Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Ergun Caner is preaching tonight at a church called Southpoint Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida. The sermon starts at 7:00 pm. Strange, but there is no announcement on the church website, but a phone call did confirm he is preaching there tonight.

Seems that Caner is making the rounds in smaller venues these days, with much less fan fare. I wonder how many of these people know of the true Caner story from this past summer, before their pastor pays him to come, and before they buy his wares at his book and CD table.

Caner preached this past Sunday (10/10/10) up in Bear, Delaware, at a small church called "Liberty Baptist Church". You can listen to and watch his sermon at this link. Ergun was traveling with his "good friend" Craig D. Yes, with Craig D.

You will see or hear from Caner's Bear, Deleware sermon that Caner really cannot escape the urge to push the personna of him being an almost-terrorist. He is doing his best not to stretch the truth, but you'll still hear stories of his "ultimate mixed marriage", how is father in law is still from the mysterious "Possum Kill, North Carolina". He spoke a few lines of jibberish (which might be Turkish or Arabic, who knows, but it sounded like good ole fashioned jibberish to me), he quoted his smoking "church planting" mother as having an Arabic accent (although she is from Sweden).

He still says his name is "Ergun Mehmet Janel" - with a thick Arabic accent, rolling the r's and slurring the "Janel". His real name is Ergun Michael Caner, from Columbus, Ohio.

He claimed to be "a Turk", but to his credit did say he was born in Sweden, but that his family came to America "through Sweden".

And Ergun used his 'ole "Jesus died on a cross so I wouldn't have to strap a bomb to myself line". I never get tired of hearing that classic line, just like I never get tired of Rodney Dangerfield's "I tell ya, I don't get no respect!" schtick.

Ergun tossed in a new quote that I thought was great: "If tomorrow they discovered I was part of Al-Quada, he [his father in law] would believe it." Again, he is trying to plant the idea in the mind of his audience a reasonable person might think him linked to terrorists. Clever.

A strange twist to the Caner saga: if you go to the Liberty Baptist Church link above, you'll see that Craig D. was traveling with Ergun - Ergun acknowledges Craig D in the first part of the sermon as his good friend. Also, unbelievably, you'll see that Craig D. actually preached a three-part sermon series in June 2010 at this church, and the video is there! I won't say anything else about Craig D, those of you who have read this blog and followed the vicious attacks on James White know who Craig D. is, and you might be as shocked as I was to see him standing in a pulpit in a suit, holding a Bible preaching love and tolerance and ministry, explaining to the unsuspecting congregation just who this Jesus is. Shocking. Disturbing. Apparently he is a childhood friend of the pastor, and that is why he allowed Craig to preach to his sheeps.

I started watching the video. I'm a little insulted about the Possum Kill, NC part. Can't find that there is such a place, and when he says it, he doesn't sound like he's kidding. I am a Tarheel and not from Possum Kill.

The "charming" beginning is taking forever.

And I'd ask again, how would anybody in that auditorium have any clue of his background?

This is assuming that anyone sitting in the pews or in leadership in the church even cares about E. Caner's lies and ungodly character. I can't help but think that many if not most would yawn, and say 'who cares?' Personally, I feel that the unsaved in church nowadays outnumber the saved. Otherwise they would not be sitting there laughing at these people, but would be grieved and would leave to find a real church - like some of us have had to do. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." (John 10:1-5)

I just finished Part 1 of Craig Daliesio's sermon. Thanks for the link.

I found his message engaging and refreshing. His soft heart, encouraging words and exhortations to love one another like God loves us in a "Ragamuffin" gospel sort of way.

Then, I went back and read Craig's comment to James White. He wrote:

"Listen jack*** if you are going to quote my facebook entry USE MY NAME and quote me in context! I'm nobody with nothing to lose. I don;t have to worry about what the SBC thinks like the gracious Dr. Caner does. My South Philly upbringing and my righteous indignation coupled with my detest for frauds like you would not hinder me in the LEAST from showing up at your next public appearance and sticking a boot in your a****. You sicken me, you harm the body, and you offend the Spirit of the God you claim to serve but are wholly unfamiliar with, except on dusty pages of endless technical theology that you have likely not ONCE seen in real, God-breathed action. Your veil is thin, my arrogant reformer friend. You should sign all your writings "Mrs. Turpin".

I honestly don't understand the dichotomy of character.

I really want to believe the Craig in the pulpit is the real Craig and the Craig at the computer board is an imposter.

Allowing Caner beyond the pulpit is a scandal. But also allowing Craig the Internet Tough Guy to preach to a congregation of victims is just downright sinful. That pastor who permitted should be bounced out of that church ASAP.

Your post assumes to be anonymous means "coward", and that the Holy Spirit doesn't indwell cowards.

People can be led by the spirit and still be "cowards", if by "coward" you mean someone who is afraid, and fearful. Are you perfect? Are you someone who has no fear at all? Or do you mean that the Holy Spirit can't lead someone who is anonymously posting on a blog.

I have noticed a number of the more aggressive defenders of EC are now being very reasonable and pleasant people--practically all, in fact. The change in behavior is surprising to me. My experience is that people are generally consistent in their behaviors and this is a "violation" of my past observations. Of course I never understood the logic of attacking the messenger so it may be that behavior was the odd one.

Speaking of cowards, it still galls me that Mac Brunson used other's to to tell a long time beloved pastor of FBCJ that his services were no longer needed - dumped him so he could put family members on payroll. Now that is being a COWARD.At least Jerry Vines was man enough to say, "I hire them and I fire them".

Rumor is that this millionaire preacher signed a long term contract. Ugh! Texas should have kept him!

Caner reminds me of the type of guy who gets fat as a pig but expects his wife to stay slim and attractive.

Caner is an entertainer who uses Jesus to get a stage. Those who continue to support this knowing the truth about his lies, I worry about from an eternal perspective. People do not take this stuff seriously enough and think God is up there overlooking quite a bit. He isn't.

As far as Craig D is concerned, if this does not prove to folks how far gone our churches are, nothing will. How folks can set in the pews and not question everything they are paying for, I do not know. Sad ignorant lemmings

I think people would just yawn too. Most people just don't care about much of anything anymore. Ya'll do know that, right? Very very few care. Thats cause Christians have been anesthetized or conditioned to accept anything. The only thing people get upset about now is if someone says, this is right or wrong. Then they get all riled up about you being judgmental. So Ergun Caner spoke here in my city yesterday...whateva. I don't care what happens to the people who don't care what happens to themselves, sorry ya'll. I expended all my energy several years ago trying to get people to see the obvious. And everything i said has proven out to be right on the money, but nobody cared. You get what you deserve. I hope people don't go blaming God when their faulty kingdoms fall around them.

I think you should write a post about the differences in leadership models at churches. Larger churches tend to be pastor / staff led and smaller churches seem to follow a congregational leadership model. Big difference.

Joe Bassett said, "It's interesting how many of you posted as "Anonymous.""

Those are the people who listened to the sermon. It's odd that Ergun's friends keep wanting to say his critics are 'nobodies,' while Ergun's shtick is to say how important the nobodies are. Get on the same page, please, people.

I don't really understand what you're saying. If he converted from radical Islam or not-so-radical Islam-I don't care either way. I just think he should tell the truth and not go around misrepresenting himself to trusting people who don't read blogs on the internet.

Just from listening to the first 10 minutes or so of his "message," it seems to be mainly a testimony. I've heard those all my life. You don't normally assume somebody's making half of it up, but maybe we should be a bit more skeptical.

I'm not at all surprised that you are laughing. Rest assured however, that many of us have your vile post to Dr. White. We also have your exchange with Debbie Kaufman in which you implied she was a whore. We have evidence of your threats, and I for one, will make sure that every church you may travel to with Ergun the Liar Caner knows exactly what you are made of. Just to top it off, I'll send the link where he offended every woman on active duty with his deplorable 'mangina' joke.

Just to clarify - it seems that Caner was preaching at the national meeting of the World Baptist Fellowship, described as an "independent, fundamentalist" missions agency. The WBF held their meeting at the Southpointe Baptist Church here in Jacksonville this week. I've never heard of the WBF before, must not be affiliated with the SBC.

It is shameful that someone would post another's email address on this blog without there knowledge. Wd,You should have that email address removed. It is not right to do that. Have some decency and remove it please.

It is shameful that someone would post another's email address on this blog without there knowledge. Wd,You should have that email address removed. It is not right to do that. Have some decency and remove it please.

C.T: I disagree, it is not at all shameful nor indecent. And no, I will not remove it.

The email address of the head deacon is posted on the Southpointe Baptist website. This was not a private email address, and the domain was the church's domain and not yahoo or gmail. So I think it fair game for the head layman at a church, who has his official church email posted on the Internet on the church website, to have his email shared here so that people can send an email if they choose regarding Ergun Caner.

I would agree if it is a private email of someone, but this is something altogether different.

The motives of the person in sharing the email address here are relevant as well. I did not perceive at all the purpose to be that of harrassment, but to simply express displeasure that Ergun Caner was coming to speak at Southpointe Baptist Church.

If they don't want people on the Internet sending emails to their head deacon, then they should remove his email from their church website.

It is shameful that someone would post another's email address on this blog without there knowledge. Wd,You should have that email address removed. It is not right to do that. Have some decency and remove it please.

C.T.

October 14, 2010 3:11 PM

You are not real bright, are you? They posted it on the church website so it would be public.

How does this speaking stuff work anyway? Why does the pastor have a speaker come in?

Does the speaker get a fee? A "love offering?" Both?

Does the speaker do it for the money and as a way to sell his books?

What does the pastor get out of it?

Thanks for any info. I truly don't know how the system works. Also as a church-goer I would't have realized that speakers get paid to be there. If they do, that kinda shocks me for some reason.

So if it's a "revival," does the speaker get paid a fee by the church?

October 14, 2010 10:56 AM-----------------------------------

It's sad to say, but yes, nearly 100% of the time a church has a guest speaker they get paid. In fact, most speakers have the church sign a contract to pay them their fee plus airfare, lodging, and meals. The more well-known a speaker is, the higher the fee. Musicians are the same.

The church will usually promote the speaker or musician as "free", but that only means they don't take up money at the door. It still costs the church. Sometimes a love offering will be taken, but this usually only offsets the cost of the speaker/musician fee.

As for what the pastor gets out of it, he gets the time off so he doesn't have to prepare a message. The speaker may also be a friend that he can take out to eat. I hate to say it, but there may also may be quid pro quo at work.

I just did a quick look-see at the church in Bear, Delaware. Interesting CV for the Pastor. He's a Liberty University graduate. It may well be that cronyism simply cannot be avoided.

Of course, this Pastor may not have a clue about what has been going on with Ergun Caner (though I think you'd have to be living in a cave with a black/white television, not to know about the shameful behavior of Ergun Caner. But I'm willing to extend some grace to this Pastor, just for the benefit of the doubt.

What really bothers me now, is that being associated with Liberty University is something to be viewed with suspicion. I know that there are many, many fine Christian men and women who have graduated from there. ALL of this could have been avoided if LU would have taken the high road and openly canned Caner, instead of the completely stupid remarks about self-contradictory statements! I charge the English department with gross miscommunication. LOL.

I live around the corner from that Church and they had quite the crowd on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. I know several members there from my neighborhood. I will ask if they attended the service on Wednesday and if they know of the issues with Mr. Caner.

Will do. Not sure if my last comment went though, came up with an error when I selected send. My wife and I were looking to possible move to that church, but we decided to stay at our current church. I know the granddaughter of one of the founders of the church. I don't think the church is SBC, but independent Baptist. They preach a salvation though Jesus message though and it's a nice church, have always been treated well when I attend.

The World Baptist Fellowship is a fellowship of about 1400 independent baptist churches. They operate a Bible college in Arlington, TX called Arlington Baptist College. ABC is the old Bible Baptist Seminary founded by J. Frank Norris. They also have a missions agency that sends out about 80 or so missionary families. I know this because I went two years to ABC and my home church was World Baptist Fellowship.

I'm not at all surprised that you are laughing. Rest assured however, that many of us have your vile post to Dr. White. We also have your exchange with Debbie Kaufman in which you implied she was a whore. We have evidence of your threats, and I for one, will make sure that every church you may travel to with Ergun the Liar Caner knows exactly what you are made of. Just to top it off, I'll send the link where he offended every woman on active duty with his deplorable 'mangina' joke.

The Bible never lies. Your sin will find you out.

October 14, 2010 1:32 PM

Actually Katie I said no such thing.I refered to Debbie as "Dulcinea" the female character in Man of LaMancha who so desperately needed the approval of Don Quixote to lift her out of her miserable mundane life. Much like Debbie desperately needs the fatherly approval of James White, because she will always be a woman and never hold a place of any real import within her chosen denomination. As for my "vile" exchange to the fraudulent Dr. White...it's been posted here. If calling someone a "jackass" and saying that if not for restraint I would stick a boot in his "arse" ...seriously? ARSE? Unless this is 15th century Scotland that term only serves to make people laugh.But feigning fear and insult is what you folks do when you realize how marginalized and void you really are. Nobody really cares about this or about you or about your relentless attacks on Caner. And for the record I DID call Doug and I had a conversation with him. I recorded it myself for posterity sake, but found him a decent guy. I see Wade hasn't posted here since this morning...I BET he's busy doing something else. Might be a LONG SHOT but that's a GAMBLE I'll take. (nyuk nyuk nyuk)

"Caner reminds me of the type of guy who gets fat as a pig but expects his wife to stay slim and attractive.

Caner is an entertainer who uses Jesus to get a stage. Those who continue to support this knowing the truth about his lies, I worry about from an eternal perspective. People do not take this stuff seriously enough and think God is up there overlooking quite a bit. He isn't.

As far as Craig D is concerned, if this does not prove to folks how far gone our churches are, nothing will. How folks can set in the pews and not question everything they are paying for, I do not know.Sad ignorant lemmings"

Duke

Duke...where were you this weekend? I was hoping you'd show so I could run you through the end boards. Poor little rich boy

Yes, I did leave my phone number for Craig to contact me in my email to him and he called and we spoke. We had a good conversation and I did learn things some things from the phone call. I enjoy seeing and hearing things from both side and found our conversation to be polite and enlightening.

Guys, he is an Italian and from Philly so you're getting a 100% transparent interaction here.

As a matter of fact he made me laugh a few times unlike some of the Baptist whom I have had conversations with.

The only thing is, I was not told or alerted that our conversation was being recorded.......Isn't that illegal? Hmmmm

Oh well, maybe I too recorded the conversation for posterity sake.......

Yes, Dr. Dog. Craig must be very familiar with restraining orders. In the last 7 years he's been charged with violation of order of protection (guilty), aggravated assault (found guilty of viol. of order of protection), and harassment (guilty). Those are just what show up in a cursory public records search in Davidson County, Tenn. Such a fine & upstanding citizen Mr. Daliessio is.

I realize it is posted on the church's website and if people want to go to that website to find it then so be it. I do not believe you should be posting on here. It is not tied to your blog. However, I am not surprised that you and others on hear do not care. You pride yourself in making others lives miserable. Looks like your tradition continues. Undoubtedly, you are proud of it. what a truly sad person you are.

Craig - no they are not lying, becuase they don't say restraining order.

The church administrator, went to the police and filed a "trespass warning" with a police officer against me and my wife, for the offeense of "church misconduct". Yes, my wife was accused by the men in the church of "church misconduct". That is not a restraining order. Restraining orders are filed against people who are prone to violence, who have made threats...right, Craig?

Yes, Dr. Dog. Craig must be very familiar with restraining orders. In the last 7 years he's been charged with violation of order of protection (guilty), aggravated assault (found guilty of viol. of order of protection), and harassment (guilty). Those are just what show up in a cursory public records search in Davidson County, Tenn. Such a fine & upstanding citizen Mr. Daliessio is.

Nice try. But I read the entire exchange with you and Debbie. So here is my question... Did you even pass English 101 while at Liberty? In fact Dulcinea describes herself as a "whore". And I've no doubt you knew that.

How can you justify a man using such a degrading word as 'mangina' when speaking to troops heading for battle? I'm a gulf war veteran and I'd have rebuked him on the spot for such a crass display of language. It was an insulting image and even the men in the audience groaned at the extremely bad manners and lack of even minimum decorum. Far worse is that he assumed people in the armed forces think sexual jokes are acceptable. Then Caner went on to describe what these people would find in Muslim culture. Too bad much of what he said, isn't true. He could have been responsible for the death of one of service men or women if they had acted on Caner's advice. He clearly doesn't know that somethings are acceptable in Bahrain (which is where the entire 5th fleet is homeported) but wouldn't be in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or even Kuwait. He lied yet again.

As to Debbie and Dr. White... you once again are showing your blatant ignorance of the facts. Debbie's views on women in the ministry are so far apart from Dr. White's, that they'd have to be on two different planets to coexist on this issue. Debbie doesn't need anyone's fatherly approval. She is a strong and courageous woman. You fail yet again. You simply can't stand the fact that she stood up for Christian integrity, something you obviously don't recognize.

You are an overgrown bully and apparently, if what I have read here is true, any threats made by you towards another person must be taken quite seriously.

I will verify the facts and if they are true, I will make sure that the church you spoke at is fully aware of your history. Don't even start with defamation stuff, because... if it's true, it's true and you'd have no course of action.

Dr. Caner could have ended this months ago, but his ego can't handle the truth about himself. Some of us will make sure that any more of his potential victims know exactly what they are getting. He is a blight on Christianity.

The only thing is, I was not told or alerted that our conversation was being recorded.......Isn't that illegal? Hmmmm___________________________________

It is illegal in Florida. The party being recorded must be advised. Not all states require notice. We know Tennessee allows recordings without notice from The Bellevue mess. Not sure about the other states.

Plus, he may be lying. Hard to prove he actually recorded it and not just popping off on a blog.

Doug said: Guys, he is an Italian and from Philly so you're getting a 100% transparent interaction here. __________________________________

What is it with the stereotypes with Caner and Craig? So he is Italian...what am I supposed to stereotype him as. The Godfather? Jesus died to keep him from being a gangster? So he is from Philly? Must I pre-judge him based on more stereotypes? And Caner - wow, that guy parlayed his dad's religious background into millions. Good thing Jesus died so Butch Caner from Ohio wouldn't strap on a bomb.

These guys live off of stereotypes. Unfortunately, they also fit some other stereotypes as snake oil salesmen and circus entertainers who roll into town, collect the money, and head off to the next town. Sad that it is the sheep without a shepherd who are being taken advantage of.

"Yes, Dr. Dog. Craig must be very familiar with restraining orders. In the last 7 years he's been charged with violation of order of protection (guilty), aggravated assault (found guilty of viol. of order of protection), and harassment (guilty). Those are just what show up in a cursory public records search in Davidson County, Tenn. Such a fine & upstanding citizen Mr. Daliessio is."

Dearest "Anonymous"When a man attacks and harms your (at the time) 5 year old daughter, you do what you need to do. I would do it again and have no apology. You however, don;t even have the nads to sign your real name. Best to you,Craig

I have to give credit where credit is due. Ergun, great job bringing Craig with you. The best way to get the spotlight off your lies and BS, is to bring in a bigger liar and bigger showman so you will look great standing next to Craig. The tough italian mobster, philly hoodlum makes the former jihadist terrorist story seem more believable. You guys are something else. Ha ha ha. How much did you boys pocket this time? On to the next gullible following of the Lord's sheep. Cha Ching!

Caner's no dummy. Many in the Southern Baptist world now know he's a shyster. So, what to do? Move on to the Independent Baptist world where he's virtually unknown and start all over. Same song, second verse...

So I talked to a few of the people I know that attend Southpoint and they were aware of Caner and decided not to attend. They were not real happy about the situation, but said they planned to discuss it with church leaders. I was told one of my other neighbors might have attended, but I have not talked to them directly.

"Other Tom" - I have chosen not to post that information that you have provided about Craig D's past. It is quite shocking, and very revealing, but I think it best to not post the details of that information here for a variety of reasons. I trust that Craig has moved on past that time of his life, and I don't wish to dredge that up and put it here. I have no doubt that if I had some sort of past such as that he would use it against me (he wrongly accused me of having "restraining orders" which is totally false) and put it on his blog, but I won't do that to Craig as he is trying to overcome that past. I hope you understand.

I think two tough guys going around entertaining people with their interesting testimonies is pure entertainment. I think older people can see this for what it is and prefer more maturity in their speakers.

It's their personalities that make it so fascinating. Plus if you're just a regular person from the South, a former Muslim or a tough Philly guy sounds pretty interesting.

while we're all here...Tom you made a statement several times in the past and so have many of your other regular posters here. So I am going to respond. You make the claim that I "attack James White" for his "calling for Ergun Caner to repent". That is not, and never has been why I attack White and his minion. Look at what you did here. You have not accepted Ergun's explanation. I have. That's my right to do so and it's your right not to. But you CROSS THE LINE when you decide that I am WRONG for doing so. You cross an even BIGGER line when you attack churches that you had no earthly idea even existed prior to Ergun speaking in them. None of you attend these churches, and you have no business attacking the pastors for hosting Dr. Caner. That is WRONG. I am 47 years old. I have been a believer for 18 years. I have made my decision about what I believe about Ergun Caner. That is my right. You attack me and anyone else because we don't take YOUR position on this issue and that is WRONG. As for me attacking James White, well I couldn't have picked him out of a police lineup prior to this. He is nobody. He hates that fact but it is true. I am nobody as well. But I don't have anybody out there who I am jealous of.White can't stand Ergun being recognized. Period.James White has a right to believe anything he wants to believe about Caner. I don;t care. He is under attack by people because of his TACTICS and his unadulterated hatred of this man. He HATES Ergun. He hates anyone who does not hate Ergun. Period. THAT is my issue with him...that and his claiming to be a "Dr" when he is not. But that's a minor thing.You guys have every right to hold gripe sessions until the cows come home about your disdain for Ergun. That's your right and I couldn't care less. But you attack...ruthlessly...anyone who doesn't see it your way. That is wrong and it's sin as far as I am concerned. You don't go to these churches, you don't go to TRBC, leave the man alone. Leave the man's friend's alone. leave pastors alone if they choose to have him come and speak. They have likely made the decision that they are satisfied with his explanation / apology and they just want to have a church service.I have known George Tuten since we were kids. He is the founding pastor of that church and has served there with his family for 17 years. He was a lay pastor for 7 years before that. He is a good man and an educated man and he made a prayerful decision to have Caner come and speak. That is his right. You attacked him as a charlatan. That is ungodly. You have never met this man, you don't know his heart, or the kind of vision he has for ministry. George and his family have sacrificed much to have this church. You show that sacrifice such disrespect. You are wrong. You need to stop this ungodly tactic and let this go. It's not your fight.

Craig, you are one sick and pathetic human being, and your ranting has no basis whatsoever in the Word of God.

E. Michael Caner is a LIAR. Not only that, he is on an unrepentant campaign of lying through his teeth in order to further his own interests. And if you don't like the fact that faithful Christians persist in displaying his lies for all to see, then that is YOUR problem, and YOU will have to deal with it. Your opinion means aboslutely nothing to me.

Scripture speaks directly to your respective attitudes towards Caner and James White; "He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord." (Proverbs 17:15).

It is truly pathetic that you have closed your eyes to the truth of... the TRUTH.

In my opinion, Caner-the-liar, came very close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He has told the world many stories about his conversion over the last 9+ years. Isn't his conversion, a work of the Holy Spirit in his heart miraculous enough? Why did he have to embellish (a nice word for lie) his conversion? Jesus paid the price, but evidently that isn't dramatic enough, or lacking the flair Caner needed to tell his story. He purposely minimized the work of God and replaced it with his pathetic lies.

Yes... we do have a right to call for the repentance of a brother and/or sister in Christ when they are living immorally. I believe you'll find that admonition from Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:9... But even if we didn't have that scriptural support, we know that unbelievers are watching and they are quite convinced of Caner's lies. If we do not speak up and police our own, we'll deserve the label hypocrite that we are consistently accused of.

I want people to know about the Christian who aren't liars.

Caner has left a trail of victims behind him.

The FACT that he has aligned himself with you doesn't speak well of his discernment either. I've never in all my years as Christian (more than 40 years), seen a man with such a hateful and mean spirit. You cannot control your anger even on the internet where you are safe behind your keyboard. In the real world you clearly cannot control your actions at all.

Despite all of this, I think you have a spot buried under all that anger that just might be gentle and tender. I pray that you will focus on that part of you, and throw off the sin that so easily entangles.

Coddling Caner is only going to prolong this whole fiasco. Since it's apparent that he is only concerned about his ego and his own celebrity, many of us are going to make it difficult for him to leave more victims, heaped in a pile of trash behind him. We have the facts, the videos, the audios, and the legal documents. There will be no defamation of his character. Just a presentation of the facts. If you care about Ergun Caner, you'd implore him to repent.

As for Dr. White, you could not be more wrong. I don't worship at his church but I have seen it. I would worship there if it was somewhat closer to my home. The building itself is quite humble. He does not have a grand studio either. Dr. White is not concerned about public acclaim as Caner is. He knows something that many, many Christians have lost sight of. We are not to follow men, but Jesus. Caner couldn't hold a candle to the Biblical knowledge that Dr. White has and he knows it. One more thing... Dr. White would NEVER, EVER tell sexual jokes that abuse and demean women. He told this joke to our active duty servicemen and women so he could get a cheap laugh. If you watch that video, you have room full of Marines (who are very honorable people) and it's clear, they were not amused. He can thank his lucky stars I was not in that audience, because I'd have been on my feet in a Philly second to rebuke him. Can you imagine Jesus doing such a thing? If not, why would you think it's acceptable for Caner to do it? Why would a man who calls himself a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ speak in such an offensive way?

Well I tried using a calm demeanor to explain my position. It's the same anonymous voices who just love to hate. It is what it is.Tom...have a nice day.

October 16, 2010 11:19 PM

This is typical Narcissist speak. Craig comes on here nasty and hateful for many comments over the months. Then he tries ONE calm comment and gets mad when it does not work to override all the previous nasty comments.

So, I guess that ONE calm demeanor comment was not from a repentent heart but a TACTIC!

So typical of the typical narcissistit personality. Which of course, follows suit with the restraining orders which is always someone elses fault. Not his.

Craig-There are some that read this blog that sympathize with you concerning the verbal abuse thrown at you. May God bless you and continue to do the work He has placed in your life. Tom and "the other Tom" are never going to listen to you. They love to hate. If you disagree with them, then you become a part of their manic outbursts. Unfortunately they have tapped into a few unstable people on this blog that are foaming at the mouth. These people are a nightmare for a church that is moving forward in the Great Commission. We will be ok. Jesus faced persecution. Who are we to think we are above it? God bless you!

"Feel free to let him know about the 'evidence', put together by Muslims and Hyper Calvinists"

But I can't tell who he was talking to... Anyone else know?

So let me get this straight. Your employer demotes you for telling factual statements that are self contradictory, but then you go around telling people the evidence (which you put in quotation marks) was compiled by terrible people with bad motives. Gotcha.

"Craig-There are some that read this blog that sympathize with you concerning the verbal abuse thrown at you. May God bless you and continue to do the work He has placed in your life. Tom and "the other Tom" are never going to listen to you. They love to hate. If you disagree with them, then you become a part of their manic outbursts....." Yada, Yada, Yada!!

I really couldn't care less whether you agree with my comments. The MOST important thing to me is that my conscience is clear before God. If you find my comments offensive as you rush to defend a proven psychopath, then that is YOUR problem, and YOU will have to answer to that before the Lord.

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About Me

We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"