I really don't mind if folks take their favorite teams, even if they are powers. That's what the NCAA is. One of the reasons I prefer to play with just Goodjers is that we will have to worry much less about guys just taking the top teams. I see no reason Grumpicus shouldn't get Alabama and Maxox get Florida. We don't tend to have many guys that will take Ohio St just to get a good team.

Either way, I assume I am safe with Kansas. But if the game allows it, I can see dropping some of my out of conference games to play Oregon or Alabama. If I need a cupcake, I'm sure Fresno St. will be up for a game.

"I suggest we imbibe copious amounts of alcohol and just wait for the inevitable blast wave." - Castiel

I really don't mind if folks take their favorite teams, even if they are powers. That's what the NCAA is. One of the reasons I prefer to play with just Goodjers is that we will have to worry much less about guys just taking the top teams. I see no reason Grumpicus shouldn't get Alabama and Maxox get Florida. We don't tend to have many guys that will take Ohio St just to get a good team.

Either way, I assume I am safe with Kansas. But if the game allows it, I can see dropping some of my out of conference games to play Oregon or Alabama. If I need a cupcake, I'm sure Fresno St. will be up for a game.

The thing I like is that almost everyone will get a chance to win a bowl, as opposed to Madden, which only has one real championship game. Technically, there's only one National Champion in college, but most people will be satisfied with just winning a bowl. Of course, it would be awesome to see Rut.......................yeah, I couldn't bring myself to finish that statement

When I get it I'll toy around with what our options are in terms of scheduling and modifying the schedule, adding each other, etc. Then we can decide on if we want to add some out of conference games. Overall, though, I feel the same. I think the format of everyone picking a middle-tier team is fun because no one is starting out with Texas and then just bowling everyone over. We've seen that happen in the Madden league and I'd prefer not to repeat that here. Along with not using the same play over and over again. But that's just an honor thing.

Anyway, as long as everyone plays with the same respect for the game that we saw with APF2k I see no reason why everyone shouldn't just take their favorite team. My favorite team is Oregon State, so I'm picking them either way. Once again, though, I'm just a facilitator with slightly dictatorial tendencies.

I am in as well. I'll take University of Miami (the Hometown boys) or University of Florida (our family team). What is a middlin' team - like a B- or a C+ team? If that's what we are starting with - let me know. I love the SEC so I would play South Carolina or Tennessee as well. Havent had a chance to play the demo but I hear it is awesome.

I thought you might take Navy. I really enjoyed watching them dismantle Mizzou in the Texas Bowl last season.

I think Maxox would have dibs on the Gators if we take top tier teams.

If we are taking C or below Teams I would definitely take Navy, but if we are playing top tier I'd be happy with Miami and Maxox can have Florida. I grew up watching the Canes practice and play most weekends, I had friends go there and play and still watch most of their games during the season. We are big on Florida teams in our household anyhow, but I just like to play. Lots of great teams out there this year if you are a college football fan. Love me some Penn State Ball, any of the SEC teams are fun to watch, Oklahoma is always a show, even Oklahoma State can throw up the show time, I will wactch Boise State for the passing and the awesome Blue Field. Not a huge fan of I-AA football, but it will do in a pinch

I am in as well. I'll take University of Miami (the Hometown boys) or University of Florida (our family team). What is a middlin' team - like a B- or a C+ team? If that's what we are starting with - let me know. I love the SEC so I would play South Carolina or Tennessee as well. Havent had a chance to play the demo but I hear it is awesome.

Okay, remember when I said earlier that part of me running a league is that I try to facilitate the best experience possible and that I'm not afraid to stamp out cheese our non competitive situations that could arise? This has been one of my fears, honestly. And I'm going to say this out in the open, rather than through back-channels, so hopefully there are no hard feelings. I want to be honest, I want to be fair and I want to allow participation, but I think this has to be said.

Here's the thing, SpyNavy. Not only are you insanely good at the EA football games. Not only do you play them constantly. But you basically figure out the 5 money plays and run them constantly. This isn't going to happen in this league. I don't want to hear an argument about how you don't cheese and just play the game really well. I also don't want this to turn into a SpyNavy bash-fest. Let's just keep this simple. If I run the league I will have zero-tolerance for cheesing and abusing plays. And in the name of competition I would ask that people just take a team they like instead of trying to win at all costs.

