What Conservatives Really Want: Total Control

This article was originally published by and is cross-posted from TruthOut.

Dedicated to the peaceful protestors in Wisconsin, February 19, 2011.

The central issue in our political life is not being discussed. At stake is the moral basis of American democracy.

The individual issues are all too real: assaults on unions, public employees, women’s rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting and on and on.

Budget deficits are a ruse, as we’ve seen in Wisconsin, where the Governor turned a surplus into a deficit by providing corporate tax breaks, and then used the deficit as a ploy to break the unions, not just in Wisconsin, but seeking to be the first domino in a nationwide conservative movement.

Deficits can be addressed by raising revenue, plugging tax loopholes, putting people to work and developing the economy long-term in all the ways the president has discussed. But deficits are not what really matter to conservatives.

Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of life.

In the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama accurately described the basis of American democracy: empathy — citizens caring for each other, both social and personal responsibility — acting on that care, and an ethic of excellence. From these, our freedoms and our way of life follow, as does the role of government: to protect and empower everyone equally. Protection includes safety, health, the environment, pensions. Empowerment starts with education and infrastructure. No one can be free without these, and without a commitment to care and act on that care by one’s fellow citizens.

The conservative worldview rejects all of that.

Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don’t think government should help its citizens. That is, they don’t think citizens should help each other. The part of government they want to cut is not the military (we have 174 bases around the world), not government subsidies to corporations, not the aspect of government that fits their worldview. They want to cut the part that helps people. Why? Because that violates individual responsibility.

But where does that view of individual responsibility alone come from?

The way to understand the conservative moral system is to consider a strict father family. The father is The Decider, the ultimate moral authority in the family. His authority must not be challenged. His job is to protect the family, to support the family (by winning competitions in the marketplace), and to teach his kids right from wrong by disciplining them physically when they do wrong. The use of force is necessary and required. Only then will children develop the internal discipline to become moral beings. And only with such discipline will they be able to prosper. And what of people who are not prosperous? They don’t have discipline, and without discipline they cannot be moral, so they deserve their poverty. The good people are hence the prosperous people. Helping others takes away their discipline, and hence makes them both unable to prosper on their own and function morally.

The market itself is seen in this way. The slogan, “Let the market decide” assumes the market itself is The Decider. The market is seen as both natural (since it is assumed that people naturally seek their self-interest) and moral (if everyone seeks their own profit, the profit of all will be maximized by the invisible hand). As the ultimate moral authority, there should be no power higher than the market that might go against market values. Thus the government can spend money to protect the market and promote market values, but should not rule over it either through (1) regulation, (2) taxation, (3) unions and worker rights, (4) environmental protection or food safety laws, and (5) tort cases. Moreover, government should not do public service. The market has service industries for that.

Thus, it would be wrong for the government to provide health care, education, public broadcasting, public parks and so on. The very idea of these things is at odds with the conservative moral system. No one should be paying for anyone else. It is individual responsibility in all arenas. Taxation is thus seen as taking money away from those who have earned it and giving it to people who don’t deserve it. Taxation cannot be seen as providing the necessities of life for a civilized society, and, as necessary, for business to prosper.

In conservative family life, the strict father rules. Fathers and husbands should have control over reproduction; hence, parental and spousal notification laws and opposition to abortion. In conservative religion, God is seen as the strict father, the Lord, who rewards and punishes according to individual responsibility in following his Biblical word.

Above all, the authority of conservatism itself must be maintained. The country should be ruled by conservative values, and progressive values are seen as evil. Science should have authority over the market, and so the science of global warming and evolution must be denied. Facts that are inconsistent with the authority of conservatism must be ignored or denied or explained away. To protect and extend conservative values themselves, the devil’s own means can be used against conservatism’s immoral enemies, whether lies, intimidation, torture or even death, say, for women’s doctors.

Freedom is defined as being your own strict father – with individual, not social, responsibility, and without any government authority telling you what you can and cannot do. To defend that freedom as an individual, you will, of course, need a gun.

This is the America that conservatives really want. Budget deficits are convenient ruses for destroying American democracy and replacing it with conservative rule in all areas of life.

What is saddest of all is to see Democrats helping them.

Democrats help radical conservatives by accepting the deficit frame and arguing about what to cut. Even arguing against specific “cuts” is working within the conservative frame. What is the alternative? Pointing out what conservatives really want. Point out that there is plenty of money in America, and in Wisconsin. It is at the top. The disparity in financial assets is un-American – the top one percent has more financial assets than the bottom 95 percent. Middle-class wages have been flat for 30 years, while the wealth has floated to the top. This fits the conservative way of life, but not the American way of life.

Democrats help conservatives by not shouting out loud, over and over, that it was conservative values that caused the global economic collapse: lack of regulation and a greed-is-good ethic.

Democrats also help conservatives by what a friend has called “Democratic Communication Disorder.” Republican conservatives have constructed a vast and effective communication system, with think tanks, framing experts, training institutes, a system of trained speakers, vast holdings of media and booking agents. Eighty percent of the talking heads on TV are conservatives. Talk matters, because language heard over and over changes brains. Democrats have not built the communication system they need, and many are relatively clueless about how to frame their deepest values and complex truths.

And Democrats help conservatives when they function as policy wonks — talking policy without communicating the moral values behind the policies. They help conservatives when they neglect to remind us that pensions are deferred payments for work done. “Benefits” are pay for work, not a handout. Pensions and benefits are arranged by contract. If there is not enough money for them, it is because the contracted funds have been taken by conservative officials and given to wealthy people and corporations instead of to the people who have earned them.

Democrats help conservatives when they use conservative words like “entitlements” instead of “earnings” and speak of government as providing “services” instead of “necessities.”

Is there hope?

I see it in Wisconsin, where tens of thousands citizens see through the conservative frames and are willing to flood the streets of their capital to stand up for their rights. They understand that democracy is about citizens uniting to take care of each other, about social responsibility as well as individual responsibility, and about work – not just for your own profit, but to help create a civilized society. They appreciate their teachers, nurses, firemen, police and other public servants. They are flooding the streets to demand real democracy – the democracy of caring, of social responsibility and of excellence, where prosperity is to be shared by those who work and those who serve.

Lakoff is right about one thing there is a battle going on…and it will be a fight to the end. The fight is about morals over issues like he mentioned. There are two complete and vastly different worldviews facing off. And the two sides disagree on everything…and so it seems that there can be no compromises.

Lakoff talks a socialist president that has so duped his servants (oh I mean citizens)…that they are completely brainwashed as to his global goals for America. We have always been a caring nation and always the first to help other nations in distress. Where has he been? Oh thats right Michelle never was proud of her country. Obama is blind concerning American history, has no clue what we are all about. He doesn’t have any idea how many states even make up the United States. He had no clue how many bombs were even dropped at Pearl Harbor and he had no clue that the man he called uncle for over twenty years, the godfather to his children the man who married him had such negative views about America that came to light during the campaign. Amazing isn’t it? His communist friends….his shady dealings in Chicago……a Ivy league elitist that had a plan years ago to make this country into a socialist state. No wonder that his friends Dohrn and Ayers….his communist connections influenced his worldview and who he carefully selected to be the new Czars of the White House. And we American idiots voted him in. Obamas kind of empathy is to redistribute the wealth by making the rich support everyone…open the borders and invite the world in at the expense of the American taxpayers. He no more wants our borders safe…than he wants to keep our Space program. Funny that Obama has always lived a privileged life….attending Ivy League schools, hob nobbing with the rich. An Obama against free speech, capitalism, personal responsibility, guns…and for the slaughter of the unborn, forced public education, destructive unions and BIG BIG government. He is anti American in every sense of the word and would sell us out to the highest bidder….maybe China. He is a master manipulator.

Lakoff didn’t do his homework. It is the Republican Party that has always defended minorities not Democrats. They are the party with the heart. Look at the civil rights records of both parties and you will be shocked at what Democrats did.

“The Republicans inculcate, with whatever ability they can, that the Negro is a man, that his bondage is cruelly wrong, and that the field of his oppression ought not to be enlarged. The Democrats deny his manhood; deny, or dwarf to insignificance the wrong of his bondage; so far as possible, crush all sympathy for him, and cultivate and excite hatred and disgust against him; compliment themselves as Union-savers for doing so; and call the indefinite spreading of his bondage a sacred right of self-government.” Abraham Lincoln

“And Republicans should not hesitate to shame Democrats into admitting that theirs was the slavery party, the party of the Ku Klux Klan, of Jim Crow, lynchings, burnings and Senator Robert Byrd. It was Democratic judges in the South who only forty years ago strove to keep blacks in their place and out of the polling booth — not Republicans.

It was Republican Justice Warren, an Eisenhower appointee, who stood up to the South’s segregationist politicians, not a Democratic appointed judge. It was Warren’s actions that finally brought about the full emancipation of all of America’s blacks. And it was a Republican president who backed him.”

I think it was Wallace a Democratic leader in the 60’s who was credited with saying, “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.” It was It was Truman, a Democrat who called fellow Congressman Adam Clayton Powell, “That damned n—– preacher.”

I can say this……I don’t think a former KKK member has ever been elected to a high office in the Republican party.

arekushieru

Lakoff talks a socialist president that has so duped his servants (oh I mean citizens)…that they are completely brainwashed as to his global goals for America. We have always been a caring nation and always the first to help other nations in distress.

Obama is not a socialist. I am not a socialist even though I am a social democrat. With Republicans in control, the first thing that went by the way side was helping nations in distress. Obama’s global goals for the US are far less scary (if they’re scary, at all) than those of Republicans.

Oh thats right Michelle never was proud of her country.

It doesn’t take much searching to find out why she wasn’t. Her paternal AND maternal families were descended from slaves. Barack was not. His family were immigrants, both on his maternal AND paternal side.

He doesn’t have any idea how many states even make up the United States.

Really? This sounds like more twisted reasoning from the forced-birther side. Some people count one of the Central American countries as one of the States. Some people include Hawaii, too. But, of course, forced-birthers would rather restrict all possible answers to their narrow worldview (y’know, the one where only THEY would be the correct ones?).

He had no clue how many bombs were even dropped at Pearl Harbor

Now this just sounds like sour grapes. What does that have to do with seeking the office of POTUS?

he had no clue that the man he called uncle for over twenty years, the godfather to his children the man who married him had such negative views about America that came to light during the campaign.

Proof, please.

His communist friends….his shady dealings in Chicago……a Ivy league elitist that had a plan years ago to make this country into a socialist state.

Communism =/= socialism.

No wonder that his friends Dohrn and Ayers….his communist connections influenced his worldview and who he carefully selected to be the new Czars of the White House.

Again, read above. And, seriously, look up the word Czar.

Obamas kind of empathy is to redistribute the wealth by making the rich support everyone…

As opposed to making the poor support everyone, as the Republicans want to do?

open the borders and invite the world in at the expense of the American taxpayers.

As opposed to closing the borders and barring the world from coming in at the expense of the health and life of the populations in the impoverished world, as the Republicans want to do?

He no more wants our borders safe…than he wants to keep our Space program.

Ah, then, you would prefer a military state such as that supported by Hitler nor do you really want to reduce wasteful spending. Btw, closing your borders while spying on others is hypocrisy at its finest, something Republicans would support.

Funny that Obama has always lived a privileged life….attending Ivy League schools, hob nobbing with the rich.

Not as privileged as many Republicans, THAT’s for sure.

An Obama against free speech, capitalism, personal responsibility, guns…and for the slaughter of the unborn, forced public education, destructive unions and BIG BIG government.

Obama protects freedom TO speech and freedom FROM speech. Obama is the one who REALLY supports freedom OF speech.

It’s funny that you put capitalism and personal responsibility right next to each other, when capitalism is the epitome of irresponsibility, as demonstrated in its current form, anyways, corporatocracy. Socialism for the wealthy and the left-overs for the hungry and poor. This was very neatly demonstrated on Wall Street during the modern stock market crash, something the Republicans stood strongly for.

As opposed to the slaughter of women that anti-choice Republicans, such as yourself, support?

You think forced education is worse than forced violation of someone’s physical autonomy? Especially when that education will reduce the number of times that violation can be enforced ON the lower impoverished classes? Yeah, you sure stand with the Repukelicans, don’t you?

Unions have reduced the numbers of abuses that were forced on women and children who worked at low-paying jobs, from early morning until late at night, in slave-like conditions. Where’s your concern for the born children (although I know it would be useless to ask for your concern about women, because it’s non-existent), now?

What’s wrong with big government?

He is anti American in every sense of the word and would sell us out to the highest bidder….maybe China. He is a master manipulator.

The first ones to sell you out to China were the Repukelicans. Understandable, since they want to enforce policies very similar to China’s.

Lakoff didn’t do his homework. It is the Republican Party that has always defended minorities not Democrats. They are the party with the heart. Look at the civil rights records of both parties and you will be shocked at what Democrats did.

It’s you who didn’t do your homework, especially since it’s something that’s been clearly stated amongst various threads: The Republicans of yesterday = the Democrats of today. The Democrats of yesterday = the Repukelicans of today.

“In 1865, Congressional Republicans unanimously backed the 13th Amendment, which made slavery unconstitutional. Among Democrats, 63 percent of senators and 78 percent of House members voted: “No.”

With the above statement also in mind, Democrats never supported slavery, but Repukelicans endorse these policies to this day. EsPECially when they talk about the enslavement of women.

I can say this……I don’t think a former KKK member has ever been elected to a high office in the Republican party.

Really? Even IF we were to ignore all the previous references between yesterday and todays Democrats and Republicans, I find it hard to believe that you can really be that naive.

plume-assassine

a socialist president

Obama is not a socialist. You don’t even know what socialism or communism means. It’s just a scary, scary buzzword!

He doesn’t have any idea how many states even make up the United States. He had no clue how many bombs were even dropped at Pearl Harbor

What is this BS? Do I need mention the overwhelming stupidity of Dubya or Palin?

His communist friends….his shady dealings in Chicago……a Ivy league elitist that had a plan years ago to make this country into a socialist state.

This is some Jonestown Kool-aid right here. What “communist friends”? Are socialism and communism interchangeable now? roflmao What “shady dealing” in Chicago? Oh, do you mean community organizing? OH NOES.

Ivy Leage elitist, eh? What do you have against higher education? George W. Bush was ivy league educated, but you wouldn’t call him an elitist, I bet. Hmmm

It is the Republican Party that has always defended minorities not Democrats. They are the party with the heart. Look at the civil rights records of both parties and you will be shocked at what Democrats did.

We’ve been over this befooooore, but you never responded to it. Like I said, you are afraid of the truth. Here, I will copy/paste it for you:

“It’s not so much Republican vs. Democrat as it is North vs. South. Traditionally, the north has been more liberal on social and economic issues — the political party is irrelevant. The south has traditionally been averse to change and racist. Historically, southerners were mostly Democrats — today they are mostly Republicans. Are you aware that the political parties have shifted ideologies since the 60’s (possibly even earlier, during New Deal era)?

The Republican party today absolutely does NOT defend minorities. Their primary interest is in protecting the privileges of the rich, white, Christian male.

What’s really disturbing is that you (and many other conservatives) want to permanently close the border and turn America in a patriarchal theocracy like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

plume-assassine

Some people include Hawaii, too.

Hawaii is an official state of the US (added in 1959), so I would certainly hope that people include it. I don’t fault you for this, though, since you are from Canada.

arekushieru

When I mentioned that, I was referring to people who seem to have taken the hardline position that it is NOT a state in the United States. Yes, I’m serious, I have encountered people such as this. ><;

plume-assassine

ohh okay, thanks for the clarification. Yes, the only reason those people are “so certain” that Hawaii isn’t an official state… is… *drum roll*

because Obama was born there.

And if Hawaii ain’t a real state then Obama ain’t a real President.

Y’know, birth certificate conspiracies, except worse.

ack

Among people who don’t like Obama: Hawaii is only a state when they want to vacation there, or have the RNC convention there, without getting a passport.

ack

How many anti-brown-people laws have AZ Republicans passed? How many are they running?

If Ds are so inherently racist, why do people of color gravitate toward the left? Why did she need to go back decades, and then a century and a half, to find examples?

And, because I just can’t help myself…Strom Thurmond. Too racist for the Dems, so he went Republican. He was accepted and re-elected for DECADES.

Racism exists in both parties. This is deplorable, and is representative of the racism that exists in our society at large. However, only one seems to consistently and actively work against the interests of people of color today. They deny the existence of racism. They refuse to admit that not everyone is born on an equal playing field.

I was born a female. I’m white. I recognize that while I lack privilege because I’m a woman, I am NOT in the same position as a black woman, or a Latina.

Churchmouse needs to go to a couple of really uncomfortable workshops.

arekushieru

GO, GO, GOOOO, ack!

I realize I lack privilege as a woman, but as a white, cisgendered, heterosexual female, I definitely occupy the more privileged spectrum than those who are described as being of colour, transgendered and homosexual.

ack

It is kyriarchy that we need to be cognizant of and fighting against. In high school, I was in a predominantly white community. I was pissed about how my body image was influenced and shaped by media. I was pissed that as a female, I was community property. It wasn’t until college and beyond that I realized that in being white, cisgendered, uppermiddle class, mostly able, US born, young, and having a preference for relationships with males that yes, I was and am underprivileged compared to my male counterparts with the equivalent identities, but I was and am also extremely privileged.

scottulsa

Obamas kind of empathy is to redistribute the wealth by making the rich support everyone…
As opposed to making the poor support everyone, as the Republicans want to do?

I just enjoyed the rebuttal of “Obama’s A Socialist” so much that I wanted to repeat it.

A unique perspective that I don’t hear very often, “Making the poor support everyone as the republicans want to do”. Should probably be espoused much more often just to illustrate how creepy the right really is!!!

rebellious-grrl

Mouse – I take it you’re a regular viewer of “Faux” News and you listen to Glenn Beck. Your post is a complete fabrication of lies.

freetobe

For explaining this so clearly and how it really is. I am going to share this article.

Oh and by the way I have been overtalking many, many conservatives unfortunately it goes over their heads or they do not respond. maybe it is because i know what they are up to.

I also feel that the conservative party is far from moral in any way although they CLAIM to be. The lies the cheating and stealing from the poor to give to the rich is dispicable and personally I feel that the conservatives have sold their souls to the devil never to return.

They have proven over and over they do not know what real christianity is. I have been reading the bible and I do not see where it says anywhere that women should be mistreated if anything it says that a man and woman stand side by side with each other and work with each other.

Also one forgets that the Bible was mostly written by men for men and the only parts that are NOT sexist are when Jesus and God have actually spoken. The Bible is an ancient writing for an ancient and very different time and not all people believe in it or Jesus, but one thing I do know is that Jesus never judged anyone He was for choice to follow Him or not.

Jesus was not a Patriarchal tyrant and women in the Bible adored him as I do :) Maybe they need to go back and relearn about Jesus who was peace and love and who saved us mortals from sin by giving His own life. Maybe if they were more like Jesus women would not be forced into poverty but actually would be able to marry a decent guy who they could adore and be adored as well. True love is the only thing that brings on this feeling that I know of and it is sorely lacking in this world.

crowepps

Some people can’t grasp that although Hawaii was a territory until 1959, that isn’t relevant, since Obama wasn’t actually born until 1961. And of course he can’t produce the official copy of his birth certificate generated at the time because he was just a tiny baby and nobody handed it to HIM.

nonsense-nonsense

Can someone point out to the OP that the states with the biggest budget shortfalls aren’t exactly bastions of conservatism? States like California, Illinois, New York and New Jersey aren’t broke because they’re giving corporations tax breaks or whatever; they’re broke because they’re being held hostage by unions, trying to support programs they can’t fund and, in the case of California, paying to clothe, house, feed and educate illegals.

churchmouse

“Obama has declared that he believes every person has a “right” to health care. The Socialist Party USA believes every person has a “right” to health care.”

Obama believes that labor unions should be allowed to organize without a secret ballot. The Socialist Party USA calls for unions to be recognized without a secret ballot.

The Socialist Party USA recognizes the “right” of adequate housing for everyone. Obama trained ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) workers to secure mortgages for unqualified people in sufficient numbers to collapse the housing and home-financing industries.

The Socialist Party USA believes that “capitalism is fundamentally incompatible” with socialism. For years, Obama worked in Chicago through the Annenberg Challenge, along with Bill Ayers, to funnel more than $50 million to anti-capitalist education projects. In November 2006, Ayers traveled to Venezuela to speak at Hugo Chavez’s Education Forum where he railed against “the failings of capitalist education,” and praised the “Bolivarian Revolution and the profound reforms in education made by Hugo Chavez.”

The Socialist Party USA believes in open borders and six-months residency as the only requirement for U.S. citizenship. Obama marched with illegal aliens in Chicago in support of “comprehensive” immigration reform. Listen to Obama’s promises to La Raza in 2007.

The Socialist Party USA calls for the “unconditional disarmament” by the United States. Obama has promised to dramatically reduce defense spending.

The Socialist Party USA calls for a “livable guaranteed annual income.” Obama trained ACORN members to conduct “Living Wage” campaigns in cities around the country.

It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too. My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody. I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.

Close the border you say. You bet your sweet behind I do. I am all for immigration…and would welcome any one who wants to be an American IF THEY FOLLOW THE LAWS TO BECOME A CITIZEN. you radicals want and welcome people who break the laws. You want us to support the world.

churchmouse

As I said………we never had a member of the KKK in the Republican Party.

Funny you did not refute or address any of the FACTS i gave you about your precious party. LOL

After all, EVERYBODY knows that socialists think and Obama thinks, and that means Obama must be a socialist. EVERYBODY know that socialists believe in diversity and Obama believes in diversity, and that means Obama must be a socialist. EVERYBODY knows that socialists believe in trying to make life better for everyone and Obama is trying to make life better for everyone and that means Obama must be a socialist.

If Obama were a REAL American, he wouldn’t be able to think, he would be terrified of anybody being different and he would be trying to make everyone’s life worse — like churchmouse

plume-assassine

Obama has declared that he believes every person has a “right” to health care.

As opposed to only the rich and privileged people having the right to healthcare? Just let the poor folks keep dying because their financial status somehow means they are less human and less deserving of healthcare?

Do you even care about people at all? There are millions of children who do not have healthcare, because people like YOU think they don’t deserve it.

the “right” of adequate housing for everyone. Obama trained ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) workers to secure mortgages for unqualified people in sufficient numbers to collapse the housing and home-financing industries.

Oh, yes, let’s blame the poor people and *gasp* ACORN for the collapse of the housing market! Fail. The blame rests with Wall Street and big banks.

What, do you think that poor and lower-middle-class people don’t deserve adequate housing?

Obama marched with illegal aliens in Chicago in support of “comprehensive” immigration reform

This is some offensive shit right here. DROP THE “I” WORD! Those “”illegal aliens”” that you are referring to are PEOPLE and, no, not all of them are criminals as you seem to believe. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to become an American citizen?

Do you even know what a Living Wage is? It’s the amount that one needs to make in order to pay for housing, food, and other family needs. The minimum wage in this country is currently not a living wage for most people. There is nothing wrong with wanting minimum wage workers to be able to afford food and a place to live.

Obama has promised to increase the tax burden on the rich to redistribute wealth to the poor

Oh no, not the rich people!!! How dare he try to take a small fraction of their hard-earned billions and redistribute it to people living on a $8/hr. wage!!! Those single mothers need to learn how hard it is to work as a Wal-Mart CEO and then maybe they will make more money!

colleen

You just aren’t getting the LOGIC of her position

I’m still struggling with the notion that the ‘pro-life’ movement is opposed to the everyone having access to basic necessities like healthcare. The same morons who go on about ‘beating hearts after 14 days of gestation’ and the horrors of assisted suicide would deny the post born healthcare when we cannot afford to pay for it.

I’m still struggling with the notion that House republicans just cut funding for nutritional support for pregnant low income women and not ONE republican or Republican organization (such as the Catholic Bishops) uttered a squeak of protest. We’re supposed to believe that any of these people give a crap about ‘human life’ born or unborn? .

ack

Except that both parties own David Duke. Other posters have also explained the ideological flip that happened, which means that right around the time that the flip was happening, David Duke (drumroll) WENT REPUBLICAN.

If you can find evidence of ties to white supremacy groups and/or racist activites from the last 20 years, please provide it. (I mean actual racism, not comments that provoked a “BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHIIIITEEE PEOPLE???” response.) Until then, I give you Trent Lott, Paul Babeu, Strom Thurmond, Russell Pearce, Reagan…

And I’ll offer the fact that McCain lost 90% of the black vote in 2008. 90%.

I am certainly not proud of some of the history of the Democratic Party. I assume you’re not proud of some of the history of the Republicans, either. What I do know is that the current Dems more closely represent my viewpoint, which is what’s important when I fill out my ballot.

crowepps

Sex is for rich people.

ack

Those were the cuts that made me stare at the computer. For a few seconds. Because I realized, for the umpteenth time, that they are not pro-life, they are anti-poor people.

ack

I had the EXACT same thought earlier today. Only it was more that the Republican motto seems to be “Don’t have sex unless you can pay for it.” Which is mean, but made me giggle in the publicly funded park I was enjoying.

I appreciate your existence, crowepps.

crowepps

Probably something upbeat like “employment retraining center” but considering that the rhetoric this time is a direct echo of that in the 1800’s, there’s no likelihood they will be much different inside.

Even before the 1834 Poor Law, to go into a workhouse meant the loss of many freedoms. Inmates were not free to come and go at will; they lost the privacy of their own home; and they were given unpleasant work, such as breaking stones into gravel for road repair. The workhouse provided its inmates food and shelter, but no more than the bare necessities. The 1834 Poor Law added to the workhouse’s existing disincentives by prohibiting inmates from enjoying tobacco or alcohol; requiring inmates to wear uniforms; by segregating adults by sex, and prohibiting married couples from cohabitation.

Likely they will encourage people to ‘graduate’ out into the workforce by posting uplifting slogans, like “Work Shall Make You Free”

ack

You responded to the tl;dr regurgitation of ZOMG!OBAMA!SOCIALISM! so much better than I would have.

/applause

plus

/dance of agreement (it’s sort of a jig+electric slide)

nonsense-nonsense

If a state goes broke trying to assure that everyone has access to basic necessities, of which healthcare isn’t, then no one in that state is going to have access to any necessities at all on account of there being no money for anyone nor anything. It’s very simple logic.

ack

If you’re a woman and can’t afford to have a baby, you shouldn’t have sex. And if you’re a woman, you shouldn’t have sex unless your in a het marriage. So you shouldn’t get married unless you can afford to have a baby, and therefore sex.

lak;ni;oienaneiao;nkdlnaio

Oh, sorry. That was the force of vomit on my keyboard.

ack

Except when you live in a place like AZ, with countless tax loopholes and exemptions and a legislature that refuses to explore revenue options, it’s not that the state has no money. They just don’t want to tax things like the purchase of golf carts, pedicures, and hair cuts. Cuz those are things rich people like!

ack

Guess what busted their budget?

Tax breaks to corporations.

plume-assassine

Wait… are you saying that healthcare is not a basic necessity? How is it not?

I can’t imagine anyone telling uninsured children that they don’t need to see a doctor when they are really sick because “healthcare isn’t a basic necessity.” What do you have without your health?

arekushieru

If a woman goes broke trying to assue that her fetus has access to basic necessities, of which healthcare isn’t, then no one in the woman’s household is going to have access to any necessities at all on account of there being no money for anyone nor anything. It’s very simple logic.

plume-assassine

Thanks, ack

I’m a liberal independent voter, but I’m getting tired of all the weird conspiracy theories about Obama. According to all of the conservative talking heads and the foamers in the Tea Party, he is simultaneousy a Muslim Fascist Socialist Communist Anti-Christ.

/breakdance

arekushieru

LPA, if healthcare isn’t a necessity, then there is no such thing as a right to life. Especially since life is presupposed by bodily integrity and health is a very necessary part of maintaining your bodily integrity. It’s comments like these that expose the hypocrisy of their movement. Maintaining the bodily integrity of the fetus is a much higher priority than maintaining the bodily integrity of the woman.

ack

When poor kids get sick, they should just drink orange juice! What? You mean their parents can’t buy orange juice anymore because we’ve eliminated WIC?

faiae;noinc;enmionaweio

Oh, sorry. That was the force of vomit on my keyboard.

plume-assassine

Brilliant post, Arekushieru. Thank you for pointing that out.

ack

Don’t forget Immigrant.

In general, you rock AND roll.

/double freak

arekushieru

Well, except for Socialist and Communist, and with the addition of Corporatist, everything you mentioned, there, could actually apply to the Tea Party, imho.

ack

If healthcare isn’t a basic necessity, why are we expecting women to provide physical healthcare to fetuses?

You people are so smart. Massive appreciation to all of you. You make me think.

nonsense-nonsense

1.) There are no loopholes to close which will be able to generate $974M in revenue. The only way to close budget shortfalls are to raise taxes or to cut government programs. And since no one wants to raise taxes, then programs get cut. It’s really that simple.

2.) That’s precisely what I said. There are only three necessities in life; food, water and shelter (you could add sleep in there, too).

arekushieru

And not everyone gets those basic necessities, so what do you think makes up for the shortfall?

No one wants to raise taxes? Well, yeah, the ones who don’t pay their fair share of taxes, like corporations, don’t want to raise them, but, what do you think happens when programs get cut? The poor suffer and budget shortfalls start adding up, again. Whoops, really didn’t think that through, did you?

arekushieru

Thank you, Scott! :)

nonsense-nonsense

LPA, if healthcare isn’t a necessity, then there is no such thing as a right to life. Especially since life is presupposed by bodily integrity and health is a very necessary part of maintaining your bodily integrity.

Surely, I hope you’re joking with this. Please show me where the right to life is presupposed by the ‘right’ to bodily integrity or is even considered contingent on it. I’ve asked this before, and every single time I ask, you guys skip town.

ack

Since AZ voters approved a measure by a supermajority to raise the sales tax to fund health/human services and education, I don’t think #1 holds much water.

In AZ, we’re too dependent on the sales tax and the housing market. We need to rewrite our entire tax code. State legislators are content to eliminate general fund spending on things like schools, forcing cities, towns, and counties to increase property taxes to make up the cut. But hey, the STATE didn’t increase taxes, so Representatives and Senators fulfilled their pledge to a governor who hasn’t been in power for a decade.

In AZ, closing tax loopholes for luxury items would protect a lot of services. Rewriting the tax code would protect a lot more.

As for number two… Maslow’s table works to an extent, but we’re cutting access to food and shelter. And inadequate food and inadequate shelter makes healthcare even more of a necessity. So again… in AZ, not much water in your argument.

Then again, I live in the desert.

arekushieru

Every time we ask you where there’s a right to be left alone, or you’re told that if the fetus has the right to be left alone, so does the woman, YOU skip town.

I never said it was presupposed by the ‘right’ to bodily integrity. I said it was presupposed by bodily integrity. Really, do learn to read. Bodily integrity is that which maintains an organisms life functions. If someone’s kidney, brain, liver, etc… functions, fail or otherwise go out of sync with the rest of the body, your integrity is affected and your life is put at risk. SO simple.

plume-assassine

Um, no. Most developed nations recognize that food, water, shelter, sanitation, and healthcare are all basic needs. I think you seriously lack compassion for fellow (wo)man if you think that certain people don’t deserve healthcare. Access to healthcare is a global human rights concern. Again, would you like to tell a family with uninsured children that their sick kids are SOL because they don’t “need” to see a doctor?

crowepps

Actually, the first necessary requirement of life is physical safety — something provided by having police to restrain bullies and by the ability to access medical care. Only when a person is going to remain ALIVE do they worry about water, food, clothing, and shelter, all of which they can provide for themselves if given access to necessary education and training.

Personally, I have no problem AT ALL raising taxes.

First let’s limit the tax exemption for mortgage deductions to only one personal residence with an upper limit on value of $500,000. Anybody with more house than than doesn’t need an exemption.

Collecting social security from every dollar earned in each worker’s first million annually would go a long way towards stabilizing that program.

And of course the first step in cutting spending would be to bring all the troops home immediately from all the various overseas bases — if the corporations and the oil companies want to run the world, let them hire mercenaries directly without using our government as their middleman. They can afford it — we can’t.

nonsense-nonsense

When you tax corporations, they either relocate to another tax friendly state, taking jobs with them, or they lay off workers. California is a good example of this happening. When programs get cut, everyone suffers as everyone has to make do with less. Take a look a governor Chris Christie of New Jersey; he basically slashed everything. Saying that budget shortfalls would start up again because the government would be spending less relative to what it makes is such an incredibly ridiculous comment, to the point where nothing more needs to be said of it.

crowepps

The Conspiracy Theory of the Day is that Obama is “busing Union goons into Wisconsin”.

Strange how the TeaParty whackaloons, who held numerous assemblies where armed fanatics waved around signs about killing the infidel and promised to destroy our government, claim that the people in Wisconsin”peacefully assembling to petititon their government for redress of grievances” are ‘goons’.

arekushieru

Um, yeah, you can’t extrapolate very well, can you. The costs of administration with private insurance are well above those of single universal health care coverage. With more people on private insurance and trying to make payments, those costs are going to skyrocket. And, they’re going to skyrocket even more, when people seek out emergency services more often, because they can’t afford to make the payments up front.

crowepps

Well, sure, because women like that are IMPROVIDENT. They did not “plan for the future”. Because, you know, if you make a PLAN, then that’s EXACTLY the way everything will turn out and there won’t be any surprises that require anybody else to turn over a few pennies to keep your kids from starving.

Gotta wonder, how long do you think it’ll be as we continue the apparently inexorable slide down into this neoDickensian world before we have gangs of homeless children begging on streetcorners? And cops shooting them as a public nuisance? Of course, they won’t be INNOCENT children, so I guess that’ll be ‘moral’.

crowepps

It would certainly make a lot more sense to put all of society back on a free market basis and eliminate government paid law enforcement, so that we can return to the ‘traditional’ livelihood for the poor of stealing their living.

It seems pretty unfair to structure things so that the rich can make a fortune by exploiting their workers and then require the same citizens they’re ripping off to chip in to hire cops that prevent anyone from stealing some of it back.

ack

When we cut funding to social services, we simply shift that cost to other programs. Cut child abuse prevention? Expect to see at least that cost in the courts, jails, and foster prgrams. Cut neonatal care? Expect to see at least that in health care for children and adults. Cut funding to education? Expect to see at least that in various social services. Cut funding to family planning? Expect to see FOUR TIMES THAT COST in services.

It’s shortsighted.

Simply giving tax breaks to corporations doesn’t make them come to your state. If your workers can’t send their kids to decent schools, do they come? If the state with the attractive tax credits has a reputation for the crazy, do they come?

AZ is cutting 48,000 jobs from healthcare on the misguided optimism that they can get 30,000 jobs from tax breaks. But they’re also decimating the systems that would make corporations want to come here.

They’re also just embarassing us. Repeatedly.

Last year, the bulk of economists said that AZ policies were going to lead to a cliff. They chose to believe the FOUR who agreed with them.

ack

Gotta wonder, how long do you think it’ll be as we continue the apparently inexorable slide down into this neoDickensian world before we have gangs of homeless children begging on streetcorners?

We already do, but they’re prostituted kids instead of simply begging. And a lot of it happens in hotels and at events.

crowepps

As I understand your arguments in this thread, you assert the people who need help NOW have no right to expect the government or their fellow citizens to provide help, no right to health care, no right to feel ENTITLED to assistance from others at all but instead should take personal responsibility for themselves. In fact, apparently you assert that the government can unilaterally abandon legal agreements it made and force its employees to accept big cuts in salary while demanding the same work.

So let’s just set aside the fact that present day adult taxpaying citizens received free education as children, used free libraries and parks, were assisted by free police and aided by free paramedics and firemen and got free vaccinations at public health clinics and had lots of other government services provided on their behalf without noting that now that it’s time to REPAY all those benefits they are rejecting the debt and insisting “I got mine, the heck with you”.

Granting their claims are sincere that the basis of their beliefs is not greed or cheapness or racism but instead a philosophical insistence on how everybody ought to be personally responsible for themselves, it seems a little weird that exact same people who are insisting they collectively should have NO obligation to anyone else then turn around and insist that one group of people DOES still have an obligation to others — pregnant women.

If society has no obligation to provide health care to people who desperately need it, if society has no obligation to provide food to hungry children, there isn’t any justification I can see to insist pregnant women have to provide life support or nourishment to fetuses THEY don’t want. If society doesn’t owe her anything or her live children anything then she doesn’t owe the fetus anything. I guess I just don’t see that much difference between ‘sins’ of omission and commission. Aborting the fetus createsa lot less suffering than allowing live children to go hungry or remain sick in order to ‘motivate’ their parents to stop ‘making poor choices’.

crowepps

There was a stock market crash in 2008 that affected City investments, and since Anchorage had elected a conservative mayor he insisted he had a mandate to “shrink government”. He has cut the number of workers by over 15%, he is trying to get the unions to give up money that they negotiated, he insisted that the Assembly make big cuts in the budget because of the “fiscal emergency”, he collected less property taxes than possible

For two years running, Sullivan’s budgets have required the city to collect millions of dollars less in property taxes than the maximum allowed. Under the city’s tax cap, that in turn lowers the amount of the tax cap for the following year.

And now the Assembly has discovered there’s a $20 million account that the mayor has tucked away because he might need it if a lawsuit turns out badly and his reaction to their dismay at his secrecy? He’s campaigning for potential assembly members who will rubberstamp his decisions.

This is playing out all over the country — people believe that “cut taxes” means cut THEIR taxes and it’ll be a while before they figure out that they got a $50 break, the rich guy up on the hill got a $5,000 break, they lost $5,000 worth of services, and the rich guy didn’t lose a thing — if there’s only one snow plow operating, it will get to HIS street first, if there’s only one cop on duty, he will show up at HIS house first.

ack

Oh, I failed to mention that we fired staff at the Dept of Revenue who could have been collecting owed taxes. We saved about $25 million. We’re owed over $100 million.

Math is depressing, so we tend to ignore it in AZ.

crowepps

Isn’t shortsighted pretty much the whole POINT of the TeaParty movement?

I don’t think I’ve ever read of any other political movement that was so insistent that even though the exact same ideas they’re rerunning were a disaster the 10 times they were tried in the past, this time everything is going to turn out different.

Aside from the ProLife movement, of course.

crowepps

We’ll know we’re making progress when society finally groks the tight correlation between fathers seeing their daughters primarily as sexual units whose value is linked to their ‘purity’ and the huge demand that arises from that objectification whereby the fathers objectify and exploit similiar young girls through prostitution. I’ve always found it kind of sick that fathers would pay for sex with girls who could be their daughter’s classmates — incestuous and creepy.

colleen

If a state goes broke trying to assure that everyone has access to basic necessities, of which healthcare isn’t

‘basic necessity’ = that which is necessary to sustain life.

freetobe

maybe the problem is with the Corporations after all. They are taking over this country in fact the world. i can’t stand them never have liked them. Mom and Pop is so much better that is what this country needs more mom and pops.

Down with the Corporations especially MONSANTO the company of death.

They are just evil forces of destruction in diguise. They also 100% back the Regressive party of hatred ,bigotry,sexism and control.

You do know that money is ruling this world? So all this talk about christian values is a hoax.

freetobe

I know there are a lot of hateful men out there I was married to one for almost nine years but even as bad as he was he never said anything like this. I found this comment and there were several others on another site. it was in response to South Dakota’s bill to make it legal to kill an abortion doctor. I feel sick and I flagged the comment. This however is a dangerous man I think!

these women today (not all), think they can do whatever they want ” its my body”, shut the fuck up whore, you just wanted to fuck and now yoy dont want to dwal with it, go cry to the hills, stop fucking without birth control makes sense doesn’t it? and mabey they need to extend it to these stupid bitches who want women to be able to kill there children, there is something very wrong today in America and the rest of the world when a baby is looked at like a hunk of nothing, good god I want to choke the life out of these cunts, I hope there your reading this Abortion advocates because when you die it make ALOT of us smile……….

freetobe

from the same site and this guy says he is married with two children O M G i feel sorry for his kids: I also reported this one as did another person.

I hope this passes, I would love to kill an abortion doctor, I really would, blow his/her friggin head off, here’s a note ladies keep your damn legs closed, stop whoring around, and stop with the rape bullshit, 99.9% (I’ll give you the 1%) of abortions are because mary sue got pregnent and now doesn’t want the trouble of raising a child, well mary sue its called MURDER and you have NO right to do it, so think about it when you want to screw around, a child is the most awsome thing you can have I have 2 and to think of asking my wife KILL them is something that I cant even wrap my mind around, and to you bitches who cant live without the dick, get a life or mabey take your own because that baby inside you isnt a blob of nothing its a life and deserves a chance to live…..

rebellious-grrl

churchrat your posts get more and more ridiculous.

Jodi has asked you nicely to refrain from posting here. But you keep foaming at the mouth and ranting on.

forced-birth-rape

Did Tony Perkins of hatemongering on women, little girls, and female rape victims, Family Research Council buy his mailing list from David Duke?

I am from Louisiana where these creeps are from and I have heard this.

datasnake

What site is that from?

ack

We need a group of pro-choice hackers to find out who those people are and report them to the authorities. Those comments run afoul of several laws in most states.

ack

I hadn’t heard about this, so I googled it. (Hoooray, internet!) It appears there is definitely a link between the two people. Apparently, Perkins was working for a politician who did indeed purchase Duke’s mailing list (for nearly $100k) to make robo calls. When complaints started coming in that Duke’s name was on the caller ID, the politician told Perkins to launder the payments through another company rather than the campaign.

So… even if Perkins didn’t know that the mailing list came from Duke initially, it’s doubtful that he didn’t learn about it after the complaints and when the politican told him to launder the payments.

Thanks for pointing that out, FBIR. Dirty politics facinate me.

mechashiva

CA isn’t going broke because of illegal immigrants. They are actually a massively important part of our economy, as they do much of the agricultural work (for ridiculously cheap) that makes up most of our profits. The reason CA’s budget is in such a fix is because we were screwed over by energy companies (remember that whole energy crisis thing) back during the Bush administration years. Also, because fo the ballot initiative system, in which outside special-interest groups (generally big corporations, but often religious groups in neighboring states) spend huge amounts of money on campaigns to make casual voters vote for propositions that are actually bad for them (and the state on a whole). If we ditched the ballot initiative system and forced our government to do its own damn job, CA wouldn’t have as many problems. We’d be able to focus more on who our representatives are (and what their voting records are like) rather than on what propositions we want to pass or not pass (and who is funding the campaigns).

freetobe

which is connected to alternet. (Disqus)

I mean I have been reading comments (thousands) for several years and never have seen any this bad!. I did report them on that site. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks they are way over the top!

freetobe

what to do other than just flag them and ack that is what I was thinking. that they were illegal if not just dangerous. You never know what someone is thinking or doing to actually write down in public something that horrendous. To much violence going on in this world.

I have seen worse than that guy on private blogs, but for a mainstream site… yikes. Stupid and violent. “You’re an awful, irresponsible person, HAVE A BABY.” Because a live child used to punish an unwilling woman for having sex is better than an aborted embryo? There is no logic. For how much he claims to love his own children, he doesn’t like other people’s much.

katwa

There are only three necessities in life; food, water and shelter

What?! Please tell me this is a Poe. What good is food, water, and shelter going to do if your DEAD?!

I am alive today thanks to healthcare. Pnemonia kills babies with no treatment, I highly doubt I would have survived it without healthcare. Appendicitus kills children with no treatment, I doubt I would have survived that without healthcare. Toncilitus almost killed me even with healthcare, I doubt I would have survived it without.

Now explain to me why all children don’t have the right to life? (right to life is only for fetuses, eh?)

thejjmoody

Well actually, the US Supreme Court held that the right to bodily integrity was assumed a fundamental right (one of those like, life, liberty and that whole happiness thing) in Skinner v. Oklahoma, which overturned a state law that allowed for the sterilization of ‘habitual criminals’. Justice Douglas wrote – “There is no redemption for the individual whom the law touches. Any experiment which the State conducts is to his irreparable injury. He is forever deprived of a basic liberty.”

I’m sure you will argue that this doesn’t show where the right to life is presupposed by the right to bodily integrity, however it does does show that SCOTUS did consider the lack of a right to bodliy integrity to be one that would adversely impact on the fundamental liberties.

One quick point, if there is not a right to bodily integrity then it would seem that the whole arguement against allowing abortion springs a leak. If the right to bodily integrity is not a component of the right to life, then how can you say that the fetus has a right to life before the time they would be able to live outside the mother independently?