Tailed by an LEO

This is a discussion on Tailed by an LEO within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by WC145
In theory, if you are obeying the law you will be largely ignored. In practice, even if your behavior is legal ...

In theory, if you are obeying the law you will be largely ignored. In practice, even if your behavior is legal but outside the norm it'll get you noticed. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's the way it is. If you choose to walk down the street in a speedo and clown makeup it's well within your legal rights but until speedo wearing clowns are such an everyday occurence that they're ignored they'll garner all kinds of attention. Same thing with OC, the OP wasn't harassed, wasn't jacked up, his legal behavior just got him some extra attention that he, and anybody else that chooses to OC, should be expecting by now.

As far as the cops not liking the law, keeping an eye on someone armed in public has nothing to do with not liking a particular law. They have an obligation to the public at large, giving some extra scrutiny by watching the OP walk to his car after noticing his weapon is well within the scope of that obligation and not a violation of any of the OP's rights.

ETA: As I said before, anyone's choice to legally OC is fine by me. My point is that, in this day and age, for anyone to be surprised that the gun gets them noticed in a largely unarmed society is ridiculous.

"even if your behavior is legal but outside the norm it'll get you noticed" It amazes me whenever I hear people defend this type of profiling behavior. The point that many OC'iers are trying to make is that cops should not be following around individuals who are obeying the law!! That is not their job and they are not protecting anyone by following people who displaying legal behavior. AND I have to say, OC'ing is nowhere close to "walk(ing) down the street in a speedo and clown makeup"

But what you could do is simply pull out your cell phone and call the police. Tell them you are scared because there is a police car following you around very suspiciously and you are scared because you didn't do anything and you wanted to check that it was a real cop. Hahaha

I wouldn't embellish. I'd just tell them that one of their officers is acting in an intimidating and unprofessional manner. Odds are, he'll take off.

"even if your behavior is legal but outside the norm it'll get you noticed" It amazes me whenever I hear people defend this type of profiling behavior. The point that many OC'iers are trying to make is that cops should not be following around individuals who are obeying the law!! That is not their job and they are not protecting anyone by following people who displaying legal behavior. AND I have to say, OC'ing is nowhere close to "walk(ing) down the street in a speedo and clown makeup"

Oh, but open carry most certainly IS the social equivalent of the speedo and clown makeup, in some parts of the country. There are very few areas in the US where open carry is common enough that no one pays any attention to it. It always amazes me when someone decides that they are going to openly carry a deadly weapon into every social interaction during their day, which the VAST majority of the citizenry feels no need to do, and think they will not get a negative reaction.

A police officer's job is to observe for potential criminal activity. Open carry does not bestow automatic "good guy" status on anyone. If the police have a right to be where they are (public place), then they can observe you as long as they feel is necessary. You don't like it? Tough. Open carriers don't seem to be too concerned with the feelings of strangers in public who may be a bit apprehensive with people who think they need to display a weapon everywhere they go. Why should anyone care about the feelings of open carriers?

It's a bit disingenuous to whine about "living in fear," when one of the main talking points of open carriers is that they open carry to "deter" criminals. If that's not fear, I don't know what is.

Someone tells a story on an internet forum and we take it as the gospel. We immediately say that the police are harrasing a law abiding citizen just because he is excersing his 2 A rights. Because he is openly carrying a handgun he must be doing it legally. There is no way someone would do that if they were not legal to do so. Then we start with the lets mess with the cops cause they are messing with one of ours. We start with the donut jokes and then with the lets pretend we are doing something wrong when we are not so maybe we can get them to do something wrong and catch them in a trick bag. When someone brings some logical reason why the police might be taking a second look at this "law abiding citizen" we make light of it. We even say this is not the place to debate open carry when some of these reasons are made. Well everyone is not wearing speedo's and clown makeup and they will get a second and third look sometimes. And even in right to carry states everyone is not carrying so they may get a second or third look. The OP admitted he exaggerated the distance he was followed. Did he exaggerate anything else. I do not know if he did or not. Sometimes we see something or someone and it dosen't look right so we look at it a little harder and a little deeper and we find out that everything is ok but we satisfied our suspicions and proved that to ourselves. Sometimes it's the opposite and our suspicions are correct. We don't know until we delve a little deeper into the situation. That's what we do. If you have ever been in law enforcement either civilian or military, federal,state ,counrty or local you know exactly what I am talking about. If you have not been in law enforcement you may have a idea that you know what goes on with us and purhaps to an extent you do. But just like I don't pretent to know what you do and how you do it for a living even though I might have a vague idea, please know that you are in the same situation when it comes to knowing how the rest of the men and women in law enforcement do our job. You have a vague idea.

