yup. wp8 is still missing basic things that should've been rectified by now. if MS is serious about it that is. i'm not 100% sure they have a real plan with anything anymore except maybe the office/server stuff. consumer stuff they are just wandering in the desert it seems.

Out of curiosity, what OS level features is WP8 missing that are holding it back?

I'm aware of some apps that are, if not holding it back, then at least not helping by their absence, but I've yet to note anything that would require an OS update to fix.

my #1 is different volume settings for apps/phone. seems to be just one general volume like a tv or something. real bush league.

i'd also like to see notifications like ios/android. you can kinda swipe at the top to get volume/battery/signal strength but it doesn't work 100%. i'd also like to see notifications added to it so you don't have to turn off the screen and back on to see missed text and the text of it. i know you have the tiles but i'd like either a shade type deal or have the tiles show more info instead of just a handset and 1, or the text smiley and 1. like to see who texted/called. maybe that's in there.

vibration on keypress when typing would also be nice. ios is missing this as well afaik.

almost like the people in charge have never used a smartphone and are starting from scratch. really odd how some of these things get missed.

And what is TOAST notification? that little bar that shows up when texted? you can't redrag that down but i'll check.. just got a text....nope. the 1 shows up by the little txt guy but you can't drag down and see all the notifications.

So, not being able to close an app is problematic I think, but I will say that while I was constantly closing apps in Android due to performance reasons, it's not a feature I've missed in Windows Phone.

I'm not excusing it's absence, but I wonder if, in day to day use that has the level of impact that people think it does.

So, not being able to close an app is problematic I think, but I will say that while I was constantly closing apps in Android due to performance reasons, it's not a feature I've missed in Windows Phone.

I'm not excusing it's absence, but I wonder if, in day to day use that has the level of impact that people think it does.

You shouldn't generally close apps anyway. You should let your frequent apps remain open. I used to close apps a lot until I realised they really did launch faster if they were left alone.

In some respects Microsoft got it right, if you really want to "close" an app you can back out of it, although even then its state is still resident as a tombstone for quicker restoring. Really though people need to get out of the habit of fighting the system for control of app state and residency.

So, not being able to close an app is problematic I think, but I will say that while I was constantly closing apps in Android due to performance reasons, it's not a feature I've missed in Windows Phone.

I'm not excusing it's absence, but I wonder if, in day to day use that has the level of impact that people think it does.

You shouldn't generally close apps anyway. You should let your frequent apps remain open. I used to close apps a lot until I realised they really did launch faster if they were left alone.

In some respects Microsoft got it right, if you really want to "close" an app you can back out of it, although even then its state is still resident as a tombstone for quicker restoring. Really though people need to get out of the habit of fighting the system for control of app state and residency.

i constantly close them on my nexus 7. lots of apps don't come back right i've found; mainly games. wp8 doesn't let you do that. you just have to reboot the phone.

So, not being able to close an app is problematic I think, but I will say that while I was constantly closing apps in Android due to performance reasons, it's not a feature I've missed in Windows Phone.

I'm not excusing it's absence, but I wonder if, in day to day use that has the level of impact that people think it does.

You shouldn't generally close apps anyway. You should let your frequent apps remain open. I used to close apps a lot until I realised they really did launch faster if they were left alone.

In some respects Microsoft got it right, if you really want to "close" an app you can back out of it, although even then its state is still resident as a tombstone for quicker restoring. Really though people need to get out of the habit of fighting the system for control of app state and residency.

I'm on iOS, one of the most restrictive app environments in the current system (well, maybe not more than WP), and I have to close apps regularly when the app state is bad. Developers screw up. They code in timeouts that freeze the program, or have race conditions or blocking code, or whatever, so you kill the app and relaunch it.

You seriously mean to say programmers are perfect and apps don't lock up in Windows Phone land?

If an app locks up, it won't respond properly when you switch back to it and the OS will restart it.

It's possible that an app will have a *non*-crash bug where it attempts to resume-from-tombstone, doesn't set itself up properly visually, and re-tombstones with the same bad data when you switch away. But that would take an awful lot of bad luck.

I wouldn't mind having a way to explicitly close apps. The only time I've wished for it is with Pandora on WP8. It's got a bug where it auto-resumes any time my Bluetooth connects or disconnects, regardless of whether the music was playing before hand. Of course, I'd rather they just fix that bug.

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Why then does MS publish a monitoring tool if that monitoring tool is unnecessary?

Because, while the current method fakes it pretty well and auto-restarts, you as an app developer don't want your app restarting all the time.

I don't think anyone claimed that Windows Phone apps couldn't have bugs or crash, it's just less of an issue than it is on Android. Again, Android's free-for-all is both good and bad and this is one of the bad.

Anyway, that prototype Lumia 920 that got leaked kind of confirmed app closing from the multitask menu is happening.

You seriously mean to say programmers are perfect and apps don't lock up in Windows Phone land?

I think he was saying that it should be unnecessary. That link you posted was from MSDN by the way, it's for developers. I'm surprised you didn't post the link to the profiling tool as well and use it's existence to prove that WPx is slow.

