It looks like the Catalan situation is coming to a head, whether there is a case for independence or not is debateable, but the handling of the whole affair by the Spanish government has left a lot to be desired. They have never tried to show any sign of goodwill towards the Catalan people and their way of trying to convince the Catalans is by threats such as you will f…ked out of Europe, out of the Euro zone etc…, .
I get the feeling that the Spanish government never really took the independence thing seriously and for years have been passing it off as some kind of joke, which also has been a bit insulting to the Catalans, but now it seems they finally have decided to react using methods that would remind a lot of Spaniards of times gone by
. At the moment there are a number of politicians arrested, the manner of these arrests were embarrassing to say the least, two of the arrested had their cars stopped in the middle of the street and were surrounded by armed civil guards, one in front of her children, it was totally unnecessary , they could simply have notified them or gone to their house, but it seems like a deliberate effort to please a certain radical sector within the Spanish government and media.
Three ferries have docked in Barcelona and Tarragona to house Police reinforcements coming in from all over Spain, at the moment there has not been one violent incident so it is hard to see the need for this.
The Catalans have pleaded with the Spanish to allow a referendum for years now, a referendum that would probably have voted to stay in Spain if it had been allowed in the first place, but the Spanish have refused point blankly, if anything the Spanish government has probably been the single biggest contributor to the independence tendency due to their total lack of movement on the issue and continually ridiculing the pro independence groups.
At the moment the independence parties have an overall majority in the Catalan parliment and you could also add some deputies from the Socialist parties and the Podemos party as neither have really defined their stance and there is no doubt there would be some pro independence deputies in their ranks.
The Pro independence group got their majority on the back of a promise to have a referendum, accepted by Spain or not and the plan is to have it on the 1st of October, it is very unlikely that a proper referendum will be allowed to take place, but IMO depending on the means the Spanish use to stop it, the result of stopping it could have far worse consequences than allowing it for the Spanish government, you cannot turn a blind eye to the millions of people that have demonstrated in the streets on the 11th of September for the last 5 or 6 years, or to a big overall pro independence parliament democratically elected and think you can solve the problem by dramatically arresting a few politicians or raiding printers to confiscate ballot boxes or ballot papers. I hope it does not get out of hand, but I think the Spanish authorities are playing with fire.

It was a cornerstone of the trump election campaign. He wants to keep a list of Muslims, publish their crimes and deport as many as possible. There are sharia law countries already in existence and the vast majority would not advocate a similar policies for Christians.

Homosexuals are being looked up in eastern European states, Russia and there is still huge discrimination in some Americas & African counties. There are also widespread discrimination in European countries like Serbia, Croatia, Hungry & Bulgaria. We can also point 150miles north where the biggest political party is vehemently opposed to Gay rights.

My point being that there are levels of hard line views and we need to be carful condemning someone protesting what are his or his fathers political beliefs. As we know from our own history Locking people up without trial creates extremists.

At the end of the day we are discussing an Irish citizen who was locked up at 17 for protesting, he served longer then a convicted drug smuggler Michaella McCollum. In comparison to how Australia handled a similar situation the Irish government were placid through out.

What are we disagreeing on, my view that its wrong to lock someone up for 4 years without evidence or allowing a trial and your view, which is ?

He was an Egyptian citizen too. In Egypt. We would not accept interference on our judicial system. But we had no qualms trying to interfere in another country’s.

I don’t know the rights and wrongs of the trial. I don’t know what evidence they had or didn’t have. I am prepared to accept the verdict. He likely spent his time in prison while on trial because his sisters skipped bail.

But there are a lot of questions that need to be answered about why he was there, his family’s behaviour throughout the whole affair, their links to the Muslim Brotherhood and their social views.

As an aside being he was 17 his father should at least be questioned about endangering his child by allowing him to go to a country in turmoil.

Australia put pressure on and had their citizen released after 1 year. When a citizen of any country is locked up the government generally use the diplomatic infrastructure to ensure the laws of the arresting country are followed.

In this case Egyptian law was bypassed and Military Court system was implemented by the Military dictatorship.

And bearing in mind what representations were made on his behalf what would you have had the state do?

There is a long standing international principle that where you have dual citizenship and are in trouble in one of the countries of your citizenship you cannot seek assistance from the other. Hallawa not only sought it, he got plenty.

And bearing in mind what representations were made on his behalf what would you have had the state do?

There is a long standing international principle that where you have dual citizenship and are in trouble in one of the countries of your citizenship you cannot seek assistance from the other. Hallawa not only sought it, he got plenty.

Im still not sure what your saying. Do you see no issue with someone being put in prison for 4 years without trail and local courts judicial system being bypassed to achieve this ? You are not happy he is released or that he got consulate assistance so I have to ask generally are you in favour of internment for political protest.?