New massacre in Libya: 30 killed after rebel VP calls for no-fly zone

posted at 4:13 pm on March 4, 2011 by Allahpundit

Actually, it’s at least 30. It happened in Zawiyah, an oil city and the closest one to Tripoli that’s controlled by rebels; the unit responsible is allegedly the notorious Khamis Brigade, named after — and commanded by — Qaddafi’s own son. Qaddafi wants Zawiyah back to break the opposition’s momentum, give himself some breathing space territorially, and reclaim a bit of his petroleum lifeline. He tried to retake it a few days ago but that counteroffensive was repelled. This time the city’s rebel commander was killed, and Libyan state TV is now apparently reporting that Qaddafi’s goons are back in control. Hard to tell at the moment if that’s true, but so long as he’s able to airlift in mercenaries, it’s not far-fetched. Especially since he appears to have Tripoli mostly under control again too.

Two clips for you here. The second purports to be cell-phone footage of today’s attack on Zawiyah, but there’s no way to tell that either. It was uploaded this morning but Libya’s Internet supposedly went offline yesterday, so take it with a grain of salt. (It’s graphic in spots, needless to say, so please observe your official content warning.) The first clip comes from an interview CNN did last night with the new vice president of the rebels’ provisional governing council. Watch to the end and you’ll hear him call, flat out, for a no-fly zone to cut Qaddafi’s mercenary supply route. Which raises the question: Is there any “massacre threshold” the White House has in mind that’ll trigger a NFZ? Clearly we’re not going to intervene just to dislodge Qaddafi, but we’re also not going to sit by while he starts popping off sarin shells at protesters. At some point, at least theoretically, the he’s-gone-too-far line will be crossed. Where is that line? Is it tied to the body count? To the types of weapons used? Or is it tied to “optics”? I.e. if Al Jazeera cameras are on the scene when a truckful of mercenaries rolls up on a crowd and starts spraying bullets, with people dropping left and right, will the world’s revulsion force the White House to spring into action? Because … that’s basically what happened today, and not for the first time. The only missing component was the camera. So again, where’s the line?

Blowback

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I.e. if Al Jazeera cameras are on the scene when a truckful of mercenaries rolls up on a crowd and starts spraying bullets, with people dropping left and right, will the world’s revulsion force the White House to spring into action? Because … that’s basically what happened today, and not for the first time. The only missing component was the camera. So again, where’s the line?

I honestly cannot conceive of a provocation great enough to induce this administration to take military action. My God, the Mexican drug cartels have pretty much been given carte blanche to slaughter our own civilians and law enforcement personnel in our own backyard.

We have ships right there in the Med. The Enterprise can get there within a few days, right off the coast in international waters if/when they get through the Suez.

We have and can have assets right there – not flown from CONUS via some circuitous route like in ’86.

As I said last week in another comment. RESOLVE is the issue. Are we willing to shoot down Libyan (or aircraft supporting QDaffy’s effort) inside a no-fly zone? Are we willing to take out ground sites – radar, anti-aircraft, fuel depots, etc – to enforce or even begin any kind of NFZ that actually means something?

What a shameful and dangerous President.
These are the moments when you do something- both for your own interest and the worlds.
What does Obama think is going to happen if Ghaddafi prevails?
Status quo?
It is a time for choosing- and Barry apparently takes the psychotic killer.

We have ships right there in the Med. The Enterprise can get there within a few days, right off the coast in international waters if/when they get through the Suez.

We have and can have assets right there – not flown from CONUS via some circuitous route like in ’86.

As I said last week in another comment. RESOLVE is the issue. Are we willing to shoot down Libyan (or aircraft supporting QDaffy’s effort) inside a no-fly zone? Are we willing to take out ground sites – radar, anti-aircraft, fuel depots, etc – to enforce or even begin any kind of NFZ that actually means something?

I honestly don’t think Obama has the stones.

catmman on March 4, 2011 at 4:26 PM

All those countries listed have ships and planes there. Now.

In fact, we’ll probably use facilities in some of those countries to stage any military mission.

The question remains: Where’s the European Union and its arsenal of highly trained soldiers and billion dollar air forces?

They’re hiding at home, hoping they don’t seem too anti-Muslim in all this.

Ebb and flow. Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, rise up, then something similar replaces the old regime. Tenuous, uncertain, a state of flux. We hope the powers that be will help these poor people. But Obama does nothing to guide them to a better future. He doesn’t want to be blamed if it goes bad. It’s all about him, and his public image. It’s pitiful.

Will Qaddafi use whatever means necessary to stay in power? Would he gas his own citizens like Hussein? Does he have chemical weapons? I would suspect the answer is yes but if we aren’t sure what can we do? Shouldn’t we already know if he has these weapons or not?

At some point, at least theoretically, the he’s-gone-too-far line will be crossed.

Wanna bet? Obama doesn’t want to initiate any firing on “his people.” He resigned himself to continuing the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan because he can blame that on Bush. Here, he’s infinitely impressed with his own ability to reason with Qaddafi.

Case in point for like-mindedness:

30 people or more? that’s it, we need to start another war immediately.

sesquipedalian on March 4, 2011 at 4:38 PM

Not only can Obama not answer the 3 am call, but he also cannot answer the 3 pm call.

moral of the stroy never elect a senator that has no personal history and no record other than as a community-organizin’ huckster whose longstanding confidants included the likes of Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers.

I mentioned this on the other Libya thread, as well, so I’m repeating myself. This article was written last June. I can only imagine the sense of satisfaction its author must feel in having his theories borne out so thoroughly.

The characteristic aspects of Mr. Obama’s new foreign policy in action might fairly be described as: (1) a refusal to assert American will, which leads to (2) an American policy that is described but not implemented by force and, thus, (3) acquiescence to the assertion of will by other nations or forces.

It’s a civil war. Combatants on either side get massacred. So, are we to step in only if anti-Qaddafi forces are the ones slaughtered? Is Obama qualified to determine which Libyan lives are worth more than others?

Let Libyans sort this out for themselves, with or without the help of their allies. The United States is not their ally like France was ours during the AmRev.

I won’t disagree, however, that the use of unconventional weapons is a bright line.

what if the no-fly zone is not enough to guarantee a rebel victory? will we introduce ground troops then? who are the rebels anyway? do you even care? – sesquipedalian on March 4, 2011 at 4:48 PM

All good questions. I am a bit tired of the world dialing 911, always calling the United States to fix the problem. Then we get spat upon. Perhaps the French, Spanish and Italians can do some heavy lifting for a change.

All good questions. I am a bit tired of the world dialing 911, always calling the United States to fix the problem. Then we get spat upon. Perhaps the French, Spanish and Italians can do some heavy lifting for a change.

SC.Charlie on March 4, 2011 at 5:02 PM

They should make the offer of support official “This time , we want a thank you”.

Where the hell is Code Stink and their human shields?? Come on skanks, do your job. What? They only protest American involvement in war and death? My bad. Move along, people. Nothing to see here. Ignore the man behind the curtain.

There is no way we can win ~anything~ in a military involvement. No matter what we do, we will be wrong and vilified, including if we sit it out. We don’t REALLY know who the good guys are.

This one pushes some of our hot buttons, with words like freedom, justice, democracy… But innocent people get killed and abused all over the world, and we have blown it off, or felt our disapproval was enough. Why would Libya matter more than Burma, Darfur, N. Korea, several African countries, or even Central or South American ones?

Genesis 16:12 And he shall be as a wild ass among men; his hand shall be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his brethren

Ishmael and his offspring have done a magnificant job of fulfilling God’s prophecy. They’ve done much and continue to do much for civilization /s
God will use them to castigate the USA and Obama will be an enabler. Have mercy on us.

If they want a no-fly zone why don’t they call Saudi Arabia or Egypt. They both have large air forces and a vested interest. We help, we bleed, we die, we go into further debt and then we are vilified and lambasted internationally. I’m not an isolationist by any means, however, beyond maybe providing AWAC support to Arab nation aircraft enforcing a no-fly zone, we don’t need to be involved in yet another Middle East boondoggle.

For the life of me, I can’t understand why you’re framing this crap going on in the M.E. as somethng that America should be getting involved in. Bullhockey!
Its their country, their dictator and THEIR F’IN PROBLEM. NOT ours!
We are not the world Police, and frankly, aside from just feeling badly for the Libyans who are dying, only to see just another Islamic Ruler replace this one if they win (Animal Farm) – I really just couldn’t care less.
Not a SINGLE American should die for this nonsense, and not a single American dollar should be spent on it either.
Want to see it get “fixed”? Let the other Islamic Kingdoms take care of their own.

I’ve long been wishing for Israel and the Palis to both unleash their held-back weaponry and render the entire !@#%^& region uninhabitable by human life. It would shut up all the Zionist wannabes and put an end to the pathetic charade of ‘peace’ between the two…