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I don't understand why Yasu wouldn't just KEEP it as a pretend murder mystery rather than actually killing the people.

I'll talk about R-Prime now. S/he doesn't need to actually kill people for things to work out, but in the end Yasu is responsible for the tragedy. Beatrice takes responsibility for it and is shown as regretful in EP8. Somebody needs to turn on the bomb, even if another person did it, Yasu should have been able to keep it from happening easily. Even if it the detonator somehow went off because of a lightning bolt, an earthquake, a cat, or whatever, Yasu is still responsible because a sane person would have had the damn thing disarmed upon learning of it and inheriting the headship, so s/he must have been intending to blow up the island and kill people to begin with.

Whether Yasu would actually do all that gory stuff like in Our Confessions is questionable. But it is shown s/he is at least pretty crazy, proficient with guns and intends to kill people, so s/he might as well do it. Many people feel the motives are flimsy, I somewhat agree. RK07 says it's because we don't know love, I'll just believe him. XD

Whether other people committed murders or not doesn't absolve Yasu of guilt. Many things are pointing towards an additional culprit though, such as the existence of the two survivors and Ange's reaction to seeing the truth. I can't quite tell the truth though...

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So maybe we ascribe too much to the entity of "Yasu" sometimes.

Maybe we can think of any actions her body takes as being subdivided into Shannon, Kanon or Beato only and she never takes an action as "Yasu"?

By the way, about the accomplice (or what I used to call the Key of the Twilight)

"Come with me in the twilight for a summer night for a while..."

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Well the main thing is, is there a form of DID where the different identities are *not* compartmentalized? It's usually been said that DID ends up with different personalities (and not personas) who cannot access the memories of other personalities.

Multiplicity communities have been developing the idea of "Median." While not yet recognized in official psychological circles, the idea is basically that there are a bunch of people who don't actually have multiple personalities, but have the sensation that they do without being an outright liar or pretender. The delusion of multiplicity, really. Some Medians might even be aware of their condition but can't "turn it off."

aCk! This is not the first time I typed Twilight instead of Epitaph too... 8)

"I believe in fantasies invisible to me ... To the door of mystery and dignity... " Hmmm... :3

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Multiplicity communities have been developing the idea of "Median." While not yet recognized in official psychological circles, the idea is basically that there are a bunch of people who don't actually have multiple personalities, but have the sensation that they do without being an outright liar or pretender. The delusion of multiplicity, really. Some Medians might even be aware of their condition but can't "turn it off."

So it seems something like this is possible, in real life at least.

Anyways, I'm not entirely sure of this idea of a particular diagnosis in Ryukishi's head as I'm sure something would've been mentioned by now. In addition, a lot of what I read spoke of psychological trauma and not necessarily of physical trauma.

However, there was one particular thing that would make it lean towards DID. If Beatrice and Shannon's handwriting differs, perhaps that's a clue Ryukishi put in there some how. I remember the discussion about Beatrice's handwriting in Maria's diary and the bottled letters. There was only one mention, IIRC, regarding Shannon taking dictation for Kinzo's will in... EP2, I think? (But we never get to see it, of course, as it was a fantasy scene.)

It was nice to have a... second (third?) confirmation on the howdunnits and whodunnit.
As for the whydunnit, this uhhh... TIPs(?) once again reaffirmed Beatice's main motivation was to place a mystery before Battler, though that was Piece-Beato's motivation, which in turn was a Meta-Motive as well. So, we still get nothing for Rokkenjima Prime, but well, I guess by now it should be clear that trying to find out what happened there is a fool's errand.

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"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom

I think Yasu's condition is too fictional to be pint point as any mental disorder. Heck, I'm not even sure how is Beatrice relationship to Shanon and Kanon's personas. Do Yasu's persona have same memories? Do they consider themselves as seperate people or just a complicated role-playing game to hide the frustration of a teenager with gender issues?

Personally I'm not interested one bit in Yasu anymore. Fictional or not, I think it's implied quite clear that she intend to at least blow up the island if nobody reaches the solution. Yes, the Higurashi culprit is crazy and all, but we are not supposed to sympathize to that person.

Frankly I think that's more probable than DID, there's been many critics about this theorized disorder, and I wonder if it really exist at all, or if, more likely, the persons so diagnosed believe they are different persons and then simply "remove" the memories as in many other common disorders.

But at any rate, there's no need to look for some fancy disorder in Yasu's case. If we take the scene in the chapel at face value then that's clearly schizophrenia.

-delusions
-hallucinations
-social disfunction
-persistent for more than six months

Schizophrenia is always your best bet when someone shows loss of contact with reality. And the serious belief to be different persons inside one body is basically that, especially if someone then spends her days talking to her other selfs. If you think schizophrenia is too much for Yasu's case then there's this:

Which I guess that fits because Ryuukishi isn't really an expert on the field to make a disorder match with anything known. But the point here is that Yasu's disorder is generally reconductible to a form a psychosis.

Now the problem is: In Rokkenjima Prime did she really try to stage the murders? Or they were all merely tales and Rokkenjima was destroyed due to an incident unrelated to her?

That's something only Ryukishi knows.

I think it's the second one.

Spoiler for Episode 8:

On October 6th, the third day, Battler said to Beato that she has not committed any sin in the real world, she replies that it's not true and Battler stay silent.
My impression is that Battler is sure that he/she didn't do anything (well, pretty obvious that Battler didn't escape the tragedy by luck, so he knew what happened those days) but he noticed that Beato is deeply bound to her "meta-self" (= she thinks that she really did everything and she can't escape from the that world of hers).

If he knew that Yasu really committed the murders, he'd never say anything like that.

Battler says she hasn't committed any sins in "our world" (Btw Usagi, doesn't this confirm that there is indeed a Rokkenjima Prime? At least the concept exists) with the probable meaning: "you didn't kill anyone"

Beatrice answers that it's not true, and I believe she thinks about a different sin than killing.
And this could be anything from lying to being the indirect cause of the tragedy.

Battler says she hasn't committed any sins in "our world" (Btw Usagi, doesn't this confirm that there is indeed a Rokkenjima Prime? At least the concept exists) with the probable meaning: "you didn't kill anyone"

Beatrice answers that it's not true, and I believe she thinks about a different sin than killing.
And this could be anything from lying to being the indirect cause of the tragedy.

IIRC, there's a discussion between Beato and Ange near the beginning of the episode where she implies that she considers her one real sin to be hurting Ange with her stories. Could that be what she's talking about here?

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"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."

-delusions
-hallucinations
-social disfunction
-persistent for more than six months

Schizophrenia is always your best bet when someone shows loss of contact with reality. And the serious belief to be different persons inside one body is basically that, especially if someone then spends her days talking to her other selfs. If you think schizophrenia is too much for Yasu's case then there's this:

Which I guess that fits because Ryuukishi isn't really an expert on the field to make a disorder match with anything known. But the point here is that Yasu's disorder is generally reconductible to a form a psychosis.

Are we actually going to ascribe an incredibly complex plan that requires enormous amounts of careful execution to a schizophrenic? Seriously? People who hallucinate, hear voices, and have difficulty discerning fantasy from reality tend not to make very good timetable-bound criminals.

It's rather like being a blind bank robber. I suppose it's possible, but it certainly would be a whole lot easier for a person who can see. And when a bank is robbed in a swift and efficient manner, we would generally assume the person doing it could see.

I suppose it's possible real-Yasu was schizophrenic and Beatrice wasn't, but that just makes it increasingly unlikely she'd be the "real" criminal.

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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But that would sound quite dickish from Battler.

One thing is if he's implying: "you only killed people in fantasy, never in the real world". That's quite a valid argument.

Another thing is if he's saying that she only killed people in equally real (or unreal) worlds.

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Originally Posted by LyricalAura

IIRC, there's a discussion between Beato and Ange near the beginning of the episode where she implies that she considers her one real sin to be hurting Ange with her stories. Could that be what she's talking about here?

What these guys are talking about. Why are we expected to forgive Beatrice if there's no R-Prime in which she was innocent? Her point - that she's committed countless crimes in other worlds - is completely valid if all worlds are equally viable.

It's the difference between Battler realizing that the only thing he cared about (who "really" did it) didn't involve Beatrice at all and forgiving her, and realizing that the only thing he cared about doesn't even exist, which still makes Beatrice a murderer and tormenter of his (fictional, but essentially equally valid) family.

Erensel, didn't you read all the spoilers from the Our Confessions booklet these last few pages? Or are you trying to avoid them still?

If you are, then ... um...

Spoiler for Do we need Umineko Confessions Solutions spoilers?:

From your list there, I would say in EP2, the clue as to who killed Kumasawa and Nanjo lie in the fact that they are killed out of order with George, Gouda and Shannon's group. In other words, Kumasawa and Nanjo were killed earlier, but given later twilights on purpose. So basically George, Gouda and Shannon, especially Shannon, was the last to die.

In concerning my answers, yes I have been avoiding them, but if that's the case then I'll revise my theory (I had a feeling they were killed earlier).

In concerning my answers, yes I have been avoiding them, but if that's the case then I'll revise my theory (I had a feeling they were killed earlier).

If only I could erase my memory and start Umineko over again, it would be fun to figure out what was going on. Since that isn't possible yet, it's at least just as fun watching other people try to solve it. 8)

Spoiler for Hints for Erensel:

Regarding EP2, once you figured out how the last person died (as obviously the last person to 'die' must be a suicide, as per And Then There Were None) and you figured out how he/she died, you should consider that whatever motives and materials this person possessed to make other people 'die' also exist in the other episodes. 8)

Also, it looks like we may getting a new series from Ryukishi next... errrr... I mean this year, August. (As per Klashkari's post in the Translation thread.) With his foray into making EP8 slightly more interactive, I would bet he's going to try to expand in this area with his next series. Somehow...