Seal of the Martyr and finals week made VERY bad times for me and in turn, my guild.

I'd avoid every mechanic but that. Thank god no elevator bosses were around, I'd have failed hard at that too.

-Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

Thank god no elevator bosses were around, I'd have failed hard at that too.

You there. You have a bubble/BoP. Y U DIE 2 FALL DMG? I've neeeever done that. As a Paladin, with Engineering. Nooope, neeeever.

Originally Posted by mcbubble

I'm hoping for a sacred shield change.
Can now SS up to 3 targets...

I think we're more likely to see a removal of SS as a talent in that tier, with the current version going to Prot as a baseline thing. They've hinted repeatedly that it's too mandatory to Prot, and too subpar to the other spec's. They've also in the same breath discussed moving back to a reactive/passive shield a la Cata SS, perhaps as a talent. Not sure that Holy would get any use out of it, but they may be ok with pigeonholing Holy into EF instead.

Originally Posted by smokii

if it replaced the need for inquisition, i'd take it.

would make seals feel purposeful again. but yea, it would totally be a throwback to pre-wotlk

It'd be kinda cool to bring back the seal-specific buffs for Ret. It'd be largely wasted on Holy and Prot, ofc, but the option to play that way as Ret would be interesting. Maybe make Inquisition a passive ability in the Ret spec that allows a short-duration buff whenever you judge with X seal:

Inquisition (Retribution): Your Seal abilities are no longer on the GCD. In addition, your successful Judgement hits grant you increased combat prowess for a short time (10 seconds), based on the current seal. This effect refreshes and stacks up to 3 times.

Truth - Increases Holy damage done by 10/20/30% and Critical Strike chance by 3/6/9% - (basically what we have now with Inq up)

Righteousness - Causes all abilities to deal 20/40/60% of their damage split to nearby targets (we now have moderate and passive cleave, at the cost of Holy dmg and Crit, to prevent DS damage scaling out of control)

Justice - Increases your movement speed by 10/20/30% and reduces the duration of movement/control imparing effects by 5/10/15% (makes a good situation PVP seal, either for kiting or chasing)

Light - Increases all healing done and received by 10/20/30% and reduces damage taken by 5/10/15% (basically Ret "defensive stance"; gives up our seal damage but buffs our healing taken and double dips on self-healing taken, with some minor dmg redux)

You could try and game keeping up two 3-stacks (like twisting Truth and Righteousness for the Holy dmg/crit AND the cleave, or twisting Light and Justice in PVP for the movement speed and defensive/support abilities), but would be difficult given the short duration. You could, of course, leave on one seal only if you were lazy/bad with timing, but it would reward good play. Edit: what's more likely, given the state of the game and its audience now, is that they'd just allow us to have 2 seals active at once, now that I think about it...since they'd have to balance around what the top 1% CAN do, and what the bottom 50% CANNOT even think of.

Sure, numbers prob need tweaked, but it would make seals more than "fire-n-forget".

Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-06-04 at 06:12 PM.

Originally Posted by Malthanis

We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)

Gawd I remember those wipe nights on nef back in cata - laughing at all those elevator deaths when I always jump off and bubble.....oh it's still on cd........./facepalm

Boots/Chute across the gap to get to Atramedes, but miss it just short and fall in lava (or miss it left/right and pull trash). Also good. But yeah, jump and bubble was great, except we had a priest who would grip you back/up and usually time it well enough to allow bubble to fall off because of the extra travel time. Best troll ever.

Originally Posted by Malthanis

We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)

I think we're more likely to see a removal of SS as a talent in that tier, with the current version going to Prot as a baseline thing. They've hinted repeatedly that it's too mandatory to Prot, and too subpar to the other spec's. They've also in the same breath discussed moving back to a reactive/passive shield a la Cata SS, perhaps as a talent. Not sure that Holy would get any use out of it, but they may be ok with pigeonholing Holy into EF instead.

Really? I haven't seen posts about Sacred Shield, but I have seen them make posts about how they don't like the current Eternal Flame or like that all holy paladins use it.

I really wish consuming seals by doing judgements would make its comeback. And get some fun seals, like back in the days Seal of Command, which doubles the damage on stunned targets, that was fun!

Making insane combinations, a rogue stunning the target, the ret using the seal of command. I wish next xpack, blizz would make combo's by different classes possible (like in GW2).

A mage putting up a flamestrike, a ret hurling his hammer through it. The hammer is set on fire and deals an additional amount of fire damage over time.
Though this system requires a lot of time to balance it, I would still like to see it

Im a classic veteran. When i see people suggesting judgements consuming seals i feel like, I im 70 millions years old. I spent thousands years of my life escaping from the nightmare that is T-Rex. And now people are talking about how T-Rex is their favorite dinosaur and how awesome the Jurassic Park movie was. YOU WERENT THERE TO LIVE THE HORRORS SO SHUT UP!

Sword of Light: Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 10%.(Down from 30%)

Welcome Jeffrey Kaplan as the new Lead Designer for Paladins.

Seal of Fury Added to the Game. (Alliance)
Seal of the Crusader Re-Added to the Game.
Greater Blessings Removed from the Game.
Holy Power has been removed from the Game.
Seal of Vengeance has been removed from the Game.
Shield of the Righteous has been removed from the Game.
Hammer of the Righteous has been removed from the Game.
Blessing of Might and Wisdom now last 5 minutes. (Down from 60.)
Horde Paladins retain Seal of Vengeance, now called Seal of Blood Again.
Sword of Light only can proc on a Critical, and has been renamed Conviction.
Seal Duration set to 30 Seconds again. Effect Consumed by Successful Judgment.
Sword of Light has been redesigned: Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 3%.(Down from 30%)
With the removal of Holy Power, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Word of Glory, Inquisition and Divine Storm have been removed from the Game.

Paladins can no longer Que as Tanks or DPS. They are a Support Class.

I'm 99.999999% (Repeating) sure this would not happen, but.. You never know.

Remove GCD on Inquisition. Increase it to 40 seconds ( like druids)
Glyph to increase to a minute without any dps reductions.

SS folded into baseline ret again. This would solve many of our defensive problems.
Hand of sacrifice reduced to a 1 min CD.
Rets RBG niche ability ---> The Lights favour. - All group members within 40 yards except the paladin benefit from Wings for 10 seconds. 5 min CD. Causes forbearance on the paladin

* Normal loot has been removed from bosses. Instead, every boss has its own token (which it drops twice for 10 man and 6 times for 25 man) and its own vendor, where every token can be traded for the respective boss loot. This vendors also sell Tier Tokens (depending on which boss they are associated to)
* Thunderforged [or whatever the counterpart for 5.4 is] still only drops from bosses. If it does, it drops instead of one or more tokens from the boss.
* Heroic bosses also only drop the same tokens as normal bosses. Additionally, Heroic bosses drop an item which allows normal loot from that respective boss to be upgraded by 15 itemlevels (independently from normal item upgrades), effectively making the item heroic. can be used on existing items (not just the ones which just have dropped), but can only be used on items associated with the same boss as the heroic upgrade item.

Paladins (Protection):
* Scaling with gear:
spells associated with weapons (e.g. crusader strike, judgement, hammer of wrath etc) have an increased scaling with weapon damage
spells associated with shields (e.g. shield of the righteous, avenger's shield, etc) have an increased scaling with shield armor
all spells have their scaling with attack power reduced to make up for this change.
Reason for this is to increase the scaling with weapon and shields to be on par with a DPS' scaling with their 2h weapon, and make them less dependent from vengeance.
* Avenger's shield now interrupts all targets it hits. If it hits only one target, the silence duration is doubled (glyphed AND not glyphed version of the spell), if it hits all three targets (unglyphed), it does not silence at all. Interrupt and Spell lock for the interrupted class remains unchanged.
* Sacred Shield is now baseline ability for Protection and renamed to Holy Shield. The Cataclysm version of Sacred shield replaces the talent.
* Protection Mastery now also increases the amount of Holy Shield's absorb and the amount of self heal for the caster's Seal of Insight.
* Seal of Truth and Seal of Righteousness were removed for protection Paladins. Seal of Insight now inherits the effects of all three seals in some way. Seal of Insight still gives melee attacks to heal the caster. Additionally, Crusader Strike now does additional instant holy damage and causes censure to apply to the target. Using Crusader Strike on targets with censure, increases the additional instant holy damage by 100%. Hammer of the Righteous causes less additional instant holy damage than crusader strike (compared to using CS without censure already applied), but causes that holy damage on all targets hit. It does not cause censure itself, but refreshes existing censures on targets.
* All AoE abilities except consecration are now smart spells and will not break crowd controls.
* All damage from Seal of insight is somewhat lower against PvP targets. [I'm not doing the math here, but low enough to make prot not OP, but still high enough to make prot not completely garbage in PVP]

Stats on Gear:
* Dodge and Parry were removed from all gear (they also cannot be reforged into anymore).
* on existing items, dodge and parry were replaced with another stat not currently present (mastery, hit, expertise, crit, haste)
* this effectively removes distinction between Str DPS and Str Tank gear.
* dodge and parry remain functional.
* str gives a significant higher chance to parry than before.
* agi gives a significant higher chance to dodge than before.
* Diminishing returns [of dodge and parry] were removed vs PVE targets. They remain effective (with an increased rate) against PVP targets.
* Str classes cannot dodge anymore. Agi classes cannot parry anymore.
* a full 522 geared character (e.g. a paladin) which has used dodge and/or parry items at about 50% of their item slots should see no change in avoidance. They may have had 16% parry and 8% dodge before, and they have 24% parry now. Lower geared characters should see a slight drop in avoidance, whereas higher geared characters should see a slight increase in avoidance. If someone has used only dodge parry items, they should see a slight drop, and characters without dodge parry items at all should also see a slight increase.

* All intellect and spirit on plate items were removed.
* Holy paladins have all plate items reworked to strength. This does not apply for weapons, shields, offhand items, rings, trinkets, necks and cloaks (=> only the 8 plate items)
* Str on the affected item slots will directly be converted to int in an ratio 1:1
* Spirit on plate items:
** hit and expertise on the affected itemslots will be converted directly to spirit 1:1
** if no hit or expertise are present on an item, the highest secondary stat will be converted directly to spirit 1:1.
** stats that are converted to spirit loose their original effect, and cannot be reforged to spirit, but to their original stat.
** e.g.: an item has 500 mastery and 600 crit, this 600 crit will be converted to 600 spirit. these 600 cannot be reforged into 240 spirit (because it IS spirit), but into 240 crit, if desired.
** e.g. #2: if an item has 500 hit and 600 expertise, this will result in 500 spirit and 600 spirit, non of these can be reforged into spirit, but you can reforge either in hit or expertise (even though this would not make much sense for a holy paladin).
* There will be a option in the interface (default: activated, located in the talent tree of holy specialization only), which shows the original stats of an item as greyed out, struck through and 50% alpha, and the effective stat with normal colors. This is an interface option only available for paladins with holy spec, and will also apply to any player inspecting the holy paladin. This will also effect items dropped by bosses before looting to see the "real" stats when looted by the paladin. This will - obviously - only affect the paladin while in holy spec.

* this whole system does not apply for gems or enchants, only for the gear itself.

Any immunity effects (such as Hand of Protection and Divine shield, or to some extend cloak of shadows) cannot be used to bypass boss mechanics (e.g. remove debuffs that require tank switches, eventually making it possible to solo tank an encounter which was designed to be two-tanked)

I like a paladin to be a strong tank, but I don't like a paladin to make mechanics trivial which is more or less an exploit...

I think I forgot a few Ideas, but even if ONE (anyone) of the changes would take place in 5.4, I'd be happy.