It's not that easy to get proof based on web links. But I hope that you can see that something must be wrong here. The list of schools is to long to have visited all in Japan, let alone have practiced.

And in your reply I can see you are doubting the lineage.

I can't find any evidence that mr. Sterke practiced in any of the schools marked in red. So if there is anyone that can proof me wrong...

Doubting lineage IS NOT the same as calling someone a fake, a fraud or a liar without proof. You have to PROVE your assertion, no one has to "proof" YOU wrong.

It's not that easy to get proof based on web links.

You need to go read some of our investigative threads while I laugh at this statement.

But I hope that you can see that something must be wrong here. The list of schools is to long to have visited all in Japan, let alone have practiced.

You not finding evidence doesn't make your position a FACT. Seeing that something is wrong doesn't mean I get to scream FAKE.

Originally Posted by FYT

Its not a secret as far as I know...but I only practice Shin Tai Ryu, No Koryus.
Beyond everyone ranting their claims here I did not have much interest in them yet.
(Because I can't fit it in my current shedule)

So far "I've" only had workshops with a school for Asayama Ichiden-ryu (a Koryu style)
Besides that we've obviously had more non-Koryu (or unbeknownst to be Koryu to me) schools come around.

So thats at least 1 out of many for me... we'll see if I'll actually encounter more eventually.

You may be ESL, but you may want to look up rant. Your rage quit post is the only rant in this thread.

Mark has never claimed to have trained in all the Japanese traditions mentioned in his website, or to offer the complete curriculum or a graduation in the traditional Japanese schools. Do not twist his words or misinterpret his intentions, as so often is done in this discussion. He offers merely an introduction to a few traditions in a workshop or seminar. He just wants to offer people, who do not have the opportunity to go to train in Japan, a chance to get to know a few techniques that are trained in certain traditional schools. This is not uncommon in Japan in schools that do not have a direct lineage to a traditional Japanese school, but as purists and keepers of the Japanese culture you obviously know better than the Japanese people themselves. In Japan by the way, there are no such discussions where they put so much filth on the internet. Japanese people are more polite and have more respect for each others skills. My advice: you should make an example out of this and act in a true budo spirit.

Mark does not claim to be a Japanese tradition, so he is free to do whatever he thinks is helpful to his students. He always does this with great respect for, and knowledge of, the Japanese culture.

Shin Tai Ryu is a Dutch tradition in kobudo style, Mark does not pretend otherwise as is wrongfully suggested.

You may ask who Mark is to offer such introductions to traditional Japanese schools and kobudo, well, first of all he is a respected member of the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai. Like top-managers or top-sporters recognize each others talents and spirit, so do the true great kobudo practitioners. Everybody who has ever seen Mark in action or spoke to him, knows he is a true grandmaster. And this is proven bij his membership: you have to be an excellent practitioner of kobudo to be invited to become a member and it is a great honour.

Mark has the skills, after 40 years of intensive training and study of the Japanese traditional martial arts, including training since 1986 in one of the oldest martial traditions in Japan; Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu, to offer many kinds of teachings. That you think he may not do so, that is your opninion, not everybody thinks so, especially the people that matter (see below).

His work is certainly not an insult to Japanese culture or traditional martial arts as is suggested in this discussion, on the contrary. Many Japanese people recognize his excellent work, like the headmasters of Sho Sho ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu, and the Japanese ambassador in the Netherlands, who were present at the opening of his beautiful new dojo. The Queen of the Netherlands recently decorated Mark as Knight in the Order of Oranje Nassau for his good works in contribution to the Japanese culture in the Netherlands and Europe, and the contribution to the friendship between the Netherlands and Japan. Our Queen is a good friend of the Japanese Emperor and his wife, and would never do anything to harm the Japanese culture, or would give such an important decoration to somebody who does this.

About the Shin Tai Ryu (do not confuse this with the Shintai Ryu, and there does not exist a traditional Japanese school with this name): it is a tradition from teacher to student. The curriculum of the Shin Tai Ryu, which Mark has perfected, has his roots in the previous teachings. Maybe it does not fulfill your definition of a tradition, the Japanese grandmasters of the Sho Sho Ryu and Muhen Yogan Ryu do not have a problem with this.

Mark is a really friendly, generous, down-to-earth man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to the study and teachings of Japanese martial arts and Chinese philosophy. His skills and contribution to the Japanese culture in Europe are recognized by many important people in Japan, the Netherlands and different European countries. So in order to find out the value of your opinions I ask you: what are your credentials? What are your contributions to the Japanese martial arts and culture?

To clarify my previous post: Mr. Sterke's connection to Sho sho ryu is NOT contested, he has NOT been labeled a fraud, there were just some questions about lineage (to the Dutch jujutsu, and the 'traditional character' of it) that neither your buddy nor you yourself are willing to answer, and questions about his knowledge in some of the ryu he offers instruction in. The fact that you are trying to smooth that one over by saying that it is 'an introduction' or 'a seminar' is just semantics; something is taught, isn't it?

oh and LMFAO with the ultimate fail of an appeal to authority with the Queen and the Emperor reference :'-)

So where did we hurt you so much that it impeded your reading capabilities?

Last edited by Moenstah; 9/23/2012 9:42am at .
Reason: forgot to add last phrase

The Nihon Kobudo Kyokai originally consisted of Ryugi that couldn't get into the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai. Recently it's gotten big and nonsensical ryugi have gathered there.

I don't know how truthful any of that might be, but it steps firmly on your holier-than-thou assetion that Japanese are above putting 'filth' on the internet. Talk to us about decorum when you get Japan's *%$# out of your mouth.

The Nihon Kobudo Kyokai originally consisted of Ryugi that couldn't get into the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai. Recently it's gotten big and nonsensical ryugi have gathered there.

I don't know how truthful any of that might be, but it steps firmly on your holier-than-thou assetion that Japanese are above putting 'filth' on the internet. Talk to us about decorum when you get Japan's *%$# out of your mouth.

Indeed, anyone who thinks Nihonjin don't filth up the Net haven't read much of what is on 2chan.

Mark has never claimed to have trained in all the Japanese traditions mentioned in his website, or to offer the complete curriculum or a graduation in the traditional Japanese schools. Do not twist his words or misinterpret his intentions, as so often is done in this discussion. He offers merely an introduction to a few traditions in a workshop or seminar...

<Cut for brevity's sake>

So in order to find out the value of your opinions I ask you: what are your credentials? What are your contributions to the Japanese martial arts and culture?

Then re-read this thread you are replying to and make careful note of exactly what questions have been raised and are still active.

Then, instead of whining and laying out a number of Bullshido arguments that will only make us roll our eyes, do one of the following:
a.) Reply with, "Thank you for your interest in our art. I'm going to keep practicing regardless of your opinions or the facts you bring to light. I find value in this art and nothing people on the Internet can say will make me change my mind."
or,
b.) Lay out clear, concise answers to the questions raised supported by facts and documentation.

Really, it's that simple.

Or, you can continue on your path of self-destruction and provide us with hours of entertainment. Your choice.