Failure to Launch - Male and Stuck at Home

25 years old and stuck—six steps to success

A Quarter Century: Your twenties is the beginning of adulthood, an independent life that belongs to no one else but you. It’s a time when you construct a future; a platform of sorts that will benefit you later down the road. You get a job, learn new skills and try to make relationships work.

After living under a parent’s protective shelter for almost two decades, most people can't wait to move on. It's a developmental moment as basic as a first-grader getting on the bus. There’s some fear; but the thrill of independence trumps everything.

Yet, many twentysomethings today, especially young men, are having trouble with this transition. And, now its public record after David Brooks of The New York Times wrote a compelling piece called "Why Men Fail." Our boys (and some girls) seem to be lacking what is needed for contemporary success—while our girls seem to be doing great.

Case Example: After dropping out of college, Zachary now stays at home and does nothing productive. He has no regular job or even a driver's license. He works a little, but for the most part spends his time at home slacking.

Does Zachary’s experience sound familiar to you? Are you or someone you know simply stuck at home, feeling like child in a co-dependent relationship with your parents?

Avoidant behaviour is a strategy for failure.

Stuck At Home: If you're in your twenties, you probably know people who fit the Avoidant description. If you're a parent, you may have your own Avoider; and any your friends may be co-dependent with a 25-year-old son.

Why has failure to launch become more prevalent these days? First things first; you can't underestimate the destructive power of a terrible economy on a person's psyche. Unlike a baby boomer who grew up in a time of unprecedented growth, today’s opportunities seem to be saturated for generation Y.

With the labor market so competitive, luck and nepotism play much bigger roles in becoming successful. Because luck and nepotism, are external, unstable and uncontrollable factors toward an outcome, the motivation to work hard may decrease for young adults nowadays.

Nonetheless, the external environment is not all to be blamed. I have come to see the problem of failure to launch as being part of an avoidant generational style, at least in a sizable subgroup. The bad economy may sink people like Zachary, but something fundamental is off.

Research has shown that the concept about future is important because it elicits a cognitive representation of the prospective self and directs future-oriented behavior. However, for Avoiders, thinking about the future is simply daunting.

An Avoider uses an avoidant defense mechanism to put off to tomorrow what needs to be done today. He games himself into thinking that all will be fine—tomorrow. So, he smokes weed to cut down on anxiety; plays video games to fill up his time and “connects” on Facebook for endless hours, while living in the room that he grew up in and should have grown out of by now.

To be fair, not everyone who comes home after college is an Avoider. Many naturally use their home as a base of operations as they mobilize. The economy is tough. They need to work and save money. So, healthy young adults come home in order to find internships, jobs or opportunities and look to launch out again at the first opportunity.

The Avoiders that I see have developed a bad habit; which has lead to an injury to their self esteem. Deep inside, they doubt if they really can be independent, take risks and individuate in the increasingly competitive society.

Despite protests to the contrary, Avoiders stay children, dependent on their parents while remaining in their comfort zones. Their avoidance in thinking about the future greatly reduces their motivation to work on long-term goals, and they turn to seek comforts from instant gratification.

What Can Be Done? Everyone is different, so there is no set way to deal with an Avoider that you may know. The problem is multidimensional. Drugs are often involved, but are by no means the only problem. Lack of economic opportunity can undermine motivation. Fear of competition almost always comes up as a factor. And, there is the not-so-unconscious wish to have someone else take care of you. We all have that fantasy every now and then.

Six Steps to Success:

1. The Parent–Child Bond

While some parents may think that they are helping their children to make better decisions and to fix the consequences of their actions, research has shown that parental codependency may alienate children from their own feelings and debilitate them from self-determination. Ultimately, parents may want to consider setting up boundaries for their children, and also for themselves. Consider requiring a contribution to live at home; or perhaps rent or work. Treat your 25 year old as an adult who is part of the management of the house and not a resident, who feels more like a younger child.

2. Criticism Rarely Works

If you are parenting an adult child who is avoidant, they will take your criticism as part of their problem. Make demands, but stay positive. It is good that your son or daughter experience some anxiety. Too little anxiety mutes ambition (like with chronic marijuana users), too much shuts you down. Healthy anxiety makes us sense an urgency to get things done. Avoidant young adults should experience more of this positive anxiety by insistent reminders and encouragements from parents and friends.

I have had many patients like Zachary, and therapy can be incredibly helpful. The key is to objectify the avoidance as a fact of life and engage the stuck patient as a person who wants to be more competent and happy. Occasionally the problem is with the family itself. For instance, in a divorce case, a father may overly encourage dependency because of his depression. In situations like this, a good therapist will try to engage the father in order to help him find a more wholesome place for his neediness.

If there is any major psychiatric problem involved, such as depression and anxiety disorder, it has to be treated as soon as possible. Avoidant young adults may tend to deny their problems and even avoid treatment. Avoidant people suffering from mental health problems simply become more avoidant.

This is easier said than done. Drugs like marijuana have a very popular appeal. Most Avoiders that I’ve worked with claim the party line that weed helps with creativity and is medically legal in many states. Truth be told, marijuana can be a powerful way to avoid feeling the anxiety required to mobilize oneself. While drugs and booze don’t cause avoidance, by and large, they both can be powerful contributors to making it worse. Parents—consider going to Al-Anon. Avoider—consider abstinence.

6. Finally,Get the Ball Rolling

Doing something is always better than waiting for something to happen. Work with avoidant young adults to set up small goals (can be as minor as doing grocery shopping) and encourage them to achieve the goals step-by-step. A small job may open the door to something much better. Focus on a healthy daily routine: getting out the house, living a scheduled life and exercising are moves in the right direction. When you are mobilized in the small things of life, you begin to feel better; and naturally you become open to bigger opportunities if they come your way.

We human beings have a natural drive to grow and thrive on our own. Some young adults struggle with independence, only because they have not realized that they can actually succeed. Remember, empowering Avoiders may not be easy, but it can be achieved.

I'm a textbook example of the avoidant failures you're talking about. Not the worst case, mind you. I have a job, for now, even if it isn't very meaningful to me. I pay my bills, I have an apartment. I exercise on occasion, don't drink much, stopped smoking a while back. Statistically, my social and economic status is average at best.

But my self esteem is shot, and I have no lifelong aspirations or big plans for the future. I've never enjoyed competition. As a kid, I stayed out of the pinata pile and took the candy left after all the fuss was over with. I relax at home and play video games, which is one of my preferred hobbies because I don't have to risk painful social failure and also because they're just a lot of fun and cheaper dollar-per-hour entertainment than a movie. Have you even ever tried one?

I'm not very happy, in no small part because people who define success by the materialistic standards we hold valuable in this culture keep telling me I'm wasting my life. It's plastered on every poster and television, in the looks of pity from my extended family, and the expectations of my employers that I have some kind of false enthusiasm for a job any one of 7 billion other people could do if I wasn't here.

You want to know what changed in this generation? Information. When I feel proud about something I've accomplished, all it takes is three minutes on YouTube to find an 8 year old child across the planet who was doing a better job.. when she was 4. You say I'm not motivated? Damn right. Even if I never rise above the lowest class in this country, I have more clean water and food than starving cultures in Africa. Where is my benchmark? What am I even trying to accomplish? I used to be trying to impress people like you, but I never felt any better and just ended up more stressed out from the effort.

You think I want someone else to take care of me. That's not true most of the time, I royally hate feeling like a burden. But I don't need a nice car, or a small mansion, or a six figure job to survive. I don't need to have a pipe dream. I don't want to be a movie star, or an astronaut, or a doctor. Maybe those people got a rush from clawing to the bottom of the pinata pile, and they probably got the best candy. Not me. I just want to be content with who I already am, and you aren't helping me even though I know that's what you're trying to do.

You are giving my extended family a good reason to pity me, though. I can't express to you how much that hurts.

I'm female. At age 25 I was using my hard-earned college degree in a well-paid job. The company gave me a company car and an expense account. Everyone on the outside I was doing pretty well. What people didn't know was that my boss hated me, he wasn't the one who hired me and he thought women shouldn't be working for him. The man did everything in his power to make my life miserable. Even though I was the most productive person on my work team he fired me, to replace me with the secretary who he was having his affair. I got another job with another miserable employer, where I worked 70 hours a week, drank too much in order to relieve my misery and my life didn't improve much. Each new well-paid job was worse than the one before. The big money turned out to be green stuff I put in the bank.

A few years ago I got off the ride. I now work for a long-time friend. I pay my bills and save some money, but my life isn't flashy. My family thinks I have made a huge mistake. I'm much happier.

Aaron, if you are satisfied and content don't waste the years I did trying to impress. It isn't worth it. Don't let these idiot psychological professionals on this site tell you what is right for you. They aren't living in your shoes. If I could do it all over again I would have never tried to kill myself clawing my way to the top.

To Anonymous,
The world is so unfair. It just is.
And, the world of money and bosses is not great.
A man who has contempt for a woman because she is a woman is a disturbed artifact of our culture.
It hurts me to read about it.

Your story is about hard work, earnest effort and bad luck.
I sense the bitterness, and understand it.

I hope you have found pleasure in working for your friend (although situations like this can have their own drawbacks sometimes as well). It is a good ending to the story.

One thing though; Sometimes stories like this are used by Avoiders to avoid further. They say to themselves, "why bother, look what happened to Anonymous."

I am not criticizing. You have found your way.

But hundreds of people may read this and one or two may use this story as a reason not to give up weed, or quit a job that going somewhere, or simply play more video games.

Aaron,
I am very moved by your response.
And, I was educated by it.
I found this incredibly interesting.......

"You want to know what changed in this generation? Information. When I feel proud about something I've accomplished, all it takes is three minutes on YouTube to find an 8 year old child across the planet who was doing a better job.. when she was 4. You say I'm not motivated? Damn right."

We all need to feel special. And life is a combination between feeling special and realizing that we are but a grain of sand in this universe. Has there been some deep cultural undermining of the dignity of every human being? Does my life really count? Does yours?

In my mind, our lives do count. Each one is a blessing.

The Rat Race: I am not interesting in you (or anyone else) participating in our collective rat race. I just hope that you don't abdicate any dreams to depression, poor economics, an avoidant style or smoking weed everyday. Sometimes young men and women are avoidant because they are burdened without knowing it.

There are many dreams to live.

The big house is just one. For others it is a simple life.

The key, however is to sense your own dignity and have the capability to establish your life as you want it - not as a default position, but as an embraced statement about who you are and want to be.

Aaron, as you've pointed out, you're quite capable. You don't "hate" feeling like a burden or you wouldn't be. You have needs to be met regardless if there are starving people in the world. Taking steps toward independence is something to be proud of and will promote self esteem, it doesn't matter what an 8 year old across the planet does... you mention those who have less than you as some sort of demotivator, the best way to feel good about yourself is to do something for someone else.

When you get my age, you look back on your life, in terms of decades and looking forward... well, suffice it to say, much shorter periods of time. You are in the defining decade of your life, look at what you've wrote, is that really how you want to mold the rest of your life?

Now I know you've been told it'll all go by so fast, like just about everyone above 30 tells you that no doubt, and when you're 25 it doesn't resonate. Do the math.. and don't wait until you're 30 to start creating the life you want... if you live to an average age, a third of it is gone, and those supporting you... they're probably already in the third of their life where you stop looking toward the future in terms of decades. You will never again have the energy, vitality, and bright mind you have right now, even your gaming will start falling off now. Please consider how fast the last quarter century went by. You want to be proud of yourself? I don't see how anyone could look back on the best years of their life and be happy about achieving the next level of WOW... listen to all the stories people tell, how many are reliving the life they had during the decade you're in now... start making your own stories, that's not something to avoid... or achieve, and can't be done from a video dungeon.

I've retired and I live a simple life. I have a nice small home and spend my time landscaping (my yard) and pursuing a few hobbies. I have everything I need. My wants are a different story, which is mostly more hobbies and more interests. I walked away from the rat race and looking back, I don't see that I lost anything, but actually gained peace of mind.

If I could go back in time, I would want more interesting jobs, jobs that exercised my mind and that would be interesting to me. That is the only change I would make.

BTW, I'm teaching myself to play the piano and it's a lot of fun. I know that I will never be great (or even good) compared to some people, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that I enjoy it and I'm amazed at what I can do. Although it takes a lot and I mean a lot of practice.

As for what people consider success, that depends on the individual. For many, it's about money, recognition and power. To me that is a waste of a persons life. Life is too short to waste it on personal achievement for the sake of achievement.

I have to tell you that life is a wondrous thing, amazing, in fact. The people I admire are the ones who experience as much of it as they humanly can. For them, money or job titles don't describe the person they are.

Today's youth seem to be ticking to a different drum beat and that is
fine. Perhaps as they see capitalism working for very few it is natural that young people are, right now, developing new views of goals. If failing to grasp a few crumbs at the bottom of the pinata pile doesn't work anymore -- well maybe an entirely new way of being is what must emerge. That is what you see before your eyes as young people say: "I'm not you. I'm doing things my way. And, your bench marks of success don't apply to me." Remember, these youth are the old people of tomorrow and whatever the Baby boomers think 'success' is, that mindset will not be what exists in the future. Love you, young people. Keep thinking YOUR way. You are humanity's future.

agreed not all pills are for everyone... but does not mean the right pill can't help the right person and I agree for the most part use of Marijuana is quite benign. But... if a side effect of MJ you're personally experiencing is demotivation, nuff said.

I am the Father of a "slacker". However, I would never use that word -- It's insulting and there is little value in insulting people.

My wife and I have run the gamut of ways to address the issue, until we stepped back and tried to understand what was different from our time.

I grew up in the 60's and 70's. At that time parents were very traditional, but social change began to eat away at convention. The expectation was to go to college, get a job, get married and have a family. To remain single meant being a social outcast and worse, being suspected of being Gay.

Getting married was ultimately the great motivator for young men. We were expected to impress women into marrying us.

At least it started out that way.

Our children were witness to a 50% divorce rate, horrible child custody fights, the media driven "war between the sexes" and an overall cynicism of marriage and long-term relationships.

The stigma of being unpaired, has pretty much vanished and being suspected of being Gay is no longer a reason to panic. A sexual mores have loosened to the point where boys have learned that they don't need to do much to get sex.

Change One: Marriage and impressing women is no longer a motivator.

Having a career was the best way to secure the future. My Dad used to say that I needed to get into a company and stay there in order to build up a pension. Time used to be an issue -- better get moving if you want a future.

Pensions are gone, so are long-term employment positions.

These kids have all the time in the World.

Change 2: There's plenty of time.

What I have seen is that when my son's find a "mission" they fire right up and get moving.

Being a "slacker" myself, I can throw in some things that may or may not have something to do with the issue, but I feel have some influence:

- I was lulled into a sense that I could be anything I wanted if I simply went to college and wished really hard. When the cold hard reality started hitting that maybe I wasn't as good as I was hyped up to be, no "regular" job was enough to satisfy these grandiose dreams.

- I was born in the early 80s and grew up with big macho men as role models. However, over the 90s and beyond, a lot of what was considered manly began to look crude and politically incorrect. Most modern male role models are effeminate and proper, a stark contrast to what I viewed as "manly" as a child.

- The internet. This is huge. Where to begin...: Porn, social media (look at ME being cool!), video games, increasing awareness of sociopolitical issues that are completely out of our hands (due to corruption, et al). This is the information age, but no one seems to be sifting through the information that is spread. It's a free-for-all, and everyone has an opinion. There are a lot of lies and misinformation, not to mention just a lot of varied valid opinions that differ fundamentally from each other. It's basically too many choices, and not enough time to try all of them out (and without guidance, even the lies and misinformation can sneak into our lives).

I don't want to "blame" other things for my failures. Ultimately, my failure to move on is my own fault. I just find that the advice I grew up with was crafted in a very different world, one that is no longer compatible with the one I ended up growing up in.

To the older generations, failure is the failure to meet the expectations of their day -- times have changed.

To women, failure is the failure to be the kind of man that fulfills HER needs -- Her needs are her problem - not yours.

To the media, failure is anything they can promote as a "disturbing trend" or a "modern problem". Their goal is to alarm readers into buying their magazines and click on their headlines.

All that matters is your definition of failure. I'm sure that there is legitimate overlap with the definitions of others and society at large, but it is important to be okay with your own timetable and ambitions.

Then you can move on in your direction and on your time table.

All decisions have consequences. Everything is a tradeoff and we all need to accept that.

Well, as the parent of a 21 year old doing nothing and going nowhere, I can tell you. "Failure" is very easy to define -- it is not doing anything at all to live your own life when one has the capability to do so, living on the labor of one's parents mooching food, shelter, and other comforts. "Failure" is not providing for oneself when one is an adult and is fully capable of doing so. It has nothing to do with whether one goes to college, or what kind of job/occupation one has. It means supporting yourself. Period.

Well, as the parent of a 21 year old doing nothing and going nowhere, I can tell you. "Failure" is very easy to define -- it is not doing anything at all to live your own life when one has the capability to do so, living on the labor of one's parents mooching food, shelter, and other comforts. "Failure" is not providing for oneself when one is an adult and is fully capable of doing so. It has nothing to do with whether one goes to college, or what kind of job/occupation one has. It means supporting yourself. Period.

Hopefully, when you are old and dependant on your children, they don't see you as a "moocher" eating THEIR food.

BTW: My son was a "slacker" at 21. Now at 25 he is doing great in college in a technical field and will probably do better than I did.

Things change -- be careful you don't say things to your kids you will regret later.

Hi,
I agree.
It seems to me that many of your peers are ill equipted to deal with a lousy economy and poor opportunity. In part it was a bad combination of parenting attitudes and a changing work place.

Inaction, smoking too much weed or depression are not answers, but they can be understood as a response to frustration and worry.

It's just that life continues to move forward.
If you don't move with it, you suffer.
It is not fair, but it is, more or less, true.

Dear Zoot,
Thanks for the comment.
Much has changed and the impact on young men may be real.
Social changes, job scarcity and the decreasing return on hard work in college.
Many people are affected.

This topic requires more attention because many people are suffering. There are those who are living a simpler life and don't want to be burdened by the pressures of an upwardly mobile culture. There are those who simply like a simpler life. There are those who live at home for a few years, while they regroup. And there are those who are held down by depression, anxiety, chemical dependent behavior or simply avoidance.

I hope everyone gets more curious about what can be done.

The word slacker is evocative. I used it as a title in order to bring attention to the subject.
However, I am thinking of changing the title if indeed it is hurtful.

I wrote a piece called Our Dependent Boys a few weeks back.
This may be a less provocative title.

I grew up in a rural area. There is a subset of slacker boys who quite easily fly under the radar. Those are the boys who marry quite young--as in common in small rural communities--and hide their slacker ways behind their wives apron strings.

It is quite common for country boys to trade mom for wife-and-a-trailer as soon as legal (or before). The wives generally work two jobs, handle all child raising (cultural), keep everything clean and keep up with local social norms while the boys are out with the guns and dogs huntin' --when they aren't working a token minimum wage, perpetual unemployment, general labor type job.

There's a reason women run country churches--slacker boys who fly under the radar because they are "married with children", but aside from the wife, participate in all the actions of a slacker. The wife simply has (and is part of the parlance) one more "over 21" kid. It's an expected, perpetuated, social norm.

You hnow, having Autism(which isn't the advantage news magazines has perked it up to be) and being an Otaku at the same time, it's hard to be excepted by people for who you really are. I suppose why I still live with my parents is because of a lack of money, social stupidity and downright zero self confidence. I am 24 and have never been with a woman.I do not expect to be. I know my kind is not valued in any country and we're all blamed for our situations, like your article does.Nice going, it's like your actually goading people into suicide.Wouldn't want to get sued over that, would you?

I am 5 years older than you, and I was in the same spot 5 years ago (minus the autism). This is what I have learned since, and hopefully this will help you become who you want to be:

Learn social skills. I know autism makes it difficult, but if you're going to dedicate your life to anything, this should be it. I am an introvert, and I hate making small talk with people. I hate talking about nonsense, and in general, most topics that I find interesting don't interest others, and vice versa.

So why bother? Because you need society. You need connections to find jobs. You need friends to meet women and to keep your life in check. We also just flat out need social contact. We're social animals, and being isolated from people can be detrimental to our mental health (studies seem to indicate that socialization keeps the mind from deteriorating as fast due to aging)

Pick up books on business etiquette, study body language, learn to chit chat, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. This could very well change your life.

I wish I would have paid attention to this stuff when I was younger. I never understood the point of socialization, because most people just do it without explanation. Maybe they just like it. Since I didn't like it, and no one explained the benefits, it took a back burner in my life, but now I am struggling to undo the damage.

These are very good points.
I do not believe that people should be shamed because of their issues.
I would not want anyone to feel that they are to be blamed for having autism, depression or even chemical dependencies.
And I agree that culture often needs to blame people who are struggling and that is wrong.

My goal - and maybe I was unsuccessful - is to point out that there may be things that people can do to better themselves. For instance, if a person is depressed, a consultation with a therapist could make a difference. If someone is feeling suicidal, a call to a hotline like 1-800-273-8255 could be essential. Or, if someone is smoking a lot of weed, it's possible that it may be undermining their motivation.

If any of my readers feel blamed, I take it on myself as a failure in writing, because it is not may intention to blame.

On, the other hand, if my readers become curious about how they may feel a bit better, then I have done something useful in this piece.

Well I guess its just fate I hit this page as of this very late hour. The hour of an unemployed, depressed, and educated (Bachelor of Fine Arts) slacker would function at. All I know is history is about to be rewritten because lets face it, the American Dream is outdated. Its healthier and financially more stable to remain single, most women make more money because of their motivation and hard work, and I like many others who come out with said degree are lost in the unforgiving workforce.
I guess I'm just deterred from my dreams, graduating took so much out of me I feel completely unmotivated to continue. It almost feels like I got kicked out of college instead of graduated because the education stopped and I haven't made a painting since.
Now officially today I received the infamous letter from a creditor reminding me of the money I owe in school debt and mind you I did start saving money, but sadly my last job has been seasonal and so have the past 2 others. Without consistent income I won't survive, but I feel so self-conflicted to work at the no good jobs that will offer great hours at minimum wage. Also KNOWING these were the jobs I would leave behind with said degree or being overqualified has been another issue as well. Its sad I think I have unintentionally insulted more people by mentioning I have a degree like I'm someone amazing.
Well let me tell you something, I'm not, and I have nothing to show for this paper with a disembodied education.
The bummer is most of my friends who didn't go to school are doing great financially because they have been consistent with work and have no intention of going to school. I might consider pushing my academia further, but for 90,000$ maybe later. I promise for the sake of other slackers here and myself included, I am going to find a decent job, I will find a way to make art on the side and live on and hopefully be independent.
But this BS about going to college solving so many problems is a problem of its own and it needs to be addressed on an educational level where it matters. So many go without reason, so many go without motivation. Only if you need to go, it should matter.

I feel sad reading through these...I feel even more sad to learn that most of these are the voices of men. I do think our loss of value is in part due to feminism, but I see us in flux and I believe there is a destination or re-shaping on the horizen, but we are getting lost in our own feelings of ambiguity.
I am facsinated by the obsession with zombies these days. I think so many of us are relating to the 'walking dead'...especially male friends of mine who are struggling with ambition and confidence.
I agree with one poster who said social media and information are shaping our sense of insignificance...but I tend to think the opposite...I like being insignificant. I like being reminded that my powers to change a life are comfortably limited to a smile, holding the door for someone or being a thoughtful and reliable friend.
It makes me wonder when we all shifted and began feeling so unloved and so out of touch with the simple and good things around us all the time. So, may I also add that I love our equal obsession with puppies and kittens. I really think those captioned pictures help. :)

When you use feminism to excuse a slacker lifestyle, you're not helping anyone. You're just using feminism as a crutch, something to blame instead of looking at real issues.

I see many groups of men blaming women and feminists and I find it stunning but predictable. It's easy to get into a negative state of mind and lash out at women. This is what men are raised to do and this has to change.

Lashing out at women or feminism is not productive. Feminism has nothing to do with this. I would love to hear an explanation as to how feminism did this to slackers. Women demanding equality did this to you? Women wanting reproductive rights did this to you? Women finally gaining some economic power did this to you?

The lauding of women's rights has brought many positive changes for females (and I would know, I am one). But as much as women have been raised up into their potential, young men also need to be helped to achieve. This means not only education that fits how men-learn (more hands on, less sitting passively in school at a desk); jobs that pay enough money for young men to forge their futures; stop the lie that a college degree equals success when mostly it equals debt the same as a mortgage was in the past; housing that is closer to salaries rather than eons away; divorce laws that stop viewing men as bank machines only, and a society at large that values men every bit as much as women. Right now things are skewed more in favour of aggressive pretty females and average men are being left behind in so many ways. Until both sexes have equal opportunities in society at large nothing will be in balance. Promote women. Promote men. Promote both. Not one sex at the expense of the other sex.

>But as much as women have been raised up into their potential, young men also need to be helped to achieve.

That is a grade 'A' sappy misguided and unfounded platitude.

The notion that young men's laziness has anything to do with promotion of women is a specious excuse for basic indolence. I know by experience.

At eighteen, I was a pot smoking lazy slacker. I dropped out of art school in the first year. In the morning, my father would push the bedroom door open and sternly bark, "It's time to get up and go to work!" My reaction was to leave home and be a slacker elsewhere. So I slacked at the apartment of a pot-head drummer friend who laid carpet all day; I was an unemployed bum.

My slacker syndrome had nothing to do with "promotion of women" or any other such nonsense. My problem was deep insecurity and lack of confidence, masquerading as laziness.

After a couple of years of playing bar gigs with the band, and having experienced chronic vague anxiety and occasional mild panic, I had an epiphany: I somehow privately realized that it was easier to coast along while others took care of business. Although it was a vague realization, it was enough to prod me into a slow emotional migration from dependency toward independence. That was the beginning of personal responsibility, which took several years to further develop.

I eventually developed a stable and enjoyable career, raised two kids, paid off my house, etc.

The point is: neurotic slackers like me can GROW UP.

Slackers of any adult age or gender should simply get off their asses, get moving, and get some accomplishment into their pathetic lives. Only then will they have any self respect and be able to become worthwhile contributing members of society.

We don't have to be great to have greatness.
Sometimes it is small, like being kind.
Sometimes it is holding together a relationship against all odds.
Sometimes it is doing homework with your ten year old even though you are EXHAUSTED.

It's hard on men these days.
But, history is a moving target.
Things will change.

As a 33 year old male, I feel like I missed out on my chance to launch. My 20's- those crucial years of independence- were spent trying to attend college but never being able to get through it. Various jobs I had were low paying and dead end. Nothing seemed to work. . I was never a drinker or drug user, just nothing ever materialized- Eventuallly I withdrew and just distracted myself with games, friends, or just my own thoughts and dreams. The key word: Avoidance. I never thought much of it but one day it hit me like cold water on the face.

It didnt dawn on me until 30-something- seeing my friends move on, get married and have kids, while i stayed stuck. people much younger than me who seemed more grown up- who had gone through the stages of becoming an independent adult - painful stuff. I felt more and more like I just fell through the cracks and basically disabled in a sense. The thing is- the longer this goes on- the harder it becomes to establish your independence. The concrete starts to set. It gets to the point where you can never imagine fending for yourself. As a 30 something man, nothing is more depressing than the thought of being powerless and falling further and further down.

Only recently has it become more clear to me that I have suffered all these years from depression/anxiety= a debilitating illness. It went untreated because of all these distractions. Whether a result of external or internal forces- it is something that ruins people

I don`t want to say how old I am, I`m sure I am older than all of you. My sister disappeared when I was seven. I was told at the age of eight she was a child prostitute (age 14)living on the street. She could not stand the beatings by my mother who is an alcoholic. I thought she had it bad but I was wrong because she was put in foster care and `got out`, I didn`t.
When I was 19 I wanted to learn to drive but was told by my mother that I will never drive a car as long as I live. I took a driver`s manual from a desk in the living room and my parents were both very angry when I was caught reading it. I was not allowed to own a computer or learn how to use one because they are only about `video games` and have no value. Eventually, I defied them and bought a computer and taught myself. I am also still not allowed to do laundry, vacuum or use the stove. When I did these things out of necessity and was caught it was always very bad. I was severely depressed and agoraphobic by that time and suffered with it for 11 years. I would have loved to go to college or even just study anything.
I live in a rural area and have no access to any type of transportation. My family has always ignored me and never spoken to me about my situation. I am completely invisible. If there was a way out I would take it.
I have only worked a little at odd jobs all illegal usually for about 5 dollars a day.
If I knew my life would end up this way, I would have killed myself a long time ago. Living has NOT been worth it.

I should probably add, that I am female.
I have been reading a lot about this issue and I think these psychologists and much of society has it wrong.
I think that these parents are master manipulators and tell people what they need to to make themselves look like `supportive` parents.
My parents frequently tell people horrible lies about me. I am forbidden to try anything to escape my situation (like learn to drive) because my family thinks I am incompetent and happy to be where I am. I am frequently told I am crazy and sick.
I am constantly encouraged to do nothing because then there will be no problems.

Whew... this has been a depressing thread to read through, with the exception of one or two cheer leaders. The person who sees themselves as a victim typically remain victims... those who perceive themselves as capable tend to be.

It's easy to point at many socio economic trends as underlying issue, but doesn't explain why this is a predominantly male problem... and doesn't necessarily indicate feminism to be the culprit either as one author above points out... girls often just work harder. Why?

What has changed to create this new, less improved under-motivated 20 something male?

As a parent of one, I honestly can only see one common thread that seems to cross all socio economic groups, enabling and or abusive parents (girls have those too) and something which tends to be less attractive to females for whatever reason... Video games. Are they the source of all evil? Of course not. Can they be hugely entertaining? of course....

If you're honest young people, that is the one thing that is so different from my generation. We got outside and found outlets for stress and creativity that had nothing to do with blue light shining out from underneath our bedroom doors at all hours of the day and night.

...and I strongly feel the gaming, which puts the gamer in a constant state of flight or fight, and adrenaline rush has created a generation of young men suffering from adrenal crash... google the symptoms, incredibly easy to make a correlation here. I understand correlation doesn't necessarily represent causation, but here's another common denominator repeatedly discussed above... lack of control over our environment, and gaming provides complete autonomy, even omnipotence... and I strongly feel there is a causation related to excessive gaming that leads one to give up control over our environment to someone else that pays the bills.

I recently took my 20 something son's computer away from him, condition for getting it back is taking steps toward independence, and he has completely shut down. After sleeping or pretending to sleep several days I went in to his room to try and have a conversation with him about there being something very wrong... he said he had nothing better to do. Case and point... he made it much easier for me to feel taking that computer away was the absolutely right thing to do and wish I had done it sooner.

Been thinking about all this, and I really love to try and boil things down... make it simple, life is complicated enough as it is... and this is what has come out of my contemplations on this subject and think it quite profound and feel responsible to share it. I do not claim any responsibility insight when it comes, but here it is, hope someone finds it helpful.

I just wrote on my mirror in the entry way of my house, and this is what can be read as people look at themselves in the mirror, myself included;

2/3 of our college students are FEMALE. Our school systems are failing boys. In the UK, by the age of 8 boys believe "girls are smarter than boys" and believe adults believe this stereotype. Education is failing boys...but god forbid we say that...instead let's diagnose another disorder-"avoidant"...just like, say, we suddenly decided boys being boys was ADHD (a psychological "success" of wonderful proportions given that even WITH all the drugs schools still fail boys).

Or how about this: The majority of the long term unemployed are male.

Oops, nope...let's not look at WHY this happens, or help give those men the skills they need with more education-let's just "classify" them as "avoidant".

We have spent 40 years telling men that their "default switch" is rapist ("Teach men not to rape") that they are dumber than girls, that they are nothing but slobs and slackers (watch ANY TV comedy for THIS trope), that they are "guilty by reason of sex" of "oppressing all women everywhere", and then when the response is "fine, I want nothing to do with YOUR society" we then blame them for being "avoidant"? Seriously?

"We need to give them psychotehrapy to motivate them". Then we can give them other drugs...claiming what, ADHD...oh wait, we're doing that already.

The proper question is NOT "what do we diagnose". The proper question si "What is it about our society that is CAUSING so many boys to drop out, so many men not to go to college, so many males to withdraw from marriage, society and the like". The OTHER important question is, why do we think that males "Must" do ANYTHING just becasue they're male?

