The Sharks head to Detroit and Roenick doesn’t back down from his strong words

Yeah, the Sharks lost 4-3 in Game 5 and now are heading back to Detroit. But we’re talking about Jeremy Roenick’s post-game comments on Patrick Marleau where he said the Sharks center had a “gutless, gutless performance” Sunday night. The inflammatory remarks, which were made-to-order for our social media age, have lit up the Internet.

To briefly recap, when Roenick was asked in the post-game by Versus studio co-host Keith Jones if Marleau was hurt, J.R. responded: “Yeah, he’s hurt. He’s hurt all right. Right here he’s hurt.” And he pointed to his heart.

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For good measure, Roenick later added that “19 players played hard” for the Sharks. By then, Roenick didn’t need to name the other one.

Them is fightin’ words, of course. And before the Sharks boarded a flight back for Detroit this morning, they were all asked about the comments.

Marleau, as you might expect, had little to say.

“Someone told me about them this morning,” Marleau said. “I can’t control what people say. I have to focus on what I can control and that’s what I’m going to do.”

He then proceeded to say the same thing about five different ways. Marleau, who is scoreless in this series, did add that he feels like he’s ready to break out of the scoring slump.

“I do feel points are going to come,” he said. “I’ve been all around it, close to the net and getting some good chances. It’s bound to happen.”

Coach Todd McLellan said he knew of the remarks, but also didn’t actually hear them.

“Broadcasters have the microphone and the opportunity for the last comment, and J.R. had that,” McLellan said. “He expressed his opinion of an individual. I don’t see it that way. I see last night as a team loss.”

But McLellan then said of Marleau: “He needs to be better. It’s as simple as that. We need him to be better offensively and defensively. But he’s one individual. There’s others on that line. There’s a D pair on the ice. There’s a goaltender. There’s a number of people who have to pick up their play.”

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Added captain Joe Thornton: “Patty has scored a lot of big goals for this team. We realize that it’s a team sport and we all have to be better. That’s just the bottom line. The good news is we’re still in control of the series and we just have to win one game to advance.”

* OK, so you really don’t think Roenick was going to back down from his comments, do you?

I talked to J.R. on the phone this morning and he was not the least bit apologetic.

“I am a huge Sharks fan,” said Roenick, whose last two NHL seasons were with the Sharks. “I am a huge Doug Wilson fan. I think Doug Wilson has stepped to the plate and been very loyal to people, including to Patrick Marleau. And I’m going to call things the way I see them. This is not a personal attack. It’s my job to speak my mind. People can say whatever they want. I want the Sharks to win the Stanley Cup someday. I think the fans deserve it. I think Doug Wilson deserves it. But when you’re in a position to close out your arch-rival, I think you need a better effort. I don’t think it was there and I stand by what I said.”

Roenick, of course, has been needling Marleau ever since he retired. So I asked him if there something personal between them.

“This is totally on the record,” he said. “I am not a Patrick Marleau fan. I’m not going to pretend to be. But I also will tell you that he is an incredible, incredible talent. I wish I had the talent he has. If I had the talent Patrick Marleau has, I wouldn’t even know what I could have done. But I have my opinion of his determination and effort level, especially with the amount of money that he makes. I respect people’s opinions, but I have one, too. I really feel that the San Jose Sharks, the fans, and Doug Wilson deserve a better effort than they have gotten on a lot of nights in this series. And I have the ability to say that. This is not an act. This is me speaking my mind. Patrick Marleau has a lot of fans. I just happen to be not one of them.”

Roenick is well aware of loose-cannon reputation in a sport where players and coaches don’t like to criticize one another in public. Roenick said he’s just giving voice to what others think about Marleau’s level of competitiveness.

“Nobody else will say it,” he said. “I am sure I’m not the only person who feels this way. Read my Tweet board and there are Sharks fans agreeing with me. There are fans who are mad at me. And that’s OK. That goes with the territory. The word gutless might have been a little strong. But I chose to use it and I’m not backing off it.”

Finally, Roenick said nobody will have to pass him the salt if he has to eat some crow over his comments as the series continues.

