Oh my God this video is THE video to end all videos. It is sooooo true. Life in Iraq is 10 folds better than what it was four years ago. Without the intervention of American forces Iraqi citizens would not have enjoyed the peace, stability and freedoms they enjoy today. Prior to the invasion life in Iraq was terrible but now with the help of American troops the Iraqi people can flourish at a rate they only dreamed of years ago.

**"Ladies and gentlemen this just in. Reality Check***

Life in Iraq is what we call Hell on Earth. The economy is failing. The unemployment rate is extremely high (except for American contractors) money is scares and income is low (except for American contractors).

Security is a joke. On average (guess) lets assume 50 Iraqis die each day. In a year that is about 18,250. Over a four year span that amounts to 73,000 give or take. So in fours years about 73,000 (estimate) Iraqis have died due to THIS war that was brought upon by American aggression once again. Oh it doesn't stop there. Currently this October is on track to being one of the deadlest months to date. It's not getting better it's getting WORSE. Whodda thunk it?

Wasn't the death of Abu Musab Al Zarqawi supposed to bring an end to all this death and destruction? How many times did we hear ("if you cut the head of the snake, the rest will die") or ("The noose is tightening") or my favorite ("The insurgency is on it's last leg"). Well guess what? All these cliche's might work in Hollywood but not in real life.

Maybe we need ponder something different. Maybe we have the wrong snake. Maybe the insurgency will fade when the invasion is dead. Chaddukes...my post in no way has anything to do with you or your post. I understand there are some good going on in Iraq and you were just posting a video you found.

However...I hope no one actually thinks life in Iraq as a whole is better now than under Saddam. I would have much rather lived in Iraq during his rule than what has become of it under the American invasion.

There's about 30 seconds worth of actual information in it's entire length and the rest is feel good fluff that lacks any substance.

Those statistics could be, and most likely are horribly flawed, not to mention irrelevant. Who gives a flying crap how many Iraqi's have cell phones?

Progress indeed.

"Guess [Ryan Kerrigan] really does have a good motor. And is relentless. And never quits on a play. And just keeps coming. And probably eats Wheaties and drinks Apple Pie smoothies and shaves with Valvoline." -Dan Steinberg DC Sports Bog

dnpmakkah wrote:Life in Iraq is what we call Hell on Earth. The economy is failing. The unemployment rate is extremely high (except for American contractors) money is scares and income is low (except for American contractors).

Maybe we need ponder something different. Maybe we have the wrong snake. Maybe the insurgency will fade when the invasion is dead. Chaddukes...my post in no way has anything to do with you or your post. I understand there are some good going on in Iraq and you were just posting a video you found.

However...I hope no one actually thinks life in Iraq as a whole is better now than under Saddam. I would have much rather lived in Iraq during his rule than what has become of it under the American invasion.

I also think that things will get better once our presence in the region is lessened. I don't however think that the Iraqi's are ready for us to leave.

I really can't understand how you would think that the Iraqi people would be better off with Saddam in control. I thought that Freedom was something to be valued above security. What good is safety if you are tied to a post and whipped just because it amuses the dictators son. I thought that fighting to secure your countries borders would be better than being tortured because the Iraqi national soccer team lost a match.

I also don't agree with your assertion that the Iraqi economy is worse. Under Saddam thousands upon thousands starved to death! How can high unemployment.....during a war....compare? Do you disagree that there are 33,000 new businesses? That there are five million cell phone users?

And I will tell you why that cell phone statistic is important....pay attention Skinsfan55. Because it means that they have enough money to buy something that is a continuous service....and isn't a neccessity! Thats a luxury! And it means that the economy is dramatically improved from six years ago when people were starving in the streets.

dnpmakkah wrote:Life in Iraq is what we call Hell on Earth. The economy is failing. The unemployment rate is extremely high (except for American contractors) money is scares and income is low (except for American contractors).

Maybe we need ponder something different. Maybe we have the wrong snake. Maybe the insurgency will fade when the invasion is dead. Chaddukes...my post in no way has anything to do with you or your post. I understand there are some good going on in Iraq and you were just posting a video you found.

However...I hope no one actually thinks life in Iraq as a whole is better now than under Saddam. I would have much rather lived in Iraq during his rule than what has become of it under the American invasion.

I also think that things will get better once our presence in the region is lessened. I don't however think that the Iraqi's are ready for us to leave.

I really can't understand how you would think that the Iraqi people would be better off with Saddam in control. I thought that Freedom was something to be valued above security. What good is safety if you are tied to a post and whipped just because it amuses the dictators son. I thought that fighting to secure your countries borders would be better than being tortured because the Iraqi national soccer team lost a match.

I also don't agree with your assertion that the Iraqi economy is worse. Under Saddam thousands upon thousands starved to death! How can high unemployment.....during a war....compare? Do you disagree that there are 33,000 new businesses? That there are five million cell phone users?

And I will tell you why that cell phone statistic is important....pay attention Skinsfan55. Because it means that they have enough money to buy something that is a continuous service....and isn't a neccessity! Thats a luxury! And it means that the economy is dramatically improved from six years ago when people were starving in the streets.

Because of the lack of adequate phone service, Iraqis have to use cell phones. There's nothing positive about it. They struggle to pay their bills and only make the most necessary calls. Over a million and a half Iraqis have died of war conditions in Iraq since the first gulf war. The Johns Hopkins study, which you have chosen to ignore, shows that over 600,000 Iraqis have died as a result of actions taking by this Bush administration.
This feel good crap is just PR spin.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Because of the lack of adequate phone service, Iraqis have to use cell phones. There's nothing positive about it. They struggle to pay their bills and only make the most necessary calls. Over a million and a half Iraqis have died of war conditions in Iraq since the first gulf war. The Johns Hopkins study, which you have chosen to ignore, shows that over 600,000 Iraqis have died as a result of actions taking by this Bush administration.This feel good crap is just PR spin.

Now you can't have your cake and eat it too. The figure that 1.5 million died in Postwar Iraq, which I believe, doesn't jive with the John Hopkins study which would tell you that Iraq had a deathrate much lower than the U.S. prior to the war. It also doesn't jive with your assertion that only 250K civilians died during Saddam's reign.....or do you blame those 1.5 million deaths on Clinton?

You assertion that Iraqi have to use cell phones doesn't make sense to me either. Land line POTS phones are much easier to install and maintain than cell phone towers and the complicated software systems that run cell phone service. Nor does it take into account the amount of construction that is necessary to bring that technology toa country that never had it. If the economy is as poor as you indicate then the Iraqi's wouldn't be able to finance such a venture. You're stretching here......unless again you have some information to dispute these figures.

Listen, one of my best friends whom I have known all of my life since I was 6 years old is a former Marine and now works for the State Dept. is stationed in Iraq and lives int he Green Zone. He fought in the first Gulf war, and has been in Iraq for Gulf war Pt II for almost 3 years now.

We talk about every two weeks about various issues both here in the US and what is actually going on over there in Iraq. Things have deteriorated over there dramatically, the infrastructure is nowhere near operating at the capacity it was before we invaded. The cell phone thing........they use cell phones b/c the hard lines are gone and the power to run the comm centers outside the Green zone is so lacking and unpredicatable anything resembling a "steady dial tone" on a hard line is just a dream to the average Iraqi citizen.

What we have to understand, and what the administration does not understand, is that it is next to impossible to change a culture. We cannot force people to democracy, they have no concept of it. Hammurabi's code is still, and will continue to be, the rule of law in that culture. Why do you think their is so much violence? The fact that we are there is a part of it, but you would not believe how these people think and live. I'm not saying it is wrong, but it is TOTALLY different than how we "free Americans" percieve rule, law, and reality. You have families that are giving paybacks to other families b/c of something that happened 400-500 years ago. That is no joke or exageration. There is hatred here that runs back hundreds of years that is not forgotten. Deep ideological rifts persist and an 'eye for an eye" is the only law that is respected. There is no law there now whatsoever, it is a free for all on the streets and revenge killings will persist. The reason the country was stable under Saddam with so many different factions is that he ruled with an iron fist, that is the only way to have stability in that region.

One example, my friend is in charge of Iraqi contractors and was having problems with an employee. The Iraqi was not repecting him and creating turmoil among the other employees. My friend went to his Iraqi liason and aked what he should do. The Liason said that in order to for him to resolve the situation he should beat the Iraqi employee in public and in front of his peers, that is the only way that they would respect him.

Are you begininng to understand?

