_________________"In My view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

They are not kidding anyone. If there is no animal research, which is undertaken prior to human testing, the research stops at that point. If it cannot be performed in the UK the research will have to move elsewhere. If that elsewhere does not have the strict regulations for the treatment of research animals who wins? Not the animals, not the researchers, not the medical industry, not the general population, and not the activists unless their only goal is to prevent research in the UK and not to stop research on animal or ensure research animals were treated well.

_________________With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none” Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."Albert Einstein

_________________"In My view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining."- ROSALIND FRANKLIN

My biggest problem with this effort by animal activists is laboratories are going to do the research regardless... the animals are a very low cost item in the research budget. So now these laboratories are going to start their own lab animal breeding facilities and you can be sure the animals born in such a facilities will be treated with less care and respect as a private lab animal company would do and there will likely be tragic mistakes as these testing labs get things set up that would not happen in an established breeding facility. I don't think anyone won anything but the animals will likely lose caring humans raising them.

They are not kidding anyone. If there is no animal research, which is undertaken prior to human testing, the research stops at that point. If it cannot be performed in the UK the research will have to move elsewhere. If that elsewhere does not have the strict regulations for the treatment of research animals who wins? Not the animals, not the researchers, not the medical industry, not the general population, and not the activists unless their only goal is to prevent research in the UK and not to stop research on animal or ensure research animals were treated well.[

So you agree human testing must be done. And why is that? And do you know or aware of the strict regulations the u.k. have and are carried out effictively?

I watched a program once where a female scientist was giving electrodes into a hamsters brain wheron they were 'dispatched' She sardonically give 'it' a name and the whole show revealed 'they' were not animals but 'they' were 'its'.

An it is an object. Animals are not objects. We will pursue far from the uk believe you me.

They are not kidding anyone. If there is no animal research, which is undertaken prior to human testing, the research stops at that point. If it cannot be performed in the UK the research will have to move elsewhere. If that elsewhere does not have the strict regulations for the treatment of research animals who wins? Not the animals, not the researchers, not the medical industry, not the general population, and not the activists unless their only goal is to prevent research in the UK and not to stop research on animal or ensure research animals were treated well.

So you agree human testing must be done. And why is that? And do you know or aware of the strict regulations the u.k. have and are carried out effictively?[/quote]

Yes, human trials are necessary as are the animal tests prior to the human trials. I am aware of the regulations of both the US and UK to a degree.

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I watched a program once where a female scientist was giving electrodes into a hamsters brain wheron they were 'dispatched' She sardonically give 'it' a name and the whole show revealed 'they' were not animals but 'they' were 'its'.

Animals are "its" according the the rules of language.

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An it is an object. Animals are not objects. We will pursue far from the uk believe you me.

Pursue them so they come here. We have extra capacity for such research here now.

_________________With friends like Guido, you will not have enemies for long.

“Intellect is invisible to the man who has none” Arthur Schopenhauer

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."Albert Einstein

Babies are its when the adult does not know the sex. That is by the by. Alot of language is archaic. 25 years ago when I became vegan I had to explain to people what that meant. Now most people know. There is an understanding of the literal meaning now. I believe the majority still have their heads in the sand in making the connection of what they eat and how he/she got there. If they get their skulls risen from the dunes and still continue to eat meat then that is their freedom so long as the law stands at it is.

from the insane jerker, mothy; "Wayne wakes up in gerbil form. He is now against animal experimentation."I am for using animals in experiments before human testing, and I think killing plants is the same as killing animals for food. When we get to Heaven nothing will have to die so that we can live.As far as prison goes, it is illogically expensive. I would like to see a return of more executions, and ones that use torture to give a similar death to those who have done the same or worse to innocents. It is logical to reduce population in this manner during a time of extreme overpopulation. It is also logical to make the punishment so severe to deter the crime. I believe in the death penalty for all three time burglars on up. Mass murderers deserve a long public torture, to hopefully inhibit others from doing the same.Unlike in ages past, a system of checks to prevent corruption should be in place.I would like to see eco-education in all schools so that kids learn the facts of the webs of life, that for one species to live, other species must support them with their lives. The soil which grows plants requires the excrement and dead bodies of those which feed upon plants and plant eaters, over the long term. The lowest bacteria and fungi, to the worms, make soil rich. Over-use of the soil reduces organic amounts, to the point where a great deal is devoid of precious nutrients---replaced by petro-chemicals also depleting. The better than thou attitude of vegans makes me sick. They are ignorant of the facts of life, and ecology/the environment. Wayne will never wake up in gerbil form, except in the dreams of a mad man.....

