AFAIK, those cablecards are not included in these stats since they are married to the cablebox.

I'm not so sure all of them are married, had issues with a cable box last spring and my CC sent a guy out, after finding the problem he swapped out the card out of the back on the box which was a standard Motorola cable card which fixed it. They are only married in the sense that a new one has to be paired just like our Tivos do.

Now this box I have from them is rather unique, I looked it up the net and found that by adding a USB hard drive, it becomes a dvr. I keep thinking about adding a drive to see what happens but i keep forgetting since it not high on my list of things to do.

Yes the stats provided only show the decrease in consumer supplied cards but the point is that there the cable company boxes take advantage of them, which of course the companies don't a big deal made of such. Still would be curious how many cards X company bought and the percentages used internally and not distributed to consumers.

I'm not so sure all of them are married, had issues with a cable box last spring and my CC sent a guy out, after finding the problem he swapped out the card out of the back on the box which was a standard Motorola cable card which fixed it. They are only married in the sense that a new one has to be paired just like our Tivos do.

I don't know of many cable companies that will allow switching out a cablecard in their own box. They are not allowed to do that at TWC and Comcast. Perhaps a local tech did it for you but he probably wasn't suppose to. And on most of these cable boxes, the cards are pre-paired. The pairing process is not the same.

Same ole same ole - we don't want AllVid because we don't want to be dumb pipes providing IP streams to any and all comers with open standards. We want to control the user experience from end to end with our own apps and boxes so we can monetize every bit of it.

TV Everywhere is their standard answer to AllVid, but it's just another means to collude as an industry to force people to keep subscribing to their local cableCo instead of providing a true internet-based TV system to allow people to subscribe to whatever they want. They want nothing to do with an open IP access standard, they want to provide their own apps on these platforms and claim that's good enough, Tivo et al be damned.

I also really wish the DoJ's investigation into Time Warner's 'exclusive' contracts with content providers had borne fruit, it would have forced an open market with compulsory licensing of content that we don't have today. There's a reason why there are no internet TV providers today to compete with cable and sat - exclusive tying and bundling that locks everyone else out. And if they were ever forced to open it up, the cableCos will cap HSI to get the money on the other end (this is happening again on Comcast).

The problem is much broader than AllVid, in other words - it's a complete failure by the FCC and Congress to ensure an open market for TV and HSI.

Same ole same ole - we don't want AllVid because we don't want to be dumb pipes providing IP streams to any and all comers with open standards. We want to control the user experience from end to end with our own apps and boxes so we can monetize every bit of it.

TV Everywhere is their standard answer to AllVid, but it's just another means to collude as an industry to force people to keep subscribing to their local cableCo instead of providing a true internet-based TV system to allow people to subscribe to whatever they want. They want nothing to do with an open IP access standard, they want to provide their own apps on these platforms and claim that's good enough, Tivo et al be damned.

I also really wish the DoJ's investigation into Time Warner's 'exclusive' contracts with content providers had borne fruit, it would have forced an open market with compulsory licensing of content that we don't have today. There's a reason why there are no internet TV providers today to compete with cable and sat - exclusive tying and bundling that locks everyone else out. And if they were ever forced to open it up, the cableCos will cap HSI to get the money on the other end (this is happening again on Comcast).

The problem is much broader than AllVid, in other words - it's a complete failure by the FCC and Congress to ensure an open market for TV and HSI.

Extremely well said... I think it would be extremely beneficial if you would post those thoughts to the record on 97-80... I will do the same. Its the only mechanism we have to at least make it known that we don't agree with the NCTA's assertion. I'm contemplating whether or not there are some other channels the consumer can use to make it clear that the NCTA is wrong.

I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.

I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.

Fair enough... you are probably right but the effort to raise the flag at least means the minority that believes in consumer choice wasn't silent during this battle.

Like Dan203, I used to have more cablecards than I do now (twice as many).

I had 6 of them in six 2-tuner TiVo boxes.

Now I have 3 of them in three 4-tuner Roamios. One of these isn't used for anything except as an extra to swap-in, should one fail, or otherwise not be able to perform its duties (which has happened once already).

I did not have the luxury of just keeping the extra cablecards (hoarding them, just in case....), because Cox (in my market) auto-nukes any card that has been inactive (has not received and successfully processed authorization) for more than 3 months. Once that happens, they must be replaced (although I'm sure the replacements might have been nuked, then re-programmed to work again). I can not force them to just un-nuke an existing card I had laying around, unused (although once on my account, I still pay ALL associated fees, per card, until returned).

So, looking at my house as a single household in a study of one household, my cablecard use (active cards) is halved. I worried about the bigger picture, and how the other households moving to more tuners per device, requiring less cablecards, and the resulting "numbers" or "statistics" would be manipulated by those who want them gone. Cox (and other MSOs) are also moving to 6-tuner devices, making the numbers even more dire, if not used in the CORRECT context(s).

Cox has been reclaiming their own 2-tuner non-integrated boxes (with cablecards), then scrapping them, and using those cards for retail "bring your own box" customers. If you ask for their standard 2-tuner STB or DVR now, you get an older model, with integrated security (no cablecard).

I pushed them on this practice, and they said the integration ban and FCC mandates did not say they had to scrap, or not re-issue, EXISTING equipment, only that they couldn't make new equipment without non-integrated cablecards inside. They say they are free to keep using the old ones, and to refurbish them for re-issue. It's a great way for them to not have to purchase any more "new" cablecards, while decreasing the numbers/stats for currently deployed and active cablecards.

It's all very dismal and distressing. If the numbers were used in the true and proper context(s), it would show cablecard as being a success (despite all the headaches and issues with using them). It's also a success story in energy efficiency. Using less of full-featured DVRs with a cablecard in each and every one means energy savings. Less cards and more tuners (and more extender devices) equals less energy use, period. I'd bet money on that none of the "pros" get presented, only the "cons" (which there are less of, when things are presented in proper contexts)...

I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.

Anti-trust isn't relevant. Cable companies have been locking consumers in for decades without ever having to run afoul of anti-trust laws.

You talk about enforcement but what we're facing is a loss of any hope for enforcement. The NCTA is pushing their faux "consumer choice" as an excuse for the FCC to gut the regulations that have at least forced things to the point where just about any cable customer can buy a CableCard device and expect that it will work even if it's a hassle. That wasn't the case not so many years ago.

Anti-trust isn't relevant. Cable companies have been locking consumers in for decades without ever having to run afoul of anti-trust laws.

You talk about enforcement but what we're facing is a loss of any hope for enforcement. The NCTA is pushing their faux "consumer choice" as an excuse for the FCC to gut the regulations that have at least forced things to the point where just about any cable customer can buy a CableCard device and expect that it will work even if it's a hassle. That wasn't the case not so many years ago.

TiVos and some PCs are the only new stuff that can takes cable cards, I don't think any new HDTVs have cable slots, if anybody knows of anything else that takes cable cards, that is new and for retail sale, please let me know.

TiVos and some PCs are the only new stuff that can takes cable cards, I don't think any new HDTVs have cable slots, if anybody knows of anything else that takes cable cards, that is new and for retail sale, please let me know.

TiVos and some PCs are the only new stuff that can takes cable cards, I don't think any new HDTVs have cable slots, if anybody knows of anything else that takes cable cards, that is new and for retail sale, please let me know.

Quite a few. Some were just showcased at CES.

There's now retail "cable boxes" without DVR.

There's now retail "DVR boxes" besides TiVo.

There's now hybrid devices that are meant to be all-in-one, with Blu-Ray player, smart apps for your TV, streaming capabilities, and more (DVR, and beyond).

There's HDHomeRun type devices now supporting one or more cards to provide insane tuner numbers, and some are also meant to be network accessible in a manner that makes them behave like any device on your network has the cablecard inside it.

zatznotfunny.com has many blogs on these (out-of-nowhere) devices.
engadget.com also
gigaom.com as well

It's struck all the bloggers, reviewers, and commentators as strange that many well-known name brand CE manufacturers, as well as newcomers, have suddenly embraced a technology implementation whose imminent death seemed very certain.

I breath a sigh of relief with every new device I see that supports or requires cablecard.

I think CableCards will be with us for at least another few years. The cable companies have spent lots of money to put CableCards in 40+ million cable boxes. At the snails pace with which cable companies seem to upgrade their equipment, at least some of those are likely to be in service for years to come. And as long as a cable company still has some of their boxes with CableCards still in service, the FCC will probably make them still support retail CableCards.

Has there been any movement lately on AllVid? I really hope that if/when CableCards are phased out that the FCC can force a new standard on the entire pay TV sector that will support retail devices across cable, telco, and satellite video services.

Extremely well said... I think it would be extremely beneficial if you would post those thoughts to the record on 97-80... I will do the same. Its the only mechanism we have to at least make it known that we don't agree with the NCTA's assertion. I'm contemplating whether or not there are some other channels the consumer can use to make it clear that the NCTA is wrong.

Sam, why don't you post a White House petition. I know you could word it elegantly and state what would be best for us as consumer and then all three million TiVo user could sign it. That would get everyone's attention. Go for it, I dare you. If you do it, I will sign it.