“What if Marleau has the game of his life tomorrow, the San Jose Sharks win the series and they go on and win the Stanley Cup?” he asked. “That’s what I want to happen. As a loyal Sharks fan, I hope my comments are slammed down my throat and Patrick Marleau plays the best game of his life. And if he does, I will be the first one to give him kudos.”

I don’t understand why so many of you so-called Sharks fans are down on JR. I love Marleau but I must admit – SharksSinking are you listening? – I am admitting that my favorite player has gone AWOL, MIA in Round 2. PM pulled his weight, did his share in Round 1. But in Round 2 PM went into a his comfort shell – we fans have seen this happen on occasion in previous PO’s – we don’t know what causes this to happen but when it occurs, it spells disaster for our team. Maybe other players feed off this event – both our players and the opposing team’s players – but the end result is BAD.

JR has given our team a chance by calling out PM and provoking him to get out of his far away mind place. Our team is facing ELIMINATION. The Wings have the mpomentum. PM needs to play like the talented star he is in Game 6. Do you honestly believe kindly TMac or best friend Thornton would say anything worthwhile to motivate PM to play his best in Game 6? I’m glad JR said what he did even in his abrasive shock-jock fashion – someone needed to break thru PM’s shell. If not JR, who else would? I BELIEVE in Marleau. I KNOW Marleau will play like a lion and poke holes in Jimmy Freakin’ Howard tomorrow night.

Go Sharks! Go Marleau!

headfakebackhand

-200
stop being so sensitive! PM has played bad, we’ve all seen this before. If we can get past this series, he will probably go on one of his hot streaks. But we as fans have the right to bash whoever we please. I also don’t see it as bashing marleau, any fan who watches this team and follows it closely year after year has a right to be upset with his play. That doesn’t change the fact that we all want PM and the rest of the sharks to succeed.

TheBigPavelski

@cap-o

Here Here!

Some fans complain about the lack of heart and drive of the team. I ask where resolve of the fans is….

We’re not talking about unrequited optimism or fanboy faith, but “there is a certain grit” that many of us are lacking. It’s a good thing the team doesn’t give a damn what we say.

“I don’t understand why so many of you so-called Sharks fans are down on JR. I love Marleau but …

No good reason why I bother with this drivel. All it does it irritate. Maybe, that is the objective.

Sharks must be comforted to know their fans have their backs.

Good luck tomorrow. JP

hockey rocks

#204 WI JP

You’re the expert on “drivel” oh Candles in the Wind! Smirk. What have you ever commented of hockey information substance? All you do is criticize fans and their opinions, How insightful oh candles in the wind.

Sharksfan

I’m going to go out on a limb and say the Sharks explode tomorrow. Final will be 6-2 or 6-3.

It was nice to come on here and read the comments and see that there are still a good number of you on here that haven’t joined the lemmings in following JR over the cliff.

I was incensed when JR took it to the venomous, personal level. He seems to have some sort of hatred for Patrick Marleau, so my sister and I tried to figure out what the possible reasons could be:

1) He is mad that Patrick can handle his alcohol and he can’t?

2) He is jealous that Patrick got attention from his father while he was growing up?

3) Patrick’s wife is prettier than his?

4) He wanted the captaincy when he came to San Jose, and Patrick had it?

We came up with a couple others, but I couldn’t put them on here, out of respect for the rules. To be sure, there is a personal vendetta there, but who really knows why? All I know is that JR proved himself to be a petty, classless loudmouthed jerk.

And to be sure, as one commenter said, if Patrick comes out in Game 6, and some of the chances that he has been getting in this series finally start going in, JR will take the credit for it. After all, in JR’s world, it is all about JR. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wore a locket with his own picture in it, and a lock of his hair.

YJohny

Tom, you potz!

“I care more about the tweet where he said “it was OK if the Sharks lost this series, after being up 3-0″…. HELL NO IT ISNT…”

Yeah, uh, Tom, small detail, that wasn’t the tweet. The tweet was “Sharks fans!! Some of the best in sports!! But is it ok if sharks lose this series with this good a hockey club! Best team in years!!”

Only the exact opposite of what you said it was.

I read the comments here a lot, and I’m sure all the other people who read the comments here are as used to wrong opinions coming from you as I am, but at least get your facts right man. Sheesh. To regularly flaunt stupidity here is one thing, but to post your delusions, too? Comeon! If youre going to post here then stop skipping your medication. Wow!

YJohny

OregonRachel 207.

You don’t seem to be going for plausibility with your list, but just in case you change your mind, I thought I’d offer up something logical, for a change. Jeremy Roenick came back from the cusp of retirement because he was dying to win a Cup, and thought he had a good chance with the Sharks. Yet, when the postseason rolled around, both times, Patrick Marleau disappeared. Jeremy Roenick busted his ass trying to win the Cup, but he couldn’t do it all by himself. He was expecting Patrick Marleau, one of the team’s highest paid stars, to accompany him into battle, pick up a lot of the scoring, and help his, and the team’s, quest for a Cup, but Patrick Marleau let him, and the team, down each time. Game after game, series after series, Marleau was invisible. Thus, the Sharks did not win the Cup, Roenick did not win the Cup, and I’m sure he blames some of that on Patrick Marleau. A 40 year old Roenick could not score enough all by himself to win 4 rounds of the playoffs. Patrick Marleau took up a large portion of the team’s cap, and it was his job to score as much, or more, than the similarly paid forwards on the other teams. However, instead, he got completely outplayed, first by Brenden Morrow and company in 08, and then by a rookie in Bobby Ryan in 09, and Getzlaf, and Perry.

Jeremy Roenick was around this team for two seasons. He knows Marleau much better than you, or any of us, do. He saw first hand Marleau’s pension for becoming invisible in important games. And we can only imagine what else he saw in the training rooms, during practice. Clearly, the fact that J.R is not calling Thornton gutless, or Vlasic, or any other player, just Marleau, shows that he saw some things during his time in San Jose that we don’t even know about. Maybe he saw him slacking off in practice. Maybe he saw him from the bench purposefully avoiding blocking shots. I’m sure it’s all of the above and more.

Patrick Marleau let him down in his quest for the Cup, and the team down while he was there. That is why Roenick holds a grudge, and it seems totally justifiable to me.

See, maybe you don’t get it Oregon Rachel, but Marleau is our Datsyuk, our Zetterberg, our Getzlaf, our Perry. He makes 7 million dollars a year, which means if we’re going to be better than the other teams, he has to play better than the players on the other teams who make 7 million dollars a year (or, if he doesn’t, other players have to make up the difference). Luckily, San Jose has crazy depth, and Marleau can be invisible most games without us even noticing because other players are making up for it. However, if we were a team like Anaheim, for instance, and we only had Thornton, Marleau, and say Heatley, we only had a top line, and we didn’t have great depth, we would lose every game, because every single game our team plays against another good team, the guys making 7 million dollars on the other team outperform the guy making 7 million dollars on our team named Patrick Marleau. And now it’s happening once again. Zetterberg, injured, is outplaying Marleau. Datsyuk, even more injured, is outplaying Marleau. And those guys even have lower cap hits than he does.

If it weren’t for Clowe, Setoguchi, and Pavelski doing the opposite of what Marleau does, which is performing much better than their salaries, and much better than the players on the other teams making the same salaries, LA would have trounced us in 4 or 5, and we’d probably get eliminated in the 1st round every season, if we even made the playoffs.
If you want to look at this another way, imagine this team, with the depth it has, the 2nd line with Clowe and company, and imagine if you swapped Patrick Marleau for Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Perry, or Bobby Ryan. Even Thornton, who has improved, if you swapped him as well. Imagine if we had say, Zetterberg and Getzlaf, instead of Thornton and Marleau. We would win the Cup every year. Imagine if our top line, 7 million dollar players just played as well as Clowe and Pavelski, let alone played even better, like all-stars, like Datsyuk and Getzlaf and Perry and Zetterberg and all those guys do.

The truth is we are winning because we are overwhelming other teams with our sheer large quantity of top 6 forwards, not because we have the most quality ones. Now, it’s hard to really spell that out in the specific way I mean in just one sentence, without it being a long run on, so I will explain what exactly I mean by that, as it is a little misleading.

It’s like I described earlier. If hockey were a 3 on 3 sport, and it was Thornton, Marleau, and Heatley vs, well, take your pick of any other trio of star forwards, we would lose. Thornton, Marleau, and Heatley vs Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan is a no brainer. Their trio is of much greater quality. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Franzen, all healthy, it’s not even close. Crosby, Malkin, and… they don’t have a 3rd top line forward, but it doesn’t matter, because those two are so much better than ours. Put Neal or Jordan Staal or Kunitz with them, and their trio is better, easily. Brad Richards, Eriksson, and Benn… Eriksson isn’t even a 6 million dollar player, or close, and Benn is just starting his NHL career, so this one is closer than the others would be, but we still lose. Benn is a more complete player than Marleau, and he doesn’t disappear, Eriksson is a much better two-way player than Heatley, and the difference between Thornton and Richards is negligible so it’s a win for Dallas’ trio. Sedin twins and Kesler.. well, Kesler is pretty much single handedly outplaying all three of our top 3 by himself. The Sedins are struggling vs Weber and Suter (understandably), and at least Henrik appears to be very injured. But, healthy, obviously the line with the last MVP, a candidate for the next MVP, and the frontrunner for the Smythe trophy is better than our big 3. Parise, Zajac, and Kovalchuk haven’t really played together yet, but I’m sure they’re a much more dynamic top 3 than ours.

The point is, our top 3 stars, they’re really a shit group of top 3 stars. We don’t win games because Marleau decides to go toe-to-toe with Datsyuk, or Getzlaf, and actually outplays them. We win because our 2nd line, and our 3rd line, outplay the other team’s 2nd line, and 3rd line, just a tiny bit more than the other team’s top line outplays our top line (the LA series aside, as they had no top line without Kopitar. But even then, in the one game where Justin Williams seemed to be able to play before his injury slowed him to a crawl from game 2 onward, he outplayed our top 3 by himself, injured shoulder and all). What I mean by this is, our top line at least serves the purpose of being a top line, with big, fast bodies with skill on it, and at least it is there, and it draws the other team’s best defenseman, and it’s pretty good on the powerplay, and all that, but, if you actually expect any more of it than that, if you actually expect it to outperform the other team’s top line, you’re going to be left disappointed. Marleau always has, and probably always will, come in 2nd when he faces off against a top line player on another team. And I single out Marleau because he is the worst of the three, and Thornton has improved some, but the same can be said for Thornton and Heatley. Thornton is still being outplayed by Datsyuk, even though Datsyuk is injured. Franzen, when healthy, scores at like a goal a game pace in the playoffs. Heatley is barely scoring at all. And I’m sure if we’d faced Anaheim in the first round, Getzlaf would have dominated Thornton, Perry would have dominated Marleau, and Ryan would have outplayed Heatley. And I also think we still would have won because, Selanne aside, our 2nd and 3rd liners are miles ahead of their 2nd liners and 3rd liners. Pavelski would have schooled Saku Koivu. Setoguchi probalby would put a goal more than Jason Blake. Clowe probably would have even matched Selanne. And that leaves Couture and Wellwood against a bunch of random AHL players on Anaheim’s 3rd line.

So that’s the story. Marleau has been invisible in these playoffs, as he almost always is. In the past, this meant we lost, which is why Roenick has a grudge against him. Now, hey, when we play Vancouver, if Higgins, Raymond, Burrows, Hansen and company are able to match the production of our 2nd and 3rd lines, which I doubt they will, but if they do, then we may still have the same problem. The Sedins may be too hurt to play well, in which case we have a huge advantage. But if they are healthy, and they do play how they usually do, and Kesler continues playing how he has all season, then it’s a problem. If their 2nd and 3rd lines match ours, then, in simplified terms, the series gets decided by which top line plays better. And with Marleau, and to a lesser extent Thornton and Heatley, making up our top line, that is a battle we will usually lose.

