Quote:nothing hacks people off faster than getting the impression that they are being "sold" to.

With regards to MattJ's post, this is what I meant when I said not to give much information.

If you are sitting there on the phone telling the person everything there is to know about your school. Then you risk the chance of appearing as that used car salesman. For this reason, I would rather tell them less over the phone and tell them more in person and have them sit in on or try out a class so that they can form their own opinions about the studio; rather than tell them what I think they want to hear, I would much rather have them experience things for themselves.

I hope that this clears up the misconception about my comment. If not, feel free to question it more thoroughly .

EDIT: No disrespect intended MattJ, but please, if you are going to quote me in the future with such a statement that might look to be very deceitful when taken out of context, please make sure to include the entire context of the quote. I believe that the following sentences of that quote more than justify the statement and have no connection to Mcdojo's as you said.

After all, I said try to give them as little information about cost while talking over the phone, I never said to give them as little information as possible when talking in person. Which do you think is a better and more formal setting to do your business-over the phone? Or in person? I much prefer to see the person's face with whom I am speaking when talking anything business related...but I guess that's just me?

If that is the explination then Ok---problem is how is the consumer to know if they are talking to someone that is trying not to give them to much info instead of someone that just wants them to come in for the "hard sell" face to face?

Same goes for having to stress beinging "honest and sincere"--chances are if you have to TELL PEOPLE to be "honest and sincre" their motivations might differ from the instuctions.Its like having to tell people NOT to steal--if you have to keep telling them to be "sincere and honest" your essnetially tellig them to FAKE being "sincere and honest."

When you say:

"Do everything you can to build interest by showing interest in them."

Sure that argueably a good thing---thing is its ALSO a sales tactic--how is one to tell the difference?The seller wants to gain as much info as possible so as to angle their product to whatever THEY preceive as YOUR needs.Your only "showing interest" because you want my money.

(of course should you REALLY share my deep love of say fly fishing your going to available for long discussions about it AFTER I sign up--right????? )

"Let the phone ring a bit before you answer"

Sales tactics to give whomever is answering some control.

"regarding the cost question--if they are persistent about asking about it, then you usually haven't set the conversation up correctly."

Sales tactic..........with some really negative implications as far as I'm concerned.This is the mark of someone that spends A LOT of time on their conversion ratio's--ie a professional "salesmen" or "salesmanager"

I tend to agree that its better to talk in person---but if you have to explain your reasoning to folks on line--then it stands to reason that people might be getting/might get the wrong idea elsewhere.

How is one to seperate all of those suggestions from being "sold?"

Edited by cxt (02/19/0804:45 PM)

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I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.

Yeah I know I haven't gotten onto the other points of running a business, thats because I can handle those. I can handle customer service and what I need to set up. It was the phone conversations that always killed me when my instructor and I practiced setting up a business

In my earlier jobs I worked as customer service, and right now I am teaching kids classes, and sometimes adult classes too. I'm also teaching 7 students of my own (private lessons).

See, I'm alright there but I'm glad you brought that up... A business isn't just to benefit you and you alone (big time) otherwise I would not consider doing this

I understand where you and MattJ are coming from, but the thing is, a martial arts studio is still a business! You can't help the person if they don't pay the bill, at least, not in today's world, because then, how will you pay your instructors? Or how will you afford rent?

It really boils down to the fact that you have a product, and you are trying to sell it. So why is it bad to use sales techniques in the process? If you really want to help the person, then you have to do whatever you can to honestly sell your product.

The problem is that sometimes people will get lost in their sales pitch and forget to be sincere, forget their original goal which was to help their potential student to build a better life through studying the martial arts. For this reason, I stressed the point of being sincere.

Sincerity is never a bad thing. Even if you may not believe it at first, you may be able to become a more honest and sincere person by putting on the face of that person. Now, you might see this as being dishonest, but it is a simple fact of human psychology. Why do you think a businessman wears a suit and not a t-shirt and jeans? The reason is not only so that he looks to be more professional to others, but also so that he feels to be a more professional person himself.

We, as humans, for the most part, cannot assume a new role instantaneously and act it out without it being or feeling "fake" at first. But by donning this new mask, we will eventually feel comfortable wearing this new position and it will eventually become our actual face.

These are just some basics of human psychology. By telling yourself to be sincere, you will be sincere.

Once again, I hope that this clears up the misconception of my previous posts...or am I just digging myself deeper? hehehhe

If one is seriously interested in helping others---there are many non-profit avenues open---teaching free classes for example at the Y or at various schools.Of course that is assuming that your being "sincere" when you state that helping other is THE goal.

"sometimes people will get lost in their sales pitch and forget to be sincere."

"forget to be sincere"

Need I say more?

BTW a business person wears a suit and tie when and where the situation requries---a professional is a professional rergardless of what they are wearing---"sincere and honest" is not a mask you wear until the deal is inked---you either are or you are not.Thinking the general public is not capable of feeling the difference is one reason why so many business go belly up so fast.

"their original goal which was to help the potential student bulid a better life thu studying the martial arts."

Is THAT what the "goal" is?

Huh, so in your view--what your offering is not really martial arts training but the abilty to help one "build a better life????"Are you qualified/licensed as either an psychotheripist or educator?Who are you to judge a paying customer as in need of YOUR help to "build a better life?"

By what authority are you wishing to be a "stand in" for my parents??"I'm here to train--not to have the hired help judge me as being in need of their help to have a better life--as THEY define it.Much less suffer the hubris of the hired help presuming to judge ME in need of THEIR intervention.

