And I totally agree with you about the third person thing: fantasic way to show that, not only is the author distanced from the character, the character is distanced from himself: he's just watching himself, helpless. I thought they did that really well in the movie too: with the massive explosion when he shoots the cop car, and he just looks at his gun, like: "What the fuck...?"

(Oooh: and you've got to love the "By the time you finish reading this sentence a Boeing 747 will have taken off and landed somewhere in the world" just being slipped in there too...)

Yeah, in Rules I feel like the technique is slightly less valid (when you're not dealing with a psychotic mind) - it's obviously just an idea he'd had brewing for a while... But, having said that, all his characters are just variations on each other really: the shallowness, the disconnection, the fetishising of modern culture in place of human connection: Bateman just takes it to the extreme. Whe the sentences end mid-way it's just so jarring, like: this is all so pointless: I might as well just stop writing. This is all so fucking empty and sterile and

I haven't read the book in a few years, but I specifically am recalling an early scene in the film where Patrick's fiancee brings him to a restaurant where he responds to a coworker/friend's rant [Brice, maybe?] with an equally empty and non-sensical tirade in the name of justice blalhbalhbalhb.

Yeah! That's one of my favourite parts...

"Well, we have to end Apartheid, slow down the nuclear arms race and stop terrorism and world hunger. We need better and more affordable care for the elderly, control and find a cure for the Aids epidemic, clean up environmental damage. We have to ensure that America is a respected world power. We have to find a way to hold down the inflation rate and reduce the deficit. We have to provide jobs for the unemployed, whilst protecting existing American jobs from unfair foreign imports. We need to promote economic growth and business expansion and hold the line against federal income taxes and hold down interest rates. We need to promote a return to traditional family values, lest consummerism destroys us all."

But, having said that, all his characters are just variations on each other really: the shallowness, the disconnection, the fetishising of modern culture in place of human connection: Bateman just takes it to the extreme. Whe the sentences end mid-way it's just so jarring, like: this is all so pointless: I might as well just stop writing. This is all so fucking empty and sterile and

So, wait - have none of you guys (Pedro, Joker, Cecil) read Glamorama? I cannot, cannot recommend it strongly enough. If you like Ellis, I think this really is the pinnacle of his style and vision. It's epic, man. So cold, so violent, so funny, so detatched, and yet ultimately really beautiful. Plus it's got a massive movie metaphor running through the whole thing.

I've cut/pasted a few quotes to try to entice you into making it the next book you read...

I'm just staring at nothing or what I imagine is nothing until I'm finally moved to say, "As a general rule you shouldn't expect too much from people, darling," and then I kiss her on the cheek."I just had my makeup done, so you can't make me cry."

"I am so tired of looking at that empty expanse that's supposed to be your face-"

"A smart suit," she sighs. "Being buff. A cool haircut. Worrying about whether people think you're famous enough or cool enough or in good enough shape or . . . or whatever." She sighs, gives up, stares at the ceiling. "These are not signs of wisdom, Victor," she says. "This is the bad planet."

She waves me away. "Animals need as much love and respect and care as we give people."I consider this. I think about all the things I've seen and done, and I consider this."I think they're better off without that, baby," I say. "In fact I think they're doing okay."

"My motto is: the better you look, the more you see."

Sinead O'Conner was singing "The Last Day of Our Aquaintance" and it was either 11:00 or 1:00 or maybe it was 3:15. A big murder trial was going on that week in which the defense convinced me that the victim - a seventeen-year-old-girl fatally beaten by her drunken father - was actually guilty of her own death. Mermaids had been spotted during a swim before dawn."Could you kill somebody?" I heard a voice ask.A moment passed before another voice answered, "Yeah, I guess so.""Oh, so what?" someone else answered.

I loved the film of American Psycho, though I'm still nervous about reading the book.

Nervous about not liking it or nervous about it being too graphic?

By the way, has anyone read any Dennis Cooper, specifically Frisk? That'd get my vote as most graphic material I've ever read...

aw

I've read quite a bit of Cooper... Wrong and Period and the essays/interviews. Not Frisk, though I have seen the pretty bad movie.

""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

I loved the film of American Psycho, though I'm still nervous about reading the book.

Nervous about not liking it or nervous about it being too graphic?

By the way, has anyone read any Dennis Cooper, specifically Frisk? That'd get my vote as most graphic material I've ever read...

aw

I've read quite a bit of Cooper... Wrong and Period and the essays/interviews. Not Frisk, though I have seen the pretty bad movie.

Really, is there a movie? Never even thought too look into that...

