Thomas, I'm pretty sure this is a "Strap 1" that will contain a 13 ligne Rebberg cal. 870. I believe that the telltale sign is the wire lugs running the entire width of the case. But I think the comparatively soft-cornered case and double sunk dial also suggest Strap 1. But I've only had this model once before, so I could easily be surprised and find something else in there. But Jack, Timeticker and Cary have what appear to be the same watch and they've all had the 870.

Well, it turned out to be a mixed bag. The case is in nice shape, the dial has no flaws. I was a little relieved when I looked at the movement. At least it looked clean. But, the balance staff is broken. I can hardly see the hairspring (not sure what that means, but probably not a good sign). And when you wind it, the center wheel just spins freely (again, not sure what that means, but probably not good). Looks like I'm on the hunt for a donor 870. And I just spotted one on eBay a couple of months ago and thought about grabbing it in case I ever nabbed another Strap 1. D'oh!

Some pics:
Clean might have been an overstatement regarding the movement. But at least it's not a pile of rust. And I shouldn't complain, considering the shape Jack's 870 movement was in when he got it and he managed to get it running.

You seem to be missing the hairspring. no wonder you cannot find it: Ain't there. Sounds like you are missing other parts too if the center wheel is spinnng freely. I posted over on your "wanted" thread. May be able to help out with some aspects of this project.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

Thomas, I'm pretty sure this is a "Strap 1" that will contain a 13 ligne Rebberg cal. 870. I believe that the telltale sign is the wire lugs running the entire width of the case. But I think the comparatively soft-cornered case and double sunk dial also suggest Strap 1. But I've only had this model once before, so I could easily be surprised and find something else in there. But Jack, Timeticker and Cary have what appear to be the same watch and they've all had the 870.

The double sunk dial is the tell. I've never had a 771 (or one of the other movements , of which I have two) with one.

You seem to be missing the hairspring. no wonder you cannot find it: Ain't there.

It actually is, or at least remnants of it are. Whatever's there (I can't really tell other than that there's some spring there) is under the balance cock. Either way, I presume it's pretty much useless.

I have one without the sunken dial, but it's still a silver case. It also has a caliber 611. I'm wondering since the Strap 2, etc, have a 611 if the Strap 1 shipped with multiple movements. Ads from the early 20's from Gruen give long lists of prices indicating they are "according to case and movement". A similar watch, the 1922 No. 123 Cushion Square, for example, lists 9 prices ranging from $25 to $125.

Agree with thojil on this one. It's an A. Schild made movement. Incidentally, one of these in a Canadian-made round case went over eBay this past week. Interesting as it was marked "Primo" on the movement but no Gruen markings on the case in the images.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

Yep. There was an obvious case screw mark which made me very suspicious on that one. Although I recall that Gruen cased some movements in Canada using AWCC made/marked case but I was pretty sure it would/should say Gruen on the case too.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

DOH! It's not a 611, for sure. It matches the 771 in the 1926 parts book (page 164 of the Repairer's Ref), but it didn't look 13 lignes to me until I measured it a few times. Weird movement to be in there. There's enough room in the case with no problem, not an overly tight fit as if it were replacing a 707. Sloppy research on my part. Thanks for the correction! Any idea of what it could be?

I would say it is Plate 22C from the 1918 catalog. Unfortunately, the 1918 catalog can be quite vague. In the price list at the end it just calls it Out o' Doors - Paris Square Style with a price range of $21 to $80 in sterling silver. And apparently these were supplied with the canvas strap.

Some of the other entries are more specific. For example, Strap 1 = Plate 23B and it does list some sort of model number - M20R for "fully jeweled" movement (I would assume this is the 15 jewel 870), sterling silver; M647R 17 jewels, sterling silver; M647RG 17 jewels, 14k green gold.

For the first time I'm noticing that some of these model numbers are clearly referencing the movement caliber. I'd wager that the 17 jewel versions of the Strap 1 contain the cal. 647. And Plate 23A, M89RZG has an 18 jewel movement, which would fit the cal. 89. But other numbers don't seem to. Confusing.

I would say it is Plate 22C from the 1918 catalog. Unfortunately, the 1918 catalog can be quite vague. In the price list at the end it just calls it Out o' Doors - Paris Square Style with a price range of $21 to $80 in sterling silver. And apparently these were supplied with the canvas strap.

Wow! Spot on in my opinion. I didn't even think to check the Worthy Company book / 1918 catalog. It needs to get into my list of Gruen publications to search. My volume 3 was to be a compilation of the catalogs and early leaflets that had plates on them such as the ones in the small calendar books. It would have come in handy for this kind of ID. But, it's not to be, at least not by me

Note for authors (anyone can be an author) out there.... if someone wishes to pick up the Gruen ID Book torch, I think this compilation book of the 1929 Guild, 1918 Worthy Company, etc, would make a fine reference book for collectors. There are a lot of great resources that can be pieced together into a single book.

Thank you afire for the ID and the reminder that this document is quite important for early model IDs.

I see an opportunity to share with anyone that's interested the various ways to obtain the book and others like it....

Many readers may not know that google has made this book freely accessible via the Cincinnati Public Library system and another from Ohio State Univ. Be aware that some of these versions are missing the pricing data at the end. This is because the price list is a separate booklet that came with the Worthy Company book. You'll even find it in Google's GooglePlay bookstore

The "Google Books" entry for the Worthy Company book gives you options of having the book PRINTED and mailed to you. As a test I did this for the Worthy Company book and it turned out pretty good for a cost of $8.

All of these are tied into the WorldCat library system. I highly recommend looking into Worldcat as you can check out the original book and have it sent to your local library. It's an awesomely powerful research capability and gives you the rare opportunity to see and touch original materials.

These pictures are of the newly printed version of Worthy Company and an original copy.

Well Mike, with those pages you posted, it is then only appropriate to ask whom won this one? Its a Plate 23D.
111590876413

First time I have seen one on the swamp.
incidentally if it is a local, then you should be aware that a parts movement is listed with Dashto. Item #024.1288 I thought I had a good bid on that one. dang.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

Yeah I think that exploding 23D was a mission for someone on this forum, I cannot recall....

Where is afire?

You guys almost gave me a heart attack! It's 23A I'm obsessed with. The description in the price list references an "extra heavy hand-made 18 kt. green gold case" and the price was $230. I'm sure the 18 jewel cal. 89 has much to do with the price, but for $230 in 1918, it simply must have been an all around spectacular watch.

I was actually watching that 23D, but ended up not bidding. I probably should have taken a shot, but the dial is a bit rough for my tastes and it looks like it would be a challenge to refinish properly.

Update on the Plate 23D...
The dial cleaned up very easily to this point.
The enamel of the numerals is actually raised and will come off if one scrubbed at it. Luckily I didn't make a mess of it.
The "GRU" were already missing, unfortunately. I'm not certain if I'll re-lume or not. I'll decide when I take it in for service.

Sticking with the same era, this one was on the block last week: 171766581174

I made a go of it.

Went for a good price (for the seller) considering there are no hands with it. Anyone here pick it up? Despite the "names hidden for privacy" some of bidders IDs look familiar. Also, if any one needs spare parts for this one (not hands), I have several of these AS movements for spares. I also have staffs should it need a new one (despite the claim of working).

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

I've wondered just how often members of this forum end up bidding against each other.

More often then we likely realize. I lost an auction to afire recently. Irony is the watch is on my bench. I'm still trying to finish it but am being thwarted by a pesky canon pinion that wont seat fully.

Liz, the case was why I was going after it too. I think it is the Bascine style out-o-doors. Though Bruce's book, which shows a watch of Cary's on page 32 indicates it should have a Rebberg. However, I'm guessing this isn't always true.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton