Tuesday, March 10, 2009

Technically VtES has no strict No-Repeat-Action (NRA) rule, that is a minion can take multiple actions per turn in principal (provided he can untap between attempting the different actions), but there are some restrictions.

According to the VtES rulebook, you're restricted for each vampire/minion you control in your turn in the following way:

6.1.1. Bleed -- [..] A minion cannot perform more than one bleed action each turn, even if he untaps.

6.1.6. Action Card (or Card in Play) -- [..] A minion cannot perform an action with the same action card or via the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more than once each turn, even if he untaps.

6.1.7. Political Action -- [..] A minion cannot perform more than one political action each turn.

CaveatsAs simple as the above listed rules sound there are some complications involved that need clarification:

An action is only considered to have been taken/performed if it resolves by either being blocked or by being successful.

An action that is canceled (before it enters the resolution stage) is not considered taken, and a vampire can attempt the same action again. Examples for cards that cancel an action card before resolution are "Direct Intervention" or "Determine".

Multiple copies of a card in play with the same name are treated as separate cards. For example: Your prey has vampire with two "Haven Uncovered" on it. One of your vampires can attack that vampire twice via the two separate "Haven Uncovered" (provided he can untap between the actions).

The action to put a card in play is different than the action provided by the card. For example: Putting "Call the Great Beast" into play and putting a ritual counter to the card are considered different actions.

A minion that attempts an action but then that action is taken over by another with "Mask of a Thousand Faces" is not considered to have taken that action and is not prohibited from taking that action later in that turn.

Multiple Actions AllowedOn the other hand the rules do not restrict your minions from

hunting more than once.

rescuing or diablerizing a vampire in torpor (even the same!) more than once.

equipping different types of equipment.

recruiting different types of allies.

employing different types of retainers.

If you use different ways of equipping, employing or recruiting you can even put multiple copies of the same card into play with the same minion. For example, you can use "Jack of Both Sides", "Muricia's Call" and a "Raptor" itself card to recruit three "Raptors" in a single turn.

Endless LoopWith the hunting and diablerie action being repeatable for a (theoretical) infinite number of times, there's also a chance of provoking an endless loop of actions in the game. Imagine you control an empty "Henry Taylor" which is required to hunt in his own turn. So "Henry Taylor" hunts, is blocked by a Magaji with "No Secrets From the Magaji". In the resulting combat "Henry Taylor" plays superior "Earth Meld" and untaps. He then puts the "Earth Meld" played on the top of his library. But with a second "Earth Meld" in his hand, the endless loop is started again when "Henry Taylor" is forced to hunt again. Section 4.9 "Infinite Loops" of the VEKN tournament rules addresses this problem:

When a loop is detected (meaning game state has been completely restored to a previous state and could be repeated without limit except for the round's time limit), the activity cannot be begun again (until and unless game state changes). This includes actions, sequences of combats, rounds of combat, and everything else. Note that game state includes all players' hands, ash heaps, and libraries, as well as available maneuvers and presses from cards in play, and master: out-of-turn plays.

Ei, you're example is wrong, that vampire cannot play earth meld at superior and playing an earth meld is not an example of a endless loop, because its related to a fact that one minion's controller plays a card instead of endless loop where without playing any cards we would get to a loop. That would happen if : you have 2 players on table and they are both Ravnos, one plays week of nightmares and of all them, only 1 vampire has 1 blood. So they will endlessly hunt that 1 blood until all the counters on Week are gone. But if they do not put it, it's an endless loop.(lets suppose that either player doesnt have the pool or the vampires to influence a new one). :D

I must disagree, the loop conditions are met if the gamestate does not change. After two hunt actions at most, the situation has not changed. The player controlling Henry Taylor has a Henry Taylor that needs to hunt in play, a "Earth Meld" in his hand, another on the top of his library. If Henry Taylor then hunts, and is blocked by the vampire with the "No Secrets from the Magaji", he plays an "Earth Meld", Henry Taylor untaps, and he draws the second "Earth Meld" from the library. After the end of the combat the player then puts the played "Earth Meld" to the top of his library. Therefore the same game state has been reached.

The loop condition does not check whether cards are played or not, but only if in sum the gamestate has not changed. And -- as explained above -- this is the case.

Oh, ok, it's really a matter of opinion and gamestate. My thought was that loop may be intentional and not intentional. It is difficult to determine a loop in that way you are suggesting. Almost every loop is a loophole that we could get in.

''Note that game state includes all players' hands, ash heaps, and libraries, as well as available maneuvers and presses from cards in play, and master: out-of-turn plays.''

In your case gamestate changes because the library of one player changes(you draw to replace earth meld) nevertheless what you draw your library is 1 card smaller, and in my example neither the library, ash heap or players hand don't change. It is an endless hunt for 1 blood.