And yet they still choose garbage wrapped in Xmas paper over raiding with you. Ask why that is and you will solve all the problems of people choosing garbage wrapped in Xmas paper over raiding in a guild.

Actually you are dead wrong. I havent had open recruitment in my guild for quite some time, so, your generalization is null and void for this guy. I'm not your typical asshole elitest and my raids are very relaxed and laid back yet are still well into heroic progression. People don't leave my guild ever, however, some I wish certainly did. If they ever did, it wouldn't be due to their treatment or ever lack of respect from another member. I don't condone assholes and I kick them from guild myself happily. All of my officers and I actually have morals and respect for other players despite their level. But, that does not mean I feel LFR is a fantastic enjoyment that gives people the real experience of killing a horde warchief.....once again it can stay or go, I dont care, my raiders use it just because. But don't lie about the experience to make you feel better about it. Thats all I am saying.

Its really sad to see just how much the current Wow playerbase hate raiding guilds...

Im guessing u were someone who had a hard time playing in a raiding guild... did u get picked on?

Aw how cute, your one of those guys who cant handle intellectual discussion and people disagreeing with them and so you compensate by making assumptions and then goes right into insulting people anonymously on a forum. How brave.

If you can read you would note that I am a Raider and I am not an elitist. Elitists are making a bad name for the rest of us who really don't care who does what with the content. Someone doing easy content for subpar rewards in LFR doesn't effect my game or my guilds progress. If anything them buying more gems and enchants just makes me richer.

Its really sad to see just how much the current Wow playerbase hate raiding guilds...

Im guessing u were someone who had a hard time playing in a raiding guild... did u get picked on?

It's not really hate for raiding guilds, it's the no desire to be in one, that's a huge difference. I can stay in my friends guild, play on my time and I don't ever need to go into vent, but I still get to kill internet dragons and get cool loot. If they removed LFR I would just go back to running 5 mans.

I may not get the best loot (gear, achievements or mounts, etc...) but I get what I want out of wow and that's to enjoy myself for a couple hours after work.

Actually you are dead wrong. I havent had open recruitment in my guild for quite some time, so, your generalization is null and void for this guy. I'm not your typical asshole elitest and my raids are very relaxed and laid back yet are still well into heroic progression. People don't leave my guild ever, however, some I wish certainly did. If they ever did, it wouldn't be due to their treatment or ever lack of respect from another member. I don't condone assholes and I kick them from guild myself happily. All of my officers and I actually have morals and respect for other players despite their level. But, that does not mean I feel LFR is a fantastic enjoyment that gives people the real experience of killing a horde warchief.....once again it can stay or go, I dont care, my raiders use it just because. But don't lie about the experience to make you feel better about it. Thats all I am saying.

Is this where I follow it up with "come at me bro, lolumad brah"

When I say 'you' I mean 'you' in a general way, like everybody.
But you are still dodging the question, why do people choose to do garbage wrapped in xmas paper as opposed to raiding in a Guild. Answer that question and you will find the real culprit and its not LFR.

Its really sad to see just how much the current Wow playerbase hate raiding guilds...

Im guessing u were someone who had a hard time playing in a raiding guild... did u get picked on?

actually its the concept of traditional raiding guild which is old and outdated, that's why most people are not raiding anymore.
being in a group with people you like is good; having schedules, social rules and stuff like that is what makes raiding guilds bad.

Actually you are dead wrong. I havent had open recruitment in my guild for quite some time, so, your generalization is null and void for this guy. I'm not your typical asshole elitest and my raids are very relaxed and laid back yet are still well into heroic progression. People don't leave my guild ever, however, some I wish certainly did. If they ever did, it wouldn't be due to their treatment or ever lack of respect from another member. I don't condone assholes and I kick them from guild myself happily. All of my officers and I actually have morals and respect for other players despite their level. But, that does not mean I feel LFR is a fantastic enjoyment that gives people the real experience of killing a horde warchief.....once again it can stay or go, I dont care, my raiders use it just because. But don't lie about the experience to make you feel better about it. Thats all I am saying.

Is this where I follow it up with "come at me bro, lolumad brah"

So let me get this right... You're a guild leader of heroic progression guild who hasn't had open recruitment in quite some time. Hey buddy, you're the 1% in WoW. You have no clue why people prefer LFR over raid guilds. It does not apply to you, at all. You really should stop trying to express your invalid opinion about something you're not even participating in and that has zero effect on you.

Armory
You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

When I say 'you' I mean 'you' in a general way, like everybody.
But you are still dodging the question, why do people choose to do garbage wrapped in xmas paper as opposed to raiding in a Guild. Answer that question and you will find the real culprit and its not LFR.

It's for one or all of the following reasons:
A) they arent good enough
B) they dont have the time
c) they play with real life friends who fall into category A or B

There is your culprit dear sir. I can 100% guarantee that if someone had the time and was good enough they would not hesitate a moment to jump into Blood Legion, Method or Midwinter's core group.

So let me get this right... You're a guild leader of heroic progression guild who hasn't had open recruitment in quite some time. Hey buddy, you're the 1% in WoW. You have no clue why people prefer LFR over raid guilds. It does not apply to you, at all. You really should stop trying to express your invalid opinion about something you're not even participating in and that has zero effect on you.

LOL my opinion is invalid? Give me a break. I see nothing but pro lfr'rs saying how guilds like mine are assholes and demean people and treat them like shit. I am showing you that is false. Sorry if I disprove your theory of all heroic progression guilds being complete assholes with no heart. Just because it proves people like you wrong doesnt make it invalid. Nice try buddy.

Thats like me saying because you arent in a heroic progression guild your opinion of them is invalid. See the issue here?

says the guy who made an assumption about people raiding with me? hypocritical wouldnt you say? maybe follow your own guidelines, double standards wont work with me I will shut you down fast

I didnt assume anything about the people raiding with you, all I said is why do people choose garbage wrapped in xmas paper over raiding with you. You're the one that said you wished some of your guild didn't raid with you based on their behavior towards other players. Not me.

I am not ignorant enough to believe that raiders or hardcore raiders are elitists, there are far more good raiders out there that don't feel they need people kissing their boots to make them feel good than elitists.

LFR has a crap load of problems, from people afking, people queueing up in wrong spec to jump the queue, people in PVP gear to jump the queue, random kicks, badly behaving players, people with no clue what they have to do to win, and yet they still choose this over raiding in a guild. Figure out why that is.

I didnt assume anything about the people raiding with you, all I said is why do people choose garbage wrapped in xmas paper over raiding with you. You're the one that said you wished some of your guild didn't raid with you based on their behavior towards other players. Not me.

I am not ignorant enough to believe that raiders or hardcore raiders are elitists, there are far more good raiders out there that don't feel they need people kissing their boots to make them feel good than elitists.

LFR has a crap load of problems, from people afking, people queueing up in wrong spec to jump the queue, people in PVP gear to jump the queue, random kicks, badly behaving players, people with no clue what they have to do to win, and yet they still choose this over raiding in a guild. Figure out why that is.

Might wanna reread my post, I did not say I wish people didnt raid with me. I said I wished some people left guild. LOL MUCH DIFFERENT. every guild has someone that doesnt hurt anyone that might just be overly obnoxious that you could do without....that goes for ANY guild not just mine as you are trying to link me to your elitest points of views. Nice try once again sir, you failed.

It's for one or all of the following reasons:
A) they arent good enough
B) they dont have the time
c) they play with real life friends who fall into category A or B

There is your culprit dear sir. I can 100% guarantee that if someone had the time and was good enough they would not hesitate a moment to jump into Blood Legion, Method or Midwinter's core group.

Actually my reason isn't A, B or C. My reason is I don't want to schedule my time and I don't want to go on vent. I have plenty of time to play (play way more than I should), I'm good enough (you'll just have to take my word on that one), although I do have friends that aren't good enough but that doesn't really affect my opinion either way.

I can 100% guarantee that if I had enough talent to be in the blood legion or method that I would NEVER do it. I feel bad about how much I commit to this game as is, I couldn't imagine getting serious and feel pressured to always stay at the top.

It's for one or all of the following reasons:
A) they arent good enough
B) they dont have the time
c) they play with real life friends who fall into category A or B

There is your culprit dear sir. I can 100% guarantee that if someone had the time and was good enough they would not hesitate a moment to jump into Blood Legion, Method or Midwinter's core group.

So you agree with me that LFR is not the reason they do not raid. I'm glad we agree.

And you need to back up a bit, I didn't call you an elitist or anyone in your guild. When I said 'you' I mean raid guilds in general, or more aptly 'Anyone reading my post that is not me.' My apologies if my intent was badly worded but I made no assumptions are to your playstyle, merely a poorly worded turn of phrase.

LOL my opinion is invalid? Give me a break. I see nothing but pro lfr'rs saying how guilds like mine are assholes and demean people and treat them like shit. I am showing you that is false. Sorry if I disprove your theory of all heroic progression guilds being complete assholes with no heart. Just because it proves people like you wrong doesnt make it invalid. Nice try buddy.

Thats like me saying because you arent in a heroic progression guild your opinion of them is invalid. See the issue here?

Don't get mad. You're participating in a discussion you have no business being in. You could say my opinion on heroic guilds is invalid... If I hadn't been in one, bit I have. Have you not been in a heroic guild? Have you only raided LFR. Yeah... Didn't think so. So don't sit here and bitch about heroic guilds getting bad wraps for being asshols because guess what? You're acting like an asshole. Asshole.

Armory
You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

Why would you post that here? You're just asking to be trolled. Go to the Blizz forums and thank them there, less likely to get a little crap from people.

Actually, I thought a little honesty from ex semi hardcore wouldnt hurt this forum.
And, Im sure Blizz reads this forum carefully, just like its their own. Or ar least, as a serious company, they should.

You want to know what LFR got rid of for me? Elitist assholes who blame people for wipes that happen by bad RNG or simple mistakes during the learning process. I do NOT miss getting yelled at for stupid crap. I like being able to choose the times I want to raid, when it's convenient for me, and not have to worry about people critiquing every time I fart and how to make it louder, longer, or smellier the next time. Sure, I made some friends. But what I remember most from raiding in guilds is getting ripped on because I died to a boss mechanic I was unfamiliar with due to it being my first time with the encounter. Nobody walks into the raids one shotting all the bosses their first time. Or their second, third, or fourth time. By the middle and end of the current raid content, people are so elitist that they won't accept anything less than perfection. It didn't even matter if someone was one of the top three on the damage meters if they died. I hated the stress I got from people who hated wiping repeatedly. Why are they even raiding if they can't handle the learning curve? I can't count the number of times I almost went off on my raid leader because of how he treated the other players in the group, and then there was the one time I did lose it... I was amazed by how quiet he got when he finally pushed someone past their limits. I almost felt powerful to know that I had put him in his place. He actually behaved respectfully towards people for a few days. But that didn't last... No, I don't miss raiding with him, and I was glad when he quit the game.