Lunch & Learn // Nils Smith on Linkedin Videos

Everyone knows that Youtube is still Number 1 when it comes to video content.

But, have you ever considered posting your videos or repurposing them on Linkedin?

You might have been missing a lot.

For today’s Lunch and Learn episode, Kenny Jahng sat down with Nils Smith, talking about Linkedin videos and the opportunities that come with it.

Find out more as you listen to today’s podcast episode.

TRANSCRIPTION

Kenny: Hey friends. Welcome to another episode of the Church Butler Lunch and Learn Podcasts. Really love doing these because we’re able to be on the go meet friends and actually share some of the conversations that we’re having that we tend to have and always say, Hey, I wish we were recording this. So, we’ve got the opportunity here at Rock conference 2018. We’re sitting at the table with my friend Nils Smith, regular contributor, honorable guest, Nils Smith, welcome to the show.

Nils: Thank you. Glad to be on since you have me.

Kenny: It’s my first time in Louisville, Kentucky. How’s it going for you here at Rock Conference? What’s your… this is the first time here for me, what about you?

Nils: Yes, I’ve been to Louisville before, fantastic city. It’s good time. The conference is excellent. I’ll tell you, I’m learning a lot about the Rock platform and I think the church is well served and this area of technology is really developing in the area of data management, data support, data systems. And I think Rock is a great solution for, especially in larger midsize to larger churches. So, I’m really impressed.

Kenny: What I’m really excited about is the camaraderie and the community that’s founded. The fact that this is open source. It’s kind of like this is the way it should be and sharing of resources. It’s almost like they should call this an ACTS church management system. But it really, they’ve done a really great job here of being intentional about sharing of resources, being open hand and generous with each other. Community orientation I think here has been fantastic.

Nils: I love the community.

Kenny: And I’ll just say it here, I think that Rock is going to be the next F1. I put a five to seven year horizon Nils, what do you think?

Nils: I hate to say that because the F1 where it is today, and I’d say it’s going to be the next one that’s going to plummet like it has, but I think rise hopefully to where F1 is and building stability, that’s going to serve the church well for decades to come, hopefully.

Kenny: Yeah. So we’re not here to talk about Rock or church management systems. We want to actually sit down and talk about the rise of video and just going back. We’re using this time to process how we are using video, what we’re learning. And you’ve been doing a great job of vlogging, being consistent. First I just want to get a little practical. You are putting out episodes on a regular basis. Are they published on a certain day of the week or every other week? Is there specific rhythms that you adhere to?

Nils: So, we’re targeting Thursdays, every Thursday about 7:00 AM on Thursdays has been the rhythm. And the thought is that my core content is the podcast, social media to broadcast and the Vlog. And so we typically try to a release a podcast every Tuesday morning at 7:00 AM. Now, I haven’t been as consistent on the podcast, but the Vlog has been fairly consistent on Thursday, so some exceptions to that, but trying to be consistent.

Kenny: What’s interesting is that most consumption happens on an asynchronous timeline, but everyone that’s been in these serial publications have been given the same advice that you have to stick to it as if it’s a weekly TV show or something, right? Like you have to show up and publish on a regular basis, which I think is interesting, tapping into that psychology of the next time you open up your podcast player used to have the confidence that there is something to go to. So I don’t know, I wonder this is the day of the week counts as a time, date, party. Does that matter? Well, I wonder.

Nils: I don’t think it matters that much. At the end of the day, I think it’s for our own, or at least for me, it’s for my rhythms of understanding that I need to hit that target. I don’t think many people are sitting in waiting on Thursday morning. A way there’s going to be another show. I think if you have a daily show that makes more sense. But, on a weekly show, I don’t think the day at the time matters as much, but for me it gives me a target to shoot for, and my team at target, so it’s more self-regulated than it is for an audience.

Kenny: Although I have heard the people who have had long standing weekly shows that they, that they become part of their listeners rhythms. So, they know that when they’re going to go to the gym every Thursday morning, that they’re going to have another episode from Mills. And that’s the type of dependency I guess you want to have in your following them affinity of your listeners. Right?

Nils: Yup. It’s a fun trend, I think, the trend to podcasting and blogging and the community that develops around those mediums. And so I think absolutely the listeners over time develop their own rhythms.

Kenny: Now, everyone talks about what tends to be a vanity metric, but it actually is something that’s real because it turns into community and feedback, etc. is the number of subscribers that you have. I do think that a lot of people have huge numbers out there and people tend to think that it’s easy to get to. What’s been your experience? It’s not that easy to gather subscribers for any given video serial series, etc, right?

