When Crowley said the adept is to seek both weddings (creature of slime below and the glittering one above), what exactly did he mean by this? Are there two aspects to our HGA in tiphareth of of the Qabalah and the Qlipoth?

My other question, how are left hand orders that use the Qlipoth as their primary model different than orders like the A.A? Are these left hand paths conducive of actual enlightenment and attainment?

I've always felt the division between 'angels' and 'demons' to be very artificial. So what are the actual spiritual dangers of a left hand path?

[V] wrote:When Crowley said the adept is to seek both weddings (creature of slime below and the glittering one above), what exactly did he mean by this? Are there two aspects to our HGA in tiphareth of of the Qabalah and the Qlipoth?

First of all, AC didn't say this. It's a quote from one of the Holy Books. It was received.

in general, it means Nefesh vs. Neshamah. There are various ways to say this - different ideas are related to each other - but this is the gist of it.

My other question, how are left hand orders that use the Qlipoth as their primary model different than orders like the A.A?

First of all, these so-called, self-labeled LHP "orders" are a very modern phenomenon, and I'm not willing to accept this as a definition of what LHP means. But, to your specific question, I'd be more inclined to ask the opposite question: In what ways do you think they are in any sense the same as A.'.A.'. (in purpose, tone, method, etc.)?

I've always felt the division between 'angels' and 'demons' to be very artificial. So what are the actual spiritual dangers of a left hand path?

One thing to be aware of is your own reaction to the thing. Whether there is anything inherently "good" or "bad" in them, it can be damaging to you (your psyche) if you knowingly, voluntarily align yourself with something that you consider evil, against your deep values, in violation of your own truth, etc.

In what ways do you think they are in any sense the same as A.'.A.'. (in purpose, tone, method, etc.)?

I'm wondering if their purpose is fundamentally the same. Do you attain K&C of the HGA with these paths? Or is there a separate but similar goal in the Left Hand Path? I've also read in a few books on the Qabalah that the Magician has nothing to gain from working with the Qlipoth.

I noticed these Left Hand Paths don't really stress the importance of Love in their methods. I've always understood the HGA to be a perfect embodiment of love. This is what confuses me the most about their approach. But I do believe adepts of the left hand path have achieved some kind of wisdom. How can this be so different than the goals of the AA?

I can't really speak with any authority about Left-Hand orders since I have no experience with them or any understanding, really, of what their work entails, but I can offer maybe a bit of definitional clarity from The Cosmic Doctrine, received by Dion Fortune.

According to that work, as I currently understand it, the individual who has realized the goal of reuniting with the No Thing (Tao, All, Not, pick your poison), finds himself at the bottom of an oval shaped path, the top of which is his goal. Looking upwards, the left-hand path is the path of descent that he took to arrive at what we generally consider to be normal reality. It's the path of the veiling of consciousness with Maya, along which he was imprinted at each plane of descent by the particular aspects of that plane. In planning the journey of return, the aspirant is guided towards continuing the journey around the oval and climbing back up the right-hand path which traverses the seven planes in reverse order but in a forward-developing way. It is acknowledged that one can ascend back up the left-hand path but it is discouraged because that would just re-tread ground already covered. The individual isn't evolving unless he's using what he learned at each plane during the descent to guide him through a new path during the ascent.

I get the sense there's a bit of moralizing in that stance that may not be justified in a Thelemic context. In TCD, the left-hand path is associated with drug-use and hypnotic trance and thereby denigrated. I think if we remove those sorts of blanket judgements from the old-school way of looking at things, we probably land at a more useful model. There are two ways to return to the source, retracing the steps that got you here or using the lessons learned from that journey to carve a new path forward. Both ultimately get you there but, if the goal of the Work is evolution of consciousness, carving a new path seems to be the only useful path. Along that path, I think your quote from Liber Tzaddi fits in well: as long as one is covering new ground, pushing oneself towards new experiences and new challenges, there's no need to get hung up on some moralizing idea of what is better or worse. Light is just as important as Darkness in the work of reuniting with the Not.

Is this a fair overview of what modern Left-Hand orders work toward? Are they attempting to rehash what they already know rather than evolving forward? Or are they using the term in a different way?

In what ways do you think they are in any sense the same as A.'.A.'. (in purpose, tone, method, etc.)?

I'm wondering if their purpose is fundamentally the same. Do you attain K&C of the HGA with these paths? Or is there a separate but similar goal in the Left Hand Path? I've also read in a few books on the Qabalah that the Magician has nothing to gain from working with the Qlipoth.

I noticed these Left Hand Paths don't really stress the importance of Love in their methods. I've always understood the HGA to be a perfect embodiment of love. This is what confuses me the most about their approach. But I do believe adepts of the left hand path have achieved some kind of wisdom. How can this be so different than the goals of the AA?

If some people attain without any system, and others fail with most specialised one, i guess it is possible both to attain or to fail with those. Of course, the more specialised one thing is, the more optimal for concerned purpose. Go to the Tao, the Tao welcomes you. Go to Hell, Hell welcomes you.

Though at a higher level Hell is the Tao too. And for the most vile, the Tao is seen as hell, or as a joke. There is also the truth that every possibility happens. So even the most illogical thing most probably will happen in some way. But nothing is illogical(or not) beyond logic. There is that which is and not, thats all. Anything can be described precisely in terms of qabalah. Though to make it real it must be willed verily. The true nature of anything may be not knowable even then if one is not a real master.

On a higher plane, no love is love too. What makes no love exist in the great all? The very fact there is such thing as no love is love. Of a specific kind. Anything can be seen as love of a specific vibration(many vibrations interconnected). Though if one does not will it consciously and with skill, there may be no love indeed as far as the microcosm goes, and even one may fail from an incarnation point of vue.