anyway, good video (like all of them so far), and good call on Badgirl, i kinda forgot about her in lue of the fights with Jean and Henry also, Jeans back-story is pretty messed up if go back a really listen (or read in my case).

I did post this one much sooner than usual...And yeah, I LOVE Badgirl. Best boss fight ever.

yes you did. she is a good boss fight, one of the few i had to redo cause she kicked my ass.

also, not sure i agree totally with the bit about 'not good if fiction is the only place your getting your fulfillment' comment, though i admittedly don't really have much of a counter for it other then 'life tends to suck, so i hunt 2 story tall, 4 arm and winged monsters for fun cause reality seems set on not giving me anything to look forward to' course, i also realize, this probably makes me as bad as Travis

You're self aware. That's more progress than Travis will ever get.

And life doesn't exactly deal everyone a fair deck. Give it time and be stubborn. Something will work.

I did post this one much sooner than usual...And yeah, I LOVE Badgirl. Best boss fight ever.

yes you did. she is a good boss fight, one of the few i had to redo cause she kicked my ass.

also, not sure i agree totally with the bit about 'not good if fiction is the only place your getting your fulfillment' comment, though i admittedly don't really have much of a counter for it other then 'life tends to suck, so i hunt 2 story tall, 4 arm and winged monsters for fun cause reality seems set on not giving me anything to look forward to' course, i also realize, this probably makes me as bad as Travis

You're self aware. That's more progress than Travis will ever get.

And life doesn't exactly deal everyone a fair deck. Give it time and be stubborn. Something will work.

so that puts me on par with ... Bad Girl? XD

and i haven't, totally, given up on something coming along, would prefer 'some one' but that's not a discussion in wanna get into on a forum.

I still can't help but think that you are thinking about these characters too much in terms of western morality. Something like the Bushido code does not value acting like a sane person who is not a psychopath or even self preservation.

When you look compare someone like Travis to Destroyman and say they are both violent psychos who will end up dead. What is actually playing out is a fight with one person who has no virtue, in their terms, fighting someone who does. Naturally they are both violent people so should expect to die but Destroyman doesn't even do that properly. What is important for characters like this is that they meet a good honourable death, not surviving.

The main philosopher folk hero of Japan, Miyamoto Musashi, was basically a psycho who travelled around Japan killing people until he became recognised as the number one duellist. It is not expected that people like that are bound to die due to poetic justice, he lived to an old age and was revered as a great teacher. But it is expected that they would be willing to face death.

I don't want to come across as all, "I'm an expert on Japanese culture," or anything but this is pretty well known stuff, near the surface.

I think that you are right in pointing that No More Heroes is a game that takes violence seriously and debunks the idea of heroes or heroic fantasy. But on the other hand it does reinforce the idea that being a warrior with a code like a samurai or cowboy is better than being someone who just gets off on violence. Even if you don't have a goal you can have a code or standards.

I've been waiting until the third part of this was done, brilliant work as always, before passing any comments and I'll start with a general observation: You tend to focus a lot on what's contained within the narrative and the cinematic sequences without much focus on the gameplay itself even where it supports your points.

For example: when deconstructing the character of Holly Summers, after identifying the character's connection with death there was no comment on how in battle what could effectively be considered her signature move is to bury the player alive. I understand given the time constraints that you can't cover all the elements that exists within the source material but this seemed particularly egregious as an observation that heavily supports your theories.

This is also relevant when considering the battle with Shinobu; it is worthy of note that up until this point in the game the bosses haven't been especially challenging - their attacks have been well telegraphed and their patterns easy to learn, furthermore the player can attack at any time they're not actively required to dodge an attack from the boss. By contrast, Shinobu's attacks are fast, versatile, and she ruthlessly punishes any attempt by the player to deal damage while she's not already locked into a combo. It is my belief that this has a link with his decision to spare her life at the end of the battle; the element of doubt is over which is cause and which is effect.

