Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry

The radical truth about Josefin von Zeipel Segerberg

Truth is regarded as a terrible word in this age of deconstruction. ~ Katherine Young, while fielding questions at the Conference on Male Studies.

Imagine this scene: The government and media are working in concert to produce propaganda that legitimizes hatred and violence perpetrated by one half of the population on the other. They use the theories and philosophies of an individual that attempted to murder two people based on their sex, and develop material that is shaped and molded to influence the minds of young people, then they disseminate it through high schools.

Now imagine this: Anyone who objects to it is branded a “radical.”

If this sounds like the story line for some dystopian novel; something that would even elicit shudders and chills from Franz Kafka, think again. This is actually a modern non-fiction; a news report being played out in Sweden, a country that has become the most prolific purveyor of class hatred since post Weimer Germany.

For those that have not seen it, here is a self-explanatory example of Swedish wares. And another tidbit that has emerged since this video was highlighted on this website is brought to us courtesy of the shooter in the video, Josefin von Zeipel Segerberg, who reportedly attends school at the University of Gothenberg, Gothenberg, Sweden. She has also been identified as the director of the SCUM Theater in Sweden.

Josefin von Zeipel Segerberg

Segerberg is also involved in a performance in celebration of “Straight Hate Day,” an attack on heterosexuality in Swedish culture. The writer who reported this story on Straight Hate Day claims they don’t really hate straight people, just the heterosexual norm. I would ask how far a leap it is between hating heterosexuality and heterosexuals, but that question would be interpreted by Swedish newspaper ETC. as a threat and a hate crime, which brings us to the real point.

After my recent interview with ETC Editor Eigil Söderin, it came as no surprise that she gutted the conversation and reduced it to what she felt she could use to demonize me and the men’s movement, painting us as violence advocating misogynists bent on causing harm to women. That is pär for the Scandinavian course these days. To be fair, much higher profile media sources have tried than ETC, which is a significant website in Sweden, but actually gets less traffic than AVfM.

Still, the larger question remains.

What, in the current political zeitgeist and climate of sexual hatred against men and boys, is the appropriate stance to take? Well, Pelle Billing, a known MRA from Sweden, has made his feelings known in his interview with ETC. He said, and I am paraphrasing through the Google translator here, that “We were in contact when Paul Elam was Editor of Men’s News Daily, when I experienced him as a pretty calm person. Since then he has radicalized.”

And if that is what Pelle said, then he is half-correct. I still consider myself level headed. But yes, I have radicalized. And so will you Pelle, if you actually want to get anything done.

That is not a personal indictment of Pelle Billing. He’s done a great deal of work on men’s issues. But unless his quote was taken out of context, he is dead wrong on this. Did I really hear Pelle telling a newspaper that is supporting murder-based-on-sex advocates of the SCUM Manifesto- which they are treating like a mainstream political movement – that he is concerned that Paul Elam has radicalized?

WTF, Pelle? Say it ain’t so!

Now, of course, the quote from Pelle was just the sort of fissure creating fodder that Söderin was looking for. Her attempt here is to divide MRA’s and hopefully weaken us; stall our growth. That tactic reveals a great deal of ignorance of the MRM as a phenomena, though, and a failure to understand that if anything, they have only served to make us collectively stronger. In the end, I am not going anywhere, and they are now more likely than ever to have to deal with Pelle, who remains a valuable asset despite the gaffe.

Also, before anyone becomes upset with Dr. Billing, please consider that there is a lot that could be lost in the translation here, as well as the distinct possibility that ETC is just outright lying about what he said. I have no ill feelings at all.

One of the lessons here in my mind is that words like extreme and radical are really just so much semantic quicksand. From the calls to destroy the nuclear family, to the promulgation of countless lies, to the SCUM Manifesto and that horrific video, to the celebration of hating heterosexuals – it is hard to imagine things already being less radicalized.

I search my conscious for the willingness to emulate any of this toward any group of people, including feminists, and I find nothing that will allow it. I have no capacity to stage a mock murder and orgiastic dance of celebration or licking the blood off of a victim’s wounds. I have no ability to embrace a hatred of any sexual preference and actually plan its traditional celebration. Hell, I don’t even have the brazenness to make up statistics or revise history in order to achieve political goals. And I am the radical?

What I do have is the willingness to “out” hate mongers and put a light on them in front of as many people as I can. It is one of the very few weapons I have in a misandric zeitgeist dominated by government, media and social complicity. And it is one I use not with a wish for harm, but with sadness. Misandry is an evil. It must be confronted and its purveyors must not be allowed to wrap themselves in the comfortable shroud of impunity.

And let us be clear here. While ideologues and news reporters, already demonstrably deficient in integrity, will paint this as incitement to violence, I will instead remain focused on the truth. This is a reaction to the ideological and real violence that feminism has fostered for fifty years and which now has taken a governmental seat in the country of Sweden.

I not only have a right to present what is already public information, I have a moral obligation to identify the agents of hate wherever and whoever they are. I intend to fulfill that obligation regardless of objection or dissent. If you don’t want to be identified as a bigot and a social criminal, then quit advocating murder and hatred.

About Paul Elam

Paul Elam is the founder and publisher of A Voice for Men, the founder of A Voice for Men Radio, the AVfM YouTube Channel, and appears weekly on AVFM Intelligence Report, Going Mental with Dr. Tara Palmatier and weekly on MANstream Media with Warren Farrell and Tom Golden.

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There are a few errors on the RH page. “men are biologically inferior to men,” in her belief.

Now the video is listed as private via YT. Did someone grab it? They are using the private setting to hide the hate. Tried using Google under its title, “SCUM having fun,” and came up with more than a few pro-genocide sites (i.e. lesbianmafia (calling it a hoot, BTW,) et al.–that is all I can call them for wanting to kill half the world’s population,) that have links to it, but the private setting hides it.

This not only needs to go viral to show the hate, but also taken apart as hatemongering that it is. Putting cards between key points would be the best option of modifying it.

Blow this hidden hate wide open.

.ProleScum.

Dannyboy got it saved.

I remember another poster saying they’d got it and made multiple copies too.

http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

They’ve apparently changed their Youtube setting from “public” to “private.” I think you have to be a subscriber to their channel, or something like that, to see their privately listed videos.

Many hate organizations have historically become very secretive in their affairs to hide their vile prejudice, hate, and bigotry from the light of decent folks.

Misandry was not invented by Marxists; they merely codified and exploited the long-known pathology.

http://manamongoaks.com/index.html Ray

Here’s are a couple of controversial videos (according to feminists) from Super FRA “FaceUpToFred” of F4JLA and NCFMLA. The first one is a classic, IMO. The second one, some may say is hyperbole, but not really. It’s just more accurate than most of society’s sheep, and feminist stooges, care to admit, IMO. Even if some of what’s said is anecdotal, it’s certainly true from first hand experience.

“Josefin von Zeipel Segerberg, who reportedly attends school at the University of Gothenberg, Gothenberg, Sweden.”

The name “von” is also frequently used in names of people from Holland, or Germany, and the “V” is most often capitalized. I was told that the word “Von” is an indicator of a higher status in society, or something like that. Is that lower case “v” a class consciousness thing, or a typo in the spelling? Does “SCUM theater in Sweden” have affiliates in other countries?

Introspectre

I’m part Dutch and from my understanding, a name with non-capitalized van der for example, means “from the town of”, in the old ways of speaking. I have this term in my last name and was told once, that it delineates an origin of nobility, though I can’t verify that.

Dannyboy

Never mind the scum video is back have a look at this

“……Therefore, Anonymous has decided to destroy SCUM Sweden. We shall
proceed to dismantle every form of its organization from the
Internet. Nothing will stop us.
We will not hesitate to show your real identity.
We will show no mercy.
We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.
Expect us. …..”

Now this is an interesting turn of events

Kimski

Amazing that you should throw in this, Dannyboy. I’ve been following these guys for a while now, and they would be the perfect partners in the destruction of SCUM and radical feminism, where ever it shows it’s ugly face.-You know,-everywhere at the moment.

They appear to fighting oppression in any form, be it political or otherwise. They have no leaderships, no public face, or anything else that could identify them to the opposition.

If they’ve decided to take on SCUM on one frontline, maybe we should consider hitting them as hard as we can on another, and once and for all get rid of that damned hate-manifest, on a global scale. Mankind as a whole will be far better off without it.

Dannyboy

Kimski,
I have followed Anonymous as well.
I should also say kudos to TheKarlslok @ youtube for re-upping the original video and to ProleScum for finding it. They both deserve a pat on the back and my “nevermind” opening statement wasn’t meant to belittle the find.
I was just absolutely gob-stopped to find this on a youtube search.
I am still just amazed.

Kimski

Me too.
This is truly terrific! The fed’s consider this organisation dangerous enough to spend millions on trying to find out who they are. They will not succeed. Anonymous are anonymous, and are gathering a huge following day by day by ordinary people who have just had enough.

