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There was never a choice between protecting the yutes over Stemper. We had to leave two forwards exposed that met the minimum criteria. The only way to protect Stemper would of been to trade for a forward to expose that met the requirement.. Of course that would of left one of DiGi or Ginner off the protected list also because we wouldn't have enough slots to protect both.

So I think under the current roster the only was to protect Stemper was to expose somebody like Skinner or Lindy or etc. I don't think we wanted to do that.

Now if Vegas will make a side deal that is reasonable perhaps we keep Stemper or Nordy

For the record, it was rem who posted "So somehow we went with protecting both yutes: PDG/McGinn over Stempniak." I had previously pointed out that we had no choice but to expose both Stemp and Nordy. But if RF doesn't have a deal in place with Vegas, and had felt it was important to protect either Stemp or Nordy, he could have re-signed any of McGinn, PDG, Nesty, or McClement before the protection list was due. I guess that pretty much confirms our thoughts regarding the future of McClement and Nesty with the Canes, doesn't it?

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I think to a certain extent we're valuing points too much--or maybe it's more accurate to say we're relying a little too much on past performance as an indicator of future production.

At some point Stemp (or Versteeg, or whatever over-30 stopgap we're talking about) is going to get overtaken, production wise, by our youth. IMO we're closer to that point than we've been in a long, long time, with guys like Aho, Lindholm, Rask, and TT showing that they're figuring it out. PDG and McGinn may or may not, but yeah, you don't sacrifice that youth and potential to hang onto Stemp.

We absolutely need a top scorer/playmaker, but I don't think it's as straightforward as saying, "we're losing this many points if this guy is gone, so we have to find them and more from somebody we haven't yet acquired." As I've said before, this team managed to play as well last year without its supposed franchise player as it did with him. That is an easy-to-overlook fact that tells me the steps our top youngsters are taking are already producing on-ice synergy like we haven't seen before. Better goaltending will only enhance that, so getting the right guy (or two, if in fact Stemp heads to Tinsel Town) this off-season should go much further than merely replacing the lost points of a particular guy.

It's great to be this excited about this team again.

It's always difficult and very inexact trying to calculate where the points are going to come from. It doesn't matter as much where as if. There is a certain minimum number of goals you need to make it, but even then, if the goal is to make it comfortably, you need to be well above the minimum. We need to net more goals than last year.

Along those same lines, who knows if Stempniak will slow down before or if McGinn or PDG pick it up enough to crossover and pick up those points. But 40 points was good for the #138 forward. That is solid second line. That is #4-5 forward on the average NHL team. We don't know if PDG, McGinn, or Zykov will every score 40. But yes, older guys absolutely can fail to keep that up.

Really, we've been on both sides of this failing lately, which is part of why we've ended up in the bottom half of the league.

The post cup teams never really lived up to their veteran histories. Then Eric Staal dropped way off his proven pace, more and more every year for at least his last 3 years here. We've also seen our share of prospects that just never hit that scorer's level of production: Boychuk, Bowman, Dalpe, Murphy on the back end. On the flip side, a guy like Whitney defies all odds and keeps producing for a few years after we lose him when he's pushing 40.

Stempniak will be 34 most of the season. At 32, and 33 he put up 50 and 40 points. and looked pretty good doing it. On the other hand prior years he's not done that well.

I don't think losing him is a massive deal killer for this upcoming year, but I preferred having him and forcing PDG and McGinn to battle and earn their spot in the top 9. Both PDG and McGinn have looked at times like they could be 40 point, really good 3rd liners, but need to show it consistently. Hopefully they do. I guess we've got guys like Zykov we can try in there too.

Anyway, if we lose Stempniak, I do think Francis has the skills and certainly the cap space to find a veteran replacement for him. But I'd rather he do that that assume the Zykov or PDG or McGinn is going to step up and score 40 plus points. That's just me though. Maybe they saw enough to feel one of them could.

To me, this is less important than THE move. If we lose Stempniak, but get a guy with first line chops, I think we're still going to make it. I think we are getting more goals from TT, a couple more from Aho, and a lot more from Lindholm than last year. Probably more from the back end too. And one of the guys in the PDG/McGinn/Zykov, even Wallmark group could step it up too.

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It will be interesting to see if we make a deal with Vegas, but I'm thinking we don't unless they'll take a goalie. If they'd take Lack or Ward off our hands, I'd toss them a second rounder, but that just seems too low of a price to get them to do it, probably. But who knows?

But it seems that the real interesting stuff from our end will be when this expansion stuff is over, probably.

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It's always difficult and very inexact trying to calculate where the points are going to come from. It doesn't matter as much where as if. There is a certain minimum number of goals you need to make it, but even then, if the goal is to make it comfortably, you need to be well above the minimum. We need to net more goals than last year.

Along those same lines, who knows if Stempniak will slow down before or if McGinn or PDG pick it up enough to crossover and pick up those points. But 40 points was good for the #138 forward. That is solid second line. That is #4-5 forward on the average NHL team. We don't know if PDG, McGinn, or Zykov will every score 40. But yes, older guys absolutely can fail to keep that up.

Really, we've been on both sides of this failing lately, which is part of why we've ended up in the bottom half of the league.

The post cup teams never really lived up to their veteran histories. Then Eric Staal dropped way off his proven pace, more and more every year for at least his last 3 years here. We've also seen our share of prospects that just never hit that scorer's level of production: Boychuk, Bowman, Dalpe, Murphy on the back end. On the flip side, a guy like Whitney defies all odds and keeps producing for a few years after we lose him when he's pushing 40.

Stempniak will be 34 most of the season. At 32, and 33 he put up 50 and 40 points. and looked pretty good doing it. On the other hand prior years he's not done that well.

I don't think losing him is a massive deal killer for this upcoming year, but I preferred having him and forcing PDG and McGinn to battle and earn their spot in the top 9. Both PDG and McGinn have looked at times like they could be 40 point, really good 3rd liners, but need to show it consistently. Hopefully they do. I guess we've got guys like Zykov we can try in there too.

Anyway, if we lose Stempniak, I do think Francis has the skills and certainly the cap space to find a veteran replacement for him. But I'd rather he do that that assume the Zykov or PDG or McGinn is going to step up and score 40 plus points. That's just me though. Maybe they saw enough to feel one of them could.

To me, this is less important than THE move. If we lose Stempniak, but get a guy with first line chops, I think we're still going to make it. I think we are getting more goals from TT, a couple more from Aho, and a lot more from Lindholm than last year. Probably more from the back end too. And one of the guys in the PDG/McGinn/Zykov, even Wallmark group could step it up too.

If we do lose Stemp. We will need to replace his 40 points via trade or FA. So that means we need to sign 2 top 6 instead of one...

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Bingo, Minja. But what I've read suggests Vegas may want one of Minnesota's unprotected defensemen instead of Staal. I know that ship has sailed, but it is ironic. Besides, assuming last year represents what Eric can still do, Minnesota might get a lot of calls about him for $3.5 million a year. But I don't think one of those calls will be from Ron Francis.

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Well, everyone will lose someone. RF may already know who Vegas wants. NO ONE is projecting that they take Lack or Ward. With Nordstrom, you could argue that he is younger, cheaper, and could grow with the franchise. May be still be around when and if they become competitive. Stempniak, if he does not fall off in production, would probably get flipped at the deadline for a draft pick.

Wonder how many teams will actually trade a first rounder to protect players now? Rumor is Islanders and someone else are already committed. If there are more teams willing to part with firsts, would Vegas be wise to start asking for 2018 first round picks? How great would it be to have 3 first rounders 2 years in a row? With what they are likely to end up with, they are all but guaranteed to get the 4th pick or better next year. If they could add a couple more firsts to that, they could be 3-4 years out from having a young core that could carry them a long time. Or, they could screw it up like Edmonton.

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One interesting speculation I read is that Vegas corners the goaltender market by taking Fleury, Grubauer, Mrazek, and Raanta. They keep two and flip the other two for perhaps inflated returns. That might not be a bad strategy at all, but it wouldn't seem to bode well for Lack ending up in Vegas.

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One interesting speculation I read is that Vegas corners the goaltender market by taking Fleury, Grubauer, Mrazek, and Raanta. They keep two and flip the other two for perhaps inflated returns. That might not be a bad strategy at all, but it wouldn't seem to bode well for Lack ending up in Vegas.

This and hording as many good defenders as they can to allow them to make some good trades.

Dallas move the #3 for Dumba, Demers, or Jack Johnson?

Would Philadelphia be willing to swap Raanta and 6th for the 2nd? They could get the franchise face they are looking for.

D and goalies would have some serious currency this year. 4 teams are looking for a starting goalie and 6 or so teams are looking for a D upgrade to be serious playoff teams. LV could get some good young offensive players to fill the AHL team.

If they get too greedy with their pick hoarding, then all of that is out the window.

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One interesting speculation I read is that Vegas corners the goaltender market by taking Fleury, Grubauer, Mrazek, and Raanta. They keep two and flip the other two for perhaps inflated returns. That might not be a bad strategy at all, but it wouldn't seem to bode well for Lack ending up in Vegas.

Too many better goalies available for Lack or Ward to be the LV selection. The asset that RF would have to give up to make Lack the player taken would have to be larger than the asset LV could get in a trade for one of the better goalies. Making that move is a JR as GM deal. The Vegas GM will be working the phone to line up trades for 2 of those 4 goalies you listed. Arizona surely needs one now.

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To me, this is less important than THE move. If we lose Stempniak, but get a guy with first line chops, I think we're still going to make it.

This is my point, sorta. If the synergy among our current top six produces just five more points each and we pick up another Stemp/Steeg-type FA, plus that bonafide top-three guy, we're suddenly well beyond last year's production. Add in the better goaltending and what should become more back-end contributions too, and it's hard not to be optimistic.

In just three years, Ronnie has masterfully created depth and real options in an org that had neither when he got the reins.

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I agree and hope you are right but makes me wonder if that's why we have not picked a captain yet. Will they bring him back and give him the big "C"? - PLEASE NO!!!!!

Never gonna happen. Ronnie's done with the Staal family. In fact, I'm wondering if he wouldn't work a deal sending Jordan (If he'll waive) Lack and one of our D prospects to CO for Soderberg, Duchene and Skog. They need cap space and Jordan would be a good interim Captain if they're not ready to give it to MacKinnon just yet.

Don't get me wrong, Jordan brings a D presence in the middle we need, and he is very good everywhere on the ice (except the offensive slot, where his hands of stone are... ugh). But I think Rask can be all Jordan is and Duche is a pure scorer. A top line of Duche, Skog and Skinner makes me salivate.

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Never gonna happen. Ronnie's done with the Staal family. In fact, I'm wondering if he wouldn't work a deal sending Jordan (If he'll waive) Lack and one of our D prospects to CO for Soderberg, Duchene and Skog. They need cap space and Jordan would be a good interim Captain if they're not ready to give it to MacKinnon just yet.

Don't get me wrong, Jordan brings a D presence in the middle we need, and he is very good everywhere on the ice (except the offensive slot, where his hands of stone are... ugh). But I think Rask can be all Jordan is and Duche is a pure scorer. A top line of Duche, Skog and Skinner makes me salivate.

100% agree, this would be the perfect hockey trade!!!!!! I too am tired of the Staal family

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Never gonna happen. Ronnie's done with the Staal family. In fact, I'm wondering if he wouldn't work a deal sending Jordan (If he'll waive) Lack and one of our D prospects to CO for Soderberg, Duchene and Skog. They need cap space and Jordan would be a good interim Captain if they're not ready to give it to MacKinnon just yet.

Don't get me wrong, Jordan brings a D presence in the middle we need, and he is very good everywhere on the ice (except the offensive slot, where his hands of stone are... ugh). But I think Rask can be all Jordan is and Duche is a pure scorer. A top line of Duche, Skog and Skinner makes me salivate.

You think they would move 3 roster players for a good 2 way guy, a underperforming G, and a D propect? We couldn't get two of them for that. Based on their asking price we would have to be in the ballpark of:

Staal

Lack

Fluery

Roy

Nordstrom/McGinn

staal for Skog swap

McGinn & lack for Soderberg

Fluery & Roy for Duchene

Skinner-Duchene-Stempniak

Skog-Rask-Lindstrom

TT-Soderberg-Aho

the thought of the Skins, Aho, & Duchene on the same line is exciting and scary at the same time, so I split them up.

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Never gonna happen. Ronnie's done with the Staal family. In fact, I'm wondering if he wouldn't work a deal sending Jordan (If he'll waive) Lack and one of our D prospects to CO for Soderberg, Duchene and Skog. They need cap space and Jordan would be a good interim Captain if they're not ready to give it to MacKinnon just yet.

Don't get me wrong, Jordan brings a D presence in the middle we need, and he is very good everywhere on the ice (except the offensive slot, where his hands of stone are... ugh). But I think Rask can be all Jordan is and Duche is a pure scorer. A top line of Duche, Skog and Skinner makes me salivate.

I'm all on board for this trade...someone call up Franchise and tell him to make it happen!

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You think they would move 3 roster players for a good 2 way guy, a underperforming G, and a D propect? We couldn't get two of them for that. Based on their asking price we would have to be in the ballpark of:

Staal

Lack

Fluery

Roy

Nordstrom/McGinn

staal for Skog swap

McGinn & lack for Soderberg

Fluery & Roy for Duchene

Skinner-Duchene-Stempniak

Skog-Rask-Lindstrom

TT-Soderberg-Aho

the thought of the Skins, Aho, & Duchene on the same line is exciting and scary at the same time, so I split them up.

13 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

I'm all on board for this trade...someone call up Franchise and tell him to make it happen!

Pump the brakes boys...Staal has a NMC, no way he allows a trade to Colorado.

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I'd take one of their guys for the right deal but I think its a huge risk to take on anymore then that. I'd hate to see their locker room woes spread like a disease into the Canes locker room. I think changing 1 bad attitude is doable in a good environment but I worry 3 could flip the Canes locker room.