Seriously I don't recall any awesome events taking place in alliance cities (theramore doesn't count). Alliance got to attack Undercity AND Orgrimmar. I have yet to see a horde attack/destruction of any city of consequence. And just because zomg the horde gets to keep their cities, it doesn't mean that it's not completely awesome to take part in it. You all need to realize this game will NEVER alter the story to make things unbalanced for gameplay. If you all did get to destroy org and the horde then what? no more WoW? Or how would you like if you destroyed Org, and zomg horde now gets even bigger super horde capital. I'm sure the qq would be even bigger if that happened.

Point is, alliance isn't going to win the war, neither is horde. Because WoW isn't going to end yet. And when the warcraft story does end, it will be "both sides found peace" the end.

The Horde booted the Worgen out of Gilneas and completely deposed them of their zone, while the Forsaken now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Southshore/Hillsbrad, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Azshara, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes.

And then yes, they freakin' blew up Theramore. And now the Alliance gets to HELP the Horde reclaim their own city. Not exactly grounds for "fist bumping." "Yeah, we got to set foot in Orgrimmar! Alright! Well, that was fun... Horde, you guys can take it from here."

Undercity was closer to an actual "Alliance fist pump" moment because they went in there with the INTENT to retake undercity. Not some "we'll help the horde because we're best frenemies" crap.

“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow

The Horde booted the Worgen out of Gilneas and completely deposed them of their zone, while the Forsaken now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Southshore/Hillsbrad, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Azshara, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes.

And the Horde have watched their faction degrade into bloodthirsty monstrosities for two years now.

No. Alliance gets to help Horde liberate both cities. The only one that made sense in context was Undercity - Varian wanted to take it for himself, Jaina stopped him. But both have the same outcome - remove traitors of the Horde from Horde cities, so the rest of the Horde can retake control.

One has good storytelling. The other does not.

The Alliance were never mad about Undercity because it made sense, and because they got to do exactly the same thing as the Horde but from their own perspective (which was as equally fleshed out and detailed). Both had the same amount of lead-up to that event, from different perspectives. Both got to feel like utter badasses during that cutscene.

The same can not be said about Seige of Ogrimmar - it is a Horde story that the Alliance is allowed to tag along with for gameplay reasons.

Seriously I don't recall any awesome events taking place in alliance cities (theramore doesn't count). Alliance got to attack Undercity AND Orgrimmar. I have yet to see a horde attack/destruction of any city of consequence. And just because zomg the horde gets to keep their cities, it doesn't mean that it's not completely awesome to take part in it. You all need to realize this game will NEVER alter the story to make things unbalanced for gameplay. If you all did get to destroy org and the horde then what? no more WoW? Or how would you like if you destroyed Org, and zomg horde now gets even bigger super horde capital. I'm sure the qq would be even bigger if that happened.

Point is, alliance isn't going to win the war, neither is horde. Because WoW isn't going to end yet. And when the warcraft story does end, it will be "both sides found peace" the end.

The Orcs destroyed Stormwind in the First War and has a racial capital city under the ruined former center capital of Human civilisation. You can run around freely and unbothered in capitals of (former) human kingdoms Dalaran, Stromgarde and Alterac (which are ruined) and even Gilneas (although it is empty).
In MoP you destroy Theramore, infiltrate Darnassus and Dalaran. What more do you want?

Please, give me examples of a track record of lying about storylines. Not ret-cons, which is later changes to fit a changed storyline, but outright lies. Go ahead.

I know we all want to be seen as critical thinkers that don't just believe everything that we're spoon-fed but being a critical thinker doesn't mean everything should be treated as a lie.

You want one? Trials of the High King. Here, have another! Alliance Fist Pump. Want one more? Saying that everyone will love Varian by the end of Orgrimmar. Yes, all of these are storylines and Blizzard DID promise these things. All of them have been put in the game...badly...with no shred of referance to the promises of before.

Meanwhile, when the Horde are promised bad-ass things, they get it.

@Lokahn

Sure, you're faction is split into two. But you got a badass story about the damn thing. You actually got good quests that show what's happening. You don't have a right to bitch about anything.

If they would have added Dalaran probably most people here that complain that they didn´t add Dalaran would probably complain about them wasting time to add dalaran when they could spent that time on the fights instead.

Sure, you're faction is split into two. But you got a badass story about the damn thing. You actually got good quests that show what's happening. You don't have a right to bitch about anything.

I was originally gunna write up a long post explaining just why it's not really been fun being Horde for those that really liked the Warcraft 3 Horde. But I don't think it'll achieve much in any case.

I will say though that having played through the quests with both Horde and Alliance chars, the Alliance has better and more coherently presented quests throughout Wrath, Cata and MoP. The only black mark would be the 5.3 quests, which I reckon should have had some form of siege preparation quests Alliance-side, even if it culminated in the same gather-bunch-of-mats-for-rebellion. On the other hand, BLOODY MOIRA BRONZEBEARD DOING THINGS. And actually being awesome at it.

The Horde booted the Worgen out of Gilneas and completely deposed them of their zone, while the Forsaken now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Southshore/Hillsbrad, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Azshara, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes.

And then yes, they freakin' blew up Theramore. And now the Alliance gets to HELP the Horde reclaim their own city. Not exactly grounds for "fist bumping." "Yeah, we got to set foot in Orgrimmar! Alright! Well, that was fun... Horde, you guys can take it from here."

Undercity was closer to an actual "Alliance fist pump" moment because they went in there with the INTENT to retake undercity. Not some "we'll help the horde because we're best frenemies" crap.

Kaleredar you only reinforce the fact that alliance players have no idea what they are talking about and are complaining to complain.

For 1. Hillsbrad was always a neutral zone. You must be a cata player though so you wouldn't know.

2. Azshara was never really a leveling zone before cata nor did the alliance have much of a foothold there anyways. It makes sense to be a horde low level zone because it is the same distance from Orgimmar in respect to Stormwind is to elwynn forest.

3. So you get to attack two horde capitol cities and the alliance deserve more I mean you just admitted Undercity was a "fist bumping moment"

So I guess what I want to know is what is the proper ending to 5.4 to you? No more horde at all? Or do we get to build a huge new city. I mean either way your not going to like it. You are asking for unrealistic outcomes and it is making you and the rest of the alliance whiners look like spoiled children.

- - - Updated - - -

NEW 5.4 ENDING!

-Horde have been removed from the game.
-Thrall, Garrosh, Vol'jin, Lothemar, Salvanas, and Baine are dead.
-All horde players must reroll.

This is Kaleredar's ending, it sounds so cool. No more PvP, no more interesting alliance vs horde war.

that was before Hellscream recruited the Sunreavers to wage a war by proxy. Espionage, subversion and general treachery are all acts of war. Dalaran is still a place of learning, Horde learn not to fuck with it

Jaina is the one who initiated war by using her diplomatically neutral city as staging grounds for the Alliance incursion into Horde a stonesthrow from two Horde capitals.

Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang

"I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"

They really didn't need to say anything more than "Dalaran over orgrimmar would've been a non-stop lagfest for 90% of the playerbase". Instead they add BS excuses and diminish their credibility.

Sorry, but they only diminish their credibility to people like yourself, who are probably never convinced enough and are likely to dissagree with every statement from blizzard if it's against their own interest. Also the lagfest could be a performance thing, but really I don't know why everyone all of the sudden thinks performance issues are always lagfests...

Stop being in this tunnelvision where you should always get what you want or else Blizzard is lazy, lying or whatever...... You are making a complete fool of yourself.

This is Kaleredar's ending, it sounds so cool. No more PvP, no more interesting alliance vs horde war.

Lol, it is so sad you can't PvP with your own faction. /sarcasm
Wake up, friend! There is no interesting horde vs alliance war since opening gates event in Wrath. And, looking at the way Blizzard develops storyline, there never would be, since Alliance is never given an equal balanced chance of retaliation.

The Horde booted the Worgen out of Gilneas and completely deposed them of their zone, while the Forsaken now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Southshore/Hillsbrad, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes. They kicked the Alliance out of Azshara, while the Horde now get to use that area for leveling purposes.

And then yes, they freakin' blew up Theramore. And now the Alliance gets to HELP the Horde reclaim their own city. Not exactly grounds for "fist bumping." "Yeah, we got to set foot in Orgrimmar! Alright! Well, that was fun... Horde, you guys can take it from here."

Undercity was closer to an actual "Alliance fist pump" moment because they went in there with the INTENT to retake undercity. Not some "we'll help the horde because we're best frenemies" crap.

Horde removing the Worgen from Gilneas was more of a balanced approach. We get to use the zone for like 30-45 minutes if you're questing in Silverpine and that's pretty much it. At least you can use it for the entirety of the leveling experience. It's likely the reason they went this route is they didn't want to go through the trouble of having to design and implement NPCs in there to function as a capital. Basically lazy. Granted Alliance can't even visit the Goblin starting area, but NOBODY can revisit it. Having Gilneas fleshed out could make sense in the future, but would imbalance the game considering there isn't a Goblin counterpart.

Horde leveling zones weren't fleshed out AT ALL from in Vanilla, TBC and WoTLK. At least concerning Azeroth. Them changing Southshore and Hillsbrad was an attempt at rebalancing some. The Alliance did have quests in Southshore, granted it was small but the Horde really had no counterpart at all. It was a 20-30 zone for Horde in Vanilla which was done very haphazardly. It would be akin to the Horde having quests in Wetlands or Darkshire, which we had absolutely zero purpose to be in. When Cataclysm came out they rebalanced the zone and Hillsbrad was a really good place to start. Historically Southshore was important, but from a gameplay perspective it was stupid that there was a semi major Alliance settlement in a predominately Horde area.

Can't see why anybody would complain about Azshara to be honest. Yes historically by 'lore' it would be a heavy Alliance hub, but it makes absolutely zero sense in a gameplay perspective. It occupies a border with the Horde capital and let's be honest, it was an unused piece of fucking shit until Cataclysm. So they turned it into an alternate 10-20 zone for the Horde. Before the Horde had two options for 10-20 zones. Silverpine or the Barrens. Alliance had access to Loch Modan, Darkshore and Westfall. Obviously I'm excluding TBC Draenei/BE 10-20 zones, but the point still stands. Horde had little variety.

I can honestly sympathize with the Alliance with the fact that little of their victories are reflected with the in-game environment as of late, but what can you do? All of the things they did in Cataclysm were to bring the Horde back up to snuff in the leveling areas. We got to see some cool things and maybe it looks like extreme bias, but as they stated it was mostly for the gameplay experience. Gameplay trumps all in this game and while it might seem unfair that it went from 55-45 for Alliance in zone control in the first few expansions, it needed to happen because the Horde leveling experience was fucking shit. There is a reason why ALL of the Horde knows the BARRENS, because it was the only fucking area you could do in that level range.

I really don't care who controls what zones. I wouldn't care if Alliance owned 70% of it compared to the Horde, I really wouldn't. What I do care about is gameplay and so doesn't Blizzard. If they could go back in time with unlimited resources and retrofit all the zones to have flawless phasing and dynamic changes in the environment to show who won a battle in such area, it would be fucking awesome. They can't and while I like lore a lot, I'd rather they make new shit.

As far as the OP goes, I just think it would look really stupid with Dalaran in the air lol. Yes it would probably make sense that both factions would pull out all the stops to get rid of Garrosh (well aside from the point that logically it would be easier to just block the place off and wait them out). But seeing a giant sparkling purple and pink city in contrast to an area like Durotar/Orgrimmar would just look fucking stupid. Never mind the fact that having a city like Dalaran on top of a major Horde capital (if we were talking having it out in the world in 5.4) would probably cause performance issues for a lot of people.

The real reason why we will not see (I fear that never) the Alliance-exclusive Dalaran is simply because of the Blizzard's favoritism towards the Horde. Blizzard never will give the Alliance anything positive...

really?

Tell me more about the WotF nerf, and the Alliance got it instead discuised as Every Man For Himself.

Horde removing the Worgen from Gilneas was more of a balanced approach. We get to use the zone for like 30-45 minutes if you're questing in Silverpine and that's pretty much it. At least you can use it for the entirety of the leveling experience. It's likely the reason they went this route is they didn't want to go through the trouble of having to design and implement NPCs in there to function as a capital. Basically lazy. Granted Alliance can't even visit the Goblin starting area, but NOBODY can revisit it. Having Gilneas fleshed out could make sense in the future, but would imbalance the game considering there isn't a Goblin counterpart.

So wheres my Worgen equivalent of a Goblin 10-20? Oh wait there isn't, why is it now imbalanced for Alliance?

Originally Posted by Tojara

Horde leveling zones weren't fleshed out AT ALL from in Vanilla, TBC and WoTLK. At least concerning Azeroth. Them changing Southshore and Hillsbrad was an attempt at rebalancing some. The Alliance did have quests in Southshore, granted it was small but the Horde really had no counterpart at all. It was a 20-30 zone for Horde in Vanilla which was done very haphazardly. It would be akin to the Horde having quests in Wetlands or Darkshire, which we had absolutely zero purpose to be in. When Cataclysm came out they rebalanced the zone and Hillsbrad was a really good place to start. Historically Southshore was important, but from a gameplay perspective it was stupid that there was a semi major Alliance settlement in a predominately Horde area.

So...
- A Horde tower in Duskwood with Forsaken quest givers is stupid (They are almost in plain sight mind you)?
- Kargath is a stupid town with its location being near to Loch Modan and Ironforge?

Also Alliance quested in Southshore at 30-40 which involves quests that require going up to Alterac Mountains, Horde does this much earlier and its much easier for them to reach after silverpine. Levelling flow pre-cata in EK is almost the same IMO for both factions

Originally Posted by Tojara

Can't see why anybody would complain about Azshara to be honest. Yes historically by 'lore' it would be a heavy Alliance hub, but it makes absolutely zero sense in a gameplay perspective. It occupies a border with the Horde capital and let's be honest, it was an unused piece of fucking shit until Cataclysm. So they turned it into an alternate 10-20 zone for the Horde. Before the Horde had two options for 10-20 zones. Silverpine or the Barrens. Alliance had access to Loch Modan, Darkshore and Westfall. Obviously I'm excluding TBC Draenei/BE 10-20 zones, but the point still stands. Horde had little variety.

Pre cata both sides have very few faction specific quests in the area, so whichever faction is favoured in lore is moot
I can agree somewhat for a new 10-20 zone, but making it a 'goblin' theme zone seems a little off

Originally Posted by Tojara

I can honestly sympathize with the Alliance with the fact that little of their victories are reflected with the in-game environment as of late, but what can you do? All of the things they did in Cataclysm were to bring the Horde back up to snuff in the leveling areas. We got to see some cool things and maybe it looks like extreme bias, but as they stated it was mostly for the gameplay experience. Gameplay trumps all in this game and while it might seem unfair that it went from 55-45 for Alliance in zone control in the first few expansions, it needed to happen because the Horde leveling experience was fucking shit. There is a reason why ALL of the Horde knows the BARRENS, because it was the only fucking area you could do in that level range.

You also have Silverpine and you are given free rides to Trisifal which is 100% safe unless you attempt to jump the Zeppelin. Most Night Elves on the other hand, only knew about Darkshore as many didn't want to risk a corpse run through Wetlands to get to the Human/Dwarf/Gnome starter area.

Also, Horde has the safest levelling route with areas that cater up to level 40 including dungeons, while alliance has to huff and puff their way to SM, RFK, RFD. Oh and Horde get easy access to STV while Alliance has to huff and puff to the northern STV camp which didn't even have a FP

Thrall and the aspects help us defeat Deathwing, absolutely EVERYONE is crying tears of blood because we didn't feel like heros and Thrall was to present in the last fight and won it somewhat solo with the Dragonsoul.

Now they tell you flat out they don't want to repeat that with magic missile Dalaran over Orgrimmar AND it would cause perfomance issue, the first step for the hardcore alliance fans:

"THEY LIE TO US, THEY LIE TO US, ITS ALL HORDE BIAS, I KNOW IT!"

How dense can people be, how stupid can people be, are you actually that dense?

"Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

The real reason why we will not see (I fear that never) the Alliance-exclusive Dalaran is simply because of the Blizzard's favoritism towards the Horde. Blizzard never will give the Alliance anything positive...

People like you make me really sick. Play Horde this expansion and tell me Alliance get nothing good. The Horde have their asses HANDED to them the whole expansion, it's all about the demoralization of the Horde, the Horde getting tricked into doing shit they don't want to, and so on. The Alliance, on the other hand, is coming together as a coherent force, the King had several Crowning Moments of Awesome, the fucking former-punching-bag Anduin is a Crowning *Character* of Awesome. Who's the Horde answer to Anduin? Dezco, who on his own is awesome, but had to have a wife-in-the-fridge backstory. Fuck that. The Alliance got EVERYTHING in this expansion and they're still whining.