So, yesterday I took a little trip with a couple other disc'ers down to Smithville, MO to play the Paradise Pointe Courses(Beaver, Blackthorn and Woodhenge). I was greatly disappointed in these courses after hearing how fun they are. Looking at these two pictures, would you say that these are Fairways? When I go to a course that has crap like this, it just takes the fun out of playing. There were a few more holes like this, but didn't take a picture of them.

Can you spot the basket in this one? Only real route to the basket was a big sky high spike hyzer for the most part.

And this was taken from the layup teeshot that pretty much our entire group threw. Too much of a luck factor in my opinion.

I would like to see some pic's and comments from others in terms of what they would consider good/bad course design.

Yeah, I've seen pictures from the NC courses and don't think that I would like playing them all that much Yeah, midwest courses are a different breed for sure when compared to NC courses. I am not a fan of the 6 foot wide fairway.

I'm not sure that there are 6 foot gaps in there and i'm sure the pros would say that those are unfair holes and the result is based on luck because it is not the skill of the thrower that decides the score if you play deuce or die like the top players do. I have almost as stringent self demands and even for lesser demands i deem those holes to be unfair. I can't see how it would be within the limits of human performance to be able to hit so tight gaps out that far with the power requirement of the current discs consistently to be able to park those holes or getting to pro gimme putting range. Not a fan. To me a fairway needs to have a gap that top players can hit most of the time yet remaining in some way to be challenging or at least being a filler hole that still can separate the elite from the recs.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

those look alot like the north west courses as well. I see three line for the upshot. I like courses like that. I don't have a big gun so tech courses give me a chance to kick the bombers asses once in a while. I am guessing this is one of the more extreme holes though. I course design i think a hole should have one obvious line and then at least one risky line that is either tight or dangerous in some way but will reward a great shot.

The particular courses that those were taken from is an example of either too much or too little. There are about 3-4 holes that are similar to those pictures and then it is all about slinging it in the complete wide open with maybe a single tree to worry about. It is really a shame as there could be more interesting holes out there. They just doesn't use what trees are there very well. I agree that a hole should have a defined route with a risk/reward type route.