CSBG Archive

Comic Book Legends Revealed #455

Welcome to the four hundred and fifty-fifth in a series of examinations of comic book legends and whether they are true or false. Click here for an archive of the previous four hundred and fifty-four. This week, does DC seriously own a trademark on the LETTERING in Superman’s logo? What strange way did Denny O’Neil react to the Batman credit card scene in Batman and Robin? And why did Marvel cancel Logan’s Run?

Let’s begin!

NOTE: The column is on three pages, a page for each legend. There’s a little “next” button on the top of the page and the bottom of the page to take you to the next page (and you can navigate between each page by just clicking on the little 1, 2 and 3 on the top and the bottom, as well).

COMIC LEGEND: DC has a trademark on the telescopic style of letters in Superman’s logo.

STATUS: True

Everyone knows that DC owns a trademark on Superman’s name and his big S, but did you know that DC actually owns a trademark on the STYLE of the telescopic lettering on Superman’s logo?

It’s true.

From an 1982 case, here’s a brief review of some of the trademarks DC owns on Superman:

The record shows that SUPERMAN has been registered for toy doll figures, that SUPERMAN in combination with a full figure drawing has been registered for magazines, that the SUPERMAN logo, with name and drawing of head and torso, has been registered for magazines, that the SUPERMAN logo, with the name in telescopic lettering, has been registered for cartoons in a series, and that a full figure drawing of SUPERMAN has been registered for shirts.

In other words, you cannot use the distinctive telescopic lettering in Superman’s logo for goods that you’re trying to sell. Obviously, it is very easy to achieve a SIMILAR effect without clearly just taking off Superman’s logo…

But you can’t just take that distinct lettering style for your own commercial goods.

Irene Vartanoff has a great piece on her site explaining her time when she was in charge of rights and permissions at DC Comics in the 1980s and would have to go after people for using the distinctive letter of the Superman logo.

Damn, that was a really simple legend. I mean, it’s cool and all, but still very simple.

Thanks to Irene for the great article!
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QNetter

The trademark may be enforceable and interpreted that way, but it doesn’t actually state that. It does not say that the telescoping style is registered. It says that the SUPERMAN logo WITH telescoping style is registered. If it was the BIG BELLY BURGER logo with telescoping style, the wording of that notice does not imply registration or infringement.

I loved the Logan’s Run comic book when I was a kid, even though I didn’t see the movie until decades later. I always knew that the comic went from movie adaptation to new stories at some point in the run, but when I finally saw the movie I was surprised to find that a lot of the stuff I just assumed was original to the comic was actually in the movie, like Box, the robot in the frozen cave. As I kid I figured that all the seemingly random adventures in the world outside the city were pure comic-book fantasy.

Brian Cronin

My copy of Logan’s Run #7 contains a 17 page story.. Brian, do you have a variant with a 12 page story or are you referencing a trade paperback which deleted 5 pages from the original comic book?

Hehe, I hate it when people make comments based on comments that I have since already edited. Not a knock on you, of course, David, as you began writing your comment when the initial comment was up, but just noting that it is always an annoying piece of timing.

Anonymous

Ah, “Batman and Robin,” a movie that holds two unique distinctions for me: the only movie I went to see on a dare, and the only movie that compelled me to leave the theater before it was over. I was just a naive teen; I didn’t know what I was getting myself into.

Jeff Nettleton

“…sci-fi film based on William F. Nolan and George Clayton Johnson’s movel of the same name.”

What’s a “movel?”

I didn’t get to see Logan’s Run in theaters; but, my cousin had the comics. The only problem was, he only had the odd-numbered issues, so I missed two chapters. He also had an audio recording (this is pre-VCR mass availability) of the CBS broadcast (which I couldn’t see, because the nearest CBS affiliate didn’t come in very clear), with the final few minutes, as Logan is being interrogated by the computer. I got to see this (plus the photos in the movie tie-in re-release of the novel) and hear the recording on the same trip to his house. he was also playing a 78 rpm of Supertramp’s “The Logical Song.” Since that time, whenever I hear that song, I immediately think of the George Perez artwork of the interrogation scene and the audio recording my cousin made.

As far as the new material, the storyline bears some resemblance to the second Logan novel, Logan’s World, which I believe was out at the time.

I liked Batman TAS’ take on Schumacher, in the “Legends of the Dark Knight” episode, where three kids tell different stories about Batman, each illustrated in a different style. The walk past a kid with a pink feather boa who says, “I heard he wears rubber armor and the Batmobile can drive up walls!” To which, one of the kids replies, “Shut up Joel!” Brilliant! That was also where they did the mini-Dark Knight Returns adaptation, with Michael Ironside (who did it far better than Peter Weller, in the recent 2-part dvd adaptation). The 50s Dick Sprang style for the first story was pretty darn good, too.

Mike Loughlin

Fraser

I believe the TAS story was inspired by “The Batman Nobody Knows,” a seventies comics story using the same structure. But I missed the “Joel” in joke in the TV episode–nice!
Re Batman and Robin, I don’t know–it sounds like David was joking to me. But lord knows, he’d be justified in screaming.
The Logan’s Run new stuff was pretty good, IIRC. But I don’t remember the Thanos backup at all.

Red Comet

I bet any Logan’s Run stories not published got turned into Star Wars cut ‘n’ paste jobs. Seems that’s what happened to every other sci-fi license inventory story that never got printed at Marvel back then.

Edo Bosnar

I love the Marvel Logan’s Run series – including the last two issues with the unfinished story – so much that I had my copies bound. Now it’s all the worse knowing that it wasn’t cancelled due to the low sales axe – Warner and Sutton were indeed doing a good job, and I would have loved an extended, well, run of their Logan’s Run comics, or least the completion of the story they had started.
And Red Comet, I think I know where some of the fodder for that future legend appeared, and it wasn’t in Star Wars…

fury

Jeff Nettleton

@Fraser
Yeah that was the story that inspired the episode, with kids on a camping trip swapping stories (with Bruce Wayne along). There was also a revisit to that story in the later 80s, with new “witnesses.”

I skipped B&R; the trailer was horrible. I just knew they were going to have Arnold say something like, “Ice to see you Batman!” No way was I paying money to see it. I watched about 5 minutes on tv and changed the channel. Forever had some moments, but they were few and far between. I have no problem with campy, if done well. I love the Adam West film which, along with the Filmation Adventures of Batman cartoons (from the Batman/Superman Hour) was my introduction to the world of the Caped Crusader (along with the Sesame Street segments). the tv series was great in its first season and pretty decent in the second. Batman The Brave and the Bold rocked!

Brian from Canada

It’s interesting that Denny O’Neil should scream in pain during Batman & Robin. If he was an editor in 1989, he would have been one of the ones who screamed in pain during Tim Burton’s Batman and started to plot the demise of Bruce Wayne before WB stepped in and ordered DC to just accept it. (I am basing that “kill Bruce” fact on a book about Batman published in the early 00s.)

Jeff Nettleton

I thought the tv series was fairly decent, though very “Star Trekky,” which is the obvious influence of DC Fontana. I had more logic problems with it, like how these various Sandmen who go out with Francis never seem awed by the outside world. Francis is depicted as a fanatic, but I found it odd that not a single other Sandman questioned the system, after setting foot outside the domed city. There was also the feeling that the settlements that Logan, Jessica, and REM find all seem to be fairly close to the domed city. Otherwise, I thought it wasn’t a bad attempt at an adaptation.

John H.

A fill-in issue of “Logan’s Run” was also prepared/finished and ended up being published in BIZARRE ADVENTURES #28 with Logan changed to “The Huntsman”. Written by Archie Goodwin and drawn by Michael Golden!

Brian from Canada

Thanks Brian From Canada – a better example might have been… say… the CBR logo at the top of this page, which actually has ‘telescopic lettering’ rather than “Spider-Man”, which is just hovering above a shadow of itself.

Were they straight adaptations? No (although apparently DC just put out a trade of full of stories that were adapted for episodes)- but the tone of what I saw was entirely consistent with the tone of the show. That is, when it wasn’t 100x sillier. Batman is constantly being seen in public, in daylight, accepted as if he were just another high profile public figure. This is where a HUGE part of that ‘camp’ aspect of the show comes from.

OK here we go…material taken from ten issues at random in the years during or preceding the TV show

Here’s a very typical scenario- Batman meets an alien from outer space…for an added bonus we have campy, the Schumacher beloved Bat-skates as well.

and one more for good measure- Batman & Robin pop in on a pool party in mid-day during the course of an investigation. Is the Bat-tusi sequence really any sillier than this would have looked if they’d done it in the show?

Well, I refer you to Count Karnstein’s comments and those of Max Allan Collins.

“There was a reason why that TV show was played for laughs and that is when you put actual human beings in those costumes and act out those stories, it looks stupid”, per Max Allan Collins.

It did not stray that far from the feel of the comic books from 1944-to-1964. As the poster Count Karnstein pointed out, those comic books:http://monsterkidclassichorrorforum….ic/topic/14587
“had giant pennies and stuffed dinosaurs, was wearing caveman, zebra, and rainbow costumes, teamed up with Bat-Mite, split in two, melded with Superman, fought a living #2 pencil, drowned in giant gravy boats and menaced by giant sized water pistols, tennis rackets, [had a boy sidekick with shaved legs and pixie shoes] and all sorts of insane absurdities long before the Batman movie or tv show were released….Dozier was bringing the characters to the screen in the manner in which they had been portrayed in the comics. Was there ever a silly, absurd, ridiculous Green Hornet comic book? If so, it’s escaped my attention for the better part of 40 years. Did we ever see a Caveman Green Hornet or a Green Hornet in a rainbox/zebra/dayglo red suit? Did we ever see Green Hornet being drowned in a giant gravy boat or being chased by aliens and dinosaurs? Was there ever an Ace the Green Hornet Dog? How about a Hornet-Mite?

No? I didn’t think so. There’s your answer. It’s literally that simple. Dozier was taking characters and putting them on the screen. Green Hornet was always played straight and serious in the comics/strips/radio, so he was done that way for tv. Batman was as absurd, silly, goofy, and ridiculous as anything else that has ever appeared in comics, and so that’s how he appeared on-screen”.

Like I said before, Batman 1966 is the single most accurate comic book movie ever made. If you look at all the changes other movies made to the characters’ origins, powers, costumes, etc, only the 1966 Batman comes close to a literal translation on screen. Every other movie is merely derivative.

Max Allan Collins said in 1987 that these properties derive from juvenile and adolescent literature, accept, just do not try to do it as adult. Of course, when Collins said that, properties derived from more adult thriller literature still had more prominence. However, the more prominent film franchises derive from children’s properties in recent years.

: Prepare to have your minds blown, ComicsAlliance readers: This movie isn’t just the best of the four we’ve watched, it’s a legitimate hoot. It’s the apotheosis of what these four films have been trying to do, ramping up all the campy stupidity — building on on the poison parade floats and rocket penguins of Burton’s messes — while dropping any pretense of having some sort of ham-handed, poorly scripted deeper meaning. It’s a full-on modernization of Batman ’66 in every way.

And I think it’s genuinely entertaining because of it. It hits the ground running. And rocketing. And space-surfing. And honestly, while there were a lot of people whose reaction was along the lines of “but Batman wouldn’t do that!” or “Batman wouldn’t say that!”, there’s very little that separates what we’ve seen so far from being a Bob Haney Brave and the Bold story from 1975.

Luke Matrix

I’m with everyone hating on Batman and Robin, however the only good thing I find to come from it is this fantastic recut trailerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60pg6VsoGbk
( which might even depress me more to know there was a good film in all that mess and we missed it.)

Paul Garcia

Brian Cronin

Not after you factor in inflation. Once that’s accounted for every single Bat sequel in the 90s grossed less than its predecessors.

Batman Forever made $70 million more than Batman Returns. It came out three years after Batman Returns. Inflation did not make that much of a difference. With inflation the difference would be closer, true, but only by $20 million or so (so still roughly $50 million more than Batman Returns).

AC Rempt

I remember seeing a story that was clearly meant to be a “Logan’s Run” story pencilled by Michael Golden and horribly inked by Steve Mitchell in one of Marvel’s black and white magazines. The details had been changed, and I believe the character was being called a “Hunter” versus a “Sandman.” It was one of a few stories in the issue. Anyone else remember this?

And no offense to Steve Mitchell, but he was a poor match for Golden.

Dave Ziegler

Benn

I remember being so extremely frustrated with the last issue of “Logan’s Run”. In the last panel was the blurb, “Plus the return of… But that would be telling.” Years later, I finally figured out the returning character had to be Box, but at the time I had no idea who’d be coming back.

Timothy Markin

Incredibly, IFC showed that awful piece of dreck tonight and the five minutes I watched included the credit card scene (complete with cash register sound effect)! One ironic bit is that the movie was written by Akiva Goldsman who later won an Oscar for “A Beautiful Mind.”
I find Shumacher’s treatment of Batman inexcusable because by 1997, Batman had proven to be more than just a jokey, campy character. Back in 1965, when filming commenced on the TV show, Batman and Robin were the campy characters as portrayed in the comics. As a fan, I complained about how campy the show was for decades until just a few years ago when I actually had the chance to read the “New Look” issues of 1964. Sure, Bat-Mite and Rainbow Batman and the space aliens were gone, but the “Holy (fill in the blank)” Robin was there and implausible situations were there and I realized the show was a pretty spot-on adaptation. Part of the problem with the Batman comics and the comic industry in general was that the editors didn’t feel any need to make the stories sophisticated beyond the comprehension of an eight-year old. But after Julie Schwarz and Denny O’Neil and Frank Robbins saw that the Batman comics could be well done, there was no reason for Joel Schumacher to make the movies he did beyond ignorance. I’d also like to blame Warner execs for not intervening, but maybe they just wanted to see the Batman they remembered from their youth…the one from television.

Smokescreen

The shame of B and R, in some ways, is that there’s one scene where Clooney figures out who Silverstone is by looking at what she’s wearing and making some deductions. And there’s almost no camp in that scene. And I remember seeing that at the time and thinking “That shows that they at least get the character on some level” and then the rest went back to lunacy.

So one brief shining moment of sanity in a sea of madness. Such a strange film.

M-Wolverine

The scene that will not die. When I went to see it in the theater my brother actually fell asleep during the movie. And as I was complaining about the movie on the ride home I was like “…and the Bat-credit card!…” And he was like, “wait what? There was a Bat-credit card…? I mercifully slept through that….” Ah, the movie that keeps on giving.

And PB210 must have been drinking when watching the movie. Because that, and maybe some robot companions, are the only way to make that movie at all enjoyable.

MarkMcD

Huh. I had always assumed Logan’s Run was cancelled to make room on the printing schedule for the Star Wars comic, since I recalled it debuting exactly one month after the last Logan’s Run. But that was just my opinion.

MarkMcD

Heh. The Superman logo. In the late 70’s, I was in college in Sioux City, IA, which got the idea to promote itself as “Sioux-perland,” complete with a Superman-style logo (red and blue, yet). That got shut down in a BIG hurry. Had they done the promotion without the logo, maybe it would have stuck around.