WASHINGTON — Christians are raising concern after Attorney General Eric Holder issued an internal memo last week within the United States Department of Justice announcing that it is to now interpret federal law as prohibiting discrimination against transgenders for employment opportunities.

The Department announced the development on Thursday, meaning that it is heretofore open to bringing legal claims on behalf of those who state that they have been turned down for employment or let go from their jobs because of their “gender identity.”

“Attorney General Holder announced today that the Department of Justice will take the position in litigation that the protection of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 extends to claims of discrimination based on an individual’s gender identity, including transgender status,” it wrote.

The Department had previously come to the conclusion that the law’s prohibition on sex discrimination does not apply to those who seek to identify as the opposite sex. Thursday’s announcement reverses that decision.

“The federal government’s approach to this issue has evolved over time,” the memo written by Holder stated. “In 2006, the Department stated in litigation that Title VII’ s prohibition of discrimination based on sex did not cover discrimination based on transgender status or gender identity per se.”

“In 2012, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that discrimination on the basis of gender identity is discrimination on the
basis of sex,” he continued. “More recently, the president announced that discrimination based on gender identity is prohibited for purposes
of federal employment and government contracting.”

Holder said that in studying case law surrounding the matter and “developing jurisprudence” on the subject he determined that the Civil Rights Act extends to “transgendered” persons “because an employee’s gender identification is as a member of a particular sex, or because the employee is transitioning, or has transitioned, to another sex.”

“This important shift will ensure that the protections of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 are extended to those who suffer discrimination based on gender identity, including transgender status,” he commented in a press release issued by the office of public affairs. “This will help to foster fair and consistent treatment for all claimants. And it reaffirms the Justice Department’s commitment to protecting the civil rights of all Americans.”

But some are concerned over the announcement, stating that it could pose a problem with Christian organizations and others who wish to run their businesses and ministries in accordance with their beliefs.

“The limited exemptions in Title VII mean that applying this theory nationwide would require employers with legitimate concerns—such as religious organizations and child care centers—to hire men who pretend to be women and women who pretend to be men,” stated Peter Sprigg, Senior Fellow for Policy Studies at the Family Research Council. “Parents are deeply concerned that giving a special status to transgender persons will lead to troubling situations for their children, and religious leaders are left unsure how this arbitrary new rule will affect hiring within their ministries.”

“The government simply has no business overriding parental concerns and telling religious organizations that they must place transgender individuals in role-model positions,” he continued. “Such threats to parental rights and religious liberty should be immediately repudiated by the next presidential administration.”

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Beau Best

Fair enough,

Gary

Another case of the government trampling the rights of citizens. The government has no right to force people to do business. They have no more right to force businesses to hire transsexuals than they have the right to force transsexuals to work for a certain business.

thoughtsfromflorida

“The government has no right to force people to do business.”

Nor do they.

“They have no more right to force businesses to hire transsexuals”

Nor do they.

Neiman

There are no transgendered people – they do not exist. There are people uncomfortable with their assigned gender, as dictated by biology, but they are what their genitals dictate and need psychiatric help to restore their mental health. There are no homosexual people, they are all born heterosexuals and again they are simply having mental/emotional issues with their gender and need psychiatric/spiritual help.

If they seek employment these people should not be able to demand special considerations, this is not a civil rights issue, it is a gender confusion issue and one driven by deviant sexual lusts.

Lastly, Obama and Holder now in positions of great power are determined to rewrite the Constitution and recreate society society in their own anti-Christ image, casting all morality and all human decency overboard, thinking themselves superior to all other men and virtual dictators of America.

PROUD_Free_Thinker

You clearly are incredibly uneducated but very opinionated on the subject of mitosis. PLEASE STFU.

Neiman

You must be a liberal, telling those that oppose you to shut up, as all you liberals hate free speech. It is also typical of you atheist liberals that you cannot tolerate any dissent, that is why scientists have surrendered their ethics and scientific truth to adhere to your political correctness, or fear losing their careers.

You are angry because I told the truth, you hate the truth in any form.

The genitalia dictates gender and even if it appears ambiguous, one dominates and dictates gender.

PROUD_Free_Thinker

You sure enjoy judging people don’t you Neiman. Did God tell you to do that? Or Fox news? I am angry because of ignorant sycophants like you trying to spew their Christian Terrorist ideals to everyone else that doesn’t think like they are told to think. You are a pathetic, misaligned, judgmental minion. You don’t know anything about biology, history or humanity except what you are told by someone else that made it up as they went along.

Pathetic and sad. Just try to think for yourself..Just once. Which I doubt you are even capable of…

Neiman

Thank you for your kind thoughts, now take your medicine and go back to your padded cell. Good boy!

PROUD_Free_Thinker

Really? That insipid, moronic comment is your answer to my post? Medication and padded cell?? So sorry, but that didn’t insult me. In fact, that obtuse reply in lieu of a true response or any facts to back up your asinine original comment only solidified my logic that you are a complete puppet. With no facts or argument. Good boy!

JohnH

PFT, I agree with your point of view, but you shouldn’t get your information from memes. It’s simply not true that the King James version used previous translations. It was a new translation from the Hebrew and Greek.

The translation is described in David Daniel’s The Bible in English: its history and influence.

PROUD_Free_Thinker

Great point John. Thank you for the clarification. The point I was trying to make was the bible that everyone thumps so loud isn’t the word of god..It was the word of King James. And that man created god. Not the other way around.

Gary

You are no where near as smart as you think you are.

PROUD_Free_Thinker

Your “Truth” dates back 2000 years and has been re-written hundreds of times while contradicting itself over and over. I am tired of christian terrorists taking over my country. If you want to believe in talking snakes, that the world is flat and revolves around the sun, go ahead you gullible fool. Just don’t try and ram it down my throat or tell me how to live.

And..your obsession with genitalia is creepy. I think you are the delusional one…

Thank you for calling me a liberal.(did your preacher tell you to call me that? Or FOX news?) I wear the badge proudly. Along with Atheist. Here is the definition of Liberal by the way:

Liberal: Believing that government should be active in supporting social and political change : relating to or supporting political liberalism.

Quit trying to vilify it. It only make you look even more crazy and gullible.

Fundisi

You sound like a man fearful of his own shadow, knowing you are wrong and fearing everlasting torments in hell.

Mostly, all the above were the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind.

PROUD_Free_Thinker

“All the above were the nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind??” Huh? That is your response? Pathetic. How so Fundisi? Please enlighten me if you can. But, somehow I doubt your answer will have the same irrelevancy as all your other ones.. So far, you have presented no argument short of name calling and useless rhetoric. Better go ask your preacher for help.

As PROUD_Free_Thinker clearly demonstrates above, those who cry for tolerance the loudest today silence any opposing viewpoint – the very definition of intolerance and bigotry! Hypocrisy, anyone?

PROUD_Free_Thinker

An uneducated stab at a certain group of people with no facts to back it up is not a viewpoint. It is a judgement. Yes, I will silence hateful judgement when I see it. I will silence with the same veracity that religion uses to vilify those who live differently and question their dogmatic mythology.

Barb

Such “dogmatic mythology,” as you put it, is the very foundation of our nation which gives you the freedom to express your own hypocritical judgments against it. Freedom OF religion is guaranteed by our Constitution, not freedom FROM religion as you and those like you seem to think today. You are doing nothing but cutting your nose off to spite your face! Since you claim to be very highly educated, please refer to this historical fact:

“In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams, Sixth President of the U.S., Diplomat, Secretary of State, U.S. Senator, U.S. Representative, “Old Man Eloquent”, “Hell-Hound of Abolition

PROUD_Free_Thinker

So you are trying to tell me that this country was founded on Christianity? And then you pull out that barren, inane quote form the sixth President. Seriously? No. You are dead wrong and full of BS. Freedom of religion means you can’t force your fairy tales on me and I can choose not to believe ANY lies:

“Freedom of religion or Freedom of belief is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance; the concept is generally recognized also to include the freedom to change religion or not to follow any religion. The freedom to leave or discontinue membership in a religion or religious group —in religious terms called “apostasy” — is also a fundamental part of religious freedom, covered by Article 18 of United Nations’ 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Freedom of religion was first applied as a principle of government in the founding of the colony of Maryland, founded by the Catholic Lord Baltimore, in 1634.[33] Fifteen years later (1649) the Maryland Toleration Act, drafted by Lord Baltimore, provided: “No person or persons…shall from henceforth be any waies troubled, molested or discountenanced for or in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof.”

(Source: Wikipedia)

So..
You like quotes?

OK..Here are just a few:

“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter.” Thomas Jefferson

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. – Susan B. Anthony

The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. – Socrates

“Hence today I believe I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator” –Adolph Hitler

Barb

“Uneducated stab?” It is funny (sarc) that those who consider themselves highly educated today are completely ignorant of American history and what our Founders actually believed. Here is a tiny sample:

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity. -John Adams

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God. – John Adams

[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty. – John Adams

The Sermon on the Mount commends me to lay up for myself treasures, not on earth, but in Heaven. My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ. – John Quincy Adams

The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. – John Quincy Adams

The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that ‘except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.’ – Benjamin Franklin

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see. –Benjamin Franklin

The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the Divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth… – John Quincy Adams

So great is my veneration for the Bible, that the earlier my children begin to read it the more confident will be my hopes that they will prove useful citizens to their country and respectable members of society. – John Quincy Adams

Being a Christian… is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast. The Bible… is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed. –Patrick Henry

That book, sir, is the Rock on which our Republic rests. -Andrew Jackson

I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. –Thomas Jefferson

God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever. -Thomas Jefferson

And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins… and to recognize the sublime truth announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord. ~ Abraham Lincoln

Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ. -James Madison

We cannot read the history of our rise and development as a nation, without reckoning with the place the Bible has occupied in shaping the advances of the Republic. Where we have been the truest and most consistent in obeying its precepts, we have attained the greatest measure of contentment and prosperity.” – Franklin Roosevelt

PROUD_Free_Thinker

WRONG Barb. You have been duped. The separation of church and state is one of the cornerstones of America’s foundation. Conservative Christian fundamentalists (That would be you) have sought to crush this cornerstone in the hopes of establishing Christianity as the state religion, an action that would threaten the rest of the foundation that makes up the Constitution. These conservatives contend that the Founding Fathers dreamed of making America a Christian state at the expense of those who practice other religions or none at all.So here are 35 quotes from the Founding Fathers. Perhaps your first thoughts are the first four Presidents and maybe Benjamin Franklin, but there were many other Founding Fathers. Many were signers of the US Constitution and The Declaration of Independence. They were lawyers, judges, soldiers, merchants, farmers, and some were even clergy. And the great majority of them signed the Constitution knowing that matters of government and matters of religion would be separate.

1. “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”

~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

2. “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”

~Founding Father George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792

3. “We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”

~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

4. “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”

~John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” 1787-1788

5. “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

6. “Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”

~Founding Father John Adams, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” (1787-88)

7. “We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.”

~Founding FatherJohn Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785

8. “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

9. “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

10. “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

12. “History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”

~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

13. “Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual.

State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”

~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists, 1808

16. “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

~Founding Father James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

17. “Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.”

~Founding Father James Madison, letter, 1822

18. “Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.”

19. “It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising the sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin. Let us, then, look to the great cause, and endeavor to preserve it in full force. Let us by all wise and constitutional measures promote intelligence among the people as the best means of preserving our liberties.”

~Founding Father James Monroe, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1817

20. “When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”

21. “Manufacturers, who listening to the powerful invitations of a better price for their fabrics, or their labor, of greater cheapness of provisions and raw materials, of an exemption from the chief part of the taxes burdens and restraints, which they endure in the old world, of greater personal independence and consequence, under the operation of a more equal government, and of what is far more precious than mere religious toleration–a perfect equality of religious privileges; would probably flock from Europe to the United States to pursue their own trades or professions, if they were once made sensible of the advantages they would enjoy, and were inspired with an assurance of encouragement and employment, will, with difficulty, be induced to transplant themselves, with a view to becoming cultivators of the land.”

~Founding Father Alexander Hamilton: Report on the Subject of Manufacturers December 5,

1791

22. “In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.”

~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

23. “That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forebearance, love, and charity towards each other.”

~Founding Father George Mason, Virginia Bill of Rights, 1776

24. “It is contrary to the principles of reason and justice that any should be compelled to contribute to the maintenance of a church with which their consciences will not permit them to join, and from which they can derive no benefit; for remedy whereof, and that equal liberty as well religious as civil, may be universally extended to all the good people of this commonwealth.”

~Founding Father George Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, 1776

25. “A man of abilities and character, of any sect whatever, may be admitted to any office or public trust under the United States. I am a friend to a variety of sects, because they keep one another in order. How many different sects are we composed of throughout the United States? How many different sects will be in congress? We cannot enumerate the sects that may be in congress. And there are so many now in the United States that they will prevent the establishment of any one sect in prejudice to the rest, and will forever oppose all attempts to infringe religious liberty. If such an attempt be made, will not the alarm be sounded throughout America? If congress be as wicked as we are foretold they will, they would not run the risk of exciting the resentment of all, or most of the religious sects in America.”

~Founding Father Edmund Randolph, address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June

10, 1788

26. “I never liked the Hierarchy of the Church — an equality in the teacher of Religion, and a dependence on the people, are republican sentiments — but if the Clergy combine, they will have their influence on Government”

27. A general toleration of Religion appears to me the best means of peopling our country… The free exercise of religion hath stocked the Northern part of the continent with inhabitants; and altho’ Europe hath in great measure adopted a more moderate policy, yet the profession of Protestantism is extremely inconvenient in many places there. A Calvinist, a Lutheran, or Quaker, who hath felt these inconveniences in Europe, sails not to Virginia, where they are felt perhaps in a (greater degree).”

~Patrick Henry, observing that immigrants flock to places where there is no established religion, Religious Tolerance, 1766

28. “No religious doctrine shall be established by law.”

~Founding Father Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

29. “Knowledge and liberty are so prevalent in this country, that I do not believe that the United States would ever be disposed to establish one religious sect, and lay all others under legal disabilities. But as we know not what may take place hereafter, and any such test would be exceedingly injurious to the rights of free citizens, I cannot think it altogether superfluous to have added a clause, which secures us from the possibility of such oppression.”

30. “Some very worthy persons, who have not had great advantages for information, have objected against that clause in the constitution which provides, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. They have been afraid that this clause is unfavorable to religion. But my countrymen, the sole purpose and effect of it is to exclude persecution, and to secure to you the important right of religious

liberty. We are almost the only people in the world, who have a full enjoyment of this important right of human nature. In our country every man has a right to worship God in that way which is most agreeable to his conscience. If he be a good and peaceable person he is liable to no penalties or incapacities on account of his religious sentiments; or in other words, he is not subject to persecution. But in other parts of the world, it has been, and still is, far different. Systems of religious error have been adopted, in times of ignorance. It has been the interest of tyrannical kings, popes, and prelates, to maintain these errors. When the clouds of ignorance began to vanish, and the people grew more enlightened, there was no other way to keep them in error, but to prohibit their altering their religious opinions by severe persecuting laws. In this way persecution became general throughout Europe.”

31. “Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791

32. “God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”

~Founding Father Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

33. “Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.”

~Founding Father Roger Sherman, Congress, August 19, 1789

34. “The American states have gone far in assisting the progress of truth; but they have stopped short of perfection. They ought to have given every honest citizen an equal right to enjoy his religion and an equal title to all civil emoluments, without obliging him to tell his religion. Every interference of the civil power in regulating opinion, is an impious attempt to take the business of the Deity out of his own hands; and every preference given to any religious denomination, is so far slavery and bigotry.”

~Founding Father Noah Webster, calling for no religious tests to serve in public office, Sketches of American Policy, 1785

35. “The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.”

~Founding Father Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787

These are hardly the words of men who allegedly believed that America should be a Christian nation governed by the Bible as conservatives constantly claim. On the contrary, the great majority of the Founders believed strongly in separation of church and state. So keep in mind that this country has survived for over two centuries under the principle of separation and it is only now when conservatives are attempting to destroy that very cornerstone that we find America becoming ever more divided and more politically charged than ever before. If this right-wing faction has their way, America as we know it will cease to exist and the freedoms we have enjoyed because of the Constitution will erode.

The Founding Fathers had a vision of this nation and trusted that the people would protect that vision and improve upon it. Now is not the time to fail them. Because the day the people fail, so does America.

Barb

Sorry, but YOU are very wrong. The following words are even inscribed on the Jefferson Memorial for all perpetuity:

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?

The “wall of separation” so often quoted as if it is in our Constitution, was actually written in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Baptists at Danbury, Connecticut who were worried about the state becoming too controlling of the church, NOT the other way around! David Barton of Wallbuilders has explained it very well here. http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=123

Complete garbage. That sight is made up from the same lies as your ancient book. Barb, the VERY FIRST AMENDMENT of the constitution is based on the Separation of church and state. The paramount reason why the forefathers came to this country was for religious freedom. They listed it as their top goal in forming America. Matter of fact most of the fore fathers weren’t even Christian, but deist, atheist and agnostic. I could site thousands of quotes which piss on this lie from Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, etc. but I shouldn’t need to, considering the reading of the constitution is a 4th grade curriculum requirement.

Even still, what you are trying to say that the government should force us to all believe the same religion. Just like Islam? Very nice. What is wrong with you? Don’t answer that. You’re brainwashed. That’s what.

Mr. Benjamin Franklin “Lighthouses are more helpful then churches” And it is true.

And here’s a few more from the Father of our country, George Washington:

It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible. ~ George Washington

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.. . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles. ~ George Washington

Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the Lamb and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of Thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in Thy fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy son, Jesus Christ. – George Washington

You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. -George Washington

Barb

I’m incredibly sick of this insanity being crammed down our throats in the name of civil rights. Moral relativism is the root of all of this. Unless and until we as a nation get back to our Christian roots, we will self-destruct by these policies. And yes, we DO indeed have Christianity as our foundation despite the liberal progressives rants to the contrary:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God. – John Adams.

In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior. The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. – John Quincy Adams

Barb

PROUD_Free_Thinker obviously considers himself very educated based upon his insult to your intelligence, Neiman. Here’s a website with historically accurate information regarding the undeniable (even though they vehemently deny it while accusing people of being uneducated) influence of Christianity in our nation’s founding: http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755

Neiman

I agree, but if I read and understand God’s Word correctly, we will not return to our founding principles, we will continue on the track to moral dissipation and our destruction. The prophetic die has been cast and evil will prevail and when the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, absolute evil will rule this earth.

Barb

This saddens me greatly for my kids and grandchildren. At this time, I only have one five year old grandson. But he (as well as ALL our posterity) deserves an America that is truly free, as our Founders envisioned and fought for, not enslaved by all these twisted ideas passing as rights.

Neiman

You must pray without ceasing for your children and grandchildren salvation, as God tells us what has already happened to this world and he does not encourage us to look for any national repentance, now is the hour of Satan and the world is under a great delusion of atheism and hatred for the Christian faith.

That is not what you or any Christian wants to hear, but we know that God cannot lie and He tells us there will be no turning back.

Barb

We are truly living in times of great deception. But like Israel of old, we still must pray for our nation and its leaders. Many have been praying this Scripture for years now: II Chronicles 7:14. “If my people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray, and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land.”

I will continue to pray for His healing for our land as long as I have breath in my lungs.

God bless you and may God bless America! In Jesus’ name!

Neiman

I have no problem with praying for our nation, I do so daily, but mainly because Christians are still here and I want them to have a strong America until they are taken out of the way. Nonetheless, I also acknowledge that God does not tell us of any nation at this hour in our history repents and by the way, America is not “my people,” that is the nation of Israel.

Barb

First of all, I am well aware that the Scripture in II Chronicles 7:14 refers to the nation of Israel; however, today God’s people are referred to as Christians which first began in Antioch according to Acts 11:26. And since America still possesses a majority who profess Christianity, we certainly can still be considered God’s people, despite the current assault against Christianity being waged by atheists and the politically-correct B.S. stated by President Obama in 2009.

Secondly, we are admonished by Scripture in I Timothy 2:1-6 to pray for all people and all those in authority: I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people.

Therefore, pray we must. And we must also believe that God will indeed answer our prayers; otherwise He wouldn’t tell us to pray and seek His face: Psalm 27:8; Psalm 105:4.

God Bless America, in Jesus’ holy name!

Barb

You’re absolutely right, Fundisi. I truly AM praying without ceasing for my children and grandchildren because this culture in which we live is anything but GODLY; therefore, that’s our only hope.

Fundisi

Praise God! Be sure and give them to God, trust Him, not your prayers (me too), to give you all that you ask of Him.

James Grimes

As an Atheist, Mr. Holder has no respect for Christian values. I hope that some day he will see the wickedness of his ways.

Tim Raynor

Well, since the Bible is not the law of the land, then this makes perfect sense. These people are not seeking special privileges, they’re seeking the same equal rights all citizens are granted under the law. I really don’t see this as a “change” per-say, but a better clarification to the Civil Rights Act.

railhead

What about my right as a business owner to hire whomever I want to work at MY business? All that’s really going to happen with this is that more small business owners who have a moral conscience will be further pressed out of business, and giant corporations like Walmart that have no moral conscience, and that enable sweat shops in China and other countries to basically use slave labor to make goods for US consumers will increase their market share even more than they already have.
In other words, completely counter-indicating doing this in the name of civil rights, in the grand scheme of things.

Gary

To the government, you have the right to be a source of income to the government, and to advance their civil agenda, which includes the promotion and forced acceptance of perversion. The greatest threat to our freedom is the US Government.

thoughtsfromflorida

In what way are you required to promote perversion and forced to accept perversion?

Gary

When a business is not allowed to refuse to hire a homosexual, or transgender, the government is trying to force the business to accept perversion.

thoughtsfromflorida

A business cannot accept or not accept something. It is an entity. Only people can accept or not accept things. Suggesting that hiring someone who is homosexual indicates acceptance of homosexuality would be like suggesting that hiring a woman who had a child out of wedlock, would be an indication of acceptance of premarital sexual relations, or hiring someone who got divorced, would indicate an acceptance that divorce is OK.

Gary

Businesses are owned by, and run by people. If you don’t understand that the government is trying to make society accept perversion, then you are not paying attention. The US Government is evil.

thoughtsfromflorida

Again, you have provided nothing to back up your claim that people can be “forced” to accept something. People are free to accept or not accept whatever they care to.

Gary

If the government forces you to do something, are you also free to reject it?

thoughtsfromflorida

The government can’t force you to do anything. If you don’t like the rules, you are free to leave.

Gary

So my choices are 1. Do what the government says even if it is immoral and robs me of my freedom, or, 2. Move to another country? Some choice. I reject both of those options.

thoughtsfromflorida

What freedom that is guaranteed under our constitution are you robbed of?

There are actually two more choices – 1. you can work to get laws changed; 2. You can initiate a court action.

You are free to accept or reject whatever you care to. Your acceptance or rejection of the options you have does not, however, change the reality that the government can’t “force” you to do something.

Gary

You are not a very clear thinker. If the government passes a law that says you must do something, or you are not allowed to do something, under threat of fine or imprisonment, then that is using the threat of force to try to make you comply with what the government wants. In you own mind you still might be in rebellion, but what good is that if you are in jail?

thoughtsfromflorida

There is no question that there are consequences for breaking the law. It is, however, still your choice.

“In you own mind you still might be in rebellion, but what good is that if you are in jail?”

That would depend on how strongly you believe in your convictions. Again, if you don’t want to face the consequences of your actions, you are free to move to a place where the laws are different, free to challenge the laws in court, and free to work to have the laws changed. You are not “forced”. Perhaps you would find countries in the Middle East to be more to your liking.

If, however, you want to enjoy the freedom, liberty, and equality that is at the basis for our nation, then you accept the fact that those freedoms, liberty, and equality are afforded to EVERY citizen, even those with whom you disagree. That’s not always easy, but it is an inherent part of our system.

Gary

Freedom? Liberty? If I cannot choose who I do business with, then where is my freedom and liberty?

thoughtsfromflorida

All rights have restrictions. That is nothing new. if you have issue with that, I suggest you work to have the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as all subsequent civil rights and anti-discrimination laws overturned, including those that provide protections regarding discrimination in hiring, public accommodation, and housing based upon religious belief.

I was agreeing that his position was at least one that reasonable people could hold until he went the route of saying public accommodations laws = slavery.

Gary

Forcing people to do business against their will is a form of slavery. Slavery is not limited to black people on plantations in the 18th century.

thoughtsfromflorida

“Forcing people to do business against their will is a form of slavery.”

No one is “forced”. People are free to either operate a business or not operate a business. No one is “forced” to own a business and thus no one is “forced” to do business against their will.

Your comparison to slavery is inane and nothing more than a straw man argument.

Gary

I’m sure you would say those field hands in 1860 were not forced to be field hands either. They could have chosen to run away, or be whipped, or be locked up.

thoughtsfromflorida

Are you referring to the ones who were considered the legal property of their owners and who were not compensated for their work and who were not allowed to leave as they were legally the property of their owner? Those field hands?

As opposed to a person who faces no penalty for choosing not to open a business, and thus is not forced to serve anyone or hire anyone they do not care to?

Is that the comparison you are attempting, feebly and without success, to make?

Gary

Those who were the “legal” property of their owners, (note the word legal), were compensated. They were given food, clothing and shelter, such as it was. They were forced, by law, to do business with someone against their will. That is the essence of what it means to be a slave.

thoughtsfromflorida

“They were forced, by law, to do business with someone against their will.”

They weren’t “doing business”, they were performing labor.

“They were forced, by law, to do business with someone against their will. That is the essence of what it means to be a slave.”

If you believe the essence of being a slave is being forced, by law, to do business with someone against one’s will, then you have an incredibly inaccurate understanding of what it means to be a slave.

JohnH

I didn’t like the Iraq war. I and my children still live here, which includes paying for that immoral war. And, if their children decide to live here, they’ll be paying for it, too. Trillions take generations to pay off.

That’s the nature of our system. Some arguments you win. Some you lose. I lost the “we shouldn’t go to war in Iraq” argument. You’ve lost the “gays aren’t people” argument. Accept it. Or move. Your choice.

thoughtsfromflorida

He can’t seem to grasp the concept that people are free to operate or not operate a business. No one is “forced” to do so. Throwing in slavery is a way some people attempt to justify their position. Ridiculous, of course, but when you have nothing else, you have to do something, I suppose.

Gary

All anti-discrimination laws that apply to private citizens or to businesses are unconstitutional and unfair. They violate the freedom of religion, and freedom of association. Given the corrupt nature of the US Government, including the courts, I don’t expect those laws to be changed without overwhelming pressure being applied on the government.

thoughtsfromflorida

“All anti-discrimination laws that apply to private citizens or to businesses are unconstitutional and unfair”

The courts disagree with you. But you are certainly free to file a lawsuit to that affect and give it your best shot. What will your arguments be?

“I don’t expect those laws to be changed without overwhelming pressure being applied on the government.”

In what way are the courts “corrupt”? if you have such a strong legal case, then getting overwhelming support should not be difficult. Let me know how that goes.

Gary

I know the courts disagree with me. What good then would it do to file a lawsuit that will be decided by the same courts that promote forcing people to do business against their will?
In what way are the courts corrupt? That you would even ask such a silly question proves the you understand nothing.

thoughtsfromflorida

“by the same courts that promote forcing people to do business against their will? ”

But you aren’t forced to do business against your will. If you don’t like the laws governing operation a business, don’t open a business. You are not “forced” to do so. Your persecution complex is unwarranted.

“That you would even ask such a silly question proves the you understand nothing.”

If you can’t explain it, then you can’t explain it. it becomes nothing more than another of your unfounded statements.

Gary

If I don’t like the government trying to force me to do business against my will, then just don’t go into business? I need food, clothing and shelter, so, I have to be in business. But it is shameful that the government forces me to find a way around unjust laws.

thoughtsfromflorida

“I need food, clothing and shelter, so, I have to be in business.”

Oh, please. Spare me the hyperbole. You do not have to own a business in order to have an income. Most citizens don’t own their own business.

Gary

I know you would prefer that my business should be selling my labor by the hour. And at a discount. But I refuse to play by your rules. Or by the rules the government makes.

thoughtsfromflorida

“I know you would prefer that my business should be selling my labor by the hour. And at a discount.”

No one has a business of selling themselves by the hour. They may be paid by the hour, but it is not simply for their presence. You are free to have any business you care to and are qualified for. I have no preference.

“But I refuse to play by your rules.”

The rules regarding business are not mine.

“Or by the rules the government makes.”

As I said in the beginning – your choice.

thoughtsfromflorida

“What about my right as a business owner to hire whomever I want to work at MY business?”

You have that right. What you don’t a right to do is to turn someone away based SOLELY on that person being a member of a covered category. Employment discrimination is very hard to prove in court.

“All that’s really going to happen with this is that more small business owners who have a moral conscience will be further pressed out of business,”

What moral teaching says it is wrong to hire someone who is transgender?

Gary

“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. ” Ephesians 5:11

thoughtsfromflorida

How would that relate to transgender individuals? Where in the bible does it state that transgender people are “the unfruitful works of darkness”?

Gary

My reply has been deleted twice. Apparently, the censor has a strong distaste for certain words.
Some behaviors are morally wrong and against nature. Wanting to be a gender other than the one you were born fits that category.

thoughtsfromflorida

What would be considered “morally wrong” would depend on the individual and the basis for their morals. You are certainly free to believe that it is morally wrong for a person to identify with a gender other than their biological gender. With that said, what is the basis for your believing that is morally wrong?

“against nature”

Since these individuals exist, and each of us is a product of nature, how can it be “against nature”?

Beanlet

I don’t understand why a transvestite person would be a “covered category”. If someone wanted to work for me, wouldn’t they dress in a way that represents my business, my self, and the type of customers we would attract? Why would I be required to hire someone who is more interested in how they represent themself than how they represent my business?

thoughtsfromflorida

“Why would I be required to hire someone who is more interested in how they represent themself than how they represent my business?”

You wouldn’t be. You are perfectly free to create required dress codes for you employees as well as create requirements for their personal appearance. You are simply not allowed to turn away a person who meets those codes based upon nothing more than that person being a transsexual.

Employment laws are not about who you MUST hire. Rather, they are about the reasons for which you may turn away an applicant.

Tamara Sommers

A Fool in His Folly. Breeding Craziness. HOW MUCH MORE AMERICA?
There is a proverb for this….
“It’s better to meet a mother bear robbed of her cubs, than some FOOL busy with another stupid project.” Proverbs 17:12

[And, if you don’t know, a mother bear who’s has had her cubs robbed, makes for a very mean and crazed bear, out for revenge–you do not want to see her eye-to-eye, to meet her on a path or get in her way] …. just say’en

PROUD_Free_Thinker

What? Senseless…

TheBBP

As long as “Women and minorities are encouraged to apply.”, then “Anyone of the Christian Faith is encouraged to apply” should be good to go. Right?

The headline is inaccurate. Holder’s memo does not bar “turning down transgenders for employment.”

It bars discrimination.

There’s a difference, and it’s not at all a small one.

You can still refuse to hire someone who is transgender. You just can’t deny them employment BECAUSE they’re transgender.

If I were transgender and only had a GED and applied for a job as a professor or doctor or lawyer, no one would have to hire me. If I were applying for the same job as the boss’s kid, I wouldn’t have to be hired.

In fact, unless a business is so stupid as to say, “We don’t hire yer kind here,” then they’re probably okay not hiring a transgender.

The headline – which is more than simply misleading – should be changed.

Gary

Yes, there are many ways to avoid hiring people you don’t want to hire. But the government should not put people in the position to have to give reasons other than the real one in order to avoid prosecution.

That is a ridiculous argument and seems to indicate you don’t understand what slavery is/was.

Please go read a book instead of making a fool of yourself online further.

Gary

Fairness is not a one-way street. If someone is forced to sell his/her labor against their will, they are a slave, regardless of what they receive in exchange. How is that different from a person who is forced to buy something against their will? It is people who think like you that have gotten this country in the mess it is in.

Again, you undermined your argument completely when you demonstrated you didn’t know what slavery is/was.
Please don’t direct your nonsense at me further.
Have a great Christmas anyway.

Gary

It seems your intellectual limitations are too great to be overcome.

PROUD_Free_Thinker

Seriously Gary, quit while you’re ahead. You are getting slaughtered with very brilliance on 2 fronts. Your argument is futile.

heh, heh..

Gary

The two people I have been arguing with have yet to say anything remotely intelligent. I would add you as a third.

thoughtsfromflorida

“If you are forced to do business with those not of your choosing”

You aren’t forced. Operating a business is a choice. If you don’t like the rules regarding operating a business, then don’t operate one until you have managed to get the rules changed.

Gary

You would prefer that I go hungry and homeless if I won’t give up my freedoms? Your position seems to be the same as the government.

thoughtsfromflorida

Really, your histrionics are extreme. If you don’t own a business, you will not go hungry and homeless as a result. The majority of people do not own a business.

Your position seems to be one of a drama queen.

Gary

The business of most people is selling their time and labor to someone for a price. And that is fine, as long as both the seller and the buyer agree. But business transactions should be voluntary. When one party is forced into the transaction against their will, then it becomes a form of slavery. And you are advocating that the government force people into business transactions against their will, under penalty of law.

thoughtsfromflorida

“The business of most people is selling their time and labor to someone for a price. ”

That is not a business. That is employment. Unless you are a consultant who is business of billing out for your time, being employed is not considered a business.

“When one party is forced into the transaction against their will, then it becomes a form of slavery.”

But no one is being forced.

“And you are advocating that the government force people into business transactions against their will”

No, I am not. Please point to any statement I made in any of my posts that advocates for the government forcing people into business transactions against their will.

Gary

By supporting the laws that prohibit people from voluntary business transactions, you are supporting slavery. But you will never admit to that, even if you do understand that is what you are doing.
Fortunately, discrimination based on the rules the government has made is hard to prove. I discriminate often against people the government forbids me to discriminate against, and so far, I have not been prosecuted for it.

thoughtsfromflorida

“But you will never admit to that”

Correct. Because it is not true.

“I discriminate often against people the government forbids me to discriminate against, and so far, I have not been prosecuted for it.”

Well there ya go. Now you have something they can say about you at your funeral. “He broke the law a lot, but never got caught”. Quite the legacy there. You must be so proud.

Gary

I am VERY proud that I have nothing to do with homosexuals, transsexuals, pedophiles, and those, LIKE YOU, who want to force me to be involved with them. I wouldn’t trade places with you for a million dollars.

thoughtsfromflorida

“I wouldn’t trade places with you for a million dollars.”

Not that anyone offered such a trade, but I certainly understand why you wouldn’t. It would be a shame to give up your legacy of “He broke the law a lot, but never got caught”. That’s priceless.

Gary

I don’t obey unjust laws. And I will continue to do that. I encourage everyone to follow my example. And, all moral people will follow my example.

thoughtsfromflorida

“I don’t obey unjust laws.”

Good for you!

“And, all moral people will follow my example.”

Be sure to publish a list of all the laws you think are unjust, so all moral people will know which ones they shouldn’t obey.

Gary

Moral people usually know which laws are unjust without my having to tell them.

thoughtsfromflorida

Perhaps. But you should publish a list just to be on the safe side.

thoughtsfromflorida

But if they changed the headline to be accurate, how in the world would they be able to stir up righteous indignation?

Cassandra Marie Frost

To all those concerned Christians out there i would say 1. take some time and educate yourself on what it is you’re talking about, we are not what our genitals define us as, we are how God made us to be. I am a follower of Christ, I am not asking for “special” considerations, just equal protections under the law. This is a civil rights issue not a religious one. I and my fellow brothers and sisters can be found in the bible. We are called eunuchs. So before you judge and condemn us, take some time and re-read your “Holy Bible” and quite trying to put God in a box. You may find when you look in the box that he is not there and never was.

“Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.” – Jesus

“Judge not lest ye be judged.” – Jesus

Peace and love to you all. ~ Cassandra Frost

Gary

You are either male or female, depending on what genitals you were born with. Trying to change that is wrong.

Barb

Please take some time to educate YOURSELF Cassandra:

I Timothy 1:8-11: We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.(Paul)

Leviticus 18:22: 22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.”

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