On May 15, 1979, his mother drowned in Puget Sound, just west of Tacoma, Washington.[13] A man who had taken her out in a small boat also drowned. A Tacoma police report stated that Mary Beck "appeared to be a classic drowning victim", but a Coast Guard investigator speculated that she could have intentionally jumped overboard.[13] Beck has described his mother's death as a suicide in interviews during television and radio broadcasts

11 comments:

I lived in Utah for 2+ years, and I learned a lot about Mormons. They have many conferences to discuss Mormon research/beliefs in Salt Lake. Ironically, they are very much like the Catholics. Their Church leaders make statements every few years that they are trying to interpret the will of God, and that they may be wrong.

And like Catholics, some Church-members understand this fallibility, while most members take the Church writings literally, and treat the opinions of Church leaders as “gospel”.

If we judge Mormonism by observing Glenn Beck, we can see the Mormon failure to communicate the humility that is inherent in the religion. Instead, many of their members try to impose their interpretation of God’s values. What can Catholics learn from this?

Tony D, the Catholic Church has a magisterium, which has a divine mandate and divine assistance to teach in Christ's name. Mormons have nothing even remotely analogous. Authentic exercises of the magisterium are more than mere attempts to interpret the will of God: they are, in their most definitive expressions, declarations of what the will of God is. Infallible teachings of the magisterium, such as against women's ordination, against same-s@x unions, against contraception, are declarations of God's will, and Catholics are obligated to assent to them in faith because those teachings have God as their author. Lesser exercises of magisterial authority are still to be considered true by Catholics, and Catholics are obliged to give such teachings religious submission of intellect and will. Magisterial teachings are not mere "opinions", as you ignorantly state.

God may provide assistance at any time. Or not. His assistance is His to provide or withhold. Defining a God that conforms to our beliefs and interpretations is creating a “false god” – a product of our own logic.

TonyD, the more you post on this site, the less Catholic and the more ignorant you reveal yourself to be. In Matthew 16:18-19 Christ gave Peter the keys to the kingdom and the power to bind and loose. That is neither a false god nor faulty logic. It's right there in Scripture, God's Word. God has revealed himself to us through Scripture; we don't have to make him up. If you try a tortured attempt to interpret your way out of that verse's meaning vis-a-vis the magisterium, then you're showing yourself to be a Protestant.

Let me try to follow your logic - Christ gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Therefore…the Catholic Church’s Magisterium is authentic, has a divine mandate, gets divine assistance, and correctly interprets the will of God to teach in Christ’s name.

Since we’re discussing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, let me add a few observations from my time in Utah.

The LDS (Mormons) have a prophet – Joseph Smith – who cannot be dismissed if you carefully read his actual writings. Like all prophets, he spoke to a particular people at a particular time – and the judgments he shared reflect that context. Like all Prophets, he was quite clear that he was both a Prophet and “man” – he smoke and drank. So those who attack his shortcomings only reflect their own misunderstanding of Prophets.

As I was gradually able to separate the interpretations and misunderstandings from the underlying values, I came to discover that both Mormonism and Catholicism reflect aspects of God’s values – but it can be impossible to discern that from the statements of its leaders, actions of its members, and sometimes even the writings of its Prophets.

I am not saying that Catholics should become Mormon or that Mormons should become Catholic. But those who dismiss other Churches take a greater risk than they realize.

If anything, becoming able to recognize God’s values in other Churches adds meaning to Catholicism.

I have just had 2 out of 3 posts censured at Gloria.tv for protesting a Fox TV video and 2 comments on Hispanics. The persecution of Hispanics by some Catholics is dividing the Catholic Church. I haven't paid much attention to Glenn Beck but isn't he driving much of this?

TonyD, I haven't read everything in this thread, but I judge Mormonism on its own merits. However, from the perspective of Catholicism, Glenn Beck is an apostate, period. It's an unpopular teaching of the Church, and mostly only found in reverse these days (i.e., the Catechism lists the conditions under which a person may not be actually guilty of apostasy, heresy or schism, but doesn't really list the conditions under which they are, but those are covered by previous Councils).

Tony D, it is quite ironic and sad that you reject the Magisterium of the Church but exalt your own private judgment. You said, "I came to discover that both Mormonism and Catholicism reflect aspects of God’s values – but it can be impossible to discern that from the statements of its leaders, actions of its members, and sometimes even the writings of its Prophets." So, the magiterium of Tony D discerns God's values from wherever he wants and then critiques the Magisterial teaching of one Church founded by Jesus Christ! You are not Catholic. You are a lover of your own perverse persuasions. Simple Catholic facts: Christ established one Church with one visible head on earth = Peter and his successors; Christ said to Peter and the Apostles "who hears you hears me;" Christ promised to the apostles the Spirit of truth to guide them to truth and we see them passing on that Spirit by the laying on of hands; finally, the guarantee of truth comes from faithfully passing on what has always been held (paradosis). Certainly, not every word of bishops and the pope are equivalent, but when they reaffirm truths affirmed in every age, they speak infallibly. I could go on and on, but you should have learned these things if you were a Catholic. Instead, you dare to call a patent material heretic apostate, Smith, a prophet. Maybe in the church of Tony D, but not in Christ's Church.

About Me

I am not a Jesuit, nor am I a cleric. I spent about 5 years under the spiritual direction of a Jesuit, 3 of those years in a weekly directed retreat in everyday life. The profound impact that the Society and the Excercises had upon my life, resulted in me, trying to deal with that impact in some way by sharing my view of Jesus Christ with others. My intention is to pull together Jesuitical and Catholic subjects that interest me. I was born on the feast day of St. Paul Miki, S.J.. I am the father of three small children and an infant, I am married to a great wife.