It's bad enough that freaking Joe Nieuwendyk is going in before Oates, Gilmour, Makarov, etc without someone like Bondra getting in. He is in no way shape or form qualified to be in the hall.

This. God do hockey fans even realize the HHOF is only for the best of the best? To be fair, the HOF has ****ed it up by allowing all sorts of undeserving candidates in and thus making their snubs look questionable.

I wouldn't have inducted Dino, but Bondra would be a significantly worse selection.

Dino was top 10 in points twice. Bondra never was. Dino brought loads of grit; Bondra didn't. Dino has fantastic goal scoring numbers in the playoffs; Bondra's scoring dropped like a rock in the playoffs.

Never Top 10 in points, not a factor when not scoring (in the NHL at least), never voted one of the top 3 RWs for any given regular season, awful playoff numbers.

He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne, there was a 6 year stretch where only Jagr had more goals.

He was also on the first PK unit of the Capitals, he had over 30 shorthanded goals. He is all over the Washington Capitals record book.

He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne, there was a 6 year stretch where only Jagr had more goals.

He was also on the first PK unit of the Capitals, he had over 30 shorthanded goals. He is all over the Washington Capitals record book.

Bondra was a great player, but just not great enough to get into HHoF.

Honest question I have for Kamzik: if Bondra was not Slovakian would you be pushing nearly as hard for his enshrinement? For some reason I believe not.

An honest question deserves an honest answer. Firstly it is Slovak, one wouldn't say Swedishian or Dutchian. Anyhow, I was just arguing on his behalf. I think playing so many years in Washington he was perhaps "under the radar". It saddens me that very few here agree with my opinion on him. I don't think I've ever seen a performance better than his at the 2002 World Championships. I believe in the entire tournament he was not on the ice for a single goal against, while leading the tournament in goals (including the championship winner).

If I say he was one of the fastest players ever, that is meaningless. Rico Fata was very fast. But he was one of the fastest players ever and he scored 500+ NHL goals. He is a great.

He was a guy scoring 50 goals when it was nearly impossible to score 50 goals. He had about the same number of goals in the 90s as Teemu Selanne, there was a 6 year stretch where only Jagr had more goals.

He was also on the first PK unit of the Capitals, he had over 30 shorthanded goals. He is all over the Washington Capitals record book.

I am pretty sure I would be all over the Capitals record book too. That isn't a huge accomplishment. This is a team that has been to the Cup final once in their 37 years of existance. They have Langway and maybe Gartner as their best players of all-time and these are their only two legit HHOFers (and with Gartner it's borderline that he's a true Capital). By comparison, if you bragged about who holds the team records for the Hartford/Carolina franchise it would be the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadArcand

Yet he'd be still much better induction than Ciccarelli.

Hard to justify that Bondra was better than Ciccarelli. You have to remember, Bondra did NOTHING if he wasn't scoring goals. Nothing in the mold of Pavel Bure. Ciccarelli was chippy at least, he fought, he wasn't awful defensively. And even if you are comparing them solely as goal scorers Bondra is barely better.

An honest question deserves an honest answer. Firstly it is Slovak, one wouldn't say Swedishian or Dutchian. Anyhow, I was just arguing on his behalf. I think playing so many years in Washington he was perhaps "under the radar". It saddens me that very few here agree with my opinion on him. I don't think I've ever seen a performance better than his at the 2002 World Championships. I believe in the entire tournament he was not on the ice for a single goal against, while leading the tournament in goals (including the championship winner).

If I say he was one of the fastest players ever, that is meaningless. Rico Fata was very fast. But he was one of the fastest players ever and he scored 500+ NHL goals. He is a great.

The World Championships are fine, but when you dominate a tournament that consists of the best players in the world either in the NHL playoffs or on the golf course it doesn't say much. If he dominated the 2002 Olympics, then we'll talk, but he didn't and he was awful in the postseason per his skill level.

Also, he only ever scored goals. If this is all you can do, you'd better do it better than anyone else in the world but he didn't. Bure, Selanne and even Jagr would be classified as better goal scorers during that era. I hate to say it, but Keith Tkachuk is right there with him too.

Being one-dimensional means you have to have that one dimension so immense that it is impossible to ignore. Bondra didn't have that.

Hard to justify that Bondra was better than Ciccarelli. You have to remember, Bondra did NOTHING if he wasn't scoring goals. Nothing in the mold of Pavel Bure. Ciccarelli was chippy at least, he fought, he wasn't awful defensively. And even if you are comparing them solely as goal scorers Bondra is barely better.

They're not really that far though... Ciccarelli was not demonstrably better than Bondra defensively. And Bondra's record as a penalty killer (both by scoring and by not getting scored on) is pretty incredible.

I am pretty sure I would be all over the Capitals record book too. That isn't a huge accomplishment.

Then Phil, why aren't you? Of course it is a big accomplishment, and it will be a big accomplishment by Alexander Ovechkin when years from now he breaks those records.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil

The World Championships are fine, but when you dominate a tournament that consists of the best players in the world either in the NHL playoffs or on the golf course it doesn't say much. If he dominated the 2002 Olympics, then we'll talk, but he didn't and he was awful in the postseason per his skill level.

If that is how you feel about the World Championships, then quite honestly you and I don't have a discussion. We see things so differently that we don't even have a starting point. If by the way World Championships count for naught, I'm not sure why Larionov is there or Tretiak, or why Makarov is currently under consideration. -added note, Slovakia was not able to use NHL players in the Olympics until Turin Italy in 2006 so that minimizes Bondra's impact as an Olympian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Being one-dimensional

It is about the 4th time you've written that, or that Bondra did nothing while not scoring. You didn't really respond to me pointing out he was for years on the Capitals first PK unit. Anyhow, every hockey player has three dimensions unless they are on TV in which case they only have two.

Never Top 10 in points, not a factor when not scoring (in the NHL at least), never voted one of the top 3 RWs for any given regular season, awful playoff numbers.

Even leading the NHL 2 times he wasn't an allstar, too one dimensional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe

I wouldn't have inducted Dino, but Bondra would be a significantly worse selection.

Dino was top 10 in points twice. Bondra never was. Dino brought loads of grit; Bondra didn't. Dino has fantastic goal scoring numbers in the playoffs; Bondra's scoring dropped like a rock in the playoffs.

Dino is better IMO as well

Bondra's peak in goalscoring was 3rd from 95-99 (sorry can't get the link to work) but he is the 15-20th range of the top 20 players listed in terms of the type of guy a team would want in real life in order to win. Great fantasy guy, especially in goal scoring leagues. Poor playoffs sealed the deal for him as well.

Even leading the NHL 2 times he wasn't an allstar, too one dimensional.

Even if you got me to agree that Peter Bondra was a one dimensional player, which I don't by the way, you will certainly not get me to agree that everyone in the HHOF has more than "one dimension".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardyvan123

Even leading the NHL 2 times he wasn't an allstar, too one dimensional.
Bondra's peak in goalscoring was 3rd from 95-99 (sorry can't get the link to work) but he is the 15-20th range of the top 20 players listed in terms of the type of guy a team would want in real life in order to win.

I put that in Google Translate to convert Canadian to English and it came out as "Peter Bondra has no heart cause he is not Timmy Johnson born in Kapuskasing Ontario".

Kamzik please, stop embarrassing yourself. I am a fan of Bondra, I agree that he is really underrated borderline player who should be in debate and to be honest, some of the posters are beating a dead horse.
But your arguing is on kindergarden level

An honest question deserves an honest answer. Firstly it is Slovak, one wouldn't say Swedishian or Dutchian. Anyhow, I was just arguing on his behalf. I think playing so many years in Washington he was perhaps "under the radar". It saddens me that very few here agree with my opinion on him. I don't think I've ever seen a performance better than his at the 2002 World Championships. I believe in the entire tournament he was not on the ice for a single goal against, while leading the tournament in goals (including the championship winner).

If I say he was one of the fastest players ever, that is meaningless. Rico Fata was very fast. But he was one of the fastest players ever and he scored 500+ NHL goals. He is a great.

i watched plenty of the Capitals in the late 90s. And Olaf Kolzig was their best player by a fairly wide margin. And I don't see anyone clamoring to induct Ollie the Goalie

Hold on, even Miro Satan was better than Ray Sheppard. Sheppard is nowhere near Bondra level.
After all it seems to me that some of you would put Bondra somewhere in Bill Guerin tier...

I guess I should've put the smiley in there.

I'm just saying that Bondra was very one dimensional. He was a sniper and very good at it. Not HHOF worthy IMO. Guerin wasn't one dimensional and also had some fantastic playoff stretches, including a few Stanley Cups. If Bondra would've had some similar playoff stretches and Stanley Cups, I think you can make the argument for him.