I can understand a group wanting to control their PR. but the funny thing is, the tighter you grasp it, the harder it is to hold. Especially when you’re doing questionable (and sometimes terrible) things along the way.

As I was reading “the most reasonable way to satisfy or resolve the issue”, I thought of how all such issues are resolved: “We’re right; you’re wrong; shut up and be a good little student or we will expel you”

Great observation! That was a very subtle way for BJU to plant an idea in the readers head to control behavior. In a Smithsonian article I read awhile back written by Teller from the magic show Penn and Teller, he talks about a common trick of magic and deception.

Here’s the direct quote, “. If you are given a choice, you believe you have acted freely. This is one of the darkest of all psychological secrets.”

BJU has given you the choice to express your grievances through our process in a loving way. See your free to express all concerns.

Interesting that SC is a one-party state for recording permission. So it’s legal in SC, but you could get expelled from college for doing it – that’s the bottom line here according to their rules? Is that how it’s going to play out? Technically, if someone made a recording, it could be used later in a court of law in SC – for whatever reason might apply – but the student still could lose their student status at BJ? This gets to the heart of the transparency issue, doesn’t it. Those who protect their opaqueness have something to hide. I feel protection should be given to a student’s right to privacy, for instance, more than to hiding what the administration is doing. They really don’t get it, do they? I keep thinking about the Biblical statement that “men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil” . . .

I was responsible for the rules about “Sharps” which have been in the handbook for several years now. I threw my diabetic lancet in the trash accidentally and a custodial girl poked herself on it. She demande that I go to Barge and get tested for AIDs.

FunDies, I second the point. BJU urges you to do things their way, even though historically they have squelched dissent and insisted that “loyalty” and “not griping” trump conscience and personal integrity.

Remember, the radical, anti-Biblical independence of Fundamentalism makes Christ’s process in Matthew 18 impossible. Nobody can take the errors and sins they find at BJU further than BJU. Fundy pastors simply refuse to hear of any grievance and certainly refuse to act, all under their rebellious mandate of being “independent,” which is just doublespeak for “indifferent.” Neither the Joneses nor any of the Administration are actually governed by elders. They run themselves.

So if I have a problem at a college I should contact the media rather than pursue the proper channels and discuss it with the administration? (Not talking about illegal acts obviously)
Is that how we should act at our job as well?
At a gym?
At anywhere else?

Does your gym have as part of its membership clause “PLEASE DO NOT BADMOUTH US TO THE MEDIA!”?? Does your barber or your grocer or your doctor?

No. Because instead of threatening you they’re going to do their best to make you happy as a customer to keep that from happening.

I just find it hilarious that the BJU administration accepts as a foregone conclusion that their students will be unhappy enough to need to appeal to the press when they can’t get satisfaction with the “process.”

Why is contacting the media wrong? If I’m upset about how a gym handles themselves, I have every right to freely tell anyone that will listen. If I’m lying, the consequences will be on my head, but it sounds like a guilty conscience to proactively tell people that going to the media is against “truth and love.” *cue media conspiracy…

Don’t confuse the admins statement here: they aren’t simply reminding students to go to the dean to discuss the problem first, before taking more drastic public measures. They are telling them that they are NOT ALLOWED to seek any outside help to resolve problems, and that they will be punished if they try (they’ve certainly proven that). Which means, if the administration doesn’t want to address the student’s problem, it will not be addressed at all.

“Sometimes the operation of the machine becomes so odious & repugnant that you have to put your bodies on the wheels, and levers and gears and say that if the machine isn’t going to work for everyone, it’s not going to work at all…”

If you have to ban objection, there’s a lot of objectionable things happening.

The reason I really hate clauses like this at fundamentalist schools is that they are almost always, without exception, hypocritical about it.

When you have a problem with them, they want you to come to them only and not say anything negative to anyone on the outside (even your family), and they don’t want you to believe anything negative that anyone else might say to you. They want you to come to them in an attitude of great humility and trust. And, of course, they want you to believe completely whatever they say. Basically, the school is always innocent of any wrong doing, not matter what anyone says. So, why should you need to go to the press?

Totally different when that same school has a problem with a student. In that case, they really will believe anything negative they hear about the student, often without any kind of investigation to see if it is true. They go into the process with an attitude of moral superiority and mistrust of the student. And, of course, they often call the student a liar when they try to defend themselves (again, often with no actual investigation). Unless the student happens to be one of the favored few, they are guilty unless they allow you to be innocent.

