In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : Well, I think Babe gets testy because some people ( or one person with multiple handles) here like to blame only Brady. You are 100% correct, it was a team loss. Never disputed that.Posted by pezz4pats

Well, look, to be completely fair, Brady does deserve blame by the historical standards of this board.

This board laid out those standards quite extensively as it was related to the colts inability to win in the postseason and the superbowl. This board (and I know it doesn't include everyone but there were a significant number of happy Manning bashers at the time, and those who weren't were at least complicit by their silence) had a field day blaming Manning for colts losses regardless of the defense, circumstances, or even Manning's own performance. Nothing mattered except that the colts lost and in doing so all of the blame on this board for those losses was directed at Manning.

Further, all of the praise was directed at Brady for the pats early years of success regardless of defense, circumstances, or his actual performance.

Thus, where this stands, by this board's standard, Brady is ABSOLUTELY TO BLAME for all of the pats losses going back to his last superbowl win.

In fact, the only individuals on this board that can give Brady a pass for those losses are those people that may have defended Manning amidst the losses. We all know that pats fans weren't doing that. I am one of the very few that can defend Brady without hypocrisy.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : It sure was.....It was right up there with that safety Brady threw on the first play of the SB.Posted by CoolPat

C'mon, now you're just being anal. The safety wasn't on Brady and the safety pales next to the pick six. If you want to represent the Colts then represent them well. Saying the safety rises to the pick six is as bad if not worse than labeling Manning a choker.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : Well, look, to be completely fair, Brady does deserve blame by the historical standards of this board. This board laid out those standards quite extensively as it was related to the colts inability to win in the postseason and the superbowl. This board (and I know it doesn't include everyone but there were a significant number of happy Manning bashers at the time, and those who weren't were at least complicit by their silence) had a field day blaming Manning for colts losses regardless of the defense, circumstances, or even Manning's own performance. Nothing mattered except that the colts lost and in doing so all of the blame on this board for those losses was directed at Manning. Further, all of the praise was directed at Brady for the pats early years of success regardless of defense, circumstances, or his actual performance. Thus, where this stands, by this board's standard is the Brady is ABSOLUTELY TO BLAME for all of the pats losses going back to his last superbowl win. In fact, the only individuals on this board that can give Brady a pass for those losses are those people that, at that time in the past, may have defended Manning amidst the losses. We all know that pats fans weren't doing that. I am one of the very few that can defend Brady without hypocrisy. The irony is astonishing.Posted by UD6

I think there were many factors in why those Colt's teams lost...they had a defense that could be run on and worn out, they were playing away...outside in the cold, Manning made some mistakes (he also made some outstanding plays) and the Patriots were a pretty physical...complete team.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : Well, look, to be completely fair, Brady does deserve blame by the historical standards of this board. This board laid out those standards quite extensively as it was related to the colts inability to win in the postseason and the superbowl. This board (and I know it doesn't include everyone but there were a significant number of happy Manning bashers at the time, and those who weren't were at least complicit by their silence) had a field day blaming Manning for colts losses regardless of the defense, circumstances, or even Manning's own performance. Nothing mattered except that the colts lost and in doing so all of the blame on this board for those losses was directed at Manning. Further, all of the praise was directed at Brady for the pats early years of success regardless of defense, circumstances, or his actual performance. Thus, where this stands, by this board's standard is the Brady is ABSOLUTELY TO BLAME for all of the pats losses going back to his last superbowl win. In fact, the only individuals on this board that can give Brady a pass for those losses are those people that, at that time in the past, may have defended Manning amidst the losses. We all know that pats fans weren't doing that. I am one of the very few that can defend Brady without hypocrisy. The irony is astonishing.Posted by UD6

What does the standard of the board have to do with anything? People who either don't know the game or have an axe to grind label Manning a choker. Did he overcome deficiencies on his team in the playoffs? Not enough. Did Brady do that in recent years? Not enough.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : Well, look, to be completely fair, Brady does deserve blame by the historical standards of this board. This board laid out those standards quite extensively as it was related to the colts inability to win in the postseason and the superbowl. This board (and I know it doesn't include everyone but there were a significant number of happy Manning bashers at the time, and those who weren't were at least complicit by their silence) had a field day blaming Manning for colts losses regardless of the defense, circumstances, or even Manning's own performance. Nothing mattered except that the colts lost and in doing so all of the blame on this board for those losses was directed at Manning. Further, all of the praise was directed at Brady for the pats early years of success regardless of defense, circumstances, or his actual performance. Thus, where this stands, by this board's standard is the Brady is ABSOLUTELY TO BLAME for all of the pats losses going back to his last superbowl win. In fact, the only individuals on this board that can give Brady a pass for those losses are those people that, at that time in the past, may have defended Manning amidst the losses. We all know that pats fans weren't doing that. I am one of the very few that can defend Brady without hypocrisy. The irony is astonishing.Posted by UD6

Who gave Brady all the credit? Certainly not me as I'm well aware that it takes a village. He did have some late game heroics which personified things (not unlike Eli) but some one had to catch those passes and get the ball back to him.Some people here like to blame Brady because he was not able to score in the last 35 or 57 seconds in a game, after having the lead up until that point, which I find ludicrous.The difference I see in Peyton ( whether justified or not) is that although he had a knack for those late game heroics in the regular season, you rarely saw them in the Post season. Because of that, pick 6's to end the game, stick out like a sore thumb.There's a vast difference in not being able to score in the final seconds and out right handing the other team the win in those remaining seconds. JMO

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : C'mon, now you're just being anal. The safety wasn't on Brady and the safety pales next to the pick six. If you want to represent the Colts then represent them well. Saying the safety rises to the pick six is as bad if not worse than labeling Manning a choker.Posted by BabeParilli

OK Babe now explain how a safety by a QB who is not under pressure is not the QB's fault.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : What does the standard of the board have to do with anything? People who either don't know the game or have an axe to grind label Manning a choker. Did he overcome deficiencies on his team in the playoffs? Not enough. Did Brady do that in recent years? Not enough.Posted by BabeParilli

Babe if anyone here doesn't know the game it's you. You make the dumbest most pathetic excuses of any poster outside of the Jets trolls.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : I think there were many factors in why those Colt's teams lost...they had a defense that could be run on and worn out, they were playing away...outside in the cold, Manning made some mistakes (he also made some outstanding plays) and the Patriots were a pretty physical...complete team.Posted by mthurl

Agreed to all, but during the more successful days of the pats, this board would hear nothing of valid reasons beyond manning for colts losses, and heaped praise endlessly on Brady.

We can't apply revisionist history now that the pats are experiencing similar results to the colts.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : What does the standard of the board have to do with anything? People who either don't know the game or have an axe to grind label Manning a choker. Did he overcome deficiencies on his team in the playoffs? Not enough. Did Brady do that in recent years? Not enough.Posted by BabeParilli

And thus, if the choke label applies to Manning as it did on this board, it now also applies to Brady. We cannot change themes because circumstances have now changed, unless, of course, you were one of those few defenders of Manning back in the day.

As someone who was here, I don't remember anyone but other colts fans and myself defending Manning.

As I noted, those who were silent at the time were at least complicit due to their silence.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : Who gave Brady all the credit? Certainly not me as I'm well aware that it takes a village. He did have some late game heroics which personified things (not unlike Eli) but some one had to catch those passes and get the ball back to him. Some people here like to blame Brady because he was not able to score in the last 35 or 57 seconds in a game, after having the lead up until that point, which I find ludicrous. The difference I see in Peyton ( whether justified or not) is that although he had a knack for those late game heroics in the regular season, you rarely saw them in the Post season. Because of that, pick 6's to end the game, stick out like a sore thumb. There's a vast difference in not being able to score in the final seconds and out right handing the other team the win in those remaining seconds. JMOPosted by pezz4pats

This board heaped praise upon Brady as if he was the reason for all of the Pats success, just as they heaped all of the blame on Manning. Yes, the pick six will go down in infamy and Manning will have that hanging over his head forever. But no one talks about the lack of colts defense or lack of special teams.

Remember Hank (no basket hands) Baskett fumbled an onside kick. He's a receiver for goodness sake. No one points out that Brees was nearly perfect for the last 2 1/2 quarters of the game. He went 24-25 with the exception of an intentionally spiked ball to stop the clock. Or that the saints went 4-4 on their last 4 possessions except for the last play of the game (kneel down).

No Manning will not live that play down, but other team deficiencies were lost on this board most likely out of spite for Manning.