One interpretation is that it hints at the point Holly makes - that at this point in the narrative Travis is unable to kill a woman. The sudden leap in difficulty therefore is caused by Travis himself and his unwillingness to fight Shinobu. The cinematic after the battle then shows him giving the rationale that he wants to fight her again later when she's stronger as a retrospective justification he's using to explain an action that Travis himself doesn't understand. (I'm sure I've heard this explanation somewhere before, wish I could remember where to give due credit, oh well - unknown source, not my own work)

The alternative is that Travis chooses to spare Shinobu for the reason he stated, and that this decision is influenced by how she proved to be the greatest challenge he has experienced so far. This doesn't necessarily hold water as well as the last explanation though, as there has been only sketchy hints that Travis gets a thrill out of being challenged. That he gets a thrill out of victory and conquest is not in doubt, but it's left ambiguous whether he likes these victories to be difficult or effortless. He says many times that he wants to BE the best, I'm not aware of any points that he says he wants to FIGHT the best. The fact that he's killing all the other assassins seems pointedly anti-competitive.

Your decision to skip Letz Shake also struck me as bizarre. True, the player doesn't fight him, but that's kind of the point, the whole sequence is one of denied satisfaction. Travis is denied his kill, the player is denied the boss battle, Letz Shake himself never gets to use his massive... piece of equipment. His name is in and of itself an open challenge that never gets answered, and this is without even looking at how the character behaves.

As a last point, I would call into question your summary that Suda51's jibes at the expense of the player are good-natured. The reason for this is the way the message of the material is conveyed. Accepting your statement that the game's main message is that of there being no meaning or justification in death; and that the decision to fast-forward the game's closing sequences, as well as leaving the plot riddled with holes by the twist that removes what flimsy justification Travis had for his killing spree, the game doesn't seem to credit the player with the capability to make their own decision on this important message.

You highlighted the issue with people in general not questioning the media they consume, what is this game doing if not encouraging the same? It removes the context from the events, using the plot holes and fast-forwarded conclusion to remove any rationale for the violence and killing. This stops the player from weighing any of it on its own merits, removing the chance to formulate their own, informed decision and forcing them instead to accept the game's evaluation. In my opinion this is not the work of someone who is encouraging discussion, this is someone who is dictating a conclusion to it.

Very much enjoying watching your videos, also looking forward to Majora's Mask.

PS. A theory for Speed Buster (note that I have never played this part of the game and only have your summary and that of others in this thread to go on) I would suggest that she represents the inevitability and finality of death. She begins by demonstrating this to Travis by killing his mentor. As has already been identified, she is the oldest member of the cast and so the closest to death, and is garbed as if in mourning. Lastly, she is overweight, hinting at physical frailty, and is reliant on a cumbersome piece of equipment to fight rather than her own skill. I don't think the phallic imagery of the cannon is relevant to the character as an individual, but is more a continuation with the linking of violence with gratification communicated in the most basic manner that has been an ongoing theme throughout the game.

Tying in my point about combat mechanics being relevant, in the battle itself Travis becomes the representation of death in this enactment. Speed Buster is immobile (or so I've heard), relying on being able to gun Travis down before he reaches her; this is symbolic of how we all do as much as we can to resist death but cannot move away from it or avoid it and - much like a player who can retry as many times as they have patience for - it gets us all in the end. (normally I'd be hesitant to use a player's respawn mechanic as symbolism of anything but 'No More Heroes' leans on the fourth wall so much I figured it was relevant) This is emphasised by the final cinematic of the encounter in which Travis executes Speed Buster with no further resistance.

That said, this is highly based on an interpretation that places meaning in death, which the game actively calls the observer out on, so make of it what you will.

Typical disclaimer: Time contraints. I can't talk about everything, as my series would be to long for a large audience to enjoy. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy further discussion, so on that note...

More Fun To Compute:I still can't help but think that you are thinking about these characters too much in terms of western morality. Something like the Bushido code does not value acting like a sane person who is not a psychopath or even self preservation.

Factoring in cultural influence is always important, but there are some other things worth noting: This game was heavily inspired by both american and japanese entertainment (And some other western cultures). Wrestling, cowboys and superheroes are featured as prominantly as Japanese archetypes like Shinobu and Death Metal ('honorable' warriors). I think that Shinobu's indiscriminate killing reflects the hypocrisy of traditional honor. Just because Suda is from Japan doesn't mean he admires every aspect of his countries traditions. Several Anime directors and musical artists are known pacifists who hate violence in any context, such as Hayao Miyazaki (who frequently includes anti-war messages in his movies) and Susumu Hirasawa (who has released an entire album for free in protest of modern wars.)

Shinobu was not threatened by the classmates she killed, for instance.

The main philosopher folk hero of Japan, Miyamoto Musashi, was basically a psycho who travelled around Japan killing people until he became recognised as the number one duellist. It is not expected that people like that are bound to die due to poetic justice, he lived to an old age and was revered as a great teacher. But it is expected that they would be willing to face death.

And further, Travis sounds like he could be an outright deconstruction of that folk hero. That sounds like the exact mentality this game is Satirizing. Trav's only redeeming quality is that he's good at fighting.

Japan makes A LOT of pacifist fiction nowadays, so I don't think that cultural standards can be applied to any citizen that happens to come from a certain country. Every now and then you have an America author demonize democracy in fiction, for example. And capitalism is a prime target for several of our creators. Bioshock is a deconstruction of Ayn Rand's objectvism: Cultures can oppose there typical ideals.

I think that you are right in pointing that No More Heroes is a game that takes violence seriously and debunks the idea of heroes or heroic fantasy. But on the other hand it does reinforce the idea that being a warrior with a code like a samurai or cowboy is better than being someone who just gets off on violence. Even if you don't have a goal you can have a code or standards.

It certainly hints at it during Trav's rare moments of mercy. I think you have a point.

In the sequel, Trav does some growing up and learns what death is really all about. So your ideas are more relevant to that game. And I'll certainly address them there.

Thanks for the comment yo. :D It was interesting and got me thinking about some new things.

As always I love your comments...which is why it's a shame that my general response this time is 'time constraints suck.'

I edited out somethings mentioning Trav's issues with killing women for time, and also cut out some stuff about the fight with Harvey being extremely theatric. Those ARE important, but I felt everything else was more important, and I like to tackle only one or two main themes at a time and make a concise video.

I like the theory regarding Speed Buster. :D And Gameplay was important of course but...well, the cutscenes were slightly more blatant and easier to explain, and the footage of the cutscenes was more clear and easier to display in a way that was understandable as opposed to ICONS, BLOOD, COINS EVERYWHERE, SUDDEN CHANGES IN CAMERA ANGLES ya know, that stuff.

So yeah...I just had to hurry up. And unlike any other game I tackled, no one played this one XD, so I just didn't want to spoil the best jokes. I had a whole joke written about Travis being deprived of his stiffy in rank 5, thus showing that he's in it for the gratification. But I just didn't want to ruin the joke. This is a very funny game.

Also, yeah, maybe I'm being nice to Suda51. I just don't think criticism is synonymous with a demand for censorship or change. But it's hard to deny that the man seemingly never displays violence in any context as a 'good' thing.

As always, I make these vids to make people think, not to tell them what to think. And given your comment and the others, it seems to be working. I've gotten a dozen different theories on Speed Buster in the last three days. XD

I didn't mean to suggest that Suda51 might be advocating censorship or control of the medium, that's at the other end of an extreme spectrum. Perhaps saying it wasn't good-natured was a poor choice of words. What I meant to communicate was that he doesn't seem to have any respect for an opposing viewpoint (while still recognising that the media he critiques has the right to exist).

Hydro14:I didn't mean to suggest that Suda51 might be advocating censorship or control of the medium, that's at the other end of an extreme spectrum. Perhaps saying it wasn't good-natured was a poor choice of words. What I meant to communicate was that he doesn't seem to have any respect for an opposing viewpoint (while still recognising that the media he critiques has the right to exist).

Maybe.

I'd find it interesting if in the rumored third game he presents a parallel of a gamer whose mature and adjusted as Trav's new foil.

Overusedname:Factoring in cultural influence is always important, but there are some other things worth noting: This game was heavily inspired by both american and japanese entertainment (And some other western cultures). Wrestling, cowboys and superheroes are featured as prominantly as Japanese archetypes like Shinobu and Death Metal ('honorable' warriors). I think that Shinobu's indiscriminate killing reflects the hypocrisy of traditional honor. Just because Suda is from Japan doesn't mean he admires every aspect of his countries traditions. Several Anime directors and musical artists are known pacifists who hate violence in any context, such as Hayao Miyazaki (who frequently includes anti-war messages in his movies) and Susumu Hirasawa (who has released an entire album for free in protest of modern wars.)

