tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post7405826526567139638..comments2018-02-17T11:34:07.652-08:00Comments on Say No To Life: The Pollyannism of Richard DawkinsKarlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-57993659484440403572012-05-19T18:21:08.085-07:002012-05-19T18:21:08.085-07:00@Bazompora,
Thanks for providing the blog´s access...@Bazompora,<br />Thanks for providing the blog´s access. <br /><br />@Christoph<br />I´ll try and take care of this link problem anyway.Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-55402059058609117042012-05-19T16:27:28.391-07:002012-05-19T16:27:28.391-07:00You can also access Shadow&#39;s blog by clicking ...You can also access Shadow&#39;s blog by clicking it in the blog list in the column on the right; it&#39;s &quot;The last page&quot;.Bazomporahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05526010950254255163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-85431132182444324652012-05-19T10:21:48.511-07:002012-05-19T10:21:48.511-07:00Thanks, Shadow.
Sure, I&#39;ll check out your blo...Thanks, Shadow.<br /><br />Sure, I&#39;ll check out your blog, but you&#39;d need to link to it.<br /><br />I clicked your handle&#39;s hyperlink, but it says your Brogger profile is not publicly available.Christophhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08419938664333559498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-16145376098687368572012-05-19T09:37:55.687-07:002012-05-19T09:37:55.687-07:00Cristoph,
We are all in the same page as you man....Cristoph,<br /><br />We are all in the same page as you man. You can count on that. <br /><br />I´ve read all your comments in the posts of Karl´s blog. You can be sure we are on your side on this one.<br /><br />If you want, you can check out my blog as well, since I´m an associate of Karl´s, and I don´t think he´d mind my advertising. <br /><br />Anywho, it was, in a strange way, good to reading your comments, as it always is when we feel that sense of connection with anyone.<br /><br />To echoe Karl, hope you are doing ok. As ok as one can be to keep on this existence.Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-42460593495866578682012-05-19T09:14:12.547-07:002012-05-19T09:14:12.547-07:00Thanks, Karl.Thanks, Karl.Christophhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08419938664333559498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-65903048750594588172012-05-19T06:39:39.694-07:002012-05-19T06:39:39.694-07:00Christoph, thanks for all of your comments on the ...Christoph, thanks for all of your comments on the various posts. I hope you don&#39;t mind if I don&#39;t reply to them all. I think the John Gray podcast might be this one:<br /><br />http://benatlas.com/2011/05/john-gray-theos-lecture-on-the-new-atheism/<br /><br />Hope you&#39;re doing ok.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-26660211316234205362012-05-18T21:25:21.478-07:002012-05-18T21:25:21.478-07:00Karl, can you please link me to the John Gray podc...Karl, can you please link me to the John Gray podcast Jim refers to below, if you know it?<br /><br />That would be kind if you can.Christophhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08419938664333559498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-16257941253436020042012-05-18T20:52:06.713-07:002012-05-18T20:52:06.713-07:00This.This.Christophhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08419938664333559498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-5386909096945200042011-08-18T03:21:50.969-07:002011-08-18T03:21:50.969-07:00Yup, take these guys out of their bubble and see h...Yup, take these guys out of their bubble and see how they feel about existence then!Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-62289887196451825352011-08-16T05:02:31.695-07:002011-08-16T05:02:31.695-07:00Haha, that anonymus comment was gold.Haha, that anonymus comment was gold.Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-10970607506045670102011-08-15T18:52:00.391-07:002011-08-15T18:52:00.391-07:00You have to realize, Dawkins gets to make a good l...You have to realize, Dawkins gets to make a good living working at something he enjoys (and not very hard at that), so it&#39;s easy for him to have a happier view of life. If he had to work at Walmart or in some dismal cubicle, living in a shitty apartment or with his parents, and jerking himself to sleep every night, he might not be so fucking cheerful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-45427640657048124792011-06-13T05:38:13.769-07:002011-06-13T05:38:13.769-07:00Haha! I didnt know that about him.Haha! I didnt know that about him.Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-58267848964030868532011-06-13T03:38:31.247-07:002011-06-13T03:38:31.247-07:00GottaName: Interesting hypothesis re.Dawkins. It&#...GottaName: Interesting hypothesis re.Dawkins. It&#39;s true that these guys need to reach a mass audience, so they pour a lot of &quot;wonder&quot; and &quot;awe&quot; into the pot and serve up a Pollyanna pie. I&#39;m generally wary of going ad hominem, but I can&#39;t help observe that the kind of life Dawkins leads is highly privileged: wealth, fame, guaranteed audience and so on. (I once attended a lecture by him and the level of fawning adulation he received was scary.)Interesting also to note that he and his cadre are setting up a new, incredibly expensive university for the kids of the rich:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jun/05/new-university-college-humanities-degreesKarlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-2099946033417094742011-06-12T12:37:22.842-07:002011-06-12T12:37:22.842-07:00Dawkins simply discovered that he needed to wax po...Dawkins simply discovered that he needed to wax poetic in order to &quot;seem human&quot; and appeal to the masses. How else to scrape by in his field if not by breaking into the popular-science realm? Next stop: Oprah&#39;s book club.GottaNamenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-66108765981780295672011-06-11T13:53:16.201-07:002011-06-11T13:53:16.201-07:00Shadow, nice line about sheding darkness on the li...Shadow, nice line about sheding darkness on the light:-)<br /><br />Francois, the only motivation I can think of for choosing to exist is an unbridled egotism. Sadly, when we contemplate people choosing to bring new life into existence, we see displaced egotism at its worst.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-47954520839400291022011-06-11T13:32:27.704-07:002011-06-11T13:32:27.704-07:00Karl: interesting that you mention the Original Po...Karl: interesting that you mention the Original Position argument, because I&#39;ve been thinking about it too. I think it&#39;s definitely a valid antinatalist argument. What sort of motivation could any being possibly have to desire to begin to exist?Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-50427210347318560172011-06-10T08:13:36.223-07:002011-06-10T08:13:36.223-07:00Good pointing, Karl.
&quot;Powerful words, worthy...Good pointing, Karl.<br /><br />&quot;Powerful words, worthy of Ecclesiastes, Schopenhauer, Cioran and all of the other great sages of darkness&quot;. <br /><br />And to conclude:<br /><br />&quot;And, of course, to those who aren’t blinkered, all perfectly true.&quot; <br /><br />There are some many blinkered ones, that we can get frustrated at times. But let´s continue climbing the mountain. There´s still more light to shed on the darkness (or darkness to shed on the light) =).Shadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661651568618624065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-53357277155353078502011-06-10T06:52:05.586-07:002011-06-10T06:52:05.586-07:00Jim, did You mention Singer as an example with whi...Jim, did You mention Singer as an example with which most others wouldn&#39;t want to be seen agreeing, because of his controversial arguments, even when he is right (as he often is, I think)? Or do You mean that Singer has a certain understanding of antinatalism, but doesn&#39;t dare to agree? Like here: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/should-this-be-the-last-generation/<br /><br />It is strange that a lot of people even ignore Singers rejection of antinatalism from that article and just lump Singar and Benatar together, and then rant away. Probably because they don&#39;t like either of them, but even more so because they probably don&#39;t like (or are capable of) rational thought and philosophy in general. Thera are many articles and stuff to this end.<br />It really is a taboo.robhttp://antinatalismus.denoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-49130766147574792162011-06-09T04:14:32.956-07:002011-06-09T04:14:32.956-07:00Absolutely, Jim. Even in the work of John Rawls - ...Absolutely, Jim. Even in the work of John Rawls - America&#39;s most famous political philsopher of recent times - he tries to find principles for designing an ideal society from behind a &quot;veil of ignorance&quot;, but never considers the possibility that the best society is no society. It&#39;s the equivalent of being told that a foetus is hideously malformed, but deciding to go ahead with the birth anyway.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-81312491776803596922011-06-08T08:54:29.310-07:002011-06-08T08:54:29.310-07:00I listened to a nice podcast of John Gray that I b...I listened to a nice podcast of John Gray that I believe you linked me too, Karl. Coincidentally, somebody else sent me some of his material at right around the same time. <br /><br />You&#39;re most likely correct about Harris, since it only seems acceptable to discuss controversial subjects within the boundaries of &#39;but of course, the show MUST go on&#39;. The need for life to continue indefinitely is always the backdrop, isn&#39;t it? Which is why I&#39;ve labeled antinatalism &#39;the greatest taboo&#39;. I honestly can&#39;t think of a greater, more universal one, unnoticed by most only because the bogeyman is shrouded over by the tacit assumption.metamorphhhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12754527748086296743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-84397204652575859292011-06-08T05:25:51.320-07:002011-06-08T05:25:51.320-07:00Francois, thanks for the nice comment.
Pieter, mo...Francois, thanks for the nice comment.<br /><br />Pieter, more does indeed need to be said about this topic as it is quite vital and trips up most camps outside anti-natalism. Perhaps it may even provide the ground for a common understanding of the issues.<br /><br />filrabat, thanks for referring to Jim&#39;s post. I&#39;d remembered its existence, but couldn&#39;t locate it (although I commented on it myself). Jim&#39;s take is certainly more comprehensive than mine. Here&#39;s a link to Benatar&#39;s take on the same topic: <br /><br />http://vorosh.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html<br /><br />Jim, thanks for the compliment. Re.Harris, I&#39;ve been reading and hearing a bit of him lately. I may be caricaturing him slightly,but he strikes me as just another one of the science-worshipping crowd who believes that all humanity will converge on universal values; needless to say, those values bear a curious resemblance to the American brand of neo-liberal, ultra-capitalist ideology that prevails now. For example, his reply to the work of Noam Chomsky is (roughly) that it&#39;s ok when America causes havoc in the world because &quot;our&quot; intentions are good, whatever about the results, whereas &quot;their&quot; motives are nihilistic. I may write more on this at some point. The work of the British philosopher John Gray is the best antidote to this nonsense. Check him out.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16333013979246343381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-37281597903151415872011-06-07T23:35:33.281-07:002011-06-07T23:35:33.281-07:00Great dovetailing of Dawkins&#39; rather contradic...Great dovetailing of Dawkins&#39; rather contradictory statements/worldview, Karl. Bravo!<br /><br />As much as I applaud Dawkins&#39; efforts to address the superstitious heritage most of the world still labors under, I find his inquiry into the existential problem we face hopelessly one-dimensional and inadequate in the extreme. Of all the &#39;new atheists&#39;, I&#39;d be most curious to read Sam Harris&#39; take on the matter, as he seems the most philosophically oriented of the bunch. I could be wrong, but I just get the feeling that he might find some sympathy for our worldview. I wouldn&#39;t expect his public endorsement (consider Peter Singer), but I think he&#39;d at least get a handle on what we&#39;re saying.metamorphhhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12754527748086296743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-10940152452198068852011-06-07T04:22:10.812-07:002011-06-07T04:22:10.812-07:00I must admit, I was also one of those &quot;the Un...I must admit, I was also one of those &quot;the Universe is beautiful&quot; types when I was young(er), and to some extent this is true. Strictly speaking, there is no contradiction: the universe can be both <i>beautiful</i> (in the esthetic sense) and <i>bad</i> (in the moral sense), simultaneously.The Plague Doctornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-29076809106470090432011-06-07T01:00:22.827-07:002011-06-07T01:00:22.827-07:00Great to bring this up, Karl.
Not to steal your t...Great to bring this up, Karl.<br /><br />Not to steal your thunder, but Jim has a great response to Dawkins on his antinatalism blog (blog post is <a href="http://antinatalism.blogspot.com/2008/02/richard-dawkins-blindspot.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Even most secularists worship life and defend it just as fanatically and narrow-mindedly as the most fervent Fundamentalist is about their interpretation of the Bible and &quot;God&#39;s Will&quot;.filrabathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09630805408813112175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8867661364278254071.post-28399652325423938772011-06-07T00:59:27.759-07:002011-06-07T00:59:27.759-07:00Great point, this dilemna is a problem for religio...Great point, this dilemna is a problem for religious and atheists alike, if they honestly examine the brutal horrors of nature. I would hope some intelligent philosophers have already made some progress here. Take the death scene from Blade Runner, for example; some people would rather be in alive in terrible pain then dead.Pieterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06228209356784081711noreply@blogger.com