Nils: No, absolutely not. I think it’s following on Twitter or follow, you know, following on Instagram or liking a page on Facebook. I think we’re innate natural for those platforms, but YouTube is a platform that a lot people will watch without ever logging in or even creating a log in account, other people have it just because they have a Gmail account. The social aspect of YouTube is still not the norm. And so building that subscriber base is pretty challenging. I’m finding there is a core, you know, there are people that live in YouTube and really consuming content, but building a subscriber base on YouTube for me has been harder than LinkedIn, harder than Twitter, harder than Instagram, and harder than Facebook. It’s the hardest place to grow that base audience. I am finding though there is a snowball effect to it. So once you start building traction it grows. But I’m over six months into a very heavy investment on YouTube and I think I have 20,500 subscribers and I have 140,000 on Twitter. And so, you would think I just promoted on Twitter? I could get a bunch of those over I promoted where in five people that subscribe, it is not that easy, there are a lot of challenges with it.

Kenny: Now, a lot of people look at that and say, oh, well you have video. You can repurpose as you can package it up and ship it out to other channels. Have you been doing that with your video series of pushing it to other channels?

Nils: So, I made it exclusively for YouTube and wanting to be intentional with that, but…

Kenny: Not even IGTV.

Nils: I took one video and I repurposed it for IGTV just to see how it did. It didn’t do that good. And so, I’m not gonna do that again. What I have done though is lately I’ve been repurposing some of that original content for LinkedIn and that’s actually done very well. And so, I will probably continue to that. I will probably do a primary release on YouTube and then three, four months later, have a post release.

Kenny: Well, let’s put LinkedIn aside for just a second. IGTV what we’ve seen IGTV was a big splashy launch of IGTV. It makes sense that, and the interface is clean and it’s easy to discover everything that they said on launch day is true, pretty much. But, are you finding yourself using IGTV anymore? How has it been, a month, two months since they’ve made that announcement or three months?

Nils: Yeah, I mean it’s only been a couple months at most and I don’t find myself watching very much on there. And we tinkered with some clients and we’re not seeing a whole lot of success. That’s not to say, it’s a failure. I think it’s probably going to be a slow growth phase for IGTV where some thought it might be a massive splash. So, I think time will tell, I still think it’s worth investing in. I’m just not prioritizing it at this point yet, but I’m paying attention and tinkering with it.

Kenny: And I think as influencer marketing evolves and on that platform specifically, there’s monetization options that will draw and I think that’s going to need to accelerate over the next three to six months to IGTV has to think about how you going to reward these creators so that they do like you are a creator and you’re intentionally deprioritizing IGTV and so how do they turn it around if you were able to actually make some cash in terms of ads and exposure, then that might be something. So I, yeah, again, on my side, I’ve put over a dozen episodes out and it’s not given me comparable views as if I’ve put them out on Facebook or somewhere else on YouTube, which is really interesting to me that you would think that their algorithms have would’ve pumped up IGTV like on steroids after that launch. But, and I, again, I’m not, in my circles not seeing other guys investing in IGTV. So, it’s, I’m trying to think who’s profiting off or who’s benefiting from IGTV in terms of those creators.

Nils: Yeah. I haven’t seen anyone yet, I have one client. I don’t feel free to share publicly who that is, but I do have one client that in the next three months they’re planning on making a very significant investment in vertical video using their camera crews and shooting things just for IGTV and they’re going to do for IGTV and Instagram Stories and Facebook in vertical. And so I think it’s more of an investment in vertical and even talking about as IGTV is thinking vertical video, more than horizontal. And I think that’s a big deal for Facebook too. I think Facebook wants this, to use more as for vertical video. We’re seeing higher engagement on vertical video on Facebook. So I think it’s, I think that’s the investment more than IGTV from a content creation standpoint.

Kenny: Now, let’s talk about equipment because people nerd out on equipment all the time and I’ve been a proponent of use what you have, dumb it down. In fact, I’m recording this on my iPhone natively without a mic kit or anything like that. We were coming to this conference and had some podcast interviews with some, you know, high level headliners here and was gonna invest in some iPhone mics and other, mics outside of my Samsung Media mic and I know you brought your Blue Yeti on the trip. But I found that, that’s not needed and on video I’m using my iPhone. I want to learn how to or I want to be able to capture, edit and publish all on my phone so that it’s immediate. What are you using for your YouTube videos and are you looking to invest further in the, you know, higher level equipment?

Nils: Yeah, I think the bottom line is quality matters. So, I think you start with what you have in historically with social media, quantity trumped quality of get more out there, and then make that as good as you can make it. But focus on quantity, get a lot of stuff out there. I think it’s changing. I think quantity is important, being consistent, but I think quality trumps quantity at this point. As long as you’re kind of meeting kind of a minimum baseline. So with video that might be once a week on YouTube, with Twitter that might be one tweet a day, but make those posts count and then you improve from there. So, when it comes to video,

Kenny: What equipment are you using there?

Nils: iPhone is a great equipment, but what I do at home for my YouTube blog, I use a Logitech Webcam because I don’t have a DSLR and I’m not a pro when it comes to video, but I want to get a good capture. I’m using some LED lights and just very simple lights on a stand and I’m using my Blue Yeti Microphone to capture the audio. And so I’m using what I’ve gotten the Blue Yeti. I paid 50 bucks for that Logitech camera.

Kenny: It’s an HD camera.

Nils: It’s an HD camera 720 piece, so it could be better. But, it’s good enough for what I’m doing. The lighting is probably where I need to make my next investment. Being in New York space is an issue. So that’s something that I’m navigating. I’m also finding just little things like the light showing up with my glasses, that I’m trying to navigate. So figuring out what are the, I always want to improve quality. So, whether that’s making an investment in a DSLR in the near future or mirrorless camera, whether that’s investment in lights I’m looking to improve, but for me that webcam and the Blue Yeti microphone has given me a pretty solid quality to get my content out. And then they went to, when we say quality, the content is the quality we want the video not to distract from that. I think a lot of people will not have much to say, but they’ll try to put a bunch of video production around it and if you don’t really have a story to tell or anything worth saying that no matter how pretty it looks.

Kenny: Now we say that the human seven average attention span of seven seconds, cold fish or eight seconds sad, sad commentary on the state of human affairs. YouTube video, attention spans have been going down from five minutes to four minutes or three minutes, etc. Where are you aiming for, for typical vlog and are you seeing anything happen when you go longer or shorter?

Nils: You know, five to seven minutes is the target that I’m aiming for, you know, as I understand it, the average YouTube video view length is now seven minutes. It’s the people that are actually watching longer now on YouTube as a platform where Facebook is like 30 seconds. So I think the platform is dependent on what you’re creating, how long it should be. Five to seven minutes is kind of what I’m aiming for. Some we’re a little below that, some are a little longer than that, but that’s been the target I’ve set out for the content upgrading.

Kenny: And then on your channel, have you been creating playlists for your viewers or is it just a serial that gets posted to your channel and then they just get catalog based on date of data publishing?

Nils: Right now instead of publishing, in six months into the content. So as I build it out and I’ve got more content, I’m going to create some playlists, but at this point I don’t feel like I have enough content to really categorize it.

Kenny: Gotcha. And then, are you actually getting any meaningful commenting or do you totally ignore that because the trolls are out there everywhere. Even the Mr. Wonderful Nils must have some trolls once in a while, but are you paying attention to commenting? You look at Gary Vee and those guys that are like completely addicted to responding to comments. What’s your experience?

Nils: I would say I lean into that addictive to responding to comments. I want to hear what people have to say. I want to learn from it. Also want to delete the haters too. I’m monitoring that and I want to create a community. People feel safe to share. And so anyone that that’s kind of distracting from that. I want to be aggressively monitoring that on this channel. I’m focused on growing and engaging and building community on. So, I’m highly actively watching every comment and responding to every comment that comes on the channel and trying to do that within an hour of when that comment comes in.

Kenny: Wow, that’s great to hear. Okay. Let’s go jump back to LinkedIn. So, I’ve been posting more and more in LinkedIn and even just sharing, kind of like behind the curtains things like when I updated my header graphic. I updated it and gave some commentary, did a screenshot and that was one of my highest traffic posts for the month. I’m a LinkedIn, I think is the underdog right now of all the social media platforms out there. Videos tend to do well all my Vlogs when I pushed him out there to tremendously well. Are you seeing the same things on your side?

Nils: Yeah, I think LinkedIn on paying a lot attention to right now and video in particular, I think even the data I’m able to see who’s watching, you know, I don’t know that Mike was watching, but I know that seven people from VaynerMedia who were watching, and 27 people in New York, we’re watching. And so I think the data that LinkedIn is giving us from an engagement perspective is second to none, from an audience standpoint. And then I think, it’s just being video is being optimized and their platform, just like we saw Facebook this happening a year, two years ago on Facebook’s platforms, they’re autoplay functIonality, making sure you’ve got closed captions on those videos. It’s a, in hashtagging is becoming a big deal making. And so I think LinkedIn is a credible platform for video creators to engage right now.

Kenny: Okay. So let’s answer this once and for all. To hashtag or not to hashtag what’s your answer to that question?

Nils: It depends.

Kenny: Oh, come on Nils.

Nils: I think that if you’re on Instagram and do you want to grow an audience? Hashtags are a great way to do that. I think having some consistent hashtags, like I’m using hashtag social media guide for most of what I do, social media that’s related to socIal media because I just have a book come out, it’s called Social Media Guide and so I’m trying to create some brand consistency there. and then I’ll have maybe three or four other hashtags that are related to the specific post trying to insert into other.

Kenny: Okay, so that’s a great tactic. Let’s explore. Why are you doing that? Because are people actually using that custom hashtags? So this is one of the things that, you know, organizations, brands, churches, nonprofits, they asked should we create our own hashtag and start to use it, and then they do it for short term. No one, no traffic. Why you doing that? If, you know it’s not popular jargon are, or are people really using that to drive traffic to your posts?

Nils: You know, at this point I’m trying to start a new one. you know, it’s, I think you have to be consistent over a specific amount of time, to establish that. And then I think the reality is there are a lot of established hashtags that nobody owns a hashtag. And I think that the tension of a hashtag is somebody can tweet or somebody can post on instagram using that hashtag and you can’t do anything about it. You can kind of erase that from other people’s feeds and so I think there are a lot of challenges to a hashtag strategy and really building community around that, but I think there’s huge opportunities around hashtags as well. I think my tension, so a lot of people will say, well, just use 20 hashtags and you’re going to grow quickly. Not Instagram will now flag your account if you do that. But you can do 10 and they’re not going to flag your account. I feel like it, it feels like you don’t really want to engage your current audience. You’re just trying to find a new audience and it doesn’t to me come across as authentic from my engagement. I think people see through that a bit. So while it will help you grow your numbers, I don’t think it’s really going to really deep engagement for the most part. And so, you know, I’m always monitoring. No,

Kenny: I liked the attention.

Nils: I feel like hashtags, the new SEO. The SEO of social media, there’s a science to it. It requires a lot of work and a lot of time and a lot of attention and by the time you figured out a strategy, it’s time to change it and get a new one and so it’s a tough one to navigate.

Kenny: Are you using third party tools for researching, right? There’s tons of tools that tell you what are the most popular hashtags, etc. Or are you just on the fly composing the hashtags after you put up a post?

Nils: So, I have to admit I’ve got a team that does this and they have a tool they use and I don’t know what that tool is right now. I do it for myself on LinkedIn just because I’m prioritizing LinkedIn. And I do it a bit on Instagram, but LinkedIn does a great job of recommending some hashtags and so I follow kind of their path of recommended hashtags. And that’s worked pretty well, especially with the video content I’ve been putting out.

Kenny: That’s interesting. Now on a personal basis or behavior. And when you’re actually surfing LinkedIn, looking for content. Are you ever actually using hashtags to search for stuff on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn?

Nils: Rarely. Rarely. I think there’s sometimes where I will see a post and I’ll see them use a hashtag and I’ll think, I wonder what other posts are similar to this if they’re at an event or something like that. So, there’s times where I’ll click on their hashtag and I’ll see the other posts. On LinkedIn though, my assumption the way LinkedIn is running their hashtag system is that in some ways it’s, it’s hashing based on other people that are interested in similar interest and it’s almost connecting it to a certain kind of content rather than just a feed of certain hashtags. Now, I’m making an assumption trying to read into their algorithm a bit, but that’s my perception, the way that content is engaging further.

Kenny: Right, so you’re saying that they are using the hashtags to semantically understand what topics that you’re talking about and then potentially displaying more content from others that are using similar hashtags.

Nils: Correct. Or displaying mine behind other pieces of content to people that consume similar content.

Kenny: Gotcha. Need smaller real team that has been doing some really interesting stuff on LinkedIn with people who are the data analytics, right? Do you get some information that’s who’s watched your content, read your content, etc. And then he is using strategies to reach out which ones you reach out to, which ones you don’t and, and following through. Are you doing anything like that? Have you, have you ever tried that premium subscription that LinkedIn offers? You know, one of the big questions I get all the time is it worth to upgrade to do that? And when do you do that? Only when you’re looking for job, do you do that with. Right, so what would you say to that question? When someone says, is it worth it for premium and is it just you should do it all the time or just certain times?

Nils: Well, the first thing I need to say is I’m on Team Panda, so let’s just establish that quickly. The, you know, I just pay, I just did the free trial this month, as I’m getting to know LinkedIn, I have a thousand new connections on LinkedIn from using the trial, so I got so many request,s I reject about half of them, but a lot of people were paying attention to my account. I think because of that service. I tried the InMail, you know, to send people private messages that couldn’t message. I shot for the moon with those messages. I’ve gotten no responses back from them and so for the most part, I think it’s not worth it. I don’t think the value is there for what I want to accomplish on LinkedIn. But, I think if you’re looking for job, I think you absolutely need, you need to use it. If you are doing b to b business sales, I think you absolutely need to use it. If you’re hiring, you absolutely need to use it. It is, Linkedin has a great structure for those people that are kind of in specific situations. I think their advertising platform Is poor and it’s disappointing to me that they haven’t done a better job with their advertising platform, but I think they’re monetizing their network very well and in a way that’s beneficial to those they’re using it for free and not. So I think there’s a good structure in place on LinkedIn and I think it depends on your season. My hesitancy here is if you’re just let’s say you’re just an employee, that’s maybe looking for a job, the minute you turn on LinkedIn premium, it tells your employer you’re looking for a job. And so if you just leave it on premium all the time, I think there could just be a place of, look, I’m just actively engaged on LinkedIn so I didn’t get. Could just raise some red flags that 60 bucks a month I believe now.

Kenny: Wow, that’s steep.

Nils: It is steep. And so I can’t justify it and I think a lot of people would have a hard time justifying it. So I, at this point I can’t recommend it.

Kenny: Interesting. So let’s just finally as we close out, go back to video. So first, have you seen more traction on LinkedIn than YouTube on your videos or is YouTube still king in terms of getting views and people to actually watch.

Nils: YouTube is king. Now, I will say YouTube is now king because I’ve been on there for six months and in growing that base, if I were just starting, my first few videos on YouTube did not have the same direction they do today and LinkedIn would be outperforming those motivational videos and I’m just getting into LinkedIn. So overtime it maybe if I continued the same rhythms, LinkedIn might surpass YouTube six months from now if I stayed just as engaged on LinkedIn. I don’t know the growth trajectory for LinkedIn, but I’m believing the growth trajectory for YouTube is as a much larger play longterm. So, I’m planning to stay focused primarily with the video on YouTube and repurposing to LinkedIn and I think there’s other content types that are going to engage on LinkedIn. But, I’m definitely, I’d say I’m at the platforms aren’t focused on our YouTube, Instagram and LinkedIn from a personal standpoint of being highly engaged.

Kenny: So, if you recall this past year I participated in Vlogmas 2017, where everyday in the summer I put out a blog which was a great challenge. It actually taught me a lot about consistency and discipline and showing up every day, but they’ll also taught me a lot about efficiencies of what’s important in your video production workflow and what’s not, what you can sacrifice and what you need to keep. So, I’m thinking we’ll do that again, but I’m actually taking the opposite strategy of you right now. I’m thinking about going all in on LinkedIn video almost on a daily basis for either short term or a year and then repurposing that and putting that onto the YouTube because I feel like YouTube is the place it needs to be. But, YouTube is just wide open. It’s not like, it’s almost, it’s not even like a Costco or a warehouse. There’s no aisles, there’s no structure. It’s all, it’s just this one browse function and there really isn’t any curation of like shopping aisles in the store, if you know what I mean whereas LinkedIn feels like there’s much more structure. It’s interesting, right? So I think that discoverability might be, probably get more traction on the LinkedIn side then just dumping a thousand videos on YouTube. I might be wrong. I don’t know what your thoughts are.

Nils: So, here’s my hesitancy. I think LinkedIn, I don’t hear of anybody that just dominates LinkedIn, which might say it’s a huge opportunity, but I’ve yet to see anybody halfway invest in YouTube and succeed the people that are succeeding on YouTube or all in on YouTube. And I think prioritizing that platform rather than just. I see plenty of people that just like, I’m just going to put it out on YouTube and see what happens. And what happens is not much happens. It’s people that are really intentional about YouTube are the ones that are really growing and building an audience. And I think YouTube is going to be one of those platforms. I think YouTube is really the future of television, you know, I think if you can build an audience now on YouTube, you’ve got an audience for the next 10 to 15 years, that’s a really significant play where LinkedIn I think can help your business for the next two to three years. I don’t know the stability of LinkedIn Long Term. I don’t know that I have to say same confidence in LinkedIn Long Term where, what if Facebook comes out with Facebook business and they decided just to crush LinkedIn.

Kenny: There’s a workplace.

Nils: Facebook Workplace, totally different things that’s basically Slack. It’s like Slack and Asana and, you know, it’s a different kind of experience. But I, and maybe Facebook Workplace will become more of a network. So I think there’s some interesting avenues there. But YouTube, YouTube is its own beast that, nope, I think it’s basically has one social video and I don’t even want to call it social media, but it is the future of video. I’m a more and more convinced of that. So I just think there’s a long term sustainability of building an engaged audience on YouTube.

Kenny: It’s almost like a reverse IGTV, right? IGTV is trying to cultivate those individual creators and then you would think that they’re going to find some distrIbution syndication partners that are going to bring Hollywood. YouTube’s the other way around. They have a treasure trove of individual creators. Now they’re launching YouTube TV, and bringing that other programming content. And so they already have the other half solved. So, it’s going to be interested in play. Now I mean, there’s these on LinkedIn, there’s a, what’s his name, Lewis, who’s the LinkedIn guy and there’s also a Goldie, I don’t know if you’ve seen the LinkedIn Goldie. She’s dominated by doing a daily video and gotten tens of thousands of views on her videos by doing just a simple daily video on LinkedIn every day. Yeah, I think it’s going to be interesting play. I guess my strategy is a hybrid one, hedging your bets that you wouldn’t choose one or the other, but keeping framing it so that you would make it for LinkedIn and then distribute to YouTube versus the other way around, which I think then just informs a little bit of the content and how you even the tone or the posture of how you engage with your camera.

Nils: Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Kenny: So, okay. So, that’s a lot of ponderings and processing that we’ve been going through. I’m really happy that we’ve been able to share a lot of this back and forth with you guys that have been listening in. We’d love for you to comment and be a part of the conversation because as we were talking at lunch today, if anyone in this space is telling you that they have the be all, end all formula and that everyone else is wrong, you have to do it their way or you’re going to get lost. You need to run because it’s an ever evolving landscape. We are all learning together. And I think the together part is the important thing where we need to constantly be in conversation with each other, trading notes and seeing what’s working with each other and encouraging each other and high fiving everybody in our networks, when they find success. A posture of abundance and generosity versus scarcity I think is one that we are able to take with social media because that’s just what it’s what it’s all about. As we close out this lunch and learn, I just want to do a shout out to Nils. You are coming out with a second book. Can you just give us some of the details? I’m excited to get my hands on a copy and make sure that that’s one of those top recommended resources for clients that we coach and consult with. Just give us some details so that everyone can whet their appetites before they get their hands on their own book.

Nils: Yes. The book is called the Social Media Guide. I’d published, the group publishing six years ago, The Social Media Guy For Ministry. In that book, I highlighted three social networks that are now dead in six years. Things move quickly and while a lot of the strategies are still the same and the same principles really had to adjust and adapt to the changing — changing landscape of social media. I believe too, since I wrote the book, I was predicting that Facebook was going to be where people should focus. I feel more confident than ever that those that are doubling down on Facebook made the right decision and but obviously things like Instagram, I was predicting in my last book that Instagram was going to be one of the social norms of the future. That one I was right on. I’ve been wrong on plenty of others. And so, it was time to refresh what I wrote six years ago. And so I’m excited to get this resource out there and hope it’s going to help a lot of readers.

Kenny: Is this available now? When’s the drop date and where can they get their hands on one? Or how do they order, preorder?

Nils: Best places to go to Amazon? So look, Nils Smith or the Social Media Guide on Amazon and the book will be available there.

Kenny: Awesome. Thank you so much for joining me. As always thank you listeners to join us on this journey. As we do these Lunch and Learns is exactly what we’re doing here is we’re processing and learning together. I definitely want to hear feedback from you guys. I enjoy tremendously when you guys take the time to reach out and share what you’re learning, what you trying out, sharing your highs and your lows because we learned from it all. So thanks for joining us today and we’ll catch you here next time on The Church Butler Lunch and Learn Podcast.