In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : I never said turnovers don't matter. Not only do you not know the game, you don't know how to read either. Every QB has turnovers genius. And Brady has a lower INT% right now than he did in two of his SB winning years. Oh yeah, and is on pace for the 5th most TDs all-time . How well do you think we would be doing without those TDs?Posted by BabeParilli

OK apparently you are one of those selective memory types with regards to what you wrote.

...but more importantly what does any of the stats you trotted out have to do with anything regarding this thread and the Brady criticism during the previous two games leading up to the Jets game? Stats can say anything you want and I can easily point out his last 8 post season start stats and int% etc but non of that has to do with the thread.

Let's try to stay on point shall we.

The simple fact is that Brady played un-Brady-like for 2 and a half games. Big deal. Deal with it. He made some poor decisions that contributed to the Patriots whopping(facetious) two game losing streak. He was lumped in with the rest of the culprits committing mistakes and criticized during "That" span and rightfully so. Brady himself came out and said as much about himself.

You reaching for stats collectively for his entire season so far or his career TDs seems, umm, like reaching for reasons in support of why no one can ever point out when he has a bad game.

It's been more than 2, though. If he doesn't run the 2;00 hurry up against Dallas and succeed, we lose that one the offense's shoulders too. The fact is, our D in the Dallas game allowed Brady to use the hurry up at the end. I seriously think people are looking at the name on the jersey, the last minute type drives and thinking that's what we should want every week. I don't want that, because it won't work every week. I'll give Brady and the O tons of credit for battling this past week, and pulling away in the second half. No doubt. I just want cleaner starts, etc. Anyone remember when we used to script a drive and go up 7-0 with our D going 3 and out as well, so we'd get the ball right back up 7-0? We used to do it all the time on offense, with the D also responding on their end. When was the last timem that even happened? We picked Buffalo twice and did it in Week 3. But, those were picks which game us short fields for a 14-0 lead. Our D, either holds teams to a FG on a 1st drive or holds to 3 and outs/forced punt. But, where is the O?Posted by RidingWithTheKing

You miss the whole point. Always. Then you focus on finding ways to prove what you believe. You don't look at the evidence and formulate a theory, you decide what you believe and then look for evidence that supports it. Then you bend said evidence every way possible, and engage in a running battle to prove your point using it. In which you try to bury your opponents in a blizzard of wordy novel lenght posts no one would even bother reading. You actually blather them into submission. You just suck the life out of EVERYTHING. You are like Marvin the paranoid android.

I think Brady does need some help, and shouldnt be blamed for B.B. putting together a patchwork defense, making Brady have to score 30 a game to win.

!st of all our special teams have been nothing special, and that would help him, not having to put together 80 yard drives every time.

I hear a lot of folks talking about Rogers being the man all of a sudden. He hasnt been doing the same thing as Brady. People see the winning record and high point totals but must not watch the game. Last night the Pack had already put up 7 points before I could grab my beer. Thanks to Randal Cobb, they were up 7-0 without Rogers even on the field yet.

The other thing is Rogers isnt passing 50 times a game, and their defense makes plays when it counts and gets turnovers. Dom Capers is risky and likes chaos and a lot of blitzing, so they give up yards but always make plays. This is why Dom was gone in one year here, IMO and dont know what B.B. was thinking bringing him in. B.B. likes order in his defense.

Last thing about Rogers is he has recievers who are much better or more skilled than ours. Jennning is an all around threat, deep, middle, short, whatever.

Donald Driver, while old is still a playmaker. Main problem for Brady is his binkie Wes cant win jump balls like 6ft + Wr's

If Wes doesnt flat out beat his man, he wont get the ball. Driver caught a ball yesterday with perfect coverage on him and just went up and snagged it.

Ocho is the only dynamic player like this we have and we dont use him enough.

This is why Gronk has been Tom's fav as of late as he can just chuck it up even though he is covered and is starting to get tunnel vision. He did the same thing with a similar player who could go get it. Anyone wanna take a guess who?

Thats right , Randy Moss, who couldnt jump the last 2 years.

Brady needs a real, playmaking WR that can get open and when not, can outjump smaller d.b.'s

Small ball gets shut down in the playoffs, we have seen that. Give Brady the help he needs on offense and special teams and he will be praiesed like A-Rod as well...

Brady is nothing without Ben Jarvis Green. He's get's injured and Brady becomes Mark Sanchez or maybe he needs outside receivers that can win a jump ball or beat one on one coverage. Instead that is Gronk and Hernandez.

I am not the x's and o's guy that other people are here. I am just a simple fan who loves to hear other people'spoints of view.

I have a hard time saying someone is the "definitive"greatest QB of all time. The game rules are different,and the salary cap rules are different

That said the qb I had most enjoyed watching was Montana.I consider TB to be his equal and more. TB came one muffed INTby an All Pro CB of everyone saying that TB is the best.(thats kind of illogical)

What separates TB from the others?TB is great at home and on the road TB has been great without big recievers. TB has been great without great receivers.TB has been great in bad weather - maybe the bestTB most TD"s in seaon, best INT % and going for yds.Best winning % - TB has done this for a long time

To me the league had found a way to slow down TB. I think BB and TBare figuring how to adjust. We have a unique set of skill players.No big no fast WR's

This year there is no doubt that TB has thrown INT's this year Turnovers lose games. It does seem to me that he has also misfired at times more than I remember in past years. That said, he has still put his teamin position to win games at the end. That too is greatness.

At the end of game(s) the Defense-no matter how well they have played just wasn't able to make a play to win. A great D would - We aren't there yet- At the same time if the Offense had played up to their abilites, the Defense wouldn't have been put into that position.

I was alot more hopeful of the D after ther Tampa Bay Presesonson game.It looked like we would have a dominating defense. That really hasn't worked that way, It was really a work in progress Defense. They are young and have had a lot of injuries (Bodden never recovered). BB kows that and he is bringing them along slowly - feeling that the O would give the team cover.Against the Jets - he took the training wheels off - And we got a hell of a game

We also know that BB game plans every game differently. We know that BB teaches situational football. So I don't think we can rely just on stats. Eli and Rex said so about looking at the Pats.

The whole team is progressingI think we are learning: when to be in the spread, when to go no huddle, How to use our TE'sRun more and when (even if not well). Like all teams we cannot turn the ball over and I think TB will be TB now

I think our D will continue to improve while mixing up the defenses.Our Dline is jelling and we are good against the runOur LB's can set the edge and will provide more blitz pressureIn the Jet game we had "coverage sacks" and our DB's stink. So which is it?Our Stats will be bad for the year - But its how we are playing now.and will play later.

This team possibly could have been 8-1 or if everything went wrong4-5 (add Dallas, SD). We are what we are. Remembering the 2007 seasonwe peaked too early. Won't happen this year

We have a weak schedule. Our O and D will look greatHow good?We won't know how good until the play offs.

In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : (3)So basically you just said nothing yet again and applaud our offense being anemic for over a month by using only a hurry up as a succesful gameplan. Super, Dave. You really impressed me there. (1)Not only do I totally get the point, you can't see it, so you're slighltly embarrassed this actually was cropping up in the SD game. Oh well. No one is perfect. (2)Take observations from others and either agree or disagree, come with facts, data and contexts, and explain your position.Posted by RidingWithTheKing

1. I never get embarassed.

2. I don't work for you. I do this my way.

3. I didn't say any of that. See how you make stuff up? My point is, was, will be the the TEAM wins and loses, I believe that, and that you focus on one area only. Other focus on a different area only. Also, that you have become a raving ranting Brady hater. The evidence seems to back me up on that last one.

In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : Well thanks for sharing with us that your boyfriend is the Brady blow up doll and you wash its balls. So do I. All the good Pats' fans do. LMAOPosted by BabeParilli

No. Koolaid drinkers do that. Objective fans call 'em like they see 'em. You have "rabbit ears" when it comes to Brady, Babe. Any slight criticism of the "Terrific One" ticks you off.

