Stumbleweed wrote: It's completely fucked, which is why it's so infurating that the god damn spin machine has managed to turn whether we want to change the system or not into an issue. Clearly it's a broken system and the evidence is piled up in our fucking cemeteries and our mountains of collective medical debt. It's ridiculous that people fell for this shit again... it's the early 90's all over again without the prosperity.

you kinda have to figure the healthcare lobbyists are lining a bunch of peoples pockets to shoot this shit down

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:01 pm

Smurf Stomper

Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 755
Location: Zoo Town

mortalthoughts wrote:

Stumbleweed wrote: It's completely fucked, which is why it's so infurating that the god damn spin machine has managed to turn whether we want to change the system or not into an issue. Clearly it's a broken system and the evidence is piled up in our fucking cemeteries and our mountains of collective medical debt. It's ridiculous that people fell for this shit again... it's the early 90's all over again without the prosperity.

you kinda have to figure the healthcare lobbyists are lining a bunch of peoples pockets to shoot this shit down

Well, no shit. No one seems to want to talk about it though. It's basically the people vs. corporations and the corporations have donated a shit ton more money then the people have over the years. Of course they don't want to see health care reform, shits bad for business.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:03 pm

xxdr. mad69xx

Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 382
Location: Salt Lake City

the mean wrote: I don't have HBO, and haven't seen Maher since Politically Incorrect (except maybe during a free-HBO weekend a couple years ago.) If he is saying the same thing as me, he's right on, though.

I'm just joking.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:38 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

Mac Lethal 2007 wrote: I'd be interested in the rate of people who come to the USA from Canada to have surgery/medical procedures performed on them.

I'm not making some big stance, because this is a very confusing issue for me, but I am fairly certain a lot of Canadians come to America to receive care for more intense health issues.

I also don't think it's fair to just disregard it as "bullshit." This is one issue where being extremely left or right is only going to complicate and hinder progress.

Yeah but canadians get their american healthcare paid for by their government as well. So it's cheaper for them to get American healthcare than it is for most American citizens. I ask you, what part of the game is that?

It's nice that we're able to give such quality healthcare to the rest of the world, but most americans can't afford this shit.

I never go to the doctor when I'm sick. I just down a bunch of ibuprofen, drink a lot of orange juice, and hope I can sleep it off. Because even though i have insurance, I know they aren't going to pay for shit, and I'll get stuck with a huge medical bill that I can't pay, and it will bankrupt me.

I'd be good if they just made insurance companies have to honor their agreements. I can't remember the last time my insurance company paid for shit. As soon as there is an afordable public option I can hop to, I'm doing it.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:10 pm

Stumbleweed

Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 9740
Location: Denver

Even if a public option was slightly more expensive than the $25 or whatever it is that I'm paying now (my portion only of course, my employer... THE STATE.. pays something like $300/month for my insurance even though I've been to the doctor twice in the 5 years I've been employed), I'd do it on general principle. Fuck an insurance company.

The for-profit healthcare industry is incredibly flawed as a concept, but shit, the Netherlands have a for-profit model and still have everyone totally covered at far less cost. We're just uniquely fucked in the head over here.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:14 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

Plus if there's something wrong with state healthcare, you can at least petition a process by which it can be changed (yay democracy). If something is wrong with your private insurance, they don't give a shit about what you think. And chances are good the other private insurers are worse.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:07 pm

IAmNiki

Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 1605
Location: North Smithfield, RI

I was billed for over 3000 dollars for 3 or 4 stitches i got on my foot a couple years ago, because I don't have insurance. I'm very in favor of a public option.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:54 pm

TurnpikeGates

Joined: 30 Jun 2003
Posts: 517
Location: Bay Area

My hand has been fucked for almost 3 months and I just have to live with it cause I'm uninsured. I'm not just trying to make y'all pay for it in the future when I go to the emergency room... I literally can't afford to do anything about it. Then when I DO get insurance, I'll probably have to lie that it just occurred, so I don't get screwed for a "pre-existing" condition.

Last edited by sparrow on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total

Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:44 am

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

Your post is fascisizing my post.

Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:08 am

Captiv8

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8546
Location: Third Coast

I haven't been to a doctor or dentist, or any other kind of health care professional, in almost seven years. Why? Because I hate being healthy? Nope. Because I can't afford it. At all. Thank God I haven't had any serious issues to deal with over that time span, but I'm screwed if that happens. When I'm sick I load up on vitamins and tough it out. Wisdom teeth coming in? Fuck it, deal with the pain and enjoy some new gnashing capabilities. So ya, I'm in favor of healthcare reform.

Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:21 am

Eric B

Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 1327
Location: Omaha, Ne

Smurf Stomper wrote:

Eric B wrote: They have to do something about the outrageous costs. My wife had to get a cat scan of just her head, $3000. Can anyone tell me how sticking your head in a machine for 30 seconds should cost 3 grand! I realize these machines cost probably 100,000 initially. But I would think they last a long time.

Wow, does she have insurance? I do and I'm afraid to go and get anything looked at. My wife had to go to the emergency room last year when she rolled her ankle really bad. A nurse took her to get x-rays, a doctor came in for all of five minutes to tell her it wasn't broken, she got a piece of paper telling her how to care for a severe sprain and was sent on her way. We got a $300 bill from the radiology department, followed by a $600 bill from the actual emergency room. This was all after our insurance had kicked in as well.

I know going to the emergency room costs a lot more than a regular doctor but damn...They didn't even give her any pain medication.

We do have insurance, but it doesn't really kick in until you've met your deductible. I've been contributing to a health savings account pretax. But one thing happens, like this, and its depleted.

Last edited by sparrow on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total

Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:42 am

cakes

Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2586

for those of you who are residing in other countries, what is your honest opinion on your healthcare? i'm tired of hearing how "all canadians" feel. a dude with a sore thumb and a dude with cancer are most likely going to differ in opinion.

--------

it would be great if healthcare were free, and it would also be great if disease didn't exist, but it's just not going to happen. i find this debate incredibly frustrating. mostly because i can see so many different angles. affordable is such a relative term. someone will be paying for it. some, if not most, things are way overly priced no doubt, like medications in this country (though i don't hate on pharmaceuticals in every way. they do give endless grants back to healthcare communities, which wouldn't be able to provide services otherwise. and they fund research for new medications that really do make a difference, possibly saving money and lives in the future.), but most of these services really don't come cheap. i don't know how much a CT machine really costs to purchase and upkeep, but i'd probably want to make sure it's working perfectly when i need to use it.

i work at boston medical center, and the "free" massachustts system hasn't worked super smoothly here. the hospital had to file a lawsuit to get the money the government had promised them to provide healthcare to the community that can't afford the care they need, but get here. they can only provide free service for so long before they run out of proper supplies, right? of course there is money going in different places, and it may not be a lack of funds, but maybe we like to pretend that it is?

i'm personally a fan of some form of options because healthcare really is something that's super individualized. someone who's been able to survive well for seven years without healthcare may not need to pay for mine too, no? but how do we work it so that i can provide my own to my family? if you can't afford it now, is increasing your taxes going to really solve that in the long run? i have no idea what the results will really be after these potential reforms, or how much the government will need for them. none of us do. and i'm not necessarily keen on connecting it to employment, but business is bizarre that way, and i can't say i know enough about finance to really offer a proper solution. i have no idea how much it costs to provide insurance to someone. all i know is that i pay in $88 a month (my "super broke" roommate pays almost that for a gym membership) for a pretty decent plan that works for me and that i use regularly.

all of these numbers are so dreadfully misleading. polls say people want change, but that most people who do have healthcare are happy with it. they want everyone to have healthcare, but they don't want to front the funds. people are concerned theirs will change and they will lose options. the way insurance companies decide how and what they will cover is just as important in my opinion. someone may have healthcare, but if the company or provider doesn't approve them for a proper service, what's the point in having it in the first place?

i don't have any more answers than are being thrown out there. all i do know is that it's not as simple as "hate republicans" and "make it free." i work in healthcare research, and i hope there are funds somewhere to provide opportunities to research new treatments and epidemiology to understand illness and disease. research is useless if you can't get enough people involved, and it's pretty unethical to expect people to pay to put themselves at risk ("proven" benefit would be necessary to an extent for insurance companies to decide to pay for it. part of why something as awesome as acupunture is hard to get coverage on. there's really no way to do any blind study on it without too many confounders, and it's harder to show benefit from observational studies. you need more people and can't build the situation to avoid the confounders which could easily skew your data). and without any research it's hard to improve much.

Last edited by cakes on Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:38 am; edited 2 times in total

Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:58 am

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