The Aggressors (Warriors 111, Heat 106)

Oliver Wendell Holmes once wrote that “the great thing in the world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving.” There was nothing pretty about the Warriors stunning 111-106 come-from-behind victory over the Heat Tuesday night. There were major components — like the horribly stagnant third quarter and Monta Ellis’ non-buzzer-beater — that you’d go out of your way to avoid in future games. But at the core of the Warriors’ victory was a toughness we didn’t see during the recent five-game losing streak. They were the aggressor, coming from behind against the heavily favored team. They needed a hero. Multiple people stepped up. And when the Warriors finally barreled their way back into the game, they didn’t let up. They finally closed out a fourth quarter (well, overtime) against a quality opponent. In the frustrating reality that has been the Warriors 2011-12 season so far, that’s tremendous progress.

Put simply, what Warriors fans saw Tuesday night was a group of players believing in themselves even when they had no rational reason to do so. The 2-6 Warriors without two starters rationally didn’t stand a chance against the then 8-1 Heat. Nate Robinson, the Warriors’ 5-9 guard fresh off the NBA scrap-heap, rationally didn’t stand a chance of blocking Dwyane Wade slashing to the hoop. Dorell Wright, in the midst of a horrific shooting slump, rationally shouldn’t have been throwing up one long-range bomb after another. But what happened at the Oracle in front of a deliriously receptive crowd was not rational. A team that was well on its way to losing the faith of its fans managed to keep faith in itself. This win — more than any of the basketball analysis below — is a testament to the coaches and players not rolling over at the end of the third quarter, with the lead in double-digits against one of the NBA’s best squads. Instead, they did what all winning teams instinctively do: they fought back.

The basketball improvements that helped the Warriors deliver their improbable win were largely at the margin. The half-court offense is still a mess, but they found ways to score easier baskets by transforming defensive stops into fast breaks. The defense still has huge holes, as Miami demonstrated in its 35-point second-quarter explosion, but Mark Jackson found a combination of players capable of patching some of them. The Warriors still bring less raw talent to the court on most nights than their opponents, but on Tuesday for the final 17 minutes, there was no question which team was working harder or wanted the game more. Guys like David Lee — finally powering to the basket and delivering hard fouls — and Nate Robinson — fearlessly slashing time-after-time against the bruising Heat defense — demonstrated that the Warriors weren’t going to be intimidated. Once it became a dogfight, the Warriors managed to translate some of their desperation for a win into hustle, energy and intensity. Think of the performance less as a blueprint for future wins and more as a wrecking ball to clear out the debris from this last five-game losing streak.

The two things the Warriors will want to build on from this game are related — their defense and their fast-break offense. Like the Chicago and New York games (although not as impressively), the team delivered some key stops against their opponents best players. After getting anything they wanted in the first three quarters, Wade (1-8) and LeBron (0-0) struggled in the fourth quarter to get anything going. The Warriors used fundamentally sound defense to force the Heat into taking greater risks. Those risks — additional passes, lower-percentage shots — allowed the Warriors opportunities for steals and quick outlets, finally producing some easy looks not bogged down by endless dribbling or aimless perimeter passing. The Warriors aren’t precise or focused enough yet to execute in the half-court — and they may never be with this collection of players — so by getting in the open court they finally managed to minimize their offensive weaknesses and play to their strengths. You can do the usual chicken-egg routine here, but to my eyes, the team finally found a glimmer of offensive hope by cranking up the defensive pressure. If they can make that defense their calling card, they’ll have more and more offensive outbursts like we saw in the fourth quarter and overtime.

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In a win this big, there are plenty of heroic moments. These performances stood out:

Nate Robinson — What Nate brings during his best moments won’t help every team. He dominates the ball, disregards structured offense and is itching to throw up potentially big shots. But given that the Warriors aren’t exactly running a well-oiled offensive machine, it’s not like Robinson’s game is derailing some masterful system. If the Warriors are going to play junkball, they might as well get someone good at playing that style. Robinson fits the role, and his energy and aggressiveness has been a boost to this Warriors team looking for any sort of inspiration — particularly since Curry went down for an indefinite period of time. Robinson’s performance Tuesday night was tremendous for how focused it was. He relentlessly went at the Heat’s defense, drawing fouls to allow the Warriors to claw back into the game. He delivered hard fouls on the defensive end and was relatively conservative gambling for steals. Jackson managed the offense/defense rotation — subbing McGuire in overtime — to make sure Robinson didn’t get too overwhelmed in mismatches. Wright may have hit most of the big shots to get the Warriors over the hump, but it was Robinson’s relentless aggressiveness that willed the Warriors back into striking distance in the first place. If Nate keeps playing like this, he’s going to win over a lot of his critics.

