"...the local Buddhist monk has gone from being a moral authority, teacher and community leader fulfilling important spiritual and secular roles to someone whose job is often limited to presiding over periodic ceremonies."

“Consumerism is now the Thai religion,” said Phra Paisan Visalo, one of the country’s most respected monks. “In the past, people went to temple on every holy day. Now, they go to shopping malls.”

It is largely true as reported in the article. Many monasteries especially in the North of Thailand do not have a resident monk and sometimes have to invite monks just for the Rains Retreat from another province.

There are different ways that the current crisis can be solved, as proposed by Ven. Anil Sakya ("fast-food Buddhism") or Ven. Paisan Visalo ("return to nature and simplicity").

++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

NY Times wrote:Scandals surrounding some monks have contributed to the decline. Social media has helped spread videos of monks partying in monasteries, imbibing alcohol, watching pornographic videos and cavorting with women and men, all forbidden activities. There have also been controversies involving allegations of embezzlement of donations at temples.

My hope would be that although the number of monks might be declining, the quality would be better. I think it would be better to have a small number of very good monks who practice, teach, have good sila, provide a good example; rather than large numbers but of poor quality.

Maybe its time for a reform movement in Thailand similar to the mass meditation movement that arose out of Burma following British occupation.

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

Thanks. I thought there was something familiar about that article. I'll merge them.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Like any social dynamic this one is more nuanced than simple materialism as culprit. Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.

Who are you?’ said the Caterpillar.

Alice replied rather shyly, ‘I—I hardly know, sir, just at present—at least I knew who I was when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.’”

Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.

Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.

Rubbish...

It might be rubbish, even balderdash, but I think AB's comment deserves a bit more respect and maybe a bit more of a comment than that, and I say that because you probably have better first hand insight into some of these things than most of us here, and it would be to our benifit if you would be kind enough to share your take on this, if you please.

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++++++++++++++++This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

There is freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning. If there were not this freedom from birth, freedom from becoming, freedom from making, freedom from conditioning, then escape from that which is birth, becoming, making, conditioning, would not be known here. -- Ud 80

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

Poor choice of words, I know...came back to change it and got bit...sorry...

'Tis true, while many young Thais are discouraged, there are myriad reasons why...superficial piety of monks isn't one of them...and monks most definitely do not 'live as they do'...

And what to say of Sangha scandals that surface in the news?...A. They're (monks) human, and B. They (monks) number in the hundreds of thousands... comparatively (with other 'religions') speaking, the number, and severity of offenses, pales...

Many younger Thais are discouraged with the superficial piety of monks who outside of ritual duties live just as they do … what to say of the saṅgha scandals that surface in the news from time to time.

Rubbish...

Not sure what the context is for this reply. Although I suppose I can understand that the Thai religious, like mainstream Christians in the West, would find a more dignified fault for religious apathy to be found in 'consumerism' than in shortcomings of their religious institutions.

appicchato wrote:Tis true, while many young Thais are discouraged, there are myriad reasons why...superficial piety of monks isn't one of them...and monks most definitely do not 'live as they do'...

I can only go by the candid remarks I hear, and from what I experience. Although this is by no means equivalent to a proper study of the mater, neither was the article which I think glosses the issue.

appicchato wrote:And what to say of Sangha scandals that surface in the news?...A. They're (monks) human, and B. They (monks) number in the hundreds of thousands... comparatively (with other 'religions') speaking, the number, and severity of offenses, pales...

There are good monks. And there are problems, some significant. When these are mishandled or covered-up, an institution that once prided itself on discipline looses credibility. I have lived in wats and vihāras East & West where gross misdeeds and corruption has been covered up. I know this is my opinion, but it isn’t just my opinion.

Who are you?’ said the Caterpillar.

Alice replied rather shyly, ‘I—I hardly know, sir, just at present—at least I knew who I was when I got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.’”

IMHO Thai society, especially urban society has changed massively over the past 30 years. People have become more affluent and have obtained chattels and technology that wasn't dreamed about by their parents.

People are also exposed to often the worst aspects of Western culture through cinema (movies) TV and the all too seedy tourists who can arrive in some areas here. They emulate this behaviour.

Two generations back there were fewer schools children were sometimes taught by monks how were educated and rightly respected by all. Now some people become monks if they cannot find a job.

Religion has severe problems as a result. I feel some temples are blatantly commercial, such as Dhamma Kaya.

Young monks want the use of technology, such as smart phones which their friends have. You can see them sending IMs to their friends outside their temples. Some have WiFi.

Thais love Temples to look big and colourful, the bigger, more golden statues the better. Personally I would rather give money for sanitation or education.

Forest Temples still maintain simple Buddhist teaching and practices, but I generally avoid urban temples because of the commercial aspects.

People are slowly loosing respect for monks who are seen behaving badly: smoking in Temples, asking for money etc plus the all too common scandals). Unfortunately as the urban monasteries seem to be the worst, they are seen the most. There are real gems, but rotten apples too.

Many people have little interest in or education about religion, they are more interested in ghosts and superstition, and this is regrettably reflected in many temples.

Thais need to decide how to keep temples relevant to society and how they can evolve with society, but at the moment, this mammoth task just doesn't seem to be happening.

Forgive me for weighing in here but I'm compelled to take issue...as someone who's been here (Thailand) the last thirty-five, continuously...I haven't see any 'massive' changes...the instruments that catch, or occupy, our attention may have changed, but basically the mindset is pretty much what it's always been...'always' meaning relatively modern times...there is, has been, and always will be, the good, the bad, and the ugly...there's been no seismic shifts in human nature in any urban society, that I can think of...enlighten me if I'm wrong...we are just being (more or less, through the advent of the internet) exposed to more of what's going on in our ever shrinking planet...that's not to say that there will not be 'massive' changes in the near future, as anyone with even a little foresight can see that we, as a race, can actually see our own demise not that far down the pike, while not a lick is being done to address the ills that are creating that demise...

For all but a rarified few, we're all destined to live our lives in our own individual universes, with little to no influence on anyone, or anything except maybe, and not certainly, our families and close circle of friends...best, if I were asked, to concentrate solving the ills there (between our ears) instead of opining the ills of our present day (worldly) circumstances...which is circling the drain...but I digress...

appicchato wrote:Forgive me for weighing in here but I'm compelled to take issue...as someone who's been here (Thailand) the last thirty-five, continuously...I haven't see any 'massive' changes...Be well...

Dear Appicchato,

I think we will have to agree to differ, maybe we have had quite different experiences.

I teach maths to teenagers and their attitudes and aspirations have completely evolved from my wife's generation, twenty or so years before them.

My father in law was taught by monks, there was no school, TV etc, he learned manners and discipline, so my wife got a quite strict upbringing. I can't say that for many of the kids I teach. It's society evolving.

Problems show in many other ways, for example diet has changed, my wife's generation didn't have the quantity or variety of junk foods that now proliferate. Consider the increases obesity, dental caries and diabetes due to these changes. Some people send their children away to study at 11. Kids live in their own accommodation or in dormitories. Without parents they have problems with drugs etc which. These are recent problems.

We live in a fairly outlying province and problems become more marked nearer to the major urban areas, especially Bkk.

I'd have to agree with Graham. I recently spent three months in Thailand along with my principal student, who is married to a Thai woman and speaks Thai. We spent most of our visit in Chiangmai.

We are not ordained but wear white and beads, and follow precepts and live like monks. Yet, just because we were Westerners, many people including monks assumed that we were there for sex tourism. Their attitude towards us was dismissive or worse. Meanwhile, they themselves were living lives of unmitigated materialism. We saw monks with smartphones shopping at the mall and playing video games. Frankly we were appalled at their hypocrisy.

Our intention in visiting Thailand was to offer fellowships to our world-class Spiritual Leadership course. But mainly because we could not penetrate this attitude problem, we could not find a single qualified person even among the monks. Even the groups supposedly based on teachers of integrity, like Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, we found to be rife with politics and petty status games. Ultimately we decided to withdraw our offer and move on to greener pastures.