Update (1) on 6/2/10 3AM EST on Israel’s charge that Turkey’s support for the flotilla is due to Turkey’s move from secularism to radical Islam

I would appreciate everyone’s help in spreading this information. Cross-posts are best as they increase the “authority” of the article and give it a better chance to show up in internet search. Pls use facebook share, DIGG, reddit, stumbleupon, simple email, or whatever online means you have to get the word out.

For some background, when I started putting this post together, I had a very difficult time cobbling the facts together. They are spread out far and thin, and make it very difficult to respond to the organized Israeli propaganda machine. So, do your bit. Share, forward and discuss!

With the cold-blooded killings of several passengers (reported casualties in the range of 9 to 19, but as this Wiki entry shows, no one really knows exact count due to Israel’s media blackout!) on one of the Freedom Flotilla ships, Israel cannot escape the public relations disaster that this is turning out to be. There is little doubt that brand “Israel” is now probably one that most loathed and hated brands in the world. While brand “Islam” has been taking a beating due to a combination of the actions of some of its adherents and more so by the systematic campaign by the Israeli Lobby and its right-wing allies in the West, brand Israel has been given the proverbial shot in its arm by this curiously botched action.

Thus, the massive Israel PR machine is in full-swing: media manipulation and lies will be spread by Israel via a massive blitz, not necessarily coordinated, but well thought-out and played out (practice makes perfect). This will result from a combination of speeches by Israeli government officials, government lobbyists and other arms of the Israel Lobby especially AIPAC and ADL, op-ed pieces and letters to the editor in newspapers, as well as a multitude of online foot-soldiers that will patrol (troll) blogs, news sites and every online hole where they can deposit misinformation. In order to remind us again of how this sophisticated media operation plays out, please revisit the video below that has no equals in terms of objectivity and professionalism. Remember, everything that the Israel Lobby is doing in its PR efforts is perfectly legal and constitutionally protected. The Lobby is doing what it is designed to do, protecting its interests. What we need to do is to learn from their ways, and promote ours, especially in this case where the high moral ground lies with the Flotilla and the people of Gaza. Let’s not lose our ground this time!

In order to counter the myths and half-truths that will be spread by the Lobby’s minions, we will be collecting Israeli falsehoods and their responses in a list here. Feel free to offer more in the comments, and I’ll keep updating this list:

FACT CHECK

Weapons On Board the Flotilla

Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon said Monday morning that the pro-Palestinian activists on the flotilla sailing to the Gaza Strip were carrying weapons on board [Source]

RESPONSE: Nothing could be further from truth. The ships had discharged from Turkey after the government checked for weapons. Forget the Turkish claims; common sense dictates that symbolism of peaceful resistance that the flotilla mission was engaging in would not allow the presence of weapons. Finally, the video released by the IDF itself shows that those on board were using miscellaneous items to fight off the soldiers (pirates), not any arms.

“Allegations that there were weapons aboard the Turkish ship are baseless,” Fevzi Gulcan, the head of customs at the Mediterranean port city of Antalya, said on Monday. He added that passengers had been allowed to board the Mavi Marmara ship after they were searched and scanned via X-Ray, the Anatolia news agency reported.” [Source]

Israel Acted in Self-Defense

“Israel, though, insists its forces fired in self-defense. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says they had to “defend their lives, or they would have been killed.” [Source]

RESPONSE:Like all the “self-defense” claims that Israel as one of the world’s mightiest military power makes against kids with stones, this one doesn’t fly either. See the video below released by none other than the IDF. Let’s assume for argument’s sake, that the NGO participants on board the ship started the altercation. As an illustration of the hollowness of the self-defense argument, let’s assume my neighbor comes to my house and kicks and punches me. I am in full military fatigue, I have all the weapons, while my neighbor is employing his boots to the best of his ability. In return, I take him and his family out. What would the court say to my self-defense argument?

3. The exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized in Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations is subject to the conditions and limitations laid down in the Charter, and arising from general international law,including in particular the principles of necessity and proportionality.

4. The principles of necessity and proportionality apply equally to armed conflict at sea and require that the conduct of hostilities by a State should not exceed the degree and kind of force, not otherwise prohibited by the law of armed conflict, required to repel an armed attack against it and to restore its security.

Israel’s “Proof” of Self-Defense — the Proverbial Foot in its own Mouth:

Robin Churchill, a professor of international law at the University of Dundee in Scotland, said the Israeli commandos boarded the ship outside of Israel’s territorial waters. “As far as I can see, there is no legal basis for boarding these ships,” Churchill said. Also, a group of lawyers in Israel have petitioned the High Court, charging that Israel had violated the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea by capturing the boats in international waters.

Under the same San Remo manual, Part II, Section I, hostile actions are forbidden on neutral waters, and clearly the Israeli action took place in international waters by all accounts:

14. Neutral waters consist of the internal waters, territorial sea, and, where applicable, the archipelagic waters, of neutral States. Neutral airspace consists of the airspace over neutral waters and the land territory of neutral States.

15. Within and over neutral waters, including neutral waters comprising an international strait and waters in which the right of archipelagic sea lanes passage may be exercised, hostile actions by belligerent forces are forbidden. A neutral State must take such measures as are consistent with Section II of this Part, including the exercise of surveillance, as the means at its disposal allow, to prevent the violation of its neutrality by belligerent forces.

Furthermore under Section V, Line 67, Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked. Clearly the flotilla flying the flags of Greece and Turkey fall under this category. The exceptions to this default state include “reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade… engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy” and a bunch of other categories where there is clearly an “enemy” involved. While Israel may state that the ships were breaching a blockade, this argument is patently false, since the blockade itself is illegal and not approved by the international community.

But there is even further qualification, by exemptions for certain type of vessels, under Section IV,

Flotilla Organizers Have Ties to Al Qaeda

“Before the flotilla entered Israeli waters, rumor had it that the organizers [of the aid initiative] had links with the al Qaeda terrorist network,” Arthur Avnon was quoted as saying on the website of public broadcaster DR. [Source]

RESPONSE:“Rumor has it”… Rumor? Are we now going to depend on rumors? Desperation? Here Israel is using, once again, the Islam vs. the West “clash of civilization” fear-mongering approach. Increasing Islamophobia has been a strategic goal of the Israel Lobby. As long as Westerners are afraid of Muslims (=Palestinians), Israel will always be justified in all its ruthless actions to subdue the uncivilized Muslim populace. Ever since 9/11, Israel has made great pains in equating the terrorists with Palestinians fighting occupation. The great differences between the two situations conveniently escapes Israel, but it has still been effective at making this case. No surprise when many Americans still think Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11.

The response is actually quite simple. Al-Qaeda is a caustic entity, besides being a terrorist outfit. No cause would want connections to this organization as it will instantly digress from any positive message. Thus, not only is it unreasonable, but it would be foolish to include Al-Qaeda. Furthermore, since when did Al-Qaeda tactics shift from terrorism to unarmed humanitarian efforts? Let’s review the list of notable personalities on board. Would they even remotely risk being tied to Al-Qaeda? The list includes newspaper journalists, members and former members of EU states governments, a member of the Israeli Knesset (!), Swedish historians and artists, actors, a survivor of the USS Liberty, former United States Ambassador and more. See the entire “Al-Qaeda’s Who’s Who List” on Wikipedia.

[NEW!] Turkey’s Support is Motivated by the Nation’s Move to Radical Islam

But it is part of a broader trend in which Erdogan has been gradually steering his country away from a secular-based democracy toward radical Islam. [Source]

RESPONSE:Here Israel is again using the “radical Islam”/ “clash of civilization” bogeyman to paint Turkey’s action as motivated by radical Islam. The truth is actually quite the opposite. If being ruled by a few generals is what Israel considers democracy and a government elected by people is not, then that highlights what the real issue Israel has with Turkey. Just like Israel didn’t quite like the democratic elections in Palestine that produced a Gaza government, it similarly doesn’t like a Turkish government because Turkey to keep Israel honest to its international responsibilities; no longer can few generals overrule the will of the people and toe Israel’s line. There can be no doubt that Turkey’s government is far more democratic than ever before. As EU Term President Spain’s Ambassador to Ankara Joan Clos stated, “Turkey is now going through a process of adaptation to the new reality of a prevalence of the civilian government over the military authorities”.

Not only did Israel get the democracy spin wrong, it also deliberately ignores the fact that support for Gaza has widespread support among ALL sectors of the Turkish population, even the ardent secularists:

“I don’t know what kind of relationship can remain after this,” said Mustafa Akyol, a prominent Turkish columnist and author. “This is every Turk I know — Islamists, secularists, nationalists, everybody. People are enraged.” [Source]

Suna notes that anti-Israeli feeling is not at all unique to religious Turks. Even completely secularist, Islamist-hating Turks have a real problem with Israel, she says, and tend to believe Israelis and the Jewish lobby in the US to be at the bottom of most world ills. [Source]

No Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza

On a related note, since this flotilla was after all meant to highlight the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Avigdor Lieberman, Israel’s foreign minister reminded reporters recently “there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza” [Source].

RESPONSE: This is a lie (=disinformation) in so many ways that it boggles the mind that someone can even make this claim:

fact is that “peaceactivists” started this sad incident by attacking first against Israeli troops. Ask first why this ship couldnt go to Ashdod and use the way which is leagal? Ask then why there in ship were so many foreigners? Okay, foreigners were there to give good mediacoverage if something happens and this whole case was for propaganda purposes.

Old case where Ismael is against Isaac is still working. Read Bible and you know what God is telling you to do. God is love, not dictator asking you to kill jews or fellow muslims like Hamas is doing in Gaza. We Christians are praying for Free Gaza, so that people gets out of slavery of Hamas. If you love Palestinians, stop supporting them who want to kill Jews and Israeli arabs and Palestinians in Gaza.

If here is even one smart, please pray for Jesus to come into your heart and ask Jesus to set you free from bondage of hatred.

Hank, as a Christian, do you think Jesus (peace be upon him) would have supported Israel’s collective punishment of millions in Gaza? Do you think he would have supported a massacre (even if we assume that Hamas instigated it though we all know it is because of the punishing blockade)? What about turning the other cheek? Isn’t that a “Christian thing”?

Hamas’s charter has as many problems as Likud’s. But both were elected by their people, so why does the world only respect one nation’s decision?

We love Jesus, and we know Jesus would have never come down on the side of the oppressors, the terrorist state of Israel. The ENTIRE world except a few know this. Talk to the Catholics in Europe and their “love” for Israeli policies. They are also Christians but they are not brainwashed by the American media.

I am Christian, not Catholic, not living in Usa. I live in Europe. All I know is that if we can forgive each others, and we can love each others, peace will come. What you think will happen if Hamas leaders calls to Israel and makes an offer that they will come to Jerusalem to make real peace, where both sides says that violence is enough now? And they hack each other and says: “Forgive us”? Would it change the atmosphere?

Look, Gaza is nice place with nice seaview. What a oppportinity to make just great tourismplace and have lots of money and work for poor people. I would be the first one to stay there for a one week if real peace will come some day. There are lots of history, lots of beaches, not too far from Europe. Why not to stop that grazy war and start to do something good for those lovely kids?

I dont understand this, sorry.

I want to say every muslim that I love you all, Jesus loves you all, but we both hate war, we both hate violence. I wish you get peace into you heart first, and then it comes to your country you are wishing.

I dont belive that fighting will bring peace. Peace comes when both sides loves and respects each other. I dont belive that fighting will bring food. Food comes when you start to grow vegetables, fruits, meat, grain… And money comes when you stop fighting for then people will come and stay in Gaza as tourist.

Amir, you know very well that as Christian I cannot go to Gaza. I know many Christians been executed by Hamas. You are muslims and your book Quran tells you that hate Jews and Christians. Jesus said to me that I have to love my enemy, and love my neighbour like myself. Jesus is real hero, He died for us without resistance against them who killed him. Now you say that there in Gaza is many Christians, sure, as long they support Hamas and spread their message to people in the rest of the world. I wont do that, so I cannot go to Gaza.

Bro, can you please tell us where in the Quran it tells muslims to hate Christians and Jews?

I am a Pakistani and a non-arab but I can read Arabic and do not need a translation to understand the Quran. I can read it as it was revealed by the Almighty. So, I would really like to know what information you base that claim on?

I’ll tell you the general rule. We are allowed to hate the deed, not the doer. So, we aren’t even allowed to hate Christians/Jews, let alone being instructed to do so.

Hello Nauman, I read Quran in english but have no interest to copy/paste verses to you. I tried to find simple webpage where is basic information for your question. Look here:

*REMOVED*

I also understan who to read Quran, there are two different periods in Muhammads life. First, time when he and his followers were week, and time when Muhammad and his followers were strong. Message from first period is different than second period. And there is houses like Dar-el-Harb, Dar-es-Salam… I as a Christian from muslims point of few are in House of War, and you in a House of Peace.

Sure there is differences between sunnis and shias, but Quran itself is quite clear with its message about Christians.

I say to you that Jesus said to us, that we have to love everyone, we have no right to kill or torch anybody, even they arent Christians.

Luke 6:27-36

[27] “But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you. [32] “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full. [35] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Matthew 52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

The islamophobic link to a site that is full of hate and propaganda and lies has been removed.

If you think you are getting facts from this hate-site, I suggest you look up the official KKK site for facts on black Americans. Your knowledge of dar ul harb and dar ul salam is so warped that I wouldn’t know even where to start. But that is not surprising considering where you get your info. from.

If you are REALLY serious about learning the truth, go talk to Muslims. Until then, pls refrain from passing on islamophobic “facts” as truth. We love Jesus more than you can ever, because we actually follow what he asked his people to do: worship His Lord alone, not him.

Okay, how about those verses in Quran which asks a muslim to kill Jews?

And would you tell me why a muslim woman cant marry a Christian or a Jew? Only muslim man has that right. And if muslim man get married with a Christian or a Jew, and they get children, those children are muslims and allways belongs to father. Quite friendly, you think so?

Your Hadith says this:
“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.”

First you talk about Christians and Jews. Then, in the middle of the argument, you shift to men versus women. If I didn’t know any better, I would think that you just want to find anything that you can use against Islam.

By the way, I’m sure you’ve studied a lot on all three religions and if so, you’d know that these questions are not new. They are ages old and there are answers from muslim regarding these questions. If you’re not satisfied with the answers, the proper way would be to quote them and say why you find them lacking. Right now, your claims just seem uneducated.

