Patricia Gaughen wrote:
> > --On Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:01:51 PM +0100 Erich Focht <efocht@...
> > c.de> wrote:
> >
> > >> Pat Gaughen was interested in talking to Erich about
> > >> support for topology stuff.
> >
> > I will add this to the agenda for the next call. It will
> > be on Feb 7th. I will send the agenda out middle of next week.
>
> actually, I'd just prefer to discuss this over email.
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
You want it? Well you got it! ;)
Attatched is a patch I've been working on... It's something useful I'd
like to add to the set of in-kernel topology macros.
pcibus_to_cpumask(). I orignally had a concept of pcibus_to_node(), but
after some discussion on lkml, we decided that it wasn't the best way to
go because some platforms have pcibuses equidistant from 2 different
nodes. This left us with either a pcibus_to_nodemask() or
pcibus_to_cpumask(). Obviously, I'm leaning toward the latter. I think
this is a bit more flexible, because it allows for architectures where
certain cpus within a node may be closer to the pci or I/O busses
(Opteron, I think?).
In any case, it would be great if anyone wanted to implement this call
on their architecture and send me a patch. Or just comment on the
idea/implementation/usefulness/whatever.
Cheers!
-Matt

> --On Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:01:51 PM +0100 Erich Focht <efocht@...
> c.de> wrote:
>
> >> Pat Gaughen was interested in talking to Erich about
> >> support for topology stuff.
>
> I will add this to the agenda for the next call. It will
> be on Feb 7th. I will send the agenda out middle of next week.
actually, I'd just prefer to discuss this over email.
Thanks,
Pat

--On Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:01:51 PM +0100 Erich Focht <efocht@...> wrote:
>> Pat Gaughen was interested in talking to Erich about
>> support for topology stuff.
I will add this to the agenda for the next call. It will
be on Feb 7th. I will send the agenda out middle of next week.
> sorry for not being able to attend the call. I took three days off
> because I was moving (my household).
I am sorry I didnt arrange to call you. I will call you
this time (same number?). Congratulations on the move!
Hanna

Hanna, Pat,
On Saturday 25 January 2003 00:30, Hanna Linder wrote:
> LSE Con Call 24 Jan 2003
=2E..
> Pat Gaughen was interested in talking to Erich about
> support for topology stuff. Hanna has figured out how to
> call out to international numbers so Erich, I will really
> be able to call you next time!
sorry for not being able to attend the call. I took three days off
because I was moving (my household). No internet, no telefone, no
computers ;-) so I just didn't know that the NUMA scheduler is on the
agenda of the LSE call.
Regards,
Erich

LSE Con Call 24 Jan 2003
Michael Hohnbaum - NUMA Update
Last call mbligh mentioned his mini numa schedular.
By late friday night Erich Focht had generated the last
piece of code needed (node rebalancing). He debugged it
and Linus picked it all up by Thursday!
Congrats to Martin, Erich, Michael, Andrew and everyone
else for getting it in.
As an added bonus Ingo Molnar responded to the
patches being accepted. He made some additional
changes which has been debugged and it should all
work together well.
Andrew Theurer added code to help the numa scheduler
dispatch hyperthreaded processes. It was more of a
proof of concept than final solution for hyperthreading.
Ingo then made additional changes to the O(1) sched. and
he took some fixes that Andrea Arcangeli made to the O(1)
sceduler.
Michael did some basic runs and it appears there are some
nice performance boosts according to sched bench (on numaq).
There are still some issues that hbaum is looking at related
to poor load balancing.
Dave Hanson asked about lock contention on shared runqueues for
hyperthreading? Michael isnt using any hardware with hyperthreading
now. Andrew is the one looking at that now.
If you are trying to support Hyperthreading then
Martin Bligh mentioned you should use ingo's patch
called D7 which provides one runqueue per pair of
hyperthreaded processors. You can use D7 without CONFIG_NUMA.
Could someone please write a list of patches or hacks that might be
helpful for working with hyperthreading? (Andrew? Martin?)
Pat Gaughen was interested in talking to Erich about
support for topology stuff. Hanna has figured out how to
call out to international numbers so Erich, I will really
be able to call you next time!
Hanna Linder- Move lse project of of sf?
- leave lse-tech mailing list where it is.
- sourceforge has no money to support any special requests
- Consider Tigris, Savanagh.nongnu, OSDL umbrella project for scalability.
- Discussed moving to osdl. Should talk to nathan and bryce.
- Hanna will walk across the street and talk to them in person.
- Hanna did talk to them and it is looking like a promising
option.
- Does anyone see any issue with moving lse to osdl?
The plan for now is just a place to easily put patches.
The osdl has other tools to enable automatic testing
of patches which we hope to utilize in the future.
- Hanna will add offset from GMT for future announcements of lse calls.`

rwhron@... wrote:
>
> > It is important to specify how much memory you have, and how you are
> > invoking qsbench.
>
> There is 3.75 GB of ram. I grab MemTotal from /proc/meminfo, and run
> 4 qsbench processes. Each qsbench uses 30% of MemTotal (1089 megs).
Yes, 2.5 sucks at that. Run `top', observe how in 2.4, one qsbench instance
grabs all the CPU time, then exits. The remaining three can now complete
with no swapout at all..

> qsbench isn't really a thing which should be optimised for.
The way I run qsbench simulates an uncommon workload.
> It is important to specify how much memory you have, and how you are
> invoking qsbench.
There is 3.75 GB of ram. I grab MemTotal from /proc/meminfo, and run
4 qsbench processes. Each qsbench uses 30% of MemTotal (1089 megs).
--
Randy Hron
http://home.earthlink.net/~rwhron/kernel/bigbox.html

rwhron@... wrote:
>
> qsbench creates heavy swap load and simultaneous ed build. (small gnu package
> "tar xzf/configure/make/make check").
qsbench isn't really a thing which should be optimised for. It's just a mad
swapstorm, and as far as I can tell, its memory access patterns do not follow
normal locality-of-reference patterns.
The one thing we do learn from it is that to handle mad swapstorms, the 2.5
kernel needs load control. When you run multiple qsbench instances, they all
make equal progress and there is a tremendous amount of swapping.
In 2.4, individual instances of qsbench are able to hammer all the others
into the deck so they race ahead and exit, leaving more memory for the rest.
So 2.4 completes multithreaded qsbench in much less time than 2.5.
2.5 will complete single-instance qsbench in maybe 5% less time than 2.4,
which indicates that there's nothing fundamentally wrong or different, apart
from the fairness artifact.
(Well, 2.5 _used_ to run it faster. The anticipatory scheduling patch makes
2.5's qsbench a little slower than 2.4. `qsbench -m 350' on `mem=256m').
> Good numbers for this benchmark are open to interpretation, but more
> ed builds in less time is better. The "secs" column is how long it took
> for qsbench to do it's thing.
It is important to specify how much memory you have, and how you are
invoking qsbench.

Andrew Morton wrote:
>rwhron@... wrote:
>
>>Did you add a secret sauce to 2.5.59-mm2?
>>
>
>I have not been paying any attention to the I/O scheduler changes for a
>couple of months, so I can't say exactly what caused this. Possibly Nick's
>batch expiry logic which causes the scheduler to alternate between reading
>and writing with fairly coarse granularity.
>
Yes, however tiobench doesn't mix the two. The batch_expire helps
probably by giving longer batches between servicing expired requests.
The deadline-np-42 patch also eliminates corner cases in which requests
could be starved for a long time. A large batch_expire as in mm2 is not
a good solution without my anticipatory scheduling stuff though as
writes really starve reads.
>
>
>> 10x sequential write improvement on ext3 for multiple tiobench threads.
>>
>
>OK...
>
>I _have_ been paying attention to the IO scheduler for the past few days.
>-mm5 will have the first draft of the anticipatory IO scheduler. This of
>course is yielding tremendous improvements in bandwidth when there are
>competing reads and writes.
>
>I expect it will take another week or two to get the I/O scheduler changes
>really settled down. Your assistance in thoroughly benching that would be
>appreciated.
>
>
>>2.4.20aa1 8.24 7.21% 28.587 449134.11 0.10395 0.07086 114
>>2.5.59 9.50 5.50% 36.703 4310.62 0.00000 0.00000 173
>>2.5.59-mm2 35.28 17.69% 10.173 18950.56 0.01010 0.00000 199
>>
>
>boggle.
>
I'm happy with that as long as they aren't too dependant on the phase of
the moon. The initial deadline scheduler had quite a lot of problems with
these workloads.

rwhron@... wrote:
>
> Did you add a secret sauce to 2.5.59-mm2?
I have not been paying any attention to the I/O scheduler changes for a
couple of months, so I can't say exactly what caused this. Possibly Nick's
batch expiry logic which causes the scheduler to alternate between reading
and writing with fairly coarse granularity.
> 10x sequential write improvement on ext3 for multiple tiobench threads.
OK...
I _have_ been paying attention to the IO scheduler for the past few days.
-mm5 will have the first draft of the anticipatory IO scheduler. This of
course is yielding tremendous improvements in bandwidth when there are
competing reads and writes.
I expect it will take another week or two to get the I/O scheduler changes
really settled down. Your assistance in thoroughly benching that would be
appreciated.
> 2.4.20aa1 8.24 7.21% 28.587 449134.11 0.10395 0.07086 114
> 2.5.59 9.50 5.50% 36.703 4310.62 0.00000 0.00000 173
> 2.5.59-mm2 35.28 17.69% 10.173 18950.56 0.01010 0.00000 199
boggle.

--On Thursday, January 23, 2003 06:00:47 PM -0800 Larry McVoy <lm@...> wrote:
> Let me be clear about what I'm offering so there isn't any confusion.
> bkbits.net is a hosting service for BitKeeper repositories. It's
That is what I thought. Im familiar with bk (Im the woman who
offered to pay for a license myself and I read something about
a bk tshirt ;) ). The Linux Scalability Effort project probably won't
work well as a bk tree but I will give it more thought and bring
it up for discussion tomorrow.
Thanks again for the offer.
Hanna "size small" Linder ;)

Let me be clear about what I'm offering so there isn't any confusion.
bkbits.net is a hosting service for BitKeeper repositories. It's
not really sourceforge, the difference is in how BK works. BK replicates
all the data so bkbits.net becomes no more than a cache. So if we go
under, no worries, none of your data is locked up here, all we have as
a copy of it but there are lots of copies out there.
Linus and Marcelo host the 2.5 and 2.4 linux kernel BitKeeper repositories
there under http://linux.bkbits.net.
You can read about how it works at http://www.bitkeeper.com/Hosted.html
> wow. Thanks. The biggest problems are the inability to scp patches
> on to the project and the hassle of having to actually download a
> patch instead of being able to simply view it on the web site.
Yow may view patches on the web, we have a CVSweb like thing as well as
a patch like interface.
> I will mention this at the con call tomorrow and get back with you.
> You are more than welcome to attend!
Thanks, but I doubt I could add any value and I don't really have time.
I wanted to make you aware of the resource, we do it for free to help
out the kernel, if it helps you, that's great. We derive benefit from
Linux, this is our way of giving something back.
Cheers,
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm

wow. Thanks. The biggest problems are the inability to scp patches
on to the project and the hassle of having to actually download a
patch instead of being able to simply view it on the web site.
We are not a single product kind of project. We tend to have many
different patches for different trees and just need an easy
way to share them with each other. Some way to track which patches
get download most often also makes the companies we all work for
happy.
I will mention this at the con call tomorrow and get back with you.
You are more than welcome to attend!
Thanks a lot.
Hanna
--On Thursday, January 23, 2003 05:45:49 PM -0800 Larry McVoy <lm@...> wrote:
> I don't know what the sourceforge issues are but if space on bkbits.net
> helps you it is there for the taking. Let me know if you have any
> questions.
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 05:39:22PM -0800, Hanna Linder wrote:
>>
>> I. Michael Hohnbaum - NUMA status and update
>>
>> II. Hanna Linder - Different project host for lse than sourceforge?
>> The pros and cons of sourceforge will be debated.
>> Alternative hosting sites.
>> What all does lse really need?
>>
>> USA Toll Free: 1-877-849-9636
>> International Toll: +1-719-457-5110
>> Passcode: 372406
>> 9:30am PST, 11:30am CST, 12:30pm EST every other Friday
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@...
>> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.NET email is sponsored by:
> SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See!
> http://www.vasoftware.com
> _______________________________________________
> Lse-tech mailing list
> Lse-tech@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lse-tech
>

I don't know what the sourceforge issues are but if space on bkbits.net
helps you it is there for the taking. Let me know if you have any
questions.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2003 at 05:39:22PM -0800, Hanna Linder wrote:
>
> I. Michael Hohnbaum - NUMA status and update
>
> II. Hanna Linder - Different project host for lse than sourceforge?
> The pros and cons of sourceforge will be debated.
> Alternative hosting sites.
> What all does lse really need?
>
> USA Toll Free: 1-877-849-9636
> International Toll: +1-719-457-5110
> Passcode: 372406
> 9:30am PST, 11:30am CST, 12:30pm EST every other Friday
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@...
> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm

>>> This conversation is good, let's keep it up. So far the biggest
>>> complaint with sf seems to be the inability to view patches
>>> without downloading them first.
>>
>> You can do that, I think. Pushing patches up is a pain tho.
>
> You can't look at patches without downloading them, that is
> one of the main complaints. You used to be able to but that
> changed a while ago.
Oh. Just tried it. It seems that it has been so long since I last used
it that they've managed to break yet another element of the interface.
Another big reason to ditch sourceforge ;-)
Thanks for the correction,
M.

-On Thursday, January 23, 2003 11:58:51 AM -0800 "Martin J. Bligh" <mbligh@...> wrote:
>> This conversation is good, let's keep it up. So far the biggest
>> complaint with sf seems to be the inability to view patches
>> without downloading them first.
>
> You can do that, I think. Pushing patches up is a pain tho.
You can't look at patches without downloading them, that is
one of the main complaints. You used to be able to but that
changed a while ago.
Hanna

> I agree with nOano and I think Rick that we should leave
> the existing 2.4 patches where they are (if only to
> keep old links in OLS papers still active). However, for
> the next push perhaps it is a good time to look at a
> new site for 2.5 work. The two options I have seen that
> look good are tigris and savannah. Here are the links:
>
> http://www.tigris.org
> http://savannah.nongnu.org
Not sure if tigris deals with this kind of thing:
* Tigris.org is a mid-sized open source community focused
on building better tools for collaborative software development.
* You will not find thousands of unrelated projects here:
every project fits into the Tigris vision.
Savannah looks good, seems to have ssh access, but also seems
to have an underlying dependency on CVS .. not sure how invisible
this is underneath? Has anyone played with this?
> If we separate the 2.4 and 2.5 lse projects do we continue
> to use the same mailing list? nOano, you are the maintainer
> of the mailing list and have the final say on whether or
> not to move the existing one. Im afraid moving the mailing
> list will create more confusion than clarity, what do you
> all think?
IMHO, the mailing list seems to be working fine as is ...
> This conversation is good, let's keep it up. So far the biggest
> complaint with sf seems to be the inability to view patches
> without downloading them first.
You can do that, I think. Pushing patches up is a pain tho.
M.

I agree with nOano and I think Rick that we should leave
the existing 2.4 patches where they are (if only to
keep old links in OLS papers still active). However, for
the next push perhaps it is a good time to look at a
new site for 2.5 work. The two options I have seen that
look good are tigris and savannah. Here are the links:
http://www.tigris.orghttp://savannah.nongnu.org
If we separate the 2.4 and 2.5 lse projects do we continue
to use the same mailing list? nOano, you are the maintainer
of the mailing list and have the final say on whether or
not to move the existing one. Im afraid moving the mailing
list will create more confusion than clarity, what do you
all think?
This conversation is good, let's keep it up. So far the biggest
complaint with sf seems to be the inability to view patches
without downloading them first.
More opinions?
Hanna
--On Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:55:22 AM -0800 Gerrit Huizenga <gh@...> wrote:
> I still get thrown at a mirror selector - it doesn't give me the
> option to simply view the patch from within my browser. I have to
> select a mirror (and the cookie for mirror selection never sticks
> around, so I have to choose every time). Then, I get a nice netscape
> stderr output which appears to contain the file to be download, but
> with some characters "unprintable" and an "ok" button". And,
> finally, I'm forced to save the file, which is sometimes okay, but
> just a pain for viewing a patch.
>
> I don't know why they don't use quiet rotating mirrors through
> DNS like many other sites do, with a possible cookie preference
> you can select if you want a nearby mirror.
>
> There may be some browser oddities here (I'm using Netscape 4.77
> under debian in this case - not the latest but still mostly
> function) oh - and I just tried galeon, still thrown into the
> "download file" dialog with the page showing mirror selection, even
> when changing ?download to ?umn.dl, for instance. Even cutting
> and pasting the actual mirror link into the the URL selection does
> exactly the same thing.
>
> Functional, yes. Convenient, no.
>
> gerrit
>
>> I can't comment on the other problems you and Gerritt raised but there
>> is a simple URL you can use to get to the files on the download page.
>> The URL on the page for file `foo' is
>>
>> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/lse/foo?download
>>
>> If you delete `?download' and change `prdownloads' to `unc.dl' you get
>> a simple URL that can be used by `wget'. Turns out the `unc' part
>> identifies one of 8 different mirrors, you can change `unc' to anyone
>> of:
>>
>> easynews
>> unm
>> twtelecom
>> telia
>> switch
>> belnet
>> cesnet
>>
>> and still get the file.
>>
>> This probably breaks some unwritten SourceForge rule and I admit it is
>> a little cumbersome but it does seem to work.
>>
> d On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 06:35:32PM -0800, Martin J. Bligh wrote:
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > 1. I can scp a file to it.
>> > 2. I can email out a simple URL for people to get patches from
>> > (that works with wget and friends - ie no switch script garbage).
>> >
>> > Anything much heavier than this is just too much effort and burnt time.
>> > This is similar to other mutterings of discontent I've heard, but
>> > perhaps if others could list out their requirements too ???
>> >
>> > M.
>> >
>> > PS. To me, it's not two windows that are stuck, it's the front and back
>> > doors. Climbing in through the windows does work, but is rather incovenient.
>>
>> --
>> Don Dugger
>> "Censeo Toto nos in Kansa esse decisse." - D. Gale
>> n0ano@...
>> Ph: 303/652-0870x117
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies!
>> Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships.
>> Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more.
>> http://www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lse-tech mailing list
>> Lse-tech@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lse-tech
>>
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.NET email is sponsored by:
> SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See!
> http://www.vasoftware.com
> _______________________________________________
> Lse-tech mailing list
> Lse-tech@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lse-tech
>

I still get thrown at a mirror selector - it doesn't give me the
option to simply view the patch from within my browser. I have to
select a mirror (and the cookie for mirror selection never sticks
around, so I have to choose every time). Then, I get a nice netscape
stderr output which appears to contain the file to be download, but
with some characters "unprintable" and an "ok" button". And,
finally, I'm forced to save the file, which is sometimes okay, but
just a pain for viewing a patch.
I don't know why they don't use quiet rotating mirrors through
DNS like many other sites do, with a possible cookie preference
you can select if you want a nearby mirror.
There may be some browser oddities here (I'm using Netscape 4.77
under debian in this case - not the latest but still mostly
function) oh - and I just tried galeon, still thrown into the
"download file" dialog with the page showing mirror selection, even
when changing ?download to ?umn.dl, for instance. Even cutting
and pasting the actual mirror link into the the URL selection does
exactly the same thing.
Functional, yes. Convenient, no.
gerrit
> I can't comment on the other problems you and Gerritt raised but there
> is a simple URL you can use to get to the files on the download page.
> The URL on the page for file `foo' is
>
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/lse/foo?download
>
> If you delete `?download' and change `prdownloads' to `unc.dl' you get
> a simple URL that can be used by `wget'. Turns out the `unc' part
> identifies one of 8 different mirrors, you can change `unc' to anyone
> of:
>
> easynews
> unm
> twtelecom
> telia
> switch
> belnet
> cesnet
>
> and still get the file.
>
> This probably breaks some unwritten SourceForge rule and I admit it is
> a little cumbersome but it does seem to work.
>
d On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 06:35:32PM -0800, Martin J. Bligh wrote:
> >
> >...
> >
> > 1. I can scp a file to it.
> > 2. I can email out a simple URL for people to get patches from
> > (that works with wget and friends - ie no switch script garbage).
> >
> > Anything much heavier than this is just too much effort and burnt time.
> > This is similar to other mutterings of discontent I've heard, but
> > perhaps if others could list out their requirements too ???
> >
> > M.
> >
> > PS. To me, it's not two windows that are stuck, it's the front and back
> > doors. Climbing in through the windows does work, but is rather incovenient.
>
> --
> Don Dugger
> "Censeo Toto nos in Kansa esse decisse." - D. Gale
> n0ano@...
> Ph: 303/652-0870x117
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Scholarships for Techies!
> Can't afford IT training? All 2003 ictp students receive scholarships.
> Get hands-on training in Microsoft, Cisco, Sun, Linux/UNIX, and more.
> http://www.ictp.com/training/sourceforge.asp
> _______________________________________________
> Lse-tech mailing list
> Lse-tech@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lse-tech
>
>

I can't comment on the other problems you and Gerritt raised but there
is a simple URL you can use to get to the files on the download page.
The URL on the page for file `foo' is
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/lse/foo?download
If you delete `?download' and change `prdownloads' to `unc.dl' you get
a simple URL that can be used by `wget'. Turns out the `unc' part
identifies one of 8 different mirrors, you can change `unc' to anyone
of:
easynews
unm
twtelecom
telia
switch
belnet
cesnet
and still get the file.
This probably breaks some unwritten SourceForge rule and I admit it is
a little cumbersome but it does seem to work.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 06:35:32PM -0800, Martin J. Bligh wrote:
>
>...
>
> 1. I can scp a file to it.
> 2. I can email out a simple URL for people to get patches from
> (that works with wget and friends - ie no switch script garbage).
>
> Anything much heavier than this is just too much effort and burnt time.
> This is similar to other mutterings of discontent I've heard, but
> perhaps if others could list out their requirements too ???
>
> M.
>
> PS. To me, it's not two windows that are stuck, it's the front and back
> doors. Climbing in through the windows does work, but is rather incovenient.
--
Don Dugger
"Censeo Toto nos in Kansa esse decisse." - D. Gale
n0ano@...
Ph: 303/652-0870x117