When the Shang Ji first came out, BTS was a modifier to the hacker's WIP, so the Shang Ji was effectively wearing ODD against hackers. It was also slightly faster (only in Move-Move orders) than the standard ARM4 HI. Today, those effects are covered under the Deflector L2 and Kinematica L2 rules (though that changes where the speed happens from Active Turn to Reactive Turn).

I really wish that the Shang Ji had been bumped up to Crane levels or close to it. Give them Deflector L2 and Kinematica L2 on every profile, and either drop their CC down to 15 or 16 or up to 20-21. I'd also give the Shang Ji Tactical Awareness on every profile, since the people getting Shang Ji suits are the best soldiers in the Invincible Army. I'd also consider adding NCO and LT2 options, though I think those should not have TacAware.

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Oh I remember when it first came out and I loved him. I like the idea of them all getting deflector. Maybe 1 on some and 2 on others. I also thought Total Immunity but that might be over doing it.

But is there a need in the sectorial for a superior linkable heavy infantry to the zuyong? Or indeed, is there room for it?

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Well, with the Zuyong having TacAwareness profiles, there's not much reason to take a Shang Ji.

I can see room for another high-quality profile comparable to the Hac Tao. I can see room for a linkable hero-style unit as well, but that doesn't really mesh with the current Shang-Ji fluff naming them veteran zuyong. I can also see a need and room for a buffed up light infantry with foam blocks duct taped on and the words "heavy infantry" written in crayon on the chest.

Doing this one better; the Haidao has two kombat profiles (Combi and Red Fury) that I don't think will see the lime light at all due to Engineer and KHD being in really high demand. Moving these roles off onto the Làbǐ Invincible means Haidao is the special ops while the Làbǐ takes care of the more upfront door-kicking side of the forces on loan from the marines.
After all, if you're going to invent a new lower level of HI, why not lean into it?

Zuyongs have Number 2 combi profile for 10pts less why would you ever take the Shang Ji for that?

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I imagine for the flamethrower and BTS. Would be absolutely worth having against my regular opponent, who is very fond of surprise Proxy MK2 Assault Hackers or Viral Combis in Tohaa Triads. Still quite situational.

I imagine for the flamethrower and BTS. Would be absolutely worth having against my regular opponent, who is very fond of surprise Proxy MK2 Assault Hackers or Viral Combis in Tohaa Triads. Still quite situational.

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The Number 2 is never going to be your pointman. That's the whole point of the number 2 profile, it never fights because if it's link lead and dies your link breaks. That's like making a Chain of Command Lieutenant profile and then sending it out to fight on the frontline... None of that makes any sense.

I imagine for the flamethrower and BTS. Would be absolutely worth having against my regular opponent, who is very fond of surprise Proxy MK2 Assault Hackers or Viral Combis in Tohaa Triads. Still quite situational.

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The BTS isn't that important if the Number 2 isn't the Link Leader or a Hacker of some kind. Main targets for link breaking at the Leader and defensive Hackers - the Number 2 Shang Ji and Zuyong are not either of those.

The LFT is a thing, but the cost to include it is pretty high considering. Especially since Tai Sheng packs a Chain Colt too...

The Number 2 is never going to be your pointman. That's the whole point of the number 2 profile, it never fights because if it's link lead and dies your link breaks. That's like making a Chain of Command Lieutenant profile and then sending it out to fight on the frontline... None of that makes any sense.

You want Number2 profiles to be as barebones and cheap as possible.

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It's the cost of a Chaiyi and some change to make the upgrade. It's not something I'd do personally, but there's arguments for using it against midfield camo or if your opponent really loves dumping E/M templates over your links. Tai is good for sure, adds a lot more variety, but if I could be sure the local meta was ALEPH all the way down the Shang Ji might get a look-in for burning TO Camo, tanking Nanopulsers and Assault Hacking and killing NWI midfielders, though I would personally use the Tinbot/Tac Aware Shang Ji instead of No. 2 for that job. Honestly I just don't use No.2 at all, seems like a waste if the link's already being overrun.

For anti-Camo/Camo burning, I think a Lu Duan or Weibing works better, the latter especially if you're packing in a Chaiyi or two for some extra Sniffers. For ODD, like ALEPH, the Weibing can also Triangulated Fire, which isn't necessarily amazing but it's not bad either! Plus we do have the Haidao MSV2 MSR, which isn't too shabby.

Shang Ji is just too expensive for what it brings, which is a niche tool. LFTs are nice, but not at 40pts a pop!

You could try using a Shang Ji TA Spit in a Zhanshi Core, probably backed up by a MSR Haidao. You get a beatstick with BS 13, PH 14, ARM 4, BTS 6 and an ARO/long gunner with MSV2, BS 13, ARM 3 in a 5 man link for 115 points.

I think it's viable, really. You don't get the chance to add a NCO to the link but the Red Fury Mowang is a nice choice to dump your two Lt. orders.

You could try using a Shang Ji TA Spit in a Zhanshi Core, probably backed up by a MSR Haidao. You get a beatstick with BS 13, PH 14, ARM 4, BTS 6 and an ARO/long gunner with MSV2, BS 13, ARM 3 in a 5 man link for 115 points.

I think it's viable, really. You don't get the chance to add a NCO to the link but the Red Fury Mowang is a nice choice to dump your two Lt. orders.

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Yeah, it's about like sticking a Domaru Spitfire into a Keisotsu Core in JSA or an ORC HMG into a Fusilier core in Varuna.

Five games into IA. Three have had Shang Ji haris in various forms. One had a number 2 Shang Ji in a Zuyong core. (Because I was at 10 orders and had exactly enough points to upgrade the Zuyong number 2 to the Shang.) And one didn't use Shang Ji at all. The only time I felt they were a waste was the third game against TAK. (Other four games were 2 TAK, VIRD and OSS.)

And I think that was more because after burning midfield Camo nests in the first two games. My opponent opted for a bare midfield of only Pavel and a scout. Because the Shang Ji were sweeping midfield. Tanking deployables and lighting up markers. Because of this. They didn't get a reason to really advance and light things up. (Took a Shang Spitfire, Shang Haris for the LFT. And a FTO pang.)

And I feel they make good datatrackers if the Mowang or Hulang aren't in the list.

Five games into IA. Three have had Shang Ji haris in various forms. One had a number 2 Shang Ji in a Zuyong core. (Because I was at 10 orders and had exactly enough points to upgrade the Zuyong number 2 to the Shang.) And one didn't use Shang Ji at all. The only time I felt they were a waste was the third game against TAK. (Other four games were 2 TAK, VIRD and OSS.)

And I think that was more because after burning midfield Camo nests in the first two games. My opponent opted for a bare midfield of only Pavel and a scout. Because the Shang Ji were sweeping midfield. Tanking deployables and lighting up markers. Because of this. They didn't get a reason to really advance and light things up. (Took a Shang Spitfire, Shang Haris for the LFT. And a FTO pang.)

And I feel they make good datatrackers if the Mowang or Hulang aren't in the list.

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I feel like people really underestimate side DTWs, Light Flamethrowers in particular. They're what makes Wildcats so much better than Bolts and Tomcats so lovely. I would certainly include a Shang Ji just for the Light Flamethrower in a link if I could and now I wonder if I should include one in the Christmas gift for my lovely Yu Jing girl.

I feel like people really underestimate side DTWs, Light Flamethrowers in particular. They're what makes Wildcats so much better than Bolts and Tomcats so lovely. I would certainly include a Shang Ji just for the Light Flamethrower in a link if I could and now I wonder if I should include one in the Christmas gift for my lovely Yu Jing girl.

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Don't, on the basis of the old model sculpt isn't good and looks bad by current standards and it's expected they'll get a resculpt. Get your girlfriend the resculpt when it comes out.

Five games into IA. Three have had Shang Ji haris in various forms. One had a number 2 Shang Ji in a Zuyong core. (Because I was at 10 orders and had exactly enough points to upgrade the Zuyong number 2 to the Shang.) And one didn't use Shang Ji at all. The only time I felt they were a waste was the third game against TAK. (Other four games were 2 TAK, VIRD and OSS.)

And I think that was more because after burning midfield Camo nests in the first two games. My opponent opted for a bare midfield of only Pavel and a scout. Because the Shang Ji were sweeping midfield. Tanking deployables and lighting up markers. Because of this. They didn't get a reason to really advance and light things up. (Took a Shang Spitfire, Shang Haris for the LFT. And a FTO pang.)

And I feel they make good datatrackers if the Mowang or Hulang aren't in the list.

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Your Shang Ji wasn't useless in that third game. Even if he does nothing, if he forces your opponent not to leverage a potential midfield advantage, thats already an awesome win. HI with flamers are awesome.

I think the Shang Ji is best in a Zhanshi link with a heavy rocket launcher. You get a durable HI with full link bonuses for a strong long range ARO and he can be healed by a doctor. Pretty good value for his points.

I feel like people really underestimate side DTWs, Light Flamethrowers in particular. They're what makes Wildcats so much better than Bolts and Tomcats so lovely. I would certainly include a Shang Ji just for the Light Flamethrower in a link if I could and now I wonder if I should include one in the Christmas gift for my lovely Yu Jing girl.

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I'll just put this one out there, but the reason people are so down on Bolts is their insane cost compared to performance, and that's mostly down to paying a slight premium on Dropbears and an extreme premium on Light Shotgun for models already armed with an adequate CQC weapon.

I don't consider the flamethrower to be under-rated in Shang-Ji, it's above all else why I usually consider them while constructing lists, but the fact of the matter is the tripple-whammy of stat scaling otherwise makes those flamethrowers far too pricey. It's very much a matter of both units being 30+ which puts them in direct competition with each other, and since that your other stat increases that actually are the pricey ones are so situational, means that those flamethrowers effectively cost 5 or more points more to upgrade to.
The comparison to Bolts (while also this forum's potentially most beaten horse) fails to take into account is that it's not the Zuyong that's got the flamethrower and the Wildcats is absolutely the Zuyong to the Shang-Ji's Bolts.

I don't consider the flamethrower to be under-rated in Shang-Ji, it's above all else why I usually consider them while constructing lists, but the fact of the matter is the tripple-whammy of stat scaling otherwise makes those flamethrowers far too pricey. It's very much a matter of both units being 30+ which puts them in direct competition with each other, and since that your other stat increases that actually are the pricey ones are so situational, means that those flamethrowers effectively cost 5 or more points more to upgrade to.

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This.

The LFT is a nice tool, but the package cost of the Shang Ji all told is too high. A Zuyong with a 10pt LFT isn't a worthwhile investment.