The Friday DOCTOR WHO Dockback Is Battered And Bruised, But Still Alive...

There was a bit of drama surrounding yesterday's reveal of a trailer for the second wave of Season/Series Six episodes. This ended up requiring extra/unexpected time to work through. As a result, I haven't had the bandwidth to put the finishing touches on my originally planned piece...a look at "The Sun Makers" (Baker, Story #95) and "Marco Polo" (Hartnell, Story #4). Accordingly, I'm repurposing yesterday's initial post so that a Friday Docback opportunity remains in-place and solvent, albeit in an unintended form this week. I'll run 'The Sun Makers' and 'Marco Polo' write-ups next week. "The Sun Makers,'" in particular, I enjoyed tremendously.

I may updating this post with fresh tidbits throughout the day today, and even into the early evening, U.S. time - so be sure to check back as there's the possibility of more.

A NEW TRAILER FOR DOCTOR WHO SEASON/SERIES SIX, WAVE TWO

BBC has unveiled a new trailer for the second wave of DOCTOR WHO Season/Series Six episodes. This is different from the promo which debuted 'round Comic-Con. Check out the embed below- which originates HERE.

Interestingly, still no return/premiere date for the show on BBC? We recently learned that DOCTOR WHO will return to BBC America on August 27. Not too long in the grand scheme of things, but also an eternity.

BBC AMERICA COMMISSIONS THREE NEW 'BEST OF' SPECIALS

BBC America is counting down to Season/Series Six Wave Two with three new "Best Of..." specials.

DOCTOR WHO: BEST OF THE DOCTOR airs on August 13, DOCTOR WHO: BEST OF THE MONSTERS bows on 20 August, and DOCTOR WHO: BEST OF THE COMPANIONS will air August 27th - evidently succeeding BBCA's broadcast of 'Let's Kill Hitler' (the first in the newest batch of episodes).

The other, as I sat down to watch "The Sun Makers," my teenage son incredulously got up and left the room.

INCREDULOUS TEENAGE SON: Oh - you're watching him?

ME: Yes. Do you have a problem with that?

INCREDULOUS TEENAGE SON: I do. He's the brother I never wanted, and you talk about him all the time.

ME (working up the best shine in my eyes I could muster): That's because he's a Doctor.

INCREDULOUS TEENAGE SON: Whatever, Dad.

ME: You could be too, if you applied yourself. Sit down - get to know him.

And off he went to disappear into XBOX Live. I mention all of this in reference to the BBCA Specials. I fully understand that, in no way, shape, or form am I..."Dad"...cool enough to convince my son to watch DOCTOR WHO. However, Allison Haislip, who appears in at least one of the Specials? My son has a thing for Allison. And if she's into DOCTOR WHO, then...just maybe...WHO might finally be swayed towards giving it a try. I don't blame him, really. I mean, between the two of us, who would you find more convincing?

Been meaning to mention this for a few weeks now and it has continually slipped my mind. The image below speaks for itself - CLICK THE PIC for ordering information.

INTERESTING INSIGHT REGARDING THE DOCTOR WHO EXPERIENCE NOW IN LONDON

Posted below by Talkbacker V'Shael. Great timing on this as. At the moment, it looks like I'll be traveling to the U.K to partake in the DOCTOR WHO EXPERIENCE sometime in late November/early December and this stuff is cool to know. Thanks very much for sharing this, V'Shael.

Here's V'Shael's post...

I got to go to the Doctor Who experience the other week, while I was in London for a few days.

It seems that the exhibition is changing throughout its run.

For example, the Silents are modelled and feature in 4 places I could see, but those models only went up after the airing of the Impossible Astronaut, apparently.

And in the same way, they now have an Idris costume along with information card, etc... which I imagine only went up after the Doctors Wife episode had aired.

So, if any of you have been or are planning to go, just be aware that there may be new exhibits being added to the Experience, once new episodes have shown us some new things.

Some final quick points for those who may be attending or thinking about attending.

1) Bring a smart phone if you have one. They have their own wifi network, which interacts with the exhibits, and gives you the opportunity to get discounts in the store.

2) They say there's no photos allowed at the start, but that's actually not true. There's lots of places you can take photos. There will be specific sections where the ever-present staff say not to photograph, though.

3) If you're going as part of a group, you'll find it cheaper if you split in two. Anyone who buys a day ticket and goes through, can buy a "re-entry" ticket for 4 quid. Give that and the original ticket to your mate, and split the cost. You can both do the experience separately for a fraction of the cost.

4) The shop at the end is a bit of a rip off when it comes to DVDs and that. BUT they HAD ADIPOSE TOYS!!!

I wanted one ever since I saw the episode, as a stress reliever. Squeeze the little bastard and throw him about the room. Stretch him, whatever. He returns to his original shape in minutes. Fantastic little toy.

5) When you go into the building, you can go upstairs to the experience, turn right and go into the tea shop. No charge. From there, you can see the password for the wifi, and access the website with your smartphone, including discounts and all that. You can ALSO go from the tea-shop into the Doctor Who shop, use your discounts etc... You just can't go from the Doctor Who shop back into the experience. (Even if you have a ticket.)

So if you fancy seeing the shop, website, and buying some merchandise, you don't actually need to do the experience at all. Your smartphone will show you a bunch of the exhibits with excellent pieces of information for each.

The BBC (and ITV) still cling to an outmoded idea that has them treat their transmission dates like state secrets which are only reluctantly revealed only 14 days in advance (mostly for the benefit of the print edition TV listings magazines). Maybe this made sense in the 1970s but not in today's television world. The British must be stunned when American networks announce their fall schedule broadcast dates six months in advance. It would be unheard of in Britain.

There's slightly more to it than that, but the gist of what you're saying is true. I think we can all assume that the UK tx date will be the same as the US tx date, or possibly earlier? Wouldn't *that* be nice?

Just what can they mean? And with the completion of these episodes, we're ever closer to the big 5-0! Are you as excited as I am? No, of course you're not. Not yet anyway, but you will be eventually. Can't we all just agree to skip 2012 and jump right into 2013? Is that cheating? Bloody Laws of Time...

But the only real new footage from the last trailer is the pteradactyls and the mysterious pyramid from the teaser image that was released a couple of weeks ago (and is now my laptop background.)
That's okay, I don't want to get spoiled. The shows are only 45 minutes long, don't show me too much of them! But it's good to get some of that excitement brewing.
Alright, so we know the Silence has something to do with The Doctor's death and they're still around in 2011. The Doc knows he's going to die and we see him wearing the Stetson. I have no idea how they're going to get themselves out of this, it can't just be a ganger because they already kind of broached that, didn't they?
Time can be rewritten, did we see the Doctor die in an alternate timeline (maybe the one that's being changed in Let's Kill Hitler)? Then restoring the timeline means that he won't be killed, kinda like Doc Brown in Back to The Future.
With this coming back, Torchwood, and Breaking Bad on right now, this is my favorite summer for television in a long time.

2012 is very much needed. Skipping that year would be like skipping the training required to jump out of a plane. Nothing short of suicidal! Let me ask all you regular Docbackers this - would you settle for slightly less in 2012, if 2013 brought you so much goodness that it could possibly cause your heads to explode? Or would you all still be angry with a slight reduction next year? I equate it to having a smaller birthday present on the promise that you'll be opening the best Christmas present you've ever had further down the line. Just curious.

My analysis of the trailer :
Clip 1 : The Doctor running down a hotel corridor. (God Complex)
Clip 2 : Amy gets on the back of Rory's motor cycle and they drive away. (Someone on the ground?) This is the episode that features another Amy (ganger?)
Clip 3 : The Doctor dancing in a tuxedo, in a nazi room. Has he married River? (Let's Kill Hitler)
Clip 4 : 'My time is running out' The Doctor is talking to someone. The background looks like it's the hotel again. (God Complex)
Clip 5 : The Doctor in a hotel corridor with a crash zoom on to room number 11. This seems
to have some significance to the 11th incarnation. (God Complex)
Clip 6 : Up close view of the 11 on the door. (God Complex)
Clip 7 : Winston Churchill cocks a pistol. Could be at The Doctor. Could be in Let's Kill Hitler.
Clip 8 : Craig running through his house.
Clip 9 : Some sort of balding hairless mole man?
Clip 10 : Guy being pulled into some bright white light (by the Doctor, presumably)
Clip 11 : Madame Kovarian. 'And this is where it begins.'
Clip 12 : The Doctor in front of a Cyberman 'I'm going to die!'
Clip 13 : A blue eye opening in some unfamiliar face.
Clip 14 : A human-looking eye (The Doctors?) looking through a fish eye lens on a door. These are common in hotels, so I'm thinking again God Complex.'Something has happened to Time'
Clip 15 : Amy (looking older than normal) lifts up a visor. I suspect this is from 'The Girl Who Waited' and will involve Amy being left behind again by the Doctor and she waits years until he turns up and rescues her.
Clip 16 : Hitler thanking the TARDIS crew for saving him. 'Thank you'
Clip 17 : Our gang realising they may have inadvertantly screwed things up in a big way. 'I think you have just saved my life.'
Clip 18 : Craig next to the Doctor who is working on something behind Craigs back. 'Doctor are you going to kiss me?'
Clip 19 : The Doctor saying yes he's about to kiss Craig. 'Yes Craig, yes I am'
Clip 20 : Amy in an alien landscape. I suspect the one she'll be left behind on. Mountains in the distance, and strange foliage.
Clip 21 : A spaceship. 4 visible crewmen. Brown tunics.
Clip 22 : A Nazi building from the outside.
Clip 23 : The TARDIS crashing into an office. (Let's Kill Hitler)
Clip 24 : In the PYRAMID. River Song turns around to reveal the same eyepiece as Madam Kovarian.
Clip 25 : Skulls laid out in a row.
Clip 26 : The Silence, under water.
Clip 27 : A cyberman in the dark.
Clip 28 : Two Weeping Angels in a house or a room. I suspect the nightmares of the hotel in God Complex.
Clip 29 : White headed doll. What are little boys made of? Night Terrors.
Clip 30 : A ventrilquists dummy. God Complex
Clip 31 : A Wall-E white robot, with lazers in the face. The Girl Who Waited
Clip 32 : Some weird viking like head. Might be wearing the same armour as Old Amy. Might be wearing an eye patch like Madame Kovarian. Seems to have a hump. Is playing chess with marble pieces. The Girl Who Waited?
Clip 33 : Minotaur viewed through fish-eye lens. God Complex
Clip 34 : Door blowing apart from a violent blow. Can't make out what is coming through
Clip 35 : Minotaur coming through a glass door with Rory to the side. God Complex.
Clip 36 : The Doctor flying through a glass door, but appears to be in a house given the clothes horse. Craig episode?
Clip 37 : Three transmat beams deliver the crew of the spaceship in clip 21 into a wide empty chamber.
Clip 38 : Rory punches Hitler (Let's Kill Hitler)
Clip 39 : An older, more experienced Amy, fights the white robots of clip 31. (The Girl Who Waited)
Clip 40 : Bald mole man retreats inside a cupboard.
Clip 41 : Rory jumps around the white robots (The Girl Who Waited)
Clip 42 : Someone with a machine gun, kills a Silent.
Clip 43 : Someone transmats up. Maybe a crew member.
Clip 44 : The Doctor pulls a kid into the white light. (Night Terrors)
Clip 45 : Minotaur running through a hotel corridor. (God Complex)
Clip 46 : Explosion on the bridge of the spaceship from clip 21
Clip 47 : Cyberman heads explode.
Clip 48 : 4 Cybermen, some headless.
Clip 49 : The Doctor in the TARDIS, reading the details of his death on the Tardis scanner.
Clip 50 : Astronaut in the lake. 'An Impossible Astronaut will rise from the deep'
Clip 51 : Astronaut walking. 'And strike the Time Lord dead.'
Clip 52 : The Doctor backing away from the Astronaut slightly.
Clip 53 : The Doctor looking calm on the shore of Lake Silencio.
Clip 54 : The Astronaut shoots the Doctor.
Clip 55 : The Doctor in the TARDIS looking smug. 'Haven't you figured that one out yet?'

*** would you settle for slightly less in 2012, if 2013 brought you so much goodness that it could possibly cause your heads to explode? ***
PERSONALLY, if the overall payoff justifies the misery of waiting - I'm all for less now and more later. My strong sense of the matter, though, is that the "more later" would have to be something very, very amazing to keep the masses from going into full meltdown.
From my perspective, I'm sensing that DW has picked up a great deal of steam, momentum, and visibility lately...my biggest concern about a "less in 2012" scenario would be the danger of losing the gains the show has enjoyed in the recent year or so.

What I like about this story arc is that even though we've moved past talking about the big Time War of the old Daleks vs Gallifrey, this convoluted back and forth of mixed up cause and effect, predestination traps and bubbles of time gives the audience a deeper appreciation of how engulfing and chaotic even a small time war becomes.

I'm of two minds on this one.
Of course I always wish for more of the Doctor and I might be the biggest Who fan in the world but I definitely can wait and I'm in the best Christmas present ever camp.
However, I'm seeing all of my friends getting into Doctor Who now and it's awesome (I'm American, so just people, good-looking girls even, knowing about the show now is blowing my mind) but BBC America needs to make sure to keep some of that momentum going. So, if there's less episodes in 2012 maybe one or two specials or something would help keep things rolling. As long as the Doctor is still doing something next year, I think it'll be okay.
The Walking Dead had only six episodes and it was AMC's biggest hit ever.

Personally, I could go with the less in 2012, and more awesome in 2013, but (and I stress this BUT in a big way) the information source talking about the awesome in 2013 would have to be reliable and unimpeachable, with absolutely no chance of contradictory statements coming from the BBC or something.
The absolute biggest headache this year, has been dealing with the misinformation that seemed to actually be part of BBC policy. It was beyond infuriating.
We survived a year of Tennant with only 4 specials, but the difference there was that WE KNEW going in what to expect. The amount of, to be frank, BULLSHIT coming from BBC headquarters right now, borders on the ridiculous.

for all those years when the show was off the air. We may complain about receiving less, but even then we're loyal to a show that's been with us most of our lives.
I think we all know how to deal with less Who being on the air. Even if we don't like it.
And yes, we do all want the 50th anniversary year to be the most spectacular thing imaginable. There is that.

So we have the following possibilities to consider :-
1) The Moff lies. And it really is him. He's picked AICN out of the entire web to mingle with some very insane if courteous fans.
2) It's someone close to him, like his wife or his PA or some close relative. Someone who can see episodes months in advance, and has some idea of what TV behind the scenes can be like.
3) It's someone from the Production team working in the BBC, who clearly has access to some insider info, but remains quiet as to their identity because their job might be in jeopardy.
4) Something I haven't thought of.

Oh don't take that as confirmation of anything! I'm merely gauging what your thoughts and opinions might be. 2012 will definitely *not* be devoid of Doctor Who, that's a fact. The BBC are still 100% behind the show right across the board (despite what some of you have read - please treat those stories as total poppycock) and there's no way the show will 'take a break' for the very reasons you're all stating. The rise of the show across the pond has been noted, and nobody wants to see a drop in interest due to a break in the schedule. Yes, there's a chance we might see a reduction in the output, but that will be more than compensated for in 2013. Let's think of it like this, let's say you lose a pound (or dollar, whatever) in 2012 and gain ten times that in 2013. How does that sound? It seems like some of you like the idea, and a few don't. I suppose you can't please all of the people, all of the time eh?

but these Docbacks are ultimately I think more enjoyable at present - the conjecture and the sense of community to the 'whole'. <p>
Losing my faith in Moff, series 5 of Nu-Whos talkbacks on here threw out excellent idea after excellent idea - and the payoff of the final two episodes was a major contrivance. In terms of Series 6 the Impossible Astronaut was intrigued but I'm getting more and more of a feeling the payoff for the finale in S6 is going to be an incredible 'timey wimey' contrived cheat. <p>
I hope to be proven wrong. Doc's Wife was still the best of the first run and I'm not usually overawed by Gaiman (though Good Omens was enjoyable). This trailer looks sound but S5's made it look like a masterwork when in reality it was only a little less flawed as RTD's era. <p>
I see RTD's era as a Schizophrenic (Major highs / Major lows) whereas Moffs era is (for me granted) more a Schizophrenic on medication - less lows, but less euphoric high notes.

Normally I'd say getting less for one year in order to get a lot more in the year after (say, 1/2 season in 2012 and 1 1/2 seasons in season 13) would be good, and I saw an article where Moff says that 2013 is going to be spectacular and that it's not going to be just one anniversary story that we get.
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The one thing that nobody's factored in yet, though, is that we're supposed to be getting the Mayan Apocalypse at the end of 2012. If that's still going to happen, I'd rather get as much Doctor Who viewing in before then as I can.

maybe the 2012 Christmas special can deal with the Doctor helping to avert the Mayan Apocalypse. Since it's supposed to take place 3 days before Christmas there will probably have to be timey wimey stuff involved to make people go 'well, the world didn't end 3 days ago. Why should we watch - oh, he time looped the things responsible and the time loop decays on Christmas? Okay, I'll watch.'

It would also explain the clip of River Song with the eyepatch - all it might mean is that River might have taken Kovarian's eyepatch off of her so that River could get protection against the Silents. That seems the simplest explanation - given Moff liking complex timey wimey things it might not be the right explanation, but it feels like what he might be doing there.

Area 52, a US base with technology that reaches other worlds will play a major part in the story. In fact the whole US government and the Doctor will come to loggerheads. And the eyepatches aren't silent protectors. But close... 8-)

Sorry. It's been a mental summer and I feel like I've been neglecting my Docback duties. Plerase forgive my abscence. I've missed you all!
I, too, think things are ramping up for a 50th Anniversary blowout but somone mentioned above that the series has gathered HUGE momentum over her in North America (I'm in Canada) and it would be a shame to loose that momentum... ESPECIALLY as we approach the 50th mark.
What if there were slightly fewer episodes - but maybe more documentary style shows starting at the beginnning and covering the whole 50 years... highlighting companions... monsters.. and all the history and lore that us Whovians love so much? They certainly have tons of archival footage and I'm sure many of the actors still alive would be thrilled to come back for interviews and the like!
Just a thought.

At least if they don't have some tech nonsense built in to the patch... otherwise every partially blind person in the last however-many-hundreds of years would have seen them....
But i kinda hope not, and frankly have more faith in moffat ... i hate when they best their enemies with nonsense tech....

of COURSE they'll have special technology built in! Think about it, with Flesh avatar technology and other scientific advances they should have no problem replacing defective or missing eyes, so the eyepatch has to serve *some* reason for it to be there.
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Or, even if they can't replace eyes normally, it might allow sight along the lines of a ST:TNG Georgi visor or provide a heads-up display or something like that. Heck, it might reveal the presence of artron energy, or that energy you pick up traveling between dimensions that can be seen with 3-D glasses.
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We're dealing with the 51st century, the era of hallucinogenic lipstick (and paralytic lipstick, as Captain John Hurt showed in Torchwood), so I'd expect some suitable James Bond-y gadgets to be included with an eyepatch.

Wasn't it yourself, sir, who came on these TBs and complained about the negativity the DocBackers were showing against the mis-information from the BBC, and wanted us to talk about other things to do with the show?
I believe that most of us had complied with that request and had moved on already.
Now, you are actually ASKING us about whether we would prefer LESS output in 2012 if more was on offer in 2013?
Why are we even entertaining this line of conversation again? It caused one hell of alot of "wailing and gnashing of teeth" last time, and just when we are getting ready to celebrate the return of our favourite time lord and should be devoting our time to discussing how AWESOME part 2 of series 6 will be, our attention has been diverted.
And didn't the Moff already say "14 eps in 2012."??? Why even hypothetically discuss anything different to that??
Just check out the number of posts above dealing with your question. If it was only 1, it would be 1 too many.
Please, leave this alone. We have all spent aeons discussing this and nothing good came of it- it made alot of us (myself included) angry and quite frankly we have better things to do than get angry.

It's definitely been a while since I've seen you in the Docbacks, I hope things are getting less mental for you now (or at least going in a good direction of mental rather than a bad type of mental).
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The documentaries are a good idea. Unfortunately I suspect that the documentaries and such are being planned for 2013. What would be nice would be if they can't give us as many TV shows maybe they could work up some other things like radio episodes (like the recent Torchwood things) or some webisodes like Scream of the Shalka. Heck, they could even adapt some of the older BBC or Virgin books as audiobooks or web stories - I'd love to see Alien Bodies as a webisode or hear it being read by Paul McGann. They could even try to take advantage of doing multiple Doctor stories (not that the Doctors have to meet each other). You don't have to worry about the actors looking older when you're doing an audio. I'd love to see Matt Smith's Doctor interact with Tom Baker's Doctor (and also see if Matt Smith has as much fun say 'Mrs. Wibbsey' as Tom Baker does).

...The stetson confirms the return to episode 1 and the death of the Doc....
Madame Korvarian looks all things panto-villainess which can only end in her complete downfall....
...the HUGE pyramid makes an appearance in what will be (for the show) eye-wateringly good CGI!!! (Episode 13 anyone??? Too much for anything but the finale!!)
The Pterodactyls are here!!! Time has completely gone haywire!!!!
YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO FUCKING EXCITED BY THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
Vacation starts this Monday, and I am back just before the next series starts!!!!!
Oh, and my big toe still frigging hurts!!!!

Amputation.
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Well, a stiff drink could help. Two things you could do, amputation or a stiff drink.
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Or soaking the foot. Three things you could do. Amputation, a stiff drink or soaking the foot.
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Or painkillers. Amongst the many things you could do are amputation, a stiff drink, soaking the foot or painkillers. (Etc, etc).

...just one tiny change in the past and WHAM!!!! Causality!!
What it does is get you thinking about just how time and space went to hell in a handbag during the time war, and also gets you realising the change in the Docs attitude from McGann to Eccleson was more than likely waranted after what he went through....
...deeeeep stuff indeed!!!

I just realized something. People that know about the Fantastic Four comic history take note! The whole end of the season takes place around the pyramid from what we have seen in promos. What if a Time Lord escaped the Time War, or at any time, went back to ancient Egypt, and was worshiped as a God? Like Kang from Fantastic Four?!! Omega?! I remember one of his appearances where his outfit resembled Egyptian wear. Just a wild guess!

The original idea, I think (wish I knew who thought of this) is simply that on the inside of the eyepatch is a picture of a Silent. That's it—it's not a way of viewing invisible Silence. It's just a constant reminder that they exist.
We saw in ''Day of the Moon'' that when the TARDIS created a hologram of a Silent, people reacted as though they were seeing the real thing—they remembered, and then looked away and forgot. And again with the image of the Silent during the moon landing transmission. So as long as you are looking at the image of a Silent, you remember them. That's it.
Am I misunderstanding something?
Anyway, count me in as an adult, newly converted Who fan. I'm over 30 and I don't find it tedious in the slightest.

Apologies for riling you so badly, I was merely gauging the response to the question. I certainly don't mean to come here to annoy any of you and have enjoyed reading most of your comments. I'll keep reading (as and when I can) but perhaps it's best that I stop commenting from now on. I'm only going to end up pissing people off even more and that just won't do. Thanks for supporting the show and I hope you're not disappointed when August 27th rolls around! It's been a hoot!

