in England and they had a big plans for using tanks and infantry.
They called it leap frogging, because a tank would go, then an infantry. They would jump in.
Anyway, so we were up in England and who comes but General [George] Patton. With a
squeaky voice. It was surprising.
Ferraro: Did he speak to your—
24
Stavola: No, they had a few generals there. See we had a big paper machet field where they
practiced. They were practicing all the leap froggining. I wasn’t there at that time. They had all
these big offices. So we helped make a little paper machet field to use. So that was the only time
I saw Patton in the whole war. Then one time they sent us down to the coast resort in England,
Torquay. I never saw those English at that shore. Anyway, they sent us down to Torquay just to
rattle up the Germans, to think that we had all or radios going. Just to think that we had plans. So
they brought us down to Torquay. The only thing we did down there was we had a plane with a
sleeve on the end and we were practicing trying to hit that sleeve. And while were in mazes, they
were bombing London at that time.
Ferraro: Where you worried that they were bombing so close to you? That was the closest you
have been to combat.
Stavola: No, they weren’t close. Bristol where we were was closer. Of course there was nothing
to bomb anyway. Anyway, I decided, “Boy, I would like to go to London.” So I went by myself
because no one would want to go with me, because they are bombing London. So I figured, “the
hell with it.”
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: It might be my only chance to see London. So I went to London and the first day I get
there, they bombed it. They bombed this other station. I landed at Victoria station and I think the
other was Paddington. I landed on Paddington and they bombed Victoria Station. So they had an
air raid. So you went to London at that time and they had all these squares, sandbags or anti-aircrafts.
So the first day I get there, it was late at night and I didn’t know what to do because
they were bombing. First thing I saw was a black curtain. So, “let me see what was behind it.”
25
There was a stairway. So I went down the stairs and there was a pub. I said, “Boy did I come to
the right place.”
Ferraro: There are always pubs in London.
Stavola: [Laughs] It was downstairs and had a black curtain and everything. You see when I was
in the visors, they would have these big plywood boards. Every night when it got dark, we would
put these boards over the windows. So there was no light. It was rough walking around a while
and we got used to the dark. We would walk into the walls. Anyways when I went to London, I
walked all over London. They had the old Scotland Yard; I was looking for [10] Downing Street.
I couldn’t find it. It’s just a little alley. I went back to the camp. Then they finally shipped us to
the Southampton division. That was about two weeks after the invasion of Normandy beach. We
left Southampton to Omaha. That’s when I landed on Omaha beach. And I was shocked because
the battle line hadn’t gone that far.
Ferraro: They didn’t move it far yet?
Stavola: No. Always so we stayed there a day or so and the Germans bombed us. They bombed
the whole line. See when we went across we did in an LCD. It had a big balloon on top. That’s
because if the Germans tried [to bomb] they couldn’t get to low because we would use our
machine guns. When we landed on Omaha beach [Pause].
Ferraro: So this was your first experience in any type of combat when they started bombing
you?
Stavola: Well, the bombing and then they found were we broke out of the Half Track. After a
while the Germans became so disoriented, I was on a small company and we were on a road.
And the second time the sergeant of the guard posted me in the rocks under a wooden bridge.
The Germans became disoriented because their division got split apart. At night, I was there with
26
a couple of guys. We hear noise. The Germans are coming. They are rattling with their tanks.
They come right over our heads. They are going over to the town of Mount Rogers on a hill.
That is where headquarters are. So we called for air support. And we can see the planes
straighten them up. See that’s the purpose of armored division. We do not stay so long in a
certain place.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: You just break up communication. So that’s what they did they broke it up. We called
for air support. So believe it or not, years later when I delivered mail, I used to have a druggist
on our route in Bridgeport. So were talking one day and he tells me that his brother was killed in
the army during combat. He told me that his brother was killed because when we left there the
Germans, see we were first out of Mount Rogers, but the reason we left that area was that they
went back. His brother was killed when they tried to retake Mount Rogers.
Ferraro: It’s a good thing you moved around a lot.
Stavola: Well, we had to. From there when they broke through he lines, because sometimes with
the Germans you tired to build a foxhole and the Germans just buried there dead right there and
if we dug too far down [we’d hit bodies]. Anyway, so they think they we were headed for France
-- Normandy Omaha Beach and Brittany. We were headed for Brittany. One time we were about
16 miles or more ahead of everything else.
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: And they used to drop supplies by plane. So my company pulls into a field. See, what
they were trying to do was contain support of Lorean, which was a submarine base for the
Germans. We were on out way near Lorean and we pulled into a field and we were their not
more than a couple of hours and the Germans let us have it. They zeroed in on us. Boy, if you
27
ever saw movies where the house and trees go on fire, where the shells were coming closer. It
scared the hell out of us. So we got out of there. You would be surprised, some of these guys
froze. I pushed them. You can’t imagine. They froze. I know a couple people in our company
and a couple others were killed. I know that my great friend La Moyne, was he, I think he got
frightened and he moved from one place to another. He came from upstate. I always wanted to
go up and tell his family but I didn’t have the heart. When we were all in Texas we would hang
out together. We had good times. We used to go to Dallas and Fort Worth and had a good time.
Ferraro: So your friends from Texas you were able to stay with?
Stavola: Yeah, we stayed.
Ferraro: Were you able to stay in contact after the war?
Stavola: Yeah some of them. The others they lived out west.
Ferraro: Were a lot of them originally from New York?
Stavola: Originally from the East. I knew a guy named Aish that was from the Amish country.
Mike Saras lived in Tennessee. Him I knew very well. I knew some others also. There was one
in Hackensack I knew a captain who knew my cousin. I kept in touch after the war. I have a
picture home of six of us all friends near the barracks, a couple died in the war. I think there is
just one or two of us left. Myself and some guy, in Merrick, I keep in touch with him but I think
mentally he is losing it. I meant to go up and see him. Anyway those are the people. Zahra, I
used to go to all these conventions. We went to Houston together to Savannah.
Ferraro: Conventions for World War Two Veterans?
Stavola: This was after the war.
Ferraro: Yeah. This was for the Vets?
28
Stavola: Edison, New Jersey. Kalamazoo, Michigan (Where Jeter is from). We went all over. I
went all over with him. He just passed away two years ago. Now I stop going because I have no
one to go with. We went to Houston and the division part we went to Johnson Space Center. You
know they really treat us regally there. And in fact one of the scientists there came to where we
were located in Houston and made a beautiful speech and also we were invited to a Jewish
synagogue and a big meeting hall. Because my division all through Germany had freed two
concentration camps. See combat command freed Audrow and I went through Bookenball but
see we never stopped. We went right through. I saw the camp themselves and some of the people
came out to wave at me. But then we went through it. See the infantry came through after. So
they came in but the Germans had retreated.
Ferraro: So these concentration camps were in Germany?
Stavola: Yeah.
Ferraro: When you went there, did you know anything about the Holocaust? Did they tell you
anything?
Stavola: Well, we heard.
Ferraro: So you heard rumors.
Stavola: One time we were in [Pause]
Ferraro: We will stay back in France now and get this later.
Stavola: Yeah.
Ferraro: So you are in France.
Stavola: So anyway, we went through. So they shelled the hell out of us. Then they finally got
an infantry out and they stationed them near us near Looe. Because they felt it would take too
much to attack the submarine base. It would cost too many casualties. They figured to just
29
contain it by having troops. But sometime they fire these guns, Steven, which sound like railroad
trains. They had these big guns. So I would come over and they sound like railroad tracks. They
brought this infantry and we left. Then we went south a couple hundred miles, because that time
the American troops tried to encircle the German troops around Paris, they call that Falaise gap
or something. In the meantime, they put me in charge of the Half Track. Because they had a first
lieutenant, from California, but he was killed. Anyway, so they put me in charge.
Ferraro: What was your rank at this point?
Stavola: Staff Sergeant. So they put me in charge. They put me up there with the machine guns.
I used to have to be included with the officers because I was in charge. As far as a router
protector. You had to keep in line because a couple of tanks shot up. They called an ordinance.
Ordinance 126. And we took the wrong road. You see, so you deviate from the main road that
we were in and now you are by yourself. See but if you stay in line with all the other tanks, no
one will want to attack or sack you. But they took the wrong road and were shot up. That’s why
it was so important to watch yourself. One time, you know from some of the roads weren’t paved
and were dusty. So much dirt got into my eyes because I had no glasses. That’s why we rested a
while and boy I was so tired. I couldn’t be able to sleep with all that dirt in my eyes.
Ferraro: When you traveled around France, how did you sleep? How did you take care of
yourself? Did you stay in the tanks or in tents?
Stavola: I left the tanks, and I was in the Hamtramck. You see I was in charge of a couple of
radio operators, two Polish guys. They would go skiing. They were my radio operators. Then I
had the driver, George Benton, he was what we all learned. Anyways he was the driver. And I
had to mount the machine gun and make sure it was revolving. It was fifty calibers and it swung
around. Because sometimes when we were in certain places, you know you had to watch. I
30
would always tell the Half Track if there was a wall or something to hide behind, because you
know these other guys, they would fire if a plane came down the, the plane was low and they
would be firing low, and that thing could hit. It was surprising how many accidents. One time in
the field, I heard a shot go off. See they used to attach different outfits to our division, like a tank
destroyer outfit.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: I heard something go off. I rushed over there. Somebody fooled around with a German
gun and a bazooka and shot himself in the head. We went in there and there was blood all over.
We all went back into the Half Tracks. He had a gun; he thought it was on safety, it wasn’t.
Ferraro: So it was dangerous there?
Stavola: Different things. But you know people were killed accidentally.
Ferraro: Was there a lot of that?
Stavola: It must have been a lot through the army. There was a lot killed in action. Also, I used
to have a guy in the company, he used to be on attack, Joe Hoffman. Joe was a big big strong guy
and he was on the field talking to a guy who was both holding a gun, so they held the gun. So
they. He used to play for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Ferraro: The Philadelphia Eagles!
Stavola: Anyway, there were accidents, always accidents. One time in France, the Germans had
overrun the French and took their champagne. Then we overran them then and stole the
champagne. So we took it and tried to put it all in the Half Tracks. And you know it was so
warm, I drank so much of it that I started to feel sick.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
31
Stavola: It was dry and it was hot. Funny moment. Also when you were going through France
they used to have coverings with different colors. Any plane overhead would see that they were
friendly.
Ferraro: And the planes would understand what color meant what?
Stavola: Yep. One time this French. See the French have this FFI, which in French means the
French Forces of the interior. They used to be trying to help out. So they got a lot of German
vehicles to give to us and don’t you know they shot the vehicles. They killed so many. They ere
stupid. Because every time we had to put different color things on and one day it was yellow and
one day it was red. It was a good thing.
