I'm going to make this post very easy for you guys ok. All relationships may it be friendship or deeper are 100% shallow. There is NO love nor
spirituality about our existence in this reality. We are slaves to our basic primitive instincts that work on us without us even knowing it.

1. Studies have proved most women will always go for a much taller guy in shape or fat. Instinct tells women that shorter skinny guys aren't good
providers. Some of the rules do change just a bit if that short male is of a higher status.

2. Most women have attractive male friends. Instinct tells them it's a backup male. For men they take what they can get as long as you're loyal.

3. Again men are more open to different women if he isn't high status because he doesn't have many choices. Higher status males are almost in the
same level as the average female as in they have more choices.

4. The average ok looking female have many men to pick from. With this said, one can say it's the very reason most female can not understand what
it's like for most men who can't even get 1 girl to notice him.

5. Model like women seem to have near infinite men of all status wanting have both have sex and start relationships. These women got it made because
all they have to do is look super sexy and life gives them everything. Model like men have the choices of average women. Even so as a hot male you
still must work your ass off because women naturally look at everything about you and coldly judge.

6. Men are programmed to pass on the seed to many females. Women are picky because they want good strong genes.

What does this say about our world? Well, if you're a short 5'5 naturally thin guy most women won't notice your existence if you have no status.
For women you simply have to look pretty and have a healthy body. As I lurker on ATS for some time I've even noticed that highly attractive females
here got the most attention while most of the handsome guys are ignored unless they say something about their job that shows high status.

If you're a below average male or female I really don't know what to say to you. I mean if you're really trapped as a below average person society
will treat you like crap and no amount of feel good Love talk will help. NO amount of confidence will even help these people.

Originally posted by Alyssa
I'm going to make this post very easy for you guys ok. All relationships may it be friendship or deeper are 100% shallow. There is NO love nor
spirituality about our existence in this reality. We are slaves to our basic primitive instincts that work on us without us even knowing
it.

Disagree. You haven't felt love yet it seems so you don't get it.

1. Studies have proved most women will always go for a much taller guy in shape or fat. Instinct tells women that shorter skinny guys aren't
good providers. Some of the rules do change just a bit if that short male is of a higher status.

Studies? I don't believe in such studies. Did they study the entire planet? No, they studied a controlled group of people. I have never liked these
kinds of "studies" they are too bias. I have dated, tall, short, stocky, skinny, model material and so on. I dont go for tall buff guys. I go for
what's upstairs!

Back up male? Again I say no. I have many guy friends because my interests are more a field of men than women. Also my good looking male friends are
just that good looking male friends.

For men they take what they can get as long as you're loyal.

Really? That is kind of rude don't you think? You are saying men basically just settle as long as she is loyal?
Again I say no.

3. Again men are more open to different women if he isn't high status because he doesn't have many choices. Higher status males are almost in
the same level as the average female as in they have more choices.

Wow you are stereo typing and haven't a clue about men or women and I'm only on number 3. No offense but you haven't a clue what you are talking
about.

4. The average ok looking female have many men to pick from. With this said, one can say it's the very reason most female can not understand
what it's like for most men who can't even get 1 girl to notice him.

This is laughable. Men and women have equal opportunity, some choose to speak up more than others. Men and women need to learn to act accordingly to
get the attention they want. Act like an idiot well you attract idiots or you attract nothing.

5. Model like women seem to have near infinite men of all status wanting have both have sex and start relationships.

And do you think these men give a crap about her on the inside? No...who wants that? I don't.

These women got it made because all they have to do is look super sexy and life gives them everything.

HAHA you think that is true you are sadly mistaken! Being good looking doesn't mean you get everything you want! Sometimes you have to prove yourself
harder and show you aren't just a pretty face, THAT is unfair yet it happens.

Model like men have the choices of average women. Even so as a hot male you still must work your ass off because women naturally look at
everything about you and coldly judge.

Again WRONG. You are very one sided in your answers.
You are either young, inexperienced or jaded....or a combination.
Only an extremely shallow person would "coldly" judge another.

6. Men are programmed to pass on the seed to many females. Women are picky because they want good strong genes.

Men just want sex and believe me men are just as picky about who they plant their seed into. You can be a sex crazed nut and plant your seed without
actually planting it...It's called a condom.

What does this say about our world? Well, if you're a short 5'5 naturally thin guy most women won't notice your existence if you have no
status.

Not true again. I dated someone for 2yrs who fits that description and he had girls all over him, constantly. He didn't have anything, he worked
security at a college. He just knew how to approach women, something men don't know how to do all that well and the same can be said for women.

for some time I've even noticed that highly attractive females here got the most attention while most of the handsome guys are ignored unless
they say something about their job that shows high status.

Again you sound young and inexperienced in love. This whole status thing is superficial and someone who only cares about status is someone one
shouldn't want to have a loving relationship with because real love will never show.

If you're a below average male or female I really don't know what to say to you. I mean if you're really trapped as a below average person
society will treat you like crap and no amount of feel good Love talk will help. NO amount of confidence will even help these people.

You have no idea what you are talking about. This all sounds personal to me, personal like you need to go to talk to someone about the issues you have
personally with love. It's not society, it's your views.

If you're a below average male or female I really don't know what to say to you. I mean if you're really trapped as a below average person
society will treat you like crap and no amount of feel good Love talk will help. NO amount of confidence will even help these people.

lol, well I'm sure those words will be very encouraging for many people.

To be honest I'm quite a short and thin guy, and I know that isn't something women are particularly attracted to (although there is a very small
percentage who are), but it doesn't particularly bother me. I've been with a few women in the last few years, I don't feel a particular need to go out
and find 'the one'. I enjoy the freedom and time that I have when not in a relationship.

I find that having a good personality is A LOT more important than you may actually think. A below average guy can get above average girls with the
right personally, wealth and status doesn't necessarily need to be a factor involved. With enough confidence and charm almost any guy can get almost
any girl, the trick is making sure that you always have that confidence.

I get the feeling you've never really been in a meaningful relationship if you are trying to claim all relationships are 100% shallow. I don't believe
that is true, there are deep bonds of love that exist in this world, connections that you obviously haven't experienced. It's relatively rare, but
there are many relationships in this world that aren't completely shallow and instinctual.

Only immature people are that shallow. In time, and especially after several failed relationships, most people wise up and realize that if they want a
good, realistic relationship they need to broaden their focus and be more flexible in their standards of potential mates.

This does not mean they "lower" their standards....it means they take more factors into account. When people are immature they have an IDEALIZED
concept of a partner....as they grow, they learn to judge potential partners by the content of their character, not the content of their DNA or bank
accounts.

Oh, one more thought--

Those scientists who do those studies are correct to a degree, but they leave out one important variable, the magical ingredient called "love" and
love is something science can never understand.....it defines all rules of Biology, chemistry or logic!

You're right. And things are changing as our society, pressures and scarce commodities change. But we're still animals at our core, and our ethics
are informed by our needs, and our needs are changing.

Sorry she didn't give you her phone number.

And to echo the poster above, smart women go for what's upstairs. Go look up short-term and long-term mating conquests. Women choose very different
men based upon what the woman's primary goal is - satisfaction or reproduction. And so do men - there are the women they date, and often, they're
not the women the guys bring home to mom. Nature is cruel. But there's nothing hotter than a smart guy who knows he has everything he needs.
Nothing.

How hot are women who believe they're nothing without a guy? And I mean by the 7th date, not the first night...

I do agree with alot of what the OP says. Due to media guidance on how people HAVE to be, it makes it extreamly difficult for below average people,
well what we have been told are below average people :sic: (esspecially men, as physical and status standards are generally not as important for men
as they are for women, that is a fact). To have a sentimental relationship (friendship is not problem I don't think).
Media has defined what is beauty and what is not... and a majority of people blindly follow this.

But relationships are not 100% hollow, love does exist, and accessible to everyone, just harder for some than others. Self confidence does help !!!
Self confidence implies a strong character, and a fighting spirit to attain that so important :sic: social "status"

Originally posted by WeSbO
I do agree with alot of what the OP says. Due to media guidance on how people HAVE to be, it makes it extreamly difficult for below average people,
well what we have been told are below average people :sic: (esspecially men, as physical and status standards are generally not as important for men
as they are for women, that is a fact). To have a sentimental relationship (friendship is not problem I don't think).
Media has defined what is beauty and what is not... and a majority of people blindly follow this.

