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Hey guys...I know TCC is not exactly a hot bed for BB card collectors and even less so for Vintage BB card collectors, but a guy's gotta start somewhere!

Fot the past 3 years I have been interested in starting a group break that would specialize in ripping vintage packs of Baseball cards. Remember there was a time when there were no "hits" to chase? I know I'm one to talk but I'd like to get back to those times where we can collect for the player as well as cater to the "graders" out there that are uber-concious as to the investment or collectible potential of high grade vintage cards which is what you would be after in busting vintage wax.

So what's the format? As soon as payments are received we randomize the slot order using random.org. Say we have 12 slots purchased... we randomize the list of participants, and once randomized if you end up with slot #4, you will receive the 4th card pulled. We then randomize the slot order again and we do this as many times as we need to cover the amount of cards we expect to pull. Once all that is established we then randomize the order in which we open the products (although if any one product is particularly cheaper than the others that product will be placed last). That way if we don't have the same number of slots as cards, if anyone is shorted a card it will be from the least expensive product. Also, if any inserts are included in the packs those will be the last "cards" given out so once the final pack is opened we then go back and the 1st insert pulled would go to the next slot in line, and so on.

I know this may sound confusing but once we get into it I'm sure you will see how this is the most fair way to do it as well as a way to ensure that everyone gets something (although it's possible you may get a card less than others based on the random order of the final round.

All this will be established prior to opening any packs so everyone will know exactly which card they get. All pack openings will be on video and I will say the name of the person who will be getting the next card pulled as we slowly slide the cards off the top so everyone knows who gets what.

Cards would be well protected with the understanding that condition would be of primary importance!

So, that's the long read...next question is who would be interested in joining us?

Hey guys...I know this is a long shot as TCC is not exactly a hot bed for BB card collectors and even less so for Vintage BB card collectors, but a guy's gotta start somewhere!

Fot the past 3 years I have been interested in starting a group break that would specialize in ripping vintage packs of Baseball cards. Remember there was a time when there were no "hits" to chase? I know I'm one to talk but I'd like to get back to those times where we can collect for the player as well as cater to the "graders" out there that are uber-concious as to the investment or collectible potential of high grade vintage cards which is what you would be after in busting vintage wax.

So how to do it? The way I figure is there are a couple different ways to run this group. Either randomize the card order so you know before we break that you get (for example) the 2nd, 9th, and 21st card pulled... or we could do a randomized draft order and draft teams each time we break. The only hard part about that is that you could get shut out versus being guaranteed a certain number of cards by doing it the other way.

So what constitutes "vintage"? We all have a different opinion on this but I would like to be able to have a product list of at least 3 packs each time and focus on the 60's to early 70's (probably not going newer than 1972). I would also want to focus on PSA graded packs whenever possible due to the high number of resealed jobs out there.

So what's the cost? This is a tough one as we wouldn't really know the product list as the availability of packs are not automatic and we'd want to be able to take advantage of deals. I already have 3-4 people interested but I think to make this worthwhile we would need to look at a price range right around $80 from about 8-10 guys. That would give us a budget of about $700 to work with which should be able to garner 3 nice packs or one really nice one and two decent ones anyway. I am convinced that once we get this going it would grow to more participants which means more products (or lower prices) but we have to get it started first.

This would most likely be every two months as it takes awhile to find good deals out there and the breaks would all be on video of course. Team draft or card positioning randomizations would all be done prior to breaking the seal so all would know what cards they are getting as we bust the packs. Cards would be well protected with the understanding that condition would be of primary importance!

So, that's the long read...next question is who would be interested in joining us if we tried this? Say $80 every two months...does that work?

ALSO ,IM CLOSE TO FINISHING MY 1968 TOPPS BASEBALL PSA SET (NEED ABOUT 5 CARDS ) ...CAN YOU TRY TO HELP ME WITH A PACK BREAK ??? (ryan ROOKIE - PSA8 OR 9 LOOKS SOOOOOOOO GOOD)

Great, I'll count you in! I would send the cards out raw as pulled but if we want to do a group submission to PSA we could talk that through at that time. Don't know about a 68 pack Ryan series as that would probably be our entire budget but perhaps if we grow membership we would expand the budget and product list.

Think at times we could use the whole budget towards one big item or are you against that even with the smaller number of people?

And are we allowed to have more than one slot?

More than one slot is certainly welcome as we're not capped at number of participants. I'd be fine with the budget going towards one biggie but not in the beginning as I'd want to try to build this by allowing everyone to get multiple cards as opposed to just a chance at one card in a spendy pack.

We should have enough to make this work...now the hard part of finding the product that we trust and will also give us the most bang for our buck!

Would folks be ok with cello packs? You usually get more cards than in wax and historically the cards are better conditioned than in wax. The main issue I see is knowing who gets the first card so we would randomize our card order with our participants and then randomize the product list after that to determine what order we open the products as that should solve that issue. Also I would recommend that we do not include the inserts in the intitial count but put those at the end still distributing in the order that participants were placed by the randomizer. In other words...

Say pack 1 has 12 cards and an insert. Pack 2 has 8 cards and an insert, and pack 3 has 10 cards and an insert. We go in order for the first 12 cards, set that first insert aside and then proceed with the next packs 8 cards in order of the randomization (setting the insert aside) and so on. When we have assigned all the cards we go back and the first packs insert goes to the next person on the list, then the 2nd insert goes to the next person after that on the list, etc.. I hope that makes sense as it will be easier once we put actual numbers to it.

I am toying with the idea of a 65T or 66T pack for the first pack, a 67T or 68T pack for number two, and then depending on our budget that is left maybe a 72T pack?

Oh, and what are people's opinions of OPC packs as Baseball Card Exchange has some late 60's early 70's at decent prices compared to Topps.

ChrisThe card order idea and setting any inserts aside (I assume what you mean by that is the 67 poster or the 66 rub offs, etc) As far a OPC I am not a big fan of them, unless it is hockey. But then if its hockey it would be more than topps. Just my 2 cents