mutual admiration society...

Opposition frontbencher Malcolm Turnbull has defended former prime minister Kevin Rudd and praised his vision, saying the Labor Party is still paying for his sacking.

In a much-anticipated encounter on ABC1's Q&A, Mr Rudd and Mr Turnbull dodged questions about returning to the leadership of their respective parties.

Polls have shown that many Australians would like to see Mr Rudd and Mr Turnbull going head to head at the next election.

But Mr Rudd was enigmatic when asked about any lingering leadership speculation, saying "leadership has a number of different forms," and that February's ballot loss to Prime Minister Julia Gillard "made things pretty clear."

"There was an opportunity to deliberate on these things in February and the Prime Minister won 2-1 against myself in the parliamentary party ballot," he said.

However, Mr Turnbull was more forthright, saying it was "a matter of complete bafflement" that the Labor Party has not reinstated Mr Rudd.

"Your mob poleaxed because you stood up to the factions, that's why they got rid of you," he told Mr Rudd.

"The faceless men couldn't put up with you anymore and that was a shocking betrayal."

I suspect the fact is that Rudd was impossible to work with— he had the temper of a blow fly and the attention span of goldfish while busying himslef like an annoying mozzie... But the media will carry on with its misrepresentation of the "facts" and of course Turnbull stirs the pot some more while adding salt into the wound. There was NO BETRAYAL and Rudd could have chosen to have a leadership vote then but he knew he would loose 100 per cent. So he has been resentlful vengeful and annoyingly disloyal ever since.

Note: it's likely that about a month before the election, Rudd will be brought back to fight Tony with glorious popular polls, then retired once more... Unless Julia can slowly claw Labor back up in the "opinion" polls...

Malcolm Turnbull has told voters who want him to take over the Liberal leadership that he won't – but he assured them he would be an influential voice in a Tony Abbott cabinet.Clashing with Kevin Rudd on the ABCs Q&A program on Monday night, Mr Turnbull said the same could not be said of Mr Rudd and the Labor cabinet.Mr Rudd and Mr Turnbull, both preferred by voters as leaders of their respective parties, squared off on national television over issues ranging from tax reform to industrial relations.Mr Turnbull said he would not be the Liberal Party leader and "certainly not the next Liberal prime minister", but voters could be assured he would be at the cabinet table and part of the decision-making process.But the same could not be said of Labor, he said, because Mr Rudd would be on the back bench if Labor were re-elected.Mr Rudd said leadership had many forms. He said Mr Turnbull and Tony Abbott were chalk and cheese and Mr Turnbull would be more at home in Labor.Mr Turnbull shot back, saying Mr Rudd was in the same party as Eddie Obeid, whom Mr Rudd swiftly condemned. Mr Rudd said the Independent Commission Against Corruption hearings were important to Labor regaining its integrity.He dismissed a question suggesting he would be Labor leader again but decried the Balkanisation of politics, saying it had become "a rolling Punch and Judy show" and mature debate had become impossible."It suffocates effective discussion,' he said.Labor could win the next election, and Labor's greatest asset was Mr Abbott, he said.Mr Turnbull backed industry calls for changes to the industrial relations system but conceded the strength of the 2007 campaign against WorkChoices meant the Coalition had to tread lightly."There is no question we overreached with WorkChoices," he said, adding the Coalition now "needed to bring the community with it" and promise just incremental change.Mr Rudd said the electorate simply did not trust the Coalition on industrial relations.He chided Mr Turnbull for belonging to a political party that twice voted against a price on carbon and said he had not changed his view "one bit" on climate change policy after Mr Turnbull found himself defending the Coalition's direct action policy, which he had previously criticised.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/turnbull-plays-up-his-frontbench-role-in-tv-joust-with-rudd-20121119-29mo5.html#ixzz2CiTIaYZy----------------------------These two nogs have not blamed Abbott for the tone in which politics have descended into and this shows how disgenuine they both are... In fact there has been only a zillion "Punches" in the Punch and Judy show... Rarely has Julia descended to Tony's and his mates of goons' low class level. Her speech on misogyny was a masterful response to a stupid Tony low blow... Tony Abbott has been the most destructive force in Australian politics, even when he was a minister. Lucky Julia can hold him to account though the media is working hard to make sure Tony is presented as god.

In what seems like their natural habitat, both former leaders are highbrow and erudite, more interested in ideas than point-scoring; the audience laps it up and urges them to reboot their own political careers. Even Kevin Rudd's once toxic mining super-profit tax is embraced with nostalgic warmth.

The love flows in from the Twittersphere, harking back to a golden age when we had leaders who really stood for something.

After all, who can imagine Tony Abbott and Julia Gillard in a civilised wide-ranging policy debate?

If only the world were a Q&A set. But the reality is it's a lot messier and the lighting isn't as complimentary.

While the climate sceptics in the Coalition ranks got Malcolm, his leadership had been in free-fall since he traded secrets with Godwin Grech and lost out, attempting one of the more ambitious political Hail Mary's in recent political history. Ultimately Kevin's campaign truck collected him.

At the point of defeat Turnbull's approval ratings looked eerily similar to the numbers of the man who has replaced him and is so unpopular he is deemed 'unelectable' by sections of the commentariat.