I never once said anything about fleecing - I googled to find out what those things were and found what I linked. I merely reported facts (the website link, the price, and the trade in program). And asked a question (about the purpose of the machines - which wasn't answered - if these things can be used for anything other than bitcoin mining).<div>

<br></div><div>I then wanted to see the link, because - as I said, if I can buy one at $599 and sell it at $749 - that is something I want to do. And I've found that you can learn a lot about how to sell things by looking at auctions that have successfully sold the same item you are wanting to sell. I couldn't find his auction, and I looked using every keyword I could think of (Butterfly - labs - bfl - single - bitcoin...).</div>

<div><br></div><div>I never called anyone an idiot... well not in this thread anyway.</div><div><br></div><div>Some people don't do research - or, as you said - they have other reasons for spending their money. I have sold things for more than I paid for them. That's called capitalism. I have no problem with that.<br>

<div><div><br></div><div>Eric's auction listing was very straightforward, he mentioned the noise and that it is less powerful/fast as the manufacturer claims.</div><div><br></div><div>And, as you pointed out - I can't do what I wanted to do because the website won't even let me place an order. It lets me get pretty far before just not letting me continue. So - limited supply higher demand means higher cost. Again, that's capitalism.</div>

<div><br></div><div>I neither expressed nor implied any type of value judgment on the sale price of the item. At worst I sale-blocked people on this list from buying it with information that took me 2 minutes to google to find out (something they are all capable of doing on their own). I didn't do merely as much "damage" to sale as Lynn did by pointing out the product will be more than obsolete where the next gen is actually released.</div>

<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Chad,<div><br></div><div>You are kind of... a dick.</div><div><br></div><div>You essentially tell Eric that he is fleecing somebody by trying to sell it for $700.</div><div><br></div><div>

Eric listens to you yammer but doesn't really call you out, then quietly sells it for more on eBay.</div><div><br></div><div>Then you insinuate that you don't believe him and ask for his auction link. Just in case he did sell it you hedge your bet and say I wanna buy them all day long for $599 and sell them for $749.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Chad: eBay is an ECONOMY and pricing within any economy has specific reasons... in this case AVAILABILITY. $599 is the price for VAPORWARE, $749 is the price to OWN IT TODAY.</div><div><br></div><div>
Furthermore, the person that bought it for $750 is not an idiot, they are reacting to an unknown (by you) stimulus.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I almost never offer up my old tech for sale here on the list because this is a very small economy. Ebay and even Craig's list offer a much larger and more diverse economy that ALWAYS results in a better sale price for my wares.</div>

FYI: I just sold it for $749+shipping on eBay.<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-Eric</div></font></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div><br clear="all">-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>

Chad, <div>With the prices of the Jalapeno you should be able to make the entire purchase price back in a few months, maybe less if you get it before the difficulty goes insane. ASICs are going to be a huge game changer in bitcoin mining, just as much as moving from CPU to GPU mining was. The beauty of the Jalapeno is its super simple to operate, silent, and draws less power than charging your mobile phone. </div>

<div>It actually draws 4.5 watts of power and BFL states you can power it from any USB 2.0 computer with only a single USB plug (not like the old dual headed dongles of optical drives long gone). They have been focusing on their mining front-end called EasyMiner which, well, makes mining using their hardware easy. :)</div>

<div><br></div><div>The Jalapeno was specifically designed for new folks to get into mining with little cost and risk, and without the complications of a huge mining rig like I have. Everyone has also been calling the thing a "Coffee Warmer" since you can set a cup of coffee on the thing and keep it warm. Its also going to pretty small so you can stuff it in your laptop bag, and simply plug it in whenever you are wanting to mine, anywhere you happen to be.</div>

<div><br></div><div>If you want to take a step a bit larger than the Jalapeno, but not as big as a SC Single, BFL is introducing the yet-to-be-named "Mini Single" which is half the power of the SC Single, and half the price as well.</div>

<div><br></div><div>So the TLDR: Yes, the jalapeno is an excellent choice for someone who wants to get into mining with no experience. There is a good chance you will make your money back in as little as 3 months or so.</div>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I tried bitcoin mining a couple years back, and I don't think I ever got a single bitcoin - I didn't have any dedicated hardware and at the hash rate I was getting, I was losing money just in the power rate alone.<div>

<br></div><div>That said - in your opinion - do you think getting a Jalapeno would be worth it for the noob bitcoin miner?</div><div><br></div><div>I wouldn't expect to make a profit in a month or anything, but eventually - as in well less than a year.</div>

Eric,<div>No offense intended on my offer. I have been mining a long time, and keeping up with the mining trends. I have some ASIC hardware (a few pieces :) ) pre-ordered from BFL since the day the started taking pre-orders. I purchase mining hardware with a strict ROI figure in mind.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Theres a good chance the person you bought the single from replaced the fan with a larger, higher CFM unit. That seems to be the trend on the FPGAs (especially folks using some of the beta firmwares BFL releases). </div>

<div><br></div><div>If you can sell that Single for $700 bucks on ebay, that might be the best bet. If I were you, I would try do a trade-in for an ASIC single, and just find some way of mining the one you have until BFL asks you to send your old one in. They are giving full value on the trade even if you weren't the original buyer. Thats a sweet deal in itself. I'm not sure if you heard, but they have "increased" the hash rate of the SC singles to 60 GHash. </div>

<div>At the current difficulty and current MT. Gox prices, 850 MHash is netting around $2.82 per day (about $85 per month). Theres a good chance you will be able to mine the difference in trade in prices for one of their SC Singles if you can bear the noise for a few months. </div>

<div>With BFL's new production lines they have been bragging about, and being able to produce 500 units per day, the network is going to see some massive increases in hashing power. </div><div>

My plan was to mine and trade up to the SC... But the Single's 32dB spec is way off. I'm reading close to 60dBC and 50dBA at normal operation. Since the thing needs to be tethered to a computer, I can't stash it anywhere out of ear-shot.<div>

<br></div><div>I'll just sell it on ebay where the Singles are hovering around $750.</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-Eric<div><br></div></div></font></span><div class="gmail_extra">

There's a trade in deal if you plan on getting one of the SC models - <a href="http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/" target="_blank">http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/</a><div>

Am I to understand that the sole purpose of these computers is BitCoin mining?<div><br clear="all"><font size="4"><i><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">-</span><font style="font-family:garamond,serif"> Chad W. Smith</font></i></font><div>

Eric,<div>The ASICs were first announced to be shipping late October, but that date has slipped due to the chip manufacturers. BFL is expecting to ship late November, and they have promised to have every single pre-order up to Nov. 1st shipped by the end of December. They have also stated they have paid for a bullet run production of 20k chips, and they have their lines ready to produce 500 units per day once they receive the chips. So, within 45 to 60 days, the current BFL singles (FPGA) will be pretty much worthless as anyone can pickup a Jalepeno for $149 that will hash at 5.5 times the speed of the current FPGA singles. </div>

<div><br></div><div>So, once they hit the market, the old singles will essentially be worthless since a jalapeno is multitudes faster, multitudes cheaper, runs silent, and only consumes about 5 watts of power.</div><div>

<br>
</div><div>Your best bet is to just mine with the single you have now, try to recover as much as you can from the purchase price you gave, and then once the asics hit (which will skyrocket difficulty) turn off the old single since the 800 mhash wont generate enough btc worth the electricity costs.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Thats why I am offering you the hosted solution. If you are not happy with the noise, I can mine with it on my current rig and give you some of the profits.</div><div><br></div><div>Other than that, I can offer you about $150 bucks for it since thats about all the money I will make in the 2 months before the insane difficulty rise makes 800 mhash worthless. Not to mention we're only about 25-ish days away from the block reward halving, which has the potential to reduce your profits by 50%.</div>

For how many months have the BFL ASIC singles been "shipping next month"? And if you ordered now, where will you be in the queue when (if?) they finally ship?<span><font color="#888888"><div><br>
</div>
<div>-Eric<br><div><br></div><div><br><div>
<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></font></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div><br clear="all">-=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=-<br>Eric B. Wolf <a href="tel:720-334-7734" value="+17203347734" target="_blank">720-334-7734</a><br>

<p dir="ltr">Eric, <br>
With BFL asics shipping in the next 30 days, you will have a hard time selling that single for 100 bucks. The asic jalapeño will do 4.5 ghash silently using about 5 watts of power and it sells for 149 right now. </p><p dir="ltr">

In would be willing to host your single on my dedicated mining rig and share profits with you. I have solid power and network and would cover all electricity and cooling costs as well as provide the host rig for the mining software. <br>

We could create a joint pool account and both share the login for it to avoid ambiguity and split the btc at a determined rate. </p><p dir="ltr">If your interested in doing this let me know and we can discuss details. <br>

<div>
Anyone want a BFL Single? I just got it off eBay but even with new fans, it's louder than I want in my workspace. I'm running autotune on it right now to see how fast it runs.<div><br></div><div>I'd like to get $700 for it, shipping included.</div>