117:00 * pere = Petter Reinholdtsen 217:01 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: Releasing new test version (test02) - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 317:02 < zobel> i have one more topic i would like to discuss: libdvdcss 417:02 < pere> so, time to start. moderator and log collector is already found. who can write the summary. 517:02 < pere> zobel: ok, put it on the wiki page. 617:02 * winnie = Patrick Winnertz 717:02 * binar Benedikt Wildenhain 817:02 < zobel> done. 917:03 < pere> if you are new to this, please use /me = Full Name indicating your presense to make it easier for the person writing the summary. 1017:03 < pere> who can write the summary and post it on the wiki and the mailing list? 1117:03 * zobel = Martin Zobel-Helas :-) (as said earlier) 1217:04 * binar = Benedikt Wildenhain 1317:05 < pere> without any summary writer, I find it hard to continue. 1417:05 * sepski = Ronny Aasen, intermittantly present 1517:05 < winnie> pere: I can write it, I've tomorrow 6 hours without uni 1617:05 * h01ger = Holger Levsen 1717:06 < pere> winnie: great. please put your name on the wiki page. 1817:06 < pere> ok. first topic on the agenda is releasing a new test version. I placed it there. 1917:07 < pere> as far as I can see, the etch-test CD is in a releasable state, and we can release a snapshot after writing release notes. 2017:07 < pere> should we release the DVD and powerpc version as well? Do they work? 2117:07 < winnie> pere: done 2217:08 < pere> ok, no one seem to have knowledge and comments. lets move on to the next topic, the status of the etch release of debian edu. 2317:09 < zobel> pere: as far as i know, there are still some packages missing ppc builds. but i can either try to kick aba hard enough, or setup my own buildd for that. 2417:09 < sepski> etch-test worked fine today, i dont know about etch 2517:09 < h01ger> pere, the powerpc version will not work: 1.) do "for i in `cat hintpkgs-etch-test.txt |grep -v \#` ;do grep $i cdspacelist-etch-test-powerpc.txt>/dev/null || echo $i; done" in the build-dir.. 2.) autobuilding for ppc does not work yet. i'm reminding aba daily to fix this :) 2617:10 < zobel> h01ger: please sent a mail to an address i will give you in a second 2717:10 < pere> OK. I take this to mean we are not releasing the powerpc version yet. 2817:10 * h01ger nods 2917:10 < pere> what about the dvd version? Does it work? 3017:10 < h01ger> maybe we can/should release it and call for testers 3117:11 < h01ger> i think manny schools in .de should have the means to test or the testzentrum in guetersloh 3217:11 < pere> we could. one known issue with it is that the partition minimum sizes are too smal. 3317:11 < h01ger> many! arg :) 3417:12 < h01ger> i think we should point people to the dvd to find some "permanent" testers 3517:13 < winnie> h01ger: you want to release the dvd, too? 3617:13 < pere> are there any problems with releasing the dvd version sa well? We will spend a lot more space on the archive disk. I'm not aware of any other problems. do you know? 3717:13 < h01ger> winnie, yes 3817:13 < pere> who got time to write the release notes and make the release. I'm not sure I will find time this week, but might get lucky. 3917:14 < pere> ok, we do not have to find a volunteer for that during this meeting. we can coordinate that on irc later. 4017:14 < pere> next topic 4117:14 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: Status of Etch - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 4217:15 < pere> is the status page updated and correct? 4317:15 < sepski> pretty much yes 4417:15 < jever> <-- Jürgen Leibner 4517:16 < sepski> except the layout issue that i closed manually 4617:16 < pere> did everyone have a look at <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Status/Etch >? 4717:16 < h01ger> the "Missing user administration system" not so much.. 4817:16 * h01ger nods 4917:16 < sepski> now thatone is fixed too 5017:17 < pere> perhaps we should put names after the items on that list, to document who is looking into the issues? 5117:17 < sepski> i have not noticed the cd build beeing unstable any longer ? 5217:17 * h01ger nods pere+names 5317:17 < pere> the CD build isn't unstable any longer. it either breaks or don't. no longer partial breaks with strange CD content as the result. 5417:18 < pere> are anyone working on making source CDs? 5517:18 < pere> or the nagios config issues? 5617:18 < winnie> pere: I think the nagios config issues are related to our rc bug? 5717:18 < sepski> i might look at nagions, but not in the first 14 days since ill be away 5817:18 < pere> (for nss-ldap, I uploaded a new sysvinit package to sid yesterday. If I can get it into etch, it will solve the libnss-ldap issue. 5917:18 < h01ger> pere, isnt that SOURCE=1 ? 6017:19 < pere> h01ger: nope. SOURCE=1 do not give our packages on source CD 1. the source CDs are not sorted according to the packages on the binary CDS. 6117:20 < h01ger> oh, great :( 6217:20 < pere> we can't archive 15 source CDs to be sure we get the source for all our binaries, so we need to make sure the source CDs we make only include the source of "our" binary packagse. 6317:20 < pere> at least that was the problem when I looked at it a few years ago. 6417:21 < pere> I've asked lars risan to look at the artwork issue. the only important image left to improve is the boot splash screen image. 6517:22 < pere> and the keyboard layout issue is solved, according to sepski. I have not verified this myself. 6617:22 < pere> ok. if you find important problems, please update the status wiki page. 6717:22 < pere> more comments before we move on? 6817:23 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: Suseradmin problem and solution (webmin is removed...) - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 6917:23 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: useradmin problem and solution (webmin is removed...) - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 7017:23 < pere> who want to start? 7117:24 * h01ger pities C14 and [-oskar-] are not here 7217:24 < winnie> yes 7317:24 < winnie> I want to ask if they are around 7417:24 < h01ger> i guess you followed the list today? (about cipux) 7517:24 < pere> 35 minutes left until we should be done. keep that in mind. 7617:24 < winnie> yes of course 7717:24 < winnie> what is the status of cipux 7817:24 < winnie> and what about the security problems SammyWG found? 7917:25 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: hi 8017:25 < h01ger> winnie, SammyWG will rewrite the php-frontend from scratch 8117:25 < h01ger> hey [-oskar-] :) 8217:25 < winnie> has anybody checked the rpc daemon for security holes? 8317:25 < [-oskar-]> well, the french team is not active anymore 8417:25 < h01ger> winnie, and there is a second web-frontend now, cipux-cat-web (if i understood correctly, i never saw the running programms :) 8517:26 < pere> please indicate your presense using /me = Full name for the summary writer 8617:26 < h01ger> winnie, afaik not 8717:26 < [-oskar-]> so C14r write a new admin tool as you can see on the debian-edu list 8817:26 < [-oskar-]> and SammyWG will write a new one which will be include as a moodle plgin 8917:26 < winnie> [-oskar-]: you mean the moodle php plugin is obsolete right now? 9017:26 < h01ger> [-oskar-], s/new admin tool/new frontend/ 9117:26 < h01ger> ? 9217:27 < [-oskar-]> winnie: yes because C14r has changed lots of function in his code 9317:27 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: web admin fronted for cipux 9417:27 < SammyWG> re. 9517:27 < winnie> [-oskar-]: do you know if anybody tested the rpc daemon for security issues? 9617:28 < [-oskar-]> winnie: the problem is that you need lots of knowledge to be able to test it 9717:28 < SammyWG> winnie: youve perl skills, havent you? 9817:28 < SammyWG> winnie: so ... could you audit the demon? 