How Many Wives Did Rove Think Wilson Had?

Here's a pointed comment from TalkingPointsMemo.com:
SO WE'VE GOT Karl Rove's latest story, as recounted by his lawyer, Robert Luskin.
Rove did spill the beans about Plame in an effort to discredit Joe Wilson. Only he didn't mention the name 'Valerie Plame'. He only spilled the beans about 'Joe Wilson's wife'.
I'm no lawyer. But I'd hate to go into court with my case resting on that distinction.
And remember, the president has certainly known all of this from the beginning.
-- Josh Marshall

The other claim we can imagine Rove making is that he didn't know Plame was undercover. And here's another useful comment from TalkingPointsMemo.com on October 9, 2003:

As we’ve noted before, one of the best pieces of evidence that Novak (and thus his sources) knew Valerie Plame was a clandestine employee of the CIA was that he said as much in his original column. There he called her an “Agency operative.

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Feel free to email (nearly) the entire MSM and tell them Karl Rove is a traitor. The list has been formatted with commas so all you have to do is cut and past into your email program.

I recommend sending them in groups so as not to jam up your server and somewhat hide the fact you are sending a mass email. There are about 15 groups below, so send the same email 15 times. It will take five minutes.

Keep the email short.

PUT YOUR POINT IN THE SUBJECT LINE. Mine read: Karl Rove has betrayed the United States. REPORT IT!

Feel free to email the list to all your friends, co-workers, and relatives.

We can change the world. We can change our country. Have fun, good luck...

If Novak really means "secret agent" when he says operative, why did he use the redundant "undercover CIA operative" when first describing "Bob"? If "operative" meant undercover, why include "undercover" at all?

Also, only searching Nexis for "agency operative" or "CIA operative" is a bit lacking isn't it? Novak uses "operative" to mean a hack, such as many would describe Lawrence O'Donnell, a Democrat operative.

As Novak's column is written, it can mean secret agent, or something else. Only Novak knows what he meant when he wrote it. Thus it becomes important to figure out what he was told.

It appears Rove only knew that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, and that she had gotten Wilson the gig in Niger, which is true.

Something that most people forget is that her name was never a secret. Her name appears in Wilson's biography, that was published before all of this happened, and her name, Valerie Plame, also appears on a few biographies of Wilson on the internet that predate this affair.

It wouldn't have mattered if Rove said her name, because her name wasn't secret. The only thing that was secret was that she was an undercover agent at the CIA.

If Rove didn't know this, and only told people that she worked for the CIA, then the those who blew her cover were actually the anti-Bush columnists who said her cover had been blown, when Novak hadn't actually explicitly said that she was undercover.

Later we found out that Wilson was lying about almost everything, and thus this is why the White House sought to discredit his story because it was full of lies. They never went after Wilson's wife, the only reason his wife was involved is because she is the one who got Wilson the mission to Niger in the first place.

No smear campaign to out Wilson's wife.
Only an attempt to discredit a partisan hack lying his ass off.
John Kerry dumped Wilson from his campaign after the Senate Intelligence Committee found him to have been quite dishonest. That should be the final indicator that this whole "affair" is a whole lot of nothing.

I don't know if Wilson is a liar or not but I certainly believe that if that is so, then Karl is equal to him.

Wilson did say that his wife suggested him in a meeting during the downing street memo meeting because he knew the people involved and mining but added that she did not arrange the meeting....it was in the end agreed to by higher ups.

Let's remember also that the white house has a history of discrediting people and character assassination when it suits them. Hardly admirable traits when one doesn't get one's way and as has been stated many times, makes them look like silly and childish. I have a hard time believing much coming out of the white house. Makes them look ridiculous and unprofessional as a whole.

The op-ed Wilson wrote to start off all of this was a strawman filled with lies. He wrote up a bunch of reasons for why it was not credible that Iraq had gotten uranium from Niger, yet that was not what he was assigned to find out!!!

The question was: did Iraq SEEK uranium from Niger.
The question was not: did Iraq GET uranium from Niger.

Wilson's whole op-ed surrounds the 2nd question, instead of the first, a question that was not even relevant, especially not to the "16 words" which stated that Iraq SOUGHT uranium, not that it actually got it.

Thus right off the bat, Wilson was using a strawman to call the president a liar.

Not only that, but he implied that the administration selected him for the mission, when it was in fact his wife that got the ball rolling for him to go on the trip.

Even more, Wilson did not say one word about the fact that the former Prime Minister of Niger told him that a businessman approached him in what he saw as an overture to acquire uranium for Iraq, which he rebuffed.

Wilson is a discredited liar, and that is exactly why the John Kerry campaign dumped him right after the Senate intelligence report came out in 2004, which proved that Wilson had been lying all along.

In summary, it proved that Rove was right, and that Wilson was lying.

Rove did not blow Plame's cover, as he never told Cooper that she was a covert agent.

The only liar in this whole affair was Wilson, and no one sought to out his wife. The only thing they sought to do is bring up the indisputable fact that Wilson's wife got him the gig in Niger.

From listening and reading Mr. Novak's articles and opinions over the years, I would have thought that he uses the expression for anyone on the left, in particular communists and socialists in addition to covert workers, He belongs to a generation where this was common. It is GENUINE negative. He could use it speaking about Howard Dean, Hillary, or let's say a trade union leader. Not to say that these people are communists or socialist, Social Democrats would also qualify, but in his mind they are. I belong to his generation and could characterize Mr Novak as an operator of some sort.
In my own mind I am not too far off here.

But I hope that Josh is correct as I understand the importance of this, just now.

Call Congress about Karl Rove outing Valerie Plame.
Call all Senators and Representatives and demand that Rove be fired.
1-800-762-8762

Ironically, today is exactly two years after Matthew Cooper's famous conversation with Karl Rove where Rove gave Cooper "a big warning" not to believe Amb. Joseph Wilson's report that refuted the White House's unfounded claim that Iraq got uranium from Niger. Now we have a record of the 7/11/03 exchange between Rove and Cooper. Of course, Rove did not use or say the name of Valerie Plame, but he did say that "Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on WMD issues," authorized Wilson's trip to Niger.
Absolutely not true. But with this statement, Rove outed Valerie Plame as a way to discredit Wilson and his damaging report. This is crime and an impeachable offense. We can no longer ignore what Karl Rove did two years ago. He broke the law, outed a CIA operative, and jeopardized our national security.

The news has become an informercial for the right. I have turned on to see the "news" several times recently, and was shocked to not hear the news. I have to go to Michael Moore's website or AfterDowningStreet.org to find the news. You should call your program something else besides the "news". START REPORTING THE NEWS!!!!

Translated, that means no coverage until someone in the administration broaches the subject first, which of course they never will. By remaining silent about certain issues, the White House effectively controls the media. So despite a public outcry for coverage (by the first week of June, McFeatters had received more than 2,000 e-mails urging her to write about the memo... "the response has never been this intense before..."), it's unlikely that the story will get any more traction until someone in the press actually asks the administration a question, and actually gets an answer. But they won't ask the question until someone in the administration brings it up first. Around and around we go. The circular logic is evident, and it is working the same way with the Karl Rove/Valerie Plame story; no one in the press corps has asked about Turd Blossom's involvement yet, despite daily opportunities to do so. Both the press and the White House are dancing around the elephant in the room. Remember, it takes two to tango.

Newspapers have always been in the business of selling ads, but how I long for the days when the press was also obligated to uncover the truth, rather than just licking the boots of their corporate overlords.

Feel free to email a large chunk of the MSM and tell them Karl Rove is a traitor. Apparently they have not heard his lawyer has not admitted he is the source.

Also, here is the number for CNN. 404-827-1511. They are deliberately burying the story.

The list has been formatted with commas so all you have to do is cut and past into your email program.

I recommend sending them in groups so as not to jam up your server and somewhat hide the fact you are sending a mass email. There are about 15 groups below, so send the same email 15 times. It will take five minutes. (You can send directly to one and put the rest of each group in your ‘BCC’ field to hide all but two recipients)

Keep the email short.

PUT YOUR POINT IN THE SUBJECT LINE. Mine read: Karl Rove has betrayed the United States. REPORT IT!

Feel free to email the list to all your friends, co-workers, and relatives.

You’ll get 20-40 that come back as undeliverable at any given moment.

We can change the world. We can change our country. Have fun, good luck.

HERE ALSO IS AN IDEA BUT ADMITTEDLY, IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO DO.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PRODUCTS ADVERTISED IN THE MAIN STREAM PRINT MEDIA. A NATIONAL BOYCOTT TO WHAT EVER EXTENT IS POSSIBLE COULD BE CALLED FOR TO ANY FIRM THAT ADVERTISES IT'S PRODUCTS IN THESE "NEWS" LESS PAPERS. THE EFFORT COULD BE MADE TO ADVISE THESE NATIONAL AND LOCAL FIRMS THAT IF THEY CONTINUUE TO RUN THEIR ADDS WHICH GIVES BIG BUCKS TO THESE NEWSPAPERS, THEN AN EFFORT WILL BE MADE CALLING FOR CONCERNED CITIZENS TO IMPOSE A BOYCOTT ON THEIR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES TILL THEY TEMPORAIRLY PULL THEIR ADVERTISING DOLLARS BECAUSE AFTER ALL, WITH THE ABSENSE OF GENUINE NEWS, THE PAPER'S ARE NO LONGER "NEWS" PAPER'S BUT SOURCE'S OF PROPAGANDA AND ADVERTISING ONLY. A CALL TO END SUBSCRIPTION'S SHOULD ALSO BE INITIATED BECAUSE SUBSCRIBER'S SUBSCRIBE IN ORDER TO READ THE "NEWS" AND IF THE "NEWS" IS OMITTED, THEN WHAT GOOD IS IT TO RECEIVE THAT SUBSCRIPTION? THINK ABOUT IT. CUT THEIR INCOME DOWN AND THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON THEIR ATTITUDE. IF $$$ IS ALL THEY CARE ABOUT ANYMORE, THEN CAUSE A DRASTIC REDUCTION IN THEIR ALMIGHTY INCOME.
IF DONE JUST "ONE" DAY THIS WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT. HUMPHREY

Get the word out that if you advertise on MSM,
we will not buy your products?

Maybe start a e-mail campaign to these businesses?

I know we raised hell last week when MTV/VH1 (Viacomm)
mangled the LIVE 8 coverage. Once we got some
boycotts of advertisers going, they jumped BIG TIME!!!

I think most folks thought it was just corporate greed to
sell advertising, but there were a lot of people that
thought it was of a more "sinister" nature to undermine
the significance and impact of this pre-G8 event.

To make it successful, pick one product - especially a product that kids like - , a product with alternatives that already exist or that you can suggest, and go after the company that makes that product and go after that product. Believe it or not, companies can be shamed. Shame... think about a kid asking - probably - a father why he is doing something bad that he does not need to be doing. Kids talk and parents can be shamed.

An old "Yippie" technique we used during the Vietnam and
Nixon/Watergate era was to print out the headlines that
the MSM weren't printing on a piece of paper.

We would then go to the coin operated vending machines,
insert our coins, open the box and slide our piece of
paper down in FRONT of the Newspaper on display in the
box door.

What about printing out headlines both about DSM
and the Rove affair, state that these are the stories
being censored, and give the website addresses for
sites such as "www.afterdowningstreet.org" and
"www.whatreallyhappened.com", etc?

Even though, these would be removed as soon as they were
dectected, it definitely provides grass roots exposure
as well as feedback to the media that WE ARE PISSED!!

Just an idea. . . as Buffalo Springfield would say,
"For What It's Worth."

is great for lining under kittypan, paint splatter protectors, wrapping dead fish, and my favorite use: stuffing boxes to protect items I ship to my customers on eBay ( maybe I can ship the DSM news that way too?!).

Isn't it amazing that American MSM were more than willing to report the outing of Wilson's wife, thereby causing great risk and national security breaches. But they are so hesitant to report WHO outed her, like they are protecting Rove!

Feel free to email a large chunk of the MSM and tell them Karl Rove is a traitor. Apparently they have not heard his lawyer has not admitted he is the source.

Also, here is the number for CNN. 404-827-1511. They are deliberately burying the story.

The list has been formatted with commas so all you have to do is cut and past into your email program.

I recommend sending them in groups so as not to jam up your server and somewhat hide the fact you are sending a mass email. There are about 15 groups below, so send the same email 15 times. It will take five minutes. (You can send directly to one and put the rest of each group in your ‘BCC’ field to hide all but two recipients)

Keep the email short.

PUT YOUR POINT IN THE SUBJECT LINE. Mine read: Karl Rove has betrayed the United States. REPORT IT!

Feel free to email the list to all your friends, co-workers, and relatives. Feel free to repost list on your favorite blog or posting forum.

You’ll get 10-20 that come back as undeliverable at any given moment.

We can change the world. We can change our country. Have fun, good luck.

Perhaps it’s better not to reduce ourselves to the level of irritants. An individually addressed email should be much more effective than the spamming approach. Also, I think we should concentrate on legislators as the media has no reason to fear us.

I don't agree. Sending a letter to the media at all is giving them more information than they've given us. I wrote one letter. I will not sit here and cut and paste a hundred or more just to say I've sent out an original. They probably won't read it anyway, and if they do, probably won't respond. I've written close to a hundred original e-mails in the last months to media, congressmen, senators, and the president expressing my concerns. None of them responded. I have other things to do, and don't have a secretary to take care of this for me. It's important that I send the letter, true. Sending them out individually is a waste of time I don't have.

I got this mailing list from a comment on afterdowningstreet.org. I have something to say to the news media in this country. With a few exceptions, you people have maintained silence on issues that are urgent ones. These are my views:

Looking at the evidence that we've been permitted to see (no thanks to you), it becomes clear that Karl Rove did indeed blow Plame's cover. His statement that he never actually identified Ms. Plame by name is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. How many wives did Ambassador Wilson have? People are sent to jail every day on less evidence. To leak the identity of a covert operative in a time of war (or any other time) is an act of treason. How did Rove come by this classified information? Do you think it might have come from the president's Dick Cheyney, who was in and out of the CIA so much during that time? Do you think Dick Cheyney was working to "fix the intelligence around the policy?" If this turns out to be a conspiracy (it's looking more that way every day), does that make you complicit by your silence? I suppose you could pretend ignorance, but I'll never believe that you didn't know what was going on.

Why aren't you investigating? Why are you silent on this and many other issues that Americans need to know about? The words "yellow journalism" kept coming to my mind. I looked it up. It doesn't QUITE fit. The definition I found on google: Refers to sensational stories and "scare" headlines. To me, what you're doing...or NOT doing...seems to be a conspiracy of silence about everything except what BushCo has to say. I can't believe that this administration could possibly intimidate you. All you would have to do is go public and tell the American people what is happening. I've recommended to everyone I know that if they own stock in your companies, they dump your stock and if they want to know why, I refer them to the web.

Americans need truth. I used to depend on the news of the world that I got from you people. Not anymore. Now, I go to the BBC, NPR, Public Television, Raw Story, The Guardian, afterdowningstreet.org. I have stopped listening, reading and watching your programming and recommend the same to everyone I know. Why watch if all we get is fluff and no substance?

Well, perhaps Karl Rove doesn't have a lot of experience with traditional families. According to Wikipedia,

"According to a 2003 New Yorker profile, Rove, the second of five children, found out at nineteen (during his parents divorce negotiations) that the man who raised him was not his biological father. Rove's mother would later commit suicide (in Reno, Nevada in 1981)."

I don't blame Rove for any of that. I just find it utterly fascinating that the party that screams the loudest about Good Traditional Values. And Decency. And a Return To Morality. invariably has these high-level officials with these pasts filled with the very behaviors they (say they) disapprove of.

I guess this is a sign of the times, I called CBS News and told them I have watched them for 45 years and wanted to know why they havent covered Rove or DSM , the guy hung up on me , and they wonder why we say MSM is irrelevant . CBS News 212-975-4321

Democrats should invoke the "extrodinary circumstances" of the filibuster deal and vow to hold up any SCOTUS nomination until a complete and full congressional investigation takes place regarding Plame and DSM.

After all, a traitor in the Whitehouse is "Extrodinary Circumstancs".

Dem leadership should play hardball with this and use this as leverage in the SCOTUS battle. If Cons don't play, Dems can accuse them of a coverup running up to the Midterms. If they do play, perhaps we can get a negotiate nominee that is unacceptable to the Theo-con base and use it as a wedge in the republican party.

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