Episode 404: Indifference-Recap

by Brian HuntingtonNovember 3rd, 2013

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Ok so last week we learned (after some quick detective work from Rick) that Carol had burned the early flu victims. Tyreese, Daryl, Michonne, and Bob ran (literally) into a herd and had to ditch their car but they all survived.

As this week’s episode starts, Daryl’s group is now on foot, heading to the veterinary school/clinic for drugs. Daryl picks up some jasper for someone back at the prison. Michonne gets a little flirty and then asks if he knows all of them at the prison. He says that’s what happens when you stick around.

The group finds a car but the battery’s dead, so they head to an overgrown gas station. As they cut through the overgrowth, walkers burst through. They emerge unscathed but not before we see Tyreese behaving dangerously, not willing to let go of a walker that’s attacking him so that Michonne can kill it. Michonne lectures him on handling his anger and he turns on her and accuses her of the same thing. Surprisingly, she claims she’s not angry anymore and she doesn’t know why she’s still hunting the Governor.

When Daryl and Bob check out the inside of the gas station they see that the people inside tried to kill themselves. Daryl thinks they gave up, Bob feels pity.

Bob tells Daryl about his alcoholism. He also says that what happened at the store in the first episode was his fault. Daryl says it’s bullshit. He says he and Sasha picked the store. “No one stands alone, not anymore.”

After fixing the car, the group gets into the school/clinic. Michonne watches as Bob stuffs something into bag. The group then finds a large supply of medicine and they stock up. Before they can leave the building they’re attacked by walkers. They’re forced to exit through a window. Bob nearly falls when a walker grabs his backpack and he refuses to let go.

After putting the whole group in jeopardy we see that the reason he refused to let go was that he had found a bottle of booze. There were no meds in his bag, just the booze. Daryl is PISSED. “You take one sip before those meds get in our people and I will BEAT your ass. You hear me?” Bob shamefully puts the bottle back in his bag and they leave.

As they get back in the car, Michonne tells Daryl that she doesn’t need to hunt for the Governor anymore.

MEANWHILE

Carol is about to go on a supply run with Rick for food and whatever else they can find. She tells Lizzy that she’s leaving, and Lizzy seems a little… emotionless and pessimistic.

As Rick and Carol drive Carol defends her actions as partly merciful, partly defensive, but I’m not sure Rick is totally behind her.

They get to a house and find a young couple who have been trapped in a bathroom by a walker for two days. The couple is nice enough but they seem naive and ill-prepared for the situation. Carol fixes the young man’s dislocated shoulder. We learn that the girl had a badly broken ankle from the early days of the outbreak that was never set right.

Rick gives them the test, and he’s willing to let them come back but he warns them that there’s a risk of infection at the prison. The couple offers to help scour the neighborhood. Rick wants them to just wait at the house because they’re both injured, but they insist on helping. Rick relents.

As Rick and Carol search a house for medicine, they discuss morality, the couple, Carol’s murders, and Rick’s leadership. Carol says that her actions weren’t any different than Rick’s when he killed Shane.

As they go back to the car, they see that the girl they just met has been attacked and killed by walkers (and is currently being devoured). Carol barely reacts, “We should get back.”

They wait at the house for the boyfriend to get back, but Carol says they have to go. He might be alive but it doesn’t matter. We’ve seen multiple times this episode that Carol’s decisions have become 100% logical, with almost no emotion.

As they pack up, Rick talks to Carol about what she did. “They might have lived. Karen and David. They might have lived and now they’re dead. That wasn’t your decision to make.” Rick says that the group won’t understand, that Tyreese will kill her. He says if it were him and his children, he wouldn’t trust her around them. She defends herself as it becomes clear that Rick is telling her that he’s not taking her back to the prison.

They pack a car for Carol and go their separate ways.

Did Rick make the right choice telling Carol to leave?

Will we see Carol again? What’s going to happen to her?

Would you let Bob stay with the group after what he did?

This week’s title was “Indifference.” This could apply to Tyreese, Michonne, Carol, etc. Discuss.

Person with the best comment this week gets a shirt! (I picked a winner: Ricardo Colombo, who had a great post on Rick testing Carol.)

Last week’s winner: Dani, who mentions two things I like: 1) Keep your eyes on the road. A few people said this but I think Dani said it first. I first came across this concept in The Stand. You never know when you’ll come across an abandoned vehicle in the middle of the road and in the apocalypse, a broken bone can be fatal. 2) What IS up with that herd? What attracted them there…

I think that it should have brought back to the prison for a decison and thats not the last we will see of Carol. I think carol will find another group or a secure place but I think she will come back for those girls.

About Carl killing the guy at the end of last season, he was justified. If you remember he told the guy to drop the shotgun he was caring more than once, and the way he was holding it made it possible for him to still fire it from that position, so BRAVO to Carl.

I don’t think Rick did the right thing. Rick should have realized that he was discarding Carol in the same way that he “thinks” that she discarded Karen and the other person. Carol was trying to do the right thing for everyone. Carol also said that they were suffering – they were suffocating on their own blood. At that moment, there was no medicine. Carol did the right thing in that moment. At the same time though, Carol is also able to help people as she did when she fixed the boy’s dislocation shoulder. Overall though, Carol may need some help in remembering her humanity and not be so “indifferent” – therefore, Rick should not have banned her from the group. I feel so sad for her – she has had so many hurts in her life and the one time she tried to be strong and make decisions she was dealt the ultimate blow.

Carol said they were suffering and choking on their own blood, but at the very beginning, we see Rick as he re examines the scene in an attempt to understand what Carol’s actions were. Unless what we saw was something else, it would seem Carol came in while Karen was sick and resting, rolled her over, and took out the brain. I didn’t see her coughing up blood or choking. So even though she had a perfectly good reason for her actions, she jumped the gun on it. That is why they set up the council. To address the hard decisions.

I really agree with feeling bad for Carol. She has had the toughest road of maybe anyone, before and after apocalypse. It was so sad seeing her driving off alone. Rick has stated many times if he lost Carl, he would lose it. Carol lost Sophia in the worst way. Never knowing what happened. Seeing her come out of a barn as a walker. She has to come back!

I didn’t like the way she blamed Rick for her daughter’s disappearance or for returning to the cars after they were out all day looking for her. Why didn’t she go and look for herself? Had it been me and my child was missing no one would have been able to hold me back.

I don’t think Rick did the right thing with Carol. I feel that Rick should have brought Carol back to the prison and have a discussion with the group instead of assuming that the group would not want Carol to stay there. I see why Carol did what she did, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. She did what she thought was best for the group, and what was best was sacrificing a couple of people to try and save the rest of the group.

To what Rick will say about Carol, He’s gonna say nothing until he knows the out come of the infected people. If they die he is gonna feel like crap. On the other hand if they recover, then Rick will say what happen with Carol and she had taken two lives.

I think throwing people away in a post Apocalyptic society based on the rules of the old world isn’t smart. Carol is too useful to the group to discard. I suspect she will be back. Rick is losing it, and the group needs Carol — they’d have a better chance of survival under her leadership. Same with Bob. Who among us wouldn’t want a drink with this kind of shit going on. LOL

Rick seems to be looking in the rearview mirror to see if Carol is following him, but she drove off first. What if Carol gets back to the prison before Rick and tells them a different story; Rick did it, not me.

Rick was saving Carol by making her leave. He told her once Ty found out she did it, Ty would kill her.
I think they all need to leave the prison and find a new place to live. Get away from the virus and bad memories.

I just can’t believe that jerk BOB twice put the group at risk for booze! Right after admitting dude was killed because he grabbed a bottle and slammed it down collapsing the shelf, then he goes and hold onto this bag for dear life (with us all thinking its full of medicine) only because it had a bottle of liquor! BOB has got to go!

You know, that’s what we’ve thought all along, right? But, why haven’t they hooked up yet? I wonder if Daryl really does have feelings for Carol. I would think that he would have acted on those feelings by now – especially during the time when things were rather calm at the prison. It’s obvious that Carol has feelings for Daryl so I think he would have approached her by now. I’m wondering if perhaps Daryl may have feelings for Michonne and that’s why he hasn’t pursued Carol. I’m not sure how he’s going to react when Rick tells everyone what he did though. I believe that Daryl is very loyal to Rick so I don’t know how that will play out. Guess we’ll have to wait till next Sunday? 🙂

The title Indifference is a reference to how the group will feel toward Carol’s dismissal at Rick ‘s behest. Who is Rick? Carol is a council member. The majority of the group, however diminished, does not know Rick as the leader. How will Daryl feel about it? He and Carol were close, and after his bad day with Bob and the walkers in the Vet hospital, it could get more tense.

I feel like I could discuss Tyrese and his anger/depression, or Michonne and her obsession with the Governor. But Tyrese has had a rough go of things, so that explains itself, and as for Michonne, she was the one who knew what the Governor was from the start, she knows he is a man who will not let up, so she is constantly on her guard. But this episode was more about Carol’s disconnect.

She has no emotion anymore. She rolls Karen over like I said before, stabbed the brain, and burnt the body in hopes of keeping the infection out. She takes it all as her liberty, as her duty. She does not notify anyone, does not convene with the council. If she was a part of this society, she wouldn’t feel like she was Supreme council,, which is the way she acts. Now, she doesn’t even pity those that can’t help themselves, as we see with Sam and Ana. Even her daughter, Sophia, is a distant memory to her. She says it herself, she’s someone else now. She’s something else now. And it scares Rick to the point he wants her gone. And as he drives away, it would seem this may be the hardest choice he has had to make.

I was going to edit my post, but seeing as I am just adding to my original thoughts, I’d like them to be seperate since I normally only post after watching the episode a second time. This is after the 2nd viewing. In the beginning, we see Rick wrapping his hand from the altercation with Tyrese, then re examining the crime scene. We see what one would assume as Rick’s perception of Carol’s acts, if not the actual acts themselves. Notice that Karen is still alive and breathing. This makes Carol’s act atrocious. I understand why she did it. I admit, I would do it also, but not before consulting those involved. Tyrese, the council, Rick. I would want consultation on my loved one, we all would. So it’s not to say that Carol was wrong in her acts, as to how she went about it. And that is why Rick eventually asks her to leave. How can you trust someone like that? Had Rick not made the discovery, or asked Carol, she would have never admitted it. And I am willing to bet had it not been Rick, had it been anyone else, she might have denied it. But she knows the things Rick has done, and it’s funny, because Rick admitted to them out loud to the group. He even told the group he killed Shane. Not immediately after, no, because the farm was ransacked by a herd and no time then, but shortly after. Though the episode we see Carol and Rick exchange dialogue, mainly Carol. She keeps trying to convince Rick of what she did and why, but it is ultimately to late. He knows the fear from being dishonest, or at least not consulting, which is what the council is intended for by the way. And with Carol being on it. It’s corrupt politics. He doesn’t even converse that much to her reasons. They even come across two more survivors. They ask the 3 questions and give them the okay, but instead of rescue, they make them earn their keep. It’s only done because Carol feels people are expendable at the best interest of the group. Rick understands you can’t have that kind of thinking. That no one is expendable at the best interest of the group. I believe Rick is only leaving Carol behind as her penance. Carol’s new family is that group, and she shouldn’t go to far. The best interest of the group is to send Carol away. If he bring her back, well, she’s dead. We know Tyrese would kill her almost instantly, especially with the mindset we see him in these past few episodes. Angry, shocked, depressed, in denial. He claims that everyone is dead, no reason to push on. At least now Rick can get things settled without having to get physical. But right now, things are to hot, and he can’t have a hot coal around when he’s trying to put out fires. And it’s easier to get rid of the one that started the fire, even if it’s one of the ones who’s been keeping ya warm the whole time. You can’t let it get out of control.

I can’t help it. I love this show, and can’t help but rewatch the current episodes again and again. After a third time, I gotta point out Carol’s delusion. At the beginning, her conversation with Lizzy. Go back and listen again, very closely. Carol comes to see Lizzy before she goes on the run with Rick. They discuss a few things, Daryl and the mess group, her and Rick’s plans. Mainly, Lizzy points out that no one has died yet. She points out to Carol that she expects a lot of people to die, that it always happens. She says it makes her sad, but at least they get to “comeback”. Carol states that when they comeback they aren’t who they were. Lizzy points out that they are something, someone. Lizzy says that she’s little now, if she doesn’t die, she will get big. She will be herself, but different, it’s how it is. That we all change, that we all don’t get to stay the same as we started. Carol states that it’s more complicated, but Lizzy interrupts. She reminds Carol that she told her she was weak, but that she’s not weak, she’s strong. So she’s telling Carol what she thinks. Carol ask Lizzy if she remembers what to do in case of danger, and to remember it’s okay to kill if it’s her or Meeka’s life. Carol admits Lizzy it’s strong, and tells her she will live and that the three of them will survive. She asks if Lizzy has her knife and this when when Lizzy says yes Mom. Carol gets cold and says don’t call me Mom. Then Carol ask Lizzy what’s wrong and Lizzy admits she’s not afraid to kill, just afraid. Carol tells her that you can’t be. That you have to fight, and fight it. You don’t give up, and one day you just change, we all change.

I’d like to diagnose their conversation. Carol disagrees that the walkers are similar to survivors. Lizzy obviously disagrees. I was on Carols side, until now. Carol believes that walkers turn, and become these dead, moving things that only purpose is to devour live meat. Lizzy points out that they used to be someone, that they have just changed. And it’s true, because everyone was someone before. But this is a new breed of human race. Like mutants, vampires, or any other sci-fy creature you can think of. And of course, they reproduce by our demise, so it’s a vicious cycle. Lizzy points out that one day if she doesn’t die, she will change too, but she will still be herself. Carol of course veers off subject for a minute to make sure Lizzy remembers her training. But then they get back to the subject of change when Carol points out that you fight fear and keep fighting it until you change. I would have to say Carol has delusioned herself into thinking that the two things are different. We know that it is inevitable, eventually you will turn unless your brains get splattered in some form. The best thing you can do in society is try to evolve, to adapt to her conditions and surroundings. Humanity only dies if we let it. A hospital is not humanity, a grocery store is not humanity. Those things are civilization. And civilizations can be rebuilt as long as there is humanity to rebuild them. Carol lost all humanity when she took the actions she did, and primarily because there was no discussion before hand. And with Rick trying to keep some semblance of civilization going, he couldn’t stand for it. With civilization a thing of the past and only a work in progress, the question is how will everyone else feel, and especially after the week that they have had all together. Gonna be a doozy.

Sorry, maybe it’s too much, but I gotta go one more time. Did ya notice a couple things? One, Carol keeps the gas can that she used to set Karen and David on fire, Rick gets rid of it and let’s her have it as her cross to bear, her penance. Two, why didn’t Sam or Ana, mainly Ana whom we see has dropped her fruit to run, but ends up getting eaten? I mean, Rick and Carol were just around the corner and she had the gun for a reason.

On my side note, ya gotta love Daryl when Bob reaches for that gun. The badass in him stands out big time as he gets in Bob’s face without a single word like, Oh Hellllll No!!!

Good thoughts! May I add:
1. Because Ana was kinda flakey, that’s why she didn’t fire the gun. She probably didn’t realize she was in trouble until it was too late.
2. The WORST thing about Carol’s actions, and what put’s me in the “I don’t like Carol anymore” club, is not only that she didn’t tell anyone, but that she WOULDN’T tell anyone. That’s because, in her mind, all her decisions are right, and others, being too naïve and sensitive, “wouldn’t understand.” Is that not the definition of arrogance? You bet, and I wouldn’t trust her either.

Possibly, but with the location of the fruit, the leg, and eventually her body, it would seem she dropped her basket and started hobbling away towards the gate. That signifies she knew she was in trouble. Shaky, definitely, which may have led her to forget the gun in her fear, but still, we don’t see Sam again. And unless he happens to reappear, one would assume he died, in trouble without a shot fired. Both of them I don’t find very likely. But again, Sam is speculation. As is Ana, but at least with her we can deduce that she should have had the chance to fire a warning shot. At least a round or two in defense.

I agree, I’m not very big on Carol right now either. Yes, very arrogant. But it also would seem she’s still trying to convince herself her actions were just. Rick makes one statement, and Carol talks and talks to justify what she did, as Rick just listens. It would seem she is trying to convince Rick the same way she justified it to herself. She kept telling herself these things so that eventually it was all there was. Had the roles been reversed, and Tyrese took out Daryl because he was infected in order to protect the group, Carol would have flipped her lid. She would have looked for and demanded treatment. But it wasn’t Daryl, so Carol doesn’t see it any other way but protecting those she cares about, not the entire group.

Seems dichotomous. If Carol truly thinks she is right, then why didn’t she admit what she did to the group instead of hiding it away? If she was truly arrogant, she should have monopolized the council meetings and made herself in charge of the group. If she believed in her actions, she would have been able to sway the group into following her advice.

What does her lying mean? That she didn’t really believe in her decisions, but she was willing to take the risk? That she was afraid of everyone, and I mean EVERYONE at the prison… in that, she couldn’t reveal to them what her intentions were? Teaching kids to use weapons, killing people, unclogging the hose when it could wait, and trying to force Lizzie to kill her father… does anyone at the prison even know about THAT?

I find it very interesting that Carol stated she could “handle Tyreese”. Yet, Carol didn’t want Rick finding out about the knife class. Seems the only one Carol was in genuine fear of was Rick, but then why does she ask him not to tell the rest of the group? Is it that she was in fear of Rick, but since he didn’t gun her down immediately and he saved her from the walker which tumbled down the stairs, does she then see him as weak and ineffectual? She does become arrogant and dismissive of Rick soon after.

And now that Carol is off on the road, will she run into Daryl’s group first? Daryl’s group is taking a circuitous route to avoid the horde of walkers. Which way is Carol heading? Rick is definitely driving straight to the prison. If Carol and Daryl meet, will she continue to lie? Will she fabricate a story as to why she and Rick aren’t together? Could she conspire with Daryl et. al. to kill Rick?

I much prefer Carol’s banishment to her being incarcerated and tried, it offers much more drama and interesting character interactions.

Hey, maybe when Rick gets back and tells the group about Carol, Carl becomes very upset and admits the he is the one who killed them and that Carol knew about it and took the blame for him. Rick, now feeling guilty, goes out with Daryl to find her and bring her back. Tyreese will….well….I don’t know.. I haven’t figured that out yet. Maybe Tyreese will calm down and view the murders from a zombie-world perspective and not from a pre-zombie-world perspective. I just can’t accept that Rick would abandon Carol without consulting the rest of the group.

Broke college student posting in need of a free shirt. Love the show. I’m 1087.3 miles away from home and I still watch with friends over Skype it’s tradition at this point an I can’t imagine what I would do on a Sunday night without this show. Thanks TTYNS

This episode is, clearly, about Carol, and the title, Indifference, is
obviously an allusion to her state of mind. However, although she may
appear cold and lacking sympathy, as evidenced by her attitude toward
the death of Ana and her unwillingness to stay and look for Sam, I
believe she is deeply concerned about the well being of those in the
prison. Yes, she is cold towards Sam and Ana, and I’m sure she did not
want them to join the group, knew they were
injured and unprepared to face walkers, and let them help, knowing they
would most likely be killed. ,Yes, Carol has distanced herself from her
emotions. Her coldness is a defense mechanism. We see this in Beth,
also, particularly when Beth refused to say goodbye to Zack, just before
he leaves on the supply run where he is killed.

Carol’s
actions may be construed as indifference, but they belie the fact that
she has a deep concern for the members of their group. She is willing to
go to extremes to protect them, making difficult decisions based solely
on logic. .I, for one, am going to miss her, and I hope she is woven
into the story line in some way.

Good point. They can’t cut Dale up and use him for bait, since he had died already on the TV show. Carol could be used like that. The show’s writers have a history of using plot ideas from the comic, but substituting characters.

