GregH wrote:I think you are misinterpreting me.. I already acknowledged the Prius is a more efficient car. I know several people who routinely drive less than 20mi/day for whom the Prius might make an excellent choice. Perhaps there are also many who drive more and wouldn't mind the ICE kicking in every day (I would). For me personally AER is a key point.

Do you have a reservation for a Tesla Model 3 ?

2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view cameraBought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. CaliforniaCar is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

Good question. I thought long and hard about a Bolt or T3 (could have held onto the Leaf lease till the Bolt arrived, but not T3).

In the end I decided lugging around an ICE that hardly gets used was more convenient than lugging around an extra 40kWh of batteries that hardly gets used although it's close.

One drive I do often is between OC and Lake Tahoe along the back road (395). While quick chargers will get there eventually (Tesla already has it), a 5min stop at the gas station is still faster. Interesting even with a full charge and a full tank I can't make the trip in one shot! Probably could have in a PP, but a 5min break on a 9hr drive really doesn't bother me.

I'm confident my next car (in 6-8yrs) will be a 60+kWh car hopefully with some autonomous capabilities and no APU.

PS. Should also note the reliability of the EV1 (even though it was a great car) left something to be desired. This is why I did something I rarely do: shelled out for the extended warranty. I bet the PP will be a more reliable car.

GregH wrote:Good question. I thought long and hard about a Bolt or T3 (could have held onto the Leaf lease till the Bolt arrived, but not T3).

In the end I decided lugging around an ICE that hardly gets used was more convenient than lugging around an extra 40kWh of batteries that hardly gets used although it's close.

One drive I do often is between OC and Lake Tahoe along the back road (395). While quick chargers will get there eventually (Tesla already has it), a 5min stop at the gas station is still faster. Interesting even with a full charge and a full tank I can't make the trip in one shot! Probably could have in a PP, but a 5min break on a 9hr drive really doesn't bother me.

I'm confident my next car (in 6-8yrs) will be a 60+kWh car hopefully with some autonomous capabilities and no APU.

PS. Should also note the reliability of the EV1 (even though it was a great car) left something to be desired. This is why I did something I rarely do: shelled out for the extended warranty. I bet the PP will be a more reliable car.

Fair enough, but as a side observation ...You bought a Volt because AER is #1-- but you prefer using an ICE (albeit infrequently) over lugging around batteries-- and you prefer ICE trips and mediocre fuel economy to a small delay charging up a Tesla

We all have conflicting priorities, but you are as good an example as any why posts that say "VOLT of course! AER is higher!" are not so straight-forward as they are stated. I hope you are happy with your car choice.

2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view cameraBought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. CaliforniaCar is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

SageBrush wrote:Fair enough, but as a side observation ...You bought a Volt because AER is #1-- but you prefer using an ICE (albeit infrequently) over lugging around batteries-- and you prefer ICE trips and mediocre fuel economy to a small delay charging up a Tesla

We all have conflicting priorities, but you are as good an example as any why posts that say "VOLT of course! AER is higher!" are not so straight-forward as they are stated. I hope you are happy with your car choice.

Sorry for dragging this out.. I don't really care if you understand my buying choices but for anyone else sadistic enough to still be reading this discussion, I wanted to make it clear. Also I find your tone a bit offensive. You personally might love Toyota and hate GM.. that's fine. It wasn't a big factor for me.

Tesla 3 was never an option. It wouldn't be available to me for a couple years and my purchase window was basically late 2016 or early 2017. Also despite Musk's assurances it doesn't look to me like I could easily get my bike in and out of a T3. A deal breaker for me.

Prius Prime was never an option either. I've spent many miles in Prii and they are perfectly capable vehicles but not what I would consider fun or attractive.

At the time I turned in my Leaf it was good for just under 60 miles. When I needed a car for long distances, my rental cars never achieved 40mpg. So far the Volt2 has exceeded the electric range of my old Leaf and gotten higher mpg than the rental cars.

But why did I really go with Volt? I saw my options as Volt, Bolt or 30kWh Leaf. Ultimately I decided I still wanted the gas APU over a huge battery for long trips and while I really liked my Leaf, I felt it was time to move on.

From Volt1 to Volt2 I felt GM had done an impressive job at increasing the power, increasing the AER, increasing the mpg, improving the looks and making a more functional dashboard.

The real icing on the cake for me though, was the availability of adaptive cruise control. I've always wanted this in a car and now that I've tasted it, I'm never going back! The Volt also has a bunch of cool gadgetry like lane keeping, blind zone detection, sonar etc that appeals to the geek in me. It's nearly the same hardware as found in a early 2016 Tesla although of course the SW for lane keeping is much more conservative than "autopilot"... unfortunately. Another thing I wasn't willing to give up.. the heated steering wheel. Not quite as toasty as the Leaf (although the seats are more toasty) but perfectly acceptible.

GregH wrote:Sorry for dragging this out.. I don't really care if you understand my buying choices but for anyone else sadistic enough to still be reading this discussion, I wanted to make it clear. Also I find your tone a bit offensive.

That's OK -- I find muddled thinking (or is it just a bit of hypocrisy ?) more than a little offensive.

If you "don't care" if you are are "understood," then why post ? Surely the "understanding" of one anonymous reader is equal to another ? I think you are looking for agreement. I recommend volt.com

The rest of your post is at least honestA host of priorities, some of them conflicting, lead you in the end to choose a Volt. Fair enough, but "I wanted a heating steering wheel" and "I don't find the Prius fun or attractive" have NOTHING to do with your original post that the Volt was chosen based on AER. Like many a Volt owner I have read, ONE of your priorities is to drive high torque EV on most days and you are willing to to turn a blind eye towards EV efficiency, overall fuel utilization, tailpipe emissions, plant emissions and carbon pollution.

2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view cameraBought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. CaliforniaCar is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

How is it garbage? It accurately sums up the differences between the markets for the two cars. To wit:

While the Prius Prime might not please those of us who love driving, Toyota’s repu­tation for reliability and the Prius Prime’s soothing driving experience will be compelling enough to win over fuel-obsessed buyers. . . . .

and

There are some major differentiators between the Volt and the Prius Prime. First and foremost is the way the Volt drives. Judging by the Chevy’s steering, brakes, and ride, it’s clear that someone involved in the Volt’s creation shares our values. . . .

which is exactly what I was saying back a page or two. These are two very different cars, aimed at consumers with very different priorities. Has anyone ever bought a Prius because it was enjoyable/exciting to drive, or a car from GM (at least in the past 40 years) because they expected exceptional reliability from it?

Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'.Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

No, it is free online though I do subscribe... But they pretty summed my thoughts on the Prime after driving one... It is not a car that I would ever want to own for many of the reasons stated in the article... And it is fugly!

SageBrush wrote:Do people actually pay to read that garbage ?

Last edited by TomT on Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.