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Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Older Child without a weapon would likely be less threatening then an 8 y/o with a knife in my mind.

A large 8 y/o with a very sharp edged stick that is enraged would be more threatening to me than a squaney 15 year old with a knife that's more nervous than anything else

You keep talking in absolutes while acting like you're some big macho genius when it comes to these types of situations, which just makes me think that honestly your opinion on this is roughly jack and **** compartive to the cops at the scene. The fact you are ignorantly suggesting age alone makes someone with a potentially dangerous weapon non-threatening and that you'd just need to "Grab his arm and spank his bottom" to solve the issue speaks volumes.

If an 8 y/o had an M-60 machine gun, then yes he would be a very serious threat, but this kid had a piece of wood trim that he broke off the wall. Gimme a break! What's he going to do, cause an infection with it? Kinda like Clark Griswald taking over Wally World with a BB-gun.

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by apdst

But, didn't attempt to defuse the situation, which would have been the most effective defense of the other kids. Right?

How do you know that? The first line of the second story is that the teacher stated no one was able to calm the 8 y/o, which definitely suggests SOME attempt was made to defuse the situation early on. The events apparently started earlier in the day and escalated prior to trying to get the students away. Why is it somehow more reasonable to suggest that during that entire time they just ignored the situtation up until the point that they removed the students and somehow not worth considering that they perhaps DID try to defuse the situation during that time and failed at it?

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by apdst

Yeah, grab his arm and spank his little ass.

a) if the cop is able to grab his arm without getting cut himself, then he also takes the chance of hurting the 8 year old, possibly breaking that arm or the 8 yo fighting him until one or both of them get hurt

possible broken arm, plus possible cut to LEO, not to mention likely bruising to both and possibly lacerations to them and others vs. watering, painful burning to eyes that last maybe half a day (depending on what concentration their pepper spray is) for the young boy with very little chance of any harm to others and unlikely to do lasting harm to him

I'd go with the pepper spray and I'm pretty sure that my husband, who carries pepper spray daily at work (sure he has some on him atm, in fact), would agree.

b) depending on the state, spanking the child is a form of child abuse

The mother doing what you suggested long before this incident would have been wonderful, but unfortunately we must base the decision on what happened in the present situation not what should have been done during his previous 7 years to prevent this from happening. This was the decision of the teacher (who is limited by laws of what she can do, including, in some states, not even being legally allowed to yell or touch the student in a disciplinary manner and who must ensure that the other students are not harmed by the one student) and the decision of the LEOs who came to the scene. I have seen nothing wrong with the decision that they made. It is the one likely to result in the least amount of harm to everyone involved.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

How do you know that? The first line of the second story is that the teacher stated no one was able to calm the 8 y/o, which definitely suggests SOME attempt was made to defuse the situation early on. The events apparently started earlier in the day and escalated prior to trying to get the students away. Why is it somehow more reasonable to suggest that during that entire time they just ignored the situtation up until the point that they removed the students and somehow not worth considering that they perhaps DID try to defuse the situation during that time and failed at it?

That certainly doesn't suggest that they made an asserted attempt, either.

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by apdst

I have quit a bit of training, actually. But, my question is: what dangerous weapon did this kid possess?

According to the officers on scene a piece of wood with a knife like point. Again, why should I take your word over that of the officers. I know for a fact you can puncture skin and do damage with wood (on a different school related note, a child recently during a prank had a pencil shoved 2 inches into his body). The officers felt that the tip of the wood was legitimate enough as a weapon. So far all you have going against that is "Well, its just a kid".

And excuse me if I severely doubt either your training, or severely disregard it due to your obvious bravado and chest thumping, as I can't think of a single instance of an individual dealing with an knife-life weapon suggesting that the people involved treat it as essentially a ridiculous and hollow threat akin to your claim of just "grab his arm and spank his bottom".

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by roguenuke

a) if the cop is able to grab his arm without getting cut himself, then he also takes the chance of hurting the 8 year old, possibly breaking that arm or the 8 yo fighting him until one or both of them get hurt

possible broken arm, plus possible cut to LEO, not to mention likely bruising to both and possibly lacerations to them and others vs. watering, painful burning to eyes that last maybe half a day (depending on what concentration their pepper spray is) for the young boy with very little chance of any harm to others and unlikely to do lasting harm to him

I'd go with the pepper spray and I'm pretty sure that my husband, who carries pepper spray daily at work (sure he has some on him atm, in fact), would agree.

b) depending on the state, spanking the child is a form of child abuse

The mother doing what you suggested long before this incident would have been wonderful, but unfortunately we must base the decision on what happened in the present situation not what should have been done during his previous 7 years to prevent this from happening. This was the decision of the teacher (who is limited by laws of what she can do, including, in some states, not even being legally allowed to yell or touch the student in a disciplinary manner and who must ensure that the other students are not harmed by the one student) and the decision of the LEOs who came to the scene. I have seen nothing wrong with the decision that they made. It is the one likely to result in the least amount of harm to everyone involved.

Any cop that can't defend himself from a piece of wooden wall trim, in the hands of an 8 y/o probably shouldn't be a cop and carrying a firearm.

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by apdst

That certainly doesn't suggest that they made an asserted attempt, either.

Wait, so them stating that no one was ABLE to do it suggests that no one ATTEMPTED to do it?

Or are you now changing your goal posts to no one trying to defuse the situation to no one trying to defuse the situation up to the standards of apdst, supreme decider of all things involving children?

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

According to the officers on scene a piece of wood with a knife like point. Again, why should I take your word over that of the officers. I know for a fact you can puncture skin and do damage with wood (on a different school related note, a child recently during a prank had a pencil shoved 2 inches into his body). The officers felt that the tip of the wood was legitimate enough as a weapon. So far all you have going against that is "Well, its just a kid".

And excuse me if I severely doubt either your training, or severely disregard it due to your obvious bravado and chest thumping, as I can't think of a single instance of an individual dealing with an knife-life weapon suggesting that the people involved treat it as essentially a ridiculous and hollow threat akin to your claim of just "grab his arm and spank his bottom".

Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

Originally Posted by apdst

Any cop that can't defend himself from a piece of wooden wall trim, in the hands of an 8 y/o probably shouldn't be a cop and carrying a firearm.

There's a significantly difference between "defending oneself" from an enraged 8 y/o with a knife-like pointed object and significant defend themselves with the utmost and unquestionable confidence that no harm will come to the child or the officer for it.