I remember that, but I don't think it was foreshadowing. Parson was thinking there was a good chance that going through the Portal would "croak" him and he'd wake up back at home or in a hospital or something, and making a deliberate Oz reference by Parson. I think it was deliberate on Parson's part and not a meta-joke on Erfworld's part.

_________________For those in the USA: Have you wondered what you would do during in the civil rights movement, or in the 1930s?

Well, what did you do yesterday? Now you know.

Let's all be the kind of people we wish everyone had been then. Show up. Call. Resist.

Easteros and Westeregg = inversion of Westeros and Easter Egg. Very clever

The Arkendish would be the broom of the Wicked Witch of the West...except not.

Also, the "Bell of Easteros" is a reference to the Bell of Westeros in ASoFaI.

davesnothere wrote:

efBaum --- I finally got that one.

Which one? L. Frank Baum, or F-bomb?

youngstormlord wrote:

So the things are getting clear. Charlie was summoned the way Parson was [...]

where did you get that from? Judy was summoned to defeat two attuned casters, and it took casters from both efBaum and Haffaton to do it. So how would Charlie have been summoned before that alliance was formed? Where are the required casters?Things aren't so clear, the way you describe them.

joosy wrote:

It sometimes takes several turns before you become attuned to one.

Toper beat me to it, but this seems to me to be just fluff covering for the fact that Dorothy had the (originally not ruby) slippers for the whole movie before finally being taught how to use them.

wrecan wrote:

What spin-off did Doothis make? We know that Doothis founded the Side, but it's not really clear on how a Side gets founded. So we don't know that Doothis was "spun off". Doothis may have been some barbarian warlord who conquered a capital and was able to turn it into a Side.

Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 066 wrote:

An adventurous warlord named Lex Doothis had crossed a great sea and discovered a Level 2 barbarian city on the site. Upon conquering it, he spun off a new side.

How is this hard?

the_tick_rules wrote:

Wow, Charlie finally got some history revealed, awesome. Well now we know he isn't the dish itself.

Most of us already knew that. You may park your tin foil cap on the rack there, next to so many others.

_________________How using capslock wins arguments:

Zeroberon wrote:

So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.

Notice however that a royal side can still have non-royal warlords, and nothing says those non-royal warlords from a royal faction are exempt from spliting off into their own new sides.

Can, yes. But since they pop only Royal and Noble warlords (or at least all warlords we have seen that was popped by a Royal side were either Royal or Noble), then he has to have been turned. And as we know.

Turned and captured units have notoriously low Loyalty to their new side, unless you put a spell on them. Capturing is usually reserved for valuable casters.

So the common commoner warlord belongs to a commoner side.

Not necessarily, as basic infantry can promoted to warlord by payment of smuckers. Stanley himself started as a simple grunt for a king, that eventually earned a promotion to warlord, then to chief warlord, heir and finally Overlord.

Wow, Charlie finally got some history revealed, awesome. Well now we know he isn't the dish itself.

Most of us already knew that. You may park your tin foil cap on the rack there, next to so many others.

It's hard to count the number of theories debunked: Charlie is the dish itselfCharlie is an extra-spacial entity from/in a different worldCharlie is a former member of the GMTTACharlie is a <insert other discipline names here>Charlie is a titanAnd quite a few others I can't pull out of my brain at the moment.

--------

Now that we know some info about Charlie, now is the time to guess how wide spread the information is.

At the bare minimum, the people who know about Charlie's discipline could be limited to the survivors of Faq and Charlie himself. (You have to jump to a few logical hoops to get there: Jack's mind was scrambled, so he may not remember the info in order to give it to Parson. As we saw in Book 1, Wanda doesn't put much effort handing out information. ("You..never" (asked)) The GMTTA don't need that info to consider Charlie an enemy. The carnymancers in the MK could have been paid to act as they are. Perhaps Charlie even hides from his closest archons in his tower.)

At the other end of the scale, the information could now be the worst kept secret in Erfworld. The only people who don't know it are the archons, people that Charlie has the ability to control. Everybody else pretends to respect Charlie's privacy, but they are sniggering at his futile attempts at secrecy behind his back.

--------

I also have to wondor if Bell was a thinkamancer and a member of the GMTTA. The GMTTA seemed to know a bit about the dish's abilities when Issac was ruminating in the playground. They may have had access to it in the past and lost it when Bell died.

Clearly Charlie *is* the dish itself, a false history was planted in the library, and with the help of his close ally Olive. Oldest trick in the book is for 2 villains to pretend to be arch-enemies so any true enemies of one try to be friends with the other and spill their secret plans. (Wanda only knows this history by consulting her side's library and other rather than first hand, lots of thinkomancy and olive garden brainwashing going on)

Being the dish, Charlie is really a titan because the tools are the titans.

You can't prove it isn't true, and your tin foil hat theories that Wanda is telling the truth here after all the addiction and brainwashing she has gone through is just not credible.

Clearly Charlie *is* the dish itself, a false history was planted in the library, and with the help of his close ally Olive. Oldest trick in the book is for 2 villains to pretend to be arch-enemies so any true enemies of one try to be friends with the other and spill their secret plans. (Wanda only knows this history by consulting her side's library and other rather than first hand, lots of thinkomancy and olive garden brainwashing going on)

Being the dish, Charlie is really a titan because the tools are the titans.

You can't prove it isn't true, and your tin foil hat theories that Wanda is telling the truth here after all the addiction and brainwashing she has gone through is just not credible.

You got one thing wrong. Charlie *used* to be Charlie but the dish took him over.

He also modified Wanda's memories. Not for any reason really just for the lulz.

I haven't seen this mentioned this thread, but in the movie, the wicked witch of the west had a crystal ball thing that let her see oz and kansas. Id like to believe that is the arkendish equivalent just like the ruby slippers are the arkenshoes.

Also this does not disprove that Charlie is from another world. He may have already arrived and been established in erfworld at the start of Wandas narrative.

Well there is still the part about him being a carnymancer. Judy and Parson are warlords; though Parson is able to go into the magic kingdom, there is so far nothing that shows us that he is indeed a caster of somekind (and no I do not count what Janis said as that sounded more like a lie to get the other casters to back off)

Wow, Charlie finally got some history revealed, awesome. Well now we know he isn't the dish itself.

Most of us already knew that. You may park your tin foil cap on the rack there, next to so many others.

While I didn't (and still don't) believe this, it's possible that Charlie waspossessed by the Dish, either right after acquiring it or some time later while trying to unlock its secrets. That would explain his secretive nature, at least, and having it be sentient (and capable of that) would fit into its powers as a Thinkamancy artifact.

Unrelated: I wonder if the Arkenshoes have a unit type they can summon? Despite their power, I think that someone who used the Arkendish cleverly would have won a war against anyone who has the shoes without some other ability we have yet to learn about -- after all, no matter how fast you can move, an army of Archons is an army of Archons.

One last conspiracy theory: What if Charlie has infiltrated the Thinkamancers? Nobody knows what he looks like. What if one of them is actually him? That would explain a great deal of what happened with the portal -- they delayed him exactly as long as Charlie needed, and when they let him go through, they didn't allow any casters to go with him (which fit Charlie's plans and didn't seem to help theirs at all.) If Charlie is influencing their decision-making somehow, that could explain it.

Wow, Charlie finally got some history revealed, awesome. Well now we know he isn't the dish itself.

Most of us already knew that. You may park your tin foil cap on the rack there, next to so many others.

While I didn't (and still don't) believe this, it's possible that Charlie waspossessed by the Dish, either right after acquiring it or some time later while trying to unlock its secrets. That would explain his secretive nature, at least, and having it be sentient (and capable of that) would fit into its powers as a Thinkamancy artifact.

Unrelated: I wonder if the Arkenshoes have a unit type they can summon? Despite their power, I think that someone who used the Arkendish cleverly would have won a war against anyone who has the shoes without some other ability we have yet to learn about -- after all, no matter how fast you can move, an army of Archons is an army of Archons.

One last conspiracy theory: What if Charlie has infiltrated the Thinkamancers? Nobody knows what he looks like. What if one of them is actually him? That would explain a great deal of what happened with the portal -- they delayed him exactly as long as Charlie needed, and when they let him go through, they didn't allow any casters to go with him (which fit Charlie's plans and didn't seem to help theirs at all.) If Charlie is influencing their decision-making somehow, that could explain it.

Mostly lame, and yet... it was Maggie who convinced the GMTTA to let Parson in. That part seemed entirely unforced and unstaged. Still, Parson couldn't get in safely without Charlie changing his mind and calling the carneymancers back. Was Charlie just using the carnies to put on a show--without their knowledge? Did Charlie already have a backup plan in place? If Charlie already has that much control over the GMTTA then that whole episode was a pointless farce. Except... their order to keep the casters inside the MK has always felt odd. Was it supposed to be a compromise? They will let Parson through but not his casters? At the time I thought that was fairly crippling, and extremely unfair considering they had just crossed into the MK to see what was going on. Was that the compromise, go if you must but do so with one hand tied behind?

Jack seems to have disappeared from the MK even before the deal was reached. What did he think he knew? I doubt he could see through a portal well enough to fake his presence there, so he must have actuall been inside the MK and used his last juice to vanish and head back on his own. Perhaps he simply saw that a fight was about to break out and he lacked the juice to be of any use. Still, it seems we have unanswered questions.

Unrelated: I wonder if the Arkenshoes have a unit type they can summon? Despite their power, I think that someone who used the Arkendish cleverly would have won a war against anyone who has the shoes without some other ability we have yet to learn about -- after all, no matter how fast you can move, an army of Archons is an army of Archons.

One last conspiracy theory: What if Charlie has infiltrated the Thinkamancers? Nobody knows what he looks like. What if one of them is actually him? That would explain a great deal of what happened with the portal -- they delayed him exactly as long as Charlie needed, and when they let him go through, they didn't allow any casters to go with him (which fit Charlie's plans and didn't seem to help theirs at all.) If Charlie is influencing their decision-making somehow, that could explain it.

Mostly lame, and yet... it was Maggie who convinced the GMTTA to let Parson in. That part seemed entirely unforced and unstaged. Still, Parson couldn't get in safely without Charlie changing his mind and calling the carneymancers back. Was Charlie just using the carnies to put on a show--without their knowledge? Did Charlie already have a backup plan in place? If Charlie already has that much control over the GMTTA then that whole episode was a pointless farce. Except... their order to keep the casters inside the MK has always felt odd. Was it supposed to be a compromise? They will let Parson through but not his casters? At the time I thought that was fairly crippling, and extremely unfair considering they had just crossed into the MK to see what was going on. Was that the compromise, go if you must but do so with one hand tied behind?

Jack seems to have disappeared from the MK even before the deal was reached. What did he think he knew? I doubt he could see through a portal well enough to fake his presence there, so he must have actuall been inside the MK and used his last juice to vanish and head back on his own. Perhaps he simply saw that a fight was about to break out and he lacked the juice to be of any use. Still, it seems we have unanswered questions.

Blocking the actual casters could be a quibble point about the magick kingdom. No casters have ever launched an attack from the magick kingdom. Parson was a rogue anomaly. They can play the victim card, maintain neutrality, and not lose any standing with the rest of erfworld.

Unrelated: I wonder if the Arkenshoes have a unit type they can summon? Despite their power, I think that someone who used the Arkendish cleverly would have won a war against anyone who has the shoes without some other ability we have yet to learn about -- after all, no matter how fast you can move, an army of Archons is an army of Archons.

The archons still aren't cheap though, if you had the amount of money needed to keep an army of archons you could probably afford an army of something that can counter archons even without an arkentool. Plus I don't think the arkentools have to have comparable powers or be balanced against each other, although the possibility exists for quite a few undiscovered powers for the tools.

Unrelated: I wonder if the Arkenshoes have a unit type they can summon? Despite their power, I think that someone who used the Arkendish cleverly would have won a war against anyone who has the shoes without some other ability we have yet to learn about -- after all, no matter how fast you can move, an army of Archons is an army of Archons.

Well keep in mind that right now it is still unverfied whether or not the archons are in fact related to the arkendish. The archon's themselves were unable to answer the question for parson when he asked; so its left ambiguous at best.

Quote:

One last conspiracy theory: What if Charlie has infiltrated the Thinkamancers? Nobody knows what he looks like. What if one of them is actually him? That would explain a great deal of what happened with the portal -- they delayed him exactly as long as Charlie needed, and when they let him go through, they didn't allow any casters to go with him (which fit Charlie's plans and didn't seem to help theirs at all.) If Charlie is influencing their decision-making somehow, that could explain it.

I doubt Charlie would take the risk. First, Charlie is a man of fierce on security and secrets which makes it unlikely that he would actually do things himself... if anything he would send in an agent to infiltrate the group on his behalf, kinda like how he's using Jeffie. Second it's uncertain if no one would recognize him; Charlie may be old but there is no telling how old some of the denizens of the the magic kingdom may be.

Well keep in mind that right now it is still unverfied whether or not the archons are in fact related to the arkendish. The archon's themselves were unable to answer the question for parson when he asked; so its left ambiguous at best.

That would be a very important point if it happens to be true. Can you cite a reference? How can the archons not know this? That would be like Ansom not knowing he was decrypted using the arkenpliers.

Quote:

One last conspiracy theory: What if Charlie has infiltrated the Thinkamancers? Nobody knows what he looks like. What if one of them is actually him? That would explain a great deal of what happened with the portal -- they delayed him exactly as long as Charlie needed, and when they let him go through, they didn't allow any casters to go with him (which fit Charlie's plans and didn't seem to help theirs at all.) If Charlie is influencing their decision-making somehow, that could explain it.

I doubt Charlie would take the risk. First, Charlie is a man of fierce on security and secrets which makes it unlikely that he would actually do things himself... if anything he would send in an agent to infiltrate the group on his behalf, kinda like how he's using Jeffie. Second it's uncertain if no one would recognize him; Charlie may be old but there is no telling how old some of the denizens of the the magic kingdom may be.[/quote]

I do not think a literal infiltration was being suggested, just that Charlie had some hidden intelligence and influence among the GMTTA. It is not unreasonable considering that they have declared themselves to be his enemy, and the amount of influence needed here is small.

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