http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Tesseract&feedformat=atomBulbapedia - User contributions [en]2016-12-09T18:43:47ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.27.1http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Unova&diff=1281794Talk:Unova2010-12-10T22:07:44Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia? */ new section</p>
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<div>{{forums notice|March 31, 2011}}<br />
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== Interwiki link ==<br />
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Please add [[:de:Isshu-chihō]] to the interwiki list.--[[User:Afrael|Afrael]] [[User talk:Afrael|&lt;sup&gt;talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 11:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Their wiki appears to have gone down, but I'll add it anyway. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 11:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Region Image ==<br />
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The region image is just an image of Hiun City (Japanese Name) not the region itself.--[[User:Jimmyduckegg|Jimmyduckegg]] 19:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:We don't have a region map yet, though. A city in the region is the next best thing. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 01:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
There's a [http://serebii.net/blackwhite/isshubig.jpg larger version of the map] out now that shows more locations, is it okay if we add it? [[User:Vienna Waltz|Vienna Waltz]] 02:46, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Please add... ==<br />
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I would really like to stay consistent here... someone who can edit this article, please change this so this article is in the same format as Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh -- (Japanese: イッシュ地方 Isshu-chihō) along with the region infobox with that same information. Thanks :) ([[User:Yaminokame|Yaminokame]] 01:26, 13 May 2010 (UTC))<br />
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== Is this confermed? If so, where? ==<br />
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I don't know where this has been confermed. Please enlighten me on which Coro-Coro scan. [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Leiks]] [[Lucario (Pokémon)|Lucario]] [[User talk:SpecialK|and the]] [[User:Missingno. Master/Celebi Glitch|Celebi Glitch]] 15:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:[[a:File:CoroCoro_BW7.jpg|Right here]], on the left. Clearly shows a picture of at least the port town and &quot;イッシュ地方&quot; (Isshu region). ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#e072a9;&quot;&gt;ティナ&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Tina|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#728084;&quot;&gt;♫&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#728084;&quot;&gt;★&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Ah. Thanks for clearing that up. [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Leiks]] [[Lucario (Pokémon)|Lucario]] [[User talk:SpecialK|and the]] [[User:Missingno. Master/Celebi Glitch|Celebi Glitch]] 16:36, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==New location==<br />
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There's [http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml something] on Serebii about a new place called Sky Arrow Bridge which connects Hiun City to somewhere else. Should we add that? — [[User:Axxonn|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6F6FA6&quot;&gt;'''Axxonn'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Axxonn|&lt;span style=&quot;color:A66F6F&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;the&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Axxonn|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#646464&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;Awesometrainer&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:20, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's on the official site, so I guess there is no reason as to not put it here. The screen has a text below saying a big bridge crosses to Hiun City and it's name is Sky Arrow Bridge (スカイアローブリッジ).--[[User:KurowaSan|KurowaSan]] 20:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Trivia ==<br />
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Trivia section mentions that Isshu is the only region of the main games not to have an 'O' sound. Shouldn't ', if one does not include Sevii Islands' also be added to that? I mean, it is considered a region of sorts as well. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 21:14, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:It's not a region, so no. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Sevii Islands is included in the region template, right up next to the other main games' regions. I'm pretty sure it is considered one. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 21:21, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Well then, if an admin wants to add it they can. So it's their call. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:38, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Unlike the other five, Sevii's not really its own entity. No league, no gyms, nothing but a few small towns and routes on which you can catch Gen II Pokémon. It was an excuse to put Gen II Pokémon in FRLG. Out of all ''main'' regions, Isshu's the only one with no o. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 21:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Does Almia not count? It's a region. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 21:59, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Grk, strike that. [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 22:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::A suggestion. Maybe you should put Sevii Islands in parenthesis next to Kanto. To me they are merely an extension of Kanto. Just like the Battle Zone is to Sinnoh. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Is Isshu even its English name? Just out of curiosity. We can't really confirm it unless we know. ----[[User:Zewis29|&lt;span style=&quot;color:diamond&quot;&gt;Zewis&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Zewis29|&lt;span style=&quot;color:green&quot;&gt;(2&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Zewis29|&lt;span style=&quot;color:blue&quot;&gt;9)&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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In the Trivia it says the first gym has the most leaders, 3 but doesn't the [[Cerulean Gym]] have 4, [[Daisy]], [[Lily]], [[Violet]], and [[Misty]]? ''[[User:DoTheWave|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#A8A878;&quot;&gt;&lt;big&gt;D&lt;/big&gt;o&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:DoTheWave|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6890F0;&quot;&gt;The&lt;/span&gt;]][[Wigglytuff (Jungle 16)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#A8A878;&quot;&gt;Wave&lt;/span&gt;]]'' 03:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:In the anime, yes, it does. But this refers to the games only. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 03:40, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== New York? ==<br />
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No, I'm not wasting talk pages for speculating. I'm just saying that I heard one of the guys on Pokémon Sunday shout &quot;New York&quot; before the recent BW video. [[User:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Red&quot;&gt;Cu&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Tan&quot;&gt;bo&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Green color light&quot;&gt;ne&lt;/font&gt;]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;Black&quot;&gt;King&lt;/font&gt;]] 02:53, 16 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I'm sure you just misheard. If they really did it would be ''everywhere'' by now. [[User:Reign|Reign]] 17:38, 17 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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CuboneKing is right in someway. It does look alot like new york. Can I add that in the article? {{unsigned|DialgaMaster105}}<br />
:We are aware it looks like New York, but we're not gonna speculate... [[User:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Red&quot;&gt;Cu&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Tan&quot;&gt;bo&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Green color light&quot;&gt;ne&lt;/font&gt;]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;Black&quot;&gt;King&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:13, 23 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
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[http://pallettribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/huin.jpg] {{unsigned|C.Rad(-0-)}}<br />
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It does look a lot like the Manhattan region, But It also looks like southren california hiun being Los Angeles then a desert by hiun (its deserty in LA)and theres a red bridge like the one in San Fransico over a river, and there is mountains on both sides of LA like in the map that has been revealed. {{unsigned|Mismagius13}}<br />
:No more speculating on where Isshu is based on, Mismagius13! And stop adding it in! We wait for official confirmation!--[[User:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;''Poké''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;lova!&lt;/span&gt;]] 10:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Hey hey chill Mismagius has a point and the whole technology versus nature, plus the fact that Victini is found on a place called Liberty Island, plus Victni being the &quot;Wings of Victory....&quot;<br />
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This stuff of Speculation of this type belongs in the forums.But anywho,It looks like it the way it`s comeing.[[User Talk:LucarioWolf|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2C2C2C ;&quot;&gt;'''Lucario'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:LucarioWolf|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#7F7F7F ;&quot;&gt;'''Wolf'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 17:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Sky Arrow Bridge==<br />
why does this article doesn't include the name of the bridge that connect a city to huin city according to serebii it is named sky arrow bridge here is the like:<br />
[http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/isshu.shtml]<br />
[[User:Badwolf1234|Badwolf1234]] 06:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Serebii is not God. We'll get our article up in due time. We know next to nothing anyway. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 06:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Team Phantom ==<br />
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Team Phantom is the regions vilans. --[[User:Squishy|Squishy]] 23:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:And where is this informatino from?--[[User:MisterE13|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF&quot;&gt;Mister&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:MisterE13|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008000&quot;&gt;'''E'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/MisterE13|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#800080&quot;&gt;13&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It's Plasma. Leaked by way of blog that also revealed Tsutarja, Pokabu, and Mijumaru, as well as the Friz. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 10:21, 15 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Link please, TTE. We have no way of knowing what the team is until it's stated Publicly. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 16:22, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Judging from one of the things in the CoroCoro scan, it seems to me like that N guy would be the main villian. It said he wants to free pokèmon from people and is trying to obtain the power to do so. Maybe he somehow got a bunch of trainers to follow him and help him awake the main legendary of the game, like Teams Aqua, Magma,and Galactic. [[User:67h5r6h|67h5r6h]] 19:19, 15 July 2010 (UTC)67h5r6h<br />
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that's speculation... ([[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 19:22, 15 July 2010 (UTC))<br />
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== Hiun City ==<br />
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Seriously, this is getting really stupid. All of the other foreign sites have a page for Hiun City and we have more than enough information now to make it its own page. Also, someone needs to update the picture now. [[User:Pokemonemerfan1954|Pokemonemerfan1954]] 03:28, 25 June 2010 (UTC) <br />
:We have bigger isshus to deal with at the moment. &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
I agree that it is time to make an independent article to Hiun City. There are enough information and images to start it and several people who would like to contribute on that page.[[User:Toback|Toback]] 19:04, 6 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Let's confirm an original source. ==<br />
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Even an original source has changed in quality because the Pokemon fan of the foreign country hopes for NY and Shanghai too much. <br />
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&quot;isshu is far from Sinnoh, Hoenn, kanto, and johto. &quot; This information is a mistake. <br />
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&quot;Isshu&quot; is far from kanto and johto. &quot; This is true. <br />
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Please edit this false information if you want to fill Bulbapedia in the truth. The NY consideration and the Shanghai consideration are wonderful. However, the erroneous information cannot be permitted.<br />
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[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 20:23, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:Apparently, it's because of a specific particle in the original line that can be implied to mean &quot;among others&quot;. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 16:40, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:: All the article says is that it's a really long way away from the other regions. There is no mention at all of Shanghai or New York. Secondly, since we don't even know how far away Sinnoh and Hoenn are from Kanto-Johto, it's really impossible to make a distinction between far away from Kanto-Johto, and far away from all of them. I must say I also really don't even understand what this question is asking. [[User:Aura-Knight|Aura-Knight]] 16:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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&quot;All the article says is that it's a really long way away from the other regions. &quot;<br />
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Do you understand Japanese?I understand you are telling the lie because I understand completely. <br />
It is considerably far from kanto and johto. It has changed in quality , saying that &quot;It is far from all&quot; when information is spread to foreign countries. Please admit the falsification of information. Reconfirm an original source if it is not admitted. Please do not add the sentence not insisted on by an original source. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 17:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:I could wonder if you understand Japanese, you having that bad English grammar. Anyhow, I think our safest best would be to wait until we get a more clearer confirmation. And for the love of the franchise, there's no need to be rude to us. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 17:52, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::The machine translation is used. I'm sorry for making them embarrass it because of a bad English grammar. However, it is possible enough to tell the mistake.<br />
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It is the same one as the sentence of corocoro. <br />
http://gamez.itmedia.co.jp/games/articles/1005/14/news098.html<br />
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新たな舞台「イッシュ地方」は、カントーやジョウト地方とは遠く遠く離れた全く趣の異なる土地。<br />
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It is true that the fake information has been described to this page. Admit that information on the lie has been treated. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 18:05, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:First of all, Japanese is a very difficult language to learn and translate. Errors are bound to be made. We are not purposely lying, but this appears to be a simple mistake. Again, we did not purposely lie, you cannot expect everyone to always get everything perfect. Anyway, I'll let someone else handle this for now. [[User:Mudkipchan|Mudkipchan]] 18:18, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::Thank you for admitting a mistake. It is hoped that the person who has the good sense corrects a sentence when the edit becomes possible.[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 18:28, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Sawamular101さん、すみませんが、日本人ですか？ &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 19:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yes.[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 20:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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::::Sawamular, are you sure your translation is correct? and ''does it really matter'' if it says the wrong thing? Sometimes information is wrong, and sometimes it changes. It wont hurt anybody if it says the wrong thing for a couple of months until we get a confirmation in English. &lt;sub style=&quot;color:#00008B;&quot;&gt;'''[[User:Blake|Blake]]'''&lt;/sub&gt; &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]&lt;/sup&gt; 19:51, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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&quot;Sawamular, are you sure your translation is correct?&quot;<br />
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It is 100% fact. Isshu is located long away from Kanto and Johto. Please call on the friend of you who understands Japanese if you cannot trust my information. <br />
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&quot;and does it really matter if it says the wrong thing? &quot;<br />
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I want to tell it to esteem an original source. It is insincere to falsify an original source. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 20:42, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:日本語を習った時、「○○や○○」は「○○と○○などなど」・・という感じだと教えられました。それで、自分は「カントーやジョウト」が「カントー、ジョウト、などなど」の意味で理解しました。ですから、「カントー、ジョウト、ホウエン、シンオウ」という意味だと思いました。違いますか？<br />
:メチャクチャな日本語すみません。日→英の訳すのは得意なんですけど、まだ日本語で話すのはちょっと難しいんですorz &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 21:56, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::そうですねえ。。。Testing him, are we Umeko?--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 22:00, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Guys, enough with the Japanese spelling. --[[Special:Contributions/CoolPikachu!|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#00AF33;&quot;&gt;'''☆'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:CoolPikachu!|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#F8D030;&quot;&gt;'''Cool'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:CoolPikachu!|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0098d8;&quot;&gt;'''ピカチュウ!'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:01, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Umeko is testing him to make sure he's the real-deal: a true Japanese speaker. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 22:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::I'm not ''testing'' him; I believe him when he says he's Japanese. I'm trying to communicate. &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 22:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
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返信ありがとうございます。たしかに、「○○や○○」には&quot;などなど&quot;という意味も含まれますが、シンオウやホウエンからも遠いと具体的に記述されていないので付け加えるべきではないです。ホウエンやシンオウからも遠いと主張するのは、&quot;などなど&quot;という曖昧なものの憶測を膨らませた結果でしかありません。<br />
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もう一つ、「○○や○○」に含まれる&quot;などなど&quot;には、&quot;語るに値しないその他&quot;という意味も自然に含まれます。シンオウやホウエンは語るに値しない土地でしょうか？<br />
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シンオウやホウエンからも遠いのであれば、もっと適切な言葉があります。カントー・ジョウト・ホウエン・シンオウから遠い。今までの地方全てから遠い。このように表現方法はいくらでもあります。カントーやジョウトから遠いという文でホウエンやシンオウも含むのは飛躍しすぎです。<br />
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日本語お上手で感激しました。[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 22:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:そうですか。分かりました。それならば、その部分を書き直す。ありがとうございました！<br />
:To those of you watching, Sawamular has explained the use of the particle や and why I was mistaken for thinking that Hoenn and Sinnoh were necessarily included in the statement. I don't think it would be inappropriate to say that Isshu is ''assumed'' to be distant from Hoenn and Sinnoh as well, as long as we state just that: it is an assumption. It may be more accurate to say that Isshu is confirmed to be distant from the mainland (if we wish to refer to Kanto, Johto, and the other assumed regions directly neighboring them as the &quot;mainland&quot; - this is what I, personally, think of them as, but I'm not sure there's any canon backing to it), but I'll leave that up to discussion. &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 23:27, 27 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::So that means Aomori, Tohoku is open for possibility!? Heck yes! --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 00:09, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::http://www.42ch.net/UploaderSmall/source/1277686041.JPG<br />
:::Do you believe tohoku? I think that the possibility of Shanghai and Manhattan is high. There is no big city in aomori (lol.[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 00:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I personally think it's Shanghai (it even looks like {{img|BW Prerelease City entrance.png|this screenshot}} might have kanji/hanzi on the sign :O), but anyway, let's keep this discussion off the talk page, shall we? Bring it to the forums - if you're still allowed to discuss that there, I haven't been keeping much track of what's been going on over there. &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 02:26, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: ok, the topic is stopped. I do not go to the forum (Speaking by the machine translation is tired). [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 04:05, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
カントー・ジョウト・ホウエン・シンオウ地方から遠く離れた土地「イッシュ地方」<br />
<br />
New source.isshu is far from Sinnoh, Hoenn, kanto, and johto.There was no necessity of the edit.(lol<br />
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/irbj/topics/index.html#/file1 [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 08:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Just a Warrning ==<br />
<br />
There are silly and UNCONFIRMED rumors on youtube that Isshu is based on the chugoku (is that spelled right?) region of Japan.<br />
I would advise a watch of this page to prevent vandalism of the page. ([[User:Kmanecke|Kmanecke]] 00:16, 28 June 2010 (UTC))<br />
:Several steps ahead of you. The page has been protected since the page's creation because we knew people would try to put their opinions on the page. ._. ▫▫'''[[User:Tina|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#e072a9;&quot;&gt;ティナ&lt;/span&gt;]]'''&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Tina|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#728084;&quot;&gt;♫&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Tina|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#728084;&quot;&gt;★&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia. ==<br />
<br />
It should be added in the Trivia about it being the first reigon to feature different locations depending on the version (black or white) Just thought I'd say --[[User:S2daam|S2daam]] 21:29, 13 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Routes ==<br />
<br />
It should be added that the Routes in Isshu start over at Route 1 instead of Route 301. Should that be a trivia or in the main article? [[User:Pokemonemerfan1954|Pokemonemerfan1954]] 15:27, 14 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Black City/ White Forest ==<br />
<br />
I read online that Isshu would have version specific areas, Black Forest in Black, which is supposedly a stereotypical industrail city, and White Forest, A town in White that is close to nature, and even has tall grass in the town. Does anyone think it should be added to the article? [[User:67h5r6h|67h5r6h]] 19:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)67h5r6h<br />
:It will when an admin gets to it, especially when information is being released almost daily. --[[User:PsychicRider|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#78C850;&quot;&gt;'''Psy'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:PsychicRider|&lt;sub style=&quot;color:#F85888;&quot;&gt;'''ライダー'''&lt;/sub&gt;]]''[[Special:Contributions/PsychicRider|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C4E673;&quot;&gt;'''☮'''&lt;/span&gt;]]'' 19:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::TA. DA. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 20:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Add image ==<br />
<br />
The image gallery should have the image of Route 1 ([[a:Image:BW Prerelease Route 1.png]]). --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;S&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;h&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;small&gt;i&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;n&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;y&lt;/small&gt; &lt;sup&gt;N&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;small&gt;o&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;c&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;t&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;small&gt;w&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;l&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 19:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Done. --[[User:Zesty Cactus|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#006400&quot;&gt;'''Zesty'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3CB371&quot;&gt;'''Cactus'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:22, 21 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Hold on there, SN. I had asked you about the image's whereabouts on the Archives, please respond before asking it to be put everywhere. &lt;span style=&quot;color:red&quot;&gt;—&lt;small&gt;♥&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt; &lt;b&gt;[[User:Jello|&lt;span style=&quot;color:orange&quot;&gt;Jel&lt;/span&gt;]][[User Talk:Jello|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#90a8e0;&quot;&gt;lo&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/b&gt; 19:36, 21 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Sorry about that. I only go to the Archives when I need to upload an image, so I hadn't gotten your message yet. Anyway, I replied there. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;S&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;h&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;small&gt;i&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;n&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;y&lt;/small&gt; &lt;sup&gt;N&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;small&gt;o&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;c&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;small&gt;t&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;o&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;small&gt;w&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;l&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 19:41, 21 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Another warning for the mods. ==<br />
<br />
Just a quick warning because of the reveal of Bikutini (Victuni?) and how to get one (the Liberty Ticket). This may cause a surge in debates on the basis of Isshu. Not debating here, just warning. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 00:46, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:How is there evena connection between them? --[[User:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Hoenn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Master&lt;/font&gt;]] 00:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Statue of Liberty, Liberty Island. Just saying. --'''[[User:Midnight Blue|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#003366&quot;&gt;Midnight&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Midnight Blue|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8C92AC&quot;&gt;''Blue''&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 01:08, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::A &quot;warning ''for'' the mods&quot;? or a &quot;warning '''from''' the mods&quot;? Because you're not a mod yourself to be stating that in the title....--[[User:Force Fire|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;'''F'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;orce&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Force Fire|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;'''F'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[Lugia (Pokémon)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;ire&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:34, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::A warning ''for'' the mods. I'm not a mod nor do I claim to be one. If I did claim to be one, I would have used &quot;A warning for the other mods&quot;, which I did not use. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 03:36, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::But why warn the mods? they might already know this. --[[User:Force Fire|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;'''F'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[Ho-Oh (Pokémon)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;orce&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Force Fire|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;'''F'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[Lugia (Pokémon)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;ire&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::How would I know if the mods (not trying to insult a mod here) can put the pieces together and sense that there's going to be a huge region speculation rush after a video? I just put it here as a warning. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 08:08, 25 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Via Filb.de's recent update, we got a Football player as a trainer class. Continuation of the warning from before. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 05:26, 30 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
:You don't need to warn mods. They have it under control. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#A70000&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000A7&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I feeeeeel like it. &gt;:/ Not like I'm spamming it or anything. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 05:13, 31 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==New City revealed==<br />
<br />
The new Coro Coro scan reveals information about a new city called Shippo City. It has a Gym and its Gym Leader is called Aloe. Mods should add information about it.--[[User:Toback|Toback]] 14:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Got a new map image==<br />
File:Isshu_Wide.jpg<br />
<br />
But the article's locked. --[[User:Sotomura|Sotomura]] 15:36, 10 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:That file has been deleted as it's the same as [[a:File:Isshu.jpg]] &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 23:59, 12 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== It's New York ==<br />
http://sunyshore.com/scrap/bwnewyork.jpg<br />
<br />
Original source PokéJungle, reconfirmed by people who found the same magazine in Japan for themselves. Circled text reads &quot;Our adventure's setting is New York?!&quot; --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 03:36, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
:oh look, I live in Isshu...kickass...at least it's finally confirmed.. [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 03:39, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
::[http://nyextended.ytmnd.com/ Isshu!] '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51c%2BfPmQdbL._SS350_.jpg<br />
<br />
It gets into the news in Japan because it differs from the cover actually sold. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 06:08, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I was told that this image was an advertisement for the September 10 issue of the magazine. Take that for what you will. --[[User:The Great Butler|The Great Butler]] 06:15, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::http://www.gamememo.com/2010/09/06/bw-issyu-new-york/<br />
:::It is insisted that it be a cover of the early stage. It is mysterious how he obtained the cover of the early stage. Let's wait patiently because it is thought that the content of &quot;Pokemon pia&quot; is passed on in several days. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 06:22, 7 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It is described by Pokemon pia that the motif of Isshu is New York. I think it is certain because it is information from the person who bought it. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 17:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
:So it's true after all? [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 17:16, 9 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
::It seems to be mentioned in page 5. Someone might up-load the image. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 17:29, 9 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/vol1/index2.html New source. The motif of Isshu is New York. The origin of the name is so from &quot;One kind/１種類(issyurui)&quot;.[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 01:54, 10 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: [http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9573/isshu.jpg] -[[User:Pokeant|Pokeant]] 04:14, 10 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Jersey ==<br />
<br />
Ok, yeah only New York City was stated as the basis of Isshu, but shouldn't we add New Jersey too since technically the western third of the region would be where Jersey City and Hoboken are. --[[User:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Hoenn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Master&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:10, 15 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Just throwing this out there ==<br />
<br />
The magazine article from PokePia was translated and used the word &quot;Motif&quot;, not the word &quot;Model&quot; like when previous regions. Assuming that the word &quot;Motif&quot; means &quot;Model&quot; is like assuming Hoenn is based off some Tropical island and not Kyushu. Go ahead, pull this apart. But PokePia still was translated &quot;[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/motif Motif]&quot;.<br />
--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 16:56, 30 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
PokePia and the interview above confirmed that the motif of Isshu is NYC. But there's just too many discrepancies to outright say that Isshu is solely based off NYC.<br />
<br />
The ones I feel are simple enough: <br />
<br />
1 Connections to past games.<br />
<br />
If Cynthia is supposedly researching the myths of Arceus, why, may I ask, is she in a place half-way around the world from Japan? That girl from HGSS's Battle Frontier that's now the champion of Isshu? Why is she there? But most importantly, disregarding all the Pokemon from the Dream World, '''Why are there so many old Pokemon in Isshu post E4 if Isshu is on the other side of the world'''?<br />
<br />
2 Pokedex.<br />
<br />
It's still the National Dex, correct? Then why does it go from PokeJapan (1-493) to the other side of the world in Isshu (494-649)? There's all sorts of places between NYC and Japan. Shouldn't it be something like 1000-1155 instead of 494-649?<br />
<br />
3 Size.<br />
<br />
Compare the size of Isshu to the size of Sinnoh. It's bigger, right? So why would Isshu be set in an area 484 square Miles (22mi x 22mi)? And what makes NYC so important that it gets an entire region when Game Freak's office's town only gets two in-game Cities?<br />
<br />
So yeah, double edit, but only because it was confirmed that &quot;Motif&quot; was said.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 17:16, 30 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:1) Do we know Cynthia's still researching Arceus? Might she be researching other legends now? And Caitlin seems largely based on a European monarch; why would she be restricted to Japan in that case?<br />
:2) Since when are all databases organized geographically? Kanto's Pokédex entries come first in National order, even though it's smack dab in the center of Japan. And frankly, I was surprised there was so little overlap in Isshu's dex and those of other regions. After all, real-world Japan and America share many species, from rodents to insects to birds.<br />
:3) Sure, the size is inconsistent with past games. But that has occurred in past generations as well. Look at GSC Kanto compared to RBY Kanto, or less dramatically, HGSS Johto to GSC Johto. Perhaps GameFreak thought a denser, more complex area would better do justice to the scope of diversity in NYC. Or perhaps they intend to size up Kanto or Johto next time a remake comes around.<br />
:In fact, you could argue the same thing for any past regions. After all, we have never received confirmation that the past regions correspond to each other geographically the same way they do in the real world. But for the purpose of this article, motif and basis are close to the same. There are surely differences between Isshu and New York, but New York City is still the primary basis. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 18:21, 30 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
::First of all, Motif is nothing like Model. Motif is a pattern on the Model. Motif does not mean Model. Learn English. <br />
<br />
::mod·el<br />
::n.<br />
::1. A small object, usually built to scale, that represents in detail another, often larger object.<br />
::2.<br />
::a. A preliminary work or construction that serves as a plan from which a final product is to be made: a clay ::model ready for casting.<br />
::b. Such a work or construction used in testing or perfecting a final product: a test model of a solar-powered ::vehicle.<br />
::3. A schematic description of a system, theory, or phenomenon that accounts for its known or inferred ::properties and may be used for further study of its characteristics: a model of generative grammar; a model of ::an atom; an economic model.<br />
::4. A style or design of an item: My car is last year's model.<br />
::5. One serving as an example to be imitated or compared: a model of decorum. See Synonyms at ideal.<br />
::6. One that serves as the subject for an artist, especially a person employed to pose for a painter, sculptor, ::or photographer.<br />
::7. A person employed to display merchandise, such as clothing or cosmetics.<br />
::8. Zoology An animal whose appearance is copied by a mimic.<br />
<br />
::mo·tif (m-tf)<br />
::n.<br />
::1.<br />
::a. A recurrent thematic element in an artistic or literary work.<br />
::b. A dominant theme or central idea.<br />
::2. Music A short rhythmic or melodic passage that is repeated or evoked in various parts of a composition.<br />
::3. A repeated figure or design in architecture or decoration. See Synonyms at figure.<br />
<br />
::Now,<br />
<br />
::1. Sure, we don't know if Cynthia is researching Arceus still or not. We can figure that out later. But what Pokemon stands more interesting to research (from her point of view) than the Pokemon described from myth in her hometown and the one said to have created the world? That was the reason she was at the Shinto/Sinjoh Ruins. And what part of Caitlin seems largely based off a European Monarch? She has no connections to Team Plasma as far as I can see.<br />
::2. ''Since when are all databases organized geographically? Kanto's Pokédex entries come first in National order, even though it's smack dab in the center of Japan.''<br />
<br />
::Kanto is the center of Japan, basically. It was chosen because its the area surrounding Game Freak's office which makes it the center of the Pokemon World.<br />
<br />
::''And frankly, I was surprised there was so little overlap in Isshu's dex and those of other regions.''<br />
<br />
::Why would you be surprised at all? There's wide dependencies among similar Pokemon in Japan. <br />
<br />
::''After all, real-world Japan and America share many species, from rodents to insects to birds.''<br />
<br />
::Not the exact same species. And I'm pretty sure that no place shares animals (disregarding zoo's of course) of the exact same species.<br />
<br />
::It still does not make sense for the National Pokedex to skip 99% of the land between Japan and NYC. Try to rationalize that. '''I dare you.'''<br />
<br />
::3. 3) ''Sure, the size is inconsistent with past games. But that has occurred in past generations as well. Look at GSC Kanto compared to RBY Kanto, or less dramatically, HGSS Johto to GSC Johto. Perhaps GameFreak thought a denser, more complex area would better do justice to the scope of diversity in NYC. Or perhaps they intend to size up Kanto or Johto next time a remake comes around. ''<br />
<br />
::Why are you even bringing up comparisons of RBY/GSC Kanto and GSC/HGSS Johto? That has nothing to do with the comparison of DPPt Sinnoh and BW Isshu.<br />
<br />
::''In fact, you could argue the same thing for any past regions. After all, we have never received confirmation that the past regions correspond to each other geographically the same way they do in the real world.''<br />
<br />
::I'll give you that. But we do have their &quot;Models&quot; so we can logically assume that they fall in the same places in relation to each other as they do in real-life.<br />
<br />
::''But for the purpose of this article, motif and basis are close to the same.''<br />
<br />
::No, they aren't even close to meaning the same thing. If you really think that, then you need to retake English class. The purpose of this article is to post everything we '''''know''''' about Isshu. Assumptions like &quot;Motif = Basis/Model&quot; are not something we '''''know''''', they're something people '''''assume'''''. And it's confirmed that NYC is Isshu's '''''Motif'''''. '''No one''' has released Isshu's Model.<br />
<br />
::''There are surely differences between Isshu and New York, but New York City is still the primary basis.''<br />
<br />
::Just FYI, geographical terrain has been mostly kept between the games and real life. Coastlines, mountains, and generally everything about geographical features. Cities have been rearranged and mountains have become volcano's. But unless Game Freak '''really''' changed up the system, we have two unexplained mountain ranges on both sides of Isshu.<br />
<br />
::--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 05:20, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Just throwing it out there Part 2==<br />
<br />
Hey guys. Please don't argue about this here. And please don't insult other people by telling them to learn English. We don't want it and we don't care. We have a source saying that Isshu is based on NYC. That's awesome. That's all we need. If Game Freak has decided to add in extra bits from other places or even make up their own stuff that's fantastic but Isshu is based on NYC. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 06:28, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:You have a source saying that Isshu is based off New York when ''word of god'' states that New York is Isshu's ''Motif''? Please don't be pulling another Pokebeach and the secret source...<br />
:--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 12:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It is declared that Hoenn Region is Kyushu. It is said that Isshu Region is NY &quot;motif&quot;. <br />
<br />
::http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir/ No.177<br />
::イッシュ地方とした今回の舞台のモチーフはニューヨーク。<br />
::(Isshu Region) The motif of isshu is NY. <br />
<br />
::http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir/?p=105 No.15<br />
::九州を舞台にしたんです。<br />
::(Hoenn Region) Kyushu is a stage. <br />
<br />
::Because volume of information is a little, it might be small mistake that the remark is not consistent. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 14:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Basically, Sawamular just proved that your source is false. If the OFFICIAL GAME FREAK BLOG says that it's a motif, it's a motif. Not a base, not a model and not a stage. A MOTIF. <br />
<br />
:::Can we get a mod to fix this page of this completely stupid misconception that's been around since PokePia was first translated?<br />
:::--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 21:45, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::See: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/interview/irbj/vol1/index2.html#list. Masuda and co. explicitly refer to New York as not just Isshu's motif, but also its STAGE (even after reiterating the basis for the other regions). They even go on to address specific locations in NYC as the basis for various areas in Isshu. How is it not NY? [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 01:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Wow. So does that mean this isshu (lol pun) is finally laid to rest? --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 01:46, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Just for clarification purposes, where exactly on this does it say stage? My japanese is a tad rusty when it comes to Kanji... --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 01:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::My rusty Japanese is telling me he's talking about Concert stages leading to the Musical's in BW. It also references the &quot;Stage's Motif New York&quot; (で、まず舞台のモチーフをニューヨークにすることを決めると、). Well? --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 02:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: Masuda speaks the reason why NY is chosen to be a motif of BW. Masuda is said that a lot of famous theaters(Musical) are in Manhattan. I wanted to do the concert by NY.<br />
<br />
::::::: 多種でも遠くから見たときに、１種類に見えるような地方である、ということから「イッシュ」と名付けました。その感じも '''ニューヨークにすごく近いんです'''。<br />
::::::: The source that Mr. AndyPKMN had presented was seen. The supervisor is making remarks that the outlook on the world of isshu is '''near NY'''. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 02:53, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Well, isn't that vague? '''near NY'''... are you sure that translation is accurate, Sawam? Just to prevent misconceptions, you know. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 03:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::Is it possible he meant something like &quot;I feel very close to New York&quot; or &quot;It feels similar to New York&quot;? --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 03:19, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::'''ニューヨークにすごく近いんです'''<br />
:::::::::&quot;I feel very close to New York&quot;. This translation is complete.[[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 03:35, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::So, altogether, the translation does nothing further than reinforce the point that New York is Isshu's motif? Alright then. Thank you, Sawamu! --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 03:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::: The remark of Masuda strengthens grounds of motif. Because it was a motif, the word &quot;It is near(近い)&quot; might have been used. If NY is a stage, it is strange to say, &quot;It is near(近い)&quot;. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 03:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::::I don't think Masuda would use the same word twice. Motif, stage, he's a creative guy! '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 03:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::::::You're drawing at straws now, TTE. You know Masuda is a smart guy. If he was going to confirm the basis of Isshu at that time, he would have used words that would not be motif. In fact, the fact that he used the word motif instead of a simple Japanese word proves that he knows what it means and used it for that reason.<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Fix the page.<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::NOW.<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 03:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::::I really don't understand your logic here. Combine the fact the supervisors outright clarify how they've based certain locations out of specific areas in Isshu (the musicals, the bridge being based off Brooklyn Bridge, etc.) with the fact Isshu's general shape looks extremely similar to New York. If that's not enough, look at the countless U.S. cultural references in the game. Are you seriously trying to insinuate it's not based on NYC? How could it possibly be based on anything else? You say you want to go by facts, and the fact is that Masuda has attributed New York and ONLY New York as Isshu's inspiration (motif or not). That's really all we need. Get over yourself. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 05:20, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Ha. Hahahahahahahahahaaha. Ahahahahahahaha. You don't understand the logic, bub? Get a dictionary. Motif. Define it. <br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Actually, don't bother. I'll just quote what I've said before on TTEnchidna's talk page<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::&quot;So no, they would not use the word motif to describe the land's basis. They would use the word motif. Motif, when used for Hoenn, would describe Hoenn's tropical feel. Not the terrain and not it's coastline. The terrain of all regions tend to match the terrain of their real-life counterparts. Not climates. Climates have definitely been changed. But the geographic terrain is the same.<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::And FYI, Manhattan does not have dual mountain ranges.<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Also, just to check, do you understand the definition of the word &quot;motif&quot;? <br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Motif is to Model/Stage/Basis as is the pattern of a shirt to the shirt itself. The motif of a shirt could be anything: Tye-dye, pinstripe, plaid. But does that change the base model of the shirt? No, it doesn't. Say you grab 3 of the same shirts off a shirt making line before they go to dyeing. They're all the same color: a dull white. A blank slate. Then you proceed to dye the first shirt red, the second shirt blue and the third shirt purple. Does that change the base shirts' shape or anything? No. It changes the motif (color) of the shirt. <br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::This can also be applied to the Pokemon series: The motif of Isshu is New York. Take away all the cities, roads and non-geographical features. What are you left with? You're left with the base of Isshu, a location with three-peninsulas , dual mountain ranges on opposite peninsulas and a lake on the middle one. Does the geographical terrain of Manhattan match up to that?<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Simple answer: No, it does not.&quot;<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Now the question remains, coupled with the fact that a fluent speaker of Japanese (that has to use a translator to post here in english!) has stated that, based on the article ''you provided'', there is more proof for the &quot;motif&quot; side than the &quot;model/stage/basis&quot; side when it comes to New York and Isshu, why don't you understand?<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::::Now good night and have fun trying to prove me and the power of facts wrong. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 05:34, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
May I say the impression of the game of a Japanese version? <br />
<br />
The large majority of the Pokémon Trainer of isshu has a Japanese name(It was felt that it was roughly about 70%). Because the currency was yen, it felt odd though it knew that NY had been chosen as the stage(Motif). <br />
<br />
In a Japanese version, I think that I became making not to think that isshu is a foreign country as much as possible. However, a Japanese version is original.<br />
<br />
I feel the motif more correct. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 06:28, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Consider Kanto uses Pokémon ''Dollars'' in the rest of the world. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 09:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: A Japanese version separately treats Pokédollar and Yen. Pokédollar is adopted in Orre region of the Arizona motif. It is strange not to apply Pokédollar with isshu. If it is a city of the USA origin, the same currency as Orre might be suitable. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 10:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
@ Mackinz: I don't understand because I've repeatedly mentioned how Masuda proceeded to reveal the basis of Isshu's locations. For example, Sky Arrow Bridge IS based on New York's Brooklyn Bridge. It doesn't follow to say NY is merely the motif for Isshu when we know for certain that the BASIS of specific areas are taken from Manhattan and its surroundings. It doesn't even have to be attributed to Isshu as a whole because the facts so far demonstrate how NYC plays at least a partial role in the basis of B/W's region. Ergo, there is more factual evidence for New York than against it. As far as currency goes, it matters little since Isshu was long confirmed to have been a foreign land from its predecessors (i.e. across the sea, only reached by boat/plane, etc). [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 13:13, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've also re-edited the Isshu page. Disregarding my own personal opinion on the matter, we can't say for a fact that Isshu is NOT explicitly based on New York. &quot;Drawing inspiration&quot; will suffice for now. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 13:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You want me to explain Marlowe? Fine. I'll make it as simple as possible.<br />
<br />
:Anything not geographical (elevation of land, coastline) is part of the base. Everything else (climate, buildings, road, people) is part of the motif of the area.<br />
<br />
:Take Hoenn for example: Hoenn obviously has a tropical motif going for it. However, the climate is much different from that of Kyushu in real life. So we cannot say that Kyushu was the inspiration (basis) for the climate. That would be regulated to the motif.<br />
<br />
:Take also the difference in population of Hoenn and Kyushu: Hoenn has way less population. Since it doesn't maintain the population, the population does not remain part of the basis. It becomes part of the motif (I.E. the low population combined with the tropical feel makes it feel like a loosely populated tropical island which, obviously, Kyushu is not).<br />
<br />
:Now, onto buildings: Buildings are determined and built by the people living there. They also escalate the motif of the area (I.E. Fortree's Tree Houses add to the tropical feel). Since there are also a lot less buildings (similar to population), we cannot say that buildings are part of the basis because, if they did, the entire Hoenn region would not feel like a tropical island, it would feel like a city-locked island.<br />
<br />
:Now think about it, replacing Hoenn with Isshu.<br />
<br />
:Going to change the page back now.<br />
<br />
:--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 14:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Now you're just twisting the meaning of basis to match your own interpretation. No, it does not have to be solely geography-based; according to the very definition of BASIS, Isshu's Sky Arrow Bridge is BASED on New York's Brooklyn Bridge. It is the foundation for it, the fundamental groundwork. Stop trying to circumvent that. As for my re-editing the Isshu page, I'm trying to at least set up a middle ground between you and I here. Unless Masuda came right out and said, &quot;No, Isshu is not based on New York&quot; you can't say for certain that it isn't. We both know that it at least exists as some form of inspiration. It is unnecessary and downright misleading to add any more to the page than the &quot;drawing inspiration&quot; bit. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 14:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You still don't understand the meaning of motif, model, stage and basis, huh?<br />
<br />
:Didn't I tell you to get a dictionary?<br />
<br />
:Ah well. I'll just define them for you.<br />
<br />
:MOTIF<br />
<br />
:1. (5) motif, motive <br />
<br />
:(a design or figure that consists of recurring shapes or colors, as in architecture or decoration)<br />
:2. (1) motif, motive <br />
<br />
:(a theme that is repeated or elaborated in a piece of music)<br />
:3. (1) theme, motif <br />
<br />
:(a unifying idea that is a recurrent element in literary or artistic work; &quot;it was the usual `boy gets girl' theme&quot;<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
:If that isn't enough, I'll bring out some more definitions for you.<br />
<br />
:MODEL<br />
<br />
:1. (19) model, theoretical account, framework <br />
<br />
:(a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; &quot;the computer program was based on a model of the circulatory and respiratory systems&quot;)<br />
:2. (11) model <br />
<br />
:(a type of product; &quot;his car was an old model&quot;)<br />
:3. (6) model, poser <br />
<br />
:(a person who poses for a photographer or painter or sculptor; &quot;the president didn't have time to be a model so the artist worked from photos&quot;)<br />
:4. (4) model, simulation <br />
<br />
:(representation of something (sometimes on a smaller scale))<br />
:5. (3) exemplar, example, model, good example <br />
<br />
:(something to be imitated; &quot;an exemplar of success&quot;; &quot;a model of clarity&quot;; &quot;he is the very model of a modern major general&quot;)<br />
:6. (1) model, role model <br />
<br />
:(someone worthy of imitation; &quot;every child needs a role model&quot;)<br />
:7. (1) model, example <br />
<br />
:(a representative form or pattern; &quot;I profited from his example&quot;)<br />
:8. mannequin, manikin, mannikin, manakin, fashion model, model <br />
<br />
:(a woman who wears clothes to display fashions; &quot;she was too fat to be a mannequin&quot;)<br />
:9. model, modelling, modeling <br />
<br />
:(the act of representing something (usually on a smaller scale))<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
:BASIS<br />
<br />
:1. (38) footing, basis, ground <br />
<br />
:(a relation that provides the foundation for something; &quot;they were on a friendly footing&quot;; &quot;he worked on an interim basis&quot;)<br />
:2. (28) basis, base, foundation, fundament, groundwork, cornerstone <br />
<br />
:(the fundamental assumptions from which something is begun or developed or calculated or explained; &quot;the whole argument rested on a basis of conjecture&quot;)<br />
:3. basis, base <br />
<br />
:(the most important or necessary part of something; &quot;the basis of this drink is orange juice&quot;)<br />
<br />
<br />
:STAGE<br />
<br />
:1. (25) phase, stage <br />
<br />
:(any distinct time period in a sequence of events; &quot;we are in a transitional stage in which many former ideas must be revised or rejected&quot;)<br />
:2. (18) degree, level, stage, point <br />
<br />
:(a specific identifiable position in a continuum or series or especially in a process; &quot;a remarkable degree of frankness&quot;; &quot;at what stage are the social sciences?&quot;)<br />
:3. (15) stage <br />
<br />
:(a large platform on which people can stand and can be seen by an audience; &quot;he clambered up onto the stage and got the actors to help him into the box&quot;)<br />
:4. (6) stage <br />
<br />
:(the theater as a profession (usually `the stage'); &quot;an early movie simply showed a long kiss by two actors of the contemporary stage&quot;)<br />
:5. (2) stagecoach, stage <br />
<br />
:(a large coach-and-four formerly used to carry passengers and mail on regular routes between towns; &quot;we went out of town together by stage about ten or twelve miles&quot;)<br />
:6. (2) stage, leg <br />
<br />
:(a section or portion of a journey or course; &quot;then we embarked on the second stage of our Caribbean cruise&quot;)<br />
:7. (1) stage <br />
<br />
:(any scene regarded as a setting for exhibiting or doing something; &quot;All the world's a stage&quot;<br />
:8. stage, microscope stage <br />
<br />
:(a small platform on a microscope where the specimen is mounted for examination)<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
:You do remember that Junichi Masuda has said nothing more than &quot;motif&quot;, correct? Now, if he '''meant''' something else, don't you think he would use the Japanese word for stage (like he did for Hoenn and Kyushu) instead of the ENGLISH word, motif?<br />
<br />
:The fact is, no matter how you read it, Junichi Masuda and the Development team of the Pokemon series have confirmed that New York is Isshu's motif. They have not confirmed anything beyond that. For all we know, it could be explicitly based on New York. '''However''', at this point, it would be an '''assumption''' which is what I've been trying to get rid of since I started this section. ''Everyone assumes'' that New York is the basis of Isshu. ''It is confirmed'' ,not an assumption, that Isshu draws decorative inspiration (a.k.a. motif) from New York. '''''Nothing beyond that is confirmed'''''. If you continue to edit the Isshu page, I will ask Archaic to do something. <br />
<br />
:--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 14:27, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I have edited the page to maintain the same words but also to make it known that we do not know if he meant &quot;not explicitly based off of New York&quot;. Happy? --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 14:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I think you're being very unreasonable. I'll say this again. Strictly in terms of my editing the page, I'm not even claiming that Isshu is based on New York -- I'm only leaving it at the simple fact that Isshu draws inspiration from it. However, you cannot say that it isn't explicitly based on NYC because you don't know for certain whether it's based on it or not. You've clarified before that you're only trying to use the facts instead of common speculation. I agree, but the page revision shouldn't go from &quot;Isshu is based on Manhattan, New York&quot; to &quot;Isshu draws inspiration from Manhattan, New York but is not explicitly based on New York&quot;. Rather, leaving it at &quot;Isshu draws inspiration from Manhattan, New York&quot; is much more accurate to Masuda's statement and not only sets up a reasonable middle ground between us, it also agrees with your original intention to change the article. EDIT: I suppose that's good enough, though I still find it slightly unnecessary.<br />
<br />
::And please, cut the &quot;LOOK AT THE DICTIONARY&quot; crap. I've checked the dictionary and in the case of Brooklyn Bridge, the terms 'motif' and 'basis' are not mutually exclusive. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 14:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I'm working with the wording of the first paragraph (to include the word motif) as we speak. However, I did already edit in <br />
<br />
:::&quot;Like prior regions, its general layout and coastline is based upon a real-world location. It is not known where it is based exactly, but an interview with Junichi Masuda and the rest of the development team has stated &quot;Manhattan of New York is Isshu's motif&quot;. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/motif] <br />
<br />
:::While the largest of its cities, Hiun City, draws heavily on the densely-populated area of Lower Manhattan, to the north, rather than more cityscape, a vast desert lies. To the west and east, there are great mountains, as well, and rather than urban areas, aside from Hiun, most of Isshu is decidedly rural.&quot;<br />
<br />
:::Give me a few minutes.<br />
<br />
:::--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 14:49, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I guess the neutrality will suffice for me. We'll agree to disagree on the basing of Isshu, so I'll leave the remainder of this debate to anyone else wanting to pick it up. I think it's important to note though that even if Isshu isn't based on NYC, certain areas in the region are still linguistically based off their Manhattan counterparts. So NYC does at least play a role in Isshu's basing to SOME extent, which in my opinion presupposes the Isshu = New York argument.[[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 14:56, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Marlowe, the motif of Isshu is New York. That means the '''theme''' (hey look, a synonym :D) of Isshu is New York. So of course it would maintain the things that make New York recognizable. The bridges, Huin city and the similar coastline are all there for a reason. Its all for maintaining the '''theme''' of New York.<br />
:::::But I'm not debating the basis of Isshu here.<br />
:::::--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 15:12, 3 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::Let me get this straight. You admit that Hiun City has many things that New York has, even has a New York theme, but you REFUSE to believe that Isshu is based on New York and are crusading that New York is simply the motif, even going to so far as to assume that the real world and the Pokemon world are interchangeable, when Hoenn has proven they aren't?--[[User:Ryuutakeshi|Ryuutakeshi]] 17:14, 4 October 2010 (UTC) <br />
:::::::Oh, hey Ryuu! Nice to see you on Bulbapedia.<br />
:::::::I refuse to believe things that aren't facts.<br />
:::::::Fact: New York is Isshu's motif. (Confirmed by Junichi Masuda on both Game Freak's official blog and in the interview posted on Nintendo.Co.Jp)<br />
:::::::Assumption: OMFG! That means Isshu is New York! OMG!1!<br />
:::::::Fact: Motif means &quot;theme&quot;.<br />
:::::::Fact: Hoenn, when it's basis of Kyushu was confirmed, used the Japanese word for &quot;stage&quot;.<br />
:::::::Fact: Isshu, when the interview was first shown in PokePia, was confirmed to use the English word &quot;motif&quot;.<br />
:::::::Fact: Basis and Motif mean two separate things.<br />
:::::::Fact: This page used the assumption that Motif means Basis.<br />
:::::::Fact: Motif does not mean Basis.<br />
:::::::My thoughts: If Junichi Masuda used the word &quot;motif&quot; and meant &quot;basis&quot;, why wouldn't he use the same word he used when he revealed the basis (stage) of Hoenn to be Kyushu? The fact that he used the English word &quot;motif&quot; should prove he knew what he was talking about. That means that Mr. Masuda meant the word &quot;Motif&quot;!<br />
<br />
:::::::So yes, I admit that Huin City has many things New York has. I never denied that Isshu uses New York as a theme. I do deny the assumption that, because Isshu uses New York as a theme, Isshu ''is'' New York. <br />
<br />
:::::::Frankly, Ryuu, unless Junichi Masuda comes out and makes a blog saying &quot;Yeah, we used Manhattan as the stage of Isshu&quot;, we should keep the facts straight and in the open. The fact is &quot;We used New York as the motif of Isshu&quot;. Nothing to be taken any other way. Motif does not mean Model/Basis/Stage. It should not be taken any other way than the definition of Motif. And it should be allowed to discuss Isshu being based somewhere else because we do not have confirmation from Game Freak or Nintendo of where Isshu is based.<br />
<br />
:::::::Am I making sense?<br />
<br />
:::::::--[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 18:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::To be fair, Mackinz, &lt;i&gt;none&lt;/i&gt; of the regions are synonymous with their real-life counterparts. Johto isn't Kansai, Hoenn isn't Kyushu, Sinnoh isn't Hokkaido, etc. They're simply based on them. While it's true Masuda used the term &quot;motif&quot; when describing Isshu, his context doesn't exactly set it apart as a mutually exclusive term from basis. For example, we know for certain that specific areas derive inspiration from areas in NYC in the EXACT same way other regions have a basis of specific cities and buildings in their counterparts, so I think we can safely say we have enough evidence to qualify New York being the equivalent of Isshu as Kansai, for example, is the equivalent of Johto. You're correct in saying the definitions motif and basis aren't the same, but they do have similar enough contexts in the case of &lt;i&gt;comparing&lt;/i&gt; each region's confirmed area inspirations. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 19:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::::::I'll give you that, Marlowe. But still, it is not a safe assumption at this time to assume that Isshu is New York (and it is still open because of the New York motif being able to explain a lot). So can we leave it at that? I don't have time right now to debate and argue with you. --[[User:Mackinz|Mackinz of SoulSilver]] 19:30, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::::::To quote a great U.S. President, &quot;It depends on what the definition of the word &amp;lsquo;is&amp;rsquo; is.&quot; No one's saying Isshu &quot;is&quot; New York. We're saying it's &quot;based on&quot; New York. Which is true, given that motifs from New York such as the coastline, bridges, diverse culture, and lower Manhattan drive the composition of the region. You keep insisting that motif doesn't mean basis, but what do we mean when we refer to the basis of other regions? We mean that they include motifs of the real-world counterparts, including the coastline, landmarks, and cultures. Really, there's nothing separating Isshu's basis from the other regions', besides the fact that Game Freak was somewhat more open to breaks from reality (and why shouldn't they be? Unlike with previous regions, the main game staff did not include anyone native to New York, unlike with previous games.). --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 20:38, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
Okay guys, please quit it with the arguing. Isshu is based on New York, and there's really absolutely no arguing this. The context of the interview as a whole makes it clear that Isshu is the New York as Hoenn is to Kyushu, Johto is the Kansai, etc. The nuances you're arguing really aren't present, and if they are, it's not enough to sway Bulbapedia's scale of &quot;what makes X based on Y.&quot; So shut up and stop arguing, or else you are subject to a temporary block for insubordination. Thanks. &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 02:46, 5 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Outdated Notice?==<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
Is this article really outdated or is this just one of the spams. I'm going to remove it but if it isn't please put it back for me. ([[User:Pokemaster97|Pokemaster97]] 14:09, 3 October 2010 (UTC))<br />
:Yeah, it is outdated. Black and White have been released and the article needs to start looking like other region's pages now. --[[User:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Hoenn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Master&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
i updated this to the format like the other regions and it was removed!--[[User:Shaymin Master426|Shaymin Master426]] 19:56, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No you didn't. You replaced content with stuff that was already lower on the page. --[[User:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Hoenn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:HoennMaster|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Master&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Map of isshu. ==<br />
<br />
http://up3.viploader.net/game/src/vlgame026784.jpg <br />
<br />
It is isshu map of the ANIME version. It confirmed it by 001 stories. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 09:09, 21 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Good idea, but could you find a better picture?--[[User:Si6x12|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B01406;&quot;&gt;'''Si6'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User Talk:Si6x12|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#083DA7;&quot;&gt;'''x12'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:15, 21 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I obtained this image by chance. I'm sorry for being not able to offer a high-quality image. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 16:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, I would add it.--[[User:Si6x12|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B01406;&quot;&gt;'''Si6'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User Talk:Si6x12|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#083DA7;&quot;&gt;'''x12'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 20:32, 21 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A guess on Etymology ==<br />
Well I'll get the silly one out of the way: *'''Un'''*ited States *'''of A'''*merica. It makes me think of general Japanese style shortening like *'''Poke'''*tto *'''Mon'''*suta. I knew the region was based on USA, so I figured the localization was done since it's a &quot;home turf&quot; based decision like how the Japanese regions stayed untouched. I was expecting the other localizations to use Unova, but my guess on the method sort of works for the others. The following are what respective speakers call USA. French: États-*'''Unis'''* (Unys) German: Ver*'''ein'''*igte Staaten (Einall) My stab in of &quot;ein&quot; is probably improper but it does mean one, and &quot;all&quot; may be aus*'''ahl'''*. I've come across &quot;allein&quot; which can refer to &quot;single&quot;. Italian: Stati *'''Uni'''*ti d'America (Unima). The &quot;ma&quot; may refer to ris*'''ma'''*. I'm lost with the Spanish localization, I don't see any links at all. &quot;United&quot; is fairly enough though, since a literal USA basis is silly, but hey it works haha. I'm not going to bother comparing decisions made with Orre. [[User:Deadpool|Deadpool]] 09:34, 23 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Somehow I REALLY doubt it comes from United States of America. It's just too much of a stretch to assume NoA cherry picked syllables and letters from the location's basis when that's never been done before, even in the Japanese games. I think it's just derived from the meaning it has in Japanese, &quot;one variety&quot;. Uno, one, and -va, for variety. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] [[User talk:AndyPKMN|(talk)]] 13:26, 23 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
I actually doubt they'll say what it stands for (if it even is an acronym of something). No one can say for sure and all we can do is just speculate which provides no real evidence. Maybe this should be a forum topic to further discuss on on what people can guess the name stands for? - &lt;span style=&quot;background:#96EAFF;border: 1px solid#0000FF&quot;&gt;'''[[User:Vhayes1992|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;Vhayes&lt;/b&gt;]][[User talk:Vhayes1992|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#00027F&quot;&gt;1992&lt;/b&gt;]]'''&lt;/span&gt; 18:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia? ==<br />
<br />
Kagome &amp; Shippo are character names from InuYasha, while Yakon is a monster from DBZ.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 22:07, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Giratina_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281344Talk:Giratina (Pokémon)2010-12-10T09:33:45Z<p>Tesseract: /* Origin(s) section should be revamped */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Forme info|487{{#ifexpr: ({{#time: H}} mod 2) = 0||O}}.png|Ghost|Dragon|[[Form differences#Giratina|Giratina's Formes]]|Giratina as though it were in the {{#ifexpr: ({{#time: H}} mod 2) = 0|[[Pokémon world]]|[[Distortion World]] or holding a {{DL|Type-enhancing item|Griseous Orb}}}}, therefore being in its {{#ifexpr: ({{#time: H}} mod 2) = 0|Altered|Origin}} Forme|the artwork shown in the infobox, the anime image shown, the base stats entry which is unhidden, the Pokéathlon stats entry which is unhidden, and the type effectiveness entry which is unhidden|hour}}<br />
<br />
==Previous discussions==<br />
* [[Talk:Giratina (Pokémon)/Archive 1]]<br />
<br />
== Origin(s) section should be revamped ==<br />
<br />
I searched and searched, but found no info on &quot;Garathena&quot;. Nor do I see why the word &quot;Giraffe&quot; would have any bearing on its name. The rest of the info seems fine except for the whole Izami thing, I don't see how that relates to Giratina at all. [[User:EmptyStar|EmptyStar]] 00:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Instead of giraffe, why not replace it with {{wp|qilin}} (''kirin'' in Japanese) instead? [[User:神奇超龍|神奇超龍]] 15:26, 5 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Becasue nothing in the name &quot;Giratina&quot; seems to sound anything like quilin/ kirin. [[User:EmptyStar|EmptyStar]] 04:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
It's long neck is probably why it was associated with giraffe. Is it me, or does Giratina resemble Deathscythe from Gundam Wing?[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 09:33, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kyogre_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281343Talk:Kyogre (Pokémon)2010-12-10T09:28:27Z<p>Tesseract: /* Origin */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Moveset==<br />
<br />
It doesn't learn Hyper Beam other than TM. Look at the Moveset. {{unsigned|Dark Sage}}<br />
:That means nothing to the anime, where a Pokémon is capable of anything in its movelist (as TMs don't exist). Like Pikachu with Iron Tail (TM move) and Chikorita with Vine Whip (Egg move). --[[User:DarkfireTaimatsu|DarkfireTaimatsu]] 05:52, 13 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
::Oh. Ok. {{unsigned|Dark Sage}}<br />
<br />
==God of Water?==<br />
<br />
Never once do the games or anime suggest that Kyogre, Groudon, or Rayquaza are gods. Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and Arceus are considered gods, but not the weather trio. As such, this trivia is pure speculations and has not merit. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 16:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
:It ''created the ocean''. In ancient Egypt, they used to consider the Nile River like a god because it was that basis of their civilization. I think creating the entire ocean is enough for someone to call it a god... Although I guess you have a point, it's never actually been considered a god... So let's just try and avoid the god title... [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::It may have created the ocean, it may not have. It obviously has drastic effects upon the nature of the oceans when it's powers are unleashed. However, it was never called a god in-game nor in-anime nor in-manga, no matter how god-like it is, it can't be considered a god. [[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] 00:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes... I just said that. [[User:M190049|'''''~m190049''''']]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:M190049|'''''~talk''''']]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:46, 4 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::@[[User:Kumori Satosuke|Satosuke]] I would presume the weather trio are just incredibly influential on nature. Arceus is the only Pokemon anywhere near a god. Dialga and Palkia are only considered so because of the spacetime control. I think Giratina has something to do with antimatter so it and the Distortion World are just a balance to the regular matter universe. {{unsigned|494alex}}<br />
<br />
== Anime Page ==<br />
<br />
Hey, we all know anime pages refer to Pokémon that appear in a Pokémon movie. Since movie 9 is the only time it appeared, I suggest an anime page should be made about it. I know it only appeared around the end of movie 9 and didn't have much to do in the movie, but how about we do make the anime page? Oh, and not to annoy people, I won't make unless and until we decide to make it.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;DRAGON&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|&lt;font color=&quot;yellow&quot;&gt;BEAST&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;X&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:58, 14 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:It had only appeared in the end of the movie like what you have said and the length of its appearance was way too short for it to become notable. ×'''[[User:Kevzo8|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#A2958D&quot;&gt;Ke&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Kevzo8|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B8B8D0&quot;&gt;vz&lt;/span&gt;]][[User_talk:Kevzo8|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#705898&quot;&gt;o8&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 06:23, 14 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You're right... I was thinking of comparing the way it appeared to Regigigas in movie 11... even though I haven't seen that movie, it seems that [[Regigigas (anime)|its anime page]] says that it had a bigger appearance, huh? I guess an anime page shouldn't be made, then.--[[User:Dragonbeastx|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;DRAGON&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:Dragonbeastx|&lt;font color=&quot;yellow&quot;&gt;BEAST&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Dragonbeastx/The Aura Spot|&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;X&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:58, 15 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Trivia Section==<br />
You see where it says in Rayquaza Kyogre and Groudon's Trivia section that they are the only version mascot legendaries without signature moves, shouldn't it also be said that this is probably because they have signature ABILITIES instead? I mean I don't any other Pokémon with Drizzle, Drought or Air Lock (thouh the Psyduck family have Cloud Nine, which does the same thing as Ray's ability). All other version mascot legendaries have Pressure, except Giratina Origin Forme which has Levitate. {{unsigned|494alex}}<br />
Good point. and remeber to sign with &lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;. [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK Leiks Lucario and The Celebi Glitch]] 15:02, 24 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Shadow Kyogre image==<br />
Moonlight Umbreon:i have a shadow kyogre image!I just don't know how to put it in that page. {{unsigned|Moonlight umbreon}}<br />
:You need to upload it [[a:Special:Upload|on the Bulbagarden Archives]]. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 01:40, 27 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia Error ==<br />
Did/Does Suicune have a signature move? According to the trivia, all legendary mascots have had one except for this generation's. The Groudon page also has a similar error. [[User:Poisson14|Poisson14]] 02:15, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
:No, Suicune doesn't have a [[signature move]], (although it is associated with {{m|Aurora Beam}}) the article already says this-&quot;Kyogre, along with Groudon, '''Suicune''' and Rayquaza, are the only legendary Pokémon who are the version mascot of a main game, but lack a signature move.&quot; --[[User:Beligaronia|Beligaronia]] ([[User talk:Beligaronia|talk]]) 02:44, 16 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Hidden Tower==<br />
Do you need the Kyorge from HG or any Kyorge?--[[User:Skymin23|FlyingSkymin23]] 00:28, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The Kyogre from HG. [[User:FireMeowth|FireMeowth]] 00:42, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
::OK, I guess i need both games.--[[User:Skymin23|FlyingSkymin23]] 00:53, 2 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Origin ==<br />
<br />
I noticed similarities between Kyogre and the First Nations mythological Kumugwe.<br />
Kumugwe is the Kwakwaka'wakw god of the sea. One of his most important totem animals is the Orca and masks of him are depicted as blue with red trim and white bits with fish eyes and gills.<br />
(example: <br />
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/FF6837EF-9628-422A-8FE9-625CD130F6EE/IH011593.jpg <br />
)<br />
Is this worth noting at all or am I just crazy?<br />
[[User:GLBX|GLBX]] 05:24, 2 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
A lot of Pokemon seem to be based on mythological figures/animals, there was a faq on Gamefaqs for some of the older games detailing each Pokemon's origin themes.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 09:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Rayquaza_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281342Talk:Rayquaza (Pokémon)2010-12-10T09:21:36Z<p>Tesseract: /* Speculation */</p>
<hr />
<div>Where did all the moves from before lv. 70 come from? And for Groudon and Kyogre, where did the ones before level 45 come from? Are they just speculation?--[[User:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Obsessed&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Minun&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color =&quot;gold&quot;&gt;Fan&lt;/font&gt;]] 02:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)<br />
:It's what the move tutor says it learns at those levels, I believe. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 02:53, 28 August 2006 (UTC)<br />
::I just got Rayguaza, Groudon, and Kyogre on Emerald yesterday, and I'm looking at the Move Tutor thing right now. It doesn't list the levels anywhere. Is the person who posted them still active here?--[[User:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Obsessed&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Minun&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color =&quot;gold&quot;&gt;Fan&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe people got that info by using a GameShark to get a very low level wild Rayquaza. That is the best way to get to know from what level the Pokémon learns the moves. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 12:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== how are the status calculated ==<br />
<br />
hi,<br />
i would like to ask, how are the status graphic calculated, i mean i was trying to capt a pattern, but I just could not, i mean max speed for groudon and Kyogre at lv.100 is 306 and it is represented as a 90 in the graphic. same for rayquaza, max attack an sp.attack is 438 at lv.100 and the graphic shows 150 for both stats. so, how can i calculate the equivalent for the other pokemon? Please help me with this... :S<br />
<br />
::See [[Stats#Formula]]. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Rock Smash==<br />
It doesn't learn Rock Smash in Generation 4? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
:It does. Someone must've left it out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 01:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Speculation==<br />
Well i was looking at the other 2 super-ancients and i thought, the markings on those 2 are, and this is proven in the anime, made by the orbs. and Rayquaza has similar markings, so does he have an, yet to be revealed, orb? [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 15:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think his orb will be revealed any time soon. Because in the anime Ash travels to another region every 5 or so seasons. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::We've gone past the third generation now so I would be surprised to see any further development on the weather trio. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 15:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Kyogre was in the Manaphy movie, so that makes me think that they won't be completely ignored.[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 15:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::That was still Generation III. Of course they won't be ignored (see the Mismagius filler) but new information is being relegated to the Gen IV legends right now. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 15:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::Sure there is often new information revealed on older Pokémon (for example, the episodes where Misty returned new information about Togepi/Togetic became revealed) but new information regarding Legends is pretty rare, especially something big like orb. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 16:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::Well, it would make a great part of a movie. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It makes me wonder if there will be a movie to feature ''all'' the Legendaries battling it out to see who is the supreme Legendary. I would definately see that. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;midnightblue&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;maroon&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 01:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think that would be possible, when the amount of Pokémon are growing so are legendaries. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 10:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::True, the battle may just end up destroying everything anyway. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;midnightblue&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;maroon&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It would be awesome though. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 21:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To get back to the topic about the markings: Maybe Rayquaza's markings are also created by the orbs? Rayquaza is part of the Weather Trio, so couldn't the orbs affect Rayquaza as well? [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't think so; Groudon raised lands and Kyogre raised seas, what did rayquaza do? [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 07:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Although it wasn't stated in the show or games, Rayquaza could have done something with the ozone/atmosphere like raising oxygen levels to support more life.--'''[[User:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CC99CC&quot;&gt;いぬ&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CCCCCC&quot;&gt;みみ&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 21:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
Rayquaza kept them from fighting, so they could raise the land &amp; sea... duh :P<br />
<br />
== Sprite Changes? ==<br />
<br />
Okay this might be nothing, but in the 3rd gen sprites inside it's mouth Rayquaza got Blue Color, while in the DP sprites inside it's like black or dark pink?<br />
:I think its worth noting.ShinyPiKa 22:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
::So do I, add it to the trivia section if you'd like. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 22:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Forgot to check back and see this discussion. In the first edit of this topic I didn't know I had to write my name, date and time. Sorry :/. [[User:Fidani16|Fidani16]] 16:12, 23 October 2008.<br />
::::No need to apologize for something that happened over a month ago. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 14:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Origin, Name Origin ==<br />
<br />
I don't see the resemblance of the Ziz in Rayquaza. I also don't see the resemblances of the Behemoth and the Leviathan in Groudon and Kyogre, respectively. Do we know where this information came from?? Can it be cited from anywhere?? I'm just wondering where that information came from, because it does not seem very believable to me. And also, I don't understand how Rayquaza's name can be derived from &quot;ray&quot;... [[User:Bnjelinski|Soon to be Mrs. Shirley]] 14:13, 18 October 2008<br />
:It's not physical ''resemblance'' to Behemoth/Leviathan/Ziz, it's their thematic similarities. Both groups are huge, primordial monsters of land, sea, and sky.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 14:21, 18 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Wait, how do you know what Ziz looks like? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 06:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a giant bird big enough to block out the sun. Good enough, really.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 13:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guardian of the Skies ==<br />
I think its appropriate to put &quot;Guardian of the Skies&quot; in there [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 12:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Who told you that? '''[[User:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;h&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;fc&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;X&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 16:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I agree with Hfc2x...but now that i think about it, didn't Rayquaza try to keep deoxys from entering the atmosphere in the 7th movie? And in mystery dungeon red and blue, Rayquaza also stopped the meteor that was heading straight for the planet. --'''[[User:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CC99CC&quot;&gt;いぬ&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CCCCCC&quot;&gt;みみ&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 19:01, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Then it's better to explain why it is the &quot;Guardian of Skies&quot;. If it's supported by official sources, then I will not opose. '''[[User:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;h&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;fc&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;X&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 02:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Can't you do that? I don't know how to say it. [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 05:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== second ==<br />
<br />
is it me or is rayquaza cathable a second time i see it again when i beat it .&lt;small&gt;- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Slappy|Slappy]] ([[User talk:Slappy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Slappy|contribs]]){{ #if: | &amp;#32;{{{2}}} |}}''&lt;/small&gt;<br />
:It's you.--The [[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Kk&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;ll&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;ator&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| カメックス]]&lt;/small&gt; 22:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::That happened in my pearl game. i battled and caught Palkia the first time i saw it. and later after i beat the rest of the game plot, i went back up to spear pillar and saw another palkia and i caught it. i don't know how that happened. --'''[[User:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CC99CC&quot;&gt;いぬ&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CCCCCC&quot;&gt;みみ&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 22:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::: Either a) You are lying,<br />
:::b) it was a glitch, or, <br />
:::c) the game was hacked and/or fake.--The [[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Kk&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;ll&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;ator&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| カメックス]]&lt;/small&gt; 22:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flying Type==<br />
I've noticed other pokemon's trivia sections, such as Heatran, include the fact that they have the highest of an individual stat for a specific type. Rayquaza has the highest attack and special attack of all flying types, but I was wondering whether this was worth noting, due to the fact that flying is and has always been a secondary type.<br />
<br />
== The Japanese Name ==<br />
<br />
Rekkūza? That doesn't sound similar enough to &quot;Rayquaza.&quot; At least, that's what I believe. If it was &quot;Rekkueza,&quot; then it would be similar, but... '''[[User:SharKing|&lt;font color=&quot;#330099&quot;&gt;Shar&lt;/font&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;background:#330099; color:#FFFF00;&quot;&gt;K&lt;/span&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FFFF00&quot;&gt;ing&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:SharKing|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF0000&quot;&gt;Productions&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;''' 04:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Ask GameFreak. It's their choice, really.—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:If it would be &quot;Rekkueza,&quot; then its Japanese name would be レックェザ, right? Hmm... [[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 12:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm glad someone else but me caught this. Yeah, I was about to ask about this myself. What do the official Japanese names say?<br />
<br />
The trivia now say &quot;座 ''za'', from universe&quot;. As far as I know 座 has nothing to do with the universe, except that you can find it at the end of constellation names. I even checked some dictionaries to be sure. 座, especially when pronounced &quot;za&quot;, means &quot;the place where one sits&quot; i.e. &quot;seat&quot; or &quot;location&quot;. So 烈空座 (Rekkūza) could mean something like &quot;one that sits in the ferocious heavens&quot;. I'll go ahead and change the article. Feel free to revert, but then please discuss why. --[[User:Spenvdm|Spenvdm]] 14:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Why is this and every other pokemon article protected? ==<br />
<br />
^question.<br />
<br />
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Read message from the editor on the main page and the latest story on Bulbanews. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:39, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Main picture ==<br />
<br />
Why aren't we using its Emerald artwork anymore? [[User:Taromon777|&lt;span style=&quot;color:turquoise; font-family:Arial Black&quot;&gt;'''''Taromon'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] 20:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hmm? The current picture is Ken Sugimori's artwork for R/S/E. Unless you're talking about a different &quot;main&quot; picture? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|&lt;font color=&quot;#237d00&quot;&gt; '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''&gt;'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|&lt;font color=&quot;#237d00&quot;&gt;''.cнаt'''''^'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Ken Sugimori released new artwork for Rayquaza when Emerald was released (like he did for the Hoenn starters), I'm sure it used to be used in the article. The current picture is fine though. [[User:Taromon777|&lt;span style=&quot;color:turquoise; font-family:Arial Black&quot;&gt;'''''Taromon'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia. Three fingers. ==<br />
<br />
Japanese Dragons is three fingers. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 20:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Quetzocoatl ==<br />
<br />
It also could resemble Quetzocoatl, because it's markings remind me of Kecleon, which looks Aztec. I nammed mine Shenron, after the Eternal Dragon in Dragonball Z... Uh, I mean Kai... -_-*[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 09:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Rayquaza_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281341Talk:Rayquaza (Pokémon)2010-12-10T09:19:46Z<p>Tesseract: /* Quetzocoatl */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>Where did all the moves from before lv. 70 come from? And for Groudon and Kyogre, where did the ones before level 45 come from? Are they just speculation?--[[User:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Obsessed&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Minun&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color =&quot;gold&quot;&gt;Fan&lt;/font&gt;]] 02:06, 28 August 2006 (UTC)<br />
:It's what the move tutor says it learns at those levels, I believe. --[[User:Pie|Pie]] 02:53, 28 August 2006 (UTC)<br />
::I just got Rayguaza, Groudon, and Kyogre on Emerald yesterday, and I'm looking at the Move Tutor thing right now. It doesn't list the levels anywhere. Is the person who posted them still active here?--[[User:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Obsessed&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;Minun&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/ObsessedMinunFan|&lt;font color =&quot;gold&quot;&gt;Fan&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)<br />
:::I believe people got that info by using a GameShark to get a very low level wild Rayquaza. That is the best way to get to know from what level the Pokémon learns the moves. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 12:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== how are the status calculated ==<br />
<br />
hi,<br />
i would like to ask, how are the status graphic calculated, i mean i was trying to capt a pattern, but I just could not, i mean max speed for groudon and Kyogre at lv.100 is 306 and it is represented as a 90 in the graphic. same for rayquaza, max attack an sp.attack is 438 at lv.100 and the graphic shows 150 for both stats. so, how can i calculate the equivalent for the other pokemon? Please help me with this... :S<br />
<br />
::See [[Stats#Formula]]. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Rock Smash==<br />
It doesn't learn Rock Smash in Generation 4? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)<br />
:It does. Someone must've left it out. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 01:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Speculation==<br />
Well i was looking at the other 2 super-ancients and i thought, the markings on those 2 are, and this is proven in the anime, made by the orbs. and Rayquaza has similar markings, so does he have an, yet to be revealed, orb? [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 15:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think his orb will be revealed any time soon. Because in the anime Ash travels to another region every 5 or so seasons. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 15:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::We've gone past the third generation now so I would be surprised to see any further development on the weather trio. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 15:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Kyogre was in the Manaphy movie, so that makes me think that they won't be completely ignored.[[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 15:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::That was still Generation III. Of course they won't be ignored (see the Mismagius filler) but new information is being relegated to the Gen IV legends right now. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 15:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::::Sure there is often new information revealed on older Pokémon (for example, the episodes where Misty returned new information about Togepi/Togetic became revealed) but new information regarding Legends is pretty rare, especially something big like orb. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 16:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::Well, it would make a great part of a movie. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 14:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It makes me wonder if there will be a movie to feature ''all'' the Legendaries battling it out to see who is the supreme Legendary. I would definately see that. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;midnightblue&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;maroon&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 01:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think that would be possible, when the amount of Pokémon are growing so are legendaries. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 10:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::True, the battle may just end up destroying everything anyway. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;midnightblue&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;maroon&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::It would be awesome though. [[User:LordKaien|LordKaien]] 21:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To get back to the topic about the markings: Maybe Rayquaza's markings are also created by the orbs? Rayquaza is part of the Weather Trio, so couldn't the orbs affect Rayquaza as well? [[User:Diachronos|Diachronos]] 16:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't think so; Groudon raised lands and Kyogre raised seas, what did rayquaza do? [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 07:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Although it wasn't stated in the show or games, Rayquaza could have done something with the ozone/atmosphere like raising oxygen levels to support more life.--'''[[User:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CC99CC&quot;&gt;いぬ&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CCCCCC&quot;&gt;みみ&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 21:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Sprite Changes? ==<br />
<br />
Okay this might be nothing, but in the 3rd gen sprites inside it's mouth Rayquaza got Blue Color, while in the DP sprites inside it's like black or dark pink?<br />
:I think its worth noting.ShinyPiKa 22:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
::So do I, add it to the trivia section if you'd like. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 22:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Forgot to check back and see this discussion. In the first edit of this topic I didn't know I had to write my name, date and time. Sorry :/. [[User:Fidani16|Fidani16]] 16:12, 23 October 2008.<br />
::::No need to apologize for something that happened over a month ago. [[User:TheBlazikenMaster|TheBlazikenMaster]] 14:20, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Origin, Name Origin ==<br />
<br />
I don't see the resemblance of the Ziz in Rayquaza. I also don't see the resemblances of the Behemoth and the Leviathan in Groudon and Kyogre, respectively. Do we know where this information came from?? Can it be cited from anywhere?? I'm just wondering where that information came from, because it does not seem very believable to me. And also, I don't understand how Rayquaza's name can be derived from &quot;ray&quot;... [[User:Bnjelinski|Soon to be Mrs. Shirley]] 14:13, 18 October 2008<br />
:It's not physical ''resemblance'' to Behemoth/Leviathan/Ziz, it's their thematic similarities. Both groups are huge, primordial monsters of land, sea, and sky.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 14:21, 18 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Wait, how do you know what Ziz looks like? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 06:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::It's a giant bird big enough to block out the sun. Good enough, really.--[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 13:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Guardian of the Skies ==<br />
I think its appropriate to put &quot;Guardian of the Skies&quot; in there [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 12:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Who told you that? '''[[User:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;h&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;fc&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;X&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 16:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I agree with Hfc2x...but now that i think about it, didn't Rayquaza try to keep deoxys from entering the atmosphere in the 7th movie? And in mystery dungeon red and blue, Rayquaza also stopped the meteor that was heading straight for the planet. --'''[[User:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CC99CC&quot;&gt;いぬ&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CCCCCC&quot;&gt;みみ&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 19:01, 1 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Then it's better to explain why it is the &quot;Guardian of Skies&quot;. If it's supported by official sources, then I will not opose. '''[[User:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;h&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;fc&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Hfc2x|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000000&quot;&gt;2&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#008800&quot;&gt;X&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 02:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Can't you do that? I don't know how to say it. [[User:DragonTamer|DragonTamer]] 05:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== second ==<br />
<br />
is it me or is rayquaza cathable a second time i see it again when i beat it .&lt;small&gt;- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Slappy|Slappy]] ([[User talk:Slappy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Slappy|contribs]]){{ #if: | &amp;#32;{{{2}}} |}}''&lt;/small&gt;<br />
:It's you.--The [[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Kk&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;ll&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;ator&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| カメックス]]&lt;/small&gt; 22:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::That happened in my pearl game. i battled and caught Palkia the first time i saw it. and later after i beat the rest of the game plot, i went back up to spear pillar and saw another palkia and i caught it. i don't know how that happened. --'''[[User:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CC99CC&quot;&gt;いぬ&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:InuMimi|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#CCCCCC&quot;&gt;みみ&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 22:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::: Either a) You are lying,<br />
:::b) it was a glitch, or, <br />
:::c) the game was hacked and/or fake.--The [[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;Kk&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;ll&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;ator&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| カメックス]]&lt;/small&gt; 22:18, 3 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Flying Type==<br />
I've noticed other pokemon's trivia sections, such as Heatran, include the fact that they have the highest of an individual stat for a specific type. Rayquaza has the highest attack and special attack of all flying types, but I was wondering whether this was worth noting, due to the fact that flying is and has always been a secondary type.<br />
<br />
== The Japanese Name ==<br />
<br />
Rekkūza? That doesn't sound similar enough to &quot;Rayquaza.&quot; At least, that's what I believe. If it was &quot;Rekkueza,&quot; then it would be similar, but... '''[[User:SharKing|&lt;font color=&quot;#330099&quot;&gt;Shar&lt;/font&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;background:#330099; color:#FFFF00;&quot;&gt;K&lt;/span&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FFFF00&quot;&gt;ing&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:SharKing|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF0000&quot;&gt;Productions&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;''' 04:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Ask GameFreak. It's their choice, really.—[[User:Urutapu|Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？]] ([[User talk:Urutapu|talk]] &lt;small&gt;•&lt;/small&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Urutapu|contribs]]) 06:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:If it would be &quot;Rekkueza,&quot; then its Japanese name would be レックェザ, right? Hmm... [[User:Palkia38|Palkia38]] 12:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I'm glad someone else but me caught this. Yeah, I was about to ask about this myself. What do the official Japanese names say?<br />
<br />
The trivia now say &quot;座 ''za'', from universe&quot;. As far as I know 座 has nothing to do with the universe, except that you can find it at the end of constellation names. I even checked some dictionaries to be sure. 座, especially when pronounced &quot;za&quot;, means &quot;the place where one sits&quot; i.e. &quot;seat&quot; or &quot;location&quot;. So 烈空座 (Rekkūza) could mean something like &quot;one that sits in the ferocious heavens&quot;. I'll go ahead and change the article. Feel free to revert, but then please discuss why. --[[User:Spenvdm|Spenvdm]] 14:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Why is this and every other pokemon article protected? ==<br />
<br />
^question.<br />
<br />
[[User:Weedle Mchairybug|Weedle Mchairybug]] 21:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Read message from the editor on the main page and the latest story on Bulbanews. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:39, 15 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Main picture ==<br />
<br />
Why aren't we using its Emerald artwork anymore? [[User:Taromon777|&lt;span style=&quot;color:turquoise; font-family:Arial Black&quot;&gt;'''''Taromon'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] 20:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Hmm? The current picture is Ken Sugimori's artwork for R/S/E. Unless you're talking about a different &quot;main&quot; picture? --[[user:Jioruji_Derako|&lt;font color=&quot;#237d00&quot;&gt; '''J'''ïörüjï '''Ð'''ērākō.'''&gt;'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;[[user talk:Jioruji Derako|&lt;font color=&quot;#237d00&quot;&gt;''.cнаt'''''^'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Ken Sugimori released new artwork for Rayquaza when Emerald was released (like he did for the Hoenn starters), I'm sure it used to be used in the article. The current picture is fine though. [[User:Taromon777|&lt;span style=&quot;color:turquoise; font-family:Arial Black&quot;&gt;'''''Taromon'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia. Three fingers. ==<br />
<br />
Japanese Dragons is three fingers. [[User:Sawamular101|Sawamular101]] 20:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Quetzocoatl ==<br />
<br />
It also could resemble Quetzocoatl, because it's markings remind me of Kecleon, which looks Aztec. I nammed mine Shenron, after the Eternal Dragon in Dragonball Z... Uh, I mean Kai... -_-*[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 09:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Move_variations&diff=1281333Talk:Move variations2010-12-10T08:57:28Z<p>Tesseract: /* Elemental Surfs? */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Template? ==<br />
<br />
This page was an excellent idea, but I wonder if there's a way to indicate in each move's article when it belongs to one of these &quot;archetypes&quot;. --[[User:Johans|Johans Nidorino]] 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I suggested it but it was forgotten later on; and unfortunately, I don't know how to make templates. -([[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC))<br />
:Template namespace. I'll whip one up. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New Variation ==<br />
<br />
There neeeds to be a Move Variation for the Following moves:<br />
* {{m|Psybeam}}<br />
* {{m|Bubblebeam}}<br />
* {{m|Aurora Beam}}<br />
* {{m|Sludge}}<br />
* {{m|Spark}}<br />
I have checked them all out and they each have:<br />
* Power: 65<br />
* Accuracy: 100%<br />
* PP: 20 <br />
P.S. I don't know how to do this myself so really I'm asking for somebody to do this for me!<br />
[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 16:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I'm not sure if this should be counted as they each have a different added effect, either a [[status ailment]] or a [[stat]] change. Somebody gie me their:view...[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 20:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Maybe keep the status-changing ones together, and keep the stat-changing ones together, but keep them separate. That means {{m|Psybeam}}, {{m|Sludge}}, and {{m|Spark}} go together, and {{m|BubbleBeam}} and {{m|Aurora Beam}} go together.<br />
:And don't forget to use the {{template|m}} template for moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
By the way, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm not sure on how to create the move variation. I only realised they were similar... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== &quot;Or&quot; ==<br />
<br />
Is &quot;10 or 15&quot; valid [[Move variations#Variations of Shadow Ball|here]]? I'd say the use of every possible move variation no matter the amount of PPs it has would require a redefinition. BTW, {{m|Ice Beam}} and {{m|Thunder}} don't belong in the tables they've been introduced in if following the original criterion. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 05:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Sorry, I put those there. I'll have them removed. [[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 08:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:LOL, now somebody else did the same with variations of Slash, Waterfall, and Shadow Ball :P --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
People are no longer respecting the &quot;PPs&quot; part of the definition. With &quot;Variations of Flamethrower&quot; the article mentions neither 15 nor 10 now. If this is going to continue, maybe Bulbapedia's definition on &quot;move variations&quot; should no longer include PPs, which seems to be the least important of the three columns. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Seismic Toss and Night Shade? ==<br />
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Those belong on the list, right?<br />
[[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 20:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Doesn't {{m|Night Shade}} do somewhere from 1 to 1.5x the level? I know {{m|Seismic Toss}} does the level. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 23:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
::No, Psywave does from 0.5 to 1.5x the level. But Night Shade always does damage equal to the level. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Still, they don't have the same amout of default total PPs. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
::They're stretching it nowadays though. Hmm...{{m|Zap Cannon}} and {{m|Dynamicpunch}}... [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D5AA00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
Well, I'm sure {{m|Stone Edge}} and {{m|Cross Chop}} are variations. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 07:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Definitely ^_^ --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
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==Stub?==<br />
Is it Still a stub?--[[User:Torchic-ken|Torchic-ken]] 2:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, there's a few missing bits. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 00:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== Mean Look/Block/Spider Web? ==<br />
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I noticed there isn't a section for these three moves, and while Block and Mean Look fit a &quot;5 PP, Prevents foe from escaping&quot; description, Spider Web only has one thing setting them apart and that's the PP issue. Should I add it anyway? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|TinaTheKirlia]] 01:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Add only Mean Look and Block. That's what has been done in these cases to agree with the current definition of &quot;move archetypes&quot;. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 08:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== Counter and Mirror Coat? ==<br />
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I'm really surprised no one did this - they both have 10PP, varying power, 100% accuracy and they both go last and counter the foe's attack at two times the power. I was trying to find a good way to summarize it though - how's this? &quot;Goes last and counters the move used by the foe at twice the power&quot;. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E75480;&quot;&gt;Tina&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E75480;&quot;&gt;The&lt;/span&gt;]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E75480;&quot;&gt;Kirlia&lt;/span&gt;]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 21:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
:That works. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;TTE&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 23:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== Softboiled and Milk Drink ==<br />
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Even though they're listed under variations of Recover.. they both can do something Recover can not -- heal other Pokémon's HP outside of battle. I think this deserves a mention. :P [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== Contests? ==<br />
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I think it would be incredibly useful to have a version of this page for contests, since many of the moves do the exact same things.<br />
Thoughts...? [[User:Maki|Maki]] 13:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I agree. However it'd have to be set up differently. It'd be like... effect, cute moves, beauty moves, smart moves, tough moves, cool moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Blizzard ==<br />
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Are Magma Storm and Focus Blast ''really'' variations of Blizzard? Neither inflict a status ailment and Magma Storm sounds more like a multi-turn move. The only similarities seem to be 120 power<br />
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Also, I think Thunder should be added as a variation. It has 10 PP, not 5, but it causes a status ailment, has 120 power and 70 accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Thunder and Blizzard also have their accuracy at 100% when used during a specific weather condition. Magma Storm seems most like Outrage, though that goes 2-3 turns, and Focus Blast is just... its own thing. Not ''every'' move has a counterpart, that's what people need to remember. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
::That's what I mean, a lot of the moves I mentioned, as well as Hydro Pump, Seed Flare and Fire Blast are all ''similar'', but variations of each other? I'd say they're similar moves, but not direct variations. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes. Variations: Do the same thing. Similarity: have the same PP, power, or accuracy but don't do the same thing. Outrage and Thrash are variations, despite Outrage now being 120 power. Focus Blast and Blizzard are not because all they share is accuracy and power. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::So, should we move some of the moves I mentioned around? That's what I've been suggesting. I think Magma Storm should be grouped with Outrage and Thrash, and Blizzard, Thunder and Gunk Shot should be in a group. Maybe Seed Flare and Focus Blast too, their effects are identical except for accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 00:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Order==<br />
Why aren't they in alphabetical order? {{u|MathijsP}}<br />
:Beats me. Last time I organized them I put them in order by damage. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Dragon Claw, X-Scissor, Seed Bomb==<br />
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Aren't these all variations? They all do 80 damage, have 15 PP, and no added effect. Can I add them? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:You forget to mention the accuracy, but it happens that it's the same! So yeah, they're move variations. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
Great. I guess I'll add them now. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Actually, I don't think I know how to do the template. Can someone else do that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Nevermind, I got them. :) --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Ice Beam?==<br />
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Ice Beam has only 10 PP, yet it's claimed to be a variation of Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, which have 15 PP. Can I remove that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Ice Beam is the most useful of all three, but is still the same. Same power, accuracy and rate to inflict a status problem. Part of Ice Beam may be the fact frozen Pokémon are helpless. [[User:Gywall|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF8800&quot;&gt;'''Gyw&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FFAE00&quot;&gt;all'''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])&lt;/sup&gt; 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Ice Beam is one of the more visible move variations in normal gameplay. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 21:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Ah. I see. OK. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 00:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Air Slash? ==<br />
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I wonder if, shouldnt Air Slash be in the &quot;variations of Slash&quot; since it IS a Slash move after all? o: what do you people think? I havn't really looked up the PP, accuracy and power, but its very similar to Night Slash and Slash. :c--[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 17:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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:Slash and Night Slash have high critical-hit ratios, Air Slash may cause the opponent to flinch. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;midnightblue&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;maroon&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 17:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Ahh, ok thanks. --[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Pound &lt;-&gt; Gust? ==<br />
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Gust isn't a variation of Pound, is it? - [[User:FireHazard|Hazardous FIRE!]] 00:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Yes it is. 35 PP, 40 power, 100% accuracy&amp;ndash;yup, variation. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] &lt;small&gt;([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]])&lt;/small&gt; &lt;small&gt;([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]])&lt;/small&gt; 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Arm Thrust ==<br />
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I read that the accuracy of Arm Thrust was 100 percent, but it was under the variations of Barrage, saying that its accuracy was 85 percent. Is its accuracy 85 or 100, cuz I don't wanna do an edit with wrong info.---[[User:Hitmonchan90|Hitmonchan90]] 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Bulk Up and Calm Mind?==<br />
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They both have 20 PP, and raise Attack and Defense/Special Attack and Special Defense one stage, respectively. Variants? All signs point to yes. [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]]<br />
:Yep, variations. Added. --[[user:Baby G|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF4500;&quot;&gt;Baby G]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;([[user talk:Baby G|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D1E231;&quot;&gt;talk to me]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;small&gt;([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B87333;&quot;&gt;see my edits]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/small&gt; 21:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Reorganised ==<br />
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Since the moves were looking kinda messy, since the order was somewhat random, I went and moved the sections around to order it A-Z. Exceptions being Elemental X and the OHKO moves as they are listed differently. [[User:Gywall|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF8800&quot;&gt;'''Gyw&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FFAE00&quot;&gt;all'''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])&lt;/sup&gt; 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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I believe the order was by Base Power of the attacks. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Sections for both {{m|Tail Glow}} AND {{m|Agility}}? ==<br />
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I've noticed that there are two sections that both share similar attributes, both sections detail moves that have 20 PP but increase a stat two stages, however, One details just Special attack raisers while the other details the other ones.<br />
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Should there be two or should they be put together? [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I was thinking the same thing, but then I found out that all the listed variations of Agility (including Agility itself) have ''30'' PP, and that Tail Glow and {{m|Nasty Plot}} have ''20'' PP. --[[user:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;Cho&lt;/span&gt;]][[user talk:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;col&lt;/span&gt;]][[special:contributions/chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;ate&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Agility has 30 PP.Otherwise, I would say yes--[[User:DCM|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF1111&quot;&gt;DCM&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:DCM|((&lt;font color=&quot;#DAA520&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:Contributions/DCM|&lt;font color=&quot;#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;Contributions&lt;/font&gt;))]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br />
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I just noticed that now as well ^^; [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Crabhammer ==<br />
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Both Crabhammer and Blaze Kick ''used'' to be signature moves. Should this be noted? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 21:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think it should. &lt;sup&gt;&lt;big&gt;[[user:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;Cho&lt;/span&gt;]][[user talk:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;col&lt;/span&gt;]][[special:contributions/chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;ate&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/big&gt;&lt;/sup&gt; 21:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Lock-On/Mind Reader ==<br />
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How about them? [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D5AA00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;''ht''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I remember them having the exactly same effect, so if my memory serves me right, they could be added. &lt;span style=&quot;color: #3FFF00; font-weight: bold&quot;&gt;UltimateSephiroth&lt;/span&gt; &lt;sup&gt;(&lt;span style=&quot;color: #003FFF&quot;&gt;[[User:UltimateSephiroth|user]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|contrib]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/sup&gt; 23:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::How about {{m|Whirlwind}} and {{m|Roar}}? [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D5AA00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;''ht''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== {{m|Spikes}} / {{m|Toxic Spikes}} ==<br />
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Should these be parterned up?--[[User:RexRacer|'''&lt;font color=&quot;#E7CE6B&quot;&gt;Rex&lt;/font&gt;]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;#42528C&quot;&gt;Racer&lt;/font&gt;''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''&lt;font color=&quot;#FF5A00&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''-talk''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/font&gt;''']] 16:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Don't forget about {{m|Stealth Rock}}, too. &lt;sup&gt;[[user:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;Cho&lt;/span&gt;]][[user talk:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;col&lt;/span&gt;]][[special:contributions/chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;ate&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== This page needs work ==<br />
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First of all, should PP be accounted for or not? Right now, some do and some don't. I don't really care which one we go with, so long as it's consistent.<br />
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Second, effects are not being grouped together consistently either. Example: Spark has a 30% chance of inducing Paralyze. Psybeam has a 10% chance of inducing Confusion. 30 != 10. Another example: Flamethrower has a 10% chance of inducing Burn. Surf has 0% chance of inducing anything at all, and has a different target range on top of that. Also, the diffence between &quot;Acid Armor variations&quot; and &quot;Amnesia variations&quot;? Ignoring the PP difference (the Acid Armor variations already do this anyway), who really cares if they raise Special stats or not? You could just as easily group them by Defense or Attack stats. On the other hand, I say just go with &quot;raises a stat by two stages&quot; and leave it at that.<br />
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Third, I do not think &quot;non-[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volatile volatile]&quot; means what you think it means. Why not just put &quot;non-damaging effect&quot; or something else a bit more clear and grammatically correct? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I never thought PP should be accounted for. A lot of the moves might have the same PP but if all the important other stuff is the same, the moves are pretty much variations! [[User:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#BB0000&quot;&gt;'''''~Toastypk'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#770077&quot;&gt;'''&lt;sup&gt;Loom.&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;''']] 05:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Thief and Covet will never be counted as variations if taking PP into account. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And that's the sad thing, they're pretty much the same kind of item-stealing damaging move. PP is a moot point! [[User:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#BB0000&quot;&gt;'''''~Toastypk'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#770077&quot;&gt;'''&lt;sup&gt;Loom.&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;''']] 00:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::If there's only one thing different about a move variation, it can still be considered a variation. For example, {{m|Surf}} is one of the {{m|Flamethrower}} variations, because it has the same power, PP, and accuracy. The only thing different is the effect. [[User:Chocolate|&lt;font color=&quot;6D351A&quot;&gt;Chocolate&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;([[User talk:Chocolate|&lt;font color=&quot;6D351A&quot;&gt;Chat with Me&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Actually, you could argue that Surf is a variation of Earthquake, since they have the same range and the same effect (none). Surf has more PP and less power, but it also has two things different from Flamethrower: range and effect. See? You can't just go &quot;Oh they're close ENOUGH&quot;, you have to pick your criteria and stick with it. Either effect counts or it doesn't count. Either range counts or it doesn't count. Either PP counts or it doesn't count. If you start flubbing things, that's only going to make things more complicated down the line. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Earthquake has the anti-{{m|Dig}} effect. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Good point, that's another thing they have in common, since Surf can hit during Dive too. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't think there needs to be a set of rigid rules for move variations. By definition, variation implies differing conditions, character, and degree. That said, I do think that a move variations should have identical or ''very'' similar effects. PP and base power are relatively unimportant to me, when two moves have unique identical effects. Consider Bind, Fire Spin, and Whirlpool: they are all multi-turn attacks that trap their foe. They work exactly the same, and have relatively unique effects (only a handful of moves work like this). However, Bulbapedia currently only considers Fire Spin and Whirlpool as &quot;variations&quot;.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 03:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I think that trapping should have its own page. It's not as if the creators sat around and thought, &quot;Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a clone of this move for that element?&quot; I think the process was more like, &quot;Hey, why not have this as a mechanic?&quot; --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 05:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Minor problem with that though. Ember, Flamethrower and Fire Blast (and probably others but those are the big ones) all have a 10% chance of causing burn. Moreover, they're all Fire attacks. If we go solely by effect, then that makes them variations of each other. So then we have moves that are multiple variations in one. Is that really ok? I mean, I can see it going either way...<br />
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:::::One possibility is to split it into two things, where there are moves that are strictly exact copies of each other minus type and specific effect (not % chance of effect though, that has to say the same), and then other moves that just do the same thing but are not exact copies. Like, if I want to look for moves that cause Burn, there could be a category that I could go to and look there, and likewise for moves that cause trapping, or moves that hit everyone on the field. Does that sound reasonable? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 01:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::::I'm not talking about secondary effects like 10% of burn or confusion. I agree that there should be a [[list of moves that burn]] (not a category, unfortunately), but I don't think they should be considered variations. In my mind, examples of move variations are moves that have some unique game mechanic, such as {{m|Wrap|multi-turn}} {{m|Magma Storm|trapping}} {{m|Sand Tomb|moves}}, {{m|Fly|moves with}} {{m|Dig|an initial}} {{m|Shadow Force|invulnerable}} {{m|Dive|turn}}, {{m|Block|moves that}} {{m|Spider Web|prevent}} {{m|Mean Look|escape}}, or {{m|Protect|moves that can negate}} {{m|Detect|all negative effects}}&amp;mdash;Moves that work so similarly that there are, for example, abilities that negate the set of them or moves that counter-act a set of them. These should be considered move variations.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 01:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Starting tabs over.<br />
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I've always considered anything that does not cause damage on an otherwise damaging move to be a secondary effect so I think we are going to differ in thought there, unfortunately. Example: Razor Wind requires charging, has a high crit rate and deals damage, so the charging and high crit rate are both secondary effects. Screech causes only Defense down, so Defense down is the primary effect.<br />
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Taking each thing in turn, I don't think that just because Wrap and Magma Storm both cause multi-turn trapping is enough for them to be considered variations. They ought to have a page specifying this, but this does not make them variations, in the same way as Ember and Flamethrower. Ditto with with the semi-invulnerable moves. They are different enough (note which moves can hit which during the invulnerable turn, not to mention Power) to warrant an obviously acknowledged ''similarity'' but not actual variations.<br />
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As for your last two examples, those moves DO essentially do the exact same thing in every way, with the exception of PP, so I think, if we decide to exclude PP from the criteria (which I am fairly convinced we ought to do by now), then yes, I would consider those move variations.<br />
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(Somewhat off-topic, why not a category instead of a page? Then there would be links from the moves pages themselves, so they can actually be found... The Pokédex has tons of categories, I've noticed...) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Also, {{m|Mud-Slap}} and {{m|Sand-Attack}} are both Ground moves with a 100% chance of lowering Accuracy, and this can be prevented by abilities such as {{a|Keen Eye}}, but they're still clearly not variations of each other, right? (Asking because I consider Wrap and Bind and the like to be moves with 100% chance of causing trapping) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Why aren't Wrap and Magma Storm variations? They have the same primary effects (inflict damage over several turns at the end of each turn) and secondary effects (trap target during those turns). (Though there's no official source ordering those as primary and secondary; they could just as easily be reversed.) I realize that Ember and Flamethrower also have the same primary and secondary effects, but another issue I pointed out above is ''unique game-mechanics''. There are a hundred moves that have the same primary effect as Ember and Flamethrower (inflict damage) and very similar secondary effects (10% of a major status ailment). However, there are only 5 moves that work like Wrap and Magma Storm. I think that makes them remarkable enough to be noted as move variations.<br />
::Since the definition of variation means details can vary. That means we could consider numerous damaging moves to be variations of each other. But I don't think it's notable if they don't have something that sets them apart from other moves.<br />
::(As for the category thing, I don't know for sure, but the tons of categories issue might be the reason they didn't want even more categories for each detail.)&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 02:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It seems to me like what you want would be better expressed in a different page, like &quot;Moves that cause the same unique effects&quot; ...Okay, &quot;same unique&quot; is a bit oxymoronic, but you know what I mean. ^^;<br />
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:::The reason I chose Mud-Slap and Sand-Attack as examples is because they ARE unique, in that Accuracy is not a standard stat, and there are only 5 moves that lower accuracy (and none that raise it, I think): Mud-Slap, Sand-Attack, {{m|Flash}}, {{m|Mirror Shot}}, and {{m|Muddy Water}}, but these are clearly not similar in any other way but that. (Asides from Flash and Sand-Attack, I would consider those variations of the other, with Gen IV's de-nerfing of Flash.) This page seems to have been created to illustrate which moves have only minor differences, with Power, Accuracy and % effect and PP cited specifically as things that must be the same. No matter which way you cut it, the only thing Wrap and Magma Storm have in common is their secondary multi-turn trapping effect, and I consider multi-turn trapping damage to be a single secondary effect (You are never going to have one of those moves inflict one without the other). Primary effect defaults to damage except for moves that do not ever deal damage. The game even categorizes them as Physical [[Image:PhysicalIC.gif]] and Special [[Image:SpecialIC.gif]], not Status [[Image:StatusIC.gif]]. You can cite their uniqueness, but there are only so many moves that do unique, specific things, like Burn, or charge, or high-crit, but then you'll end up with almost every move out there having at least one if not multiple variations. If you want to get really unique, {{m|Flame Wheel}} and {{m|Sacred Fire}} are the only moves that can thaw out their user. That makes them variations according to your definition, but they have nothing in common according to the definition already defined on this page. I think this all does deserve to be noted somewhere, but I don't think this is the right place, is what I'm trying to say. ._.; [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::I am aware that calling certain moves variations of each other would go against the narrow definition of move variations already defined by this page, but I think it is incorrect. I give up though, so I'll just continue ignoring it.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 04:40, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Protect? Detect? ==<br />
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Aren't they variations of each other? --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 08:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Someone should go down this whole talk page and just do it. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Phred: They have the same effect, it looks like, but Detect has half of Protect's PP, so no, not according to our definition.<br />
::Raijinili: What? --[[User:Martonimos|((&lt;font color=&quot;#008000&quot;&gt;Marton&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Martonimos|&lt;font color=&quot;#50C878&quot;&gt;imos&lt;/font&gt;))]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Although there are moves that say &quot;10 or 15 pp&quot; or something similar, so maybe... --[[User:Martonimos|((&lt;font color=&quot;#008000&quot;&gt;Marton&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Martonimos|&lt;font color=&quot;#50C878&quot;&gt;imos&lt;/font&gt;))]] 08:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I think a difference in PP is a poor reason not to consider two moves as variations of each other. They obviously have the same effect.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 08:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::To the point where the two moves share the same success rate. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 23:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Rock Slide and Air Slash ==<br />
Both have 75 BP, 30% Chance of Flinch, and 95(?) Accuraccy. I think that makes them variations on the same move.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 16:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Thief and Covet ==<br />
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The only item-stealing damaging moves, with same power and accuracy, are yet to be covered here. I dropped a line earlier in hopes of the issue being picked up by more people, but it failed, my mistake. So I chose to be more direct in approach and now I ask, if other moves have ignored PP in favor of more relevant traits, shouldn't these two be listed as variations? I think there even used to be a template for both, but it got deleted. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== {{m|Glare}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} ==<br />
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Same effect, PP, accuracy and power (or the lack of it), varies on type only . These are variations, so I'll add them, but I don't know how to put the template on the move pages... {{u|Mr. Charlie}} 22:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Strength as first in a variation ==<br />
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I've realized that Dragon Claw and the others are exactly like Strength but in type, so i've changed that, and made Strength as the first in the variation. This is my first edit, i hope it's all-right, I don't know if the move wasn't in there because it is a HM.<br />
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--[[User:PokeTech|PokeTech]] 12:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Kudos for effort there. But yeah, we don't include HMs so it'll have to go back to how it was. Sorry. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::''we don't include HMs'' Doesn't explain Waterfall, and no, &quot;it wasn't a HM originally&quot; doesn't seem like a good rationale to me. [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, I hadn't realized this at the time, but the variations of Waterfall have the flinching effect. And I see what you mean when you say that about not explaining it well. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Weather Moves ==<br />
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Aren't the weather moves variations of each other? Or at least Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Snadstorm/Hail? I mean, they all change to a weather for five turns. [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 18:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess you could consider them variations of each other, but I've never really thought of them like that. I'd wait to add it untill more people agree or disagree. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 18:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::They all change weather but their effects are different. Well, indirectly. — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 21:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::That's the thing... I don't know if it should be added or not... they're like the elemental punches (damage + chance of status problem), because they change the weather condition during the battle and have a side effect... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Go for it. Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail are all exactly the same (IIRC) and Sandstorm has 5 more PP. I'm not sure whether that matters, coz you guys had a huge argument about that... &amp;mdash; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000C8&quot;&gt;THE TROM&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] &amp;mdash; 23:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Should I add it as &quot;Variations of *insert weather move*&quot; or as &quot;Weather Conditions/Moves&quot;? I'll add it anyways, but should it need to have the title changed I'll do that. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Or should it be, like the original question, Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Sandstorm/Hail? Eh, I'll put it all together for now and it can be changed later.... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Powders and Flattering ==<br />
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How come that {{m|PoisonPowder}}, {{m|Sleep Powder}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} aren't move variations? They have the same accuracy, animation, the same Contest appeal and Pokémon learn them around the same time, it kind of makes sense that they are.&lt;br&gt;<br />
Also {{m|Flatter}} and {{m|Swagger}} are variations as they both confuse but Swagger ups attack and Flatter ups Special Attack, I'm not sure how to add them lmao, I thought I should say it here first though ;) --[[User:Ripp145|Ripp145]] 12:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Apparently, Flatter only raises Special Attack one stage, while Swagger raises Attack by two stages. Also, both have different accuracy. Too many differences to qualify. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The powders aren't considered variations yet?! ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Red&quot;&gt;Cu&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Bronze&quot;&gt;bo&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Green&quot;&gt;ne&lt;/font&gt;]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;Black&quot;&gt;King&lt;/font&gt;]] 02:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::If we're discussing variations to add, I have a couple suggestions.<br />
:Arm Thrust as a variation of Barrage<br />
:Bind and Wrap as variations of Fire Spin<br />
:Dark Pulse as variation of Zen Headbutt<br />
:Fire Blast and Megahorn as variations of Blizzard<br />
::With all these variations, they share identical effects, power and PP. The only difference between the suggested moves and the established moves is that accuracy is a tiny bit higher or lower. Also, some of the moves listed as variations don't qualify but are listed anyway. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Okay, I made a change that in hindsight I'm unsure of. In Gen 3, Leaf Blade fit the requirements to be considered a variation of Slash - 70 power, 15 pp, 100% accuracy, high chance for critical. But in Gen 4 it's power is 90, and it has its own variation now, Attack Order. So....what do we do? IMO, it should be considered variations of both, depending on the Generation. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 04:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yeah, no. The Barrage variations all have the same power and accuracy, Arm Thrust only has the same power. Fire Blast and Megahorn are different than Blizzard for a lot of things: Fire Blast has more accuracy, Megahorn has more accuracy, Megahorn has no secondary effect. Dark Pulse has more accuracy than Zen Headbutt. Bind, Wrap, and Fire Spin all have differnt accuracies. There's more to this page than just &quot;Oh, it looks similar or has similar accuracy/PP/Power/type!&quot; There's reasons that most of these aren't on there. The ones that don't seem like they fit are included because they either were the same, or are now the same. And Leaf Blade doesn't count, because it's already in a category that's more specific. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 20:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Why does Leaf Blade not count? It fit all the requirements before it's power was changed, if it doesn't count than neither does Zap Cannon as a variation of Dynamic Punch. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And like I said, there's already moves listed as variations that don't fit the requirements to count, or the requirements are flexible like &quot;move does X or Y&quot;. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I went through the list, here's some examples of the above:<br />
::Blizzard's requirements are &quot;5 or 10 PP&quot;, because otherwise Thunder wouldn't qualify. Also, Focus Blast doesn't qualify because it doesn't cause a status ailment<br />
::Zap Cannon is listed as a variation of Dynamic Punch, but it has different power.<br />
::Seed Flare is listed as a variation of Fire Blast, but it doesn't cause a status ailment.<br />
::Surf is listed as a variation of Flamethrower but doesn't cause a status, and it says so right on the page<br />
::Giga Drain's requirements again, &quot;5 or 10 PP&quot;.<br />
:I'm just saying, why are exceptions made for some moves to count them as variations, and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::PP is the only exception we make for differences. Zap Cannon and DynamicPunch are different than Leaf Blade. Did you even bother READING what I said about Leaf Blade other than that it doesn't count? It's in a category that's much more specific. It's with [[Template:Leaf Blade|Attack Order]]. Seed Flare and Fire Blast have the same power and accuracy, and both can have a secondary effect. As for Surf, I've always wondered that. I'll take that out of the template and this page. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes I did read it, and I asked why Leaf Blade counts for Attack Order over Slash, when at times it has fulfilled the requirements to be a variation of both. And in that case, I'll assume Focus Blast gets the same exception as Seed Flare does. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Moves can't be in more than one category, which is why Leaf Blade is with Attack Order, since they match exactly except for type. And you're still missing what I've been saying. If they have different accuracies, they don't match. Focus Blast has 70%, and Seed Flare has 85%. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I am paying attention to what you're saying. Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Focus Blast does not cause a status ailment as the other variations do, and Seed Flare doesn't either. Zap Cannon and Focus Blast have different powers. So why are they listed? And again, ''Leaf Blade can count as a variation of both Slash and Attack Order'', so why do we count one over the other? Why are some exceptions made and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:No, I don't think you are. Focus Blast has a ''secondary effect'' like the others do, it's not limited to status or stat changes. As for Zap Cannon and Focus Blast, I just realized that yeah, it shouldn't be there. I'll change that too. If we put Leaf Blade in the Slash variations, then there wouldn't be one for Attack Order. And yeah, Leaf Blade ''used'' to be in both categories. It's not anymore. It has more power than Slash. The only ones that I can find that have different powers as of Gen IV are the Petal Dance variations. I'll see what I can do about that too. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::That would be nice. I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, and I'm sorry for arguing with you. I'm just noticing a double-standard in regards to the variations of some moves and want them sorted out one way or the other. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't mind. Arguments need to be more than just &quot;I'm right, you're wrong!&quot; and stupid things like that, and thankfully this wasn't one of those times. This article has also had some issues with getting things like that straight, so glad you said something or it would have stayed that way. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 22:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::No problem. I admit I'm biased though, when I think of move variations I'm not as tight in my requirements as this page. I still feel like Hydro Pump ought to be a variation of something, but it doesn't fit any profiles here. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Lock-On and Mind Reader ==<br />
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Why aren't they here? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Swapping moves ==<br />
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Heart Swap (maybe), Power Swap, and Guard Swap. All Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. What do you think? [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Support. Don't forget {{m|Skill Swap}}! [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::That's ability though... also, what you did is a redirect. Learn... [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Still a Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. As for redirect, so? It's a talk page. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Argh... no... may as well say EVERY single status move. It doesn't matter typing as long as it's related. As for redirect, this still applies... [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, not &quot;every&quot; status move. I see four moves with &quot;Swap&quot; in their names all of which involve switching some sort of statistic with the opponent. What's the problem? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Never mind. We'll keep it as that then. [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 03:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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So we're adding them? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Screech Variations ==<br />
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Couldn't Cotton Spore be a Screech Variation? It's not a sound move, but it does lower one target's speed by two levels and has the same PP and Accuracy. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 04:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== {{m|Karate Chop}} and {{m|Poison Tail}} ==<br />
25 PP, 50 power, 100 Accuracy, high critical-hit ratios. What do you think? Also, would this need a new template to stick on the bottom of the move pages? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Creating and adding. Any other moves that could go on this template? '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 13:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think so, I looked at the other Critical Hit moves, none fit the definition. {{m|Air Cutter}} is close but its not exact. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 15:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Alright. Just wanted to make sure nothing needed to be added. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Counter Moves ==<br />
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Hey, i'm a fan of the counter moves and i've noticed something, why isn't Metal Burst counted as a variation? I've used Mirror Coat and Counter with Glaceon and Hitmonchan respectively and Metal Burst does the effects of '''both''' Mirror Coat and Counter. [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Because they aren't very close. If the effect has something different (such as Metal Burst has both, while Mirror Coat and Counter only have one), it isn't a variation. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 13:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Counter specifically only repays physical damage double what was taken, and Mirror Coat specifically only repays special damage double what was taken. Metal Burst repays 1.5 damage, or what was taken plus half of that amount. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 19:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Kisses ==<br />
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{{m|Lovely Kiss}} and {{m|Sweet Kiss}} <br />
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Same accuracy, same PP. First cause sleep, second - confusion. Aren't move variations? --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Tackle and Peck together? ==<br />
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{{m|Tackle}} and {{m|Peck}}<br />
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The two moves are in a grouping together, but I believe they should not be. They share the Base Power of 35, but while Tackle is 95% accurate, and it mistakenly says Peck to be, Peck is 100% accurate. -- [[User:Mattman324]] 22:58:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Peck and Tackle aren't variations. Especially in generation V, where Tackle received a BP of 50. Myself, I would put Peck with Vine Whip, because they both have 35 BP, 100% accuracy and no special effect. Their PP, however, differs significantly, but does that really matter? (see below) --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Signal Beam ==<br />
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I know it seems weird, but {{m|Signal Beam}} is kinda of a variation of the elemental punches... 75 power, 100 acc, 15 PP and 10% of causing status. It breaks the &quot;tradition&quot;, so to speak, but it fits more than many of the other variations here. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 23:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==This page needs COLOR!==<br />
Seriously, it looks really dull, which is especially bad seeing as it's pretty much all tables. One of the coding wizards here should try to make a template that incorporates colors for the type of each variation and whether they are physical, special, or a status move. For status moves, color them differently based on which stat they change or status effect they inflict—whatever it takes to make this dull-looking article into an attractive resource. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 16:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was just thinking of that myself, then I thought something like this would be perfect. But, you know, with colors for generations and stuff. I'm not a coding guy, I just throw the ideas. I don't mind working on the entire page, if needed, but I really don't know how. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 12:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
{| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background: #ddf; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #ccf;&quot;<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| border=1 width=&quot;100%&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; style=&quot;background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #ddf; border-collapse:collapse;&quot;<br />
|- style=&quot;background: #ddf;&quot;<br />
! {{color2|000000|Move}}<br />
! {{color2|000000|Elemental types|Type}}<br />
! {{color2|000000|Damage category|Cat.}}<br />
! {{color2|000000|Generation|Gen}}<br />
{{tutormv|U-turn|Bug|cat=Physical|IV}}<br />
{{tutormv|Volt Change|Electric|cat=Special|V}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
That looks good. You can probably lose the class=&quot;sortable&quot; since the tables are all small. And make sure you use the region colors for the generation. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 10:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah... The &quot;how&quot; with the generation/region colors is my issue here. Could you, or anyone, show me how to do it? Really not my area of expertise. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 21:58, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::How's this &lt;small&gt;Edit: link removed&lt;/small&gt; for a quick mock-up? &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I likey. Let's use it. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 11:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I like the idea, but don't forget that it will take longer to load this page.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PP ==<br />
<br />
In the article it says that moves need to have the same PP to be variations, but throughout the article it lists moves of differing PP as variations. Should they be removed? [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 17:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Yeah, I would think so. You can't have the article contradict itself, can you? &lt;code&gt;;)&lt;/code&gt; [[User:The Exterminator|The Exterminator]] 17:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I agree, for my edit and talk page reasons. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::An article indeed shouldn't contradict itself. That's why the definition itself needs to be altered. --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Definition ==<br />
<br />
The definition isn't specific enough. &quot;Move variations are moves that are identical to each other in terms of damage, PP, and accuracy, but have different elemental types, damage categories, or secondary effects.&quot; The definition works for damaging moves but according to it almost all status moves that have the same PP are variations of each other. So I'm thinking maybe the article needs a different definition for status moves? [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 17:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:How about something like, Status move variations are moves that raise or decrease the same number of stats by the same number of levels. It makes more sense because that way moves like Iron Defense will be a variant of Acid Armor, instead of the current description which makes Baton Pass a variant of Acid Armor. [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 13:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::This is what the definition should be: &quot;Move varations are moves that are identical in terms of dammage and accuracy, and have similar secondary effects.&quot; --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage ==<br />
<br />
Here's my question. Thrash and Petal Dance are grouped together, but Outrage is not included only because is has 15 PP instead of 10. This difference seems minor to me, and so I think Outrage should be insluded in this group, with a note on it. If this doesn't work, then it doesn't work, but I know for a fact that most people focos on the actual move and its effects, not the PP it has. There are even people in this talk (although from 2 years ago lol) that group them together, and I know that most people think they are the same move with different types, especially now that they have the same power in Gen V. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I know that we don't want the article to contradict itself in this regard, but I think that these three moves are so similar that this could be the exception to the rule. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Outrage should be included. Reason: see below.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PP shouldn't be taken into account ==<br />
<br />
Taking the PP into account makes the list messier and more incomplete. They are also not the most important aspect anyway ingame: it doesn't really matter if a move has 35 PP or 40 PP. Seperating Night Slash from Slash, for example, causes an unnecesary amount of slots.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I agree 100%. PP is such a minor detail, it shouldn't even matter. The important thing is base power, similar or identical side effects, and accuracy. Any move that only serves to boost a stat by two stages is a variation of Acid Armor. Well, I'm not entirely sure on Body Purge, given its other effect of halving the user's weight, but still. My point is, PP shouldn't be taken into account. &lt;small&gt;- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' &lt;/small&gt; 16:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I agree too. IMO, the amount of PP is more minor than {{tt|Damage Category|although it shouldn't be included}}.----'''''無限の知性''''' ◎ [[User:Dennou Zenshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#BF0B17&quot;&gt;ＤＥＮＮＯＵ&lt;/font&gt;]]'''[[Special:Random|◆]]'''[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#1250A6&quot;&gt;ＺＥＮＳＨＩ&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I also agree, it doesn't make sense that something like acid armor isn't a variant of iron defense. [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 17:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::OK, so if the majority think that PP shouldn't count, we can put it back how it was. I changed it because it seemed that people wanted PP to count. I think it should be considered at least under some circumstances. I will stop changing the templates for move variations until the issue is resolved. <br />
::::Also, it did not create an excessive amount of categories—several were deleted and several were made, balancing out. And PP is much more influential the damage categories. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#A70000&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000A7&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Ok, it's maybe better to wait until there aren't any issues about that anymore. You can always watch the version regardless of PP (where I was responsible for) at this URL: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Move_variations&amp;oldid=1253819--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 19:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::After discussing it with a couple of other admins, we decided that the PP does not have to be the same, but it should be similar. i.e. it should differ by five or less. More than that is an indication that the moves aren't especially similar. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 20:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Different catagories==<br />
<br />
I have seperated the status moves from the other moves. The sharply-stat raising moves (besides those of 15PP) are now next to each other.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Haze &amp; Mist ==<br />
<br />
Can someone add Haze &amp; Mist to the list (they are counterparts)?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 08:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Shadow Ball/Crunch as variations of Waterfall ==<br />
<br />
I added them to variations of waterfall and changed the definition of waterfall so that they both fit. But since all previous variations caused flinching, and the two I added lower defense /sp. def should they be considered two different moveset variations? Also, the templates under shadow ball and crunch I left as they are because I have no idea how to do it, or if even they are in fact variations of waterfall. Thanks...<br />
<br />
== Extreme Speed and Sucker Punch ==<br />
{{m|Extremespeed}} now has +2 priority instead of +1. So, isn't it not a variation of {{m|Sucker Punch}} anymore? Also Sucker Punch work in different way, so this moves seems even less likely to be variations. --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Elemental Surfs? ==<br />
<br />
Discharge is like surf, affecting all opponents. Also a poison move.<br />
<br />
Also Poison Fang should be with the fangs.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Move_variations&diff=1281331Talk:Move variations2010-12-10T08:53:26Z<p>Tesseract: /* Elemental Surfs? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Template? ==<br />
<br />
This page was an excellent idea, but I wonder if there's a way to indicate in each move's article when it belongs to one of these &quot;archetypes&quot;. --[[User:Johans|Johans Nidorino]] 21:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I suggested it but it was forgotten later on; and unfortunately, I don't know how to make templates. -([[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 02:35, 29 May 2007 (UTC))<br />
:Template namespace. I'll whip one up. --'''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 02:53, 29 May 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== New Variation ==<br />
<br />
There neeeds to be a Move Variation for the Following moves:<br />
* {{m|Psybeam}}<br />
* {{m|Bubblebeam}}<br />
* {{m|Aurora Beam}}<br />
* {{m|Sludge}}<br />
* {{m|Spark}}<br />
I have checked them all out and they each have:<br />
* Power: 65<br />
* Accuracy: 100%<br />
* PP: 20 <br />
P.S. I don't know how to do this myself so really I'm asking for somebody to do this for me!<br />
[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 16:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I'm not sure if this should be counted as they each have a different added effect, either a [[status ailment]] or a [[stat]] change. Somebody gie me their:view...[[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 20:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Maybe keep the status-changing ones together, and keep the stat-changing ones together, but keep them separate. That means {{m|Psybeam}}, {{m|Sludge}}, and {{m|Spark}} go together, and {{m|BubbleBeam}} and {{m|Aurora Beam}} go together.<br />
:And don't forget to use the {{template|m}} template for moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 00:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
By the way, I think you've got the wrong idea. I'm not sure on how to create the move variation. I only realised they were similar... [[User:Tesh|Tesh]] 15:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== &quot;Or&quot; ==<br />
<br />
Is &quot;10 or 15&quot; valid [[Move variations#Variations of Shadow Ball|here]]? I'd say the use of every possible move variation no matter the amount of PPs it has would require a redefinition. BTW, {{m|Ice Beam}} and {{m|Thunder}} don't belong in the tables they've been introduced in if following the original criterion. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 05:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
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Sorry, I put those there. I'll have them removed. [[User:Llxwarbirdxll|Llxwarbirdxll]] 08:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)<br />
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:LOL, now somebody else did the same with variations of Slash, Waterfall, and Shadow Ball :P --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
People are no longer respecting the &quot;PPs&quot; part of the definition. With &quot;Variations of Flamethrower&quot; the article mentions neither 15 nor 10 now. If this is going to continue, maybe Bulbapedia's definition on &quot;move variations&quot; should no longer include PPs, which seems to be the least important of the three columns. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Seismic Toss and Night Shade? ==<br />
<br />
Those belong on the list, right?<br />
[[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 20:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Doesn't {{m|Night Shade}} do somewhere from 1 to 1.5x the level? I know {{m|Seismic Toss}} does the level. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;T&lt;/span&gt;]][[wp:Echidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000;&quot;&gt;E&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF;&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 23:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
::No, Psywave does from 0.5 to 1.5x the level. But Night Shade always does damage equal to the level. --[[User:Shiny Noctowl|Shiny Noctowl]] 23:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Still, they don't have the same amout of default total PPs. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 01:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
::They're stretching it nowadays though. Hmm...{{m|Zap Cannon}} and {{m|Dynamicpunch}}... [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D5AA00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)<br />
Well, I'm sure {{m|Stone Edge}} and {{m|Cross Chop}} are variations. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 07:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Definitely ^_^ --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 16:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Stub?==<br />
Is it Still a stub?--[[User:Torchic-ken|Torchic-ken]] 2:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, there's a few missing bits. [[User:Angerman|Angerman]] 00:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Mean Look/Block/Spider Web? ==<br />
<br />
I noticed there isn't a section for these three moves, and while Block and Mean Look fit a &quot;5 PP, Prevents foe from escaping&quot; description, Spider Web only has one thing setting them apart and that's the PP issue. Should I add it anyway? [[User:TinaTheKirlia|TinaTheKirlia]] 01:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
:Add only Mean Look and Block. That's what has been done in these cases to agree with the current definition of &quot;move archetypes&quot;. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 08:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)<br />
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== Counter and Mirror Coat? ==<br />
<br />
I'm really surprised no one did this - they both have 10PP, varying power, 100% accuracy and they both go last and counter the foe's attack at two times the power. I was trying to find a good way to summarize it though - how's this? &quot;Goes last and counters the move used by the foe at twice the power&quot;. [[User:TinaTheKirlia|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E75480;&quot;&gt;Tina&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TinaTheKirlia|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E75480;&quot;&gt;The&lt;/span&gt;]][[Kirlia (Pokémon)|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E75480;&quot;&gt;Kirlia&lt;/span&gt;]] ♥ [[Image:281MS.gif]] 21:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
:That works. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;TTE&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000FF&quot;&gt;chidna&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 23:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Softboiled and Milk Drink ==<br />
<br />
Even though they're listed under variations of Recover.. they both can do something Recover can not -- heal other Pokémon's HP outside of battle. I think this deserves a mention. :P [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Contests? ==<br />
<br />
I think it would be incredibly useful to have a version of this page for contests, since many of the moves do the exact same things.<br />
Thoughts...? [[User:Maki|Maki]] 13:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I agree. However it'd have to be set up differently. It'd be like... effect, cute moves, beauty moves, smart moves, tough moves, cool moves. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:49, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Blizzard ==<br />
<br />
Are Magma Storm and Focus Blast ''really'' variations of Blizzard? Neither inflict a status ailment and Magma Storm sounds more like a multi-turn move. The only similarities seem to be 120 power<br />
<br />
Also, I think Thunder should be added as a variation. It has 10 PP, not 5, but it causes a status ailment, has 120 power and 70 accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Thunder and Blizzard also have their accuracy at 100% when used during a specific weather condition. Magma Storm seems most like Outrage, though that goes 2-3 turns, and Focus Blast is just... its own thing. Not ''every'' move has a counterpart, that's what people need to remember. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 20:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
::That's what I mean, a lot of the moves I mentioned, as well as Hydro Pump, Seed Flare and Fire Blast are all ''similar'', but variations of each other? I'd say they're similar moves, but not direct variations. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:40, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes. Variations: Do the same thing. Similarity: have the same PP, power, or accuracy but don't do the same thing. Outrage and Thrash are variations, despite Outrage now being 120 power. Focus Blast and Blizzard are not because all they share is accuracy and power. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]][[Image:Ani155MS.gif|Fire echy]]''' 21:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::So, should we move some of the moves I mentioned around? That's what I've been suggesting. I think Magma Storm should be grouped with Outrage and Thrash, and Blizzard, Thunder and Gunk Shot should be in a group. Maybe Seed Flare and Focus Blast too, their effects are identical except for accuracy. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 00:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Order==<br />
Why aren't they in alphabetical order? {{u|MathijsP}}<br />
:Beats me. Last time I organized them I put them in order by damage. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 01:59, 20 April 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
==Dragon Claw, X-Scissor, Seed Bomb==<br />
<br />
Aren't these all variations? They all do 80 damage, have 15 PP, and no added effect. Can I add them? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:You forget to mention the accuracy, but it happens that it's the same! So yeah, they're move variations. --[[User:Johans|Johans]] 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
Great. I guess I'll add them now. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Actually, I don't think I know how to do the template. Can someone else do that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 18:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nevermind, I got them. :) --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Ice Beam?==<br />
<br />
Ice Beam has only 10 PP, yet it's claimed to be a variation of Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, which have 15 PP. Can I remove that? --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 21:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Ice Beam is the most useful of all three, but is still the same. Same power, accuracy and rate to inflict a status problem. Part of Ice Beam may be the fact frozen Pokémon are helpless. [[User:Gywall|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF8800&quot;&gt;'''Gyw&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FFAE00&quot;&gt;all'''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])&lt;/sup&gt; 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
::Ice Beam is one of the more visible move variations in normal gameplay. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 21:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Ah. I see. OK. --[[User:Dark Sage|Dark Sage]] 00:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Air Slash? ==<br />
<br />
I wonder if, shouldnt Air Slash be in the &quot;variations of Slash&quot; since it IS a Slash move after all? o: what do you people think? I havn't really looked up the PP, accuracy and power, but its very similar to Night Slash and Slash. :c--[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 17:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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:Slash and Night Slash have high critical-hit ratios, Air Slash may cause the opponent to flinch. ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;midnightblue&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;maroon&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 17:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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Ahh, ok thanks. --[[User:Angela-Samshi|Angela-Samshi]] 18:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Pound &lt;-&gt; Gust? ==<br />
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Gust isn't a variation of Pound, is it? - [[User:FireHazard|Hazardous FIRE!]] 00:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Yes it is. 35 PP, 40 power, 100% accuracy&amp;ndash;yup, variation. --[[user:Baby G|Baby G]] &lt;small&gt;([[user talk:Baby G|talk to me]])&lt;/small&gt; &lt;small&gt;([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|see my edits]])&lt;/small&gt; 23:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Arm Thrust ==<br />
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I read that the accuracy of Arm Thrust was 100 percent, but it was under the variations of Barrage, saying that its accuracy was 85 percent. Is its accuracy 85 or 100, cuz I don't wanna do an edit with wrong info.---[[User:Hitmonchan90|Hitmonchan90]] 23:07, 23 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
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==Bulk Up and Calm Mind?==<br />
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They both have 20 PP, and raise Attack and Defense/Special Attack and Special Defense one stage, respectively. Variants? All signs point to yes. [[User:Master Lucario|Master Lucario]]<br />
:Yep, variations. Added. --[[user:Baby G|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF4500;&quot;&gt;Baby G]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;([[user talk:Baby G|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D1E231;&quot;&gt;talk to me]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;small&gt;([[Special:Contributions/Baby_G|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B87333;&quot;&gt;see my edits]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/small&gt; 21:30, 5 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Reorganised ==<br />
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Since the moves were looking kinda messy, since the order was somewhat random, I went and moved the sections around to order it A-Z. Exceptions being Elemental X and the OHKO moves as they are listed differently. [[User:Gywall|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF8800&quot;&gt;'''Gyw&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FFAE00&quot;&gt;all'''&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;sup&gt;([[User_talk:Gywall|Talk]])&lt;/sup&gt; 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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I believe the order was by Base Power of the attacks. [[User:The Placebo Effect|The Placebo Effect]] 13:29, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Sections for both {{m|Tail Glow}} AND {{m|Agility}}? ==<br />
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I've noticed that there are two sections that both share similar attributes, both sections detail moves that have 20 PP but increase a stat two stages, however, One details just Special attack raisers while the other details the other ones.<br />
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Should there be two or should they be put together? [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I was thinking the same thing, but then I found out that all the listed variations of Agility (including Agility itself) have ''30'' PP, and that Tail Glow and {{m|Nasty Plot}} have ''20'' PP. --[[user:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;Cho&lt;/span&gt;]][[user talk:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;col&lt;/span&gt;]][[special:contributions/chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;ate&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:23, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Agility has 30 PP.Otherwise, I would say yes--[[User:DCM|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF1111&quot;&gt;DCM&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:DCM|((&lt;font color=&quot;#DAA520&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:Contributions/DCM|&lt;font color=&quot;#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;Contributions&lt;/font&gt;))]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br />
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I just noticed that now as well ^^; [[User:PDL|PDL]] 00:35, 23 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Crabhammer ==<br />
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Both Crabhammer and Blaze Kick ''used'' to be signature moves. Should this be noted? --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 21:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I don't think it should. &lt;sup&gt;&lt;big&gt;[[user:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;Cho&lt;/span&gt;]][[user talk:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;col&lt;/span&gt;]][[special:contributions/chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;ate&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/big&gt;&lt;/sup&gt; 21:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== Lock-On/Mind Reader ==<br />
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How about them? [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D5AA00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;''ht''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:19, 18 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I remember them having the exactly same effect, so if my memory serves me right, they could be added. &lt;span style=&quot;color: #3FFF00; font-weight: bold&quot;&gt;UltimateSephiroth&lt;/span&gt; &lt;sup&gt;(&lt;span style=&quot;color: #003FFF&quot;&gt;[[User:UltimateSephiroth|user]] · [[User talk:UltimateSephiroth|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/UltimateSephiroth|contrib]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/sup&gt; 23:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
::How about {{m|Whirlwind}} and {{m|Roar}}? [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#D5AA00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;''ht''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== {{m|Spikes}} / {{m|Toxic Spikes}} ==<br />
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Should these be parterned up?--[[User:RexRacer|'''&lt;font color=&quot;#E7CE6B&quot;&gt;Rex&lt;/font&gt;]][[Quilava (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;#42528C&quot;&gt;Racer&lt;/font&gt;''']] [[User talk:RexRacer|'''&lt;font color=&quot;#FF5A00&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''-talk''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/font&gt;''']] 16:26, 23 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
:Don't forget about {{m|Stealth Rock}}, too. &lt;sup&gt;[[user:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;Cho&lt;/span&gt;]][[user talk:chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;col&lt;/span&gt;]][[special:contributions/chocolate|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6D351A;&quot;&gt;ate&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
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== This page needs work ==<br />
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First of all, should PP be accounted for or not? Right now, some do and some don't. I don't really care which one we go with, so long as it's consistent.<br />
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Second, effects are not being grouped together consistently either. Example: Spark has a 30% chance of inducing Paralyze. Psybeam has a 10% chance of inducing Confusion. 30 != 10. Another example: Flamethrower has a 10% chance of inducing Burn. Surf has 0% chance of inducing anything at all, and has a different target range on top of that. Also, the diffence between &quot;Acid Armor variations&quot; and &quot;Amnesia variations&quot;? Ignoring the PP difference (the Acid Armor variations already do this anyway), who really cares if they raise Special stats or not? You could just as easily group them by Defense or Attack stats. On the other hand, I say just go with &quot;raises a stat by two stages&quot; and leave it at that.<br />
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Third, I do not think &quot;non-[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volatile volatile]&quot; means what you think it means. Why not just put &quot;non-damaging effect&quot; or something else a bit more clear and grammatically correct? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I never thought PP should be accounted for. A lot of the moves might have the same PP but if all the important other stuff is the same, the moves are pretty much variations! [[User:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#BB0000&quot;&gt;'''''~Toastypk'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#770077&quot;&gt;'''&lt;sup&gt;Loom.&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;''']] 05:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Thief and Covet will never be counted as variations if taking PP into account. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 15:57, 12 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And that's the sad thing, they're pretty much the same kind of item-stealing damaging move. PP is a moot point! [[User:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#BB0000&quot;&gt;'''''~Toastypk'''''&lt;/span&gt;]] - [[User_Talk:Toastypk|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#770077&quot;&gt;'''&lt;sup&gt;Loom.&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;''']] 00:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::If there's only one thing different about a move variation, it can still be considered a variation. For example, {{m|Surf}} is one of the {{m|Flamethrower}} variations, because it has the same power, PP, and accuracy. The only thing different is the effect. [[User:Chocolate|&lt;font color=&quot;6D351A&quot;&gt;Chocolate&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;([[User talk:Chocolate|&lt;font color=&quot;6D351A&quot;&gt;Chat with Me&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Actually, you could argue that Surf is a variation of Earthquake, since they have the same range and the same effect (none). Surf has more PP and less power, but it also has two things different from Flamethrower: range and effect. See? You can't just go &quot;Oh they're close ENOUGH&quot;, you have to pick your criteria and stick with it. Either effect counts or it doesn't count. Either range counts or it doesn't count. Either PP counts or it doesn't count. If you start flubbing things, that's only going to make things more complicated down the line. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Earthquake has the anti-{{m|Dig}} effect. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 02:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Good point, that's another thing they have in common, since Surf can hit during Dive too. [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 03:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I don't think there needs to be a set of rigid rules for move variations. By definition, variation implies differing conditions, character, and degree. That said, I do think that a move variations should have identical or ''very'' similar effects. PP and base power are relatively unimportant to me, when two moves have unique identical effects. Consider Bind, Fire Spin, and Whirlpool: they are all multi-turn attacks that trap their foe. They work exactly the same, and have relatively unique effects (only a handful of moves work like this). However, Bulbapedia currently only considers Fire Spin and Whirlpool as &quot;variations&quot;.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 03:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::I think that trapping should have its own page. It's not as if the creators sat around and thought, &quot;Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a clone of this move for that element?&quot; I think the process was more like, &quot;Hey, why not have this as a mechanic?&quot; --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 05:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Minor problem with that though. Ember, Flamethrower and Fire Blast (and probably others but those are the big ones) all have a 10% chance of causing burn. Moreover, they're all Fire attacks. If we go solely by effect, then that makes them variations of each other. So then we have moves that are multiple variations in one. Is that really ok? I mean, I can see it going either way...<br />
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:::::One possibility is to split it into two things, where there are moves that are strictly exact copies of each other minus type and specific effect (not % chance of effect though, that has to say the same), and then other moves that just do the same thing but are not exact copies. Like, if I want to look for moves that cause Burn, there could be a category that I could go to and look there, and likewise for moves that cause trapping, or moves that hit everyone on the field. Does that sound reasonable? [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 01:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::::I'm not talking about secondary effects like 10% of burn or confusion. I agree that there should be a [[list of moves that burn]] (not a category, unfortunately), but I don't think they should be considered variations. In my mind, examples of move variations are moves that have some unique game mechanic, such as {{m|Wrap|multi-turn}} {{m|Magma Storm|trapping}} {{m|Sand Tomb|moves}}, {{m|Fly|moves with}} {{m|Dig|an initial}} {{m|Shadow Force|invulnerable}} {{m|Dive|turn}}, {{m|Block|moves that}} {{m|Spider Web|prevent}} {{m|Mean Look|escape}}, or {{m|Protect|moves that can negate}} {{m|Detect|all negative effects}}&amp;mdash;Moves that work so similarly that there are, for example, abilities that negate the set of them or moves that counter-act a set of them. These should be considered move variations.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 01:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Starting tabs over.<br />
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I've always considered anything that does not cause damage on an otherwise damaging move to be a secondary effect so I think we are going to differ in thought there, unfortunately. Example: Razor Wind requires charging, has a high crit rate and deals damage, so the charging and high crit rate are both secondary effects. Screech causes only Defense down, so Defense down is the primary effect.<br />
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Taking each thing in turn, I don't think that just because Wrap and Magma Storm both cause multi-turn trapping is enough for them to be considered variations. They ought to have a page specifying this, but this does not make them variations, in the same way as Ember and Flamethrower. Ditto with with the semi-invulnerable moves. They are different enough (note which moves can hit which during the invulnerable turn, not to mention Power) to warrant an obviously acknowledged ''similarity'' but not actual variations.<br />
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As for your last two examples, those moves DO essentially do the exact same thing in every way, with the exception of PP, so I think, if we decide to exclude PP from the criteria (which I am fairly convinced we ought to do by now), then yes, I would consider those move variations.<br />
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(Somewhat off-topic, why not a category instead of a page? Then there would be links from the moves pages themselves, so they can actually be found... The Pokédex has tons of categories, I've noticed...) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Also, {{m|Mud-Slap}} and {{m|Sand-Attack}} are both Ground moves with a 100% chance of lowering Accuracy, and this can be prevented by abilities such as {{a|Keen Eye}}, but they're still clearly not variations of each other, right? (Asking because I consider Wrap and Bind and the like to be moves with 100% chance of causing trapping) [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 02:24, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Why aren't Wrap and Magma Storm variations? They have the same primary effects (inflict damage over several turns at the end of each turn) and secondary effects (trap target during those turns). (Though there's no official source ordering those as primary and secondary; they could just as easily be reversed.) I realize that Ember and Flamethrower also have the same primary and secondary effects, but another issue I pointed out above is ''unique game-mechanics''. There are a hundred moves that have the same primary effect as Ember and Flamethrower (inflict damage) and very similar secondary effects (10% of a major status ailment). However, there are only 5 moves that work like Wrap and Magma Storm. I think that makes them remarkable enough to be noted as move variations.<br />
::Since the definition of variation means details can vary. That means we could consider numerous damaging moves to be variations of each other. But I don't think it's notable if they don't have something that sets them apart from other moves.<br />
::(As for the category thing, I don't know for sure, but the tons of categories issue might be the reason they didn't want even more categories for each detail.)&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 02:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::It seems to me like what you want would be better expressed in a different page, like &quot;Moves that cause the same unique effects&quot; ...Okay, &quot;same unique&quot; is a bit oxymoronic, but you know what I mean. ^^;<br />
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:::The reason I chose Mud-Slap and Sand-Attack as examples is because they ARE unique, in that Accuracy is not a standard stat, and there are only 5 moves that lower accuracy (and none that raise it, I think): Mud-Slap, Sand-Attack, {{m|Flash}}, {{m|Mirror Shot}}, and {{m|Muddy Water}}, but these are clearly not similar in any other way but that. (Asides from Flash and Sand-Attack, I would consider those variations of the other, with Gen IV's de-nerfing of Flash.) This page seems to have been created to illustrate which moves have only minor differences, with Power, Accuracy and % effect and PP cited specifically as things that must be the same. No matter which way you cut it, the only thing Wrap and Magma Storm have in common is their secondary multi-turn trapping effect, and I consider multi-turn trapping damage to be a single secondary effect (You are never going to have one of those moves inflict one without the other). Primary effect defaults to damage except for moves that do not ever deal damage. The game even categorizes them as Physical [[Image:PhysicalIC.gif]] and Special [[Image:SpecialIC.gif]], not Status [[Image:StatusIC.gif]]. You can cite their uniqueness, but there are only so many moves that do unique, specific things, like Burn, or charge, or high-crit, but then you'll end up with almost every move out there having at least one if not multiple variations. If you want to get really unique, {{m|Flame Wheel}} and {{m|Sacred Fire}} are the only moves that can thaw out their user. That makes them variations according to your definition, but they have nothing in common according to the definition already defined on this page. I think this all does deserve to be noted somewhere, but I don't think this is the right place, is what I'm trying to say. ._.; [[User:Dragoness|Dragoness]] 04:06, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::I am aware that calling certain moves variations of each other would go against the narrow definition of move variations already defined by this page, but I think it is incorrect. I give up though, so I'll just continue ignoring it.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 04:40, 15 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Protect? Detect? ==<br />
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Aren't they variations of each other? --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 08:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Someone should go down this whole talk page and just do it. --[[User:Raijinili|Raijinili]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Phred: They have the same effect, it looks like, but Detect has half of Protect's PP, so no, not according to our definition.<br />
::Raijinili: What? --[[User:Martonimos|((&lt;font color=&quot;#008000&quot;&gt;Marton&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Martonimos|&lt;font color=&quot;#50C878&quot;&gt;imos&lt;/font&gt;))]] 08:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Although there are moves that say &quot;10 or 15 pp&quot; or something similar, so maybe... --[[User:Martonimos|((&lt;font color=&quot;#008000&quot;&gt;Marton&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Martonimos|&lt;font color=&quot;#50C878&quot;&gt;imos&lt;/font&gt;))]] 08:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::I think a difference in PP is a poor reason not to consider two moves as variations of each other. They obviously have the same effect.&amp;nbsp;&amp;mdash;&amp;nbsp;[[User:Laoris|Laoris]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sub&gt;([[User_Talk:Laoris|Blah]])&lt;/sub&gt; 08:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::To the point where the two moves share the same success rate. --[[User:Phred|Phred]] 23:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Rock Slide and Air Slash ==<br />
Both have 75 BP, 30% Chance of Flinch, and 95(?) Accuraccy. I think that makes them variations on the same move.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 16:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Thief and Covet ==<br />
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The only item-stealing damaging moves, with same power and accuracy, are yet to be covered here. I dropped a line earlier in hopes of the issue being picked up by more people, but it failed, my mistake. So I chose to be more direct in approach and now I ask, if other moves have ignored PP in favor of more relevant traits, shouldn't these two be listed as variations? I think there even used to be a template for both, but it got deleted. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 16:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== {{m|Glare}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} ==<br />
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Same effect, PP, accuracy and power (or the lack of it), varies on type only . These are variations, so I'll add them, but I don't know how to put the template on the move pages... {{u|Mr. Charlie}} 22:57, 14 March 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Strength as first in a variation ==<br />
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I've realized that Dragon Claw and the others are exactly like Strength but in type, so i've changed that, and made Strength as the first in the variation. This is my first edit, i hope it's all-right, I don't know if the move wasn't in there because it is a HM.<br />
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--[[User:PokeTech|PokeTech]] 12:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Kudos for effort there. But yeah, we don't include HMs so it'll have to go back to how it was. Sorry. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 21:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::''we don't include HMs'' Doesn't explain Waterfall, and no, &quot;it wasn't a HM originally&quot; doesn't seem like a good rationale to me. [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Well, I hadn't realized this at the time, but the variations of Waterfall have the flinching effect. And I see what you mean when you say that about not explaining it well. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Weather Moves ==<br />
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Aren't the weather moves variations of each other? Or at least Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Snadstorm/Hail? I mean, they all change to a weather for five turns. [[User:Mr. Charlie|Mr. ]][[User talk:Mr. Charlie|Charlie]] 18:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:I guess you could consider them variations of each other, but I've never really thought of them like that. I'd wait to add it untill more people agree or disagree. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 18:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::They all change weather but their effects are different. Well, indirectly. — [[User:Tenno Seremel|Tenno Seremel]] 21:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::That's the thing... I don't know if it should be added or not... they're like the elemental punches (damage + chance of status problem), because they change the weather condition during the battle and have a side effect... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 22:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Go for it. Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail are all exactly the same (IIRC) and Sandstorm has 5 more PP. I'm not sure whether that matters, coz you guys had a huge argument about that... &amp;mdash; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000C8&quot;&gt;THE TROM&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] &amp;mdash; 23:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Should I add it as &quot;Variations of *insert weather move*&quot; or as &quot;Weather Conditions/Moves&quot;? I'll add it anyways, but should it need to have the title changed I'll do that. [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:04, 29 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Or should it be, like the original question, Rain Dance/Sunny Day and Sandstorm/Hail? Eh, I'll put it all together for now and it can be changed later.... [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|R.A. Hunter B.]] 16:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Powders and Flattering ==<br />
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How come that {{m|PoisonPowder}}, {{m|Sleep Powder}} and {{m|Stun Spore}} aren't move variations? They have the same accuracy, animation, the same Contest appeal and Pokémon learn them around the same time, it kind of makes sense that they are.&lt;br&gt;<br />
Also {{m|Flatter}} and {{m|Swagger}} are variations as they both confuse but Swagger ups attack and Flatter ups Special Attack, I'm not sure how to add them lmao, I thought I should say it here first though ;) --[[User:Ripp145|Ripp145]] 12:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Apparently, Flatter only raises Special Attack one stage, while Swagger raises Attack by two stages. Also, both have different accuracy. Too many differences to qualify. --[[User:Kaoz|Kaoz]] 02:33, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::The powders aren't considered variations yet?! ''Alpha'' [[User:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Red&quot;&gt;Cu&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Bronze&quot;&gt;bo&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/CuboneKing|&lt;font color=&quot;Green&quot;&gt;ne&lt;/font&gt;]][[Cubone (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;Black&quot;&gt;King&lt;/font&gt;]] 02:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::If we're discussing variations to add, I have a couple suggestions.<br />
:Arm Thrust as a variation of Barrage<br />
:Bind and Wrap as variations of Fire Spin<br />
:Dark Pulse as variation of Zen Headbutt<br />
:Fire Blast and Megahorn as variations of Blizzard<br />
