Seen a couple of lists in the decks section that look fun. I've just done a couple leagues with my old mono-black since I enjoy it (and not really in a brewing mood), saw a couple of the new cards being used - Chromium a couple times and Vivien Reid - though nothing that stood out. Was very glad to be running edicts when the esper dragon came down

Anyone had any sweet ideas with the new cards? Tempted to try some sort of Omniscience list since the format can be quite slow (maybe janky 5c Jodah).

My Angel deck is in the Constructed sub forum.

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It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Blue whites problem in singleton isn't the counters, it's the finishers. With such a low threat density and no recursion outside of Memory it's usually not hard to just grind through them - and they can only run one Teferi which is their best finisher by a mile. Though I do run discard, exiling and card draw, so maybe that's slanting my opinion. Approach is strong though, but only one copy makes it such a risky card to rely on singleton.

Blue whites problem in singleton isn't the counters, it's the finishers. With such a low threat density and no recursion outside of Memory it's usually not hard to just grind through them - and they can only run one Teferi which is their best finisher by a mile. Though I do run discard, exiling and card draw, so maybe that's slanting my opinion.

Honestly, the finishers are UW's least problem. Sure there's only one Teferi, but you have T-Hulk, Approach, Lyra, Azor and Kefnet among others. A similar thing was true for Duels; while aggressive decks struggled to get their curve going due to the low threat density, Control could mix and match a couple finishers and still had a really good deck.

But how many of those would you run? Teferi+3/4? And no small creatures? That's not a lot of stuff that's actually relevant, pretty easy to have multiple answers for all of them if there's no other targets. Meanwhile most of the other controlling decks are running more finishers and some small dudes who can just beat down. Multiple Teferis make uw so much stronger, Azor/kefnet are terrible in comparison.

But how many of those would you run? Teferi+3/4? And no small creatures? That's not a lot of stuff that's actually relevant, pretty easy to have multiple answers for all of them if there's no other targets. Meanwhile most of the other controlling decks are running more finishers and some small dudes who can just beat down. Multiple Teferis make uw so much stronger, Azor/kefnet are terrible in comparison.

Well, sure, your deck is weaker than Standard, but everyone's deck is. The difference is that you can get to late game and slam threats consistently since you have counters. While most people are trying to get to 6+ to slam bombs, UW can bleed out your opponent's bombs with counters. UW still has at least 3 good sweep effects, multiple bounce spells, a pack of relevant card draw, and some decent finishers. Sure, slamming Lyra or Dovin isn't a substitute for extra Teferis, but they still end games unchecked if you can give yourself card advantage over your opponents.

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KLD Season King of the Hill Winner.EMN Season King of the Hill Winner.

But how many of those would you run? Teferi+3/4? And no small creatures? That's not a lot of stuff that's actually relevant, pretty easy to have multiple answers for all of them if there's no other targets. Meanwhile most of the other controlling decks are running more finishers and some small dudes who can just beat down. Multiple Teferis make uw so much stronger, Azor/kefnet are terrible in comparison.

Well, take my list for reference. I'm running Teferi, T-Hulk, Approach, Angel of Sanctions (since I don't have Lyra) and Confiscation Coup (which is fairly decent in my book). I don't run a ton of early creatures (mostly Baral and Champion of Wits, both of which wouldn't be in there in Standard, but fit the deck well overall. Oh, and Nimble Obstructionist, I guess), but have enough early removal (2-mana counters, Gideon's Reproach, Seal Away, Aether Meltdown, Farm // Market) to not get run over.

Thinking about it lay claim might still be a better option, even if 7 mana can start to get seriously high, both also die to cast out, that is what I was assuming divinevert meant with "harder to pull off"

Thinking about it lay claim might still be a better option, even if 7 mana can start to get seriously high, both also die to cast out, that is what I was assuming divinevert meant with "harder to pull off"

No, I meant that I thought I needed a legendary permanent in play to cast it, ala legendary sorceries.

The argument of sorcery vs. enchantment is certainly legitimate, though (between Bolas's Clutches and Confiscation Coup). Depends on how often you think you could snag a planeswalker and the likelihood of enchantment hate. Both arguments seem to go towards Bolas's Clutches in Singleton, though. Sure, Forsake the Worldly is a possibility since it cycles anyway, but any type of enchantment hate is very niche and probably won't be in a ton of builds.

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KLD Season King of the Hill Winner.EMN Season King of the Hill Winner.

1) CMC. The difference between 5 and 6 is huge.2) Less prone to being interacted with. There's enough stuff around that just so happens to deal with enchantments (Cast Out being the main one). I'll cede that both are vulnerable to bounce, however Clutches gives an opponent with a bounce spell another option (bouncing Clutches instead of bouncing the permanent).

There's a couple cases in which Clutches is better, but overall I like Coup a bit better.

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