I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

_________________Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.Mark Twain

Quite delusional. He has good qualifying pace sometimes, in the races in 2012 he has been slower on race pace than Kimi 90% of the time, and when he was quicker it was due to Kimi's issues with tyres etc. This raw speed people talk about with Romain is just bull, because as stated on race pace he's slower than Kimi 90% of the time, and usually messes it up anyway, so it all counts for nothing.

Romain is an awful driver, just because hes good at qualifying sometimes does not mean he will win races with consistency. He just has no race craft and spacial awareness in an F1 car, all he does is cost Lotus millions in repair bills and championship standing, as well as giving the team a bad image. He's had plenty of chances and all he's shown is he's not F1 material, far from it.

The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, not F1.

They're both excellent drivers, Kimi is just that much better. He's a world champion, he SHOULD be defeating Grosjean. When they both finished a race, this is the result:

I'd hardly say Romain's done that bad when he's not forgetting how to do first laps. Kimi got his act together later in the season and did what a team leader should do, and led Romain home, but Romain was close behind in those races to be fair.

I could cherry pick stats also that go against him, but I rather keep things simple and look at the reality of the season not just some results. The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, and he's cost Lotus dearly this season, millions in $, team image and championship standing.

I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

Maybe he's still not ready for a good car?

I say he takes his 5 million from Total and gets a seat at Marrussia or something then convince the big guys to hire him

Quite delusional. He has good qualifying pace sometimes, in the races in 2012 he has been slower on race pace than Kimi 90% of the time, and when he was quicker it was due to Kimi's issues with tyres etc. This raw speed people talk about with Romain is just bull, because as stated on race pace he's slower than Kimi 90% of the time, and usually messes it up anyway, so it all counts for nothing.

Romain is an awful driver, just because hes good at qualifying sometimes does not mean he will win races with consistency. He just has no race craft and spacial awareness in an F1 car, all he does is cost Lotus millions in repair bills and championship standing, as well as giving the team a bad image. He's had plenty of chances and all he's shown is he's not F1 material, far from it.

The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, not F1.

They're both excellent drivers, Kimi is just that much better. He's a world champion, he SHOULD be defeating Grosjean. When they both finished a race, this is the result:

I'd hardly say Romain's done that bad when he's not forgetting how to do first laps. Kimi got his act together later in the season and did what a team leader should do, and led Romain home, but Romain was close behind in those races to be fair.

I could cherry pick stats also that go against him, but I rather keep things simple and look at the reality of the season not just some results. The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, and he's cost Lotus dearly this season, millions in $, team image and championship standing.

So 11 out of 19 races for Romain is cherry picking? The several races where he did retire, through his fault or not, what position was he when he retired? Fighting at the front in Valencia, midfield in Abu Dhabi but going backwards quite fast, midfield in Brazil, up front in Australia, Malaysia, mid of the pack in Spa. When he's done a race distance, or most of a race distance, his pace has been excellent, except Abu Dhabi. Not quite as good as Kimi, but still hardly terrible. The championship standings put him in the top ten. Some of his incidents are a bit daft/reckless yes, but some of them are hardly criminal. If they're criminal, Alonso, Perez, Vettel, Hamilton, Massa and Schumacher especially need to be looked at. If you want to concentrate your distaste for Romain purely on his incidents, I'll concentrate my support for him on the 11 races he finished and races rather well in.

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

You cant just look at when they both finished as an excuse. The standings and incidents don't lie, they are a true reflection, stop making excuses for a driver who should not be in F1, his driving most of the time is awful and he's taken championship contenders with him. Even after a race ban he was straight back into incidents. Your just clutching on straw's for a driver who's been god awful this season.

You cant just look at when they both finished as an excuse. The standings and incidents don't lie, they are a true reflection, stop making excuses for a driver who should not be in F1, his driving most of the time is awful and he's taken championship contenders with him. Even after a race ban he was straight back into incidents. Your just clutching on straw's for a driver who's been god awful this season.

I still fail to see the 'god awful' when he's shown the pace and finished only a place or two behind Kimi in many races. 10 points finishes, 6 of those 1 place behind Kimi, two of them ahead of the Iceman, 3 podiums, handled his tyres brilliantly, and a multitude of crashes to taint his name. How is that god awful, just because of the crashes? If he'd done it on purpose like Maldonado then yes, but he hasn't.

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I would love to see Kamui get the seat. However looking at it objectively, Grosjean has performed very well when he hasn't been crashing in to people.

I suppose it all depends on whether Lotus are prepared to give him another chance. They know he is capable and has the pace to do well. I don't think anyone can say presently who would be faster between him and Kamui and I'm sure Lotus are aware that Kamui is a driver who is not risk averse and sometimes gets himself in to trouble (though with Schumacher retiring next year, he'll be losing he favourite crashing buddy, so that can only be a good thing for him).

As for Kovalinen, though he's usually had a slight edge in qualifying, there's been very little to choose between him and Petrov. May just be a result of the teams overall pace and their position on the grid but it certainly wasn't decisive between them.

I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

Maybe he's still not ready for a good car?

I say he takes his 5 million from Total and gets a seat at Marrussia or something then convince the big guys to hire him

How can he learn without racing? I belive the issue with sponsorship and Total is that Total may just give up sponsoring this team if there is no French driver. They also may still have some special deals with Renault. Beside that you don't just let go such crazy, but fast driver go. He did well against Kimi in many races. There are many examples of wasted talents in sport, but also many examples of sportsman who settled down and finally achieved success. I know that Koba is a nice likeable person, but his career stalled despite many seasons in F1.

_________________Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.Mark Twain

I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

Maybe he's still not ready for a good car?

I say he takes his 5 million from Total and gets a seat at Marrussia or something then convince the big guys to hire him

How can he learn without racing? I belive the issue with sponsorship and Total is that Total may just give up sponsoring this team if there is no French driver. They also may still have some special deals with Renault. Beside that you don't just let go such crazy, but fast driver go. He did well against Kimi in many races. There are many examples of wasted talents in sport, but also many examples of sportsman who settled down and finally achieved success. I know that Koba is a nice likeable person, but his career stalled despite many seasons in F1.

Perhaps RoGro should stay at Lotus and Koba should go to Force India then.

I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

Maybe he's still not ready for a good car?

I say he takes his 5 million from Total and gets a seat at Marrussia or something then convince the big guys to hire him

How can he learn without racing? I belive the issue with sponsorship and Total is that Total may just give up sponsoring this team if there is no French driver. They also may still have some special deals with Renault. Beside that you don't just let go such crazy, but fast driver go. He did well against Kimi in many races. There are many examples of wasted talents in sport, but also many examples of sportsman who settled down and finally achieved success. I know that Koba is a nice likeable person, but his career stalled despite many seasons in F1.

Perhaps RoGro should stay at Lotus and Koba should go to Force India then.

This, I'd be happy with, and am hoping for!

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

Maybe he's still not ready for a good car?

I say he takes his 5 million from Total and gets a seat at Marrussia or something then convince the big guys to hire him

How can he learn without racing? I belive the issue with sponsorship and Total is that Total may just give up sponsoring this team if there is no French driver. They also may still have some special deals with Renault. Beside that you don't just let go such crazy, but fast driver go. He did well against Kimi in many races. There are many examples of wasted talents in sport, but also many examples of sportsman who settled down and finally achieved success. I know that Koba is a nice likeable person, but his career stalled despite many seasons in F1.

Perhaps RoGro should stay at Lotus and Koba should go to Force India then.

Maybe

_________________Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.Mark Twain

I would like to change RoGro. Romain with his pace have more potential. Anyone remember him at Valencia? Koba despite his reputation on this forum is just solid driver. If someone can manage Romain career properly, he may be another F1 star.

Maybe he's still not ready for a good car?

I say he takes his 5 million from Total and gets a seat at Marrussia or something then convince the big guys to hire him

How can he learn without racing? I belive the issue with sponsorship and Total is that Total may just give up sponsoring this team if there is no French driver. They also may still have some special deals with Renault. Beside that you don't just let go such crazy, but fast driver go. He did well against Kimi in many races. There are many examples of wasted talents in sport, but also many examples of sportsman who settled down and finally achieved success. I know that Koba is a nice likeable person, but his career stalled despite many seasons in F1.

Quite delusional. He has good qualifying pace sometimes, in the races in 2012 he has been slower on race pace than Kimi 90% of the time, and when he was quicker it was due to Kimi's issues with tyres etc. This raw speed people talk about with Romain is just bull, because as stated on race pace he's slower than Kimi 90% of the time, and usually messes it up anyway, so it all counts for nothing.

Romain is an awful driver, just because hes good at qualifying sometimes does not mean he will win races with consistency. He just has no race craft and spacial awareness in an F1 car, all he does is cost Lotus millions in repair bills and championship standing, as well as giving the team a bad image. He's had plenty of chances and all he's shown is he's not F1 material, far from it.

The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, not F1.

I'm sorry but WTF is wrong with people these days when you have to start the reply to a perfectly normal comment with "Quite delusional"?

Quite delusional. He has good qualifying pace sometimes, in the races in 2012 he has been slower on race pace than Kimi 90% of the time, and when he was quicker it was due to Kimi's issues with tyres etc. This raw speed people talk about with Romain is just bull, because as stated on race pace he's slower than Kimi 90% of the time, and usually messes it up anyway, so it all counts for nothing.

Romain is an awful driver, just because hes good at qualifying sometimes does not mean he will win races with consistency. He just has no race craft and spacial awareness in an F1 car, all he does is cost Lotus millions in repair bills and championship standing, as well as giving the team a bad image. He's had plenty of chances and all he's shown is he's not F1 material, far from it.

The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, not F1.

I'm sorry but WTF is wrong with people these days when you have to start the reply to a perfectly normal comment with "Quite delusional"?

I'm just going to ignore them in this thread now Covelent. They clearly have a major problem with RoGro for some reason, anyone with a shred of sense knows he isn't an awful driver. Just a careless one and if he can rid himself of that carelessness then he'll be a very good driver indeed.

Quite delusional. He has good qualifying pace sometimes, in the races in 2012 he has been slower on race pace than Kimi 90% of the time, and when he was quicker it was due to Kimi's issues with tyres etc. This raw speed people talk about with Romain is just bull, because as stated on race pace he's slower than Kimi 90% of the time, and usually messes it up anyway, so it all counts for nothing.

Romain is an awful driver, just because hes good at qualifying sometimes does not mean he will win races with consistency. He just has no race craft and spacial awareness in an F1 car, all he does is cost Lotus millions in repair bills and championship standing, as well as giving the team a bad image. He's had plenty of chances and all he's shown is he's not F1 material, far from it.

The incidents, race pace and championship standing don't lie with Romain, they give a good reflection of his abilities, not F1.

I'm sorry but WTF is wrong with people these days when you have to start the reply to a perfectly normal comment with "Quite delusional"?

You cant just look at when they both finished as an excuse. The standings and incidents don't lie, they are a true reflection, stop making excuses for a driver who should not be in F1, his driving most of the time is awful and he's taken championship contenders with him. Even after a race ban he was straight back into incidents. Your just clutching on straw's for a driver who's been god awful this season.

I still fail to see the 'god awful' when he's shown the pace and finished only a place or two behind Kimi in many races. 10 points finishes, 6 of those 1 place behind Kimi, two of them ahead of the Iceman, 3 podiums, handled his tyres brilliantly, and a multitude of crashes to taint his name. How is that god awful, just because of the crashes? If he'd done it on purpose like Maldonado then yes, but he hasn't.

Ironically, that is the problem. Maldonado has been able to clean up his driving in the latter part of the season by calming down. Grosjean's errors stem from something fundamental to his general racecraft rather than his temper. He's not god awful at all, his race pace is very good, even if he is not quite as quick as Kimi, there is no disgrace in that. He just needs to keep it out of the barriers. Valencia would probably have been his if it wasn't for the alternator, it demonstrated what he is capable of, clean and close overtaking and fast race pace. He just needs to keep doing it.

_________________"Jean Alesi is using the Maginot Line policy-You shall not pass!"-Murray Walker

Romain has the speed but he can't race, Kobayashi probably doesnt have quite the speed (but then nor does Kimi) but is more consistant and a far better racing driver. Kobayashi in a lotus will be make or break as to whether he has what it takes, he certaintly has showed it at times that he can be brilliant.

Romain has only shown that he can drive a car fast on a single lap, he has never shown any particularly brilliant racing skills or consistant pace, and that's why he got slaughtered by Kimi.