::With all these variations, they share identical effects, power and PP. The only difference between the suggested moves and the established moves is that accuracy is a tiny bit higher or lower. Also, some of the moves listed as variations don't qualify but are listed anyway. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:02, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Okay, I made a change that in hindsight I'm unsure of. In Gen 3, Leaf Blade fit the requirements to be considered a variation of Slash - 70 power, 15 pp, 100% accuracy, high chance for critical. But in Gen 4 it's power is 90, and it has its own variation now, Attack Order. So....what do we do? IMO, it should be considered variations of both, depending on the Generation. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 04:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Yeah, no. The Barrage variations all have the same power and accuracy, Arm Thrust only has the same power. Fire Blast and Megahorn are different than Blizzard for a lot of things: Fire Blast has more accuracy, Megahorn has more accuracy, Megahorn has no secondary effect. Dark Pulse has more accuracy than Zen Headbutt. Bind, Wrap, and Fire Spin all have differnt accuracies. There's more to this page than just &quot;Oh, it looks similar or has similar accuracy/PP/Power/type!&quot; There's reasons that most of these aren't on there. The ones that don't seem like they fit are included because they either were the same, or are now the same. And Leaf Blade doesn't count, because it's already in a category that's more specific. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 20:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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Why does Leaf Blade not count? It fit all the requirements before it's power was changed, if it doesn't count than neither does Zap Cannon as a variation of Dynamic Punch. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:And like I said, there's already moves listed as variations that don't fit the requirements to count, or the requirements are flexible like &quot;move does X or Y&quot;. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:I went through the list, here's some examples of the above:<br />
::Blizzard's requirements are &quot;5 or 10 PP&quot;, because otherwise Thunder wouldn't qualify. Also, Focus Blast doesn't qualify because it doesn't cause a status ailment<br />
::Zap Cannon is listed as a variation of Dynamic Punch, but it has different power.<br />
::Seed Flare is listed as a variation of Fire Blast, but it doesn't cause a status ailment.<br />
::Surf is listed as a variation of Flamethrower but doesn't cause a status, and it says so right on the page<br />
::Giga Drain's requirements again, &quot;5 or 10 PP&quot;.<br />
:I'm just saying, why are exceptions made for some moves to count them as variations, and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 20:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::PP is the only exception we make for differences. Zap Cannon and DynamicPunch are different than Leaf Blade. Did you even bother READING what I said about Leaf Blade other than that it doesn't count? It's in a category that's much more specific. It's with [[Template:Leaf Blade|Attack Order]]. Seed Flare and Fire Blast have the same power and accuracy, and both can have a secondary effect. As for Surf, I've always wondered that. I'll take that out of the template and this page. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Yes I did read it, and I asked why Leaf Blade counts for Attack Order over Slash, when at times it has fulfilled the requirements to be a variation of both. And in that case, I'll assume Focus Blast gets the same exception as Seed Flare does. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Moves can't be in more than one category, which is why Leaf Blade is with Attack Order, since they match exactly except for type. And you're still missing what I've been saying. If they have different accuracies, they don't match. Focus Blast has 70%, and Seed Flare has 85%. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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I am paying attention to what you're saying. Now pay attention to what I'm saying. Focus Blast does not cause a status ailment as the other variations do, and Seed Flare doesn't either. Zap Cannon and Focus Blast have different powers. So why are they listed? And again, ''Leaf Blade can count as a variation of both Slash and Attack Order'', so why do we count one over the other? Why are some exceptions made and not others? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 21:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:No, I don't think you are. Focus Blast has a ''secondary effect'' like the others do, it's not limited to status or stat changes. As for Zap Cannon and Focus Blast, I just realized that yeah, it shouldn't be there. I'll change that too. If we put Leaf Blade in the Slash variations, then there wouldn't be one for Attack Order. And yeah, Leaf Blade ''used'' to be in both categories. It's not anymore. It has more power than Slash. The only ones that I can find that have different powers as of Gen IV are the Petal Dance variations. I'll see what I can do about that too. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::That would be nice. I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, and I'm sorry for arguing with you. I'm just noticing a double-standard in regards to the variations of some moves and want them sorted out one way or the other. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::I don't mind. Arguments need to be more than just &quot;I'm right, you're wrong!&quot; and stupid things like that, and thankfully this wasn't one of those times. This article has also had some issues with getting things like that straight, so glad you said something or it would have stayed that way. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 22:04, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::No problem. I admit I'm biased though, when I think of move variations I'm not as tight in my requirements as this page. I still feel like Hydro Pump ought to be a variation of something, but it doesn't fit any profiles here. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 22:18, 18 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Lock-On and Mind Reader ==<br />
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Why aren't they here? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Swapping moves ==<br />
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Heart Swap (maybe), Power Swap, and Guard Swap. All Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. What do you think? [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:52, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Support. Don't forget {{m|Skill Swap}}! [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::That's ability though... also, what you did is a redirect. Learn... [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Still a Psychic-type, 10 PP, Status. As for redirect, so? It's a talk page. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 02:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Argh... no... may as well say EVERY single status move. It doesn't matter typing as long as it's related. As for redirect, this still applies... [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::No, not &quot;every&quot; status move. I see four moves with &quot;Swap&quot; in their names all of which involve switching some sort of statistic with the opponent. What's the problem? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::Never mind. We'll keep it as that then. [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 03:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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So we're adding them? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 03:16, 5 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== Screech Variations ==<br />
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Couldn't Cotton Spore be a Screech Variation? It's not a sound move, but it does lower one target's speed by two levels and has the same PP and Accuracy. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 04:26, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
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== {{m|Karate Chop}} and {{m|Poison Tail}} ==<br />
25 PP, 50 power, 100 Accuracy, high critical-hit ratios. What do you think? Also, would this need a new template to stick on the bottom of the move pages? [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 05:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Creating and adding. Any other moves that could go on this template? '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 13:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I don't think so, I looked at the other Critical Hit moves, none fit the definition. {{m|Air Cutter}} is close but its not exact. [[User:Drake Clawfang|Drake Clawfang]] 15:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Alright. Just wanted to make sure nothing needed to be added. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 21:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Counter Moves ==<br />
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Hey, i'm a fan of the counter moves and i've noticed something, why isn't Metal Burst counted as a variation? I've used Mirror Coat and Counter with Glaceon and Hitmonchan respectively and Metal Burst does the effects of '''both''' Mirror Coat and Counter. [[User:Geomexis|Geomexis]] 12:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Because they aren't very close. If the effect has something different (such as Metal Burst has both, while Mirror Coat and Counter only have one), it isn't a variation. [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|contribs]]) 13:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Counter specifically only repays physical damage double what was taken, and Mirror Coat specifically only repays special damage double what was taken. Metal Burst repays 1.5 damage, or what was taken plus half of that amount. '''[[Team Rocket|&lt;small&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: #550000;&quot;&gt;R.A.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Hunter&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User Talk:Rocket Admin Hunter Blade|&lt;small&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF2400&quot;&gt;Blade&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]''' 19:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Kisses ==<br />
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{{m|Lovely Kiss}} and {{m|Sweet Kiss}} <br />
<br />
Same accuracy, same PP. First cause sleep, second - confusion. Aren't move variations? --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Tackle and Peck together? ==<br />
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{{m|Tackle}} and {{m|Peck}}<br />
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The two moves are in a grouping together, but I believe they should not be. They share the Base Power of 35, but while Tackle is 95% accurate, and it mistakenly says Peck to be, Peck is 100% accurate. -- [[User:Mattman324]] 22:58:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Peck and Tackle aren't variations. Especially in generation V, where Tackle received a BP of 50. Myself, I would put Peck with Vine Whip, because they both have 35 BP, 100% accuracy and no special effect. Their PP, however, differs significantly, but does that really matter? (see below) --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:47, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Signal Beam ==<br />
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I know it seems weird, but {{m|Signal Beam}} is kinda of a variation of the elemental punches... 75 power, 100 acc, 15 PP and 10% of causing status. It breaks the &quot;tradition&quot;, so to speak, but it fits more than many of the other variations here. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 23:38, 4 September 2010 (UTC)<br />
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==This page needs COLOR!==<br />
Seriously, it looks really dull, which is especially bad seeing as it's pretty much all tables. One of the coding wizards here should try to make a template that incorporates colors for the type of each variation and whether they are physical, special, or a status move. For status moves, color them differently based on which stat they change or status effect they inflict—whatever it takes to make this dull-looking article into an attractive resource. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 16:46, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was just thinking of that myself, then I thought something like this would be perfect. But, you know, with colors for generations and stuff. I'm not a coding guy, I just throw the ideas. I don't mind working on the entire page, if needed, but I really don't know how. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 12:00, 2 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
{| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background: #ddf; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #ccf;&quot;<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| border=1 width=&quot;100%&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; style=&quot;background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #ddf; border-collapse:collapse;&quot;<br />
|- style=&quot;background: #ddf;&quot;<br />
! {{color2|000000|Move}}<br />
! {{color2|000000|Elemental types|Type}}<br />
! {{color2|000000|Damage category|Cat.}}<br />
! {{color2|000000|Generation|Gen}}<br />
{{tutormv|U-turn|Bug|cat=Physical|IV}}<br />
{{tutormv|Volt Change|Electric|cat=Special|V}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
That looks good. You can probably lose the class=&quot;sortable&quot; since the tables are all small. And make sure you use the region colors for the generation. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 10:04, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah... The &quot;how&quot; with the generation/region colors is my issue here. Could you, or anyone, show me how to do it? Really not my area of expertise. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 21:58, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::How's this &lt;small&gt;Edit: link removed&lt;/small&gt; for a quick mock-up? &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 04:40, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I likey. Let's use it. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 11:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::I like the idea, but don't forget that it will take longer to load this page.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:36, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== PP ==<br />
<br />
In the article it says that moves need to have the same PP to be variations, but throughout the article it lists moves of differing PP as variations. Should they be removed? [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 17:46, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
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Yeah, I would think so. You can't have the article contradict itself, can you? &lt;code&gt;;)&lt;/code&gt; [[User:The Exterminator|The Exterminator]] 17:53, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I agree, for my edit and talk page reasons. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 00:52, 12 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::An article indeed shouldn't contradict itself. That's why the definition itself needs to be altered. --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Definition ==<br />
<br />
The definition isn't specific enough. &quot;Move variations are moves that are identical to each other in terms of damage, PP, and accuracy, but have different elemental types, damage categories, or secondary effects.&quot; The definition works for damaging moves but according to it almost all status moves that have the same PP are variations of each other. So I'm thinking maybe the article needs a different definition for status moves? [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 17:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:How about something like, Status move variations are moves that raise or decrease the same number of stats by the same number of levels. It makes more sense because that way moves like Iron Defense will be a variant of Acid Armor, instead of the current description which makes Baton Pass a variant of Acid Armor. [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 13:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::This is what the definition should be: &quot;Move varations are moves that are identical in terms of dammage and accuracy, and have similar secondary effects.&quot; --[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
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== Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage ==<br />
<br />
Here's my question. Thrash and Petal Dance are grouped together, but Outrage is not included only because is has 15 PP instead of 10. This difference seems minor to me, and so I think Outrage should be insluded in this group, with a note on it. If this doesn't work, then it doesn't work, but I know for a fact that most people focos on the actual move and its effects, not the PP it has. There are even people in this talk (although from 2 years ago lol) that group them together, and I know that most people think they are the same move with different types, especially now that they have the same power in Gen V. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:11, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I know that we don't want the article to contradict itself in this regard, but I think that these three moves are so similar that this could be the exception to the rule. --[[User:Jdthebud|Jdthebud]] 23:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Outrage should be included. Reason: see below.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== PP shouldn't be taken into account ==<br />
<br />
Taking the PP into account makes the list messier and more incomplete. They are also not the most important aspect anyway ingame: it doesn't really matter if a move has 35 PP or 40 PP. Seperating Night Slash from Slash, for example, causes an unnecesary amount of slots.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 15:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I agree 100%. PP is such a minor detail, it shouldn't even matter. The important thing is base power, similar or identical side effects, and accuracy. Any move that only serves to boost a stat by two stages is a variation of Acid Armor. Well, I'm not entirely sure on Body Purge, given its other effect of halving the user's weight, but still. My point is, PP shouldn't be taken into account. &lt;small&gt;- ''unsigned comment from [[User:Missingno. Master|Missingno. Master]] ([[User talk:Missingno. Master|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Missingno._Master|contribs]])'' &lt;/small&gt; 16:35, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I agree too. IMO, the amount of PP is more minor than {{tt|Damage Category|although it shouldn't be included}}.----'''''無限の知性''''' ◎ [[User:Dennou Zenshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#BF0B17&quot;&gt;ＤＥＮＮＯＵ&lt;/font&gt;]]'''[[Special:Random|◆]]'''[[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#1250A6&quot;&gt;ＺＥＮＳＨＩ&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I also agree, it doesn't make sense that something like acid armor isn't a variant of iron defense. [[User:Pikiwyn|&lt;font color=&quot;#d0000d&quot; face=&quot;boopee&quot;&gt;'''''Pikiwyn'''''&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Pikiwyn|&lt;tt&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;]] 17:32, 14 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::OK, so if the majority think that PP shouldn't count, we can put it back how it was. I changed it because it seemed that people wanted PP to count. I think it should be considered at least under some circumstances. I will stop changing the templates for move variations until the issue is resolved. <br />
::::Also, it did not create an excessive amount of categories—several were deleted and several were made, balancing out. And PP is much more influential the damage categories. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#A70000&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0000A7&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:12, 15 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::Ok, it's maybe better to wait until there aren't any issues about that anymore. You can always watch the version regardless of PP (where I was responsible for) at this URL: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Move_variations&amp;oldid=1253819--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 19:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::::After discussing it with a couple of other admins, we decided that the PP does not have to be the same, but it should be similar. i.e. it should differ by five or less. More than that is an indication that the moves aren't especially similar. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 20:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Different catagories==<br />
<br />
I have seperated the status moves from the other moves. The sharply-stat raising moves (besides those of 15PP) are now next to each other.--[[User:Grrgrrgrr1000|Grrgrrgrr1000]] 16:56, 16 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Haze &amp; Mist ==<br />
<br />
Can someone add Haze &amp; Mist to the list (they are counterparts)?[[User:Vuvuzela2010|Vuvuzela2010]] 08:32, 23 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Shadow Ball/Crunch as variations of Waterfall ==<br />
<br />
I added them to variations of waterfall and changed the definition of waterfall so that they both fit. But since all previous variations caused flinching, and the two I added lower defense /sp. def should they be considered two different moveset variations? Also, the templates under shadow ball and crunch I left as they are because I have no idea how to do it, or if even they are in fact variations of waterfall. Thanks...<br />
<br />
== Extreme Speed and Sucker Punch ==<br />
{{m|Extremespeed}} now has +2 priority instead of +1. So, isn't it not a variation of {{m|Sucker Punch}} anymore? Also Sucker Punch work in different way, so this moves seems even less likely to be variations. --[[User:ЫъГЬ|ЫъГЬ]] 09:39, 4 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Elemental Surfs? ==<br />
<br />
Discharge is like surf, affecting all opponents.<br />
<br />
Also Poison Fang should be with the fangs.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Virizion_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281325Talk:Virizion (Pokémon)2010-12-10T08:46:26Z<p>Tesseract: /* What animal */</p>
<hr />
<div>This pokemon has the same type combination as Breloom...[[User:Chomi|Chomi]] 19:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:So what? How does this contribute to the article? --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 20:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== What animal ==<br />
<br />
What animal is it? ([[User:Random Chaos|Random Chaos]] 20:40, 5 October 2010 (UTC))<br />
:no one knows it seems [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 20:48, 5 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Reminds me of the spirit of the forest creature from Princess Mononoke. Maybe an antelope or gazelle...[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Just thought I'd mention... ==<br />
<br />
The sprite in its evo box is different to the one on the sprite table. Which is the real one?--[[User:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;''Poké''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;lova!&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:17, 13 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:The one in the evo box matches the shiny sprite, so we should probably go with that, right?--[[User:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;''Poké''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;lova!&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::The Sprite box one is animated in Mozilla.--[[User:Dennou Zenshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#C11B17&quot;&gt;でんのう&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;font color=&quot;#347C2C&quot;&gt;☢&lt;/font&gt; [[User talk:Dennou Zenshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#151B8D&quot;&gt;'''Z'''えんし&lt;/font&gt;]] 11:30, 13 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yes, I just switched to that. But now it's not showing up for me, blaming an error. It seems a few of the animated sprites are having troubles.--[[User:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#DAA520&quot;&gt;''Poké''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Pokelova|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C0C0C0&quot;&gt;lova!&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Forces_of_Nature&diff=1281316Talk:Forces of Nature2010-12-10T08:25:13Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia: Djinn */</p>
<hr />
<div>== &quot;Raijin&quot; ==<br />
<br />
Still not thinking it's the best name for them. As continued from here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#.22Raijin.22_Trio [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 03:12, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I agree. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::As do I. Should it be moved? --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 22:47, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Kami trio makes more sense... Well, Landlos doesn't make any sense except as a trio master that should had been external and its place taken by a Water/Flying Suijin, but oh well... [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 21:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Kami makes a lot more sense than Raijin since, as stated, only one is a thunder god.[[User:Megaplex|Megaplex]] 00:19, 20 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::So seeing as everyone who commented here seems to agree, can it be moved? --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 11:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==&quot;Trio or Duo&quot;==<br />
<br />
is they to be considered a trio because as what i think they were just duo and landlos was the duo master much like how regigigas was not part of the regi quadruped. [[User:Badwolf1234|Badwolf1234]] 11:34, 3 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Rayquaza is the leader of the [[Weather trio]]. Sometimes trios have their masters within the group. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:49, 3 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia: Djinn ==<br />
<br />
They're Djinn inspired also, as evidenced by the clouds, and crossed arms. FYI Djinn is the proper term for &quot;Genie&quot;.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 08:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Forces_of_Nature&diff=1281315Talk:Forces of Nature2010-12-10T08:25:00Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia: Djinn */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== &quot;Raijin&quot; ==<br />
<br />
Still not thinking it's the best name for them. As continued from here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Talk:Legendary_Pok%C3%A9mon#.22Raijin.22_Trio [[User:ArcToraphim|Luna Tiger]] * [[User talk:ArcToraphim|the Arc Toraph]] 03:12, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I agree. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 19:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::As do I. Should it be moved? --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 22:47, 11 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::: Kami trio makes more sense... Well, Landlos doesn't make any sense except as a trio master that should had been external and its place taken by a Water/Flying Suijin, but oh well... [[User:Eriorguez|Eriorguez]] 21:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::::Kami makes a lot more sense than Raijin since, as stated, only one is a thunder god.[[User:Megaplex|Megaplex]] 00:19, 20 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::::So seeing as everyone who commented here seems to agree, can it be moved? --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 11:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==&quot;Trio or Duo&quot;==<br />
<br />
is they to be considered a trio because as what i think they were just duo and landlos was the duo master much like how regigigas was not part of the regi quadruped. [[User:Badwolf1234|Badwolf1234]] 11:34, 3 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Rayquaza is the leader of the [[Weather trio]]. Sometimes trios have their masters within the group. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:49, 3 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia: Djinn ==<br />
<br />
They're Djinn inspired also, as evidenced by the clouds, and crossed arms. FYI Djinn is the proper term for &quot;Genie&quot;.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dragon_(type)&diff=1281306Talk:Dragon (type)2010-12-10T07:34:49Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Should the new Gen.5'ers be included in this list?==<br />
<br />
Now that we know their types, should Reshiram and Zekrom be included in the list as well? [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 21:25, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
:They should be, but we're lazy and the server glitches have prevented us from doing much. '''[[User:TTEchidna|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF0000&quot;&gt;''TTE''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:TTEchidna|chidna]]''' 23:19, 25 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Oh. I was half-expecting you to answer &quot;no&quot;. [[User:Ztobor|Ztobor]] 03:19, 26 June 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fully evolved Dragons ==<br />
<br />
Should we keep the small section saying that before Gen V, all fully evolved dragons had two types? Seems a bit pointless now that two of them don't. [[User:Dawnshadow|Dawnshadow]] 09:29, 1 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
Should it be stated that Dragon's legendary status, and nature themed powers in mythology are why it resists the &quot;basic&quot;/natural elements Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric?[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 07:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Skarmory_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281282Talk:Skarmory (Pokémon)2010-12-10T05:54:44Z<p>Tesseract: /* Appearance */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>Pardon my lack of in-game knowledge, but should skarmory's lighting weakness be less than 400? 70 Sp. defense could be considered mediorce but not as to 400, right?<br />
<br />
140 (Def) divided by 70 (Sp.Def) is 2. So the effectiveness of all special moves are doubled, compared to normal moves. - [[User:Zhen Lin|振霖]]&lt;sub&gt;[[User talk:Zhen Lin|T]]&lt;/sub&gt; 01:00, 23 November 2005 (CST)<br />
<br />
:Yes, that's correct. If a {{T|Fighting}} move does 30 damage, a {{T|Electric}} move of the same strength (after figuring effects caused by the stats of the attacking Pokémon) is used on Skarmory, it would cause about 120 damage.[[User:User142|User142]] 01:40, 23 November 2005 (CST)<br />
<br />
==Tail==<br />
<br />
Maybe I'm just crazy, but Skarmory's tail looks a lot like a bottle opener, like this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Opened_Waiters.JPG. Does anyone agree with me and/or think this should be added to the physiology section? [[User:Zell65|Zell65]] 06:46, 9 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It kinda does. Not enough to be put in the Physiology section though. {{unsigned|Asujoll}}<br />
<br />
I agree, and I think this should be at least noted somewhere. -Sabre_Justice<br />
<br />
=shark=<br />
<br />
anyone notice that his head looks like a shark fin?[[User:Ultamatecharizard|Ultamatecharizard]] 17:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Fanlist link ==<br />
<br />
Geocities is permanently down, so that &quot;Skarmory fanlist&quot; link is completely useless. I'd remove it myself if the page weren't in lockdown mode. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 23:07, 11 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Removed. --[[User:Hiroshiyo|Hiroshiyo]] 14:59, 18 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name Origin ==<br />
Skarmory's name comes from Sky and Armory, as many agree, but Skarmory is possibly based on the word &quot;Scar&quot; as well, people. Skar is basically the same word when said, and if it was named Skymory then it would still have the same meaning as currently stated, so the difference of Skarmory must have the addition of &quot;Scar&quot;.<br />
<br />
My point being that it's name origin should mention scar as a possibility.<br />
[[User:Frushil!|Frushil!]] 12:06, 18 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Tail Changes ==<br />
<br />
Is Skarmory's tail losing one of the blades between Gold and Silver and later games important enough to be added? --&lt;i&gt;--[[User:Valkyria|&lt;span style=&quot;color:Purple&quot;&gt;Valkyria&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/i&gt; &lt;small&gt;''([[User talk:Valkyria|&lt;span style=&quot;color:Gold&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/span&gt;]])''&lt;/small&gt; 20:50, 30 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Appearance ==<br />
<br />
It's head, neck, and chest rings make it look like an automobile's gear shift &amp; boot (the wrinkly rubber covering the stick goes in).</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Arceus_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281272Arceus (Pokémon)2010-12-10T05:32:54Z<p>Tesseract: /* Name origin */</p>
<hr />
<div>&lt;!--To reflect Arceus's Multitype ability, the Arceus type template is used to switch the type of the displays. DO NOT change them to Normal.--&gt;<br />
{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Arceus | type={{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; | prev=Shaymin|prevnum=492 | next=Victini | nextnum=494 }}<br />
{{PokémonInfobox|<br />
name=Arceus |<br />
jname=アルセウス |<br />
tmname=Arceus |<br />
image=493Arceus.png |<br />
size=170px|<br />
art=Pt | <br />
pron=&lt;sc&gt;ar-siyuhs&lt;/sc&gt; (pronunciation in PBR) |<br />
ndex=493 |<br />
opdex=221 |<br />
typen=1 |<br />
type1={{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; |<br />
type2= |<br />
species=Alpha |<br />
height-ftin=10'06&quot; |<br />
height-m=3.2 |<br />
weight-lbs=705.5 |<br />
weight-kg=320.0 |<br />
abilityn=1 |<br />
ability1=Multitype |<br />
abilityd=Multitype |<br />
egggroupn=0 |<br />
egggroup1=No eggs |<br />
egggroup2= |<br />
eggcycles=120|<br />
evhp=3|<br />
expyield=324 |<br />
lv100exp=1,250,000 |<br />
gendercode=255|<br />
color=Gray |<br />
catchrate=3 |<br />
body= 08|<br />
pokefordex=arceus |<br />
generation=4 |<br />
footnotes= }}<br />
'''Arceus''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''アルセウス''' ''Arceus'') is a {{type2|Normal}} [[legendary Pokémon]]. However, its type will change when it is holding one of sixteen items known as [[plates]] and can in reality be any type.<br />
<br />
Like {{p|Darkrai}} and {{p|Shaymin}} before it, Arceus was not officially recognized by Nintendo until February 2009, the year of its debut movie. It was later revealed by the [[Pokémon.com|official site]] on August 3rd, 2009.<br />
<br />
Arceus is also known as &quot;The Original One,&quot; as it is said that it created [[Sinnoh]], and possibly the entire [[Pokémon universe]], along with the [[lake guardians]] and [[creation trio]]. Arceus can only be found in the wild legitimately with the [[Azure Flute]], which has not yet been distributed [[Nintendo event|officially]] and can currently only be obtained by cheating. However, Arceus itself was once distributed at {{wp|Toys &quot;R&quot; Us}} stores in the United States from November 7 to November 15, 2009.<br />
<br />
Arceus is the final Pokémon in the [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|National Pokédex]] within [[Generation IV]].<br />
<br />
==Biology==<br />
===Physiology===<br />
Arceus is an equine being similar to a {{wp|Qilin}} or {{wp|Centaur}}. Its body color is white with a gray, vertically-striated underside, the pattern of which has similar recurrences on the underside of Arceus's mane, tail, and face, and Arceus's four pointed feet are tipped with gold hooves. Its mane is quite long, jutting away from its head, and its face is gray, with green eyes and red pupils, and a green circular pattern below its eyes. Arceus also has a streak of gold coloration on its head, and ears that point upward. Its neck is fairly long, with two pairs of extrusions to the sides, and a flap-like feature on the neck's underside that is colored white like much of the body. It also has a golden cross-like wheel attached to its body by its round abdomen, which changes color along with its eyes and hooves based on Arceus's {{t|{{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|current type}}. The wheel also has four jewels attached to it. The pattern of striated gray of Arceus's underbelly resumes past Arceus's waist, the underside of Arceus's limbs also being gray in coloration, and with extrusions at the tops of the legs. Arceus's tail is fairly like its mane in shape and coloration.<br />
<br />
====Gender differences====<br />
Arceus is a genderless species.<br />
<br />
====Special abilities====<br />
[[File:Arceus_Formes.gif|right|thumb|An animation displaying Arceus's different colorings while holding plates]]<br />
According to legend, Arceus is thought to have created the [[Sinnoh]] region and possibly the entire [[Pokémon world]], the [[lake guardians]]: {{p|Uxie}}, {{p|Azelf}}, {{p|Mesprit}}, and the [[creation trio]]: {{p|Dialga}}, {{p|Palkia}}, and {{p|Giratina}}. <br />
<br />
Arceus is {{a|Multitype|multifarious}}; it can change forms and types with the use of the special [[plate]]s.<br />
<br />
Arceus is [[signature move|the only known]] Pokémon who can learn {{m|Judgment}}. Arceus can also use many attacks of various types, but to a lesser extent than {{p|Smeargle}} or {{p|Mew}}. Arceus is also the only non-Dragon-type Pokémon other than Smeargle who can learn {{m|Draco Meteor}}, although it must become a {{type2|Dragon}} (by holding a {{DL|Plate|Draco Plate}}) in order to learn it.<br />
<br />
According to the anime, its power can also bring back things that it once destroyed or make certain things vanish into thin air. Arceus also has the ability to halt time.<br />
<br />
===Behavior===<br />
While normally a kind, heroic and benevolent Pokémon, Arceus does not suffer fools gladly, and will attack in a violent rampage if betrayed or deceived. It also holds long grudges if angered.<br />
<br />
===Habitat===<br />
Arceus lives at the [[Hall of Origin]], which can only be accessed by use of the [[Azure Flute]] at [[Spear Pillar]]. However, in the [[M12|twelfth Pokémon movie]], it seems to live in a wide dimension of stars and galaxies.<br />
<br />
===Diet===<br />
{{main|Pokémon food}}<br />
In ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]'' it is said to &quot;feed&quot; off the energy of the elemental plates, but is seen in the games holding a Rowap Berry.<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
[[File:Arceus movie 12.png|thumb|250px|right|{{mov|Arceus|Arceus|12}} in the anime]]<br />
{{an|Arceus}} made its debut in ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]''. It was angry at the people of [[Michina Town]] for [[Damos]]'s unwitting betrayal of it in ancient times, and so attempted to destroy the land. When Ash and his friends are teleported by {{an|Dialga}} to ancient times, they directly influence the event, changing the future for the better so that Arceus will stop its destruction.<br />
<br />
In ''[[DP152|Battle Finale of Legend!]]'', although Arceus is neither seen nor named, but the [[Red Chain]] is said to contain the power of 'The Original One'. Using the Red Chain, Cyrus takes control of {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} by causing a red ring similar to the one surrounding Arceus's body to appear around their bodies.<br />
<br />
Arceus makes a cameo in the opening ''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' and ''[[We Will Carry On]]'', along with the [[creation trio]].<br />
<br />
==In the manga==<br />
[[Image:Arceus Multitype Adventures.png|thumb|right|250px|Archer and all the forms of Arceus]]Arceus appears as a central character in the Movie 12 manga adaptation, reprising its role from the film. After Arceus saved the world from a meteor, [[Damos]] took care of it. It gave Damos the [[Jewel of Life]] to make the land of [[Michina]] rich and fertile. Damos then betrayed Arceus, and it has been outraged ever since.<br />
<br />
In [[Pokémon Adventures]], {{adv|Gold}} and his team battle a wild Arceus in the opening pages of the {{chap|HeartGold &amp; SoulSilver}}, and even [[Exbo]]'s powerful {{m|Blast Burn}} attack is unable to damage the incredible beast.<br />
<br />
A few rounds later, it is revealed that it showed up in front of {{adv|Crystal}} and the [[Team Rocket]] Executives, and the former tried to catch it.<br />
<br />
==In the TCG==<br />
{{main|Arceus (TCG)}}<br />
Arceus appears in the TCG in all nine {{TCG|elemental types}}, and a player can have as many Arceus cards in their deck as they like, unlike all other cards in the game (besides {{TCG|Basic Energy card}}s). Cards based on Arceus first appeared in the {{TCG|Platinum: Arceus|Arceus}} expansion set.<br />
<br />
==Game data==<br />
===Pokédex entries===<br />
{{Dex<br />
|type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;<br />
|gen=4<br />
|diamonddex=It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.<br />
|pearldex=It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.<br />
|platinumdex=It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world.<br />
|hgssdex=According to the legends of Sinnoh, this Pokémon emerged from an egg and shaped all there is in this world.<br />
|bwdex={{tt|なにも ない ばしょに あった タマゴのなかから すがたを あらわし せかいを うみだしたと されている。|It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world.}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Game locations===<br />
{{Availability|<br />
type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; |<br />
gen=4 |<br />
dprarity= One |<br />
dparea=[[Hall of Origin]] &lt;small&gt;(requires [[Azure Flute]])&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
ptrarity= One |<br />
ptarea=[[Hall of Origin]] &lt;small&gt;(requires [[Azure Flute]])&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
hgrarity= One |<br />
hgssarea=[[Poké Mart]] &lt;small&gt;(Arceus event)&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
bwrarity= One |<br />
bwarea=[[Pokémon Global Link]] &lt;small&gt;(event)&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
}}<br />
<br />
====In side games====<br />
{{SidegameAvail<br />
|type=Arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;<br />
|ranger3=[[Air Fortress]] ([[Ranger Net]] mission)&lt;br&gt;[[Light Temple]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A statue of Arceus can be found in {{g|Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky}}.<br />
<br />
===Held items===<br />
{{HeldItems|type={{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;<br />
|event1=Rowap Berry|event1type=Berry|event1rar=100<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Stats===<br />
====Base stats====<br />
{{BaseStats|<br />
type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|<br />
HP= 120 |<br />
Attack= 120 |<br />
Defense=120 |<br />
SpAtk= 120 |<br />
SpDef= 120 |<br />
Speed= 120 }}<br />
<br />
===Pokéathlon stats===<br />
{{main|Arceus (Pokémon)/Pokéathlon stats}}<br />
{{:Arceus (Pokémon)/Pokéathlon stats/{{arceustype}}}}<br />
<br />
===Type effectiveness===<br />
{{main|Arceus (Pokémon)/Type effectiveness}}<br />
{{:Arceus (Pokémon)/Type effectiveness/{{arceustype}}}}<br />
<br />
===Learnset===<br />
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====<br />
<br />
{{learnlist/levelh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Seismic Toss|Fighting|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Cosmic Power|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Natural Gift|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Punishment|Dark|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|17='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|10|Gravity|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|20|Earth Power|Ground|Special|90|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|5='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|30|Hyper Voice|Normal|Special|90|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|40|ExtremeSpeed|Normal|Physical|80|100|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|50|Refresh|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|60|Future Sight|Psychic|Special|100|100|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|70|Recover|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|80|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|90|Perish Song|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|100|Judgment|Arceus|Special|100|100|10||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/levelf|Arceus|arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4|form=yes}}<br />
<br />
====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tmh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change to--&gt;|5|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM01|Hone Claws|Dark|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM02|Dragon Claw|Dragon|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|16='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM03|Psycho Shock|Psychic|Special|80|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|14='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM04|Calm Mind|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM05|Roar|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|&amp;mdash;|90|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|&amp;mdash;|100|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|15='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|15='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM19|Telekinesis|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM20|Safeguard|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|25||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM22|SolarBeam|Grass|Special|120|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|12='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM24|Thunderbolt|Electric|Special|95|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|13='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM25|Thunder|Electric|Special|120|70|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|13='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM26|Earthquake|Ground|Physical|100|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|5='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|14='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM30|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|8='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM31|Brick Break|Fighting|Physical|75|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|2='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM33|Reflect|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|95|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM36|Sludge Bomb|Poison|Special|90|100|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM37|Sandstorm|Rock|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|120|85|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM39|Rock Tomb|Rock|Physical|50|80|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|6='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|&amp;mdash;|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|3='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Canon|Normal|Special|60|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM49|Echo Voice|Normal|Special|40|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM50|Overheat|Fire|Special|140|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM52|Focus Blast|Fighting|Special|120|70|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|2='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM53|Energy Ball|Grass|Special|80|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|12='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM57|Charge Beam|Electric|Special|50|90|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|13='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM59|Devastate|Fire|Special|30|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM60|Postpone|Dark|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM61|Will-O-Wisp|Fire|Status|&amp;mdash;|75|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM65|Shadow Claw|Ghost|Physical|70|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|8='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|17='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliation|Normal|Physical|70|100|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM71|Stone Edge|Rock|Physical|100|80|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|6='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM77|Psych Up|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM78|Smooth Over|Ground|Physical|60|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|5='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|6='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|7='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM83|Cheer Up|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM84|Poison Jab|Poison|Physical|80|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|4='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM85|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|14='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|&amp;mdash;|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|12='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|90|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM91|Flash Cannon|Steel|Special|80|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|9='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM92|Trick Room|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|2='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM95|Bark Out|Dark|Special|55|95|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|17='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM02|Fly|Flying|Physical|90|95|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|3='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|11='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|11='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tmf|Arceus|Arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4|form=yes}}<br />
<br />
====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tutorh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutor5|Draco Meteor|Dragon|Special|140|90|5||'''|yes}}<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;roundybottom&quot; style=&quot;background:#{{arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; color light}}; font-size: 90%; line-height:10px;&quot; colspan=&quot;8&quot; | <br />
* A black abbreviation in a colored box indicates that Arceus can be tutored the move in that game<br />
* A colored abbreviation in a white box indicates that Arceus cannot be tutored the move in that game<br />
* '''Bold''' indicates a move that gets {{color2|000000|Same type attack bonus|STAB}} when used by Arceus<br />
* ''Italic'' indicates a move that gets STAB only when used by an evolution or {{color2|000000|Form differences|alternate form}} of Arceus<br />
* Arceus must be holding the {{color2|000000|Plate#Draco Plate|Draco Plate}} when Draco Meteor is taught.<br />
* Click on the generation numbers at the top to see move tutor moves from other generations<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====By {{pkmn2|event}}s====<br />
{{learnlist/eventh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|4|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/event4|[[List of Nintendo event Pokémon in 2009#Toys &quot;R&quot; Us Arceus|Toys 'R' Us events]]|Roar of Time|Dragon|Special|150|90|5|Cool|2||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|16='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/event4|[[List of Nintendo event Pokémon in 2009#Toys &quot;R&quot; Us Arceus|Toys 'R' Us events]]|Spacial Rend|Dragon|Special|100|95|5|Tough|2||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|16='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/event4|[[List of Nintendo event Pokémon in 2009#Toys &quot;R&quot; Us Arceus|Toys 'R' Us events]]|Shadow Force|Ghost|Physical|120|100|5|Smart|2||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|8='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/eventf|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|4|4|form=yes}}<br />
<br />
===Side game data===<br />
{{Sidegame|<br />
type={{Arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; |<br />
ndex=494 |<br />
Ranger3=yes |<br />
group3=Normal |<br />
assist3=Normal |<br />
field3=None |<br />
field3power=- |<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Evolution===<br />
{{evobox/0formes17}}<br />
<br />
===Sprites===<br />
{{Sprite|<br />
type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|<br />
gen=4|<br />
gender=18formes|<br />
ndex=493|<br />
name=Arceus|<br />
animated=1|<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
[[File:Spr 4p 493-Unknown.png|thumb|right|Normal-color sprite for {{type2|???}} Arceus]][[File:Spr 4p 493-Unknown s.png|thumb|right|{{pkmn2|Shiny}} sprite for {{type2|???}} Arceus]]<br />
*At level 80, Arceus is the second-highest level Pokémon available for capture, after the {{p|Magikarp}} in the [[Resort Area]] in {{game|Platinum}} (which can be caught at any level). However, the [[Azure Flute]] needed to encounter it has never been made officially available.<br />
* Arceus's English name has had three different pronunciations. Before it was officially revealed, fans pronounced it as &quot;AR-see-oos&quot;, as does [[Pokémon Battle Revolution]]. Then, a promotional trailer for ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]'' pronounced it as &quot;Ar-SAY-us&quot;. Its official pronunciation was then revealed in a [[Pokémon.com]] mailbag as &quot;ARK-ee-us&quot;. Its original pronunciation is still in popular usage and isn't considered to be incorrect.<br />
* Arceus's [[base stat]] total is 720, higher than any other Pokémon.<br />
** In its base form, Arceus has the highest [[base stat]] in {{stat|Defense}} of all {{type2|Normal}} Pokémon.<br />
* All Generation IV games have sprites for Arceus using its Multitype ability with all 18 types, including {{type2|???}}. It is disputed whether the ???-type Arceus is obtainable, as there is no [[plate]] in the code that can be used for this. It is possible this sprite was programmed in to prevent game crashes caused by tampering with Arceus's type.<br />
* Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, is the only move that Arceus is guaranteed [[Same-type attack bonus|STAB]] for, as it is always the same type as Arceus itself. However, on the battle screen, Judgment is always displayed as a {{type2|Normal}} attack.<br />
* Even though it is said that Arceus created the world with its thousand arms, it is not shown to have any arms at all, nor can it learn hand-based or arm-based moves.<br />
* Holding the [[Toxic Plate]], Arceus is the only legendary {{type2|Poison}} Pokémon.<br />
* {{m|Earth Power}} is the only move with a fixed base power, besides {{m|Judgment}}, that Arceus learns by level-up which can receive [[Same-type attack bonus|STAB]] with a plate attached.<br />
* Arceus is the only event-exclusive [[trio master]], needing the [[Azure Flute]] to be encountered in {{3v|Diamond|Pearl|Platinum}}.<br />
** Furthermore, Arceus is the only trio master of two [[Lake guardians|different]] [[creation trio|trios]].<br />
* Arceus is the only Pokémon to never officially receive a [[List of Pokémon by Diamond &amp; Pearl Battle Pokédex number|DPBP number]]. {{p|Kadabra}}, which was not released as a TCG card during the DPBP era, is assumed to be #070, as {{p|Abra}} and {{p|Alakazam}} are #069 and #071, respectively.<br />
* The ring around Arceus's body appears to have a malevolent counterpart in the embodiment of the [[Red Chain]], as a red version of it is shown to ring Dialga and Palkia around the middle when [[Cyrus]] takes control of them in [[DP152]].<br />
* Arceus is one of three Pokémon that can learn all of the moves ever obtainable as [[HM]]s. The two others are {{p|Mew}} and {{p|Smeargle}}.<br />
* Arceus is the one who is rumored to have prevented all Pokémon in the future from disappearing in [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky]]. Dialga explains that it &quot;was no miracle&quot; that they were saved, and that a &quot;greater power&quot; saved them all. Arceus is the leader of the creation trio, of which Dialga is a member.<br />
<br />
===Origin===<br />
Arceus is particularly based on a {{wp|creator deity}}, present in many world cultures. The conception of the first god might be influenced from {{wp|Kunitokotachi}} and {{wp|Amenominakanushi}}, who, according to {{wp|Shinto}} myth, summoned {{wp|Izanami}} and {{wp|Izanagi}} to create Japan with the spear. It may also be a reference to the Chinese mythical creature, the {{wp|Qilin}}. Its myth is nearly identical to that of the {{wp|Pangu}}, the Chinese creation deity. Arceus may also be inspired by (or a representation of) the bodhisattva {{wp|Avalokiteśvara}}, who, in {{wp|Buddhism}}, is either pictured with eleven heads and one thousand arms (the latter of which is mentioned in Arceus's flavor text) or in a {{wp|Chenrezig|white four-armed manifestation}} (which could look similar to Arceus's Normal form). Some inspiration may have come from a {{wp|horse}}, because of its Platinum sprite and attack movements in Pokémon Battle Revolution.<br />
<br />
====Name origin====<br />
Arceus's name may come from the words ''arch'' (highest) and ''deus'', which is Latin for ''god''. It may also have a root in the Latin word ''arcanus'', which means ''secret; sacred mystery''. Arceus's name may also come from the word ''archaic'' (ancient), which comes from the Greek ''arkhaios'', and is derived from the ancient Greek word for &quot;beginning&quot;, ''arkhē''. It could have also come from the Latin word ''archetypus'' (original). Alternatively, Arceus's name can be seen as a portmanteau of ''Zeus'', the most powerful of Greek gods and ''arch'' (highest). Another theory may be the combination of Zeus and Ra spelled backwards. Zeus being the king of gods and ''Ra'' being the solar god and creator (albeit in different pantheons). Those two qualities are shared by the Pokémon. Also, Arceus can also be derived from ''aureus'' (golden), possibly referring to its hooves and wheel. Nevertheless, Arceus's name origin and possible theories have led fans to believe that Arceus may be in fact a {{wp|creator deity}} in Pokémon form. Arceus's name is pronounced with a soft &quot;c&quot; (or &quot;s&quot; sound) by the announcer in [[Pokémon Battle Revolution]]; in keeping with its probable name origin, it is pronounced with a hard &quot;c&quot; (or &quot;k&quot; sound) in television commercials and in ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]''. It's name could also come from arc, as in round/ring, since it's surrounded by one.<br />
<br />
==In other languages==<br />
*[[List of German Pokémon names|German]]: Arceus<br />
*[[List of French Pokémon names|French]]: Arceus<br />
*[[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]: 아르세우스 ''Arceus''<br />
*[[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese (Taiwan)]]: 阿爾宙斯 ''Ā Ěr Zhòu Sī'' - Transliteration of its Japanese name. Also a portmanteau of 阿爾法 ''Ā'ěrfǎ'' ({{wp|Alpha}}) and 宙斯 ''Zhòusī'' ({{wp|Zeus}}).<br />
<br />
==Related articles==<br />
* [[Arceus (anime)]]<br />
{{-}}<br />
&lt;!--==Notes==--&gt;<br />
{{Legendary Pokémon}}<br />
{{event Pokémon}}<br />
<br />
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Shaymin|prevnum=492 | next=Victini|nextnum=494 | type=Arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; }}<br />
{{Project Pokédex notice}}<br />
[[Category:Legendary Pokémon]]<br />
[[Category:Sinnoh Legendary Pokémon]]<br />
[[Category:Pokémon with different forms]]<br />
[[Category:Promotion-only Pokémon]]<br />
[[Category:Trio masters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Arceus]]<br />
[[es:Arceus]]<br />
[[fr:Arceus]]<br />
[[it:Arceus]]<br />
[[ja:アルセウス]]<br />
[[pl:Arceus]]<br />
[[pt:Arceus (pokémon)]]</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Arceus_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281269Arceus (Pokémon)2010-12-10T05:29:42Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>&lt;!--To reflect Arceus's Multitype ability, the Arceus type template is used to switch the type of the displays. DO NOT change them to Normal.--&gt;<br />
{{PokémonPrevNextHead | species=Arceus | type={{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; | prev=Shaymin|prevnum=492 | next=Victini | nextnum=494 }}<br />
{{PokémonInfobox|<br />
name=Arceus |<br />
jname=アルセウス |<br />
tmname=Arceus |<br />
image=493Arceus.png |<br />
size=170px|<br />
art=Pt | <br />
pron=&lt;sc&gt;ar-siyuhs&lt;/sc&gt; (pronunciation in PBR) |<br />
ndex=493 |<br />
opdex=221 |<br />
typen=1 |<br />
type1={{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; |<br />
type2= |<br />
species=Alpha |<br />
height-ftin=10'06&quot; |<br />
height-m=3.2 |<br />
weight-lbs=705.5 |<br />
weight-kg=320.0 |<br />
abilityn=1 |<br />
ability1=Multitype |<br />
abilityd=Multitype |<br />
egggroupn=0 |<br />
egggroup1=No eggs |<br />
egggroup2= |<br />
eggcycles=120|<br />
evhp=3|<br />
expyield=324 |<br />
lv100exp=1,250,000 |<br />
gendercode=255|<br />
color=Gray |<br />
catchrate=3 |<br />
body= 08|<br />
pokefordex=arceus |<br />
generation=4 |<br />
footnotes= }}<br />
'''Arceus''' ([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''アルセウス''' ''Arceus'') is a {{type2|Normal}} [[legendary Pokémon]]. However, its type will change when it is holding one of sixteen items known as [[plates]] and can in reality be any type.<br />
<br />
Like {{p|Darkrai}} and {{p|Shaymin}} before it, Arceus was not officially recognized by Nintendo until February 2009, the year of its debut movie. It was later revealed by the [[Pokémon.com|official site]] on August 3rd, 2009.<br />
<br />
Arceus is also known as &quot;The Original One,&quot; as it is said that it created [[Sinnoh]], and possibly the entire [[Pokémon universe]], along with the [[lake guardians]] and [[creation trio]]. Arceus can only be found in the wild legitimately with the [[Azure Flute]], which has not yet been distributed [[Nintendo event|officially]] and can currently only be obtained by cheating. However, Arceus itself was once distributed at {{wp|Toys &quot;R&quot; Us}} stores in the United States from November 7 to November 15, 2009.<br />
<br />
Arceus is the final Pokémon in the [[List of Pokémon by National Pokédex number|National Pokédex]] within [[Generation IV]].<br />
<br />
==Biology==<br />
===Physiology===<br />
Arceus is an equine being similar to a {{wp|Qilin}} or {{wp|Centaur}}. Its body color is white with a gray, vertically-striated underside, the pattern of which has similar recurrences on the underside of Arceus's mane, tail, and face, and Arceus's four pointed feet are tipped with gold hooves. Its mane is quite long, jutting away from its head, and its face is gray, with green eyes and red pupils, and a green circular pattern below its eyes. Arceus also has a streak of gold coloration on its head, and ears that point upward. Its neck is fairly long, with two pairs of extrusions to the sides, and a flap-like feature on the neck's underside that is colored white like much of the body. It also has a golden cross-like wheel attached to its body by its round abdomen, which changes color along with its eyes and hooves based on Arceus's {{t|{{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|current type}}. The wheel also has four jewels attached to it. The pattern of striated gray of Arceus's underbelly resumes past Arceus's waist, the underside of Arceus's limbs also being gray in coloration, and with extrusions at the tops of the legs. Arceus's tail is fairly like its mane in shape and coloration.<br />
<br />
====Gender differences====<br />
Arceus is a genderless species.<br />
<br />
====Special abilities====<br />
[[File:Arceus_Formes.gif|right|thumb|An animation displaying Arceus's different colorings while holding plates]]<br />
According to legend, Arceus is thought to have created the [[Sinnoh]] region and possibly the entire [[Pokémon world]], the [[lake guardians]]: {{p|Uxie}}, {{p|Azelf}}, {{p|Mesprit}}, and the [[creation trio]]: {{p|Dialga}}, {{p|Palkia}}, and {{p|Giratina}}. <br />
<br />
Arceus is {{a|Multitype|multifarious}}; it can change forms and types with the use of the special [[plate]]s.<br />
<br />
Arceus is [[signature move|the only known]] Pokémon who can learn {{m|Judgment}}. Arceus can also use many attacks of various types, but to a lesser extent than {{p|Smeargle}} or {{p|Mew}}. Arceus is also the only non-Dragon-type Pokémon other than Smeargle who can learn {{m|Draco Meteor}}, although it must become a {{type2|Dragon}} (by holding a {{DL|Plate|Draco Plate}}) in order to learn it.<br />
<br />
According to the anime, its power can also bring back things that it once destroyed or make certain things vanish into thin air. Arceus also has the ability to halt time.<br />
<br />
===Behavior===<br />
While normally a kind, heroic and benevolent Pokémon, Arceus does not suffer fools gladly, and will attack in a violent rampage if betrayed or deceived. It also holds long grudges if angered.<br />
<br />
===Habitat===<br />
Arceus lives at the [[Hall of Origin]], which can only be accessed by use of the [[Azure Flute]] at [[Spear Pillar]]. However, in the [[M12|twelfth Pokémon movie]], it seems to live in a wide dimension of stars and galaxies.<br />
<br />
===Diet===<br />
{{main|Pokémon food}}<br />
In ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]'' it is said to &quot;feed&quot; off the energy of the elemental plates, but is seen in the games holding a Rowap Berry.<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
[[File:Arceus movie 12.png|thumb|250px|right|{{mov|Arceus|Arceus|12}} in the anime]]<br />
{{an|Arceus}} made its debut in ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]''. It was angry at the people of [[Michina Town]] for [[Damos]]'s unwitting betrayal of it in ancient times, and so attempted to destroy the land. When Ash and his friends are teleported by {{an|Dialga}} to ancient times, they directly influence the event, changing the future for the better so that Arceus will stop its destruction.<br />
<br />
In ''[[DP152|Battle Finale of Legend!]]'', although Arceus is neither seen nor named, but the [[Red Chain]] is said to contain the power of 'The Original One'. Using the Red Chain, Cyrus takes control of {{p|Dialga}} and {{p|Palkia}} by causing a red ring similar to the one surrounding Arceus's body to appear around their bodies.<br />
<br />
Arceus makes a cameo in the opening ''[[The Greatest - Everyday!]]'' and ''[[We Will Carry On]]'', along with the [[creation trio]].<br />
<br />
==In the manga==<br />
[[Image:Arceus Multitype Adventures.png|thumb|right|250px|Archer and all the forms of Arceus]]Arceus appears as a central character in the Movie 12 manga adaptation, reprising its role from the film. After Arceus saved the world from a meteor, [[Damos]] took care of it. It gave Damos the [[Jewel of Life]] to make the land of [[Michina]] rich and fertile. Damos then betrayed Arceus, and it has been outraged ever since.<br />
<br />
In [[Pokémon Adventures]], {{adv|Gold}} and his team battle a wild Arceus in the opening pages of the {{chap|HeartGold &amp; SoulSilver}}, and even [[Exbo]]'s powerful {{m|Blast Burn}} attack is unable to damage the incredible beast.<br />
<br />
A few rounds later, it is revealed that it showed up in front of {{adv|Crystal}} and the [[Team Rocket]] Executives, and the former tried to catch it.<br />
<br />
==In the TCG==<br />
{{main|Arceus (TCG)}}<br />
Arceus appears in the TCG in all nine {{TCG|elemental types}}, and a player can have as many Arceus cards in their deck as they like, unlike all other cards in the game (besides {{TCG|Basic Energy card}}s). Cards based on Arceus first appeared in the {{TCG|Platinum: Arceus|Arceus}} expansion set.<br />
<br />
==Game data==<br />
===Pokédex entries===<br />
{{Dex<br />
|type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;<br />
|gen=4<br />
|diamonddex=It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.<br />
|pearldex=It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.<br />
|platinumdex=It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world.<br />
|hgssdex=According to the legends of Sinnoh, this Pokémon emerged from an egg and shaped all there is in this world.<br />
|bwdex={{tt|なにも ない ばしょに あった タマゴのなかから すがたを あらわし せかいを うみだしたと されている。|It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world.}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Game locations===<br />
{{Availability|<br />
type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; |<br />
gen=4 |<br />
dprarity= One |<br />
dparea=[[Hall of Origin]] &lt;small&gt;(requires [[Azure Flute]])&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
ptrarity= One |<br />
ptarea=[[Hall of Origin]] &lt;small&gt;(requires [[Azure Flute]])&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
hgrarity= One |<br />
hgssarea=[[Poké Mart]] &lt;small&gt;(Arceus event)&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
bwrarity= One |<br />
bwarea=[[Pokémon Global Link]] &lt;small&gt;(event)&lt;/small&gt; |<br />
}}<br />
<br />
====In side games====<br />
{{SidegameAvail<br />
|type=Arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;<br />
|ranger3=[[Air Fortress]] ([[Ranger Net]] mission)&lt;br&gt;[[Light Temple]]<br />
}}<br />
<br />
A statue of Arceus can be found in {{g|Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky}}.<br />
<br />
===Held items===<br />
{{HeldItems|type={{arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;<br />
|event1=Rowap Berry|event1type=Berry|event1rar=100<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Stats===<br />
====Base stats====<br />
{{BaseStats|<br />
type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|<br />
HP= 120 |<br />
Attack= 120 |<br />
Defense=120 |<br />
SpAtk= 120 |<br />
SpDef= 120 |<br />
Speed= 120 }}<br />
<br />
===Pokéathlon stats===<br />
{{main|Arceus (Pokémon)/Pokéathlon stats}}<br />
{{:Arceus (Pokémon)/Pokéathlon stats/{{arceustype}}}}<br />
<br />
===Type effectiveness===<br />
{{main|Arceus (Pokémon)/Type effectiveness}}<br />
{{:Arceus (Pokémon)/Type effectiveness/{{arceustype}}}}<br />
<br />
===Learnset===<br />
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====<br />
<br />
{{learnlist/levelh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Seismic Toss|Fighting|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Cosmic Power|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Natural Gift|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Punishment|Dark|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|17='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|10|Gravity|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|20|Earth Power|Ground|Special|90|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|5='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|30|Hyper Voice|Normal|Special|90|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|40|ExtremeSpeed|Normal|Physical|80|100|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|50|Refresh|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|60|Future Sight|Psychic|Special|100|100|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|70|Recover|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|80|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|90|Perish Song|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|100|Judgment|Arceus|Special|100|100|10||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/levelf|Arceus|arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4|form=yes}}<br />
<br />
====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tmh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change to--&gt;|5|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM01|Hone Claws|Dark|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM02|Dragon Claw|Dragon|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|16='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM03|Psycho Shock|Psychic|Special|80|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|14='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM04|Calm Mind|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM05|Roar|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|&amp;mdash;|90|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM07|Hail|Ice|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|&amp;mdash;|100|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM11|Sunny Day|Fire|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM13|Ice Beam|Ice|Special|95|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|15='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM14|Blizzard|Ice|Special|120|70|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|15='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM19|Telekinesis|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM20|Safeguard|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|25||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM22|SolarBeam|Grass|Special|120|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|12='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM24|Thunderbolt|Electric|Special|95|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|13='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM25|Thunder|Electric|Special|120|70|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|13='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM26|Earthquake|Ground|Physical|100|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|5='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM29|Psychic|Psychic|Special|90|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|14='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM30|Shadow Ball|Ghost|Special|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|8='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM31|Brick Break|Fighting|Physical|75|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|2='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM33|Reflect|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM35|Flamethrower|Fire|Special|95|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM36|Sludge Bomb|Poison|Special|90|100|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM37|Sandstorm|Rock|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM38|Fire Blast|Fire|Special|120|85|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM39|Rock Tomb|Rock|Physical|50|80|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|6='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM40|Aerial Ace|Flying|Physical|60|&amp;mdash;|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|3='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Canon|Normal|Special|60|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM49|Echo Voice|Normal|Special|40|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM50|Overheat|Fire|Special|140|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM52|Focus Blast|Fighting|Special|120|70|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|2='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM53|Energy Ball|Grass|Special|80|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|12='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM57|Charge Beam|Electric|Special|50|90|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|13='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM59|Devastate|Fire|Special|30|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|10='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM60|Postpone|Dark|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM61|Will-O-Wisp|Fire|Status|&amp;mdash;|75|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM65|Shadow Claw|Ghost|Physical|70|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|8='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM66|Payback|Dark|Physical|50|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|17='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM67|Retaliation|Normal|Physical|70|100|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM71|Stone Edge|Rock|Physical|100|80|5||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|6='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM75|Swords Dance|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM77|Psych Up|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM78|Smooth Over|Ground|Physical|60|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|5='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM80|Rock Slide|Rock|Physical|75|90|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|6='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM81|X-Scissor|Bug|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|7='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM83|Cheer Up|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM84|Poison Jab|Poison|Physical|80|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|4='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM85|Dream Eater|Psychic|Special|100|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|14='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM86|Grass Knot|Grass|Special|&amp;mdash;|100|20||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|12='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|90|15||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM91|Flash Cannon|Steel|Special|80|100|10||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|9='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM92|Trick Room|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5||}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|2='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM95|Bark Out|Dark|Special|55|95|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|17='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM01|Cut|Normal|Physical|50|95|30||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM02|Fly|Flying|Physical|90|95|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|3='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM03|Surf|Water|Special|95|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|11='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM04|Strength|Normal|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|1='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|HM05|Waterfall|Water|Physical|80|100|15||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|11='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/tmf|Arceus|Arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4|form=yes}}<br />
<br />
====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tutorh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|5|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutor5|Draco Meteor|Dragon|Special|140|90|5||'''|yes}}<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;roundybottom&quot; style=&quot;background:#{{arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; color light}}; font-size: 90%; line-height:10px;&quot; colspan=&quot;8&quot; | <br />
* A black abbreviation in a colored box indicates that Arceus can be tutored the move in that game<br />
* A colored abbreviation in a white box indicates that Arceus cannot be tutored the move in that game<br />
* '''Bold''' indicates a move that gets {{color2|000000|Same type attack bonus|STAB}} when used by Arceus<br />
* ''Italic'' indicates a move that gets STAB only when used by an evolution or {{color2|000000|Form differences|alternate form}} of Arceus<br />
* Arceus must be holding the {{color2|000000|Plate#Draco Plate|Draco Plate}} when Draco Meteor is taught.<br />
* Click on the generation numbers at the top to see move tutor moves from other generations<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====By {{pkmn2|event}}s====<br />
{{learnlist/eventh|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|4|4}}<br />
{{learnlist/event4|[[List of Nintendo event Pokémon in 2009#Toys &quot;R&quot; Us Arceus|Toys 'R' Us events]]|Roar of Time|Dragon|Special|150|90|5|Cool|2||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|16='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/event4|[[List of Nintendo event Pokémon in 2009#Toys &quot;R&quot; Us Arceus|Toys 'R' Us events]]|Spacial Rend|Dragon|Special|100|95|5|Tough|2||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|16='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/event4|[[List of Nintendo event Pokémon in 2009#Toys &quot;R&quot; Us Arceus|Toys 'R' Us events]]|Shadow Force|Ghost|Physical|120|100|5|Smart|2||{{#switch: {{#expr: {{#time: U}} mod 18}}|8='''|''}}}}<br />
{{learnlist/eventf|Arceus|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|4|4|form=yes}}<br />
<br />
===Side game data===<br />
{{Sidegame|<br />
type={{Arceustype}}&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; |<br />
ndex=494 |<br />
Ranger3=yes |<br />
group3=Normal |<br />
assist3=Normal |<br />
field3=None |<br />
field3power=- |<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Evolution===<br />
{{evobox/0formes17}}<br />
<br />
===Sprites===<br />
{{Sprite|<br />
type=arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt;|<br />
gen=4|<br />
gender=18formes|<br />
ndex=493|<br />
name=Arceus|<br />
animated=1|<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
[[File:Spr 4p 493-Unknown.png|thumb|right|Normal-color sprite for {{type2|???}} Arceus]][[File:Spr 4p 493-Unknown s.png|thumb|right|{{pkmn2|Shiny}} sprite for {{type2|???}} Arceus]]<br />
*At level 80, Arceus is the second-highest level Pokémon available for capture, after the {{p|Magikarp}} in the [[Resort Area]] in {{game|Platinum}} (which can be caught at any level). However, the [[Azure Flute]] needed to encounter it has never been made officially available.<br />
* Arceus's English name has had three different pronunciations. Before it was officially revealed, fans pronounced it as &quot;AR-see-oos&quot;, as does [[Pokémon Battle Revolution]]. Then, a promotional trailer for ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]'' pronounced it as &quot;Ar-SAY-us&quot;. Its official pronunciation was then revealed in a [[Pokémon.com]] mailbag as &quot;ARK-ee-us&quot;. Its original pronunciation is still in popular usage and isn't considered to be incorrect.<br />
* Arceus's [[base stat]] total is 720, higher than any other Pokémon.<br />
** In its base form, Arceus has the highest [[base stat]] in {{stat|Defense}} of all {{type2|Normal}} Pokémon.<br />
* All Generation IV games have sprites for Arceus using its Multitype ability with all 18 types, including {{type2|???}}. It is disputed whether the ???-type Arceus is obtainable, as there is no [[plate]] in the code that can be used for this. It is possible this sprite was programmed in to prevent game crashes caused by tampering with Arceus's type.<br />
* Arceus's signature move, {{m|Judgment}}, is the only move that Arceus is guaranteed [[Same-type attack bonus|STAB]] for, as it is always the same type as Arceus itself. However, on the battle screen, Judgment is always displayed as a {{type2|Normal}} attack.<br />
* Even though it is said that Arceus created the world with its thousand arms, it is not shown to have any arms at all, nor can it learn hand-based or arm-based moves.<br />
* Holding the [[Toxic Plate]], Arceus is the only legendary {{type2|Poison}} Pokémon.<br />
* {{m|Earth Power}} is the only move with a fixed base power, besides {{m|Judgment}}, that Arceus learns by level-up which can receive [[Same-type attack bonus|STAB]] with a plate attached.<br />
* Arceus is the only event-exclusive [[trio master]], needing the [[Azure Flute]] to be encountered in {{3v|Diamond|Pearl|Platinum}}.<br />
** Furthermore, Arceus is the only trio master of two [[Lake guardians|different]] [[creation trio|trios]].<br />
* Arceus is the only Pokémon to never officially receive a [[List of Pokémon by Diamond &amp; Pearl Battle Pokédex number|DPBP number]]. {{p|Kadabra}}, which was not released as a TCG card during the DPBP era, is assumed to be #070, as {{p|Abra}} and {{p|Alakazam}} are #069 and #071, respectively.<br />
* The ring around Arceus's body appears to have a malevolent counterpart in the embodiment of the [[Red Chain]], as a red version of it is shown to ring Dialga and Palkia around the middle when [[Cyrus]] takes control of them in [[DP152]].<br />
* Arceus is one of three Pokémon that can learn all of the moves ever obtainable as [[HM]]s. The two others are {{p|Mew}} and {{p|Smeargle}}.<br />
* Arceus is the one who is rumored to have prevented all Pokémon in the future from disappearing in [[Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky]]. Dialga explains that it &quot;was no miracle&quot; that they were saved, and that a &quot;greater power&quot; saved them all. Arceus is the leader of the creation trio, of which Dialga is a member.<br />
* When holding a Sky Plate, Arceus was the only pure flying type Pokemon, until Generation V's Tornelos.<br />
<br />
===Origin===<br />
Arceus is particularly based on a {{wp|creator deity}}, present in many world cultures. The conception of the first god might be influenced from {{wp|Kunitokotachi}} and {{wp|Amenominakanushi}}, who, according to {{wp|Shinto}} myth, summoned {{wp|Izanami}} and {{wp|Izanagi}} to create Japan with the spear. It may also be a reference to the Chinese mythical creature, the {{wp|Qilin}}. Its myth is nearly identical to that of the {{wp|Pangu}}, the Chinese creation deity. Arceus may also be inspired by (or a representation of) the bodhisattva {{wp|Avalokiteśvara}}, who, in {{wp|Buddhism}}, is either pictured with eleven heads and one thousand arms (the latter of which is mentioned in Arceus's flavor text) or in a {{wp|Chenrezig|white four-armed manifestation}} (which could look similar to Arceus's Normal form). Some inspiration may have come from a {{wp|horse}}, because of its Platinum sprite and attack movements in Pokémon Battle Revolution.<br />
