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I mean, it's pretty safe to assume that the overwhelming majority of people are against racism, whether it be the theory or the practical application.

It seems about as sensible as declaring yourself an 'anti-rapist'. Yes, that's great, but we all think it's wrong too, it's just a little bloody obvious, so why make a point of it.

I guess the reports of the LM,HR event in London brought this to mind. That said, I love the thought of a bunch of white people who would never dream of voting BNP chanting 'Fuck the BNP' in response to some other white people urging them not to vote for...errr...the BNP.

they say it to show that they actively disagree with something (racism in this case) and to show that they are not as apathetic about it as most people are, and probably hoping to make people more aware of their own thoughts about the issue at the same time.

but I'm guessing that's not what you meant. I think the main issue is that there are people who just don't give a fuck, which is probably the issue that these "self idenitified anti-racists" want to address. To make people think about it more.

they know that the word racism has a lot of negativity attached to it, and hope to avoid being labelled as racists in order to get people's attention and be taken seriously. Their ideas are still the same, right?

but as I have been arguing, the main targets of such campaigning are probably not the already "converted" in either direction, but the vast majority of people who stand in the middle of it and stare blankly in front of them, refusing (or simply not bothering) to take a stand. See the difference? And the rhetorics of continuing to call them racists are aimed at those same people - the BNP and their supporters already know they're racists, no matter how desperate they are to convince anyone else that they are not. To put it quite simply, they know that the term racism doesn't sell, doesn't get them votes, so they try to avoid it. The anti-racists are using it for those exact reasons.

i.e. the tendency of some anti-racists to group a whole lot of things under the bracket of 'racism' that don't really fit (being anti-immigration being a big one).

And the danger is people then think "well if I'm being called a racist 'cos of something that isn't really racism then maybe the BNP are being falsely accused too". And then start to consider voting for them...

I was talking more about the apathetics who just don't think it matters, than actual racists.

Secondly, if people like those weren't around to stand in a crowd looking silly chanting FUCK THE BNP or whatever, then who would be around to make it glaringly obvious that racism IS an unwanted thing in our society? Cause people who shrug it all of certainly aren't going to send out any kind of message to anyone.

but if racism (or any theory or concept) is really that obviously unacceptable then how can apathy towards that issue be any more accepted? If we all think racism is so bad then why don't more of us take it more seriously?

They might not have achieved much that can be measured in numbers and statistics but like I said, they do at least give out the message that they still fucking care. And frankly I find it amazing how you can call someone "yobbish and undignified" for standing up for something they believe strongly in. And I hope you realise that they think all of us are just as silly.

And obviously wanting to ban the BNP simply because they disagree is stupid and contradictory and all of those things.

Ultimately the resurgence of extreme right-wing politics at the moment is because people feel the mainstream political parties are stifling debate and rightly or wrongly feel like they're being told what they have to think about immigration, cultural relavatism etc. without being allowed to express their own views or deviate from the party line.

Ultimately mass get-togethers saying racism is bad are all well and good but they are basically telling people what to think without explaining why to think it. And the stupid thing is anti-racism, egalitarianism, respect for other cultures and respect for human rights of others are all excellent causes that people SHOULD be able to successfully argue for every single time. And the failure to do this and tendency to instead chant as a mass "it's bad, don't do it" leads to the kind of alienation that leads to sensible people pursuing extreme policies.

although surely the "tendency to instead chant as a mass "it's bad, don't do it" leads to the kind of alienation that leads to sensible people pursuing extreme policies" can work the other way as well.

That said, I just think it's better that they are at least there than no one doing anything because it's not their ideal form of expression.

I see you're way of thinking but don't necessarily think taking a form of action is always better than taking no action at all.

I quite angry about this subject area 'cos I increasingly get the impression that, having achieved so much from the sixties through to the nienties, we're starting to lose the battle on racism a bit and I do think a large part of the reason for this is the debate hasn't been moved on from the language/actions of the seventies (when racism really was a common and open thing). Ultimately the truth is that the extreme right have moved their tactics onto a much more subtle footing and have done so with some success and essentially the anti-racism movemnet needs to do the same.