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As much as I love and miss having Reyes, I believe that he will never be a "winner". I see David Wright in different light.

we didn't lose in 2006 because of Reyes, he had a hell of a season and a pretty decent NLCS...we lost because our sluggers (cough cough Delgado) couldn't hit LHP so teams stacked every lefty they had against us; because of our bullpen (I believe that was when Randolph was afraid to let Wagner pitch); because Traschell didn't show up ready to pitch; and because Beltran likes to look at called third strikes...

that whole "the Mets need to split up the core" thing was started by a Yankee fan that has one of the most influencial talkshows on NYC radio...They needed more than just a 3 person core, this isn't basketball or hockey...

I have less and less hope these days. I felt good just a few weeks ago. I don't know what's made me so depressed about this situation lately.

Maybe it was Francesa's interviews with Jeff and Sandy, what was said during those. I'm not saying those guys don't want to win but they sound very unenthusiastic. Sandy, I just don't trust him anymore.. I feel like you can't take anything he says seriously. Jeff, too.

For example, Jeff says Sandy has an expanded budget. When asked about it later that day, Sandy hesitated for a minute before conceding it, as if spending is a terrible idea.

Sandy promised "major changes" to the roster this off-season. Yet, there have been zero meaningful changes so far and all the free agents are getting gobbled up. So I actually think this team might be worse next season, not better.

Both Jeff and Sandy keep trying to sell us on Lucas Duda as a power threat. Give me a break.

Asked about competing, Jeff notes that there are now two wild card spots. Doesn't say anything about winning the division... or building a world series contender. No, instead he makes it sound like his ultimate goal is to merely be "competitive" and squeak into a wild card. Eff that.

I do think there's some hope, I just think we need a lot of things to bounce our way just to be a 90 win team, and that troubles me. We need Wheeler and/or Harvey to become good; we need the pieces we get back from trading Dickey to become good, we need the Wilpons to most likely sign either an above average outfielder or pitcher in 2014 or for our young of prospects and Mejia/Familia to pan out. I have no faith in this FO, considering they flip flop alot("we value our pitching".. yet Dickey is on the trading block, "we're building for the future"... yet Hairston nor Reyes was moved). We have some quality prospects coming up and baseball is a weird mistress(hell look at the A's or O's last year) so anything can happen.

No matter how I might spin what the other teams have done and what we have (or haven't) we own 4th place in 2013.

Another inspiring season with hope, prayers and wishful thinking to look forward too......

For all you guys who say be patient, - it's been only a quarter century and counting since our last WS banner......quite embarrassing, wouldn't you say?.....

We are New York, shouldn't we be the BEST?

Sorry, no excuses. This is a direct result of poor, management decision-making over the time frame. With the exceptions of 1988, 2000 and 2006, if I'm correct, we've been irrelevant. Just by writing this gets my blood boiling.

Oh well, time for another high blood pressure pill.....

Let us just hope that one of any three pitchers we bring up from our farm system and I don't care whom, pitches effectively and consistently for us.

Everyone wants to hitch their wagon on 2014 because of our Farm System. I have been a Met fan since 1994 I've seen this kind of Philosophy a few times now. Remember "Justin Huber" "Phillip Humber" "Aaron Heilman" "Grant Roberts" all of those guys? We can easily have a new Dynasty coming up from the farm, or we can have another Generation K -_-. I wish the team would have just been honest and said "We;re rebuilding" instead they do nothing every off season, then try to tell us that we're going to be competitive. I have been watching Baseball since I was 8 years old, I know Talent when I see it, don't lie to me.

Oh no, it's all going to fall into place overnight, don't worry, this is the plan, don't spend any money, don't improve the team at all for years and years, build a culture where losing is acceptable and even greenlit by the FO and ownership - but as soon as the last pitch is thrown next season, everything will come up rosy for the Mets.

Money will fall from the skies FA's will be desperate to come to a loser org. without having to overpay, and most importantly players who have no idea how to win, suddenly start winning.

Well i see them doing quite a bit going into 2014, they've basically cornered themselves into doing it with how vocal they have been about having more flexibility after next season.

They have to make an attempt at winning because otherwise they will continue to lose significant revenue as less and less people show up. They'll be lucky to break 2 million this year and that's only if this team starts off well.

It's counterproductive not to, the most money they would make through the season is based on attendance and gameday related revenue at the ballpark.

But they don't. That's the problem, you can't tell a fan base that you plan on being competitive then can't even invest in a decent player. We have spent the last three season going after scrap heap players. Want to know something funny? And this is in no way an endorsement to Omar, but the people who are doing well for the mets, they were his pickups.

We have no hope because we're going to be stuck in a 4th place limbo for a while. Re-signing David Wright didn't help either and I'll explain why.

If it's true Wilpons will not open up the checkbook (or if it's true that he short on money), then we had to rebuild. The Beltran-for-Wheeler deal was exactly the right start, because it got us a legit piece for the future. Then they blew it by not trading Reyes when he could have racked is in a ton (it was his career year for crying out loud.....a team would have overpaid prospect wise). They just blew it again this year by not trading Wright, Dickey, and Santana in June/July when their stocks were at an all time high. We could have robbed a team or two blind and gotten a few "Wheelers" from other teams. I know fans will say "but in June we were still in it", but everyone and their grandmothers knew it was a fluke (bad OF and no bullpen even in victories). Now we re-signed Wright to be a 30+ year old good player on a mediocre 4th place team that will just feature 29-33 year old plug-ins. If we're going to lose, I'd rather gather more prospects like Wheeler and let the kids play. It would have built a future. Now we'll just see plug-ins drag us to 4th place.