And it isn’t just BJU, either. These places need to figure out that “treating people the way you want to be treated” is much more effective then writing more rules to silence their students.

This is so wrong. I’ve been on jobs like this where everything was one sided. But in a college where you’re paying them for an education and they feel they can treat you this way is disgusting. They must lose a lot of students this way unless the student (and parents) are brainwashed to believe this is the way things ought to be. I feel if I had gone to one of these schools I’d have no self esteem left by now… 😥

This was exactly my experience at BJU. Several times during my four years there I was accused of various crimes. I was never allowed to face my accusers, they attempted to trick me into a “confession” (actually very much like the Communist trick of telling a prisoner “we already know everything so tell us” when they actually know nothing), and I was treated as guilty from the moment they got their first third-hand accusation. Everyone else is to always assume that they are doing the right thing, or trying to do the right thing. But they assumed their own students were guilty without even a cursory investigation.

One of their dormitory supervisors, Priscilla Olivero, once told me, “We always have to assume that students are trying to break the rules.” This was after telling me to “lighten up” because I was visibly angry at having an entire evening wasted in her apartment while she tried repeated duplicitous tactics to trick me into confessing that I hit my roommate in anger. When she finally threatened to bring my roommate in I joyfully consented; to her visible confusion. I couldn’t believe the gall, the wickedness, of accepting an accusation against a fellow believer without even bothering to check with the supposed victim of my violence. Not only had she accepted a third-hand story without checking on it, and treated me as a criminal, she actually tempted me to several hours of very hard and sinful thoughts against my innocent roommate. Until that moment, I couldn’t imagine the dormitory supervisor would make such an accusation unless my roommate herself had claimed I hit her. It never occurred to me that Priscilla would make such a fuss, waste so much time, and never even bother to ask my roommate if I’d hit her. When she found out she was completely wrong (as she did the second my roommate entered the apartment) there was no apology or even the decency to be embarrassed. There was just the pathetic, “Well, I can’t help it because I’m supposed to treat you all like criminals” defense.

Anyone who complains about this sinful behavior is treated as if they just don’t like the rules. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any reasonable person accepts there must be rules. Every organization of worth has to have rules and guidelines. A big one like a university has to have stricter ones than a private family can have, just because of the sheer number of students for whom they are responsible. We can even understand that they would need to err on the side of caution in some areas. But the legitimate need to have rules is no excuse for blatantly unbiblical behavior. Hypocrisy, refusing to allow fellow believers the benefit of the doubt, using deceit in pursuit of rule breakers, elevating man-made rules to be considered equal with God’s commands and teaching young Christians to judge their own and others’ spirituality based on utterly unbiblical guidelines is sheer, unmitigated sin. It needs to be called what it is by us and others: sin that offends God. BJU, your own prescriptions need to be followed. You need to repent of this sinful behavior, renounce it and substitute righteous behavior in its place.

I am quite convinced, based on personal interaction with the type of people you describe (and even that person in particular), that they are the most miserable and self-deceived people you will ever meet.

The first rule of any regime is to control the media and public opinion as much as possible. This is really old hat, and has been well discussed and documented by sociologists. That BJU (and other schools) would mimic fascism in its behavior would be funny if it weren’t such a slander to the name of Christ. At least they don’t have “Christian” in their college name.

It’s a little too easy for them to narrowly define “worldly” as a pair of jeans or a Third Day CD. Selfishness, impatience, envy, arrogance — THESE are what to me the Bible would define as worldly and are characteristics which God desires to replace with the fruit of the Spirit in our lives.

Well, as far as I am concerned, this was only a matter of time. At least we know who caused this rule. 😀
Back at HAC we used to have a good time every semester reading the constantly growing handbook and figuring out who caused the new rules. I kept a running total and 6 of the new rules at HAC were because of my friends. It was a goal of some of the freshman to “have a rule in the rule book” before graduation. It doesn’t really surprise me to see BJU following the same path.
SFL: controlling their followers with rules upon rules that no one could possibly keep.

We did this too, with the dress code at my fundy high school. They had to release a new thick booklet every year because we always found loopholes. I didn’t get any rules personally (that came later, in college), and I was super jealous of the kids who did.

And on the other side of the coin is, if THEY have a problem with YOU they do not hesitate to “go to the presses” so to speak and create sermons and badmouth you all over the place in ways that cause damage to your reputation and which give you absolutely no way to refute or rebut. No, STUDENTS should not spread out the dirty laundry, but the MOg can. Anytime at all. It is perfectly justified.

I would agree that the right thing to do when a problem occurs is to confront the college directly. Discuss it with college officials and at least try to get something resolved. I think this applies to most situations. Go to the source of the problem before gossiping to everyone else about it first. But, I would also retain my first amendment rights to then go on any form of media I feel like to air my unsatisfied grievance.

Definitely. It is better to try going through the officially “approved” rout with the problem first (just a general statement, there could easily be situations where going to the admins first could make the problem worst). Using the media to bring public attention to the problem should only be used if they absolutely refuse to address it.

Well said. I agree; by all means, try to work out the disagreement in a responsible manner. If you don’t agree with the rules, you can try to change them. If you choose to disobey them, be prepared to face the consequences.

Assuming that the college officials are honest brokers. But BJU acts EXACTLY as described by Mandy up above:

“When you have a problem with them, they want you to come to them only and not say anything negative to anyone on the outside (even your family), and they don’t want you to believe anything negative that anyone else might say to you. They want you to come to them in an attitude of great humility and trust. And, of course, they want you to believe completely whatever they say. Basically, the school is always innocent of any wrong doing, not matter what anyone says. So, why should you need to go to the press?

“Totally different when that same school has a problem with a student. In that case, they really will believe anything negative they hear about the student, often without any kind of investigation to see if it is true. They go into the process with an attitude of moral superiority and mistrust of the student. And, of course, they often call the student a liar when they try to defend themselves (again, often with no actual investigation). Unless the student happens to be one of the favored few, they are guilty unless they allow you to be innocent.”

“Students should keep in mind, it is never acceptable to disparage BJU through the media. Any attempt to do so will not be tolerated and is grounds for dismissal of the student.” ~ Bob Jones University 2012-2013 Student Handbook, last paragraph under ‘General Grievances and Complaints, Page 51 http://www.bju.edu/student-life/student-handbook.pdf

I remember being in trouble at BJU back in the early ’80’s. They thought I wasn’t very “spiritual.” 😯
I had been called to Miss Barker’s office. For those who don’t know Miss Barker was the Dean of Women back then.
My dorm supervisor Miss Hyma was present in Miss Barkers office. Before they started Miss Barker nodded to Miss Hyma. Miss Hyma reached under the the end of couch cushion she was sitting on(portion not taken up by her obese butt) and turned on a tape recorder.

I actually think NO, depending on the participants. If the person doing the taping has no power, the tape can be his/her only way to be believed by others. Several months ago, a teenage girl secretly taped her father, a judge, beating her in a rage. If that weren’t on tape, who would have believed that he would be cursing and walloping his nearly-grown daughter?

Abusers are often manipulative and clever. Their victims are often powerless — UNLESS they have proof. A tape can do that.

I think that is reasonable. “Do as I say, not as I do.” I think postmodernism has some gaping philosophical holes in it, but its paradigm of power is useful in some cases, like analyzing BJU’s myopic power lust.

Anyone put in that kind of position should, I believe, walk to the door and tell them that they will not participate in a meeting in which they are being taped without consent, or say they will be right back with their own tape recorder so that they will have a copy as well. But I realize that both are much easier said then done within the bubble of fundy U.

When I went to BJU, I came in from a radically-right-wing sect, much more conservative than BJU. BJU was a “liberal” school to my parents (and subsequently laid the path to our estrangement).

BJU *did* help crack the shell of invincibility my ultra-fundamentalism. I learned how to think past the unbending errors I had grown up with — and as a result also was able to grow past the rigidity of BJU’s rule-bound structure. Fortunately I married before my Junior year, and being an older student to begin with I did not have to be in the dormitories. Living off-campus had its perks!

I did notice that BJU did not like criticism. Dr. Bob Jr. would pray imprecatory prayers every now and again. I never really liked those. It seemed wrong-spirited. I heard in hushed tones about people who had gotten “shipped” for mysterious reasons. I didn’t agree with the interracial dating ban. And I thought the fact that boys and girls couldn’t even hold hands was a bit much. The dating parlor setup was always a source of amusement to me.