Ya, Frisk is the only Cooper novel I've read so far, as well as a book of poems and a book where he provides text for this collection of puppet photos (sounds weird, I know).

Frisk connected with me in an odd way: I happened to be abroad for a few months and someone there just finished it and she couldn't even wrap her mind around it, so I had to borrow it. Its a bit sick, but I have a few windmills in my town and that whole sequence (I remember the chapter was aptly titled Numb) made me homesick to see them.

The friend who had originally recommended Cooper to my friend (who in turn recommended it to me, if you can follow) told us about how she would read his books on the subway and look around at people completely oblivious to the twisted and ultragraphic situations she was reading about.

By the way, has anyone read any Dennis Cooper, specifically Frisk? That'd get my vote as most graphic material I've ever read...

Seriously? More graphic than American Psycho? Wow! I can't imagine any more intricately detailed, sickening violence than the stuff you get in American Psycho... Does he mix the sex and the violence like Ellis does too? (I'm trying not sound like a perverted sick fuck here with my interest, but it's difficult...!)

I guess the mix is a bit lopsided, as Cooper heavily integrates sex and rape into his violence, but it is just as graphic. American Psycho is a longer novel where you get to see more of Bateman's life and actions, and everything is a bit more developed, but Frisk just has jarring chapters, spilling over w/ sleaziness and graphic sequences.

As a reader, I'd say American Psycho is the better novel. Frisk reads more like a collection of short stories linked by a narrator (such as Denis Johnson's Jesus Son). Frisk also isn't as funny or intelligent (I can't recall any humor to the best of my knowledge); overall (and this is just relative) it is the lesser read, but it is along the same lines and you cannot deny its power.

So, wait - have none of you guys (Pedro, Joker, Cecil) read Glamorama? I cannot, cannot recommend it strongly enough. If you like Ellis, I think this really is the pinnacle of his style and vision.

I was planning on reading the books from the beginning, not skipping over them even if I've read them, but I think I'll pick up Glamorama just as soon as I finish what I'm reading at the moment and read them out of order.

aw

ps-I have no clue how to quote more than one post, cuz I'd do that and answer them seperately in one reply instead of three straight posts.

I haven't read any Ellis, although I did pick up American Psycho and read random passages out loud to a friend one day while she was working at a bookstore and tripping on acid (simultaneously). I've been wanting to read Glamorama for a while; maybe I'll pick it up when I finish this current stack of books.

On the subject of Franzen, I really loved The Corrections, but I don't think it is a truly great book, as many reviews suggested. Franzen sometimes seems to be verging on satire (particularly during Chip's trip), which I think the book overall most definitely isn't. Also, I'm curious to see what other readers thought of the ending. I thought it was extremely cold and dystopic, but I remember reading one review mentioning that it all wrapped up too happily.

I haven't read any Ellis, although I did pick up American Psycho and read random passages out loud to a friend one day while she was working at a bookstore and tripping on acid (simultaneously). I've been wanting to read Glamorama for a while; maybe I'll pick it up when I finish this current stack of books.

On the subject of Franzen, I really loved The Corrections, but I don't think it is a truly great book, as many reviews suggested. Franzen sometimes seems to be verging on satire (particularly during Chip's trip), which I think the book overall most definitely isn't. Also, I'm curious to see what other readers thought of the ending. I thought it was extremely cold and dystopic, but I remember reading one review mentioning that it all wrapped up too happily.

Well, I thought it pretty admirably balanced the social exploration (encompassing both satiric humor and an overall despair). That part doesn't keep it from being great to me...

The ending brought tears. Not that it was sentimental; I was just very moved by it. As far as the plot goes... well, Mr. Franzen is very on-the-edge-of-despair when it comes to our culture (I'm reading a book of his essays right now), and I found that to be reflected throughout the book. I suppose that could be seen as coldly dystopic, but I don't see it that way; the ending, particularly, seemed to offer the happiest possible ending for people. The over-correcters learned to stop living their lives as corrections, and the one who didn't ever really have her say resolved to make a new start.

I think he was aiming for truthful. Not "realistic," necessarily, but truthful. And I think he pulled it off.

""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

i half-agree with what you say about RoA though. but i cant help loving every second of it. ellis has said that this is his favorite film based on one of his books so far, and that he actually likes the movie alot.

The ending, particularly, seemed to offer the happiest possible ending for people.

I agree with that -- except for Alfred. His seemed to be the sort of tragic hero of the book, and he gets stuck in a nursing home -- a pretty sorry fate -- leaving Enid to start anew. That solution is what made the otherwise sunny ending seem very cold to me.