Floater Certificates?

Saw this on FT today. The Starwood representative posted today that "floatercertificates" under the new combined SPG/Marriott program will be canceled. normanp what floatercertificates? are these the categoriy 1-5 certificates SPG members earn for hitting 50 nights each year? If so, does this means if we earn the free night certificate before the August 1st date, Marriott will then turn around, cancel it and then convert them to equivalent points(12,000 Starpoints/36,000 Marriott points) into our account?

bejacob looks like this will affect Marriott certificates/Travel packages also, so I'm tagging you also for help understanding this.

I'll take a stab - but again, like most stuff these days, this is speculative;

Floater certificates to me, are Certificates that don't have reservations attached to them.

As good as the Starwood Lurker is, even he (assuming it's William) can't break through the infamous Marriott Ambiguity;

the key phrase in this update (one of only a very few, as tidbits of useful info are ever so slowly let out by Intergalactic) is

equivalent. What the heck does equivalent mean in Marriott vagueness?

One would of course think (using common sense, which nowadays isn't so common) that equivalent meant that it would be at least what current value is; i.e. if you have a Cat. 5 certificate it would convert to 25,000 points (regardless of it's comp value post August). But the fly in that ointment is, if they do that for Travel Packages (which who knows, they might) then folks like yours truly would gladly secure Travel Packages pre-August just for the attractive airline miles to hotel points ratio and gladly deposit the points back into our account - but do we really think Marriott would provide that opportunity? Perhaps they will, daring us to secure Floaters and take our chances.

As I wrote earlier this week, I'm fortunate to actually want a spot in the summer next year with a real reservation, so I'll be on the sidelines rooting for Insiders to come out ahead (I don't think I could handle the gamble). Aah, once again more Marriott integration magic without clarity. Let the speculation begin. Good luck to all

However after reading more information on FT, I located more info on floater certificates (my first time hearing this term LOL) Now I'm curiouson how this refund process for unused SPG "One Free Night Award" and Travel Package Certificates will be calculated by Marriott on August 1.

I had a up to Cat 5 certificate from one of the megabonus promos. I had it attached to a hotel that switched categories, from Cat 5 to Cat 6 after I had reserved my free night. Now when I look at my reservation, it shows that I have paid for it with 30,000 points and my cert. is gone. I hope that they just converted it to the equivalent but did not go back to double check. I have one more up to Cat 5 cert from my Marriott credit card that is due to expire in Jan. 2019, I haven't thought about what I should do with it.

Agree with bejacob, remember starting 1 August, there is no such thing as "lifetime points" in the new program, so it wouldn't be able to add to a non-existent thing. The only way they will add to legacy program lifetime points is if there is a unintended glitch - which very well may happen!

o0o0o0o0o0o...points! that can't possibly be correct, those whom don't combine their accounts will certainly still have and be earning lifetime points until December 31, otherwise there would be no path to legacy lifetime status.

That's 100% correct - there are no lifetime points in the new program. I didn't say anything about being able to still qualify under legacy program rules and still earning points to qualify under legacy program rules. After 1 August, those certificate point values would be refunded under the new program.

Wait, if there is no such thing as lifetime points after August, how are we supposed to achieve our lifetime by the end of the year? I truly hope there will still be lifetime points as long as we choose to not "convert" over to the new program. I'm not going to finish by August especially since everything at SPG and Marriott is soooo slow right now.

I think you are missing the point - I never said there's no such thing as lifetime points in general after August - there are no lifetime points in the new program(which starts in August). I didn't say anything about being able to still qualify under legacy programrules and still earning lifetime points to qualify under legacy program rules. From 1 August through 31 December 2018, you will still be able to earn points toward legacy lifetime status, but they do not count as "lifetime points" in the new program because there is no such thing. Starting in 2019, the complete concept of lifetime points will be gone, because there will not be legacy programs anymore.

Thanks o0o0o0o0o0o...points!. I did partially misunderstand you. I'm just wondering since there are no lifetime points in the new program, how do I collect legacy points? For example, do I only get 400 points for a stay at a Courtyard out of the 500 that count towards my lifetime? Or do I not get any since the welcome gift is under the new program? Or do I get the full 500 because the Marriott programmers don't seem smart enough to write that many nest IF statements?

I understand there are changes. The irritating is the dropping of bits of info here and there rather than Marriott having a cohesive plan completely put together before announcing.

Good points, but you can only get the points that are offered to you, so any points you earn after 1 August count toward legacy lifetime status for 5 full months. The legacy rules were extended without clarification on the points side, so any points that you'd earn under legacy rules (whatever the amounts are since some amounts will change) should still count as lifetime points.

For welcome bonuses though, you will have to choose points as your welcome gift and will have to forego breakfast if staying in a property where those benefits are now by choice, so members will obviously have to make some decisions for LT points for the next 5 months.

The one thing I still would not 'experiment' with is staying in SPG legacy properties - I'd still stay in Marriott legacy properties at least until I qualified for whatever LT status I'm going for the remainder of 2018.

I believe the answer hinges on what defines “floater certificates.” If, as posited above, they are certificates in your bucket of awards that are not attached to a reservation, then they will convert from being category based certificates (eg Cat 1-5) to a points based certificate (eg up to 25,000 points) as discussed in a number of previous threads. One thread that has a good deal of discussion on this topic is https://insiders.marriott.com /message/252453?commentID=252453#comment-252453 . I don’t see them giving us points, I see our certificates being converted into a different currency to accommodate the change in the redemption scheme that now introduces a variable redemption value based on peak/non-peak times of the year. What we know for sure is all will be revealed on August 1.

The easiest thing to do - find a reservation that you plan to make, and attach all of your certificates to a reservation! Try not to change that reservation AT ALL, even after 1 August. Then, you do not have any "floater certificates" and can also see what the value of that certificate will be post-August 1. You can then possibly take advantage of old points rates, and also if the new rates are better for that reservation, potentially cancel and take advantage of that (or reserve somewhere else if plans change or you find a better cert use at another property! Having two options can be better than one!

It really makes no sense to "chance it" to "see what happens" when you have something you can do now that will possibly benefit you now vs. ye 'ole roll the dice method. I'd try to make sure all certs are used up or "attached to reservations" by July 20th, leaving the system final merges and potential glitches that may come in the 10-day countdown after the MegaBonus ends alone!

Well I’ve looked at the FT thread and I reckon this ones a goer! The weaker part of the TP was always the 7-night cert, indeed what gives TPs their high value is the 1:1 transfer ratio (1:1.1 with UA). I reckon I’ll be giving this a run, it seems it’s a straightforward way to transfer miles to airlines at 1:1, as the floating 7-night cert will revert to new scheme points, a one off offer, and great value to boot!

Hotel + Air Package 3:

7 Nights + 120,000 Rapid Reward Points

brightlybob So if I understand these Marriott Vacation packages correctly. I can transfer 90,000 Star points over to Marriott (270,000 points), purchase this hotel and air package 3. I will earn 120,000 Southwest points and 7 day cat 1-5 certificate? If so, I’m happy with 120k airline miles for basically 90 SPG points. Then in August the 7 night package certificates will convert to extra points, now this is too generous

brightlybob - how are you drawing the conclusion, "the floating 7-night cert will revert to new scheme points (true), a one off offer,and great value to boot!"

which leads starguy to write "Then in August the 7 night package certificates will convert to extra points, now this is too generous" (and very UnMarriott-like, I might add)

Thanks

ps - one of the reasons I'm glad I can actually use a TP to book (before the August deadline) an early summer stay next year, is the airline (United 132k miles for 120k points) conversion, which, without knowing, I can relatively confidently feel that it probably won't get better than it is now.

Well, erc, the position is that airline miles are far more valuable (when redeemed for premium seats) than Marriott points, hence the opportunity to buy airline miles at par to Marriott points is a very good deal.

Marriott travel packages present just such an opportunity, but with a sting in the tail, a requirement to also buy a 7-day certificate. The problem is that not many members stay 7 consecutive nights at a hotel and it’s seldom good value redeem for 7 nights since that usually incorporates both high and low value days, eroding the value of 7 night certificates. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that if you want to cash in the certificate for points you receive a fraction of its purchase value.

So the floating certificate refund offer is very good since it rebates all the points tied up in the certificate to use on better value future redemptions.

You write, "so the floating certificate refund offer is very good since it rebates all the points tied up in the certificate to use on better value future redemptions".

You do not know (unless someone from Marriott told you - if so, please advise) what the rebate will be.

(you can't say 3,000 GBPs is a good price for a car without knowing what the car is)

I would love to trust the Lurker (who has stated with credibility) several times that he can only say what Marriott tells him (but then that brings in Marriott's benefit integrity, ask the SPGers about that) and think that 'equivalent' actually means same value as the customer would view it; that's why I wrote in the very first reply, it all comes down to what equivalent means - and like thriftyscrooge, normanp, and many others of us have wondered - if it's so straightforward why doesn't Marriott just tell us? Now the optimist in me says, "because if they did we'd all run out and secure as many Travel Packages as we could for the attractive conversion ratio" (which should have been clear to you from my post that I am fully aware of the value - I virtually spelled it out).

We shall see, I'm hoping it plays out the way you described - my comment was to say, but we just don't know (although I did hold out for the possibility that somehow, you the Tipple organizer extraordinaire had some truly Insider scoop).

The thought of "buy now/book later" is tempting for the miles... as you can see in the thread, communitymanagers don't have any helpful info to share either. it's a shame too.. they should be the ones posting information about the changes, not 3rd party info coming from FT.

I have a Cat5 FRC from the MR card sitting in my account right now. It expires 9/1. The question becomes should I use it now, or not.... not a lot of good choices around the DC area that are Cat 5, and if it gets me points that I can use towards a future (higher Category) redemption, I'll hold onto it instead of using it up now.

starguy - sorry for the late reply to your tag. I am in London qualifying tonight for my 75th night of the year, so hopefully that should guarantee LTPP till the end of next year and even more hopefully Your24 for the same period. Like you, I hadn’t heard the term ‘floater’. applied to certs before seeing this. As the cert which I opted for after achieving 50 nights is for a Cat 1 to 5 I will be very interested to learn what value will be credited if it remains unused on August 1st. According to the SPG redemption site a night at a Cat 5 property can be redeemed for 12000 to 16000 SPG Points. So, what will they decide to give us in NMPs (New Marriott Points). It would be nice if it was the 48000, but that somehow seems unlikely. Personally I would be OK with the 36000 points - anything less than that, however would seem to me to be gross breach of trust, since at present the Starwood terms and conditions are still saying that these certs are valid till the end of the year following the year in which they are earned. If it is known exactly what these floaters are worth then people should be told now so that they have sufficient time to make the strategic decision about what to do with them.

Nice plan ....I'm guessing you are a MVC owner since you have access to the elusive 5 night package that the rest of us don't. To me, THAT is the best use of MR points, but it's deliberately reserved for their timeshare owners...

I'm skeptical here, and would go out and say that it's a pipe dream to "get back" 420K points.

I'm going to get a base Cat 5 7-night package w/ 132k united miles next month as well., and will roll the dice to see what the 7 night certificate gets converted into. Hopefully, at worst, its 138K MR points, since the remaining 132k points are essentially turned into United miles at 1:1 ratio. Now, will the remaining 138K points be enough to get me 7 nights, or even 5 nights at the new cat 5 hotels... who knows?

to quote erc above, this is why we are all in limbo:

"because if they did we'd all run out and secure as many Travel Packages as we could for the attractive conversion ratio"

This is a quote on FT-from Starwood. I'd like something more official, but seems like they might be headed in the direction I described.

Floater certificates, including outstanding Marriott Travel Packages, will be cancelled andconverted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption"

The thing I'd flip out over is they just returned points to us as if WE cashed in the hotel certificate for points. That's a terrible exchange. It seems to me that they have to give us either points or some instrument to stay at the same type of hotel for same length as the original TP would have. To me, the points are the easiest thing for Marriott to do. Then I think we see new TP charts matching the new categories.

Of course...that quote is in the first post and started this thread-I did not mean to be redundant.. But it does indicate some refund of points that can be used for an equal stay.

Taking all of the thoughtful speculative chit chat above - expect, if, might, believe, reckon, what the meaning of is, is; I decided to attempt my small effort to Rage Against the Machine. Not being a MVC owner like my Bal'mer pal, and Costa Rican traveling guide above, I don't have the option of my preferred 5 night stay and earn airline miles at attractive conversion rates.

I secured a 7 night Travel Package, scooped up my 132,000 United miles for the 120k point differential and can certainly live with a 7 night, 8 day stay. I then went back in and placed a low risk bet (IMO) on a 5 night stay with points, without withdrawing the points (which btw was one of the few - Travel Packages, Flex Date search, and booking award stays w/o points to name some, Marriott toppers over the much hallowed, but soon to be retired SPG program).

If Marriott converts TPs into 'equivalent' (or better in fantasyland) point values, then I will joyfully cancel my 7 night TP reservation and go with the more preferred 5 night stay, earning UA miles on an even more excellent conversion rate. If Marriott (as I believe) does something funky and converts Certs into their definition of 'equivalent' (which could include forcing the conversion value to be used only in a 7 night stay) then I cancel my 5 night reservation and live with my 7 night reservation (there's certainly tougher hardships in life ).

It's my wussy way of betting on Marriott's generosity and now I'm all in, pulling for any of you 'Gamblers'.

I too am going for this - 132kUA miles and a 7-night Cat6 cert (impossible to convert to equivalent new program certificate) and am just awaiting a few points to clear from my last stay, then cal Marriott and “the game is on”.

I can do some damage with 132kUA miles and would be delighted to see 180k points return to my account!

I booked a 7 day package yesterday based on all the info, took the package #1 with 120k Alaska miles. Wish I would have done this for vacation to Israel, should have paid attention to everything I've heard over the past year about how good of a deal this was, instead I converted to United miles and booked hotel separately and while it was ok redemption it was not anywhere as good as the package route!

Coincidentally I received an email this morning telling me I have received a one night cert valued at 35k points, no idea why this came, checked my account and sure enough it is there.

IT seems that what was once considered ridicuolous (Marriott wont let that happen) seems to be gaining steam as a viable option. I'm just waiting on my CC spending points to post in a couple of days and will be getting a Cat 5 7-night 132K mile package. I can use those miles no matter what, and the hotel situation remains TBD.

Marriott's decision to not share information on this matter is pretty much forcing our hand on the TP redemptions.

Originally (way back in May) I was thinking Marriott would go the certificate way, but then as reported above, the Lurker (who stated several times in batting down SPGers anxieties that he could only say what Marriott told him to say)said

Floater certificates, including outstanding Marriott Travel Packages, will be cancelled andconverted to equivalent points, credited to the member’s account for future redemption"

which would put a summer beach stay converted to 'equivalent' points at risk, since it would undoubtedly be "Peak" Award schedule - possibly leading to a shortfall.

I like your strategy, erc. If I had a clear idea as to the exact nature of my future stays, I would definitely use the approach you have outlined. Since that is not the case, I am waiting hoping for some better clarity before committing my points to a hotel + air package. For now I will continue saving for the package that I really want. As August 1 looms closer, I may just have to close my eyes and roll the dice.

Read an interesting post on the FT thread about what the "refund" for the certs might be--full point value vs converted to the value of a member refunding it.

The gist was that Marriott will be processing TP's through July. What if a regular MR member-one that isn't all over the message boards etc processes a TP July 28 for example. Waits for the FF miles to post and goes to book the hotel stay a week later-only to find out the certificate is being refunded for a value of 2 nights of points. I just cannot see that happening. Marriott will have a huge mess if that's the plan.

In that thread, I said anything less than the "stay" point value was unacceptable to me...someone asked "what was I prepared to do. Here's my response.

Originally Posted by

And what do you plan to do? Sue Marriott to get what is acceptable to you?

Every such program has an escape clause that the program administrator can change the program rules at any time without advance notice. Plenty of companies have done exactly just that.

1) I can vote with my wallet. And I spend a lot with Marriott-and I won't be the only one.

2) IANAL, but an escape clause here would be more complicated for Marriott as I have an instrument promising a specific stay for a specific length of time at a specific category-that will be changing. They will have a tough sell negating those certs for less value than agreed to at the time of the transaction. Most escape clauses are about future transactions-not past. I agreed to give them a certain number of points in exchange for two things: FF miles and a stay at a hotel. They simply cannot retract part of that.

3) I bet there will be a class action suit if they don't honor the stays.

BTW, we just don't have all info yet. In some ways, we are working into a frenzy without cause yet.

ah, the consternation! It's about time we got some clarification. I'd ask Whitney, but something tells me communitymanagers don't know much more, or are under strict do-not-share orders from Marriot Corp.

I'm rolling the dice, based on how the United merger with continental devalued the program.... the program as it stands now will be something most of us will look back upon fondly and wistfully, muttering things like "I remember the good ol' days....." .

There's plenty of that on here already, just don't need more of it in a month.

Ya. I have absolutely no patience. I panicked and ordered up a certificate last night. If I gambled wrong, I gambled wrong. Win some. Lose some. All that nonsense. Guess we'll see what the future holds.

I wouldn't say it isn't much of a gamble, maybe a 1% gamble. I think cashing in now and taking advantage of lower point values is the way to go (known results) vs. rolling the dice and crossing your fingers (unknown results). Also, booking any reservations at high-end properties that will be over 60k at the 60k rate while possible before you find out that 351 days are 'peak' days!

Here's the latest scoop on anything resembling an answer - I enlarged his last statement - a throw away line or prophetic warning?

For your reading pleasure: Questions:If we purchase a travel package before August 1st, will we be able to upgrade or downgrade it after August 1st, as we've been able to so far?

What will be the point value that Marriott Cat 1-5 5-night certificates (from hotel+air package) are exchanged to after 1 August? Will this be announced before August 1st? Will those newly added points count towards LT Status ?

If I get a travel package now, it sounds like the certificate will be converted back to points if I had not used the certificates by August 1st. Is that correct? Can members buy a package pre August 1 and use it in 2019?

Could you further clarify this new update on the refund of the Marriott Travel Package Cert, as to how the refund points are calculated?

I have a 7-night category 1-5 Marriott certificate from the travel package. Are you saying I will receive 150,000 Marriott points for it, to use for anything I want?

Answer from the only human being bordering on sharing info:

We are currently reviewing how to handle existing travel package awards already in members' accounts and will have a definitive answer in the coming weeks. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to to maximize their usage.

starguy - well done on reaching 50 and good choice! brianandlin and I both went for the free night this year rather than the suite nights. Interesting that they are still saying it can be redeemed till end of 2019. Hoping that the free night cert will survive as an option rather than the Suite Nights - though not sure whether I will be so motivated to get to 50 nights now that I have LTP and the programme has changed so much.

Excellent info starguy - I was hoping we'd find out soon - I was about to book a stay that's 12000 SPG points with my cert but the hotel will change to 35000 new points so I was hanging on for this information - now I will wait and take the 5000 points profit - a small gain, but in these times I'll take anything that's going!

interesting.. so even within identical Category floater certificates, will there be different variations on how they convert over?

It's still unclear from the language in the chat above if they will turn into straight points, or an award cert. at the new value. in the latter case, would they extend the validity of the existing certificates when they convert??? As usual...lots of questions, and not enough answers.

I did the only logical thing I could think of - redeemed almost all my points for a Cat 8 7-night package yesterday and attached it to a reservation in 2019. Then, depending on what happens to the floating certificates, I'll choose to either keep the reservation or detach the certificate and "cash it in" if it makes sense.

As it stands now, I have a grand total of 217 Marriott points left in my account, with 2 Cat 1-5 floater certificates, and 2 7-night TP redemption reservations, one of which is at a Cat 9 property that is going up by 15K points/night, and another at a Cat 8 that goes up by 10k points/night.

Estimated point saving at this time (6*15) + (6*10) = 150k points! Let's see how this plays out!

I used my SPG points to buy a free week in March next year at the Sheraton Fuertaventura before the new rates come into play. This saves me 35000 new points on the same deal after August. I now am the owner of 43 Starpoints.

normanp No, actually needed a way to get rid of 100k+ starpoints before the program end, so this was the perfect way out LOL(bye Marriott/SPG)

I figure if I just transfer points the SPG way to an airline in 20k increments and earn the extra 5k miles that's only a 25% bonus, however I once found out about these Marriott travel package, where we can transfer 90,000 star point(270k MR) for 120,000 airline miles(that's a 33.33% bonus )

Now here is where it gets good!! I just wanted extra airline miles(just posted into my Delta/Skymiles)

I just got a free 7 night away stay with this travel package!!(house moneyLOL)

The 7 night away(Floater Certificates) may get converted back to points(extra startpoint for me ) or converts into a cat 1-4 or 1-5 SPG property starting in August(if so I'm giving this to my parents for their anniversary trip)

I'm rolling the dice on this one Either way I'm happy with 90,000 starpoints to 120,000 Skymiles.

starguy - OK, now I understand - looks like a good deal for you, hope it pays off! I've never converted hotel points into airline miles - here in Europe we can travel at really low cost to anywhere within about 4 hours and so airline miles are best saved for inter-continental travel and the numbers required for those flights are normally very high and require you to pay for the so-called "taxes and charges" with almost the same amount as you can get a flight. Airline miles are becoming virtually worthless here. Let's hope that hotel points, though constantly devalued, don't go the same way.

We have all been badly hit. I cashed in all my points and now have a grand total of 43. I will get a few more from my upcoming Italy trip but to be honest I don't care. No more points chasing, no more status chasing. The years of enjoyable travel on my own money to reach the ultimate Lifetime Platinum SPG level and now even that is being devalued. As they say around my new holiday home in Wales we have been "stwffio". ( stuffed)

normanp yes a good deal for me LOL. I can come y'all in the UK a few times with all these delta points

o0o0o0o0o0o...points! right, this travel + airline package thing is the best thing since Sliced Bread lmaoooooo and even better once Marriott cancels my 7 stay away for extra points

brightlybob Thanks for understanding my view of how this merger negatively affected me , however, on the flip side, I will get two free night award every year from Marriott with no spend required, so I'm happy with that positive change.

brianandlin yes we have all been badly hit. now I have 26,000 starpoint left to burn. No rush, since our points never expire, now that we are LifeTimer.

Ifind it strange that theStarwood Lurkerhasbeen the only hotel affiliated social media individual to give information about "floating certificates" and that no Marriott spokesman(for example theCommunity Managers) has stated more than that "no final decision has been made about the future status of the hotelportion of travel awards ... stay tuned". The Community Managers (or any other Marriott affiliated spokesman) refuse to comment or "hint" about what will happen after August 1, and do not repeat the comments made by the Starwood Lurker. Could there be a different status for Starwood"floating certificates" after August 1 thanfor Marriott "floating certificates"? - orcananyonesuggesta plausible reason for thisstrange situation?

My 1-night Cat 1-5 Marriott floater became a 25,000 point floater this morning but can now be used at a lot of interesting Starwood properties too. I can’t imagine many being able to reasonably complain about that outcome. Some will try, no doubt!

Alas for those holding Travel Package floaters the new table is not particularly generous, and there are certainly losers...

You’ve done quite nicely on that normanp with the old Cat4 cert being worth 10,000SPG, 30,000 new points, though I guess there was SPGs peak times to consider. I suspect Marriott decided to be quite flexible with these Certs because they're not that pricey and a lot of them are credit card linked so there’s contracts to think of. It’s some of the travel package Certs that have taken the hit here.

I am a MR guy and when I logged in to my account today, the 2 CAT1-5 certificates I had (1 from Anniversary of CC and One from MegaBonus), they still show as certificate but with up to 25k points redemption value and same expiration day. The certificates have not been converted to points as some have started before.

Yep same as mine...I had a MR cat 5 anniversary certificate for the Canadian Visa that was discontinued...I was hoping it would be valued at 35k like the new Amex CC ann.certificates but nope..the good news for me was I was able to use it at a cat.4 which should be high season but was still normal season this morning....so in essence the property was 30k cat.6 pre merger and now 25k normal season....so I snatched it up.. I would check if any of the properties you're interested in can be used for the certificate value?

PS...I see the date of your certificate is before next year high,low and normal seasons so you should be ok at most locations?

Also if you have any bookings make sure the new points needed are not lower because of the new cat. chart and if so you can rebook or call in to have the extra points used credited to your account.