I can see your wet nose running along the site. Hello. Now that all the votes are in your voting category, please, if doth would, give a brief couple sentence critique of my entry, which received nary a mention among the three judges. I am truly interested in how it came across. Thanks two zillion. This page is nice to look upon, aye. Aleister 12:14 7-2-'11

Hey. As I said in my notes on voting, and Socky also alluded to, there was a very high calibre of articles in this category. The fact that it wasn't mentioned by me was not because it wasn't a brilliant piece - I thought it was fantastic - but because it was not the most accesible concept. Most of the highlights of the article relied upon the reader having a good knowledge of the works of Hemmingway. Now beyond having read Old Man and the Sea - and having a fondness for Absinthe, Rum and Whiskey based cocktails - thank you Papa for introducing me to Sazeracs - I know very little in depth about the man, and only recognize the style of writing due to the several thousand allusions to him in the article.

So, all that being said, Hemmingway's talent was not based on a skill in writing humorous prose. This of course causes some issues in writing humorous prose in the style of. Also what I do know about Hemmingway relates more to his fantastic knowledge of drinking well combined with an almost complete ignorance of the dangers of drinking excessively. (It may not be news to you, but he taught his son to drink like a man at the age of 12.) In fact, I think the work of Hemmingway that I am most familiar with is what has been reprinted in cocktail books.

So, in short, the only failing I can see is the omission of a few derby cocktail recipes. Beyond that it's purely my ignorance of the subject matter, combined with other fantastic entries in PLS, that stopped me from adding this to my top 5. If I could have given a tie for 5th I would have included this in there as well.

I'm in the process of doing full reviews of most of the articles in there - although the scores for the reviews don't reflect my voting in the end. I'm happy to do one for this - it was next on my list - but I honestly don't know that I could add anything further. Oh - except that I would grayscale all the images and apply soft blur to the more modern ones to try and make them look all of the same age. Pup09:59 07 Feb '11

Sorry for the delay as well - I got this message last night as I was going to bed and waited until this morning to give it detail. If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't have put Suddenly, Raccoons in my top five last PLS either for technical reasons, but I did vote for top ten of the year. I will also vote for this on FA when it goes up, but I also know that you will tweak it between now and then as well. Pup10:06 07 Feb '11

Thank you! And jeez haging on his wood, please don't think I was criticizing in any way the rank of the page in the judging, I just wanted to know if you saw huge errors, etc. Because I'd like to work much more on the page, polish it like a fake diamond. I didn't know Hemingway taught his son to drink at age 12 (God help me, I may be channeling Papa H. himself!), and should include an absinthe mention. Thanks for the much longer than I expected answer. I can't wait to get back to the page once it's unlocked. Aleister 22:22 7-2-'11

I think Hemmingway is attributed for te introduction of the Mojito as a fashionable cocktail, which is absinthe, rye whiskey, and other stuff. Web if he isn't it's a very Hemmingway-esque drink. The softer version of it is a Hurricane. There is a saying by the creator of the Sazerac that "Sazerac's are for natives, Hurricanes are for tourists". I honestly couldn't think of a cocktail that is more Hemmingway in style and if I was including a recipe for a cocktail I'd add this but increase the level if absinthe. As for the taste of the drink, it's like being fellated by a golem - hits hard but feels nice. Pup11:13 07 Feb '11

Why'd you decide to create them as actual reviews? Way you're doing it, they show up in the pile to be checked as actual reviews, and nobody wants that. Mind, I ain't going to, anyway, but it's a convoluted enough pile to deal with as it is. 1234~02:50, 8 February 2011

Because the judgeries are actual reviews. I'd like them to be checked as reviews to be honest, but I'll also understand if they're not. Pup02:56 08 Feb '11

You sure? They're not exactly the most... in-depth reviews I've seen, if you catch my drift. 1234~03:14, 8 February 2011

That's cool. There's enough detail in some of them to be classed as full - albeit borderline - reviews, and I'm not fussed if they come back as less than full. The idea behind them was as an indication of what I felt were the high points and low points, while being encouraging and supportive. If they all come back as low quality, then that's what they are. I don't really care too much, but they are sufficient reviews in most cases to warrant changes or nom for FA, and enough has gone into them to warrant them being put in the relevant area and category. Pup03:51 08 Feb '11

Sorry to barge in, but that doesn't really explain the need to mainspace them in the pee queue. Just seems like clutter for something that is usually always done in the userspace. --T​K​F​​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​U​CK 04:02, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

And as for my two cents (check will follow), I enjoyed the reviews and they brought me more insight into the articles. As I recall, some of the lead-ins to the "contest" said that if you entered it would be like having three pee-reviews, so I just saw what Puppy did as a nice but also a normal way of commenting on the pages. They all seem in-depth to me, but I'm not a reviewer. And I guess I get a penny back on my two cents. Aleister 4:36 8-2-'11

@TKF: Because they are complete in depth reviews of these articles, which allows the original authors to place them on VFH when they choose to. They make no impact on the queue of incomplete reviews at all, as they were created and completed at the same time. The issue for Lyra is that as reviews they need to be determined to be complete in-depth reviews - which as I said above she van do with that what she feels is the best course of action, as they were put there for the sake of the entrants into PLS, not for me to get a higher ranking on the PEE thingy.

