When I was a little kid mom used to tell me: "It's already 18:00, go and do your prayer. You need to pray to get peace and prosperity in your life..."

However, while picking up my days I started having a different approach at this thing which is called religion. What is the meaning of religion? Does God exist? 24 years of age right now and I've been an atheist for more than half of my life. The God Delusion is a book by British biologist Richard Dawkins, holder of the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford.

In his book, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in God qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence. He is sympathetic to Robert Pirsig's observation that when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity and when many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

I should admit that I have not got the opportunity to go through his book but I've been really inspired by his beliefs and ideas when I watched him on BBC World some days ago. I come from a religious family as are an estimated 86% of the world's population. So, in this regard I belong to the minority group referred as non-religious. Still, I am firm on my beliefs and I would like to hear about your perceptions and beliefs in God and religion.

Last edited by Varun on Mon 4 Jan 2010 - 19:45; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Update)

mo ena enn reponse pou toi shanu mo encore etudiant et anything that can't be explained by science are paranormal stuffs or miracles.You better believe in it. .Sometimes positives things which you do not expect in life happen and on the otherhand shits also happens.So chilled bro

I wrote:Moving on to little Prithvi's question, Ramayana is an ancient Sanskrit epic written by the poet Valmiki. Ramayana narrates the story of Lord Rama and plays an important part in the lives of Hindus as being one of their most sacred books which include the Bhagavad Gita and the Mahabhrata but then, the same question arises again; are there any attributes backing the authencity of these epics, as Smita already underlined before?

Well, I have already argued that the proofs of God's existence are wrong and that the ideas of God contain all manner of contradictions and absurdities. I have also talked about the atrocities happening around us but it remained undebated and there's no use in talking about those religious fanatics who blow themselves and innocent children up and fill their pockets with nails so that the explosions can aim even more people.

Furthermore, religion has time and again been used to oppress people and force them to abide by dehumanizing rules and it stops free thinking in its tracks which makes it even easier to prevent people from improving their lot and question their dictators. All of these things make me so angry that I struggle to put it into words. How dare such people presume to make themselves lords of their neighbours based on a book filled with blessings of violence, rape and war written by primitive people millennia ago?

Atheists are often told by theists that since they aren't religious, they can't behave morally. However I think it says quite a bit about the morality of those saying such things. Who is really the more moral person, he who behaves well by his own volition or he who only behaves well because he's threatened with the eternal torment of hell?

Some see a disadvantage in the lack of "magic" in the world of the atheist, I don't. I think that the real world is awe inspiring without the filter of religion. As the author Douglas Adams puts it: "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

Religion limits people by imposing nonsensical rules created by humans in a totally different society. Atheism on the other hand sets us free. It breaks down the barriers that exist between persons who each have their own version of the "one true belief" and atheists don't have to feel guilty for enjoying beer, pork or sex.

There seems to be a wide spread acceptance of the idea that it's wrong to criticize other people's religious ideas and while political satire is completely acceptable, religious satire isn't. I must admit that the reasoning behind this eludes me. If someone believes that the best way to combat unemployment is to chop off everybody's hands then no one would demand that we respect this point of view and think it beyond criticism or satire. Why then is it that such demands are made regarding the dangerous and absurd claims of religion?

I won't respect a point of view that is arguably silly and morally abhorrent to me and I will reserve the right to criticize it with or without the use of satire. On the other hand, I accept the right of others to hold such points of view. By putting religion beyond criticism, we risk being stuck in a quagmire of religious ignorance, oppression and violence.

However, we shouldn't mock religion but there's a difference between mocking and satire. Mocking is simply putting other people down, while satire is a useful tool for making a point clearer through the use of humour and exaggeration.

I wrote:Theists are bound to believe that everything has a cause and from this assumption it is argued that the universe must have had a cause and that this cause is God. However, if everything has a cause then God must also have a cause and that cause must have a cause and so on infinitely. This is a conclusion that I think isn't palatable for any theist. If the theist, to counter this, claims that God is uncaused then he has contradicted the assumption on which the argument is based and has therefore invalidated it.

Also, what happened to us were because of our own carelessness as football is neither played on an uneven surface nor with slippers.

Was it an attempt to joke, Nitish? We can prove the presence of air through various scientific experiences but I am repeating my unanswered question time and again; how can you prove God's existence? Prove it with facts, not assumptions.

god is found within oneself...pareil kouma bane sentiment...eski to kpav prove so bane sentiment ki to resenti .... u yourself u r talking about scientific experiments.....what about the ramayan (lanka) path which was proved to have existed by satelite....n i guess satelites are scientific advances...

hey deesha u mean that the path already existed, then they make a story like that, but just enter the website n read the documents...

"The bridge's unique curvature and composition by age reveals that it is man made. The legends as well as Archeological studies reveal that the first signs of human inhabitants in Sri Lanka date back to the a primitive age, about 1,750,000 years ago and the bridge's age is also almost equivalen..."

people believe in only what they see, but there is also the unseem and the unheard. Our ear can hear to a certain limit, the one we can't hear is known as ultrasound, fortunately science prooved it else we would say this also does not exist. There are millions of facts still science cannot proove.

Many says people believe in religion blindly, but i say we believe in science blindly.

Can anyone tell me what will happen to a man who kill 1000 people, molested many women and died peacefully?Can science explain that?

Can anyone tell me what will happen to a man that prayed all long his life and made sacrifice and died peacefully 2?

U can say they will die, hmmm nothing will happen then...

So why are we all doing good things in this world, lets do killing and rapes?

If you are so concerned about the people who do tortures why don't you kill them and make the world peaceful, what are you waiting for. GOD?

Everyone must keep something in mind, as we have bad scientists we also have bad preachers of religion.

People who use religion to kill, they only know half of the story. That's y someone said it's better to know nothing than to know half of the story because we make too many assumption for the other half.

Bin Laden all that are all cheaters...

I have another question for scientists, why are we living in this world?Why are we in front of our pc discussing of the existence of god?

Atheists are making like old days, they think the world is flat. It's only because they did not go beyond.

To go beyond start reading books of Ramakrishna, Vivekanada...

As there is no flames without fire, the vedas are not here just like that...

A little fact yoga is a very tiny portion of the vedas, for keeping our body healthy, science has now accepted that yoga keeps us on good health. All the different postures have unbelievable benefits.

Also i don't think a damn that nowadays there are more and atheists because now people have become "intelligent".

It's only because of bad preachers, be it pandits or maulanas.

They have only one motto, divide and rule...every one want to rule the world in the name of religion...be it Ousama or some greedy pandits who talk on radios every morning.

How foolish we are so happy to divided and question the unquestionable...

I can now to the answers of this debate...

Where is GOD?It's omnipresent, it's even inside you right now.Who is GOD?Every one has a god and evil...You become the one you nurtures the most. In short it can be you.That's why there are books like ramayana that tells you how you can nurture them...If everyone nurthures god sufferings will end...What is GOD's role?I bet you know it more than me, else you would not be so concerned about the torturings

Where is the soul?Inside this body made up of the 5 element of natureOf what is it made of?I don't know nor scientists knows nor u know...that did not made you to stop believing in scientists. Why did u stop believing in GOD thenWhat is the soul role?To attain the unreachable physically...

Those who still don't believe in god, scientists have experienced bizarre waves in haunted houses...i leave it for u to discover these facts in more explicit details.

I can continuing on explaing the relavancy of GOD, but unfortunately time constraints.

We are humans and we have always been fascinated by what is around us and I guess Deesha and Visham are perfectly right on this matter.

ramke555, if science hasn't yet proved those millions of facts as you are claiming then I guess you forgot the bit where I talked about "God of the Gaps".

Moving ahead in your reply, some of your questions are so absurd and ridiculous that I can only laugh about them and one example is where you're asking what will happen to the man who kills 1000 people and molested many women.

ramke555 wrote:If you are so concerned about the people who do tortures why don't you kill them and make the world peaceful, what are you waiting for. GOD?

I am not here to raise violence against the ones who are already doing so much harm to the society. I am only trying to make people see that belief in God is a delusion and I am also trying to get people away from your thoughts of adopting "la loi du talion".

ramke555 wrote:I have another question for scientists, why are we living in this world?Why are we in front of our pc discussing of the existence of god?

