Well, I am very seriously consideringredoing the beginning of All Roses. The overall plan will be to make completely new art for the first 5 chapters, rearrange and edit events therein, and perhaps do a little retouching of dialogue and art (but not a major overhaul) of some chapters after that.

The redo process, and all my comic processes really go in these steps, if you're interested:1. Scripting or idea building- Sometimes I write out complete dialogue, sometimes I just have an idea with some dialogue in my head2. Thumbnailing- sketched out almost illegibly a quarter size, thumbnailed pages show me my layouts, characters, and where text will go. These first two steps are my "planning" stages.3. Panel printing-I do my panels in photoshop and print them out. The fastest of all steps.4. Baselines- I also call this my bubble stage. People are mostly shapes, there are a few expressions, and I write in where my text will be.5. Details- I go back through all the pages and draw in details, hair, faces, clothes, touchups, whatever.6. Inking.7. Scanning.8. Finishing- shading, backgrounds, typing the text in. All that good stuff.

Currently I am focusing on the first four chapters. The beginning is by far and away the weakest part of all of the story. The writing is pretty terrible, as are most of the backgrounds and almost all of the art and coloring. To deny this would be ridiculous. Thus, this redo.

What this means for you? For most of you nothing. I would like for this to not interrupt current ARHT updates in any way. There will be no update schedule for redone pages. When the redoing actually happens, I will post completed pages on DA, and when I finish the first four chapters I will replace the current pages on comicgen with them. I will probably keep the old ones in an extra gallery if anyone wants to look at the terrible old stuff vs. the newer stuff.

If you would like to be of help, look over the first four and let me know what you think is retarded, or could have been addressed better, or have smoother dialogue, or whatever. I do have the bare bones of most of the redone stuff laid out, but I may be too close to it to see everything. Be as harsh as you wish as long as you are constructive. I would like to improve the beginning.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

That will be nice. My first thought was "Well, every once in a while you can't update, how do you expect to be able to do both at the same time?" So that is good of you to put in there.

I don't actually have anything to contribute, I just thought you might like to know that someone thinks it's a good idea, I guess? xD I mean, it was good enough to make me want to read. Come to think of it, I had a hard time reading through the Colly destroying Faylin's family. But, that's how it should be. I just figured it'd stop being so cruel, and it did xD

I've been reading since Part 6, if not just before, and I can definitely understand why you'd want to redo the first parts. However, I'm very reluctant to state that it might be a good idea.

In regards to the story and how it is told, some of the stuff in the beginning seems to be very somewhat... how do I phrase this... either self indulgent or self serving. But, at the same time, the comic actually deals with the consequences of Colly's actions, and there is no magical moment where everything is suddenly made better of forgiven. Plus with the new light of Colly's emotional state / personality being influenced by those around him, that does better justify it.

As far as the art is concerned, yes, there has been a huge improvement in the quality of art. At the same time, how long has the comic been running? I say be proud of your origins, and if anything, if you do redo/remake the intro, keep the originals as the default, and the newer ones as the alternate.

Also, goes without saying, congrats to you in that ARHT has been around long enough to even warrant such a discussion. It was great seeing you at CT-Con a few years ago, and I hope to meet you there again soon.

Thank you for your input, shinji. ARHT has been going on for a few months over six years. Are you a boy, or a girl? Maybe I remember you from CT-con.

And you are absolutely right about the self-indulgent/serving thing. My goal, however, is to keep much of the feel of it the same, most of the major actions are still there, it will just be told more eloquently, with fewer chibis, and with fewer arrows pointing to things that should be clear but aren't so I feel the need to put those arrows in the first place.

I don't want to take out anyone's actions, or alter their personality drastically, but I can see so many avenues of improvement.

And I'm pretty set on the redo. If for no more reason than I hate the beginning. And my feelings on the comic in its current form get tainted with the knowledge of that terrible beginning that I could make better.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

Yeah I met up with you at CT-Con, the one after they had their mini-financial disaster. And I'm prolly one of the few male readers you have... <_<

"I don't want to take out anyone's actions, or alter their personality drastically..." That's what I wanted to hear. As long as the events stay as they are, and it's more of an art / how they're presented redo, then I'm 100% for it. In regards to the chibis, sometimes they're perfectly fine to keep. But given the consistant storytelling style you've had for the past 2-3 years they feel out of place. If you were still within the first first arc of the comics lifetime, they'd be acceptable, in my opinion. But yeah, no artist should need arrows or extra-footnotes. But hey, you were just starting out, and we all start somewhere right?

If you want specific feedback or thoughts on specific sections or aspects, let me know. It'd be an honor.

Were you there with another guy? I remember two guys who had come by after the auction, who said they wanted to bid, but they didn't bring enough money. One of whom was talkative, and the other of whom was more quiet and shook my hand in a serious/solemn kind of way. Oh, and at least one of them bought a picture. Colly and Faylin. They paid me $5 even though it was only $3. If you weren't one of those, then I don't think I remember. = \

As for feedback . . . well, right now I have a pretty solid (I hope) redo of ch. 1-4 scripted. And I have sent it to Marty for her editorial eye. After I hear what she says (or maybe before if she takes too long = P), if I have any doubts or would like someone else to look through it, maybe I'll send it your way.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

I wanted to give a status update on the redo! I am fairly certain that the script for ch. 1-4 is pretty well done. I'm waiting for a reply from a friend before I say so for certain. When I come back from India, I will plan out/thumbnail the next contemporary chapter, and may also start the thumbnailing the redo. I will also update my OP to have a status line.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

It turns out there were some recommended changes from the last person who looked over the script. I took some of what she said and edited it in there. But then there were a couple parts that I was not all that happy with. But I just finished editing them now, and have become much happier. So NOW, the next step is thumbnailing, sometime in the (hopefully near) future.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

I've been working on the thumbnails for Ch. 1 for a couple weeks now, and I just finished them today. Even though it's in tiny sketchy form, I'm really quite happy with it! And although there's an extra scene at the beginning of the chapter, I still came out to the same 20 pages as last time. That was a pleasant surprise!

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

I finished planning out Ch. 2! With the exception of a cover page and (potential) title change.

And Started drawing Ch. 1 full size. Ooooh YEAH.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

And in a veritable flurry of activity, I have thumbnailed out ch. 3 as well! Oh progress!

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

lol I made an account just to offer some input on this matter. ^w^ Long time lurker, here. First started reading since the "kilt" pages. (dunno if that makes sense)

Thing one: If there's anything I can say about the first few chapters, it's this: Faylin is a super weenie. I mean, c'mon! If he raised a family of 4 kids and took care of his kid brother, he's gotta have a stronger personality from the get go. It's like he's a blank slate, in the beginning,.... his personality doesn't even form until he starts breaking away from Colly. Maybe try and make him more,.... I dunno,.... stoic and in shock after his family is taken from him. He can still be manipulated and pushed around if he's in anguish about his family, instead of just being a scared wuss. He can be more like, "My family is gone. I don't care what happens to me, anymore. They can do what they want with my body. Whatever." I think that will make him a stronger leading character in the beginning to reflect how much stronger he becomes later.

Thing two: The dancing bit. I kinda cringed when he actually went up to Colly and asked "Are there any more dances?" Only two months had passed between his family getting killed and that phase. I don't think that's enough time to warrent him wanting to learn anything from Collimair. You can make the time gap a bit bigger, I think. They're vampires. A year is like a day for them. Perhaps 2 years? You can do a big montage page, if it makes it easier. (Faylin riding a horse, getting fitted for clothes, learning to read/write, colly stalking him in the bushes) The relationship between the two isn't strained enough at that point.

Thing three: This has nothing t do with anything but,.... you know those two extra daughters that Eanwulf took away from Salora and her Jocet? What if,.... they're not really dead? Just a thought. It was never showed that they were actually killed by him. It would be such a trip if Eanwulf had turned one or both of them. Maybe he would whip them out in front of Faylin just to mess with him or get what he wanted? It would be so dramatic. Probably would destroy whatever relationship Colly and Faylin have, at this point. Just a plot twist suggestion. ^ ^ I'm sure you already have all this written up and know the ending already, but I'd thought it would be fun to throw a wrench in the gears. lol

Sorry for going on so long. ^ ^;; Anyway, thanks for updating so much and keeping me interested! I look forward to see how far in time this story goes!

Edit: I just re-read the first few chapters. Nice re-wording. I like it! It seems more true to their characters in these recent pages. One thing I always thought was cool/sick: Collamair shoving his fingers into one of the girl's ears to stop her from doing anything but screaming. That cracking noise,... eardrums? ^ ^ It's awesome how much the art style has changed up. There hasn't been a chibi in ages. lol

Last edited by RapeSoda on Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

One more thing,.... when it comes to Collimair, he can feel it if his vampires are in pain, right? If they're close by? This probably has already been addressed, but how come when Bhruic and Struan were toruring Faylin, Colly couldn't feel it? They were in the same castle, so it was pretty close by, yeah? Auron got hurt too, so he would've definately felt something. Maybe instead of,... what's his name? Galvan? Instead of Galvan alerting Colly, maybe he could just rush to where Faylin is, on that basis? Sorry for poking holes in the story,... you asked to be harsh. ^ ^;;

Actually, in the rewrite, it is my goal to make Faylin more bitter, because he was just a little too kicked puppy-esque.

RapeSoda wrote:Thing two:

I will be rewriting the dancing chapter, HOWEVER, I need to get the first four done before that. The story has a tendency to change from planning to thumbnailing to drawing to finishing so I'm not sure what's going to happen with that one exactly, but it will be . . . uh . . better, I'm pretty sure, in the end.

RapeSoda wrote:Thing three:

We haven't heard what happened to those two, you're right. But I promise, at some point, you will definitively know what happened to them.

RapeSoda wrote:I look forward to see how far in time this story goes!

A very long time. If I don't quit before then. >.<

RapeSoda wrote:Edit: I just re-read the first few chapters. Nice re-wording. I like it! It seems more true to their characters in these recent pages. One thing I always thought was cool/sick: Collamair shoving his fingers into one of the girl's ears to stop her from doing anything but screaming. That cracking noise,... eardrums? ^ ^ It's awesome how much the art style has changed up. There hasn't been a chibi in ages. lol

Rewording . . .? I haven't actually changed any of the early chapters yet..... and . . . uh . . . the eardrum thing will be taken out.

RapeSoda wrote:One more thing,.... when it comes to Collimair, he can feel it if his vampires are in pain, right? If they're close by? This probably has already been addressed, but how come when Bhruic and Struan were toruring Faylin, Colly couldn't feel it? They were in the same castle, so it was pretty close by, yeah? Auron got hurt too, so he would've definately felt something. Maybe instead of,... what's his name? Galvan? Instead of Galvan alerting Colly, maybe he could just rush to where Faylin is, on that basis? Sorry for poking holes in the story,... you asked to be harsh. ^ ^;;

[/quote]

This wasn't ever addressed in the story, and I'll be honest, when I wrote this, it was actually a plot hole I did not even see. But someone speculated in the forums that maybe it had something to do with him being with the twins. And that is a lovely answer which I will appropriate! Indeed, the twins power . . . overloaded his senses if you will, kind of blocked off all other signals that might reach him. Yep, that was totally canon the WHOLE time. O_O

If you have any other concerns, don't hesitate to share.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

Allroses wrote:If you have any other concerns, don't hesitate to share.

YOU WILL REGRET THAT DOHOHOHO /shot

Then I'll ask about this other thing that was bugging me. Colly wiped Salora and Jocet's memory of Faylin's daughters, yeah? Then why not wipe Faylin's memory of everything horrible Collamair ever did to him? Wouldn't that make it easier for Colly to get close to Faylin? Perhaps the fact that Faylin still has some of his soul can counteract such a thing? If anything, Colly could order Jocet and Salora not to say anything about that event. He's thier master after all.

Allroses wrote:If you have any other concerns, don't hesitate to share.

YOU WILL REGRET THAT DOHOHOHO /shot

Then I'll ask about this other thing that was bugging me. Colly wiped Salora and Jocet's memory of Faylin's daughters, yeah? Then why not wipe Faylin's memory of everything horrible Collamair ever did to him? Wouldn't that make it easier for Colly to get close to Faylin? Perhaps the fact that Faylin still has some of his soul can counteract such a thing? If anything, Colly could order Jocet and Salora not to say anything about that event. He's thier master after all.

Well, having a master he didn't really care about, Collamair knows that it could be easy for a vampire to align him/herself closer to a sibling vampire than a master. And he doesn't really like those two all that much, so he doesn't really trust them, or trust that they will obey him (though they've never done anything to make him feel like that). As for Faylin, that might be the ideal thing to do IF he hadn't already messed around in Faylin's mind a whole bunch. He segregated a whole portion of his emotions, remember, and tooling around inside anyone's brain, vampire or human, is dangerous for the recipient. You can easily displace or break things that are needed for stable, higher functioning. Doing anything beyond what he's already done would be incredibly risky. And doing it too close to the initial anger sealing event would have made it even worse, before his mind has a chance to settle into its new routine. After it had settled, though, the negativity that Faylin felt for Collamair probably would not have been erased, just his reasonings for it. So between the apparent uselessness and dangerousness, Faylin gets to keep his memories.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

This weekend at CT-con I finished thumbnailing ch. 4, which means that for the first stint of comic makeover, all the planning is finished and I can now focus on getting it drawn and inked and colored. Man, this seems like a long ways away still.

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.

In putting in the baselines for Ch. 1, I unintentionally created a set-up for an excellent scene that go at the beginning of Ch. 5. So now I've started writing ch. 5, and it's looking really good, thanks in part to NEW SCENE. I had to talk it out with Cait last night, as she's usually the final say on character actions if I ever have a question. Even though she makes little sense with other things ( ), for some reason her character reasonings are spot on.

So 5 writing has begun, the panels for ch. 2 are printed, and the drawing for ch. 1 is started. Good times. = D

Val'Cielle - A post-apocalyptic winter, a dragon goddess, and people who aren't happy about either.All Rose Have Thorns (NSFW) - A story about angsty, pansexual vampires, and the ghosts, faeries, and people that surround them.