NaturePlus: Message List - One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/identification/fossils-rocks?view=discussions
Most recent forum messagesenSun, 26 Jan 2014 17:06:21 GMTJive SBS 4.5.6.0 (http://jivesoftware.com/products/clearspace/)2014-01-26T17:06:21ZenRe: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41145?tstart=0#41145
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:3efeaf6c-806e-4328-8625-72dadb0d4523] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p> Ok thanks for the reply.</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:3efeaf6c-806e-4328-8625-72dadb0d4523] -->Sun, 26 Jan 2014 17:06:21 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41145?tstart=0#41145Dan2014-01-26T17:06:21Z1 year, 1 month ago0Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41138?tstart=0#41138
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:43eb6ba3-d79a-480f-992e-65772a4d7376] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Dan,</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>By all means consider sending it to the NHM, but contact them first for advice (they may get a palaeontolgist to have a look at the discussion, which might give result in an ID).</p><p>Also, just because I and other viewers here don't recognize it, it doesn't mean it is a new species. I've been doing geology for over 40 years, and I still find plenty of stuff new to me but known to others.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Mike</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:43eb6ba3-d79a-480f-992e-65772a4d7376] -->Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:17:08 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41138?tstart=0#41138MikeHardman2014-01-26T10:17:08Z1 year, 1 month ago10Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41137?tstart=0#41137
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:9151261a-9a8f-4e2f-b720-39a37aca5473] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Thanks for your replys.&#160; Could it be a new species?&#160; If it's a possobility, should I send it to that centre in the NHM so they can have a look at it?</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:9151261a-9a8f-4e2f-b720-39a37aca5473] -->Sun, 26 Jan 2014 09:52:05 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41137?tstart=0#41137Dan2014-01-26T09:52:05Z1 year, 1 month ago20Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41134?tstart=0#41134
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:65b8f2dd-64bb-451c-a06a-a076c92db05e] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Tabfish,</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>It is a reasonable thought, thanks; especially as Syringopora is recorded from Yorkshire.</p><p>But I don't think it flies.</p><p>Dan's specimen has a fairly regular pattern of vertical and horizontal struts, whereas the structure in Syringopora is somewhat random horizontally; also in Dan's specimen the struts are narrow and probably solid, whereas in S. they are thicker (relative to the gaps between) and more tubular.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>I've been trying to find an example of a plant with woody vascular bundles arranged in the right sort of structure, but without luck. (You may have noticed on old Antirrhinum (snapdragon) stems, there is a perforated woody inner part that remains for a while as old plants decompose; Broccoli and wallflower, likewise.)</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Mike</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:65b8f2dd-64bb-451c-a06a-a076c92db05e] -->Sun, 26 Jan 2014 06:46:57 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41134?tstart=0#41134MikeHardman2014-01-26T06:46:57Z1 year, 1 month ago30Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41132?tstart=0#41132
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:2d9a24e3-4af6-48a8-995f-184fe89f97c1] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Hi Mike</p><p>Image3</p><p>Just looking through some old books and I came across something that looks like the specimen that Dan has found.</p><p>I will probably be wrong but it looks like a referance to a fossil found in the Silurian around the New York area,</p><p>called Syringopora.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Tabfish</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:2d9a24e3-4af6-48a8-995f-184fe89f97c1] -->Sat, 25 Jan 2014 22:22:10 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41132?tstart=0#41132Tabfish2014-01-25T22:22:10Z1 year, 1 month ago40Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41121?tstart=0#41121
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:9ee70b8f-ebdf-4dde-a528-1cbf6ff15886] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Ok thanks for the reply.</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:9ee70b8f-ebdf-4dde-a528-1cbf6ff15886] -->Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:05:54 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41121?tstart=0#41121Dan2014-01-25T21:05:54Z1 year, 1 month ago0Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41120?tstart=0#41120
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:01a72ae6-a9a6-4391-a5e8-f5cec330bcb7] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Yes, the tree and plant fossils suggest a non-marine environment. </p><p>(So coral is not particularly likely; quite right.)</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>That is OK as a generalization. Just bear in mind:</p><p>- The environment where organisms lived can be different from the one where they became finally deposited (plant material is washed from deltas and can be deposited in a marine environment, eg.).</p><p>- Even a thin band of rocks can represent quite a large period of time, during which the environment can vary quite a lot (and it is complicated by hiatuses - periods not recorded in the rocks because of erosion or non-deposition). Even though a stratigraphic unit, such as the Coal Measures, may have a simple name, it may entail a range of lithologies and environments. For instance, although there may have been times when plants flourished on land/swamps, occassional submergence could easily allow the same area to see deposition of marine sediments and associated fossils. When you see an outcrop composed of different rock types, you are probably looking at manifestations of different environments.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>In an area known for plant fossils, marine fossils may be uncommon. But they can occur, and can be be of special interest, resulting in papers being written about them. By way of an example, here are a couple concerning the Coal Measures.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>'Marine horizons in the coal measures of south Wales'</p><p>Trueman, A. E., 1928</p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">"Marine beds, some with abundant faunas, occur in the Anthra-comya pulchra zone at Cwmgorse, near Swansea, and in Yorkshire. Possible marine beds also occur at lower horizons in the former locality; they contain Orthoceras, Orbiculoidea, Lingula and other typically marine organisms."</span></p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>'Lingula Horizons in the Coal Measures of Northumberland and Durham'</p><p>William Hopkins, <span style="font-size: 10pt;">University of Durham</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Geological Magazine, Volume 71, Issue 04, April 1934, pp.183-189<br/></span></p><p>"Previous to 1858, the Northumberland and Durham Coalfield was considered to be destitute of any fauna other than the usual non-marine type. In 1858, J. W. Kirkby gave the first indication of marine fossils in this coalfield. He obtained specimens of Lingula credneri (Geinitz) from shales some 17 feet above the Five-Quarter seam during the sinking of a shaft at Ryhope, 3 miles south of Sunderland (9). Some of these specimens are figured by T. Davidson (2)."</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Your area, Ossett, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">has</span> been under water. The BGS describes the Pennine Middle Coal Measures Formation as "swamps, estuaries and deltas. These rocks were formed in marginal coastal plains with lakes and swamps periodically inundated by the sea; or estuaries and deltas, and shallow seas". That is just the bedrock exposed at the surface. There are older rocks below and there were younger rocks above (since removed by erosion), some of which were probably also deposited in marine environments (although we know many were not).</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Mike</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:01a72ae6-a9a6-4391-a5e8-f5cec330bcb7] -->Sat, 25 Jan 2014 21:01:38 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41120?tstart=0#41120MikeHardman2014-01-25T21:01:38Z1 year, 1 month ago10Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41077?tstart=0#41077
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:f733d995-d50a-4325-89d6-419d6ea2a7f9] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Thanks for the reply.&#160; It has lines going up and down, but I don't think it's a coral because where I live has never been under water.</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:f733d995-d50a-4325-89d6-419d6ea2a7f9] -->Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:36:40 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41077?tstart=0#41077Dan2014-01-24T21:36:40Z1 year, 1 month ago20Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41073?tstart=0#41073
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:a66661cd-2e19-4331-b6d0-2c9bc4d338cc] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Back to the possible Artisia...</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p><span>The closest I have found is some types of rugose coral (like Hippurites), though I have not been able to find a good photo. The best I can do is this engraving - </span><a class="jive-link-external-small" href="http://www.fossilmuseum.net/fossil-art/cnidaria/rugosa2.jpg">http://www.fossilmuseum.net/fossil-art/cnidaria/rugosa2.jpg</a></p><p><span>(from </span><a class="jive-link-external-small" href="http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Tree_of_Life/PhylumCnidaria/classanthozoa.htm">http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Tree_of_Life/PhylumCnidaria/classanthozoa.htm</a><span>)</span></p><p>It has the right sort of mesh pattern, but it seems to be lacking the interwoven aspect of your specimen.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Dan, maybe you could check: am I inventing the interwoven nature of the structure from looking at your photo, or does it really exist? Maybe you can look closely at your specimen and tell me.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Mike</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:a66661cd-2e19-4331-b6d0-2c9bc4d338cc] -->Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:09:31 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41073?tstart=0#41073MikeHardman2014-01-24T21:09:31Z1 year, 1 month ago30Re: One of my best fossil hunting trips everhttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41068?tstart=0#41068
<!-- [DocumentBodyStart:e24eead7-182b-4627-8097-9c8ca3fa8cff] --><div class="jive-rendered-content"><p>Hi again.&#160; I managed to video some of my finds on this trip.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>The first one is a Calamites (which is on the top left in the original picture), and the other one is the trigonocarpus nut.</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p style="min-height: 8pt; height: 8pt; padding: 0px;">&#160;</p><p>Sorry they are not very clear, I videoed them on my phone but it couldn't post them on my phone so I had to vidio them on my ipad from my phone.</p></div><!-- [DocumentBodyEnd:e24eead7-182b-4627-8097-9c8ca3fa8cff] -->Fri, 24 Jan 2014 18:21:47 GMThttp://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/message/41068?tstart=0#41068Dan2014-01-24T18:21:47Z1 year, 1 month ago40