I support the 2nd Amendment. I support open and concealed carry by legal law abiding citizens. I support law enforcement. I support logic and common sense.

Oh, but open carry most certainly IS the social equivalent of the speedo and clown makeup, in some parts of the country. There are very few areas in the US where open carry is common enough that no one pays any attention to it. It always amazes me when someone decides that they are going to openly carry a deadly weapon into every social interaction during their day, which the VAST majority of the citizenry feels no need to do, and think they will not get a negative reaction.

A police officer's job is to observe for potential criminal activity. Open carry does not bestow automatic "good guy" status on anyone. If the police have a right to be where they are (public place), then they can observe you as long as they feel is necessary. You don't like it? Tough. Open carriers don't seem to be too concerned with the feelings of strangers in public who may be a bit apprehensive with people who think they need to display a weapon everywhere they go. Why should anyone care about the feelings of open carriers?

It's a bit disingenuous to whine about "living in fear," when one of the main talking points of open carriers is that they open carry to "deter" criminals. If that's not fear, I don't know what is.

Well, I have to say that I disagree with everything you wrote. Open carry SHOULD NOT automatically bestow "bad guy" status. We open carriers are attempting take away the stereotype that guns = bad! That is very much the point! Quite the opposite of your understanding.. we care very much about the peoples feelings. So much so that we are willing to express our rights to maintain the rights of the people! By showing good manners and politeness, the guns = bad garbage that the media has pushed into the hearts and minds of the public will disappear.

When I was about 18 an officer seemed to be following me, and I turned off .... so did he, so I turned again, so did he , so I turned again ... so did he. I had just driven around the block, and kept doing it. He lit up his lights on the 4th time around and I pulled over. He asked "what are you doing ? "..... and I told him.... "I was wondering how many times I could get you to drive around the block behind me".

That's when he said, "OK son, get out of the car.... "..... LMAO. He tried the tough guy act, but it was rather funny really.....

"even if your behavior is legal but outside the norm it'll get you noticed" It amazes me whenever I hear people defend this type of profiling behavior. The point that many OC'iers are trying to make is that cops should not be following around individuals who are obeying the law!! That is not their job and they are not protecting anyone by following people who displaying legal behavior. AND I have to say, OC'ing is nowhere close to "walk(ing) down the street in a speedo and clown makeup"

Originally Posted by kootsoup

Well, I have to say that I disagree with everything you wrote. Open carry SHOULD NOT automatically bestow "bad guy" status. We open carriers are attempting take away the stereotype that guns = bad! That is very much the point! Quite the opposite of your understanding.. we care very much about the peoples feelings. So much so that we are willing to express our rights to maintain the rights of the people! By showing good manners and politeness, the guns = bad garbage that the media has pushed into the hearts and minds of the public will disappear.

Soooo... if I read you correctly, open carry is just a statement, an opportunity to exercise your right and to educate and ignorant public. Or, if I may, an opportunity to wear a speedo and clown makeup in public in order to make a point, NOT just because you're a clown that's really comfortable with himself and wears that outfit everyday. To that I call BS. Carrying a gun should not be a statement. If you feel the need to carry for your personal protection and open carry is your only or chosen option, great. Strap it on and hit the streets, be confident and comfortable with the steps you've taken to protect yourself and your loved ones. On the other hand, if you're carrying to make a point and "educate" the public at large, you're doing everyone else that carries a disservice. You may as well be wearing a shirt emblazoned with "I'm John Q. Public and I have a GUN, SEE IT... IT'S RIGHT HERE (arrow pointing at your hip).
Don't strap on a piece to create a situation or a particular "atmosphere", you're not helping. If you're going to do it, then go about it like the OP, gun on your hip, situation normal, going about your business. Will it garner attention? Of course it will, but at least you're being honest and sincere about your motives. That will bring you more respect and understanding than flaunting your right like a flag on a pole shouting "LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!".

“Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

I fully accept, and expect, the fact that OCing will, in most situations, grant me 2nd, 3rd, and 4th looks in todays society. Even fellow OCers have given me the twice over, "hmm, whatcha got there? *head nod... head nod*

I am perfectly okay with the fact that the LEOs decided to check me out. In fact, I am pleased that they were observant enough to do so. I doubt the BGs would slip by those two.

The LEOs did not "tread on me"... my rights were not violated in any way... I'm really not that concerned about it... but the manner in which they followed me was................... pretty darn funny to think about only moments later.

Soooo... if I read you correctly, open carry is just a statement, an opportunity to exercise your right and to educate and ignorant public. Or, if I may, an opportunity to wear a speedo and clown makeup in public in order to make a point, NOT just because you're a clown that's really comfortable with himself and wears that outfit everyday. To that I call BS.

“Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”