First look at new SRM PC8 head unit with WiFi/GPS/ANT+ & Bluetooth

Updated August 30th, 7:58PM with clarifications/additions from SRM, see note at end for summary of changes.

Today SRM unwrapped their PC8 head unit, which is the successor to their existing PC7 head unit that’s on the market today. The PC8 is without question the biggest technological jump we’ve seen from SRM, packing in every communications chip type that’s on the market today into a single device: GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth 4.0, accelerometers, and ANT+.

To start off with a visual refresher, here’s a quick before and after comparing the PC7 to the PC8:

The most significant changes come in the form of technical upgrades to the internal guts, namely the inclusion of a number of new communication types:

– ANT+ for connection to ANT+ speed/cadence sensors, ANT+ power meters [updated], heart rate straps, and weight scales – Bluetooth Smart for connecting to smartphones/tablets (not planned to connect to Bluetooth sensors) [Update: Here’s a ton more detail on how that works] – WiFi for download/upload of data, configuration of the data screens/pages

In playing with the unit, the display is as high-contrast and sharp as it appears below. The touch sensitive buttons though did take a bit of getting used to compared to the PC7. You almost need to apply the mantra that ‘less is more’ when touching them.

You’ll notice above that Bluetooth Smart is included. Their plan by launch is to develop apps across “a number of platforms” (i.e. Android, iOS, etc…) to allow downloading of the workouts from the device to your mobile device. Further, they plan to make use of the WiFi to allow configuration of the data fields of your unit. I pressed for more information on how that works (i.e. desktop app, cloud service, etc…) – but the details are still being worked out.

The unit supports multiple bike profiles, but most importantly now – unique sensor sets per each bike profile.

On the GPS front the unit incorporates both recording of GPS tracklogs, as well as following of GPS/GPX breadcrumb trail style routes (similar to an Edge 500). It won’t do turn-by-turn navigation like an Edge 800/810. There is also no planned ‘workout’ type functionality (i.e. setting specific workout levels to target).

Finally, the unit will feature a re-chargeable battery system. It uses the same connector as their upcoming rechargeable battery SRM power meters, thus the cable can be swapped back and forth between the two. The head unit (PC8) will get 30 hours of battery life with GPS on, and 100 hours with GPS off. Meanwhile, the hub will get 100 hours of battery life before requiring a recharge. The rechargeable SRM hub will be certified to 1,000 recharges (recharge cycles).

The PC8 will be offered in both a plastic casing and an aluminum casing. The pricing will remain the same as it is today (550€/750€) for each head unit.

I, along with another journalist that was interviewing a different SRM representative at the time, enquired about SRM’s thoughts on pricing and the greater power meter market at large (SRM is the most expensive on the market). Specifically that given all the new entrants at lower prices (i.e. everything from Stages to Garmin Vector), as well as established players (PowerTap/Quarq), if SRM was considering lowering their prices to be more competitive – either with prices at the power meter level or the head unit level. The answers we both got separately were a resounding, unequivocal…no.

SRM’s Sebastian Raebiger explained to me: “We want to be a high end product, with no product for the masses.” He went on to further explain that their current production process of producing the unit wholly within Germany was the primary reason for the higher price – as well as the plans to keep it at that price point.

Both of us also further pressed for comment on SRM looking at other measurement points (i.e. pedals), or doing left/right power. SRM representatives believe there’s no value today in measuring power elsewhere, nor in providing left/right measurement. They did concede recovery from injury was a potential use case for left/right power measurement, but don’t see any plans to add it. [Note: See updated comment at conclusion for further thoughts from SRM on this point.]

Finally, the PC8’s availability is being targeted at summer May of 2014 (next year). Given the sensors available within the unit, it’ll be interesting to see how SRM is able to develop the software and services around that suite (specifically WiFi and Bluetooth Smart) to fully take advantage of the potential there around mobile device and cloud/web connectivity. Thanks for reading!

Updated Note Aug 30th: SRM’s Director of Sales and Marketing Mike Hall reached out to me today to provide some clarifications and additions to the features and functionality that were originally communicated to me during my talks with three different SRM reps at Eurobike. These include the following updated:

1) The PC8 will indeed allow for all ANT+ power meters. 2) SRM will be implementing left/right balance metrics, including Torque Effectiveness and Pedal Smoothness 3) As previously noted, the Bluetooth 4.0 will be utilized for data transfers, and not sensors (including BLE HR straps) 4) The PC8 will allow workouts to be added to it and executed on it 5) The PC8 will have customizable training zones by power/HR/Critical Power/FTP 6) The PC8 will include the TrainingPeaks metrics of Normalized Power (NP), Training Stress Score (TSS), and Intensity Factor (IF) 7) They are targeting May 2014, as opposed to “Summer 2014” as previously communicated

I did want to include one additional note from Mike, which I’ve included in full below:

“The comment from Sebastian Raebiger about SRM seeing no value in left/right pedal, primarily comes from the small amount of peer reviewed research being done on training prescription (based on single leg workouts to improve ‘balance’ or performance). SRM has been working on a torque analysis system for the last 10 years, and have begun to see its successful application for bike fitting and positioning. Adding this feature to the PC8 will allow us to take that application outdoors. “

Further, their product manager of the PC8 itself will be at Interbike and he’s committed to giving me a more detailed dive into it.

I use a PC6 and a Garmin 500 now. Garmin mostly for Strava, but I like having data fields at a glance from the PC6. But since I’m old (52) I can’t configure a Garmin 500 in any fashion that I can read and have the data I want to see.

It seems like the PC8 might give me the best of both worlds in one device.

I don’t understand how so many people are panning this already. For my needs with two bikes, Strava, etc. this seems like a big improvement over a PC7 (let alone my PC6) and at the same price.

I also don’t get the ask for backward compatibility to wired. Yeah, if you’re on a wired SRM it would be nice, but maybe after three new generations it’s time to move up to wireless. Nobody is wondering why Shimano isn’t making Di2 for old 8 speed systems.

Wow, that is slick. While it doesn’t tick all the boxes (lack of zone based workouts is a big one) this looks very impressive. In my mind the big advantage of the Power Control has been the crisp easy to read display. When you are slogging out an interval, you need big easy to read numbers. The PC8 display is the bomb, with all the important data centre stage and nice to know metrics (like temp and elevation) at the fringes, without having to scroll screens. Big question mark is if current and average lap power can be simultaneously displayed. Nice that prices are not going up but it is still expensive.

The SRM system has been and always will be for ballers. There’s a reason even preferred dealers only get a 30% discount on SRM – they sell regardless; clearly the demand is there. Why all the desire to have SRM bring down their prices? They’re clearly in a different category and have stayed in business. Take a business class with the $$ you save on a PT, maybe you’ll learn about exclusivity and a targeted audience.

Not sure about a business class. I asked the question of every power meter company I talked to today (which, would be every single company on the market today). As well as discussed it with all the power meter companies I talked to that aren’t on the market today, but were at Eurobike today.

Whether or not one wants to admit it, the power meter market has changed a lot in the last 1-2 years, and will continue to change dramatically in the next 1-2 years. There’s many drivers impacting price, no doubt, but in an age where information about product accuracy, capabilities and usage is much more transparent than it used to be, I think we’re going to see shifts in choices based on pricing and functionality. I’ve yet to hear a single person in the industry state otherwise.

I’ve got a post update coming later this afternoon with their thoughts on that (as well as everyone else’s plans). Essentially if a PM company had a new product out I wrote/writing a full post (SRM/Power2Max/PowerTap), but if not a new product I’ve got a combodish post for everyone else with minor updates (Quarq, ROTOR, Pioneer, Brim Brothers, Cyclismo).

In short, for Quarq, no current plans. Though we had a long and interactive discussion on the topic and the current market. They were very interested in my thoughts there.

stay tuned – I visit the SRM booth today and hear that in fact the PC8 will use the standard ANT data stream that all other devices are using, along with their current version of offset frequencie. very excited to see this on the market!

Could you please clarify “2) SRM will be implementing left/right balance metrics, including Torque Effectiveness and Pedal Smoothness”. Does this refer (only) to the PC8 being able to display/record left/right balance metrics, including Torque Effectiveness and Pedal Smoothness, from power meters by vendors other than SRM? Or will SRM implement these metrics in its own power meters, and if so, which, and does that require some left vs. right measuring ability, which if I understand correctly, their current power meters do not?

I’m very disappointed to hear they didn’t include support for older wired PMs.

Although from their response about prices, I don’t suppose they care one way or the other if I (and others) are disappointed or not!

SRM did say themselves in an interview a while ago (which appeared on their own website for a while before they deleted it) something along the lines of “we know we have lots of wired users with perfectly working PMs who require an updated PC, and we will not forget about them…”

So they knew they had wired customers who would benefit massively, I guess they just decided to not bother in the end.

Personally I have 2 bikes with wired SRMs and the PC5 whilst its display and info are still just about as good as a PC7 (except for altitude), is quite inconvenient to live with (transfer speeds, battery life, internal memory size etc).

So can we hold out / hope for a BB sensor that replaces the wired one and transmits ANT+, converting our wired systems to wireless? I’d buy 2 of them and 2 PC8s if it were possible!

Hi Ray. You may be interested to know I asked SRM in Germany regarding the rechargeable road cranks, specifically if there will be a Shimano 9000 version for example in 2014 – SRM have confirmed this will NOT happen in the near future but the PC8 will be ready in Q2. You might be able to seek more clarification on this at Interbike Ray?

Nope, they’ll be available starting in January 2014. They’re starting with FSA/Canondale/Rotor 3D for January, but I’m getting a list of exact models and should have them within a day or two. A bit more info here for those just stumbling onto this post:

And if they’re going to target their products at the very high end of riders, I feel like they should make it look sexier. Quarq has got that down pretty well, but SRM looks ugly (imo). Whenever I see a Dura-Ace SRM crankset, I cringe. It’s that bad.

Are the screens customizable? That is, in the current PC7 and prior there is a “current” screen with current values of wattage, heart rate, speed, etc. There is another for “average” and one for “max/total”.

What I would really love to see would be average and current power simultaneously, especially during shorter interval workouts.

The lack of PC8 news might be a little alarming – perhaps SRM need more development time or have some issues to iron out first?

Normally new product releases are tested or used by sponsored World Tour teams before it is rolled out to public and the fact that PC8 hasn’t appeared any where or even in spy shots might lead us to think the release date may be pushed back to the summer or beyond…?

Whats the word on the left/right power on an SRM? Are they going to be able to get this data from existing SRM pm’s (eg SRM DA 9000) or are they going to come out with a whole new line of PM’s that are left/right power capable?

Have you confirmed the breadcrumbs style navigation feature, or was that just listed as a possibility? An SRM rep is telling me they have no plans to implement any sort of turn alert or breadcrumb nav.

They have zero to do with each other in most situations. ANT+ can transmit at a variety of rates, and how a power meter transmits depends a little bit on the way it calculates power. Many actually transmit tied to cadence (revolutions) In most cases, the PM’s are actually broadcasting more power bits per second than once.

Meanwhile, on the Garmin side, the highest rate it supports today is 1s. Depending on the power meter transmitting that could be the average of the last 1s worth of samples, or, it could be just a point in time.

The PC7 data shouldn’t be any smoother unless you have a rolling average filter applied.

Having received my PC8, I thought I make a comment. There is absolutely nothing in the user manual about bluetooth or wifi. Can’t therefore see any way to use either function. Also the SRMMac (ver2) software that I previously used with the PC7 doesn’t recognise the PC8 and I can’t manually import the file. Before, with the PC7, this was easy, then I could just upload the file to training peaks. Its staggering there is no information on this in the manual or on their web site. Actually I am more than disappointed I’m actually quite angry having spent a lot of money and waited a long time. If you have any answers please let me know!

We can only hope that the PC8 hardware itself has what’s needed and the missing features will be addressed in firmware/software and manual updates, and sooner rather than later.

Personally I’m happy enough with the PC8 using Windows OS and uploading files to Strava/WKO+ (via Device Agent) using the Magnetic/USB cable, but I can imagine how frustrated Apple users are at this moment.

Edit: To confirm – I’m not using SRMWin at all. The PC8 shows up as a USB removable drive, just as a USB memory stick appears, so files are “uploaded” directly from that drive, not through any SRM software middleman.

