Since 2000 they have fired a few hitting coaches, a pitching coach, a handful of base coaches, and a manager. That is all I can remember in my buzzed state. the question: Is it now Kenny's time to go? He has had a few hits, but he has also had some big time misses. The minor leagues are depleated and he did not do anything at the deadline this year when it is OBVIOUS we need help. We could have had a Finley, LaDuca, etc. If you don't trade to become contenders then trade away some dead weight and reload your farm. I think this season was over when Torii Hunter bulldozed Burke, stomped on the plate, followed up by the Sox putting their tail between their legs and taking it. NO retaliation. That was embarassing.

OEO Magglio

08-01-2004, 03:00 AM

Is it now Kenny's time to go? NO.

Nellie_Fox

08-01-2004, 03:29 AM

The minor leagues are depleated and he did not do anything at the deadline this year when it is OBVIOUS we need help. We could have had a Finley, LaDuca, etc. You answered your own question. Who did you expect the Sox to trade for LoDuca? They are tapped out.

Kenny has been aggressive and has tried to get the Sox over the hump. He couldn't recover from the loss of Frank and Maggs. Not his fault.

misty60481

08-01-2004, 09:40 AM

I agree Hunter took all our steam away---Ozzies fault ?????

cornball

08-01-2004, 10:05 AM

The heads that will roll will be that of some players, not the staff.

What has amazed me over this stretch of losses ..... is the inability to hit a grounder to the right side with a runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs. CLee yesterday, Bourchard the other day and there are others I forgot about.

If your not hitting you have to do these things and play outstanding in the field, which they have not done.

Lip Man 1

08-01-2004, 02:04 PM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season. Gone are the days of the station to station, try to hit a six run home run philosophy.

I don't know if the Sox can pull this change off in one season but I think you are going to see the start of it.

In are guys who can run, guys who get on base, guys who have a 'baseball IQ,' and guys who have shown they can actually bunt, hit and run, and advance runners.

You already seen the start of it by Williams trying to solidify his starting pitching, that's an area (pitching) that is also going to be emphasized.

Lip

TornLabrum

08-01-2004, 03:59 PM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season. Gone are the days of the station to station, try to hit a six run home run philosophy.

I don't know if the Sox can pull this change off in one season but I think you are going to start the start of hit.

In are guys who can run, guys who get on base, guys who have a 'baseball IQ,' and guys who have shown they can actually bunt, hit and run, and advance runners.

You already seen the start of it by Williams trying to solidify his starting pitching, that's an area (pitching) that is also going to be emphasized.

Lip
Might as well make a note of something I wrote this morning (before today's game, obviously) about this club. It seems that our offense has about a 2-game attention span. Last week they won a couple of games playing some small ball, so what did they do last Sunday? They started swinging for the fences again, as they have through most of the losing streak.

I made the suggestion that KW blow this club up since they can't learn. Naturally today they won, with a balanced offense, like they did before the losing streak started. Let's see if this lasts for more than two games.

Nellie_Fox

08-02-2004, 01:54 AM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season. Gone are the days of the station to station, try to hit a six run home run philosophy.

I don't know if the Sox can pull this change off in one season but I think you are going to see the start of it.

In are guys who can run, guys who get on base, guys who have a 'baseball IQ,' and guys who have shown they can actually bunt, hit and run, and advance runners.

You already seen the start of it by Williams trying to solidify his starting pitching, that's an area (pitching) that is also going to be emphasized.

LipOh, how I hope you're right, Lip.

jeremyb1

08-02-2004, 02:03 AM

I don't think anyone's head will roll. The coaching staff has seemingly done a good job and as you mentioned we haven't had our coaches for very long. Frank and Maggs going down is a pretty good built in excuse for struggling this season. As most know, my personal viewpoint is that by adopting a win now strategy, a GM is taking on such risks and should be held responsible if the team does not win now. However, JR seems very loyal to KW and if this message board is any indication most Sox fans are huge Kenny Williams fans. My guess is that the tide will change in the coming seasons as we lack the resources to add top players and anything better than a mediocre farm system at this point but for now it seemingly wouldn't make a lot of sense for JR to fire KW unless he has major problems with the moves he's made this season which I highly doubt.

jeremyb1

08-02-2004, 02:04 AM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season.

In are guys who can run, guys who get on base, guys who have a 'baseball IQ,' and guys who have shown they can actually bunt, hit and run, and advance runners.

I'd love nothing more than to stress OBP with this club but I feel that as GM, KW has repeatedly stressed tools over plate discipline. I guess we'll have to see.

Wealz

08-02-2004, 11:57 AM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season. Gone are the days of the station to station, try to hit a six run home run philosophy.

I don't know if the Sox can pull this change off in one season but I think you are going to see the start of it.

In are guys who can run, guys who get on base, guys who have a 'baseball IQ,' and guys who have shown they can actually bunt, hit and run, and advance runners.

You already seen the start of it by Williams trying to solidify his starting pitching, that's an area (pitching) that is also going to be emphasized.

Lip
I'm partial to Earl Weaver's pitching and 3-run homer philosphy.

SoxxoS

08-02-2004, 12:25 PM

I'd love nothing more than to stress OBP with this club but I feel that as GM, KW has repeatedly stressed tools over plate discipline. I guess we'll have to see.
What??? Joe Borchard is a regular Frank Thomas with the way he gets on base! I am sure glad he is so "toolsy."

It's time to end the Borchard experiment. He has cost us arguably 2 games with a failure to get a runner on 3B in with less than 2 outs.

He is turning into Drew Henson at an easier position to fill. But opposite of Drew, I don't think he can hack it as an NFL QB, either.

Flight #24

08-02-2004, 12:36 PM

What??? Joe Borchard is a regular Frank Thomas with the way he gets on base! I am sure glad he is so "toolsy."

It's time to end the Borchard experiment. He has cost us arguably 2 games with a failure to get a runner on 3B in with less than 2 outs.

He is turning into Drew Henson at an easier position to fill. But opposite of Drew, I don't think he can hack it as an NFL QB, either.

Borchard was a Schueler draftee, no? Not sure that his failure falls on KW. And for all those saying KW valued Borchard over Reed, there's no indication of that. KW's talked up Joe, but you can't really do anything else with your top prospects. I don't think Seattle wanted Joe over Jeremy in that deal. It wasn't like Kenny said "Borchard's off limits, you can have Reed", it was more "Crede's off limits, wioll you take one of our minor league OFs instead?".

Whatever you may think of Crede, I think a young 3B with potential and some decent batting history is harder to replace than a corner OF playing CF out of necessity. Plus, with Anderson, Sweeney, Rowand, Lee, Maggs all available at the time, the replaceability facotr was that much greater for the Sox.

habibharu

08-02-2004, 01:18 PM

KW must GO

KingXerxes

08-02-2004, 01:26 PM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season. Gone are the days of the station to station, try to hit a six run home run philosophy.

I don't know if the Sox can pull this change off in one season but I think you are going to see the start of it.

In are guys who can run, guys who get on base, guys who have a 'baseball IQ,' and guys who have shown they can actually bunt, hit and run, and advance runners.

You already seen the start of it by Williams trying to solidify his starting pitching, that's an area (pitching) that is also going to be emphasized.

Lip
:KW

"You're right Lip. And to show how committed I am to our new "Speed, Youth and Intelligence Program" I've just offered Jose Valentin a three year $25 million extension. He'll continue as official Heart and Soul of the Chicago American League Ballclub."

JB98

08-02-2004, 01:32 PM

I'm partial to Earl Weaver's pitching and 3-run homer philosphy.
Me too, but we are going to need a better bullpen to employ this philosophy. Not to mention, someone needs to get Garland to pull his head out of his ass. We'll see what Contreras can do. He has a great stuff, but a history of soiling himself in big games.

I don't think any heads are going to roll this year. The KW-haters are well entrenched here, but I'm not one of them. I appreciate his desire to win. I can't blame the coaching staff. We have a slightly better record now than we did at this time last season. And, of course, last year we had Colon, a Cy Young caliber season from Loaiza, Flash in the 'pen and a healthy Maggs and Frank. It's too bad Ozzie didn't get a chance to manage last year's group. We were clearly a more talented team in 2003 than we are now.

gosox41

08-02-2004, 01:37 PM

Borchard was a Schueler draftee, no? Not sure that his failure falls on KW. And for all those saying KW valued Borchard over Reed, there's no indication of that. KW's talked up Joe, but you can't really do anything else with your top prospects. I don't think Seattle wanted Joe over Jeremy in that deal. It wasn't like Kenny said "Borchard's off limits, you can have Reed", it was more "Crede's off limits, wioll you take one of our minor league OFs instead?".

Whatever you may think of Crede, I think a young 3B with potential and some decent batting history is harder to replace than a corner OF playing CF out of necessity. Plus, with Anderson, Sweeney, Rowand, Lee, Maggs all available at the time, the replaceability facotr was that much greater for the Sox.
According to some here, KW was running the 1999 and 2000 drafts. Depends on who you ask and what your definition is of 'running' a draft is. I've read enough opinions of insiders and outsiders here to beleive taht KW should definitely get some poriton of the credit/blame for the 2000 draft.

Bob

wdelaney72

08-02-2004, 01:44 PM

Ozzie will demand massive player changes this off season. Gone are the days of the station to station, try to hit a six run home run philosophy.

Lip
I'll believe this when it happens. Last year, Kenny said he wanted "grinders". Yet the batting lineup is quite similar to last year.

One may consider Jose Valentin a "grinder", but he still sucks. He bat .237 last year, and sucked in the field, yet he was back on the team this year. His numbers this year are quite similar. Many on this board are still looking for "pop", which is the last thing the Sox need. Nine guys in the lineup who can all get on base are WAY better than a bunch of power hitters.

I'm tired of the criticsm of Crede and Harris. Valentin is supposed to be a leader on this team. When does his head get to role?

jeremyb1

08-02-2004, 06:49 PM

Borchard was a Schueler draftee, no? Not sure that his failure falls on KW. And for all those saying KW valued Borchard over Reed, there's no indication of that.

I don't know. There were certainly reports leaked that KW deemed Borchard virtually untouchable. He didn't want to move him. You can argue he was trying to build up his value I suppose but I have my doubts. If you ever hear KW talk about Borchard, he seems obssessed with his tools and his potential. He seems convinced that it's just a matter of time and that Joe's problems are almost entirely mental. Obviously this is all speculation but in my personal opinion, KW talks more glowingly about Borchard than any other player in the system (or that has been in the system since he was GM for that matter). He was the director of player development when he was drafted so he was obviously somewhat involved in the decision.

habibharu

08-02-2004, 06:51 PM

I don't know. There were certainly reports leaked that KW deemed Borchard virtually untouchable. He didn't want to move him. You can argue he was trying to build up his value I suppose but I have my doubts. If you ever hear KW talk about Borchard, he seems obssessed with his tools and his potential. He seems convinced that it's just a matter of time and that Joe's problems are almost entirely mental. Obviously this is all speculation but in my personal opinion, KW talks more glowingly about Borchard than any other player in the system (or that has been in the system since he was GM for that matter). He was the director of player development when he was drafted so he was obviously somewhat involved in the decision. i think he did say that borchard was untouchable. And he tried to trade sweeney for Cliff freakin Floyd!

DVsoxfan

08-02-2004, 09:04 PM

Someone needs to light a fire under Jon Garland. He has something to prove. Also, why get rid of KW when all he is trying to do is get this team a WS ring?

gosox41

08-03-2004, 09:01 AM

Someone needs to light a fire under Jon Garland. He has something to prove. Also, why get rid of KW when all he is trying to do is get this team a WS ring?
Because he's not doing a very good job of it.