A LOOK AT BLACKBURN LANCASHIRE IN DAYS GONE BY
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Thursday, 14 February 2013

Blackburn Past on Facebook

Dear user 17 February 2012

Please be aware, this site and its Facebook group
have no connection with any of the other 'Blackburn history' Facebook groups, not even one with a similar name to our own. (Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so they say).BlackburnPasthttp://www.facebook.com/groups/271205912073/ is our one and only Facebook group.

Just prior to starting this project in August 2009, we
endeavoured to seek permission from various local organisations and companies, so that we could use certain images and documents and in most instances, permission was
granted (along with the expected, usual conditions of use) and wherever
possible, wealwayscredit our sources. Below each
image/post on here you will see a reference to the owner, whether that be an individual
or an organisation.

Some of the other, above mentioned, recently formed Facebook groups,
have no respect for and very little adherence to internet etiquette, they accept low standards and
have absolutely no hesitation in using others material, without permission and
without acknowledgement.

In the recent weeks and months, their members (and sadly, also their administrators) have taken photos and text
from this site and passed them off as their own, then rebuked and insulted our own administrator when he objected. They have taken photos from other
websites, Cottontown, the Olive Green and Ivory site and have also scanned
numerous images from books by local historians (George Miller, Derek Beattie, Peter
Worden, Robin Whalley, Ray Smith and others), totally ignoring each publishers
copyright. For obvious reasons, we want to clearly disassociate ourselves
from all of them. We believe our standards on here (and on Facebook) are far higher than theirs and we will continue to try our best to abide by the accepted, if sometimes unwritten, rules.

Enjoy this site and if you
feel you need to use images or text elsewhere, then please first request permission and acknowledge the owners and the source, just as we do. It is courteous to do so. (usually
the credit can be found at the foot of each post).

Hi - I don't mean to state the obvious, but you need to be a member of Facebook, ie have an account with them.

If you are already a member, then it could be because the group(s) you are trying to view are ''closed'' groups. You would have to become a member of each group to view the content.

Our own group, Blackburn Past, is an ''open'' group, just like the majority of groups on Facebook and you can view the content whether or not you choose to join (you are welcome to join at any time).

The ''closed'' groups are in my opinion, closed for a reason, usually because they have something to hide. They know they are doing wrong in taking images and text from here, there and everywhere, willy nilly, so like to operate behind closed doors.

If you do join those groups (I wouldn't personally, but it's up to yourself), you will soon realise that they are all run by the same, small group of individuals. They are the same group that ensured the demise of the old Blackburn Now & Then website.

Hi ColinIt’s good to see that you’ve decided to reopen this Blog. I totally applaud the statement you have put on the home page regarding the blatant use of other people’s material without asking prior permission.

To Anonymous….I’m a member of some of the “Open Groups” on Blackburn; but none of the “Closed Groups” which Colin refers to, and he’s spot on with the underhanded tactics they employ. They have total disregard as to the source of their material and have little or no historical content attached to them, unlike this one of Colin’s.

You're free to join any groups you like Anonymous. I don't join the ''closed'' groups on principle, that's all. Plus I've had experience of some of the members, they do like to pick fights and argue. In fact one of the groups was only set up because of a falling out / argument they had with the administrator of the Blackburn Now & Then group.

John, yep decided to re-open it. Closing it only means they would have won, achieved their aim. If they're going to copy & paste everything I put on here, then so be it.

That's something you would have to ask the administrator. I know he ran his own web design business and time was a factor (I think his lad was running the BN & T site towards the end). I did moderate on that site, but I hadn't had any involvement for a good 10 months before it finally wrapped up.

I did still look in from time to time and as mentioned above and elsewhere, towards the end, it had become very stale and was being dominated by a handful of individuals who had no real interest in the concept behind the site, looking at Blackburn now and then, but just wanted to talk incessantly about themselves. The admin (Darren) did ask them a few times to take their monotonous droning onto Facebook, but they just ignored him. Like you, I just went for a look on the site one day and it was gone.

The Facebook group for BN & T is still running though and for a time, maybe 3 months, after the site closed down, it was OK, but then the same group of people (mentioned above) joined that and it very soon began to go the same way as the site.

Again Darren tried to reason with them, tried to keep them on topic, but their ringleaders threw a strop at him (over a photo of a dog as I recall) and then went off and formed their own Facebook group. The only problem was, they had very little material, so started taking material from this and other sites / sources, hence my message at the top of this post.

As I say, the BN & T Facebook group is still running and is still quite active. I contribute myself from time to time.

My apologies if I appear to be sending mixed messages. I can see what you mean.

I have never really had a problem with people using the photos off this site. I realised that was bound to happen when I first set it up. I've seen the odd photo pop up here there and everywhere over the last 3 years and have usually thought ''Mmmmmmmmm, would have been nice if you had asked first''

It's not the odd photo used here and there that bothers me. As mentioned above, a handful of the troublemakers from the BN & T site went off (after a fall out with the admin) and formed another Facebook group. Well less than a week after they had set up, I happened to have a look on their group and was gobsmacked to see that some woman had downloaded 18 photos from this site, in less than 24 hours. Not a mention of where she had taken them from though, even though at least 15 of them had the Blackburnpast.com logo on them. Her cronies on that group were all saying things like ''nice photos'' etc and all she was saying was ''Oh thanks'' Not a mention of where she had taken them from.

Well I thought if she's prepared to take 18 photos at one sitting, then she will probably do it again and again and before long every photo on here would have been on their Facebook group. So I inboxed her and politely told her that it wasn't really on. She argued the toss for an hour or so, but did eventually agree to remove them. Well she removed 17, she missed one and it's still on that group to this day ;-)

I thought that was that, but then about a month later, another woman started doing the same thing and uploaded about 20 images to the same group. I again inboxed this second woman and she apologised and again removed the images.

Then a few weeks back, some bloke did the same, downloaded 35 images from this site and uploaded them to the same group. It was now getting a bit silly, so I decided to message the administrator of the group, hoping he would be reasonable about it and say to his members ''Come on, be fair, this isn't on'' Not so from what I've been told. Instead of doing the decent thing, he chose to post my personal message to him on his group, inviting his sycophantic little inner circle (and they are little, 10 at most, the rest of the group are probably good decent folk) to have their say.

Luckily for me, the guy that had taken the 35 photos was a decent sort and he took it upon himself to remove them.

As mentioned in the post at the top Martin, some of the images on this site belong to other people. I had to get their permission to use them, so I feel obliged to protect their rights too. As also mentioned, the people running these other groups (and they are the same people, even if they use different names on different groups) are only out to create trouble. They ruined the BN & T site, they then did their best to ruin the BN & T Facebook group and have tried to undermine what I have done on this group.

Well they can try, but they wont succeed.

To answer your question. No, I don't object to people using a few images off here, don't even mind if they use the info I have (sometimes studiously) compiled, but it would be nice if they asked first, nice if they limited the amount they take and nice if they acknowledged the source.

Are you the Martin that was involved with BN & T right at the very start? Was it you that uploaded the photo of the Technical School from the 1940's ? Where you matey with Joe?

Hey you right. Got a look on 2 other facebook groups as my partener is a member but I didn't know. They are all full of stuff off cottontown and from books. Like you said people was arguing tonight (lol) about four lane ends name and blaming council (lol). Do you have any photos of little harwood on here.

Hi - I don't think I have any photos of Little Harwood, none I can think of at the moment anyway. There's one of the Star Cinema on the cinema post. Is it Little Harwood in general you are after, or somewhere specific ?

I can believe they were arguing, as I said above somewhere, they do seem to like arguing. My guess is, someone will have disagreed with the 'boss' and then the sycophants will have honed in on the dissenter like a pack of rabid wolves. That's how it seems to work.

Blaming the council? From what I can remember, half of them worked for the council, or were ex council / local government employees. Their comments often had that condescending tone, you know, the type of smug gits you get on the other end of the phone when you ring the Town Hall for anything.

Thanks Colin. Have seen all those on cottontown. Thought you might have some other ones. There was a woman on one of those other facebook groups last week saying she had 4 or 5 other names on facebook so you right about that.

This is just to let you know that your link to olivegreenandivory.co.uk no longer works. The site has been taken down by the owner for much the same reasons you have cited here - theft of images and text. How sad.

Thanks for the message. I wasn't aware and yes, I agree, it is sad and as he says, the few have spoilt it for the many. I will leave the link for the time being, as the admin may make his site 'live' again sometime. Also anyone following the link will get to see his message.

I rarely ever use Flickr, but I have seen quite a few of his images on the various Blackburn Facebook groups. There's none on my own, I hasten to add. I have only ever once used one of the photos from his site, one of Bolton Rd / Gt Bolton St (for one of the pub groups) and I first asked his permission, credited him and even went so far as to 'watermark' his name on the image.

Sadly, as mentioned in other replies on this post, the so called administrators on those other Blackburn groups don't have the same respect for other's work as I do. And it is the administrators that have to accept the responsibility. They form these groups, it is up to them to police what goes onto their groups.

The trouble with Facebook and I'll assume with Flickr, is that anyone can create an identity and to a degree, can hide behind it. That Jimmy Clitheroe Smythe character, or whatever he/she is calling there self this week has taken virtually every image off Cottontown, not only the images, but has copied and pasted the text that accompanies every image. Cottontown allow people to use their images (not too sure they would be happy to see hundreds on the one group though), but there's nothing on Cottontown to say that anyone can just come along and use their text, which in law, is their ''intellectual property''

I have tried to reason, politely, with the admin on all three of the other 'Blackburn history' FB groups and got nowhere. Just before adding the above post, I tried a more assertive approach to the administrator of one group (privately, in a personal message to him), but he copied and pasted my message onto his group page and ridiculed my requests.

They are selfish idiots,with wool between their ears and those types, you just cannot reason with, as I have found out to my cost.

I hope the Olive Green & Ivory owner, who I know has strong connections with the Cottontown staff at the library, takes things further than just taking down his site. I know he has spent decades (at least 40 years), gathering his collection together and I too think it's very sad that he has had to close it due to ignorant imbeciles.

Anyway, thanks for your message and do hope we see the OG & I site live again at some point. Public transport isn't something that I personally have a lot of interest in, though I know that many others do, but there was more to that site than just transport, it was an excellent resource for anyone with a genuine interest in our social/local history.

Hi I have been trying to find a way to message you through blogger but can't seem to find the option. I was wondering if you could possibly help me out with a query I have regarding Blackburn history please? Would you or any of your followers know how many pubs were in the Blackburn area in the late 1960s please? Or if not, how I could go about finding out?

I'm not sure how you could find out the exact number. The reference department in the central library might be able to advise you. They may have copies of records for the licencing sessions for any given year.

Alternatively, they may have a copy of a Telephone Directory / Yellow Pages of the time, which would probably list them all (though it might need someone to count through them all).

The Barrett's Trade Directories would have a complete list (give or take a handful of pubs) for any of the years they were issued. They weren't issued every year, just once every 3 - 4 years. The only problem is, I think the last Barretts Directory for Blackburn & District was issued in 1966. I'm pretty sure there isn't a later one, as I think the Yellow Pages took over from about that time.

Thanks John, its much appreciated,although its 40 odd years ago, its still interesting of course, but what I'm hoping for is for some family member who has been unaware the storage box under the stairs has so many wonderful old Blackburn street scenes and more, just waiting to be seen again, after so long out of the spotlight,

You would think there might be some out there, wouldn't you Rob. There probably is, dusty reels sitting in boxes, just waiting to be discovered. None in our family though. My dad had an ordinary camera or two in the day, but that's all.

Thanks for that Colin, I know you are busy but like you I'm sure there are quite a few gems of film here and there, but the people who have them , for whatever reason, just are oblivious to the demand of such treasures and probably will never bother to delve too deep to give local history buffs that holy grail of footage that will have us foaming at the mouth, well you never know, cheers Colin anyway. and have a good Christmas with the family, after all, that's all that really matters.

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About Me

PLEASE ENSURE YOU READ THE BOLD TEXT AT THE BOTTOM (THE LEGAL STUFF) ...... I have had an interest in local history, for the larger part of my life and over the years, I have accumulated lots of images (postcards and photographs mainly). Through this blog, I hope to share some of them with the world. If you like what you see, please feel free to comment. If you have any questions about any of the posts, please ask and I will do my best to answer them within 48 hours.
PLEASE CLICK ON THE PHOTOS TO EXPAND THEM A LITTLE OR OPEN THEM IN A PROGRAMME ON YOUR COMPUTER AND ENLARGE THEM AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE! --------
PLEASE NOTE:- ALL IMAGES ARE SUBJECT TO COPYRIGHT AND PERMISSION HAS BEEN SOUGHT (WHERE POSSIBLE) AND GRANTED BEFORE PUBLISHING. COPYING THESE IMAGES WITHOUT THE OWNERS CONSENT MAY LEAVE YOU LIABLE TO THE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES - NOW ''ENJOY'' -------------------------------- CHEERS --- BLACKBURNLAD

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