Yes, but only if the Grove rules are overhauled and the Grove given a more specific purpose

50%

[ 6 ]

Total Votes : 12

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:54 am

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ReepicheepMaster

Joined: 05 Feb 2008Posts: 6957Location: Sailing into the unknown

I'm doubtful that changing the topics to current events would solve the problem. I started the homosexuality thread simply to gripe about the word "homophobe", but inevitably it grow outwards from there._________________
Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:07 am

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1080Location: Of Puppets

Avoiding direct personal insults doesn't really do anything to solve the problem since that is not really happening anyway.

What tends to lead to insults:

-People perceive something as an insult that is not meant to be due to the way people are debating an issue. EG, I'm mad about this thing and member X thinks that I'm mad at them.

-People insult group X which member X is a part of and is insulted even though the insult was not specifically aimed toward them.

It seems to be a combination of these two things that leads to hurt feelings.

Honestly some topics are just taboo and you can't really be open minded about because it is an either/or category. With politics some people will be very defensive about their party or ideology, but people tend to vary it on issues and there is some middle ground. With religion not so much, either you believe or you don't and promoting either one is going to step on a pretty fundamental view for most people.

So I guess anything that is a protected status where in the workplace or federal agency it would not be Ok to discuss, especially in a disparaging way, we shouldn't talk about in the MG. Race, Religion, Gender (sex), sexual orientation, medical condition/ ability, veteran status are the ones. Maybe a couple are Ok such as medical condition, possibly veteran issues, but probably not the rest.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:55 am

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Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 4770Location: Korriban

Insults are hurled pretty easily and then ignored by the person flinging them and stated as just being taken out of context.

Discussion is fine, but people believe what they believe. No one gangs up on either side, but neither side budges for the most part. However, even religiously inclined like I am some of the discussions have changed parts of my POV. The MG has been a good thing, but we can't keep from trying to force our opinions sometimes. I would cite several conversations I've both participated in and read but they're there, if you need to read them you all can. But like Reep said viewpoints have been altered by the discussions._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:18 pm

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Dog-Poop_WalkerMaster

Joined: 28 Jan 2012Posts: 1080Location: Of Puppets

Caedus_16 wrote:

Insults are hurled pretty easily and then ignored by the person flinging them and stated as just being taken out of context.

Is that passive aggressive, or a I just taking that out of context?

<-that was a little passive aggressive.

It's also a problem that it's hard to tell if the person responding after you if responding to you or not.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:39 pm

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Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 4770Location: Korriban

Dog-Poop_Walker wrote:

Caedus_16 wrote:

Insults are hurled pretty easily and then ignored by the person flinging them and stated as just being taken out of context.

Is that passive aggressive, or a I just taking that out of context?

<-that was a little passive aggressive.

It's also a problem that it's hard to tell if the person responding after you if responding to you or not.

It was a little passive aggressive, I'll admit it. That conversation we had got out of hand, but its a good example of where things go wrong in the MG. There is a lot of right in there and a lot of varying opinions, but when we begin to disrespect each other personally that's where it falls apart. I think it should stay and its a good thing, but the respect for religious views, personal views, and orientations has to go all ways. I actually agreed in that conversation with almost everything you said, but it was the way it was put to me that bothered me and I had no place saying most of my responses. I allowed myself to get out of hand, and that's why I left the thread. The MG is a good place, its opened myself and others up to new ways of thinking and even changed our opinions, in fact opinions on all sides. We just have to retain the respect.

As to the context things, the 'quote' function works. I wish more people would use it (I say this and I forget to do it a lot as well)._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:42 pm

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Salaris VornModerator

Joined: 02 Feb 2008Posts: 2264Location: New York, USA

Just an FYI for those who haven't checked: the OP has been updated with a poll. I set the poll to last 90 days. Hopefully that's long enough to cover everyone's school or work schedule so they have a chance to vote.

I'll compile a list of what suggestions/observations people have made regarding overhauling the Grove rules and directions as soon as I get the chance (work on my thesis is taking priority at the moment).

In the meantime do you guys have any feedback to the mod/admin staff on what we've done regulating the Grove that worked, what didn't, things we should do but haven't, or things we could do better? If the vote goes to keep the Grove provided it gets an overhaul this feedback will be very useful._________________

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:54 pm

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DannikJerrikoEUC Staff

Joined: 09 Nov 2011Posts: 1236Location: Nirn

Basically I think the Grave is a great place to state your opinion on serious stuff, but beyond that it's not much use. Most of us aren't going to change our viewpoints, and in most cases we shouldn't try to get other people to. I'm an atheist, I don't tell Reep he shouldn't be Christian, and vice versa.

