As we examine Perfect Worlds across RN this week, the literary elephant-in-the-room is Thomas More's Utopia itself. What did it mean when he coined the term in the sixteenth century? Was it a work of literature or politics, and just how specific an idea was it? We explore these ideas with two experts of the origins of Utopian literature, Professor of History of Political Thought at the University of London, Gregory Claeys, and Dr Jacqueline Dutton from Melbourne University, a specialist in Utopias in Australia and in French literature

Guests

Gregory Claeys

Professor of the History of Political thought at Royal Holloway, University of London. Editor of the Cambridge Companion to Utopian Literature and many other works on the history of politics of Utopia as an idea.

Jacqueline Dutton

School of Languages and Linguistics, University of Melbourne. Contributor to the Cambridge Companion to Utopia. Specialist in the idea of Utopia in France and Australia.

Credits

Producer

Kate Evans

Comments (6)

metaboleus :

05 Oct 2012 10:33:14am

The ambiguity of More's Utopia starts with the title. Topas is Greek for place, but did More mean eu-topia, which would be good place or did he mean ou-topia which would be no place. going by his mocking tone i would think he meant outopia, that is no place. War is Over.

maikel annahlee :

06 Oct 2012 1:59:03pm

"The ambiguity of More's Utopia...going by his mocking tonei would think he meant outopia...."Perhaps, but i hear his tone as'ironic' and not "mocking"; for like Jesus, he embraces the 'paradox' and means both. "War is Over" OK; but what follows?

Flandrensis :

05 Oct 2012 11:08:02am

Fascinating program. We kid ourselves if we think humans can bring about Utopia or anthing like it. We are too too sinful and selfish so need our hearts changed. Christians know that Utopia and true peace on earth will happen only when Jesus Christ returns to fix up the mess we have made on planet earth. The good book is the one book that tells the truth about why we now experience hell on earth and gives hope for mankind. It has many promises about the 1,000 year soon coming reign of Jesus Christ. I think that is the closest we will get to Utopia this side of Heaven. It will be the government of Jesus Christ that restores what we lost in the Garden of Eden when Adam first rebelled against His Creator. God will fulfil our desires for eternal life and for Utopia - not mankind.Sadly too many choose to deny or ignore His existence which is why we do not have Utopia on earth now.

Tawatja :

07 Oct 2012 5:11:19am

Hmmm - the most charitable thing to say about Flandrensis' comment is that Jesus of Nazareth has to join the queue as pre-Thomas More salespeople for Utopian vision. J of N's spiel would probably count as a vote for outopia (see metaboleus' comment), as what he promoted was certainly not going to happen anywhere nearby your mum and dad's house. This Jewish lad's effort certainly wasn't the first and won't be the last. Shouldn't we add Walt Disney to the list? He has been responsible for a lot more authentic happiness per capita - and fewer deaths - than Christians have dished out over the past few millenia. If we stand back and rationally consider the contribution of Christianity to human happiness on the planet, I suggest it rests firmly in the 'distopia' parking space.

maikel annahlee :

06 Oct 2012 3:00:00pm

But ALL humans don't "kid ourselves if WE think humans can....fix up the mess We have made on planet earth."Because WE know that it's also our responsibility: not just Jesus Christ's. For he's surely done his share!

And to claim: "The good book is the one book that tells the truth...." just as truly explains: "why we now experience hell on earth...."

For it: "gives [false] hope for mankind [by falsely promising] the 1,000 year soon coming reign of Jesus Christ....."And that: " it will be the government of Jesus Christ that restores what we lost in the Garden of Eden...."

So that: "God will fulfil our desires for eternal life and for Utopia...." If this is true: then why didn't God get it right with JC the first time?

And then ALL WE humans would NOT: "Sadly... choose to deny or ignore His existence which is why we [would then ] have Utopia on earth now."

On this point, I agree with Pope Benedict. A sincere agnostic or even an atheist is preferable to a couch potato Christian, who denies his gift of freedom of choice and human responsibility!

Flandrensis :

08 Oct 2012 3:50:45pm

Yes we are responsible for the mess on this planet and to do something about it. I do my bit as we are stewards of the planet and true christianity is belief and actions so cannot sep the two. God gave us the responsibility of caring for the planet and to use its resources wisely. We have not been wise.

Yes we do have freedom of choice but there are God given limits to ours in many realms.(like gravity) We are responsible to live wisely and to consider the consequences of what we do. To pick up after ourselves and others if needs be, yes to clean up the mess. To not use our freedomsto harm others or the planet.

We delude ourselves if we just want freedom to be and do without any laws thinking that will create some kind of utopia. Each doing what is right in their own eyes is not true freedom it is rebellion.Freedom without limits/laws eventually ends up in anarchy and has painful consequences. Which destroys the whole idea of a Utopia.

Yes so called Christianity has caused lost of deaths on this planet. That is beyond dispute and I do not deny. But so have many other religions and belief systems.Agnostics have also been guilty of turning a blind eye to many evils on this planet and use the excuse that they do not know what to believe.Atheists who think they are God want to change many of the laws that protect human life, the child and the baby in the womb (who is a person from the time of conception) Have also been guilty of much killing.

The prophesied utiopia (heaven on earth or earth in heaven depending on the view) that God promises in the good book will happen as have all the other prophecies in the good book. They will happen in God's good time. He never fails nor is late when it comes to the big scheme of things.

For you to say it is a false hope or he did not get it right the first time Jesus came just indicates ignorance or lack of understanding of the eternal plan of God for human beings and planet earth.

Yes, Jesus did do his share as far as saving the souls of mankind but that is only the first part of the plan. The best is yet to come... first salvation of the soul,then the body (those who are in Christ) and then the planet and entire cosmos.

There certainly are couch potato christians but when it comes to the stats there are many more couch potato atheists and couch potato agnostics that have contributed tothe mess on planet earth.(Doubt that even one in six people are genuine followers of Jesus.. may only be one in ten)

I have never thought of myself as a couch potato Christian as am quite active when it comes to sharing the faith, being an ambassador for The King, spreading the gospel,teaching the word and doing my bit to look after the planet. But being active does not prevent me from looking forward to the Utopia promised by God. As a Christian I can do both... be a good steward now and look f