@Al: Don't have a penny - the smallest I have is AUD0.05, as we got rid of smaller coins years ago. And why is USD such dull colours? Pup08:51 08 Feb '11

What about mac users? Going to shoot the lot of them? 1234~21:27, 8 February 2011

I've tested it on FF 3.6, Chrome 8.0, Opera 10.1, and Safari 5.0 all for PC with similar results. IE 8.0 doesn't give the shadows that I've put in there, but it does show the text - albeit faintly. I've adjusted the tone of the text slightly for a little more contrast. Also tried it on Safari for iPhone IOS 4.0 which also has a similar effect. I don't have access to a Mac to check it on there, and I'm not going to fuss about it too much. Some browsers will include the shadow, and some won't.

Truth is that I wouldn't do this for a mainspace article, but for my talk page I like it, and I enjoy experimenting with CSS snippets when I discover them, so I'm happy to leave it as is. Pup09:51 08 Feb '11

Whooo, okay, good. I'm all for alienating people on inferior browsers, but didn't know where you stood. Cheers. 1234~21:56, 8 February 2011

Actually I like Safari. The only browser I dislike is IE, and eventually I'll get around to looking for a CSS hack that will allow me to really annoy IE users. In the meantime, given this is not going to hurt anyone, I'm happy as it is - although as I said I have tweaked the tone of the text enough to make it more legible when the shadows aren't there. Pup10:03 08 Feb '11

You know javascript, right? Here's an easy one, if only you know what you're doing (which I don't). Could you be a dear and write a function to make the header do this? Or something along those lines, anyhow - basically change some of the css and positioning of the thing so it's more like the thing itself. I tried, but I'm incompetent, or something. What should I have done, anyhow? Nleh. 1234~01:18, 11 February 2011

It's more a CSS thing than js thing. What I did with UnDebate:Is it ever right to restrict freedom of speech? was actually done with CSS, which gives a nice approximation, but the problem still lies in cross platform support. Honestly I appreciate what you're doing, but beyond combination of way we've done - your graphics and a mish-mash of the code - is there anything more that we can do? Besides, I can change my js, but not the sites js. Pup01:32 11 Feb '11

Ignore that last comment - I've just seen what you mean now. I can see that it's possible to do, but not simple. It would mean adjusting the js or the CSS of the site itself. Actually the js would be better, but it would take me a while to get it unto play, and I honestly can't think of an easy way to do it. I'll think about it a while and get back to you. Pup01:39 11 Feb '11

It'd be site javascript tied to the ids used in the header, far as I can figure. If we can get something that works cross-browser and Olipro ever sorts out his IPv6, should be a simple matter to actually put it in the site js, but need to get something that works... I know there are ways to override the css styling through the javascript, pointing it to classes and ids, but I'm not quite sure how to do it. Do you? 1234~02:23, 11 February 2011

Yeah. It's all innerhtml and getelementbyid and the like. It's actually not over complicated, but it takes time, which I don't have in abundance. But I can get to work on this eventually, but not immediately. Besides, I've just given myself a challenge at the moment which will help almost nobody, but it's fun. Pup02:31 11 Feb '11

You could also try telling me how to use the javascript... maybe I can get it to work with specifics after a little instruction? *kitty eyes* 1234~02:43, 11 February 2011

Okay, most of what U've taught myself has cone from www.w3schools.com. They have a fairly complete js referece and HTMLDOM reference. Getelementbyid is what I'd be looking at to change the HTML of the page proper. As I'm currently browsing predominantly on my phone I have no easy way to view a page source (which is something I will have to get around to fixing). I'm guessing there will be an element towards the top of the page that can be manipulated to add in whatever code you line, but I haven't looked at it enough to be able to help. Socky is a gun on CSS and Spike has also done some work with CSS and js before, so they might also have something they could input. The other resource here I'd look to is Spang, although he's not on here as often as he used to be. And there's also www.tizag.com as snotty resource - it often is a little clearer to undersand then w3schools but harder to navigate. Biggest problem is that you need to add in a div right at the start of the body of the HTML, which I would do by telling it that when the page title includes "UnDebate:" at the start to include this in there, which would be a text manipulation of the title field. Also keep in mind that this probably would die on mirror sites as well - not a big issue, but some people seem to care about that. Pup02:56 11 Feb '11

I formatted that the way I did because, in a properly (or, in my case, close to properly) formatted script, it's not just an issue of how far things are indented on the left margins, there's also limits to how far things can go on the various right margins. Now all the dialog, which before had been (relatively) evenly spaced relative to both margins as should be the case, well, isn't. I hate to do this (I imagine doing what you did must have been both extremely time consuming and a royal pain in the ass), but I'm going to have to revert all your reformatting. Sorry. :-/ —UnführerGuildyRittervonGuildensternenstein 17:20, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

I take your points--thanks for eloquently explaining all that, by the way. I played around with that webtool you linked me to: at 800xwhatever, all three options look like crap; at the 1280xwhatevers all three look basically the same and just fine; and from about 1440xwhatever up the option I did looks the best, I feel, as the margins remain consistent, whereas the other two start getting fuckedy. I'm going to keep the formatting the way it is now (which is to say the way I had it originally), but I want you to know that I did weigh the alternatives you suggested and gave the issue of changing the formatting consideration--after all, I want my piece to look as good as possible. Also, I'm going to think of a way to work that image you left into the article somehow. Thanks a lot, Puppy. —UnführerGuildyRittervonGuildensternenstein 01:25, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw Lythirya's use of that pop-up thing in Fuck ChiefjusticeDS--it wasn't in template form, though, and though I wanted to use just the code in my UnScript, it didn't work given the article's formatting. If she ever gets that to work, though, I'm totally going to use it. Also, you should totally vote for my article (unless of course you have major unaddressed reservations, which would be understandable obviously). Yeah. —UnführerGuildyRittervonGuildensternenstein 06:46, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Puppy, you mentioned that there is a way to sephia or black and white an image on a page. As you pointed out, on the Hemingway LV page there are a few of the pics where that would work well (not on all of them, but the opening pic, the one of the slot machine, and Paris Hilton would be good, and Paris Hilton in sephia like the famous pic of Hemingway would be the funniest). Is there a code someplace I can steal? Thanks. And I like your defense of the Star Trek article. Aleister 13:19 14-2-'11

I was thinking 'chopping rather than code. Easy option for that would be to load it into a site like this as it already has a function to convert to sepia. Pup09:00 14 Feb '11

Would you do me a favor, pretty please with Katie Holmes on top, and sephia the Paris Hilton pic? The others can stay as is as long as Hilton gets sephied, which would play off the famous Karsh Hemingway pic nicely. Thanks if you can, and thanks if you can't. You still get Katie Holmes on top. Aleister 1:51 15-2-'11

Thanks a million Puppy for the really nice words on the PLS competition. Was nice to hear an overall good review of something Ive written, would be the first time infact ;) in the last 8 months. I was gonna just let the article go but Ill take a closer look at it and refine it as best I can. Thanks again! --Shabidoo 21:40, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

No problem - it was well deserved. One of the things that I like about this site is that while we all do parody/satire, within that general umbrella there's a gigantic range of styles we can use. I could never write crossbow for example, but there are not that many people who could do what was done with Love. Don't try and change your to e to fit in with the majority here - you have a valuable talent. Instead work on what you have got in your style to make tithe best it can be. Guildy never apologizes for the way he writes, neither does Soggy, Hype, or Al. You should be equally proud of the way you work. Pup10:15 14 Feb '11

I yornked a way to disorder the order of a review table. It uses an acronym string for the order and a subtemplate for the sections. Surface-wise, looks the same as anything else, though, and easy to set a default string... think anyone would notice if I shoved it up the butt of the main review table? *shifty eyes* 1234~02:42, 15 February 2011

Notice, possibly, but I doubt it would be an issue as long as it defaults to standard template unless otherwise specified. Also if you can do it full width as well - which was my beef with the olde style - that would be brilliant. My breakdown of prose to various subsections can be done as a separate template and incorporated in - just if I want to go down that track still. Oh, and I like headers as they make it easier to navigate through lengthy ones, but that's your call. Pup06:28 15 Feb '11

The full width is a little more difficult... or rather, stupid, considering how tables don't work in parsers. Or do you know how to get them to work? Besides just hiding them, I mean... because a not stupid solution would be nice to have around in general.

Not that I wouldn't go for the usual stupid workaround; it's just... stupid. 1234~01:54, 16 February 2011

This is actually a pretty good game. I love how you force the player to use their items in bizarre ways (crumpling the letter into a ball and lighting it on fire with the torch to throw at the monster in the kitchen was my favorite). I was planning on making a fighting game using ASCII graphics, but didn't get too far and the end result was eventually deleted. If you're interested, you are welcome to help me out. Dark Ermac 18:26, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

ASCII fight? My fault - it hadn't been touched for a while and it was incomplete ad looked abandoned. Concept is solid, but from my recollection of it it needed a few tweaks. First thing is ASCII graphics are not as easy as you would expect on this platform. I have gone over this not long ago with Socky, and there was some discussion on his talk page about the best way to do them. Using <pre> or indenting with spaces works but has some major issues. Also to really do this well there should be some random elements and some score keeping type elements involved. Coding for that is not too complex - actually did something along those lines with {{3Dig}} recently. But I'm helping to throw code at you as much as you like, but I am also trying to get back to some of my own writing at the same time, as well as starting a new job, so time is limited. Start sketching out in your userspace and I'll come and have a look at it in progress. Pup08:39 15 Feb '11

Hey. I'm just asking, but I was thinking of making an article on My personal best game ever, I have read and re-read HTBFANJS, but I was thinking of making it in the style of one of those "Wacky socialist Country" articles. I'd like someone to pee review it when it is finished.

Also, could you Please Update and re-upload File:2012.gif, similar to how it was, but without the Space scene. I was thinking of using it for 2012 (Video Game). I would be extremely grateful if you could do this (^_^) .

Not really doing much on PEEing at the moment. I'm going to start writing articles more and maintenance of site a little less.

Not really interested. I created that for a purpose and was then told it wasn't fit for that purpose. You might be able to find a copy of it on a mirror site somewhere but I haven't kept a copy of it myself. Alternatively an admin might be able to hack up a copy for you.

Another one of Wikia's special pages that means very little. I'm assuming it's in some way linked to how often someone edits, as Lythirya and Al are probably two of the most active users on here, and I'm active but not that active, but I'm honestly just guessing. Pup03:13 17 Feb '11

I have decided to just rip the video from youtube, to save you the trouble for an inferior version. Also the Mirror Site's bloody useless, that's why I always back-up good VFD articles in Userspace. - Another n00b 13:44, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

We are pleased to inform you of the result of the Lottery Winners Thailand International programs held on the 21/11/005. You have been approved for a lump sum pay out ofUS$550.000.00 (FIVE Hundred And Fifty Thousand United States dollars).

Due to mix up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep your winning information confidential until your claims has been processed and your money remitted to you. This is part of our security protocol to avoid double claiming and unwarranted abuse of this program by some participants.

Thanks for your review of UnNews:Spielberg presents Stonehenge Apocalypse (Hmm, name got slightly changed). You're right, of course, that this has a lot of inside jokes. I'm a fan of Spielberg and Doctor Who. I tried to put enough references in so that people would at least get some of it (I mentioned that Doctor Who travels through time and space with various companions before I said Spielberg's show does the same), but yeah.

I could use a Doctor Who picture, but I chose the one of Dr. Isaac Clarke because the last source in the article says he got crushed to death. Actually, there was no person in the original photo; the man at the right is actually from a painting I made darker and really, really small, although the proportions to the monoliths are about right. I don't know if you got the Isaac Clarke reference, but he could have been named Arthur C. Asimov....

After reading your review, I thought about adding a second photo at the end--or the beginning? Maybe [1] (this one maybe with the Doctor shrunk so Stonehenge looks much bigger) or [2] or [3] with the Doctor cut and pasted into it . What think?

I got the Isaac reference but not Clarke, but that reflects my reading habits more then anything else. I probably would have used Rodenberry as a surname though. I'd like to see an aerial shot of stonehenge as the doctor screams at the sky - I think I can extract a still from the show if you're happy to wait a day or so. Pup09:38 17 Feb '11

Hey, that would be great. Dr. Isaac Clarke of Oxbridge University (which is a combination of Oxford and Cambridge) is a recurring character that some of us have been working for a few years to get all over the place. We already got him used (although in a slightly different form} in a popular game [4]. WHY???PuppyOnTheRadio 21:52, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Cool. 'net meme, but not a cliche. I like it. As for the image, my pleasure. Have to admit that Moffat is the beat writer that modern Dr Who has had, but the lack of continuity between Blink and the later episodes re the angels is annoying. How can they be lonely assassins who turn each other to stone one moment and then work as a coordinated army the next? And how come if time was restored to prior the explosion of the Tardis does Amy still not remember the Daleks. (Okay, an assumption, true, but the titanic over Buck palace is a hard thing to forget.) But aside from my geeky gripes - psuedo-science fact should never stand in the way of a good story - Moffat is still fantastic. While you're around, I'm trying to get back to some less code reliant articles and more humorous prose. I've started with an in-the-style-of with Scam letter which has taken over the ugly old Scam, but I'm still not happy with it, but can't work out what's missing. The last image doesn't work, and I will change it to a company logo, but beyond that what do you think it needs? Pup01:20 18 Feb '11

I must confess I haven't seen recent episodes of The Doctor. I'm currently in the middle of nowhere and have to pay lots of money to get access to more TV channels which I haven't done because I watch relatively little TV. So I have to wait for public television to catch up, and it's usually a year or three behind. But Doctor Who has long had contradictions. I think even in the early years there were a few different versions of what happened to Atlantis; I don't know how many times the Daleks have been destroyed. And the way time travel itself works has changed through time (pun intended).

