Why Are Black Women So Desperate for Religion?

January 31, 2013 | "LorMarie" |

I’m sure everyone has heard Michael Houston’s confession that he introduced the beloved Whitney to crack. That in and of itself is tragic. However there is a key element that makes this even more tragic. Black women are said to be the most religious group in the United States but what do we have to show for it?

God had spoken. Instantly, a sense of calm and confidence enveloped her. In times like these, when she feels anxious, afraid or unsure, Dickson relies on her faith.

So, too, do nearly nine in 10 African American women,

If you look at the condition of the black woman in America, it would appear that we do not have much to show for it. Consider Whitney’s tragic life. She was a church girl who did not fail to mention that Jesus was her Lord and Savior. I won’t argue yay or nay on that point. I will point out that she turned to drugs instead of “her Lord” and the price she paid was death. It appears that most black women are choosing a master other than the one they claim. Just look at our numbers. We lead the pack among women when it comes to obesity and poor nutritional habits, both indicators that we are not engaging in self care, etc. One would think that such a dependence on faith would produce better results than that. What is it that draws black women towards religion? Is it tradition or desperation? Many black women feel so defeated by society that we are desperate for anything that feeds us a notion of a better place. We desire a paradise instead of the hell in which we currently reside. After all, it is this hell (society) that tells black women that we are worthless and responsible for all the ills of our race. That leads me to a possible conclusion: Black women generally have a superficial attachment to religion. Could that be why it didn’t save Whitney and other black women like her?

To be honest, the term ‘Christian’ is almost like a default label so to speak. It is *almost* a given that a Black woman or man will claim their religious preference as Christian. I emphasized almost because I am well aware of those (like myself) who do not call themselves Christians. My main theory for this is possibly the fear of being ostracized by family and friends. I can speak from experience as one who had to hide their religious preference due to family. My family (sans my stepfather) believes in some form of Christianity, but I am currently bouncing between Unitarian Universalist and Agnostic. I believe ostracization plays a big role in the Black community in general and religious preference would be probably be included. The church has deep roots within the Black community. People would be unable to freely explore various religions without judgement. Once again, this is just a simple theory so whether this is true or not, I can’t say for sure.

Browncow

Your story sounds interesting. I used to go to a UU church for a little bit and I loved the community, but found the anti-God stance many congregations take to be off putting in my opinion. I generally go to UCC churches (still church shopping) though my actual beliefs are UU Christian. Keep searching and never stop learning spiritually. We should totally talk.

I wonder if it is the same in the non-black church too, being ostracized for not being a part of what they represent?

Sunshine789

My mom was raised Christian, but her pastor encouraged everyone when they turned 18 to explore all religions, and my mom converted to Islam. For many years she got the stink-eye from our extended family and was ostracized because of it. I think the fear of judgment at questioning anything the black church has to say keeps a lot of BW from questioning anything bad the church might do.

MySmile

Thank you so much for this article!!!!! I think this all the time!!! Black people in general are very religious but black women are probably the most religious. I am a Christian Agnostic. I believe in Jesus Christ but some stuff I think nobody can really know (some of the stories in the bible, etc). I mostly believe in using your free will. I don’t go to church now that I don’t live with my parents anymore..and I prefer not to be in circles where people’s life revolves around church or religion…that pushes me even further away from the black community because black people (again, I’m speaking as a whole) tend to be very preachy and outspoken with their religion…and frankly, it’s annoying to those of us who aren’t that way. I’m already an outcast in that way, so I can only imagine how a black Atheist feels (or a black person of another religion)…

I’m definitely not against people being more religious than me, but I think a lot of black people blindly follow religion based off of tradition…their grandmother, etc were strong Christians so they just went along with it (I’m saying this as someone who comes from a pretty religious family..some, including my father, are very involved or have positions in the church..my aunt is married to a preacher, one of my uncles preaches…I could go on and on…I can’t really even talk about my views with my family..not even on facebook…not trying to hear a sermon)…and Also, bw are always talking about they want a God Fearing man (.the God I know of doesn’t need to be feared..but I guess I understand what they’re getting at)…but, what about him being a good person (because a lot of men in church..especially the black church, would not make good boyfriends or husbands..going to church does not automatically give you morals) Basically, there’s a difference between having strong beliefs and using your beliefs as a crutch. Some people just do anything and think it’s okay because God will bring them through it….or continue to live a miserable existence without seeking help here on Earth… or finding more proactive ways to resolve their issues…How about taking control of your own life?

MySmile

Thank you so much for this article!!!!! I think this all the time!!! Black people in general are very religious but black women are probably the most religious. I am a Christian Agnostic. I believe in a higher power/ God and Jesus Christ but some stuff I think nobody can really know (some of the stories in the bible, etc). I mostly believe in using your free will. I don’t go to church now that I don’t live with my parents anymore..and I prefer not to be in circles where people’s life revolves around church or religion…that pushes me even further away from the black community because black people (again, I’m speaking as a whole) tend to be very preachy and outspoken with their religion…and frankly, it’s annoying to those of us who aren’t that way. I’m already an outcast in that way, so I can only imagine how a black Atheist feels (or a black person of another religion)…

I’m definitely not against people being more religious than me, but I think a lot of black people blindly follow religion based off of tradition…their grandmother, etc were strong Christians so they just went along with it (I’m saying this as someone who comes from a pretty religious family..some, including my father, are very involved or have positions in the church..my aunt is married to a preacher, one of my uncles preaches…I could go on and on…I can’t really even talk about my views with my family..not even on facebook…not trying to hear a sermon)…and Also, bw are always talking about they want a God Fearing man (.the God I know of doesn’t need to be feared..but I guess I understand what they’re getting at)…but, what about him being a good person (because a lot of men in church..especially the black church, would not make good boyfriends or husbands..going to church does not automatically give you morals) Basically, there’s a difference between having strong beliefs and using your beliefs as a crutch. Some people just do anything and think it’s okay because God will bring them through it….or continue to live a miserable existence without seeking help here on Earth… or finding more proactive ways to resolve their issues…How about taking control of your own life?

PaigeinPhilly

” Many black women feel so defeated by society that we are desperate for anything that feeds us a notion of a better place. We desire a paradise instead of the hell in which we currently reside. After all, it is this hell (society) that tells black women that we are worthless and responsible for all the ills of our race.”

Deep….you hit the proverbial nail on the head…even if some folks don’t want to admit it, its there on a subconscious level.

cocoababe

i think there is a difference between using religion to give you the strength to do XYZ and thinking religion is going to do XYZ for you. i.e. when SOME bw are pray for a husband BUT do not take do anything on their own accord to make it happen for themselves (going to a church with more male members, expanding dating pool, taking advantages of opportunities to meet more eligible men, etc).

I don’t think religion itself is to blame, but how some bw are using it limit themselves. After all there are plenty of bw Christians, many shown on this site, who are marrying men in their faith and outside their faith (Jews, Catholics, etc).

After reading more from Lisa Vasquez (BW Blow the Trumpet) about black women and “the black church”, I think we need to be more accountable for our own behavior and actions and less blaming of the black church for ALL the problems going on with bw.

What has the church done for black women? As much as black women have supported they give them nothing in return. ”Wait for a man!” or ”Let God be your man”
Why don’t other churches do that to their women? It’s sickening as hell.
I think black women should just step away from religion. Its not christianity that’s the problem, its religion.
You can still have your jesus outside of church… Or… Black women can start their own churches? That would be nice.. Id still support even if i am not a christian.

cocoababe

@heyimPearlilikefries
“As much as black women have supported they give them nothing in return.”
replace black church with black men or any other thing and you get the same story. the bulk of bw need to learn what setting boundaries are and what it means to demand reciprocity.

running away from “the black church” isn’t going to change their circumstances if they continue to let people take advantage of them.

It is sad what happened to Whitney. It’s sad she that with all of her money, and friends who loved her, they couldn’t help her. Again, the case of nothing can be done for anyone unless they themselves are ready for and get the help they need. Sometimes it is also a matter of not just curing the “problem” in front of you, (as the saying goes) but getting to the heart of what that problem is. I am a Christian, I read my bible, not everyday, but I do pray everyday. I love God, Jesus, the whole Faith of what God represents. I was brought up to believe in the higher power and have the spirituality of my beliefs. I can only speak for myself and not others, and I love the comfort that I feel and the joy I feel inside when I pray, when I talk to God. I’m not ashamed of feeling the way I do and I am not afraid to admit that I do these things.

Another person who is a lot more dedicated than I am might just say that I’m not a Christian because I”m not a faithful participant, or, I’m not “born again” (as I was not baptized again) but that will be their opinion and not one that I would ask them for because frankly, my religion is between God and me!

Personally, I think what a lot of people, women especially, are looking for is that hope, and comfort and why can’t they? If having a belief in God and having their religion is what drives them and gives them comfort, what is wrong with that? That being said, every individual needs to be proactive in their own lives and not wait for someone else to do for them. It is unfortunate that with everything, or at least, with most things, including religion, there are usually a portion that takes it to the point of crazy. You can’t do or say anything that will sway them from their belief system or process, even when they do bad things in the name of it! And I really think it is not only black women that are so desperate for religion, many other women are too. Unfortunately, some women thinks it is all that they can ever have. And there are so many men out there who uses religion to deceive!

cocoababe

@ForeverSerenity

oooh well said FS!! 🙂

Lexi88

I never believed Bobby Brown introduced Whitney to drugs, but never thought her brother would be behind it…such a shame.

I was raised in the church (pentacostal), church attendance was mandatory every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Most Sunday service last the whole day. I will speak from my own experience, and that of many I grew up with who feel the same. Parents bring their children to church hoping and praying the kid will get it on their own. While parents (usually moms) are getting their sanctification on, making sure the affairs of the church are taken care of, NO ONE is teaching the kids how to have a relationship with God. You can attend church from sun up to sunset, if you don’t your own personal relationship with God, it’s like washing your hands with clean water and drying it on the ground.

Most children who grew up in the church ride on their parents’ salvation. They are not taught how to develop a relationship with God, they’re just going through the motions, until they’re old enough to bounce. Which is why you have so many from the church acting a fool…. Salvation is personal.

Many “Christians” know little about being a Chistian. They eat up what is told to them by the almighty pastor and run with it. God forbid Pastor fails ( he is human, after all) them, they want to run and talk about how bad ALL Christians are and how they will never go back to God. I could accept that if we lived in a country where the bible wasn’t accessible to all and we all shared one brain…but that is not the case. Just like any relationship or career goal it takes work and dedication for it to grow.

I don’t follow any specific denomination, but I do believe in God and hold his laws in highest regards. No matter what sister so and so, or pastor so and so, says or does, it is my responsibility to take care of MY soul. The bible is at your disposal like any other book, do your own research, pray and stay around like minded people. When it is all said and done, good or bad, it will be between you and your God.

MySmile

@Lexi88 “Most children who grew up in the church ride on their parents’ salvation. They are not taught how to develop a relationship with God, they’re just going through the motions, until they’re old enough to bounce.”

Pretty much….I was also forced to go to church every sunday (and a lot of other days too) as a child (and even as old as 22 when I moved back in with my parents for a little while)…

What’s the point of forcing someone over the age of 18 to go to church just to go through the motions? I asked my parents that and their only answer was because you live in our house…..okay, but how is me not going to church hurting someone else? I believe in God, but I don’t feel like I have a close relationship with God..I never knew how to talk to God (besides praying…some people make it seem like God speaks to them..)..just went through the motions for years and years…and where has that gotten me? Nowhere…

Browncow

You know, we really should have an open forum for people in the religious, atheist, or agnostic closet to get this off their chest. I see some ladies here who can’t tell their story to their family for fear of ridicule or getting preached at. I don’t have that issue with my parents, but as a Unitarian Christian with Universalist beliefs, I can’t tell other family members what I think without being put down and called not a “real” Christian because of it. I know we all have our long or short stories and I’d like to read them, even if it is something I don’t agree with. I can respect your path and how you feel on it. What do you think?

@Browncow “I see some ladies here who can’t tell their story to their family for fear of ridicule or getting preached at.”

I feel like this with my family, particularly the extended family. Most don’t know I joined the Catholic Church. That I was baptized as an adult into the Catholic faith and that our children were also baptized into the faith (they really would freak over the infant baptism!). I have a lot of “pastors” in my family (though none have ever attended divinity school). My saving grace is that my husband is a cradle Catholic. And, in my family the woman typically joins her husband’s church after marriage. So, in that respect I look like the obedient wife becoming one in faith with her husband. The truth is when I met my husband, he was not a practicing Catholic. He was actually thinking about becoming a Methodist minister! But, I actually felt a calling towards the Catholic Church, which took me 7 years to act on for fear of how my family would react.

Browncow

@The Working Home Keeper See, you’re a perfect example of one who had a calling different from their family and followed it. Though you may feel like you can’t tell your family that you became Catholic and baptized and are raising your children Catholic. I’m curious of how you came to your faith on this road and how it fulfills you? Was it an experience that you had that was so profound and spiritual that it compelled you to become Catholic? Was it the beauty of the ritual? The feeling of belonging to a faith that is rich and deep in tradition? Those are the things I like to talk about. I’m happy that you’ve found your path in the Catholic church.

@Browncow Definitely the tradition of the Catholic Church drew me in! Growing up, I didn’t even know Catholics existed – just Methodists and Baptists! When I was in high school, one of my older sisters decided to join the Catholic Church. I’m not sure what prompted her conversion. But, through her I became more familiar with the Church, its teachings and practices. I even attended Mass. Praying the rosary really had a profound impact on me. Also, the Church’s teachings regarding the Eucharist. But, I feared for how my parents would react (funny – I had no concerns about their reactions to me dating white guys LOL!). They were confused by my sister’s conversion. So, I tried for many years to ignore the prompting I felt that was leading me to the Catholic faith. I attended a Methodist church with my now husband for awhile and liked it very much. Plus, at the time he was interested in becoming a Methodist minister. So, I was preparing to become a minister’s wife. But, I came to a point in my life where I couldn’t deny the call God placed on my heart. I didn’t want to meet Him one day and not have an answer as to why I ignored His voice. Saying because I thought it would make my parents mad seemed insufficient! So, I contacted a local Catholic Church and started the RCIA process. Initially, my husband was supportive but unsure of his own desire to remain Catholic. The biggest argument we’ve ever had was about whether to raise (at the time future) children as Catholics. But, with our daughter’s birth, my husband renewed his faith and agreed to have her baptized in the Church. I’m sure my MIL would have had something to say about it otherwise!

For me, being raised as a Baptist gave me the foundation of faith. But, I found the fullness of my faith in the Catholic Church.

Browncow

@The Working Home Keeper And that is beautiful. You followed your heart and the Lord’s calling you to this path. I’m happy that you and your husband are of one accord with respect to faith.

MySmile

@Browncow That’s a great idea!

Karla

@Browncow I’m a cradle Lutheran. My great-grandmother got into it because it was the only church in their Black neighborhood. My grandmother and mother continued for the same reason. At the time, in their neighborhoods, the Lutheran church was the only church that would venture into their neighborhood. When my mom and dad got married, my mom said she wasn’t going to do the Baptist thing, which is what my dad was. He, gladly, switched to Lutheran.

Once I left home to go to college, I started exploring other religions. I did my freshman year at Pacific Lutheran University and was required to take a class in World religions and I was hooked. I just had to know more. What was really great was I was traveling in my job so had an opportunity to explore the religions about which I had learned. I’ve been to Hindu and Buddhist temples, Catholic cathedrals, Jewish synagogues. My husband brought me a sort of Buddhist Bible he had found in the hotel dresser drawer in Thailand (like the Gideon’s Bibles). The hotel was thrilled he wanted to take it. When I was doing my Masters degree, I did extensive studies regarding the Muslim religion and have a beautiful leather-bound, gold-leafed Koran given to me by my instructor, which I cherish.

My mom is very religious and was resistant to my need to know. She saw all the writings and teachings I had in my library next to my Bibles and was not happy. But, after a while, she started reading the stuff I had and now has a need to know as well. She has even bought some of the books and passed them on to her pastors to get them up to speed.

I think it’s important to, at least, know about other religions and not from other people, who have a tendency to exaggerate certain things and not for good. IMO, the more understanding we have of others’ spiritual beliefs, the less fearful and more accepting we can be. Never was this made more clear to me than when 9/11 happened. I was living in a neighborhood that had a diplomatic Muslim contingent (I live in Northern Virginia, about 20 miles from DC); I had cooked meals for them during Ramadan, they had made every effort to wish me a Merry Christmas… in other words, we all got along very well. Then, outsiders started coming into the neighborhood, cornering the Muslim women with their kids and shouting epithets at them. I got into it with some idiot redneck WM who were geting really nasty with one of my Muslin neighbors. I was in uniform so he started calling into question my patriotism. We exchanged words and then my husband drove up, also in uniform. He got on his cell phone, called the police and then confronted the men. They backed off but continued to shout out racist insults. They were completely ignorant about the Muslim religion and what it had to do with the terrorists of 9/11.

I am quite happy with the way my spiritual education is going. There’s so much out there to know and to learn.

