Mercat makes some good points. I think that we as Roawians are at a critical point. We must! Make changes for the better! Who knows what could happen next time. If we are to slip up again. We could end up with something worse than what happened this time.

Luke the Swift~ wrote:Mercat makes some good points. I think that we as Roawians are at a critical point. We must! Make changes for the better! Who knows what could happen next time. If we are to slip up again. We could end up with something worse than what happened this time.

Yeah...Like end up with one of one those jingoistic leaders as King.

Nah, we in the KC have decided that the Queen will stay in rule for a very very long time as she's the best leader we've ever had!

Lord Mercat wrote:Furthermore, we can now look at the Lenfel-Loreesi war. What was the cause of this? Petty insults. So, because of a misunderstanding and a few poorly chosen words, Loreos invaded Lenfald. The result? Thousands of lives. For what? Because your lords felt miffed at some pithy remark? Really? Is that a good reason to throw away the lives of thousands of blindly loyal citizens of your country? Poor form. The leaders of the factions aren't fit to sit on the thrones they inhabit as they clearly don't give one lick about the people they govern. You can say what you want, but actions speak far more loudly than words in this regard.

Actually the Lenfel-Loreesi war was not started over insults. It was started over Lenfald claiming that the Prince of Loreos had the King of Roawia killed over the Magic Isle incident which the King decreed to his Lords of the three lands to invade. It wasn't the idea of the Lords themselves, they only obeyed the lawful King of all three realms. Furthermore...the leaders of Loreos didn't just invade over the insult of being called "King Slayers", they invaded over other factors that had to do with economics, unjust years of suffering and other elements. When I state unjust years of suffering I mean those who were punished for living on the side Lenfald received when the King created official borders. The persecution of those who should have been able to live free noble lives under the banner of Loreos was the melting point. Further the death of other Nobles members and families caused by Lenfel assassins didn't help either. The war happened for all those reasons and then to top it off... the leader of Lenfald Lord Triphian kidnapped Mark of Falworth to stay the hand of vengeful Loreesi blades who were on his doorstep with an army. The war was bound to happen...but the causes were pretty clear. However, with all the leaders and that war over. There is no reason to hold any grudges over what transpired since both sides achieved something and lost something in return. The clear result though is that the war itself may have been a set up by the Queen from the beginning who as you pointed out was seeking vengeance upon a King and his Lords who led an invasion of a land where she was hiding in exile.

Mattiusxavier wrote:Actually the Lenfel-Loreesi war was not started over insults. It was started over Lenfald claiming that the Prince of Loreos had the King of Roawia killed over the Magic Isle incident which the King decreed to his Lords of the three lands to invade. It wasn't the idea of the Lords themselves, they only obeyed the lawful King of all three realms. Furthermore...the leaders of Loreos didn't just invade over the insult of being called "King Slayers", they invaded over other factors that had to do with economics, unjust years of suffering and other elements. When I state unjust years of suffering I mean those who were punished for living on the side Lenfald received when the King created official borders. The persecution of those who should have been able to live free noble lives under the banner of Loreos was the melting point. Further the death of other Nobles members and families caused by Lenfel assassins didn't help either. The war happened for all those reasons and then to top it off... the leader of Lenfald Lord Triphian kidnapped Mark of Falworth to stay the hand of vengeful Loreesi blades who were on his doorstep with an army. The war was bound to happen...but the causes were pretty clear. However, with all the leaders and that war over. There is no reason to hold any grudges over what transpired since both sides achieved something and lost something in return. The clear result though is that the war itself may have been a set up by the Queen from the beginning who as you pointed out was seeking vengeance upon a King and his Lords who led an invasion of a land where she was hiding in exile.

The war was started over insults, you even had the scene up where the three lords were at each other's throats (I think it was AK Brickster who built that one)- something over Jarius being miffed that he hadn't recieved support that he was supposed to get in some kind of battle or other at the Magic Isles, and rather than discuss the miscommunications like men, all three lords devolved to petty name calling. It might not have been the final tipping point, but it was the start. As for the Magic Isle crusade, The King may have "decreed" it but as the LCC is set up, the King was much more of a figurehead and had little real power. The lords could have easily dismissed this for the terrible idea that it was, but they failed to stand up for their people. In addition, the lords themselves actually pushed the king to reach that edict, as can be seen from several builds and stories inferred from the time. There were a few nobles who pushed the Lords to get this outcome as well. Now, I do not believe for a second that Loreos killed the king. It's just way too convenient. Also, for all I hear about how great the Areani really are, I really sincerely doubt that they would have left such an obvious clue behind if they did. The discovery of that bit of cloth is just far too convenient. About your "years of suffering" that is just a reason given by nobles to the populace to justify their petty war. There isn't any evidence of tyranny in Lenfald. Im not saying Jarius is a tyrant, or Triphian, or Eindrik. I am saying that, at best they have made increasly poor decisions as to the welfare of the people they are supposed to govern, and at worst they are spoiled brats who cannot see the bigger picture and continue to look for any reason to war about and mess with their (I dont think brothers is appropriate here, but I dont have a better word at the moment) brothers stuff.

At this scale, even if they are genuinely trying to right by their people and have simply made terrible mistakes, they are beyond the point of forgiveness. What they have allowed to happen to their lands is not forgivable. By nature of their title and the powers they hold, they cannot be held to the same standards as a common man- they must be better. A regent must be noble, be looking out for the best interests of his people, the lands he governs, and should look at war as a last resort in every case. This has not happened in the slightest. You know what they say about good intentions and the roads they pave. It's just not enough.

I also doubt the Queen is responsible for the wars and such as well. Her current plan, as I have detailed above, simply isn't well thought out enough to indicate this high a level of setup. I think it more likely she just wandered into a good situation and took advantage of it. Either way, the Lords- all of them have made very serious mistakes that have gotten many of the subjects under their protection killed- subjects that had no need to die. They need to answer for this.

Lord Mercat wrote: Her current plan, as I have detailed above, simply isn't well thought out enough to indicate this high a level of setup.

Keep in mind this is only true if her plan is to just control the realms through her armies and hostages. I for one believe that this is merely a distraction or perhaps phase 1, and her true master plan has far bigger loftier goals.

-Drakk

"The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit." -R. W. Emerson"Mmmm, gold." -DrakkFlickr

Lord Mercat wrote: Her current plan, as I have detailed above, simply isn't well thought out enough to indicate this high a level of setup.

Keep in mind this is only true if her plan is to just control the realms through her armies and hostages. I for one believe that this is merely a distraction or perhaps phase 1, and her true master plan has far bigger loftier goals.

-Drakk

That would be really interesting and cool for the storyline. I hope she has a masterplan and this is just part 1, that would make for some really interesting challenges.

Lord Mercat wrote:The war was started over insults, you even had the scene up where the three lords were at each other's throats (I think it was AK Brickster who built that one)- something over Jarius being miffed that he hadn't recieved support that he was supposed to get in some kind of battle or other at the Magic Isles, and rather than discuss the miscommunications like men, all three lords devolved to petty name calling.

Although I see your point and believe me the Magic Islands had an influence on the reasons for the war...the idea that a war was started over just insults doesn't make sense in its own right...it certainly had an influence, but like I said wasn't the core reason for the war. For example, as you pointed out Jarius was miffed over the lack of support which cost Loreos many good men, equally the other factions leaders and citizens were miffed at each other for a variety of other reasons as well that could easily have been stated to have been fueled by inter-faction rivalry.

Now although the leaders of the factions have been notable for making some choice mistakes...its all apart of the character they play to help further the story in LCC. After all...very few nobles or royals have ever actually been truly noble as per the definition.

As for the Queen not being the mastermind...well she might not be directly...but she does surround herself with devious minded individuals who could have easily plotted this as a sort of revenge from a long standing point of view **cough cough Maldrake**.

AK_Brickster wrote:Ahhh... Revisionist history at its best! MattiusX is quite the spin-doctor, eh?

REVISIONIST HISTORY! SPIN DOCTOR! :O PFFFTT....I prefer Healer of Words and Speaker of the Truth ...but then again what would a Garheim know about history if it wasn't transcribed on the side of a mug of Ale.

AK_Brickster wrote:Hold your tongue, desert dog! Out stein inscription is exquisite; unmatched in all of Roawia! Plus, it's a great way to turn a night at the ale house into an excellent learning opportunity, ok???

The only learning a Garhim ever did was when he (or she, as it may be) found out the difference between a pint of whisky and a pint of beer! Only one satisfies a Garhim...the whisky, of course!

AK_Brickster wrote:Hold your tongue, desert dog! Out stein inscription is exquisite; unmatched in all of Roawia! Plus, it's a great way to turn a night at the ale house into an excellent learning opportunity, ok???

I don't disagree...but its the only way your histories are recorded and its done mostly over binge drinking sessions. I do recall one history going something like this "There was a war somewhere down south, we came, we saw, we got smashed, we got bombed on some new brew that Hendricks made. Therefore this is the story of Hendricks Brew, the legendary Brew made from the colossal Hops grown in the southern Garheim region by good old Hendricks the Wise. He made them into a fantastic Ale and then served them to seven different wives. Hendricks was a Legend of Old, and made the best out of something bold. Hendricks the brew master you see, made Garheim busy than a bee." then it goes on about Hendricks getting drunk and passing out in the snow where he came up with a new treat, Hedricks Ale on Ice mixed with some sort of special syrup they have now in Garheim...either way this is how wars are recorded in Garheim...mostly if they relate to a new drink being invented. I've heard too that Garheim's libraries are the Brewhouses. Only the wisest of men can attend, if they can only walk a straight line afterwards. LOL

That's an outrage! We don't drink whiskey from a mug...We drink it from the bottle You Loreesi act so pious, like you've never had a good drink. Just because your Sandman Mead is too weak to get you properly drunk, you Lorseesi can't even appreciate our libraries. Pssh... can't even get past the first aisle.