From the official HBO press release: At Winterfell, Theon receives a visitor and holds down the fort. Arya calls in her final debt with Jaqen in a way that displeases him. Robb is betrayed. Tyrion and Varys find common ground. Dany ignores Jorah’s advice. Stannis and Davos approach their destination, and Davos is offered a reward.

In this episode, Jon Snow meets the Lord O’ Bones, and as we can see in the preview, Yara is her brother’s visitor, forcing him to realize the repercussions of his act.

Ours is the Fury: It’s not clear how far we’ll get into Arya’s storyline, but I’m hoping we get to see the results of her third naming carried out in this episode.

Judging by the previews if Tywin is leaving Harrenhal and if it all goes “by the book” what would be the point of her supposed third naming? Wouldn’t we need to see some certain prisoners being introduced to the story and as someone mentioned in a review of her plotlines the level of danger for her has been so low it’s difficult to see why she doesn’t just walk out of the camp anyway.

From the preview it looks like Arya names Tywin which displeases jaqen because Tywin is getting ready to leave. Arya will change the name at the end of this episode and we will see weasel soup for episode 10

Also curious as to what reward Davos is offered. It doesn’t feel like the right time to make him Hand of the King, and if they do that here AND have him in the Dragonstone dungeons in episode 10, then that’s a solid chunk of his ASOS storyline gone already.

The “Robb is betrayed” has me curious, since we have already seen him find out about Theon’s treachery, although he still has to learn about the bodies unveiled last week. Could this mean Talisa betrays him at the Crag? [Insert “She’s actually Jeyne Westerling after all!” theories here.] Or are they going to let on to the audience that Roose is going to turn on what he sees as the losing king?

Wolf of the North:
The “Robb is betrayed” has me curious, since we have already seen him find out about Theon’s treachery, although he still has to learn about the bodies unveiled last week. Could this mean Talisa betrays him at the Crag?[Insert “She’s actually Jeyne Westerling after all!” theories here.]Or are they going to let on to the audience that Roose is going to turn on what he sees as the losing king?

Robb is betrayed by his mother who frees Jaime as we saw in last weeks episode

Just wondering if Tyrion will finally be more active in the preparation for the defense of King’s Landing (the giant chain in Blackwater). I love how the show is coming along, but it’s sad that Tyrion’s story, as him making so many preparations for battle, is really downplayed….but then again i can understand trying to fit all this into 10 episodes can be a bit tricky. Here’s hoping the House of the Undying scene will be similar to the book.

According to a new interview with Rose Leslie, Jon’s going to have a rough time of it:

“…on Sunday’s episode (9/8c, HBO), he’ll get some hard lessons knocked into his naturally curly head by Ygritte’s wilding friends. ‘Now the tables are turned, you see. She’s no longer his prisoner…I’m very, very happy that the power has shifted back to me. You start to see a change within the relationship…I think she looks upon him in this episode in a different light, no more like the stupid-but-brave boy, but she’s beginning to see where he’s coming from and kind of sympathizes with him. He takes quite a beating, so she’s beginning to like him also. She softens towards him.'”

“Takes quite a beating” sounds like something physical is going to happen. That or some serious loyalty-testing.

Is it just me, or are the ads getting somewhat invasive? I just got a full-screen add with a redirect to the site. :/ I have popups and things blocked, but if it stays this way, I won’t come back as much.

oh-bb: Is it just me, or are the ads getting somewhat invasive? I just got a full-screen add with a redirect to the site. :/ I have popups and things blocked, but if it stays this way, I won’t come back as much.

Not just you. Last night the video game ad blocked all comment views for me. Really annoying.

Direhound: Judging by the previews if Tywin is leaving Harrenhal and if it all goes “by the book” what would be the point of her supposed third naming? Wouldn’t we need to see some certain prisoners being introduced to the story and as someone mentioned in a review of her plotlines the level of danger for her has been so low it’s difficult to see why she doesn’t just walk out of the camp anyway.

She’s not in a camp she can leave at any time, she’s in a castle with extremely large, thick walls. The level of danger she’s in isn’t overt but it’s obvious considering who she is and that she’s surrounded by Lannisters. The books were really no different, aside from her sadistic boss.

oh-bb:
Is it just me, or are the ads getting somewhat invasive? I just got a full-screen add with a redirect to the site. :/ I have popups and things blocked, but if it stays this way, I won’t come back as much.

I’m not getting any full-screen ads, just a click-through banner at the top and one on either side of the text field. Do you have an up-to-date virus/spyware/malware checker installed?

I bet Ghost makes a surprise attack on the wildling group and in the distraction Qhorin and Jon will escape with Ghost. They will still have their conversation, knowing that they will be captured soon enough by the remainder of the wildling group.

Klavonivs: Probably not, they’ll probably leave Jon’s storyarch off with him killing Quorin and joining the wildlings….we probably won’t see any giants until we see Mance next season.

I’m hoping that they end Jon’s story this season with him up on a cliff side, and then panning out to show a huge wildling host off in the distance, complete w/ giants & mammoths. Nothing too detailed, just a quick CGI shot.

I’m not expecting it… but I think that would really be a nice way to tease the non-readers and get them excited about the next season.

I wonder why Jaqen wouldn’t kill Tywin? In the book he offers to kill Joffrey. I was hoping they would keep that dioalogue so that people would understand how foolish Arya was with her 3 wishes/kills and how dangerous/skilled Jaqen is.

I had the same problem with the game of thrones game ad not letting me click into any of the comments and such on this site. I’m using the current version of Firefox and wondering if it had anything to do with my Yahoo web page displaying that way overboard MIB3 ad at the time. The ad disappeared about midnight, and I was able to click on the site then. Before then I used my Explorer browser and no ad or difficulty clicking in WIC at all.

Turncloak: Sry, I don’t think there’s an easy way to post spoiler tags from an iPhone

Have you tried inserting the <b> and </b> HTML tags manually? Normally, these now-deprecated tags imply boldface text but WiC.net’s software automagically replaces them with other tags that turn the text background black.

Lord Of Lite:
I had the same problem with the game of thrones game ad not letting me click into any of the comments and such on this site.I’m using the current version of Firefox and wondering if it had anything to do with my Yahoo web page displaying that way overboard MIB3 ad at the time.The ad disappeared about midnight, and I was able to click on the site then.Before then I used my Explorer browser and no ad or difficulty clicking in WIC at all.

The problem with people being unable to click links on the site should have been fixed last night. If anyone is still having problems like this, please let me know via winteriscomingblog (at) gmail (dot) com.

If you are getting full screen ads and/or redirects to another site, that is likely something wrong on your PC. We don’t have any ads like that.

Who among you think that Cersei has imprisoned Ros believing her to be Tyrion’s love interest at the time. I don’t know what would give her that idea? Maybe Varys directed her attention to Ros as a favor to Tyrion.

Yeah, but there is no way they are going to have him kill Tywin. So it wouldn’t follow the books. It would be Jaqen denying her request for her third kill. In the book he denies her because she wants him to kill multiple people. Tywin is just one person and it makes no sense for Jaqen not to fulfill Arya’s request. I think it is just clever video editing that is meant to trick people.

Is it possible that they bring in the Northern prisoners in this episode? It would make sense if the hot Weasel soup were in the finale. I’m pretty sure Arya’s final scene will be Jaqen giving her the coin and changing his face. I expect Roose to take the castle at the beginning of season 3.

Yeah, but there is no way they are going to have him kill Tywin. So it wouldn’t follow the books. It would be Jaqen denying her request for her third kill. In the book he denies her because she wants him to kill multiple people. Tywin is just one person and it makes no sense for Jaqen not to fulfill Arya’s request. I think it is just clevervideo editing that is meant to trick people.

You are missing my point. I am suggesting that it could still work like the books if by the time we see this clip Jaqen has already denied her for similar reasons. What we are seeing here is her response to his reaction to her request that he kill himself.

I’m not saying that’s how it will be… but I could easily see it being that way, with (as you say) a clever video edit to imply something else.

Since the last episode is named Valar Morghulis I’m sort of hoping they’ll stretch Arya’s storyline out ’til then. Entertaining as the Arya / Tywin interaction has been ( mostly) I feel it’s come at a high cost to the Arya / Jaqen interaction of the books…which has long term implications for Arya. ( and reduces Jaqen to , well….comic relief in the case of the Lorch scenario. ) A woman will be really annoyed if they don’t bring that relationship round to it’s full import.

Obsidian:
Since the last episode is named Valar Morghulis I’m sort of hoping they’ll stretch Arya’s storyline out ’til then. Entertaining as the Arya / Tywin interaction has been ( mostly) I feel it’s come at a high cost to the Arya / Jaqen interaction of the books…which has long term implications for Arya. ( and reduces Jaqen to , well….comic relief in the case of the Lorch scenario. ) A woman will be really annoyed if they don’t bring that relationship round to it’s full import.

Edit: Thinking about it further, the problem I have with the Tywin add is that the Arya story is supposed to be about her going to this really dark, scared place and slowly finding her power through Jaqen’s dark arts.

I LOVE Tywin and Arya as a pair – the first scene, the “Anyone can be killed,” that was PERFECT, more of that! Less of these strange diatribes about the joys of reading. And for the love of the God let Jaqen be awesome!

I get the feeling Cersei is going to kill Shae (for threatening the handmaiden who was going to tell her about Sansa’s “flowering”). Consider, when Myrcella was sent to Dorne, she threatened Tyrion in a very similar fashion, and the preview seems to suggest Cersei did something awful to him.

If true, that would serve to soften both Tyrion and Tywin’s character a bit, because when it comes time for the former to kill the latter, noobs might sour on Tyrion a little when Shae becomes collateral damage (although, HBO has done a good job making her thoroughly unlikeable, up until the last episode). Similarly, HBO-Tywin doesn’t really strike me as the kind of guy who would steal his son’s prostitute. I could be wrong about that, but it appears they’re trying to make both characters more sympathetic. And if I’m right, Cersei will take the fall instead (just like Joffrey took the fall for her during the slaughter of the innocents; i.e. Cersei ordered it in the books, Joffrey on the show… That may sound contradictory, i.e. why cover for Cersei only to set her up?, but it’s more realistic, IMO. HBO-Cersei wouldn’t kill babies, but Joffrey would. HBO-Tyrion wouldn’t kill Shae, but Cersei would. It’s more believable, which isn’t to say the book’s not, but it’s much more difficult to translate a brutal medieval mentality on screen than it is on paper. You can rationalize it in theory, but when you actually see it play out, your modern sensibilities kick in).

Not saying that’s the move that I would make, but I’m getting the feeling HBO will.

No I think they need to explain it a bit – have them hanging around and then the first horn goes. They stand around in tense silence waiting for a second muttering ‘rangers or wildlings’. When it goes, they all grab their weapons and prepare for battle against the wildlings. And then the third horn goes they all freeze in horror and shock. And then the camera pans out and theres a fuck load of zombies charging up the hill towards them …then it ends.

@Varamyr Fourskins
First off sorry for my crappy grammar and spelling. Second this post contains spoilers, so only read if you have read all five books. So I myself am a book purist, yet I love what HBO is doing with the sereies. I’m not upset by the changes because simply put, film, wether it’s budget, technology or whatever, has not come far enough along to film a totaly purist take on A Song of Ice and Fire with out cutting any character at all, or changing the storylines of some of the minor characters. That being said, I think I can predict what characters are going to be killed off prematurly. Martin said think Tom Bombdail from Lord of The Rings. A great part in the novel,but ultimatly doesn’t progess the story further. Or think of Glorefindel syndrom.
So lets take a look at what characters have meet their ends earlier on the show than in the book or in a totaly different way than in the book.

Gared: In the novel he is the night’s watch man beheaded by Eddard, in the show he is killed by an Other.

Will: In the novel he is strangled by a wight, in the show he is beheaded by Eddard Stark.
Marillion: This one is still up for grabs. In the novel he survives until the 4th book until Littlefinger has him executed, and he keeps his tounge as well. In the show Marillion has his tongue cut out by Joffrey, while this happens in the book, the singer in question is not Marillion. It remains to be seen if Marillion will pop up back in the Vale on the show or if his role on the show is finid.

Mago: A Dothraki…I think I got the name right who is still alive in the books, but is killed by Drogo in the show.

Dany’s Silver: Ok, so maybe this doesn’t count…but whatever, the horse dies on the show…but in the book…I can’t quit remember, but I think it’s still alive.

The Tickler: Ok this is one thing I wish the show didn’t do, but the Tickler is the first guy Arya has Jaquen kill on the show, while in the book Jaquen kills a rapist named Chiswyck who is also one of the Mountain’s men. Tickler himself doesn’t die until the third book where Arya herself kills him, it’s one of Arya’s best scenes, and I wish they would have left it in the sereies.

Amory Lorch: In the show Amory is the second guy Arya has Jaquen kill, while in the book Roose Bolton has Amory feed to a bear.

Irri: Dany’s handmaiden who, in the show, seems to have been killed by the Warlocks of the house of the undieing. In the books she is alive and kicking!

Rakaro: Dany’s blood rider. In the show it is said he is killed by one of the Khals Dany vows to kill. In the books, he’s alive and well!

Ser Rodrick: While not to different than in the books, Rodrick is killed by Theon Greyjoy in the show, while in the books, Rodrick is killed by Ramsay Snow. Whats intresting to note is that what happens to Rodrick in the show is actually what happens to a character in the books who has been cut from the show. I forget the characters name, but he is the kennel maser at Winterfell. When he disrespects Theon, Theon of course decides to have im executed, but the guy demands Theon swing the sword, and Theon makes a mess of it, just like what he did to Rodrick in the show.

Lommy Greenhands: Ok so I know this is such a small change, and it doesn’t bother me one bit, but I want to have a complete list, in the books Lommy is killed by Raff the Sweetling. Raff puts a spear threw his throat. In the show Polevier kills Lommy by putting needle (Arya’s sword) threw his throat.

Now lets go over characters,who have lived longer than they actually do in the books.

Mhagen: All though she goes unamed in the books, she is killed, I believe, by Janos Slynt, when she refuses to give up her baby. In the show, as of now she is still alive, a minor change of no real importance, but I wish the show showed Janos killing her, it would have made him an even better villain.

Doreah: She dies in the beging of the second book, while so far on the show she is alive and kicking.

Mikken: A small, small character that only hardcore fans would probably know of, but he exist in the show and has been mentioned by name and was seen in episode 2 of season one and was played by an extra. Mikken is the blacksmith of Winterfell and the guy who forges needle. In the books, I believe Black Loren kills him when Theon invades Winterfell by putting a spear threw his throat, as for the show he’s alive and kicking! As far as I know.

Now for the intresting part, this next list is a list of characters who I believe will die in the show, and I’ll tell you why.

Ros and any other character invented for the show: Look these characters where made for the show, the creators can do whatever they want with them…and hey it’s Song of Ice and Fire, never hurts to up the body count. And they already killed off the Spice King and Alton Lannister. If it’s a character created for the show, expect them to die!

Bronn: This may come as a shocker, but I believe Bronn will probably die in the Battle of the Blackwater even thouh he’s alive and kicking as of the fifth book. Why do I think this? Well in the books, after the Blackwater, Bronn is married to I think Lollys and he’s either made a Lord or Knight or something and gets his own little place or whatever but asides from that he does absolutly nothing past book two asides just hang around and bothering the nobles and any interaction he has with Tyrion pass book 2 can easily be filled by Podrick Payne. He basicaly suffers from Glorfendel syndrom. Now unless Martin has actually told D&D that Bronn has an important role to play in the final two books, I just wouldn’t be surprised if he is killed off. Further more the show has a very limited time to show this whole story on screen. Yet they have developed Bronn into a great character, and giving him a good death scene at the Battle of the Black Water is a great way to end his story arc for the t.v. show. Further more, the t.v. show Bronn is taking the place of Jacylen Bywater, who is in fact killed at the Battle of the Black Water by an arrow threw his throat in the books. Just saying…

Shae: Another shocker, I think Shae will die before the end of season two and here is why. First, D&D have already said that they took Shae’s stroy in a different direction. Further more in the books there is a character named Chataya who is either the leader of Littlefinger’s brothel, or she owns her own brothel or something like that. In the books Tyrion needs her for something important, but I can’t remeber what it was, but it did involve Shae. Now in the books Cersei takes either Chayata or one Chayata’s whores name Alayaya and has them beatin or something like that, in order to get back at Tyrion for sending Myrcella away. This is when Tyion vows revenge on Cersei and says he will turn her joy to ashes in her mouth or whatever that line is. Now if you have been watching the trailers you know this scene between Tyrion and Cersei is in the show, but Chayata and Alayaya has been cut from the show completly. Now it seems that Ros has takin Chataya’s place, BUT Ros has had nothing to do with Tyrion in this season, and if memory serves me correct, in the books, Tyrion uses Chataya’s brothel in order to hide Shae, while in the show Tyrion disguises Shae as Sansa’s handmaid, which actually happens in the third book. Now in the show I believe Cersei will find out about Tyrion and Shae and have Shae killed by maybe…I dunno Meryn Trent. Thus the scene where Tyrion vows vengence against Cersei will occur. Now I know this is quit a departure from the books, but overall Shae’s actual death, while serving some purpose for both Tyrion’s and Tywin’s development as characters, does not really affect the overall story, so it makes since that the creators will kill her off by the end of this season. I hope I’m making some sense here.

Shagga: While alive and kicking in the books, he and the mountain clans really don’t do anything, so I expect them to either be killed at the Battle of the Blackwater on the show or just not mentioned again.

Dagmeir Cleftjaw: Still alive by the fifth book, I believe he will be killed on the show when Ramsay takes over Winterfell. Simply put, he doesn’t do anything important in the books after book two.

Rast: In the books he dies when the wildlings attack the wall. In the show I think he will be the one to mutniy against the Lord Commander and kill both him and Craster. Then I think he will try and stop Sam and Gilly from escaping, or he’ll try and rape Gilly or something like that, and either Sam, Grenn, Dolorus Edd, or Pyp will kill him. My bet is on it being Sam who makes Rast bite the dust.

Vargo Hoat: If he’s casted, and I’m sure he will be, I belive he will bite the dust differently than in the books. In the books Ser Gregor kills him wen he retakes Harrenhal. I personaly was disapointed because I thought that was completly anti climatic. In the show I could see him surviving and being killed by Brienne at the inns along with Rorge and Biter.

Meryn Trent: God I hope this isn’t the case but can see them doing this and here’s how. In the books Meryn trent is alive and well as of the fifth book. And if I had to choose just one person for Arya to kill n her list I would pick Meryn Trent because it would be awesome to see Arya bust out some bad ass assassin skills on Meryn and kill him. And if this happens in the boo, I diffently want to see it on the show. But I could see the show having Meryn take Ser Mandon Moores place, trying to assasinate Tyrion and having Podrick kill him at the battle of the blackwater.

TheGreat Jon: Now I believe one of two things will happen to him on the show. First, lets go over what happens to him in the books. He becomes one of Robb’s most loyal bannermen, and during the red wedding is taken captive at the twins where, by the fifth book, if memory serves me right he still remains. He doesn’t quit do anything important, so in the show I think he will either a.) be killed at the red wedding or b) take Wyman Manderly’s role. I actually believe option B is the better path for the show to take. Wyman and the Great Jon are basicaly the same character. In the show I can see the Great Jon returning north under Robb’s orders. He makes it back to his home killing Ironborns. His son the Small Jon, instead of being killed at the Red Wedding is takin captive. So after the Red Wedding, The Great Jon hears of the events, finds out his son is still alive and basically says he surrenders and supports the Freys. When the Freys and Davos come to see him, he of course plays the same role Manderly does, has his son returned to him by the Freys, sends Davos off to find Rickon in secret, and bakes the Freys into pies and feeds them to Roose Bolton and the gang.

So anyway, thats it so far for my predictions. I think they’ll turn out to be mostly right because of another prediction I made turned out to be true. When I heard they casted Lord Karstark for season two, I figured they would go with his orginal story in the books. He wants revenge for the death of his sons by Jamie’s hand yada yada yada, but they didn’t make any mention of his sons being Killed by Jamie in season 1. So I thought the only way to make this happen would be to have his sons be gaurding Jamie, and Jamie kill them both when he trys to escapes, AND thats exactly what happens. Only difference is Rickard only has one son in the show and he is in fact the gaurd Jamie strangles when he trys to escape. So anyhow thats it, you guys think my predictions for the show will come true or am I a crack pot?!

Tyrion Pimpslap: Pause the video at :20 or :21 seconds, right after Rattleshirt says “Gut him!” It is clearly the Halfhand.

Ah, now I do see the briefest glimpse of a man standing next to Jon. He appears to be wearing darker clothes than the wildlings, but that may be a lighting artefact. Also, it looks like the man has a goatee but no moustache, the tip of the nose doesn’t look like Simon Armstrong’s and, he’s not wearing Qhorin’s trademark cap. I’d say the evidence is inconclusive.

If arya name a name and its rejected that would be a huge departure from the books. Im already pissed at the episode for that. Painting jaquen as an ordinary man who owes her favors but “can only do so much” is crap.

Anyone else annoyed that John Snow was stupid enough to be captured like that in the tv show? And the fact that his brothers never bothered to come back for him after he disappeared? I don’t like it as it has made him seem a bit thick if you ask me. If he loses longclaw because of this I’ll be outraged. Other than that I too am enjoying most of their changes from the books.

Shae will either be maimed or dead by the end of the season. In season 3 when Tyrion has fallen from grace so to speak, he will find common ground once again with Ros. Ros will then take the place of Shae in season 3 and 4. This will work out because if anything, Ros should have been Shae to begin with, and secondly it would give emotional purchase to her story. This smug prostitute coming from the North to King’s Landing to be utterly devastated, transformed into a spy for Littlefinger and then by Tywin to betray Tyrion by pinning the Purple Wedding on him. And she will die, at Tyrion’s hands. She too will play at the Game of Thrones and lose.

Trust me, this was David and Dan’s plan all along. The very fact that Shae has begun looking out for Sansa, that she is gradually becoming more sympathetic is setting up for her maiming/death by Cersei’s hand. The girl she put a knife too will go to Cersei and under the pretence of disobedient service or what have you Shae will die a terrible death. Thus cementing the Cersei/Tyrion circle of hate. Ros will the fulfil the rest of the character’s arc in the following season.

Mormegil: Since your in this thread I presume you watched the preview that showed Qhorin is captured by the Wildlings as well? That’s why he never went looking for Jon.

They would have had to be captured pretty damn quickly, like the moment they went out of sight of Jon? Otherwise my point still stands. The fact that they have all been outsmarted completely is somewhat annoying, makes Qhorin look less badass too.

That’s what I had been thinking, but there’s none of the groundwork so far. Clearly, Cersei is going after somebody, but why would she think that hurting Ros would be a good way to get at Tyrion? I wouldn’t assume that Tyrion would give a shit, if I were in Cersei’s position. Unless there’s someone feeding her (incorrect, baseless) knowledge, the logic doesn’t add up. I’m starting to think she’ll get Shae herself, though having trouble imagining her being killed along the lines some are suggesting.

Speculation is that hodor is the son of nan and ser duncan the tall from the hedge knight series. Who was lord commander of kingsguard about 40yrs before the beginning of episode one. He was 7 feet tall and from fles bottom but visited winterfell with prince/king aegon the fifth. Dance with dragons almost confirms it. So no giants blood in hodor whatsoeverz. Brienne might be related to ser duncan the tall as well but not sure how.

Great stuff! I don’t know if any of that will come true, but it was a great read. Thanks!

This week’s episode has a lot to accomplish. A lot of plot lines need to be set up for The Blackwater next week and the final episode the week after. This week’s episode may be information overload for many non-book readers; but I’m looking forward to it!

Potential spoiler alert, please put discussion in spoiler tags if you respond to this post, Don’t read if you want to know anything.

A nonreader at TWOP (how ironic) pointed out that Dagmer’s sigil on his armor was destroyed. I thought surely someone would have picked it up-he must be wrong. I went back and watched the farm scene and sure enough the sigil looks like its been cut out with scissors. All of the rest of Theon have the kraken on their armor. Sure seems like a red flag in the Ramsey discussion

Again if you respond please put spoiler tags, some people don’t want to know the speculation.

Click on the images to expand them. Dagmer’s sigil is suspiciously hacked away from his chest, indeed. You can see Theon and some others have a light kraken impression imprinted on theirs, but Dagmer’s is missing.

OK, based on the preview I see one good potential way they may have altered the Arya story.

If they have her insiting Jaquen kill Tywin “right now” and Jaquen says it’ll happen but in time (and Tywin’s leaving), I could see her getting impatient and switching. In that case, they’ve simply replaced one problem (asking for >1 kill) with another (asking for 1 kill but not willing to wait for it).

Any other resolution at this point and I could just kick them for ruining the Jaquen thing.

and…

They would have had to be captured pretty damn quickly, like the moment they went out of sight of Jon? Otherwise my point still stands. The fact that they have all been outsmarted completely is somewhat annoying, makes Qhorin look less badass too.

Yes, the Jon scene when he first gets lost with Ygritte was bad on so many levels, and very situationally illogical. Kind of a shame they couldn’t think of any better way for Jon to have a long conversation with Ygritte.

I honestly think that Shae being killed here instead of later would be the most aggravating change they’ve made to the books so far (I’ve been surprisingly fond of most the changes, so that isn’t coming from a purist), but I think that its very very important that Tyrion’s murder of her be left intact.

Tyrion is not Ned Stark, yes he’s a deeply sympathetic character – but I’d hate for him to lose the complexity he has in the novels in an attempt at making him a more clear cut hero. His arc over the course of the first three books is a tragedy – his actions at the end should leave a sour taste in viewers mouths and make it seem entirely possible that he’s gone off the deep end into much darker waters.

Side-note, I’ve been liking the TV version of Shae more than most – she’s a bit abrasive but still has good chemistry with Tyrion and the scene last week with Sansa did a lot to make her likeable.

Well all I am saying is that something has to happen tomorrow in order for Tyrion to give Cersei the “I shall hate you for this” speech. Maybe Shae is maimed by a lashing, and slowly recovers over the next season and out of misguided anger at Tyrion for this happening to her, betrays him to Tywin?

Well all I am saying is that something has to happen tomorrow in order for Tyrion to give Cersei the “I shall hate you for this” speech. Maybe Shae is maimed by a lashing, and slowly recovers over the next season and out of misguided anger at Tyrion for this happening to her, betrays him to Tywin?

That or Tyrion strangles Ros in place of Shae.

Oh, yeah. The former of those is actually a perfectly solid idea – it gives Shae’s betrayal a bit more depth and motivation. Giving her more development with something like that would actually strengthen the punch the murder has – since she’s someone we know and care at least a little about.

Ros.. see, I guess that could work technically but there’s the problem that Ros is such a disliked, and at best not very developed, character that the audience reaction would probably be more of a “Kill the bitch!” than “Oh, Oh God, What the hell Tyrion?!” unless they did a reallllly good job of developing her.

For the first time, I thought Ros was really in her element as Littlefinger’s ladypimp lieutenant. I agree, any horrible fate for Ros would be a mite underwhelming, and probably unfit for the Shae scapegoat role the Summer Island girl is stuck with in the book, especially since Ros has very little to do with Tyrion. The Joffrey dissemination attempt wasn’t enough to strongly connect her to him. Cersei’s disapproval of that decision was directly addressed and not strong enough to paint Ros as a target.

I have to admit, the prospect of Shae actually taking the fall for, well, being a Shae, would make more sense in this series since she’s aloof yet kind, at least to Sansa. I’ll accept any correction, but I don’t personally recall her being that selfless in any way in the novels.

For the first time, I thought Ros was really in her element as Littlefinger’s ladypimp lieutenant. I agree, any horrible fate for Ros would be a mite underwhelming, and probably unfit for the Shae scapegoat role the Summer Island girl is stuck with in the book, especially since Ros has very little to do with Tyrion. The Joffrey dissemination attempt wasn’t enough to strongly connect her to him. Cersei’s disapproval of that decision was directly addressed and not strong enough to paint Ros as a target.

I have to admit, the prospect of Shae actually taking the fall for, well, being a Shae, would make more sense in this series since she’s aloof yet kind, at least to Sansa. I’ll accept any correction, but I don’t personally recall her being that selfless in any way in the novels.

Yeah, in the novels Shae isn’t really much of a character in her own right – which works with the way the books are written, since she’s not really supposed to be. She’s a sort of blank slate that Tyrion projects his feelings, good and bad, onto. Basically a walking symbol of Tyrion’s… not terribly mature feelings towards women.

Making her more of a character than that was certainly a good move on the shows part, especially since it’ll make whatever end she meets more emotionally engaging. If its at Cersei’s hand, loath that as I would, we’d at least feel the loss more strongly – and if its by Tyrion’s we’ll be all the more upset with him sinking so low.

While I’ve adapted to the adaptation’s version of her, I do miss that aspect of Shae’s presence in the book. As you said she brought out the “young and stupid” side of Tyrion as a sort of smoking hot Tysha fill-in, which was a poignant but also messy way of illustrating Tyrion’s longstanding vulnerability and the first time he has given in a little to his heart’s desires since Tysha. He hopes Shae loves him, he really hopes. I don’t see that dynamic with Kekilli’s Shae nearly so much. She hasn’t become his baggage quite convincingly yet, she’s just somewhat reflective of it. Not that I’m clamoring for on-screen blowjobs every episode, but we are seeing a comparatively puritanical relationship between them this season, and so we are denied the telling anxiousness we would see when Tyrion is with her, the boy who wanted to be loved. Just as I’m typing this, I’m a bit surprised we haven’t seen their private interactions this close to the Blackwater episode.

I’ll take the show as it is and be glad for it, but I do believe Tyrion and Shae’s relationship in the novels did a wonderful job of exposing who Tyrion was and still is when you strip him of everything else readers and viewers love about him. I agree Shae was more or less a blank slate, but she mesmerized me in the same way she must have mesmerized Tyrion. She made herself everything the young boy in a grown man could want, and to her credit, she was aware of her craft and excelled at it. She knew how to work people over for her own good, which made her more than one-dimensional, but simple enough to tell us that much more about the real Tyrion and not overshadow his characterization as much as enhance it.

It would kind of be reminiscent to the Gaea situation on Rome. Titus Pullo is besotted with Eirene, a slave girl that he takes as his own when recovering the treasury gold from thieves he finds her tied to the wagon. An attachment develops, completely non-sexual at first. Though there is some one sided romance when Pullo leaves for Greece to fight Caesar’s enemies. When he returns to Rome after the defeat of Pompey, Cato and Scipio he has trouble adjusting to civilian life. Whilst his prickly friend Vorenus is slowly becoming a Caesarean stooge.
When Pullo finds out that Eirene is to marry a slave boy (it’s love between slaves awww) he overreacts. That is, he brains the poor boy. Eirene tries many times to kill him, but gives into his charms eventually and they become a cute couple going into season 2.
When Vorenus starts a collegium to control the Aventine for Mark Antony, they enlist Gaea, who could aptly be called a warrior woman. Gaea falls for Pullo, seeing him as a kindred spirit. Jealous of Eirene and Pullo’s love especially since Eirene is with Pullo’s child. Gaea she pulls a Hoster and places the equivalent of ‘tansy’ in Eirene’s tea. The baby dies and Eirene bleeds to death in Pullo’s arms. Gaea comforts Pullo, they become lovers after he mourns and they team up with Vorenus and take down the rival collegium. Gaea is grievously wounded during the battle and dying she confesses to Pullo about killing Eirene. Pullo strangles her before she succumbs and drops her body into the Tiber as if it were trash.

I predict that Arya will ask Jaqen to kill Tywin quickly so that he cannot lead the Lannister’s army. When he tells her he can’t do it that fast she will decide not to name Tywin. In ep 10 they’ll do it “by the book.”

I don’t consider myself a Ros fan, but that is a fantastic interview since it goes beyond the show and offers a cultural review of the States. I didn’t know she was a burlesque performer. She reminds me how surprisingly functional I found Littlefinger’s infamous “play with her ass!” scene to be, despite the bean-spilling that seemed out of character for him.

Thanks for the link! Despite her character’s bad rep, I found that to be one of the most interesting GoT interviews I’ve read in a while.