other PWC on this board are experiencing the not having cold and bugs phenomena. I have had CFS for 22 years. Before CFS I would catch colds and everything going around. After CFS I can count on one hand the number of times I've fealt ill with a bug like a cold. In fact I think I've had three Flu's( one recently) which each brought on a relapse of sorts and I can't honestly remember having one cold. And that's in over 2 decades. Maybe it's not as much social contact but I still work so even though I have very little social life I do have contact with the outside world.

I always find that if I reiterate it to myself and others that it sticks alot better. We remember 15% of what we read but 90% of what we teach, kinda thing.

So as per Dr. Kerr and others gene studies we know that this specific gene is turned off in ME patients. Sense we had normal function before we began express ME symptoms then this is a case of epigenetics turn this particular gene off.

T,B and NK cells are all part of the white blood cells that function as our immune system. Once this gene is turned off then we can no longer replenish our NK or natural killer cells as fast as normal. Mother nature in her infinite wisdom however provides back up systems to keep us going in the event of a Retroviral attack. So the T cells now kick in to pick up what the NK cells, can no longer do, due to low numbers.

The secondary system of T1 and T2 however have the problem of creating a chemical imbalance that effects the HPA system, in effect dis-regulating the hormones that regulate many of the bodies other functions via signals from the pituitary gland et al. So we get gut problems and problems with pancreatic function and other glands.

So the bugs come in but they don't get out. Hence the frequent sore throats and swollen lymph glands that are criteria for ME. The system is on the job 24/7 without a rest. That could explain the constant fatigue. Plus dysregulation of the hormones for creating energy.

True that Rich is a very smart man but you got the lid off of the peanut butter jar for me!

Thanks millions

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Gerwyn and George,

Thank you for explaining what has had me puzzled for the last 30 years.

You are better than my Professor of Immunology, who confessed that he didn't know why this was a common observation in his patients.

I was the sickly kid with the perpetual cold/swollen tonsills/sore throat/red, raw nose...was absent from school for the majority of first grade. I was the sick teenager - ALL the time...colds of course.

I was ALWAYS sick as a young adult....the one that sat up in bed for weeks with kleenex sticking out of both nostrils.....chronic Laryngitis....would lose my voice for days. Most of the time I looked like a Nyquil commercial...BEFORE the Nyquil!

BUT....after me/cfs hit full force - NO more colds! Not a single one in 15 years! How could this be? Now I know!

(And George...forget the Peanut Butter - ask her to make you some 'sketti!)

This is really fascinating. I started off by being ill continually, infection after virus, after infection but now I hardly catch a thing. I had a very bad flu 18 months ago and a few colds but considering I avoided the norovirus when I was living with someone with it and every sickness bug my niece brought home I've been doing alright. Though I think I have the virus my husband has just been through I've had a good old run. It's not perfect but I should be sicker. Now if I could just shake of this ME I'd be as right as rain

This "never sick with colds or flu" is very common in autism too. Many kids are never sick, and a small minority are sick all the time.

I was wondering if this could also be down to "superinfection exclusion", at least in some cases - where one pathogen takes up residence and no other virus is able to enter the cell. This is well known to happen, but (my) one big issue with this theory is that the supposed original pathogen (say xmrv) would in that case have to be residing in all tissue that common cold and flu viruses would normally go for: lung, sinuses etc.

Is something like this a plausible scenario? Any thoughts Gerwyn or anyone?

"...It is well known that certain persistent viral infections can confer resistance to subsequent infection of host cells with the same virus or a closely related virus. This phenomenon, designated superinfection exclusion or homologous interference (1, 20), has been described for retroviruses (5, 9), hepatitis B virus (6),
alphaviruses (1, 20), Rift valley fever virus (3), and pestiviruses (23). Superinfection exclusion by retroviruses is primarily due to down-regulation of host cell surface entry receptors (5, 9). A similar mechanism may account for superinfection exclusion in hepatitis B virus-infected duck hepatocytes (6). Poorly defined mechanisms seem to contribute to superinfection exclusion of alphaviruses; one of these is posttranscriptional gene silencing (2). RNA silencing also seems to play a role in the case of Rift valley fever virus, because superinfection exclusion in insect cells could be mimicked by expression of nontranslatable viral RNAs (3)...." http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articlerender.cgi?artid=255659

although it is said that "Cells expressing specific proviruses are resistant to superinfection by viruses of the same subgroup" - since the mechanisms of surface receptor downregulation seem to be involved I wonder if in theory a superinfection could block entry of many unrelated viruses that use same/linked receptors?

Would it be possible to move this particular part of the discussion to its own thread? I am so happy to see this particular mystery discussed in such an intelligent way and would hate for any to miss it!

This "never sick with colds or flu" is very common in autism too. Many kids are never sick, and a small minority are sick all the time.

I was wondering if this could also be down to "superinfection exclusion", at least in some cases - where one pathogen takes up residence and no other virus is able to enter the cell. This is well known to happen, but (my) one big issue with this theory is that the supposed original pathogen (say xmrv) would in that case have to be residing in all tissue that common cold and flu viruses would normally go for: lung, sinuses etc.

Is something like this a plausible scenario? Any thoughts Gerwyn or anyone?

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I think it could play a part there are however a number of unrelated pathogens who produce very much the same symptoms cocksakie rhinoviruses and so on----I can see that a cell expressing a receptor for say XMRV may not allow another gammaretrovirus I,m not sure that explains the virtual absence of all infections.Inflammation of the lungs sinuses and so on are primarily caused by the immune systems reactions to the virus rather than the virus itself.I can see a shift in t1 to t2 in autism as I believe that the theory of mitochondrial dysfunction aplies here to particulary with regard to initial damage to the immune system.I am actually reading a paper on this at the moment---or trying to!I don,t in balance feel that the presence of xmrv could keep out flu viruses and so on .As you say XMRV would have to be virtually omnipresent.

Would it be possible to move this particular part of the discussion to its own thread? I am so happy to see this particular mystery discussed in such an intelligent way and would hate for any to miss it!

CFS/ME'rs actually have a lot of viruses that build up in their system over time. Which is one of the markers of a true CFS/ME patient right? In fact the jury is still out on whether XMRV is cause or just one of the multitudes. (grin) But in general while we feel really crappy all of the time we don't get the type of immune response that we did pre-CFS/ME.

So viruses, including Rhino (cold) and Para (flu) as well as some of the more exotics (Parvo) get in but they don't create the response that they would have before, no fever at least. Because we already have the sore throat, swollen lymph glands, achy muscles, shortness of breath at the least exertion that we would notice if we didn't have CFS/ME.

The T2 (up regulated) and B cells are in over drive 24/7 dealing with whatever the down regulated T1 cells have let in to play.

The question about the pervasiveness of the virus in our systems got me to thinking about the XPR1 receptor. There was a paper out about it here in pub med which was a bit of a slog but Dr. Mikovitz responded in one of her lectures that the XPR1 receptor is non specific that that means it can bind to any cell. But I don't think that means that it's all pervasive. I think there is more to this little bit of RNA than just the ability to get into any cell.

The important question would be what is the tissue reservoir, which they are working on right now. If it turns out to be the lymph system that would explain why it runs the immune system and would connect it directly to the sinus and lung tissue via the lymph nodes but it would also explain the higher rates of lymphoma in CFS/ME patients.

It's the opposite with me. Since I became ill catch every bug going & how - my teacher husband brings them home & he is a bit poorly with them, but I am laid low for weeks even with 'just' a cold. These viruses etc send my muscle and joint pain levels rocketing. Each one etc. I catch leaves me more ill than before, it seems to become 'part' of my M.E./fibro.

One of my problems is that when I do manage to get out in the wheelchair I'm sitting at the right level for people to sneeze and cough on me.

I rarely ever catch a cold or a flu. The last flu I had was in 96. Cannot remember the last cold I ever had. If I ever get exposed, I throw it off in a day or two. The only thing that got me in all this time was Swine Flu. The Swine Flu enters the lungs differently from regular flues. And it has done a nasty number on me. I still have lingering symptoms from it that I can't shake.

I think this disease protects the top part of the lungs and that's why we don't get regular flues. But when you get something like Swine Flu that gets in differently, we have no defense against that.

Everything else over the years was due to CFIDS/ME. It has attacked every organ system in my body.

I'm relieved to see others do not get colds, flus, etc. I use to get multiple colds and sinus infections per year but since I got sick with CFS/ME four years ago I have not had them at all! I've pondered this for so long and was worried that this absence of frequent infections and sicknesses excluded me from a CFS/ME diagnosis. Lately everyone around me at work and home seemed to have H1N1, the flu or an awful cold. I almost supernaturally seem to avoid what everyone around me gets. Someone recently said to me 'you must have have an immune system of steel!'. Ofcourse I was thinking I'd gladly trade a couple colds a year for this constant misery.