Maybe you're just lazy. Usually, a theist's inner self-god will take revenge upon his or her enemies by affecting the behaviour of the theist in question. That only works if the theist is willing to get up off of his or her butt to do so.

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

If you are sincerely struggling with these questions, you have my sympathies. When I first lost my faith (after nearly 15 years as identifying myself as a Christian), I also felt lost, vulnerable and foolish. For those of us who arrive at atheism after years if not decades as believers in god/s, realizing we no longer have the comfort of religious faith is unnerving.

But it can also be liberating. Though I'd been wrong about god existing, I realized I was also wrong about hell and eternal punishment. Those terrifying, grotesque fairy tales in the Bible became just Bronze-Age tribal mythology, not the literal / metaphorical history of the universe. I was responsible for my own success and failure, not the pawn of a supernatural being.

In short, it is quite possible to live a happy and fulfilling life as an atheist. There are many regulars here who have done so for decades. There are also a few sincere and thoughtful theists.

There are parents, spouses, singles, those who work at home and those who post from their offices. All in all, folks with a wide range of experiences and circumstances, glad to debate, discuss and advise. Feel free to make use of the resources here.

Logged

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.--Marcus Aurelius

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

Exactly why are you asking these questions? Without knowing where you're coming from, it's hard to figure out what the attitude behind them are. Are you losing your faith and struggling with these questions? Or are you just trying to see what type of answers we'll give?

Assuming you mean the god of the Bible with multiple personalities:In the stories, he reveals himself all the time in extremely visible ways. However, since that's clearly not happening, people claim "mysterious ways". The only real answer, taking in account the promises made in the Bible that describe said deity, is that said deity does not exist

Same reason Santa Claus never revealed himself to you. He doesn't exist.

Quote

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

He doesn't exist. Note, we do have a legal justice system. Use that instead.

Quote

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

You need to understand that this universe does not exist for any particular purpose. It is purposeless. So there's nothing in it for you or any of us. There is no reward or punishment. This is not necessarily a bad thing though.

We get to assign value to our lives ourselves. If you had never been alive it wouldn't make a difference.... but you are alive. Appreciate the fact that you are alive and have a chance to experience happiness, joy, love, laughter as well as anger, sadness and pain. You have the priveledge of living the complete conscious experience that is your life.

Yes, there is injustice and hatred in the world, there is also the exact opposite. There is both good and evil in the world. Try to do good and experience good as much as you can.

Quote

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

Jesus, as portrayed in the bible, is a mythical character. His life is nothing but legend.

Anybody who is normal doesn't want to die. It's in our instincts to survive. The realization that we are mortal is scary for some. A hope... a promise of eternal life is very tempting. So people tend to fall for it.

We human beings are marvelous creatures. We invent things like love, justice, beauty and a whole range of other concepts even though we are fragile little bags of water held up by brittle calcium. With oblivion before and behind us, we create, and hope, and dream, and love. To be a decent human being is a heroic task, and a noble one.

When I think about it, this gives me all the meaning and fulfillment I need. I believe in people. While we often get things wrong and are capable of enormous cruelty, our cumulative achievements slowly enable us to remove more and more suffering from our fellow human beings.

If you think this is not happening, then consider your family history. I have looked at mine - a hundred and fifty years ago my ancestors were dirt-farmers in Holland. They were poor folk, poorly nourished and forced to work under conditions we would not find bearable today. They bore child after child, and buried about 1 out of every 3 children. In some families it was especially bad - child after child died before it reached the age of 4. Sometimes they did not even bother to change the name between children, and buried 3 children in a row, all with the same name. I cannot even imagine such hardship. We have now dealt with that - thanks to modern scientific medicine, childhood diseases are no longer a continual source of grief everywhere and we have hopes that one day, it will be like this all over the world.

We will keep improving things if we keep our eye on the price, and do not expect that we already know everything that is worth knowing. It was not gods will that those children died. They died as a result of our ignorance. It is our duty to make sure that we learn, so that we may prevent suffering because of ignorance.

Logged

It is a foine loine between a poirate and a farrrmer. Oi stand astroid that foine loine.

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

If this OP is a set up for you to launch into a sermon, think again. Please read the Rules. I also recommend you read the Posting Guide. Any claims you make are expected to be verifiable and backed up with evidence. And by evidence I do not mean quotes from the bible. Please let's get off on the right foot and do not make this a problem. Thanks and happy posting

But He does!!!eleventy!!! You just have to look around you... Pine Cones, eh? How do they work? The banana - proof of God!

Quote

Why will God not take revenge upon my enemies?

You have chosen the wrong Enemies and one of them is God... nothing good will come of this.

Quote

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

In return for being a godbotherer all your days and pissing people off, you get this deal:- You die. Then there is a bit where you come back to life and sit with Jesus forever and ever. (Terms and conditions apply, your experience may vary. Everlasting life is not confirmed as no one has come back from the dead, it is a biblical offence to try to seek the dead to ask them about it.)

Quote

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

I do that too! Believe in me and you will not only have eternal life but this wonderful alarm-clock and coffee maker! But that is not all! I'm going send you a critical thinking book!

I hope this helps

Logged

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

What are my rewards in a world full of injustice, hatred for each other, where every person that has ever existed DIED!!

What 's the big deal with this man called Jesus, who claimed to be the Son of the Living God? Promising eternal life to those who hear him???

If this OP is a set up for you to launch into a sermon, think again. Please read the Rules. I also recommend you read the Posting Guide. Any claims you make are expected to be verifiable and backed up with evidence. And by evidence I do not mean quotes from the bible. Please let's get off on the right foot and do not make this a problem. Thanks and happy posting

your affectionate uncleScrewtape

Okay proof.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system) when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

I'm unclear what you're trying to say here.

Quote

3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

What are you trying to say here? At best, it sounds like some badly worded preaching.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Please support your claim. I have no idea what you are trying to say - can you clarify?

Quote

2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system) when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

Can you explain what you mean by that? There is injustice in the world, yes. We, as human beings, try to deal with that by advocating justice. Sometimes we are successful, sometimes we are not.

Quote

3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

Soooo... If I write a book that says "Some Christians will not like this" and then, years later when it is published, this indeed happens it counts as prophecy? And I am actually being more specific than the one you seem to invoke just here...

Logged

It is a foine loine between a poirate and a farrrmer. Oi stand astroid that foine loine.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Uh ... who said all that? ...

You are claiming that a god exists... you need to prove that it does. The bible as a source does not live up to the scientific standard of proof.

Quote

2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system) when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

Uh ... I said there is injustice in the world. I also said there were instances of justice. Both exist. There's good and evil. You calling me a liar?

Quote

3. Verifiable truth? What if centuries ago, words were spoken that said people would speak in harmful ways toward the Annointed One? This has not come to pass, has it? But these prophecies don't matter to you because you will go from bad to worse and and refuse to acknowledge the One God.

Oh-kay ... so the proof you promised us at the beginning of your post? I suppose that was a lie.

Keep it coming ... you're making your religion and your fellow theists look so good. You're doing your lord so many favors by spewing nonsensical babble to us in this fashion.

God must be desperate, using folks like SOI who pronounce these confusing, weak-ass arguments to convey his garbled message. Pitifully lame.

By "nature" I mean the hatred being directed here.

Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

But no One (nobody) warned us?? Bad to worse, bad to worse.

No ones directing any hatred here. There's some mockery and probably a lot of pity, but no hatred.

You do realize that religion can't tell you the "truth of moralities", right? Religion has no evidence and no proof to back it up. Hence it can never actually be shown to be true. At best it can only be considered someones opinion. Unless, of course, you have this proof to offer us?

Logged

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.Spartan Reply: If.

2. I read in a post someone telling me to go through "human channels" (I'm assuming they mean the judicial system) when claimed that I live in a world FULL of injustice. For anyone to say otherwise, lies.

