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I have to say, the gun club is a range basically that offers classes. I took the gun safety classes there and felt safe there. Strict rules while down range and professionals who assist and give helpful advice in a very modern facility. It is also a social club, where wives go as well. No one talks about shooting a person in self defense. No red necks, just cops, ex miltary, a fair amount of teachers, etc. I prefer round targets instead of the human outlines. It is sport for me. I want to target compete one day. LOL. I played darts in bars for years, so this is the next step. The tactical courses look kind of fun too, because it uses athletics combined with gun skill. My gun is unloaded while in the house, clip out and empty. It is locked up with my golf clubs because it is a tool of sport. This is not "gun nut" ownership. Gun nuts carry openly in malls, restaurants, churches, and Walmart and brag about what they will do if someone breaks into their house with a big grin on their face.

I get the "sport" side, having shot in competitions myself. Most of the time its for fun.
But guns are about much more than that. If someone was breaking into your home to harm you, would you use the gun to protect yourself?

Seriously, pokes aside... If we use metal detectors as a first line of defense, at least it identifies the person who could be a potential problem. The second step should be security. It a shame, we as a nation would need this..but worth a try. For public safety regulations, mandate security for all public venues where large groups of people gather and high risk targets. We could use our returning military for those jobs. They are trained, highly skilled peace keepers. We train them well on how to treat civilians where they are guests in other countries. I would rather pay for security out of tax dollars and enjoy a day of shopping at the mall...than arrive at the ready and be on the look out for kooks while shopping.. This seems to be the mindset of those who feel the need to carry openly or concealed.

Those malls had security. Some armed, some not. We know how that turned out.

To each his own on that subject, Jesus himself advocated arming oneself for defense should the situation warrant it so I wouldn't say that it is a sin per se to carry a defensive weapon into a church. I personally don't feel comfortable bringing a weapon into a church at this point in time because IMO preparing for even defensive violence goes against the message of love and peace, however, it is something I will concede is not the safest tactical position to hold, then again I have always been a bit of a risk taker.

I detest real violence, especially that violence which results in victimizing others(force superior to the intended target's level to defend). While I love competitive violence like the fighting sports and even sparring with buddies, violence with a component of hatred and a will to injure turns my stomach.

Originally Posted by JANFU

Biblical link please

I know the one you are referring to, i suggest Matthew 26:52

Originally Posted by LaMidRighter

Luke22:36.

Let's put both Bible versus into perspective.

In Matthew 26:52, Christ was essentially saying that anyone who takes up a weapon for vengeance will eventually die from such a hate-filled act. Or in short, "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

In Luke 22:36, Christ was instructing his disciples to prepare themselves for the eventual persecution they would soon come to face. And thus, he gave them permission to buy weapons (swords) to defend themselves against the coming aggression IF they chose to do so. And as you know, none did.

LaMidRighter,

I understand what you're trying to do and can certainly empathize with your moral struggle on self defense (see his post #301), but what reference to these Bible verses goes to once again confirm is that man will use specific passages of scripture to suit their own purposes. Unless and until you place such verses in their proper context, you risk leading man down a very dark path.

My advice to you: Guard against false witness, my friend.

EDIT: Ask yourself, were the 9 victims at the AME church being persecuted for their religious belief? If your answer is NO (and if you're honest about why Dylann Roof carried out this terrible, horrific, inexcusable act then the only conclusion you can reach is NO), then it wouldn't have made sense for these church members to conceal carry in a place of worship for any reason whatsoever.

I get the "sport" side, having shot in competitions myself. Most of the time its for fun.
But guns are about much more than that. If someone was breaking into your home to harm you, would you use the gun to protect yourself?

I don't keep the clip loaded or in the gun while not in use. So if the person was armed, I probably would not see it coming anyway. If they were not, I feel I would have a better chance of running or defending myself. It is hard to say, I have never had an instance where I feared anyone. No one can truly know. I would hate to shoot someone unarmed

How about you are really willing to compromise the safety of others so you can really feel better. Does that work?

Now all you need to do is show me where I am compromising the safety of others.

__________________________________________________ _
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

No one other than a psychopath is going to carry a gun to a bible study meeting at church. I don't care if you are left, right, or totally non-political, other than nutjobs and psychopaths, no one is going to carry a gun to house of God other than a psychopath. Sometimes bad things happen. We cannot prevent every tragedy.

Oh dear. I guess I am a psychopath.

I carry in church, where it is permitted... and frankly whether it is permitted is a factor in whether I attend that church.

(Protip: I'm not a psychopath. I am however aware that churches are not protected by some mystic dome of peace that prevents bad people from targeting them... and just as I am not interested in being at the mercy of thugs and loonies when shopping at Walmart, ditto at church. See Luke 22:36.)

Fiddling While Rome Burns
ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

I get the "sport" side, having shot in competitions myself. Most of the time its for fun.
But guns are about much more than that. If someone was breaking into your home to harm you, would you use the gun to protect yourself?

Me I would call on Jesus to save me.

look down now

Note - That is the name of my Rottweiler.

Originally Posted by Fenton

Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.

Originally Posted by apdst

Not once have I showed my dick to a woman and she thought it was creepy. In fact, in 100% of the cases, they were pretty excited about it. I don't know who you're showing your **** too.

3) Sometimes bad things just happen and you cannot prevent every horrible thing that could happen from happening. You could make it legal to carry a gun into every church in American, but legal or not, no one other than a psychopath is going to carry a gun into the a house of God.

Hi bro. 'Sup?

Fiddling While Rome Burns
ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
"I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."