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Beads

I have a mala that my dad brought me from India, made of teak. I used it a lot when I began in Yoga, and I really enjoyed the practice of chanting out loud or silently with the beads. Now, since I have been focusing on Buddhism, my beads are neglected. I know that they are used in Buddhist practice, but I don't know how they might fit in with our practice at Treeleaf. Do we use beads for anything? I know I've seen Taigu wearing some on his wrist.

I don't like to wear mine unless I am using them-- I don't like being a "spiritual poser." :P But I would like to use and wear them, if there is a recommended practice or symbolism within this sangha.

Re: Beads

I like to use my mala for chants every now and then. And I also like to wear them around my wrist. Not as a spiritual poser, but as a reminder of our practice. Another version on the kesa. An extension on the body of the buddha, your body. For me, having a mala handy is a good way to remind me about where exactly I am, in the present moment.

A Mala doesn't have to be used only for chanting, or formal practice. Instead it can be the bridge between formal sitting and the rest of our lives. The Mala can keep reminding us of our intentions, our efforts, our practice, and our place in the world.

A mala can be simply some beads, or can be a complete representation of the Buddha's path. Just like Shinkantaza can be a dead body on a round cushion, or the complete manifestation of complete enlightenment. All depends on how one wishes to view it...

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Seiryu

I like to use my mala for chants every now and then. And I also like to wear them around my wrist. Not as a spiritual poser, but as a reminder of our practice. Another version on the kesa. An extension on the body of the buddha, your body. For me, having a mala handy is a good way to remind me about where exactly I am, in the present moment.

A Mala doesn't have to be used only for chanting, or formal practice. Instead it can be the bridge between formal sitting and the rest of our lives. The Mala can keep reminding us of our intentions, our efforts, our practice, and our place in the world.

A mala can be simply some beads, or can be a complete representation of the Buddha's path. Just like Shinkantaza can be a dead body on a round cushion, or the complete manifestation of complete enlightenment. All depends on how one wishes to view it...

Re: Beads

Same here as Seiryu. I feel they are a constant reminder of my practice. They come with the added benefit of associating myself as a Buddhist. I have had several opportunities to talk about my practice with other Buddhists and hear about theirs. Especially Tibetan Buddhist I seem to meet a lot. Quite nice.

Re: Beads

I used to wear my beads while working my old job at a health food store. It would start a lot of interesting conversations, that's for sure. Added benefit.

I like to chant Om Mani Padme Hum.

I used to chant Om Mani Padme Hum. I do enjoy that chant very much. I went on a weekend retreat quite a few years ago of about 30 people and most of us did not know each other. One of our meditations was to chant Om Mani Padme Hum together, well we sang it actually. At first, we all chanted quietly like we were nervous the person next to us would hear us. Then as we became more comfortable with each other and slowly let go of our insecurities, we started to sing louder and louder with each syllable. After a few minutes chanting and singing as a group, it felt and sounded like one voice instead just our own voice. Eventually we sang as loud as we could and when the chant meditation was coming to end, we slowly quieted to whisper and then to utter silence. We hardly new each other but you could really feel the connection between of all us as we chanted and then sat in silence together. It was a very beautiful and powerful experience. Since that day, I judge people much less and treat others with more compassion. It definitely had a profound effect on me and I think everyone else was touched the same way. However, simply being and connecting with others at a deeper level made that such a great experience, not chant itself. The chant was like the beads in the mala symbolizing our practice and how we are all connected in this world.

Re: Beads

Thanks for the story, Jodi. We can make strong connections with complete strangers while chanting, singing, or dancing, and I've been lucky enough to feel this at times. I haven't had the good fortune to chant with a bunch of people yet, but I have gone to concerts with similar intensity!

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Amelia

Thanks for the story, Jodi. We can make strong connections with complete strangers while chanting, singing, or dancing, and I've been lucky enough to feel this at times. I haven't had the good fortune to chant with a bunch of people yet, but I have gone to concerts with similar intensity!

