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Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Many were expected this to happen soon enough. About damn time this happens. The only thing Cuba exports now is doctors. Another step in the right direction to repairing this relationship between our two countries. [/FONT][/COLOR]

"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Originally Posted by Fearandloathing

I am not saying they are mistaken, only that the US hasn't a leg to stand on to demand anything of Cuba. America needs to deal with the cancer that is Gitmo and then can offer suggestions to other nations. Demands don't work anymore.

"the cancer that is Gitmo"

I've long held that Gitmo is an imperfect solution for an imperfect world, and is the best of available options for these enemy combatants, which, if I recall, was a term that had to be created to best describe the ardent Militant Islamic Fundamentalists which are being held there.

What would be the better solution that you'd propose?

We know that just turning these detainees lose isn't the best, as there's a recidivism rate of around 30% or more (returning to the battle field to kill some more)

We know that turning these detainees over to their country of origin isn't an option, as these countries don't want them and / or can't reliable incarcerate them (end up returning to the fight).

We know that turning these detainees over to the the country that they were apprehended in isn't an option, as these countries don't want them and / or can't reliable incarcerate them (end up returning to the fight).

We know that turning them over to CIA black sites isn't an option, as this comes with a wealth of legally questionable and morally questionable issues.

We know that trying them in US criminal courts isn't a realistic or viable option due to cost, time, resources required, and it just turns into a show trial with the usual media conflagration, and is probably inappropriate for the situation, being more a military matter rather than a criminal matter, and why should the US tax payer be burdened with the expense of keeping them in such federal facilities? And to top that off, why would we want these radicals to spread their radicalism throughout the US prison population? Essentially infecting those that they are responsible with an even greater anti social and dangerous ideas?

So what do you propose? What's your solution for Gitmo?

I still see Gitmo as an imperfect solution for an imperfect world, and is the best of available options for these enemy combatants.

Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Originally Posted by MMC

Oh and what do you think.....the Castros were doing all they could to make sure that the good people of Cuba were able to live their lives with Liberty and Freedom? That the Castros were doing all they could to improve the Cuban Peoples lives, Right?

From the CIA website:

Literacy rate:

efinition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 99.8%
male: 99.8%
female: 99.8% (2012 est.)

That's the highest in the Caribbean.

Cubans also are entitled to free universal health care.

But let's face it, the only reason the right-wing doesn't want to normalize relations is because Obama is doing it. The embargo against Cuba has been counterproductive in achieving a more fair and democratic government. Without the embargo, American consumers will have access to Cuban agricultural products and be able to travel there. With extra income, Cubans will desire a free-market economy.

"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

efinition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 99.8%
male: 99.8%
female: 99.8% (2012 est.)

That's the highest in the Caribbean.

Cubans also are entitled to free universal health care.

But let's face it, the only reason the right-wing doesn't want to normalize relations is because Obama is doing it. The embargo against Cuba has been counterproductive in achieving a more fair and democratic government. Without the embargo, American consumers will have access to Cuban agricultural products and be able to travel there. With extra income, Cubans will desire a free-market economy.

Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

efinition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 99.8%
male: 99.8%
female: 99.8% (2012 est.)

That's the highest in the Caribbean.

Cubans also are entitled to free universal health care.

But let's face it, the only reason the right-wing doesn't want to normalize relations is because Obama is doing it. The embargo against Cuba has been counterproductive in achieving a more fair and democratic government. Without the embargo, American consumers will have access to Cuban agricultural products and be able to travel there. With extra income, Cubans will desire a free-market economy.

Yeah sure.....those Democrats that all spoke out about it went and became Republicans, Right?

Reps. Chris Smith (R-4th Dist.) and Albio Sires (D-8th Dist.) have introduced legislation named for Foerster that would require the executive branch to tell Congress what the U.S. is doing to extradite fugitives from Cuba and other countries. “Rather than bringing the Cuban people closer to democracy and freedom, by capitulating to the Castro brothers, the administration allows them to strengthen their grip on the Cuban people," said Rep. Chris Smith (R-4th Dist.). "Whatever joy we feel at the release of Alan Gross is tempered by the sadness that our president is enabling tyranny.” And Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr. (D-9th Dist.) said he would "insist that any opening of relations comes side-by-side with an opening of the Cuban government's political system from totalitarianism to one that respects democracy, human rights, and personal freedoms.".....snip~

people are dirt poor and the communist regime only survives on capitalist tourist dollars and patron countries subsidizing it.

Cubans are paid less than $50 a month, it's survival all these years was due to the USSR subsidizing it, and it know to survive it must legalize private business, and private property, which it is slowly doing.

It's a failed communist state no matter how many doctores they produce and it runs at a net loss and in debt to it's patron countries.

Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Originally Posted by eohrnberger

"the cancer that is Gitmo"

I've long held that Gitmo is an imperfect solution for an imperfect world, and is the best of available options for these enemy combatants, which, if I recall, was a term that had to be created to best describe the ardent Militant Islamic Fundamentalists which are being held there.

What would be the better solution that you'd propose?

We know that just turning these detainees lose isn't the best, as there's a recidivism rate of around 30% or more (returning to the battle field to kill some more)

We know that turning these detainees over to their country of origin isn't an option, as these countries don't want them and / or can't reliable incarcerate them (end up returning to the fight).

We know that turning these detainees over to the the country that they were apprehended in isn't an option, as these countries don't want them and / or can't reliable incarcerate them (end up returning to the fight).

We know that turning them over to CIA black sites isn't an option, as this comes with a wealth of legally questionable and morally questionable issues.

We know that trying them in US criminal courts isn't a realistic or viable option due to cost, time, resources required, and it just turns into a show trial with the usual media conflagration, and is probably inappropriate for the situation, being more a military matter rather than a criminal matter, and why should the US tax payer be burdened with the expense of keeping them in such federal facilities? And to top that off, why would we want these radicals to spread their radicalism throughout the US prison population? Essentially infecting those that they are responsible with an even greater anti social and dangerous ideas?

So what do you propose? What's your solution for Gitmo?

I still see Gitmo as an imperfect solution for an imperfect world, and is the best of available options for these enemy combatants.

Congress still has 45 days to approve if Cuba can be taken off the list. For some reason many think this is just the Right, that doesn't want to see the Embargo lifted yet. Seems there several Democrats that are in on it too.

Washington (CNN)—The State Department has sent a recommendation to the White House that Cuba be removed from the State Sponsors of Terrorism List, paving the way for the White House to announce its intent to de-list Cuba as early as Thursday, two administration officials tell CNN.

In making the recommendation, the State Department has certified Cuba has not provided support to terrorist groups within the last 6 months. The White House has made clear it wanted to make the announcement before Obama attends the Summit of the Americas later this week with Cuban leader Raul Castro, and ordered the State Department to speed up the process.

Congress has 45 days from the announcement to vote to block the President's action with a vote on a joint resolution disapproving the de-listing......snip~

Re: Obama removes Cuba from state sponsor of terror list

Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und

people are dirt poor and the communist regime only survives on capitalist tourist dollars.

Cubans are paid less than $50 a month, it's survival all these years was due to the USSR subsidizing it, and it know to survive it must legalize private business, and private property, which it is slowly doing.

It's a failed communist state no matter how many doctores they produce and it runs at a net loss and in debt to it's patron countries.

Cubans receive cheap housing, transportation, healthcare, food subsidies.. They actually did survive after the "special period" (When the USSR collapsed") and certainly have to deal with constant pressure. Cuba's GDP has been fluctuating, and appears to be recovering. Yes, they may make less then $50 a month, which is deplorable, but it's hilarious to say Castro didn't care about his people.