If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Rupert!

Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane

Although many people think his abandonment of Hermione and Harry in Deathly Hallows was "annoying", I think it was also an incredibly important rite of passage. I think that Ron matures slightly slower than the rest of the group. Hermione has always been very mature, but her change comes mostly in POA, when she breaks various rules in loyalty to her friends. Harry becomes much more mature in OOTP, after Sirusís death.. Ron has always been very insecure: he had to face himself and his flaws before going on. The stabbing of the Horcrux represents his willingness to go beyond his faults, and his recognization that some of his fears (such as Harry wanting Hermione) are unfounded.

You've got it there. In leaving, Ron does a great many things. He sticks up for himself. He forges his own way. He goes against his friend. And, possibly the most important thing- he realises that even after he's left, he can still go back.

Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane

His talent for mimickry is also very interesting. It shows his intelligence and the strength of his powers of observation, but also his desire to be like others.

I never actually thought of that as a metaphor for his desire to be like others. I did see the observation point- it's necessary to be a really good strategist and chess master like he is- but not that. Interesting idea.

Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane

In my opinion, Ron is one of the most abused characters in fanfiction (or else itís just the kind I read, since I donít read too much Ron/Hermione). He fades often into the background in the general fic category, he is annoyingly stupid in the humour categoryÖlet us give Ron some slack!

*nod* He seems to be treated like he is in the movies. Occaisionally, he profers a guilded plot device on the wings of a stupid antic, but other than that he's really only part of the scenery. Harry seems to talk to him as much as he does to trees in my experiance.

It's late, but tomorrow I'll look for some GOOD examples of Ron characterisations in fanfiction. All we seem to be doing is bashing- which is good, I suppose. In its own special way.

Reread the part in DH where Ron destroys the Horcrux. (I'll edit with quotes later.) It [the Horcrux] plays off of his fears of failure and insecurity heavily- listen to the lines like, 'The mother who always wanted a daughter' and 'You are nothing, nothing, nothing to him'. It goes as far to say that everyone is always 'braver, better' than him, if I recall.

Well, yes... but you're kind of proving my point, in a way. Or maybe we agree, I just can't seem to say what I think... tis a problem of mine I don't think that he wanted to be Harry, as in wanting the undying fame for conquering Voldy, the constant attention (good or bad), the (in Ron's mind, we know differently) ability to fight Voldy, Death Eaters, escaped mad men (very smexy ones at that), and whatever was thrown his way. He just wanted to do something that would get him the same attention.

So, therefor, I guess you would be right in phrasing it "Be like Harry".

Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared

Ron is constantly in Harry's shadow. I think that, in immaturity, he wants to be just like Harry. Harry is a symbol to him: a symbol of everything he wants to be and have- Gryffindor bravery, fame, Quidditch skill, and to be noticed, known, and held in renown by all.

Well then, we do agree! I think that, in DH, he finaly "found himself". I think he saw the bravery in himself when he came back, after being a prat. And then he opens the Chamer of Secrets again, getting tons of praise from Hermione and Harry, and during the whole battle he does many, many heroic deeds.

That I think was the best ending for Ron. After seven years of, as you said, living in Harry's shadow, he found the courage in himself to find answers without consulting anyone else. As someone else said, he was known to be the mediator during arguments and mostly keep out of them. When answers were needed, he usualy let the others decide and eagerly agreed when someone came up with something that he... agreed with.

What was Ron's greatest accomplishment in DH? More importantly, what do you think Ron saw as his greatest accomplishment?

Originally Posted by cirelondiel

Well, that's three of the five questions answered for now. And I have one to add:

In PS/SS, when Ron looked in the Mirror of Erised he saw himself as Head Boy and Quidditch Captain - more successful than his brothers. Over the course of the books he matured a lot, and his deepest desire probably changed. So, what do you think he would see if he looked in the Mirror after DH?

