And one niggle that always gets to me - in the cooking lesson Frau Mieders originally says they can only make one doughnut each and one for a friend for tea. So are the rest of the girls supposed to sit there feeling resentful?

Of course, in the end, they make enough to poison the school.

Cheers,Joyce

I read that as enough doughnuts for one each for all the school, and one extra in case there was a visitor, never thought of your way, but maybe your way is what EBD meant, must read it again soon!

But even as a child I wondered why Grizel could not get a bank loan. She presumably had a decent salary and an inheritance coming up. Or, since she wants to buy a business, couldn't she present the books to the bank? Seriously, she never considered a bank loan?

Because until even as late as the 1970s, you had to have a male guarantor to borrow money. Who was she supposed to ask? Her father - and then her stepmother - was withholding her inheritance, so there would be no help from there. It wasn't easy to borrow money - and it wasn't the 'done thing' to build up debts anyway.

I was so afraid someone would say that. It staggers and saddens me when I consider the barriers that were placed in front of women to do even basic things.

I suppose she could have asked Jem or Jack but hmmm... I wouldn't have either. But surely there were ways round that? Or is it I don't really want to believe that not a single woman was able to get a bank loan without male help right up till the 1970s? Which is only 40-odd years ago when you think about it.

I can also understand not wanting to get into debt as my mortgage is a millstone at times, but sometimes you have no choice. And borrowing from Miss Annersley puts her in debt anyway.

Caroline wrote:

I don't think Jo does have enthusiasms and drop people, its more that she steps in as an emergency in the first instance, as the nearest trusted adult-who-isn't-a-mistress and has her own home etc. Then, when more permanent arrangements are made, or parents reappear, or the girl makes friends of her own age with whom she would rather stay, Joey can and does take a step back.

I agree, but I think it's the fact aren't even told with one line "oh XXX will stay with XX these holidays so we don't need to worry about her" that is making us wonder what the heck happened to them.

How long were holiday breaks back then? 4-5 weeks?

With Carola, there is a line which anticipates this criticism by saying the Maynards will take care of her for the summer, then after they leave for Canada, Miss Annersley will look after her holidays.

I imagine people like Carola and Adrienne had to hope friends would invite them (for weeks on end!) but what if no invite is forthcoming? Jessanne looked after Lavender and Lilamani for one holiday break but I imagine it could not have been easy.

Terrygo wrote:

Was Joey looking after Erica who just seemed to disappear, and that baby , Marie Claire, seemed to go into the nursery and never came downstairs again.

Marie Claire was the Jane Eyre of the Maynard household

Cheers,Joyce

_________________It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how - Dr Seuss

I suppose she could have asked Jem or Jack but hmmm... I wouldn't have either. But surely there were ways round that? Or is it I don't really want to believe that not a single woman was able to get a bank loan without male help right up till the 1970s? Which is only 40-odd years ago when you think about it.

When I bought my first house in 1974 I needed my father's signature on the mortgage, despite the fact that I was earning more than he was by that time. QED

Sadly, that's how it was. Life was not easy for a single woman; equal pay was not universal; if you were married or engaged you were asked in interviews how long it would be before you intended to start a family ... I could go on - the improvements in women's situations over the last forty years has been immense - though there are still some who would return us to the kitchen and bedroom 'where we belong'...

_________________to be nobody but yourself - in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. e.e.cummingshttp://stitchwords.blogspot.co.uk

I'd quite like to know more about what happened to Deira. We're told in one of the later Tyrol books that she's been presented at court, which suggests that - as Caroline showed brilliantly in her fill-in - she was from a wealthy and probably aristocratic Anglo-Irish background. Marriage to someone from a similar background seems likely to lie ahead. The next we hear, she's a widow, in New Zealand, caring for her disabled child, running a music shop, and struggling to make ends meet. We aren't told anything about her late husband, and it sounds like it could be an interesting story.

I suppose she could have asked Jem or Jack but hmmm... I wouldn't have either. But surely there were ways round that? Or is it I don't really want to believe that not a single woman was able to get a bank loan without male help right up till the 1970s? Which is only 40-odd years ago when you think about it.

When I bought my first house in 1974 I needed my father's signature on the mortgage, despite the fact that I was earning more than he was by that time. QED

Sadly, that's how it was. Life was not easy for a single woman; equal pay was not universal; if you were married or engaged you were asked in interviews how long it would be before you intended to start a family ... I could go on - the improvements in women's situations over the last forty years has been immense - though there are still some who would return us to the kitchen and bedroom 'where we belong'...

I bought my house in 1973, didn't need my father or anyone else to sign. I had a professional qualification and was working for a University, maybe that was sufficient for them to lend me 3x my salary. (I had a legacy from my grandmother to enable me to pay the rest, wouldn't have been able to do it without that)

When I was a student in the early 1970s, two of my fellow (female) students wanted to hire a television for their digs. They needed a male guarantor. They asked a random bloke in their department to sign the form.

In the late 1960s my aunt, who was a middle aged headmistress, had trouble getting a mortgage. In the end she went to a mortgage broker who shopped around until he found someone willing to lend to her.

Equal pay in Britain did not become law until around 1974. I remember it happening in my workplace. It was shortly after this - 1975? - that women were given the choice of being able to reurn to work once they had a child.

Some newspapers - certainly the Daily Mail - would still have women confined to the bedroom and the kitchen.

The first mortgage that we had in 1974 only 25% of my earnings were allowed as after all you will become pregnant and it is your husbands earnings that really count was the general thought at that time The 2 bedroomed brand new semi was quite expensive at £7,500

EBD does seem to have issues with her favourites as they grow up, turning them into almost perfect, yet unreal people.Joey, Len and Mary-Lou were all fairly believable when younger but not so much when older.She started it with Joey and carried it on to the other two.Haven't read Carola in years so reread the bits about Biddy mentioned here and was surprised at her attitude towards the girls and Miss Slater re the german unfair to the girls and superior towards her colleague.And for a very new teacher far too overconfident in herself.

I love this book! It was one of the first that I read and I like everything about it. I love the scene with Cousin Maud and the description of Carola's night - especially the supper tray. I like the fact that Carola is smart enough to get through her plan and seems quite self sufficient and I love the way her situation is handled through the school.

The characters are well rounded - lovely to see Clem back in a strong supporting role, Peggy seems like an in-control HG, Joey isn't too overwhelming, and Hilary Burn gets a nice little cameo at Bosherton - even if there is the inevitable medical romance as a result.

Yes, there are EBDisms - Carola not knowing Joey's house is the classic for me - but they're really small potatoes in my mind. It's still one of my favourite books and one of those that I re-read most often. Plus it led me to Pembrokeshire on our first trip back to the UK in 2007. I was fascinated by the castle and we ended up spending a day touring - Pembroke Castle, Bosherton lily ponds (sadly not in bloom but quite recognisable from the descriptions) and then St Govan's Chapel. We were staying in St David's so we didn't have the long trip that the CS girls did. Loved it though.

I also loved the scenes at the beginning - the supper tray, Carola filling her hot water bottle, shopping for her cruise (school) clothes, her "escape", even the food she bought for rhe journey. Silly, domestic detail but helps to make the book.