“We see this in Beth, also, particularly when Beth refused to say goodbye
to Zack, just before he left on the supply run where he was killed,
and her unemotional reaction to the news of his death.”

I see Beth’s refusal to say goodbye as her being optimistic and hopeful… “nothing’s gonna happen to him, everything will be okay”. Her reaction afterward, well, I saw that as emotional shock… maybe even denial. It’s hard to accept someone is actually dead unless you see the body yourself.

i don’t see Carol joining up with Governor but at the same time is a huge possibility. Carol has never actually seen the governor so she could join him and his group with out even knowing that she joined enemy side.

i don’t see Carol joining up
with Governor but at the same time is a huge possibility. Carol has
never actually seen the governor so she could join him and his group
with out even knowing that she joined enemy side.

my fav. moment of the night was when Daryl got up in the alcoholic’s face “like what!” and delivered the most intense bro-face off in the history of television. Aside from that I wasn’t overly thrilled to be honest. I’m not a fan of the Carol plot taking this weird exile left turn. I dont think it resolves anything or adds anything to the story by having her go that way.

I see Carols point on why she killed them but I see Rick”s too. Carol thought she was protecting the group but she could have just locked them in their cells. Not only did she kill thm but burned thm & thy bury their own so she didn’t consider them as one of their own anymore? In order to survive as a human u must have some humanity left. Does she still have it?

I understand why Carol did what she did, even though she failed to make a more humane decision, she had good intentions. But I also understand why Rick handled it the way he did. Just not sure as to why he wouldn’t discuss his plans with at least one other person (Hershell). I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Carol. I can see her showing up when Rick needs her.

Bob needs to stay. They need all the medically inclined people they can come across, especially if this flu takes out Doc Stevens. He just doesn’t need to go on any more runs any time soon. Put him out in the garden to take Rick’s place so Rick can take Carol’s on the committee.

Tyreese is just burning off some steam. The man’s been a teddy bear for too long. If I were any of the crew, I’d just give him some space & let him do his thing.

I don’t like the “new” Michonne. That katana ain’t half as cool without the attitude to go with it. Sorry, that’s just me!

There were several story lines within this story that reflect indifference, but the big indifference was Carol’s. It’s more shocking in her because we’ve seen her struggles from the beginning. We have watched her have nuturing moments and now she has completely turned stone cold in a way that’s scary to Rick. I think Rick took Carol on the supply run with the idea of making up his mind about what to do at some point. Once Carol should no reaction when they found Ana’s body being devoured, that’s when he made his decision that he couldn’t trust her anymore. It’s a valid point. I like Carol and I think at some level Rick still does too, but he has to think about his family.

I don’t see why Bob would need to be banned from the group. Perhaps he should be given another role – give him something else to do instead of going on runs. Since alcohol counseling is in short supply maybe Bob should be guided to do more around prison – perhaps helping with the sick since he has medical training? Keep him busy in a way that will build his self-esteem and to keep his mind off of drinking? Those are just some desperate attempts to at least try to do something positive for him instead of just getting rid of him. Same with Carol – I don’t see why Rick let her go. This is all starting to have a “Of Mice and Men” feel to it – – – Let’s just eliminate those who are deemed dangerous or worthless. In addition, Rick knew all along what he was going to do and that’s why he asked her to go on a run. Perhaps Rick is showing some indifference, too?

That’s a really good point! Herschel would be a very good mentor for Bob. Herschel is also smart enough to be able to provide counseling for Bob, too. However, no two alcoholics are alike and we can’t predict who will be successful at staying dry and who won’t. There are so many unknown variables that we also can’t generalize. Just because Herschel beat it doesn’t mean Bob will. Herschel should definitely try to help Bob, though. I also think the group should do a run at the library. They need get books on how to live off the land, etc. They could make all kinds of things from soap to solar panels. Snatch up all of the Mother Earth News Magazines! lol… Every little bit helps. They should also be getting books on medical procedures, disease, and even counseling and psychology books. 🙂

we talk about this every Monday morning at the office, so first off I will say that this episode is foreshadowing events to come, i will begin with the biggest ? of the episode, which is Rick’s Decision in letting Carol leave, was it right? on a personal level yes absolutely if she is going to just kill people who might have a chance, and basically have no emotion towards it, i can completely as a parent understand this, however Rick has made it clear he wants NO parts of leadership so that decision was NOT his to make alone. leave it to the population to decide, though in a way he was also saving her from Tyreese. still don’t 100% agree with it i don’t think this is the last we will see of her no way being that she is a central Character in the original group. Next Question would i let Bob stay? well i see it almost as i have seen Merle in the past, selfish, and dangerous due to his affliction, he can be helpful but look at the two decisions he has made in the first episode and in this one…he’s too much of a risk, you almost have to babysit him, which most alcoholics need.

Carol was right to bring up the fact that Rick killed Shane. Although I feel it was inevitable considering the way Shane was acting, Rick didn’t NEED to kill Shane at that moment and it was more of a selfish act than one to preserve the group, Shane could have been offered exile – but Rick killed him because he was a threat to Rick and his family as well as a threat to his leadership. Let’s also not forget about Rick’s part in killing Dave and Tony in season 2 and then he saves Randall but turns around and sentences him to death (with the approval of most of the group). How are these deaths all that different from Carol killing Karen and David, other that the fact that they were group members and Dave and Tony were not?

Carol killed Karen and David in an effort to protect the group from the spread of the illness, not because of a personal rivalry with either of them. From what little she knew of the illness at the time she assumed they were going to die anyways and that this was her best chance to end the epidemic. I don’t believe she did the RIGHT thing but she did what she felt was NECESSARY. Rick should’ve brought her back for judgement by the council, not left her there to fend for herself.

Tyreese would’ve tried to kill Carol, but I think she actually could’ve ended up winning that fight. I just wonder what Daryl is going to do when he finds out that Carol is gone.

I have recently become addicted to the show and enjoy the ethical dilemmas that are presented each week. In my opinion I believe Carol should have been banished from the group, eventually. Not by Rick alone. Rick correctly abdicated his dictatorship to the council and should have followed his own lead. But Carols actions were inexcusable. No one knows if they were to survive or not and she robbed them of a chance to recover. that’s not fair. Her actions shows that she is willing to go rogue to justify her sense of self righteousness. That cant happen. I appreciate what she brings to the group but we all must be in line. Their humanity is being questioned each day. But to lose their own only means you give up.

As for Bob. I will only offer empathy for his alcoholism. I believe he and Herschul will talk and possibly bond. I just don’t see him adding much as a physical force against the walkers. I see his future in providing health care and insight. I am rooting for him but stunts like that on Sunday does not fit. But it also opens a door into each characters inner demons.

Darryl and Mechonne are going to get it on. I think there is some chemistry there. Watch out. Plus her smile absolutely lit up the TV.

Tyreece is a beast but the show needs him. He brings a counterbalance and certain tension that is good. He seems to like the moral center and he is a good negotiator. I know he took the L when he had the row with Rick. But would you really go against Tyreece.

At this juncture I would like to see a new character introduced into the mix. Someone who can possibly fix a few things and make life just a tad bit more livable. I also question why they dont have more cars. They need them. I would like to see more runs. The runs offers opportunities for people to see through the window of the characters soul. I am waiting to see Mechonnes back story.

The Governor story is dead to me now. He will be back but now he is ancient history.

It was good that she is giving up the search. Personally its a closed chapter

I hear there will be a Walking Dead spinoff. Since Daryl is not a part of the actual comic book series, I’m thinking he will leave the group to look for Carol thus opening up the segue for the spinoff series.

Carol has come a long way since being abused by her Husband & then losing her Precious Daughter Sofia. She has become very Strong, not only for herself but for the rest of the Group. Everyone in the group has done something that they thought was right to Protect the rest of the Group. I believe that they need Carol, & she will be Back.

The supply run was Rick’s opportunity to test Carol. Just like the three questions he asks strangers, there were three tests and she failed all of them.

When talking about the act itself, she only attempted to justify herself. Two things that stood out to me was the obvious: comparing this to Rick’s standoff with Shane, and the subtle: “I can handle Tyreese.” when Rick mentioned that he would want revenge on her. Coming from someone who calculatingly executed two sick people, that’s a pretty ominous statement.

When talking about their loved ones, and the memories of them, she couldn’t even say Sophia’s name. When Rick questioned this, she was unemotional and just said she was dead.

When she agreed that the helpless couple should help scavenge despite Rick’s protests, knowing that they couldn’t survive an encounter on their own, and not batting an eye when they found the girl getting tore up.

There will obviously be ramifications when the camp finds out what happened. But, looking at the fact that this group draws from the power of family (blood and extended) to survive and stay relatively sane, I think Rick made the right decision.

What if Carol get more bitter about having to leave , if there is a
big gap of her being on the run , I feel she could show up with The Governor!
She could be like another Andrea . ? Never know , every episode Im waiting for more hints to when he will show up .

I’m so tired of seeing Tyreese’s big ass blubbering all the time. It’s the zombie apocalypse–man up! As for Tyreese killing Carol, what kind of leader is Rick if he can’t defend her against that pussy ? Tyreese is the LEAST of Rick’s worries; when Daryl finds out that Rick has banished Carol he will have to face the wrath of Daryl, and Daryl is a true bad ass!!!

I just read all the comments and first off Ricks killing of Shane was justified, Shane was going to kill Rick, that’s why Shane took Rick out to the woods, go back and watch. Carol (not CARL) killed those two people in cold blood and they were not a direct threat to her or anyone they were quarantined. When they were talking to those two young survivors she mentioned one of her daughters was sick, so am I to believe she would stick a knife in Lizzie’s head like she did Karen I don’t think so

which one of the survivors hasn’t killed ‘people’ thinking they were doing it for the rest of the group. Carl gunned a young man down in, what Hershel calls, “In Cold Blood. How is that different. Carl did what he felt was right and Carol did the same. These people are their family and they will do anything to protect them. Neither Carl nor Carol did anything wrong.

I don’t agree with Rick’s decision. Carol was doing what she felt best for the group…sacrificing the few for the good of the masses. At the time that she made the decision to kill the, it was clear that whatever the disease was, it was fatal. I believe at theoint on their illness that she killed them, their turning into Walkers was inevitable. Furthermore, Carol has been an integral, valuable and productive member of the group. And more than that..part of their family. I absolutely think that Rick’s decision to abandon Carol is going to be one he lives to regret. As for Bob….I think that he should stay with the group. At least for now. It’s all about humanity. What good is it for humans to survive and thrive if they lose their compassion and humanity to one another. So until Bob does harm to the group, or causes a threat, I say give him some time.

I feel that as a group everyone has had there share with the lack of interest, concern, or sympathy. This world is cruel and merciless. How could anyone be asked to always be able to choose the right choices. Rick did the same thing last season with the hitchhiker when Michonne and Carl and him drove right by him twice. When the dead start walking sometimes being indifferent might be the only thing that keeps you sane.

I feel that as a group everyone has had there share with the lack of interest, concern, or sympathy. This world is cruel and merciless. How could anyone be asked to always be able to choose the right choices. Rick did the same thing last season with the hitchhiker when Michonne and Carl and him drove right by him twice. When the dead start walking sometimes being indifferent might be the only thing that keeps you sane.

This is so true, Rick did do that, and his son did appear to shoot that kid down, I still have this niggling feeling that Carol is covering for someone, or thinks she is anyways, and remember someone is feeding the walkers. I think there will be more murders inside the prison. I said a while back I could see Carol going off and starting her own group ( maybe a group of warrior kids?)

It has been said already, but I also think Rick was trying to save Carol from Tyrese and from his family. But what happens when he gets back to face everyone? He will have to tell them what she did. And antibiotics don’t help the flu, they are for infection -Tamiflu, Relenza antivirals people! Although they might be too far gone for any medications to help. I would like to look at their list of medications to see what they actually are looking for.
Poor Stookey, I like him from the novels so I am still pulling for him and hoping he finds Carol and they team up.

Rick absolutely messed this one up!!!!! Banishing Carol was the exact opposite of what should have happened….. Now, Darrly will feel betrayed and leave to go find Carol take his followers with him. Rick will be left with whats left……the Prision is about to be overrun with walkers, skin eaters etc…….Rick is the one that told group to think for them selves he was not their govenor now that carol is stepping up not being the little meek afraid abused woman, he cant handle it. Rick “I dont want to be in charge but i dont want you there either.

The tension between Daryl and tyreese was a precursor for the two clearly opposing sides and interest now created by rick exiling carol. I don’t believe Daryl will accept carol leaving. A lot of ?’s could’ve been answered by keeping Julie alive but quarantined. Is it fatal for everyone? How long will it take to kill? What are the progressive symptoms other than bleeding? Etc. however I do not believe Rick was right for acting alone just as carol herself did. That in itself may breech the same amount of trust lost by carols actions, he did not kill her but sending her alone is close enough. Ultimately two poor decisions were made by two people who should’ve spoken before acting. Carol knew if she asked the answer would be no which is what makes it so much worse.

i only have one questions, if the dead are taking over the world exception being this small group which is going to be mankinds saviours, then where do the new kias come from? or have the dead become cheap labor.

Hey…
Good one Linda, I think you may be on to something!!!!
I was surprised at Rick for not letting Carol return…to the prison she
helped make livable, to the other survivors she helped & gave assistance, to the group
who she has risked her own life time & time again to protect & save!
I think that in a Zombie apocalypse world, Carol had evolved, in a good way!
She went from a broken beaten victim of an abusive husband & most likely sheltered
life, to a strong, capable, worthy, skilled woman! Carol is never gonna let another man
ever abuse her, or take advantage of her! She has come full circle!
Not saying Sophia’s name? Just maybe that is another way Carol has grown stronger.
Maybe that’s how she deals with the loss of her girl, in the capable, no nonsense way
she deals with everything else. She can cry over the loss of Sophie on her own time.
Just like Carl does what needs to be done, I think Carol really thought she could stave off the virus by getting rid of the two & burning their bodies, as a proactive defence of the group.
Their world has been chewed up & regurgitated into a living nightmare. The new world they are trying to live in calls for what used to be drastic measures, but are now savy survival skills. For example, Carol teaching knife skills to the youngsters. One of many survival skills they will need if they hope to ever become adults. Suddenly I before E except after C, pales in comparison to make sure to stick the knife in the walkers head.
I think Rick has made a mistake. By now he should trust Carol, and let her in on making the hard decisions, to spread the workload so to speak, amongst those who have proven capable, and if not mature by old standards, Wise in the ways of Walkers.
I do hope Carol returns, for the sake of the kids, & for the sake of the group.
Going with Linda’s brilliant insight, perhaps Rick will have to eat Zombie cake to keep Daryl at his side.
Thank you for the fantastic entertainment that is The Walking Dead! No, I’m not blowing smoke. But there must be something good for all of us fans to become actually concerned about the characters, worried, mad, sad, jubilant…SCARED…
Thank you for a one hour weekly escape to a different type of crazy world.
Sincerely
Pysyko

I think Rick should have let Carol come back and confess to the council and they all decide what to do. The old world rules just cannot apply all the time anymore. Did anyone notice the wind seemed to be picking up by the end of the episode as well? And I did NOT trust Crunchy Granola Happy Boy Sam….And now he has TWO guns, becasue I think he had something to do with Cruncy Granola Happy Girl getting ate by walkers, mainly because NO shot was fired when she got in trouble. And how did her leg “fall off” LOL? There is no trail of blood from the leg to the body so that was kinda weird…..SO Sam has at least one gun and knows Rick’s crew is at a prision near there. And now he is GONE, I do not like that at all….Stookey will be an assett to the group. Yes he is flawed, but if we do lose Hershel to the virus AND Carol is gone, he is the next best medical person hope they have. Mybe Stookey did have a run in with the Gov. Maybe one of the groups he was the last one standing in met their fate at the Gov’s hands. (before woodbury)

After watching this episode, I felt like the show finally gave us an answer to the question from the first episode. I think Daryl’s occupation was a Mechanic. He was a savior for the med recon group. Plus, the way he handled Bob was great.

Daryl is such a great character that the TV show added. He is as real as it gets. Especially when he gave Bob back the booze, and told him if he had a drop of it before they delivered the meds safely, he was a dead man. Daryl is not going to tell him how to live, but he’s also not going to let his addictions compromise their mission. Daryl really seems to be the most level headed and sane of the entire group. Even more than Hershel at this point. When he lost Merle, he really dealt with it on the spot. And now, well now he seems to be the rock of the cast. Love that guy!

Carol went rogue one too many times. I think RIck saw her indifference with so many things in the episodes before this (i.e. cleaning water drain, teaching the kids with knives, having Carl keep secrets from his dad, etc.). When it all added up, I believe Rick felt Carol had become some level of a sociopath. SHe would do things for the “good of the group”, but they increasingly seemed like they were for herself.

All that being said, I was shocked and saddened when rick banished her. Not sure how everyone back at prison will react to that. Especially that little girl. If she is the one feeding the walkers (which I am now almost certain), then Carol’s absence may be more than she can take. She may lose it, and that will be a big problem Rick never saw coming.

If anyone even has time to react to Carol’s exile. I really think when Rick and then Daryl, Michonne, Ty, and Bob get back, the herd is going to have hit the prison…I wonder if everyone will get split up?

It was also good to see RIck stepping up to make the hard decisions, even though you know he didn’t want to have to do it. I love how the show blindsides even the comic book readers. Really is awesome.

What if Carol’s new “daughter” really does freak out? Do you guys think they would use the stuff from the comic about the two young twin brothers?

If so, I see the little girl killing her younger sister. When she does, she will act just like the boy did…thinking it is no big deal because she will come back. She does think the walkers are people, too. She names them, may feed them. If she loses it, those lines may become blurred even more. Then….Rick may blame himself. What will the Council do about the little girl? There are no psych facilities around. Even her younger sister said the girl was not scared, that she is “messed up”. (I think that was term she used)

You guys that read the comic know what Carl might do. But can they really do that on the show? It would be pretty intense. Probably won’t happen, but there are some things that have happened this season that made me think of it. Food for thought!

OMG – Rick so overstepped his authority. The community is now council run, so Carol should have been able to tell her side of the story in front of everyone. He was so sanctimonious with her, yet in the past he killed both Tomas and Shane because his sensed possible harm. Both Bob and Tyreese are weak links and will get someone killed. So that leaves my man Daryl. Awesome.

I wonder if when Rick went out searching for supplies with Carol, it was his intention to leaver her behind or he decided that afterwards. I don’t think it should be his decision to banish Carol, he should have talked to the council and let them decide, after all Carol was part of the group from the beginning, even before Rick. What will he say to everybody at the prison when he comes back alone? Will he tell the truth or lie? And Daryl, will he understand his reasons? Maybe when he comes back the people at the prison will be very busy fighting the walkers to notice that Carol is not there. But Rick will have a lot to explain, and his action may not be accepted by everybody, Daryl in special, and that could divide the group. Probably Daryl and Michone will have an excuse to leave the prison, Daryl wants to find Carol and Michone will have a pretext to look for the governor. I still think Carol is covering for one of the kids, Lizzy or Carl, or both. I found strange that lengthy dialogue between Carol and Lizzy before she left, and that Lizzy insists that she is not weak. Did she burn Karen and David to prove that she is strong?

The questions Rick asks are very stupid; how many walkers have you killed? Is anyone keeping count of how many zombies they killed? Is there a “zombie-killing” contest? Maybe the person who kills more zombies will get a shirt.

1. NO!!!! Rick didn`t make the right choice. How will Daryl react to his choice? It`s so obvious Daryl and Carol have a thing for each other.
2. Sure I think I understand why it is the zombie outbreak.

No Rick didn`t make the right choice! Daryl had a thing going on with Carol.How will he react? Honestly no. a lot of the good people are dying and the not so important characters are living. Yes we will see Carol again! Still I think Daryl will go after her.