Shinobu was not threatened by the classmates she killed, for instance.

Saying that Suda was inspired by American entertainment is misleading in part I think. He is inspired by British post punk music and in the case of No More Heroes, El Topo which is not from the USA. The "santa destroy" setting of no more heroes is pure Americana but that can possibly be misleading. Perhaps more easily so if you are from the USA.

A thing about Suda is that he is more casual about causality and even intention than you might think. That isn't the important thing, the focus, maybe. I believe that with Suda Battles Without Honor and Humanity is more of a reference point than Nausicaš.

And further, Travis sounds like he could be an outright deconstruction of that folk hero. That sounds like the exact mentality this game is Satirizing. Trav's only redeeming quality is that he's good at fighting.

I agree with the deconstruction but Travis is not just good at fighting in my opinion. At least he is not as bad at living as you imply. Compared to, say, an accomplished artist and overall winner like A. Hitler.

It certainly hints at it during Trav's rare moments of mercy. I think you have a point.

In the sequel, Trav does some growing up and learns what death is really all about. So your ideas are more relevant to that game. And I'll certainly address them there.

Thanks for the comment yo. :D It was interesting and got me thinking about some new things.

Well the sequel seems more applicable to your commentary than the original in that Travis shows more "western" character growth. But it also has things that support my interpretations.

My point is Suda is telling a global story, not a japanese story. And every millisecond of the game supports that idea. The thing is, I struggle to think of something that doesn't support that. An American Otaku who also likes mexican wrestling = no culture is exempt from this obsession with violence. It's set in America, has a wide range of characters from different ages and backgrounds and races and genders.

Japan is an island nation, but it's not on another planet. Suda is blatantly calling out society, including his own, and every other first world country he can think of.

We no longer live in an age were artistic influence is limited to were someone was born. And if anything, NMH is the most blatant example of that since the western anime that is Avatar the Last Airbender. Other than the fact that Japan's mainstream art is more liberal, this could have just as easily been an american game. It just wouldn't have been as (slightly) popular as it was.

Things mean different things in different cultures. Usually. But never always. ESPECIALLY in new media. We are not supposed to worship Travis. He's a funny, entertaining character that grows on you, yes, but he's shameless and self-aware satire. Suda51 is a gore-hating former undertaker, not an honorable samurai.

Overusedname:My point is Suda is telling a global story, not a japanese story. And every millisecond of the game supports that idea. The thing is, I struggle to think of something that doesn't support that. An American Otaku who also likes mexican wrestling = no culture is exempt from this obsession with violence. It's set in America, has a wide range of characters from different ages and backgrounds and races and genders.

Japan is an island nation, but it's not on another planet. Suda is blatantly calling out society, including his own, and every other first world country he can think of.

We no longer live in an age were artistic influence is limited to were someone was born. And if anything, NMH is the most blatant example of that since the western anime that is Avatar the Last Airbender. Other than the fact that Japan's mainstream art is more liberal, this could have just as easily been an american game. It just wouldn't have been as (slightly) popular as it was.

Things mean different things in different cultures. Usually. But never always. ESPECIALLY in new media. We are not supposed to worship Travis. He's a funny, entertaining character that grows on you, yes, but he's shameless and self-aware satire. Suda51 is a gore-hating former undertaker, not an honorable samurai.

Every millisecond supports the idea that this is a global story? Come on, really.

In my experience Suda is not someone who promotes a bland globalised sort of culture that crosses borders without misinterpretation. That is the sort of American cultural imperialism that has all but ruined Hollywood as something with something interesting to say. What he likes is a clash of cultures, things that are hard to swallow and understand, things torn out of context and put somewhere were they stand out like a sort thumb.

Travis is part projection of Suda into the game, with things like his love of designer jeans and mexican wrestling. Him liking designer jeans could be seen a comment on global culture and violence I suppose. When do we just stop and think we are reaching too hard to find things that confirm our own prejudices of what message the game is trying to tell us?

I think a fair amount of the game is just a collage with elements chosen using techniques that you could just call random or based on the personal interests of Suda.

I think my fav theory thus far is that Speed Buster and her intro represents the real plot of the game. Not that I can explain that without spoiling everything.

