Hey OP, it occurred to me that I may have another site with similar value to what you shared here. Similar in material and actually, higher in value
but just by sheer volume of what is available. This is one of those places where I use source data directly to check the other with, in fact.

FAS was founded in 1945 by many of the Manhattan Project scientists who wanted to prevent nuclear war and is one of the longest serving
organizations in the world dedicated to reducing nuclear threats and informing the public debate by providing technically-based research and analysis
on these issues.

originally posted by: daaskapital
I don't care what the numbers say. The fact is, the USA has not won a proper war since their involvement in WW2...If they can't beat farmers in
Afghanistan or Vietnam, what makes everyone so sure they can take on the professionally trained soldiers of Russia? Of course, Russia can be put in
the same boat, but they were under a completely different system back then...they remain largely untested in their modern form.

Still, i think the USA has a problem of underestimating their opponents. If they do the same with Russia, well it is obvious what will happen. Let's
hope it never comes down to push and shove.

Incredible nonsense, whatever term is used police action, war on terror, the main reasons we engage in these minor affairs and NEVER bring to bear our
actual Strength is the constancy of having battle hardened experienced troops, the testing of weapons systems and minor political goals which are
secondary in many ways...

We didn't go to Afghanistan to claim or decimate Afghanistan lol...

Won Lost? Let me know when A Vietnamese, North Korean of Afghanistan citizen, lands boats on our soil, unloads tens of Thousands of Troops kicks our
butts all over Los Angeles, leaves without reprisal on their soil... Lost? how delusional Even Hitler didn't maintain 130-1 plus kill ratio over
Polish Troops in WW2 like we did in th first Iraq war and the Polish were riding Horses into Panzer divisions...

Russia stand little chance in Naval terms, can hold off the air war for say 30 days, and given some open space can deliver some advancement on ground
via heavy armor punch.

Best chance for Russia would be lucky hits on US aircraft carriers and major airforce bases in Europe. This would negate the vast superiority US has
in airpower and upto some extent deny US from projecting strength in Europe.

However, only a fool would not take whole of NATO into account and hence Russia standing alone would be at a great disadvantage.

Even if China holds off Japan and Iran and Iraq keep Turkey occupied, India holds off Australia, and North Korea keeps South Koreans on the
defensive.......in the end it will be Russia+CSTO and 1/4th of Chinese strength vrs whole of NATO.

If a shooting war starts the military comparison kick people are on are not going to be accurate. The weapon deployment we see in Iraq 2 and
Afghanistan are not the most current.

If Russia / the US base their assessment of each other on known military technology then both sides are naïve.

For the most part the wars we have seen have been disproportionate (on the US and Russian history) between the nations in question. A conflict
between the US / EU / NATO verse Russia will not be like anything we have ever seen. Its one thing engaging a nation whose military doctrine /
equipment and training are 20-40 years behind the times while their force projection ability remains local / regional.

Its something else entirely when the nations are close to an even match.

Agreed, the entirety of the scenario can change real fast when a single odd ball guy with a vial of (X) brewed in a lab, perhaps even by a 3rd world
player walks into the down town of a city and releases a highly contagious virus with a 99.6 % kill rate eh?

There is actually no accounting for how these scenarios will play out.

And by the way China imports 90% of its micro chips. They then put them into electronics.

That doesn't appear to negate the problem with outsourcing micro chips.

Using QA stress type tests we can usually catch the cheap fake clones that were designed to increasing the bottom line by cutting cost in materials.
However, the fake clones designed to infiltrate, would be made to adhere to the clients specs and could easily make it past the stress types tests.

So we grind Russia into the ground, USA and NATO whilst everyone else keeps out, Russia gets no lucky hits and we took out half the nukes so they
only have 10,000 left.

Hey Putin buddy come out, we have you surrounded.

Bang. Hold on folks i'm hearing over the radio waves, wait, wait , yes 6 megaton suite case bombs has just gone off in New York and rumors of another
explosion in Texas, crackle crackle, markets closed due to panic selling and my producer just asked if I happen to have a biological warfare suite to
hand because Israelis top secret laboratory just got hit and it looks like some type of zombie virus just got released into the atmosphere.

