I agree with you that Amoc is to expensive and feels difficult to fit in to our rotation. the tier needs some tweeking but all in all it is good. The lvl 90 tier unfortunately is a no brainer. Barrage and ps have to get revamped to compete with glaive toss. How ever i think hunter is cool to play. I personally enjoy it

You realize that World of Logs doesn't combine pet damage with Hunter damage correct, and therefore will not see any Kill Commands unless you look at the Hunters pet. At least that's the way it was in Cata.

Edit: Pet damage is now added into overall DPS, but Kill Command is still listed under the Pets damage. Ranked Hunters are casting KC on cool down.

About Dire Beast, I've been macro'ing it to Arcane Shot, if that helps:P. That's 1 down.

Tried that but it doesn't work great. Sometimes dire beast just doesn't go off for ages and I still have to do it manually and other times my character starts having what looks like an epileptic fit as it tries to do both abilities at the same time.

---------- Post added 2012-10-05 at 10:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by eschatological

Isn't DB on the GCD? If not...well then.

It is on the gcd but it can be macro'd to arcane shot or cobra shot.... but it doesn't work exactly perfectly. Try and you will see what I mean.

It is but works when macroed to arcane shot. Not the best setup, obviously, as it may happen to fire off when the last mob just died and then gets wasted for the next pull but it's not like you lose anything of value if you waste DB on an inopportune summon.

I did macro it cause when I didn't have it macroes, I always forgot to use it anyway.

Playing as BM currently, it is indeed a bit awkward and I'm spamming AS in particular like a mother dooker...though I'm currently trying out ToTH and I think with the hotfix it very well could be better than Dire Beast, I could be wrong, but I next to never have to use cobra shot to get focus back.

Stampede is a nice thing to have, especially in five mans/solo because you can get the bonuses of 5 pets at once for that 20 seconds which is amazing...like our own version of army of the dead with less creatures. I would like it if the pets would all go off of your current pet bar settings, it took me an angry tank or two to realize that you have to manually turn off growl a head of time on each pet.

As for the 90 talents from the tree...Glaive Toss seems to be the only one worth a shit atm, esp since it's usuable in single target situations and doesn't pull things you don't shoot at. IMHO, our t13 2 piece really made the hunter class flow well (esp SV, as that is what I played in t13) and I really think they should have made the double focus gained with SS and CS a permanent change and made adjustments elsewhere.

Overall, I like it...I liked SV better in Cata (t13 esp) and I have been doing decent dps.

AMOC is fine for me, I only use it on a boss and I never include it in my standard rotation on trash. It's pointless to use it unless on a boss. I do agree though the focus cost of it is extremely high and needs to be lowered or removed.

Stampede is great as it gives you a shit ton of burst damage. use it with Hero and you will top the meters easily. Though as soon as you lose it, you go down real fast.

As for the Level 90 talent, Glaive Toss is actually very good. Once you start getting some gear it hits harder than any of your shots. Though it does take the right amount of crit gear to do this.

From what I've have seen BM is like running a marathon. My fingers hurt after playing BM and to be honest I've dropped the spec until it gets fixed. Survival I'm not happy with either to be honest, ExoShot doesn't do the damage like it did in 4.3 and to be honest I feel like I'm just tugging along on the meters. Marks on the other hand is very good with the right gear. In beta it was the worst spec for Hunters, but now it seems to be one of the better ones. Again depending on crit, if you can get crits off Aimed Shot this will unlock your Piercing Shots major DoT buff. I'm talking doing 20k dmg in a matter of seconds with that. CS hits for a truckload as well.

@90 my CS is averaging close to 90k hits. In most cases I hit for about 90 and sometimes I'll hit for over 100k. Aimed Shot when it crits hits for over 100k, and on top of that my Kill Shots are hitting for 150-200k with crits. If done right, MM can flat out destroy other classes. My wife plays an Arcane Mage and is better geared than me, and if I hit my shots right and with the right amount of damage, nobody can stop me. Though if my shots don't crit I am just like Survival and being 3rd in a 5 man group.

Hunter does feel a bit "clunky" at this moment. I feel like i have to spam every damn button in every situation. Which messes up the flow that the class had in cataclysm and most of the other expansions.

Where I do like Powershot in BG's I hate it in any other situation. The glaive toss feels out of place and more a rogue ability. And barrage is.... well its a channeld spell...

Dire beast is bugged and the AI does not work as intended. Lynx Rush is an ability like rogues vendetta which didn't work in WOTLK or whenever it was implanted, so why should it now.... on hunters? Murder of something... costs a lot does not do a lot. Blink strike is on a CD that is immense for such a low rated ability. Thrill of the hunt makes our rotation go even more nuts and Fervor is absolutly a brain dead ability that works well in PVP...

no i do not like it that much... shaman seems more my thing at this moment.

Personally I think they definitely went overboard with the rotations. BM has it worst- I tried playing it last night in our first raid and I felt like I just couldn't play it well so I gave up and switched to SV and it was doing similar damage, but given what I'm seeing on WoL rankings I know I'll have to get used to BM enough to play it for maximum effect.

Part of the problem is readiness combined with the new abilities- the first 20-30 sec of a fight are an incredible spamathon trying desperately to keep up with making sure all your abilities get off at the right time. After that things settle down a bit but it's still a ton of juggling and on a more chaotic fight I felt like I couldn't really pay attention to anything outside my buttons. On Feng it wasn't too bad as I got to really settle down and mostly just dps, but on Stone Guard with the constant moving and target trades and sorting out mechanics stuff it was just really distracting.

I didn't really do any raiding after 5.0 till now, so most of my practice with the new abilities has been in dungeons so I expect now that we're raiding again I'll settle in more, but I really think they need to find a way to cut things down a bit, which is difficult now that we have the abilities since people would complain if we lost anything.

I absolutely hate playing Hunter right now and that's saying a lot since I've played nothing but Hunter as my main since Vanilla. We've had some rough times, but this one takes the cake. It feels like they were trying to do something major with the class, but stopped halfway through.

Hunter feels broken and underpowered compared to nearly every other class with a few exceptions.

Tier 75 talents are a BM-fest.
Tier 90 talents are just dumb.

Glaive Toss is the only PvE option, Barrage is just overall bad compared to the other two in it's current form and Powershot has very limited uses in PvP, since nobody will ever let you stand and cast it, except in random battlegrounds. In PvE it's not great either when paired against Glaive Toss, so what's the point of these talents? Variety? It's not really diversity unless you can use the other 2 to the same extent as the best one.

It's gotten to the point where I am in the process of re-rolling, just because Hunter isn't fun for me anymore. Arcane Shot spamming with ToTH was fun for a while but got boring really fast. Not to mention being at the bottom of the DPS meter in raids is kind of frustrating. It doesn't happen on every boss attempt, but so far I'm not impressed going from top-ish to rock bottom. It's sad to see the difference between classes in DPS being such a huge gap without some sort of balance being done. One step at a time I suppose, but unless they give Hunter's some love, I'm going to be swapping raiding mains.

I play survival and i love thrill of the hunt. Yes it makes the rotation much more spammy, but i was always a sucker for instant casts and i always disliked using too much castable shots for focus (cobra, steady, whatever), so it fits very well.

Unfortunately, tier 75 and 90 is just where it goes completely downhill for me.

Tier 75 adds another cooldown and all three are anoying and don't add nothing interesting to my gameplay. AMOC with 60 focus is just ridiculous, the other 2 are just an anoyance more than fun.

Tier 90 is basicaly to add glaive toss every 15 seconds to a rotation that is already filled with cooldowns and abilities, powershot is terribly too long to cast and is impossible to use well in survival playstyle, and barrage is great to pull mobs we DON'T want to pull! thanks...

Also, i never realy liked black arrow implementation. Low damage, long cooldown, can't use it for multidoting if we wanted, it's just ... odd.

Also, the damage as SV is atm depressing, wich also doesnt help. We have a complex and spammy rotation and even then it doesnt pay off in dps.

I agree, there's way too much pet crap in our class now. I was hoping for at least a talent that would let us free ourselves of the pet but we didnt get it. Instead we got the opposite.

Anyway, here's what Ive seen from SV and MM scince Ive ben playing those specs in dungeons/old raids. I use MoC for both specs because it has the longest CD and I didnt want more CDs to hit all the time or pet talents. I also use TotH for both. Glaive Toss in SV and Barrage in MM.

Due to TotH Im swimming in focus as MM. Theres really nothing to use to dump focus since CS cooldown is so long and AiS takes too long to cast to make it efficient. So I shoot AS when CS is on cooldown except they also end up giving me focus 90% of the time. TotH is awesome for AoE though since I can MS almost forever. Barrage is fun but Im not sure if its DPS is better than GT and it pulls extra stuff if you are too close to the next pack.

For SV Im almost always focus starved. The only time I use AS is when TotH is up. GT is easy to weave in since you just shoot it instead of AS when its off CD. For MoC it can be tricky to get your focus up high enough before ES comes off cooldown so you can use both. The first one is usually easy since its during RF but later you just have to save up focus. The number of actions to push at the start of a fight is ridiculous though and my #1 issue is with Readiness having a 5min CD that doesnt line up with RF. They could have left the 3min CD and still not have it refresh BW and Stampede.
So far I feel very vulnerable in PvP since were one of the few classes that have very little self healing. Its still extremely difficult to kill a hybrid and healers are next to impossible. In the meantime if I dont get heals Im dead pretty quick. They really need to nerf hybrid heals.