Messages - Valz

Before we proceed, however, just what is black ‘n’ roll? The answer that first comes to my mind would be some of the more commercially viable offshoots of black metal, which add a ’70s-style glam rock influence (looking squarely at Satyricon here). However, upon closer examination, this is not what I actively consider to be black ‘n’ roll. When I think of the term, I don’t picture gaunt, leather-clad figures with stringy hair rasping about decadence and Satanism. I’d prefer to picture Motörhead on steroids: big hairy men playing big hairy music, with a dose of alcoholism thrown in for good measure. Black ‘n’ roll bands are clearly influenced by first-wave black metal (Venom, Bathory, Hellhammer, Show No Mercy-era Slayer… you get the idea), but are unafraid to add other influences from similarly unpretentious genres to make their music tougher and meaner. Old-school punk, speed metal, ’90s crust, and thrash metal all get thrown into the mix to obtain the roughest sound possible. Despite their differing degrees of influences, these guys, like the best biker gang, have enough of a unity of sound and attitude to be considered a trend: the music by and large sounds like a first-wave black metal band recorded in a second-rate studio around 1984 (only low production values are real).

...which is why growled vocals - largely rhythmic, though with variations in pitch and broad tone to give it a lyrical character - work there.

Thanks for the input trystero! Would you mind expanding on this a little bit if it is not much trouble? I ask because I really have no musical background and that sentence sounds a little obscure to me but I would like to get to know better this aspect of death metal. Thanks in advance!

As an aside, what about doom metal bands that use very distorted and low tuned guitars yet use clean vocals with their music? What would be the main difference here that makes growls more fitting for death metal? The fast/chaotic nature of the music? Which I think is debatable as there is plenty of slow death metal as well yet growls are used.

But didn't death metal emerge from thrash as the result of an ongoing push for making more and more extreme music? I think that as far as shouting goes we could probably place growling as the next logical step from the shouting done by bands like Slayer. This shouting vs. growling is also as far as I know a key differentiator between thrash (no matter how extreme it gets) and death metal.

That actually makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider that in death metal the vocals are seen as another instrument (which is why actually understanding the singer is not given as much importance as in order genres); it is reasonable that the down tuning and increase of distortion of the guitars should be matched by the rest of the instruments, vocals included.

The most common explanation I've seen is that it matches the gory/morbid lyrics; but that really can't be given how death metal bands cover a wide range of topics in their lyrics that have nothing to do with gore or even anything morbid.

Another explanation I've heard is that it is meant to express frustration and anger towards the particular subject the lyrics are about. But I am not too sure about this either first due to the diversity of the lyrics and also I think screaming/shouting/shrieking would likely be better choices for that.

Is it simply that it fits the intense music? This is of course highly subjective, given the diversity of the genre both in terms of music and lyrics.

In any case, just putting some thoughts forward to get the discussion going. What's your view?

No, its just rock bands being even more obvious about wanting to be death metal, by putting in even less effort.

Stuff is pretty terrible but then again, at least there aren't breakdowns. It's just mostly inconsequential niche BS.

Yeah, it is as if pop/rock artists just want to 'steal' as much as they can from metal, making such elements 'mainstream' and posing as 'innovators' without ever wanting to actually be metal. Rather annoying, even tho this death'n'roll thing definitely isn't as horrendous as deathcore.

That and the musicians involved are influenced by a lot of older rock bands and just want to copy their heroes. Inferiority complex? I dunno, though most of the best metal albums come from teens/early 20s folks and as they got older and noticed these works were not getting attention (or even being understood by a lot of fans), perhaps insecurity kicked in?

Quality is not subjective and judging a genre by bands outside of it is...not very smart.

What each individual considers quality music is most definitely a highly subjective thing. As to what bands are inside or outside of black metal that is highly debatable considering how loosely defined the genre is. But consider how the early pioneers of the genre such as Darkthrone, Burzum Ulver, Emperor, etc have all moved away from it and how others who have remained such as Mayhem are but shadows of their former selves.

There really hasn't been much to look for over the last ten or so years when it comes to black metal as far as the material put out by new bands. Basically nearly every popular black metal band these days is either jumping into the atmospheric / post-black metal craze, doing power metal with black metal vocals (or so called symphonic black metal) or doing the nonsensical suicidal black metal shenanigan.

Well, that is rather subjective but what has been with black metal from the start is the fact that the genre has always had an identity crisis. This is probably why it is such a broad and loosely defined genre, able to contain even the least metal bands imaginable (think the current crop of hipster atmospheric black metal and post-black metal bands that only pay lip service to the genre yet are considered part of it). Wether it is because of the decline in quality, the dissolving of the genre due to the excessive experimentation done by the post-second wave artist or the invasion of hipsters, black metal is largely a failed subgenre.

Even some of the members from Mayhem were repulsed by Euronymous' actions.

Yeah but Euronymous made the music!

Yes...music which he asserted must be Satanic (as in theistic satanism, not the LaVeyan stuff) and drive his totalitarian ideology and help spread misery to others. it was not until his death that black metal sort of began to drop the ideological baggage, even tho there still are some who follow along the same trail.

Also, so as to not start a separate thread for this: Where is the line draw between regular death, brutal death and technical death metal? What are the defining characteristics/differences between them? Sometimes the lines seem to be rather blury, specially between brutal and tech death metal.