Theaetetus:I_C_Weener: Theaetetus: I_C_Weener: But its inconvenient. And so are going to the polls. I mean get out of bed and sometime between 6am and 8pm go somewhere in your neighborhood to vote. Its unconscionable.

Can you get a voter ID at the same location at the same hours? No? You have to go across town and wait in a 6 hour line for a window that's only open for two hours on a Thursday, and if you're not in the front of the line, you have to come back the next week? You mean that one thing may be convenient and the other may not? Heavens!

Sounds like you guys need to think ahead. Lots of BMVs. Do you see long lines for driver's licenses that require a 6 hour line?

Uh, yes. Maybe you live someplace with not many people.

People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process. Not a poll tax. Just an ID. A free one. Make it avaliable. People cry fraud all the time. Eliminate the small amount of fraud and the large cry by doing something simple that most people manage without even thinking about it.

Getting an ID is not the travail everyone claims it is.

1) Yes, it is, because it's not 'made available'. You say that it should be done at the BMVs... Okay, maybe that's a decent proposal (it's not, for the reason noted above), but that's not currently where you get your voter ID. So, saying, "well, we could make it convenient," doesn't change the fact that you haven't actually done that yet.

2) If you were really concerned about fraud, then you'd have no problem with having this requirement start next year, since fraud will exist regardless. The only reason to slam it through in the next month is because you want to disenfranchise people in this election.

God forbid anyone actually have to prove who they are in order to vote.

Constitution forbids anyone from having to pay to vote. Make the IDs free and automatically issued for everyone and you might get somewhere.

But then the Republicans would raise hell about the government tracking individuals for no good reason, because that's the first step to fascist rule. It's that kind of wail that's kept national ID cards off the table for decades, in spite of the problems of rampant identity theft and the known flaws in half-assing a people-tracking solution using Social Security numbers.

... or at least, the Republicans I knew would have been against mandatory government-issued IDs for everyone. But where they stand on this voter ID thing seems to belay that... I just don't know who they are anymore.

Another thought hey Republicans you really did dodge a bullet to be honest. If something were to happen where people could not vote or Romney did win by a slim margin, The GOP would be sued till the end of time.The Republicans would never hear the end of it

Giltric:King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

If something has to be paid for, it is not free. Taxpayers pay for the "free" voter IDs, therefore they are not free. Plus, obtaining the IDs requires citizens to take time, which is money, out of their lives.

Marine1:Dude, if you don't have an ID, you're off the farking grid these days. I mean, no ID? None? Whatsoever?

it doesn't change the fact that you have a constitutionally guaranteed right to vote.

plus, there is virtually no voter fraud out there. sure, there's the occasional voter registration fraud - typically perpetrated by republicans, i might add - but there is virtually no voter fraud.

so, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. and it's a solution offered by republicans specifically do disenfranchise democrats. they've said so themselves. and for the "party of small government," creating laws to address nonexistent problems seems, well, strange, don't you think?

bhcompy:Fabric_Man: Judge decides illegal immigrants and dead people the poor still allowed to vote in PA

I know it's sarcasm, but still

I never understood this. Why does being poor prohibit you from having a state issued ID?

Yes because everyone can afford to skip off work and find transportation to travel in many cases to another city to getting a state issued ID at minimal cost. It not like they have to pay rent and eat. It like Mitt Romney told me, these lazy bums think they have the right not to starve to death.

Conservatards on Fark: It's free, it's free!Rest of us: No, it's not, it costs the person money to go get it and also the taxpayers. Small government WHAR WHAR?Conservatards: It fixes a problem!Rest of us: 0.00003% of the votes, dipsh*t.Conservatards: ....Conservatards: Dead voters, immigrants, derp!

justtray:Marine1: Disposable Rob: Marine1: You know... let's take a look at all you need an ID for:

DrivingPurchasing a firearmCarrying a firearmCashing a checkOpening a bank accountUsing a debit or credit cardOpening a line of creditBoarding a commercial flightGoing to college (you may or may not need one for registration, but they will make you get one from them when you're on campus)Getting a passportBuying tobaccoBuying alcoholBuying medical marijuana (in states that allow it)Going over the border into Canada or MexicoTransferring large amounts of cash (thank the PATRIOT Act for that)Apply for a job at a government institution (they're going to want to make sure you're here legally)Being shown an apartment you're considering a lease on

With all of that in mind... just who the fark is going around without an ID? Forget whether or not these people could vote if that law had been passed... how much of a disadvantage are these folks at in their every day lives without one? How about we focus on that?

I liked how you list things that only people with money do. You do have the sense to realize that poverty is a major disadvantage, though. Some of us try to focus on that, but then Republicans complain that poor people own refrigerators and get government cell phones.

Yes, because poor people don't live in apartments, don't purchase any tobacco or cigarettes, don't cash paychecks, and don't drive.

That's shiat you do no matter what your income level.

An ID isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes, which was already told to you. Occasionally you have to prove your age, but that's just the discretion of the shop owner.

You're reaching, and simultaneously pretending like you aren't bias. Just go the fark away moron. You've been shot down so many times in here you should be embarrassed for yourself.

It isn't required to buy alcohol or cigarettes? Let me tell all of the local high school burnouts to move to your locale so they can get their stuff without having to get an adult to buy it.

In Missouri, if you walk into a liquor store, there will be a sign in the store saying something to the effect of "WARNING TO MINORS: State Liquor Control agent may be posing as employee". If they sell tobacco, there will be a sign saying "WE ID" and a countdown clock saying "If you were born after (insert date and time 18 years ago to the moment here), you cannot buy tobacco products in this state".

So, yeah, you need ID to prove that you're not a minor in those situations. Otherwise, the owner will tell you to take a hike.

Do you want some pictures of said placards or do you want to bury your head even further into the sand? I can go take some pictures around town today to prove my point.

Aarontology:iheartscotch: As to the voter id issue; you are now required to show an employer your social security card and your id. You are required to show your social security card if you rent a house

You are, however, prohibited from using your social security card as a form of ID when you vote as it is not a picture ID

If they put your picture on it; they'd actually have to verify it was you.

Rwa2play:Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?

Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?

I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.

Evasion noted.

Evasion? Learn to use the internet, boy.

From this official PA site:Q: What if a voter shows up at the polling place without an acceptable ID?A: The voter will be able to vote by provisional ballot. However, in order for the ballot to count, a voter must, within six days after the election, provide the county board of elections with a copy of an acceptable ID and an affirmation that the voter is the same person who cast the provisional ballot. These documents may be mailed, faxed, sent electronically, or brought to the county election office.

I_C_Weener:People who complain about getting a free ID, aren't invested enough in the process.

They are American citizens.

They pay taxes.

That's their investment in the process.

Also, there's that whole Constitutional "right to vote" stuff. People say it's a "privilege," and that there's no "right" to vote, but that's bullshiat. Amendments 15, 19, 24 and 26 specifically refer to a citizen's "right to vote" - that it can't be restricted due to age, sex, failure to pay poll tax or age (if the person is over 18), respectively.

5monkeys:Poor cash checks, buy booze or cigarettes, live places, or have bank accounts. I am not rich, not by a mile, but i have an id. You need one in today's world.

Poor people frequently get paid in cash. The ones who get paid in checks frequently don't have bank accounts, and instead take them to check cashing places who will take 15% and not require ID and/or will simply check off a box saying 'checked ID' on a form without actually needing to look at said ID.Booze and cigarettes can be purchased without an ID, particularly if you're paying cash.You can rent crappy apartments from slum lords for cash without needing an ID, because they don't want to report the income to the IRS and if they have your cash, they don't care who the fark you are.

In short, you're incredibly naive. There's this huge world of people living by means you know nothing of.

HotIgneous Intruder:Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

If something has to be paid for, it is not free. Taxpayers pay for the "free" voter IDs, therefore they are not free. Plus, obtaining the IDs requires citizens to take time, which is money, out of their lives.

I_C_Weener:Biff_Steel: Can't we just dip our fingers in ink and do away with these shenanigans?

I would prefer every voter poll have an open bar. If you vote, you get free drinks the rest of the day. No one is going to then take the time to go poll to poll and keep voting. Interferes with drinking time.

This is, by far, the absolute best idea ever in the history of democratic elections.

coeyagi:Conservatards on Fark: It's free, it's free!Rest of us: No, it's not, it costs the person money to go get it and also the taxpayers. Small government WHAR WHAR?Conservatards: It fixes a problem!Rest of us: 0.00003% of the votes, dipsh*t.Conservatards: ....Conservatards: Dead voters, immigrants, derp!

Considering Democrats are still upset about Florida 2000, I'd think that integrity of elections would be paramount.

Leeds:what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

Throwing a last minute barrier to getting elected isn't helping democracy, it's disenfranchising the poor.

And you people KNOW THAT, but you really don't care.

THE ID's ARE ALREADY FREE.

That's right, FREE.

As in, there is no cost to get a photo ID in PA so that you can vote.

From the government page linked just above:Since the Pennsylvania Voter ID law was enacted in March, PennDOT has been working closely with the Department of State to ensure that every voter has the opportunity to obtain photo identification. If you don't possess photo identification for voting purposes, you will be able to obtain a new Department of State voter identification card for free by visiting a PennDOT Driver License Center.

How can people in this thread still be pretending that the normal $12 for a 4 year drivers license still applies here? That $3 a year fee is not even applicable, as these ID's are FREE.

// Sorry for all the yelling, I'm pissed that people are being misled by the Democrats

Ever lost your photo ID and had to go get a replacement? I have, and in Pennsylvania no less. Was in college at the time, and didn't have ready access to my birth certificate, social security card, or even a piece of postmarked mail with my name and address on it; my campus mailbox did not qualify as establishing residence. I had to get a birth certificate sent up from my parents, go get a replacement social security card (one weekday during business hours spent sitting in a shiatty government office in line), and the go get the drivers license (another weekday during business hours spent shiatty in a shiatty government office in line).

They may be free, but you don't just walk into a booth, get your picture taken and write your name on it. Students, the poor, and the elderly are less likely to have immediate access to the documents they need to get a FREE id, and the poor are less likely to be able to just take a work day off to go sit in line.

Another fun point -- this is PA, not FL, but in FL a big part of the republican disenfranchisement push is to prevent ex-convicts from voting. Seems more reasonable, right? Cause its just about the actions of those people, and not some correlated dog whistle racism? Well, in FL, ex-convicts are mostly majorities. In Maine and Vermont, which are both 94% white and have corresponding prison populations, the GOP strongly supports programs to let current convicts, regardless of offense, vote from prison before they have completed serving their sentence. You can continue making just blind, stupid, bullshiat arguments that this isn't targeted disenfranchisement; but the GOP's actions and policies clearly outline, "minority ex-convict should not be able to vote, while a white convict should."

bhcompy:coeyagi: Conservatards on Fark: It's free, it's free!Rest of us: No, it's not, it costs the person money to go get it and also the taxpayers. Small government WHAR WHAR?Conservatards: It fixes a problem!Rest of us: 0.00003% of the votes, dipsh*t.Conservatards: ....Conservatards: Dead voters, immigrants, derp!

Considering Democrats are still upset about Florida 2000, I'd think that integrity of elections would be paramount.

Leeds:Rwa2play: Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?

Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?

I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.

Evasion noted.

Evasion? Learn to use the internet, boy.

From this official PA site:Q: What if a voter shows up at the polling place without an acceptable ID?A: The voter will be able to vote by provisional ballot. However, in order for the ballot to count, a voter must, within six days after the election, provide the county board of elections with a copy of an acceptable ID and an affirmation that the voter is the same person who cast the provisional ballot. These documents may be mailed, faxed, sent electronically, or brought to the county election office.

County election officials will examine the provisional ballots within seven days after an election to determine whether you were entitled to vote in the election at the election district where you voted. After this seven-day period, you can find out if your provisional ballot was counted, partially counted or not counted by calling 1-877-VOTESPA.

You can vote, but your vote may not be counted - and you won't find out until after the fact.

Leeds:Rwa2play: Leeds: HotWingConspiracy: Leeds: Dusk-You-n-Me: what_now: Make the IDs free and make sure people have enough time to get one, and I'm fine with requiring one at the polls.

And if they forget their ID? Lose it? Have it stolen? Should they then lose their ability to vote?

Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!!

// Democrats actually believe this crap

You didn't answer the question.

Should they then lose their ability to vote?

I take it the term "provisional ballot" is one you've not come across before. Please feel free to look it up.

Evasion noted.

Evasion? Learn to use the internet, boy.

From this official PA site:Q: What if a voter shows up at the polling place without an acceptable ID?A: The voter will be able to vote by provisional ballot. However, in order for the ballot to count, a voter must, within six days after the election, provide the county board of elections with a copy of an acceptable ID and an affirmation that the voter is the same person who cast the provisional ballot. These documents may be mailed, faxed, sent electronically, or brought to the county election office.

I await your apology, asshole.

Just as soon as you apologize for trying to pass yourself off as a good troll. You're not even smart enough to do that well.

Actual attempted voter fraud that I, a poll worker, encountered:I was working at the election checking people off as they came in to vote. One fellow- who was nasty to begin with- came in to vote and was FLABBERGASTED that I wouldn't give him a ballot. He insisted he lived "just down the street", which is absolutely accurate...but in a different town.

He tried to show me his drivers license to "prove I am who I say I am", but 1) I'm not the person to dispute address with and 2) he freely admitted that he lived in Cambridge, not Somerville.

By his reasoning, he should be able to vote "wherever", because he was only voting for the state wide election.

Giltric:coeyagi: Giltric: King Something: OhLuverly: Haven't been following this much so if someone would please clear this up, how is requiring a state issued ID to vote a barrier to poor folks voting?

The IDs required are not free; hence, it's a poll tax.

The free IDs have already been cited via articles and PENNDOTs own website....care to try again?

Can you get them by sitting in your house and not spending money on a) birth certificate copy b) bus fare?

People are usually highly motivated to get free stuff....look at how much time effort and planning is put into robbing a clothing store with organized crews of unemployed democrats.....

Getting off your ass to get a job or a free ID is hard though....so lets go spend 5 hours striiping all the wire and copper pipe out of an abandoned home so we can get 14$ at the scrap yard.

Ok, so where is the problem? 0.00003% of votes from 2003-2007. Where is the F*CKING problem?

slykens1:I'm still struggling to understand how you can get through life without a photo ID in today's world - that is to say not needing one at least once every four years, our validity period in PA.

You know, sometimes I struggle to understand how people can get through life without legs. Having legs that I use everyday, it's hard for me to imagine life without them. And that's why resist all efforts to make polling places wheelchair accessible.

Leeds:Oh my goodness, what if they forget where to vote, or their car breaks down or they hit a deer on the way to the polling stations? We clearly need to send drivers out to pick up every resident in the state to make sure that they get to the polls on time!!! Democrats actually believe this crap

I'd like to hear a good argument why election day shouldn't be a mandated national holiday. Give everyone the day off to vote and volunteer at polling locations. Why not?