Sy Hersh: U.S. Soldiers Massacre Non-Combatant Iraqis

author: Lt. Calley

Seymour Hersh spoke at Berkeley last Friday, October 8th. He told a story about recently receiving a call from an American lieutenant in Iraq who'd just witnessed other American soldiers killing non-combatant Iraqis.

Seymour Hersh spoke at Berkeley last Friday, October 8th. He told a story about recently receiving a call from an American lieutenant in Iraq who'd just witnessed other American soldiers killing non-combatant Iraqis.

HERSH: I got a call last week from a soldier -- it's different now, a lot of communication, 800 numbers. He's an American officer and he was in a unit halfway between Baghdad and the Syrian border. It's a place where we claim we've done great work at cleaning out the insurgency. He was a platoon commander. First lieutenant, ROTC guy.

It was a call about this. He had been bivouacing outside of town with his platoon. It was near, it was an agricultural area, and there was a granary around. And the guys that owned the granary, the Iraqis that owned the granary... It was an area that the insurgency had some control, but it was very quiet, it was not Fallujah. It was a town that was off the mainstream. Not much violence there. And his guys, the guys that owned the granary, had hired, my guess is from his language, I wasn't explicit -- we're talking not more than three dozen, thirty or so guards. Any kind of work people were dying to do. So Iraqis were guarding the granary. His troops were bivouaced, they were stationed there, they got to know everybody...

They were a couple weeks together, they knew each other. So orders came down from the generals in Baghdad, we want to clear the village, like in Samarra. And as he told the story, another platoon from his company came and executed all the guards, as his people were screaming, stop. And he said they just shot them one by one. He went nuts, and his soldiers went nuts. And he's hysterical. He's totally hysterical. And he went to the captain. He was a lieutenant, he went to the company captain. And the company captain said, "No, you don't understand. That's a kill. We got thirty-six insurgents."

You read those stories where the Americans, we take a city, we had a combat, a hundred and fifteen insurgents are killed. You read those stories. It's shades of Vietnam again, folks, body counts...

You know what I told him? I said, fella, I said: you've complained to the captain. He knows you think they committed murder. Your troops know their fellow soldiers committed murder. Shut up. Just shut up. Get through your tour and just shut up. You're going to get a bullet in the back. You don't need that. And that's where we are with this war.

Actions like this are representative of the whole of the US militaristic forces. Life means absolutely nothing to most american troops who consider any non-white person as subhuman and are happy to take potshots at them to alleviate their boredom and frustration.

What are these people doing thousands of miles away from home, slaughtering innocent people long after it became clear that the invasion was illegal and the reasons for war were lies? Do they not have families of their own? Or were they simply recruited from amongst the urban lowlife of american cities?

If verified, and sadly I expect it will be, this is yet another example of the obscene futility of "killing people to save them". It is long past due for those responsible for the atrocities of this war to stand trial - and I'm not talking about a few token grunts here. I mean those whose leadership and example led directly to this and so many other clear crimes (not least of which is the whole war itself). http://feed.shadow.org.nz:8000/listen.pls

If one dose a little research one finds out General George Armstrong Custer counted all killed Native Americans as "Warriors." It diddn't matter if those killed were old men, women or children. Everyone of them were "warriors." We must remember what happened to Custer.

This is such a complete fabrication of the actual truth, it should be banned, and probably will. In Vietnam the enemy was everywhere, and the war was in America. In Iraq the enemy is in the USA and the war is in Iraq. The truth is almost always, a path that is unknown....

My answer, even if this had really occured, would be to say...SO WHAT! Individual lives mean nothing in the Global scheme of dominence. Do you really think that a few thousand Iraq civilians make any difference at all? Each year our Government kills thousands of its own citizens and labels it accidents, disappearances and suicides. You are only alive to write this, because you are insignificant. If you knew the real truth...you would be DEAD....

what does it matter? what is the diference? the ones hiding behind the civilians are also civilians . The bravest of the civilians took up guns to protect their city from the invaders. Would you be a brave man and do the same if invaded after your cities were first bombed for three nights killing over 10 thousand?
A curse on all military. I do not support anyones troops. I curse them. they are paracites in this world. and they terrorize those who pay their salaries thru taxes.
Do not blame your president. Blame every volunteer mercinary soldier.
They do the deeds.

Did ya find Osama yet? Its like a game of "Where's Waldo?". Did you locate the WMDs yet? I am still waiting for you to find a decent excuse for spending soooo much amerikan tax payer money for this illegal invasion of Iraq, to steal thier resources and kill thier children.
These people are not unlike any one else. And just like you, they will come looking for retribution, then you will have realized your own greatest nightmare, and will suffer the wrath of war, except it will be in your cities. This is the fault of your govenment and its policies.

I am having a difficult time being slagged as a pacifist Canadian with no personal freedoms and a terrible health care system .FYI -Canada entered both the first and second world war years before the US was dragged in .We lost a huge number of soldiers in those conflicts ,fighting in a just war for world freedom.Simply because we chose not to side with the US in a very questionable military activity does not make us weak .It makes us smart .Your war on terror is being fought in the wrong country for the wrong reasons.Ultimately the terrorists you are fighting in Iraq would be called freedom fighters if the occupying army was Russia or China.You very actions are the one fueling terrorism, in Iraq and the rest of Islam .
As for the rest of the generalities you like to throw around on personal freedoms in Canada .You obviuosly havent read the Patriot(Orwell)Act yet.
Best of luck --we will all need it if GW makes it back in .

From ABC News recently-
(Secretary of State)Powell said the insurgents were political foes of the interim Iraqi government and the uprising was not due to ethnic rivalry.

"These people are criminals," Powell said. "These people are blowing up automobiles. They are killing children. They are killing police who are there to preserve order."

Let me ask Secretary Powell a few questions-

1) What would Americans do if a foreign power attacked them on phony premises?

2) What would they do if their national infrastructure was destroyed by the attackers?

3) What would they do if their friends and family were imprisoned, raped, murdered, tortured and ruthlessly brutalized by the attackers?

4) What would they do if the interim government installed by the attackers was nothing more than a charade?

5) What would they do if they were 70% unemployed with no signs of improvement?

6) What would they do if they had to live in unhealthy conditions because of the destruction of hospitals, lack of medicines, lack of water treatment plants, etc.?

7) What would they do if their cities and towns were bombed to supposedly kill "insurgent" safe houses, instead killing many innocent civilians?

8) What would they do if the people who had the courage to fight the attackers(real freedom fighters) were rounded up and imprisoned or executed?

I myself am quite sure what many Americans would do, the ones who still have the courage to stand up for what is right- they would fight back and try to expel the attacker/occupier. Since when did our government and its leaders get the right to determine who has the right to act like a human being and who doesn't?

Well.. this is a subject that touches everyone. Because we are all human beings. As a canadian, i have to say that this war was never nessairy. But i do support the troops, but not the cause that GWB invented. I really feal bad for the troops, they are stuck in the middle of this. Stuck between Iraqis who hates them, and the US goverment who sent them to fight a war based on lies. Soldiers are dying needlessly on a daily bases. And so are Iraqis. Now, because of the war in iraq, if will be a haven for terrorists to be bread. THis war will last for years, just like Vietnam. I really feel bad for the soldiers, i know many international students who go to my university..they feel the same way. Its a shame that GWB uses other peoples blood for a war that could have been provented.
As regards to those comments about Canada. Yes we are leaning towards socialism, because instead of the government not caring about us and having there own agenda, they are really working on helping canadians govern themselves. Eventually not needing a goverment , because of out collectivity. But that will happen many many years from now. Yes we do have night taxes, but we have free health care, we are open mided to new ideas. Like gay marriage..etc. We will hever have a patriot act....never. Theres a patriot act 2 on the way...good luck with that.
On a international basis, we have been known for giving alot of humanatarian help to unfortunate contries. War is not our policy. Only Helping others that can't help themselves is. Final note, theres never been a good war...and a bad peace. And second, GBW made you beleive in absurdities... so now its makin you do atrocities.

