Recently I've been doing a re-run of DBZ on blu-ray. I've gotten up to the early stages of the Android saga; where Trunks makes his first entrance and Goku finally comes back from outer space.

At that moment, a question was brought to my mind: Is Trunks stronger than Goku at this point in time?

Trunks single-handedly defeated Freeza and his father, King Cold, in a matter of moments. Goku was shown in the anime to have trouble defeating Freeza on Namek (back in the Freeza saga). At first anyway. Then the planet blows up and Goku escapes in a space pod to a far away planet.

When Goku and Trunks hold their private conversation, Goku doesn't state he trained or anything...so it's not like he got any stronger right? All Goku says is that he learned some new techniques and can control SSJ1.

Also, Trunks 'tested' Goku's power during that private conversation. Neither one went full out however. That is clearly seen by the viewers as Goku uses a finger to stop basic attacks from Trunks.

Based on all that information, my personal opinion at this moment is that if Trunks went all out (and Goku did too) then Trunks would win. Am I missing anything? What do you guys think?

For one this is Goku, he doesn't stop training for anything besides food.I seriously doubt he would randomly be able to control SSJ without training whilst in it.Its been a few years after Frieza (like 3?) Goku wouldn't stop training, Goku is someone bent into training. Thats what he was born for.

And didn't Goku state something about not going all out in the Viz Manga? I forget if it was against Frieza or Trunks because I haven't kept up with DBZ lately.

I think it would be pretty close in terms of power levels but I gotta think Goku would have a slightly higher power level and being older and far more trained in fighting would give him the upper hand in beating Trunks.

For one this is Goku, he doesn't stop training for anything besides food.I seriously doubt he would randomly be able to control SSJ without training whilst in it.Its been a few years after Frieza (like 3?) Goku wouldn't stop training, Goku is someone bent into training. Thats what he was born for.

And didn't Goku state something about not going all out in the Viz Manga? I forget if it was against Frieza or Trunks because I haven't kept up with DBZ lately.

That's true. A lot of time did pass since the destruction of Planet Namek and the return of Goku. And I guess you could assume that Goku trained based off of his character. So Goku got a ton stronger since the last fight with Freeza...but I'm wondering now...is that increase in power still enough to take on Trunks?

That's true. A lot of time did pass since the destruction of Planet Namek and the return of Goku. And I guess you could assume that Goku trained based off of his character. So Goku got a ton stronger since the last fight with Freeza...but I'm wondering now...is that increase in power still enough to take on Trunks?

Yes, technique can also be accounted for...so I guess it looks as though Goku could have won.

I would say Trunks was stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek but when he beat Freeza his power level would have risen and he did as stated before probably train which would make him stronger than Trunks

Trunks was probably stronger than Goku was on Namek.But Goku was injured following his fight with Freeza, and would've gained strength upon recovering.Also, the anime (if memory serves) says Goku was gone 2 years, but the manga says one year.

Plus, Trunks was fighting at full power when Goku blocked him. He may not have been trying his hardest, but I'm pretty sure he said he wasn't holding back. Of course, that could be something I simply misinterpreted.

Trunks himself was impressed enough to believe Goku could change the future. Then again, by that point, Trunks had been through a lot of difficult battles, and had much more experience with being a Super-Saiyajin, but he's also a little less talented naturally in combat.

I'd say Trunks may have been a little stronger (not 100% sure of that, and I doubt it was that large of a gap), but Goku's experience, natural talent for fighting, techniques, and sheer enjoyment of battle would probably give him the overall advantage.

Still, that's a thinker, huh?

Logged

"I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet, those hands will never hold anything So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Trunks was probably stronger than Goku was on Namek.But Goku was injured following his fight with Freeza, and would've gained strength upon recovering.Also, the anime (if memory serves) says Goku was gone 2 years, but the manga says one year.

Plus, Trunks was fighting at full power when Goku blocked him. He may not have been trying his hardest, but I'm pretty sure he said he wasn't holding back. Of course, that could be something I simply misinterpreted.

Trunks himself was impressed enough to believe Goku could change the future. Then again, by that point, Trunks had been through a lot of difficult battles, and had much more experience with being a Super-Saiyajin, but he's also a little less talented naturally in combat.

I'd say Trunks may have been a little stronger (not 100% sure of that, and I doubt it was that large of a gap), but Goku's experience, natural talent for fighting, techniques, and sheer enjoyment of battle would probably give him the overall advantage.

Still, that's a thinker, huh?

There really isn't anything special about Trunks' sword, and I think he was simply swinging it, not swinging it while channeling ki through it. Meanwhile Goku's finger was charged with Ki while blocking it. He might not have held back in his swing, but without Ki channeled through the sword it might as well have been a stick. I don't think that little fight between them gives any real measure here.

It's hard to say...In the anime it depicts him as not having Ki flowing through it, it seems, but in the manga he definitely had the aura around it when he slashed at Goku...although when it shows Goku blocking it with his finger, the aura is gone...

Maybe it was just one of those times where Toriyama wasn't paying attention. XD

Like I said, this one is a thinker.

I still stand by my overall analysis though.

Also, a little off-topic, but do you think Goku has to be extra-careful if he picks his nose while SSJ? Sorry, I have no idea where that thought came from. : /

Logged

"I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet, those hands will never hold anything So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

It's hard to say...In the anime it depicts him as not having Ki flowing through it, it seems, but in the manga he definitely had the aura around it when he slashed at Goku...although when it shows Goku blocking it with his finger, the aura is gone...

Maybe it was just one of those times where Toriyama wasn't paying attention. XD

Like I said, this one is a thinker.

I still stand by my overall analysis though.

Also, a little off-topic, but do you think Goku has to be extra-careful if he picks his nose while SSJ? Sorry, I have no idea where that thought came from. : /

yes, otherwise he will poke or otherwise blow away his one remaining brain cell. It's a scrappy, scared little fellow, it has seen too many of it's brethren brought to oblivion by the probing hand of death incarnate.

But back on topic, Goku, like all full blooded saiyans and also technically all half saiyans, has "Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger" written into his blood, and a little "whatever does kill me, makes me stronger when I've gotten over being dead" for good measure. He recovered while on yardat, and because he's Goku, we can assume he probably ate a lot of local bacon and probably picked up the horrible heart disease that killed him in the original timeline there, while he was training with push ups and sit ups and a bacon sandwich in each hand.

I think it's safe to use Goku's own take on the situation to resolve this. Someone was talking to him and asked 'so what would have happened if trunks hadn't been there to kill freeza, you were in that space pod and not close enough to fight.' and goku was all 'well, I would have done this (instant transmissions, steals kame's sunglasses). But I could sense he was strong enough to handle it so I left it to him'. Treating Freeza like an afterthought said to me that Goku thought as little about Freeza and Cold as Trunks did. The way the dramatic tension was built (at least for the anime) it was implying that Trunks (the mysterious stranger) was some unknown new guy that was on par with Goku and here to help. However, since the shonen jump fanbase had such a stranglehold on the outcomes and writing for dbz, I think it's safe to say that if the two of them had fought at the time, Goku would have won because he's Goku.

Getting away from the 'the audience overrode the writer' aspect of it though, even if Goku and Trunks were just on par with strength, Goku would be at an extreme advantage in experience. Trunks, as we see him in the future of trunks movie (right before he heads back in time to join the z fighters at the point in time we're talking about) has been poorly trained by Gohan to try and take on a threat that's just been rather beyond the pair of them for a long time now. Trunks reaches super saiyan, but he doesn't ever really fight a battle that he gets to win against a strong opponent until...mecha freeza and king cold. Up until then, Trunks has only ever really gotten his ass kicked, sparred with Gohan, and figured out some ki moves. While in comparison Goku has gotten his ass kicked 10 ways to sunday, had all the bones in his body broken (at the same time, by vegeta), died and come back to life, and has a winning streak long enough that if it were rope, you could lasso the moon. Goku has been fighting opponents within his ability to handle since he was a kid, and has been picking up new moves, better techniques, and a better developed sense for combat the entire time. In effect, Trunks' fighting career is maybe 3 or 4 years. Goku's is more like 20. So while Trunks might have equal power to Goku, he would lose because of Goku's experience. This would be even worse if Trunks was actually stronger than Goku, because Goku is used to pulling a win out of his ass when he's the weaker fighter.

another dumb thread goku wins.....trunks not even on vegetas level.....

Did you even read it?This is in regards to when Trunks first appeared, not-an-end of Z Goku vs Trunks.This is comparing Goku from after his time on Yardrat to Mirai no Trunks first appearing and killing Freeza.

Logged

"I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet, those hands will never hold anything So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

another dumb thread goku wins.....trunks not even on vegetas level.....

........ Seriously did you even read the thread ? You're 12 :l

So id say Trunks would win . Since He could handle frieza so easilly . Tho Goku put up a hell of a fight to kill her . Also i think Mecha Frieza was even stronger than before . Goku i dont think he stands a chance against trunks at that timeline . Thats my opinion tho