Hey you Phil's out there, I am trying to help out our band to get our sound less muddy and get our frequencies in check. I was wondering if the bass players out there have any amp settings they would like to share to help out. For instance how much of what you use to get a good phil stage tone. Thanks!

It's not really as simple as amp settings, IMHO, although the guitars and keys should definitely take the low end out of their rigs - that's key to cleaning up some space for your bass player to work.

As for the bass sound, he should use flatwounds and a pick. The flats take out the bass's high frequencies and the pick gives the bass sound a strong initial attack. You can't be sustaining long notes on the bass, that just makes mud without adding anything interesting.

I am not a "Phil", but do play the bass a bit and mix some bands as well.

One of the biggest problems I find in indistinct or muddy bass is an EQ that is bass heavy. It seems some folks feel that they need to increase the low frequencies on the bass amp to sound like a bass. I find quite the opposite and that if your hearing mud in the bass, cut the bass and low-mid a bit. Perhaps increase the mids a tad. Adjust the EQ in small increments always.

Different speaker cabs and rooms can change this equation of course and no set EQ will work in all rooms or with all cabs.

The bass player is already playing a "bass", so I error to the side of "let's not ADD bass to the "bass" unless it's absolutely necessary.

He is using a Hammer American custom bass, Hartke amp, 4x10 cab and a 1x15 cab. He also has an effects rack unit he sparingly uses and a pedal I am not sure what it is. He knows what he is doing, he never over does things.

The amp has a parametric EQ like a boogie, actually way more involved, and he was able to boost the volume a little more and remove some bottom end, by what he said. He seems real into testing out some neat ideas, but I think he has always kept his bass thin with low frequency amplification or run with it at a low setting. He keeps things somewhat in the middle, he pushed it a little farther promoting some more mids and low mids, cutting more of the low and low low, and keeping the high somewhere he thought was best. He liked it, and said its similar to what he had before anyway, but he could here the notes better. I could not really tell, we didn't make a recording, but he did sound good.

JonnyBoy wrote:Hey you Phil's out there, I am trying to help out our band to get our sound less muddy and get our frequencies in check. I was wondering if the bass players out there have any amp settings they would like to share to help out. For instance how much of what you use to get a good phil stage tone. Thanks!

hate to break your stones but Phil In the 80-90's use 10+ Amps at a time so the setting of his amps probley will never be replicated. I Am a Bass player my self and i just play it how it sonds with a few adjustments of my own. I do suggest taking the Musd out because your trying to be Phil Lesh Not Gene Simmons

JonnyBoy wrote:Hey you Phil's out there, I am trying to help out our band to get our sound less muddy and get our frequencies in check. I was wondering if the bass players out there have any amp settings they would like to share to help out. For instance how much of what you use to get a good phil stage tone. Thanks!

hate to break your stones but Phil In the 80-90's use 10+ Amps at a time so the setting of his amps probley will never be replicated. I Am a Bass player my self and i just play it how it sonds with a few adjustments of my own. I do suggest taking the Musd out because your trying to be Phil Lesh Not Gene Simmons

Jason Lee?

I don't really know what you are talking about and I get the sense that you are probably not old enough to have been there in the 80s and 90s. Phil never used 10+ amps. His rigs have always been moderately sophisticated, but somewhat straightforward. I've seen him since 1976 and his rigs have never really been a mysterious affair. Over the years, the tone control setup has basically gone from Fender style (through the Alembic years as well) to SWR to Eden. He's used Meyer EQs, but mostly for room and stage equalization.

To get to the real bottom of this issue, in order to get big bottom with no mud, you need to use very clean gear with a lot of power and headroom. Getting a flat frequency response without the typical big low mid/upper bass humps that happen with most bass amps is key. Having distortion from lack of power or non-linear loudspeakers also creates muddiness. I've been playing through fEARful cabinets these days which have a heck of lot more real low end than any other cabinet I've used and it does not interfere with PA systems. Since I've gone with these cabs, I've been crazy loud on stage and every time I ask the FOH engineer how it works outside, they smile and say it works great.

And, seriously, Phil Lesh 101, use a spell check. Taking the extra 30 seconds to put together a coherent and well spelled post gives you a hell of a lot more credibility. It's like being able to play in tune, in time and in the right key. And we all need to do that as bass players, right?

JonnyBoy wrote:Hey you Phil's out there, I am trying to help out our band to get our sound less muddy and get our frequencies in check. I was wondering if the bass players out there have any amp settings they would like to share to help out. For instance how much of what you use to get a good phil stage tone. Thanks!

hate to break your stones but Phil In the 80-90's use 10+ Amps at a time so the setting of his amps probley will never be replicated. I Am a Bass player my self and i just play it how it sonds with a few adjustments of my own. I do suggest taking the Musd out because your trying to be Phil Lesh Not Gene Simmons

Jason Lee?

