How to get rid of persistent virus programs.

Long query about dealing with Pesky trojans and spyware
=====================================================

I have noticed that some virus or spyware programs stay in memory and
the removal programs state that the process can't be halted or the file
can't be deleted. They even stay that way when the removal programs are
run in safe mode

What kind of processes are these, and why can't they be deleted?

Do some of them run as services, and if so how can they be tracked down
from the start up programs and services and eliminated?

I know of utilities such as those available from sysinternals.com which
can list running processes etc. Is there a way of finding out those
which are legal and those which are run by these trojans, the track
down the processes in the start up groups which activate them and
delete them altogether?

At least something like before and after lists, or a list of genuine or
perhaps digitally signed images would help.

Any ideas or guidance in this area?

Shenan Stanley

07-10-2005, 02:41 AM

mydejamail wrote:
> Long query about dealing with Pesky trojans and spyware
> =====================================================
>
> I have noticed that some virus or spyware programs stay in memory and
> the removal programs state that the process can't be halted or the
> file can't be deleted. They even stay that way when the removal
> programs are run in safe mode
>
> What kind of processes are these, and why can't they be deleted?
>
> Do some of them run as services, and if so how can they be tracked
> down from the start up programs and services and eliminated?
>
> I know of utilities such as those available from sysinternals.com
> which can list running processes etc. Is there a way of finding out
> those which are legal and those which are run by these trojans, the
> track down the processes in the start up groups which activate them
> and delete them altogether?
>
> At least something like before and after lists, or a list of genuine
> or perhaps digitally signed images would help.
>
> Any ideas or guidance in this area?

Long answer about dealing with Pesky trojans and spyware
=====================================================

See Tip 13 about the processes.
See the rest on cleaning your PC(s)...

Microsoft has these suggestions for Protecting your computer from the
various things that could happen to you/it:

Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/

Although those tips are fantastic, there are many things you should
know above and beyond what is there. Below I have detailed
out many steps that can not only help you clean-up a problem PC but
keep it clean ,secure and running at its top performance mark.

I know this text can seem intimidating - it is quite long and a lot
to take in for a novice - but I assure you that one trip through this
list and you will understand your computer and the options available
to you for protecting your data much better - and that the next time
you review these steps, the time it takes will be greatly reduced.

Let's take the cleanup of your computer step-by-step. Yes, it will take
up some of your time - but consider what you use your computer
for and how much you would dislike it if all of your stuff on your
computer went away because you did not "feel like" performing some
simple maintenance tasks - think of it like taking out your garbage,
collecting and sorting your postal mail, paying your bills on time,
etc.

I'll mainly work around Windows XP, as that is what the bulk of this
document is about; however, here is a place for you poor souls still
stuck in Windows 98/ME where you can get information on maintaining
your system:

Now, let's go through some maintenance first that should only have to be
done once (mostly):

Tip (1):
Locate all of the software you have installed on your computer.
(the installation media - CDs, downloaded files, etc)
Collect these CDs and files together in a central and safe
place along with their CD keys and such. Make backups of these
installation media sets using your favorite copying method (CD/DVD Burner
and application, Disk copier, etc.) You'll be glad to know that if you
have a CD/DVD burner, you may be able to use a free application to make a
duplicate copy of your CDs. One such application is ISORecorder:

Another Option would be to search the web with Pricewatch.com or
Dealsites.net and find deals on Products like Ahead Nero and/or Roxio.

Tip (2):
Empty your Temporary Internet Files and shrink the size it stores to a
size between 128MB and 512MB..

- Open ONE copy of Internet Explorer.
- Select TOOLS -> Internet Options.
- Under the General tab in the "Temporary Internet Files" section, do the
following:
- Click on "Delete Cookies" (click OK)
- Click on "Settings" and change the "Amount of disk space to use:" to
something between 128MB and 512MB. (Betting it is MUCH larger right
now.)
- Click OK.
- Click on "Delete Files" and select to "Delete all offline contents"
(the checkbox) and click OK. (If you had a LOT, this could take 2-10
minutes or more.)
- Once it is done, click OK, close Internet Explorer, re-open Internet
Explorer.

Tip (3):
If things are running a bit sluggish and/or you have an older system
(1.5GHz or less and 256MB RAM or less) then you may want to look into
tweaking the performance by turning off some of the 'resource hogging'
Windows XP "prettifications". The fastest method is:

Control Panel --> System --> Advanced tab --> Performance section,
Settings button. Then choose "adjust for best performance" and you
now have a Windows 2000/98 look which turned off most of the annoying
"prettifications" in one swift action. You can play with the last
three checkboxes to get more of an XP look without many of the
other annoyances. You could also grab and install/use one
(or more) of the Microsoft Powertoys - TweakUI in particular:

Tip (4):
Understanding what a good password might be is vital to your
personal and system security. You may think you do not need to password
your home computer, as you may have it in a locked area (your home) where
no one else has access to it. Remember, however, you aren't always
"in that locked area" when using your computer online - meaning you likely
have usernames and passwords associated with web sites and the likes that
you would prefer other people do not discover/use. This is why you should
understand and utilize good passwords.

Good passwords are those that meet these general rules
(mileage may vary):

Passwords should contain at least six characters, and the character
string should contain at least three of these four character types:
- uppercase letters
- lowercase letters
- numerals
- nonalphanumeric characters (e.g., *, %, &, !, :)

Passwords should not contain your name/username.
Passwords should be unique to you and easy to remember.

One method many people are using today is to make up a phrase that
describes a point in their life and then turning that phrase into their
password by using only certain letters out of each word in that phrase.
It's much better than using your birthday month/year or your anniversary
in a pure sense. For example, let's say my phrase is:
'Moved to new home in 2004'
I could come up with this password from that:
'Mv2n3whmN04'

The password tip is in the one time section, but I highly
recommend you periodically change your passwords. The suggested time
varies, but I will throw out a 'once in every 3 to 6 months for
every account you have.'

Tip (5):
This tip is also 'questionable' in the one time section; however -
if properly setup - this one can be pretty well ignored for most people
after the initial 'fiddle-with' time.

Why you should use a computer firewall..
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/viruses/fwbenefits.mspx

You should, in some way, use a firewall. Hardware (like a nice
Cable Modem/DSL router) or software is up to you. Many use both of
these. The simplest one to use is the hardware one, as most people
don't do anything that they will need to configure their NAT device
for and those who do certainly will not mind fiddling with the equipment
to make things work for them. Next in the line of simplicity would
have to be the built-in Windows Firewall of Windows XP. In SP2 it
is turned on by default. It is not difficult to turn on in any
case, however:

The trouble with the Windows Firewall is that it only keeps things
out. For most people who maintain their system in other ways, this is
MORE than sufficient. However, you may feel otherwise. If you want to
know when one of your applications is trying to obtain access to the
outside world so you can stop it, then you will have to install a
third-party application and configure/maintain it. I have compiled a
list with links of some of the better known/free firewalls you can choose
from:

You should find the right firewall for your situation in that
list and set it up.

Every firewall WILL require some maintenance. Essentially checking for
patches or upgrades (this goes for hardware and software solutions) is
the extent of this maintenance - you may also have to configure your
firewall to allow some traffic depending on your needs.

** Don't stack the software firewalls! Running more than one software
firewall will not make you safer - it would possibly negate some
protection you gleamed from one or the other firewall you run.

Now that you have some of the more basic things down..
Let's go through some of the steps you should take periodically to
maintain a healthy and stable windows computer. If you have not
done some of these things in the past, they may seem tedious - however,
they will become routine and some can even be automatically scheduled.

Tip (6):
The system restore feature is a new one - first appearing in Windows
ME and then sticking around for Windows XP. It is a useful feature
if you keep it maintained and use it to your advantage. Remember that
the system restore pretty much tells you in the name what it protects
which is 'system' files. Your documents, your pictures, your stuff is
NOT system files - so you should also look into some backup solution.

I have seen the automatic system restore go wrong too many times not
to suggest the following.. Whenever you think about it (after doing a
once-over on your machine once a month or so would be optimal) - clear
out your System Restore and create a manual restoration point.

'Why?'

Too many times have I seen the system restore files go corrupt or get
a virus in them, meaning you could not or did not want to restore from
them. By clearing it out periodically you help prevent any corruption
from happening and you make sure you have at least one good "snapshot".
(*This, of course, will erase any previous restore point you have.*)

- Turn off System Restore.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310405
- Reboot the Computer.
- Review the first bullet to turn on System Restore
- Make a Manual Restoration Point.
http://snipurl.com/68nx

That covers your system files, but doesn't do anything for the files
that you are REALLY worried about - yours! For that you need to look
into backups. You can either manually copy your important files, folders,
documents, spreadsheets, emails, contacts, pictures, drawings and so on
to an external location (CD/DVD - any disk of some sort, etc) or you can
use the backup tool that comes with Windows XP:

How To Use Backup to Back Up Files and Folders on Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308422

Yes - you still need some sort of external media to store the results
on, but you could schedule the backup to occur when you are not around,
then burn the resultant data onto CD or DVD or something when you are
(while you do other things!)

A lot of people have wondered about how to completely backup their system
so that they would not have to go through the trouble of a reinstall..
I'm going to voice my opinion here and say that it would be worthless to
do for MOST people. Unless you plan on periodically updating the image
backup of your system (remaking it) - then by the time you use it
(something goes wrong) - it will be so outdated as to be more trouble than
performing a full install of the operating system and all applications.

Having said my part against it, you can clone/backup your hard drive
completely using many methods - by far the simplest are using disk cloning
applications:

Tip (7):
You should sometimes look through the list of applications that are
installed on your computer. The list may surprise you. There are more
than likely things in there you know you never use - so why have them
there? There may even be things you know you did *not* install and
certainly do not use (maybe don't WANT to use.)

This web site should help you get started at looking through this list:

How to Uninstall Programs
http://snipurl.com/8v6b

A word of warning - Do NOT uninstall anything you think you MIGHT need
in the future unless you have completed Tip (1) and have the installation
media and proper keys for use backed up somewhere safe!

Tip (8):
Patches and Updates!

This one cannot be stressed enough. It is SO simple, yet so neglected
by many people. It is especially simple for the critical Windows patches!
Microsoft put in an AUTOMATED feature for you to utilize so that you do
NOT have to worry yourself about the patching of the Operating System:

How to configure and use Automatic Updates in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525

However, not everyone wants to be a slave to automation, and that is
fine. Admittedly, I prefer this method on some of my more critical
systems.

Windows Update
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/

Go there and scan your machine for updates. Always get the critical ones
as you see them. Write down the KB###### or Q###### you see when
selecting the updates and if you have trouble over the next few days,
go into your control panel (Add/Remove Programs), insure that the
'Show Updates' checkbox is checked and match up the latest numbers you
downloaded recently (since you started noticing an issue) and uninstall
them. If there was more than one (usually is), uninstall them one by one
with a few hours of use in between, to see if the problem returns.
Yes - the process is not perfect (updating) and can cause trouble like I
mentioned - but as you can see, the solution isn't that bad - and is
MUCH better than the alternatives.

Windows is not the only product you likely have on your PC. The
manufacturers of the other products usually have updates. New versions
of almost everything come out all the time - some are free, some are pay
and some you can only download if you are registered - but it is best
to check. Just go to their web pages and look under their support and
download sections. For example, for Microsoft Office you should visit:

You also have hardware on your machine that requires drivers to interface
with the operating system. You have a video card that allows you to see on
your screen, a sound card that allows you to hear your PCs sound output and
so on. Visit those manufacturer web sites for the latest downloadable
drivers for your hardware/operating system. Always get the manufacturers'
hardware driver over any Microsoft offers. On the Windows Update site I
mentioned earlier, I suggest NOT getting their hardware drivers - no matter
how tempting.

How do you know what hardware you have in your computer? Break out the
invoice or if it is up and working now - take inventory:

Once you know what you have, what next? Go get the latest driver for your
hardware/OS from the manufacturer's web page. For example, let's say you
have an NVidia chipset video card or ATI video card, perhaps a Creative
Labs sound card or C-Media chipset sound card...

Then install these drivers. Updated drivers are usually more stable and
may provide extra benefits/features that you really wished you had before.

As for Service Pack 2 (SP2) for Windows XP, Microsoft has made this
particular patch available in a number of ways. First, there is the
Windows Update web page above. Then there is a direct download site
and finally, you can order the FREE CD from Microsoft.

If all else fails - grab the full download above and try to use that.
In this case - consider yourself a 'IT professional or developer'.

Tip (9):
What about the dreaded word in the computer world, VIRUS?

