At the risk of missing something very obvious (still only a civvie here, bear with me), what kind of moron steals 500 rounds, a smoke grenade and a parachute flare - which seems like an odd combination in and of itself - but then neglects to steal the *gun*?

At the risk of missing something very obvious (still only a civvie here, bear with me), what kind of moron steals 500 rounds, a smoke grenade and a parachute flare - which seems like an odd combination in and of itself - but then neglects to steal the *gun*?

Warrington? FFS, its a sh*thole. I was there today. Its worse than Wiltshire for pointyheads. I stayed just as long as was possible. I can actually make it from here to Gemini Retail Park in an hour and a half, but don't tell the police.

A separate story in today's Scotsman. Great, the judge let the thief off with a nominal rap over the knuckles, accusing the Army of a casual attitude, and calling for an "urgent investigation into the use of live rounds" at Barry Buddon ranges.

"Armalite rifle" hmmm, ignore that bit.

Sat 26 Mar 2005

Danger of army's 'lost' bullets

FRANK URQUHART

A SHERIFF has accused the army of placing lives at risk because of the armed servicesâ "casual attitude" to security surrounding the use of live ammunition at one of the largest military firing ranges in Scotland.

Sheriff Richard Davidson called for an urgent investigation into the use of live rounds at the sprawling Barry Buddon training camp in Angus after it was disclosed that it was possible for members of the public to come across discarded ammunition at the range, which forms part of the Barry Links, one of the most important coastal wildlife sites in Europe.

He declared it was "totally unacceptable" that live rounds could fall into the wrong hands, warning: "This creates an unacceptable public risk."

The Barry Buddon camp has been used as a training base for Britainâs armed forces for more than a century and 150,000 servicemen and women pass through the facility every year. The public can also gain access to the camp, part of a large coastal dune system near Carnoustie, when the range is not being used.

Sheriff Davidson voiced his concerns about the use of live ammunition at the range at Dundee Sheriff Court after he admonished a local Carnoustie man who had been accused of illegally possessing live ammunition he had found close to the range while out walking his motherâs dog.

Daniel Healy, 22, of Brown Street, Carnoustie, had admitted possessing live ammunition without a licence at his former home in Court Street, Dundee, in May of last year.

A police firearms report revealed that the ammunition consisted of ten apparently live bullets from an Armalite rifle, two manufactured in 1992 and eight in 1997.

The court was told that a report by Captain David McGurk, the former assistant commandant and training officer at Barry Buddon, had confirmed it was possible for the public to come across "misplaced" rounds at the range.

Captain McGurkâs report stated: "All weapons and ammunition are brought here by the individual regiments or organisations for use here at this facility. Such regiments and organisations are responsible for the management of all their ammunition and weapons.

"In my experience one or two rounds of ammunition may be lost or misplaced on the range, particularly during nighttime training."

The report continued: "It is the responsibility of the regiment or organisation to ensure the live fire range is cleared up and free from any live ammunition which may have been left inadvertently.

"We ourselves do not hold records for any reported losses, and it would be virtually impossible to establish the loss of any small amount of ammunition about the range."

Admonishing Healy, Sheriff Davidson said that what caused him more concern was "the casual attitude of the armed services" at the camp.

He said: "It is totally unacceptable that material, such as Mr Healy had, could fall into the wrong hands. This creates an unacceptable public risk."

Sheriff Davidson called on both the armed services and Angus Council to investigate the situation. And he declared: "If this is the best that the army can do, then we have a serious problem which should be looked at immediately by them."

A spokesman at the Scottish army headquarters at Edinburgh said: "There are many signs at the Barry Buddon ranges which indicate that live ammunition could be found.

"With 150,000 troops going through Barry Buddon each year, there may be some stray rounds left behind. It is army policy for individual units to do their own housekeeping. It is not the responsibility of the Barry Buddon camp."

Concerns about the levels of security at the camp were also raised last November after five unexploded shells from the Second World War, which had been dug up at the range, disappeared after they were placed in a trench and earmarked for disposal.

Concerns about the levels of security at the camp were also raised last November after five unexploded shells from the Second World War, which had been dug up at the range, disappeared after they were placed in a trench and earmarked for disposal.

OMG, 10 live rounds, such a huge public risk - don't you know that ammo can shoot people by itself? It's so dangerous in and of itself that you can buy it over the counter in France (albeit .222, not .223!)

Concerns about the levels of security at the camp were also raised last November after five unexploded shells from the Second World War, which had been dug up at the range, disappeared after they were placed in a trench and earmarked for disposal.

While roaming round the Dems Pit at BB of a summers evening (skiving) I found an ISFE,2 electrical dets,3 feet of safety fuse(unused),4 feet of det cord(slightly scorched but undamaged) and 3 half-ish sticks of PE 808/PE 4.Being an honest soul(and this was many years ago) I let it lie.

...I found an ISFE,2 electrical dets,3 feet of safety fuse(unused),4 feet of det cord(slightly scorched but undamaged) and 3 half sticks of PE 808/PE 4.... I let it lie.

Click to expand...

Oookay...no idea what ISFE and PE 808/PE 4 refers to beyond "things that go boom" but by the sound of it that was enough material to make a decent sized bomb. Add a few nails, some batteries and a timer, leave in a convenient bin and well...ouch.

The thought occurs that if it's not practical to keep the site sterile (ie, NO lost/discarded munitions), then about the only way to both keep live firing on the range and keep the public safety gurus happy is to keep the public off the site. Which means a big fencing job, plus sentries and maintenance...

Hang on...the report said it was in a coastal area...I have nasty feeling I'm missing something here.