As for the article, I think you've got a good start. The difficulty is that real scam letters are so funny to begin with its hard to top them. Yours actually sounds more believable than some of the ones I've seen.

One thing you might want to do is cut the "AS WE ARE HOSTED ON A US SERVER." Many of these have frequent references to "your country" without saying what country that is--you might want to use that instead, sticking in lots of "your country" to make it obviously generic.

Also on "your.address@yahoo.com" most of these I've seen are sent to undisclosed recipient, or something like that, making it obvious they didn't send it to me personally.

I like the misspellings (the real scams do that); I would add more, and also cram words together like they tend to do. They also sometimes get words mixed up. This may be stupid, but maybe, "ALSO, OUR EDITOR IN CHIEF HAS HAD TO FLEE THE COUNTRY DUE TO PERSECUTION BY HIS ENEMAS."

How the heck did you manage the scam link to what seems to be my talk page? I like the effect, even though I found it a litle scary (I tend to get that way when anything weird happens on my computer). What happens if I try to edit it? I'm afraid to try....

An ignorable request you may have missed or ignored above. Everytime I look at The Old Man and LV your idea of making pics sephia focuses right on Paris Hilton, a little bit above the famous Hemingway pic. If you could help make the colour and shading of that pic as close to that of Hemingway's then I'd try to ship you some Cuban cigars (not really, but thought that counts). It would be the perfect visual joke for Hemingway fans (which I'm not). What's ya think? Holy Hemingway's beard it's Aleister! 11:56 19-2-'11

Bugger - forgot about that. Sorry, I'll get back to it sometime today. And ironically I just had a Cuban a couple if days ago, and he also gave me a cigar. Pup09:02 19 Feb '11

Wow, that really makes the piece look prettier... nicely done. Dunno about the joke, but whatever. 1234~07:02, 20 February 2011

I kept the link, just made the text black because I hate emboldened links. Outside of Zelda of course. I was going to yell at you for edit conflicting me, but I just realized that I was on the edit page for about an hour due to Marvel vs. Capcom 3. So...yeah that's cleared up. I also want to know where my article is heading as I have no idea. Seriously none. I only have that second pic because I hate babies and will insult them any chance I get. Jack out. (talk) 02:29, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

I noticed your sig, and it's not impervious - just inflexible. Have you ever though of changing it to something like J♠

And I thought about making the link black, for exactly the same reason, but then thought about it a second time and said to myself It's his article - don't mess with styling on it.. I'd also be tempted to change it to [[White (color)|<span title="White" style="color:black;">White</span>]] as I prefer the way the shorter tool-tip looks. Pup03:01 20 Feb '11

I considered that for my sig when I was making it, I just think the pic has them well spaced and sized. I agree with you on the shortened tooltip though. (talk) 03:33, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Just wandered onto the page, what a change. Thanks for going into the page with so much work. I'm torn between leaving all of them this way and reverting the demon head and LuLu, to accent "Dad's" state of mind during his journey. I'll look at it both ways and see which is better (kind of drab now, but maybe I'm too close to it). And the one pic which works least is Paris Hilton, because of the colour and shading. In my minds eye with no tools to back it up I was imagining your "masterpiece" as being the pic of Hilton with the !!!! in the exact same sepia as the famous Karsch Hemingway below it, with the tone and shading very similar. Would this be possible, by either you or Lyrth? As it is now the connection isn't really made between the two pictures (which is why I thought of only doing some in sephia, others in colour). I appreciate you like no other puppy I've ever seen, and am again mystified at your ingenuity. Cigars will find their way to you. Thanks again! Aleister 10:58 20-2-'11

p.s. Although Lyrt likes them all in sepia. Hmmm. Do you like it like it is or would some colour be better? As I said, I'm too close to it, as this is an article I was procrastinating on for months because I knew it would be a "big" one in terms of metaphors, emotions covered, connections made between wide swarths of human mind games, etc. So I must back off and let nature take its course.

p.s.s. Back again. The Paris Hilton pic you found is very good, on second thought. If it were worked on and brought to the exact colouring and shading of the Hemingway pic it could be a feature pic, at least for discerning folk. How do you like the demon head as red, as an accent of the page? I tried others but they didn't work with the colour as it is now. And one more thing a little later, when I read the page now, and even this editing page, the lettering looks sepia to me. An optical trick. I even checked to see if you had changed the colour. Nice!

The Paris Hilton pic I used as my starting point was definitely my preference. The issue with changing to sepia is that what starts as black ends up as black, but because of the effect the black looks very overpowering. This pose also has more of a come with me big boy feel to it. I did play with light levels a bit with this one - spent a bit of time with it - trying to mimic the picture of Papa, but it was problematic. Paris is very blonde, and the image overall is very light. I will come back to it and have another shot though. I agree that the closer it looks to the Papa image the better the effect.

As for changing images back to colour versions, I honestly don't know. Those two gifs I left as colour originally when I was playing with these simply because they are a little more awkward to sepia-ise, and it just felt wrong. I'm actually really happy with the look of the demon one. Something about a sepia animation is really weird, and te smoothing out of the pixellatuon of the original actually makes this feel like a much smoother look to it. Having said that, this is your baby - try it like this for a day or so, and then come back and experiment with changing the images around and see what happens. Pup08:10 20 Feb '11

Tiz all beautiful. I'm now comfortable with the demon head gif as sepia (or did you mean keep it as red, which I like in some ways better, so either or works), and now Paris Hilton looks like an Islander, tanned and ready. In my minds eye I didn't see Paris as flirting with the two men, just passing them on the street, seeing the scrum around them, and giving them some advice (hmmm, I'll add "she advised" in the caption, see if that works.) Now all that is left is, hopefully, to sepia a feature strip on it when appropriate! Thanks again! Speaking of features, EMC nommed Science Fiction. Damn if I'm not seeing this print in sepia right now! Aleister 22:34 20-2-'11

I finished the first draft of White Lie and thought I would give you the chance to be the first to pee on it if you so desire. (Plus it's a funny image, you peeing on your monitor.) (talk) 07:06, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

What's so funny?

I've just had a quick read through. I'll have to have another read of it later, but it's shaping up well. I'd include the image of the Adipose earlier in the piece, and there are a few other things I'd work on. The idea of the "easy way" isn't very clearly defined, and that should be worked on as it is a major part of the whole. Also there should be a bit more of a parallel between white lies and other things. That last sentence makes no sense outside my head, but I was thinking in terms of a self-replicating virus, or a drug.

The first lie gets embedded, which creates a sense of comfort in the mind of the liee (opposite of liar), which is an minor increase of the level of endorphins. However this feeling is fleeting and as the endorphin levels drop the nodes of thought engage and doubt is created. This draws the level of endorphins down again which leads the liee to look for more white lies to seek out the artificial stimulus of the original lie, and that creates the lie seeking question ("Does my bum look big in this?", "Do you really think I'm prettier than her?"). This creates the propagation of more lies, and thus the cycle continues.

(AA has a bit about the cycle of alcoholism that could be twisted into this fairly smoothly. I haven't looked the details up on it for a while, but it's worthwhile.)

Also just realised that thought in Koinea Greek is - as far as I remember - skepsis. That would make the nodes of thought skepsis nodulus or something, which when these are engaged the liee suffers a state called skeptical.

Confusing science that has a rational base is fun. The way I came up with the above stuff is started from the known, and worked backwards to the erroneous conclusion. Also, if these live in the mind then the only way to view them would be to place a section of the living mind under an electron microscope. So far attempts to cut a living human mind into segments that can fit on a microscope have failed as - while cutting up the brains of volunteers - they appear to have died. Attempts to discover how a human can stay alive without a brain are in process, ad we eagerly await the results of the Justin Beiber fan club pre-mortem experiments. Pup10:18 21 Feb '11

Thanks a lot for the help. I didn't use anything word-for-word but a lot of what you said inspired me to change stuffs. I changed endorphins to dopamine, because, if I remember correctly, dopamine provokes a stronger pleasurable reaction than endorphins. I also added the part about looking at the brain for the lies (although I made it brain scanning turning people into zombies, I think Justin Bieber fans make fun of themselves) but I couldn't really find a good spot to put the Greek. I'm not really sure where else the adipose picture would fit, but I do like having it at the top (but there isn't really much of a joke there then) and I think I need a better first picture. Portal is so 4(5?) years ago. Thanks a lot (again). (talk) 21:23, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

No probs. I'll have another look on the weekend and see what else, if anything, springs to mind. Also would suggest looking into actual scientific studies into lying and see if anything come out of those that you can misuse in this. There have been a few of these in the past, so there should be something usuable. After all, scientific studies into this kind of thing tend to be created by academics looking for sinecure, so whatever they come up with is sure to have quirks. Pup01:24 23 Feb '11

HELP! HOW TO GET OUT OF THE FUCKING ATTIC IN ALONE IN THE DARK?--JordonOng 15:30, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

I know a set-up for a vaudeville joke when I see one, no matter how grammatically incorrect. I say, I say, I say I don't know. How do you get out of the copulating attic when alone in the dark?Pup07:56 22 Feb '11

OMG, leik totally, that attic is such a copulating thing, like so... er... I mean... *hides* 1234~20:06, 22 February 2011

I'm not sure about something so I have to ask you. I'm thinking of doing a userspace award called "Sucker of the Week" (Sucker being a pun on Lollipop). The award is given to the funniest ban of the week (excluding IP's, unless it's a really hilarious ban). For example, recently I saw a banned user that added in big letters: RUB SHIT ON THE WALLS. Or stuff like that. Yes or no? --Lollipop-CONTRIBS-WRITINGS-SHOP-Now adopting! 21:01, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Not too sure what you mean. If you're suggesting something similar to From our logs that appears in USP then I'm all for it, although I'd probably call it Burn of the Month or something similar, as the vanity thingy is always a potential issue. (I'd never suggest a puppy or bitch of the month, for exactly that reason.) Of course, something that was mentioned a while ago (I think it was Dex who suggested it) was extending that concept to cover revert edit summaries as well, as there are some good burns in there as well.

If you're suggesting an award for the individual banned and what they've done to earn it, or what they've done as revenge, then hells no. Doing anything that brings attention to page blankers or other vandals just gives them the attention that they seek, and as with any time you create an award you create competition. I don't want to encourage competitive vandalism.

Main thing is that awards are there - usually - to encourage positive behaviours on the wiki. Encouraging users to revert vandalism and admins to ban vandals is definitely a plus, and that I would support. I'd also suggest throwing the idea on to a forum before putting it into place - doing this kind of thing without community backing is potentially damaging. Also, it means that you get the interest of people involved simply because there are others who would say "That's a good idea and I will support it.

Having said all that, I would encourage Burn of the month as an idea. Sucker of the Month, not so sure. But I'm just one member of the community. Throw the idea onto a forum and see who applauds. (Remember, even if I don't object, there are others who were less than impressed with Maniac of the Month - some of them have banning capability. You don't really want to antagonize them.) Pup09:28 22 Feb '11

Whoa, thanks for the vote and kind words about The Old Man and LV (I think, unless you are seeing into my soul when you say "the authors" Gulp.). You made the page so much better with the sepia idea. Why? not nom the talking demon head or Paris for Picture feature! Or both. Thanks again. And now, the hunt for food commences. Aleister 14:30 25-2-'11

I don't know that either of them are that impressive outside of the context of the article, and the context is all yours. Pup02:36 25 Feb '11

Context is overrated as a contextual concept. You may be right, though, although I like all of them now. The Paris one is funny with the caption, as one way to explain it is the Old Man is told he's hot by a girl, and he looks up at her and she's totally and harmfully suntanned, and he thanks her and puts on more suntan lotion. lol now. Damn food, can't make itself. Oh, way off topic, but a guy I know was watching some of the old Flash Gordon stuff on Youtube and he says Ming's daughter is totally hot. I'm going to check her out later, but wouldn't that be a great name for a band with a female vocalist, "Ming's daughter" Aleister 14:42 25-2-'11

One of these days, I'm going to expose the massive scam you've pulled of on us poor gamers with Game:Alone in the dark! You and your cohorts will hang your heads in shame when the world finally discovers that all this game does is trap you alone in the dark, in an attic! You people should be sued for the blatant lies posted on the game's talkpage, and I WILL SEE TO THAT! You have been warned. --Scofield 15:54, February 25, 2011 (UTC)

There is a way out of the attic. You obviously just haven't found it yet! Pup10:16 25 Feb '11

Puppy my friend I just wanted to tell you that my article is on VFH and I thought that you, Puppy my friend, want to vote For. for it. Right? It will be my first featured article. Friend. Bye. Love ya. --~ 21:01, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

It means you've brought my attention to it - given that I keep a close eye on talk pages I was already aware, but nevertheless - and I will read the article an choose what to do. If I'm pushed to vote before I've read it I'll automatically vote against, and given there is an accusation of plagiarism - or repetition at least - I have to decide on that before I vote as well. Pup10:13 27 Feb '11

Do it for the puppy

Against? Well, there's no need to vote, then. But think. Don't you want to give someone a smile that will last more than one minute? Also, I have a sick puppy, just like you. He needs the money for the surgery and only a feautured article can give me the amount of the money that is needed. Do it for the puppy. --~ 14:50, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Have you really nothing better to do than troll other users? 1234~21:53, 26 February 2011

Had to visit the link and... well, the best rockroll I've had to date was Never gonna give you up as the backing music for 2 girls, 1 cup. This - which led me to a message asking me to update my flash media player - doesn't even scratch the surface. Pup10:25 26 Feb '11

Any particular reason you're doing that on the same page, and for that matter, on the live page?

