As the title says what back ground material in Hell on Earth tells us about the time of Dead Lands Noir?

To start as some one said in another thread today (new member Bluegrass in his first post) brought up some thought no one else has has noticed

Bluegrass wrote:

... One of the things that I'm really curious about is what kind - if any - interplay there will be between DL:N and Classics Hell On Earth. For example: Will the Noir Campanion give us more background on the war between Eliot Ness and (according to The Last Crusaders) a Reckenor-backed Al Capone? The same book mentions that Sgt. Alvin York taught at the Confederate Syker Academy in 1924.... does this mean that Arcane Background: Psionics will be available in Deadlands: Noir?

The Templar saints in Last Crusaders actually give us most of our details about the world at that time._________________"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Well, we know from Iron Oasis that Hellstromme had returned to the City of Gloom in 1917. Also that during the 20's is when the Junkyard residents dug the second sublevel.

I was reading Jo's Journal from the Wasted West just yesterday and read that Hellstromme returned as an Automaton in 191X ( I could've swore it was 1914, but I'm good with 1917). Noir could tell in detail how the world accepted that and what part did the group of good-hearted fellows, whose identity is a mystery, play in it.

One thing I'm curious of is what's what in the City of Lost Angels.

SPOILERS for the The Flood plot point and Hell on Earth background!

In the Flood, Lost Angels gets flooded. However, in the Jo's Journal of Wasted West companion book, it doesn't mention the city's current state. This is curious since it states that the city gets destroyed and flooded in an attempt to take out Famine. I doubt that killing off one horseman's stead is going to get retconned.

So I'm interested in The Celestial City's condition in the time between 1880 and 2081. Of course, one possible explanation is that since HoE is the worst possible future of the Weird West, the darkest timeline if you will, it cannot happen on the same timeline as the Flood's plot points.

Of course, one possible explanation is that since HoE is the worst possible future of the Weird West, the darkest timeline if you will, it cannot happen on the same timeline as the Flood's plot points.

Then you don't listen to the things said by the Deadlands Brand Manager. _________________"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Of course, one possible explanation is that since HoE is the worst possible future of the Weird West, the darkest timeline if you will, it cannot happen on the same timeline as the Flood's plot points.

Then you don't listen to the things said by the Deadlands Brand Manager.

I feel like I've missed some new-ish comments. I was skimming through my old Hoe books last weekend and in some book (my bet's on The Wasted West) it said that Hell on Earth is the worst possible future for the Weird West. Has this changed?

I believe that ValhallaGH is referring to Cutter's comments here and here (see response to question 4), which suggest that the worst possible future (Hell on Earth) was still going to happen even if the heroes seemed to have prevented it (e.g. in Devil's Tower) and that there was "one timeline".

With this interpretation, Noir is part of the (official) Deadlands timeline where the heroes didn't win (due to the Reckoners' intervention), which will eventually result in the Hell on Earth timeline. So it's not only the worst possible future, but also the possible future that is 100% going to happen. And yes, that would also mean that all the stuff they say about the heroes of Deadlands being able to avert Hell on Earth isn't true .

That's my (probably fallible) interpretation anyway and it still doesn't explain why Lost Angels would be flooded in Deadlands, back around in Noir, and then (presumably) gone again in Hell on Earth, which was your original point._________________Wild Card Creator: Any PDF, Any Setting, No Extra Cost.

With this interpretation, Noir is part of the (official) Deadlands timeline where the heroes didn't win (due to the Reckoners' intervention), which will eventually result in the Hell on Earth timeline. So it's not only the worst possible future, but also the possible future that is 100% going to happen. And yes, that would also mean that all the stuff they say about the heroes of Deadlands being able to avert Hell on Earth isn't true

Of course heroes can avert Hell on Earth. Anything can happen in your game, and all our stories allow for that possibility.

Can your heroes do anything to stop Hell on Earth (the book) from being published? Probably not. So in the "official" timeline, Hell on Earth happens.

...and it still doesn't explain why Lost Angels would be flooded in Deadlands, back around in Noir, and then (presumably) gone again in Hell on Earth, which was your original point.

The world's full of cities that have been destroyed or nearly so and then rebuilt. About 80% of San Francisco was destroyed when it had a population over 12 times what Lost Angels had, and it was rebuilt in less than 10 years.

At that rate, we could easily destroy Lost Angels 10 more times before HOE occurs. _________________Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

By the way, the new Hell on Earth Reloaded clearly says that Lost Angels was rebuilt:

Quote:

Eventually, a party of unnamed heroes figured out how to put [Grimm] down and did so—by levelling Lost Angels. The church stayed flat for a while, and the nearby town of Perdition rose on the peaks overlooking the ruins. That lasted a while, then a new “City of Lost Angels” rose closer inland. The remaining congregation built black obsidian walls around the inner city and kept mostly to themselves for the next two centuries.

So there you go. Rebuilt just in time for Noir!_________________Wild Card Creator: Any PDF, Any Setting, No Extra Cost.

By the way, the new Hell on Earth Reloaded clearly says that Lost Angels was rebuilt:

Quote:

Eventually, a party of unnamed heroes figured out how to put [Grimm] down and did so—by levelling Lost Angels. The church stayed flat for a while, and the nearby town of Perdition rose on the peaks overlooking the ruins. That lasted a while, then a new “City of Lost Angels” rose closer inland. The remaining congregation built black obsidian walls around the inner city and kept mostly to themselves for the next two centuries.

I'm curious to see how the First World War plays out in the Deadlands 'verse. For instance:

The Reckoners did everything they could to drag out the American Civil War. Did they have their hands in the First World War? Did they cause it to start earlier or drag on longer than it did in our reality?

From Classic HoE, we know that the Confederate States entered the war on the side of the Allied Powers -- and both HoE Reloaded and the Deadlands: Noir Kickstarter says that when pushed came to shove, the US and CS would join forces against a common enemy. Was this the case with the First World War, or did the United States join the Central Powers?

I'm curious to see how the First World War plays out in the Deadlands 'verse.

Brainburners (6002) page 7. The USA and CSA both joined up in 1917, against the Germans.

No comments about them dragging it out, but that war was horrible enough that it didn't need supernatural increases in fear. (It probably had a few, but the return on investment was piddly - humans made that fight terrifying enough.)
The Reckoners probably tried to extend it, but there is only so much they could do._________________"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."