How does haste devalue 20% off-DR parry? How does ANY stat devalue that for that matter? 20% extra parry is 20% extra parry, and when used with army it is another 20% dmg reduction for about ~50% total dmg reduction during army's cast.

He needs to fix his gems for one thing, unless I'm super out of touch and stam stacking is a thing again. Also if he's having problems with aggro as a blood DK, tell him to good "how to play a blood DK"

It's like crossing an intersection. There's shit going on all over the place and you don't panic and act like an idiot then do you?

Reforging into dodge from parry, be better to reforge into exp (even it puts u over 7.5%) or even haste.

Is there something special about DK and expertise that i'm not aware of? You don't double dip (removing both dodge and parry) with expertise any longer before 7.5% so it looks to me just as good as 3.7% or 11.24%. Expertise is all about control (and damage to be fair), having 15% guarantess you that your next style won't get avoided. That's not such a big of a concern for DK due to how their resource system works.

To get the picture: your tank needs to deal 1/5 of your dps to compete, if they don't your melee will likely pull aggro. If all your dps pull a potion pre pull your tank should do that as well. Thanks to their tanking stance it's five time as benefical for threat generation.

Of course holding back is also an option (unless enrage matters) but when you want your dps to pull off their best you should try to contribute as much as you can to help them. On top of that glyphed DRW is a decent tool to get a bigger lead, allowing you to only deal 1/10 of your dps damage to compete successfully for threat. Yes, you won't have it right of the bat but it should be avaible soon enough after pull to guarantee a successful start. It might be somewhat baffling to throw a defensive cooldown away just like that but in doubt try to work on one thing that bothers you right now before working on other problems... if there are any. Regulary you'll have it back in 90s so what's the matter?

Else: have your paladin pull the boss, simply as that. You can still taunt off him before any special ability takes place.

Originally Posted by Arekk

Specific fights like? Don't tell me Lei Shen.

You can also avoid Frigid Assault on Council, Snapping Bite on Tortos, Infected Talons on Ji-Kun or the cone attack on Primordius to name a few.

Is there something special about DK and expertise that i'm not aware of? You don't double dip (removing both dodge and parry) with expertise any longer before 7.5% so it looks to me just as good as 3.7% or 11.24%. Expertise is all about control (and damage to be fair), having 15% guarantess you that your next style won't get avoided. That's not such a big of a concern for DK due to how their resource system works.

How does haste devalue 20% off-DR parry? How does ANY stat devalue that for that matter? 20% extra parry is 20% extra parry, and when used with army it is another 20% dmg reduction for about ~50% total dmg reduction during army's cast.

I never said that it devalues the 20% parry gained from DRW. What I said is that you gimp DRW, for example: which would you rather have 35% parry when the aforementioned ability is up or 45%? Not prioritizing parry above haste and dodge DOES make gimp the potential overall yield of parry gained from using DRW.

To clarify and to defend him a little bit, he was completely mastery gemmed when I posted this thread. I think he may just be testing some things out, he hasn't stamina stacked the entire expansion, and he swapped to conversion last raid night (wednesday) because he got the 4pc and wanted to try it, what with the excess runic power and whatnot.

I never said that it devalues the 20% parry gained from DRW. What I said is that you gimp DRW, for example: which would you rather have 35% parry when the aforementioned ability is up or 45%? Not prioritizing parry above haste and dodge DOES make gimp the potential overall yield of parry gained from using DRW.

I'd still rather take the haste. Using DRW to cheese certain attacks is still limited by RNG, no matter how much parry you have.
Also, to get that 10% more parry like in your example you need ~9000 parry rating. That amount of haste rating would net you over 20% haste, which is pretty massive.

I'd still rather take the haste. Using DRW to cheese certain attacks is still limited by RNG, no matter how much parry you have.
Also, to get that 10% more parry like in your example you need ~9000 parry rating. That amount of haste rating would net you over 20% haste, which is pretty massive.

Bro, I picked a random number out of my head to illustrate a point, it was taken to be taken literal hence why I said 'for example'. I was basically saying that the parry you gain by prioritizing it over haste will improve the performance of DRW whether it is used to cheese a mechanic or simply used as intended: as a cd to reduce your intake of melee swings for a brief period of time. If you want to prioritize haste then cool go for it, no one is forcing you to do otherwise. I'm merely offering advice and giving reasons for it is valid. But as always, play styles will differ from person to person and that does not mean that said styles are wrong. What works for one person may not work for another...etc. Anyway, cheers and happy raiding.

I play a DK tank..rerolled now to a prot paladin and its a hell of a lot better than DKs right now
Why do you think riggnaros another great dk tank rerolled as a healer..DKs weren't really cutting it this tier

Rigg didn't reroll as a healer. He's playing his monk as his main because it performed better 15 ilvls lower for Lei Shen then his DK did.

DK threat is a non-concern for anyone pressing their buttons. The main threshold, especially on the pull, is that a lot of dks tend to monitor their death strikes SOO much that they begin to forget about DPS and TPS on the pull while waiting for their health to move and death strike usage to become optimal. The opener is more like a dps rotation than a tank rotation. This situation is impacted by T15 being the same as T12 where the dk model was less than favorable, forcing you to play more defensively while other tanks were capable of still pushing damage.

The other thing he's welcome to do (even though it's still basically a trap glyph under most circumstances) is glyph DRW. It does significantly increase threat generation on the pull. As a matter of fact, Riggnaros uses it on his DK for that very reason.

Rigg didn't reroll as a healer. He's playing his monk as his main because it performed better 15 ilvls lower for Lei Shen then his DK did.

DK threat is a non-concern for anyone pressing their buttons. The main threshold, especially on the pull, is that a lot of dks tend to monitor their death strikes SOO much that they begin to forget about DPS and TPS on the pull while waiting for their health to move and death strike usage to become optimal. The opener is more like a dps rotation than a tank rotation. This situation is impacted by T15 being the same as T12 where the dk model was less than favorable, forcing you to play more defensively while other tanks were capable of still pushing damage.

The other thing he's welcome to do (even though it's still basically a trap glyph under most circumstances) is glyph DRW. It does significantly increase threat generation on the pull. As a matter of fact, Riggnaros uses it on his DK for that very reason.

Care to explain why most top tier guilds are recruiting mostly paladins and monks

as a top tier dk myself...i felt we were not at that level of dps other tanks were pulling due to the fact other tanks could gem towards haste and crit without losing that much survivability and still be able to maintain during progression.