Keith said:

“These articles tell us that women are selective just because they have a risk of being sexually violated or having their reputation tarnished. They don’t mention that even if these factors were removed, hypothetically, women would still be much more picky than men and have higher standards because they just find fewer men physically and sexually appealing. They are just predisposed to find fewer men attractive. That or maybe nature just creates more ugly men than women. This is the root of the conundrum.

“In casual sex encounters, men are generally a lot more friendly, courteous than women. The women have a lot more leverage, they usually get to decide when where and how. Men are more insecure about their ‘performance’, They are more likely to ask her number for future (it’s usually up to the woman to decide if she wants to do it again). Women are more likely to kick a man out of bed after its over.”

John said:

“Let’s think about this, most women spend their days taking care of their appearance. They worry about their weights and body shape, so they are dieting.They taking care of their hairs, using hair treatment products to make their hair looks smooth and good. They go to hair saloon. They taking care of their skin using various body lotion, moisturizer, body scrub, etc. They like go shopping and searching for nice clothes which will make them look better. Men? Lets admit it, most of us do not taking care of our appearance and we don’t know how to dress.

“And you complain how women think most men are not physically/sexually appealing? I workout, taking care of my appearance, and I find nice fitted clothes. And I have receive many compliment from women (and men) about how good my looks. Its easy, if you want women to find you physically attractive just work for it.”

John D said:

“Since men are saddled with the majority of burden to put themselves out there and initiate, quiet introverted girls can and do get indications of interest from men. What sounds like a human issue is really just a female entitlement issue. The social burden for men to risk being rejected puts women into a position of entitlement and control.

“If I went through life getting daily indicators of interest and messages I was desirable as most women do, I would be very entitled and picky too and never settle for ‘just sex’ but would feel I could screen for only GREAT SEX. Especially if I was getting indicators of interest about every 40 minutes (as even plain women do).

“When men are entitled we are called on our bullshit. When women are entitled, men are told ‘You’re doing it wrong. Here’s how to re-define yourself to fit into the average entitled women’s narrow mold of a necessary mate for GREAT SEX (since women don’t need or want ‘just sex’ like men do).'”

Most of the women I see posting seem to bring relationships into this conversation totally breaking subject with “casual sex”. Are we forgetting what the OP’s question was. And that the answer is yes. I think much can be accomplished if we stayed on subject. Lots of good things being said nonetheless but mostly off topic.

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Kat

4 years 6 days ago

I think this whole issue of bringing relationships into the conversation is indicative of the reality of looking for casual sex. To me casual sex and a relationship are two distinct things. To some people casual sex is initially no strings attached sex to be followed by a relationship. I know I run into men like that and men I know into casual sex run into a lot of women like that. Those men are then branded pigs. I’m branded a slut. But the reality is (at least for me) I’m open and honest about my intentions from the get… Read more »

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Kat

4 years 7 days ago

Back in my gloriously more attractive years of my life (when I was tiny and cute and had that young ditzy thing going on) my boyfriend and I would go out and pick up people together (open relationship). Spent a lot of time at parties and bars and what not doing this on the weekends. He was a male of above average attractiveness according to societal standards in the US. He was also quite charming. He still had to work to get a girl to go home with him. And I honestly watched him go through a lot of girls… Read more »

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Archy

4 years 7 days ago

Yep, and that is the privilege many are talking about. Men have to work harder to get casual sex than a woman.

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Soullite

4 years 9 days ago

The problem isn’t just bias, it’s the way that bias is dealt with. When nature hands women a raw deal, all of society is expected to contort itself in ways to mitigate the rawness of that deal. We lower strength requirements for physical jobs when women apply to them. We construct entire welfare schemes that apply only to women and their children. We institute child support systems to help women that are ‘abandoned’ by men. Men are told, repeatedly, to be less shallow, not to overstep our boundaries, never to do anything that might make a woman uncomfortable. When men… Read more »

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Keith

4 years 9 days ago

They dont even let us have ‘paid sex’ as an alternative because it hurts the sensitivities of the common women and it ‘destroys families’ .

