I’m with EmWJ, temple in the Greater Kansas City Area (awesome equivocal geography). My guess is that it will go into the Kansas City, Kansas side of the river so as not to excite Millennialist fervor.

Anyone know any other live blogs for conference? THis is only my second time participating. It seems that last time I had 2 going — the other one being on timesanseasons.org, but they don’t seem to have one this morning.

“There are plenty of other people spending money on the poor. Let them do their job, and let us do our job.”

I don’t see why we can’t do both? I’m sure Eddy’s and our little luxuries could be used to help out the poor. I don’t think it’s a matter of choosing between temples and the poor. It’s a matter of between movie tickets, Ipods, fast food, books, new electronics, a nice restaurant, new clothes, a car, gas, concerts, sporting events, . . . and the poor.

We don’t typically release fast offering donation figures. One exception I know of was a special fast for Ethiopian famine relief in the late ’80s. The fast offerings collected in one day exceeded the building cost of the Washington DC temple. When I served as a missionary in DC, I was fond of pointing that out to people who complained about building temples and not feeding the poor.

I’ve since found out that fast offerings increase, often dramatically, in an area when a temple goes up. The temples help us focus our attention on the poor and needy, rather than directing our attention away from them.

Generous people, like the LDS, can build temples AND help the poor.

I also noticed that most of the people who leveled the “help the poor instead” charge were driving rather pricy cars and wearing the latest designer duds. In other words, their attitude was “YOU should help the poor more so I don’t have to.”

…There are plenty of other people spending money on the poor. Let them do their job, and let us do our job.

Oh OK, Seth R., so we should just ignore the poor and needy and concentrate on building ostentatious temples? Interesting…I wonder if the Savior shares your opinion? Something tells me the answer is “no”.

I am sick of the argument that all social justice advocates, or other who claim to defend the poor are really middle-class hypocrates. I think we can do both. I am not sure if I can belong to a community that largely agrees with your last comment.

People, no-one is saying don’t build temples and no-one is saying don’t serve the poor. Arguments assuming one or the other of these statements will be initially mocked and then summarily deleted. Proceed.

I think Seth meant that we can do both, and that building temples does not mean we can’t feed the poor.

I had a conversation along these lines recently on a business trip to Argentina. A coworker wanted to know why we spent so much money on a temple (we drove past the temple on the way in from the airport) when there was so much poverty nearby.

I simply explained that we believe the temple is a House of God, and that it is among the holiest of places on the earth, and therefore we put the best materials and workmanship into them as a symbol of our reverence for what takes place in the temple.

That said, I also explained we feed and clothe those in need throughout the world, many of whom do not belong to our church.

I am sick of the argument that all social justice advocates, or other who claim to defend the poor are really middle-class hypocrates. I think we can do both.I am not sure if I can belong to a community that largely agrees with your last comment.

As for Philadelphia, anyone know where specifically? If it includes my stake (Wilmington Delaware) that will certainly help its core – Washington is 2 1/2 hours away and round-trip tolls are now at least $13. Unfortunately it looks like the trip would increase (though not by a whole lot) for our farthest-south meetinghouse (near Salisbury, Maryland.)

The grounds for the Roma temple were selected and purchased a number of years ago. One of my mission companions, who lives in Rome, participated in a meeting where the members gathered at the site and were informed of the purpose of its purchase. That said, there was no firm commitment or construction date. It’s in a very pretty location.

Seth, I apologize for the diversion as well. And by no means do I think money spent on temples is wasted. I think helping the living should be our first priority, though, as HF will ultimately take care of the dead (with our assistance, of course).

I think that Elder F. Enzio Busche had the coolest accent of any general authority. And no, the fact that he gave me a cool, carved neckerchief thingy at a scout encampment in Idaho in the 1980s didn’t cause me to have a bias.