Ferraro: Definitely
Stavola: Sometimes the Germans had these planes with the Suka die model. One time I was
shooting and it was so slow, I couldn’t hit it. No one could it.
Ferraro: [Laughs] They were too slow.
Stavola: The Germans had a lot of Jet planes too. It was something.
Ferraro: What was living in France like at that time?
Stavola: We never lived in anything but the fields and that was where we slept. In fact we went
from Omaha beach to Brittany to south to Ovifgion to Paris to the eastern part of France, the
Dead sea. Around Alsace Lorain and at that time the Germans broke through into Belgium. That
was the Battle of the Bulge. Somehow, I was sick as a dog.
Ferraro: What was the medicine like, when you were there? Were the nurses and doctors?
Stavola: Not really. What they did was get an ambulance and get me back to a field hospital.
Miles and miles back. So all I did was lay on the ground and no one bothered me. By that time
they were busy with everything else.
32
Ferraro: What was the hospital like? Were there a lot of people in it?
Stavola: Big tent, of course all wounded guys came in. Anyway, so what I did, nobody was
bothering me so I picked myself up and I worked my way back to my company.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: I got back to my company and guys did not know what to do. It was getting cold and
freezing, stoves. Then they got orders to go up to Belgium because the Germans broke through.
At that time, Belgium was a training ground for all troops. The Germans broke through and have
a lot of American uniforms and spoke English. So they infiltrated all these lines. We got up there
and you could see all these things destroyed. We were up to into the Ardennes and it was cold.
God it was cold.
Ferraro: This was once again back to winter?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: This was once again back to winter?
Stavola: It was cold. It was the fourteen below zero. And I was cold.
Ferraro: What did they give you to wear in the army?
Stavola: We used to have uniforms, warm clothing, but I was so sick I needed a couple of
blankets. I was on the Half Track shivering. It was all frozen. But anyway, when we got up there
they already started mining trees. So we finally made it to Bastogne, that was where the 101st
one. As soon as we got to the Bastogne, the Germans were still firing on the Bastogne. One shell
landed right near us and the Half Track shacked. The damn shrapnel flies over my head and
bounced on the wall.
Ferraro: Close call.
33
Stavola: Then I look at the field and I don’t believe what I see, Steve, some guy was hit in the
face. And we just [pause] kept down and moved. The driver of the Half Track he moved. We had
the headquarters, near Bastogne. But they had finally called broken through and freed them.
Then we came down and finally settled into his part of Germany. Oh, before that anyway we
came down and headed for eastern Germany. We got as far as a town deep into Germany and we
kept hitting obstacles because the Germans would bomb the overpass. We could not pass. So
anyway, we got this town going though Saxon and there was one town in Saxon where the
finally got him to surrender. So I went down to headquarters in German battle zone. I ripped it
off and I still have it home.
Ferraro: Wow!
Stavola: The pennant with the tassels and Swastika on it. I have it at home.
Ferraro: At this what did they tell you about the war? Were they telling you that you were
winning the war?
Stavola: Well, I figured we were winning the war because we were advancing. I knew we went
over the Rhine at that time and the Germans were trying to keep us form going over the Rhine.
So they had all these bridges and as they went over the Rhine they would shell them. And they
kept going to Saxong and to eastern part of Germany but they stopped because the Russians.
Ferraro: They were coming from the other way.
Stavola: They had to take that angle. After they pulled us back, we went into Checalaslovokia.
We went all the way back and around and were right outside of Prague when they stopped us
again because the Russians were right outside of Prague. Otherwise we wouldn’t have stopped.
All the people seemed to like us, they were so happy. You see, they were so fearful of the
Russians coming in, when they saw us they were glad.
34
Ferraro: What was Checkelslovokia like?
Stavola: Very urban. Anyway, I got a jeep and I went into Prague, this guy and I. There were a
lot of Russians in Prague. So I cam back and the Russians finally came into camp looking for
two white Russian generals that fought with Germany against Russia. What I read in the army
paper later on is that they finally caught up with them, hung them both, on meat hooks. So they
hung them on meet hooks. They were pretty brutal. That’s why people didn’t like them. And so
finally in Checlvokia because war ended and they pulled us back and went to Germany in
Munich, in Longwood.
Ferraro: What were everyone’s reaction when the war ended?
Stavola: Oh actually, everyone was glad. It was great.
Ferraro: Were you surprised that it ended then?
Stavola: Yes, we weren’t aware what was going on. We heard before, that the war in Japan was
over. And another thing my brother Sam had been with the infantry 97 and they came to Europe
at the tail end of the war. Then when the war ended, we had a big battle of the location of all our
troops and I saw that my brother’s division was in bad bird Germany. So if figured, I got a jeep, I
went up to bad bird, and I noticed they were moving out. I had just missed my brother. They had
moved out. So I went back to the company. So later on in the fourth army, division was going to
stay in Europe. So they transferred me to the ninth army division, which was going home. And I
went up to small town artrstus, near, it was pretty good. See where I at that time they had not
fraternized with anyone in Germany.
Ferraro: I just want to go back to one thing we talked about before and didn’t finish. You said
there were concentration camps when you went through?
Stavola: Yeah.
35
Ferraro: When you went through them did you know everything that was going on? Did you—
Stavola: I heard, but I didn’t know what was going on. Because we went right through the heart
of the camp and you kept right going. That was not our purpose, our purpose was not that. So
they called some infantry division and had them take over. See, actually, we were supposed to go
through wake up. You go into some of these towns and take all the guns. You go into a town and
there are people on the sidewalk-saying hello. But during the end of the war, the Germans were
running out of manpower. Sometimes you would see a German walking with his shoulders hurt,
you would feel sorry for him.
Ferraro: After the war, when you found out, were you surprised to find out how bad conditions
were at the concentration camps?
Stavola: Yes, that is true. That was why when we went to Houston that time they gave us a meal
and everything, because we had freed two concentration camps. We had freed Bookenbad. Later
on some other people said they went through it but they were lying. I went through it myself so I
would know. Anyway, I know we went over to openheiom, we went to Alsace Loraine. To
eastern part of Germany. I was in Alsace. They had German names in hat part of France. But
those towns had all dirt roads and dirt roads. No highways there because they always feed each
other. This was near the German border. I know we got to this town of. There was dead cattle.
We go into this house and what do we see on the floor, a dead priest. They buried him in the
backyard. One time we walked through the town and the Half Track was behind the infantry. We
can see the Germans battling the infantry. We thought they were going to break through. So I
was down in the basement and all the French women there were praying in French. They were
praying because they were afraid the Germans were going to break through. So we got ready to
help. It was tough.
36
Ferraro: So –
Stavola: One time we were in Germany in a camp somewhere, there are so many names. And
suddenly rockets were firing. They all landed. And that time they captured a German General. I
was amzed because I admired the man. He didn’t move. All these rockets came through. It was
amazing. But they captured him.
Ferraro: Now did you ever think, because Italy was also with the German side, was it ever a
thought for you to have to fight down in Italy. Or did you think that you would always stay in
Germany?
Stavola: No because they had the seventh army fighting through it. The only Italian soldiers I
ever saw was when I was in devided because the English captured Italian soldiers in Africa.
They loved it in England. The war was over for them. They sang in the choir in a small catholic
church and they would used to go down and sleep with all the English girls. They put the British
uniforms on, they were orange, they must have died them orange. With a big P on the back. And
they were privileged. I tired to talk to them.
Ferraro: Did you speak Italian at all?
Stavola: Very little. I never spoke it at home.
Ferraro: Did your parents speak it though?
Stavola: They spoke, but I never spoke Italian to them. You know at that time you thought
maybe it was demeaning to speak Italian. It’s not like it anywhere. But anyway so we went back
to Wantagh Germany and perhaps set up a Barracks there. We stayed in an old German Barracks.
They gave us passes and said where do you want to go? The Riviera
[End of Side Two Tape Two]
37
[Side One Tape Two]
Stavola: So I decided to go to Paris. So on the way to Paris I had a three-day pas. One time we
were going to Luxemburg and we stopped in a small town near Luxemburg, bencenburg. The
people were so nice. I knew some French and they spoke in French and German. So I got to
know these people. Everybody else in the company slept in an old school because I talked tot his
old woman and slept in her house. Two radio operators, the driver and I slept in beds. It was an
old woman and her daughter. Anyway, so I stayed there and there used to be a hairdresser o the
route. He took a liking to us and invite us. I don’t know where he got the liquor from. So after
that, the reason I brought them in, because when I got the three days pass, I went to Breckenburg
first because I took a train to take me to Paris from Germany. And on the way I always diverted.
I went to Breckenburg to see these people. And they were so happy to see me because they heard
over the German radio that the fourth division had been whipped out. So when they saw me they
were so happy. I stayed there all night and then I went to Paris. I got to Paris late. My three day
pass was up by the time I got to Paris.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: So they didn’t care. The war was over. I stayed about 4 dyas in Paris. At that time it
was July 14th and it was the first time they celebrated Bastille Day in Paris since the war was
over. So I witnessed that parade. I walked all over Paris. That’s all I did was walk.
Ferraro: How was Paris?
38
Stavola: Nice, at that time. They treat us well because the war was over. So from Paris now I
had to head back to Germany. I put out my thumb, and I toured the countryside. So I landed in
Southburg, Austria. “So let me go see Southburg.” So I went and then I went back to monsworth.
Ferraro: It didn’t matter that you were really late?
Stavola: It didn’t matter. The war was over. I told you I went to the ninth army division.
Ferraro: What did you do there that the war was over?
Stavola: Nothing much. Just nothing too much. In fact when we were in Checkeslovokia they
sent me and another guy to check up because they already sent people there to set up the
barracks. So they sent me and another guy to check up on these other guys. But when we were
there they did nothing. So we told them what to do. They finally cleaned up by the time people
came. Anyway, so they stayed in Lozworth, then they shipped me up north where the ninth army
division was. So down there you couldn’t fraternize. When we got up to Treadwood, they used to
live in a hotel. It was nice, they had liquor and everything. Down there you couldn’t do anything.
Up there you liquor and a hotel. Then I got in a house up there. I had my own room, which was
nice. I still have a picture of that house. Anyway, so they got ready to go home from there. They
put us on these cattle trains.
Ferraro: Where were you going?
Stavola: We went through France and I finally got to Marsalis. We went through Marsalis. That
town had the smallest streets I have ever seen. The narrowest streets I have ever seen. We
boarded the boat the SS Marine Navel. It was an old Kaiser Liberty ship. We sailed from
Marsalis, France through the Mediterranean through the strait of Gibraltar. At one time I took a
picture of Gibraltar but the sun was too bright.
Ferraro: Without the Germany, you could go straight across without any diversions?
39
Stavola: No worry. We landed in Virginia. There they put us back on trains and shipped us to
Fort Dix.
Ferraro: At Fort Dix, were you discharged?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: Were you discharged?
Stavola: Yeah. They processed it.
Ferraro: Do you remember when you were discharged?
Stavola: In October.
Ferraro: In October?
Stavola: The end of October.
Ferraro: So this was after they bombed Hiroshima and the Japanese war ended also?
Stavola: The Japanese ended before the Germans.
Ferraro: So what happened as soon as the was ended. Did someone come to pick you up?
Stavola: From Fort Dix I took a train home. I went home and I lived in Jamaica. So they didn’t
know I was coming home. It was in the paper, so that was hard to believe. They were so shocked
to see me. Sam and Tony would then come soon.
Ferraro: They came home after you?
Stavola: They did. Well, I was in the army over four years. But before I left here they offered me
a big promotion if I stayed. But I had to go home. I hadn’t seen my wife in two years.
Ferraro: That must have been hard.
Stavola: Yeah.
Ferraro: Sow hat were your plans when you came home? Did you know what you wanted to
be?
40
Stavola: I didn’t know what I wanted to be. I didn’t know whether to go back, everything was up
in the air. Before than, while I was younger, I had taken a test for the post office. I got quite a
high mark. I was undecided to back to that small place. So I finally went to the Post Office. So
my old boss that I had, Mr. Marks, he came to my wedding. He was a nice man.
Ferraro: Your wedding was during the war?
Stavola: We were married in New York at Zimmerman’s. They are no longer there. It was a big
restaurant.
Ferraro: All right, I guess were done. Thank you very much.
Stavola: All right, I probably forgot some things.
41
Reflection Essay
Reflecting on the Oral History Project, which I just completed, provides a lot of positive
feedback. Almost all work in college is given to benefit the student in some way, and in this
project that is made quite clear. The best thing I got coming out of this paper was an Oral History
for my family to treasure. Also, as I look back on my Oral History, I see what I did well and
what I could have done better.
Obtaining an Oral History for from my Uncle John, is a benefit that goes beyond any
grade I could receive from this paper. For years, my father has mentioned to me, how someone
needs to just sit down with a tape recorder and talk to my Uncle John about his family. As the
only sibling left out of 12, keeping his story for years, becomes even that more important. One of
my favorite parts of the interview was when my Uncle echoed this thought of mine. He said,
“You see when people are alive we should drill them on history, which we have never done. You
know, you always feel that time is time eternal and that nothing is ever going to happen, but I
could have asked my father different questions. I could have asked about his grandparents, what
happened to his grandfather.” While hearing this come out of my, unprovoked from me, I felt
very proud sitting there with my tape recorder. I know that in the future my family will treasure
this transcript as a snapshot into the past.
Looking back on my Oral History, there are certain things I would change and
certain things I felt I did very well. First, I must note some things about my Uncle John as an
interviewee. Je just turned 89, a few months ago, but I felt very confidant of his memory. I can
always talk to him about baseball and he can give me all the current players’ statistics. There
were a few places in the interview where he couldn’t remember something, or he said something
which seemed factually wrong (Did he hear wrong that the German was ended or over the years
42
had he forgotten the order of events). However, in the overall, his memory was excellent. He was
hard to understand at times, but I was able to transcribe it. I felt that he could talk forever. If I
wasn’t there and took a nap, my Uncle could have talked the whole time. When I finished the
interview, he actually kept going. He talked right through the post-war years and we ended on his
trip to Mount Rushmore, when he was 50. That provided itself as a good and bad thing.
I was not very nervous going into the interview. That was probably because he was my
uncle (father’s uncle to be exact) and because in my job at the admissions office, I am used to
probing people with questions. However, even with all that, the second I sat down with the tape
recorded, the prospect of sitting there for 90 minutes was scary. Once I realized how much he
wanted to tell his story, however, my concern switched from getting 90 minutes to getting the
best 90 minutes.
In the first quarter of the interview, I spoke to him about family history. This was
particularly interesting for me. Since he wasn’t 100% sure what he was supposed to talk about, I
found it easy to ask a lot of questions. One specific part of the interview, which I am not sure
how well it came out in the transcript, that was powerful, was when he spoke of the death of his
mother. It still bothers, so many years later. As soon as I mentioned was, my Uncle wanted to
jump right there. I kept him back in the pre-war as I asked two more questions pertaining to the
before he was drafted time. However, he finished both those answers by talking about the war, so
I figured with about ¼ of the interview done, it was time to leap to war.
The training part of the interview (the second quarter), I felt I did very well. In general,
the conversation flowed. I did not know any of this material beforehand and was pleased by how
it went. I was really surprised about how often he moved around. One mistake I felt I made was
43
that I did not ask him more about his courtship with his wife. He speaks briefly of his wedding at
the end, but I should have spoken more at that time.
As we moved into the overseas war, my Uncle John felt more comfortable with his story.
I noticed how he seemed to have the whole story mapped out and that he just wanted to tell it
chronologically. I noticed, while I was transcribing, that my number of questions diminished in
this part. I don’t feel that this was a bad thing. I see it as adjusting to the interview. In the first
half, I had to probe him more for the story. In the second half, while I still asked questions when
I wanted to know something, I let him have more freedom in talking. Hence, there are more
longer paragraphs for him in the second half. Every time I asked a question, he would move
quickly to answer it and move on back to what he was saying. This was frustrating at times, but
he was doing such a wonderful job telling his story, it was ok. Sometimes, especially later on in
the interview , he said things which didn’t make sense. I got out of it what I could, however.
At the end of the interview, there was about a page (37-38), on which he started rambling
about random stories. I let him go for a little, but I tried to stop him. He interrupted me, however,
when I interrupted him. One other point to note. He mentioned the Holocaust early in a non-chronological
moment. I asked him to wait, thinking he would talk about it later. However, I
noticed that he forgot to mention it during the end of the interview. So I brought it up then.
While it is slightly out of place, I was able to get it in.
Overall, I feel the interview went very well. I got out of my uncle a lot of information
regarding his life. I felt that I asked many appropriate questions during the interview. I came
away with a valuable experience and a family treasure. This Oral History Project has definitely
been a worth while experience.

Oral History Collection
To read the transcript and listen to the audio/video of this interview at the same time,
first download the pdf of the transcript by clicking on the link at the
top of this screen. The transcript will open in a separate window. Next, select
the or option to the right of the screen.
Special Collections
Musselman Library
Interview with
John Stavola
Interviewer: Steven T. Ferraro
Interview Date: October 8, 2006
World War II
Oral History Project
An Interview with John Stavola
Steven T. Ferraro
Professor Michael J. Birkner
Historical Method
November 2, 2006
1
John Stavola, Oral History
[Tape 1, Side 1]
Steven T. Ferraro: Today is October 8th, 2006. I am sitting here, in my living room, which is
located at 8 Saddler Court, Huntington Station, New York, with John Stavola and we are going
to conduct an interview. Today’s time is 1:36pm and we are going to start now.
Hi Uncle John. How are you?
John Stavola: Fine. Thank you. Fine, Steven.
Ferraro: Alright. So we are going to start our interview now. First, I will ask you about your
parents.
Stavola: My parents were Dominick Stavola and Anna Feminella. They were both born in a
small town in the province of Camagna Italy. My mother came here when she was about two
months old. My father about 17. They both married.
Ferraro: Let me just ask one question. They didn’t obviously know each other in Italy—
Stavola: Well the thing about that is that my Uncle had married my grandmother’s daughter, or
the sister of my mother. And then my father got to know my mother through the marriage of his
brother.
Ferraro: And they met each other in the United States?
Stavola: The met each other in the United States and my father and mother married in South
Brooklyn or Carol Gardens today, in June of 1900.
Ferraro: Wow.
Stavola: They lived for a while in Carol Gardens on Sacun Street and later on they moved to
Bridgeport, Connecticut. That was where my two sisters were born and another girl who died at
the age of six.
2
Ferraro: What did your father do for a living?
Stavola: My father dealed with, [pause], what do you call it? Turning metal into something else.
Ferraro: Metalworker?
Stavola: When he lived in Bridgeport, and then I guess he lost in job. Then he moved back to
Brooklyn, to Long Island City. He dealed with all different paper products – paper in which they
sold and metal – anything they found, they sold it. My mother, naturally, was a home wife, and
she stayed home. And in Long Island City, my brother Joe born there, and three Johns. I was the
third John.
Ferraro: In the same family! Wow!
Stavola: My mother had two Johns. Both died in childbirth, a very young age. She was so
adamant and determined to have named her son John, I came a long and she named me John.
Ferraro: How many total siblings did you have?
Stavola: Twelve.
Ferraro: Wow! And you were the?
Stavola: I was number eight.
Ferraro: Number 8.
Stavola: Anyway, so she named me John. And surprisingly at birth, though I was the sickest of
the three Johns. My mother felt no more Johns after this.
Ferraro: When were you born?
Stavola: August the fifth, 1917.
Ferraro: Wow.
3
Stavola: So, I survived, naturally, and I was born on Hunters Point Avenue in Long Island City.
[I] was baptized in Saint – baptized in Long Island City also. I can’t remember the church. And
after that, we moved to Brooklyn, where my sister Mary was born.
Ferraro: Why did you move to Brooklyn?
Stavola: I [pause]
Ferraro: Do you remember?
Stavola: No. Anyways, we lived in a big house from what I have heard, actually. We moved
when I was very young. I don’t remember Long Island City at all. But anyway, my uncles both
lived in a big house in Long Island City. And I don’t know if they sold the house or what
happened, but they moved to Greg Avenue in Brooklyn. So we lived on Greg Avenue and my
uncle lived on Meeker Avenue which was very close.
Ferraro: How did you—
Stavola: My uncles, and my mother’s sister, in fact, two brothers married two sisters.
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: So we were very close to each other.
Ferraro: So a lot of your family lived close to you?
Stavola: Very Close. We always lived near each other, you know, because my father’s brother
was very close to his younger brother and the sister of my uncle, I should say the wife of my
uncle, died at the age of 38 when we were in Long Island City. She died having her fifteenth
child.
Ferraro: Oh my God.
Stavola: So she passed away.
Ferraro: So you had a lot of cousins?
4
Stavola: She was 38 years old.
Ferraro: You had a lot of cousins then?
Stavola: Oh I had quite a few cousins. Quite a few cousins. We always played together and it
was great. And we moved to Greahme Avenue and well, we lived up on the top floor. That was
where my sister Mary was born (your grandmother). The thing I remember about Greahme
avenue, I was hanging out at a schoolyard, and my sister bought me a little bicycle. [It was a]
three-wheeler, and I would be so careful carrying it up the stairs. We had a very small yard and
we used to play with the other kids. One time we were running around the yard playing cowboys
and Indians when I tripped and split my head open.
Ferraro: Oh.
Stavola: I always remember my mother telling me, “Well, we got to bring him to the hospital.”
So I started crying, naturally. And before that, I fell and I don’t know what blood was gushing
out. I was full of blood, I tried to sneak up the stairs.
Ferraro: [laughs]
Stavola: I lived up on the top floor and I tried to walk really slowly. I didn’t want anybody to see
me.
Ferraro: [laughs]
Stavola: That’s how much sense I had. So my sister spotted me and screamed. So that’s how
they found out. They wanted to take me to the hospital and I said no. What they promised me
was some ice cream of some kind. That was why we went, at that time we went to the druggist to
get my head stitched. It was all right. So time went on and we moved from Greahme Avenue to
Bushwick Avenue.
Ferraro: So you moved around a lot.
5
Stavola: We moved to Bushwick Avenue.
Ferraro: When you moved, did your whole family, like your Aunts and your Uncles all move
together, most of the time?
Stavola: No, we moved to Bushwick Avenue and my uncle moved to. But my father had other
brothers. He had three other brothers. There were five in his family. His father fell. He fell off a
hill or something, and died in Italy. His wife, I don’t remember she died so many years ago. She
is buried out in St. Johns. I found that out through research that she was buried there. You see
when people are alive we should drill them on history, which we have never done. You know,
you always feel that time is time eternal and that nothing is ever going to happen, but I could
have asked my father different questions. I could have asked about his grandparents, what
happened to his grandfather. My mother’s father, he died so many years ago. From what I heard
that had no money and had many children. They came here around 1884. I don’t know how he
died. From what I heard they buried him on in an unmarked grave at public cross cemetery.
Some day I have to got there and try to—
Ferraro: Track him down
Stavola: Find out where. But I found out where my father’s mother [was buried]. I knew where
my mother’s mother is buried because she died. I remember as a child when she passed away in
1929. [She] was a very strong woman, died at the age of 85. She was remarkable.
Ferraro: For that time. Definitely.
Stavola: She was a very strong person. A person younger should have the heart she had. She was
a workaholic. I think she lived in farms on crossing johns or that’s all I heard. It is all hearsay. So
I found out where my other grandmother was buried. I went one time to put a stone on my
mother’s mother’s grave because there was nothing there. So I said that I wanted to put a stone
6
and they said that I had no title to put anything on her grave. So I couldn’t do anything really.
And it was fact that I sent away to Jamestown New York, which is upstate going toward the
Ohio, Pennsylvania, below Buffalo, for the plaque. I put it on the grave, and they took it off.
Ferraro: Why did they take it off?
Stavola: I have no idea. I guess it was because I had no title to the grave. So, anyway. I had an
Uncle who one time promised to send me to college. He would take care of the financing, but he
dropped dead of a heart attack. His wife remarried and that was the end of that. I used to be very
close to my cousins because a lot of them was the same age as I, or maybe the difference of a
few moths or so.
Ferraro: What did you used to do with your cousins?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: What did you—
Stavola: Anyway we had games you know. Anyway moistly we organized a team when I was in
Brooklyn. We called ourselves the Bushwick Tigers.
Ferraro: How did you come up with that name?
Stavola: Because there was a team named the Tigers [Detroit]. You know, kids, we played on
the ball field. I tell you there were more rocks than dirt.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: So one day my brother was catching, my older brother. We had no masks. We had to
borrow the gloves from the other team. We played another team. We lent gloves to each other so
we could have a full complement of gloves to people on the field. So one day my day my brother
was catching and with no mask and someone tipped the ball and it broke his nose. And home we
went. And we had so many problems with that kid. And one day I was playing with my brother
7
on the street. We had a make believe football. He threw it, I was running for it, and don’t you
think a truck came along. He ran into me and I still remember. I lost conscious and I remember
waking up monetarily under the truck. I saw the bottom of the truck. I passed out again. The next
thing I remember my brother was picking me up. Which they shouldn’t have.
Ferraro: They shouldn’t have.
Stavola: They shouldn’t of. They did and someone beside me said, “You have to go the
Hospital.” I went. I was just badly bruised in my legs.
Ferraro: That was lucky.
Stavola: And in fact, those days weren’t like today, Steven. Now, the driver was on the wrong
side of the street. There was no thought whatsoever of suing as they do today.
Ferraro: Times are different.
Stavola: She just said, “Thank god he is alright,” and that was it. That settled that. And I was
fine.
Ferraro: What was your mother like? If you can describe her for me.
Stavola: Oh, she was a wonderful woman. Great woman. She died at the age of fifty-seven.
When we moved form Bushwick Avenue, my father found a place in Jamaica and we moved
there. We weren’t there long, about a year and she passed away. She was complaining of her
stomach and the doctor came over and said she had inflammation of the intestines. So he gave
her some medication but she never got better.
Ferraro: And how old were you?
Stavola: [Pause] I was—
Ferraro: Was it before or after you went into the war?
8
Stavola: Before. Anyway, so we finally called some other doctor who had to rush her to a
hospital bed but she was doing fine. I was doing work. At that time, I actually had a job. I was
saving my salary. I went to Brooklyn Tech at the outset. I stayed there for a year, but when my
uncle passed away, I had no financial means of going to college. So I said, “What am I going to
do? I have to get a job somewhere.” My brothers both worked in one place and they both lost
their jobs.
Ferraro: Where did they work?
Stavola: They worked at a factory. In a fiber mill or something like that, in Bridgeport. They
both lost their jobs, somehow. The mill closed and pretty dire straits my mother was in. She
never made much money. Of course my mother never worked.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: Then the others were married and the younger ones were younger than I. Sam was one
of the two that lost their job. It just boiled down to me. So I took a commercial course at Grover
Cleveland. I graduated there. Trying to find a job was difficult in those days.
Ferraro: Because of the Depression?
Stavola: Yeah. You know the times weren’t that great.
Ferraro: Do you remember when the Depressions first set in? You must have been twelve at the
time.
Stavola: Yeah it was somewhere.
Ferraro: It was in 1929.
Stavola: Anyway, I finally found a job. I had taken stenography and typing. My mother said,
“You know you can get an office job.” So I took that. It deviated so much from the industrial
course that I had taken in Brooklyn Tech. I liked it very much. In Cleveland, I took a commercial
9
course. I took stenography and typing. Also when I graduated, I went to Eastern District High
School for speed.
Ferraro: For speed typing?
Stavola: No for more or less speed – I could take dictation.
Ferraro: Gotcha. Were these classes during high school?
Stavola: No, I took these classes at night. I mean, when I got this job, I still went to night school
for stenography and typing. Anyway, I got this job in Brooklyn. It was the Eureka Patching
Company. Now they made all patching for boats with asbestosis and graphite. It was a mixture.
They made these patches to go on the boats. Sometimes I would go and deliver a package to a
terminal but all the boats were in dry dock. You should have seen the size of these boats on the
dry dock. Tremendous. Other times I worked in the office.
Ferraro: Which did you like better?
Stavola: This was better. Sometimes they had me writing contracts at that time. They required
about six or seven copies of everything. Anyway, he was fine. I had Mr. Marks, Abel Marks, a
wonderful guy. I worked with him for so many years, until I was called into the army.
Ferraro: So, let’s go back a minute. So when you worked, were you supporting most of your
family at the time?
Stavola: Well, I was helping a hell of a lot. My father did not make too much. So whenever I
made something, it helped greatly. Then I got a couple of raises and that helped a lot. My mother
was so happy. And then I looked in the paper one day and I read about a man selling pocket
books and the business was thriving. So I told my sisters Francis and Mary, “Why don’t you
try?” They got the job. My mother was happy as hell. I mean then the depressions seemed to end.
We were in the lapse of luxury.
10
Ferraro: When was that?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: When was this?
Stavola: This was back when we were on Bushwick Avenue. My father lived on Bushwick
Avenue for seventeen years. I was happy to get away from there.
Ferraro: Why were you happy to get away from there?
Stavola: Sometimes, I have always felt, like today, you need a change of pace. Everybody was
getting old there. People were going on their ways. Some friends I had moved. It was not the
same. Anyway, so we moved to Jamaica. And that was where my mother passed away. And that
was where I was inducted into he army.
Ferraro: So when did you first hear about all the problems in Europe? Or how much did you
know about them before?
Stavola: Oh actually, I knew a lot. Sam was home at that time. George got married. The others
were married except Mary, Francis and Tony and Sam. So one day were listening to the radio at
that time and they said that they bombed Pearl Harbor. So actually I was called into the army in
February of 1942. But they had already called me six months before that. My mother passed
away and I was so distraught, with my mother passing away, because I really cared for my
mother. Anyway, so I went to the examiner and my blood pressure was very high. So six moths
later called me back. They asked me to sit down a while and they told me my blood pressure was
fine. So they inducted me from Jamaica.
Ferraro: Now, you knew a lot about what was going on in the war?
Stavola: Oh yeah. I knew a lot. I read the paper.
Ferraro: So were you surprised to be called in or was it expected?
11
Stavola: No, I expected it. My cousins had been called in. My cousin was called to the South
Pacific. He was an engineer on all these islands. Luckily he came back unscathed. He came
home and worked in his truck. I called one day and he dropped dead. My other cousin Dominick,
who just horsed around each other. At that time, he went around Africa to the Middle East. They
could not go through the Mediterranean because of the Japanese. He went around Africa and into
the Middle East. He was in Baghdad and all that. There he married a girl from Baghdad. A
Jewish iraqis. They both came to the states later on. They had two kids. One became a big doctor
in Virginia; the other one was very smart. Two smart kids they had.
Ferraro: What did your father do for money, when you and your brothers left for the army? Was
he worried?
Stavola: Well, I guess he didn’t worry. Mary and Francis had been working.
Ferraro: Ok.
Stavola: At that time they were both working. I went to this office in Jamaica and they put me in
charge of all the recruits. So we get on a train, you know.
Ferraro: How did you get put in charge of the recruits?
Stavola: I don’t know. I don’t know why, but I was put in charge.
Ferraro: They must have liked you.
Stavola: Anyway, they put me in charge of all these people being inducted into the army. We
went to Whitehall Street and from there we were shipped to Fort Dix.
Ferraro: Where is Fort Dix?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: Where is Fort Dix?
Stavola: Fort Dix is in New Jersey. Near Wrightstown. And we all went there.
12
Ferraro: Did you know where you would eventually be sent to?
Stavola: No. I had no idea whatsoever. I spent some time at Fort Dix and the next day they sent
me to Fort Knox, Kentucky, part of the Army force tank division. And then we spent a few
months down there.
Ferraro: So what was it like in Kentucky? Were you still with those recruits? What were they
teaching you?
Stavola: Well down there, they taught us all different sub-tactics. They put us through different
courses where we would crawl through on our stomachs. There were machine guns firing over
your head. You wouldn’t put your head up. And then they had little miniature things that weren’t
real explosives but sounded like real explosives. You see at that time that was the armored force
infantry.
Ferraro: What were the conditions like living there?
Stavola: They weren’t so bad. They weren’t too bad. At that time, we used to go on the Half
Track. And they used to bring us all around. Then we had different forms of target practice. It
went on and they finally shipped me up to Watertown, New York.
Ferraro: They moved you around a lot during training.
Stavola: Oh, all the time. In fact, they moved us up to Watertown, which was the nucleus of the
fourth army division. That’s where they were organized. That’s where the Fourth Army division
became a division, up there.
Ferraro: When they moved you around, did you stay with the same people?
Stavola: No, we sort of switched. In Fort Knox, some went to one army division, another went
to another. I stayed in the Fourth Army, New York all winter and learned the winter maneuvers.
So they finally said, “Well, we are going down to Tennessee. We are maneuvering down in
13
Tennessee.” So I said, “Thank God. At least we are going down where it is warmer.” So they
shipped us down to Camp Forrest, Tennessee and it was snowing.
Ferraro: Snowing in Tennessee! What time of the year was it?
Stavola: This was in the winter time.
Ferraro: You still figured it would be—
Stavola: It would be warmer. Anyways they shipped us down to Tennessee to learn our
maneuvers there. At that time, my brother Sam came down to see me. He went down to
Nashville. I went through the so-called enemy lines. I got myself a jeep. I drove to Nashville to
meet Sam. He wanted to see me. That was it.
Ferraro: And what was he up to at that point?
Stavola: Nothing actually. He wasn’t in the army at that time.
Ferraro: How was he not in it? Was he not drafted?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: Why was he not in it?
Stavola: He was older than I. I do not know why he was. Then just did not call him, yet.
Anyway, So I met him in Nashville and I went back to the army. I cross enemy line. And I went
back to company. We maneuvered through Tennessee from one end to the other. From
Tennessee, at that time they were fighting in Africa. So they brought us to the Mojave desert in
California.
Ferraro: Were they teaching you the same stuff in all the camps or were you learning different
things in all the camps?
Stavola: Different things. Then it was desert training.
Ferraro: Yeah
14
Stavola: Anyway, so naturally coming from New York, what the hell did I know about deserts.
Ferraro: Did you ever travel when you were in New York?
Stavola: When I was—
Ferraro: Before you were in the army, did you ever travel at all?
Stavola: Well, thing I traveled, as soon as I got myself a job, I saved whatever I got scrip
together, because I gave most of the money to my mother to help support the family. And I saved
some money and I said, “Where should I go on a trip?” So I decided to go up to Montreal. And I
had to look to find the cheapest. So I took a bus. Now this bus went straight to Montreal. It went
in such a roundabout way that it took 17 hours to get to Montreal.
Ferraro: Oh my gosh.
Stavola: We went all through Vermont. That’s what I wanted. I wanted to see, for the least
amount of money that I had. Anyway, I went all through. Whenever the bus stopped to eat, it
looked a little too high class for me, I looked around for a cheap place to eat because I didn’t
have that much money. So I survived.
Ferraro: What was your favorite place you saw?
Stavola: I don’t know. Steven, it was so long ago, I really don’t remember the places. Anyplace
I found that seemed more reasonable with cost, I liked. Anyway I went to Montreal and stayed in
a cheap motel. I stayed there for about three days and then worked my way back. That was my
entourage.
Ferraro: Were you able to see a lot of the sites in Montreal?
Stavola: Yeah, I walked.
Ferraro: Walked all over.
Stavola: I walked all over. But that’s all I had. I had nobody.
15
Ferraro: When did you go to see Montreal?
Stavola: It was back, when I was about nineteen years old.
Ferraro: And what made you pick Montreal?
Stavola: I do not know. You know I hear a lot of people smuggling liquor into the states from
Montreal and I had no idea of smuggling liquor. But I heard so much about Montreal from
smugglers that I went to Montreal. It was my chance of getting out of the country. So it was
sweet. At that time, there were no visas or anything involved. No security or whatnot. And I had
a nice time. That was my first trip outside that United States. Anyway, I came back and that was
it. As far as the army was concerned, we were out in the desert of California. I was a city slicker.
That’s why I sprawled out on ground one time on the bed roll and I just slept there. And don’t
you think during the night something went down my leg and I never knew what it was. They told
you to never to leave your bed roll on the ground. Roll it up. Because you never know, snakes
might get in. I never knew what went down my leg. We used to have a water truck because there
was no water there. And we used to fill our helmets, that was how we got our water. So I figured,
we live in a tent. I thought I would speed up my getting up in the morning by filling my helmet
with water, this was I could wash my face. So I put the helmet, filled it up with water, got up, we
slept on cots. I got up in the morning, put my hand in the water and there was one of these desert
rats.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: It was a Kangaroo rat.
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: It had drowned in it! I just picked it up; I dropped it and threw it out.
Ferraro: Did you ever do the hat and the water thing again?
16
Stavola: No I never did. He drowned in it. But that time the fourth army division which was
when I was in Kentucky was how I got in the fourth army division. Because they came along and
lined up everybody and said, “First army division, fourth army division, first, fourth.” So a lot of
them went to the first and some went to the forth. I said that was good.
Ferraro: Which did you want?
Stavola: Well, the first army division was shellacked; they got a beating in The Kassarine Pass
in Africa. So I was thankful that I went to the fourth. Later on, they needed somebody to work at
court-martials, because you know, you always get people to finagle and deal to get out of the
army. So they had different cases, also the soldiers got in trouble, maybe with civilians. So they
assigned me as a Court Stenographer.
Ferraro: Where you still in California at this point, with the fourth?
Stavola: Yeah, and I became a court stenographer.
Ferraro: How was that job?
Stavola: It was hectic. It was hectic. Oh, I never got to get anywhere. Sometimes they would
take a little trip but I had to type about six pages for every trial that they had.
Ferraro: Did your training from your old job at home help you with this? Is that why you got
the job?
Stavola: Well I had learned from my experience working as a stenographer earlier in time.
That’s why they picked me. Anyway, I would be up late at night typing away and everything had
to be perfect. And then they you get these civilians in, they would ramble off on certain things,
you wouldn’t here them and then you would have to stop them, because everything had to be
taken down because all the army sentences were very severe. Very severe. I mean a guy would
just do something [Pauses]
17
Ferraro: What were some of the stranger cases you have seen?
Stavola: A rape case. A guy stealing. You know it got overwhelming for me. I complained a
little. So what happened was were in California and they finally found somebody to replace me.
Ferraro: Was that because you were complaining?
Stavola: I complained a little. You know it was occupying my whole life. Everybody had free
time. I never had free time because we had an abundance of cases. I had to get them out to
Washington, all over the place. So they finally found somebody and they transferred me to tank
outfit.
Ferraro: So when you heard about this what was your—
Stavola: I was relieved. I didn’t give a darn after a while. You know because just too much
work. But then I figured the heck with the tanks after a while. So then I was in the tank outfit.
Ferraro: So was this in the same location or did you have to move?
Stavola: Same division.
Ferraro: Same division.
Stavola: Yeah but it was different. But later on I was transferred from there. You see an armed
division is broken into two parts. One side they got headquarters which stay in the rear, you got
two combat commands. You had combat command A and combat command B. They comprised
a path after battle forces. One take one side. I was with command B. I was in a Half Track. First,
I was in a tank. And then they needed somebody and put me in the Half Track. When we got to
Europe anyway, I became a gunner, I mounted the 50 caliber machine guns. Because I had a lot
of experience. When I was a Fort Knox, I fired all these guns. Tank guns, simulated. They had to
put them on a platform and they put them up and down. And I fired every conceivable weapons,
18
bazookas, you name it, I fired. Anyway, so they put me into a tank and I was a gunman and then
they put me in a Hamtramck.
Ferraro: Did you like this job better or worse?
Stavola: What’s that?
Ferraro: Your new job in the tank, was it better or worse than being a stenographer?
Stavola: No it had nothing to do with stenography. Stenography was out. Nothing with
stenography any more. It’s gone. Now it was a different field entirely.
Ferraro: Which did you like better though?
Stavola: It was too overwhelming. Because you had to be very exact. Here are these guys who
depended on you to put down what was right. So anyway, I finally got into a halftrack. And then
a halftrack got overseas. They transferred me when I got overseas because of the first lieutenant
in charge of the halftrack.
Ferraro: So you are overseas in Europe?
Stavola: I will get back to the desert. They shipped us from the desert to Texas. To Bronwyn,
Texas and we went to learn maneuvers in Texas. There they thought we were getting a little too
soft, so they put us through hardening exercises. They had gas mask drills. You put your gas
mask on and run around and guys would be collapsing. In fact, I had the gas mask on and started
blacking out I remember. Anyway, one night until daytime they had us walk in the daytime thirty
miles.
Ferraro: Oh god!
Stavola: Just to try to toughen us up.
Ferraro: Thirty miles at nighttime?
19
Stavola: Yeah, but in the meantime, back before that I got married to my wife, she came down
to Texas to see me.
Ferraro: So, when did you get married?
Stavola: 1943.
Ferraro: Now how did you meet your wife?
Stavola: My cousin worked with her and said, “I know some nice fellow for you.” So I went up
to the Bronx one time and met her.
Ferraro: Did you meet her before you went in the army?
Stavola: No, while I was in the army.
Ferraro: While you were in the army. So were you able to go back home, while in the army?
Stavola: Yeah. In fact I went down to Tennessee to learn maneuvers before we went to
California they gave people free time. I came home from Tennessee. I went to Chattanooga, I
took the train though. So when I got home, naturally, I got late, and the train got me there late. I
went to LaGuardia airport at that time. I hopped on the first plane that arrived and it was an old
one pilot jet. It looked like they patched it up as they did in the war. And so I flew back. We flew
over the mountains in Virginia. And after that, that bounce. Ohh! We finally landed in Nashville.
Now I landed in Nashville and I said, “Now I am 90 miles away from my camp. And this is cold
weather.” I still had my summer clothes on. So finally, someone arrived in a jeep and I froze.
Finally, I got back to the camp. Also, when I was in Texas, my brother was there. I got off in
California. When I was home, I took the train home and going back, I took the train. And when I
got to Chicago I was a little late, I was always late.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
20
Stavola: I got to Chicago and I was late. I said, “Now what?” The train, by the time it come, it
was very late. So somebody said, “You know there is a mail train. You have to go to Kansas City
to pick it up. And that would get you out to the desert much faster.” So I figured, “Ok.” So I
hopped on the train, in Chicago, and went to Kansas City, I hopped on the mail train, and what
do you think. It let’s me off in Clovers, New Mexico. So there, I am the only one to get off the
mail train, because I was the only passenger. And the only person on the platform was a big
heavy set Indian women. And don’t you think I had to wait until the train that came from
Chicago came.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: I should have taken it from Chicago. I didn’t make any time at all.
Ferraro: But you got a good story out of it.
Stavola: I got a good story out of it. So I finally got out to the where I had to go.
Ferraro: Did you write home a lot in the army? Were you able to communicate?
Stavola: Once in a while. There wasn’t a lot to write about, what was I going to say. Anyway,
when I was in Texas, my brother Sam again. You know he was in the army, so was Tony. Tony
was in Randolph Field Texas.
Ferraro: Tony was your brother.
Stavola: Yes. Uncle Tony. He was stationed with the Air Force. Sam was in the infantry and was
stationed in Camp swift. I hadn’t seen Sam in a long time. My wife never met him so I arranged
that we would meet in Austin Texas, right near the University of Texas. So my wife came down
to Texas, I don’t know how she did it. She had so many phobias but she managed to get down on
the train. And she came down to Bronwyn, Texas. And she was shocked because down there,
there was all bugs on the windows. You know, coming from the Bronx. Anyway, she found a
21
place down there to say. So we went to Bronwyn, Texas. From Bronwyn, to Austin. I am waiting
there and who comes up the street, but my bother Sam. I hadn’t seen him in a couple of years.
[End of Tape 1 Side 1]
[Start of Tape 1 Start 2]
Stavola: We went back to Camp Swift, which was further south in Texas then I was. My wife
left. I went home and came back and the division left. We were sent overseas. And we all
boarded trains in the division. And went up from Texas straight up to Iowa. And then across.
Ferraro: Did you know where you were going overseas yet?
Stavola: Somehow, I knew briefly. I got to know certain people. Anyway so we went up to Iowa
and over up to Massachusetts at Camp Mile Sandish. And we left Camp Mile Sandish. In fact, I
was out one day and I was in Jamaica plains and I come from Jamaica. So I called them over one
day and told them I was going overseas. They weren’t supposed to say. It was in December—
Ferraro: December of 1943?
Stavola: ‘43.
Ferraro: ‘43.
Stavola: We left to go overseas. The thing was that they were so afraid of the German
submarines that we went straight down to Virginia. See, we had a number of destroyers, the
battleship Texas. It as one of the biggest convoys to go overseas. We went straight out the coast
of the United States and over off the Azores of Spain, up and around into the Irish Sea, and I
landed in Swansea Wales.
22
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: After 14 days.
Ferraro: 14 days! How were the condition of the boat getting there?
Stavola: Terrible.
Ferraro: Terrible.
Stavola: Terrible. The boat was an old Caribbean, SS Santa Paula. But they used it in the
Caribbean. And that boat just rocked. The fact was that while we were on the boat, I knew the
captain. I got to know the captain, that’s how I knew the route we were taking. Anyway, so while
we were on the boat he put me in charge of all the police. I will tell you we hit a storm one night
and the garbage cans were flying all over the place, water was coming down all over. What a
mess. So after a while I said, “the hell with this.” I said I need some air and you can see the boat
going down into a hole.
Ferraro: Oh no!
Stavola: But then it came up. The waves were going so high that they went over the boat! In
fact, I heard a couple of people, the wave came up and washed them overboard. But the fact is if
you washed overboard, that was it.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: They couldn’t stop the convoy just to look for you because they feared the German
submarines. But it was a long journey. Then when I was there, they [asked] me if I could help at
some paper that they wanted to put out. Something to amuse the troops while we were going
there, so we published a little paper.
Ferraro: Was it more news back from America or was it comedy?
Stavola: Actually, news from America partially, if anything happened on the boat.
23
Ferraro: This was in Wales that you did this?
Stavola: Yeah. So we landed on Swansea Wales. So they put us on trains. They had all the
curtains down on the train. Completely in the darkness. We came to this small town in England.
It was called the Devizes. It was right near Bristol England. It was dark, no lights or nothing. To
find your way around. They put us into barracks. In fact, you had to sleep on cats, which were
just iron slats. The mattress was straw or hay, whatever they had. The only thing in there which
was gigantic was fire hoses. It didn’t use up too much room. And that was where we stayed for a
while.
Ferraro: So what were you doing while you were in England? Were you still training?
Stavola: We were training. Of course than we would go onto the English Moors and we trained
there. At that time they started bombing London and you could see the lights going off in the
distance. The lights tried to get the planes. You know they were firing. In fact when we were on
the Moors, some German planes were on fire. And it came down not far from where we were. So
we trained on the Moors and many days they had big retreat. They had us try to get through some
of these English towns and they ripped the side of the house off.
Ferraro: Oh.
Stavola: Because the roads are so [narrow] anyway. While in England we worked on our
maneuvers. One time we were in England and they had a big plans for using tanks and infantry.
They called it leap frogging, because a tank would go, then an infantry. They would jump in.
Anyway, so we were up in England and who comes but General [George] Patton. With a
squeaky voice. It was surprising.
Ferraro: Did he speak to your—
24
Stavola: No, they had a few generals there. See we had a big paper machet field where they
practiced. They were practicing all the leap froggining. I wasn’t there at that time. They had all
these big offices. So we helped make a little paper machet field to use. So that was the only time
I saw Patton in the whole war. Then one time they sent us down to the coast resort in England,
Torquay. I never saw those English at that shore. Anyway, they sent us down to Torquay just to
rattle up the Germans, to think that we had all or radios going. Just to think that we had plans. So
they brought us down to Torquay. The only thing we did down there was we had a plane with a
sleeve on the end and we were practicing trying to hit that sleeve. And while were in mazes, they
were bombing London at that time.
Ferraro: Where you worried that they were bombing so close to you? That was the closest you
have been to combat.
Stavola: No, they weren’t close. Bristol where we were was closer. Of course there was nothing
to bomb anyway. Anyway, I decided, “Boy, I would like to go to London.” So I went by myself
because no one would want to go with me, because they are bombing London. So I figured, “the
hell with it.”
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: It might be my only chance to see London. So I went to London and the first day I get
there, they bombed it. They bombed this other station. I landed at Victoria station and I think the
other was Paddington. I landed on Paddington and they bombed Victoria Station. So they had an
air raid. So you went to London at that time and they had all these squares, sandbags or anti-aircrafts.
So the first day I get there, it was late at night and I didn’t know what to do because
they were bombing. First thing I saw was a black curtain. So, “let me see what was behind it.”
25
There was a stairway. So I went down the stairs and there was a pub. I said, “Boy did I come to
the right place.”
Ferraro: There are always pubs in London.
Stavola: [Laughs] It was downstairs and had a black curtain and everything. You see when I was
in the visors, they would have these big plywood boards. Every night when it got dark, we would
put these boards over the windows. So there was no light. It was rough walking around a while
and we got used to the dark. We would walk into the walls. Anyways when I went to London, I
walked all over London. They had the old Scotland Yard; I was looking for [10] Downing Street.
I couldn’t find it. It’s just a little alley. I went back to the camp. Then they finally shipped us to
the Southampton division. That was about two weeks after the invasion of Normandy beach. We
left Southampton to Omaha. That’s when I landed on Omaha beach. And I was shocked because
the battle line hadn’t gone that far.
Ferraro: They didn’t move it far yet?
Stavola: No. Always so we stayed there a day or so and the Germans bombed us. They bombed
the whole line. See when we went across we did in an LCD. It had a big balloon on top. That’s
because if the Germans tried [to bomb] they couldn’t get to low because we would use our
machine guns. When we landed on Omaha beach [Pause].
Ferraro: So this was your first experience in any type of combat when they started bombing
you?
Stavola: Well, the bombing and then they found were we broke out of the Half Track. After a
while the Germans became so disoriented, I was on a small company and we were on a road.
And the second time the sergeant of the guard posted me in the rocks under a wooden bridge.
The Germans became disoriented because their division got split apart. At night, I was there with
26
a couple of guys. We hear noise. The Germans are coming. They are rattling with their tanks.
They come right over our heads. They are going over to the town of Mount Rogers on a hill.
That is where headquarters are. So we called for air support. And we can see the planes
straighten them up. See that’s the purpose of armored division. We do not stay so long in a
certain place.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: You just break up communication. So that’s what they did they broke it up. We called
for air support. So believe it or not, years later when I delivered mail, I used to have a druggist
on our route in Bridgeport. So were talking one day and he tells me that his brother was killed in
the army during combat. He told me that his brother was killed because when we left there the
Germans, see we were first out of Mount Rogers, but the reason we left that area was that they
went back. His brother was killed when they tried to retake Mount Rogers.
Ferraro: It’s a good thing you moved around a lot.
Stavola: Well, we had to. From there when they broke through he lines, because sometimes with
the Germans you tired to build a foxhole and the Germans just buried there dead right there and
if we dug too far down [we’d hit bodies]. Anyway, so they think they we were headed for France
-- Normandy Omaha Beach and Brittany. We were headed for Brittany. One time we were about
16 miles or more ahead of everything else.
Ferraro: Oh wow!
Stavola: And they used to drop supplies by plane. So my company pulls into a field. See, what
they were trying to do was contain support of Lorean, which was a submarine base for the
Germans. We were on out way near Lorean and we pulled into a field and we were their not
more than a couple of hours and the Germans let us have it. They zeroed in on us. Boy, if you
27
ever saw movies where the house and trees go on fire, where the shells were coming closer. It
scared the hell out of us. So we got out of there. You would be surprised, some of these guys
froze. I pushed them. You can’t imagine. They froze. I know a couple people in our company
and a couple others were killed. I know that my great friend La Moyne, was he, I think he got
frightened and he moved from one place to another. He came from upstate. I always wanted to
go up and tell his family but I didn’t have the heart. When we were all in Texas we would hang
out together. We had good times. We used to go to Dallas and Fort Worth and had a good time.
Ferraro: So your friends from Texas you were able to stay with?
Stavola: Yeah, we stayed.
Ferraro: Were you able to stay in contact after the war?
Stavola: Yeah some of them. The others they lived out west.
Ferraro: Were a lot of them originally from New York?
Stavola: Originally from the East. I knew a guy named Aish that was from the Amish country.
Mike Saras lived in Tennessee. Him I knew very well. I knew some others also. There was one
in Hackensack I knew a captain who knew my cousin. I kept in touch after the war. I have a
picture home of six of us all friends near the barracks, a couple died in the war. I think there is
just one or two of us left. Myself and some guy, in Merrick, I keep in touch with him but I think
mentally he is losing it. I meant to go up and see him. Anyway those are the people. Zahra, I
used to go to all these conventions. We went to Houston together to Savannah.
Ferraro: Conventions for World War Two Veterans?
Stavola: This was after the war.
Ferraro: Yeah. This was for the Vets?
28
Stavola: Edison, New Jersey. Kalamazoo, Michigan (Where Jeter is from). We went all over. I
went all over with him. He just passed away two years ago. Now I stop going because I have no
one to go with. We went to Houston and the division part we went to Johnson Space Center. You
know they really treat us regally there. And in fact one of the scientists there came to where we
were located in Houston and made a beautiful speech and also we were invited to a Jewish
synagogue and a big meeting hall. Because my division all through Germany had freed two
concentration camps. See combat command freed Audrow and I went through Bookenball but
see we never stopped. We went right through. I saw the camp themselves and some of the people
came out to wave at me. But then we went through it. See the infantry came through after. So
they came in but the Germans had retreated.
Ferraro: So these concentration camps were in Germany?
Stavola: Yeah.
Ferraro: When you went there, did you know anything about the Holocaust? Did they tell you
anything?
Stavola: Well, we heard.
Ferraro: So you heard rumors.
Stavola: One time we were in [Pause]
Ferraro: We will stay back in France now and get this later.
Stavola: Yeah.
Ferraro: So you are in France.
Stavola: So anyway, we went through. So they shelled the hell out of us. Then they finally got
an infantry out and they stationed them near us near Looe. Because they felt it would take too
much to attack the submarine base. It would cost too many casualties. They figured to just
29
contain it by having troops. But sometime they fire these guns, Steven, which sound like railroad
trains. They had these big guns. So I would come over and they sound like railroad tracks. They
brought this infantry and we left. Then we went south a couple hundred miles, because that time
the American troops tried to encircle the German troops around Paris, they call that Falaise gap
or something. In the meantime, they put me in charge of the Half Track. Because they had a first
lieutenant, from California, but he was killed. Anyway, so they put me in charge.
Ferraro: What was your rank at this point?
Stavola: Staff Sergeant. So they put me in charge. They put me up there with the machine guns.
I used to have to be included with the officers because I was in charge. As far as a router
protector. You had to keep in line because a couple of tanks shot up. They called an ordinance.
Ordinance 126. And we took the wrong road. You see, so you deviate from the main road that
we were in and now you are by yourself. See but if you stay in line with all the other tanks, no
one will want to attack or sack you. But they took the wrong road and were shot up. That’s why
it was so important to watch yourself. One time, you know from some of the roads weren’t paved
and were dusty. So much dirt got into my eyes because I had no glasses. That’s why we rested a
while and boy I was so tired. I couldn’t be able to sleep with all that dirt in my eyes.
Ferraro: When you traveled around France, how did you sleep? How did you take care of
yourself? Did you stay in the tanks or in tents?
Stavola: I left the tanks, and I was in the Hamtramck. You see I was in charge of a couple of
radio operators, two Polish guys. They would go skiing. They were my radio operators. Then I
had the driver, George Benton, he was what we all learned. Anyways he was the driver. And I
had to mount the machine gun and make sure it was revolving. It was fifty calibers and it swung
around. Because sometimes when we were in certain places, you know you had to watch. I
30
would always tell the Half Track if there was a wall or something to hide behind, because you
know these other guys, they would fire if a plane came down the, the plane was low and they
would be firing low, and that thing could hit. It was surprising how many accidents. One time in
the field, I heard a shot go off. See they used to attach different outfits to our division, like a tank
destroyer outfit.
Ferraro: Yeah.
Stavola: I heard something go off. I rushed over there. Somebody fooled around with a German
gun and a bazooka and shot himself in the head. We went in there and there was blood all over.
We all went back into the Half Tracks. He had a gun; he thought it was on safety, it wasn’t.
Ferraro: So it was dangerous there?
Stavola: Different things. But you know people were killed accidentally.
Ferraro: Was there a lot of that?
Stavola: It must have been a lot through the army. There was a lot killed in action. Also, I used
to have a guy in the company, he used to be on attack, Joe Hoffman. Joe was a big big strong guy
and he was on the field talking to a guy who was both holding a gun, so they held the gun. So
they. He used to play for the Philadelphia Eagles.
Ferraro: The Philadelphia Eagles!
Stavola: Anyway, there were accidents, always accidents. One time in France, the Germans had
overrun the French and took their champagne. Then we overran them then and stole the
champagne. So we took it and tried to put it all in the Half Tracks. And you know it was so
warm, I drank so much of it that I started to feel sick.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
31
Stavola: It was dry and it was hot. Funny moment. Also when you were going through France
they used to have coverings with different colors. Any plane overhead would see that they were
friendly.
Ferraro: And the planes would understand what color meant what?
Stavola: Yep. One time this French. See the French have this FFI, which in French means the
French Forces of the interior. They used to be trying to help out. So they got a lot of German
vehicles to give to us and don’t you know they shot the vehicles. They killed so many. They ere
stupid. Because every time we had to put different color things on and one day it was yellow and
one day it was red. It was a good thing.
Ferraro: Definitely
Stavola: Sometimes the Germans had these planes with the Suka die model. One time I was
shooting and it was so slow, I couldn’t hit it. No one could it.
Ferraro: [Laughs] They were too slow.
Stavola: The Germans had a lot of Jet planes too. It was something.
Ferraro: What was living in France like at that time?
Stavola: We never lived in anything but the fields and that was where we slept. In fact we went
from Omaha beach to Brittany to south to Ovifgion to Paris to the eastern part of France, the
Dead sea. Around Alsace Lorain and at that time the Germans broke through into Belgium. That
was the Battle of the Bulge. Somehow, I was sick as a dog.
Ferraro: What was the medicine like, when you were there? Were the nurses and doctors?
Stavola: Not really. What they did was get an ambulance and get me back to a field hospital.
Miles and miles back. So all I did was lay on the ground and no one bothered me. By that time
they were busy with everything else.
32
Ferraro: What was the hospital like? Were there a lot of people in it?
Stavola: Big tent, of course all wounded guys came in. Anyway, so what I did, nobody was
bothering me so I picked myself up and I worked my way back to my company.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: I got back to my company and guys did not know what to do. It was getting cold and
freezing, stoves. Then they got orders to go up to Belgium because the Germans broke through.
At that time, Belgium was a training ground for all troops. The Germans broke through and have
a lot of American uniforms and spoke English. So they infiltrated all these lines. We got up there
and you could see all these things destroyed. We were up to into the Ardennes and it was cold.
God it was cold.
Ferraro: This was once again back to winter?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: This was once again back to winter?
Stavola: It was cold. It was the fourteen below zero. And I was cold.
Ferraro: What did they give you to wear in the army?
Stavola: We used to have uniforms, warm clothing, but I was so sick I needed a couple of
blankets. I was on the Half Track shivering. It was all frozen. But anyway, when we got up there
they already started mining trees. So we finally made it to Bastogne, that was where the 101st
one. As soon as we got to the Bastogne, the Germans were still firing on the Bastogne. One shell
landed right near us and the Half Track shacked. The damn shrapnel flies over my head and
bounced on the wall.
Ferraro: Close call.
33
Stavola: Then I look at the field and I don’t believe what I see, Steve, some guy was hit in the
face. And we just [pause] kept down and moved. The driver of the Half Track he moved. We had
the headquarters, near Bastogne. But they had finally called broken through and freed them.
Then we came down and finally settled into his part of Germany. Oh, before that anyway we
came down and headed for eastern Germany. We got as far as a town deep into Germany and we
kept hitting obstacles because the Germans would bomb the overpass. We could not pass. So
anyway, we got this town going though Saxon and there was one town in Saxon where the
finally got him to surrender. So I went down to headquarters in German battle zone. I ripped it
off and I still have it home.
Ferraro: Wow!
Stavola: The pennant with the tassels and Swastika on it. I have it at home.
Ferraro: At this what did they tell you about the war? Were they telling you that you were
winning the war?
Stavola: Well, I figured we were winning the war because we were advancing. I knew we went
over the Rhine at that time and the Germans were trying to keep us form going over the Rhine.
So they had all these bridges and as they went over the Rhine they would shell them. And they
kept going to Saxong and to eastern part of Germany but they stopped because the Russians.
Ferraro: They were coming from the other way.
Stavola: They had to take that angle. After they pulled us back, we went into Checalaslovokia.
We went all the way back and around and were right outside of Prague when they stopped us
again because the Russians were right outside of Prague. Otherwise we wouldn’t have stopped.
All the people seemed to like us, they were so happy. You see, they were so fearful of the
Russians coming in, when they saw us they were glad.
34
Ferraro: What was Checkelslovokia like?
Stavola: Very urban. Anyway, I got a jeep and I went into Prague, this guy and I. There were a
lot of Russians in Prague. So I cam back and the Russians finally came into camp looking for
two white Russian generals that fought with Germany against Russia. What I read in the army
paper later on is that they finally caught up with them, hung them both, on meat hooks. So they
hung them on meet hooks. They were pretty brutal. That’s why people didn’t like them. And so
finally in Checlvokia because war ended and they pulled us back and went to Germany in
Munich, in Longwood.
Ferraro: What were everyone’s reaction when the war ended?
Stavola: Oh actually, everyone was glad. It was great.
Ferraro: Were you surprised that it ended then?
Stavola: Yes, we weren’t aware what was going on. We heard before, that the war in Japan was
over. And another thing my brother Sam had been with the infantry 97 and they came to Europe
at the tail end of the war. Then when the war ended, we had a big battle of the location of all our
troops and I saw that my brother’s division was in bad bird Germany. So if figured, I got a jeep, I
went up to bad bird, and I noticed they were moving out. I had just missed my brother. They had
moved out. So I went back to the company. So later on in the fourth army, division was going to
stay in Europe. So they transferred me to the ninth army division, which was going home. And I
went up to small town artrstus, near, it was pretty good. See where I at that time they had not
fraternized with anyone in Germany.
Ferraro: I just want to go back to one thing we talked about before and didn’t finish. You said
there were concentration camps when you went through?
Stavola: Yeah.
35
Ferraro: When you went through them did you know everything that was going on? Did you—
Stavola: I heard, but I didn’t know what was going on. Because we went right through the heart
of the camp and you kept right going. That was not our purpose, our purpose was not that. So
they called some infantry division and had them take over. See, actually, we were supposed to go
through wake up. You go into some of these towns and take all the guns. You go into a town and
there are people on the sidewalk-saying hello. But during the end of the war, the Germans were
running out of manpower. Sometimes you would see a German walking with his shoulders hurt,
you would feel sorry for him.
Ferraro: After the war, when you found out, were you surprised to find out how bad conditions
were at the concentration camps?
Stavola: Yes, that is true. That was why when we went to Houston that time they gave us a meal
and everything, because we had freed two concentration camps. We had freed Bookenbad. Later
on some other people said they went through it but they were lying. I went through it myself so I
would know. Anyway, I know we went over to openheiom, we went to Alsace Loraine. To
eastern part of Germany. I was in Alsace. They had German names in hat part of France. But
those towns had all dirt roads and dirt roads. No highways there because they always feed each
other. This was near the German border. I know we got to this town of. There was dead cattle.
We go into this house and what do we see on the floor, a dead priest. They buried him in the
backyard. One time we walked through the town and the Half Track was behind the infantry. We
can see the Germans battling the infantry. We thought they were going to break through. So I
was down in the basement and all the French women there were praying in French. They were
praying because they were afraid the Germans were going to break through. So we got ready to
help. It was tough.
36
Ferraro: So –
Stavola: One time we were in Germany in a camp somewhere, there are so many names. And
suddenly rockets were firing. They all landed. And that time they captured a German General. I
was amzed because I admired the man. He didn’t move. All these rockets came through. It was
amazing. But they captured him.
Ferraro: Now did you ever think, because Italy was also with the German side, was it ever a
thought for you to have to fight down in Italy. Or did you think that you would always stay in
Germany?
Stavola: No because they had the seventh army fighting through it. The only Italian soldiers I
ever saw was when I was in devided because the English captured Italian soldiers in Africa.
They loved it in England. The war was over for them. They sang in the choir in a small catholic
church and they would used to go down and sleep with all the English girls. They put the British
uniforms on, they were orange, they must have died them orange. With a big P on the back. And
they were privileged. I tired to talk to them.
Ferraro: Did you speak Italian at all?
Stavola: Very little. I never spoke it at home.
Ferraro: Did your parents speak it though?
Stavola: They spoke, but I never spoke Italian to them. You know at that time you thought
maybe it was demeaning to speak Italian. It’s not like it anywhere. But anyway so we went back
to Wantagh Germany and perhaps set up a Barracks there. We stayed in an old German Barracks.
They gave us passes and said where do you want to go? The Riviera
[End of Side Two Tape Two]
37
[Side One Tape Two]
Stavola: So I decided to go to Paris. So on the way to Paris I had a three-day pas. One time we
were going to Luxemburg and we stopped in a small town near Luxemburg, bencenburg. The
people were so nice. I knew some French and they spoke in French and German. So I got to
know these people. Everybody else in the company slept in an old school because I talked tot his
old woman and slept in her house. Two radio operators, the driver and I slept in beds. It was an
old woman and her daughter. Anyway, so I stayed there and there used to be a hairdresser o the
route. He took a liking to us and invite us. I don’t know where he got the liquor from. So after
that, the reason I brought them in, because when I got the three days pass, I went to Breckenburg
first because I took a train to take me to Paris from Germany. And on the way I always diverted.
I went to Breckenburg to see these people. And they were so happy to see me because they heard
over the German radio that the fourth division had been whipped out. So when they saw me they
were so happy. I stayed there all night and then I went to Paris. I got to Paris late. My three day
pass was up by the time I got to Paris.
Ferraro: [Laughs]
Stavola: So they didn’t care. The war was over. I stayed about 4 dyas in Paris. At that time it
was July 14th and it was the first time they celebrated Bastille Day in Paris since the war was
over. So I witnessed that parade. I walked all over Paris. That’s all I did was walk.
Ferraro: How was Paris?
38
Stavola: Nice, at that time. They treat us well because the war was over. So from Paris now I
had to head back to Germany. I put out my thumb, and I toured the countryside. So I landed in
Southburg, Austria. “So let me go see Southburg.” So I went and then I went back to monsworth.
Ferraro: It didn’t matter that you were really late?
Stavola: It didn’t matter. The war was over. I told you I went to the ninth army division.
Ferraro: What did you do there that the war was over?
Stavola: Nothing much. Just nothing too much. In fact when we were in Checkeslovokia they
sent me and another guy to check up because they already sent people there to set up the
barracks. So they sent me and another guy to check up on these other guys. But when we were
there they did nothing. So we told them what to do. They finally cleaned up by the time people
came. Anyway, so they stayed in Lozworth, then they shipped me up north where the ninth army
division was. So down there you couldn’t fraternize. When we got up to Treadwood, they used to
live in a hotel. It was nice, they had liquor and everything. Down there you couldn’t do anything.
Up there you liquor and a hotel. Then I got in a house up there. I had my own room, which was
nice. I still have a picture of that house. Anyway, so they got ready to go home from there. They
put us on these cattle trains.
Ferraro: Where were you going?
Stavola: We went through France and I finally got to Marsalis. We went through Marsalis. That
town had the smallest streets I have ever seen. The narrowest streets I have ever seen. We
boarded the boat the SS Marine Navel. It was an old Kaiser Liberty ship. We sailed from
Marsalis, France through the Mediterranean through the strait of Gibraltar. At one time I took a
picture of Gibraltar but the sun was too bright.
Ferraro: Without the Germany, you could go straight across without any diversions?
39
Stavola: No worry. We landed in Virginia. There they put us back on trains and shipped us to
Fort Dix.
Ferraro: At Fort Dix, were you discharged?
Stavola: What?
Ferraro: Were you discharged?
Stavola: Yeah. They processed it.
Ferraro: Do you remember when you were discharged?
Stavola: In October.
Ferraro: In October?
Stavola: The end of October.
Ferraro: So this was after they bombed Hiroshima and the Japanese war ended also?
Stavola: The Japanese ended before the Germans.
Ferraro: So what happened as soon as the was ended. Did someone come to pick you up?
Stavola: From Fort Dix I took a train home. I went home and I lived in Jamaica. So they didn’t
know I was coming home. It was in the paper, so that was hard to believe. They were so shocked
to see me. Sam and Tony would then come soon.
Ferraro: They came home after you?
Stavola: They did. Well, I was in the army over four years. But before I left here they offered me
a big promotion if I stayed. But I had to go home. I hadn’t seen my wife in two years.
Ferraro: That must have been hard.
Stavola: Yeah.
Ferraro: Sow hat were your plans when you came home? Did you know what you wanted to
be?
40
Stavola: I didn’t know what I wanted to be. I didn’t know whether to go back, everything was up
in the air. Before than, while I was younger, I had taken a test for the post office. I got quite a
high mark. I was undecided to back to that small place. So I finally went to the Post Office. So
my old boss that I had, Mr. Marks, he came to my wedding. He was a nice man.
Ferraro: Your wedding was during the war?
Stavola: We were married in New York at Zimmerman’s. They are no longer there. It was a big
restaurant.
Ferraro: All right, I guess were done. Thank you very much.
Stavola: All right, I probably forgot some things.
41
Reflection Essay
Reflecting on the Oral History Project, which I just completed, provides a lot of positive
feedback. Almost all work in college is given to benefit the student in some way, and in this
project that is made quite clear. The best thing I got coming out of this paper was an Oral History
for my family to treasure. Also, as I look back on my Oral History, I see what I did well and
what I could have done better.
Obtaining an Oral History for from my Uncle John, is a benefit that goes beyond any
grade I could receive from this paper. For years, my father has mentioned to me, how someone
needs to just sit down with a tape recorder and talk to my Uncle John about his family. As the
only sibling left out of 12, keeping his story for years, becomes even that more important. One of
my favorite parts of the interview was when my Uncle echoed this thought of mine. He said,
“You see when people are alive we should drill them on history, which we have never done. You
know, you always feel that time is time eternal and that nothing is ever going to happen, but I
could have asked my father different questions. I could have asked about his grandparents, what
happened to his grandfather.” While hearing this come out of my, unprovoked from me, I felt
very proud sitting there with my tape recorder. I know that in the future my family will treasure
this transcript as a snapshot into the past.
Looking back on my Oral History, there are certain things I would change and
certain things I felt I did very well. First, I must note some things about my Uncle John as an
interviewee. Je just turned 89, a few months ago, but I felt very confidant of his memory. I can
always talk to him about baseball and he can give me all the current players’ statistics. There
were a few places in the interview where he couldn’t remember something, or he said something
which seemed factually wrong (Did he hear wrong that the German was ended or over the years
42
had he forgotten the order of events). However, in the overall, his memory was excellent. He was
hard to understand at times, but I was able to transcribe it. I felt that he could talk forever. If I
wasn’t there and took a nap, my Uncle could have talked the whole time. When I finished the
interview, he actually kept going. He talked right through the post-war years and we ended on his
trip to Mount Rushmore, when he was 50. That provided itself as a good and bad thing.
I was not very nervous going into the interview. That was probably because he was my
uncle (father’s uncle to be exact) and because in my job at the admissions office, I am used to
probing people with questions. However, even with all that, the second I sat down with the tape
recorded, the prospect of sitting there for 90 minutes was scary. Once I realized how much he
wanted to tell his story, however, my concern switched from getting 90 minutes to getting the
best 90 minutes.
In the first quarter of the interview, I spoke to him about family history. This was
particularly interesting for me. Since he wasn’t 100% sure what he was supposed to talk about, I
found it easy to ask a lot of questions. One specific part of the interview, which I am not sure
how well it came out in the transcript, that was powerful, was when he spoke of the death of his
mother. It still bothers, so many years later. As soon as I mentioned was, my Uncle wanted to
jump right there. I kept him back in the pre-war as I asked two more questions pertaining to the
before he was drafted time. However, he finished both those answers by talking about the war, so
I figured with about ¼ of the interview done, it was time to leap to war.
The training part of the interview (the second quarter), I felt I did very well. In general,
the conversation flowed. I did not know any of this material beforehand and was pleased by how
it went. I was really surprised about how often he moved around. One mistake I felt I made was
43
that I did not ask him more about his courtship with his wife. He speaks briefly of his wedding at
the end, but I should have spoken more at that time.
As we moved into the overseas war, my Uncle John felt more comfortable with his story.
I noticed how he seemed to have the whole story mapped out and that he just wanted to tell it
chronologically. I noticed, while I was transcribing, that my number of questions diminished in
this part. I don’t feel that this was a bad thing. I see it as adjusting to the interview. In the first
half, I had to probe him more for the story. In the second half, while I still asked questions when
I wanted to know something, I let him have more freedom in talking. Hence, there are more
longer paragraphs for him in the second half. Every time I asked a question, he would move
quickly to answer it and move on back to what he was saying. This was frustrating at times, but
he was doing such a wonderful job telling his story, it was ok. Sometimes, especially later on in
the interview , he said things which didn’t make sense. I got out of it what I could, however.
At the end of the interview, there was about a page (37-38), on which he started rambling
about random stories. I let him go for a little, but I tried to stop him. He interrupted me, however,
when I interrupted him. One other point to note. He mentioned the Holocaust early in a non-chronological
moment. I asked him to wait, thinking he would talk about it later. However, I
noticed that he forgot to mention it during the end of the interview. So I brought it up then.
While it is slightly out of place, I was able to get it in.
Overall, I feel the interview went very well. I got out of my uncle a lot of information
regarding his life. I felt that I asked many appropriate questions during the interview. I came
away with a valuable experience and a family treasure. This Oral History Project has definitely
been a worth while experience.