I don't want to stop anyone from taking certain teams. We've talked about various scenarios we could play out and in the end it sounds like everyone wants to just pick a team they like and play. So I would ask that everyone consider being good sports and take a team you like and not necessarily the team that will guarantee you wins. And if you're really good, consider that for some of us getting beat 100-7 isn't fun and that it might make games more fun for everyone if you don't take a top tier team. I'm personally taking Oregon State because they're my team. If your team is Florida, so be it. But otherwise I would ask that everyone consider picking a team that gives them a challenge as well as a team they like. That way it will be more fun for everyone.

Once again, take this for what it is. I'm offering to run this league as this is my favorite of the EA games and now my favorite football game. If this seems harsh or offends anyone I am sorry and you're free to not like me and you're free not to play in the league and start a different league. But I want this to be a congenial affair. Competitive, but not cheese. Not as cutthroat. That's my goal.

Hmmm... Feel free to bash, to me these are just games. I love football and I enjoy playing and coaching football - I also enjoy playing the video game versions of football. However, I will not allow distortions of the truth or perception lie unanswered:

Here's the thing, SpyNavy. Not only are you insanely good at the EA football games. Not only do you play them constantly. But you basically figure out the 5 money plays and run them constantly. This isn't going to happen in this league. I don't want to hear an argument about how you don't cheese and just play the game really well.

I have long ago explained that I play formations and not plays and then read the defense and audible from there. Want to play cover 3 or cover 2 all game - then I am going to eat that up if I read it. Do I play 5 formations and go from there - you betcha, but it isnt 5 plays. Simply because I play well and win - that isnt cheese. There are GWJ'ers whose only losses were to me, but when they win - it is good - when I win it is cheese. Not sure I appreciate that. I spend 12-16 hrs a day at work - I wish I played constantly, but I dont - but I do "understand" football.

And if you're really good, consider that for some of us getting beat 100-7 isn't fun and that it might make games more fun for everyone if you don't take a top tier team. I'm personally taking Oregon State because they're my team. If your team is Florida, so be it. But otherwise I would ask that everyone consider picking a team that gives them a challenge as well as a team they like. That way it will be more fun for everyone.

I grew up in Miami, I have deep ties to that school. My parents live outside of Jacksonville and I spent my summers in a little town called Newberry - just outside Gainesville, my sister went to school with Tebow (nice fellow). I have deep ties to UF. I take teams I am a fan of or appreciate their play etc...

Once again, take this for what it is. I'm offering to run this league as this is my favorite of the EA games and now my favorite football game. If this seems harsh or offends anyone I am sorry and you're free to not like me and you're free not to play in the league and start a different league. But I want this to be a congenial affair. Competitive, but not cheese. Not as cutthroat. That's my goal.

I have been more then congenial, I have worked around everyone's schedule and I have even tried to help anyone who has asked and offered a number of times to help folks understand the game better. If you play Halo 3 or BF2, TF2 etc... and do great because you understand the game - how is that any different then understanding and playing a football game? I suck at Xbox 360 MP shooters, but when I play a game here or there - I dont complain because I got killed 36-1, I know it's because my opponent was better, had a deeper understanding of the game, and had more time behind the wheel. Feel free to bash, but dont distort fact to fit your reality or perception. I would never tell someone I dont want you to play because they were better then me at something - that would be motivation for me to improve my game. If you dont want me to play - then just say so, but dont distort the reason or the truth. I am a 37 year old Naval Officer, husband, father of two and so on - I hardly have enough time to enjoy video games, I certainly dont have time for head games.

Ouch. But we are Card-Strong now! Surely just a new coach should make us better than that? :(

Well, at least the Cards will be able to field a team when they're supposed to now, unlike with their previous coach. Man, that guy was awful. Has Jurich kept his job after that debacle? Wasn't Kragthorpe a personal friend of his?

Here's the thing, SpyNavy. Not only are you insanely good at the EA football games. Not only do you play them constantly. But you basically figure out the 5 money plays and run them constantly. This isn't going to happen in this league. I don't want to hear an argument about how you don't cheese and just play the game really well.

I have long ago explained that I play formations and not plays and then read the defense and audible from there. Want to play cover 3 or cover 2 all game - then I am going to eat that up if I read it. Do I play 5 formations and go from there - you betcha, but it isnt 5 plays. Simply because I play well and win - that isnt cheese. There are GWJ'ers whose only losses were to me, but when they win - it is good - when I win it is cheese. Not sure I appreciate that. I spend 12-16 hrs a day at work - I wish I played constantly, but I dont - but I do "understand" football.

You've said to me yourself that you spend hours playing the game with your son and that it's the game you play most. I'm not slagging you for being good. I'm just saying that as a general rule I would like those that are insanely good to respect the fact that the rest of us don't want our heads bashed in and to keep that in mind when choosing their team. Nothing more.

SpyNavy wrote:

I have been more then congenial, I have worked around everyone's schedule and I have even tried to help anyone who has asked and offered a number of times to help folks understand the game better. If you play Halo 3 or BF2, TF2 etc... and do great because you understand the game - how is that any different then understanding and playing a football game? I suck at Xbox 360 MP shooters, but when I play a game here or there - I dont complain because I got killed 36-1, I know it's because my opponent was better, had a deeper understanding of the game, and had more time behind the wheel. Feel free to bash, but dont distort fact to fit your reality or perception. I would never tell someone I dont want you to play because they were better then me at something - that would be motivation for me to improve my game. If you dont want me to play - then just say so, but dont distort the reason or the truth. I am a 37 year old Naval Officer, husband, father of two and so on - I hardly have enough time to enjoy video games, I certainly dont have time for head games.

This isn't a head game, so don't make it one, please. I'm being straight up with you. I feel that you abuse some plays and I feel that you are really really good. And I'm simply asking that you (and others who are excellent at this game like Ruthless should he choose to join) keep in mind that many of us game just for the fun and not choose teams that are overwhelmingly more talented just because and that you understand that I will take any complaints about cheese or abuse very seriously. Nothing more. I take your dispute that you don't do this and it's duly noted. I just wanted to be clear that under a league I run there won't be message board threads (as there were in Madden) or emails behind the scenes (as there were in Madden) complaining about individuals cheesing. I don't want to see that. I ask that everyone play the game like it's football.

Ouch. But we are Card-Strong now! Surely just a new coach should make us better than that? :(

Keep in mind that the goal is to try to run this thing for multiple seasons. So I personally am taking the team I am with the challenge that the players will get better, recruits will come in, etc. This actually brings up something important. There are a few well known guys out there (talked about on the "Operation Sports" message boards) who create rosters that rebalance the teams a little and add names to all the players. You can use these rosters in a league. Do we want to consider this?

Ouch. But we are Card-Strong now! Surely just a new coach should make us better than that? :(

Well, at least the Cards will be able to field a team when they're supposed to now, unlike with their previous coach. Man, that guy was awful. Has Jurich kept his job after that debacle? Wasn't Kragthorpe a personal friend of his?

Crapthorpe you mean?
Anybody who can take an Orange Bowl champion with half their starters returning and make them go 6-6 deserves some kind of award for incompetence. Ugh.

All the recruiting and popularity we had built with our Thurs night games on ESPN for the previous 5+ years, with our "play anyone" scheduling, with our Florida St and Miami nationally televised upsets... almost everything wiped out overnight by that idiot.

At least we still have our facilities and are still in a BCS conference. If Charlie can do half the job he did at Florida we'll be back ranked and fighting for a BCS bowl in 2 years. And we still have our ESPN love from Lee Corso and Tom Jackson... from Louisville!

Kush15 wrote:

Does that mean Kush and the Rutgers Scarlet Knights will see you during the regular season Stele?

I don't have a 360 right now. The NCAA Football and Basketball games are two of the ones I really miss only having a PC and Wii. EA has sworn off both systems it seems for college sports.

I could tentatively reserve my Cardinals in case I buy a slim in the next month or two.

DSGamer wrote:

This actually brings up something important. There are a few well known guys out there (talked about on the "Operation Sports" message boards) who create rosters that rebalance the teams a little and add names to all the players. You can use these rosters in a league. Do we want to consider this?

I assumed EA did mid-season or post-season "roster" updates? I know they do with the pro games.

NBA 2k10 on PC did roster updates every few weeks the whole season. Was great stuff.

EA typically leaves NCAA up to the fans. I think there are a couple reasons for this.

#1 - Many fans want to add the names and in the process create their own modified version of the original rosters with name changes and some star players possibly bumped up if EA originally set the roster too early.

#2 - Because there are no names on the players so people just like to play the schools and not worry about names. In this scenario EA believes, rightly so I might add, that you're too directly tying players in real life to the game if you bump them up during the season.

EA walks a fine line with NCAA football when it comes to the rules about players being amateurs, etc.

Okay, remember when I said earlier that part of me running a league is that I try to facilitate the best experience possible and that I'm not afraid to stamp out cheese our non competitive situations that could arise? This has been one of my fears, honestly. And I'm going to say this out in the open, rather than through back-channels, so hopefully there are no hard feelings. I want to be honest, I want to be fair and I want to allow participation, but I think this has to be said.

Here's the thing, SpyNavy. Not only are you insanely good at the EA football games. Not only do you play them constantly. But you basically figure out the 5 money plays and run them constantly. This isn't going to happen in this league. I don't want to hear an argument about how you don't cheese and just play the game really well. I also don't want this to turn into a SpyNavy bash-fest. Let's just keep this simple. If I run the league I will have zero-tolerance for cheesing and abusing plays. And in the name of competition I would ask that people just take a team they like instead of trying to win at all costs.

I have no problem with Spynavy playing with whatever team he wants (although, I'm not surprised he picked two top tier schools :)). I'll admit it's not fun playing against him most of the time but I consider cheese purposefully taking advantage of an AI glitches and I don't think that is what he's doing.

I admit, if we're allowed to pick any team, I'm going to take the one that matches my college ring... but I'm ok with grabbing a middle-tier team (it'll probably be one of the smaller LA or MS teams like Tulane, LA Tech, or Southern Miss.) if that's the type of league we're going to have. That being said, this isn't (yet) a day 1 purchase. I'm the type who only buys one football game a year and I'll sit back to see which one is the consensus "best" one.

I think we should actually be careful about throwing the word "cheese" around so easily. There is a fine line, and I don't think the SpyNavy ever intentionally crosses that line. But with any videogame, once you have mastered the nuances of the system, it is really hard not to take advantage of that system.

When I play, I have vague notions about when to go to a nickel or dime, and when to blitz. But it is possible to drill down and really know no just how these plays work in real life, but how the game treats them. No NFL team would ever run a 1-5-5 as a base defense. I do think Navy (the school, not Spy) ran something like this, but that was because Navy is not going to have a bunch of 300 lbs guys they can throw at you. But the 1-5-5 seems to be a good jack of all trades defense because you can read your opponent and focus on run or pass. You can also nano blitz like a MF out of it. But in the NFL you would get demolished if you tried to use that as a base defense.

SpyNavy sees a much bigger picture , the same way a Streetfighter guy will be able to see frames. I'm lucky if I actually pick up that the other guy is in a nickel vs, a dime. He can see what coverage I am using. But more than that, he has a list of plays dialed up that takes advantage of each coverage. I don't think that is cheese, but it is a different style of play than I am interested in. It becomes a game of rock/paper/scissors if you learn enough to take advantage of that. Worse, if I did learn that, then not only would games against others become less fun for me, but even playing the CPU would become pointless.

And that becomes where trying to play with SpyNavy becomes frustrating. If I actually became that good, it would ruin the game for me. So I play without ever learning how the AI works. I just assume it works like it would in real life, and learn from that. So to play SpyNavy is to concede every game. So when he wants the best rated teams in the league on top of that, it feels like overkill. It doesn't feel like he wants any more of a challenge than to see if he can put 70 points up on his friends.

"I suggest we imbibe copious amounts of alcohol and just wait for the inevitable blast wave." - Castiel

I don't think that is cheese, but it is a different style of play than I am interested in. It becomes a game of rock/paper/scissors if you learn enough to take advantage of that.

I enjoy the NES Tecmo Bowl r/p/s game. If Off/Def choose same play, Def wins. If Off/Def both choose a run/pass play, a few yards are gained. If Off/Def choose opposite run/pass plays, Off wins big.

I had a friend in college who used to dominate NCAA Football. Most of the time he would just call running plays with Ohio St (his fave team) and still manage to win without ever passing. I'm still not sure if he just played so much, or if he has specific plays or what. But suffice to say he won the EA Sports event at our alma mater one year and went on to the national competition in Vegas. I think he came in 3rd or 4th nationally. I do remember he was pretty pissed at the guy that beat him. That guy abused the dive button, so that anytime my friend was close to tackling him he would just dive to the ground, never allowing any chance for fumbles.

Anyway point is there are various levels of play. I knew I was never going to beat my friend, a) because I didn't own the game most years, and b) because he and his brother would play dynasties together over and over and every year my friend would win the championship. They must have played dozens and dozens of years the last decade, and he always wins. So I go into any exhibition game with him knowing I'm going to lose, and just taking comfort in the times I manage to score, or any drives I manage to stop him. Those little victories are enough.

I think we should actually be careful about throwing the word "cheese" around so easily. There is a fine line, and I don't think the SpyNavy ever intentionally crosses that line. But with any videogame, once you have mastered the nuances of the system, it is really hard not to take advantage of that system.

Well, as I said before this isn't about SpyNavy. The only reason I called him out is that I perceive that when I played him he seemed to use the same plays frequently. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that any league I helm will be one where we try not to abuse it.

Jayhawker wrote:

SpyNavy sees a much bigger picture , the same way a Streetfighter guy will be able to see frames. I'm lucky if I actually pick up that the other guy is in a nickel vs, a dime. He can see what coverage I am using. But more than that, he has a list of plays dialed up that takes advantage of each coverage. I don't think that is cheese, but it is a different style of play than I am interested in. It becomes a game of rock/paper/scissors if you learn enough to take advantage of that. Worse, if I did learn that, then not only would games against others become less fun for me, but even playing the CPU would become pointless.

I get that. That's why I don't play Streetfighter. I like to play games that don't have a rock/paper/scissors/win nature to them. I like to play games that are fluid and where on a given day anyone could win. And since EA's AI often leaves gaping holes exposed (anyone could abuse the flats, regardless of talent) I am just asking that everyone come into the league with the attitude that sportsmanship matters and part of being a good sport is not thrashing everyone using every advantage possible. That's why in real football there is college football (which has tiers), pro football, etc. If someone is leagues better than everyone else he plays at the next level. So the league that *I* am starting is a league where I'd like the playing field to be fairly level, either by people restraining themselves from using the same plays over and over or from people picking teams that handicap them a bit. Most of all I want everyone to have fun. And if this isn't for you, then there's always the opportunity for a competing league.

Grumpicus wrote:

I admit, if we're allowed to pick any team, I'm going to take the one that matches my college ring... but I'm ok with grabbing a middle-tier team (it'll probably be one of the smaller LA or MS teams like Tulane, LA Tech, or Southern Miss.) if that's the type of league we're going to have. That being said, this isn't (yet) a day 1 purchase. I'm the type who only buys one football game a year and I'll sit back to see which one is the consensus "best" one.

Picking a team based on your college ring makes complete sense, honestly. I don't know your play style enough to know how good you are at NCAA. My point of view is just that I want to have a competitive, fun and fairly casual league. That's the league I want. So if your talent doesn't give you a distinct advantage while using your favorite team, then I could care less. I expect everyone to be better than me. I'd just like to avoid 70-0 blowouts where people don't really want to play the games.

All of this keeping in mind that if we pick teams across the country we're not likely to play each other much unless we change up schedules. So that's to be determined based on what the game actually allows.