But relationships are not 100% hollow, love does exist, and accessible to everyone, just harder for some than others. Self confidence does help !!!
Self confidence implies a strong character, and a fighting spirit to attain that so important :sic: social "status"

edit on 25-1-2012 by
WeSbO because: (no reason given)

Media is simply reflecting the preferences human beings have valued over the course of our evolution. Our animal instincts are to blame - not the
media. The media simply knows how to leverage our natural preferences in relation to what we purchase. Stop worshipping at the feet of Naomi Wolfe.
Think for yourself.

I think that this thread has some valid points, everything you listed seems plausible.
However I know for a fact that no matter who you are, what you look like, what your status is.
You can get with ANY woman or man in almost ANY circumstance.
You just have to be compatible to them and their Inner being.
I studied Neuro-linguistic-programming, Social Engineering and general Psychology for quite a few years now.
YOU CAN CREATE ATTRACTION IN A DESIRED OR POTENTIAL PARTNER VERY VERY EASILY.

However, whether or not you do this. IS THIS LOVE? short answer no.
It is in fact true that in all relationships, One of the individuals will love MORE than the other.
Your 100% on the ball that typical fairytale kind of relationships where each person loves as much as the other do not exist. this is incredibly rare.

However, Love does exist and although relationships may have superficial or primitive tendencies, such as going for a Hot person over an ugly person,
relationships are in fact far far more complicated and NOT primitive whatsoever, in fact, there are so many factors in a healthy and successful
relationship it wouldn't do justice to try and mention ALL points, because undoubtedly I would miss a few.

Conclusion:

Relationships are complex and are probably above most people's understanding in most cases.
( You know when you feel like you like someone, but you can't put your finger on it)

Love is REAL.
( Whether or not it is an equal relationship where both love as much as the other? I don't think so. at least not often)

Love and Attraction are DIFFERENT.
( You can Create Attraction, But Love takes time.)

I'd like to finally suggest that although some primitive instincts may make someone feel attached to another more easily ( be it a bigger build, or
sexier shape etc) I believe that ANYONE is Capable of being with ANYONE.
It's being able to work together towards similar goals and aspirations.

You're basing your entire argument on appearance, whereas today, if one is just interested in status, it's all about the Benjamins....

As far as love goes, that's a completely different animal than just finding a mate.

Romantic love (as opposed to familial or parental love) is like a much deeper friendship, where you care more about the other's happiness than your
own. It goes way beyond looking at an attractive mate, and encompasses many other factors than just appearance.

Also, love is a different animal than sex. You can have love without sex, and sex without love. But, together, well, that's just golden.

Originally posted by Alyssa
All relationships may it be friendship or deeper are 100% shallow. There is NO love nor spirituality about our existence in this reality. We are
slaves to our basic primitive instincts that work on us without us even knowing it.

After 56 years of living and loving people, I'm going to have to disagree strongly. Love is the most powerful force in the universe and is all around
us. We have but to partake... I'm DEEPLY in love with my husband of 20 years. There are instincts involved, of course. I was immediately attracted to
him. And he is a couple inches taller than me, but I have dated shorter men, too. (I'm 5'7")

I actually agree with your numbered points as generalizations, but I don't get how they prove that relationships are "100% shallow". I'm not even
sure what that means...

Your generalizations are true, but they don't take into account all the other aspects of relationships that exist. It's not just about attractions,
it's about time spent, forming bonds and memories. It's about caring so deeply for someone else that tears inexplicably come to your eyes... There
is MUCH more to relationships than physical attraction, infatuation and instinct.

Are you kidding, I think this post is 100% shallow. I have talked to people on here and had to be corrected because I misjudged their gender based on
their moniker or avatar. Any one knows an attractive woman will get more attention than an ugly one. People are capable of finding love. People who
say love is impossible are usually vein selfish people who are almost always loathed by others after the selfishness and vein attitude expose them for
what they are, a psychopath. I have seen the definition of psychopath on here many times, so I am sure I chose the right word. Self centered people
will always have a harder time to find someone who can cater to their ego and sensitivities, making them feel like love is impossible.

Originally posted by Druid42
Also curious to note, the members speaking the loudest are the ones most wrapped up in the comfortable illusion of love.

And which members are speaking the "loudest"? How do you tell how "loud" someone is speaking on here? Is it that those you agree with are the
soft-spoken ones and those with whom you disagree are the "loud" ones?

Funny that. The more you believe, the more real it makes it.

Oh, I believe in love, it's true. But I experienced it before I believed in it. Hopefully one day, you will, too.

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