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Ben said WR were young and it will be difficult for them to learn the new system. Guess what?? Ben was right. Young Dumb Crew took a step backwards. Blame Ben for it. Goes with the agenda.

Ben said we should have thrown more to Heath during Dallas game?? Whats wrong with that?? In the end he apologised for it but you call that serious problem???

Just because Ben does not play golf with haley does not make it a serious problem. Serious problem is with the media. Reading between the lines create serious problems.

I agree. With the way they were both playing and having pro bowl seasons (Ben and Heath) I just don't get the hate for Haley from either of them. As I have always said, the coach is important, but the bottom line is the players. I'll take playmakers over a good coach any day. And those two were making huge plays before Ben was injured. Heath was unstoppable. And the worst moment of 2012 was 83's knee injury. IMO, Heath is the second best player on this team before Troy and behind Ben. It was a total tragedy when he went down.

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..[/QUOTE]

Bill Cowher always said, " there is a fine line between winning and losing" we just were on the other side of that line in 2012. The two years prior we finished 12-4 where we made those few plays in a game which made a difference then and the 8-8 record now.
Your right in saying we were a good team last season, but beside the injuries they underperformed as well which made a good team average.
Special teams hurt us, the miscues by Antonio Brown, limited QB pressure, sub par secondary play earlier in the season, and yes even Ben played a part in those losses injury or not. The only players I seen play playoff type football were Timmons, Clark, and Miller all year, the secondary came on later and was good at the end but too late.

As for the 8-8 record, thats where we disagree, its unacceptable for a team with this talent to finish like that, yeah we had injuries but the mistakes costs us games too. In Steelers land anything less than making the playoffs is not acceptable to the fans especially when the team has talented players. I could see if this was the steelers in the 80's but not now, we should be better than an 8-8 football team.

First of all i don't need to build an opinion based on any damn non Steelers fan...every fan is nothing but an armchair QB and all they see with there beer googles is QB on TV frame during the game. They don't see the entire field. They don't know anything about where the play broke. They might not watch Steelers 16 times in a season at all.

The reason i asked stat was all you are saying is based on perception and not facts. Does Ben takes sack on 2nd down?? Absolutely.Does Ben gets sacked when in FG range?? Absolutely.. Does he do that in all the games??? Hell No. You see Ben doing that in one or two games and you think its the norm. Every QB makes bone-headed or WTF plays. As long as there frequency is low who cares. You can't eliminate those plays. As long as they are kept in check i don't see any issues.

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..

It's called perspective. A different perspective. Companies, etc bring in people outside of the internal organization for different perspectives all the time for honest analysis instead "homerism" (as steelers fans would call it)

I maybe in minority but i think Steelers team was good last season. If they could have made one or two plays more they would have made play-offs. 8-8 is not a bad season. I guess i am a blind homer Steelers fan..

Bill Cowher always said, " there is a fine line between winning and losing" we just were on the other side of that line in 2012. The two years prior we finished 12-4 where we made those few plays in a game which made a difference then and the 8-8 record now.
Your right in saying we were a good team last season, but beside the injuries they underperformed as well which made a good team average.
Special teams hurt us, the miscues by Antonio Brown, limited QB pressure, sub par secondary play earlier in the season, and yes even Ben played a part in those losses injury or not. The only players I seen play playoff type football were Timmons, Clark, and Miller all year, the secondary came on later and was good at the end but too late.

As for the 8-8 record, thats where we disagree, its unacceptable for a team with this talent to finish like that, yeah we had injuries but the mistakes costs us games too. In Steelers land anything less than making the playoffs is not acceptable to the fans especially when the team has talented players. I could see if this was the steelers in the 80's but not now, we should be better than an 8-8 football team.

Who said, we are as good as what our record indicates (or something like that). It might be another Tomlinism. 8-8 is not good for a team that had the talent we had. It's not like this team doesn't have good players. They have a lot of talent (some older) but still.... This team didn't play good enough over the course of the season. The entire season always seemed like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

In the beginning our defense was to blame... then the offense started to struggle, injuries.... then the fumbles and lack of discipline...then the coaching.

I'm not sure at any point in the season, the team was firing on all cylinders. And by that, I mean just 1 complete solid game with limited or no turnovers, minimal penalties, solid coaching, etc and both offense and defense clicking at the same time.

If this team had garbage players and little to no talent it's different and 8-8 would be acceptable. Lack of talent is NOT this teams problem. Injuries is not a good enough excuse for the most part (except Ben's injury). The Ravens had a TON of injuries throughout the entire year and they held it together.

Who said, we are as good as what our record indicates (or something like that). It might be another Tomlinism. 8-8 is not good for a team that had the talent we had. It's not like this team doesn't have good players. They have a lot of talent (some older) but still.... This team didn't play good enough over the course of the season. The entire season always seemed like 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

In the beginning our defense was to blame... then the offense started to struggle, injuries.... then the fumbles and lack of discipline...then the coaching.

I'm not sure at any point in the season, the team was firing on all cylinders. And by that, I mean just 1 complete solid game with limited or no turnovers, minimal penalties, solid coaching, etc and both offense and defense clicking at the same time.

If this team had garbage players and little to no talent it's different and 8-8 would be acceptable. Lack of talent is NOT this teams problem. Injuries is not a good enough excuse for the most part (except Ben's injury). The Ravens had a TON of injuries throughout the entire year and they held it together.

Thats basically what I said in my post......As for the 8-8 record, thats where we disagree, its unacceptable for a team with this talent to finish like that.

Honestly I pay no attention to Ben and Haley on the sideline unless they are on the TV. Are you saying you are at all the games and watch this dynamic occur all season? If it does happen it sounds stupidly childish. I am not sure I buy it. That's like insubordination, etc. I figure they handle themselves professionally. If they don't that IS a problem, but I can't see how anyone can watch them enough to get the gist of things unless you are at all 8-16 games and in person.

I agree... but I remember a story where they asked Ben if he met Haley right after he was hired and they were both at the facility and Ben said they hadnt crossed paths yet. Unless he was taking the media for a ride it sounded childish at the time. Hell, even if it was to feed the media some bull its still childish.

I know the media wants this story but sometimes I think Ben wants it too.

I agree... but I remember a story where they asked Ben if he met Haley right after he was hired and they were both at the facility and Ben said they hadnt crossed paths yet. Unless he was taking the media for a ride it sounded childish at the time. Hell, even if it was to feed the media some bull its still childish.

I know the media wants this story but sometimes I think Ben wants it too.

You and I have a very different idea of what is "childish" then. Maybe office etiquette is different where you are from? Around here, if a new manager starts a job, he is the one who meets with the employees (even the top sales reps) not the other way around.

You and I have a very different idea of what is "childish" then. Maybe office etiquette is different where you are from? Around here, if a new manager starts a job, he is the one who meets with the employees (even the top sales reps) not the other way around.

I can see both sides and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I agree, that is what a "good" manager would do especially a manager with good people skills. However, whether you like your new boss or not... He or she is still your boss and you need to listen to your boss and show him/her respect. Yes, it's easier with a manager you like. In Ben's case, that was obviously Arians. Just because Haley isn't buddy buddy with Ben doesn't mean Ben should show him any less respect. In fact, I think Ben being buds with Arians was not a good thing.

I've had certain instances where I had a manager that I was better friends with but that manager was NOT a better supervisor than the others. Some supervisors may not want to be "friends" with you (from a professional standpoint) but they are excellent managers and are very good at what they do. They are good at rewarding you for your work and strengthening your weakness. Sometimes you have a person you really like from a personal friends standpoint, but that person sucks as a supervisor/manager.

Up until Tomlin finally put his foot down against Mendenhall and Wallace, I thought Tomlin to "buddy" "buddy" with his players and that can be bad especially in the NFL. Sometimes, you need your employees to respect the fact that you are infact still their boss. Arians and Ben was worse in this regard.

I don't have any evidence of this, but I got the feeling that Ben improved because of Ben (&Batch) and his experience on the field, not so much because of Arians. I don't get the sense Arians was a harsh critic and would say.... "Listen Ben, you need to do a better job of this..."