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It isn't winched out evenly. When a puff comes along load and stretch go up, you luff tension goes down, the draft moves back and the sail gets baggier...

We're ultimately talking SOG here, aren't we??

I guess I just don't "get" your pursuit of ultimate luff tension on a recreational sailboat. Again, I seriously doubt 4" of stretch in a halyard can be measured in knots of speed to the negative, especially when you consider all the other factors (previously stated) that can more easily contribute, but that's just me. Additionally, luff tension via a halyard isn't the best way to control draft anyway, as it adversely effects roach and sail twist. If luff tension is a serious issue for you, your draft would be best controlled by the use of a cunningham instead.

Quote:

...If you want inexpensive low stretch halyards and can handle some work buy 3/8" XLE and splice it to 3/16" Amsteel. The working portion will all be dyneema and the XLE is relegated to piling up where it has no load and stretch doesn't matter...

I'm familiar with this technique, but IMO it's very little juice for the squeeze...

Perhaps I may have misrepresented my original post with regards to Cajun Line (Novabraid). Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating a cheaply made or inexpensive product. Heck, I'm currently in the process of rerigging with synthetic (Dynex Dux) standing rigging, which makes me far from the frugal refitter. Novabraid, from personal experience, appears to be a great line suitable for the cruising or recreational yacht. On the other hand, for those concerned about a negative (point) .10 kt in boat speed on a recreational sailboat, it probably isn't for you.

07-20-2013 11:25 AM

Alex W

Re: Recommendation for running rigging lines

It isn't winched out evenly. When a puff comes along load and stretch go up, you luff tension goes down, the draft moves back and the sail gets baggier. Its not much different than using old sails. That increases heel and overpowers the boat. This isn't a good thing.

If you want inexpensive low stretch halyards and can handle some work buy 3/8" XLE and splice it to 3/16" Amsteel. The working portion will all be dyneema and the XLE is relegated to piling up where it has no load and stretch doesn't matter.

The splice is easy and is shown on l-36.com.

I also use this splice for spinnaker topping lift and downhaul, reefing lines, and jib sheets.

I pay a lot of attention to my AWA and sheet trim, why would you suggest otherwise? That won't do anything to get proper luff tension on my headsail (which matters for controlling draft position) when my halyard is stretching 4"...

Whatever inherent stretch there may be in a halyard, much of it is winched-out anyway. I'm guessing by as much as 50% depending on tension. So, in your case, 4" now becomes 2".

My point is, is that when it comes to SOG, this negligible stretch in your halyard will mean nothing compared to the slightest inattention to the sheets or helm, dirty air, or a sudden shift in wind direction for that matter. But hey, if this stretch, and its infinitesimal effect on your SOG bothers you on your recreational boat, I can handle that.

07-09-2013 11:07 AM

Alex W

Re: Recommendation for running rigging lines

I pay a lot of attention to my AWA and sheet trim, why would you suggest otherwise? That won't do anything to get proper luff tension on my headsail (which matters for controlling draft position) when my halyard is stretching 4".

There are lines where stretch doesn't matter that much and Cajun/Novabraid XLE is fine. There just aren't that many of them, and they aren't the longest lines on a sailboat that cost money to replace anyway.

I talked about the fairly crappy line that they sell in post #12 of this thread.

I have used Samson and NE ropes in the past, from their various yacht braids (XLS, Sta-Set, etc.), to their high end lines on racing boats (MFP, Poly-TecH, etc.), all good line.

Six years ago I re-rigged with Cajun (Nova) line on my cruising sailboat, and have absolutely no complaints (so far). It's strong, wears well, splices easily, feels good in the hand, and for those cosmetic conscious, appears to hold its color well. [Edit: I have no affiliation with Cajun]

For those who do not seriously compete with their boat and site its (listed) higher than average stretch as an argument against, might I suggest you pay a bit more attention to your AWA and sheet trim, as it will have a far greater effect on your SOG than any negligible stretch.

Why is this odd? I mentioned it was stretchy. Not something you'd typically want on a sailboat. It would work, so would nylon.

"Might want to look into a single braid for the main sheet. Salsa, Apex, Bzzz line, are all good choices. Run easily, and very easy on the hands.
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"

Quote:

And it seems you mention VPC, SALSA, APEX, BZZZ all of which are NE products with no mention of affiliation.

I became a NER dealer the beginning of this year. And before making accusations, please check your facts. Apex is a SAMSON product, which I used for 2 years on my own boat.

Quote:

Did you have an experience that would change your mind?

Yes, I saw more specific data on the stretch characteristics of the line.

Quote:

Maybe you didn't have an affiliation with NE at the time but I must say it seems odd that you would recommend at least 4 NE products and now are a sales guy.

I can understand the confusion. I don't mean to come off like a salesman but I have more access than most about NER products. And to be honest, the more I learn the more I like the line. They make good products. I feel the same way about Samson line. There are pro's and con's to each, and too much detail will bore all involved and that's getting pretty specific from product to product.

07-04-2013 07:35 AM

Minnewaska

Re: Recommendation for running rigging lines

Pretty sure Cajun either has or does go by another name as well, which is considered a low end rope. I strongly considered it on price, but passed. For some of our sailing needs, we all probably get too hung up on this. There are people cruising with the stuff other cruisers threw out!

In the end, I think you generally get what you pay for. You just need to know what you want.

came across these guys, pretty neat looking outfit, bout to place an order. Kind of neat that if you are inclined they will sell you your whole kit in one shot... no affiliation just like what they offer.

I'm using VPC for jib sheets on my 25' racer, been very happy with their performance.
I've used Samson XLS before and it works well, but wouldn't recommend it for halyards or guys. I'm assuming the Cajun brand would work fine. Pretty stretchy though.

Might want to look into a single braid for the main sheet. Salsa, Apex, Bzzz line, are all good choices. Run easily, and very easy on the hands.
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Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"

And it seems you mention VPC, SALSA, APEX, BZZZ all of which are NE products with no mention of affiliation. Maybe you didn't work for them then or maybe the SN rules didn't require disclosure yet in either case you said 'Cajun would work fine' and now you say 'inferior product.' Did you have an experience that would change your mind?

Maybe you didn't have an affiliation with NE at the time but I must say it seems odd that you would recommend at least 4 NE products and now are a sales guy.

Just trying to understand your change of heart on the matter.

fair winds,
QM

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