Whitechapel - Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web note2015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/
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Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220540#Comment_2205402010-02-18T14:35:17-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00groundxerohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7299
I passed the building on my way to work. I saw footage of it on the news this morning but it impacts you a different way when you see it first-hand.
Man angry at IRS crashes plane into ...

Man angry at IRS crashes plane into building

By JIM VERTUNO, Associated Press Writer

AUSTIN, Texas – A software engineer furious with the Internal Revenue Service launched a suicide attack on the agency Thursday by crashing his small plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, setting off a raging fire that sent workers fleeing for their lives. At least one person in the building was missing.

A federal law official identified the pilot as Joseph Stack and said investigators were looking at a long anti-government screed and farewell note that he apparently posted on the Web earlier in the day as an explanation for what he was about to do.

"If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures."

READ FULL NOTE]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220542#Comment_2205422010-02-18T14:44:32-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00RenThinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155
Anyone want to bet me that he'll not be called a terrorist, despite flying his plane into a building for political reasons? Anyone...anyone?
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220544#Comment_2205442010-02-18T14:46:50-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Paladinehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5610
Of course he'll be called a terrorist.
Because Obama made America unsafe, and now we have a terrorist attack just one year after he took office, on American soil.
Because Obama made America unsafe, and now we have a terrorist attack just one year after he took office, on American soil.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220547#Comment_2205472010-02-18T14:55:35-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Brandon Seiferthttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=333
... And there were no terrorist attacks on America during the Bush administration.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220548#Comment_2205482010-02-18T14:59:52-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00icelandbobhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5250
christ here we go....
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220549#Comment_2205492010-02-18T15:01:34-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Will Ellwoodhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2556
Especially terrorist attacks committed by right wing middle-class Americans.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220550#Comment_2205502010-02-18T15:09:31-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00RenThinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155
But guys! Fox and MSNBC are both calling him a "furious pilot"!
Totes not a terrorist attack!
Totes not a terrorist attack!]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220553#Comment_2205532010-02-18T15:22:08-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Kelindhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7525
It's sorta interesting that the building is named Echelon 2. Also, it appears that the guy either bombed or set his own house on fire this morning.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220554#Comment_2205542010-02-18T15:32:26-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00meaninglessnoisehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5880
Just read Full Note. Yikes. My concern is that, despite being a reasonably articulate 'suicide' note, he was a little heavy-handed on the "cronies" dialogue and other personal attacks, ...
Just read Full Article. Unlikely the collective media will go into any of the validity of his claim. My money is on a heap of articles about the 'senseless tragedy' with little in-depth research into 'why' or 'what drives a person to commit such an act.'I mean, what he did was horrible, but people are horrible to each other all the time when they think there's no other option - but few people want to spend the energy figuring out why we're horrible and what the other options are.Also, I just woke up, so my head's a little swimmy. Christ. What next? (Apologies to those affected by this personally if I'm being an insensitive asshat.)]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220567#Comment_2205672010-02-18T17:05:04-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00groundxerohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7299
This was the 1st thing I saw when I woke up this morning and immediately woke up my fiance. I pass the building every day on my way to work. Today, it was surreal. His house that he burned down is ...
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220569#Comment_2205692010-02-18T17:20:33-06:002010-02-18T17:21:52-06:00rickiep00hhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2930
I'm not saying anything major out of fear of an eeling.
Suffice to say I think this guy wasn't a nutter. Just really, really stupid and self-centered, with a side of paranoia.
ETA: The guy made ...
Suffice to say I think this guy wasn't a nutter. Just really, really stupid and self-centered, with a side of paranoia.

ETA: The guy made some very good points. Flying a plane into a building wasn't going to solve any of the problems he mentioned.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220587#Comment_2205872010-02-19T00:15:48-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00bjacqueshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2157
Angry white dipshit. Guy hit a couple of bad financial patches and got into tax trouble. Fell in with a tax victim support group into amateur interpretations of the Internal Revenue Code, doubling ...
Why did he have to be an engineer? It's bad enough being associated with rightwing science fiction and movies like "Falling Down" and now this.

Selfish bastard too. The wife and kid would still have had a place to live before the IRS swooped in.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220589#Comment_2205892010-02-19T01:25:29-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Darthshatnerhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3587
So the guy who owned his own private airplane had money problems... ermm..
private airplane had money problems... ermm..]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220590#Comment_2205902010-02-19T01:48:13-06:002010-02-19T01:51:26-06:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
Please don't eat me for posting this. I haven't dug too deep into my thoughts on the subject yet, and this is really the first sort of discussion I have opened up to about it, so my ...
Now that that's out of the way...

"Highlights" from the "suicide note".

I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Honestly, I don't think the guy was much of a nut. He laid it out pretty plainly why he felt it was logical for him to kill himself, and I'm hard-pressed to disagree with him (despite the fact that there is much joy in my life and I want to live).

But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

Sure, maybe he could have done other things to help, but honestly, didn't reading his note get anyone else pissed off about how fucked up everything is? Doesn't anyone else feel that one step closer to sticking up two fingers (and I'm not talking about a peace sign) to the Fat Cats In Charge?

