Now we are finally getting somewhere. Just like Obama is ineligible technically because his fathers British Nationality 'governed' his birth status in 1961, Ted Cruz is ineligible too. Fox News has confirmed it and rightly so. Sean Hannity made a huge blunder the other day and declared Ted Cruz a natural born citizen because he was born to a American mother in Canada. He was so wrong. Cruz is a 14th Amendment U.S. 'statutory' (not natural born) citizen which is something completely different than a Article 2 Section 1 Constitutional natural born Citizen which is explicitly designed only for the presidency by the framers.

My husband is a soldier and we were stationed in Germany at the time of my sons birth. I was told by the US Embassy when we received his American Citizen Born Abroad birth certificate that the ONLY thing he couldnt do was become POTUS.

John McCain was born in Panama to 2 US citizen parents. McCain is a natural born citizen and, as we've seen, quite obviously eligible to be President. Why would your son not be eligible when McCain is? Sounds like the embassy gave you the wrong information.

All three of my kids were born overseas. My sons were born in the U.S. Army Hospital at Camp Zama, Japan, and my daughter was born in a British hospital (private insurance, not on the NHS). Since both of their parents are natural born US Citizens, they can hold any office.

And, by our currently popular standard definition of natural born citizenship, that child would also be a natural born of whatever country s/he was born in, just as anchor babies are said to be natural born citizens of this country.

What it it comes down to, and what the founders intended was declaration of allegiance.

56
posted on 03/09/2013 8:39:27 AM PST
by mylife
(The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)

I think a constitutional clarification or amendment is needed to cover those circumstances where a person was born to American parents overseas who both were there temporarily and had no plans to be ex-pat. To deny such a person a right to run for president simply because of the temporary locale of the American Citizen birth mother and father really is choking at gnats and swallowing camels.

“wow, so if I am on vacation while pregnant, say I am in the Bahamas chilling on the beach, and my baby comes early, my baby is not a citizen? Just want to clarify....”

Maybe, maybe not.

I could be wrong, but I think that in a case such as this (child born to American parents on foreign soil) there are certain actions the parents must take in a timely manner in order to establish that the newborn is to be regarded as a “natural born American citizen”.

It may involve going to the nearest American embassy and filling out some paperwork, nothing more.

But again, whether or not the newborn gains full “natural-born” citizenship may not be “automatic”, but rather established by the actions of the parents in a timely manner after the birth.

I welcome correction from others in this forum.

So the $64 question is — was specific action required by Ted Cruz’ parents required to establish natural-born citizenship after his foreign birth, and (if so), did his parents take such action in a timely manner?

I think perhaps, FOX has used a sly back door method to shine the light of day on the issue by criticzing “one of their own”. IF the rats take the bait, then it can finally be turned against their messiah......

Not a legal scholar, but I was a military brat and had a number of friends born overseas to both American parents. At the time, we all understood they were ineligible for presidency. That is how we were taught the rules on eligibility.

Now, I was born in the U.S. to an American citizen (over 25, with family ties predating the Revolution) and a legal U.S. resident (but not yet citizen), and I had never heard I was ineligible until the last few years. (Funny, because my mother’s country won’t give me citizenship.)

Too many people have somehow gotten it into their heads the laws of the US apply to every other country, and they don’t.

IIRC the US is one of the few if not the only country in the world that makes you a citizen simply by being born in the country.

Just like some countries don’t recognize a woman as having the right to pass citizenship to the child only the father does. In that case the mother not being an American citizen would make no difference since by the laws of her country she couldn’t pass citizenship to the child.

So saying a person is or isn’t a NBC isn’t as open and closed as everyone thinks it is.

It depends on the laws of the other country as to whether or not the child is a citizen of the country.

His father being from Cuba was more than likely stateless at the time so he couldn’t pass Cuban citizenship.

If Canada doesn’t make you a citizen simply by being born in the country, then his citizenship would fall to his mother only.

“If you were to have asked people 7 years ago who de Vattel was, only about 0.5% of people might be able to tell you, ...”

Yes, and a sorry reflection of our times that is. I’d bet that all 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention knew exactly who deVattel was, had studied his works, and had a singular understanding of the term that’s meaning is in dispute today.

IMO, SCOTUS has let the country down by not interpreting the Framers’ meaning and intent once and for all. And, if that interpretation doesn’t comport with the sense of the nation today, let’s amend the Constitution to eliminate the words ‘natural born’ from Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5. End of dispute.

But the hypothetical should be asked - since Cruz has said that he was born in Canada, what would happen if he all of a sudden the year before deciding to run for the Presidency started saying he was born in Hawaii instead - and posted online a forged Hawaii COLB, followed by a forged long-form, and when a SOS asked the State of Hawaii to verify the facts of Cruz’ claimed Hawaii birth the HI state registrar would not verify those facts?

This constitutional crisis was deliberately ignored by the media on behalf of Obama - whose British father’s allegiance was the reason for the Founder’s diligence.

Consider our 21st Century conundrum - what do we do in the future when the child of a LGBT couple has rented a womb - purchased an embryo of an anonymous egg donor and a prolific sperm donor?????? Parental citizenship - conception and place of birth are left off the birth certificate!!!

I think Ted Cruz is great and Marco is OK. Don’t get mad at me because they are not eligible to run for President. Neither is Bobby Jindal and I like him too. But guess who is eligible? Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, Ken Cuccinelli and Scott Walker.

If the Supreme Court wants to take on the issue of NBC and put forth a new definition then fine I’ll be happy to abide by it but the last time they took on the issue in 1870 (Minor vs Happerset) they ruled born in the US of two US citizen parents.

A willing cabal from both sides of the aisle got together in 2008 and allowed Barack Obama to illegally assume the Presidency. He is a perfect object lesson for the reason the framers made the NBC requirement. They wanted to make sure that no person with any possible allegiance to another country or entity would become President. Obama perceives himself as a citizen of the world not the USA. His allegiance is to the UN and the rest of the world not America.

But you can cheer up because my personal belief is that the same cabal that facilitated Obama will also allow Rubio to run for President in 2016 and they will not allow Cruz for reasons that are easy to define if you are a conservative.

81
posted on 03/09/2013 8:52:10 AM PST
by Georgia Girl 2
(The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)

My response was to those who look at the constitutional eligeability clause and want every American president to be born in a log cabin hospital in the middle of the American heartland with the American flag snapping crisply on a pole in a fresh spring breeze and military Jets flying over head at the exact moment the doctor smacks the baby’s rump!

It’s not an issue of US Citizenship - it’s NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP, which was DISTINCTLY referenced in the US Constitution for ONE and ONLY ONE issue - Qualification of ANYone to be POTUS.

No one is saying a baby born abroad to a US Citizen is not a US Citizen. BUT, if they’re not born on REAL (ie the 50 states or territories) US Soil or Virtual US Soil (ie military base or diplomatic premises), then they ARE NOT a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN and hence are NOT qualified to be POTUS.

Fox is incorrect, to be a natural born citizen your parents must be citizens and you must be under the jurisdiction of the USA at the time of your birth. So the question becomes was Cruz under the US jurisdiction at birth? In the case of McCain (and all US service members overseas) the answer is easy, Yes. In Cruzs' case the answer is not so easy, a good argument can be made either way. So Fox declaring "No" is a bit premature. My inclination would be to say Yes if your parents (both US passport holders) were just temporally over seas (tourist, visiting relatives, business) and No if your parents were living abroad.

Honestly, we used to know things. No, really. We did. We Americans used to be a smart, skilled and educated people. I'm not kidding. You can't tell by looking now, but that was true once upon a time, in a lost reality far, far away...

88
posted on 03/09/2013 8:54:45 AM PST
by GBA
(Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)

Marie, I was told the same thing. I knew someone born under the same circircumstances (except a French hospital), and she was even given dual citizenship! They might have changed the rule now for McCain, but this is what we were taught growing up.

Good point. Let’s see what happens with this situation. I am particularly interested what Sean Hannity’s response will be since he declared Cruz a ‘natural born Citizen’ the other day despite being born in Canada to a Cuban father.

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