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No, Ken, and I'd really like to. I trained with Lorie when I was winter training in the Southeast years ago. Nice lady, and very dog smart!

Evan

"Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

I figgered you "Golden Folks" hung out together!!!
the cover is a "Motivation" for all dogs owners not just goldens.
and why so many book covers for those marsh mops?
Carol's, Lorie's, your avitar so probably yours... what the heck

Last edited by Ken Bora; 01-03-2013 at 09:25 AM.

"So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

"The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

I called my recent puppy back to me about 1/3 of the time in FTP to cure this. That way, she was never sure whether she was going to the back pile or coming in to me when she was stopped. When I did bring her in I gave her a retrieve, so she always got rewarded and things stayed upbeat. Being called in to me wasn't a punishment or removal of any rewards, just something else she was being asked to do. We did plenty of sends to the back pile with pressure to solidify the "go" command, but when I stop you, it's just because I want you to do something else, so look at me and I'll show you...

Evan, you're definitely right, this is my first dog to train so I'm as "new" a trainer as you can get.

Angie! I'll definitely call the pros first next time! I just wanted to give you and Tim atleast a week off from my million questions!!

Bean is quickly learning to watch me or he has to stop and get a new cast... Did a morning session and afternoon session today and he did awesome both times! Tim told me to do less trips to the pile and it really changed his performance and attitude. Thanks for all y'all's help! We'll be out sometime next week to run some marks.

And it's resulted in a problem; an easy one, but a problem. What is the objection to sound training? 3-handed casting is a simple, well-controlled environment in which to work out simple, fundamental issues like eye contact. If you can't get decent eye contact when the dog is 10 feet away, why would he make eye contact at 100 yards or more? If he doesn't make eye contact, why would he take accurate casts? I get the impression this trainer is a newer, possibly first time trainer, not a seasoned pro. A simple easy to control drill like 3-handed casting is just the ticket to put his dog together well in this basic handling situation.

I'm laughing now,,,, You said yourself why the dog isn't making eye contact. It's the forced compulsion to the pile!!.. So instead of moving to another drill to get us all warm and fuzzy? How about working on the eye contact in the drill you're working on? Lots of good suggestions. Moving up,, tossing a bumper, calling in, casting and letting the dog make the mistake for not "listening" to what you're trying to tell them. Maybe even putting a dog on a rope again until the new first time dog trainer and dog get to know one another??

3 hand cast is fine but dollars to donuts the dog won't generalize the eye contact from the fun happy casting drill to the pile scenario which has had all the pressure associated with it. Dogs don't generalize well. I repeat,,,, Dogs don't generalize well especially when they are young and under pressure!!

3 hand cast for me is 1) a puppy game or 2) done right before T,, that's a single "T" btw....

I'm laughing now,,,, You said yourself why the dog isn't making eye contact. It's the forced compulsion to the pile!!.. So instead of moving to another drill to get us all warm and fuzzy? How about working on the eye contact in the drill you're working on?

Angie

Because I follow a time honored principle of dog training; "Simplify". To you 3-handed casting is a puppy game. Okay. To me it evolves into a working drill to teach fundamental casts. In that process essential basic skills begin to form, including making eye contact. Once this dog acquires a reason to want to make eye contact his basic handling work can progress. Why does the idea of simplifying these tasks bother you so much?

Evan

"Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”