Salvation, Cont.; Conditional Immortality

#159: "So the Adventists teach that when a
person dies, he or she goes into the grave, into non-existence.
But this teaching flies in the face of the Scriptures which clearly state that 'to be absent from
the body is to
be at home with the Lord.' 2 Corinthians 5:8. And when a believer dies he departs and is
with Christ.
Philippians 1:23."—Mark Martin.

#159: Conditional immortality flies in the
face of two Scriptures. Actually, it doesn't, unless we want to say that the
Bible
contradicts itself.

While conditional immortality seems to fly in the face of two
Scriptures, innate immortality, the idea that there is something in us that will
not and cannot die, that not even God can kill, flies in the face of 265 verses found in 158
chapters taken from 35 books of the Bible (see "Immortality: Conditional or Innate?" at
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers).

To illustrate the problem we are faced with, let us look at one concept that Mr. Martin
is trying to drive home, one with which we agree, that
we are saved by faith and not by works. Yet this, it would seem, "flies in the face" of a
passage from James:

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham
our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac
his son upon the altar? . . . Ye see then how that by works a man is
justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified
by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as
the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without
works is dead also. (James 2:20-26)

Yet Paul clearly says in Galatians 2:16 that we are justified by faith apart from works
of the law. Does the Bible contradict itself, or is there
a way to harmonize the two passages? Every Bible-believing Christian should agree that there
must be a way to harmonize James with Paul,
and of course there is.

Mr. Martin has referred to two texts: 2 Corinthians 5:8 and Philippians 1:23.
These must be harmonized with the 265 verses that seem to say
something different. Since it is easier to harmonize two verses with 265 rather than 265 with
two, let us look at the two first.

The context of 2 Corinthians 5:8 gives us an idea of what Paul is talking about:

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a
building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in
the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house
which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall
not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that
we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality
might be swallowed up of life. (2 Cor. 5:1-4)

Paul in these verses longs for the day when he will receive a glorified body, an event
Christians typically identify with the resurrection at
the second coming. He clearly does not want to be a disembodied spirit, for he does not want
to be "naked." Rather, he wants to be clothed upon
with the new body he calls a "house." Now for the next verses:

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto
us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always
confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident,
I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may
be accepted of him. (2 Cor. 5:5-9)

When the time comes for us to be absent from our present body and receive our new
body, we will literally be present with the Lord. There
is nothing [p. 108] necessarily incompatible here with the idea that
the dead await the resurrection in their graves.

Let us look now at the context of Philippians 1:23.

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit
of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am
in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for
you. (Php. 1:21-24)

This passage does appear to put Paul with Christ at death. However, two points should
be noted about both of these passages: 1) Neither
passage says that those who have died are not really dead. 2) Neither passage says that the
dead are conscious. Thus neither passage really
contradicts the following crystal clear verses:

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. (Ps. 115:17)

Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His
breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day
his thoughts perish. (Ps. 146:3, 4)

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have
they any more a reward; for the memory of them is
forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have
they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done
under the sun. . . .

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor
device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou
goest. (Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10)

Thus the Bible teaches that the dead do not praise God, cannot think, and do not know
anything. The fact is that neither 2 Corinthians 5:8
nor Philippians 1:23 contradicts these simple, plain, Bible truths.

Another basic problem with the doctrine of innate immortality is the way the Bible
uses the Greek and Hebrew words for "soul" and "spirit."
There are 157 verses using these words in ways that just don't fit (see "What Is the Soul and
Spirit?" posted at http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers).
For example, when the second
plague is poured out, "every living soul died in the sea" (Rev. 16:3). If souls are immortal
and can't die, why are these souls dying? And why is it said that whales and fish are
"souls"?

265 verses and 157 verses. Some passages are used in both documents, but between
the two, there are a total of 411 different verses cited.

The documentation package under "Point 77" merely gives
photocopies of the two verses Mr. Martin cited. It makes no attempt at all
to explain any of the 411 other Bible verses that indicate that man does not have innate
immortality.