Eh, I think the lv 1 Rogue strategy is more of a gimmick thing even in normal circumstances. In a vicious or vicious+vicious dungeon it's incredibly sub-optimal, especially since you could just prep Yendor for instant level 5. Moreover, a lv 10 Goblin Assassin is going to have better stats all around and will also have an entire dungeon's worth of popcorn to get piety from Tikki Tooki, so he can pull off most of the same tricks as the Rogue only with far more resources. (Granted, a Goblin Assassin doesn't do much "normal" leveling either.)

For comparison, the alpha's Boss Hive has level 2 Meat Man with 4 attack and 90 HP. And the alpha had far more broken strategies available than the current game.

Still, the alpha boss hive is easier. For one, the boss isn't pumped out of this solar system.

Want a challenge? Do Vicious Hard Gaan-Telet. Anyways, I very much agree with you that the damage of the monsters should not be pumped up. The third floor has 5 guys with 150 damage, high hp (don't remember), and an extra special effect (hopefully not counter: fireball). Then there's the boss. Good luck.

EDIT: I'm not very adept with Goblin Assassins, so I'm curious what your strategy is. I usually get beaten by the third guy for three reasons. 1) Physical attacks are useless. 2) You can't use poison and fire because of high regen. 3) You can't use Schadenfreude because of his maxed out attack.

Oh yeah, the rogue may be a gimmick, but on hard vicious he cleans the floor. Got my Magma mines one through him and cleared berserker camp (with the second boss as tower of goo!), not to mention many more easier clears.

We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

The Avatar wrote:EDIT: I'm not very adept with Goblin Assassins, so I'm curious what your strategy is. I usually get beaten by the third guy for three reasons. 1) Physical attacks are useless. 2) You can't use poison and fire because of high regen. 3) You can't use Schadenfreude because of his maxed out attack.

On my successful run, I went JJ (2x mana boost and Chaos Avatar) into TT (1x Tikki Edge, Dodging, and 2x potions) and desecrated Binlor at some point, had the Battlemage Ring, Mage Plate, and Piercing Wand, and no significant glyph usage other than BURNDAYRAZ and APHEELSIK (and lots of WEYTWUT while exploring). I had 25-ish max MP against the third form, and my strategy was to hit him with a fireball, explore to regen, and repeat until the floor was fully revealed, at which point he had a large burning stack and I had full MP. I think I only needed one mana potion and then a first strike to finish him off (I'd converted the Piercing Wand earlier, but it would have also made my one physical attack stronger if I'd kept it). The fourth form was the really tricky part, since I didn't have PISORF, but I pulled it off with the TT potions and the fact that Retaliate Fireball only hits for half damage.

Would have worked even better with Mystera instead of JJ and the addition of the Crystal Ball, BLUDTOPOWA, and/or PISORF, but the Goblin Assassin is kind of ridiculous once you get the hang of him. Like the Tinker, he can work quite well with nearly any combo, except he's so much stronger than the Tinker.

Took a hacked scout through Super Vicious Gaan Telet. The monsters end up with about the same damage, they just hit the cap earlier. Horatio still had 5000 HP, but his starting damage doubled from 75 to 150, and when enraged, was 215. I think that a Monk with maxed resistances and the Vampiric Blade could do it, but that's about it. You would probably want the Really Big Sword too. BYSCEPS is good too, but doesn't help as much against all of those 150 damage Goo Blobs and Wraiths you'll be facing.

The Avatar wrote:Wait, what about the first form. Did you go with the explore the whole map then level up while fireballing (starting at level one), or just fight him with physical attacks at a higher level?

Generally a good approach is to pick a lv 8-9 monster with low HP (and no magic res) and start working on it at level 1, use a few midfight level-ups to kill it, then turn to the boss. You do actually want to save as much blackspace as possible until you hit a high level, because poison is very effective for a spellcaster at lv 8+.

That said, it's nowhere near as easy as I may have made it out to be. In 10+ serious attempts I haven't beaten him once, and I'm starting to second guess whether I remembered to take the Vicious Token the one time I did beat him. I do think it's possible, since I can get to his fourth form fairly reliably, you just need a really good setup to take that form down (probably 2+ sets of TT potions, Scholar Pact or some other way to tank at least one hit from him, and having not done anything to wreck your attack power).

Ugh, I finally made it past Namtar's fourth form, only to lose (for the first time ever?!) against his fifth form. Just because I had to convert literally everything to get one last level up and beat form #4. It's definitely doable, at least. This time 'round I did Mystera (everything but Refreshment) -> Earthmother (Plantation/Clearance to finish off form #2 and then a bunch of Vine Forms) and then picked up Scholar Pact right before heading down. Snagged a WEYTWUT, and I think the 6 MP WEYTWUT / 5 MP BURNDAYRAZ / BLUDTOPOWA (with Battlemage Ring and Flames) might be the way to go on form #4. Even in its nerfed state, BLUDTOPOWA is incredibly helpful, just so you have something to do with your health that doesn't involve trying to tank ridiculous hits.

I wonder if a Vampire might have more success in the vicious-vicious Tower. He actually benefits quite a bit from the increased monster HP. He will struggle at low levels, though.