Though that segment was funny as hell, so I'm okay with the lack of analysis for her. And Bad Girl's analysis more than makes up for it.

And in regards to the conversation above me: Suda rarely does anything for the sake of randomness. Though he does sometimes, for the most part he thinks his stuff through. And he clearly has various cultural influences: he said in interview that Travis is basically Jonny Knoxville as an Otaku.

Which makes the game all the more hilarious. And in terms of western influence, the story clearly hates violence. And whats so western about demonizing violence? America LOVES violence. It's nudity we have an inexplicable problem with. So the argument that Emcee's approaching it with a western mentality is a little odd. I agree with Proph: think this game was made with a more global message in mind. This is a really weird trend that SEVERAL cultures are guilty of.

I wasn't saying that Suda just does things for the "sake of randomness" but that he seems to use techniques that involve a certain level of randomness to avoid doing something overly derivative or easy to analyse.

And saying that I think America has a unique position on hating violence. I don't see how you can think I was saying that at all. I was talking about the different characters have rules and rituals around how they use violence and the acceptance of those varies by culture as does the sort of allegorical story that people expect to play out.

More Fun To Compute:I wasn't saying that Suda just does things for the "sake of randomness" but that he seems to use techniques that involve a certain level of randomness to avoid doing something overly derivative or easy to analyse.

And saying that I think America has a unique position on hating violence. I don't see how you can think I was saying that at all. I was talking about the different characters have rules and rituals around how they use violence and the acceptance of those varies by culture as does the sort of allegorical story that people expect to play out.

Yup.

I don't have much more to say than yup XD I think that Suda did a good job of incorporating relevant stereotypes present in various different cultures, and showing how similar so many of them are.

False Nobility:I think my fav theory thus far is that Speed Buster and her intro represents the real plot of the game. Not that I can explain that without spoiling everything.

Though that segment was funny as hell, so I'm okay with the lack of analysis for her. And Bad Girl's analysis more than makes up for it.

And in regards to the conversation above me: Suda rarely does anything for the sake of randomness. Though he does sometimes, for the most part he thinks his stuff through. And he clearly has various cultural influences: he said in interview that Travis is basically Jonny Knoxville as an Otaku.

Which makes the game all the more hilarious. And in terms of western influence, the story clearly hates violence. And whats so western about demonizing violence? America LOVES violence. It's nudity we have an inexplicable problem with. So the argument that Emcee's approaching it with a western mentality is a little odd. I agree with Proph: think this game was made with a more global message in mind. This is a really weird trend that SEVERAL cultures are guilty of.

More Fun To Compute:I wasn't saying that Suda just does things for the "sake of randomness" but that he seems to use techniques that involve a certain level of randomness to avoid doing something overly derivative or easy to analyse.

And saying that I think America has a unique position on hating violence. I don't see how you can think I was saying that at all. I was talking about the different characters have rules and rituals around how they use violence and the acceptance of those varies by culture as does the sort of allegorical story that people expect to play out.

Okay. Sorry, that wasn't really clear from you had typed. It sounded you were saying that Suda was japanese, thus his influence is only (or even mostly) japanese.

Reincarnatedwolfgod:is there any symbolism in okami(i personalty can't find much)? if there is enough you should do a video on if it. but then again any exiting symbolism i probably lost when people who are not from japan play it. so that might be impossible

well i am not sure what to criticize so Continue the good work.

There's actually a decent amount of symbolism, but if I make a video on it, I'll probably mostly be talking about the generally artistry and how 'different' it was in comparison to most other games nowadays. There's enough to talk about, even it's just talking about Japanese mythology.

Reincarnatedwolfgod:is there any symbolism in okami(i personalty can't find much)? if there is enough you should do a video on if it. but then again any exiting symbolism i probably lost when people who are not from japan play it. so that might be impossible

well i am not sure what to criticize so Continue the good work.

There's actually a decent amount of symbolism, but if I make a video on it, I'll probably mostly be talking about the generally artistry and how 'different' it was in comparison to most other games nowadays. There's enough to talk about, even it's just talking about Japanese mythology.

If anything, I'm sure Daystar Clarion would love you forever.

I'm sure he would. XD As would a lot of people.

It's one of my fav games, and I think it's the most underrated game ever made. It's a really beautiful story both inside and out.