People think that what you get form the US media is all doom and gloom, believe me, what you see and hear here is still fluffed and the reality is so much worse than you can possibly imagine. The country is not spiraling towards civil war, it is in civil war and will continue to get worse. We created this situation by opening Pandora's box when we invaded and dissolved the Army and police force that was present. There is no turning back now, the only thing to do is prevent more US deaths in the escalating sectarian violence.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Because of the lack of adequate phone service, Iraqis have to use cell phones. There's nothing positive about it. They struggle to pay their bills and only make the most necessary calls. Over a million and a half Iraqis have died of war conditions in Iraq since the first gulf war. The Johns Hopkins study, which you have chosen to ignore, shows that over 600,000 Iraqis have died as a result of actions taking by this Bush administration.This feel good crap is just PR spin.

Now you can't have your cake and eat it too. The figure that 1.5 million died in Postwar Iraq, which I believe, doesn't jive with the John Hopkins study which would tell you that Iraq had a deathrate much lower than the U.S. prior to the war. It also doesn't jive with your assertion that only 250K civilians died during Saddam's reign.....or do you blame those 1.5 million deaths on Clinton?

You assertion that Iraqi have to use cell phones doesn't make sense to me either. Land line POTS phones are much easier to install and maintain than cell phone towers and the complicated software systems that run cell phone service. Nor does it take into account the amount of construction that is necessary to bring that technology toa country that never had it. If the economy is as poor as you indicate then the Iraqi's wouldn't be able to finance such a venture. You're stretching here......unless again you have some information to dispute these figures.

I do blame many of the deaths on the Clinton administration. I'm counting the deaths during the Clinton years (caused by embargoes), as well as deaths during GW's reign. The dems are also guilty of Iraqi deaths.

1. The American people will open their eyes and realize the hell that has been unleashed in the Middle East and demand the U.S. to leave and get out of Iraq. Ultimatly this move will make America look like cowards and will be perceived as a sign that America lost in defeat. It will streghten the emotions of Arabs as having outlasted the American invasion and the rest of the world will perceive the invasion as false and a complete failure. America will backpeddle home with its tail between its legs and will forever go down in the history books as doing so.

2. The American government will NOT listen to its people and continue to stay the course in Iraq. They will spread more "happy" lies in hopes of brainwashing its own public and those of other nations that the war is going according to plan. However, while this propaganda is going on the situation in Iraq will worsen, hatred for the West will continue, the resistance will grow stronger, smarter and more efficent. The U.S. death toll will continue to grow and the future for America will be worse off because of it.

This is a losing war. There is no third situation of a Happy Hollywood Ending. You have to pick your poison. Do you want to get out now and admit defeat only to look like a coward or will your pride get in the way and slowly but surely the number of U.S. deaths will continue to rise and in the end Iraq will be Iraq. It will be in the vision of itself and not what America invisioned it to be.

dnpmakkah wrote:2. The American government will NOT listen to its people and continue to stay the course in Iraq. They will spread more "happy" lies in hopes of brainwashing its own public and those of other nations that the war is going according to plan.

So, Again.....Do you have any evidence to demonstrate that whats presented is wrong?

chaddukes wrote:So, Again.....Do you have any evidence to demonstrate that whats presented is wrong?

100,000 plus(being generous)dead Iraqi bodies and 3,000 dead U.S. soldiers. Proof? Living in Virginia I can't give you much. But if you like we can plan a trip to Iraq....I can take you on a tour of the country and if we live past an hour maybe I can show you some dead bodies and beheaded corpses. You opinion is your opinion. I am not hear to persuade you. You feel the way you do because its in your heart. And in my heart I know that life in Iraq SUCKS. It is worse due to the invasion/occupation and killing that occurs daily due to the America military.

chaddukes wrote:So, Again.....Do you have any evidence to demonstrate that whats presented is wrong?

100,000 plus(being generous)dead Iraqi bodies and 3,000 dead U.S. soldiers. Proof? Living in Virginia I can't give you much. But if you like we can plan a trip to Iraq....I can take you on a tour of the country and if we live past an hour maybe I can show you some dead bodies and beheaded corpses. You opinion is your opinion. I am not hear to persuade you. You feel the way you do because its in your heart. And in my heart I know that life in Iraq SUCKS. It is worse due to the invasion/occupation and killing that occurs daily due to the America military.