What? How does a man having problems have anything to do with feminism? Explain this to me.

Yes, we have an incredible problem with rape and most rapists are men so we teach men and women what consent is. I have yet to see anything in society or feminism that says all men are rapists. What a cop-out you're bringing to this conversation.

Blaming women and feminism is just a cop-out. If women gaining some a tiny bit of economic and social power has done this to you then I think you need to look at yourself for why you're blaming women.

Men are not entitled to power because they're male. Women have been held back for centuries because they were female.

Feminism is actually the best thing that's happened in our society because it recognizes gender roles as a culprit. You don't have to like feminism but being against it and blaming all feminism for men's problems is a cop-out.

The unseen tsunami in poor mental health is about to come ashore in a big way. My son and almost all his friends have gone through over a decade devoted to gaming and cyber addiction to the point that nothing really interests them anymore, even earning a living. Many problems develop to complicate this problem including depression and other mental afflictions similar to PTSD,etc. Step one should be to eliminate gaming and watch over time as the avoider starts to return to reality. Not easy, but step two is to study meditation to help develop discipline and right thinking for the future. Exercise is a big help too. There is a solution, and the good Dr. is right about getting the drugs out of the picture too. Therapy is essential. But what kind? My son seems to be making some progress with a Jungian, but personally I would put more faith in a therapist that practices some kind of goal oriented brief therapy. For sure, when they express ideas that suggest living with the parents indefinitely it is time to tell them that this is NOT going to be a long term arrangment. Now somebody please tell me how to get them out the door after you have done all that as they will continue to use you for free rent and food just as long as you allow in some cases..I am still waiting to address this point.

Here is a different take on males & gaming. What if parents were to encourage their young males to take computer courses in school, to develop websites and products. Instead of saying: "No computers."
What about saying: "I see you are passionate about computers. How can you make this your life's work?" (which leads to amazing creativity, and new vistas beyond simply, passively playing a game. ) What if playing the game is but a 1st step that leads to later working in and around the 'gaming' community and computers in general? This is the type of thinking that takes what young males are interested in and runs with it. Something like how a young girl enjoys sewing and becomes a designer, ending up with her own line of clothing which she sells.
Advice here is this: think outside the box with your young males and it will be good :D

Why should I launch... I was a college valedictorian in a large state school in a STEM field. Now unemployed and no desire to work at all. Why should I, so I can loose everything and be enslaved to an ex-wife that cheated. I'd rather not get married. I would have been willing to work hard but I saw the new rules to the game and said no thanks this game isn't worth playing. So i'm supposed to work hard to provide for a late 20s early 30s woman whose looks are plummeting when some jock got her for nothing while she was in her prime. No thanks, I'd rather just watch youtube, live in a small apartment by the beach and work a few hours a week. More and more men are realizing there is no longer incentive to work hard and support a family. There is little reward and lots of risk so we opt out and walk away. Have fun ladies, were not going to support you and be a work horse while your an ugly prune from 30-90 if we didn't get your early 20s. If a flower dealer waits till his flowers are wilted to sell them, he isn't going to get full price and full price. And sorry the risk of losing half your assets isn't worth marrying a girl that 70% of the time will be obese. I'll take porn any day over an obese or overweight unappreciative land whale. I'm certainly not going to work my ass off for that. Be "independent" just like we have been for the last million years.

> More and more men are realizing there is no longer incentive to work hard and support a family.

YOU have no incentive because YOU are a self-absorbed Narcissist.

MEN of CHARACTER have deep rooted internal incentive, aka self respect, personal dignity, strength of character, reliability, loyalty, faithfulness and personal fortitude. Obviously, you have none of those traits.

You vent your juvenile rage against women, probably because you've been repeatedly rejected. Any woman of substance instantly detects your utter lack of character while being repulsed by your profound surfeit of immature selfishness.

Narcissus, these things are certain:
1) You can be old once, but you can be immature forever.
2) Change is inevitable; growth is optional.
3) Real men of character will go on, achieving success in life, love, personal accomplishment and growth.

This can be a very difficult situation to deal with. The trend is definitely increasing, I know someone who has had this exact same situation and actually spoke with their son about attending a program in Utah. Her son actually volunteered to go to the program because of what it offers! I could hardly believe it. It's an organization that deals specifically with "Failure to launch" young adults. There aren't many programs out there that specialize in that only. (I've heard of some less than ideal circumstances about good kids going to some programs where they get into more trouble because of the negative influences from other guys there). They helped her all the way through initiating the conversation with her son, introducing him to the program and everything. IT WORKED! They also give coaching to the parents on how to communicate effectively and support their son, and then deal with their return to school, military, work, etc. (They do not return home after the 6th month program) There website is www.fortestrong.com. Definitely worth a visit, I've told quite a few people about it because of how much they helped her.