unless a trainer has achieved what i am trying to do (or what you want to do) they are worthless.

go find a hardcore or powerlifting gym or even a crossfit gym for people who want to be skinny, the people there will help you out and train you for free, and teach you the right way.
commercial gyms are for people who socialize, waste time and do not get results.

Nice lifts! 8-9% BF is good number - and takes some dedication to achieve!

i think you need to get over yourself. i meant we have a lot of guys with overinflated egos at the gym, like you

if you knew me you wouldnt think that at all, the only over inflated egos i usually see are the trainers at the gym who think they know it all but havent achieved the results that their customers are trying to get.
when i train in the commercial gym that is close to me (my hardcore gym is 1.5hours away i do on the weekends) i stay in my corner am quiet and train hard and heavy, getting funny looks when i lift a lot of weight or put some effort into a lift.

you ask me for my credentials and i gave them to you, i do know a thing or two about lifting and getting results. And the things i want to improve i go to the people who have achieved them, like guys who have squatted over 1000lbs, benched over 800lbs, deadlifted over 800lbs etc. how many personal trainers have achieved that? I go to the lifters that dont care about raping you from your money and never teach you what you need to know so you keep coming back to them.

every time i watch a trainer train someone i just laugh and think they are no better off and are wasting time.
its not to hard to figure out lifting it you watch the people you want to emulate.

no i totally know what you mean but i think its always worthwhile in the beginning. it took me a long time to figure out my body and what kind of exercises worked for me. if i could do it all over again i think i'd probably get a trainer who had more experience with oly or powerlifting. majority of trainers's clients are people who just want functional strength for daily activities

if you knew me you wouldnt think that at all, the only over inflated egos i usually see are the trainers at the gym who think they know it all but havent achieved the results that their customers are trying to get.
when i train in the commercial gym that is close to me (my hardcore gym is 1.5hours away i do on the weekends) i stay in my corner am quiet and train hard and heavy, getting funny looks when i lift a lot of weight or put some effort into a lift.

you ask me for my credentials and i gave them to you, i do know a thing or two about lifting and getting results. And the things i want to improve i go to the people who have achieved them, like guys who have squatted over 1000lbs, benched over 800lbs, deadlifted over 800lbs etc. how many personal trainers have achieved that? I go to the lifters that dont care about raping you from your money and never teach you what you need to know so you keep coming back to them.

so are you assuming that every person pursuing some form of personal training is attempting to achieve ungodly levels of strength in their upper/lower/core? or do you think perhaps that many people pursue PT for basic guidance, overall health maintenance, or perhaps motivation and simple yet effective muscle growth? not everyone's trying to be a pro lifter, broham, myself included.

so are you assuming that every person pursuing some form of personal training is attempting to achieve ungodly levels of strength in their upper/lower/core? or do you think perhaps that many people pursue PT for basic guidance, overall health maintenance, or perhaps motivation and simple yet effective muscle growth? not everyone's trying to be a pro lifter, broham, myself included.

no i dont assume.
but there are three things you can do exercising. Build muscle, increase endurance, and lose fat.
most people want to build some muscle (even if they done know it, aka i want to be more cut, which is increase muscle mass lose fat to the level desired), and 'most" PT dont do a good job teaching one how to build muscle. They have you do a bunch of worthless exercises that do not contribute then they make progress.

Strengthen your core first. Don't worry about the vanity muscles, as others have noted. Your tris will get plenty of work on pressing exercises and biceps will also get worked with your back exercises, among others, so don't worry about that right off the bat.

My advice would be to get a trainer (or an experienced lifter) to find YOUR routine and see what works for you, while also having someone there to analyze your form until you get used to doing the exercises right. Then once you're into your routine nice and regular, and you feel your endurance and strength starting to slowly and steadily climb, check out mixing up your routine. The New Encyclopedia has a lot of good exercises in it, along with some decent reading material.

One thing that I've noticed in all my years of lifting and having to train others is that everybody seems to have different routines that work best for them. In the end, you need to safely find out what works best for you, and this may take a while, but once you've figured it out, you'll be impressed with your progress.

The only advice i have for you OP is buy a book or read a shit load of stuff on lifting and proper nutrition for your goals. Dont hire just any trainer in the gym, make sure they actually know what theyre doing (I'm saying that because one of my cousins got certified with a stupid little quiz and he doesnt know jack shit )

Write out a plan and stick to it! Always change it up once in a while.

unless a trainer has achieved what i am trying to do (or what you want to do) they are worthless.

go find a hardcore or powerlifting gym or even a crossfit gym for people who want to be skinny, the people there will help you out and train you for free, and teach you the right way.
commercial gyms are for people who socialize, waste time and do not get results.

nice lifts smokin ive competed a few times the last in dec of 10. my numbers arent like that but i was raw as well getting a total of 1078, since have pr'd to over 1100. we have a raw lifter in our gym that has pulled 673 raw in the 220's for state record for any weight class and a teen that has pulled into the low-mid 600s for national records in dead and squat. i was just thinking about seeing if there were other powerlifters here. thats crazy you cut down to 165s from a normal lean body weight of 191 my lifts would tank if i tried that.