While I was taught the "do not end the sentence with a preposition", I have rethought this (rule?). I find that trying to end the sentence with some other word makes composition awkward.I do think it important to use the proper pronoun if referring to someone. That sometimes lead to using whom instead of who. But even that is not iron-cladI was thinking about Spanish. The sentence structure is so arranged that it causes me pain when trying to learn the language.English is hard enough for non speakers to learn. We should not make it harder. mamawsandy

mamawsandy wrote: . . . I was thinking about Spanish. The sentence structure is so arranged that it causes me pain when trying to learn the language.English is hard enough for non speakers to learn. We should not make it harder. mamawsandy

I haven't even gotten close to Spanish grammar yet. I'm still struggling with trilling the R's, Señorrrrrra! That part of my Scots-Irish ancestry didn't come through.

Regards//Larry

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -- Attributed to Richard Henry Lee

Stargzer wrote:I haven't even gotten close to Spanish grammar yet. I'm still struggling with trilling the R's, Señorrrrrra! That part of my Scots-Irish ancestry didn't come through.

Don't give up, gzer! I could not reproduce this sound either, although my parents said I could as a child. But as a student who wanted to pass the course with some dignity? No way, Jose. Nor could I pronounce some of the few words I knew from either side of the family tree...

One instructor asked an exchange student, "¿hay colombionos que no puedan <<rrr>>?" The student gave me the look [reserved for pitiful Americans who have a speech impediment in every known language on the planet except English!] and sadly agreed that there were a few. Secretly, I felt better whenever he referred to a piece or sheet of paper. We all sound funny to someone, and if it brightens up their dreary days, so much the better!

Then one day--out of the blue--podría <<rrr>>. ¡Errrrrrrrra un milagrrrrrrrrro! If you want to know the secret, gzer--a technique which no self-respecting language teacher would suggest--ask and it shall be revealed to you. I've shared it with other <<rrr>>-impaired norteamericanos and, so far, it works...

-gailrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Last edited by gailr on Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

tcward wrote:The only real, honest benefit in seeking to avoid ending sentences (or phrases) with prepositions is that it forces us as writers to consider others ways of expressing our thoughts. Hopefully it gives us consistent practice in the craft, and, if we're good enough at it, the practice helps us hone that skill of self-expression so that, in our old age, our minds have had enough exercise that they maintain their usefulness.

-Tim

I agree with Tim. Most of the time it just makes us look for a better way to say what we want to say. I think it's a good rule that's more honored in the breach than in the observance. There are many instances where the preposition has actually become an adverbial particle, and no longer needs to be followed by a phrase. Two examples that come to mind are "sneered at" and "heard of."

By the way, am I the only old foggie left in the world who objects to "hopefully" as used above?

WHY SHOULD WE BOTHER TO HAVE RULES OF GRAMMAR, IF ONLY TO DISREGARD THEM? TRUE, WE ARE PROBABLY ALL GUILTY OF THIS ABUSE BUT IT IS IN EVERYDAY USE THAT MANY "LEARN" TO MISUSE PREPOSITIONS...

"GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT LANGUAGE" HAS NEVER BEEN A NATURAL IN ANY CLASS IN WHICH I HAVE BEEN. I CRINGE WHENEVER I HEAR ENGLISH TORTURED IN TV COMMERCIALS....WHERE SO MANY OF OUR YOUNGER GENERATION "THINK THEY ARE LEARNING TO SPEAK PROPERLY BY EXAMPLE" - OMG ! LIKE A SCRATCHING FINGERNAIL ON A CLASSROOM CHALKBOARD. OUCH !

SPEAKING CORRECTLY ONLY SEEMS AWKWARD WHEN WE HAVE TO UNLEARN IMPROPER USAGE. ONCE WE LEARN AND IT IS MORE AUTOMATIC IS MAKES ENGLISH MORE BEAUTIFUL...WHICH WOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND TOO, IF SLANG WOULDNT BECOME ACCEPTED AN THE NORM....

BD, SORRY YOU PERSONALLY OBJECT TO MY USE OF ALL CAPITALS, HOWEVER I DO SO BECAUSE I AM HANDICAPPED WITH SEVERAL DISABILITIES: MY VISION IS LESS THAN AS GOOD AS IT ONCE WAS AND THE CAPITALS MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME TO SEE WHAT I AM WRITING.
DO YOU HAVE A NEED TO KNOW THE REST OF MY DISABILITIES? (UNLIKE USUAL IM TEXT FOR ME THIS IS not INTENDED THE SAME AS YELLING) FUTURE POSTING MIGHT ALSO NOTE MULPTILE TYPO's OR SPELLING ERRORS.
APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE IF THIS CONTINUES TO ANNOY YOU, BUT THIS IS ONE ON MY ADJUSTMENTS THAT HELPS ME FUNCTION...MY EMPHASIS 'WORDS' TEND TO GET PLACED IN "lower" CASE LETTERS
I ALSO NOTE THAT THE CAPITOLS WAS THE ONLY COMMENT YOU HAD ABOUT MY POSTING- SHAME. WAS HOPEFUL FOR REAL FEEDBACK AS I AM NEW. THANKS FOR THE WELCOME.
KAREN/ REYNA
P.S. [FYI DUE TO MY BRAININJURY IT HAS TAKEN ME EIGHT TIMES TO WRITE THIS TO REPLY TO YOU, I THOUGHT 10 1/2 YEARS AFTER A CAR ACCIDENT I WAS READY TO JOIN THE LAND OF THE LIVING, MAYBE I WAS WRONG]

EZ2TALK wrote:SPEAKING CORRECTLY ONLY SEEMS AWKWARD WHEN WE HAVE TO UNLEARN IMPROPER USAGE. ONCE WE LEARN AND IT IS MORE AUTOMATIC IS MAKES ENGLISH MORE BEAUTIFUL...

If this view of yours holds true for the written language, could you consider posting with more minuscules? I understand you would like to write your posts in ways as befit your needs and conditions and I am in no position to tell what is best for you. I have, however, hard time reading anything with more than 5 consecutive majuscules.

For instance, you can use a software called TextPad before you make a post here. For download click here.

After installing the software you write something like:
mOSQUITOS ARE NOT USED TO FIRE.

Then select what you have just written and use Invert Case option by following the mene bar as follows:
Edit > Change Case > Invert Case.

And voila, you get;
Mosquitos are not used to fire.

TextPad has spell checker (Tools > Spelling) too. A small but mighty software in my opinion.