New GOP tax plan eliminates deductions for state and local taxes

Despite fierce opposition from high-tax states when the idea was first floated, the Trump administration is pushing ahead with the repeal, which would remove state and local income and property taxes as deductions on federal returns.

The perk — first enacted with the income tax in 1913 — is most heavily used in coastal, bluer states that include New York, California, New Jersey and Connecticut.

Repealing it would increase federal revenue by $1.3 trillion over the decade, according to the Tax Policy Center.

But it would also slam high-income New Yorkers.

Manhattan leads the way nationally in taking the deduction, with residents writing off an average of $24,898 on their federal returns.

Deductions would remain for mortgage interest and charitable contributions.

Also, the standard deduction would nearly double to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for married couples.

"It's a Free Country."
"They hate us for our Freedoms."
"The troops are protecting your Freedom."

I haven't let the Fed. steal from me for so long now I can't remember when I last filed. I don't give a $#@! what they do. Apathy has returned full force.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

It matters little what is in Trump's plan, as there will be fierce negotiations within the House, within the Senate, and likely within the Conference Committee. It can truly be said that the two things that you really don't want to see how they are made are sausage and tax legislation.

We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
Erwin N. Griswold

Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
Anonymous

Despite fierce opposition from high-tax states when the idea was first floated, the Trump administration is pushing ahead with the repeal, which would remove state and local income and property taxes as deductions on federal returns.

The perk — first enacted with the income tax in 1913 — is most heavily used in coastal, bluer states that include New York, California, New Jersey and Connecticut.

Repealing it would increase federal revenue by $1.3 trillion over the decade, according to the Tax Policy Center.

But it would also slam high-income New Yorkers.

Manhattan leads the way nationally in taking the deduction, with residents writing off an average of $24,898 on their federal returns.

Deductions would remain for mortgage interest and charitable contributions.

Also, the standard deduction would nearly double to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for married couples.

The standard deduction will be increased under his plan, but individual exemptions will be taken away which will offset much of that. A single person could save $50 to $100 a year (gaining $6,000 in the standard deduction but losing $4500 for the personal exemption- reducing his taxable income by $1500) but a family of four could end up paying $1000 to $1500 a year more. It will also be further eroded by raising the rate applied to the lowest tax bracket from 10% to 12%.

Saying it is for the middle class is a way to sell it to the public. Details say little actually goes to the middle class.

As Rand Paul notes, revenue neutral tax cuts are not really tax cuts- they are tax "shifts". To be revenue neutral, you have to raise taxes on somebody to pay for lowering the taxes on somebody else. If they are reducing corporate taxes and want to be revenue neutral, individual taxes must be raised. They also claim that cuts will be offset by economic growth- and they assume that the economy will grow at the rate of six percent a year- a figure nearly all economists say is impossible. 1984 is the only time in at least 50 years we have seen that occur.

“These tax cuts are significant,” the president said during a speech at the Farm Bureau Building in Indianapolis. “There’s never been tax cuts like we’re talking about.”

Republicans earlier Wednesday released the framework of their plan that was hammered out by House and Senate lawmakers in coordination with the Trump administration. Trump used his speech in Indiana, in part, to begin applying public pressure on lawmakers -- especially Democrats -- to get on board.

“Call your congressman. Call your senators,” Trump said. “Let them know you’re watching, let them know you’re waiting. Tell them that today is the day for decision. That now is the time to heal this self-inflicted economic wound.”

He added, “If you demand it, the politicians will listen.”

As part of his effort to woo the other side, Trump invited Indiana Democratic Sen. Joe Donnelly to fly with him on Air Force One. But the president also warned with a smile during the speech that if Donnelly doesn’t support the plan, “We will come here, we will campaign against him like you wouldn't believe."

The plan would simplify the tax system, cut rates and nearly double the standard deduction used by most Americans. Trump pitched it as the biggest tax cut in U.S. history.

“Over the next few months, the House and Senate will build on this framework and produce legislation that will deliver more jobs, higher pay and lower taxes for middle-class families, for the working man and woman, and for businesses of all sizes,” the president said.

Getting any substantial Democratic support could be a heavy lift. Already, party leaders were panning the proposal, with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., saying in a statement: "Republicans’ tax framework is not tax reform, it is a framework that gives away the store to the wealthiest, while sticking the middle class with the bill."

The stakes are high, after Republicans a day earlier scrapped their latest effort to repeal and replace ObamaCare.

During his speech, the president discussed the health care effort, claiming Republicans have the votes on the Graham-Cassidy health care legislation. But, in an apparent reference to Mississippi Republican Sen. Thad Cochran, Trump said one “yes vote” is home sick and unavailable to vote.

“We have a wonderful senator, a great, great senator, who is a yes vote,” Trump said. “But he’s home recovering from a pretty tough situation.”

Citing the Senate process called “budget reconciliation,” which gives Republicans until Friday to pass health care legislation without a filibuster threat, the president said they will wait a few months before being able to vote on it.

Now, the legislative focus shifts to tax reform, which Trump has been eager to tackle since taking office.

“The current tax system is a colossal barrier standing in the way of America’s economic comeback, because it can be far greater than it’s ever been,” Trump said.
The plan, as outlined in the framework, nearly doubles the standard deduction to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for families. This basically increases the amount of personal income that is tax-free.

The plan also collapses the number of personal tax brackets from seven to three. By simplifying the system, most Americans would be able to file their taxes on a postcard, the plan says.

The individual tax rates would be 12 percent, 25 percent and 35 percent -- and the plan recommends a surcharge for the very wealthy. But it does not set the income levels at which the rates would apply, so it's unclear just how much of a tax change there might be for a typical family.

Deductions for mortgage interest and charitable giving would remain, but the plan seeks to end most other itemized deductions that can reduce how much affluent families pay.

The plan would seek to help families by calling for an increased child tax credit and opening it to families with higher incomes. The credit currently is $1,000 per child. Also proposed is a new tax credit of $500 to help pay for the care of the elderly and the sick who are claimed as dependents by the taxpayer.

The estate tax -- which is paid by those with multimillion-inheritances -- would be eliminated, a boon for wealthy individuals who inherit businesses, investments and real estate.

Corporations, meanwhile, would see their top tax rate cut from 35 percent to 20 percent.

New benefits would be given to firms in which the profits double as the owners' personal income. They would pay at a 25 percent rate, down from 39.6 percent.

As Rand Paul notes, revenue neutral tax cuts are not really tax cuts- they are tax "shifts". To be revenue neutral, you have to raise taxes on somebody to pay for lowering the taxes on somebody else.

or cut spending

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

"Revenue neutral" means you are still taking in the same revenues (tax dollars). Budget neutral means they can be offset by spending cuts which they won't do. Yeah, that would be good. But cutting spending involves making tough choices which Congress wants to avoid. Cutting taxes sounds great to voters. Much easier to sell.

Hurt the other side. Take resources from them. Increase the well-being of your own side. Do everything you can to rob the bad side of wealth.

The high-tax states are places like? Hawaii. New York. California. Massachusetts. In short: every major concentration of crazed, deranged leftists third-worldists in the country. The bad guys.

So, hit them harder and meanwhile ease up on robbing the Midwest? Let the leftist bad guys fund the government and let the down-home fly-over folks off the hook?

Sounds good to me.

The whole plan is awesome, actually. Really good. It would be an improvement to the tax code on an almost inconceivable level! Better than Rand's plan, probably -- sorry, blasphemy, but it's true! Why do you think ZippyJuan hates it? What Zippyjuan hates cannot be all bad, guys. It is almost bound to be good. And indeed it is.

Hurt the other side. Take resources from them. Increase the well-being of your own side. Do everything you can to rob the bad side of wealth.

The high-tax states are places like? Hawaii. New York. California. Massachusetts. In short: every major concentration of crazed, deranged leftists third-worldists in the country. The bad guys.

