Comments on: I Call It Murderhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/
a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justiceSat, 27 Sep 2014 17:28:19 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1.1By: bozhhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64370
Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:04:02 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64370Lichen, yes,
i wrote above post be cause ur post prodded me into that tyupe of thinking! danke
]]>By: lichenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64369
Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:32:49 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64369I agree, bozh; and that was largely my original point. We allow politicians, soldiers, and police to behave the same way, or thousands times worse than serial killers on the street do. Just like we allow little children to be tortured by their parents through corporal punishment, verbal, physical, and sexual abuse and do nothing to protect them or sanction the parents, but then expect these people to magically turn into nicer human beings. No, indeed–the elites are the real criminal minds, and so are those of most parents, teachers, who employ cruelty and hatred against children. As Cynthia said, murder is murder.
]]>By: bozhhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64366
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64366Ok now! Nobody get mad at me! Or better yet don’t read what bozhidarevski writes!
For one thing my diction, grammar, sintax, spelling, etc. is often almost bad.
I don’t do that to irk the well-educated. Remember, i finished last in my class; so take it easy on the old man!

Now, some grit for u! How ab the show called “criminal minds? Well, i think that the scribes of that show are selling us snake oil.Why i say that?
Well, they never profile the biggest criminal minds such as kings, dukes, lords,ceos, bankers, boyars, aghas, beys, amirs, earls.
Not only that, but they do not study how once innocent children that kings, et al once were, became the greatest criminal minds.

How do i know [know, yes! Not believe!] that ‘nobility’ are much greater criminals than berkowiz, dahmler, jack the ripper, et al?
Well, one can only get rich or super rich by robbing peasants. Forget ab doing well if u work honestly; one gets rich only by deceiving- and legally to boot.
Does one think that we haven’t lived in lawless societies for the last several k yrs?
All US laws were written by the ogerish THEM against meekish US. These ‘laws’ led us to ca 100k wars, slavery, serfdom, imprisonment, torture, poverty for many, wealth for few, abuse, exploitation, etc.

Berkowitz and other small criminal minds are insane; thus, unable to exploit, abuse,cheat, lie or wage wars. But the unsane criminal minds do that and with great pride as well.
We shldn’t call jefferson, adams, roosevelt, clinton, bush, BHO, et al insane; that wld amount to an insult to the really insane people.
Btw, sartre was wrong when he said that people are hell. I emend that by asssserting that some people are hell on earth!
I thank my devil for telling me this. Now i give u my promise that u’ll [not ever] hear from me again! tnx

I disagree, the elites don’t give a shit if you protest. It is only when there is violence in the background, that threatens to come to their door that caused them to relent. Of course they won’t negotiate with the rabble, they then will look for the “peaceful” ones to talk. They go to the lesser of two evils.

When MLK went off where there was no support of radicals or militants–Vietnam and Trash workers, he became dispensable. That’s when James Earl Ray shot him. I’m telling you that the best way to reform would be for the masses to go on an arson binge, burn the houses of the wealthy. They love materials, take their material away. Let them fight us directly.

Lichen, you don’t pay attention to their arguments. They believe in might makes right. They have the guns. If we ever get the numbers we win. But, we are too busy, broke and complacent to really raise a ruckus. If you really want something, you have to fight for it.

You may disagree, but you listen to peaceniks. You need to listen to the elites, they will cordon you off and let you protest yourself hoarse. We start to truly threaten them, they will relent.

Read the Declaration of Independence. It says people won’t rise up for transient and light grievances. But, once those grievances amount to a usurpation of the social contract, once the people find themselves under the yoke of tyranny, it is our right, nay our duty to fight those tyrants and oppressors. Those are the words of Jefferson. They indict us in the eyes of foreigners under our boot and ourselves, wincing under the boot of monopoly and collusion.

]]>By: Deadbeathttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64359
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:19:51 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64359I don’t think it’s and either/or matter. It took the Civil War to abolish slavery while “non-violence” ended Jim Crow. In South Africa it took an armed resistance movement along with a boycott to end apartheid. In Palestine clearly the Israeli government has responded with brutality against any non-violence resistance forcing the Palestinians to pick up arms for self defense and resistance.

It would appear that many fronts are needed. What really matters is how the oppressors choose to respond to resistance and revolution.

]]>By: lichenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64358
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:21:36 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64358Yes, if we join together in direct, radical nonviolent action, we can win; that is how the civil rights movement gathered pace and won it’s victories. But of course in an era when the elites talk about invading and bombing other countries in the name of democracy and women’s rights, many people lose sight of the fact that real social and political change in this country have not come from militias. I won’t be ‘getting to know’ arrogant violent losers who think they have a right to murder others once their overblown egos feel “treaded upon,” just like the IDF and US military at their “checkpoints” where they kill any Iraqi or Palestinean that moves.
]]>By: scotthttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64357
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:06:41 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64357Lichen, you’re wrong. I was against the concealed carry permit law that then Governor Bush was pushing here in Texas. My attitude was more in line with yours. However, I have to say that I was wrong.

I know many people who are really into guns. I am not one of them. I have a couple of shotguns, a 12 and 20 gauge. Do you know the difference between a rifle and a shotgun?

Further, ol Danny ain’t right either. Perhaps you missed it, but if you bring a gun to a police stand off, you’ll soon be facing armored vehicles. Samuel Colt didn’t level that playing field.

That said Lichen, you should learn to appreciate your libertarian gun toting neighbors. They are like rattlesnakes, which never strike unless you tread on them.

I don’t know if any Cracker would have listened to MLK if Malcolm X hadn’t been bringing up an army of fearless brothers willing to find justice by any means necessary. If you read “A People’s History of the United States” by Howard Zinn, who died just this week; you will read an account of history whereby the elite whites were ever worried about the blacks, poor whites and middle class all uniting.

There won’t be a big fight, if we ever get together the forces will stand down. Not that the police won’t kill a few citizens before they put down their guns.

]]>By: lichenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64355
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:30:40 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64355Yes, places with better gun control laws such as DC are safer (or were before congress tried to strip their laws); and the residents of these cities have appreciated it, as have those cities in foreign lands without guns where people can’t be swiftly, en masse killed on the street. And it really is pathetic that you didn’t understand my point was that no one should have guns–soldeirs, police, citizens, cia, presidents, or not; but I’m sure you can sit on your porch with a gun and ward off them darn feds when they come to perform the evil census to control ya’ll.

Let’s drum up the ignorant support for death machines and the reactionary statements that protect idiotic scumbags when they randomly murder their fellow human beings for spacious and non-reasons. The serial killer, the violent criminal, the despotic invader trying to control, is you. Thanks so much for joining a conversation you didn’t read through, understand, or even want to. Thankfully, there is a citizens movement in the world to stop violent, murderous, raping people like you.

]]>By: Danny Rayhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64353
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:29:37 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64353God did not make all men equal, Col. Samual Colt did. Properly armed a fourty kilo woman is a match for a hundred kilo rapist. or if you wish Armed you are the equal of the goverment, unarmed you are a serf.
]]>By: Melissahttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64352
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:21:07 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64352Yes, Danny Ray,

And how ’bout the disarmament of the Armenian people immediately preceding the genocide of Armenians?

Or the disarmament of Chinese and the tens of millions that Mao cleansed?

Or the swords turned to plowshares followed shortly by the violent deaths of millions in old U.S.S.R?

And Hitler, didn’t he do something similar?

Violent people do violent things to fellow human beings, but never on the scale that governments sponsor violence upon their people.

Involuntary disarmament is a very bad omen for societies. Governments that want a complete monopoly on arms are not working for peace, they are working to enslave and terrorize the humans they leave completely defenseless.

I don’t like knowing that criminals use handguns on innocent people, either. But I am completely opposed to governments not allowing non-criminals to defend themselves.

Removing handguns won’t solve the systemic issues of why we create criminals. In my city angry, violent kids are stabbing each other on school buses with pencils. Can’t see banning pencils in our city, though.

Wage peace, but don’t fall for the gun ban that only applies to citizens.

-Melissa-

]]>By: Danny Rayhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64350
Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:00:37 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64350Really safe places that have banned handguns are Boston, Mass, Chicago, Il, and Washington DC. not to mention the really safe international places where you can’t have a hand gun like Belfast Ir, Anywhere in England or Lebanon, and not to mention Lagos Nigeria.
]]>By: kalidashttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64348
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:05:38 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64348Wow!
I can’t argue with that!
]]>By: lichenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64347
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:50:27 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64347Comparable places which have banned guns (or simply never started them) are much safer, with less violent crime, less murder. And indeed, it is unfortunate that the billions of people wrongly killed by handguns can’t give you their opinion about it.
]]>By: bozhhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64345
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:53:41 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64345This simplicity may throw some light on how we became to behave as we do now or even since at the latest 10k yrs.
For sanity sake and an enlightenment, let us assume that 50k yrs ago we lived in a more or less idyllicly structured groups of people.
World pop being around less than, let’s say 5 mn people living in clans of 200 to 1 k people.
Let’s further assume that in order to survive and increase in numbers we had to live in a society where everybody was equally valued.
Then, let us say, 15 k yrs ago, some people started teaching people that that was wrong way to go; we needed to compete; needing to let the strongest-wiser accumulate more wealth and power.
Convincing people that some of them are less valuable and needed leadership may have taken millennia.

However, one now can see with naked eye what that kind of social order had produced-caused: slavery, torture, exploitation, at least a mn wars, serfdom, ‘nobilty’, hobos, wife beating, rape, pedophile, anger, hatred, cults, priests, pols.

So why not change such inhumane structure with any whatever, but preferably a more or much more egalitarian one, that wld not wage wars but wld spend oodles of money on study of socalled criminal minds and all aberrant behavior.
Alas, high criminal minds [not the low ones] wld scream in murder even ab what i just wrote let alone begn to set up an humane society.

There is a show on tv ab ‘profiling’ criminal minds. But, of course, the ‘profilers’ [read snake oil salespeople] shun the study or profiling the causative factors in becoming a ‘criminal’ mind.

Why? Such a study wld quickly reveal that the greatest factor in all ills that befall us is wickedness of present structure of society. And so evasion of the sane approach.
How can people miss the obvious? More ab that some other time. By all means let’s also study why we cannot see what can be seen with a naked eye and why we evaluate brilliant-feel good talk as meaningful?
tnx

]]>By: kalidashttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64341
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:02:23 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64341That’s better.
You know I agree with you on the big picture and certainly as pertains to the brutal state enforcer types, whether civil or military.
To condone violence or maximize it as a tool is anti human and offensive to every sense of decency.

But, once again, “much of the time” sure isn’t much consolation to those 20,000 people who can’t offer their opinions anymore, neither to the people who love them, the people to whom the misery of the undeterred violence still hurts.

Not to sound NRA-ish, but the truth is the truth and the truth is there would be 50,000 or even more murdered if not for the deterrent of, as some call it, “instant karma.”

]]>By: lichenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64338
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:30:48 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64338Well Kalidas, you can defend yourself and others much of the time without pulling out a machine gun, or a taser. I think often times pulling out a deadly weapon becomes a philosophy for people’s lives, overruling any attempt to campaign for social justice or just talk. I have been in dangerous situations too, but my ability to defuse and my lack of any violent inclination myself has prevented escalation. In the sense of the military and the police, which was my main focus, these institutions protect the status quo with deadly force, and in many unethical situations.

I certainly do stand by my point that every single human the US military has killed in the war on terror has been a murder–and the fact that they are supposedly staying in Afganistan and Iraq to “train” the already highly corrupt, oppressive police forces in those two countries (who are put in place to hold up the puppet governments and prevent a revolt at the crimes that US/Nato have committed there) is very telling. I certainly don’t support the practice of killing someone because you thought they were going to steal your tv, either.

]]>By: kalidashttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64337
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:20:33 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64337More sophistry, but I realize your intense angst at the human devolution occurring as the root cause of your disconnect, and I understand.

Yet, to call the approx. 20,000 human beings murdered in the US last year and every year, “abstract,” is quite honestly sad and pitiable.

Hopefully you’ll never be in a position to either act or not act in defense of an innocent person being threatened with death.
Believe it or not, people have actually confronted death in defense of animals. I have, and it sure wasn’t philosophy class or a satyagraha moment.
Neither was it abstract.
In the end the threat of violence indeed prevented violence. Whew…

Also, I guess you didn’t notice my completely open and honest, as opposed to “underlying,” comment as to the purpose of violence. (to defeat violence)

There are some things which are bigger than us, lichen.
Bigger than you and bigger than me.

]]>By: lichenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64336
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:49:55 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64336Kalidas, your claim of supposed “real world” situations is an entirely abstract one in which you reveal your underlying approval of violence, oppression, and murder. You are disgusting if you own a gun, and yes, there are nonviolent and social change ways and means to deal with everything. Cops and soldeirs are serial killers; prison is a crime in itself.
]]>By: bobohttp://dissidentvoice.org/2010/02/i-call-it-murder/#comment-64335
Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:18:32 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=14094#comment-64335commoner3 said: