Yes Walter you are correct, Harrison was the one who had Marcus and Ryan in his class at Sonoma State and their friendship led to them starting the band. Harrison was the one teaching roots and culture at Sonoma State University not Ryan or Marcus. But I agree with you that those are the original 3. The band without Ryan or Marcus would not be what it is today. Their show in Portland recently was wickid.

Miss living in Sonoma County where I used to catch them all the time. Harrison is still a good freind though. Just gets to me when people say that. I dont think they take the time to look at Harrison and what he stands for and how much he means to Reggae music. It is a respect thing.

they kinda remind me of Midnite. it's really well crafted quality music. but it just doesn't resonate with me....
but that being said, i don't think Groundation would benefit in any way by getting rid of Harrison on vocals....
i think that's what makes the band work so well, the chemistry amongst them that produces that sound....

I think Groundation is amazing with their sound they produce. Just wondering if this was a case of a choosing the wrong guy to sing. Nothing against him concerning his creativity, message, talent...it's just the voice.

I kinda agree with akee. I tried giving Groundation a listen a few years ago, but just couldn't get used to the singer's voice. That and I don't like American reggae much. But I do appreciate their musicianship and spiritual messages, and I will check them out for the 1st time this year at SNWMF. But HiGrade, Midnite is on a whole different level and there is no comparison...

I never thought about it before but the midnite vs Groundation argument is a very good one... both exceptionally talented musicians that have amazing chemistry, but both have a specific style that is very easy to have strong feelings about (whether good or bad)

Quoteakee123
I think Groundation is amazing with their sound they produce. Just wondering if this was a case of a choosing the wrong guy to sing. Nothing against him concerning his creativity, message, talent...it's just the voice.

I completely agree with you. I love their music (minus the singing) but can't listen to an entire song due to his voice quality rubbing on my nerves.
There are other singers I don't care for due to their whiny sounding voices. Its not a matter of quality of music or message, just personal taste on how their voices resonate with the listener.

IMO Groundation and Midnite are totally different items. While both may have their foundation in roots music, Groundation has a far more 'sophisticated' sound to them. Groundation delves into jazz and dub music and their tunes seem to be, for lack of a better description, very sophisticated and 'developed'. I don't hear this in Midnite's music at all. Instead, their sound is about as naked and raw as it comes.

I'm curious about those of you who find Harrison's vocals to grate on them after a while. Do you have a similar feeling regarding Cedric 'Congos' Myton's vocals? I only ask because I find great similarities in both their vocal styles. And, for what it's worth, the songs sung in English by Danakil's vocalist (Balik) reminds me of........ Harrison Stafford.

And Groundation is one of the ONLY bands these days that put out what I would call 'thematic' albums. Most artist's albums are just songs strung together (often just a compilation of sinlges) but albums like Groundation's Hebron Gate reminds me of a book. Each song constitutes a separate chapter, the chapters seem to reflect on each other and are bound together to form an album......

Quotestrikkly
This band is Pure half rate imitation of midnite which is already what some have called "an amazing cure for insomnia".

Waaaaaaaaaay out there on this one and you know I respect you well Strikkly. I've never heard Harrison chat like Vaughn. The only similarity might be that they both tend to play at a slow tempo on may of their songs. Jussayin. I never really understand the comparisons between these two groups

Quotestrikkly
This band is Pure half rate imitation of midnite which is already what some have called "an amazing cure for insomnia".

Statements like this one is why the phrase "Everybody has a right to their own opinion" was created.

I vehemently disagree. For me, Groundation and Midnite have almost no similarities. I agree with Daniel on this - Groundation's music is multi-layered, whereas Midnite's music stripped down to its essential elements. Groundation's music is more thematic; whereas Midnite's music is mystical.

yes i think so too... People (particualrly in this phorum) etither love or hate Midnite and Groundation.....I fu don't like the lead singers voice of groundation, u don't like groundation....I think they r unique......I think Midnite is in a categorry of it's own in lyrical content, may not be my favorite live.....but top of the rooots list

there's some voices in reggae that my ear doesn't love like jack radics & ghost
so i simply dont listen to them much. if people dont care for harrison's voice
why not just not listen? it seems like tens of thousands of people in south america, europe and elsewhere
love it and that irks the haters because it's incomprehensible that if YOU dont like it how can others?
not everyone's taste is yours and why isn't that ok? why do we have to constantly have to
repost this same thread? are you trying to win people over to the i hate the voice campaign?
diff strokes for diff folks. groundation and midnite is not everyones cuppa. we got it.
let's not keep floggin this one...
a

I am with ras James on this. Heart of the congos has a place in the pantheon of great reggae albums, and i've loved seeing them perform,but Cedric mynton's falsetto renders most of their tunes unlistenable after a while. I've bought soo much of their music, and it sits quietly on the shelf. Likewise with groundation (except i dont buy much of their music). I thought they were great live the one time I saw them in angels camp (context is sometimes everything) but the lead vocals on recordings have me reaching for other tunes as soon as the second Harrison vocal track strikes up.
Aloha

But the similarity I do see with these bands, and is where I disagree with Daniel, is that BOTH bands have very intricate layers to their sound. While Groundation does have a more jazzy-oriented background with different layers, I think Midnite does too, especially their more recent releases and the I-Grade productions. It's one of the things i like about Midnite, that with each listen you notice new layers to their sound...

Very interesting thread, however the topic of groundation and Harrison's voice is something that has been discussed before on this phorum.
I would just like to add that I respect Harrison very much, as we were both at Sonoma State during the same time period and I have reasoned with him regarding his class he taught there. However that being said, IMO the man cannot sing, not to say he is not musically gifted, just not as a lead singer. When they first started, I never dreamed they would have become as popular as they are now. I figured they would be another Sol Horizon at best. I am happy for them, as Harrison is a very humble and all around nice guy and I do like there sound it's just the vocals. I mean wow, i have a hard time making it through one of their songs. I agree with the other posts that Midnite in absolutely no way compares to groundation. I can tolerate Cedric's vocals more so than Harrison's but it can also "grate" on me after a while.

I do think Friday night is good spot for them as I am kind of used to Friday nights at the main stage as weak, whether it is Rebolution or Michael Franti playing, the artists are usually not my taste. Very fortunate that downbeat the ruler will be in the danchall as an alternative to groundation, which is where you will find me. I suspect that the early dancehall on Friday will far more crowded than usual.

I agree with Herb and Mulligan regarding Deadheads and Midnite. I've never been to a Groundation show. Music really comes down to personal tastes, what some see as beautiful drum sounds would be noise others.

Regarding this thread- it's a good sign for a forum that topics repeat each other....longetivity.

I've had others tell me that they don't like Harrison's voice, but personally I think it adds to the eeriness of his music. Throw in the occasional jazz, and I feel it makes for a sound that I like. Lots of singers use falsetto, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. To each his/her own.

Am I missing anything?

Building An Ark
Dragon War LP
Dub Wars
Each One Teach One
Hebron Gate
Here I Am
Madness
Mighty Souls/Distant Trial 7”
Rockamovya
Upon The Bridge
We Free Again
Young Tree

QuoteDaniel
I'm curious about those of you who find Harrison's vocals to grate on them after a while. Do you have a similar feeling regarding Cedric 'Congos' Myton's vocals?

Honestly, I think the Congos are incredibly overrated. There's only so much of Cedric's falsetto one can take before cringing at the sound

Agreed, I'm not into the Congos much at all because of this. When I do occasionally hear them on Sky.fm or whatever, I often find myself thinking how much better that song would be without the absolutely over the top falsetto. I also wonder if any of the other vocalists/band members in The Congos were thinking the same thing when they listened to their tracks after recording.

With Groundation, agree on the voice thing. Obviously the international community and other well known reggae artists respect them, as noted by cameos/guest appearances on their albums, shows, etc. But I, personally, can only take Harrison's voice for so long. It's like trying to have an accent when you don't have one...overdone. I actually saw an interview with them on YouTube or something and I was thinking, come on man, you didn't talk like that 15 - 20 years ago ala semi-patois...it's akin to bad actor trying to have a russian accent on a one star, B movie. I do however, like the band, the beats, bass/drum, etc of Groundation and dig it when the singing is kept to a minimum. My $0.02

QuoteRas_Adam
there's some voices in reggae that my ear doesn't love like jack radics & ghost
so i simply dont listen to them much. if people dont care for harrison's voice
why not just not listen? it seems like tens of thousands of people in south america, europe and elsewhere
love it and that irks the haters because it's incomprehensible that if YOU dont like it how can others?
not everyone's taste is yours and why isn't that ok? why do we have to constantly have to
repost this same thread? are you trying to win people over to the i hate the voice campaign?
diff strokes for diff folks. groundation and midnite is not everyones cuppa. we got it.
let's not keep floggin this one...
a

^^^ To give your opinions about an artist doesn't mean you're a hater. This is a discussion forum for people to discuss their particular attractions to, or distractions from, the music we all love. To post that just because xyz artist isn't your fave or just isn't your cup of tea on these forums doesn't mean you're a hater. A "hater" to me is a much stronger term than just not having a preference for a certain artist, band, singer, chef,..._______ (fill in the blanl)

Interesting conversation. To me, Groundation and Midnite, are both bands that I like, but I think are overexposed, particularly Midnite. Both can put me to sleep, not necessarily a bad thing. It's kind of sweet to be wrapped up in a blanket on a crisp evening and having a slow reggae beat take me in and out of dreamland.

i used the term hater because people have expressed what seems to me to be a real hatred/loathing for these acts.
if you hate brussel sprouts dont eat them. but why continually tell the people that love them how bad they taste?
a

okay peeps disagree, I thought years ago when I heard Groundation that the vocalist was patterning his flow after midnite, even in content and topics and cramming alot of info into one line, alot of imagery. My bad, if the band is beyond that and has advanced themselves then kudos to the band. BTW my idea of patterning vocalists or singers is how the Jamaicans seem to do it. Its how you learn and grow, its a deep respect for your artist and eventually you shine your own light

After my overplaying the album "Each One Teach One', I admit I had to take a break for many of the above reasons. I recently have been listening again to the "Tribute to Bob Marley Live" double disk album...there isn't a bad track on this album in my opinion.

Also their international acclaim is very impressive and speaks to their appeal to the broad international audience. Big respect to them to bringing their conscious reggae message to the massive all over the world. (Also maybe they have had less 'visa issues' then some?)

Quotejcom
^^^ To give your opinions about an artist doesn't mean you're a hater. This is a discussion forum for people to discuss their particular attractions to, or distractions from, the music we all love. To post that just because xyz artist isn't your fave or just isn't your cup of tea on these forums doesn't mean you're a hater. A "hater" to me is a much stronger term than just not having a preference for a certain artist, band, singer, chef,..._______ (fill in the blanl)

QuoteRas_Adam
i used the term hater because people have expressed what seems to me to be a real hatred/loathing for these acts.
if you hate brussel sprouts dont eat them. but why continually tell the people that love them how bad they taste?
a

edited for typos

because this is a discussion board, not a groundation/harrison fan site. go on over to the fan site if you want no 'hating" - a word that really should be retired. to paraphrase JCom - disliking something or disagreeing with you IS NOT HATING...
I would hope that we can take criticism of our idols without getting upset. This discussion is very civil (as opposed to other, earlier threads regarding groundation) and throwing out the "hater" card is unfair.

best line in the whole thread. it is exackly like dat comparison... I do like brussel sprouts while at the same time I admit that they taste a likkle odd... I like Groundations music tho at times it sounds a likkle odd...

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*

Groundation is one of my favorite bands along with Midnite. I would not compare them to each other or food..
Groundation is not trying to make the pop charts or win us over with a sweet voice. Harrison along with the band is a messenger these lyrics are his voice, just like Bob Dylan...
Being a fan of Groundation is a journey you grow with them learning, so just listen up relax you mind and just let the music inside.
I understand what some of you are saying...not everyone likes everything but to say to replace Harrison makes me wonder do you know what Groundation is about?
Maybe you need to listen again or go up to the band and met them, they are the real thing and have a great vision..
Bless up Harrison...

QuoteDaniel
I'm curious about those of you who find Harrison's vocals to grate on them after a while. Do you have a similar feeling regarding Cedric 'Congos' Myton's vocals?

Honestly, I think the Congos are incredibly overrated. There's only so much of Cedric's falsetto one can take before cringing at the sound

Wow - I couldn't disagree more on this one. While I will say that too much Falsetto can get old - he mixes it up enough that it just flows, and when he drops down into Tenor land, he has one of the best voices out there, and not just in reggae. The only "overly" falsetto tune of theirs that comes to mind for me is Thief Is In the Vineyard, and even then I like that song (I'm sure there are others). I think they are one of the strongest roots artists out there, and would love to see them again...

That being said - Harrison can get to me after a while. They sound best when guest vocalists are sharing the lines.

QuoteDaniel
I'm curious about those of you who find Harrison's vocals to grate on them after a while. Do you have a similar feeling regarding Cedric 'Congos' Myton's vocals?

Honestly, I think the Congos are incredibly overrated. There's only so much of Cedric's falsetto one can take before cringing at the sound

Wow - I couldn't disagree more on this one. While I will say that too much Falsetto can get old - he mixes it up enough that it just flows, and when he drops down into Tenor land, he has one of the best voices out there, and not just in reggae. The only "overly" falsetto tune of theirs that comes to mind for me is Thief Is In the Vineyard, and even then I like that song (I'm sure there are others). I think they are one of the strongest roots artists out there, and would love to see them again...

That being said - Harrison can get to me after a while. They sound best when guest vocalists are sharing the lines.

I can agree with that last part, some of my favorite songs by groundation are with Don Carlos, Apple Gabriel or Pablo Moses. My fiance loves Groundation and was not a fan of his voice but said after seeing him live she really started to appreciate him. Harrison is as talented a lead singer as their is. Just in a different way.

Groundation is a way of life.. Reggae Professor, Rockamovya, all embody greatness in my opinion.. Respect!! Harrison Stafford is a filmmaker as well. "Holding on to Jah" which has not reached release but has been shown for viewing.. Bless up Professor, ill follow you bredrin..

Sorry, but no way is Midnite like the Dead. I LOVE Midnite, and can't stand the Dead. The only similarity i see is they both change their set lists every show, and they both tour constantly. But Midnite fans are not a bunch of hippies. At least I'm not. No offense to hippies, actually. I just think Midnite's music is much more spiritual & deep than the Greatful Dead.

Greatful Dead - too many albums to keep track of
Midnite - have released many many many albums

To me - the biggest similarity between the two is the (yawn) extended jams and the hippie-ish fans (not everyone, of
course, but a great majority). White boys with dreads are the 21st century hippies.....

Define hippy please, the old 'free love' torn jeans wearing anti war sleeping in the park hippies are def not there, i've been searching for them since i moved here in 1980 and haven't found them. If you take out the hippy reference which seems illogical to me, i would agree with much of what you said Mulligan. Since i love both bands i did a little research last night. Recently i attended four Midnite shows and found them extremely pleasurable. So i found this halloween show of the Dead in 1980 in new york, near the time that i first saw them. If you can listen to Ramble on Rose and tell me that jerry didn't hit some highly meditational spots that sent you into the ether, i can accept it, but don't agree:

The first time I heard Groundation, I liked Harrison's voice. Now, after seeing them a handful of times and buying a few of there releases, I find his vocals and lyrics inspired, but at best adequate, and usually mildly irritating. That said, IMO he's as good as most reggae "vocalists" that are recording today, which ain't saying much.

A lot of the times the lead singers voice defines the music as much as the backing band. To me Groundation is not Groundation without Harrison's voice as Primus is not Primus without Les Claypool's voice. For the people that listen to Primus you know what Im talking about.

Quoterossta8888
Well all I know about Midnite is they are the greatest roots reggae band of our generation. I will had in my humble opionion so that I dont stir the pot to much. LOL

That is, as you say, just an opinion. It's shared by many, but many more share the belief that the Grateful Dead was the greatest band of its generation. I'm not a fan of their music, but the Dead did set a precedent for bands of that style which spawned the whole jam-band genre. So far, I haven't seen a whole lot of bands or artists emulate Midnite's style...yet.

the original statement was the comparison that they make QUALITY music that is not to everyones taste.......
not that their fans are the same, their music is the same, or who is better than the other......

Quotenomotrouble
Define hippy please, the old 'free love' torn jeans wearing anti war sleeping in the park hippies are def not there, i've been searching for them since i moved here in 1980 and haven't found them.

Um - come on up to Butte County and I'll introduce you to a bunch of them, and yes - the same ones you see at deadhead shows are typically around on reggae nights (not MIdnite specific by any means). Maybe they migrated from the cities to be closer to the emerald triangle... or they started bands that are now charting on the Billboard reggae charts!

Quoterossta8888
Well all I know about Midnite is they are the greatest roots reggae band of our generation. I will had in my humble opionion so that I dont stir the pot to much. LOL

That is, as you say, just an opinion. It's shared by many, but many more share the belief that the Grateful Dead was the greatest band of its generation. I'm not a fan of their music, but the Dead did set a precedent for bands of that style which spawned the whole jam-band genre. So far, I haven't seen a whole lot of bands or artists emulate Midnite's style...yet.

Agreed, The dead have been around a lot longer than Midnite. But I agree with everything you said for the most part. I know the Dead probably have a the largest most loyal following of any band ever. My fiance would tell you her favorite band is the Dead. She just doesnt get to listen to anything but Midnite, VI reggae and Groundation. LOL I feel bad for her sometimes. But not bad enough to listen to the Dead or Michael Jackson. Her favorite reggae artist is Dezarie. So that is a blessing for me. If she cant handle any more Midnite we can roll with Sis Dezarie.

QuoteHiGrade1
the original statement was the comparison that they make QUALITY music that is not to everyones taste.......
not that their fans are the same, their music is the same, or who is better than the other......

Well said, I can agree with that. All 3 bands have very loyal fans and people either seem to love them or dont like them at all. When I found Midnite I felt like they were the band I had been searching for my whole life. The sound they brought, the positive lyrics that you could listen to 100 times and take a different and wonderful meaning from each time you listen to that song.

Mulligan, I agree with all your points except most Midnite fans being ex-hippies. I know lots of Midnite fans, but none have ever been hippies (children of hippies maybe).

HiGrade, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I think the main Deadhead / Reggae-head link might be thaat both types of music are counter-culture and anti-mainstream. Nothing wrong with that, and in that vain I can see the comparisons. But musically reggae and jam-rock are COMPLETELY different. Musically, the Dead are more like Phish, and Midnite is like... well i guess maybe Groundation, although like I said Midnite is in a class of their own!

Quoterossta8888
I do not know that for sure AJ, I know they are playing friday night and more than likely headlining but I dont know for sure.

I received an email from "Reggae e-guide" a couple of days ago and it said K'naan will be closing out the Valley Stage Friday night.
I will most definitely take a break from the dancehall to check out K'naan. Friday night is looking irie.

I received an email from "Reggae e-guide" a couple of days ago and it said K'naan will be closing out the Valley Stage Friday night.
I will most definitely take a break from the dancehall to check out K'naan. Friday night is looking irie.[/quote]

Thanks for that info AJ. Valley stage is the main stage yeah? Who is this K'naan? He is really high up the list and I have never heard of him. That would make sense as the Damien and Stephen, Alpha and K'naan are the first three listed on the bill. Most the time that means headliner but not all the time. Groundation will play an amazing set no matter where they are put and I will be excited for them even if it is 1pm on the smaller stage.

Anyone recomend some K'naan for me to check out? He is he reggae? World music? From JA? Thats a lot of questions, I need to go do some research. LOL

he played his "dusty foot philosopher" material in the early afternoon a few years back up on the river and was a solid performer.... his music you can tell is influenced by many different styles...

i remember this line getting huge response from the crowd.....

"If I rhyme about home and got descriptive, I'd make 50 Cent look like Limp Bizkit...."

obviously a reference to mogadishu, not canada.

i have not listened to any of his newer material, but between his song for coca-cola and collabo songs with adam levine, will.i.am, david guetta, nelly furtado, etc. it seems he might be completely on the pop-train now, though.....

see ya'll in the DH no matter if its Knaan or Groundation headlining....