K.Dhamma wrote: Lately I have removed red meat from my meals almost exclusively. However, I find myself becoming hypoglycemic and very "drained" if I go 2-3 days without meat. So, I slowed down and I now eat very modest with meat.

Then you need to examine your body's functioning and eat what is healthy for you. I am not sure if ruining your health just to follow some beliefs is the right thing to do. Vegetarianism is NOT the middle way.

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

From historical records the Buddha was mostly vegetarian, but I guess that's not the middle way, perhaps you can tell us just what the middle way is??

Also the Buddhas teaching to reduce or eliminate suffering is not supposed to be applied selfishly just to ourselves but to all sentient beings, even I dare say those animals on your plate. Doctors have determined that a healthy vegetarian or even vegan diet (with B12) provides all the nutrients and proteins needed to survive and be healthier not just as healthy as meat eaters, so when some one says they feel healthier eating meat, you have to wonder if some of that effect might be psychological, or if they are just eating an unbalanced vegetarian diet.

18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John

K.Dhamma wrote: Lately I have removed red meat from my meals almost exclusively. However, I find myself becoming hypoglycemic and very "drained" if I go 2-3 days without meat. So, I slowed down and I now eat very modest with meat.

Then you need to examine your body's functioning and eat what is healthy for you. I am not sure if ruining your health just to follow some beliefs is the right thing to do. Vegetarianism is NOT the middle way.

i think there is nothing of an "ism" about being a vegetarian . Its a natural progression on the path of Dhamma, without being attached to the kind of eating . As to being healthy , modern science has very well documented the benefits of being a vegetarian , out weighs meat eating ( this thread cites many such examples , should you browse the pages ) . One should however have no qualms about those who eat meat , similarly , one should have no qualms about those who eat green grass

Take care.

sanjay

The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

Maybe you already have talked about these books in this long thread, maybe not. I have found them recently and I'd like to recommend them for those who are interested in Buddhism and vegetarianism and still haven't heard about them.

K.Dhamma wrote:(...) Lately I have removed red meat from my meals almost exclusively. However, I find myself becoming hypoglycemic and very "drained" if I go 2-3 days without meat. So, I slowed down and I now eat very modest with meat. (...)

My friend, what you need to eat to be healthy are carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins an minerals.

As you can see you don't need to eat 'meat' to be OK. What do you think is there in meat that you can't find in vegetables? (apart from b12 vitamin).

Check if you are having a balanced diet with all nutrients the human body (your specific body) needs. And of course meat is not a nutrient.

nekete wrote:As you can see you don't need to eat 'meat' to be OK. What do you think is there in meat that you can't find in vegetables? (apart from b12 vitamin).

Fats and cholesterol which are crucial for cells and brain function. Study the composition of fats in mother's milk... It will show you what the nature intended us to consume.

Also, remember, the closer the food is to make up of your body, the more natural it is.

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Yes it is possible, and so is it possible to obtain energy from water (steam-engine). But how efficient is it?

Except for coconut oil, which vegetarian product has saturated fat? What about B12?

What if someone needs to be on high protein, low-carb diet?

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

nekete wrote:As you can see you don't need to eat 'meat' to be OK. What do you think is there in meat that you can't find in vegetables? (apart from b12 vitamin).

Fats and cholesterol which are crucial for cells and brain function. Study the composition of fats in mother's milk... It will show you what the nature intended us to consume.

Also, remember, the closer the food is to make up of your body, the more natural it is.

What you've done is post a strong arguement for cannabilism, which goes to show just how nutty the meat eaters can get in their arguements!!!!

18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community that has so generously given me so much, sincerely former monk John

lyndon taylor wrote:What you've done is post a strong arguement for cannabilism, which goes to show just how nutty the meat eaters can get in their arguements!!!!

I didn't create this dukkha world. I don't approve it.

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Alex123 wrote:Also, remember, the closer the food is to make up of your body, the more natural it is.

That would make human blood a superfood. But from what I've read, blood, when eaten and digested, is actually not very nutritious - very poor in comparison to having it flow through your veins.There are important changes in the digestive system that happen to the things we eat, which is why it is not possible to predict that something is nutritious simply because it resembles the make-up of our body.

Alex123 wrote:Yes it is possible, and so is it possible to obtain energy from water (steam-engine). But how efficient is it?

Depends on what one wishes to do with one's energy.

Except for coconut oil, which vegetarian product has saturated fat? What about B12?

From what I've read, B12 is normally stored in the body and doesn't get used up easily. See Wiki article on it.

What if someone needs to be on high protein, low-carb diet?

Obviously, in the field of nutrition, there are many differing opinions on what is good and what isn't. I think the real issue here is whom to trust, whom to rely on, and for what purpose.

There is the ideal of establishing bodily health per se - regardless of one's goals in life, regardless of what one wants to do in life.I think this ideal is misleading.

One's ideas of "health" will necessarily have to do with what one sees as the meaning or purpose of life.

Alex123 wrote:Study the composition of fats in mother's milk... It will show you what the nature intended us to consume.

The composition of mother's milk shows you what nature intends for infant human beings to consume who will triple in weight within a year.

Metta.

And what is fat composition of an adult brain? What do adult's cell need?

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

binocular wrote:From what I've read, B12 is normally stored in the body and doesn't get used up easily. See Wiki article on it.

B12 is water soluble., and ultimately derived from bacteria. One still has to get its stores from somewhere, hopefully not one's own tissue (which is meat).

Vitamin B12, vitamin B12 or vitamin B-12, also called cobalamin, is a water-soluble vitamin with a key role in the normal functioning of the brain and nervous system, and for the formation of blood. It is one of the eight B vitamins. It is normally involved in the metabolism of every cell of the human body, especially affecting DNA synthesis and regulation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12...Vitamin B12 is found in most animal derived foods,...Besides certain fermented foods,[71][72] there are currently only a few non-animal food sources of biologically active B12 suggested,[citation needed] and none of these have been subjected to human trials.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Sources

binocular wrote:

Alex123 wrote:Also, remember, the closer the food is to make up of your body, the more natural it is.

That would make human blood a superfood. But from what I've read, blood, when eaten and digested, is actually not very nutritious - very poor in comparison to having it flow through your veins.

By similar food such as, for example, pork meat, and to lesser extent from what other animals are made.

binocular wrote:There are important changes in the digestive system that happen to the things we eat, which is why it is not possible to predict that something is nutritious simply because it resembles the make-up of our body.

Correct. What is also true is that just because cows and some other herbivores can synthesise certain nutrients just from plants, it doesn't mean that humans can do the same. Our digestive system is not only the length of the stomach or kinds of teeth we have.

We can't synthesis essential aminoacids , or essential fatty acids, or some vitamins from grass like cows can.

binocular wrote:

Alex123 wrote:Yes it is possible, and so is it possible to obtain energy from water (steam-engine). But how efficient is it?

Depends on what one wishes to do with one's energy.

Like having well functioning brain that gets good fuel for it.

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Alex123 wrote:And what is fat composition of an adult brain? What do adult's cell need?

Well, the way I see it, you are placing more faith in Western scientists than you do in Buddhist teachings, and you're reaping the results of this faith ...

I go with science when it comes to objective world, and Buddha when it comes to teaching about dukkha and cessation of it.

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Alex123 wrote:Study the composition of fats in mother's milk... It will show you what the nature intended us to consume.

The composition of mother's milk shows you what nature intends for infant human beings to consume who will triple in weight within a year.

Metta.

And what is fat composition of an adult brain? What do adult's cell need?

Yes, the brain is mostly made up of fat. The body can make fat from carbohydrates and carbohydrates provide glucose, the brain's fuel.

If you're talking about omega 3 EFAs, you can get these directly from algae supplements. Or your body can synthesize the omega 3 EFAs from ALA which is found abundantly in walnuts, flaxseeds, and chia seeds.

Right. But there is difference between providing fuel and material to rebuild the brain. Remember, every tissue in the body is regularly rebuilt.

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Glycolysis, pyruvate oxidation, the citric acid cycle, and oxidative phosphorylation make up cellular respiration. This is the process that mitochondria, the "power plants" of cells, use to generate energy. Glycolysis turns glucose (a simple sugar that your body can get from metabolizing carbohydrates) into pyruvate which is oxidized into Acetyl CoA which then goes to the citric acid cycle. That Acetyl CoA can also be used to make fatty acids.

"Lipogenesis is the process by which acetyl-CoA is converted to fatty acids. The former is an intermediate stage in metabolism of simple sugars, such as glucose, a source of energy of living organisms. Through lipogenesis and subsequent Triglyceride synthesis, the energy can be efficiently stored in the form of fats. Lipogenesis encompasses the process of fatty acid synthesis."-wikipedia entry for 'lipogenesis'

The only fatty acids that humans need to actually ingest because our bodies can't synthesize them are the two kinds of essential fatty acids (EFAs): omega-6 (linoleic acid) and omega-3 (alpha-linolenic acid (ALA)). Both of these can be found abundantly in plant foods.