I understand there was someone missing? Did someone else die? Okay, fine, yes, that's when it becomes a bit of a bad way to go, for me. But his reasoning was sound, the way I see it.

I'm probably a bit of a nut, too, though.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220591#Comment_2205912010-02-19T02:01:02-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Fanhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919
> But his reasoning was sound, the way I see it. I'm probably a bit of a nut, too, though.
As a bit of a nut too, I used to feel indignant about other people being carnivorous; but over the ...
But his reasoning was sound, the way I see it. I'm probably a bit of a nut, too, though.

As a bit of a nut too, I used to feel indignant about other people being carnivorous; but over the years that's been replaced by a more easy-going live-and-let-die attitude.

Sound reasoning can get you anywhere, reasoning is nothing: what matters is what your premises are, your axioms; and apparently he was missing out on axioms like "primum non nocere".]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220594#Comment_2205942010-02-19T02:07:49-06:002010-02-19T02:11:54-06:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
@Fan - True. But, to be fair, the man was not a doctor, and this is war.
Edited to add that I am in no way happy that either of these people died.
Edited to add that I am in no way happy that either of these people died.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220599#Comment_2205992010-02-19T02:57:03-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00kmcleodhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=191
@Paladine--
"Because Obama made America unsafe, and now we have a terrorist attack just one year after he took office, on American soil. "
No, I think the conservative take on this will ...
"Because Obama made America unsafe, and now we have a terrorist attack just one year after he took office, on American soil. "

No, I think the conservative take on this will be that he was a tragic American driven mad by Obama's policies.He won't be called a terrorist because he's a white male who dislikes taxes and big government.

@Jeff Owens--No, you're not a nut; you don't care more about making a point than endangering innocent people. You're not even an egomaniac.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220621#Comment_2206212010-02-19T05:11:26-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00atavistianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6519
Guy took zero responsibility for his tax fuckups, at least the first of which he knew was wrong. Hundreds of millions of people have navigated the system with no problem. He decided to try and buck ...
Spare me.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220624#Comment_2206242010-02-19T05:22:48-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00MDickeyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=51
I'm not posing this as an argument, but as a hypothetical situation:
Would it have any impact (aside from media circus) if instead of just one person doing something rash, thousands of people ...
Would it have any impact (aside from media circus) if instead of just one person doing something rash, thousands of people ended their lives (without harming anyone else; a sort've peaceful suicide protest) citing some sort of governmental impedance as the reason; be it taxes, national security, corporate corruption, etc?]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220626#Comment_2206262010-02-19T05:31:55-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00atavistianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6519
Thousands would necessarily have an impact. Even one person's suicide can have an impact, if it's the right person (see: Thich Quang Duc).
Thich Quang Duc).]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220653#Comment_2206532010-02-19T08:22:18-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00rickiep00hhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2930
No, I think the conservative take on this will be that he was a tragic American driven mad by Obama's policies.
He won't be called a terrorist because he's a white male who dislikes taxes and big ...
No, I think the conservative take on this will be that he was a tragic American driven mad by Obama's policies.He won't be called a terrorist because he's a white male who dislikes taxes and big government.The interesting bit is that he wasn't blasting big government, he was blasting inefficient, cronyist, good-ole-boys' club government. One of his primary complaints was about health care.

The tax angle certainly gives it a lean to the right, but over all, it was pretty centrist. And selfish. Basically saying "I don't want to pay taxes but I want all the benefits that come from taxes," like three-quarters (totally made-up statistic) of Americans do. The only nuts thing about it is that he felt he needed to hurt innocent people (remember, there were more than just IRS offices in that building) to make his point. In seven or eight pages, I saw nothing in there that screamed out an injustice so bad that attacking other people was justified.

So the guy who owned his own private airplane had money problems... ermm...

And then there's this.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220654#Comment_2206542010-02-19T08:29:16-06:002010-02-19T08:29:40-06:00RenThinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155
@rickiep00h
The only nuts thing about it is that he felt he needed to hurt innocent people (remember, there were more than just IRS offices in that building) to make his point.
Don't forget ...
The only nuts thing about it is that he felt he needed to hurt innocent people (remember, there were more than just IRS offices in that building) to make his point.

Don't forget that he lit his house on fire with his wife and child in it.

Fucking shit head.

Honestly, I have no fucking sympathy for the guy. My wife and I, who don't own a house or our own private plane, and owe just about as much as him (the figures I've seen is $12k) due to errors she made a few years ago on her taxes when she was doing them herself. And you know what, she's the one who made the mistakes, she's the one who filed, and she's the one taking responsibility for the money she owes. I know other people who, at times, have been in similar or worse situations due to tax or credit card debit and none of them felt the need to harm themselves or anyone else. Guy was a selfish asshole and it's lucky that no one was killed (at least I don't think any of the injured have died from yesterday). He's not an unfortunate victim, he's just a selfish bastard.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220656#Comment_2206562010-02-19T08:34:13-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00costa_khttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6592
@ rickiep00h -
No, that sounds like a pretty accurate statistic.
No, that sounds like a pretty accurate statistic.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220665#Comment_2206652010-02-19T09:09:28-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00rickiep00hhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2930
Don't forget that he lit his house on fire with his wife and child in it.I did. Thanks for reminding me.
What a dick this guy was.
Don't forget that he lit his house on fire with his wife and child in it.I did. Thanks for reminding me.

What a dick this guy was.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220673#Comment_2206732010-02-19T09:55:59-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Audley Strangehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=4475
Spoilt twat who threw his toys out his pram when he got scolded for his bad behaviour.
Thousands would necessarily have an impact. Even one person's suicide can have an impact, if it's the right ...

Thousands would necessarily have an impact. Even one person's suicide can have an impact, if it's the right person (see: Thich Quang Duc).

Yeah if it wasn't for him Vietnam might have ended up an absolute mess during the 60's and 70's.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220682#Comment_2206822010-02-19T10:56:13-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
@RenThing, @rickiep00h
Don't forget that he lit his house on fire with his wife and child in it.
According to an eyewitness, no, he didn't. Here's a quote from the article linked at the top of ...

Don't forget that he lit his house on fire with his wife and child in it.

According to an eyewitness, no, he didn't. Here's a quote from the article linked at the top of this thread.

Elbert Hutchins, who lives one house away, said the house caught fire about 9:15 a.m. He said a woman and her teenage daughter drove up to the house before firefighters arrived.

"They both were very, very distraught," said Hutchins, a retiree who said he didn't know the family well. "'That's our house!' they cried. `That's our house!'"

Let's try to avoid misinformation, here.

Also, the other person who was killed was a 67-year-old revenue office manager for the IRS, whose wife also worked at the IRS office.

Again, I am, in no way, happy when people die. I am a pacifist, and I happen to disagree with Joe Stack about violence. I think any violent revolution will result in the same violence however many years down the road. But I struggle to consider a 67-year-old IRS office manager innocent, as I do a large percentage of the oblivious population.

Please, don't eat me.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220683#Comment_2206832010-02-19T11:04:36-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00RenThinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155
@Jeff Owens
Thank you for the correction, my news source was obviously wrong (news, wrong? The devil you say!)
But I struggle to consider a 67-year-old IRS office manager innocent, as I do a ...
Thank you for the correction, my news source was obviously wrong (news, wrong? The devil you say!)

But I struggle to consider a 67-year-old IRS office manager innocent, as I do a large percentage of the oblivious population.

I would argue that is only because the individual works for the IRS. If you learned that he was a 67-year old janitor who happened to be working cleaning windows just as that asshole flew through them instead of being employed by the IRS, would you think him more innocent because of his occupation? If that is true, I really think you need to consider why that is the case.

Regardless of if he was a window-washer, baker, IRS agent in charge of auditing little old lady's taxes, a repoman, or a personal injury attorney, it is not ok for someone else to kill them or take any action that causes them harm or death because that person has a narcissistic selfish personality and a beef with the government.

Please, don't eat me.

I'm pretty sure that's grounds for getting eeled and as I have yet to get eeled in the years I've been here, I think I'll avoid masticating you and leave us both happier for it.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220684#Comment_2206842010-02-19T11:29:37-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Ryan Chttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3942
This may be the wrong thread for this but after seeing this (and 100 other things in the "news") I can't help but think, why now? American government hasn't cared about its people for ...
When can we get off planet and start a new society? Everything here seems rotten.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220699#Comment_2206992010-02-19T12:53:52-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jay Kayhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=814
Let me just say as someone who probably leans more to the right then most of the people that what this guy did is totally not okay. Just sayin'.
not okay. Just sayin'.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220720#Comment_2207202010-02-19T14:33:37-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00BrianMowreyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1709
The credentials of this man's self-assigned persecuted status may be extremely questionable -- really, who owns a plane? -- but the statement, made in this thread, that 100s of millions of people ...
here.)

Most people in this country stay out of tax trouble by working for corporations -- really, how does it make sense for the laws to be so complex and yet carry penalties that affect people? Do I have to take a class to learn how to not murder people? Stack sounded like an asshole, but even an IC intent on paying their fare share has to worry about breaking the law for not paying their fare share the right way. I myself haven't claimed my tax returns in 7 years, that's thousands of dollars of free money for the government, but because I've been paid $4000 as an IC in that time (little of it profit) I can probably expect a $10000 fine in my future.The complexity itself favors larger institutions that can afford accounting staff, but the fees apply to individuals just as strongly (and then the larger institutions turn around and write the rules only they know how to obey, but don't worry about that). it is for that same reason that most (well, a dwindling, unsustainable majority) of people are ok for health care. And this fact is why there is no outrage, and precious little awareness, of the truth that all laws in this country are NNARP -- need not apply to rich people.

But for the non-elite, if you aren't owned by a corporation, the laws in this country are designed to fuck you. Most of these rules were written by post-Reagan Democrats, who think they can gain way in the class war by feeding corporations more leverage in every market, in return for expanding the portion of the populace eligible for the small protections afforded by corporate ownership -- but the political necessity of these compromises were driven by modern conservative ideas). It's true for both ends of an American citizen's role in the market, working and spending. If you don't have a savings account and a credit card, the financial services industry devours you like piranhas. And government endorses this -- it's not just that legislation to protect you is stalled and dying in Congress as we speak -- for the simple reason that most people aren't being financially destroyed by these companies, so what does it matter that only the most vulnerable millions are -- it's that you really do end up being an outlaw before long just by trying to survive. For an example, take car ownership: if you can't get credit for a dealership car (and for a lot of people, dealership-credit is just a tool to drain them of whatever financial security they currently have, so that after a few years they won't be able to get credit) you buy a classifieds car (pay taxes even though you're buying it from an individual) and when after a few months it can't meet Inspection even though it still runs and you can't afford to fix it yet, you get a ticket, and when you can't pay the ticket, you get pulled over again and your license is taken away. And if you have the audacity to continue trying to get to work and the grocery store every day after that, you get arrested.

Meanwhile, the former vice president can admit to illegally implementing torture policies on TV and it doesn't mean a fucking thing.

That is America.

Stack should have crashed into a building that was closed and unoccupied, and I haven't heard a clear answer on the house thing, and yes he sounds like a big old dick any way you slice it, but he had a good message. And it really is a wonder more people in this country don't take this route on a daily basis (I'm not talking about freepers, those r-tards are long past the point of understanding that corporations are the ones manipulating and preying upon them, and just want daddy in the pickup truck to wave at the camera and assure them they're still better than black people.)

For me, if I didn't have art, I wouldn't think twice about this kind of act. Or, I would have already moved out of the country -- to somewhere there's a choice between preying on other people, ignorantly living a corporate-approved life, or getting fucked over and thrown in jail just for not saying "thank you sir" enough times. I guess that for the rest of off-the-rolls, off-Elm-street America, tribalism, hatred, and sports are their art, because I don't know what the fuck else keeps them going.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220723#Comment_2207232010-02-19T14:44:34-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00RenThinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155
Or, you know, you could just hire an accountant whose job it is to do taxes.
I have done my taxes through TurboTax and H&R Block for the last fifteen years and I haven't gotten in trouble. ...
I have done my taxes through TurboTax and H&R Block for the last fifteen years and I haven't gotten in trouble. Millions of Americans do the same. Stack's complaints are bullshit.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220730#Comment_2207302010-02-19T16:26:55-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00atavistianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6519
^What Ren said.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220731#Comment_2207312010-02-19T16:40:45-06:002010-02-19T16:41:39-06:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
@all - Taking life is, undoubtedly, where I draw the line on pretty much everything. I have a very high regard for life of any kind, and it upsets me that Joe Stack died, and that he killed someone, ...
of any kind, and it upsets me that Joe Stack died, and that he killed someone, and injured others, while doing so. (I'm more upset by the other man's death, as Joe Stack seems to have wanted to die.)

@RenThing, @atavistian - That being said, not all of his complaints could be solved through use of H&R Block and TurboTax (as great of a website as that is). I don't think it's complete bullshit to complain that our politicians don't care about us, I don't think it's complete bullshit to complain that the election process is a bit of a joke, and I don't think it's complete bullshit to complain that the justice system seems to be set up to protect the rich, and their friends, these days.

I wish that H&R Block had a way to fix our faulty election system, or that TurboTax had a "Crush Corrupt Government" button you could click while filing your Federal return, but these things are, unfortunately, not the case.

A boy can dream!]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220736#Comment_2207362010-02-19T19:06:13-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Marty Nozzhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6518
The guy was an asshole and nuts. Anyone trying to spin this as the fault of the Left or the Right needs to stop, take a breath, and remember what this guy did and not give any validity whatsoever to ...
And yes, I did blog about this incident, but it was about the really piss poor reporting CNN did on the matter.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220744#Comment_2207442010-02-19T20:18:19-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00stsparkyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2311
He was too stupid to be a tax cheat. He killed one innocent, and likely two more. If I believed in Hell - I'd wish him there. I remember when I was a T-man in 1990, a total asswipe nutjob drove an ...
I feel sorry for the people he hurt. And Obama needs to call this jerk a terrorist to tar the nuttier fringes of the Teabaggers with the same brush. IMO.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220752#Comment_2207522010-02-19T21:18:55-06:002010-02-19T21:19:39-06:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
I certainly feel sorry for the people he hurt/killed and their families. I can't disagree that the guy probably should be labeled a terrorist, but that's always been a pretty nebulous term, so I'm ...
BrianMowrey said, he probably should have flown into an unoccupied building. But he didn't. And it was definitely fucked up.

I posted that to make sure no one thinks I'm advocating that sort of action, and if I said anything that indicated I was, then I apologize, and I probably shouldn't have said it.

I do think, however, that whether or not this man deserves validation or credit for his views, he said some things that provoke thought, and I think it would be a shame for us not to think about how wacky/kind of shitty of a time we are living in, if nothing else, from this occurrence.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220754#Comment_2207542010-02-19T21:31:54-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00tim12shttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=737
Now why couldn't a CREATIVE genius simply hack the IRS and just delete the files of everyone whose last names begin with F, U, C, K, T, H, E, I, R, S.
Although the Stainless Steel Rat did that in ...
Although the Stainless Steel Rat did that in the 70's.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220759#Comment_2207592010-02-19T21:54:37-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Brendan McGinleyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=93
A man flew a plane into a building. This isn't the end of The Running Man. He killed people.
There's no moral debate here.
There's no moral debate here.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220762#Comment_2207622010-02-19T22:00:02-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00stsparkyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2311
Um, this pampered clown had a plane, and he could not figure a way for it to earn money for him. And instead of working with the IRS, which has a whole department of caring human beings called ...
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220767#Comment_2207672010-02-19T22:24:27-06:002010-02-19T22:24:40-06:00atavistianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6519
^what stsparky said.
Honestly: guy knowingly tried to circumvent tax law, got caught, blamed everyone but himself.
Guy "missed a deadline" and again, blamed everyone but ...
Honestly: guy knowingly tried to circumvent tax law, got caught, blamed everyone but himself.