There is no reason for "less in 2012" in order to make for "more in 2013." 13 episodes a year, as it is, is not _much_. It would be easy to do 13 and 20, if they wanted (and sure, some of those 20 might not all be with Matt Smith, but hey, that would help bring back other Doctors). Moreover, what exactly is going on to say it would be that much greater; as you know, the notion something is much greater is quite subjective. I would rather people try to make good seasons of Doctor Who then have some sort of "we must go over the top this season because it is the 50th anniversary." Sure, do a multi-Doctor, season-long story. Good. But still doesn't make up for the problems of losing an audience in 2012 and all the false promises we have had to justify it.

I think the whole notion we need less in 2012 to have a grand season in 2013 is absurd, as you can see. It would be easy to do a full 2012 and a special, double-season length 2013 season if they wanted to do it. If it meant hiring more writers and getting former script editors to help, and having some stories star former Doctors to do it, that would just make the 50th anniversary that much better. But to say the 50th needs the 49th to be less is disturbing, and again, it makes me wonder what one means about "great surprises" which require this.
I would also say that the Moff has only confirmed 14 episodes are being made in 2012. I've yet to see any confirmation they will all be shown in 2012. Ian Levine has consistently said that all he hears is they will not.

without you unilaterally telling MOV that one of his/her questions is off limits.
Just sayin.
It was a straight forward question, asked politely, dealt with politely and finished with politely. (Result : Most would be happy, some would not, win some lose some, can't please everyone)
If Merrick wants to add to the list of things which are verboeten in a Docback, fair enough.
But you're not Merrick.
Now back to my regular blathering...

I really do mean that, and that's despite your confrontational attitude. Accusing me of 'baiting' people wasn't really necessary, was it? Slightly disappointing behaviour, but there we go. Not much more to be said, is there? Like yourself, I have a bit of temper, so I'm departing for the good of the harmony of the group. Nobody likes to see two people argue back and forth on the internet! 'Night all!

We never had any opportunity to watch the series, and as a result I first saw an episode of Who at the age of 23. Granted, that was more than a quarter century ago, but I (along with my core group of friends) were instantly hooked...and for a good reason.
We knew *everrything* there was to know about Star Trek at that time, and Who was not only new to us, but it had a huge backstory. Stuff to learn and discuss!
So with me it was a quest for knowledge, so to speak.

Hey Whovians. Imagine you're writing & producing the 2013 series. You may bring back one surviving previous Doctor, one surviving companion and one classic villian who has not featured in NuWho.
Who's on your dream ticket?

It wasn't the Master or Rani (as far as I can remember) having the TARDIS as a pyramid - though the Rani might have done that in an early Virgin Missing Adventure.
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I do recall the Doctor describing the chameleon circuit to someone and having the computer display up on the TARDIS console, and illustrated the chameleon circuit by saying it could disguise itself as a pyramid (accompanied by early '80's computer graphic lines showing the outline of a pyramid on the computer screen). I think it might have been Tom Baker showing it to Adric in Logopolis, though a few of my brain cells have died since I last watched it and I might be misremembering what story it was in.

You might see the image of a Silent with the eyepatch so as to give you protection. The one thing that I think would need to be built in, though, is something that will protect the person from receiving posthypnotic suggestions while seeing the Silent. It might or might not be total protection against all of the Silents' Jedi mind tricks, but it might keep you from having to follow their suggestions.

The Silents give the Weeping Angels the posthypnotic suggestion "You always think you are being seen" then steps out of its sight. The posthypnotic suggestion kicks in, and the Angel finds himself quantum locked from its being certain it is being watched.

In answer to your question, yes I would be fine with that.
Just by way of example of something I would be fine with:
2012 = only 6-8 episodes
2013 = 13 episodes + 1 huge epic special for the 50th, or 2-3 awesome specials
Just as a thought.
Ultimately as long as the show continues to go on, and puts out new episodes at least once per year and have the same level of quality, I am happy.
I wouldn't mind 2012 being a year to make me 'hungry' for a huge meal of Who in 2013

I thought it could work both ways- either as protectors OR as a method for keeping people
under the control of the silents..
MOV- I'll take whatever I am given...
I'd rather have a full season next year AND A full season in 2013, buuuuut my hope is that for the anniversary they do a "children of earth" and take
over a week and do a multi doctor story.

I agree with V'Shael's comments - I think SJW's response was out of line and unnecessary.
Whether or not MOV's question had been asked before, or already posited in a different way, is irrelevant. It was being posed again, pointedly, pleasantly, directly and (presumably) after a number of heated fears about DW 2012 Season/Series schedule had abated. The question was being posed to a forum whose collective opinion MOV has indicated he respects. To slam the door on him was intrinsically disrespectful, and not in keeping with the welcoming nature we're striving to maintain in Docbacks.
And, let's stop and think this through for one moment. Let's suppose...for one brief moment of wild whimsy and reckless abandon...that MOV *is* 'The Moff.' This would mean that...of the countless places on the Internet whose forums he could choose to grace...he came here - to humble and imperfect little AICN, to move amongst people like us.
Let that sink in for a minute.
***If*** MOV is Moffat...he would have many reasons for not revealing his true identity to us - partly out of coy enjoyment I should think, but chiefly there would be an inordinate number of political considerations necessitating his anonymity. Believe me...there are hugely talented and incredibly famous people participating in Talkbacks every day, remaining anonymous for a number of very good reasons. I know this for a fact (and, no, I won't tell you their names). So *if* MOV is Moffat - or if we can't disprove that he is - it's narrow-minded, short-sighted, and rude to make him feel uneasy about posting questions or comments of any kind.
The same holds true even if MOV is *not* 'The Moff.' Once we start telling *anyone* what they should and should not say...then free speech and open discourse goes out the window. That's contrary to the Code of Conduct that appear above every Friday Docback (granted, they do not appear during weekly posts...perhaps they should, for as long as I'm involved). And, frankly, a Talkback...or Dockback...where someone gets hammered for trying to communicate fairly and politely doesn't interest me in the slightest.
So, yeah. Bad move SJW. I've enjoyed your presence and your posts but that one was just plain thoughtless - and potentially very destructive.
Not. Happy. At. All.

I would qualify the Dream Lord as close enough to the Valeyard as to disqualify him, though (otherwise I might pick him too). Going for someone who hasn't been used at all in new Who though, I'd probably go for The Celestial Toymaker, though a close second would the the Master. Not the Time Lord one, but the Master of the Land of Fiction. Though, come to think of it, if you could have both in the series - maybe the Celestial Toymaker has challenged the Master for the Land of Fiction, and the Doctor gets roped in on it. I think either one would work well the the tone that Steven Moffat has established for his run, and might be better here than in, say, the RTD run.
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I think that an extra category should be added. Don't just include a villain who hasn't been used in new Who, but also a monster/race. I would first pick the Zygons.

While knowing they exist in general, I've never watched any episodes of the original before watching the current run. In my 20s, and not British, so it's not like I'd have had much opportunity to watch them anyways. Actually started watching from the start of season 2, telling myself that I'll catch the rest later, and then even later when I realized it wasn't David Tenant as the Doc in season 1. Been hooked the new Who ever since, and certainly haven't found the show boring (with the possible exception of one or two RTD episodes).
Trailer looks great, here's hoping the second half of the season turns out as great as it's shaping up to be.
Like the idea of Silent eye patch protectors/reminders, but doubt its anything like that...

Please don't leave! Seriously. Whoever you are, you ARE part of the fabric of this place...
Someone's always accidentally saying something that has an effect they didn't mean- it's the nature of life online, I don't think you meant to elicit that reaction from anyone, and I respect your decision to leave rather than indulge what would be most people's reaction -which is get hot headed and respond in kind.
Please, however- don't go forever. You're too much fun. Even if you didn't write press gang. ;-)

I like the pyramid - it must be from the mashed up timeline with Emperor Churchill and his mammoth.
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I wonder if one of the pteradactyls we see in the trailer is going to make its way into the recent past and eventually get captured by Captain Jack and Ianto. It would be a cute Easter egg to throw in. I have to admit, it's nice seeing dinosaurs done well in Doctor Who.

I'm just playing catchup with this series (the current companion is Donna) and I don't understand a good 80 percent of what's being said here. Hopefully I'll be able to catch all the way up and be able to watch the new stuff live (assuming the first part of this most recent season shows up in time).
I look forward to understanding at least 40 percent more of what ya'll are talking about as we get closer to the premiere.
But yeah, like Merrick said, I can understand that baseball analogy but I don't really think it applies. I had no exposure to the show whatsoever growing up and have definitely embraced it. Some people may be of the mindset that a show with nearly 50 years of history may be tough to jump into, but I've found for the most part that the writing so far has been very effective at throwing noobs a bone so they can follow along without having to start googling (although damn if I'm starting to wonder how many "last daleks" there are...)

Is the reason for the absence of a series in 2012 mean that the budget that would of been used to produce it being used to double the budget for 2013? I am guessing that the BBC didn't want to add a bunch of more money to the budget for the 50th anniversary season, so the only way to do so would be to scrap 2012 to add that budget for the 2013 series. By doing so, making the 50th Anniversary season look and feel like a motion picture in scale of effects/actors, etc. If that is the real case, then I hope that "M.O.V. *cough* Moffat" knocks it out of the park!

I don't think we're going to see 20 episodes produced in 2013, just from production time that would be involved (plus factoring in Sherlock). I wouldn't mind having some extra specials, though. I think it would be nifty to have one episode that's just a flashback to the 20th century (or late 19th) focusing on The Last Centurion, and the day Rory met Captain Jack when he worked for the old version of Torchwood. You could even fit in a brief bit with the Tennant Doctor. Which raises the question, does Rory know about the different regenerations of the Doctor? Having Rory run into another Doctor and not know it's the Doctor could be fun; alternatively, Rory knows it's one of the past Doctors and has to keep the Doctor from having knowledge about his future (which might include making sure the earlier Doctor doesn't get a good view of Rory's face so that the Matt Smith Doctor won't suddenly remember meeting Rory in the past the first time he sees Rory in The Eleventh Hour.

I agree, we won't. But it is not because it can't be done. What you do is add to the team for the year. Add to the script editors and writers and directors. Film two stories at the same time (multiple Doctors allowing for this). It could be done. It won't be done.
And I really doubt this "it will be worth it." I don't see anything which justifies less in 2012. Nothing.

a Doctor Who fan first & foremost and therefore deserves the same respect and courtesy afforded to all of us. If I want to witness this kind of rudeness, I'll go on XBox live and get it from a nine year old with ADHD from Wisconsin, like everyone else. ;)
Anyway, the matters at hand:
2012 vs 2013? I'm conflicted. I want the Doc's fiftieth to be a year long extravaganza of groovy Whoviness that we'll talk about for years. On the other hand, during Tennant's semi-sabbatical year of "proper acting" (sic) I pined for more Who. Like a prepubesctent H. Knowles pined for chili fries at fat camp.

Moffat confirmed that the BBC is producing 14 episodes of Doctor Who in 2012. The BBC hasn't just promised to show them all in 2012. It might not be a case of adding a bunch more money to the 2013 series budget per se, it might be in part holding some of the 2012 episodes for 2013. If they only show 7 of the 14 in 2012 (including Christmas special), that would be 7 more for 2013, plus whatever they produce for the 2013 series (potentially 20 episodes, total, or maybe just 13 regular episodes plus a bunch of specials.
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That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see some more money thrown at the 2013 season to do some more documentaries and specials. There might be a second documentary series in conjunction with Doctor Who confidential. It could be like the Totally Doctor Who from a few years back (and, truth be told, I wouldn't mind an animated story like they included in Totally Doctor Who for the 50th anniversary).
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For all we know there might be spinoff series or miniseries for 2013, though they probably wouldn't be as long as 13 episodes. At this point I wouldn't rule out a miniseries set in the 51st century dealing with River Song, Dorium and/or the Time Agency. Again, the Doctor could pop up in it to a smaller extent while still keeping doing all the episodes for the regular series (brief glimpses of the Doctor on a date with River, or the Agency watching the Doctor, or the Doctor in Dorium's bar).
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Come to think of it, could the people behind weaponizing Time Head babies be the Time Agency? It's the right time period, and they might have a grudge against the Doctor because the Doctor's goals are at cross-purposes with the Time Agency?

Having just rewatched BBC America's rebroadcast of River Song's introduction--the excellent 2 parter "Silence In The Library" & "Forest of the Dead", her vocieover at the end seems appropriate as we discuss and debate how the Doctor will once again dodge his "death".
River in voiceover:
"Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not every day. Not today.
Some days are special. Some days are so so blessed. Some days nobody dies at all. Now and then, every once in a very long while—every day in a million days when the wind stands fair and the Doctor comes to call—everybody lives. "
I cannot wait to see how it all works out.

While I love the idea that they could be some kind of "Silent protector", I still think the fact that River is seen wearing an eyepatch is just her in disguise. In the first trailer we were given we see her face for longer & to me, she seemed to have that "patented" RS smile & look of "I'm about to stir up some trouble" on her face. Granted that may be TOO simple of an answer, but maybe she is undercover & trying to "pass" for Madame Kovarian. or.....NOT.
Time WILL tell.

I'm with you there fella. It'd be wonderful to see McGann given a fair crack of the whip. Companion? Well I always wondered how Ace turned out. Or maybe even a MILFy, warrior queen Leela. Villain? Gotta be Sil! Lot's of villains were scary, threatening or spooky but I found Sil joyously disgusting as a kid and I'd love to see what a modern prosthetic team could do with him.

As for the "big baddie" talk, it has been rumored since last year that it WOULD be Omega & that both S5 & 6 would play a part in that overall "silence will fall" story.
Now, that may or may NOT be the case, BUT--just rewatch "A Good Man Goes to War" & note the Omega symbols are EVERYWHERE--on the clerics collars, all over the station, etc.
Now, exactly how a "church" was founded specifically to combat the Doctor is connected to an insane Time Lord trapped in the anti-matter Universe....I'll be happy to leave that to SM to explain.

For the record, over the past few weeks it's felt like SJW thought he had a bit of a stripe on... various comments to various people that gave himself an air of superiority...
I'm all for healthy debate, even geeky fan wankery, but let's keep it friendly...
Maybe MoV is a future incarnation of The Moff... or the past...

I'm also asking you nicely to stick around... your thoughtful insights into our favourite show are always welcome!!!
Soem things are taking way too seriously or out of context on the web... I think that this may be one of those times. I, for one, wlecome you here....
Speaking of which thanks for the warm welcome back, gang! I'll have to get shibley and frozen in here, too! Then the whole team will be almost reunited!!!

I tried the edit function on my last post but, as expected, it didn't work (404 error and had to log in again). Now the mod commands have disappeared from sight. I don't know if you had been doing anything behind the scenes, but I thought you'd want to know that things were briefly getting weird again.
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It sounds like an episode - The Doctor will Return in The Curse of the Phantom Moderator Commands.

My prediction for the big baddy this season? Someone who HATES the Doctor... maybe someone who the Doctor took from his home and then supposedly died afterwards never seeing his home again?
ADRIC!
Anyone? Anyone?

Actually show the Colin Baker Doctor and Evelyn on TV. She made such a wonderful companion in the audios that it would be lovely to see her get a chance to show up on TV.
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An older Colin Baker showing up in the TV show might not be so bad - we didn't get that good a glance at the 6th Doctor before he fell down at the beginning of Time and the Rani, we could all pretend that it's an older Colin Baker Doctor (or, maybe sometime later they'll do a 'special edition' with an older Colin Baker edited in for the McCoy-as-Baker we got. I wish they did it for the release we just got.)
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It's a shame we couldn't have a 1st Doctor appearance (though there are ways it could be done, if some CGI were used and the Doctor just appeared on a screen the way he did in The Three Doctors) - I'd love to see the 1st Doctor refer to the Matt Smith Doctor as a 'young whippersnapper' (though he could do that for the Tennant Doctor just as easily).

Quite frankly, despite the badge for mathematical excellence, Adric doesn't have the brains to be a Big Bad. Just look at how he was almost always getting snookered by the different people opposing the Doctor. If he weren't dead and vaporized on reentry, Adric would have "LACKEY" written on his forehead.

that went by quickly
I'm all for splitting the seasons up from now on, its the same amount of episodes per year, but feels like having more Who per year just because it's spread out more
I swear the older I get the faster time goes by, I blinked and July just vanished.
2011 is fucking 2/3rds over already????

My friends and I were JUST talking about that! Where did July go?! A casualty of the Time War?! Has the universe gone wibbley wobbley timey whimey? Or are we just getting so old and busy that time rushes past us like water in a river? *sigh*
And doctortom.... I was certainly joking about Adric! LOL

Assuming your still reading our talkback comments, I think if we as a fan base were to be appraised through an announcement that less in 2012 (and how much less in 2012) would be followed by extreme awesome in 2013, that would be fantastic.
I'm all for bigger Christmas presents, or in my case Hannuka presents...

Show some starch, fella - it's the Internet - home of the Bastards; don't let 'em grind you down. ~grin~ Shake it off, and get back in the game. How do you expect to maintain your ambiguous, legendary status by hiking off?
Trolls - don't feed 'em, don't take their poison unto thyself.
Anyway.
As to the 2012-13, the main concern is how much anyone can trust the Beeb after this year's sudden switcheroo. If somebody has something signed and in a safe somewhere, I'm golden for a little diet - I'm an Old School TOS Trekkie. I can do a year of waiting standing on my head for a sure thing. Done much longer on much less.

Y'know, much good can come - at least here - with some multi-multi cliffhanging. Much yammering and analysis, discussion and diatribe.
A whole lot depends on how the series is structured, content wise - DESIGNED to be shown One every other month, DESIGNED to be shown in two 3-month intallments, etc.
Clever writers should be able to make the problem bearable by making the pauses tactical for the masochistic pleasure of us mad fanboys.

But man, I do love me some Doctor #3.
Multi-Doctor stories? We should stick with Tennant and McGann (since Eccleston apparently doesn't want anything to do with Doctor Who after having his horrible experience with some of the executives.) Everybody else is just too old, while I would love to see the Bakers and Davison, it might be too distracting because we're used to a different image of them (even though Peter
Davison was pretty awesome in Time Crash.)
I can't believe we're seriously discussing Doctor Who's 50th anniversary. This show has been part of my life since the early 80's, wow. I thought it was old then!

Fascinating idea. I agree with a number of the comments above - the idea of having a picture of the Silent in front of one eye at all times is such a clever idea, I'd be a little disappointed to see it NOT be the reason.
Mind you, the idea of the bull creature trying to blend in as Madame Kovarian by wearing the eye patch has some good comic relief...so I guess I'd be a fan of seeing either scenario play out.
I notice the Weeping Angels aren't a part of this trailer, so I'd guess it won't be a whole episode devoted to the villains - maybe an imaginary scenario or illusion of some kind. With less than 6 full hours to fill for the remainder of the season, you can't have everything.
Rewatching Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead, I was pleasantly surprised to hear how many musical cues line up with critical moments in seasons 5 and 6. Though it's unlikely every beat was planned back that far, I'm guessing River's appearances are meant to have some degree of resonance if watched in the correct order...which amusingly enough could be backward or forward.
Anyone know if the "Time" and "Space" specials are part of a future DVD release (ala "Time Crash" with Season 4)? Just saw on YouTube - nice.

Firstly, if the tone of the post came over a little rough, I sincerely apologise to both of you.
I can imagine, Merrick, you being a "tad" upset by MOV deciding not to post here anymore- HECK! That certainly wasn't my intention at all, nor was it ever mentioned in my post. Indeed, it is neither my place or position to deny anyone the right to post comments on here, nor would I ever dream of doing so. As adults, we have the right to make our own decisions, and MOVs not to post here, whilst I respect, I find totally unecessary and a little OTT.
My initial reaction to his question was one of sheer incredulity- during previous DocBacks where things were getting steamed up over the BBCs decision to a) not give us any info, b) give us the wrong info et.c, MOV was the voice of reason in an ever swirling storm of shit. Now it seemed, even though the question was asked politely (and I would have expected nothing else from him) that the issue was once again being raked up which could have ignited another tinderbox of frustration across the DocBack- something, let's face it, none of us would want!
Presumptious to ask a question based on what I thought others might think? Yes, on hindsight I totally agree.
Merrick, I am sincerely glad that you have enjoyed me being here on the DocBacks, and should know by now the respect I have for you, sir. It is a respect I extend to each individual who frequents these TBs, takes the time to share the love of a fantastic programme that captures the hearts, minds and imagination of generations of individuals all over the world.
People like HornOrSilk, 2Legged, Pogue, Frozen, Axcel, rebel, doctortom et al are a credit to the show and show what "fandom" means to n ewbies who are tempted to post here for the first time, taking their first tenuous steps to join with a great bunch of people....
...... do I want to be the cause of negativity amongst all of this?????
Not for all the money in the world.
So, I bow out gracefully and apologetically to you all, again especially you, Merrick, who have been gracious enough to provide a weekly home for a community that can only grow from strength to strength.
MOV- if you're still here, and you're still reading- take the plunge. Dive back in. The waters fine. The sun is shining. Frozen is serving some cocktails and HornOrSilk is sunning himself by the pool. Rejoin the DocBack.
As for me, my lifes wishes to each of you- may the very best things come your way daily, may you live in peace and harmony, may good health find you and on that day to come may each of you meet your maker with a full lifes contentment.
This is Sam Jacksons Wig... and he has left the building.
SJW.

There's a bug in the talkback software. If you use a pair of double quotes in your post, such as to quote someone specifically, (like the way you quoted Vader from Empire) then what happens is this :
All the text before the first double quote is dropped.
The double quote itself is dropped.
The line you were quoting appears in the post.
The closing double quote disappears, and so does any of the text following it.
Sucks, eh?
For now, I've found a workaround solution of using two apostrophes instead of a single double quote. They look similar on screen, and it seems to avoid triggering the bug. Hope this helps in future.

Love the Docback as much as I do Gallifreybase. As a Whovian who has seen every available piece of televised Doctor Who that exists (classic and Nu) and that goes back since I started watching at nine years of age thanks to KDNL (independent station at the time) and KETC (PBS) here in St. Louis (and also a couple of years of watching SIU-Carbondale's PBS station out of Olney, IL which had Who in their unaltered 25 minute episodes each day), I feel I can honestly say that I'm really, really worried that the BBC is on the verge of pulling another 1989 cancellation. I was surprised at what went on a couple of months back as the next fan but upon hearing Steven Moffat reveal that next year's episode tally will be light but the anniversary year's will be heavy I kind of breathed a sigh of relief. But a week ago, Frank Darabont left as showrunner from The Walking Dead (which means he resigned so they did not have to fire him) and we all started to find out that AMC was cutting budgets like crazy there for TWD and Breaking Bad so they could fund extra seasons of Mad Men. And this all made me realize, that for whatever may come for Doctor Who, its life expectancy is just as fragile as any genre series out there. It DOES NOT get a pass from its own suits at the Beeb who are out to cut budgets or snuff out high end creativity for mass produced, lowest common denominator television that can be funded without somebody's pocketbook taking a hit. I'm calling it right now--Moffat needs to look to Starz or HBO or Showtime for help. The time of producing Who through just the BBC in the UK is over. Two weeks ago at Comic Con proves that the US fanbase is massive and that was only a small gathering of Whovians who happened to attend. There are legions more out there in the US who are willing to pay for Who on their premium cable networks. That's how you save Doctor Who. Russell T. Davies has proved that with Torchwood. Now Moffat has got to do the same.

Starz have already said that despite the ratings, a new series of Torchwood is not a sure thing. They want RTD to stay with the show, as part of the deal for a new season.
And RTD isn't really interested. He wants to hand the show off to someone else.

Towards the end of the trailer, during the jump cuts, there's a shot of a man (apparently) regenerating - and his sideburns look a LOT like David Tennants'...
Or is it just some guy getting evaporated?

You possibly over reacted, Understandable to many of us, given that I understand you are in physical pain... it AMPLIFIES things.
However, leaving really isn't in my opinion, the solution.
You, like MOV are part of the fabric of this place too and for either of you to leave over one exchange would be a shame, It's not like you two have decades of bad blood or are consistently at war with each other. You both bring so much to this place and for both of you to leave over one heated exchange seems to be a bit unfair on the rest of us.
It seems both of you have chosen permanent solutions to a temporary problem.
Surely, there's another way?

That scene was also in the earlier trailer.
It's one of the crew being transmatted up.
I'm not sure what episode the ship is in but a clip of their 4 man crew can be seen in one of the trailers. And there aren't too many options for an episode with a spaceship left.
It can't be "Let's Kill Hitler".
It's unlikely to be "The Girl Who Waited"
It's probably not the Lodger part 2, whatever it's called.
It's definitely not "Night Terrors".
Or "God Complex"
So what does that leave? The finale. Very possibly with the Pyramid.
The Pyramid with the American flag on it, and railway coming out of it.

I really hope to see both of you back as contributors to these DocBacks. You're both clearly passionate about Who, along with the majority of people who post here. Hope you both reconsider and carry on posting.
As for MoV's question, I guess the BBC will do what they will do, regardless. As a long time fan, 2012 will be a long year with not much new Who. But the promise of a bumper 2013 is intriguing to say the least. I do worry about the loss of momentum that the series has built up, particularly in the USA. Then again, we had that year of the four Tennant specials, and that didn't seem to hurt the viewing figures too much. Does make me wonder how much the Beeb will be spending on their coverage of the London Olympics next year, though.
I do think the current showrunners have done a lot to keep the show in the public eye, so I'm inclined to trust them. As well as the episodes, we've had free computer games, a new exhibition in London, Doctor Who Live (which was great - yay) and The Crash of the Elysium (which I missed - argh), and a big push in America. It's a very good time to be a Who fan, in my opinion.

A quick thanks to the Gland of Omega for reminding me to post this.
I got to go to the Doctor Who experience the other week, while I was in London for a few days.
It seems that the exhibition is changing throughout its run.
For example, the Silents are modelled and feature in 4 places I could see, but those models only went up after the airing of the Impossible Astronaut, apparently.
And in the same way, they now have an Idris costume along with information card, etc... which I imagine only went up after the Doctors Wife episode had aired.
So, if any of you have been or are planning to go, just be aware that there may be new exhibits being added to the Experience, once new episodes have shown us some new things.
Some final quick points for those who may be attending or thinking about attending.
1) Bring a smart phone if you have one. They have their own wifi network, which interacts with the exhibits, and gives you the opportunity to get discounts in the store.
2) They say there's no photos allowed at the start, but that's actually not true. There's lots of places you can take photos. There will be specific sections where the ever-present staff say not to photograph, though.
3) If you're going as part of a group, you'll find it cheaper if you split in two. Anyone who buys a day ticket and goes through, can buy a "re-entry" ticket for 4 quid. Give that and the original ticket to your mate, and split the cost. You can both do the experience separately for a fraction of the cost.
4) The shop at the end is a bit of a rip off when it comes to DVDs and that. BUT they HAD ADIPOSE TOYS!!!
I wanted one ever since I saw the episode, as a stress reliever. Squeeze the little bastard and throw him about the room. Stretch him, whatever. He returns to his original shape in minutes. Fantastic little toy.
5) When you go into the building, you can go upstairs to the experience, turn right and go into the tea shop. No charge. From there, you can see the password for the wifi, and access the website with your smartphone, including discounts and all that. You can ALSO go from the tea-shop into the Doctor Who shop, use your discounts etc... You just can't go from the Doctor Who shop back into the experience. (Even if you have a ticket.)
So if you fancy seeing the shop, website, and buying some merchandise, you don't actually need to do the experience at all. Your smartphone will show you a bunch of the exhibits with excellent pieces of information for each.

Doctor Who showrunner Steven Moffat has insisted that celebrations for the show's 50th anniversary will be 'huge'. The writer told TV Line that 2013 will be 'an amazing year' for fans of the sci-fi drama. Moffat explained 'I've got various plans, but all I can say emphatically is it will be huge. There's lot of decisions we're making that are about making all that possible. It'll be amazing.' Moffat also confirmed that plans for the anniversary extend beyond a one-off special episode. 'It won't be just one thing, we'll be doing lots of stuff,' he hinted. 'The plans are quite extensive, and changing all the time. Oh my God, we will hit that year very, very hard indeed.'
However, Moffat added that his ideas for 2013 are still at a very early stage of development. 'It's so far in the future, [so] it's only a set of notions,' he said.

All right - fill me in.
Thinking back to the beginning of the series/season, I'm curious about a couple things.
Doctor Who isn't the only show on TV; there are half a kabillion other ones, most of which are cop shows. And, although it's not exactly a law enforcement primer, I suppose there might be some lessons to be learned.
We're taking somebody's word that the doctor has been killed beyond regeneration.We got a nice gobbledegook answer that we accepted to move the story along, but history is rife with the old saw, "Fortunately, I knew an old Indian trick to lower my heart rate and respiration..." Moff has said that it Was the Doctor, and he Was Dead... but he didn't say he was "double-dead." Two half-powered shots could make one, single, whole dead. Dead people don't usually stand up to take a second shot, do they?
TV cops always get itchy when people bury a body double quick. Again, we got a gobbledegook answer, but what we also got was a quick disposal of a corpse that many people had eyes-on and an interest in.
I maintain that Rory and River both seemed rather unmoved and driven at the Doctor's death, both taking part in 1) allowing the assassination to go through unabated and 2) disposing of the body quickly and convincingly.
Does anybody have canon on the max length of time between Timelord death and regeneration?

No, Man! It would be just as tremendous of a blow to these amazing Docbacks if you left as well. As I said, earlier, sometimes the interwebs isn't a place for clarity when it comes to tone or meaning or sarcasm or any of those things and things can certainly be misinterpreted and taken the wrong way. I think over reactions are being made and everyone needs to just take a deep breath. Group Hug. Aaaaaaaaaand move on.
You KNOW that this talkback, more than any other, shows a level of respect and mutual admiration that I've never seen anywhere on the internet and both you and MOV have been integral to that! It would be a devestating blow to both moral - and our enjoyment of our Docbacks - if either of you were to leave.
And that's a fact.

Well done on the Pertwee face exchange! That has me even MORE excited for the idea! And what son wouldn't want to stand in his father's shoes and contribute to the incredible legacy that his father has left behind!?

The longest we saw between death and regeneration was either the Doctor's Daughter, Jenny, or the seventh doctors death on the operation table, and his regeneration in the morgue.
So we know that there is sometimes a length of time between the death and regeneration. For example, when Doctor 3 was dying of radiation poisoning, his regeneration was given a little push by Kan'po. If that hadn't happened, we don't know how long the corpse would have lain around.
In the case of the Doctor at the lake, we saw him get shot, and we know it was fatal as he started a regeneration cycle. We also know that the regeneration cycle was interrupted by another shot. That is pretty conclusive on its own.

I think everyone has enjoyed the cat and mouse around MOV. Of course we all have our theories but I have to say I felt it wasn't Merrick's place to blow the gaff, whatever gaff it is. No snark intended, I just think SJW & MOV would have worked it out by themselves. Lao Tzu said, "fish should not leave their depths; nor swords their scabbards".
As it is I hope that, whoever he or she is, MOV will regenerate as some other identity here. Use the Internet anagram server and move on. Heck, I'll go do that myself now to provide him with some cover. I encourage others here to do so too. It's the "I'm Spartacus" approach.
As for Sam, dude, there is no reason to exile yourself - a bunch of folk piled on but you are loved here and you should just brazen it out. And I say that even though you did leave me off your list!

Eyepatches... A viking-like character wearing an eyepatch... other characters wearing an eyepatch.
Someone mentioned Odin - Father of the Norse Gods - wearing an eyepatch. Maybe there's more to this than meets the eye. After all, didn't River Song once mention an adventure with the Doctor that she described as 'A Picnic in Asgard'? Hmmm?
And the shot in the trailer with the train coming into a pyramid (marked with an American flag and dubbed Area 52?).... was it in 'The Big Bang' (I can't quite remember) where the Doctor mentions 'The Orient Express being hijacked by an Egyptian Goddess'... Trains? Pyramids? We know The Moff planted The Crash Of The Byzantium seeds ages before they bore fruit... could this be more of the same?
Just food for thought.

I'm not sold on the Doctor's new jacket... it's a bit too 'high adventure', Captain Jack-like for me. I like the Mad Professor vibe that the tweed and elbow pads afford him. I'll have to see it in action.

*** I have to say I felt it wasn't Merrick's place to blow the gaff ***
Isn't this, to an extent, like trying to have it both ways? On the one hand, people are quick to ask me to ban someone, or enforce "this" or "that" agreed-upon policy to try to keep proceedings in Docbacks running smoothly...but you're also suggesting I'm not allowed to unilaterally call attention to behavior *I * think is out of line? Especially when said behavior was potentially quite damaging to the complexion and value of our Docbacks as a whole?
I don't understand that delineation and am not even sure there is one. I'm not angry when writing this, by the way - just trying to be clear and concise.

*** You KNOW that this talkback, more than any other, shows a level of respect and mutual admiration that I've never seen anywhere on the internet and both you and MOV have been integral to that! It would be a devestating blow to both moral - and our enjoyment of our Docbacks - if either of you were to leave. ***
Couldn't have said it better.

soon. and john barrowman has hinted that he would like to see a smith and torchwood team up. one dr who phrase has already come into torchwood this season. its a lot bigger on the inside.
I think it is going to happen. plans are possibly under way. as part of the 50th anniversary. who knows....

I think Torchwood and Who are two very different animals right now. While they both take place in the same universe they are so tonaly different that crossovers are difficult - while not impossible. I can see the Torchwood characters guesting on Who but not the other way around.
Doctor Who has - and always will be - a family show and luring kids to the decidedly adult Torchwood wouldn't be prudent... especially if their parents didn't realize the more adult nature of Torchwood. Some red faces there.
And having Torchwood appearences on Who only lead kids to think 'I like those characters and want to see more of them' leading them to hunt down Torchwood etc etc... it's a double edged sword.
I won't lie! I'd love to see Gwen and Jack in a high spirited fun sci fi romp with the Doctor and Companions! Imagine Rhyss on an alien planet - baby in tow - blowing a gasket! It could make for a super fun romp. To see themout of their ultra serious milieu would be great. I just don't see it happening. But you're right... likely some crossover plans for the 50th.
Wow. 50th. Seems surreal, don't it.

Brilliant idea, fella and nice work on the pic. You've convinced me and if Pertwee jnr isn't interested, maybe it's time for a Worzel Gummidge reboot. U.S. docbackers - google it for a really different side of Pertwee.

Argh! I never wanted SJW to disappear from here, so how about I keep checking in now and again and he comes back too? It's not like we verbally insulted each other or anything (and even if he did, I have a thick skin, so it wouldn't have been an issue). We're both grown men (and fathers) so I'm sure we can laugh about it now and move on eh? I certainly don't hold a grudge (you can't hold a grudge in my line of work - you'd end up bitter and twisted - see: Lawrence Miles) so let's just move on and pretend that nothing happened. At the end of the day, we're all Doctor Who fans and this is a great place to talk about the show we all love. I only ended up here because one of the 'hugely talented and incredibly famous people' that Merrick referred to made me aware of how much traffic the show was getting on this website and I thought it would be fun to mix with fellow fans. And it really *has* been fun and I don't see any reason why it can't continue to be fun. So no hard feelings, let's just call it all a big misunderstanding and move on like adults. It's only the bloody internet! How about it SJW? Kiss and make up?

23rd November 2013 is a Saturday. So show The Unearthly Child on BBC1 at the *exact* time that it originally aired (sometime early evening, I guess). Then have the special tie in with the first episode in some way. The return of Susan, maybe. Or recreate the set of the junk yard and surrounding streets, taking the Tardis to shortly before or after the First Doctor was there.

Thanks to v'shael for the tips on the Doctor Who Experience, and for posting the closing date. It's on my to-do list, looks like I'd better get a move on!
So, quick question: who on here has been to the Experience? What did you think of it? And who's planning to go?
I'll also echo v'shael's sentiments re. MoV. Good to see you back, and hope SJW follows suit.
Oh, and as MoV seems to be connected to the show in some way - one thing I didn't mention in my earlier post was the Doctor Who Script to Screen competition, which gave 9 -11 year old schoolchildren in the UK a chance to write a mini-episode and have it filmed and broadcast. I'd just like to say that my class of nine year old kids really enjoyed the two weeks we spent on it - though possibly not as much as I did! They really got a lot out of it. Even though we didn't win. Grr. More of the same, please!

We're all fizzing at the bung-hole for multiple Doctors, but I'll be just dandy with something along the line of that old DS9 episode where they went back into an episode of the original Star Trek.
Seeing the eleventh Doc and co. fitted seamlessly into a classic old episode would be sheer geek heaven.!

First, a couple of things...Pogue...Pogue_Mahone...or should that be Pog Mo Thoin? Ha, sorry I just love the idea of a talk(doc)backer taking an Irish insult and turning it into a username that 90% of others are oblivious to. Genius sir...unless it was a coincidence...um...I'll stick with genius.
Second MoV, since as you said yourself you are not the Moff, there's no point in me, as a struggling screenwriter, pitching my concept for a Doctor Who special to you? No? Aw alright then. I'll turn it into a completely original script called "The Dentist" and submit it to the BBC Writer's Room instead.
Third, there wasn't supposed to be a third but I wonder if Moffat ever has people around him call him The Moff or if he walks into a room and proclaims "The Moff is here!!!" I doubt it but the idea makes me chuckle.
Anyways, regarding the 50th does anyone have any ideas as to what they'd like to see? A McGann story? The Time War? The return of Susan? A multi-Doctor team up with Smith, Tennant, McGann and Eccleston? Admittedly an Eccleston appearance does seem unlikely given his apparent dissatisfaction with the people involved during his tenure but you never know.
Personally, and this goes back to my comment about an idea for a Doctor Who special that wasn't entirely said in jest, I'd actually like to see the 50th go right back to the beginning, right back to the First Doctor.
I've had this idea in my head for a long time about a story that would lead into An Unearthly Child and focus on how The Doctor and Susan ended up where they were when we first met them. This would involve a younger First Doctor so it wouldn't be a case of replacing Hartnell, more like finding an actor to portray a younger version of him.
I've tended to assume that before An Unearthly Child, there was some tragedy in the Doctor's life, probably his family being killed, that led to him becoming the guardian of his granddaughter and my First Doctor idea kinda focuses on that. There are some issues of course. Any such story would take away some of the mystery of the Doctor and possibly even reveal his real name, which at this stage would probably be a disappointment no matter what it was so it would be best to leave that out if possible.
I actually conceived of the First Doctor idea a few years ago and it could be fitting for the 50th though I'm sure more knowledgable Docbackers than I will point out why it wouldn't work or why it shouldn't be done.
More recently I came up with an idea to tie the Eleventh Doctor into it in a convoluted RTD-esque way. The basic idea was that the First Doctor story would be shown at the beginning of the season. It would be all First Doctor. Then the season continues as normal with the Eleventh Doctor and in the season finale, the Eleventh Doctor actually witnesses the tragedy his former self went through and is powerless to stop it because it would completely mess up time and space.
This is where it gets ridiculous. My concept was that The Master would actually become a companion. Because Rassilon and the Time Lords were corrupted by their experiences in the Time War, Rassilon would essentially conceive of a plan to basically press the reset button, putting the Time Lords back to the position they were in before the Time War, before they were corrupted. The problem is, this would destroy much of the "lower lifeforms" in the universe and so the Doctor and the Master would team up to stop Rassilon.
Are your eyes rolling yet? That wasn't even the ridiculous part. By the end The Master basically becomes the new leader of the Time Lords and all is well. But The Master can't be a good guy, right? Of course not. This is where it gets a bit tragic and completely ridiculous.
The Master looks into the Untempered Schism, looking at all of time and he sees a pattern, a chain of events that led him and The Doctor to where they are. Everything the Doctor has achieved is because of one tragic moment and The Master realises that he plays a vital role in that - he's the one who kills the Doctor's family. To preserve the time line, The Master has to go back to the time of the First Doctor and carry out that act. The Doctor finds out of course and follows him back, intent on stopping him.
But he can't. He realises that if he stops it, the universe would be...well...screwed. So he has to stand and watch in the shadows and relive the trauma and agony his former self went through. But while he had to allow it to happen, he has no intention of letting the Master get away with it and follows him back to Gallifrey for a final confrontation.
Told ya it was ridiculous. I have this idea of The Master and The Doctor fighting in front of the Untempered Schism and falling in. The Doctor manages to escape but the Master falls into the Time Vortex, apparently dead though he's survived such things before so he can always come back.
But the Doctor's body starts using up it's remaining regenerations due to his direct contact with the Time Vortex. He's dying. To prevent this, the other Time Lords all give the Doctor one of their regenerations. If there are a thousand Time Lords that means a thousand regenerations, thus solving the 12 regenerations problem. The Doctor then leaves Gallifrey, possibly with Susan, together again in the little blue box ready to travel through time and space.
Ridiculous? Absolutely. I conceived of it as a "final episode" to Doctor Who that left room for adventures in the future. It all began with The Doctor and Susan and so it would end with The Doctor and Susan...but with a thousand more regenerations, the Doctor lives on with more stories to tell.

Looks like they actually have some good talking heads in the specials, but are they all limited to new who only? I'd still much rather BBCA just showed uncut versions of Confidential rather than making Americanized VH1 versions. BBCA is a pretty confusing channel. They seem embarrassed to show actual British things. Nothing says BBC like re-runs of old American sci-fi shows. Also wish they could find a way to get a sponsor that provides for more limited commercial interruptions.

and both got it from radiation poisoning.
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It took time for Pertwee to get the TARDIS back to Earth, we don't know if the regeneration was actually trying to kick in during all that or if he was mentally willing it back.
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With Tennant, we know the regeneration started right after he got dosed with the radiation. He held back the regeneration long enough to do the 'victory lap'.

They've actually done the Master as a companion - look up Scream of the Shalka. It was supposed to be canon for the 9th Doctor, but doesn't count now because the TV series came back. They had the Master's mind in the body of a robot that couldn't leave the TARDIS.

We see him spiralling into darkness at the end of The War Games, but we don't see that the regeneration had actually started. In fact, season 6b is kind of predicated on the Doctor actually not being forced to regenerate at the end of The War Games, but going around after that. Presumably when they reach the end of the 6B stories he's forced to regenerate then.
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We almost had a long regeneration between McGann and Eccleston. RTD was going to let Doctor Who Magazine show the regeneration. Because of things with the companion around in the comic at the time there might have been the need to have a regenerated Doctor have a story with the companion then leaving her behind somewhere at story's end. They wouldn't have been allowed to show Eccleston in the comic before the show, though, so RTD had the suggestion that if they did it, they could have a whole story with the Doctor in mid-regeneration, his head spewing out light the way Dormammu has flames wrapped around his head.

I enjoy talking about the show, and learning things about the show that I didn't know about. The Doctor first came to my eyes while being a kid in the 80's watch the 4th Doctor on PBS, and I was hooked from that point on. The cool thing is now, I have kids, and they now have Doctor Who to watch. My daughter, who is 7, was drawing a week ago the TARDIS! I looked at it, laughed with awe, and asked her, the you draw yourself with the Doctor? She said yes, and I told her that when I was around her age that I did the same thing! LOL Awesome show, awesome fans. Nuff said.

fuck my life... I thought two doctors might be good, great to see Mr. Troughton again but damn if there was virtually no interaction between the two docs.. Timelash is a neat concept but a badly revised script. ugh.. colin is fine, it's just the stories and scripts of that first season of his starts off decent, then plummets... by the time you get to revelation of the daleks it actually feels like a revelation to get a decent story again...

so it's obvious that I've been watching the colin baker era, and I've noticed that quite often the script calls for the Doctor's pomposity to reveal itself when dealing with Peri and one of the many common barbs is that she is American.. at one point he mocks her use of the English language, as if he is offended by her use of "zee" instead of "zed."
(doctor, hi, you're not actually British, you're galifreyan)
Other times he is calling her a "typical American" for the way she acts (which is, frankly, no different than any other companion, British or Alzarian.)
Another thing that is offensive is Nicola Bryant's accent, honestly wtf kind of accent is that and where is she supposed to be from in America exactly? What is the point of having her character be from USA if she can't even sound like it.....!?
According to Colin Baker in one of the DVD extras, JNT had Davison's Doctor wear crickety cricket stuff because they were exporting the show to the states and "the british aspect helped it sell" --why then years later do you make it a point to mock and ridicule the states?

.... need you to understand there was no disrespect intended.
There was also no disrespect intended to this forum.
To all of you who supported us to return (and a shout out to carratacuspotts....!) I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
For those of you who aimed negative comments towards me during this DocBack, I shall try my hardest not to piss you off any further. Please extend the same courtesy.
Pogue, Horn, Gland, notspock- you are princes among men.
MOV- no sir, I don't hold a grudge, and am happy to move on from this. No, I did not insult you nor call you names, nor act like a troll as I have been accused of on this TB, nor am superior to any of you as I have also been accused of. (and not by yourself, absolutely not!).
I shall remain here as long as I am invited.
MOV- I am sincerely glad that you are back here.

-MOV is the Moff (see my expansion of this theory in a previous docback)
-RTD's sole purpose in resurrecting the show was to push his global gay agenda, to tear down the entrenched heterosexual culture that's been established and replace it with a culture of Homosexuality and Camp.
-Sylvester McCoy single handedly destroyed Doctor Who, he was in fact the person who was responsible for canceling. He is a horrible actor/person/doctor and his appearance in the TV Movie probably did more damage than special guest star Eric Roberts.

However you feel about the show treating 'Americans' badly in the past, I think you'd have to agree that things have changed for the better now! And believe me, trips back and forth to the States for the cast and crew are not cheap. And that's not just for filming over there, but also to attend events like Comic Con and chatshows to promote the show. All of that comes out of the promotions budget and I think it's beginning to pay off now. America is definitely a territory that still needs to be conquered as far as general awareness of the show is concerned, but I think it's definitely on the right path and you'll continue to see the show's presence over there for the next year or two.

