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Should Arsenal keep Wenger….and get rid of Kroenke?

Is Stan Kroenke or Arsene Wenger to blame for Arsenal’s steady decline to mid table mediocrity..? By PTN

I’m asking this, not as a knee jerk reaction from a few embarrassing results- but from a gradual decline in quality and deep concern that’s been growing for the past 3-4 years.. A sadness.

While most are clamouring for the head of Arsene Wenger – I’m challenging my fellow gooners to take a step back for a moment and work out the real problems within our club..

Is it WENGER or is it KROENKE?

Why are we fed the same lies year after year month after month week after week..?
Why aren’t we allowed to demonstrate inside or outside the club..and get our feelings heard?
Why are only questions and answers engineered out of the club’s press dept?
Why does Arsene Wenger refuse to spend on the areas everyone knows we are short in?

There’s a lot of unanswered questions – we all have our own …

Let’s look at each individual and see if we can determine an underlying issue..

Arsene Wenger is a proud intelligent man, he was an average player in his day but made his name managing..
From Nancy to Monaco and then grampus 8 to Arsenal – achieving double success in his first full year and playing ambitious unrivalled football culminating in an awesome display of 49 invincible unbeaten games. Scintillating football the world had only seen previously at the nou camp!

Arsene Wenger was an Arsenal genius with God like status.
Then for some reason, it all changed…the players became stale, they became aware of their vulnerability and from briefly regaining a foothold in challenging for the title, they seemed to fall so far from grace that our very best became despondent and started doubting the very source that got them to greatness in the first place.

Does Arsene Wenger even know his best starting 11??
I doubt he does- I feel he picks players out of his stubborn reluctance and favouritism towards certain dross instead of playing players on form.. Podolski, Rosicky, Campbell, Vermaelen, Vela to name but a few.. Leaves us all scratching our heads as to why they didn’t or don’t play..

Maybe desperation who knows..
Realising their manager wasn’t replacing like for like, he was buying poor defenders, poor strikers and not buying defensive midfielders – certain senior players became concerned that we were just an average club with average ambition – how could this be?? Was he missing friend and footballing guru David Dein .. We will never know..

From ‘gung ho’ attack and little or no defence- we became the team everyone loved to watch and all the stronger/better teams loved to play.. And from a perfectly oiled machine to an antique tractor we have fallen out of contention for the most prestigious competitions and will never challenge for the league anytime soon..

But before we all follow the sheep in the ‘WENGER OUT’ brigade, spare a thought for manure utd when Davey Moyes was at the helm – Sunderland and Di Canio or Chelsea and AVB… Because if it’s not Arsene but Stan, then no matter who is in the hot seat, we will still be in the same position this time next year (new manager or not)!

Stan Kroenke owns teams in America including the St. Louis Rams and the Denver Nuggets and yet none of them have won anything.. They are businesses that generate wealth..

Stan Kroenke is a businessman worth almost £1.8bn (a little more than Malcolm Glazer) with little or no interest as to the success of Arsenal FC other than its ability to generate wealth through gaining entry into the top 4 and lucrative CL spot and the £30m that goes with it.

Why then would Kroenke sack the man that generates wealth for him..? Well, He wouldn’t! He has little interest only in wealth. Wenger does his job, balances the books and plays decent football against the average/poor canon fodder of the Premier League….happy days all round

Kroenke withdrew $4.9m from Arsenal FC last year and stated ‘he could do what he wanted as it’s his club and his money! Well,That’s ok if you invest and show ambition instead of charging the highest ticket price in the league but fail to show commitment and quality on the pitch..? Something’s not right..? But is it Wenger or is it Kroenke ?

Let’s look at owners of our main title rivals :-
Roman Abramovich – spotted many times applauding his beloved Chelsea – the Russian billionaire (love him or hate him) has won the hearts of all Chelsea supporters as well as bringing home the Champions League trophy Wenger craves..he was also not slow in Bringing back former manager Mourhino- a man with a proven pedigree and understanding of the modern game – Abramovich takes no prisoners he wants to win – While Chelsea continue to sweep aside all in their path, Abramovich stops at nothing to achieve football success!

