Morales don't come into this, it purely comes down to what makes you happy or what you think will make you happy. People are deciding not to have children because they think they'll be happier with less responsibility, not because they're trying to be edgy or piss off society.

For 200,000 years of evolution or so, we've believed in a higher being/after life etc.which must have imparted a stronger sense of purpose on having kids. I'm not saying people are trying to be edgy or piss off society, just that there is now lacking a sense of duty connected to the spiritual community we all used to belong to in the West.

I get you and I'm with Freud on this one. Freud believed that all intrinsic human instinct fell into 2 categories, the Eros (life drive) or Thanatos death drive. We're all born with these drives, they're independent of morals. Thanks to globalization, traditional values and norms of western civilization have a lot more to compete with, people have become increasingly exposed to multiple lifestyles and the blending of cultures has influenced this too.

Ultimately, no matter how many alternate lifestyles people explore, the life drive will always be there and humans will ALWAYS desire to sire children.

I have no desire to sire children. I know a couple others that think this way as well. :p

I knew from a young age (like an early teenager) that I never wanted to be a father. No idea what really caused me to feel that way, but I guess it's as close to an instinct as these things can get. When I was at university, some of friends thought I was trying to be contrarian or edgy by saying I didn't want kids. There was a brief period in my mid-twenties when people around me started having babies, and I thought it might eventually "just happen", and I'd probably go along with it. My wife has never really wanted them either, but also questioned herself a lot due to social expectations and indirect pressure from friends. We're now in our late 30s and I very much doubt it's going to happen, so we've managed to hold out.

I've read quite a bit on the topic, which is useful when you need reassurance. I don't think it's wise to subordinate your own feelings to other people's opinions, but the rest of society has a way of making you feel like you're cheating it if you don't want children (see Elon Musk on demographics...), so an alternative perspective is sometimes necessary.

‘Selfish, Shallow, and Self-Absorbed: Sixteen Writers on the Decision Not to Have Kids’ is a great place to start.

'Childfree and Loving It' by Niki DeFago is annoying and genuinely quite shallow, saved only by the letters from more thoughtful and less smug childfree couples that she includes in the book.

Corinne Maier's 'No Kids - 40 Good Reasons Not to Have Children' is great, too.

And for trip to the philosophical dark side, these anti-natalist books are pretty essential.

Corinne Maier on 40 reasons not to have kids. What depressing shyte. (notice she is a hypocrite because SHE ACTUALLY HAS KIDS) Women should stop having kids to concentrate on their careers. Stack gold and grow old. Wow how fulfilling.

And one of her reasons - having kids leads to less interest in the bedroom. THat is just a normal consequence of aging.

Have you actually read the book? It's laden with sarcasm, often very funny, and she's not afraid to admit her own inconsistencies / double standards. She writes as a normal, emotionally complex human being, not a rigid ideologue.

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Having two children, I cannot tell others: "Don't do as I did." Yet I also find it hypocritical to hide behind the smokescreen of idealism ("There's nothing more beautiful than a child's smile") to justify my questionable life choices. I am a fierce opponent of brainwashing and of pathos. It's time to stop marketing the babies-spell-happiness idea...

Children, welcome and good luck to you as you make your way in this rotten world that your parents, who love you very very much, have left you. They spent so much time looking after you that they didn't have time to transform it. They gave up, quit, hung up their hats. "The child is what's most important..." You'll forgive us, won't you?

I posted that bbc article earlier in the thread. It’s clear to see where Korea is heading demographically and they’ll need to take some urgent action.

I was reading a thread on an Irish forum about a homeless mother forced to sleep with her kids at a police station. There was very little sympathy for her. They were asking questions such as “where are the fathers?” And “why does not she practice birth control?” Many had already written off the children as being unlikely to be contributors to society.

She sounds a bit silly and immature to me. Writing off the whole male sex in her country as being unworthy of her, at the grand old age of 24. No chance of finding a partner who isn't like all the rest? As people get older they tend to realise that other people are, or should be, the most important things in their life.

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When I ask Yun-hwa how men see women in South Korea, she has a one-word answer: "Slave."

Funny, but the common narrative for Western guys marrying Asian women these days is always the opposite - they think they're getting a slave but they end up with a ball breaker. Maybe they're not doing it right the way Korean men are.

Also double standards apply as usual - If a 24 year old Korean male was interviewed saying he's not interested in getting married because all Korean women are infantile and obsessed with money and plastic surgery, would you also be saying he was awesome and 'good for him'? I don't think so somehow, you'd probably be accusing him of being an alt right basement-dwelling INCEL.

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How anyone can observe the behavior of Korean kids and think "I want some of that in MY house, especially after work and on the weekends!" will forever be a mystery to me.

Nobody wants other people's kids in their house. They want their own kids who they'll bring up perfectly and even if they don't they'll still love them more than anything else in the world.

Cyanea Crowded cities mean plenty of hagwons and public schools offering loads of jobs for foreigners. Empty cities devoid of children mean no jobs for teachers. It is that simple.

Are you retiring in Korea? I have no idea why someone would be in bliss in their old age, jobless thinking "it is wonderful I can use the subway and get seats" They'd have no way of supporting themselves.

In fact if it weren't for the jobs most waygooks would be out of Korea.

..surely if youare fluent in korean you could work in something other than esl?

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The marriage rate in South Korea is at its lowest since records began - 5.5 per 1,000 people.

Why would anybody want a typical Korean wedding? mind-bogglingly expensive, tacky and garuanteed to leave you in debt for years. Its a scam.

Westerners nowadays pump out kids without getting formally married. Koreans though still think "if i can't afford the W100M for the marriage ceremony complete with stale overpriced food nobody wants to eat and insane dowry costs, then I'll have to accept to be unmarried which means I'll never have kids.

They don't get it: marriage is about the relationship and life between two people, not about the brief ceremony and impressing the in-laws with huge gifts. But because Koreans are so obsessed with status and money, they are increasingly unable to marry and reproduce.