Legally they don't have to give back anything extra over the then value of $470 or whatever. Now Mark could distribute more, let's say half of the remaining BTCs as a goodwill and he would still stay a 100 millionaire, but he doesn't have to. If I were him I would probably do that so every customer would have a 100-200% return, what is way less what BTC did, but way more than any other investment would have done. If some customers sue him later on, they have less of a standing when they have a multiplied account value.

Hell he could pay them back 4 times their 2014 value and still have 40K BTCs left over...

Legally they don't have to give back anything extra over the then value of $470 or whatever.

I know, but he already stated that he doesn't want any of it. He made plenty stupid and irresponsible decisions in his delusion of being able to get MtGox back on track. I don't think he wants to take that much money from so many people who may not have a legal, but certainly a legitimate claim on those funds.

If there is a way to distribute the remaining BTC, I'm confident he will do exactly that. Feel free to make fun of this post in a couple of years, if he doesn't.

I don't have a problem if he keeps a little % for himself, let's say 5 -10 millions bucks. It would be good life insurance for him to distribute the rest, if you get 400% back, you are less likely to be grumpy about it. And let's face it half of the people trading bitcoins would lose their accounts anyway. :)

I don't see why any business person in their right mind would want to re-launch a business with such a tarnished reputation and brand. I couldn't imagine anyone trusting it regardless of whether under new management or not.

he'll receive it anyway with less blame. It's a trick. For example if i go and tell everyone that i don't really need the paycheck from work, it doesn't mean that i can't go later to the bank and cash it out.

After claims are paid, what's left over does belong to the company. Now, what he does at that point is the bigger question. I seriously doubt the court would say they'd take on the work of distributing it. Their responsibility is finished.

It's like an inmate who doesn't want to leave prison (it's a thing). The prison says, "We don't care. We're not going to pay to feed and house you, until a court tells us we are required to."

Would you accept $400m if you knew exactly that they may be legally, but not rightfully yours? That taking that money would directly destroy thousands of lifes? Just from a self-preservation viewpoint, you'd probably be very careful.

like any international money transfer to you home account, it will be converted to one of the currencies your account supports by your bank (usually just one). If you have a good bank, it will be for a very fair rate. If not, they might rip you off. PayPal usually rips you off for example.

That doesn't make it fair. If I were a creditor I'd be miffed at the outcome.

Maybe Karpeles will do something amazingly cool with the remaining BTC, recognizing that it more rightly belongs with the customers of Mt. Gox. If he distributed most/all of it, when he no longer has any legal compulsion to do so, he'd really turn his legacy around.

Your objection is duly noted, but legally they belong to his company. Deal with it. Customers are only entitled to their cash account value. Not to mention there aren't enough BTCs to give back, only cash.

The coins are not Mark's. They should be distributed pro rata to the customers. He is a bailee of the property not the owner. Those coins are his the same way your stuff in a ministorage would become the property of the owner of the ministorage if he was criminally irresponsible and left the gate open and some of the units were robbed.

I hear you, except there aren't enough coins. Now Mark might decide to distribute all of them, but he doesn't have to.

Let's say you have a broker account at Ameritrade and you own Netflix shares. Then it is supposed to be stolen. Few years later they find it and NFLX went up. But the broker (and the government) will give you the value at the time of the theft. Why? Because what if they never found the stocks? What if the value dropped to half in the missing years? Would you want the current value then? Sure not...

And that is a perfectly logical reasoning. The only reason customers want the current value because it went up.

edit: Regarding there not being enough, the remaining coins should simply be distributed pro rata along with the cash value of the coins already sold.

Are you a Japanese lawyer? You're saying he doesn't have to distribute the coins legally confidently and I strongly suspect time will prove you wrong. In America there is a concept of unjust enrichment and that certainly would seem to apply to the this case. We are also ignoring a lot. There are other elements of damages, pain and suffering, pre-judgment interest, bailor/bailee law. Why are you so confident that the court is going to arrive at a ruling that flies in the face of justice and common sense and would be a huge black eye on the Japanese legal system?

All of the coins that were not robbed still have fork coins that have never been valued by the trustee. There lays the golden eggs of the golden goose kept in the ministorage. Who cares if there was 800,000 geese & only 200,000 eggs to dive among 24,000 owners. I hope no one else sits idly by & lets them steal the eggs also.

Bankruptcy means that all liabilities of the bankrupt entity are frozen to their yen value (or monetary value in local currency for countries other than Japan) as of the start of bankruptcy. This is true for cash liabilities, securities, properties, etc. except some specific cases.

If MtGox is solvent again, can't you just have MtGox itself distribute out the remaining BTC proportionally to folks who held balances on MtGox back in the day? I'm assuming you still have the records, is there any reason you can't do it if the trustee doesn't?

Well, personally I didn't even trust your exchange prior to it's collapse so you only owe me about $1.50 I couldn't get out. But obviously nobody would expect you to be the sole person involved in such an operation, you could partner with an exchange with a good track record of security and that offers custodial services to help sort this out. I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer that to your trustee market selling the remaining 160K BTC and destroying it's value.

Do You consider to reopen MtGOX ? You could put remain BTCs to proper user accounts. Then You could refund losses to users by sharing of trade commisions. It will take years or maybe it will never refund all, but users will receive some portion of losses in time and they will trade over there for that reason. Anyway bitcoinwsdom.com is still watching api of mtgox :) Do You considered such move ?

Um no, binance has already announced on twitter it was due to phishing attack. Also I have multiple confirmed reports from users I know in real life, that they lost funds, while had 2FA on the account, no trading bots or api activated previously, so binance system was possibly compromised. I guess it's also possible the hacker asked for the 2FA on the phishing site, and instantly generated the API key on the real site when they received the 2FA.

check the dates of the transactions and compare with the price. We don't know the trades, but it looks like he market sold thousands of bitcoins and drove the price down pretty hard. He also sold the bottom, 18k btc on feb 5/6

3/ The arrows on the chart below mark the dates of each Gox wallet transfer. Worth noting, these aren't the dates of the sales, those most likely happened right after, these are the dates of the transfers to the exchange.

Mt Gox was insolvent before Mark even got it. BTC-E and Alex are currently accused by the US Government of hacking it (and basically every exchange) and selling their laundered bitcoin at a discount for the whole decade!

Black on black crime was created by thug culture pushed by clandestine operations in the alphabet agencies. First destroy the family, then flood the drugs, and finally the welfare state. Rinse and repeat. Lyndon B. Johnson's "Great Society"

They still haven't given anything to the creditors, anyway... yes, exactly, they are intended to return the past value of the BTC, not the present one. That, unless some other trial, after a complaint, will establish otherwise.

The downward pressure on the price from such sales is pretty enormous. I read on Bloomberg that the sales have been ongoing since September. Assuming the started on September 1st, that's 187 days. There were only approx 33,600 Bitcoin mined since then.

Pretty remarkable to think about how many Bitcoin early whales really have.

Edit: forgot to multiply by 12.5. Actually, I’m not sure what the hell kind of math I was doing. 336,000 Bitcoin mines over the timeframe. That’s what I get for waking up and punching a bunch of crap into Excel at 5AM

Bloomberg is wrong (as usual). The bitcoins was sold between December and February, according to the bankruptcy trustee. Which just means that the downward pressure was even bigger during those months.

On the other hand your calculations are wrong. Approximately 160 000 bitcoins were mined December through February.

Mtgox was the biggest exchange back in 2014. Back then there was pretty much all the trading on this exchange (I am speaking about 80% of all the volume).

The exchange had an issue in their code. That allowed it that somebody was able to steal over a long time. This hacker was able to steal 3/4 of the btc (600k / 800k). At some point the exchange was shut down (still in 2014, when the big crash happened), and eversince there is a lawsuit going on about the remaining 200k btc (for over 4 years now).

interesting tidbit: Japanese law (which applies because that's where mtgox was based) requires that claimants get back the value of their product at the time of bankruptcy. This means that each bitcoin lost by a claimant is going to be valued at $400. The 200k BTC still in mtgox's ownership is now worth far more than the total value of what is owed to claimants. This means MtGox went bankrupt, its owner got a nice vacation in jail, then stepped out of his cell as a multibillionaire.

Way worse. It put the entire cryptospace in such a bad light. So many people gave up and we have seen the longest bear market of all the times. I ended up selling some btc at 200€ / coin after that because it crushed me aswell

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