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Re: Please help save VB6

I notice today with interest that Microsoft has appointed a new CEO, Satya Nadella. Apparently he comes from the original NT development team and is a developer at heart. Perhaps the calls to maintain VB6 may be heard, or at least ANSWERED. Yes or No or Maybe ? Why is Microsoft quiet about this thread ? Do they care ? Does anyone of consequence give a **** ?

Now if there was SOMEONE out there willing to at least listen (without automatically going into IT CANT BE DONE mode) ......

Perhaps all that is needed (and I think someone has already suggested this) is to create an OPTIONAL Compiler for EXISTING VB6 Code which will allow the resultant EXE to run on .... What do you want ?
Windows8, WindowsRT, Android, iPhone, iPad ... you get the drift.
Dont try to re-invent the wheel - just give the good wheel some optional tires, and new roads to run on.
Seems simple to me, but then. I'm not a compiler programmer.
But for example, there is a project on PlanetSourceCode which is doing some of the above - recompiling VB6 code to run as a stand alone exe.
I dont believe that the people creating this compiler come from a company employing 1000's and 1000's of university accredited programmers.
(They would still be on the drawing board arguing about what colour the screens should be).

No, I would guess they are people out there WHO DO GIVE A **** and DO WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
How is it that a small group of people can change the world while the masses simply sit back and tell you why it cant be done ??

If Microsoft is not interested in helping keep VB6 alive, then perhaps this thread should be redirected to become a call to create an OpenSource project on a NEW VB6 Compiler development.
Now dont you think that might be interesting ?
Imagine .... Write your App in VB6 and run it on the Apple OS - this will definitely sell lots more iPads - perhaps Apple might throw in a few of their programmers to get the project started.
Me thinks if I was Apple, it would be a great investment to steal another percentage share of the already shaky Microsoft Windows Surface Tablet Computer market.
Perhaps Google may like the idea of running VB6 programs on their Android platform - that should bring in at least one extra compiler programmer.
I mean, these guys just may have one or two dollars to throw at a project like this, dont you think ? And all us VB6 programmers become their new sales people ! (for free!)

In the meantime, I have to go back to work now, writing code in VB6 to make a living - yes - it is possible in the 21st century to make a living writing VB6 code !

Re: Please help save VB6

In my opinion, time is better spent learning the current technologies that Microsoft supports rather than hoping Microsoft will bring back something they decided to kill nearly 20 years ago. To me, the bottom line is Microsoft is in business to make money and make their shareholders happy and to that end the plan most likely doesn't involve bringing back a new version of VB6.

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by Arjay

In my opinion, time is better spent learning the current technologies that Microsoft supports rather than hoping Microsoft will bring back something they decided to kill nearly 20 years ago. To me, the bottom line is Microsoft is in business to make money and make their shareholders happy and to that end the plan most likely doesn't involve bringing back a new version of VB6.

This is just your opinion ! We, the VB6 programmers, know the current technologies that Microsoft supports (so we must NOT learn them again), these current technologies that you speak of are for children, because of this there are no advanced source codes for their "NEW" technologies! We will see if MS will bring or not bring back a new VB6 !

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by George1111

I notice today with interest that Microsoft has appointed a new CEO, Satya Nadella. Apparently he comes from the original NT development team and is a developer at heart. Perhaps the calls to maintain VB6 may be heard, or at least ANSWERED. Yes or No or Maybe ? Why is Microsoft quiet about this thread ? Do they care ? Does anyone of consequence give a **** ?

We all ask that but MS thinks of the VB6 problem (I can assure you of that). Many VB6 programmers have made ​​phone calls to Microsoft representatives and continues to do so! Now Visual Basic 6.0 is the 5th place on the idea scale on Microsoft uservoice site:

Perhaps all that is needed (and I think someone has already suggested this) is to create an OPTIONAL Compiler for EXISTING VB6 Code which will allow the resultant EXE to run on .... What do you want ?
Windows8, WindowsRT, Android, iPhone, iPad ... you get the drift.
Dont try to re-invent the wheel - just give the good wheel some optional tires, and new roads to run on.
Seems simple to me, but then. I'm not a compiler programmer.
But for example, there is a project on PlanetSourceCode which is doing some of the above - recompiling VB6 code to run as a stand alone exe.
I dont believe that the people creating this compiler come from a company employing 1000's and 1000's of university accredited programmers.
(They would still be on the drawing board arguing about what colour the screens should be).
No, I would guess they are people out there WHO DO GIVE A **** and DO WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
How is it that a small group of people can change the world while the masses simply sit back and tell you why it cant be done ??

The "IT CANT BE DONE" individuals are NOT the masses, they are just 10 individuals who are paid to destroy the reputation of VB6 (but this is impossible to do).

Originally Posted by George1111

If Microsoft is not interested in helping keep VB6 alive, then perhaps this thread should be redirected to become a call to create an OpenSource project on a NEW VB6 Compiler development.

Now dont you think that might be interesting ?
Imagine .... Write your App in VB6 and run it on the Apple OS - this will definitely sell lots more iPads - perhaps Apple might throw in a few of their programmers to get the project started.
Me thinks if I was Apple, it would be a great investment to steal another percentage share of the already shaky Microsoft Windows Surface Tablet Computer market.
Perhaps Google may like the idea of running VB6 programs on their Android platform - that should bring in at least one extra compiler programmer.
I mean, these guys just may have one or two dollars to throw at a project like this, dont you think ? And all us VB6 programmers become their new sales people ! (for free!)

True ! And Google likes the idea of running VB6 programs on their Android platform, YES IT DOES! such a project has appeared in Google ! Is incredible, even Google is seeing how powerful Visual Basic 6.0 is !

Originally Posted by George1111

In the meantime, I have to go back to work now, writing code in VB6 to make a living - yes - it is possible in the 21st century to make a living writing VB6 code !

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by Ginerica

This is just your opinion ! We, the VB6 programmers, know the current technologies that Microsoft supports (so we must NOT learn them again), these current technologies that you speak of are for children, because of this there are no advanced source codes for their "NEW" technologies! We will see if MS will bring or not bring back a new VB6 !

You didn't address my point about MS wanting to make money and keep the share holders happy. If MS did invest in a new VB6 version, how do you see them recovering their investment? You say there are 150,000 VB6 programmers.. do you think that would be enough for MS to be profitable?

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by Arjay

You didn't address my point about MS wanting to make money and keep the share holders happy. If MS did invest in a new VB6 version, how do you see them recovering their investment? You say there are 150,000 VB6 programmers.. do you think that would be enough for MS to be profitable?

YES! (although I think there are far more than 150000) VB. NET and other programming languages ​​have much much less programmers than Visual Basic 6.0 has. 500$ X 150000 = 75000000$ (and they would make the new version of Visual Basic 6.0 for popularity also, not only for money, although popularity translates into money also)

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by Ginerica

YES! (although I think there are far more than 150000) VB. NET and other programming languages ​​have much much less programmers than Visual Basic 6.0 has. 500$ X 150000 = 75000000$ (and they would make the new version of Visual Basic 6.0 for popularity also, not only for money, although popularity translates into money also)

Unfortunately, this isn't at all realistic. In forming my reply I wanted to try to get an idea of sales of Visual Studio compared with VB6 (not really a valid comparison, but at least a starting point). I didn't have much success, but I did find the Visual Studio wiki page which has a nice timeline on the Visual Studio releases.

Included on the page is a chart that shows 10 releases of Visual Studio starting in April 1995 and ending with the VS 2013 release October 2013. Native VB was included in only the first 3 releases, the last of which was June 1998. There have been 7 releases since 1998 that do not have native VB.

Comparing the Visual Studio wiki page with the Visual Basic wiki page, I see that the last native version shipped in 1998 with VB6 (same as the VS wiki page) and that mainstream support for it ended in March, 2005 and extended support ended in March 2008. I also see that back then, the VB6 supporters weren't happy about it:

In response, the Visual Basic user community expressed its grave concern and lobbied users to sign a petition to keep the product alive.[13] Microsoft has so far refused to change their position on the matter.[14]

Footnote 13 (petition) indicates that 14627 folks have signed the petition since March, 2005. That's a far cry from 150,000 VB developers that you claim.
Footnote 14 indicates that MS supported the VB6 runtime on Windows 7, but didn't plan on including in future versions so it must be out for Windows 8?
Footnote 18 discusses the difficulties in migrating VB6 apps to .Net. Written in 2002, the post quotes Federico Zoufaly (in charge of developing the VB6 to .Net migration wizard):

Zoufaly will not tell you that migrating VB6 to VB.NET is in any way easy. It is not in his nature to lie. He is more of a developer turned executive rather than the other way around. He seems vaguely nonplussed by his newfound stature in the development world. Talking to him last week at VSLive!, he gave a very candid appraisal of the technology his company has created and the challenges which are inherent in migration—both the ones that his tool can solve and the ones that it can't.

A pragmatist, Zoufaly advises that VB developers first accept the following immutable truths:

you should not attempt migration until after your migration team has studied and learned the .NET environment
migration, particularly the first time you do it, is going to be very frustrating
migration is in no way a hands-off process
some applications simply cannot be migrated automatically
the only applications worth migrating are those which the company intends to significantly enhance with functionality that only .NET can provide

In other words, if you've imagined a process by which one loads some VB6 code into the wizard, does a few days' worth of debugging and testing, and emerges with a VB.NET application, you are living a fantasy. And the sooner you abandon that fantasy the better off you will be.

Zoufaly advises that developers should expect to spend a minimum of two to three weeks in training on the migration process and using the migration tool in practice before attempting an actual migration. And that is two to three weeks on top of the weeks and months that developers should spend learning VB.NET and the .NET framework.

"I'm not sure that [VB6 developers] realize how much more difficult it is," says Zoufaly. "But they should be able to get it. The best advice I can give is to learn VS.NET first."

After a developer is sufficiently comfortable with .NET and has spent several weeks in studying the migration process with the tool, Zoufaly says that a migration should progress at an average rate of just 7,000 to 10,000 lines of code per week. Therefore, a 1 million-line VB6 application will take 100 weeks—two years—to upgrade. Seems a little slow for something that Microsoft had the hubris to dub a migration "wizard."

We're talking about the difficulty to migrate existing code in VB6 back in 2002 and that it was recommended 12 years ago that folks "learn VS.Net first".

So if the history of VB, the continued history of VS without VB6, the end of VB6 support in 2008, recommendations to learn VS.Net 12 years ago, and the fact that only 14627 folks signed a 2008 petition doesn't convince you that VB6 isn't coming back, nothing will.

The VB6 folks are nothing if not persistent. Misguided maybe, but persistent to be sure.

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by Arjay

Unfortunately, this isn't at all realistic. In forming my reply I wanted to try to get an idea of sales of Visual Studio compared with VB6 (not really a valid comparison, but at least a starting point). I didn't have much success, but I did find the Visual Studio wiki page which has a nice timeline on the Visual Studio releases.

And the point is ?!

Originally Posted by Arjay

Included on the page is a chart that shows 10 releases of Visual Studio starting in April 1995 and ending with the VS 2013 release October 2013. Native VB was included in only the first 3 releases, the last of which was June 1998. There have been 7 releases since 1998 that do not have native VB.

Comparing the Visual Studio wiki page with the Visual Basic wiki page, I see that the last native version shipped in 1998 with VB6 (same as the VS wiki page) and that mainstream support for it ended in March, 2005 and extended support ended in March 2008. I also see that back then, the VB6 supporters weren't happy about it:

And the point is ?!
I know the history of Visual Studio man ! I do not understand why you telling me something I already know ... and many do !

Footnote 13 (petition) indicates that 14627 folks have signed the petition since March, 2005. That's a far cry from 150,000 VB developers that you claim.
Footnote 14 indicates that MS supported the VB6 runtime on Windows 7, but didn't plan on including in future versions so it must be out for Windows 8?
Footnote 18 discusses the difficulties in migrating VB6 apps to .Net. Written in 2002, the post quotes Federico Zoufaly (in charge of developing the VB6 to .Net migration wizard):

We're talking about the difficulty to migrate existing code in VB6 back in 2002 and that it was recommended 12 years ago that folks "learn VS.Net first".

Man! put down the pipe! "Footnote 18" should tell you much ! I am NOT "talking about the difficulty to migrate existing code in VB6". Are you coherent in programming as your text here is ?!
Visual Basic 6.0 is supported until 2020 ! Again, you do not know what you're talking about!

Originally Posted by Arjay

So if the history of VB, the continued history of VS without VB6, the end of VB6 support in 2008, recommendations to learn VS.Net 12 years ago, and the fact that only 14627 folks signed a 2008 petition doesn't convince you that VB6 isn't coming back, nothing will.

Do you understand what 14627 Visual Basic 6.0 programmers means ?! It is aaaaaaaaaaaaaa lot or programmers !!! We are not talking about the masses (the regular people), we are talking about real programmers !!! 14627 IS HUGE !

Originally Posted by Arjay

The VB6 folks are nothing if not persistent. Misguided maybe, but persistent to be sure.

Who are you to talk like that about a whole community?

Show your muscles with an advanced open source project, then you have the right to misguided statements like this !

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by dglienna

Sure. I was a Microsoft MVP in Visual Development (which meant VB6 BEFORE .Net) as it was coming out.

then how can you resist to a proposal for a new Visual Basic 6.0 ?! Dglienna, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4wh0IksOfg
If Microsoft will not come back with a NEW Visual Basic 6.0 (and very very soon !), then we will, Google will also. How do you respond to that ?! Do you want a Google Visual Basic 6.0, Microsoft wants that ?! Come on !

Re: Please help save VB6

Originally Posted by Ginerica

then how can you resist to a proposal for a new Visual Basic 6.0 ?! Dglienna, look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4wh0IksOfg
If Microsoft will not come back with a NEW Visual Basic 6.0 (and very very soon !), then we will, Google will also. How do you respond to that ?! Do you want a Google Visual Basic 6.0, Microsoft wants that ?! Come on !