9917:28 < zobel> aehm. 10017:29 < winnie> SammyWG: there are people who are better --> zobel 10117:29 < pere> for debian-edu, we need a system that install and work out of the box after installation, and that allow the sysadmin to update user and group information from remote. do we have any options for this? 10217:29 < SammyWG> winnie: k. :) 10317:29 < SammyWG> zobel: would you? :) 10417:30 < [-oskar-]> pere: you can use the cipux function on command line 10517:30 < zobel> SammyWG: i could, but earliest on the next weekend. 10617:30 * h01ger thinks we should try+help get cipux into releasable state NOW, as otherwise this will be our release blocker (if debian doesnt take 3month). we need something NOW and we have nothing NOW except cipux. pere, the only other option i know is gosa. but we have the german team who puts lots of effort into cipux 10717:30 < pere> [-oskar-]: would you like to guide your grandmother through that process on the phone? If not, we need something simpler. :) 10817:30 < SammyWG> zobel: so youre ready before the frontend is completely written ;) 10917:31 < zobel> SammyWG: mail me an url to zobel@d.o 11017:31 < h01ger> besides security review the other urgent topic i see is automatic installation (of cipux) without user-interaction 11117:31 < [-oskar-]> pere: sure, that's why this moodle plugin and the C14r's new web tool 11217:31 < h01ger> [-oskar-], not the initial setup 11317:32 < pere> what other options do we have except cipux? maintaining webmin ourself is of course one. others? 11417:32 < xorAxAx> has anybody thought about reviving CAT? 11517:32 < h01ger> pere, gosa 11617:32 < [-oskar-]> pere: two people from the french team tells me they will work on it, but I can't see any work from them 11717:32 < zobel> pere: perl4 code? 11817:32 < xorAxAx> there is even a current webmin package, packages by the maintainer of webmin 11917:32 < sepski> phpldapadmin 12017:32 < h01ger> [-oskar-], work on _it_? what do you mean with it? (two peoplefrom the french team) 12117:33 < h01ger> sepski, i think C14r has a point that thats not suited for teachers 12217:33 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: on cipuxPHP, the moodle plugin 12317:33 < h01ger> ah 12417:33 < xorAxAx> so CAT should be usable directly 12517:33 < sepski> h01ger, akai mentioned that it was possible to use templates to give it a more fiendly front. but i have not looked at it at all myself 12617:33 < [-oskar-]> They need it too but doesn't made any effort :/ 12717:33 < sepski> friendly.. 12817:34 < [-oskar-]> SammyWG: what's the state of your work ? 12917:34 < xorAxAx> so you wont have any blockers besides the security review 13017:34 < h01ger> xorAxAx, automatic setup 13117:34 < xorAxAx> h01ger: right 13217:34 < xorAxAx> h01ger: cat and cipux need better packages as well 13317:34 < pere> how do we proceed from here? who is working on this issue for debian-edu? I'm not. 13417:34 < h01ger> we need to find a policy conforming way... 13517:34 < sepski> if there is setup not possible within the package itself, eg becouse of policy issues. we can handle those in cfengine. 13617:35 < pere> we want the system we use in debian/main, but have probably run out of time to introduce packages into etch. 13717:35 < winnie> h01ger: do we still need to edit the ldap configuration files for cipux? 13817:35 < winnie> (I played a bit with cipux one year ago, and you have to make hugh changes in this configuration files) 13917:35 < h01ger> winnie, i dont know cipux well enough to answer this question 14017:35 < xorAxAx> zobel: whats the planned new feature freeze date for etch? 14117:35 < pere> and if we switch away from wlus, we need to plan an upgrade path for the existing installations. 14217:35 < SammyWG> [-oskar-]: as i said, fastest way is end of next week. 14317:36 < [-oskar-]> pere: I will work tomorow and wednesday getting the 2 missing perl libs 14417:36 < [-oskar-]> SammyWG: ok :/ 14517:36 < pere> xorAxAx: forget the freeze date. new packages need months to stabilize in unstable before they are ready for testing. 14617:36 < zobel> xorAxAx: no plan. 14717:36 < [-oskar-]> pere: and checking the remaining linda warnings 14817:36 < h01ger> winnie, there is a wiki page with setup instruction. but they are for sarge. could you take the etch-packages (as on thelist today) and try to make it workon etch? i only build the packages today,i havent tried to use them.. 14917:36 < SammyWG> [-oskar-]: was writing some tests and basic architecture these days, but dont think to write a rewrite that needs another rewrite in near future ... 15017:36 < C14r> C14r Christian KUelker 15117:36 < SammyWG> zobel: ygm 15217:36 < xorAxAx> pere: hmm, is there a fixed timespan for the migration? 15317:36 < zobel> SammyWG: thx 15417:36 < [-oskar-]> C14r: great tou are here ! 15517:36 < xorAxAx> pere: or how is that determined? 15617:36 < h01ger> hi C14r 15717:37 < pere> xorAxAx: migration for existing users of wlus? 15817:37 < xorAxAx> pere: no, for suites from unstable to testing 15917:38 < zobel> xorAxAx: 10 days, if no RC bugs arise. 16017:38 < winnie> C14r: which configurationfiles have to be modified for cipux? 16117:38 < xorAxAx> so its not different for new packages 16217:38 < pere> xorAxAx: there are two stopping points, NEW processing (unknown duration, currently long), and unstable->testing migration (10 days after last upload without any RC bugs found during those 10 days). 16317:38 < [-oskar-]> pere: I think the freeze is not finished so we can use priority high for cipux ? 16417:38 < xorAxAx> so i dont see the months here :) 16517:38 < pere> [-oskar-]: forget it. it is not going to work. we are just too late. 16617:38 < [-oskar-]> ok :/ 16717:39 < zobel> pere: several persons within -release currently try to work on that -html output thing to get ftp-assistant rights... 16817:39 < pere> xorAxAx: NEW processing might end up being a month or more. and getting packages RC-free normally take 1-2 months as well. 16917:39 < xorAxAx> pere: ok 17017:39 * h01ger added the following to the etch status page: 17117:39 < h01ger> replace with cipux? -> three blockers: 17217:39 < h01ger> security review of cipux (the backend). 17317:39 < h01ger> automatic installation incl. configuration (in etch/sid) 17417:39 < h01ger> migration plan for existing wlus setups 17517:40 < h01ger> gna. the last three lines are a numbered list... 17617:40 < pere> I believe the best we can hope for with new packages is to get the same packages into unstable and debian-edu/etch. 17717:40 < C14r> winnie: have a look at the installation guide on wiki.debian.org 17817:40 < winnie> C14r: this installation guide is for sarge, isn't it? 17917:40 < pere> ok, 20 minutes left. we need to move forward on the agenda to finish before I leave. 18017:41 < sepski> h01ger, if you have packages that install, i can try to gather some time to see if i can get them configured in etch. all depending on the time ill have 18117:41 < C14r> winnie: yes but not to much modification fo edge, i thin, but you know the diff 18217:41 < h01ger> i really hate to suggest this: but how about making the packages automatically configure first (emphasize on that) and care about policy confirming in the 2nd step ? 18317:41 < pere> should we move on to the next topic, editing of other packages config files? 18417:41 < zobel> pere: should we move my both points to now? they are rather short.. 18517:41 < pere> zobel: I'm fine with it, unless someone protest? 18617:42 < h01ger> C14r, winnie: what i said before was mostly for you :) 18717:42 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: libdvdcss - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 18817:42 < h01ger> (and i'm fine with moving on, we can disucss that later) 18917:42 < pere> zobel: go ahead. 19017:42 < zobel> okay. my idea is: pushing a libdvdcss installer 19117:42 < pere> zobel: like the easyubuntu stuff? 19217:42 < zobel> with that, we can have tar.gz, we download in postinst from ftp.s.no 19317:43 < zobel> that has the oportunity to have that package in debian 19417:43 < pere> zobel: what do you mean by "have tar.gz"? 19517:43 < zobel> and as we are allowed to redistrbute it from .no, we can publish it on the webserver. 19617:44 < zobel> pere: we need some kind of package we can download. 19717:44 < pere> ah, right. why not download a .deb? 19817:44 < zobel> whatever that is. tar.gz, .bin, source, what ever. 19917:44 < h01ger> pere, lets reject the current libdvdcss package for now. it can be reuploaded later at any time. and the current situation is clear: we cannot distribute it as much as we want/need. (e.g. on the CDs worldwide). pere, you also said you wanted to "test/examine the system/situation". this has been done. (it would be nice to remove it to have an empty NEW to easier keep focus :) 20017:44 < pere> wget; dpkg -i ... 20117:45 < pere> h01ger: before doing that, lets try to write up our current findings on a wiki page. 20217:45 < zobel> pere: with the downloader, we can even distribute cds/dvds in germany which have that package on them... 20317:45 < pere> are we sure the installer is "safe"? 20417:46 < klausade> Werner: ping 20517:46 < zobel> without legal problems (My PoV) 20617:46 < pere> klausade: meeting in progress. participate or move elsewhere. 20717:46 < zobel> pere: i will discuss that with a debian ftp-master. 20817:46 < zobel> i am finished. 20917:47 < h01ger> pere, would you do that? 21017:47 < pere> I mentioned the libdvdcss issue while we presented the free software prize in norway, and hope we can get more light on the issue here in norway. 21117:47 < xorAxAx> in germany, it is illegal to advertise programs that can be used to copy copy-protected CDs (cf. heise.de) 21217:47 < h01ger> libdvdcss doesnt do that 21317:47 < pere> the political advisor for the minister of it questions were present. I hope he remember it. 21417:48 < zobel> h01ger: can we try what greg says on that idea? 21517:48 < pere> I've also talked about the issue with someone skilled in legal issues here in norway, and he might be interested in following up on the topic. I have not heard from in in a few weeks, but hope to poke him again 21617:49 < pere> zobel: if such installer is possible, I suggest we just port easyubuntu to debian and use it 21717:49 < h01ger> zobel, eparse. i already told you what greg said and that i'm waiting for another reply 21817:49 < zobel> pere: okay with me 21917:50 < pere> (there are other packages doing similar things. we should review and pick the best of them for porting. :) 22017:50 < zobel> for dvd/cd stuff: i poked Sledge, if we can move skole cd building to cdimage. he said, we is waiting for some repartitionin on cdimage.d.o, and then that should be possible. 22117:50 < pere> ok. next topic. 22217:50 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: CD building on cdimage.d.o??? - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 22317:50 -!- oho2496 [~oho@p50890475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #debian-edu 22417:50 < zobel> i poked Sledge, if we can move skole cd building to cdimage. he said, we is waiting for some repartitionin on cdimage.d.o, and then that should be possible. 22517:50 < zobel> that is only a status update. 22617:51 < zobel> discussion on that later, no need to held that now. 22717:51 < h01ger> zobel, did you ask him if we can get access there too, to fix our builds? 22817:51 < zobel> h01ger: need to work that out, so no. 22917:51 < zobel> not yet. 23017:51 < pere> sounds good. will this be for build only, or can we have a archive of old images as well? 23117:52 < h01ger> maybe it would better, to keep building on a.s.n and just copy the images over? 23217:52 < h01ger> +be 23317:52 < zobel> pere: lets set up a wiki page with questions, i will discuss that with Sledge leter. 23417:53 < pere> h01ger: yes, it might. we need to log in and fix the build from time to time, when the toplevel makefile get a bug. 23517:53 < zobel> next topic. 23617:53 -!