Speaking of shootings, I had read today or yesterday that a 15 year old boy killed 4 members of his family (if I'm not mistaken?) right outside of Albuquerque, NM the other day. Motive is unknown at the moment.

Top three gun owning countries in the world are the U.S., Yemen and Switzerland.

There are about 9 guns for every 10 people in America.
There are about 5.5 guns for every 10 people in Yemen
There are about 4.6 guns for every 10 people in Switzerland

In the U.S. you will have 10.2 out of every 100,000 deaths be due to firearms (3.6 of those deaths are due to homicides, 6.3 due to suicides)
Yemen has around 1200 shooting deaths per year (deaths per 100,000... not sure, I can't find it)
In Switzerland there are 3.84 out of every 100,000 deaths due to firearms

You know what's strange though?

In El Salvador, about 50.36 out of every 100,000 deaths are due to firearms (all homicides, as suicide data is unknown), but only about 5.8 out of every 100 people own a gun.

In Jamacia about 47.44 out of every 100,000 deaths are due to firearms(again, all homicides), but only 8.1 out of every 100 people own a gun.

Hmm, maybe it's a cultural problem and not the problem of the number of guns?

Waaaaaaay beyond the copy cat explanation, or the media sensationalization generalization. These things have their own wiki pages, some people would be surprised how often this s--- goes down.

From what I read not long ago on USA Today, they're saying that this started as a dispute between two individuals, one of whom pulled a gun and started shooting. There were bystanders that were hit who were not targets of the gunman, so I don't know if I'd characterize this as a "copycat" crime. On the other hand, as to the issue of media sensationalization, I'd say that this is an example of it. Yes, it's newsworthy, but IMO not due the front-and-center placement in the news. I guess since it happened at a school, the headlines scream a little louder.

Hmm, maybe it's a cultural problem and not the problem of the number of guns?

OSU: I'd tend to agree, but what do you do when the culture is too arrogant to even realize the need for change? Let's face it, many laws are passed due to the fact that more simple-minded, less-socialized elements of our society are not capable of managing themselves in a responsible manner or with regard for other people's safety and well-being. There are too many people in our society who are unwilling to admit that anything is wrong, much less address the issues that plague our society. I'm not saying that I have any answers, but it's impossible to get a dialogue going when the first roadblock is the fact that a very large segment of our society either sees no problems at all or refuses to believe that they play any part in our nation's problems. That's how, in spite of having an approval rating under 10%, most of Congress keeps getting reelected -- "It's not MY rep who is the problem. It's everyone else's rep who is the problem."

Another issue I have when the NRA and other like-minded groups make their catcalls for "better mental health care" and "more security guards" (the fact that this latter point makes it sound like the imposition of a quasi-fascist state notwithstanding) is that these are the same people who bellow "IT'S MY MONEY!" when it comes to taxes to fund programs such as mental health and funding security/police. It's nothing but worthless, empty lip service when you're calling for things you have absolutely no intention whatsoever to pay for. Honest dialogue does not begin with nonstarters.

Myself, I think it's more of a genetic trait that's inherent to a species prone to violence, as a cornerstone, and grows from there.

Of course it is, but why is it that in some cultures of human beings the gun violence rate is so high (U.S., Jamaica, El Salvador)... and in other cultures of human beings, it is so low (Japan, South Korea, Qatar)?

I don't know the answer, but I do know that the corrolation doesn't have any to do with # of guns.

Look at Qatar... 19.2% of the population owns guns and only .18 out of every 100,000 deaths are due to firearms.

Compare that with Panama... 21.7% of the population own guns (similar percentage to Qatar) and about 10.92 out of every 100,000 deaths are due to firearms. (even higher than the U.S.' 10.2 per 100,000.. despite an almost 89% gun ownership rate)

From what I read not long ago on USA Today, they're saying that this started as a dispute between two individuals, one of whom pulled a gun and started shooting. There were bystanders that were hit who were not targets of the gunman, so I don't know if I'd characterize this as a "copycat" crime. On the other hand, as to the issue of media sensationalization, I'd say that this is an example of it. Yes, it's newsworthy, but IMO not due the front-and-center placement in the news. I guess since it happened at a school, the headlines scream a little louder.

My position is that it's neither, like I said.

edit: because the occurence happens far to often for media sensationalization to be a cause.

Really I don't think the people pulling this s--- off are truly thinking about anything occuring after the event has gone down.

OSU: I'd tend to agree, but what do you do when the culture is too arrogant to even realize the need for change? Let's face it, many laws are passed due to the fact that more simple-minded, less-socialized elements of our society are not capable of managing themselves in a responsible manner or with regard for other people's safety and well-being. There are too many people in our society who are unwilling to admit that anything is wrong, much less address the issues that plague our society. I'm not saying that I have any answers, but it's impossible to get a dialogue going when the first roadblock is the fact that a very large segment of our society either sees no problems at all or refuses to believe that they play any part in our nation's problems. That's how, in spite of having an approval rating under 10%, most of Congress keeps getting reelected -- "It's not MY rep who is the problem. It's everyone else's rep who is the problem."

I really have no idea, but it's a very good question.

There is definitely an issue and it needs to be addressed.

The problem is, every time something like this happens people act like the problem is contained in a bubble and that a passing of a simple law can fix everything.

Laws aren't going to stop mass shootings. It's already illegal to shoot up elementary, high and university schools.

I guess my "deal" is... I just hate it when people get trapped in the trivial aspects like, "what guns should be banned and what guns shouldn't be banned".

It doesn't matter.

Ban every gun today and there are still enough guns sitting in households for everyone in this country who wants one to have one. New guns hitting the market should be the least of peoples worries. There are already systems in place to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and those with violent histories. Could those systems be tightened? Sure, and if there are easy fixes that can be put in place, why not put them there. I have no problem with that.

I just know that the gun violence problem in the United States isn't going to magically be fixed by banning assault rifles. Assault rifles make up a very small portion of all gun crimes in the U.S. in the first place.

edit: because the occurence happens far to often for media sensationalization to be a cause.

Really I don't think the people pulling this s--- off are truly thinking about anything occuring after the event has gone down.

(Facepalm) Misunderstanding on my part.

I think (as a very oversimplified explanation) one big reason is that a lot of people aren't taught or "aren't man enough" (for lack of a better term) to deal with problems without resorting to some kind of violence. Humble people we are not.

I think (as a very oversimplified explanation) one big reason is that a lot of people aren't taught or "aren't man enough" (for lack of a better term) to deal with problems without resorting to some kind of violence. Humble people we are not.

Yeup.

I actually don't believe that guns are the real problem. I just think that people in general are too stupid and irresponsible to have ready access to weapons that can cause mass carnage so quickly.

The real problem, as I see it, is the culture of violence that is endemic to people across the world. I think that a paradigm shift in cultural and societal attitudes towards conflict resolution and guidance in solving personal issues is what is really needed. But even if that were to happen, it will take many, many, many years of concerted effort for any remotely positive outcome. And the problem with that scenario is that people think that the solution to the issue is more guns when in fact, that's part and parcel of the attitudinal issues behind gun violence.

It's estimated that between 800k and 8mil people would resort to violence if a gun ban were to be put in place, including a decent majority of military service members and police members. So let's go ahead and take that option off the table. Instead deal with the real problem.