Deferring justice to a hoped-for afterlife does nothing to promote justice in the real world. If anything, it allows injustice to flourish. The belief that God will punish all wrongdoers after they die may be comforting, but could also lead to being passive or complacent about stopping them here and now.

If you are wrong about the existence or nature of God, then waiting for divine justice is nothing but an empty delusion. But even if God does exist, what he may or may not do is completely beyond our control. All we can do is seek justice to the best of our ability in this world.

We're not hating on you. We're simply being critical of your beliefs, as we've done with many other theists who have come here before. Admittedly, we have a tendency to sneer at such beliefs, but it's kind of hard to keep the impulse under control when those beliefs are so "sneerable". It's hard to have respect for people who believe in talking snakes and dead people coming back to life.

Quote

Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

And many others will say yes, immediately, after having pondered the question at length, as many of us here have. For my own part, I majored in philosophy. My main interest was the ontological problem, but I also ended up studying ethics quite extensively (necessary for any philosophy major). I arrived at an objective and proper system of ethics toward the end of my studies. (By the way, it doesn't involve killing people who work on Sundays.)

Quote

What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

This is the debating technique known as "hypophora", or more commonly, "Monopolizing the Question". It won't work here.

The laws that I "proclaim/live by" are a synthesis of Kant's "ends/means" distinction and a Schopenhauerian recognition of the interconnectedness of all things and people. This system rejects as unethical almost every single law and principle laid down by Yahweh (and, to a lesser extent, those laid down by Jesus). I don't think that's a coincidence, either.

Logged

[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]: Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

What hatred? I don't hate you. Nobody said they hate you. We don't hate anyone. You're the only one mentioning hatred here.

Quote

Do you "believe" that you can come to the truth of moralities on your own? Many will say yes, immediately, without pondering the question.

When you say "truth of moralities" I think you mean objective morality. There is no such thing. Morality is subjective. We each have our own set of moral values. We do not need a god to exist to have morality.

Quote

What laws do you proclaim/live by? Laws of morality which have governed us for centuries, one which we are disposing of more and more each moment.

I obey the laws of the country I live in. They are in place to make sure our society functions. These laws are not absolute and are continually improved. For example, slavery is no longer legal when it used to be.

You agree that slavery is bad right? Even though the bible supports it.

Quote

But no One (nobody) warned us?? Bad to worse, bad to worse.

Who warned us of what exactly? A threat? Be specific instead of rambling incoherently.

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Using the bible to show the bible is true is going to be a hard sell to anyone here and is generally considered to be preaching. Using outside sources to show the bible is true is what we are looking for.

This is what I mean about starting off on the right foot. You are not doing it. You are getting all judgmental, self-righteous and casting stones when I just asked you to provide a little evidence. SOI, please take a breath and then post as if you were having a conversation at the grocery story with a stranger. You would be civil and polite in that situation, right?

1. You say, prove your God and do not use Bible quotes, even though they profess your "nature."

Using the bible to show the bible is true is going to be a hard sell to anyone here and is generally considered to be preaching. Using outside sources to show the bible is true is what we are looking for.

This is what I mean about starting off on the right foot. You are not doing it. You are getting all judgmental, self-righteous and casting stones when I just asked you to provide a little evidence. SOI, please take a breath and then post as if you were having a conversation at the grocery story with a stranger. You would be civil and polite in that situation, right?

You will remove me from these message boards, and why?

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

I speak to all who hear this way, grocery store or not.

The Kingdom of God has come near you and you have rejected it! Jerusalem, you who stone her prophets!

So you act like this in public as well?

Logged

"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.Spartan Reply: If.

Every time there's a natural disaster the tinfoil hat group gathers. that's the sign that Jesus is showing up, its really sad. I see the signs, I see the signs! I think the only sign christians see in their mind, Is Wishful thinking. the biggest byproduct of reading the bible, sore knees and a weird case of dementia.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, good luck SOI, you have some big minds to tackle here.

Logged

The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee