Okay, Serious Question For Vegetarians...?

One of the offshoots of miss.nomer has been posting about vegetarians not really caring about the animals because they still eat eggs and dairy. People get really pissed off, but no one ever addresses that question. I'm sure my fellow vegans are also curious as to why vegetarians who become vegetarian for... show more One of the offshoots of miss.nomer has been posting about vegetarians not really caring about the animals because they still eat eggs and dairy. People get really pissed off, but no one ever addresses that question. I'm sure my fellow vegans are also curious as to why vegetarians who become vegetarian for ethical reasons still continue to contribute to the terrible conditions and animal abuse when it comes to eggs/dairy.

I'm not here to judge, I'm not here to argue. I'm just here to ask and am hoping for serious, thought-out replies. Thanks and namaste.

Update: KELLY B: I know first-hand that vegetarianism doesn't have to be a pit-stop on the way to veganism...I quit cold turkey (or would that be cold banana?) in one night.

Also, wouldn't confining cows/chickens in cramped, unsanitary conditions while taking their children be "obvious cruelty"?

Update 2: RAWR RYAN RAWR: Unlike all the other answers here, you're actually trying to justify your love for dairy. You are aware that the animals suffer greatly, and that the dairy industry directly contributes to the veal industry, right?

Update 3: To let you know, I haven't given a thumbs down and will only do that for members who are trolling.

Also, let me reiterate that questioning motives isn't the same as talking down to someone. I thought I made that clear, but one answer has me wanting to repeat this.

Update 4: KELLY B: ...that was an attack? I responded to a couple things you said, and that was an attack? Can we all please try to just address the issue without getting butthurt? Thanks.

Update 5: MISS.NOMER GOES DISNEY: I believe the user you're thinking of is something like MOOVE OVER BOTTOM CONTRIBUTOR!! or some such moniker.

Update 6: TRANSISTOR SECT: Interesting answer, to say the least. I did want to touch on this: "Passing up on a veggie burger that contains egg whites for a plain salad or baked potatoe does nothing to show that there is a market for vegetarians/vegans."
That's correct. So do neither and call the company and... show more TRANSISTOR SECT: Interesting answer, to say the least. I did want to touch on this: "Passing up on a veggie burger that contains egg whites for a plain salad or baked potatoe does nothing to show that there is a market for vegetarians/vegans."

That's correct. So do neither and call the company and ask that they switch to a vegan veggie burger if they want your business. A local hamburger chain did just that after one of my vegan buddies kept writing letters. If you really want to make an impact in "the long run" as you kept mentioning, you'll need to do more than just passing on the meat. That's why veg*nism and activism go hand-in-hand :)

Also, I work 3 jobs and am vegan and find no problem being vegan in an omnivore's world. I think that's just a cop-out to give up like that if you really feel conflicted.

Update 7: BRIACASS: Thanks, I knew to expect some "OMG SHUT UP" answers...at least they're written out instead of just "OMG SHUT UP."
Now, you mentioned that you're aware of how bad the dairy industry is...so how do you justify cheese? To me, that's like saying, "It's really... show more BRIACASS: Thanks, I knew to expect some "OMG SHUT UP" answers...at least they're written out instead of just "OMG SHUT UP."

Now, you mentioned that you're aware of how bad the dairy industry is...so how do you justify cheese? To me, that's like saying, "It's really terrible and cruel what they do to the animals...but damn, cheese is just so good, it's worth what they have to go through so I can eat it."

There are a huge variety of artisan vegan cheeses available, but it's usually by mail order. If you're a true cheese fan, like me, then that is probably right up your alley. I always paid extra to get the "good" cheese because I love matured flavors...switching that to vegan delicacy cheese was easy for me. Maybe give that a go?

Update 8: I find it interesting that, in justifying dairy/egg consumption from non-kind sources, some are comparing veganism to things like giving away all your money to charity instead of just donating some. Why do some think that veganism is OMG EXTREEEEME TO THE MAX instead of just "vegetarian, minus the eggs, dairy,... show more I find it interesting that, in justifying dairy/egg consumption from non-kind sources, some are comparing veganism to things like giving away all your money to charity instead of just donating some. Why do some think that veganism is OMG EXTREEEEME TO THE MAX instead of just "vegetarian, minus the eggs, dairy, honey, and animal products"?

Update 9: DESPERATE4YANSWERS: "Eating eggs and dairy is fine as it does not cause any hurt or does not kill an animal. "
Actually, it does. Not only are the animals raised in terrible, unsanitary, inhumane conditions, but the dairy industry contributes directly to the veal industry, and millions of baby male... show more DESPERATE4YANSWERS: "Eating eggs and dairy is fine as it does not cause any hurt or does not kill an animal. "

Actually, it does. Not only are the animals raised in terrible, unsanitary, inhumane conditions, but the dairy industry contributes directly to the veal industry, and millions of baby male chickens are killed as part of the egg industry.

Update 10: Oh, and there are people who are into bodybuilding as vegetarians and vegans. I'm vegan and into bodybuilding...check out veganbodybuilding.com

Update 11: BRIACASS: "Would you care to give examples of places i could order vegan cheeses?"
There are many places online that you can purchase from, and simply asking your local groceries to carry them usually ends up in your local groceries carrying them.
I don't see what the OMG HUGE DEAL about cheese... show more BRIACASS: "Would you care to give examples of places i could order vegan cheeses?"
There are many places online that you can purchase from, and simply asking your local groceries to carry them usually ends up in your local groceries carrying them.

I don't see what the OMG HUGE DEAL about cheese is anyway. It's good, I'll get it when I can, but I don't have to live with the stuff. I cook well enough that I don't need the help.

Update 12: HEAVEN: "So by your logic and way of thinking, if I can't save all the animals in the world, it is pointless to save any? That doesn't make sense."
Of course it doesn't make any sense...I never said or implied that at all. This knee-jerk reaction is what happens when people encounter... show more HEAVEN: "So by your logic and way of thinking, if I can't save all the animals in the world, it is pointless to save any? That doesn't make sense."

Of course it doesn't make any sense...I never said or implied that at all. This knee-jerk reaction is what happens when people encounter cognitive dissonance. All I was asking is why people who go vegetarian "for the animals" don't go vegan instead.

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I know you asked vegetarians, but I think I could answer from the perspective of having been "there" before.

I went vegetarian first in 2002. I was horrified to find out about the animal cruelty and I vowed to never *eat* meat again. I still enjoyed my cheese , honey, yogurt, cream cheese, etc. Why did I not go vegan? I was ignorant to what happened in the dairy industry. I only knew about the slaughtering process and the way "food" animals were treated. Had no idea about the others.
Had I done just a little bit of research, I would have easily found out about the other crimes. I honestly thought I was doing enough. That is - until the green drape was pulled back and I saw the greedy food processing industries for what they are. I could no longer ignore the corporations behind the curtain.
I'd say that ignorance was my main reason that I didn't go vegan sooner. I progressed and became a strict vegetarian by eliminating the remaining animal products one at a time.

So by your logic and way of thinking, if I can't save all the animals in the world, it is pointless to save any? That doesn't make sense. I do what I can that is practical for me to help eliminate most animal suffering. I don't use dairy products, except rennet less cheese, and ice cream every once in a while. I don't eat eggs either. Vegetarianism/Veganism is not about being perfect (at least it isn't for me) it is about each person doing what they can. I ate meat for 20 years before I went Vegetarian, I think that is pretty good I was able to get this far. Eventually when I am ready, I will go Vegan, but until then, no one is going to force me (and yes, I do know what goes on in the dairy and egg industries, it is horrible).

First of all, chickens are in no way hardy. Seriously, chickens would never survive without us. Cows and pigs, though, could. They do have close cousins that do, after all. Okay, think about it this way; are people becoming vegetarians by the billions every day? No. Hundreds, sometimes, but thats no biggie on a world scale. With every new vegetarian comes less breeding for meat. So, if ten cows are killed one week for 10 meat eaters, but than one of them decides to becoming a vegetarian, they will only kill 9 cows next week when they see that piece of meat wasn't bought fast enough. Eventually, they'll only impregnate that number of cows for beef and slowly there will be less cows. So, by the time the world has enough vegetarians and vegans to even make this an issue, there wouldn't be as many cows. The few remaining cows would be pets used for company, cart pulling, and fertilizer. Hope that answers your question :)

Well,it's a lot easier to be vegetarian in this meat eating world.I'm aware of the cruelty invovled in the dairy/egg industries,which is why I eat almost a completely vegan diet at home(I know there is no such thing as a semi-vegan),I don't wear leather since it is responsible for half of the meat industries profits,I don't buy products that are tested on animals or that contain animal products,I don't buy milk or eggs from the store because they only support these industries,the only animal products I consume/buy are the occasional egg and dairy.I only eat eggs and dairy that are contained in vegetarian food companies (Amy's.Morningstar.etc.) or at restaurants and I have no issue with that.Sure,it may support the egg and dairy industries in the short term,but supporting the vegetarian options offered actually shows that there is a market for this stuff.Passing up on a veggie burger that contains egg whites for a plain salad or baked potatoe does nothing to show that there is a market for vegetarians/vegans.As a lacto ovo vegetarian I may be supporting the egg and dairy industries,but in the long term it does help a lot...and you really do have to think about this stuff long term...social changes take a long time.The world won't go veg overnight.If enough people did go veg the egg and dairy industries would fail without the meat industry to buy spent dairy calves and unwanted males.In the long term it is a lot easier to maintain a lacto ovo vegetarian diet than a completely vegan diet...being lacto ovo for 30 years is a lot better than being vegan for 3.You have to think about reducing your demand for animal products in the long term...which is more important than personal purity.Vegetarians are an important part of the animal rights/welfare cause...we're not half-*ssed vegans.

I can speak as a former lacto-vegetarian, now vegan. For me, it was mostly ignorance about how cows and chickens are used for milk and eggs-- and how much killing and is still involved in the dairy and egg industries, as well as the unnatural conditions under which these animals are produced and exploited. I see a lot of that same ignorance here when people say "chickens aren't killed to make eggs," or "cows aren't killed" type statements. Maybe people don't want to believe it. Ethical vegetarians should definitely look into it further. The cow's genome has now been fully mapped with a purpose in mind. Once again, faster than ever before, cattle will be exploited and genetically manipulated to produce more unnatural and unhealthy amounts of milk, more meat, and used for medical experimentation. It's time to go vegan!

Second, I was always scared to death I wasn't going to get enough nutrition, because you always hear that from people. Then you realize that the people who are saying that have no education in nutrition whatsoever. It's their personal opinion. The experts say it's fine, and I've been a healthy vegan for a very long time now. We've been conditioned by the industry for years and years to believe that we need to attach ourselves to the teats of a mother cow for nutrition. One day you wake up and realize how ridiculous that is. We don't even drink our own mothers' milk when we're adults.

Third, laziness. It's a chore to look at every label, and re-learn how to cook some meals. But it's not as hard as it seems, and you don't have to be perfect all the time. You do the best you know how to do, and it's always easy to buy fruits, vegetables, beans, grains, nuts and seeds without having to read labels. If you don't want to call yourself vegan, that's fine. You can just say you're a strict vegetarian.

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I know many a vegetarians who don't eat egg apart from other meat and stuff.

I had been a voracious non - vegetarian once, and I use to advertise to my friends to eat meat to gain muscle and strength. But, after a point of time, my conscience simply did not allow me to eat non-veg stuff. I have been a successful vegetarian from some 9 months or so, and proud of that!!

Go green! In this age of global warming and stuff, it makes me proud to call myself a veggie! ;)
Regarding eggs, I simply avoid it. I do have it at times when it is inevitable, like when someone prepares the dish for you.

Eating eggs and dairy is fine as it does not cause any hurt or does not kill an animal. Every creature coming into this world has emotions. Love, lust, hurt and pain. Eating eggs or diary do not cause any harm to animal.

The way chickens reproduce, it would make good sense to eat eggs, but sorry no chickens. At least, I won't look for that. Why hurt any of the Creator's or God's creation when it doesn't harm us?

And ye, I liked the 'Namaste' part! Being from India that was special for me. ;)
And is the back of some person (I suppose a woman) shown in the pic for real or is it somethign else? I'm a veggie and into bodybuilding, would be more than glad to meet anyone like this. But, I am honestly not finding any such combination of a veggie and bbing!

I would consider myself a vegetarian, not a vegan. Living in a small town, my options for vegan foods are low. Fresh veggies are hard enough to get. I do use replacements like rice milk and nayonaisse, I don't eat chocolate, really the only thing i find hard is a cheese sunstitue, vegan cheese sucks, and as wrong as it is, cheese is something I want in my diet. I am aware that i do not need it, and maybe in the future I'll cut it out all together. My guess is a lot of vegetarians aren't educated enough about how dairy cows are treated. Or how it does contribute to the veal industry. Maybe they feel less guilty as long as they themselves are not directly eating the meat. Or maybe they just do not have the wilpower that you have, the ability to cut cold turkey over night,
I hope I helped some,
I know you're getting a lot of defensive, harsh, rude asnwers.

EDIT:
Would you care to give examples of places i could order vegan cheeses?
I live in a smaller comunity, and i's harder to find here.
I'm up for any suggestions.
and i'm definately not justifying my love for cheese as a valid excuse to disregaurd the animals lives, and the torture they endure.
Thanks for the suggestion, and if you could provide examples i'd be thrilled!

I have been vegetarian for three months now, and i made a choice to stop eating meat. However as part of the drastic change in diet, i have continued to eat dairy products while my body is adjusting to the new diet and foods.

I have cut down dramatically the dairy products i eat and have always strayed away from animal by products such as leather.

I believe i am in a half way house, half way vegan, i am educating myself to do this the sensible and safe way.

When i became vegan i will not disrespect vegetarians, in particular vegetarians who do not want to become vegan as surely any effort in supporting animal rights is a positive step?

I have felt prejudice and "elitism" from a small amount of people who have been vegan or vegetarian or longer than me, im here and im helping, im sorry if its to late. This is all new to me. Im trying.

A VERY SERIOUS ANSWER
YOu could look at vegetarianism as a stop over to vegan-ism. The first step of you will. To come from a family and cultural surrounding where not eating meat is considered too weird to go cold turkey and give up eggs and dairy as well would have many parents reaching for the phone to get someone over here PRONTO and DRIIIIVE the demons from this child's body!!!

Ok....Vegetarianism is avoiding the OBVIOUS animal cruelty, vegan-ism happens when you look a little deeper. But at the end of the day they are STILL saving animals lives and you can't save them all.
Leading them to vegan-ism will be impossible if after they have made the step from meat eater to veggie they are then attacked for eating dairy...baby steps guys ....baby steps.

EDIT :Whoa cowboy!! Why the attack!? Your preaching to the converted mate! You asked why people are vegetarians..I answered! Well done you for giving it all up in one go..not everyone is as educated or driven as you though...jeeze...

Oh and when I said obvious I meant lke the lump of flesh on your plate from the dead animal, not the egg from the still ive chicken or milk from the still ive cow...it takes some people a while to understand that dairy and eggs are just as cruel as meat. I don't appreciate being attacked.

It's a good question. People who are vegetarian for ethical reasons should and probably do know the very good ethical reasons for being vegan. I guess that people (like me) sometimes feel that they are doing what they can for the moment, and that this is a positive thing. Sort of like giving some of your money to a charity that means a lot to you, but stopping short of giving all or most of your money, even if you know it will be put to good use! Saving some back for a pint or a meal or whatever. Or rent! Many people contribute in many different ways, and just as I have known vegans who talk the talk but in practice do a lot of harm to the earth and its inhabitants in countless other ways (including by neglecting their pets!), I have known a number of non-vegan, non-vegetarian people who have made huge positive differences in other ways to the lives of many animals (years of hard, unpaid work at shelters or animals charities, for example...). Nobody can be totally 'pure' or totally ethical - being vegan is definitely admirable but it is not the end-all and be-all of ethical ways of being. One could focus on different things, and make very different sacrifices.

Source(s): Many years as a vegetarian, having struggled with veganism. Experience of people in animal welfare communities worldwide.