Guy "missed a deadline" and again, blamed everyone but himself.

Take lessons from more deserving people. There are people who have been screwed out there, no doubt. But contemplating this guy's bullshit only serves to validate his murderous act whether you're comfortable admitting it or not.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220781#Comment_2207812010-02-20T00:08:39-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00jonahhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6503
I was curious and looked up how much a plane like that costs. I think it's between $30,000-$60,000. He could have fixed up a beater too. Sure, I would love to have that kind of money, but it's not ...
This article says he used the plane for work purposes - so maybe it was a tax write off!

The best part of the "manifesto" was when he talked about the old lady that advised him to eat cat food. He could have filled a book up with real stories Studs Terkel style and let people draw their own conclusions.

@atavistian Or Tank Man. I find that to be a much more powerful and inspiring image than a pile of rubble.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220784#Comment_2207842010-02-20T00:51:11-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Alastairhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=287
i'm really confused, how the fuck can you be fined for figuring your tax out wrong? isn't that the job of the goverment? i may be being overly british here but how the fuck does your tax work?
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220785#Comment_2207852010-02-20T01:12:06-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Bexx B.S.http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=444
Idiot. Just fucking have someone do your goddamn fucking taxes. For the life of me I can not understand, how this asshat - and countless industry people, and sports figures still manage to fuck them ...
I have no sympathy for these people. For 2 years straight, I haven't gotten money back from Ca. When I used to. These are the prices you pay.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220788#Comment_2207882010-02-20T02:31:33-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00meaninglessnoisehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=5880
This may be a case of the "broken clock being right twice a day," but the guy had valid points. I don't condone his choice of action, but the system is broken. It is. I haven't heard a ...
I am incredibly disappointed in humanity as a whole when one person chooses to take an innocent life, but I cannot fault him for being frustrated with the system of government. That's all my tired head can manage right now.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220790#Comment_2207902010-02-20T02:43:26-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
@Alastair
isn't that the job of the goverment?
It goddamned well should be.

isn't that the job of the goverment?

It goddamned well should be.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220791#Comment_2207912010-02-20T02:47:29-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Alastairhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=287
i really don't understand how the most powerful (and it seems to me) most populated goverment on earth can't just do it? surely if they can figure out how much people owe after they pay couldn't ...
after they pay couldn't they just tell them before?! i'm actually flabbergahsted]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220795#Comment_2207952010-02-20T03:49:01-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Fanhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919
> i'm really confused, how the fuck can you be fined for figuring your tax out wrong? isn't that the job of the goverment?
In some countries, the civil servants who work for tax authorities are ...
i'm really confused, how the fuck can you be fined for figuring your tax out wrong? isn't that the job of the goverment?

In some countries, the civil servants who work for tax authorities are seen as helpful: and, tax payers trust them to be on your side and to help figure out what's fair, how much you ought to pay.

Whereas in the States I think it's seen as an adversarial relationship, with the tax authorities trying to get as much as possible, and people privately hire their own advistors to try to minimize what they pay.

> Surely if they can figure out how much people owe after they pay couldn't they just tell them before?!

American tax laws are said to be "complicated", to put it charitably.

Also, for someone who's a self-employed non-employee, they presumably need to wait to see how much revenue they're declaring, what expenses they claim, etc.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220796#Comment_2207962010-02-20T04:11:30-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00William Georgehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7366
There's nothing more dangerous than an inconvenienced rich person.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220803#Comment_2208032010-02-20T09:54:12-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Dextrahttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=279
Stack's widow has said "she's sorry for everyone affected by the tragedy."
Let's see. She and her daughter are homeless. Any pets they may have had are now dead. She probably lost ...
"she's sorry for everyone affected by the tragedy."

Let's see. She and her daughter are homeless. Any pets they may have had are now dead. She probably lost precious keepsakes in the fire, too. And, because Texas is a community property state, she's now responsible for all his debt and legal problems, and she may not be eligible to collect on his life insurance.

But, somehow, she's the one who has to make apologies.

In recent days, Stack's wife had become afraid of his "increasingly frightening anger," the New York Times reports, citing the wife's stepfather. She reportedly took her daughter to stay in a hotel on Wednesday.

So, possibly, he'd have blithely happily burned them alive if he could have. Why not? They're just chattel, after all. That's the typical mindset of these losers, same as the ones who kill their wives and children and then themselves. IMA TAKIN MAH POSSESSIONS WITH ME!

Back to the first article: Stack's former wife, Ginger, tells the Los Angeles Times "He was a good man. Frustrated with the IRS, yes, but a good man."

Stockholm Syndrome much? "Good men" don't fly planes into buildings. Per the second article, when she and Joe divorced in 1999, Ginger had to file for bankruptcy "because she could not pay $125,860 in back taxes due for 1993 and 1998."

Apparently, because of hubby's political hobby. According to that second article, Stack first got involved with a "tax resistance movement" in the early '80s. He blamed the IRS and other agencies for "hindering his business prospects, and for wrecking his retirement plans."

This is the world's tiniest violin. Taxes are the price you pay for living in a modern society.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220806#Comment_2208062010-02-20T10:09:21-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
The guvment is evil they make me pay taxes therefore I must kill people.
Really if this guy's argument makes any sense to you then there's nothing left to say.
Really if this guy's argument makes any sense to you then there's nothing left to say.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220809#Comment_2208092010-02-20T10:39:33-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
There's plenty left to say if people have an interest in sharing their opinions and listening to one another with open minds.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220811#Comment_2208112010-02-20T10:43:04-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00RenThinghttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=155
@angeldye
It is not the job of the government (unfortunately) as it is a persons responsibility to pay the taxes they owe correctly. Again, unfortunately, the tax codes are incredibly complex. ...
It is not the job of the government (unfortunately) as it is a persons responsibility to pay the taxes they owe correctly. Again, unfortunately, the tax codes are incredibly complex. However, that's why accountants exist. There people whose job it is to do that.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220814#Comment_2208142010-02-20T10:47:46-06:002010-02-20T10:52:14-06:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
Yeah but doesn't his reasoning strike you as insanity?
Sure anyone can be dissatisfied with how things are going. But this guy takes this dissatisfation, tries to murder his family, and then ...
Sure anyone can be dissatisfied with how things are going. But this guy takes this dissatisfation, tries to murder his family, and then makes himself into a bomb which slams into a building where 200 or more people are going through their day. His note might make sense, but only if you disregard his actions...]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220815#Comment_2208152010-02-20T11:08:06-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
He tried to murder his family? Correct me if I'm wrong but, in my experience, when you live with someone, especially when that someone is a significant other, you know whether or not they are home. ...
Whether or not he was crazy has nothing at all to do with whether or not his note makes sense. The mere fact that quite a few of us on here understand why he was so outraged should say something about the validity of his points, regardless of the moronic action he took in the end. Action which, to me, was more caused by him being fed up than it was any true desire to make a difference, despite his statement that violence is the only answer.

I feel like lots of people are dismissing others' opinions here simply on the grounds that they don't agree. I have been quite frustrated with this thread because I feel I am seeing provers proving what thinkers think, instead of a willingness to listen to a different opinion and actually take it into consideration. My own feelings on the subject have actually fluctuated quite a bit while reading everyone's thoughts in this thread. I started out thinking the guy wasn't crazy, and now I'm seeing the crazy there. I don't think it's that black and white though. I don't think that doing one crazy thing that takes some lives equates to being disregarded. Lives are taken every day. Why aren't we calling soldiers crazy? Because they have a free pass to kill?]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220818#Comment_2208182010-02-20T11:30:40-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
Yeah but the disconnect is between his feelings of dissatisfaction and the subsequent actions. You can't draw a line between that and say, based on the note alone, he isn't crazy. The man's end point ...
We all feel dissatisfied like this guy did at times, absolutely, 100%. But the manner in which we deal with those situations is what makes us different from Joe Stack.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220819#Comment_2208192010-02-20T11:34:42-06:002010-02-20T11:36:09-06:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
You can't draw a line between that and say, based on the note alone, he isn't crazy.
No, you can't. And I didn't.
I'm not arguing whether or not he was crazy at the end, I'm arguing the fact ...
You can't draw a line between that and say, based on the note alone, he isn't crazy.

No, you can't. And I didn't.

I'm not arguing whether or not he was crazy at the end, I'm arguing the fact that being crazy does not exempt you from having valid points. In fact, valid points can drive one to insanity.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220820#Comment_2208202010-02-20T11:38:32-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00stsparkyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2311
Jeff? It's like this. You're trying to tell me something akin to "Hitler was a vegetarian and was kind to dogs" when Stack clearly refused to sell his toys to settle his tiny debt to ...
Taxes pay for schools and roads and good stuff. Stack could have simply gone to jail to protest - violence solves nothing. I want to see Obama personally link Stack to the Teabaggers' more extreme elements - and call them out as racist nutjobs.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220822#Comment_2208222010-02-20T11:41:44-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
Is it meaningless that the IRS are operating outside the law?
The man was HARDLY Hitler.
The man was HARDLY Hitler.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220824#Comment_2208242010-02-20T11:51:23-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
He had some valid points, yes. "The world is not fair, people are mean" But that's about it. He has some paranoid bullshit points also: all politicians are evil and the justice system too. ...
I have more sympathy for the 911 bombers than for this piece of shit.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220825#Comment_2208252010-02-20T11:54:01-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
all politicians are evil and the justice system too.
Then I'm paranoid, too.
all politicians are evil and the justice system too.