The times they are a-changing, and it’s about goddamn’ time if we’re supposed to go on calling ourselves an intelligent specie. If the malfunctions in the systems can’t be changed through peoples votes, in what is supposedly democracies, those systems must be destroyed from within by the people.

I would really like somebody to do a piece on Anonymous. I think we’re going to see a lot more from these guys in the future.

scatmaster

Is this for real?
If so the game has just been ratcheted up another notch.
Be afraid SCUM.

Kimski

Oh, yeah, you better believe it, Scatmaster!
-If you haven’t heard or read about these guys, I strongly suggest you do a google-search and/or look for their vid’s on Youtube. These guys are global and the organisation is becoming HUGE and are growing by the hour!!

Looks like somebody learned an important lesson from watching ‘V for Vendetta’ and took it a lot more serious, than the people in charge would have liked.
-And if you don’t mind my saying so, the script in the movie and the world as presented by the media bears a striking resemblance.

scatmaster

Hi Kimski, I know a little about Anonymous my question was made in an incredulous tone. This rocks.

Kimski

Okay.
That doesn’t surprise me, BTW.
And, yes, earthquake style.

scatmaster

Rock and Roll Kimski Rock and Roll
<:o)

Dannyboy

Scatmaster,
From one Canuck to another I would take it as heart-attack serious.
These are the same people who caused visa and or mastercard a hell of a lot of trouble.
They also threw a monkey wrench into some baptist anti-gay ministry as well.
And yes I would say that this does in fact ratchet up the pressure on the “scum” followers and makers to run and hide or recant their hateful ways.

http://truthjusticeca.wordpress.com/ Denis

Yeah, interesting how 4chan (anonymous) is monitoring this development and us:

Things just got a bit more interesting. I suspect if any one or any group would be able out anyone, it would be Anonymous.

I just hope that they are able to filter the information to the public so we can get these people on RH. I haven’t been in to them long enough to see the damage Anonymous does to its targets.

I do hope they are a bit more equalitist in nature. Sounds like from this video that they are.

.ProleScum.

Yes Usi,

They sound like they’re coming from an equity feminism position, rather than gender feminism.

Followed to the letter and in spirit, my own views are entirely concordant with equity feminism, as I assume is the case for most of us. It’s just that we haven’t seen that brand of feminism for decades but instead gender feminism and its endless victim-mongering.

http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

Sweet mother of Jesus, the cavalry has arrived.

The truth WILL out.

To Anon.

Patrick Henry

New allies keep pouring in.

Paul Elam

Indeed!

Grey Knight

I’ve seen a few “woman logic” meme made by anonymous – some of them are quite funny. It was only a matter of time until they overlap with our cause.

Introspectre

I’m glad to see that Anonymous, understands the situation. As a man who has studied strategy for over a decade, I’ve got to say, these are some of the best allies we could have, given current circumstances.

SEforever

The fags of the LGBT movement will applaud when one of these cunts talks bad about boys and men. I’m gay myself but the modern LGBT movement is a fucking disgrace. A bunch of sissy fags who are traitors to men and boys.

Most boys grow up to be heterosexual, it’s not a fucking conspiracy, that’s the way nature works most of the time. I would never try to make a young friend gay, especially since I can’t stand most fags because of how they identify with women so much.

If anybody is going to stop these femi-nazis it has to be straight men. Most gay men are useless feminized pieces of shit that would love to castrate boys and turn them into girls.

http://www.manwomanmyth.com Perseus

Greetings SEforever, it is highly meaningful to hear your experience and perspective. I empathize with you, and this provides great insight to better address our struggle.

Paul Elam

I down voted you. You are welcome to your opinion, but it is hard to take seriously when articulated with all the brio of a skinhead.

Marsyco

Hello SEforever.
I empathise with your point brother, but I don’t think many can agree with you.
There is in fact a great deal of evidence to suggest that humans are naturaly supposed to be bisexual, so perhaps society has influenced the rate of exclusive heterosexuality to a degree, regardless, what somebody does in the bedroom has little to do with what type of activist they are.
I agree that the LGBT groups around today do nothing to help themselves and often promote a feminised view of homosexuality but I find your comment angry and tinged with hate and I fear this will drive people away from you regardless of the validity of your statements.

Also saying identifying with women is a bad thing for a man to do is equivalent to calling men who do this “not real men”. This takes away from the Zeta philosophy and even if it didn’t women are not the problem, feminism is.
There are many amazing women fighting feminism, some of them on this site, a great many men could benefit from emulating these powerful mens rights activists. Likewise there are many heterosexual mens men supporting feminism right now. I can honeslty say I have never been threatened with violence for “offending a lady” by a homosexual, I have however experienced this from many homophobic MEN! and many attempted to make good on their threats.

