Comment Of The Week: The Subtle Art Of The AMOG

Also on a psychological side note, as a guy who’s been shot down in front of his buddies much worse a ton and watched the alphas REPEATEDLY telling the stories to anyone who will listen because they know certain stories legitimately embarrassed me and that it would get to me and throw me off and ruin my night (what assholes, right? Keep reading lol…):

The reason you took it personally is that your Ego (the Freudian one, tho I’m shitting all over his actual definitions just to make the point faster lol) took itself too seriously. It built up an Identity of “I’m a gentleman who respects women and would never be one of those creepy horny bar guys who wants to get in a girls pants!” and she and he both dug the needle right into that nerve on you, so you reacted terrified, embarrassed, angry, frustrated, humiliated, etc and instinctively your Ego tried to defend itself and keep that Identity together.

Every time your friend repeated tha story, it was like another little “see this guy’s Identity he’s so proud of and has tried to project to you all? It’s a LIE, he’s a horny little creeper!!!” and brings those feelings back.

The same thing was happening to me when I was a few years into pickup and fancied myself an expert with women. My Ego built up the Identity of “I’m someone who’s good with women” so every time they told the stories, especially to other alpha males and women I was attracted to, it was like another needle jabbing that “he’s not REALLY good with girls lol” nerve that only existed because I was a prisoner of my own Ego.

Consider it a lesson in humility they’re sub-consciously trying to teach you about not taking either yourself and/or picking up girls so seriously, and being able to laugh at yourself.

Your friend wasn’t necessarily a dick…you were just trapped in an Identity that you took too seriously. In the end its worked out for you at least, so in a way it’s good that I happened, but I know you felt like shit at the time…in my AFC days I actually did the accidental/misunderstanding creepy-follow once too, to a social circle girl during the daytime no less lol.

Now when my friends bring up the stories that used to frustrate and embarrass me and ruin my night, I just laugh them off and go “ya it was brutal. I suck with girls, no wonder I’m still a virgin. ” and it doesn’t phase me at all because I’m no longer trapped by that Identity.

Just wanted to explain this dynamic because of all the “your friend is a douchebag who doesn’t respect bros before hos” responses…technically, your friendship ended because at that point in your life you hadn’t grown an internal frame strong enough to not put your worth into the Identity your Ego created.

Also this concept is part of how I hold my own in the high-end clubs with jacked ripped 6-pack tall rich expensive suit wearing AMOGs. I know they’ve spent and spend so much of their life constructing their outward Identity/appearance of being a rich successful guy who’s good with women etc, and are trapped by their Ego into taking that Identity too seriously, so all I have to do to shake their frame/confidence is poke them with one little niggling doubt about themselves, like not being impressed about the thing they’re trying to impress myself and/or the girls with, or downplaying what they’re proud of to the girls so the girls stop valuing it as well.

ie – something like “wow man you’re ripped that awesome. You must spend all day in the gym hey, you must be going for a 2am workout after the bar tonight to stay that jacked lol I wish I had that kind of dedication but I’m a lazy fuck (pat my belly and make the girls rub it). I love good food too much, I have to get a steak when I’m at a restaraunt, I’d be embarrassed to order a salad lol you got way more balls than me man”. So in that bit, I’ve made him look like a salad ordering gym nut, and self-depreciated to contrast how I don’t take myself seriously (aka I’m more confident), AND I did it in a way where I’m actually complimenting him so he can’t even get mad at me…he’s stuck in Check wondering why the girls are patting my belly going “noooo I like your belly its cute!!” when I technically just told them how much better than me he is so logically they should want him more lol.

So there I’ve removed the value from one of the pillars he’s built his Identity around, in both my eyes and the girls’ eyes, and his Ego reacts butthurt (even if he doesn’t lash out at me, which he can’t because I complimented him, his state drops) and he loses the girls to me.

Sometimes if he’s frustrated enough he’ll try to tool me on my looks or money etc, something he puts value on so he thinks I’ll put value on, but 1) he’s just reacting to me at that point so he sabotages himself further in the girls’ eyes because the higher value person is the one who reacts less to the other person, and 2) I don’t build my self-worth around those external things so I’m not phased by it and will join in making fun of myself and be self-depreciating because I know my worth internally and know it has nothing to do with whatever he’s making fun of…the end result is if he does this, he takes himself from Check with the girls and puts himself in Check-mate and it’s over.

(if he’s a nice dude, I’ll back off and build his value up again for him and try to take the girls together and make a new buddy, but if he’s a dick I’ll just walk the girls away from him…they’ll follow me because I have all the high-value at that point)

This is the subtle art of the AMOG.

The kind of male buddies who turn AMOG on you are usually the friends who have insecurities about their own pick-up prowess.

***

Runner-up winner Dirkjohanson writes,

To be fair, sometimes women flake because of things like gas, vaginosis, and diarrhea.

Yes, but does a girl with vaginosis flake on her corporate HR drone job? No, for that she shows up right on time, because the job pushing paper is more interesting than the beta pushing for a date.

To be fair, sometimes women flake because of things like gas, vaginosis, and diarrhea.

Yes, but does a girl with vaginosis flake on her corporate HR drone job? No, for that she shows up right on time, because the job pushing paper is more interesting than the beta pushing for a date.”

but what if eher jobz her jobz is pushing cockas in and out of her mouth, butt , and gina holez zlzo as sshe wors in da porn indsustdudry? i know, i know, many womenz in teh corproatetrtee world rise by pucshisng cocksz in and out of her mouth, butt , and gina holez zlzo on the corrprate ladderz on da waysz upz, and filing a sexual harrassmentz lawsuit against any beta manager who says “noice shoes” lzozozozozo.

dis is da age we live in. work in da pron indudstry and you acand buttcockesz woemnz buttcockensz womenz, but work in a midwest office, and if you say “nice shirt,” you can be fired and have your assetz seized while had you only worked in da porn iunsdyrty, you coudl have sezied hger ass insstead of having your asetz seeezed seized lzozzoozozozozoz.

anywho bakc when i worked as a baristaz, one day the HR manager called da GBFM down to her officez and said, “your playboy and pentohouse mahgaizned magazinesz are not suitable ofor work!!!they are NSFW! lzozooz”

so da GBFM says, “do you and me have a 401K here which invests in the vanguard index fund?”

and she says “YES SO WHAT?”

so da GBFM goes, “well in dat index fundsz are all the banks who process the credit card transactionsz for anal anal anl bukkakkek bukkakke gangbang ganbgaanabangzlzlzoz pornb pron, so as you are profiting off hardcore porn at work, is dat why you say dat playboy and penthouse are NSFW not suitable for work because they are not HARD CORE enough? well i was going to bring in a LOTSAS COCKAS TINY BUTTZ TINY asiana AHOLES magazine butt the barnes and beoennobelssz was fresh outta them but i wil try 2 get one for work here!”

well, sad sad story da GBFM was soon fired on trumped up charaes of hgiving a hotties my lostsas occkas in da restroom afetr hours but it wasn’t me on dat security videotataes!

but it is no buig deal being suhut outta da baristsa worldzsz, as now as many of you know this fall da GBFM will be a UNIEVERIETY PROFESSORSZ teaching post strufftuarela lingua lango langueagesez at a univeristy/student-debt hedge fund lzozozzozolzozoz omhzg zlzoz.

da MILEY SYRCUSZ is trianing da new genertaionz to slutt it uppz to all us alpahsaz!! so forget what da fmeinists teahcing teahceesz you bout tretaing a owmenz zlzolzooz grab d amiley scyyruss bunghoelzozloz!

To my homegirls here with the big butt
Shaking it like we at a strip club
Remember only God can judge ya
Forget the haters, cause somebody loves ya
And everyone in line in the bathroom
Trying to get a line in the bathroom
We all so turnt up here
Getting turnt up yea yea

it’s MY PARTY AND I’LL DO WHAT I WNATZ TO!!! lzozozozozozo
z
zlzozolzlzozzolozoz

To my homegirls here with the big butt
Shaking it like we at a strip club
Remember only God can judge ya
Forget the haters, cause somebody loves ya
And everyone in line in the bathroom
Trying to get a line in the bathroom
We all so turnt up here
Getting turnt up yea yea

WHEN YOU LET WOMEN INTO THE EXALTED RELAMS OF PHYSICS AND CHURCHES–SCIENCE AND GOD–IT ULTIMATELY RESULTS IN TWERKING, AS EXALTED SCIENCE AND GOD ARE REDUCED TO BUTT TWERKING AND GINA AND BUTT TNGLEOEOZ TWERK TWERK TWERK ZZLZOzolzzoz:

i da GBFM have volunteered for the SEXUAL HARRASSMENT committee so i can hear all da good storiesz of womenz getting alpha fucksz and then suing betas with sexaula harrassment lawusits to get beta bucks zlzoozzoz

I once showed up for a date– Coffee in the AM– to pick up some hot 19 yo. She didn’t come to the door. Knocked, doorbell, waited for a few minutes, left. She called me 30 minutes later, claiming she overslept. I explained solidly the exact point above–that if she’d been having a job interview, she would have been ready with bells on 10 min early, and I wasn’t going to put up with it.

Tingles. She told me a year later that was the first time anyone had given her any (paraphrased) sternness or grief about being late and flaky.

Dirks comment on women not flaking on work for specific female medical issues may be accurate in the US but it is not here. Women in the UK take a load of sick time and play the women’s trouble card whenever they fancy a day off. A lot of employers that are in the know about this refuse to employ them for these reasons but of course they would never say so.

Example: “Hey, can’t make it tonight, I’ve got cramps so bad they’re doubling me over and I’ve had to change my tampon four times this morning already, seriously, it’s like that scene in ‘The Shining’ when the elevator doors open. I’m stuck in my oldest, ugliest granny-panties for the next couple of days because there’s no way I’m risking my nice Victoria’s Secret lace-back thong to this deluge. But you still think I’m sexy, right? So let’s reschedule for Sunday!”).

or: “Hey, I bet you didn’t know this about girls, but we can get urinary tract infections just from wearing pants that are too tight or sitting around in a wet bathing suit for an hour too long…and I’m living proof! Right now it feels like I’m pissing razor blades and I’m gunning cranberry juice like it’s my job. Probably going to have to hit the old GYN up for some antibiotics, which are going to screw up my birth control pills, so even if I’m feeling better by tonight you’re still going to have to glove up. But you still think I’m sexy, right? So let’s reschedule for Sunday!”)

I mean, that’s not really information you need in your head, is it? Wouldn’t you rather just hear, “So sorry, but I’m just a little under the weather right now and I don’t think I’d be very good company. Can we reschedule for Sunday?”

I move that my comments be struck from the record due to an IPad malfunction rendering them incoherent and irrelevant I would like to close by entering a plea of clown mask rape, lolzlolzlolzlolzlolzlolzomglolz.

I realise Dirk was saying that it is just used as an excuse to blow off an unwanted pick up attempt. For some reason this posted before I was finished and the point I was about to make has gone astray.

Girl i’m seeing is pissed with me. her crazy hoarder mother wants to move out of her own home and into the girl’s apartment. I asked why they don’t want to clean the place up but crazy lady wants daughters apartment.

Now this girl at time refuses to stay with me because she’s working. Or i’m working.

So she texts and says “its ok if you say not but my mom is going to live in my apartment for 6 weeks. Can I stay at yours?

Me: A few days is o, but not 6 weeks. I come and go at all hours.

Since then she’s been a total bitch to me.

She showed up at a party i had helped organize at venue I will use for a big event in September.

She told me it looks cheap and isn’t up to the artists’ level.

Then she sulked.

Then she left early without saying goodby and made a production out of leaving early.

Me: Goodbye, walked over to finish my chat with my mates.

Do I contact her and confront on tthis nonsense?

Do I freeze her out?

What would a game move be for a girl who’s passive aggressively passing on their anger against their other onto me? Then crapping over my idea instead of making suggestions to spruce up the decor.

She didn’t get her way, so she’s acting out. How old is she? This type of behavior isn’t uncommon for women under 25, but that doesn’t mean you have to tolerate it. The younger hotter ones are used to an entourage of beta boyz and other orbiters doing anything to appease them. So basically its a test of your alpha cred. If you cave, you’re a pussy and she knows she can walk all over you in the future and display other bad behaviors. I think your response of offering a few days but not 6 weeks was solid.

If she’s over 25 and especially if she’s over 30, just ignore the shit out of her.

but den i brought it doewnwe down to earth ofr da common mans by trnalasating it into engleisshsis zlzlzoz

as you can see chicnese china is still a backwards country and launagauges because dey have no characters for BUTTHEXTING COKAS LZOZLZOZZ” as dey don’t have a federal resevr e i guess lzozozoz

“da professional womenz ode”

SPECIAL WEDDING EDITION

alpha fucks and beta bucks
dat is how we roll
da butthexting cockass we fucks and sucks
and in our anuthes it doth deosul
alpha fucks and beta bucks
it is da way of da fed
to transfer assetss to dose who butthext
cuckold dose who pay for our bread
beta bucks and alpha fucks
it’s what day teach us we;’re entitled too
da assetts from betas we plucks
after da alphas desol us through our hole for poo
lzozozlzzolzlzlzlz

SPECIAL EDITION WEDDING CHORUS lzozozozo

i gave it 4 free when i was younger hotter tighter
back in college when i was thirty pounds lighter
can’t hardly wait to butthext yyou in divorce court
and have you fund my favorite buttehxtual sport
gonna buy sexy lingerie with all dat alimonee
fuck & suck alpha cocks as ur beta cock is just 4 pee
tee hee hee teee heee heee l
tee hee hee teee heee heee !
i’m da modern liberated womanz
i buttehxt before and after marriage
and during it too, but not with you
but with the father of da baby in da carriage
lzozozzlozoz

cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas
datsz what day taught us in mba grad school
as da feiisnsits see no truth nor justice in their laws
and say da great books for menz was all fools.
yes, yes, i did very good on my gmats
dey bernenakifed my soul away, left me with cats

Serious question, though: Why the hell would you wanna hang out with chicks like this?

Are you in a Deep Blue State – are there no nice girls from good families in your neck of the woods?

I suppose you could have a little sit-down with her – the dreaded Talk itself – something like, “Honey, you’re a helluva gal on your good days, but holy cow, there’s a lotta darkness in your family, and on your bad days, it follows you around like a god-damned storm cloud over your head.”

And then see where that leads.

On the other hand, though, I’ve never had a “sit-down” with a chick that did a damned bit of good.

But who knows – maybe you’re better at “sit-downs” than I am.

PS: Just as ancient Frat-Boy wisdom says that, dollars-to-donuts, a chick will tend to gravitate towards her mother’s weight [if her Mom is skinny, then likely she’ll stay skinny; if her Mom is fat, then likely she’ll become fat], so too ancient Frat-Boy wisdom says [or at least it ought to say] that a chick will tend to gravitate towards her Mom’s mental state.

If her Mom is nuts, then, in all likelihood, she’s headed for exactly the same fate.

To borrow from GBFM, there’s a reason that the ancients urged their boys to seek out girls from good families [always “marry up”].

I.e. Charles Darwin wasn’t the first person to notice that these kindsa problems tend to find their roots in the blood.

If she was indifferent and wasn’t acting out, then she would not care about you at all.

The fact that she’s acting this way is a strong indicator that she really likes you. That tells me you have more of the upper-hand here in the relationship.

I guarantee that if you act aloof, distant, and do not contact her, then she will come back to you.

This is one of those situs where you need to act like the oak-tree, unmoved by the violent gusts of wind. Act like the rock in the water, unshakeable despite the waves crashing upon it. You get the idea.

This happened to me, and the best thing to do is to pull-back because she will be back. It helps if you’re her only source of really great sex; that always serves as a catalyst for the girl to come back.

Don’t overgame, don’t think of witty texts or conversations to have to just let the “air out”. Let her come back to you (and she will), and she’ll probably make up some stuff how she was on her period at the time and with all the hormones she gets a little crazy and “blah blah blah.”

You may have to have a discussion in the near-future about expectations regarding the relationship. If you’ve been upfront and displaying qualities of a guy who doesn’t desire long-term monogamy then you should be fine.

If you haven’t, it’s not insurmountable to get yourself into that good spot.
But either way, sometimes you win, and sometimes you learn.

ah yes, the temper tantrum….a common tactic amongt 6-year old children and women of all ages.

who is she to you? was she involved with this party you organized as well? because if not, why would you expect her to give you constructive criticism?

do not let her move in.

make no mistake – this is a power play. she wants you to acquiesce. first it’s a couple of days, then it becomes several weeks, and weeks become months. she’ll find/make up excuses to stay longer…would you be able to kick her out once she’s all nested in?

don’t initiate contact. when she contacts you, you can either ignore what happened or if you want to you can say something like ‘you done with your tantrum yet?’ or ‘finished bleeding?’, depending on how you want to play it. i personally would take the jab, to remind her that i’m well aware she was behaving like a bratty little girl, but in a tone of voice that also conveys that there will be no further discussion on the matter.

situations like these are what hotels/girlfriends/beta orbiters are for. are you any of these things?

she’strying to get you mad sothat she can get hand. oldest chick trick in the book. you get mad do something stupid and have to atone for it when she was being a bitch. don’t ever let a chick live with you. if mommy is a hoarder its bad bad news.

Then you need to either man-up, and start putting buns in her oven, or else you need to cut the umbilical cord NOW and let her find a real man to be her mate.

It’s one thing to fuck around purposelessly with a bitch when she’s “a bit over 20” and has a couple of decades of fertility left, but fucking around purposelessly with bitches when they’re “a bit over 30” isn’t merely cruel – it’s a perfect recipe for driving the white race straight into extinction.

So either man-up, or else move aside, and let a real man step up to the plate.

This sounds suspiciously like a variation on “Man up and marry those sluts”, only in this case it is “Man up and impregnate those sluts”.

I would argue that an unmarried, childless hamster over 30 is ONLY fit for fucking around purposelessly. Sure, the white race is in danger, but you can’t expect men to make irrational life decisions to suit your agenda.

You let a lot of shitty behavior go on for too long, so you might have to get tougher and when she comes back from a Soft Next, tell her flat out “I know you’re in a shitty situation right now, but don’t take it out on me. I won’t have that shit in my life.” and if she keeps bringing it, Soft Next again.

You can Soft Next multiple times, as many times as is necessary to snuff out the bad behavior…if it’s not being snuffed out then ultimately a Hard Next might be necessary (ie – ditch her completely…a Soft Next is temporary punishment). You may ultimately lose her if she’s in her 30s because she may want to find a husband to have kids with soon and is partly venting that frustration on you, so be prepared for that and if she goes, she goes, wish her the best and hope she finds someone who’ll provide her with that if you’re not willing to.

Ultimately though, she’s acting this way because you’re letting her act this way by not punishing it.

Good stuff and ya it’s exactly like you’re reading it. The Bye is classic.

The good side is that this is easy/predictable to handle. The downside is this means you have a girl who loves and gets off on drama…in the longterm you’ll want to decide how much drama is too much for you.

