Saturday, September 22, 2007

We can't take what Ganthet says as fact anymore, can we?

In this panel, we see Ganthet the Guardian giving readers the priceless gift of his wisdom.

Unfortunately, that bit at the top about Parallax not being able to sneak up on Kyle because he knew Fear. (Yes, capital-F Fear.)

And the latest installment suggests that second bit about Willpower alone being more useful than Hope will be proven wrong before the end of this crossover.

Of course, being wrong there will be good. The problem is that Ganthet's been serving as Captain Exposition in parts of this crossover, so if he's wrong in these two areas how likely is it that he'll be wrong in something crucial and pertinent?

16 comments:

1. Ganthet has a pretty lousy track-record as an oracle/judge of situations.

I can prove it with juse one comic; Green Lantern #63

In GL #63, he tried taking the ring back from Kyle, saying that Kyle wasn't a worthy continuation of their legacy. He got proven wrong as a way-outclassed Kyle managed to hold back Hal Jordan while Ganthet was getting together a cavalry of Hal's old friends on the JLA to talk/beat sense into him.

Ganthet also said, in the course of this battle as Hal was trying to talk Kyle into giving him the ring, that Hal was unworthy of such power. And yet, about a year later during The Final Night, Ganthet was offering Hal a ring and a chance to be a Green Lantern again even though Hal hadn't repented a damn thing.

And - oh yes - the one that gets ALL the female comic fans in an uproar. As Ganthet is gathering the JLA, he finds Dinah, says he has need of her sonic scream, Dinah says she doesn't have that anymore and Ganthet says "You have no powers? Never mind. You're of no use."

And yes, before you ask, Ganthet DOES pick Ollie of the NO FREAKING POWERS for the team. :P Which makes sense if you're looking for someone to talk sense into Hal but not if you're putting together a team of people to deliver a smackdown.

2. This is a Geoff Johns follow-up to a Geoff Johns story.

As you said, the guy does foreshadowing and drawing off other people's past work like nobody else.

The whole bit about Kyle surpassing Hal because he knows fear came about because of an off-hand prophecy in one Grant Morrison story. Similarly, most of the events of Sinestro Corps thus far have come from one story Alan Moore wrote back in the 80s about the GLC's final battle.

So what if Ganthet's being wrong in Rebirth is a foreshadowing of what WILL finally beat Parallax? Let's not forget that Ganthet himself has fallen to... cue Huey Lewis... The Power of Love! Who's to say Hope won't have a role to play in this by the end?

First, what you list all comes from the period when Ganthet was still abiding by the ideals of the old Guardian era, the one that let to Parallax being released and the GLC being destroyed. The one he was able to move beyond with his experiences with Kyle, but the rest of the Guardians are still mired in. After Marz left Ganthet settled down and became enlightened. Winick, Raab and Johns have all tended to use him in this capacity. Especially since Ganthet is doing Captain Exposition again, and it the mood makes it clear the other Guardians are in the wrong at some points here.

Second, I'm divided between scolding your dismissive comment about female fans being annoyed at Dinah's treatment by Ganthet (which they should) and pointing out that Marz makes a mistake there if that's meant to characterize Ganthet as sexist because a member of Ganthet's species would assume that a female fighter would work better without powers than a male fighter as the Zamarons are physically inclined while the Guardians are mentally inclined.

It is more likely, though, Ganthet was just being a prick to Dinah and picked up Ollie to talk Hal down. But no reason for the dismissive tone towards complaints there.

Finally: "Who's to say Hope won't have a role to play in this by the end?"

"In GL #63, he tried taking the ring back from Kyle, saying that Kyle wasn't a worthy continuation of their legacy. He got proven wrong as a way-outclassed Kyle managed to hold back Hal Jordan while Ganthet was getting together a cavalry of Hal's old friends on the JLA to talk/beat sense into him."

As a rule of thumb, ya can't rely on Marz for characters at their most nuanced or level-headed. So if Ganthet behaves in boneheaded fashion in that story, it's simply the quickest way to create a situation where Kyle absolutely must prove how good he is. The "quickest" way, not necessarily the "best".

First, what you list all comes from the period when Ganthet was still abiding by the ideals of the old Guardian era, the one that let to Parallax being released and the GLC being destroyed. The one he was able to move beyond with his experiences with Kyle, but the rest of the Guardians are still mired in. After Marz left Ganthet settled down and became enlightened. Winick, Raab and Johns have all tended to use him in this capacity. Especially since Ganthet is doing Captain Exposition again, and it the mood makes it clear the other Guardians are in the wrong at some points here.

Well, considering Ganthet has always been depicted as one of the more liberal Guardians (or at least, he was in Ganthet's tale) I'd expect better of him regardless on if he was just coming off of the death of his entire race and breaking out of their mold of thinking. That was my point.

Second, I'm divided between scolding your dismissive comment about female fans being annoyed at Dinah's treatment by Ganthet (which they should) and pointing out that Marz makes a mistake there if that's meant to characterize Ganthet as sexist because a member of Ganthet's species would assume that a female fighter would work better without powers than a male fighter as the Zamarons are physically inclined while the Guardians are mentally inclined.

It wasn't my intention to be dismissive especially since I love Dinah as a character and that scene with Ganthet annoyed me to no end.

Truth be told, I'm somewhat shocked you'd think I could be dismissive of anyone complaining about Dinah being treated badly after all the articles and reviews I've written on the subject in the last month alone. Although given the way I formated the sentence, I can see how it might be read that way. My bad.

My intention was to point out that Ganthet doesn't bring Dinah along allegedly because she won't be any use without powers... and yet he takes Ollie, who is easily less useful in a straight fight.

Granted, Ollie would probably be a better bet to talk Hal down but if you're going with that as a plan, there's no reason NOT to take Dinah too given that a) she'd known Hal longer than Ollie from the JLA and b) she was there for most of the HTH days as well.

My point is - ominpotentence or no - even Ganthet is not nearly as wise or all-knowing as any of the Guardians like to think they are. :)

This does seem to be a direct contradiction to Ganthet's more recent views. However, I would dare to say, that during Rebirth, Ganthet was indeed toeing the party line of the Guardians...hence all the verbiage about Fear and Willpower.

Now...well things have changed quite a bit lately, and Ganthet has changed as well. He's holding hands with Sayd now, and is becoming a bit on the disenchanted side with his fellow Guardians. I find it interesting that Hope, which he dismissed so offhandedly before, may become the one thing that can save his tiny blue butt.

Well, considering Ganthet has always been depicted as one of the more liberal Guardians (or at least, he was in Ganthet's tale) I'd expect better of him regardless on if he was just coming off of the death of his entire race and breaking out of their mold of thinking. That was my point.

See, that's the thing. Ganthet's been shown as more liberal because he, unlike the other Guardians, is open to change. I figure that's why he was picked to be the survivor. Early in the third volume, though, Ganthet was shown as relatively conservative still.

Its like politics for us, too. Take me for your example. Now, if you stand me next to a grou[p of people who are really conservative like Avi Green, I'm going to come off extremely radical. But next to bloggers like Kalinara, Shelly, and Occasional Superheroine I'm come off as a left-leaning moderate or a soft radical depending on what the issue is. However, if you read my stuff placed next to someone very radical like you might find over at Girl-Wonder.org, I can seem downright conservative at times, can't I?

Well, Ganthet at that time period compared to the Silver and Bronze Age Guardians was liberal, and next to Hal Jordan he was a moderate but when you put him next to Kyle Rayner around GLV3#63? He was conservative as hell.

Then you have to factor into that political theory of relativity the fact that Ganthet is an evolving, changing character as SallyP points out. So, not only did he seem more liberal than he was early on, he's gotten more liberal since so the dynamics have changed. Now Ganthet seems liberal next to Hal and moderate by Kyle, and he'll probably seem conservative next to the Zamarons even though he embraces some of their ideals.

An interesting point and not unlike something I've been meaning to write about, but exactly how does it pertain to this particular post rather than one of the other 50-some posts about this crossover and fan reaction to it on this blog, or even a completely separate post on your own blog?

I would argue that in the context of that story, Ganthet is referring to Paralax getting to Kyle through his ring. When the actual entity essentially eats Kyle, I'm willing to let this one slide by the G-Man.

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