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In the early days, Bandler and Grinder did use hypnosis. That is because of their extensive study of Milton Erickson, a medical hypnotist. However, he referred to them as Bandit and Swindler. Later they dropped the emphasis on "hypnosis" and began to think of consciousness as a trance state.

IMHO, Ross Jefferies demonstrates that lack of ethics that became the downfall of NLP. There was a severe split between those who followed Grinder and those who followed Bandler.

NLP as a vocabulary and technology can aid the understanding of mental discipline and training. It will never replace good physical training, but can make that training more effective and efficient in skill acquisition.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!

Lynn I'd be interested in your take on the differences between these two groups and their emphasis?

IMHO, John Grinder was for ethics, elegance, and positive process. Richard Bandler was for ego, arrogance, and technicians.

Both brilliant. Together, they balanced each other. They started a great technology/vocabulary.

The constant put-downs of the established fields and the arroagnace of the technicians got NLP a bad reputation and didn't really produce the lasting change they promised through the razle-dazzle quick-fix.

Added to long-term mental and physical discipline/practice, NLP can assist the production of changes in the neuro-plasticity of the brain and produce lasting change/skill-acquisition.

Last edited by SeiserL : 09-18-2008 at 11:28 AM.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!

Just anote that Bandler has always used hypnosis throughout his career. His new thing is Neuro-hypnotic Patterning along with Design Human Engineering. For those who are interested, NLPConnections.com has a very nice forum represented by students of both Bandler and Grinder with spirited, respectful discussions of the differences between the two.

Well, being from Santa Cruz, I am familiar and friendly with the Grinder family. They are friends of my folks. Grinder and Bandler got their starts here at The UC and there is a strong local following.

I never got into their stuff very deeply because it was all around me and it struck me as manipulative. But I can tell you that after training in Aikido for many years and then being re-exposed to the NLP praxis, I found that Aikido by itself covered all of the same bases and seemingly accomplished it with more wholeness in the body, mind, and heart. The practice is greater than the individuals which is what makes it so worthy to me. Perhaps because, IMO, Aikido is a whole product of nature and NLP is a fragmented product of people.
But to each their own and I concede that NLP is a step on the ladder that some need.

I know nothing about NLP other than a co-worker who was really into it, used it on his kids. I thought it was a strange thing to do on kids, I thought there was some sinister motive behind it. Like it was a way to manipulate their memories and how they saw adults. A hypnotic mind (Fill in the blank), there is no way know of how effective he was. It gave me a negative view on NLP. Then as I started reading about Aikido and NLP I wasn't sure what to think.

I guess any good tool can be misused. NLP can be used with in good intentions. I side with Jennifer, I have to wonder to what extent are the negative effects of NLP, in the dojo. That is dependent of course on how powerful NLP is. Therefore, my question is how NLP can be abused and is it ethical if NLP is being taught to the students by a sensei or other who doesn't inform the students NLP is being used on them. What is that outcome and what can a student do about it. Should students be concerned. Etc. Etc.

For those who are interested in NLP/Aikido, you must check out Stephen Gilligan, especially his book, The Courage To Love. He is one of the early Santa Cruz NLP students and an Ericksonian Hypnotherapist. He is also a serious Aikido student and incorporates it into his work. I forget the name of his teacher but she is a student of Kazuo Chiba.
Charles

One more. Charlie Badenhop was one of the small group of non-Japanese training seriously with Koichi Tohei from the 70's. He teaches NLP and has developed what he calls Seishindo in which he blends NLP/Hypnosis, Aikido, and bodywork. He has a great website at www.seishindo.org which is full of articles about NLP and aikido. He also does seminars all over the world.

I love this post I think the discipline they really complement each other. It goes back to the fact that the human being is an integrate organism. Where all the parts are interconnect: mind, physical, emotional and also spiritual.

I love Nlp because he gives the chance to modelling the world and our own mind in order to achieve a specific outcome. We have to keep in mind that Nlp and Hypnosis are not exact science but a formidable discipline that can help anyone to achieve better results in Aikido or any other sport or in life in general.

And as Nlp student and Aikido newbie I believe that the more people approaches to these discipline the more the world can become a better place. Where people can be happier, healthier and wealthier.

And as long time Nlp student and new to Aikido I was wondering if any other techniques that can be applied in the Aikido from Nlp such: pace and leading, framing, matching and mirroring?