i understand when someone has another faith or whatever so they don't care about buddhism. but i don't get people who just go through life not practicing anything! they suffer, they cause themselves problems, and it doesn't matter at all too them! you can tell them how great jhana feels or what ultimate reality is supposed too be and how amazing it is when you realize not self and so on, and they just shrug.

i'm not trying too convert people or anything like that, just talking about how people usually respond when i talk about the dhamma. just "blah. whatever, sounds cool. i'd rather watch a reality tv show and get drunk."

i say "once i felt my ego lift for about an hour and it was literally the greatest feeling i've ever had in my life!"

i say "once i entered jhana and it was like another world! i didn't see, hear, taste, smell, or feel anything around me, yet i was completely awake, and in total bliss!"

and before you think it, it's not me! i can get people interested in physical determinism, or space exploration, or solipsism, or any random thing. but for some reason, epic and truly amazing as it is, the dhamma just doesn't impress most people that i know.

especially strange when the modern medical community generally recommends meditation and mindfulness as things that are good for you! so it's not like trying too get someone interested in something that has no grounding in scientific reality. there are direct, quantifiable, positive results from practicing the dhamma (mostly meditation has been studied for this but nonetheless). but still

i guess i was one of these people long ago in my life? not sure though, no one ever told me about any of this, so i don't know how i would have responded.

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion … ...He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.John Stuart Mill

This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize... What is abstruse, subtle, deep, hard to see, going against the flow — those delighting in passion, cloaked in the mass of darkness, won't see.

johnny wrote:...but i don't get people who just go through life not practicing anything! they suffer, they cause themselves problems, and it doesn't matter at all too them! ...

Yeah, I don't get it either. I worked with a guy who had no spiritual side to him at all. He was a normal guy, he worked, had a girlfriend, etc, but he didn't wonder about life or reality or soul or spirit or anything. We had some discussions about it, and he just didn't get why I was interested in it.He didn't see a need for anything like that. I found it very weird!

Then, saturated with joy, you will put an end to suffering and stress.SN 9.11

I'd just chalk it up to these people having too much dust in their eyes... they can't see the benefit, and if we let it bug us it only proves that we are attached to the idea of pushing it on them. Meh...

Hickersonia wrote:I'd just chalk it up to these people having too much dust in their eyes...

Chalk dust, perhaps??

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Hickersonia wrote:I'd just chalk it up to these people having too much dust in their eyes... they can't see the benefit, and if we let it bug us it only proves that we are attached to the idea of pushing it on them. Meh...

Good post.

The way I see it, not understanding why most people do not practice anything, is almost comparable to not understanding why most that do practice Buddhism are not arahants. The spectrum of development is massive. When people are mature enough to develop they seek efficient ways to do it. If they lack that maturity, then they do not look.

A big part of starting to practice is learning what the dhamma is and accepting the idea that development on the path is possible. But even before that one must value and appreciate what will be achieved through the tremendous effort that they must undertake. You have to want to do it! I believe this is the gap that most people cannot cross and have no desire to cross. Even if you explain it to them, most of them will not see the value.

johnny wrote:i understand when someone has another faith or whatever so they don't care about buddhism. but i don't get people who just go through life not practicing anything! they suffer, they cause themselves problems, and it doesn't matter at all too them! you can tell them how great jhana feels or what ultimate reality is supposed too be and how amazing it is when you realize not self and so on, and they just shrug.

i'm not trying too convert people or anything like that, just talking about how people usually respond when i talk about the dhamma. just "blah. whatever, sounds cool. i'd rather watch a reality tv show and get drunk."

i say "once i felt my ego lift for about an hour and it was literally the greatest feeling i've ever had in my life!"

i say "once i entered jhana and it was like another world! i didn't see, hear, taste, smell, or feel anything around me, yet i was completely awake, and in total bliss!"

and before you think it, it's not me! i can get people interested in physical determinism, or space exploration, or solipsism, or any random thing. but for some reason, epic and truly amazing as it is, the dhamma just doesn't impress most people that i know.

especially strange when the modern medical community generally recommends meditation and mindfulness as things that are good for you! so it's not like trying too get someone interested in something that has no grounding in scientific reality. there are direct, quantifiable, positive results from practicing the dhamma (mostly meditation has been studied for this but nonetheless). but still

i guess i was one of these people long ago in my life? not sure though, no one ever told me about any of this, so i don't know how i would have responded.

Hi there, remember how the Buddha got enlightenened under the Bodhi-Tree and upon realizing that he would not be able to reach a lot of people he became hopeless and didn't want to teach the Dhamma?

It took a lot of encouragement from a Deva to make him change his mind....

So, he knew how humans are...

Don't let it upset you.

He knew that most people are run-of-the-mill wordlings and can't see the "truth".

In one suttha (can't remember which) he asked someone who was disppointed:

"What did you expext....?"

So....do not expect too much of them...but I am sure you can imagine now how then Buddha felt...and he was a Supreme Buddha, seeing a lot more than we....

Not everyone is interested in the Dhamma. Its just a fact of life.Perhaps they don't have the paramitas to encounter the Buddha Sasana in this life.The important thing is to live a Dhammic life as much as possible each and every day.That in itself will generate far more interest than any attempt to get others interested by talking to them about the Dhamma.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

i also find it very creepy that people can go there whole lives without wondering "why am i alive". its beyond eery. but its weird because it makes sense to wonder about life. i mind my own business and i never talk about buddhism in front of my friends unless they ask.

befriend wrote:i also find it very creepy that people can go there whole lives without wondering "why am i alive". its beyond eery. but its weird because it makes sense to wonder about life. i mind my own business and i never talk about buddhism in front of my friends unless they ask.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion … ...He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.John Stuart Mill

johnny wrote:...but i don't get people who just go through life not practicing anything! they suffer, they cause themselves problems, and it doesn't matter at all too them! ...

Yeah, I don't get it either. I worked with a guy who had no spiritual side to him at all. He was a normal guy, he worked, had a girlfriend, etc, but he didn't wonder about life or reality or soul or spirit or anything. We had some discussions about it, and he just didn't get why I was interested in it.He didn't see a need for anything like that. I found it very weird!

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

i'm not sure why, if you don't understand why i am perturbed (enough too create this silly thread), it perturbs you enough that i posted this that you should post such a reply.

if you can say i shouldn't be perturbed, perhaps you shouldn't be perturbed by my thread (enough too post a reply anyway)?

only arahants are perturbed by nothing. we worldlings just endlessly mirror each other.

Last edited by johnny on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize... What is abstruse, subtle, deep, hard to see, going against the flow — those delighting in passion, cloaked in the mass of darkness, won't see.

Ayacana Sutta (SN 6.1)

for sure. he wasn't even going too teach at all because of this until bramha asked him too!

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

Hickersonia wrote:I'd just chalk it up to these people having too much dust in their eyes... they can't see the benefit, and if we let it bug us it only proves that we are attached to the idea of pushing it on them. Meh...

indeed.i would expect the if i babbled on about the four noble truths, escaping samsara, why we must practice the eightfold path, etc. but i'm not even trying too make anyone practice or become a buddhist or anything though. i even try too relate it too the fun loving side that everyone has (talking about jhana, etc.), and the adventurous side (talking about different states of conscoiusness, the sermon of the seven suns AN 7.62 and how similar it is too modern scientific theory, and other crazy interesting suttas, etc.), just too make conversation at work, and it just doesn't fly!

i don't say "are you suffering, friend? perhaps look into buddhism!" i wouldn't even think about being like that. it's usually "what's up man? what are you reading right now? hemingway? sweet! i just read this really interesting sutta that seems too talk about outer space, it's a trip!" and i get:

too much dust is probably right.

and don't get me wrong, there are a few people who are interested, one guy i work with thinks it's cool stuff and has borrowed a couple books from me. and another asks questions and shares things about history or science that relate. but mostly, well you know:

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five

Hickersonia wrote:I'd just chalk it up to these people having too much dust in their eyes... they can't see the benefit, and if we let it bug us it only proves that we are attached to the idea of pushing it on them. Meh...

Good post.

The way I see it, not understanding why most people do not practice anything, is almost comparable to not understanding why most that do practice Buddhism are not arahants. The spectrum of development is massive. When people are mature enough to develop they seek efficient ways to do it. If they lack that maturity, then they do not look.

A big part of starting to practice is learning what the dhamma is and accepting the idea that development on the path is possible. But even before that one must value and appreciate what will be achieved through the tremendous effort that they must undertake. You have to want to do it! I believe this is the gap that most people cannot cross and have no desire to cross. Even if you explain it to them, most of them will not see the value.

i think "spectrum of development is massive" really sums it up! one can be so far from the dhamma that it doesn't even seem in any way like something that has any value whatsoever, or one could be any where from there too being an arahant!

The time would not pass. Somebody was playing with the clocks, and not only the electronic clocks but the wind-up kind too. The second hand on my watch would twitch once, and a year would pass, and then it would twitch again.There was nothing I could do about it. As an Earthling I had to believe whatever clocks said -and calendars.”― Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five