Was there a "university culture" in the past like there has been in the 20th and 21st centuries?

So the dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism, where your political beliefs are oftentimes more important than anything else. Has this always been the case? For example, in universities in London or Paris in the 18th and 19th centuries, what would have been the overall "culture" or mindset of the majority of the students? Would their beliefs have been similarly extremely progressive or leftist, relative to their own time? Or is that particular political nature something unique to our generation and the two before it?

If Kant's experiences are anything to go by, progressivism has always been common in universities.

10 months ago

Flameblow

is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism

holy fuck, no it isn't. Why do you faggots always repeat this? Have you actually gone to university? The culture is extremely liberal at best, no way extreme left.

10 months ago

RavySnake

I've never been to a university in my life.

10 months ago

CouchChiller

University 'culture' is just young people who have just moved out of home and have just gained access to drugs, alcohol and sex.

10 months ago

DeathDog

The vast majority of people that go to my university still live at home. Then again we don't really have the "college culture" that the US does, with everyone living in dorms and stuff.

10 months ago

CodeBuns

I recall reading something like people cheering up to probabilistic epistemology. They wanted to stick it up to the 'man' since the basic Church doctrine was Aristotelian Scholasticism. Yeah, both sides were clergies. And then there were also Marin Mersenne was the one who kept close contacts with both Descartes and Pascal (among others), pretty much the man behind everything. In the 17th century, not only alternative philosophy like the above probabilistic theory, literal magic studies, atheism and complete skepticism were rampant underground, Mersenne's camp looked pretty tame compared to them (his side eventually prevailed for the better or worse).

There's also the infamous Fraticelli shenanigans in the middle ages that Umberto Eco based his novel from. Also lots of Muslim scholars got branded with blasphemy, heresy or whatever.

So, in general they were even more hardcore than now. College students are pussies nowadays.

10 months ago

Ignoramus

So the dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism, where your political beliefs are oftentimes more important than anything else.tfw my Economics faculty has a right wing libertarian bias and the professors are non stop shitting on the State and the governmentFeels good

10 months ago

happy_sad

So the dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism, where your political beliefs are oftentimes more important than anything elseThe fuck are you smoking?Meme Social studies=/=University Culture.

And it fucking depends.You had these historical examples:And you had everything from fascist student orgs, to organizing protests against commie governments, to anti-war, peace-and-flowers, anti-Vietnam, anti-nuclear, rad-enviromentalist outright marxist gatherings in the 60's.

10 months ago

5mileys

They watch Peterson videos on youtube.

10 months ago

SniperWish

You sound like a middle school dropout who gets his worldview from Veeky Forums threads

10 months ago

ZeroReborn

Hey don't blame him for that. People can't afford the tuition because of recessions.

10 months ago

CodeBuns

Have you been to an institution of higher learning lately? They hold open contempt for the idea of upholding border laws (sanctuary campuses) and speak about Red October as if it were a great liberation, instead of the ruthless Bolshevik dethronement that it was.

If any of my peers knew that I believe in a strong border, let alone my views on tribalism in homo sapiens and race realism, they would lynch me. It's disgustingly anti-intellectual. I'm just getting my credentials and leaving.

I had no trouble discussing any subject in university, right down to the ethics of genocide. I don't know what you're studying or where you attend.

But your post seems to suggest that you can't stand dissenting views in general, so I don't think free discussion is what you're after.

10 months ago

iluvmen

he dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism

this really isn't the case. academia has always been generally left-leaning though, with the exception of (mainly US) economics departments, though that itself has changed since 2008

the dominant culture is bland bourgeois liberalism

10 months ago

Methnerd

I'm attending a tier-2 public university on the west coast. I took a mandatory, introductory 'social science' course in which the professor got in a shouting match with a student about how genetics and race are completely unrelated.

I don't know how long ago you attended, but things are looking pretty bleak.

But your post seems to suggest that you can't stand dissenting views in general

How?

10 months ago

Skullbone

So the dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism, where your political beliefs are oftentimes more important than anything else.And you believe this is the case... why exactly?

10 months ago

Burnblaze

I'm and not OP, btw. I think that might be the source of confusion here.

10 months ago

BlogWobbles

What's your major?

10 months ago

CouchChiller

Well, I don't know the specifics of your situation of course, but from my experience when a first year gets in a shouting match with a professor, the first year is at fault. I would imagine in your case professor was trying to make a point that race as it exists in public consciousness in the US has very tenuous links to the genetic basis of human differentiation, as can be seen in the one-drop rule, "hispanics", etc. Of course it's possible that your professor was a retard, but in the absence of further information that's not what I'd put my money on.

How?

The fact that you seem triggered that some people think that toppling the provisional government and executing the Tsar's family was a good thing. And those people are still very much sane. A few decades ago you would have had unironic Maoists on campus. Intelligent ones, too. I regret not having had a chance to argue with them. It would have been very interesting.

10 months ago

VisualMaster

I'm sure these threads are made by people trying to justify to themselves why they didn't persue tertiary education. Just own your choice.

10 months ago

JunkTop

socialism is beyond extreme

Y*nkoid hands typed this.

10 months ago

PurpleCharger

No the dominant one is one of Social democracy, where high taxes pay for most things If you actually attended a uni you would know this Yes some professors go DRUMPF LMAO now let’s study the Iran nuclear deal in chemistry, but most remain neutral, and yeah I can’t openly say catholic views on homosexuality but why should I, they won’t change yet and they’re good friends Yes people have been kicked off their grad schemes for racist group chats but here’s a tip DONT LEAVE FUCKING EVIDENCE especially with your name attached to it, and you’re 18 now stop being so edgy

Universities have always been centre left for their time, simply because all youth try to rebel against the order and Male their own thing, the hippies became baby boomers, you had the Russian students in tsarism that went to substinence farmers and basically went YOURE NOT COLLECTIVISING PROPERLY COLLECTIVISE LIKE THIS and then either became normal liberals pushing for a more powerful duma or got shot by the Bolsheviks

I had no trouble discussing any subject in university, right down to the ethics of genocide.This.Now, i'm an eastern euro, but you had history professors debating us about the rise of fascist movements today paralleling inter-war stuff, or telling us about how there were a ton of jews in our first commie gov(well, hungarians too, but that's another story)

10 months ago

Evil_kitten

just moved out of homeThis is basically an US only stuff.Universities were always places of progressivism and new ideas (in any political sense) in general you have to take into account that historically the people who went there were the sons of people who have enough money so they don't have to work and that gives, some of them at least, time to read, think and be exposed to different ideologies among their peers/professors.

10 months ago

iluvmen

I'm a mathematics/computer science dual major. The social science course was mandatory for the Honor's program, unfortunately.

I would imagine in your case the professor was trying to make a point that race as it exists in public consciousness in the US has a very tenuous links to the genetic basis of human differentiation

No, she began raising her voice when a per-med girl explained that there is genetic variation between races. I think the student said that prominent medical journals are acknowledging the reason that African-Americans are statistically more likely to have heart disease is mostly genetic. She made this comment after the professor had said something to the effect of: "all races are indistinguishable and interchangeable in a biological sense."

the first year is at faultI'd typically agree, but this was just pure, ideological irrationality on the part of the prof.

you seem triggeredI'm just triggered that they can praise Lazar Kaganovich, but, if I praised Goebbels, I'd be in deep-shit.

10 months ago

Poker_Star

I can't rant about how dem filthy coons are inferior animalsprojecting this hard

I never said anything of the sort, retard. It's no surprise that this is a nuance that went over your head, but one can acknowledge biological reality without voicing hatred or contempt.

10 months ago

Deadlyinx

I'm just triggered that they can praise Lazar Kaganovich, but, if I praised Goebbels, I'd be in deep-shit.Man, if you actually see someone praising Kaganovich, why don't you just tell them "that's as bad as praising Goebbels" and shut them up that way?

Because they are Marxists by default, not by way of intellectual inquiry. They have been brainwashed. I don't think the vast majority of them have even read Kapital. So legitimate criticism is usually ignored because it's coming from the political right. What I am trying to say is that making that comparison to somebody who is intimately familiar with Holocaust stories, but has never even heard of the Holodomor, is just ineffective.

Maybe I'm kind of a pussy for being afraid of speaking out, but I don't look at these people like students or intellectuals, I look at them like animals who have been conditioned to think -- and most importantly FEEL -- a certain way about politics. They certainly behave that way, when challenged. If I knew that a dog had been trained to bite everyone wearing an orange shirt, I would typically avoid wearing orange.

Sorry for the rant.

10 months ago

GoogleCat

I don't think the vast majority of them have even read Kapitalimplying anyone has read Kapitalimplying reading Kapital is a prerequisite for forming or holding left-of-centre views

10 months ago

Fuzzy_Logic

speaking about literal Marxistsnot thinking one should read Karl Marx's magnum opus before subscribing to his ideas

You're quick to judge, but slow to reason.

10 months ago

Nojokur

Here's the thing, though... do you actually have rational, logical reason to believe that there are all these hardcore dogmatic Marxists everywhere around you? Or is it maybe possible that you're blowing the reality out of proportion?I was a student at UC Berkeley about 15 years ago it was nowhere near as bad as what you describe. From having been back to the campus recently, it seems to me that if anything it's quieter, less political, and more dominated by business major and STEM types than it was before.

10 months ago

Raving_Cute

political marxism is chiefly defined by economic thought rather than historical materialism and marxist sociology

I don't think even actual Marxists share the man's views on economics anymore beyond some maxims and insights

10 months ago

Booteefool

Cont. That said, I must admit that when I did attend UC Berkeley, I barely went to class. Maybe I didn't notice what was going on. I doubt it, though... I was pretty sensitive to political dogmas even back then, I think. I mean don't get me wrong, the humanities departments leaned leftist... I just didn't notice any sort of hardcore "let's defend mass murderers" type of Marxism, like what you're talking about.

10 months ago

Sir_Gallonhead

In Germany in the 19th century the universities, and especially the "fraternities" (Burschenschaften/Studentenverbindungen) tended to be liberal (in the original sense of the word, not the current mangled American definition) and nationalistic, wanting the unification of all Germans. This tended to be the trend for all middle class and educated people. So I guess universities tended to be "progressive" even then, although according to the standards of their time, and certainly not leftist.

10 months ago

MPmaster

Or is it maybe possible that you're blowing the reality out of proportion?

It's possible and even probable. I suppose I'm just paranoid because there is a definitely leftist hegemony in academia, and dissidence is not welcomed for the sake of inquiry. The handful of instances like I described earlier have made me very weary of even engaging in conversation. Even cordial disagreement was met with open disdain, in regards to leftist politics, so I just keep quiet.

I was Libertarian and maybe slightly right of center, when I started college. This environment has definitely pushed me further right.

10 months ago

King_Martha

theres marxists and theres """MARXISTS""!!!

10 months ago

haveahappyday

but one can acknowledge biological reality without voicing hatred or contempt.

Maaaybe, but in 99% of cases, it's like people that want to talk to you about White privilege a lot.Might be regular people that actually wanna have an honest discussion.Highly likely he's some fag obsessed with identity politics, with dubious sources and really weird views on people, pushing an agenda.

10 months ago

5mileys

extreme leftism and borderline socialismwhat did he mean by this

10 months ago

takes2long

definitely leftist hegemony in academia, and dissidence is not welcomed for the sake of inquiryDoes it matter whether it's welcomed or not? As long as you're cordial, if you're met with hostility, you're not doing anything wrong. I mean, I guess there are risks, but I don't know if there's anything serious for you to worry about. Might be, might not be.Personally, I've only very rarely encountered hostility when questioning leftist dogmas, and I know a lot of progressives. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not gonna go talk about race realism to some thug on a street corner. But with people who have normal civilized manners and aren't sociopaths, I haven't had much trouble. Basically, I just make sure to make it clear that I'm not a Nazi and that I'm against political violence, and I speak calmly.

Not the guy that posted it, but I found the article was actually very interesting and if you bother to check out the author it clearly it's not just some random retard's blog post.

10 months ago

Evil_kitten

Who knew that being intelligent has a correlation with not being a reactionary.

10 months ago

King_Martha

implying lefties don't get emotional and react

10 months ago

takes2long

Are you being purposefully dense? Yes. Not every Marxist is an economic Marxist, but this doesn't excuse them from reading Kapital and the manifesto. They are still idealogues and their ideology was formed chiefly through tbese works, so they certainly have a mandate to at least read them.

You seem to be confusing the ideology of Marxism with the practice of Marxist History. Again, you shouldn't get to claim that you're a Marxist simply because you agree with this view of history.

10 months ago

PackManBrainlure

against political violenceIronic.

10 months ago

TalkBomber

Why?

10 months ago

PackManBrainlure

From the perspective of most non-cosmopolitan Americans, a university would be extreme left.

Now you might say that they skew right, and that is true, but that's the problem: the culture of academia has gone so far outside the bounds of middle America that they are starting to view each other with contempt.

10 months ago

Burnblaze

okay what are your views on 'race '''realism''' '

10 months ago

CouchChiller

So the dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism, where your political beliefs are oftentimes more important than anything else. Has this always been the case?

Yes considering Western Universities descended from Medieval universities which were UTTERLY INVOLVED IN THE DISCUSSION OF THEOLOGY AND LAW THAT IT TIES THEM TO POLITICS.

Ironically the idea that universities ought to be "politically neutral" is a fairly recent university culture, brought about by -surprise, surprise- 19th century obsession with "hard" sciences applied on fucking everything.

So the dominant culture of universities/colleges now - at least in the majority of Western nations - is one of extreme leftism and borderline socialism, where your political beliefs are oftentimes more important than anything else.Not really. Colleges are the places where the nutjobs gather, but that's just because it's where young people full of idealism and angst gather if they have enough money to waste their time indulging themselves. It's not indicative of college students at large, nor of what professors actually think (which generally is not given to know, since it would be wildly unprofessional of them to let their political leanings show).For example, in universities in London or Paris in the 18th and 19th centuries, what would have been the overall "culture" or mindset of the majority of the students? Paris was overrun by illuminists in the 18th century, while it was divided between conservative catholic revivalists and "socialists" in the 19th.London was pretty conservative through both centuries, but whigs (in their liberal laissez faire social darwinist leanings) were a large minority.

10 months ago

Lord_Tryzalot

Who is this guy? Yesterday I saw a black chick reading him at a train station. From the look of her I was assuming it was Christian inspiration, which is what people usually seem to read in this neighborhood, but it was this dude whose face I see bouncing around this board. It definitely seemed to be a self-help sort of thing.

So what's the deal with him?

10 months ago

idontknow

He's a hack who chose to ignore 200 years of sociology in the erroneous belief that he was the first to wonder what are the psychological and social roots of religion, and the implications of religion on society and morality.He also pretty much started with a thesis and set off to prove it, and all his work of full of confirmation biases.

10 months ago

TreeEater

He appeals to the lowest common denominator of logic. He uses simple "if > then's" and uses facts anyone can google. He's the layman's sensible archetype. Look at him with his hand on his chin, just like Sherlock. And those suspenders, wow! What an academic. I'm not bashing him, more people should be sensible like he is. There is a gap between gender and pay, but there's a sensible reason for it. He's the logical one that says that instead of dawning their favorite Trump hat and shouting "There's no pay gap!!!" Because there clearly is. Numbers show on average men make more than women, even at the same job. But righties love him because yes, there is a good, sensible reason for the pay gap. He is literally the middle ground between the mouth breathing Trumptards and the dyke with short purple hair.

Ideological differences lead to conflict and eventually "pathological atrocities" like gulags and concentration camps because reasons. I'm not summarizing the whole book (well the one book of him I read anyway, I'm sure he wrote others), but essentially babby's first look at dualism, so charged with pointless rhetorics and weird justifications it was borderline unreadable.

10 months ago

Fuzzy_Logic

That sounds pretty dull.

10 months ago

girlDog

allowing women equal representation in the workplace is moral equivalence to the gulag

10 months ago

Methshot

On this we can all agree, but on what grounds does he stake this out?

10 months ago

Burnblaze

He suggests that the patriarchy doesn't exist, because the gender pay gap is actually a natural phenomenon (ie, a patriarchy)

10 months ago

BlogWobbles

Oh lordy, is he one of those guys who thinks it's explained by the few months women might maybe at some point take off work to have a baby?

10 months ago

PurpleCharger

so charged with pointless rhetorics and weird justifications it was borderline unreadable.You've provided nothing in the way of actual critique, which is frustrating because you seem eloquent. Please explain yourself.

10 months ago

Lunatick

no he says that multi varied analysis proves the wage cap doesn't existPatriarchy doesn't exist because lobsters use serotonin as well

10 months ago

takes2long

Most so-called left leaning individuals of my generation are all for political violence.

10 months ago

Gigastrength

most individuals of any generation are all for political violence

10 months ago

Burnblaze

y-you tooThat's not a response.

10 months ago

StonedTime

it isn't a response, it's an observation. i'm not

10 months ago

eGremlin

No because back then universities had open doors, there was no such thing as tuition, and there was no such thing as "plagiarism".

10 months ago

Emberfire

Ah, I see

10 months ago

StonedTime

Those wacky Canadians and their Jungian Archetypes.

10 months ago

Inmate

a lot of students in the interwar period were hardcore fascists, especially in romania, france and germany from what i know

10 months ago

BunnyJinx

never attended uni - the thread

I went out about a week ago with a few female art history students (by that I mean art history - where all the leftists are supposed to congregate, y'know?).They started literally shittalking and ridiculing Third Wave feminism and medievalPOC (the tumblrina who alleged Kingdom Come was not 'diverse' enough), and they did that without my input.One of them went as far as to say that the American law on how a woman can frame a man for rape, if she doesn't want to continue during the intercourse and he does, is total bullshit.

Stop taking your information from /pol/ and Jordan Memerson.

10 months ago

Booteefool

I believe that races are different in many ways, including differing IQ ceilings. They also have many other physiological differences, which are the genesis of most differences in *culture*. I also acknowledge the tribal nature of homo sapiens and the natural, ethical desire to be with your own people and pursue the perpetuation of your own people.

10 months ago

WebTool

This is basically an US only stuff.What, no its not. Students living in home is a common feature largely only in Western Europe. In UK, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe moving away from home to study elsewhere or at least to live independently is a clear feature in the studies. But its not like those areas have US style dorms and campuses.

10 months ago

AwesomeTucker

basing your opinions about race on fucking IQ tests

learn basic statistics, and i guarantee you will have your mind blown

10 months ago

Lord_Tryzalot

What makes you think that? I haven't gotten such an impression. I don't know what generation you are, though.

10 months ago

WebTool

that's all you gleaned from my postyou still managed to misinterpret itI actually know more statistics than you do

“The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.”

10 months ago

Sir_Gallonhead

Have you been to an institution of higher learning lately?stopped reading. can't be bothered to read your shitty anecdotes based on preconceived notions based on one institution (if even that). get back to me when you've gone to a few dozen universities and interviewed hundreds of students and teachers

10 months ago

Carnalpleasure

He's generally sensible but he's not a middle ground. He's very much a traditionalist, with bias towards Jungian thinking and modern western culture. And his arguments aren't really straightforward. He makes them sound simple and watertight, but that's by cherrypicking facts. But I suppose that for the layperson, he's 'sensible' because they never really stop to think about subtleties of arguments and ways of thinking in the first place. Still better to listen to him than the extremes I guess.

10 months ago

haveahappyday

a university would be extreme left. and they'd be retarded because left/right dichotomy in america boils down to "anything I don't like is x" rather than having any grounding in political principle. outside the bounds of middle AmericaWhy should we be beholden to middle america's standards? It's not like middle america isn't some vacuous concept anyway that is not always evolving politically and socially.

10 months ago

massdebater

Why should we be beholden to middle america's standards?Because they're the backbone of this society and making them feel alienated from public institutions will lead to the same kinds of social attitudes that led to 1776

10 months ago

Methshot

Because they're the backbone of this societydefine "backbone" and "society". Also define "middle america"making them feelWho is? Media itself is just as responsible as anyone else for this, not the actual "public institutions" (whatever you mean by that)will lead to the same kinds of social attitudes that led to 1776lol. You mean that part of the country that historically and demographically didn't exist at the time of the revolution now has sole claim to the values of 1776?

10 months ago

Raving_Cute

bitch bitch bitchshitty anecdotelefty ""academic""

Always getting mad.

10 months ago

Crazy_Nice

because things evolve, nothing ever isdefine "backbone"

Holy shit. The mental gymnastics these people do.

10 months ago

Booteefool

Yes, Liberalism. Liberalism was an extremely progressive political stance at the time and has resulted in the west that we know and love.

10 months ago

farquit

define "backbone" and "society". Also define "middle america"No, for a few reasons: firstly because I'm not the person you initially responded to and secondly because you know what these mean in the context of my post and you're just looking to attack my definitions. I'm not playing your little game of semanticsWho is? Media itself is just as responsible as anyone else for this, not the actual "public institutions"When large corporate media outlets and government share and promote the same ideals then the two can be viewed as appendages of the same beast. What happens to echo chambers; which a lot of Unis have become; is that they only deepen themselves further ideologically. Ideally if you were to see this phenomenon happening in the public sphere it would be dissuaded by the kind of open discourse provided by media outlets or Universities. Whatever happened to the free market of ideas? If an ideology or idea set is not beneficial in any way, it falls to the wayside. When you try to suppress attitudes and beliefs what you get is a political Streisand effect. But today these kinds of things only serve to deepen the divide between urbanites and middle-class folkYou mean that part of the country that historically and demographically didn't exist at the time of the revolutionYou're trying to put a line in the middle of a continuum where no such distinction exists. You do realize most of White middle America is descended of the American colonists? To say that people are disconnected from the ideals and values of their ancestors since a specific economic class didn't exist in its proper contemporary form is disingenuous at besthas sole claim to the values of 1776?This is what pisses me off about Veeky Forums, you faggots like to put words in people's mouths and then belittle points that were never made

10 months ago

cum2soon

Literally all walls in my university's yard are covered with picture of Che Guevara and socialist graffiti

10 months ago

whereismyname

In Germany, the NSDAP's student wing (NSDStB) actually had better results in university elections than the party itself. E.g. in 1928, the NSDAP got 2.6% in the Reichstag elections whereas the NSDStB received already 11.8%. In 1930, the National Socialists garnered even 70% in the Technische Hochschule Charlottenburg (Berlin).

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