Hello TV Addicts! This is Mike V. of the Lost Addicts Blog among others. This blog covers any TV past, present and future! Look for my recaps/commentary on the latest episodes of Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, archived recaps on Fringe and several others, and weekly open forums on the current episodes of several other favorite shows. Please continue to chime in with your thoughts too!

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Monday, June 27, 2016

Hello friends and welcome to our discussion of the season 6 finale of Game of Thrones! Wow. What a season and what a final 2 episodes directed by Miguel Sapochnik (director of last season's Hardhome). I don't now where this guy came from, but they should definitely get him back. We can nitpick certain scenes and directions of the show, but with a 10.0 rating on IMDB for both episodes he must be doing something right. And I guess we can credit Benioff and Weiss too a little bit! Long held book theories were confirmed (at least for the show and most likely for the book), somewhat shocking events took place, there were emotional moments throughout and it was nail biting all the way to the end. This season may have its detractors, but for not having as much of a blueprint to follow I think it was pretty fantastic. I do question how different the book will go for certain stories (after this episode especially I imagine significantly different), but with the show trying to wrap up the story they have to make certain key decisions. Let's discuss!

Discussion Points

Opening Credits

I mentioned last week to keep an eye out for a sigil change on Winterfell. As expected and to everyone except Bolton fans' relief the Direwolf was back. YES!

Oh and Dorne returned. That could've been a bad thing but the show went all meta with their mistakes and made it kind of fun. We'll get there.

King's Landing

We could break down this 25 minute opening sequence with a microscope and discuss the tension and all of the red herrings in detail. But, you all watched it right? The internet was pretty astute with figuring out what Cersei had planned. And any show watcher that paid attention to key discussions throughout the season may have figured it out. Bran had a vision of wildfire exploding in King's Landing. However, we know Jaime had stopped the Mad King during Robert's Rebellion so it must've been a vision of the future. There were several references to the Mad King throughout the season and how he had stashed Wildfire beneath the city and was going to set the city on fire. And of course, Qyburn referred to the "rumor" which got everyone theorizing or finally assuming they figured it out. The only question that remained was how much would Cersei burn and who would be the casualties.

The filming of this from the music to the cinematography was breathtaking. The focus on the dressing up of Tommen, Sparrow, Margaery and Cersei preparing for the occasion. The setup of the Sept. The entrance of Loras into the Sept. Then the red herrings. They made us think some might escape. Loras confessed. Surely he paid enough with having to join the Faith. Margaery figured out Cersei was up to something when she didn't show. But, the Faith refused to let anyone leave.

Lancel followed one of Qyburn's whisperers into the tunnels under the city to find the wildfire stash. But he got stabbed by the kid and left for dead. Pycelle got lured into a trap by the whisperers and lectured by Qyburn about the change of the guard. Out with the old, in with the new. He was stabbed to death. And I loved the candles sitting in the wildfire puddles that acted almost like a timer on a bomb. I think Lancel may have been able to blow one of those out though. But, maybe he just didn't have the strength in him after crawling across the floor while bleeding to death.

But man, that wildfire explosion was insane! The entire Sept was taken out as well as some innocent bystander homes/buildings outside the sept. The entire thing was viewed by Cersei (with delight) and Tommen (with horror) who was forced to stay in the Red Keep by The Mountain.

Tommen, with no words, removes his crown off camera and then jumps out the window to his death. I had assumed he wouldn't make it past this season, but when he wasn't in the sept with everyone else I thought he might make it a little further. But, I guess the thought of all of those people dying including his beloved Margaery was too much for him to take.

This is a big one folks. RIP: Tommen, Margaery Tyrell, Pycelle, Loras Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, High Sparrow, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Faith Militant, every Septon, Kings Landing common folk. Yikes. For the record, Pycelle and Kevan Lanister didn't survive the books either, but their ending came a little differently. They did happen to coincide with the arrival of Winter, but I won't say anything further in case the show decides to go in that direction with a certain character.

I believe the show was able to get away with all of this murder (and there's still more to come) in one scene, one episode because they're clearing the deck for the end game. The Tyrells and Faith Militant provided intrigue for a couple seasons, but there is no room for them when the Great War in the North heads south. This is one giant example where I think the books will differ. Martin loves his details and I don't think he'll sweep away any long running plots that cleanly. But, it was a visually stunning way to tackle it for the show.

Then the Shame Nun. Somehow Cersei captured her and began torturing her mentally and physically. She brought in the Mountain and promised her a slow death with the sight of Cersei's face at the end. It was the revenge Cersei always promised and she got it.

Obviously, we should be viewing Cersei as a monster now after all the sympathy the show tried to make us feel for her. She did something even the Mad King couldn't pull off and one brother of hers just happened to be out of town when it happened. We'll get to that in a bit though.

Remember all of that theorizing that Margaery had a plan to get out? I guess she truly thought getting out of the mess was through getting Loras to confess and join the Faith. And the discussions she had with Olenna was truly to save her for another storyline. Crazy.

The Twins

Back at the sight of the Red Wedding, Walder Frey toasts to the Lannister and Frey alliance.

Jaime and Bronn have fun banter around women and how they all ogle at Jaime. (one of those women just happened to have a surprise waiting for a future scene though) Jaime was a great wingman though and hooked a brother up.

Walder bragged to Jaime about how he took care of his enemies in the Tullys and the Starks and doesn't care if he did it without dirtying his own hands. He compared himself to Jaime as they are both King Slayers. Jaime refused to be lumped in with him and had no good words to say about Walder or the Freys. He was frustrated that the Freys brought nothing to the alliance and that the Lannister army took care of everything. All true. After that, Jaime walked up and went on the fastest horse race south to King's Landing! (kidding, I know we already know that we need to accept time jumps on this show! It's going to have to be more acceptable in the remaining seasons with less episodes on the docket whenever that's confirmed.)

After the celebration had ended, Walder remained in the main hall with his servant girl. Of course, he hits on her. Once I saw a pie being delivered to Mr. Frey I knew exactly what it was. It all went down differently in the books, but Frey Pies certainly were cooked up there too! I don't remember the names of the Freys that were at Riverrun, but I assume they are the 2 that were chopped up into that pie. The servant girl removed her face and it was none other than ARYA STARK!! "My name is Arya Stark. I want you to know that. The last thing your'e ever going to see is a Stark smiling down on you as you die." She then slits Walder Frey's throat just like Catelyn's throat was slit. Revenge is a dish of pie best served with bits of Frey in it I guess!

Pretty awesome scene, though it's probably a little disappointing for some book readers. I'm still afraid to discuss the absence of another character in case they for some reason still introduces it. But, this was basically the nail in the coffin for another Riverrun Frey Revenge plot from the books. I had been teasing it all season as it seemed like a done deal with the reintroduction of the Brotherhood, Brienne returning to the Riverlands, Jaime being in the Riverlands, etc... But, it truly seems like the show will go in another direction since all of the Freys we truly wanted revenge on have met their end. Again this seems like clearing the deck for the end game.

OLDTOWN

After a lot of off scene traveling Sam and Gilly finally reach their destination. The shot of Oldtown was pretty stunning. It reminded me a little bit of Gondor in Lord of the Rings. Though this city was by the water with a giant Citadel as a centerpiece.

We see thousands of white ravens leaving the Citadel as Sam and Gilly look on. Book readers would know what this is, but we would learn later that this signifies the start of winter. The maesters announce the change of each season by sending the ravens across the 7 Kingdoms.

The scene in the citadel with the book keeper was pretty hilarious. The maester was sizing Sam up and very by the book. The book still had Jeor Mormont as Lord Commander and Maester Aemon as the maester at Castle Black. Sam spoke to all of the circumstances that led to the Citadel not being updated on the situation. The book keeper mentioned that the Archmaester will need to discuss the irregularities. Sam has access to the library in the meantime, but had to comically leave Gilly and Little Sam to awkwardly wait outside.

But, what a shot of that library. For a man that loves books we couldn't help but feel a little happy for Sam to be in his MECCA of all MECCAs. It was breathtaking. I can't take credit for observing this, but it appeared that some of the items hanging from the ceiling looked like astrolabes which mirror the one that crosses the map in the opening credits of every episode.

So, out of the millions of books in that library we have to assume Sam is going to find something that will be key in stopping the White Walkers, right? He better find it quick. There's only 13 episodes over 2 years left!

Winterfell

We follow the White Raven to Winterfell (nice transition!)

When I pictured Davos confronting Melissandre I didn't picture it in front of Jon Snow, but it indeed is how it happened. It was pretty emotionally charged as it should be. Mel confessed to burning Shireen at the stake and gave her excuses why she did it. She blamed Stannis and Selyse as well as they also thought it was the last chance they had. Melissandre admitted to being wrong about Stannis being the prince who was promised. Davos requested her execution. Mel said she's been ready to die for many years but the Lord of Light still has a need for her.

Instead of execution, Jon orders her to ride south and never return to the North or she'll be hanged as a murderer. Davos added that he'd kill her himself if she returns.

While I don't agree with what Melissandre did it's still an interesting decision for the show. She raised Jon from the dead, the White Walkers are coming and she's fleeing? Hmmm, I wonder if she'll run into a certain Mother of Dragons and start cooking up a new prophecy? Either that, or she'll run into Arya as she did promise her she'd meet her again.

As Jon watches Melissandre leave Sansa joins him. Jon was preparing Ned/Catelyn's bed chamber for Sansa as he says he's not a Stark. Sansa says that he is to her. Awwwww. And don't worry we get further confirmation later! (finally!)

We also finally get some confessions/apologies from the 2 sorta siblings/cousins. Jon asked if she trusted Littlefinger. She pretty much said no. She then apologized for not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale. She doesn't say WHY she didn't tell him, but she apologized for not telling him. I'd have to watch the scene with Brienne from earlier in the season. I think she questions her on it, I just forget if she gave a decent answer. I still maintain it mainly served the plot to have a "surprise" savior in the battle. But, their reconciliation was pretty sweet with Jon saying they can't fight amongst themselves. I loved their exchange of the White Raven showing up. It was almost something we can all laugh at because we've been saying Winter is Coming for 5 years now. "Well, Father always promised didn't he?" Good times. Good times.

Littlefinger and Sansa met later in the godswood. Littlefinger once again professes his love for Sansa, but goes a step further to declare his true intentions. He will not stop until he sits on the Iron Throne with her by his side. He moved in for a kiss, but Sansa pushes him away. Littlefinger tried to put some thoughts into Sansa's ear that she should be the Lady of House Stark. A true born heir to Ned and Catelyn. Not some motherless bastard born in the South. Of course, this was a setup for finally confirming a running theory in the books and show that has been brewing since 1990.

We'll get to all of the big conclusions for certain plots at the end!

Dorne

Well, we knew we had to go back at some point, right? They did show us them in the premiere so it was only fitting we went back in the finale. But, this time we had a Queen of Thorns in mourning for her entire family and she was more bitter than ever! Any time a sand snake talked she shut them up. She called Obara, Barbara and said she looked like an angry little boy. It was fantastic and it was obviously a meta commentary on the much reviled Dorne plot. So, she pretty much said "shut up and let me and the actress from the HBO show Rome that we used to respect speak!"

Ellaria Sand spoke of how they need to unite against the Lannisters for survival, but then admitted to using the wrong choice of words. Olenna does not want to survive, she wants cold blooded revenge on Cersei. Enter Varys who promises Fire and Blood. This was the safe bet to guess where Varys had gone. Dorne geologically makes sense for where Dany would land in Westeros. This gets closer to the point of even having Dorne in the show plot anyway as their main goal was to form an alliance with the return of the Targaryan dynasty. (I usually don't talk about our commenters in the recap but I can already predict a heavy "girl power" discussion in our comment thread. Dany, Yara, Queen of Thornes, Ellaria Sand, Sand Snakes taking on Cersei Lannister to kick things off? Yep, no way to avoid that discussion!)

Quick Varys, call the Enterprise and have them beam you to Meereen for your next scene! (I just can't help myself)

Meereen

Time to clean up affairs in Meereen. Finally! On Tyrion's advice Dany has to break things off with Daario and not bring him to the 7 Kingdoms with her. Daario professed his love for her. He didn't care if she married he just wanted to be with her. She requested the Second Sons to keep the peace in Meereen and on the Bay of Dragons (nice rename from Slaver's Bay) until the cities elect their officials.

Tyrion then failed in attempts to try and console Dany. Then he spoke in meta terms as well when he said, "this is actually happening." She finally has her army, she has her grown dragons, she had dealt with Meereen and can head West to do what she always wanted to do. Dany admitted to being afraid of what's to come to which Tyrion says is good. Only crazy people like her Father feared nothing. But, Dany is also scared about feeling nothing when she broke it off with Daario. Perhaps she fears that it's in her blood to go mad like Aerys did.

But the culmination of this scene when Tyrion admitted to being turned into a believer and promises to serve Dany until the end of her days had me swelling with emotion. And when she had a pin made to dub him Hand of the Queen. Well, it was awesome!

North of the Wall / Tower of Joy

Benjen got Meera and Bran to the weirwood tree just North of the Wall. He says he has to leave them here and continue the fight against the dead as long as he can. Finally confirming something that had been rumored in the books and theorized on the show there are strong ancient spells at work on The Wall that will not allow the dead through. As long as it stands the dead cannot pass. I guess that one wight got through because Jon and Sam brought it with them in season 1. This confirms another long running theory that we're probably going to have to see this wall crumble to the ground before the end of the show/series. I really thought it would happen as the final shot of this season. But, maybe there's still more story to tell before that happens based on the setup at the end of this episode.

Before Bran put his hand on the weirwood, again I felt as if Meera was speaking to the fans of the show. I had butterflies in my stomach as I knew what was coming. "Are you sure you're ready for this?" Bran said he's the 3 eyed raven and has to be ready. Let's do this! TOWER OF JOY BABY!!!

No, it's not a tease. Ned Stark, followed by Bran is entering the Tower to find Lyanna Stark lying in a bed full of blood. Let's rewind for a second. Lyanna Stark is the sister of Ned Stark. She was promised to Robert Baratheon to be married. Rhaegar Targaryan (Dany's often praised older brother of being the most harmless and sweetest man to live) allegedly kidnapped and raped Llyana Stark. What followed was Robert's Rebellion against the Rhaegar and his father The Mad King. Rhaegar was killed by Robert on the field at the Battle of the Trident. King's Landing was sacked by Tywin Lannister, Jaime killed the Mad King and Robert was crowned King of the 7 Kingdoms. Oh and Ned Stark's father and brothers were killed by the Mad King too. Ned went South to Dorne to find his sister who was guarded by Rhaegar's most trusted friend and finest knight, Ser Arthur Dayne. Ned defeated Dayne with the help of Howland Reed (Jojen and Meera's father) and then entered the Tower of Joy. Now we're all caught up.

In the first book entitled Game of Thrones we are treated to Ned Stark's thoughts in the dungeon while he awaits his execution. He remembers his sister's final words, "Promise Me Ned." We always thought we knew what this meant. And clues unraveled throughout the other books. We see Llyana here dying and afraid. And we hear her say these immortal words to her brother. But we get a couple other whispered fragments of sentences. The key ones being, "if Robert finds out, he'll kill him. You know this. Promise me Ned. Promise Me."

Then, we see him. A male child, brooding from the womb. Ladies and gentlemen, you know him as one Jon Snow. Son of Llyana Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan. A true song of ICE and FIRE. R+L = J folks! It's confirmed! In one shot, an honorable man with one blemish on his record is redeemed as an honorable man with NO blemishes on his record. And another man is bestowed with a legacy that promises he has a large role to play in how this story wraps up. And it's the biggest reason we knew that Jon Snow would not stay dead forever!

So, what does this mean? Well, some argue that Jon is still a bastard. Rhaegar Targaryan was already married so if he fathered another child it technically is a Bastard. Maybe he'd be Jon Stone (of Dragonstone). BUT....small little thing I forgot. Targaryans are known for polygamy. There is a history of them taking multiple wives. I have long been of the theory that Rhaegar and Llyana Stark were in love and fled together. There was no kidnapping involved. Perhaps it was more. Perhaps they eloped. Maybe they knew she was pregnant which is why they had to flee. For the sake of the survival of their unborn son. If any of this is true then Jon Snow would have the best claim to the Iron Throne even more than his Aunt Dany.

But the fact that he has Dragon Blood and Blood of the North in him makes him truly important in the larger events to come. The saga is called the song of Ice and Fire and he has the makeup of both in him. Exciting times are afoot people!

The Final Scenes

At Winterfell, Jon speaks to the houses about the great threat to come. There are complaints about wildlings and bastards and what not. But then, badass awesomeness Lyanna Mormont speaks. Every scene she was in this season she absolutely stole. She called out all the houses that didn't stand behind the Starks. Then she spoke about how the Mormonts did. The North Remembers. "I don't care if he's a bastard. Ned Stark's blood runs in his veins." One by one all the houses apologized for not joining Jon on the field of battle and then pledged their allegiance to him. Before we knew it they were all calling for the WHITE WOLF to be the King in the North! Young Snow avenged the Red Wedding! Very emotionally rousing and reminiscent of when the same happened to Robb Stark. I think I got the most welled up when Davos joined in on the chants. Sansa smiled through the whole thing until she looked at Littlefinger who was not pleased. A fight for another day!

At King's Landing, Jaime and Bronn get off the high speed rail to see a city on fire. Jaime looks horrified. He comes into the throne room at the Red Keep to see Cersei being crowned Queen of the Andals and First Men and protector of the 7 Kingdoms. WHAAT!?!? Is that even legal? I did wonder who was possibly left to take the throne, but Cersei? Obviously, this is probably meant to be temporary and it sets up a conflict with Dany and Dorne where we know who we'll be rooting for. But, there seems to be another conflict brewing. Jaime, if you recall, wanted to stop the last person who wanted to set the city on fire with Wildfire. He just conveniently was absent from the city when it happened this time? He did not look pleased with his sister and perhaps he received an awakening. Of course, he must've also processed that his last child was dead as well. Cersei's prophecy has come true. There was more to the prophecy in the books, but I'll leave that for another day.

The final shot of the season was of a massive fleet of ships heading West. We see Theon and Yara on a ship. We see Grey Worm and the unsullied on another. We see Horses and Dothraki on another. We see 3 dragons flying above. And the final ship we see leads the fleet. Varys, Tyrion, Missendi and Danaerys Targaryan heading to what we assume is the Southernmost point in Westeros, Dorne. She's finally coming!!!

Wow, what a jammed packed finale folks! It was pretty amazing. I'm sure there will be some criticism in our comments as there usually is, but for the most part this finale and this season delivered the goods. Fans rating these episodes as highly as they did seems to indicate that pretty well. Absent from this finale was Brienne, The Hound and the Brotherhood. So, we can assume to catch up with them early next season. Now that I cast my book hopes aside it would truly seem like the Brotherhood will go North to help with the fight. We shall see.

It's been fun discussing another season of Thrones with everyone and I will plan to do the same for the remainder of the series! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next year!

81 comments:

MJ
said...

OMG ! DId NOT see it coming that Arya was in a mask as that serving wench ! And Bron assuming when she was staring at Jamie that it was for another reason ! LOL

Cersie - knew she would not go quietly but damn ! Did not realize that under the Sept was where all the family crypts were. So if Small council there she killed her uncle and destroyed all her family tombs.

Tommen - poor Tommen. And now Cersei does see that prophecy almost come true - Tommen is not buried in gold cloth - but all her kids are gone.

Jamie's face at the end - she definitely will be the death of him

Heard all the fans boys squealing with delight last night when Lyana finally reveals that Jon is and Stark and Targaeryn. Who knows the rules - does he get the throne over Dany then? She is daughter to king - he is grandchild to king but is a man. Hmmmm

Loved little girl Mormon shaming all those lords ! And Baelish's face when Jon was dubbed King of the North was priceless.

So, it had some good stuff in it and I'll just reference those first.1. Confirmation of Jon Snow's heritage. This was really a big pay off for book readers and can't be under estimated as to its' importance. I loved how they did the eyes.2. Arya killing the Frey's. That was actually a surprise, one of the few and it was great.3 Cersei taking out the Sept. I was surprised that Margery died and Tommen lived. I was actually cheering for her. 4. Tommen's suicide--was a shocker.5. Loved the Mountain vs Shame Nunn. Actually that scene with Cersei and Shame was revealing as to how crazy Cersei is. I had hopes for her, but I think she's a goner.6. Jamie's disapproving look to Cersei.7. The naming of Dragon's Bay for Mereen. Richard

The distance from Mereen to Dorne is about the same as from Winterfell to Dorne!!! Varys being in final scene with Dany was just too much to buy.

I found the Dany/Tyrion/Daario stuff to be overly formulaic and predictible. It was weak while trying to be emotionally rewarding. I call it=---ick. Actually I felt sorry for Dinklage being asked to do something as such a cliche.

BTW, you owe me props now on the Euron attack. IE, the alliance made no sense because they had to go fight Euron in Westeros. Just another nonsensical contrivance.

Speaking of nonsense, how about that alliance between Tyrrell's and Dorne. The Tyrrell's have no real beef with the Lanisters. It's Cersei who is the old lady's problem. Seems like a contrivance to have another battle with the Lanisters. Thing is, I wonder if Jamie will fight for Cersei now.

The scene where Sansa apologizes for not telling Jon about the help was extremely weak. It totally dismisses the many lives that were lost, etc. No justification either. Very weak.

Melissandre being sent South was crazy weak. All who were watching were going, what. OF course everyone knows that's because we'll see her later--lol. Which makes the whole banishment thing a complete FARCE! Again, no real respect for those who died and represents no real world behavior.

Before I read and respond to comments I forgot a couple things to mention in the blog.

Cersei confessed! She confessed everything but it was confirmed that she killed her husband. We assumed, but it was never confirmed that the wine was poison. (or that Lancel was getting him drunk on purpose to get killed)

Dany might marry someone for an alliance - Thoughts on suitors? Jon's her nephew, Bran is a cripple, Yara is into girls but she's already allied with her, All dornish men are dead, JAIME LANNISTER??? seems far fetched but if we wants to distance himself from Cersei...maybe??? I dunno. There aren't many men left that are main characters.

Bran - So the wall didn't come down this season....but is Bran still going to head south of the wall? if he does will it lose its magic causing the wall to crumble? Or will his greenseeing cause that if he gets caught by Night King again? And how will he get south with just meera. I guess they have the sled or whatever. lol Not sure he wants to stay plugged into that tree forever, plus he needs to get to Jon now.

I didn't see Arya coming either...and I even was thinking it would happen earlier in the season. She mentioned Walder Frey was on her list and I theorized that had to be for a reason. He wasn't on the shorter list last year where they specifically called out the knight she killed.

Tommen - Good point on the gold cloth. Yep they're all gone. Like I mentioned in the recap...there's more to the prophecy in the book but maybe it's too revealing if the show ends up going that way.

Jaime - If not the other way around!! He's not a fan of burning cities....though he did say he would burn the whole world down just to be with her...so who knows??

I discuss a little bit about the possible line of succession in the recap. It all depends on if he's a bastard or not. My guess is this makes him legit. As Lonestar said in Spaceballs..."I'm an honest to god prince!" lol

The Mormont stuff this season was fantastic. I have a feeling they'll bring her back next year for more stuff.

@Richard1. The eyes were a good time. and yes...great stuff!2. Yep...agreed. Like i mentioned in my comment to MJ...we actually discussed it in the blog but then I forgot about it by the time we started theorizing about LS's return. lol3. I really thought Margaery might make it out, but nope!4. Tommen's suicide was crazy. If you sit back and think about it (as we had previously) we assumed Tommen had to die soon....but once he survived the sept explosion...i thought he might make it longer. 5. Oh Cersei was always destined to be a goner. Even Lena Heady thinks it's Tyrion or Arya that'll kill her. I'd add one more potential to the list. 6. Speaking of....yep disapproving indeed. Game changing look some might say. 7. Yeah that was a nice touch with the renaming.

You're welcome on the recaps!

Like I've mentioned and the writers have mentioned countless times this season...you just kinda gotta go with the time jumps. It happens on every show...and with one on this scale you just have to assume time has passed. But yeah it led to my joke about Varys getting the enterprise to beam him back to Meereen for his voyage to Dorne. lol Dorne is the closest point to Meereen than any other point in Westeros though. But still far.

I think you might overuse that predictable word. Did we really predict that Daario wouldn't go to Westeros? I didn't see that coming at all. In fact, I never really even thought about it. I thought when Tyrion became hand of the queen it was very emotionally rewarding. That said...Dany and Tyrion really haven't shared the screen that much, but she must've respected how he defended the city in her absence. But Tyrion believing in Dany? Also seems a little fast. But she did fly a dragon twice and he is fascinated by dragons. lol

Euron - Well now I assume they'll all meet in Blackwater bay in King's Landing now....why do I owe you props? Varys went for alliances and ships too. So I guess Varys came back with the additional ships dany needed to head West. It was in the previously on clear as day. The alliance makes perfect sense. Dany had ships from the greyjoys to head west and she promised to take on Euron at some point too. We just didn't consider ships from Dorne at the time. And actually I didn't even think about it more until you brought this up. lol

Sansa/Jon apology. I agree. Not much more I can say about it. At least they addressed it, but they totally copped out on WHY she didn't tell him. I'll get over it though.

Mel going South - As I mentioned in the recap...I'm sure this will tie the loose thread of her telling Arya they'll see each other again...and perhaps she'll even meet Dany. We'll see. It was a little bizarre though I agree.

Great questions and points on Dany. I might offer the Night King as an option. I'm still not ruling out Yara-lol. At one point, I thought about Tyrion but with him as the hand now, I don't see it. Petyr might be available-lol. But, your idea of Jaime would be very interesting. I hadn't thought of that. He's got the most powerful army in Westeros and has now proven himself a real leader. Something that very few are doing so even now.

BTW, what happened to all the KL and Lannister money problems. Did they just magically go away. Seems stupid that nothing is ever mentioned about them now. Without money you can't pay your army and they made a deal about Jaime(Lannisters) having the biggest army.

I didn't expect the wall to come down this season but Bran going South helping it fall would be an interesting thought. His green seeing should alert the Night King and so they've got to move on. When Ben took the horse I was kind of surprised.

When young Ned was going up the TOJ he seemed to sense Bran. I'm suspecting that Bran will communicate with Sansa or some other Stark so that he can be rescued.

13 eps left over TWO years. BTW, producing those over 2 years is more expensive than a single year. It's just the reality of business.

Hey - Winter is finally freaking here ! Yay ! Agree with clearing the deck - sure is a lot of characters gone now - but obviously they have no bearing on the end game so I am fine with it. I've had no issues with the season - was just a little let down by that one episode.

That was some library at the Citidel ! I also thought of Lord of the Rings !

Any one see the thing online with Tommen jumping and the heading is: GofT fans on monday after a finale. Too funny

Yeah - as soon as the kid lead the follower down a cave i had an inkling about wildfire - but kept saying to myself - no way ! But what was the big rumor that her and Qyborn talked of ? Surely not that Wildfire was stached beneath the city ? If it was beneath the whole city then more of it would have exploded afterall. But those barrels did look pretty old.

Pycelle - why kill him ? I can't recall that he was specifically an enemy of the Lannisters ?

Nun - that is the one thing that I think Cersei is right in doing. That woman enjoyed Cersei's humiiation for sure ! Personally the show never did make me feel sorry for Cersei - she was the cause of alot of pain an grief for herself and others. But I give her her due - Lannisters always pay their debts. And she does have some cause for wanting revenge. But damn ! LOL

Arya - nope - did not pick up on the pie either. She stated that his sons were there (meaning in the pie) - mentioned one by name - black something.

Melisandre - yeah - I wanted her killed ! LOL But yeah - doubt we are done with her yet.

More expensive in the short run, but they can sell more Blu Rays, get more subscribers and promote more shows over 2 years than in just one year. It's the reality of business. And like I said...I think 2 years worth of budget with less episodes allows them to do more visually impressive scenery which will be warranted for the end game. I'm not sure why you won't acknowledge that part! lol I'm not happy about there being less episodes per season...but I am happy we still have 2 seasons to look forward to. I'm sure they will be complete thematic thoughts from start to finish each season like they have done in the past. It's not like it will just cut off in episode 7 next season with no resolution to what was set up that season. But again..... ME <------ Optimist lol

Dany - LOL on the Night King. I don't think you're 100% joking, but I'm not sure about it! Of course that would also be another tale of Ice and fire. lol Yeah...I thought Tyrion as well, but agree as hand probably not. Baelish...forgot about him. Good point. Jaime might have the Lannister army behind him so aligning with Dany might take away Cersei's power. But...you see I think the long game here. Eventually I feel like Dany, the Starks and some of the Lannisters (Jaime/Tyrion) will all be on the same side fighting the dead. So, if Dany adds to her army it could only help things. As long as Sam can figure out a way to arm everyone! lol

Money problems - I've listened to podcasts where they assume this stuff will come back to haunt them eventually. I don't know...i think the fact that Braavos funded Stannis and co was meant to settle the debt with the Realm owing money. The lannisters being broke was never really the direct issue. It was that the Crown was in severe debt...there just happened to be a bunch of Lannisters in office around the issue. It was Robert Baratheon that helped cause the debt. Anyway....in a world where they're able to dot all i's and cross all t's you're right...they need to focus time on that loose plot thread....but I don't really think they will. There are bigger concerns. Same thing happened with LOST. They couldn't focus on all of the 100s of mysteries they introduced. So when it came to the end they had to focus on the big ones that tied MOST of the show together. (I can come up with reasonable explanations for the rest)

I think the greenseeing will only alert the night king if he sees him in the dream. I could be wrong though. lol on Benjen taking the horse. I guess they were close enough to the wall that they might not need it. Bran will probably assume Jon is at Castle black too. Maybe Edd will get him to Winterfell somehow. Or at least send a raven to Jon. These days they could just hop on a train and be in Dorne by mid-day. :)

TOJ and Sensing Bran - That was continuation from the last part of the scene we saw. Remember Bran called out to him and Ned seemed to hear it. We rejoined the scene in the same spot. But when he turned around he saw nothing. But yes..he certainly can communicate through the trees to get help. Not sure if that's how it will go down but it's an option!

Hoping Jamie leaves Cersei when it is time and joins the bigger army to fight the walkers. Cause that is what the future is all about - they can fight over the throne all they want - in the end they will all have to work together to fight the real threat.

Oh Richard - we have all gotten over the 'fringing' of time it takes to get from one place to another. They only do 10 episodes. Do you really want to wait 4 episodes for a character to get from one place to another ? I think not. I just go with it - I don't need to waste precious time with characters traveling from one place to another.

The one episode that turned into Terminator 2 in Braavos? lol Yeah in hindsight it was a little silly. But man those last 2 episodes were amazing with a few complaints.

Citidel - Yes!! :)

LOL I didn't see the meme for GoT fans...that's hilarious. I did see a funny GIF on Reddit. Jaime returns to King's Landing, "so...what did I miss?" They linked to a GIF from community where Troy came in with Pizzas all smiles turned to fright and the rest of his friends are killing each other with flames surrounding them. I forget the context of the episode but it was hysterical. Someone superimposed Jaime's head instead of Troy's and turned all the fire green in very quick fashion too. lol People are really creative out there and have way too much time on their hands!

The Rumor - Yes it was of the Wildfire. Everyone always talked about the Mad King having cache's of Wildfire stashed across the city. apparently, no one ever found it. Qyburn's little birds found it. I think they only lit the part under the sept. I don't know if they piled ALL of it in one place or if they just lit the stuff that WAS under the sept.

Pycelle - He may have not allowed for Cersei to become Queen of the Realm. Even Qyburn talked to how he personally had nothing against him but they have to go out with the old. I don't think Cersei in particular liked Pycelle...plus he screwed up with Tyrion resulting in Myrcella being sent to Dorne...maybe Cersei held a grudge for that even if it was her fault for playing into Tyrion's game too. It all happened because Pycelle ratted Tyrion out TO Cersei. Again...I think it was mainly just clearing the deck. The justification was a little weak. He does die in the books though...just differently. Can't really get into it (just in case)

Nun - Oh yeah...as horrible as Cersei is, I did enjoy her getting her revenge on the nun. lol I know you guys always said you never felt sympathy for Cersei (maybe not Richard...he was rooting for a happy ending for Cersei and Jaime lol). I still think the show tried.

The Pie - you wouldn't have picked up on that. That was mainly there for book fans who loved the Frey Pie stuff. It wasn't even Walder who ate it in the books...just some other Freys eating Freys. It was North revenge. Lord Manderly was involved (who was at Winterfell this episode) Black Walder was one of the 2 dudes in the pie...and I think they were the ones at Riverrun this season. Makes sense. One of them admitted to slicing Cat's throat so she got hers!

What Rob is still alive to kill Cersei? lol Agree that Sansa makes sense to do it. But Cersei is on Arya's list.

I think Jaime will...but we'll see wha thappens. Agreed..working together is how this has to end. The fallout from the battle with the white walkers will be interesting as well. I'm guessing it ends with a "broken wheel" and not so rigid family structure to who has the throne. We'll see!

lol on the FRINGING of time! That's why I say it'll only get worse in the next seasons.

I haven't read any real negatives either. Sapochnik is the highest rated director of Game of Thrones of all time. 2 10 out of 10s and Hardhome is really high up there too.

Maergary - meant to say - thought she would live too. She had a plan to get out from under but her plan included taking her brother with her. So she got got. But she def would have made it out from under the Sparrow if not for Cersei.

Oleanna would be a good candidate to kill Cersei too - but she's too old to be at any battle coming.

Cersei--the witch told us who would kill Cersei. At least she gave a description. I'm thinking Tyrion or Jaime. But, yes I was hoping that was one of the storylines that would end up changing even though mentioned in the TV show. I mean, Tommen wasn't in gold.

I'm ok with some fringing on time. But, the thing with Varys was outrageous and that much of a stretch makes the show comical nonsense.

I think Jamie will leave Cersei.

I find it interesting that people are wondering about how they're going to battle the White Walkers while I'm more interested in how to kill the dragons and stop Dany.

I'll bet they finish most of the show in 1 more years' production. It won't be a full 2 year schedule for 13 eps, not even close. It's about cutting costs and maximizing revenue so as to maximize profits. Which I'm all about it in my biz. I just don't like how it's dragging things out. I don't like how they're doing it with Hell on Wheels and didn't like it with other shows. At least I'm consistent.

Yeah definitely a red herring with Margaery. Reading an interview with her apparently she was trying to get out of contract last year to do a movie, but they told her one more year. lol

Olenna - Good point!

SUCCESSION and Women Can't Rule - Well apparently the show doesn't care because Cersei is queen now. I just read something though....for Lords of houses it goes by trueborn male heirs first then the women. So maybe it's the same for the throne. So she could theoretically be the next person in line. You would think Jaime would be first though since he's no longer king's guard. But yes...if Jon isn't a bastard he is the rightful heir to the throne.

Yeah...I could see that happening with out you laid it out, but seems a little too Clean for Game of Thrones right? This season definitely succeeded in fan service. Rewarding fans with stuff we actually wanted. Martin always said the ending will be bittersweet. So, we'll see!

Yeah...I was thinking the same...Jon may not survive the battle against the walkers/night king, but surely he'll significantly help with defeating them.

@Richard

Cersei - The witch did not say that much in the show, only in the books I responded to your comment in last week's thread when you asked and I mentioned i repeatedly in this recap/comments too. It's book talk to say any further.

Varys/Timing - I think it was necessary to show that she had enough ships to head West. We have to assume some ships are from Dorne. It's feasible to think in that that final scene happened some time after the meereen battle. Dany got things in order in meereen off screen, Dany and Tyrion bonded more...and then they were ready to ship off. But yes...it was the first time we've seen someone in 2 distant locations in one ep. Not true actually...earlier this season with Jon traveling to the various houses to recruit for the battle....that was a clear precursor.

Walkers/Dragons - I always just assumed the Dragons will help in the fight against the walkers. But, it seems pretty clear now that the dragons will scorch the Red Keep to fulfill Dany's vision.

Production - You could be right and it has been done in the past with things like Mad Men...but I don't think so with this. Breaking Bad split their season in half but treated it as 2 separate entities (that worked together). They even wrote the first half and filmed it in one year and did the 2nd half in the next year. And it was amazing. They haven't even confirmed what they're doing with Thrones yet. It's all just rumored. I don't think you understand (and I've been trying to explain for 6 seasons) how much production goes into making 1 episode of Game of Thrones let alone 10 in a year's time. They have crews all over the world, crazy filming locations, effects budgets, extras, costume design, set design, etc.... To film battle of the bastards it took 5 times as long as a normal episode of thrones. If there are big battles to come in the final 2 seasons I can imagine having extra time to film them to be a bonus. They aren't going to squeeze in 13 episodes as fast as they can. That just doesn't make sense with the caliber show this is. it IS the most popular show on television. (last episode had 23 million viewers across all platforms)

You don't need to copy/paste the props...I know what you're talking about. I'm just saying the way they did it works. They didn't need Euron's ships. They got Dorne's. It's why varys left. We talked about the fight coming to Meereen...but that didn't need to happen. Yara still needs Dany's help in taking out Euron in Westeros too.

*****SPEC******

As I mentioned in the recap...neither do I. Seems pretty much done. The Freys are off the table. No reason to bring her in now.

Cersei is queen right now cause she took it and everyone is afraid of her. No one gave it to her or wants to try to stop her in Kings Landing at this time. At best she is a placeholder for the family to remain in power - the Baratheon family. Jamie ? He's a Lannister - not in the line at all I think. Cersei is at least a Baratheon by marriage.

Since Jon is a Targaeryn do we suppose he could have some talents with fire and dragons ? Hmmm.

What culd be bittersweet would be for someone who does not want the throne to get stuck with it. LIke ..... Tyrion ? LOL I think all the evil-doers will get their comuppence and someone who does not want all that power and authority will be forced to take it.

MJ, you're closer to right I think. Cersei was named FIRST of her name. She was crowned a Lanister. She took the thrown the old fashion way--by force. Ultimately force(including alliances) wins the crown.

Most won't be happy but we didn't see the fallout except for Jamie. She's in a dream world. We know Jon/Sansa won't support her and most of everyone else is gone. It's just too obvious(is that better than predictable--and yes Daario was predictable to me anyway) that Dany will end up taking out Cersei one way or the other. The thing is from Dorne, it's not far to KL, especially with the warp drives they have these days.

I'm thinking some people we want to live will end up dying, that's my bittersweet thoughts anyway. But, really, there are few left that I really pull for. So for me, I'm not as invested in who survives-lol.

Hmmm...yeah i didn't think about it. She was crowned Cersei Lannister wasn't she? I'll have to rewatch the scene...and of course keep an eye on King's landing in the opening credits next year to see if they replace the stag with the lion. but you're both right....brute force won the crown.

Not sure about Jon's talent...but he was at least important enough to be resurrected if we believe there are actual gods at play. But even Dany's "talent" in the books isn't as pronounced is it is in the show. She doesn't have a super power. There was something about the combination of being in the fire with the dragon eggs that allowed her to survive the fire. The show turned it into a super power...so no telling if they'll give Jon special powers or just the magical sword. lol

Someone not wanting the throne -> Like Hurley taking over the Island? lol You're right...something like that could happen. Of course, GRRM hated the LOST ending, but it probably wasn't that part of the ending he disliked.

Obvious with Dany....it was Obvious that dany was going to come to Westeros. So anything she does to gain the 7 kingdoms is going to be a bit obvious don't you think? And if she travels to Dorne she has nowhere to go but North. I don't think anyone will be marching south to face Cersei. (like huge armies)...we've been there done that and don't have the time for that. The big threat is from the North...so I could see Dany heading through King's Landing and possibly keep going. Or the threat from the North will head south. I really don't know how that's all going to go. Like will the Walkers destroy winterfell and keep marching south?? Or will the south never be invaded? Those are the big questions for me. Who has the iron throne BEFORE the white walker invasion is of no real significance to me unless it's Dany and she leads forces to war to save the kingdom.

I think it'll be a mix of people we expect to die and don't want to die...but surely someone we like will be standing in the end. There will be a surviving Stark. There has to be. All of them? Maybe not. I could see Jaime dying in some heroic fashion. I see Tyrion surviving...like MJ said in some way helping to rule. The Starks...I could see any of them surviving or dying but not all of them! Dany's a big question mark too. If she has the throne I don't necessarily think she'll keep it, but I have to think she'd sacrifice herself for the greater good. I think all these hints of her being a villain aren't going to fully come to fruition...more of just the conflict within her. Kind of like Luke being tempted by the dark side but overcoming it where his father did not. (Dany/Aerys)

The irony of that is that Jon Snow is really the Luke Skywalker of this story...I guess there could be 2 of them though. One Fire, one Ice. (or one BOTH! lol) :)

LOL on the North--I have pointed out several times that there's really only a couple of houses left in all of Westeros(Vale and Lanisters). They're mostly gone/defeated, even the Starks are tiny when you take away the Wildlings. Many men have died. So, not a lot of bodies to throw at Dany nor the white walkers.

Dany will be by definition an invader. The last several eps made it very clear that she wants to take over WEsteros, to rule it all. That includes the Starks by definition. They will come under her thumb and may or may not like it. I'm thinking after the Dornish love in--lol--ie Dorne girls, Yara, Dany and Oleanna that their move North will be a question. For one, does Dany go straight North and take on KL or does she go to the Iron Islands and help Yara steal the crown. If the show maintains some semblance of reality(which I question) then the Ironborne aren't going to take kindly to Yara's attempt to undo their vote. Point being that could take up some time unless it's just ignored--which may just happen as contrivances abound lately.

At some point, Dany will head North though. But NOT, I repeat NOT to battle against the White Walkers. She's all about herself and her objectives. Much like Tywin or any other conquerer. It will be a different path if she helps Yara first.

My thoughts are that Dany won't really be aware of the threat from the North until something big happens and the ravens fly. Maybe Winterfell falls again?

In some ways, I could see Dany not getting involved until she is attacked. Why would she, the white walkers could help her defeat those she wants to defeat. And given the map, I'm thinking maybe around Riverrun/the Twins or so.

So, continuing what is probably a waste of time with conjecture--lol. I could see Jaime being defeated by Dany as she makes her way North. Leaving yet again very few to fight.

As I recall she's bringing over more troops than the Lanisters and Vale have together. And without them, there's not much after Boltons/wilding losses.

You're right, I wasn't totally kidding about Dany and the Night King. They've made her character some type of comic book hero and so that could better match with another super hero type like the Night King.

That's why they all have to unite to take on the walkers. But with all the northern houses united again plus the remaining wildlings they have a bit of a military force up there. Hibberd ended his recap saying that the 2 season split makes more sense now with the way the show ended. There is room for 2 more battles. 1 battle with our remaining characters against each other (season 7) and then the Living vs. the dead (season 8). I could see that panning out in some fashion. We need to at least see dany try to conquer something and who will support her. And then the Walkers will come south.

Yeah....i can't imagine that they'll all be on the same side at first. (referring to your Dany vs. the Starks logic).....of course it sure would be good timing if Bran revealed to Jon his true parents before he came into contact with Dany. And of course...from a show perspective...if Theon has bonded with Sansa...and the North has overtaken the Boltons....that could build some kind of sympathy from them when encountering the North and how they deal with them.

The ironborne seem to change their mind pretty quickly (as they did with that vote)...I'm not too worried about them spending too much time on them questioning Yara's vote undoing. That's called Yara and her iron born taking on the Euron and the other half of the iron born. There were people manning all those ships that were loyal to Yara...I'd say it was pretty close to half and half. But I really forget if they mentioned numbers.

Yeah...that could very well be with Dany and learning about the north. That would really suck if Winterfell falls again but I can't imagine it not due to its geographic position. If the walkers are going to get further south...then they'd have to pass through winterfell. I'd imagine the Night King's army just gets bigger as they march down.

Interesting idea on the Twins. With the Freys being taken out I wonder if the Twins will be manned. Surely there are some leftover Freys that weren't killed. lol We know Edmure has returned to the dungeon!

I think you're right that Dany is bringing more forces over than anyone has to rival her. Cersei can still burn down more of King's Landing before the end though. lol

They certainly did make her a super hero with her "can't be burned" skills...but having her pair up with the White Walkers would be kind of nuts. It's still the living vs. the dead when it all boils down. It's fun to theorize, but I don't think the show will go that off the wall.

Well, the Night King was made that way against his will. Maybe that spell can be undone by a Dany kiss and we'd have the girl power version of Snow White--lol. I know that's crazy but to just have Dany get with Yara, Jon or Tyrion seems kind of weak. Jamie whom you brought up earlier wouldn't be as weak given they will likely face off against each other.

LOL a fairy tale ending. Love it. I do think we might be in store for some kind of crazy twist in the books at least. I'm just not sure about the show. Granted.....Benioff and Weiss did say there is one more thing that shocked them that happens near the end of the series. Poor George won't get to do it first.

Well, the extra 3 eps doesn't create a huge problem. But, splitting the season stinks. Just cosider this. It will be almost a solid year between S7 and S8 with likely only 6 eps to look forward to.

One key thing for me is that when I watch something I really like it is rare that I miss something. And so a rewatch doesn't do a lot for me. I have found in these rare cases/shows, that I don't get as much out of an ep rewatching as I did the first time. Because the first time I am all in looking for every detail and actually rewind if I've missed something so that by the time the ep is over I have gleamed practically all I can.

Which means the long wait between S7 and S8 will just be time for my interest to go elsewhere. Which happened with MadMen and Hell on Wheels. In both of those cases the final season was a kind of post show wrap up, a tag on if you will. In part because by the time those final seasons hit almost every conceivable optional ending will have been discussed and thought through. And the ending may not be exactly like what was discussed but close enough and here's the thing--after spending a ton of energy--in some ways what actually happens doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as much because you've had a year to say goodbye. To start the wind down process and begin looking for something else. So that by the time you say goodbye, the show is starting to BEGIN to feel a little beyond it's time.

I mentioned them in the recap. :) Called them astrolabes after I googled what they're actually called. Sometimes I wonder if anyone ever reads those recaps!! LOL But I know I pack them with too many words!!

I didn't get into the crazy conspiracy theories on what it might actually represent though. I did read a couple of them. :)

R+L=J??? - So, I thought the show clearly confirmed that Rhaegar is the father of John Snow, but James Hibberd (who we know gets exclusives from Thrones team) and After the Thrones made it seem more ambiguous. Even the post interview with D&D did as well. They all said it was more powerful to not know what Lyanna was saying. But we did hear her say "if Robert finds out he'll kill him". After the Thrones definitely confirmed he's a Targaryan...but left it open to the possibility that the Mad King himself might be the father making him Dany's half brother.

I personally think that's a stretch, but I guess if they're not willing to confirm it's Rhaegar we have to consider a possible further twist coming.

EVENT television.....that's the way you have to think about it. Not the wait between seasons. And also...they still haven't confirmed the lengths. It's all speculation so far. But surely the powers that be roughly know how many eps are left. Maybe HBO is trying to negotiate more episodes and D&D are trying to figure out a way to logistically do it with the stories left to tell.

Rewatches - I don't usually rewatch things to look for additional clues. I do it because I enjoy the shows and want to experience them again. Especially when I'm taking notes a whole episode to write a recap (that no one reads!! I'm kidding!!! lol)...i need to watch them again just to get the full experience of the episode. Plus it's fun to watch them all back to back without all the speculation that we had from ep to ep. That's why I enjoy LOST rewatches. You can just enjoy it for the drama it is rather than looking for clues. Experience well made television.

Yeah but that last half of Mad Men was spectacular. I think they more than made it worth our while to tune in again. Same with Breaking Bad's final run. Some shows I would agree with you on losing interest. These big shows they kind of earn some leeway for me. I'm not a fan of split seasons either...but I can see the benefit of it with producing Thrones.

I still say...EVENT television. The wait for LOST seasons 4, 5 and 6 was excruciating but when it was on it was the thing to be talking about! And I know...that was 14, 17 and 17 (due to the writers strike in season 4) episodes so it was still more than 10 weeks...but you were waiting from May-January to watch. Shorter period than the thrones wait but long for its time. I still say 3-6 more weeks isn't THAT much time.

"I can't take credit for observing this, but it appeared that some of the items hanging from the ceiling looked like astrolabes which mirror the one that crosses the map in the opening credits of every episode."

I saw a screenshot of Tower of Joy scene on Facebook (so I can't share it lol) but apparently there is a sword leaning on the bed with a STAR on the hilt. and there are bloody rags on the bed UNDER the star representing where Jon was born.

The prophecy of Azor Ahai indicates that the return of the prince will be represented by someone "born under a bleeding star".

Of course...Dany also had the Comet when she was reborn as the mother of dragons. And she meets other characteristics of Azor Ahai as well. So I don't think this confirms anything just yet. But still a cool easter egg.

Hopefully this isn't really falling under spoiler territory and just "enrichment" territory at this point!

I noticed the rags and star on the hilt of the sword. They zoomed in when he layed it up against the bed. But, forgot about the Azor Ahai prophecy stuff you mentioned.

LOL on Rhaegar not being Dad. Sounds like they don't want to spoil the books too much-lol.

Was Aerys dead when she had the baby?

I read your recap carefully, sometimes 3 times a paragraph. But, when I saw astrolabes I didn't know what you were talking about and thought it was a typo and so didn't pay much attention--lol.

If it weren't EVENT tv, I wouldn't be spending this much time on it. And yes, I'll watch the finale, of course. But, I don't have to like how it's being spoon fed to us. I suspect a lot of people are like me and that's why binging is so popular on netflix after a series is done?

Yeah...it was a nice touch with the blood and star stuff. But, could be just a nod to book fans.

Good point on the Rhaegar/book spoiling. I don't think it's as satisfying for the Mad King to be the father as it would be Rhaegar and Lyanna being in love and possibly married making Jon a legitimate heir.

Aerys would've been just killed at the time of jon's birth...but last I checked it takes about 9 months to produce a child. lol So he would've been alive at conception.

Well yeah...we're in a binge culture now and shows are made for eventual binge audiences. So if you waited 10 years to watch the show you wouldn't have had to wait. But Game of Thrones is one of the last "EVENT TELEVISION" shows that you want to watch live and savor/discuss each episode. Walking Dead is part of that dying breed also. Maybe something will come up when those are both over but the market is so "niche'd" now that there aren't many shows that unify and audience and get people around the real and virtual watercoolers to discuss. I'm fine with "spoon fed" as you discuss it. Because it might be one of the last times we have this experiences...unless the TV experience regresses back to more traditional formats. Or another show rises from the ashes. lol

LOST - I rewatched as the show aired like I've been doing thrones. I've only done one FULL rewatch since the show ended. I'm getting the bug to do it again soon. But there's just so much other stuff I haven't seen that I could watch (see above paragraph)

Astralobes - didn't realize what was on them during the ep. Lots of speculation now on what they are - and what they can be used for. Hints that Sam could be pretty important during this war with the dead because of them

Think back to season 1. Remember how Robert Baratheon wanted ALL Targaryans dead including little girl Dany? Imagine if Lyanna Stark had a Targaryan child that he assumed was born of rape (really wouldn't matter if it wasn't rape either). I've always assumed that Ned was keeping it a secret from Robert and that's why he never told ANYONE. And this line of dialogue confirmed it.

So even of the Mad King raped Lyanna Stark, it would still apply. But Jon would still be a bastard. I still don't think it's a legit theory. Would be an interesting twist on people's expectations but not what they've been setting up on the show.

LOST works really well as a binge show...and most people that binge it have no complaints on the ending. It's the people that came up with these really solid theories that got disproven and had questions the show never intended to really be questions that didn't get answered....they were the most displeased with it. That's my theory at least. But I've seen time and time again how this has proven to be true. (the subreddit on LOST has the same theory too lol)

Astrolabes - Yeah...there's some crazy theories that develop out there now that we're without the books. MOST of the "out there" theories that came up in season 6 were quickly disproven in subsequent episodes. There's one theory that the old man 3 eyed raven is actually Bran when he grows up. but that would include PHYSICAL time travel and I really don't think the show is going to go there. There were crazy theories about Arya when she got stabbed...and it turned out that was just a case of unfortunate writing. lol

But, yeah I'm assuming Sam is going to stumble on something pretty big at the Citadel or else why go to the trouble of sending him there in the first place? (in the books too)

I'll have to read the link you sent more closely. I just skimmed it due to time earlier!

Okay I read it more closely. Yeah that is pretty cool. The only thing I wonder is...I remember reading/watching a video about the making of the opening credits and it was basically something someone had just come up with as a good idea to give viewers a lay of the land. literal WORLD building if you will. The astrolabe is an actual cartographer's device that they thought would be a good way to show navigation of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolabe

Point being...if the show comes up with some use of this thing for the ultimate end game it would probably be for a show purpose of tying things together neatly and "OMGly" lol....I don't think that's what GRRM would do. Unless George tipped them off very early in the game that this is a key to the end game. They did say there is one more crazy twist coming near the end.

But yeah...this is a cool little easter egg either for A.) decoration or B.) future use in the show. I could totally see Sam using it.

No...Lyanna was "promised" in an arranged marriage to Robert. Robert was in love with Lyanna. We never knew if Lyanna felt the same way. All we know is Rheager took her and a war started over it. There's more background in the books with the Tournament at Harrenhal where Rhaegar gave a rose to Lyanna over his wife.

There are different theories to if Lyanna was complicit in the affair. I choose to think she left willingly with him because she didn't want to marry Robert. But, there's no concrete proof to that yet.

But it's not the first time in the show/books where someone didn't want to marry who they were set up to marry. And it's not the first time there would be consequences. (see: Red Wedding)

Season 7 Directors announced. No Sipchnik or David Nutter. But Alan Taylor returns after being gone since season 2. He used to be their go to director and directed Baelor in season 1.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/29/game-thrones-season-7

4 directors announced and they've been doing 2 episodes each lately. So maybe one will only do 1 giving us a 7 ep season. They updated the article from April saying the showrunners confirmed there are only 13 hours left of the show. They just haven't officially announced the split.

See, that part about her being taken and a war starting makes sense until I think about her giving birth at the TOJ. Due to timing. For example, did she go with Rhaegar, the war start and she got almost immediately pregnant and then with the war still going on she gave birth in the TOJ--9 months later? That would mean she was "held captive" almost a year?

I think Lyanna went with Rhaegar vs being taken. It's not the first time someone was promised to one person and then slept with another. Due to arranged vs love marriages for example.

I'll have to look up how long the war was. Or a timeline of when Lyanna disappeared to when Tower of Joy was. I don't really know the history that well. I just know she was "taken", it sparked a war and Ned came home with Jon Snow.

As for your 2nd paragraph I obviously agree with you and was the point I was getting to with my last paragraph 2 comments ago. :)

Comic-Con plans. Dan and Dave will be there. Interesting selection of cast members. No Arya, No Jon (again...but last year was on purpose), No Dany, No Jaime, No Cersei, No Tyrion. Still no GRRM...so he won't be there to announce a book or anything unless it's a surprise.

HBO is making a big deal about the premiere of Westworld in October. I'm definitely very intrigued by that one. JJ Abrams is a producer of course, but the aesthetic of the show looks promising. Apparently early previews were received well too.

Great summary of Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark and the history that led to the birth of Jon Snow. It includes stories only mentioned in the book (i.e. The tournament at Harrenhal) but there's a good chance this won't be covered in full on the show unless they want to prove out that Rhaegar didn't in fact kidnap Lyanna. The person who posted clearly is showing what he theorizes based on the book facts. And Richard and I just happen to agree. Lol Still a good summary for book readers and show watchers.

One of the writers regarding how quickly some characters are getting places now. ANd kinda like I said - who wants to watch a character ride a horse for 3 episodes or as he states Arya in a boat for 4 episodes. I am happy to just go with it at this point.

Yeah Cogman (Same writer/producer in your link) was also interviewed by EW earlier this season and said a lot of the same things. Totally agree. And I always bring up the same thing happened on LOST. Though I justified it a little because they were exploring early on and then had better bearings of the island by the end. lol But they definitely still took some liberties with distance/time.

I don't really consider this information spoilery even though it is stuff that's been discussed by book readers for awhile. Now that we have some more stuff out in the open it feels this can be brought up:

Reading lots of stuff (of course)...and just noticed something I never put together before. Jon Snow, Dany Targaryan, Tyrion Lannister....all 3 of them had mothers who died in childbirth. I actually didn't remember that about Dany...just that she was "storm born". Anyway....they keep saying there will be 3 dragon riders. These 3 have always been theorized. Maybe that's the connection?

Tyrion obviously has a fascination with dragons in the show and was able to get close to them without being burned. Jon is now confirmed part Targaryan. It's possible.

I still like the outside chance that Bran may warg with one of the dragons. But, he may have enough going on with his greenseeing. lol

More on the above, it's NOT Book spoilers at all actually. I totally forgot Littlefinger brought up the Tournament at Harrenhal last season to Sansa.

This video is FANTASTIC. It's every time the show hinted at Jon's real parentage in the show. But the youtuber did some fantastic editing and use of the Thrones music to put together a pretty emotional presentation. I love it.

Nice, lol. The YouTube video I posted above does a better job at showing all the R+L=J hints. But I have seen that pillar easter egg before too. lol

Yeah I caught all of the After the Thrones eps...they basically were just like the podcast I've listened to for the past few years with these guys but a little more "drinking the Kool-Aid"...they used to be critical of the episodes they didn't like. This one they don't really get into that because they're working for HBO. But they still do a good job discussing the episode and the MAP is helpful for people who don't keep that map pictured in their head at all times! LOL

3 Dragon Riders....yeah I figured you didn't. But, it's not too much of a spoiler that it's probably coming. I think even Arya spoke to Tywin in the show about all of the dragon stories from history and how she knew each of their riders and stuff. Granted, that was back in season 2 :)

Yeah, I just assumed next season might have Dany and Jon at odds with each other but eventually they would team up against the White Walkers. I was walking out of work with AUStarWars the other day and he told me he thinks exactly the opposite. I didn't get a chance to find out what he meant. lol

The Jon/Dany alliance has been assumed for so many years and almost become canon that I'm not surprised for AU to challenge--lol.

And you know, I'm not nearly as positive as you or most about Dany being a force for good. I have said many times that Dany will be viewed as an invader by most. Even most of the Ironborne(there was nothing relative to the vote to think it was a close vote, ie why they left so quickly). Tyrion hasn't witnessed her past crazy behavior on ruling either. AND, I've said that the Starks are going to be threatened by her, at least given an ultimatum--align or die. I could easily see Arya, Sansa and Jon each having different opinions of Dany. And, we don't know what Bran will come to see with Dany.

Even though Tyrion could be a Targaryan(recall that Tywin was never sure he was a Lanister), I'm still not on board with each dragon having their own rider--Dany, Jon and Tyrion. BTW, good point on each of them with their mothers dying.

Dany and her dragons with a much larger army could just roll up Westeros pretty quickly given the depleted forces she'd face. Given that, it's possible that S7 could be some about her ruling Westeros and the "mistakes" she makes. Leading up to battling the White walkers and initially failing then eventually reaching out to people like Sam and the Starks after some initial loosing efforts on mostly her own. And who knows how Sam and the Starks would respond. Maybe with Bran they ally with the Nights King? One reason I say that is S6 humanized the Night King and in some ways made him a sympathetic character put in a place by the children of the forest which he tried to fight.

It is possible that:1. Dany does a poor job.2. Bran discovers what the Night King ultimately wants. Maybe in conjunction with Sam.3. The Starks are able to give the Night King what he wants in return for saving them from Dany.4. Perhaps what the Night King wants is to stop his and the white walkers eternal suffering as a result of the children.

We have always had Dany's perspective when she's been conquering in Esos. In Westeros we will likely see both sides and have some difficulty in choosing who to root for?

Dany - yeah...if there was ever going to be a crazy twist on this show/book series near the end it would be something like Dany being a force for bad and/or the walkers being a force for good. I do know that Dany will be seen as an invader when she gets there. That's been alluded to in the series over the seasons too. That's why she knew she had to have alliances. But it seems so clearly being set up to pit Dany vs. Cersei in the immediate future. And of course we'll be wanting to root for Dany in that case. (well most people would root for Dany). The question comes on what will happen when Dany and Jon come in contact with each other...and who knows what with Jon's history. If Dany finds out he's a Targaryan will she welcome him with open arms or will she see him as a threat? Will Jon know what he is at some point next season?

Tyrion has witnessed Dany's gut instincts to "burn them all" and his advice is what tamed her a bit and made them take a different approach to ending the siege at meereen.

We've definitely speculated before about Tyrion (though not outside of Book knowledge....Tywin in the show did once say "since I can't prove you're not mine you're a Lannister" or something like that) The books suggest more) Anyway, I didn't bring it up since we weren't in speculation territory. I still just don't think GRRM would reveal another secret Targaryan. (And this dives into more book discussion) And yeah...there's no telling if we will/won't have dragon riders besides Dany. But it's probably a good bet.

Humanizing the Night King - Well you always have to humanize the enemies in shows these days or else they're just a characature (sp) bad guy. Even the Man in Black was made sympathetic a little bit in LOST. Same with Cersei on the show (more than the books). So, it's nice to have ambiguous feelings going into these conflicts...especially on thrones. Most of the time we watched battles where we were rooting for particular characters to survive vs. the Good Guys vs. Bad Guys. Battle of the BAstards was different as we did have a side to support because there was a clear cut villain to take out.

That said...it's an interesting thought to have some of westerns align with the Night King. He still has an army of dead people and that's a strange alliance to have considering any people that die in the fight become more meat for his army.

I know it's a cliche ending and there are suggestions that's why GRRM is having issues finishing the book (because he's still trying to surprise the readers)...but I just see this eventually boiling up to Living vs. Dead and the living will have to work together to end this conflict. He has subverted expectations to get to this point. At some point it needs to end sort of traditionally or else he just has to let the White Walkers win in the end. lol

This is one of the best projections I've read. So much sounds possible. Although it doesn't fit with what I wrote above since it's more traditional. I do like the wedding idea between Rhaegar and Lyanna making Jon a legit heir to the throne.(and oh, what if Dany doesn't like Jon being a legit heir--lol) I think this article has a reasonable theory on Euron's/Yara's fight if the desired result is to see Yara come out on top. I hope it doesn't come off as over contrived since she did indeed loose the election.

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2016/07/01-third-eye-twow/index.html

you've got some good points. And yes, what I said is much with the idea of it ending with an out of the box result.

The post gives some good predictions to how things may go down. Many of which we discussed just not as organized as in the post. lol

Yeah...the only way I see Euron coming into the picture (and I think I mentioned this above) is if they all meet at Blackwater Bay near King's Landing. But I certainly think Cersei is going down in that fight. Whether it's Jaime or Tyrion or Arya killing her we'll see. Euron yeah...I don't think he has a chance in the fight considering we've only known him for 2 episodes in the show. lol

But yes...many are theorizing that the wall will crumble when Bran tries to cross....it makes sense considering what happened at the cave and Benjen's warning about the magic in the wall. There have been lots of hints at it. But if Bran doesn't get to Jon before that wall falls how will he know if he's a Targaryan? Maybe Howland Reed will come out of hiding? He is the only other person that knows. Granted...Littlefinger seems to have some knowledge given his conversation with Sansa in the Winterfell crypt.

But yeah....will we be seeing some more interfamilial Targaryan marriages in our future? It's not the first time it's been discussed. I think there are book theories out there going back a long time for Dany/Jon to marry. And we know that some kind of marriage will be in Dany's future since a big point was made of it in the finale. But yeah...either that or Dany might not like Jon being a legit heir like we both mentioned. Could go either way!

I don't really have a position on Jon and dany besides them working together in the end. Which I could be wrong about too. It's a theory that they might get married but I don't know how I feel about it regardless of targaryan history. As for flying a dragon I just said the 3 being born with mother dying in childbirth seems a little coincidental and suggested what it could mean. I don't know if that means they all will ride dragons. I just like discussing the ideas and options. I don't like convincing myself one way is the right way only to be disappointed that it doesn't happen that way.

I read this on gizmodo a little while ago but now it's on an entertainment site. Apparently filming is going to start later for season 7 (and probably 8) due to the "Weather related" needs of the final seasons. Since WINTER has come, they need their settings to be in a different climate. I'm sure this will make production (as well as post production effects) more difficult and have less time in a year to film the scenes as well. All of this could also contribute to spreading out the final 2 seasons. I also think season 7 and 8 will cover different thematic grounds making logical sense of splitting up the groupings of eps too.

Of course, cynics who have already made up their mind to be against the split (still not officially announced...though season 7 is most likely 7 episodes because the directors were announced)...aren't going to be convinced by further news. lol

LOL, so a cynic if you don't buy the story pushed by the show. I prefer to say, not gullable-lol.

In so many ways, it doesn't matter as it's HBOs money and they want to cash cow for as long as they can. At least you can acknowledge the 8 vs 7 is about HBO wanting to cash in. Keep in mind that I'm a capitalist and believe it's the companies' proragative, period. And I get their math calculalations.

Mutually beneficial I would say. Has nothing to do with gullibility. But you have to admit it's a legit reason to delay production for the weather when they're filming the entire season during "WINTER" weather. Sure, they could add in some post production effects and fake snow, but it's not the same as filming in the actual environment.

They didn't use that to justify the less episodes per season or spanning multiple seasons. I just thought that makes sense and is beneficial to splitting the seasons.

And you mean 7 and 6 not 8 and 7. It's definitely beneficial for HBO to make more money on the show. D&D want to do 13 more hours of the show. Nothing has been made official on the final season so there is a chance HBO is trying to squeeze out more hours. Or they're waiting until they get to those episodes to determine if they need more time to hash it out.

I was not happy with the Breaking Bad split (turned out that it worked out fantastically for everyone...network, fans, writers). I was annoyed at the Mad Men split (the final eps were great but they were all filmed ahead of time so that was purely a money move)..... Game of Thrones I can legitimately see this as being beneficial to everyone. We'll see though. There just aren't any official announcements from HBO yet so it's all based on strong rumors and words from the showrunners of what they'd like to see.

BB - I felt the split sucked ! LOL Two seasons of like 8 eps or something. Was a pain to drag it out. And for those consumers who buy the DVD's they then just get more money out of you. Cause it’s not like they charge less if less episodes really.

If they truly wanted to do 13 more hours then what the really should do is 1 season of 13 hours and just take longer to make them. I'd rather see the last season be 7 and have it start 4 months later then have to watch two seasons spread out over 2 years. Give us our end and let everyone move on - fans and actors and production crews

I understand what both of you are saying. The split sucked yes...but the quality we received due to the split made it worth it for me. They didn't film BB back to back. They took a break between each 8 episode run. Filmed them as 2 individual seasons. Those last 8 episodes were near perfect. They took the time to do it right. That's why I thought it was worth it. Mad Men was different. They were able to construct it all up front and then AMC split it. That I wasn't a fan of.

With Game of Thrones...I think TIME is important. Time to produce these episodes. I get what you're saying...delay the whole thing and then run it all together. But I think it's nice to space it out and build anticipation too. I'm not saying I'm a fan of the shorter seasons and splitting it over the 2 years. But, I get why they're doing it. They wouldn't want to let too much time pass without a Game of Thrones fix. It worked with the Sopranos though. But they're more mature with contract negotiations on these big shows now, I imagine.

Bottom line...I get it. But, I choose to be optimistic that this is for the best possible results.

BB - I don't remember it that way. Seems to me the cast was all on new stuff when the second half of the final season was out. I think they did film it all at once but knew when the break would be and closed the half season well to start the second half well too. Hmmm.

Yes - you do choose the optimistic path more often. LOL They can take all the time in the world to make a great quality final season. Putting it out later then usual but putting it out all at once - that would be worth the wait.

Making us wait and watch for two more years - charging double for 1 season of tv that is released in two increments - that is purely about the money.

Yes, MJ, it's all about the money. Not respect for the audience, not production improvements, not a better show--but simply--money.

2 more eps of Hell on Wheels, typical AMC division of last season. In this case something like 6 eps. I've found myself FF through some of them as I've lost some of my desire for the show due to this AMC stuff. I haven't watched anything on AMC after this--I don't know if they have anything worth watching though. I'm not into zombie stuff.

The other "problem" GoT has is there are no books for what we're watching. One thing that caused me to enjoy this show so much is the detail/canon/information/etc that you can get from the books to help enrichen the show. Without that enrichment the show becomes less for me by definition. D&D can't do anything about that, it's about GRRM not writing and getting it done. I wish they had started the series after Winds of Winter. IF they had I suspect GRRM would have already released WoW due to fewer distractions,etc.

BB - Mad Men that was definitely the case but totally not the case with BB. I remember interviews with Vince Gilligin saying they hadn't written the 2nd half yet and were getting back together to start it soon. I'll have to look it up!

As far as it sounds they're going to promote it as 2 seasons of television not Season 7A and 7B....that is when they're cooking the books. They don't pay actors and crew twice and all that stuff. This is going to be season 7 and 8. Of course...nothing is still confirmed. What we do know is season 7 is confirmed and that there will most likely be 7 episodes due to the directors announced.

I'm reminded of something Richard always says about the 10 episode seasons and now 7 with longer waits between seasons. I just don't think that logic applies anymore in the Netflix/Binge era. Orange is the New Black just reminded me. We binged through 13 episodes in a 1-3 week time period (some people in a weekend) then have to wait an entire year for another season...and we're still watching. Sure..i dreaded hitting play on the 1st one...but once I was in I was back in and it was great. Game of Thrones has a bigger reach than OITNB and I think waiting makes the heart grow fonder with that show.

So I could see where you say waiting for a full 13 episodes could be worth it. Then again...there could be the whole GRRM clause too. Maybe he has one more shot to get a book out while they're still writing content and can somehow fit something in from it. you know??

Richard, we posted at the same time..see my above post even though you'll disagree with it. I still think this Thrones situation is a "little" different. Sure, there still are financial gains to the whole thing, but I still think there are benefits for everyone. MJ brings up a good point of waiting to release the whole thing (even though I think the 6 and 7 will be covering different thematic elements and can stand as 2 seasons).....Still gotta look up what Breaking Bad did, but I'm 99% sure I'm right on that one.

In July 2011, series creator Vince Gilligan indicated that he intended to conclude Breaking Bad with the fifth season.[27] In early August 2011, negotiations began over a deal regarding the fifth and possibly final season between AMC and Sony Pictures Television, the production company of the series. AMC proposed a shortened fifth season (six to eight episodes, instead of thirteen) to cut costs, but the producers declined. Sony then approached other cable networks about possibly picking up the show if a deal could not be made.[28] On August 14, 2011, a deal was made in which AMC renewed the series for a final 16-episode season.[29] Filming began for the season on March 26, 2012.[30] Filming for the second half of the season began on December 7, 2012, during which AMC sent the cast and crew cupcakes decorated with characters and props used throughout the show's run.[31][32]

Vince Gilligan explained that the season was split at his request in order to have more time to write the final episodes. Thomas Schnauz revealed that the writers initially tried to conceive a 16-episode arc in advance of completing the first eight episodes, but that most of these plans were scrapped as new plot points emerged "that threw everything into a little bit of chaos."[33]

Dean Norris had asked Gilligan to kill off Hank during the first half of the season after being cast in a comedy pilot. However, Gilligan declined his request, citing the importance of Hank in the final eight episodes.[34]"

Thrones got 23 Emmy Nominations including Best Drama, Directing for Home (Jack Bender from LOST fame), Battle of Bastards (Sipochnik). Pretty surprised they made a dent in some acting nominations too! Maisie Williams (Arya) got nominated! I always thought she was great, maybe not the best material this season but she's still awesome. Dinklage and Emilia Clarke have been nominated before. But this is a first for Kit, Lena (I think) and Maisie.

You think Sam Jackson likes the F word?--lol. He uses it in a lot of movies. I don't think I'd like him with his limited vocabulary. It was fun to watch though.

BTW,you mentioned something about the CGI dragons and night scenes. As a reason they don't do them in GoT. One of the absolute best movies with dragons is Reign of Fire with Mathew McCaunaghey and Christian Bale. It had a lot of night scenes and they were great with dragons. The use of fire and shadowing was compelling.

Brienne--LOL on nomination. Maybe a cardboard cut out.

ON the list I would go with Jon Voight and maybe Lena Headey. These are SUPPORTING rules though. Interesting no headliner type position nominated. I really liked Lena in the last 2 eps, especially last ep.

I did mention it because I thought I heard about it. But we really haven't seen dragons at night yet...just that one Dusk scene with Dany in season 5. I really don't know the details behind it and if it's even true, but there is the fact that we really haven't seen night dragons in thrones yet.

They never nominate thrones cast for lead..it's an ensemble cast and no one really has the spotlight long enough to get a lead nom. I"m sure they submitted the last ep for Lena. They probably submitted Battle of the Bastards for Kit. I have no idea what they submitted for Maisie this season...maybe the episode 8 terminator chase. I guess she did have some good scenes with the theater group so there is that. lol She's still great, the plot line was just a little iffy this year.