For a muslim majority country ( by majority I mean %99 ) you would be surprised to see how many people drink it, though it is about to get banned now since we have a leader which thinks himself as an ottoman sultan or something

No I wouldn't, because Tunisia is in the same boat.
Although here, it's not getting banned, but it's price was recently increased by 50% cause of some bullshit tax.

Does the price even matter? I thought you'd get stoned to death for drinking alcohol in the arabic world .

No, you are lucky if you only get stoned, before that they gang beat you with fist and kick, there is a different style of muslim lynching, check Gaddafi death for reference, RIP man, I don't know a shit about that man but if he is lynched by these idiots then that means he was probably a good person and every bad thing we heard about him was a lie ...Oh I forgot to mention they always, I mean ALWAYS! say God is Great in arabic when doing this...

Well, if you don't know the man, then you'd better off not be taking his defense. FYI, Gaddafi massacred entire villages and families just to send a message to single members of said villages because hey were opposing him.
He got rid of any semblant of education in Lybia and replaced all classbooks with his "green book" (his own version of Zedong's Little Red Book, but entirely full of bullshit)
He also removed any form of entertainment in the country, outlawing football clubs for example, and preventing any comedian/actor of playing anything.

Basically he was a tyrant who singlehandedly turned his people into vegetables who are still mocked by everyone else in North Africa for being so stupid.
And the worst part is that it actually worked, I have family there who were brainwashed and were supporting him during the uprising of the rebellion. They're so fond of that killer that it makes me think of George Orwell's 1984.

Excuse me but I am in a bit dark here, there is two completely opposite storyline about Gaddafi, this one says exactly the opposite of what you say :

I know that MSM is lying about Libya and Syria, I've seen their exaggarations about Syrian situation as if Bashar Al Asad responsible for every single killing and bombing in the country, while it is exactly the opposite!
And I am shocked to see how west HELPing Al Qaeda terrorists in Syria, they will acknowledge the idiocy if they ever get their hands on chemical weapons!
Of course innocent people die and get in the crossfire, but why one should hate Asad more than killing done by Predator Drones of USA? Is it any different ? Why we don't get medie hype about civilian deaths in Afghanistan committed by Nato but instead they portray Asad as killer allday long? hm?

Well it's not the same thing between both countries, I don't know much about the details of what's happening and who caused what in Syria, but I'd tend to agree with you on that point. However Gaddafi was a tyrant, there's no point in denying that. As for people saying that Al Qaeda is behind the revolution in Libya, I'll just tell them to look at how the Libyans outed the islamists after the revolution, and how some of the first laws they established were towards gender equality and similar stuff that Al Qaeda doesn't want to hear about.

If you want the truth about libya, I suggest you talk with its inhabitants, not listen to the media and/or YT videos. And if some tell you they love Gaddafi, ask them why and they'll answer "Because he gave us money", but never because he gave them a decent education or something like that. Hard to educate people in a country without universities...

You are somewhat right and have a point but answer will be different to whom you are asking this question!

For example, a lot of people in Turkey thinks Turkey is in a trouble which never seen before and we are going right for a dictatorship! If you ask other half of the country however you will hear Turkey going better and better and they were never been in a better situation before!

You see, now which one we gonna trust, we all know media lie to a certain degree and of course we can't trust Youtube videos which nobody can know who actually prepared it. And then from the example I have given, we can't trust people living in there aswell, because answers will vary person to person.

So what we have left ? I think we are in dark there again, there is nobody to trust, we only have the "ANALYZE" , analyze the situation, all the media hype, combine all the lies and truths and you will see the Big Picture.

True, but while you can't believe people, you can still easily see who's a fanatic and who's not. The people who supported Gaddafi were fanatics without any doubt.

Also, you ask what's left? Well there's the facts, simply looking at what happened in the country should suffice to give you a general idea about how Gaddafi was.

Gaddafi replaced all the education system by a stupid system based around his very own Green Book, causing his people to lack any sort of education other than basic Arabic (not even literary) and maths.
He created a ton of jobs for Libyans only in which they were pretty much not required to do anything and were getting paid for it, just to appease the masses. Now that might sound like a good thing (getting paid to do nothing), but it actually crippled the country since they were relying on Tunisian, Algerian and Sub-Saharan workers (and now that the revolution drove every outsider away, they're having even more problems to get back on track, although they're getting there from what I can see)
He massacred tons of his enemies and their relatives just to send a message. A far relative of mine for example has gone missing 10 years ago, together with his family, his wife's family, and a third one related to them (and a family in Libya means 3 generations of people, so that's pretty much a whole village gone there)
He also "adopted" a lot of African orphans in villages he build especially for them, now that might sound like a philanthropic thing, if it weren't for the fact that he actually used their loyalty towards him as a means to get some sort of "mercenary army", who, since they had no ties with the county itself and its inhabitants, were relied on to carry all the repression tasks.

So yeah, Gaddafi might've turned a poor country into a rich one, where a lot of people were rich without doing shit (not all though, he did show some favoritism towards certain regions and totally ignore others), but you have to ask yourself if being rich for free is worth losing all kind of freedom, culture, education and entertainment for.

As you live in a country which shares border with Libya, you may know more than rest of the world about the truth. Same goes for me, we share border with Syria and we acknowledge every single shit happening over there and I personally follow it hourly. And from what I've seen so far, media almost completely ignores what FSA terrorists do but imeediately blame Assad for a shelling or bombing happening in Northern towns.
Today FSA terrorists" killed" one of our police officers and wounded a couple other officers and soldiers and civilians for not letting them into our borders and guess what? We didn't even fucking responded to them!
And nobody gives a shit and half of the country sees Assad as a bloody dictator which have no support or whatsoever just because they've downed one of our "recon" plane in "Syrian territory"
And a shelling which killed a few civilians in Turkey's border with Syria which immediately blamed on Syrian Army, as if it is something impossible for those terrorist FSA to get their hands on mortars and fire them toward us and blame Syrian Army; they blindly accused Assad for ordering that, and people accept that bullshit without even thinking why the fuck Assad should bomb another country's soil while there is that much strife inside without a reason?
Well, he won't and he didn't.
I follow news here with sadness and rage, seeing all the obvious lies about Syrian conflict.

And then I think on my own country which is figthing with terrorists over 30 years ( currently in a fake peace session ) and see how it is so easy to start an internal conflict here aswell which is same as Syria's. And with all the help we are giving to FSA terrorists to kill more innocent people in Syria, we may well end up seeing same thing happening here, this time with Syrian Ally Iran's help!

The Free Syrian Army doesn't represent all the Syrian rebels, mind. The FSA is not a catch-all moniker for the rebels, as the hardcore Salafist groups are somewhat more autonomous (and distrustful of the FSA). More to the point, with all the information coming out, how do you confirm it? That's the problem with increased use of social media - sure, you might more tasty scoops, but separating the wheat from the chaff gets a whole load harder. And this is before figuring out who exactly did what - it's essentially a Grey and Gray Morality situation out there. The rebels might not be following the Geneva Convention, but then Assad's forces most certainly aren't either.

As to the Kurds, Turkey is still their largest trade partner as Iraqi reconciliation hasn't worked out if it was even started, as the regular car bombings would show. I think that trying to reconcile with them isn't that bad an idea, as it's still better than trying to do so with some people I probably shouldn't be naming.

Also something I thought of, does it take having to live next to these crises to truly understand them? Despite (increasingly graphic) news reports here, people can't seem to buy into the idea that Muslims can do this towards their fellow Muslims (yes they really do that here). The oppressing must be done by the Americans/Zionists/Westerners/Illuminati/Freemasons for most people here to care.

Edited by Krieger22, 04 May 2013 - 13:47.

Sareen said:

NOOO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOO ...*closes ears* lalalala that never happened!

As to the Kurds, Turkey is still their largest trade partner as Iraqi reconciliation hasn't worked out if it was even started, as the regular car bombings would show. I think that trying to reconcile with them isn't that bad an idea, as it's still better than trying to do so with some people I probably shouldn't be naming.

Well we don't have problems with Northern Iraq at all, we have civil war with Kurds for over 30 years aswell, but not as widespread as in Syria or Libya. Whats happening in Syria is that the country divided exactly into two opposite groups and both sides kill the one which is not from them. But in Turkey army fights with Kurdish seperatists only, but it get into a point where it cannot keep up like that anymore so a full scale civil war imminent IF current peace talks fail.

Krieger22, on 04 May 2013 - 13:41, said:

Also something I thought of, does it take having to live next to these crises to truly understand them? Despite (increasingly graphic) news reports here, people can't seem to buy into the idea that Muslims can do this towards their fellow Muslims (yes they really do that here). The oppressing must be done by the Americans/Zionists/Westerners/Illuminati/Freemasons for most people here to care.

Yes you get more news about the country which is near you than anybody else, unless you are following Turkish news channels or websites, you can't know about the conflict as much as we do. I say that because I follow both out local news sites and global ones such as BBC and we get a lot of news which doesn't even remotely appear on world scale.
And thing is almost all of them false...