I will say it again. No one defended Manning on this board. If you weren't bashing him, you were silent amidst the choker posts. That was the lay of the land. We can't change history now that Tommy is revealing himself in the same way.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : This board heaped praise upon Brady as if he was the reason for all of the Pats success, just as they heaped all of the blame on Manning. Yes, the pick six will go down in infamy and Manning will have that hanging over his head forever. But no one talks about the lack of colts defense or lack of special teams. Remember Hank (no basket hands) Baskett fumbled an onside kick. He's a receiver for goodness sake. No one points out that Brees was nearly perfect for the last 2 1/2 quarters of the game. He went 24-25 with the exception of an intentionally spiked ball to stop the clock. Or that the saints went 4-4 on their last 4 possessions except for the last play of the game (kneel down). No Manning will not live that play down, but other team deficiencies were lost on this board most likely out of spite for Manning. I will say it again. No one defended Manning on this board. If you weren't bashing him, you were silent amidst the choker posts. That was the lay of the land. We can't change history now that Tommy is revealing himself in the same way. Posted by UD6

I Think the teams themselves are more on the same level now as The D's weren't great. However, I think Peyton's worst D was better than what the Pats had last year.I think in the earlier years the team as a whole was better for the Pats but they were winning with a first year , still wet behind the ears, QB. who could have been a detriment but instead became a hero..Unfortunately, living up to that hero status has become difficult because the dynamic of the team has changed, and people still expect him to be that hero.Again, Eli became the hero because no one expected anything from him.The difference is, It's always been expected from Peyton due to his regular season success, except that in the post season, that hero rarely appeared.

Do you know that the last years, last place, Colt's teams D was better than the one the Pats brought to the SB? That one game against the Saints actually made them appear worst than they were.To me, it's hard to put the blame on TB there when you consider the circumstance. I'm sure all the bashers and haters will disagree, but I really don't give a dam.!

I Think the teams themselves are more on the same level now as The D's weren't great. However, I think Peyton's worst D was better than what the Pats had last year. I think in the earlier years the team as a whole was better for the Pats but they were winning with a first year , still wet behind the ears, QB. who could have been a detriment but instead became a hero.. Unfortunately, living up to that hero status has become difficult because the dynamic of the team has changed, and people still expect him to be that hero. Again, Eli became the hero because no one expected anything from him. The difference is, It's always been expected from Peyton due to his regular season success, except that in the post season, that hero rarely appeared. Do you know that the last years, last place, Colt's teams D was better than the one the Pats brought to the SB? That one game against the Saints actually made them appear worst than they were. To me, it's hard to put the blame on TB there when you consider the circumstance. I'm sure all the bashers and haters will disagree, but I really don't give a dam.!Posted by pezz4pats

Really? The Colts D gave up 26.9 points per game last season. They were not the worst but better than the Pats? I respect your opinions pezz but I gotta call bullsh!t on that one.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : Really? The Colts D gave up 26.9 points per game last season. They were not the worst but better than the Pats? I respect your opinions pezz but I gotta call bullsh!t on that one. P.S. You can say damn on here.Posted by digger0862

Ya, that 75 point loss kinda screwed that like I said. That one game alone added at least 3 pts to their average. Minus that game they weren't as bad as it seemed and they were better in yards.(15th)

Ya, that 75 point loss kinda screwed that like I said. That one game alone added at least 3 pts to their average. Minus that game they weren't as bad as it seemed and they were better in yards.(15th)Posted by pezz4pats

You're too hung up on that yards allowed thing, in my opinion but it is what it is. :)

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : You're too hung up on that yards allowed thing, in my opinion but it is what it is. :)Posted by digger0862

Ya, I am hung up on it. But that's because I know and we should all know that yards = time and time on D, robs time from O.It also means over-all defensive deficiency, which is why it is used as the standard. Yards also equate to points as you can't get points without getting yards.

Ya, I am hung up on it. But that's because I know and we should all know that yards = time and time on D, robs time from O. It also means over-all defensive deficiency, which is why it is used as the standard. Yards also equate to points as you can't get points without getting yards.Posted by pezz4pats

I hear ya and I hope it improves this year but last season showed it's not an end all be all stat as it didn't slow down the Packers, Patriots, Saints or G-men.

In Response to Re: Brady record against some of our favorite teams. : I hear ya and I hope it improves this year but last season showed it's not an end all be all stat as it didn't slow down the Packers, Patriots, Saints or G-men.Posted by digger0862

No, maybe not the end all be all because all those teams had offenses that could make up for it. (In most cases) Still, it's far from being ideal. It will improve this year. The only way to go is up. Have faith!

No, maybe not the end all be all because all those teams had offenses that could make up for it. (In most cases) Still, it's far from being ideal. It will improve this year. The only way to go is up. Have faith!Posted by pezz4pats

Absolutely! Last year is over. A new season is upon us. Faith and optimism rule supreme. Go Patriots!