(16-01-2013 01:04 AM)Nappa Wrote: And don't even get me started about the old man who had 6 children on his lawn, that guy is an obvious liar, we have contradicting stories that he himself says on camera. Not to mention, the fact that he didn't call the police after the children told him that their teacher had been shot. You would think a responsible member of society would contact some form of law enforcement so that they could contact the parents so they or the parents could take custody of them.

Plus he says he was on his way to work? Most people his age that I know of are retired. Except my grandmother, she was a teacher for quite some time. I wonder if you people even know how to observe another human being and their emotional responses, I anticipate your hate when I say something that you don't agree with. Why? Because that's natural for a human to do, they'll hate whatever they don't agree with. Especially when it's controversial like conspiracy theories, or politics, or some minor historical events. (be advised I consider most of human history to be of the minor part)

Here's how I observe people I look into their eyes. The old man closes his eyes at least half the time he's talking, the only time I close my eyes when I'm talking is when I'm trying to imagine things. Just like when momsurroundedbyboys said that the guy was 'gaining composure' yeah he was gaining composure alright, he was imagining being there as if it actually happened to 'feel' to draw his emotions from the depths of his conscious being. I could even do it myself if I wanted to, but I don't I believe emotions are an evil thing. And while I was looking into the eyes of the mother, I don't see one hint of sorrow, not once! My mother's eyes were full sorrow and sadness and yes, that's even when she was on the happy pills.

Now Momsurroundedbyboys I have but to ask, DID YOU watch this interview? Regardless if you did, how can you expect me to believe this woman when she defies the very logic of emotions?

Nappa, your rants are full of assumptions and a half-baked suspicions. Your criticisms of this man are based on your assumptions about people. You assume that he's lying about going to work, because old people should be retired? He is retired (a retired psychologist) and now owns a business. As you're aware from your grandmother, people don't have to retire once they hit retirement age, and when they do, they don't stop living.

Thank you so very much for doing this! It makes me physically ill people are harassing the parents. Talking a bunch of smack on the Internet is one thing...calling and sending hate mail is quite another...but this how it begins. And it needs to stop.

But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

(16-01-2013 01:04 AM)Nappa Wrote: And don't even get me started about the old man who had 6 children on his lawn, that guy is an obvious liar, we have contradicting stories that he himself says on camera. Not to mention, the fact that he didn't call the police after the children told him that their teacher had been shot. You would think a responsible member of society would contact some form of law enforcement so that they could contact the parents so they or the parents could take custody of them.

Plus he says he was on his way to work? Most people his age that I know of are retired. Except my grandmother, she was a teacher for quite some time. I wonder if you people even know how to observe another human being and their emotional responses, I anticipate your hate when I say something that you don't agree with. Why? Because that's natural for a human to do, they'll hate whatever they don't agree with. Especially when it's controversial like conspiracy theories, or politics, or some minor historical events. (be advised I consider most of human history to be of the minor part)

Here's how I observe people I look into their eyes. The old man closes his eyes at least half the time he's talking, the only time I close my eyes when I'm talking is when I'm trying to imagine things. Just like when momsurroundedbyboys said that the guy was 'gaining composure' yeah he was gaining composure alright, he was imagining being there as if it actually happened to 'feel' to draw his emotions from the depths of his conscious being. I could even do it myself if I wanted to, but I don't I believe emotions are an evil thing. And while I was looking into the eyes of the mother, I don't see one hint of sorrow, not once! My mother's eyes were full sorrow and sadness and yes, that's even when she was on the happy pills.

Now Momsurroundedbyboys I have but to ask, DID YOU watch this interview? Regardless if you did, how can you expect me to believe this woman when she defies the very logic of emotions?

Nappa, your rants are full of assumptions and half-baked suspicions. Your criticisms of this man are based on your assumptions about people. You assume that he's lying about going to work, because old people should be retired? He is retired (a retired psychologist) and now owns a business. As you're aware from your grandmother, people don't have to retire once they hit retirement age, and when they do, they don't stop living.

