Failed ‘frenzy’ at MK Dons

Milton Keynes Dons, the team that was formed off the back of Wimbledon’s league place in possibly the ugliest formation of a football club in British footballing history. Rightly or wrongly though, they’re here now and after years of League One football they continue to clearly disappoint owner Pete Winkelman as his promise of Premier League football looks a long way away.

I should admit before I go into detail that I’m against MK Dons and their formation, it was wrong and should never be allowed to happen again, but I’m not here to bash their formation and how it came about. I’m merely stating how their supposed potential really hasn’t been realised and the controversial move hasn’t exactly produced the exciting results that Pete Winkelman was so desperate to prove.

When Wimbledon’s football club was moved to Milton Keyes and changed their name, badge, colours etc, the man behind it, Pete Winkelman, foresaw a promising future with a, and I quote, ‘frenzy’ being born in Milton Keynes, Premier League football and huge amounts of fans attending Stadium MK on a regular basis. Sounded interesting on the surface and perhaps unrealistically adventurous but neutrals like myself were, perhaps with gritted teeth, keen to see if a buzz was created and if his project would flourish. Well, put simply, it hasn’t.

Milton Keynes are now the definition of promotion flops in League One, failing to reach the Championship on numerous occasions, nowhere near attracting the sort of crowds Winkelman predicted and, on the whole, haven’t used Wimbledon’s league place wisely. We shouldn’t forget that Wimbledon’s Dons are now in League Two, just one league behind MK, and that’s after starting from scratch and working their way up from the bottom of the English football pyramid. We all know the remarkable story but people rarely compare their fortunes alongside MK Dons’. Fact is, AFC Wimbledon have been far more successful and have certainly developed a ‘frenzy’ Pete Winkelman so evidently craves. Perhaps you simply can’t buy or create passion and expect large numbers of fans to get behind it, home and away, on a regular basis?

Milton Keynes Dons’ last home match against Crawley Town saw a mediocre crowd of 8,877 fill out the rather soulless, echoing dome that is Stadium MK. This is a stadium that has a capacity of 30,500. Fact is, football matches aren’t going to fill it because the people of Milton Keynes simply haven’t fallen in love with the team that represents where they’re from. Concerts, rugby matches and other events will sell it out though as that interests the wider masses; something Winkelman will certainly welcome but nowhere near as much as a large, sellout football crowd.

Attend Stadium MK now and the home fans will hardly sing, show anywhere near as much enthusiasm or love for their club as the majority of other fans do and you’ll see an MK Dons side that continue to disappoint and constantly look set for League One mediocrity season after season. It’s no different this campaign, with MK sitting in eight place, well off the place-offs. There’s nothing for MK Dons fans to sing about, apart from the odd chant at opposition supporters who tend to sing a lot louder than the home crowd do.

Obviously League One football doesn’t attract massive crowds like Premier League football would, but the club aren’t meant to be in League One. They’re failing to progress and grow and with it, enthusiasm for the club simply isn’t there. Winkelman went to all the trouble of moving a London club to Buckinghamshire and rebranding it for the people of Milton Keynes, but the people of Milton Keynes simply aren’t warming to the club.

Most MK Dons fans will tell you about their wonderful youth system, their potential should they get into the Premier League and the fact they’re building something for the future, with young kids attending more games than any other age group (partly down to free tickets), but what they fail to acknowledge is the fact that without a sustainable model and progress on the pitch, nothing truly remarkable will be achieved there. Crowds need to improve, the team need to start performing better and general interest around the club needs to increase for any real ‘frenzy’ to be acknowledged. Until that happens, MK Dons are just that club that have attempted to build something special off the back of Wimbledon’s league place, but have failed horrifically.

MK Dons have never played a game in the championship so I’m afraid your facts are wrong. When they played Wolves a few weeks ago there was a crowd of 20,516. They are able to attract large crowds for big games but just the core group of supporters is small which you would expect after being formed just 10 years ago.

ASDA-Walmart and an FA Commission gave Milton Keynes a Division 2 (now laughably called the Championship) place in 2002.

That it took well over a year to actually move the league place to play in MK further reinforces the patent fact that it was all just a property deal.

If franchise were only formed “just ten years ago” (actually it’s 12) as you say why were they given a place in the second tier of English professional football? No other new football club in modern history has been given that enormous boost.

Wolves showed the franchise that day what support was about. Although its appalling that 9000 felt the need to put money into a franchised organisation. And they should hang their heads in shame at that fact. The residents of MK had their choice of clubs before, as well as their own non league one. To put it another way, the home attendance at the wolves game was actually less than a non league club don the road managed. With a midday kick off. On TV. Personally, the sooner the franchise organisation go bust the better. Because they shouldn`t exist. Have no right to exist. and Their “support” was nowhere to be seen when M had a legitimate club

It was just a property deal by the world’s largest company – ASDA-Walmart. The stadium was paid for by Europe’s largest supermarket next door. That is a success I expect. The football entertainment company and its stadium were just a necessary by-product at the time. They have lost millions every year in MK, play to smaller crowds that Wimbledon did at Selhurst Park and are still one division lower than when the league place was franchised.

An average attendance of 8932 over the course of a season in league 1 would be considered healthy but coupled with the fact the club is only 10 years old and building a fan base it’s all the more remarkable. The same club who took over 30000 to wembley for the JPT final, that was a frenzy that day, overall we are a progressive club who granted haven’t hit the heights we all hoped and strived for but we have built the infrastructure of the club and at long last there will be funding available to improve the squad, which will allow us to compete with the bigger teams in league 1 and make a concerted effort to reach the championship. For the record Vincent the Port Vale fan, your club formed in 1876 then again in 1907, a stadium capacity of 18,900 but an average attendance of 6298 so maybe you should look at your own club before castigating other clubs, as the saying goes those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

They did not steal their League place from another community just to get a supermarket built.

You did, hence the continued criticism of franchise’s formation and the patently ridiculous justifications for it that continue to this day on this page.

It was supposed to be a frenzy. It isn’t. Your claim about needing to be in the Premier League or Championship to be a success is pathetic. You could build a free 30,000 seater stadium in any town in the country without a current League team and say the same.

Not too sure where Nathan is getting his facts from but the statement “MK, play to smaller crowds that Wimbledon did at Selhurst Park ” is untrue. A quick glance back at the stats will inform you that in the three seasons that Wimbledon played at Selhurst in the Championship (formally known as Division 1) the average attendances were less than any of the last 7 in MK.

2000/01 – 7,901 2001/02 – 6,960 2002/03 – 5,789

This seasons average attendance is 8,931 down from it’s peak in the 2008/09 post promotion season of 10,563.

Smaller PAYING crowds of football fans, not casual customers of local football entertainment who deserted their original clubs.

No-one sane believes any attendance announced by Winkelman. FA Cup attendances at the White Elephant (which are subject to some scrutiny) were, are and continue to be, pitiful, often barely breaking 3,000.

2002/03 was after the legally-binding decision on 28th May 2002 that allowed Wimbledon’s League place to enable a supermarket property development, leading to the formation of AFC Wimbledon. Your figure of @5,000 (which I question as I believe the real figure is @3,000) is 90% away fans.

So franchise made a profit one year out of ten by selling all its best players against its wishes. Brilliant. How did that turn out? What are the company’s net liabilities now? £6m+? Funny how those noted financial commentators at Sky don’t mention that.

It’s amazing that a Port Vale fan is criticising the achievements of MK Dons in 10 years when you consider how much Port Vale have achieved in their illustrious history. So the Dons haven’t reached the top flight in 10 years since formation. Port Vale have been failing to do so for 138 years!

The mediocre attendance of 8877 for the home game against Crawley is still 2579 greater than Port Vale’s average attendance for the whole season. Then also look at the previous home attendance of over 20000.

Still, as you say the people of Milton Keynes clearly haven’t taken to their football team. If only they loved their team as much as the people of Stoke love Port Vale. Think of the success MK Dons could achieve then………

Mk fans have clrearly latched onto this, but what they fail to realise is that although their attendances might be seen as acceptable in their eyes, a large proportion of those attendances are AWAY FANS! Wolves brought a shedload, for example. Also, MK’s away following is shocking which is arguably where you get the most loyal, hardcore fans – something they clearly lack.

Also, saying Wimbledon’s attendances were less in the Championship is irrelevant because most Wimbledon fans didn’t attend games as that’s around the time the move to MK was out of their hands and they were boycotting games and their club was effectively being taken away from them and changed for the people of MK.

MK Dons have disappointed massively and to suggest they’re building something for the future is utterly delusional. It’s a line that gets reeled out by MK fans and Winkelman on a regular basis for years but it’s about time something actually came from it. So far, all I see (Southend fan by the way) is a soulless club punching way above their weight.

Did you ever go to Selhurst Park? The percentage of away fans was a lot higher there than it’s ever been at s:mk.

WFC had four or five thousand fans even in the glory years of top flight football. The rest was away fans and bored SW Londoners. Most of them went back to supporting their first club Chelsea once the MK move happened.

manchester united will bring more away followers than crewe. the greater percentage of away followers was due to the team whose place you stole being more successful than you. The fa has made many mistakes. letting your abortion of a club exist is by far the worst. excellen article nathan.

MK fans are quick to defend their franchise, aren’t they? It’s clearly a touchy subject as deep, deep down Winkelman and his brainwashed army of fuckwits are panicking. League One is getting tougher and tougher and with it, MK Dons are just fading into L1 mediocrity and not the Premier League frenzy Pete was promising. He’s a moron who lies a hell of a lot, it’s just a shame MK fans can’t see it.

The very fact that Port Vale are being criticised by customers of the odious Franchise is absurd. Let us remember that Franchise don’t count. Their opinions don’t count. Port Vale is 1000 times the club Franchise will ever be. Come to think of it so is Hampton & Richmond. Their club is disgusting. Their fans, by endorsing this hideous blot on the footballing map, are despicable. I hope that the club withers and dies, ideally painfully.

What I love about this debate is that no-one remembers that the Frannies did have their own club they could have supported without needing to steal one. In 2002-3, MK City were at the same level as AFC Wimbledon. AFCW reached the League in 9 yrs, on 4k gates max, and with no external backing. With Winkie’s money and, for argument’s sake, 7-8k crowds., why did the Frannies not try to do the same?

Would that be the first MK City that was owned by the Directors of Wimbledon FC? The club whose lottery licence they used to print and sell scratch cards to fund WFC.

Or the more recent one. The Mercedes Benz team that moved to Milton Keynes from Brentford (a few miles from AFCW’s current ground in Kingston) and then tried to attract local followers by changing colours, badge and name to MK City?

On both counts it seems strange to advocate this.

Unfortunately a lot of what has been published in the media etc is VERY one sided and doesn’t represent the facts.

Whichever MK team it is, it died out because of lack of interest and support. Claiming, as Winkelman did, that MK is a place ‘deserving of a football team’ is utter rubbish as they’ve had plenty but haven’t backed them. The only reason MK have a following is because they’re a league club, once again highlighting the glory-hunting, out of touch support from the MK Cons fans. Franchising isn’t welcome in English football. Simple as that.

Of particular note is that they include hearsay and lies in their so-called ‘facts’, but omit many of the damning facts about Franchise’s owner and chairman, Pete Winkelman. Odd that.

And while I’m here… Franchise’s losses continue to rack up to the tune of more than £2m per year. They are offset by player sales, in exactly the same way as Wimbledon FC did. So Franchise customers should either be claiming their club faces liquidation or they shouldn’t be claiming that about Wimbledon FC. Can’t have it both ways.

“No external backing”!!! Don’t make me laugh. Go look up Isle of Man tax exile Mike Richardson while you ponder who pays for trips to Monza, ground maintenance, tops up player wages and offers the win bonuses.

Similarly, Iain McNay is well on his way to discovering that the only way to make a small fortune out of football is to start out with a large one.

Neither of their pockets are as deep as you’re going to need for NPL though. Some of your lot know that they can’t keep going cap in hand every time things look tough. Tick Tock, Tick Tock…

As usual you’re not as smart as you think you are. Richardson and McNay are fans. Because of their relative wealth they are able and choose to donate more to the club than most other fans. It’s their choice and they are under no obligation to do so. Everyone at Wimbledon contributes what they can to the club, including the most valuable asset – time.

Your rampant jealousy of Wimbledon’s achievements and the way the club is run is duly noted though. Do remember to mention it the next time you’re trying to brown-nose Winkelman or pretending to be know-it-all with your customer acquaintances.

Interesting people pointing out how well the Frannies youth system is going. Not much gets said about the AFC Wimbledon youth set-up, but I see that the Dons youth teams have thumped their Frannie oppo regularly in recent times.

Most of ours were all playing for the first team (or England, for that matter). Go read up on Dan Miccichie to learn a little about how we’ve got the most progressive youth set up in the country. Even your former ally Martin Samuel highlighted that. Results don’t count for our youth team. Having players who can control the ball rather and are schooled the right way than being the biggest lad in the playground is our philosophy. It is paying dividends.

Yes Dele Alli is an absolutely shocking player having scored a hat-trick against Notts County at 17. Theses young players are bad because they play nationally too. I guess you really did ‘proove’ us wrong there.

And my point daniel clarke, which sadly you missed the ‘no so subtle clue’ to – that these players are good enough for the 1st team even though you said ‘Not b/c they’re good enough to be playing there’. They’ll be more than good enough within a year. So don’t go making it seem they’re not.

Whilst “Digger” is on the defensive, (everyday mindset for frannies I suppose) would he care to share why he jettisoned his original allegiance to Man Utd, in favour of Franchise FC? Also what has happened to the MK franzine, formerly headed up by….a Watford deserter? Is Robbingscum going to be retained for another season of failure? Has your resident copyright abuser Ukrainefan been sectioned yet?

The Franchise “fans” are still and always have been severely deluded. They are customers to Winkleman who is, deep down, only concerned with the opportunities that exist for the stadium. Ultimately, he will walk away and do something else, but his company will still own the stadium and could close down the Franchise more easily than they stole WFC’s league place.

I will never set foot in their stadium as long as I am in control of my own mind. We are not a violent bunch by any stretch of the imagination, but I would doubt that Winkleman would travel to our ground (paid for by our fans btw) for any game with us. And given the awful away attendances of the MK customers for games a mere two hours away, I can’t think we’d need to allocate much space in the away terrace for them. Do what we did with Accrington and Fleetwood and put them all in the away seats!

What really surprises me is the amount of tv air time Robinscum gets, especially on Sky Sports. But I guess that Sky are only a couple of notches higher up the ladder of shame than Franchise so I shouldn’t be surprised.

If Patrick Bamford hadn’t been on loan for the first half of this season, Franchise would be fighting relegation. There is no injection of cash for players because insufficient people care about the “future” for the Franchise.

SA – why are you surprised at Sky and Karl “I cried in 88, and will leg it into the changing room at the end of the last game of the season to see if AFCW have been relegated” (sorry we didn’t oblige)” Robinson? Franchise is classic Sky growth country, moving the game to new audiences who want a team to support but can’t be bothered to make the effort to build one.

Let me give a slightly more objective view. I had no real affection for Wimbledon FC above any other club, but watched with concern and sympathy for their supporters as the franchise saga unfolded. It looked a bit like the Newport County and Brighton stories, but worse because it wasn’t quite such a blatant money frenzy, but had been disguised as a football decision. It challenged what I partly loved about the game – the connection between a club and it’s city or town. A few years ago I moved to the Wimbledon area and began to watch AFC when I couldn’t go to my original club due to distance and expense. It is simply a joy to go there – genuine football people with a tangible sense of ownership of the club and real pride in its local connections and what they have achieved, not what has been given to them in exchange for their money. The atmosphere is boisterous, loud, passionate and the crowd knowledgable, but there is also a sense of welcome to clubs experiencing their own difficulties – in other words a real football club with real supporters. I have only been to MK once – not for the AFC FA Cup game, and it was thoroughly dispiriting. Teenage wannabe football factory fans hugely outnumbered by casual observers and kids in a half built, three quarters empty stadium with the only atmosphere generated by the away supporters. MK supporters should – and I say this through slightly gritted teeth – look at the passion and fervour demonstrated at Palace if they are ever to reach their lofty ambitions. In the meantime, as they say at Newport, and applying equally to AFC: Yma O Hyd-“Still here” and coming up behind you ready for the overtake.

“Concerts, rugby matches and other events will sell it out though as that interests the wider masses; something Winkelman will certainly welcome but nowhere near as much as a large, sellout football crowd.”

Now, why would music promoter Peter Winkleman want a stadium between Birmingham and London?

And given that British Heritage donated the stadium:Mk site, and Walmart funded its building, why does Winkleman’s Inter:MK own the stadium, and not the football club?

It’s almost like he needed a reason to build a stadium, much like Walmart needed a community building, so they could turn greenbelt land into brown belt land.

Pete Winkleman has never been a Music Promoter. He was in the Promotions Department (which involves getting records ayes on the radio, not putting gigs on) and then Artist Manager.

Promoters put gigs on. Promotions Staff get records on the radio. Huge difference. To think that he has the inside track on promoting gigs is just ignorance of the music industry. Don’t worry though, the media are just as guilty.

Secondly, interMK is the holding company for the football club. Go look it up at Companies House.

You say ‘holding company’ as if it has any meaning in this – it doesn’t. The football club does not own the stadium. It is not guaranteed revenue from other events and it can be sold separately. Why are we still having to teach you customers this ancient history? The football club itself is no better off than WFC was at Selhurst. You need to accept that fact.

No-one’s mentioned 2-1 yet, so I”ll take care of that one. The scoreline may say one thing, but the reality is there was only one winner. Not only did we TOTALLY outsing you in your own gaff, but the TV money enabled us to buy the players who kept us up, whereas you disappeared into yet another season of Lge1 failure and obscurity. Oh and can you please make sure the toilets are clean before we come next time.

No need to flip this over to Port Vale as their owner hasn’t promised a ‘frenzy’ or Premier League football. It’s a perfectly valid point to make – where’s MK’s progression? Where are the large crowds (of MK fans home AND AWAY)? Where’s the Premier League or even Championship football? Winkelman’s moneymaking master plan has failed so far. No question about it. I’m a neutral supporter and as an outsider only one Dons side has made vast improvements and looks to be heading in the right direction (hope they get Plough Lane) and that’s AFC Wimbledon. MK fans hate to admit it, nobody expects they will, but they’ve wasted the league place they stole. Expecting a comeback of sorts but nothing can justify your franchise and it’s hard to ignore the facts – MK Dons are a mediocre League One side with appalling crowds home and away (especially), a echoing soulless dome and all this off the back of someone else’s league place. Embarrassing club.

What a load of utter bollocks from someone who hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about! For instance the wonderfully successful AFC Kingston he goes on about are 14th in League 2 and get an average gate of 4,127 (according to ESPN). The “failing” Dons are 8th in League 1 and get an average gate of 8,931, the 6th highest in League 1. (Port Vale, where Vincent Jada is a fan, get 6,298). And the “rather soulless, echoing dome that is Stadium MK” is one of the most comfortable stadiums in the country — better than some Premier League grounds! And it obviously impressed some people with real sporting credentials because it will be hosting some of the Rugby World Cup games next year.

Franchise FC were granted the move on the back of a very successful PR campaign about ‘saving’ WFC, while furthering a supermarket construction in a new town. There was a promise of Premier League football under the Wimbledon name with the Wimbledon badge and Wimbledon colours.

What had happened since is embarrassing for those involved. A level lower than when the move was sanctioned (and Wimbledon FC died) with pitiful crowds, a rebranding that went against the FA agreement, propped up by free tickets and away fans. Comparison with Wimbledon is misleading at best – we never pretended to be anything other than a small club who had spectacularly overachieved in reaching the FL and PL from non league. Reminds me of another club, and it’s not one that’s based in Milton Keynes.

Brillliant comparison. Why not start in 2002, comparing a frenzied franchise aiming for the EPL against a bunch of supporters who were told that a Wimbledon Town was not in the wider interests if football? We’ve made it back into the League, whereas you’ve achieved nothing. Relegation for you on the other hand would mean a little bit more to you than it would to us. We would also still own our club. AFC Kingston? Brilliant. Steal that one fromHampton and Richmond? Think we are trying to do something about that one: WHEN we go home, wherever in Wimbledon and whenever that may be, then we’re done. Got our League place back – yes. Played you as equals – yes. Go home – the last one, then we’re done. At that point, even if we went bust, I’d say “oh well, job done, point made ” Beating you first time, if and when it finally happens – meh. Oh yes, I forgot – Franchise ceasing to exist: still looking forward to that.

Wow. Doesn’t this just say it all about Franchise customers? This is exactly the reason I continue to call them customers, because when you’re more bothered about how comfy the seats are than what’s going on on the pitch, well, you sure aren’t a fan.

Regarding their attendances. A friend of mine who works in MK informed me the fact that to try and buy their support, the PONGS sold season tickets as. Buy one. Get one free. Yes. BOGOF. With kids getting in free also, exactly what percentage of the attendance has actually paid to watch the Plastics.

The one big point also that nobody has touched on is the fact that a big majority of football supporters in that area travel the 20 minutes up the M1 to the again rising big club in the area LUTON TOWN. The PONGS will never be able to achieve anything till Luton die. Something the FA and football league tried to do in 2009, hoping that if Luton Town die they’ll go and watch Franchise FC. ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS YOU PLASTIC’s out there. A plan to move Luton Town to MK in 1982 was treated with the discust it deserved. AFC Wimbledon and Luton have a close bond with each other over the thought of Plastic FC.

The milton keynes football project still fails. My company used to get as many comps as it wanted, and we couldnt give them away. Most would end up in the bin. Simple mathematics shows theres little revenue from match tickets each year. In response to Digger, he fails to understand that mk might have lots of football fans, but they dont follow the project. Nobody has a real attachment to the place, let alone its football. Its largely a soulless place because its not a traditional walk in town centre. Its a car park with retail units. It feels still to modern to warm to. I’d imagine this Digger character is either on the payroll of the club, or a self appointed bore. Mk project still has a way to satisfy the football fraternity; publicly apologise, rebrand as mkfc and you might start to attract serious investment. Nobody wants to attach themselves to something with a criminal past.

Franchise must drop the Dons next. Until they do they will always be a joke and of course associated with stealing a club. What the Franchise dont seem to realise is that this name is actually holding them back

English football is all about history and tradition and with MK being built off the back of another teams history and tradition it’s just not right. Football in this country shouldn’t be American-ised with franchising developing but sadly that’s what happened with MK Dons’ formation. In the country where football was born and was always about the place you were from, a team like MK Dons is hard to stomach. They simply don’t represent what English football is all about. It’s said all the time but it really is this simple – if only people backed MK’s non-league sides that were there or Winkelman formed his own club and did an AFC Wimbledon and climb up the leagues. Why couldn’t he have done that? It’s a club English football supporters, in the whole, will never be able to fully respect whatever they do or don’t achieve.

One point Russell seems to gloss over when he mentions attendances, AFC Kingston (poor, very poor) can at the minute cater for around 900 away fans, MK can accomodate around 10000 as Wolves fans proved, take the away fans & freebies of MK attendances then match them with Wimbledon & see where we are.

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About Natter Football

Natter Football is a fan-friendly site that covers all aspects of the beautiful game with a dash of comical value. From hilarious videos to hysterical rants, we aim to keep you needy football fans wholly satisfied.

Keen to send in any material that might just tickle our fancy? We accept (clean) photos, videos, clips and articles!