Dorell Wright — Part of the exuberance that flowed through the Oracle Tuesday night came from the release — and relief — of seeing Wright finally get back on track. The loss of confidence when his shots stopped falling was palpable in his game. He was hesitating, shying away from action, and generally taking himself out of the flow of the game. The Wright that went 3-3 in overtime showed none of those flaws. He was back as the long-range threat the Warriors need to spread the court. He was decisive in his shots, careful in his decisions and physical at both ends of the court. His offense will get all the headlines, but his defense on LeBron James was generally excellent late in the game. James gives everyone fits, but Wright put his body on the line to make things difficult. Last year, Wright was one of the most reliable Warriors. He helped provide a reliable third option — ensuring that even if Curry or Ellis had an off-night the Warriors wouldn’t be without offensive threats. The absence of that reliable third option (particularly with Lee struggling) had crippled the Warriors during the road trip. If Wright can build from this breakout performance, it’ll go a long way towards helping the Warriors stabilize as the season progresses.

David Lee — There have been plenty of 20/14 stat lines in Lee’s tenure with the Warriors, but this one stands apart for how he earned it. After a road trip where he was increasingly ineffective at both ends of the court, Lee look re-energized to be back home. He went up strong and forcefully at the offensive end — trying to convert the basket rather than just getting fouled. He kept decent focus on the defensive end, particularly when it mattered most in the fourth quarter and overtime. It wasn’t a perfect game by any stretch, but with Biedrins down and now Brown potentially out, Lee gave a steady effort despite logging a game high 48 minutes. The Warriors don’t need Lee to be spectacular (contract aside). They need him to be solid. This type of game showed what he can bring — put-backs, slashes to the basket, competent defense — to an integrated Warriors attack.

Monta Ellis — 9-25 from the floor, 9 turnovers, questionable defense against Dwyane Wade and a horrible replay of the potential game-ending possession from Utah all add up to an off night for Ellis. He played out of control for large stretches of the game and his 1-4, 3 turnover third quarter was a big part of why the Warriors ended up in a double-digit whole. But if there’s any redemption for Ellis, it comes from his ability to integrate his game with the Warriors when it mattered at crunch time. Jackson hid him on defense (covering Battier, with Rush on Wade) and moved him off the ball with Robinson running the offense. With Ellis not at the heart of the Warriors’ defense or offense, others suddenly became more active and involved. This win was not just the Monta Ellis show, and the Warriors are better for the diversity of significant contributions. When the Warriors did need a big shot in overtime, Ellis was there to drain it. I still don’t think it was a particularly good shot (Ellis one-on-one, fading from long-range in the corner), but in the crazed flow of the game at that point, it was good enough. When the Warriors watch tape of their fourth quarter and overtime, they’ll see how many people other than Ellis had the ball passing through their hands.

Brandon Rush — His line is nothing special, but Rush completely changed the Warriors’ defensive energy with his fourth quarter play on Wade. After seemingly getting to the rim at will against Ellis, Wade had to work harder for clean looks against Rush. He started settling for deeper shots. And eventually those shots stopped falling. This is precisely the type of performance the Warriors wanted from him when they acquired him — make an impact on defense, but don’t hurt the team on offense. He’s not a great two-way player, but by Warriors’ standards, he’ll do.

Kwame Brown — We’ll learn the fate of Kwame’s shoulder in the days to come, but the injury (hopefully not severe) demonstrates just how physically punishing the play was in the paint Tuesday. Brown threw his body around against Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem. He struggled to defend the rim at time, but still filled up the lane with his size. Things fell apart in the third quarter after Brown went to the bench. The shift wasn’t entirely due to his absence, but the Heat undeniably had an easier time executing their slashing offense when Brown was off the floor.

Ekpe Udoh — A nice night for Udoh in the intangible categories. He provided defensive energy and helped cover others’ defensive mistakes with smooth rotations. He rebounded at a better rate than usual, even snagging a few in traffic (a frustratingly rare sighting these days). His relatively mistake-free presence allowed Jackson to give him extended fourth-quarter minutes next to David Lee when the game was on the line. At some point we may need to give ourselves the Kwame Brown speech in reference to Udoh — it’s not Udoh’s fault that Larry Riley reached for a role player with the Warriors’ highest lottery pick in years. When Udoh has games like his performance on Tuesday, he’s a positive (if quiet) presence on the floor.

Dominic McGuire — Like Rush, McGuire played the role of defensive stopper, subbing in on a platoon basis during overtime to make life harder for Wade in particular. Wade nailed a tough shot over him the first time; but McGuire got the best of the second face-to-face and forced a miss. The scramble that followed should have been McGuire’s heroic moment — knocking the ball off the Heat and out of bounds — but the refs robbed him of it. It didn’t matter in the end, and it shouldn’t matter for evaluating McGuire’s performance. Jackson looked down the bench and asked a guy who hadn’t been in for over a quarter to jump up and stop the Heat’s hottest player. That’s exactly what McGuire eventually did. Gamers like McGuire don’t need long runs to warm up. They’re ready when they’re needed, if only for a brief but crucial contribution.

So after the buzz wears off from what may be the Warriors most electric and improbable win in years, the question still remains whether this team can build something more consistent from its victory. As discussed above, this game won’t be sent straight to Springfield for offensive execution or even consistent defense. The value of this win was in the emotional, not technical, performance. The Warriors stared down the bully, took a few rounds of punches, then delivered a knockout blow. If nothing else, it proved to the League — and maybe the players themselves — that there’s still plenty of fight left in this team.

Adam Lauridsen

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“Having the Warriors’ best post defender out could mean a big game for Magic center Dwight Howard.”

Uh oh…Frank’s not gonna like that……. 🙂

Mopedelic

Another unpopular question:

Why is it that the smartest team of owners (including one smart enough to teach at UCLA, another that is über smart venture capitalist and was co-owner of a storied franchise that won the championship), wise and experienced GM, shrewd advisers, ever assembled in warriors history,

why oh why would such smart people…

refuse to trade the young boy, that lame boy nobody wants to talk about, for Chris Paul or a bag of second rounders? I understand they would not take him behind the arena and shoot him, I am told we do not do that to basketball players, but why not trade him yesterday already. I mean when healthy, he is worth about 1/100 to an average PG, now he is worth what? It must be because they were reluctant to include the other players needed to make the trade work, that must be it. Who would not trade the whole past and future career of that excuse of a player for just one game of Chris Paul, just one game, just a measly one!

We are told this management team, the team owners are smarter than all the herein contributors put together, with the exception of one or two perhaps. And yet, these guys refused to include him in a trade with NO. How is that possible?

I am telling you, I have lost my faith in UCLA and venture capitalists.

dave in LA

“Who would not trade the whole past and future career of that excuse of a player for just one game of Chris Paul, just one game, just a measly one!”

While you might enjoy just one measly CP3 game…my sense is that ownership (and most here) might just be looking at slightly longer timeline….

Bryhsiao

Also enough of We lost because curry didnt have Monta and we won when monta didn’t have curry.

Talking about sample sizes.

I listed 20 games curry stats where Monta missed in Curry’s rookie season many times here where you refused to comment on.
Curry was doing incredible during that stretch including triple doubles and lots of two digits assists all without Monta.

20 games vs yr 1 game sample size of Curry without Monta?

Your failure to even provide rational analysis is just annoying the hell out of this blog and you need to look into the mirror when you claim you are a data guy since you obviously don’t know sample size at all.

justinclosing

What a thrilling victory against the Heat! I’m looking forward to another great TEAM performance tonight against the Magic. Will be up watching the DVR’d event just after 10:30 pm here in Davidson, NC.

Arguing that a salary isn’t over-priced because there are others around that are even more egregious is not an argument at all. If the Warriors were saddled with Carlos Boozer’s contract, it wouldn’t make it a good contract. Amare’s contract, also, would likely be questioned, especially at the salary he’s being paid. It’s not like Bull and Knick fans are content with those deals, either. (Amare, I should note, does have one advantage over Lee in that, whether his actual production on the floor is significantly better than Lee’s or not, he is a bigger draw, by himself, and he may be valuable in luring other FA to play with him, something Lee, rightly or wrongly, cannot claim).

I’ve been attacked by both sides of this arguments for holding an opinion of Lee which is consistently down the middle. I don’t think Lee is as bad as some like to argue, because he clearly is a productive player. His salary does tend to skew a lot of people’s opinions of him too far to the negative, but it’s not commensurate with his impact.

