Higher quality of life for who? You because if things were to change tomorrow and the entire country flipped to socialism, not a thing would change for you. The inner city and the extremely poor would get your money. If you think you'd be getting anything you're mistaken. And by "you" I mean everyone who is fortunate enough to have the access to and free time to post on the internet.

I'm not American. I'm Canadian. I already pay a significant portion of my income to support people who earn less than me. Yet, Canadians generally have a higher quality of life than Americans.

Given a choice between being a "prosperous country" and having a higher quality of life, I'll take the latter. Of what benefit is all that prosperity if it doesn't make your life better?

Ok, reading between your lines again, what you're actually saying is you can't take care of yourself so you perfer the govt as a crutch to prop up your quality of life, collectivism? I see.

So what if you started your own business, became extremely successful, made an assload of money and the the govt wanted over half of all the profits & revenues? Are you ok with giving half of your money (January-June you & the business make nothing) and then July-Dec is yours?

1) That didn't really answer my question. You implied that you have experiences living under a socialist system that none of us have. What are they, and why do they invalidate the examples of the many countries on the list I posted earlier with deep socialist tendencies and higher quality of life than the US by nearly all measures?

2) China is not socialist or communist. They're very nearly the sort of anarcho-capitalist country that many Ron Paul fans advocate.

I have lived under Communism/Socialism. Where 70% of your money is taxed and everything belongs to the state. How about that? That gives me ample experience with Socialism.

Ok, reading between your lines again, what you're actually saying is you can't take care of yourself so you perfer the govt as a crutch to prop up your quality of life, collectivism? I see.

So what if you started your own business, became extremely successful, made an assload of money and the the govt wanted over half of all the profits & revenues? Are you ok with giving half of your money (January-June you & the business make nothing) and then July-Dec is yours?

You're not reading what I'm saying. I am successful and earn well above average income. I'm not asking anyone to support me. I support others and I'm happy to. By any objective measure, the same is true of many of the countries with higher taxes than the US.

You're not reading what I'm saying. I am successful and earn well above average income. I'm not asking anyone to support me. I support others and I'm happy to. By any objective measure, the same is true of many of the countries with higher taxes than the US.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. You're evidence of the American mentality is in this thread. At one point it was called the American Dream. Waking up everyday and busting your ass to make it. That still holds true for a large number of people, because of this we won't stand by and let those hard earned dollars go.

This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. You're evidence of the American mentality is in this thread. At one point it was called the American Dream. Waking up everyday and busting your ass to make it. That still holds true for a large number of people, because of this we won't stand by and let those hard earned dollars go.

That is not what I or anyone else is advocating. I'm advocating a system like Canada or many European countries, where taxes are well below 70% and not everything belongs to the state.

It sounds like you're addressing a strawman.

Well since you guys claim to be so versed on Socialism. I was pointing out Socialism, a truer for of it. The Socialism I have experienced.

For anything to work on Harmony Capitalism and much as Socialism is needed. Capitalism does work better than Socialism, but in fact to keep everyone happy in the country, some Socialistic Ideas need to be implemented.

I do not mind paying Taxes, but when you hear stories about freeloaders in the USA is infuriating. So I much prefer pure Capitalism. I know I will survive Capitalism just fine. Freeloaders, no so much.

Really? You have strolled around college campuses lately or met many business owners have you?

yeah, I've met plenty of foreigners from 3rd world countries that have settled here and they are happy to do so. How many people from industrialized European nations do you see climbing the walls to come here? Any? We have such a problem with Canadians trying to get into this country that we have a fence and armed guards patrolling every square inch of the border...ohh wait...no we don't. The students you see on the campuses that are from 1st world countries aren't staying here. They are just using the educational system.

Originally Posted by winstonsmith84

Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.

Well since you guys claim to be so versed on Socialism. I was pointing out Socialism, a truer for of it. The Socialism I have experienced.

For anything to work on Harmony Capitalism and much as Socialism is needed. Capitalism does work better than Socialism, but in fact to keep everyone happy in the country, some Socialistic Ideas need to be implemented.

I do not mind paying Taxes, but when you hear stories about freeloaders in the USA is infuriating. So I much prefer pure Capitalism. I know I will survive Capitalism just fine. Freeloaders, no so much.

I am not arguing for anything in excess. What you describe sounds excessive.

I am successful and earn well above average income. I'm not asking anyone to support me. I support others and I'm happy to. By any objective measure, the same is true of many of the countries with higher taxes than the US.

So what's your tax rate?

I'm self-employed and earn a nice living myself but when comes to "fair", I feel a round number of 25% should suffice. That way I can live off 50%, invest 15%, 10% to charity, and 25% to taxes.

yeah, I've met plenty of foreigners from 3rd world countries that have settled here and they are happy to do so. How many people from industrialized European nations do you see climbing the walls to come here? Any? We have such a problem with Canadians trying to get into this country that we have a fence and armed guards patrolling every square inch of the border...ohh wait...no we don't. The students you see on the campuses that are from 1st world countries aren't staying here. They are just using the educational system.

The system is screwed up. I see it on a daily basis and it makes me sick. People cheating, lieing and abusing the system cause they are lazy and don't want to work or do much to get by. Wish they would make it harder for people to get the aid they need or a way to make sure they are using it what it is meant for. No wonder why each state and even the government is saying they are losing money and/or going in or are in debt. They are handing out free money to people.
I have seen people who could really need the help or aid, but are turned away and then some jackass who doesnt really need it get it.

Originally Posted by Ron@RMAMotorsport

real deal<p>After spending two months in the mk3 forum it drove into the woods and set fire to itself.

99% of the problem IMHO lies with allowing companies to fund election campaigns

Elections shouldn't be funded by private money not even the candidates.
Let some-one collect 100.000 signatures to be able to run and then give them 1 million to fund their election with government money.

Welcome to the internet:
Where men are men, women are men, and little girls are FBI agents.

Member of VOLKSFORUM.COM"I like my women like i like my coffee,.... plastic cup"-Eddie Izzard.

FV-QR

I'm going to say what I say in every healthcare or socialism thread. The main 'problem' with this country and applying the rules of other countries is the fact that the USA has an extremely heterozygous population. Moreso than any other nation. Socialism works to certain extents in Canada and Europe because basically everyone is the same and wants the same things. So as long as we're a melting pot, socialism will not work.

That being said, welfare should be temporary. 6 months. And you absolutely should have to pass a drug test to get it. Go look at Appalachia and tell me that mandatory drug tests for their aid wouldn't begin to start to solve some of the problems there.

Even though the USA's founding fathers their selves were wealthy and of elite social status that didn't trust monarchs, the government still evolved to the point where only individuals from the right families, with money, connections, and going to the right schools, are the only ones that end up in higher ranked political positions in our government. Aristocrats controls the USA.

The system is screwed up. I see it on a daily basis and it makes me sick. People cheating, lieing and abusing the system cause they are lazy and don't want to work or do much to get by. Wish they would make it harder for people to get the aid they need or a way to make sure they are using it what it is meant for. No wonder why each state and even the government is saying they are losing money and/or going in or are in debt. They are handing out free money to people.
I have seen people who could really need the help or aid, but are turned away and then some jackass who doesnt really need it get it.

Yeah, we should never have bailed out the banks. Just gave those lazy good-for-nothings no incentive to change

Originally Posted by winstonsmith84

Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.

Vote Ron Paul, but he'll never win. Presidents are hand picked, by the social elite, the political parties, the corporate monarchs, banks, etc.

Voters just have the illusion of participating, when they really have no say in the matter (example: GWB Jr.)

You're exactly right except for the example which should read Obama. Did anyone really hear or know of him before 2008? He was a Senator for 2yrs then president out of nowhere? Obama burst onto the scene as our saviour. How's that Hope and Change working out for ya?

It's the "world ruling elite" who prep and control the balance of governance in America and around the world. There's plenty of info out there on this subject.

Originally Posted by zaYG

How about you read up on history and actually learn about their economic system before acting like you know what you are talking about.

I know the differences, I've studied history, economics, & religions. I'm an old bastard who's read more than enough to form rational & intelligent summations of various contrasts between each. You need a refresh course on the other hand.

Obama shares the same lineage as Bush, and before people started getting onto the O bandwagon, who was an internet sensation that kept popping up on social networking sites as choice of the young generation's pick for President? Ron Paul.

Then the Obama campaign organizers used that very tool against Ron Paul's supporters... social networking sites. We witnessed a Corporate brainwashing with our very own eyes using the tools that we all thought we were immune from such mind control, the internet.

Obama did share Bush, new boss looks like the old boss. Are you a Ron Pauler?
Is this the O bandwagon zone in here?

If I knew Ron Paul had a chance, I would vote for him. I've been able to vote since the 2004 Presidential elections, but I lived in Texas and knew my vote would be useless if it went to Kerry or someone other than GWB. I've never registered yet, because in my opinion my vote doesn't really matter even if I were registered to vote.

It matters in local and regional elections more than the presidential elections. Vote, you slug!

Originally Posted by winstonsmith84

Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.

If I knew Ron Paul had a chance, I would vote for him. I've been able to vote since the 2004 Presidential elections, but I lived in Texas and knew my vote would be useless if it went to Kerry or someone other than GWB. I've never registered yet, because in my opinion my vote doesn't really matter even if I were registered to vote.

Kudos to you! Your vote counts so register up and remember, Congress holds just as much power if not more, that's where you can make a difference.