There is chanting during the Zazenkai. Have you participated in Zazenkai yet? I have actually done only a couple of those so far. Even though I still need to follow along by reading the chant while I speak it, it is nice to chant again.

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Seiryu

I like to use my mala for chants every now and then. And I also like to wear them around my wrist. Not as a spiritual poser, but as a reminder of our practice. Another version on the kesa. An extension on the body of the buddha, your body. For me, having a mala handy is a good way to remind me about where exactly I am, in the present moment.

A Mala doesn't have to be used only for chanting, or formal practice. Instead it can be the bridge between formal sitting and the rest of our lives. The Mala can keep reminding us of our intentions, our efforts, our practice, and our place in the world.

A mala can be simply some beads, or can be a complete representation of the Buddha's path. Just like Shinkantaza can be a dead body on a round cushion, or the complete manifestation of complete enlightenment. All depends on how one wishes to view it...

Just some thoughts

Hi Seiryu,

I think this is lovely, and the Mala can be worn in this way as a reminder of Practice. I feel it much the same as a Crucifix worn by a Christian, or a Star of David by a Jew ... a reminder of something felt on the skin, or a subtle symbol to others of a shared Path.

The beads ... the very same beads, in fact ... crossed the Silk Road from the Catholic World to the Islamic World to the Indian/Buddhist world and back. The beads not only serve to "count" our place during a chant so that we keep track, but also the rolling of the beads on the sensitive nerve endings of the fingertips have been shown to have a stimulating and mesmerizing effect which can enhance the mesmerizing effect of the repetitive chant itself.

I do not use Mala (Juzu in Japanese) beads for ceremonies, but some traditional Zen ceremonies call for the priest to use them and hold them in the fingers while forming various esoteric Mudra (hand gestures considered in some circles of Buddhism to carry great power). That can be seen, for example, in the ceremony I posted here.

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Seiryu

I like to use my mala for chants every now and then. And I also like to wear them around my wrist. Not as a spiritual poser, but as a reminder of our practice. Another version on the kesa. An extension on the body of the buddha, your body. For me, having a mala handy is a good way to remind me about where exactly I am, in the present moment.

A Mala doesn't have to be used only for chanting, or formal practice. Instead it can be the bridge between formal sitting and the rest of our lives. The Mala can keep reminding us of our intentions, our efforts, our practice, and our place in the world.

A mala can be simply some beads, or can be a complete representation of the Buddha's path. Just like Shinkantaza can be a dead body on a round cushion, or the complete manifestation of complete enlightenment. All depends on how one wishes to view it...

Just some thoughts

"Another version on the kesa."
You know, I've never thought about it that way, but I think that's how it feels for me and was an excellent way to express it, Seiryu. I make malas, not for profit though I'll give them as gifts, but as practice. One bead at a time, very aware that while I'm working I'm putting whatever it is that I'm thinking/feeling/being into the mala. Also impermanence, interdependence and so on. Usually I work on just my own mala that I've had for quite a while, always changing it, tweaking it, trying to make it "The Perfect Mala"...but I sort of stopped and it's settled into what it is currently, which is perfect with flaws. Since I work in the food industry, I've had to give up on tassles (never was much good at making those ops: ) and ended up finding the most wonderful tiny little Ox bead to end it instead. The Ox and I have a long history together and a certain affinity :lol: and the entire thing is made of Ox-bone.

I only rarely chant, and that's the Heart Sutra Mantra, and that's only really when I'm particularly scattered all over the place, afraid or angry, and need to get back to my center and I sort of roll them in my fingers rather than use them to actually count the chants, making them more of a comforting presence than a religious device. It's become more a reminder of my practice that I can take off the cushion and into the world. Also when I wear it, there's this feeling of responsibility to make sure that since I'm wearing it I show my beliefs by my behaviors and actions. It's very difficult to lose my temper and go off in anger about something or at someone when people can see that I'm wearing a Buddhist symbol, even though I occasionally do, but then to make amends very quickly.

This guy - http://www.custommalashop.com/cms/ makes custom malas as part of his practice and now as part of his Right Livelihood. I've gotten a couple of them because manual labor tends to be hard on malas (which is another reason I started making my own. I needed a "tougher" mala :lol: ), but they're quite beautiful and I believe in supporting fellow Buddhist craftspeople.

"records of the third century Desert Mothers and Fathers indicate that they carried in their pockets a specified number of pebbles, which they dropped one by one on the ground as they said each of their prayers."

reminds me of Samuel Beckett's novel Molloy, where Molloy sucks on a number of stones as he transfers them from pocket to hand to mouth to pocket.

Re: Beads

Hi all,

Thank you for posting this Amelia as I had been curious too. I was given a juzu some years ago by the person who first told me about Treeleaf, but I haven't worn it much as she told me it needed to be restrung. Does anyone here know how I would do that or where I could have it done?

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by jodi_h

Originally Posted by Amelia

Thanks for the story, Jodi. We can make strong connections with complete strangers while chanting, singing, or dancing, and I've been lucky enough to feel this at times. I haven't had the good fortune to chant with a bunch of people yet, but I have gone to concerts with similar intensity!

There is chanting during the Zazenkai. Have you participated in Zazenkai yet?

Yes. However, though it is lovely, it is not the same as being there, with several people. It's just kind of me in my room-- but of course no less meaningful.

Originally Posted by kirkmc

"records of the third century Desert Mothers and Fathers indicate that they carried in their pockets a specified number of pebbles, which they dropped one by one on the ground as they said each of their prayers."

reminds me of Samuel Beckett's novel Molloy, where Molloy sucks on a number of stones as he transfers them from pocket to hand to mouth to pocket.

Thank you for posting this Amelia as I had been curious too. I was given a juzu some years ago by the person who first told me about Treeleaf, but I haven't worn it much as she told me it needed to be restrung. Does anyone here know how I would do that or where I could have it done?

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Dosho

Hi all,

I was given a juzu some years ago by the person who first told me about Treeleaf, but I haven't worn it much as she told me it needed to be restrung. Does anyone here know how I would do that or where I could have it done?

I use Chinese knotting cord. Very durable, strong, not likely to snap, and isn't as subject to rot. If you don't want to do it yourself, email Jason at the link I posted above. He does repairs.

Re: Beads

Hello,

I personally do not use Juzu in any significant way, although I find them aesthetically pleasing and feel that they can be a wonderful symbol of one's own inner commitment to the Buddhadharma. Once in a while in my practise I suddenly feel very devotional (probably my Catholic past) and I guess just grabbing my Juzu might be a natural reaciton (though I somehow never do). From my limited novice POV it seems very important to not do anything with a specific desire to gain something in this context. So when we sit, we just sit, when we bow, we just bow, when expressing your innate awakened nature through using a juzu once in a while, just do that (maybe....), just don't split heaven and Earth asunder through employing a means (juzu) to achieve a certain end (I want Bodhisattvas to bless me...or something).

You can build a temple with a blade of grass. Instantly. As long as you do not want to attain anything other than what "is" already.

Re: Beads

Re: Beads

Hans,
I really like what you wrote. I think you're right. Just as we shouldn't become attached to the objects on our altars, we shouldn't become attached to the mala/juzu or specific rituals associated with them.

My personal take: I made a mala a few years back in the supposed "Zen style", though I really don't know what that means or why they call it that. Anybody have any ideas? I normally put on when I'm sitting zazen, but as I don't do any chants that really need counting, it's mainly just a symbol, not a tool. I'm planning on wearing it for everyday of Ango as a reminder to be aware in every moment, since I haven't made a rakusu or a kesa.

Re: Beads

I've found over the years that I can keep time in without a clock by mindfully moving on to the next bead with each full breath if I wish to practice without checking the clock.

Hi Sydney,

You bring up great point about being able to keep track of time without the use of a clock. Incense were also used to keep time in Asia. Which includes keeping time for meditation. One such device for time keeping was called a Dragon Boat. It was a small metal incense holder with groves at every 15 minute mark. The incense(joss stick) was placed in the Dragon Boat horizontally. A silk tread with metal balls at the ends was placed on the incense stick at any of the grooves for the desired time increment. When the incense burned to the silk thread the metal balls would drop onto a metal "pan" to create a ringing sound to indicate the elapsed time.
There was another variation of this where the incense was spiral in shape and bells would be tied to it. When the proper amount of time had passed the bells would drop off making a ringing sound to signal specific time passing.

Re: Beads

I worked all weekend helping to rebuild the deck of my family's vacation cabin in Idyllwild, California. I also wore my juzu/ mala around my wrist the whole time, deciding that I would make a little exercise in reminding myself of practice whenever I see it/ remove it/ put it on. I have kind of formed a habit now of putting it on and taking it off very slowly, like kinhin, taking the small action as an opportunity to practice mindfulness of the beads, of my wrist, etc., reminding myself to make all actions in the same way as I put up slat after slat, or as I ran back and forth through hard rain trying to save the newly purchased lumber. Very good weekend.

I have also made it a reminder of my promise to commit to Ango and Jukai. That promise has brought me all sorts of self-doubt that is great practice!

Re: Beads

Today, for the first time, I used the mala while walking.

My late mother's best friend is in the hospital and not doing so well. So I decided to chant the Enmei Jukku Kannon Gyo 108 times during my walk. Worked out wonderfully, though my belly probably could have used a few more times around the mala.

Re: Beads

I made a mala this week out of some "goldstone" beads (goldstone is actually glass with copper in it), no special reason. Probably not very authentic as I had to use plastic "Stretch Magic" beading cord because the holes in the beads were so narrow, I couldn't get anything else to work! :lol:

Re: Beads

I have a set I wear all the time. The tassel broke off so I replaced it with a small medal with the syllable "Kan". Normally I use it for nembutsu recitation, but I will roll it in my fingers when I'm feeling stressed or just thinking.

Re: Beads

I wear a neck mala that I purchased. It's made of cedarwood and it has the characters that spell Kannon. I guess it could have some expletive, and I wouldn't know; I dont' read Kanji :mrgreen:

To echo Matt's question, do you use it for chanting?

I don't use mine for chanting; it's sort of a world acceptable Rakusu. I put my mala on the same way that Taigu Sensei instructs us on putting on the Rakusu. I put it to my forhead three times and say "Budda", "Dharma" and "Sangha". I kiss it then put it on.

I wish I could wear my Rakusu to work, so this is its replacement. It's just a gentle reminder of the Way, the Precepts, the Bodhisattva vows, my Sangha.
#####################

Anyway, like the Rakusu, it is so much more meaningful when one makes one than buys one. So that's why I was curious if you followed any instructions or just figured it out.

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Kaishin

Wow, looks great Jen! Do you plan any particular use for it?

Well, it'll probably just sit in a jewelry drawer most of the time with other stuff I forget I have. But I'll wear it when I feel like wearing it . . . or just look at it. I made it as a sort of commemoration of jukai and formalizing my commitment to the practice, finally.

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by Risho

That is really neat! Did you have some instructions you followed?

I looked at some instructions here and there on the internet (and a nice YouTube tutorial on tassel-making) but there were a lot of conflicting ideas about the number of beads (and a lot of new-agey stuff about the "meaning" of stones) so I winged it.

Originally Posted by Risho

To echo Matt's question, do you use it for chanting?

Nah. Actually, I wouldn't know how or what to chant with it. I know there are things you can do with a 108 bead mala, but this, I don't know.

Re: Beads

I have a number of wrist malas that I wear one at a time for a few months at a time as a reminder of my Buddhism and then I'll switch to another for the simple sake of variety. My malas are quite simple beads, seeds, stones, etc. (currently cedar), as I really don't think of them as decoration or jewelry; however, I recently bought a turquoise mala and it is so pretty that I do not want to wear it because it seems too flashy to be a spiritual reminder. But that hindrance is in my head, not the mala itself.

Re: Beads

I was given some Malla Beads as a Xmas present - 108 beads (polished wood).

There was quite a lot of writing on the box - wonder if anyone can validate.

It states a complete circuit of the malla means 'that the invisible thread which links the person to the divine and to their
higher self is awakened' ...... that doesn't sound quite right - more like a new age appropriation?

It also says the most common mantra is 'Om mani padme hum' which translated means 'Hail Jewel in the Lotus'. Is that correct?

I used the beads for chanting for a while - but it seemed to become more of a distraction than a help.

Perhaps I'll try again - making one's own feels a really nice thing to do.

Re: Beads

I got a 108-bead mala back in the day when I was following the Tibetans. I would use it to count mantras when meditating sometimes. I never wore it, because it wouldn't fit on my wrist; if it was looped three times, it was too tight; twice it was too loose.

I wouldn't mind getting a smaller one; I like the idea of having something physical like that as a sort of dharma reminder.

Re: Beads

Which pretty much seems like a more official sounding way to say : Jyuzu( prayer mala)

BTW: I find this video to be a very good explanation on exactly what a mala is. Although this is coming purely from a Tibetan Buddhist perspective, so there is a lot of 'mystical' sounding things here, aside from that, it is the best explanation of what these little beads can be used for and the significant they carry for some. Plus the teacher himself is very entertaining.
hope you will enjoy.

Re: Beads

Hi,

Well, that video by the Tibetan teacher is certainly fascinating. I don't know if a mala will help you stop the rain as that Tibetan teacher says, or if beads made of certain materials combined with the right mantra have "extra power" to "energize your mala", whether one should use the third finger for exorcisms and the second finger to improve clairvoyance, and most of the rest of that ...

In fact, I feel it is most unlikely, superstitious, even ridiculous. However, to each their own and it might be so. Such is not our practice here.

Most often, lay Zen folks in Japan will bring a rosary to a funeral. It is just done, and most lay folks do not know why. Perhaps they feel that it is comforting to hold during the ceremony (In other sects of Buddhism in Japan which are "chanting schools" such as the Pure Land or Nichiren Buddhists, the rosary are put to more actual use). Yes, each sect has its own style of Mala.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are ceremonies in Soto Zen Buddhism where the priest will use a Juzu/Mala. And ... guess what ... over the centuries in Soto Zen too many of those ceremonies were to do such things as make or stop the rain and exorcise evil forces! That is what the people coming to the temples ... the farmers, the people with some physical illness or personal problem ... wanted and what people believed for thousands of years. For centuries, in Asia, Europe, America, Australia or Africa, if one had a bad headache ... and no medical understanding ... one might go to a priest to get the demon out of one's head ... and the priest might do something to try to help (This week, with our own child in the hospital, I certainly understood the feeling of wanting to call on anyone ... doctors, lamas, psychics or witch doctors ... to help). Below again is a video of a Soto priest performing an esoteric ceremony with a Mala. While there may be some psychological benefit from it all ... it also may be just superstitious, even ridiculous.

This is not how we practice here. I posted this to accompany the video ...

Below, a "picture paints 1000 words" example of the magical, sooth-saying, esoteric elements found ... much more than perhaps most Western practitioners realize ... within the routines of traditional [Zen Buddhist, including Soto Zen Buddhist, practice] ...

Now, to emphasize, I am not critical of esoteric elements for those who wish to practice in such way. More power to them (pun intended). When my own school of Soto Zen Buddhism seems too much to resemble the practices of Shingon or Tibetan Buddhism, I am a bit critical on my own behalf and for my own students ... but I still honor and respect the right of anyone to practice their own "Soto Zen Buddhism" as they wish. One man's hocus-pocus is another man's sacred dance. On the other hand, some of us might wish to criticize such elements of Zen practice as magic making, voodoo and spell casting from our perspective. ...

I can also take and embrace all the elements of Mikkyo (Esoteric) ritual for their beauty, tradition, or on a symbolic or psychological level, or as a lovely dance. However, I think that some awareness of the origins of these practices (e.g., the Vajra, the hidden Mudra, the Dharani incantation seen in the below video), and how they came into Zen practice, would show that the description "abracadabra" fits more than "lovely symbolic dance". Some folks might be surprised that these rituals are so central to Zen practice in China and Japan ... arguably more central, more widely practiced by numbers of priests and time, than Zazen.

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by willow

I was given some Malla Beads as a Xmas present - 108 beads (polished wood).

There was quite a lot of writing on the box - wonder if anyone can validate.

It states a complete circuit of the malla means 'that the invisible thread which links the person to the divine and to their
higher self is awakened' ...... that doesn't sound quite right - more like a new age appropriation?

It also says the most common mantra is 'Om mani padme hum' which translated means 'Hail Jewel in the Lotus'. Is that correct?

Hi Willow,

"Om mani padme hum" (Om! Hail the Jewel in the Lotus!) is a common mantra in Tibetan Buddhism, although not in Zen Buddhism. If you would like to read a bit more about Mantra, please see this link ...

Well, I would say that this all depends how one defines a Mantra in one's heart. In much of Buddhism and related religions of India (although something very similar can be found in about all religions really ... e.g., like "God Is Great/Allahu al-Akbar" in Islam, an orthodox Jew's reciting the sacred letters of Torah, or "Praise Jesus" in some corners of Christianity), it is a sound, word or words that create transformation in some way.

...

Nichiren Buddhism (my wife's family are Nichiren Buddhists) is a school of Buddhism which developed in Japan hundreds of years ago centered on the power of the Lotus Sutra ... on the power of faith and recital even in just the name of the Lotus Sutra. Thus, they recite "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" (Hail the Wonderful Law of the Lotus Flower Sutra). Many Tibetans chant "Om mani padme hum" (Om! Hail the Jewel in the Lotus!). Another school of Buddhism in Asia is the Jodo (Pure Land) school(s), who worship or rely upon Amida Buddha, and thus chant "Namu Amida Butsu" (or its equivalent in Chinese etc., Homage to Amida, Buddha of Infinite Light).

...

In my opinion, of course, seated Zazen is "complete, whole, the only thing needed to do" in that moment of sitting. When we sit, it is very very vital to sit with the attitude sunk deep in one's bones that " there is no other place to be, nothing lacking, not one more thing to do" than this. (We do so because in daily life, running here and there and always feeling some lacks or discontents in life, we rarely if ever undertake one action with total heart and completeness in such way! Thus we call this "non-doing".)

However, rising from the cushion ... one must come to express Zazen all through daily life. All of daily life is also "Zazen" in its wider meaning. So, if a particular person wished to also chant "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" or "Namu Amida Butsu" or "Allahu al-Akbar" or "Kwan Seum Bosal" or the Torah or "Praise Jesus" (or "Praise Richard Dawkins" for our atheist members 8) ) ... that is fine. Up to each person in their heart. All Zazen in its wider meaning, as is everything from changing the baby to cooking dinner to sewing a Kesa.

You might also find this interesting, some of the many mystical meanings of "108" in Indian culture, not just throughout traditional Buddhism, but in Hinduism and other religious circles too. For just some of the many meanings of '108'. have a gander at this. It is wonderful:

Re: Beads

Hi all,

I also know that in Korean Zen they use mala to count prostrations. They do quite a lot of them every day. In this manual from Kwan Um http://www.kwanumzen.org/wp-content/upl ... dition.pdf it says that each morning service they do 108 full prostrations. I also heard from a monk in S. Korea that before he could take precepts he had to do 3000 prostrations.

Also it's very interesting how they use mantras in their tradition:

Kwan Seum Bosal
This is the Korean name of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Avalokitesvara. This mantra is commonly
suggested for people whose minds cannot be quiet one minute or who cannot concentrate
for very long. Because it is short it can be repeated over and over (usually with a set of beads for
counting). The usual recommendation is for 3000 to 10000 a day for someone who really wants
to clear their mind of a particular problem. It is also used on a daily basis by many people as part
of their sitting meditation technique.

Re: Beads

Originally Posted by andyZ

Hi all,

I also know that in Korean Zen they use mala to count prostrations. They do quite a lot of them every day. In this manual from Kwan Um http://www.kwanumzen.org/wp-content/upl ... dition.pdf it says that each morning service they do 108 full prostrations. I also heard from a monk in S. Korea that before he could take precepts he had to do 3000 prostrations.

Also it's very interesting how they use mantras in their tradition:

Kwan Seum Bosal
This is the Korean name of the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Avalokitesvara. This mantra is commonly
suggested for people whose minds cannot be quiet one minute or who cannot concentrate
for very long. Because it is short it can be repeated over and over (usually with a set of beads for
counting). The usual recommendation is for 3000 to 10000 a day for someone who really wants
to clear their mind of a particular problem. It is also used on a daily basis by many people as part
of their sitting meditation technique.

Hi Andy,

These Korean practices came up on another thread this week too.

I just say this there and here :

In my opinion, of course, seated Zazen is "complete, whole, the only thing needed to do" in that moment of sitting. When we sit, it is very very vital to sit with the attitude sunk deep in one's bones that " there is no other place to be, nothing lacking, not one more thing to do" than this. (We do so because in daily life, running here and there and always feeling some lacks or discontents in life, we rarely if ever undertake one action with total heart and completeness in such way! Thus we call this "non-doing".)

However, rising from the cushion ... one must come to express Zazen all through daily life. All of daily life is also "Zazen" in its wider meaning. So, if a particular person wished to also chant "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" or "Namu Amida Butsu" or "Allahu al-Akbar" or "Kwan Seum Bosal" or the Torah or "Praise Jesus" (or "Praise Richard Dawkins" for our atheist members 8) ) ... that is fine. Up to each person in their heart. All Zazen in its wider meaning, as is everything from changing the baby to cooking dinner to sewing a Kesa.

Are you still sitting Shikantaza Zazen each day in the flavor we teach around here? If so, no matter what one chants or bows. There is no obstacle at all if, together with one's Shikantaza practice, someone also chants Kwan Seum Bosal or prostrates daily if sometimes sitting with a group which does so.

Praying to Jesus, chanting Allahu al-Akbar or Kwan Seum Bosal ... All fine practices that may speak to different human hearts.

I do have some trouble with summoning rain or performing exorcisms with Mala beeds ... but that is not quite the same.

Re: Beads

I do have some trouble with summoning rain or performing exorcisms with Mala beeds ... but that is not quite the same.

Gassho, Jundo

I have a huge problem with that too. I'm not a pure materialist, but come on humans! Summoning rain with beads?!!! really?

I don't mean to offend anyone that believes in this sort of thing (I admit I have some irrational beliefs too; I mean I am human :mrgreen: ), but it irks me (I know, I know anger lol ) when people start rattling off conjecture about magic and all this other stuff that has no foundation in reality.

Now, this is obviously my subjective take on my life, but isn't Zen about getting to the core of things as they are, not adding onto things with fantasies?