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August 10, 2009

Committee gives Sixth St convenience store another setback

A proposed convenience store on Sixth Street can't get any traction with city officials because the owners want to sell packages of wine and beer.

The Public Safety and Licensing Committee voted 3-0 Monday night to deny a license for a proposed store at 420 Sixth St. The vote practically dooms the store, which was opposed by several Sixth Street business owners.

James and Caroline Chun had proposed opening a convenience store that would sell basic groceries and household items along with prepackaged beer and wine. The couple had initially applied for a full liquor license, but that was rejected back in April.

Alan Bagg, the owner of Corporate Images at 417 Sixth St., told the committee during a public hearing that the convenience store would disrupt a "fragile area."

"A bad fit is a bad business for everyone else," Bagg said.

Fritz Cape, the owner of 302 and 304 Sixth St., said there was already a large concentration of liquor licenses on the street.

"It's not in keeping with the vision of a revitalized Sixth Street," said Cape, whose wife, former Alderwoman Cherri Cape, also spoke against the proposal. Cherri is also the owner of Moxie Child at 304 Sixth St.

Jeff Shawhan, the owner of The Elements Gallery at 409 Sixth St., wondered why the committee was considering a proposal it had already rejected. "What's changed in those few months?" he asked.

Several people spoke in favor of the store. A petition with 61 names supporting the business was submitted and members of the Racine LiberTEA party attended the hearing to speak in favor of the proposal.

Elizabeth Jones, who owns the building at 612 6th St., said the convenience store was a good fit for the area, even if it sold alcohol.

"I don't think we should be discouraging business," she said.

Blogger and Downtown business owner Dennis Navratil argued the city doesn't have problems with businesses that sell packaged alcohol, and pointed out businesses like Uncorkt and the former Braun's and Historic Century Market never have had a problem.

Navratil also pointed out Downtown has at least 20 vacant buildings, which would seem the indicate the need to attract new businesses. If Downtown bars are creating problems, he said, take away their licenses, don't punish a convenience store that's never opened.

Kate Remington, who owns a building at 613 Sixth St., said the convenience store would be a nice addition for Sixth Street residents. "We don't have a grocery store. We get hungry," Remington said.

But ultimately the committee members were unswayed by arguments for the store, and its chances are now slim of getting the needed two-thirds majority support from the City Council. With Aldermen Aron Wisneski, Jim Kaplan and Terry McCarthy voting against the license, one woud have to switch their vote and the rest of the City Council would need to support the Chun's for them to receive a license. That's unlikely because Alderman Jeff Coe, whose district includes Sixth Street, spoke against the proposal.

The two-thirds majority vote is required because the City Council recently passed an ordinance limiting the number of "Class A" liquor licenses in the city. Two-thirds of the City Council would need to make an exception to the freshly enacted ordinance to allow the Chuns to sell beer and wine.

Opposition to the convenience store is a blow for local businessman Michael Choi, who has opened three successful restaurants in the Sixth Street area (Shogun, Asiana and Olde Madrid). He spoke to the committee and pointed out that it makes no sense for him to open a business that would harm is surrounding restaurants. He also said the convenience store would be a better fit for Sixth Street than a vacant storefront.

But the aldermen, set in their belief that alcohol will harm Sixth Street, were unconvinced.

Kaplan actually said the site at 420 Sixth St. was a "perfect place" for a convenience store. But he said selling alcohol in the store was a deal breaker. McCarthy and Wisneski made similar comments and suggested the Chuns open without selling alcohol.

But the Chuns had earlier shut down that idea, estimating alcohol sales would make up 25 percent of their business.

Ironically, shortly before the committee rejected the Chuns' license they paved the way for Keith Fair to reopen the Tango Bar on Sixth Street. Fair is planning to reopen the bar by Labor Day.

There were several commentators and the vast majority were in favor of the Chun's goal of opening. Including myself. I have to respectfully disagree with some of my fellow DT merchants. and agree with a few others. the fact is while 6th St has had many challenges over the past several years the one problem they haven't had is over-crowding. i have supported many of the businesses on the 6th street with my own earnings and profits. as well many have supported mine.

I was accused of an ELEMENTal attack for not being a supporter and I was advised by a 6th St. Business owners I should stay out of the issue as I "had NO BUSINESS" voicing my concerns about 6th St. and I should instead shut-up and focus on Main St!!

I am not making this up.. i couldn't believe the level of vitriol that was exploded and how this person had never seen me on 6th st!!! Now for 2 years I have actively supported businesses on his block and blogged, and urged other people/ and my own customers to support "it's" block while they were under-going mass-reconstruction. I have been a familiar face at H&W's, Asiana, Old Madrid, 6th St theater, McAulliffes on the SQ. Millers flowers, Shillings and even Saunders paint's not to mention numerous others on the street. It is true I haven't purchased anything from the "assailants" shop...but assailants vitriolic lambasting against the several dozen of us who spoke in favor of the Chun's was out of order. I use assailant to indicate the level of harassment and intimidation said person lodged at the dozen or so of us who have made it a point to get to know the Chun's and support them in their investment in our community! Said assailant knows who i am, and I invite "IT" to come speak to me in person, just do me a favor and wear your logic hat when u come..I don't do "hope and Change" or" touchy feely" real well. A Logical discussion doesn't begin with "I feel...."

Said person's, threats of opening a Strip club or a Porno shoppe next to my business, were heard by many of us..and I replied that if "it" was opening a legitimate business I'd support it's Liberty to do so. I can choose to support it or not with my earnings and profits, it will succeed or fail based on revenue, just like the Chun's I will in fairness offer that above referenced "objector" was opposed to any additional Liquor licenses in the Downtown area..yet "objector" didn't stay to involve itself in the discussion about the 3 new Liquor licenses proposed for "objectors" block!!!

I am sorry that the 6th st. merchants and the Alderman frankly are being emotional, rather than logical, and I hope they will reconsider. The problems they are having are not from the CHUN's business;I know that because the Chun's haven't opened yet. SOME merchants and residents have problems with existing Pubs and taverns....the Chun's should not be punished for others irresponsibility! Many of the downtown residents on 6th St and nearby are enthusiastically supportive..including me, a long time resident and recent merchant.

Also Alderman Coe.. I have to say I'm disappointed, as it was your suggestion to have the Chun's re-apply for a Beer only license. But like many issues, we are not always on the same side.. but tonight Mr. Fair represented the citizens and the fellow businesses better. But I'll still support you when your right..but you were wrong tonight sir.

Time after time I heard the stories of trash panhandlers and drunks as reasons not to want the Chun's to have a beer license. Since it is an issue I was shocked to find out that to the best of my understanding that NONE of them have yet to file a complaint about this with the City. Why? If my store was next to a bar that gave me the trouble I heard about I would. Thinking most would. Is it because its easier to stop something then control it after the fact? Because this group of folks believe that bars make a better fit then the Chun's ? And why might that be? Because Art and Bars go together? Because the Chun's are Korean? I was very impressed with Keith Fair's speech on the subject, and I thanked him last night and do so again now. Thinking I need to look into what other groups the anti Chun's group are members of. My guess is the DRC that would in my mind explain many things. IMHO First Friday's with a beer "tent" and other events driven by drinking creates a bunch of drunks but that's OK?

This will make a great podcast on Storm Racine and perhaps a program to put on CAR 25. "Downtown Racine a great place to be if your white and rich"

I am very troubled that this committee approved after hearing the stories about drunks etc any more bars in such a "Fragile" area

A crony with a substance abuse problem who still has a $8,500 judgment against him from his last landlord gets to open a bar, but no beer license for hard working outsiders. What dirty little vermin run this town.

Too harsh I think but perhaps a question should be asked did John's Dock need to serve booze? If they get one to be successful why not the Chin's? Again if drunks are an issue downtown do we need any more places for folks to go drinking?

If you think Otha K. Fair is a crony of anyone on the city council, you have not been paying attention. Keith Fair applied to be the agent for an existing Class B license for an existing tavern. That is a much different thing than asking for a new license.

John's Dock is also an existing licensed establishment (Sandpiper's) and holds a Class B license.

I attended the meeting and I agree that some were being emotional, but it was not the committee members. While your TEA group may not like the fact that the state regulates alcohol and delegates licensing decisions to the local government, that is the way it is. In Racine, the city council is tasked with granting alcohol licenses.

The TEA group may think that licenses should be easy to get and easy to take away if the licensee causes problems, but that is not the way it is.

A license, once granted, is a property right and revocation requires a substantial and costly amount of due process. There is also the cost to the people from the damage caused as a licensee gets to the point where their license can be revoked. It is because of this that the city, a few years ago, instituted new rules for granting licenses that require business plans and a more thorough review process.

The TEA group may not like that we have a quota for Class A licenses. One of your members pointed out that Kenosha is thriving and, in her opinion, Racine is not because of things like this. We modeled our class A quota on Kenosha's ordinance, that they have had in place for some time. Perhaps keeping alcohol outlets to a reasonable level has been one factor helping Kenosha to do so well? I believe that Mr. Brown lamented the possibility of a bar or restaurant wanting to open and no licenses being available. That is a very real possibility, as the state legislature instituted a quota for Class B licenses some time ago and we are very close to the limit.

Let me get back to the claim that the Aldermen acted emotionally. The Class A quota in Racine is the law. There is a quota of 60 licenses and we are already at 66. The quota was deliberately set lower than the current number in the hopes that we would reach the lower number over time. The quota was passed for a reason - clearly outlined in the ordinance. The ordinance did allow for reasonable exceptions to the quota. For example, if grocer wanted to come in, buy a vacant lot, construct a large new store, and open up shop, that would have a greater economic impact that merely the addition of another licensed alcohol outlet.

The ordinance requires that the council find that the proposed license would have a greater economic impact. None of the arguments I heard talked about anything more that a convenience store. All of the arguments, pro and con, addressed themselves to the pros and cons of a beer license there. The issue last night was not just the license, it was the quota.

Did the proposed license merit an exception to the quota? That is the question before the Aldermen. It was one I thought the addressed in a reasonable, rather than emotional manner. The committee did not say no to a convenience store. They did say that a beer license for a convenience store did not merit an exception to the quota.

Should these 6th Street stores which are hanging by a thread for survival be the determing factor in this decision. You can be sure a convenience store has a much better chance of survival than any of the other operations on 6th St.

So Ald. Greg, Racine has what a 17.9 percent unemplyoment rate? TWICE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE? For anyone to suggest that Racine doesn't need an employer like this is ludicris. I understand your 60 quoata MAKE A CHANGE! I would like to open a gentlemens club in downtown Racine. I will employ 40 employess upon opening. Now, what say the alderman and mayor? My point is we need any and all employers at this point!

No groceries. No clean laundry. Nothing but pretense and trendy visions during a time many locals are struggling to just keep going. Can't express one's opinion. Don't want to try any longer. Last night was really ugly. Worse control/manipulation I've seen in 10 years. This is positively Racine!

The Capes have made their money, so it's OK for them to shoot down other ideas. Also Fair is like a hemorrhoid that wont go away, and the council wont apply the prep-H. Funny how Greg wants to rip on the TEA's now when he coveted their votes in the mayor's race. The Chuns need to remember that there are other communities in Racine County that would welcome a new business run by proven success's. Not all boards are as closed minded and narrow. Funny how Greg and the boys are so concerned with C-stores selling beer in downtown, but not on Memorial Drive, or Douglas Ave, or Washington Ave or Racine Street

It's called a business and it employs people and attracts customers and pays taxes. Of course, the endeavors of others is "merely" something to pass judgment on while backslapping through the application of a crony. Pardon me, but Mr. Fair has failed miserably at everything he has done. His underhanded methods are an embarrassment to this city. He hasn't paid a dime to his former landlord. But that's OK, right? It's not WHAT you know, but WHO you know.

As I sat there and watched the faces of the council members while those opposing the store spoke I could see the occasional head knod or slight grin. As I watched while those who supported the store spoke the council members sat there stone-faced and motionless. I KNEW half way through the meeting that this project was doomed. The council's mind was made up before the meeting even started.

The business people of 6th Street complained of panhandlers, brown-bag drunks, broken bottles and trash in the area. These are all pre-existing conditions of which the Chun's have not been a party to. These are the problems caused by the bars along 6th Street and the side streets. The Chun's and Mr. Choi should not be punished for something of which they have had no part. In order to address the concerns of the council and business owner's of 6th Street, I heard Mr. Harding tell the council that the Chun's had agreed not to sell hard liquor and not to sell single serving cans or bottles of beer and wine. This sounds very responsible and accomodating to me on the Chun's behalf. Why couldn't the council meet them half way?

Mr. Harding also said that the question seemed to be "what's more important, opening a needed service like a food store downtown for the local residences, or not exceeding the beer/wine license quota?" He was absolutely correct. Weighing a package beer and wine license against the needs of those who live downtown, I would think the residence's needs would have taken precedence. But once again these aldermen showed what they think of those who live downtown. They won't let a needed service open but they would vote to turn 6th Street into a slum by turning the buildings into low-income housing and leaving Mr. Choi's storefront vacant.

Greg Helding said, "A license, once granted, is a property right and revocation requires a substantial and costly amount of due process." Maybe that needs to be changed. Why is it a "property right"? It's a simple license, a piece of printed paper. Change the laws so that if a business becomes a problem the license can be suspended or revolked based on the number of citations written to it by the police. My driver's license isn't a "property right" and can be pulled for inappropriate behavior with a minimum of "due process."

Then, outside the council chamber, I watched in shock as Jeff Shawhan, the owner of The Elements Gallery at 409 Sixth St., launched a tirade of venom and anger at those who supported the Chun's. He actually had the audacity to tell people that because they don't live or own a business on 6th Street that they had no business voicing their opinions on the matter and telling Ken Brown, owner of Eye-Openerz on Main Street, to keep his nose out of 6th Street and concern himself with Main Street only. Well, Jeff, whether you like it or not, this town belongs to ALL of the citizens of Racine and we have the RIGHT to support those who want to invest here. Jeff Shawhan went on to suggest that he might open a porno shop or sex club next to Ken Brown's business. What a stupid contrast! How can you compare low-life, scum-sucking businesses like those to a convenience store. Jeff Shawhan made a complete ass of himself and showed us where his mind is at. I for one am going to boycott his store because of this small minded, in-the-gutter thinking and attitude. I hope those who agree with me do the same.

I'm going to volunteer to make buys for the Metro Drug Unit at the Tango Bar. Addicts know addicts. They approach me on the street looking to score or sell. Our "leaders" govern in an incestuous vacuum. They have no idea of what is going on - or they're part of it. This is the same bunch that blithely championed a pedophile for years.

"Greg Helding said, "A license, once granted, is a property right and revocation requires a substantial and costly amount of due process." Maybe that needs to be changed. Why is it a "property right"? It's a simple license, a piece of printed paper. Change the laws so that if a business becomes a problem the license can be suspended or revolked based on the number of citations written to it by the police. My driver's license isn't a "property right" and can be pulled for inappropriate behavior with a minimum of "due process.""

No, it is not just a simple license. The law in Wisconsin says that it is property and people cannot be deprived of property without due process of law. The law (statutes, administrative rules, case law, etc.) determines what is property and what is not and how much "process" is "due" a person before that property can be taken away. In Wisconsin, the license is considered property and the amount of process due a licensee is a quasi-judicial hearing in front of the licensing body (in our case, the Public Safety and Licensing Committee) in which testimony is given, evidence is presented, and the licensee can cross examine witnesses and be represented by an attorney.

You suggest that maybe this needs to be changed. Maybe it does, but it will not be unless the State Legislature re-writes the law or the State Supreme Court makes an interested series of decisions. Until then, we operate under the parameters of the current law and the current system.

That was the point I was making about some of the commenters. They may wish the system was otherwise - but it is not.

"The business people of 6th Street complained of panhandlers, brown-bag drunks, broken bottles and trash in the area. ... These are the problems caused by the bars along 6th Street and the side streets."

I dunno...I have lived in several different downtowns, and I have never seen the 'panhandlers' and 'brown-bag drunks' in the bars dropping $3 for a domestic longneck. Nope, they get their alcohol from a C-Store.

You are right that problems already exist and they are not the fault of the Chun's. But seriously ask yourself, if the store where to open selling beer how would it effect the problems on 6th street? It is pretty reasonable to worry that it would only make things worse.

I see. Because some alcohol licenses become problems, the Chuns' alcohol license should not be granted. Makes sense to me.

I've also noticed that some retail stores "invite" shoplifters, which causes all sorts of problems for our LEOs and courts. Better shut them down, too.

Why is there an assumption that a license for the Chuns would be troublesome?

The quotas and rules for license disbursement are made by the City Council, not the state. In fact, the city set the quota in direct response to the Chun's last license request. These supposedly inviolable laws are of the council's own making.

However, we "emotional" citizens of Racine do not know what we are doing and better let those who championed a pedophile as our savior for 6 years continue to make our decisions for us. Just because a smug clique of cronies diddles with your life and livelihood is no reason to get emotional, you know.

