It's three years to be vested for the pension plan but they also have a player annuity program that requires four years and I believe it is a much bigger chunk of change compared to the pension plan.

March 14th, 2013, 8:28 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

sweetd20 wrote:

It's three years to be vested for the pension plan but they also have a player annuity program that requires four years and I believe it is a much bigger chunk of change compared to the pension plan.

Thanks Sweet... I still say it sends a bad team image... More like "we're here to make money, take care of our guys, and fill the stands," more so than winning.

March 14th, 2013, 8:37 pm

sweetd20

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: October 13th, 2005, 9:03 amPosts: 2490

Re: Off-Season Moves

It might be why they are doing it and it might not I was just throwing it out there. I've known two guys that were diagnosed with terminal cancer and the companies they worked for both kept them on the payroll despite the fact they couldn't work. One was just under a year and the second was a little more than two years.

I can see short term how it might not look like a good move but sometimes when I guy lives to give his all for a company the guys calling the shots award that by doing the right thing. I'm sure there are numerous accounts that far out number this in football and other occupations but at some point these people have to look in the mirror and say they either did all they could for that person or they turned their back. In the long term if this is what they are doing its the right move regardless of the cost. As a fan it might not seem that great seeing that money just sitting there but it's not any worse than signing a guy like Nnamdi and having to eat multimillions in dead cap like the Eagles had to do.

March 14th, 2013, 8:53 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

sweetd20 wrote:

It might be why they are doing it and it might not I was just throwing it out there. I've known two guys that were diagnosed with terminal cancer and the companies they worked for both kept them on the payroll despite the fact they couldn't work. One was just under a year and the second was a little more than two years.

I can see short term how it might not look like a good move but sometimes when I guy lives to give his all for a company the guys calling the shots award that by doing the right thing. I'm sure there are numerous accounts that far out number this in football and other occupations but at some point these people have to look in the mirror and say they either did all they could for that person or they turned their back. In the long term if this is what they are doing its the right move regardless of the cost. As a fan it might not seem that great seeing that money just sitting there but it's not any worse than signing a guy like Nnamdi and having to eat multimillions in dead cap like the Eagles had to do.

Just seems to me that if that is in fact the case, we should do it in a way that minimizes the harm to the team. Why play with the handicap, just to get Best some charity? I mean, you can't recover cap space. The Lions would do him a better service by depositing $1 million in a trust for Best, or heck $2-5 million in a trust that names him the beneficiary (hell... I'd even be willing to write the damn trust and set it up for free!). That way everyone walks out clean. Best gets his retirement, the Lions get their cap space, and WCF can sleep at night.

Or they could start a non-profit 501(C)(3) corp for NFL players that have post-concussion syndrome, and help him out that way.

There are dozens of options that don't hurt the team. This isn't a "money" issue, it's a salary cap issue. The money is there to help this kid, but you can't buy back salary cap space.

It might be why they are doing it and it might not I was just throwing it out there. I've known two guys that were diagnosed with terminal cancer and the companies they worked for both kept them on the payroll despite the fact they couldn't work. One was just under a year and the second was a little more than two years.

I can see short term how it might not look like a good move but sometimes when I guy lives to give his all for a company the guys calling the shots award that by doing the right thing. I'm sure there are numerous accounts that far out number this in football and other occupations but at some point these people have to look in the mirror and say they either did all they could for that person or they turned their back. In the long term if this is what they are doing its the right move regardless of the cost. As a fan it might not seem that great seeing that money just sitting there but it's not any worse than signing a guy like Nnamdi and having to eat multimillions in dead cap like the Eagles had to do.

Just seems to me that if that is in fact the case, we should do it in a way that minimizes the harm to the team. Why play with the handicap, just to get Best some charity? I mean, you can't recover cap space. The Lions would do him a better service by depositing $1 million in a trust for Best, or heck $2-5 million in a trust that names him the beneficiary (hell... I'd even be willing to write the damn trust and set it up for free!). That way everyone walks out clean. Best gets his retirement, the Lions get their cap space, and WCF can sleep at night.

Or they could start a non-profit 501(C)(3) corp for NFL players that have post-concussion syndrome, and help him out that way.

There are dozens of options that don't hurt the team. This isn't a "money" issue, it's a salary cap issue. The money is there to help this kid, but you can't buy back salary cap space.

Not to say they have even looked into those good ideas, but it could be a rules issue that stops them for being able to be creative like that. The NFL has a lot of rules about alternate compensation to avoid players getting stuff under the table.

IMO it's also still to early to say it's hurting them. They have the space needed right now and they still have a ton of time to adjust things with Best.

March 14th, 2013, 9:10 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

sweetd20 wrote:

It might be why they are doing it and it might not I was just throwing it out there. I've known two guys that were diagnosed with terminal cancer and the companies they worked for both kept them on the payroll despite the fact they couldn't work. One was just under a year and the second was a little more than two years.

I can see short term how it might not look like a good move but sometimes when I guy lives to give his all for a company the guys calling the shots award that by doing the right thing. I'm sure there are numerous accounts that far out number this in football and other occupations but at some point these people have to look in the mirror and say they either did all they could for that person or they turned their back. In the long term if this is what they are doing its the right move regardless of the cost. As a fan it might not seem that great seeing that money just sitting there but it's not any worse than signing a guy like Nnamdi and having to eat multimillions in dead cap like the Eagles had to do.

Just seems to me that if that is in fact the case, we should do it in a way that minimizes the harm to the team. Why play with the handicap, just to get Best some charity? I mean, you can't recover cap space. The Lions would do him a better service by depositing $1 million in a trust for Best, or heck $2-5 million in a trust that names him the beneficiary (hell... I'd even be willing to write the damn trust and set it up for free!). That way everyone walks out clean. Best gets his retirement, the Lions get their cap space, and WCF can sleep at night.

Or they could start a non-profit 501(C)(3) corp for NFL players that have post-concussion syndrome, and help him out that way.

There are dozens of options that don't hurt the team. This isn't a "money" issue, it's a salary cap issue. The money is there to help this kid, but you can't buy back salary cap space.

Not to say they have even looked into those good ideas, but it could be a rules issue that stops them for being able to be creative like that. The NFL has a lot of rules about alternate compensation to avoid players getting stuff under the table.

IMO it's also still to early to say it's hurting them. They have the space needed right now and they still have a ton of time to adjust things with Best.

I can pretty much guaranty you that I could figure something that would be team-friendly and alleviate everyone's concerns. Even if the League wanted to hold the "trust" against the team's salary cap, you could have it pay out a $100k per year, reducing our cap liability by $750k.

Further, there couldn't be anything in the rules anywhere that stopped the NFL from donating to a charity 501(c)(3) corporation. Like I said, the Ford's, if they're concerned, should create a charity for ex-NFL players experiencing post-concussion syndrome. It would be an awesome, generous thing to do, and they could take care of Best, his health care needs, and provide him with some income. Hell, Javid Best could be the president of the charity, giving his life and career purpose. I'm really keen on this idea, and I'm going to propose it to WCF, honestly.

March 15th, 2013, 12:54 pm

TheRealWags

Megatron

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12534

Re: Off-Season Moves

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Like I said, the Ford's, if they're concerned, should create a charity for ex-NFL players experiencing post-concussion syndrome. It would be an awesome, generous thing to do, and they could take care of Best, his health care needs, and provide him with some income. Hell, Javid Best could be the president of the charity, giving his life and career purpose. I'm really keen on this idea, and I'm going to propose it to WCF, honestly.

That's actually a great idea. Why don't you look at getting it implemented? Hell, it might even help to pave your way into an NFL front office......

_________________

Quote:

Detroit vs. EverybodyClowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

March 15th, 2013, 12:57 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Like I said, the Ford's, if they're concerned, should create a charity for ex-NFL players experiencing post-concussion syndrome. It would be an awesome, generous thing to do, and they could take care of Best, his health care needs, and provide him with some income. Hell, Javid Best could be the president of the charity, giving his life and career purpose. I'm really keen on this idea, and I'm going to propose it to WCF, honestly.

That's actually a great idea. Why don't you look at getting it implemented? Hell, it might even help to pave your way into an NFL front office......

WCF Jr. will get a letter sent certified mail, return receipt requested next week.

March 15th, 2013, 1:02 pm

inheritedlionsfan

League MVP

Joined: January 13th, 2006, 4:18 amPosts: 3676Location: Maryland

Re: Off-Season Moves

Cards signed Antoine Cason for 1 year $2M. I don't love him as a player but he would have been good to have around, probably better than Bartell.

March 15th, 2013, 8:55 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5013Location: WSU

Re: Off-Season Moves

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

Cards signed Antoine Cason for 1 year $2M. I don't love him as a player but he would have been good to have around, probably better than Bartell.

Gotta wonder if the Lions understand this market at all, Willie Young was given $2mill and protected with a 2nd round tender. They could have given him the original round tender of $1.3, possibly lost him but receive a 7th rd pick and the cap space to sign someone like Cason. Im convinced that signing two players like Cason would ve been better than signing one player like Houston or Delmas, although I do like them both they re marginally better than Cason and not worth 2-3x the salary cap hit. In any event, Delmas at close to $5mill per year was right there with what wouldve been needed to sign Michael Bennet a proven DE. Regardless they rolled what seems to be a pricey gamble on Delmas' knees but werent willing to pay slightly more for Avril, who s pretty much been healthy and plays a position more important to the defense. We'll see what this means with the strategy moving forward. Maybe they think Washburn can work wonders with Willie Young but they must still have at least one veteran end on the radar that they would consider going after as some kind of reclamation project and probably need to draft a DE in Rd 1-2. That way, they move Jason Jones inside where he belongs. The other question comes on the OL where Backus, Peterman, Cherilus leaving was necessary but they seem to be short in replacements. Is Mayhew going to draft DE-OT or OT-DE in rounds 1-2 and still claim BPA?

Regardless, Im still upset by what I view as a disconnect bw the coaching staff and the FO. Why did this team go down the stretch with a 8 game losing streak playing guys they knew were not going to be back? Was it to save coaching jobs? Looks like no, because they lost all the games and still kept the head coach and coordinators? Once they were out of playoff contention, they should have shown some sort of committment to at least evaluating the younger players waiting in the wings. Reiff got just one start at a real OL position and wasted time as an H-back but is supposed to switch to RG or LT? Fox got pretty much no playing time but is now being slotted into the starting RT role? Hilliard's in the mix at RT, Austin didnt get off the practice squad but is a potential RG or C? Seems to me they knew that Reiff was going to have a big role this year but got him minimal playing time. They had to have known they werent going to keep Peterman and Cherilus but didnt take a real look at Fox or Hilliard. I just dont understand why they would choose to go into the offseason with less information and making it more of a leap of faith to move to these younger players.

March 16th, 2013, 12:21 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

The Legend wrote:

inheritedlionsfan wrote:

Cards signed Antoine Cason for 1 year $2M. I don't love him as a player but he would have been good to have around, probably better than Bartell.

Gotta wonder if the Lions understand this market at all, Willie Young was given $2mill and protected with a 2nd round tender. They could have given him the original round tender of $1.3, possibly lost him but receive a 7th rd pick and the cap space to sign someone like Cason. Im convinced that signing two players like Cason would ve been better than signing one player like Houston or Delmas, although I do like them both they re marginally better than Cason and not worth 2-3x the salary cap hit. In any event, Delmas at close to $5mill per year was right there with what wouldve been needed to sign Michael Bennet a proven DE. Regardless they rolled what seems to be a pricey gamble on Delmas' knees but werent willing to pay slightly more for Avril, who s pretty much been healthy and plays a position more important to the defense. We'll see what this means with the strategy moving forward. Maybe they think Washburn can work wonders with Willie Young but they must still have at least one veteran end on the radar that they would consider going after as some kind of reclamation project and probably need to draft a DE in Rd 1-2. That way, they move Jason Jones inside where he belongs. The other question comes on the OL where Backus, Peterman, Cherilus leaving was necessary but they seem to be short in replacements. Is Mayhew going to draft DE-OT or OT-DE in rounds 1-2 and still claim BPA?

Regardless, Im still upset by what I view as a disconnect bw the coaching staff and the FO. Why did this team go down the stretch with a 8 game losing streak playing guys they knew were not going to be back? Was it to save coaching jobs? Looks like no, because they lost all the games and still kept the head coach and coordinators? Once they were out of playoff contention, they should have shown some sort of committment to at least evaluating the younger players waiting in the wings. Reiff got just one start at a real OL position and wasted time as an H-back but is supposed to switch to RG or LT? Fox got pretty much no playing time but is now being slotted into the starting RT role? Hilliard's in the mix at RT, Austin didnt get off the practice squad but is a potential RG or C? Seems to me they knew that Reiff was going to have a big role this year but got him minimal playing time. They had to have known they werent going to keep Peterman and Cherilus but didnt take a real look at Fox or Hilliard. I just dont understand why they would choose to go into the offseason with less information and making it more of a leap of faith to move to these younger players.

You can't look at signings like Cason unless there was news the Lions reached out. Not only did 30 other teams not bring him in, but Cason is from Long Beach and went to college in Arizona. Why would he leave the west for DET. I lived in CA for 6 years and just came back to MI after some medical problems, but I assure you I'll be going back once my life is back to being more stable. I've met a lot of people that were born in CA and most never leave or always stay nearby, so I would be surprised if Cason even listened to offers from non-western teams if the money on the table is only $2M. People constantly overlook the fact these players are still people and don't always want to move across country. These short term lost cost deals will almost always go to teams that are in contention or near places with some kind of history with the player.

March 16th, 2013, 2:00 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

You can't look at signings like Cason unless there was news the Lions reached out. Not only did 30 other teams not bring him in, but Cason is from Long Beach and went to college in Arizona. Why would he leave the west for DET. I lived in CA for 6 years and just came back to MI after some medical problems, but I assure you I'll be going back once my life is back to being more stable. I've met a lot of people that were born in CA and most never leave or always stay nearby, so I would be surprised if Cason even listened to offers from non-western teams if the money on the table is only $2M. People constantly overlook the fact these players are still people and don't always want to move across country. These short term lost cost deals will almost always go to teams that are in contention or near places with some kind of history with the player.

For $500k, a 25% increase in pay, he moves across the country... JS...

You can't look at signings like Cason unless there was news the Lions reached out. Not only did 30 other teams not bring him in, but Cason is from Long Beach and went to college in Arizona. Why would he leave the west for DET. I lived in CA for 6 years and just came back to MI after some medical problems, but I assure you I'll be going back once my life is back to being more stable. I've met a lot of people that were born in CA and most never leave or always stay nearby, so I would be surprised if Cason even listened to offers from non-western teams if the money on the table is only $2M. People constantly overlook the fact these players are still people and don't always want to move across country. These short term lost cost deals will almost always go to teams that are in contention or near places with some kind of history with the player.

For $500k, a 25% increase in pay, he moves across the country... JS...

On a one year deal when he has lived in SD for four years, no he doesn't.

March 16th, 2013, 2:20 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Off-Season Moves

rao wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

rao wrote:

You can't look at signings like Cason unless there was news the Lions reached out. Not only did 30 other teams not bring him in, but Cason is from Long Beach and went to college in Arizona. Why would he leave the west for DET. I lived in CA for 6 years and just came back to MI after some medical problems, but I assure you I'll be going back once my life is back to being more stable. I've met a lot of people that were born in CA and most never leave or always stay nearby, so I would be surprised if Cason even listened to offers from non-western teams if the money on the table is only $2M. People constantly overlook the fact these players are still people and don't always want to move across country. These short term lost cost deals will almost always go to teams that are in contention or near places with some kind of history with the player.

For $500k, a 25% increase in pay, he moves across the country... JS...

On a one year deal when he has lived in SD for four years, no he doesn't.

I disagree... It's 20 weeks, you take the $500k, all day. That's a sh!tload of money for someone in his position.