I think you've opened up a rather large can of worms by saying 'Sylvester McCoy single handedly destroyed Doctor Who, he was in fact the person who was responsible for canceling.' What facts can you give to back that up? I know Sylvester was the Doctor when the show was cancelled back in '89, but to say he is 'single handedly' responsible for that is rather surprising. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that and what the rest of the Docbackers have to say to that too. Good luck!

Took my young niece last week. You can't take photos in the interactive section of the experience (the tour). That was great fun, especially for the kids that were there (the niece is 8 years old, and loved it). One or two places where I would tweak the interactive section, but that's just me..apparently, I have some form of OCD because I insisted we looked at the various Doctor costumes in the correct order. Well, that's what the inlaws claimed when she told them.
The exhibition bit is great too. Lots of stuff to take pics of (I took over 100), some interactive bits n pieces, Monsters and costumes.
Finally, the tat...errr gift shop. It was a bit pricey, but there was some decent tat there. One thing they have, which I'm surprised v'shael didnt mention (assuming they had it at when he went) is an exclusive limited edition Amelia Pond figure..only available at the experience and ebay (in her little wooly hat and duffel coat with her little suitcase), so if anyone planning to go to it is a collector of figures, watch out for it.I thought the scene back in the 11th hour of Amelia packing her case and going to wait in the garden for the doctor to return wonderful, so although i dont collect figures
I bought the basic ticket so I had some spare cash to get the niece a silver pckage ticket. The silver, and by extension gold tickets, are worth the extra..they come with a goodie bag which has contents greater than the extra cost of the ticket.

that post was made with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. and what is this about Sly McCoy being in The Hobbit? I hated LOTR movies (never read the books) but I have a rule about seeing anything with a doctor in it..
(Thank you Eccleston for making me watch GI JOE... good grief)

I quite enjoyed his Doctor... it was the stories and the BBC's lack of interest that killed Who in the 80s... don't blame McCoy (Who I've heard is a lovely man in person... anyone had the priviledge of meeting him?)

Firstly and most importantly, VERY glad to have you back....
While you are here- and on the subject of Americans in Doctor Who- was (to the best of your knowledge) Mark Shepphard's character being called "Canton" Delaware a nod to the actor's appearance in Firefly?

I was a wee bit worried to see that you'd left the Docback, and I'm relieved to see you back again. We both love the show too much to leave this forum. I've greatly valued the opinions of everyone here, and that most certainly includes you, and although I might not always agree (or understand) everything that is said, we all have different ways of seeing things. Sometimes it's frustrating for me reading things based on 'facts' that are taken from newspapers and websites when I know them to be utter falsehoods. Makes me tear my hair out in fact! Regarding the 2012 schedule, I really wasn't trying to cause a shit-storm in here, I was just looking for honest feedback from genuine and knowledgeable fans. As it stands, there will be a full schedule for 2012, but as always, things are subject to change, especially at such a large corporation as the BBC, and the landscape is always shifting. Experience has taught me that it's always good to have plans B to Z prepped and ready to go should plan A fail. And to all those who *still* believe that the BBC isn't fully behind the show, please, please, please believe that they are! I haven't a clue why anyone would think otherwise! It's a ratings hit, it's expanding into other territories and it generates large amounts of money. The BBC might be a lot of things, but it knows when it's onto a good thing. Doctor Who isn't going anywhere in the near future. Sure, 'The Moff' could leave at some point in the future and the show may lose it's way after that, but while he's at the helm, you all have someone who loves the show just as much as you (if not more) fighting to keep it right where it is - at the top.

I'm not saying it was ever actually "Anti-American" I was trying to parody people who over exaggerate things on here, the internet, or life in general these days.. anyways, I've only noticed it really during the Colin Baker/Perpegillium era, and it's just kind of cringe-worthy at times... Peri's gratingly fake accent doesn't help either..
that being said, I have been a fan of the show since it appeared on PBS when I was young. I have a Great Uncle that lives in Yorkshire who visited us when I was younger and I talked with him about Doctor Who.. He, of course, had seen it but wasn't necessarily a fan, but of course knew about Tom Baker, his scarf, etc.
Years later the show came back, and he had called my mom to talk. He remembered how much I loved WHO and how it was returning.. Of course with the internet and vast informational resources out there, I already knew this.. but I thought it was pretty cool to remember and to pass a message along to me about its return!
the power of WHO knows no boundaries, through neither time nor space.

Aw common, would you really have wanted to miss out on a classic Eccleston overacting display? Though I must say, his use of a scottish accent had me wondering if the casting people didn't hire a different doctor than they'd intended...

I'll assume this was also said 'tongue in cheek' and knowing that, your post reads much differently now, so I shan't respond to that comment! Maybe we need some kind of codeword or something for being sarcastic? We've already had enough crossed wires in here without more trouble! Anyway, welcome to the Docback hideo kojima!

as a fan of the cartoon and toy line in the 80s I pretty much thought the movie was awful. However, Eccleston made it awesome. It was like a delicious HAM sandwich.. Will he be returning as Destro in the sequel?
so far the best 'movie with a doctor in it' so far is Withnail & I. Anyone who hasn't been fortunate to see it should definitely do so. It's now streaming on Netflix--go watch it!

I can neither confirm nor deny that his name was based on a specific Firefly episode or reference, but it's one hell of a coincidence, isn't it?! Maybe that'll be officially answered at some point in the future via a DVD commentary or something similar? Just saying...

Yes, I've met him.
Back in 1992.
He was crazy cool and had an all night drinking-pool party with Craig Charles right outside of my hotel room at WhoosierCon II.
I didn't go to the party, but a friend and I were up all night talking, and we would every so often look out the door and listen. I was on the 2nd floor, the pool on the first right outside of my room.
He was quite the comedian. He couldn't keep a straight face when taking pictures.
Sophie Aldred was video-taping the convention goers.
Craig Charles had a cigarette burn on his forehead; the night before the convention he was out on the town, at a bar, got drunk, and someone used his head as an ashtray.
But nothing beat the Peter Davison and Colin Baker antics at Visions 93. They were making jokes at each other at who is better. The second day of it, Peter had a hangover, and though he enjoyed the continuation of it, he also asked people to be a bit quieter about it...

And yes, I will state my views of things, but I hope people know it is not intended to be an insult. I also know Sam doesn't intend to -- unless provoked and I mean really provoked. So, good to know no one has thin skin.

withnail, apart from being a masterpiece, is the best movie with 2 doctors in it. Richard E Grant played the Dr in "Doctor Who and the Curse of the Fatal Death" (it was a short film for a charity telethon we have in blighty, called red nose day/ comic relief). Although there are doubts as to how canon it is. apart from anything else, the 13th doctor in this was played by Joanna Lumley

Do you believe that with the way events are unfolding on the series, before it's all said and done, that we the viewers will be revisiting the library from Silence in the Library? With the word "Silence" in the title of that episode, was that word a double meaning of what would come later in the series, or just "be quiet in a library"? I am just curious.

He played the Doctor twice. He was also the Doctor in Scream of the Shalka (granted, it was an animated story on the web instead of being live action, but it should count as much as The Curse of Fatal Death)

Here's the way I view it...
1. Rowan Atkinson was/is/will be the Doctor in an alternate timeline.
2. When he "regenerated" he actually had a wibby wobbly timey wimey metacrisey and he is trapped in a time vortex--the doctors you see afterwards (Richard E. Grant included) are figments of his mind extrapolated from the vortex and projected--they are not REAL*
3. Years later The Master discovers the truth about what happened to The Doctor and encountered his mind within The Matrix
4. The Master succeeds in melding his mind with The Doctors, but a security backup in The Matrix causes the two to merge. This paradox causes a time rift and The DoctorMaster is thrown back into the times of the Crusades and good King Richard
5. The DoctorMaster becomes Black Adder, and the two sides fight for consciousness. The Master, being the stronger personality, has control until The Doctor builds up enough strength to "time jump" to another era.
*this is to make certain Hugh Grant is never The Doctor

yep..I did forget the animated shalka.
and I agree...Hugh Grant shouldn't be allowed near Dr Who.I'm not altogether sure he should even be allowed to watch it....
I do think Grant would make a fantastic canon Dr.
He is on my wishlist , along with Bill Nighy, Art Malik( I think he would be quite brilliant) and Rhys Ifans (although I think Ifans is perfect for De Carabas in neverwhere).

My knowledge of classic Who isn't great but correct me if I'm wrong here - Susan basically left to settle down with her man, came back for a special without him and hasn't been seen since, right?
I know Nu-Who has hinted that The Doctor's family is all dead but can anyone think of any indications that she might be alive somewhere? I know "The Woman" in The End of Time is believed to be The Doctors mother but I guess it could be Susan. I only ask because I think it's about time the character was brought back, especially with the 50th anniversary coming up.

...things are far more brighter here with you posting, don't ever dare leave on my account!
Look, if you want to discuss things offline, I have no problems with Merrick giving you my private e-mail account and you contacting me through that.
I have no ill will or hard feelings towards you at all. I don't find you annoying or wish you weren't here; quite the contrary, and I don't mind explaining to you privately just how bad I felt at your decision to leave here.
I would appreciate that chance as I can fully explain myself without the risk of *CERTAIN* individuals (and they fucking well know who they are!!!!!!!) sticking their comments in with no clue as to how I feel or who I am, or what makes me tick, and pretending that I am things I am certainly not.
This forum is marvelous on so many levels that sometimes my passion for it gets the better of me.
My profession in life also has a huge effect on how I speak and act. Most is without malice... hornorsilk has the exact measure of me, and for someone I have never met (and would relish the chance to if only to pick his HUUUGE brain) that is very rare indeed.
In short, don't go anywhere soon. You make this forum far too enjoyable to go without. And I mean that with every fibre of my being.

I haven't gotten to use the word 'jape' in a while, and the word seems like one that Robert Holmes would take pleasure in, so thank you for allowing me the opportunity to use the word again.
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Of course, I may have opened a can of worms because now we'll have nominations for the Saward Imitation Double Act, and the Pip and Jane 'Catharsis of Spurious Morality' Baker nominations for talkbackers with the longest and most spurious dialog.

vadakinx - the last 'official' thing about Susan was in The Five Doctors, though the character has shown up in an EDA by John Peel (trust me, you really don't need to go read it) and in some of the Big Finish audios. There was a radio program 'Whatever Happened to Susan Foreman', but I don't think that that counts as canon either.
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From the comments by Eccleston's Doctor (and the ones after) I think we can take it as a given that Susan died, or at least the Doctor thinks she's dead. If the Daleks had found out about her being on Earth, they'd probably have hunted her down out of spite and as a ploy to lure the Doctor out.

OK, now I'm even more excited than I was. Thanks, MoV!
Only Dr Who can reach through the jaded forty-something exterior and give the kid inside (who is, of course, hiding behind the sofa) a good old rattling.
I can't wait!
And Sam, glad to see you back. The way these DocBacks are conducted is what led me to post in the first place. As Biggus Dickus said, gentlemen all.

..but there is very little to go on as to what happened to her.
She is stated to have settled down and had kids, been part time lord, not been part time lord, been a grandaughter of the "other" who maY OR NOT be the doctor, be a decendant of Rassilon...
Oh who knows with her????
I think because she called Hartnell Grandfather we've assumed alot of things.
Oh where is Hornorsilk when I need him?????

And for the record, Robert Holmes I love with a passion....
..a man full of mickle might!!!!!!
I have a photo somewhere of me posing in Baker Street, complete with deerstalker and pipe.... it's not particularly good, but my friend Sue and her partner Natasha could hardly keep the camera still!!! (p.s- they both are Doctors and they both used to work in Harley Street....... cows!!!!)

No snark there - honestly: exactly how much damage can a Timelord's corporeal form take before the regeneration doesn't? Where is regen bred - in the heart or in the head? How begot? How nourished?
When I think about it, they've never really gone into it before because of the restrictions of TV. Actor lies down, swimmy lines, new actor gets up. Now they shoot off like St Elmo, but timeline is quick. The question is, does it have to be? We know he can regenerate severed limbs several hours after the regen is finished; a little burn damage is surface stuff compared to pixie-dusting the metacarpals on out in a matter of seconds.
... and, we saw a boat burning. We saw a body. We saw a boat, conveniently left ashore. We saw a guy come driving up with a convenient can of gasoline.
A can he was told to bring. By 'the victim.'
Now, I suspect if I had a gal or fella out there under water in an astronaut costume, and knew what was supposed to happen when, I could probably rig a Houdini and have the corpus removed from below while the fire is above.
In any case, idle musing...

Welcome back to both of you - with utmost sincerity, humility, and respect.
Quite frankly, I can't imagine (and would never wish to experience) our Docbacks without either of you. Your voices are both...beyond integral. You're an essential part of a fabric...a complexion...that sets our Dockbacks apart from anywhere else on the Net (that I know of, at least).
That you're both participating once more speaks volumes of you individually, and (I hope) this can also be seen as a testament to the underlying strength of the unassuming little community we've established here. I've been doing intensive Internet work for nearly 17 years now - and I can honestly say that the group we have here, on the whole, is truly unique and uncommon. It's wonderful to count you both as a part of it.
So, with a tip of the hat...onward...

As a lifelong Who fan I've seen a bit of every Doctor (my formative years being late Tom Baker/early Davison). Now I feel an urge to go back and watch from the beginning but with budgetary restraints being what they are......
So what I really want to know is: From the episodes available on DVD, which Hartnell ones are considered the best. I look forward to your responses because you chaps & chapesses really are the ones to ask. I've seen some B&W Who but need to expand my knowledge.
Also: Thinking of getting a Seal of Rassilon Tattoo! What do you think?

I'm a tremendous fan of the original PLANET OF THE APES films - feared this new picture would flounder pointlessly without the weight of edgy social commentary that made the original films relevant.
Saw it this morning.
The social commentary has, indeed, been more or less stripped out of RISE - but it has been replaced with genuine and sometimes difficult emotion, an astonishing MoCap performance by Andy Serkis, and more tie-ins/nods to tits progenitor pictures that you'd expect.
If you get a chance to check it out...you may find yourself as surprised as I was.
Just had to get that out. Jumping back on topic now.

I only follow the docbacks sporadically (to my shame) so apologies if this has already been covered.
The premiere of LKH is at the Filmhouse Edinburgh on 26th August, and tickets are surprisingly cheap. Unfortunately it clashes with a prior engagement
so I'm somewhat gutted but thought I'd share.
Oh, and outstanding stuff on here gents.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see that I'm correct. ;-)
Also- was there ever an official statement (haven't bought season 5 dvds yet) about the whole River Song/ Reversing naming thing or was that just "coincidence"
And still on the subject of names and a certain cancelled way before it's time TV show- ... I don't suppose that there is a link between the naming of River Song and River Tam- I just realised the ending of "Day of the Moon" with River's somewhat balletic violence reminded me somewhat of the ending of Serenity, and that those two characters have a certain similarity in terms of their both being raised to be weapons...

I was thinking about the Cushing films, and it occured to me that maybe the best approach to doing a feature would be to mirror that
don't worry about the shows continuity, and just remake a classic episode/story on a bigger budget
I was actually thinking the smartest thing they could would just be to make a feature film version of BLINK
That story works fine for non-who fans as a horror film, and it's doctor-light, which means they could sort of sneak up the doctor on non-fans, if the film was a big hit, they could do a doctor heavy sequel since everyone would already be onboard with the concept
I'm saying this more from a financial strategy stand point
as a geek I would prefer a huge epic that ties directly into the show and fuck all the non-believers
but that is a much riskier approach.

This is now my one stop Doctor Who site. Thanks to SJW, DocTom, MOV, v'shael for making the talkback a place that makes other Who fans feel welcomed, and for making the place non-chaotic like the other AICN talkbacks. On a sidenote, sorry my handle name sucks, please forgive me.

I agree, it is good film. It is nearly an epic in its own right. I did think there are social commentaries, but of a different kind, with it. Not _as much_ as the original, but it is still there. I think it is the second best of all Ape films, with Planet of the Apes (original) being the best (for obvious reasons). But I think it's my favorite movie of the year. I don't think everyone will agree with that sentiment but there are reasons why I like it as much as I do... at least on first viewing.

Personally, for me it is all about the quality, not the quantity. Sure, more is always good, but better is always better, even if there's less of it.
As such, if we got less episodes in 2012, as a lead in to a huge Who Anniversary year in 2013, I personally wouldn't have a big problem with that, just so long as the episodes that we did get in 2012 were the best that they could be, and kept that Who momentum and excitement factor high, with very little 'filler' or wasted opportunities.
I think one of the big things is, if you are going to produce less Who one year, then that less has to be of a generally higher quality overall, and be even more satisfying than normal, in order to balance everything out, and reduce the liklihood of fans feeling ripped off by the whole thing. Smaller slices need to taste better, or else you leave fans with the feeling of missing out. So you have to make it feel like a series of special treats, rather than starvation rations of the same old same old, if that makes any sense.
My thoughts on the matter anyhow.

The first Doc used to call her his granddaughter. While the show has dipped into some lowbrow business (the infamous Love and Monsters fellatio joke, anyone?) I don't think that they'd ever go with the Doctor calling his former lover his grandchild.
Also, I'm still reeling about the implied Doctor threesome joke that River made in "Good Man Goes To War". I wonder how that works with the Blinovitch Limitation Effect?

Thanks to all of you for the warm welcome back for myself and Sam, you're a dandy bunch that's for sure! And to the observant Docbacker (too exhausted to hunt down exactly who it was - forgive me!) who connected the train/pyramid and the line from the end of The Big Bang - I'm not saying it's significant, but it just goes to show that as a group, you really don't miss much, do you? It could be nothing more than pure coincidence though, but keep joining those dots! And with that, I must depart for the evening! 'Night all!

For monsters there are a few I think are worthy of revisiting, but I think I'd have to go with the Zygons in a pinch, although the whole bodysnatcher motif might be a bit overplayed after the Gangers now. If so, I'd also like to see an updated take on the Ice Warriors, or perhaps the Draconians.
As for previous Doctors, it has to be McGann. The guy deserves more than being the George Lazenby of Doctor Who, and with all the issues they may have faced, even the likes of Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Chris Eccleston at least still got a chance to really stamp themselves on the role. The audios are great and all, but I'd love to see McGann get the chance for a bit for face-time as The Doctor.
In regards to past companions, part of me eally wants to see The Doctor return to the Gallifrey of the past in some way, and encounter Leela (and K-9 mk.1 - screw that horrible spinoff), and Ace, and see what became of them both. I also think Romana (and yet another K-9) returning from E-Space has some serious potential. And in that case, they can either bring back Lalla Ward, or cast a new actress in the part...or both. Of course the return of Susan would also have some interesting possibilities. And that's what such things ultimately should be decided upon I think, the story potential that lies in any such revisits.
As for other villains, I think it is time for Simm otregenerate into a new Master, one that is hopefully a little less over the top. Omega, The Valeyard, hell, even The Rani or the Time Meddler could all have new stories worth telling too. Just as long as we don't go all 'past villain of the week' all of a sudden, as JNT proved back in the day, that kind of thing tends to get old pretty quickly.
My rambling thoughts on the matter anyhow.

He has said as much in the past. Part of him would actually love to play The Doctor, but it would have to be his own version, as anything else would be a cheapening of what his father did on the show in his view. Mind you, he also thinks that he'd never be offered the role in a million years regardless, so...
Now his views may have since changed, Who knows, but that was always his stance previously. And I gotta say, I kind of agree with him. I think he'd make a great Doctor, but only as a new incarnation, as to get him to simply try and mimic his father would seem a bit...mercenary to me personally.

Trying not to seem like I'm ignoring anyone here, so here's a few more bits and bobs before I go. Submitting scripts - do so via your agent and there's always a chance, not a big chance, but you never know! Doctor Who *and* Sherlock together in a Docback - now *that* will make my head explode. I'll stick to Doctor Who in here if you don't mind! Quality of the episodes dipping - not going to happen *EVER*! Any reduction in the number of episodes will not equate to a reduction in the quality too. Each episode is treated with tender loving care by each and every staff member working on the show. Personal emails to Merrick and SJW - as much as I'd love to contact you both, I must politely decline. I tried a similar thing on another website who 'accidently' published one of my personal email addresses and it didn't go well. The website apologised and blamed it on a glitch on their site, but the damage was done. I no longer use that email address and am using the email address of a computer savvy friend to log into this very website as a safety measure. A return of The Library/Canton/Captain Jack - no plans right now but certainly not impossible. I'm sure I've missed more questions, but I think that'll do for now. Really, really, really must retire to my bed now!

I figured it was a long shot, but worthwhile to ask. i don't have official representation, but had an idea recently I thought would make for an intrigue Who episode, so I figured I'd check and see if it was worthwhile or not to send it in.

Only counting what is already on dvd, I'd have to go with the following as being essential:
The Beginning boxed set - That'll get you the very first Who story, An Unearthly Child, the very first Daleks story, The, um, Daleks, and the trippy Edge of Destruction. Some quality viewing there, and the boxed set is pretty damn cheap these days from places like Amazon. In fact most of the Hartnell era stuff can be found pretty cheaply, at least if you are ordering in the UK.
I'd also recommend grabbing the single dvd releases of The Daleks Invasion of Earth and The Time Meddler.
If you find that you quite enjoy those then perhaps check out The Aztecs, and the boxed set The Rescue/The Romans as well, as they are all quite good little stories too, at least in my opinion.
My suggestions anyway. Happy viewing.

Yep, have to agree, great character. But then I've long been a fan of Mark Sheppard, and have enjoyed him on pretty much everything I've seen him on in the past few years - Supernatural, 24, Leverage, Battlestar Galactica, Warehouse 13, Chuck, Firefly, Burn Notice, Dollhouse - and yes, now Doctor Who as well. The man always brings the quality.
It was also extra cool that they cast his legendary character actor dad, William Morgan Sheppard, to play the older version of Canton as well.
I'd love to see both versions (and both actors) on Who again.

And much fun it was too. Yep, that over-used ballad is still as grating as ever, but everything else is quite good fun, Hartnell himself is teriffic, and I forgot just how good Anthony Jacobs was as Doc Holliday too. Just a damn fun western romp, despite the body count and the fact that the companions were largely sidelined.
People keep giving me guns. I do wish they wouldn't...

... in this Docback always makes me feel good. I don't think Merrick is off the mark when he says that we are something unique on all the internet. Such camaraderie and fun discourse is something to be proud of.

T'was I that mentioned the train, pyramid and Egyptian Goddess from The Big Bang. So thanks for mentioning it....
Also... when you spell your initials out like I did in my tagline and say it out loud it in a cockney accent it sounds like 'Moff' .. 'The Mov, eh guvnah?'.. See!? I don't miss anything!!! Hahahaha!

when the big bang ended, that sounded like a perfect premise for a Dr. Who adventure.
I really liked A christmas carol, it even utilized a horror idea I came up with years ago, air-sharks or 'shAIRks' as I call them
way scarier than normal water sharks, but i must admit I was disappointed it was the adventure that the end of the big bang teased

Actually it's probably the 10 pints of Strongbow I have in my system that's the cause, but even so - this Docback starts as the Deja-Vu of yesterday's trailer Talkback, and now Suddenly MOV and SJW are back and chummy and it's like yesterdays tiff never happened. I'm glad for that - we all love the show, albeit different bits of it, but there's nothing to come to blows over.
Anyway, since I'm drunk, I have a story for you.
I grew up on Doctor Who, it was just always there. My first TV memory was the cactus headed bloke from (Tom Baker story, cider has erased the title - close to the end of his run though). Scared the bejeezus out of me. Anyway, it was just there - I didn't love it, because why would I? I was just part of growing up, and then it was gone (obviously some time passed there). No Who! I didn't know how much I liked it until it was gone! Actually I *still didn't know. More time passed, I went to university like a spotty swot and drank a lot (more than tonight).
One day I was coming home from a lecure (sober, amazingly) when I saw a dalek. An actual dalek trundling down the street! weaving in and out of traffic! I shat myself. I mean really - who expects that at 2:15 in the afternoon - in Hull of all places. Terrified I was! Clearly it was a man in a Dalek thingy (suit? costume? exo-suit?), but it still knocked me for six. Suddenly the fact that I wasn't seeing Doctor Who hit home to me. Tragic!
Then some bugger says he's bringing it back (later still mind). It's got Chris Ecclestone as the Doctor (I like him!) and it's being made in Wales. Nope, not going to watch it! I'm Welsh! Nothing good comes out of Wales!
I put it off. "Its good" say the reviews. Clearly they're mad - it's made in Wales.
Eventually I give in - I start watching with the wife on Netflix (I live in the US by this point). I'm drawn because that Moffat fella wrote some episodes, and he did Coupling, which is pretty damn funny.
The rest is obvious (watched the whole thing). My wife fell in love with C.E. and then said "I'll hate the new fella!" "No," says I "You won't." Because I'd been there before, and you always love the new fella - not more, not less, but differently from the last. Doctor Who was back - life was as it should be.
I don't love Doctor Who, any more than I love my right big toe - it's just that it should be there, and it's always been there, and it's always been *right ;) And loosing it would be pretty terrible, even though it wouldn't effect important stuff, like how much I can quaff.
I don't care if there are fewer episodes in 2012 and more in 2013, or if the BBC decide that both need equal standing or if 2013 just needs a butt ton of cash given to it because it's 50 bloody years old. Just as long as it's there, and I don't have to trim the nail!
That's all I have - yay booze, yay Doctor Who, and yay for kiss and makeup (See what I did there?) because I like MOV and SJW both.
Bed now - More DW Docbacks and booze tomorrow...
Oh, but since I'm here (and drunk), have a gander at this - http://draw-board.blogspot.com/2011/06/impossible-amy-pond.html
I may need to clarify this tomorrow, but if you don't care I forgive you in advance :)

Maybe we ought to stage a blow-out semi-annually, just so we can have the make-up cuddles in here.. ~Grin~
Seriously, nice to see the camaraderie on high - we've got a year of thin pickins coming up, and I'd hate to see this become the online equivalent of Hitchcock's "Lifeboat."
Anyway, as to anti-Americanism (and I've said it before), I just don't see it.
I learned something yesterday: in slave-holding America, there was a dance called a "cakewalk." The slaves started it, and the plantation owners used to go down and judge the competitions, and the winner... would take the cake.
Interestingly, the Cakewalk was, in fact, a deliberate satire of the high flown dances of Southern High Society. The plantation owners, in their arrogance, missed the point entirely.
And, perhaps, so it may be with Anti-Americanism in DW and other British programming. What could they say? We're militaristic? Welll... yeah... but we're Very good at it. That we use a hammer, where a scalpel would do? Hey - you wanted a hole - there it is. ~grin~ We're pretty well deserving of any gentle jibes thrown our way, and frankly (at least from my POV) arrogant enough to be somewhat proud of most of the accusations, as long as they aren't overly antagonistic.
The question comes down to intent. And I have never felt anything but the loving poke of a brother from the British people. To take offense at such gentle jibes is a little too jingoistic for my tastes.

Now we're all back together again I guess I don't need to go become an anagram of MOV after all. Which is a shame because Veteran Of Mu sounded pretty cool.
Anyway here's some odds & sods to discuss.
On Area 52 in the new Trailer, that Pyramid is much smaller than the one at Giza. I noticed because I just helped my child build a scale model of same. Also the original Great Pyramid was finished on the outside with smooth white limestone. Nevertheless the model maker has made the angles the same as the Khufu pyramid - which is very distinctive in that it has knowledge of Pi encoded in the angles.
On that same subject, Rudolf Gantenbrink has used the measurement errors of the builders to prove that the makers of the Khufu pyramid did not know Pythagoreas's Theorem. Since no spacetime-faring civilization could possibly be ignorant of same I earnestly hope that this bastard child of Area 51 and Khufu is not suggesting otherwise ...
And ... please, no external ramps! Google Jean-Pierre Houdin for reasons why not. Also, please, no sharpening of razor blades. Mythbusters busted that one.
V'Shael in your list at scene 30 - have you not noticed that that puppet is dressed exactly like the Doctor?
And ... was that minotaur also wearing an eyepatch?

She calls the Doc "Grandfather" but we never know if this is meant literally. There are so many possibilities there story-wise.
Perhaps a current version of the Doc takes her back to him as a child to raise knowing she will have a good life?

Well, if you (like me) accept the Big Finish audios as canon (unless they specifically contradict something and there is no way you can find the BF audios exist in a time being rewritten universe), Susan was indeed the Doctor's granddaughter. She also had a son, who the Doctor wanted to have as his heir and said if he died, his great-grandson got his TARDIS. He also had more Gallifreyan DNA in him then he should have -- which has not yet been explained -- but it is clear he has the DNA as does Susan, so it's all indeed in the family. The ending of the 8th Doctor/ Susan sequence is tragic and can lead directly into the Time War; the Doctor is that shaken up.
Her four audios are:
An Earthly Child
Relative Dimensions
Lucie Miller
To the Death
However, Lucie Miller's story is much longer and connects to the whole tragedy at the end. I don't think you need to listen to her whole story but just need to know, she was real close to the Doctor, then felt betrayed, left him, joined in with the Monk not knowing the Monk was evil, was almost killed by the Monk, got rescued by the Doctor, and then wasn't sure what she wanted to do. The Doctor convinced her to have a Christmas celebration with him, which leads to Relative Dimensions where she is introduced to his family... and the story goes on from there.

...that thing is clipping along at a rate of knots (nautical terminology completely out of context by jove!!) and would have one hell of a time stopping!
Also, it looks far too long (the train) to be able to simply turn around in there so I guess we HAVE to presume it's headed out into parts unknown.
Does this mean that the pyramid is some kind of portal from one time line to another, and leads to all different places?

.....the shot of Winston Churchill holding the gun- I'm guessing that Mr Churchill is a little bit of a rotten apple here, as he is in his Holy Roman Emperor guise in a FUBAR time line. A quick glance to his right (our left) and the shoulder of a bloke in a toga is clearly visible.
Just what causes him to turn out like this (time line aside) could be anyones guess, but my guess would be "power."
And who could he be pointing the gun at? The Doctor?

But I still wonder what if Hitler is the real big bad of the season? That would be funny in so many ways.
And I really, really wish the Minotaur is a Nimon. I mean, why not? If you are doing a Minotaur, might as well connect it to the show's past.

1) How does Korvarian know this? Does she set it up?
2) If so, does the Doctor swerve turn her and place something inside the suit she is NOT expecting?
3) How early on in part 2 does this happen? The line would suggest episode 7 and then allow it to unfold across the remaining 5. Also the background looks very 30's -ish.

...my own thought pattern around this scene is more one of the introduction to Churchill in his new guise as Holy Roman Emperor, and to set the scene of him being one awful power crazed bastard. So it would have to happen pretty early on (pre-opening credits?) in order to do that.

Apparently, there is supposed to be a creature that goes forwards and backwards in time to fix people that have done great acts of wrong (uuggh! horrible use of the queens english there...)
What if it's THAT which is responsible for trying to bump off hitler and the Doc and co stop it from happening?
Also, in an aborted time line, what if it is THAT which is trying to kill Churchill, and he has it's number????
Interesting!!!!!

This episode is to do with a hotel-labyrinth filled with peoples nightmares, including those of the Docs.
The nightmares here can kill you, and others are trapped inside also.
The weeping angels make an appearance, so why NOT the Nimon?
However, I am more inclined to think that the labyrinth setting harks back to greek mythology.

Yes, it is likely it harks back to Greek mythology, but I still say, it should be a Nimon. It really should.
So far the best Nimon story is Paul Cornell's Seasons of Fear. I loved what he did with the Nimon. They would work as a killer big bad for this season, if they wanted to really do something crazy. Imagine the Nimon rising up to being a top-tier Who villain? It could be done... [hint, in Seasons of Fear, they create an alternative time line in which they defeated the Time Lords!]

so how exactly does this work? I thought we were all under the assumption that the Doctor accidentally saving Hitler is what causes the alternate time line (would only make sense from a physics standpoint, no?) but what are we to make of this new Holy Roman Empire..
I can't quite get a grip... if things were like OUR history but then got messed up, then why would their be a holy roman empire, wouldn't Churchill want to reclaim the glory of the British Empire?
let's not forget the Rome being run by the fascist party and a part of the axis powers... what about the church of england, etc.
what countries/territories are part of this holy roman empire? would russia and america allow churchill to do this? the mind boggles..

I simply meant that having one eye or whatever wouldnt be enough to disable whatever effect the silence has, seeing as there were plenty of partially blind people in that era who would have all been deemed crazy for seeing things no one else did.
Also, the picture of the alien on the inside of the eye patch is a good idea, but truth is you cant focus on something that close to your eye, and especially without any light bleeding in there....

Check out this link (spoilers, AND SOME MIGHTY BIG ONES) are contained within.
It also confirms that the airdate for the last Who before Xmas will be October 1st.
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2011/07/doctor-who-steven-moffat-previews-lets-kill-hitler-opening-talks-breaking-tradition.html
Don't say i didn't warn you.
Please have the courtesy that if discussing anything contained within or theorising any of it, to put it in your subject box so as not to spoil for those who want to remain untatinted.
Thanks for the consideration!!!

The historical Hitler committed suicide after General Steiner failed to act on his orders in the Battle of Berlin. But in the preview clip we see Hitler above ground thanking the Doctor, not down in the bunker a la Downfall.
Hitler was within days of defeat at that stage no matter what the Doctor might do - unless the Doctor happened to cause the success of the Nazi nuclear bomb program. Many details of that program are still classified, but I think such an event would be too dark a scenario even for Moffatt to contemplate.
There were at least 17 assassination attempts on Hitler during the course of the war and most likely we'll see the Doc accidentally scotch one of these. The most famous of these was Stauffenberg's time bomb in Wolf's Lair, but Moffatt might also pick on the 1939 time bomb that missed killing Hitler by 13 minutes because of a fog that forced him to change his travel plans.
In any case it's difficult to see how any of these events could cause a Holy Roman Emperor Churchill or adventures with pterodactyls and pyramids. I expect these events are associated with a later episode than #7.

Someone above mentioned Sutekh and The Osirians... damn! That was going to be my post to start the day (and technically it is) but some other mad genius beat me to it. They're the first thing I think of when I see a pyramid now and they'd be high up on my list of returning Who villains/creatures I'd like to see return.

Someone said they'd like to see an updated version of the Ice Warriors.... That could be cool. Although what would that put them in relation to 'The Flood' from 'The Waters Of Mars'? After all... water is just unfrozen Ice.

...what happens in one may not necessarily affect another.
Remember when things like Back to the Future 2 comparisons were being thrown about?
this might be it- that one single event that skewers time on a different tangent, and to resolve it all they simply have to go back in time to a lakeside in America and kill the man who started it all.

... the lovely Frozen, herself, send her warmest regards. She's been very busy with work and is, at present, in the middle of a large move into her new abode so she hasn't been able to grace us with her - always wonderful - presence. She sends her love and promises to join us again, soon!

I agree that saving Hitler won't be the universe shifting event either. You're right with the assumption that it will likely be from an assassination attempt or from the 'Monster' of the episode - the Telesektor? - or whatever it's called.... I'm too lazy this morning to hunt it down.

I have a book I thoroughly enjoyed called 'A Critical History Of Doctor Who On Television' by John Kenneth Muir.
Lots of interesting trivia. A full episode synopsis of every episode from the original series including history and commentary.
If nothing else it's a handy and sterling episode guide!
I've been going through it and marking off all the episodes I've watched and those completion marks are getting more and more prevelant. SO MUCH TO WATCH! (But so awesome!)
Next on my hitlist? 'The Androids of Terra'

And they have had all kinds of nods to them in the new series. Starting with "Christmas Invasion."
They are a noble-warrior race. Some can be a force for good. Some for evil. Which, of course, makes them multi-dimensional.

I seemed to remember it was "for a few hundred years," but I've only seen each episode only once. So I could remember it wrong.
Now, what if he isn't a ganger.
What if there are two real Doctors.
One from the old, destroyed universe. One from the new universe.

Re: contact. No worries *whatsoever*. Was merely trying to outreach circumstantially - to contain an apparently decaying situation on the Docbacks (which is now nicely resolved).
Re: your past 'accident.' That actually infuriates me on your behalf. What happened to you is the height of idiocy, thoughtlessness, and is so far off the "professionalism" meter that I can't begin to fathom it.
And, make no mistake, what happened to you was *not* a 'site glitch' or whatever - such matters are very much in control of human beings. So, someone either made a beyond-excusable mistake, or screwed you on purpose. Either way, though, I can fully understand how frustrating and infuriating that result must've been. Frankly, considering the fervency of the fan base your caution is very well placed.
Please, *please* note my emphasis that I am in no way expecting the following to happen - nor am I suggesting that it should. BUT...if you ever feel inclined to reach out...you have my guarantee as a gentleman, as a father,, as a writer, and as someone who's been working the Net for well over a decade that your communique would remain in the strictest of confidence. That it even happened would remain wholly unknown to the members of this forum (unless you request otherwise). It would remain altogether invisible and unmentioned to anyone else you may work with, and it would not even be discussed with AICN staff members (AICN staff is decentralized, and we tend to keep our professional connections more or less to ourselves in practice).
This policy, by the way, pertains to *everyone* and *anyone* who writes me - even someone who may or may not be Steven Moffat. Talkbackers, movie or TV stars, etc. Unless someone pointedly and expressly states that the content of a communique is stated for release, it exists is a realm of deafening silence in which only myself and the person on the other end of the keyboard can hear a conversation. Given that I have a tornadic four year old and a teenager who is learning to play electric guitar, I sometimes with I could TRONitize myself and exist in that realm of silence myself. But that's a different story.
**No reply to this post is needed or expected** by the way. Just wanted to assuage any misgivings you, or anyone else out there, may have about possible outreach at any time.

OK, now I know I'm just on my first cup of the day, but for the life of me I CAN NOT understand these two paragraphs. They aren't really spoilery - just damned near indecipherable:
''Deviating a bit to latest batch of "Doctor Who" episodes and the noticeable emphasis on larger storytelling, Moffat says that he doesn't want the show's decades worth of history to make it a tradition.
"Tradition is the enemy of suspense," he says. "It's the enemy of comedy. It's the enemy of everything... It will always push back towards the anthology model. We've just amped it up to see what would happen."''
It's times like this I wish Moff WAS MOV - he never leaves me confusticated. So, somebody help me translate this.
Is it
1) The decades of history and the traditional 4-6 part storylines are "the enemy?"
2) The series-long storylines are in danger of becoming "the enemy?"
3) The Anthology that everything gets pushed back to is "the enemy?"
4)All of them are "the enemy," since they are all, in their own turns, traditional DW storytelling, and we should look towards a 2012 Doctor Variety show, with Donny and Marie and special guest stars Shields and Yarnell?

Yes, it needs a new story. The audios have done a good one, but, there needs to be another one for the screen. In it, I would have half of the Ice Warriors fighting the other half, so as to show the two sides and to make it difficult to know which side is the good side in the story.
And Alpha Centauri would prove to live longer than Yoda.
I'm surprised RTD never did something with Alpha Centauri...

That monster I couldn't remember from 'Let's Kill Hitler'? And I was too lazy to look it up? It called the Tessalecta. The coffee un-lazied me.
Doesn't sound like a monster, though. Sounds like an 80's ska band.

The use of "wee" seems an interesting Scottish-ism, but maybe just a bit too arch and deliberate. Who else would know details of editing schedules then. A look at the production details shows no great continuity in the team, if we accept MOV is male. If he is. then I nominate Murray Gold as MOV.
Now, to track down that website email leak to nail the case!

Who MOV is or isn't, whether he's Male or female or venusian or martian really doesn't matter, any more than who you are or I am does.
If it wasn't for MOV's apparent inside line to the production aspects of Who we wouldn't even be raising the question of who they may be at all, and I don't think that inside line should change anything.
Of course it's fun to speculate, but if MOV wanted us to know then we already would - and I don't want our resident insider to leave us because we start getting to close to outing his/her real identity... I have no issue with you doing it, just raising the possibility that caution may be needed.
'Wee' by the way, while primarily Scottish, is used on occassion by those who aren't, so it's not much of an indicator of anything ;)

We've seen the Clerics in league with River & The Doctor before and nothing lead us to believe that they were anything but 'good'. What if we're being mislead and Kovarian isn't the 'baddie'... maybe she's in league with the Doctor of the Future... making it LOOK like she's trying to 'kill' him in order to make the universe think he's dead... or something... or nothing... I dunno... just some things that popped into my head when I was in the shower. Off to work. Have a lovely day.

Last night I watched EXPORTING RAYMOND, about Phil Rosenthal's efforts to set up a Russian version of EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND, the Emmy-winning U.S. sitcom he created.
This is very much about how two different cultures perceive storytelling and humor - how different elements are emphasized by different cultures, and the struggles each side faces when attempting to communicate...and interpret...'art.' And, to adding to all of these complications, good, old-fashioned show business and studio politics are constantly rearing their ugly and complex heads.
Fascinating stuff. Not *directly* related to DOCTOR WHO, but as cultural perceptions of entertainment sometime enter into our Docback discussions, I thought I'd mention this DVD/Blu-Ray.

Okay having followed Pogue's link that image does look familiar but I didn't know they were called Ice Warriors
I haven't seen any of the stories they've appeared in, although I noticed there were two stories when browsing Amazon this morning that had Peladon in the title, so I figured those might be worth checking out.
Based on what you guys have said, these do seem like a good candidate for returning in the new show

..... please reconsider before being invasive. Just place yourselves in his/her place and think how it would feel if you were unwantedly "probed.."
This is not an attack to anyone in specific, nor indeed an attack of any kind. Let's tread ever so gently..... we've seen the results when *someone* gets it ever so wrong.
Thanks all.

**Nicely** stated hqn & sjw.
No matter who he or she is, let's allow MOV room and respect. We're stronger and better with him/her and we should be understanding of his/her clearly delicate position - whether 'tis Moffat or not. I feel very, very strongly about this matter and deply appreciate your perspectives, SJW and HQN.

Rebel, there's going to be a Doctor Who novel out in a month written by Dan Abnett that will strongly feature the Ice Warriors. It will be in the hardback size (and price) of the Moorcock Doctor Who novel last year. That might be a place where you can get updated on them. If you live in England or can play region 2 DVD's, you could pick up the Revisitations 2 boxed set which includes the Troughton story The Seeds of Death (not to be confused with the Tom Baker story The Seed of Doom) which has the Ice Warriors in it. (I broke down and picked up the R2 version after Revisitations 2 came out when nothing from the first Revisitations set other than the McGann story was released in the US - now they've announced the remastered Talons of Weng Chiang). It had Seeds of Death, Carnival of Monsters (Pertwee) and Resurrection of the Daleks (Davison) in it, all remastered, so it's not a bad set to get if you can play it in your DVD player.
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As to the comment from Waters of Mars about UNIT recognizing Martians, it could be referring to Ice Warriors (in the novel The Dying Days, the last Doctor Who novel put out by Virgin and the only full story with the 8th Doctor they did, the Ice Warriors were in it), but they might not be referring to the Ice Warriors at all. Don't forget that the Pertwee story Ambassadors of Death involved the crew from Mars Probe Seven. UNIT was involved with that story, so the comment could be referring back to that instead of the Ice Warriors.
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I will say that I do like the Ice Warriors as a race, and would like to see them come back. I'd still prefer to see Zygons again, but as was noted above, with all the ganger stuff going on we'd probably want a break for a couple of years anyway before we have monsters that can look like other people. This might unfortunately mean we'd also have to wait on the Rutans, but not necessarily - I wouldn't mind seeing the Rutans appear in a story with the Sontarans. They've supposedly had the aeons-long war going on with them, so both races deserve to be seen in the same story on TV.

Do you remember a few months ago (a year ago?) when the AICN user base (emails and passwords) was "obtained" by some nefarious person(s)?
I was one of those security-lax fools who had the same email / password in more than one location, so my email was hacked, and from there 2 or 3 other accounts were compromised.
Now, it's all under the bridge but I was annoyed when AICN didn't even tell the users about the breach. If you're so certain another website couldn't possibly have a similar glitch, then I for one would love to know which human at AICN was responsible for that little technical snafu.
That said, I've had cause to email staff members in the past (including you) and I've certainly never had any trouble there.

Just a bit of a thought here;
When the whole Virtue thing gets revved up here on a biweekly basis, we tend to go through a series of theories followed by a series of "let it goes" (nothing wrong with that, guys - kudos for the Right Attitude, I love you)
But in the end, we still end up with a passle of posts on the topic that present themselves pretty regularly to Vertue that I'm pretty sure he'd rather not be dealing with.
Any way of simply deciding "NO HE'S NOT" across the board, regardless of knowledge, leave V be V, and either deleting the future inquiries and discussion, or simply having us locals agree to leave the first person who answers "No He's Not" do so alone without further fanfare or verbiage, encouraging further uncomfortable discussion about it?
About 20 miles from here is the original "Amityville Horror" house. You'll never find it, though. The locals have banded together to protect the community and current owners from lookie-loos and have a 'don't talk' policy.
It may be presumptive, but I would think the lower the profile of his situation is, the more comfortable V might feel to just fan out and kick his shoes off.

That comment that you listed make me think Valeyard or Dream Lord. (As an aside, has everybody seen Captain America yet? I particularly enjoyed seeing Toby Jones running around in the movie with a bow tie. Bow ties are cool. It made me wish even more that we get another story with him as the Dream Lord.)
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As for a creature that can travel through time and trying to take out the people who have caused great harm - maybe it's just because I saw the minotaur in the trailer and am having flashbacks to The Time Monster (heh, Nimon aren't the only minotaurs around in Who) and thought of the chronovores. It might be possible that they're messing up the timeline. Though, with the shot of the Weeping Angels in the trailer, we might find out that their ability to drop people into the past and eat their potential lives may also be responsible for causing the broken timeline.
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Now, I've been thinking about The Impossible Astronaut again because Madame Kovarian refers to 'an impossible astronaut', and am wondering what exactly makes the astronaut impossible. The one thing I keep getting fixated on is that he may be impossible because he's an older Doctor (older than the 1103 year old version - if that age wasn't a lie) killing his younger self. Who knows if we find out that the Doctor's burning corpse is rescued, stuck in the suit, given posthypnotic conditioning by the Silents and sent back to Lake Silencio (which I think is the lake that we saw in the 1st episode) to kill his younger self. This might be a little too far out for Moffat to try (not to mention feeling more like an indoctination into Faction Paradox than something we'd get on TV), but he might surprise me and actually try something like that.
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As to Perigee's theory about tradition being the enemy and that we'll be getting a variety show, he overlooked one option. Instead of a variety show, Moffat's going to turn Doctor Who into a talk show. The Doctor will be the host, while the Valeyard, Omega and the Rani are taking care of the show's production behind the scenes (not unlike Space Ghost: Coast to Coast), and the show will be filmed in Amy's TARDIS/house.

...I would hope most will share the sentiment; it's much more interesting having MOV around here.
However- ON WITH THE SHOW!!!!!! And having tried to dechiper the impossible paragraph I feel I would need some form of rosetta stone.
I fear the Moff may have been inebriated when he spoke such pearls......
...but the rest of it- I would give my "I" teeth if a certain Valeyard character was dusted off and placed front and center. Wishful thinking!!!!!

Now all we need is a back room...
We don't have one of those.
... But we Do have a bunch of old Docbacks laying around. Perhaps one of them could be revisited and repurposed, simply to get the word around and discussion about the topic without arousing interest from the front-pagers.
Whatchu think, Merrick? Am I just getting overly Overly about this, or should we Have a Hannah Montana meetin' with the guys, and secure some cover for the fella?

My *understanding* from MOV's message is that he had sent an e-mail to a site - and that said site published his e-mail address. I have worked at online publications for 17(ish) years and have never come across a technical 'glitch' of that nature. Stories don't magically appear - cut and pastes don't generate themselves. Somewhere along the line, somebody dropped the ball and revealed his information - which should not have happened (UNLESS my understanding of MOV's situation is incorrect). As you indicate, you've never had issues with e-mailing us - because we do pay attention to matters like that (yes, we're doofy in an number of other ways).
Am I 'certain' about glitches? I never said that...I'm referring to *that* 'glitch', as I understand the matter. Keep in mind, there's a substantive difference between posting the private of information of someone who wrote to you and the disaster that struck AICN, and that's an important thing to remember. Unless I understand MOV wrong, 'tis apples and oranges. The circumstance you refer to occurred when we were *hacked* - not because of flagrant internal error on our end. Significant measures have since been taken- at no small amount of time and expense - to protect us from that happening again. Remember - we're a high-visibility site and were targeted again as recently as late last year ('round Christmas time - remember when the whole site collapsed and was unworkable for a month or so?) We're still feeling the effects of that attack to this day (it was most definitely an attack from the outside) - and are still fine tuning the stronger, more secure site that resulted from each incident.
I'm more than happy to connect you with our main technical guy if you'd like to follow-up further. I spoke to him before replying to your message and he says it's fine for you to follow-up with him if you wanna. Just lemme know.

Yeah, tech folks have been chasing that phantom for ages. Interesting that you only see it in Docbacks - I'm told it does happen elsewhere but have never noted it myself. Thanks a ton - yes, this is quite helpful. 'Tis evidently an elusive residue of the site rebuild I mentioned to v'shael above.

when posted the comment about seeing the phantom edits, I could not see the phantom edits when I moved the cursor over that post but could see the phantom edits when I moved them over all the posts before that. I refreshed the screen, and the phantom edits went away completely. I don't know if that will help the IT people chase the phantoms down or not.

Somehow talking about them makes them go away
Some sort of 'anti-beetlejuice' phenomenon.
...wow.
That was a sentence I never would have imagined writing in my entire life, and much less having it actually make sense.

Just thought you wanted to know. It's not correlated purely to the Docbacks. Another TB#er expereineced them over there!
Glad MOV and SJW have resolved matters.
Hope we hear a lot of exiting news from MOV in the future - shortens waiting time a lot, and simultanously raises bigger questions...
I'm just sorry, that our OLD Docbacks from Old AICN are lost. You know, I'm nostalgic... and I didn't save those pages, because I thought they would have been imported... unlucky me...
That doesn't mean, Merrick, I'm not grateful for the opportunity you give us here, weekly. You know, how thankful I am. I'm just whining about the beginnings... lost... like tears in the rain...

I had to sit here and scroll back quite a bit to catch up. Glad to see all is well now. You crazy fuckers.<p>
And Merrick...thanks for making the Docback a regular stop for me here on Friday. Diggin' it.

...... it's not exactly a common phrase, or something you would even contemplate saying unless it has meaning.
Why not just astronaut? Not thrilling enough? (erm...I agree with that)
Even if they were referring to the time child it would still be possible within the confines of the show (which is what we are discussing???)
Confused some......

Not Paul playing the Doctor. But Paul himself.
See how impossible this is?
It is to bring in the main enemy: tradition.
Once Paul McGann shows himself and says, "Hello Doctor, I'm Paul," evil tradition is going to pop up and demand a retake. Time will be rewritten. And the suit will next contain... Gordon Ramsey.

Rory is killed as a _boy_ by River. She kills her father before he even married Amy. He really is the impossible astronaut. It's impossible for him to have been killed, but he is. And this explains why everything has been a "ghost train."

...Captain America was a movie of two halves.
First half was watchable as he became the hero, second half was god awful when he was one.
Ultimately empty and souless. Unfortunately did not enjoy, and it was such a shame as I was really looking forward to this one.
Hey ho- talking about the Doc is much more entertaining!!!

The two most distinctive elements in Primer are that the time machine folds up so it can be transported through itself, and that the protagonists aren't afraid of editing their own timelines ... so much so that the film is almost but not quite incomprehensible.
The basic method is illustrated nicely here: http://badscifi.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/time-travel-in-primer.png . The result has been painstakingly analyzed here: http://komplexify.com/images/2008/Primer3.jpg
Now the Doctor has stated his distaste for the vortex jumper that Jack/River wear on their respective wrists. We know there is/was/will have been a Time Agency that creates such devices. So ... what if those Time Agents are subject to the nastiness of Primer?
And in the Lodger, which we are about to revisit, why does the Doctor wear an earpiece?

So maybe it will be her, as a twist?
But I am beginning to think it's Rory. We are told we will get a payoff with the many deaths of Rory. His comeback was impossible. Somehow, I think we've been told it's him. The only question is why.

The players should now lay about themselves for all they are worth with whatever they find to hand. Whenever a player scores a 'hit' on another player, he should immediately run away and apologize from a safe distance.
Apologies should be concise, sincere and, for maximum clarity and points, delivered through a megaphone.
Oh. Sorry. Wrong game!

The players should now lay about themselves for all they are worth with whatever they find to hand. Whenever a player scores a 'hit' on another player, he should immediately run away and apologize from a safe distance.
Apologies should be concise, sincere and, for maximum clarity and points, delivered through a megaphone.
Oh. Sorry. Wrong game!

....I may check in tomorrow depending on my various schedules but wont be back here for a few days after that as my vacation has arrived, and I can't wait to kick back and relax on Hawaiian sun drenched shores.
I may even consider putting a bounty on DAWG and set about collecting his ass before inevitably giving him a life lesson and allowing him to go with christ.
Or I may do the 5-o tour of places the current series has let prisoners run for 500 yards before giving chase and tackling them to the ground in every episode.
Whatever I get up to my thoughts are with you all, and i will not forget in a hurry the vast majority of you and your kind words.
And before you know it, we'll be sitting on our favourite chair, sipping a hot or cold beverage and taking in the sights and sounds of a new collection of amazing adventures, getting our questions answered, and quite possibly asking a whole batch of new ones to carry us into 2012!
Until then, smoke 'em if you've got 'em....
..or rather don't. they're VERY bad for your health!!!
SJW.

Glad you liked it :)
I don't post much as I rarely have a great deal to say (I'm no expert on the classics as some are here), but of course when drunk I'm less shy ;)
I can't wait to get home so I can read the Doc Backs properly again - for the last three weeks I've ben visiting my folks in Wales (Just a few miles from where quite a bit of Who filming is done down in Swansea). Right now I'm just dipping my toe in when I can.
Merrick - I love what you've done with the docbacks, and that it has encouraged someone such as MOV to join is fantastic - I'd hate to scare him off so soon. :)
MOV - whoever you are, I love to read your posts - never a spoiler, but always something tantalising :)

Re: My earlier stuff regarding which doc, companion and villain(s) you'd like to see for the 50th anniversary:
Just as utter fanwank, who wouldn't love to see The 8th Doctor vs Ice Warrior tripods at the turn of the 20th century soundtracked by Jeff Wayne?

So, after re watching "A Good man Goes to War" again, I started thinking about how does the Doctor know "exactly where to find" Melody/River?
The last time we saw Melody, she had somehow gotten to NYC from FL(6 months later) & as a way to "fix" the fact she was sick/dying she regenerates.
You all may have commented on this before, but it occurred to me that having her regenerate as an adult-River, kinda solves the whole growing up dilemma.
Perhaps sometime early in that phase of her life is the point in her personal timeline where we see her wearing the eyepatch & she is "found" by the Doctor. Maybe the eyepatch actually is some kind of control device. It would be weird and interesting to see her as an enemy of the Doctor's the first time they meet in THIS regeneration. Presuming she doesn't remember talking to him about "big milk thing" when she was a baby being projected into a ganger.

As we get new appearances and more information on River Song, I like to periodically go back and rewatch her first appearances to see how what we know now alters perceptions of their relationship in her debut (or final?) episodes. I have to say, Kingston did a lovely job in a really odd situation. It was even sadder this time around since she said this series that she was dreading the day when the Doctor would look at her for the first time and have no idea who she was. And now when she talks about HER Doctor, we can envision Matt Smith's Doctor. She's spent so much time with him now that, given that her comments about her Doctor sound like they're about the same incarnation most likely, we'll most likely get her whole arc during Smith's run. Curious about that new haircut and suit she mentioned. And I know Moffat said she really did die in the library, but Eleven seems to have no problems monkeying around with his own timeline, even going so far as to hop back in time ten minutes "Curse of Fatal Death" style and warn himself about events that are about to transpire. All of this has been said numerous times, I'm sure. I'm just having a moment here. Beautifully written couple of episodes. Now when will we get a "Curse of Fatal Death" DVD?

I was under the impression this was only a 5 part series like Children of Earth, so having just watched part 5 and having it end with nothing resolved I was a bit confused, but after consulting imdb it is apparently 10 parts not 5. Am I the only one who didn't realize this?
Also, it seems like the typical TW depressingness is creeping in...
Oh well, I suppose there is still Eve Myles and Lauren Ambrose to admire

Doctor who ran continuously for many years and then ended shortly after TNG started in the late 1980s. Star trek in one form or another ran continuously until 2005, with an absence of Dr. Who during that time (except the mcgann movie) then in 2005 trek ends and Dr. Who returns
It's not really air tight as there a few bits of overlap, but it's almost as if the 2 cannot both be on at the same time...
It's late, I'm drunk, this probably will not make sense when I reread it in the morning...

Assuming you check in ...
Doc didn't know he was going to be caught outside the Tardis with Amy inside. So ... why is he carrying an earpiece?
If you haven't watched Primer, earpieces play a very big part in it ... 'nuff said. If you have, well ... is it possible?

I can't wait for this episode, everything I've seen of that episode seems to be a potential Blink/Midnight type classic, the clip they showed on Craig Ferguson looked insanely weird and creepy, and I've always liked seedy Motels/Apartments as settings for mysteries/suspense
Even the title THE GOD COMPLEX has such a Doctor-Who-classic-in-the-making type feel to it.

I know that Gaiman has said that if he does a novelization of his episode, when he expands it he'd like to get into the Corsair's past more.
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It's a shame that Big Finish doesn't have the rights to touch any aspects of the new Doctor Who, as that would be a fun spot to have the Corsair running around - at the very least have him/her in one of the Doctor's set of 3 releases. For some reason I keep picturing Colin Baker's Doctor meeting Brian Blessed as the Corsair (no, it doesn't matter that Blessed is in one of CB's stories, we've had Time Lords who looked like some other character the Doctor's met pop up before).

Brian Blessed as the Corsair in a story with Katy Manning voicing Iris Wildthyme. It would be completely bonkers!
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As for one of the female Corsair regenerations, I wouldn't mind hearing her with Tom Baker. This one wouldn't have to be one done by Big Finish, Paul Magrs could work the Corsair into one of his Tom Baker seasons of audios for Big Finish - Tom, the Corsair, Mike Yates and Mrs. Wibbsey. You could even finish the story with the Corsair taking Mike as a companion with the Doctor's blessing. The question I would have, though, is who should do the voice for the female Corsair?

he talked with Lorna Bucket, who told him she met him before in the Gamma Forests, but from his timeline he hadn't been there yet. He saw the prayer throw that she made (and might have recognized the prayer throws as something that people on that planet make) with Melody Pond/River Song's name in it. So, he might realize that he needs to get to the Gamma Forests.
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Also, there's in inside joke in the names. Someone else pointed out, we're dealing with a running River (well, not voluntarily running at this point) and in order to catch running water you need a Bucket.

So, the Doctor knows how to find River. But then the Doctor, apparently, is called down by Amy and Rory and they ask if he found River yet, and he said no.
What?
Pictures of the Doctor look like he is showing up in the same top-hat and all as he had when he showed up to Amy and Rory's wedding.
Now this is where it gets odd. What if the Doctor who shows up is the Doctor who eventually shows up to Amy and Rory's marriage, and doesn't know what is happening?

is that you might have switched Doctors somewhere to the gangerDoctor.
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Which raises the question (which I don't think has been asked yet), what happens if you drop a TARDIS into a vat of Flesh and wish REALLY hard?

Smith will have done as many series as Tennant did (not counting the Specials year) it feels like Tennant just left.
I'm glad Smith has stuck around though, and awesome how against all expectations he has dominated the role so completely and immediately.
I thought Eccelston was great, but it worked well to have his doctor only around for one series, and he had a very specific function to play in the effort to resurrect the franchise and bring in new fans, which he accomplished with great aplomb (as we discussed at length a few weeks ago)
I was very skeptical about Tennant at first, I hadn't seen him in anything but Harry Potter, and the cover art for the 2nd & 3rd series dvds didn't really fill me with confidence.
Not knowing the behind the scenes stuff at the time, my initial reaction was just that Eccelston was too big a star to keep locked into the show, and they just hired some nobody actor who would never leave.
I also felt like there was a conscious effort to cast a younger doctor so the romance with Rose would feel less inappropriate. The funny thing to me is I always thought Eccelston and Piper absolutely sizzled with a older man/younger woman (and some elektra complex undertones) dynamic. Really wonderful chemistry
On the other hand I don't feel Piper and Tennant had near the same chemistry. It took Tennant a while to find HIS doctor, but I think sometime around the 3rd or 4th episode of series 2 he gets there, and very solidly locked in by the time the cybermen show up. I was onboard by then.
I thought Tennant did sizzle with Freema and Tate though (but a plutonic sizzle with Tate), and series 3 and 4 are still my favorites overall for Who. Tennant was really 'my' doctor at that point, and while I thought he departed at an appropriate time, I (like many fans) were very skeptical about Smith when the early photos of him surfaced.
I think the biggest problem was the way he was dressed in the early release photos in very trendy black clothes, made him look even younger than he is, and very emo. And while when I was happy with the casting of Gillan due to her hottness, her youthfullness next to Smith made me very worried they were rebranding the show to a MUCH younger tone.
But all concerns proved to be unneeded, I don't know whether it was Smith or Moffat (or more likely both) who went the direction of Smith playing the doctor as a curmudgeony old man who just happens to be played by a young actor, but boy does it work! And Smith REALLY sells me on it every time. His dry dusty voice, those pained tired eyes, the outfit.
It's weird to think that we're already almost done his 2nd series, and the 3rd one will be here before we know it.

It would be kind of fun, especially if Smith ends up sticking around for a long time, 5+ years. If the 12th doctor they go a bit of the eccelston wrote and get someone really dynamic and memorable, maybe even a fairly big name, but only keep them for a very short time. Just to mix things up a bit and keep the stakes high.
Maybe do a single serial storyline for 5-8 episodes and end on the regeneration. If they match 12 with a great companion, and have the companion carry over to 13th doctor then it could work well, and be another good fresh start just like we had with Eccelston and Smith's beginnings.

As much as I liked that 2 parter, I sort of feel like it was a mistake to introduce the ganger Amy and Melody only because it's feeling more and more that (at least from a fan speculation stand point) the solution to every problem/mystery/death that should not be possible is 'it was a ganger'

I knew he would be fine because of his work with Big Finish. And I did see his Quatermass work, and I thought it was ok. I was surprised at how big he became - I didn't expect that -- but I hope it works for him. I am curious of the new Fright Night.
And I am one who loves Donna's persona/character/story except I want it to be resolved for a "happy ending." I want one more story with Donna. One where she is healed, remembers everything, but finds herself happy and willing to be there for the Doctor as a friend to come to from time to time while having her own life.
Matt Smith, I hope, stays for 7 years, to tie Tom Baker. I think the longer he stays the better he will be, if they do the right scripts. And then he would still be young enough to have a successful career outside of Doctor Who so it doesn't have to hurt him and his future.

I think it is a misdirection. They want us to think it is the solution so as to surprise us.
I do think Gangers can be used to explain Rory.
But the Doctor? No. I think the solution is we have two universes and two Doctors in one universe.
If the impossible Astronaut isn't Rory, it's got to be the Doctor.

The early release Matt Smith one where he's wearing a very cool but youthful looking black jacket, and the TARDIS is in the background under what looks like a gas lamp on an old London street?
There's a section of the Doctor Who Experience which is basically a copy of the Doctor Who office in Wales, writers notes, tone room, the whole lot. That picture is on the wall, with notes attached.
I never knew that picture was supposed to be set on the Sardick planet (the Christmas Carol).
But that is what was written on the picture.
The impression it gave me (which may be wrong) is that they were planning as far ahead as the Christmas episode, before the first artwork was released to the press/public after Matt's casting announcement.

There's some mystery? It's a ganger. Dorium's dead? He was using a ganger. The Doctor dies at the beginning? It was a ganger Doctor. Amy's house is too big? It's a ganger house (that's also a TARDIS). Well, maybe not the last one.
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The thing is, though, that we know that the Flesh avatar technology was introduced to be used further, and most of us are conditioned now to think that the bit with the Amy ganger and the babyganger aren't enough. This is even with AGMGTW effectively being a season finale by itself. After the Chameleon Arch bit got used again with the Master, we're expecting to see something trotted out again late in the season. So, the Doctor knew about the technology already? How much more does he know about it, and how much more is it being used? There's going to be speculation - for example, given the care that Kovarian has taken with setting up things (gangerMelody, gangerBigMilkThing), with the justified paranoia that she's shown I wouldn't be surprised that every time we've seen Kovarian it's actually been a Flesh avatar of her he's piloting around. (Which for some reason made me flash back to The Eleventh Hour and the Doctor's comment 'hmm, steering needs a bit of work') Of course, the speculation will run out of control (The Doctor needs an army? Plug himself into the machine, get a very big vat of Flesh, and literally spit out an army of himself. Need to have a 50th anniversary crossover with multiple Doctors? Have Matt Smith plug himself into the machine, get a very big vat of Flesh, and produce Flesh avatars of the different Doctors, being run by different parts of the Doctor's mind.)
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Also, the throwaway line from the Doctor to his double about how he might come back from his death, combined with already having seen a Matt Smith Doctor death just begs for people to speculate that it's the ganger Doctor that died. Which, knowing what we do of Moff, means that the speculation has to be wrong. I personally suspect that there's more chance of the gangerDoctor having regenerated into Madame Kovarian, or into Dorium, than there is of the ganger Doctor being the one shot down. (Of course, Moff might be trying the classic double bluff here, and making it simple by having it be the ganger Doctor and all of us overthinking and needlessly complexifying it.)
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I think the big 'problem' (if it's that) with all the speculation about gangers being the solution for everything is that we've got the midseason break before things resume, so there was just a lot more time for people to keep speculating before we get answers, so of course there's going to be more speculation about the gangers. Couple this with the non-spoiler spoilers that were being posted when the season just started that there were things we were going to need to know that were going to be game changers that weren't even introduced (as far as we knew) until several episodes in, and that the impression given was that this would extend through the rest of the season. That might be playing in to people looking for gangers under every rock.
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It really is amazing to realize that we've only had 3 episodes (2 of them being one story) with the Flesh avatar technology revealed, making sense of a couple of inserts into earlier episodes. You'd think that the gangers had been around longer than Matt Smith's Doctor by this point, it almost feels that way.I think that after this year Moff's going to give the Flesh avatar technology a bit of a rest.

Well, I have photos of me standing there from my last trip ;)
We did make a trip to it again this year (We were actually taking my son to a museum around the corner - it's 40 miles from my Swansea home base). We didn't see anyone standing there, but this might be because it's now almost unrecogniseable, witht he water turned off and some sort of advertising stuck to what was the tall waterfall. This may be why Miracle Day didn't show it at the end of the first episode.
The main entrance is still there though, and we were suprised to see the unofficial Ianto memorial is still going strong (pictures, RIP messages and flowers all stuck to the wire mesh there) - really blurring the line beween reality and fiction.
We were in London earlier in the trip, staying in Earls Court. There's a police box right outside the tube station there listed as "The Doctor's TARDIS" on foursquare ;) We saw a few people posing in front of that, and partook in the opportunity ourselves. My son was most impressed that it was the Doctor's "spaceship" even though he's never actually seen an episode. He's familliar with the classic series from bedtime books though ;)
We didn't do the 'Experience' (not enough time) - we're planning on doing it next trip; it'll apparently be permanently in Cardiff by then.

I'm so conflicted about Donna's ending. I desperately want her to be healed, but I also recognize how beautifully tragic her ending is, which is the very reason I feel that way. She had a fate worse than death, and I don't have a single Who loving friend who wasn't tearing up when Donna's terrible fate was revealed in 'journey's end'
It works especially well because she's such a loathsome unlikeable character when introduced in the runaway bride, and the way she turns around your opinion of her, and truly grows as a person to a character you love is amazing, and then to see it stripped all away, and know she will be that vile vapid woman again. So sad.
of all the RTD era characters though, she's the one I long to see come back. But it does conflict me
It's like when Gandalf 'dies' in Fellowship of the ring. It is such a truly stirring poignant moment. And I miss Gandalf after that, but I'm suppose to. And when Gandalf the white appears, you feel happy to see him again, and glad there is more, but at the same time (I personally) always feel slightly cheated that I can't feel sad about his 'death' in fellowship the same way after that. if that makes any sense
As for Smith...
7 years would be awesome, but I agree the scripts have to be there, and his desire to show has to be there. I haven't seen much of Baker's later run, except for Keeper of Trakken and Logolopolis, but there is a sense of...
fatigue/boredom
to me that came across when I watched those stories (both of which were fairly solid overall) in Baker, and in the general energy of the episodes. I noticed it more perhaps because I jumped from the Key to Time saga up to Keeper of Trakken. But there is definitely a spark missing at that point (plus his companion is a lame kid, and his new costume looks dumb so that didn't help).
I would hate to see Smith in the same way. I think Tennant managed to leave before he got to that point (although I still wish he had regenerated in Journey's End, as I find the Specials to be a bit anti-climatic by comparison).
Would you want Moffat and Smith teamed for all 7 years? Would you like to have Moffat still handling the reigns when the 12 doctor takes over? Would you prefer to have a new writer take over at some point in Smith's 7 year run so there would still be a sense of a 'new beginning' mid way through? Amy & Rory along for all 7 years, or a bunch of companions throughout?
What would be the best formula do you think?

wow, that's awesome, and impressive if they were planning that far ahead.
I remember the one shot in the first season 5 teaser that had me worried was a shot from 'the 11th hour that had the Doctor and Amy running through the park and he does this little jump over a fence
I'm not sure why, but it always had a very 'the sarah jane adventures' tone to it visually that made me slightly worried.
Overall though the first teaser put most of my concerns to rest, and 5 minutes into 'the 11th hour' I knew Moffat had absolutely cast the best doctor possible

I agree with everything you said. And within this season I don't see it as too much of a problem
I just hope that going beyond that the rest of Doctor Who isn't plagued with ganger doubles to explain away character resurrections
I'm confident Moffat wouldn't do that. I agree he's far to clever to ever do anything that lazy, and has one of the most original imaginations of any writer I can think of.
But I guess I was just thinking long term if some less creative person eventually takes the reigns after him

The problem really came from a new production crew which tried to force Tom Baker to follow the scripts instead of letting him do whatever he wanted when on screen. So, yes, he is bored in a way, though the stories are better. But I feel the problem lay with Tom and his ego. If Matt can be kept from that ego, I think he would be fine for 7 seasons and his last season would allow him to go out on a high, not a low.

I think they are a misdirection. It's why people are thinking everything is a ganger.
I think Rory will connect to gangers, but outside of him, I doubt it.
I guess the Silents we saw could have been Silent-gangers. What would that mean? Would humans only destroy the gangers?

If across the pond, a tv 'season' is called a 'series' then how do you guys refer to (what we Canadians/Americans call) a Series?
For example if LOST had 6 seasons, and the 6th was the last, so the finale for that one was the 'series finale' here, how would you guys refer to that?
That's the reason I've stuck with calling them seasons (also because they are on for one season of the year), just because when I talk about the show as a whole, it gets confusing your guys way of using 'series' as just one specific year of the show.

WOW
Only skim read through to try and catch up and two things stood out!
Pogue :) :) :) :) :) WB Man!
And the second one surprisingly is............................................................................................I Missed the big bust up! :(
Very glad you two are both back (even though technically i never knew you had gone) :P
Oooooh I wish i had more time to come on here and "cock" about like i used to! :)
Peace and love everyone!
Amy's house is a TARDIS! :P

One thing you have to remember (and I'm sure other UK'ers will agree with me here) is that many Americanisms have made their way across the pond, so are used even outside the US.
So while it's true that we tend to say series instead of season, it's not like if someone said 'The Lost series finale' that people over here would be confused by what you meant.
I seem to remember that the voice overs at the end of a show would say something like 'And that was the final episode in this series of whatever' with some reference to the show returning next year or whatever. And if it was the finale of the show, they'd say something like 'And that was the last ever episode of ...'
Mind you, I'm remembering from back before the internet days... when if we imported an American show, it was months after the fate of the show was known (cancellation/renewal).

While that IS certainly a possibility, I don't think the Gamma Forest has anything to do with where River is.
I think it's just that Lorna felt sorry for Amy & made her a prayer leaf with her daughter's name on it in the language of her planet, which translated Melody Pond into River Song.
So unless, the quote "the only water in the forest is the River" was a message--and I don't believe the Doctor ever heard that line--then I think there is more to it than that.
Now, it JUST occurred to me that it IS possible that as you suggest--the Doctor seeing the prayer leaf was something he took as a clue & River meant him to do so, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Good observation re: the names as well.
Thanks for the reply & cheers.

Rory told the Doctor what Sexy was saying to him at the end, so the Doctor should remember that. And, yes, I would think that the TARDIS delivering that at the end of her human life counts as a Message to pay attention to. And, if it isn't a message, then a) Why would the TARDIS (who sees the future as well as the past, and saves the desktop patterns) bother trying to tell the crew this, and b) if it isn't, why bother saying it when you're just about to die?

Another thought I had--
Since we know that Madame K kidnapped baby Melody & at SOME point turned her over to the Silent to be raised in the creepy children's home we saw in Ep2, perhaps the patches are a way for the Silents to relay instructions to those who may ,or may not, have ANY idea that they are, in fact, working for them.
Not sure if she was put into the spacesuit the entire time, but we DO know that 6 months after she escaped, she had made her way to NYC, was dying(perhaps she has a very weak immune system from the time in the suit)and regenerates as a way to fix things--perhaps into an adult River?
That could also tie into my theory that the River we see wearing an eyepatch is early in that regeneration & perhaps she is also under the Silent's control the first time she and the Doctor meet from HER perspective.
Or, it could just be a disguise as I had previously theorized, but I'm now thinking there's more to it than that.

I hadn't re watched that episode, so thanks for the clarification & I agree that would certainly be a message that the Doctor WOULD pay attention to. Also, a REALLY good point re: WHY it was said to begin with, as it really served NO other purpose than what you point out, since River explained that to Rory & Amy herself.
It's so cool to have other fans to discuss this with because despite my urgings, neither my wife or any of my close friends watch Dr. Who.

They're ways of being able to hang something on some things (music, movies, tv, whatever) to be able to sell more copies.
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They just happen to try to do it through popularity, or in the case of some awards, through trying to find the things of quality worth nominating (this doesn't apply to any music awards, needless to say)

I'm sure they'll have some use (probably communication-wise, and possible to remember Silents). It looks like they're going to be a recurring theme, though.
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And, the picture of Odin brings made me remember one thing - he sacrificed his eye in order to gain Wisdom. Maybe the same thing is happening here metaphorically with Kovarian (and maybe River).
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Or maybe it's just a disguise and we're all overanalyzing this again.

Always nice to pop in and say hi to all.
and to catch up on some of the wierd and wacky theory speculation! ;)
And has anyone ever mentioned that in 11th Hour Amelia says she lives with her Aunt but she's out.
Could her aunt be River?!?!?!!?!?
;)
:P

We meet her Aunt Sharon in "The Big Bang"-last year's finale, but a good creative guess nonetheless.
First they are visiting a therapist because Amelia keeps painting pictures with stars in them & they are assuring her that stars don't exist. She is also at the wedding after the galaxy reboots.

[quote] There was a bit of drama surrounding yesterday's reveal of a trailer for the second wave of Season/Series Six episodes.[end quote]
I'm a little behind the times, due to the move and all (thanks, by the way, Pogue!!!)... what is this referring to?

Let's Kill Hitler is at 9 Eastern, with the blurb we've already seen on the web, but with an interesting tidbit at the end:
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The TARDIS crash lands in 1930's Berlin, bringing the Doctor face to face with the greatest war criminal in the Universe. And Hitler. Season 6.2 (2011) Ep. 14
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Now, the repeat of A Good Man Goes To War listed just before it states 'Season 6.1 (2011) Ep. 7'. Things might be a little more wibbly-wobbly and timey-wimey than we thought; someone's gone and nicked 6 episodes on us (or they already filmed the Christmas special and gave it an earlier number). Or, more likely, BBC America just got the episode number wrong.
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But, it does make for amusing thoughts that there are 6 other episodes out there that we haven't been told about. Maybe these 6 fictitious episodes are going to be combined with the episodes that will be held over from the 2012 season (let's say another 6 episodes), combined with what actually gets filmed for 2013 including the Christmas special and suddenly we could have 26 episodes. I know, not really, but it's a nice thought. (And, for future discussion, I would suggest referring to these 'missing' episodes as the Land of Fiction arc, since it's highly likely that the Land of Fiction is the only place that those episodes exist.)
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Oh, and after Let's Kill Hitler, at 9:50 Eastern BBC America will show Doctor Who: Best of the Companions. This one will be 70 minutes long.
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And, as a bonus, the Companions Special being shown at that time means that The Graham Norton show won't be shown that week. Finally! We start getting our revenge on Graham Norton for the annoying voiceover on the first transmission of Rose, and for the annoying crawlover pushing his show, ruining the mood for the cliffhanger during The Time of Angels.

Given what they had said about showing movies on Labor Day weekend, though, it seems that after Let's Kill Hitler, America's going to be on a 1 week delay from Britain on showing Doctor Who.
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On the bright side, that should mean that The Graham Norton Show is off the air in America for 2 weeks in a row. Taste our righteous wrath, foul Norton creature from the Nether Realms! You only wish you had a cohost as cool as Craig Ferguson's robot Geoff! But BBC's budget won't stretch to giving you one! Vengeance shall be ours for all the indignities you have heaped on Doctor Who! Bwahahahaha!
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(deep breath)
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Sorry about that, gone for a moment, I'm back now. (Naah, I'm completely over the Graham Norton 'escapades' during Doctor Who episodes. Really. But, I do think it would be funny if he did a cameo appearance legitimately in one of the shows, and Moffat takes advantage to have him gunned down by a Dalek, eaten by an Ogron or something like that - all in good fun, of course).

I went in February and enjoyed it, even though I had a dreadful hangover. I was upset that the Doctor told me off for trying to fly the TARDIS though, and said kids should do it instead. Bloody kids...
Remixing the theme tune was my favourite bit. I removed all the brass and strings and made techno hi-hat noises with my mouth, which was much cooler.
The Doctor Who Live show last year was great fun too - did any of you lot go to that? Kids were bawling their eyes out when the Weeping Angels appeared, which shows how good they are at their job of scaring the shit out of people. :)

I had a dream the other night where I went to see Roger Waters do 'The Wall' live but Steve Reich had taken over the show instead and added a load of crap noodly guitar instrumentals, which really annoyed me so I left halfway through to get drunk instead. I went to the bar but it had shut, so I decided to use my TARDIS to go back to the start of the night when the bar was open. I bumped into a friend who didn't believe I had a TARDIS, so I took his woolly hat off him to prove it, and said I'd give it back to him earlier in the evening - he looked confused as I'd already given it to him an hour or so before (ah, the joy of being a time-traveller!). Then when I went to get in my TARDIS, the BBC had redesigned it into a futuristic spaceship-cum-TV camera which really annoyed me, and I was running around a supermarket looking for it in amongst the fruit and veg but couldn't find where it had been parked.
If anyone from the BBC is interested in turning this into an episode for the next series, let me know and I'd be happy to flesh it out a bit.

Hey, I've been reading the Docbacks with great enjoyment over the last few months but haven't made much of an effort to contribute before. Will see if I can rectify that without pissing anybody off. Thanks for sharing your thoughts - it's a great read and there have been some fascinating discussions. It's also great that it's been spoiler-free!
On the topic of using classic Doctors for the anniversary, I've always thought that when the Doctor ran out of regenerations it would be great if he figured out a way of reusing one of his old ones. So he'd dig out the 4th Doctor body from somewhere, which had got older and fatter and madder through not being used for a long time, and would run around for a special episode as Tom Baker trying to earn a bunch of extra regenerations (from the Master or the Timelords) before the body finally packed-in. Would be a great emotional send-off for Tom Baker and a rip-roaring race against the clock... and a getout from the regeneration limit all in one.

Loved it! We went for an early slot (11:30), which was a good move, because by the time we left (about 13:30), it was seriously filling up!
I really liked the costumes and props (small selection before the experience, LOADS after it). I'd seen a smaller collection at Land's End a couple of years back, but this was much bigger! The full costumes of all ten (previous) Doctors was almost a religious experience seen up close. Reading the notes really slams the sheer history of this programme home. That the Second Doctor was the Doctor when I was born, the Fourth when my wife was born and my daughter coming along a couple of years before Ecclestone...man, that was a weird feeling! The three of us stood there pondering this and we all felt the vibe off it!
The 'Experience' itself was a hoot, though initially, the crack in the projection screen at the start of the show was somewhat annoying until...nah, you need to see that for yourself!, The whole walkthrough was dark and loud (perhaps too much so for smaller kids. I'd leave 'three and unders' with Grandma if you can. There were tears at the Dalek attack for some of the mites in the party!) The whole thing was really well put together though. A little short if I'm honest, but for another £4 you can go through again.
My daughter loved 'flying' the TARDIS, but apparently not as much as the bloke in the fez and bow tie next to her! Quite a few of us terribly repressed English types had dressed up (though sadly, I drew the line at a mere sonic screwdriver.)
The 3D bit was impressively done! Much flinching of the group when the Weeping Angel 'grabbed' at us!
Afterwards, the shop was popular, too (boy, was it popular!) with my wallet taking a serious hammering. I shelled out for the box of eleven 'mini' Doctors to go with the big version the wife bought me for Christmas. These little 'not-Lego' things were huge with the kids!
I will echo V'Shael's point about buying a 'Silver' pack for any of your party who want a programme, as it comes in the goody bag. (Didn't go 'Gold', as the wife has banned me from having any more t-shirts! Boo!)
The cafe is fairly limited, but an outrageously-priced bottle of Becks gave Daddy a chance to have a breather and check out the wi-fi content of the show before lunch (there is an excellent Pizza Express on the corner of Olympia, so we went there and covered the table with Doctor Who tat. Great!)
All in all, a real treat for any DocBacker. Get thee to London and fill thy boots! Me, I live here and will definitely be indulging again before it finishes!

Now, if they'd only bring the Experience to America...
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Even if they did, it would be major cities only, and probably wouldn't come to a city even vaguely close to where I live (they'd probably do New York City and LA).
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I'm glad to hear about the crack in the projection screen, it's good that they can work some of the season 5 stuff into the Experience.

I hope everyone had a good weekend, now a question. With Rory having "died" multiple times, being erased from/brought back to the universe.....would it be possible for him to become a Time Lord hybrid?

I enjoyed the experience earlier in the year with the delightful Frozen/Protocol417 and we both had a thoroughly enjoyable time.
Reading your post brought it all back thanks biggusdickus! :)
oh i asked where it was going next and the steward said Cardiff for a year or too then maybe New York. So hang on in there! :)
Truly was magical :)

As a complete nerd, I have to say I noticed that the Doctor Who costumes were mock ups only, and not even very good ones at that. About on a par with fan-made contest winning entries. No matter what the cards say, when they have stills from the episodes right beside the costume, it doesn't take a genius to spot the differences.
The 3D effect of the Angels hand was the highlight of that. I wasn't that impressed with Avatar, for example, but that Angel looked like it grabbed the head of the girl in front of me. Really cool.

At this point I wouldn't put it past Moffat to have Rory become a Time Head human. It's not just that he died and came back, he got sucked into the crack when he was dying and came back from that. Maybe soaking in the rift changed things for him.
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That would be a nice end of season type of thing, though, to find out Rory can regenerate (though it would be nice if they'd keep him looking the same when he regenerates, at least for as long as Arthur Darvill is willing to play the part). Right now, A Good Man Goes To War made it seem like it was because the baby was conceived in the TARDIS that Melody's a Time Head. There's been no indication though that the Doctor has run a genetics scan on Rory to see if he's still purely human.
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And, come to think of it, if that happens then Sexy's comment 'The pretty one?' in The Doctor's Wife might have been more than a throwaway line. It might mean that there's a bit of Time Lord/Time Head genetics in him now and that the TARDIS finds Time Lords prettier than normal humans because of their greater interaction with time.

I'm not 'Who' enough to have spotted that the costumes were mock-ups, but the attention to detail was glorious. We had a brilliant day!
My seven year old is tucked up in bed with a plastic adipose toy and aload of 'non-lego' Who figures on the bedside table!
Thanks are in order - to your good self for the tips at the top of the page (especially about the wi-fi!), and to the wonderful Merrick for posting them!
Bless you, Gentlemen!

Only at the end of The Almost People the ganger Doctor is left with one which he uses to disintegrate Jennifer (and himself and Cleaves), but the real Doc then has another one, which he uses to disintegrate Amy. Is it accepted that he has spares these days, so he could give one to the ganger? We were told the Flesh could replicate clothes, but it wouldn't make sense if it could replicate intergalactic tools as well.
Continuity error or something more? Have you guys discussed this?

Moff does come up with some very similar tropes.
The sad " its then end for me" then a cunning plan that saves him scenario was done...er last series.
I know it can be said to be largely a kids show and I know that kids love repetition but there are limits.
Oh and SJW hi mate hope you are well. Re the MOV piece you need to watch that tendency to sometimes appoint yourself as official spokesperson for this Docback...its not a pleasant trait.
Still all in all its happy days as one of my favourite Doctors returns ---- looking forward to some stunning stuff.

From Joisey, The Doctor is lookin' good! The Experience in New York? Bring it on!
Now then, I've been hauling my way through the new series in-transit every evening, and I've hit a particularly grim spot - Season 2.
Having just (almost) polished off "The Satin Pit" - (and coming up against what I understand is the nadir of the series, "Love and Monsters" and "Fear Her") I've just about had my fill of this kissy-wissy, "I believe in Rose more than anything in the universe" nonsense.
This statement is apropos of nothing, but I just Had to say it before I grabbed the next guy I see on the train by the neck, and screamed it in his face.
Having watched the 5 (and part of 4) earlier, before getting your collective advice to "Start from the beginning", I thought I disliked Doctor Donna... I suspect I will reappraise my opinion before long.
And, frankly, it's making me appreciate Amy Pond more. Not because she's any better an actress, but generally nobody has crazy-glued her all over the scripts to the point where she can Really reach the annoying levels of the last two.
Thank you for listening. I feel much better now.

I don't recall if there WERE "docbacks" last year, but if there were I didn't participate.
So, can anyone tell me exactly how the Doctor could have gotten out of the Pandorica, OR is it just one of those plot holes we have to accept?
He'd been sealed in the Pandorica in the past, and then shows up in Amy's timeline to lure young Amelia to the museum in order to release and rejuvenate Amy.
He then uses River's vortex manipulator to go back to Stonehenge in the past and give Rory his sonic to release him & put Amy into the Pandorica.
Obviously, he couldn't go back to tell Rory to release him BEFORE he'd actually been released, so.... how'd he get out?

The universe collapses. Space and time is a fraction of its original size. A Vortex manipulator can now get you anywhere in this smaller universe, paradoxes are possible and cause and effect are being rewritten.
(Penguins are found on the Nile, for example. Other examples are in the background at the British museum.)
One way to look at it, would be to say that the Doctor gets out of the Pandorica some other way. It's only supposed to be difficult to open from the inside, so let's say Auton Rory finds some other way to open it. (Unseen by the audience.)
The Doctor is then out, but says 'Hm, there's a quicker way to do this...' and goes back and gives Rory the sonic. This creates a paradox, where Rory releases the Doctor quickly with the sonic, and is then given the sonic by a future Doctor. We (the audience) don't see the start of the paradox, just the final stable form it takes.
What can I tell you? It makes sense to me, and that was all I really cared about.

Thanks for the good thoughtful Whovian analysis...
As always, I enjoyed it regardless, and I'm guessing it was purposely written in a way that was intended to make it easier for the viewer to miss that paradox. I'm not sure that I caught it the first time I watched it because the show was moving at such a fun pace & I just went with it.
with The Doctor the impossible becomes possible
After all,
Time CAN be re written.

A simple explanation for how the Doc got out of the Pandorica is that a large part of the multiverse's existence depends on the Doctor's actions. He ain't called "The Lonely God" for nothing.
So if you shut him up in the Pandorica, the only universes that can exist are those where he escapes from it. Even if that universe is built around a time loop. The one thing you never, ever want to put in such a trap is the Doctor.
As for towing things with the TARDIS ... if you can modify spacetime as the TARDIS does then you don't have any shearing forces at all. You just tow around a bubble of the stuff and the thing inside the bubble feels no forces at all no matter how massive it is.
No suspension of disbelief necessary - just access to physics, technology and energies we don't have the foggiest idea how to do ourselves today.

Hm, weird… it deleted most of my post. As I was saying…
I know the TARDIS can make Sonic Screwdrivers, but I always saw that as a sort of emergency replacement mechanism if The One Sonic ever got destroyed. I never saw it as a sort of factory that's constantly farting out spare Sonic Screwdrivers all day. Does the Doctor collect them and store them in a shoebox under the console in case he ever wants to give one away, or needs two at a time?
So yeah, either he had a second Sonic ready and waiting in the TARDIS or the one he gave to the ganger Doc got destroyed and he then went onto the TARDIS to wait for a replacement to be 'grown'. Would have changed the drama of the situation a bit though…
'Doctor, what's going on? You said Amy was going into the labour and that I should get her onto the TARDIS, but we've just been sitting here drinking tea and watching Countdown for the last two and a half hours.'
'Yes, I know… Sorry, I forgot that I'd left my Sonic Screwdriver with my ganger. Bear with me…'
PING!
'Ah, here we go – it's ready now! Step away from her, Rory…'

Wouldn't it be amazing to have him on the show? Personally, I'd love that. And if he actually played Arthur that would be even better. The show has already established that it exists in the same universe as H2G2 (at least twice to my knowledge) so it's not entirely impossible. Just a little fan dream of mine *sigh*

I really shouldn't be here right now, but this place is addictive. Caught up on a few posts and regarding asking me questions - please do! Of course, I may not always have the answers, but you can ask me whatever you want. That doesn't mean I'll always give you an answer (or the answer you were looking for), but there's no harm in asking anyway, is there? I just have to resist the urge to tell fibs as misdirections, which I'm always tempted to do because I'm naturally a bit of a bastard when it comes to that. Can't help it. If I feel I'm going to give a naughty misdirection, then I'll do my best to just not write anything at all, but I can't promise anything!

I think we can assume that the Doctor usually has spares available, what with it being such a vital piece of equipment and all. And as someone already pointed out, his pockets are bigger on the inside too (see: dimensional transcendentalism) so it's very easy to carry one around with him, except when he forgets to replace it with another spare.

Slightly off-topic (actually completely off-topic, but I need to vent somewhere) but as scary as they are, and they are, am I the only one who expects to see Rose Tyler show up with a big gun to stop the looters? No? So that's just me then. Thought so. Could be worse, we could have Daleks flying overhead.

Things seem to be coming along nicely. Further episodes are closer to being completed, the lovely chaps at Confidential are working hard to meet their deadlines, and I'm arguing with a reindeer. Don't ask. Seriously, don't.

I'm in Streatham.The wife's just come back to say that the shops are all shutting in Balham, Croydon and Tooting. It's going to kick off again because the little scumbags know they're untouchable.
A squadron of Judoon is what we need here!

That was a good thought, V'Shael, on how the Doctor actually got out of the Pandorica. I would like to point out that there would actually be a reason to 'cheat' using the sonic screwdriver, though. If you go with the original timeline and Rory eventually gets the Doctor out of the Pandorica, Amy might have been actually completely dead (as opposed to mostly dead) at that point, and the Doctor came up with the idea of grabbing the Time Vortex manipulator and going back slightly in the past to give Rory the screwdriver. Of course, this isn't the Doctor in a fez version giving him the screwdriver. Rory frees the Doctor, events proceed as they are shown, and the Doctor with the fez goes back to give Rory the sonic screwdriver.
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At this point, we have 3 options: 1) the Doctor-without-the-fez just disappears as the new paradox create makes him superfluous to the need to give Rory the screwdriver, 2) the Doctor-without-the-fez arrives back in time, but sees the Doctor-with-the-fez giving Rory a screwdriver and hides so that he's not seen (which gives that reality an extra Doctor to account for), or 3) the Doctor-without-the-fez and fez-Doctor both give Rory a sonic screwdriver, but we're not shown the Doctor-without-the-fez bit because it would be too confusing for audiences. (Not to mention that there's still the question about what happens with that Doctor.)
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If you go with option 3, you end up with an extra sonic screwdriver lying around, and the Doctor eventually finds out that Rory actually had 2 sonic screwdrivers. This extra sonic screwdriver is the other one we see in The Rebel Flesh/ The Almost People.
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There, one explanation that solves two separate questions!

