Last night I attended a tenants meeting. A rep for Councilmember Cumbo was there. During discussion about the Armory project, the rep mentioned what the average income is for a family in CB 9. It's not that high at all. That definitely put the discussion about "affordable housing" (and "low-income housing") into perspective.

Last night I attended a tenants meeting. A rep for Councilmember Cumbo was there. During discussion about the Armory project, the rep mentioned what the average income is for a family in CB 9. It's not that high at all. That definitely put the discussion about "affordable housing" (and "low-income housing") into perspective.

Does anyone know where to find (or if it even exists), statistics on what the average rent for said "families" is? I know there are a lot of people in my building who have been living here for 20+ years, have 3 generations of family members living in a rent stabilized apartment for around $600/month. If my rent were that low, I'd be happy to only make $34,151 annually, and spend the rest of my time doing nothing.

It would seem that doing nothing is still quite easy for people in this area... especially for those who have nothing to lose and nothing to gain by doing otherwise. "Doing nothing" is relative. Most older generations seem to live off government funding, while their adult siblings with their children (pushing adulthood) live in the same apartment and contribute little to nothing, yet still find the time to vandalize, loiter, and make money in their own ways under the table. It's just hard to sympathize with a statistic of "official" average income, without taking into consideration the rent and how many adults live in the apartment. That's my point.
To your point, all landlords can do is let those apartments deteriorate and hope the tenants eventually give up. The state of these apartments that people live in is atrocious, yet they keep living in them without complaining (to any source that can help do something about it). It makes for more and more dangerous situations with deteriorating apartments. So are landlords just waiting for buildings to burn down so they can cash in on the insurance, and rebuild for the new generations with more money?

It would seem that doing nothing is still quite easy for people in this area... especially for those who have nothing to lose and nothing to gain by doing otherwise. "Doing nothing" is relative. Most older generations seem to live off government funding, while their adult siblings with their children (pushing adulthood) live in the same apartment and contribute little to nothing, yet still find the time to vandalize, loiter, and make money in their own ways under the table. It's just hard to sympathize with a statistic of "official" average income, without taking into consideration the rent and how many adults live in the apartment. That's my point.

What government funding? Social Security?

How do you know that the adult siblings and their children are contributing little to nothing? How do you know they are vandalizing stuff?

To your point, all landlords can do is let those apartments deteriorate and hope the tenants eventually give up. The state of these apartments that people live in is atrocious, yet they keep living in them without complaining (to any source that can help do something about it). It makes for more and more dangerous situations with deteriorating apartments. So are landlords just waiting for buildings to burn down so they can cash in on the insurance, and rebuild for the new generations with more money?

Even if one were to file complaints to 311, etc, YMMV. Unless there is enforcement against forms of harassment and/or retaliation against the tenant, there seems to be little incentive to start snitching-er-reporting violations

Buildings like mine are rated to be fireproof; what's arson going to do?

At the tenant meeting, there was also a discussion about the effect that preferential leases have on the building. The turnover of tenants seems to be eroding a sense of community.

Usually people find different sources of community other than the building they live in unless as you mention people are doing little else than hanging around.
Generally schools, places of work, and worship are places of community.

Usually people find different sources of community other than the building they live in unless as you mention people are doing little else than hanging around.
Generally schools, places of work, and worship are places of community.

I'm not disputing that. However, when this came up at the meeting, people were referring to certain cultural touchstones of being neighborly and some degree of looking out for one another. Specific examples were named, which I understood, especially since I have also lived in my building for a long time. I can see similar themes in the Brooklyn Jewish Hospital Complex FB group, which I follow.

Besides, even if you work outside the home, if you have a regular schedule, you tend to see the same people repeatedly within a certain time frame. You may even gasp say hello to each other in the elevator or in the lobby!

The sub-$40,000/family income number comes from the 2006 census, so I'm skeptical that reflects reality on the ground today. That data is 11 years old.
In the past 11 years, I am sure the average area income for families has swung upward as:
1) sub-$40,000 earning families in large apartments have been evicted or moved away;
2) families that have moved in their stead into said large apartments or divided apartments make much more than $40,000/year; and
3) there is likely a distinct decline in the number of families living in the neighborhood as young people move into apartments and share apartments as roommates.

