My dogs are little shits. They're loud, whiny, they cry/bark whenever I leave them, one of them is extremely aggressive towards other dogs (even though he's tiny, littleman syndrome I guess), they dont come when I call them, they'll eat your food and poop on your rope. Not everyone has unrealistic views of their dogs.

Part of the reason why I'm very glad that dogs aren't allowed up LCC. I never have to deal with it.

Nah, any pack of chufftastics noobtards takes the cake for tardo behavior any day. Think about this: without the dogs, who would eat our shit? Can you imagine the impact of our shit and toilet paper without dogs around to scarf that shit down? They need an access fund sponsorship! Your anger will dissipate when they lovingly kiss their owners face. I would rather see a dog shit than a human shit any day, at least they don't use toilet paper!

Still, if we could just get rid of the humans, the dogs would soon follow, and that would be a good thing.

Everywhere? Do you bring him to work? To restaurants? Up a multipitch? To a friend's house that doesn't care for dogs (I'll answer this one for you; no, unless you're a really inconsiderate friend)? If you have a dog, you have undoubtedly encountered a situation that is not pet-friendly so your "I bring him everywhere" argument carries zero weight.

S.Stelli wrote:

It seems there is always a caveat to having or not having a dog with you at the crag. If you love your dog, do what is healthy for the dog. If it is a good crag dog, take him to the crag. If he is a shitty crag dog leave him at home. If you think he is annoying someone then he probably is.

This is on the right track, but requires some clarification. Not only do you have to objectively (difficult for the owner of the dog to be) assess your dogs behavior, but there is another, much more important analysis required when wondering, "Should I bring my dog to the crag?" How about considering the area where you will be climbing. I came from VT. 9 out 10 times, I went to crags where I was 100% sure my belay partner and I would be the only 2 people there. In these cases, I always brought my dog. We were deep in the woods, far removed from others and private property, and, at the most basic level, my dog is well-behaved, i.e. silent, friendly, etc.

However, I have since moved to Boulder. Now, I have to go to great lengths to find solitude at the crag. Further, the approaches often require rock scrambling, boulder-hopping, Class fivin', and/or tyroleans. In addition, the frequency of encountering other people at the crag is reversed from what it was in VT; that is I almost ALWAYS see others at the crag. Unless I know I'm heading to a particularly remote crag, the dog stays home.

The reasons not to bring your dog far outweigh the reasons to bring him. Rock fall, other unfriendly dogs, difficult terrain for dogs to negotiate, interfering with others climbers experience (who may not like dogs regardless of how great your particular dog is), environmental harm, barking, peeing, crapping, national park restrictions, etc.

Again, I have a dog and I understand that situations arise where the dog has to come. If I take a two-week roadtrip, of course I'm going to bring the dog but it's not ideal. As a result, if you either choose to or feel an obligation to bring your dog to the crag, you must assume complete responsibility for it. The dog is not at fault for its wrongdoings, you are. Act like the dog is you and if it's doing something that is making someone else uncomfortable or interfering with their quiet enjoyment of the outdoors, consider it your doing. Don't simply dismiss it as, "Oh, he's just being a dog."

I love dogs but the whole "my dog is great so I let him do whatever" argument is garbage. Firstly, your dog is great to YOU, but not for everyone at the crag. This is a subjective question, but most dog owners phrase it incorrectly. The question is not, "Do I have a dog that is well-behaved enough to bring to the crag?" (Although someone earlier did point out that they thought they owned a poorly behaved dog and chose not to bring him) The question is, "Will EVERYONE else at the crag feel that my dog is well-behaved enough to not interfere with their climbing?"

Since climbing is a human activity, bringing your dog to the crag is a privilege and not a right. For reference, driving is PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. In order to ensure that you continue to have the privilege, you act accordingly while driving by not driving recklessly, speeding excessively, etc. I think the vast majority of climbers like dogs as most of them are outdoor enthusiasts, what climbers don't like is other climbers acting like it is a right and their dog is everyone at the crag's responsibility. If you bring your dog to the crag, make sure nobody else has to even consider your dog otherwise, you're passing an unwanted burden onto someone else.

As someone else pointed out too, often climbing areas are pristine or fragile, so your dog is not only a potential hazard and annoyance to other climbers, it is potentially harmful to the environment. The point of this post isn't to say dogs should NEVER be at the crag. It's that too often, people don't ask all the necessary questions (or answer them honestly) before deciding to bring their dog. Things like, are their enough people in my party that I can devote enough time to supervise my dog effectively because there are alternative belayers/dogwatchers? Am I going to a fragile environment? Is my dog sufficiently well-behaved to not affect other climber's experience? Are their any objective hazards such as rockfall that might endanger my pet? Is the climb I'm doing single or multi pitch? Does the approach require anything that might be particularly difficult with a dog? Will the weather be too hot/too cold? A million other questions depending on the specific circumstances of that day...

The point is if you are objective in asking these questions, 9 times out of 10, you'll see the answer is to NOT bring the dog. That doesn't mean NEVER, it just means ALWAYS is definitely not the right answer (and even if you own Lassie, most of the time is probably the wrong answer too) to the question, "Should I bring my dog to the crag?"

Hey birdman, less analyzing what everyone else is doing and more climbing. And yes, I bring my dog to work, and if he can't come inside somewhere with me, he patiently chills and waits. And by the way, he's not chewing on a live plant. Dogs hate green plants. He's also laying in the middle of the approach "trail." Bad owners suck I agree, but picking apart all people that have the audacity to bring their best friends to YOUR crags is weak, weak sauce.

Hey birdman, less analyzing what everyone else is doing and more climbing. And yes, I bring my dog to work, and if he can't come inside somewhere with me, he patiently chills and waits. And by the way, he's not chewing on a live plant. Dogs hate green plants. He's also laying in the middle of the approach "trail." Bad owners suck I agree, but picking apart all people that have the audacity to bring their best friends to YOUR crags is weak, weak sauce.

Idk my dogs eat green plants all the freaking time "both of them" so there goes that theory! Just did it both of em on their morning walk.

Had 4 dogs at the crag this past weekend. All tied to trees and all unhappy about it. One old boy that looked sad and bored, one hyper whiny dog that clearly was trying to communicate something to its owner or owners. All the while this dog owners yelled at the dog all day and made comments like "shut up before i make a pair of boots outa you" or "dam dog shut the F up you are so annoying".

One of these dogs got untied after the other dogs left for the day and it then proceeded to nearly knock me off the climb i was getting started up the bottom of more than once. If that was not enough he was also getting all tangled in my rope and plotting taking a piss on it. All the while the owners barely do shit about it other than yell "hey so and so get outa there". As if the dog listened to them, this dod clearly was not taught to listen to anything but yelled into submission at best?

Add to this we were at a state park that does not even allow dogs. One in a million dog owners have a dog that really is so well behaved it does not bother anyone if left unleashed or tied to a tree all dam day. One in a million dog owners actually view how their dog is impacting others accurately. 99% of dog owners clearly feel if their dog bothers you you are a dog hating A Hole and the problem not their dog!!

Climbing is my number one passion, but out of the various sports I do, climbers annoy me the most, and the reason for that is they always find something to bitch about. Whether its about "gym rats" or "noobs" are climbing outside, or people playing some music while they climb, or peoples dogs at the crag, peoples camp fires are too large, those guys climb harder then me...it just goes on and on and on. Just shut up, in a world where we are reaching a population of 10 billion, there are gonna be things that annoy us, if you don't like it, stay inside.

Totally bro! People are always complaining about stuff! Like complaining about other people complaining online!

However just the two dogs i own i can tell make people uncomfortable plainly just being alive. I can tell they feel i am making my pleasure there problem in a roundabout way even though my dogs have not been off a leash in over two years and are trained to voice commands on the first command. I have Pit Bull and American Bully and just the sight of them for some is very very inconvenient. Do i think these people are retarded A Holes and ridiculous "yes" but they also feel the way they feel and entitled to their opinion as i am to own my dogs.

So much of it comes down to a matter of perspective and what is and what is not ecceptible to a person. Some people are just made uncomfortable, annoyed or just plain scared of dogs and even the most well behaved dog would ruin a good time for them.

Cant really blame em, maybe they got attacked by a dog when they where a kid. Or maybe their neighbor has a dog that whines and cries all day and night and the last thing they go to the crag to do is listen to a dog tied to a tree cry?

I don't like being told what to do a as much as the next guy but i also do not like it when i am forced to deal with something because some inconsiderate A Hole decides for me it too Fucking bad!!

However just the two dogs i own i can tell make people uncomfortable plainly just being alive. I can tell they feel i am making my pleasure there problem in a roundabout way even though my dogs have not been off a leash in over two years and are trained to voice commands on the first command. I have Pit Bull and American Bully and just the sight of them for some is very very inconvenient.

Precisely! I have two dogs. One is a belligerent Boxer bitch. The other is the most docile and chill Pit you'll ever run into. But, being aware that his mere presence makes some uneasy, I no longer bring him to any crag (I have never taken the Boxer; she's not trustworthy). Some people just aren't dog people period. I don't ever want to be the guy that caused an avoidable distraction or discomfort for anyone there, whether it's rational or not. I consider even those that may not be worth considering because it's how I think people should be.

If you want to bring your dog, and it's well behaved, fine. If you want to bring your dog, and it's well behaved, and you keep him tied all day, I'm not going to be the guy that tells you that you're inhumane. I probably won't start a verbal conflict if the opposite happens either. You could probably expect me to pack up my shit and go and give you a dirty look though. I think it's warranted.

What I don't like are the super holier than thou PETA people that assume that because you are a dog owner and don't take it everywhere, that you're keeping it locked up in a crate all day and then proceed to deride you for it. Sometimes, however, it's one or the other. If I have a chance to go on a spontaneous day trip, and I have no one to watch my pups, they're getting fed, watered, let out, and then crated with a couple toys and a rawhide for a few hours. Sue me. It's better than being the asshole that brings an aggressive and defensive mutt that wants to chew your ass alive every time you get ten feet away from said dick's gear pile which will most likely be in the middle of the goddamn trail to begin with. Sorry for the novel. Good post APBT.

Precisely! I have two dogs. One is a belligerent Boxer bitch. The other is the most docile and chill Pit you'll ever run into. But, being aware that his mere presence makes some uneasy, I no longer bring him to any crag (I have never taken the Boxer; she's not trustworthy). Some people just aren't dog people period. I don't ever want to be the guy that caused an avoidable distraction or discomfort for anyone there, whether it's rational or not. I consider even those that may not be worth considering because it's how I think people should be. If you want to bring your dog, and it's well behaved, fine. If you want to bring your dog, and it's well behaved, and you keep him tied all day, I'm not going to be the guy that tells you that you're inhumane. I probably won't start a verbal conflict if the opposite happens either. You could probably expect me to pack up my shit and go and give you a dirty look though. I think it's warranted. What I don't like are the super holier than thou PETA people that assume that because you are a dog owner and don't take it everywhere, that you're keeping it locked up in a crate all day and then proceed to deride you for it. Sometimes, however, it's one or the other. If I have a chance to go on a spontaneous day trip, and I have no one to watch my pups, they're getting fed, watered, let out, and then crated with a couple toys and a rawhide for a few hours. Sue me. It's better than being the asshole that brings an aggressive and defensive mutt that wants to chew your ass alive every time you get ten feet away from said dick's gear pile which will most likely be in the middle of the goddamn trail to begin with. Sorry for the novel. Good post APBT.

Holy Shit another like minded dog owner does exist. You are the 1% for real!!!

I am lucky if i plan well i always have a dog sitter. On the other hand even so both of my dogs are so powerful they are sanctioned to the house and pee and poop breaks out back one at a time. Even still i still feel bad leaving them. It's just one slip up "a squirrel a cat another dog" and you got a 65 and 75 lb ball of muscle to contend with. Not good if you are a 100 55 year old woman. Even worse if you have both of them at the same time. They listen 100% of the time except when it comes to other animals.

I had them crate trained as pups. Never should had let that one go. I bet i could retrain em to the crate fairly easy as they are easy as shit to train as they just want to please. Although not a PITA sap i just do not have the heat to do it at this age. If i ever have it to do again though i will crate train and stick to it. They love that fucking crate once they accept it.

I suppose i will also stick to smaller less threatening breeds as it really does limit you as a dog owner. Any dog can but a pit bull is a guarantee. I will have a whole pack of Pit Bulls when i am a old man and quarantined to the house 24/7 and my dogs can be my sole existence.

Hey birdman, less analyzing what everyone else is doing and more climbing. And yes, I bring my dog to work, and if he can't come inside somewhere with me, he patiently chills and waits. And by the way, he's not chewing on a live plant. Dogs hate green plants. He's also laying in the middle of the approach "trail." Bad owners suck I agree, but picking apart all people that have the audacity to bring their best friends to YOUR crags is weak, weak sauce.

So, let me get this straight. Your counter-argument consists of pointing out that a claim I never made is weak, weak sauce. Not once in my post did I refer to crags as mine. In fact, I did just the opposite and referred to them as everyone's, hence when everyone at the crag does not like your dog (even one person) you are being inconsiderate by having your dog there.

Finally, you actually make my point when you said, "If he can't come inside with me, he patiently waits and chills." So apparently, it's not so cruel and inhumane to not take your dog EVERYWHERE with you. As you stated, when the situation is not conducive to a dog, you leave him behind. Now you just have to understand that your subjective opinion of how great of a dog you have is irrelevant. It's whether every other individual at the crag agrees that your dog is great and 99.9% of the time, I bet that isn't the case.

However just the two dogs i own i can tell make people uncomfortable plainly just being alive. I can tell they feel i am making my pleasure there problem in a roundabout way even though my dogs have not been off a leash in over two years and are trained to voice commands on the first command. I have Pit Bull and American Bully and just the sight of them for some is very very inconvenient.

The problem is strangers don't know if your dog is one of the maybe 30% that are well behaved. We have all heard the "it is so well behaved, I have never seen it do that!" story too many times.

I enjoy a good crag dog, I guess primarily that means if I ignore it, it ignores me. When I walk by on the trail it doesn't run over for attention. When I eat a sandwich, it doesn't run over and try to grab a bite. No excessive barking. Etc. Plenty of dogs are like that.

The problem is your dog is in the minority. Just walking along the Cactus Cliff trail on a weekend is like an aggro petting zoo from hell.

Paintball Guns. The human gets it first, then the pup if it won't chill.

You're retarded.

There was this beautiful Golden Retriever at the bottom of Surrealistic Pillar at Lover's Leap, just sitting, he'd look around, wag his tail, had his tongue hanging out. Never barked, just chilled. I guess his people were climbing. A couple minutes later we hear a whistle and he sprints around the side of the crag to the top.

Paintball Guns. The human gets it first, then the pup if it won't chill.

You're retarded.

There was this beautiful Golden Retriever at the bottom of Surrealistic Pillar at Lover's Leap, just sitting, he'd look around, wag his tail, had his tongue hanging out. Never barked, just chilled. I guess his people were climbing. A couple minutes later we hear a whistle and he sprints around the side of the crag to the top.