And I blithely ignored much of that. If I disagreed with something, I didn’t make an issue of it (though I would talk about it with my wife). Eventually I graduated.

By the time I graduated there was quite a list I had of things I did not agree with, but my general attitude was that the people in charge believed they were doing the right thing and were trying to be reasonable.

Of course, I was there, uhhh, a long time ago (25 years does go by fast, though).

Since I left, I have moved a long way away from fundamentalism, and am grateful I did not lose faith in the process. I have learned a lot about fundamentalist attitudes — some of which I held, too! — that I cannot accept.

Remember that in its most basic form, fundamentalism is about “submission to God,” and since they see themselves as relying on the “Word of God” they believe that what they believe is what God approves, therefore they are an Authority “anointed.” And yes, if you see the connection between the way they see themselves and the way Islamic mullahs and imams see themselves, you are right on track.

At some level, the “authorities” at BJU really believe they will do the right thing since they see themselves as submitting to God. On a very practical level, they are afraid to admit to making mistakes. Admitting to making a mistake would be seen as subversive to their authority. That would be bad, they think, because the whole structure of authority would break down.

Which is where they make a mistake. They see authority as a structure. They make the mistakes so many pastors make, seeing the ministry as an organization instead of seeing the body of Christ as an organism. They don’t recognize the pride they are infected with, and they see themselves as “spiritual,” even when the opposite is true.

So they have locked themselves in. Even if they wanted a way out, they can’t see any way to do it.

So yes, their policy is self-serving. Were they really willing to put themselves in God’s hands, they would make a note that if the decisions they made in response to a grievance pursued through their channels was not acceptable, then the student could pursue other channels, including bringing it to the media. It would put them under scrutiny — but that is where we as the people of God belong.

I am afraid that I am seeing the University’s deterioration. I am sorry to see it.

They make the mistakes so many pastors make, seeing the ministry as an organization instead of seeing the body of Christ as an organism.

Excellent point. That is why so many people from Fundy backgrounds become so jaded and cynical. The last time I preached at our church [Fundy-lite type], my 18 year old son had a couple of people tell him they liked that when I preach, I come as “one of them”. I try to present The Word from the position of a sinner trying to help sinners. Not as the finished product with all the answers.

I have known too many pastors with the same problem BJU has–infallibility. For all their talk about how we are all sinners, they insist that they are always the only correct ones. But it was there, under the teaching of some really honest, Godly people, that I began to see the errors of many of the things I had been taught. It was while at BJU and a very good, non-BJ church, that I realized the folly of being KJVO. It was while I was a student there that my wife and I realized the silliness of the “skirts are more modest than pants” teaching. Among other things.

While BJU seems to some to be relaxing and growing, I agree that sadly we may be seeing their deterioration and demise. I believe that it is a very bad thing. They, like most preachers in Fundystan, could use some real scrutiny, as well as a good dose of true, Godly humility. A heart change, not a whitewash.

This is a good point. While I was there, I did know a few students from radical fundy churches; churches that warned students against BJU because it was so “liberal.” For some, BJU was too much for them to bear. They went home, and one can only hope that their few months in minimum security facility will eventually help them break free from the prison camps they call home. But I did see several for whom BJU was their first step in breaking free from the chains.

A few positive outcomes doesn’t excuse sin. But putting clear sin aside (if they ever could) is there a place for a “half-way house” of sorts–a place where the prisoners may get a few sips of freedom and come to love the taste? I don’t know the answer to my own question.

to the individual) that is conditioned on the individual’s attendance at a school.

Another exception permits a school to disclose personally identifiable information from education records without consent when the disclosure is to the parents of a “dependent student” as that term is defined in Section 152 of the Internal Revenue Code. Generally, if either parent has claimed the student as a dependent on the parent’s most recent year’s income tax statement, the school may non-consensually disclose the eligible student’s education records to both parents under this exception.

Postsecondary institutions may also disclose personally identifiable information from education records, without consent, to appropriate parties, including parents of an eligible student, in connection with a health or safety emergency. Under this provision, colleges and universities may notify parents when there is a health or safety emergency involving their son or daughter, even if the parents do not claim the student as a dependent.

FERPA also permits a school to disclose personally identifiable information from education records without consent when the disclosure is to the parents of a student at a postsecondary institution regarding the student’s violation of any Federal, State, or local law, or of any rule or policy of the institution, governing the use or possession of alcohol or a controlled substance. The school may non-consensually disclose information under this exception if the school determines that the student has committed a disciplinary violation with respect to that use or possession and the student is under 21 years of age at the time of the disclosure to the parent.

Just sound like more cult control tactics to me. Us folks on the outside just need to face that its a CULT with a capital “T” and just get out of it and try to take as many along to freedom as will come with us. After reading all those new BJU rules changes I just sharted my freshly laundered fundywear and got ’em all in a was now. Would somebody please pass the jelly donuts? 🙄

We seem to be about to witness the answer to so many prayers: the slow constricting death of this infamous institution. Obviously it will still take many years but at least things are moving in the right direction and I hope we will have the privilege of helping them along. I was a student there 9 years, preacher boy, society president, graduate assistant – buried deep in their bubble.
So very glad God wrenched the scales off my mind and heart and showed me the beauty of His grace. The students there need to see this and Chris is definitely a hero and an inspiration for standing up to their nasty, pseudo-Christian system. As they double-down on their rules hopefully they will create more issues for potential students to trip over thereby decreasing student enrollment and tightening the noose on their own neck. It wouldn’t hurt to broadcast these rule changes (and the rationale behind them)as loudly as possible…

they are definitely going down. Enrollment continues to drop, they are outsourcing the snack shop, Cuppa Jones, and the Dining Common to outside companies, which means that employees who have given their entire lives to BJU will lose their jobs in a month or so; they are outsourcing the IT dpeartment, and the list goes on. I heard that Soundforth was sold and that the Press will probably be sold soon as well. But they are dumping lots of money into the new sports stadium so they can do intermural sports, which will no doubt be an embarrassment.
I heard that Marshall basically runs everything now; he tells Dr Bob III what to do and he’s responsible for all the changes.
I was loyal to BJU, even when, as an undergrad student and then a grad student, I realized their faults. I still wanted to stay on board, finish my master’s degree, maybe teach there or work on staff, and be a positive influence there. It was my life. But when they kicked me out of grad school (for making out with my now-husband over break, in a different state, during a time between undergrad and grad school when I wasn’t enrolled as a student), they treated me in such a dehumanizing way, and they thwarted all my efforts to come back–I went through counseling, got letters of recommendation from people, jumped through all the hoops, and they still said no. My husband had worked at BJU (for peanuts) for 12 years, and he loved the school.He apologized to the DOM for his “sin,” he was sincerely broken-hearted over it. Yet they fired him over the incident the day they found out, without blinking.
This is what BJU deserves for taking people, like me and my husband and those employees who are losing their jobs, and others like us–people who truly loved BJU despite its faults–and throws them out like so much trash. They actively make enemies of their friends. My husband and I just didn’t live up to the standard. Their standard is perfection, and the only way to measure up to that is to fake it. Sorry for the rant, but I feel strongly about this.

Wow!
(I am at a loss of words right now.) Wow.
I knew that stuff like this went on but the lack of compassion, the inhumanity, the arrogance is… Wow.
The Hypocrisy! They can treat Christians however they please but then act like they have the moral highground if anyone questions them? or disagrees with them? WOW!
I am truly sorry for what you have been put through excom. Wow

With all due respect, the IT department has not been outsourced completely. Yes, the call center is now outsourced to Unitiv (http://www.unitiv.com/solutions/intelligent-help-desk/) “Intelligent Help Desk.” The food stuff is getting outsourced, to the mixed reception of students. Everybody’s happy for the food taste increase, but not everybody’s happy student jobs are getting screwed and many, many lifers’… lives, too.
Not sure about Soundforth and Press. The sports stuff sounds like a lame attempt to attract new students, but seeing as how anyone concerned about sports in a serious manner wouldn’t ever consider Blob Jones for many, many years until they’ve proved themselves (unlikely), that’ll flop too.
I remember hearing an official recruitment goal: 950 new students. Based on some half-baked guessing, I’d say that their numbers are always higher than expectations to enable the admissions workers to actually shoot for something. So I’m guessing 700 new students are coming this fall?