So that’s what I mean by we have quantity of top 6 forwards, but not quality. I don’t mean that none of our forwards are quality, because clearly they are, the second line especially. What I mean is, we win because we have so many top 6 forwards, that even when Marleau and whoever else are asleep at the wheel, we still have more going than the other team. But, if we ever get into a situation where it’s the equivalent of Marleau, Thornton, Heatley, Clowe, Pavelski, Setoguchi, Couture, and Wellwood, against top line forward on the other team #1, top line forward on the other team #2, top line forward on the other team #3, Clowe equivalent, Pavelski equivalent, Setoguchi equivalent, Couture equivalent, and Wellwood equivalent, we’re in trouble. I mean you saw our top line forwards at the Olympics last year, and they just don’t stack up. I remember a game this year, Rick Nash outscored our entire top line, maybe by 3 goals. He had a hat trick. He’s on that other team, all by himself, no support, no top line center to dish him the puck, and he dominates our top 3, who have the privilege of being able to work off each other and all that, yet it didn’t matter. Nash was just better. He is better than any forward on our team. And I think that’s going to the case against most competitive teams. We just a shoddy group of star, big money forwards. It’s just fortunate we also have a good group of 2nd line forwards to carry us to victory. And it seems like that’s what they may very well do. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us win the Cup at all this year. I just won’t be under the illusion that it’s thanks to Marleau, or even Thornton’s newfound “commitment to defense.” Commitment to defense or not, if the 2nd line wasn’t carrying the top line on it’s back, everyone would still be calling Thornton a choker right now, same as Marleau, because we’d be eliminated already. Instead Thornton is probably going to end up being called a hero for winning the Cup thanks to his “Yzerman” like commitment to defense (you know that line’s coming), and Marleau will probably stumble on a game at some point here in the future where, thanks to all that powerplay time and ice time, a few pucks bounce to him right in front of an open net, and he puts them in easily, like last year. But just because that very well might happen doesn’t mean I’m going to be fooled like many others. This top line still has big problems. I’d still swap them for a 3-pack of most the other players in the league making similar money (or less, even). And I certainly believe Roenick had every right to say what he said. Maybe he’s wrong that it’s a heart problem with Marleau, but he’s certainly right that Marleau comes up short in the playoffs with regularity, whatever the reason.

hockeyplayer

After reading the above posts, is no one concerned about the poor coaching decisions by TM? White and Wallin against Z and Datsyuk all game? I pin the loss on TM. too many bad choices during the game, especially when he has last change. Demers and Pickles can skate with Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

Also, anyone see Danny heatley lately? Clowe and Couture are getting points, despite playing with an anchor. I was willing to give him a pass last year due to his injury. Play BF with Couture and move Heatley to the 4th line.

Thoughts on PM. He needs to be better, period. Did he lose the game for us, no. His feeble effort on the last goal just sealed our fate. Interesting how the number 1 line was on the ice for 3 goals.

Will beats skill in the playoffs. LA showed us that in the 1st round. Detroit has proved that the last 2 games. Time for the Sharks to assert their will and stop with the CA beach surfer dude attitude.

Nuff said.

hockeyplayer

YJohnny,

long winded, but interesting points. Have to agree, our top 3 vs most playoff bound teams top 3 will lose most of the time.

On the other hand, hockey is a team sport. Me, I’ll take a draw of our top 3 vs anyones top 3 because of our depth. Chicago won last year because of their depth, not because Toews and Kane dominated every game. In fact, Chicago’s 3rd and 4th line did all the damage against the Sharks last year.

hopefully the Sharks will move on and PM will regain his touch/confidence, or whatever he lost.

BC

about your basic math, even if we use your pick and choose adjusted numbers to support your idiotic point-

.8 and 1 dont equal the same thing…

Which is why I used the qualifier AROUND (as in, close to, nearly, in the ballpark of) a point-per-game pace, rather than EXACTLY a point-per-game pace.

If you want to argue over semantics, knock yourself out. But the difference between .8 points per game and 1 point per game is one point every five games. If that’s the difference, in your eyes, between an adequate player and a crap one, seek professional psychiatric help.

yep…spilled my coffee…

@YJOHNY…..

What your saying is out TOP line ( thornton, marleau, and heatley) are like 1b against other team top line 1a…

its like a grade score….A+ in class
look alot better then A-…..right???

