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'Good' form is only really important for injury prevention. You can still make adaptations using what most people would consider bad form. It's just stuff like rows you might get injured. All the super slow bs with these ultra slow negatives seems really silly imo.

Those are good points. I never even thought about the possible injury aspect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BendtheBar

I do the same type of rows as Pete. I don't believe in babying rows. I also don't believe in the near standing up rows.

To me it looks like he's basically deadlifting the bar to his knees and then pulling the bar to his waist with his lats. What I do is I deadlift the bar all the way up, then lower it down to just above my knees and do the whole set from there without setting the bar back on the floor in between reps. Do you think that's effective or is it one of those near standing up rows? I can't seem to be able to do any other kind because they put too much pressure on my lower back.

I remember watching this video about Bertil Fox, one of the first mass monsters of the 80s from the UK. He had the worst form I've ever seen but he said it worked for him to stimulate the muscle using heavy weight. He had insane genetics and took a tonnes of gear though. He had a 600lb bench apparently.

"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." – Socrates

I remember watching this video about Bertil Fox, one of the first mass monsters of the 80s from the UK. He had the worst form I've ever seen but he said it worked for him to stimulate the muscle using heavy weight. He had insane genetics and took a tonnes of gear though. He had a 600lb bench apparently.

Found it on youtube.]

He's a total contradiction to everything you assume to be right, but it obviously worked for him.

"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." – Socrates

I agree with most of what has been said so far. However, on squat, bench, and deads the crew I train with will not tolerate intentional form sloppiness. They put alot of effort and time into coaching me and expect me to improve and learn. On Max attempts, my form breakdowns very little because of this coaching. Additionally, the risk of injury, even on some iso lifts like curls, is too high for my liking - even a forearm injury can cause havoc on all your training. As well, one may not be injured on a lift while cheating but the risk of a cumulative effect is always there.

I'm definitely a form first lifter. I look at form as maximizing leverage. If I'm not maximizing leverage I'm lifting less weight. I'm not saying I don't push it because God knows I have put up some ugly lifts haha! I just don't believe in the lift it at all cost philosophy. That will only let you progress so far.

Form is your best leverages and in my opinion safest option. Can you lift more lifting like it's the wild west? Sure maybe. But you will pay the price later with disc injuries or shoulder tears, whatever. I couldn't squat or deadlift more with crappy form, but I could bench more. Right up until it wrecked my shoulder. I learned correct form after that! Now I can actually squat somewhat more with crappy form (my best squats have been with good form, but crappy form does creep into my training more often than I'd like), and you bet I am being very wary of that. I never could deadlift worth a crap, good form or not, but recently have made some form corrections so am hopeful there.

I think with the main exercises your need to be thinking good form all the time, if a max ends up being ugly, so be it, but make it a clean PR next time. On rows, curls, etc. other non main lifts, it's much less strict, just get them done with decent form and don't do yourself a mischief. I won't egregiously cheap on curls or rows, but if I got one more rep to hit, I will hit it whatever it takes. I think the risk of injury in those lesser lifts is not as great. Hurt yourself on a squat, bench, Deadlift, OHP and you're in a world of hurt. Often a row or curl injury isn't quite so bad.

Time in the gym is strength gaining time. Time nursing an injury is strength wasting time.

My .02

__________________
I am Anton Zdravko Martin!

Best meet lifts: Sq 150 Kg (330 lb), Bench 120 Kg (264), DL 160 (352) @89 Kg (197)
Best gym lifts: Sq 375, Bench 280 (pause), DL 385 @205 or less
Goals: 3/4/5 while healthy and fit
"Hack away at anything which isn't essential. Do what you love, and do it often." Fazc.
"Everything competes for recovery so more assistance is not always the best idea." miked96
"Squat:15 sets of 3 with 150Kg
Deadlift:15 sets of 3 with 150Kg
It's not rocket science." Big Swede

On the Squat and Deadlift.. Form is Key in Big numbers...No room for bad form.. It will breakdown when shooting for PR's and such, but cheating reps is not smart on these.

Now on Rows, Curls, ISO movements and even Bench at times... Cheating the last rep or two.. To a Degree.. Like on you last set and last rep or two... Swing just a little to get past a sticking point. Or on bench and doing touch and go's...

Also something I haven't seen mentioned.. These ae like tools on your belt.. No different then Super Sets or gaint Sets and so on. Aslong as you don't do it on every rep everyday.. your Fine. You can keep decent form and still "Cheat" a little.

It's a way of Overloading or taking the muscle to failure. Not much different then using Briefs, Knee Wraps, Rev Bands etc... if you think about...I just think these methods are smarter and safer way of getting to the same point.

Also for BodyBuilding you can get away with it more. As your weight is less and your reps are higher. Talking about 10-12 reps and trying to squeeze out that 13th rep.. For Powerlifting.. Cheating on 1-3 Reps just shouldn't be an option. Form Breaking down isn't Cheating, but doing it on purpose with close to PR weight is DUMB.