People have taken to the streets in Washington and are hanging all the politicians and bankers and burning Government building (Kiew version 2) ,
Denver airport attacked, crackle, crackle, people running to the underground.

Hey Sorry dear Mr president Putin we didn't mean it and didn't think you would mind so much if we wiped you off the face of the earth and are very
sorry that Russia glows green at night because we blew half your nukes up and seven nuclear power stations have gone into meltdown, we didn't use any
nukes.

Limited war ! in your dreams if you ask me and that's why I'm not buying this phony war but it is important you do else oil prices won't go up,
military spending won't go up and Putin won't get praise at home for standing up to them yanks

edit on 21-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: Mummy toe got burnt from a blast

A conflict between the US / EU / NATO verse Russia will not be like anything we have ever seen. Its one thing engaging a nation whose military
doctrine / equipment and training are 20-40 years behind the times while their force projection ability remains local / regional.

Just trying to clear something up !

Are you talking about Russia, Afghanistan or possibly Iran here ?

I have to ask because I didn't think anyone had anything as good as the sunburst or S-500 30 years ago or Torpedo's that travel at 700kmh under
water, in fact I don't think anyone today apart from Russia has these weapons so it must be Iran right.

Hitler told the Germans that Russia would be a push over too, History has shown us otherwise even if our minds are a bit cloudy over the more recent
Georgia conflict.

Technical yes I know the USA did offer some assistance to Russia in WWII but not half as much as Russia did to clear the other side of Europe by
killing half the Germans before our american friends dare set a foot in the arena, its just that someone is following me around and is trying to split
hairs all the time so I had to add it.

But unleashing soldiers with no rules will mean that you'll end up with rapists/child killers and even possible child rapists and its going to be
hard for any country to welcome back troops when they're known for such abuses, theres a reason why most countries have rules of warfare.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: victor7
If a shooting war starts the military comparison kick people are on are not going to be accurate.

If Russia / the US base their assessment of each other on known military technology then both sides are naïve.

For the most part the wars we have seen have been disproportionate (on the US and Russian history) between the nations in question. A conflict
between the US / EU / NATO verse Russia will not be like anything we have ever seen. Its one thing engaging a nation whose military doctrine /
equipment and training are 20-40 years behind the times.

exactly right. history is full of battles. sometimes, the underdog wins. And they do so with less advanced weaponry, which is why it is very bad to
arrogantly and over confidently cheer on a war against Russia.

I think the Russians are less naive than Americans in the military tech assessment.

Right again. The way our military has fought has 'lowered the bar' and made our military weaker than before.
---a. the equipment is worn and used
---b. the methods and tactics used have become habit and will not easily cross over.
---c. a superior team that plays scrubs loses some skill, then when they play a real contender get blown out..

I have skimmed this and most of you are looking at this all wrong.....

It's not the raw numbers. Oh sure they are important if we were in a total long term conventional war with Russia. But those would change to as
territory and assests are won or lost, casualties and costs mount, surprises happen etc.

And honestly in total war with Russia we probably go back to 1983 and start getting ready to push the button.

In the current situation in Ukraine/ and to a lesser extent how that might spill over to Syria or Iran, its not raw numbers.

It's how many ready, trained, deploy-able units can be transported into a combat area. Who gets their "firstest with the mostest" . In the Ukraine
Russia has an advantage. In the Middle East we probably would (lot of prepositioned equipment at Diego Garcia and in Kuwait). Who gets air
superiority and in the event of sea combat who gets to control the sea lanes. And all this depends on how and where conflict starts.

And by the way China imports 90% of its micro chips. They then put them into electronics.

However, the fake clones designed to infiltrate, would be made to adhere to the clients specs and could easily make it past the stress types tests.

Conclusion 1: China is the dominant source country for counterfeit electronic parts that are infiltrating the defense supply chain.

Plus, all those intel factories outside if China prove nothing as far as being legitimate products. It only takes ONE PERSON at the factory to do the
damage. One guy on the shipping dept, or the QA/QC area, etc.. One dude in each intel factory is all it takes to replace or modify the chips to become
trojans that are undetectable.

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