First of all and once and for all, dammit, when referring to grapes we are talking about "varieties" and not "varietals". Having so catharted, what do you consider the king of red grape varieties? And, of course, why that one? (Next week – the Empress of White Grape Varieties)

Daniel Rogov wrote:First of all and once and for all, dammit, when referring to grapes we are talking about "varieties" and not "varietals". Having so catharted, what do you consider the king of red grape varieties? And, of course, why that one? (Next week – the Empress of White Grape Varieties)

Thank you for that well-pointed rant, Rogov. I'm with you ... to restate it, "variety" is a noun, "varietal" is an adjective. I don't much blame wine consumers for slipping up, because the wrong form is heard so often. But it makes me berserk when wine writers abuse it.

Your poll is interesting, because it forces the voter to choose between voting with the heart for a personal favorite or with the head for the variety that truly earns a pride of place that wine enthusiasts can generally agree upon. On that basis, I've got to go with Pinot Noir. It's a close fight with Cabernet in terms of its ability to make wines of true greatness, but it stands alone, leaving Cab in the dust, as a wine of broad and versatile food-friendliness. And is that not a big part of what wine is all about? Cab and beef or lamb; Pinot with just about everything.

I voted for Cabernet Sauvignon. Much as I enjoy other reds, when it comes down to trying to pick out something to relax with at the end of a stressful week, I look primarily for a Cabernet Sauvignon, because i find more depth and richness in better cabernet sauvignons.

to choose between voting with the heart for a personal favorite or with the head for the variety that truly earns a pride of place that wine enthusiasts can generally agree upon

Robin's comments made me reflect further on why I voted for shiraz. It's my personal favourite ... but why? I think I can say that of the most beautiful red wines I have had in my life, most have been shiraz or a blend that relied heavily on shiraz. This variety is king in South Australia. The dry, hot conditions during the fruiting and ripening period bring out the best in this grape. I know makers of mass-consumption wines and crowd-pleasers can be guilty of coaxing too much sweetness, too much unguency from this variety - but the best shiraz is capable of such elegance, boldness and complexity that it is another experience altogether.

Which brings me to .... are different varieties 'king' in different parts of the world? Is it the particular combination of climate, terroir, technique and taste (as in fashion or preference rather than flavour) in any given place that makes a 'king' of the grape that responds best in those conditions?

Matilda L wrote:Which brings me to .... are different varieties 'king' in different parts of the world? Is it the particular combination of climate, terroir, technique and taste (as in fashion or preference rather than flavour) in any given place that makes a 'king' of the grape that responds best in those conditions?

That's a truly perceptive observation, Matilda. I think you have hit the nail smack on the head: Shiraz in the Barossa and McLaren Vale, Syrah in the Northern Rhone; Pinot Noir in Burgundy, Cabernet Sauvignon in Bordeaux and Napa, Nebbiolo in Piemonte, and so it goes.

I would say that this realm remains limited, though. Not every dukedom carries enough weight to enthrone a king. (I wouldn't call Nero d'Avola the "King" in Sicily, for instance, or Refosco in Friuli-Venezia Guilia ... )

I'll agree that many regions have their "primary" and even potentially great grape but when I think of kings, emperors or caesars, I think of those grapes that are capable of producing great wines that are is in turn capable of being bottled and then consumed anywhere in the world. Walk into a fine wine shop in London, in New York, even in Tel Aviv and you will find each of the varietals already named from each of the countries in question.

To me the question is which grape will be the king of all of the princes. I'm easy on bestowing dukedoms and other such but when it comes to kings, I'm a bit more particular.

Purposely holding back on my own vote and revelation of choice towards the end of the week as I may have a few somewhat controversial ideas to present as well.

I basically agree with Robin on this one. I would actually rephrase the question as which "wine makes you go weak in the knees when it's right". By that criterion it's Pinot Noir for me. Add to that it's ability to accompany almost any food and it's no contest.

KenLord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't.

Robin's point is well taken – making the distinction between that grape that for reasons of taste we deem to be king and that which indeed is king.

As to personal taste, I would have to vote for Cabernet Sauvignon as producing the greatest wines of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries, "greatest" in this case being defined by a combination of out-and-out quality and age-worthiness.

From a more quantitative point of view my vote would be different and that partly because of the issue of parentage. Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Pinotage, Merlot and Nebbiolo might all be considered the bastard and accidental offspring of other grapes (Cabernet Sauvignon an accidental cross between Cabernet Franc and Sauvignon Blanc; Syrah of Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche; Pinotage of Pinot Noir and Cinsault; Merlot somewhat a confused offspring of Cabernet Franc and Carmenere; Nebbiolo most probably a cross between Freisa, Negera, Vespolina, Rossola and Bubbierasco and Sangiovese the offspring of Ciliegiolo and Calabrese Montenuovo).

Now - we have seen quite enough problems throughout history of bastard sons and even a few bastard daughters killing their parents, siblings and other rivals, so I'm not ready to take on such a bastard as my king. My vote thus goes to Pinor Noir, pure and noble of birth and indeed producing some of the world's truly greatest wines.

It was Andre Tchelistcheff who declared that "God made Cabernet Sauvignon whereas the devil made Pinot Noir". In this case my heart goes with God but my vote goes to the devil.

Not second or third rank - although I did that recently in another thread and it was interesting to see how people ranked the lower echelons.(I'm still smarting because I forgot to include Nebbiolo as a first rank grape!)

It seems almost a cliche, but if there is a king of reds, then it is in fact Cab Sauv. On the other hand, as I have said before, Cab Sauv may be kingly, but only the 'Blood of Jove' is godly! (Sangiovese => Sanguis + Jovis = Blood of Jove = Blood of Zeus)

"The sun, with all those planets revolving about it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else to do"Galileo Galilei

(avatar: me next to the WIYN 3.5 meter telescope at Kitt Peak National Observatory)

Actually, Ryan, the only grape other than cab that caused me even a moment of thought was pinot and I can sympathize with anyone that chooses that grape over cabernet. Perhaps I, too, could have become a Burgophile if the grape just wasn't so frustrating and the best wines so expensive. Actually, I don't mind the best ones being expensive, it is buying all the rest at exorbitant prices and finding out that they AREN'T the best that galls one.

Bill Spohn wrote:Actually, Ryan, the only grape other than cab that caused me even a moment of thought was pinot and I can sympathize with anyone that chooses that grape over cabernet. Perhaps I, too, could have become a Burgophile if the grape just wasn't so frustrating and the best wines so expensive. Actually, I don't mind the best ones being expensive, it is buying all the rest at exorbitant prices and finding out that they AREN'T the best that galls one.

Certainly Pinot would be a strong contender (if one puts aside its fickle nature). Syrah would be a legitimate choice as well. I would not vote for Sangiovese, because I wouldn't want to insult it by calling it 'merely kingly.' Now in Italy, I say Nebbiolo would be king - but Sangiovese would be Emperor (seriously)!

"The sun, with all those planets revolving about it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else to do"Galileo Galilei

(avatar: me next to the WIYN 3.5 meter telescope at Kitt Peak National Observatory)

The question is a bit ridiculous..while you may state that you prefer apples to oranges in general --there is the particular wherein an orange is so special and outstanding it may transport you to rapture and that orange experience may exceed any that any apple gave you so far in your taste experience....similarly you may a general preference for one red grape variety over all the others but in particular cases one or several of those others might be KING over any taste experience you have ever had from the variety you stated a general preference for...

Another problem would be particular scoring--if you prefer Cab Sauvs to Pinot Noirs in general,perhaps you would prefer a 90 scored Cab Sauv to a 95 scored Pinot Noir even if the same critic had scored them both...One wonders if that critic would then agree with you as to which was the better wine and KING (at least between these two).

Then there is the "when" problem....Maybe you taste some really great Malbec now-it transports you to heaven and you rate it 5/5--it can't possibly be more enjoyable--YET because some critic rates some Aussie Shiraz costing 20 times more as a 100--the best ever Shiraz from that producer --well how can you possibly put your inexpensive Malbec up into that august company? Even if the recommended drinking window for that Shiraz is 25 years hence --when you might be dead and never get tovtaste it! In such cases you are valuing reputation overyour actual taste experience...You may think the Shiraz is worthy of being KING over your Malbec-but in 25 yeras --even if you taste it then--mayvbe your taste buds have gone south and you cannot longer appreciate the wine as someone else could...

The only criteria in judging which is King is to taste NOW different vintages and varieties and if you can find one that transports you to a higher paradise--then that is KING--for now. Otherwise its back to apples and oranges and straight preference/personal prejuidices in making generalizations...