If you ask Moe Taleb, partner/general manager of Kith and Kin in Lincoln Park, he and his brother and co-owner Ash are still deciding what to do and “might meet with their executive chef David Carrier “tomorrow” to sort things out as “nothing has been decided.”

There’s a slight problem with that plan. Carrier is currently in Georgia with his family where his wife works as a sommelier. Unless it’s via Webex or someone’s sending a plane, there likely won’t be a meeting. Despite the fact that there was no official announcement, Moe Taleb said that current chef de cuisine Andrew Brochu is their chef and that the Talebs will not be changing the Kith and Kin concept going forward.

Carrier’s version is that Ash Taleb called him up on Saturday, told him that his services were no longer needed for the process of planning the new upscale Andersonville restaurant Table that they were working on together, and that as of Monday September 13, Taleb would be taking over Kith and Kin. Carrier also says that Taleb called him back a few hours later and acknowledged that he “handled this (the alleged firing) incorrectly” and that he was flexible if Carrier wanted to get a group of investors together to buy him (Taleb) out.

Carrier said that Taleb said he was relieving Carrier of his duties because he didn’t make changes to the menu six months ago when Taleb requested them and that Carrier yelled at some of the staff. Carrier says that Taleb had requested price increases and a removal of lower-margin items like the sandwiches including the savory doughnut-like grouper cheek.

Carrier said he didn’t take the sandwiches off the menu because they were selling really well and people were clamoring for them. He wanted to wait for a natural point to remove them. As more people started to recognize Carrier’s and Brochu’s pedigree working with Grant Achatz and Thomas Keller, and started asking the chefs to cook more high end type entrees, Carrier eventually complied and started removing the sandwiches.

Carrier acknowledges that he yelled but only when “people were not living up to expectations.” He added, “I refuse to support mediocrity.”

Despit Taleb’s assertion that the firing was not a done deal, Carrier says there is no question in his mind that Taleb said he was taking over the restaurant. Carrier says, “They made it clear I was done.” He also says, “I feel as if a child has been kidnapped from me. Even though I won’t be working there the rest of the year, I’ll still have put in more hours than anyone, including the managers.”

Thing is if yelling at people or not changing your menu every few days were really terrible sins, Charlie Trotter, Rick Tramonto and most every famous French chef wouldn’t have careers and almost every Lettuce Entertain You restaurant would have been shuttered years ago.

Business partnerships are sometimes worse than bad marriages and often far worse when they break-up than any divorce. There are certainly two sides to every story, but unfortunately Moe Taleb won’t give me his.

What I do know is that Carrier left behind his family in Georgia, often going a month or more without seeing them to work at Kith and Kin. Carrier cooked for no extra compensation at Kith and Kin when the Taleb brothers requested that the restaurant start doing lunch service.

I know that every time I visited Kith and Kin, Carrier was in the kitchen or out in the dining room talking up his guests and making sure everyone was taken care of.

I’ve only given one five star review and three four star reviews as a reviewer for Modern Luxury CS in the last two and a half years. If you get a four star review, you not only have to be awesome, you have to be innovative. Carrier and his crew were cooking like Michelin starred moms. There were plenty of gastropubs serving casual food, organ meats, and doing great work, but few with the same level of consistency, precision, technique, and attention to detail. Plenty of people make good chicken thighs. Few make ones that are better than almost any piece of fried chicken I’ve had. That’s why Kith and Kin got four stars.

When I spoke to Carrier this afternoon, he spent very little time talking about the Talebs, saying he didn’t have any interest in vilifying them. He spent much more time trying to figure out whether he’d personally done something he shouldn’t have. He was wondering if the 180 covers they did last Friday or the 100 or so they were doing on a Wednesday night was enough. Carrier was harder on himself, than on the folks who dumped him via a phone call on the rare weekend he came back to be with his wife and kids.

The thing is a chef who’s disengaged doesn’t commute thousands of miles regularly or ask to see profit and loss statements for his kitchen. A chef who doesn’t really care or who wasn’t committed to the business would have no problem trashing his old bosses. Carrier on the other hand was too classy to do such a thing.

I kind of want to do it for him, because I believe what’s going on here is likely another example of a dangerous trend. Actually, it’s not even a trend. It’s been going on for years. Business guys who either know a lot about the bottom line, but little about running a restaurant, or guys who know how to run low end spots, but not high end ones, hire top cooking talent. They milk that talent for the first few months after a restaurant opening. After all the press has been gained and the great reviews have all been garnered, they fire or reduce the role of the chef who got them there. This happened recently with Grocery Bistro in the West Loop and Pensiero in Evanston.

Sometimes the money guys just bleed the restaurant dry for their own personal needs. I know a situation similar to this that is likely to happen again soon with another super-successful restaurant in Chicago.

If there’s a conflict about the bottom line, these business guys ask their chefs to switch to commodity produce and meat vendors or compromise on ingredient quality to make more money.

Or, maybe the business partners can’t understand why their high-end restaurant doesn’t churn and burn like their low-end spot. Before Carrier came along, the Talebs ran a mediocre salad and sandwich empire anchored by Zig Zag kitchen. Maybe they looked at the other middling places in the neighborhood that were packed out of familiarity and said why can’t we do business like that? Given a year or two, they probably would. Kith and Kin was a young restaurant, but there was nothing of its quality or type. Admittedly Trotters and Alinea, which are close by, are superior, but they’re also rare.

Often when a chef is successful, the money guys or managers who are usually pretty successful in their own right feel overshadowed and want some due. If you talk to a guy like Donnie Madia of Blackbird, Big Star, Avec, and Publican and he’ll tell you it was tough in the early years living in the press shadow of Paul Kahan. Thing is Donnie stuck it out and he has an incredibly successful empire. He’s also now recognized as being a key part in the success of those restaurants. If he’d fired Kahan, none of that likely would have ever happened.

I have no idea if the Talebs engaged in any of these practices, but there’s something about this situation that doesn’t add up and feels quite familiar. A lot of great chefs are working too hard and getting left out in the cold because sweat equity is never considered as valuable as cold hard cash.

What I do know is David Carrier is one of the best chefs working in Chicago. With his background working at the French Laundry and Trio and his showing at Kith and Kin, he has demonstrated he could be one of the greats. Though it’s cold comfort to Carrier, the good news is that he’s now available again to tap that potential with a smart and generous partner.

Carrier Fan

I agree with every word written here. Kith and Kin is in my neighborhood, and my family and I have been early and vigorous supporters of David’s delicious work.

David had been working tirelessly in the kitchen AND the front of the house and is the sole person responsible for the success of that restaurant. It was his vision and execution that got people in the door, and kept them coming back. It certainly wasn’t a front-of-house person who rarely showed up, or when he did sat at the bar and ordered up food. The Talebs have made a terrible, terrible mistake, and I’m sad to say I have now lost my favorite place to go in the city.

My only hope is that David finds another home in Chicago for his huge talent, and that his family are able to join him here soon. If the city loses him altogether, I know who to blame.

Michele

WHAT A MISTAKE! David Carrier was the reason we went there. We don’t know him personally but he made us feel like we were pals for years. I am so sad to hear about this.
I know big things are just around the corner for him. We will be there to support him….NOT at Kith and Kin.

Helene

I will NOT support a business that makes such stupid moves. Chef Carrier was the 100% driving force behind K&K and I will can’t believe greed or simple stupidity made has now taken a good job and future away from him. Andrew Brochu hardly seems qualified to take over such an project…however I’m sure he’s less expensive.

David

Everyone please understand that K&K was a collaboration of many people, I was one of many people who provided the experience that everyone enjoyed. I am the only one missing from that recipe. Andrew and the rest of the staff will maintain the the vision and most probably bring it to the next level.

GourmetRambler

I am horrified at this news. K&K is one of my favorite spots in the city. And while the staff is delightful, the drinks tasty, it was Chef Carrier’s food that kept me coming back for more.

I disagree with one of the previous comments. Andrew Brochu is very capable, well qualified and hard working. Given the chance, he will run K&K well. What I am questioning is whether he will be given the freedom to do so. It seems quite possible the Talebs will dictate the way the kitchen is run. And who is to say that Andrew wouldn’t fall their next victim? These people cannot be trusted, there really is no job security. What would stop them from firing Andrew if he takes a step that’s not in synch with them? Nothing. And that is disturbing.

I used to call Chef Carrier “the Captain of the Ship”. He was always there, making sure things ran smoothly. He took a personal interest in everyone and everything. For any ship the loss of its Captain is crippling. K&K will not be the exception.

I feel for Chef Brochu. The fallout from this toxic situation is likely to stick around for a while. And it is difficult to deal with baggage like that. I have faith that Andrew will persevere, but the position he has been put in is hardly enviable. Good luck, Chef Brochu. Hope that everything works out for the best.

Now, the dilemma I am faced with, as a conscientious diner… I would love to support Chef Brochu and the team at K&K, but every fiber of my being is against supporting an establishment owened by the Talebs. What they did to Chef Carrier, and the manner in which they did it, is utterly reprehensible. That, however, is My dilemma to deal with.

Good luck, David. I will certainly follow you wherever you go. They don’t call me Gourmet Rambler for nothing. I will forever remain a fan of your vision, of your food, and of you.

Carrier Fan

David that is very eloquent and gracious of you to say. And I am very sorry Andrew has been put in this most awkward of positions, but you have to understand that you made that restaurant what it was. You hired the team that executed your vision. And it was YOUR vision. The space had the makings of yet another mediocre pub-food-and-beer spot (can you say Gaslight?), but you created a gem with a menu featuring explosive flavors and interesting libations with a warm and friendly atmosphere, usually provided by your own smiling face.

Like GourmetRambler, I will find it nearly impossible to return to a place that treated you so shabbily. In fact I doubt I will be able to return at all, and that is a shame.

Gail Stanwyck

Renee

I don’t understand the Talebs. You have a successful restaurant that has received rave reviews and loyal customers. So what do you do? Make changes to an already-excellent menu (raising prices, eliminating dishes customers enjoyed) and fire the head chef. How is that going to make the restaurant more successful? We loved Kith & Kin, we told people it was THE place they needed to go. When people visited from out of town, we took them there. Chicago has a lot of great restaurants and it says something that we had been visiting Kith & Kin more often than any other. And now, I just don’t know if I can go there again. We may make one more visit, but if we noticed any decline in food or service, and a substantial increase in prices, it would be the last visit. I’ve seen this happen too often and it nearly always results in the restaurant closing. I hope I’m wrong and Chef Brochu can continue the work Chef Carrier began, but if the Talebs treat him as badly? I have a feeling that in a few months we’ll see a Kith & Kin offering on Groupon.

Wreckless

This article is completely wreckless. As someone who used to work there and who is still friends with the staff of KnK allow me to clarify somethings. One he wasn’t ripped from his family. His family moved to Georgia from Florida sometime around memorial day. He left Florida to come back to Chicago on his on volition. He has a single daughter who is 18 which makes her a adult and not “kids”. Also, he flew out of town at least once a month for days at a time to visit them.

Second, would David spend all day at the restaurant? Yes, but what was he actually doing is the question. If watching Glee and doing anything but cooking are considered work, then by all means he was the busiest man in the restaurant.

David doesn’t occasionally yell. He always does. Due to his size he tries to bully people and it works to a degree… and that degree is until that staff member quits. Hence why the last time I heard there are only 4 cooks in the kitchen currently on staff. Watching the mostly male staff constantly being called ” cum guzzling faggots” is far from professional and borderline criminal.

I have worked with people who have worked with him before at Trio and the French Laundry, maybe you should find out who they are and ask them about David’s work ethic. Or better yet ask them what he actually did while he was there.

David Carrier behaves like a spoiled brat. The fact that he reached out to you to give this fictitious article only proves it even further. He got fired because the restaurant was not making money because of the decisions he made. He took all the glory when positive press was released, but when things went wrong he wanted to accept none of the blame. He lacked accountability. The fact that you ran with this article without fact checking let’s me know that you’ll learn what accountability and responsible journalism both mean.

Stop

Helene

Yes, poor Andrew in a bad spot. Well, welcome to the game…the quarterback is out and you’ve got to step it up. We’ll see. However if I were the Talebs I would hire someone who could be the “face” of KnK, and who has great experience, and who’s food is fun and yummy…oh wait, they just fired that guy! Dumb asses. The only “face” Brochu could be is “this is what no sleep and lots of drugs looks like”.

Helene

Linda DeCastro

SC

Just always think there are 2 sides to a story. Bashing on either of the parties from an outside perspective seems to be quite interesting. Who says anyone has any clue who was in the wrong? Just a thought to think on. I will dine at K&K because I believe in Andreew Brochu and I am guessing DC would like you to all do the same.

Chicago Girl

Not me.
We frequented the restaurant Because of the environment that chef Carrier created. I have eaten at the Tabels’ previous restaurant
And it was completely underwhelmed. This only proves their incompetence. My condolences go out to the people who continue to work for them.

Helene

Really?!

My gosh, what’s with all this vilification of Brochu?! Let’s give this guy a fair chance!

A chef is no one without his team. Let’s not forget that Carrier hired Brochu as his right-hand man. So, for all of you who believe in Carrier, it seems natural that you should believe in Brochu, as well. Additionally, if I’m not mistaken, the plan was for Carrier to head-up the Andersonville restaurant once it opened, leaving Brochu in charge of the kitchen at Kith and Kin. Believe me, I’m as bummed as all of you about Carrier being out, but why take it out on Brochu? Why assume he’s not capable of running a kitchen?

Sure, Carrier was the face of Kith and Kin, and not Brochu. Wanna know why? Well, one of them had to be in the kitchen. Evidently, Brochu’s (and team) competence afforded Carrier the leisure of mingling with guests.

Dear bitter ex-employee and/or Brochu’s dear friend and/or Brochu’s girlfriend, Wreckless: your voice would have been better heard had you spoken well about Brochu, and not slighted Carrier.

To the whiny line cooks: Grow a sack! And/or go work for some passion-less mediocre exec chef — he/she most likely won’t yell at you!

FYI: I have no personal relationship with David, Andrew, Moe, Ashe, or any other team member.

Wreckless

What you people fail to understand is that none of you actually worked there. If any of you have first hand knowledge of what actually went on at KnK, please tell all of us. Anyone can look good for 5 minutes or however little time he actually spent with y’all. Those who were there know, the rest of you are assuming.

Helene

“wreckless”, do you actually think some/or most of us are just gushing fans who ate his food and didn’t know him or work with him at other places?? You’re dumb. Shut up…and yes, as the other comment said, please “grow a pair”…don’t like being yelled at? Then don’t be a cook. And if you are “friends” with AB or others who still work there, then you should shut up, you’re only making things worse and making the people that work there look dumb. Ash told the staff tonight to be positive…and keep moving forward and working hard for the goal they began…still think “you people” know nothing??

Anonymous

Arian

Sophie L. Nagelberg

Although it’s endearing of everyone to contribute their intellectual opinions, primarily on a topic they know very little to nothing about, most of these attempts at claiming to know what went on, to blame, or to accuse, simply fall short.

I noticed that earlier today someone accused me of using the alias ‘wreckless.’ (This post, containing the words, ‘AB’s girlfriend,’ is now either edited or removed). I’ll have you know that when I want to state my opinion, which I have not yet previously done, I WILL give you my full name- Sophie Nagelberg–not ‘AB’s girlfriend,’ or ’some other little whiney bitch who works at K&K.’ Make no mistake: I will proudly provide you with my name upon leaving a comment (perhaps everyone should do the same?).

Andrew has done nothing but speak highly of David Carrier. Andrew was put into an uncomfortable and awkward position when Carrier’s consultation gig was ended, as the two of them were friends. That decision was beyond Andrew’s control. It was a decision made by the Taleb brothers, who also held Carrier in a high regard, and still do. The Taleb brothers had to make a business decision and that is all there is to it. Carrier was not fulfilling the tasks the Taleb brothers asked, and they had no option but to let him go.

For those of you who no longer wish to support K&K, then don’t. Andrew will continue to do what he does best, and that is work in the kitchen. K&K wishes to move forward, so let them.

I’m aware that my opinion will most likely be discredited as ‘AB’s girlfriend,’ but perhaps you should think of me as not only someone who works at K&K, but someone who knows all of the staff (well), knows and respects David Carrier, knows the character of the Taleb brothers, and finally,can tell you first hand about the backbone Andrew Brochu has. He is the most honest, integral, and hard working person I know. Yes, Helene, he is young, however, his abilities in the kitchen and in the restaurant industry far exceed his age.

GourmetRambler

I would like to echo one of the previous comments. Andrew Brochu is a great chef with excellent pedigree. He should not under any circumstances be vilified, especially in this forum. He deserves respect, which seems to be lacking here.

My only other note would be a call for civility. These comments have become a verbal sparring match gone bad. And they are making an already ugly situation uglier. There is no reason to add insult to injury by attacking anyone. It isn’t doing anyone any good.

A friend of Big Dave's

I am so sorry this is all going down. For so many reasons. But please don’t bring the staff i:nto it. It just brings an awful situation to a really infantile, classless level. I am a friend of Dave’s and I have heard him refer to Andrew as a stand up guy many times as well as praising the kitchen and wait staff. He was proud of all of them.
It seems this issue is not between any of them.
I wish all of you luck.

Ave Sea in the AP

I worked for Chefs Ryanne and David for a year and a half at Avenue Sea as my second job, I had a full time good paying government job with benefits that paid all my bills but i chose to work for them for several of the following reasons:
1 their food is amazing, they both have high standards for the food they put out and it never fell short in the entire time i worked for them or when i dined at kith and kin
2 They are both genuinly great people who will bend over backwards for you in a heartbeat. Dave puts his heart and soul into his work, I have whitnessed first hand how hard he works, he loves what he’s doing why wouldn’t he want his staff to be hard workers! and p.s. people yell in restaurants, especially in kitchens, its called the restaurant business, put on your big kid panties and get over it, or find a new profession.

Anyway, Dave is a great chef and so much of the menu I saw when i was up there was all him. I met Andrew once or twice, he seemed like an alright guy and a hard worker so I hope it works out well for him.

Dave was great to work for, and given the opportunity I would jump at the chance to work for him again and I know I’m not the only person that feels that way!

Wishing you all the best Chef! (and selfishly hoping you’ll come back down south)

Not Impressed

Igor Stravinsky

All this is an interesting study in restaurantology. I wonder what percentage of the K and K’s customers actually know/knew who the chef was? If it was a great amount, then the operator should have known (did know) that the reputation of the restaurant would be built on the name and recognition of the chef that was hired. Many owners know the value that a celebrity-type chef can bring to the operation because 1. They may have dealt with one in the past or 2. Have been told about the value of such a chef through various sources. How the owner chooses to deal with such a chef is entirely up to the owner. The owner may 1. hire the chef with every intention of keeping them long term and letting them run the show or 2. look at them as a tool to get their business up and running and create a buzz, then let them go and hope that things have been wound up enough to keep rolling with his replacement. No matter what the circumstances may be, this shows the pros and cons of marketing your restaurant on the shoulders of your chef. Is there anything wrong with marketing a restaurant on the shoulders of your chef? Not if you plan it properly. What’s your plan B if it doesn’t work out? Like I said, the people who are writing and commenting about this, myself included, may be the only few who are actually paying attention to this hubub. The majority of K and K’s customers may not have even known who the chef was. I could be wrong. But it’s not like the chef had been working in Chicago for decades, earned 4 stars at a couple of restaurants and had a proven following that came from all over the city and it’s outlying areas. Then, you could say, whoa, business really dropped off, was probably a mistake to fire the chef. But who knows. I know that if I’m ever in the neighborhood I would go to K and K because I know that there is a chef in charge who has worked at some pretty good places. I wish the old chef the best and look forward to his next (ad)venture. Notice I didn’t say anything about the Mo’s or the Joe’s or whoever actually owns the property or the lease or deals with any of the day to day operations because there are very few restaurants I go to that I associate with an owner.

Anonymous

Quincy

I’ve been a customer and champion of kith and kin since it opened. I like the food and I especially have liked the bartenders. I’ve met David Carrier as a customer and he seemed both friendly and gracious. But after over a decade in the restaurant industry everything that wreckless is saying has the ring of truth to it. So often chefs and owners put on a show for their clientele while treating their staffs as less than human. Look at David’s own quote, ” “I refuse to support mediocrity.” This means that he believes any supposed ‘mediocrity’ in his staff justifies any kind of absurd tantrum he wishes to throw.

A lot of people might say things like “grow a pair” or “that’s just the industry live with it.” and to a certain extent that’s true. In the restaurant industry all types of behavior are tolerated that wouldn’t be accepted in other workplaces or the culture at large. Many people get into this business because they can’t abide by the constraints of corporate America. But none of that is an excuse bosses using their employees as human punching bags and giving their employees the choice between standing up for their dignity or keeping their jobs.

Ash Taleb

We wish all the best to Chef Carrier and want to express gratitude for all he has done for us at Kith & Kin.
David was hired to serve as a consultant to our group to open our high end restaurant in Andersonville. During this process we saw a need and an opportunity in the DePaul area and provided, what we think is excellence in Kith & Kin.
We thank David for his expertise and will now take what we have learned and continue to evolve Kith & Kin to higher and higher standards.
We appreciate all of the interest, passion, and support from everyone that has posted and those that are reading. We hope that you will continue to support Chef Brochu and the high standards that we ALL share with Chef Carrier.

I have had the privilege of working with both Chef Carrier and Brochu personally and let me tell you that both are more than qualified to run a successful restaurant. Is it unfortunate Chef Carrier got fired, yes. Does Andrew Brochu deserve this promotion, yes. Are half the comments on this page unfair, yes. Everyone needs to calm down and stop commenting unless you truly know what you are talking about, which most of you do not. As for you “author” Mike Nagrant, who are you? What are your credentials anyway? My guess is you have never even stepped foot in K&K. Shouldn’t a so called author look at both sides to the story instead of just formulating their own opinion, twisting all the “facts” making K&K to be the devil?
So people, continue to support K&K, continue to support Brochu and continue to support Carrier. A true restaurant person knows that we are all in this industry together.
Colleen L. Healy

wreckless = taleb

Before you trash David Carrier’s reputation, let’s hear from someone who has worked in the deplorable Zig Zag Kitchen sweatshop. Carrier is on a different, higher level and desires to be appreciated for putting KnK on the map. Never would have happened otherwise.

A friend of Big Dave's

schultz

Damn! It looks like. People are posting just because they want to read themselves and don’t read anything without demanding a stage of ignorance!! If you ask an itellegent person, the split was necessary and timely! ALL are moving on except those ranting here! Move on! Unless you have a different agenda!! If you do, man up and reveal yourelf! Then post without the shroud and give a solution to business and success!! The Talebs are successful in everything they have done! Let them continue to provide for many a familiy, and praise David, they are definitly the “bigger man” if you look at ALL of this non sense in this blog! Cheers!

David/K&K good Luck!!

Let me just say as a person who knows the line cooks left and David that both Wreckless and some other fans are correct. David is a talented cook but he lacks social skills and business skills. His counter part that he left in Florida 2 years ago, not Georgia is the Business counterpart. Ryanne only moved to Georgia in May with her 18 year old daughter. David was going back and forth way before Kith and Kin.Without Ryanne he is lost. This is the reason he brings her as a guest chef?? A. Sea in Florida was a success because it was his cooking ideas and her constant mothering skills to keep him in check. Yes he brought his Sous Chef from Georgia to help him but that is just another man to boost David’s ego!! I am sure Kith and Kin will do well David has left it in the hands of great business men and a chef that was his sous chef before Andrew and a staff that he has yelled at for several months.

Matthew

wreckless = taleb

I didn’t work with David but as a customer his tableside manner was very warm and welcoming. He was the only one in the restaurant that ever showed any concern for what the customer thought of the dining experience. The contact with Carrier is what brought me back time after time. As for KnK being run by such “great businessmen”, well good for them, but that’s not I look for when I eat out. And it sounds like they were doing nothing but mucking with Carrier’s menu, and not in a good way. Seems like a good business person would appreciate a chef for the vision that put the restaurant on the map in the first place. I will truly miss seeing David (if and when I go to KnK again). As for Table, it sounds like it is going to be closer to Zig Zag Kitchen than KnK, without Carrier at the helm. Not so yummy… I think I’ll pass.

Glorified fry cooks...

The problem is … this whole “foodie” movement gives assholes like Carrier and Brochu the ammo they need to act like little Napoleons and treat staff like sub-human, detritus. At the end of the day, they’re over-glorified fry cooks with way too much hubris for the general good of society.

I worked there briefly … they’re two of the worst human beings I’ve ever met. I hope they both fail at whatever they attempt … I doubt Kith and Kin sticks much longer.