Then I'm paranoid, too.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220828#Comment_2208282010-02-20T12:35:22-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
Oh come on, how are all politicans and everybody in the justice system evil? They're normal people. It's not like they answered an add saying, "wanted: some evil motherfuckers." Except for ...
all politicans and everybody in the justice system evil? They're normal people. It's not like they answered an add saying, "wanted: some evil motherfuckers." Except for a few mad tyrants, most of them are just people trying to do a difficult job, some of them have some succes, while others are just staggeringly bad at doing their job. Incompetence however doesn't equal evil. And there's a few of them who are actually really good, like Havel, or Mandela.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220830#Comment_2208302010-02-20T12:51:32-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
It's kind of like how I'm not a fan of the police. Even if you're a "good" police officer, you're still choosing to put yourself in a position of authority that assumes you know better ...
choosing to put yourself in a position of authority that assumes you know better than everyone else. Even if their intentions are, initially, noble, I'm still going to have a problem with anyone who thinks they know what's best for me, or what's best for anyone but themselves.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220831#Comment_2208312010-02-20T13:09:57-06:002010-02-20T13:39:48-06:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
But these things are necessary: necessary evil, perhaps. But I'm pretty sure we'd be worse off if there were no IRS, no politicians, no lawyers and no police. We'd be in Somalia.
Alternatively, ...
Alternatively, you could see "the authorities" as people who can help you, who provide a service, rather than someone who tells you what to do and how to think. The best politicians try to reach a consensus rather than just relying on their power to suppress dissent. The police are there to help you, so you can demand that they do. They're agents of order, but order isn't necessarily a bad thing, every community needs a measure of order in order to thrive.

That is something that people like Joe Stack just can't bring themselves to see; that some people are actually capable of helping him, or that some people can be worked with - for a good cause - rather than against.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220834#Comment_2208342010-02-20T13:36:24-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
Let's assume these things ARE necessary (which is debatable). The fact that they are necessary does, in no way, mean someone is crazy for having a strong opposition to them.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220838#Comment_2208382010-02-20T13:48:42-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
Sorry for editing my last post so late. I added the point that the authorities can be worked with rather than against. They're put in power by the people to provide a service to the people, rather ...

The fact that they are necessary does, in no way, mean someone is crazy for having a strong opposition to them.

Maybe, but it's not very helpful to hate the whole lot of them. I wouldn't say that qualifies a person as crazy, but it doesn't help anyone to take such a dim view of the wider world. And I do think that if you look at the facts, it's demonstrably wrong. Not all politicians are evil. Their acts are in general not the acts of evil people. Wrong however is not crazy.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220839#Comment_2208392010-02-20T14:13:59-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
I guess I'm just biased because I have lived in Arizona most of my life.
Arizona most of my life.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220844#Comment_2208442010-02-20T15:39:11-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00William Georgehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=7366
The mere fact that quite a few of us on here understand why he was so outraged should say something about the validity of his points
Isn't it possible your own worldview could be just as ...
The mere fact that quite a few of us on here understand why he was so outraged should say something about the validity of his pointsIsn't it possible your own worldview could be just as ridiculously extreme as his?]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220861#Comment_2208612010-02-20T18:28:46-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00BrianMowreyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1709
Whereas in the States I think it's seen as an adversarial relationship, with the tax authorities trying to get as much as possible, and people privately hire their own advistors to try to minimize ...
Whereas in the States I think it's seen as an adversarial relationship, with the tax authorities trying to get as much as possible, and people privately hire their own advistors to try to minimize what they pay.

...

It is not the job of the government (unfortunately) as it is a persons responsibility to pay the taxes they owe correctly. Again, unfortunately, the tax codes are incredibly complex. However, that's why accountants exist. There people whose job it is to do that.

No, the American tax code is pointlessly complex so that accountants can have every opportunity to siphon money from what should be a much more basic transaction. See here for TurboTax derailing a California state bill that would have taken the radical step of providing tax payers with the information the state already knew to make filing returns more simple: democracy at work!

Side note, I felt a bit embarassed for mentioning my own tax return (not tax payment) delinquency in my previous post without elaborating that unlike Stack, I don't resent the IRS for being the beast that it is, and in my case I'm indifferent to the idea of being in trouble for not filling out paperwork; I've paid more than my prescribed percentage for 7 years and when I get fined 10000 for not filing -- well let's just say I have an easy come easy go attitude with money. Just so long as the money stays out of HRBs hands, I don't care what happens to it. I'm not planning on buying any planes.

But I do feel passionately that on a larger scale, our tax codes like every othe bit of business-related legislation that Washington has produced in the last 30 years are an instrument of class warfare, designed to illegalize freedom-from-corporate-provenance, and subsidize corporations at the expense of the lower class and the dismantling of the middle class.

Also: the idea that Stack's (selfish, probably-mentally-disturbed) manifesto cannot be discussed because he murdered two people, is not an idea.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220872#Comment_2208722010-02-20T22:10:16-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00atavistianhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6519
Also: the idea that Stack's (selfish, probably-mentally-disturbed) manifesto cannot be discussed because he murdered two people, is not an idea.
Aaaaaaaaaand with that wonderfully willful ...
Also: the idea that Stack's (selfish, probably-mentally-disturbed) manifesto cannot be discussed because he murdered two people, is not an idea.