This question has already been answered by Darwins nearly 150 years ago in "The Origin of Species". You need to update your grey matter, buddy.

ramke555 wrote:Atheists are making like old days, they think the world is flat. It's only because they did not go beyond.

To go beyond start reading books of Ramakrishna, Vivekanada...

As there is no flames without fire, the vedas are not here just like that...

Another repeated question arises again; what's the authenticity of those religious epics?

ramke555 wrote:Where is GOD?It's omnipresent, it's even inside you right now.Who is GOD?Every one has a god and evil...You become the one you nurtures the most. In short it can be you.That's why there are books like ramayana that tells you how you can nurture them...If everyone nurthures god sufferings will end...What is GOD's role?I bet you know it more than me, else you would not be so concerned about the torturings

Where is the soul?Inside this body made up of the 5 element of natureOf what is it made of?I don't know nor scientists knows nor u know...that did not made you to stop believing in scientists. Why did u stop believing in GOD thenWhat is the soul role?To attain the unreachable physically...

I'm fed up with these assumptions. You've talked about ultra sound earlier but that's a well proven reality. Where are the facts to back your statements?

ramke555 wrote:Those who still don't believe in god, scientists have experienced bizarre waves in haunted houses...i leave it for u to discover these facts in more explicit details.

Very low frequency sound has a creepy effect on the brain. I myself get very excited when my powerful subwoofer shakes my room.

Anyway, have you ever entered a room that has a weird or uncomfortable feeling about it? Are you convinced that a certain room is haunted? Ghosts might be causing these feelings but the more rational explanation is that you're just being freaked out by low frequency sound waves.

All around us objects are giving off different sounds; some you can hear and others you can't. Sounds are a type of wave that spread out from any vibrating object. Our ears are designed to detect sounds in the range 20 - 20,000 Hertz. Sounds below this range are vibrating too slowly for us to hear but you can actually feel them with your body and we call them infrasound.

Infrasonic waves can sometimes be produced by machines such as vehicles, household equipment and heating and cooling systems. It has been known for some time that these low frequency waves can cause symptoms such as nausea, headaches, fatigue, insomnia, vibration of internal organs and a feeling of oppression.

Could infrasonic waves be the explanation for certain ghostly apparitions? In 1998 Vic Tandy, a lecturer at Coventry University, discovered that the haunting of a laboratory was not caused by a ghost with a passion for science but by a 19 Hertz infrasound wave created by an extractor fan...

A "spook" had been seen in the laboratory... But it seems that that the infrasonic waves in the room may have been responsible by making people's eyeballs vibrate, causing blurring of their vision and hallucinations at the edges of their visual field. Since exorcising the ghost in the laboratory, Vic Tandy has gone on to discover that infrasound waves were also the cause of the supposed hauntings of a 14th century cellar in Coventry.

So, next time you're in a room that has a paranormal feel about it, have a look around it and check that the feeling isn’t caused by a vibrating machine or building before calling in an exorcist!

Now ramke555, are you still sure about your relevancy of God? I'm so eager so hear from you again. However, I hope you will bring it on with facts next time, not assumptions.

Last edited by Varun on Wed 10 Dec 2008 - 13:49; edited 7 times in total

Well i just want to add that Its up to someone to believe in god or not..Evryone has got his share of experiences in life..n accordin to this some believe in god n some not.. It all depends on the person.. As for me i am a believer of god..not only becoz of the environment tht i've grown up with but with my own experiences in life.. Karma also exists.. As u sow..SO shall u reap.. I dont think that any scientist or watever kan shake my belief in god.. I read it somewhere tht some say god doesnt exist..its ur choice not to believe coz u cant find a reason to believe in..If u guys have read some holy scriptures or did hinduism..you'll know tht there r 4 yug.. Satya yug, Treta Yug, Dwapar yug n Kaliyug..in the present we're in kalyug where everything bad will happen..till the end where everyone's destroyed n killed.. N then again a new life cycle will start with Satya Yug..where the truth n happiness prevails.. This is wat i got from a little research "As per Indian astronomy and Hindu Mythology the world is created, destroyed and recreated every 4,320,000 years (Maha Yuga) [2].

The cycles are said to repeat like the seasons, waxing and waning within a greater time-cycle of the creation and destruction of the universe. Like Summer, Spring, Winter and Fall each yuga involves stages or gradual changes that the earth and the consciousness of mankind goes through as a whole. A complete yuga cycle from a high Golden Age of enlightenment to a Dark Age and back again is said to be caused by the solar system's motion around a central sun." we hindus have got many gods..but the ones we pray most is Shiva, Hanuman, Rama, Vishnu n more devi's.. I'd like to know if ur parents believe in god?? If so i'd like u to go ask them y do they believe in god..Most probably they will tell you its wat they learned from there parents or grandparents.. But y do they believe in god if u their kids think tht it doesnt exist at all..

Yes sorry for this long absence as I was very busy these days with university projects n all...Bla bla bla

Well, as I said in my previous post, God exists! I donno for you people but for me God is there...Its all about faith in him...N ya who says that believing in God necessarily doing lengthy prayers etc. I dont and I am not even a religious person...I just believe in him, thats all.

Yeah I talked about a miracle happening to me earlier...Well, to be brief about it, its all about me and a guy who was after me for some time..well he still is...He was blackmailing me and all and it all happened within 2 hours. Knowing my personality and my strong and arguing character...I would not have let myself "se faire laisser avoir par ce gars" as we say in French and I promised myself to take care of this guy once it was morning. It was about 10.30pm at night when he was talking to me...

At night i cldnt sleep due to this guy's talks etc and I could sense real trouble...It was just impossible to sleep, I tossed around and around for hours as I was very worried. Then, I prayed to my God to get me out of this trouble which was bugging me. I prayed hard and after some time, I could feel myself relax and sleep peacefully...

Well well, when I woke up in the morning, the same guy smsed me and apologized profusely, recognising his mistake...and even suggesting to send me a written apology.I was just left dumbstuck. It was God's miracle and I love him for that. Its all about faith.

And to believe in him or not...its all your choice! I am happy the way I am, thats it. C ya.

Hmmm, well Chitra I feel wat u've written is good but the topic is about god delusion..wat I had understood when Varun started this I think he wanted facts on which we could argue n justify the existence of god etc etc..but after reading wat u've written I couldnt find a point on which we could argue..

Am still trying to understand and bring it to a conclusion and be sure of what am saying then I will carry forward with you guys.I see sense about what Varun told me but on the other side my father forced to believe in these religious things and to believe in God.

well mo pa tro like get involve in this part of the forum couma varun conner b puiske mo pena nanier pu fer b mo ti pu dire ki pa nerport ki sanla kine ecrire ramayana..c ban sage, ban enlightened people..tou comme gautam buddha, he was enlightened n we follow his teachings. meme jesus repren ban teachings buddha pu preach..bt then li dire li kine dire sa! enfin just pour dire ki pa kapav cree n zistoir out of the blues..n then dan place guet ziss zistoir ram sita, get so ban teachings..c sa ki n dimoune bizin gueter dan place pass letemp met tou sort suposition..n zistoir li la pu done n moral. mo ti envi poz n kestion. i read from a magasin the other day that ena dimoun ki croire dan bon dieu believing that God put un on this earth..others atheists believe that earth was formed n life started from a cell.. then another theory is that of aliens..how do we prove that we r not aliens ki sorti from another planet n migrated on earth? after all person zamais pan trouve n alien..bt a lot of people believe in it. so u reckon there is a possibility that men might b aliens? there is a book on that too bt i dunno the name..pu rod li n cou!

Bhavna wrote:how do we prove that we r not aliens ki sorti from another planet n migrated on earth?

Humans have been present for an eternity on Earth but the first realistic proposal of space travel goes back to Konstantin Tsiolkovsky and his work was published in 1903. The first thing to reach space was a rocket prototype of the German V-2 on a test flight on October 3, 1942.

Vishaan, earlier you said you'll ask your mom to register in the forum so that she can participate in the various topics and I thought it would be a good idea. However, The God Delusion has not been created to discuss whether your mom wants to post something or not. It would be much appreciated if you could stick to relevant discussions in the forum next time.

Last edited by Varun on Mon 21 Apr 2008 - 21:56; edited 1 time in total