I am still unsure what is going on, but I suspect you have not created the
website correctly as the filesystem namespace has worked correctly through
most versions. We are now on version 2.0 with 2.0.0.186 being the latest.
This version requires ASP .Net 2.0
Version 1.8 requires ASP .Net 1.1, but will work with ASP .Net 2.0.
It is recommended that you run one of the latest builds of 2.0 available
through [1]. That way the community will be able to help you
[1] http://www.flexwiki.com/default.aspx/FlexWiki/GetFlexWiki.html
John Davidson
On Jan 30, 2008 11:44 AM, Glenn Wellington <glenn.wellington@...>
wrote:
> John,
>
> Thanks for your quick response.
>
> The version I'm currently using, I believe, is 1.3 or some other archaic
> version.
>
> I tried creating a new file system namespace and it worked fine. Threw an
> exception for ASP_NET permissions, but it was easy enough to fix. The
> "Namespace Index" comes back as:
> "Test":/wiki/default.aspx/Test/Homepage.html
>
> When I hardcode the SiteURL in the application and recompile it works
> fine, but other than that, the namespace links don't come out right.
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>
> On Jan 30, 2008 11:03 AM, John Davidson <jwdavidson@...> wrote:
>
> > I saw your request for help previously on the FAQ and have started work
> > on an SQL 2005 install for my system.
> >
> > First, though a question and suggested procedure. What version are you
> > using? If you create a namespace in the file system do you get the same
> > error?
> >
> > John Davidson
> >
> > On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 AM, Glenn Wellington <glenn.wellington@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I seem to be having some issues with upgrading to FlexWiki 2.0regarding the "Namespace Index" listing on the left hand border. I'm using
> > > the provided SQL Provider which is working fine (i.e. I can peruse the
> > > different namespaces and topics fine.)
> > >
> > > The left border though comes up funky. For the namespace index, I'm
> > > getting listings of "Sample":/wiki/default.aspx/Sample/Homepage.html instead
> > > of valid wiki links. It seems like the site root URL is never getting
> > > populated. I took a look at the code and it generates from the variable
> > > SiteURL which is populated from
> > > HttpContext.Current.Request.ApplicationPath which doesn't seem to be
> > > returning anything.
> > >
> > > Shouldn't it be using the <rootURL> variable in the flexwiki.config?
> > >
> > > Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > - Glenn
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Flexwiki-users mailing list
> > > Flexwiki-users@...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flexwiki-users mailing list
> > Flexwiki-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
> >
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Flexwiki-users mailing list
> Flexwiki-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
>
>

John,
Thanks for your quick response.
The version I'm currently using, I believe, is 1.3 or some other archaic
version.
I tried creating a new file system namespace and it worked fine. Threw an
exception for ASP_NET permissions, but it was easy enough to fix. The
"Namespace Index" comes back as:
"Test":/wiki/default.aspx/Test/Homepage.html
When I hardcode the SiteURL in the application and recompile it works fine,
but other than that, the namespace links don't come out right.
Thanks,
Glenn
On Jan 30, 2008 11:03 AM, John Davidson <jwdavidson@...> wrote:
> I saw your request for help previously on the FAQ and have started work on
> an SQL 2005 install for my system.
>
> First, though a question and suggested procedure. What version are you
> using? If you create a namespace in the file system do you get the same
> error?
>
> John Davidson
>
> On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 AM, Glenn Wellington <glenn.wellington@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I seem to be having some issues with upgrading to FlexWiki 2.0regarding the "Namespace Index" listing on the left hand border. I'm using
> > the provided SQL Provider which is working fine (i.e. I can peruse the
> > different namespaces and topics fine.)
> >
> > The left border though comes up funky. For the namespace index, I'm
> > getting listings of "Sample":/wiki/default.aspx/Sample/Homepage.html instead
> > of valid wiki links. It seems like the site root URL is never getting
> > populated. I took a look at the code and it generates from the variable
> > SiteURL which is populated from
> > HttpContext.Current.Request.ApplicationPath which doesn't seem to be
> > returning anything.
> >
> > Shouldn't it be using the <rootURL> variable in the flexwiki.config?
> >
> > Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
> >
> > - Glenn
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flexwiki-users mailing list
> > Flexwiki-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
> >
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Flexwiki-users mailing list
> Flexwiki-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
>
>

I saw your request for help previously on the FAQ and have started work on
an SQL 2005 install for my system.
First, though a question and suggested procedure. What version are you
using? If you create a namespace in the file system do you get the same
error?
John Davidson
On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 AM, Glenn Wellington <glenn.wellington@...>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I seem to be having some issues with upgrading to FlexWiki 2.0regarding the "Namespace Index" listing on the left hand border. I'm using
> the provided SQL Provider which is working fine (i.e. I can peruse the
> different namespaces and topics fine.)
>
> The left border though comes up funky. For the namespace index, I'm
> getting listings of "Sample":/wiki/default.aspx/Sample/Homepage.html instead
> of valid wiki links. It seems like the site root URL is never getting
> populated. I took a look at the code and it generates from the variable
> SiteURL which is populated from
> HttpContext.Current.Request.ApplicationPath which doesn't seem to be
> returning anything.
>
> Shouldn't it be using the <rootURL> variable in the flexwiki.config?
>
> Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
>
> - Glenn
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Flexwiki-users mailing list
> Flexwiki-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
>
>

Hi all,
I seem to be having some issues with upgrading to FlexWiki 2.0 regarding
the "Namespace Index" listing on the left hand border. I'm using the
provided SQL Provider which is working fine (i.e. I can peruse the different
namespaces and topics fine.)
The left border though comes up funky. For the namespace index, I'm
getting listings of "Sample":/wiki/default.aspx/Sample/Homepage.html instead
of valid wiki links. It seems like the site root URL is never getting
populated. I took a look at the code and it generates from the variable
SiteURL which is populated from
HttpContext.Current.Request.ApplicationPathwhich doesn't seem to be
returning anything.
Shouldn't it be using the <rootURL> variable in the flexwiki.config?
Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
- Glenn

1) The user expects
* item
to look like lists usually look in html.
*item
looks identically to the above in any browser. If whitespace would really
matter, the second example should be rendered without any space between
bullet and item in browsers. It would be possible with css to style a list
that way, but I don't believe anybody wants this. At the moment it is
unintuitive for my users to write their list like the second example just
because I need to get rid of the whitespace (see 3).
2) Normally, browsers ignore whitespace that isn't between two words unless it
is defined as a non breaking space (&nbsp;). So if there are any arguments
for having this space, it should better be output as &nbsp; in my opinion.
3) I use nested lists generated by FlexWiki to create a navigation tree. There
is a topic with a navtree property containing the lists in FlexWiki syntax
where the users could define the tree contents. The tree then gets included
in the left border and on every page load, modified heavily by javascript to
make branches foldable and unfoldable etc. For this, I insert <span>s before
the first item of list items that contain sublists. Now if these list items
begin with a space, the space now is between the span and the item and thus
becoming significant and rendered by the browser. This makes it very
difficult to control the space between the <span> and the item, especially
because items in the sublist should become indented by the same amount of
space.
In addition to this, IE6 "corrects" html code when it generates its dom tree,
that is, it removes the leading whitespace. Firefox leaves it in and so does
IE7 (says John Davidson). The result is different look in FF/IE7 and IE6.
Hopefully my use case is compelling enough... ;-)
By the way, there are other cases, where FlexWiki strips whitespace where it
shouldn't: If you define a property containing a list (and only a list),
FlexWiki strips leading whitespace (spaces or tabulators) when you include
the property's contents into another topic (or border) and thus the first
list item isn't recognized any more as the beginning of the list. A
workaround is to let wikitalk output the list string because it doesn't strip
whitespace, but this adds unnecessary clutter to the topic source.
Are there any compelling use cases where stripping leading tabulators when
including properties is needed? ;-)
On Monday 28 January 2008 Jimmy Sieben wrote:
| A couple of questions come to mind:
|
| 1) What would the user expect from principle of least surprise? IMO that
| is what should be implemented
|
| 2) Why does it matter if there is a space in the HTML output? Put
| another way, what are arguments for having the space, and what are
| arguments against having the space?
|
| 3) Are there any compelling use cases that *require* having the space?
| Are there any that require *not* having the space?