That is the key problem. Moreover, salary aside, he does have flaws in his games that make him difficult to justify as a ‘centerpiece’ player. Sure, all players have flaws, but his flaws at PF do necessitate that he be paired with particular types of C’s that can cover those flaws, and, quite frankly, that’s the hardest position to fill in that manner. If you have a SG that’s a little undersized (like Ellis), finding other wing players/PG that can potentially cover for that is far easier to accommodate. The Warriors haven’t really done that by pairing Ellis with Curry (or Curry with Ellis), which only exacerbates the problems they have at PF, because now both their backcourt and their PF need a C who can wipe out some of their defensive liabilities. Kwame Brown and Andris Biedrins simply don’t do that. Udoh doesn’t either, because he has some limitations of his own when he tries to masquerade as a C, let alone his more natural position of PF.

It should be understood that any complaints I have about Lee, and they aren’t that big, to be honest, primarily stem from the fact that I think this roster is fundamentally flawed to make noise, let alone a deep run. Lee being added, in what appeared like a knee-jerk first move by the new owners, that failed to look at how he fit the needs of the existing roster. Meir keeps pointing out that he’s the best PF the team has had since Webber. Great. Doesn’t mean he necessarily fits with the rest of the roster. If the team went out right now and traded Lee for Nash (never going to happen, just making a point), Nash might be the best PG the team has had since Tim Hardaway. With Ellis and Curry on the roster, Nash doesn’t really fit, though, and may not improve the team at all by himself. This is Nash, multiple time all-star, former MVP, we’re talking about, too.. not Lee, a very good (but not great, and definitely flawed) PF.

Point being, I’m always against just acquiring players without a plan, especially when a team is paying top dollar for that player. I don’t get the vision for the team that Lee currently fits. Is that vision “let’s get Dwight Howard” (a pipe dream)? In reality, the problem with adding Lee is that it often leads to even more flawed roster building… like pursuing Josh Smith to play SF because he might cover for Lee’s defensive shortcomings. I like Josh Smith, but is he a guy who really pushes the team forward another step, or is acquiring him (which would require trading Ellis), only a fix for an issue that shouldn’t have been added in the first place?

The other flaw with this team is, of course, that it still remains too perimeter oriented with the two best perimeter players being very similar to one another (yes, Curry has a much better feel for the floor and how to space and move the ball, and yes, Ellis is a more athletic player who can penetrate and get to the rim, but, at a macro level, they both accomplish similar things).

Those are the lemons. So how to make lemonade? I don’t think blowing up the team is a totally viable option, especially given the salaries some key players have, and I do think the team could potentially find ways of making Lee an effective piece, but I continue to have serious doubts about how effective a triumverate of Lee, Ellis, and Curry can be. I think the team needs to figure out what their future is and then move one of these three so that they can try to balance their roster a bit more. Having defensive minded role players like Rush, Kwame, and McGuire is all well and good, but they don’t do enough to cover for some of the issues that remain as long as these three are the key focal points.

36pts 13assists 10rebs
Curry’s first triple double against LAC WITHOUT Monta.
The SG was CJWaston. lol

Frank

I’m still estatic whenever I think of the fourth quarter of the Heat game. I loved that we put Robinson, Ellis, Rush, and D-Wright, all three point shooters on the court, along with D. Lee. They gave us five good shooters and the ability to play with the center postion open allowing drives to the hoop. And Udoh helped out as well.

Defensively, with Robinson covering Haslem, he was able to steal the ball, and Rush and even D. Lee were able to cover the three point line. And to see our opposition only scoring 12 points in the fourth was just great.

While some can call this small ball, for me, it’s placing mostly swift and deadly shooters on the court and guys who can cause turnovers which results in easy baskets, as well as cause serious match-up problems for the opposition.

Tonight’s game:

THe Warriors have to make an extra effort to defend the three-point line as Orlando’s roster is filled with good three point shooters: Anderson, Redick, RIchardson, Turk, Wafer, and Nelson.

Orlando is a perimeter team, except for Howard.

Orlando only takes approx. 24 foul shots per game which is good for the Warriors, as we should be able to get to the foul line more than Orlando.

When K.Brown defended Howard last year, Howard shot 5-9 from the field. I assume that Howard easily went around K.Brown.Let’s see how Howard performs tonight.

Definitely believe that that you stated. Your favourite justification appeared to be at the net the easiest factor to be aware of. I say to you, I definitely get irked while people think about worries that they plainly don’t realize about. You controlled to hit the nail upon the top as neatly as defined out the entire thing with no need side-effects , people can take a signal. Will probably be again to get more. Thank you

JanG

I’m so relieved we’ll have our defensive stalwart AB expected back to battle Superman tonight! Could you just imagine how shorthanded we would be with our force in the paint?

For those in W’s braintrust who went into this season actually believing that a rehabilitated AB would be the anchor we need to take this team into the playoffs and be the double-double player this team so desperately needs, well, I’m sorry to say that it’s not gonna happen. In fact, for all this discussion about Curry’s injury, Monta’s stellar play, DW apparent comeback, MJax coaching errors, even Nate Robinson’s energized play – they don’t mean anything! This team will never be a contender, even for a playoff spot in a shortened season, with AB starting at the center position, backed up by Udoh and Tyler.

Sorry folks but if Jerry West was worth the money they are paying him, his first course of action would have been to recommend an amnesty for AB, trading him to a Latvian team, packaging him with anyone to show him the door, anything to turn the page on this depressing era. Yes, I know they tried to get Chandler. But that didn’t happen, we’re stuck with AB, and I hear of nothing to suggest that they are shopping this guy. So continue with all this talk about Lee, Monta, Nate, whomever. The fact remains that this team is going straight back into the lottery as long as we have AB manning the starting center spot. I still maintain there are a number of second tier centers in the league that could be had with the right deal. And for all those blasting Blatche as Cousins-lite, I’d take this guy in a heartbeat if it meant showing AB the door!

dave in LA

157.

huh?

dave in LA

Sorry Frank. My huh was not at your post. Numbers are messed up on my end. Actually was aimed at Ventilation Cleaning…whoever that is….

Get a quality defensive center who you could sign to a long-term deal – Chandler or Jordan – and failing that signing a lower quality one to a short-term deal – Brown. Even if they’re not plus rebounders their defensive presence should improve team rebounding.

Sign or trade for a long defensive wing and a defensive swing-man who can catch and shoot.

All these moves help compensate somewhat for the defensive shortcomings of our big 3 who are all one-way players.

I think the next move was to trade Monta – at or near the trade deadline – for someone who better fitted with Curry in the back-court (and maybe a draft pick). They were going to keep Curry for all the reasons obvious to those capable of rational thought. But Curry’s injury concerns threw a spanner in those works and I doubt that they see Monta (despite his many gifts as a player and exciting play) as a long-term piece for going forward. He is also the only tradeable piece at present in terms of potentially improving the team more immediately.

Plan B seemed to be to trade either Curry or Monta and assets for Superman, in the unlikely event that such a trade would appeal to Orlando even with a healthy Curry.

What do they do now? They’ll wait and see on Curry and if he can get through to the trade deadline in an encouraging manner then plan A will resume though they may strike they do. Last season he scored 24.1 points on 20.1 shots. This season’s trend so far is near identical (23.9 points on 21.2 shots) and isn’t going to do anything to change the league wide perception of him being a gunner who scored too inefficiently. Maybe his additional assists numbers might help but I doubt it. I’m guessing that not getting sufficient value back for Monta and lingering concerns over Curry will see them sit with the current team beyond a minor move or two by the trade deadline.

al oha

We know someone here has a Curry voodoo doll.

It may be inflatable, too.

sartre

Oops, sorry for the garbled sentence in the last paragraph (somehow lost the end in editing). What I meant to say was that the dubs might strike the same problem they previously have in relation to trading Monta.

Really bad news about Brown. The dubs injury curse continues. Seven million down the drain.

dave in LA

So much easier to be an armchair owner here on the blog when it’s not MY $7mil that just went up in smoke. Sucks for Kwame…torn pec is seriously painful. Maybe the fact that he made $777,777.00 for each of his nine games this season might take a bit of the edge off tho…

Why wasn’t I born tall? 🙁

sartre

What now? Waive Ish and sign Fesenko? I don’t think they’ll want to let McGuire go. Can they stay below the cap and sign Fesenko?

JanG

Re #160

Now want to retract everything I just wrote. Glad we have AB now! Tis the season for flip-flopping.

Frank

JanG: No reason to be so down. We just beat Miami who some say are the best team in the NBA. And we did so without Curry and fairly poor play by Ellis. THe Warriros are a quick athletic team with plenty of good shooters. THe Warrriors will hold their own with Robinson, Rush and Udoh coming off the bench.

