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repercussions of using too much smoke?

Hi All:
I usually try to use a minimal amount of smoke when I look into my bees. The bees have been aggressive so I have used more smoke which seems to help. My husband (who helps me but is not a beek) is always wanting too smoke a lot. I know it is fine line but what are the potential drawbacks of using too much smoke.
PS....I spelled repercussion wrong..but could not edit

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

According to my experience, there are 2 types of hives. One that are sensitive to smoke and ones that are not. The ones sensitive to smoke are the ones you want to have. They are gentle and not aggressive. The ones not sensitive to smoke are the ones you don't want to have. Last year I had a hive that I started with a package that did not respond to any amount of smoke. So if you have to use a lot of smoke on a hive you should think of rqueening.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

Originally Posted by WillH

According to my experience, there are 2 types of hives. One that are sensitive to smoke and ones that are not. The ones sensitive to smoke are the ones you want to have. They are gentle and not aggressive. The ones not sensitive to smoke are the ones you don't want to have. Last year I had a hive that I started with a package that did not respond to any amount of smoke. So if you have to use a lot of smoke on a hive you should think of rqueening.

Agreed, I barely need to use smoke, a little bit when initially opening the hive & I usually hit em up with another puff when they're lined like soldiers up at the top bar of the frames motionlessly staring me down.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

I don't really know about the AMMOUNT of smoke , but to me , the TYPE of smoke does seem to make a difference.

I have been using cardboard , burlap , straw , wood pellets etc. , but this summer I harvested all the bobs from my Sumac tree , they burn cool and have a very nice aroma to them , it seems all my hives are a lot happier and gentler since I have been using it.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

Excessive smoke drives the bees off the combs or makes them run...including queens. Makes it exceedingly difficult to find her. Also, when making up nucs, too much smoke drives the bees down into the hive, off the combs you're pulling.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

>it saves time, trouble, and I think stress on the bees.

And I think it causes more stress on the bees to not use smoke. They recover from smoke in a matter of minutes. They recover from a defensive reaction to no smoke and a beekeeper upsetting them in about a week...

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

Bees seem to need a bit of time to react to smoke. When I pull a frame after smoke, many bees are still head down in uncapped honey. I give a hive several minutes after smoke to settle down, I can hear the roar subside.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

They recover from smoke in a matter of minutes. They recover from a defensive reaction to no smoke and a beekeeper upsetting them in about a week...

How do you know that? When I have used smoke, it appeared to agitate the bees (increased movement and buzz sound). When I don't use smoke, they just go about their business.

Altho, I would say that a smoker helps get the bees off the edges when it's time to replace supers. I brush them off with ferns (which are growing right there) but by the time I pick up the super, the bees are back on the edge. I hate that.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

>How do you know that?

Decades of observations on hundreds of hives with and without smoke. I don't use smoke when I'm looking for queens, and since I raise and sell queens that means I often don't use smoke. I know how a given hive reacts with and without it. I know how long after I smoke them that I have to smoke them again because it's wearing off. I know how long after getting really upset, they finally start acting normal again. In my backyard when queen rearing I'm in almost every hive almost every week and many nucs as well.

> When I have used smoke, it appeared to agitate the bees (increased movement and buzz sound).

A little more buzz is normal even when you pop an inner cover. A lot more agitation when smoking is a good indication that you're using too much smoke.

>When I don't use smoke, they just go about their business.

If you never upset them not using smoke then by all means continue. But I would not expect that to last. A strong hive in a dearth is not going to just go on about their business when you pop the top without any smoke.

I'm an advocate of the smoker. I think assuming that all those people for generations before you using it where just wasting time is a mistake. That said, I don't use much. I just light it, and have it there. I puff a little bit over the bees when first opening, and then sometimes use it to move bees to avoid crushing them - and I use it if they get mad.

Effective use of the smoker is an important part of learning to be a beekeeper. Once you can light one and keep it lit for an hour or more and really know how to use it - then you actually know when you don't need it.

Re: repruccisions of using too much smoke?

Can't argue with that. My 90 y.o. father used to raise bees and said the most important beekeeping tool is a smoker.

However, it seems non-intuitive that giving them a fire fright so that they rush to rescue their honey is less stressful for them than moving their frames around without smoke. BUT I'm new at this, so subject to change.

==

AFC: "That said, I don't use much. I just light it, and have it there."

Well, see. :lol:

One thing about beekeepers of the past, is they may not have had the zip-tight beesuits we have today, so smokers may have been more about them not getting stung, than an asset to the bees? I haven't gotten stung once yet, even when they have been angry, like when the hive got knocked over one evening by what must have been a black bear and I stacked it right back up (suited up). If smoke is really something beneficial to the bees, I'd change my opinion. If it's just for stings, meh.