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I do not hate anyone, but you seem to believe that because I present facts that are supported with links, articles, and Bible quotes that I am attacking you.

I don't take anything that you say personally, because I understand what you're going through.

The Governing body is a billion dollar organization that controls every aspect of every member's life, while believing that everyone is with satan and everyone is going to be destroyed.

In fact, by Jehovah's Witnesses standards, you aren't even supposed to post on here, because internet blogs are part of "Satan and the system of things."

It is a fact that the Jehovah's Witness Organization wants God to kill everyone so that they could then be saved.

The governing body teaches its members to cheer for Armageddon so that then everyone and everything could be destroyed except for the select Witnesses.

This is a video of what happens to under aged 13 year olds who are baptized into the Jehovah's Witnesses and then decide to leave once they become an adult.

The man in this video lost all his family, friends, and even his wife thanks to the Jehovah's Witness Organization.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

this man chose to leave God. Therefore choosing to to also lose his family, who wanted to remain serving God. The same way Satan lost his relationship with God and the angels who who remained in service to God, so too those who choose to leave God as humans. It is a theocratic arrangement. Ordained by God.

Also, you say we are run by people. This is not true. The governing Body, down to the newest member of JW follow the BIBLE. Not people. Everything JW, a true JW, follows is based on the bible. Yes, the governing body acts as leaders in spirituality, but that is no diff from Moses day, when God ordained Aaron and his sons in the same manner.In the end, we all have to abide by biblical principles, not our own. And regardless to what you, or anyone else may think or say, there is not a group of Christians on planet earth who do this wholeheartedly, as JW do. We don't meddle in your politics, your way of life, we don't fight in your armies, we don't do much, cept knock on doors promoting a righteous government, headed by God's Son. In fact, if we were not preaching, no one would know we even existed. That is how apart from the world JW are.

Apparently you have been personally affected in one way or another, and seem to blame to orginization for your issue. And that's fine. I will say this though, it's always easier to deflect blame, than accept. There is still time to speak to Jehovah for a reconciliation. Good day.

Also, for all those reading, this thread is about the Bible, and what IT teaches. Jehovah's witnesses allow the biblical theme to tell us what the Bible is saying, rather than put our synopsis on it. One could theorhetically say, it is our spin on it, and I suppose in a philosophical way, you can say so. But if one takes into account the theme, then there is no leg to stand on concerning that viewpoint. That is the difference between JW take on the bible, and mainstream Christianity, or Christendom.

For instance, we don't say God accepts homosexuality, because he loves all. Why? Because it would make this verse invalid

1st Corinthians 6:9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men,

Notice it does not single out homosexuality. Fornicators, drunkards and such as well. The words "do not be misled" are very powerful. Yes, God loves all. But he does not love unrighteous behavior. He has deemed homosexuality unrighteous, as well as other things, and the verse says If I am doing these things, thinking I am being approved by God, therefore eventually seeing the Kingdom of the Heavens, I am either misleading myself, or being mislead.

So my question is, how is it that this verse is in every bible in existence, in every church, every Kingdom hall, wedding chapel, etc... and Yet there are preachers who condone this very behavior? It comes down to people wanting to put their spin on God's word, instead of listening to what GOD is saying.

This is why God has his people preaching, so that people can come to know the truth. This thread is about that. For those who wish to learn the truth, I ask you to read on, or better yet, the next time a couple of people come knocking on your door sat morn, invite them in talk with them.

this man chose to leave God. Therefore choosing to to also lose his family, who wanted to remain serving God. The same way Satan lost his relationship with God and the angels who who remained in service to God, so too those who choose to leave God as humans. It is a theocratic arrangement. Ordained by God.

Also, you say we are run by people. This is not true. The governing Body, down to the newest member of JW follow the BIBLE.

1. Thanks for admitting that the Jehovah's Witnesses pass blame on 13 year olds who are forcefully baptized by strict parents and then condemned for leaving the church once they are old enough to decide for themselves.
I'm sure 13 year olds know everything they want in life, so it's perfectly fine to baptize them and expect a life long commitment.

2. You've already proven that the governing body teaches hate, based on your support of parents disowning their children.

3. I don't know if you actually believe the governing body follows the Bible as its main source, but the Governing body holds the Watchtower Magazine as the final word.

In fact, a Jehovah's Witness woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witness leaders if she would choose something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible or if she would choose what was in the Bible, and she said she would choose the Bible. As a result, the woman was disfellowshipped.

For those of you who don't know, someone who is disfellowshipped by the JWs lose all their family, friends, spouses, and children.

The Witnesses are to ignore the shunned person and consider them as "dead."

In addition, Jehovah's Witnesses preach that it is impossible to use the Bible alone. That is one of the reasons why they believe all other Christian denominations will be wiped out by God.

1. Thanks for admitting that the Jehovah's Witnesses pass blame on 13 year olds who are forcefully baptized by strict parents and then condemned for leaving the church once they are old enough to decide for themselves.
I'm sure 13 year olds know everything they want in life, so it's perfectly fine to baptize them and expect a life long commitment.

2. You've already proven that the governing body teaches hate, based on your support of parents disowning their children.

3. I don't know if you actually believe the governing body follows the Bible as its main source, but the Governing body holds the Watchtower Magazine as the final word.

In fact, a Jehovah's Witness woman was asked by the Jehovah's Witness leaders if she would choose something in the Watchtower that contradicted the Bible or if she would choose what was in the Bible, and she said she would choose the Bible. As a result, the woman was disfellowshipped.

For those of you who don't know, someone who is disfellowshipped by the JWs lose all their family, friends, spouses, and children.

The Witnesses are to ignore the shunned person and consider them as "dead."

In addition, Jehovah's Witnesses preach that it is impossible to use the Bible alone. That is one of the reasons why they believe all other Christian denominations will be wiped out by God.

Jehovah's Witnesses consider all other denominations and religions as SATAN WORSHIPERS

But yet you want people to believe the JW organization is kind and humble.

Here's the link:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

P.S.- Jehovah's Witnesses believe every player on the New York Knicks and every non-witness on the KO forum is with Satan and will be vanquished by Jehovah, if they don't convert.

That's just to show you how hateful the governing body teaches its members to be.

You cannot be forced to be baptized. Period. However, I do believe some of our young people feel the pressure to be baptized by their parents due to being around the faith all their lives. Their parents want the best for them, and whats better than a relationship with God? However, it should not be forced on a person, child or otherwise.

And secondly, we do not believe if you are not a JW you are a devil worshipor. But we are all... ALL living in Satans system. So whether one knows it or not, Satans hands are personally wielding this way of life. To be a Satan worhipor, you must openly claim him as your God. But even if one does not, and yet knows what God requires of himself, yet does not do so, he is saying he wishes to be his own God. Like Adam and Eve did. That decision brought them death, because God removed himself from them. So again, come correct, if you are going to try and bash biblical teaching.

Jesus' love is boundless, it is not conditional, which would mean limitation, i.e., lack of perfect love.

Groups who state otherwise are stuck on words they do not truly understand, when, as metrocard stated, the bible, like all other spiritual books, is truly a closed book: its words are limited. It was meant to guide one to something real, something behind the words.

We can only truly be in communion with the divine by reading the gospel, and books like it, and then closing it, so that we can experience what lies behind words like those of Jesus, consulting with the gospel only for guidance to the undefinable (by words) state.

Those who reach this state of total freedom and bliss no longer need these books for anything other than to help others. They have found the mystical experiences that the books try to put into words, usually ineffectually, since we tend to bring our impediments to our reading of these texts.

When you go beyond words, you have found proof of the supreme, the undefinable: Reality. It is not easy, because we make it hard: we want to find truth, but we do not want to give up the impediments (self-imposed rules) to truth that lie within. Ultimately, we blame others for our inability to find truth, and not ourselves [for getting in our own way].

Following rules, spiritually, is being a slave to mere words on paper, having eyes, yet not seeing, as Jesus said. Nothing more. We are to be nothing, all the great teachers: Buddha, Jesus exhorted to deny ourselves. Jesus states that, to be his disciple, one must deny oneself and become one with him (it is stated throughout the text).

I exhort you all to search for truth, tirelessly, in spite of yourselves and the other selves around you.

I will be creating a thread on spirituality, and you're all welcome to post in it. It will be about YOU, your views, your sense of spirituality, etc. People like Jesus came for you, care about how you feel.

Jesus' love is boundless, it is not conditional, which would mean limitation, i.e., lack of perfect love.

Groups who state otherwise are stuck on words they do not truly understand, when, as metrocard stated, the bible, like all other spiritual books, is truly a closed book: its words are limited. It was meant to guide one to something real, something behind the words.

We can only truly be in communion with the divine by reading the gospel, and books like it, and then closing it, so that we can experience what lies behind words like those of Jesus, consulting with the gospel only for guidance to the undefinable (by words) state.

Those who reach this state of total freedom and bliss no longer need these books for anything other than to help others. They have found the mystical experiences that the books try to put into words, usually ineffectually, since we tend to bring our impediments to our reading of these texts.

When you go beyond words, you have found proof of the supreme, the undefinable: Reality. It is not easy, because we make it hard: we want to find truth, but we do not want to give up the impediments (self-imposed rules) to truth that lie within. Ultimately, we blame others for our inability to find truth, and not ourselves [for getting in our own way].

Following rules, spiritually, is being a slave to mere words on paper, having eyes, yet not seeing, as Jesus said. Nothing more. We are to be nothing, all the great teachers: Buddha, Jesus exhorted to deny ourselves. Jesus states that, to be his disciple, one must deny oneself and become one with him (it is stated throughout the text).

I exhort you all to search for truth, tirelessly, in spite of yourselves and the other selves around you.

I will be creating a thread on spirituality, and you're all welcome to post in it. It will be about YOU, your views, your sense of spirituality, etc. People like Jesus came for you, care about how you feel.

Hopefully, it doesn't suck.

PEACE n' LOVE

So one who decides to listen to God by following the rules in his book are actually not serving God, but slaving to his book? So what should one do to please God, all knowing OGKnicksfan? Even Jesus followed the rules of Gods closed book. To perfection, I might add. Why? Obviously, he felt a lot different about God's book than you do. Yet, you act as if you are closer than Jesus than the ones doing what he said would bring them to God. I'm lost.

Jesus said it all here.

John 17:John 17:1-26

1 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

6 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth.

JESUS IS A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS! You and Jesus do not believe the same things. Why is it that you try and act as if you have a higher understanding of God's word, when clearly you and Jesus are on opposite spectrums?

You cannot be forced to be baptized. Period. However, I do believe some of our young people feel the pressure to be baptized by their parents due to being around the faith all their lives. Their parents want the best for them, and whats better than a relationship with God? However, it should not be forced on a person, child or otherwise.

And secondly, we do not believe if you are not a JW you are a devil worshipor. But we are all... ALL living in Satans system. So whether one knows it or not, Satans hands are personally wielding this way of life. To be a Satan worhipor, you must openly claim him as your God. But even if one does not, and yet knows what God requires of himself, yet does not do so, he is saying he wishes to be his own God. Like Adam and Eve did. That decision brought them death, because God removed himself from them. So again, come correct, if you are going to try and bash biblical teaching.

1. So according to you, a 13 year old cannot be forced to be baptized by strict Jehovah's Witness parents, because the 13 year old could always choose to separate themselves from their parents and become homeless at age 18.

But not to worry. 85% of Americans hold a High School Diploma or GED, so he should have no problem having to compete with over 300 million Americans for a job.

2. You admitted that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone is under the power of Satan.

And since Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only true religion, that implies they feel all other religions are false and inferior.

And since Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people who can be saved by God, that implies you believe the other religions are with Satan.

If this wasn't the case, the Witnesses would not state that they are the only true religion.

3. And the fact that you titled this thread "What does the Bible REALLY teach" implies that you feel all other Christians are taught the Bible INCORRECTLY and all other religious groups are also taught faux information.

And the information you posted came from a book published by the Watchtower Society.

It's on sale at Amazon.com.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (Author)[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

So one who decides to listen to God by following the rules in his book are actually not serving God, but slaving to his book? So what should one do to please God, all knowing OGKnicksfan? Even Jesus followed the rules of Gods closed book. To perfection, I might add. Why? Obviously, he felt a lot different about God's book than you do. Yet, you act as if you are closer than Jesus than the ones doing what he said would bring them to God. I'm lost.

Jesus said it all here.

John 17:John 17:1-26

1 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

6 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth.

JESUS IS A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS! You and Jesus do not believe the same things. Why is it that you try and act as if you have a higher understanding of God's word, when clearly you and Jesus are on opposite spectrums?

Truth, not rules, brings the joy and good conduct inherent in Jesus' life and teachings, as well as that of the greatest spiritual teachers. This is why Jesus went against the sabbath rules, went against biblical rules that commanded He not touch women (who could possibly be on their menstrual cycle), and went against rules against eating food prepared by gentiles.

The gospel and epistles asks us to follow His example, meaning we are to follow one rule, love: we are to love Christ, and each other, in a a manner that is unconditional [to rules, even biblical ones].

Rules exist because many of us do not know real love, real kindness, holy contemplation and can only avoid harming one another and ourselves (superficially, not truly, at that) as a result of coercion by those in authority. When Jesus dispels the darkness with, as the light, it is not with words and legalism, it is with grace and perception, unbounded by the limitations of the world, e.g., written language, a necessary evil.

The bible, particularly the gospel and epistles, is one of many holy books that guide one to bliss, but it is not itself bliss. It is a tool for communication of something that exists beyond its words. If words is all you have, divine grace is missing.

Naturally, someone who knows real love and kindness, does not kill, steal, lie, hate, disfellowship, turn away a sick person on the sabbath, or receive punishment from the divine, regardless of his superficial beliefs (what he calls God, how he believes in God's nature, etc.).

As for Jesus being exclusive to your organization, something that, if you believe it, you should proclaim it with no shame, instead of hiding it from the people you witness to, you speak just like the pharisees. They also believed they had an exclusive covenant, and Jesus told them they wrong, that their hearts were hardened, and they were listening to their figurative "father," not him.

If you cannot see that the pain caused by your organization, as superbly compiled by ABCD, is incongruous with Jesus' message of "love, in spite of rules," then you do not truly understand Jesus. This does not necessarily mean you need to leave your group, which is what you tell others about their religions. It means you need to practice being a witness in a different spirit and, if need be, remain silent on certain pieces of doctrine.

So one who decides to listen to God by following the rules in his book are actually not serving God, but slaving to his book? So what should one do to please God, all knowing OGKnicksfan? Even Jesus followed the rules of Gods closed book. To perfection, I might add. Why? Obviously, he felt a lot different about God's book than you do. Yet, you act as if you are closer than Jesus than the ones doing what he said would bring them to God. I'm lost.

Jesus said it all here.

John 17:John 17:1-26

1 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

6 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth.

JESUS IS A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS! You and Jesus do not believe the same things. Why is it that you try and act as if you have a higher understanding of God's word, when clearly you and Jesus are on opposite spectrums?

Truth, not rules, brings the joy and good conduct inherent in Jesus' life and teachings, as well as that of the greatest spiritual teachers. This is why Jesus went against the sabbath rules by helping a sick man on the sabbath, went against biblical rules that commanded He not touch women (who could possibly be on their menstrual cycle), and went against rules against eating food prepared by gentiles.

The gospel and epistles asks us to follow His example, meaning we are to follow one rule, love: we are to love everyone and thing, in a a manner that is unconditional [to rules, even biblical ones]. This is the embodiment of divine love, loving our enemies, loving our friends, loving strangers. There is no rule that can make us love, and this is why organizations, yours included, so often fail: you cannot organize or contain love. It is wild and free, boundless, when truly practiced.

Rules exist because many of us do not know real love, real kindness, holy contemplation and can only avoid harming (superficially, at that) one another and ourselves as a result of coercion (through rules), by those in authority. When Jesus, "the light," as he refers to himself, dispels the darkness, it is not with words, rules and legalism, it is with grace and perception, unbounded by the limitations of the world, e.g., written language, a necessary evil (which your endless magazines and publications add to).

Holy books are a guide to bliss, but they are not themselves bliss, they are mere paper and ink. The bible is a tool for communication of something that exists beyond its words. If words is all you have, divine grace is missing, and all you are left with is the endless publications that you rely on, rather than the holy spirit Jesus stated he would send to the world after his death.

Naturally, someone who knows real love and kindness, rather than rules: "do this," "don't do that," does not kill, steal, lie, hate, disfellowship or separate a person from his or her loved ones, turn away a sick person on the sabbath, or receive punishment from the divine, regardless of his or her superficial beliefs (what he or she calls supreme, how he believes in the supreme's nature, etc.).

As for your statement on Jesus being exclusive to your organization, you speak just like the pharisees. They also believed they had an exclusive covenant, and Jesus told them they wrong, that their hearts were hardened, and they were listening to their figurative "father," the governing body and watchtower and awake magazines, in your case, not him.

If you cannot see that the pain caused by your organization, as superbly compiled by ABCD, is incongruous with Jesus' message of "love, in spite of rules," then you do not truly understand Jesus. This does not necessarily mean you need to leave your group, which is what you tell others about what you secretly believe are their satanic religions. It means you need to practice being a witness in a different spirit and, if need be, remain silent, and not act, on certain pieces of JW doctrine that are not in the spirit of Christ's life and teachings.

Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono

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Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

So how come its principles and teachings, if applied in ones life today, are beneficial?

How is it beneficial when the knowledge is limited?

Knowledge should be unlimited, and adoptable to change and the environment.

The bible isn't that. Its outdated, closed minded, limited and its against humanity.

If the bible was editable and open to new ideas, I would embrace it fully.

Keep in mind I was raised roman catholic due to my environment and my family tradition. I have nothing against religious people, I just wish they actually used the theology into good and productive use. You don't have to agree my brother. I just say it how it is.

Knowledge should be unlimited, and adoptable to change and the environment.

The bible isn't that. Its outdated, closed minded, limited and its against humanity.

If the bible was editable and open to new ideas, I would embrace it fully.

Keep in mind I was raised roman catholic due to my environment and my family tradition. I have nothing against religious people, I just wish they actually used the theology into good and productive use. You don't have to agree my brother. I just say it how it is.

I completely agree with your statement, on this being a closed book. In the new testament, Jesus is saying the same thing you are.

He wants people to find something that exists beyond the words, he did not speak just to have the words written down. So, to get stuck on the words is to miss the point. The problem is that people often do not understand that: as Jesus said, one must come to him like a little child or be utterly lost in oneself: in the form of one's own impediments, which one often believes are great characteristics, e.g., faith in money or romance as the path to happiness.

Many religious people, instead of coming to Jesus as little children (full of innocence), come to Jesus and other spiritual teachers with loads of baggage: anger, hate, bitterness, greed, and so their understanding is colored by such, when they actually need the pure knowledge of Jesus, to overcome the baggage that colors their practice of "religion."

When such people spoke to me, in my younger years, I confused their message with Jesus', because this is how they presented things. I wonder if this has been your experience.

In any case, only recently did I re-read the new testament, beginning to end, with no end in mind (no one directing me to a page, no one interpreting for me, just me and the book). I let the message speak for itself and came to understand Jesus cared not for rules: he never condemned anyone, he in fact broke biblical rules regularly for the sake of those in need of help. He simply wanted peace and happiness for all beings.

I'm not saying this as a Christian, by the way, just someone who loves Jesus' message.

After over a decade of studying many religions, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Jainism, being an atheist and an agnostic, etc., I have come to see that every person has a conception of something supreme, be it Krishna or the physical universe, naming it is insignificant. All the great teachers directed us toward something supreme, some name it, others do not. It is in spite of ourselves, and not because of ourselves: names, religious membership, it exists.

When a self tries to define the supreme, rather than telling you it exists and that you should find it for yourself, he is psychologically imprisoning you. This is why people like you and LJ and me, who question the cage, are capable of the most spirituality.

I know, it seems ironic, but I think it's clear. Anyway, I hope this is not offensive to you, I'm not trying to tell you what to think and hopefully this does not come off that way.

I do recommend you read the new testament, as I did, with no end in mind, no one directing you, from either side: atheists/agnostics or Christians, so that perhaps you find the message of Christ. Let me know what you find: it would be interesting to know.

Here are a couple of links I use:

Sacred Texts has some of the most important books from almost every religion:[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

This is the online version of The Imitation of Christ, which is the book that made me want to read the new testament, after years of having given up on the bible. It is basically the point of view of a medieval monk, Kempis, who writes on his love for Christ, addressing various topics: anger, selfishness, love, etc.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

EDIT: Biblegateway is very good, if you want to read the new testament at home (Matthew is the first book of the new testament, I copied that link in here for you. Just use the arrows to move from section to section)