A week with the PC8 and I am very likely to send it back for a refund. As said before I can no longer use SRM’s own software that I have imported files to with the PC7 for 5 years. Fine uploading straight to Training peaks. But you have to plug it in to the PC/MAC to upload the files as the wifi and bluetooth are non-functional on the device! You have to laugh really, and just wonder who has made this product as it reflects v poorly on SRM as it stands. So, what else- well the backlight that is supposed to come on as you ride through dark shaded areas doesn’t seem to do that- has to be virtually night time.The screen is nice and clear and the glass must be antireflective as it copes well. The numbers on the main screen are only large and clear enough for the four main items you can display, such as power, HR, Cadence, Speed. But the smaller additional bit of info on the top line, is a little small to read e.g. distance, ride time, and TSS. Hit the mode button, and you move to the next screen with average data, displayed in a similar way, though you could customise it. Next screen is max data, next screen is altitude then back to start again. Would be nice if you could have the screen automatically scroll between 1, 2 and 3, then you could keep power displayed in same place all time on each screen, but have more useful bits of data showing on the alternate screens every few secs. Finally the GPS data recorded is nice, but as it has zero function on the ride you do, it is pretty superfluous except to allow your data to upload to stave (though yes you guessed it, you have to do this manually). But what actually really has finished this rather pretty but somewhat expensive and underwhelming device off for me, is that it is not pairing with bike 2, 3 or 4! Looks like it should do this easily, but it keep searching, and searching and searching, whereas if I have the PC7 with me, it instantly finds the PM, Garmnin speed sensor, or whatever is on each bike. The PC8 is supposed to be able to pair with these bits on bike 1, 2, 3, and 4 then remember them. But it won’t do it for me. It also takes a good 20-30 secs to boot itself up, by which time my faithful PC7 has already paired up!

I’ve my displays configured differently, and don’t have an issue with the readability, or their functions.

Screen One is “current” ride data – Time ridden, total distance, current power, current HR, current speed etc Screen Two is “Interval” – I switch to this at when I’m about to do an interval. Power, Avg Power, Time. that’s it (all i need to know about an interval!) – then I switch back to “current” after the interval has expired. Screen Three I don’t really need ! NP/TSS etc. Interesting, but pointless on the road Screen Four is the Gradient graph. Again pointless on the road.

And I agree a rotational display as supported by the PC7, wouldn’t hurt. Whatever you could do with a PC7, you should be able to do with a PC8, and currently thats not the case,

Have not tried to switch to bike 2 yet! I setup all the pairings on both my bikes (that went smooth enough), but have never just flipped to “Bike 2” yet and tried a ride, if that doesn’t work then thats a massive issue!

Would be good to get an update from SRM regarding timeline for firmware and software updates for sure.

Hey, thanks for the comments. Interested in the interval page: Does it have the option to show 10 second, 3 seconds, etc power as well? Are those fields available? I use that quite a lot for trending while doing intervals. thanks!

Btw I find it shocking that the SRM website does not actually have any detailed information about the PC8 or their products in general. The PC8 manual which is on the website only covers the absolute basics.

If you have a look at any Garmin manual it does literally answer any question. It lists all available data fields per unit, explains how it can be configured. How to pair etc. Also mentions that Garmin can use GPS speed if you dont want a speed/cadence sensor. The SRM manual does not list any of that.

I know where its coming from though. Being german, having worked in similar companies etc. Pure arrogance about their products (comments about prices reflect that). And I dont think they have any employee under 45. Clearly behind what the new millennial consumer is expecting from a product. It doesnt work that way anymore and SRM will get the bill for that sooner or later.

As for the PC8? Ask some of the distributors and their returns and refunds. SRM tried to venture into new waters with Bluetooth/WiFi and it did not really work. Their background is power and power only. PC7 worked great. Had nothing but time and power.

They need to get their game sorted. Maybe hire some young talent instead of graduated engineers in their 50s. Times have changed SRM.

Lars I very much agree with your comments. I just feel let down by SRM. I had been looking fwd to the PC8 but will be returning mine. The interval screen can show you current power, average power, normalised power and 30sec average. It doesn’t have any other power options than that. Biggest issue is that Bluetooth and wifi have zero function on the device. It may as well not be there. The manual as you say already is incomplete and doesn’t even mention Bluetooth or wifi. From what I can tell you have more features and customisation on a Garmin 800 and for under half the price of the PC8. That really shows how far off the mark SRM are.

And yep. GPS functionallity is purely for Strava uploads (or GoldenCheetah I suppose if you use that).

No maps/breadcrumgs etc, but SRM always said they werent interested in maps or breadcrumb trails.

For me, the the GPS addition is perfrect, as it means I no longer need to carry my (heavy!) android phone in my back pocket, just to record a ride with the Strava app.

OS issues aside (which I realise is one of your main issues Philip Turton), the PC8 is basically a PC7 + GPS and a relatively minor screen upgrade (as the PC7 was so good in the first place) with some nice configuration options (Avg Power during an an Interval being the most useful one)

Well, am doing a 100mile TT tmrw, and thought that would be a good opportunity to test the PC8 out in a race. However, I just can’t get the PC8 to pair with the Suunto speed skewer I have on the TT bike. I thought it might be the battery on the speed sensor so changed it, but still it won’t connect, just doesn’t find it. So I brought in my trusty PC7 to see if that would detect it, and bingo, found it in under 2 secs. Tried multiple times to no avail. Even manually put in the speed sensor number (as displayed on the PC7 screen after connecting) into the profile set up for my tt bike using the PC8 software, but that didn’t help. Then I spent ages on line double checking whether the Suunto speed sensor (skewer) in ANT+, which it appears to be. So why doesn’t it pair? What is wrong with this PC8? Beyond frustrating. So going to go for a quick spin to see if the GPS will show speed without the Suunto skewer. Fingers crossed.

Unfortunately the Suunto speed skewer is actually private-ANT and not ANT+. This means it’s a variant of ANT but only readable by Suunto devices. Some companies made these sensors years ago, thinking private versions would somehow be better (SRM actually did the same thing for a while, and even some of the newer fancy metrics on Garmin devices are also private-ANT). Sorry!

Thanks for quick update- at least I’ll stop trying to pair it with the PC8 with that helpful information from you. Annoying that the Suunto front speed sensor skewer does pair ok with a PC7!!!! And the Suunto front speed sensor skewer was sold as option with the SRM PM instead of the chain stay mounted SRM speed sensor!!!! Anyway, I have also worked out today that I can ride without the speed sensor on at all and the PC8 displays speed from the GPS reading, which I am guessing will be reasonably accurate for my TT as its on open road where GPS signal will be 100%

An update! After 4-weeks of use I returned my PC8 for a full refund. Just too expensive for what it does or rather doesn’t do! For a third of the price I have now got an Edge 520 which does so much more including mapping and Bluetooth phone connectivity and control of turbo!!! The SRM is pretty but not £600 pretty! The features it was supposed to have weren’t even active- Bluetooth and wifi for example.

I was about to pull the trigger on the SRM as i have the 520… yours is the first comment ive come across pro garmin… what power meter do you have? its a tricky decision, to upgrade to something which might be a downgrade in functionality…

I have an SRM. I’ve been with the 520 for over 6-months now and very pleased I ditched the PC8 headunit! I was lucky to get a refund. The 520 is so much more functional and for me it has worked flawlessly.

Yes, the 520 is set up to do it, but you don’t have to do it as it saves the calibration from the previous setting- it is actually a good feature that is deliberately designed into the Edge520 as you should always do an offset zero (which is what this calibration is) prior to your ride each day as they are affected by barmoteric pressure changes- it probably only makes a difference of a few watts, but if you are doing intervals at or over threshold you’ll appreciate the accuracy. So on the Edge it is set to come up as soon as you turn the pedals so it reminds you and is easily done without having to press lots of buttons to get there. On an SRM headunit (either the PC7 or new PC8) it doesn’t prompt you but you just do the offeset zero calibration anyway by pressing the button combinations, as you have to do it to keep the accuracy with the weather. Hope all that makes sense. I still have a PC7 which I much prefer to the PC8!

The totals in the History are incorrect. In my case it just shows 65km while I did several rides and actually all of them were longer than 65km.

I understand that the clock is set by GPS but mine is always 4 Minutes behind the actual GPS time of my Garmin, Iphone, Polar GPS etc. and the time of my friends which results in non grouped activities on Strava. How is that possible? Anyone else?

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