Minutes of Evidence: Day 1

Report of the commissioners appointed to enquire into and report upon the circumstances connected with the sufferings and death of Robert O'Hara Burke and William John Wills.
Melbourne: John Ferres, Government Printer.
Parliamentary papers, No 97, 1861-2. 1862.

Friday, 22nd November 1861.

All members of the Commission were present:
* The Honorable Sir T. S. Pratt, K.C.B., in the Chair.
* The Honorable the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly [Sir Frances Murphy MP].
* The Honorable the Acting President of the Legislative Council [Matthew Hervey MLC].
* The Honorable J. F. Sullivan, Esq, MP.
* Evelyn P. S. Sturt, Esq.

The meeting commenced at noon in the large committee room adjoining the Legislative Council Chamber. Sir Thomas Pratt was appointed chairman. Mr Dumas, the Assistant Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, was appointed Secretary for the duration of this meeting.

The Chairman, Sir Thomas Pratt noted the press were present at the Enquiry and trusted they would forbear commenting on the evidence which might be taken from day to day, until such time as it was completed.

Dr Macadam was present to present the books and papers on behalf of the Royal Society of Victoria and Mr Brahe, Mr Haverfield and Dr Wills were also in attendance.

The Honorable John Macadam, Esq., M.D., M.P., examined.

Q1. [Pratt] The Commission wish to be furnished with a
statement of the party started up by the Exploration Committee,
the instructions given by the committee to them and the supplies
with which they were furnished on leaving ? - I have been deputed
by the Exploration Committee to bring all the papers connected
with the progress of the expedition and to submit them to the
Commission for full investigation. I will hand in a list of the
parties sent out ant the positions they occupied and a copy of
the agreement made with them and the instructions given to them.
Robert O'Hara Burke, Esq. was the leader, Mr Landells was
second in command Mr Wills was the astronomer and surveyor, Dr.
Beckler was medical officer and botanist Dr Becker was artist,
naturalist and also undertook to conduct the geological
observations, Mr Ferguson was foreman, and there were nine
persons besides in the position of subordinates. The names of
those persons with their salaries attached will be found in the
agreement which will be placed before the Commission. The
instructions which were given were regulated according to the
duties of the officers of the party. Copies of the instructions
to astronomical observer and to the geological observer and to
the botanist will also be laid before the Commission. I may state
that these were drawn up by committees consisting of gentlemen
apparently in every way suited to draw up such instructions as
would prove of the greatest public benefit from the observations
made. The astronomical part was left to Professor Neumayer, the
natural history and botany to Dr Mueller, Professor McCoy, and
others, and everything was done to ensure a safe transmission to
the committee of all the observations made. Those observations
were received at different times, as the books will show, and
were taken every care of, and when they required any further
examination or calculations, as in the case of Mr wills' notes,
the notes were transmitted to the observatory and a person
employed so as to make up the calculations and mark out the camps
as to their precise positions. The instructions which were sent
to Mr Burke I may perhaps be permitted to read at this stage.

(The same was read by the witness. - Vide Appendix A). [Macadam read the instructions given to Burke.] - Those are
the main instructions.

Q2. [Pratt] Leaving him a very wide discretion
apparently ? -A very wide discretion, and indeed previously to
the issue of those instructions, the committee decided to leave
Burke entirely to his own discretion when he left Cooper's
Creek.

Q3. [Pratt] Is that on record ?-I believe it is on the
minutes.

Q4. [Pratt] Will you furnish that to the Commission ?
-Perhaps I may leave the examination of the minutes at this stage
as they are handed in; I can recur [sic] to them again.

Q5. [Murphy] Were those instructions given in writings ?
-Yes.

Q6. Were they in duplicate ? -Yes; and since
that copies have been given to the commanders of the several
expeditions which went out. There is one point which I would
notice here, that the committee distinctly set forth in the
instructions themselves, that Mr Burke could make arrangements
for keeping open communications in the rear to the Darling if in
his opinion advisable, and hence to Melbourne, so that the
committee might receive intelligence; and I may quote from a
despatch of Mr Burke's which will show the Commission that Mr
Burke recognised this responsibility in a letter written from
Menindie; in his letter to the committee, dated the 16th
October,1860, at Menindie, he says, "It is my intention to form a
depot on this river, somewhere in this neighbourhood, and to
proceed on towards Cooper's Creek with a small party by a route
which will be shown to me by Mr Wright, manager for Mr Baker,
and which I have every reason to believe is quite practicable,
but I shall not incur any risk, and I shall keep open the
communication to the Darling." That is the last despatch to us
before he left Menindie.

Q7. [Sturt] Have you any subsequent letters from him ?
-We had one from Torowoto, halfway to Cooper's Creek, which was
sent back by Mr Wright; that is dated the 29th of
October.

Q8. [Sullivan] Have you the whole of Mr Burke's
correspondence ? -Yes.

Q9. Will those papers be handed in to the
Commission ? -Yes, everything. There is a later despatch dated
Torowoto Creek 29th October, 1860, when he was about to start,
giving the particulars and the names of the men. He says "Mr
Wright returns from here to Menindie. I have appointed him as
third officer of the expedition, subject to the approval of the
committee, from the day of our departure from Menindie, and I
hope they will confirm the appointment. In the meantime I have
instructed him to follow me up with the remainder of the camels,"
and so on. It will be seen by this quotation that Mr Wright was
an officer selected entirely by Mr Burke, that he had every
confidence in him, and the committee afterwards ratified his
appointment.

[Murphy suggested it would be better to proceed in a more formal manner by handing in a list of the party and provisions and stores and then all the correspondence.]

Q10. [Murphy] Would you, after you have read the
instructions, hand into the Commission a list of the supplies
with which the party started ?-I now hand in the list of stores,
horses, and equipments, taken from the Government Storekeeper's
books. [The witness delivered in the same - Vide Appendix C.] I
may state the committee did not purchase these articles
themselves, but all the articles necessary for the expedition
were first of all mainly suggested by Mr Burke, approved of by
the committee of the society appointed for the purpose,
afterwards submitted to the approval of the Honorable the Chief
Secretary, and then passed on to the Government Storekeeper, who
supplied the articles and furnished us afterwards with the
account.

Q11. These are the whole of the things supplied
to the expedition at starting ?-Yes, except scientific
instruments, &c.

Q12. Was the quantity of provisions fixed for a
certain time ?-Yes, it was arranged that the amount of provisions
should be capable of supporting the whole party for eighteen
months.

Q13. The whole party, men, horses, and cattle
of all kinds ?-Yes.

Q14. [Sturt] Had you any correspondence from Mr Wright
when he was at Menindie ?-Yes. I may state that though the
provisions were calculated to last eighteen months yet it was
supposed that by care they might last for two years.

Q15. [Sturt] Does Mr Wright in his correspondence show
the quantity of supplies he had at Menindie after Mr Burke had
left?-I think not. We have no list of the stores left by Mr
Burke at Menindie but we had afterwards a list in this book of
the stores brought back by Mr Wright from Cooper's Creek, as
well as those left by Mr Burke

Q16. [Murphy] Then in this book are all the stores
supplied to the expedition when it started from Melbourne ?-Not
only the whole of the stores supplied to the expedition when they
started from Melbourne but also the amount of stores found by Mr
Howitt at Menindie when he started. The total expenditure for
stores, &c., was £4,585/2s./10d.; that included wagons
and equipment generally.

Q17. [Pratt] Did not Mr Burke detail to the committee
what he had done with those stores and the quantity he left
behind at Menindie when he started from there ?-I am not aware
that Mr Burke left any detailed account of the stores left at
Menindie.

Q18. [Sturt] Did Mr Wright have occasion to send Mr
Hodgkinson down to Melbourne, pointing out that fresh supplies
and sheep would be required ?-Yes, in his despatch received per
Mr Hodgkinson, who arrived on the 30th December, he pointed out
the desirability of having an additional supply of horses and
about 150 sheep, which he intended to drive on to Cooper's Creek.
I may mention that this was received by the committee on the
30th, a meeting was held on the 31st, and within the following
two days Mr Hodgkinson was despatched, not only with the
£250 for horses and sheep asked for by Mr wright, but
£150 more (in all £400), with further authority to
expend anything that was deemed necessary.

Q19. That appears in the minutes ?-Yes. Mr
Wright was taken on by Mr Burke on the 19th October; on the
29th he arrived at Torowoto, which is about 200 miles from
Menindie. Then Mr Burke gave instructions to Mr Wright to
return and to bring up the stores as rapidly is possible to
Cooper's Creek. Mr wright left Torowoto as I understand on the
31st October, but the first despatch I had from him at Menindie
is dated the 19th December. How he occupied himself between
those two dates does not appear, considering he had gone up in
eight days, and there is a difference here of a month and
nineteen days on the return journey, presuming he wrote this
despatch the moment he reached Menindie.

Q20. Is this correspondence numbered ?-They are
not numbered, but they are all put up and marked distinctly, the
numbers are placed upon them as regards each particular
letter.

Q21. [Sturt] Had you any letters from Mr Brahe
?-There is just Mr Brahe's report given to us, drawn up by
him in town here, but Mr Brahe came on from Cooper's Creek
to Menindie after joining Mr Wright at Bulla, and then came on
by himself to town.

Q22. [Sullivan & Murphy] Then there was no correspondent with the
committee but Mr Burke; until Mr Burke finally left he was the
only correspondent of the committee ?-We had afterwards
correspondence with Mr Wright and personal interviews with Mr
Brahe who came back on one occasion, and Mr Hodgkinson who
came back on another.

Q23. Until the time that Mr Burke finally
ceased corresponding, did you have any correspondence with any
other member of the expedition ? -No, with the exception of his
last letters from Cooper's Creek.

Q24. Were the communications with Mr
Hodgkinson, when he returned, personal, or was there any written
correspondence ?-No; he only brought Mr Wright's
letter.

Q25. Have you any minutes of Mr Hodgkinson's
communications with the committee ?- No; Mr Hodgkinson himself
made a statement which appeared in the press afterwards.

Q26. [Pratt] Did it come to your knowledge as
secretary, that Mr Burke expressed the strongest desire to the
committee to be left untrammelled by instructions ?-No, not
particularly; because Mr Burke understood that from Cooper's
Creek he was to consider himself free; that was the general
understanding.

Q27. [Sturt] Did the committee give Mr Burke any
instructions as to forming a depot at Cooper's Creek
?-Nothing further than in the general instructions.

Q28. Those were definite instructions for the
formation of a depot at Cooper's Creek ?- Yes; it says "The
committee invest you with the largest discretion as far as the
forming of depot s and other camps generally."

Q29. Which depot seems not to have been
formed ?- There was a depot formed at Cooper's Creek, and
left in charge of a portion of the party.

Q30. [Hervey] Is there any correspondence or interview
recorded with Mr Landells ?- There is a letter from Mr Landells
when he arrived here with an account of certain unpleasant
circumstances which had transpired between Mr Landells and Mr
Burke, and some difference of opinion as to the management of the
camels and so on, but nothing appertaining at all to direction as
regards route.

Q31. Will you formally hand in the letters and
documents ?- Mr Landells report forms one of the letters. - The
witness handed in the following documents, viz:- Instructions and Minutes of the Committee.

1. A List of the Supplies furnished.
2. Correspondence and Despatches of Mr Burke
3. Mr Wright's Diary.
4. Despatches from Dr Becker.
5. Dr Beckler's Statement in relation to his
resignation.
6. Meteorological Notes by Dr Becker.
7. Letters from Dr Becker.
8. Mr Hodgkinson's Statement in reference to Mr
Landells.
9. Dr Becker's Diary up to 14th November [1860].
10. Letter of Mr Wills to Professor Neumayer, in reference to
Mr Landells resignation.
11. Correspondence relating to the purchase of horses by Mr
Wright.
12. Despatch from Mr Howitt from Pamamoroo Creek.
13. Diary of Mr howitt from 1st September to 9th October
1861.
14. Mr Howitt's Despatches.
15. Despatches from Captain Mayne, the Auditor-General
in Sydney.
16. Despatches from Mr Knowles, left by Mr howitt in charge
of the Menindie depot .
17. Mr Landells' Report in reference to his resignation.
18. Mr Wright's second Despatch.
19. Mr Hodgkinson's Statement with reference to the
depot at Menindie.
20. Despatches containing the particulars of the return
journey of Mr wright
21. Mr Howitt's further Despatches, received 31st October [1861] and
4th November [1861].
22. Narrative of John King.
23. Mr William Brahe's Report.
24. Despatches from Captain Norman from Brisbane, received
26th August [1861].
25. Further Despatches from Brisbane from Captain Norman,
received on 7th September [1861].
26. Agreement for conveyance of coals to the Gulf of
Carpentaria.
27. Notes of Plants by Dr Beckler (three papers).
28. Further Despatches from Captain Mayne in reference to
Rockhampton Expedition.
29. Mr Wills' Reports up to 15th December [1860], at Cooper's
Creek.
30. The Charter-party in reference to the Firefly, for
conveying men, horses, and stores from Brisbane to the Gulf of
Carpentaria.
31. Copy of a Letter from Sir Henry Barkly to Sir George
Bowen, with reference to the fitting out of the Expedition from
Queensland.
32. Report of Dr Beckler, the Health Officer to the
Expedition.
33. Dr Becker's Despatches and Diaries.
34. Original list of horses supplied to Mr Wright at
Menindie.
35. Documents referring to expenses at Menindie.

Q32. [Murphy] What men of the original party are
available for examination if the Commission were desirous of
examining them ?-You have Mr King, who is on his way to Swan
Hill at present, and may be expected here on Monday. Mr
Brahe is also here. Mr Wright I have telegraphed for to
South Australia.

Q33. He was not one of the original party ?-No; he was originally from Menindie. Mr McDonough who was one of
Mr Brahe's party from Cooper's Creek, and is now in town
waiting test he should be required. There is also Dost Mahommed,
a sepoy, at Menindie at present; Mr Hodgkinson's evidence would
have been important, but he is now with Mr McKinlay's
party.

[Pratt asked of Dost Mahomet "Does he speak English or is it difficult to make him comprehend what is meant?" Brahe said it was difficult to make him understand in English what was meant. He spoke Hindostanee. He was at Menindie at the moment.]

Q34. [Pratt] Where is Dr Beckler ?-I cannot say. I
believe he can be reached [through Dr Mueller]. [Dr Wills thought Dr Beckler was with Professor Neumayer, somewhere near the Murray. He had that morning seen a letter from Professor Neumayer.] Macadam - Those are all the persons who went on
with the expedition to any extent. There is another man, Smith,
at Menindie, who was with Mr Wright's original party; he is now
attached I think to Mr Howitt's party.

[Hervey asked whether the maps placed on the table were for the use of the Commission? Macadam replied 'Certainly, but the surveyor-general would provide them with a new and complete map embracing Wills' last notes'.]

Q35. King, Brahe, McDonough, Beckler, and
Hodgkinson, were the original party of Mr Burke ?-Yes

Q36. Then of Mr Wright's party who remained
behind, we have Doctor Beckler and Mr Hodgkinson ?-Yes.

Q37. And Mr Smith, who is at Menindie now
?-Yes. I would wish to put in a copy of the last
manuscript account by Mr Brahe, and also Mr King's
narrative, and Mr Wills' notes, transcribed by the committee
appointed for the purpose.-[The witness delivered the same.]-I
would wish to make one statement; I have already spoken of the
rapidity and despatch on the part of the committee in providing
the required supplies for Mr Wright The next visit we had from
a member of the party was after the disastrous result winch
occurred under Mr Wright when Mr Brahe came to town; he
arrived on the Sunday morning at half-past eight; the committee
met that afternoon, and in four days afterwards Mr Howitt's
party was strengthened and despatched, and I think it only a
matter of justice to the committee, to state that Mr howitt was
in the field with his party to ascertain the reason why we had no
information before Mr Brahe arrived in town with the news.
He met Mr Brahe, I think on this side Swan Hill; Mr
Howitt returned with him, and the party was increased and
strengthened in order to meet the additional necessities of the
case. The date on which the committee first considered the
propriety of sending on a party lest anything should be wrong,
because previously to that they had rested on the assurance that
the communication would be kept open, was on the 13th of June;
Mr Brahe arrived on the 30th June, but Mr Howitt's party
was in the field on the 26th of June. Finally Mr Howitt left for
good on the 4th of July. I mention these dates to show that no
loss of time occurred.

Q38. Would you furnish to the Commission that
information on a precis for the use of the Commission ?-I will
furnish a list of dates for the use of the
Commission. Then the notion of sending a steamer to the North
was entertained by the committee on the 24th of June, before the
news came by Mr Brahe; but, as the members of the
Commission may be aware, that vessel, although finally decided
upon to go (or at all events, the proposition to the Government
was made), was under repairs, and could not be despatched for
some three weeks. There is only one other circumstance which I
would state - that Mr Burke, from the evidence, must just have
been dying when Mr Brahe was on his way between Sandhurst
and this. I was also going to remark that Mr wright wrote to
the committee on the 19th of December from Menindie. He left
Menindie for Cooper's Creek on the 26th of January; he arrived
at Bulla 70 miles from Cooper's Creek, on the 4th of April; he
was at Bulla on the 4th of April, 70 miles from Cooper's Creek; Mr Burke arrived there on the 21st, and then Mr Wright had a
most ample supply of provisions of all kinds, including, as one
article, twenty packages of preserved vegetables: he had flour,
rice, pickles, and everything that could have conduced to the
prosperity of the party, and those were, for the most part,
brought back to Menindie afterwards. On the 29th of April he met
Mr Brahe coming back from the creek, eight days after Mr
Burke's arrival, and he reached the Darling on the 18th of
June.

[Pratt said it would be desirable for Macadam to hand in the statement he had just made in writing to be placed with the other statements.]

Q39. In the documents that we have shall we
find the quantity of provisions taken on by Mr Burke, and the
quantity of provisions taken on by Mr Wright, and the quantity
of provisions still left at Menindie as yet undisposed of ?-We
have no official information of the amount of provision taken on
by Mr Burke: he thought he would not wait for the total supply,
and took a certain portion and carried it on. We have an account
of the stores he took with him from Cooper's Creek with his party
of four, and the amount left by Mr Brahe; but if
Mr Hodgkinson can be found out, as he was acting as storeman at
Menindie, I have no doubt he will be able to give information
upon the subject of stores.

The witness withdrew.
Adjourned to Wednesday next [27 November 1861], at one o'clock.