About the second claim about war with Jews: Do you understand the difference between news and order? Can you see which one you’re referring to here?

And about your last sentence: I haven’t accused you of anything. I’ve been as civil as I know how. And here you go implying that I am not being honest with you. Please read my comments again and see if I’ve made any claim without logical argument. Keep an open mind and maybe you will see the right path. Wish you the best of luck.

I will keep it brief: All the verses quoted on the link you sent are irrelevant because they’re not talking about hating jews and christians. They’re talking about not befriending them. There’s a difference. I don’t call the admin of this page my friend. Doesn’t mean I hate him. The person living next door to my house isn’t a friend. Doesn’t mean I hate him. I don’t like the way my boss approaches business ethics and I really don’t want to be his friend. Doesn’t mean I hate him. I hate what he does. Again, hate the deed, not the doer.

So, the arguments on the page are irrelevant and if you read with an open mind, you’ll notice that they’re grasping at straws. The third-last verse quoted is clear evidence of what I’ve just said. Don’t christians believe that those who do not believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) will not go to heaven? I may be wrong there but I guess that’s the whole point of a religion. If a religion says that everyone is right, what’s the point of following that particular religion. It says itself that you can follow anyone. Kind of a contradiction there, don’t you think?

Oh and @Amad, thanks for pointing out the obvious about referring to legitimate sources.

And to be honest it isn’t even about befriending Jews & Christians. I have many good friends among Jews and Christians. This was more referring to as awliyah or protectors. And even that may have some interpretations/explanations.

Think about it. As a convert, your mother, father, siblings may all be Christians or Jews. Or your wife may be a Christian or Jew. Could you really live without having them as your “friends”? Or loving them as humans? There is difference between the love for the sake of deen, and the human love.

I just didnâ€™t think Iâ€™d be able to explain the difference between the semantics of the word â€˜friendshipâ€™ as Quran uses it and as the modern casual usage defines it. So, I just explained what I could.

Just as thereâ€™s a difference between â€˜loveâ€™ for Allah and his Prophet (sallaho-alaihe wasallam) and love for another human, thereâ€™s a difference between friendship for the sake of Allah and friendship in the casual sense of the word. Donâ€™t think I can explain it any better without writing an article. Iâ€™m not that good with words.

Exactly the kind of writing that’s needed from Muslims in the media… backed up with evidence and clear. JazaakAllah. Meanwhile, we have our own houses to set in order too, Inshaa’Allah… returning to the Qur’an and Sunnah, bettering ourselves as Muslims and servants of Allah(swt). No two ways about it!

Here’s a little excerpt I read on Huffington Post that is absolutely ridiculous. > A soldier identified only as a sergeant told reporters at a military briefing that the activists on board “were armed with knives, scissors, pepper spray and guns.” He said he was armed only with a paintball rifle. “It was a civilian paintball gun that any 12-year-old can play with,” he said. “I saw my friends on the deck spitting blood.” <

Jewish state-sponsored terrorism continues unabted, aided and abeted by its political slaves in Washington and EU et al. Tel Aviv understands it is above all int’l law and conventions and thus its momentum for bloodshed is never far.

It is massacres like these that begs the question whether Israel indeed has a right to exist if it continues to act with open disregard for human lives and human rights!

Great work dispelling the myths being spread. Is it possible to get a list of all the people on-board? It would really help show that these people were not terrorists but reputed people of their nations.

i’m not surprised!
I thought from the beginning that the flotilla raid was just a stunt to distract us from what’s really going on in the background.
Some other poster mentioned before that this is strange!

I think there is some reason why Israel shot themselves so obviously in the foot

thank you for this article. after reading some of the propaganda drivel in articles from news sources in the u.s., i was looking for something factual to refute the israeli claims. seeing that the u.s. media swallows whole all of the lies coming from the israelis, this is much needed. who can seriously believe what comes out of israel when that country has shut off contact with the people involved to the outside press and will not open itself to an outside and impartial investigation from other nations?

am linking to this article and hoping to help spread something to fight the israeli propaganda. thank you again.

I am embarrassed to live in this country. We are guilty of obstruction of justice so many times over that it is not surprising other countries view us with disdain. We enable so much murder and ignore so much wrongdoing.

I find it ridiculous that out of all the video I’m sure the army took, and all the communications media seized illegally from the activists, that the best they can do to justify their murders is to release a 30 second highly edited clip of propaganda. That’s the best they can do? You murder 10 people, and you confiscate all evidence, and somehow can’t show the beginning of the confrontation?

Israel detained everyone long enough for them to put out the only available account of the situation. They had 2 full days before people started getting released, and every single person released claims Israel fired on them from the sky, completely contradicting the Israeli story. Greek, Turk, British, AN ISRAELI POLITICIAN, every single person released has disputed the Israeli line.

Before raiding the ship, they jammed all communications. And then when they took the ship, they seized all electronics. They took all possible evidence people had of the beginning of the attack. It is probably already destroyed. The stole the camera of an Italian who was trying to document everything. So much evidence exists, but Israel releases 30 seconds and that is the official story. Why not release the footage if will exonerate you? Why suppress all evidence?

This is why we need an independent investigation. It is our only chance of getting ahold of that footage, because without it, the plants will just keep saying :”But we have all the evidence”, and that excuse will be enough for stupid people who don’t think “Yeah, because you stole all of the incriminating evidence and destroyed it”.

How are people here so much dumber than the rest of the world? Every other country news report I see has a deep discussion in the comments, always resulting in the nationals obliterating the propaganda voices, but all coverage in this country is slanded 100% in the opposite direction. People are being fed their opinion, and happily accepting it. It saddens me so much that this country is so full of hate and ignorance. We are getting people killed by enabling Israel.

We give them aid so they can buy off our politicians. They take OUR money, and use Israel to launder it so it becomes THEIR money. I think that’s the only real use they serve to this country. We veto all UN resolutions pertaining to Israel, and they launder our money using AIPAC.

First of all thank u for your efforts, there’s one point though i thought is important to tackle:
In response to:

“exemptions for certain type of vessels, under Section IV,
136. The following vessels are exempt from capture:
(ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable o the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations”;

The Zionists could use a continuation of this article as an excuse to capture the vessel as follows:

Conditions of exemption:

48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and
(c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.

Easy.
Line 48 is under “SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK”. So, this section applies only to enemy vessels, i.e. IF these vessels were enemy vessels (and even Israel admits they were of neutral states), THEN they would be exempt under conditions listed in #48.

In other words, this section does not apply. It’s irrelevant.

Also, we have to remember that the hasbara has lots of legal folks working the details. If you get into a discussion with any or get on the radio with any, don’t get dragged into it. Rather, it is enough to mention that many countries have already said it is illegal and EVEN Israeli lawyers have filed a complaint against its legality in Israel’s supreme court.

Jazaka Allahu Kairen for the article. MashAllah it was full of facts and clear evidence. May you continue the great work and may Allah unite and awaken the Muslim Ummah, Ameen!!

One way or another, the world is now seeying the atrocities of this unhuman country and the world is getting tired of it. The truth will prevail and the real oppressor will show its colors. We already know it but it will be more evidend for the ones who refuse to believe that Israel is an oppressor!!!

1.Name one Islamic country that has never used terror and genocide as a means to gaining and maintaining power.
2.The IDF asked that the ships stop and be inspected for war material which was refused.
3.Israel promised to deliver all humanitarian aid supplies to Gaza, as they have been doing all along.
4. The IDF soldiers who boarded the ship were lightly armed, as wouls be expected but did not start out with weapons drawn.
5.The ‘freedom fighters’ on board the ship were also well armed and jumped at the chance to attack the soldiers, as was their intent from the beginning.
6.Most other countries refused to sponsor the flotilla because they understood its intent was provocation.
7.Turkey, of all countries, should consider its own murderous history before condemning another.
8.If they really wanted to deliver supplies, they could have gone through Egypt…no, Egypt has also closed its borders to their Palestinian brothers.
8.None of the other Arab/Moslem countries have done anything to actually help the Palestinian people, only the terrorist part of the population…they all want the crisis to continue.
9.No country on the face of the earth would allow UNinspected cargo to be delivered to a sworn enemy.
10.Not to deminish the importance of the Middle East turmoil. the U.N. might take a its sights off Israel long enough to notice terror being foisted upon innocent in many other parts of the world.

1. red herring
2. None of their concern, especially in international waters.
3. are you serious? surely you are joking?
4. The video aired by Russia Today and statements from the German politician contradict this
5. You call wooden sticks well armed? Especially against live ammo?
6. Your own spin.
7. Another red herring.
8. Reoccuring theme, red herring.
9. Israel should not affair in other nation’s affairs.
10. More red herrings! Oh my!

While I totally agree with your response to “dprosenthal”, I pray that Allah guides you in understanding… the events of of the past 48 hours are nowhere the collective fault of Jews; rather, it is the horrid right-wing government of Israel under “Bibi”.

To amad: great factbox! The Washington Post has published an article highlighting the various international law positions relevant to sad incident (while its editorial board once again tows the conservative, hawkish position).

Peace and greetings to everyone. Let us approach this incident with reason and not by emotion and partiality. No doubt Israel violated the rules of engagement in international waters. The organizers could have just welcomed those soldiers and let them look for what they want. There are journalists onboard they can capture there activities while they do inspections. Letting emotion rule over our head aggravated the already volatile situation. Obviously, no matter what we will say the soldiers were provoked by the violent action initiated by some of the members of the aid group. We should look and treat things with all fairness. People died not because the soldiers boarded their ships.

Gina, let us approach this incident with reason. Israel had no right or reason to intercept the ships nor inspect them. In international waters Israel has no authority over those ships so even to ask to search the ships and inspect them is outrageous. How would you like it if a random person went to inspect your house without a warrant, and you didn’t open so he broke in and killed some members of your family? In all fairness, this incident is nothing but one in a long history of Israel’s disregard for human life and its value.

Israel had absolutely no authority to board those ships, and there’s a reason why the Israeli’s decided to attack them on international waters, they thought long and hard about their course of action.

This isn’t about following rules of engagement, this is about Israel wishing to show the world its ruthlessness in destroying those who dare challenge them, its a psychological attack taken right out of the art of war, to make sure people think twice when messing with them.

Please try to see this situation as objectively as possible, and try not to create double-standards for oppression.

Also, if they had waited for the ships to enter “Israeli” waters, it would have been light, and people may have gotten decent footage of the attack. Suppressing evidence was the reason for violating international law. They needed to take on the flotilla at night.

1. So you are admitting Israel is using terror and genocide as means to gaining and maintaining power.
2. The IDF has no right to do so
3. Thanks, who are they to dictate how to deliver aid
4. Ok, so only 10 people died, as they did not board with nuclear arms
5. I am surprised they did not manage to kill anyone, I am assuming hence they were not armed, but it would have been nice if they were to resist illegal force.
6. It was indeed meant to show how Israel blockade of gaza is illegal.
7. Again thanks for admitting Israel murderous present.
8. Terrorist part of the population = all Palestinians for resisting occupation
9. Right so its all out war
10. Right, Israel terrorism should not go unnoticed

1. Name one country that is in violation of UN resolutions more than Israel?
2. Name one country that takes out citizens of another country in yet another country, using passports of friendly nations (killing of Hamas person in Dubai using passports of Europe and Australia)
3. Name one country that is punishing a population of millions by besieging it for 4 years
4. Name one country that has given impetus and propaganda to more terrorists than Israel (every radical terrorist who professes the muslim faith has stated Israel’s oppression as being front and center of their grievances)
5. Name one country that allows people of a certain faith (Jews) to immigrate to it from anywhere in the world but yet forbids people of other faiths (Christians/Muslims) who belong to the land to be refugees all over the world.

As Glenn Greenwald points out, this seems like a joke, but it’s actually true. The Obama Administration has joined the call for an “impartial investigation” and such a resolution has passed the UN security council.

We have to remember what AIPAC must be doing at this time… probably calling for Congress to pass a resolution affirming Israel’s right to self-defense (in essence justifying its actions). And they’ll probably get it by a veto-proof margin. That is the problem here. The Executive branch is pretty much handcuffed by the Legislative in an area which s usually the President’s. So Obama has to avoid being embarrassed by his own legislative body! Even if he grows the ba**s to do it, they will be chopped off immediately. Israel Lobby… the 3 million pound gorilla.

I have updated that part of the post. This is actual another part of the hasbara campaign. Anyone who says 19 (as happened to me on dailykos) is being accused of inflating. While in fact if you google “19 killed on flotilla”, you will find tons of news organizations that reported that number.

The issues is NO ONE really knows EXCEPT the terrorist state of Israel. The media blackout means that civilian casualties may never be know esp. if they disperse all the bodies quietly and secretly to individual families.

I applaud your effort on this fact-box, but I have reservations. You mention that this fact-box should be sued to dispel the Pro-Israeli/Right-wing media propaganda, yet you unilaterally criticize the state of Israel. When did Israel, on its wholesome, become a terrorist state? The events of the past 72 hours are the result of the current right-wing, governing coalition in Israel and not the result of the entire nation. Leftist, centrists, and peace-loving Israelis have come out against this raid. It will be them who will uphold any future peace agreement with the Palestinians, not the Likud backers or the occupying settlers.

PakistanMD: I hear you and I absolutely agree that there are tons of peace-loving Israelis out there. IN fact, some of the most articulate and sincere brokers for peace are in Israel, some of whom who write for Haaretz.

The point is that I am NOT talking about them, I am talking about the State, the government. Because this government is elected by a majority of Israelis, then one can safely assume that a majority support its government’s terrorist policies. Even on the flotilla, Israel had wide support for its actions from its population. The State of Israel has been terrorizing Palestinians almost since inception. That is a fact. Just like the USA is turning a blind eye towards Israel’s terrorism, we do not blame all Americans for it. It is bad government policies and in the case of US, guided by the Israeli Lobby. Note though that unlike Israel, the majority of Americans have come out strongly against this flotilla killings. One just has to read comments online on blogs and opeds to see how the tide is turning SURELY against Israel, alhamdulilah.

Separate the state from the people. I think you are mixing the two in your comment.

Let’s not forget that the ships are in international waters, yet the arrogant and blood-thirsty zionist Jews do not care to respect international laws and convention. Its pointless showing doctored videos of peace activists’ reaction to what is an illegal and deliberate act of sabotage by the zionist terrorists.

I may not be able to add much in terms of providing you with further ammo on your write up, at this point. However I feel the need to say that you make us proud.

We the muslims, especially at this juncture need to fight with a combined mental strength as opposed to physical /violent protests which just end up putting us in further negativity. We need to get our facts straight and be able to respond to the media mind game which they keep using against us.

We need to speak in their language to get their attention and I believe you are doing one hell of a job.

This responses I’ve read above are a part of larger problem. You guys need that to realize that this isn’t Muslims vs. Israel – i.e. this isn’t a religious war. This is political, and the only way to make headway in a political discussion is to leave biasing factors like religion and race out of it.

That said, this was a good read, and except for the fact that this site – given it’s domain name and theme – screams anti-Israeli bias, I would spread this like AIDS in Africa.

Alphinco, while I agree that this is a political/land problem, however as Muslims we can’t see oppression and injustice happening to a group of people (regardless of their race, religion…) and stay quiet about it. Also the fact that Israel is a jewish state does throw a religious spin on the issue.

I at the exact moment lack words to express myself… I’d like to know if there is a direct link for the Video which will allow me to download it.. I’d like to show it in my school so that others can know the Truth… Ofcourse all sources shall be cited and Full credit given to those who have made it…

Avital Leibovich, an Israeli military spokeswoman, confirmed that the attack took place in international waters, saying: “This happened in waters outside of Israeli territory, but we have the right to defend ourselves.”

On the fact that the people on board the ship were checked for weapons through X-Ray machines:

According to Dmitri Plionis, a Greek activist, in this news report carried on PressTV, approximately at the 1:25 mark, he confirms that the baggage of all the members abroad the ship went through X-Rays at customs in Turkey

As a side-bar to this video, Peter Venner, a British activist seen at the beginning of this video, apparently took his shahadah just before and while on the flotilla. I have that story from one authority but it has to be corroborated. May Allah bless him and guide him regardless! Allahu Akbar!

Norman Paech, former member of German’s government, confirmed that the activists did not have weapons and saw only three activists resisting

Thank you very much Miguel. Appreciate the updates.
For the weapon issue, what we have been hearing is that Israel has found no arms as the unload the flotillas. Not that they would be credible if they suddenly found some, but the fact that they are not, is even more confirmation.
Furthermore, all the reports of commandos being fired at specifically mention that the activists got hold of Israeli guns.

Henning Mankell, the Swedish mystery writer and one of Europe’s best-selling authors, told his national media that there had been no weapons on board and called for international isolation akin to the measures taken against apartheid South Africa in the 1980s.

“I think we should use the experience of South Africa, where we know that the sanctions had a great impact. It took time, but they had an impact,” he said. “I can promise there was not a single weapon aboard the ships.”

German far-left MP Annette Groth, held a press conference describing the weapons used against her colleagues.

“They were shooting without warning,” she said. “It was like war …They had guns, Taser weapons, some type of teargas and other weaponry, compared to two-and-a-half wooden sticks we had between us. To talk of self-defence is ridiculous.”

In Brussels on Tuesday, Luxembourg centre-left MEP Robert Goebbels specifically addressed the question of the Israeli video that has been released.

“There were no arms aboard these boats, because they had been inspected when they left Greece by the greek authorities, then later by the Cypriot authorities,” he said.

“I’ve seen the vdeo by the Israeli army that shows combat scenes with iron bars and rods. They used whatever was to hand to repel the soldiers who were attacking their boat in international waters.”

ONLY PROBLEM WAS ON MAVI MARMARA?? WHY THE BEATINGS OF PEOPLE ON THE OTHER BOATS? (see eyewitness links below)

An Israeli diplomat told EUobserver that there had been “no problem with the other five boats in the flotilla, but on the Mavi Marmara, they were prepared for violence. We were outnumbered and certainly did not expect this violent resistance.”

“We are willing to investigate in detail because Israel is a country where the rule of law stands. We will investigate not to please anyone else, but because it is important to us.”

“But we are not happy with what happened. It was an unfortunate result,” he added. “Of course we are sorry for any loss of life.”

THE ISRAELIS CLAIM THEY WERE USING PAINTBALL GUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An Israeli Defence Force captain who participated in the raid, Aria Shaliker, told the BBC that the attacks had started off using paintball guns, not live weapons.

“It is true that the Israeli commander unit … came on board with paintball weapons … in order to disperse [people] if there was violence. They were ready for a violent … demonstration on board the flotilla, especially on the big boat, the Marmara,” he said.

During a second bruising day of debate in Geneva, the 47-member body passed the resolution with a majority vote of 32. The United States voted against the Palestinian-backed document and several European countries abstained.

Apart from the savage/illegal/murderous acts by Isreal, the israeli politicians find themselves in political quagmire and took an extremely miscalculated decision by any political/rational standard to launch such an attack (to which they will pay for severly heavy in the near future and have the deepest regrets of no avail). As their own academia fear, they extremists amongst them are endangering their current and future status by such cowardly provocations.

To their dismay, you find Arabs and other Muslim states start to unify their ranks and take their positions against Israel and even secularists are taking stern positions. Islamists are gaining ground through support of the masses and eventually the politicians through such incidents which could easily turn the tide of history in another direction. There is already a scheduled event to be held in Turkey by the major scholars of Islam along with major Muslim political groups and nations.

We ask our Lord and Creator, The Ever Living, The All Seeing, The All Hearing, The Omnipotent, The Ever Supreme, The All Mighty, to shower His infinite grace and mercy on our brethren and relieve them of their hardship and protect them from their enemies and grant us and them victory over the oppressors and criminals, bring them to account for their heinous crimes, verily oppressors and criminals shall never succeed. ameen.

yeah, you’re right, they should have just let the Israeli soldiers invade their ship (in international waters) and attack them without showing any resistance. How silly of them to try and defend themselves or even prepare to do so, don’t they know that sticks are no match for guns.

Israelis and the press have been trumpeting the resistance on the Mavi Marmara. A news report I found had an unnamed Israeli source stating the only problem was on the Mavi Marmara. Well, if that’s the case, why were other activists attacked and beaten on the other boats?

Israelâ€™s attack on the Gaza-bound aid flotilla on Americaâ€™s Memorial Day was all too predictable, although the form it took surprised even me. And it confirms the old proverb that â€œThose whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad,â€ for the attack was the kind of madness only unbridled arrogance can assume.

It wasnâ€™t just that foreigners as well as Palestinians, flying flags other than that of Palestine, were attacked. Israel has a long history of doing such things, especially to the UN. But except for the USS Liberty incident in 1967, it has generally done that on inland sites â€” Gaza, the West Bank, the Lebanon â€” where it can largely block news and visual evidence, and control the spin it puts on events, counting on its friends in the US and other mainstream media to say little or nothing to contradict them.

The Attack Reprised
Not this time. An attack on the open seas, in acknowledged international waters, against unarmed ships carrying humanitarian aid with passengers and crews from many countries â€” especially a direct attack against a Turkish ship â€” is a different matter, and potentially an explosive one. The number of shipboard casualties indicates that once fighting started, the Israeli commandos simply sprayed automatic weapons fire into the people around them â€” another of their long-standing habits……..

Israel claims its commandos were acting in self-defence. Why then was 19 year old Furkan Dogan, an American & Turkish citizen shot multiple times at close range? The articles below state that he was shot 4 times in the head (his father described a bullet wound on his forehead when he identified his sonâ€™s body) and once in the chest. The Turkish article even says that a witness saw Israeli soldiers shooting Dogan when he was wounded.
Self-defence, eh?

the first one is in English – it’s AbC News’s website. There are many other articles in English on Furkan Dogan on the net.
the second article, however, is in Turkish. The only main difference between the 2 articles is that the Turkish one says that a Kuwaiti activist witnessed Furkan Dogan being shot while he was already wounded. The English article does not make any such claim.

It shows journalists reporting on Israeli commandos firing ammunition, and tear gas from helicopters as the attack was taking place. This was even before they boarded the ship. Several people were killed by live ammunition before the commandos even came on board.

This obliterates Israel’s claims that their soldiers were attacked first and that it was only after the activists ‘attacked’ them that they resorted to using brutal force.

Thanks for sharing.
Israel is pushing its narrative very hard and the American MSM is now FULLY operating under the hasbara narrative.

See this video where the host insinuates every Israeli lie… and then wonders if Free Gaza will “prevent” deaths by turning the 2 remaining ships back? Basically blaming the activists for their own deaths!

What is interesting is that the Israelis use the “self defense” excuse every single time and that is the only thing that they use to refute any argument that is brought against them or the crimes which they have committed. Weird how the “self defense” card haven’t maxed out yet seeing as to how many times it has been used. Any other excuse would have become old and not credible if you have used it that many times.

Here is the complete interview that took her journalism life out of her. Notice the difference in context, when you post of sound bite and this.
funny how this longer clip is now miraculously released. It does give a decidedly different tenor to the exchange than the truncated remark that was seized upon for the purposes of vilification of an American icon.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc4OeRu7cfs

My reading was that because she said Palestine she referred to the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) â€” including East Jerusalem â€” and in that case the illegal settlers, for many of us, should indeed move back to Russia, Poland, Israel â€˜properâ€™ (internationally recognized 1967 borders) and the US. Part of the problem is the ambiguity: was she referring to Palestine as the whole of Israel? She might have but I doubt hers was the maximalist position and I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt unless she indicates otherwise. Nevertheless, for her honest service, Helen Thomas I thank you.

A decent conversation with Professors, mershemier and walt helps understand the in and about the lobbyhere

When you think things can’t be more shocking than what had already happened, think again. The most outrageous thing I have ever heard is what some are suggesting now that those innocent civilian peace activists who were on the flotilla should be prosecuted for attempting to aid and give items to a terrorist organization. Talk about adding insult to injury…