i don't even care about numbers if he showed an ounce of heart and hustle I'd like him.

last time i checked there are millions of players trying to make it to the nba. You don't stick around and lead your team in scoring and average top 15 in the league with no heart and hustle. If he could have mustered an extraordianry amount of heart and hustle then his rebounding would have been up as well.

I also appreciate his honest and frank assessment of both himself and the coaching staff. He seems to understand that whether he's a C or PF, he needs to rebound more and make a consistent better effort on defense.

It's interesting the way he pointed out that this year he was expected to shoulder the offensive burden in Bosh's absence, so he worked on getting better offensively in the offseason and he was definitely much better and more consistent on the offensive end. Ideally, I'd like to think that the coaching staff gave him a priority to work on and he has the ability to improve. If last year's priority was offensive, you make this year's priority rebounding and defense and see how much improvement he can show next season. I think even moreso than before that the Raps should keep Bargnani at least one more season - next season will be critical to see growth in his rebounding and defense, then the decision to keep or cut ties with him should be made.

Another interesting point is about the team defense. I absolutely agree that any team needs time to gel into a cohesive defensive unit. Young players need even more time, since they tend to focus on improving individually before they even start thinking about improving the team defense. When you consider the revolving-door starting lineup the Raps had all season, given injuries, it's no wonder they are behind schedule on building lineup chemistry and therefore team defense. I believe they Raps need to commit to a young starting lineup next training camp and stick with them as a unit, regardless of record, to help your future core develop that chemistry as a unit. ie: if they luck out and draft Irving, you start a lineup with Irving, DeRozan, James Johnson (or another young SF that they get via draft/free agency/trade), Davis and Bargnani... let that core 5 grow together while on the floor together, then you are truly rebuilding.

What exactly does he think will be different if he officially moved to PF? For the majority of the season, he defended and was defended by the opposing team's PF. In many ways, he DID play PF this season, it's just he didn't play it beside a legit center. Does he think a legit center is going to help him rebound or play better defense? Both Amir and Davis are above average defenders, especially on help defense, so it's not as if a good defensive center is really going to make that much difference unless his name is Dwight Howard.

It's great that he's got a thick skin, but sometimes I wish he'd take the criticism he receives a little more personally. It might do him some good.

This whole Bargnani is a PF argument is a little ridiculous and seems to me to be yet another in long, long line of excuses.

last time i checked there are millions of players trying to make it to the nba. You don't stick around and lead your team in scoring and average top 15 in the league with no heart and hustle. If he could have mustered an extraordianry amount of heart and hustle then his rebounding would have been up as well.

This whole Bargnani is a PF argument is a little ridiculous and seems to me to be yet another in long, long line of excuses.

It is just another excuse. As you point out, on offense he is already guarded by PFs and even SFs on occassion. He is a stretch 4. He's not playing in the blocks or as a pivot. On defense, if you play a big 5 beside Bargs he is stuck guarding quicker 4s, which he can't do. In any case, on defense, he always guards the other team's poorest offensive option in the front court. It's by design. This "he's really a PF and he's playing out of position" stuff is nonsense.

Michael Grange: "Bargnani: the door is to your left"

With the Toronto Raptors season over and the franchise’s future almost never more uncertain, the question begins in earnest: Is Andrea Bargnani worth it?

The spike in scoring – from 17.2 points a game to 21.4 a game; (second among centres in the NBA his dwindling supporters would tell you) – came from more trips to the free throw line (a career-high 5.3 per game) and more shots ... but obscured his decline in every rebounding measure, in blocked shots, in shooting percentage and an increase in turnovers.

The only argument in his favour; the only thing that prevents him from being an albatross is that he is paid relatively affordably, by NBA standards, his four-year, $42-million contract not the kind of number that will have rival teams hanging up the phone.

When your head coach says getting you to play basic help defense and secure some rebounds is like “ asking a home-run hitter to bunt”; the ship has sailed.

Bargnani’s best contribution is as a reasonable contract for a player in his prime who can put up some shiney numbers. Played in shorter minutes against second-unit players – a 7-1 Jamaal Crawford – he might even emerge as a helpful piece on a good team.

But if the Raptors bring him back Bargnani would no longer be the person to blame for his status as one of the league’s official enigmas; a tease of a talent unable to harness it.

If he comes back the fault would lie with the person – whoever that might be -- who didn’t turn him into assets that will be able to help what will be infant core again next year.

A strong voice goes a long way. You are correct popular opinion seems to spreads really fast on this site and in the media as well.

Before this year was there any evidence to suggest Amir would be able to knock down an open jumper? Or Demar evolving so fast in only his second year? So believe it or not stranger things have happened. Have you ever though about how much a fool you would look like if bargnani doubled his defensive production. What if Bargnani averages 25 and 10 next year? Would that even be productive enough for you if the raptors are loosing? Or would you ramble on about how his help defense is horrible.

You know what also spreads quickly? The truth. I don't know what makes you think Bargnani is anything but a poor defensive player, but there is absolutely no evidence to back up this claim. While I'm no expert, I have a lot of confidence in my basketball knowledge, which has come through decades of playing, studying and some coaching. What I see when I watch Bargnani is an extremely poor help defender and below average man defender. His biggest problem is lack of defensive instincts. And that is a major, major problem because defensive is played instinctively. If you haven't got good defensive instincts by the time you're 25, you ain't getting them. It's great if Bargnani wants to work on defense, but how exactly does he do that? You learn defense by playing, and he's done plenty of that.

And was there evidence to suggest Amir could hit an open jumper? Sure. This is a quote from DraftExpress when he was drafted...

Offensively, he brings all the budding skills necessary for the “new age” power forward. Although the form on Johnson’s shot is poor, he still manages to consistently knock down jumpers all the way out to the NBA 3 point line.

A jumper is one of the easiest skills to learn. Loads of guys have come into the league with no outside shot and become above average shooters. All it takes is hard work and repetition. Bruce Bowen came into the NBA with a horrible jumper and ended up leading the league in 3 point shooting one year.

And the type of development that we've seen from DeMar is the type of development that you'd hope to see in any 21 year old second year lottery pick. Especially one that is as renowned a hard worker as he is.

I agree that stranger things have happened than Bargnani suddenly "getting it" defensively, but that's no way to approach the development of a player. You don't draft Ed Davis hoping he'll one day lead the league in scoring. Will I feel foolish if Bargnani suddenly becomes a defensive beast? No, why? I'll argue till I'm blue in the face if someone says that Ed Davis will become a 30 ppg scorer, but if he does, I'd be thrilled. I just think the chance of it happening are incredibly unlikely.

When Bargnani was drafted, I figured his ceiling was a 25 ppg scorer who was a below average rebounder and defender. Seems I've been right so far.

If Bargnani suddenly became a 25-10 player while playing good defense, why on earth would I continue to criticize him? You make it sound as if I'm criticizing him because I don't like him as a person. I have absolutely no feelings about him personally. I criticize him because he's a big man who is a poor rebounder and defender. If he suddenly became a good rebounder and defender, then why exactly would I continue to criticize him? I don't understand this comment.

Besides, if Bargnani DOESN'T become a good defensive player or rebounder, would YOU feel foolish?

DunkinDerozan wrote:

The same reason you’re speaking against bargnani.... hope it had nothing to do with your wife though because that would discredit all your bargnani post.

Excuse me? What exactly is this crack about? What does my wife have to do with this? She has absolutely no idea who Bargnani is and doesn't even watch basketball. It's these types of comments that make you look really bad, by the way. So I'd suggest you cut that sort of juvenile crap out.

I can just see Multi getting the shotguns ready and the grenades all lined up.

Pretty much everybody is saying how awful his defense is and the fact that he is a liability to this team, i say trade him and let him contribute where he can. Personally though, id make him a sixth man. I dont think he'll have a problem coming off the bench, maybe that will ignite something in him and make him realize that he actually needs to rebound and play defense. 10mil for a sixth man? maybe a bit above average but i dont think its that bad.

i can just see it tho in the RR forum, bargnani gets blamed, gets traded, we get scrubs, RR forum blames GM for getting scrubs. and the blaming continues.

I can just see Multi getting the shotguns ready and the grenades all lined up.

Pretty much everybody is saying how awful his defense is and the fact that he is a liability to this team, i say trade him and let him contribute where he can. Personally though, id make him a sixth man. I dont think he'll have a problem coming off the bench, maybe that will ignite something in him and make him realize that he actually needs to rebound and play defense. 10mil for a sixth man? maybe a bit above average but i dont think its that bad.

i can just see it tho in the RR forum, bargnani gets blamed, gets traded, we get scrubs, RR forum blames GM for getting scrubs. and the blaming continues.

i stand by the policy that i don't make personnel decisions, so i dont have an opinion of them.

if bargs is back, i'll be cheering for him. if he's traded, i'll be screaming for his bollocks to be hung from the rafters.

I completely agree. I just posted it in another forum but give the Timberwolves a call and offer up Andrea for their 1st round pick and some salary filler.

It's a weak draft with no clear cut stars and the Timeberwolves have not done well in their recent draft history. They'd be getting a former #1 who can score and is young and with Love grabbing boards Andrea would have a much better version of Reggie next to him.