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: flexwiki-users-bounces@...
| [mailto:flexwiki-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
| Nathan Jones
| Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:22 PM
| To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List
| Subject: Re: [Flexwiki-users] Space between <li> and its content
|
| Hi guys, I dunno if this is a good idea. What if I want the space
| there? Then when I complain, you'll have to switch it the other way or
| provide a syntax to allow me to specify that I want leading
| whitespaces.
|
| The notation is clearly defined in this case, and while it may seem
| unconventional in the face of html, the flexwiki syntax is not html,
| so it can't really be compared to it. Whitespace _is meaningful_ in
| wikitalk and the flexwiki syntax.
|
| I'd vote to not change the behavior of this, and instead note it in
| the docs or something.
|
| -nathan
|
| On Jan 24, 2008 6:38 PM, John Davidson <jwdavidson@...> wrote:
| > I think your solution to strip whitespace is reasonable, and will
|
| implement
|
| > it in the next update series. Can you please enter a bug in the
|
| sourceforge
|
| > tracker and assign it to me.
| >
| >
| > As Derek stated, nothing is easy, which is also the case here. I can
|
| handle
|
| > the fix in a single line of code, but will have to adjust hundreds of
|
| lines
|
| > of testing as they are set to require the space and must be modified
|
| before
|
| > the update will build.
| >
| > John Davidson
| >
| > On 1/24/08, Benno Dielmann <lists@... > wrote:
| > > Thanks a lot for your investigation of this issue.
| > > My target platform is IE6 and IE6 removes the space in its DOM. IE7
|
| is
|
| > said to
| >
| > > be much more standards compliant so no wonder it doesn't remove the
| >
| > space...
| >
| > > It seems that FlexWiki includes the space between * and the list
|
| text into
|
| > the
| >
| > > html. I didn't expect this so I never tested it. Thanks for pointing
|
| me to
|
| > > this.
| > >
| > > Still I think this is a (minor, but not for me) bug in FlexWiki. It
|
| might
|
| > be
| >
| > > better to strip any leading and trailing white space before
|
| generating the
|
| > > <li> html. Otherwise I'll have my users to write the lists like
| > >
| > > *item 1
| > > *item 2
| > > *item 3
| > > *item 4
| > >
| > > and so on for my layout to work both in IE6 and IE7. This is not
|
| very
|
| > > intuitive and the whitespace in html serves no purpose at all. This
|
| should
|
| > be
| >
| > > an easy fix, shouldn't it? Unfortunately, I haven't got a .NET
|
| development
|
| > > environment set up so I can't try...
| > >
| > > I could remove eventual leading whitespace via javascript but this
|
| isn't
|
| > very
| >
| > > desirable performance-wise...
| > >
| > > li:before isn't supported by IE as far as I know (maybe IE7 supports
|
| it?).
|
| > > Thanks again for spending time on this,
| > >
| > > Benno.
| > >
| > > On Thursday 24 January 2008 John Davidson wrote:
| > > | I have checked the source code and there is no addition of a space
|
| in
|
| > the
| >
| > > | output that is then removed by one browser but not another. I have
| >
| > tested
| >
| > > | with Safari 3, Firefox 2 and IE7 (not IE6) and source input is
| >
| > identical.
| >
| > > | See the bottom of the reference [1] topic, where I have created
|
| lists,
|
| > some
| >
| > > | with spaces after the wiki list identifier and others where there
|
| are no
|
| > > | spaces.
| > > |
| > > | Where I had a space
| > > | * first line
| > > | I get a <li> first line</li>
| > > |
| > > | Where I have no space
| > > | *second line
| > > | I get <li>second line</li>
| > > |
| > > | In both cases the output of the standard CSS for FlexWiki gives
|
| correct
|
| > > | output.
| > > |
| > > | If you are using the 'content' CSS modifier for a list then you
|
| should
|
| > see
| >
| > > | my sample at [2], where I explicitly add a space to li.before so
|
| that
|
| > there
| >
| > > | is one there all the time.
| > > |
| > > |
| > > | If this does not help please feel free to create a brief sample on
|
| a
|
| > > | webpage at ods.dyndns.org and let me know when it is there so that
|
| I can
|
| > > | see a coded sample of the issue, rather than just an explanation
|
| which
|
| > may
| >
| > > | not get across the problem.
| > > |
| > > | [1]
|
| http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/Test.html[2]
|
| http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/FleXhtmlDemo.html
|
| > > | John Davidson
| > > |
| > > | On 1/24/08, lists@... < lists@...>
|
| wrote:
| > > | > Hi all,
| > > | >
| > > | > another FlexWiki issue that bugs me: FlexWiki inserts a space
|
| between
|
| > > | > list tags and its contents:
| > > | >
| > > | > <ul>
| > > | > <li> List item</li>
| > > | > </ul>
| > > | >
| > > | > What I do is via javascript I insert spans at the top of <li>
| >
| > contents.
| >
| > > | > Unfortunately, IE6 silently removes the leading space character
|
| when
|
| > > | > generating the dom while Firefox leaves it there. So the
|
| resulting
|
| > thing
| >
| > > | > is
| > > | >
| > > | > <li><span /> List item</li>
| > > | >
| > > | > in Firefox and
| > > | >
| > > | > <li><span />List item</li>
| > > | >
| > > | > in IE. This time I'm happy about the IE way, because the
|
| needless
|
| > space
| >
| > > | > in Firefox ruins my layout...
| > > | >
| > > | > The solution would be to find the code in the FlexWiki
|
| sourcecode that
|
| > > | > adds (or doesn't remove) this whitespace and fix this. I already
| >
| > looked
| >
| > > | > through the code but wasn't able to find the right place due to
|
| my
|
| > poor
| >
| > > | > knowledge of FlexWikis inner workings...
|
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great job John. Thanks very much.
