In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

hubiestubert:In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

With the death of the USSR Cuba got marginally weaker, but they became a much bigger player with oil money in South America. The US can't let them off the hook yet, if only because Venezuela has turned into a shiathole simply to funnel money to Cuba.

If Cuba wants to play nice, we can play nice, but they are going to have to give up delusions of grandeur about running all of South America by proxy.

Wow. A Republican (my freshman Senator) wants to open up Cuba while a Dem does not. That's an interesting thing.

Oh and

U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., helped forge the compromise that last week left the Senate's filibuster largely intact. Former U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., also contributed to the negotiations. Although the filibuster is much-maligned by some, eliminating its 60-vote requirement "would have fundamentally changed the United States Senate forever," McCain told The Republic.

Nadie_AZ:Wow. A Republican (my freshman Senator) wants to open up Cuba while a Dem does not. That's an interesting thing.

Oh and

U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., helped forge the compromise that last week left the Senate's filibuster largely intact. Former U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., also contributed to the negotiations. Although the filibuster is much-maligned by some, eliminating its 60-vote requirement "would have fundamentally changed the United States Senate forever," McCain told The Republic.

I'm sorry guys. I've voted against these idiots as often as I can.

Redi knew if he got rid of the filibuster that the Senate would turn into the House. They did get rid of the "automatic" filibuster, so that's progress.

Actually, it's probably a good idea. Remove the travel restrictions and Americans (including spring breakers) go in droves. Their money gives individual Cubans some measure of independence and choice that they've never had. Plus, they see the freedoms Americans have first hand and hear stories directly instead of filtered through State approved sources. Next thing you know, they're having a "Cuban Spring" demanding freedom for themselves...

Flint Ironstag:Always wondered why the US banned all travel and trade with Cuba while buying billions of dollars of Chinese goods. They're both communist.

Because Cuba was Communist in Florida's back yard. Not allowed as per the Monroe Doctrine, etc.

Seriously, however, the Arizona Senator has a point. Legalize soft drugs at the same time, but distribute them only via taxable outlets. Retrain all the surplus cops as youth outreach workers. Win-win-win.

hubiestubert:In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

Flint Ironstag:Always wondered why the US banned all travel and trade with Cuba while buying billions of dollars of Chinese goods. They're both communist.

Special interest groups sponsored by Las Vegas casinos. Blatantly obvious: gamble in a tropical paradise or the shiat-hole that Vegas has become.You open up Cuba and Vegas will go broke from loss of revenue as east coast gamblers and travelers will seek warmer climes.

Lsherm:With the death of the USSR Cuba got marginally weaker, but they became a much bigger player with oil money in South America. The US can't let them off the hook yet, if only because Venezuela has turned into a shiathole simply to funnel money to Cuba.

Why is it the farking business of the United States what Cuba or Venezuela does with their money? They're independent countries. The US claims to be about freedom but its own citizens are restricted from Cuba because the US government wants to tell Venezuela how to handle their internal affairs? Doesn't sound like land of the free to me. It's not about letting anyone "off the hook". It's about respecting the sovereignty of other nations and the freedom of US citizens. It's been half a century since Cuba posed a legitimate military threat to the United States. Now it's simply about the type of politics that keeps the world in conflict.

Lsherm:hubiestubert: In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

With the death of the USSR Cuba got marginally weaker, but they became a much bigger player with oil money in South America. The US can't let them off the hook yet, if only because Venezuela has turned into a shiathole simply to funnel money to Cuba.

And Cuba is willing to take it because it specifically tweaks the USA's stupid little ban. Communism is not fought by becoming communists, but the right-wing commies in the USA refuse to understand this. A collectivist system in which "industry" is so closely in control of government that the two are indisitinguishable is communism in all but name, after all. It doesn't how much it might wave around the American flag and carry the Cross.

EngineerAU:Lsherm: With the death of the USSR Cuba got marginally weaker, but they became a much bigger player with oil money in South America. The US can't let them off the hook yet, if only because Venezuela has turned into a shiathole simply to funnel money to Cuba.

Why is it the farking business of the United States what Cuba or Venezuela does with their money?t.

In The Simpsons, all lunch money belongs to Nelson, hence Nelson's interest in all lunch money.

JosephFinn:hubiestubert: In fairness, ending this ban on travel, and letting market forces work is probably the way to go. We hold onto our policy because there is a generation of Cuban expatriates who dream that they will regain what they had, and with great vengeance. They are quietly dying off. If anything, the looming threat of the US has cohesed the Cuban government and made their position stronger. Open the doors and let the market do the rest.

Well, this and the fact that the US didn't like the fact their attempt at Regime change failed. The Soviets and the United States played a cruel game of cold war chess using third and second world nations

clowncar on fire:Flint Ironstag: Always wondered why the US banned all travel and trade with Cuba while buying billions of dollars of Chinese goods. They're both communist.

Special interest groups sponsored by Las Vegas casinos. Blatantly obvious: gamble in a tropical paradise or the shiat-hole that Vegas has become.You open up Cuba and Vegas will go broke from loss of revenue as east coast gamblers and travelers will seek warmer climes.

From Arizona? oh, goodieAs a native Miamian (go ahead, mock) this is funnyThere are enough politically connected Cubans in this area to drown out this idea if they choose

If any of you are interested, look into plans for Castro's demise - not that part about Miami having riot contingency plans but what large corporations (ie, bacardi) already have laid claims to large swaths of the island. There is anticipation of years of litigation between corporate interests and exiles' claims to the same property - it will be interesting.

FWIW - my family used to go to cuba for dinner and a show way back when - but i doubt what we need is a new corporate run tourist site in a disaster prone area.