I would almost bet all the money to my name (which is about 20 dollars, so I'm not making to big'a risk) that he would see himself and Hermione married. As it's been said before, she was the only thing that could be completely his own. And of course, because he loved her

I would almost bet all the money to my name (which is about 20 dollars, so I'm not making to big'a risk) that he would see himself and Hermione married [in the mirror of Erised after DH]. As it's been said before, she was the only thing that could be completely his own. And of course, because he loved her

I disagree with this. After Deathly Hallows, he dosn't need Hermione to be something he wants, because he already got her. Although he would obviously want to marry her, I think this goal would be reachable to him: in the Mirror of Erised, we mostly see whistful desires that are strong, but which are often (in the mind of the viewer) beyond their capabilites. I personally think he would see his family as whole and happy, before the shock of Fred's death, the loss of George's ear, and Bill's scars.

I will definetly check out some Ron fics and see if I can dig up anything good later on (besides what is already on this thread).

I disagree with this. After Deathly Hallows, he dosn't need Hermione to be something he wants, because he already got her. Although he would obviously want to marry her, I think this goal would be reachable to him: in the Mirror of Erised, we mostly see whistful desires that are strong, but which are often (in the mind of the viewer) beyond their capabilites. I personally think he would see his family as whole and happy, before the shock of Fred's death, the loss of George's ear, and Bill's scars.

I will definetly check out some Ron fics and see if I can dig up anything good later on (besides what is already on this thread).

Good sir, you have listed things that I somehow forgot... Also you make a good point about already having Hermione. I'm going to broaden my answer here.

I think it would either be:
1)Seeing Hermione, because regardless of how, as Candycane said, he might not feel like she's "A brand new shiney thing that's mine, all mine!" (not in his words) he still loves her, and it would be a desire of his to be with her. Maybe not his deepest desire though.
2)

Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane

I personally think he would see his family as whole and happy, before the shock of Fred's death, the loss of George's ear, and Bill's scars.

or 3) His future as an auror or Quidditch player, or whatever he wanted to go on to be.

Although the third one is a bit superficial, I think that there is a good possibility of it. Ron wanted to make a name for himself so bad that having a job that would bring him attention and praise would certainly have been a great desire. He's proved himself, imo, in DH, in being brave -something that he always wanted to be recognized for- and I think after that, he would either want more, or want one of the other two. More possibly seeing his family, though.

Arianna

Edit:I think I killed the thread >.<

Hmm... To catch an intrest maybe... Would Ron have been as self conscious had he not been friends with Harry?

The way I see it, Harry only made Ron's already existing insecurities worse, being "the famous Potter" and all. Maybe if he had been with a group of friends who weren't -

a) Famous before they even entered the school, and throughout the years did all sorts of interesting stuff.
b) The smartest witch in her year.

Maybe if he had been friends with people who weren't so good at their respective things, he would have been able to stand out a little more.

Would Ron have been as self conscious had he not been friends with Harry?

First of all, I don’t think Ron is exactly self conscious (look at his eating habits ) but more lacking in confidence…so I’m going to suppose the question is whether Ron would have still had such a low self-esteem had he not been friends with Harry.

I personally think that Ron had always been a little lacking in self-esteem, seeing as he had all those older brothers he had to live up to and a younger sister who, being the only girl, was doted upon. If anything, I think we should imagine what it would be like if he HADN’T been friends with Harry, but had merely been in his year and known him. I believe Ron would be eaten up with jealousy: after all, he wouldn’t even have had a friendship to take some of the envy away.

Harry also permitted Ron to be more than he might have been otherwise: being the right-hand man of the Chosen One is nothing to sneeze at! Through all the ordeals that they have been through, Ron sees that he is a member of the team, that they need him. Take the chess game in the first year: he wins a significant amount of points for his house AND helps prevent a Dark Lord from rising again (and therefore his self-esteem improves). Then in his sixth year, when Ron becomes keeper, Harry does a lot to help his confidence in his keeper skills.

So I think that, even if Harry is often a source of jealousy for Ron, he ultimately helps him realise how important her really is.

Just to keep this thread moving…
Why do you think Ron finds Hermione so attractive? Her intelligence? The fact that they argue so much? The ordeals they’ve shared?

Why do you think Ron finds Hermione so attractive? Her intelligence? The fact that they argue so much? The ordeals they’ve shared?

Good question - to be honest, I think that not even Ron himself knows. I mean, how many couples do you know, in RL, that say "I love ___ because he/she's so ____"?

Not many - that the sort of thing you get in romance fics, sadly.

There may be certain things he admires in her, but I don't think that there a simple reason for him loving her. I think it probably happened so slowly that he didn't really realise he loved her until sixth year, and even then it probably wasn't a **gasp**I-think-I-love-her moment, more a recognition that he had felt that way about her for a long time.

Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared

What do you mean, he doesn't want to be like Harry?

Reread the part in DH where Ron destroys the Horcrux. (I'll edit with quotes later.) It [the Horcrux] plays off of his fears of failure and insecurity heavily- listen to the lines like, 'The mother who always wanted a daughter' and 'You are nothing, nothing, nothing to him'. It goes as far to say that everyone is always 'braver, better' than him, if I recall.

Well, to be honest I agree with a.h here, but mentioning that scene in DH triggered something in the murky depths of my brain. The Voldy-Hermione said that Ron's mother admitted that she would prefer Harry as a son. Do you think this is true? Is it Ron simply blowing a passing comment out of proportion, or is it Voldemort making it up, trying to mess with his mind?

Originally Posted by cirelondiel

Ron is also a valuable source of information on the wizarding world and culture. No matter how many books Hermione reads, there are some things that Ron takes for granted - like aspects of wizarding childhood - that can't be learnt from books. This comes up in DH, where Ron can't believe that Harry and Hermione don't know the Tales of Beedle the Bard. Maybe that's not so much a talent as luck of birth, but it's still something he brings to the trio (similar to how he also brings something of a foster family for Harry and Hermione).

I agree, and that is both a flaw and a strength in his character.

As already said, this brings in a new type of knowledge to the trio, a knowledge that neither Ron (Harry, you mean?) nor Hermione could really get until adulthood, and even then, it most probably wouldn't be complete.

However, it also means that Ron, because of this happy and wonderful childhood he had, was in for a very large shock in DH. This is a flaw in his character, but a wonderfully strong plot line. Whereas Harry was used to periods of hunger, and Hermione was smart enough to expect it, it totally threw Ron off guard - completly chucked him in at the deep end - and he was unable to cope with it, thereby allowing the Horcrux to get further into his mind and, eventually, walking out.

Upon coming back, however, Ron had matured a lot, and I think that during those long days of staying at Shell Cottage, he began to realise that there was no point trying to be like Harry, when he already had so much more.

Ronald Bilius.

Good question - to be honest, I think that not even Ron himself knows. I mean, how many couples do you know, in RL, that say "I love ___ because he/she's so ____"?

Not many - that the sort of thing you get in romance fics, sadly.

There may be certain things he admires in her, but I don't think that there a simple reason for him loving her. I think it probably happened so slowly that he didn't really realise he loved her until sixth year, and even then it probably wasn't a **gasp**I-think-I-love-her moment, more a recognition that he had felt that way about her for a long time.

It's like this: could you really say why you are best friends with someone? I have no idea why we are except that we are.

I'm sure he loves her for many things, though, subconciously- her strength, all they've been through together, her intelligence. Love is more of a deeper thing, not an obvious list.

Originally Posted by apollo13

Well, to be honest I agree with a.h here, but mentioning that scene in DH triggered something in the murky depths of my brain. The Voldy-Hermione said that Ron's mother admitted that she would prefer Harry as a son. Do you think this is true? Is it Ron simply blowing a passing comment out of proportion, or is it Voldemort making it up, trying to mess with his mind?

Remember how Dumbledore said that Voldemort's gift for spreading discord and emnity is very great. The Horcrux was designed to take your dark thoughts and use them to torture and control you, and this is what it did to Ron. It reached into his mind, read his jealousies and insecurities and whatnot, and blew a huge hyperbole that enraptured Ron. I don't think the Horcrux made it up, but simply took the 'unthought' thoughts from Ron's head (the kind of things you might jump over in you head because they're just too terrible to think of) and put them into fruition; they were made into something he could actually see and respond to.

Originally Posted by apollo13

However, it also means that Ron, because of this happy and wonderful childhood he had, was in for a very large shock in DH. This is a flaw in his character, but a wonderfully strong plot line. Whereas Harry was used to periods of hunger, and Hermione was smart enough to expect it, it totally threw Ron off guard - completly chucked him in at the deep end - and he was unable to cope with it, thereby allowing the Horcrux to get further into his mind and, eventually, walking out.

Ron was COMPLETELY unprepared for DH (as was Hermione, but we're not talking about her). Harry wasn't much better off, but his mind had been conditioned from the weight of the prophecy and the torture/death of Dumbledore, Sirius' muder, Voldemort's rebirth and Cedric being killed, and all that jazz. Ron had had tastes of battle in OOTP and HBP, but nothing to the scale of DH. He had never been confronted with something this huge because he always believed himself to be a sidekick. So, when he's finally doing the 'big awesome thing', he expects it to be adventure and glory. All it really is is sitting in a tent starving while you try to figure out what to do next and how not to die.

So, when he's finally doing the 'big awesome thing', he expects it to be adventure and glory.

I agree - when he returns in DH, he says to Harry, "You make it sound a lot cooler than it really was," and Harry replies, "It always sounds cooler than it really was, I've been trying to tell you that for years."

No doubt that Ron has always imagined Harry's confrontations with Voldemort to be a lot... clearer, for lack of a better word. I think he probably, sub-conciously, expected that he'd have time to think things through, and make the correct choices.

We all know that Ron is a fantastic chess player, so no doubt he has a strategic mind, and when he was faced with simply blundering about the countryside in a tent without any real idea of where they were going, he was immediately thrown off guard.

I think that Ron has this vision of Harry - a vision of a very clever, sneaky, always-understands-what's-going-on Harry, which is only true to a certain extent. So, of course, when Harry was lost, Ron was lost too, as Harry has always been the leader, and Ron was expecting him to lead.

In reference to the "why Ron loves Hermione" question I asked before, I admit it was more to get people talking than anything else. There is obviously no single solid characteristic that makes Ron like her.

But I also think that Ron appreciates the fact that Hermione has her little imperfections. She can be a know-it-all, she can be sceptical at times when it would help to be a little more open, and she is very proud. Ron probably loves these little faults because they make her more like him: flawed, snappy, but in the end an essential part of the Trio.

I also just wanted to point out that Mugglenet has a new editorial comparing Ron and Hermione and their relationship with Harry. You can find it at http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/...pboy1302.shtml. Ron fans will probably rant. You should read it before reading my reaction to it below…

I really object to the idea of Harry having a “best friend”. Harry has TWO best friends: Ron and Hermione. The whole point of the Trio is that each of them complements the other two, each brings something to the team, from Hermione’s intelligence to Ron’s humour, and finally Harry’s destiny. This would never work if it was all about “I’m-a-better-friend-to-Harry-than-you-are”. In my opinion, Ron is also essential to the team because he is the glue that sticks them all together: in Deathly Hallows, Hermione and Harry are not brought together by Ron’s absence, instead, they grow distant, each residing in his/hers own universe.

I won’t say what else I find wrong in this editorial, because otherwise I would be merely repeating what everyone has already said in this thread…I'll definitely participate in any discussions that rise from reading it!
Any opinions on the editorial (or other Ron matters, for that mater)? Do you agree with the authors standpoint? Or do you disagree?