_________________"With every decision, think seven generations ahead of the consequences of your actions" Ute rule of life.“We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children”― Chief Seattle“Those Who Have the Privilege to Know Have the Duty to Act”…Albert Einstein

from the insane jerker, mothy; "Wayne wakes up in gerbil form. He is now against animal experimentation."I am for using animals in experiments before human testing, and I think killing plants is the same as killing animals for food. When we get to Heaven nothing will have to die so that we can live.As far as prison goes, it is illogically expensive. I would like to see a return of more executions, and ones that use torture to give a similar death to those who have done the same or worse to innocents. It is logical to reduce population in this manner during a time of extreme overpopulation. It is also logical to make the punishment so severe to deter the crime. I believe in the death penalty for all three time burglars on up. Mass murderers deserve a long public torture, to hopefully inhibit others from doing the same.Unlike in ages past, a system of checks to prevent corruption should be in place.I would like to see eco-education in all schools so that kids learn the facts of the webs of life, that for one species to live, other species must support them with their lives. The soil which grows plants requires the excrement and dead bodies of those which feed upon plants and plant eaters, over the long term. The lowest bacteria and fungi, to the worms, make soil rich. Over-use of the soil reduces organic amounts, to the point where a great deal is devoid of precious nutrients---replaced by petro-chemicals also depleting. The better than thou attitude of vegans makes me sick. They are ignorant of the facts of life, and ecology/the environment. Wayne will never wake up in gerbil form, except in the dreams of a mad man.....

So tell me was the sense of humour bypass very painful? It was obviously successful.

You really a star are you not, talking about heaven and torture in the same breath. an eye for an eye and the whole world becomes blind.

It is a sad state of affairs when people need other people to suffer in order to make themselves feel better.

from the insane jerker, mothy; "Wayne wakes up in gerbil form. He is now against animal experimentation."

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Have you not become sensitized to Mothy's humour yet? His humour has a sense of affection. Mothy loves Wayne.

I am for using animals in experiments before human testing, and I think killing plants is the same as killing animals for food.

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Tongue in cheek comment? I'm not sure .... killing plants is not the ame as killing animals. I'm not sure if you are kidding or not. It's hard to gage with you.

When we get to Heaven nothing will have to die so that we can live.

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Tongue in cheek again? There is nothing other than "here".

As far as prison goes, it is illogically expensive. I would like to see a return of more executions, and ones that use torture...

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An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

It is logical to reduce population in this manner during a time of extreme overpopulation. It is also logical to make the punishment so severe to deter the crime. I believe in the death penalty for all three time burglars on up. Mass murderers deserve a long public torture, to hopefully inhibit others from doing the same.

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It is logical to torture people because there are too many people?

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Johnny ..... relax a little. Try not to think so much. Do things that give you pleasure. Find out what gives you joy in your life and do it. Go for a walk in the woods, play with some children, cook an excellent meal and share it with your neighbors .... and don't do anything with a goal in mind or with some ideal. Just let your action be the healing balm that you and the world needs. Share it. Be it.

Unlike in ages past, a system of checks to prevent corruption should be in place.I would like to see eco-education in all schools so that kids learn the facts of the webs of life, that for one species to live, other species must support them with their lives. The soil which grows plants requires the excrement and dead bodies of those which feed upon plants and plant eaters, over the long term. The lowest bacteria and fungi, to the worms, make soil rich. Over-use of the soil reduces organic amounts, to the point where a great deal is devoid of precious nutrients---replaced by petro-chemicals also depleting.

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Ahhhh, so this is where you shine!

The better than thou attitude of vegans makes me sick. They are ignorant of the facts of life, and ecology/the environment.

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Is it any different from your recommendations that we torture those who have not been better than thou?

Wayne will never wake up in gerbil form, except in the dreams of a mad man.....

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But Mothy was kidding and Wayne knows it .... and was probably able to receive the affectionate jostling.

Johnny ... is there joy in your life? Do you experience a sense of playfulness ..... ever?