Pre-War AAA Big Car Championship top-tens

Well, I think I now have the points system for the pre-war Eastern and Midwestern AAA circuits sussed... still, NOT the Pacific Coast - that one was always different, and I will need a few more hours of therapy before I tackle that once more ...;)

Generally, it's 2.4 points per mile for first place, 1.6 for second, 1.2 for third and 0.8 for fourth, with races of ten miles and more paying 0.4 points per mile for fifth, and races of twenty miles and more 0.2 for sixth.

Apart from the odd irregularity*, that should be it, and the system appears to have been in place for the full period of time, i.e. from 1932 to '41. Further tests are still needed, and will be performed, to iron out those irregularities, and I still can't compile tables for any year, but I'm confident of my findings nonetheless.

I have found a 1935 newspaper article that stated that the AAA held 125 races that year, fourteen more than the year before. So far, I have 122 races in my database for 1935, and 111 for 1934, although a few of them are "shaky", i.e. I do not really know if the races took place at all. Doesn't look too shabby, does it?

The top twenty in points (i.e. position, driver, total points and number of races) are from various sources, mainly a Chicago Daily Tribune article of October 25 in 1936. I have compiled the rest of the table from my own database and the scoring system outlined above. There's all sorts of imperfections coming into play here, not least of all poor legibility of old (microfilmed) newspaper articles!!!

To wit, only six of the top twenty driver points totals match, namely those of Mays, Gardner, Winn, Roberts, Stapp and Tomei - you'll notice that's three of the top four scorers, so it's not too bad. The differences are, in detail: Shaw (+ 53.5), Cummings (+ 30), McGurk (- 0.5), Willman (- 12), Horn (- 1.5), Brisko (- 4), Andres (- 2), Connor (- 4), Snyder (- 3), Johnson (- 38), Fowler (- 20), Barringer (+ 66), West (+ 9.5), Beeder (- 4) - mostly minor, probably due to some heat finishes that I couldn't find, or perhaps typos. Overall it doesn't make much difference to the outcome, except for Ted Johnson and George Barringer - I am suspecting a relief driver scenario at the Springfield 100-miler, the point-heavy race that I wasn't able to find much on at all, actually!

Also, notice that the calculated point totals of MacKenzie (156) and Nalon (76) would put them into the top twenty, if correct. In the case of the former, it is possible that he was not listed because of his demise - as mentioned earlier, old points tables are sometimes a bit quirky in that regard! As for Nalon, he may have gone "outlaw" again before the end of the season, although I don't have any info on that - he was actually entered for the (cancelled) October 25 race. Incidentally, the number of races in the table are from my research, differences to the newspaper article are indicated (+ or -), and may be down to faulty research on my part, or typos again. The number of Fast Times don't add up because of missing info, and some of it is suspect anyway!!!

As speculated on before, there appear to be some modifications necessary to the scoring system posted above - I'm still not sure if consies paid full points, and longer races appear to have paid points to 7th and 8th place finishers. The further 'down the line', the more difficult gets the research! Most sources simply ignore the backmarkers, or list the names in order without the correlative placing, so it's even more subject to errors and omissions than already usual!

I will go into a bit more detail in subsequent posts, and will endeavour to put "the story of the championship" into the context of the season. Some may have noticed some oddities in the table, no?;) Well, the Midwestern Circuit was always "a bit peculiar", which will be in need of a few explanations, but the sheer paucity of events made it possible to compile this table in the first place, so no complaints from my side!

Hello, longtime lurker here. I have registered finally and after awaiting activation.... I can now post.

My interest is mainly from the years 1930-1941. I am looking for photos and info on Gilmore Oil Co sponsored cars; Blu Green Special, Red Lion Special, Gilmore Special, Gilmore Speedway Special, Gilmore Lion Special, Gilmore Lion Cub Special, etc.... Their co-sponsored cars can be detected too for they'd have their lion logos somewhere on car body. I have several albums full of photos and programs from 1930-1941 that I am always looking for more info on. Any help I can get is very much appreciated.

Anyways, I was looking for info on Mario Bianchi yesterday morning and was directed to this thread. Below is a link to a photo I have of him, I believe, standing behind the Red Lion Special at Portland Speedway (Date/Year?, maybe 1932). Does anybody have any more info on or pictures of him?

Missing is the March 26 100 lap race at Ascot. Bob Carey won in the Marks Miller setting a new record of 45 minutes, 41.81 seconds... Triplett-2nd... Chet Gardner-3rd... Sam Palmer-4th... Babe Stapp-5th

For April 2nd (Bob Carey's last race)- Carey won the first 25 lap heat in 11 minutes, 8 seconds. Triplett won the second 25 lap heat in 15 minutes, 21.40 seconds. Triplett won the 40 lap main event in 17 minutes, 57 seconds.

Below is one of a dozen or so photos I purchased from the grandson of Joe Marks. March 26 Helmet Dash victory kiss from Celeste Edwards...

About the Mario Bianchi pic, I would believe it to be a few years younger, 1935 would be my guess. I have seen Mario in a #36 "Red Lion" in a roster of 1935 Ascot cars; also the car looks a bit too "classy" for me to have run in the Northwest in 1932 - no disrespect meant, but the money simply wasn't there!

Two more pictures of the same car can be found in the late Don Radbruch's "Dirt Track Auto Racing 1919-1941", p260: dated May 25, 1934, the car carries #2 and the "Gilmore Special" name, and the paint scheme is more reminiscent of the later Bill White/Shorty Cantlon "Cocktail Hour Cigarette" and "Sullivan & O'Brien" cars at Indy, which was quite popular during the latter part of the thirties.

Originally posted by GILMORE Missing is the March 26 100 lap race at Ascot. Bob Carey won in the Marks Miller setting a new record of 45 minutes, 41.81 seconds... Triplett-2nd... Chet Gardner-3rd... Sam Palmer-4th... Babe Stapp-5th

For April 2nd (Bob Carey's last race)- Carey won the first 25 lap heat in 11 minutes, 8 seconds. Triplett won the second 25 lap heat in 15 minutes, 21.40 seconds. Triplett won the 40 lap main event in 17 minutes, 57 seconds.

Below is one of a dozen or so photos I purchased from the grandson of Joe Marks. March 26 Helmet Dash victory kiss from Celeste Edwards...

Ahhh... you don't get me that easily!

I have March 26 as the date for a rain-out at Oakland, and chances are the boys all towed north only to find out they went in vain! In fact, the data you post for March 26 matches what I have for February 26, too much of a coincidence?;)

Interesting! I still think it to be an error, as I have my info from contemporary newspapers, and it would be odd for them to miss a race, wouldn't it? Does the rest of the race info match what I posted about the Feb 26 event?

Originally posted by fines Interesting! I still think it to be an error, as I have my info from contemporary newspapers, and it would be odd for them to miss a race, wouldn't it? Does the rest of the race info match what I posted about the Feb 26 event?

P.S. Yes, you're right about the "triple feature" on April 2.

I believe your info is right. I have found "misprints" in these old mags before.

Difficult to date these pictures! I believe the car ran for the first time on February 5 at Oakland, winning the main event there, then the following week at Ascot (retired). February 19 was a rain-out at Oakland, and then came the Ascot win already posted. March saw three races, Imperial/El Centro on the 5th, but I'm not sure Carey and the team went there, then an Ascot event postponed from the 12th to the 19th (retired) and the mentioned rain-out at Oakland. Then two more Ascot events (April 2 and 16), with a free weekend in between.

That means we're looking at five Ascot races, and one each at Oakland and Imperial, plus a possible Oakland appearance before the rains on March 26! I've had one of the latter confuse me before, there's a picture of Bill Cummings sitting in "Poison Lil" with #6 at Oakland, trouble is he never raced that car with that number at that track, only at Ascot, or #5!!! Caused me a lot of head scratching, and a wrong theory in desperation! In the end, I found out that a race at Oakland was rained out after qualifications had already begun, so that picture was probably taken then - phew!

Notice how the lion is pale in the first pic, and in a different position in the third? I have seen another pic of it with the lion in the same position as pic #3, but without the "LION HEAD" legend (helmet different, too)! That already makes three different configurations for five events (I'm pretty sure all are from Ascot)!

I've helped out a couple Louis & Eddie Meyer collectors in the past and one of them emailed some of those photos to Louis "Sonny" Meyer, Jr. I knew most of the info he gave already but was still excited to receive the email from him, a legend himself. Sonny's response is below...

"The Gilmore # 6 Car was built by my Dad. He sold the car to Joe Marks. Dad was building two new cars for the 1933 Indy 500. One for himself to drive and the other for Bob Carey to drive. My Dad was helping on the car as he couldnt drive due to a broken collar bone and left shoulder (notice how his shirt is out in front because of the brace under it). When my Dad went thru the fence at Ascot and couldnt drive, he hired Carey to drive for him. April 16, 1933 Carey was killed at Ascot and this could be the picture the morning of the day he crashed. Dad healed up enough and went on to win the Indy 500 for the second time in May 1933."

Am I correct that the '33 Marks Indy 500 entry was the second car he built and that was the car Carey was to drive that year?

Here a some more Joe Marks photos.. Purchased several of the #3 car at Indy, all have Wilcox in the car though. Last one is from Rose's 2nd at Detroit...

Originally posted by GILMORE "The Gilmore # 6 Car was built by my Dad. He sold the car to Joe Marks. Dad was building two new cars for the 1933 Indy 500. One for himself to drive and the other for Bob Carey to drive. My Dad was helping on the car as he couldnt drive due to a broken collar bone and left shoulder (notice how his shirt is out in front because of the brace under it). When my Dad went thru the fence at Ascot and couldnt drive, he hired Carey to drive for him. April 16, 1933 Carey was killed at Ascot and this could be the picture the morning of the day he crashed. Dad healed up enough and went on to win the Indy 500 for the second time in May 1933."

Am I correct that the '33 Marks Indy 500 entry was the second car he built and that was the car Carey was to drive that year?

Well, "building" the cars is a bit of an exaggeration, I'm afraid - "race preparation" is the word we'd be using today. In those days, that included a total teardown of chassis and engine - well, not too different from today, actually, except that the drivers usually did it themselves. Imagine Lewis Hamilton sitting in front of a million pieces of his McLaren/Mercedes-Benz!

Lou Meyer was preparing two cars, the 1931 Miller of Ralph Hepburn, who was still nursing his 1932 New Years Day Oakland injuries (though he would eventually drive another car at Indy) for himself, and the 1931 Meyer/Miller, the car he had driven to fourth in '31, and Carey again to fourth in '32, for Carey. After Carey's death, Howdy Wilcox was selected to drive the car, qualified it for the second row and was then disqualified for medical reasons. Rose stepped in, but retired after a stormy drive.

Perhaps the most complicated scoring formula devised, certainly for its time, but I think I have now managed to find out how it worked, at least for the top finishing positions, and for the year 1933! I am almost sure it wasn't changed during all seven years of the championship, but I'll need to check a few items first... If there's interest, I'll post my findings in the afternoon...

Seems my joy was a bit premature...

Last night I thought I had it cracked, with just a few minor irregularities that might have been down to typos or even miscalculations, but when I checked a few more race results this morning... IT'S ALL GONE!!! CHAOS REIGNS AGAIN!!! AARRRGHH!!!!!

Sigh! Sometimes I do believe they really drew these figures out of a hat...

[shakes his head in disbelief...]

Well, eight months on (gosh, where's the time? ), I am still not much further with the Pacific Coast Drivers Championship points, although I know by now why the scoring is so unpredictable - it's closely coupled to the purse breakdown, and as such it is subject to change, quite simply! The purse structure may stay the same for months, but then also change from race to race, so that without detailed info it is impossible to reconstruct the standings! I believe that studying the AAA microfilm reels will finally yield a lot of that data, but especially for the very early races the outlook is rather bleak. Oh well...

On the other hand, I have also good news, because I managed to discover how the Owners Championship worked - it's actually very simple, and was the same for all races, completely disregarding the different race distances, and only counting main event results:

Unfortunately, finding out who drove what is not that simple, and owners point standings are almost as rare as hen's teeth or rocking horse droppings, but with a bit of detective work and lots of sleuthing, coupled with the indispensable aid of copies from Ascot programme pages provided by Jeremy GILMORE , I managed to reconstruct the final points table of the...

Hm, well, yes... I actually expected that... I started this table several weeks ago, before the new software "hit" us, and it doesn't really work out like I planned it! Maybe I should have arranged the points in columns instead of lines, but I was not going to start all over again. Hm.

Anyway, a few words of explanation: the top 20 positions are from the programme of the last race of the season, with me editing in the points of that last race. Below are a few more entries that didn't make the top twenty, although you will note that the first two (#28 Christensen and #9 Ward/Fox) should have done so! I have no real explanation for their omission from the final table, except that they both disappeared from the Championship around mid-season, but then again Louis Meyer's #15 did the same! Also, you will need to understand that the Championship was for owner's entries, rather than real cars, hence the (n) and (o) suffices to the #6 Sparks and #1 White entries - both started the season with an "old" car (o), and finished with a "new" one (n).

A few more idiosyncrasies: #30 Martinson is actually the same car as #9 Ward/Fox, but with a new owner mid-season, so that points were allocated seperately. Yet, #9 Haskell was the former #48 Blauvelt, but kept the points scored by the first owner, and the same goes for #2 Harrison/#23 Bielch, #18 Moore/Edwards and, intriguingly, #9 Fox which was #9 Ward in the first race(s) of the season! Somewhat less controversally, #28 Duray also ran as #64 Duray, initially - it's Leon Duray's Miller, actually, that departed in August for Italy and the Monza Grand Prix, and upon returning to California in October received a new coat of paint, and a new number!

Finally, it should perhaps be pointed out that the Owners Championship was the real highlight of the season's final race, as the Drivers Championship had already been clinched a couple of weeks earlier by Ernie Triplett, despite the fact that 100 points were at stake for the winner of this race, the most ever for a Pacific Coast Championship round! But there were still three cars in the running for the Owners title, and three other cars were even more closely bunched fighting for 5th place. Leading the chase was the #6 Sparks, the "defending Champion", but even second place in the race would not have been enough if #19 De Paolo won, and the latter (driven by Wilbur Shaw) led the race for the first 150 of 200 laps, except for a period after the inevitable pit stop! Then, the whole thing ended in tears as Al Gordon spun the #23 Bielch in Turn 1, trapping Shaw who had no alternative but to crash into it, nearly taking Triplett in #1 White out with him - and that wasn't even the end of it!

Now Triplett led, and was in a position to clinch the title for his owner, too, provided Bill Cummings in the Sparks couldn't finish the long grind in the top four, but instead "Wild Bill" was "putting on the coals", and trying to wrest the lead from Ernie, until a puncture put him into the guard rail, eight laps from the finish! Cummings managed to steer his racer to the pits, had the tyre changed and stormed off again, narrowly catching Carl Ryder before the end to finish third - phew! The fight for 5th place in the championship was equally close and dramatic, with Chet Gardner laying down the gauntlet by qualifying his own #2 for pole position, then losing out within seconds of the start by crashing and flipping in the first turn! Incidentally, the overturned racer was left in its position for the rest of the race, and provided an interesting background for the photographers when snapping pics of the Shaw/Gordon incident, over an hour later! Now the decision lay between #44 Jacobs, driven by Ryder, and #9 Haskell (Stubby Stubblefield), and whoever finished ahead would take the spot, but with both running in close company for nearly the full distance the issue wasn't decided until the very last lap - 11,000 spectators simply ate it up!

Hm, well, yes... I actually expected that... I started this table several weeks ago, before the new software "hit" us, and it doesn't really work out like I planned it! Maybe I should have arranged the points in columns instead of lines, but I was not going to start all over again. Hm.

Seems to work OK, other than the width, but it's more familiar this way around than in columns.

The Christensen and Fox entries may have been forgotten by the programme editors? More difficult to forget Meyer as an Indy winner. Plus if Martinson had taken over the Fox car it would be obvious that Fox was no longer in the points battle. And there were new numbers 28 and 9, so it would have confused.

Great work though fines. How big were owners' championships compared to drivers'? It's also funny how many races counted for the regional titles when the national was down to a couple of races.

You might have said it somewhere else, but was the car owned by Sparks and Weirick from new until 1936, and then by Weirick alone until 1949?

That is the way I understand it. It's not always obvious, as ownership is sometimes assigned to one or the other, and sometimes to "Sparks & Weirick" in the early years. But from 1937 onwards, Art Sparks was working for (and sometimes against ) Joel Thorne (Thorne Engineering Co.), so Weirick would be the sole owner.

My database for this timeframe now includes circa 4,000 races, of which circa 2,500 were AAA events - minus circa 150 Class B events, and minus circa 350 races of which I don't know the winner, so that this list now includes almost 300 drivers with very close to 2,000 race wins, the total distance of which adds up to more than 90,000 miles! Circa 250 additional AAA races were cancelled or postponed, and at a rough guess I suspect that about the same number of AAA races is still "out there", waiting to be discovered! Additionally, there are still many question marks about some of those races, as the info came from sources that have subsequently proved to be not reliable, and on many occasions the sanctioning body is not exactly clear - for the record, in the case of co-sanctions involving AAA the races have been included in this list, of course.

What makes the list interesting is that by adding up the "winning miles", i.e. the distances covered in the races won, it sort of levels the field for those who prefered to race in few long races against those who ran many short ones. You will notice that, for example, Tommy Hinnershitz racked up about the same figure of "winning miles" with almost a hundred wins, against Bill Vukovich with merely four! Thus, it about accurately reflects the status of the drivers, as the prime motivator in professional racing is always the purse, and in AAA that was always closely connected to the overall distance of the races. Overall I'm pretty well pleased with the list, as in my opinion it much better reflects reality in ranking than does a list which merely tabulates overall race wins, or points won in National Championship races alone.