Oh god damnit, now they're calling us truthers? there's nothing like a degrading nickname to cover the entire following of conspirators. What's more? they just had to throw 9/11 in there, couldn't leave it out. Had to pull the old 911 out on the americans. Anyways I read your article, both of them. And I have to say they're not convincing me in fact they're just doing the opposite. See rage is often the first emotion of a person who is caught lying, also the guy said he was in a restaraunt. And he saw a group of 16 'big' guys. I've never seen a group of 16 people in a restaurant, maybe if it was 3 or 4 it might be more believable but 16? That's at least 4 booths, and he describes them as though they were all together. I have a big family on my father's side 2 grandparents 10 uncles and aunts my father and about 38ish cousins. (whom one of my aunts has 12 children) So with that one family there's a group of 14. But that's a family. This was just a group. Not to mention he said 'big' guys which makes me believe there were no women. Talk about a sausage fest.

Moreover, this is the first time I've heard the explanation for how the kids in Rosen's care escaped their classroom. I have to say I am not entirely convinced with that either, one, she had 26 students now? Even though the original was only 20? None of the other reports ever said anything about missing students. Two, I know this is a little far along now but you remember that picture of the teacher leading he students outside of sandy hook? Pardon me for saying this but my school whenever we had a lockdown we stayed inside. Pardon me for saying this but in my school we only went outside if there was an emergency drill for a fire. Pardon me for saying this but the two people who were running and captured by police officers were found to have nothing to do with it? PARDON ME for saying this but innocent people don't run! You would think they would have welcomed the sight of a police officer! Also Pardon me for saying this, but the old man still didn't call the police, major plot hole for me right there. Any rational person would have called the police.

He saw a bus driver, then it was a man shouting, then it was batman! YAAAAY BATMAN!

(16-01-2013 05:02 PM)chas Wrote: Some sanity.

Pardon me for saying this, but if a testimony changes by a person in a court of law it often gives lawyers the chance to discredit that person. In doing so the jury will also become suspicious of the character. Conspiracies are no different, if a man or a woman fucks up his testimony I have every right to be suspicious of them. Also I haven't been offered any evidence besides a few eye-witnesses (who are indeed worthy of suspicion) and the media coverage. A picture of the classroom and the dead children and the dead teacher and the dead gunman would be evidence. I don't care if you think it's distasteful, if the truth is distasteful I will still gobble it up, because I prefer the truth over something tasty, and if you have contradictory evidence, please feel free to share them. Given enough it would 'satisfy' me and I would accept this incident as a tragedy and not a hoax. But as of yet I have no contradictory evidence from the tragedy side and so much from the conspiracy side.

Dude, you are one of over 300 million people. Your personal experience is NOT ENOUGH to judge what may or may not happen to any other given individual. How self-important are you?!

There is no point in arguing with you. Pardon me for saying this. But you sound fucking crazy. You want to see pictures of dead children to satisfy your "taste for truth". Don't lie to yourself- you know a picture of a dead person can be faked. You know that still wouldn't be enough. But hey, what do I know. I'm one of over 300 million people, the vast majority which do not need to see dead children, because there need not be any doubt about this. This conspiracy is satisfactorily debunked for any rational sane person. I'm done talking to you about this.

Christ, this place is like a fucking haven for conspiracy nuts running under the guise of "emotionless rational thought" when it is anything but.

(16-01-2013 07:11 PM)kineo Wrote: Dude, you are one of over 300 million people. Your personal experience is NOT ENOUGH to judge what may or may not happen to any other given individual. How self-important are you?!

There is no point in arguing with you. Pardon me for saying this. But you sound fucking crazy. You want to see pictures of dead children to satisfy your "taste for truth". Don't lie to yourself- you know a picture of a dead person can be faked. You know that still wouldn't be enough. But hey, what do I know. I'm one of over 300 million people, the vast majority which do not need to see dead children, because there need not be any doubt about this. This conspiracy is satisfactorily debunked for any rational sane person. I'm done talking to you about this.

Christ, this place is like a fucking haven for conspiracy nuts running under the guise of "emotionless rational thought" when it is anything but.

Oh I'm sorry, I just thought that using my life was a good basis to judge the lives of others by. I am indeed one of several billion people, but this means that I am a common person, and that my common life is shared by others.

Also I WAS TRYING to give you an example on how a group of 16 could have come about in a restaurant, I certainly don't see you trying to support any of his claims. And I certainly don't see you trying to explain anything, where as I even if I am trying to make a possibility for the opposing argument to test it's strength, you are not doing the same. Instead all I've seen you people do is believe instead of trying to rationalize.

It was ME who tried explaining how a mother could be so happy after her child died, it WAS ME who tried explaining why there was such a large group in a restaurant. It was MOMS who tried explaining who the little girl was and it was MOMS who tried explaining that maybe the guy wasn't getting into character but rather instead he was just composing himself. The rest of your lot have done nothing for this debate.

Also I have no qualms about seeing dead people. If you have qualms about it maybe you should visit the bestgore website. That will toughen you up reeaaaal quick.

(16-01-2013 07:11 PM)kineo Wrote: Dude, you are one of over 300 million people. Your personal experience is NOT ENOUGH to judge what may or may not happen to any other given individual. How self-important are you?!

This is why I quit replying to him. There's no point. He already said he's not going to believe it. That's the problem with people like him and his ilk because they only, like Christians, look at evidence that backs up their outrageious claims and dismiss rational thought and evidence.

But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

(16-01-2013 07:11 PM)kineo Wrote: Dude, you are one of over 300 million people. Your personal experience is NOT ENOUGH to judge what may or may not happen to any other given individual. How self-important are you?!

Oh I'm sorry, I just thought that using my life was a good basis to judge the lives of others by. I am indeed one of several billion people, but this means that I am a common person, and that my common life is shared by others.

Also I WAS TRYING to give you an example on how a group of 16 could have come about in a restaurant, I certainly don't see you trying to support any of his claims. And I certainly don't see you trying to explain anything, where as I even if I am trying to make a possibility for the opposing argument to test it's strength, you are not doing the same. Instead all I've seen you people do is believe instead of trying to rationalize.

It was ME who tried explaining how a mother could be so happy after her child died, it WAS ME who tried explaining why there was such a large group in a restaurant. It was MOMS who tried explaining who the little girl was and it was MOMS who tried explaining that maybe the guy wasn't getting into character but rather instead he was just composing himself. The rest of your lot have done nothing for this debate.

I know I said I was done, but I just can't help myself... Also, I should have clarified, you are one of over 300 million Americans. You are right, that there are several billion people worldwide.

You're not trying to explain anything- you're using your own conjecture to come up with scenarios when you have no clue. You're writing a narrative based on your personal bias, and covering it in the camouflage of "rationalization". It is a rationalization, in a way. A rationalization for why it's suspicious to you. Nothing more.

You. Are. Not. Explaining. Shit. You're making up stories. Should I make up stories too? Would that make you happy? Should we have story time here? We can create our own personal fiction. It'll be fun! Then we can share our fiction, based on real people, with the world and people will think it's real! Wouldn't that be grand?

It is useless for me to try to rationalize with you. It will make no difference.

Why didn't the man call the cops? I don't know. Maybe the bus driver with the kids already did. Maybe his wife did. Maybe he did and he just didn't mention it because that is just a given. Maybe there were cops already arriving on the scene. Maybe he heard sirens. Maybe there are a thousand other plausible explanations, but the bottom line is. I don't know. And I don't need to. But you do... you need to have some fiction you think is solid enough to rely on... but boring fiction isn't enough for you. It's more attractive that they be trained liars.

(16-01-2013 07:11 PM)kineo Wrote: Dude, you are one of over 300 million people. Your personal experience is NOT ENOUGH to judge what may or may not happen to any other given individual. How self-important are you?!

This is why I quit replying to him. There's no point. He already said he's not going to believe it. That's the problem with people like him and his ilk because they only, like Christians, look at evidence that backs up their outrageious claims and dismiss rational thought and evidence.

I said an eye-witness testimony wasn't going to change my mind, which even afterwards I still watched your interview and it proceeded to make me quite peeved at how a mother can be so happy when she just so recently lost the life of her daughter. I then proceeded to explain why happiness is an irrational response to the loss of a loved one. The problem is you haven't provided me with any evidence! all you have are eye-witness testimonies and a few guns. That's ALL YOU HAVE. If we're going to believe things just like that then I should believe in Jesus Christ, Buddha, and Muhammad with all their divinities attached. Because they have a shit ton more witnesses and a shit ton more physical evidence.

(16-01-2013 07:11 PM)kineo Wrote: I know I said I was done, but I just can't help myself... Also, I should have clarified, you are one of over 300 million Americans. You are right, that there are several billion people worldwide.

You're not trying to explain anything- you're using your own conjecture to come up with scenarios when you have no clue. You're writing a narrative based on your personal bias, and covering it in the camouflage of "rationalization". It is a rationalization, in a way. A rationalization for why it's suspicious to you. Nothing more.

You. Are. Not. Explaining. Shit. You're making up stories. Should I make up stories too? Would that make you happy? Should we have story time here? We can create our own personal fiction. It'll be fun! Then we can share our fiction, based on real people, with the world and people will think it's real! Wouldn't that be grand?

It is useless for me to try to rationalize with you. It will make no difference.

Why didn't the man call the cops? I don't know. Maybe the bus driver with the kids already did. Maybe his wife did. Maybe he did and he just didn't mention it because that is just a given. Maybe there were cops already arriving on the scene. Maybe he heard sirens. Maybe there are a thousand other plausible explanations, but the bottom line is. I don't know. And I don't need to. But you do... you need to have some fiction you think is solid enough to rely on... but boring fiction isn't enough for you. It's more attractive that they be trained liars.

I can see you're getting angry, I've told you before that emotions make a person irrational, so here's a video. You can talk to me again when you're calm, until then there will be no point in further discussing this situation with you. As for my previous post with IT WAS ME. I was trying to quote a movie that I can't rightly recall, I think it was lord of the rings with the steward.

(16-01-2013 07:21 PM)Nappa Wrote: Also I have no qualms about seeing dead people. If you have qualms about it maybe you should visit the bestgore website. That will toughen you up reeaaaal quick.

What is this shit? Somehow I need to be tougher? I need to be more like you? That's what you're implying. You are tough, I am not. Therefore I am lesser and should desire to be more like you. Again with this self-important nonsense.

(16-01-2013 07:27 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote: This is why I quit replying to him. There's no point. He already said he's not going to believe it. That's the problem with people like him and his ilk because they only, like Christians, look at evidence that backs up their outrageious claims and dismiss rational thought and evidence.

I said an eye-witness testimony wasn't going to change my mind, which even afterwards I still watched your interview and it proceeded to make me quite peeved at how a mother can be so happy when she just so recently lost the life of her daughter. I then proceeded to explain why happiness is an irrational response to the loss of a loved one. The problem is you haven't provided me with any evidence! all you have are eye-witness testimonies and a few guns. That's ALL YOU HAVE. If we're going to believe things just like that then I should believe in Jesus Christ, Buddha, and Muhammad with all their divinities attached. Because they have a shit ton more witnesses and a shit ton more physical evidence.

The claim that Sandy Hook was a conspiracy is an extraordinary claim and therefor requires extraordinary evidence.

None has been provided.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.