Wednesday, June 22, 2011

Reporter Brett Shipp of WFAA, the ABC-affiliate in Dallas/Ft. Worth, aired a story last night telling of the legend and lies of Ergun Caner, and the controversial hiring of Caner by Arlington Baptist College in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Shipp investigated the Caner story after he was approached by faculty at the school who were not happy with the hiring of a man who they say profiteered from the tragedy of 9/11 by misleading people about his past.

Below is the video that aired last night on the 10:00 pm WFAA news report. Shipp has done a great job of fairly characterizing the Caner story that has unfolded over the past year and a half as Caner's story unraveled.

The saga that Brett Shipp outlines above all started back at FBC Jax when Caner used FBC Jax to launch his new career as an ex-Jihadist, transforming himself from E. Michael Caner to Ergun Mehmet Giovanni Caner right before our eyes as our pastor nodded in agreement with Caner's story.

As you see in the video above, Caner refused to speak to Brett Shipp for this story, although Shipp has given the school and Caner ample time to meet with him. Caner is being hired by a local college, professors have approached a local reporter about their concerns, yet Caner refuses to speak to the reporter. Ed Young took the same approach when Brett Shipp did a story on Young's use of private jet travel and his lavish lifestyle.

Strange how Caner refuses to speak to a local reporter about legitimate questions concerning his past, but Caner wants the privilege of speaking to middle schoolers and high schoolers at church camp. As I wrote about last week, FBC Jax has chosen to hire this man Ergun Caner, to speak at their middle school and high school youth camps.

147 comments:

This TV report seemed consistent with the discussion from "long" ago. I keep waiting for EC's few defenders to show up and explain things to the rest of us. Perhaps they feel that they have done enough.

They are right. Even W. Coyote only goes so far over empty space before gravity takes over.

It would have been so simple for Caner to simply admit his lies in open and ask for people's forgiveness whom he misled. I blame Ergun Caner and his friends (enablers) for this whole mess. Lot of people who make these errors, admit these errors in public and move on to rebuild their lives. It is not so hard.

Anon 11:23I am a Dallas site and active member at First Baptist. I do not recall the last time I bumped into anyone who knew who Jeffress, Brunson, Hawkins or even Criswell is unless active to some degree in the SBC. There are two type that tend to know these guys at all. SBC hard cases and whiners like you guys on this site. The rest of the world doesn't care for good or bad about all this baloney from both sides. Now, there are alot that know Young and Fellowship for both good and bad.

WD, There is very little that we agree on, I think you are a cry baby loving the lime light personally. You don't like it move on but of course wouldn't be on WFAA last night. Kind of like all the TV preachers, loving the attention.

But we do agree on EC, that is such a joke. In case you do not know most Dallasites, even hard core Baptist of all flavors have never even heard of ABC. It has been there for years, the only reason I knew of it I dated a girl whose Dad went there back in the 80's. Ouch I'm a gonna be chastised by my fellow FBD-ites but a lot like Criswell College. Was a joke, is a joke and always will be a joke. ABC and EC Deserve each other.

My wife and I both grew up in the SBC, Fathers both Pastors, we grew up going to conventions as vacations, been at FBD for close to 30 years and looking elsewhere, not because of Robert, the building, or anything that specific. Our last just graduated from college, not good or bad but FBD is different than it has always been and we just need a change, we have both transitioned out of ministries we have been involved with for years and time to move on. Our dads will roll over in their graves but not even considering any SBC churches yet, visited several and they are not even close to what we desire. Not bad just different and we wish them all well.

If you are so unhappy that you have to read this blog everyday, time for you to consider the same.

I did make Brett aware of that during or conversations and in our correspondence. There certainly was more damning evidence Brett could have used in his piece so Caner supporters should be grateful for that.

If Ergun Caner and Tom have one thing in common, it's the fact that they love the lime light and the attention. No doubt.

As an opportunist, Ergun lied and portrayed himself falsely seeking crediblity and fame, and rose to the top among the SBC elitist.

Tom blogs hard against the SBC as a leading figure among unrelenting, anti SBC organized religion stalwarts, and has also risen to the high ranks of unapologetic, free speech baptist bloggerhood elitists.

If you ask me, both men love attention. They might not agree on the same theological issues, but both men love attention.

"The more you put your mugshot on public television, the uglier you get."

Come on. Now wait a minute. He looked pretty good to me compared to the last time I saw him on the boob tube. He looks leaner and like he has put a little color on his hair. The last time he was on the TV he looked like some old, fat gay guy.

A FBCDallasite said:"There are two type that tend to know these guys at all. SBC hard cases and whiners like you guys on this site."

Ouch, talk about whiners, look who be whining now. I still have my membership at FBCDallas, but am actively looking elsewhere to escape the jacked up music and celebrity-of-the-month club. At least I know why I have to move elsewhere. Not sure you clear on your reasons, but no matter.

Thanks WD for hanging tough in these matters of integrity. Being a watchmen on the wall also makes you a target for fresh tripe.

Yeah Tom, you ain't too pretty on the video, certainly not as cute and cuddly as Tom ('Tommy the Rainman') Rhainer. He was clearly consulted by the A Group for his fashion sense.

I remember arguing with my brothers growing up. We could not have been more than 10 years old when my father made the observation that when people run out of intelligent replies in an argument, they will resort to name calling, especially in regards to physical apperance. Look at our political system, lots of silly name calling and juvenile insults. Can we stick to the facts and have honest dialog? Signed, A former FBCD member

I lived in Dallas for 10 years. I was a short term member of Ed Young's church and then a nondenominational church. The people I knew were aware of the churches like FBC Dallas, Prestonwood and others. They also knew the names of the pastors.

There were an incredible number of people who bounced from church to church depending on programs they liked or, for a few, they needed to move on due to divorce, affairs etc.

I was amazed to find the various mega Baptist churches did not do a good job vetting members and found one church in which a rather notorious couple who divorced their spouses in a rather ugly way were now Sunday school leaders a few short months later. I think if you gave enough dinero, your way was smoothed. Ah, the power of the tithe!

Tom, congratulations on a job well done in the Shipp interview! Thank you for pursuing the truth and not putting up with excuses like so many. Jesus is not only the Way but the Truth and Light.

Thanks Dee - I think Brett Shipp did a fantastic job on this. He could have been much tougher, there is so much to the Caner story even the ties that Caner had in Dallas on 9/11 as a member of FBC Dallas. But I hope the Lord uses Shipp to open up people's eyes not just about Caner in particular, and in general how the gospel has been prostituted for fame and fortune.

If you're an "insider" as Caner obviously is, you can get away with anything.

I don't trust all of these globalist, one-world churches, especially in the Dallas area. I love how he's not lying it's self-imposed inaccuracies, or whatever they called it, lol!!!

To the people criticizing this blogger, all I have to say is....are you getting scared that he is getting some notoriety by being interviewed by a TV channel in a major city? Hmmm...that says something, doesn't it?

Gee, especially when other churches in the Dallas area have been featured on this blog. I'm thinking the TV station might be looking for it's next big church investigation, just like they had with Daystar a few months ago. You can bet they've read every recent story on here,too.

They've also done stories on Ed Young. Who knows? Will they toss in some of the others and start investigating them? We shall see, won't we?

The webcam quality matters nothing.It is the information that got out. Like it or not -- it's out.

Y'know, I think I have yet to meet anyone who hasn't done some things they would just as soon nobody know about.

I'm pretty sure that just about everybody I've met has done some things they would really have a hard time 'fessin' up to in public.

To a degree, I sympathize with Ergun Caner. God knows it can't be easy to acknowledge, even to yourself, let alone the world, that you've been grossly exaggerating (to be kind) your history for years.

And yet, I can think of something more embarrassing: to continue to stonewall when person after person has demonstrated your--ahem!--euphemisms beyond controvertibility. To be caught, surely and securely caught, for everyone to see, and then not to admit to it goes beyond trying to cover up the embarrassment, I think. Not to admit to what he's done, at this point, is tantamount to saying that he fully expects some people to be dumb enough to continue to fall for his line of swill. And that is insulting.

It's also amazed me that so many who've worked with the man and helped to promote him simply refuse to acknowledge the depth of what he's done. It's as though they fear that to speak the truth is to admit that they've been duped, and, well, we can't very well have the sheep knowing that the pastor can be so easily duped, can we?

I have been called worse and Tom has been called a lot worse than a whiner.

I can see why it sounded bitter but I'm really not. Like I said I have been at FBD for close to 30 years and have always just laughed at how we can make Criswell College sound like this major player and huge ministry while they have a very low graduate rate and very low percentage of graduates actually still in ministry. It was a conservative haven away from all the demonic Baylor, Howard Payne, Hardin Simmons etc... But never much of a school, ABC is even a bigger joke of a school.

As far as my reasons for leaving, you are right I can't put my finger on it. It is just the attitude has become more and more shallow with all the catchy program names and gimmicks. I think the Grinch thing was kind of the straw that sent us looking. It was just another attention grabber that was really pretty in your face, even over the line for the SBC. The gospel is in your face but a slamming blog type thing sponsored by a church whose pastor has said don't read the blogs....

I'm very familiar with ABC, some of the greatest preaching I've heard in my life was at the chapel at ABC. That being said, I do believe that hiring Dr. Caner was a mistake. But I would also like to ask, since he is in exile in spiritual Siberia (in comparison to Liberty), at what point should he just be left alone? Just asking... I mean if he goes somewhere else, should he be hounded and everyone make sure he gets fired there? What about his wife and children? I'm really not trying to cause a problem, but I'm just wondering when this should all end?

In answer to your question, I'd say that day will be here when Ergun Caner takes ownership of the lies he's been living for the past 10 years, publicly apologizes (not to humiliate him but a sincere public apology to the thousands he's lied to... publicly), and drops the "you can't touch me" act. (Hmmm... reminds me of a video.) As long as he continues to arrogantly go on as if he did nothing wrong, I hope the bloggers never let up.

Oh, and his wife and kids? They're certainly the innocent victims in all this (although I can't help but wonder if just once in the past 10 years "Jayall" ever questioned these tall tales "Butch" began telling), but they aren't victims because of anything the evil bloggers have done. They're victims because their husband and father chose to reincarnate himself 10 years ago.

His kids are completely innocent and they cant help who their father is, however, I have always wondered what his wife though/thinks about the lies. She knew him before 9/11 and after and part of me thinks she is in it for all the money and fame, while the other part of me believes she dare not cross him. Caner is an arrogant jerk who is concerned about himself first and others second.

"Anonymous said... So I guess all the people Dr. Caner led to Christ's salvation is annulled right? Including the ones saved during the camp he was just at that you were against? June 23, 2011 9:18 PM"

Only God knows if these people were truly saved and if so, then they would not be annulled. Also, I do not think anyone is against the camp it self, it is the hiring of a habitual liar who thinks he is above reproach.

Speaking of Rahab do not forget what Joshua wrote down in chapter 2 vs 11 "For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed". vs 10 "And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath".

Rahab and her entire family were spared by Joshua chapter 6 vs 25. More importantly in James chapter 2 vs 25 we read "Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out anoter way". Here is one of the best examples of faith and works in the Bible and someone obviously failed to study the real Rahab and the faith she had in the true God.

I also find that Rahad was married to Booz and was the great grandmother of King David. My how God's ways are not mans ways His wonders to behold.

“Rahab lied to the King's messengers.”True, but we don’t know is what would have happened had Rahab told the truth. Maybe the people of Jericho would have repented. After all, Rahab repented maybe others would have too. That’s one of the problems with lying and sinning in general is we never know what would have happened had we been obedient.

So I guess all the people Dr. Caner led to Christ's salvation is annulled right?

I'm no calvinist, but neither Ergun Caner or anyone else can "lead" someone to Christ. (I'm as guilty as anyone in using that term, but it's not accurate.) One can present the gospel to someone, but unless the Holy Spirit draws them then, they will not come to Christ then. If Ergun Caner presented the gospel and someone was led by the HS to accept Christ, then they are just as "saved" as any other Christian.

God can "speak" through anyone. Or anything. Balaam's ass, anyone?

I hate proof-texting, but I'll make an exception here since I don't think plucking it out of context changes the intent.

"... so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. Isaiah 55:11 NIV

I think I understand your point; however...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but they make a good excuse." Thomas Szasz

I'm certainly not trying to blame bloggers for Ergun Caner's problems. I really appreciate your answers though and respect your viewpoint. I must admit that I haven't read everything there is on the subject, but has Dr. Caner ever admitted to any dishonesty whatsoever?

God honored Rahab's "FAITH",not her "LIE"! Lying is a sin[Prov.6:16-17a].

Rahab in her infant faith had heard of what God had done to the Egyptians,and the 2 kings,Sihon and Og.And she believed.So to sercure her and her families salvation,she lied.Why? Because she believed what she had heard of the God of Israel.

Her faith in the one true God is the reason and the only reason she is in the "Hall of Faith"[Heb.11:31].

"For by Grace(Unmerited,unearned)thru faith" we are all saved and not of any works,and from all sin.

You asked "But I would also like to ask, since he is in exile in spiritual Siberia (in comparison to Liberty), at what point should he just be left alone? Just asking... I mean if he goes somewhere else, should he be hounded and everyone make sure he gets fired there? What about his wife and children?"

My answer is that the blogs, the media attention is not about "hounding" Caner or attempting to get him fired (which is what Caner's defenders tried to do with James White, by the way). It is really bigger than Caner. It is about the refusal of religious institutions who say they represent God on earth and collect God's "tithes" to hold accountable a serial liar who has done harm to the church. I blog not to hound Caner, but to hopefully inform unsuspecting people about Caner.

The more reporters like Shipp expose the antics of a Caner, the less likely it is that there will be another Caner. The less likely a Caner will get a speaking gig somewhere. If a church lay leader is informed about Caner and they find out their pastor is paying Caner to come speak to the youth, that lay person can hopefully do something about it - or at least warn parents.

But thanks for checking in, would love to converse with you about this.

And to answer your question about if he has admitted any wrong doing: no, only to say that he has misspoken about minor details in his sermons. He has been defiant, saying it will take more than disgrunted bloggers to take him down.

I pray that Dr. Caner can come to a place where he can be reconciled and restored, for his sake and for his family. It's hard for all of us to swallow our pride and admit when we are wrong, lying is very hard to admit. I pray will give him the grace to do so.

Actually, on this blog by many, Ergun's sin until repented of before the necessary men and women on this blog and beyond means continual condemnation.

Proof from New BBC:

"I'd say that day will be here when Ergun Caner takes ownership of the lies he's been living for the past 10 years, publicly apologizes (not to humiliate him but a sincere public apology to the thousands he's lied to... publicly), and drops the "you can't touch me" act. (Hmmm... reminds me of a video.) As long as he continues to arrogantly go on as if he did nothing wrong, I hope the bloggers never let up."

"I agree. We need to allow only those who are sympathetic to the purpose of this blog to comment. Supporters of Caner, FBCJ, Gaines and those like them add nothing to the needed conversation here."

Nice straw-man argument TROLL. Dissent is not the issue. Inteligence is. As in your comments lack anything other than cult-like man-worhship. We get it. Baptist mega-pastors can do no wrong in your silly little world.

And it's clear that you are posting under several aliases now. Supporting yourself (its not like anyone else would) with the same rediculous capital letters and exaclamation points.

Your comments are pointless and server no purpose. They should be removed from this site.

"So, how does that equal permanent condemnation. Please show us where a Christian is advised to ignore sin when another brother refuses to confess his sins.

Are you really this obtuse or are you trying to be funny? For your sake, I'm hoping its the latter."

You have not ignored the sin. You have dealt with it, over and over. Until you let go of other peoples sin, something you can do nothing about: 1 - after you have shown you are aware, 2 - called on them to repent, 3 - exposed them until it becomes boring. It comes across as if there is an obsession or this subject has so much control over your life it has become unhealthy.

But until there is a public repentance, something only God can lead Ergun to do now it is permanent condemnation. Read the comments, the discussion quickly goes from a list of sins to slander of the person.

"I agree. We need to allow only those who are sympathetic to the purpose of this blog to comment. Supporters of Caner, FBCJ, Gaines and those like them add nothing to the needed conversation here."

That's another straw-man argument TROLL. And by the way, we know it is you agreeing with yourself anonymously when you use ALL CAPS and five exclamation marks in your anonymous comments. Come on. At least make it a challenge.

The problem isn't that this blog doesn't want comments that are not in agreement. The problem is that your comments are childish, uneducated, kool-aid drinking, man-worshiping, proof-texting, culture rather than scripture driven drivel.

"Until you let go of other peoples sin, something you can do nothing about: 1 - after you have shown you are aware, 2 - called on them to repent, 3 - exposed them until it becomes boring. It comes across as if there is an obsession or this subject has so much control over your life it has become unhealthy."

I would advise you to take your own advice. You seem completely obsessed with this blog and/or anyone who upholds a biblical model of discipline.

The TROLL is the king of the straw-man argument. No one is blaming God for anything. You are being blamed (rightly so) for not following biblical precent and for thinking that God's standards don't apply to a mega-pastor.

"If you don't like the use of the term permanent, I'll be more than happy to change it to continual."

It's not that I don't like the word. It's the wrong word for what you are trying to communicate.

Again the condemnation will disapear just as soon as Caner follows the Bible's instructions.

One Anon said:I think you [Watchdog] are a cry baby loving the lime light personally.

That's pretty funny, given that the Watchdog wished to remain anonymous so that the focus would be on what he was saying and not on him personally. I'm quite sure he would rather have retained that anonymity if it had been left up to him.

Another Anon said:So I guess all the people Dr. Caner led to Christ's salvation is annulled right?

God can get out His message and do His work through any vessel He chooses, even a jackass. But the jackass remains a jackass.

Ai yi YI, how many people are going to defend these church leaders who hold their members to higher standards than they themselves can meet?

Even McDonalds will fire people for lying on their applications. Now someone entrusted with people's souls is held to a lesser standard?

This is just like Marcus Lamb from Daystar with his 10-year affair. This followers were so quick to forgive him and attacked anyone who dared talk about it or question it. But you can bet they'd never let a neighbor forget it, especially if he or she was a "nobody."

If YOU even so much as ask a simple question a church policy, you will get slammed.

This is not about forgiveness. It's about classism. It's about people being enthralled with the wealth generated by the church, and their willingness to grovel around on their hands and knees to be a part of it. But you're not a part of it. You're just paying for it. This is not rocket science here!

Many people are hurt by these greedy churches. And I'm sure that information like what is presented on this blog has a healing effect for many.

Your church isn't going to do that for you. Well, if you profess an endless stream of money and unquestioning devotion, I suppose it MIGHT.

But I'm guessing a lot of you have a better chance at winning the lottery.

I am sick of watching these churches asking people to sign all kinds of pledges for honesty and conduct while they have zero accountability to the members who pay their salaries.

I'm sick of watching pastors beat up welfare moms who can't afford to give to the church. Instead of helping these people get directed into job training or education programs, they tell them the only way out of their current life is giving 10 percent. It is an utter LIE.

They are a dictatorship bashing people down and teaching people how to live in poverty and still give to the church like a bunch of third world slaves. They are not helping anyone.

My "ex" church does virtually NOTHING to help out in the surrounding communities. Absolutely nothing except a once-yearly visit to a homeless shelter and Christmas gift cards for disadvantaged families. And then the members are asked to donate the money, food baskets and clothes for these things.

The church takes nothing out of its own huge budget but then takes runs ads on their projection screens taking credit for helping all of these people.

They enjoy making disadvantaged people feel frustrated. They enjoy browbeating them about tithing and then still watching them grovel and cry because they need a food basket. I am sick of looking at this!!!!! Over and over again I've seen them do this.

The only church I've seen even attempt to help the disadvantaged is New Life in Colorado. I've seen stories about them setting up medical care facilities and offering jobs to homeless people. I don't know anything else about that mega church but they're the only ones I've even heard of doing this.

Lying is sin. Rahab lied. Prostitution is sin. Rahab was a prostitute. Rahab, just like everyone else, including us, was a sinner. Rahab chose to go with the people of God. Was Rahab a repentant liar? Was Rahab a repentant sinner? Was Rahab forgiven of her sins, including her sin/sins of lying and prostitution?

Has Ergun Caner truly repented of his deliberate, sinful lying and misleading of people? Is he forgiven? If he hasn’t truly repented then how can he possibly be forgiven by God?

Psalm 32:5 I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD," and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah

Psalm 38:18 I confess my iniquity; I am sorry for my sin.

2 Corinthians 7:9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. 10For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

If you knew your "lie" could help someone understand salvation, wouldn't you lie?

Caner aim is to destroy Christianity through making people accept lies while working fro Richard Lamb of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) which believes Muslims and Christian can work in their common beliefs. Your spirit must be broken and as it seem a lot are not accepting it at FBCJ. I do love Pastor Brunson although he is confused.

If you knew your "lie" could help someone understand salvation, wouldn't you lie?

If your "lie" was used to bring glory to God, wouldn't you lie?

If your "lie" opened doors to show the lies of Islam, wouldn't you lie?

Thought so......................

June 24, 2011 9:46 PM"

Show me in the bible where it says God wants me to lie to spread the word or try to win someone to Jesus and your argument will stand.

The problem is that when your man lies to lead someone to Jesus and then they found out he lied, they could (and rightfully so) think that Christianity is a sham because Caner or whoever led them to Jesus did so under false pretenses.

I mean think about it why should they trust in Jesus when the man who helped lead them to Jesus, the man told them how awesome Jesus was, the man who showed them the "truth" was a fraudster, thief and liar? Not a very becoming witness in Christ if you ask me!

"If you knew your "lie" could help someone understand salvation, wouldn't you lie?

If your "lie" was used to bring glory to God, wouldn't you lie?

If your "lie" opened doors to show the lies of Islam, wouldn't you lie?

Thought so......................

June 24, 2011 9:46 PM"

NO!

NO!

NO!

That has to be one of the dumbest, most anti-Biblical, Christ-dishonoring pieces of Satanic-inspired pieces of nonsense I've ever read. And I'm not surprised in the least that it came from one of E. Michael Caner's fanboys.

Another person wrote: Caner's aim is to destroy Christianity through making people accept lies while working for Richard Lamb of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) which believes Muslims and Christian can work in their common beliefs.

That explains why this person keeps getting promoted no matter what he does.

Sad to see how far First Baptist has come since Dr. Lindsay died. None of this garbage would be happening if he were still the Pastor. Since Mac Brunson became Pastor, First Baptist is now the third largest church in Jacksonville because so many people have left. I remember when Madalyn Murray O'hare's son was supposed to come to First Baptist to talk to us but a week before he was to come Dr. Lindsay got up in the pulpit and told us he had to cancel his appearance because he had to protect the pulpit. Now we have a preacher who abuses the pulpit.

Let's face it modernism and Christian marketing is destroying the fabric of true Christianity in America. Has anyone looked at Mike Warnke's rise to the top? For what I understood there was suspicion of his issues way before the mid-eighties because there were those who knew he had issues of affairs up till then. Caner does not need to necessarily to be berated but explained as to how ministers need to be released and go back to and do something else. There is no booting out necessary for a minister just simple demotion (of their egos as well). They need to learn the fundamentals of grace and good work ethic all over again and avoid "the stage" mentality that many elders have gotten into. Ministers are to be shepherds not stagemen.

Isn't this whole Caner thing similar to a talented football player or baseball player getting a pass on some ugly stuff they've done? It seems to come down to-if you have enough talent to bring in money for an organization, your sins will be explained away. You are simply too valuable to the organization.

It's when it all gets so overwhelmingly embarrassing to the organization that you switch from an asset to a liability. Then the pressure will be put upon you by the insiders.

Then you can go elsewhere and lie low if possible, hoping most people don't know about your past. So then you start up with your winning ways that work pretty well on a fresh audience. You'll be deceiving the new people by simply leaving out the ugly information about yourself-well, you might say you're an undeserving sinner like everybody else, but the one thing you won't do is get into those specific sins, because that might put some of them-the thinkers-on alert.

What an exciting yesterday at church. I had my bible, pad of paper and pen in hand as I sat down to listen to the sermon. I took some great notes although I did find it difficult to listen to the sermon with the intent of finding errors. But I did it. I found 17 errors the pastor made during his monologue. I have the notes to prove it. Going to church has taken on a new meaning and this is going to be fun.

"What an exciting yesterday at church. I had my bible, pad of paper and pen in hand as I sat down to listen to the sermon. I took some great notes although I did find it difficult to listen to the sermon with the intent of finding errors. But I did it. I found 17 errors the pastor made during his monologue. I have the notes to prove it. Going to church has taken on a new meaning and this is going to be fun."

The joke is the TROLL posting under several different aliases - agreeing with himself.

Sharon said "Isn't this whole Caner thing similar to a talented football player or baseball player getting a pass on some ugly stuff they've done? It seems to come down to-if you have enough talent to bring in money for an organization, your sins will be explained away. You are simply too valuable to the organization"

Sharon, I think you said it perfectly. I couldn't agree with you more!

I also feel for Caner's wife. I have a feeling she has noticed the inconsistencies and wondered if some of the tall tales were true.

I don't think (and I don't even know her) that she is "in on it". Pathological liars have a way of making you feel terribly guilty and like you are an idiot when you express doubt. Just see how Casey Anthony treated her parents during jail visits. That is a perfect example. I am guessing (from experience) that she is being a good dutiful wife, trying to trust her husband and trying to preserve the marriage. She probably has a lot of bottled feelings she doesn't dare to express to anyone.

I can't imagine the pain she has probably felt over this whole thing. I certainly don't wish divorce on anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen someday because pathological liars don't change.

Did you really just compare CS Lewis' works of fiction to Caner's personal testimony?

Sure, the Chronicles of Narnia contained elements of the gospel. However, CS Lewis made no attempts to make these stories anything more than that, just wonderful stories of FICTION.

Sure, Caner shared the gospel, but his hook for the audience were complete fabrications of lies to make his own personal testimony all the more compelling. He tried to pass off fabrications of FICTION as the truth. He completely lied to congregations of believers in order to enrich himself through either increased appearance fees or to present such a compelling case for a love offering.

You guys keep glossing over little things like integrity, honesty, and honor when it comes to our pastors. You have to have some standards when you put someone behind the pulpit.

And forgiveness doesn't exempt from consequences. How many times do I have to say this. He has lied, he should have to face the consequences of his actions.

Otherwise, Mike Warnke would still be the foremost expert on Satanism.

"Isn't this whole Caner thing similar to a talented football player or baseball player getting a pass on some ugly stuff they've done?"

Sharon, you have nailed it. Caner is no more than a shock jock faux Christian celebrity these minds full of mush are entertained by. Note they have to change the definition of lying and of sin in order to defend him.

Tom, the trolls are trying to take your blog down...can you not block the IP?

I wonder why they don't spend their time conversing with Caner? Perhaps he won't blog with them.

I like the idea of having a place to talk about the subject of people lying, churches begging for money, megas meddling in our personal affairs and other important topics without the distraction of opposing views, no matter how stupid we think they are.

It's interesting that the mentality of this blog has reached a point to where opposing ideas are no longer welcome.

Issues aren't one sided, and in order for solutions to prevail both sides of the argument must come to an agreement.

This is not possible, however, if you simply shut out the opposing views of people with whom you have problems. But if that is indeed the case here, your blog will never come to mean anything or influence any kind of change.

Clicker

About Me

We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"