I have designed a firing range for my 150 acre farm that utilizes a large hill as a backstop. The challenge/concern that I'm facing is that while the hillside projects up about 50 feet from the point of impact behind the targets, the slope is only about 25 degrees or so. So while there is absolutely no question that my rounds will impact the hillside I see the distinct possibility of a round "skipping" off the hard ground and heading up over the hill. I have fired rounds at woodchucks in this field previously and have seen instances where I couldn't find the round at the impact point, it appeared to have "skipped". The nearest house is about a mile away downrange, but I still find this concerning. I don't want any bullet fragments leaving my impact point at all if I can help it.

The second aspect is that I prefer not to dig up a large berm on the hillside if I can avoid it because I use it as a source for hay and drive tractors in it quite frequently. Plus it would be a bit of an eyesore.

I was considering using two large round bales immediately behind the ground impact points to catch any skipped bullets or bullet fragments. I don't believe even a large round bale would stop a rifle round, but I DO think it would easily stop a bullet fragment or even a malformed FMJ round that's already plowed through 12" of hard ground or so.

Thoughts on this? Advice? Obviously safety is of paramount importance in all of this.

-Jeff

Updated: Added a photo of the range from the firing point. You can see two target frames at 50 and 100 yards. There is another at 25 yards, 150 yards, 200 yards, and 400 yards.

have seen instances where I couldn't find the round at the impact point,

I've shot a WHOLE bunch of woodchucks with everything from 22LR up to 30-06. I've never once found the round at the point of impact. Bullets go pretty deep in dirt...

I wouldn't worry about shooting into a hill side of dirt, unless you know there's rocks on the surface or it gets extremely cold in winter with little or no snow.

__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

Beyond not finding the bullets I've actually heard the distinct whine of a bullet flying off into the wild blue yonder shooting that hillside. So I know they do come off the dirt. What you see is a shallow furrow about 12" long maybe 1/2" deep in the center, but angling down from the firing point and back up from roughly the middle of the furrow. So pretty much I know the bullets skip out. It's a pretty distinctive whine when they come out. My guess is that they couldn't possibly make it very far.

Anyways, I should have posted a photo with my original post. . .I've edited it so you can see the hillside, and you can see the massive barn off in the distance as well (it's .9 miles away or so). It looks closer but it isn't, it's a big one.

I have a similar situation. I use 5 gallon pails filled with dirt and the covers on. I stack 2 rows deep and 3 rows high, and cable them to the target posts so they tip over when hit.
Comes time to hay. mow around them or pick them up.

__________________
If you have time to do it twice, then you have time to do it once right and put your name on it

The buckets is an excellent idea! I was thinking about dropping the targets down a few feet (lower angle into the ground as well). Buckets full of dirt just behind the impact point would be perfect! 3 high, 2 deep. . .15 buckets per firing point would do it I think. It would also be interesting to see what does skip and gets caught and what doesn't. . .and what kind of penetration the fragments get. Great idea.

Well, let's do some simple math. Admittedly, it's based on assumptions, but I think they demonstrate the point.

Let's give your ricocheting bullet a VERY generous BC of 0.10. Some actual, stable bullets aren't a whole lot higher than that, so that number is extremely generous for a tumbling bullet.

Let's say it's a 150gr .308 bullet and it leaves the ground at an angle that maximizes it's distance and with a velocity of 1,200 fps.

It's maximum range would be about 1,400 yards, which is 4,200ft.

I'd say that is worst case scenario (maximum distance) in every sense of the word.

If it were a 55gr .223/.22-250 type bullet and had a much lower BC, like 0.05... which might still be generous... it would have a max range of 800 yards if it left the ground at 1,200fps.

__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

I think your initial concerns are spot on! every bullet you let loose are YOUR responsibility!
You seem concerned only about ricochet's, what about a plain high shot??
I the photo you posted, is that a building roof showing at 1:OO??

__________________
Gbro
CGVS
For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

That is a cattle barn off about .9 miles in the distance. I'm not sure any backstop is going to manage to contain a shot that's 30'-40' high Shooting will be done from a rested position and random spraying of rounds will not be permitted.

I needed a back stop for both my rifle and pistol range and did not have a natural one.
So I made a rectangle out of stacked railroad ties, filled the center with compacted dirt, it made a darn good backstop/target butt.
I built this about 25 years ago and I'm still using it today.

I've seen many such traps built with railroad ties and sand. If I were lucky enough to have enough land on which to shoot it is the way I would go. I would think the costs of ties and sand would be way less than excavation unless you have your own back-hoe.

Don't know if it was Lucas McCain who posted awhile back about the five gallon buckets of sand used as a target to capture bullets for melting.
I tried a rudimentary version and it works well. I am looking forward to emptying it in a couple of weeks and reclaiming about 500 lead bullets.
Whoever it was it is a great idea and I appreciate it.

__________________
Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

That is a cattle barn off about .9 miles in the distance. I'm not sure any backstop is going to manage to contain a shot that's 30'-40' high Shooting will be done from a rested position and random spraying of rounds will not be permitted.

You still might want to move your distant target to the left somewhat as that roof looks close enough to a line of fire. Putting some big bales right behind your target stand should help, assuming your shots are close to being on target

__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

NRA publishes a book that provides information on how to build a safe range/backstop.

The manual states that the slope of a dirt berm backstop should be as steep as possible, but not less than 45 degrees (1:1 slope). The manual also advises removing all rocks and other materials that could cause a ricochet.

It states that while natural hills can often be used as the basis for a dirt berm backstop, shaping the impact side is generally required to achieve the proper minimum slope.

You didn't say what caliber you are shooting (and it might be several calibers), but if it's a 22 centerfire, there are several highly explosive bullets that won't ricochet (say the manufacturers). I've gone to a highly frangible bullet (40 gr) in the 223 that I use for critter elimination in the areas around our ranch home. I do not want a ricochet.

And I have a regular range with backstop, where dirt is about 4 or 5 feet high and enclosed by timbers. Except for some unstabilized 60 gr Partitions that went somewhere (not the target) out of my 220 Swift, there's been no danger of bullets flying off into the unknown.

The US DoD/armed forces have a few FMs or field manuals on range specs & how to set up safe ranges. The US Army SF or special forces training manuals or books will help too.
Many of these updated US Army USAF & USMC field manuals are now online or open source. I'd get a few or see; www.deltapress.comwww.paladin-press.com .

I stacked 5-6 used pick up tires each filled with sand. It has stopped everything from .44 mag down in handgun and .243 down in rifle. It has absorbed thousands of rounds and still working great.
The tire shop was more than happy to give me all the tires I asked for.

If it were me, I'd shift my target stands a bit. But I would get a dozier and build a berm behind the 50 yd stand and create a limited area of a steep slope behind the 100 yd target point. The 50 yd target is your likely problem in terms of riccochets. You may know someone who has a small dozier that could do the job. If the scared earth is troublesome to you, I'd just seed the slopes with grass to get some cover on them.

You could do it with a rented Bobcat if the soil is not too hard and the soil zone fairly deep. You can rent them for a weekend (delivered) and they will likely charge you for one day's rental.

What about building a shooting platform to elevate you to increase the angle?

If he's currently at 25dg and he wants to get to the NRA suggested 45dg, from 400 yards away his "shoot-house" would have to be 437 feet tall.

__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

This email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you cannot access TFL via other means. If you are a TFL member and can access TFL, please do not use this link; instead, use the forums (like Questions, Suggestions, and Tech Support) or PM an appropriate mod or admin.

If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance.

This email contact address is not an "Ask the Firearms Expert" service. Such emails will be ignored. If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums.