As to the value of kata...we can see that kata were developed to ensure that the most effective methods of a particular individual or style were not lost. Kata can therefore be defined as 'a way to record and summarise the key combative techniques and principles of a fighting style'.

And here is my formidable student, Jim Hulse, who has made a science of KOs following the lines of force and direction of Uechi Kata.

As a way to record techniques, drills and principles, kata certainly works. Hundreds of years after Chinto finished teaching Matsumura his fighting method, we modern karateka have a record of the key points of Chinto's teaching. However, over time kata has drifted away from being viewed as a record of highly-potent fighting methods, to instead being generally considered as an athletic or aesthetic pursuit that has little relation to actual combat.

Regardless of how kata may be perceived today, for karateka with an interest in the original civilian fighting system, kata provides a living link back to that system (see my Bunkai-Jutsu book).

To practise karate as a pragmatic system, kata needs to be actively studied, as opposed to just 'practised'. Gichin Funakoshi (founder of Shotokan Karate) considered the practise of kata without learning to apply them in live situations to be ' useless' (Karate-do Kyohan).

Numerous other masters were also very critical of karateka who only emphasise the aesthetic performance of the kata. To my mind, without in-depth study of bunkai (kata application), kata practise loses all meaning. We should always keep in mind that kata were created to record fighting techniques and principles.

Thanks Van,I'm having some issues with my hips at the present time, got the hospital in February ,also I don't think Jim is close to where I live. I do respect Jim's approach though, incorporating nerve strikes to his Uechi, I think he has a video out on it.I intent to get a few of the more interesting videos on aspects of MA soon, that will be one of them

Van: “So based on my personal experiences and training modalities, the best way to improve 'fighting abilities' is to first become aware of what the body wants to do naturally from an outside stimulus, and then build a simple combative system around that natural response.”

A very important statement. I haven’t converted my “Oh Crap to OK” drill yet but that will come later.

Ray: Sorry to hear about your hip – hopefully all goes well in February.

Rory Miller commented in one of his books that amateurs want to demonstrate their dominance while a professional doesn’t care if you know you were dominated they just get the job done.

The concept of a “fair fight” is a mean to express dominance. On an equal basis (or perceived equal basis) I beat you man to man” (or replace with your gender).

This concept is propagated by fictional media. The gunfighters meeting in the middle of the street. Most bad ass cowboys ambushed the guys they killed.

The need to dominate or be alpha generates the monkey dance.

Most often stories we hear of a person “walking away” from a fight really are that unspoken communication went on and the aggressor backed down.

Now in some situations not appearing to be a victim may well be what gets you out of the situation but most often that isn’t the case and the stories relate that their eyes locked and the guy got the message he had a fight on his hands if…

Truly walking away from a fight means the aggressor feels they dominated you and they cowered you into running away.

When we do actually walk away there is often a massive reaction. I have been pondering this effect for a while. Certainly there is a rush of chemical cocktail because an altercation might take place and that can take its toll but this effect can ride you for days or even weeks and for some years. Reliving the experience only this time you did not walk away the fight happened and of course you dominate the aggressor.

It has struck me that while there is a physical component the long term effects are because we do not have a professional’s approach to violence and that puts us at a disadvantage.

You see if there was a true self defence need to remove the aggressor the proper response would be to leave and do it when you have all the advantages. Most of the time if you can walk away unharmed then there is no self-defence component for an engagement you initiated later.

Remember the definition for self-defence I am using is Ray’s: that I don’t get hurt - so if I can walk away unharmed then I have succeeded and anything that reengages the situation is counter to self-defence.

Leaving out those situations where you must demonstrate you will not be a victim, the need to show dominance is based in ego or lack of self-confidence.

Hey I love to say I have never been caught up in that ego thing but even most of the disputes I’ve been involved in on the internet have really just been me caught up in a virtual monkey dance. And those are what have generated my interest in this topic. I have dealt with a lot of in person conflict and very angry in my face conflict and stayed very professional so why had this not carried over to the internet? What circumstances or how did I allow myself not to apply the things I have done so many times.

Because if it can happen “here” then it can happen out there.

I have walked away from a fight. I have had students walk away from fights. We all suffered the effects which mean that while we achieved one training goal we weren’t all the way there yet. Maybe I have improved with time – only circumstance will tell.

Can we disengage the portion of ego that makes the wrong choices?

How do we train for this in any realistic way?

I think the difference between is that if we personalize a situation then ego kicks in, the need to dominate or even be right kicks in and we enter the monkey dance.

In my work it is not personal and I can keep it that way and stay professional.

Professional vs. amateur.

Professional is doing whatever you need to so that you don’t get hurt.

The amateur does things that might get them hurt.

We have a drill that kicks in the personal in a hurry – I will post this later on in the thread.

i am very proud to be one of Joe's students. I have had the privledge of training with Gushi Sensei a number of times at Joe's Milford dojo. Joe continues to pass on the traditions of his teachers over the years, Gushi sensei and Walter Mattson. Hard pressed to find better instruction anyplace.

Ray: Sorry to hear about your hip – hopefully all goes well in February.I had been doing Wing Chun but noticed a pain in my hip when I stood in their sanchin stance,which I later found out was arthritis in my good leg. So I am somewhat restricted in how I train in the future.

Quote"The concept of a “fair fight” is a mean to express dominance. On an equal basis (or perceived equal basis) I beat you man to man” (or replace with your gender).

This concept is propagated by fictional media. The gunfighters meeting in the middle of the street. Most bad ass cowboys ambushed the guys they killed.

The need to dominate or be alpha generates the monkey dance.

. In my experience violent criminals can be quite cowardly in what they do, but often their peers praise them for their callousness. Such as initiiates in gangs were they are asked to kill somebody in cold blood, even attacking the unarmed or defenceless is not looked at as cowardly. In the Hell's angel bike gang if you fight one member then all the others are expected to join in, with little chance of a fair fight.Also one thing that may be overlooked here is the ability for criminals to justify the way they behave

I have walked away from a fight. I have had students walk away from fights. We all suffered the effects which mean that while we achieved one training goal we weren’t all the way there yet. Maybe I have improved with time – only circumstance will tell.

Intense emotional circumstances like the ones outlined above can trigger a “fight-or-flight” response in the human brain. When this happens, rather than thinking through a problem and acting on it using reason, the emotions that occur can take over and cause us to act too quickly or irrationally. If you’ve ever said or done something in the “heat of the moment” that you later regretted you were probably the victim of an amygdala hijack.

The amygdala is the emotional center of your brain. When you perceive something through any of your five senses, the cortex, or “thinking” area of the brain, tells you how to react. Then the hormones in the amygdala make that action occur.

However, when something particularly stressful or intense is perceived, the thalamus, or “trafficking” part of the brain, bypasses the cortex and sends that perception directly to the amygdala. The thalamus will do this with anything perceived as a potential threat.

If threatened, the automatic response from the brain does not allow for other solutions to penetrate due to the hormones and adrenaline physically bombarding the body. At this point, the brain is not able to think logically and make decisions using sound judgment. Then the problem truly begins.

In my studies with lethal force instructors...they try to inculcate the fact that you can educate your subconscious to 'back down' without much side effects...by constantly telling yourself you are carrying 'deadly force' in your holster/pocket...which results in terminal solutions for the opponent and also for you in unintended consequences easy to predict.

So you look at the threat, you then realize you can easily kill him, but you let him off easy realizing the price you have to pay.

There is a subconscious 'empowerment'/'entitlement' _effect that can take hold in martial arts practitioners…all besieging 'shadows of grey' if you will, that can be very self destructive at times.

Because of our training, there is a tendency to think of ourselves as 'superior fighters' no matter what the challenges and the ingrained empowerment can mate righteousness_ propelling us to 'stand our ground' whereas backing down or avoiding would have been the better part of personal valor…

The end result, sometimes being that 'but for' _our 'training mentalities' we would have taken the common sense way out…rather than the opposite resulting in dire consequences.

There is a tendency in some trained martial artists to draw a precocious 'line in the sand' read that [aggressive, ahead of time, beforehand, bold, brassy, cocky, flippant, forward, fresh, nervy, premature, presumptuous, pushy, quick, sassy, smart-alecky] when facing 'hairy' situations and even forum discussions as you and Rick point out. We have all been there.

Quote:

Its naive to believe you have or deserve any influence over someone else,and that opinions are like assholes everyone has one

that the more holistic approach to martial arts and putting your ego in your conduct rather than your competence is more tactical,and more rewarding.

It is easy to imagine the abyss such a person can fall into.

Recall the case I investigated and reported here years back: a young 'tough' karate black-belt, meets his new girlfriend living in very bad part of Boston, on the top floor of tenement building.

He soon finds out that the girl had recently broken up with an ex boyfriend, a Jamaican gangbanger, who was stalking her.

Against his better judgment, clouded by his martial arts 'entitlement process' he finds himself isolated and ambushed one late night, in a darkened stairwell, when leaving his girl's apartment to go home.

He dies a terrible death with his throat cut by the gangbanger.

I was on the scene the next morning while the blood spurts were being cleaned up from the walls and ceiling.

He had been warned by his girl about this possibility…yet he 'machoed' it out…refusing to be 'punked out' to use an expression we read on my forum once by some @#$%$ poster.

At times, as you point out…a large investment in martial identity can lead to an early grave, as in this case.

I cant help but feel it points back to Rick post about the amateur versus the proffesional

I feel it very naive to be overly confident in matters of self protection

while not necessary to be paranoid, one should never be confident in dealing with such a random beast like violence.

The proffessional knows the price , and takes every effort to avoid risk, and when unavoidable uses what tactics and preperation possible to be overwhelming and negate all risk as much as possible.

It mirrors the Okinawan tradition, the politeness ofthe Okinawan traders and there efforts to appear harmless,all the while training there martial skills,convincing both the Chinese and Japanese they were no threat and going about there buisness.

Tactics..

surely if we are talking training for reality, Discretion is the better part of valour

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