Please don’t bash groups where it isn’t warranted.

Brutal Antipathy

A great deal of evidence to suggest that humans are naturally supposed to be bisexual? I find that hard to believe. Certainly our biological evolution does not point in this direction.

I do not mean to detract from your response to SEforever, but I find that particular claim to be as hard to swallow as the claim that gender is a social construct. Both seem to have their origins in feminist philosophy, and both seem equally detached from reality.

Marsyco

Well our closest primate relatives, the bonobos, are almost exclusivly bisexual and the majority of conflict between them is solved by sexual contact between the hostile parties. They are also quite prone to orgies.

A look at sociobiology or anthropology shows that the majority of early civilizations were almost exclusivly bisexual as well. The greek proverb “boys for love, women for babies” comes to mind. Most people are aware of the sexual deviance of the greeks in particular but it is also observable among other cultures of the time.
There are many theories of why this is with the most promonant probably being a way to reduce in group conflict so they could focus on taking resources from outgroups and so the soldiers involved could bond more deeply with eachother.

Whether you want to believe this idea or not is of course up to you. I was simply saying the idea isn’t new and is certainly not a conspiracy from the LGBT or the feminist movement whether or not those groups endorse it.

Marsyco

I should point out I was refering to the ancient greeks here not their modern counterparts.

Brutal Antipathy

Actually, bisexuality is only observed in some male bonobo, with the majority of the females being bisexual.

With the Greeks, pederasty was a sociopolitical construct, with the young male or female showing deference and submission to the older mentoring male or female. While bisexuality between adults was not unheard of in Greek culture, it was generally frowned upon. By contrast, our oldest records of civilization from Mesopotamia find no mention of homosexuality. About the closest you can get is the relationship between Gilgamesh and Enki, but it would take some imagination to transform their relationship into a homoerotic one.

But hey, who am I to spoil ones delusions? If you want to ignore the literature and buy into the propaganda, by all means, be my guest!

Marsyco

So encouraged sex between man and child regardless of gender doesn’t point towards a civilisational bias of sexual obscurity?
And don’t you find no mention a little odd?
I mean times were brutal back then and one would imagine if people had a problem with it there would be executions, but instead there is no mention?
I think it’s possible that points to a sociaty wide ambivalence at least.

Ahh never mind. I would greatly enjoy engaging in a debate about this with you but I fear this isn’t the place for that. I hope you will at least agree there is literature on both sides, regardless of the side of the debate you find yourself on.
My original point was this, the idea of an original bias towards bisexuality is not a feminist conspiracy. Although you may consider it bad science if you wish.

As you so kindly leave me to my delusions, I will leave you to yours.

Gears

Chimpanzees are accepted as more evolved than bonobos in terms of physical appearance, behaviour and social structure. Bonobos are called the “Peter Pan of apes” because they never mature past juvenile behaviours and are more risk-averse than chimps.

.ProleScum.

Go Anonymous, go!

Looking ahead, I see a glittering career in the voluntary sector for these princesses.

Working with all those homeless men, maybe they’ll learn a thing or two.

Kimski

Maybe not, because most homeless men would treat them with decency, respect and gratitude. Look what that brought the rest of us.

I’m glad Anonymous is involved now. I also liked the movie, “V for Vendetta,” so I appreciate their masks, too.

At one time Sweden was equated with sexual freedom. Its women were also deemed the most desirable. Now, hell, they don’t even make decent porn.

Feminists took the gold of the BC Pill and turned it to dross. Similarly, Swedish women used their sex freedom to enslave men. Now, thanks to the Internet, that sexism is coming back to bite them…big time.

Back in the day, the allure of Swedish women was used in a funny beer commercial:

Of course, feminists being Orwell’s ‘Junior Anti-Sex League,’ attorney Lori Peterson sued the company for sexual harassment (I debated her on TV at the time).

Also, methinks the clip below says a lot about the current sad state of Swedish men. They’ve gone from being fierce warriors to henpecked wimps. Imagine how the poor dude acts at home when the Missus lays into him!

I also wonder how many Swedish men now think, in addition to condoms, they should have protected themselves from feminism’s toxicity by joining the MRM. Their misandric social state wouldn’t have been born.

Anyway, imagine the piss-stained panties of those fun-lovin’ egalitarian Swedish meatballheads who made the video! They’re no doubt crying hysterically now about being targeted by Anonymous!

Paul, this could put “A Voice for Men” on the map!

Imagine…”NYT: The Swedish government today announced its family law computers were hacked by Anonymous. Apparently that cyber-savvy group was alerted to anti-male plays being performed in Sweden by the men’s rights group, A Voice For Men, headed by one Paul Elam. Mr Elam, resting on his 5,000 acre ranch in Unlimited Resources, TX, opined that ‘It’s ’bout time someone opened a can o’ whupass on them ornery, fulminatin’ sexist Swedish sidewinders.’ As he adjusted his Stetson and went back to fishing, we asked his masseuse….”

One can hope.

Eoghan

I agree with some of what you have said here … but I don’t think that these group are acting as you imagine. They are not out to frighten people into “pissing in their panties” for your or anyone else entertainment. Going by the tone of the announcement, I’d say that this group might resent your framing of their actions. There seems to be warning in there for all of the blogs involved in this, so if there are any idiots out there that identify as mra’s that are talking about retaliatory violence or alluding to it this warning would seem to apply to them also.

Kimski

I agree.
We should always be careful not to become like the ones we are fighting.

“And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

Eoghan

Thanks for that Kimski.

As I’m a “fair weather” commentator here, as in I only seem to show up when things are kicking off in some way, I notice changes in the mood and tone of the comments section and it seems to me that we need to be vigilant, as you say “And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” I’ve seen comments that really are in the same territory as radical-hub going unquestioned and encouraged by multiple thumbs up.

American

Well for one I would think that “Anonymous” is more of a group of pranksters, and hackers and the Swedish fems really don’t have much to worry about from them.

[Admin note: The remainder of this comment has been deleted. Reason: Stupidity. User banned.]

Eoghan

You’re either an incredibly stupid mra or you are a feminist that’s trying to bring Paul Elam and his site into disrepute.

Paul Elam

Did you give any thought to that comment at all? I mean really. Do you know how fucking hard it is to take the appropriate actions we need to take to deal with ideologues that have the whole fucking world on their side?

Have you ever considered that when you use my name in this way the kind of fodder you are handing people on a silver platter?

And have you thought for even a fucking minute that I DO NOT sit around contemplating my ability to get a gun and shoot people?

See that edit key below your post? Kindly either use it to get rid of that fucking moron statement, or I will do it for you, and send you on your way as well.

FUCK SAKE!!!

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

You repulsive dull witted glassy-eyed self serving donk.

Advocating violence indeed ! What the hell did you have for breakfast… a bowl of bullets and milk ?

How abouts you get rid of that pustular covered post right the fuck now… hhhmmm ?

http://www.avoiceformen.com John the Other

@American – your comment, suggesting retributive violence is still on the site because Paul got to it before me, and is giving you the option to edit it. Mr Elam is a very forgiving fellow. Had I seen it first, your comment would be deleted, and you would be banned.

Kimski

Thank You very, very much.
That last part of your entry is one of the funniest things I’ve read in years.
I’ll be crossing my fingers and toes for this outcome, while laughing hysterically over the mental image.

Gentlemen, if you are intellectually honest you will admit to yourselves (if not out loud) that no matter how we resist, whether through ‘civilized’ dialouge aka: apeasement, all spoken politely with flowery phrases and pussy correct language, or through harsh language with lots of cussing and violent imagery at the top of our lungs, we will still never be seen or described as a legitimate voice by our opposition. Their dogma-wide intellectual dishonesty ensures this no-win scenario.

We will be seen as a social pariah no matter what…

It really makes no difference which rhetorical tactics we choose to employ in this war against us, as our enemies will continue to attempt to shout us down, call us names, marginalize and villify us as a group, regardless of what we do.

I for one, am tired of being told to “keep it down” lest I offend the wimmins…from those who profess to be ‘fighting back’!

My favorite was a suggestion that I somehow come off as a “rabid dog” while expressing my POV. I had to laugh at that very feminist-like description of me.
I’m sure many others here can see the sheer stupidity in such an admonishment.

Gee, and here I thought I was just another run of the mill pissed off guy who has had enough of this Twilight Zone Bullshit!
Wonders may never cease and I guess one really does learn something new each and every day!

So with that said and from one ‘rabid dog’ to another:

I have to ask myself at least, if in fact no one else has the stomach to even entertain the idea of actually fighting back in a way women DON’T like or approve of, or which may even bring derision from our own ranks:

“Which way do I want to fight this war?
On my feet, or on my fucking knees?”

Also, and I think this is kind of important; “Do I want to actually win this war???”