With girls in this mood attacking me I’ll turn it around and go over the top on them:

her: “you think you know everything”
me: “all you do is criticize me”
“I do not you’re the one who blah blah”
“No you know what I’m getting sick of this shit. You always make me feel guilty for hanging with my friends”
“I do not, fuck you”
“No fuck YOU. I’m tired of this shit. If you want some lame fucker you can push around then find someone else”
“Fine. Bye” (but here I’m leading her on a rollercoaster so I won’t let it go at Bye, I’ll just keep making drama by picking a hot button for her)
“Every time I’m out you txt me shit trying to start drama with me and ruin my night. Like god forbid I actually have a fun night out with my buddies. You’re so fucking high maintenance”
“Fuck you I am not!! I just blah blah” (and now she’s roped back in)

Then after a while of this when emotions are running high ill switch gears into nice/sweet stuff like:

“Whatever. You do it on purpose and it fucks with my night and makes me bitch to my friends about you and I hate that because I don’t want to be the guy complaining about his girl when I’m out I want to be the guy who’s bragging about her”
“Well you just make me feel like blah”
“Oh so only your feelings matter. I see. Fuck what I want.”
“No that’s not it you just blah”
“I just wish you’d txt me sweet thing when I’m out instead of bitchy shit. I LIKE when you txt me but not when you’re being a bitch.”
“I’m not a bitch!!”
“Whatever. Fuck this I’m done talking tonight. Later.” (now I’m pulling the “bye” move on her lol)

Then the next day she’ll usually txt something innocent and I’ll act like the whole thing didnt happen. Or I’ll txt her in a few days with something innocent etc.

Now this is all shitty and assholish and drama. And quite frankly it’s the same style abusive men/women use on their partners to break them down but keep them coming back for more. So it’s shitty to even have to use it.

BUT…when you’re with a girl who’s exhibiting signs that she loves/needs drama, NOT providing drama like this now and then will actually turn her OFF and she’ll leave you for some abusive asshole who WILL give her the drama she needs lol. Like she’s shown you her blueprint and it’s up to you if you want to get involved in drama like this…some girls just need it once to know your capable of it, some need it every damn week.

Why do you think housewives watch soap operas? That’s how they get their drama fix so their hubby can be a nice bland guy, they’ve already “exercised” their emotions being pissed happy and crying over their soaps earlier in the day.

Try starting some drama with her in this situ. Just for the experience. Just remember to turn it around on her, then amplify it and go waaaaay over the top with it, then transition back into saying sweet things and how you hate being like that etc and then use a Bye to cut it off and see what happens in a few days.

Personally I hate drama so I try to screen the high drama ones out, but often they’re the really hot ones cause people have allowed them to be drama all their lives lol

One final update to this. Break up text to follow. I had a brief text exchange with my girl this morning:

“Rain splashed on the window work me up. made me think of…

She replied “our breakfasts”

There was some banter.

Then someone in my social circle said she’d posted something in Chinese that we’d broken up and people were gossiping about it.

I was surprised. So I texted to see if this was true and to be honest.

She replied—immediately again saying “I love you but we are too different…..I don’t want to but I have to. Too hard feelings.
“When I needed help (NOTE: SHE HAD ASKED ME TO IF SHE COULD STAY AT MY PLACE FOR 6 WEEKS. I SAID A FEW DAYS OK BUT NOT 6 WEEKS) you disappeared and when I worked you blamed me. I need someone to share happiness and the sadness”.

I read it that this was clearly a power grab, I had somehow lost rapport by being too alpha (mentioning my soft-nexts)

Weird, she didn’t tell me this face to face, she kind of posted it on Facebook and told her friends. Lame.

I waited a few hours to this. THought what I would say…then finally replied with:

“k. adios”

Seemed to convey a fuck you attitude without the bitterness. The adios made it even more enigmatic. No back-pedaling, no apologizing, no “remember our great times”. After that text speech….just “k. adios”

Man some times people need to be jacked.
As a swimmer and also being in the University team I pretty much get this attack from many guys. They should really think before using it there’s more in life than girls and bullshitting you with your hobbies is really a bad idea.
But thankfully after sometime I learned how to use their song to my favor. Their Grey whale song.

It sounds like you are reactive when guys come at you for your swimmers physique. This misses the point of the post, which says that if you attach your identity to something, it makes it easier for others to influence your internal state.

Example:

Imagine a guy who prides himself on having a one-bedroom apartment in the west village (NYC). That’s his source of his strong identity. He thinks he’s the shit because none of his other friends have their own crib in the WV. All it could take to throw this guy out of state is one snarky/snide/sarastic/funny comment about his living situation.

Me: West Village? Never heard of it. Isn’t that near the ghetto (smirk)
Lameguy: (Starts qualifying himself)(Doesn’t matter what he says)(His body language betrays him here)
Me: Hey it’s cool man, you don’t have to qualify yourself. We’re just messing with you the West Village is a dope spot.

Same principal at play here. How cool is this lameguy if he allows someone to fuck up his internal state with an obviously sarcastic comment that compares his neighborhood to the Bronx?

“It sounds like you are reactive when guys come at you for your swimmers physique. This misses the point of the post, which says that if you attach your identity to something, it makes it easier for others to influence your internal state.”

You’re in the wrong headspace from the start. You’re thinking like “no but you guys don’t understand, THIS situation is DIFFERENT.” It’s not, it’s just more relevant to you so you feel like it is.

Because you can’t choose the people around you 24/7. Sometimes you’re forced to deal with dipshits, whether it’s at school, work, in your social circle (your best buddy’s douchey friend, etc.), at the bar, in your swimming hobby, etc.

You can keep shitty people from being a part of your very close inner-circle, but you can’t avoid interacting with retards 24/7, ESPECIALLY if you’re working on becoming more social or learning to approach women.

Excellent post. Is that confidence you project merely a veneer or something you have regardless of circumstance? Is alpha a state or an attitude? Is it “I’m an alpha. [period]”, or “I’m an alpha (only) because…”.

Fake it till you make it. At first it’s bullshit, but over time with enough reference experience you realize that your worth really is internally based and you can change what it’s based on arbitrarily.

Like “man, look at my black shirt, this is the best black shirt in the world, fuck I’m awesome.” or if it’s a shitty shirt “man, look at this shitty black shirt, on ME it looks amazing, I make everything look amazing, fuck I’m awesome.” lol If someone takes your shirt away, “man, I don’t even NEED that shirt, look at my belly, that’s a man’s belly right there, I didn’t get that from eating salads like a homo, chicks love this belly it means I can protect them with my bulk like a boss”.

A lot of this comes down to frame control and building a strong frame until it’s strong enough that other people can’t fuck with it. This spills into a lot of other areas of success in pickup.

Reframing is key, which is what YaReally did, packaged in the form of a compliment. It’s rare in that case that you’ll come across an AMOG like that who has the ability to reframe what YaReally said back at him.

It’s the concept of the big scary guy who gets his ass kicked in a fight by a little guy because no one’s ever attacked him before so he didn’t know what to do.

These guys don’t expect anyone to flip the frame on them like that, so they struggle and can’t recover. *I* could recover, because guys have tried to fuck with me a ton over my journey of going from hermit recluse to social butterfly. It’s like coming in with a counter-punch, if someone is used to that they can counter your counter and that can go back and forth for a while till someone slips up. But if you’ve never run into a counter-puncher you’re like “wtf was that?!” and swing wildly out of confusion/frustration and get counter-punched again and next thing you know you’re laying on the ground looking at the stars lol

The problem is most guys put value on money, looks, etc. and believe women do, so when these guys approach their girls, they just GIVE them the girls. It’s retarded and self-defeatest. They go “well this guy is 6’4 and rich, so of course she’ll like him instead of me :(” and get inside their heads and don’t hold the frame and back into the shadows and LET this other guy, who probably didn’t even have any game, HAVE the girl.

Then they, and 10 other insecure guys who watched that go down, go online and go “YEP. Confirmed! Women like height and money, I saw this tall guy steal the girl from this short average guy, so now I can hide in my victim Identity instead of doing the hard work of building my internal sense of value…now I have a justification for all my shortcomings so I don’t have to work!!”

If you’re getting AMOG’ed, or do the AMOGing, then you are completely lost. If you write multi-paragraphed treatments of how to live a life with AMOGs, you are most definitely doing it wrong. I have never been, nor ever been on the receiving end of, this fictional AMOG of which you speak. What reality are you living in? If you’re experiencing AMOGs, it’s because you’re putting forth that energy in your life. That energy is what you need to address, not the “AMOG.” Grow up.

Okay, for the noobs: this whole AMOG thing is a boogey man intended to keep you in the corral. AMOGs only exist for losers with over-active imaginations. Are other men competing with you for the genetically sound eggs of our species? Yes, they are. Does that make them AMOGs? No, it doesn’t. They are normal men living their lives, of which procuring genetically fit eggs is a part.

To elevate them to AMOG status is essentially a D&D self jerk. And to try to get other men to believe in the fiction of AMOGs to make you feel better about yourself, is just fucking low. [There’s a boogey man behind every corner, so follow me for your safety.]

“If you’re getting AMOG’ed, or do the AMOGing, then you are completely lost.”

No shit. This stuff is for guys who are learning game. The guys who are going out and are running into AMOGs and getting tooled BECAUSE they are lost and guys can tell they can fuck with them, because they don’t have the solid internals where guys don’t mess with them.

When you train in martial arts, guys stop fucking with you physically because you carry yourself better and look like you’re not a guy to fuck with, so they pick on the scrawny nerd beside you and stuff him in a locker, because they know they can fuck with him.

This advice is for the scrawny nerd. The guy who can handle himself doesn’t get fucked with as much, but if he does, he knows how to throw a punch.

It’s important to note that no matter what you do, you will never be able to completely deter every idiot out there. Especially when the booze flows freely. I was a college football player and so were the rest of my buddies I go out with. Every once in a while some drunk idiot (or even rarer, a group) will get all worked up and try to start trouble with the big guy(s) to look cool or whatever. And we usually just laugh it off and walk away. Yeah I know, “super totally non-Alpha broski,” but whatever, better than going to jail for beating someone up who’s half your size. Besides, often times the group is grateful that you didn’t stir up an unnecessary confrontation and buzzkill an otherwise fun night out. Comic relief bonus points if the other guy is actually half your size.

Yep. I walk away from TONS of interactions that could go bad if I had a chip on my shoulder about looking manly to others. I just don’t care.

There’s a really awkward CK Louis video from his TV show where he’s on a date with a girl and a young jock douche comes over and threatens him and he has to decide whether to get into a fight with the kid to save face or back down. And he knows he can’t win the fight, he’s an old man and the kid is psycho and he’s like “I’m not going to fight you, I have 2 kids at home to take care of, that’s ridiculous” and the guy makes him apologize and act like a bitch to avoid getting beat up.

In the end he doesn’t get beat up, and he loses the girl…but he can go home to take care of his kids and provide for them, instead of being dead or in the hospital or jail.

Was he “alpha”? Who the fuck cares. He made the smart choice even if guys like King would’ve made fun of him for it and called him a coward.

“Besides, often times the group is grateful that you didn’t stir up an unnecessary confrontation and buzzkill an otherwise fun night out.”

Nothing wrong with walking away. The whole badass ass-kicker thing is great when you’re young and healthy and don’t have kids to look after or anything and the guys you’re up against are guys you have a chance with.

Learning to handle other guys with social skills and calm situations down is something that will come in handy when you’re past your prime and you have people who are affected by you ending up in jail or the hospital, or dead, because you desperately needed to look like a “man” to save face or get the scarce pussy you’re desperate not to look lame in front of.

Right here, read this. All of you little boys who follow YaReally, read THIS. Are you ready little boys? Here, read this. From his own mouth. Who are you following?

No shit. This stuff is for guys who are learning game. The guys who are going out and are running into AMOGs and getting tooled BECAUSE they are lost and guys can tell they can fuck with them, because they don’t have the solid internals where guys don’t mess with them.

While I tend to agree philosophically with many of the things on this site, it frustrates me a bit that all the anecdotal displays of alpha tend to be of the “lolz yeah bro fuck dude whatevs” type. Can we get some more variety? I can’t imagine Charles Bronson talking like a 20 year old frat boy, and he was alpha as fuck.

The bros are the easiest to demonstrate examples for because we’ve all run into that and there are dozens of them in every bar every weekend so it’s more common. It’s rare to run into a Charles Bronson trying to take your girls so it’s not as useful for guys learning to read about that.

That said, if you learn to handle the bros, handling Charles isn’t much different. The concepts remain the same. It’s like if you’re learning to fight, there’s a point where you can take out average people with no problem, but then you run into someone else who’s a lot more experienced and more tight/precise and he might own you, but all you have to do is start tightening up your moves and figure out how to be more efficient/etc.

Generally by the time Charles types are your competition, you’ve got enough experience to figure out how to handle him pretty quick on your own.

I was at a sports bar in town that has several attractive female servers. I’ve been there a few times before, but this evening was particularly interesting because of the older drunk beta and the alpha.

There was a dude there who was a few years older than me, and had apparently had several already, because he was slurring his speech and being a loquacious but semi-nonsensical drunk. First, he was talking to the cute blonde server, asking what she wanted to hear on the jukebox, she said “anything but country”, and he said he couldn’t decide and asked her to choose. I said, “You don’t like country?” and upon her answering in the affirmative, I said, “I love country. How dare you… (grumble)” in a mock indignant voice. She cracked up, and said, “well, except for some songs!” A bit later, she casually mentioned to her coworkers who were sitting not far from me, but so that I would hear, how she would be here all next year, but would be gone for the rest of the month, except for next Tuesday.

The drunk beta talked to me for a bit (so I knew how old he was), mentioned he was “separated”, pointed out all the cute girls there, but that they were “dumb as shit.” I replied, “well, they’re girls” — they don’t seem either smarter or dumber than normal. He then went over and bothered the blonde waitress again, then a couple of girls who came into the bar; I knew one of the girls and saw they were getting annoyed with him, although they were laughing nervously a lot, so after about five minutes, went over to distract him which gave them a chance to get away. (I hate cockblockers, but in this case, he was too drunk to do anything more than make a total ass out of himself.) The bouncer had also come by and was hovering over him to make sure he wasn’t getting too fresh.

Meanwhile, with the blonde waitress, I expressed confusion about the aluminum bottles that beer are sometimes sold in, and also gave her trouble for pouring a leftover pitcher of beer down the sink, saying, “Ermagerd, you’re so lame!” in an Eric Cartman voice. She cracked up and always sounds like a little girl when she talks to me. Contrast that with the drunk dude who asked her what she wanted to hear: “Either rap or hip hop,” she replied in a completely neutral voice. When she was clearing off one table, the drunk dude went over and talked to her for about a minute, and then left the bar. She came over and talked to her coworkers in a mildly embarrassed fashion about him, although I couldn’t hear what she was saying, unlike earlier when she laid out her future plans. I had by then gotten introduced to the rest of the staff there getting them straight in my mind.

A bit later, an alpha and his attractive but skanky wife (she always shows a lot of skin) showed up; they either run or work at a different club in town. After a smoke break when I hung out with the bartender, the alpha, the bouncer, the female bartender who was there but not working that night, and her boyfriend, we went back inside. He too went up to the attractive blonde waitress and was chatting her up and telling her some crazy story. But he obviously knew how to charm girls and didn’t seem to care that his wife was nearby waiting for their drinks — or, that it was their “date night”. (One thing I should point out: the skanky wife makes eyes at me and tries to get my attention as if she finds me attractive, but that could be happening for a number of different reasons, and think nothing of it.) Not long after that, I left for a different bar.

The interesting thing about all this, of course, is observing all these interactions through the lens of what I’ve learned here.

Hitting on waitresses is hitting on strippers. The pretty ones are too battle-hardened from constant attention and flirtation to react well to direct approaches. It’s like she’s being poked and prodded all night, and you’re thinking somehow your pokey little finger is distinguishable from the others.

Same thing with skankwife. She’s so battle-hardened against her hubby’s extracurricular flirtation that she stopped fighting it and rather joined the swing lifestyle, which is why she made eyes with you.

If your target is the blonde waitress, why not play off the skankwife’s advances? There’s your indirect path to the waitress (being charmed by her husband), once the flirtation smog clears and it’s time to get down to business. It draws the attention of both blonde and alpha to your skills, requiring alpha to bring his focus back to skankwife (which is what she wanted all along), leaving the blonde potentially alone with you, the alpha’s demonstrated equal, and with a shared experience to talk about — “What’s up with those old people? I think they were trying to pick us both up for a foursome.”

“The pretty ones are too battle-hardened from constant attention and flirtation to react well to direct approaches.”

Nah, it’s do-able, and pretty consistently…but it depends on your value to her and her standard of value is a lot higher because of the sheer number of guys she meets trying to impress her.

But if you gain high-value in her eyes, it’s no biggie. Like the Denny’s manager fucking all his waitresses. But you can gain that status thru solid game/confidence/etc. I have a buddy who doesn’t have a job etc. who picks up waitresses/shooter-girls/beer-tub girls fairly often. His game is pretty complicated but it’s just something he’s been doing for a long time so it’s second nature to him. It involves working the room and building up social proof and jealousy plotlines fast.

“She’s so battle-hardened against her hubby’s extracurricular flirtation that she stopped fighting it and rather joined the swing lifestyle, which is why she made eyes with you.”

Yup. Plus there’s the social-pressure based need for validation, ie – she’s worried everyone else is staring at her getting tooled by this younger girl so she wants attention to re-enforce to herself that she’s still “got it” and deserves her man. There’s also the possibility of a jealousy thing where she wants to make him jealous, but it sounds like hubby is like this all the time so I’d agree she’s too battle-hardened for this dynamic to be at play there (ie – she wants the attention more for her own validation/self-worth than to make him jealous because she knows he won’t get jealous because she’s been with him long enough to know that).

“If your target is the blonde waitress, why not play off the skankwife’s advances? There’s your indirect path to the waitress (being charmed by her husband), once the flirtation smog clears and it’s time to get down to business.”

Yep. This would be a solid play. Skankwife would be receptive, even if she didn’t want to actually fuck you, because she’s craving attention while her hubby dicks around. He’s probably too alpha to really consider you a threat but at the least you might be able to make buddies with him and socially proof yourself. Either way it’s all good things. He’s not going to come over and punch your lights out for flirting with his wife a bit because he’s alpha and charming and that’s not how those guys react.

“and with a shared experience to talk about — “What’s up with those old people? I think they were trying to pick us both up for a foursome.””

Yep. This is setting an “us VS them” frame where you have a “conspiracy” with the girl and build a commonality of being “together” VS something else (the room, other people, the world, etc.). Oldschool MM game but solid because it works.

True. At least my pokey little finger appears semi-alpha — it’s a start. At any rate, I have a far better chance of graduating to my lotsa cockas with her than drunk beta does. My attitude is to keep multiple pokers (hot chicks) in the fire, so it doesn’t matter diddly-squat if one leaves town, as they often do.

That might be a good plan if alpha and skankwife go there again, as there’s a good chance they’re regulars. I only just started going there a few weeks ago, and the drinks are more expensive, but which fortunately leaves me less tempted to end up plastered than I would be at the cheaper place across the street, which is far less amenable to mingling than this place is, and is a young-hot-chick desert during the summer anyway.

The old creepy drunk bitter guy is what other people picture you’re doing when you say “I went out to the bar by myself.” Because that’s what THEY would do, so they picture that that’s what you’re doing. They can’t even comprehend that you could take over that bar and socialize and have fun by yourself, with or without alcohol.

That old drunk guy can’t get good because he’s blaming external things (“these girls are all stupid”) for his failures instead of looking at his own shit.

Divorce “feminism” from the “feminine” here. Feminism is the idea that all woman are people…but only if they’re able to fulfil a true “personhood” role in society. Which is male.

Intrinsic to feminism is the concept that only the male experience is the true human experience, and the traditional feminine roles in civilization are demeaning, valueless, and reduce a woman to less than nothing. Feminism isn’t about elevating the feminine, but eliminating it, and making women “equal” to men by giving them masculine roles.

They aren’t trying to elevate the feminine, but rather, elevate women into masculinity. Which, of course, shoves men out and offers them nowhere to go but the vacated feminine positions in society. Which makes them neither masculine nor truly male anymore. Not that feminists ever consider the ramifications of that, or care about them if they do. Men are not non-people because they aren’t feminine, men are non-people because feminists are a bunch of hate-filled, anger-driven, intellectual failures.

Yup. self-hatred at its finest. Betty Friedman was a miserable bitch, and decided it was better to blame other people for her unhappiness, verses asking herself what she herself could do to be happier. Which would be fine, except that she decided to project her bullshit onto half the species in a attempt to not feel like a freak. Which is, ironically enough, something only women ever do.

Well I started sucking ass again at the club, which is weird cuz I was so awesome before. This really isn’t a field report (cuz really nothing new has happened besides going out 3 nights in a row and realizing a few things).

1. I’m basically alone out here.

That pua I told you about is just a dude that went out a lot and learned game on his own. He has connections and introed me to his friends who are also good at game, but they’re a lot less worried (or even interested) in getting laid than I am. So I feel like, while I am approaching and stuff, it’s really just all on me to take it somewhere. And to be honest, I spent most of the time following him around to see what he does, but for 2 of the 3 nights, its been pretty awful for all of us. But they’re like “yeah, whatever I’ve got this other bitch anyways lol” and I’m like “um, hey, remember me? haven’t gotten laid in over a year. Could use some help.” It’s whatever I guess.

One of the nights we were just barhopping (me, the pua, and one of his friends) and the pua opens these two girls (both of which were very cute, but one was a little more chubby around the waist… basically she’d be hot as fuck if she was skinny, but instead she’s just okay/cute). So he’s talking to them and I’m feeling awesome from that other night when I was a boss and I didn’t really care about getting either of these girls. I could tell they weren’t into my pua buddy but they were both giving me iois lol (which I guess doesn’t matter since i never took it anywhere). It’s really pathetic cuz I was like waiting for the pua dude to be like ‘ask her if she has a car and go fuck her” or “go dance with her” but instead I just stood there and the pua dude was like fuck it I don’t care, so the two girls ended up leaving.

ASIDE: The convo almost went boringly logical about school again so I just implied she was retarded cuz she went to a worse school than me. I also couldn’t hear her so I told her whenever I can’t hear you I’m just going to assume you’re saying “I think you’re awesome”. So I replied with “yeah, I’m awesome, thanks” a few times.

“There’s a dancefloor upstairs” she says as she runs her hand up my neck. And there was like, no one upstairs. She was basically asking to be isolated, but I stood there like a retard…

Then the other girl I asked her about this necklace she was wearing which apparently was very special to her. (“You actually want to hear about it?” And I’m like “Um yeah why not?” Then she was kinda just into me after that).

The thing is they weren’t sober. So should I just bang girls who aren’t sober? Sigh I dunno dude, I feel like I’m just waiting for someone to tell me what to do just so I can feel like it’s okay to do it.

2. I’m definitely a Thrill of the Hunt type of dude.

Nothing surprising here.

3. I need to do daygame.

Cuz nothing scares me more than approaching girls when I’m not supposed to.

4. Need more negs.

Opening with a neutral “hello” is boring for me and the interaction never gets charged/polarizing. When I open with negs, they’re always more exciting. So yeah, going to try to remember to open with negs next time.

Well anyway, that’s pretty much it. And as for the girl, things look like they’re on the right track. My texts were flirty, asked for a meetup and she said she’s traveling for the 4th of July but we should do something the following week. Didn’t respond to my last flirty text, so the pua dude said I should wait until Monday and then text her something else he told me to send (it’s been 4 days).

Oh and Scray, don’t worry, I still suck… I think… it’s really all just mental. I’m awesome one night, and hilariously bad the next 3.

I’ll give this a breakdown later in the week (swamped with work). Also Scray I still owe a follow-up on that last 30 day challenge report, I’ll get that up this week too. Haven’t forgotten, just been busy lol

Internalizing this fact was so huge for me. It’s very freeing. This is all about you and what you can do.

‘The convo almost went boringly logical about school again so I just implied she was retarded cuz she went to a worse school than me’

So, I’ve been trying this out for the last few weeks, and it works pretty well I think. Instead of making a statement or asking questions about what she does/blah blah blah….just mask the rapport.

Real interaction:
Me: I think we should talk to one another with our hands…that really takes the pressure off, for sure (holds up hand) see what I mean?
Her: lol but now it just looks like a hand rabbit talking to me
Me: Maybe so, but it’s like….top 5 hand rabbits of all time
Her: hahaha, maybe even top 3
Me:…..where’d you learn how to rate hand rabbits?
Her: Oh, summer school class at the college
Me: Hahah, ya right, you’re probably an English major….that’s why you’re patronizing my hand rabbit.
Her: No, if you can believe it I was a biology major
Me: O ya? So you’d do experiments on my hand rabbit wtf (make rabbit go wide-mouthed)?!
Her: lol, no not at all….I love animals
Me: Me and my hand rabbit are still unsure……what do you mean, “love”
Her: blah blah blah blah I did this, did that, blah blah blah blah.

I’ve just now started doing this (and I only started noticing Saturday lol), but it seems like ^ that really helps out the sets. It’s just smooth as silk transitioning from saying funny weird dumb stuff into ‘let’s get to know one another.’

‘The thing is they weren’t sober. So should I just bang girls who aren’t sober? ‘

Individual call. I’ve been in sets with hot girls who were shitfaced and practically had their tongues down my throat…..and I’ve just walked away. Idk, it just ruins it for me. Srs. Now, if we’re BOTH drunk….who gives a shit. But ya, if I’m sober (which is most of the time)….nah, not going for it I don’t think.

‘Cuz nothing scares me more than approaching girls when I’m not supposed to.’

Ha. I still haven’t really done any daygame lol. I only try to expand my skillset when it becomes necessary. Like, I’ve noticed that 7+ girls are pretty rare outside mixed sets, so I’ve just added opening mixed sets to the list of shit I do. But it was only out of necessity.

‘Need more negs.’

Ha…..maybe so. Idk, my main focus as this whole venture wears on is to try and bring as much value/fun/good times to a girl/group in as short a time as possible. I almost never use negs, even when talking with girls who are way hotter than I am.

‘Oh and Scray, don’t worry, I still suck… I think… it’s really all just mental. I’m awesome one night, and hilariously bad the next 3.’

Ha, I’m not worried. I don’t want you to suck lol. But 1 to 3 good night/bad night ratio is awesome, man. I’m just bouncing ideas at you because you’re actually getting out there, like corv and immoral. So it’s just one soldier to another discussing how to best toss grenades into bunkers to flush out pussy lol.

Awesome, thanks man. I’m going out this weekend and things are also looking good in terms of setting up a Day 2 with club girl (in short, my text game sucks and my buddy ended up telling me to send texts that I thought were absolutely ridic… AND they worked lol), so I’ll keep you guys posted.

No. I don’t have the energy to engage you tuff keyboard jockey’s but realize this. How you THINK you will behave in a crowded lounge and around lots of high-value people, is much different from how you ACTUALLY will behave when someone tries to AMOG you.

Fights don’t happen as often as you think. A lot of situations are handled deftly when you don’t even realize your value is getting lowered. The same guys touting their MMA skills are usually to slow to counter-act the verbal ju-jitsu that goes down and takes milliseconds to successfully process. Why’s that? Because they spend all of their hours inside an MMA ring and not going out, Bob.

But tuff-guy, before you start salivating over your keyboard, please read this comment first. Hopefully it expands your horizons a little bit; seeing that you don’t get it from going out:

Every bar hires big scary-ass bouncers. But to upper management who wants everyone to have fun and keep spending money and keep his club’s reputation clean as a welcome fun environment, the best bouncers are the ones who can de-escalate a situation with smooth social skills and basic authoritative dominance before they get out of hand to where the big scary-ass bouncers have to start taking people down and bottles are flying.

No, he has calibration. It’s what people who aren’t Aspergy have, where you read the situation and calibrate your actions to how the other person is feeling. In a situation like that where the guy is in a chaotic rage, you back off calmly (or even run away). Most situations aren’t there and don’t escalate to there if you’re good with your social skills and understand psychology.

Why do you think cops don’t just jump out of the car guns blazing at every scene they get called to? They calibrate and try to keep things from escalating first.

Fuck, it’s like I have to hold your dick for you so you hit the toilet.

Oh i think they would. If they for 1 second thought you were trying to mug them it it would be curtains for you. I’m not talking about wannabes here i’m talking about serious dudes that do not play silly little games.

I know who you’re talking about. You’re not the first guy to come here with the tough talk about future scenarios that likely will not happen.

It’s a common pattern I see so I’m not “surprised” by what you’re saying. We expect people like you to come here and give their two cents about how this shit doesn’t fly in the real-world.

But when it does fly, and when there are multiple people who actually go out and who can actually back-up what OP says and not only that, but their own experiences jive with what’s being said, well, it doesn’t seem very likely that your fantasies are going to play out.

I experience them to. I really do. I imagine these fake arguments in my head all the time and how I will always come out ahead. This usually happens in the shower or in the gym.

I’m not saying it doesn’t fly in the real world you clown, i’m saying there will be scenarios when this shit will backfire. A waiter looked at my mates bird whilst out at dinner…….he went and stabbed him 16 times in the toilet. There will be times when this shit doesn’t work in real life…..i’m not saying all the time i’m saying sometimes. You think reality is 100% predictable…..you are delusional, get back to your crackpipe.

“I’m not saying it doesn’t fly in the real world you clown, i’m saying there will be scenarios when this shit will backfire.”

Yes, there are psychos out there. You avoid those psychos and you get away from the situation when you realize you’re around one. You learn to tell who these people are in advance by going out a lot and learning to read people’s body-language and attitude and calibrating to them and learning when someone is a psycho who’s going to stab you 16 times in a bathroom.

This is why we don’t stress this AMOG stuff very much to newbies. The fucking Asperger dipshits like this will get themselves killed because they haven’t figured out that when someone says “IF YOU TALK TO MY GIRL AGAIN I’M GOING TO STAB YOUR FACE IN HALF AHAHGHGHGHGHGHAHGRHGRGHGHGHG” means you run away instead of trying to tell them “nice shirt bro, I had one like that in junior high!”

“A waiter looked at my mates bird whilst out at dinner…….he went and stabbed him 16 times in the toilet.”

More dynamics went on than that. Going by your post, you are probably too socially-inept to have noticed any of them though, so I won’t get into the dozens of little things that probably went down to lead to the stabbing or the dozens of ways the guy could’ve avoided it.

No, not “everybody.” You are a group of self-reinforcing mythologizers, led around like puppies by PUA.com-world.

Men do fight, and it’s not always out of insecurity, you post-masculine sell-out fairies. It’s fine that you hold your manhoods cheap — whatever. But this mythic superiority which you build up around your self-castration is risible. It’s to the point where you actively disbelieve in the possibility of men acting like men.

I’ve seen boys rationalize away their cowardice, it’s almost understandable, especially in that “laugh[s] at honor.” But are you really such pussies that you have to make an entire ideology out of your back-down, chucklehead, sissy-runaway instinct?

In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.

Moreover, it’s not about the fight so much as it is the ability to fight given the circumstance. Just as peace is negotiated through strength. Just as large militaries prevent war. Just as having access to firepower often obviates the need to use that firepower. That’s why Colt called its bestselling gun “The Peacemaker.” That guy looks like he can handle himself = fewer challenges to his authority. But when the spunky little-man syndrome boys do challenge his authority, he has to be able to back it up with something more than snarktastic rebuttals.

I have never seen a group of “men” so spontaneously and systematically defend cowardice. It is positively puke-inducing. And if you think the sarcastic fleeing twerp is somehow attractive to women, then you’ve never in your lives truly confronted a man.

“I have never seen a group of “men” so spontaneously and systematically defend cowardice.”

Again, like I wrote to some other dude in another thread: your problem is that you think we care if you think we’re men or not. Like you believe you have this value and that when you say we’re fairies, sissies, pussies, cowards, blah blah blah, that we should be affected by that. Ultimately you’re simply socially conditioned into believing that men have to act a certain way to be considered men and it annoys you that none of us give a shit what you think.

Here’s what I think when a guy wants to fight me over a girl in a bar: “I’ve just met this girl and barely know her or give a shit about her. I can meet 10 other girls who look just like her. This guy wants to cave my head in…maybe I can take him, maybe I can’t but either way I’m risking disfigurement, smacking my head on a stool if I go down, paralysis, lawsuits, jail-time, who knows I might accidentally kill him. On the plus side, some people I don’t know and will probably never see again will think I’m a “man”.

Doing a quick little mathematical calculations on all this: Ya, I’mma walk away. You can have her bro. I’ll go to another bar now and talk to a girl who’s just as hot as her.”

But you do what you like…you’re in your basement talking big about manliness from your armchair anyway, so it doesn’t really matter lol

Well….my only question would be this: isn’t violence, esp in a public place, a man’s last recourse when he’s lost all other power? For example, if a low-value fuckwit were giving you a hard time….who cares? If the group believes he’s low-value, there’s no threat.

But, when some high-value jerk comes over and tools you, then the group starts laughing at you. You try to nonreact/engage in banter to no avail. Then, when you’ve exhausted your options and been beaten on every possible level….you retaliate with violence.

In a lot of ways, violence is the ultimate expression of powerlessness. You so desperately want the other person to react and acknowledge/validate you that you will literally beat it out of them.

Violence is never the answer = femmethink. Violence is the ultimate* answer, which is why we culturally strive so hard to avoid it.

You assume that a “fuckwit” has “low value” to women. Given a woman’s irreducible, universal preference to being brutalized more than intellectually tickled, her reproductive system naturally lunges for the brute, even if finishing school taught her to restrain her loins. In an emasculated ethos, the fairy Oscar Wildean wit rules the court. In the state of nature, rape is truth.

So the question is, are you flirting with her civilized unmentionables or are you enticing nature’s cunt?

Now step back and contemplate the absurdity of the statement: “Violence is the ultimate expression of powerlessness.” Contemplate what kind of estrogen-softened milieu could twist so fundamental a truth of nature into its opposite, enough for a self-aware individual like you into not noticing the absurd internal contradiction.

Violence is historically, physically, naturally synonymous with power. The slave, who by definition chooses his servitude over violence, rationalizes pacifism as “superior” and violence as “a man’s last recourse” in an attempt to justify the cowardice plain for the world to see. It’s as if he’s saying, I know you just saw me get my ass kicked, but let me tell you the whole story and you’ll agree with me that I just did the ass-kicking. Even women, who are naturally easily duped, don’t fall for that monday-morning quarterbacking.

But we were born in and live in an environment so far from the reality of pain that we are simply baffled by the raw presentation of its superiority to all other factors.

Matt

* In truth it is the penultimate answer, but no need to confuse the topic with Christian theology here.

‘“Violence is the ultimate expression of powerlessness. Contemplate what kind of estrogen-softened milieu could twist so fundamental a truth of nature into its opposite, enough for a self-aware individual like you into not noticing the absurd internal contradiction.”’

Not absurd at all, given the context of my statement. If the group is on your side, then your ignoring/disregarding/ or even, yes, violence toward, the interloper is pretty much fine. If the group is not on your side and the interloper is higher value, then violence is the ultimate expression of powerlessness.

Even in human society, it’s not -violence- that is the expression of power. It’s the ability to persuade others to do your bidding, which includes undertaking violence on your behalf.

So, I didn’t say that violence is always a man’s last recourse or whatever. When a man has enough allies, he can pretty much do whatever he wants because the group will sanction his conduct. I’m just saying that in this situ, it’s an expression of powerlessness — all attempts to gain allies have failed, so therefore this is the last attempt to persuade.

‘It’s as if he’s saying, I know you just saw me get my ass kicked, but let me tell you the whole story and you’ll agree with me that I just did the ass-kicking. Even women, who are naturally easily duped, don’t fall for that monday-morning quarterbacking.’

Was at a house party last week. A friend’s new gf has a stalker — ex-lover, military, buff, etc. Stalker tried to instigate violence against my friend — slammed head against wall, pushed him, etc. The group rushed in and pulled off the stalker. Stalker has been ostracized from social circle. My friend did -nothing- beyond say ‘hey, I have no fight with you. Stop. I have no fight with you.’ Friend even said ‘hey, we can leave.’ EVERYONE ELSE said ‘NO, DON’T leave! we like you, blah blah blah blah blah…’

So……..
like I said, I honestly believe it comes down to allies/value…not violence itself.

Now step back and contemplate the absurdity of the statement: “Violence is the ultimate expression of powerlessness.” Contemplate what kind of estrogen-softened milieu could twist so fundamental a truth of nature into its opposite, enough for a self-aware individual like you into not noticing the absurd internal contradiction.

This.

Which is why The State so adamantly and jealously guards its “credible monopoly” to the exercise of force… and why one of their main PSYOPS is the canard of “violence never solves anything”.

Even in human society, it’s not -violence- that is the expression of power. It’s the ability to persuade others to do your bidding, which includes undertaking violence on your behalf.

As Greg indicates, the implied violence of police power underwrites this “ability to persuade others.” Like I said, you are so far detached from this “ultimate” reality that you cease to believe it.

Stalker tried to instigate violence against my friend — slammed head against wall, pushed him, etc. The group rushed in and pulled off the stalker. Stalker has been ostracized from social circle.

Perfect example. The violence of the group carried the day, because it was greater than the violent man’s solo maneuver executed without thinking. That is society writ small: the violence of the state is so much larger than the individual that it may be transmuted into a simple fear of transgressing the law. You misinterpret this fear as contextual prudence — if you commit violence, another violence will strip you of your achievement (in court, in prison).

Of course that is true. But that is all a dynamic of violence, even though the perpetrator’s instigating act of force is more proximate and therefore seemingly more real to you.

Now, which form of violence — the distant and theoretical, or the proximate and bloody — do you think involuntarily raises a woman’s heart rate more? Her civil mind will reach for ways to explain the violent man as a “stalker” or “weird” or “creepy.” But her nature, insofar as she allows it free rein, will be involuntarily intrigued. And women (ahem, Rihanna) will occasionally allow themselves to risk being beaten to death in pursuit of that tingle, “social circle” be damned.

Given an awareness of that dynamic — which the perp at your party emphatically does not have — a man can “AMOG” without matching the “wit” of a skinny-armed snark. Because it’s not the demonstration of violence that sparks the tingle, it’s the latent capacity for violence that allows her to imagine being thrown around sociopathically by that same indifferent power. All the clever magical misdirection of David Copperfield can’t distract her from the dicklessness of a man without equipment.

In other words, be literally cocky. Make sure your balls can cover the checks your mouth is writing. Women are genetically designed to be able to call that bluff. Their senses are wired to detect that kind of fraud — the legacy of her precious eggs depends on it.

The police power depends on numbers. The government has a lot of friends who are willing to do its bidding. When that support wanes = revolution.

‘The violence of the group carried the day, because it was greater than the violent man’s solo maneuver executed without thinking.’

But the violence itself is almost irrelevant, and later on in your response you get to it —> ‘Because it’s not the demonstration of violence that sparks the tingle, it’s the latent capacity for violence that allows her to imagine being thrown around sociopathically by that same indifferent power.’

However, where you’re saying it’s this ‘latent capacity for’ violence, I’m saying it’s the ability to persuade/dominate others that is important. All I’m doing is expanding the set, because I believe that there are several ways to persuade/dominate others beyond ‘latent capacity for violence.’

Scray is right. The guys who turn to violence are either unhinged legit psychos (like the weird homeless guy who stumbled into the bar and is drinking in a corner) or they’re guys who don’t have any better way to “win” so they resort to violence because they’re powerless and it’s the easiest way to vent that powerlessness and try to take power back.

No, I don’t fight. I don’t have to. But I hang with guys who DO fight, regularly (in the ring and on the streets/bars, some of them literally believe that a night out drinkin should end in either fucking or fighting and pick fights if they don’t get laid), who are a lot tougher than half the eBadasses here, and the pattern is very blatant.

This is also why a lot of good fighters don’t get into fights, because they know some bar brawl with a loser talking shit is beneath them.

Matt and Greg live in a fantasy world.

Straight-up:

If you’re resorting to violence over what a man says to you, it’s because you hold his opinion higher than your own.

And if you’re resorting to violence over a woman, it’s because you know you can’t go down the street and get another one just as good or better.

going on a tirade that long about another man working out is just sad. there’s a difference between playing the dozens (male neg hits on each other) and completely ingratiating yourself in the offchance the guy is a greater beta and not the alpha he looks…… cause if you try to pull that on a real alpha he would just clown your ass.

in other words he would “too long; didn’t read” you and win the girls you two are so pathetically competing over.

“going on a tirade that long about another man working out is just sad.”

You use as much as you need to. Some guys will cave when you just stare at them expressionless instead of saying anything, and then they start to stammer and fill in the silence because they were expecting you to fawn over their accomplishments and they can’t handle the social pressure of silence, and that’s all you need to do.

Some guys are more aggressive and the dynamics with the girls you’re with are more chaotic and you have to spit a little more out. You stop when he’s reacting to you and you have higher-value to the girls.

This is called calibration. It’s what separates social cool guys from weird Aspergies who go out and spout memorizes routines word for word regardless of their circumstances or the other person’s reactions.

“cause if you try to pull that on a real alpha he would just clown your ass.”

And then you learn from how he clowns your ass, so that the next time you’re in that situ, you can use it. That’s how this stuff was learned…this is all stuff that Natural alphas do, we’re just backwards engineering it.

If you get into an AMOG battle with someone who’s good, it can go back and forth for a while. The irony is that usually if you’re both good, you end up respecting eachother instead of fighting because you’re both like “lol this guy’s a boss too, we’d get along good” and become buddies for the night.

How do I know this? Because I’ve fucking done this a shitload and so have other guys who go out regularly.

Calling GBFM!! Can you guide Mr. Ronin on this subject? I was going to write a long missive but GBFM’s main thrust is that great men are made of something other than a Lamborghini, fine watch, high paying job, and fucking 10’s too for that matter although the latter is frequently a byproduct of what GBFM will tell you is important. I think he’s probably moved onto the next post but pay some attention to him, especially when he’s not ‘freewheelin’ “

to be clear: the fine watch, car, and job and being a great man are not mutually exclusive either, but the first 3 things do not make the last thing. They often result from BEING the last thing but not necessarily.

No but seriously, you just challenge yourself. Spend a month going out without doing your hair but still approaching lots of girls. If you wear a suit normally, go out in a t-shirt and jeans. If you have a good job, tell girls you work at McDonald’s. etc. etc.

You basically have to shit on your external Identity so you teach your brain “okay I thought I had to have a good job to get girls, but I’ve gotten laid like 5 times and all these girls think I work at McDonald’s so wtf?? I guess my job DOESN’T matter…” and then you re-watch Fight Club and you finally understand the message about “You are not your fucking khakis.” 🙂

This is a long, slow process. And it’s a process that most people will fight against and society will try to pressure you into giving up at (“bro, where’s your suit?? we gotta’ wear suits tonight man, you can’t get girls without the suit! I’m wearing my suit, c’mon man don’t make me be the only suit guy!” or a TV commercial “buy the new Ferrari 5000 blah blah, look at this hot girl who’s crawling on it, hot girls only like guys with a Ferrari” etc. etc.).

That’s why most guys don’t do it, and that’s why most guys are externally validated.

You have to understand: These guys with the suits and the 6-packs and the money and shit…they THINK they’re winning. In their mind, they are achieving all these goals society set for them and told them that women were attracted to…they have NO idea how fragile their self-esteem actually is, so they don’t BOTHER learning to base their self-worth internally, because they have suits and money and nice cars, so they CAN base their self-worth externally because they have those external things. And around other guys stuck in the same rat race mindset, they beat those guys at that game.

But their self-esteem is built like a house of cards. They lose their job, or gain 1% bodyfat or run into someone who isn’t impressed with their achievements, and it all comes crashing down. They don’t even understand the dynamics behind what just happened…their brain thinks “dammit I lost the girls, it’s because I still have that extra 1% of bodyfat, oh man i gotta hit the gym harder 😦 😦 maybe if I work a few more overtime shifts and make some more $ for a nicer model of car, then this won’t happen!!” and run right back into the unwinnable race…

They can’t comprehend the concept that they could just feel good and awesome all the time based on nothing, like that that could be their default state, because society conditioned them to believe that you can’t be happy until you have all this other external shit handled. It’s the same way girls are conditioned to believe they have no worth if they aren’t pretty…except that dynamic is a little different because technically in the sexual marketplace it’s true lol

But it’s all the same concept in action, and one you can take advantage of when you understand it.

Like some of those things I’ve heard people say like, “Kill your Ego” sound like there are such encyclopedias of meaning, work, and trial+error behind them, that it’s an undertaking in-itself to start understanding what they mean.

“What is worse: being a five year old and being made fun of for wearing red shoes? Or being 35 years old and being made fun of by another man for investing twenty years in personal achievement”

Again, you need to look at the setting. Club scene girls are retarded for the most part and most high quality women (difference btw good looking but low quality women) wouldn’t waste their time in these venues.

I know plenty of good high quality girls that never frequent the venues where these interactions take place.

That being said the frame issues that were presented in the post can and do work in real life and I’ve used them in the past. But by and large, true power brokers could give a fuck and literally laugh pussy away. I know several real “alphas” that lol at pussy, guys that turn girls away for the lolz. These are guys that have banged hundreds of bomb women

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here. That all male endeavors outside of pussy hounding will be rendered extinct?
Believe it or not, there are achievements to be had in life that are far more rewarding than laying a harlot. The men with inspiration and drive will never be satisfied with a life of meaningless caddish behavior.

Don’t wait for the end before you can finally allow yourself to be happy and approach girls, because 1) there IS no end because you let society determine your values for you and 2) you will be unequipped to get/keep girls at that point because you didn’t go out and socialize and learn to attract women while you were working your way up.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct thinker. (Apologies to Keynes.)

“Be happy now” and “enjoy the journey” is pseudophilosophy inherited from you know not where. You treat it like the distillation of a thousand PUAs’ field reports when in fact it was the hallmark-card platitude which led your pursuit in the first place. The founders of nations, the discoverers of ideas, the inventors, adventurers, scientists, athletes, and conquerors never whispered inanities to themselves like “Be! Happy! Now!” or “Eat! Pray! Love!”

Just because you do not recognize the greatness in you which requires sacrifice does not mean other once similarly downtrodden men do not either. Anyone who truly wants to “live deep and suck out all the marrow of life” understands that the “be happy now” philosophy is the enemy of that goal. Michael Phelps spent eight hours a day for a decade in the pool to swim a fraction of a second better than anyone on the planet, ever. Above, you just clucked at such sacrifice as foolhardy, but all genuine men relate.

Hey … come to think of it … maybe your time spent crashing and burning through 60 approaches a day was worth the misery too. If you had told yourself to “be happy now” at any point in your “journey” to accomplishment you’d have hit the bong and the HD-porn and the Xbox years ago.

““Be happy now” and “enjoy the journey” is pseudophilosophy inherited from you know not where.”

It’s inherited from: being happy feels good and I enjoy it and other people are happier when I’m around them being happy so we all feel good.

But you feel free to stew and wallow in misery and self-loathing…your grandmother upstairs will be making dinner for you even if you feel like your life is a sad dark clown lol

“Michael Phelps spent eight hours a day for a decade in the pool to swim a fraction of a second better than anyone on the planet, ever”

Ask him if he enjoys swimming and if he liked the feeling of gaining each fraction of a second better as he trained. And ask Michael Jordan if he enjoyed being on the court even when he was a kid and not a pro yet.

I’m really used to better arguments from you, you don’t have Greg writing your posts for you these days, do you?

“If you had told yourself to “be happy now” at any point in your “journey” to accomplishment you’d have hit the bong and the HD-porn and the Xbox years ago.”

I enjoy sticking my dick in girls, as well as their general company. You may feel different, and that’s cool too..I support your homosexual experiments with Greg and hope you two will be very happy together.

Insofar as you are focused on the demands of your groin and expecting that to translate into accomplishment, yes, “these goals are mutually exclusive.” Insofar as you are focused on accomplishment and expecting that to translate into a bounty for your groin, yes, you can have your cake and eat it.

As someone we both respect once said, “You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority.”

i won’t take the time to find it, but i specifically remember you once saying that (to paraphrase) you wish that men would forgo 10 years of their young lives to focus on personal/professional growth. i seem to remember there was another, similar comment in a third thread. i wouldn’t be surprised if there were further such comments, but, again, i don’t care to search for them.

as such, i believe my above-assessment is fairly extrapolated from said comments of yours.

also, why do guys like you and cyro insist that we’re all trying to lay harlots? you do realize how deeply feminine it is for you to try to undermine me by suggesting that the only chicks who sleep with me are sluts, right?

“also, why do guys like you and cyro insist that we’re all trying to lay harlots?”

huh? when have I ever insisted on such a thing?

I was responding to Grit’s suggestion that you can’t function as a productive member of society and also be a Casanova. My point was that, if a guy has the inherent motivation to do great things, he will seek great things, even if he is a player that regularly seduces women.

Laying harlots is just a figure of speech. I usually call girls “sluts” just because it pisses the right people off and that makes me smile. Also, if you’re running club game in 2013 America…well, those are what we call sluts.

I appreciate it when people take the time to paraphrase me. It confirms my suspicion about how little is actually getting through. You read what you want to read.

It is about prioritizing, not mutually excluding compatible pursuits.

Neither is it about “harlotry” per se. Cryo used that word as shorthand, not as a commentary on the kind of women Yeahokcool is exclusively trying to bed.

When we say “drunk sluts” or its equivalent, it’s a reminder that the degree of difficulty is low enough that a cursory effort should suffice, and that making it one’s top priority is an indication of a man’s inability to multitask or his incapacity to achieve goals with a higher degree of difficulty. Hence the PUA’s vacillation between the contradictions of “It’s not easy to be a player” and “all women are whores.” If all women were sluts, there isn’t much to pick-up; if women were hard to lay, then Pimpin’ Ain’t Easy.

you know you can’t deny that you made the comment i referenced above, so you dance around it while singing some old tune about how i am too stupid to understand what you’re saying. you are (or have previously) advocating(ed) that men ignore women to the exclusion of their personal development. simple as that. if that’s not one thing working to the exclusion of another, i’m not quite sure what makes the cut.

in any event, let’s agree to agree with me: you can both be successful with women and your career AT THE SAME TIME.

I am super curious what PUAs think about legalized prostitution. If sex is part of the journey and not the ultimate destination, then they should have no problem with legal prostitution.

Legal prostitution would also mothball AMOG tactics to an extent. Who cares how skilled you are at delivering or reframing ‘bro backslaps’ when you can plunk down a twenty and get laid with a hotter chick.

However.

If the PUA subconsciouly knows that the reaaal ugly truth that sex IS the male destination, that that means they are secretly pedestalizing sex and specifically ignoring that men pursue crafts and skills to attract women for sex.

The wool has been pulled over all of our eyes anyway, since modern women have had as much sex or more than prostitutes, but are still clean doves in the eyes of an economy that subsidizes sluts.

“If the PUA subconsciouly knows that the reaaal ugly truth that sex IS the male destination, that that means they are secretly pedestalizing sex and specifically ignoring that men pursue crafts and skills to attract women for sex.”

It’s not just sex that is the destination, it is mastery over women, if anything. Sex is just a small part of the equation.

According to that, you’re right. There are pursuits that are literally and figuratively higher than laying harlots. However, you need to meet those baser sexual needs first. So ya, no one said that chasing pussy is the be all end all. But, it’s an important step on the way to that end all be all.

How can you really devote yourself to self-actualization when you can’t even find a willing member of the opposite sex to poke.

‘No one will willingly pursue a job that requires years of investment when all it takes is a little frame control to tarnish it.’

You mean people will actually have to learn to internally deal with adversity and follow their own path? No, anything but that.

Ever since I’ve started working out, people have given me shit for it —-especially in the last two or three months because I’ve gotten insanely strict about my diet. Now that my face is starting to change — losing that bodyfat — I get more bullshit. And ya, I’ll get weird looks or someone trying to tool me when I order a salad at a restaurant. At first, it had the desired effect — blah blah qualify, blah blah.

But I mean….one day it just clicked. lol….how the fuck could getting fit EVER be a bad thing? In WHAT world? lol. So ya, now if someone wants to make a fuss ‘o man ordering a salad in a restaurant…whaaaaaaat…lol, wow dude’ I just kind of shrug ‘hey, sometimes it’s lonely at the top, dudebros’ and leave it at that — no fucks beyond are given. They’ll try to keep needling you at first….but the best response is to just smile silently while they laugh, joke, ask you questions — it’s always ‘let me ask you this…..(some stupid bullshit trap question, the answering of which means you are qualifying)’….to which I just smile…’I’m glad you’re so curious about it. There’s a lot of info online.’ As if he’s your biggest fan.

So ya, now apply that to the other shit — a career that you’ve built up for decades, a nice car, a nice watch, etc. In WHAT world can those possibly be bad? When you let a guy tool you, you’re saying ‘I don’t really deserve all of these nice things I have.’ When you just act like he’s a fan, you say ‘ya, I’m awesome THEREFORE I have all of these nice things.’ They can only be reframed if your frame about them is weak.

I mean, sometimes there are AMOGs who are REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good at what they do, and they’ll get under your skin…but you know….that adversity builds you.

“And ya, I’ll get weird looks or someone trying to tool me when I order a salad at a restaurant. At first, it had the desired effect — blah blah qualify, blah blah.

But I mean….one day it just clicked. lol….how the fuck could getting fit EVER be a bad thing? In WHAT world? lol. So ya, now if someone wants to make a fuss ‘o man ordering a salad in a restaurant…whaaaaaaat…lol, wow dude’ I just kind of shrug ‘hey, sometimes it’s lonely at the top, dudebros’ and leave it at that — no fucks beyond are given.”

This. Solid. Very solid. You’ve come a retardedly long way from your first posts where you’d get butt-hurt over people giving you shit. But you earned it because you’ve put in all the work to earn it. Good stuff dude.

And yes, this basically describes it…one day the switch flips (sometimes it flips back depending on the environment and circumstances etc. and you have to keep flipping it again until it learns to stay flipped in those situs), and you just let go and realize that reacting is dumb and that literally the notion of determining your worth based on other people’s opinion of you is silly. It actually becomes a ridiculous notion to you, that anyone could make fun of your salad and expect you to take that seriously.

loveknoxxz: YaReally that was a very interesting yet simple analysis of having the right frame for game. Alot of guys get caught in the canned routines or saying what they think is either witty lines ,or if your under the urban influence: pimp lines. Game is much much more that just getting laid, although proper game will get you some nice trim. Proper game will also aid one into accomplishing their goals and keeping a health relatioship with spouse, family members, and LTR’s, and climbing up that corperate ladder. Because game is the ability to manipulate social interactions to a desired out come. Like knowing what to say to people at the right time to get a certain reaction out of them. Its chess at its finest.

Ha, thanks man. After the 30 day I’ve actually been trying to take a break from cold approaching, but now I just do it lol. Altho, it’s kind of shitty in that….I’m kind of getting obsessed — I’m starting to put other stuff on the backburner. There’s just so much out there to see and do. That happen to you?

What’s a problem? If someone complimenting you just take compliment and say “thank you”.

– “wow man you’re ripped that awesome. You must spend all day in the gym hey, you must be going for a 2am workout after the bar tonight to stay that jacked lol I wish I had that kind of dedication but I’m a lazy fuck (pat my belly and make the girls rub it). I love good food too much, I have to get a steak when I’m at a restaraunt, I’d be embarrassed to order a salad lol you got way more balls than me man”
– O, thank you. You seem to know a lot of about renaissance concepts.

-“wow man you’re ripped that awesome. You must spend all day in the gym hey, you must be going for a 2am workout after the bar tonight to stay that jacked lol I wish I had that kind of dedication but I’m a lazy fuck (pat my belly and make the girls rub it). I love good food too much, I have to get a steak when I’m at a restaraunt, I’d be embarrassed to order a salad lol you got way more balls than me man”-

-“Nah, I just fell from the sky this way. I’ve always been this awesome.” (delivered deadpan with a note of playfulness)

Also, the key to overcoming this sort of AMOG is to just respond with something witty and WAY less wordy. That way the other guy ends up looking like a babbling fool while you remain unwavering in your frame. Can be hard to pull off if you’re a Slow Joe.

And always make it clear that you couldn’t really car less about the girls. Take em or leave em. You are solid, stoic and aloof while the AMOG runs his mouth and desperately tries to assert his frame.

Yep, this is pretty much the way to handle it. “Thanks man!” and even compliment them back. This can lead to funny situs where two guys are “fighting” over a girl by trying to out-compliment eachother, which is hilariously absurd to see when it happens, especially when you don’t understand the little sub-communication dynamics going on.

The only reason you can end up needing more than a “Thank you!” to thwart what I’m doing is that the situation I’m doing it in is a chaotic club environment so you better have something fascinating as fuck to follow-up that “thank you!” with to keep the girls’ attention or you will fade into the background because you didn’t make yourself HIGHER value than me, you just made yourself NOT low value…but at the same time, I have a fuckton of chick crack to throw at the girls to spike their emotions and I know to isolate them from you and lead them around etc., so ya, you didn’t lose value, but I’m still skyrocketing my value with the girls and I will take them.

In the daytime in a more chill environment, with some guy who doesn’t really have any game, and girls who aren’t going anywhere or girls in your social circle that you see a lot, ya, a simple “Thanks dude!” can be enough.

“No one will willingly pursue a job that requires years of investment when all it takes is a little frame control to tarnish it.”

Fortunately, most guys don’t WANT to be the jobless alcoholic bum anymore than you do, even if they can get laid doing that. We take this to extremes to expand the knowledge-base of human psychology and fully understand the extents of the art-form of seduction…but we aren’t the common man. Most guys DO want to do something with their lives, for their own personal validation.

All we’re doing is showing that hey, instead of waiting until you’re a doctor and have 10% bodyfat, why not start approaching girls now and learning to flirt with them while you earn those things…because they WILL fuck you before you earn those things.

“What is worse: being a five year old and being made fun of for wearing red shoes? Or being 35 years old and being made fun of by another man for investing twenty years in personal achievement?”

lol this is actually the exact same feeling of social-pressure, and it’s why the 35yo guy feels “icky” and frustrated and wants to cry just like he did when kids made fun of his shoes at 5 years old. Most people don’t learn how to handle that social-pressure. I use this a lot in group dynamics if I have to “discipline” people…put social-pressure on them until they get uncomfortable and make sure they understand what actions led to that, and then lift it from them, rinse & repeat until they stop that behavior. This isn’t just for tooling guys or making bitchy girls be nice, it’s for like, calming your rowdy drunk buddy down, or getting someone to quit talking about negative subjects that bring the group energy down, etc.

We went out to this megabar in one of the nicer towns. It was me, my roommate and five of his fraternity brothers. This was one of the better frats at a large state school and based off my observations and the demeanor in which they carry themselves, I have no reason to think that they were losers at college or didn’t pull and hang around a lot of cute girls.

But check this out.

We were standing at this bar and the ratio was probably moreso in our favor. We were in a diff town than the one we lived in, were only there for a weekend and were all a little buzzed. Guess who did most if not all of the approaching?

At first of all us stood there and at this point I had really gotten into my head and was worried about getting rejected in front of my roommate and his buddies. Illogical fear that consumes you to the point where I had to first start-off by making small-talk in the smoking section and with an old man at the bar while I was ordering a drink. I knew the trouble that being socially rusty can cause so I spent 20 minutes warming up.

We decide to go downstairs where the action was at with me leading the crew.

1) First two-set HB6s arguing over something. I interrupt and ask them if they seem okay. I say it again and slowly, and at this point they’re intrigued because what could possibly be wrong. I tell them I’m asking because they seemed to not be getting enough male attention and I wanted to make sure they were alright. They laughed and responded and there was this brief window where I could have took the set and ran with it some more but I wasn’t mentally there yet.

2) Two-set but this time one is an hb6 and one an hb7. I come up and use the same line and they immediately smile and open and we chat for about three minutes and I’m running my usual routines. One lives a couple blocks away in NYC and the HB7 lives further downtown. “Oh what a shame, we wouldn’t workout…I don’t do long distance.” I then introduce them to my roommate but literally had to drag him to them as he was worried what his frat buddies would think. I would stop talking and the HB7 would engage me with her style of banter and there were a ton of IOIs. I’d go to get a water and when I come back they were happy to see me and I’d apologize for hurting them and leaving them (saying this sarcastically). I def missed a moment to escalate and/or get a number from both of them as I was still trying to chat everyone up.

3) This tall HB8.5 brunette walks through the room and eyes turn on her. My roommate makes a comment on how hot she is and he pivots himself accordingly to approach. He hesitates a second too long and as she almost walks by I grab her by the elbow and stop her. “Excuse me, this is totally random but you look just…like…my future ex-girlfriend.” She moves a step away then leans back in laughing with this huge smile. She asks me what i said and I repeat myself and at this point my brain was in full-retard mode.
I didn’t know what to say next as I didn’t expect this to go that far and my roomie was in shock too. She knew it as well but as she walked away she looked back and mouthed “bye” and there was the briefest window where she WANTED me to back it up with something more than the opener. It’s still a mind-fuck to me that it worked but mind you, I’m 5’8 and she was pushing 5’11. How many guys like me opened direct? Hmmm, the more “off the radar” you are with certain girls (let’s say HB8s and up), the more receptive they can be to you because it’s almost as-if value is assumed from the get-go. You have to have something going on if you approach directly like that. I’ve noticed this pattern from going out and from the ~5 positive interactions I’ve had from approaching about HB8+ directly.

The rest of the time at this venue I was opening sets, high-fiving girls when they took shots, coming back to mixed groups I had opened and just being social. Guess what the frat-stars were doing. I’m not hating on them though, all cool guys and I’m sure they were just trying to catch up and hang-out like normal social dudes.

The grand finale came at the end. There was this really cute, tan HB7 Asian standing in a 5-set of girls all HB6s and above. I could tell who the Queen Bee Alpha-chick was and as my roommate discussed how to approach the Asian, I told him to befriend the group first. I had no idea how-to but thought of some YaReally shit I’ve read in the past.

I opened the two least attractive ones closest to me indirectly and used some chick-bait about how them and there friends seemed like alpha girls and that they were probably mean if need be. The girls got what I was saying and then one of them deferred the “Alpha Chick” title to the girl who I thought was the Queen Bee. I told her to introduce and the Queen Bee was pretty incredible to try to tame. I talked to her at first using some cocky/funny but also alluding to how her friends told me that she was the Alpha Girl of the group and she totally ate it up.

The frat buddies were all watching this go down and I felt like the stakes were high. The Queen Bee (with her back-turned to her group) rattled off the names of the girls in the group and immediately I stepped to each girl (as they were standing in a circle) and called them by their names. One-by-one, as I said their names, their eyes lit up and they went buck-wild when I got one of them wrong at the end (4/5 ain’t bad). Still, I displayed some kind of social dominance and I made sure to high-five the girl whose name I slightly messed up.
The alpha-chick and I continue to talk and she starts qualifying me hard-core. I didn’t want to go into dancing monkey mode so I gave some serious answers in regards to where I live. When she asks age, I tell her to guess and if she gets it right she gets a kiss. She guesses it right and I playfully pull her in but she rebuffs me. I’d say 50% because in front of her friends and 50% because not enough comfort(?)/attraction(?). It really didn’t matter and if anything I think it helped.

But at one point I cut her off and tell her how it’s funny that it seems like she was conducting an interview. Her eyes lit up and she told me she likes to know if certain guys are with it or not. I just stop and stare at her and she busts out laughing, as if she couldn’t believe her own bs. From there, I tell her that her friends and my friends should meet-up later and I go to push for the number close.

Weird: As I’m number closing she tells me that she should take my number and she’ll decide if she’ll call me. I just stare at her blankly and she busts out laughing again like she couldn’t believe her own bullshit. Fellas, I’ve heard the “Hm, no, but let me take your number down line” and I know it doesn’t lead to anywhere positive. It’s either that by me being non-reactive and just staring, it tore down that wall of hers or she was kidding off the get-go. Interesting enough.

I take her number down, her friends had stepped to the other side of the bar and she goes to meet but I pull her in for a hug and some kino. No it wasn’t a “I’m trying to fuck you vibe” but she def was attracted and I was able to score a number of the Alpha Girl of the group, with the option to meet her and her 5 friends later if it panned out. It was very good vibes though as I left the venue and said bye to her. It was incredible.

I did this while the guys I came with stood in the corner, beers chest-high and joked among themselves.

One thing I notice, when you go out with people who are aware of how you try to pick up girls, you tend to not pick-up girls. You get inside your head, you have this identity you want to protect, and you’ll be damned if you put yourself on the line, get rejected and see that identity crumble to pieces.

I felt like the same thing was going on with the frat buddies. They didn’t want to take the first step. The same thing happens when I go out with guys in the NYC Lair, we have these personas we built up that we don’t want to damage. Realizing that made me push and become social at that bar this weekend.

“I felt like the same thing was going on with the frat buddies. They didn’t want to take the first step.”

You’ll find that a lot of Natural alphas won’t cold approach, but will HAPPILY jump in when YOU cold approach and try to take over your set and block you out with their body-language and keep the girl’s attention from you etc. lol I call this Vulture Game. It’s annoying but it’s funny because the underlying reason for it is that they’re too chickenshit to approach.

“The same thing happens when I go out with guys in the NYC Lair, we have these personas we built up that we don’t want to damage. Realizing that made me push and become social at that bar this weekend.”

Good. Perfect. This is the lesson to take away from this and this is an important lesson to always remind yourself. I actually go out with the intention of making an ass out of myself first because I know it’ll put me in a good headspace and it’ll give my group permission to risk getting shot down themselves because “hey, it can’t be as bad as YaReally lol”. It makes for a better night for everyone.

I’ll break down your FR in more detail this week when I do Scray and Hunters, there’s a lot of cool little dynamics going on.

You did great, good job on that all-girl set…I used to actually focus on those sets because I would go out solo a lot and I could build quick social proof by approaching and working a bachelorette party or birthday party…it meant I was regularly diving into 5-10+ sets of girls at the start of the night stone cold sober, but I learned a lot about how to work those groups (same way you did, figure out the leader and charm her so she allows you access to her girls). Even if I don’t bang any of the girls out of that group (which often is too hard to do because they don’t want to be slutty in front of their judgemental friends by going home with a guy etc.), all the guys in the bar think I’m a boss and all the girls are turned on and wondering who I am that I could rock a group like that…plus I walk out of it in an unstoppable state.

AND the girls themselves have fun because I was the only guy who’d approach them sober, fun, charming, ballsy, spiking their emotions, teasing them, etc. that early in the night. I basically get their night started. So it’s win/win/win for everyone. This is spreading value. 🙂

‘You’ll find that a lot of Natural alphas won’t cold approach, but will HAPPILY jump in when YOU cold approach and try to take over your set and block you out with their body-language and keep the girl’s attention from you etc. lol I call this Vulture Game. It’s annoying but it’s funny because the underlying reason for it is that they’re too chickenshit to approach.’

Solid stuff, inspiring even. I like how you don’t let potential mental setbacks stall you out during the set and instead keep charging forward. Several times in your writeup I could see myself getting into a negative thought process and derailing things, a personal hurdle.

Quick note from my own experience, the guys you’re hanging out with can really be a huge influence in either direction. I have too much experience with losers who huddle together in the bar talking only to each other and if one of us dares speak to a girl & gets shot down, the group makes fun of him for the rest of the night. Such self-defeating bullshit. However, by contrast I do have one true friend who watched me get shot down hard at the gym and he hasn’t busted on me once for it.

Of course, what others think shouldn’t be important at all, but it’s still so much better if you’re out with guys who get how this works and support each other rather than acting like defeated betas. Before someone points out the obvious – yes, I have so much experience hanging with losers because I was one myself.

“I have too much experience with losers who huddle together in the bar talking only to each other and if one of us dares speak to a girl & gets shot down, the group makes fun of him for the rest of the night. Such self-defeating bullshit. However, by contrast I do have one true friend who watched me get shot down hard at the gym and he hasn’t busted on me once for it. ”

This is HUGE, especially when you’re starting out. Even now, one of my social circles has a lot of negative guys in it…they’re all super alpha and Naturals and shit, but they don’t cold-approach, only warm-approach, and they love to talk shit all night and tool eachother for getting shot down.

They’re nice dudes overall, would give you the shirt off their backs, BUT when it comes to women, it’s a competition to them and survival of the fittest, and their attitude is completely detrimental to my making progress and having a fun night. So when I go out with them, I just go out to drink and dick around.

The nights I know I’ll make the most progress and achieve some personal goals etc. are the nights when I’m out with my supportive friends who all talk eachother up and literally we’ll say stuff like “man, I feel bad for the other guys in the bar with us there, we’re too good looking, fuck!” to eachother and laugh off blowouts etc. with eachother and encourage eachother to push through bad headspaces.

It’s really important, especially when you’re new, to be selective of who you hang out. It’s 1000x better to go out solo even if it’s scary as fuck at 34, or even go out with one lame buddy who’s not good with girls but has a positive attitude and will approach with you now and then, than to go out with negative people who will keep you down crabs-in-a-bucket style and don’t WANT you to get better than them.

I’ve literally told friends of guys who are working on learning game “look man, you gotta’ quit talking shit to him about this ’cause he’s pretty serious about it and it’s important to him, and there’s a point where he’s going to cut all the negative people out of his life and only want to be around people who support him…if you want to still be his buddy down the road, you gotta’ get on the positive side of that line.”

What’s weird is that the worst guys for me to be around -are- the AFC/beta types. Like, the naturals I hang out with will try and tool me/test me at any chance they get….but, they give value. I mean, as one of them put it “you know why I give you a hard time, scray? cause who gives a fuck what I think. Honestly. Who gives a fuck, man?”

The AFC/Beta/Greater Beta types are stuck in blue pill thinking, so they’re so desperate for value (without knowing it) that they will try and tool me (they see ‘o short guy, I can -BEAT- him yaaa’). But they’re so miserable, and it’s plain to see now. They eagerly laugh and support those who are high value, because they are desperately trying to gain value. They put down so-called ‘friends’ at any opportunity because they are trying to gain value. And they take take take value — they never have anything of their own going on. They’re often stuck in shitty cycles in their lives — alcohol, weird horrible relationship shit — that they will often try to justify or portray as “cool.”

But ya, I feel you man. It’s kind of shitty lol. At the same time, it becomes easier to see who a quality person is and who a quality person isn’t.

Nice work man. Funny how just “stirring the pot” and getting out there to initiate conversations with strangers makes you stand out (I’ll get to my theory on this in a minute). I have a lot of boys like the ones you described who are basically social and well put together guys, but ultimately they’re only going to take what comes easy to them. I’m generalizing but I would guess most of their hookups are social circle based with only a few bar hookups with randoms here and there. Rarely do they do the initiating (like your friends in the story) so their experience with anything above an 8.5 is very limited if at all.

Re the 8.5 approach: What I’m realzing now is that so much of game is just being DIFFERENT than what is a normal part of a girls daily routine. Not “better” than the next guy (better looking, richer, etc.) but different. Girls just want “different” in some form. Much like going to a fancy ass chocolate store and trying all of the exotic types. It’s the story and the experience of tasting each one that is exciting. She can settle down with her favorite flavor later on, but if she’s young and hot then she’s buying lots of different types. I guess as PUA ninja jedi masterminds that we are, we’re just letting em know where the chocolate they wanna try. We know they ALL have the sweet tooth, we got the satisfaction.

She clearly got a kick out of your line and intrigued for more (haha I’m stealing that btw..I like the dramatic pause coupled with a joke direction I didn’t see coming) because she doesn’t see that a lot. In truth, the reality for girls 8.5 and above is that they either have to eventually make it really easy for guys like your buds who don’t approach (moreso in social circle situs) or the guys that do are a) nervous (like your buddy) or b) too much. RARELY do they get approached by guys like us who know how to ride middle and they can get swept up in it. Guys like us who are out hustling and practicing all the time so it comes across as a fun experience she chooses to be a part of instead of weird, serious or ramrodded down her throat. My experience definitely matches yours with these girls. Being direct works great when you are completely open and not caring if she stays and talks or breaks and walks.

But overall I wanted to chime in and say nice job to you for hustling. Like you I notice that the more I crush my self image, the more consistent I am getting.

Had a similar experience recently going out with a group of guys that invited me to watch a UFC fight, which is not really my thing however I find it quite comical after a few beers that guys would dedicate their lives to getting in a ring and trying to snap each others limbs for money, so of course I accepted the invite.

[WARNING: You are entering a long ass field report to show the benefits of crushing self image to go farther that most in life. Read at your own peril lol cause it’s long]

Same type scenario as yours, cool guys, get chicks through social circle mainly, hanging out drinking and bullshitting. Commenting on the hotties as the walk by but probably not going to initiate a conversation as risking failure in front of 8 of your friends might be…well…risky lol.

Then there’s me, who’s got the faith and enthusiasm of a mexican cowboy searching for El Dorado — my poosy palace of gold is right there in front of me and I just have to take the first step.

WARM UP TIME: I don’t think much anymore, just do. RSDJulien made a great point recently that “you need to get your actions ahead of your thoughts. That’s basically being in ‘state'”. To me it’s this that can make or break the night, outgoing vs. reclused in your head.

TIME TO CRUSH THAT IMAGE: I’m always looking for opportunities to be free and just talk shit freely because it helps me so much when it’s gametime (for me, when i decide it’s time to be a shark and get the job done on an 8 or above, as I’m tired of messing with anything lower especially when my current city is flooded with really hot girls). Being around these ballbusting friends, I knew the best choice would be to get on a roll so that if and when girls were in my vicinity, I would be ready to roll. In front of our table of 8-10 fratlike guys and standing about 2 feet away at the bar watching an undercard bout are 2 lezzies that aren’t the late nite Cinemax types but rather what would happen if Janice Soprano had two girls, shaved their heads and got neck tats. Two girls with the bodies of a pear. God bless ’em, they had hearts of gold and were fun to talk to. I butt in between them “Ok, right now, who do YOU have and who do YOU have” (referring to the fight). They are big fans and both loved the same fighter so of course I took the other one and told them that theirs looked like a pussy who couldn’t break a taillight with a baseball bat. This ensued a jokingly heated convo back and forth over the course of the 10 minute fight and the enitre time, the boys were joking to each other “Look at who he’s spitting game at hahahahaha” and I would flick my tounge like I wanted to go down on them, which made my buddies laugh even more. Shortly later my two new lezzy friends we’re leaving, we high fived and I told them to behave themselves.

Those two leave and immediately it begins. “Dude those girls were disgusting are you really trying to fuck them??” “Omg I can’t believe you did that” as they sit there and give each other cringing looks of “how embarressing” Now, from my experience I know a few things: 1) these guys are ultimately saying all of this from a place of insecurity and 2) by giving their commentary on the situation they are attempting to broadcast something about themselves–that they are NOT the kind of guys who would do something like that. NEVER when this happens do I get mad, pissy or thrown off my game because I know the ultimate score and I know how to get shit done. These (or any) guys trying to get under my skin is akin to throwing a bouncy ball onto the concrete…it’s just never gonna make it through.

And on top of that, most of these guys are my boys and if anything, I sorta feel sorry for them that they can’t do it like me. I see underneath the vineer and I know how the sausage is made lol.

I respond with making a V with my fingers and flicking my tongue through it to just to gross them out and make them laugh. Whatever their attempt was to put me in check didn’t work, and now it’s like “Ok whatever you’re weird” and we go back to talking about other random shit. Nobody is mad (at least not me). Now I’m on fire–I’m witty, willing to say whatever to whoever, and my actions are WAY ahead of my thoughts. Totally in “state.”

And WHAT do you know, guess who comes up and stands in the exact place that my two lezzy friends did?!? Enter: Brunette8.5 and Blonde8. Both taller than me. No hesitation and loud liek I’m “fake mad” and getting onto them with authority “Hey salt and pepper you’re blocking the TV, WTF is wrong with you?!?” Said with with a grin that I’m obviously fucking with them. They look at each other and start busting out laughing and are like “OMG nobody has ever called us that ahahahahaha.” I lightly grab them below the elbow and move each of them exactly one inch apart lol and tell them “ok better. who are you? Actually just you (facing the brunette) you’re a little more straight laced (I’m now no-look lightly swatting the blonde away like she’s not welcome here….copyright, the Neg and Swat) nice to see you how are you?” Blonde tries to chime in with her joke “Oh wow so I’m like crooked-laced or something to you, huh?” me: “Hey it’s not a bad thing the world needs all types to spin, right?” Blonde, intrigued and smiling “I”m [name].” We all introduce ourselves and i point to the two stools and say “sit” and then back to the blonde I look at her and point to the one closest and she says “Why?” and I say “Because I”m talking.” and point. She smiles and sits down.

I made the choice as soon as I saw them to pick the blonde over the brunette because, at the moment, I have a compulsive fetish for blondes with nice hips. I happen to notice out of the corner of my eye at the spectacle I’ve just created. Bros to my left, bros to my right, waitresses even…everyone is sort of staring and looking over trying to figure out how that just happened. lol

I continue talking to the blonde in a small isolated spot because I positioned her with her back to the rest of the group and facing me. Standard convo, I’m cracking jokes and she’s laughing and having a good time. Meanwhile, the brunette is getting hit up by at least 6 of the hard dicks sitting at my table like rabid dogs lol. Oh well, I try to provide to the needy when I can.

And then it happened….THE BRO-MOG SHOWS UP. One of the guys that was with our group (and that I didn’t know all that well, pretty boy who was pretty drunk) came up and put his hand on my shoulder and in a mild slur says “You gonna introduce me to your friend?” (Yea faggot that’s exactly what I would love to do can’t think of anything better). me “Who, her? She’s a slut.” “OMG shut up” *punch in the arm* Interloper to her: “I can’t believe he would say that.” I give her a look like “OMG this dude is so weird” and she is clearly thinking the same. So for the next 30 seconds or so he’s engaging her and I let it go on a bit as she glances towards me with “save me” eyes and since I’m too big of an asshole I let it persist a little bit lol. Then he pulls out the ULTIMATE bro-mog move….SHOTS. “Hey let’s do a shot! Hey man you want one too?” I give her a look then back to him “Nah we’re fine bro but thanks!” Shoulder pat and now I’m back on a topic with her as he stands there for a second then slumps off…face not saved lol

Night is winding up and since none of the guys I came with had much game with the brunette she’s now talking to some other guys and girls that came to meet up with them. All of my friends had trailed out before now so I pull her out and say “Hey afterparty.” She says she can’t because that’s her ride and they live like 15 miles out. I try to run a quick iso and then pull so I say “Hey let’s go outside.” We do, she wants me to take her phone, I try to pull again, she say she wants to but she really can’t, I pull her in for a makeout, black guys walk by like “damn what the fuck even short guys getting it”. I make one last attempt and she’s deadlocked but wants to meet up this week.

So…no bang but more than the guys I came with are wiling to put themselves out there to get. The next day I meet up with them and they are like “Dude you were the fucking man last night bro that chick was fucking hot!” yada yada yada.

Big deal to me maybe a year and half ago. Now it’s like a Tuesday to me lol..

thx bro. What used to fuck me up was when I would decide “Ok tonight I def need to be ‘witty’ because that’s what it was like when I was ‘on’ before so I’ve gotta get out and do this!” And then once I got out I would concern myself with how I was doing. “Am I measuring up better or worse than 2 nights ago?” Usually this would lead to lukewarm at best sets and tons of brushoffs and me further into my head tryign to sort it out. I was in a narcissistic headspace where I was comparing past results to present, trying to break it all down AS I was attempting to do it. lol total mindfuck I was doing to myself. What I realize now and has helped me tremendously is a) trying to construct a super smooth interaction is always a horrible idea and b) every one of my pickups has a messy structure to it that in no way dictates the fate of the interaction. Messy is good.

Yea regarding the short thing…I just clearly don’t give a flying fuck to the point where I don’t even think about it much. Even when people bring it up, it takes just a second to remember “Oh yea people buy into that notion that +/- 4 or 5 inches matters I forgot lol”. When a girl completely blows me off because height is a major issue to her (i’d estimate 1 in 5 girls do this, and oddly enough it mostly comes from girls my height or slightly shorter) I’m literally unaffected because a) I already know some girls just aren’t gonna date a short dude and b) way more girls than most people would normally think do.

As you saw with your 8.5 she quickly was suprised and intruiged “Hmmm me likey look at this guy I wouldn’t expect manning up on me, what else ya got huh?”

I guess sometimes I do get tested probbalby more than the average taller guy who society prescribes the role as “top guy we expect to crush the most pussy” but who in actuality probably doesn’t. When AMOG attempts happen I usually a) can see them coming a mile away, b) I know why they are happening, and c) realize most are lame attempts to one up me that get no where lol. Occasionally I’ll get outplayed or maybe logistics just line up better for the other guy but I like that too because I enjoy sparring verbally. Sorta matches my edgy jerk persona just a bit lol

nah, i think it’s more like he runs into amogs so often that he already knows what responses work well with them. he doesn’t have to ‘think too much’ about it, any more than you have to ‘think too much’ about breathing in and out.

Michael Jordan didn’t just know how to shoot a basketball…he learned it step by step, put in hours of practice, learned all the little dynamics that the half-assing-it guys don’t figure out, put in more hours of practice, and then when he was playing for the Bulls he just “knew” how to shoot it and didn’t have to think of any of that.

You are attempting to square a circle. No pain, no gain. The “be happy” part cannot come “now”; by its nature it must come later. If you are satisfied during the “journey,” you’re doing it wrong. Satisfaction = no motivation for pursuit.

It’s not the “shooting basketballs” part that was tough. The game is the reward. It was the 10,000 hours in the gym and the thousands of drills on the court that are the opposite of fun. The only good thing about those monotonous exercises are the unguaranteed potential that they might pay off.

Unless you’re a “virtue is its own reward” type, which you don’t seem to be.

At any rate, your post above is perfectly fine. It’s the one below (“Be happy now”) that’s lacking, where you expound the rationale behind what you believe motivates greatness.

@matt. how unhappy are you, matt, that you have to insist that everyone else CANNOT be happy until “later” or that the journey must be dissatisfying?

i think that’s your catholicism talkin’. i am living proof that you can be happy even while you slog through skill development. if i can do it, there must be at least 1-2 other people in the world that can as well.

Ya man, you’re nuts. The journey is half the fun. If you can’t find a way to enjoy the process then do something else. Even gettin blown out by girls is fun, who cares?

Life is short…society’s gameplan, of being miserable till you retire and get to finally enjoy life when you can’t get your dick up anymore, and then have a heart attack a year later? That’s a recipe for a pretty depressing life, to me.

If one’s motivation is to be happy now, he will never do the difficult and monotonous exercises necessary for greatness. You don’t eat what you want and never exercise and then go run a sub-four marathon. Nor do you fool yourself and pretend a strict regimen of diet and exercise constitutes “happiness” along the “journey.” Happiness requires satisfaction, and satisfaction is the antonym of motivation.

If your “journey” demands no sacrifice from you, then you are journeying to an easy destination with small rewards. Perhaps you are motivated by small rewards, and that is your entire understanding of satisfaction? But that is a problem with you and your fatherless existence more than it is intelligent advice for young men searching for meaning.

“Happiness” is an ideal for women and slaves, and that is only because it constitutes a reprieve from the perceived miseries over which they obsess. Greatness is the ideal for men. But greatness is a concept frivolous minds like yours mock, because, I am forced to conclude, it is a goal unavailable to you.

Now, since I think you actually do believe in greatness, but call it by other names, this is more a product of your failed self-examination than it is a dissent. You think you have to make the “4 stages of learning shit” sound fun rather than arduous, when men like Jordan and Phelps (and the potential great men in this audience) achieve greatness precisely because the journey is not pleasant and requires the sacrifice of happiness in order to blow past the “half-assing-it guys [who] don’t figure [it] out.” Men seek hardship and challenge, not happy funtime. Do you not know any men?

If you just agree that exploring these depths is not your forte — not even explicitly, but simply via silence — we can get along handsomely. At least YaReally has a positive contribution to make beyond his reflexive scoffing, whereas the other one has nothing but increasingly insipid reaction.

‘Happiness requires satisfaction, and satisfaction is the antonym of motivation.’

You learn to derive pleasure from taking massive action to improve your life — from the fact that you are being productive with your time. Satisfaction with newfound efficiency. So yeah, you are still unsatisfied with whatever end goal you have in sight, but you find new satisfaction through the mere act of trying to satisfy yourself — a stop-gap until the real “satisfaction” starts to set in.

I believe we all agree that learning game — just like any other skill — requires some serious fortitude (and ya, I’m mostly talking about the non-AI, non social circle, cold hard approach).

“Nor do you fool yourself and pretend a strict regimen of diet and exercise constitutes “happiness” along the “journey.””

That’s weird, cause I could point you to the bodybuilding.com forums where there are thousands of guys who love dieting and exercising. They love the sweat dripping down and the sore muscles after a good workout and finding new recipes for clean healthy delicious food that fits their macros. The trick to happiness is taking something you enjoy doing and figuring out how to make money off of doing it. You don’t have to slave away at something shitty for the chance to be happy down the road. You’re thinking about this too binary, like “if some aspect of the journey isn’t considered fun by everyone at all times, then it can’t possibly be fun”.

Do you think Tiger Woods just randomly picked golf? You think he was like “I think i’ll be the best at something, ehh, let’s go with golf, that won’t be an inconvenient hobby at all”? That he would’ve been just as good at swimming or basketball? He loved playing it and became amazing at it because he loved playing it.

Do you have any hobbies? Talents? Or are you one of those people who just wasn’t really gifted at anything? Because that would explain your aspergy view on happiness…I’ve met people like that who just don’t really have any direction and I know it’s harder for them to understand what it’s like for passionate people who pour their energy into something. Actually, that would explain a lot about you lol I’m not even talking shit, I legit just kind of feel bad for you. Life must just be a constant battle with that mentality.

@matt. you’re trying to justify your absolutism, but failing miserably. talk about straw-men… you just constructed an entire metropolis, complete with straw-highrises, straw-fire-departments, and straw-city-hall, etc. i can’t speak for anyone else, but i’m far from fatherless and even further from lacking drive. i would wager (but am unable to prove without revealing my identity) that i’ve accomplished much more than you have. and i’m talking about real, quantifiable accomplishment, not ranting on message boards and developing a loyal, albeit mongoloid-esque, following. that is not real power. that does not translate into dollars and cents or even influence. i know you believe you’re going to change the world, but you are not positioned to do so. you will end up like greg. in your 50s, holding onto some unrealistic notion about HOW THE WORLD SHOULD BE GOSHDARNIT. it isn’t too late to change, bro.

Do you have any hobbies? Talents? Or are you one of those people who just wasn’t really gifted at anything? Because …

i would wager (but am unable to prove without revealing my identity) that i’ve accomplished much more than you …

Boys arguing literally like women do. Unable to handle the substance, they focus on what possible deficiencies could cause a man disagree with them, rather than making a solid case for agreement.

Women are excellent at judgments based on personal observation: their discriminating eye was made for that kind of assessment in order to find a mate worthy for her scarce gamete. Men, conversely, excel at detachment and abstraction; they can separate an idea from the purveyor of that idea.

The key factor here is smoldering resentment. They just can’t get over certain people, no matter what they say. If CH had said the same thing (which he does, in Commandment Whatever about women, “your mission,” and priority), they’d see the wisdom in it immediately. But since it comes from a source they can’t quite cut down to size, they are forever engaging in casuistry to emphasize, in the face of all evidence and rhetoric, that the things we agree about are actually differences. Because if they ever acknowledged anything Matt King said as wise, they’d have to *gasp* reconsider the entire mythology they spent so long advertising as explanatory of everything.

Anyway, I learned long ago to quit the “discussion” once it became clear the interlocutor ceased even pretending to look for a conciliatory synthesis over the controversy, rather than endless personal assertions, as if those ever proved anything.

I’m not trying to point you your deficiencies, you insecure dipshit lol.

I’m saying if you don’t have things you’re passionate about that you pour energy into specifically because you enjoy the process of doing those things regardless of how good you are and you also enjoy the journey aside from the end result, then it would make complete sense that you have this aspergy view on happiness, because you literally don’t understand the emotions behind why people enjoy doing things they aren’t perfect at and why Bruce Lees body looked the way it did not because he wanted to impress everyone but because he legitimately loved pushing himself and his limits.

Don’t worry, your deficiencies are plain for all to see as it is, I don’t have to go out of my way to point them out lol. All I’m doing here is looking for an explanation for why your viewpoint is so bleak and shitty…and I guess you explained why by not answering the question.

The question then becomes: how DO you properly tool a theoretical YaReally right back?

I’m thinking something along the lines of: “wow man, you really put a lot of thought and imagination into my physique, workout regiment and diet. that’s pretty weird. do you always notice/compliment other dudes on their physique? strange.”

I mean, I’m still working on it, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. As for what you put there….I wouldn’t say that — it gives too many fucks.
The failsafe for me is just “reaffirm identity.”

“blah blah blah witty witty shit about how gay it is to be fit”
(can’t think of anything tight to say back…default to failsafe) “ya, I really love getting fit and dieting.”

See Cryo above re laconic stoicism. “The key to overcoming this sort of AMOG is to just respond with something witty and WAY less wordy.” “Less wordy” being more important than “witty.”

Either way, the best response, if the hardest to pull off, is to enlist the opponent onto your team. When you do a straight-up pissing contest you will just as likely encourage him to represent himself out of pride for much longer than is strictly necessary, rather than being the zen master who subtly indicates, “Relax, broheim, there’s enough pussy to go around for all of us, so put on your big boy pants and think strategically.”

There’s two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one, “Hey pop, let’s say we run down there and fuck one of them cows.”

The older one says: “No son. Lets walk down and fuck ’em all.”

— from the movie Colors

Men fighting men should always be the last resort. Bros before hos, always. This is a war between the sexes, not a civil-war of brother against brother. It’s the bitches (plus alcohol) who stir up enmity among us. You have to keep focus on who the enemy is and who the enemy isn’t.

If you have trouble remembering, then at least keep in mind that women want to be conquered by a superior force, not aided by a traitor to his own sex. (Forget what they claim with words, this is what they want.) They don’t want a sniveling beta-orbiter white-knight on their side, “tooling” his brothers for the girls’ sake. They want a leader with the laconic wherewithal to organize an almighty power-tooling of her and her sisters.

Dudes are more impressed by the quippy AMOG one-liner. Women giggle, but they also know that verbal facility (a woman’s skill) is not always the best indicator of manliness. Dudes think punching a snarkbag in the face is “tryhard” or overreacting or insecure. But that’s the rationalization of a snarkbag who just tasted the truth of the real pecking order. Women are tickled by jesters and clowns, but their pulsing vagine want the men who are capable of murderous violence.

“The question then becomes: how DO you properly tool a theoretical YaReally right back?”

Can’t tell you that, or I’ll never get laid! …lol.

But ya, Scray’s post on it is solid, so is the other guy here who was like “just say Thanks man!” (tho I replied to that about why that might not be enough in bar/club situations)

I actually wrote about how to defend against my shit way back but fuck me if I can find it in my giant-ass archive lol.

The jist is just don’t react butt-hurt, kill me with kindness, and try to get me to react butt-hurt to you.

“wow man, you really put a lot of thought and imagination into my physique, workout regiment and diet. that’s pretty weird. do you always notice/compliment other dudes on their physique? strange.”

lol this would throw a lot of guys off so it’s solid because you’re turning the frame around and playing off their insecurity of worrying that people will judge them as being gay, so a lot of them will qualify themselves like “what? no man, I’m no fag I just–” and now they’re reacting to you. This is where you’d grab the girls’ attention and walk off with them…they’ll come with you because you have the value. So good stuff for the average AMOG.

But it wouldn’t work on me, because this is actually a good example of what the article is talking about…you’re applying value to “not risking people thinking I’m gay” and using that to make me feel insecure, because you assume I put the same value on “not risking people thinking I’m gay” (like the guy I just described). But I don’t put value on that because I don’t care what people think, and on top of that, by feeding me that line you just inadvertently TOLD me what you put value on because you thought I would put value on it too…so in a way, you gave me the key to “defeating” you because I have ZERO investment in “not risking people thinking I’m gay” but for you to bring that up to use against me at ALL means that you likely have greater-than-zero investment in that.

Ergo, it would look something like this:

You: “wow man, you really put a lot of thought and imagination into my physique, workout regiment and diet. that’s pretty weird. do you always notice/compliment other dudes on their physique? strange.”

Me: “Only when I want to suck their cock. I mean, not in a GAY way, just a little tongue action. This chick (point to one of the girls we’re fighting over) is thinking the same thing, I can tell. (she laughs because she probably was thinking that at some point lol) God, why are you such a pervert, girl? (as I wrap an arm around her waist and get in her space and turn her body away from you so her back is to you) How many cocks have you sucked tonight? How many! I bet it’s at LEAST 10.”

You: (fade into the background and watch me make out with this girl, and settle for her uglier friend if I don’t walk them both away from you)

All I’m doing here is taking what you fed me, using “agree & amplify” to take it back up over the top past the point you’re comfortable with (because again you told me that not risking seeming gay was a weak spot for you), and then when you’re stunned for a split second by the fact that someone would actually SAY something like that (because who the fuck says that? lol), I switch focus to the girls, pump their emotions, and get them away from you while I’m the center of attention and you’re left in my dust.

For you to counter THAT would be pretty tough, because you would have to start by even getting the attention back on you again and I won’t let that happen…so you would need some SERIOUSLY tight game or some massively high default value to take them back, and even then it would be an epic battle between us because my internals are solid and I’ve done this kind of thing a lot.

On the flip side, remember that I’m only saying the “you order salad at a restaurant” stuff because you came into my set and tried to take my girls, which is a hostile move to me and earns that. So if instead of trying to tool me AGAIN, you instead realized you were playing with fire and backed off and was just like “lol thanks man, either way these girls are lucky they’ve clearly met the two best looking guys in the bar”, I’d read that you’re making peace and being a cool guy and I’d drop back down into friendly mode too, and talk you up to the girls and you and I would take those girls home together and high-five over the breakfast they cook us and probably become good buddies that go pick up chicks together.

If a guy is cool by default, and I’m entering HIS set, I’m just friendly and fun and spread value to him. Or even if a guy enters my set, but he’s cool about it and seems like a nice dude and he’s not specifically trying to go for the girl I’m after, or like if he backs off that girl when he realizes I had dibs, then hey, that’s cool, I’ll build up his value to the girls and we’ll all have a blast.

You only use this stuff when it’s necessary, and you only use as much as you need to to stop the other guy’s shit behavior. It’s more self-defense than aggressive attacking.

I always look at it like I’d rather everyone just has a good fun time together and we all have value…but if YOU want to turn it into a fight, we can do that, and I’ll fire a warning shot to let you know you bit off more than you can chew, and if you back off cool we’re all good again, but if you keep fighting, we can do that, and I WILL win, but I’d rather we didn’t get into that at all because c’mon, let’s all just have fun and bang some bitches lol

The reason I have a lot of experience with guys trying this on me is because if you look at me I don’t appear to have any real objective value. I’m not a hideous freak or anything, but I’m average height, average looks, average body, average clothes (I don’t peacock), average job, etc. I actually have to work extra hard to get bouncers to remember me because I look like every other random Joe.

On top of that, I go to all sorts of venues where I don’t “belong”. High-class places with women dressed to the nines and guys in suits, shit-hole rocker bars where everyone’s tattooed up and hardcore, college bars where everyone’s younger than me, country bars where I’m clearly the only city-boy and not as manly as them, etc.

So when the guys in these venues see me talking to girls, by default they think that I’m going to be easy to take the girls from and they roll up real confident that they’re going to just steamroll me because I mean, they have an Armani suit and she’s dressed to the nines, of course she’s looking for a rich doctor like him…or they used to ride bulls and I don’t even have callouses on my hands, of course that girl is going to want a REAL man like them, etc. etc.

So they try to tool me as they enter the set and I fire off a warning shot to let them know that my looks are deceiving. Some of them recognize that and back off and it’s all good from there. But a lot of them are cocky and develop egos and can’t stand the thought of a plain average guy like me coming into “their” territory and getting “their” girls, especially “winning” the girls FROM them…so they try to go head to head with me, but they are just wholly unequipped to deal with what I’m throwing out there.

I’m not the best, I just THOROUGHLY understand these dynamics and I’ve been forced to gain a lot of experience manipulating them, compared to most people.

But remember, allllllllllll of this was learned. Consciously. Through years of going out and approaching sets. I started out as a complete nerd with no social skills.

ugh. i hate when that happens. that’s the next AMOG issue I need to sort out. some dude comes in, tosses 9 sticks of dynamite in the shit, and then the girl turns her head away from me.

it’s like ‘lol….well shit, it seems like im phucked no matter what now. if i say something to him, it seems like im trying to get his attention, and if i say something to her, it calls attention to the fact that i need to get her attention again….’

Ya it’s a bitch and that’s the point of it, is it puts the other guy in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” position.

As far as a solution goes it’s a lot like “what’s the best way to escape a headlock?” “Don’t let yourself end up in one in the first place” lol.

Like if you HAD to, you could throw some hail Mary’s out. Stuff like opening a set of girls right beside them and running massive chick crack material on them so they all burst out laughing and your previous girls notice this. You could try merging a set in via the friend the dynamite guy isn’t talking to, forcing an interrupt. You could stealth AMOG the guy to the friend (check my archives for details on this) by talking to the friend off to the side and getting her laughing and attracted then dropping an “it’s too bad your friend is stuck talking to that creepy guy, he hit on my friends last week…I’m sure he’s a nice enough dude but I dunno, I was having fun talking to Sarah…not many girls can make me laugh like that.” and lowering his value while raising yours and instigating her cockblocking him for you because she doesn’t want Sarah to miss out on a high-value guy etc. If your vibe is right for it, you could even forcefully bring her back to you. I’ve literally just gone “HEY.” and turned the girl to me then bent down and picked her up over my shoulder and walked off, but this is something you have to do instantly when you realize buddy is a threat, before she’s more attracted to him than you, and then get her away from him and facing away from him and spike her temp so she forgets about him. There’s also letting him build her buying temp up, then coming in and stealing her while her temp is high which is more for drunk horny girls after midnight but is totally do-able…she transfers her buying temp onto you from him. Tyler has an old article about this somewhere.

But these are all hail-Mary’s and rolling the dice.

IDEALLY what you want to do is be more aware of your surroundings and avoid this situation entirely, like the headlock. Learn to spot when guys are going to approach, and learn to deduce quickly how much game they have, lead your girls to another part of the bar before the guy even gets to your group, win the friends over in advance so they’ll help you cockblock, have good wingmen who can interrupt and keep the other guy busy for you, etc.

This will come with field experience but it’s the same Reticular Activation System concept as bouncers/cops develop where they can tell which guys in a bar are angry and which can fight and which to keep an eye on etc. You’re just tuning your RAS to game related things.

A lot of guys have talked smack about oh just be cool and no one will mess with you bro and oh this AMOG thing is for pussied blah blah and oh just don’t do anything only pussies react like that.

The reality is: if you aren’t dealing with AMOGs then you aren’t cold-approaching the hottest girls in the bar. No, you’re not getting AMOGed when you pick up that 6/10 social circle girl that has a crush on you and has already told her friends she likes you. Way to go champ, you’re batting a thousand.

But some of us are going for the top shelf pussy and the other guys who think they have dibs on that top shelf will try to mark their territory, ESPECIALLY if you’re cold-approaching and not from their social circle…you can stand there like James Bond on a warm approach in a low energy environment, but in a fun chaotic energy-filled club/bar, your top shelf girl is walking away with the shinier object because she has a dozen James Bonds chasing her everywhere she goes and you don’t stand out.

Outcome independence. Once you achieve zen indifference, you’re pretty much untouchable. You won’t give a shit if some PUA is trying to one-up you, because you know there’s hundreds of other girls for the taking, and a bunch blowing up your phone right this minute.

And the best part is that countering these tactics becomes second nature once you no longer have any ego investment in the Game. I’ve been following the PUA community ever since it was a semi-newsgroup called fastseduction.com. I started off as a lesser beta and it took me awhile to get my feet off the ground. The turning point for me was when I concentrated on developing inner game. I internalized the belief that I was a man of value and character, regardless of my low notch count.

If you can shed the loneliness and isolation of going home alone every night, and actually reframe it into something positive, you WILL be rewarded for your efforts. It happened for me when I started pretending that I had girls in my life. I actually started to believe it, and this manifested in how I interacted at bars with HBs and AMOGs. The rest was downhill, and now I’m at the point where I actually do have HBs on call who would die for me. I can stroll into any venue without a care in the world and it shows.

The worst thing you can do is approach this mechanically, because you’ll never reach that state of independence wherein you have a solid identity. You will always be vulnerable. Take the core tenets of Game, construct a positive masculine identity inline with your core beliefs and don’t ever apologize for it.

I guess it depends on the guy’s mood or something. I’ve had guys try to knock me down in a subtle way like that for being “ripped” or whatever and I just usually say “I only eat mayonnaise sandwiches” or “I don’t work out, I was born this way” in a real disinterested, condescending tone then ignore them.

Good stuff, this is a solid way to handle it and you handle it this way without really thinking because the notion that another guy could knock you down about your body is retarded to you.

The only catch, if we’re in a set with girls in a club, is that if you don’t have any game to follow that up with to keep the girls, I’ll keep going while you stand there feeling alpha, and I’ll try to get them away from you ASAP lol But most guys don’t have the conscious PUA skills to do that or understand that you’re a threat.

YaReally plays Is, where Matthew King plays Ought. The problem you face is that the Is that presently is is historically odd and looking to be quite fragile. When the Is catches up with the Ought, the Matthews of the restored civilization will treat y’all sneaky fuckers to blanket parties, at best.

these matts and gregs are so far-removed from reality, it actually, literally isn’t funny. actual power lies in the same hands it always has. it isn’t js. it isn’t blacks. it lies in the hands of monied white people. the fact that you don’t know/realize this just proves how far removed you are from actual spheres of power and influence.

“wow man you’re ripped that awesome. You must spend all day in the gym hey, you must be going for a 2am workout after the bar tonight to stay that jacked lol I wish I had that kind of dedication but I’m a lazy fuck (pat my belly and make the girls rub it). I love good food too much, I have to get a steak when I’m at a restaurant, I’d be embarrassed to order a salad lol you got way more balls than me man”

I mean yea he is taking himself more seriously but don’t high value guys do that.

He could have easily been like
” Going to the gym isn’t for everyone” = Alpha

Wouldn’t have messed up my frame, in fact you would have just validated me.

Too be fair you did say

“like not being impressed about the thing they’re trying to impress myself and/or the girls with, or downplaying what they’re proud of to the girls so the girls stop valuing it as well.”

Witch if he had any sense at all he wouldn’t give a fuck about what you thought of him.
Also he could of flipped it into making you seem reactive to his success like a hater for not have a 6 pack abs and drawn the girls into his frame by believing he’s the shit.

It all depends on the person hence you were talking about a low value guy.

Right, this is all calibration. The catch is that probably 90% of the time, whatever attribute the person is displaying is the attribute they earned BECAUSE at one point they were insecure about that attribute and decided they needed to earn it, and most of the time there are still tiny little niggling doubts in the back of their head about that attribute.

So like a guy with a 6-pack is likely to be a guy who was insecure about his looks and dedicated himself to working out, so if I drop a comment that makes him feel like he looks perfect or like there’s more value in being fat than having a 6-pack etc., it triggers his old insecurities and throws him off.

It’s very very very rare for guys to be confident in all categories of life…if he’s confident in his looks, he might be insecure about his money. If he’s confident in his looks and money, he might be insecure about his success with women. etc. etc. there’s usually SOMETHING to fuck with and meeting a lot of people teaches you that calibration.

Again to me this is all negative energy and shitty in general and not how I like to spend my night. I’d rather compliment his body and be like that’s badass dude, I wish I had that kind of discipline and ask him for some workout tips and set him up with one of the girls I’m talking to and we all go home together. That’s a way more fun positive night.

This stuff only comes out when the other guy provokes it. It’s like learning martial arts. You should use it for self-defense, not to be a bully.

lol this is a good response. This is the kind of response where I’d laugh and then just befriend you and we’d take the girls home together, because it tells me you’re confident and don’t take yourself seriously, that you’re a fun dude, and it’s not hostile or attacking me again, so in my mind you’re extending an olive branch of peace and I’d way rather be in a positive interaction than a negative fight.

i don’t think amoging the ripped guy is always a good idea. Kind of looks butthurt. At best in that situation you should ignore the guys physique as if it is not significant, or better yet have a physique that rivals it. Women don’t want men that notice when/if/that other men are better than them. Even less if they give away they are butthurt over it. I’m in good shape and if someone came at me with that i wouldn’t be impressed one bit. Most guys in shape, provided they have a few brain cells, would think of some kind of comeback, which would carry much greater weight, given that they DO actually look better than you. In otherwords if you pull that one off smoothly its totally down to the musclemans lack of game/intelligence, as oppose to the brilliance of your move to point oiut that another man is better than you and try and belittle him for it.

A better Amog would be to down your drink, and challenge the muscleman to an arm wrestle, without consideration for his physique or your levels of intoxication…..and win.

“i don’t think amoging the ripped guy is always a good idea. Kind of looks butthurt.”

That’s right, it’s not ALWAYS a good idea. You calibrate to the guy and the situation lol. This is an art, not a “one size fits all”.

“At best in that situation you should ignore the guys physique as if it is not significant”

This is fine too. Again this is just for if the guy tries to tool you and you want some ammo to buy you enough time to take the girls away. Also you’re technically doing the second thing I described, in not being impressed by the thing he thinks has value.

“or better yet have a physique that rivals it.”

As long as you work on getting the physique because YOU want it because your health and body are important to YOU, and not because you think it’ll get you girls, then ya, that’s cool too. But it doesn’t really make a difference in attraction.

The girls aren’t going “well this guy is fun, but he has 14% bodyfat and this other guy has 16% bodyfat, so I’m going to bang the 14%.” That’s just not a thing that happens except in extreme fetish cases where like, the girl has a weird fetish for the lowest bodyfat she can find…like Jay Cutler has girls who are into his look, but they aren’t in any way the majority and most girls think he looks like a freak.

“Women don’t want men that notice when/if/that other men are better than them.”

Yep, I agree. It doesn’t register in my head that other guys could be better than me, that’s impossible to me. But I AM consciously aware that a guy who better fits SOCIETY’S view of who’s “better” will probably be insecure and reactive about that and it’s a button I can press if I need to.

“Most guys in shape, provided they have a few brain cells, would think of some kind of comeback, which would carry much greater weight, given that they DO actually look better than you.”

Nope. Mental masturbation here. Go out and tool a bunch of guys and see what kind of comebacks you get. Most guys aren’t prepared and can’t think fast and freeze up, and they either back off or get frustrated which turns to anger which turns to wanting to fight you (which is why you back off and befriend them and build their value up again for them, when they realize they’re outmatched).

This is based on field experience. Lots of it.

“A better Amog would be to down your drink, and challenge the muscleman to an arm wrestle, without consideration for his physique or your levels of intoxication…..and win.”

Sure thing. While you two are arm-wrestling, I’ll be asking the girls why the guys here are all roided up with testosterone tonight and telling them they should quit being so hot, it’s making guys fight over them. And then I’ll walk them away from your arm-wrestling match while you compare who has a bigger dick lol

“aw man, no wonder I’m fat, I’m still a virgin. (turn to the girls) Girls, will one of you help me get in shape tonight? I live in my parents’ basement so we’ll have to be quiet, but don’t worry, my cock is only an inch big so you won’t even need to scream. You’ll probably make more noise snoring. (pick the girl giggling the most) Do you snore? I can tell, you totally do. Shit, (pulling her in and turning her away from you so her back is to you) how are we going to have 30 seconds of disappointing sex that leaves you completely unsatisfied tonight at this rate?”

On lots of guys, your line will work. But a good PUA would agree, amplify, then follow it up and work on getting the girls away from you ASAP.

I’m not convinced that AMOGING the muscleman is such a good move. It’ll only work if he’s got no game, in which case nearly any AMOG would work. In fact if he has any half decent response, you’ve just set HIM up as the Alpha, because youv’e noticed something about him that is superior to you. Chicks don’t dig guys that are intimidated or impressed by other guys, which is what you’d most likely give away. Best to just ignore and proceed as if you are the alpha with something good about you, better yet down your drink, and challenge him to an arm wrestle with no regard for his physique or levels of intoxication. Then…..Win. Or if you’re really up on your game you can lose easily and still get the girls. But acting butthurt about a guy looking better than you just doesn’t seem like the way to go.

Besides i think we all know you can be ripped on nothin but pizza and chocolate, besides steak is pretty good for your physique, you can increase lean body mass by eating extra protein alone. Also, This Amog doesn’t really work if the guy just downed 10 beers, dudes a machine and everyone, including the girl likely knows it.

“Besides i think we all know you can be ripped on nothin but pizza and chocolate, besides steak is pretty good for your physique, you can increase lean body mass by eating extra protein alone. Also, This Amog doesn’t really work if the guy just downed 10 beers, dudes a machine and everyone, including the girl likely knows it.”

Too logical. This is mental masturbation. No one gives a shit about any of this except the guys in the bodybuilding Misc forum. ESPECIALLY not girls at the bar/club running on emotions and gina tingles. All that matters is how the girls feel in the moment.

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I suck at verbal warfare and it needs patching up b/c it’s tougher to fight an AMOG’s attacks off when I can’t come up with witty retorts on the spot. It’s not just those scenarios though; sometimes a guy just starts tooling out of the blue. I do try to keep YaReally’s sound advice in mind about how that’s usually just normal bro talk and shouldn’t be taken seriously but when I get ripped on with a good jab and the group’s having a laugh I lose ground when I can’t reply on the spot with something clever. Obviously any women witnessing me get tooled like that write me off but the worst part is that now the guys see I’m an easy mark it starts to avalanche. I’ve experienced it multiple times and I’m trying to learn from the abuse instead of hiding like I used to. I at least don’t respond with butthurt comments or with beta body language anymore but nothing substitutes for having a comeback ready after being ripped in front of the group. There’s that old poker saying about how there’s a sucker at every table and if you can’t spot them it’s you – well, in the past that’s usually me in social circles and I even had to abandon a group of guys I’d known for over five years because I was the punching bag of the group and didn’t have the skills to reverse that dynamic. I know that was running away but I feel like if I’m going to change I need to cut out those people who are going to hold me back. Besides, in hindsight I really did make a lot of socially retarded mistakes with them that I don’t think I’d ever overcome.

I should probably mention I used to pull really attractive g/f’s in high school/college back when it was effortless. I’d learn from others a pretty girl liked me, I’d then talk some to them and next thing I know we’re banging. I had to just be running on looks and luck b/c I was a video game-obsessed introvert with no social skills whatsoever. Looking back my only advantage was that since I found most women and conversation boring in general I never presented a supplicating/beta worship vibe. I was anti-social but also that quiet guy in the back of the classroom that only a few knew had been with many of the more desirable women on campus. Therefore I was thoroughly unprepared for my love life turning on its head post college. I am still a decently good looking guy, not balding or anything yet not that it would matter much, athletic build, dress well, bathe lol etc. so except for maybe presenting too clean cut an appearance I don’t think I’m doing anything to draw negative attention other than what I must be saying. After all while my body language is a work in progress I’ve been following what is taught here. I don’t lean in, I cut out that nervous leg bounce i used to do, I look people in the eyes more, etc. The results have been noticeable, I mean this stuff is for real lol.

I still struggle and an example of a specific remark I’ve encountered multiple times including recently (usually a girl does this though) is to say “I could say something here, but I won’t” while casting an obnoxious sidelong glance to the others. I haven’t nailed down the perfect response to that, any help? What I can come up with either sounds butthurt or too defensive/qualifying. What I’ve tried on the spot is smiling and trying to look amused saying something to the effect of “I’m a big boy I can take it” etc to try and get them to say the comment but they just keep playing like they’re doing me a favor by not deploying this super huge bomb on me lol which is brilliant in a way b/c they probably don’t have such a witty comment in mind to begin with but are tooling me anyways as if they did.

I’ve also had guys make the fool out of me with a good remark and then suddenly slap me on the back and say “I’m just messing with ya” which makes me think I must be showing some sort of butthurt with my body language, only I seriously don’t think I am anymore. I wish I could have someone film me but the only error I’m seeing is I’m stalling trying to come up with a reply and maybe they see I’m tongue-tied and are pulling that finishing move of sorts to go ahead and basically announce their victory to everyone in earshot. What should I be doing there?

I still feel like it’s a minefield out there b/c I’m just out trying to meet some people and try to have fun, working my way up to having women in my social circle again like old times but I never know when I’m suddenly going to be ambushed like that. I’ve come a long way on internal frame and not letting others define my self-view (YaReally commented on this well) and I honestly don’t think I’m showing a response anymore when people come at me, but I can be rock solid internally and the others still see me as a tool when I can’t keep up with the banter.

Now that I’ve typed this out I’m thinking all I really need is just more calibration out in the field taking my lumps until I can get this skill set down. I wasted my twenties with a negative mindset basically hating most people due to racking up shitty social experiences (including the post I made about one that YaReally was responding to) without anything to counterbalance them. It has to be me at fault, I realize that as I’m the only thing in common with all those experiences. My mindset then was that since it was only the undesirable women approaching me anymore it now must be the best I could do and since I didn’t want that for myself (Once you’ve had steak…) I retreated to the usual omega vices. I know now how flawed and self-defeating I had been; I wasted almost a decade of youth.

Anyways this has been way too much talking about myself and I’d never do that in a conversation lol just seeking assistance from those wiser than myself on these matters.

TL;DR I’m working on getting out more but keep getting tooled by guys when I can’t keep up with the repartee.

You are going too directly at the problem when you should be adopting a more Zen Buddhist frame of mind. This is one of the hardest difficulties to overcome because it is also the greatest virtue of white men. We have a nerdlord ability to hyperfocus on an issue and clamp down on the bone like a pit bull until it yields. But in this circumstance you must let go of your grip, and only in letting it go will it yield. That is the most efficient way to thrive amid the fluid estrogen culture you are attempting to (literally and figuratively) penetrate.

YaReally himself is a probably unmatchable exemplar of the hyperfocus culture: cover every contingency, overwhelm with volume, leave no stone unturned, flood the space with options. An infinite if-then flow chart. If A then B, and if not B, then try C, D, E, F, and G. And while you’re trying C through G, think of H, I, J, K, elemenopea.

See, you care about being AMOGged, and Mr. Amog knows you care, and the girls know you care, and you know that they know that you know that they know you care. It’s a vicious cycle that, as advised in the original post, should be diffused at step one: stop giving a shit, even if it takes a mental exercise of lying to yourself. Hence the worship of the Aloof above the virtuous on this site.

Except, as other commenters note, this tactic makes a mockery of actually improving oneself. You can be fat rather than ripped because you can easily fool bimbos with an imitation of confidence that should accompany the outwardly healthy looking man. Except that confidence doesn’t work that way — the skinniest girls think they’re fat, the bodybuilders are often insecure, and the actor can transcend them all by putting on a display of self-assurance.

By your own report, you seem to have enough virtues to make a go of it, if only you could find the right attitude.

There is a third way above both beta insecurity and alpha mimicry, which is to acquire virtue and derive your confidence from actual assets, rather than doing the mental gymnastics of acting “as if.” YaReally faked it long enough until he developed a real asset (PUA skills), and he derives confidence effortlessly from a memory of results. But those skills are now real and not any longer the fake pose he advises insecure men to adopt, because it worked for him.

CH rather puts it, Make your mission paramount, not women. The rest will follow. You are too focused on adopting tricks to thrive despite a pot belly (or whatever insecurity you may have), rather than adopting virtues and the confidence that should coincide with those virtues.

But all things equal, if you can only have one, the (fake) confidence is more useful than the virtue because confidence more directly speaks to women than do the traits themselves. You are essentially daring her to make an issue of the incongruity between her eyes and your lies, which women rarely have the moxie to do. Especially when you are focused exclusively on short-term rewards. Over the long term, she becomes aware of the unsupported confidence, and so by that time the PUA recommends you find fresh targets to fool (“having options”).

There is no quippy rejoinder to every AMOG remark. There is no list to memorize long enough to cover every contingency. So stop chastising yourself for not being an impromptu James-Bond screenwriter with a one-liner for every situation. Instead make a man of yourself and laugh at AMOG attempts not as a well-rehearsed act but rather as a natural expression of a man who understands his value.

Mr. King is right about anonymous AMOGS. But for your social circle, if all else fails, you have to show and occasionally use your fangs and show a slightly crazy, fed up side once or twice (probably once) – doesn’t matter your size. Go see the fight scene in the movie “Cool Hand Luke” (don’t worry – it will not get to that point). Confront the bullshit head on and don’t dick tuck. Express a sincere preference for violence to their little frat boy remarks. It will likely be a rare occasion that you’ll have to show/use your fangs again. School yard shit for people with a schoolyard mentality

Letting go may be the hardest thing for me to do here but I’ll trust what you’re saying. I think on this subject constantly now but at 34 I know my time is running short before I start to be called ‘sir’ by the women I’m looking to date. Not that it can’t be overcome of course but the last thing I need is additional hurdles.

Rereading my post I see the neediness and flat out whiny nature. “Waah, this is so hard to do, why are people mean to me’ could sum up much of it. A lot of frustration in youth was from others attacking me for reasons I could not fathom; I see I’m not as far removed from that as I’d thought. I avoid drunkenness because I’m an overly friendly drunk, as in walking around telling people how cool they are and we should hang & whatnot – an insight into my inner nature and something I should be aware of and guard against.

I am keenly aware of the irony that as I obsess in an attempt to fix things I ultimately feed into the problem and make it increasingly formidable in my own mind. I should just let it go, as you say. Accept I won’t win every encounter and stop even thinking about interaction within that frame and instead focus on my mission as I go out and socialize. For years I’ve been one of those guys CH would say “checked out” as every day was work, then sitting at home. If I’m bumbling around out there at least I should rack up some good stories, anything better than what I’ve been doing.

If I post here again I’ll stick to field reports. I think I’ve been pointed in the right direction so now it’s past time to man up and deal no matter how uncomfortable. I won’t even go into the issues I have with relationships; my goal right now is growing the social circle and interacting with desirable women again, in and out of the bedroom. The archives here have proven invaluable in that pursuit.

It’s sad I had to find out so many crucial things every man should know from stumbling onto a website.

‘I’ve also had guys make the fool out of me with a good remark and then suddenly slap me on the back and say “I’m just messing with ya” which makes me think I must be showing some sort of butthurt with my body language, only I seriously don’t think I am anymore.’

“And now you can’t keep your hands off me — hot and cold.”
I hate when dudes try to pat me on the back and shit. Naturally, it’ll happen…but I tend to try and tool them for doing it. And ya, some of that stuff is just good-natured ribbing…but some of it is just them being dicksplashes. It’s easy to tell the difference: could you do what they did to you back to them without them being a cunt about it? If so, then ya…just good-natured ribbing. But if you try to do the same thing and they get cunty — watch yourself, that’s an adversary.

‘TL;DR I’m working on getting out more but keep getting tooled by guys when I can’t keep up with the repartee.’

Wrong mindset, I think. You don’t have to keep up with them. Once you gain the ability to be a rock in the middle of anything, nothing else matters — like, think that a dude tools you and three other people crack up and you just sit there, stone silent. I can play it out for you —>

Joke 1, group laughs, you just ignore.
Joke 2, group laughs cause they see he’s trying to get a rise out of you, ignore.
Joke 3, group laughs a little less because they see he has NO effect on you, ignore.
Joke 4, group doesn’t really laugh at all, ignore.

You don’t have to “keep up” with shit. Just focus on being a rock and let him be the phaggot wave. Somewhere around Joke 3, the group will instinctively pick up “o wait…..this guy is making jokes because he WANTS the other guy to do something, and the fact that the other guy is doing nothing is making the other guy make more jokes….other guy must be higher value.”

It’s hard to pull off (believe me)…but consistent practice (fake until you start making it) will yield the desired results. At first it’ll feel really weird and the social pressure will just make you feel so icky. But after while, it’s less and less of a thing. Just practice it. Practice shutting up and thinking of no witty comeback at all and just standing there. Then, when the laughter ends, proceed as if it didn’t happen and no fucks are given. When you pull it off, it’s like ‘ya who gives a shit about -repartee-….repar-gay.’

Also, sometimes it’s hard if you have friends who are legit funny. Like, if you give them four cracks at the ball, it’s highly likely they will say something that’ll just make you involuntarily laugh. But that’s okay too, because then you can just be like ‘ok….THAT one was funny’ which is still high value => he’s a clown there to entertain you.

“Joke 1, group laughs, you just ignore.
Joke 2, group laughs cause they see he’s trying to get a rise out of you, ignore.
Joke 3, group laughs a little less because they see he has NO effect on you, ignore.
Joke 4, group doesn’t really laugh at all, ignore.”

This is exactly how it plays out. That’s Field Experience talking right there.

“But that’s okay too, because then you can just be like ‘ok….THAT one was funny’ which is still high value => he’s a clown there to entertain you.”

I think on this subject constantly now but at 34 I know my time is running short before I start to be called ‘sir’ by the women I’m looking to date.

Being called “sir” is the best thing that can happen to you. But instead of embracing this Authority of the Silverback, you are pointlessly trying to recapture an unrecapturable youth.

You know when you will lose the insecurity? When you stop trying to tool your betters and start trying to learn from them. Got AMOGged? Take your licks, acknowledge the reality, and grow from the lesson. It just takes a measure of honesty, and honesty requires courage.

Make yourself disinterested — which doesn’t mean uninterested, but rather aloof from the combat, above it, neutral enough to make a proper judgment. If the guy really burned you, it’s pointless to pretend you’re not scorched, or that you’re better than him. People see right through the fraud, the “confidence” built up by flimsy affirmation rather than by honesty and true accomplishment.

Try it this way next time, for shits and giggles. “I wish I had a comeback, but I don’t. That was fucking awesome.”

Not that such an approach will work in every scenario, but that’s not the point of it. The point is to let go of your pride to make space for learning from your superiors, especially the superiors who just demonstrated their superiority on you. Try it: feelsgoodman. There is no shame in acknowledging better men in your presence — in fact, that acknowledgment is one of the hallmarks of the superior man, who has no need to hypnotize the world against his deficiencies. Not only does it appropriately flatter the AMOG and lead to his magnanimity rather than ire, it shows you are a man of mettle who can take a few punches with a smile. Losers and tricksters are always trying to deny the reality obvious to everyone, as if that doesn’t make the situation all the worse by confirming your oblivious inferiority.

I salute you for your guts in your efforts to improve and how you told us all about your experiences so far. I hope some of the best commenters here will post some good advice for you. Here are my thoughts:

1. I doubt every guy has to be verbally quick & adroit to get women or to neutralize those shitty attacks from jerks. If you look like a guy who has his act together, if you look relaxed & self-possessed, I think you’ll do okay with a minimal response of looking at jerks like ‘You’re so shitty I find your hostile behavior mildly amusing. It must suck being you. Oh well, your behavior & remarks register on me about like a gnat buzzing around me.’
Maybe say “Uh huh.” or something like that …
(see Robert Mitchum, Lee Marvin)

You might try calmly observing “Hmm, it looks like playing this game of verbal ping pong is very important to you.” (then a shrug like ‘I wonder why you care so much about this catty verbal shit. It’s such feminine behavior.’)

Probably the key to being effective with this is looking like you regard their perceptions of you about like you would a toddler.
They aren’t qualified to judge you or rate you.
It’s kinda funny to you how they wrongly presume that they are qualified to rate you.
You’re enjoying just sitting there being you, watching the scene …
Your happiness is something you carry around inside you, wherever you go.

2. When a pack of jerks gangs up to attack you more & more, sometimes you can diminish that by calmly observing (calmly, almost bored, mildly amused, almost pitying them, probably smiling) “So when you all gang up to give me shit, does it make you feel like a big man? Wow, you’re all so brave when you’re huddling in your herd attacking the same single guy.”

This kind of remark may work best when said like you see them as being your younger brothers — still boys — fighting over one toy. Watching them do this shit amuses you, about like ‘Aw, how cute the puppies are when they all wrestle to get the same toy’. You don’t dislike these boys, you just see they’ve still got lots of growing up to do.
It might help you to keep in mind (but don’t tell them):
Sparrows flock, but an eagle flies alone.
Doing all this effectively is easier when you are a physically superior animal (athletic condition & martial art skills) and you know you could slice through these assholes like a knife through warm butter.
So investing time & effort toward attaining that state might be worthwhile.

3. From what you said about your past, you may be under-rating your looks, that is, how often new women find you attractive on your looks alone.
If so, then you’re handicapping yourself with new women.

Your first point is what I’ll be focusing on, some have said the actual words start to flow naturally once one’s mindset is in the right place. I do realize I don’t necessarily need to win every battle of wits to land a desirable woman so I should stop focusing on that one weakness so much that it blocks out everything else like I have been doing recently. After all that is most relevant when dealing with other guys at the club and AMOG attempts, etc.. skills at handling them are ancillary to the primary goal here. I’ve met a few women who are witty as all hell but honestly for the most part they are fewer in number than men. Usually I get women who think they’re a lot more clever than they really are b/c they’re used to guys laughing at whatever they say, so they’re thrown off when I give the blank stare. I can look back now and see that in my high school days when I had zero game I had that working for me. Of course back then the blank stare was because I was bored and wanted to just get it on already or go home and play Madden lol. So funny how I took it all for granted back then but I guess a lot of us did.

Lots to cover here, I’ll come back with some more later, I’ve blown all day writing shit as it is (figured I should with a whole article about me and how amazing I am and all lol).

Matt’s advice is solid long-term advice, it’s what you want to work towards (the zen thing). The only problem with it is it’s slow as fuck and doesn’t get you pussy today which ya, ya the end-all be-all of life shouldn’t be pussy but fuck it, if you’re a dude out around hot chicks, you want to stick your dick in them. And that’s OKAY lol.

Anyway, I’ll drop some more shit in here later but for this part:

“I still struggle and an example of a specific remark I’ve encountered multiple times including recently (usually a girl does this though) is to say “I could say something here, but I won’t” while casting an obnoxious sidelong glance to the others. I haven’t nailed down the perfect response to that, any help?”

Here are some “IF…THEN” responses that won’t build your overall lifelong zen master-plan, but they MIGHT help you not feel like a tooled piece of shit the next time you get this kind of tooling from people when you’re out:

“”I could say something here, but I won’t” while casting an obnoxious sidelong glance to the others.”

“Oh thank god. You talk so MUCH…finally, a break. Shhhh, everyone, let’s enjoy this silence…ahhh…” (with a cheeky grin, and interrupt her with “shhh!! I’m enjoying the rare moment where you aren’t talking!” when she talks)

“That’s alright, I assume whatever it was was a compliment, and you’re right I DO look ridiculously handsome tonight. You’re such a flatterer.” (with a cheeky grin, as always)

As long as you say these in a fun tone of voice where you know you’re deliberately being offensive/ridiculous (VS a hostile tone of voice where you’re butt-hurt), you should get a fun reaction. The underlying idea behind them all is that 1) you don’t care what she was going to say anyway, and 2) you’re sure it was probably a compliment because you’re so awesome.

This leads into the zen thing of just believing you’re awesome all the time and your game flowing from that. But again, “focusing on your mission” when you’re out at the bar and a cockblocking mother hen is trying to stop you from putting your dick in her hot little friend, won’t really do much to get her. It’s passive and hoping the universe throws you the pussy you want instead of taking what you want.

Great responses, my favorite being the second one. It’s probably obvious to many but that’s better than anything I had in mind. It would have been perfect, especially considering the last girl who used that being such a loud windbag. Now that I’m ready for that line I’m sure I’ll never encounter it again lol but I feel better just knowing at least I’m not getting tripped up again by the same trick. I know Matt’s right and there’s endless crap I’m going to run up against and I can’t script it all out, and maybe with time I’ll start to develop improvisation skills. For now Scray’s advice is probably the best for a guy like me, just assume the posture of a man who really doesn’t care and let the group see it. Getting out there these past few months has shown me I just can’t keep up with a lot of guys on the quips and I’d let that bother me far too much. Considering I was a shut-in for most of a decade I should accept my social skills are going to be inferior to those who have been out doing this for years and charge forward with irrational confidence regardless lol.

Recent changes I’ve made that have had a noticeably positive effect: not laughing so much, lots of eye contact, and trying to be more critical. I was just too nice in the past. I make an effort not to laugh unless someone has really earned it and instead of throwing out all kinds of positive supportive crap I really limit it now and even though it still doesn’t feel natural yet, I try to pick out flaws in what a person said and bring them up. I’m really just imitating what people do to me to be honest and I think with practice it’ll become second nature but for now it’s definitely a conscious effort. I still find myself slipping into the old me when I start to get too comfortable in a group. Change is difficult.

‘For now Scray’s advice is probably the best for a guy like me, just assume the posture of a man who really doesn’t care and let the group see it.’

This is the only thing that actually matters. “Keeping up” with guys and quips blah blah blah really does miss the point. Like, it really doesn’t matter what you say. You could have the most clever, lol-worthy (if we read it in type) comeback of all time….in the Field, that won’t matter much. What matters is that guy A asserts, through the quip, that he is higher value than you. By tryhard “quipping,” you just fall into the trap and risk being sucked into a gay little banter-fest that you’ll be on the losing end of precisely because you fell into his frame.

Once you -establish- that he is not higher value than you….through the tactics above, -then- you can go after him and try to tool him. That’s how it works. You don’t have to be clever at all. You can just say ‘nice hat, queer’ or something stupid and everyone will treat it like it’s hilarious.

Trust me…as a guy who’s short and stepping up, I deal with slights — minor and major — all the time. And the more successful I am, the more severe those slights are lol.

and I think that’s how you can tell who on here is going out and who isn’t. A lot of the “solutions” or the “comebacks” ASSUME that guy B is on the same playing field as guy A, so they’re like ‘o ya, the content of this response is so good! yaaaa….’ What they miss is that no one is really giving your content a chance because they think guy A is higher value. So first thing’s first: break that perception. Then later, when they’re giving you a chance/actual attention….then you can bust out some good content (altho at that point it honestly won’t matter wat you say…).

“A lot of the “solutions” or the “comebacks” ASSUME that guy B is on the same playing field as guy A, so they’re like ‘o ya, the content of this response is so good! yaaaa….’ What they miss is that no one is really giving your content a chance because they think guy A is higher value.”

Right, exactly, this is important. It’s the same concept as guys saying “oh this game stuff is all try-hard, you should just be like James Bond at the bar chilling and the hottest girls will want you”. It’s like ya they’ll love how James Bond you are when you’re dating but you won’t even be on her radar until you’re high value to her (thus why we use DHVs, social proof, negs/teasing, qualifying, approaching, etc) and the other guys chasing her will be trying to keep you OFF her radar because they’re on it.

This is just the reality of cold-approaching hotties.

I use witty comebacks because I’m quick with coming up with them. I’m able to flow like Russell Brand so it’s not hard for me to rattle off a bunch of clever stuff. If you’re not good at it, improv classes can help, study comedy and TV/movies with snappy dialogue, and just rack of tons of field experience lol

Thing is tho is that it’s like Scray says, it’s the intent that matters more than the content. The quarterback doesn’t have to say anything witty to the cheerleader, she’ll giggle even if his “joke” is like “lol whatever bro you smell like poop” because he’s high-value to her and he thinks what he’s saying is all gold because he’s confident/cocky. Meanwhile the nerd who doesn’t understand the social dynamics is standing there going “wtf?? That wasn’t even FUNNY!!” as the cheerleader giggles and fawns over the quarterback.

I COULD reply with “applesauce fuck giraffe” or just stare at her with a scolding look in my eyes and it would go over fine, because I already come off as high-value to girls so as long as that was entertaining to ME they’ll love it and think I’m a genius. But I prefer some clever wordplay stuff because I look at that as a little personal challenge, to improvise witty one-liners and innuendo and stuff, I think it’s fun lol and it’s something you improve on over time…writer’s get better the more they write, it’s the same thing.

Part of giving the OP a line to say isn’t that it’s the best zinger ever…it’s exactly what the OP wrote that now he feels a little more equipped to handle himself and will be more confident if he runs into this situ in the future. And the fact that he’s more confident about that means that he probably won’t run into it again. We give guys training wheels so they learn not to be afraid of the bike…they can take those training wheels off later and bike with no hands if they want.

The other thing is that you’ll run into the same situs over and over a lot in the field. Like the reason I can pop out comebacks for “I could say something but…” is because a ton of girls have said that (or similar) to me over the years lol so if you’re going to constantly run into the same situation, fuck it, come up with some witty responses.

Like if you only have one arm, you know people will ask what happened to your arm, so why not come up with some clever/witty/sexual responses to “what happened to your arm?” Instead of winging it every time and getting frustrated. Take control, you know?

To the OP..that list of Neg’s on your AMOG counterparts is a little too overboard. I could see a little neg, maybe followed later by another small one…but if you actually said all that shit at once, you would def sound but hurt and maybe like a little bitch. For sure a little bitch.

The response, sounds exactly like what ‘Tyler’ would say, especially if you watch his videos and writings. Not hating, but I’m very much like him in size and stature, and unless you’re having lots of fun and the rapport you’ve made with the girls have been ‘dancing monkey’, saying that would come off as really girlish. I say this because that response is exactly what ME would do before Game, when I felt inferior physically.

In other words, it would sound very PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE.

If I wanted to escalate and call you out, I’d use what the rawness would call the ‘Rearden’ – “What are you trying to say?” in a neutral tone, with a slight smirk.

YaReally is a phenomenon. I give him that. But he teaches how to be a greater loser. Is that really what you lurkers want? To be better at being losers? That was never the premise of this site. It’s now sinking into the lowest common denominator…. led by Ya. Unfathomable.

@ immoral gables – Think about it. I am all for game, love the CH, but come on..giving another male that much shit in a row, with the negs over and over does def come off as girlish and pushy in a totally passive aggressive way.

“I don’t build my self-worth around those external things so I’m not phased by it and will join in making fun of myself and be self-depreciating because I know my worth internally and know it has nothing to do with whatever he’s making fun of”

Haha, well, whatever works for you. I’d recommend getting ripped and making a lot of money though. It makes everything a lot easier, and incidentally, it makes it to acquire that sought after alpha confidence because even though it’s rarely (if ever) used, you always have the trump card against other AMOGs–pulverizing their faces.