The Discovery Operations Pack!

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Unfortunately we're still left with a quandary. Until the tardigrade account wide is actually implemented why take the gamble on them sticking to their word? If this isn't done while the sale is on and the pack is actually at a reasonable price for its value, why get it at all?

So nothing NEW was added to the pack. Just the BOff's made account unlocks and a promise the combat pet will be made the same way. Things that should have been that way from the beginning.

I WAS going to buy the ships separate in their respective 2-packs that they (almost) always do when offering similar cross-faction ships. So imagine my surprise that there are no cross-faction packs for the ships. You buy them singly or in the overpriced pack. They know that if they offered the ships in two 2-packs, that's where a lot of people would buy them and skip the pack since the pack is so low in value (IMO).

So instead of getting at least some sale, they will get nothing from me. Promises of things to come are not going to get me to bite. I'd still like some official word on the bait and switch that happened with the Elite Starter Pack suddenly becoming the Elite Services Starter Pack, though I don't actually expect any.

So, until the starting price of the Discovery Operations Pack is reduced, or more value is added to the pack (like more ships), no sale.

@anubis0sarvour The changes made were that the BOFFs were made account-wide unlocks. The combat Tardigrade will be made account-wide unlock later. The discount for having already bought the previous Starter Pack was announced as well.

@anubis0sarvour The changes made were that the BOFFs were made account-wide unlocks. The combat Tardigrade will be made account-wide unlock later. The discount for having already bought the previous Starter Pack was announced as well.

Thank you! I'm still at work and just trying to check out all the new stuff in the packs!​​

What, "all the new stuff in the packs!"? It is the same items, nothing new, just a couple were made account wide unlocks, the BOFFs, with a promise that the combat pet, tardigrade, will be made account wide unlock too.

Yeah, Kael said on the live stream that they will eventually make the combat pet an account unlock.

Still, I wouldn't go buying anything until it's actually done. A verbal intent on a live stream isn't enough when you're talking the type of outrageous price this pack costs. Buy at your own risk, but if you want the combat pet for your account you should wait until it's actually implemented. If that takes until the sale is over, then fine.. skip it.

Just remember the Starter Pack Bait and Switch scam.. you're not working with a company that's afraid to skirt the line when it comes to their customers. Keep that in mind before you type in a credit card number.

I was the one on the stream that asked that question (gwindalmir).
I took his answer to mean "it's something we're looking into, not sure yet. Definitely not at launch though."
Though I didn't quite hear all of his answer, so I may have missed something.

You can not like the offering that is the Discovery Operations Pack. You can refuse to purchase it. But the accusations in here need to stop.

I respectfully disagree.

If we see practices being implemented that we feel are a concern then we have a right to speak up about it. It's based on fact, on things that are happening and have happened and it's concerning.

I do not wish to break the rules and do not wish to anger you personally, but I also will not be silent on these issues, nor should I have to be. Cryptic has engaged in some questionable marketing over the past months and they need to know that people realize it.

I encourage you to be lenient with such things, it's being discussed with the intent of getting the behavior corrected for all of our benefits. We can be respectful in pointing out our concern, that's fair.

I hope that despite all the "concessions" they've made, people will still see this pack as absolutely not worth the price. This includes the idea that it being on sale makes it more valuable, as if a sale is the actual asking price and not a tactic to show a good side.

Pack still isn't worth it in my opinion, and won't be until they either add more ships or drop the price. Character vs account unlocks isn't magically changing how I feel about this, and I hope that sales are still low just so this doesn't happen again.

I think you're being nice describing that as "concessions". I think this was a planned marketing ploy all along. However, doing so I'm sure there will be enough to buy it now so we as players, customers, should expect similar tactics down the road for STO more of this towards the player base & more gambling in more aspects of STO.

I totally agree with you about this being a planned marketing ploy all along. Furthermore, even with these "concessions" this pack is way too overpriced IMO

On a similar note I am annoyed that the clothing options are not available as discrete purchases. This is quite aside from my belief that the vest should have been part of the DSC uniform package from the beginning...

@seaofsorrows I'm not saying be silent. Hell, I agreed with the majority that the BOFFs and Tardigrade should've been account-wide unlocks. I'm glad that the vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change. And don't worry about angering me personally. I do my best to keep any of this forum business from being personal. I just know that some of the stuff being said about Cryptic's marketing lean towards borderline, if not out right, criminal accusations, and that just isn't going to fly in this forum. So, like I was saying, don't like it, don't buy it, but the accusations need to stop. If you don't agree with the way a certain item is being marketed, fine, say something. By all means, speak up. It obviously made a difference here. But we can't go that step further with the over the top accusations, though. That's all I'm saying.

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On a similar note I am annoyed that the clothing options are not available as discrete purchases. This is quite aside from my belief that the vest should have been part of the DSC uniform package from the beginning...

Priced at 500 zen they are 50 zen cheaper than other uniforms. They do come with fewer options than usual, but they also come with a single-character Boff as well so it evens out I think.

@seaofsorrows I'm not saying be silent. Hell, I agreed with the majority that the BOFFs and Tardigrade should've been account-wide unlocks. I'm glad that the vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change. And don't worry about angering me personally. I do my best to keep any of this forum business from being personal. I just know that some of the stuff being said about Cryptic's marketing lean towards borderline, if not out right, criminal accusations, and that just isn't going to fly in this forum. So, like I was saying, don't like it, don't buy it, but the accusations need to stop. If you don't agree with the way a certain item is being marketed, fine, say something. By all means, speak up. It obviously made a difference here. But we can't go that step further with the over the top accusations, though. That's all I'm saying.

Doing some quick general math in the C-store the pack price seems to have stabilized some. It's still not as good as should be expected, but it is a discount at least. I have the Starter Pack already, so I ran it without considering that (and considering the lower price for those who bought it). With everything included, sans start pack, it comes out to roughly 10,600 Zen (I did quick math in my head, not exact on a calculator). This means without the 30% sale it's not really a discount pack so much as a 'here's everything together' pack. But currently with the discount it's at least tolerable at 7350. Should the non-sale price be lower? Yes. Should that make the sale price lower? Yes. But at least with the sale it's a discount as it should be even if not as much.

That being said, I still agree with most of the rest that this sort of pricing better be a one-time oops, and the combat tardigrade should still go once per character instead of once per account (retroactive to those who've purchased the pack).

On a similar note I am annoyed that the clothing options are not available as discrete purchases. This is quite aside from my belief that the vest should have been part of the DSC uniform package from the beginning...

Priced at 500 zen they are 50 zen cheaper than other uniforms. They do come with fewer options than usual, but they also come with a single-character Boff as well so it evens out I think.

The Boffs are account wide now. BTW you can do the red/black/white Sarcophagus crew uniforms with the Klingon and the Fed comes with Shenzou comms and Detmer style (but no hair sadly) cybernetic options if you don't want the full helmet.

-A tartigrade pet? why would it follow you around? it's smarter than you are and the mycelium is more important to it than any warzones will ever visit on your ship or on the ground. (this all assumes the mycelial network isn't all destroyed in a few years from now on discovery. It makes no sense).

Ignoring of course that we've had mycelial abilities in the game since the Discovery lock box and tardigrade pets since the launch of AoD. Per the game's own fiction (nevermind any consideration of DSC), it's an extant element of the STO universe.

Anyway, I was 1000 zen shy of the discounted bundle but ended up getting both boffs, two ships (c-store), one fleet ship (via FSM's from T6 reps), and four combat Tardigrades (to hell with being indignant about combat pets in the c-store remaining per-character, I want my battle buddies!) Each was also discounted and in total this was a massive haul for c-store updates which I wasn't expecting for the anniversary (boffs could use more customization options but coupling them with the uniform unlock is quite the package.)

All in all, good show.

Post edited by duncanidaho11 on February 15

Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Last missions:Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
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Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.

Now with everyone patting each other on their collective backs & reconsidering buying this pack because of the starter pack discount & the BOFFs being account wide ... which should've been that way in the first place, Cryptic won't even have to dare add anything more to the pack. It is a step in the right direction because as many have stated it should've been that way in the first place. Starve a person then offer them food & become a hero to that same person.

This is what I'm afraid of as well. Players becoming too easily placated by the merest of scraps the rulers of the land deign to throw at us. The only concessions they've given so far are things that should have been there from the start, the BOff's open account wide and the discount for Discovery Starter Pack owners. They have given us NOTHING new, just presented it in a different light and there are now folks bowing in gratitude for the gristle off the bone they got.

The real issue is value, and this pack doesn't have enough. The price needs to be lowered or more high value items added, and in this case that would be T6 ships. At this current price, 2 more ships for Fed & KDF and the pack might hold enough value to carry that 12k Zen price tag.

Might.

This right here. I've seen this pattern from Cryptic before, along w/ other game studios. And I don't reward bad behavior/practices.

@seaofsorrows I'm not saying be silent. Hell, I agreed with the majority that the BOFFs and Tardigrade should've been account-wide unlocks. I'm glad that the vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change. And don't worry about angering me personally. I do my best to keep any of this forum business from being personal. I just know that some of the stuff being said about Cryptic's marketing lean towards borderline, if not out right, criminal accusations, and that just isn't going to fly in this forum. So, like I was saying, don't like it, don't buy it, but the accusations need to stop. If you don't agree with the way a certain item is being marketed, fine, say something. By all means, speak up. It obviously made a difference here. But we can't go that step further with the over the top accusations, though. That's all I'm saying.

And how would we know what are the "over the top accusations," when it seems like even constructive criticism or questioning is modded out/censored/silenced? What's the standard to measure these by? Should Cryptic not be held responsible and questioned for decisions with say, a silent change/swap to a product that they sold previously, in a way that customers feel the rug pulled from under them? And with no dev willing to really pop in on the forums anymore to face the music, or clear the air on all of this, because they'd rather have/read posts that make them feel good...

And how would we know what are the "over the top accusations," when it seems like even constructive criticism or questioning is modded out/censored/silenced? What's the standard to measure these by? Should Cryptic not be held responsible and questioned for decisions with say, a silent change/swap to a product that they sold previously, in a way that customers feel the rug pulled from under them? And with no dev willing to really pop in on the forums anymore to face the music, or clear the air on all of this, because they'd rather have/read posts that make them feel good...

*Raises hand*

I've raised constructive criticism recently regarding the direction of the current management team on topics that are both further reaching and more intractable than bundle pricing. I wasn't modded out. Why? Because I wasn't making spurious assertions about dev motivations, trustworthiness, or patterns. Please don't undermine this topic by making false equivalency between "censored accusations" and those of us who try earnestly to have a constructive dialog with the devs and a positive impact on the game (and I specifically mean game, as in the functional entity irrespective of our personal interests.)

They aimed a too high with the bundle pricing here. That was revised after feedback with sales and one price adjustment so far. Nuff said there.

I should also note for the "nothing new" crowd that the argument for change RE. the bundle is based on dividing price by content included. A fix would necessarily be lowing that price for what's available to sell, not conjuring new content from the aether to work up to the original price. That's simply setting an unrealistic expectation (see. the process of game design and the real limitations it works under to develop shippable content) so you can remain unsatisfied regardless of what reasonable steps Cryptic takes in response to constructive feedback.

Again, this is a matter of pricing. So what that the specific items vary from other big bundles so long as the requisite zen is rational to bundle pricing for those items.

Post edited by duncanidaho11 on February 15

Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Last missions:Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.

@seaofsorrows I'm not saying be silent. Hell, I agreed with the majority that the BOFFs and Tardigrade should've been account-wide unlocks. I'm glad that the vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change. And don't worry about angering me personally. I do my best to keep any of this forum business from being personal. I just know that some of the stuff being said about Cryptic's marketing lean towards borderline, if not out right, criminal accusations, and that just isn't going to fly in this forum. So, like I was saying, don't like it, don't buy it, but the accusations need to stop. If you don't agree with the way a certain item is being marketed, fine, say something. By all means, speak up. It obviously made a difference here. But we can't go that step further with the over the top accusations, though. That's all I'm saying.

1) we don't know if our "vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change".

2) "And don't worry about angering me personally." I've felt your reasoning when asking about if the new Upgrading now Binding items is a new feature under the patch notes section, which if it is a feature that's where it should be mentioned, only to get the cute animated jail bars from you. "File a bug report." I will & I suggest all affected by it to do so but that's usually a treadmill as well. Not going to worry about your anger nor wrath from my experience your ego suits this duty.

3)"criminal accusations" is your falsehood. Many of us are questioning the marketing tactics & a holding back then giving what was already planned approach is not criminal lol it is a tried & proven technique. It may not be ethical or consumer friendly, but calling that criminal is over the top itself.

4)"It obviously made a difference here." & that is the question whether it did or not, we'll not know, so your best advice of, "don't like it, don't buy it" is spot on but don't conflate criminal activity with any negative dissent just to erase any valid concerns & questions.

I'm positive we all want to support a game we enjoy playing, but possibly being lied to seems to be the trend these days with gaming companies towards their players/customers & we don't want it with STO. Try to engage with the STO community not just control.

-A tartigrade pet? why would it follow you around? it's smarter than you are and the mycelium is more important to it than any warzones will ever visit on your ship or on the ground. (this all assumes the mycelial network isn't all destroyed in a few years from now on discovery. It makes no sense).

Ignoring of course that we've had mycelial abilities in the game since the Discovery lock box and tardigrade pets since the launch of AoD. Per the game's own fiction (nevermind any consideration of DSC), it's an extant element of the STO universe.

Anyway, I was 1000 zen shy of the discounted bundle but ended up getting both boffs, two ships (c-store), one fleet ship (via FSM's from T6 reps), and four combat Tardigrades (to hell with being indignant about combat pets in the c-store remaining per-character, I want my battle buddies!) Each was also discounted and in total this was a massive haul for c-store updates which I wasn't expecting for the anniversary (boffs could use more customization options but coupling them with the uniform unlock is quite the package.)

All in all, good show.

:-( You do realize that supposedly Cryptic is going to make that tardigrade combat pet account wide? This circumstance right here is why it is bad to release an unfinished product with plans already conceived with changing it. If Cryptic does follow-through on their word about making the combat pet account wide I hope they allow you a refund.

:-( You do realize that supposedly Cryptic is going to make that tardigrade combat pet account wide? This circumstance right here is why it is bad to release an unfinished product with plans already conceived with changing it. If Cryptic does follow-through on their word about making the combat pet account wide I hope they allow you a refund.

-Supposedly-

Note that the combat Tardigrade in the c-store is working per the mechanics of combat pets in the c-store. Ie. they are per character.

If they change it, great for future characters of mine. But I'm getting my fun in now and I don't have to wait on the prospect of continuing fan feedback to rewrite precedent per this class of items.

3)"criminal accusations" is your falsehood. Many of us are questioning the marketing tactics & a holding back then giving what was already planned approach is not criminal lol it is a tried & proven technique. It may not be ethical or consumer friendly, but calling that criminal is over the top itself.

Calling a somewhat overpriced bundle of c-store items unethical is over the top (as it directly attributes a disconnect in valuations, something that result from many different factors, to morality per conjecture.) Again, it's just a question of taking the content provided, totaling the price, and applying a discount appropriate per bundle precedent. If there's still a discrepancy, let the math make the argument. You don't need to inflate the imperative through invoking "consumer friendly" principles (as they are far less easily quantified.) That's the best way to establish a continuing case for further updates which can be clearly communicated both to the community team and up through the chain of command to those who make the major business decisions.

Post edited by duncanidaho11 on February 15

Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Last missions:Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
Transcendence, Part 4
Memorial Tour
For the latest Tardigrades and other creative output: @Gorgonops_SSF
Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.