Sheikh Mansour – although not as frequent in his match visits as Abramovich, he still shows plenty of interest in his team. Ruthless in managerial terms, ‘if your not doing the business on the pitch’ you’re out! Like a genie rubbing his bottle – wishing for anyone, manager or player he wants to make his team the best in the world..
Both owners have an innate desire to make their team THE BEST to make their team WINNERS to make their team RESPECTED and above all -their team COMPETITIVE IN EVERY COMPETITION.!!

Although Man U haven’t been successful in the past 2 seasons.. They have been the most successful team in the Premier League for as long as I can remember – they have a winning mentality and have always wanted to win EVERY competition. They will return soon to the very top!

Liverpool have floundered – they are dire at the moment, yet they still want to win everything – playing for Liverpool has meaning and honour.. They are respected the world over… They still have a standard they want to play to..everyone (barring Balotelli) has a hunger to do well for the club – Unlike Arsenal that play only for the chance to win the top 4 trophy!!!

Silent Stan Kroenke on the other hand is only bothered about generating wealth. He rarely visits the Emirates and is more concerned with snow covering his mansions than Arsenal beating Man Utd ..!

So ask yourself:

1) Is it Kroenke not allowing Wenger to spend?
Or
2) Is it stubborn Wenger not wanting to spend?

A new manager may not be the answer.. . A new owner could be..??
We will never know, we need answers..because at the moment even the players don’t know what’s going on.. And if that continues to happen the fans are the only ones that suffer..!!

What do you think fellow Gooners.. Are we in the same predicament as last year – short in defence, weak in midfield lacking a leader or spine of the team .. Do you want to see a new owner or a new manager..or even both? Do you want us to challenge for the league – actually be competitive, Or are you all happy with the top 4 chase and in the champions league – making up the numbers..

Sir Fish and Chips (if there is no plan we do nothing), Vampire Stan (sucking the life out of Arsenal as a great club – he doesn’t even know the meaning of the word), Ivan the terrible general manager and Wenger the Minister for Silly Excuses. Take your pick as to who is the most pernicious influence on the club out of the above but it beggars belief that on top of paying a manager 8m a year you need to remind him that coming 4th is not acceptable!

You can learn from them what it means to have fans against you. Or if you dont like Liverpool fans as an axample, remember Manure fans turning against the board and Ferguson when they went through a hard time. End result was very posetive.

Was not the fans driving them out but the debts. If Arsenal will deepen in debt Kroenke will sell just to save some money. But I don’t believe we want to see our club having the same level of debt as Liverpool.

Poor Article- you fail to mention the huge amounts of money invested the past two seasons- which came in as soon as our debt was greatly reduced, new sponsorships came through and new revenue for the PL.

You also fail to give all the facts regarding ticket prices. yes we have the most expensive tickets for our premium seats- but our cheapest seats are one of the cheapest in london. of course they’re going to be more expensive than Liverpool, location, quality of team and stadium itself is reason for that.

Also you mention the lack of defenders- Kos was a quality buy, Monreal is proving his usefulness at CB and LB and Chambers is the same for RB and CB, Bellerin also looks to have a future.

In regards to players not playing- when Joel Campbell did come on he didnt look anywhere as good as the Ox, Sanchez or Welbeck- yes he should probably get introduced sooner but until he shows it in training- which apparently he doesnt, he’s not going to get a game. Also look at Podolski in the League cup- Shocking.

We learned this summer that no amount of money is ridiculous provided you have the people willing to pay : Luiz to PSG comes a first example and Mangala to City as close second. Then Falcao on loan for tens of millions and so on and on and on. Everyone have his price, even Messi or Mourinho. If you know what I am saying. And if Usmanov is really the one people think he is then he should not have any problem givving Mourinho 10 mils/yr.

It may sound very pathetic but remember this : whoever is winning at the moment it always seems invincible. You know, I know, everyone knows that nothing and no one is always invincible. These being said, I prefer to take an interest in our team rather than others. Everything has an end. It is a given.

Ks have been reading your posts for a while now and I can only assume ur a Spurs spy cos u really do talk mess , u would prefer klopp to wenger? A manager with no premier league experience and who’s team currently sit bottom of the German league or simeone who has no premier league experience and only one good year behind him, your one of those fans that always think the grass is greener I can only hope you don’t get your own way

please stop quoting Mo. unless you secretly want to be a Chelsea fan. or maybe not so secretly. but every time you credit that idiot for his name calling and gesturing you simply give him more fire power. if you’re a gooner, you’ll stop.

Its easy. First you cut off the snakes head, ( Wenger ), without the head ( the tail) is going to be useless.

I have hopes bec Usmanov owns 30% of the shares. Sooner or later when Wenger is not around to protect the money hungry board, only then the board will face the full wrath of the fans. Bec right now, some fans not like they like the board, but they keep quit bec like sheep people they are, they do listen to their master, and the master commands to keep quit.

Bec, we are united, ( a joke), bec we love the club ( joke ), bec we will compete ( joke), bec are respect each other ( joke). UNDER WENGER AND STAN WE WILL NEVER WIN AGAIN.

Let me answer your first question. That night I dropped some tears because it wasn’t fair at all. I mean we all knew Lehman was crazy but not so crazy that he’d do the unthinkable. We had the quality and the numbers to get from one nil down and win it. Hell! Even with 10 people we scored, that good we were back in the time. That night we lost virtually all the team and we never recovered as next season we went 4th and barely made it to round of 16th the next season. We went out in the 5th round of the FA Cup and our top goal scorer was RvP with 11 goals. 11 fricking goals ! At Arsenal. Useless to say that Bergkamp retired immediately after, Pires said bye, Campbell, Reyes, Cole, Lauren all of them couldn’t bear it. Yes, we bought Rosicky, Song but they were nowhere near the people we lost. All began there, Henry saw it and moved. That was the worst night for me as a gooner. One could say about the final against Zaragoza but that was really, really bad luck. Anyway.
Let me make it clear (again) : I hold nothing for or against Wenger. Personally I trust him because when I look in Europe to all coaches available none of them inspire me enough confidence. That doesn’t mean I agree with all his deeds, very often I see a different team being fielded and irritates me the fact that his excuses are always the same. But I get that. He is protecting the players and the club, good for him. What it pi$ses me the most is his principles in a world where principles are seen as a weakness. It is noble to have them but never let these govern your life if you want to be seen as a game changer, a winner eventually.
Finally, I don’t mind getting abuse, is part of the internet where everyone hides behind an avatar and thinks they actually hurt me by abusing the keyboard. I am thicker than Wenger.

Usmanov
it’s different for our share holders, the club don’t owe anything to them, they just bought shares from other share holders the rest was paid by us the fans in way of buying Arsenal merchandise,season ticket, TV rights (cable money), turngate money, food sold in the club, so if they want to leave good luck to them all they have to do is find some one to sell their shares for huge profit something like 200 to 300% more then they paid in the past, the guy that you curry his name is more then wiling to buy all their shares to take ower the board.

This club is really passing through interesting times. And it is in a critical and dynamic stage of it’s development. At the moment we can only truly call ourselves a “very good club”. But make no mistake about this: We are by no means a “great club”, yet. However, it is a general belief among “normal people” (in Mr Peter Hillwood’s words) that AFC will aim to transform into a “great club”. Why, we have the potential! This club has and is acquiring the potential needed (credit to whom credit is due) to go past our current level of performance and club status. So, it is only natural that expectations will begin to rise. I hope Mr Peter Hillwood understands this. I was pissed by his “ignorant” comment.

Well we know one thing like most Rusian Bilioneres and Oil rich club owners its the buzz they are after and best form of buzz is wining trophies and at the same time they are making money in shares as we all know there is so much money in football, it two season alone the prize for being in EPL has risen over 30% just from TV rights.

It’s Wanger he is terrified of big players that’s why he turned down Real Madrid in the past and he even said so that he couldn’t control so many and such big names in one club, that’s why he likes to take young players and he molde them in to passive players all great but no agretion.
That’s my belief.

I say get rid of both of them, or move Wenger up, Kroenke is not interested in football but money, unlike Roman Abramovich, Dave wheelan of Wigan and the late Jack Walker the ex chairman of Blackburn Rovers when they were champions of England when Alan Sheerer was there.

Am i the only one finding the whole ” Wenger out” movement very disrespectful? It’s not even that i’m an AKB but out of pure respect for the man and his achievements, stick by him and let him leave when he feels the time is right. The simple fact that Arsenal is synonymous to Arsene Wenger should make us all re-evaluate our words and opinions. Wenger is probably the last in the dying breed of managers that have brought a club to new heights and stood by it through thin and thick. Arsenal isn’t just his club, it is probably its child and he probably had many chances over the years to join a bigger club but he did not. The least we can do as fans is show him the respect he deserves and support him for the remainder of his time with us even if we don’t win a major trophy.

ras911
We are goin ower and ower the same thing you have to exept this is not normal businesses its a competitive sport and your future depends on wining trophys to be able to lure new suporters, Wangers is unbelievable when it comes to buying the man just won’t buy what’s necesery even with exess money in the bank, I think most fans gave him more years then any other club suporters would of have and we are still hopeful every transfer window he will do the right thing but again he will fall short this January.

Precisely, Ras. These other impatient folks don’t appreciate what you’ve stated. And they certainly don’t appreciate what it takes to create a masterpiece. Arsene is clearly endeavoring upon a masterpiece. It’s so blatantly obvious. It’s also absolutely frustrating and, because this is football after all, it might not work out as fully intended. Countless examples can be given of clubs who spend and still lose. We have spent, and very wisely. We have two of the world’s best players that we have bought in the last two major windows. And we have a flock of up and coming young players who are on the verge of greatness. We do need defensive cover and most importantly a solid CDM. That’s where my gripe is, but I believe that’s coming by this summer to complete the masterpiece, project, whatever you want to call it. Grandpa Wenger will not retire until he see’s it completed. Trust that. And all we can do in the meantime is hope to not keep looking awful. That’s down to the players who last year were keeping us on top of the league. Now we have greater class with Alexis, and we’re struggling more. Go figure. That’s football. Also, because Wenger probably does not want to have to deal with a quality CB sitting on the bench like he had to do to TV, he will probably buy young up and comers who will come into their own. TV was a stand-up player (who’s now injured btw), and he didn’t complain much about his being benched. He was repaid by being able to move on in peace to Barca no less. Wenger naively figured that Per and Kos would maintain like last season, and if not, then Chambers would do the job. He didn’t see the Debuchy awkward ankle twist coming. But that’s also football. So what can we do? Pray and hope that Wenger’s masterpiece comes together and that it succeeds in bringing us not just one EPL title, but to challenge for a decade of them when he retires. That’s where my hope is, at least. #COYG

To respond to this, the players you listed aside from Arteta were all part of the now (at the time) while he continued to create this masterpiece. Arteta has certainly slowed down, and was ALWAYS an attacking midfielder. So, I think he’s done amicably as a CDM, considering. He also always gets a very high pass completion rate because he has good vision. He’s just not the best. But that’s part of the process. It doesn’t just happen overnight. We could try and if we failed that would cost us a lot more. And the AOB’s would then rightly have a reason to push for Wenger out. But as it stands, Wenger and Arsenal chose to avoid the route of the Spuds or Pool, and have been calmly scouting and building a very strong side. We’re not their yet, but I believe we’re getting close. I, like all other Arsenal fans, wanted to see the masterpiece completed this past summer. But, as I’ve said somewhere in one of these posts, I do believe we will get the missing piece this coming summer. Then we can evaluate how bad the Arsenal are.

Oh, and I don’t think it’s fair to judge Sonogo, yet. He’ll need a decent run of games to develop before he should be considered completely useless. That’s why he was sent back down to play with the kiddies. He’s back and he’s scored. So he’s not necessarily bad, and might prove to be of high quality yet.

Too late…
The club should have not been sold to an American…!!!
This is not “soccer” and you need an understanding of the history of the club as well as what it means to the fans and the community.
How can Kroenke understand it?
How can Gazidis (coming from the MLS… One of the sh*test and weakest league in the world) understand it?

It was the first mistake made by the major shareholders who sold their shares to Kroenke.

