What the OP asked her friends to do wasn't above and beyond - it was simple consideration.

I liked your perspective in your post. Here my perspective differs a bit though because if I understood correctly, the OP wanted her friends to essentially escort her, which to me is absolutely going above and beyond simple consideration. I do recognize that I tend to be more independent than most, however.

I think that since the train station was only 5 minutes away, it shouldn't have been too much of a burden for her friends (of course, I have no idea what direction the station was vs. where they needed to go). If this was the only issue the OP had that night, I probably wouldn't think too much of it but everything about that gathering seems really off.

Oh I understand why numbers are easier (unless they are alphabet streets) then named streets, but I would need to be reminded, it wouldn't just occur to me it was a harder area without thinking about it. Humans have a tendency to assume others think like they do - so you think its obvious it was difficult for you to navigate the area, but to them who know it well, they think "its so easy!"

Can you clarify was this "at night" or simply after sundown? If it was midnight, or 1am, that's a lot different IMO then 8 or 9 or even 10 pm - when most cities are still bustling with sober folks. Since you were meeting them for lunch, I was thinking you meant it was between 5 and 7 pm (dark but hardly "night") when you were trying to get home.

I live in NYC too -- but I think this is a bit like someone who is arriving in Penn Station, and expecting to meet someone near Herald Square, only to be told they're meeting at a restaurant at [address] in Astoria, Queens. I'd be more than a little annoyed, y'know?

ETA: I know one place in Queens where 31st st intersects with 31st Avenue and runs parallel to 31st road. The outer boroughs are confusing!

Oh I understand why numbers are easier (unless they are alphabet streets) then named streets, but I would need to be reminded, it wouldn't just occur to me it was a harder area without thinking about it. Humans have a tendency to assume others think like they do - so you think its obvious it was difficult for you to navigate the area, but to them who know it well, they think "its so easy!"

Can you clarify was this "at night" or simply after sundown? If it was midnight, or 1am, that's a lot different IMO then 8 or 9 or even 10 pm - when most cities are still bustling with sober folks. Since you were meeting them for lunch, I was thinking you meant it was between 5 and 7 pm (dark but hardly "night") when you were trying to get home.

I live in NYC too -- but I think this is a bit like someone who is arriving in Penn Station, and expecting to meet someone near Herald Square, only to be told they're meeting at a restaurant at [address] in Astoria, Queens. I'd be more than a little annoyed, y'know?

ETA: I know one place in Queens where 31st st intersects with 31st Avenue and runs parallel to 31st road. The outer boroughs are confusing!

I admit, I got used to taking NJ transit bus (yikes, one of those tunnel/bridge people!) to the Port Authority. I could find my way around confidently from there. However, now that I live in Central NJ, I have to take the train in to Penn Station. While it isn't that far away from TPA, I have to learn new ways of finding my way around the city. Add to that, I agree that if I went to PS and was told that the meeting place had been moved to Brooklyn, for example, I wouldn't be happy. A native might be able to roll with it. Me, not so much.

Oh I understand why numbers are easier (unless they are alphabet streets) then named streets, but I would need to be reminded, it wouldn't just occur to me it was a harder area without thinking about it. Humans have a tendency to assume others think like they do - so you think its obvious it was difficult for you to navigate the area, but to them who know it well, they think "its so easy!"

Can you clarify was this "at night" or simply after sundown? If it was midnight, or 1am, that's a lot different IMO then 8 or 9 or even 10 pm - when most cities are still bustling with sober folks. Since you were meeting them for lunch, I was thinking you meant it was between 5 and 7 pm (dark but hardly "night") when you were trying to get home.

I live in NYC too -- but I think this is a bit like someone who is arriving in Penn Station, and expecting to meet someone near Herald Square, only to be told they're meeting at a restaurant at [address] in Astoria, Queens. I'd be more than a little annoyed, y'know?

ETA: I know one place in Queens where 31st st intersects with 31st Avenue and runs parallel to 31st road. The outer boroughs are confusing!

I admit, I got used to taking NJ transit bus (yikes, one of those tunnel/bridge people!) to the Port Authority. I could find my way around confidently from there. However, now that I live in Central NJ, I have to take the train in to Penn Station. While it isn't that far away from TPA, I have to learn new ways of finding my way around the city. Add to that, I agree that if I went to PS and was told that the meeting place had been moved to Brooklyn, for example, I wouldn't be happy. A native might be able to roll with it. Me, not so much.

Well in both these examples I think the bigger argument/objection would be making someone travel an extra hour by themselves more then finding their way. I know my way around both Brooklyn & Queens pretty well (Queens native) and quite frankly if I came in from the suburbs (say Hoboken or LI) into Penn or PA and then went to a restaurant, and then was told go back to the train and by the way we're all 5 minutes ahead of you but won't wait and you have to go on the train by yourself for an hour, that to me would be a bigger rudeness - then its them rejecting my company vs just not helping me navigate. If it was the restaurant was originally in Times Square but moved down to the Village, 15-20 minutes via subway, I would be annoyed but not hurt or insulted.

Chiming in a bit late here, but I agree that your friends were quite callous in not sticking up more for you. It sounded like you were put in several uncomfortable positions that evening, thanks to their actions (or lack thereof).

It's good that (most of) your friends were apologetic. But if anything like this happens in future - eg, they change venues on you, at the last minute - I'd be inclined to simply go home, rather than go chasing all over town for them.

Yes, your friends were quite thoughtless. Although after reading it, you are probably lucky they didn't just leave you at the original restaurant!

Anyway, some advice I've learned over the years. Having a GPS is invaluable. Knowing how to get where you are going is great, but as you see, it helps to also be prepared for plan changes.

Also, never rely on another person to know where you are going. Don't think - Oh, I'm riding with so-and-so and they know the way! No, get your own directions just in case you get separated, etc, and wind up on your own.

I totally agree. Whenever my family and I are going some place in different cars, but trailing each other, I insist that each car have a copy of the directions in case a light catches one car or traffic interferes. It makes me feel better knowing that everyone will arrive at the destination eventually and won't get lost.

I think there is a difference between acceptable behaviour among people going out for a meal, and being a good friend. It might be "acceptable" or justifiable to expect a grown adult to meet you at a different place in a big city, but it's not a friendly thing to do.

But something else occurred to me while reading this thread. Much of the discussion has been focused on whether the other party was rude for expecting the OP to find the new restaurant on her own even though she was unfamiliar with the city. But does anyone else think it's a bit rude to just change which restaurant you're going to without consulting everyone in the party? I mean, even if the new restaurant was next door, unless there was a good reason (e.g. the first restaurant was full, they didn't serve food that someone else needed for medical/religious/ethical reasons), I would be a bit put out if my friends just decided without me that they were changing the agreed choice.

I think there is a difference between acceptable behaviour among people going out for a meal, and being a good friend. It might be "acceptable" or justifiable to expect a grown adult to meet you at a different place in a big city, but it's not a friendly thing to do.

But something else occurred to me while reading this thread. Much of the discussion has been focused on whether the other party was rude for expecting the OP to find the new restaurant on her own even though she was unfamiliar with the city. But does anyone else think it's a bit rude to just change which restaurant you're going to without consulting everyone in the party? I mean, even if the new restaurant was next door, unless there was a good reason (e.g. the first restaurant was full, they didn't serve food that someone else needed for medical/religious/ethical reasons), I would be a bit put out if my friends just decided without me that they were changing the agreed choice.

I think there is a difference between acceptable behaviour among people going out for a meal, and being a good friend. It might be "acceptable" or justifiable to expect a grown adult to meet you at a different place in a big city, but it's not a friendly thing to do.

But something else occurred to me while reading this thread. Much of the discussion has been focused on whether the other party was rude for expecting the OP to find the new restaurant on her own even though she was unfamiliar with the city. But does anyone else think it's a bit rude to just change which restaurant you're going to without consulting everyone in the party? I mean, even if the new restaurant was next door, unless there was a good reason (e.g. the first restaurant was full, they didn't serve food that someone else needed for medical/religious/ethical reasons), I would be a bit put out if my friends just decided without me that they were changing the agreed choice.

I did find that rude, yes.

I did too. If it had happened to me I'd have felt like the proverbial fifth wheel and that my presence clearly was either unimportant or even possibly unwanted!

I think there is a difference between acceptable behaviour among people going out for a meal, and being a good friend. It might be "acceptable" or justifiable to expect a grown adult to meet you at a different place in a big city, but it's not a friendly thing to do.

But something else occurred to me while reading this thread. Much of the discussion has been focused on whether the other party was rude for expecting the OP to find the new restaurant on her own even though she was unfamiliar with the city. But does anyone else think it's a bit rude to just change which restaurant you're going to without consulting everyone in the party? I mean, even if the new restaurant was next door, unless there was a good reason (e.g. the first restaurant was full, they didn't serve food that someone else needed for medical/religious/ethical reasons), I would be a bit put out if my friends just decided without me that they were changing the agreed choice.

I did find that rude, yes.

I did too. If it had happened to me I'd have felt like the proverbial fifth wheel and that my presence clearly was either unimportant or even possibly unwanted!

I agree, gramma. There are few things I hate more than the feeling that I am somewhere I am not wanted. That would have caused me to turn around and forget the whole thing.

In all this minor debate over what is or isn't reasonable to expect a grown woman to be able to do on her own, one thing struck me. Whether or not many people would be fine finding their way around an unfamiliar city, the OP had *told* her friends that she *wasn't* fine with it and actually asked for their help. Any friend worth their salt shouldn't refuse to help their friend out in that situation even if they privately don't see it as a big deal. The help requested was not unreasonable IMO.

Oh I understand why numbers are easier (unless they are alphabet streets) then named streets, but I would need to be reminded, it wouldn't just occur to me it was a harder area without thinking about it. Humans have a tendency to assume others think like they do - so you think its obvious it was difficult for you to navigate the area, but to them who know it well, they think "its so easy!"

Can you clarify was this "at night" or simply after sundown? If it was midnight, or 1am, that's a lot different IMO then 8 or 9 or even 10 pm - when most cities are still bustling with sober folks. Since you were meeting them for lunch, I was thinking you meant it was between 5 and 7 pm (dark but hardly "night") when you were trying to get home.

I live in NYC too -- but I think this is a bit like someone who is arriving in Penn Station, and expecting to meet someone near Herald Square, only to be told they're meeting at a restaurant at [address] in Astoria, Queens. I'd be more than a little annoyed, y'know?

ETA: I know one place in Queens where 31st st intersects with 31st Avenue and runs parallel to 31st road. The outer boroughs are confusing!

I grew up in Bklyn, lived there 25 years, and I don't know my way around Queens for nuthin. I know Astoria a little bit b/c I lived there a couple years but the streets are completely insane and I'd never expect anyone to be able to find their way around, w/ all the 25th Ave, St, Rd, Pl, Cir, and Drives. Yes, there are 6 types of streets that have the same numbers in the same area! Fuggeddaboutit, as we say.

If I was meeting someone in Astoria and they changed it to Long Island City, I'd not even bother. And those are pretty close by each other. RElative to like Flushing, for example.

In all this minor debate over what is or isn't reasonable to expect a grown woman to be able to do on her own, one thing struck me. Whether or not many people would be fine finding their way around an unfamiliar city, the OP had *told* her friends that she *wasn't* fine with it and actually asked for their help. Any friend worth their salt shouldn't refuse to help their friend out in that situation even if they privately don't see it as a big deal. The help requested was not unreasonable IMO.

Agreed. It's not like she was calling them while they were home and expecting them to come to the city and guide her around. They were right there with her when she asked for help.

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If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,Five things observe with care,To whom you speak,Of whom you speak,And how, and when, and where.Caroline Lake Ingalls