I didn't actually notice WP7 couldn't close apps until I read this thread. I was so surprised I went into WP7's task switcher and long-pressed an app expecting a "close this app" popup.

You seriously mean to say programmers are perfect and apps don't lock up in Windows Phone land?

I think he was saying that it should be unnecessary. That link you posted was from MSDN by the way, it's for developers. I'm surprised you didn't post the link to the profiling tool as well and use it's existence to prove that WPx is slow.

I didn't actually notice WP7 couldn't close apps until I read this thread. I was so surprised I went into WP7's task switcher and long-pressed an app expecting a "close this app" popup.

Well, if you click on the app or the tile (if memory serves) it launches a new instance of it.

Having come from iOS, I have to agree. I'll be going back if the next iPhone wows me.

I just spend a lot of time getting annoyed by little niggles. Some of it could be that I am used to the Apple way of handling things, especially music.

Little stuff I can think of:-Notifications stick around too long.-The volume overlay doesn't stick around long enough when you are using it to track through music.-Power management seems to be less effective: I get good standby, but sometimes my battery life just tanks.-Lack of ability to kill an app which I know is going to drain my battery (WhatsApp and the Blizzard Authenticator both are guilty of this)-The return key on the keyboard does not act as enter when you hit it in many web forms for whatever reason.-The video player when dealing with internet content-The music app SUCKS.

I could probably come up with more if I gave it time. There are lots of things it really gets right, and there are a few things I will really miss, but the frustrations just keep adding up. And the whole dearth of apps thing.

There are sites (especially banking sites) that break the return == submit functionality for desktop IE (and possibly others). I don't think it's a WP-specific thing. I think some sites decide they don't want browsers remembering passwords and form data, so they implement a not-really-a-textbox control in javascript and don't always get it quite right.

You seriously mean to say programmers are perfect and apps don't lock up in Windows Phone land?

If an app locks up, it won't respond properly when you switch back to it and the OS will restart it.

It's possible that an app will have a *non*-crash bug where it attempts to resume-from-tombstone, doesn't set itself up properly visually, and re-tombstones with the same bad data when you switch away. But that would take an awful lot of bad luck.

I wouldn't mind having a way to explicitly close apps. The only time I've wished for it is with Pandora on WP8. It's got a bug where it auto-resumes any time my Bluetooth connects or disconnects, regardless of whether the music was playing before hand. Of course, I'd rather they just fix that bug.

Quote:

Why then does MS publish a monitoring tool if that monitoring tool is unnecessary?

Because, while the current method fakes it pretty well and auto-restarts, you as an app developer don't want your app restarting all the time.

An App Close function would be nice, but isn't 100% necessary.

This pretty much covers my thoughts on closing Apps. Yes, it's a nice feature, but it isn't really a required app on this platform. And as I said before, I considered it a mark against Android that I had to close apps so regularly. And even there I used the 3rd party Advanced Task Killer app. It was the first thing the Verizon guy loaded on my phone when I got my original droid. That's a bad sign.

In the early days of the Droid/Android on Verizon, there was extensive hand holding whether I specifically needed it, I decided it was worth letting them do it. It's not like he did it without my permission.

And I can't say as it was a bad choice. I needed to use it regularly with that piece of shit environment.

This pretty much covers my thoughts on closing Apps. Yes, it's a nice feature, but it isn't really a required app on this platform.

If an app by its nature or through shitty programming by the developer can chew through your battery in a few hours while the phone is sitting there locked it would be awfully nice to have a way to quit it.

WhatsApp, for example, is extremely useful, but it's a battery killer. It would be nice to be able to use it and then kill it when I am done.

If an app by its nature or through shitty programming by the developer can chew through your battery in a few hours while the phone is sitting there locked it would be awfully nice to have a way to quit it.

If an app by its nature or through shitty programming by the developer can chew through your battery in a few hours while the phone is sitting there locked it would be awfully nice to have a way to quit it.

Not if "switching away from the app" also actually closes it.

Well, yes and no. On Windows Phone, I believe switching away from an app, or indeed locking the phone, simply hibernates the app. So it doesn't chew battery in that sense.

You seriously mean to say programmers are perfect and apps don't lock up in Windows Phone land?

If an app locks up, it won't respond properly when you switch back to it and the OS will restart it.

It's possible that an app will have a *non*-crash bug where it attempts to resume-from-tombstone, doesn't set itself up properly visually, and re-tombstones with the same bad data when you switch away. But that would take an awful lot of bad luck.

I wouldn't mind having a way to explicitly close apps. The only time I've wished for it is with Pandora on WP8. It's got a bug where it auto-resumes any time my Bluetooth connects or disconnects, regardless of whether the music was playing before hand. Of course, I'd rather they just fix that bug.

Quote:

Why then does MS publish a monitoring tool if that monitoring tool is unnecessary?

Because, while the current method fakes it pretty well and auto-restarts, you as an app developer don't want your app restarting all the time.

An App Close function would be nice, but isn't 100% necessary.

This pretty much covers my thoughts on closing Apps. Yes, it's a nice feature, but it isn't really a required app on this platform. And as I said before, I considered it a mark against Android that I had to close apps so regularly. And even there I used the 3rd party Advanced Task Killer app. It was the first thing the Verizon guy loaded on my phone when I got my original droid. That's a bad sign.

I never said killing apps was desirable, only necessary. I rarely kill apps, but a friend of mine would restart her phone when an app locked up until I showed her how to kill it. Killing apps is an exceptional action and not the rule.

The app in question was My Little Pony, and evidently got stuck trying to access a network resource. Killing it reset whatever state it held and could then connect successfully.

It seems impossible to claim Windows Phone apps cannot get a bad state or a timeout or some other unhandled exception.

But again no one is claiming that Windows Phone apps are invincible. In my experience, if an app is locked up, the system kills it (the user sees this by being kicked back to the Start screen) and you just open it again. The OS is quite good at managing itself and stuck apps.

Having come from iOS, I have to agree. I'll be going back if the next iPhone wows me.

I just spend a lot of time getting annoyed by little niggles. Some of it could be that I am used to the Apple way of handling things, especially music.

Little stuff I can think of:-Notifications stick around too long.-The volume overlay doesn't stick around long enough when you are using it to track through music.-Power management seems to be less effective: I get good standby, but sometimes my battery life just tanks.-Lack of ability to kill an app which I know is going to drain my battery (WhatsApp and the Blizzard Authenticator both are guilty of this)-The return key on the keyboard does not act as enter when you hit it in many web forms for whatever reason.-The video player when dealing with internet content-The music app SUCKS.

I could probably come up with more if I gave it time. There are lots of things it really gets right, and there are a few things I will really miss, but the frustrations just keep adding up. And the whole dearth of apps thing.

Some things to make your current experience better while you decide about new phones:

-You can swipe toast notifications to the right to dismiss them. I use that a lot when playing games.-Battery life tanking is almost universally the result of a misbehaving app. If the phone is warm, an app is likely doing something it shouldn't, like keeping the radio active. Finding the misbehaving app and not using it, or being more aggressive with its management will help a ton.-You can technically kill an app. You have to have it open, but instead of pressing the Home/Windows button, press the Back button. That will back out of the app until it closes the app. You can check this by looking at your apps like with the long-press back button. The app you want to close should be gone.-Which also means you can ghetto-close apps that aren't behaving, which also works for crashed apps. Sometimes apps take a couple "open-back button" loops to reset, but it works very will without having to reboot the phone.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "video player". Is there something specific it doesn't do?

-You can technically kill an app. You have to have it open, but instead of pressing the Home/Windows button, press the Back button. That will back out of the app until it closes the app. You can check this by looking at your apps like with the long-press back button. The app you want to close should be gone.-Which also means you can ghetto-close apps that aren't behaving, which also works for crashed apps. Sometimes apps take a couple "open-back button" loops to reset, but it works very will without having to reboot the phone.

But again no one is claiming that Windows Phone apps are invincible. In my experience, if an app is locked up, the system kills it (the user sees this by being kicked back to the Start screen) and you just open it again. The OS is quite good at managing itself and stuck apps.

So why is it Happysin and YoHo describe a method in which an app is killed manually?

It seems impossible to claim Windows Phone apps cannot get a bad state or a timeout or some other unhandled exception.

That's never been the claim. The claim is that you don't 100% need a close button. Switching away from the app *is* closing it.

The only reason you would need a close button would be an app that crashes on de-hibernate and does it in an extra special way so as to reproduce the crash the next time it de-hibernates. In that unlikely case, restarting your phone will probably fix it.

2: SO YOU'RE SAYING WP8 HAS MAGIC NEVER FAILING APPS? A: No, we're suggesting that a Task killer is only one way to handle badly behaving apps and is rather inelegant. WP8 does a better job than others And anyway, backing out of apps instead of hitting the home button kills the app anyway so you don't need a Task killer to kill apps.3: ZOMG, I THOUGHT WP8 DIDN'T NEED A TASK KILLER! A: sigh...

If MS is putting in a Task killer, I'd guess it's so that dumb iOS/Android people who can't handle different control paradigms stop getting their panties in a bunch.

It seems impossible to claim Windows Phone apps cannot get a bad state or a timeout or some other unhandled exception.

That's never been the claim. The claim is that you don't 100% need a close button. Switching away from the app *is* closing it.

The only reason you would need a close button would be an app that crashes on de-hibernate and does it in an extra special way so as to reproduce the crash the next time it de-hibernates. In that unlikely case, restarting your phone will probably fix it.

So really the only reason it needs a task killer is to kill the app when it crashes on de-hibernate, which seems reasonable, much more so than restarting the phone.

I've had iOS apps 'open' to blank white screens, and used the task killer option to restart the apps rather than restart my iPhone.

I'm not sure why you're advocating against a task killer when you can clearly lay out a situation where a task killer is useful.