Question about Mini DV Camcorders

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by johnw_cerm@yahoo.com, Dec 23, 2006.

Guest

I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
device, which can be hard to find these days.

I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
is fine, and things do not slow down.

Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.

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<> wrote in message
news:...
>I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> device, which can be hard to find these days.
>
> I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
> under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
> not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
> not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
> conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
> movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
> just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
> VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
> is fine, and things dono not slow down.
>
> Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
> and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
> format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
>
> Anyone have any recommendations?
>

The newer digital cameras in the consumer range has small, densely-packed
sensors. This is done to cut down on weight and size, and to facilitate
still imaging. However, it has a very detrimental effect on low-light
sensitivity. Look for a camcorder with at least 1/4" sensors, and 1/3"
sensors are better. To get really good low-light response, you'll have to
buy a prosumer model, which costs twice your budget.

Though video quality is as much a function of lens and electronics quality
as it is digital format, all things being equal, a miniDV camcorder will
produce noticeably better video than a DVD camcorder.

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Guest

Why is it that my old VHS-C Camcorder (which cost about $700 in 2001)
and still costs about $200 (at Walmart) today records well in low
light?

Its just strange why a older one can do better.

I guess the small size is not always better.

John

PTravel wrote:
> <> wrote in message
> news:...
> >I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> > bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> > device, which can be hard to find these days.
> >
> > I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
> > under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
> > not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
> > not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
> > conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
> > movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
> > just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
> > VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
> > is fine, and things dono not slow down.
> >
> > Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
> > and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
> > format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
> >
> > Anyone have any recommendations?
> >
>
> The newer digital cameras in the consumer range has small, densely-packed
> sensors. This is done to cut down on weight and size, and to facilitate
> still imaging. However, it has a very detrimental effect on low-light
> sensitivity. Look for a camcorder with at least 1/4" sensors, and 1/3"
> sensors are better. To get really good low-light response, you'll have to
> buy a prosumer model, which costs twice your budget.
>
> Though video quality is as much a function of lens and electronics quality
> as it is digital format, all things being equal, a miniDV camcorder will
> produce noticeably better video than a DVD camcorder.
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > John
> >

<> wrote ...
> Why is it that my old VHS-C Camcorder (which cost about $700 in 2001)
> and still costs about $200 (at Walmart) today records well in low
> light?

Ptravel explained that larger imaging chips generally do
better in low light. You likely have at least a 1/3 inch
chip in that old VHS-C camcorder.
> Its just strange why a older one can do better.

Your definition of "better" appears to be good low-light
performance. Alas few (if any?) vendors of consumer
camcorders agree with that. Easier/cheaper to offer
"features" like black & white, "sepiatone", fancy transitions,
and still image functionality. None of which contribute to
the ability to make good video in any way. :-(
> I guess the small size is not always better.

<> wrote in message news:...
>I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> device, which can be hard to find these days.
>
> I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
> under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
> not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
> not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
> conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
> movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
> just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
> VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
> is fine, and things do not slow down.
>
> Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
> and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
> format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
>
> Anyone have any recommendations?

<> wrote in message
news:...
>I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> device, which can be hard to find these days.
>
> I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
> under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
> not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
> not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
> conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
> movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
> just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
> VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
> is fine, and things do not slow down.
>
> Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
> and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
> format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
>
> Anyone have any recommendations?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> John
>

If you were to ask me, I'm not impressed with the overall quality these
little camcorders bring to the table. Check with David about his VX2000. If
it's within your budget snap it up.

Guest

Thanks so much. I guess I'll have to bit the bullet on that feature if
I get a new Camcorder. For know my VHS-C JVC works, but I would not
mind getting a smaller and far more compact model one day. I am also
running out of room for those old hunker VHS-C tapes.

The quality on most of the mini DV camcorders is far superior anyways
(just not in low light).

It also would be nice to be able to connect my camcorder to my
computers and export a video. Can I export them to web friendly videos?

Most of these videos were captured with digital cameras, but a few were
captured with my Palm Pilot. The Kodak Digital camera outputs about
20MB a minute videos which are large downloads for most users.

But the Palm Pilot outputs I think 2MB a minute videos. The quality is
tons crappier, but the videos look as nice as any Camera phone.

If I bought a new Camcorder could I set the conversion settings to
output web friendly videos?

John

Richard Crowley wrote:
> <> wrote ...
> > Why is it that my old VHS-C Camcorder (which cost about $700 in 2001)
> > and still costs about $200 (at Walmart) today records well in low
> > light?
>
> Ptravel explained that larger imaging chips generally do
> better in low light. You likely have at least a 1/3 inch
> chip in that old VHS-C camcorder.
>
> > Its just strange why a older one can do better.
>
> Your definition of "better" appears to be good low-light
> performance. Alas few (if any?) vendors of consumer
> camcorders agree with that. Easier/cheaper to offer
> "features" like black & white, "sepiatone", fancy transitions,
> and still image functionality. None of which contribute to
> the ability to make good video in any way. :-(
>
> > I guess the small size is not always better.
>
> At least not for the imaging chips.

On 23 Dec 2006 11:38:23 -0800, wrote:
>Thanks so much. I guess I'll have to bit the bullet on that feature if
>I get a new Camcorder. For know my VHS-C JVC works, but I would not
>mind getting a smaller and far more compact model one day. I am also
>running out of room for those old hunker VHS-C tapes.
>
>The quality on most of the mini DV camcorders is far superior anyways
>(just not in low light).
>
>It also would be nice to be able to connect my camcorder to my
>computers and export a video. Can I export them to web friendly videos?
>
>Take a look at my video page.
>
>http://www.cerm.info/movies.htm
>
>Most of these videos were captured with digital cameras, but a few were
>captured with my Palm Pilot. The Kodak Digital camera outputs about
>20MB a minute videos which are large downloads for most users.
>
>But the Palm Pilot outputs I think 2MB a minute videos. The quality is
>tons crappier, but the videos look as nice as any Camera phone.
>
>If I bought a new Camcorder could I set the conversion settings to
>output web friendly videos?
>
>
>John

With a mini-DV camera, you'll download the video to your computer
using a Firewire port, using a video editing application; there's
usually one included with the camera. In the editor, you can easily
set the output quality.
Here's a clip from several years back using Pinnacle Studio:http://www.pippina.com/images/f117-1.wmv
Studio will let you set the output from full frame (720x480) down to
some small file sizes that, of course, will make for smaller videos
and poorer quality.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

? <> ?????? ??? ??????
news:...
> I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> device, which can be hard to find these days.
>
> I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
> under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
> not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
> not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
> conditions.
>
Do you possibly mean dvd (+-R or +- RW) camcorders?Because I think that the
DVD RAM format is discontinued.
>It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
> movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
> just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
> VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem.
That sounds strange.I used to have a sony 8mm camcorder and now a sony dcr
hc 32e mini dv camcorder.The former wouldn't record at all under low light,
while the new one shoots excellently under almost any lightning conditions.

> Recording with the light on
> is fine, and things do not slow down.
>
You mean with the built in spot light on?Do you mean with "slow down" that
frames are dropped, or the camera goes to slow shutter speeds to compensate
for low light (I think that sony calls this slow colour shutter mode, alas
recording with ambient light in low light conditions)or do you possibly mean
that the steady shot engages to compensate for camera movement, due to slow
shutter speeds etc.?

> Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
> and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
> format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
>
What do you mean with that?DVD camcorders record at real time, also 1 X
speed.
Digital video is entirely different than analogue.Not only the quality is
dramatically increased (not forgetting the sound quality, too).You can edit,
add effects, menus at will on your computer.

In article <>, wrote:
> I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> device, which can be hard to find these days.

Video capture cards and external analog to DV converters which plug into
the firewire port are not hard to find at all! In fact, with more and
more people wanting to preserve their video tape collection, they are
only becoming more and more available.

<> wrote in message
news:...
> Why is it that my old VHS-C Camcorder (which cost about $700 in 2001)
> and still costs about $200 (at Walmart) today records well in low
> light?

It has a larger sensor (probably much larger) than the current crop of
consumer camcorders.
>
> Its just strange why a older one can do better.
>
> I guess the small size is not always better.

Definitely not in this case.
>
>
> John
>
>
> PTravel wrote:
>> <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>> >I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
>> > bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
>> > device, which can be hard to find these days.
>> >
>> > I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
>> > under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
>> > not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
>> > not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
>> > conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
>> > movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
>> > just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
>> > VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
>> > is fine, and things dono not slow down.
>> >
>> > Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
>> > and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
>> > format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
>> >
>> > Anyone have any recommendations?
>> >
>>
>> The newer digital cameras in the consumer range has small, densely-packed
>> sensors. This is done to cut down on weight and size, and to facilitate
>> still imaging. However, it has a very detrimental effect on low-light
>> sensitivity. Look for a camcorder with at least 1/4" sensors, and 1/3"
>> sensors are better. To get really good low-light response, you'll have
>> to
>> buy a prosumer model, which costs twice your budget.
>>
>> Though video quality is as much a function of lens and electronics
>> quality
>> as it is digital format, all things being equal, a miniDV camcorder will
>> produce noticeably better video than a DVD camcorder.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>

"David Matthew Wood" <> wrote in message
news:...
> In article <>,
> wrote:
>
>> I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
>> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
>> device, which can be hard to find these days.
>
> Video capture cards and external analog to DV converters which plug into
> the firewire port are not hard to find at all! In fact, with more and
> more people wanting to preserve their video tape collection, they are
> only becoming more and more available.

Think I'll use it mostly to do some green screen work or
model table work. That assumes it can be set to run
without taping, and output to my capture card(s).

It has some pretty useful features (including manual WB),
for a $100 camera. I might try setting one up as a surveillance
camera, as well. On a powered pan and scan mount and with
its 20x optical zoom, you could have performance that exceeds
many professional surveillance camera setups costing several
thousands of dollars.

Guest

wrote:
> I have a old hunker JVC VHS-C Camcorder. It does the job, however its
> bulky, and cannot plug into my computers without a Video Capture
> device, which can be hard to find these days.
>
> I played with some of the newer Mini DV and DVD-RAM (Sony and Panasonic
> under $1000) camcorders, and was impressed with the size, however was
> not impressed with the writing speed of the DVD-RAM Camcorders, and was
> not impressed with the camcorders ability to record in low light
> conditions. It seemed to me, that when the light was on, my hand
> movement got slow. Why is this? The Salesguy at Fry's said that this is
> just a issue with digital camcorders. I told him that my old honker
> VHS-C camcorder does not have this problem. Recording with the light on
> is fine, and things do not slow down.
>
> Maybe one day I might get a new camcorder that will work with my ibook,
> and uses Mini DV tapes (as I was not impressed with this DVD-RAM
> format). DVD-RAM Camcorders take too long to write to the discs.
>
> Anyone have any recommendations?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> John

Depends on the make and model of the MiniDV camera. We have several.
A couple are better than any VHS camcorder we have, others are not. We
have one MiniDV that indeed is not a very good low light level camera,
but has other features we like.

As others have pointed out, CCD size is an issue, as is the aperture
diameter of the lens (bigger is better - in other words, the low f/#).
Generally more expensive cameras have better lenses and larger sensors,
but not always. You need to use a lot of resources to really be a wise
shopper/purchaser. Read all the reviews you can find.

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