If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You will have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

25 Feb 2014 - The automated registration process is open again - just click the Register button top-right of the screen and follow the prompts. Click here for more detail.

Amazing Grace!

David Grove (2005): "Tertiary worlds contain a sequence of information originating, and in existence prior to your life in the real world. There are three categories of tertiary world containing tacit information that is difficult to access:

Your ontological sense of being. Where did you come from before you were born and what was the nature of your being-ness prior to your birth?

Secondary and tertiary worlds can contain wisdom and solutions to the problems identified by the ‘you’ in the primary world. The ‘you’ of the primary world has the least useful information needed to resolve real world issues. The wisdom and solutions to these real world problems will most likely be found in other worlds and therefore do not rely on ‘you’ to come up to provide the solutions. The emphasis is on the knowledge that exists inside of your (secondary and tertiary) knowing.

These worlds contain both positive and negative wisdom. 2 and 3 worlds intrude into your primary world and therefore affect how you react within the real world."
[…]
"Some clients will not have a sense of the pristine. They are more easily traumatised because they have no sense that they belong in the world. This percentage of people may not have a sense of belonging to the family or culture they were born in to. They may have vivid memories of a time of great anxiety or that they were untimely born or unwanted. They may never have had the perception we are trying to find in the pristine.
It is important to establish this characteristic of a client because when they are being pulled back they may need to go further than where the pristine should be. They may need to be pulled back to the place from whence they came.
In the course of the session, the client may be answering questions from the third person viewpoint. When moved to adjacent spaces they may change this view and become the person in the picture. When they do this, they will use the ‘I’ pronoun. For example they might previously have been talking about ‘the girl’ and then they refer to her as ‘I’.
People who have no sense of belonging must know what it feels like to belong. In order to say ‘I don’t fit’, they must have had the experience of belonging somewhere else to know that they don’t belong here.
There is an edge of the world or a cosmology in which one thing is so here but not necessarily so somewhere else. There are people who’s pristine is further back than within the cosmology after they were born, but there’s a sense that they came from somewhere. This is the place called ‘from whence you came’.
The question to find out from whence you came is: ‘Where did you come from before you came here?’ "

Notes from the 23/5/2003 retreat with David Grove

"Position I(later David called this position A)
- Who are you today and what are you?
- Where in the room are you best represented?
- Where are you most comfortable?

Mission Statement(later B)
- What is your purpose in life from this position?
- Place that mission statement in place with respect to your position now, at the right distance.
- What's the space-in-between? --> Position II (later space of C)

Life-history
- Where were you born in space in respect to your position I today --> Position III (this would be the equivalent of ‘find a space that knows about where you were born)
- What shape has it?
- What scale is it on?
- When were you one with the world and was the world one with you? (solid/clean; scaled right = not too big/not too small; you're in control; it's your world à pristine time/moment)

Reversed Association

Comment of David: You don't have the same qualities when you go back. Visual, auditory information becomes available that you don't get in position I (reversed association). If you go somewhere else, you get new information."

Yesterday I visited the estate of my father's ancestors. At some point in my life, for no obvious reason, I decided to live in this part of Holland and it turns out it is only a few miles east:

Childeric I
(436-496)
(King of the Franks of Ysel 458-496)
===
Basina of Thüringen

Clovis I
(466-511)
(King of the Franks 481-511)
===
Rotilde of Burguondy

Chlotarius I the Old
(497-561)
(King of Soissons 511-558)
(King of the Franks 558-561)
===
Aregondis

Chilperic I
(523-584)
===
Fredegonde

Chlotarius II the Great
(584-628)
===
Bertrade

Dagobert I
===
Nanthilde

Sigisbert III
===
Immachilde

Clovis II

Dagobert II
===
Giselle the Razes

Ida of Nijvel
===
Pepyn I the Old

Begga
===
Ansegisel
(ca 610- ca 662)

Pepyn II of Herstal
===
Alpaïde of Chalpaïde

(Plectrude was stepmother of Karel Martel)

Karel Martel
(688-741)
===
Rotrudis (Chrotrud)

Pepyn III the Short
(714-768)
===
Bertrade of Laon

Charles the Great
(742-814)
(King of the Franken 768)

(Emperor 800)
===
Hildegard"

How does that affect me now?It can no longer be a space I happened to choose: it does give a feeling of belonging to this land, being proud of my noble descent.

What do I know now?My genes must have a GPS, being able to recognize my homeland and having made me choose to live here!

... just my luck that the door to the church was open because somebody was making the flower arrangements for the Easter service ... during the years I did research for my books I have developed a strategy for entering buildings and gatherings when I am not sure if I would be allowed in: I just walk in as if I own the place and just before someone is about to ask me a question about my presence I ask them what they are actually doing, which usually distracts them ... but this guy didn't seem to bother, so I had a chance to have a good look at these stained glass windows ... and this time I was surely entitled to be here because there it was: the red lion of the family weapon in a field of gold.

To have your father make you a huge glass window with your name in it when you are four years old: that's quite something, especially in the company of those represented in the other windows, among which Prince William Henry III (yes Philip, the one that married Mary Stuart jr. and was asked to become your King).

How does it affect me now?I'm impressed: noblesse oblige!

What do I know now?Now I know why my history teacher treated me with respect at school and I had such good grades: I knew already, I only had to retrieve it from my family's genes.

Steve:
"Hi Corrie,

Surely this thread should be in your own self-modelling section of the forum, but here we can ask questions!

So the bloodline of the Holy Grail runs through Corrie? ... may-be you should have been our Queen?

Well its never too late, what about "the Queen of Clean" or "the Queen of the Grail"?

love Steven"

Corrie:"Well, Arthur probably lived earlier than Merovech, and I'm not sure about the connection to the Romans.

But the Holy Grail's truth about all leadership is that 'the king is the land'.

A clean queen would have everybody have their own grail, which is the palms of their hands."

Steve:
"indeed, as the one who knows that, you must be the queen ... ;-)

[bows in homage. :-)"

Corrie:"Homage to anyone or anything will distract you from your own truth."

Steve:
"unless it is my truth - a shared truth!"

Corrie:"My land is different from your land: your have three hills to view!"

(retreat)
"- When did you get a sense of 'I do not fit into this world'? (anxiety, unwantedness)
- When did you realise that you must have belonged somewhere else? (do not fit with your family, your culture)
- Where did you come from before you were born, before you were here? (I --> Position III)"

... On an early Sunday morning, the very first day of spring, as I was walking along the edge of the park, enjoying the snowdrops that were spread out all over the estate, my attention was drawn toward a meadow across the castel moat, where some goat were bleating. I noticed a black goat with a broad white stripe in the middle, which looked rather odd. - I thought of the day in April many years ago, when this flock of sheep ran into the meadow, jumping about, after the quarantine had been lifted. They were all black, except for one white one, which made me smile. Later that day I was in a gathering, where the image of that morning made me feel to be the only white sheep in the flock, which was rather comforting, considering what happened.

As I walked a little further I met a couple that was staring at the same meadow, so I joined them and followed their gaze. They explained that the sheep had just given birth to a lamb, but as we kept looking and the mother licked her baby, it wasn't getting on its feet. The farmer stood next to them, waiting for the mother to give up and then he grapped the lamb and walked away.

It broke my heart and I said to the woman that it wouldn't be fair to any mother, after having carried this baby for so many months. She nodded and I saw in her eyes that she shared that feeling.

I walked on, spiralling inside to the hotel and had coffee at the coach house. Then I had lunch next to the castle, overlooking the pond.(see: http://leidsevaart.nl/poelgees.htm)

How does it affect me now?It makes me wonder what it would be like to have had a child that didn't make it into this world. And what it was like for my father: fighting for the freedom of his country, hiding persons, among which English pilotes, and then to be bombed out by them, loosing his wife and unborn child.

What do I know now?David was right that sometimes the pristine is found a generation or more ago, when things were right and your parent was one with the world. The records show that it was a girl, and I bet I was named after her.

(retreat)

"- How do you give up that world you do not belong to, because it doesn't work?

- Which patterns of what you do now, make no sense with regard to your life-history, but do make sense to what you were before you were born?
- What is your direction/sense of life?
- What was your original mission statement? (some winds you came), what were you supposed to be doing? (History of mission statements.)
- What is the contrast to position I ? à change."

...Yesterday I saw an airplane. I looked up from the tiles in my pool to the silver lining of an equally blue plane in a spotless blue sky. Since I live close to Schiphol Airport, normally I wouldn't bother to notice, but Royal Dutch had not been around for a while and was now testing the amount of vulcanic ash in the air at a really low level.

A few hours later I sat in front of the coach-house of 'my' castle, watching old army vehicles ... so nice of these Canadian chaps of the Liberation Band to come and give a concert at the stairs ... nothing more beautiful than 'Amazing Grace' by a piper.

I shared my sandwich with the war veteran next to me and asked about his decorations. It turned out he had lived a few blocks from my grandfather's printer during the war, old enough to be put to work abroad, so hiding. After the war he was enlisted and sent to Indonesia, which felt like a liberation to him.

I told him my mother will still startle when hearing an airplane, checking it won't drop a bomb. She worked at the hospital during the war: the upper floors being for the citizens, the lower ones for the military, the latter considered to be more safe. But one day the English accidentally dropped a bomb in the garden, destroying the lower floors and leaving those on top intact ...

He said he appreciated my listening to his stories, which retrieved yet more memories ...

... Just when I climbed the stairs to the mall, thinking about my groceries list, I heard ‘Amazing Grace’. It is one of those moments you wonder if it is just a tune in your head or that it is really happening. I looked over my shoulder to the square in front of the city-hall and guess what: there they were again, the chaps of the Liberation Band! Just so nice of them to perform an aubade at the occasion of our former queen’s birthday!

How does it affect me now?It’s just one of those synchronicities that tempted me to buy their CD, but I bought orange plants instead.

What do I know now?The Liberation Band connected my ancestors to my home-town. Amazing Grace!

When I visited my cousin in hospital last spring it struck me how much he looked like my father. He was talking on the phone with a friend who took care of his sheep for him. He guided him to the meadow, how to open the gate and how to deal with a sheep having trouble giving birth. After he had finished his conversation, he smiled at me and said: "Sometimes all they need is a little push!"
Instantly, an image of David sitting in a classroom, saying more or less the same words, emerged and I smiled back.