Well, there are many products to choose from that will help you prevent
infections from these horrid little applications. Many are FREE to the
home user and which you choose is a matter of taste, really. Many people
have emotional attachments or performance issues with one or another
AntiVirus software. Try some out, read reviews and decide for yourself
which you like more:

Most of them have automatic update capabilities. You will have to
look into the features of the one you choose. Whatever one you finally
settle with - be SURE to keep it updated (I recommend at least daily) and
perform a full scan periodically (yes, most protect you actively, but a
full scan once a month at 4AM probably won't bother you.)

Tip (10):
The most rampant infestation at the current time concerns SPYWARE/ADWARE.
You need to eliminate it from your machine.

There is no one software that cleans and immunizes you against
everything. Antivirus software - you only needed one. Firewall, you
only needed one. AntiSpyware - you will need several. I have a list and
I recommend you use at least the first five.

First - make sure you have NOT installed "Rogue AntiSpyware". There are
people out there who created AntiSpyware products that actually install
spyware of their own! You need to avoid these:

Sometimes you need to install the application and reboot into SAFE MODE in
order to thoroughly clean your computer. Many applications also have
(or are) immunization applications. Spybot Search and Destroy and
SpywareBlaster are two that currently do the best job at passively
protecting your system from malware. None of these programs (in these
editions) run in the background unless you TELL them to. The space they
take up and how easy they are to use greatly makes up for any inconvenience
you may be feeling.

Please notice that Windows XP SP2 does help stop popups as well.

Another option is to use an alternative Web browser. I suggest
'Mozilla Firefox', as it has some great features and is very easy to use:

Mozilla Firefox
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

So your machine is pretty clean and up to date now. If you use the sections
above as a guide, it should stay that way as well! There are still a few
more things you can do to keep your machine running in top shape.

Tip (11):
You should periodically check your hard drive(s) for errors and defragment
them. Only defragment after you have cleaned up your machine of
outside parasites and never defragment as a solution to a quirkiness in
your system. It may help speed up your system, but it should be clean
before you do this. Do these things IN ORDER...

How to use Disk Cleanup
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310312

How to scan your disks for errors
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265

I would personally perform the above steps at least once every three months.
For most people this should be sufficient, but if the difference you notice
afterwards is greater than you think it should be, lessen the time in
between its schedule.. If the difference you notice is negligible, you can
increase the time.

Tip (12):
SPAM! JUNK MAIL!
This one can get annoying, just like the rest. You get 50 emails in one
sitting and 2 of them you wanted. NICE! (Not.) What can you do? Well,
although there are services out there to help you, some email
servers/services that actually do lower your spam with features built into
their servers - I still like the methods that let you be the end-decision
maker on what is spam and what is not. I have two products to suggest to
you, look at them and see if either of them suite your needs. Again, if
they don't, Google is free and available for your perusal.

SpamBayes (Free!)
http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/

Spamihilator (Free!)
http://www.spamihilator.com/

As I said, those are not your only options, but are reliable ones I have
seen function for hundreds+ people.

Tip (13):
ADVANCED TIP! Only do this once you are comfortable under the hood of your
computer!

There are lots of services on your PC that are probably turned on by default
you don't use. Why have them on? Check out these web pages to see what all
of the services you might find on your computer are and set them according
to your personal needs. Be CAREFUL what you set to manual, and take heed
and write down as you change things! Also, don't expect a large performance
increase or anything - especially on today's 2+ GHz machines, however - I
look at each service you set to manual as one less service you have to worry
about someone exploiting.

There are also applications that AREN'T services that startup when you start
up the computer/logon. One of the better description on how to handle these
I have found here:

Startups
http://www.pacs-portal.co.uk/startup_content.php

If you follow the advice laid out above (and do some of your own research as
well, so you understand what you are doing) - your computer will stay fairly
stable and secure and you will have a more trouble-free system.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Alan Smith

07-10-2005, 02:41 AM

<mydejamail@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1120741387.182346.289270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Long query about dealing with Pesky trojans and spyware
> =====================================================
>
> I have noticed that some virus or spyware programs stay in memory and
> the removal programs state that the process can't be halted or the file
> can't be deleted. They even stay that way when the removal programs are
> run in safe mode
>
> What kind of processes are these, and why can't they be deleted?
>
> Do some of them run as services, and if so how can they be tracked down
> from the start up programs and services and eliminated?
>
> I know of utilities such as those available from sysinternals.com which
> can list running processes etc. Is there a way of finding out those
> which are legal and those which are run by these trojans, the track
> down the processes in the start up groups which activate them and
> delete them altogether?
>
> At least something like before and after lists, or a list of genuine or
> perhaps digitally signed images would help.
>
> Any ideas or guidance in this area?
>

Don't use pirated software, visit porn sites and be careful which
attachments you open. Better yet don't use the internet.

Beyond that use software to protect your computer and update regularly. You
havent even mentioned if you use any software to protect your machine- just
you 'know of utilities'- knowing about things doesn't protect you.

To get rid of those you have identify the name of it then specific advice
for removal may be needed- the only universal cure is a reformat and
reinstall.

BC

07-10-2005, 02:42 AM

At the very least, you need to do your antivirus
and antispyware scans in safe mode, and to
scan every file, and stop using IE for casual
web browsing.

Identifying which individual processes are legit
and which aren't is very tricky. I can sort of
do it out of instinct and experience, but there
is no good easy way to the average user to
figure what's what, although it would be a
relatively trivial feature to add by Microsoft.

A better method would be to look at the
programs and services running at startup --
that's where I find most but not all bugs,
usually in the "Run" sections of the registry.
This page has a nice guide for optimizing
your PC that also includes how to disable
autorunning progams:
http://www.fixyourwindows.com/optimizewindowsstartup.htm

HijackThis and JV16 are also very handy
for looking up autostarting programs.

Microsoft AntiSpyware Beta surprisingly
doesn't suck, although it will expire at the
of the month. It's main advantage is that
it's realtime and free. Ad-Aware (1.06) and
Spybot Search and Destroy (1.4) are still
the gold standards -- you can get them
both from Download.com

Here's a useful trick with Spybot: you can
have it update itself, and then scan for and
autoclean bugs with a single mouseclick by
first creating a shortcut to the main Spybot
command -- spybotsd.exe -- and then editing
the shortcut to add these optional parameters
after it:

/autoupdate /autocheck /autofix /autoclose

You may also add /onlyspyware to modify /autofix
to leave usage tracks -- cookies -- alone.

One little trick of my own that's come in handy
for especially slick and recurring viruses and
spyware is to first identify the name of the
file(s) reappearing and starting up and then
manually delete them (you usually have to be
in Safe mode to do this), and then substituting
a renamed copy of xcopy.exe for the bug file.

How this works is that, say, you have a virus
called scruyu.exe that keeps reappearing in
your Windows folder on the next reboot after
you get rid of it with your antivirus program
or whatever. You then restart in safe mode
and manually delete the bug (you may have to
open a DOS-mode window to do this). Finally
copy xcopy.exe to a temporary location like
your desktop and then rename it to the name of
the bug, in this case, scruyu.exe. Then move it
to where the where the bug keeps reappearing,
in this case the main Windows folder. Right-
click on the file and make it read-only for
good measure. This method will help block a
number of recurring bugs.

And I can't emphasize enough to avoid using
IE as much as you can. Firefox or Opera
should be your default browser and consider
replacing Outlook Express and/or Outlook with
something like Thunderbird or Ximian Evolution.

Hope this helps.

-BC

mydejamail@yahoo.co.uk

07-10-2005, 02:42 AM

Actually Firefox is my main browser, and I really find spyware on my
computer as I don't download any stuff on my computer, and I run
anti-virus and spyware removers regularly.

I get calls to fix spyware problems regularly, and it is annoying not
be able to fix them with the available tools in one go, even in both
safe and normal mode.

Want I really want is something which can clear these programs if run
once in normal mode, once in safe mode and once is DOS mode.

Something that can work from a disk like Barts PE Disk is what I am
looking for.

A trojan remover based on something like Windows Scripting Host, that
can be easily updated, and run in DOS mode or from Barts PE would be
great.

A community based toolkit that end users could update regularlyfor
dealing with new spyware would be the best.

Is there something like that out there.

mydejamail@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> Long query about dealing with Pesky trojans and spyware
> =====================================================
>
> I have noticed that some virus or spyware programs stay in memory and
> the removal programs state that the process can't be halted or the file
> can't be deleted. They even stay that way when the removal programs are
> run in safe mode
>
> What kind of processes are these, and why can't they be deleted?
>
> Do some of them run as services, and if so how can they be tracked down
> from the start up programs and services and eliminated?
>
> I know of utilities such as those available from sysinternals.com which
> can list running processes etc. Is there a way of finding out those
> which are legal and those which are run by these trojans, the track
> down the processes in the start up groups which activate them and
> delete them altogether?
>
> At least something like before and after lists, or a list of genuine or
> perhaps digitally signed images would help.
>
> Any ideas or guidance in this area?

Shenan Stanley

07-10-2005, 02:42 AM

mydejamail wrote:
> Actually Firefox is my main browser, and I really find spyware on my
> computer as I don't download any stuff on my computer, and I run
> anti-virus and spyware removers regularly.
>
> I get calls to fix spyware problems regularly, and it is annoying not
> be able to fix them with the available tools in one go, even in both
> safe and normal mode.
>
> Want I really want is something which can clear these programs if run
> once in normal mode, once in safe mode and once is DOS mode.
>
> Something that can work from a disk like Barts PE Disk is what I am
> looking for.
>
> A trojan remover based on something like Windows Scripting Host, that
> can be easily updated, and run in DOS mode or from Barts PE would be
> great.
>
> A community based toolkit that end users could update regularlyfor
> dealing with new spyware would be the best.
>
> Is there something like that out there.

No. Not one application or even a combination.
But many applications (Like Spybot) can run from BartPE.

I clean dozens of machines in any given month and rarely do they come back
for recleaning and rarely does the cleaning regime fail to cleanse the rogue
programs from the system. However, there are cases where it is more
economical and just all-in-all simpler/more logical to ghost the machine,
format and reinstall from my unattended system, protect it from the
beginning and copy the stuff from the ghost image that is needed.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

BC

07-10-2005, 02:43 AM

I've been experimenting with 200GB USB
drives and various combos of imaging and
backup software. Having Windows XP
becoming the dominant OS has come with a
high cost in terms of maintenance and
troubleshooting (I do a lot of retrofits for
people really, really unhappy with XP) The
physical size of it and the sheer number of
files that build up have proven to be a
reliable headache in getting anything fixed
in a hurry -- if you have some older 2 GHz
P4 with 200,000+ files on its hard drive, you
need to bring a book or plan your lunch
around any troubleshooting/bug cleaning
session.

Having FAT32 instead of NTFS helps quite
a bit -- you boot off a floppy and you have
full low level access to the system and use
something like DOS scanner in F-Prot to
do a thorough file scan. With NTFS, I've had
mixed results with DOS NTFS drivers, with
the best results coming with file recovery
from corrupt XP/2K systems.

If you are pretty good at building MS-Client
network boot disks, you can attach a USB
hard drive to any handy PC, share it out,
put your favorite imaging program on it,
and then log into it from the network boot
disks to back up (installing something like
Acronis TrueImage on each of the
workstations may could a good alternative.)

Once you have your images, you'll only
have to periodically update them in the
case of major software updates. Since
many viruses are so stealthy, you really
don't even want to have regular image
updates since that would risk corruption.

You then combine this with regular updates
of the user files, and you have in place a
reasonably quick recovery system you
can use in place of a possibly much more
time consuming cleanup.

The BartPE disk is on my list of things to
play around with.

Still, though, it's the year 2005 -- PC's at
this point should be much more like Sony
Playstations or Tivo's: turn them on, do
your stuff, turn them off, and without all of
this under-the-hood, tweaking, updating,
and cleaning up crap. I'm shocked at how
many lawyers are turning into HiJackThis-
savvy geeks just to keep their PC's running.
In some ways, that's so stupid....

-BC

Shenan Stanley

07-10-2005, 02:43 AM

BC wrote:
> Still, though, it's the year 2005 -- PC's at
> this point should be much more like Sony
> Playstations or Tivo's: turn them on, do
> your stuff, turn them off, and without all of
> this under-the-hood, tweaking, updating,
> and cleaning up crap. I'm shocked at how
> many lawyers are turning into HiJackThis-
> savvy geeks just to keep their PC's running.
> In some ways, that's so stupid....

I disagree..
The PC should not become a "light-bulb" device.

I think - just like everything else - people should learn to maintain their
own things or not use them.
Sorry - I think people are too dependent on things they don't understand
anyway - more mindless morons - I don't need. If they are intelligent
enough to become doctors/lawyers/etc - then they can squeeze in the time it
takes to learn about computer maintenance, etc. What a waste of a human
mind to ONLY be a good lawyer.

You can easily turn the device into a toaster - just set it up so that
everytime it is turned on it is back to the way it was when you first got
it. It won't work out 75% of the time for the same reason you still don't
have your atari 2600, but you could do it.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html