- pere has changed the topic to Meeting in progress, topic: Editing other packages config files... #311188 - see <URL: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting > 23717:53 < pere> 7 minutes left 23817:53 < h01ger> i guess its too late in the release-process to just replace syslog with syslog-ng? 23917:54 < zobel> h01ger: yes 24017:54 < pere> h01ger: not for us. :) does it support preseeding of the stuff we need? 24117:54 < h01ger> zobel, see. go away, do debian work :-D 24217:54 < h01ger> pere, i have not checked yet 24317:54 < winnie> h01ger: I'm checking right now 24417:55 < pere> syslog-ng isn't frozen yet, so we might even get the fixes we need into it, if its maintainer is friendly. 24517:55 < winnie> pere: syslog-ng doesn't use debconf yet 24617:55 < pere> :( 24717:55 < pere> oh, well. did anyone have time to review our cfengine rules, and drop stuff we no longer need? 24817:55 < h01ger> winnie, can you write a mail to the maintainer and ask for his opinion? 24917:56 < winnie> but it should be quite easy to write a patch and send it to the maintainer 25017:56 < h01ger> white, ask him first :) less work 25117:56 < winnie> h01ger: yes, I will do this tomorrow 25217:56 < winnie> okay I have to leave right now :S 25317:57 < pere> anyone know what the release managers view on localization-config is? It have the same problem we have. 25417:58 < zobel> has it udebs? 25517:58 < pere> will it help to move our editing code into the udeb? 25617:58 < pere> zobel: what do you mean? localization-config have both deb and udeb. 25717:58 < sepski> pere, that would not solve the upgrade issues would it ? 25817:58 < zobel> pere: if it has udebs, it might get harder, as soon as RC1 is out. 25917:58 < pere> sepski: nope. :) 26017:58 < h01ger> zobel, localisation-config also modifies config files but is not RC buggy. thats why pere is asking 26117:59 < zobel> ah, okay. 26217:59 < zobel> h01ger: bug-#? 26317:59 < pere> zobel: why is it getting harder? 26417:59 < h01ger> zobel, #311188 26517:59 < pere> (or what is getting harder after rc is out?) 26617:59 < sepski> i feel that solving the policy issue thru a workaround is pointless. we should either fix the blocking bugs to make them configureable. or/and, make our cfengine so good, that it can run from crontab 26717:59 < h01ger> zobel, localistaion config has no bug 26817:59 * h01ger nods sepski 26917:59 < sepski> if it runs on crontab it will fix packages broken by upgrades 27018:00 < sepski> and then nobody can say we modify anything by installing it. 27118:00 < sepski> a preseedable questions where we enable the cronjobs will do it for us. 27218:00 < pere> sepski: well, I believe the only solution for the upgrade issue is to make sure the debian packages themselves keep the configuration during upgrades. 27318:01 < sepski> that would be the best 27418:01 < pere> did anyone have a look at the work done by sergio? moving away the modified config files during upgrades, and moving them back afterwards. 27518:01 < pere> ok, my time is up. 27618:01 < pere> next meeting/ 27718:01 < pere> ? 27818:02 < pere> in 14 days? 27918:02 < zobel> okay with me. 28018:02 * h01ger nods 28118:02 < h01ger> C14r, [-oskar-] ? 28218:02 < pere> 2006-11-13 17:00 UTC? 28318:02 < zobel> winnie: please try to solve 370332 inhouse next days. 28418:02 < zobel> a bit later please. 28518:02 < [-oskar-]> h01ger: ok 28618:02 < zobel> pere: ^ 28718:03 < pere> white in australia asked to have it earlier. that is how we ended up with 17:00 UTC. 28818:03 < zobel> i ususally come from work around 1700 CET. 28918:03 < zobel> s/CET/UTC/ 29018:03 < zobel> and white did not attend today.... :) 29118:03 < pere> zenit: yes. he is working on his exams. 29218:04 < pere> should resurfase in 2-3 days. 29318:04 < zobel> okay. 29418:04 < pere> I'm not confortable with changing the time again, without discussing it again on the mailing list. 29518:04 < zobel> k. 29618:04 < zobel> i dont wont to be show-stopper for that. 29718:05 < pere> ok. in 14 days. same time as today. see you all later, on this channel. :) 29818:05 * pere need to run. 29918:06 -!- pere has changed the topic to Next meeting on November 13th, 17 UTC, see <http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Meeting> | test daily build for test02 300