LABOR has pledged support for the Turnbull government if it joins a trade war against United States Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon.

Opposition treasury spokesman Chris Bowen said about $240 million in steel exports and $70 million in aluminium sales to America were at stake.

And other countries could attempt to dump cheap product on the Australian market if denied access to American buyers.

Mr Trump announced he will impose a 25 per cent tariff on steel imports and 10 per cent on aluminium, with no countries to be exempted.

“Well I think that we should look at all options in the national interest,” Mr Bowen told ABC radio. “And as I said, the Government would have the full support of the Labor Party for anything it does to convince the United States, and if that’s not successful then obviously the Government would be within its right to consider what comes next.”

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull discussed trade with Mr Trump in Washington last week but was given no assurances Australia would be affected badly by his trade policy.

In fact, the ABC reports Donald Trump “emphatically” promised to exempt Australian steel and aluminium from US tariffs during a meeting last year.

Australian Trade Minister Steve Ciobo at the weekend telephoned US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross but was unable to get any clarification. That was because at that stage even senior members of the Trump administration hadn’t been given the details of the President’s plans.

Mr Trump is being told by many sources, including British Prime Minister Theresa May, who telephoned him at the weekend, that the tariffs would hurt America’s allies such as the United Kingdom, South Korea and Canada.

But in a tweet today Mr Trump made clear no allies would be safe from his clampdown on imports. The warning came with a “sorry”, clearly a fake apology.

“We are on the losing side of almost all trade deals. Our friends and enemies have taken advantage of the US for many years,” he tweeted.

“Our Steel and Aluminium industries are dead.

“Sorry, it’s time for change! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”

Mr Trump’s move move could ignight a trade war, with Europe already threatening to put levies on American goods. This could push up interest rates, rock the stock market, and add to global economic uncertainty.

“So clearly this is the number one priority at the moment in the bilateral relationship that Australia should be pressing to the United States,” Mr Bowen said.

“One, an exemption for Australia, and two, more broadly, to step back a trade war here would be very damaging to everybody involved including the United States.

“This is a matter where all Governments in the world are fully entitled to press the incumbent administration on what should happen, and most particularly nations like ours who, we are told, are key strategic allies in the United States.

“We would need to see that reflected in a detailed policy response, not just in words and sentiment.”

Well Trumps Fucked the USA up royally with the pending trade war with China and Mexico He has gone and made every single one of the USA's Allies declare they will Retaliate with their own tariffs on US goods.

the USA will go from 2nd biggest trader to barely trading.

_________________My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?

veya_victaous wrote:Well Trumps Fucked the USA up royally with the pending trade war with China and Mexico He has gone and made every single one of the USA's Allies declare they will Retaliate with their own tariffs on US goods.

the USA will go from 2nd biggest trader to barely trading.

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".

_________________Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

veya_victaous wrote:Well Trumps Fucked the USA up royally with the pending trade war with China and Mexico He has gone and made every single one of the USA's Allies declare they will Retaliate with their own tariffs on US goods.

the USA will go from 2nd biggest trader to barely trading.

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe. SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

_________________My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe. SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

It's funny how you are all of a sudden worried about a country raising a tarriff which is the same as a tax. I'm glad to see you beginning to understand how they can hurt an economy and consumers even if they are targeting and paid by global corporations.

Now if I could just see some consistency in your positions.

_________________Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe. SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

It's funny how you are all of a sudden worried about a country raising a tarriff which is the same as a tax. I'm glad to see you beginning to understand how they can hurt an economy and consumers even if they are targeting and paid by global corporations.

Now if I could just see some consistency in your positions.

Taxes on Goods and Services are by Nature regressive taxes (unless they are specifically targeted "luxury" taxes) as the tax is a greater proportion of the lower income earners available resources I support a progressive Income tax system where the More you earn the higher your tax rate

All Taxes are not Equal, and do not serve the same purposeTo Raise funds to Provide Public services is Very different than to decrease the competitiveness of a more efficient producer.

My position is Consistent but is Nuanced enough o Actually be based in reality as opposed to Your Comic book madness

_________________My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?

It's funny how you are all of a sudden worried about a country raising a tarriff which is the same as a tax. I'm glad to see you beginning to understand how they can hurt an economy and consumers even if they are targeting and paid by global corporations.

Now if I could just see some consistency in your positions.

Taxes on Goods and Services are by Nature regressive taxes (unless they are specifically targeted "luxury" taxes) as the tax is a greater proportion of the lower income earners available resources I support a progressive Income tax system where the More you earn the higher your tax rate

All Taxes are not Equal, and do not serve the same purposeTo Raise funds to Provide Public services is Very different than to decrease the competitiveness of a more efficient producer.

My position is Consistent but is Nuanced enough o Actually be based in reality as opposed to Your Comic book madness

You are correct about consumption taxes being slightly worse than a progressive income tax, but all taxes drive up the costs of products directly or indirectly.

_________________Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

* Raise the tax-free threshold, and the progressive tax levels for those low paid workers -- so that they have more takehome pay to buy more food..

Tariffs put up prices of imported goods, thereby adding to inflationary pressures for the next year, which will flow through to increased costs of living for virtually everybody. They might save the jobs of 2% of the steel industry's workforce, and give a few more a nice little payrise into the deal; but millions of everyday Americans will be paying the price.. Especially if a trade war breaks out in a few months, even worse if the US economy tanks next year...

Cutting corporate taxes only makes the bosses richer, as they go and buy another house, more shares, a horse stud, a new yacht -- none of which will "trickle down" to the lower 70% of the economy.

_________________It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.Henry David Thoreau

Already, since the Tax Act, corporations have exercised corporate buy backs to the tune of $200-billion. Corporations have only committed $30-billion to wages, and then only one-time bonuses, which do not raise wage levels. So you see where the money is going.

It's nice to see one's predictions come true. It would be better for American if the figures were reversed, as the Republicans promised.

* Raise the tax-free threshold, and the progressive tax levels for those low paid workers -- so that they have more takehome pay to buy more food..

Tariffs put up prices of imported goods, thereby adding to inflationary pressures for the next year, which will flow through to increased costs of living for virtually everybody. They might save the jobs of 2% of the steel industry's workforce, and give a few more a nice little payrise into the deal; but millions of everyday Americans will be paying the price.. Especially if a trade war breaks out in a few months, even worse if the US economy tanks next year...

Cutting corporate taxes only makes the bosses richer, as they go and buy another house, more shares, a horse stud, a new yacht -- none of which will "trickle down" to the lower 70% of the economy.

I know tariffs don't help poor people. Hence the winkie sunshine.

_________________Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

Your 'short term' fix ideas, are typical of labour govt thinking here in uk... knee jerk reactionary... and always creating many more widespread and longer term problems by their intervention, than they actually solved...

_________________“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.' — George Orwell

Tommy Monk wrote:Wolf... you have absolutely no idea about economics... clearly...

Your 'short term' fix ideas, are typical of labour govt thinking here in uk... knee jerk reactionary... and always creating many more widespread and longer term problems by their intervention, than they actually solved...

Not only did I study Economics in years 11 and 12 at school; it was also a first year subject in my Ag' course at Hawkesbury (Uni' of Western Sydney..).

You're clearly the last person who should be lecturing anybody on here about economics.

I consider people like you with your right-wing "economic rationalist" (you should Google that for your own education..) and pro-corporatist ideas to be a traitorous threat to honest workers everywhere.. You would have 80% of your fellow countrymen living in misery and poverty if you ever had your way...

_________________It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.Henry David Thoreau

Raise wages for the people on lowest pay, then everyone else demands wage rise too... then all that does is make eveything more expensive as costs are passed down to consumers, and inflation rises...

The real problem here in UK is the huge increase in cost of living, ie housing costs, over the last 20 years, and all because of labour opening the taps on mass immigration... which not only massively increased housing costs (too many people flooding in so shortage of housing, supply and demand = cost increases), but at the same time suppressed wages and wage rises (over supply of cheap labor lowering demand for labor = wages fell or stagnated)...

Plus the more expensive it becomes to make/provide goods/services here... the more that will go out of business as it becomes cheaper to import from elsewhere...

And don't even start me on the huge cost to the taxpayer for all these immigrants and their children... so fukking the UK in multiple ways... thats lefty/labour thinking about economics for you... no thinking at all as they have no clue about any of it!!!

_________________“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.' — George Orwell

The problem is the huge above inflation rise in the cost of living, namely housing over the last 20 years, caused by mass immigration... that wages/rises simply cannot keep up with...

This is compounded by the over supply of all this cheap immigrant labor, by it holding down wages/rises...

It also has massive costs to taxpayer... as labour started to quickly see... hence all the 'stealth taxes' they brought in, and their other gerrymandering of the figures to try to hide the problem... all the 'off balance sheet' borrowing too... then eventually running out of hiding places and the shit really started to be seen as they left govt with borrowing at 165billion pounds a year!!!

_________________“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.' — George Orwell

Didge, you are a collector, not a ratiocinator or theorist. ^ Look at your answer...a collection, offering no analytical detail. And all you do in your many posts, is collect through your many, many c&p's, tho some of them are thoughtful in themselves. The point is, you didn't do the thinking.

Here again, you offer no analytical thinking as to what is socialism. Think about what the term "analysis" means; Galileo described it as the resolutive/compositive method--to take apart and put together. Until you understand the internal, systemic workings of something--until you take it apart and put it back together--you don't understand it. Tommy does not understand the internal, systemic workings of socialism, and neither do you.

I'm not touting my skills, but I am willing to defend my position. I have offered detailed descriptions of socialism, from its history to its analytical meaning. I have offered books and articles that discuss the topic. I have offered scholars, such as George Lichtheim, Bertrand Russell, and Leon Trotsky, who are the contemporary and recent experts on socialism. Until you reach that level of proficiency on the subject, you don't pass the litmus test.

Didge, you are a collector, not a ratiocinator or theorist. ^ Look at your answer...a collection, offering no analytical detail. And all you do in your many posts, is collect through your many, many c&p's, tho some of them are thoughtful in themselves. The point is, you didn't do the thinking.

Here again, you offer no analytical thinking as to what is socialism. Think about what the term "analysis" means; Galileo described it as the resolutive/compositive method--to take apart and put together. Until you understand the internal, systemic workings of something--until you take it apart and put it back together--you don't understand it. Tommy does not understand the internal, systemic workings of socialism, and neither do you.

I'm not touting my skills, but I am willing to defend my position. I have offered detailed descriptions of socialism, from its history to its analytical meaning. I have offered books and articles that discuss the topic. I have offered scholars, such as George Lichtheim, Bertrand Russell, and Leon Trotsky, who are the contemporary and recent experts on socialism. Until you reach that level of proficiency on the subject, you don't pass the litmus test.

And tommy sure doesn't.

One thing is for certain. No one can type more words and say nothing than Quill.

_________________Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe. SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

'...The new figures for housing affordability in England and Wales between 1997 and 2016 have been issued by the Office for National Statistics. They said the median price paid for a home leapt by 259% over this period, while median individual annual earnings could only manage a 68% rise...'

Tommy Monk wrote:'...The new figures for housing affordability in England and Wales between 1997 and 2016 have been issued by the Office for National Statistics. They said the median price paid for a home leapt by 259% over this period, while median individual annual earnings could only manage a 68% rise...'

Go back and study your economic history, and you will find the origins of both problems in the "greed is good !" days of the 1980's Reaganomics/Thatcherism era, followed by corporations practically lording it over many western governments from the 1990s...

Culminating in those "low doc" home loans/whackjob Fanny May and Freddy Mac schemes in the USA/resultant 'junk bonds' with no underlying value, leading into the GFC.

And poor ol' Britain suffered even further damage by having the centre-right Tony Blair and his nasty little gang of lawyers and accountants hijacking the British Labour movement and following their own 'pragmatic' Thatcher-Lite policies..

Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA all have similar problems today, with flat wages and increasing housing unaffordability, to various degrees -- as a result of such government largesse to big business, and increasing bastardry towards the average worker...

I have to laugh whenever I see you conservative diehards trying to blame some imaginary Labour/Democrat/"socialist"/"left wing" philosophies for these current problems, when all of our countries have seen several changes of governments both ways over the past three decades..

_________________It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.Henry David Thoreau

You try to talk about 'economics', but fail to recognise one of the fundamental basic principles of it, which is 'supply and demand'...!

In 1997, the incoming labour govt quickly opened the doors to mass immigration... 100s of thousands of people have flooded in every year since then...

Too many people and limited available housing = massive increase in housing costs!

It's a fundamental 'supply & demand' problem... and can't be fixed by a simpleton leftys knee jerk quick fix idea of just raising wage levels a bit... as that just raises everyones wages a bit, and everyone is able to pay a bit more for the available housing, which in turn just raises the costs even more!!!

As the demand is still the same, and only ever increasing with even more immigrants coming in... while supply continues to be at a lower level than the increase in demand!!!

Mass immigration is the cause of the problems... and needs to end, to stop the problem getting worse!!!

_________________“Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things.” — Isaac Newton

'The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.' — George Orwell

@tommy if that were true then why does Australia and New Zealand have the same problems?

Sydney house prices have gone up more than London

it is being caused by wealth being concentrated in too few hands, the rich are getting richer but everyone else is staying the same while cost of living goes up. it comes back to wages growing at less than inflation, which is compounded by corporate tax cuts and evasion.

_________________My job is to travel the world delivering Chaos and Candy.

We don't know the Questions... does that means we cannot seek the Answers?

You try to talk about 'economics', but fail to recognise one of the fundamental basic principles of it, which is 'supply and demand'...!

In 1997, the incoming labour govt quickly opened the doors to mass immigration... 100s of thousands of people have flooded in every year since then...

Too many people and limited available housing = massive increase in housing costs!

It's a fundamental 'supply & demand' problem... and can't be fixed by a simpleton leftys knee jerk quick fix idea of just raising wage levels a bit... as that just raises everyones wages a bit, and everyone is able to pay a bit more for the available housing, which in turn just raises the costs even more!!!

As the demand is still the same, and only ever increasing with even more immigrants coming in... while supply continues to be at a lower level than the increase in demand!!!

Mass immigration is the cause of the problems... and needs to end, to stop the problem getting worse!!!

Stop talking your utter and total xenophobic bullshite, Tommykins...

Just grow a spine, and admit you simply don't have a clue..

Letting big business lobbysists dupe you, yet again.

_________________It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.Our life is frittered away by details. Simplify, simplify.The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation.Henry David Thoreau

veya_victaous wrote:@tommy if that were true then why does Australia and New Zealand have the same problems?

Sydney house prices have gone up more than London

it is being caused by wealth being concentrated in too few hands, the rich are getting richer but everyone else is staying the same while cost of living goes up. it comes back to wages growing at less than inflation, which is compounded by corporate tax cuts and evasion.

Too true, that...

In the latest "housing unaffordability" rankings, Hong Kong is again #1, with Oz taking #2 (Sydney) and #6 (with Melbourne..), and Auckland in NZ coming in at #4..

The highest UK city is ranked #10 this year, having been leapfogged by a couple of American cities.