Never quite understood why there is such hatred for her. She is actually an interesting character, who we're seeing slowly turn more and more, into what she hates due to power. The belief that "anyone evil is boring, and should just die" is pretty lame.

I love having a long lasting evil character, who isn't just a thug headed moron.

Agreed partly. Sylvanas is pretty interesting character. To be Honest she is my favorite leader in the Horde and 2nd in my favorite leader list in overall game (after Varian). Her character has developed into Steel Lady who is unbent to anyone. She trusts only herself that makes her stronger and of course she has her own intentions, but that doesnt make her EVIL. Torturing Trolls, humans and other living being is how forsaken live its like their hobby or addiction (like magic to Blood elves or Killing and smashin thing like orcs, old Horde was example of it). They have to survive because they do not breed you know? So they are finding new ways to stay alive and some new weapons how to deal with enemy

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 11:41 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Kazomir

Sylvanas isnt the type that gets offended by a rude word. She just dosent care about garrosh.
Also, Forsaken Lives, hah, nice one.

You are very wrong my friend when you say that she doesnt care about Forsaken life. She does care about them! She maybe self-loved person but one way or another she needs her people as wall to defend her and they need her to lead them. Its not respect, not love, not even fear between her and her people but the need to survive between Living. They are almost only undead living in Azeroth now in such large group. If sylvanas died for sure Horde and Alliance would wipe Forsaken out. And if she lost her people she for sure woul be unneeded.[COLOR="red"]

Sylvanas isnt the type that gets offended by a rude word. She just dosent care about garrosh.
Also, Forsaken Lives, hah, nice one.

Let's see, she has Kor'kron breathing down her neck at all times, strict limitations on what she can and can't do, ordered by someone who obviously doesn't respect her or her people, the Bitch comment is just something else on the list, she has PLENTY of reasons to hate Garrosh. I don't even know why I'm arguing this with a hardcore alliance fan though, no matter what points I bring up, logical or not, it will be dismissed by "Draenei Lore lol" "Where's the Worgen" "Gnomes need development" "Blizz favors Horde"

Let's see, she has Kor'kron breathing down her neck at all times, strict limitations on what she can and can't do, ordered by someone who obviously doesn't respect her or her people, the Bitch comment is just something else on the list, she has PLENTY of reasons to hate Garrosh. I don't even know why I'm arguing this with a hardcore alliance fan though, no matter what points I bring up, logical or not, it will be dismissed by "Draenei Lore lol" "Where's the Worgen" "Gnomes need development" "Blizz favors Horde"

Allright, you are right. She might need to be in the Raid or make some appearance in it.

Still, the last four things you counted are pretty much valid and they NEED development WAY more than the forsaken at this point. THIS is why they are being brought up again and again and again. They need it they deserve it and nobody will shut up about it untill its done.

Let's see, she has Kor'kron breathing down her neck at all times, strict limitations on what she can and can't do, ordered by someone who obviously doesn't respect her or her people, the Bitch comment is just something else on the list, she has PLENTY of reasons to hate Garrosh. I don't even know why I'm arguing this with a hardcore alliance fan though, no matter what points I bring up, logical or not, it will be dismissed by "Draenei Lore lol" "Where's the Worgen" "Gnomes need development" "Blizz favors Horde"

This is a logical point, but those are reasons she can't join the rebellion, not just yet, she can't make a move without her people being severely depleted by the Kork'on a race she can't just rise to rejoin her numbers. besides, as much as she hates Garrosh, he provides corpses. Yes he said no raising, but she ignores him anyway, as long as she has corpses and the ability to do it, she will.

Why, any success they would achieve would be out of character at this point.

Originally Posted by gcsmith

This is a logical point, but those are reasons she can't join the rebellion, not just yet, she can't make a move without her people being severely depleted by the Kork'on a race she can't just rise to rejoin her numbers. besides, as much as she hates Garrosh, he provides corpses. Yes he said no raising, but she ignores him anyway, as long as she has corpses and the ability to do it, she will.

Banshees are her unique units, Forsaken were feeding orcs since cooking dailies were introduced. Half of the ocupation should be poisoned or possessed by now.

"We may see some of Sylvanas before the end of the expansion, but no promises."

Sylvanas might do something at the end of this expansion.... That is an interesting fact if that is true. But what would she do?

I will unleash my braintornado here:

She hits the killing blow on Garrosh to wipe his ass for good. If anyone of all faction leaders hates Garrosh the most then it is Sylvanas. She might end his reign to end up better herself. The rest of the Horde's leaders disagree to what she did and are angry on Sylvanas, but understand why she did it.
Then suddenly a massive Demon, Naga and shit invade Azeroth once again. While both factions know they need forces to protect themselves, Sylvanas does brashly self-confident her own thing, like always. She goes to Northrend to check on Bolvar and ask for help from the Scourge to aid in the battle against the Burning Legion. While at first Bolvar rejects her request to aid. Sylvanas succeed to bring Bolvar on second thoughts of joining the Scourge forces with the other forces against the Burning Legion, but at the cost of something extremely valuable. Sylvanas must resign herself as queen of the Forsaken and give Lordearon back to the Alliance. Sylvanas wants only one thing and that is saving her people against this mighty Burning Legion and agrees on the deal.
Forsaken disagrees with Sylvanas and call her a traitor from now on. Anger from their queens decision they fight for the land of their ancestors and another war is born.

I imagine part of the reason is that Blizz wanted to give a spotlight to some of the other Horde leaders, as they've taken a backseat to Sylvanas and whomever happens to be Warchief at the time. Pre-MoP, people still made Lor'Themar Theron (who?) jokes, Vol'jin's contributions to lore was a pre-expansion event that you can't do anymore and trash talking Garrosh in a troll-only starting quest, and Baine has basically done nothing in game, he's mostly just in the novels.

"We may see some of Sylvanas before the end of the expansion, but no promises."

Sylvanas might do something at the end of this expansion.... That is an interesting fact if that is true. But what would she do?

I will unleash my braintornado here:

She hits the killing blow on Garrosh to wipe his ass for good. If anyone of all faction leaders hates Garrosh the most then it is Sylvanas. She might end his reign to end up better herself. The rest of the Horde's leaders disagree to what she did and are angry on Sylvanas, but understand why she did it.
Then suddenly a massive Demon, Naga and shit invade Azeroth once again. While both factions know they need forces to protect themselves, Sylvanas does brashly self-confident her own thing, like always. She goes to Northrend to check on Bolvar and ask for help from the Scourge to aid in the battle against the Burning Legion. While at first Bolvar rejects her request to aid. Sylvanas succeed to bring Bolvar on second thoughts of joining the Scourge forces with the other forces against the Burning Legion, but at the cost of something extremely valuable. Sylvanas must resign herself as queen of the Forsaken and give Lordearon back to the Alliance. Sylvanas wants only one thing and that is saving her people against this mighty Burning Legion and agrees on the deal.
Forsaken disagrees with Sylvanas and call her a traitor from now on. Anger from their queens decision they fight for the land of their ancestors and another war is born.

I would prefer it if Forsaken (note, Forsaken, not Sylvanas, she could be dead by this point for all I care) were not begging Bolvar for help, they should wrestle the control over scourge from him, liberating the enslaved undead from all over Northrend.

Let's see, Wrathion has promised the return of the Burning Legion, I'm sure is has been discussed with Anduin, and Varian has shown that he actually can and will listen to his son. Not to mention seeing Garrosh's disregard for life and morals lately, Varian seems to be taking the moral highground. After the 5.2 Quests it seemed like Jaine isn't so hellbent on the destruction of the Horde, rather the death of Garrosh. Mainly though, it's the Legion, the Alliance can't even manage to win a long term full scale war against the Horde unless it crumbles in on itself, they really don't have too much hope against the Legion.

So you're saying they actually want the horde to prevail so they can help in defeating the burning legion? Please. If that was the case they would've seen that fact when they were fighting C'thun, Yogg'saron, Kael'thas, Illidan, the Lich King, Deathwing and many more. Throughout history odds have always been against us, and we always "need" to work together. But when it comes to it, fighting eachother and <insert enemy> at the same time is never an issue. This is no reason for them to help the horde getting rid of their oppressing "dictator". It's just an excuse to have the alliance in the same raid instance, which is a lore fail in itself. Leaving Sylvanas out of it just makes it even worse.

Also, Jaina is an agent of the Kirin Tor. She shouldn't be involved in alliance politics. Not to mention the long friendship she's had with Thrall, she should step aside out of respect for him, since Garrosh is his to deal with.

P.S: I'm looking forward to the raid, have nothing against it, but we're talking in a lore perspective here.

"We may see some of Sylvanas before the end of the expansion, but no promises."

Sylvanas might do something at the end of this expansion.... That is an interesting fact if that is true. But what would she do?

I will unleash my braintornado here:

She hits the killing blow on Garrosh to wipe his ass for good. If anyone of all faction leaders hates Garrosh the most then it is Sylvanas. She might end his reign to end up better herself. The rest of the Horde's leaders disagree to what she did and are angry on Sylvanas, but understand why she did it.
Then suddenly a massive Demon, Naga and shit invade Azeroth once again. While both factions know they need forces to protect themselves, Sylvanas does brashly self-confident her own thing, like always. She goes to Northrend to check on Bolvar and ask for help from the Scourge to aid in the battle against the Burning Legion. While at first Bolvar rejects her request to aid. Sylvanas succeed to bring Bolvar on second thoughts of joining the Scourge forces with the other forces against the Burning Legion, but at the cost of something extremely valuable. Sylvanas must resign herself as queen of the Forsaken and give Lordearon back to the Alliance. Sylvanas wants only one thing and that is saving her people against this mighty Burning Legion and agrees on the deal.
Forsaken disagrees with Sylvanas and call her a traitor from now on. Anger from their queens decision they fight for the land of their ancestors and another war is born.

This doesnt really makes any sense. She would never ally herself with scourge regardless of circumstances. Also why the hell would bolvar ask her for all these things ? He's pretty much a big ice-cream atm, left only as possible way for ner'zhul to return (since blizzard loves setbacks). Also her killing garrosh would be completely out of place we could as well make gnome leader drop a giant fridge from space on his head. DEEP STRIKE FROM SPEEEHSS. Her role if anything will probably limit to "im loyal to horde, and im not a D-bag" by supporting rebels with some reinforcements. Or plaguing orgrimmar. Both possibilities are good.

I would prefer it if Forsaken (note, Forsaken, not Sylvanas, she could be dead by this point for all I care) were not begging Bolvar for help, they should wrestle the control over scourge from him, liberating the enslaved undead from all over Northrend.

All other leaders might know that getting the Scourge for help is a bad idea. The situation will get out of hand at some point and bring another disaster to Azeroth, maybe in the middle of the Burning Legion's invasion. Then we've got shit everywhere.

"We may see some of Sylvanas before the end of the expansion, but no promises."

Sylvanas might do something at the end of this expansion.... That is an interesting fact if that is true. But what would she do?

I will unleash my braintornado here:

She hits the killing blow on Garrosh to wipe his ass for good. If anyone of all faction leaders hates Garrosh the most then it is Sylvanas. She might end his reign to end up better herself. The rest of the Horde's leaders disagree to what she did and are angry on Sylvanas, but understand why she did it.
Then suddenly a massive Demon, Naga and shit invade Azeroth once again. While both factions know they need forces to protect themselves, Sylvanas does brashly self-confident her own thing, like always. She goes to Northrend to check on Bolvar and ask for help from the Scourge to aid in the battle against the Burning Legion. While at first Bolvar rejects her request to aid. Sylvanas succeed to bring Bolvar on second thoughts of joining the Scourge forces with the other forces against the Burning Legion, but at the cost of something extremely valuable. Sylvanas must resign herself as queen of the Forsaken and give Lordearon back to the Alliance. Sylvanas wants only one thing and that is saving her people against this mighty Burning Legion and agrees on the deal.
Forsaken disagrees with Sylvanas and call her a traitor from now on. Anger from their queens decision they fight for the land of their ancestors and another war is born.

All other leaders might know that getting the Scourge for help is a bad idea. The situation will get out of hand at some point and bring another disaster to Azeroth, maybe in the middle of the Burning Legion's invasion. Then we've got shit everywhere.

Why, Scourge are not some eldritch abominations with its own motives, its just mass of enslaved bodies.

This doesnt really makes any sense. She would never ally herself with scourge regardless of circumstances. Also why the hell would bolvar ask her for all these things ? He's pretty much a big ice-cream atm, left only as possible way for ner'zhul to return (since blizzard loves setbacks). Also her killing garrosh would be completely out of place we could as well make gnome leader drop a giant fridge from space on his head. DEEP STRIKE FROM SPEEEHSS. Her role if anything will probably limit to "im loyal to horde, and im not a D-bag" by supporting rebels with some reinforcements. Or plaguing orgrimmar. Both possibilities are good.

Prove she's not a d-bag by plauging the city loyal to horde troops such as Tauren and innocent civillians are... So funny.

"We may see some of Sylvanas before the end of the expansion, but no promises."

Sylvanas might do something at the end of this expansion.... That is an interesting fact if that is true. But what would she do?

I will unleash my braintornado here:

She hits the killing blow on Garrosh to wipe his ass for good. If anyone of all faction leaders hates Garrosh the most then it is Sylvanas. She might end his reign to end up better herself. The rest of the Horde's leaders disagree to what she did and are angry on Sylvanas, but understand why she did it.
Then suddenly a massive Demon, Naga and shit invade Azeroth once again. While both factions know they need forces to protect themselves, Sylvanas does brashly self-confident her own thing, like always. She goes to Northrend to check on Bolvar and ask for help from the Scourge to aid in the battle against the Burning Legion. While at first Bolvar rejects her request to aid. Sylvanas succeed to bring Bolvar on second thoughts of joining the Scourge forces with the other forces against the Burning Legion, but at the cost of something extremely valuable. Sylvanas must resign herself as queen of the Forsaken and give Lordearon back to the Alliance. Sylvanas wants only one thing and that is saving her people against this mighty Burning Legion and agrees on the deal.
Forsaken disagrees with Sylvanas and call her a traitor from now on. Anger from their queens decision they fight for the land of their ancestors and another war is born.

The Forsaken would never give up Lordearon. It belongs to them more than the alliance, since they lived there (when they were alive). Sylvanas knows this, and has sacrificed much to keep it, she'd die.. again, before giving it up. Besides, I don't think the alliance would be interested in it anymore. Have you seen Tirisfal Glades lately? Last time I was there all I saw was infected trees, demon dogs and tents made out of human faces. And I don't think Blizzard would want to make a huge impact like that on a starting zone anytime soon.

Also, as much as I want Bolvar to use the Scourge for something useful, he never will. He's too pure and adamant in his mission (jailor of the damned). So unless he's corrupted by something, they'll stand idle for as long as he's in control.