You think they are really mad that some webmasters who want to use Opera may leave them? I bet <0.1% of people online use Opera, they could care less if they alienate a few people if the margin for supporting such a thing isn't worth it or they feel security is an issue. At least with MS if there is a security breach you know there will be an update shortly as they have tons of people working this area.

Well I'll be. I was thinking of trying Wells Fargo but since I use Op ... I guess not. Why on earth would they ban Op? It's one thing to avoid designing for it (like I do for NN4.5) but to outright ban it?

You think they are really mad that some webmasters who want to use Opera may leave them? I bet <0.1% of people online use Opera, they could care less if they alienate a few people if the margin for supporting such a thing isn't worth it or they feel security is an issue.

A good point.

Not much a stress just to open up another browser is it? I would hate to think that just having your browser not supported would keep people from banking with a company. ha!

I switched banking to Wells Fargo a 2 years ago for business. I was pleased with the support in moving my merchant services over to them, as well as other business solutions. It was a dream - But then I was banking with US Bank before the switch to WF.

On a final note.. does anyone have any solid information yet on why they did this?

I wonder if this is related to the WhenU lawsuit/popups...maybe WF found a way to block WhenU's ads if the user uses IE but not if they use something else. It might also have to do with Opera displaying Adsense in the browser (as I've heard).

Wow, money rules the world. Who would have thought? All joking aside, this policy is probably motivated by Wells Fargo wanting to protect themselves from obscure browsers that could result in security problems. Regression testing must be a ridiculous chore already because they're an online bank. Adding a new browser, even if it's just Opera, could create a lot of additional work and risks. Plus Opera displays contextual ads - technically it should be possible to securely run adsense and use an online bank but why open yourself up to silly risks?

I don't think the browser thing is that big a deal. What bothers me more and more with them is how few people man the phone, man the customer support when you email them too. I've gone through endless email and voicemail loops with them that made them look like a one-man operation. Continued complaints got me nowhere. But they were the first on the block to really cater to the Internet customer when most banks were afraid to.

> Quitting or changing banks just because they won't support Opera? Pretty funny stuff

I agree especially coming from folks in this forum where I'm sure none of us operate exclusively with a single web browser. I have difficulty taking the comments like those in the 2nd & 3rd posts seriously.

The topic however is very interesting. I know that I don't go out of my way to support Opera but I'm not denying those users either.

Assuming Microsoft paid off Opera, they no doubt did it because of antitrust reasons. Such an action by MSN could be viewed as a means of boosting their own near-monopoly browser. Absent some critical technical reason, MS would almost certainly have been in violation of antitrust laws.

A bank, on the other hand, has no obligation to permit equal access to all browsers. They could force you to use WF-Explorer if they wanted to... but would risk losing customers.

There's definitely some programming junk in the Wells Fargo online banking section. It identifies my Opera 5.12 set to identify itself as MSIE 5.0 as Netscape 4.76. Hmmph. At least it recognizes Firefox 1.0 as Mozilla 1.7.5, and declares it to be useable.

Their statement about why they do this browser-limiting:

For your protection, Wells Fargo does not support beta versions of browsers. Under normal circumstances, Wells Fargo will support the final version of a browser shortly after the release date. Wells Fargo regularly monitors and tests browsers to ensure the highest security standards for our customers.

For security reasons, certain versions of browsers occasionally "expire" their ability to perform sensitive transactions such as Internet banking or bill pay. In order to maintain its high degree of customer security, Wells Fargo does not allow access to accounts online using these browsers. To continue to access Wells Fargo accounts online, some customers will need to upgrade to a newer, supported version of their preferred browser.

To provide our customers the most effective and secure online access to their accounts, we are continually upgrading our online services. As we add new features and enhancements to our service, there are certain browser versions, operating systems, and/or Internet devices including WebTV, which cannot support these changes. We recommend that you use a browser and operating system that is listed on the above Supported browser chart.

When acknowledging a supported browser, they state:

Your browser meets Wells Fargo's strict security standards, which employ some of the strongest encryption available over the Internet.

(It's nice that their standards employ strong encryption. I had thought that was something a browser did.)

So their issue seems to be primarily with encryption, and not how well the browser handles style sheets.

PS: I, too, am LMAO about the MSIE security breach comment, earlier. Given a 3 month minimum patch development time when they DO discover an exploit, you better get all your banking done at one time, because it may be awhile before it's safe to go back in the water! :)

Come to think of it, isn't the recommended "fix" for most of the recent MSIE exploits to "use a different browser"? I hope Wells Fargo pays attention, and kicks IE users when this type of exploit is discovered and that recommendation is made. After all, it's not a suspected security hole ... it's verified.

I see now what's going on. I don't believe it's a bug, it looks like Opera has been specially programmed to send a Mozilla 4.78 ID just to Wells Fargo sites, and only on the first request. I reckon that's why people have been able to use Opera at Wells Fargo up to now.

In the "Information age" when all banks are competing for our buisness, trying to diferentiate, build sustainable USP's and market share, why would they want to to exclude one of their most security concious and potentailly lucrative, customer base segments?

iamlost has got the answer (nice work!), and it doesn't look to good for Opera Software. So, if I've got it right (please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this):

Opera hacked their browser to send out a user agent string declaring itself as Netscape 4.78 just to the Wells Fargo site rather than the usual one as a quick fix to a bug in an earlier version of the WF site.

Their "patch" to get round Wells Fargo's bad browser-sniffing code has now backfired as the fake user agent string is now the cause for the blocking rather than the solution.

It is Netscape 4 which is being blocked, not Opera, which would get through if it wasn't for the earlier hack.

<added>In fact I'm partly wrong: Opera is still blocked, see later message!</added>

So who's to blame? Wells Fargo certainly for some poor browser-sniffing and a narrow-minded approach to browser compatibility, but also Opera Software must take responsibility for the ad-hoc "patch" which is now causing so much trouble.

And what an amazing example of open source-ish programming at work. (Opera's not under the GPL, but they have the attitude.) Some shmoe complains, they not only incorporate a "fix", but it's so user-specific as to be completely ignorable by any other browser manufacturer.

Already a correction: Opera is still going to be banned even if the user agent "patch" problem is fixed: the problem with Opera, according to WF, is with the "wand" feature - WF consider the password-saving feature of the wand is contrary to their security goals.

So, a follow-on question: does the

autocomplete="off" attribute for form and input tags not work in Opera (I'm pretty sure it does), and if used, does it correctly disable the wand feature, thus fixing the problem WF has with the browser?

I am still in LMAO mode, I have a beer this time so the damage is less annoying.

I still think Wells Fargo is a joke.. and this recent browser sniffer confusion..... man o man.. the world with computers should have made things better, yet I seem to find myself drinking more and more and my parents calling me more and more for both reasons... 1) They cant figure the computers out ever (They call me) 2) They are worried I am drinking a bit more than ususal

Seems 1 and 2 are an endless circle due to issues just like this Well Fargo thing.