Does the guy that fixes your car, mows your grass, paints your house, works the customer service desk when you call for help with your computer etc offer to help YOU--- "build a better life????????"And how would any resonable person react if they were so arrogant as to make that assumption.

How presumptious is that as an attitude-----to judge paying cusotmers as being in need of your services to "build a better life" simply because they call you on the phone/walk thu your door to inquire about martial arts classes.

That kind of attitude is a serious red flag...IMO.

Edited by cxt (02/19/0806:00 PM)

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I did battle with ignorance today.......and ignorance won.
Huey.

I guess I can't win. Whatever I say will be dissected by you, so either way I lose. You contradict yourself here. You say that if I wanted to help people, then I would go and teach for free at the YMCA, etc. Well, by saying that, you assume that people can be helped from the martial arts. Well, tell me this, do the martial arts not make your life better? If not, then why do you study them? Do you not enjoy studying the martial arts? Is it so far of a stretch to say that they make your life better?

By your comment that a professional is a professional with or without the suit, this is true--but not at first. Look at the example of the martial artist. We aren't a black belt until we have a black belt. But once we have the black belt, then we are a black belt even when we aren't wearing the belt. But does this make us a black belt before we earn the belt? No. Until we earn our black belt, we must learn what it is to be a black belt. No one is born a black belt, and by that token they must learn how to be and what it is to be a black belt. This is similar to how I said that sincerity might not come naturally to all people, but does this mean that just because you aren't sincere in the beginning that you cannot learn how to be sincere?

But I guess that everything is a "sales tactic" as you say, so what does it matter? What do you want me to say? Enough of this "Red flag" stuff. Just because something is different, or doesn't go along with your own ideology doesn't make it a "red flag". Maybe you should focus less on what you see are "red flags" in my posts and look more at what is positive...need I say more?

...My intention here is not to get into a flame war. I was just trying to help someone here with my own opinion of how to address his problem. That's all.

EDIT: And I never meant to make it seem like I was presuming that that potential student had a bad life. Even if you think your life is great already, then it can be even better still. Things can always get better, just as they can always get worse. There is never complete and utter perfection in anything.

Furthermore, to compare a martial arts instructor to a gardener or car mechanic is ridiculous. No of course they have no right to offer to make my life better. But it is a martial arts instructor's job as a teacher to teach not only the physical side of the martial arts, to teach self-defense, etc, but to also teach mental training. It is their job as a teacher to do such a thing and offer such help.

Quote:Its a strange topic title, I know, but I'm highly considering opening a school of my own soon and I find I have alot of trouble with this. My own instructor has been teaching me all the points on how to do it (i.e. ask all the questions, get them to come in etc.) and we'll play the game where he calls me and tries to throw me off so I know how to deal with difficult people, but I would like to be able to practice this on my own as well.

My question is to all the instructors and business owners out there, how do you do it? When they ask the cost question, how do you turn that around into "come in and see if its for you" and what to do if they are persistent about it. As well as anything else a person usually asks.

Advice, pointers, any kind of help is greatly appreciated especially considering that I am a female in the male dominated business aspect of martial arts. To open this kung fu school I've got to have stuff.

I have the perfect solution for you: get a phone with an answering machine, practice the greeting and mention for them to come by to watch a class and ask questions, etc give the hours that the dojo is open and the hours of class, website address and whatnot. after recording the message you are happy with, put the phone on first ring answer mode, then mute the ringer.

that way you don't have to worry about answering the phone and can concentrate on the real first reason you are there in the first place: to teach and train. not run a business.

Quote:Its a strange topic title, I know, but I'm highly considering opening a school of my own soon and I find I have alot of trouble with this. My own instructor has been teaching me all the points on how to do it (i.e. ask all the questions, get them to come in etc.) and we'll play the game where he calls me and tries to throw me off so I know how to deal with difficult people, but I would like to be able to practice this on my own as well.

My question is to all the instructors and business owners out there, how do you do it? When they ask the cost question, how do you turn that around into "come in and see if its for you" and what to do if they are persistent about it. As well as anything else a person usually asks.

Advice, pointers, any kind of help is greatly appreciated especially considering that I am a female in the male dominated business aspect of martial arts. To open this kung fu school I've got to have stuff.

I have the perfect solution for you: get a phone with an answering machine, practice the greeting and mention for them to come by to watch a class and ask questions, etc give the hours that the dojo is open and the hours of class, website address and whatnot. after recording the message you are happy with, put the phone on first ring answer mode, then mute the ringer.

that way you don't have to worry about answering the phone and can concentrate on the real first reason you are there in the first place: to teach and train. not run a business.

I agree. I teach,but it's not a business. It's more of a hey let's train together type deal.

Here's what I expect and here's what you should expect. No sales,but no money to be made either.

Actually works out rather well. I like to keep the student population to a minimum. I don't have to worry about teaching morons and the like if you know what I mean.

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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<

Quote:errr, regarding the previous post, I personally disagree. I believe that if you are talking to a new potential student on the phone, then you should do everything you can to show them that you are interested in them as a student. Do everything you can to build up their interest by showing interest in them. If you only talk about what you can offer them and don't show any interest in them as a person, then you risk the chance of losing a student by only appealing to a certain small group of people.

did i not say earlier to make sure they know you have an interest in them as a person. i re-read the post you were referring to, and i can see how you can misinterpret it. you need to let the conversation be about them, but at the same time keep in control of the conversation, and what i meant was, its hard to do.