In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : Evil I think I agree w/ you on some things. I believe the last 4 weeks including the 1st half were great for the team and especially Brady. He had forgotten how to win. It's easy to win when you are up 28-7 in the 4th but what about when you fall behind early or even late, then what do you do. I have felt since 07, he has been losing that will to win, that cool head that acts as if he loves it when he is down and brings his team back to pull out the last second wins. Isn't that every athlete dreams of including you and I as kids. We love to blow out a team, yet the greatest games we all remember are the close one whether we win or lose like being down 3-0 and having to scrounge to get to game 7 and then winning it vs the Yankees, and the complete opposite was the game Seinfeld rubs our noses in seemingly almost every time we watch him & that was THE Game 6 in 86!! I don't mind blowing teams out, but if it causes them to get all insecure inside everytime they get behind, they WILL not win it all!! Occasionally there are seasons where a team goes from the 1st day to the last a far superior team, but most like 07 fade, not being great simply because they were out played physically. I loved the way Brady looked in the 2nd half, and he may have been cooler under pressure than I have ever seen him and it was this adversity, struggling to remember deep in his soul where that part of him got lost, and he was so off the whole 1st half and in the 2nd he was, well, he was the real Tom Brady!! So please BB and TB, remember how you won those SBs, and remember to be tough in the trenches, use the running game and remember how to win the game when you are in the mists of losing it! Use the 5 wide outs and the no huddle judiciously!Posted by quasi

I never said we had to be up 28-7. My main target would be to keep ahead by 2 scores. 10 points is fine with me. Plus the only loss we've had where we needed + 30 was the Buffalo game. In reality all 3 losses were the result of different failures on both sides of the ball so they can't be balled up into one explanation. The one thing I'd still like to see is some more clock eating drives of 5 minutes or more.

I guess this is one of the reasons this board dosen't excite me anymore, there's a handful of experts on here, God forbid, you contradict them. He doesn't call himself the King for nothing (figment of his imagination.

With that said I want to share an experience with you on what a true fan is.Monday I had the misfortunes of spending the whole day at the VA emerg. room. while waiting in one of the waiting rooms I noticed this little old black guy all decked out in this fancy Redskins jacket. I walked over to him and asked "how'd your skins make out this weekend" (I honestly didn't know), he said "we lost" and before I could say another word, he started laughing his head off. He said the damn finns beat us, I said NO, he said yup and laughed some more, then said, ah hell it's all football.

Why is Brady above reproach? Babe Parilli slms BB constanly saying "you aren't good unless you win a SB every year", but the one guy who needs to play better for us to do that is Brady! Anyone watch last year's playoff game? I did. Why is it so offensive for people to admit Brady needs to play a lot better than this if this team is do anything in January? Posted by RidingWithTheKing

Why in your mind is BB above reproach? I don't expect this team to win the Super Bowl every year, but how about win a playoff game again.

I watched last year's playoff game, and I think more than any player performance we were outcoached in that game. We did not have answer to what the Jets were doing and were slow to adapt the game plan.

Sunday, the Pats played a great game, but lets not pretend the Jets put up a good fight. When was the last time you a defense have that much trouble getting their calls in and getting lined up.

You talk about how stupid it is to be throwing the ball out of shotgun when you can run. Sunday, Tomlinson and Greene has 74 yards on 13 carries in the first half (of 5.6 yards per run). Somehow, in the second half they ran the ball LESS. Basically, take every argument you have made about why the Patriots have lost games this year and it apply to the Jets on Sunday.

In Response to To the Brady critics. : Sorry, going old school here. I'll take the Bart Starr of the 60's.....more consistency in WINNING championships year in and year out. Age and losing a head coach named Lombardi did him and the Packers in, not what any other team did. Brady's done a lot with what he's got, which is a credit to BB and his coaching/talent selection. Got a weakness? BB's going to find it and expose it. Too bad Brady's done nothing, post season, since the Giants SB fiasco. If he won that AND made better post season showings since, I'd agree that "he's the greatest QB this game has ever seen". He should have another 2 SB victories minimum (the Giants loss and the AFC Championship loss to the Colts). A point to remember is this: Brady's done a lot with what he's got to work with. If this is true, where does the blame fall when he fails to do the same with the newest "what he's got to work with" (you pick the post season year blow out). It just works both ways, is all I'm saying.Posted by AZPAT

Yeah....that's all well and good, except you are mixing apples with oranges while overlooking the facts..!

It wasn't any Brady shortcomings that resulted in the SB loss to the Giants. If you recall, assuming you were old enough to be up that late and watching, Brady marched the Pats down the field to what should have been the game-winning TD. It was the defense that gave up the Giants' winning score, and correct me if I'm wrong, but TB doesn't play on defense, does he..?

Same for the 2006 AFC Championship Game... Brady put NE ahead, but the D couldn't stop the Colts.

Now, if you and others are so naive and spoiled as to think TB failed in either case to pull the game out because he had 30 seconds or so of possession left, and only had 80 yards to cover for another TD, then you don't deserve to be considered NE Patriots fans, but rather "Bandwagon" Pats' fans.

You know nothing about this game. You are fools. You have been spoiled and deserve a Mark Sanchez rather than the greatest QB this game has ever seen. Your constant elevating of mediocre players at the expense of the greatest Patriot is sickening. Your comments about ball washing, blow up dolls and blow jobs toward fans who appreciate greatness when they see it are despicable. You are a pathetic excuse for a fan.Posted by BabeParilli

So what you're saying is that Tom Brady is above reproach. He cannot be criticized when he has a bad game or 2 or 3.

Tom Brady is coming off an MVP year. This year is a drop off. I'm glad he's on the team. there isn't a single QB I'd rather see on the team. But, this is not his best year.

In Response to To the Brady critics. : So what you're saying is that Tom Brady is above reproach. He cannot be criticized when he has a bad game or 2 or 3. Tom Brady is coming off an MVP year. This year is a drop off. I'm glad he's on the team. there isn't a single QB I'd rather see on the team. But, this is not his best year.Posted by DirtyWaterLover

exactly..... if that's being too critical for anyone then this board may not be the best place for someone who is that sensitive.

In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : Oh god. I thought the BK character was funnyt and used a play on words for a new board name after I was banned as "BBReigns", so it seemed to blend in as a new board name. Are you serious with all this? Why can't people just discuss the Pats? Ugh.Posted by RidingWithTheKing

In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : If I remember correctly the Defense lost the SB in 07. Brady delivered the go ahead TD with little time on the clock. Same with 06 the Defense choked away that game with a lot of help from the refs. Anyone see Brady in this image?Posted by tcal2-

Sorry, the D gave up 17 in a Super Bowl...that's a highly respectable showing and should be good enough to win.

In Response to Re: To the Brady critics. : OK apparently you are one of those selective memory types with regards to what you wrote. ...but more importantly what does any of the stats you trotted out have to do with anything regarding this thread and the Brady criticism during the previous two games leading up to the Jets game? Stats can say anything you want and I can easily point out his last 8 post season start stats and int% etc but non of that has to do with the thread. Let's try to stay on point shall we. The simple fact is that Brady played un-Brady-like for 2 and a half games. Big deal. Deal with it. He made some poor decisions that contributed to the Patriots whopping(facetious) two game losing streak. He was lumped in with the rest of the culprits committing mistakes and criticized during "That" span and rightfully so. Brady himself came out and said as much about himself. You reaching for stats collectively for his entire season so far or his career TDs seems, umm, like reaching for reasons in support of why no one can ever point out when he has a bad game.Posted by Low-FB-IQ

Low-FB-IQ - I love stats! They prove everything! LOL

In Brady's first 6 years, he threw 4 picks in a game every single year except 2002, the only year his team did not make the playoffs. He would be so ticked off, and he came out the next game better than ever, instead of like 07 when the team was playing not to lose, intead of losing and regrouping, knowing it is all about the SB win, and not 19-0. So in 2001, 02, & 03 he threw 4 picks in a game, and in 03 he also had a 3 pick game & won 3 SBs, and in all those 6 seasons he threw 2 pics about 2 times a seasons; actually it was 13 times in those first 6 seasons.

Now he has an almost perfect passer rating, throws tons of TDs, and very low interception % and where has it got him.

I see Brady's 1st 6 seasons as man who was a Great QB, and in the past 5 more of a great passer. The 1st knew how to win whether he was ahead or behind, and the 2nd Brady of the past 5 years was very comfy with the lead, and the opposite when behind, and it is the reason why we are getting beaten in the playoffs, averaging 16 points in those 3 losses. These last 4 games, well 3 and a half, Brady has had to readjust his whole game, and I believe it has changed his demeanor completely. Have you ever seen him so relaxed and cool in the pocket, and the way he moved around in it was awesome!