RE: #79
No, Eddie it isn’t, unless you start manufacturing and selling them. Then you have violated the copyright.
By the way, fresh frozen Alaska brother, you might not necessarily have to go back to Missouri. All of North and South America is ‘greater’ Zion, so you might be called to stay in Soldoltna and continue to build up Zion right there. So don’t go wagon & oxen shopping just yet!

I suppose it might be considered inappropriate to offer the following comment on Elder Oaks talk but he needs to lighten up. Talk about pushing kids out of the church. Enough with the white shirts already.

Sanford, instill a deep sense of worship for the sacrament as a sacred ordinance tied to baptism and what’s the big deal negatively about a white shirt? Should we “lighten up” and perform baptisms in any shirt we want to wear?

Obviously there’s nothing wrong with wearing white shirts. As a friend of mine once expressed, there could be half a dozen talks about humility or repentance in conference but if one leader mentions tatoos or white shirts invariably that’s what sticks in members’ minds because its more specific. Fine, maybe they think the priests should wear white shirts when the bless the sacrament, but is GC the best forum to dress that? Priests in the wards I’ve been in always wear white shirts, I’ve never noticed that this is something Aaronic priesthood doesn’t comply with in the US at least. What message does it send that the leaders think this is important enough to address in GC?

You know I have no problem with white shirts been suggested/required for doing ordinances. My problem stems from the idea that this means males only look right with white shirts at church. That I find a bit much.

I recall when Elder Holland gave his original white shirt/sacrament talk. For a long time, our ward would not permit anyone to officiate in the Sacrament who was not wearing a white shirt. FWIW, the current handbook encourages white shirts, but explicitly states that wearing a white shirt should not be imposed as an mandatory requirement to administer the Sacrament. Thus, in the last year or so, we have had some newly converted brethren administer the Sacrament even when they have forgotten to wear a white shirt that day, and the same with youth.

I wonder if our ward and others will now return to the prior practice of imposes it as an almost absolute requirement.

Sanford and Chris, We are facing a situation where many in the “rising generation” (and others, as bluntly as I can put this) are losing a sense of the sacredness of the sacrament. To address that, a prophet of God delivered a talk emphasizing the need to everything possible to maintain that sacredness in out hearts and minds. Somehow, I think deepening one’s appreciation for the ordinance is more important than worrying about allowing young men to dress however they want to dress while administering a gospel ordinance.

I don’t think anybody said anything about not wearing a white shirt or not focusing on the ordinance or its sacredness at sacrament meeting but I’m sure whoever that person is meets with our severest condemnation.

‘Moronee’ is how many members in the world say it, depending on what language is your native language. I’ve always enjoyed Elder Uchtdorf’s subtle references to his native language. I think many members around the world who are listening right now will appreciate this too.

I remember in the ward where I grew up, the Priests would often be smoking in the parking lot during Sunday School, but as long as they had white shirts on, they were good to go on performing the Sacrament ordinance.

For all the focus on white shirts, I’m thrilled that something was said about worthiness. I’ll take a nice kid in a black shirt over a white-frocked fornicator any day.

Hope and faith aren’t bad topics to ponder as I sit here listening to Conference and working at one of the largest mortgage banks in the US. There’s precious little of either here, and Pepto-Bismol has become a major source of nutrition.

So Michael, how much of that $700 billion is your ocmpany getting? I think I may start biking to work so I can get that $240 per year tax credit that was part of the additional $150 billion in pork that got the bill to pass.

What??? How am I making it a problem? Oh I get it, If one challenges other members notion’s that have no basis in Scripture I’m causing a problem. I’ll have to remember that so I can march in lockstep with you and the other uber-orthodox in the future.

You know, as a three-year convert I’m increasingly doubting my decision…The Gospel is still true but I wonder if the church is for me when I have conversations like this.

How is it a problem to help members view the sacrament as a sacred intermediate ordinance between baptism and the temple by asking those who administer it, where possible, to wear white – just as is worn to perform baptism and temple ordinances? How – exactly – is that a problem?

mfranti, that hymn has gotten me through a lot of rough spots as well. And the choir’s performance was lovely. We had a rare moment of quiet in the house as they were singing so we could really hear it. Peace. Peace. Peace.

Tony, in the interest of full disclosure, I have not supported those who insist on white shirts to pass the sacrament before today. I have made the same kind of arguments that others have made.

I have never heard it framed as Elder Oaks framed it, and it really resonated with me when he did so. To be called an uber-orthodox member for changing a stance I’ve held before because I was touched by a prophet’s words and felt they were inspired is a unique experience for me. As of yesterday, I was in the “what’s the big deal” camp; as of today, I’m not. I’ve never been in the “it’s a huge problem” camp, but I certainly moved my tent today.

#184 – I’m not getting a dime of that money. I’m just a lowly vice president, and I sold all my stock last year when the company announced they were outsourcing most IT, help desk, and customer service functions to India. That kept me out of a 75% drop.

A temple in Cordoba! And in Rome! I’m so excited and emotionally moved by these two particular announcements. Cordoba is not far from my family, and I only wish I could take them through as visitors during the Open House before the dedication.

I wish Elder Oaks had commented more on the prayers offered during Sacrament meeting, specifically about the sex of those who offer opening prayers. This has been a painful issue in our ward these past few months.

Good link, patricia, but I have to say, I have never, not ever been in a ward where women didn’t give opening prayers. In my home ward, women are regularly giving both the invocation and benediction, and sometimes all the talks in between!

I guess for those places where things are all twisted around, a word from the GC pulpit would be a great clarifier.

Elder Oaks spoke on the sacrament at his last MTC talk (September), and has given another talk on it as well in General Conference. It clearly matters to him a lot. After the MTC talk, I vowed to get my son to church (we are always late) in time for the sacrament hymn, not just for the sacrament.

Elder Uchtdorf’s themes: Joy and hope. I always look forward to his talks. He is clearly in a position to talk about those themes; he radiates both.

I do wonder about the phrase “appropriate music” as Elder Oaks expressed it. Has the sense of what’s “appropriate” changed since the early days of the Church, and will it evolve in the next twenty years as we become less Utah/Euro-centric?

Seth, no I wouldn’t leave over just a white shirt (that would never happen, anyway…I always wear a white shirt to church) but I would leave over rampant “Pharisaical-ism” that forces others to wear a white shirt and then deems that person as somehow less righteous because they don’t follow some unwritten edict. The white shirt thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

That’s very interesting that woman aren’t giving opening prayers in your wards. I suppose there could be some deviousness afoot but I would more likely attribute it to a ward executive secretary that may be uncomfortable call Sister So-and-so early Sunday morning to give the prayer.

As noted above, the current handbook specifically states that white shirts are desirable for Sacrament administration, but should not be enforced as a rigid mandatory prerequisite to administer the Sacrament. I do not think Elder Holland’s and Elder Oaks’ encouragement of white shirts changes either component of that.

I hope bishops who listened to the talk will take into account both components of the handbook’s policy. If a young man (or in wards with few young men) and adult does not happen to wear a white shirt on a Sunday, I do not think either Elder Oaks or Elder Holland would suggest that they should be automatically disqualified from administering the Sacrament that Sunday.

Unfortunately, Brewhaha (223), it’s not that at all, because women have given the opening prayer in our ward. However, in a recent Sacrament meeting, in which two members of our stake presidency were present, a sister who had offered to pray in place of her sick-at-home husband (who had originally been scheduled to pray) was told at the pulpit, essentially, “Thank you, but no thank you. We appreciate your offer, but a priesthood holder must open our Sacrament meetings with prayer. Brother So-and-so, would you please offer us our opening prayer this morning?”

Yes, a word would have helped.

Good point, Seth R.(220), on preferring not to have Sacrament meeting at the end of the 3-hour block.

That’s a bishop or stake president rule. I’ve never been in a ward with rules about one sex only being allowed to give the opening or closing prayer, or who speaks last, but others have, so it’s not a Church rule.