You're probably expecting someone to ask why you're arguing with a reindeer, but I'll respect your request not to ask about that.
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I do have to ask though, who won the argument? You or the reindeer?

I don't know if they could afford the fees for Arthur Dent to appear as a character.
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Though, if you were going to have a Douglas Adams character appear, I would suggest going with Dirk Gently. BBC could use it as a push for the Dirk Gently series, and maybe we could get Professor Urban Chronitis appearing in Doctor Who again for the first time.

It's one of my favourite things about geeks - the ability we have to explain away oddities, faults, flaws and loopholes in things we love, to keep them perfect in our heads. :)
We may obsessively seek out 'problems' in our TV/movies/games/comics/books/etc but when we're truly passionate about the subject matter we then hunt even harder for explanations that cancel them out.
Respect for an excellent bit of geekcon there, doctortom!

I can remember David Tennant making reference to Arthur Dent as a real person at least once. If there was a second reference, I don't remember it.
But sure, I think it'd be a nice call back to Douglas Adams, who did work on the original show after all.

I got sent home from work early to avoid any potential trouble this evening. It's a lovely sunny day so I bought a few bottles of real ale on the way home, then changed into my shorts and had a cream tea when I got in. Tea makes everything better and I'm sure the real ales will help a bit later on too.
Stay safe, everybody.

The other week some of you provided links to Doctor Who shorts from Comic Relief and Children in Need. Thank You very much for that, it was MUCH appreciated.
I'm slightly new to the docbacks, I kinda avoided them at first because I thought oh it's just some article about old who episodes, whatever, but then in my desperation for a who fix, I actually read the article, and then...discovered the real treasure of the docbacks.... the docback itself.... the community of people, wonderful people, people of VIRTUE.... i heart people like you, I'm feeling slightly emo-ish right now....
So my thoughts on talkbacker man of virtue.... part of me wants to know WHO he really is, but then i think a bigger part of me wants him to remain a mystery, it makes it mysteriously memorable, which would make a good nickname by the way... but... my guess is... well The Doctor is a moral man, a man of virtue.... and that's as far as I will take that line of thought
oh and my thoughts on who might of won the fight between MOV and the reindeer..... well the reindeer of course....
Astronauts or Cavemen? I want that-shirt
Hugs and Jellybabies for everyone
Man of Virtue.... a question.... Would it be possible to have the current doctor eat a jellybaby in an episode? or maybe have Amy or Rory eat one, and have the doctor say, "I used to love those" or something in that general direction....
hope everyone is safe from the riots.....
18 days till new who

Why does Amy's childhood home on the outside have two floors/levels, but on the inside, there are three!? I am thinking back to the episode The Lodger, and thinking that is what the third level to Amy's house is.

The first reference to H2G2 was actually in Destiny of the Daleks, which was Douglas Adams' final story for the show (if memory serves). Tom Baker is seen reading a copy of Oolon Caluphid's book 'Origins of the Universe' and I'm sure he makes some kind of off-hand comment regarding it's contents. There may be other references, other than the obvious one in David's first appearance, but if there are, then I'm not aware of them. Maybe that can be a little project for you all? Find more crossovers! And yes, having the character of Arthur Dent himself appearing in the show may prove to be a problem, but I like thinking of nerdy things like that from time to time. I always assume it can happen until somebody tells me 'absolutely not going to happen'. And then I try a little more until I'm told to 'go away'.

I'm sure 'The Moff' is tempted to drop in lots of references to the old show, but wouldn't that get a wee bit tiresome and repetitive after a while? With nearly 50 years of history to comment on, he could do that nearly every episode, but I'm glad he doesn't. Still, a jelly baby reference does seem like a nice idea. You have my vote on that one I think.

I was trying to remember which story it was in Season 17, but knew it wasn't City of Death. I knew Adams had stuck it into somebody else's script. Given that I should have checked out Destiny of the Daleks - it would have been pretty dire without Adams having stuck in parts in the script (along with the costuming). That's not to say that it's a shining beacon of an episode, but I suspect that the story would have been another 'Death to the Daleks' blah-fest without any redeeming features at all without Adams.

I think that extra set of stairs, the size of the rooms inside and the blue front door were things that led some people to claim that Amy's house was actually a TARDIS. I had mentioned the stairs in previous threads in conjunction with the Lodger stairs. I had some people say that they're just stairs leading to the attick, but I haven't seen stairs like that going to an attic. They take up too much space. I'm used to just seeing a hatch in the floor of the attic or a small set of pull-down stairs, not something that takes up that much room all the time. We also haven't seen anyone use those upper stairs or even notice them, so we can't rule out a Lodger-style thing with a perception filter.
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I just watched the Lodger again last night, actually. I'm wondering if the bit about those timeships jamming the TARDIS and keeping it from landing will stay as something only for the malfunctioning ship, or if Moffat will have it be developed into something that the builders did (or the Silents had the builders do) to jam TARDISes and other time travel devices - if it actually is the Silents who are commanding the timeships and they're helping Kovarian's group fight the 'interminable war', it could possibly be some type of field to interfere with the Doctor's movement.

Not Douglas Adams'. I obviously haven't a clue what I'm talking about! And with regards to Adams' involvement in that script, a good friend of mine claims that Adams wrote (or should I say 're-wrote') almost all of it. Not sure if that's true, but it's from a reliable source and somebody who I have no reason not to believe. So there you go.

Obviously the bits about Oolon Caluphid's book were Adams, and I've heard that Adams put in the entire beginning bit with Romana, and the part about the Doctor taunting the Daleks about their lack of climbing abilities. I also heard it said he had extensively rewritten a lot of the rest of it.

if that last set of scripts from Nation were anything like the set of 'scripts' that were turned in for The Daleks Masterplan, it might not have counted as rewriting the script as much as writing the script from an outline.

I am wondering if the Silence, behind the curtain, planned for The Doctor to meet Amy, and Rory. The reason so they could eventually make Melody Pond. The Silence needs a pilot to fly their TARDIS, and had Amy,Rory, and The Doctor make a pilot for them. So that would make them builders as well.

Despite the disruption to the ongoing filming of Sherlock, I think it's important to remember that it's just a tv show and people's lives are being badly affected by the insane events. I've just had to remind somebody about that and now I'm in a bad mood. It doesn't take much these days. All I'll say is this - I think this proves that the British education system needs some major reforms if this is what it's producing. Who'd be a teacher these days eh?

It was the UK Twitter audience that stepped up to the plate and organised massive grassroots clean up campaigns after the riots. Showing that the British spirit of grab a shovel and start digging, is still alive and well. While the politicians sat around planning and worrying about how they'd look in the papers, the members of the public said enough was enough.
The rioters may be a small angry mob, but the far larger mob is the quiet dignified British people who won't be cowed by some troublesome youths.
(And I say that as an Irish man.)
#Operation Riot Clean Up

I hope things get sorted out soon, and without the need for Judoon.
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Unfortunately I suspect that we're going to be seeing military or privately funded security get involved before it's all done, making things seem like some kind of cyberpunk nightmare.
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I'm also worried that this is just a harbinger of what might happen in the United States in a year or two...but that's a slightly different topic.
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MOV - Yes, Sherlock, Doctor who and the like may be 'just' tv shows, but any disruption to them also means a disruption to the people whose livelihoods depend on making those shows. (I'm guessing you might be one of the people, and I hope the disruptions don't result in ahy hardship for you). It might not be as bad as having your house or place of business burned down (and my sympathy goes out for all those people too), but trying to turn areas into war zones isn't good for anybody.
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I hope everybody in Britain can stay safe during all the turmoil.

We're not getting that information about the cleanups being organized (and on twitter) over here, presumably because it's not as attention getting as a mob of people setting fire to something.
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Here's hoping the true British spirit prevails through this!

Being a teacher is not easy, especially in this day and age. It's a noble profession that I miss now and again, but wouldn't return to if you paid me a million quid. And I'm in no way excusing the behaviour of those teachers you mentioned who were caught cheating. There's really no excuse for that.

Just to clarify, when I said 'just a tv show', it was in the context of the conversation that I'd just finished having on the phone and it spilled into this Docback. Apologies for that. Although filming *is* being disrupted, nobody on the production team is being effected as far as their livelihood is concerned. It's all a matter of meeting tight deadlines and that's what caused the initial concern with the person on the other end of the phone. When you consider that people's lives are being turned upside down by a bunch of mindless yobs, I think we can agree that it really is just a tv show, and that deadlines can be extended. It's the victims of the vandals and their physical violence towards innocent people that should be the primary focus of concern right now. Sometimes we just have to keep things in perspective. As hard as this may be to hear, there really is more to life than Doctor Who (and Sherlock).

I'm glad to hear that the disruptions aren't impacting the production team's livelihoods.
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I hadn't heard that Sherlock production had been delayed before your post, but if I heard someone complaining that they won't get to see their show on time because production is halted and it seemed that they were even slightly blaming the production crew, I'd be upset. The safety of everyone involved in production should be the most important thing. It doesn't do anybody any good to try to push ahead with filming a show if it means someone gets hurt (or worse) because of it. There's already enough victims of the violence right now. Hopefully everyone can find a way to stay safe. Even if it means paying for Judoon or Ogron guards.
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Oh, and on the subject of the teachers getting caught cheating in Georgia (the state in the U.S., not the country), the United States government has already announced their plans on how to deal with it that would actually be funny if it weren't so sad. The US government is going to scrap the testing requirements for schools, since too many students are failing the tests. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. We're well on our way to the government shown in Idiocracy. (To tie this into Doctor Who, it feels like must be happening to the society that Holmes set up in the Krotons, after all the smart people are turned into Kroton food and only the dumb ones are left).

I've sometimes looked to other British Sci-Fi during down time.... Some of the shows I've discovered and come to enjoy are
Primeval (obvious choice for me since it involves time travel, and dinosaurs),
let's not forget Life on Mars, and Ashes to Ashes, The american version of Life on Mars just didn't appeal to me,
Red Dwarf (Although I read all 4 books, YEARS before I ever watched the show, I prefer the books, but still enjoyed the tv series, especially the first 6 series)
Not sci-fi, but kinda about sci-fi fans "Spaced" I rented it thinking it was sci-fi, and absolutely LOVED it.
I've read and loved the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, and the Holistic Detective novels, I wish there were more...
That's all I can think of off the top of my head? Can anyone recommend me anything?
Also what do Doctor Who Fans call themselves? in this day and age, everyone seems to come up with some quirky name to call fans of shows/books/movies, etc. I googled it and apparently Whovian is the term? not sure how I feel about that, I also discovered the word Whoof, which lead me to something that made me giggle.... apparently there is a pony on my little pony that is a total nod to Doctor Who
here's a link to the article I found
are we allowed to provide links here? I hope so, if not I'm sorry. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doctor-whoof-doctor-whooves#.TkGdpM0oMuo

Just got back home (in the US), I've lost 6 hours since yesterday - I've been up for 21 hours but it's only 15 hours since I got up... Confusing.
The red Dwarf novels are probably the funniest I've ever read (except Last Human; I don't think I even cracked a smile at that one). I've read Pratchett, Adams, Scalzi, Gaiman and so on, but the Dwarf books made me laugh harder than all of them; and on top of that they're actually very clever books - especially the way they take random aspects of the show and weave them into an interesting narrative.
I've never seen Backwards for sale in the US though (still have my UK hard cover copy).
I don't know how much of a problem it would be to have Arthur appear in Dr. Who - I mean the original Radio Plays and the TV series and (I think) the records were all BBC productions - so I wonder what the small print in the contracts said regarding their control over the character.
I think it would be EPIC to get Simon Jones on the show as Arthur or otherwise, mostly because I think Simon Jones is pretty fantastic :) I'd also be happy to see David Dixon... Actually I'd be happy to see him anywhere - has he retired? I don't think he's done anything for yeeeeeaaaars.
Julie Andrews certainly made my pockets larger back in the day (fnar-fnar). And on that bombshell...

Yes I read them all, and have the entire show on dvd, I am so glad they are making series 10! Love Red Dwarf, ever since I caught it by accident on pbs back in the day. I also have the making of series 8 book, and a book by Craig Charles. :)

If you like Adams check out John Wyndham - possibly the most under-rated writer in all history. The man was incapable of constructing an ugly sentence and his stories are almost always mind-boggling. Also funny. Pawley's Peepholes in particular is a worthy precursor to Hitchhikers.
Robert Anton Wilson is also worth a peep in this vein. While it's actually not possible to be less british than Wilson, his "Illuminatus!" is every bit as rollicking as HHGTTG, has more sex and drugs, and features a large yellow submarine.
The British riots come down to education failures, overpopulation and wealth inequity. When the crap hits the fan in America you can expect the same - but armed with automatic weapons.
There is an educational alternative I can recommend, however. My child attends a Steiner Waldorf school. We couldn't be happier with the quality of the education here. It's a genuinely beautiful experience. So much so that if I could go back to short pants and do it myself, I would in a heartbeat.
Interesting that one of our correspondents used to be a school teacher. Reminds me of someone I just read about on wikipedia ... nah, couldn't be ...

about 7 years or so back, while I was in the middle of reading "Illuminatus!" I went out of town for the weekend and my house was robbed and completely cleaned out.... I haven't read a book since then, I used to read an entire 400-800 page book every other day.....

Let me see.. I'd recommend checking out any of the Quatermass serials.
There was a great BBC "mockumentary" one-off called "Threads", which if you can find online is worth watching.
For TV series, I don't think you can avoid a mention of Blakes 7. Watch the pilot episode at least. How many shows do you know where the main character is a political dissident and an accused paedophile?
For just plain British quirkiness, I have to recommend Sapphire and Steel.
If I can think of any more, I'll mention them here.

Now there was a nice man.
To avoid licencing issues, you wouldn't need to specifically mention him by name. Just have Simon Jones in a dressing gown, towel over one shoulder, hanging out in Dorian's bar and trying (unsuccessfully) to order a cup of tea.
Oh! 'Scuse me. I think I just had a nerdgasm!

is right. Sapphire & Steel is the shit! Spooky, unnerving and brilliantly acted. Just don't expect it to make any bloody sense! Once you accept it's own twisted internal logic it's a really enjoyable piece of classic British sci fi.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, he *must* direct an episode of Doctor Who. Just as Neil had to write an episode, Edgar must direct. Of course, the trouble with being such a bloody genius is that *everyone* wants him to direct their show/movie. Just as Simon Jones is (one of) my dream actor to star in the show, Edgar is surely my dream director right now. And why hasn't Stephen Fry contributed yet? Oh yeah, he's insanely busy too. But still, you *make* the time for Doctor Who, don't you? Thoughts? Opinions?

I have a feeling we won't see Edgar Wright directing any television for a while.
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Besides, he's supposed to be working on an Ant Man movie now, at least finishing up the script.
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Now, getting Edgar Wright (possible with Pegg and/or Frost) to WRITE a Doctor Who episode might be a completely different thing.

Edgar Wright, Steven Fry, Simon Jones... yes to all of those, please. If only it was that easy.
Teachers - I can only speak personally, but I've been doing the job for 10 years now and I haven't met a teacher yet that didn't care about the children they teach, or that didn't want the best for them. Teachers are much maligned and have virtually no disciplinary powers these days. Having said that, the vast majority of children are lovely anyway.
As for the rioters, I think the phrase 'idiotic minority' has been mentioned. Thanks to v'shael for mentioning the positive reaction of the British public to this nonsense.

Oh, there's absolutely no chance of getting Edgar to direct an episode, but we can all dream, right? His calendar is filled right up to the year 3000. I honestly don't know how he does it. Did I mention that I'd want him to write the episode too? He's also a wonderfully creative writer. And to top it all off, he's probably the nicest human being you could possibly meet. It's enough to make a person sick.

That's my vote. Yes to Steven Fry and yes to Edgar Wright as well, of course. But Morrison has (I believe) expressed an interest in writing one and I think he'd be a perfect fit for the show. That'd be my personal dream come true as far as guest talent goes.

Yes, I like Grant Morrison's writing overall, but when I go back and look at the Doctor who comics that he wrote (the Cybermen were created from the Voord? Presumably because they both had rubber diving suits as costumes?) I'd be a little worried.
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If you're going to get comic creators who haven't written Doctor Who yet to write for the series (you've already had Neil Gaiman, and Paul Cornell went into comics from TV), I would suggest Warren Ellis as first choice, but would also consider John Ostrander (who had originally planned to have a Doctor Who play back in the '80's - The Inheritors of Time - that would have dealt with the Doctor in his final regeneration) or Tony Lee. I heard that Big Finish is using a Tony Lee script, and he's had some good stories while writing the Doctor Who comic for IDW. Warren Ellis would just write something that would probably be insane and brilliant at the same time.

My nipples would explode with delight if I heard that Alan Moore was writing an episode. Come on, make it happen. The man has an unsurpassed Who pedigree compared to all the other funny book men that people are suggesting. Grant Morrison is also another great suggestion although I fear his wilder instinct may have to be reigned in and the man has an intense loathing for deadlines comparable only to dear old Dougie Adams. Warren Ellis would just be sublime and will probably have some time on his hands now he's given up comics. Also, as a regular reader of his blog, I know that he's almost finished his latest novel.
Steven Fry. I love him dearly but the part would need to be right. So that it did't come off as stunt-casting he'd need to not look or act like Steven Fry. A pivotal, non-comedic role with some gravitas please! We all know he's got the acting chops for it.
Much as I love Edgar Wright (been a fan since Spaced), I've no real desire to see any guest directors as the present crop of Graeme Harper et al seem to be doing a sterling job as it is and seem to have developed a "house style" which suits the show perfectly. I feel anything which deviates too much from that may prove distracting.
Fellow U.K docbackers - stay safe tonight, put the kettle on, have a cuppa and a Toblerone. But above all: KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON.

From an acting standpoint, I won't hold Death Comes to Time against him - he did the best he could with the material he had.
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Now that you have me thinking about Fry acting in Doctor Who, for some reason I could see him playing Oscar Wilde in an episode.

Did you have quotations marks in it? A couple of days ago I had problems in a Torchwood talkback using even single quotation marks. I didn't see it in other threads though (and if this all posts with the ' in it, things should be well here too)

I'm thinking something like the old Shogun mini-series but without quite so much of Richard Chamberlain. The gimmick is simply that the Sonic can lock swords and knives into their scabbards.
So the Doc turns up at someone's sepuku and when they go to pull the knife out, no can do. The kogi kaishakunin tries to pull a sword to save honour and it won't come out.
Now of course the Doc would not interfere like that lightly. The bushi would have gladly beaten themselves to death with stick and stones if it came to that, and anyway the Doc does not travel around attempting to, for example, disarm the Judoon just for kicks.
So a plot point would have to turn on it. Perhaps the retainer committing sepuku knows that the shogun is actually a Zygon. Because, after all, how could feudal Japan ever discover that? There has never been a society so perfectly adapted to hiding an alien overlord.
Okay, I admit the entire thing is an excuse to put Alex Kingston into Kill Bill mode while she still has the figure for it. But who here can resist the phrase "Sonic Samurai Sword"?

Grant Morrison- yes, However where I really think he'd be amazing would be if Someone said Hey Grant, write a season of Torchwood. *
Edgar Wright- yes.
Ben Edlund. - if he likes the show and was
available might well be AMAZING. (Though this might be because I think a matt smith smile time style puppet would rock)
This might not be a popular suggestion but I feel maybe Ben Elton might actually be a good man for writing an episode too...
* ok, I just want an invisibles tv show.

That's likely because the schools weren't out at that time, and the foreign school trips hadn't started.
I can't speak for the Experience directly (having skipped it for aforementioned reasons), but the museums we went to were wall to wall with Italian, Spanish and German teens apparently visiting through their schools - *big groups.
There were also an amazing amount of children, and of course their parents.
I would think that if you add those to an increase in advertising at around the time schools closed for the summer it equates to rather busy (yet another reason that I decided to skip it until it's in Cardiff - Cardiff's less busy in general ;))

okay, so those stairs do exist to attics. I just hadn't really seen them here. It might just be differences between older British houses and newer American houses (though there might be some older American houses that way also - it might just have been the style way back when).
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Still, I think that it's really a moot point now, come to think of it. I was watching The Impossible Astronaut again last night, and the house they show Amy and Rory in didn't look like Amy's old house. (This would make sense, with her parents back in existence, Rory and Amy would want their own place. This, of course, means that Augustus Pond gets to take charge of the TARDIS house. ;) )

to find British shows in the US, or even on the internet. I've been looking for some shows recommended to me, and Hulu doesn't have them, Netflix is hit and miss, sometimes not even having them on disk....

I used to live in a house with stairs not too dissimilar to Amy's up to the attic/loft. This was quite handy, as that's where my room was ;)
The only difference was that it was walled, rather than open, but so were the other stairs in the house (I was living there when I saw the Dalek in the street in fact).
As to why it's so hard to find certain British shows in the US, sometimes it's just down to licensing. Some Brit shows have certain music licensed that would need to be re-licensed for the US, and it's considered too expensive to do so. This is why you can't get QI here, or Have I got news for you, and most certainly Never Mind the Buzzcocks ;) I really want to watch Series 2 of Gavin and Stacey personally - you can get series one here, but not the rest. Silly (I never get time to watch much TV when I actually am in the UK).
You can get Bottom and Blackadder, but not Bottom Live, and for Only Fools and Horses you need to go via Amazon in Canada. It's very hit or miss.
Incidentally, I recommend Bottom if you've never seen it - it's puerile humour at it's best - Two men unemployed, Richie and Eddie, share a flat. Their life consists of getting drunk, eating rap and beating the living hell out of each other to pass the time. The episode "Hole" is one of my favourite ever half hours of TV; it can perhaps be best described as "Die Hard on a Ferris Wheel with no bad guys and booze" ;)

and find some torrents. I don't normally recommend that sort of thing, but shows like Sapphire and Steel are very very rare, and the fact that you can find their Assignments on Youtube is hardly damaging their non-existent DVD sales.

If you're just looking to own them, then you could look at an NTSC/PAL DVD player. Some can read all regions or be hacked to read all regions (not that I'm condoning it, just like Craig Ferguson didn't condone his Doctor Who song and dance sketch 'mysteriously' showing up on YouTube). If you get that, then you can get Region 2 British DVDs (they show up on eBay, or you could order direct from Amazon UK - I've done both before) and watch them in the United States. I've bought several series this way - I picked up Life on Mars before it got released in the US, and Ashes to Ashes this way, and have picked up the DVDs for series like The Thick of It, No Heroics and Misfits which haven't even been shown in the US.