Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

I've noticed a lot of the experienced posters around here claim better quality trips from different types of mushrooms. I'm just wondering if this is a mental thing or if some of you really believe that EQ's (as an example) provide a better overall trip.. I suspect at least a small number of you are blowing hot air, but I don't doubt that there is a psychonaut/master cultivator somewhere out there who might actually be able to tell the difference.

So anyway... To be more specific. Are there really subtle differences between strains that aren't directly related to the _dosage of psilocybin_ ? Perhaps some of you are eating fresh mushrooms for the psilocin content and actually noticing a difference?

Also, if anyone knows of some literature that discusses the pharmacology of psilocin as opposed to psilocybin, I would be greatly appreciative of a nod in the right direction. I know I have read something about this before, but I haven't been able to find it recently.

Trips can be different. Alot has to do with the mental state your in while tripping. Also the amount, and the atmosphere your in when you eat them plays a role. As to the mushrooms themselves. This is a nice piece on the active compounds found in the " Pharmacology" section of the Shroomery:
Active Compounds
The compounds responsible for the psychological effects of the Psilocybes are known as tryptamines.

Tryptamines are those compounds that contain an indole ring. These compounds resemble the neurotransmitter serotonin. They are thought to be competitive agonists of 5-HT2 receptors (a particular subtype of the serotonin receptor.) Psilocybin is the most abundant tryptamine in Psilocybe mushrooms and has been present in concentrations ranging from 0.36% in P. stuntzii to 0.98% in P. semilanceata . However, after ingestion it is rapidly dephosphorylated by the enzyme alkaline phosphatase in the intestine. Thus, it is the metabolite psilocin which is thought to be responsible for hallucinations and psychological effects.

Psilocin is the next most abundant compound, ranging from 0.12% in P. stuntzii to .60% in P. cubensis. Its bioavailability (the amount that is absorbed in the bloodstream from the intestines) was found to be around 50% in mice. Psilocin distributes uniformly in most body tissues, except for higher concentrations in the liver and adrenals. In rats, psilocin concentrates in specific areas of the brain: the neocortex, the hippocampus (involved in learning and memory), and thalamus (sensory processing). In rats, about 20% of psilocin is excreted unaltered in the urine, with the remainder excreted as polar conjugate metabolites such as glucoronides. It has been estimated that less than 4% of psilocin is degraded by monoamine oxidase, the enzyme that degrades endogenous monoamines like serotonin.

Baeocystin is usually present in concentrations of less than 0.1%. However, a few species, such as P. semilanceata (Liberty Caps) may have a content as high as 0.36%. Because few pharmacologic studies have been done with baeocystin, its potency relative to psilocin is unknown.

Some mushrooms of genera other than Psilocybe also contain psychoactive tryptamines, including Paneolus, Gymnopilus, and Inocybe.

Short Term Toxicity
Psilocybin does not qualify as a highly toxic substance when one uses traditional measures of acute toxicity such as the LD 50 (the dose required to kill 50% of experimental animals, usually rats.) Psilocybin has an LD 50 of 280mg/kg. In comparison, the LD 50?s of LSD, THC (the active compound in marijuana), and mescaline are 30mg/kg, 42mg/kg, and 370 mg/kg. Thus, when death is considered as the toxic endpoint, psilocybin is one of the least toxic of the hallucinogens. Also, the potential for dependence (physical addiction) of psilocybin and hallucinogens in general is minimal to non-existent, which also tends to support the contention of the relative safety of psilocybin in comparison to other narcotics. However, fatalities and injuries have resulted from falling or car accidents caused by short-term behavioral and perceptual impairment. In a survey of adolescent Psilocybe users, 13% reported serious injury such as head trauma and loss of consciousness.

The most important aspect of psilocybin intoxication in the short-term is the unpredictable time-course and intensity of the symptoms. Psilocybin mushroom ingestion results in hallucinatory symptoms which begin as early as ten minutes post ingestion and typically last anywhere from four to twelve hours, although cases of much longer duration have been reported in the literature. While personal accounts of intoxication share some common themes, both the intensity and length of the hallucinogenic effects of Psilocybes are highly variable. This variability has been attributed to many factors, including the psychological characteristics of the user, the cultural background of the user, the mood or expectations of the user prior to ingestion (the "set"), the environment of the user (the setting), the psilocybin content (which can vary ten-fold between individual species and may change as a result of preparation or handling), previous use of hallucinogens, and concurrent use of other drugs or alcohol. Also, it is possible that individual sensitivities may result from inherited differences in metabolic capability.

The following are common symptoms reported during a typical intoxication:

Children are apparently more susceptible to poisoning from Psilocybe mushrooms, and this has had lethal consequences as in the case below:

A six year old girl ate mushrooms, identified later as P. baeocystis, growing near a conifer stand near her home in Kelso, Washington. She was found by her parents in an ataxic and incoherent state. She was admitted to a local hospital in a convulsive state, with fixed, dilated pupils and warm skin. Her temperature was 106 degrees. She died three days later after developing pulmonary edema.

Many poisonings and deaths have resulted from mistaken identification of common, similar-looking but poisonous species. A case of acute renal failure in a 20 year old female due to ingestion of Cortinarius mushrooms has been reported. The patient admitted that she had bought what she thought were magic mushrooms from a drug dealer. Some deadly North American Cortinarius species may look similar to other mushrooms such as Psilocybes, even for professional mycologists.

Long Term Toxicity
While lethal overdoses with hallucinogens in general and psilocybin in particular are rare, there are a number of case reports of long-term psychiatric and neurologic disturbances attributed to the abuse of hallucinogens which seem to indicate that these substances exert a more long-lasting neurotoxicity, at least in a subset of individuals. LSD, which has a similar structure to psilocybin, has caused persistent palinopsia (visual after images) in some individuals for as long as five years after they ceased taking it. Apparently this phenomena (previously termed 'flashbacks') is a frequent enough occurrence that it has been given its own medical term: Hallucinogen Persisting Perceptual Disorder (HPPD). HPPD is thought to be caused by permanent alterations of visual centers in the brain by LSD. It is not yet clear whether psilocybin also causes HPPD. Ecstasy/XTC (MDMA), a hallucinogen/amphetamine which also interferes with serotonin, has been shown to be neurotoxic to serotonergic nerve fibers in experimental administrations to rats and non-human primates at dosages which could be considered high recreational doses in humans. All three of these hallucinogens, including mushrooms of the genus Psilocybe, have been implicated in cases of prolonged drug-induced psychosis following brief recreational use. The following studies and case reports describe prolonged psychiatric disturbances after ingestion of Psilocybe mushrooms:

In Britain, a 24 year old man presented to a psychiatric outpatient department with a three month history of daily panic attacks, complaining of tension, anxiety, depersonalisation, palpitations, dry mouth, and bounding pulses. He also admitted to feeling suicidal several times since the onset of his illness. Two weeks prior to the onset of these symptoms, he had ingested 25 Psilocybe mushrooms with two pints of beer, after which he became emotionally unstable and experienced pronounced visual disturbances three hours afterward. The patient had no other history of psychiatric problems.
A 25 year old with no history of psychiatric illness but a history of hallucinogen abuse consumed, by his own estimate, approximately 200 mushrooms over the course of a day. He also drank alcohol and smoked marijuana. After experiencing the typical symptoms of psilocybin intoxication, he suddenly became extremely paranoid and aggressive, threatening three detectives who arrested him. The next day he complained of disturbed sleep, irritability, and lack of concentration. Several days later his condition worsened, despite treatment with tranquilizers and anti-depressants for his anxiety and depression, and eventually he was admitted to a hospital. He admitted to consuming 50 mushrooms on two additional occasions prior to his admission. He experienced a flashback episode two days later, along with visual disturbances and panic attacks, and he became aggressive and violent towards the hospital staff. These symptoms continued for fourteen days and did not resolve until four electro-shock therapy sessions. He was finally discharged after ten weeks in the hospital.
A case is reported in the Scandinavian medical journal Ugeskrift For Laeger of a 24 year old Norwegian man who sought psychiatric help for persistent psychological symptoms nine months after consuming Psilocybe mushrooms.
In a study of confirmed cases of P. semilanceata ingestion, a prolonged psychiatric illness occurred in 26 out of 318 cases (over 8%). Of these 26 cases, 21 patients experienced flashback-type episodes lasting up to four months after the initial ingestion of mushrooms. In only five of these 26 cases could the prolonged psychiatric illness be attributed to other possible causes such as prior mental illness. Of the 160 cases in which a follow-up questionnaire was returned, 82 patients were hospitalized. Of these 82 cases, 8 were hospitalized for two or more days because of prolonged hallucinations. Interestingly, in the 16 cases in which these mushrooms were abused with other drugs or alcohol, none had serious or prolonged symptoms of intoxication.
In a study of 27 cases of P. semilanceata ingestion recorded at a British hospital, two patients complained of episodes of panic attacks after ingestion of alcohol, one seven days after the initial ingestion of mushrooms, the other nine days after. In another case, a terrified patient required admission to a psychiatric unit because he believed both God and the Devil were speaking to him. These hallucinations continued for three consecutive nights, despite treatment with anti-psychotics.
The number of cases similar to those described above that do not seek medical attention due to fear of legal consequences cannot be determined. The biological basis for these types of adverse reactions is not known. Some of these cases (1 and 2) seem to involve large quantities of mushrooms and/or concurrent alcohol consumption, while other studies (4 and 5) could not find any correlation between quantity ingested and length or severity of symptoms, or any influence of drug interaction. As the tryptamine content within and between individual mushroom species can vary greatly, it is difficult to get more than a rough estimate of intake of these compounds.

Perhaps the biggest confounding factor in the assessment of adverse reactions to these mushrooms is the large percentage of sham Psilocybe mushrooms sold on the black market which are laced with adulterants. In a 1985 analysis of 886 illegally sold mushrooms claimed to be Psilocybe, only 28% were actually Psilocybes while 31% were common store mushrooms or other varieties laced with LSD or PCP, and 37% were inert. However, individual sensitivity to psilocybin and related compounds could result from inherited deficits in enzymes important for the metabolism of these compounds, which is a well known phenomena for alcohol and prescription drugs, or differences in brain chemistry which result in different vulnerabilities to psychiatric diseases such as schizophrenia or depression. Also, as these mushrooms may naturally contain many different types of compounds other than tryptamines, perhaps a high concentration of an unidentified compound in certain species or strains may be responsible. Because the abuse of these mushrooms is increasing in prevalence among young people, more research in this area is needed.

Treatment
There is no specific antidote to Psilocybe intoxication, although a clinical report of reversal of confirmed psilocybin intoxication with physostigmine is interesting and deserves further follow up study. Management of psilocybe intoxication consists mostly of emotional support and reassurance during panic episodes, and monitoring of vital signs. However, in cases of long-term adverse reactions, tranquilizers such as Valium and anti-psychotics such as Thorazine have been used. Also, in cases where the exact species of mushroom cannot be confirmed, gastric lavage or treatment with activated charcoal has been recommended.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mushrooms can range in the amount of the two ( Psilocybin) and (Psilocin) ingredients quite a bit. Some contain more other contain less and the ratios of each tend to either make the trip visual or just a happy fun. Growing conditions play a role as well. A very rich nutrient enviroment will produce nice healthy mushrooms, while a midiocure one will cause the mushrooms to be sickly. Also the addition of seratonin reactive supplements can increase a trip. St. Johns Wart can make a trip slightly more visual as well as MAOI's. So ttto answer your question, IMO yes, different strains or even the same strains can produce different trips.:)bluhoney

--------------------Information listed here is for entertainment only and is neither real or proven

This should be in General Questions as it has absolutley nothing to do with Cultivation.

--------------------You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Tryptaphanes break down in the body into 5-HTP by an enzyme reaction. 5-HTP crosses the blood brain barrier and is the precurser to seratonin. I am taking 5-HTP suppliments(Griffonia Symplicifolia ground seeds). I think I am going to add some of those seeds to my birdseed experiment. Anything so closely related to tryptophanes could end up boosting them.

I'm curious, luvdemshrooms? How many times have you seen this simple question answered happily by the forums?

"Yo, what kind of shrooms should I grow dude? ?? I want some that give me a really good trip that gives me lots of visuals and stuffs"

So... What's wrong with a more detailed question on this subject that is attempting to cut through all of the "these are my favs dude...you should grow them" bullshit? Some people would choose the type of mushrooms that they cultivate (hence...cultivation forum) by this criteria.

luvdemshrooms...are you a moderator now?
all you've ben posting lately is telling everybody where to take their thread, "this should be in general questions, this thread should be locked"... so on and so forth. last time i checked i didn't see an "M" by your name.

First, I've never said to lock a thread. Perhaps you should learn to read a little more closely.

Second, I can offer an opinion on any post I choose.

Third, if someone is stupid enough to post in the wrong forum, and the mods don't do as they should and move it to where it belongs, I shall speak out.

Fourth, if you don't like it, tough shit.

--------------------You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

You forgot five, if the poster had done a search in general questions or trip tips, the poster would have seen this topic comes up on those two forums about once a month and gets beaten into the ground every time.

I tend to agree with Xazia on this one. Your posts lately are pretty cocky.You just "spoke out" about Bluhoney dude..... A highly respected and informative cultivator and moderator..... and a sweetheart to say the least......I would`nt make a habit of dissin her in here... And besides all this crap........ What happened to all the peace and love I thought this drug was about? I wouldn`t want to trip around you Luvdem....you are to hostile.... so why don`t you go eat a handful and mellow out..... Do like the Beatles and "Let it be"

I have to agree with those who felt your post was out of place. You point this out alot (constantly actually) and usually you have a valid point, but in this case I think it is a valid cultivation question.

Choosing a strain is the first step in cultivation, and is probably as valid a question as that of which substrate to use.

As far as repeat questions, well probably just about every question that can be asked has been asked by now so why not just stop accepting new posts altogether and just turn the shroomery into an archive/museum.

Follow the strain isolation technique on Let's Grow Mushrooms, and then select sectors early which are brown in color. By the second or third transfer, you'll see stones developing, and this is only about 1 month after the original swipe of spores on agar.

Now, take each stone and move it to a new dish. Soon, the mycelium will grow out and you'll see fresh stones developing, and if they're good strains, the sclerotia is forming long before the mycelium reaches the edge of the plate. Pick strains which form four or five stones within two weeks and use these for your grain masters.
RR [/quote]

Numba, I?m totally unconcerned with whether you agree with me or not. Do you think I?m the only one who doesn?t like cross posting? Read bluhoneys own words?.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please read the following
Shroomery FAQ
Also take note of these guidlines as well:
1. No flaming(talking trash about one another)
2.No Double Posting
3.No off topic posts
4.If you need spore vendor advise please go hereSporevendor
5. No Spamming( posting for no other resason than to promote something)

6. ABSOLUTLY NO posts on where to buy or sell mushrooms.
7. Be nice to newbies, we were all there once
8. Have FUN

The above is a direct copy of her post. Please pay special attention to #3.

Dissing her? Nope, I think she?s a smart woman. But that doesn?t change the fact that not only doesn?t this post belong in this forum, but there?s far too much cross posting allowed here.

I'm not hostile to those who use care and thought in what they say and do. I have no patience for those who are too lazy to take the time to look for answers which can be easily found with just a little effort, and even less for those who post in the wrong forum. Cocky? Only to dopes and fools. There are many people who post here whom I respect greatly, including bluhoney. Does that mean that I shouldn't point out that this post is in the wrong place? Hardly.

As long as I don't slander or post false information about someone, my opinions are my own, and I'll post them as I see fit.

Peace and love? Don't make me puke.

And if you don't get why some of my posts have a bit of "bite" to them, then you're not the type of person I'd hang out with anyway. So we'd never have an oppourtunity to trip together anyway.

--------------------You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

I've noticed a lot of the experienced posters around here claim better quality trips from different types of mushrooms. I'm just wondering if this is a mental thing or if some of you really believe that EQ's (as an example) provide a better overall trip.. I suspect at least a small number of you are blowing hot air, but I don't doubt that there is a psychonaut/master cultivator somewhere out there who might actually be able to tell the difference.

So anyway... To be more specific. Are there really subtle differences between strains that aren't directly related to the _dosage of psilocybin_ ? Perhaps some of you are eating fresh mushrooms for the psilocin content and actually noticing a difference?

Also, if anyone knows of some literature that discusses the pharmacology of psilocin as opposed to psilocybin, I would be greatly appreciative of a nod in the right direction. I know I have read something about this before, but I haven't been able to find it recently.

In case you missed it, he asks about the trip and the pharmacology of psilocin, not growing.

--------------------You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers