Re: Aged Ryes: One-time artifact of the '80s Bust?

Current Van Winkle rye is the tanked COK/Medley vatting and they are hoping BT has sufficiently aged rye for them once it runs out. I've never heard anyone definitively state what the currently tanked Saz 18 is, but my guess is that it's Bernehim. I'm sure BT is going to do the best they can to stretch that stuff out until their own distillate is ready.

From what I understand, there's no more aged Ritt left, the 21, 23, 25 were all from the same distillation presumably from the old HH distillery. Given that they only just started distilling their own rye a few years ago and can't seem to keep up with demand for Ritt 100, I can't imagine they have aged stuff around, bu who knows, maybe they've got some of the Brown Forman barrels hiding out in the warehosue.

KBD seems to be out of all rye except young LDI.

Old Potrero just released an 18 year old version of their Hotalings Rye. I have no idea how much of it they have left, but they may be the only source of current rye of that age until the BT stocks come of age.

Thanks y'all for the info. The aged-rye landscape is looking bleak eh :-(... I wonder if there are some long lost barrels of good old rye waiting to be discovered but this way of coming into old stock isn't really sustainable.

I also hope that some secret regime of ryes has been held back at Barton and are just waiting for the decision-makers @ Sazerac to figure out what to do with it. ;-)

Re: Aged Ryes: One-time artifact of the '80s Bust?

I hope the surge in the popularity of rye eventually leads to a few ultra aged ryes available... I don't hold out much hope though as most of the 18+ ryes have been accidents and "found" barrels

ditto.

That's always the thing I keep coming back to in my head, these noble creatures, in all probability, just should not have existed in the first place. They were "accidents" in all due respect, freakishly delicious accidents, but a accident nonetheless.

The other piece is, besides from what amounts to a very small group of hardcore fanatics of these, which I include myself in, while most of these rate very well, if you believe in that sort of thing, and taste even better than they rate, none of them, besides Saz and now the VW, ever really stood out as a must have product and was swooped up by the waiting public.

So while there is a market for them, is that market worth supplying for the small amount of sales? I think of the Ritt's, 21-25, and those were only like batches of 3,000, and they seem to still be readily out there and available. Granted the price points are high, but so it will be on anything new in that range released.

I only hope that someday, more will be out there.

B

"Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die."

Re: Aged Ryes: One-time artifact of the '80s Bust?

Here is an exchange I had on reddit with Harlan Wheatley:

Q1: Sazerac 18 and VWFRR are currently produced from old stocks, but I know you are producing fantastic young rye in the form of baby Saz and THH. Can you give us a ballpark as to when the rye fanatics among us can expect a Buffalo Trace-made 12+ year rye from you guys? Even if its 2015, as I expect, I really just need something to look forward to once the tanked stuff runs out.Q2: Could you comment on the relative importance of barrel selection, warehouse location, mashbill and entry proof to the final products you produce? We all tend to get wrapped up in mashbill, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about the other variables at work.Q3: Any chance of ever having a #2 mashbill in the BTAC?Thanks so much for doing this!Buffalo Trace:A1: Not long now, just a few more years to waitA2: These are the key markers in production. Barrel selection being probably the most influential on the final taste. You can take the same day’s production and age in a barrel side by side in the warehouse and get different results. This is why we put so much emphasis on the evaluation and tasting of our whiskies. From our experimentation we know that the mashbill is one of the more important influences on the flavor. However as above they are all very important. I have broken it down before basically like this: Mashbill – 12 %, Fermentation/Yeast – 12 %, Distillation – 20 % Aging Technique – 50%, Bottling/Processing – 5%. All being their relative % responsible for flavor.A3:You never know, but any plans like that are proprietary.

Not sure if A1 was a real and reassuring answer or just a blow-off, but I'm keeping my hopes up.

Re: Aged Ryes: One-time artifact of the '80s Bust?

Very old rye will be available again ... eventually ... the cyclical nature of whisky production will ensure this outcome.

Old stocks of anything exist after a period of low demand during which production was high (in response to prior high demand). In response to the lower demand distillers use said old stocks to beef up the quality. As relative quality rises enthusiasts cause demand to spike again causing shortages. In response to the shortages distillers beef up production but are forced to use younger stocks to fill contemporary demand - quality falls while prices rise - having the expected results of lowering demand once again. Repeat ... the only question is the timing and duration of the cycle.

It is inevitable that as prices continue to rise - and tastes shift to something else - demand for rye will eventually fizzle. By the time current (relatively) high production of rye comes of age demand will then be lower than it is today and distillers can't sell all of it. As a result it will sit in the warehouses waiting for demand to come back.

Re: Aged Ryes: One-time artifact of the '80s Bust?

Then hope the Canadian distillers continue to sell to American NDP's, and/or they come to their senses* and start bottling their so called "flavouring whiskies" uncut/unfiltered.

* so far they appear to be living under a rock and haven't noticed demand from whisky geeks for high abv, un-chilfiltered, natural colour, single barrel/small batch offerings being bottled by the Scotch and American producers.