Browncow

@Karla We live in the same area, dare I say probably in the same county (Fairfax). I remember when the Mosques started putting up spiked fences to keep out the ignorant folks who may have wanted to burn the place down, harm worshipers, or at least vandalize the property. I was finishing up college at the time of 9/11 and had many Muslim friends in school. I knew that a few crazies didn’t change my view of my friends.

I’m all about knowing and getting new information about different faith traditions. I also took a World Religions class in college and a Near East Religions class. I loved it and wanted to know more too. It brought me to an Eastern religious tradition that I was a part of for over 10 years. The only problem about it was that the association didn’t really expand my mind, it contracted it. Long story. After I left, I still needed somewhere to worship since I still love God and have had some personal experiences that have pretty much sealed it for me on that argument. So after getting married and moving I went to a UU church where I was living that was so worshipful and loving. Then I moved back to the area and tried to rekindle the magic I had at the first UU church I went to, and it didn’t happen. They were too political and I was opposed to some of their politics. That and going never gave me that feeling, so I did my research and started by looking at the origins of the actual UU church and remembered in my membership classes that they were originally two different Christian denominations that merged. The rest it history from there because I love where I am in my faith now and I’m very open to learning more and I’m always reading. This is the “Cliff’s Notes” version of my story. No worries about my parents who still practice the Eastern faith I left (no, it wasn’t Buddhism), but their faith in the organization is waning and they’re seeing the light about people there too. They no longer attend temple. It’s sad.

Karla

@Browncow Politics in a church can change everything. My mom has refused to become a member of the Lutheran church she attends so she can leave without looking back when the politics start. I’ve been very blessed to attend a Lutheran church that doesn’t engage in politics, although this may change with the retirement of my pastor (whom I loved!).

Do you attend the Unitarian church on Hunter Mill Road?

Browncow

@Karla No I don’t attend a Unitarian church at all. Is that church alright as far as God is concerned? I’m in the process of church shopping. So far I’ve gone to two different UCC churches that I really like. My husband likes the second church because it’s so tiny that it’s more like a home church congregation than anything else. I know that last year the UU Christian Fellowship held their annual revival at that church. I’m actually researching whether they have a chapter or not in their church and if they do, I’ll attend a meeting to get a feel for them. I’m actually looking into starting a Unitarian Christian reading and fellowship group in the area because I know I’m not the only one out here. I’m taking it one day at a time now.

As for the politics, I just don’t like them because if you go to a more liberal religious institution it’s ASSumed that you’re also a democrat (which I am not). It becomes a bit uncomfortable for those of us who are theologically and socially liberal, but are politically conservative in other ways. I just want to be a part of a group be it home church or larger church where we can leave the politics at the door a bit and just get to the work of worship and doing service for others in our community. Is that too much to ask?

Karla

@Browncow I agree that politics should be left at the door because church is supposed to be about unfettered worship and service to the world community without restriction. And, no, it isn’t too much to ask. In fact, you shouldn’t have to ask for it if the church knows its business.

I’ve not been read in to the Unitarian church but do have a friend who just started working there and she attends the church as well. She said it’s much better than the Christian church she was going to in that they don’t judge.

CherieMaria

@Browncow I have had my faith questioned by my own parents and even told that there are not going to be any “heathens” in the house. I think there might be an issue where some black women feel like they are pressured to be religious or be in a certain religion. I am not speaking of all religious black women, I know some practice on their own free will. I do go to church at times, there is a multicultural one that I love to go but I have questioned things I did not like in most black churches and I was looked at side ways. I agree, there needs to be a space for us.

Browncow

@CherieMaria All I can give you are hugs and just know that there is a place for you in faith. Just keep digging and you’ll find what you’re looking for.

CherieMaria

@Browncow Thanks 🙂

Lexi88

@CherieMaria @Browncow

Religion is man made and extremely flawed.

Karla

I’ve never attended a “Black” church as my church so I can’t speak to why it affects so many BW the way it does. I have visited one with my GF, who was Black Baptist. Her “pastor” decided to make me his punching bag by calling me a “blasphemer” for being Lutheran and attending the “White man’s” churches. I responded that my mother was correct. The devil’s favorite place to hang out is in church, in the front pew and, in this case, the pastor himself. I told my GF she had five minutes and I went and sat in the car. It was 12 degrees that day so it was frigid in the car. My GF came out and apologized, saying she was never going back again. I’m not saying all Black churches are like this but, frankly, that was enough for me. It constantly amazes me how some people can be so righteous in their beliefs but not in their actions. They say “God is god.” or “Hallelujah!” but the minute they walk out of the church, their behavior is far from that exhibited in the church.

Church doesn’t keep people from screwing up their lives. Whitney made a choice in her life that turned out to be fatal, just like so many people before her (Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, John Bonham, Keith Moon, to name a few). It had nothing to do with the church. She was free to make that choice and it ended up killing her. Church ≠ goodness.

@Karla That pastor is a mad man! People like him spewing the holier than though reasons as to their way, is why people get religion so wrong! He should apologize to you! I applaud you for walking out! & way to go your GF! Agreed on the other points too! 🙂

Karla

@ForeverSerenity He was an idiot and, thankfully, I didn’t have to ever see Satan’s spawn again.

tracyreneejones

Religion is such bullshit……in and of itself as an answer. The implied benefit can be used to uplift and create a support system but that comes from the community of people and not ‘the Good Book’ that no one really reads or take seriously. Religion didn’t make sense to me, and I quit church when I was about 10 ish…

kia

If you don’t mind me asking. And without getting too personal. Are you an atheist? What turned you off to religion as a child?

tracyreneejones

@kia I am an atheist if left to my own devices, and without having to explain my inability to believe things I find illogical. No such thing as too personal…..what other ppl find to be so private I speak about, could care less about being judged by anyone. As a child I disliked the anxious feeling of someone policing my activities, and then for each question I had about God, I was given an answer that made no sense. My foster father refused to attend church because he wasn’t going to thank a statue of a white man for what he went to work each day to provide for. I agreed. I feel very secure as a person that goes through life without the crutch of religion causing me to not believe in myself because I believe in outside of myself. I have a high I.Q. and 2+2 didn’t = 4.
The funnier part is that my natural father is a yellow back, excuse ridden weakling of a Black man. I associate and understand his love and comfort in the Lord by example of his inefficiency as a responsible and conscious husband/parent.
He recently let me know how he felt about my religion intolerance (which I don’t shove down ppls throats, I have plenty of ‘Christian” friends), because he didn’t care for an article written to criticize Reps using religion as a political tactic during the election. His ‘saved’ wife Liked the article, in order for it to appear on his timeline. He doesn’t call nor check on me, after shedding so many grateful tears years ago, but he had time to thug for Jesus via FB. GTFOHWTB….

I was raised by a man, and he believed in hard work, responsibility and would NEVER publicly humiliate me, but behind the shield of religion, all things are permitted so my natural father feels its okay to do so. And yes, I know “Jesus”, Yahweh, Mohammad, Jehovah, Ibrahim, and any other variation of monolithic deities. I love me some Catholic churches tho……stained glass and beautiful marble.

tifa12

@tracyreneejones @kia Religion is not a crutch. I hate when people say that. Most theist are happy, functioning people. Stop pretending that their not not.

Fine your atheist. But ,PLEASE, stop pretending that makes you better than anyone. It doesn’t.

tracyreneejones

@tifa12@kia Religion IS a crutch…the broken people seek out the Lord, or am I wrong about that being the reason and premise of Jesus seeking out people to come to him to alleviate their misery and pain for whatever it is that ‘ails’ them?
“And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Mark 2:17

You can dislike people considering it a crutch, but if that is the implied intention and also the frequent use of religion/God, then I’m not sure what else needs to be said about it. It’s a crutch, broken people, people seeking salvation, people seeking a friend to get to a better place in their lives. I’m not confused regarding the purpose of religion.
But maybe many followers are…?

Lexi88

@tracyreneejones @tifa12 @kia

I may be wrong, but I always thought a crutch is something that is used to cover, support or excuse a habit or belief. The verse you provided speak of healing and restoration through Christ. We all in some form or another need healing and restoration, the kind that can not be found through monetary means or another being. That is not a crutch, that is a fact.

You’ve mentioned religion numerous time in your post, please understand, God has nothing to do with the denominations we created to confuse and seperate. If you know anything about Jesus, it is that he spoke to ALL and came for ALL. Don’t buy into the religion hype. That’s all minutia.

tracyreneejones

@Lexi88 @tifa12 @kia Definition of CRUTCH “1 a : a support typically fitting under the armpit for use by the disabled in walking or b : prop, stay.” Merriam Webster definition. I don’t know where your definition of a crutch comes from. You may be implying the derogatory sentiment when my intention was as the definition provides. My question is why can’t I have my own beliefs about religion. I’m not allowed to do anything but repeat and drone off to appease others?Anyone can be guilty of an emotional response but I swear this conversation can never be pragmatic. How does one have a conversation about individuals personal opinions of their beliefs…..? My opinion is as good as anyone else’s, I’m just not afraid to say so, no need for validation or reinforcement of my beliefs..or lack thereof. 🙂

Lexi88

@tracyreneejones @tifa12 @kia

“My question is why can’t I have my own beliefs about religion. I’m not allowed to do anything but repeat and drone off to appease others?”

I see nothing wrong with you having an opinion about religion. I have my own….. That’s the beauty of free will.
My only issue with nonbelievers, is how they put all Christians in the same category. And use religion to justify not being able to relate to us. I am a Christian because I follow Christ, and try to live as he did. Religion is not part of my Christian life.

Any Christian who disregards your beliefs or make light of your choice to be an atheist is NOT living Christ-like. Everyone is religious to a point, but few people live as Christians.

Hallyu Love

@Lexi88 @tracyreneejones @tifa12 @kia
“Everyone is religious to a point, but few people live as Christians.”

THIS!!!

tifa12

@tracyreneejones @kia I am not religious but yes you are confused, like many people in modernist society, about original intention of religion and it importance……which is the ordering of society (using ideals, fables, SYMBOLIC stories,etc) around a set a “rules” and a worldview based on the culture/spirit of a people. Contrary, to popular belief the Ancient Greeks (for example) did not actually believe in myths of their Gods. That wasn’t point, the lessons were. And they were a strong, intelligent race who were capable of building high civilization. Like most theists have and still do. Nothing “broken” and “weak” about them.

Nothing with them being “broken” ,being controlled (which is not completely negative,btw) or needing a crutch. Also, what your mentioned above only applies (in my opinion, weakly) to Christianity. Most of other religions (present and historically) have nothing to with “salvation” or “flocks of sheep”.

I have no problem with people being anti-religion or whatever, just even-handed and honest.

tracyreneejones

@Lexi88 @tifa12 @kia You are in the category of being a Christian, the levels and types and other details of what that means to you isn’t something that needs to be sorted out by non believers. Its an either or type of thing. I get the frustration but isn’t that part of free will? No one said believing what you believe or what I believe would be easy or universally acceptable. Inability to relate comes from the inability to see eye to eye, IMO, you’ve (not you but you people…..HA) have your own community to feel accepted in. Being religious is not why I may not be able to relate, and who says I don’tcan’t, but what causes a person to follow religion or believe or use religion for whatever reason may be what causes the fork in the road. There is way more going on and problematic than what one does on Sundays sometimes.

tracyreneejones

@tifa12 @kia I gave you my honest answer, understand that you don’t have to like it. Explain further my confusion, and I’ll assert my indifference to any one disagreeing or feeling the need to correct something that isn’t a part of my life.
I know what religion was created for, we are discussing those who use it to address or possibly avoid certain counter productive behaviors. We are discussing BW who identify as Christian, whatever that means these days. When a history lesson re: Christianity is presented then I’ll jump in with that point of view. I’m not ignorant, I’m just not saying anything satisfactory to your understanding of my understanding of Christianity. I can’t speak for any other non-believer person, atheism isn’t a religion, there is no doctrine.

tifa12

@tracyreneejones @kia Fine, we just have to agree to disagree.

My original point was that religion has nothing to do with happened to Whitney or those other BW. Religion, like anything else, cannot innately help anyone or hurt. You have to help yourself. Even Christians say “God help those who help themselves”

And forgive me if , I came off rude. Let me put it this way before I exit. I’m not a big fan of modern (liberal)Cultural Marxist society, if you know what I mean. So I can be wordy and get irritated.

Lexi88

@tracyreneejones @tifa12 @kia

“Being religious is not why I may not be able to relate, and who says I don’tcan’t, but what causes a person to follow religion or believe or use religion for whatever reason may be what causes the fork in the road. There is way more going on and problematic than what one does on Sundays sometimes.”

I totally agree with you. Most people found “religion” during difficult and confused times. They then develop selective amnesia, forgetting where we were, when they found said religion, and play holier-than-thou when others question their beliefs and faith. No matter your belief, it is only credible if you the believer is able to support the who, what and why.
But that is often difficult because half of the folks packing churches across the country, have never seen a concordance and only open the bible on Sunday.

Lexi88

@tracyreneejones @tifa12 @kia

“Being religious is not why I may not be able to relate, and who says I don’tcan’t, but what causes a person to follow religion or believe or use religion for whatever reason may be what causes the fork in the road. There is way more going on and problematic than what one does on Sundays sometimes.”

I totally agree with you. Most people found “religion” during difficult and confused times. They then develop selective amnesia, forgetting where they were, when they found said religion, and play holier-than-thou when others question their beliefs and faith. No matter your belief, it is only credible if you the believer is able to support the who, what and why.
But that is often difficult because half of the folks packing churches across the country, have never seen a concordance and only open the bible on Sunday.

Lexi88

@tracyreneejones @tifa12 @kia

“Being religious is not why I may not be able to relate, and who says Idon’tcan’t, but what causes a person to follow religion or believe or use religion for whatever reason may be what causes the fork in the road. There is way more going on and problematic than what one does on Sundays sometimes.”

I totally agree with you. Most people found “religion” during difficult and confused times. They then develop selective amnesia, forgetting where they were, when they found said religion, and play holier-than-thou when others question their beliefs and faith. No matter your belief, it is only credible if you the believer is able to support the who, what and why.
But that is often difficult because half of the folks packing churches across the country, have never seen a concordance and only open the bible on Sunday.

tracyreneejones

@Lexi88 @kia EXACTLY. I’m being accused of not understanding or being able to relate to Christians, no where in my responses have I said any of that. My Sunday school teacher is on my FB page, as is the ppl from my childhood, the mixed group of kids from my Roman Catholic school, the 5% nations guys from the Hood, the people who are from other countries, atheists, agnostics, and many more, I’m sure. I like people who are supportive and healthy, I don’t find those types to necessarily be part and parcel in the type of ‘holy roller’ church that many BW attend. Yes, everyone has issues but the HR churches, or church in general have their own unique bullshit, why would I want to introduce that to my life? I see no benefit, I don’t down ppl who do. I don’t see a benefit in being in an abusive relationship, others do. I don’t want to be leered at by the men in the church and hated by the woman and judged unfairly. I could care less about an opinion, as long as I earned the reputation. I promise I”ve had LESS SEX than MANY of the girls attending HR type of churches. Stealing, gossiping, lies, affairs, homosexual bashing, and closeted homosexuals living DL. Nope, I don’t have any of that in my personal life, so why would I bother in a church? I don’t feel comfortable with a person who can do and say nearly ANYTHING and only needs to ‘pray’ in order to feel they have permission to continue on with whatever destructive and dysfunctional behavior. God forgives, I observe, and I choose to separate myself from that. I love Buddhisms, Hinduism, some Christianity, I admire parts of Islam, I’ve probably spent more time studying, and discussing religion than many who claim to be super saved. Roman Catholic grammar school and Pentecostal Mom’s religion. Baptist church observation later in life, don’t go to these services because they cause me to have panic attacks. Too much going on.
I do have a pastors whose sermon I liked but for the fact that he lost credibility in my eyes, by coercing his GF into having an abortion and then proposing to his side, marrying her and then making her Mother of the church. Enough ppl know but what is done about it? Men abusing BW, exploiting, typical.
I don’t like hypocritical, and neither do my religious friends. They accept me and I accept them, no judgement from either side. WWJD? Not be so concerned with nuances, I bet. And one person cannot speak on behalf of what motivates other ppl to seek out religion. A personal relationship with God that gains the input of so many outsiders…

MySmile

@tracyreneejones ” I quit church when I was about 10 ish… ”
lol I wish I could have!!! I couldn’t stand going to church..even when I was a kid. Honestly, it was so boring and just didn’t make much sense to me why people were passed out on the floor crying and speaking in tongues and such…sitting there for 3 hours listening to people scream and holler…ugh….all the dysfunction, hypocritical dbrs, and gossipy people….It only got worse as I was a teenager… Nobody should be surprised that I stopped attending church…

tracyreneejones

@MySmile I didn’t attend those churches and I can imagine how traumatizing that must be for a child. I did attend as an adult and its disturbing and fake as Hell, IMO. Judging by the way the people ‘compete’ in save-ness, gossip and talk about each other’s ‘shouting’ its not a subconscious thing. Their putting on a performance, its ridiculous. I can imitate ‘saved speak’ and shout and to the two step and all of that. I do it in response to religiousnessness when I’m expected to join in, not a question about my beliefs, but just shout and repeat certain phrases. That was the first BIG stance I took against my mother, such a waste of time to me, though I did like the ppl there. They’re a part of my childhood and I recall much love.

MySmile

Some people say they don’t understand why black people are the most “religious” and majority Christian because blacks were not Christians until slavery (it was forced upon them by their masters). Africans had their own tribal religions before that. I don’t know enough about the subject to draw a conclusion..guess I’d have to read up on it…Now I’m not saying that Christianity is automatically “the evil white man’s religion”.lol (I am on Beyond Black and White for a reason…not Black Nationalists.com :-P)…..but the subject does spark my interest and may have some truth to it. I know the Native Americans were forced to assimilate…and if this is true it’s ironic that white people seem to be the least religious in general…What do you all think?

jakethewrestler

@MySmile Id be wary of anyone who had an explanation. Im glad you name is Smile

Sunshine789

@MySmile That history is completely true. It is actually a little scary to me that BW have such faith in Christianity but do not know the history. It was indeed used as a tool to brainwash and control slaves. As a matter of fact, that knowledge is what sparked Malcom X and the Nation of Islam, because they saw how religion was being used to manipulate the masses. Now of course, you may know that the Nation went on to have it’s own problems with manipulation….but that is another story for another day!

The truth is, is that many Christians today still go and do the same thing to poor people around the globe. They call it “mission year”. Young, bright-eyed Christians will go to poor parts of various countries in Africa, India, etc… and tell the locals that the reasons they are starving and sick is because they are heathens. Then, they will give them food and force them to accept Christ as exchange for food and medicine. It is appalling.

I actually think this is still going on in America’s black communities. People are so wrapped up in religion that they can’t think critically.They are too caught up in the “belief olympics” of “who loves God more”, that they can’t stop talking about God long enough to work on solving the social problems of our time. When are we going to realize that God is not the path to the solution to concrete problems? Sure, your faith may inform you, but the cure to AIDS is not to be found in the bible. It is going to be found in a lab. I wish more Christians would allow their faith to direct them to science and critical thinking! One does not negate the other!

MySmile

@Sunshine789

Yes, I may date white men but I have no problem calling out historical bs!!! I sort of made a disclaimer earlier because some people act like if you date interracially you don’t have the right to talk about this stuff…I’m talking about white people in the PAST…We all know there was at least some brainwashing that went down back then…

“Young, bright-eyed Christians will go to poor parts of various countries in Africa, India, etc… and tell the locals that the reasons they are starving and sick is because they are heathens. Then, they will give them food and force them to accept Christ as exchange for food and medicine. It is appalling”

I’ve thought this before too!! This is a good point!!. There are so many other reasons why people are starving…..There is no problem with telling people about your faith but you should never make someone feel obligated or pressured…or like the reason their life is miserable is because they haven’t accepted Jesus Christ..because there are plenty of people who have and their lives are still miserable…. I know there are some Christian Organizations that just feed people and leave it at that, though (maybe say a prayer for them or something)..but I think it’s best if you leave it up to people to make their own decisions…I have no problems with handing out a pamphlet or something..but let people decide on their own…

” I wish more Christians would allow their faith to direct them to science and critical thinking! One does not negate the other!”

Exactly! You can have both! Not sure why people don’t understand that…

MySmile

@Sunshine789
Yes, I may date white men but I have no problem calling out historical bs!!! I sort of made a disclaimer earlier because some people act like if you date interracially you don’t have the right to talk about this stuff…Plus, in this case, I’m talking about white people in the past…We all know there was some brainwashing that went down back then…

“Young, bright-eyed Christians will go to poor parts of various countries in Africa, India, etc… and tell the locals that the reasons they are starving and sick is because they are heathens. Then, they will give them food and force them to accept Christ as exchange for food and medicine. It is appalling”

I’ve thought this before too!! This is a good point!!. There are so many other reasons why people are starving…..There is no problem with telling people about your faith but you should never make someone feel obligated or pressured…or like the reason their life is miserable is because they haven’t accepted Jesus Christ..because there are plenty of people who have and their lives are still miserable…. I know there are some Christian Organizations that just feed people and leave it at that, though (maybe say a prayer for them or something)..but I think it’s best if you leave it up to people to make their own decisions…I have no problems with handing out a pamphlet or something..but let people decide on their own…

” I wish more Christians would allow their faith to direct them to science and critical thinking! One does not negate the other!”

Exactly! You can have both! Not sure why people don’t understand that…

wanderingdreamer

@MySmile @Sunshine789 Christianity is not native to Europe either. Europe had it’s own religions before Christianity. (Same with Islam)

Sunshine789

@wanderingdreamer @MySmile The need to agressively convert others is one of the biggest problems I have with religion. Just live and let live, please!

MySmile

@wanderingdreamer @Sunshine789 Yeah, that’s why I was saying I’d need to read up some more history before I came to a conclusion…I was pretty sure it didn’t, but I was pretty sure the Europeans were Christians before the Africans… Feel free to school me! I’m always up for learning. When you go back that far in history, things can get confusing….

deleted_10684191_Jus Sayin

First I just have to say…I get the question, sort of, but…the question stereotypes an entire group. Some women are drawn to church (not religion or relationship with GOD) out of social needs, others just do it, because it’s what they’ve done, and then there are those of us who actually believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ…and that my friend is not religion. It’s funny that most people don’t really know that…Christ contended most with the religious sect during his life.

In addition, because people don’t understand the difference, sometimes people try to put down or discriminate against the followers of Christ and I don’t mean some hijacked American myth perpetuated by (a few) members of the Republican political party. My beliefs are what I live and meditate on…they are life affirming and life-giving…and if they make me less attractive to some, I’m ok with that, I’d rather have peace and integrity.

The answer to this and any question about what people do, is and will always be based on the need of the individual.

Have a faboo day!

I’m Jus’ Sayin’

KingsDaughter

@Jus Sayin
“… the question stereotypes an entire group”

EXACTLY.

kia

I believe that many black women have blind faith with the black church. And as adults there are some black women that have turned away from religion or explored other religions. Which is a good thing. Because the black church has done nothing for black people. Especially black women with all the problems in the black community. I don’t think they’ve done anything for black people since slavery. I think most black churches are a scam because they never address real problems in the black community – Education. Crime. Teen pregnancy. Hip hop culture. Family unity. Building wealth. Relationships. Sell out black politicians/activists. Sell out black celebs who do nothing for the black community. etc. Everywhere you look. You see many black women stressed out. Broke or poor. Mad at the world. Single Mothers. Supporting lazy physically abled bodied people. Denigrated by other blacks of how undesirable or unwanted they are. Its refreshing to come here and to other blogs and see black women living happy living lives. Or on their way to being happy who have not been brainwashed by the black community or the black church mindset. If more black women don’t break away from the black church. They will continue to be lonely, stressed out, miserable, angry. Because the black church is brainwashing them and using them to support the entire black community.

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@kia I agree. Black women are the mothers, nurses, cleaners, committee leaders, key-holders, Sunday school teachers, secretaries, pastor’s cooks…you name it. The black church would not survive without them. Yet as you wrote the church doesn’t prioritize bettering these lives of black women at all. No reciprocity.

Lexi88

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics @kia

But whose fault is that…not the church, God or pastor, but the woman giving her all (like she probably does in every aspect of her life…no boundaries) time and energy, when that is not how it is written to be.
The bible clearly states, just like each part of our body has different functions, so does each member of the body of the church. If you choose to play Ms. I can do it all…. That’s going against scripture and YOUR fault. The Bible is pretty accurate and to the point…. We hear and see what we want to support our lack.

Again, free will!

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@Lexi88 @kia Absolutely it is her fault. Not blaming God here.

KingsDaughter

@Lexi88 @SparklyAquaMetaphysics @kia Agreed. I love serving but I always remember that God sees our hearts. What I do must never become a mechanical thing… a chore that one does because you believe it’s expected of you. That eventually cultivates resentment for the very thing you’re supposed to love. Besides we’re supposed to worship God in all that we do, not only through activities at church. Whether at our jobs, how we live with our families etc.

Sunshine789

@Lexi88 @SparklyAquaMetaphysics @kia “But whose fault is that…not the church, God or pastor, but the woman giving her all (like she probably does in every aspect of her life…no boundaries) time and energy, when that is not how it is written to be.”

I am not disagreeing with you, but sometimes I wonder if the taboo against criticizing the Church or the Bible is part of the problem… I worry that it forbids people to examine their faith more closely.

mzsunshine

It’s sad to hear all these stories people are sharing about bad experience they’ve had with religion in general and the church specifically. I too, have had my share of bad experience with the church. That being said, it is not the same as being a follower of Christ and having an intimate relationship with him.

Religion is man’s misinterpretation of God’s will for our lives. Most of the time it is self- serving for the church and those who run it.

However, one of the most beautiful things about being made in HIS image is that HE gives us a choice. It’s called a free will. And we can use it to serve him or not. I use my mine to serve Him.

I would encourage you to read the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. Read and research as you would any book but in it’s original text. Research the history and the culture in which it was written.

Too bad, religion and the church has given Christinaity a black eye.

Browncow

@mzsunshine I’m agreement with this.

Lexi88

@mzsunshine
“Too bad, religion and the church has given Christianity a black eye.”

Exactly! Christianity is not the problem, religion is.
We don’t give up on love after a bad break-up…why would you allow another human being to dictate your relationship with God?!

Hallyu Love

@mzsunshine
Amen! Couldn’t have said this better.

Hallyu Love

What is supposed to be desperate about being religious? Using God as a a scapegoat for your less than stellar life is not the solution. Whitney Houston unfortunately made poor decisions in her life which resulted in her untimely death. She chose those drugs and no one forced her to take them. God gives us free will and she exercised her free will unfortunately to become a drug addict. Faith in God is not contingent on all things going right for you especially if you’re not willing to lift a finger to help yourself. Whitney made her bed and had to lie in it. I don’t think Black women should abandon their beliefs and become religious cynics like so many others. Much of the source of many Black women’s problems outside of classism, racism and overall discrimination largely have to do with making poor decisions like eating a Big Mac over a salad or worse choosing to deal with a man who has absolutely NOTHING going for him simply to say that “I gotta man ” which quite frankly is nothing to brag about unless he’s a man of quality. I will keep the faith in God that I currently have and hope to grow further in it. (BTW I am a Black woman speaking from my own experiences and from my observations of others not trying to bash here.)

cocoababe

@Hallyu Love
” I don’t think Black women should abandon their beliefs and become religious cynics like so many others. Much of the source of many Black women’s problems outside of classism, racism and overall discrimination largely have to do with making poor decisions…”

Hi Everyone,
I’m new at posting, but I’ve been enjoying this blog for a few months. I couldn’t be more thrilled to discover this and other websites encouraging bws to open their minds to other options.
I thought I would add my two cents to this particula topic. I am not very religious and have not gone to church in years. But I will tell you the last church I enjoyed attending was Unitarian Universalist. I loved the diversity of faiths. You can be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or an atheist, and every one got equal treatment and respect. The congregation ws mostly white upper-middle class. It was not only a spiritual atmosphere, but an intellectual one as well. I learned about what others believe about God and humanity. I just wish more people of color would explore this option and see if it fits them.

@ShyVi Hi ShyVi, I have actually been planning to attend Unitarian Universalist. In my research I also came across Unity and I’m learning the differences between the two. I grew up in the Episcopal church, then my family ventured into a few others, until I quit going in high school. I’ve never enjoyed being preached at/to, or being amongst any group which believed or taught that it was the best or only way. To me spirituality is very personal, but I do sometimes feel a need to join up with others who are more open and who see the importance of intellectualism in service. And being a traveler and very respectful of world cultures, I’m attracted to the inclusion that is the foundation of U.U. Thanks for sharing your experience. Will you attend again?

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics Hi Sparkly. I don’t know. I have thought about returning. Everyone I met there was gracious and welcoming, and the energy there was positive. Any hesitation I have about returning is a personal issue I am still trying to work out. Thank you for asking.

Sunshine789

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics @ShyVi I had some friends who were Unitarian growing up and they always seemed very well-balanced.

MySmile

@ShyVi “the last church I enjoyed attending was Unitarian Universalist. I loved the diversity of faiths. You can be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or an atheist, and every one got equal treatment and respect.. It was not only a spiritual atmosphere, but an intellectual one as well. I learned about what others believe about God and humanity. I just wish more people of color would explore this option and see if it fits them.”

That actually sounds pretty cool and like it’s worth a try to go and see if I like it… I will have to look it up..

SheThrives11

@ShyVi I’m currently attending a UU Church now and have been doing so for the last 3 years. It’s the only church I know that celebrates Dawin’s contributions to science in the morning service, then hosts a gospel choir concert later that night with bible readings (as what happened this past Sunday).

tifa12

I’m not religious but ,I’m sorry, but I disagree with entire premise of this article. Religion is a personal spiritual choice. Not a mental illness or indication of personal problems,etc.

Whitney’s problems are HER own and caused completely by HER. Her religion has nothing to do with it.

LorMarie

@tifa12
Based on your comment, you are actually agreeing with the entire premise of the article. The premise is summed up here:

That leads me to a possible conclusion. Black women generally have a superficial attachment to religion. Could that be why it didn’t save Whitney and other black women like her?

I can respect that you disagree with my point which is actually casting doubt on whether or not most black women are “true believers.”

I agree to that. I find that many bw get the lingo and accoutrements of religion, passed down and they swallow it, or they pick it up suddenly in times of great need, and it becomes this thing they wear on their sleeves. But often there is no real understanding, depth, or self-discovery as part of it. Nothing burns me up like the church on Sunday types who’s lives are full of hypocrisy and such, but they know God because they sprinkle every conversation with the language of religion, and “stay prayed up” and such.

LorMarie

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics @tifa12
I would love to see a study of the types of churches bw are attracted to. I suspect it’s the prosperity ministries. That would say a lot.

DarlingNikki69

My biggest gripe with religion…is the one size fits all-ness. No two Christians will necessarily believe the sameway. That goes for all other religions, etc. I see folks more interested in telling other folks that they are not Christian, and do not know the word of God. Then spend their time trying to ‘educate’ or ‘spiritually force feed’ their views on the person. I’ve had it done to me time and again. Let me feed my soul, and seek out answers….you worry about you and yours.
Whatever your beliefs are, they should never absolve you of personal responsibility.

Karla

@DarlingNikki69 “No two Christians will necessarily believe the same way.”
This is so true, even within one religion.

jakethewrestler

God gave BW the most riches in terms of talent and beauty and strenght and realness. What missing is the proudness. Dont settle and if your sad smile at the angel in the mirror.

Brenda55

@jakethewrestler Awwwwwww. You post some of the sweetest things.

cocoababe

its interesting how many resort to blaming Christianity for bw’s problems when most if not all the IR couples I follow on YT are super religious. Doesn’t look like their “dependency” on their faith stopped them a happy life:

sorry, but I think the religion excuse is a cop out for people not taking responsibility for their own lives.

Lexi88

@cocoababe
Big fan of all the ones you mention! 🙂

cocoababe

@Lexi88
“Many “Christians” know little about being a Christian. They eat up what is told to them by the almighty pastor and run with it.”

I like what you said here. I was def guilty of this. Not all pastors know what the hell they are talking about. It is up to me to do my research and study the bible and not depend a minister and congregation I haven’t thoroughly vetted.

Lexi88

@cocoababe

Religion is a very lucrative business. Many pastors who claim to be “called” to the pulpit by God, are called by the old mighty dollar. No where in the Bible did God or Christ preach religion.

I find in funny that we will spend hours researching and spend great sums of money to learn about “stuff”, but rely on the supposed research and education of another to decide one’s faith.

cocoababe

its interesting how many resort to blaming Christianity for bw’s problems when most if not all the IR couples I follow on YT are super religious. Doesn’t look like their “dependency” on their faith stopped them a happy life:

sorry, but I think the religion excuse is a cop out for people not taking responsibility for their own lives.

Hallyu Love

@cocoababe
“sorry, but I think the religion excuse is a cop out for people not taking responsibility for their own lives.”

I couldn’t agree more.

Hallyu Love

@cocoababe
I love thenivenulls so adorkable and Audriauna is cuteness overload. I also love edhill1988; I’ve been following Emerald and John for quite some time although I haven’t been watching much lately. “Kainey Bear” and Karson are so freakin cute!

KingsDaughter

@cocoababe x2

KingsDaughter

@cocoababe The IR couples I know in real life are actually very serious about their faith. Both BW/WM and BM/WM.

Lady A

@cocoababe

Not only is it a cop out because it exposes many contradictions and how human beings rarely practice what they preach against. Seem like some people want to have a “PERFECT MY WAY” universe” but if that was the case then humanity and planet Earth would close to perfect by now as we’re trying to promote a ore secular nation. Still plenty of judging, bashing, and idiotic behavior from human beings.

I’m only defending the religious because as time progressed and I see people complain about it, I can go under YouTube videos and blogs and see people still behave like uncivilized and narrow minded people who argue and still ridiculous nonsense. Throwing religion away is not going to change humanity AS RELIGION WAS NEVER THE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH. It’s been the numero uno go to scapegoat.

Like blaming HIV/AIDS on gays, crime on African Americans and minorities, and the inability of men to control themselves on what a woman has on or is doing so she deserved whatever happened to her, same thing with the “RELIGION DID IT” NONSENSE.

This is suppose to be a more secular nation than it’s ever been in the past and yet we still have articles coming out about discrimination and other races seeing black women through stereotypical glasses.

That’s why I kind of have a resentment towards human beings, how hard is it to “COEXIST” without the mine is better than yours approach to everything? Obviously too hard for humans, which is why I can’t tolerate human beings. Maybe that’s why some people turn to God or a belief in God because look how man behaves, can you blame them?

LorMarie

Hi all, thanks for your thought provoking comments. Yes, I do wish that there was a forum for peole to safely vent about religion. I’m actually coming to terms with and trying to find healing wrt my own history as a self-declared born again Christian. And boy do I have a history with the church, LOLOL. And yes I planning a book.

tracyreneejones

@LorMarie There are places where ppl can criticize and debate religion, they’re not as publicized or widely accept but they exist. I could actual give a dam who does what, I only ask that the person have their own thought out reason for believing what they believe. But in all honesty, I’ve NEVER ‘gotten’ it, I observe, and listen and read and study…but I can’t relate to any of it beyond having a respect for history, artwork and other aesthetic contributions. I wish I could join in and do what others do and believe the things that others believe, but I never have. I feel left out the joke, and surly it would be easier to just agree to get along or truly have some relationship with what I consider stories about a nice dude named Jesus. I can’t fake the funk, others do, and admit it to me all the time that they don’t ‘really’ believe in ‘all that but’…..its the thing to do and the winning team, right?

LorMarie

@tracyreneejones
I think that’s the delimma especially for black women and men. It seems especially risky for us to admit that we have questions, doubts, or unbelief…after all, the civil rights movement started in the church and how can blacks dare go against that? I’m meeting more and more black atheists these days.

tracyreneejones

@LorMarie I stay getting cursed out for not being religious, as if its not by free will, and free will is part of following religion. Shit makes no sense!! The people if not the verses. I’m not giving away my power, power in self, and I feel like that is what is required and implied. I believe in people, life and love. Not Karma, not God, not good luck…not any of that kiss it to the sky stuff. I have no desire or need to follow religion, but I don’t interfere with others choice to be religious. I have always had questions about everything unlike questions that other people voice or notice. It’s not my fault, its how my mind works, people run out of answers and then they get angry at me. Teachers, pastors, supervisors, my parents. I see things, and inconsistency bugs me clean the fuck out, and I ask questions. I get emotionally upset if things don’t meld right in my brain and watching ppl fake religion really made me trip until I realized that MANY people fake and go thru the motions of their lives. I want things to be real and if not then its not for me…… (I was gonna be a nun in 6th grade until I realized that believing was part of that and I didn’t. Wouldn’t. Couldn’t be phony..pls don’t tell)But if I say its the way I comprehend information, I’ll be chastised for having the audacity to imply that my disbelief makes me intelligent and being religious makes other un-intelligent. But that’s not what I said. It never made sense because it is illogical to me. Plain and simple.

Infinity88

@tracyreneejones lmao “I can’t fake the funk” either.

I totally understand. I’m fortunate, people never tried to push religion on me. I can appreciate the history and the artwork, but I can’t join the masses.

tracyreneejones

@Infinity88 Funk should be natural…..never fake!

Sunshine789

@Infinity88 @tracyreneejones Agreed. I never believed in any of that from day one. I like the stories and it’s influence on literature and art, but I just can’t fake it to keep momma happy!

Sunshine789

@LorMarie Back in the day, I used to visit a site called Beliefnet that was a great place to discuss any religion or lack therof. I haven’t been there in years, but I remember they always had a great, respectful tone and got into some really deep conversations.

LorMarie

@Sunshine789
I used to go to ExChristian.net…they are tough. ExChristians usually are. Look up a man named Dan Barker when you get a chance.

kia

I have also noticed that some people turn away from religion, because as a child they had questions about God that were ignored by the adults. Or were physically abused by people claiming to be christians. Besides the black church doing nothing for black people or the black community. To ‘Black Christians’ your not supposed to have questions about God. Or say bad things about other christians. Even if they’re using their position of authority to abuse or brainwash other people. Your supposed to just blindly follow the bible without question. And as adults some people found happiness with other religions or not practicing religion at all. And when the so called ‘Christians’ find out about people switching their religious beliefs as adults, or not practicing at all they get mad. I’m thinking these people had questions about God as kids or were abused by other ‘Chrisitians’ with no one doing anything. Now as adults when they turn away from them, they want to get mad. Not saying this is true for everyone. Just some people.

Sunshine789

@kia When I was a child I sat down and read religious books, and saw no difference between them and a science-fiction or fantasy book. I decided then that I didn’t believe. I was a pretty smart kid, so it wasn’t that I had any questions that needed to be answered, it seemed very straight-forward. Some people believed, but I didn’t. The problem came as I figured out that I was NOT allowed to think that way, or express my opinion. So for many years, I just lied and pretended, until I was a teenager and then started rebelling and refusing to go to services. I agree with you that the expectation of “blindly following” religion stops a lot of conversations in their tracks. I wish that many religious people could be more open to expressing contrary opinions. Not because I think that everyone needs to be an Atheist like me, but because I think that having more in-depth conversations force people to think about complex issues more thoroughly. There shouldn’t be anger expressed when someone has doubts about religion. Otherwise it seems like it is very fragile.

MySmile

@Sunshine789 @kia “I wish that many religious people could be more open to expressing contrary opinions. Not because I think that everyone needs to be an Atheist like me, but because I think that having more in-depth conversations force people to think about complex issues more thoroughly. There shouldn’t be anger expressed when someone has doubts about religion.”

Pretty much!! As long as people are so defensive about religion, it will always be hard to have conversations…and I’m not just talking about people here, but people we know, like some of our families, etc…as soon as we start questioning anything, all hell breaks loose.

Plus, a higher power didn’t write the bible or any other religious texts, people did…..

Sunshine789

@MySmile @kia “Pretty much!! As long as people are so defensive about religion, it will always be hard to have conversations…and I’m not just talking about people here, but people we know, like some of our families, etc…as soon as we start questioning anything, all hell breaks loose.”

It is so true! I was having a conversation with my sister a few months ago about something completely benign, (she started talking about using astrology to find a man, and I told her it was b.s. – not in those exact words:) and before I knew it, she was yelling and screaming about hellfire! I have no idea to this day how we got to that place so quickly! I almost never discuss religion with people anymore for this exact reason. People are WAY too sensitive about it.

I feel like it is mostly because they haven’t examined their own religion deeply yet, so they sure as heck don’t want to do it in front of an Atheist, who they suspect want to “convert” them away from their faith. Of course, this is funny, because I have never thought to go around “converting” people to Atheism, but “converting” people is pretty much mandated by most major religions (except Judaism). But the non-funny part is that because everyone is so sensitive, a lot of VERY important problems in the black community get overlooked because people feel like their faith is being attacked. With all of our young men getting shot and girls getting pregnant, we cannot afford to shut these conversations down when religion is brought under the microscope. A criticism does not mean religion is being attacked! I always try to be measured with the way I present my opinions, but I think some people are going to be offended no matter what you say.

As an Atheist, I personally avoid other Atheists who are too militant about their beliefs as well as oversensitive religious folk. I agreed with a lot of what Christopher Hitchens wrote (Dog rest his soul) but I always thought he was kind of an ass about it, which didn’t help the general perception of Atheists in the world. Having religion, nor a lack of it, can save you from being a jackass…lol!

MySmile

@Sunshine789 @kia Yep! We are all sensitive about some things (I know I’m sensitive about a lot), so I try to understand…but we should be able to have a dialogue about it without being at each other’s throats…

And YES, there are Jackasses of all types!!

Sunshine789

@MySmile @kia “And YES, there are Jackasses of all types!!”
Amen to that! Back when I was dating, I had “Atheist” listed as religion on my profile. So this other Atheist dude writes me a message, and it is 90% complaining about religion and how horrible it is! Now, I agreed with some of his criticisms, generally speaking, but it came from such a place of anger that it really turned me off. Some of my best friends are religious, so I generally don’t get on my soapbox like that – unless I have had a few drinks – lol! Just kidding. But seriously, just because someone calls themselves an Atheist doesn’t mean I am going to give them a special pass!

MySmile

@Sunshine789 @kia “this other Atheist dude writes me a message, and it is 90% complaining about religion and how horrible it is! Now, I agreed with some of his criticisms, generally speaking, but it came from such a place of anger that it really turned me off”

Grrrrr I’ve talked about this with people before and how much I dislike that! Some Atheists are just angry as hell (could this be considered a pun?). Some are being just as intolerant as the religious people they claim to hate.. I understand some anger or resentment towards people who are part of the problem (or those annoying people who want to be facebook preachers!!), but not with the religion in general.. there is a difference between criticizing parts of religion, not understanding/ agreeing with it, or having a problem with the way people use it….and bashing religion in general..or thinking everyone who is involved in church is an evil hypocrite….everyone is an individual….That’s why I’ve taken the time out to say I don’t have hate for organized religion and all people who attend church…just don’t:

a) Try to force your views on me…or ostracize me if I don’t agree
b) Think being more religious or going to church means you automatically have more morals than I do
c) probably a few other things that I can’t think of right now lol

Sunshine789

@MySmile @kia OMG, I thought I was the only one! I have to walk away from other Atheists when they get on that mean streak! It makes the rest of us look bad! I think they get so angry sometimes because they were mistreated by religious folk, but they need to take advice from the religious playbook and follow the Golden Rule.

I don’t believe that all religious people are bad, nor do I think that all Atheists are perfect.

”
a) Try to force your views on me…or ostracize me if I don’t agree
b) Think being more religious or going to church means you automatically have more morals than I do
c) probably a few other things that I can’t think of right now lol”

YES!!! One of my first friends in college tried to quietly “convert” me when he found out I liked to talk about religion. As soon as he discovered that I was NEVER going to be religious, he dropped me like a hot potato. Some friend!!!

“or those annoying people who want to be facebook preachers!!”

Ha ha!!! I have like 12 friends who all of a sudden became “preachers” on facebook in the last year! There aren’t enough congregations to go around for everyone! Someone is going to have to give up their calling to the Lord and become a Graphic Designer or something because this is getting ridiculous….

MySmile

@Sunshine789

You are right, most atheists (and any people who are open minded about religion) were mistreated by religious people but no need to hate the religion itself…or ALL of its followers….Since I’m not an Atheist, if I take issue with the behaviors of some Atheists…they’ll just think I’m a hater..even though I’m not exactly “religious”…

“There aren’t enough congregations to go around for everyone! Someone is going to have to give up their calling to the Lord and become a Graphic Designer or something because this is getting ridiculous”

LMAO!!!! Exactly!!

MySmile

@Sunshine789

You are right. Many atheists (and people who are open minded about religion) were mistreated by religious people but no need to hate the religion itself…or ALL of its followers….Since I’m not an Atheist, if I take issue with the behaviors of some Atheists…they’ll probably just think I’m a hater..even though I’m not exactly “religious”…

“There aren’t enough congregations to go around for everyone! Someone is going to have to give up their calling to the Lord and become a Graphic Designer or something because this is getting ridiculous”

LMAO!!!! Exactly!!

Butterfly1

What is it that draws black women towards religion? Is it tradition or desperation?

I took some time to read a lot of the comments on this post and all I can think is “wait, so I’m not the only one who questions the ins and outs of religion and what it truly means?”. From time to time I find myself struggling with the idea of what is “christian enough”. I grew up going to church but I don’t feel like I think about Christianity like many Black people around me. So if I don’t quote scriptures on Facebook and twitter and attend church every Sunday, does that make me a bad Christian? My main issue with the black church is that often I feel that the issues that affect the black community are rarely addressed. I would never talk to my parents or family about my religion issues because I already know how they would react, although I have mentioned many times that the church needs to address the issues black people face. For now, I am just trying to figure my own beliefs out without a bunch of opinions.

MySmile

@starzzzy “For now, I am just trying to figure my own beliefs out without a bunch of opinions.”

Same here! Your beliefs are your own and nobody else’s. I’m kind of in that transitional period where I’m figuring out what I believe and what I don’t believe…so things could always change. I know part of the reason I even still call myself a Christian at all may be due to how I was brought up and what I was used to (and I’m not even a blind follower but everyone is somewhat influenced by their upbringing). I’m just starting to break away and become my own person with my own beliefs…

I often question myself, why I believe what I believe, and if I should completely disassociate myself from Christianity or religion…..sometimes I think I can call myself a Christian Agnostic, sometimes leaning towards Agnostic, and other times I just know I believe in God/ a higher power and that’s about it (that’s is the constant thing in my life).

Don’t let anyone persuade you to believe something that you truly don’t believe. Find out what feels real to you.

@MySmile @starzzzy That’s how I am. There has got to be a higher power. But I am a bit sciency. I love biology and anthropology. But how everything is interconnected it’s just amazing. Everything natural on this Earth is here for a reason it’s very little things that are not needed. We eat food that comes out the ground… someone is out here doing this ish!! I just don’t think this higher power has a list of ‘do’s and don’t do’s’ for you to follow. And this higher power won’t boil you to bits in eternal hellfire. lol

MySmile

@heyimPearlilikefries @starzzzy

I have a solid belief that there is something/ someone out there who is bigger than ourselves..These are my personal beliefs, but we can’t even cure cancer or AIDS, so how would a man create the earth and all the wonders of the world? Just doesn’t make sense to me… Sure, science has helped us progress, but it had to start somehow…and I’m saying this as someone who is not very interested in natural or physical sciences (I love social sciences) but I see the part that science has played on this Earth… I believe in a combination of creationism and evolution…I don’t feel that you could have one without the other.

You also bring up a good point about hell..I always wonder if that’s just something people have used to scare others into following Christianity…it does sound a bit far fetched!! Definitely sounds scary though….however real or fictitious it may be…

I don’t know if a higher power necessarily has a list of dos and donts either, but regardless I try to have basic morals, be kind to most people, don’t steal ,don’t kill, etc….so whether or not you’re a believer, the bible (and other religious texts) does have some good guidelines that help you lead a satisfying life (and keep you out of jail! Lol)

Some of the more specific “sins” or “dos and donts” are up for debate though..

Sunshine789

@MySmile @heyimPearlilikefries @starzzzy “You also bring up a good point about hell..I always wonder if that’s just something people have used to scare others into following Christianity…it does sound a bit far fetched!! Definitely sounds scary though….however real or fictitious it may be…”

Real or ficticious, I wish people would spend less time worrying about the hell to come, and more time trying to clean up some of the pockets of “hell” here on Earth before they “pass on”!

@MySmile @starzzzy I’m into.. all kinds of sciences really. And you have a point about creationism, but I do wonder if they ‘big-bang’ real. I like science because it seeks to answer those questions about the world and how it got here. Science is always changing, it grow and it changes. They get better understanding of things as they research. That’s what I’m into anyway. AIDS and cancer is a shame, but I have seen several natural ways to ‘cure’ not cure but make you better.. you will always have cancer.. but it’s less damaging than chemotherapy they say. Watched a couple of documentaries about it. The Gerson’s Therapy.. pretty cool, but a lot of work and money. You have to eat very high amounts of organic healthy food, no meat or dairy..

Anyway. I think people are born with morals. As in morals I mean.. not killing, murder, and rape. Society teaches you that in my opinion. Most people are gentle. Sweet babies just don’t up and kill when they grow up. Something has got to happen. No matter if they learned it in a hunter gatherer society or modern day society they were taught or influenced.. most have mental illnesses I think…. or just vengeful.

I’ve read the Bible and there are a lot of good tips in there, especially in Psalms. I haven’t tossed my Bibles out, don’t think I should.

Sunshine789

@heyimPearlilikefries @MySmile @starzzzy “I’ve read the Bible and there are a lot of good tips in there, especially in Psalms. I haven’t tossed my Bibles out, don’t think I should.”

I don’t think you should throw out your Bible. I am an atheist, and I like religious literature – I just read it like a fable, rather than fact.

@MySmile @starzzzyI just read your response and I to say that only three days ago I was reading about Christian agnostics and it sounds a lot like me. Most people however cannot understand how you can be both.

MySmile

@starzzzy Nice to meet you! Most people do not understand the Christian Agnostic thing at all..they want to put you into a box…Just because you believe some things, doesn’t mean you have to believe EVERYTHING…some things I’m just not sure of…

jakethewrestler

Whitney is a gift and I hear God in her voice and see him in her smile. She had nothing left to give artistically. But a legend like her should already have been inducted in the Kennedy Center to let her know how much she is appreciated. They just inducted a third rate talk show host (DL). smh RIP Whitney. No other women death brought so many tears worldwide in a long -long time.

jakethewrestler

Whitney is a gift and I saw God in her voice and in her smile and the tears that were shed wordwide. She should have been inducted in the Kennedy Center to let her know how much she is appreciated. They just inducted a third rate talk show host (DL). smh RIP Whitney.

@jakethewrestler I agree. Whitney was beautiful and very blessed. God did as much as he could to continue to bless her with her gift and talents. But at some point, she chose another savior (drugs) when times got rough for her. And she lost that special gift as a result (her voice) and her looks.

Instead of leaning on that faith/religious foundation she had as a young girl up to adulthood, she squandered it with bad choices and temptations she could no longer overcome wth faith alone.

she fought GOD and chose another route for herself. It happens and we see the end result when a person loses that faith battle and chooses other things over thier spirituality.

I have been there with things, but I always come back to my faith and never want to succumb to another entity or thing that is going to take away my gifts and talents.

It was TRAGIC to see what happened to WHiteny. And alot of WHitneys issues stemmed from tryign to please others (mainly ignorant assed Blacks and the BC) than herself.

Not tryin’ to derail or anything.. but have we had a ‘black women atheist’ post before?

Now I’m not calling myself an atheist but I don’t believe in God. BUT I AM spiritual in a logical way. I have always questioned what is around me. I TRIED so hard to be a Christian and believe in it but I just could not. The book of Job is the most disturbing (out of the disturbing) stories in the bible to me. I have literally visited websites to prove what was in the Bible. gotquestions.org I tried so hard, I even cried about it. And then I read in the Bible that you have to genuinely believe what the bible says and to NEVER question it… OR YO ASS GON BURN IN ETERNAL HELL FIRE. So either way… I’m going to hell right? All my friends gone be there anyway though. LOL

I was told when I was about 7 that I was going to burn in hell if I didn’t believe in Jesus. That f*cked with my little head at the time.. THEN this woman made me watch The Passion of Christ. I WAS 10!!

Anyway. Whitney had to know what she was doing. She was extremely smart. But her daughter…

I wonder what makes people believe so adamantly.. is it just you do or… I’m satan’s little helper and he’s all in my head? Because it is difficult! It really makes me think.

Sunshine789

@heyimPearlilikefries I would really like to see a “Black woman Atheist” post too! Anyone else?

tracyreneejones

@Sunshine789 @heyimPearlilikefries You must really want this place to explode, we can have that conversation, but it won’t go well.

Skayi

I was born a Jehovah’s Witness. My family has always been the token black family in the church. Anyways, this year I had the courage to tell my parents that I don’t believe that being a “witness” is the only truth in the world. I told them that i’m an agnostic/atheist ( I say both bcz it’s very difficult to let go when that’s the only thing you ever heard your whole life) and my mom basically cried and blamed her self for not “teaching” me well enough and my dad keeps on asking me why i’m choosing the devil. I have no idea why other black women are religious, but in my case, it’s social, I wanna be able to talk to my family and friends. If some of you don’t know the moment a JW says they don’t believe in God, the shunning begins. But to each their own, as long as you are going to sleep happy.

kiki100

@Skayi Anytime people ask me those silly questions, I first ask them why are there are other virgin birth stories then ask what evidence they have that the bible is fact. We all know why BW are so religious. They have nothing else to hold on to. Their history alone spoke to tremendous suffering and it seems God was the only thing to call on. I am glad I am out of religion.

Sunshine789

@Skayi Good for you, Skayi. It is tough to leave the family faith. My mom did the same thing when I left the religion. It has taken a decade, but she finally sees me as a regular person who lives a good, moral life, rather than lecturing me about how my soul is in peril:)

@Skayi Hi Skayi. I once studied with a JW congregation and attended services. At the time, I was searching for a deeper understandng of the Bible, and I’ve always had a thirst for learning about different religions. I never joined because I was not ready to give up on certain pleasures in my life, and as an introvert, I could not participate in the “join/follow” lifestyle, if that makes any sense.
Anyway, I believe you have to do what you know to be true for you.

Browncow

@Skayi Oh Skayi…My family went to the Kingdom Hall when I was growing up for several years. My parents decided to leave and then we were unchurched for many years. I never understood why they left because that was the only place I knew until I was like 10 years old. Some of the beliefs have stayed with me (not the literalism though, I’m just not into that). I don’t really know what the shunning truly is because we just left and didn’t look back. I feel for you and your situation with your parents. I knew a young lady who was shunned from her family for not only leaving the church, but being a lesbian too (oh, grab the smelling salts!!! *sarcasm*). It was really painful for her not to be with her family, but she had her partner and a nice group of ex-JW friends. Hugs to you, and I hope your parents love you more than they fear any so-called hell.

MySmile

Also, though I believe in God (but am not exactly “religious”), I don’t believe that all “traditional Christians” or people with a strong faith are outrageous or overbearing….some churches and people give all Christians a bad rep… but I know there’s a difference. I just don’t like when people get pushy with their religion…..and there are so many things I don’t understand about traditional Christianity…I take no issue with the more tolerant Christians though. We can respect each other without agreeing.

Skayi

Wow some of these stories are great. I’ve just realized I always here stories about leaving religion, but it’s great to hear about the other side.

Avoc42883

I’m an atheist, but always hesitant to get into these discussions for fear of deeply offending folks which essentially derails the entire conversation. That being said, all someone needs to do is look at the out-of-wedlock rate among black women in this country and you can see where an adherence to religion has gotten us.

I’m quite aware of that, as like a lot of women of this board, I was raised with Christianity, Catholicism to be exact. I’m not saying its the reason for certain behaviors. But clearly it isn’t helping curb those behaviors either which I thought was part of the reason it existed? Black women are the most religious yet leading in out of wedlock births, what is going on there? Maybe its the superficial relationship with religion being described in this article? And if that relationship is superficial then what is it really doing for black women?

Sunshine789

@Avoc42883 I am an Atheist too, but from my view there actually seems to be very little adherance to religion going on. Growing up, I was a different religion than my cousins. I remember once asking them about the details of their faith. They couldn’t answer them. They literally had no idea. This was not an isolated incident. I have seen this repeated over and over again – from the average person who can only quote a few bible verses, to the crazy right-winger who twists quotes to fit their own evil agendas.

Most people believe in God, but then go do their own thing most of the time. Then, when they make a mistake, they pray to God rather than think critically about their mistakes. I have MANY women in my family who have children out of wedlock. They all came from super-religious families, and call themselves super-religious. But they still hit the club every weekend and have unprotected sex, then find themselves in the church Sunday morning praying for forgivness.

I think a lot of young women get conflicting messages. On the one hand, they are told to be chaste, save it for marriage etc… But on the other hand, they are told that children are a blessing no matter what, and that birth control will make them “fast” and that abortion is a sin. And then they watch their very Christian single mothers go out on Saturday night to “find a man to take care of me”. Most people are not practicing what they preach.

I don’t think we need to throw religion out, but more people need to spend time with a shrink rather than a pastor if we are going to get ahead as a people. A lot of people are doing mental gymnastics in their head to justify their bad choices because “God forgives”. People need to take some of the mystery out of religion and stop looking at it as some kind of magical cure-all. That view has led many a black woman down a path to destruction.

Avoc42883

@Sunshine789 “I don’t think we need to throw religion out, but more people need to spend time with a shrink rather than a pastor if we are going to get ahead as a people.” AMEN.

Lady A

It’s amazing how people can complain about religious. Call it too restricting, say it’s too judgmental, say it’s too controlling and interferes with our natural desire for freedom. Funny because religion isn’t a “thing” or a live “person” so the fact that this practice has such a grasp on people who despise it makes me realize how people are.

And what’s so ironic, is that the same people who complain about religion ARE THE MAIN ONE’S WHO PRACTICE THE SO CALL JUDGING(talking about someone, judging someone based on character or lifestyle), INTERFERING WITH A PERSON’S FREEDOM(Many things can apply to this, worrying about what the next person is doing), and do we not have a government and laws to abide by anyway? So why are people so uptight about religion?

We preach about individuals freedom yet as a country and a human race WE NEVER PRACTICE WHAT WE PREACH. OH BUT WE LIKE TO PLAY PICK AND CHOOSE, though it’s totally a contradiction to where we’re trying to go as a human race.

Bottom line is you can’t bash and complain about religion based off of what kind of assumption you’ve developed about it and then do THE EXACT SAME THINGS YOU’RE COMPLAINING IT DOES THROUGHOUT YOUR DAILY LIVES. Funny thing is to see so many people say how misogynistic religion is and then turn around and pedestal place gender roles for men and women.

Lady A

You can’t sit here and celebrate Halloween, Christmas and all of these other fun Holidays and then bash religion. Can’t sit here and complain about it then practice some of the things that religion is accused for and known for.Like the atheist who said keep Christmas but not Christ. So you spend all of your life preaching to people how you feel it’s outrageous to believe in something you don’t believe exists or is make believe, but Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Bugs Bunny, Superman, Batman and everyone else in the clear, as long as it doesn’t have anything to do with Jesus or God right?

So in other words it’s cool to be judgmental, it’s cool to bash, it’s cool to be a misogynist, it’s cool to do all of the things and apply to the rules of humanity as long as it’s not religious operated? HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE? Sounds a little hypocritical and selfish to me. That’s what I get from most anti-religious individuals.

It’s just a big circle of contradiction. Not only that but most don’t realize you’re doing the same thing you’re judging against force feeding someone onto a person, and lumping a certain group into one box.

GETTING RID OF RELIGION WILL NOT STOP YOU FROM JUDGING ANYONE OR ANYTHING, IT WON’T STOP CRIME, IT WON’T STOP SHAMING, IT WON’T STOP PEOPLE FROM LIVING THEIR LIVES AS THEY SEE FIT, because if it was such a pain in the butt then this entire country would be like living with NUNS. People are still doing what they want to do without religion so why sit here and complain and generalize?

Some anti-religious individuals are no better just because they agree with same sex marriage doesn’t symbolize they actually sit down and try to understand anyone or others better. You can’t talk about atheism, Christianity, religion or anything of that nature WITHOUT A CRAP LOAD OF CONTRADICTION FOLLOWING BEHIND.

“You can’t sit here and celebrate Halloween, Christmas and all of these other fun Holidays and then bash religion. ”

Yes, because buying a Christmas tree is the exact same thing as denying someone the right to marry or refusing to sell someone birth control. Let’s not get coy. People have been known to use their religious principles to justify ugly treatment of other people.

And until such behavior STOPS, and especially other persons within those religious groups speak up, rather than thinking saying, “Well it’s not me, so….” is enough. I’m a heterosexual woman, but not being gay is not a good enough justification for silence in the face of dated and problematic behaviors. Just because one does not participate in backward and hurtful behaviors does not mean one is exempt from feeling the weight of judgement for things that have been done and allowed in the name of one’s religion.

It’s easy to pretend that negative behaviors are the result of “anti-religion”. Introspection is needed and much more useful in this case than indignation.

Lady A

Also isn’t this place full of slut shaming and judging? Then I see **hugs kisses** Oh my dearest it’s just so sad about the trials you had to go through inside off big bad religion” **one day later** “You slutty, filthy woman that’s not what women are suppose to be doing, I hate feminist!” Arrgh! Because if that’s the non-believing so called “better” indication of the future then I don’t see much of a difference. So amazed to see people give stories about being so sad about people telling them they’re gonna go to heck if they don’t do this, but a few days ago argue people down about how horrible a woman is if she doesn’t sit, be still and be a good little dog regarding her sexuality. I don’t do the “It’s different, or apples to oranges” excuse it’s pretty much the same logic being applied. I’ve seen the black atheist vs. religion black people argument since I’ve been online and it’s still the same nonsense basically a circle of hypocrisy from both sides, both trying to recruit and force their opinion AKA BELIEFS on others so they can join their side, and I see no attempt to understand and try to coexist, it’s so annoying. This always brings my inner “emo” out, the hypocrisy of human beings to be exact.

KingsDaughter

Might be the wrong place to be posting this I don’t know… but my word, the last 10 days or so on BBW have been such downers. So much bristling and all round moroseness.

tracyreneejones

@KingsDaughter Discussion won’t always be pleasant, its unfortunate but a reality of life.
Bristling, yes, but there are those recipe and marriage articles to peruse through. 🙂

KingsDaughter

@tracyreneejones “Discussion won’t always be pleasant, its unfortunate but a reality of life.”

Of course.

But I believe in middle ground, giving the benefit of doubt and generally having a positive outlook. Sometimes it’s all too negative. Anyway, that’s me.

@tracyreneejones @KingsDaughter “Bristling, yes, but there are those recipe and marriage articles to peruse through. 🙂 ”

Exactly. There are PLENTY of positive posts. People need to actually read and participate, rather than skipping on the way to the latest drama. Just saying….

MySmile

@KingsDaughter It’s always good to have a balance. I read these posts and the fitness posts..and Chef Bob’s recipes..can’t forget about Bob…

Lady A

@KingsDaughter I totally agree and it’s been quite intolerable on here lately. Very contradicting too.

Sunshine789

As an Atheist, I don’t want to judge anyone elses religion. We all make our choices and I made mine. But I think what the facts in this article reveal is that religion is not shorthand for having a better life. No matter what faith-system you subscribe to, you still are in the drivers seat and make the choices. When I hear people saying “I am giving it over to God” it gives me pause. God may be your source of strength, but he is not going to make you choose to eat that cupcake! I think many religious people make bad choices, and many make good choices. But I do think that (in some cases) the “eternal forgivness” promised by some religions allows many people to not closely examine their bad choices. I hear people crying out to God, pleading to God, blaming God, but rarely saying “I” when it comes to personal responsibility.

Historically, when black people were slaves, faith was the thing that got us through the tough times. But it was also a tool that slavemasters used to brainwash us. Many black women cling to the good parts of religion without being able to critically look at the bad parts. Some religious black women I know will get angry at the thought of questioning their faith. Is faith so fragile that it can’t be questioned? Morality and calling one’s self religious are not the same things. People give me a lot of flak for being an atheist, but I am often able to tick off the ways that I am leading a moral life, and how they are often living completely immorally – according to their own standards. What you call yourself means absolutely nothing. It is the choices that you make that matter, and clearly some BW should spend more time talking to a psychiatrist and working through their issues, rather than leaning on a preacher – many whom have scandalous motivations.

As BW, we historically have a lot more problems to deal with – including generational poverty. I just don’t think religion is offering us enough as a community. I am not saying get rid of it – but people need to stop pretending like it some end-all, be-all. I have seen many of my most religious, in church every day, saved, sanctified and all that jazz family members die horribly from poverty, bad health, drugs, and murder by spouses. If they had spent less time in the church, and more time with a psychiatrist or a drug counselor, or nutritionist, then maybe they would still be here today alive.

“You can’t sit here and celebrate Halloween, Christmas and all of these other fun Holidays and then bash religion. Can’t sit here and complain about it then practice some of the things that religion is accused for and known for.Like the atheist who said keep Christmas but not Christ. So you spend all of your life preaching to people how you feel it’s outrageous to believe in something you don’t believe exists or is make believe, but Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Bugs Bunny, Superman, Batman and everyone else in the clear, as long as it doesn’t have anything to do with Jesus or God right?”

Tooth Fairy and her mythical homeboys/girls are not taken very seriously. I believed in these myths until I was about… never did in the first place. It always up to a point… no ninety year old person still believes in Santa Claus. This argument makes very little sense. And people don’t worship these mythical things. Christmas has been made to include non-religious people. Christians have it for Jesus B-day, and everybody else… has Santa. I though Halloween was the Devil’s holiday? That’s what my granny keep saying.

So personally I still celebrate those holidays.. but I guess you can say, on Easter when every body is at Church’s Easter Jimmy is at the house egg decorating. And you also forget that Christianity for a lot of people has become culture. Just like some Jews who don’t believe in God, still call themselves Jews and celebrate Passover because it is CULTURE. I know a few of those. So it’s culture. And it’s tradition.

PS: Batman, Superman, and them are from comic books. And they don’t have their own churches and stuff.

MySmile

@heyimPearlilikefries “Tooth Fairy and her mythical homeboys/girls are not taken very seriously” “Batman, Superman, and them are from comic books. And they don’t have their own churches and stuff. ”

LMAO!!

Sunshine789

@heyimPearlilikefries To be fair, Superman has the Fortress of Solitude, which is kind of like a church…

Sunshine789

I think religion puts the wrong emphasis on having “strong faith”. I constantly hear people reaffirming their belief in God and being praised that they believe so strongly, but I have to wonder if that isn’t misguided. I don’t mean that to criticize faith, or say that people shouldn’t believe, but I feel that if you can’t examine your faith critically, then really, how can you truly know that it is valuable or useful?

It reminds me of a comedian I saw long ago. I can’t remember who it was, but the bit was something like “Why are black people the only ones proud of being stupid?” and then he gives a bunch of funny-but-true examples, kind of like a “ratchet” girl saying “I am proud of being ghetto, at least I’m not bougie”. I can’t remember the details, but it was cringeworthy, because I had heard so many people use the same examples he was giving. It was embarrassing.

I just feel like religion is kind of the same way. People are running around crowing about how “blessed” and “saved” they are, but they aren’t seeing concrete results in the community due to all of this “strong faith”. It just seems like religion has a way of taking the focus off of results. No matter how many mistake you make, as long as you have faith, all is ok… It just makes me kind of sad:(

I avoided this conversation because I pretty much knew where it was going. XD But having said that, I’ve read some things that really make me feel the need to speak up.

You don’t have to agree with someone’s belief system, but if you’re not willing to respect other people, you don’t deserve it yourself. And that’s regardless of what you believe. You don’t get to disrespect everything someone is and then act like they’re obligated to adjust themselves to your point of view. You can disagree with someone and still remember that you’re both human beings with thoughts and feelings.

And that should be all that can be said on the matter. This post was not about Atheism vs. Christianity, it was about a very simple concept: That despite all the religion black women are known for having, they seem to either turn to it when it’s inconvenient to do so, or turn away from it in order to enable problematic decision-making.

And the question is, why? Why claim to be so full of faith if that’s not when you run to when you should, rather than drugs, alcohol, or a bad relationship? Why be so full of “faith” in the face of simple logic where there are things you can do yourself to better your situation rather than leaving it up to religious figures or a religious deity?

I don’t think a belief system makes anyone desperate. After all, being a priest didn’t stop Georges Lemaître from laying the ground work for the Big Bang theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre And being by all accounts a religious zealot didn’t stop Sir Isaac Newton from being one of the greatest scientific minds to ever exist.

Nothing is black and white and it takes all kinds to make up the world. But it also takes responsibility for your thoughts and actions to be able to best contribute to the world around you. Black women can’t do it all by themselves, even if they claim they can, and even if other people tell them they can. Religion is just one thing many black women elect to turn to in order to alleviate a burden if they feel they have one. So? It’s not about religion, it’s about the person. If one is not harming other people, it doesn’t matter how religious they are or aren’t.

The focus should be on whether or not the tools you are using adequately help you, rather than devastate you.

Sunshine789

@Toni_M “I don’t think a belief system makes anyone desperate.” As an Atheist, I agree with this statement, and pretty much everything you wrote.. I think that when people are desperate, they will cling to anything, including religion. I think the underlying concept is that people are clinging to something, while not addressing the real problem. What they cling to is not important. MIchelle Obama got in trouble during the first election for saying that people “Cling to their guns” – which is true! Look at the gun debate now! People don’t like to be told that the way they are doing things is not working. I don’t think that the focus of this post is Atheism vs Religion – Atheism isn’t going to help with the problems of our community any more than religion is! The problem is when people get focused on the overall debate and allow themselves to be sidetracked away from addressing the nitty-gritty.

“The focus should be on whether or not the tools you are using adequately help you, rather than devastate you.”

This, a million times over. It is possible to fall so far down into the religious hole that you are devastated. This has nothing to do with religion itself – because it is passive. It has everything to do with a person’s ability to view their world accurately. Perhaps an overt obsession with religion could be considered a mental illness? That again, has nothing to do with religion being bad or wrong. But perhaps if so many women are failing in life completely, but obsessed with religion, yet not seeking help in other spheres, then we have some sort of a undiagnosed mental-health crisis of “religious obsession” on our hands?

tracyreneejones

@Sunshine789 @Toni_M “This has nothing to do with religion itself – because it is passive. It has everything to do with a person’s ability to view their world accurately. Perhaps an overt obsession with religion could be considered a mental illness? That again, has nothing to do with religion being bad or wrong. But perhaps if so many women are failing in life completely, but obsessed with religion, yet not seeking help in other spheres, then we have some sort of a undiagnosed mental-health crisis of “religious obsession” on our hands?”Girl…but try to have that conversation and you will be eaten alive.

Sunshine789

@tracyreneejones @Toni_M I didn’t mean to start anything….I am NOT attacking religion, or people being religious with that statement. I am just speaking anecdotally here…That being said, I have a few family members that gave their entire life and money to the church, while watching their own lives self-destruct. I wonder if they were “religiously obsessed”? No one (for obvious reasons) was ever going to call them out on going to church too often, or their rock-solid faith, but clearly something was going wrong.

I mean, there are those cult-evangalist types who refuse to take their kid to the doctor. Most people have no problem calling foul on that. But when a woman is suffering from drugs or bad relationships, we tell her to turn to the church. I think it is great that many churches hold AA meetings. I wish that there were as many church-psychiatrists as well. I just think a lot of people are desperate and need help that is more than the church can provide, and they are barking up the wrong tree. That doesn’t mean the church is bad, but I wish that it wasn’t taboo to tell someone “Go see your shrink 5 times a week, and miss a few church meetings for awhile”. (Hides under a desk) Seriously not trying to start anything, though…

Lexi88

@Sunshine789 @tracyreneejones @Toni_M

I would welcome a topic on Atheism or any other religion. If a person acts irrational, rude and lash out when discussing something like religion, that’s not a reflection of the religion or church…. that is who they are. Whether the discussion is about the Giants being the best football team in the league or what it means to be a Christian, they will react in the same ignorant manner, because that’s who they are.

“I wish that it wasn’t taboo to tell someone “Go see your shrink 5 times a week, and miss a few church meetings for awhile”.

I agree with you, but again, that is a black thing. I know plenty of white Christians who support and recommend mental health care. Many forget, that quite a few of the disciples were educated in the field of medicine, accounting, and so on… Black folks give their power to men, then complain that religion is the issue.

I think THAT would be a great topic for a post. The fear of mental health care in our community. I wonder if people turn to the church in some cases because they are avoiding the stigma of seeking out mental-health services? I know of many examples in my own community of people that had diagnosed problems who refused to continue treatment because they didn’t want anyone to think they were “crazy”, but still continued going to church where they would receive unconditional acceptance.

That would be a great topic. You know how we don’t like having our skeletons out in the open. Going to a shrink means there’s a problem, and acknowledging those problems, means we have to actually face some demons. One thing we know about our people (especially bw), we are great at pretending we’re not hurting.

Sunshine789

@Lexi88 @tracyreneejones @Toni_M So true! I have witnessed many “confessionals” while in religious settings. Women sharing stories of trauma that they clearly need help sorting out. Yet instead of telling a shrink, they are telling their girlfriend Ne ne. Now, Ne ne might be a good friend, but she does not have a PHD in Psych, nor the ability to prescribe meds. I think women are seeking out help instinctively, but not finding it. The advice to “pray on it” only goes so far!

SirLoinDeBeef

@tracyreneejones @Sunshine789 @Lexi88 @Toni_M Can I have the ‘graveyard shift?’

kia

MODERATORS: There’s something wrong with my comments recieving likes. When I leave a comment, people will click the like button. I come back the next day, and some of my comments have been unliked. Unless people are unliking my comments, I don’t know what the problem is.

MySmile

@kia Same thing here!!! I thought I was losing my mind for a sec…

cocoababe

@kia im pretty sure some of my comments are missing too 🙁

MySmile

@cocoababe @kia yea same here, a couple of my comments aren’t there at all…I don’t think I said anything that violated the TOS…

Lexi88

@MySmile @cocoababe @kia

I noticed the same last night….. Thought it was just me.

Brenda55

@kia Moderator’s note.

We have no control over who like or un-likes a comment that is controlled by the individual reader. We can only remove comments.

kia

I understand that. Just saying other people here are agreeing with me and saying the same thing is happening to their comments too.

Brenda55

@kia I understand which is why I checked the software. The problem is not at our end. There are no deleted post from this thread and we have no influence over who does or does not like a particular post. I even checked the spam folder and pending folder they are both empty.

kia

Maybe its the actual web site or livefyre program and the administrators need to be contacted.

@Brenda55 @kia I know sometimes I hit “like” by accident while trying to hit the reply button. :B So you never know.

DeepWater

@Brenda55 @kia Just our of curiosity Brenda55, what’s goin’ on with the points system? I’ve noticed there’s times when I comment that there are my points of, I think, 2022, and then other times there’s 0. I don’t think its a competitive system however one can tell newer posters from say the older posters. What’s up with that, lol?

Brenda55

@DeepWater @kia Beats me. I have no clue what those points mean either. I have had mine recycle several time since I have been on this blog.

DeepWater

@Brenda55 @kia Lol.

MySmile

Yeah, we did a little get off topic lol..not completely, but a little….That’s partially because this is a subject isn’t talked about much here. Like someone else said, it would be nice to have a more general religious post where we can talk about our personal beliefs.

MySmile

Yeah, we did a little get off topic lol..not completely, but a little….That’s partially because this is a subject isn’t talked about much here. Like someone else said, it would be nice to have a more general religious post where we can talk about our personal beliefs and experiences

Brenda55

Moderator’s note.
I have just checked the trash bin. No comments have been deleted from this thread.

kia

Specifically mentioning that people’s comments are being liked one day. The next day they have been unliked. In addition to some comments being completely deleted.

Brenda55

@kia See my response below.

kia

I have read your repsonses. Since other people have commented the same thing is happening to them. Maybe its the actual web site or livefyre program and the administrators need to be contacted.

Brenda55

@kia I am able to see what is behind the scenes with the site. I have checked. The problem is not at this end.

kia

Fine. It is what it is. If the problem continues to be unknown. If there’s nothing wrong on your end, or from the livefyre program, or the administrators of the site can’t find what’s wrong. I guess there’s nothing else that can be done.

MySmile

@kia I think it’s Livefyre because there have been problems with them before….it acts a little funny sometimes…

People’s actions have nothing to do with GOD, RELIGION or CHURCH. Isn’t this no brainer!? I guess not.

I am smart enough to never look at a person and think just b/c they scream GOD from the moutaintops or sit in Church every week, I do not automatically assume they are perfect or even right. I just assume they are a person with a free will who could or who could not be as faithful as they claim. END OF STORY.

LOL. There is a such thing as FREE WILL regardless of what your religion or faith is. Being human ALONE means you are NEVER going to always do the right thing or be perfect.

God has *NOTHING* to do with who choose to worship him. THAT MEANS YES, even phoney people, fake people, crazy people, evil people, can use religion, God, Christianity or whatever as a scapegoat or as a phoney basis in their lives to throw people (and even themselves) off.

That’s the funny thing about religion and GOD. ANYONE can use that even though they are not true followers, believers or whatever. Hence, the crazies we see in the pulpit, and other people who claim to be so religious but yet their actions are contradictory to their supposed faith. Look at all the rappers and entertainers that say “first I would like to thank GOD”. LOL! Yet they are rapping and doing all kinds of isht that are far from what everyone knows or believes of GOD in terms fo religion. So that is the sad part. ANYONE can claim religion and faith – ANYONE.

Why can’t people seperate the OBVIOUS two?

I mean what has religion or Christiantity or GOD have to do with people or BLACK WOMEN and thier actions? NADA.

In Christianity a GOOD PREACHER will make it abundantly CLEAR that just b/c you claim to be religious, or come to Church every week doesn’t mean JACK! That everyone still has FREE WILL. And our job is to do the best we can to avoid situations and things that are detrimental to our lives and our faith. PERIOD.

So what if Black women are supposedly more religious? AND? That doesn’t mean anything excpet that ont he surface more Black women are religious. That has nothing to do with who they really are as people and what thier faith TRULY is.

The ones who are just grabbing onto religion just to grab onto it and not really applying some of the more helpful things in thier lives to be the best they can be, should be judged as PEOPLE and not by their supposed religion or faith.

In my eyes (and yes b/c I believe in God) the only person that can truly know and judge whether someone is REALLY faithful is themselves and the GOD or higher power they believe in. THAT IS IT.

This is what ticks me off with athietss and people who are always criticzign religion. They cannot seem (or choose not to for obvious reasons) to separate the two (b/c then they’d have nothing to grovel about in terms of religion).

God nor religion should be discussed or compared when looking at a HUMAN BEINGS life. Just because someone may seme religious, show up at Church, openly praise God doesn’t mean they do and it has nothing to do with that RELIGION or GOD, but rather that PERSON using religion or God.

So for Whiteney and the billions of other BW who are “religious” but living foul lives, that has ALL to do with them and NADA to do with the religion or GOD they choose to worship.

I am not religious. But I am spiritual and I have a huge faith in a higher power and GOD. I have seen things come to fruition in my life b/c of my faith and prayers. I have a very blessed life and I know its b/c of what I have done for myself BUT with the major part being my faith to help me accomplish all of the things I have needed and wanted in my life.

however, I never claim to be perfect and FAR FROM IT! I don’t bible thump, I don’t care to push my spirituality onto others and I only discuss it with other women/people in my inner circle who are on the same page. I feel religious or spiritual people should STOP trying to recruit others b/c all people do is start criticizing thier efforts.

Just because someone is religious, spiritual or whatever doesn’t mean they will live a perfect stress free life. IN FACT, part of spirituality is tests. that means you will deal with obstacles and *seasons* in life where you will endure hardship, pain, suffering and ALOT of bad temptations.

The difference between the faithful person who comes through and wins and the one who doesn’t come through (i.e. WHITENEY and countless Black women) and loses, is one has chosen to rise above their obstacle or issue with the help of thier faith and spirituality or religion AND by taking the positive actions steps as INDIVIDUALS, while the other has chosen to become defined and live by that obstacle, season, temptation and simply CLAIM religion as some sort of saving grace despite thier bad choices.

Choice is always at the forefront of faith. And WHiteney and many other Black women may truly be faithful and spiritual in a sense or they MAY NOT BE, but the ones who are supposedly faithful and LOSING, they as HUAMN BEINGS have chosen to give into the other side of faith. That’s LIFE! That’s choice! Thats FREE WILL, and THAT has NADA, ZERO, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG to do with GOD, Christianity, Religion, the Bible, Church. it has ALLLLLLLL To do with THEM as PEOPLE and INDIVIDUALS.

cocoababe

@Neecy well said Neecy 🙂

MySmile

@Neecy

You make some good points as usual..I think in some cases, it is related…but not all. Of course, it’s way more complicated than just Atheist,Agnostic,etc = good…Christianity = bad! Even though I’m not particularly a fan of the black church or “bible thumpers” I’m not going to act like everyone else is perfect either. We all have our issues..lots of them! I don’t like that some Atheists think that religion, particularly Christianity is the root of all evil…there are many other reasons why bad things happen….I think the misuse of religion is a problem though…

You also make a good point that religion and spirituality are not necessarily the same thing….Someone can consider themselves a Christian and not be “religious”…but sometimes when you say spiritual people aren’t sure what it means…The terminology can be a bit confusing at times..

Some preachers do let you know that being at church doesn’t make you a Christian or a good person anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car… So I understand all churches aren’t there to manipulate and brainwash people…

Sunshine789

@MySmile @Neecy Atheist here. I don’t think that religion is the root of all evil at all. I think that people are. Sometimes those people are ones that wrap themselves up in religion, and religion gets attacked in the process of tearing that person down. But I do feel that that is the fault of the person misusing religion, not an Atheist for having to call that person out. True, some Atheists are rude, mean and agressive when making their point, but after you have been told by hundreds of people that you are going to burn in hell for living the same exact life they are leading, it gets to be a bit irritating…but still. That is no excuse for rudeness from anyone!

Also, many atheists are spiritual as well, and that is a place we can both come together. Atheists like myself get upset when people insinuate that we are somehow immoral because we don’t go under the mantle of religion, even though many religious folks are doing wrong way worse than we ever could! Quite frankly, there are only a small percentage of us in the US, and most of us are “in the closet” so to speak. We wouldn’t have to yell so loudly about those false-religious folks if religious people weren’t afraid to stand with us and call them out. Atheists really have limited power in this society, so it is funny to me how we are such a boogeyman amongst religious folks.

At the same time, many of my family and best friends are religious, and I donate time and money to their good works on a regular basis. I will also fight politically for their right to religion, just as much as I will fight for the right of separation of church and state. So, really I hope that in the future, religious people wont take our criticisms as “hating religion”, but as trying to reveal the people who are giving you a bad name.

Personally, I find I don’t even bother speaking with athiests on religion bc I don’t care how they view it or what they choose to believe or how they see people who embrace it. It does irk me however when they try to use religion, GOD as a scapegoat for why supposedly religious people make bad choices. The two are seperate IMO.

obviously a person doing all kinds of crazy stuff that is traditionally against what that religion stands for is NOT abiding my the principles of that religion. The two are mutually exclusive b/c its too easy for anyone to claim religion and be the opposite.

i am happy with what I choose to apply in my life to make it better and enhance it. They can choose life and beliefs ont hier own. but they really need to stop the religion bashing as well as the faith based religious people need to stop judging those who don’t want religion in thier lives.

So be it. let them live as they choose and stick with like minded religious people who you can relate to as should atheists stick to worrying about their beliefs or lack thereof and stay out of religious people’s business.

I think what turns people off about religious/spiritual people is the need for them to push themselves onto others who have no interest. I wish more religious people would leave people alone b/c some people just have no interest and I am not about forcing or trying to make people believe things. If they don’t wanna believe in God, so be it. I’m not going to waste energy or time trying to convince them they should.

Lady A

@Neecy TOO BAD PEOPLE CAN’T GRASP THIS SIMPLE CONCEPT. Well said.

KingsDaughter

@Neecy So on point Neecy!

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

I’m working p/t in a new area now, and it puts me in contact with lots of black southern church people. What I see is that a large number of black women are identifying themselves as pastors/preachers/ministers, or they are being introduced to me as such. I’ve always had in my head that such types should be somehow “above the world” in many ways. Since childhood I felt that if anyone carried such a title and had the job of teaching me about God, or expected to receive the reference that society puts on “people of the cloth” that they should not be catty, wordly, superficial, common…and the list goes on. But like the pastor in the news yesterday for the “why should I give you 18% when I give God 10%” tip at Applebee’s, …well they are just common! The ministry has always been attractive to blacks because one could wake-up one morning, saying that they “got the calling” the night before, started preaching, and BAM, in some circles, become instantly esteemed. And these days with these internets 🙂 there are all sorts of accrediting bodies ordaining folk. Free to cheap online, or in a few weeks or month at a church. These people expect discounts and freebies because they are preachers, they expect respect…and I can’t give out such based on title. Because this business of religion is one thing, and God is another. Religion is about systems, order, practice. God and spirituality are about belief, the individual and her relationship with source. It does not require the right hat, the right language, the hours on Sunday, or all that stuff you can buy at the Christian bookstore. (I am more on the Ancient Aliens, Zachariah Sitchin, the Dogon, and Sumerians tip anyway,and if some of you are curious and you haven’t explored it check it out.)

