Originally Posted by Lunatique:Yep, it's all about the important foundations of visual art. The number one mistake aspiring 3D artists make, is they don't realize they are first and foremost visual artists and must learn the foundation knowledge, and the medium they choose to work in is secondary, as are the tools they use.

We meet again
I actually posted in that tread.
At that time I think I was looking at sticky treads but I was probably thinking that drawing isnt that much since I could already do 3D modeling.

I re-read all posts in that tread today.
But I still got questions.

If you compare traditional drawing vs digital drawing you can see which one is better.
In photoshop for example you can choose whatever color you might need while in traditional you would have to go buy that color pen.

In digital you can erase parts or entire image without spending more paper and you dont get those marks from erasing.And sometimes after you erase couple of times on the same spot the paper gets thinner.

There are more things like this that makes digital drawing better than traditional.
So I thought if I do it digitaly that I would make the drawings more easily.

After I tried quite some times and already had some experience from using photoshop for textures for 3D models I figured out that I can do a lot by using a mouse to draw.
I first heard of wacom tablets on zbrush tutorials and I decided to buy one.
At that time I couldnt do even the crappy images with my mouse.

But I just didnt have any money,so it passed quite some time.
Few weeks ago I finnaly got one.
And at first I didnt know much,cuz it was a new device to me.

After I used it for a while I got more skill in using it.
So my speed improved and I was able to draw things I imagine more clearly.
But I got lot of stuff going on at the moment.
So I feel a lot of presure.

When I think about it,it feels like everything is streching me.
3d modeling wants me on his side.
Drawing on his side.
Sculpting on his side.
My family streches me on their side.

It seemed a good start for my drawing.
But I only watched 3 videos and I didnt do those training at the end.
I went modeling for my project and some other stuff.

Since I didnt actually felt like watching those tutorial videos cuz my headphones were broken I set a goal for drawing.
Draw several random images every day.
I did that for 2 days and again somthing else got in the way.

Are these random images a good idea?
If I continue with that,will I become better at actuall drawing or just in using wacom and photoshop?

Doing random images is not very helpful--in fact, that is how many uninformed and inexperienced people end up wasting years of their time walking around in circles, while not seeing much significant improvement in their artistic development.

Artistic skills and knowledge, as well as aesthetic sensibility, are like any other endeavor that requires training and practicing. You have to train in specific ways that are effective, like how musicians train and practice scales and chords, fingering techniques, expressions, articulations, sight-reading, music theory, etc, or writers having to study and practice their grammar, diction, syntax, dramatic structure, character development, thematic focus, pacing, conflict and resolution, show vs. tell, etc.

To learn and practice effectively, you have to target your weaknesses and train yourself to overcome them, and the only way to do that efficiently is to do exercises that focus on those areas. This is where most aspiring artists run into problems and then eventually give up--they have no idea how to learn and practice effectively, so they just waste time doing random images that don't actually help them develop in the most effectively manner possible. Then years go by and they see other people becoming far better artists while they are still treading in the same spot.

Don't think of it as you're being stretched too far with different things you have to do. Instead, you need to see them all as the same thing--they are all visual art, and all visual have the same critical foundations, so if you learn and practice the foundations, you'll be able to apply what you learned to ALL visual art. The only differences between the different specializations are the niche tools and some technical differences, but at their core, they are all exactly the same. The knowledge of how to light a scene effectively to portray the right mood, or how to depict characters with credibility and expressiveness, or using colors creatively, or tell an engaging visual story--all of that is exactly the same artistically whether you are doing a painting, a 3D scene, shooting photography, or making a film--only the tools are different, and the tools take far less time to learn than the artistic knowledge/insights.

If you work smart instead of working hard but ineffectively, you can achieve your goals much faster than if you were just randomly doing thing without a good strategy. So don't just be a clueless artist--be a smart artist so you can improve far faster and reach your goals much sooner.

Originally Posted by Lunatique:Doing random images is not very helpful--in fact, that is how many uninformed and inexperienced people end up wasting years of their time walking around in circles, while not seeing much significant improvement in their artistic development.

Artistic skills and knowledge, as well as aesthetic sensibility, are like any other endeavor that requires training and practicing. You have to train in specific ways that are effective, like how musicians train and practice scales and chords, fingering techniques, expressions, articulations, sight-reading, music theory, etc, or writers having to study and practice their grammar, diction, syntax, dramatic structure, character development, thematic focus, pacing, conflict and resolution, show vs. tell, etc.

To learn and practice effectively, you have to target your weaknesses and train yourself to overcome them, and the only way to do that efficiently is to do exercises that focus on those areas. This is where most aspiring artists run into problems and then eventually give up--they have no idea how to learn and practice effectively, so they just waste time doing random images that don't actually help them develop in the most effectively manner possible. Then years go by and they see other people becoming far better artists while they are still treading in the same spot.

Don't think of it as you're being stretched too far with different things you have to do. Instead, you need to see them all as the same thing--they are all visual art, and all visual have the same critical foundations, so if you learn and practice the foundations, you'll be able to apply what you learned to ALL visual art. The only differences between the different specializations are the niche tools and some technical differences, but at their core, they are all exactly the same. The knowledge of how to light a scene effectively to portray the right mood, or how to depict characters with credibility and expressiveness, or using colors creatively, or tell an engaging visual story--all of that is exactly the same artistically whether you are doing a painting, a 3D scene, shooting photography, or making a film--only the tools are different, and the tools take far less time to learn than the artistic knowledge/insights.

If you work smart instead of working hard but ineffectively, you can achieve your goals much faster than if you were just randomly doing thing without a good strategy. So don't just be a clueless artist--be a smart artist so you can improve far faster and reach your goals much sooner.

Well,I cant judge objectively how much I actually improved,but I know some people that became much better than I am(my opinion).
It's puzzling for me because when I do some work some of the modeler friends I got by joining their projects and similar say that I am quite good.

Whenever I am modeling,I dont use triangles,just quads.(it's a habbit and I cant get rid of it)
I see people modeling models and they look ok,but the wireframe is catastrofic.(but many people accept that as ok model)

I almost always start and finish a model in 1 day.(sometimes I leave texturing for other day)
Am I rushing it?

You mentioned foundations.
Do you mean drawing foundations of anatomy or modeling foundation of anatomy?
Do you think it would be easier to go and learn it by drawing cuz I am just starting with that?

It could be 3 ways IMO :
- by drawing
- by modeling
- by sculpting

I know,I am a tough case,but I want to be the smart artist and improve so that I can one day work at some big studio making games,movie,cartoons...
I hope that some things I wrote arent some that I mentioned before cuz I did write too much as always

Originally Posted by blackdragonstory:But when I was drawing these random stuff I noticed that I was really happy when I did them and I didnt even notice that several hours passed.
This is the same thing that happened to me when I was modeling characters,but I was frustrated in the end cuz those models didnt look as good as I thought they would be
While when I drew crappy images,I was still happy
But I cannot see if I could ever become a professional 2D artist.

So in the end you can see why I am confussed.
I dont know if I should keep up and try to strenghten all 3 or just 1.
Should I drop learning animation or rigging(I know some basic to intermediate stuff),but that's not where my interest is.
There are other questions in the in the text as well.

This is my 4,almost 5 years story.
And it's not a short one so I thank you for reading.
I shall await for your answers,advices or storys.

My art background is traditional fine art, in 1977 when attending high school aged 15 I was given an opportunity to design a logo for a book cover as a credited portfolio assignment by my art teacher, as I recall the concept was approved by the publishing house and the book was published using my design this event kick started my artistic journey. As a mature aged student at 21 completed a tertiary institute certificate level fine arts course to acquire the necessary core fundamentals which lead me to specific disciplines of interest sculpture, painting, and portraiture.

Aged 22 joined the military and served for 8 years, after discharge wanting to progress my art career I worked as a self employed artist on commission from 1990 to 1996 specifically a portraitist the mediums I used were pastel, graphite, charcoal, pen & ink, and mixed media. Compositions ranged between full figure group/family or solo portraits also included were pet portraits these were my favourites because of the difficulty, it was always a challenge to portray their individual characters to the owner's satisfaction the work wasn't steady and had to supplement my income with factory work. This experience IMHO was invaluable in terms of growth not only on the art side but also the business side.

In 2004 I decided to go back to school and learn computer programming, at the time the catch phrase was "We are now entering the digital age" so with that in mind I enrolled again as a "more mature" aged student in a certificate/degree packaged course in JAVA 1.42 with the intent gaining employment in the burgeoning web site/page development industry of that period and also explore the CGI spectrum, however due to illness withdraw in the fourth semester.

As mentioned I became interested in CGI, friends that were game devs and digital artists got me hooked so began my digital art journey. I evaluated various software packages did some courses together with self taught avenues to acquire some proficiency in pursuit of my end goal that is to develop an FPS demo for Android mobile and console devices.

Anyways what I'm attempting to highlight by sharing my personal testimonial as an example is the common thread of attaining a foundation/understanding that underpin the disciplines you've stated. For example drawing, I was born with the aptitude honed with constant practice enabled me to portray various subject matter eg: human face, vehicles, animals with reasonable execution/realism at a very young age.

However to progress/learn as a visual artist training is needed, in my case fine art was the "Foundation" the subject scope is vast and can't be learnt only from a book or video, to nurture mature growth a formal learning atmosphere is mandatory. As has been said the digital art space is visual, skillsets such as: observation, colour theory, proportion, sketching/drawing is termed as "Core Fundamentals", also consider the history of the two mediums CG is still in its infancy whereas traditional is centuries old in maturity.

Originally Posted by blackdragonstory:
I almost always start and finish a model in 1 day.(sometimes I leave texturing for other day)
Am I rushing it?

You mentioned foundations.
Do you mean drawing foundations of anatomy or modeling foundation of anatomy?
Do you think it would be easier to go and learn it by drawing cuz I am just starting with that?

It could be 3 ways IMO :
- by drawing
- by modeling
- by sculpting

Of course you're rushing it. Only relatively simple models can be done in only one day. Anything that's a bit more complex would take far longer. For example, a realistic character, or a detailed car would definitely take you much longer than a day. Some models can take even weeks. It's the same thing with 2D art. The kind of full-blown detailed illustration you see on the covers of sci-fi/fantasy novels--they can take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to complete. Beginners often underestimate how long it takes to do a piece of quality artwork, and become very impatient if an image is taking hours or a few days to complete. They don't realize that some paintings can even take months or years to finish (in the case of large scale traditional oil paintings, for example).

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