People disagree on stuff, and saying "It's right" "No it's not" "But it is" RTF is pointless. State facts but when you've stated them all and have reached a stalemate, stuff tends to get personal. Haven't seen it much in the Grove actually, but in one of the L&M threads I saw it.

But I think it should stay, with an overhaul of the rules._________________There's always a bigger fish - Qui Gon Jinn.

You shall learn that history is an intricate weaving of many events. No one thing can be understood without the proper context.

The best techniques are passed on by the survivors.

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:43 pm

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Salaris VornModerator

Joined: 02 Feb 2008Posts: 2264Location: New York, USA

Ok I've edited the OP with the rules I've seen suggested thus far. So feel free to discuss whether those rules are good, bad, insufficient or any additional rules you think need to be added. Note if you suggested a rule and it isn't in the OP that means I missed it not that I dismissed it as a bad rule. So either repost it here or PM me and I'll be happy to add it to the list of proposed rules.

and just as a general thing: I want to congradulate everyone on recent discussions in the Med Grove. Everyone is doing a great job in keeping discussions civil and avoiding getting personal. Those of you who want the Grove to stay are doing a particularly good job at backing up your words with actions._________________

I'm for keeping it, but making more clear guidelines. I like the Grove when actual discussion and debate is taking place and people are expressing opinions and asking questions of others, but once both sides have stated their positions and discussed it for awhile, I think the topic should be let go. Just my two cents._________________All things die, Anakin Skywalker, even stars burn out.

Look, we're opinionated people. But let's face it: no amount of debate is going to change anyone's mind on any issue. Once we've made up our minds, they're pretty much made up. This means that the debating will always be circular, because there's no give and take. Yes, sometimes debates do get personal - and I'd like to think that people are smart enough to know when to take a timeout if that becomes the case - but who knows, right?

It doesn't serve a real purpose here, and that's why I think the vast majority of our users don't frequent this section.

I have to agree- Kill it- I mean people will get too busy arguing vs talking about relevant SWEU stuff _________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

I'm wondering if we should have some sort of timer? So that if things get a bit too repetitive, we call, say, three days to finish up the discussion (unless new topics arise or new evidence to support a stance)? Or would that be too much?

Anyway, I'll go back and edit my last post in the Politics thread to include the sources of my oil imports numbers (as well as the numbers from a WHO report from 2000 on the best health services in the world, for anyone who's interested)._________________I am a Star Wars fan. That doesn't mean that I hate or love Jar Jar. That doesn't mean I hate or love Lucas, or agree or disagree 100% with him. That doesn't mean I prefer the PT over the OT, or vice versa. That doesn't mean I hate the EU, or even love all of it (or even read all of it). These are not prerequisites. Being a man is not a prerequisite. Being a geek is not a prerequisite. The only prerequisite is that I love something about Star Wars. I am a Star Wars fan.

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:28 pm

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DancelittleewokEUC Staff

Joined: 15 Sep 2010Posts: 1171Location: Kansas

We could keep it, but have banned topics maybe. *shrug*_________________Observation: Life would be cooler if everyone spoke like HK-47.

KILL IT. _________________-Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass.
-
-To become a Jedi, it is not the Force one must learn to control but oneself.
-
-Podcasts: Star Wars Beyond the Films, The Star Wars Report, & EUCast

I tend to frequent debate/discussion forums and they always follow very specific rules that the Meditation Grove does not. Most importantly, moderators absolutely never take sides in an argument, as was done in the homosexuality thread (for example - legal discussion on gay marriage is identical to racism and therefore should not be discussed). Their job is to make sure their are no personal threats, or over the top name-calling, etc. In the Meditation Grove it has been pretty one sided. In fact, I don't believe certain members were ever warned about calling others "bigots."

To make matters worse, after I personally PM'd both the admin and moderators about my disappointment in the matter, as was asked, I never received a response back even though I have waited patiently for days. Not even a confirmation.

If a debate/discussion forum cannot be run impartially and fairly, then it should not remain open. In light of that I believe the Meditation Grove should be killed.