ENOUGH ROPE finishing up at the end of 2008

After six years of edge-of-the-seat television, multiple awards and a re-definition of the meaning of a talk-show, ABC TV and Zapruder's other films are today announcing that ENOUGH ROPE will not return in 2009. More >>

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Dennis Lillee

If you've had as your close personal friend Jack Nicholson, if Mick Jagger's been your groupie, if the Queen has personally sent you her autograph, and if 100,000 people have chanted your name in unison, you can really only be one man. Ladies and gentlemen, Dennis Lillee.

Welcome, Dennis.

Dennis Lillee:Thanks, mate.

Andrew Denton:Welcome to 'The Rope' as we call it.

Dennis Lillee:Thanks, mate.

Andrew Denton:My mum is so jealous. She just said, "Give him a kiss for me." And I apologise for what happened backstage. It was just

Dennis Lillee:(Laughs) I survived, mate.

Andrew Denton:We've got a photo of you as a bub that you've brought in. Little young infant Dennis Lillee.

Dennis Lillee:Um, you'd have to ask Mum. I don't remember much about it but I think I was I cried a bit, and was a bit disruptive but I think by and large I was probably OK.

Andrew Denton:As you grew into a kid, we've got a photo of you as a kid. How old were you there? You were a striking lad even then.

Dennis Lillee:Pretty shocking, isn't it? Um, 12, I'd say.

Andrew Denton:12 years old.

Dennis Lillee:At high school.

Andrew Denton:Even then you were obsessed with cricket, weren't you?

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, I mean, all sports. I loved all sports. And cricket, I suppose, was a just something was a bit mystical about it. In those days  it's a bit hard for people to understand now  there were no televisions and so it was radio. You're supposed to be asleep in bed and you've got the little transistor under the pillow. So I just think it was like, this thing is happening at this time of night miles away, I guess I couldn't relate to it and it seemed apart from like footy was great, athletics was great, but this was sort of mystical.

Andrew Denton:'Cause when I was a kid, I would literally run around the backyard pretending to be you. It's not that far-fetched, is it? Alright, it is that far-fetched. You were considered the greatest fast bowler of your time, if not ever, and yet you used to get very nervous before a game. What were you scared of?

Dennis Lillee:Probably getting smashed around by the batsman for a start. Um, I've always been nervous and I would sometimes before a game, particularly at school, I would have to go in the shower and stand under the shower for half an hour to an hour  freezing cold shower  to try and stop my nose bleeds, you know, from the sort of, you know, the nerves.

Andrew Denton:Really?

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, I don't know why. I mean, I guess you're just born like that. I mean, you seem a really nervous person too.

Andrew Denton:You think so? I'd never thought of it before but now you mention it Were you ever scared Did other bowlers scare you when you were playing international cricket?

Dennis Lillee:Yes, they did. One time I remember in particular was Thommo  Jeff Thomson, who I'd bowled with for years and played against for years in Shield cricket. And we sort of had a pact, an unwritten pact, that we wouldn't bowl each other bouncers.

Andrew Denton:Ohhh.

Dennis Lillee:And anyway, it got to my last game, and I was captain of Western Australia and he was captain of Queensland and it got real tight. And I don't know who started it but I'm glad it was only that last game because I could have been killed.

Andrew Denton:Yeah?

Dennis Lillee:No doubt about that. You know, he was just some lethal deliveries and that was when he was on the downhill run.

Andrew Denton:I'm going to ask you now to assess the relative skill you and Thommo had in scaring a batsman. This is the Enough Rope scale of batsmen's brown pants. If we could just bring this in. This is the scaredness level of batsmen. We have nervous fawn, tell-tale ochre, difficult to hide brown and completely lost it chocolate. Now, where do you reckon you were on this scale, Dennis?

Dennis Lillee:Mate, I tell you what, I reckon with Thommo I was definitely crammed somewhere in the middle.

Andrew Denton:But as a bowler what would you do to a batsman?

Dennis Lillee:Oh, as a bowler! Um, yeah, probably just depends. Probably the light brown varying to that was later in the career, towards the I suppose when I first started a lot were towards the darker end.

Andrew Denton:Right.

Dennis Lillee:So you put completely lost it in chocolate, really.

Andrew Denton:And Thommo, was he always at the dark ?

Dennis Lillee:Thommo was always completely lost it in chocolate.

Andrew Denton:There we are. We can remove the pants 'cause, quite frankly, they're making me ill.

Dennis Lillee:Me too.

Andrew Denton:We are Thommo used to say he loved the sound of a ball on a batsman's skull.

Dennis Lillee:I think Thommo regrets saying that. I mean, he's sort of Thommo just, you know, he's a great guy and just says what he thinks. But I don't think he really would have wanted to hit them on the head or hurt them badly.

Andrew Denton:And the same goes for you, obviously.

Dennis Lillee:No, really, I didn't mind if it actually hit the guy but I did qualify that by saying I didn't like it if it caused any permanent damage. You know, if it's a broken arm or, you know, broken thumb or rib, well, you know, that is part of the game. That is part of the game.

Andrew Denton:And permanent is a very flexible concept too.

Dennis Lillee:Oh, yeah. And so are some you know, as we saw with the degrees you had there. I mean, it is very different.

Andrew Denton:Yeah. We have some footage here of you in the Centenary Test bowling to a very troublesome Derek Randall who scored 170-odd. This is one where you didn't miss.

Commentator: And that's hit him on the head. A bad one, bad one. There was an appeal there. The ball's gone to second slip and caught. Now, the batsman is down. Randall knocked over by that one.

Commentator 2: That hit him right plumb flush on the head.

Dennis Lillee:Once again, it is part of the game. They have helmets now, they didn't in those days so it made it a little bit more difficult.

Andrew Denton:He actually spoke to you as he was lying on the pitch, didn't he?

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, I don't know what he said. Something like, he doffed his hat and said, "Good afternoon" or "Good morning, Mr Lillee." And, you know, he sort of Did you ever I don't know if you guys ever saw him, but when he batted, er, padded up, oh, sorry, when he stood there ready to face the ball, he's about to actually play the ball and he'd dart around two or three paces. It was annoying, you know? When he did this then he'd hit you. When he did this for some time I just said to him, "Mate, do you mind? "Stand still. I find it very difficult to hit a moving target." And he laughed. I mean, it was a throwaway line but, you know, he laughed so we do have a bit of humour out there.

Andrew Denton:One guy you did know, you got to know quite well, you saw him up close in a way few of us do, is Kerry Packer during World Series Cricket. Now, what kind of a man is K.P.?

Dennis Lillee:I saw a lot of Kerry. I never ever wanted to get on the bad side of Kerry. Um, and I saw once or twice people who did and, you know, yeah, it was pretty rough. His knowledge of the game, his love of the game, was phenomenal. I heard a story one time during World Series Cricket where, this is the other side of him, where it started to rain and everyone came off and the umpire left the ball out on the ground. And he apparently ran down in the rain, went and got the ball and took it into the dressing-room where the umpires were and said, "These cost money  look after that." There's a guy that was throwing millions in.

Andrew Denton:So he even had people by the balls then?

Dennis Lillee:Yes, exactly!

Andrew Denton:Remarkable. You were probably, certainly to all the women I know and some of the men, the most gorgeous man alive in the '70s. Uh, uh, my mother, we've had to restrain her tonight when she heard you were on the show. You know, basically it was going to be tongue-kiss city. She's been put to one side. How did you find the strength to repel the women that were throwing themselves at you?

Dennis Lillee:I never saw it, but I've got the strength, if it happened.

Andrew Denton:You're not telling me they were there for Max Walker, come on.

Dennis Lillee:(Laughs) Mate, it's about anything. I mean, you know, anyone who's popular, there's always going to be an opportunity. For anything. You know, drugs, whatever. And it's what you want to do with it.

Andrew Denton:You were really good at the showmanship, too. This is a classic piece of Dennis Lillee. I think this is why we love watching you so much, Dennis. Check this.

Commentator: Another bouncer. That's four in this over. I feel sure now that Umpire Brooks will definitely have something to say to Dennis Lillee. Yes, first warning. It is an official warning to both umpires and to Australian captain Greg Chappell. He has one more warning, and then he's off. Lillee, shaping as if to underarm the ball down. And Lillee, his follow-through within a couple of metres of Sadiq. Dennis looks like he'll leave the jumper till next time.

Dennis Lillee:I must apologise to all the kids out there. That's, er

Andrew Denton:That's not how you do it?

Dennis Lillee:That's not too good, no.

Andrew Denton:I was going to ask you, do you look back on that sort of thing now and think, "Oh, God, what was I thinking?"

Dennis Lillee:Look, I regret a lot of things I did, no doubt about that, and that was probably one of them, but I I just feel that if you are going for it in a sport and you've worked hard and you really want the success, not just for you but for your team, something can happen. And I don't say it's an excuse, as an excuse, I say it can happen. With me, it happened probably too often. But, um, I like to think that the good stuff I did far outweighed all that bad stuff. And it was some bad stuff, and I don't want you to bring any more on! There's too many!

Andrew Denton:Don't call me a moron. I want to move on to today's cricket team, Steve Waugh's mob. Which one of his squad would be best suited to the Ian Chappell team that you played in?

Dennis Lillee:Oh, Shane Warne. I mean No doubt. You know, he's a great guy. He is one of the only bowlers that I've seen  certainly spin bowler  that just makes the hairs, well, on the back of my neck, not the top, stand up. Because I just, er, I just think every time he comes in to bowl I think he can get a wicket.

Andrew Denton:What do you reckon the bigger mistake Shane has made is? Is it taking the diuretics or is it actually lying about how many he took?