Derek.
From: John Davidson=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:47 PM
To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List=20
Subject: [Flexwiki-users] flexwiki.com gardening
I have completed an aggressive effort to weed flexwiki of the various =
weeds that have accumulated while we were pushing to get version 2.0 =
completed. =20
The majority of the link spam and random letters has been removed from =
the site. I can not pretend to have gotten it all. If anyone finds more =
please remove it. If you are unsure what to do or if it is really spam =
just update the possibly offending page and I will investigate.
I have disabled remote editing via the WebService for the time being, as =
it was being misused to create link spam and other mischief. I intend to =
implement a whitelist for IP Addresses allowed to use this =
functionality.=20
I have also enabled CAPTCHA for edits with more than 5 new links. Craig =
did a really nice job of making this minimally invasive. I considered =
making CAPTCHA required for all edits, but do not feel that is required, =
as the amount of problem edits remains less than 3 per day (the update =
to the blacklist has also stopped a lot). There are still a few bots (2 =
I think) hitting the wiki at various times, but as they only edit one or =
two pages I can manually handle the fixups for now.
John Davidson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
_______________________________________________
Flexwiki-users mailing list
Flexwiki-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users

I have completed an aggressive effort to weed flexwiki of the various weeds
that have accumulated while we were pushing to get version 2.0 completed.
The majority of the link spam and random letters has been removed from the
site. I can not pretend to have gotten it all. If anyone finds more please
remove it. If you are unsure what to do or if it is really spam just update
the possibly offending page and I will investigate.
I have disabled remote editing via the WebService for the time being, as it
was being misused to create link spam and other mischief. I intend to
implement a whitelist for IP Addresses allowed to use this functionality.
I have also enabled CAPTCHA for edits with more than 5 new links. Craig did
a really nice job of making this minimally invasive. I considered making
CAPTCHA required for all edits, but do not feel that is required, as the
amount of problem edits remains less than 3 per day (the update to the
blacklist has also stopped a lot). There are still a few bots (2 I think)
hitting the wiki at various times, but as they only edit one or two pages I
can manually handle the fixups for now.
John Davidson

The removal of the extra space only impacts the 'View source'. All output in
all browsers, IE (2 - 7), Firefox(2-3) and Safari(2-3) all render lists
identically, before and after the change. The extra space is never output in
the browser rendered list. This means that the wiki syntax for the user does
not change, whereas if the space was left in a user community would be using
a slightly different input syntax than is currently documented.
The argument against having the space is that the standards do not include
starting a list with a space. Browser writers are aware however that users
would insert a space as the first character of a listitem and now strip it
if present.
The standard allows a css modifier - li.before to be used to insert a space
(or any other character or characters) that is rendered before the first
real character of a listitem. I initially found this modifier because I got
a surprise when I found the space was discarded by the browser even though
it was in the html.
In all the test lists I had available there were no instances where removing
the whitespace caused the output to change in any browser. If anyone can
present an instance where the output is changed I will revert, otherwise the
change should stand as I believe the inclusion of the space in the first
place was an oversight that had no impact at that time. Benno has presented
a case where the space causes an issue.
There are many cases in FlexWiki where input and output have not been
verified to be standards compliant. It is hoped that by creating a new
parser there will be an opportunity to more easily separate and view all
input and output conditions more readily. This is especially true of output
for output for a number of conditions including lists, anchors within
headers or links, etc.
John Davidson
On 1/28/08, Jimmy Sieben <jimmys@...> wrote:
>
> A couple of questions come to mind:
>
> 1) What would the user expect from principle of least surprise? IMO that
> is what should be implemented
>
> 2) Why does it matter if there is a space in the HTML output? Put
> another way, what are arguments for having the space, and what are
> arguments against having the space?
>
> 3) Are there any compelling use cases that *require* having the space?
> Are there any that require *not* having the space?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flexwiki-users-bounces@...
> [mailto:flexwiki-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
> Nathan Jones
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:22 PM
> To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Flexwiki-users] Space between <li> and its content
>
> Hi guys, I dunno if this is a good idea. What if I want the space
> there? Then when I complain, you'll have to switch it the other way or
> provide a syntax to allow me to specify that I want leading
> whitespaces.
>
> The notation is clearly defined in this case, and while it may seem
> unconventional in the face of html, the flexwiki syntax is not html,
> so it can't really be compared to it. Whitespace _is meaningful_ in
> wikitalk and the flexwiki syntax.
>
> I'd vote to not change the behavior of this, and instead note it in
> the docs or something.
>
> -nathan
>
> On Jan 24, 2008 6:38 PM, John Davidson <jwdavidson@...> wrote:
> > I think your solution to strip whitespace is reasonable, and will
> implement
> > it in the next update series. Can you please enter a bug in the
> sourceforge
> > tracker and assign it to me.
> >
> >
> > As Derek stated, nothing is easy, which is also the case here. I can
> handle
> > the fix in a single line of code, but will have to adjust hundreds of
> lines
> > of testing as they are set to require the space and must be modified
> before
> > the update will build.
> >
> > John Davidson
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/24/08, Benno Dielmann <lists@... > wrote:
> > > Thanks a lot for your investigation of this issue.
> > > My target platform is IE6 and IE6 removes the space in its DOM. IE7
> is
> > said to
> > > be much more standards compliant so no wonder it doesn't remove the
> > space...
> > >
> > > It seems that FlexWiki includes the space between * and the list
> text into
> > the
> > > html. I didn't expect this so I never tested it. Thanks for pointing
> me to
> > > this.
> > >
> > > Still I think this is a (minor, but not for me) bug in FlexWiki. It
> might
> > be
> > > better to strip any leading and trailing white space before
> generating the
> > > <li> html. Otherwise I'll have my users to write the lists like
> > >
> > > *item 1
> > > *item 2
> > > *item 3
> > > *item 4
> > >
> > > and so on for my layout to work both in IE6 and IE7. This is not
> very
> > > intuitive and the whitespace in html serves no purpose at all. This
> should
> > be
> > > an easy fix, shouldn't it? Unfortunately, I haven't got a .NET
> development
> > > environment set up so I can't try...
> > >
> > > I could remove eventual leading whitespace via javascript but this
> isn't
> > very
> > > desirable performance-wise...
> > >
> > > li:before isn't supported by IE as far as I know (maybe IE7 supports
> it?).
> > >
> > > Thanks again for spending time on this,
> > >
> > > Benno.
> > >
> > > On Thursday 24 January 2008 John Davidson wrote:
> > > | I have checked the source code and there is no addition of a space
> in
> > the
> > > | output that is then removed by one browser but not another. I have
> > tested
> > > | with Safari 3, Firefox 2 and IE7 (not IE6) and source input is
> > identical.
> > > | See the bottom of the reference [1] topic, where I have created
> lists,
> > some
> > > | with spaces after the wiki list identifier and others where there
> are no
> > > | spaces.
> > > |
> > > | Where I had a space
> > > | * first line
> > > | I get a <li> first line</li>
> > > |
> > > | Where I have no space
> > > | *second line
> > > | I get <li>second line</li>
> > > |
> > > | In both cases the output of the standard CSS for FlexWiki gives
> correct
> > > | output.
> > > |
> > > | If you are using the 'content' CSS modifier for a list then you
> should
> > see
> > > | my sample at [2], where I explicitly add a space to li.before so
> that
> > there
> > > | is one there all the time.
> > > |
> > > |
> > > | If this does not help please feel free to create a brief sample on
> a
> > > | webpage at ods.dyndns.org and let me know when it is there so that
> I can
> > > | see a coded sample of the issue, rather than just an explanation
> which
> > may
> > > | not get across the problem.
> > > |
> > > | [1]
> http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/Test.html[2]
> > > |
> http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/FleXhtmlDemo.html
> > > |
> > > | John Davidson
> > > |
> > > | On 1/24/08, lists@... < lists@...>
> wrote:
> > > | > Hi all,
> > > | >
> > > | > another FlexWiki issue that bugs me: FlexWiki inserts a space
> between
> > > | > list tags and its contents:
> > > | >
> > > | > <ul>
> > > | > <li> List item</li>
> > > | > </ul>
> > > | >
> > > | > What I do is via javascript I insert spans at the top of <li>
> > contents.
> > > | > Unfortunately, IE6 silently removes the leading space character
> when
> > > | > generating the dom while Firefox leaves it there. So the
> resulting
> > thing
> > > | > is
> > > | >
> > > | > <li><span /> List item</li>
> > > | >
> > > | > in Firefox and
> > > | >
> > > | > <li><span />List item</li>
> > > | >
> > > | > in IE. This time I'm happy about the IE way, because the
> needless
> > space
> > > | > in Firefox ruins my layout...
> > > | >
> > > | > The solution would be to find the code in the FlexWiki
> sourcecode that
> > > | > adds (or doesn't remove) this whitespace and fix this. I already
> > looked
> > > | > through the code but wasn't able to find the right place due to
> my
> > poor
> > > | > knowledge of FlexWikis inner workings...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Flexwiki-users mailing list
> > > Flexwiki-users@...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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>
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A couple of questions come to mind:
1) What would the user expect from principle of least surprise? IMO that
is what should be implemented
2) Why does it matter if there is a space in the HTML output? Put
another way, what are arguments for having the space, and what are
arguments against having the space?
3) Are there any compelling use cases that *require* having the space?
Are there any that require *not* having the space?
-----Original Message-----
From: flexwiki-users-bounces@...
[mailto:flexwiki-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Nathan Jones
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:22 PM
To: FlexWiki Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Flexwiki-users] Space between <li> and its content
Hi guys, I dunno if this is a good idea. What if I want the space
there? Then when I complain, you'll have to switch it the other way or
provide a syntax to allow me to specify that I want leading
whitespaces.
The notation is clearly defined in this case, and while it may seem
unconventional in the face of html, the flexwiki syntax is not html,
so it can't really be compared to it. Whitespace _is meaningful_ in
wikitalk and the flexwiki syntax.
I'd vote to not change the behavior of this, and instead note it in
the docs or something.
-nathan
On Jan 24, 2008 6:38 PM, John Davidson <jwdavidson@...> wrote:
> I think your solution to strip whitespace is reasonable, and will
implement
> it in the next update series. Can you please enter a bug in the
sourceforge
> tracker and assign it to me.
>
>
> As Derek stated, nothing is easy, which is also the case here. I can
handle
> the fix in a single line of code, but will have to adjust hundreds of
lines
> of testing as they are set to require the space and must be modified
before
> the update will build.
>
> John Davidson
>
>
>
> On 1/24/08, Benno Dielmann <lists@... > wrote:
> > Thanks a lot for your investigation of this issue.
> > My target platform is IE6 and IE6 removes the space in its DOM. IE7
is
> said to
> > be much more standards compliant so no wonder it doesn't remove the
> space...
> >
> > It seems that FlexWiki includes the space between * and the list
text into
> the
> > html. I didn't expect this so I never tested it. Thanks for pointing
me to
> > this.
> >
> > Still I think this is a (minor, but not for me) bug in FlexWiki. It
might
> be
> > better to strip any leading and trailing white space before
generating the
> > <li> html. Otherwise I'll have my users to write the lists like
> >
> > *item 1
> > *item 2
> > *item 3
> > *item 4
> >
> > and so on for my layout to work both in IE6 and IE7. This is not
very
> > intuitive and the whitespace in html serves no purpose at all. This
should
> be
> > an easy fix, shouldn't it? Unfortunately, I haven't got a .NET
development
> > environment set up so I can't try...
> >
> > I could remove eventual leading whitespace via javascript but this
isn't
> very
> > desirable performance-wise...
> >
> > li:before isn't supported by IE as far as I know (maybe IE7 supports
it?).
> >
> > Thanks again for spending time on this,
> >
> > Benno.
> >
> > On Thursday 24 January 2008 John Davidson wrote:
> > | I have checked the source code and there is no addition of a space
in
> the
> > | output that is then removed by one browser but not another. I have
> tested
> > | with Safari 3, Firefox 2 and IE7 (not IE6) and source input is
> identical.
> > | See the bottom of the reference [1] topic, where I have created
lists,
> some
> > | with spaces after the wiki list identifier and others where there
are no
> > | spaces.
> > |
> > | Where I had a space
> > | * first line
> > | I get a <li> first line</li>
> > |
> > | Where I have no space
> > | *second line
> > | I get <li>second line</li>
> > |
> > | In both cases the output of the standard CSS for FlexWiki gives
correct
> > | output.
> > |
> > | If you are using the 'content' CSS modifier for a list then you
should
> see
> > | my sample at [2], where I explicitly add a space to li.before so
that
> there
> > | is one there all the time.
> > |
> > |
> > | If this does not help please feel free to create a brief sample on
a
> > | webpage at ods.dyndns.org and let me know when it is there so that
I can
> > | see a coded sample of the issue, rather than just an explanation
which
> may
> > | not get across the problem.
> > |
> > | [1]
http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/Test.html[2]
> > |
http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/FleXhtmlDemo.html
> > |
> > | John Davidson
> > |
> > | On 1/24/08, lists@... < lists@...>
wrote:
> > | > Hi all,
> > | >
> > | > another FlexWiki issue that bugs me: FlexWiki inserts a space
between
> > | > list tags and its contents:
> > | >
> > | > <ul>
> > | > <li> List item</li>
> > | > </ul>
> > | >
> > | > What I do is via javascript I insert spans at the top of <li>
> contents.
> > | > Unfortunately, IE6 silently removes the leading space character
when
> > | > generating the dom while Firefox leaves it there. So the
resulting
> thing
> > | > is
> > | >
> > | > <li><span /> List item</li>
> > | >
> > | > in Firefox and
> > | >
> > | > <li><span />List item</li>
> > | >
> > | > in IE. This time I'm happy about the IE way, because the
needless
> space
> > | > in Firefox ruins my layout...
> > | >
> > | > The solution would be to find the code in the FlexWiki
sourcecode that
> > | > adds (or doesn't remove) this whitespace and fix this. I already
> looked
> > | > through the code but wasn't able to find the right place due to
my
> poor
> > | > knowledge of FlexWikis inner workings...
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flexwiki-users mailing list
> > Flexwiki-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
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> Flexwiki-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Flexwiki-users mailing list
Flexwiki-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users

Hi guys, I dunno if this is a good idea. What if I want the space
there? Then when I complain, you'll have to switch it the other way or
provide a syntax to allow me to specify that I want leading
whitespaces.
The notation is clearly defined in this case, and while it may seem
unconventional in the face of html, the flexwiki syntax is not html,
so it can't really be compared to it. Whitespace _is meaningful_ in
wikitalk and the flexwiki syntax.
I'd vote to not change the behavior of this, and instead note it in
the docs or something.
-nathan
On Jan 24, 2008 6:38 PM, John Davidson <jwdavidson@...> wrote:
> I think your solution to strip whitespace is reasonable, and will implement
> it in the next update series. Can you please enter a bug in the sourceforge
> tracker and assign it to me.
>
>
> As Derek stated, nothing is easy, which is also the case here. I can handle
> the fix in a single line of code, but will have to adjust hundreds of lines
> of testing as they are set to require the space and must be modified before
> the update will build.
>
> John Davidson
>
>
>
> On 1/24/08, Benno Dielmann <lists@... > wrote:
> > Thanks a lot for your investigation of this issue.
> > My target platform is IE6 and IE6 removes the space in its DOM. IE7 is
> said to
> > be much more standards compliant so no wonder it doesn't remove the
> space...
> >
> > It seems that FlexWiki includes the space between * and the list text into
> the
> > html. I didn't expect this so I never tested it. Thanks for pointing me to
> > this.
> >
> > Still I think this is a (minor, but not for me) bug in FlexWiki. It might
> be
> > better to strip any leading and trailing white space before generating the
> > <li> html. Otherwise I'll have my users to write the lists like
> >
> > *item 1
> > *item 2
> > *item 3
> > *item 4
> >
> > and so on for my layout to work both in IE6 and IE7. This is not very
> > intuitive and the whitespace in html serves no purpose at all. This should
> be
> > an easy fix, shouldn't it? Unfortunately, I haven't got a .NET development
> > environment set up so I can't try...
> >
> > I could remove eventual leading whitespace via javascript but this isn't
> very
> > desirable performance-wise...
> >
> > li:before isn't supported by IE as far as I know (maybe IE7 supports it?).
> >
> > Thanks again for spending time on this,
> >
> > Benno.
> >
> > On Thursday 24 January 2008 John Davidson wrote:
> > | I have checked the source code and there is no addition of a space in
> the
> > | output that is then removed by one browser but not another. I have
> tested
> > | with Safari 3, Firefox 2 and IE7 (not IE6) and source input is
> identical.
> > | See the bottom of the reference [1] topic, where I have created lists,
> some
> > | with spaces after the wiki list identifier and others where there are no
> > | spaces.
> > |
> > | Where I had a space
> > | * first line
> > | I get a <li> first line</li>
> > |
> > | Where I have no space
> > | *second line
> > | I get <li>second line</li>
> > |
> > | In both cases the output of the standard CSS for FlexWiki gives correct
> > | output.
