The Suns are 4-5 but appear to be much better than their record. They won their last three home games by 11 points against Golden State, by 25 over Portland, and by 16 over Milwaukee. They lost their last three road games against quality competition - Lakers, Mavs, and Thunder. Hollinger at ESPN has them ranked 12th in his power poll; he has the Cavs 21st.

At least the Cavs won't have to deal with an Al Jefferson or a LaMarcus Aldridge or a Kevin Love. The Suns leading scorer is Martin Gortat at 12.9 ppg. They have eight players scoring in the 8-13 ppg range, though. You don't see that kind of balanced scoring much.

The Suns are a veteran bunch, led by 37-year-old Steve Nash. 39-year-old Grant Hill is also in the rotation. Most everybody else is in their mid-to-late 20s. They don't run much, ranking next to last in pace, but they obviously share the ball and their defense is solid, ranking 10th in points allowed.

They seem to be very solid all the way around but the one major weakness is defensive rebounding, where they rank 29th, so if the Cavs are going to have any chance to upset a smart, experienced team that is very good at home they need to have Andy and TT relentlessly crashing the offensive glass. It's not like the Suns run much, so the Cavs should commit extra bodies to the offensive boards. The Suns rank 6th in opposing FG percentage, so there should be a lot of missed shots.

Speaking of which, the Cavs should stop jacking up so many 3's, at least until they get back to Cleveland. The Suns are 2nd in the NBA in opponent's 3-point percentage at 27% and the Cavs are horrible shooting 3's on the road.

It will be the Cavs youth and energy against the Suns unselfish veterans.

The most interesting matchup will be Nash against Kyrie. You don't see an 18 year age difference between opposing point guards every day. It will be the Old Master against the Grasshopper.

I was doing Uni work until the early hours and forgot the start of this game but caughte the second half. Irving has delivered in his first season so far. The kid is as good as anyone going to the hoop and his shot looks a lot better than I was anticipating in his first season and HURRAY he can hit a free throw. My only concern is the turn overs but it comes with the territory of being a PG and he's only 10 games into his career. I'm loving the team effort so far.

"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

I didn't expect this team to have five road wins all year and they're already halfway there through 10 games. Two have come against Western Conference teams; again, I expected zero, one, or maybe two at the most in the West. As Jesse said, I'm torn. We'll see how the season progresses but if Irving continues to improve at this rate, this team could be a borderline .500 team even though it would behoove them to lose as many games as possible.

Regardless, they're fun to watch and whether eeyore thinks so or not, Irving is definitely a franchise player.

Wasn't it just 2-3 games ago that you scoffed when I called him a franchise player?

e0y2e3 wrote:Hold up, I was all over Kyrie from fucking Sept on last year.

Kyrie is good too, no doubt there, but homey ain't a top five MVP caliber guy.

Well not yet. But from what he's already shown, he's got a decent shot at being a top 5 PG, which I don't have to tell you, is pretty select company. Every year 2-3 of the top 5 PG's seem to be MVP candidates so if Irving can get up into that tier, I don't see any reason he can't be an MVP candidate in the future. Throw in the fact that he would be lifting Cleveland (story #1) up from the ashes of James leaving (story #2) and you've got a saccharine-sweet, Hollywood story that the dolts at ESPN won't stop writing/masturbating about.

And let's not forget, the Cavs don't exactly have a nails second option for him to go to. Jamison is playing well right now, but the Cavs need a stud wing player to take Kyrie into the stratosphere. With an All-Star caliber wing player (I'm holding out hope for Bradley Beal but he seems like he might be heading to top 5-7 status and the Cavs might be playing their way out of the top 8-10), the sky's the limit.

e0y2e3 wrote:Hold up, I was all over Kyrie from fucking Sept on last year.

Kyrie is good too, no doubt there, but homey ain't a top five MVP caliber guy.

Neither is Nash. Yet he has two of the awards sitting on his mantle. And no, that's not comparing Irving to Nash. That's lazy and ignorant. I'm just saying you can have half a game and if it's a great half you can win an MVP without being one of the top 5 players in the game.

I will say this: my over/under number looks like it's going to get crushed. Just didn't put enough stock in the 'they give a shit' part of the equation.

e0y2e3 wrote:Hold up, I was all over Kyrie from fucking Sept on last year.

Kyrie is good too, no doubt there, but homey ain't a top five MVP caliber guy.

Neither is Nash. Yet he has two of the awards sitting on his mantle. And no, that's not comparing Irving to Nash. That's lazy and ignorant. I'm just saying you can have half a game and if it's a great half you can win an MVP without being one of the top 5 players in the game.

I will say this: my over/under number looks like it's going to get crushed. Just didn't put enough stock in the 'they give a shit' part of the equation.

Before the season I was thinking 15 wins with maybe 3-4 road wins. Looks like they might be in the 25-30 range and are actually playing tough on the road. It's encouraging.

Just watched the game. Wow. The Suns won their last three home games by an average of over 17 points and the Cavs came in and beat them by double digits. Extremely impressive. This team continues to exceed our expectations. The cynics who predicted this year's team would be as bad or worse than last year are deep in hiding.

Too bad Kyrie can't play against a 37-year-old, defensively challenged point guard every night. Still, it was a very nice performance, especially making the Suns pay with the outside shot.

The Cavs match up well against the Suns, who don't have a prolific front line player like Love, Jefferson, or Aldridge to exploit the Cavs lack of size and strength. The Cavs were able to take advantage of Phx's rebounding weakness to get 15 offensive boards, with AV leading the way.

It's not all roses, though. Casspi is all but useless. His best move is leaking out for an easy basket once a game. Occasionally he ends up wide open under the basket, probably because the opponents didn't bother to guard him.

And Scott still can't find a backup center. Erden fouled out with no points in 12 minutes. Hollins and Samuels haven't shown much. The Cavs are vulnerable when Varajao is out, but so far Sessions, Gee, TT, and Boobie have made up for the black hole at center on the second unit. But when either Casspi or Erden/Sam/Hollins are on the floor it's like the Cavs are playing 4-on-5.

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:And let's not forget, the Cavs don't exactly have a nails second option for him to go to. Jamison is playing well right now, but the Cavs need a stud wing player to take Kyrie into the stratosphere. With an All-Star caliber wing player (I'm holding out hope for Bradley Beal but he seems like he might be heading to top 5-7 status and the Cavs might be playing their way out of the top 8-10), the sky's the limit.

KIND OF MY POINT

What All-Star wing player made D-Rose? What All-Star made LBJ? What All-Star made CP3? Kyrie is a legit basketball player, but he is a piece, not the man.

Prosecutor wrote:Just watched the game. Wow. The Suns won their last three home games by an average of over 17 points and the Cavs came in and beat them by double digits. Extremely impressive. This team continues to exceed our expectations. The cynics who predicted this year's team would be as bad or worse than last year are deep in hiding.

This team still stinks. Irving is better than I thought he would be so far, but its a small sample size. Our SOS is only .366, we haven't really played anyone good. We beat DET(2-9), CHA(2-9), NJN(2-9), MIN(3-7), and PHX(4-6). Our opening schedule was lacking good teams and only had one back-to-back so far, whereas other teams have had several and had 3 games in 3 nights.

Prosecutor wrote:How did the Suns beat Portland by 25 last week?

Having one of the best points ever to play the game and Portland having a really bad shooting night. Its a long season.

pup wrote:Don't think anyone is deep in hiding. They still only win ~18 games.

Yes, the Cleveland Cavaliers are below average. I do not see the need to trample on a dead man's grave.

So you expect the Cavs to go 13-43 the rest of the way? Even though they've played 7 games on the road and only 3 at home so far? I stand corrected, the cynics are not in hiding. I have to respect your sticking to your guns, but I'm looking for way more than 18 wins. The Eastern Conference sucks, and I've been told there are fewer games percentagewise against Western Conference teams this year.

Good point, pup. The Cavs were 7-9 last year before injuries to Varajao and Jamison eventually derailed their season. If Andy and Twan go down again this year, leaving Erden and Thompson as the starting 5 and 4 with Hollins and Samuels off the bench, your 18 win prediction is looking pretty good.

OTOH, if they stay healthy, your prediction may be a little pessimistic.

Regarding strength of schedule, this year teams are playing 18 of 66 games out of conference, or 27.3%

In normal years they play 30 of 82 games out of conference, or 36.6%.

That may not be significant, however. After 158 games Eastern Conference teams have 78 wins versus 80 for WC teams. The power balance may be swinging back to to neutral, although it's too early to say for sure.

If Kyrie makes top five, good on him, but the list of PGs from 6-10 is an effing mess that is going to be perpectually held back by Steph Curry's bum ankle.

PS: Kyrie isn't even ROY thus far, it is going to be a war between him and Rubio

I think KI will be better than Felton and Jrue, and probably Curry. Curry just can't stay on the court. He might not be the passer that Rubio is, but with a better surrounding cast, I think KI's assist numbers will be pretty close, and he is going to score a lot more.

As far as the top 5? DWill, Rose, and Westbrook for sure. I can't count Wall in when he is shooting 40/28/75 for his career. He should get there, but who knows. CP3 will be there if he still has legs. I'm still out on Rondo. He is great where he is, but I don't think you could put him on the Cavs or the Nets and be great.

^ vastly underrating the attraction between mother and CSI. TED DANSEN is in it now ya know? I actually heard (inside sources and all) that Pros and Mother are in a CSI fantasy league where they draft detectives from one of the five shows and get points based on how much input the detectives have in solving crimes.

e0y2e3 wrote:^ vastly underrating the attraction between mother and CSI. TED DANSEN is in it now ya know? I actually heard (inside sources and all) that Pros and Mother are in a CSI fantasy league where they draft detectives from one of the five shows and get points based on how much input the detectives have in solving crimes.

Just heresay and all, but ya know.....

I was going to dismiss this as your desperate attempt to change the subject but.... after reading it twice... it actually might be plausible and I can see it happening.

e0y2e3 wrote:Sadly no, I'm pretty sure OJ just sits around every night watching Youtubes of Michael Olowokandi while muttering "KANTER... KANTER... KANTER" over and over to himself.

Again...godammit...plausible. I can see it. You may have your finger more on the pulse than I was willing to previously acknowledge. But there will be a day when you have to reconcile your TV ratings glee with the realization of just how many goofballs and wack jobs breathe the same air that you breathe and you acknowledge you can't have your cake and eat it too.

How the hell did I get dragged into this? I don't know the first damn thing about basketball. All I know is a stupid take when I see one. And then I make a smart ass remark about it that will rarely make any sense and only be funny on Tuesdays after 7:30PM Mountain time if the Charlotte Bobcats played the night prior and made over 72% of their free throws and less turnovers than the Cavs in the last 6 minutes of the second quarter.

<-- watched only one more episode ever, as it was enough to verify that the pilot was a lie and that instead of a smart comedy ripping on how stupid Ohio people are Glee was in fact going to be a Tween targeted pile of horseshit. THE PILOT WAS A LIE

<-- watched only one more episode ever, as it was enough to verify that the pilot was a lie and that instead of a smart comedy ripping on how stupid Ohio people are Glee was in fact going to be a Tween targeted pile of horseshit. THE PILOT WAS A LIE

I watched it too. Wasn't it on right after the Super Bowl or something? I don't remember actively disliking it, but I never felt compelled to ever watch it again. And I sure as shit don't remember any character names.

When I think back on it I'm not sure if what I have in my brains is a scene from Glee or a scene from Mr Holland's Opus.

Last edited by motherscratcher on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

e0y2e3 wrote:I still take a healthy Curry ten times out of ten over Kyrie.

My point. Hasn't proven that he can stay healthy. Also, I think you are going to eat these words.

I still take Wall ten times out of ten over Kyrie, although every day he spends in DC continues to poison him and potentially ruin his career.

I love Wall. Most physically gifted pg in the league IMO. But he isn't hitting shots and his team is total shit. I don't know if he still isn't healthy or what, but he isn't looking like the leader and player top-pick PG should be at this time.

I still flip a coin between Rubio and Kyrie.

Rubio has a huge experience edge at the moment, and isn't a rookie in the sense that KI is. KI has only played 24 games in the past 2 years, and couldn't stay in shape because of his foot like Rubio could. Rubio also has gobs more talent surrounding him. These make it hard to make a solid prediction about how their talents can be compared in the future.

And your Rondo take is just HORRIBLE. Rondo isn't baskteball geezes, but christ, he is the only reason the Celtics are relevant at this point. Kid is good, damn good.

The Celtics are relevant? Yeah, Rondo is the best player on an old as fuck team because he is the only one is the starting line up who isn't eligible for an AARP membership.

Rondo can drive and kick to Allen, Pierce (even if he is shooting terribly from 2), or Garnett. How do you think Rondo would look when he has to kick to Casspi, Parker, and Jamison? Or kicking to Blatche and whatever me-first scrubs the Wiz have on their roster.

My point is that if your franchise guy is someone you are flipping coins about and comparing to Steph Curry (WHO STILL HAS MONTA TO BE MONTA SEXY) he is a piece and a good guy, not a franchise.

I'm not flipping a coin. I'll say it, Kyrie will be a better point than Steph Curry.

I see Kyrie ending up the Horford of point guards and that is not at all an insult.

I don't know that Kyrie is going to be our franchise guy, but I like the odds of it a lot more than I did when we drafted him, when I thought he was going to be a solid piece in a crap draft.