How do you know that the adult siblings and their children are contributing little to nothing? How do you know they are vandalizing stuff?
Buildings like mine are rated to be fireproof; what's arson going to do?

At the tenant meeting, there was also a discussion about the effect that preferential leases have on the building. The turnover of tenants seems to be eroding a sense of community.

I've witnessed it all first hand and talked to neighbors. And who mentioned arson? I'm talking about electrical fires, water damage, bedbugs, drug deals, graffiti, rape, and even their own children playing with fireworks inside the apartments. It has all happened in this very building. Not to mention the slumlord who regularly turns off the boiler in the winter to save money, leaving tenants without heat and hot water for over half the day, every day, unless HPD stops by. And despite all this, when offered help from Pratt Area Council, only a handful of tenants came forward asking for help in dealing with the situation. Most are afraid of the landlord, having their rent raised, and revealing illegal activity inside the building/apartments. It's a standoff to see who lasts longer. These tenants don't understand their rights, nor have any desire to follow through with banning together, despite multiple offerings of help. "Doing nothing" is still very much the course of action in my building. And most seem content to live off as little as possible. "Community" in this area seems very subjective to certain pockets of neighbors, but far from where it should be.

1) sub-$40,000 earning families in large apartments have been evicted or moved away;
2) families that have moved in their stead into said large apartments or divided apartments make much more than $40,000/year; and
3) there is likely a distinct decline in the number of families living in the neighborhood as young people move into apartments and share apartments as roommates.

The large families who have been living here for 20+ years in my building are holding their ground. The young people moving in, move out very quickly, due to poor building maintenance. The turnover rate is very high in my building, with long-term families staying put.

@Mechanical_Whispers i'm sure your building is not unique; what I wanted to point out is that even if 20% of those sub-$40,000/year families left the neighborhood (or single-parent families making under $40,000 and who used to have cheap apartments) have left over the past 11 years, the average family income for cb9 is certain to have leapt upwards.

How do you know that the adult siblings and their children are contributing little to nothing? How do you know they are vandalizing stuff?
Buildings like mine are rated to be fireproof; what's arson going to do?

At the tenant meeting, there was also a discussion about the effect that preferential leases have on the building. The turnover of tenants seems to be eroding a sense of community.

I've witnessed it all first hand and talked to neighbors. And who mentioned arson? I'm talking about electrical fires

Back in the day (like in the 70s), I heard that was how building owners looked to be able to walk away from properties they no longer wanted.
My building isn't likely to burn down.

These tenants don't understand their rights, nor have any desire to follow through with banning together, despite multiple offerings of help. "Doing nothing" is still very much the course of action in my building. And most seem content to live off as little as possible. "Community" in this area seems very subjective to certain pockets of neighbors, but far from where it should be.

For some reason, it seems that many tenants for whatever reason don't have much interest in banding together. Ideally, if the majority of people in my building were to band together, some progress can be made, but that's not likely. The demographics have changed, and certain pockets of tenants don't have much to do with others (hence the discussion about a sense of "community").

Maybe some of the newer, younger tenants may have the idealism and the tenacity to fight, but if they were to have preferential leases, it'd be easier for them to stay quiet and/or move, if they can afford it, once the lease is up.

I can understand being content with living off as little as possible, especially if one can't afford to go elsewhere.

@Mechanical_Whispers i'm sure your building is not unique; what I wanted to point out is that even if 20% of those sub-$40,000/year families left the neighborhood (or single-parent families making under $40,000 and who used to have cheap apartments) have left over the past 11 years, the average family income for cb9 is certain to have leapt upwards.

@mugofmead111 I would like to see the data too! I am just speculating, based on the knowledge that the 2006 Census data is out of date and we don't seem to have any other data that offers a more recent snapshot of the neighborhood.
In the alternative, with the number of non-families moving in and whose income might not be counted as "family income" it is entirely possible that CB 9's family income has not jumped up SIGNIFICANTLY; if there are fewer total families living in CB9 means that highs and lows can skew the average. I'd love to see a median income.