WEBVTT AGAINST THE PLAN TO LET FIREFIGHTERS CARRY GUNS. THE VOLUNTEER DELAWARE TOWNSHIP FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF PUTTING OUT FIRES IN THE AREA BETWEEN NORTHEAST DES MOINES AND ALTOONA IN POLK COUNTY. NOW THE DEPARTMENT IS TAKING HEAT FOR A NEW POLICY THAT WOULD ALLOW FIREFIGHTERS AND RESCUE WORKERS TO CARRY GUNS WHILE ON DUTY. >> IT’S JUST NOT A GOOD POLICY. TODD: TRAVIS HURLEY IS A FORMER DELAWARE TOWNSHIP RESCUE WORKER WHO LEFT LAST FALL. HE DIDN’T SEE EYE TO EYE WITH THE NEW DELAWARE TOWNSHIP FIRE CHIEF EVAN KELLIS AND THE NEW GUIDELINES FOR ON DUTY WEAPONS. >> IN OVER 20 YEARS OF SERVICE, THERE HAS NEVER WITHIN A SINGLE TIME OR INSTANT WERE ARE THOUGHT TO MYSELF, BOY, I SURE WISH I HAD A WEAPON ON THAT CALL. TODD: HERE’S A COPY OF THE POLICY CHIEF KELLIS APPROVED ON JANUARY 8. AMONG OTHER THINGS, IT SAYS THE DEPARTMENT UNDERSTANDS OUR MEMBERS’ RIGHT TO CARRY A FIREARM UNDER IOWA LAW. AND THAT MEMBERS CAN DISCHARGE A FIREARM ONLY IF THERE IS IN IMMINENT DANGER OF DEATH OF SERIOUS BODILY INJURY TO HIMSELF OR HERSELF OR IN DEFENSE OF ANTHER PERSON. IT TURNS OUT THE DELAWARE TOWNSHIP FIRE DEPARTMENT HAD BEEN ALLOWING MEMBERS TO USE GUNS FOR YEARS. KELLIS WAS TRYING TO UPDATE THE POLICY, BUT SOON REALIZED IT MIGHT BE A BAD IDEA. >> WE WERE TRYING TO REGULATE A POLICY THAT HAD BEEN IN PLACE FOR A WHILE. ONCE HE HAD WRITTEN THE POLICY, WE KIND OF TALKED WITH EVERYBODY AND WENT, YOU KNOW, THE POLICY WE HAD LONG-STANDING FOR A WHILE IS NOT A GOOD POLICY. THE POLICY SHOULD BE THAT WE DON’T CARRY WEAPONS. TODD: CHIEF KELLIS RESCINDED THE NEW WEAPONS POLICY ON THE SAME DAY KCCI FIRST CALLED THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO ASK ABOUT IT. KELLIS HAD HEARD FROM MANY CRITICS WHO SAID IT’S A BAD IDEA. >> WE DECIDED IT WAS NOT THE BEST POLICY. TODD: IOWA SENATOR JEFF DANIELSON IS ONE OF THOSE CRITICS. HE’S A FIREFIGHTER FROM CEDAR FALLS. >> YOU ARE GIVING THEM A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY THAT THEY CAN ENTER THESE SCENES BECAUSE THEY HAVE A GUN NOW AND THEY CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. TODD: DANIELSON IS ALSO A CRITIC OF A NEW CEDAR FALLS POLICY THAT CROSS TRAINS FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE OFFERS TO CARRY WEAPONS AND PERFORM RESCUE WORK. DELAWARE TOWNSHIP CHIEF KELLIS HAD ALSO CONSIDERED LOOKING INTO THAT IDEA, BUT GAVE UP ON HIS, TOO. >> THE ONLY WAY WE WOULD CARRY WEAPONS WOULD BE AS PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICERS, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY. TODD: DANIELSON AND HURLEY SAY GIVING GUNS TO RESCUE WORKERS WOULD DESTROY THE TRUST BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND VICTIMS WHO NEED HELP. >> YOU TURN AROUND AND PUT A WEAPON ON US, WE LOOK LIKE LAW ENFORCEMENT. IT TAKES AWAY OUR ABILITY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STORY AND ARE IN THE PEOPLE’S TRUST. TODD: IN THE END CHIEF KELLIS DECIDED TO ACCEPT THAT LOGIC. >> WE SHOULD NOT BE HAVING OUR FIRE FIGHTERS HAVING TO MAKE THAT DECISION OR OUR MEDICS WHEN THEY SHOULD BE TRULY BE FOCUSED ON THE PATIENT CARE. TODD: KELLIS ALSO REALIZED HE CAN RELY ON POLICE FOR PROTECTING HIS FIREFIGHTERS. >> CARING WEAPONS IS FOR A POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS DULY TRAINED TO CARRY THE WEAPON, NOT FOR A FIREFIGHTER. TODD: SOMETHING THAT THE CRITICS AGREE WITH. >> THERE IS NO MODEL THAT I’M AWARE OF WHERE YOU TRY TO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. ITS ACTUALLY UNS

