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The complaints (mostly) are not that WoW is bad. It's that the model is getting boring. I'm tired of hearing about it. Yes, we get it, it has a large sub base. Can we try something different now?

“There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”-- Herman Melville

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Racial starter areas are like first impressions.. they don't matter in the long run.

Starter variety in MMOs is overrated and any learned MMO player knows that part of the game is not the part that counts. I'd rather have multiple (or even more) endgame areas instead of multiple starter areas. I will spend more time in them and will get to see them all without them being underlevel for my character no matter what race a choose to play.

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Originally posted by Genadi

Originally posted by Aviggin

Originally posted by DavisFlight[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Playing the game in 2004 felt very innovative when compared to the rest of the genre. The other MMO's available were basically just grinding mobs, with a bit of story that is kinda in the background for you to either delve into or not. Personally, I found it funny when games like SWTOR said they were attempting to be innovative by adding a "fourth pillar" as story. WoW is the first MMO that really tried to press the story aspect through the quest system and didn't just expect most of the story to be learned through websites and such. Whether you personally believe that WoW is innovative or not, they are pioneers of the MMO genre as it currently stands today, and whether you think that's for better or worse, that doesn't matter. It is what it is.

After 8 years and many copies, you may have skewed thoughts of innovation in terms of WoW, but if you played MMO's back before 2004, you'd realize that WoW was MUCH different compared to other games, and they completely changed many aspects of previous MMO's beforehand.

I will agree that most MMO's have racial starting areas, though, assuming the game has multiple races.

Your response to someone saying WoW isn't innovative is "Look at what it was like in 2004" is kinda agreeing with the guy you're trying to disagree with.

FTR - UO and even EQ did all of those things long before WoW, yes even the storylines.

The game came out in 2004 and was leaps and bounds beyond anything else that was currently on the market to many people. There's a reason the genre began to to clone WoW and not EQ.

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Originally posted by fixif

There is in fact a lot of things. If WoW was ONLY copy/paste why any other game didn't succeed in making such large following? Mind you, marketing was not all that big for it at the launch as it is today. Please hold back from bad analogoies with pop-culture "If a lot of people listens to Britney Spears, doesn't mean it's good":

You can hate all you want, but to be honest, none of the other AAA titles didn't come even close to WoW in terms of anything. There are games that are better in some areas then WoW but in others just suck. WoW hit the middle ground and that's it.

I understand that people don't like WoW, but I will never understand the hate and just plain ignorance. I guess it's popular around here.

The underlined part:

That is exactly correct. WoW had a big following while it was in development. As a Warcraft 2, Diablo 1 and 2 fan, and a former MUD player who had gone on to play EQ1, I was absolutely estatic when I learned about WoW being in development back in 2001. I was so excited and the screenies I saw back then were amazing! Everyone in my 30 member gaming clan knew about it, was excited to try it and planned to get it as soon as it released.

Just simple word-of-mouth. None of the MMOs really advertized that much back then. I followed WoW's development until a little bit after release when I got it and played with clanmates and real friends. More people were recruited just through talking to friends, family, etc.

I wasn't sure how they would react at first, but the streamlined UI was friendly enough for them to get into the game. I don't think any of us though expected WoW to become as huge as it did.

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Originally posted by joonkp1976World of Warcraft isn't so bad when it comes down to each races' having their own startings. Sure the graphics makes you barf your lunch pizza although it is kinda fun. Questing isn't so bad for casual players to intermediate players although it leaves out feeling of much ease for hardcore players like me. Now the skills and spells. Innovative at least. Although games like AION just blows WOW away in the contest of graphics you gotta understand that WOW was the first that came out with 'Full Leveling Through Questing' motto whereas AION really is just Lineage 2 + WOW at heart. I have been a basher of WOW for years but now I think am maturing a bit more where I can appreciate mild MMORPGs... Still a hardcore MMORPG fan here... Anyways with the outdated graphics engine WOW probably had only few more years of its life and if World of Warcraft 2 was to be released with modern graphics engine and better graphics quality, you can count me in in the lines of alpha, beta, retails... So Blizzard, PLEASE, work on World of Warcraft 2~! Cheers until then, folks~!

hey, another WOW is #1 and invented it all! thread.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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The game came out in 2004 and was leaps and bounds beyond anything else that was currently on the market to many people. There's a reason the genre began to to clone WoW and not EQ.

This is an interesting point, especially in light of the fact that in my opinion nothing new has really come out since WoW's release that is truly better at doing the whole themepark thing. Another good quest-based themepark, in my opinion, is EQ2 though it is just a tad older than WoW.

GW2 is the only game I thought was really quite good for what it did since WoW's release, but it is still not as engaging as either EQ2 or WoW to me. All of the other themeparks I have tried have fallen way short.

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WoW isn't that bad when I think about it.

Which is why I should confine my future endeavors with WoW to thoughts only! :-)

The problem is that WoW changed a lot since it's original conception in 2004. It started as a more accessible and graphically superior version of EverQuest in an almost seemless world. Then when subscriptions began peaking around the transition between BC & WotLK, Blizzard got this wonderful idea that to keep their game growing they needed to make general content ultra casual friendly, with endgame progressively targeting a more casual playerbase. Then subscriptions topped at ~ 12 million worldwide (including China) and began tanking downward in around 2011.

The dumbed down casual version of WoW is but a shell of the artistic mastery & great pastime it once was. It's not even from an elitist point of view. Very little is challenging now, and dungeons are so streamlined it's rediculous. Look at BRS, LBRS / UBRS, Dire Maul, Karazan, and Ulduarr if you want to see how much effort Blizzard "USED" to put into their work.

So alas, to your own statement, WoW isn't that bad when I think about it ... and to keep it a great game, in my memories is where it should stay. :P

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Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Genadi

Originally posted by kalinis

I don't understand peoples issue with wow's graphics they aren't that bad, I find them much better then alot of other games ive tried like lotro and warhammer. They are way better them champions online.

I actually perfer wows stylized graphics to more realistic graphics. Plus wow plays easy and i love to quest in it. I don't care if people hate wow thats there choice.

I don't really care if wow innovated anything or not. What they did do though was perfect. The everquest style game and make it mainstream Something no other mmo has managed to do.

If u dont like themeparks fine. I don't like sandbox games. Thats just me

That said the graphics in wow aren't anywhere near as bad as people say. They just don't like the stylized graphics in general and rage on and on about that.

Also to blame wow as most wow haters do for what other devs choose to do in copying wow is stupid. As its not wows fault devs choose to try to make wow 2 and fail miserably while never inventing anything new.

A huge part of mmorpg's (or at least it used to be) is immersion. If you think about it from that angle you might start to understand why people have issues with WoW's cartoony graphics.

Eye of the beholder.

I find WoW's graphics way more immersive than those of EVE even though EVE is supposed to have 'better' graphics. The cartoony graphics are perfect for immersing me in a low fantasy setting.

Wow's "graphics" is a style choice they chose based off of their art style and direction from Warcraft 3 and allowed them to expand with technology. The low polygon count on their models and props freed up assets that allowed them to have smoother animation and more responsive client/server interaction. They basically went with gameplay first, then "graphics" which is what a lot of people still use as a warcry on these forums.