MY other theory is DW has a mancrush on Marleau…
its the only explaination to why pm is still on the team when we really dont need him that much…
imagine if we have steve nash type of player…or any of the ducks top 3 forward instead pm…we be a dynasty now…

It won’t be easy (as has been the case with most so many of this year’s playoff games), but I won’t be surprised if the banged-up Wings find a way, somehow, to take this to game 7. Playing at home, with momentum, will be a big plus. Having said that, the Sharks will not go down easily and (again) I can’t help but think that, at least in a minor way, the Roenick comments regarding Marleau could rally the Sharks.

OregonRachel: “After all, in JR’s world, it is all about JR. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wore a locket with his own picture in it, and a lock of his hair.”

(LOL &) Ouch! If the Sharks had brought the pain like this, the wings would be gone from this series already. 🙂

Hey, we’re up to 216 comments…is this Mark Emmons’ first 200+ blog entry? If so, congratulations!

Czech Petr

* 211 very well !!

Toews was Conn Smythe winner, Kane and Hossa were strong but depth wins it all…Bolland was a beast…

moreSNOWshowers

Prediction!
Modano comes in for Franzen has the game of his life, Marleau breaks down and cries in the locker room in order to prove he does have a heart!
DW packs up and moves the team to SanFransisco at PM request so he may legally marry Sean Avery!
Joe Thorton smiles and plays with slappy

FRUSTRATING!!!

Czech Petr

…and…defense which don’t allowed what our did during whole playoffs – 10minutes passages which allowed 3 goals and done…

…Niemi will be super hero only if defense don’t collapse…he looked little bit surprised after 4th goal last game….he don’t remember this from last year behind Keith and Seabrook

talksinmaths

Roenick is right. We (the fans) deserve better from these millionaires. Maybe San Jose is too nice of a place? Win or lose, you still get to go home to a beautiful house in an expensive car in city with the arguably the best climate in the world. I don’t know, just trying to rationalize our Boston 2010 syndrome…

Czech Petr

Clowe is out for game 6?!?!?!?!?

Pete

I for one, as a Wings fan, wish JR had never said any of this!!! 🙂

gbs417

Voters on an ESPN’s SportsNation poll have DET beating SJ tonight. Can’t wait for the Sharks to take the ice to prove them wrong!

Forgive me if I seem naive (been a Sharks fan since day 1) but I have never understood the mentality of blaming one on a team sport. Everyone could be playing better. But again, this is a team sport. So tell me JR, how many rings do you have? Were you just “gutless”

Have any of you PM slammers considered for just one second that maybe JR is calling PM out for a reason – and the reason being that PM takes the critism to heart and plays lights out tonight and plays a major roll in beating the Wings?? That said, I hope he’s flat as a pancake and the great Mike Modano is the hero that sends the series back to SJ. Go Wiiiiinnnngggggsssss!!!!!!!!!

Gordie Howe

And also shark fans – I’m amazed on how most of the beat writers for this newspaper have already given the sharks up for dead! You won’t find that in the Freep or the Detnews. But the last time I looked the sharks were still in command of the seriess and playing very well. I guess that’s the difference between a real sports town and a tree-hugging, granola munching town full of techies. Go Wiiiinnnngggssss!!!!!!!!!!

MichiganSharksFan

Quick question for all you Shark fans out there: How many of you realize that the Red Wings did this playoff disappearing act for years before finally winning it all in 1996?

Calm down on the anti-Marleau talk. He is a great player and will continue to be one in the coming years. Steve Yzerman had these kinds of questions about his leadership ability before the Wings finally won, and look how he’s remembered now.

Gordie Howe

Hey there MichiganSharksFan: It was 1997 not 1996 when the Wings won it all. We got swept by the NJ Devils in the ’96 SCF. But I guess since you’re a sharks fan you mustn’t be that smart!

Gordie Howe

And another thing MichiganSharksFan – how on EARTH can you compare a slouch like Marleau who was stripped of his captaincy to the great Steve Yzerman?? Yzerman knows very few equals in the history of the NHL. You are one confused dude!

Gordie Howe

And one more thing MichiganSharksFan – how on EARTH can you compare a slouch like Marleau who was stripped of his captaincy to the great Steve Yzerman?? Yzerman knows very few equals in the history of the NHL. You are one confused idiot!