I would not mind paying $80 to get the source versions of HL and related games. I would consider it money well spent - compared to the $35 I spent on Doom 3, which from what I have played so far, is the same old same old that id continually churns out.

zuul where do you live? Here in Ontario Canada there are plenty of x800 xt PE actually that's all there is the 800pro are in back order and have been for months. A month ago the 800xt PE had a 2 week back order but that ended quick. I might have been lucky but I got my x800 xt 2 weeks ago no wait, maybe cause ATI is a 3 hour drive from here?! Anyways both cards are excellent the geforce6800 ultra is faster in doom3 and opengl games I imagine and the rest is pretty much even 50 or 10 fps either way. I picked the x800 xt PE just because it was $650/700 canadian and the 6800ultra was $775 canadian just enough to saving to buy another gig of ram. Competition did not drive the prices down but we sure got 2 kick @ss prodicts to chose from! The 9700pro that i sold a month ago wa my best upgrade ever but these 2 cards have even more potential depending on how fast the graphics technology moves for the next 3 years.

Retail is supposed to be around $500, but a lot of places are charging closer to $600, and people are still buying them.

I went with a GT...the main clock is only 50mhz slower (350, vs 400), and the ram speed is slightly slower. The difference in FPS is Doom 3 is anywhere from 2-9 FPS, and yet the GT is $100 cheaper. And you can always overclock it, if you feel inclined...

I will think peaceful, happy thoughts about getting my new video card RMA'd.

Source is the new engine that Valve is developing. The engine is the underlying code and core technology which powers a game. Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2 and Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines are all games that will use the Source engine. In addition, Valve is going to port all of their old content (Running on the Half-Life engine, which was a heavily modified Quake engine) to the new Source Engine. This includes Counter-Strike, and the original Half-Life.

I'll put on my tin-foil hat and say that either each every one of them are incompetent or were asked not to ask those kind of question.

Yeah, Valve has been extremly tight lipped about the source ports.. I'm guessing they're still trying to figure out just how much money they can get away with charging for the ports without looking like bad guys.

I've just googled it a little and apparently it's not official yet that HL1 will only be available with the collector's edition.

However, every single FAQ and interview somehow forget to ask if the extra content will be available with wich edition (aside from CS:S). I'll put on my tin-foil hat and say that either each every one of them are incompetent or were asked not to ask those kind of question. Here's the official stance (it's almost always the exact same question/answer).

10. Computer Games Romania: Should we expect a Collector's Edition of Half-Life 2 close to its release date? Can you give us some details about its contents? Doug Lombardi: It is my understanding that the Collector's Edition willbe released at retail at the same time as the standard edition. I do not have the final contents, but I can tell you that it will include a mix of extra playable content as well as some collectable type of items.

And on hl2fallout's FAW:

Q: What are Source Conversions?A: "Source" is the engine Half-Life 2 is built on. More information on Source from the official site. At E3 2004, Valve surprised just about everyone with their plan to convert the original Half-Life and a number of its expansions and mods to the Source engine. So far these are said to include: Original Half-Life (single-player) Opposing Force (expansion) Blue Shift (expansion) Counter-Strike (mod) Day of Defeat (mod)[...]Q: Will they be free?A: In a recent video, Valve intimated that CS: Source will be free for all owners of HL2 (and not just for those who buy the CE as originally thought). At this point, it seems likely the other conversions will not be free. Reportedly they will sell at regular budget-game prices via Steam or come packaged with the aforementioned collector's edition. Of course, this may all change before HL2's release.

It would also sorta be a drag if they included those as extras in the collectors edition I see being offered because I really don't feel like spending $80, HL2 or not.

You'll have to if you want HL SP, I can't remember for the rest (I'm almost sure CS:S will be in the normal edition), but HL1 will only be included in the most expensive version of the 3. Wich kinda piss me of because I was very - very - close to buying my first PC game in years. I might still end up doing it, but I'm going to download the collectors edition just for the extra (single player content). By the time it's released, gaming will be very, very far from a priority, so I couldn't care less about the multi-player component of the game. For this year atleast.

People shouldn't be worried about performance, it ran great (and looked great on my GeForce4ti4200 128MB) with the leasked alpha/beta wich was very far from finished and optimized. And I can't see them screwing up.

Just a wild guess here, but it might be possible that the HL2 scratch off thing might be delicate because the guy may have stored it for the last year in an humid environment. Wild guess, they might be cheap too.

I downloaded the gameplay footage availiable on Boomtown (posted yesterday requires free registration) and it looks quite nice. The gameplay shown is the upgraded de_dust map, which I must say looks quite nice. The lighting is realitic and dramatic and the models are nice. The gameplay looks to be the same but the scenery has been upgraded and it's more open. I don't think this nor HL2 will approach the eye candy levels of Doom III but I, for one, don't care. The gameplay is what matters most and I am not gonna mind if every surface isn't bump mapped. There wasn't much physics stuff displayed in the video, so I can't comment on that, except that I'm not really sure how the physics would factor much into CS (except for barrels and grenades and stuff). All in all, it impressed me. I positively can't wait for HL2. I have never pre-ordered in my life but I just might have to for HL2.

On another note, I am really hoping that valve doesn't renig on their proposal to upgrade all the original official content, like TFC, HLDM and HL SP. It would be very cool to have upgraded versions of all the originals. It would also sorta be a drag if they included those as extras in the collectors edition I see being offered because I really don't feel like spending $80, HL2 or not.

Lastly, for those worrying about performance, you should be okay if you have 6xxx nvidia card. X-Bit Labs had some benchmarks back a little while ago including numbers from a Highly Anticipated DirectX 9 Game, which happened to be HL2. The latest nvidia cards held their own against the latest ATI cards. Can't remember who performed best overall but you'll get decent performance from either camp.

With all this said, I eagerly await a gold announcement. Come on' valve, get 'er out the door!

had no problem scratching mine off. in related hl2 news, well for me at least, i have canceled my order for my x800xt and bought a geforce 6800 ultra got tired of the constant push backs on stock for the ati cards and i've been waiting since june!! anywho, i hope hl2 will still run good on this card i guess i'm still an ati fanboy, cuz if that card was available to me, i'd have it but i don't think i'll be dissappointed with this card.