I am an enlisted member of a US military organization currently on active duty. I have 2 associates and 1 bachelors degree, so I am not an uneducated scumbag as some of you have already assumed that I am (can we say intolerant and unwilling to have an open mind?). I did not come from the dregs of society. I believe that everyone, regardless of your social standing, should partake in public service. One can not appreciate their freedom, until they do not have it. Military service is an excellent way to achieve both public service and it gives you an appreciation of your freedoms.
I had to read the above article multiple times in order to fully comprehend what the author was trying to convey. The retelling of the account of violence in the Iraqi town resembles an urban legend. Notice how the story is given to us from an eye witness (unidentified to protect their identity), not involved in the alleged operation( Why were they not involved? They were already onscene, knew what was going on and where all of the targets were? They were the experts on that village.), who tells it to Mr Hersch, who then tells it to an audience and then the story is transcribed and brought to us by the author. The way that we receive the story allows for a lot of distortion to take place. Not to mention that the recounting of the incident in Iraq, by Mr. Hersch, doesn't translate to print very well and becomes almost an exercise in stream-of-conciousness reporting. Where was the village? When did this happen? Why was the platoon camped outside of this village? Answers to these questions could be revealed without giving away the identity of the officer. These are all questions that every reader of this article should have answered before we treat this as fact and in turn form opinions.

This was a heart shattering story. It does not really matter if this particular incident,was factual or not, as these situations do occur when command starts to "count" insurgents in a daily kill count to send "on up". The way it looks right now, this will all eventually be fodder for some future "expose/cathartic" tell-all book. We'll read it and think that was terrible..but, then again, that was then..and this is now!!

Good point about the article, it is true that we do not have all the facts. Without getting all of the facts and information, it is not right to come up with a conclusion, let alone an opinion. Only when we will know the whole story about it that we should allow ourselves to close our eyes and open our mouths.

Just because you have a college education doesn't mean your bright!. Why did you have to read it so many times? Did you understand it the first time? Yes, it is a cheap shot- but then you probably didn't have the foresight to realise you instantly gave the game away (I'll let you figure it out).

To summarise Americans in one word (and i'm being charitable) - "Gullible" . I'll leave you to add the second word.

regards!
PS Get yourself a proper education got to University in Canada - (assuming you meet the entrance requirements nand they'll have ya).

Dr Math,
I was exercising common forensic technique in revealing my background before offering my comment on the article, not using my level of education as an indicator as to my IQ. You are right, not everyone who has a degree is bright, bachelors and especially a PHD. It simply demonstartes that an individual is hardworking and can exercise a level focus.
Speaking of focus, I find it interesting that your comments were directed at me and not the substance of the article (the whole reason for this area of the article). If you choose, you can reach me at the above email address and we can discuss the pro and cons of different education systems throughout the world.

One cannot resort to tactics like a straw-man, personal attacks, distraction, etc and expect to have one's argument taken seriously.

What I find interesting is that Hersh calls for the soldier to be quiet. That won't last long. It's probably a good thing those serving in Iraq are unaware of how effective and commonplace fragging in Vietnam was. Of course, those serving in Vietnam started out the same way, but they learned quickly enough how to exercise what little power they had in keeping themselves out of harm's way. I expect to see the same thing begin in Iraq before the year's end.

It is a sad day, when this type of commentary leads to the condemnation of the young patriotic soldiers, engulfed in the Iraq conflict, whose only sin, is believing in the egotistical decisions, made by an incredible American President, the duly elected leader of their nation. Unless you have been engaged in war and the pursuant life and death situations, you have no right to sit in the safety of your own home and judge the circumstances associated with "Gorilla Warfare." If the leaders of all existing democratic nations, within the existing framework of the United Nations, would leave their egos and personal monetary considerations behind, war would not be necessary and a universally accepted cohesion would prevail preventing such conflicts. I am familiar with the author of this article, another example of patriotism being smeared with the horrors and travesties of war, as one is continually being confronted with life and death decisions as his brothers are killed, maimed, and lay dying on a battlefield... Wake up people, it is not the youth of a nation, but the leaders they look up too. This does not exonerate those nations that choose to do nothing during times of, "Universal Genocide." "Judge Not Lest You Be Judged!" Is Not Terroism Anarchy? A Vietnam Veteran...*T/G*

I agree with the alleged military individual who says we don't have all the facts. We don't. BUT, as has been proven time and time again with this charade called a 'war', we NEVER get the facts. We get sugar-coated blather from the mouthpiece (news) of the administration whose job it is to make the administration look justified.

My challenge to this individual is; rather than simply saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions, do YOUR homework and come back with the truth. If it's so easy to discover the facts, then let's have them laid out here. That said, however, you should also be able to supply verification of your facts to us. Admonishment is only valid when backed by truth. And truth is something this administration and it's news sources are loathe to publish.

Fact: we invaded a country illegally without provocation and against the Geveva COnvention.
Fact: the UN resolutions did NOT authorize force - neither of them
Fact: the lack of WMD was known months prior to the invasion and discussed at length on the Net.
Fact: the administration has consistently lied to the American people regarding WMD
Fact: there was no link between our installed leader (Saddam) and Al Kyda
Fact: there was no linke between our installed leader (Saddam) and Osama
Fact: 10's of thousands of civilians have been killed
Fact: hundreds of tons of DU munitions have been dropped on this country.

In light of the above, jumping to the conculsion that the US military (whose job it is to carry out the will of the present administration) might be targeting non-combatant civilians, is not beyond the scope of the imagination. We were told from the onset of this fiasco that "we don't do body counts". Something about that statement leaves me uneasy and prone to believe this article. (until it can be proven false)

What was this lieutenants name?Unit?Company? Battalion? Division?What was the towns name?This article bears every aspect of the infamous urban legend.Nothing to verify the facts.And its not even a very good one at that.Next time,at least put some info in it that would make it somewhat plausible.

Word has come to me from an Army source that your office has rejected the
"Cannoneer's" proposed publication of my classified ad "Blow the Whistle
on All Atrocities of Abu Ghraib!"

Since I've received no formal confirmation of that rejection from your
office, I now ask that you provide me the precise rationale for your
decision.

In the meantime, I'm submitting the following additional ad for your
review, in hopes that it will not meet with the same fate as the other ad.
-- Larry W. Bryant

Join the Revolt Against the "Feres Doctrine" !

Most prospective (and too many current) servicemembers who sign up for
military service fail to realize that their doing so
automatically cancels out their constitutional right to seek
litigative redress for official wrongs done unto them during any
period of service. This 50-some-year-old congressionally devised,
dehumanizing booby trap is being challenged by a dedicated group of
military veterans known as the Veterans Equal Rights Protection
Advocacy (http://www.verpa.org ). Of course, VERPA members keenly
realize the urgency of their revolt, now that our nation's younger
citizenry might face the renewal of conscription because of Iraqnam.
What's more: should certain U.S.-led activity in Iraqnam ever get
adjudged as criminality by a Nuremberg-styled court of inquiry,
imagine how many servicemenbers (and their families) will flood the
ranks of "Feres" victimhood! If you (or someone you know) already
have been victimized by "Feres," VERPA wants to add your account to
its case for reform. Contact: Larry W. Bryant at . . . .

It is my understanding that your office requires your prepublication
review of the below-quoted classified ad that I desire to have
printed in a forthcoming issue of your command's weekly newspaper, the
"Cannoneer." Accordingly, upon completion of your review, I ask that you
notify me immediately so that I may forward the ad's text direct to the
printer. --Larry W. Bryant

Blow the Whistle on ALL Atrocities at Abu Ghraib!

Now that the Center for Public Integrity has received "leakage" of highly
incriminating documentation about the U.S.-led debacle in
Iraqnam's Abu Ghraib prison (see: http://www.publicintegrity.org ), you
have a chance to add YOUR whistleblower voice to this expose if you (or
someone you know) possess additional evidence of such gross impropriety.
Contact: Larry W. Bryant at . . . .

The story Hersh relates seems realistic, to this former Army intelligence officer: First, it is typical of the kind of "irregular action" taken against and irregular insurgency. Soldiers facing an evasive guerilla force, doubting the national forces with whom they are alligned (which are frequently working for the other side) might indeed take such actions -- in Vietnam it was common enough. In any war with partisan warfare it is common. So much for the "clean war/humane war" myth of Rumsfeld and the Bush Boyz. Second, the rationalization given by the company commander: "We've just killed terrorists," is the kind of double-speak that always accompanies atrocity. Third, the body count is specific, indicating that the rationalization has become institutional.

In light of what we've seen at Abu Ghraib prison, are we really surprised that our forces are being ordered to commit atrocities? When a nation engages in a criminal war it must not be surprised that it spawns war criminals.

The US Media have routinely been in receipt of information like that which Hersh passed on in Berkeley. They are playing a body count game of their own: Suppressing the true number of US dead -- by a huge margin -- so that the pulbic will remain ignorant of the true nature of our debacle in Iraq, and clueless about the pending draft we will need to replace the dead and wounded. I believe interested readers should turn to the Russian "World Mirror" to see Iraqi Resistance battlefield reports: they don't read like "urban myths" at all; they read like the records of a more-and-more organized resistance, and belie the Pentagon/Whitewash House statement that, although we are being attacked more and more and more (nearly a hundred times a day), we are still losing only a soldier or two per day. Site addy: http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/tiki-index.php

Alternatively, you might check out my work on the cover-up of the Battle of Baghdad (April 5-7, 2003), which my old colleagues in Army Public Affairs hid beneath the distraction of the wounded/rescued Private Jessica Lynch. The body count numbers have been going on from the start, folks -- and the Corporate Media (Embedded, alas) has been along for the entire ride. They have simply become and arm of government propaganda. (Site addy: www.geocities.com/onlythecaptain/ )

This war is about oil, that much is obvious. The people behind this war are not Bush and Blair who are puppets. The Queen of England never raised her voice in opposition to the war when millions of people in England and around the world were marching against the war. That is because she along with the Rothschilds, Builderbergs, Rockerfellars, Morgans, Stanleys, Fords and others were the instigators of this war. They are the true war criminals who need to be prosecuted and inmprisoned or executed. Only then can this war be stopped.

Scribbleguy said: "I myself am quite sure what many Americans would do, the ones who still have the courage to stand up for what is right- they would fight back and try to expel the attacker/occupier."

Yeah? Well, the USA _has_ been occupied by an invader for years - Israeli zionists. They own you - Bushies, banks, billboards, balls and all. Art students, my arse!

And I don't see any fighting in the streets. Do you?

Here's a prediction. Bush will get back in, via blatantly obvious election rigging. He will introduce a massive military draft, he will totally destroy the US economy and currency, institute a complete fascist police state, and will be Der Furer Bush before the end of his term. And you know what? You will all let him get away with it.

Because you are all PUSSIES!
If any of you were half the men your founding fathers were, the whole treasonous satanic gang of neocons and Bushits would have been arrested, tried, and executed long ago.

The horrors of war, mans inhumanity to man, scared sh!tless, fabricated justification for preemptive war on sovereign nations, Uranium Poisoning by Depleted Uranium Munitions, DU, mutilated babies born to returning vets, some without limbs, the screams at Abu Ghraib as mothers are forced to watch Americans sodomize their sons, DEMOCRACY NOW, like it or die!. What kind of stupid asinine nightmare has our intelligence community created for the 25 million Iraqi and those American's assigned to convert thier political minds and their political oil. What a scam! http:www.jenmartinez.com/vetsturn/ ----- http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html ---- http://www.geocities.com/larryjodaniel/17.html ---- http://www.spiritone.com/~pazuu/pow-mia/JjohnMcCarthy.htm johnmccarthy1369@msn.com

People. My Bretheren. My friends. We cannot simply sit idle any longer when the cost to do so is innocent lives of men, women, and children. Protests may be suppressed by the police, but there are still ways that we can defy our illegitimate President, and his foreign policy of death and distruction. Put up flyers around public places where people can see your message, "Bring our troops back home now! Spare their bloodshed, and the bloodshed of countless civilians."

The only exploitation I am aware of concerning U.S.Military personnel, are in response, to all those who would use, every irreconciable tactic, exploiting the noted and implied, military personnnel. these are the tactics of our enemies.. Where have you procured the values or information, utilized in your response? We are a democracy, responsible for the decisions made by our leaders, yes, but I do concur with ,looting, rape, torture, no. Where do you get these false premises? Obviously, you have never served or been outside the confines of, "LA La Land."

I believe the events from the telephone call probably are true. I am saddened at the lengths our current regime is going to for money and power.

As an American, I voted today. I voted to fire bush and to hire Kerry as our next President. While no person or government is perfect, I do sincerely hope that our future is better than our present and recent past.