The all-volunteer Delaware Township Fire Department has a long history of putting out fires in an area between northeast Des Moines and Altoona in Polk County. Now the department is taking some heat for a different reason: a new policy that would allow firefighters and rescue workers to carry guns while on duty."It's just not a good policy," said Travis Hurley, a former Delaware Township rescue worker who left last fall. He said he didn't see eye to eye with the new Delaware Township fire chief, Evan Kellis, and the new guidelines for on-duty weapons."In over 20 years of service in fire service, there has never been a single time or incident where I thought to myself, 'Boy, I sure wish I had a weapon on that call,'" Hurley said.Kellis approved the policy Jan. 8. Among other things, it said the "department understands our members right to carry a firearm under Iowa law."The policy said members can discharge a firearm only if they're in imminent danger of death of serious bodily injury to himself or herself or in defense of another person. The Delaware Township Fire Department had been allowing members to use guns for years. Kellis was trying to update the policy but soon realized it might be a bad idea."We were attempting to try to regulate a policy that had been in place for a while," Kellis said. "Once we had written that policy, we kind of talked with everybody and went, ‘You know, the policy we had longstanding for a while is not a good policy. The policy should be that we don't carry weapons.’"Kellis rescinded the new weapons policy on the same day that KCCI first called the Fire Department to ask about it. It turns out Kellis had heard from many critics who said it's a bad idea."We've kind of decided that's not the best policy," Kellis said.Democratic Sen. Jeff Danielson, a firefighter from Cedar Falls, is one of those critics."You're giving them a false sense of security that they can enter the scenes because they somehow have a gun now and can do something about it," Danielson said.Danielson is also a critic of a new Cedar Falls policy that cross-trains firefighters and police officers to carry weapons and perform rescue work. Delaware Township fire Chief Kellis had also considered looking into that idea but gave up on it, too."We had determined that the only way that we would carry weapons would be as a public safety officer. That’s the only way," Kellis said.Danielson and Hurley said giving guns to rescue workers would destroy the trust between themselves and victims who need help."You turn around the put a weapon on our side. Now you're going to look like law enforcement," Hurley said. "It takes away our ability to get to the bottom of the story and earn those peoples' trust."In the end, Kellis decided to accept that logic."We should not be having our firefighters having to make that decision or our medics when they should be truly be focused on the patient care," Kellis said.Kellis also realized he can rely on police for protecting his firefighters."Carrying weapons is for a police officer who is duly trained and qualified to carry that weapon, not a firefighter," Kellis said.That is something his critics agree with."There is no model that I'm aware of where you try to do both at the same time. It's actually unsafe. So I would say let cops be cops, let firefighters be firefighters and let paramedics be paramedics," Danielson said.The Delaware Township board of trustees also approved the Fire Department gun policy, but the chief said the board left the final say up to him.

DES MOINES, Iowa (KCCI) —

The all-volunteer Delaware Township Fire Department has a long history of putting out fires in an area between northeast Des Moines and Altoona in Polk County.

Now the department is taking some heat for a different reason: a new policy that would allow firefighters and rescue workers to carry guns while on duty.

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"It's just not a good policy," said Travis Hurley, a former Delaware Township rescue worker who left last fall. He said he didn't see eye to eye with the new Delaware Township fire chief, Evan Kellis, and the new guidelines for on-duty weapons.

"In over 20 years of service in fire service, there has never been a single time or incident where I thought to myself, 'Boy, I sure wish I had a weapon on that call,'" Hurley said.

Kellis approved the policy Jan. 8. Among other things, it said the "department understands our members right to carry a firearm under Iowa law."

The policy said members can discharge a firearm only if they're in imminent danger of death of serious bodily injury to himself or herself or in defense of another person. The Delaware Township Fire Department had been allowing members to use guns for years.

Kellis was trying to update the policy but soon realized it might be a bad idea.

"We were attempting to try to regulate a policy that had been in place for a while," Kellis said. "Once we had written that policy, we kind of talked with everybody and went, ‘You know, the policy we had longstanding for a while is not a good policy. The policy should be that we don't carry weapons.’"

Kellis rescinded the new weapons policy on the same day that KCCI first called the Fire Department to ask about it. It turns out Kellis had heard from many critics who said it's a bad idea.

"We've kind of decided that's not the best policy," Kellis said.

Democratic Sen. Jeff Danielson, a firefighter from Cedar Falls, is one of those critics.

"You're giving them a false sense of security that they can enter the scenes because they somehow have a gun now and can do something about it," Danielson said.

Danielson is also a critic of a new Cedar Falls policy that cross-trains firefighters and police officers to carry weapons and perform rescue work. Delaware Township fire Chief Kellis had also considered looking into that idea but gave up on it, too.

"We had determined that the only way that we would carry weapons would be as a public safety officer. That’s the only way," Kellis said.

Danielson and Hurley said giving guns to rescue workers would destroy the trust between themselves and victims who need help.

"You turn around the put a weapon on our side. Now you're going to look like law enforcement," Hurley said. "It takes away our ability to get to the bottom of the story and earn those peoples' trust."

In the end, Kellis decided to accept that logic.

"We should not be having our firefighters having to make that decision or our medics when they should be truly be focused on the patient care," Kellis said.

Kellis also realized he can rely on police for protecting his firefighters.

"Carrying weapons is for a police officer who is duly trained and qualified to carry that weapon, not a firefighter," Kellis said.

That is something his critics agree with.

"There is no model that I'm aware of where you try to do both at the same time. It's actually unsafe. So I would say let cops be cops, let firefighters be firefighters and let paramedics be paramedics," Danielson said.

The Delaware Township board of trustees also approved the Fire Department gun policy, but the chief said the board left the final say up to him.