I have decided to become a police officer and am starting the police academy Aug. 20th. With this I have been eyeing several departments in my area, and have found that most insist that you carry a Glock.
The reason behind this I am told is the fact that under a stressful situation they find that cops can draw and shoot better without having to deal with an external safety.
Now what about a criminal who grabs your service pistol from its holster in a confrontation? Is it also easier for a criminal to operate your service pistol without an external safety?
The first thing a guy is going to do after grabbing your gun is point and pull the trigger. If you have a Glock or a revolver you have just been shot.
If you are carrying a HK or Beretta then he is going to have to stop, identify the safety, disengage it, point and then shoot. By this time you have either had time to draw your backup, or at least try at retrieve your weapon.
The question I am asking is;
Do you think it is a benefit or a liability for LEOs to carry pistols without an external safety(Glock).
Your input would be greatly appreciated.

6 of one, half dozen of the other.
When I first started everyone, and I mean everyone carried a smith&wesson or colt double action revolver in 38spec or 357mag.
None had external safeties. Concentrate more on proper procedure, tactics and weapons retention. Wear your body armour and carry at least one approved backup weapon.
IMHO sgb.

"When basic morality and legal principle give you a green light to shoot the fucker, it's probably a good idea to shoot the fucker." - John_Wayne777

I think its a benefit, they are simple to use fast in stressful situations. You could put one of those Glock triggerblocks in (small piece of plastic behind the trigger that needs to be popped out before trigger is squeezed), but I doubt the Dept. would approve its use.

Before this turns in to a "school the rookie session", I am 24(I know this is not old, but I just wanted everyone to know I'm not a 18 yr. old kid wasting your time), and have served previously in the military, and am aware of the importance of training and technique.
I am asking if you think that the benefit of not having an external safety outweighs the drawback of having a pistol that is easy to use by not only you, but also anyone who picks it up.
Or is not having an external safety a drawback at all?
(p.s. SGB thank you for your comments.)

There are situations where a cop's life has been saved because he was carrying a handgun with the safety on. That being said, I have never carried a duty gun with a safety that can be left on. Even my Beretta 92 is a "G" model. I prefer to rely on gun-retention techniques and a good security holster instead. The only pistol I would feel absolutely comfortable with having to get a safety off before firing is a 1911, and I can't carry one of those in uniform. I personally don't want to be fumbling with a slide-mounted safety if I'm on the ground getting my head whacked with a chunk of firewood, 'cause my hands are small and those safeties are hard for me to work comfortably.
If you get a Glock, the Safariland 295 is a great security holster for uniform duty- I recommend it highly!

There are situations where a cop's life has been saved because he was carrying a handgun with the safety on. That being said, I have never carried a duty gun with a safety that can be left on. Even my Beretta 92 is a "G" model. I prefer to rely on gun-retention techniques and a good security holster instead. The only pistol I would feel absolutely comfortable with having to get a safety off before firing is a 1911, and I can't carry one of those in uniform. I personally don't want to be fumbling with a slide-mounted safety if I'm on the ground getting my head whacked with a chunk of firewood, 'cause my hands are small and those safeties are hard for me to work comfortably. I also won't have a magazine safety. Back when we carried Smith autos, a Lt. in my department got shot because his mag release got bumped, and the mag dropped just barely enough to deactivate the magazine safety. He pointed it at the crook and it went 'click', while the scrote's gun went 'bang'. Bad juju!
If you get a Glock, the Safariland 295 is a great security holster for uniform duty- I recommend it highly!
And you can't rely on the bad guy being bewildered by your gun's safety anymore- lots of bad guys out there know how to work Beretta's, Smith's, etc.

610/ sparky, Thanks for the advice, trigger block may be an option. I have practiced with my Hk usp .45 releasing the safety as a part of the draw stroke, I can do it quickly every time with one single motion, but I have never done it under a real life stressful situatuion.
Just wonder if anyone has the stats on how many police disarm/shootings there have been with glock/revolvers, compared to weapons with an external safety? I think that would be a very interesting piece of info.

Originally Posted By schv:
Before this turns in to a "school the rookie session", I am 24(I know this is not old, but I just wanted everyone to know I'm not a 18 yr. old kid wasting your time), and have served previously in the military, and am aware of the importance of training and technique.
I am asking if you think that the benefit of not having an external safety outweighs the drawback of having a pistol that is easy to use by not only you, but also anyone who picks it up.
Or is not having an external safety a drawback at all?
(p.s. SGB thank you for your comments.)

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My personal preference in duty weapons is a 1911 cocked and locked. Fortunately the last dept I worked for allowed me to carry as such.
I point this out as I have carried on duty both weapons with and without external safeties. If the bad guy is smart enough to defeat your training and a high security duty holster then he can probably figure out how to take off the safety.
Current street punks are also much more weapons smart. Many career criminals now train in weapons take away's from uniformed Officers. All this is what led to my first response suggestions. Not trying to school ya yungun, just passing on experience learned the hard way.
Humbly sgb
(ps. Welcome)

"When basic morality and legal principle give you a green light to shoot the fucker, it's probably a good idea to shoot the fucker." - John_Wayne777

schv,
From one cop to another. Do yourself and more importantly, every other cop and citizen around you, a favor.
Worry less about what your carrying (as long as its of quality, HK, SIG, Beretta, Etc.), and more about your proficiency!
This means:
TRAIN!
-And when you think you have it down, train some more.
-And when your tired, TRAIN SOME MORE!
-And for god sakes, when the department offers you inservice training, take advantage of it and TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. Cause' they dont offer it too often!
You owe it to yourself, and the officers and citizens around you.
Good luck in law enforcement schv. Just always remember what your out ere for.

schv,
The danger is of the gun being used against is just one of the MANY reasons that you and all officers should spend a good portion of your off-duty time studying hand-to-hand/CQB tactics. If they make a reach for it you need to be able to keep them off it.

Originally Posted By Sparky315:
If you get a Glock, the Safariland 295 is a great security holster for uniform duty- I recommend it highly!

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If that's the model with the forward-pivoting retention strap, that is the BEST retention design I have seen. I tried one, and it's super fast for the operator, but damn near impossible to operate easily from the side. An inspired design...
-Troy

A gunwriter/cop named Masaad Ayoob talks about these issues frequently in his columns in various mags. He's also written a few books, and runs a training site, Lethal Force Institute, in N.H. IIRC, he'd probably agree with most, if not all, of what Sparky said.

"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army

First you need to get through the academy. Then pass the state test. Finally get employed, and then worry about what you will cary.
The Glock 22/23 is our issue pistol. We have had them since '94, and our incidents of negligent discharges is actually lower than when we carried the Beretta 92D. The issue holster (at my insistance) is the Safariland 070, the SSIII. This holster is still fast, but it is really secure. We have had no incidents of a pistol being taken away while it is in use. As long as you practice weapons retention, use a good holster-level 3 preferably, and keep your wits about you, lack of an external safety is no major problem. The Glock is a very durable, reliable pistol. I am currently detailing all the pistols in my district. Some are over 6 years old, and I have identified no problems with any yet. I think the fact that Glock has over 70% of the police market says it all.
Concetrate on basic shooting skills, basic tactical skills, and handgun retention skills. That and a dose of common and street sense will take most folks home at the end of the shift.

Originally Posted By Sparky315:
There are situations where a cop's life has been saved because he was carrying a handgun with the safety on. That being said, I have never carried a duty gun with a safety that can be left on. Even my Beretta 92 is a "G" model. I prefer to rely on gun-retention techniques and a good security holster instead. The only pistol I would feel absolutely comfortable with having to get a safety off before firing is a 1911, and I can't carry one of those in uniform. I personally don't want to be fumbling with a slide-mounted safety if I'm on the ground getting my head whacked with a chunk of firewood, 'cause my hands are small and those safeties are hard for me to work comfortably.
If you get a Glock, the Safariland 295 is a great security holster for uniform duty- I recommend it highly!

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for every report of an officer getting killed due to his gun having NO safety, there is at least one of an officer getting killed because his gun DID have a safety and he couldn't get it off or forgot about it.

Average time it takes a criminal to shoot a gun with a safety that was taken away is 20 seconds
Average time it takes a criminal to shoot a gun without a safety that was taken away is 2 seconds
Stress will be a problem for a person who is not proficient with his sidearm. Most cops shoot 200 rounds a year. I shoot 400 rounds a week. If you are proficient, you will NOT forget your safety

If you are going out into the street you need a Safariland 070 holster for your weapon. You are probably best armed with some type of DAO autopistol w/o safties or decockers.
As far as weapon retention remember you hit them first. Always. If they are getting crazy spray them with pepper spray, reach out with your left hand and grab their shirt at their left shoulder, then start beating the s@#t out of their legs with your nightstick. If that doesn't work do what you have to do.
Remember the old wall search position was used in a time when if you took your hands off the wall you were either shot or beat. Anytime you pat someone down have your gun hand on your gun.
After while even if you are a gun nut you will decide any gun that works is fine. You will have plenty more to worry about than levers on your gun when you get in the street.

"One need only reflect that all one must do to be considered dangerous by the government is to go about repeating the very phrases used by our founding fathers in their struggle for independence." - Charles Beard, historian