Of course Gus would have to go to a franchise entirely bereft of pass rushing talent. That's right, Jax finished DEAD LAST in the NFL in sacks during the regular season at a pathetic 20. Alualu was their sack leader, recording a whopping 3.5 sacks...

Still, I'll take that from a DT.

Last edited by CodeWarrior on Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

CodeWarrior wrote:Of course Gus would have to go to a franchise entirely bereft of pass rushing talent. That's right, Jax finished DEAD LAST in the NFL in sacks during the regular season at a pathetic 20. Alualu was their sack leader, recording a whopping 3.5 sacks...

Still, I'll take that from a DT.

I don't profess to watch a ton of Jags games (just like most people in Jacksonville <rimshot>) but Alualu looks like he brings a TON of pressure up the middle. We need that (desperately) and at 295 he's big enough to play 3 downs and stuff the run.

I'd be thrilled to hear we worked out some kind of trade involving Flynn for Alualu.

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CodeWarrior wrote:Of course Gus would have to go to a franchise entirely bereft of pass rushing talent. That's right, Jax finished DEAD LAST in the NFL in sacks during the regular season at a pathetic 20. Alualu was their sack leader, recording a whopping 3.5 sacks...

Still, I'll take that from a DT.

I don't profess to watch a ton of Jags games (just like most people in Jacksonville <rimshot>) but Alualu looks like he brings a TON of pressure up the middle. We need that (desperately) and at 295 he's big enough to play 3 downs and stuff the run.

I'd be thrilled to hear we worked out some kind of trade involving Flynn for Alualu.

I'm pretty sure that Gus, being a defensive guy, wouldn't go for it. He knows who the best players on the D are there and he's not going to trade one of them away.

Barkley is a real wild card in all of this. He is the one player that Pete has a crush on even more than Wilson. Pete might have a hard time passing on him if he is still on the board. How crazy would that be having another QB competition next training camp.

I was listening to Mitch in the Morning today and they had a report from Jax on for an interview and he said that they are already talking about targeting Alan Branch over there, and that they likely would be interested in any players the hawks would send them, including Flynn.

It will be interesting to see if Branch proves to be a hot commodity in free agency.

Jared Stanger over at Field Gulls also has a good article up on the idea of trading Flynn. He brings up some excellent points -- namely ...

1) Trading Flynn would create between $8-13 Million in value that could be used elsewhere in adding needed Free Agents.

2) Flynn's contract is actually a fairly reasonable one -- especially if you're talking about a starting QB.

3) Overall, this is a very weak draft class for quarterbacks -- there many be no better time to cash in on and maximize Flynn's value to another team than now.

4) Though we've heard commentators like John Clayton talk many times about how Flynn would fetch nothing more than a 7th Round pick ... history says that teams tend to overpay for quarterbacks. Just a few names from recent history ...

(2006) Baltimore traded a 4th Round Pick to the Titans for Steve McNair (who was 33 at the time)

(2008) Kansas City traded a high 2nd Round Pick (#34) to the Patriots to get Matt Cassell and LB Matt Vrabel.

(2010) we traded a 3rd Round Pick to San Diego for Charlie Whitehurst

(2011) Oakland traded a 1st AND 2nd Round Pick to the Bengals for Carson Palmer (who was also 33 at the time)

Whether we're talking about deals for guys like these ... or draft choices like Blaine Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, Christian Ponder, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and tons of others throughout the years ... teams have a propensity for overpaying for quarterbacks.

Therefore, I have to agree with the overall sentiment that some team out there will be willing to overpay for Flynn as well. Personally, I'm thinking that a 3rd Round Choice for Flynn sounds about right.

Why do we think anyone would trade for him when nobody else even wanted to sign him last year? We think losing his starting job and sitting on the bench all year somehow makes him more valuable? I don't get it.

CodeWarrior wrote:Of course Gus would have to go to a franchise entirely bereft of pass rushing talent. That's right, Jax finished DEAD LAST in the NFL in sacks during the regular season at a pathetic 20. Alualu was their sack leader, recording a whopping 3.5 sacks...

Still, I'll take that from a DT.

I don't profess to watch a ton of Jags games (just like most people in Jacksonville <rimshot>) but Alualu looks like he brings a TON of pressure up the middle. We need that (desperately) and at 295 he's big enough to play 3 downs and stuff the run.

I'd be thrilled to hear we worked out some kind of trade involving Flynn for Alualu.

I'm pretty sure that Gus, being a defensive guy, wouldn't go for it. He knows who the best players on the D are there and he's not going to trade one of them away.

Maybe so, but Gus isn't calling the shots. He didn't get "Pete Carroll level" control down there. JAX is having a huge attendance problem down there and what's one of the easiest ways to instil false hope in the fanbase and get some tickets sold? Wheel in a saviour QB. Flynn has all those highlights from those two games in GB they could show on TV to try and sell some tickets.

This is the same franchise with the owner who says he'd love to have Tebow and the GM that says he has no intention of trading for him. That has future discunction written ALL OVER it. I wonder what the behind the scenes conversations sound like down there? Trading for a totally different quarterback might be a way for the GM to get the owner off his back on the Tebow front.

I'm not saying it's a slam dunk, but never say never...

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And I don't like the idea of drafting and developing Barkley just to try and trade him away for a "higher pick." Considering that we'd probably have to spend our 1st rounder on him, that makes it difficult to fetch a more valuable package for him down the road. I can get behind drafting a QB for development in the middle rounds, but not in the 1st, no matter how big Carroll's "mancrush" on Barkley is.

Hawkstorian wrote:Why do we think anyone would trade for him when nobody else even wanted to sign him last year? We think losing his starting job and sitting on the bench all year somehow makes him more valuable? I don't get it.

Because few teams needed him the year that an elite QB class was available in the draft. Flynn is one of the few candidates available whose stock has remained the same this year, at the very worst, or even slightly improved since he handled the year and frustration of not starting with class.

Hawkstorian wrote:Why do we think anyone would trade for him when nobody else even wanted to sign him last year? We think losing his starting job and sitting on the bench all year somehow makes him more valuable? I don't get it.

It's basic Supply and Demand here. Let's take a brief whizz around the NFL and just list off how many teams are really in the need for a quarterback ...

Kansas CityJacksonvillePhiladelphia (it's highly unlikely that Vick is back in 2013. Foles might be the guy, but maybe not)ArizonaNY JetsMinnesota (I'm not sold on Ponder at all and Webb as a backup -- oof!)

Those are just 6 that I listed off the top of my head who could legitimately be looking for help for starting QB help. Now, the issue here (which could really favor Seattle) is that Supply-wise, there's really aren't a ton of guys out there who you could look at as potential starters.

In terms of the draft, you're basically talking about Geno Smith and Matt Barkley (whom I would sit ideally, but he could handle starting IMO.) Looking up and down the draft board, I'm really not seeing anyone else who could really step in right away (I don't know that I see a Russell Wilson in this class).

On the Free Agent side of things, I'm going to first of all assume that Joe Flacco isn't going anywhere. So, take him off the list. That leaves the following guys out there in the market:

Jason CampbellTavaris JacksonMatt MooreDrew StantonSeneca Wallace

If I'm one of those teams, I'm looking at the available list of Free Agents ... and looking at what's available through the draft and I'm asking myself, "Would a 3rd or 4th Round Choice make sense for a Matt Flynn?" Given what's available out there and the fact that his contract isn't overwhelming by any means, my answer probably would be -- Yes. Therefore, I'd be looking for some team to seriously come kicking the tires on him this offseason.

To pile on scanner's post, KC makes immediate sense. I could throw for 2,500 and 18 TD's under Reid, pretty sure Flynn would thrive there. That's a talented team, in a poor division, with a great running game. Add Flynn, and you're at 8 wins, MINIMUM.

I can't believe how people tend to devalue Flynn. 1. There is a high demand for QB this year with very little help in the draft. 2. Flynn is a known quantity3. Swapping places in the 1st or 2nd round is a plausible trade value4. At minimum, Matt Flynn, a starting caliber QB is worth a 3rd rounder, especially with his reasonable contract.5. There are teams whose window does not allow for them to bring a QB up to speed and none of the QBs except for Barkley are ready to come in and start right away. 6. As mentioned above, history shows that teams are willing to give up good draft picks for QBs. Hell, they will give up 4th and 5th rounders for Tim Tebow and Josh Wilson! 7. Teams that could use a new QBBuffaloJetsBrownsJaguarsKCRaidersEaglesCardinals

8. Teams that need a good backup QBMiamiTitansDallasBears!VikingsPanthersTampa Bay (Freeman could use a good benching)

Personally, I think Flynn is worth someone moving back in the 1st round in order to get him. Or a mid-late 2nd round pick straight up. And if Clayton thinks he is only worth a 7th, then he's losing it.

pehawk wrote:To pile on scanner's post, KC makes immediate sense. I could throw for 2,500 and 18 TD's under Reid, pretty sure Flynn would thrive there. That's a talented team, in a poor division, with a great running game. Add Flynn, and you're at 8 wins, MINIMUM.

Yeah if he goes anywhere I believe it'll be KC. He's an excellent fit for Reid's nearly pure west coast offense. I'll say now if it comes down, we get their 4th for him which of course is the 2nd pick in that round so almost a late 3rd.

As for Jacksonville, the owner will install Tebow as the starter to sell tix IMO. It'll fail miserably because Tebow is not an NFL QB and Gus will be starting all over again next year. For Bradley's sake I do hope I'm wrong.

I think Reid would want to draft and nurture his own QB. After the Casell signing and eventual failure, the new GM and HC would need to be sensitive to the fanbase and ownership's previous experience. If it is something Reid wants, I am sure he won't get much grief but I think he would rather develop his own. Then again he was involved in the Vick signing, so what do I know?

I am not sure Jags GM Caldwell would want to make signing Flynn his first player related move. Henne was going to be in the mix if Mularkey remained, wonder what the owner's feel is on bringing in a 3rd QB. Tough deal with Gabbert having issues getting established with the club.

Hawkstorian wrote:Why do we think anyone would trade for him when nobody else even wanted to sign him last year? We think losing his starting job and sitting on the bench all year somehow makes him more valuable? I don't get it.

Damn it Hawkstorian, you're smarter than that. The QB market last year was the oddest EVER. Manning and the class of '83 revisited, w/ the #2 pick on the block. Every team thought they could get a franchise 1st rounder, under the rookie CBA rules, Flynn didn't stand a chance.

drdiags wrote:I think Reid would want to draft and nurture his own QB. After the Casell signing and eventual failure, the new GM and HC would need to be sensitive to the fanbase and ownership's previous experience. If it is something Reid wants, I am sure he won't get much grief but I think he would rather develop his own. Then again he was involved in the Vick signing, so what do I know?

I am not sure Jags GM Caldwell would want to make signing Flynn his first player related move. Henne was going to be in the mix if Mularkey remained, wonder what the owner's feel is on bringing in a 3rd QB. Tough deal with Gabbert having issues getting established with the club.

You know plenty and your point about Reid is a good one. Still I can see Flynn as a bridge type so Reid can nurture his own guy along since Matt is a good fit for Andy's offense. Plus he actually could develop into something more than stopgap in that system IMO so it's win/win. As for the fans, you sell them on him as the 'right fit here but not in Seattle' and 'we plan on drafting a young guy and bringing him along' and so on and so forth. Maybe not and maybe I'm just wishful thinking but because he's such a good fit in that type of offense it makes a great deal of sense and damn it, I'm stubbornly clinging to this until it does or doesn't happen.

I like the idea HFSD1 of the Reid selling point for Matt as a bridge until he can get his program established. Sort of like Pederson (I think) before McNabb was ready to take over (if my memory is correct of the early Eagles transition to McNabb).

drdiags wrote:I think Reid would want to draft and nurture his own QB. After the Casell signing and eventual failure, the new GM and HC would need to be sensitive to the fanbase and ownership's previous experience. If it is something Reid wants, I am sure he won't get much grief but I think he would rather develop his own. Then again he was involved in the Vick signing, so what do I know?

Very true, but Flynn could be an excellent bridge quarterback in KC while that Andy Reid developmental quarterback of the future erm... develops. Flynn is ready to start right now. He was ready to start last year, but divine intervention delivered Russell Wilson to us. That pure west coast system Andy uses was taylor made for a guy like Matt Flynn. Matt Flynn could be Matt Hasselbeck 2.0 in a system like that.

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Given the Supply and Demand Issue (the fact that there aren't a lot of decent starting QB's out there), Matt Flynn getting traded this offseason makes FAR too sense. This is one that I'm basically taking to the bank and saying that this is going to happen.

Hawkscanner wrote:Given the Supply and Demand Issue (the fact that there aren't a lot of decent starting QB's out there), Matt Flynn getting traded this offseason makes FAR too sense. This is one that I'm basically taking to the bank and saying that this is going to happen.

Poor Traumahawk and his new Matt Flynn Seahawks jersey...

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I'd say KC, Jacksonville, Buffalo, and NYJ would all be contenders for a QB trade. Geno Smith will go to one of the four teams, and the Jets seemed married to Flynn. I think we will likely end up getting a top 5 pick in the 3rd round for him.

pehawk wrote:Reid AINT going to draft a high pick QB. Why would he? This is a dude thats made; Vick, Foles, Garcia, Kolb and even KAFKA good QB's. It'd be like investing a high draft pick at OL for Cable.

pehawk wrote:Reid AINT going to draft a high pick QB. Why would he? This is a dude thats made; Vick, Foles, Garcia, Kolb and even KAFKA good QB's. It'd be like investing a high draft pick at OL for Cable.

On the positive side, I think this topic is on to something. Jacksonville NEEDS a QB, and they may not love this year's options. Why not trade for Flynn on the cheap? He'd be at worst a middle of the road starter that could keep the seat warm while you figure out who your long term starter is. When Mangini went to Cleveland he targeted a lot of Jets players to bring with him. Makes a lot of sense.

pehawk wrote:Reid AINT going to draft a high pick QB. Why would he? This is a dude thats made; Vick, Foles, Garcia, Kolb and even KAFKA good QB's. It'd be like investing a high draft pick at OL for Cable.

McNabb?

McNabb was when he first got there. Well after he made hey with the list of of also-rans and whos I listed. Wasn't it his first pick? C'mon.

Carpenter was a pick Seattle really didn't want. And, that was before maybe even Cable realized how good he is.

The Cable thing isn't just me. I did hear Rang mention last year that there would be no way the Hawks would consider DeCastro because "Cable can make anyone good, so why?"

ivotuk wrote:I can't believe how people tend to devalue Flynn. 1. There is a high demand for QB this year with very little help in the draft. There was high demand last year, and his market was ice cold.2. Flynn is a known quantity. Perhaps in Green Bay. I don't think anyone has any idea what he'd look like without GB's receivers (probably a pancake), but last year's market gives us a hint.3. Swapping places in the 1st or 2nd round is a plausible trade value I think a 6th rounder at most is plausible trade value4. At minimum, Matt Flynn, a starting caliber QB is worth a 3rd rounder, especially with his reasonable contract. He needs to prove himself a starting caliber QB first.5. There are teams whose window does not allow for them to bring a QB up to speed and none of the QBs except for Barkley are ready to come in and start right away. True, but even if the young QB's this year aren't perfect, they've probably still got more name recognition and ticket-selling vibe around them that Matt Flynn.6. As mentioned above, history shows that teams are willing to give up good draft picks for QBs. Hell, they will give up 4th and 5th rounders for Tim Tebow and Josh Wilson! And Deion Branch. No doubt teams get stupid. This remains the primary hope of Flynn getting us more than a 7th. But there are always desperate teams every year.7. Teams that could use a new QBBuffalo Jets They're stuck with Sanchez and might like McElroy as a cheap stopgap while they slog out of cap hellBrowns They might or might not give up on Weeden so quickJaguars KC BarkleyRaiders Eagles Between Vick and Foles, they might not be looking, but new coach does suggest new QB.Cardinals See Eagles. But keep in mind, last year several teams were just as desperate, and still nobody cared for Flynn. It's hard to get around that.

8. Teams that need a good backup QB are not going to give up anything more than a 7th to get him.MiamiTitansDallasBears!VikingsPanthersTampa Bay (Freeman could use a good benching)

Personally, I think Flynn is worth someone moving back in the 1st round in order to get him. Or a mid-late 2nd round pick straight up. And if Clayton thinks he is only worth a 7th, then he's losing it.

I'm sorry, I just see this as wishful thinking. Why are we just so plaintively desperate for an extra 2nd-3rd round pick when we do so well with our 5ths?