But that over-the-top stance was intentional, a rhetorical device to make a point about iTunes' awfulness. (And iTunes is genuinely, unmitigatedly awful.)

Right, sulfur dick. It totally sucks. It probably wont stay in business for 5 more minutes it's so awful. It's saying stuff just like this that makes people realize that you are either a moron or a troll. I'm good either way but it seems you take the position that troll is not the correct answer.

Been accused of trolling once on fark, when I was not. It pissed me off, to be honest. I was stating my opinion on something I actually have some experience base in, and got accused of trolling by some super touchy type.

I was under the impression that it was a choice? If you train someone to adopt a behavior that you want them to have from an early age then you've effectively taken the right of choice away from them and skewed their perspective on what is or isn't normal behavior. That makes you bad, and you should feel bad!

lordjupiter:halfof33: Between the Give Joe the Bird thread and the Benghazi threads, Noah could have floated an Ark on the tears of morans calling me a troll.

Me: There was no protest outside the embassy.Morans: YOU TROLLMe: the Administration admitted it todayMorans: YOU TROLLMe: Quote from AdministrationMorans: NO LINK YOU TROLLMe: LinkMorans: IGNORE LINK YOU TROLLMe: Link from some libolardo siteMorans: IT IS IRRELEVANT!!!! YOU TROLLme; le sigh.

reillan:Pffft. Atheism, as practiced by most atheists, is a religion. The only atheist position is not to argue about the existence or lack thereof of God/gods, because you know that it's a futile argument and a complete waste of time.

It's a good thing you aren't Webster and don't get to define what Atheism is.

Clue: you aren't trolling by arguing a counterpoint to the opinion of the group; however, if you don't know you've been licked and can't stop, you're stupid. If you know it and continue anyway, you're a troll.

I have called people here all kinds of shiat, because I'm a reactionary asshole. I have never called anyone a " troll" because it's an idiotic accusation. If you don't believe they're for real, ignore them (no, with your brain, not with some pussy ass ignore button)Otherwise, we're all just bullshiatting here so what's the difference?

The classic definition (from the Jargon File, which goes back to at least 1991) was as follows:

troll

1. v.,n. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to be in on it.

In Slashdot and other nerd-mecca websites, trolling became a art where people would intentionally take a position with which they disagreed and push the argument that much further until the idiocy of their position could easily be detected (a.k.a. satire). For example, there are many reasons one might use an iMac, but nobody would ever say they used an iMac because they had a ton of files on 3.5" floppy in some Apple format. Or that they used Linux because they could never find working drivers in Windows. These are the arguments made by a fan of Microsoft to point out the flaws in other options.

Now, as the internet grew, the alternate definition of "someone who posts flamebait just to get a response" grew correspondingly, as internet commenting moved away from the discussion-based model of trolling and into general one-liners at the bottom of someone else's work. Trolling a message board, which has rules, moderators, logins, reputation, whatever, requires dedication, commitment, and at least a modicum of intelligence. Trolling the comments below a blog post requires a basic knowledge of vulgarity and about five seconds. And trolling then became all about the emotional response - not about winning an argument.

Trolls these days (and /b/ was at the forefront of this shift) don't have an opinion or an agenda they're trying to push. They're simply after that kneejerk emotional response - they'll say whatever they think will get that reaction from the target. If your dog just died, it'll be about how all pitbulls should be put down before they eat children. If you're angry about teen pregnancy and abstinence-only sex ed in Mississippi, it'll be about black people having welfare babies. They don't particularly think pitbulls are dangerous, and probably aren't particularly racist, but they know that those topics will elicit an emotional response, so that's the basis of their comments.

Of course, because of the general fragmentation of the electorate, there are plenty of people these days who actually do have those opinions and now, in ever-growing numbers, can make those opinions known to others. So what was once the racist drivel spewed over a beer at the corner tap in Chucklefark, TN while watching Fox News, is instead a comment on Yahoo or Youtube that anyone can see. Which is why Poe's Law came into being - nobody can just troll racist or homophobic or otherwise backwards opinions any more without actually being taken seriously by somebody on the internet. There is no way of knowing if the guy talking about Muslim Sharia law coming to kill your daughter is actually that stupid, or just a 15 year old taking advantage of internet anonymity. And it's the second type of idiot that has become the new definition of troll - posting things not because of belief, or to advance an argument, or even as hyperbole not meant to be taken seriously, but with the goal and intention of causing someone else to flip out.

So the old art form of trolling is slowly dying away as nobody takes the time anymore to craft really elegant troll arguments. About the only one I can currently think of in operation is Stephen Colbert, whose pitch-perfect Republicanism is routinely taken to its ludicrous extreme to make a point. He's not after the emotional response (besides humor), he's actually making an argument against the Republican platform by showing its ridiculous underpinnings. What's left are a combination of true-believer idiots who are horribly misguided, and the trolls who parrot them to get a reaction.

1 trolling became a art where people would intentionally take a position with which they disagreed and push the argument that much further until the idiocy of their position could easily be detected

2 So the old art form of trolling is slowly dying away as nobody takes the time anymore to craft really elegant troll arguments

It's absolutely fascinating to me that not only do people like (1) exist, (as I must now by the many comments here), but that there are people that actually think that it's cool or clever to do this. I guess it's for people who actually believe they "win" an internet argument or "clowned" someone in a post.

I mean, you spend hours saying stuff you don't mean to people who want to debate a topic, then the joke's on them or something?It's like some frat boy who teabags a passed out guy. Let me get this straight, you just pulled out your dick and laid your balls on another guy's face, and we're supposed to make fun of the passed out guy? He's the joke?!?

Pffft. Atheism, as practiced by most atheists, is a religion. The only atheist position is not to argue about the existence or lack thereof of God/gods, because you know that it's a futile argument and a complete waste of time.

No, no, that's only if you're an AGNOSTIC atheist.

But that's exactly the point. Gnosticism is a religion, regardless of whether it's theistic or atheistic. To claim to know a specific about something which, by definition, cannot be known, is a religious belief.

Pffft. Atheism, as practiced by most atheists, is a religion. The only atheist position is not to argue about the existence or lack thereof of God/gods, because you know that it's a futile argument and a complete waste of time.

Now THIS is a troll.

Most atheists are super easy to troll, because they're fed up with the deliberate ignorance about their philosophical position. Even the most sanguine of posters can be gotten with a subtle dig at atheism.

Pffft. Atheism, as practiced by most atheists, is a religion. The only atheist position is not to argue about the existence or lack thereof of God/gods, because you know that it's a futile argument and a complete waste of time.

No, no, that's only if you're an AGNOSTIC atheist.

But that's exactly the point. Gnosticism is a religion, regardless of whether it's theistic or atheistic. To claim to know a specific about something which, by definition, cannot be known, is a religious belief.

Which is why most atheists don't make any claims, other than to point out that they don't believe the claims of the religious, and point to the evidence that disproves those claims.

Other troll indicators include:- Libs- Democrat Party- RON PAUL!!!11!!- the poster has 'troll' or some phonetic variant in his handle- any post by a female indicating a willingness to engage in sexual activity.

aselene:Dovetailing nicely with his assertion that the new definition of "troll" is "someone who says something you don't like," is Fark's longtime definition of "troll" as "anyone who dares express the conservative point of view, especially in stimulating, thought-provoking ways."

halfof33:Between the Give Joe the Bird thread and the Benghazi threads, Noah could have floated an Ark on the tears of morans calling me a troll.

Me: There was no protest outside the embassy.Morans: YOU TROLLMe: the Administration admitted it todayMorans: YOU TROLLMe: Quote from AdministrationMorans: NO LINK YOU TROLLMe: LinkMorans: IGNORE LINK YOU TROLLMe: Link from some libolardo siteMorans: IT IS IRRELEVANT!!!! YOU TROLLme; le sigh.

Well, if you aren't a troll then you are simply a retard. Frankly they are giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Uranus Is Huge!:Posts that begin with "FACT:" or end with Thanks Alot ________!

Other troll indicators include:- Libs- Democrat Party- RON PAUL!!!11!!- the poster has 'troll' or some phonetic variant in his handle- any post by a female indicating a willingness to engage in sexual activity.

Soooo, you're saying that I shouldn't be posing as a female offering free sexual favors online? I didn't know that was bad.

phyrkrakr:The classic definition (from the Jargon File, which goes back to at least 1991) was as follows:

Oh, great. You just reminded me of the way Eric Raymond used to follow me around at science fiction conventions practically drooling straight down my cleavage at every opportunity and insisting upon providing flute accompaniment whenever I pulled out my guitar.

/BTW, trolling predates a.f.u by at least a couple of years, if I remember correctly. I don't know for sure where it originated, but it was in use in talk.bizarre before the alt hierarchy even existed. i'm hitting up a couple of the elder gods for confirmation. Mike Godwin or Richard Sexton would know for sure, but i can't get to Facebook from work.

Rapmaster2000:Millennium: The overuse of the troll accusation in contemporary Internet culture comes from the same epistemological lock that the "my opposition doesn't think" meme does: the idea that one's own opinion is not merely correct, but the only sensible conclusion.

They branch only when it comes to the conclusion one makes about one's opponent. In the unthinking-opposition meme, the conclusion is that the opposition just hasn't thought things through enough, because obviously they'd agree with you if they were thinking deeply about these things the way you do. In the malicious-opposition meme, the conclusion is that the opposition doesn't really believe what they're saying: they actually think just as you do, but they're out to hurt people, and making these arguments is an effective way of doing that.

Needless to say, these are both ridiculous. Their spread is doing truly ludicrous levels of harm to national and international discourse. The problem lies in figuring out how to counteract it, particularly when political parties have found it so useful for motivating their own bases.

But is it possible to unintentionally troll? For example, have you ever observed when someone has been defeated in an argument and they move into non-sequiturs and red herrings as a way to prolong the argument or open a new attack? Isn't that the same as trolling.

Or does trolling require intent?

I think trolling does require intent or the knowledge that your opinion, when stated in the manner that you're committing to the internet for posterity, is going to cause butt-hurtedness (still intent).While a post not intended to be a troll may get people riled up and bring the trolls running, it's not a troll.

Say some retarded kid (all by himself) posts a video on Fark of himself holding a pop-gun and saying, "I wuv Sawa Pawin! Tee's my gwandmudwer, annnnnnnngruhhhll" [twitch]. Kid's operating at the level of a 28-month-old (Fark Birther level). This is not a troll.

Now say that "kid" is 44 years old, has a job on wall street, and is Republican = UltraMega-troll.

Now say that "kid" is 38 and is camped out in a park somewhere Occupying Wall Street = Massive Troll.

Now say that "kid" is 48 and in a basement apartment somewhere wearing only a sock and a crusty Superman T-shirt with no sleeves. The kid hasn't shaved since the city cut his water off two weeks ago and it hasn't been turned back on because his Mom doesn't get back from her cruise for 10 dys. (She's with the new boyfriend she met at the OTB who likes to make jokes when she's not around that he is going to spend all your inheritance on horses and whores--and he knows that if you tell your Mom what he said she won't believe you because you've been such a disappointment to her.) That kid's been living off of Fritos and Dr. Chunder (generic Dr.P) and has been re-smoking cigarette butts he stole out of the Smoker's Outpost at Dollar General. He's been using nothing but Mayonnaise as lube for his marathon internet-porn / self-abuse sessions that go on all night and last well into daylight. Regular, run-of-the-mill troll.

halfof33:Uchiha_Cycliste: Well, if you aren't a troll then you are simply a retard. Frankly they are giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I think it is important that people realize that he is calling me a "retard" because I pointed out that there was no protest outside the embassy in Benghazi before the attack there on 9/11/12.

That is his entire response.

I just want to make sure that no one missed this post.

Because for his next trick, he is going to count all the way up to potato.

No, I'm calling you a retard because you are either very, very stupid; or you lack the capacity for critical thought as a whole; or you are so ideologically entrenched you discard any and all things that do not support your world view; or possibly some combination of all of these. Your arguments always lack evidence to support your assertions. You typically ignore multiple people all trying to correct you and out of hand disregard what they are saying, choosing to believe you alone are right and the 50 people yelling a correction at you are wrong. I mean, if you in fact aren't a troll then you would be extremely worthy of pity, except that you are an intolerable asshole. So really, troll is the nicest thing people can say to you.

The best part of this is that my evaluation of you doesn't require us to be in agreement; in fact my evaluation hints at our views being diametrically opposed. Fortunately, I don't need your assent for my words to be truth.

\I think halfof33 is a pretty cool guy. eh talks out his ass and doesnt afraid of any-facts.

Uchiha_Cycliste:You typically ignore multiple people all trying to correct you and out of hand disregard what they are saying, choosing to believe you alone are right and the 50 people yelling a correction at you are wrong

It's worth noting, if I was a troll (which I'm not) that doesn't preclude you from being one.Bizarrely enough you keep trying to convince us you are not a troll, regardless of the fact that the alternatives to you being a troll are far worse.In fact I'll let you have this one, you're not a troll, you are a retard.Congratulations, you win.

Uchiha_Cycliste:It's worth noting, if I was a troll (which I'm not) that doesn't preclude you from being one.Bizarrely enough you keep trying to convince us you are not a troll, regardless of the fact that the alternatives to you being a troll are far worse.In fact I'll let you have this one, you're not a troll, you are a retard.Congratulations, you win.

I'm guessing you are not going to even try to actually support any claim whatsoever in your post from 2012-12-06 04:04:30 PM?

I mean, you seemed pretty sure, sport. Anything, anything at all? I mean you wouldn't be a farking hypocrite gas bag, right?

Pffft. Atheism, as practiced by most atheists, is a religion. The only atheist position is not to argue about the existence or lack thereof of God/gods, because you know that it's a futile argument and a complete waste of time.

No, no, that's only if you're an AGNOSTIC atheist.

But that's exactly the point. Gnosticism is a religion, regardless of whether it's theistic or atheistic. To claim to know a specific about something which, by definition, cannot be known, is a religious belief.

Which is why most atheists don't make any claims, other than to point out that they don't believe the claims of the religious, and point to the evidence that disproves those claims.

Too bad that's not atheism. Atheism is the belief that there is NO god. At least if the word is to have any meaning.

Remember when I said I don't need your assent to know the truth? Why would I suddenly care what you think now?Why don't we just ask all the other farkers in this thread what they think of you? it sure seems like you and I aren't going to come to an agreement.

Uchiha_Cycliste:Remember when I said I don't need your assent to know the truth? Why would I suddenly care what you think now?Why don't we just ask all the other farkers in this thread what they think of you? it sure seems like you and I aren't going to come to an agreement.