Unless, of course, I'm wrong about what you're doing... whatever are you doing? 1234~05:06, 27 February 2011

Because it allows section editing. The page is getting to excess of 32Kb, which means issues when making edits. Section editing cleans up that issue. Honestly the way the page is bugs me, and I'd rather have it work completely differently, but until I have had a chance to put something neater together, this is the best option I can see. Pup06:01 27 Feb '11

Oh. Not what I thought at all... and what good would that do? It's not just adding articles, but moving the user up as the number goes up, and that would still require opening the entire thing, anyhow.

On a separate note, why'd you go for h3s when you could have used, say, h5s while keeping the size basically the same? Or would that be h6s? Either way, Dexter's right about it looking bad, not that that changes much at this point, but... 1234~06:08, 27 February 2011

H5 would be better - I am just so used to using H3 and I didn't consider size diff to much of an impact (about 110%?). But moving is still an issue. It's why I would rather the layout be something like:

Or something along those lines. Of course it can be done as a template rather than having the code all over the place, which is a little neater, but even then it still has problems in how it orders them and stuff. Oh, and as for section editing and moving stuff - I edited the section where mine was, cut the whole lot of it and saved the page, and then edited the guy who I was moving above of and pasted it at the start - 10 seconds work. However, moot point because Dex is being a dick - which is very uncharacteristic of him - about it, so any ideas of trying to improve this have been fucked over and I don't care enough to push back. Pup07:16 27 Feb '11

I dunno; who was being more dickish? The one who reverted because he didn't know what the other was up to, or the one who reverted back without saying? Once you did explain, though, I'm inclined to agree with Dexter on this one... looks terrible, and two edits is a lot more effort than one when you get right down to it, despite the different loading times, which in my experience tend to be negligible, anyway - usually the thing that takes the longest with Wikia is connecting - so not really worth it. But I'm feeling lazy on this one and am inclined to shove all the users onto subpages and set it up as a DPL like VFH (That's what I thought you might have been doing, except sectionally instead of with subpages). It'd still look about the same (there's a reason the names and scores are to the left, you know... otherwise they just meld with the giant blob... giant collective blob...), but sort itself, and one would only have to edit one's own thingy... hmm... 1234~07:36, 27 February 2011

That was the idea, but, honestly, I'm leaving site maintenance and improvements now to someone who can give a toss. Pup08:20 27 Feb '11

But nobody does. That's the problem. See, what we really need to do is start some forum topics about these things, but we need to insult everyone in the process, or they'll probably just ignore them. Unfortunately, once we've insulted everyone, they'll be all insulted and start insulting back, at which point it'll be time for more insults, rage, general dissatisfaction, unpleasantness all around... by which point we've completely forgotten what the forum was about and are actually rather inclined to be fed up and leave the site entirely.

This is posted on the user pages for PuppyOnTheRadio, who was head of IC during this colonization and thus has the actual say, and for Happytimes and Why do I need to provide this? because they respectively preceded and followed Puppy. I think that means Why? fed Puppy while Happy cleaned up after him.

I don't think anyone's the head of IC right now, and technically whoever was the head while SF was being rewritten should decide who gets 1/2 feature credit for the article. Note that it was decided that not everyone who added a line or two would get this, but that everyone who made a legitimate contribution to the article, however small, would get IC credit on the Big Board. Personally, I think IC members who did a lot of work on this after it was moved to mainspace deserve a lot of credit (Pee Reviews by both HELPME and Why? didn't find it at all ready before then).

In addition to the obvious (writing a lot of good stuff on the article), don't forget the following: creating a detailed concept and outline for a previously-featured article gave someone a well-deserved 1/2 feature credit even though that person technically did little actual writing on the article. I would mention that doing a Pee Review and setting up a gallery for an article are part of the work too, but I won't. (Seriously, in my opinion these would not qualify for 1/2 feature credit but could add to what a person who did significantly more than that when figuring if they deserved feature credit).

Also there's that featured article thanks for voting thing I'm really not all that enthused about but it does seem to be tradition here. Puppy I think should have first shot at it, but if he doesn't want to do and no one else does, Why? could. IC Buccaneer AdmiralWHY???(stratagems) 02:42, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

I'm just on my tea break at work, and the above is too damned long to read, but just to explain - IC has stagnated, and I've tried kicking it up again a couple of times with limited success, but I haven't been able to dedicate enough time to it. I'm happy to sit as titular head, but it would be minimal effort on my part. I've been more generous with credit for IC on HOS, as that seemed to be an issue previously, even though I agree with the principle of credit for effort, I can also see a point to credit for influence as well. So in short, I'm taking the path of least resistance. Anyone who wishes to argue on that point will win, as I am not resisting. Pup04:26 02 Mar '11