You might try replacing the flamer suits with more fire warriors. One of the best defenses against mortal wounds is simply more bodies. You get more wounds, longer range, and higher strength shots. If that all sounds too "6th edition" for you, I would suggest a different loadout. Maybe drop the stealths, upgrade the flamers to missile pods. Higher strength, longer range, AP 1, and D3 wounds. You get less shots, but the range is so great that you can run away and still shoot. This also helps against an opponent that suddenly brings a lot more transports than you thought.

Flamer suits can do a lot of damage but I don't think flamer suits do enough damage for the points they cost to bring in.... Switching them to atsx1 cibsx2 should be more effective battle gear for damaging a wide range of foes. You can use drones to shield your better shooters from smite spam if you don't have more models. You can also defend against smite spite with kroot and kroot hounds. They are cheap point wise to make a good smite damage buffer

Bubble wrap seems to be the go-to defense against Smite, while MOAR FUSION seems to be the solution to problems v monstrous creatures. So, yeah... more drones, more Fusion Blasters. And yeah, Missile Pods takes your suits WELL outside the range of being hit with most of this stuff... if you have a REALLY LONG table, anyways. Either double down on range or double down on raw power output... that's all I can think of. The Flamers were just dead weight against his army.

I know the feeling. I just had a 500 pt game against a swarm of Gargoyles, a team of Warriors, and a team of Termigaunts with a flying Hive Tyrant... with my list consisting of Burst Cannons, Drones and Strikers. I tabled his entire army save the Tyrant by the end, but inflicting any damage whatsoever on his leader was freaking impossible.

So I've been wondering you say he had single zoanthropes a lot but do you mean Nuerothropes? Those would be HQ characters. Did he actually leave them as the closest models so much that you could try to shoot them all game?

fraction64 wrote:So I've been wondering you say he had single zoanthropes a lot but do you mean Nuerothropes? Those would be HQ characters. Did he actually leave them as the closest models so much that you could try to shoot them all game?

They were HQ characters, he called them zonethrope but might have been an old habit? one was on his right flank behind a carnifex but I got stealth suits close enough to get a Homing beacon 10" away and drop the suits so the thrope was closer.

In my head approx 30 hits would get 15wounds and combined with stealth suits should have been enough to do 5 wounds past his 3++, mathematically the 9 flamers should have killed it. Irl did 1 wound.

fraction64 wrote:So I've been wondering you say he had single zoanthropes a lot but do you mean Nuerothropes? Those would be HQ characters. Did he actually leave them as the closest models so much that you could try to shoot them all game?

It's called neurothrope but it's the same model as the zoanthrope, probably he was just using the name he knew the model by habbit.

Those Carnifex have a lot of long range shooting, and your flamer crisis suits have no good targets.

Within our index your list isn't bad. But I recently played the new 'nid codex and the amount of large bodies they can bring at low points is disturbing. The 'keel only has 3-5 fussion shots for an 18'' range, and you don't have much else to deal with large stuff.

I think this comes done to Codex vs. Index's and the rock paper scissor effect in 40k. Where he just took a lot of big stuff.

I'm pretty much at the point of having two list with me. One to play againts Codex's with 3-4 commanders and stuff I have designed to take out Codex and MEQ units. and a normal list for other Indexs.

kruetz wrote:Those Carnifex have a lot of long range shooting, and your flamer crisis suits have no good targets.

Within our index your list isn't bad. But I recently played the new 'nid codex and the amount of large bodies they can bring at low points is disturbing. The 'keel only has 3-5 fussion shots for an 18'' range, and you don't have much else to deal with large stuff.

I think this comes done to Codex vs. Index's and the rock paper scissor effect in 40k. Where he just took a lot of big stuff.

I'm pretty much at the point of having two list with me. One to play againts Codex's with 3-4 commanders and stuff I have designed to take out Codex and MEQ units. and a normal list for other Indexs.

Yeah it's disturbing how cheap and effective carnifexes are now, and I was hoping to play vs guard, eldar or another T'au, when I got offered the nids game I thought I'd be seeing gaunts and stealers with 1 tyrant in 1000pts so thought I'd be fine.

Their MC's made me realise how outclassed ours are and how much a disadvantage the keel having 10wounds vs 8 is, I'd honestly rather pay the 10-15 pts less and have 1-2 less wounds, same goes for the Riptide I have no idea why it needs 14 wounds I'd rather pay 80pts for it and have 8 wounds and with a weapon cost reduction I'd go out and buy 1 today, as it stands I'd rather the 3 carnifexes for same points...

kruetz wrote:Those Carnifex have a lot of long range shooting, and your flamer crisis suits have no good targets.

Within our index your list isn't bad. But I recently played the new 'nid codex and the amount of large bodies they can bring at low points is disturbing. The 'keel only has 3-5 fussion shots for an 18'' range, and you don't have much else to deal with large stuff.

I think this comes done to Codex vs. Index's and the rock paper scissor effect in 40k. Where he just took a lot of big stuff.

I'm pretty much at the point of having two list with me. One to play againts Codex's with 3-4 commanders and stuff I have designed to take out Codex and MEQ units. and a normal list for other Indexs.

Yeah it's disturbing how cheap and effective carnifexes are now, and I was hoping to play vs guard, eldar or another T'au, when I got offered the nids game I thought I'd be seeing gaunts and stealers with 1 tyrant in 1000pts so thought I'd be fine.

Their MC's made me realise how outclassed ours are and how much a disadvantage the keel having 10wounds vs 8 is, I'd honestly rather pay the 10-15 pts less and have 1-2 less wounds, same goes for the Riptide I have no idea why it needs 14 wounds I'd rather pay 80pts for it and have 8 wounds and with a weapon cost reduction I'd go out and buy 1 today, as it stands I'd rather the 3 carnifexes for same points...

Don't hope to see Genestealer. They can do some pretty nasty things with them. Like a guaranteed first turn charge for example (put them in a trygon tunnel and drop a lord in the egg beside them to give them a free move&advance before charging).I'd say Genestealer, Carnifex and the Psyker are the best units in their Codex. Followed directly by Warrior (especially with a Prime), Ravener and gaunts.

kruetz wrote:Those Carnifex have a lot of long range shooting, and your flamer crisis suits have no good targets.

Within our index your list isn't bad. But I recently played the new 'nid codex and the amount of large bodies they can bring at low points is disturbing. The 'keel only has 3-5 fussion shots for an 18'' range, and you don't have much else to deal with large stuff.

I think this comes done to Codex vs. Index's and the rock paper scissor effect in 40k. Where he just took a lot of big stuff.

I'm pretty much at the point of having two list with me. One to play againts Codex's with 3-4 commanders and stuff I have designed to take out Codex and MEQ units. and a normal list for other Indexs.

Yeah it's disturbing how cheap and effective carnifexes are now, and I was hoping to play vs guard, eldar or another T'au, when I got offered the nids game I thought I'd be seeing gaunts and stealers with 1 tyrant in 1000pts so thought I'd be fine.

Their MC's made me realise how outclassed ours are and how much a disadvantage the keel having 10wounds vs 8 is, I'd honestly rather pay the 10-15 pts less and have 1-2 less wounds, same goes for the Riptide I have no idea why it needs 14 wounds I'd rather pay 80pts for it and have 8 wounds and with a weapon cost reduction I'd go out and buy 1 today, as it stands I'd rather the 3 carnifexes for same points...

Don't hope to see Genestealer. They can do some pretty nasty things with them. Like a guaranteed first turn charge for example (put them in a trygon tunnel and drop a lord in the egg beside them to give them a free move&advance before charging).I'd say Genestealer, Carnifex and the Psyker are the best units in their Codex. Followed directly by Warrior (especially with a Prime), Ravener and gaunts.

Replace hope with expected, and atleast I can hurt Genestealer with str5 shooting. R'ymr lasted 2 rounds of combat vs a hive tyrant without taking a wound, then died next turn to a double smiting

Panzer wrote:Don't hope to see Genestealer. They can do some pretty nasty things with them. Like a guaranteed first turn charge for example (put them in a trygon tunnel and drop a lord in the egg beside them to give them a free move&advance before charging).I'd say Genestealer, Carnifex and the Psyker are the best units in their Codex. Followed directly by Warrior (especially with a Prime), Ravener and gaunts.

Or even watch out for hive fleet that starts with a J. They remove the 1 unit cap per trygon, grants the same ability to mawlocks and ravenors. So you can put both genestealers and a brood Lord with any of them. Plus they always count as in cover granting +1 to their save.