The Chongs operate a convenience store in the 800 block of south Main that sells beer, liquor, and has gambling machines on premises. The store and the Chongs are considered an asset to the community. Why the assumption that a convenience store run by the Chuns wouldn't be?

Greg, you nailed it when you said, "...we operate under the parameters of the current law and the current system." The current system is what needs to be changed. This is just another representation of over-regulation that is keeping businesses from coming to Racine. I'll bet my bottom dollar that if this had been a major supermarket chain wanting to open here and sell, not only beer and wine but also, hard liquor, they would have gotten the license with no trouble at all. This is a pure case of discrimination; not by race necessarily, but by dollars. The stonefaced morons that sat there last night and the rest of this leftist city council have got to go!

"The Chongs operate a convenience store in the 800 block of south Main that sells beer, liquor, and has gambling machines on premises. The store and the Chongs are considered an asset to the community. Why the assumption that a convenience store run by the Chuns wouldn't be?"

It seems unlikely that the committee would have approved the anyone opening a C-store selling beer on 6th, regardless if their name is Chun, Chong, or Smith.

Greg you seem to continue I read your comments and now I would like to add mine. First, I would like to say that I am not or would I ever want to be in your crony form of government because it is down right illegal. You hid behind the skirt tails of Gary Becker and now you are right there doing your number with Mayor Dickert. You use your imagination!! I would appreciate if if you want to speak to me you can give me a call. I think you are a coward that attempts to hide behind unproven facts. If you are so genuine in your interest for legality, release the emails and tell the people what your involvement was with Gary Becker. Tell the people about the violation of the open meeting law!! I believe that there is enough that you can share about yourself without putting your mouth on me. I do not appreciate it and I will be more that happy to air this disagreement and this blog or any you want to go on. Do I want to join your club??? NO!!!

Seriously, what are you talking about? Air what disagreement? I mentioned you because people were alleging you received a "yes" vote out of committee because of cronyism, favoritism, or some other unethical reason.

I spent three sentences out of 9 paragraphs explaining that this was not the case and that granting a change of agent for an existing establishment is a different situation than granting an entirely new license.

HOW ABOUT THE CITY COUNCIL CHANGE THEIR NAME TO "THE MAFIA" AND THE ALDERMEN BE KNOWN AS GODFATHERS. ISN'T THAT WHAT THEY ARE? THEY DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN THEMSELVES TO ANYBODY AND IF THEY LIKE YOU YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. WE WILL CALL CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS "PROTECTION MONEY". I THINK THAT A FEW "GODFATHERS" CAN HOLD COURT IN WILSON'S COFFEE SO US COMMON PEASANTS CAN COME KISS THEIR RINGS AND HAND THEM ENVELOPES. WHAT A BUNCH LOW CLASS LOSERS WE HAVE ELECTED TO REPRESENT US. FAT PIGS AND WEASELS IS WHAT THEY ARE.

Interesting blog. Too bad there is still an empty building downtown. Where is there a C-store that does not sell beer? How profitable is it? Seems to me that a citizen wants to open a business and government says no. Must be bad karma for that building. First the Water Dept wants $100K for a mythical reason, and now a C-store cannot get a beer license. What's next?

Funny how the aldermen go drinking at nasty society corrupting "bars" after every meeting or is that where they have their "real" meetings. I am sure they drink kiddy cocktails when they're out. They must believe in the "Do as I say, not as I do" rule. I like the "Mafia" thing in earlier post, it's so true about those lip flapping idiots we call politicians in Racine.

Seems like "devine right" has fallen upon the City Council members. They all believe they are chosen by god almighty to create and enforce rules that they believe to be appropriate to all situations. Vote them out now!

No business on sixth street was against the c-store. They were opposed to the liqour license. Here is a little history lesson on the matter. We had a meeting this March with Mr. Chun (set up by Jeff Coe) to discuss the proposal his proposal for a "liqour store". At that point it was being called Lakeside Liqour. Mr Chun also stated he had very minimal experience selling alcohol. He also had a no true busines plan and called it Lakeside Liqour. Out of 20 or so people at the meeting three were in favor of the liqour store because of the food/dry goods aspect. The rest opposed it because of the concerns stated at various city meetings.

As for the TEAs, I think it is great to have a group of individuals involved in watching out for our civil liberties. I commend them for their stances on issues that have a far greater effect on us than we might realize. What I have a problem with is the "stumping" on this issue. They appear to be confusing the issue of freedom and the law. Alcohol is a government regulated commerce through licensing because of it potential volitility and danger to its citizens and those effected by it directly and indirectly. The issue at hand on the August 9th meeting was about an acohol license, not a freedom to open a business. If the Chuns choose to sell an item that is regulated by national, state and local laws, than that is the legal process they must follow. The committee did not vote down the concept of a c-store but rather the acohol license for the proposed establishment. The TEAs would be better served to to take the issue with the acohol licensing and not a civil liberty issue of the government contolling who can open a business. Again this was truely not an issue of civil liberties because, Im pretty sure the Chuns could open a C-Store any time the wish. If the TEAs truely unstood definition of liberty: it grants permission to go freely with in "specified limits". Licenses and laws are part those "specified limits" that "WE" set to protect others liberties!

As for my comment of a strip club/porn shop. It was a hypothetical rebut to those TEAs who have businesses in downtown and who feel any legal business has the right to open anywhere. I made the comment because I really feel their opinions would change about the issue if it were in their own back yards. While a strip club would be a legal business, many of those would probably oppose it merley because of it lack of fit in their neighborhood. Why? Because of the people whom frequent them, "items" left behind or the stigma that accompanies these establishmnets? Please look through the eyes of these Sixth Street entities.

I would like to invite those of you down to 409 Sixth Street on a Fridy or Saturday Night around 1am. To see first hand the loud drunken rukus that occurs while you are sleeping snug in your beds. Now, think about the "liberties" of those individuals whom live in the area and have to get up to work the next morning but, have to sleep through that. The problem is an acohol issue. Enough has to be enough. While the horse is out of the barn already, we do not need to let the rest of them out. No more alcohol licenses please!

This will probably be my one and only blog but, you would think if you are reponding in a blog, you should at least use your name or real name and not hide behind the "gutless" and "weak" ANONYMOUS or downtown brownie. So, DTB please do not confuse me with any political party whom your own cannot stand losing to. I will be sure to stop by to see you Dimples. Thats Dimples correct? Im also hoping for some free publicity as well. So, fuel up the plane, Id love to see my name on a banner, but this time put the authors name on it. I hate to break this to you, but Im pretty sure there are alot more people whom could careless about you political agenda so, I know my business will just be fine!

One last point. If you do not like the way the system works and you think you have a better one quit the worthless blogging - get your point out - get votes - win an election - and change it! That simple.

"I would like to invite those of you down to 409 Sixth Street on a Fridy or Saturday Night around 1am. To see first hand the loud drunken rukus that occurs while you are sleeping snug in your beds."

Jeff are you call the police for this? Are you trying to get the bars aidding these acts lic revoked, or do you find it easier to complain about a store that has not opened yet? Have you compaind about the drunks at First Friday's the beer tent the DRC has?

"HOW ABOUT THE CITY COUNCIL CHANGE THEIR NAME TO "THE MAFIA" AND THE ALDERMEN BE KNOWN AS GODFATHERS."

The Mafia? Wow, they must be a pretty incompetent mob, because I don't see any of them getting rich from being on the City Council.

Hell, while I have my complaints with some of them, they are probably better than most the people posting here deserve. I know I would not give so much time for so little money for the likes of most of you.

I get it. The bars on 6th Street currently cause problems, so the Chuns, who don't want to open a bar, must be punished. But an existing bar must be allowed to reopen with a deadbeat who got kicked off of a police force running it.

Jeff Shawhan is an idiot. Pick up a phone, call the police everytime the drunks (from the BARS!) start kicking up a ruckus. Encourage your neighbors to do the same.

You politicized this whole thing at the meeting when you told the city council that LiberTEA Racine was using this as a political maneuver (to paraphrase). All LiberTEA Racine was trying to do was support the Chun's right (their liberty) to open a C-store selling a completely legal product. The Chun's agreed NOT to sell liquor at all, and not to sell individual serving bottles of wine or individual bottles or cans of beer.

I'm with the previous poster who is advocating boycotting your business. I'll not step foot in there again.

"All LiberTEA Racine was trying to do was support the Chun's right (their liberty) to open a C-store selling a completely legal product."

Right? Alchohol is a legal product, but a regulated one. No one has the right to sell Alcohol, and the courts have routinely backed this view.

If LiberTEA Racine is going to push this as a right, then they are going to turn the Tea Bag movement into a total farce. You all will come off as silly as the various leftist groups that seem to invent rights out of thin air.

Jeff your opposition is going to cost you more grief than a C-store run by a reliable business man. If I were you, I'd keep my mouth shut or there won't be many ceramic pots going out your door. It's probably good you have a day job because your position may cause another vacancy on 6th St.

The gallery is called ELEMENTS and it is at 409 Sixth Street. Come on those of you using ANONYMOUS, lets man up!

An idiot is a person who spouts out with out facts and the facts are:

Fact 1

THe Racine PD releases their response calls weekly. They are public rcord and show the amount of responses and man hours needed to address issues on Sixth Street during those nights. There are your tax dollars at work you so much complain about rising.

Fact 2:

A young person has already lost their life on Sixth Street outside of a bar and there was a shooting in the area earlier this year.

Fact 3

I have made two calls this month for public intoxication, one individual so drunk saw it fit to lay down in the middle of sixth street. I have also talked with RPD on site during those nights.

As for the personal attacks on me, I dont mind because I consider the source. I know some Sixth St businesses whom are not vocal to avoid being called racist or anti competitive, but I will not let a vocal minority drown out the facts. The facts remain the facts, to many liqour licenses on Sixth Street aready. Please try to avoid personal attacks on ours sucesses.

I appreciate the people whom patronise my business and Im not the least bit worried abouta boycott. I make a beautiful product that demand far outweighs my ability to make it so, Im not the least bit worried about the few bloggers whom need to get a life, find a hobby or move on. Life is to short for worthless chatter. Please create something that positive effect on others lives you may find it "liberating"

Done with blogging butmore than welcome to come on down for a face to face!

Jeff - I'm sure there would be all kinds of people carry out a 6 packs of beer sitting in front of your store getting drunk and then laying in the street. You are a goofball. How many police calls have there been for the C-store on South Main that I believe Mr. Chun owns? Oh yea, I know they have a parking problem because there are always drunks laying in the parking lot. I like the arts but I don't like the likes of you - and your business is going to be hurt more than you know. The best form of marketing is word of mouth - in this case it will kill you. It's more than a few bloggers out here.

You know the politicians involved in this fiasco count on these things drying up and blowing away. They step in it time and time again, and then wipe their feet on Racine's taxpayers. Six years they trailed behind a pervert like little sheep, all vying to be his favorite. They consider the people of Racine to be morons who will always play their petty games.

Right, those gas pumps and 24 hour service that the Chuns wanted would draw all sorts of problems.

Regarding the comment about the young woman who was shot on 6th Street: welcome to Racine. I live 4 blocks from you and listen to gunfire almost every night. There are no bars or convenience stores nearby. You didn't believe all that BS about artists, did you? Try leaving Elitist Racine (downtown) and take a walk in Real Racine (just to your south) some night - if you dare.

To my mis-informed 6th St art merchant. Let's clear a few things up: I'm not Dimple or Dimples. I am a downtown merchant, but my business and my citizen advocacy are not interlocked. Thus the name "Downtown Brown", which is the name I have chosen for things related to LiberTEA Racine, and my advocacy. Wanna read more? libertearacine.blogspot.com When I wish to post as my business I use the name of my business. My business is a business..it doesn't have a point of view. I will afford the same distinction to your business. Unless you choose to make your business political which is your choice.Second: Neither my business, nor any other downtown merchant to my knowledge had anything to do with the banners on the 4th. I know several of those who did support it including some members of LiberTEA Racine..but it was not a LiberTEA position because it was a partisan issue. LiberTEA Racine is NOT a Partisan group but an ISSUE oriented group. Our group is diverse and has Left, Right, Center, Greens, Libertarians, etc. Their are no dues, nor is there any monies transacted or donated to any other group. It is people who may be involved in many other groups and organizations, but we focus on individual liberty's in the City and County of Racine. WE are not a group of Liquor license advocates.The first issue LiberTEA moved on was over the Southside historic district..the public pressure was enough to block that..not all of it was LiberTEA Racine, but we were proud of the result.Our group is only a few months since it's conception..we planned to do more that just Blog and Bitch, but actually to act. You stated we should get out and win some elections, well ours is an ideology, not a Party, so we "win" at the city, village and county level, by dealing with issues.

Your post meeting response of an attack on some of us, (and many others, not in our group), was out of order sir. Your claim that we have "NO RIGHT!", and we should mind our own business, and just focus on Main St. and let you guy decide what happens on 6th st. Where to begin....

The Lakeside Pantry was suggesting daytime hours, extending to 8 or 9 p.m. (something like that in the summer months). Packaged beer sales cannot be transacted after 9 p.m. The nighttime mardi gras atmosphere in downtown seems to be at its most problematic at bar closing times....early morning and relates to lots of drinking in bars. One of the most discouraging things at this Monday night meeting was the lack of interest by this committee in the two petitions they have received from people who bothered to ask residents and business owners, building owners, etc. if they were interested in a convenience store on the street. These two petitions are far deeper than the few anti Lakeside Pantry people. Don't we count? Don't we pay taxes? Aren't many of us part of the business community? Where is the mayor on this issue? And where was DRC? Missing in action (unless that is DRC speaking through Jeff Shawhan). Another puzzle to me is why the licensing committee kept telling those of us who live here to go to Total 24 if we want groceries. Wow!

Now I can respond to the following as a member of LiberTEA Racine, and as downtown resident, and as a downtown merchant, and a long time resident of Racine.First and foremost I do NOT recommend boycotting any business over a political point of view. If a local business person left, right or center opens a business with products you like, and deals fairly with you..then support them..especially local business people, these are the folks INVESTING in your community. Sir you yelled at me because you said you never have seen me on 6th St....Well, Dude, I don't know how you missed me..LOL. I actually spend more time in the clubs, pubs and restaurants on 6th St. than I do on Main St. (this might cause me some flack from Main st.! LOL). I have been on 6th st at 1:00 am, more than once...LOL. But I have never barfed, pissed or fallen asleep on 6th St. I try to be responsible, not everyone is. Furthermore Sir, I have lived within 4 blocks of your store for 15 plus years, and have been supporting DT since before it was fashionable. I also originally planned to open my business on 6th, because it was "art focused", unfortunately Becker's Folly (a.k.a. Uptown Arts District), diluted and destroyed that concept, and we will all watch for the next 5+ years as that goes nowhere, but I digress.So I make the above points to say that even if i didn't have an "advocacy" reason for 6th Sts. success, I have plenty of personal reasons to see it succeed. It will be good for my Business, My personal life, and my recreational options.Additionally, the "Liberty" that was impacted here: The State does give the City the power to regulate Liquor, and just recently the City created a Class "A" cap of 60 licenses....but the Council gave itself the "power" to violate it's own cap. So it's not really a "Cap", per se, but rather an arbitrary number or "goal". Also in your remarks before the Committee you asked what had changed in the past few months regarding this application..knowing full well That Mr. Chun changed his business plan to Pkgd. Beer only and a Pantry, and reading your historical post...you mentioned the original goal was for a Lakeside Liquor...Mr. Chun bent over backwards, to accommodate the 6th St. merchants, and yet you still fought him to the core. You have the right to do so, I have every right to support him! If Mr. Chun had been known to have a criminal record, or no business experience, or some other reason, we may not have supported his "Liberty", But when a business person comes to our community (with his own cash in hand!), we should get as much Government out of the way, so he or she can help build our city for the future, and prosper along the way. Finally Sir. If part of the problem on 6th St. is broken Bottles perhaps you would support an ordinance which prohibits anyone from selling any glass, or pottery items on 6th St.??? Didn't think so.

I would also point out in my first posting on this topic both here and on the JT site. I invited Mr Art Guy..to come and feel free to discuss his issues with me, just don't forget to pack your "Logic" case.

Wow, Downtown Dimples is a pretty harsh dude. I think that he and Jody Harding are trying to usurp the DRC so they can control the downtown area. They disguise this goal by calling themselves freedom fighters, luring in innocent people to act on their behalf.

Dear Anon 1:10 Anonymous said... "Wow, Downtown Dimples is a pretty harsh dude. I think that he and Jody Harding are trying to usurp the DRC so they can control the downtown area. They disguise this goal by calling themselves freedom fighters, luring in innocent people to act on their behalf. All Dimples on Main Street wants is total control....not liberty. 8/12/2009 1:10 PM"

Evidently you missed every point I made, because EVERYTHING in the above post is incorrect! Most especially I am not DIMPLES!! LOL.

Dear 8/12/2009 9:34 AM, The "bright idea" to fill Sixth Street with elitist art galleries and other establishments which we "commoners" would never visit came from the source of most nonsense in our toadish town: the Waxtrash Corporate Crime Family. Decades ago, Frank Lloyd Wright and his thoroughly-evil third wife taught a Waxie I'll call "Hip" that beauty was better than duty and aesthetics trumped ethics. Since then, the heirs of that misguided plutocrat have inflicted their pulchritude police on the peasantry. Because the Waxies and their lackeys want a pretty city, poor, working class and lower-middle class people are tormented by building inspectors and weed commissioners. The not-so-subtle Waxtrash agenda is to drive lower-income people out of certain areas and, eventually, the entire municipality. Right now, Sixth Street is a Waxie priority,so I predict that any business not geared exclusively to Ivy League yuppies and their billionaire bosses will get the heave-ho treatment.

Gary Becker is not at Brown's Lake. That post was by those Becker backers that want to practice deception again. GARY and his brother purchased a residence on ARLINGTON STREET on the south side of Racine. Rumor has it that they are drinking beer like it is a fraternity house. As for the Jeff Coe look a like, NOT! Jeff Coe is seen drinking over at the house with Becker tossing beers back and forth and having a good time. The good people of the 10th District don't have any thing to worry about " innocent until proven guilty". It is amazing to me how the good people of this community is so willing to put our young people in harms way. Gary Becker, Jeff Coe, and who ever else is at the party smells of big trouble and great concerns. When is some one going to wake up and stand up. It would be nice for a stand up City Council Person, maybe the newly appointed Alderperson that is tapped as fresh vision!!!?????

To DowntownBrown, Anon 1:10 is a complete idiot. Those of us who get our facts straight before we say anything know that you don't own Dimples. That business belongs to Denis Navratil and his wife.

Tim the Shrubber appears to be one of the left wing, liberal, socialist types (or at least a wannabe "in crowd" type with the city council) to suggest that an artificial cap imposed by the city council somehow miraculously eliminates a businesses right to sell a perfectly legal product, regulated or not. This again also demonstrates the city council's will to overregulate to the point of driving businesses out of Racine and discouraging outsiders from opening businesses here.

Because the Chun's would not be selling hard liquor, had agreed not to sell single serving cans or bottles of beer and wine, and because there would be no alcohol sales after 9:00PM, denying them a Class A license was nothing more than small minded, biggotted 6th St. elitists and the city council showing contempt for anyone not in their clique. Especially Jeff Shawhan, whom I will also boycott and spread the word of his shameful actions. I witnessed his attack on those libertly-minded citizens at city hall and was shocked at what a jerk he really is.

Anon 11:47, Jody is not a knucklehead. She is a conservative, and that's what you don't like about her. As a CPA she looked over the last city budget and tried to show the city council where they could cut over $4 million dollars of waste right off the top. The elitist council was totally NOT willing to listen to any of it. I know, I was there and saw the look of contempt on their faces. But they sure perked up when the pervert in the clown suit had something to say. So, who's the knuckleheads? That would be you and your city council buddies.

9:34 1st of all I am a conservative, but that does not change my opinion of Jody - she has said some very off the wall comments - she looks scary and she ran her campaign on CNH's time. If she ever thinks about running again, she'll have the same results. And lastly I don't know anyone on the city council - so who's the knucklehead???

Interesting discussion.....this is my first time posting a comment here. I have many:

1. Who cares about Becker? He's gone, he's out. Focus on now and the future. Accusing people of covering up a pedophile for 6 years is unfair. Like anyone on city council knew about that before it happened. People will say anything to be nasty, won't they? Even people who, themselves, are likely downloading porn of whatever kind in their own homes. Let he who isn't porn addicted cast the first stone. (Not defending Becker. No way. Just pointing out massive hypocrisy.)

2. Know that apartment building on 6th Street with the red doors - the one next to the dance studio? How many blocks is that from the proposed c-store? Yeah, that's right. THAT'S why no one wants the liquor license in the c-store. Duh. Call it racist, call it elitist, call it what you may. Facts are facts. Yes, the people in those apartments (and other similar establishments in the immediate surrounding area) might need groceries. But so do I. I have to drive way more than a mile to get to Piggly Wiggly or Pick N Save. Why should it be different for them? That's life in the modern world - live in downtown, you get the inconvenience of living in downtown. It's that way in most downtowns.

3. I, for one, am going to be the first and only person in this discussion to say NO, I DON'T WANT A C-STORE on 6th Street or on Main Street because YES, BOOZE BRINGS PROBLEMS and MAKES THE AREA SCUMMY. Anyone want to identify a classy c-store, or an upscale c-store in Racine or anywhere else? Feel free to post the address and good luck. Sixth Street has soooo much potential if only we could attract the RIGHT kinds of businesses. Shops, boutiques, galleries. For those who say that kind of "elitist crap" doesn't serve the average Joe, I ask this: What about the fact that all across America for the last 30 years, there is hardly a downtown area in a town the size of Racine that has flourished commercially? The answer: Walmart, Kmart, Sam's Club, Aldi's, Target, Shopko, Best Buy, the Mall. Yes, folks, the average man long, long ago abandoned downtown Mom & Pop stores to shop where there is variety and money savings. In this economy, newsflash, that's not going to change. The only people who frequent c-store these days are people looking for Big Gulps (kids) and those looking for liquor (do the math). That's why c-stores (Quik Trip the exception) are generally located where they are....near to poorer populations. The 6th Street Market was a "grocery store" and it didn't make it. What makes you think another will? Oh, unless it has (cheap, common) liquor - then it will, right? Exactly. It's all about the booze.

-I am not a business owner in this town, not even close.-I am not a city politician.-I don't know the players in this drama.-All I am is a citizen who knows that if you open a c-store, you will attract a bad crowd. I'd rather see something better on 6th Street, even if the proposed owners are great business people where RESTAURANTS are concerned. City Council did right.

The last thing we need Downtown is a "Food and Liquor" store. I think that a new grocery store that happens to sell liquor would be much better for downtown. Racine has a severe image problem and a food and liquor is not going to help.

Dear 9:34 AM, Who died and made you God? Who are you to say that a person adds no value to a community? If you are a minion of the Frank Lloyd Wright-loving Waxies, I pity you because your masters will throw you to the wolves when they decide that you contribute zilch to their Scam-ily Scum-pany.

Dear 8/13/2009 9:34 AM, If anyone will be driven out of Racine, it will be the wicked Waxies and their arrogant minions. Unlike your privileged class, the poor whom you seek to banish have done military service and, hence, know how to use violence to accomplish a mission. (No, I'm not threatening you and your irksome ilk. Rather, I speak as a survivor of the Detroit Urban Insurrections of July '67 and April '68. In the wake of these events, the Motor City's dollar sign dynasties sought to remove the underclass. Instead of leaving, the low-income people ran the rich out of town.)

I had mixed opinions on the c-store until reading anon. 201 PM's post. Now I agree with him and all that have opposed this use of space. Downtown Racine deserves better. Let the DRC do its job and get a first class grocer. It seems that such a development could be economically justified if it were given a priority and properly presented by those whose job it is to do so.

Dear OrbsCorbs, You're absolutely right about the difference between Elite Racine and Real Racine. The true story of Racine is "A Tale of Two Cities" whose denizens despise each other. As the economy worsens for workers and other marginalized victims of our system,they'll grow increasingly resentful of the oligarchs and their pet yuppies. Someday the privileged classes will pay for their crimes against ordinary humanity. Let's hope that the rich don't lose their lives along with their loot.

When the art galleries, boutiques, pricey restaurants and other yuppie playpens go up in flames, don't say that nobody tried to warn the elite and its lackeys. No, this NOT a threat. Rather, it's a sad prediction by a person who survived several urban insurrections in the sixties. This evil little town is ripe for retribution--high unemployment, a dearth of decent jobs for ordinary residents, an art-obsessed oligarchy which values objects above people, a thoroughly-heartless upper-middle class which blames the poor for their misery and rampant racism all guarantee that Racine will go down in blood and fire. Their dead-and-damned hero Frank Llloyd Wright won't save the elite from the well-earned wrath to come. (Anyone who says that it will never happen should research the history of our Dumbbell City. Violent class clashes have been here since the eighteen-hundreds. During the nineteen-fifties, a major strike led to incidents which gained national notoriety. For a while, Racine was known as "Little Moscow" due to its militant unions. When the overlords and their yuppie flunkeys least expect it,the marginalized classes will rise in righteous rage.)

Anon 10:16 you are a perfect example of someone talking out of their back end. Name one "off the wall" thing that Jody has said. She did not run her campaign on CNH time. She worked on it during her lunch hours, took some vacation time, after work and on weekends. And you're showing yourself, once again, to be the knucklehead liberal, or RINO, who can only make attacks on someone personally when you have no facts to back you up.

Anon 2:01, no, Becker is not gone. Not when Pete and Dustin run articles about what a great guy he is and how well he's doing. And the JT mentions in an article that the charges might be dropped against him. The guy was caught red-handed with downloaded CHILD porn on his computer and initiated an illicit afair with what he thought was a 14 year old girl. And it does matter that city council members are still socializing with the pervert. That tells us a lot about their character. Not the kind of people I want to see re-elected.

I know the "red door" building you're talking about. It's across from city hall and a long way from where the c-store was going to be. In fact, the people there would be more likely to go to the J&M gas station for beer than the c-store. And in the city council's infinite wisdom, they want all the shops, boutiques, galleries and upscale businesses to populate 6th St., but then they want to turn the apartments of the 2nd floor of those buildings into low income housing. Where is the sense in that? But a c-store selling only beer and wine is too much of a negative thing. Give me a break.

Anon 2:43, I don't see anyone or any chain clammoring to open a grocery store on 6th St. So why don't you?

Anon 3:56, where at any point did I say that a specific person adds no value to a community? I have no love for J-Wax or any of their KRM scam to stick the taxpayers of Racine for a train no one but their rich executives will use to get back and forth to work. On the other hand, I don't want them to pack up and move their business out of Racine because it would be the death nell of the town. They are, for lack of a better term, a necessary evil. But it sounds like you would do away with them and put all those people out of work.

Anon 4:22, don't preach to me about military service. I've been there and done that. And I have not suggested bannishing the poor. I would bannish all of the illegal aliens sucking off the resources of those taxpayers that work hard for a living and pull those resources away from the truly needy U.S. CITIZENS who deserve help. Don't put words in my mouth.

Anon 6:04, the "art-obsessed oligarchy which values objects above people" are your city council. They are the ones pushing for the artsy upscale envirion for 6th St. They are the "thorourghly-heartless" ones who keep people down and make it impossible for them to open laundromats and c-stores in their "artsy" downtown project. Based on the way our city council operates, this town could still be called "Little Moscow." They're nothing but a bunch of socialist, liberal elitists that constantly waste taxpayer money and have only their own self-serving interests at heart.

Dear 747, If I possessed the means to leave Rat-Scene, I would. Unfortunately, my only asset is a reverse-mortgaged home which I must inhabit and maintain in order to obtain funds. As for adding value to a community, I think that keeping a house from turning into an eyesore would count. Why are you so condescending? Who died and made you the King of the River?