I don't really know what you are talking about and I get the sense that you are probably not old enough to have been there in the 80s and 90s. Phil never used 10+ amps. His rigs have always been moderately sophisticated, but somewhat straightforward. I've seen him since 1976 and his rigs have never really been a mysterious affair. Over the years, the tone control setup has basically gone from Fender style (through the Alembic years as well) to SWR to Eden. He's used Meyer EQs, but mostly for room and stage equalization.

To get to the real bottom of this issue, in order to get big bottom with no mud, you need to use very clean gear with a lot of power and headroom. Getting a flat frequency response without the typical big low mid/upper bass humps that happen with most bass amps is key. Having distortion from lack of power or non-linear loudspeakers also creates muddiness. I've been playing through fEARful cabinets these days which have a heck of lot more real low end than any other cabinet I've used and it does not interfere with PA systems. Since I've gone with these cabs, I've been crazy loud on stage and every time I ask the FOH engineer how it works outside, they smile and say it works great.

And, seriously, Phil Lesh 101, use a spell check. Taking the extra 30 seconds to put together a coherent and well spelled post gives you a hell of a lot more credibility. It's like being able to play in tune, in time and in the right key. And we all need to do that as bass players, right?

Yes I am to young to have been at a Grateful Dead Concert, And Your Probley to old to be on a computer. So lay off man. Just because your hair is turning Gray dosent mean you can come up here like you the big bad John.. Like i was saying Phil Had a BIG rig He had 4 18' Speakers With another 4 15' Speakers on top, That needs alot of power so 1 125W amp Just wont do it. And yes I Am not old enough to have been there but i Have seen more Veiw From The Vault Footage to know, you think just because i wasnt there it means i dont have a clue what im talking about?

JonnyBoy wrote:Hey you Phil's out there, I am trying to help out our band to get our sound less muddy and get our frequencies in check. I was wondering if the bass players out there have any amp settings they would like to share to help out. For instance how much of what you use to get a good phil stage tone. Thanks!

hate to break your stones but Phil In the 80-90's use 10+ Amps at a time so the setting of his amps probley will never be replicated. I Am a Bass player my self and i just play it how it sonds with a few adjustments of my own. I do suggest taking the Musd out because your trying to be Phil Lesh Not Gene Simmons

Jason Lee?

I don't really know what you are talking about and I get the sense that you are probably not old enough to have been there in the 80s and 90s. Phil never used 10+ amps. His rigs have always been moderately sophisticated, but somewhat straightforward. I've seen him since 1976 and his rigs have never really been a mysterious affair. Over the years, the tone control setup has basically gone from Fender style (through the Alembic years as well) to SWR to Eden. He's used Meyer EQs, but mostly for room and stage equalization.

To get to the real bottom of this issue, in order to get big bottom with no mud, you need to use very clean gear with a lot of power and headroom. Getting a flat frequency response without the typical big low mid/upper bass humps that happen with most bass amps is key. Having distortion from lack of power or non-linear loudspeakers also creates muddiness. I've been playing through fEARful cabinets these days which have a heck of lot more real low end than any other cabinet I've used and it does not interfere with PA systems. Since I've gone with these cabs, I've been crazy loud on stage and every time I ask the FOH engineer how it works outside, they smile and say it works great.

And, seriously, Phil Lesh 101, use a spell check. Taking the extra 30 seconds to put together a coherent and well spelled post gives you a hell of a lot more credibility. It's like being able to play in tune, in time and in the right key. And we all need to do that as bass players, right?

Here you go read and weap www.musicencyclopedia2004.com 1. go to Musicains gear to the left 2. Go under P" and find phil lesh 3. Read the info and apoligize

You really need to figure out who you're talking to before you mouth off. You also need to read your own link, which is just a rehash of info that's on the web elsewhere, which says that Phil at one point had 8 POWER AMPS (not 10+) in his stage rig, not that big of a deal and not at all hard to replicate. At one point in the 90's when Phish got big enough to play arenas, Mike Gordon (who EEEEE knows personally) replicated Phil's rig exactly. It just takes time, money, patience, and a U-haul to move it, and there's no point for those of us who play club gigs.

And your spelling is pretty bad, a pet peeve of mine, which makes it harder for the reader to decipher what you're trying to say.

EEEEE's info is good. If you want 60's/70's Phil amp tone, use a Fender/Alembic/SMS preamp into a clean power amp and neutral speakers and you'll be in the ballpark. If you want his 80's/90's tone, use SWR gear. For his newer tones, use Eden gear. The preamp shapes the tone, the power amp should be neutral, and the speakers can either be neutral or tone-shaping or mostly irrelevant if you've got good PA support.