Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by AZChristian;4055120;

Having not been in the workroom, none of us can be 100% sure of what's actually happening. However . . .

If I'm in an environment (and I have been) where a colleague is making crude sexually offensive comments and uses language that is inappropriate in a public area, my complaints about that person are about the comments and language.

I worked in a tech support area where we were confined to our workstations by the nature of what we did. The man behind me, after each phone call, would declare out loud for all to hear, "What a f*****g loser!" (referring to his customers). Between calls he would tell jokes and make extremely inappropriate comments about any woman who walked by. (He, by the way, was 300+ pounds and not terribly familiar with the basic concepts of hygiene. But all these women supposedly wanted him and would be privileged if he were willing to . . . ) Even with all that, the guy knew tech support, and was far more skilled than I in that area.

But when it got to be too much to listen to him for 40 hours a week and I decided to speak with the manager about it, I did not go in there and say, "Alec doesn't know anything about tech support." I said that he was using language and sexual references that were against company policy and that it was creating a hostile work environment.

So how come none of the designers are complaining about Michael C's other reported behaviors? When he walks into the room after a win, why isn't anyone saying, "Your design was okay, but it's hard for us to be happy for you because we can't get past your habits of sexual innuendos and foul language." They're just saying, "He doesn't know about design, construction, etc." The judges - all experts in their field - don't have a problem with his technical skills.

I just don't get it. Why not address the actual problem - if there is one.

We can't be sure if no one has complained about his actions during worktime. And none of the other designers have really criticized his personality in the show or anybody else getting "personal" in the show (except maybe April calling Gretchen Hitler). Most of the criticism hurled towards him (told directly at him, during testimonials, or designer to designer) are based on his skills and taste (basically, his work). So I don't get why some people would hate on Gretchen for being vocal (mostly during confessionals) about other people's work (most of us do and we're not even in the competition, we're merely observers) when she is on the show and is encouraged to give her opinions during testimonials. Without these testimonials the technical crew wouldn't have much of a show to begin with. And I agree with Gretchen that Tim should have criticized her work at hand not judge her character because he does not know her personally and to call her out and humiliate her is not gauche. What we basically see is an edited version of the whole shebang. 30 added minutes to the show does not guarantee us getting a better look at these people's characters. Even Christopher said in defense of Gretchen that she is not a mean person. And Valerie was not really saying anything bad about Gretchen when she was in the other room with Ivy. Yet it was assumed she was saying negative things about her because of a snippet that the technical crew showed.

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by Endit;4055130;

And it just makes NO sense for Michael C to spread rurmors either. Do you think people like being outcast or drama? If anybody, Michael C doesn't like it, so why would he do that? He wouldn't. We only saw Ivy say she heard the rumor too, but I'm betting she heard/saw something totally innocent and misinterpreted in 100 different ways.

He said during previews for the next show that he was getting even for throwing him under the bus. And a lot of other designers have said that Michael C. has 2 personalities because he wants his own reality show. He has another agenda, basically, while the others joined to either win or at least make it to Lincoln Center. And the "rumour" told to Ivy by some of the guests, Valerie had said she heard from the other guests, too.

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

I found Peach's interview very interesting not only because of the comments about Michael C but that there were other villains and that they were setting themselves up as villains through their own behavior (Gretchen and Ivy??).

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by Endit;4055130;

And Gretchen and her little gaggle of "I'm so greats" are getting schooled by Michael C and it's karma. Karma for the way they are acting. And even if he wasn't a good designer or couldn't sew, he has a good attitude and never displays the "I deserve it" attitude they have towards winning or being in the top. When he wins, he's super excited and totally shocked. If they were to win, I could look into their internal monologues and find something self serving and ugly. It reminds me of when Tiger Woods burst onto the scene. Golf had always been a kind of old, rich, white guy sport, and in comes this young, black guy who just annihilated everybody in sight. I bet they acted the same way.

