Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Actually, I should send you some replays I have of HuK and Kiwi using hallucinate vs zerg. Basically, they toss down hallucinated collosus when they retreat and they have them lag ever so slightly behind the real ones. Corrupters swoop in for collosus kill, stalkers snipe a corrupter or two for free.

And Adel Scott loves to use hallucinate to make void rays vs terran to tank viking shots. Makes a standard two base timing attack with three collosus the stuff of nightmares.

Streltsy you can't really compare direct times like that. You have to factor in other things like tech tree (time, cost, etc), what it does to your build if you choose that path, etc

For Terran, getting Ghosts is as easy as a Ghost Academy. For Zerg, it's harder as they need to go Lair (what Zerg doesn't get Lair anyway) -> Infestation Pit. Protoss have to go Twilight Council -> Templar Archives (and then research storm!) BUT, going TC first often precludes going Robo or Stargate

No you can't, I agree.

But getting ghosts is not easy, they chew up tons of gas and getting them at even slightly the wrong time in the slightly the wrong numbers can really screw you over hard. I know from experience.

So don't trivialize getting ghosts. Same thing with infestors I'm pretty sure. Every race has gas units they need critically and that spellcasters cut into, I'm not saying it isn't difficult, but it isn't unique.

I'm not sure why Protoss feel they should get instant game-changing spells on warp-in while the other races don't have that. Especially when you consider storm is arguably the most powerful of these damage-dealing spells in the game (due to its incredible synergy with FFs and collosi, and it's area denial). You can effectively hold off tons of crap right after losing a huge fight by warping in a couple of templars, where are the T and Z units which can single-handedly do the same?

They're still better than infestors and ghosts as they at least have merge + feedback to use while they're waiting on storm (meanwhile ghosts and infestors are effectively building in the rax/larva).

Man...the problem with HT's and colossi is that they step on each other's toes too much. *snip*

Then they should have nerfed colossi and kept HTs the same/similar. Make the stronger unit the one that takes effort to aim the damage and dies easily rather than the one that is "A-move/back away sometimes".

I'm 100% fine with such a change. They are just too similar as is...they need to differentiate them more.

edit: going off of cork's point, another thing with the change is your templar army will be less mobile because instead of warping in storms at proxy pylons, you have to move your temps around with your army as you charge them

Someone needs to explain to me these numbers. Going from TL's wiki, all three casters have 25+ starting mana upgrades (Until tomorrow). All three spells cost 75 mana. So what's going on with ghosts and infestors that they can't cast right away? Do they normally start with only 25 mana? I've never really checked exact starting mana for anything or done anything like that, really.

You warp in the unit, and you effectively wait for it's build time to have enough energy to storm. Exactly like the other races except your unit is on the map and can feedback/merge while the other casters are building.

You warp in the unit, and you effectively wait for it's build time to have enough energy to storm. Exactly like the other races except your unit is on the map and can feedback/merge while the other casters are building.

Khaydarin amulet should be considered for removal under it's own merits....not for the reason of making the units more similar....aren't you always going on how you can't directly compare units between the three races like that?

Warping in an amuletless templar essentially puts your production on hold while the templar gains energy. You replaced a production cycle that could have been immediately useful with one that is temporarily useless, leaving a window of vulnerability

with terran production cycles, you have to wait a production time regardless of unit choice. Choosing ghost over marauder doesn't create a period of useless reinforcement, you just end up with something different at the end

Why not see how protoss fare without the upgrade in high level play before getting upset! They already dominated the GSL so let's just see how they do instead of stooping to their level and being clowntoss!

Why not see how protoss fare without the upgrade in high level play before getting upset! They already dominated the GSL so let's just see how they do instead of stooping to their level and being clowntoss!

It's not like there's going to be a sudden drop in protoss play, collosi were already the go to unit. there's just going to be a ton less variety. booooooring

Why not see how protoss fare without the upgrade in high level play before getting upset! They already dominated the GSL so let's just see how they do instead of stooping to their level and being clowntoss!

yeah if there was one thing that stood out in the GSL it was mc's amazing high templar play.

For the record...I am not complaining about the removal b/c I think it "nerfs" protoss. They were already OP late game with colossi and HT's. The problem is...the way they are going about fixing it. Colossi are already the go to unit. This is only going to make them even more dominant (most likely.... it certainly doesn't make going HT more attractive). Like other people have already stated...I find colossi dreadfully boring and would much rather see them nerfed into the ground and force protoss to make HT's.

I understand that, but I dont see why not allowing HT's to have insta-storm means they'll never be made. They still have options, it's just that said options arent overtly strong. I still want to see how this will affect high-level play.

Today I was thinking why don't zerg use nydus worm like protoss use warpgate? i.e. get reinforcements into an attack nearly instantly instead of rallying them across the entire map

Late to the party, but I felt the need to respond.

Zerg doesn't use nydus worms to reinforce attacks because zerg doesn't attack. By the time nydus comes into play P and T are too entrenched. What are you gonna do.. run zerglings into their wall?.. try to tank their siege tank line with roaches trying to run up their ramp? Send waves of dudes into lines of bunkers? Get your dumb ass cut in half on their ramp by a FF and picked apart?

The only time zerg attacks a base with non-mutas is a baneling bust (doesn't need worm at all), a roach rush (way too early for worm), or if you already won and have 36 ultras.

I understand that, but I dont see why not allowing HT's to have insta-storm means they'll never be made. They still have options, it's just that said options arent overtly strong. I still want to see how this will affect high-level play.