Post by mardude on May 19, 2013 0:09:01 GMT -5

And instead of saying all of your goodbyes - let them know you realize that life goes fast - It's hard to make the good things last-you realize the sun doesn't go down - It's just an illusion caused by the world spinning round

Post by nuevodudezer47 on May 21, 2013 14:51:18 GMT -5

Lyrics aside, the production was really something. Very excited for this album.

This is the fundamental problem I have with Kanye. Lyrics aside? His genre is rap. Lyrics are sort of a big part of that genre. If your flow is limited and your lyrics shallow and stupid, then it's going to be hard for me to enjoy your RAP song, production aside. Maybe if he puts out instrumental albums, I'll buy those so I can skip having to listen to Kanye complain about more stuff that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Post by jakicker on May 21, 2013 16:12:05 GMT -5

I finally heard the two new songs. Black Skinhead is really really good. It reminds me of NiN. New Slaves is great for its lyrical value. I've never been excited for a Kanye album before, but I am now.

Post by CPK on May 21, 2013 22:15:54 GMT -5

I do not understand some of you thinking Ye is not good lyrically. IMO he is one if the best lyricist in the game. Does he have some corny lyrics sometime? Yes, but I also think that is calculated. Pusha said when they were recording "Runaway" that Kanye made him rewrite his verse several times bc it was not corny enough. A lot of Kanye tracks are thought out lyrically not just thrown together. I just do not understand where some of you are coming from when it comes to his lyrics

Post by postjack on May 21, 2013 23:06:04 GMT -5

I finally heard the two new songs. Black Skinhead is really really good. It reminds me of NiN. New Slaves is great for its lyrical value. I've never been excited for a Kanye album before, but I am now.

In a rap/EDM world where everything is moving toward bouncy trap style music complete with lasers and electro fun type beats, leave it to Kanye to produce fracking industrial tracks. Its insane and at the same time a perfect Kanye move. I loved the SNL performances.

I also love a lot of Kanye's lyrics because they are clever and make me either laugh or otherwise have like a "woah" type of emotional reaction to their content. But I don't consider him a great MC, not in a world where we still have Chali 2na, GZA, Ghost, etc.

Post by Mista Don't Play on May 22, 2013 10:24:58 GMT -5

I do not understand some of you thinking Ye is not good lyrically. IMO he is one if the best lyricist in the game. Does he have some corny lyrics sometime? Yes, but I also think that is calculated. Pusha said when they were recording "Runaway" that Kanye made him rewrite his verse several times bc it was not corny enough. A lot of Kanye tracks are thought out lyrically not just thrown together. I just do not understand where some of you are coming from when it comes to his lyrics

Kanye has greatly improved his rapping ability. He has increased the complexity of some of the structure, better wordplay, etc. but he is still pretty far from one of the best pure "lyricist" in the genre. His musical vision will always be the strongest part of his craft.

I do not understand some of you thinking Ye is not good lyrically. IMO he is one if the best lyricist in the game. Does he have some corny lyrics sometime? Yes, but I also think that is calculated. Pusha said when they were recording "Runaway" that Kanye made him rewrite his verse several times bc it was not corny enough. A lot of Kanye tracks are thought out lyrically not just thrown together. I just do not understand where some of you are coming from when it comes to his lyrics

Assuming you've listened to most of Kenye's catalog, I have to assume the issue here is just not listening to enough good lyricists. He's not bad IMO, and like you said, many of his lyrics are thought out. The problem is that when he brings his A-game it's good, and when he doesn't, it's average. When I listen to hip hop, it's from the purists point of view, which states that hip hop derived from poetry. When it comes to rap, it's lyrics first, and production second. Now, I love what Kanye is doing with main-stream production, but he's actually worsened as a lyricist IMO. When I see someone like Kanye blow up, and start acting like Jesus Christ himself, I expect him to elevate his game. It seems like he rests on the fact that he's a good producer and doesn't put as much thought into the content of his songs.

Post by bansheebeat on May 22, 2013 10:35:31 GMT -5

I think Kanye can be great lyrically when he wants to. His verse on this song is great (starts at around 1:00). Plus College Dropout is extremely well put together lyrically.

EDIT: Also saying playing guitar takes more talent than producing is ignorant. As someone who has been playing saxophone for ~10 years and producing for around 4 years I'll say that they are both equally challenging in their own ways.

Post by Black Dynamite on May 22, 2013 11:05:10 GMT -5

I think Kanye can be great lyrically when he wants to. His verse on this song is great (starts at around 1:00). Plus College Dropout is extremely well put together lyrically.

EDIT: Also saying playing guitar takes more talent than producing is ignorant. As someone who has been playing saxophone for ~10 years and producing for around 4 years I'll say that they are both equally challenging in their own ways.

First of all, I'm jealous of your saxophone skills. I've always loved the sound of that instrument. Second of all, I agree that they both bring their own challanges, but IMO, guitar is harder. Both have unique obstacles, but producing doesn't have any physical obstacles. I think guitar takes more mental and physical persistence, therefore, I think it's harder. I really don't think it's ignorant or ridiculous or anything along those lines. Just my opinion. Some people can so offended by one little remark. I praised both of them, and just said that when comparing the two, I think one is harder than the other. Does anyone REALLY believe that no matter what, making music is equally as complicated on any instrument or device?

If song content is a factor in the term "lyricist", I have to disagree. He can be great, but isn't often enough to be anything other than good IMO. He is witty with his word play sometimes, but so is Lil' Wayne... Again this isn't me knocking Kanye West. It's just being honest and saying that he could, and should do better. He is great at what he does in general, but overall, lyrics are the one area where I'd like to see more.

Post by Flanz on May 22, 2013 11:11:21 GMT -5

If song content is a factor in the term "lyricist", I have to disagree. He can be great, but isn't often enough be anything other than good IMO. He is witty with his word play sometimes, but so is Lil' Wayne...

Song content is relevant in what way?

And if you could provide some examples/details/facts it would be appreciated.

Post by Black Dynamite on May 22, 2013 11:28:33 GMT -5

If song content is a factor in the term "lyricist", I have to disagree. He can be great, but isn't often enough be anything other than good IMO. He is witty with his word play sometimes, but so is Lil' Wayne...

Song content is relevant in what way?

And if you could provide some examples/details/facts it would be appreciated.

Well at least with my interpretation of the word lyricist, I consider the overall story, or theme, to be a huge part. Every word and sentence should be carefully selected to support an overall theme or concept. For example, the word "love" can be in 2 songs, and in the first song, it could be a horribly used, corny lyric. In the second song it could fit beautifully and tie the song together. Kanye West has a decent vocabulary, and is improving in terms of song structure, but the impact of his words is underwhelming to me when compared to his social status and production quality. As another poster mentioned before, I think Kanye West really peaked lyrically on College Dropout.

Post by FuzzyWarbles on May 22, 2013 11:32:17 GMT -5

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.

Post by FuzzyWarbles on May 22, 2013 11:33:37 GMT -5

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.

Post by Black Dynamite on May 22, 2013 11:46:55 GMT -5

Can you provide an example of someone who you would say is a great lyricist?

It's probably just a difference in opinion. We both obviously are aware of his catalog.

NasBig LAtmosphereRakimPhonte

Just a few random ones from all different angles of hip hop. I don't think Kanye is bad, I just don't think he's as great lyrically as he should be. He, like Jay-Z, is just a little lazy lyrically. He puts more emphasis on flow and mass appeal IMO.