Aaaaaaaaaand with that wonderfully willful misinterpretation, I'm out.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220874#Comment_2208742010-02-20T22:26:35-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00roquehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=482
it's not that it cannot be discussed. I happen to agree with Stsparky and others. Stack, like many crazy assholes, had some ideas with which I can sympathize, but he was still a crazy asshole ...
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220876#Comment_2208762010-02-20T22:29:10-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00stsparkyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2311
Look, there are folks who will help you for free. They just won't cheat the government for you. If you want to protest taxes - leave the country or enjoy federal prison - don't give in to futile ...
I recommend to everyone to have a copy of Publication 17.

He was pissed at politicians of all stripes and outraged at the IRS, which he believed unfairly gave tax loopholes to big corporations and the Catholic Church, but not regular Americans.

He said he tried to exploit the same loopholes but it backfired. That "little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0," he wrote.

And selfish dickery that results in the deaths of innocent workers does equal a paucity of ideas. That the moron couldn't make having a plane be a money maker means his rambling nonsense remains in the dust bin forever as far as I am concerned.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220885#Comment_2208852010-02-21T00:18:17-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. It's just another blip on a radar screen full of deaths, senseless or otherwise. We're all still alive, and we may as well just agree to not kill ...
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220891#Comment_2208912010-02-21T03:18:34-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Flabyohttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1306
Incidentally, you *can* be fined for messing up your tax return here in the UK. Not a massive fine admittedly, but still a fine.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220897#Comment_2208972010-02-21T05:47:09-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Fanhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=6919
American tax code is pointlessly complex so that accountants can have every opportunity to siphon money from what should be a much more basic transaction
I've heard that other special interests ...
American tax code is pointlessly complex so that accountants can have every opportunity to siphon money from what should be a much more basic transaction

I've heard that other special interests too affect the tax laws; to invent an example, a tax might apply to everyone except to those who bought a sugar plantation between 1983 and 1985, and sold it again last year: an exemption like that would be written to please some lobbyist or other in particular.

The out-of-control tax code says that there are over 60,000 pages of tax law.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220920#Comment_2209202010-02-21T09:28:03-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00stsparkyhttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=2311
As to tax code and the individual - stick to Pub 17.
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=220925#Comment_2209252010-02-21T10:21:14-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
the idea that Stack's (selfish, probably-mentally-disturbed) manifesto cannot be discussed because he murdered two people, is not an idea.
By all means, discuss it. But what is really in there? I ...
the idea that Stack's (selfish, probably-mentally-disturbed) manifesto cannot be discussed because he murdered two people, is not an idea.

By all means, discuss it. But what is really in there? I don't see anything of any substance other than the wining of a rich American who doesn't want to pay taxes because he needs money to buy more stuff.

He assumes that everybody is hostile to him: the people who arranged the tax reform are out to get him, they STOLE HIS MONEY! Yet he also complains about the government closing airforce bases in Southern California, something which is unavoidable exacty because the government doesn't have the tax dollars to continue to fund those bases. He sympathizes with the plight of the old lady who had to eat cat food to survive yet he doesn't want to pay his taxes, which the goverment could use to give her a decent retirement.

Read what's really in there, by all means. Bottom line: the guy had an airplane, and he calls himself poor. So discuss his pathetic manifesto if you think it's really worth it.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=221009#Comment_2210092010-02-22T00:56:44-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Kosmopolithttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1346
"Let's assume these things ARE necessary (which is debatable). The fact that they are necessary does, in no way, mean someone is crazy for having a strong opposition to them."
As a ...
As a general rule, I think it's safe to conclude that most people who engage in murder/suicide sprees are crazy.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=221011#Comment_2210112010-02-22T01:26:34-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Jeff Owenshttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=1150
@Kosmopolit - I'm pretty sure I was talking about the people who feel the way he did who don't end up killing people, such as myself. I'm not quite sure though, as this discussion has gotten a bit ...
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=221107#Comment_2211072010-02-22T17:17:45-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00roquehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=482
Daughter calls crazy asshole idiot father a 'hero', and others are apparently following suit, according to this somewhat vaguely-worded article. anyone running into other examples of this kind of ...
Daughter calls crazy asshole idiot father a 'hero', and others are apparently following suit, according to this somewhat vaguely-worded article. anyone running into other examples of this kind of apologia?]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=221116#Comment_2211162010-02-22T18:09:34-06:002010-02-22T18:12:30-06:00Verissimushttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3379
Oh yeah sure, I saw some of that madness on a Dutch website. "He is doing what others dare only dream of," "this is what they (the big banks/government/the new world order) have driven ...
He's quickly grown into somewhat of a role model for some people. Probably not many, though.]]>
Official: Plane crash pilot left anti-IRS Web notehttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7759&Focus=221174#Comment_2211742010-02-23T08:38:31-06:002015-08-02T15:39:54-05:00Lanihttp://freakangels.com/whitechapel/account.php?u=3573
Verus: There's a facebook fan page for his philosophy that already has a couple thousand fans.
Slate has a good article looking at the characteristics displayed in his manifesto, compared to ...
Slate has a good article looking at the characteristics displayed in his manifesto, compared to others who have attempted/committed mass murder (Columbine, Virginia Tech, etc.). Narcissism is one of the primary characteristics.