Minnesota governor not a fan of the Vikings stadium deal

Posted by Mike Florio on May 15, 2011, 7:32 AM EST

AP

With each passing day, that celebratory press conference in Ramsey County regarding the deal to place the Vikings’ new stadium in Arden Hills is looking more and more premature and, frankly, foolish. The project still faces many challenges, which now include opposition from the man who has been firmly behind the idea of building a new stadium for the team.

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune (where an ever-growing list of names is receiving express credit for Vikings stadium stories), Governor Mark Dayton doesn’t care much for the proposed deal, which would put the stadium at the site of an abandoned ammunition plant.

“I could see why that would be appealing to the Vikings,” Dayton said. “I don’t know why Ramsey County agreed to it.” Dayton reportedly thinks the deal gives too much revenue and control to the Vikings, and it foists onto the state responsibility for improving the roads around the proposed location. He says that $300 million represents the absolute limit of the state’s contribution; thus, if as Dayton believes $240 million will be devoted to improving the nearby roads, it doesn’t leave much to contribute to the stadium itself.

Meanwhile, the Vikings continue to be skeptical of Dayton’s claim that road improvements will be so costly. The team thinks that the real number could be as low as $80 million.

And a new debate is emerging regarding whether Vikings lobbyists had been telling legislators that the team wanted to stay in Minneapolis before picking the Arden Hills location.

At this rate, we think there’s only one issue that really matters: Whether the team will still be known as the Vikings when it moves to Los Angeles, or whether the name will be left behind for a possible expansion or relocated franchise. Given the league’s misadventures in Minnesota courts, however, we’ve got a feeling that, if the current franchise leaves, there won’t be a replacement. Ever.

Chew on that one, Governor Dayton and all other Minnesota politicians, as you plan your next move.

65 responses to “Minnesota governor not a fan of the Vikings stadium deal”

The vikings stadium proposal has a rough price tag of around $900 million to $1 billion from what I’ve read. Just for a comparison, Lincoln Field cost $512 million, Heinz Field cost $280million, and Lucas Oil field (indoors) $720. Not every team needs a monument to their ego like Jerry Jones. If I’m a Minnesota taxpayer I’m asking why there is only one stadium proposal and no cheaper alternatives. What a racket though, the team gives the state one ultra expensive option and puts a gun at their head. If teams want taxpayer support, they should take taxpayer input on what it is they are paying for. I don’t want to see the vikings move but I also don’t want to see them rip off the state like this.

I cannot see how the state of MN can spend $300 Million on anything right now. With ~500,000 Food stamp recipients & an average debt of $9,538 per citizen in MN, it’s seems fiscially irresponsible to do anything like this.

Spending $300 Million to please a Billionaire when the state is Mulit-Billions in debt sounds like the exact same mess that got us into this depression. I’d tell Ziggy to enjoy the ride to CA & goodluck with that state’s debt bomb coming up.

Yeah, let’s move all the smaller market teams and blackout producers to LA where fans will eagerly flock to their $1000 seats and spend $300 on sushi and vegan delights. Nevermind that LA has a history of not supporting pro football. I think the NFL bubble has popped.

“And a new debate is emerging regarding whether Vikings lobbyists had been telling legislators that the team wanted to stay in Minneapolis before picking the Arden Hills location.”

More sensationalist journalism by the PFT crew. If you read the article you’ll see that only ONE legislator is making that lobbyist claim in an obvious attempt to get her name in the paper. If the team does move, I highly doubt the league would risk missing out on more revenue an expansion team would bring because of a few federal court rulings in Minneapolis. That sounds reasonable, punish the fans for the decisions of a court. Well played Mike.

Football fans who are upset with the owners and/or players over their failure to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement need to find a way to effectively show their own displeasure. Write all the letters and emails you want but it won’t amount to squat. I urge all fans to stop visiting ANY AND ALL web sites whose content is related to the National Football League. Clear these sites from your “favorites/bookmarks”. If web traffic at these sites goes into a freefall, it wont take long for players and owners to imagine what life would be like if TV ratings took a similar dive. Welcome aboard!

I’m going to repost a comment I made a couple days ago in response to another story about the Vikings stadium deal…

hail2tharedskins says: May 13, 2011 4:09 PM

I am starting to think that the press conference announcing the Arden Hills stadium site was nothing more than a PR stunt. The Ramsey Co. officials get their 15min of fame and the Vikings get cover if/when the legislature doesn’t approve the stadium bill which will lead to their relocation. It sure seems right now that the Vikings knew that they were not even close to solidifying a stadium deal, so why hold such a public press conference unless it was just a PR stunt to show its fans that hey we are doing every thing we can, but in reality you don’t make announcements like that until you are at least 90% certain its a go. Its looking more and more likely that the Vikings first order of business after the CBA is settled will be planning another press conference to announce their new stadium site, only this time it will be located in California not Minnesota. Off topic: wasn’t that an awful amateurish press conference?
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The support for this stadium reminds me of pretty much every tax debate I’ve heard. No one wants to pay taxes, and they certainly don’t want to pay any more than they absolutely have to. So, when someone comes along promising to cut taxes or claiming their opponent will raise them, they tend to pick up a lot of support. The problem comes when they’re elected, and then people finally see the cuts that have to be made in spending to pay for cutting taxes or keeping them where they are (depending on the economic conditions). Then, people get up in arms over the cuts to the services they take for granted. Sooner or later, people need to figure out that nothing is free, even when the government builds or provides it. It all has to be paid for somehow. It’s fine if you’re not willing to pay for it, but you’d better be prepared to do with out it. That’s exactly what’s going on here. The fans want to keep the team, and most probably don’t even imagine that them leaving is really a possibility because the team has been a part of their lives for so long. If they keep refusing to help build a new stadium, however, they will eventually lose their team to a community that’s willing to do so. That’s the way things work in the sports world. Personally, I never thought things would get this far. I figured the government would drag its feet for a while, and then come in and make a deal as time was running out. Well, time is running out now, and it would be running out even quicker if the labor issues weren’t muddying the waters in the NFL. The Vikings lease is up, and after this season they’ll be a franchise version of an unrestricted free agent, and the part of Dan Snyder will be played by L.A. Almost fitting in a historical sense. The Lakers started out in Minnesota too. Still, it would be sad to see. I’m certainly not a fan of seeing teams move around.

I am actually getting a little worried now… It is insane that MN politicians are trying to fleece the Vikings for cash in this. It really is beginning to look like they are pretty much telling them to move.

Minnesota has a projected budget deficit of $5 Billion dollars. I think the Gov has more to worry about right now, don’t you? And this idea that the Vikes are moving to California is assinine. California is more broke than anybody, and the private money isn’t there despite all the talk.

You have mused in the recent past why people aren’t more upset about the CBA/lockout situation. Well, most of us are trying to pay our bills with rampant inflation starting and gas prices sky high, and we are a little less focused on whining billionaires and millionaires.

If you are so worked up about it, write the State of Minnesota a check.

You would think that the state that elected a wrestler as Governor, a Saturday Night Live comedian as Senator and one of the small handful of states to vote for Jimmy Carter for President after the hostage and oil crises of the late 70’s – in spite of the double digit interest rates and runaway inflation at the time – would have the wherewithal and political savvy to solve this problem.

Mike, if the Vikings move they will never get another team and probably should not, but I look at this as I do the NFL problems, nothing get done till the last minute and then everybody pushes and gets it done.

Inflation plays a huge roll in the cost of a stadium being built today costing more than a stadium that was built decade or more ago. Also, you are comparing open-field stadiums to one that is planned with a roof, that adds another 100m-200m to the cost as well.

kingotnw,

Not telling them to move. Daring them to move.

georgiavol91,

You don’t think the private money is there in California? You might want to research the two men that are pushing to build stadiums in Southern California. Ed Roski and Philip Anshutz. Both are big time developers in the region and both are multi-billionaires. The private money is certainly there and while they have competing proposals in this instance, both worked together to build Staples Center with private financing – so they both know what they are doing and have done it before.

What seems lost in the discussion about the Ramsey County site is the fact that the stadium would be built on an old AMMUNITION plant. As someone who has dealt with the on-going cleanup of an ammunition dump in a wealthy part of Washington DC, the process and cost of cleaning up a site like this should not be ignored.

The site I have had dealings with dates back to WWI, and the Army Corp. of Engineers are always finding some new “artifact” in areas where they thought they had cleared. And this is a site on a much smaller scale than what is in Ramsey County.

Even if every resident of the State of Minnesota walked the site with metal detectors the odds of finding every “artificat” on that site would be a long shot.

On the flip side, fan nicknames for a stadium built on that site would be extremely plentiful. lol

The Vikings should build an open air stadium We’re talking football here, not baseball, and it isn’t the opera. The Vikings always sold out the old Met. That was a cool place to play football and those Viking teams were great fun to watch. The fans in Green Bay and Chicago have no trouble with spending a few hours out of doors in December and January and it is just as cold in those places as it is in Minneapolis.

These stadiums do not need to be palaces. They just need to offer a lot of seats with a great and unobstructed view of the field. The field should be real grass and there should be no roof or dome over the field.

The entire economic structure of the NFL is completely out of wack. The league, the teams, the players and the fans need to get back to basics. Most localities, states and counties as well can no longer afford to bankroll this kind of deal.

This all leads back to basic economics and in particular, to costs. What is the biggest cost of every NFL franchise? Player salaries and benefits. Can any of you guess who has to start helping pay for the stadiums when the taxpayer no longer can?

As far as I am concerned, instead of building a new fancy stadium, why not build a new factory for an IBM or a GE or someone. Real jobs that pay good money and provides tax money instead of minimum wage jobs that add little to the tax base. Building a factory for one of these companies is no more gross that building billionaires a new stadium that they pay little for and keep all the revenue from so their millionaire players can make gross salaries that most take out of the state anyway. Just a thought.

“These stadiums do not need to be palaces. They just need to offer a lot of seats with a great and unobstructed view of the field. The field should be real grass and there should be no roof or dome over the field.”

Mick, you are looking at it from a fans perspective. The owners see luxury suites, club seats, parking, concessions, and ‘amenities’ as non-shared revenue sources.

C’mon guys. Nothing was going to get 100% support and this is Politics 101.

1. The Vikings moved ahead with a plan to stay. They even upped their offer. If the state balks now, Wilf, unlike Modell can always say that they had a workable plan that was accepted by the county where it was proposed and the state nixed the deal. The Vikings then leave with MN at fault – politically.

2. The Governor hates this because he will get no credit for this deal. He stated that is was a major priority to keep the Vikings. Whether this plan stays with the current structure or a new one or an alternate location is chosen, the Governor will want to be front an center for keeping the team. Right now he is the odd man out wanting to get back in to get credit. Look for him to get Wilf to make a token increase to the offer if the Vikings stay to say he brokered a better deal for the state.

3. It is a solution with a concrete plan as opposed to an abstract concept. Now that it is on paper, the challenge from the Vikings and Ramsey County is, “Don’t like it. You best come up with an alternate plan quickly that is better.” The “chip” so to speak is in the center of the table finally. Raise, fold or go home.

I am a Packers season ticket holder and while most would think those rational amongst us would want the Vikings to leave in some cruel blow to MN, nothing could be farther than the truth. A next state rival and one like the Vikings is a team we would want to keep in out storied division.

It is a shame this has come during a time such of economic strife. Public funding four years ago would have happened – look at the beautiful Twins ball park. Right now the well is dry and it does not bode well for any state that is looking to do this.

No sports team, of and league should be able to blackmail a community, force them to pay for them a new stadium or they will leave…all these owners are wealthy, they all have contacts with contactors who do these jobs, they can get them done, and they can pay for it themselves,…and of course now that theyve built it and paid for it when they use it, or lease it out, they get all the money…so is it safe to assume if say the city of St Paul needs a new county office complex built with a seven story parking garage they will try and get the Vikes to pay for it or they will leave?…whatever city/county pays a cent to these owners with tax money, well those officials who allow it need to be prosecuted.

Before he was elected, Dayton was the biggest supporter of a stadium, and even said whatever landed on his desk he would sign.

This is just backdoor politics. He is pushing the Minneapolis site more not because of infrastructure costs in Ramsey, but to make nice with Minneapolis mayor Rybak and Co..

Wilf has the ultimate control in this situation. He has everything he wants in the Ramsey County site, as he did in the proposed Anoka County site. This time he wont let it slip away from him due to Minneapolis, and if it does, he will walk out of the state.

“Mick, you are looking at it from a fans perspective. The owners see luxury suites, club seats, parking, concessions, and ‘amenities’ as non-shared revenue sources.”

Recon163, I agree with you; you are correct, but that’s why I later wrote that the whole structure of NFL economics is out of wack. I think that is what is driving a lot of these ridiculously priced and outrageously over done stadiums around the league.

One side says the road improvements are needed and they cost 300 mill. The other side says we don’t need much improvement and anyway, we could do it with less than 80 mill. Solution: Agree to the 300 mill. the state promised to begin with, and however the team and county use it, that’s it, not a dime more from the state.( the Vikings and Ramsey Co. money is previously agreed to of course.) I do think if the Arden Hills deal falls through , that the Vikings are gone. BTW, take it from someone who lives in Philly, and goes to the Linc. The area around the stadium will be a circus for 4 hours before/after the game, the rest of the week clear sailing. Nothing you do to the roads will change that.

All the stadiums I mention have been built in the recent past, Lucas Field is two years old and has a roof and still costs $200 million less- that is not inflation. Think about how much $200 million means to a state economy right now, it’s the difference between closing schools/laying off teachers and a retractable roof or fancier scoreboards/suites. Where do you think the priorities should be? When I went to buy a new car, the model I got is great but it doesn’t have any extras or upgrades and it gets the job done. The same model loaded is out of my price range but at the end of the day its the same car. I’m simply asking the question that when such a massively expensive item is being billed to the sate, how come the tax payers don’t get options?

People have to understand that the stadium price is paid over 20-25 years. And over the course of that time, it brings in well over half of its own cost in proceeds to the state. Not to mention the fact that we benefit as a state from 300+ events held there.

Folks talk big about $1 billion to a state with a 5 billion deficit. But in reality we are talking about less than 0.05% of our budget being spent on this facility, when you cancel out what it brings in.

It is reckless and idiotic to even bring up numbers like a 5 billion dollar deficit.

Perhaps what Dayton is really saying is that the team stays in Minneapolis or is free to go? It is all in the politicians hands, so stop whining about your taxes. Taxes will be collected/spent one way or the other, without your approval. If the team leaves Minnesota, good luck getting another team. If you do, you’ll be spending more then you would have had to pay to have kept the Vikings. Dayton committed to $300 MM, so just keep your word. Regarding the road improvements, I’m sure there is already a budget for improvements, and these can be done over the next three years. Interesting that the figures already budgeted have not come out.

“You seem to forget those millionaire players play in the stadium, bringing the state millions in taxable income. Pretty much blows up your theory.”

If they have a half way competent tax person, your paying more taxes than they are. If they were getting millions in tax dollars off of the players, state would have no trouble paying for the stadium to begin with.

Don’t any of you people remember- Construction for the metro dump started in 1979 and was completed in 1982. During that time we were in a recession from the Carter years. Gas rationing, gas lines, prime interest rates at 20%, unemployment at 7-8%. It was then funded by a limited hotel/motel and liquor tax and a special district tax near the site. It costs 68 mill to build and came 2 mill under budget. Since then it has hosted everything from Super Bowl XXVI, the World Series twice, MLB allstar game in 85, numerous concerts,motocross, NCAA basketball final four -twice, regional high school football and baseball championships, the list goes on and on. Millions generated-spent on welfare and health care costs to illegal immigrants, social engineering campaigns, state pensions etc. God forbid you waste money on a new stadium/facility. When the Vikings leave you can thank the legislature and those people sniveling about entitlement cuts……………………

The governor, and the rest of us for that matter, need to be careful about our spending at the moment. It is very worrisome, as someone who has been out of college for 6 months and can’t even get a sniff I am really feeling the conditions.

As far as the rising gas prices, yes it has hurt my wallet, but looking at the global picture we still pay half of what some other countries pay, England for instance. I appreciate the history of cheap gas and individualized transportation, but it was inevitable that someday we would have to join the rest of the world and pay higher taxes on our gas.

Wishful thinking, wouldn’t it be nice if the gas companies took some of their record profits and invested it in something beneficial for our country, rather than focus on lining our pockets. Think of the money Dr. Salk could have made by selling his polio vaccine. Could you imagine an American corporation today doing something heroic like that. If we’re lucky they will give us all a free taco one day out of the year.

Don’t any of you people remember- Construction for the metro dump started in 1979 and was completed in 1982. During that time we were in a recession from the Carter years. Gas rationing, gas lines, prime interest rates at 20%, unemployment at 7-8%. It was then funded by a limited hotel/motel and liquor tax and a special district tax near the site. It costs 68 mill to build and came 2 mill under budget. Since then it has hosted everything from Super Bowl XXVI, the World Series twice, MLB allstar game in 85, numerous concerts,motocross, NCAA basketball final four -twice, regional high school football and baseball championships, the list goes on and on. Millions generated-spent on welfare and health care costs to illegal immigrants, social engineering campaigns, state pensions etc. God forbid you waste money on a new stadium/facility. When the Vikings leave you can thank the legislature and those people sniveling about entitlement cuts……………………
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It’s funny. Lots of people can call the guys at PFT douche bags, but my comment that attacks the intellectual strength of this post gets rejected.

Just so everybody knows…These people (meaning PFT) want a franchise in LA. And they want it to be the Vikes.

That’s why they willfully fail to see the truth about the stadium situation in Minnesota. The trusth is the interested parties are negotiating, unlike some other people in the pro football world these days.

ruvelligwebuike says:
May 15, 2011 1:51 PM
I guarantee if the Vikings were called the Hmong/Somalian GLBT team, Dayton would not only pay for the entire stadium, he’d sneak an extra $90 Million in for art displays along 694.
==================================== I had a good laugh @ this until I realized how accurate it was. Then I was sad that he will be governing MN for a while.
Why does Mark Dayton always look like he is about to cry?

1993 Minnesota North Stars move to Dallas after not getting a new stadium for roughly 105 million (and sexual harassment case). What happens? Minnesota and St. Paul come together to build Xcel Energy Center for 130 million and get an expansion team in 2000 called the Minnesota Wild. Minnesota goes 7 years without NHL hockey and NHL hockey related tax revenues, and build a new stadium for 25 million more than it would have 8 years earlier.

1960 Minneapolis Lakers move to Los Angeles after the season because they wanted a new stadium in Minneapolis instead of playing in a 10,o00 seat Minneapolis Auditorum. What happens? Minneapolis is given in expansion team and they build Target Center in 1989 for 104 million dollars. Minnesota goes 29 years without professional basketball and loses out on NBA tax revenues for that amount of time.

Minnesota Twins beg the state for a new stadium for 15 years before Target Field gets built. They could have built Target Field in 2000 for 3oo million like Comerica Park was. Twins get Target Field for 545 million. In case your scoring at home that is 10 years and 245 million more than should have been.

So yeah, let the Vikings go, we know in a handful of years we will build a new stadium for 1.6 billion and attract the Jacksonville Jaguars or some other crappy team. But hey, like so many other teams around here we let them go only to know what we are missing.

Taxpayers shouldn’t be required to pay anything for these stadiums. We’re already being ripped off by the incredibly greedy owners when they charge us $10 for a warm Budweiser and $15 for a stale hot dog.

In Seattle, the SuperSonics (NBA team) wanted a new arena and started making demands, threatening to leave for OK City. State and City government just didn’t care, because they didn’t have the cash, and because the previous stadium deals for the Mariners and Seahawks were wildly unpopular with taxpayers and cost a few politicians their jobs. So the Sonics totally screwed Seattle and just left the city and went to Oklahoma, tons of fans are pissed off and have stopped watching the NBA completely, and taxpayers were left with the bill for maintenance and upkeep on an unused Key Arena in Seattle. That was the thanks Seattle got for supporting the NBA for almost 50 years. We spent literally BILLIONS on watching the NBA, building an arena for the local NBA team, and the NBA just spit in our faces at the drop of a hat. Fans are loyal to the teams, but teams aren’t one bit loyal to fans, they could care less about anything other than taking as much of your money as they possibly can.

The whole thing is sickening, and it shows why America is in decline. We allow, and in some cases even encourage (at least, Republicans do) the super-wealthy to do whatever they want to make more money. And so we allow them to send our jobs overseas, shut down factories and move production somewhere else so they can raise their “margins”, and then give them tax breaks and bailouts when they start crying about needing more. I for one am sick of it, and so are the majority of Americans.

Publicly-subsidized sports stadiums and arenas are a sham and both sports fans AND taxpayers should be outraged.

The Star Tribune owns much of the property around the Metrodome site that in 2007 was being considered, Wilf talked about acquiring their HQ for the then new proposed site. so of course they would be trying to de-rail the Arden Hills Site.

The Star Tribune reports about the vikings stadium shows how desperate they really are in trying to convince the public that the Minneapolis site is what the people should want.

I agree with the Vikings in that the road construction (which was needed before this proposal in Arden Hills) will be closer to 80 Million.

Also, The Ammunition Plant will need federal money as a superfund site to be cleaned up, which would lay the foundation for developing the site saving money there as well.

Wilf will be spending 400 million of his own money and will not be allowed to develop any land around the stadium for himself opening more opportunities for local businesses to flourish.

Funny how a clueless Packer fan gets the thumbs up… Oh, the vikes are so historic! No they aren’t… The vikes are an expansion team put in place to stop the bleeding in the 60s of the AFL taking over.

Since their beginnings, they have had problems with fan support and making money. The team has been bought and sold more times than a craigslist hottie. They have no viking hall of fame, they toss the name of a trainer who was in charge of a players death because they can’t come up with enough names for a ring of fame.

There is nothing historic about the vikings ‘cept failure. I actually think it was a mistake kicking Tampa out of our division for the vikes. AT least Tampa won something and the rivalry was far more fun to watch.

This whole thing come down to whether the folks of Minnesota want to support this loser franchise or not. Right now the folks don’t want to. Hard to blame them.

goombar2 says:
May 16, 2011 12:40 PM
Funny how a clueless Packer fan gets the thumbs up… Oh, the vikes are so historic! No they aren’t… The vikes are an expansion team put in place to stop the bleeding in the 60s of the AFL taking over.

Since their beginnings, they have had problems with fan support and making money. The team has been bought and sold more times than a craigslist hottie. They have no viking hall of fame, they toss the name of a trainer who was in charge of a players death because they can’t come up with enough names for a ring of fame.

There is nothing historic about the vikings ‘cept failure. I actually think it was a mistake kicking Tampa out of our division for the vikes. AT least Tampa won something and the rivalry was far more fun to watch.

This whole thing come down to whether the folks of Minnesota want to support this loser franchise or not. Right now the folks don’t want to. Hard to blame them.
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Again, why are you posting this? What is the name of this crusade you and a select few other Packer fans are on? Fortunately, I dont put all Packer fans in the same boat as a few idiots on here who give them a bad name. What bounty will you receive for your efforts? Nothing huh? So you’re doing this because…??? Interesting.