Project Runway is a competition, just like sports. People who join competitions, basically, join because they believe they have what it takes to win. Why join if you do not believe in yourself? When you are in a team sport, is your internal monologue "oh, maybe this is the day I win". No, you psyche up yourself and size up your competition. To some of these people, it's their big break, hitting the "big time". So they are under a lot of pressure and duress, especially since these challenges happen back-to-back. They lack sleep and forgo eating (like Ivy) because they can feel it. Not that I support the bad attitudes but these are all people reacting to stress. Aren't we all guilty of acting similarly when we are under similar situations? If no, then one has to right to criticize, then. It is just a reality show that shows real people competing for their dream.

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

BUT... if Michael C really was such a hard-ass or wanted to be seen as such... why all those tears? Why the timid reactions on the runway and after the runway?

I'm talking timid, not sucking up. I haven't seen Michael suck up to the judges, not in any shape or way that is out of place, or any different from the rest of the group. Casanova described him as humble.

If Michael C really is a monster, they've managed to hide it extremely well, but I don't get why. Because if Michael C is so much worse than Wretchen, it would make a lot more sense to make it a season with one really obvious villain, instead of making it a season with every other designer being a villain. You want the audience to root for your participants, not hate the majority of the group. As it stands now you have an extremely unlikeable cast of characters who keep picking on a single member of the group, that alienates me as a viewer because I don't want to see any of these people win. As a viewer I want to see someone who deserves to win.

I get that you need drama, but it strikes me as really strange that they're doing it this way.

And not only that, but Tim Gunn chimed in and confirmed that Wretchen was the queen bee of the bullying and that everybody threw Michael C under the buss.

I like Peach, but if she wants to start a discussion on the editing... let's review her own case. We never saw her stick up for Michael C, or beat him down. The camera cut away just in time when she was having a conversation with April where she was talking about Michael C having no talent. Did she get a "neutral" edit, which in this case means a favorable edit?

If Michael C really is that obnoxious it would have been too tempting an opportunity for the producers to have this shine through. As it stands now there's no solid evidence. And with the case being as it is, everything that designers tell us through interviews after the fact will seem like them continuing their bullying behaviour. I want to take her word for it, but at the same time I need to keep in mind that this is the first, and right now the only sign, that Michael is somehow responsible for how the others are treating him.

The season's just begun. Give it more time. Let's see how it all unravels (or, at least, how Lifetime wants us to).

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by watts;4055194;

He said during previews for the next show that he was getting even for throwing him under the bus. And a lot of other designers have said that Michael C. has 2 personalities because he wants his own reality show. He has another agenda.

I have not seen any one else's interview in which they commented on MC's issue. The first I read was the quote from Peach. Do you have other things we can read?

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by ibot2much;4055204;

I have not seen any one else's interview in which they commented on MC's issue. The first I read was the quote from Peach. Do you have other things we can read?

Peach talked about the split personality issue as explanation to AJ calling Michael a d-bag. So, it is safe to assume AJ thinks so, too, as that was Peach's answer. And is Peach the personality to lie in an interview? No. I bet the next designers to be auf'ed would concur.

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by watts;4055206;

Peach talked about the split personality issue as explanation to AJ calling Michael a d-bag. So, it is safe to assume AJ thinks so, too, as that was Peach's answer. And is Peach the personality to lie in an interview? No. I bet the next designers to be auf'ed would concur.

I thought you may have had access to other quotes as we got from Peach. As you said, the continuing saga/editing should be interesting.

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Originally Posted by AZChristian;4055129;

That is, indeed, a possibility. And if I find out that the producers are being that manipulative towards the audience, it will probably be my last season of PR. I don't like being misled - either by contestants or production decisions. I prefer to make up my own mind, based on full and correct information.

I'm with you - I'd much rather see what's going on than an edited storyline that doesn't reflect reality. That's why I no longer watch The Bachelor. (There are other reasons to watch The Bachelor, but not if you want to see two people falling in love.)

For future episodes of PR, I'll be focusing more on the designs and much less on the interpersonal interactions.

Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

Truth be told, I am quite sure that all we get are edited versions of all the reality shows. They edit out and splice and cut. It's just the way it is. Reality TV has never truly been reality, and has become even less about reality as it has morphed over the seasons. I'm quite sure that there is more "manipulation" involved than we'd ever really want to believe. We have just become more intune to the fact that editing is majorly involved and they have chosen more and more contestants to be contraversial.