MPEG Streamclip I had no luck with whatsoever. Very buggy from the outset, can't even adjust the volume using the in-app slider. Uninstalled very quickly, along with the other junk you have to install to make it "work".

Free Video Dub looked more promising at first, but unfortunately it too failed to deliver—the absolute finest sensitivity with which you can select your cutting point is one-half ( 0.5 ) second. That's twelve to fifteen ( 12–15 ) frames and is a pretty bizarre way to write a piece of software. Also, for the short time I did try it, I would have to renavigate to the folder containing my clip every time I reloaded it, because it wasn't remembering its location. That's something else I would put in the bizarre category because I don't believe I've ever encountered another piece of software with this minor but irritating flaw. But I would have kept it if it was just that ; the deal breaker is the ½-second resolution.

If/when I find a package that allows the simple start point / end point editing of a video clip without re-encoding the whole thing, and without throwing in annoying and unnecessary quirks like the above two, I'll post it . . . here, if the thread OP can edit his post, separately if he can't.

A big general thank you for the good info I've gleaned from this board these last few weeks.

The biggest problem with most free editors is that you can only cut at keyframes/intra frames and they can be several seconds a part. You might be able to select correct frame but when you save/export you wont get the exact cut.

I can, of course, just go for one of the more established packages where frame selection isn't a problem, but (a) I think for the most part they will recode the whole clip, and (b) I actually prefer small footprint apps that I call on mainly for one particular purpose, effectively turning those little apps into "tools" of a sort.

I notice you said “…the biggest problem with most free software…” (emphasis mine) ; is it significantly more difficult then to code an app in a way that allows the user to stop on a particular frame ? You mentioned “key frames” ; I'm familiar with the term and general concept, but guess I need to study up on it a bit more. Help lower my frustration levels when dealing with vid rendering apps.

Keyframes are a kind of "independent frame" which don't rely on information from other frames in order to decode them. That's why video generally needs to be cut on a keyframe. You can't cut on a non-keyframe as the preceding frames can contain information required to decode the following frames. "Stopping" on a non-keyframe really isn't the problem as such.

If I'm just splitting an MKV in a few places I use MKVMergeGUI. To find the keyframes I open the video in MPC-HC and use the Shift key along with the left right arrows which jumps between keyframes. When I've found the closest keyframe to where I want to cut I make note of the time and set the split point in MKVMergeGUI a second before that (MKVMergeGUI splits on the keyframe following the specified split pont).

For editing and splitting/joining with a preview you could try Video To Video Converter. It has a "commercial remover" and "file splitter" under the Tools menu and it'll work with lots of file types. You still need to cut on keyframes.

VideoReDo TV Suite is obviously the best choice if you can afford it. If you do a lot of TV captures or editing of mp4/mkv files it's worth the $100 price tag.

I like Free Video Dub. You have to have the patience though cause it only makes one good cut at a time. If you try to do more at a time, it will crash (so will VideoReDo though if you try to do too much too quick).

My first attempts were like hello_hello suggests with mkvmerge. I would open the file in Virtualdub and go to the frame to cut at and take notes and then use those points in mkvmerge.

You could also open the file in Virtualdub and select the same compression as the input file and choose smart rendering into an avi container and then mux into an mkv container afterwards. Not really the way you would normally do it but it would work.

I haven't had much luck with Avidemux at all. H264 isn't meant to be edited but used as the end result. it is very tricky to edit and you need to go as slow as possible to find your cut points and avoid jumping back and forth.

“key frames” ; I'm familiar with the term and general concept, but guess I need to study up on it a bit more.

High compression video codecs get most of their compression by not repeating parts of the picture that don't change from frame to frame. A keyframe (aka I frame) is encoded much like a JPG picture. Everything needed to reconstruct that frame is included in the compressed data for that frame. Other frames (forward Predicted, P, or Backward predicted, B) only contain the changes relative to prior and/or later frames. That is, they say something like "this frame is the same as the previous frame, except for the following changes..." or "this frame is the same as the next frame, except for the following changes..." An I frame and all its associated B and P frames are called a GOP (Group Of Pictures).

If you remove the I frame from a GOP there is no way to reconstructed the remaining frames. So many editors only allow cuts on I frames. Other editors allow cutting on any frame but will reencode the entire video -- losing quality over the entire video. "Smart" editors allow cutting on any frame but only reencode the cut GOPs, only the cut GOPs lose quality.

Smart editing may not sound so difficult but it's complicated by several factors. First, the editor has to have the ability to decompress and compress with the codec used (that may mean paying royalties to MPEG LA, or whoever). The order in which frames are stored in the file may be different than the order they are to be displayed -- so locating the right frame is more complicated than just seeking to frame N. Some codecs allow for "open GOPs" -- a few frames at the end of the GOP may reference the I frame in the next GOP. And since the frames are stored in decompression order, not presentation order, the data for those final B frames will appear after the I frame of the next GOP.

VideoReDo TV Suite is obviously the best choice if you can afford it. If you do a lot of TV captures or editing of mp4/mkv files it's worth the $100 price tag.

Nope, it is definitely not the best choice. Just perhaps the most known one. I believe I have tried almost every smart cutter available (VideoReDo included), and the one that is the clear winner is TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 4. Those guys got it right. Anyone who tries it for themselves will agree. It is paid software of course, but it is well worth its price.

I like Free Video Dub. You have to have the patience though cause it only makes one good cut at a time. If you try to do more at a time, it will crash (so will VideoReDo though if you try to do too much too quick)

I was going to give Free Video Dub a try, but I'm confused on the versions and the size(s) of the program. Here on Videohelp the newest version listed is 2.0.22 and the size of the download being 23.9MB
On the Free Video Dub website the newest version listed is 2.0.21.822 and the size of the download being 33.23MB

I'm guessing that the version numbers are just rounded up. And the size difference is the junk/crap included, if it isn't deselected and what not?

“key frames” ; I'm familiar with the term and general concept, but guess I need to study up on it a bit more.

High compression video codecs get most of their compression by not repeating parts of the picture that don't change from frame to frame. A keyframe (aka I frame) is encoded much like a JPG picture. Everything needed to reconstruct that frame is included in the compressed data for that frame. Other frames (forward Predicted, P, or Backward predicted, B) only contain the changes relative to prior and/or later frames. That is, they say something like "this frame is the same as the previous frame, except for the following changes..." or "this frame is the same as the next frame, except for the following changes..." An I frame and all its associated B and P frames are called a GOP (Group Of Pictures).

If you remove the I frame from a GOP there is no way to reconstructed the remaining frames. So many editors only allow cuts on I frames. Other editors allow cutting on any frame but will reencode the entire video -- losing quality over the entire video. "Smart" editors allow cutting on any frame but only reencode the cut GOPs, only the cut GOPs lose quality.

Smart editing may not sound so difficult but it's complicated by several factors. First, the editor has to have the ability to decompress and compress with the codec used (that may mean paying royalties to MPEG LA, or whoever). The order in which frames are stored in the file may be different than the order they are to be displayed -- so locating the right frame is more complicated than just seeking to frame N. Some codecs allow for "open GOPs" -- a few frames at the end of the GOP may reference the I frame in the next GOP. And since the frames are stored in decompression order, not presentation order, the data for those final B frames will appear after the I frame of the next GOP.

This did the trick for me ... thanks a millions for your explanation, I understood it perfectly and it makes a lot of sense. I wonder, then, if you have enough experience with a variety of apps to be able to recommend only from the pool of "smart" editors like you describe, complications notwithstanding; maybe your pick from amongst the free ones (are there even any?) as well as your pick among pay apps (up to, say, $100).

I wonder, then, if you have enough experience with a variety of apps to be able to recommend only from the pool of "smart" editors like you describe, complications notwithstanding; maybe your pick from amongst the free ones (are there even any?) as well as your pick among pay apps (up to, say, $100).

Sorry, there was some time between my last post and the one before . TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 4, huh… I'll take a look, sounds promising, thanks a million ‘smrpix’.

It depends on what you are editing. In my opinion, VideoReDo TV Suite h.264 can't be beat for editing clear QAM and over-the-air TV captures. It can deal with transmission errors better than any other editor I know of, as well as do frame-accurate cuts with smart encoding. It is also recommended for editing the oddball capture files made by any of the Hauppage HD-PVR series capture devices.

I tried one of the TMPGEnc products with a frame-accurate editor before buying VideoReDo and it did not deal well with my less than perfect TV captures, although it was very good otherwise.

Dude... are you familiar with another software, also from TMPGEnc, called Video Mastering Works 5, in lieu of Smart Renderer 4? It too does conversions.

Video Mastering Works doesn't have smart rendering. It's an encoder and converter. I have Smart Render and Mastering Works. Both good, but different animals. I believe dhawald3 is looking for smart rendering.

They are both excellent. At the time I bought it, TMPGenc Smart Renderer handled more source codecs. I believe VideoRedo has updated since then. I also like the TMPGenc editing interface a little better, though finding the option to cut in/out orange/blue was not as obvious. TMPGenc also seems to be a bit stricter in its output compatibility -- which is good. VideoRedo may have superior subtitle handling at this point.

@GuccizBud I'm also a fan of TVMW5 (it's part of the reason I have confidence in the TSR4 engine) but it does NOT smart render. It's also getting a bit long in the tooth on supporting newer pro formats. There was a recent upgrade, but it's probably due for a major revision.