If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

As far as the old Inova TIROS goes, I for one was very happy when they switched over to a traditional reflector. I still have my old TIROS Inova T2.

Throw was great! But you ended up playing "follow the bouncing ball," as that was exactly what you got out of the old Inova optic. A beam of light that looked like a narrow ball which you had to move all over the place to see anything that wasn't literally directly in front of the narrow beam.

When turboBB and I compared his M3LT with my M6, I noticed that the beam from his M3LT actually spread out quite a bit when distance was increased. Basically you got plenty of useful spill that, ironically, was all hotspot that simply spread open over distance.

Monocrom, that is exactly my observation when I compared the UB3T with the LX2. It's a comparison that I would like to do again soon, but I noticed too that the UB3T spread out when the distance was increased. Initially I was a bit disappointed about it (something wrong with the TIR in the UB3T I thought). The LX2 beam seemed to stay tighter. During one test it was foggy outside and in my observation the LX2 did a better job in the fog. Later I realised that the test was not done with the both the lights at max, so 800 vs 200 lumens. Not really honest, but it gave an impression. Can't wait to compare them again.

conclusion: UB3T is a spot light for middle range? I don't have many other lights to compare, so I can't judge on this.

I've done a Max output test on Rayovac made-in-the-USA batteries (manufacture date code April 18, 2011), to compare to my standard Titanium Innovation cells (no date code, but were purchased within the last two months, same as the Rayovacs). The Rayovacs are believed to be the same batteries as other USA-brands such as battery station, energizer, etc (and maybe even panasonic/surefire).

Although this is a n=1 experiment, it is interesting to note the Rayovacs dropped out of regulation faster, but provided more light overall during the exhaustion phase of the cells. I have noticed this pattern before, relative to the Titanium cells (i.e. they seem hold regulation well, but deplete more quickly once nearly out of juice).

Originally Posted by Monocrom

When turboBB and I compared his M3LT with my M6, I noticed that the beam from his M3LT actually spread out quite a bit when distance was increased. Basically you got plenty of useful spill that, ironically, was all hotspot that simply spread open over distance.

That's a good description, and you can see it in my 100-yard beamshot. The hotspot keeps wideing into the distance, in an even fashion. This is something you don't see on reflectored lights.

Originally Posted by jh333233

"30 lumens (stage 6) has a very noticeable PWM-like effect Flashing and buzzing is obvious?

It is not so much "flashing" as a slightly stroboscopic effect, especially noticeable in the periphery of your vision. Many people tend to associate it with moving objects, but it doesn't need to be - the rapid saccades of your eye (even when viewing static scenes) can be enough to triger the perception in those who are sensitive to it. Sensitivity to PWM is highly variable - those who are not sensitive to it will not notice it all on the UB3T, those who are (myself included) will likely only notice it on the 30 lumen level.

There is absolutely no buzzing on my UB3T, at any level. It is something of a common misconception here that buzzing is associated with PWM. Buzzing is believed to be a symptom of inductor whine, and it can occur on current-controlled lights as well (i.e. it has more to do with the exact layout of the circuit and interference being picked up by the inductor). I think the association comes from the fact that it is more common on inexpensive lights where the circuit design was not given enough attention, which also happen to commonly be PWM-based. But in my experience, it does not in any way correlate with the presence of PWM, or its frequency. When present, it seems to be associated most closely with specific drive currents or voltages on susceptible circuits (i.e. you hear it louder on some levels or some battery sources).

conclusion: UB3T is a spot light for middle range? I don't have many other lights to compare, so I can't judge on this.

It's definetely a long range flashlight as long as the throw on TURBO is 40,000 lux , so 4 x times more than the LX2 .
Even on the next level - 9 - , around 500 lumens according to Selfbuilt's measurements it should put more than double of LX2 lux .
That light is made for throw .
500 lumens and a good throw for LEVEL 9 , seems decent as long as the regulation is good for 3hrs using 3 x CR123 . If 2 x 17500 cells would also provide a good regulation that would be another PRO .

It's definetely a long range flashlight as long as the throw on TURBO is 40,000 lux , so 4 x times more than the LX2 .
Even on the next level - 9 - , around 500 lumens according to Selfbuilt's measurements it should put more than double of LX2 lux .
That light is made for throw .
500 lumens and a good throw for LEVEL 9 , seems decent as long as the regulation is good for 3hrs using 3 x CR123 . If 2 x 17500 cells would also provide a good regulation that would be another PRO .

It depends a bit on what you consider long range. Some will consider 250 meters long range, others consider 1000 meters long range. I'm not experienced enough to judge on that. I know that the UB3T doesn't reach 1000 meters. There are lights that do reach 1000 meters and more. Maybe those are considered spotlights?

On a side note: 800 lumens (UB3T)is twice as bright as 200 lumens (LX2). You need 4x as many lumens to double the output (to the human eye).

Of course I understand what you find ironic about it but aren't we all blind at night? In the dark I can't see the white stripes that correspond with the 11 settings on my UB3T

Yep, the irony is not lost on me either. A flashlight user interface that is difficult to operate in the dark. Sure, you can bring another light to see the white stripes and avoid unwanted modes. But it really would be nice to have some tactile feedback like a bump or something to let you know the next click down will be the two lumen Min and not an 800 lumen SOS blast.

You can use the light like an LX2 with a low setting on the selector ring and tighten the tailcap fully for Max but sometimes Max is too much for my purposes on the high setting. The old SF U2 switch is so much easier to use, you call always dial it up or down to the stop and know where you are with the light off or on. Henry's HDS Rotary is the same way, and it also has the fancy blinking modes but they are hidden behind coded clicks in the tailcap switch.

Wonder if the awkwardly placed SOS mode was added to the UB3T late in the game in response to some government contract requirement? Or maybe there was originally a one lumen mode that wasn't stable and the the other modes had already been tested and coded into the firmware so SOS was added instead? There was apparently an emitter change from 400 to 800 lumens at some point from past posts here. Also, I believe a four-die emitter is mentioned in some of the earlier SF advertising.

The optics on the light really pack a punch. Since it is adjustable in brightness, you can turn it down to visually compare beams with other lights. The UB3T has very little spill in the far field, much less than an LX2 to my eyes. As a result, most of the energy is packed in the tight spot which is great for seeing something in the distance but maybe not as good for a general search.

Great review, really appreciate the effort you've gone too.
Now to sell a kidney ;-)

Thanks, but LOL.

I realize the unique beam profile of the UB3T may be appealing, but the price does lead to sticker shock. There are certainly much less expensive options that provide equivalent throw (albeit with more spill). The Thrunite Catapult certainly comes to mind - and they also offer an optional diffuser cover (haven't tested it, but it looks similar to the Surefire one).

Well, I was not that lucky, but I have tried probably thousand reflectors and optics on field test, real world use, and I know what I say. Peripheral light, the one you get on the corona, is pretty important for your vision system, so not using this capability has no point. What is more, on a light which is theoretically aimed to a tactical use you are missing what is coming from the sides... which is usually what is more dangerous. Those who want to kill you don't come upfront. You saw the pics... Can you tell me how many people or threaths can you see on the sides of the road?

I love the diffuser we recently purchased directly from Surefire. We go on long walks at night, and with the diffuser attached, the UB3T will light up the path in front of you simular to the Surefire saint on the lower settings. We also have found another great use for the UB3T. Now with the shorter days, we have to take our Whippet and IG to the soccer field for their run. The field is very dark with an artificial turf. Without the diffuser we can find our hounds at ease. We also discovered another great feature. It will charge on the high setting, a glow at night chuck-it ball in a matter of seconds verses minutes with an ordinary light. One thing we have noticed that does not happen with our other surefire lights is when the batteries run low the light flickers which is quite obnoxious even if you twist the UB3T to its lowest setting. On our other surefire's they usually operate with usable light output until the light can't be activated al all. After over a month of use we are on our second set of batteries. We both feel that the ring settings should be Off, then the lowest setting up to the highest oupiut setting. Then Strobe and SOS after that. It would be nice for to be able to activate the Strobe on any setting with multiple quick pushes on the tail switch. If you wanted to disorient an attacker in the dark it makes no sense to fumble with the selector ring for the strobe activation.

I sure hope Surefire will still make available the diffuser (in black) in the future. It makes for tremendous flexibililty using the UB3T in practical night illumination situations.

any chance of getting a runtime graph using 17500's from you selfbuilt? i know with the head being non-removable you risk the cells geting stuck, but if its in the name of science...

Sorry, don't have any 17500 cells.

Based on my experience, 2x18500 cells typically give time to 50% runtimes pretty close to 3xCR123A (the difference is CR123A tends to drop off gradually, whereas 18500 cuts out quickly). Based on rated capacity difference with 17500, I would assume no more three-quarters the max runtime.

Saw some discussion in other threads of the relative spill of the UB3T compared to other lights. The UB3T definitely has a relatively narrow beam with little spill. However, it has more spill than the pic below illustrates:

As discussed in my latest 100-yard beamshot round-up thread, I find these pics all seem somewhat underexposed relative to what my eye sees in real life. It's hard to find good overall exposure settings for these outdoor shots - either you give an advantage to spill comparisons (i.e., overexposed), or throw comparisons (i.e., underexposed).

You will never find a single exposure that matches all the dynamic filtering our eyes and brain do when processing a scene. And since the goal of these shots was to compare the throw, I've erred more on the side of under-exposed side of things.

Do you happen to see or know how long green battery indicator last after turning on the light on max. output level with brand new cells? ( Does the green turn the orange in a few sceond? )

I don't recall how long it was with brand new cells, but with slightly used cells, it does turn from green to orange very quickly on the max level. Presumably the voltage sag under high load is enough to trigger the sensor shift.

FYI, this review is fairly old now, and it's possible things have changed. I understand for example that recent versions have a different optic, with a less squarely-focused beam. But I haven't seen one personally.

I don't recall how long it was with brand new cells, but with slightly used cells, it does turn from green to orange very quickly on the max level. Presumably the voltage sag under high load is enough to trigger the sensor shift.

FYI, this review is fairly old now, and it's possible things have changed. I understand for example that recent versions have a different optic, with a less squarely-focused beam. But I haven't seen one personally.

I heard the recent version came out, and has a different optic as well. Your kind reply is very helpful & informative. Thanks a lot!