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Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

You seem to do be doing fine from an RP perspective. Someone needs to speak up for not cooperating with all the dodgy people, irrespective of whether that's what you end up doing.

I mean in my lack of posting and weak posts when I do.

Originally Posted by Togo

I'm happy to summarise the plot. More than one person is a bit lost.

I would appreciate that. My work schedule should be relaxing (less internal company stresses on me, and more on stress from customers ... which is a lot easier to deal with), so maybe I'll be able to post more often.

Originally Posted by Togo

As for mechanics, it's possible I was too harsh when doing your build. Another hit dice or two might help? I suspect you're also underestimating yourself. Power attacking enemies can do huge amounts of damage, but the limit is AC. Your elephant got splatted because its AC was so low - the same attackers would struggle to do the same damage to you. Buff spells and effects would also make a big difference - you're playing one of the better platforms in the game for such.

I'm pretty sure we're using my savage progression, which is pretty accurate for power (if I do say so myself ), though he isn't min/max'ed very well. He's missing equipment that I hope to get within the next few in-game days.

For buffs, he most certainly is a good platform for it. Between his speed, strength, and carrying capacity he could even be a platform for the party ...

For AC, with a wand of armor and a wand of shield, he'd have AC 34. Add in party-generated natural armor enhancement bonuses, a deflection bonus ... we should be able to get his AC towards 40.

Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.

RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Obrysii, Umbriel can give you Greater Mage Armor instead of you using your wand - it's an extra +2 AC, it's more resilient against dispels, and it's an infinitely renewable resource

I can also give you Extended Spiderskin, which is +5 natural armor.

I don't know of a wizard spell that gives a long-lasting deflection bonus to AC. There are cleric buffs that would help further, like Recitation and Mass Shield of Faith. Even with just Spiderskin+Greater Mage Armor, though, it looks like that would take your all-day AC to 37, which seems pretty good.

The classic dragon offensive buff is Fires of Purity, which is both in-flavor for a gold dragon and gets more awesome the more attacks you have (it would also go very well on Rhion). Umbriel doesn't have it at the moment, but if she can find a wizard willing to trade spells, it would be on her shopping list (or I could buy and scribe a scroll, but I might ask you guys to chip in, in that case, as buying new high-level spells as scrolls gets expensive fast).

Xiuhcoatl might also want an extended Resist Energy (Cold), and I'd be happy to give you an extended Heroics for Power Attack or another feat of your choice. I suggest Power Attack just because Godot's awesome buffs make hitting rather easier than usual

Dragons are fun to buff (as are warshapers, for that matter)

Also, for wondrous items, if we have downtime and get some XP rewards, I am willing to craft stuff for the rest of the party, you don't need to buy everything from ripoff merchants

Last edited by Ifni; 2011-10-10 at 11:53 AM.

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Originally Posted by The_Snark

I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Plot Summary

The Well of Souls is a magical mirror that was dug up from some ancient ruins in an area called the Monkey's Spiral. The first owner was Korolis, a evil deity of ooze and corruption. He was killed by a coalition of Heroes and Gods. The mirror crops up in various legends and myths since then.

Kalinor 'the Golden' is a merchant from a country called Chaldecott. He's here to try and sell mirrors, including magical and unbreakable mirrors, to people in Sigil. He has asked you to help recover the Well of Souls which was stolen from him a few days ago.

He has two people working for him, as well as about 30 guards and cart drivers.

Uzark is a wizard with an odd accent who specialises in planar mechanics. He comes from a tribe known for diabolism, that inhabits an area called the Monkey's Spiral.

Nephria is a very neat gothic-looking lady. She was already in Sigil when Kalinor arrived. It was she who was in charge of the Well of Souls when it was stolen. She has indicated that she'd like to talk more about what is going on, but is constrained by her duty to Kalinor.

The Children of Korolis are a group that also want the Well of Souls. They are apparently led by Caspar, who lives somewhere called Akania. This can be reached via a gate in the Sewers.

His agent is Lycanthe, who just attacked you, but you decided to let her go after she suggested that Kalinor never had the mirror in the first place, and had allied with demons who invaded his own country.

She also said that Caspar's allies (unknown who they are) believed that Cyric had the mirror in Sigil. There's some disagreement about what that means

Cyric is an evil God of Evil and Trickery who is busy conquering his homeworld. He comes up in some of the rumours about the mirror, and Lycanthe tells you that Caspar's allies think that he has the mirror. Gods can't enter Sigil, so she assumes this means that he has people in Sigil who have it.

So far you've met Kalinor, entered Sigil, met some random people at the market, been attacked by assasins of the Iron Tower hired by persons unknown, gone to stay with Kalinor, gone out in the evening with a large mirror in the cart to see if anyone would try to attack you, and been attacked by Lycanthe and her minions. You're about to spend your first night.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Originally Posted by Togo

Plot Summary

The Well of Souls is a magical mirror that was dug up from some ancient ruins in an area called the Monkey's Spiral. The first owner was Korolis, a evil deity of ooze and corruption. He was killed by a coalition of Heroes and Gods. The mirror crops up in various legends and myths since then.

Kalinor 'the Golden' is a merchant from a country called Chaldecott. He's here to try and sell mirrors, including magical and unbreakable mirrors, to people in Sigil. He has asked you to help recover the Well of Souls which was stolen from him a few days ago.

He has two people working for him, as well as about 30 guards and cart drivers.

Uzark is a wizard with an odd accent who specialises in planar mechanics. He comes from a tribe known for diabolism, that inhabits an area called the Monkey's Spiral.

Nephria is a very neat gothic-looking lady. She was already in Sigil when Kalinor arrived. It was she who was in charge of the Well of Souls when it was stolen. She has indicated that she'd like to talk more about what is going on, but is constrained by her duty to Kalinor.

The Children of Korolis are a group that also want the Well of Souls. They are apparently led by Caspar, who lives somewhere called Akania. This can be reached via a gate in the Sewers.

His agent is Lycanthe, who just attacked you, but you decided to let her go after she suggested that Kalinor never had the mirror in the first place, and had allied with demons who invaded his own country.

She also said that Caspar's allies (unknown who they are) believed that Cyric had the mirror in Sigil. There's some disagreement about what that means

Cyric is an evil God of Evil and Trickery who is busy conquering his homeworld. He comes up in some of the rumours about the mirror, and Lycanthe tells you that Caspar's allies think that he has the mirror. Gods can't enter Sigil, so she assumes this means that he has people in Sigil who have it.

So far you've met Kalinor, entered Sigil, met some random people at the market, been attacked by assasins of the Iron Tower hired by persons unknown, gone to stay with Kalinor, gone out in the evening with a large mirror in the cart to see if anyone would try to attack you, and been attacked by Lycanthe and her minions. You're about to spend your first night.

Thanks! For this summary of the first 4 hours . If we live to see next week, we'll be epic . But seriously, I kind of needed this.

So, Uzark is actually from the place where the mirror was first found? Had not noticed that.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

So, Uzark is actually from the place where the mirror was first found? Had not noticed that.

I think that was pretty recent, Lycanthe told us Kalinor had a demonologist from the Monkey's Spiral.

Also, Ifni, is that spider skin an enhancement bonus?

It's an enhancement bonus to natural armor. It'll stack with a creature's base natural armor, or with non-natural-armor bonuses, but not with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor.

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Originally Posted by The_Snark

I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

If any are available, I'll write out a post of him exploring and seeking them out.

Edit: Another thought - if Xiulcoatl continues to lag behind the others in power / ability, perhaps we could use the variant reach rules for dragons (per Draconomicon)? He'd only gain reach, not lose anything like some dragons do ... (his tail would become 15ft reach instead of 10ft).

Last edited by Obrysii; 2011-10-11 at 04:13 PM.

Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.

RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

It targets everything on the creature, but each effect then requires a caster level check. I see no reason why you can't intentionally fail such a check, provided you have some way of telling them apart and plenty of time.

However, there are no dispellable effects apart from Godot's dominate, so in this case the question is probably moot.

Expansion (Augmented) would be a two-size increase item - and the big difference otherwise is Expansion works on non-humanoids, where Enlarge Person does not.

If allowed, it would (for some duration) make me Gargantuan ... dramatically upping my combat and mass-transit ability.

Having discussed with real-life friends, it seems my strategy should be using that lengthy tail of mine to trip opponents. In general, it appears that natural weapons do not provoke AoOs from trips (we can't find anything that says they do) and as a Large quadruped, I'd have a +8 bonus on them. If you ruled my tail does have extended reach, that'll just assist in that way.

Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.

RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Expansion (Augmented) would be a two-size increase item - and the big difference otherwise is Expansion works on non-humanoids, where Enlarge Person does not.

If allowed, it would (for some duration) make me Gargantuan ... dramatically upping my combat and mass-transit ability.

Having discussed with real-life friends, it seems my strategy should be using that lengthy tail of mine to trip opponents. In general, it appears that natural weapons do not provoke AoOs from trips (we can't find anything that says they do) and as a Large quadruped, I'd have a +8 bonus on them. If you ruled my tail does have extended reach, that'll just assist in that way.

The effect seems reasonable. I'll have to work out a suitable cost unless anyone has an example costing to hand.

To be clear, it would grant the size and stat changes listed under the expansion entry (+4 to str, etc.). Because you were bigger it would also increase your damage as per the Dragon Space/Reach, Attacks, and Damage table in the Monster Manual. This also grants the crush and tail sweep special attacks, and increases the range (but not damage or save DC) of your breath weapon.

Tripping with a weapon, including a natural weapon, does not provoke. However, only a limited number of weapons can actually do this. I'm willing to add your tail (and only your tail) to that list. You don't get extra reach with your tail.

As a large creature you get +4 for being large and you add your str bonus. As a gargantuan creature you would get +12 for being gargantuan and add your (improved) str bonus. You only get the quadraped bonus for resisting being tripped.

The nice thing about tripping is that you ignore BAB entirely. It's just strength and size.

If you fail to trip your opponent, then as usual they get a free attempt to trip you. You can't drop your weapon to avoid being tripped because it's attached to your spine.

Note also that tripping does no damage. It can be very effective at stopping opponents getting into attack range though.

Also, fair warning, you're likely to get into situations where there simply isn't room for a gargantuan dragon.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

The effect seems reasonable. I'll have to work out a suitable cost unless anyone has an example costing to hand.

The problem I'm having with my own players. By RAW it's only 10k, but its effects are much too nice for such a little price.

Originally Posted by Togo

To be clear, it would grant the size and stat changes listed under the expansion entry (+4 to str, etc.). Because you were bigger it would also increase your damage as per the Dragon Space/Reach, Attacks, and Damage table in the Monster Manual. This also grants the crush and tail sweep special attacks, and increases the range (but not damage or save DC) of your breath weapon.

Precisely. It'll also improve my carrying capacity due simply to the multiplicative effects of size increases.

Originally Posted by Togo

Tripping with a weapon, including a natural weapon, does not provoke. However, only a limited number of weapons can actually do this. I'm willing to add your tail (and only your tail) to that list. You don't get extra reach with your tail.

Aw, okay on the tail. I'm a bit confused on the rest of what you said - natural weapons don't provoke, but you're willing to make a tail one of the weapons that don't provoke?

Originally Posted by Togo

As a large creature you get +4 for being large and you add your str bonus. As a gargantuan creature you would get +12 for being gargantuan and add your (improved) str bonus. You only get the quadraped bonus for resisting being tripped.

Hm, I could have swore quadrupeds get a bonus on trip attempts made, not just defended against.

Originally Posted by Togo

If you fail to trip your opponent, then as usual they get a free attempt to trip you. You can't drop your weapon to avoid being tripped because it's attached to your spine.

While RAW, how do you trip a dragon with his own tail? Especially if he's hovering?

Originally Posted by Togo

Note also that tripping does no damage. It can be very effective at stopping opponents getting into attack range though.

No, but it'd do tail slap damage.

Originally Posted by Togo

Also, fair warning, you're likely to get into situations where there simply isn't room for a gargantuan dragon.

Of course. I doubt there are many places in Sigil, save the sky itself, that could fit one.

Last edited by Obrysii; 2011-10-14 at 06:27 PM.

Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.

RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

On a more general note, it is clearly possible to get magical items. However, such things are not sold in actual shops. Cheaper items may be from street vendors, more expensive items would have to be tracked down to individual visiting merchants, or acquired through guilds, contacts, or even a faction or institution that makes them. Or you could have something made, but you don't really have time for that. The point is that most magic items cost the same as outfitting a squad of armoured knights, or buying a small naval vessel. You just don't get enough people doing it to develop any kind of passing trade. People look for you because they know what they want

I'm happy with junk or magical curio shops, but no descriptions of dedicated retail space please.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Aw, okay on the tail. I'm a bit confused on the rest of what you said - natural weapons don't provoke, but you're willing to make a tail one of the weapons that don't provoke?

Tripping with weapons (including natural weapons) doesn't provoke AoOs, but not all weapons can be used to make trip attempts. For example, you can trip with a guisarme, but not a greatsword. Togo's letting you treat your tail as a tripping weapon.

While RAW, how do you trip a dragon with his own tail?

Same way you can trap a person's foot and yank them off balance if they try to trip you. Of course, dragons are more stable than bipeds, but that's why they get the quadruped bonus (EDIT: Heh, Togo had a better answer here And Togo, sorry if this was stepping on your toes, I wasn't sure when you'd have a chance to reply and all the rules involved seemed pretty unambiguous, so I thought I'd try to clarify.)

No, but it'd do tail slap damage.

When making a trip attempt, you give up your standard damage (unless you have something like the wolf's special Trip ability); you're trying to unbalance them, not hit them at full force. On the upside, you get to make a touch attack rather than a regular melee attack. If you have the Improved Trip feat, you get a free normal attack if you successfully trip them.

Honestly, I suspect Xiuhcoatl will be most effective in melee combat just unleashing horrible Godot-buffed full attacks on things

If anyone has buffing requests, please let me know, I'll be adjusting my spell list for the day in the next few hours.

Last edited by Ifni; 2011-10-14 at 06:40 PM.

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Originally Posted by The_Snark

I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Aw, okay on the tail. I'm a bit confused on the rest of what you said - natural weapons don't provoke, but you're willing to make a tail one of the weapons that don't provoke?

Usually you can't make a trip attack attack with a weapon unless it specifically says you can - generally weapons with hooks or bends - but I'm happy to rule that you can trip with a tail.

Originally Posted by Obrysii

Hm, I could have swore quadrupeds get a bonus on trip attempts made, not just defended against.

I'm looking at the SRD - usually reliable, but not always. If you find a rule that says I'm wrong, let me know.

Originally Posted by Obrysii

While RAW, how do you trip a dragon with his own tail? Especially if he's hovering?

According to cartoons, you grab the tail, heave it over one shoulder, and start spining the dragon around in a circle. This is something that's only going to be possible for those with enormous strength, size, or both, since they're the only people likely to beat you in a straight str+size check anyway.

Originally Posted by Obrysii

No, but it'd do tail slap damage.

I don't believe it would. Tripping never does damage. The improved trip feat allows you to make a follow up attack, but the trip itself just makes the opponent prone.

Originally Posted by Obrysii

Of course. I doubt there are many places in Sigil, save the sky itself, that could fit one.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Originally Posted by Ifni

If anyone has buffing requests, please let me know, I'll be adjusting my spell list for the day in the next few hours.

Arrogant and proud as he is, Derk will still be happy with the natural armor bonus you can provide. He is definately not used to the beating he recieved this day. He is devoted to standing in the line of fire to protect his friends, but this was intense despite his already respectable AC.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Originally Posted by Ifni

Tripping with weapons (including natural weapons) doesn't provoke AoOs, but not all weapons can be used to make trip attempts. For example, you can trip with a guisarme, but not a greatsword. Togo's letting you treat your tail as a tripping weapon.

I was under the impression that any natural weapon could be used, just as any form of Unarmed Strike can be used.

Originally Posted by Ifni

Honestly, I suspect Xiuhcoatl will be most effective in melee combat just unleashing horrible Godot-buffed full attacks on things

If anyone has buffing requests, please let me know, I'll be adjusting my spell list for the day in the next few hours.

Very possibly.

Also, I'd like any kind of AC booster and attack booster you have available.

Originally Posted by Togo

According to cartoons, you grab the tail, heave it over one shoulder, and start spining the dragon around in a circle. This is something that's only going to be possible for those with enormous strength, size, or both, since they're the only people likely to beat you in a straight str+size check anyway.

So long as the enemy yells "BAM! BAM!" I think we'll be okay.

Originally Posted by Togo

Are you looking for size increase 1/day, 3/day, or what?

Any or all. Whatever is available. Beggars can't be choosers, and I'm definitely begging.

Pointing out hypocrisy is not disrespect.

RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

On the expansion item:

I'm not the most rules-savvy guy, but a quick look at the creating custom magical item guidelines suggest that a 1/day augmented expansion item would be (Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp), which is 12600 gp, I think.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Okay, I am definitely planning to provide:

-Chained Greater Magic Weapon, CL 20 (makes weapons +5, can't remember if I get 20 or 21 targets, if it matters I'll check). This won't work on natural weapons, unfortunately; sorry Xiuhcoatl. It will work on monk unarmed strike.
-Extended Spiderskin for Derk, Rhion, Xiuhcoatl and Simon. Please let me know if you are on this list and will NOT benefit from a +5 enhancement bonus to natural armor.
-Greater Mage Armor for Xiuhcoatl, I think everyone else has armor.

As far as long-lasting attack buffs go, I think the best I can do is Heroics, unless you want to spend 100gp on Create Magic Tattoo from the Spell Compendium (let me know if you do, it'll last two days when extended). The spell confers a fighter bonus feat the target qualifies for. In my current tentative spell selection I have three slots assigned to Heroics: please feel free to tell me your character's favorite fighter bonus feat

I guess we may also want to sell loot at some point. For reference, here's my list from the first combat - Togo, do the bracers of ogre power count as a conventional or unconventional slot, for price? I've priced them as gauntlets of ogre power here, i.e. 4000gp each.

By my count we have nearly 100k worth of gear there, although of course it'd only be 50k if we sold everything.

Last edited by Ifni; 2011-10-17 at 12:43 PM.

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Originally Posted by The_Snark

I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

I'm going to tell you up front, in the interests of not leading the group up a blind ally, that I don't believe you can cure this guy with the resources you have in this room. Feel free to surprise me, but I don't want to lead you astray on this one.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Originally Posted by Toliudar

If you're willing to do the Create Magic Tattoo thing, Godot would be willing to spring for 100gp/day to get the +1 Caster Level option.

Most certainly! Umbriel would be pleased to have an opportunity to practice her calligraphy skills (Warning: tattoos drawn by an Int-29 Illumian wizard may lead to unexpected vocabulary expansion.) And it'd be 50 gp/day, spells that cost money get priority for Extend rod charges.

Okay, I will note Heroics: Power Attack for Xiuhcoatl. I know Derk turned it down... are there any fighter bonus feats Simon and Rhion find particularly attractive? (or Godot or Sthrer, but I'm figuring fighter feats will be less useful for them)

I realize my last post was potentially unclear: Heroics is free and grants a fighter bonus feat. Create Magic Tattoo costs 100gp and lasts a day (2 days if extended); it can confer a range of benefits. The best benefits are generally +1 CL (as Godot has requested), +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, or +1 luck bonus on attack rolls; the others tend to be superseded by magic items.

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Originally Posted by The_Snark

I must not argue on the Internet.
Internet argument is the mind-killer.
It is the little death that brings total aggravation.
I will face my annoyance.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path.
Where the irritation has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Re: Togo's Planar Adventure set partly in Sigil (OOC)

Originally Posted by Ifni

Okay, I will note Heroics: Power Attack for Xiuhcoatl. I know Derk turned it down... are there any fighter bonus feats Simon and Rhion find particularly attractive? (or Godot or Sthrer, but I'm figuring fighter feats will be less useful for them)

Yes, I had one last good look, but Derk's input in this group is defense and I have no desire to turn into a 'dps' machine as well....I think his damage output is solid as it is. Too bad he is too stupid (Int 10) to qualify for expertise . Otherwise I did not spot any feats worth while for our main caster to lose slots over.

EDIT: Ifni, with regards to your item list, Derk expressed interest in the gloves of dex and actually has them currently incorporated in his sheet.