This season is not going to turn on Biedrins play. Unlike last year, the Warriors go down 6 points during his stint on the court. Probably, just 2.
If the Warrriors run tonight, they should win.

bryhsiao

KS
“Sure, all players have flaws, but his flaws at PF do necessitate that he be paired with particular types of C’s that can cover those flaws, and, quite frankly, that’s the hardest position to fill in that manner”

nicely done.
Exactly how I felt about Lee’s impact to our frontline or the future of our frontline.

coltraning

like some ever-patient senescent Gollum, ever- patient, ever-laying the bait of tea party level one trick pony, one stat thinking, repeating his one talking point like a GOP-polished mantra of “job-killing regulations”, “government takeover of health care” or “Muslim-Kenyan-Socialist”, our Cap’n Logorrhea gently caresses the fabled assist to turnover ratio, ready at a moment’s notice to brandish it with a righteous, spittle-encrusted and depends-coddled fury and vigor (except as applies to any other PG in the league than the coddled candyass Curry), ever vigilant to protect his Monstrously Magnificent Monta from the mean mean malignings of the unwashed underclass who populate this board. A single and singular voice for truth and justice, dismissing any and ALL measures EXCEPT the fabled A/TO (except as applied to Magnificent Monta, who is ALL HEART, I TELL YA, and did you SEE the clutch spin move that ALMOST got a buzzer winner?).

The heart beats in anticipation of Cap’n Logorrhea’s next foray into a repeated talking point. Hell, if repetition got even liberals talking about non-existent death panels, this should be easy…

and with that he oozes slowly back into the cool and comfortable muck of his dank, Monta-postered cave….

coltraning

tough news on Kwame B, so now we will see if Frank’s theory on Udoh holds up, since Biedrens is not going to get that many minutes tonight…

Frank

Our Team: You have written the best stuff in the pas how Udoh moves on the court defensively.

He sets great picks for others to drive to the hoop.

I just don’t understand why he doesn’t get himself in the position to receive a pass and score when Ellis drives to hoop, or why no alley-opps come his way.

I think his footwork in the low post is fluid. I would like to see him get more playing time (he probably will with K.Brown having to undergo surgery and be out 3 or 4 months.) power to the hoop more and get to the foul line, and for Jackson to integrate him into the offense more so that we can see whether or not he can develop an offensive game.

bullship

Well, Brown was playing fairly well- especially for him- so tough break for the W’s.

I am not sure about AB, I thought ( was hoping really) that maybe the W’ s were keeping his mins down because they were working on or were close to a trade….sigh…now it looks like he is their only 7 footer again. But hey , at least the warriors have FIVE players that are 6’2″ or SHORTER on the roster. It is well known that small guys are hard to find……oh wait , maybe it is BIG GUYS that are hard to find.

The Warriors are the only team in the NBA that stockpiles small combo guards….

Anyone notice that teams like Portland and the Lakers are long at every position?…and gee they win games…go figure.

bryhsiao

KS, another gem I missed in the last post re your Lee comment
“only a fix for an issue that shouldn’t have been added in the first place?”

Yes, that’s what I get for Lee’s signing in the very beginning. He was a good player to have but with 6years contract(5 yrs 80M extension) at the time was not rational for a PF who has below the average defense and lower BPG than our PG/SG.

What we needed was a monster down low in both ends or at least on D.
We got an offensive PF with below the average D where we already were one of the highest scoring team in the league

” I’m always against just acquiring players without a plan, especially when a team is paying top dollar for that player.”

To me, Lee’s signing like you said was miscalculated and misfitting. A nice player to have but not solving much of our main problem in interior defense and at that price.

Now we have to throw 15M at Chandler to try to cover up Lee’s weakness and we still do not have post plays in our front court to dump the ball too even if we get Chandler.

End up, we got a 7M Brown and now injured.

Also I fully agree that adding Josh Smith to mask Lee’s weak D was really not that great of an idea but since we are stuck with Lee, that’s what some other posters could think of at that time.

Lee is a complementary player, nice to have , same thing as Ryan Anderson of Magic this year but is he/Lee the corner stone or just a good starter to have who needs Dhoward next to him?
btw Ryan Anderson is getting paid 2.3M this year and 3M next year.

Lets watch how he goes against Lee tonight. I bet people may be surprised on how well he plays at PF at such a low price.

Great post again KS.

Gmoney

Damn, Kwame is out and so is our interior presence.

Expect to see a lot of Lee at the 5 and Mcguire at the 4.

What happened to the cat who got released due to heart issues? Hayes? isn’t he still available?

bullship

And the ‘ Blow- Up’ is happening anyway…

The Warriors need to trade Ellis asap….before he gets hurt.

I actually think dumping Ellis at this point may be addition by subtraction. Nothing against Ellis, but it would force other guys to step- up offensively and would improve the team defense considering mcguire and rush would get more pt. Plus he is the only Warrior that may yield a top 10 draft pick at this point.

And Orlando will crush the W’s tonight…no curry, no brown, hobbled AB….no chance

Kommon Senze

I do think Ellis’ highlight reel plays, improved passing, etc. may help change some perceptions around him. He’s done a lot since he hit his low point a couple years ago, to rehabilitate his value, and, in a more cost conscious age, his $11 million per is actually quite reasonable (especially since it doesn’t escalate year to year).

Is he inefficient at times? Yes. So is Carmelo Anthony. Does he have a tendency to over-pound the rock? yes, but so do a number of other players around the league.

I maintain that it would be easier to build around Curry due to his better understanding of the PG position. No, he’s not Steve Nash, but that doesn’t mean he’s not better than Monta at running an offense. Monta will always be a better 1-1 player than Curry. There are ways to build around such a player, too, but the options are more limited to build a team correctly around such a talent that’s undersized at the SG position. Curry’s ankle issues, of course, muddy this equation a little.

I should add that comparisons of Ellis to Kobe Bryant are off base for a number of reasons (starting with overall production efficiency, following through defensive impact, and ending with the significant size discrepancy which effects the ability of one, and not the other, to play post-up basketball — a key ingredient to half-court play). That said, Ellis is one of the best scoring guards in the league. That does have value if, as noted repeatedly, you have the right pieces to build around such a player.

I don’t have the time (literally) to work out speculations on potential trades, but.. as long as the team tries to build around their version of the ‘big-3’ I think this team will continue to run into limitations that keep them from becoming much better. Could they make the playoffs as an 8-seed? Yeah, they could. But I don’t see much room beyond that in their current ceiling, and that’s why I’d be looking more to changing things up. This isn’t the NFL, where getting to the playoffs means you have a shot at going all the way. The NBA championship gauntlet is a game of attrition, and, while, with all the chips falling right, any team might pull off a ‘We Believe’ like upset in one round, it never extends itself much beyond that.

bryhsiao

For all the people beg on AB this year, I have to differ.
I think he played fairly well in his limited time this year.
His hookshots are accurate this year and he got the bounce back.

AB may not be giving you much other than a few outbacks/hooks but he will give you rebounds/a couple blocks/altering shots AND many fouls 😀

I am predicting a decent game tonight from AB. Of course he could just get 2 early fouls and sit for the rest of the game.
But I hope we will see an aggressive AB tonight regardless.
And I believe AB may look better than Kwame in the stone hand department down low.

AB may also surprise us with his FT% if he gets any. It’s not that hard to be above 37% (what we have in Kwame) right?

SJ Jim

I’m not predicting anything along these lines tonight, but does anybody else remember the sterling defensive effort Lee displayed last year against Howard? If he can repeat that, maybe we can actually stay in this game.

A nice lady bought a house across the street from me – and paid $600k and took out a $200k second mortgage on a house that she can’t now sell for $400k now… There’s a foreclosure sticker in her window today.

“I maintain that it would be easier to build around Curry due to his better understanding of the PG position. No, he’s not Steve Nash, but that doesn’t mean he’s not better than Monta at running an offense. Monta will always be a better 1-1 player than Curry. There are ways to build around such a player, too, but the options are more limited to build a team correctly around such a talent that’s undersized at the SG position.”

Monta is a SG who tried to dish off when stuck.
Curry is a PG who tried to assist first and if no other option, he would try to score.
Both are good players but like you said it’s easier to build around a PG like Curry than on a 6-3 185lbs SG.
Also like you mentioned Monta cannot compare to Kobe where Kobe is 6-6 205lbs. And
From wiki,
Michael Jordan, Gary Payton, Kevin Garnett, and Kobe Bryant share the record for most NBA All-Defensive first team selections with nine.
Nine times of All defensive first team.

How can you compare these 2? When Monta may be among one of the worse defensive guards in the league, or simply below the average all these years.

all they have is the chucker stats but Kobe has way more tools in him for the clutch time to get that killer shot since he can post up and induce fouls and all arrays of fade aways.
Monta is either pull-up jumpers most of the time contested (since he is 6-3 instead it’s easier for players like Battier to put a hand at the ball or in his face.) or trying to get a layup among trees. (how that works for us in the last few secs in the game?)

Monta is damn quick though and his speed is the weapon mainly over many other scorers. however, what would we get when he gets bogged down by injury like Kobe?

Kobe still has the height/wingspan and variety of moves/post moves and high basketball IQ even when he had been slowed down by injuries these years.

Monta without speediness –> would lose a lot of his effectiveness.
A smallish SG with no speed will be hard to watch but every NBA player is likely getting to the point where they need to adept their game due to the decline of their physical ability.
by then, players like Nash stand out since they don’t rely on their physical ability as much.