Get rid of Kroenke?
Arsenal is a money making machine, “la poule aux oeufs d’or”…
Impossible, unless Usmanov (second biggest shareholder) comes out with a ridiculous offer. But he is also a businessman and why would he pay over the odds… We are not Real Madrid or Barcelona with a gallery of trophies…

Like I said before, we won win the CL, we are out of the BPL and one domestic cup.
There is nothing to look forward to, but a top four and may be another “small” FA Cup under the guidance of a “deluded” manager who now, funny enough, cannot find his behind sitting on the touch line… Doing his job for once!

kronkes influence over the club is minimal at best how many decisions does he actually make in the public club domain that we all know of,
i am only guessing here but just because he is majority shareholder it doesn’t mean he can just do what he wants without the other board members say so, i suppose the rest of the board would vote him out of power and liquidate his shares if he did something really wrong like leveraged the club against a big debt.
that is the point of the board set up so nobody singular is in total control but a body of members at the top are in control so there is more council on club matters that just one man, as for the money his company recieved it was a board decision (not just him taking money) out to pay his company for the services rendered in what they thought was value for money i suppose if it increased the clubs revenue.
this myth for years that the arsenal board and shreholders are greedy and only care about money has baffed me for a long time now, there is no concrete evidence that that is the case just opinions that its the case, the board are there to just make sure that the club runs smoothly and dont go bankrupt under there watch in the history of the club that all the board has ever done nothing more.
gazidis and wenger are the ones who set the direction and path for the club in terms of commercial success and football success they are to important players at the top for me who set the path that we travel int eh next 10 years or so COYG

“I’m asking this, not as a knee jerk reaction from a few embarrassing results- but from a gradual decline in quality”

hahahahahahaha i gotta read this article now. but considering we’re stronger this season than we were last (regardless of our results), and that includes the signing of two of the world’s best players. that’s not an exaggeration, either. ozil is ozil, a midfield maestro who now has won a wc to add to his tally of soccer success. and alexis came behind only messi and ronaldo last season in la liga for the highest combined goals scored/assists provided, which should really spell out his quality. so, yeah, i’ll read this article now, but the fact that it started with the quoted sentence i pasted above makes this article already ooze of catering to AOBs and all the wisdom that crowd has provided to the arsenal. thank you, that is all.

“Stan Kroenke owns teams in America including the St. Louis Rams and the Denver Nuggets and yet none of them have won anything..”

Just finished reading this article. Nice try, but unfortunately you’re still getting your facts wrong and missing the point. For one, the sentence I quoted and pasted above is false. The Rams, being an NFL “American” football team have won at the world’s most lucrative sporting event, the Super Bowl. In 1999. Look it up. Stan owned 40% of the Rams from 1995 on and bought out the rest in 2010. So, to say he has never won anything and only cares about wealth is a tad false. What I can tell you, is that I have NO clue what drives Stan. Also, I can tell you that neither do you. Did he marry a daughter from the Walton family (the owners of Walmart, the largest chain of US stores), yes. Does he have money beyond belief, yes. Does he clearly have an interest in sports? I think we can guess that he does because people with the wealth he generated don’t have to buy sports teams to keep generating wealth. Rather, the enterprise of professional sport team ownership is rarely looked at as wealth generating enterprise, from what I’ve read. But, I’ll admit that I haven’t looked at financial statements of any sports teams. To make this point accurately, I would want to look at the financial statements of dozens of pro sports teams over a period of 10 years. That’s the only way to accurately determine the truth of this. Is Stan the problem at Arsenal? Maybe. Do we have a new stadium during his tenure. Sure. It’s nice. It’s not as nice as winning trophies. But, I’m not sure he’s the problem at Arsenal. I’m also not convinced there is anyone that could lead Arsenal any better than Arsene. And we’ll see as much when he leaves. In fact, I think Arsene is extremely concerned about this because Arsenal is his baby and he wants whoever adopts it to raise it properly. But to do so successfully, Arsene wants to create a team (in their new enough stadium) that is going to last for a few seasons successfully. That will be part of his legacy, so I’m positive that matters to Arsene.

Mike not quite sure what you’re getting at but a ‘steady decline in quality’ is actually true- HENCE OUR WORSE START IN 32 YEARS.. Irrespective of Sanchez who is our ONLY quality signing in the past 5 years!

Ozil is a very good player ( playing with the likes of benzema ronaldo etc) not with Sanogo or giroud to pass to!
Ozil is weak physically and mentally and WENGER hasn’t addressed the issue of playing to his strengths..
It’s no surprise Ozil is out injured as he probably doesn’t fancy playing with average players..
Sanchez is a breath of fresh air that has tenacity to die for and is infectious.. If he’s ever injured or decides that when we finish outside the top 4 he wants champions league football then we are fooked..
The article was written for people to question whether it’s wenger or Kroenke who is holding the team back..
Why weren’t issues addressed int he summer when vermalen was sold or the season before when we needed a striker.. Or a defensive midfielder yet signed an INJURED PLAYER on loan ffs
These issues just get brushed under the carpet as if we just have to accept them while still paying the highest ticket prices in the world..
It’s a joke and a total 2 finger to the hard working genuine supporters that have to witness these issues ..
I don’t know the answers – I’m just giving observations – and when you analyse things – it really isn’t a ‘knee jerk reaction’..

Kroenke wasn’t full owner of the Rams when they won- but he saw potential as he sees in Arsene and arsenal for achieving the lucrative 4th place spot..
Sometimes you get the feeling certain fans want us to fail in the pursuit of the top4 just to see if it shakes the club up and we give the helm to a ‘true’ footballing owner..
Facts are irrelevant to a degree – what you see on the pitch is reality-and the true facts are we have been gradually declining year on year and my article is a question that is hypothetical as there isn’t a right answer or wrong answer.. Nobody knows the truth.. And all we see is the same mistakes happening year after year and unfortunately.. Wenger is in the firing line because of this..

First off, Kroenke was a 40% owner when they won. I stated that clearly above. And he still had to wait 11 years before he was afforded an opportunity to buy the remaining shares. That sort of purchase doesn’t just happen, because the owners have more money than we know and don’t need to sell, typically. Second, quality versus the worst start we’ve had in 32 years are not synonymous, or to put it fairly, your statement is ambiguous. Quality, to me, describes the players and how they are playing. That is how I evaluate quality. The irony in your statement is that with the same group of players, minus the addition of one of the world’s best players, we were on top of the league for the majority of last season. So, is it the quality that has gone down or is it that the players are playing at a lower level of their already proven quality? Legitimate questions. Third, you insinuate that Ozil has chosen not to play because of who are on his team. Look, you can’t make those statements and expect to be taken seriously. And you can’t say that he’s not a quality signing. That’s just laughable, and i’m not trying to insult you. I’m trying to help you remain objective in your analysis. Because you can analyze all you want, but if you’re simply going to be subjective in your analysis then the conclusion you draw will likely be the same one you drew when you initially had a knee jerk get Wenger out reaction. Ozil is great. Did he look sluggish when playing in all but one or two games this season, yes. Does that mean he is of poor quality and not a quality signing. Not a chance. He is low on confidence (see below).

As far as fans wanting us to fail, I get that this stems purely from a point of significant frustration. Believe me, I’m absolutely at that point as well. This losing nonsense cannot continue. Nobody wants to see that. But the facts are that Ozil is a great player, and we signed him two summers ago. Then, last summer, we signed another great player. We let TV go, rightly so, and didn’t pay Sagna with good reason. We replaced both, and had this season gone like last, we’d be a top defensive side, again. But, this is football, and we are not . . . yet. But what we are is a team filled with greater quality players than we were last season. We even have Campbell who had a stellar WC on our bench. So is it quality that we lack? Or is it the inability of the players to believe in their quality or to somehow repeat showing that quality on the pitch? Last season Wenger managed essentially the same group and they did well. So to me it seems like there’s something else at play that is being overlooked. I proffer that this something else is the self-belief and confidence from the players themselves. Confidence is the greatest asset to any athlete. With it, those who are good become great. Maybe Henry’s heir of greatness around the club will do these lads some good.

I’ll leave with this. Wenger irritated me beyond belief this past summer when he failed to sign a quality CDM. But, I believe he won’t repeat this failure come next summer. If he does, and we don’t have a proven quality player for that role, then depending on who else is signed, I’ll agree that his project has officially taken too long. 3 solid summers of solid top quality signing alongside young up and coming high quality players potentially makes for one hell of a GREAT team, I think.

I wish. Maybe if my French was fluent and my English not quite as good as it is, then maybe. But, man, wouldn’t it be great to be in his shoes! Don’t mind the AOB thumb downs. Like I said above–while I disagree with several of your points, your article made for a fun substantive, and, i hope, more objective discussion.