And finally:”If winning this war means I may come off as sounding like a “rabid dog”, will it all still be worth it anyway?

http://aleknovy.com/ Alek Novy

Gentlemen, if you are intellectually honest you will admit to yourselves (if not out loud) that no matter how we resist, whether through ‘civilized’ dialouge aka: apeasement, all spoken politely with flowery phrases and pussy correct language, or through harsh language with lots of cussing and violent imagery at the top of our lungs, we will still never be seen or described as a legitimate voice by our opposition. Their dogma-wide intellectual dishonesty ensures this no-win scenario.

Well if you get the language “pussy-correct” and are “civilized” and “polite” enough, you will simply be ignored.

The guys at feminist-critics have conclusively proven that. They have been trying to get civil dialogue and have been doing everything possible to get dialogue with feminists for years, including… editing out pussy-incorrect language from commenters, imposing numerous language restrictions and rules, all in order “to create a less hostile enviroment where feminists might feel safe to come and read opposing voices in peace”

No matter what they try, no feminist ever gives a crap about them or pays any attention to them. And it’s not for lack of effort. They’ve invested almost as much energy into their strategy as Paul Elam has in his’ – and they’ve been doing it for much longer.

They’ve changed writing styles, ways of reaching out, ways of trying to explain male issues in more pussy-friendly ways – you name it, they’ve tried it. And they have ZERO results… and they still blame themselves.

They’re still going “Maybe we’re just not communicating it well enough”, “maybe we haven’t created a safe enough enviroment?”.

The truth is that “lack of civility” is just a silencing method used against effective activists. And while I think it is possible to get results with dialogue in some areas of politics and business – in this particular area of dealing with feminists, it’s not.

These are actual cult-members. There’s no reasoning or dialogue with hardcore idealogues and zealots. You just defeat them.

Paul Elam

100,000,000 thumbs UP!!

Eoghan

It’s because feminism is a polemic that there is no reasoning with it imo, it’s just not designed to compromise.

Brutal Antipathy

There is a saying within the debate arena. Mere fact does not the zealot sway. The object of discourse is not to convince the dogmatic cultist, but rather to bring the ambivalent fence sitters and the apathetic onlookers onto your side. Ones choice of language and approach really does matter to these people. Should both sides appear equally rabid and uncouth, they will pronounce both sides equally insane, shrug, and walk away. But should one side seem well mannered and reasonable, that side will draw support from the relatively sane masses while only those suffering from gross mental disorders will side with the radical fringe element.

http://aleknovy.com/ Alek Novy

Nice in theory.

In practice, men are ANGRY. In other words, the potential joiners are already angry and are looking for someone who is ACCEPTING of their anger.

Btw, I know this sounds ironic, but I used to write comments just like your just a year ago. If you don’t believe me, ask Paul Elam

I used to argue all this stuff about attracting fence-sitters bla bla bla…

Real-life changed my views. Go to feminist-critics and see how much fence-sitters they attract. Come to AVfM and see the incredible drove of new-joiners.

Again, your points are theory (one I’ve posited myself a year ago), but the practice is different.

The diplomatic, soft-communication approach gets ignored by everyone, not just feminists.

OH and PS.

The way we’re different in what we say is because we have TRUTH on our side. We don’t differentiate from radfems by saying it in a nicer way. We differentiate by SAYING THE TRUTH.

You saying that by speaking just as passionately as they do, that we “appear just like them to casual fence-sitters”… To that my answer is “who gives a fuck”. Seriously, grow a spine and stop worrying what random fence-sitters think.

The kinds of fence-sitters who can’t see the difference between a PASSIONATE TRUTH and a passionate lie, are people who wouldn’t have joined anyway. Does that make sense or not?

The kinds of people who will falsely equate passionate MRA with radfems, are people who wouldn’t have joined ANYWAY. If you took upon the FeministCritics nicey nice approach, you just get IGNORED, not joined.

Eoghan

There is a myth that exists in the men’s movement – that all anger, emotional hyperbole and wild claims and generalizations are always useful, and that any pointing out that this isn’t the always case is some sort of thought crime, tantamount to being a mangina and always motivated by women or feminists.

Its a fact that anger can be useful, its also fact that it can be useless and self defeating.

Ted

“Its a fact that anger can be useful, its also fact that it can be useless and self defeating.”

Anger is not useless. It’s a prime motivator.

The danger comes in the hormonal response. Unthinking “seeing red” and violent action. Entirely appropriate when under physical attack, but possibly self-defeating in this one-step-removed internet world. Then, it can be used as a deliberate tactic to cloud your thinking.

Eoghan

I didn’t explain that properly, I meant angry commentary can be both useful and self defeating.

http://charles-feminismthemisandristsruse.blogspot.com manfromman

By now, after all I’ve seen, heard, read, written, experienced, I should ‘ve been used to and immune to this kind of news but…I am not! I am perplexed beyond description.

Although most religious adherents refer to their God as “him,” I don’t think the argument about whether the God is really a man or a woman has been quite settled. On the other hand, the gender of the Devil needs no argument. I believe a consensus has been reached, or very close to be reached, about the Devil’s gender.

As an atheist, I have always viewed the biblical story of “Adam & Eve,” in the book of Genesis, as a metaphorical story, nevertheless, I’m beginning to find the story quite interesting—if only metaphorically.

In the story, I couldn’t quite comprehend why the serpent did approach the woman and not the man—that was a mistery to me. Interestingly, feminism has helped me to unravel the mistery.

I am fully aware that this is not a religious site, but neither am I. I am simply trying to drive home a point and I only hope I did.

AMEN! That’s the spirit. We’re Americans, not Swedish (no pun intended). Feminists seem to have an acute faulty reasoning. I don’t think they have thoroughly dwell on what could happen when you push a man too far and there’s no more ground to yield, and all you have left is a wall behind you and a shotgun.

Eoghan

Fuck this dumb shit big mickey talk.

http://charles-feminismthemisandristsruse.blogspot.com manfromman

Chill out dude.

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

Why should he “chill out” ? Your comment sucks big time.

Paul Elam

I just banned someone for this. Let me make myself clearer, as there seems to be a sever case of dumbass floating around here for some reason.

WE DON’T ALLOW ANY ADVOCACY OF VIOLENCE HERE. ANY.

ANYONE ELSE HAS A MIND TO POST THIS KIND OF SHIT ON MY WEBSITE, THEN SET YOU WATCH AND COUNT THE TICKS TILL YOU ARE GONE.

Kimski

@American & manfromman

I’m sorry, guys,-I’m not out to start a fight over this, but I’ve downvoted both of you and allow me to tell you why:

I sure as hell haven’t seen much bringing out the guns from the hundreds of thousands of american men that gets stripped of all assets and raped in courts every year, with everything from FRA’s to FDV’s, unless they use the guns to kill themselves with. And if that doesn’t apply to the term ‘backs against the wall’ nothing does. But if that was your point, I sincerely apologize for the downvote. From my point of view it doesn’t really matter which country you’re from or which gun laws you have, as long as an army of cops are ready to shoot you down without asking first, the moment you point that gun at a woman, be it in selfdefence or not. And no dead man has ever testified his innocence in any courtroom, ever.

@American.

As for the “Anonymous”: You can’t really spread a genderbased hate message through any media, if you’re hacked and shut down every time you try. They sort of would be restricted to do this at small tea-parties for the grrlz, where it wouldn’t have any impact on anyone, but the ones who are crazy in the first place, right?

http://charles-feminismthemisandristsruse.blogspot.com manfromman

Well Kimski that was the point I was, more or less, trying to convey–the increasing percentage of male suicide. But male suicides won’t be the only thing that will continue to increase. There will be many more men who will blow their brains out but they would take a bunch of people with them–and most likely the victim would be women; and neither the police nor the army would be there to safeguard them as it happened just recently with the guy who shot and killed all those women in the beauty-shop. History has shown us that we can push a group of people far, but at some point they’re going to fight back–regardless the outcome. History is full of examples. Apartheid is one of them. The essential point is–and this is what feminists don’t seem to realize or just don’t care–that you cannot solve a problem, real or perceived, by reversing it. As far as the “downvoting” thing, I don’t loose any sleep over trivial things. But I do appreciate your explanation.

Kimski

I’m repeating myself here, but I think you should give this some thought:

“And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

History has also shown that violence is the fastest way to elongate a conflict. Refusing to sink to the level of your opponent and retaliate has a force of it’s own, as you will hold the moral high ground. And who gives a fuck if the army or police is not there to defend someone, if you’re very likely to stare down the barrel of an M-16 later? You might as well spare yourself and others of the retaliation part and go jump off a bridge, because the outcome will be exactly the same.
On second thought..-Not exactly..-The ones who fight the same cause as you and choose not to die in vain, will have infinite bigger problems with getting through to the ones they oppose, as ALL will be held to the same standard as the ones using violence.
And I would like to think, that the majority of people in here are doing their damned best not to let things get to that point.

http://charles-feminismthemisandristsruse.blogspot.com manfromman

@Dr. F

I said “chill out” because there was no need for the cussing at me or anybody. He could have taken a few seconds and intelligently explain why he disagree. Kimski disagree and he was kind enough to offer an explanation why he disagree. Or he could have simply said–like you did–“Your comment sucks!”

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

You’re right, and I apologise for my lazy post. I should have expanded on what I said and so I will do just that.

When you say,”AMEN! That’s the spirit.” to a post that
endorses the same method of problem solving as the SCUM participants (murder) you flatline all of us to the same level of reptilian thinking.

You tar us all by that brush and make our fledgling movement homogenous with theirs in the eyes of those who just might jump rails to our side.

You’ve endorsed violence as SCUM activists have and make the chasm between MRA’s and SCUM, bridgeable.

Now I for one understand how it feels to vent and show strength in the moment of anger or joy, but you have to know that when you nail a hole in the submarine wall in order to feel a cool splash of water on your face you have the rest of us scrabbling about looking for a plug.

Violence shames us all and I would be remiss to accommodate it by ignoring it here on the site I cherish.

As for this bit, “We’re Americans, not Swedish”, it’s harmless enough I guess, but a bit silly when read on the borderless plains of the net.

…and this paragraph here, “I don’t think they have thoroughly dwell on what could happen when you push a man too far and there’s no more ground to yield, and all you have left is a wall behind you and a shotgun.” is I think you talking vicariously and are not representing yourself, I get that, except that it looks mighty juicy to a femtwit with a blog with a tether to the MSM.

That’s why I said your comment sucks, which it thoroughly does.

http://charles-feminismthemisandristsruse.blogspot.com manfromman

Yes, the comment sucks. I totally agree. I went back and re-read it a couple of times to see how it sounds and I saw what you all saw. It wasn’t a well thought out comment. But if you have noticed me around here for a while now you can see that that’s not a trend or a pattern of my comments. In my personal life I don’t believe in turning the other cheek, but that is not an indication that I endorse violence as a solution to a problem so complex as the one we all collectivelly are facing. I was trying to make a point of the potentially ugly things that could take place (and have taken place) when you push another human being too far and that person feel that he or she ran out of options—as the unfortunate case of the man who set himself on fire in front of the court house, or the man who shot all those women in the beauty-shop, for example. But it seems that I had an unusual mental fart and the whole thing came out the wrong way. My apology and thank you for pointing it out.

Paul Elam

I am glad I saw this in the admin. I had come in here to ban you. Since I consider this a retraction of what you said, I will pass on the ban hammer this time.

This is a non negotiable rule here, friend. No violent talk, no way.

http://charles-feminismthemisandristsruse.blogspot.com manfromman

No Paul, that was a mental fart. When I came in here I had just left another website where I had a long and heated debated with a feminist and , as usual, I was ganged up by a group of manginas who came out in her defence since she could not handle it by herself. So I would admit I was pissed off. So, no you don’t need to use the hammer (lol). It’s all good.

http://www.avoiceformen.com Dr. F

All good.

I’d be Mr Pinocchio with a nose so long it needs wheels if I said I have never written posts that stunk. I have before for sure and kudos to you for your response here now.

We all make fine mistakes and that in itself is merely academic. What does matter is how we respond to our mistakes and you’ve excelled here in that way.

Mr “American” has yet to show the same class as yourself, but I’m of no doubt he’ll take reclusive measures somewhere silently and ashamed.

Thoth

To settle any financial dispute with violence is plain dumb. Nobody put a gun to our head, now that the dads are all gone the shot gun weddings are a thing of the past….these days we got slut walks, “pretty women” is gonna get bang raped, just do your walk on by the slut, whistling take a walk on the wild side if you happen to remember.
hit them where it hurts….in the wallet and if need be, where it really matters, remove yourself from the family and start running, raising a family with no funds, and no help from a partner is such a good idea…let them have it. The hog wash these days is hard too keep up with, when did nurture over nature get thrown out? The legal system is run by insane criminals where the alleged victim is actually the perp….avoid it by disappearing.
Ignore them when they need help and piss them off when they dont and as a equal hunter for survival, use intelligence to out maneuver them ….they asked to be treated equal. Give them a nice big spoonful of equality, and keep you wealth hidden.

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“Our kitchen was classic 1970s avocado green. Blood was everywhere, the floors, the refrigerator, the phone, the counters. Red on green makes black. I was 7-years old. I watched them put my Dad in the back of the ambulance. The neighbors, in bathrobes and pajamas, had lined the block.”