So, hit them harder and meanwhile ease up on robbing the Midwest? Let the leftist bad guys fund the government and let the down-home fly-over folks off the hook?

Sounds good to me.

The whole plan is awesome, actually. Really good. It would be an improvement to the tax code on an almost inconceivable level! Better than Rand's plan, probably -- sorry, blasphemy, but it's true! Why do you think ZippyJuan hates it? What Zippyjuan hates cannot be all bad, guys. It is almost bound to be good. And indeed it is.

You seem to like the idea of paying taxes on the taxes you paid. Good for you. Actually it effects people in every state- not just "blue" ones. All the Red and purple ones too.

You are right- the Trump Tax Plan is about rewarding friends- and that isn't the middle class or you and me- despite claims he has made to the contrary. They take your deduction and give it to Goldman Sachs.

Despite fierce opposition from high-tax states when the idea was first floated, the Trump administration is pushing ahead with the repeal, which would remove state and local income and property taxes as deductions on federal returns.

The perk — first enacted with the income tax in 1913 — is most heavily used in coastal, bluer states that include New York, California, New Jersey and Connecticut.

Repealing it would increase federal revenue by $1.3 trillion over the decade, according to the Tax Policy Center.

But it would also slam high-income New Yorkers.

Manhattan leads the way nationally in taking the deduction, with residents writing off an average of $24,898 on their federal returns.

Deductions would remain for mortgage interest and charitable contributions.

Also, the standard deduction would nearly double to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for married couples.

Trump was in Indianapolis with our Dem senator ( who most likely will not be re elected ) today pitching this plan . I have not even read it but expect it to be like every other plan everyone has and raises taxes .

You seem to like the idea of paying taxes on the taxes you paid. Good for you. Actually it effects people in every state- not just "blue" ones. All the Red and purple ones too.

You are right- the Trump Tax Plan is about rewarding friends- and that isn't the middle class or you and me- despite claims he has made to the contrary. They take your deduction and give it to Goldman Sachs.

Wow. This certainly has Zip all fired up.

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

If Trump wants to do some constructive pre Nov $#@! get some cut spending bills passed in the house , make these senators vote on it. Then let the opponents use it against them if they vote no .

Don't hold your breath.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

Well he lives in a high tax state. Not being able to deduct his property and state income taxes off federal income is gonna hurt. I'm not too $#@!ing happy about it either; but with the standard deduction being doubled it will pretty much come out as no difference for me, maybe a slight increase. It will definitely help in my decision to move out of the state.

If you're talking about that "Revenue bills must originate in the House" thing, Obamacare proved that isn't really enforced any more.

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

Well he lives in a high tax state. Not being able to deduct his property and state income taxes off federal income is gonna hurt. I'm not too $#@!ing happy about it either; but with the standard deduction being doubled it will pretty much come out as no difference for me, maybe a slight increase. It will definitely help in my decision to move out of the state.

That's kinda how it all started. And here we are.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

I'd complain so much less about this goddam government if I wasnt forced to pay into it.

It's not so much about having balls as it is knowing that this life is ephemeral. I really don't have much to fear.

Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

Hurt the other side. Take resources from them. Increase the well-being of your own side. Do everything you can to rob the bad side of wealth.

The high-tax states are places like? Hawaii. New York. California. Massachusetts. In short: every major concentration of crazed, deranged leftists third-worldists in the country. The bad guys.

So, hit them harder and meanwhile ease up on robbing the Midwest? Let the leftist bad guys fund the government and let the down-home fly-over folks off the hook?

Sounds good to me.

The whole plan is awesome, actually. Really good. It would be an improvement to the tax code on an almost inconceivable level! Better than Rand's plan, probably -- sorry, blasphemy, but it's true! Why do you think ZippyJuan hates it? What Zippyjuan hates cannot be all bad, guys. It is almost bound to be good. And indeed it is.

Provoke CALExit etc. seems to be the plan.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.