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Winning the Gingerbread Wars

June 22, 2007 2:20 pmJune 22, 2007 2:20 pm

Rafter tails as seen on a home Johnny, our contractor, built. (Photo: Alison Davis)

Alison was absolutely right when she identified the three big questions we still needed to answer before we could move forward: How much would this dream home cost? Were there logistical hurdles (like unavailable contractors)? Would our notoriously picky town approve what we wanted to do?

But there was a more immediate question. Would our builder, Johnny, sign off on the plans?

This was no small concern.

The last time we showed him a potential design, he instantly dismissed the house we wanted to build as impractically large.

If he found major fault with what we were about to show him, then all the work we had done on the seemingly endless revisions to the blueprints would just have been a huge (and expensive) waste of time.

So we had a lot riding on his reaction. And unintentionally he drew out the suspense by first looking at the floor plans as a potential homeowner would.

“The pantry?” he said. “A waste of space. You don’t need anything that big. And it is going to be inconvenient to get to the roof deck, given where you have put the stairs.”

“Ah, Johnny,” I said, “those are good points. But what do you think? Can you build what we have here?”

“Sure,” he said.

I promptly let a huge sigh.

“But we have to get rid of all this gingerbread.”

“Gingerbread?”

“Yeah. All the rafter tails and doodads you got all over the place,” he said, in classic Brooklynese.

Johnny is from the less-is-more school of building. Left to his own devices he would build incredibly well, but with an absolute minimum of design features. That is the way, he believes, you get the most for your construction buck. He considers details like rafter tails — decorative designs that extend from the roof — to be a waste of money.

To prove to us that the rafter tails would not be missed, he took us on a compare-and-contrast trip of two recent homes he had built. The first house was basically a plain box with no design frills — or style for that matter. We just listened as he described how solid the house was and how great a value.

The next house had similar exterior detail to what we wanted to build. He was expecting us not to notice the difference between this house and the other. Instead we had the opposite reaction: We loved the house with the extra detail.

Then Johnny’s true feelings came out: “I know, but it was a pain in the butt to build.” Aha! There was the heart of the matter. “So, you aren’t saying you can’t do it,” I replied, “just that it is easier not to.”

“Yeah.”

Looking at our faces, Johnny could tell he had lost the battle of the gingerbread. “If that’s the sort of thing you want,” he said with a sad shake of his head, “I’ll work up a price.”

Honestly, I think the “plain box” is a lot more welcoming (or, rather, it would be if the front door were on the ground as it is with the second house — and, yeah, I know about the first-level restrictions). He couldn’t show you any gingerbread-y houses with the staircase entry like you want? Seems like it would be awfully imposing to me.

I actually think the first ‘plain box’ house is much more welcoming and charming than the second one. The second one doesn’t have more ‘style’ it’s just more imposing. I guess the dream of building a cottage has been tossed to the way side?

Your builder sounds like a schmuck. You’re going to have to deal with this the entire time you’re building. So get ready for nine months straight of his second-guessing your decisions and generally being condescending. As long as you hold firm to what you want, and don’t get bullied by his “I’m more experienced than you” posturing, you’ll end up with something you love. Good job standing up to him. After all, you are the customers.

Ok, I’ve never said anything negative about the blog, your house, the plans or y’all…but ditch your moody builder. He sounds like a lazy a$$hole who has too much control.

That being said, the second house was wonderful and it looks 100 times better than the first “box”, so fight for what you want. After all, you only build one dream house. Good luck and I’m enjoying the blog! My husband is very happy that you’re writing it, because I’m coming around to the idea of a beach place for us now.

Johnny sounds like a good builder. He knows how to build what you want- you just have to keep reminding him that you are the boss and the architect’s plan is THE plan.

When we built our new home last year, we kept asking the general contractor if he could “add this” or “change that” while we were building. He always said, “sure, you can do that!” We soon learned that he never finished his answers with, “and it will cost you (fill in a very high $$$ amount)this much more.”

Why do contractors think they are designers? A contractor should be happy they have a job and build according to the plans prepared by the architect.

It is good to get the opinion of others during the design process but you have please yourself.

As an architect, I have had clients who will not stop asking for opinions on a project. If you do not stop now you will find yourself asking the gardener what they think of the color of the stone in the master bath. Do not laugh, I have seen it happen.

In the future, when construction starts and you visit the site, be careful. A good response to the standard question, “What do you want to do here?”, that you will get from the contractor, painter, plumber and everyone else is, “To begin with let’s open up the drawings and see what the architect envisioned”.

You paid good money to the architect for the design, stop asking the contractor what he thinks about the design. He is not as qualified as your architect to discuss design issues.

You want a craftsman to build this house, not someone who wants to cut out all the detail. God is in the details. Read “House” by Tracy Kidder. It is a quick read and will give you a very good idea of what is to come during construction and why the good things your architect has put into your design are important and worth not letting the contractor cut out because they take a bit more time. Yes, it costs more. But you want to be happy here and not regret not having the detail you love.

I agree with the pantry though. Tuck one in under the stair to use that instead. It will shave a good bit of money off and use space you already have in the house.

And, seriously, you don’t need all the guest bedrooms. For all the construction, mortgage, utility bills, and tax money you’ll save, you can put your family up for YEARS in a fabulous B&B near you. As you get older, having to clean and service all that space will be more burden than blessing.

I read the blog for the comments, not the posts. I long ago concluded that I have nothing in common with Paul and Alison including their modus operandi. Nor do I understand the ins and outs of building in a tourist beach area since I happily live in the forest on a small island off the west coast. I have lots of experience with the building process. However, the blog does not provide much room for meaningful participation in that area. Or does it?

As a retired builder, I think vallerie and Kate should teethe on a lithium teething ring and attend some anger management classes. It sounds like the builder is using good sense in dropping some gingerbread rather then reducing the integrity of the building,size or other aspects of the design. He gets paid on the work he performs. The more intense the labor the more he makes with less risk . chill a little

Re builder input vs architect: Our builder of 30+ years experience, son of a builder, has lots of examples where he had to correct the blueprints from the architect. This probably varies greatly depending on the architect and the builder. Of course, he also has experiences with architects who were wonderful partners in the process. I don’t think it’s as easily stated a a rule to follow one over the other.

Then, too, even if builder and architect agree on the plans, things change in the field. This is why so many houses do not actually match the blueprints on file with the local governing body — the plans are submitted before construction as part of the permit process. The lay of the land; changes in availability of materials, or conversely, sales available on alternate materials; opportunities not envisioned until actual construction begins; clarification of objectives and priorities when owners can finally visualize better than they could on paper — all these things can lead to changes in the plans.

So I would definitely include my builder as well as my designer in the planning process.

Re builder/owner dueling visions: I suspect that any reputable and legitimate custom builder can build anything to order. I also know (from friends’ experiences) that a less competent or honest builder can agree to anything and perform what he/she wants.

However, in my case, our builder has such a close vision to ours that we have a synergistic process. We confer frequently, and we rarely disagree. The house is ending up even better than we originally designed, thanks to this understanding and compatibility.

I don’t think it is necessary for contractor and customer to be so compatible. And I agree with those who advise that you stick to your guns for what you really want. I just think it’s easier if you and your builder are closer in view. I also think that if you pay for an expert’s opinion, you ought to listen to it. If you find that you don’t, can’t or won’t listen, then you have the wrong expert for you.

The “plain box” looks much more attractive. I don’t understand where the extra detail is supposed to be in the other house. Which by the way, looks bulky and monolithic, an example of how building all in one plane makes a house look actually like a box.

That said, it is silly looking to have two staircases on the front of the “plain box” house. If someone can’t walk ten feet, they aren’t going to be able to climb those stairs.

Anyone should have a builder who is craftsman, but such a builder would be wasted on your house, give your damn the neighbors build a monster philosophy.

Your builder should be a valuable resource during the design process. He or she can advise the owner AND the architect on costs and durability of different materials and methods. What he should not be doing is “cutting out gingerbread details” and assuming that he can or should change the design direction of the owner and architect.

Even in the best of partnerships there are problems and issues to deal with during construction. You do not need someone who is a contrarian even before the building has started.

Also, in the grand scheme of imposing three story house that looms over the neighbors – is it too late to consider pulling back the two-story volume to the back of the property and keeping the front area one story (over the garage/flood level)? This probably means significant backpedaling on your designs but you know what? It’s only paper. You and your neighbors will have to live with the house for many decades to come.

If the street-front scale of the house could be brought down to read as a 2-story it would improve your design tremendously and you will ultimately like your house more and better relationships with your neighborhood and community.

I would appreciate a builder that gives input. He’s the one with the experience, after all, not the client and maybe not even the architect with that particular region. And for what it’s worth, I also prefer the “plain box”–though I would call it “classic” not “plain”. The other seems sort of imposing and unfriendly.

Couldn’t agree with you more. The plain box is just that; some hideous track home with no character. Think about another contractor. This guy seems better suited to building the suburban houses from hell.

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They've found an idyllic tiny town in Florida, they've bought a piece of land and now Paul B. Brown and Alison Davis are setting out to build their dream house. How hard can it be, they wonder, even though they live 1,500 miles away, they've never built a home before and they don't know anything about architects, builders, local zoning laws or financing? On this blog for Great Homes, they recount their successes and failures and will chronicle their adventures to come.