All the above may be reasons why I think Warriors would rather build upon Curry and trade Monta. the problem was people don’t want Monta because they know Monta is a SG averaging 21 shots a game with real high usage rate and many teams already have one player or more who need the ball at hand at all time. Or they are afraid such a player will disrupt their already established system and chemistry because like you said, it would need a specific team design to fit with Monta and it’s definitely not conventional build for every team.

David Lee is a career .774 free throw shooter. 4 seasons shooting over 80% from charity.

So yes, David Lee is VERY SOLID at the free throw line. Especially for a big man.

David Lee is a career .544 shooter from the field although he was limited to dunks/layups at the beginning of his career. His .507 number last year is more what I expect and is VERY SOLID.

sartre

@Petey, I think the difference for the current season was due to your statistic covering only the first 8 games. And I mistakenly gave his 2008/2009 season FT% instead of his 2009/2010 one.

I’m greedy, I want him to be consistently over 80% from the FT line while playing for the dubs. I wasn’t meaning to question his overall offensive strengths and ability to rebound. As you say these are offset some by his defensive limitations. While with the dubs the team rebounding has been poorer with him on the court, presumably because his defensive limitations contribute to fewer missed shots to potentially rebound.

deano

Losing Kwame for the season is a big bummer. He was doing well, and there is no one on the roster to replace him. As astute as the FO has been this season, I doubt that they can find a replacement.

I feel bad for Beans, because the heat will be on him to be aggresssive for 30 minutes a game rather than 15 — and still avoid fouling out. Not likely. The loss of Kwame is all the more poignant with Dwight Howard in town. Time to recalibrate the expectations, and prepare (as seemingly always) for the Draft.

Tarheel Warrior

Mopedelic@152

Too funny! Bet the old reprobate was ROTFL.

sartre

As bad as our start has been 3-6, seven teams presently have a poorer record. It takes real effort (in the absence of good luck with the lottery balls) to be bad enough to draft 1-7.

Gmoney

Interesting takes on the Curry/Ellis conundrum. I agree with a lot of what KS and Bry have to say. But, I do have one caveat. Curry does not draw anywhere near the attention Monta does. Was watching that 4th quarter against the Heat again carefully. Their defense consisted of pitting Monta vs. Wade/LBJ and Battier, three of the best defenders in the game of basketball. Battier wasn’t even guarding his man half the time, he was simply shadowing Monta and that’s how both Nate and Wright got the open threes they did in crunch time. Players like this are extremely rare and a good coach, with good players, can use this fixation by the D on one player to his advantage. I get the chucking claim, but after rewatching it, he had to throw up a lot of late in the shot clock J’s that were the product of great team defense by the Heat. I just hope Curry comes back soon so we can talk about how well they play together (remember what they did to the Spurs until Curry went down?) as opposed to which one I would rather keep.

meir34

Good news, terrible news.

Biedrins will play tonight.

Kwame to have surgery and out for at least three months. Torn chest muscle.

Now I AM worried.

Saw another Physical Therapist (not my friend who was with three Denver sports teams-that I often quote), and he said Curry will have a few more sprains this season, likely. And his ankle will never be strong enough to make it for long in the pros. Get him well and try to dump him off on someone. Too bad we didn’t trade him while the bids were high. Our fate. BW and now SC. And then Kwame. Whom can we pick up. 7 1/2 mill invested in Kwame this year only. We have no choice but either to use Lee at Center or Udoh. And start going small.

Not what I wanted. I wanted us to move Curry as part of a deal to get a Center or a real pg, and then build on whom we got, Monta and Lee at PF. Bad scene. Like the stock market, you buy on lows, sell on the hype and compound your assets. I wonder what kind of insurance we have on Kwame and on Curry for when he next goes down? Certainly at best paying part of their salaries. Not getting the bodies we could have gotten.

As for tonight, maybe a Nellie move, like putting Nate on Superman is in order.

purvisshort

Guess it is time to see if Tyler can step up to the plate. Howard might dunk him through the hoop. Nothing like being thrown into the fire. Anyway I would like to see Tyler get a few minutes.

al oha

David Lee can be an effective player when used correctly.

As a FT line and elbow-extended, high post player, he passes well, perpetuates “flow” with the offense going thru him, and can hit that jumper with high efficiency. Good pick and roll player. But, I prefer other plays where he can choose to pass to players coming off other picks.

If played in the low-post however, he struggles to finish among the opponent’s Bigs and jambs up the key with his defender, for other slashers and drivers.

meir34

Confusion: Steinmetz reports a muscle in his right shoulder.
That’s two reports that are different. Not that it matters. They both agree on surgery and at least 3 mos out.