I can’t stand when a black person asks upon meeting me, “What church do you go to?”, like they just know that black=go to church. Or worse they ask first, “Who is your pastor?” because the pastor is the leader/celebrity. I was a heavy Alice Walker reader back in the day and her writing about paganism resonated with me in a way that nothing else that I had access to at that time could. And my dad, the outside in nature, in peace working in his garden, building one of his many thingamajigs, minding his own business, just in peace, while my mom pressed him to come to church with us. I wanted to be like him, to stay home and be in nature, because that is where I felt this thing called God. I felt connected to the wind and birds and that connection and love was God to me.

I am so rambling, but one quick story. Back in NY an older woman friend attended a funeral at one of those Brooklyn shotgun churches. She’s not a church-going woman herself but she went to comfort her friend. Well they’re sitting there on folding chairs. Oh, and it is freezing. Well looking out the window friend says “Here comes pastor.” New Mercedes. Wife’s FUR is dragging on the ground. My friend goes, “What in the…we are sitting in this cold church on folding chairs and your pastor pulls up in a Mercedes and wife’s fur is dragging on the ground? Why???????” Her friends response, “Ha, we like our pastor to look gooooood!” Just a story. All too common. That woman exemplifies what is wrong with black women in black churches, often, not always, many times. We have to forget about pleasing others and being a part of the club. Go deep and ask the hard questions about what serves our personal needs and what is a comfortable place to sit with the spirit that lies within us.

tracyreneejones

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics ” And my dad, the outside in nature, in peace working in his garden, building one of his many thingamajigs, minding his own business, just in peace, while my mom pressed him to come to church with us. I wanted to be like him, to stay home and be in nature, because that is where I felt this thing called God. I felt connected to the wind and birds and that connection and love was God to me. ”

That was my Dad and that’s what I wanted

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@tracyreneejones Sweet tracy! 🙂 Do you still want, or do you have, that?

For years now he and my mother have shared a healing practice in a new church and denomination. I am so pleased for them. I’ve joined them once and it’s all that I don’t like in religion, but again, I’m pleased for them and I’ve seen the peace that grew. So I am thankful.

tracyreneejones

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics I now have a peace that is my own unique blend. I am free to wonder at nature without having to become distracted with reasoning, it just is what it is. I am also able to move through life using my own, thought out and understood morality. From the Garden state, I do still enjoy outdoors. And I find wonderment in people, places and things. My father was very open and accepting, illiterate and kind. He knew about life, and the world, and how thing worked when you paid attention to things around you. My mother is educated, and bigoted and bias, and didn’t seem very into religion other than the routine, prestige and her friends (she did have friends that’s one positive thing I’ll say about our childhood church). Thing began to make more sense as I found what works for me. And once I began to embrace my need to hug trees (literally) and stare at bugs and such. 🙂

Sunshine789

@tracyreneejones @SparklyAquaMetaphysics ” And my dad, the outside in nature, in peace working in his garden, building one of his many thingamajigs, minding his own business, just in peace, while my mom pressed him to come to church with us. I wanted to be like him, to stay home and be in nature, because that is where I felt this thing called God. I felt connected to the wind and birds and that connection and love was God to me. ”

That is really beautiful! Thanks for sharing! As an Atheist, that was the closest I ever came to believing in God:)

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@Sunshine789 @tracyreneejones Thanks Sunshine. Sweet to hear! Meanwhile I have no definition of myself at this time so I have great admiration for those of you who have comfortably defined yourselves. It takes a lot of courage. It’s a process that’s for sure.

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics you have me on the floor with this one because it is so true. I could tell you story or too. It is sad how religion is used this way, and how some black women fall into the folds of such. When the church demands, DEMANDS more than half of your hard earned earnings, and your bills not being paid, but ‘stuff’ happening to the pastoral seniority and the congregations suffers…well that leads a lot of question! This is why it is not wrong for the judgement that gets passed on them, however, it is not an easy thing to just sit and say well, black people and religion, etc., there are so many reasons, and stories…and we would be here for a long time.

Statuesque

I can’t with religion. Myths and different religious doctrines are endlessly fascinating and I know that they are useful and comforting to millions of people, but I really just can’t. My spiritual beliefs are completely divorced from religion, for many, many reasons (some of which are quite offensive to religious believers, so I tend not to share them). I believe it is a humble acknowledgment of the fact that humanity may have the capacity to know, but hasn’t evolved enough to figure it out. For me, agnosticism allows the spirit to move freely, mysticism is a close second, and atheism is somewhat acceptable but has close-minded aspects similar to religion. I don’t like the certainty that culture- and time-bound religions express, especially their certainty that everyone else is bad/damned/confused/not doing it right.

I was always struck by how divergent Whitney’s beliefs about God were from her beliefs about herself. If I were to identify a problem with the faith that many Black women profess, it would be that they do not take all of that love, devotion and trust and give it to themselves first and foremost.

tracyreneejones

@Statuesque THAT…YES… For every accomplishment, good fortune, talent or anything positive, certain ppl will insist that God be thanked and overlook the contributions of ppl. That’s what I mean by taking away my ‘power’, its hard to explain. I would rather give praise to a deserving person than to a statue, the entire thing is strange to me. Like worshippers aren’t independent ppl, rather they are puppets or children. Giving away power, that sounds familiar!

Skayi

@Statuesque So nicely said.

arlette81

@Statuesque yes yes and yes, omg as an atheist i wish more black people would just give up religion or maybe accept the possibility that there may be no god. Its strange that i don’t know any black woman who is not religious.

Lady A

@arlette81 @Statuesque How is this mindset any different that the way some of you are going about religious people? Saying “I wish black people would accept that the fact that there is no God and just be atheist” is no different than a religious person saying “I wish you know that if you don’t believe in God you’ll go to hell”. The fact that the hypocrisy is blatant amongst non-believers and such, and none of you care really let’s me see that all in all, most religious and non-religious alike are basically the same.

THE D

@ Lady A
But your “quote” isn’t really what either of them said is it?

arlette81

@Statuesque if you are going to quote me don’t change anything i say. How on earth does me saying blacks should give up religion be in the same lane as a religious nut case wanting me to burn for eternity because i dont believe in god?

MySmile

@Statuesque “For me, agnosticism allows the spirit to move freely, mysticism is a close second, and atheism is somewhat acceptable but has close-minded aspects similar to religion. I don’t like the certainty that culture- and time-bound religions express”

I like this 🙂 Beautifully worded. I feel similar most times…especially the agnosticism part (see below for explanation on my complicated beliefs lol)…I feel more free just owning up to the fact that I don’t know about most things! Agnosticism is more fluid and I really like that..especially with me being “in between” and “uncertain”

Lady A

@Statuesque

But what about the people who’ve detached themselves from religion but still practice a lot of the stuff religion teaches? There are plenty close minded non-spiritual individuals and a lot of the comments on this site daily proves that. Some of you generalize, blame and shame the very black women you’re so called showing concern for amongst the big bad religion monster.

That’s why I side eye non-believers like many on here as well and overbearing religious people. It’s not about being enlightened so to speak, it’s about a more “entitled” approach. Like I said I absolutely dislike non-believes who preach stuff like this, in the name of bashing religious but DO NOT practice what they preach against. It gives me the “cake and eat it too” vibe.

But that’s self entitlement and arrogance of human beings that draws some people away. As visa versa. Putting all faith in humanity is no better than someone putting all faith in beliefs and a God. Both flawed approaches.

I better leave this post because I’m getting irritable.

Statuesque

@Lady A @Statuesque You’re describing me in your first sentence. Religions are like sets of clothing that are too restrictive and don’t fit well on me, so I’ve taken a piece here and there and remade a loose set of beliefs into my own outfit. It’s religious people and some faith-based atheists who have a problem with my clothes. If they could wear their clothes without trying to legislate, shame or bully people like me into submission I’d limit my critique of religion to the contents and not the practitioners. But that’s not how humanity rolls, to its detriment.
I don’t (or ever) agree with all that’s been said here or in any thread. What seems true of humanity in general is that it struggles to adopt beliefs and values that “live and let live.” There’s always the need to control behavior, thought and suppress any challenge to established orthodoxy. That’s what non-believers reject in religion, but many (especially atheists who have been near-traumatized by religios people) display the same needs for certainty and structure that religious believers develop. Both sides are human, after all.
Whatever you are reacting to in other posts isn’t in mine. It is simply true that Whitney’s strong faith and adherence to Christian orthodoxy did not cause, protect against or mitigate the harm she did to herself, nor did it influence her addict brother to protect his sister. Clearly religion is not the answer to the world’s or every person’s problems. People will say they weren’t real Christians but that is a cop out to me. They loved Jesus and loved worshipping him….I’d challenge anyone to locate a single Christian who can meet all of the requirements…isn’t the whole point supposed to be that flawed sinners can only stay motivated to try?

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@Statuesque @Lady @Statuesque Brilliant how you put that Statuesque, about the clothes and religion.

I just commented something similar, about wearing pieces of my belief (clothing) as undergarments where others that I’ve attempted to share/learn with have worn the pieces as overcoats/on their sleeves. I am not so comfortable with that and don’t feel that my personal belief system needs to be referenced in every sentence, every hello and good-bye…like the garb of Christianity that often gets in the way of a normal conversation. I mean to these people I want to say that in every breath I don’t need to be reminded of your holier than thou-ness.

And for whatever reason, your closing question “isn’t the whole point supposed to be that flawed sinners can only stay motivated to try?” reminds me of a fave quote from The Color Purple—“See daddy, sinners have souls too.”

mdiva2002

I really believe many black women believe in God because it is part of tradition ‘My mom went to church just like your great-grandmother went to church so you have to go and so on.’ I don’t believe it is desperation. Black churches were a place for community gathering, a way to teach black slaves and free blacks to read & learn, a form of networking for jobs as well as a source of faith. Now a days sadly black churches are seldom the things above.

As far as Whitney goes after reading the story from the Huffington Post(I can’t view the video because the country I’m now residing in won’t allow it.) it seems like her family wants to put the blame on every one from the brother to Bobby as the source for Whitney’s downfall. But, Whitney had free will and all the talk about it being the 80’s & 90’s people didn’t know the effects of drugs is just wishful thinking. I was pretty young back then but with Regan starting the war on crime/drugs not sure if anyone remembers Nancy’s Regan commercials and slogan “Say No to Drugs” and 90’s commercials with the cooked egg “This is your brain on drugs…any questions.” You had to have been living in an cocoon not to know that drugs weren’t bad for you. Sadly Whitney choose her own path and I truly believe she was dealing with demons her family and fans will never know about. Many of my family members, friends esp. the females that use drugs use it as a coping mechanism some were molested as a child, raped, beaten, mentally abused or all of the above, some prevailed from it through God, family, friends or just a belief in themselves(Some are Christian and some are not) and some sadly are still using drugs or lost the fight through death. Just like some of my friend that lost the battle they were Christians just like Whitney. I really don’t believe Whitney’s faith in God would have helped her if she didn’t have faith in her own self.

There is a difference between walking with God and being religious. A girl I went to school with went to one of those holiness churches where you could not wear pants. she wore dresses every day, but was a little on the fast side and was pregnant at 16. The ones who have a genuine walk with God, are different than the ones who just have religion just watch their conduct. I see (c)rappers who rap these vulgar songs then when they win an award go on stage and thank our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for that vile garbage. REALLY??? I went to a mega church where some of the prayer ministers are PORN STARS I was told later (no joke). I left that church but was in shock. So I think for alot of black women going to church is more a habit (they have been going since they were born) than a relationship and connection with their creator.

cc97

@DU2
“There is a difference between walking with God and being religious.”

I’m sorry, but who are you to tell me, or anyone that. I have seen and experienced both with my own eyes, so excuse me if I say that you sound like nothing more than an ignorant and self-righteous person

@cc97 @DU2 I have to agree with @cc97 , @DU2 , what you stated sounds really self-righteous just like all of these churches who are there to love and guide, they sit and judge and behind close doors they do stuff God himself weeps over! Who are we, any of us to judge what the other person does, what they like, how they worship, if they are spiritual or not, whether they pray or not, they probably pray but they do it with their eyes open, but they do pray; and only God the Father, and Jesus the son knows all these doings because only He will judge when the time comes. So to me personally it doesn’t matter what you, (so to speak) or anyone else thinks about me and my personal beliefs, it is however, between the God whom I worship and me. Because all religion might be different, all God’s might be different and way of worshiping might be different, but it all leads to him, one God, IMO. And my beliefs may not be the same as yours, but I respect whatever it is you do, and I leave it alone.

Most women, black women will hold on to what they know because it gives them comfort, it doesn’t judge them, and it is what they know especially in times of crisis. So what does it matter really? It is what it is, and the good Lord knows when he wants us on our knees, he does whatever he wants to get us there. Life. (gingerly steps away from the mike… )

DU2

@ForeverSerenity @cc97 Forever serenity I do not know what your problem is,This is not a personal attack of your personal beliefs so why are you responding to this like it is? It is really PATHETIC when people do not PAY ATTENTION to what is being said and it is obvious you and @cc97 did not pay attention or chose to ignore what I said and turn it into a personal attack. I said clearly (not that I have to defend myself to you because I do not know either of you and you mean NOTHING to me and add NO VALUE to my life) in part of my statements I said if a BW is going to church, shouting falling out for years but there is no change in her life that it is not working. This is not a critique of their method of worship, how they pray, if they find comfort or not inside the church walls,etc. When God is moving in someones life it will be evident in some form or another. A dear woman of God I know 90 years young whose pastor now deceased got saved, was once a part of the the Chicago Mob in the 1930’s and strung out on drugs, when he got saved, his life changed, he was out of the mob, off drugs, and began a new way of life, it was a natural outflow of a life changing encounter with God. If he were still a part of the mob, killing people, doing and selling drugs, pimping, etc. but still went to church, then he is just being religious. Religion and relationship are not the same thing. I know who Obama is, but I do not know him personally or intimately, but Michelle does and so do Sasha and Malia. Based on your comment it appears you have a bible in your possesion. Jesus said you will know them by their FRUIT. If someone is professing to be say an apple tree, then they should produce apples if they produce figs or lemons, then they are not telling the truth. It is common sense. If someone sings the praises of a weight loss program, but after 15 years they weigh the same. it is not ignorant or self righteous to say “you know either the program is flawed or you are not using it correctly because after 15 years you should have lost the weight by now.” Jesus made judgement calls all the time but they were righteous judgements. He called the religious leaders out for not living up to the standard they were professing. You are right our walk with God is an individual choice and if it is genuine, it will be evident.

DU2

@cc97 There is a saying when you throw a rock at a pack of dogs the one that hollers is the one that is hit. Whom am I to tell you?? I have not told you anything directly. I do not know you so how dare you come on this feed and level accusations? I am neither ignorant or self-righteous. I stated my opinion, that is it. An ignorant person is on who levels accusations and insults not seeking understanding and not to mention a coward to use a blog to blow their steam. You have a right to your feelings and thoughts on the matter but no one has to put up with your rude attitude in the process.

t23

Dueteronomy 30:19 states” I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.” God did not tell Whitney Houston to take drugs and shorten her life. God tells Christians do not be of the world. He also says do not fornicate, commit adultery, murder, kill and so much more. In the book of Daniel, Daniel chose not to defile his body with the king’s wine and food, foods of the world. He wanted to be healthy and strong for himself and God. God has given us so many different fruits and vegetables where we don’t have to be” fat, sick, and nearly dead.” We cannot always blame God for things we have control over. Whitney Houston made a choice and everyday we have to make a choice to choose life or death we have to carry our cross daily. And since his strength is sufficient enough for me I will choose life.

jakethewrestler

Science has proven wat AA has always known is that Alcoholism and drug addictions are diseases just like cancer. there are no cures. if you get treeted for cancer it may come back or you may get side effects from the treatement that can be just as bad. same with drugs the addition is always there. Plus studies have show we are genetlcally born with a baseline…..we have little control over 50% of our emotions. Whitney died of a disease. She needed a lot of help to fight it and did not get it.

jakethewrestler

Science has proven wat AA has always known is that Alcoholism and drug addictions are diseases just like cancer. there are no cures. if you get treeted for cancer it may come back or you may get side effects from the treatement that can be just as bad. same with drugs the addition is always there. Plus studies have show we are genetlcally born with a baseline…..we have little control over 50% of our emotions. Whitney died of a disease. She needed a lot of help to fight it and did not get it. we will always love you Whitney

Lady A

I’m just gonna say it I know I’m gonna step on some toes but oh well. All I see is religion bashing on here, specifically Christianity as expected. I know we’re becoming a more secular society, and the fact that a lot of political views reflect that can be the influence of many others. However growing up in a religious and Christian based family I feel like the way some on here are bashing religion and blaming it for all of the problems amongst black women and the black community is “MORE OF A COP OUT THAN MANY OF YOU CLAIMING BLAMING THE DEVIL IS”.

I feel there’s a lot of hypocrisy amongst these comments, and reading this site for a minute the way some people post about certain things, certain rules, certain roles, certain topics, I would have assumed this was one of the most religious based group, but to see that you all are not is mind boggling.

When we blame certain groups or people for the failure of their environment, themselves and others I recall a lot of us getting upset and assuming it’s “generalizing” or stereotyping. However, I’ve seen countless posts on here of people blaming religion for so many things amongst black women, when it has nothing to do with that at all. Human beings are responsible FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR. Like I said before, like I say often you can throw religion out tomorrow completely AND IT’S NOT GOING TO SOLVE HUMANITY’S LOW POINTS. That’s because religion, lack of religion, spirituality and anything else HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE INABILITY OF HUMAN BEINGS TO BEHAVE.

If human beings could grasp that simple concept then arguments like these wouldn’t even exist. Also, YES people are entitled to their beliefs and whatever spiritual path they want to take, since you all agree with that, wouldn’t it be obvious to accept the fact that people are also entitled to their religion as well? No one should be shamed for being religious or being a Christian just because some have developed this Nazi hatred towards them based on a few individuals.

Isn’t that the same mentality society has towards minorities, gays, and others? Why is it acceptable towards the religious? Just like that post about fat shaming, we loathe shaming of any sort but it’s okay to do it towards that group. I’ve notice the growing hypocrisy of society and under this post.

Brenda55

Your particular ox is being gored and you do not like it. I understand. So long as the heat level is not raised these comments will continue and the thread will stay open.

There is no law around here that says that every poster has to like every thread. Just keep it civil. That means no personal attacks.

MySmile

“and reading this site for a minute the way some people post about certain things, certain rules, certain roles, certain topics, I would have assumed this was one of the most religious based group, but to see that you all are not is mind boggling.”

So if you have even slightly traditional views or morals, you must be super religious (and vice versa)? There are “traditional” Atheists, “modern” Christians, and everything in between…This misconception is troubling to me.. Religion is not always the reason behind someone’s personal choices or opinions…

cc97

@MySmile
I dont recall the previous poster stating that religion is always the reason behind peoples personal choices or beliefs. You’re overacting because you can’t even come up with a good response to your obvious prejudice

DU2

@Lady A From what I have observed in some of the comments it is not GENUINE faith that is being questioned it is the question of black women clinging to religion yet their lives are not transformed, they are in the same mess they were 15 years ago, they shout hallelujah fall out on the floor with 15 nurses fanning them and they get up and they are still getting high, getting pregnant by bums, still broken, still dysfunctional. There is no evidence of a transformed life. If you have truly come in contact with the living God, there will be evidence of his touch in a persons life,a change, a transformation, IMHO. I have seen it with my own eyes. I know some have their own view about what they believe, for me, I walk this path and I have seen those who are tied to religion and those connected to their creator and it is like knowing the difference between a live body and a corpse.

@DU2 @Lady Serious Truth Spoken….Could you call my momma? I’ve given up, sadly Creflo and em has won with her 🙁

LorMarie

@DU2 @Lady
Amen, DU2!! this bears repeating:

If you have truly come in contact with the living God, there will be evidence of his touch in a persons life,a change, a transformation, IMHO.

t23

“The bible says be still and know that I am God.” That’s the problem with the people outside looking in. Am I only suppose to cling to Jesus when my life is going good. But as soon as things turn south I am suppose to run. Not me! Not today! I know some of you guys have friends that only want something to do with you when you are good or when they want something from you, but the minute you are down or have nothing to offer they are gone. If they were a true friend and really loved you they would be in it for the good times and bad. I am in it with Jesus for life, because he is my savior and my friend. Whether I am a millionaire or working 9-5 and living check to check, people’s opinion who do not even call themselves a christian will not have me leaving my faith.

KingsDaughter

“I am in it with Jesus for life”
mm hmm 🙂 X2!!

cc97

There is sooo much truth to what your saying. People need to stop with the stereotypes and the bashing. Religion is the new target and evryone want to jump on the”spiritual but not religious” bandwagon.

SheThrives11

This post mirrors my thoughts about the unhealthy relationship I feel black women have with the church as it relates to a lack of personal responsibility. I wouldn’t necessarily say I gave up on religion. i went to a catholic university and reading about religious history is still a hobby of mine (I’m a bookworm, don’t judge). Although, I did give up on the christian church as well as religious systemic dogma 4 years ago when I realized I needed freedom to do and think as I pleased. I have respect for people who have used their faith as encouragement to succeed and persevere, but overall, I think it has more to do with their own personal will to do better than a belief in God.
I’m personally Agnostic as I do not know the answers to whether God exists, if there is an afterlife, and/or whether accepting faith is reasonable justification to ignore science. Yet, being Agnostic has not stopped me from hanging out with my Christian and Muslim friends without debate, attending mass every time I go to visit my alma mater, celebrating Chanukah with my Jewish ex-boyfriend, or even attending church with my mother on Christmas eve. We live in a religious pluralistic society and people should have a right to their own religious beliefs. It’s when they try to arrogantly stuff those beliefs down other people’s throats or use religion as a scapegoat instead of being held accountable when conflict rises.

MySmile

@SheThrives11 ” I have respect for people who have used their faith as encouragement to succeed and persevere, but overall, I think it has more to do with their own personal will to do better than a belief in God. ”

I was just agreeing with most of the commenter’s here, and I just had to add in my own life long search. I don’t believe in the Patriarchal Christan, Muslim or Jewish God systems anymore, haven’t for years. But I do believe in a creator and I am now studying the Goddess based African Woman belief systems. I hate how everything comes from the black mother; life, substance and long suffering support and and there is no acknowledgment of her in any God based form. There is no balance. The big three (religions, as well as the BC) take take and take from our blood sweat and tears for Milena and we have nothing to show for it. The answer for mystical or spiritual faith is out there, but just like everything else I’ve come to understand, if it is to benefit me as a Black woman I have to dig deep under lots of lies and crap to receive the spiritual affirmation that is enveloped in all that i am. Every Black woman I know craves that affirmation, and I feel in my bones that we stress the church so hard ( or dive deepest into all other destructional vices) because our appointed religious systems never really gives us that fully.

@berrygirl@mommykikican.blogspot.com I can understand your attraction to a Goddess based spirituality. I’ve read quite a few books on the subject–“The Spiral Dance,” “Drawing Down the Moon,” and “Jambalaya,” just to name a few. Years ago I seriously considered this as a spiritual path for myself, however, I lacked the courage to do so. I wish you well on your journey.

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@ShyVi Wow ShyVi you just took me back with “Jambalaya”. Loved it for a time.

@ShyVi Thank you for the book suggestions. I will get them! There has been so many serendipities in my life and usually pointing in a direction where most of the crowd’s not going. Heck, I’m an Atlanta girl living in Finland! ^o^ But yes a little courage and going with a gut feeling always seems to work well for me; or I learn what does not work, dust off a sore tail lol, and keep it moving… I truely believe what some people say crazy is: “Doing the same thing over and over, and each time expecting a different result.” Never stick to what ain’t workin, just because it feels nice not to change… (That’s my motto!)

SparklyAquaMetaphysics

@berrygirl@mommykikican.blogspot.com Good points berry. I have studied too. Very attractive to bw, some bw, for obvious reasons. I think that I am so noncommittal that like everything else, I simply dabbled. When I tried sharing/learning with a few other women I realized I wasn’t into their way of practicing (wearing it on their sleeves and constantly talking about it) so I just retreated back into my private learning. I guess it’s something that I wear a big piece of, but it’s more like an undergarment for me, than an overcoat, if that makes sense.

@SparklyAquaMetaphysics Sounds like how I would do things…And I know exactly what you mean.. Spirituality thats balanced, self affirming, liquid. (Not looking for another set of spiritual chains, just in pink!)

zipporah

WHITNEY went to an ‘all black church’. IMO many are as POLITICAL as they are SPIRITUAL…even more political–how in the hayell did her brother turn her on to CRACK ANYWAY? could she have just said NO? How come drugs and some blacks tend to GO TOGETHER? we do have free will–
BTW years ago i used to give my supervisor at my job a ride to work when her car broke down–and we went for drinks afterwards. She was with a friend of her moms who was smoking crack–i didnt smoke ANYTHING–I SAW HER GET ON CRACK THAT NIGHT— 3 months later she was fired–i havent seen her in years–i wonder if shes still alive as well.
I also have cousins and an nephey who been on this isht for YEARS–and i dont even smoke weed….or cigarettes

The_Boss

Wow. The decline of our nation can be summed up entirely in negative attitudes such as the one the author of this post displays. I have a question too. Why is it cool to be a cynical atheist? Why not have a deeper purpose for living, a connection to something bigger than yourself. Because God is that, and so much more. I’m nothing without the Lord who guides me and makes me a better person. That’s why I’m “desperate” for religion.

DU2

@The_Boss the very fact that you say you are desperate for religion tells me that you see religion and a relationship as one and the same, they are NOT. Of course there are always going to be nay sayers who mock and ridicule the faith of others, but as I said further down this feed is that there is a difference between having a relationship with the Most High (God) and having religion. I am going to treat you as if you know the bible and make some references the bible. Remember Paul (Saul) in the book of Acts 9 who was having christians arrested? He came in contact with Jesus on the Damascus road and his life was forever changed, he became a christian and stopped getting christians arrested and spent the rest of his life preaching the gospel. He was CHANGED as a result of that encounter, in other words, he had a connection with something greater than himself, God and his CONDUCT changed. In the book of John when Jesus had dinner at the the Tax collector Zaccheaus’ house, after his encounter, he volunteered to repay all he had cheated 4 times the amount he had taken. Jesus did not asking him to do this, he did it of his own volition because his heart was changed and he wanted to do the right thing (Luke 19:2-9). Story after story in the bible speaks of people who came in contact with God and their lives changed. That is what having a relationship with God Almighty will do; it changes and transforms you. What some of the ladies on this post are speaking of is non life transforming religion. God even spoke of this in the book if Isaiah about his own people, “These people praise me with their lips but their heart is far from me (Is 29:13). they did alot of “religious” activity, but they were far removed from God, they had no real relationship (connection) with him. If you truly have a relationship with God, your life will be different than it was before you trusted him and should continue to change until the day you die. People should say about you, “you are not the same person when I met you” if you are still the same shouting, falling out saying halleujah “christian” and your life has not transformed in the last 20 years, I am sorry you have religion, nor relationship. Kind of like people married in name only, so no religion and relationship are NOT the same thing. Jesus whose biggest challenges came at the hands of the religious leaders said that they would know people by their fruit, in other words an tree that claims to be an apple tree should bear apples. the same goes for pears, oranges, etc. and with people, if anyone claims to be a follower of Jesus, his or her life should manifest the FRUIT of it, if they are telling the truth. Anyone can be religious but not everyone has a relationship and there in lies the difference between the two.

DU2

@The_Boss the very fact that you say you are desperate for religion tells me that you see religion and a relationship as one and the same, they are NOT. Of course there are always going to be nay sayers who mock and ridicule the faith of others, but as I said further down this feed is that there is a difference between having a relationship with the Most High (God) and having religion. I am going to treat you as if you know the bible (because I do not know you) and make some references the bible. Remember Paul (Saul) in the book of Acts 9 who was having christians arrested? He came in contact with Jesus on the Damascus road and his life was forever changed, he became a christian and stopped getting christians arrested and spent the rest of his life preaching the gospel. He was CHANGED as a result of that encounter, in other words, he had a connection with something greater than himself, God and his CONDUCT changed. In the book of John when Jesus had dinner at the the Tax collector Zaccheaus’ house, after his encounter, he volunteered to repay all he had cheated 4 times the amount he had taken. Jesus did not asking him to do this, he did it of his own volition because his heart was changed and he wanted to do the right thing (Luke 19:2-9). Story after story in the bible speaks of people who came in contact with God and their lives changed. That is what having a relationship with God Almighty will do; it changes and transforms you. If you say you are pregnant, it is only a matter of time before you start to show. What some of the ladies on this post are speaking of is non life transforming religion. God even spoke of this in the book if Isaiah about his own people, “These people praise me with their lips but their heart is far from me (Is 29:13). they did alot of “religious” activity, but they were far removed from God, they had no real relationship (connection) with him. If you truly have a relationship with God, your life will be different than it was before you trusted him and should continue to change until the day you die People should say about you, “you are not the same person when I met you” if you are still the same shouting, falling out saying halleujah “christian” and your life has not transformed in the last 20 years, I am sorry you have religion, nor relationship. Kind of like people married in name only, So no religion and relationship are NOT the same thing. Jesus whose biggest challenges came at the hands of the religious leaders said that they would know people by their fruit, in other words an tree that claims to be an apple tree should bear apples. the same goes for pears, oranges, etc. and with people, if anyone claims to be a follower of Jesus, his or her life should manifest the FRUIT of it, if they are telling the truth. Anyone can be religious but not everyone has a relationship and there in lies the difference between the two. (My apologies for any type-os)

The_Boss

@DU2 I didn’t come into this article expecting to read that I am brainwashed and under the voodoo magic evil power of the church. I am an open minded individual, and I deeply understand the need to respect others’ beliefs. I don’t expect mine to be disregarded either. My religion introduced me to a relationship with my God. And every day I strive to be more ad more Holy, like Jesus Christ himself.
And let’s be honest, if you reject the concept of God, of tradition, then a mutiny on your part is soon to follow. You’ll be questioning everything you’ve ever come into contact with. And that’s great. But that type of negative attitude leads to negative actions. Besides, most people calling themselves atheists are simply unwilling to understand the Bible, and God in general. This cannot be denied.

MySmile

@The_Boss
“The decline of our nation can be summed up entirely in negative attitudes such as the one the author of this post displays.”

This is why black women are so scared to voice their real opinion on religious matters, because people like to shame them with words like the ones you just used. Not sure if that’s what you were trying to do but that’s what I got from it. You really think that is why our nation is declining? Well, you have the right to your opinion.. I don’t think our nation is declining though, just evolving…Our nation was never a perfect place to begin with (Slavery, wars, Jim crow, the Great Depression, Rodney King?) There are plenty of reasons why the US seems to be on the decline but one reason is possibly due to lack of widespread morals, not necessarily lack of religion…but that’s just my opinion… How is she being negative because she has an opinion?

“Why not have a deeper purpose for living, a connection to something bigger than yourself.”

Someone can be an Atheist, Agnostic, or whatever and still have a deeper purpose for living….

cc97

@MySmile @The_Boss
This is why black women are so scared to voice their real opinion on religious matters, because people like to shame them with words like the ones you just used.

I’m sorry,but who made you the voice of all black women. I didnt feel shamed by what he said at all. In fact I agree with everything he stated and maybe you’re the one with issues

The_Boss

@cc97 Both you and the author have negative attitudes toward religion that I cannot respect. And that’s that.

DU2

@cc97 @MySmile @The_Boss cc97 who made you the self appointed committee of one to police every persons thoughts, feelings and opinions that you do not agree with on the matter?

The_Boss

@MySmile morals decline when religion becomes less popular. There’s a linear relationship that cannot be denied.

DU2

I will say one more thing and then I pack up my soapbox in addressing this. Again there is a difference between relationship and religion. There was a singer/musician named Billy Preston, he was known as the “Fifth Beetle” who as a little boy was being sexually abused by a deacon in the church he and his mother attended. He told his mother what was being done to him. She did nothing, she remained a faithful member of that church knowing full well what was done to her son and the deacon continued to abuse her son for sometime thereafter. How many black women justify this behavior in the name of Jesus?This is not to demonize genuine faith but to address what I think LorMarie was trying to confront that some black women are so tied to “religion” (NOT relationship with God) that they will sacrifice anyone and anything to hold on to it.

This is from a blog on Preston:
It is silently and collectively engrained in our (black) culture that if we ignore certain things it will enable us to maintain our OWN level of sanity… even when it has to do with someone harming our children… but what about the child’s sanity?Billy Preston’s mother refused to accept what Billy had confessed to her as a child, he told her that he was being molested by a man. His mother’s refusal to accept the news categorically (and ironically) weighed heavier than the molestation itself by destroying Billy’s self worth well into the realm of his adulthood and massive success.

KinkyBottleBlonde00

I think it’s b/c of tradition more so than personal conviction. The “Black Church” seems more like a culture than a faction within a faith sect. It wouldn’t be so contradictory if people were sincere in their practice. For some people that requires faith, and others, it requires serious questioning and searching. The religiousness in Black America is a practice that seems ingrained with this system of belief of coming from a place of suffering and less than and learned helplessness, IMO. I believe our attempts in trying to make peace with our existence and place in this world is reflected in how we search the answers. We see how there is this obligation to include a deity in life activities and to acknowledge something and someone beyond ourselves, but there’s this gap between the orthodoxy and orthopraxy that points to some flawed foundation regarding understanding our purposes or reasons for being.

For the record, I have nothing against religion and any man-made institution…it is what you make of it, afterall. I myself am of the sect many would refer to as “Catholic Lite”, though I am more spiritual than religious. There is a time and place for everything, and for some people, religion is just the path their life’s purpose happened to be on, and it has the potential to change their life for the better.

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