In the extras of ďMr. Magoriumís Wonder Emporium,Ē there is a behind the scenes video of people clowning around on the set. At the end of it, co-star Jason Bateman sits in a chair while someone off-screen pelts him with a Nerf gun. Bateman refers to the guy by name then says, ďHe can write, direct, and shoot a Nerf gun.Ē

I turned to My Fair Lady and said, ďYeah, but he shoots the Nerf gun like he writes and directs. Poorly.Ē

ďMr. Magoiumís Wonder EmporiumĒ is an absolute disaster, a cornucopia of elaborate special effects meant to convey wonder yet fail utterly to do anything other than distract (briefly) from the limp script and razor thin characters. Natalie Portman (who Iím convinced will still look like sheís 10 even when sheís pushing 60) plays Molly Mahony, the store manager for Mr. Magorium. The big M (Dustin Hoffman) is a 200+ year old toy maker with wild hair, an odd not-quite-a-lisp, and a child-like view of the world. He makes magical toys and wonders to amuse children and has a giant silent guy living in his basement who builds the books of Magoriumís life. Oh, and no one in NEW YORK CITY thinks it the slightest bit odd that all this goes on in a small store sandwiched between two skyscrapers.

If that sounds odd, then let me state one thing right off: Thatís all the odd there is in the film. I watched as this beast lumbers along once the emporium grows surly following Mr. Magoriumís announcement heís leaving. His departure requires him to bring in an accountant (Bateman) to get the financials in order so he can pass the building on to Mahony, despite her heart being set on a life as a concert pianist. Thereís also a kid named Eric with a hat fetish and an annoying narrative voice.

Which brings up a point that made me want to set fire to the film. Itís called ďSHOW, DONíT TELL!Ē Basic screenwriting 101 states this message very clearly at the top of the chapter called ďHow to write a screenplay,Ē and when an amateur film maker feels the need to have a voice read off text thatís clearly visible on screen, in addition to spelling out details that are RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR EYES, it hacks me off. Every. Single. Time.

You want an example of how to use narration to amazing effect? Watch ďThe Shawshank Redemption.Ē

You want an example of how to do childlike wonder and ďpointless but it really does have a deeper meaningĒ philosophy? Try ďWilly Wonka and the Chocolate FactoryĒ (the Tim Burton version, not the awful 70ís version).

My Fair Lady commented after it was over how the film was ultimately pointless and I agreed. This is a mountain of suck thatís a waste of talent and, more importantly, your time.

I find the contrast between the gayness of you calling your wife My Fair Lady and the non-gayness of being married to a woman fascinating.

Oh, and yeah the movie was awful. Dustin Hoffman was god awful. Natalie Portman apparently has no rhythm, as evidence by the last scene where she is supposed to look like an orchestra conductor but instead looks really awkward, like a woman throwing a baseball, but with both arms.

Sometimes I fucking hate this forum. I'm not gay, but seriously, this shit could be pretty offensive to some people. I remember a while back there was a discussion on here about why gay gamers need their own site. There's your fucking answer.

Sometimes I fucking hate this forum. I'm not gay, but seriously, this shit could be pretty offensive to some people. I remember a while back there was a discussion on here about why gay gamers need their own site. There's your fucking answer.

Wow dude. The Political Correctness police really did a number on you huh?

And yes, there's gayness and non-gayness. Gayness isn't binary, off/on, either gay or not. It's on a sliding scale.

For instance, let's say -10 is John Wayne while +10 would be this guy:

Holding an Oscar party would probably be a +5, while installing an alternator would be around a -4. Having actual gay sex would probably be a +7, liking Elton John would be a +2. If you're like me and you like the Bravo TV reality shows, then that's probably a +3. Eating wings while watching football would be a -3, unless they're extra spicy wings in which case it's a -4.

As I said, I found the contrast of nicknaming your wife after a broadway musical to be awesome. Nicknaming your wife after a musical is probably a +4 on the gayness scale, except for the fact that you've married a woman, which is probably a -4, thus cancelling the gayness.

Sometimes I fucking hate this forum. I'm not gay, but seriously, this shit could be pretty offensive to some people. I remember a while back there was a discussion on here about why gay gamers need their own site. There's your fucking answer.

Wow dude. The Political Correctness police really did a number on you huh?

And yes, there's gayness and non-gayness. Gayness isn't binary, off/on, either gay or not. It's on a sliding scale.

For instance, let's say -10 is John Wayne while +10 would be this guy:

Holding an Oscar party would probably be a +5, while installing an alternator would be around a -4. Having actual gay sex would probably be a +7, liking Elton John would be a +2. If you're like me and you like the Bravo TV reality shows, then that's probably a +3. Eating wings while watching football would be a -3, unless they're extra spicy wings in which case it's a -4.

As I said, I found the contrast of nicknaming your wife after a broadway musical to be awesome. Nicknaming your wife after a musical is probably a +4 on the gayness scale, except for the fact that you've married a woman, which is probably a -4, thus cancelling the gayness.

I think his point is that using the word "Gay", as a put down is offensive. I actually agree with him or her because it's boring and tiring to see someone use the word as some explanation for nonconformity. Kind of like, "oh, you like musicals? You must be Gay!" I end up walking away saying how it is wasted breath talking to someone that ignorant. I recently hooked up with an old friend from high school, who is a cop, and we have been going to football and baseball games together. I'm heterosexual and married and so is he. Invariably we'll be talking about things and, as an example, I might say that my Wife wants me to help her find a present for one of her girl friends and he'll blurt out, "Dude that sounds Gay!" I'll ask him why and what he means by that and he won't have a valid explanation for saying that. He thinks it is funny. As a test, I told him that his Purple GT Mustang was Gay, he immediately became defensive and the conversation soon became ugly. A buddy of mine is a psychologist and he told me how men that are in authority positions, such as soldiers and police officers, are compelled to use the word Gay as a put down to bolster their machoness. It is hard to understand this but I guess boys and men use the words fag and faggot to explain some kind of weakness for anything feminine or something they don't understand. Which, IMHO, is ignorant.

Your concern that something someone else said may or may not offend the sensibilities of, "some people," is commendable.

Quote from: GatorFavre on June 26, 2008, 06:13:31 AM

I remember a while back there was a discussion on here about why gay gamers need their own site. There's your fucking answer.

Somehow I don't think cheeba's commentary is the fucking answer. And by the way, would that be hetero or homo fucking you're referring to? Or are you merely using the term for its emphatic qualities and aren't really referring to the actual act itself?

Try ďWilly Wonka and the Chocolate FactoryĒ (the Tim Burton version, not the awful 70ís version).

Seriously, dude. Between this and your disdain for Blade Runner I'm just a hair shy of disregarding anything you have to say about film.

That said, you are correct: Magorium sucked balls.

To us who did not grow up with Willy Wonka as a gauzy childhood memory, that movie was really abysmal. The Bride and I have rated 300+ movies on Netflix over the past four years. That one was one of fewer than 10 that sucked badly enough to get one star ("hated it").

Oh yeah: We have <10 one-star movies because when a film's reviews and word-of-mouth are as universally bad as they were for Magorium, it doesn't make our Netflix queue. As, in fact, Magorium did not.

I suppose if we replaced the word "gay" with either "nappy-headed" or "nigger" it would become offensive to some. Like, eating fried chicken or watermelon is a +5 on the nigger scale, but wearing socks and sandals is a -7. keep in mind, I'm using an example to show contrast... back off on the feedback button. Just because saying "that's gay" is common enough to fly under people's radar doesn't mean it's any better than using the word nigger- it's just a different segment of people who are being classified. One of my old buddies (explained in another thread) who has come out of the closet is about the least feminine person I can think of.

Ultimately gay doesn't equal effeminate; they just tend to ride the same bus. If you're going to label, then use the right one.

Quote from: corrected to use the right words

Wow dude. The Political Correctness police really did a number on you huh?

And yes, there's effeminate(fem) and non-fem. Effeminate isn't binary, off/on, either fem or not. It's on a sliding scale.

For instance, let's say -10 is John Wayne while +10 would be this guy:

Holding an Oscar party would probably be a +5, while installing an alternator would be around a -4. Having actual gay sex would probably be a +7, liking Elton John would be a +2. If you're like me and you like the Bravo TV reality shows, then that's probably a +3. Eating wings while watching football would be a -3, unless they're extra spicy wings in which case it's a -4.

As I said, I found the contrast of nicknaming your wife after a Broadway musical to be awesome. Nicknaming your wife after a musical is probably a +4 on the fem scale, except for the fact that you've married a woman, which is probably a -4, thus cancelling the effeminacy.

As a side-note: effemination isn't a word; the correct form is effeminacy.... (discovered above)... apparently effemination has Firefox spell-check suggesting insemination. See? Same bus, same stop, very different things.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Now that that derail is over:

I missed out on the movie.

It sounds like I've won, but I didn't; I read through this thread.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 02:57:27 PM by Purge »

Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson

To us who did not grow up with Willy Wonka as a gauzy childhood memory, that movie was really abysmal.

I might even begrudgingly give you that if it weren't for the fact that both of my kids love the freakin' movie as much as the Tim Burton version. In my opinion, if you were to combine the best aspects of each (Burton's adherence to the original source material and Gene Wilder's stunning performance) you would have the perfect version of the film.

Sometimes I fucking hate this forum. I'm not gay, but seriously, this shit could be pretty offensive to some people. I remember a while back there was a discussion on here about why gay gamers need their own site. There's your fucking answer.

Agreed (except for the hating the forum part ). It does get very old hearing things be referred to as "gay".

Sometimes I fucking hate this forum. I'm not gay, but seriously, this shit could be pretty offensive to some people. I remember a while back there was a discussion on here about why gay gamers need their own site. There's your fucking answer.

Agreed (except for the hating the forum part ). It does get very old hearing things be referred to as "gay".

Howso? You're misusing a derogatory label that is applied to a sect of people who have been ostracized as a way to express negativity.

Sounds like justification to me, cheeba. Hell, using something like "I got gypped." is commonplace, but it's calling back to people being ripped off by gypsies. It doesn't matter how current the slang is, it comes down to perpetuating a stereotype for no other reason than you're too lazy to use the right words. Would "I got ripped off." or "I got taken for a ride." be so much harder to say? Go ahead and say "I got jewed." and see how far that gets you.

Cultural sensitivity is different than political correctness; PC is seen as being hypersensitive. Fag, gay, dyke: these are all terms that, when used properly, are not derogatory and do not carry a negative connotation. I could call you a whiny little bitch on TV and there'd be no "Female Dog Coalition" that's going to hunt me down. Were I to do the same to you except replace it with gay or fag and it was broadcast, you can bet your ass I'd be getting phone calls from the Gay and Lesbian community. That means even if YOU don't care about the misuse, someone else does.

As to the N thing, I don't differentiate discrimination based on race, sexual preference, physical ability, mental capacity or religion. It's all bad, and that's the end of this conversation (for me). And hey, I slip up on it too; but call me on it and I'll back down; there is no good reason to do it. (satirical commentary aside)

« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 07:26:50 PM by Purge »

Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson

1. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex. 2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry. 3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room. 4. Given to social pleasures. 5. Dissolute; licentious.

Note that there's no "offensive, disparaging" next to gay?

Quote

As to the N thing, I don't differentiate discrimination based on race, sexual preference, physical ability, mental capacity or religion.

What intellectual laziness. Saying that something rates high on a gayness scale is not discrimination.

Saying something is gay is not at all like saying something is nigger.

I can ask a gay friend "Is this a gay nightclub?", but I don't think I'll ask a black friend "Is this a nigger nightclub?" That's pretty damn offensive and I hate even typing it, but I do so to prove a point. Did cheeba mean insult KD? I don't think so. Maybe it's a tired joke, but it's not that over the line. I have gay friends and I doubt they'd be offended if I said what cheeba said. They'd probably agree.

She has blonde hair. -not offensive!She's a dumb blonde. -discriminatory!

After hearing his accent for 2 seconds I knew he must be from the South. -not offensive!After hearing his Southern accent for 2 seconds I knew he must be an idiot. -discriminatory!

That's a gay bar. -not offensive!That's gay. -discriminatory!

Now as for "Calling your wife 'My Fair Lady' is gay," I can see it going either way. Just depends on how much negative connotation you hear in the accusation. If it's just an observation on how effeminate it is to half pet names derived from musicals... -not all that offensive! If whiteboyskim is "less of a man" or something for calling his wife 'My Fair Lady,' then.... -discriminatory!

No. Discrimination is an action. Calling something gay is not discriminatory. Acting on something because it's gay would be.

Quote

If it's just an observation on how effeminate it is to [have] pet names derived from musicals... -not all that offensive! If whiteboyskim is "less of a man" or something for calling his wife 'My Fair Lady,' then.... -discriminatory!

Hmm, I wouldn't even say effeminate. I don't think effeminate necessarily = gay. I think having a pet name for your wife from a musical is gay, but in a manly gay way, in which you might not know the dude is gay except when he flips radio stations and lands on the show tune channel and leaves it there a bit too long.

And yeah, when is Natalie Portman gonna be making good movies btw? She hasn't had anything really good since V for Vendetta, and that wasn't even all that good.

Perhaps it is in part due to a close friendship my wife and I have with a local gay couple, but I have become somewhat desensitized to use of the word "gay" to describe things. Probably because our friends use the term fairly regularly.

For example, my wife attended a Madonna concert with one of our gay friends because his partner was unable to attend. While leaving our friend commented to my wife, "That was a little too gay, even for me." This summer our friends will be attending a George Michael concert in Las Vegas at the Mandalay Bay, and they've started calling it The Mandalay Gay. As a "thank you" for taking care of our saltwater fish during a recent trip, we gave them a decorative stone for their back yard:

They laughed hysterically and continue to comment on its apparently endless entertainment.

Because the term is used in such a lighthearted and joking manner by our friends and never in a malicious tone, whenever I see it used in other avenues I rarely assume a derogatory tone. At least when the term is used by someone whose character I am familiar with. It's one thing for an obnoxious teen to use the term on Xbox live, as more often then not it is intended to be derogatory. But when our close, gay friends use it in such a joking tone, such as to mock one of Nala's rainbow scarves as "gay", I don't consider it to be discriminatory or offensive in any way.

Perhaps use of the term on an anonymous internet forum might be in poor taste, but I rarely have a problem with it, nor do my friends. At least when the tone is jovial or lighthearted. One night my wife came home with regular kitchen garbage bags instead of the type with "odor guard", and following my mini tirade in the kitchen one of our gay friends looked up at me and said, "Um, that was a little gay." <<shrugs>>

For me it is all about intent. Joking around about the "Mandalay Gay" with our gay friends is one thing, calling random online gamers "fags" or "homos" with an intended derogatory tone is something completely different.

I consider cheeba's comments to fall in the former category, not the latter.

Quote from: rickfc on June 26, 2008, 06:58:08 PM

I'm surprised that CeeGay hasn't chimed in on this...

See what I did there?

Sometimes we all just need to relax a little bit. We shouldn't always assume the worst.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 08:52:26 PM by PeteRock »

Logged

Beauty is only skin deep. Which is why I take very good care of my skin.

In French, calling something gay, is equal to calling it happy. It's not deregotary in the context. I think the difference in making it deregotary are those who perceive it to be. Somewhere along the way, someone's getting their wires crossed.

No. Discrimination is an action. Calling something gay is not discriminatory. Acting on something because it's gay would be.

Using a sexual preference as a substitute for the word "stupid" or "asshole" is discriminatory against gay people, like if someone in a game is teamkilling repeatedly and you say, "Stop being so gay!" I didn't interpret your initial post in this thread that way; to me it came across friendly enough to evoke the kind of thing that Pete is talking about. But I can see how someone could interpret what you said the other way, reading "You call your wife My Fair Lady? That's so gay!" as "You call your wife My Fair Lady? I am now mocking you for acting like gay people act!"

At least it started off well, then went to a discussion about whether using an affectionate nickname for my wife dubbed me as "Teh Ghay." Ahh, the Internet. At least the first several posts went through the discussion and had the temerity to end with "and you're right that the movie was awful."

As for the whole "Teh Ghay" comment, I snickered. I'm a writer. I'm creative. I also have no trouble admitting to that part of it at least and when I can stretch my imagination to include clever labels for people, I will do so. My brother-in-law, for example, is very much a cowboy and lives in West Texas. He is referred to as Lone Star. My brother is Brother G, my sister (an actress) is Diva, and so forth. That's how I write, and how I shall continue to write and that be the extent of the lesson.

Please understand though that if this thread ABOUT A TERRIBLE MOVIE winds up ported over to the R&P bullshit pit, I will be disappointed and have to kill cheeba as a result. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Please understand though that if this thread ABOUT A TERRIBLE MOVIE winds up ported over to the R&P bullshit pit, I will be disappointed and have to kill cheeba as a result. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

The movie was awful.....ly gay.

Does that help?

I actually had zero desire to see it in the first place. I don't always allow movie review sites to completely dictate what I watch (otherwise I would have never watched Poolhall Junkies, which is one of my favorite movies), but in this case from what I've read Mr. Magorium's Shop of Suck looked to have absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 12:59:52 AM by PeteRock »

Logged

Beauty is only skin deep. Which is why I take very good care of my skin.

Out of curiosity, how many people use ethnic descriptors when talking about friends or people? For example, I try not to use skin color or ethinicity when talking about coworkers because when referring to caucasian people I never say, "He's the White guy in the third cubicle." However, I hear people use skin color as an identifier and wondered if people are sensitive to that? It also goes the same way for sexual orientation, I have heard people refer to someone in the lab as the "Gay guy" or the "real dykee looking girl". Being asian/hispanic has always been an interesting experience because invariably, for some strange reason, I get asked what ethinicity I am. I rarely hear caucasian people asking if other caucasian people are German or Irish or whatever.

By the way, when is Dustin Hoffman going to be doing something worthy of his talents than this horrible movie?