> > |
> > | If you are using the 'content' CSS modifier for a list then you should
> see
> > | my sample at [2], where I explicitly add a space to li.before so that
> there
> > | is one there all the time.
> > |
> > |
> > | If this does not help please feel free to create a brief sample on a
> > | webpage at ods.dyndns.org and let me know when it is there so that I can
> > | see a coded sample of the issue, rather than just an explanation which
> may
> > | not get across the problem.
> > |
> > | [1] http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/Test.html[2]
> > | http://ods.dyndns.org/FlexWiki/default.aspx/OdsWiki/FleXhtmlDemo.html
> > |
> > | John Davidson
> > |
> > | On 1/24/08, lists@... < lists@...> wrote:
> > | > Hi all,
> > | >
> > | > another FlexWiki issue that bugs me: FlexWiki inserts a space between
> > | > list tags and its contents:
> > | >
> > | > <ul>
> > | > <li> List item</li>
> > | > </ul>
> > | >
> > | > What I do is via javascript I insert spans at the top of <li>
> contents.
> > | > Unfortunately, IE6 silently removes the leading space character when
> > | > generating the dom while Firefox leaves it there. So the resulting
> thing
> > | > is
> > | >
> > | > <li><span /> List item</li>
> > | >
> > | > in Firefox and
> > | >
> > | > <li><span />List item</li>
> > | >
> > | > in IE. This time I'm happy about the IE way, because the needless
> space
> > | > in Firefox ruins my layout...
> > | >
> > | > The solution would be to find the code in the FlexWiki sourcecode that
> > | > adds (or doesn't remove) this whitespace and fix this. I already
> looked
> > | > through the code but wasn't able to find the right place due to my
> poor
> > | > knowledge of FlexWikis inner workings...
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Flexwiki-users mailing list
> > Flexwiki-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
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> Flexwiki-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flexwiki-users
>
>

I have reviewed the code for generating TableClass and
TableClassWithoutBorders in FlexWiki and the related css for chocolate and
classic. Benno is correct in saying that cellspacing=1 is no longer
required. Also the css for both classes set border-collapse:collapse; which
should mean that cellpadding=2 is also overridden.
There are other cases of tables generated elsewhere in FlexWiki for other
purposes that will not have changed values for either cellspacing or
cellpadding as there is no related css (in most cases these do not have a
class defined).
cellspacing and cellpadding are valid html4 and xhtml1.1. They are scheduled
to be dropped in html5 and I couldn't find them in xhtml2
John Davidson
On 1/28/08, Derek Lakin <derek.lakin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Benno,
>
> Thanks for the bug report; much appreciated. I'm sure that as soon as
> someone has the time and inclination to look at it they will do :o)
>
> As John has mentioned previously, a lot of the work involved in making
> these
> kind of changes is that the code changes may be quite minor, the changes
> to
> tests to verify that nothing else has been broken may be more significant.
> In this case, it may well affect the appearance, which is not tested,
> because some styles that ship with FlexWiki might not provide the same
> CSS-based styling for tables that the chocolate style does.
>
>

Hi Benno,
Thanks for the bug report; much appreciated. I'm sure that as soon as
someone has the time and inclination to look at it they will do :o)
As John has mentioned previously, a lot of the work involved in making these
kind of changes is that the code changes may be quite minor, the changes to
tests to verify that nothing else has been broken may be more significant.
In this case, it may well affect the appearance, which is not tested,
because some styles that ship with FlexWiki might not provide the same
CSS-based styling for tables that the chocolate style does.
Thanks again,
Derek.
--------------------------------------------------
From: <lists@...>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 3:21 PM
To: <flexwiki-users@...>
Subject: [Flexwiki-users] cellspacing=1 hinders styling of tables
> Hi all,
>
> I just submitted another bug report for a minor issue at the bug tracker:
> FlexWiki generates tables in topics with cellspacing attribute set to 1.
> This leads to problems when restyling tables to use background colors for
> cells but no borders. In Internet Explorer, there is no way to remove this
> cellspacing by css as it doesn't support the border-spacing property.
>
> At the moment, I use javascript to unset the cellspacing attribute for
> each table in the topic body, but this comes with a performance cost...
>
> As far as I can see, the cellspacing=1 isn't needed at all because the
> current styles explicitly set cell borders anyway.
>
> Greetings from Germany,
>
> Benno Dielmann.
>
> PS. Thanks to John Davidson for fixing the listitem-space issue :-).
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
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