Dennis Lillee:I think I really do believe And I spoke to a sports doctor about this just after it had happened, and I said, you know, "What do you think?" And he said, "Mate, they used diuretics to mask things 10 years ago." He said, "Mate, he's just taken the diuretics to obviously lose some weight or whatever," And he believes that and he's in that game. Um, I just think he was a bit, er, probably a bit naive. Um, you know, I think he really probably did believe, or his mum probably sort of thought, you know, "You've got a bit of a double chin, mate, look good." I mean, I do believe that. I hope I'm not naive, but I'm sure I'm not.

Andrew Denton:You bowled, officially, your last game a few years ago at the age of 50. You took three against Pakistan. What was it like knowing you were coming in for the last time to bowl?

Dennis Lillee:Um A relief on my body. Um, I guess I just held on for that last year or two to play in those games because my son had just started playing  Adam, my eldest son. I guess in the end 50, plus the chance that my son might play, I think those things were the ones that sort of made me play until that age  silly age  as a bowler.

Andrew Denton:What have you told your son Adam about the unavoidable fact that he has to play cricket in your shadow? What have you advised him?

Dennis Lillee:In our household, it was, er, there was nothing special about the fact that I played cricket for Australia and things like that. I mean, cricket was never taken home. It was just a normal household, you know, there's no, you know, "You're a star," or anything like that. Which is the way it should be

Andrew Denton:The family didn't chant, "Lillee, Lillee!"

Dennis Lillee:Not not all the time.

Andrew Denton:You you're considered a man's man. I think most men would say that. Do you ever cry?

Dennis Lillee:Oh, yeah. Um, I cried when I saw 'Love Story'. Actually, it was a bit funny, because we were in England, Helen and I, and Bruce Yardley and his wife Kath were up in Scotland. And it was the end of the season and we said, "See you back in Australia." Anyway, gone to 'Love Story', walked out, and we walked straight into Bruce and Kath Yardley. The chances of that are, you know, just impossible. And Kath had dark glasses on and I had dark glasses on, Helen had dark glasses on, so did Bruce. And we all had tears in the eyes.

Andrew Denton:Ahhh.

Dennis Lillee:Nice story, it was.

Andrew Denton:That is. That's

Dennis Lillee:And a few other times. I mean, I'm I'm as susceptible as anyone else, so

Andrew Denton:You're a big gooey lump, basically.

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, I think so.

Andrew Denton:Good to know. Being a sports legend, being a living sports legend, is it a bit like 'Groundhog Day' in that whatever room you go into you're reliving the same experiences over and over?

Dennis Lillee:It gives you a lot to have done well at a sport. Um, it gives you, you know, an opportunity to really, you know, to get to a lot of places and do a lot of things. The downside is everywhere you go you're known, and everywhere you go, you know, someone is there, and you get the real good ones, a lot of 'em  90%  and then you get the guy in the bar that just wants to grab your ear and belt it. And, you know, it's sort of, after a while, it's the same old story, he asks you the same old questions, much like yourself No, no. I mean

Andrew Denton:Yeah. No.

Dennis Lillee:And, er Sorry, mate.

Andrew Denton:That's alright. It's a fair cop.

Dennis Lillee:I'm only giving you a hard time. And, er, you know, you sort of get to the stage where, if they were great questions, terrific, it sort of gets you going. But then they say, "I was at " And it's nice of them, but you hear it from everyone, "I was at the Melbourne Cricket Ground the day you got Viv out, and I was there when ", you know. And in the end, what do you say? I mean, you say, "Oh, that's great," and that, but what more can you say? And I can only remember about three or four wickets I ever got. Maybe 10. So, you know, I mean, I've I've it's gone. And not that I want to get rid of it, but it's those red wines that destroy it.

Andrew Denton:You're bringing out a book later this year about your life story, so if all of this is gone

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, it's frightening, isn't it?

Andrew Denton:Yeah.

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, yeah. It was

Andrew Denton:Is it a colouring-in book?

Dennis Lillee:Yeah, it's a it's a Well, I figured that if I actually write it that I might not get asked those questions again. They can buy the book, and, er, and get the answers then. But, er, yeah, that was difficult, seriously, to write that book. I enjoyed it because it was interesting to have another look 20-odd years on, or more, 40 years on in some cases, you know? But it was hard work to recall all those things, but in the end it came out pretty good.

Andrew Denton:I look forward to seeing it. Do you go to bed at night ever with the chant of "Lillee, Lillee!" in your head?

Dennis Lillee:It's not something you sort of think, "Shit, I wish I was still out there." Um, I guess I never, ever have thought that. The thing I missed right at the end of my playing days was the comradeship that I had with all those mates that I played cricket with and particularly the ones that I played for some 12-14 years with. I mean, they I missed that when I first stopped. That was difficult. But when I first stopped, I actually got away from cricket totally for four or five years. And I think that did me the world of good. It then makes you, if you didn't want to, it makes you do other things.

Andrew Denton:Dennis, my mum's out the back, she wants to meet you, I'm afraid I can't restrain her any longer. Thank you very much for coming. It's been great.