the IPCC drove the entire man made global warming lie. you can trace much of the original "research" back to them. the hangers on, and the folks who saw dollars (Gore) jumped on it.

Why the interest in climate change as a disaster? because the IPCC belings to the UN. what does the UN want? they are globalists. they want global controls and redistribution of wealth.

Examine the UN proposals for fixing global warming and what do they do? they give international control and redistribute wealth. not only is it not rocket science, it's no kind of science at all.

why do liberals always jump on this kind of stuff? because they are statists, globalists, and generally believe that man is bad. they just keep looking for ways to prove it.+ liberalism is based on emotion, so any story that causes the OMG reaction is for them.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Kathy- Hold on to your knickers :shock:I agree with almost all of that. I get the impression you believe positively that man has zero impact on the warming trend.I can't say definitively either way. Warming/Cooling trends are evident before the Industrial Revolution or potentially before man if that is one's belief. But the current trend does follow human progress.UN, Globalists, NWO, Agenda 21,as troublesome as they are, are not the exclusive domain of liberals.

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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

given a choice, we'd all do better with some warming than = degrees of cooling. we have seen both in history. man has done far better when it's been warmer. so....i'd say that the trend of mans progress follows the temps, not the other way around.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Several charts here. See first chart- Global Temps 1850-2008The overall trend is up0.8° not down. Easy to see a few cooling trends in that same period- note1880-1910 roughly 30 yrs=0.3° decrease, also 1940-1970 roughly 30yrs=0.15°decrease.

Notice a pattern? I do.

Perhaps a more telling graph is further down the page-charts 4&5That is what I mean by temps. following mans progress.

Could it be a natural occurrence? PossiblyCould it be influenced by humans? PossiblyI don't know. But I wouldn't completely dismiss it as some do.

By the way folks, I'm just regular guy with an internet connection. It doesn't take long to find information IF you look. And keep an open mind.

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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

The problem with statistical predictions is that they always plot a trend and then extend the line out and say that's where we are going to end up. In reality everything (the econmoy, the climate, etc.) has feedback mechanisms and points of diminishing returns where things NEVER go in a straight line in the current direction. Almost always, something balances things out in the long run. The prediction of an ice age in the 70's and the prediction of global warming are two examples of this error. Personally I think warming sounds much more appealing than another ice age...

Completely agree. Predictions are iffy propositions at best.I do find historical trends useful however as an indicator not as a certainty. We all know "What goes up must come down". How or when that happens is a guess at best.

I've rather enjoyed our unseasonably mild summer temps. Now if we could just do something with this humidity.

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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

The unfortunate thing about global warming (or cooling) is human kind has added an unprecedented variable into a very complex system that apparently nobody (our models) really understands yet. Only the Good Lord knows for sure what the result will be. Yet Fox and many Beeks claim to KNOW the outcome of this vast experiment….and they don’t even need any DATA! This is truly an amazing skill. :laugh: Y’all must have been real good in Chemistry class. :lau:

We know in a laboratory that CO2 absorbs long wave radiation and slows its escape into space; hence creating a greenhouse effect. It’s logical to think that MIGHT also occur in the Atmosphere too. Last time I knew, even the conservatives needed the atmosphere to live. Is it really a good place to be dumping 30 GIGATONs of fossil fuel waste a year? Ever hear the old saying about peeing in the pool :?

I’m not claiming Detroit is going to have to be re-named New Tampa in the next decade; because I don’t know. We might just be having a lucky break of diminished solar output, higher planetary albedo, ocean current cycles, etc. I think it’s foolish to BELIEVE the system can compensate for any amount of trash we throw into it. Anybody recall what happened to the rivers around Cleveland when they kept on dumping trash in them?

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Moots

...We know in a laboratory that CO2 absorbs long wave radiation and slows its escape into space; hence creating a greenhouse effect. It’s logical to think that MIGHT also occur in the Atmosphere too....

It's also logical to think that it MIGHT NOT also occur in the Atmosphere. The list of things that have been shown to occur in the controlled environment of a lab that don't translate to real world situations is rather lengthy. :)

Yet Fox and many Beeks claim to KNOW the outcome of this vast experiment…

seriously?

those of us who claim NOT to know, are called deniers, neanderthals, ignorant red necks.....

the only side that has been dogmatic about it is the side that has made a religion (and lots of money) out of the pseudoscience of "climate change".

"ok, ok, it's not global warming anymore, it's' climate change. it's still happening and whatever it is, it's still mans fault!" there is nothing more entertaining that watching leftists scramble to prove what they have already claimed.....

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

I remember reading that one of the changes global warming will bring about is - an ice age. Something about after a certain amount of the ice is gone the currents from up top will slow or stop. Then without the warmer water moving back up the ice caps will begin to grow, and grow, and grow. I couldn't tell you if there even is a north pole let alone if what I just posted is accurate.

For some interesting reading Bing or Google "mini ice age". Remember reading about Gen Washington crossing the Delaware? He had a lot of problems getting across, why? ice. It seems we were going through a mini ice age back then.

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When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.

Interesting article that shows a possible link in sun activity and global warming/cooling. I notice the times of decreased activity correspond roughly with periods of cooling.

They of course insert the pollution aspect, which is out of context when the main subject of the article is the sun and its relation to the earth.

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Quite difficult matters can be explained even to a slow-witted man, if only he has not already adopted a wrong opinion about them; but the simplest things cannot be made clear even to a very intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, and knows indubitably, the truth of the matter under consideration. -Leo Tolstoy

tecumseh..glad to see my buddy iddee is now listening to the main stream media!

another snip....those of us who claim NOT to know, are called deniers, neanderthals, ignorant red necks.....

tecumseh...most educated folks of almost any stripe speak in terms of a probability statement since nothing in the FUTURE is ABSOLUTELY written in stone. only the really really uninformed speak in terms of knowing something in an absolute way. of course if you speak with little understanding and your stance suggest that you don't wish to know more and you continue to wallow in your lack of information then naturally folks may place you in a category that make you feel uncomfortable. some folks (at least as suggested in this thread) understanding of things like science and statistics seems to be extremely simplistic if not naive.

any number of folks who I know who are 'into' (in a professional sense of the word) this particular topic inform me that you are confusing this issue if you adhere to the tag 'global warming' and it is more accurate to call this 'global climate change'.... which suggest that global weather pattern will become more extreme and less predictable. < my only real interest in the topic is that certain known agricultural production areas are quite likely to see wide variation in production and therefore the prices of basic inputs is also quite likely to be unpredictable.

X:X Right on tecumseh, we must learn and abide by the "absolutes" and discuss and debate the "relatives"

Its the straying from and/or mingling of the two that always cause us trouble........... ;) Humans seem to prefer changing relatives into absolutes whenever it fits their current worldview which always results in 'sides being chosen' for all the wrong reasons. So it goes.........

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

and it is more accurate to call this 'global climate change'.... which suggest that global weather pattern will become more extreme and less predictable.

that's because we haven't had any warming for going on 20 years now. they had to come up with a new tag.

when has the weather been predictable? and...i know this is confusing to the true believers, but in spite of a few news grabbing storms, the statistics say that the weather had not been more extreme...in fact, less extreme.

might be that we are entering a period of global moderate weather. OH, THE HUMANITY.....just give them a second to figure out how that's a disaster!that is, if the coming ice age doesn't get us first!

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Alexis de Tocqueville

Moots

any number of folks who I know who are 'into' (in a professional sense of the word) this particular topic inform me that you are confusing this issue if you adhere to the tag 'global warming' and it is more accurate to call this 'global climate change'.... which suggest that global weather pattern will become more extreme and less predictable.

** emphasis added

LOL :lau:

kathy, you have to give it to the libs, it's a stroke of marketing genius...."GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE"!!! They have all bases covered...If it gets warmer...or cooler, or rains more...or less, or snows more...or less, or if the wind blows more...or less...etc. etc. etc.

THEY TOLD US SO...THEY "CORRECTLY" PREDICTED IT WOULD HAPPEN...WE JUST WOULDN'T LISTEN! :lau: :lau: :lau:

The only thing not funny about the whole thing is that people are stupid enough to believe them and keep drinking the Kool-aid!

Global warming, RIGHT. First time in my life I have seen it snow here before Thanksgiving. An inch on the ground now and still coming.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

The only thing not funny about the whole thing is that people are stupid enough to believe them and keep drinking the Kool-aid!

if it were only people drinking Kool aid, i would not care. there is a whole globalist redistribution scheme going on in the UN over this. that is the entire point of the climate change garbage.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....