Ian Kingston wrote:I agree with all of that except for the 'board games' part - IBM's logo doesn't have a computer in it; the BBC doesn't have a TV or a radio; MacDonald's doesn't have a burger; Shell doesn't have a petrol pump; Nike doesn't have a running shoe. Yet we all recognise those logos instantly.

Accepted. However everyone knows what those acronymns mean, even if we have a PC, watch ITV or get petrol from Q8! Their actual names have become the brands. Nobody outside the narrow chess world knows what 'ECF' means. And Shell actually have a shell as their logo! How literal can you get?

Last night I remembered that I had once visited the European Cyclists' Federation website by mistake (they own ecf.com) and that I was impressed with how professional it looked. Their logo is really quite smart:http://www.ecf.com

Maybe we could pinch this, replacing the moving wheel with something chessy (but not a knight - that's been done to death!).

I think Phil Neatherway recently mentioned the need for table tennis players to be members of their national organisation. Was it the Westminster Rapidplay where the organiser (John Sargeant?) ran a table tennis tournament alongside the chess tournament? One member of Hackney Chess Club was a fantastic table tennis player as he worked in a sports centre and played sport of some sort for at least four hours every single day, but he always refused to enter the table tennis tournament as he said he was there to play chess.

I like the idea of three lions in the table tennis logo, it makes a very pleasant change from the Union Flag in everything English. Probably a bit too fiddly for our needs though.

Ian Kingston wrote:I agree with all of that except for the 'board games' part - IBM's logo doesn't have a computer in it; the BBC doesn't have a TV or a radio; MacDonald's doesn't have a burger; Shell doesn't have a petrol pump; Nike doesn't have a running shoe. Yet we all recognise those logos instantly.

Accepted. However everyone knows what those acronymns mean, even if we have a PC, watch ITV or get petrol from Q8! Their actual names have become the brands. Nobody outside the narrow chess world knows what 'ECF' means. And Shell actually have a shell as their logo! How literal can you get?

Within the chess world, I'd say that ECF is the brand, just like those others. Outside the chess world, does it matter? My view is that the logo is primarily to identify the ECF within the chess community. Anyone from outside (a potential sponsor?) will soon come to recognise it, so I don't think we have to try to convey any additional message.

The cyclists' logo is fine, if a little staid. I did find myself asking why it uses a rugby ball...

I love sleep, I need 8 hours a day and about 10 at night - Bill HicksI would die happy if I beat Wood Green in the Eastman Cup final - Richmond LL captain.
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Ian Kingston wrote:Within the chess world, I'd say that ECF is the brand, just like those others. Outside the chess world, does it matter? My view is that the logo is primarily to identify the ECF within the chess community.

That depends how you define 'the chess world' or 'chess community'. We are on the English Chess Forum, and most of us are active players. If you belong to chess club, or go to tournaments, then you might know about the ECF.

However the vast majority of people who play chess in England have never heard of the ECF, probably never even thought of playing in a formal tournament, perhaps play in their lunch time with work colleagues or on the internet. Those are the people we need to reach, and encourage them to join our chess community.

Adam Raoof wrote:
However the vast majority of people who play chess in England have never heard of the ECF, probably never even thought of playing in a formal tournament, perhaps play in their lunch time with work colleagues or on the internet. Those are the people we need to reach, and encourage them to join our chess community.

I agree with all of this. However, the question pertinent to this discussion is what can you achieve with a change of logo that you can't with the old logo?

What is the history of this logo? Someone said it was the BCF logo. When was that first designed and by whom?

The current logo dates back to 1981, replacing a previous logo with three pawns. Of course it was, at that time, BCF rather than ECF.

It was designed by John Edward (Jack) Redon (1905-1994), a long standing member of Richmond & Twickenham Chess Club, and, before that, a member of Battersea Chess Club. Jack lived in a very large house a couple of hundred yards from ETNA, which Chris will know well, and back in the 1970s used to host R&TCC committee meetings there. (A few years ago I visited the same house regularly to teach a private pupil, also named Jack.)

Jack was the great-nephew of the French symbolist painter Odilon Redon (1840-1916). By trade he was a graphic artist, designing LP sleeves and suchlike, but he was also a talented amateur painter, many of whose works were to be seen in his house. He was a strong player, at his best between the 1930s and 1950s, who competed in the 1957 British Championship.

A contemporary of his at Richmond was another artist, Philip Leighton Poyser (1912-1988), whose works are now collectible. Phil, a real character, provided the illustrations for the London 1946 tournament book and also did some drawings for CHESS. Whereas Jack was from a wealthy background, Phil lived a much more Bohemian life in a small terraced house near Twickenham Green.

Ian Kingston wrote:Within the chess world, I'd say that ECF is the brand, just like those others. Outside the chess world, does it matter? My view is that the logo is primarily to identify the ECF within the chess community.

That depends how you define 'the chess world' or 'chess community'. We are on the English Chess Forum, and most of us are active players. If you belong to chess club, or go to tournaments, then you might know about the ECF.

However the vast majority of people who play chess in England have never heard of the ECF, probably never even thought of playing in a formal tournament, perhaps play in their lunch time with work colleagues or on the internet. Those are the people we need to reach, and encourage them to join our chess community.

Point taken. But where are they ever going to see the logo? I cannot recall ever having seen the current logo outside the context of the active chessplaying community, and I can't at the moment see how that would change.

I do think that if a way is found to contact these people then a new and improved logo would help by presenting a better image of the ECF, since first impressions do count and the existing logo has a much more dated feel than is appropriate for the 21st century.