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Jman

4 years 11 days ago

A complex question, but guys ease of getting sex generally increases over time, and for pure casual sex the availability of single women 30 + (and birth control) has done wonders for the chances of getting laid with little to no strings or hassles. If one’s lucky you can end up with booty callable friends with benefits for months or years on end. I also find that increasing knowledge (Game, PUA, Ladder theory etc) and technology such as Blender, personals, craigslist and texts are great at facilitating casual sex. etc. One could argue that men are generally less fussy about… Read more »

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Jman

4 years 11 days ago

Another thing that is improving the landscape is that women desire, expect, and are allowed to have a sex life and sexual appetite these days, so regardless of how picky and “hard to get” they play, some guys will end up being its 11 o’clock on Friday night, and your “Mr Right for Now”.

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Nistan

4 years 11 days ago

I am starting to wonder if the difference between women and men is not in the genes. I think that if we guys thought about girls we would think in grays. Most girls are basically a maybe. Girls see guys in black or white, yes or no. This goes on because we guys are the ones that approach. I wonder if we would switch roles for a month. As a test, if we guys would become as picky as women? We probably wouldn’t see our self as picky either. The best thing for us guys is just stop fighting it.… Read more »

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Mr Supertypo

4 years 11 days ago

I admit I never had to much trouble finding sex. But I know far to many guys who are frustrated in this, who cant even get close to a woman without getting turned down. Sex isnt a easy thing to find, no matter what the media tells you. Its hard work, if it was easy there want be any prostitutes, PUA’s, dating coach’es, hairdressers, maybe even clothes would be out. And whoever tryes to squeeze male privilege into this, is totally off road.

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KKZ

4 years 11 days ago

I have very little experience with casual sex vs. monogamous relationship-sex. For a while I’d read articles about it and say Hmm, that sounds like it could be fun in the right situation; were I single, I might consider it. But by now I’m pretty convinced that the whole idea just isn’t worth it. Between PUAs and Nice Guys(TM) and Creeps and Picky Bitches and Double Standards and Friends With Benefits and now Marketplace Bias…it just seems like a whole lot more trouble than it’s worth, and I’m having trouble understanding why any man OR woman even wants to set… Read more »

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Archy

4 years 11 days ago

Trust issues, polygamous people who don’t want to stick to monogamy, not ready to settle down for a relationship. Don’t forget that many of those issues also exist for relationships too, it’s hard enough getting casual sex but probably just as hard for men to get a relationship.

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Alice

4 years 11 days ago

Solution? Get a hooker. Problem solved.

It probably is harder for men. Men seem to be a lot less picky about who they have sex with and what they find attractive. I would say women want to have sex with someone they like or to gain something while men flat out want to have sex. Men could just save themselves all the trouble of trying to find sex by getting a ‘pro.’

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Bay Area Guy

4 years 11 days ago

Solution? Get a hooker. Problem solved.

I don’t know what country you live in, but here in the States, it’s not exactly an easy thing to do.

However, perhaps feminists should keep this in mind. If they’re tired of unwanted male attention and advances, maybe they should lobby to legalize prostitution.

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Archy

4 years 11 days ago

But that’s illegal in many areas and there are quite a few articles trying to assert most are forced into the life against their will somehow which doesn’t sit right with me. It’s legal here so hopefully it’s better but it is one issue that holds me back from procuring their services. Plus there is shame in having to pay for sex cuz you can’t find it elsewhere…

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Alice

4 years 11 days ago

Archy: “Plus there is shame in having to pay for sex cuz you can’t find it elsewhere…” I think guys should be more ashamed of lying and sweet talking women into bed. With prostitution men get: NSA sex variety, as much as he can afford Not having to hear some woman talk about her problems This solves more problems than it creates. ~~~~~~~ “and there are quite a few articles trying to assert most are forced into the life against their will somehow which doesn’t sit right with me.” Some people would argue the same is true for some porn… Read more »

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Archy

4 years 11 days ago

I generally watch webcam girls and can talk to them but you do have a point. I feel it’s worse for being with prostitute forced against her will than watching porn of someone coerced into it though both are bad. I’m not sure how it’s meant to work though for forced porn, they’d have to be pretty good at acting? The ones I see are all smiles n happiness and are enthusiastic which kinda leads me to believe they want to be pornstars. But I haven’t heard the arguments of women forced into porn anywhere near as often as I… Read more »

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Alice

4 years 10 days ago

I’m not sure how it’s meant to work though for forced porn, they’d have to be pretty good at acting?” Most porn isn’t even good acting. All they have to do is look at the camera, moan, groan, scream. Actually, what porn I have seen i find quite hilarious because oftentimes its so obvious they are putting on a show. Of course, they are going to smile-the director is telling them to. I’m not sure if there’s any element of human trafficking, but they can definitely coerce a girl into doing something she doesnt want to. For example, girl may… Read more »

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Keith

4 years 9 days ago

I completely support legalization of Prostitution.

It’s about time society acknowledges that sex is much more difficult to obtain for men and considers paid sex to be acceptable outlet for men.

I understand that paid sex can never measure up to the sex which is based on mutual attraction BUT its a lot better than nothing at all.

Whats hurtful is that the main disapproval of paid sex comes from women and feminists. Its unfair if you think of it. They dont want us to have this alternative either.

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Alice

4 years 8 days ago

Keith:
My thing is this: prostitution is prostitution. Why should someone get special protection for having paid sex just because its on camera as opposed to a private location?

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Bay Area Guy

4 years 12 days ago

I think the whole “men pursue” model of courtship is what makes the casual sex marketplace biased against men. Think about it. If a woman constantly gets hit on, complimented, or otherwise has numerous men seeking her approval, it’s bound to get to her head. She’ll realize that she can afford to be choosy, because she can easily find a man. On the rare occasion that women have come up to and hit on me, it made me feel like hot sh*t. I can only imagine how I’d feel if that were a regular occurrence. Maybe guys need to pull… Read more »

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Sarah

4 years 9 days ago

Yes. I had a discussion with my boyfriend once where he rented on and on about how much power beautiful women have and how unfair it is. I finally told him, “Men give beautiful women their power. If men would stop treating beautiful women like they are the most special creations on the planet, and their power will disappear.”. He responded, “but we can’t help it, it’s how we are.” Well, in that case, stop complaining, I guess! Personally I also think it is unfair that beautiful women get so much handed to them. I’m an average looking woman, and… Read more »

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Bay Area Guy

4 years 9 days ago

If men would stop treating beautiful women like they are the most special creations on the planet, and their power will disappear.

Well, that’s why PUA’s advocate “negging” as a way to take attractive women down a notch.

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Sarah

4 years 9 days ago

But PUA’s still pedastalize beautiful women. Negging is just a technique. The whole PUA movement is built around the worship of attractive women as the pinnacle of — well, the pinnacle of everything that’s of any value in life, apparently. I find the whole PUA philosophy to be kind of demeaning to men, actually, like men who don’t have beautiful women on their arms are worthless scum.

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John D

4 years 5 days ago

Sarah, I agree there is a lot of PUA theory that isn’t very cool. That being said I think there is a lot of good PUA articles that can teach men how women’s mode of attraction works. Often my wife and I have been laying in bed while I gently cup or caress her curves. It gives me pleasure and makes me feel closer to her. From what I have read women typically don’t fondle and caress women in the same way. When a woman wants to feel a man’s “manhood” she doesn’t literally grab his junk but instead gives… Read more »

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Archy

4 years 9 days ago

I’ve found a lot of women attractive, have wanted to have sex with them but didn’t due to shyness and also many are taken. So you may not be uggo like you think, but there could be a lot of shy guys around, I know quite a few…

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Sarah

4 years 9 days ago

*the power men give THEM

Autocorrect again,

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wellokaythen

4 years 12 days ago

One problem with the marketplace model is that it tends to assume there are only “goods” out there being traded, but no “bads,” for lack of a better term. In the marketplace analogy, any attention is good attention. Having sex is like closing the deal, and the deals are what everyone is after. You either have something in demand or not in demand. In real life, however, there are negative forms of attention, and it’s not just a question of “ones” and “zeroes.” There are also “negative ones” circulating out there. If we’re going with the marketplace model, let’s enrich… Read more »

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Mike

4 years 12 days ago

I used to think that the “casual sex marketplace” was biased against men. Really I was just turning down all of the sex that I was being offered. Imagine that you are a man who is afraid of sex… You can’t admit not liking or wanting sex, it’s un-manly. You definitely can’t admit to being scared. It is much easier to not try, then blame women for not throwing themselves on your cock. I have had a lot of therapy to reduce the effects of my abusive childhood, and now I want sex, and suddenly there are a lot of… Read more »

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FlyingKal

4 years 9 days ago

@Mike: Well, i can only assume you are one of the handsome, i.e. “rich getting richer” guys, then. To be clear though, they don’t offer by saying “Hi I’m Jenny, and I want to have sex!” If they did that, they’d get called a slut . Instead they do things like dance next to you, look you in the eyes and smile, spend all night talking to you etc… And what if noone ever does? That must mean you’re just butt ugly and unattractive then, right? But you are right that women do this. I’ve seen half of soccer teams… Read more »

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Tim

4 years 12 days ago

Sorry Mike that is just warm fuzzy feel good crap that we’ve listening to since ages.

Most men dont get the subtle signals you talk about, that can prompt men to make a move.

Again, Im not complaining. It is what it is and nothing can be done about it. But atleast lets call a spade a spade.

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FlyingKal

4 years 9 days ago

@Tim:Most men dont get the subtle signals you talk about

Do you men “don’t get” as in “don’t understand”, or as in “don’t receive”…?
Because there’s an ocean of difference between the two, and quite frankly I think most men don’t receive the signals you are talking about at all.

“Most men dont get the subtle signals you talk about…” Seriously? Consider all the other stereotypical domains in which men are supposed to be able to notice incredibly subtle signs: fishing flies, game tracks, poker tells, speed traps, parent’s opening the garage doors, the difference between grilles on a ’57 vs ’58 Chevy, etc? I know some people have more ability to detect those things and others don’t (for the most part I don’t.) But here’s the important difference, based on what I’m hearing here: most guys understand that fish go for different flies, that deer leave tracks, that poker… Read more »

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Keith

4 years 11 days ago

Figleaf

96% of women might be interested in men. But a much smaller percentage of men. I agree with Tim that this is just feel good crap, people shove in our faces. I’m gonna repeat this, women are attracted to fewer men, while men are attracted to a much larger number of women.

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Archy

4 years 11 days ago

Because men are raised in a masculine stereotype relying on verbal communication more than body language for certain things. Not many seem to teach men what women’s body language is like so (and same for women) so you get a shitload of arguments that can be solved partially by reading men are from mars, women from venus books which seem to describe the gender roles decently. Women often mistake actions men do, ever seen the argument occur when a woman starts saying things she thought the man said and he sits there clueless as to how she read into that?… Read more »

Hey, can I nominate Mike for the next Comment Of The Day?
He hits a lot of very good points.
fl

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Archy

4 years 12 days ago

“Instead they do things like dance next to you, look you in the eyes and smile, spend all night talking to you etc… Then you have to make a move.”
Sure, and some who do this are only interested in being a friends if anything, hit on them and get that awkward discomfort after she’s rejected you. Hell some may be offended if you were asking for casual sex. Trying to guess what she wants based off body language isn’t all that great…

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Alice

4 years 11 days ago

Whats wrong with friendship? I wouldnt mind just being friends with a guy.
Honestly, I’d rather a guy be upfront and honest rather thing sweet talking me.

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Archy

4 years 11 days ago

You realize I’m talking bout how confusing it is for him to decode her actions, not saying friendship is bad? That the actions can mean she wants to be friends, or she wants to fuck his brains out and he runs the major risk of fucking up a potential friendship if he goes for the romantic route and if he sticks to friends he also potentially misses out. Being upfront would be nice, I’m pretty nervous to do that myself though. I tended to shy back vs get in the game when younger, and now that I am a bit… Read more »

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Mike

4 years 10 days ago

One of my best female friends is a woman who I have hit on. She said no, and we didn’t have sex. We are still good friends. If you read the signs wrong, it doesn’t matter.

I think women respect you more if you are honest and open about what you want.

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Chris Anthony

4 years 12 days ago

Mike you make a very good argument as to why someone who once needed therapy to come to a place of healthy sexual desire would have thought the marketplace was biased against men. That viewpoint however neglects to consider the majority position that men with standard healthy (uncoached if you will) sexual desires have. It’s beautiful that you have come into a personal reconciliation with sex, however this personal reconciliation reflects your personal thoughts. I don’t know many men who expect women to “jump on their cocks”. That attitude is quite laughable indeed. What we are talking about is how… Read more »

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Bay Area Guy

4 years 12 days ago

The love marketplace in general is biased against men, whether it’s casual sex or dating.

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Aya

4 years 11 days ago

“The love marketplace in general is biased against men, whether it’s casual sex or dating.”

I don’t believe so. The casual sex, probably–but not love. Men are very cruel to women they don’t consider ‘marriage material.’ Whether they’re not conventionally attractive enough, have had too many partners, or have any sort of imperfection that they find important–even something as silly as liking the color pink too much. Women can and do get broken too.

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Keith

4 years 9 days ago

Aya

Yes women can and do get broken. But they are totally unaware about how selective and shallow they were when they chose the men who broke them.

Women’s lament reminds me of Goldilocks. She sits in many chairs to see which one is most comfortable and fits perfectly, but the one she chooses, breaks.

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Keith

4 years 11 days ago

Aya Why is it that women’s magazines, online forums, expert advice, and their grievances center around problems women face within relationships? “How to not fall prey to jerks” “How to KEEP Mr Right interested” (once youve got him in bed) “How to get out of an abusive relationship” “How to spot a predator” “1 Million ways to please your man” Its because attracting men, being attractive to men, getting male attention, getting men in bed, has never been a problem for the ordinary woman. It has never been a problem for women to attract men and initiate relationships. Their concern… Read more »

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Alice

4 years 10 days ago

Keith:

“has never been a problem for the ordinary woman. It has never been a problem for women to attract men and initiate relationships.”

Do you really think it’s that easy for a woman to get a relationship?
If men really want to have all this casual sex, I’d switch places if I could!

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Keith

4 years 9 days ago

Yes Alice, I think its easier for women to INITIATE relationships, although the average woman will not consider 8 out of 10 men, who are available to her, good enough for her standards.

Its only difficult for women to MAINTAIN relationships and SHAPE them the way they want them to be.

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Alice

4 years 6 days ago

Keith:
Since its so easy for women to initiate relationships, how do you think guys would respond to me if I walked up to them and said:
“Hey, wanna be my boyfriend/husband???
Not well at all!

Also, you are not taking into account how difficult it is to have a relationship with a man that’s not based on sex. I’ve known women who’ve gone years without seriously dating, bc either their wasn’t chemistry or guy just wanted to get it on.

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Archy

4 years 6 days ago

I’d laugh at the approach but if I liked you I’d say we can see how it goes and go on a date, and if I didn’t I’d probably say no thanks but try that guy over there as I know he’s looking? Don’t mention the husband part though, say you wanna go on a date instead.

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Alice

4 years 5 days ago

Archy & Emulator:
I highly doubt it would work, especially if it was clear that the objective was not sex. I doubt most men want to be asked out *romantically* by women, but I think it could be a fun experiment!

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Archy

4 years 5 days ago

Well you have 2 guys saying they’re ok with it. I know many guys who would be fine with it, the only problem is saying marriage which sounds like you’re too fast and could pressure the guy but for dating it’s fine. There are a lot of men, especially shy men like me, who would be more at ease if we were asked out for a change. Ladies, get off your asses n start asking guys out!:P

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Alice

4 years 3 days ago

Archy: I think one thing guys should realize is that if women start asking men out, doesnt mean men in general will get asked out! lol go on a date, and if I didn’t I’d probably say no thanks but try that guy over there as I know he’s looking?” O lol. If i asked out a guy, and he said no, there’s no way I’d ask out another guy. I’m cool with leaving alone if I dont get the one I want. It would be unwise to assume that I’d be hopping from one man to the next, like… Read more »

“Since its so easy for women to initiate relationships, how do you think guys would respond to me if I walked up to them and said:
“Hey, wanna be my boyfriend/husband???”

It might be a better idea to give him your phone number or ask him out first, so he has a chance to get to know you… If you do that I guarantee you most average guys would respond positively.

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Alice

4 years 6 days ago

Sorry, the last comment was for Collin

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Alice

4 years 8 days ago

It depends on what kind of relationship. If it’s sexual, yes its easier for women. Other than that, its not so easy.

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Collin

4 years 9 days ago

Yes, it really is that easy. I know zero women that want to be in a relationship that are not in one and I know many MANY men, including myself, that want to be in a relationship, are actively trying to get into a relationship, and are having no success.

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Collin

4 years 11 days ago

Absolutely dating. How many men have you asked out on dates, Aya? I don’t even know exactly how many hundreds of women I’ve asked out on dates. Guess how many relationships I’ve been in? I gigantic zero. It’s not fair to compare the problems people face later on in relationships — which is probably evenly split between men and women — and ignore the fact that men have an infinitely harder time getting to the relationship stage than women do.

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JE

4 years 13 days ago

“But remember, asking bias is only one kind of bias. There’s another kind that totally blew me away when it finally sank into my thick skull: there’s extraordinary but invisible bias against those who are never asked. The person who brought it home for me? A woman who’s screen name was “scarred.” She thought the whole idea that “women have the power” was the bitterest lie on the planet. Because the “power” to say yes or no exists only when one’s opinion is asked. The power to respond to an initiative depends entirely on whether or not someone takes the… Read more »

Well, there is bias but it’s bias in the samples, not so much bias in the results. Consider that the bias isn’t against men, it’s against whoever does the asking. By definition the odds of me getting a “yes” every time I ask is going to be lower than 100% even if I’m Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie. For instance some non-zero percentage of potential asks are involved with someone else, recovering from another relationship, you’re not his or her type in general, or there’s something specific about you that doesn’t work for them this time. Heck, they could even… Read more »

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Keith

4 years 11 days ago

I think we can conduct an experiment.

Pick an average looking young man AND an average looking young woman.
Get them to approach 100 ppl of the opposite sex, representative of population in terms of attractiveness, in a bar/club/social setting.
Compare the success rate

Repeat the experiment with 1000 more pairs of test subjects.
Analyze the results using statistical methods.

If this kind of research is carried out some day by sociologists, I am wiling to bet my life’s earnings on the result that women will have a much much higher success rate

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Erin

4 years 9 days ago

Well first, I don’t think only “average” people’s experiences should matter. What of the experiences of really attractive people or really unattractive people? They are people that should have voices in this discussion as well. Secondly, I actually think you are right. Based on the terms of the experiment you’ve set. However, what do we individually consider success? Is it mearly how many numbers you get? How many dates? How many sexual partners? An actualized relationship? Marrige? Just because you, Keith, are qualifying “success” a certain way in regards to your experiement, doesn’t mean everyone else qualifies it the same… Read more »

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John D

4 years 7 days ago

Erin says: “I don’t consider it very “successful” if a man simply wants to sleep with me. I don’t consider it positive if this is the only exchange a man wants with me.” If your goal is long-term relationships, a man’s first step is generating interest or attraction in any target women. Since at least average women and up have about 80% of men’s interest from making eye contact her first step is who to provide signals that she’s interested and/or to screen for the right man. Changing the goal posts to an LTR, don’t change the game as much… Read more »

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Aya

4 years 6 days ago

“I don’t consider it very “successful” if a man simply wants to sleep with me. I don’t consider it positive if this is the only exchange a man wants with me.” Well said. When a man and a women sleep together, society mostly sees it like this: The man winner of the game and the woman is the loser who gave in. She was dumb or weak willed enough to agree to his advances. And that’s a terrible feeling. I’ve had my fair share of casual sex–not with strangers or true one night stands, but with friends or people I… Read more »

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John D

4 years 5 days ago

So…you’re getting physical intimacy and feel miserable, and men are being denied physical intimacy and also feel miserable. It seems deep down you realize that sex is for you two, but want to paint things that you pay a dear cost for your pleasure, which may or may not be true. Based, on the way I see women dressing going into nightclubs and the growth of the “cougar” theme, I don’t believe every woman pays as steep a price as you seem to be making out. What you say was true in 1960, not now. At least you still walk… Read more »

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ThomasM

4 years 12 days ago

For some women the words “she’s out of my league” are a blow to the gut, and the words “she probably has a boyfriend who could break me in half” are salt in the wounds. But again, the “bias” comes in the form of men who decide for themselves the answer will be “no,” and never ask. Again, creating the hidden bias against those who wait to be asked. Women have a word for men who are out of their league and dare to hit on them: Creep. For every woman who complains that men don’t approach because they think… Read more »

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Tamen

4 years 13 days ago

Consider that the bias isn’t against men, it’s against whoever does the asking.

Who of course are predominantly men.

there’s extraordinary but invisible bias against those who are never asked.

Who of course also are predominantly men.

Because the “power” to say yes or no exists only when one’s opinion is asked. The power to respond to an initiative depends entirely on whether or not someone takes the initiative.

This is of course true, but they still have an option left, namely taking the initiative themselves.

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Manda

4 years 13 days ago

“If I went through life getting daily indicators of interest and messages I was desirable as most women do, I would be very entitled and picky too and never settle for ‘just sex’ but would feel I could screen for only GREAT SEX.” 1. I’m not too sure where these “indicators of interest” and “messages” telling me I’m “desirable” are, but I’d really appreciate you sharing them. If you’re referring to being hit on or oggled, I promise that it doesn’t leave me feeling all that entitled, but actually pretty lousy, more like a very appealing OBJECT of desire. 2.… Read more »

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John D

4 years 7 days ago

Manda says: “1. I’m not too sure where these “indicators of interest” and “messages” telling me I’m “desirable” are, but I’d really appreciate you sharing them. If you’re referring to being hit on or oggled, I promise that it doesn’t leave me feeling all that entitled, but actually pretty lousy, more like a very appealing OBJECT of desire. 2. Are you suggesting that people should ever settle for “just sex”? Just because someone has standards as to who or what comes in contact with their body, does not make them “picky”. It makes them an independent human with basic judgement… Read more »

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Chris Anthony

4 years 7 days ago

This..
All of this. Spot on. Brilliant.

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john d

4 years 3 days ago

Thanks for the nod Chris. I meant to add (but forgot at the end of my rant) this: Women’s reactions to this news that their mode of attraction and mate selection is just as capricious and cruel as men’s seem to be much much more poorly received compared to the reactions of men who have been force-fed the message over the last 30 years that we are brutes because we only care about beauty. Surprise! Men are not demons, and women are not all suffering saints. We’re all down here in the fugly muck of humanity. Men don’t have a… Read more »

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JE

4 years 13 days ago

“2. Are you suggesting that people should ever settle for “just sex”? Just because someone has standards as to who or what comes in contact with their body, does not make them “picky”. It makes them an independent human with basic judgement skills and personal standards which are none of your damn business.”

I don’t think anyone is saying that anyone should go for “just sex”. Just that a person with the possibility of something more is better of than one who doesn’t.

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Chris Anthony

4 years 13 days ago

When overly concerned about another groups privilege it’s easy to ignore or downplay your own. You’re apalled most likely because you don’t enjoy your privilege,( referring to your opposition to be seen as an appaling object) not because you don’t have it. For instance I know a lot of kids that grew up with money and hated it for their own reasons. It however did not negate the privileges of having that money. Almost none of them chose to wear cheap or tattered clothing or refuse the video games , toys, vacations and expensive educations because they didn’t associate these… Read more »

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Archy

4 years 13 days ago

So too much desire is bad, not enough is bad? Or do you mean desire ONLY for your body and not the rest of you? “2. Are you suggesting that people should ever settle for “just sex”? Just because someone has standards as to who or what comes in contact with their body, does not make them “picky”. It makes them an independent human with basic judgement skills and personal standards which are none of your damn business.” I believe they are saying that women get more offers and thus don’t HAVE to settle for just sex, whilst men’s only… Read more »

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snowflake

4 years 7 days ago

Every woman’s a special snowflake. Utterly unique. Irreplaceable. Unlike anyone else in the world. The One. If you can make her feel that way… you’ll do well. If you let them see how foolish the notion is, you won’t.