I do hold the fans a bit responsible because I remember when I was on these boards in midseason of 2011 screaming that we needed to trade Reyes and a ton of people on this board scram at me "OMG NO, we HAVE to re-sign Reyes, don't you dare just trade him away, if so I'm done with this team, etc". Congrats. If the fanbase had pushed for a trade back then and had not yelled everywhere that trading Reyes was not an option, maybe Sandy and company would have pulled the trigger and gotten us back another Wheeler. This fanbase sometimes makes my head spin. I remember back in 2010 when we were mediocre, and everyone here really thought that we needed to trade for Cliff Lee when we weren't even near being a good team, and our pitching wasn't even our weakness that year. I remember this fanbase swearing in the offseason of 2010-2011 that Ike Davis was way better than Prince Fielder. It's not all of you, but many of you here stated these things. Yikes......

I don't want 4th place finishes with no light at the end of the tunnel. I want to rebuild. If we lose for 2-3 years, it's fine with me if we have a whole new farm and young guys ready to be the future. Instead they re-signed Wright, and now we'll be 4th place with "plug-ins" everywhere, and no prospects in quantity and quality to show for it.

Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.

If the fanbase had pushed for a trade back then and had not yelled everywhere that trading Reyes was not an option, maybe Sandy and company would have pulled the trigger and gotten us back another Wheeler.

The GM should not listen to the fan base. He should make decisions based upon reports and recommendations of scouts in accordance with his plan for the organization. Fans are typically shortsighted, emotional, and ignorant of many facts and factors.

That's what i don't understand either, the team sucks and yes they haven't done much over the last 4 seasons but why bother even having an opinion on the team if someone doesn't think things will change till 2020 at the very earliest?

How is that being a fan?

Go root for another team if that's the case.

Ben? Ben Kenobi? Boy, am I glad to see you.

"You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

I'm a little confused by the coded way that you guys are dancing around who you are talking about...someone mentioned about the signature line of the poster that they are hinting at...and then you said that the poster is banned...except, I don't see a signature line on the poster that is banned that is in this thread (for reference, that poster that I think that you guys are talking about has at least 1 post in page 3 of this thread)...

The GM should not listen to the fan base. He should make decisions based upon reports and recommendations of scouts in accordance with his plan for the organization. Fans are typically shortsighted, emotional, and ignorant of many facts and factors.

sounds like you are almost quoting the delegate from Georgia in 1776...except he was talking about whether he should vote the way that the people want or whether he should vote for his own convictions...He eventually went that his opinion was the right choice over the opinions of his people...

the title of the thread is "How is there any hope?"...not "Being a Mets fan leaves me feeling inspired about today and tomorrow"...It's like on a forum(not here obviously) that allows NSFW types of posts, you click on a thread titled NSFW and then complain that the content is "inappropriate"...which is kind of what NSFW implies...

What do you expect? Ownership's been hammering down fan expectations for years. When Wilpon stole half the club from Doubleday in 1986, the Mets ruled New York. The Yankees were second class citizens.

At this point, fans are brainwashed into thinking the Mets are a small market, loser organization. One look at the players posters here talk about acquiring (scrubs), and the ones they talk about dealing (Wright, Dickey, etc.) shows how much Fred Coupon has poisoned the team and its fans. Everything is backwards.

People expect the worst because they get the worst.

Originally Posted by StoicSentry

I have less and less hope these days. I felt good just a few weeks ago. I don't know what's made me so depressed about this situation lately.

Maybe it was Francesa's interviews with Jeff and Sandy, what was said during those. I'm not saying those guys don't want to win but they sound very unenthusiastic. Sandy, I just don't trust him anymore.. I feel like you can't take anything he says seriously. Jeff, too.

For example, Jeff says Sandy has an expanded budget. When asked about it later that day, Sandy hesitated for a minute before conceding it, as if spending is a terrible idea.

Sandy promised "major changes" to the roster this off-season. Yet, there have been zero meaningful changes so far and all the free agents are getting gobbled up. So I actually think this team might be worse next season, not better.

Both Jeff and Sandy keep trying to sell us on Lucas Duda as a power threat. Give me a break.

Asked about competing, Jeff notes that there are now two wild card spots. Doesn't say anything about winning the division... or building a world series contender. No, instead he makes it sound like his ultimate goal is to merely be "competitive" and squeak into a wild card. Eff that.

Same as always. Fred used to talk about "meaningful baseball in September". It's not good when fans care more about winning than ownership.

sounds like you are almost quoting the delegate from Georgia in 1776...except he was talking about whether he should vote the way that the people want or whether he should vote for his own convictions...He eventually went that his opinion was the right choice over the opinions of his people...

You are equating government with private enterprise and running a baseball team?

But back to 1776, I am not much of a historian, but delegates from Georgia did sign the Declaration of Independence, and Georgia was one of the first states to write a democratic constitution. Thats pretty much all I know about Georgia in 1776. I probably read it on one of the historic signs in downtown Savannah.