<br />
====Name origin====<br />
Arceus's name may come from the words ''arch'' (highest) and ''deus'', which is Latin for ''god''. It may also have a root in the Latin word ''arcanus'', which means ''secret; sacred mystery''. Arceus's name may also come from the word ''archaic'' (ancient), which comes from the Greek ''arkhaios'', and is derived from the ancient Greek word for &quot;beginning&quot;, ''arkhē''. It could have also come from the Latin word ''archetypus'' (original). Alternatively, Arceus's name can be seen as a portmanteau of ''Zeus'', the most powerful of Greek gods and ''arch'' (highest). Another theory may be the combination of Zeus and Ra spelled backwards. Zeus being the king of gods and ''Ra'' being the solar god and creator (albeit in different pantheons). Those two qualities are shared by the Pokémon. Also, Arceus can also be derived from ''aureus'' (golden), possibly referring to its hooves and wheel. Nevertheless, Arceus's name origin and possible theories have led fans to believe that Arceus may be in fact a {{wp|creator deity}} in Pokémon form. Arceus's name is pronounced with a soft &quot;c&quot; (or &quot;s&quot; sound) by the announcer in [[Pokémon Battle Revolution]]; in keeping with its probable name origin, it is pronounced with a hard &quot;c&quot; (or &quot;k&quot; sound) in television commercials and in ''[[M12|Arceus and the Jewel of Life]]''.<br />
<br />
==In other languages==<br />
*[[List of German Pokémon names|German]]: Arceus<br />
*[[List of French Pokémon names|French]]: Arceus<br />
*[[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]: 아르세우스 ''Arceus''<br />
*[[List of Chinese Pokémon names|Chinese (Taiwan)]]: 阿爾宙斯 ''Ā Ěr Zhòu Sī'' - Transliteration of its Japanese name. Also a portmanteau of 阿爾法 ''Ā'ěrfǎ'' ({{wp|Alpha}}) and 宙斯 ''Zhòusī'' ({{wp|Zeus}}).<br />
<br />
==Related articles==<br />
* [[Arceus (anime)]]<br />
{{-}}<br />
&lt;!--==Notes==--&gt;<br />
{{Legendary Pokémon}}<br />
{{event Pokémon}}<br />
<br />
{{PokémonPrevNextFoot | prev=Shaymin|prevnum=492 | next=Victini|nextnum=494 | type=Arceus&lt;!--DO NOT change--&gt; }}<br />
{{Project Pokédex notice}}<br />
[[Category:Legendary Pokémon]]<br />
[[Category:Sinnoh Legendary Pokémon]]<br />
[[Category:Pokémon with different forms]]<br />
[[Category:Promotion-only Pokémon]]<br />
[[Category:Trio masters]]<br />
<br />
[[de:Arceus]]<br />
[[es:Arceus]]<br />
[[fr:Arceus]]<br />
[[it:Arceus]]<br />
[[ja:アルセウス]]<br />
[[pl:Arceus]]<br />
[[pt:Arceus (pokémon)]]</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Flying_(type)&diff=1281266Flying (type)2010-12-10T05:22:00Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{ElementalTypes}}<br />
{{TypeNotice|Flying|ひこう|Flying}}<br />
Notable Pokémon Trainers that specialize in Flying-type Pokémon are [[Gym Leader]]s [[Falkner]] of [[Violet City]], [[Winona]] of [[Fortree City]], and [[Fuuro]] of [[Fukiyose City]].<br />
<br />
Prior to Generation V, this type was the only one of the seventeen that was never seen as a pure type; {{p|Tornelos}} is the first pure Flying-type. Each other type, besides the {{type2|Fighting}}, has also been paired with the Flying type on at least one Pokémon.<br />
<br />
==Statistical averages==<br />
===Overall===<br />
{{BaseStatNoCat|<br />
type=flying|<br />
HP=67 |<br />
Attack=73 |<br />
Defense=66 |<br />
SpAtk=69 |<br />
SpDef=74 |<br />
Speed=83 }}<br />
<br />
===Fully evolved===<br />
{{BaseStatNoCat|<br />
type=flying|<br />
HP=80.07 |<br />
Attack=84.61 |<br />
Defense=75.76 |<br />
SpAtk=83.12 |<br />
SpDef=81.27 |<br />
Speed=88.71 }}<br />
&lt;!--out of 41!!!--&gt;<br />
<br />
==Battle properties==<br />
{{typebattle<br />
|type=Flying<br />
|weakto1=Electric<br />
|weakto2=Ice<br />
|weakto3=Rock<br />
|resist1=Bug<br />
|resist2=Fighting<br />
|resist3=Grass<br />
|weaken1=Bug<br />
|weaken2=Fighting<br />
|weaken3=Grass<br />
|resisted1=Electric<br />
|resisted2=Rock<br />
|resisted3=Steel<br />
|unaffected1=Ground<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Characteristics==<br />
Defensively, the Flying type is useful for its immunity to the common {{type2|Ground}} move {{m|Earthquake}} and its resistance to {{t|Fighting}}. However, the Flying type's weaknesses aren't uncommon and can often offset the benefits of immunity to Ground, especially due to many dual-type {{2t|Rock|Ground}} Pokémon. However, most Flying-types have access to {{m|Roost}}, allowing them to restore their health. Flying-types usually have below average defense stats, making them vulnerable to most physical attacks, super effective or not.<br />
<br />
Offensively, Flying-type moves are usually only useful when benefited by [[same-type attack bonus]] and for their strength against {{type2|Fighting}}. The types Flying is {{DL|Damage modification|super effective}} against aren't common. In their favor though, most fully evolved Flying-types have above-average {{Stat|Attack}} and {{Stat|Speed}} [[stats]]. However, having below average {{Stat|Special Attack}} makes such moves as {{m|Air Cutter}} and {{m|Air Slash}} almost useless, unless used by Flying-type outliers with high Special Attack such as Togekiss or Yanmega.<br />
<br />
Flying-type Pokémon that use the move {{m|Roost}} will temporarily lose their Flying-type. If a pure-Flying-type Pokémon uses Roost, then it will become a {{type2|???}} in [[Generation IV]] and a {{type2|Normal}} in [[Generation V]]—however, no Pokémon that is or can become pure-Flying-type can learn the move Roost.<br />
<br />
When used in {{pkmn|Contest}}s, Flying-type moves typically become [[Cool Contest|Cool]] moves, but can also be of the other four Contest types, excluding [[Tough Contest|Tough]].<br />
<br />
==Pokémon==<br />
In total, there are 84 Flying-type Pokémon, making it the third most common type, behind Normal and Water.<br />
<br />
===Pure Flying-type Pokémon===<br />
{| {| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background: #{{flying color light}}; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};&quot;<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| border=1 width=&quot;100%&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; style=&quot;background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;&quot;<br />
|-style=&quot;background: #{{flying color light}};&quot;<br />
! #<br />
!<br />
! Name<br />
|-<br />
|641<br />
|{{MSP|641|Tornelos}}<br />
|{{p|Tornelos}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Half Flying-type Pokémon===<br />
''Primary Flying-type Pokémon''<br />
<br />
None.<br />
<br />
''Secondary Flying-type Pokémon''<br />
{| {| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background: #{{flying color light}}; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #{{flying color}};&quot;<br />
|-<br />
|<br />
{| border=1 width=&quot;100%&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; style=&quot;background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color light}}; border-collapse:collapse;&quot;<br />
|-style=&quot;background: #{{flying color light}};&quot;<br />
! #<br />
!<br />
! Name<br />
! Type 1<br />
! Type 2<br />
|-<br />
|006<br />
|{{MSP|006|Charizard}}<br />
|{{p|Charizard}}<br />
{{typetable|Fire}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|012<br />
|{{MSP|012|Butterfree}}<br />
|{{p|Butterfree}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|016<br />
|{{MSP|016|Pidgey}}<br />
|{{p|Pidgey}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|017<br />
|{{MSP|017|Pidgeotto}}<br />
|{{p|Pidgeotto}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|018<br />
|{{MSP|018|Pidgeot}}<br />
|{{p|Pidgeot}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|021<br />
|{{MSP|021|Spearow}}<br />
|{{p|Spearow}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|022<br />
|{{MSP|022|Fearow}}<br />
|{{p|Fearow}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|041<br />
|{{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
|{{p|Zubat}}<br />
{{typetable|Poison}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|042<br />
|{{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
|{{p|Golbat}}<br />
{{typetable|Poison}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|083<br />
|{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}<br />
|{{p|Farfetch'd}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|084<br />
|{{MSP|084|Doduo}}<br />
|{{p|Doduo}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|085<br />
|{{MSP|085|Dodrio}}<br />
|{{p|Dodrio}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|123<br />
|{{MSP|123|Scyther}}<br />
|{{p|Scyther}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|130<br />
|{{MSP|130|Gyarados}}<br />
|{{p|Gyarados}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|142<br />
|{{MSP|142|Aerodactyl}}<br />
|{{p|Aerodactyl}}<br />
{{typetable|Rock}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|144<br />
|{{MSP|144|Articuno}}<br />
|{{p|Articuno}}<br />
{{typetable|Ice}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|145<br />
|{{MSP|145|Zapdos}}<br />
|{{p|Zapdos}}<br />
{{typetable|Electric}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|146<br />
|{{MSP|146|Moltres}}<br />
|{{p|Moltres}}<br />
{{typetable|Fire}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|149<br />
|{{MSP|149|Dragonite}}<br />
|{{p|Dragonite}}<br />
{{typetable|Dragon}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|163<br />
|{{MSP|163|Hoothoot}}<br />
|{{p|Hoothoot}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|164<br />
|{{MSP|164|Noctowl}}<br />
|{{p|Noctowl}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|165<br />
|{{MSP|165|Ledyba}}<br />
|{{p|Ledyba}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|166<br />
|{{MSP|166|Ledian}}<br />
|{{p|Ledian}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|169<br />
|{{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
|{{p|Crobat}}<br />
{{typetable|Poison}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|176<br />
|{{MSP|176|Togetic}}<br />
|{{p|Togetic}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|177<br />
|{{MSP|177|Natu}}<br />
|{{p|Natu}}<br />
{{typetable|Psychic}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|178<br />
|{{MSP|178|Xatu}}<br />
|{{p|Xatu}}<br />
{{typetable|Psychic}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|187<br />
|{{MSP|187|Hoppip}}<br />
|{{p|Hoppip}}<br />
{{typetable|Grass}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|188<br />
|{{MSP|188|Skiploom}}<br />
|{{p|Skiploom}}<br />
{{typetable|Grass}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|189<br />
|{{MSP|189|Jumpluff}}<br />
|{{p|Jumpluff}}<br />
{{typetable|Grass}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|193<br />
|{{MSP|193|Yanma}}<br />
|{{p|Yanma}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|198<br />
|{{MSP|198|Murkrow}}<br />
|{{p|Murkrow}}<br />
{{typetable|Dark}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|207<br />
|{{MSP|207|Gligar}}<br />
|{{p|Gligar}}<br />
{{typetable|Ground}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|225<br />
|{{MSP|225|Delibird}}<br />
|{{p|Delibird}}<br />
{{typetable|Ice}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|226<br />
|{{MSP|226|Mantine}}<br />
|{{p|Mantine}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|227<br />
|{{MSP|227|Skarmory}}<br />
|{{p|Skarmory}}<br />
{{typetable|Steel}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|249<br />
|{{MSP|249|Lugia}}<br />
|{{p|Lugia}}<br />
{{typetable|Psychic}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|250<br />
|{{MSP|250|Ho-Oh}}<br />
|{{p|Ho-Oh}}<br />
{{typetable|Fire}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|267<br />
|{{MSP|267|Beautifly}}<br />
|{{p|Beautifly}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|276<br />
|{{MSP|276|Taillow}}<br />
|{{p|Taillow}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|277<br />
|{{MSP|277|Swellow}}<br />
|{{p|Swellow}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|278<br />
|{{MSP|278|Wingull}}<br />
|{{p|Wingull}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|279<br />
|{{MSP|279|Pelipper}}<br />
|{{p|Pelipper}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|284<br />
|{{MSP|284|Masquerain}}<br />
|{{p|Masquerain}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|291<br />
|{{MSP|291|Ninjask}}<br />
|{{p|Ninjask}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|333<br />
|{{MSP|333|Swablu}}<br />
|{{p|Swablu}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|334<br />
|{{MSP|334|Altaria}}<br />
|{{p|Altaria}}<br />
{{typetable|Dragon}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|357<br />
|{{MSP|357|Tropius}}<br />
|{{p|Tropius}}<br />
{{typetable|Grass}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|373<br />
|{{MSP|373|Salamence}}<br />
|{{p|Salamence}}<br />
{{typetable|Dragon}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|384<br />
|{{MSP|384|Rayquaza}}<br />
|{{p|Rayquaza}}<br />
{{typetable|Dragon}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|396<br />
|{{MSP|396|Starly}}<br />
|{{p|Starly}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|397<br />
|{{MSP|397|Staravia}}<br />
|{{p|Staravia}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|398<br />
|{{MSP|398|Staraptor}}<br />
|{{p|Staraptor}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|414<br />
|{{MSP|414|Mothim}}<br />
|{{p|Mothim}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|415<br />
|{{MSP|415|Combee}}<br />
|{{p|Combee}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|416<br />
|{{MSP|416|Vespiquen}}<br />
|{{p|Vespiquen}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|425<br />
|{{MSP|425|Drifloon}}<br />
|{{p|Drifloon}}<br />
{{typetable|Ghost}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|426<br />
|{{MSP|426|Drifblim}}<br />
|{{p|Drifblim}}<br />
{{typetable|Ghost}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|430<br />
|{{MSP|430|Honchkrow}}<br />
|{{p|Honchkrow}}<br />
{{typetable|Dark}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|441<br />
|{{MSP|441|Chatot}}<br />
|{{p|Chatot}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|458<br />
|{{MSP|458|Mantyke}}<br />
|{{p|Mantyke}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|468<br />
|{{MSP|468|Togekiss}}<br />
|{{p|Togekiss}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|469<br />
|{{MSP|469|Yanmega}}<br />
|{{p|Yanmega}}<br />
{{typetable|Bug}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|472<br />
|{{MSP|472|Gliscor}}<br />
|{{p|Gliscor}}<br />
{{typetable|Ground}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|479<br />
|{{MSP|479F|Rotom}}<br />
|{{p|Rotom}}{{tt|*|Fan Rotom in Generation V only}}<br />
{{typetable|Electric}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|492<br />
| align=center | {{MSP|492S|Shaymin}}<br />
|{{p|Shaymin}}{{tt|*|Sky Forme only}}<br />
{{typetable|Grass}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|519<br />
|{{MSP|519|Mamepato}}<br />
|{{p|Mamepato}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|520<br />
|{{MSP|520|Hatooboo}}<br />
|{{p|Hatooboo}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|521<br />
|{{MSP|521|Kenhorou}}<br />
|{{p|Kenhorou}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|527<br />
|{{MSP|527|Koromori}}<br />
|{{p|Koromori}}<br />
{{typetable|Psychic}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|528<br />
|{{MSP|528|Kokoromori}}<br />
|{{p|Kokoromori}}<br />
{{typetable|Psychic}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|561<br />
|{{MSP|561|Shinbora}}<br />
|{{p|Shinbora}}<br />
{{typetable|Psychic}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|566<br />
|{{MSP|566|Aaken}}<br />
|{{p|Aaken}}<br />
{{typetable|Rock}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|567<br />
|{{MSP|567|Archeos}}<br />
|{{p|Archeos}}<br />
{{typetable|Rock}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|580<br />
|{{MSP|580|Koaruhie}}<br />
|{{p|Koaruhie}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|581<br />
|{{MSP|581|Swanna}}<br />
|{{p|Swanna}}<br />
{{typetable|Water}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|587<br />
|{{MSP|587|Emonga}}<br />
|{{p|Emonga}}<br />
{{typetable|Electric}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|627<br />
|{{MSP|627|Washibon}}<br />
|{{p|Washibon}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|628<br />
|{{MSP|628|Wargle}}<br />
|{{p|Wargle}}<br />
{{typetable|Normal}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|629<br />
|{{MSP|629|Baruchai}}<br />
|{{p|Baruchai}}<br />
{{typetable|Dark}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|630<br />
|{{MSP|630|Barujiina}}<br />
|{{p|Barujiina}}<br />
{{typetable|Dark}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|642<br />
|{{MSP|642|Voltolos}}<br />
|{{p|Voltolos}}<br />
{{typetable|Electric}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
|645<br />
|{{MSP|645|Landlos}}<br />
|{{p|Landlos}}<br />
{{typetable|Ground}}<br />
{{typetable|Flying}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Moves==<br />
===Damage-dealing moves===<br />
{| {| align=&quot;center&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;background: #{{flying color}}; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #{{flying color light}};&quot;<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| border=1 width=&quot;100%&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; style=&quot;background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color}}; border-collapse:collapse;&quot;<br />
|- style=&quot;background:#{{flying color light}}&quot;<br />
! Name<br />
! Category<br />
! Contest<br />
! Power<br />
! Accuracy<br />
! PP<br />
! width=&quot;70pt&quot; | Target<br />
! Notes<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Acrobat}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|???}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 55<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 15<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Can hit any target on the field. If the user has no held item, the attack power is doubled.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Aerial Ace}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 60<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 20<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Never misses.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Aeroblast}}<br />
{{Statustable|Special}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 95%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 5<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Has a high critical hit ratio.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Air Cutter}}<br />
{{Statustable|Special}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 55<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 95%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 25<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | Both foes<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Has a high critical hit ratio.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Air Slash}}<br />
{{Statustable|Special}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 75<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 95%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 20<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Has a 30% chance of causing the opponent to {{status|flinch}}.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Bounce}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cute}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 85<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 85%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 5<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | User jumps the first turn, then strikes the next turn. Has a 30% chance of {{status|paralyzing}} the opponent.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Brave Bird}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cute}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 120<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 15<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | User takes 1/3 recoil damage.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Chatter}}<br />
{{Statustable|Special}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Smart}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 60<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 20<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | May confuse foe.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Drill Peck}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 80<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 20<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | No added effect.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Fly}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Smart}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 90<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 95%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 15<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | In battle: User flies up the first turn, then strikes the next turn.&lt;br&gt; Out of battle: Can be used to fly to visited cities.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Freefall}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|???}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 60<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 10<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | First turn, the user takes a target into the air.&lt;br&gt;Second turn, the target takes damage.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Gust}}{{tt|*|Normal-type move in Generation I}}<br />
{{Statustable|Special}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Smart}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 40<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 35<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Deals double damage to a target using Fly or Bounce.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Peck}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 35<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 35<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | No added effect.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Pluck}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cute}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 60<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 20<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | If the target has a [[Berry]], the user takes it and uses it. <br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Sky Attack}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 140<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 90%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 5<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | User charges first turn, then strikes second turn. Has a 30% chance of making the target {{status|flinch}}. Has a high critical hit ratio.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Windstorm}}<br />
{{Statustable|Special}}<br />
{{Contesttable|???}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 120<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 70%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 10<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Has a 30% chance of {{status|confusing}} the opponent.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Wing Attack}}<br />
{{Statustable|Physical}}<br />
{{Contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 60<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 35<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | No added effect.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Non-damaging moves===<br />
{| {| align=&quot;center&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; style=&quot;background: #{{flying color}}; -moz-border-radius: 1em; border: 5px solid #{{flying color light}};&quot;<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| border=1 width=&quot;100%&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; class=&quot;sortable&quot; style=&quot;background: #FFFFFF; border:1px solid #{{flying color}}; border-collapse:collapse;&quot;<br />
|- style=&quot;background:#{{flying color light}}&quot;<br />
! Name<br />
! Category<br />
! Contest<br />
! Power<br />
! Accuracy<br />
! PP<br />
! width=&quot;70pt&quot; | Target<br />
! Notes<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Defog}}<br />
{{statustable|Status}}<br />
{{contesttable|Beauty}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 15<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | In battle: Lowers target's evasion 1 level.&lt;br&gt; Out of battle: Clears thick [[Weather conditions#Fog|fog]].<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|FeatherDance}}<br />
{{statustable|Status}}<br />
{{contesttable|Beauty}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 15<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | One target<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Lowers target's {{Stat|Attack}} 2 levels.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Mirror Move}}<br />
{{statustable|Status}}<br />
{{contesttable|Smart}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 100%<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 20<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | User copies the last move that targeted this Pokémon.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Roost}}<br />
{{statustable|Status}}<br />
{{contesttable|Cool}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 10<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | User<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | User regains half of its max HP, then loses the Flying type until its next turn.<br />
|-<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | {{m|Tailwind}}<br />
{{statustable|Status}}<br />
{{contesttable|Smart}}<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | &amp;mdash;<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | 30<br />
| class=&quot;c&quot; | User and Ally<br />
| class=&quot;l&quot; | Doubles {{stat|Speed}} of the user's side for {{tt|4|3 prior to Generation V}} turns.<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* The Flying type has been paired with every other type, except the {{type2|Fighting}}.<br />
** Although Normal is not typically paired up with other types, it is the most common type paired with Flying.<br />
** Every dual-typed Flying Pokémon has Flying as its secondary type.<br />
* At least two Normal/Flying evolutionary lines and at least one Water/Flying Pokémon have been introduced in every generation so far.<br />
* Strangely, all types that resist Flying (Electric, Rock and Steel) are weak to Ground and all types that resist Ground (Bug and Grass) are weak to Flying.<br />
**However, because Flying-types are both immune to Ground and are not weak to Flying-types themselves, Ground and Flying do not create perfect type coverage (As all Electric/Flying, Rock/Flying, and Steel/Flying Pokémon resist them.)<br />
* With the introduction of {{p|Shaymin}}'s Sky Forme, each generation has introduced at least one part-Flying legendary Pokémon.<br />
* There has been a Flying-type Pokémon introduced in every generation whose name begins with the letters M and S.<br />
* For each possible [[Elemental type|type]] combination with a double weakness to Flying, there is at least one Pokémon with that type combination. Bug/Grass consist of {{p|Paras|two}} {{p|Parasect|Pokémon}} in the same line, Wormadam Plant Cloak, and {{p|Kurumiru|three}} {{p|Kurumayu|more}} {{p|Hahakomori|Pokémon}} in an evolutionary line, while Grass/Fighting and Bug/Fighting consist of {{p|Breloom|three}} {{p|Virizion|single}} {{p|Heracross|Pokémon}}.<br />
** The same is true for {{t|Water}}, {{t|Grass}} and {{type2|Psychic}}s.<br />
* Several Flying-type moves have nothing to do with the action of flying. Several of them are actually based on what birds can do.<br />
* Prior to Generation V, there were no pure Flying Pokémon. Even with Generation V, there is only one, {{p|Tornelos}}.<br />
**The only exception being Generation IV's Arceus, holding the flying type plate item.<br />
<br />
==In other languages==<br />
{{langtable<br />
|color={{flying color}}|bordercolor={{flying color light}}<br />
|ja='''ひこう''' (飛行) ''hikou''<br />
|zh_cmn='''飛行''' ''fēixíng'' <br />
|nl='''Vliegend'''<br />
|fi='''Lento'''<br />
|fr_ca='''Vol'''<br />
|fr_eu='''Vol'''<br />
|de='''Flug'''<br />
|el='''Ιπτάμενος''' - ''Iptamenos''<br />
|he='''מעופף''' ''meofef''<br />
|it='''Volante'''<br />
|ko='''비행''' ''bihaeng''<br />
|pl='''Latający'''<br />
|pt_br='''Voador'''<br />
|ru='''Летающий''' ''letayuschii''<br />
|es_la='''Volador'''<br />
|es_eu='''Volador'''}}<br />
[[de:Flug (Typ)]]<br />
[[es:Tipo Volador]]<br />
[[fr:Vol (type)]]<br />
[[ja:ひこう]]<br />
[[pt:Tipo Flying]]</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Illumise_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281263Talk:Illumise (Pokémon)2010-12-10T05:17:48Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia */</p>
<hr />
<div>I recently got a piece of trivia about Volbeat hatching from Illumise eggs reverted because &quot;it seems unlikely&quot;. I can actually tell you that this has happened to me, though I have no evidence I can show anyone. I bred an Illumise with a Ledian, and a Volbeat hatched. This was done on Pokémon Pearl, in case you want to know. --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 00:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Volbeat is the male version of Illumise. It's the same with Miltank/Tauros, and Nidoran. [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I know that. That has nothing to do with my edit being reverted, though. My fact was true, and it got reverted for being unlikely. --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]]<br />
<br />
:::Yes, it's true. An {{p|Illumise}} mother can produce a {{p|Volbeat}} egg regardless of whom the father is. The same goes for {{p|Nidoran♀}} and how it can produce a {{p|Nidoran♂}} egg.<br />
<br />
:::However, the same does not go for {{p|Miltank}} and {{p|Tauros}}. Miltank can only produce Miltank eggs, no Tauros. If Miltank were to be able to produce Tauros eggs, odds are they wouldn't have made Miltank available as a snag in [[Pokémon Colosseum]], a game that fixed the genders for the starter {{p|Espeon}} and {{p|Umbreon}} in order to prevent breeding for {{p|Eevee}} until [[Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen|FireRed &amp; LeafGreen]] came out (the Japanese version did the same with an e-Card {{p|Scizor}}). (No, {{p|Hitmontop}} wasn't fixed to be male-only since it was already male-only in the first place.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 00:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, but they did put Miltank in Colossuem. xD [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::...Ok, so now that another person has confirmed this fact as true, can I safely put the trivia back without it being reverted again? --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 01:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::: I would say so. It is a proven fact. So I see no reason why you can't. [[User:Trainer-c|Trainer-c]] 06:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Edit request ==<br />
<br />
→Pokedex entries<br />
:&lt;nowiki&gt;|heartgolddex={{tt|あまい かおりで バルビートを ゆうどうして ２００ いじょうの もようを よぞらに えがく。|With its sweet aroma, it guides Volbeat to draw over 200 patterns in the night sky.}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br />
♥ &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:15, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Small edit request in the anime Pokedex entries 'lure in Volbeat having them...' can you put a comma in between Volbeat and having. Thanks. [[User:Littlmiget123|Littlmiget123]] 22:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
Illumise resembles classical music conductor, including the &quot;wig&quot;, &quot;jacket&quot;, and &quot;bib&quot;. This is also backed up by an episode of the anime, where an Illumise conducts the actions for a group of Volbeat.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Illumise_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281262Talk:Illumise (Pokémon)2010-12-10T05:17:31Z<p>Tesseract: /* Trivia */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>I recently got a piece of trivia about Volbeat hatching from Illumise eggs reverted because &quot;it seems unlikely&quot;. I can actually tell you that this has happened to me, though I have no evidence I can show anyone. I bred an Illumise with a Ledian, and a Volbeat hatched. This was done on Pokémon Pearl, in case you want to know. --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 00:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Volbeat is the male version of Illumise. It's the same with Miltank/Tauros, and Nidoran. [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I know that. That has nothing to do with my edit being reverted, though. My fact was true, and it got reverted for being unlikely. --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]]<br />
<br />
:::Yes, it's true. An {{p|Illumise}} mother can produce a {{p|Volbeat}} egg regardless of whom the father is. The same goes for {{p|Nidoran♀}} and how it can produce a {{p|Nidoran♂}} egg.<br />
<br />
:::However, the same does not go for {{p|Miltank}} and {{p|Tauros}}. Miltank can only produce Miltank eggs, no Tauros. If Miltank were to be able to produce Tauros eggs, odds are they wouldn't have made Miltank available as a snag in [[Pokémon Colosseum]], a game that fixed the genders for the starter {{p|Espeon}} and {{p|Umbreon}} in order to prevent breeding for {{p|Eevee}} until [[Pokémon FireRed and LeafGreen|FireRed &amp; LeafGreen]] came out (the Japanese version did the same with an e-Card {{p|Scizor}}). (No, {{p|Hitmontop}} wasn't fixed to be male-only since it was already male-only in the first place.) --[[User:Shiningpikablu252|Shiningpikablu252]] 00:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Oh, but they did put Miltank in Colossuem. xD [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::...Ok, so now that another person has confirmed this fact as true, can I safely put the trivia back without it being reverted again? --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 01:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::::: I would say so. It is a proven fact. So I see no reason why you can't. [[User:Trainer-c|Trainer-c]] 06:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Edit request ==<br />
<br />
→Pokedex entries<br />
:&lt;nowiki&gt;|heartgolddex={{tt|あまい かおりで バルビートを ゆうどうして ２００ いじょうの もようを よぞらに えがく。|With its sweet aroma, it guides Volbeat to draw over 200 patterns in the night sky.}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;<br />
♥ &lt;span style=&quot;border: 2px dotted #FFBBDD;&quot;&gt;[[User:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;梅子&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;❀&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Umeko|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF99CC;&quot;&gt;&lt;sub&gt;✿&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:15, 7 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Small edit request in the anime Pokedex entries 'lure in Volbeat having them...' can you put a comma in between Volbeat and having. Thanks. [[User:Littlmiget123|Littlmiget123]] 22:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
Illumise resembles classical conductor, including the &quot;wig&quot;, &quot;jacket&quot;, and &quot;bib&quot;. This is also backed up by an episode of the anime, where an Illumise conducts the actions for a group of Volbeat.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dark_(type)&diff=1281243Talk:Dark (type)2010-12-10T04:56:56Z<p>Tesseract: /* The Implication of Dark */</p>
<hr />
<div>== The Implication of Dark ==<br />
<br />
I added a little quip in the Characteristics section about other features of the Dark-type, specifically how many of the moves are associated with deception and stealing, earning it the title &quot;Dark.&quot; I'm pretty sure Dark is not a reference to Night, even though Eevee involves into Umbreon at night, but I think that was just a way to showcase how Day and Night could be used in Gold/Silver. If anyone disagrees with this, I'm interested in your opinion--[[User:MJuice|MJuice]] 02:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)<br />
:The Japanese name for the type is Evil, so your observations aren't without support. However, over analyzing too much only adds fuel to the whole 'Pokemon is Satanic' argument.--[[User:Dual|Dual]] 04:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Late reply, but it seems rather likely to me that Dark actually refers to both. Darkness and nighttime are often used (both in Western and Eastern cultures, including Japan) as a symbolic reference to evil, especially the former. Several Dark Pokemon such as Murkrow also have a highly prominent connection to the night, be it evolutionary methods or location in the wild. Initially in Gold/Silver, it should be noted that every wild Dark Pokemon could only be found at night. Because of this, it is not necessarily true that the &quot;Dark = Night&quot; conception is a falsehood, so I don't think the night/darkness implications of the Dark type should be regarded as an outright misinterpretation so much as simply being opinionated. I've decided to remove the sentence containing this statement for that reason. [[User:Marlowe|Marlowe]] 18:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
good for you, now maybe you can stop spamming up the recent changes page huh? [[User:Happizelpom|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF7070&quot;&gt;Happi&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Happizelpom|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF8000&quot;&gt;zel&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Happizelpom|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#660099&quot;&gt;pom&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Just for the record, that doesn't stop others from seeing it in the recent changes. [[User:The Dark Fiddler|The Dark Fiddler]] - [[User talk:The Dark Fiddler|Smarter than the average bear!]] 19:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Moonlight Umbreon:But please,do not think ALL dark pokemon are evil.Umbreon evolves via happiness,Darkrai creates nightmares but wants to stop the battle between Dialga and Palkia,Houndoom saved a Togepi in the anime,and many dark type pokemon look like evil,but aren't. {{unsigned|Moonlight umbreon}}<br />
<br />
:::::No Pokémon are actually malevolent. <br />
:::::I'm not confident about the actual Pokémon but the moveset is definately focussed on a pragmatic approach to fighting: Pulling any trick to win as opposed to the honour of fighting types (who the attacks are weak against.) --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 16:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
Mischevious is dark's theme, not outright &quot;evil&quot;<br />
<br />
==Special?==<br />
Are Dark-type moves really counted as Special-type moves? Even though most Dark-type moves are physical-based? --[[User talk:Venomoth|☯ ]][[User:Venomoth|*Ɣℯⲛօӎօṫհ*]][[User talk:Venomoth| ☯]] 17:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)<br />
:That's how it is in the Generation III games. [[User:Tesh|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B7AD96;&quot;&gt;'''TESH'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User_talk:Tesh|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B7AD96;&quot;&gt;'''IGIGAS'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 20:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)<br />
::And Generation II. -Lord Hyren 02:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::At Earl's Pokémon Academy in Pokémon Stadium 2, one of his lectures for beginning Trainers lists the 17 types and clarifies whether moves of that type are based on Attack or Special Attack. That lecture lists Dark as Special. [[User:Superbreeder|Super]][[User talk:Superbreeder|breeder]] 03:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::::Why exactly ''is'' Dark special? There is only 1 special move. What determines a type as special or physical? &lt;span style=&quot;color: #00FF60; font-weight: normal&quot;&gt;Sivart345&lt;/span&gt; &lt;sup&gt;(&lt;span style=&quot;color: #00FF60&quot;&gt;[[User:Sivart345|user]] · [[User talk:Sivart345|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sivart345|contrib]]&lt;/span&gt;)&lt;/sup&gt; 20:59, 22 January 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::::Because that was decided by the moves type bfore Gen IV and when they added two types two generations earlier, Steel was more clearly physical so they went the other way with Dark to keep things even. When the physical/special split led them to take a closer look at the moves, it was fixed. --[[User:Fabu-Vinny|FabuVinny]] &lt;sup&gt;|[[User talk:Fabu-Vinny|Talk Page]]|&lt;/sup&gt; 16:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC) <br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
In the trivia section for [[Electric (type)]], it's mentioned that ''Because Electric's only weakness is to Ground, a pure Electric-type Pokémon with Levitate would have no weaknesses unless Gravity is used or the foe has Mold Breaker.'' Worth mentioning for Dark/Poison with Levitate? [[User:MaskedFalcon|MaskedFalcon]] 11:55, 19 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:No, because Dark's weakness is {{type2|Fighting}} and Poison's weakness is {{type2|Psychic}}.--'''[[User:Diby|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6890F0;&quot;&gt;D&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#F08030;&quot;&gt;i&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Diby|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#78C850;&quot;&gt;b&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Diby|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#F8D030;&quot;&gt;y&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 11:59, 19 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
::What I meant was, suppose we had a combination Dark/Poison type with Levitate. Since Dark's Fighting weakness is canceled by Poison's resistance and Poison's Psychic weakness is nullified by Dark's immunity, the Pokémon would have no weaknesses. [[User:MaskedFalcon|MaskedFalcon]] 12:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Language Translation ==<br />
<br />
dont remove or undo anything for enougth confusion pls .....[[User:Bakunawa|Bakunawa]] 08:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Zorua and Zoroark ==<br />
<br />
We should add them, seeing as we know that they are pure Dark-type. I already added them to the number of known Dark-types, but not to the list of them. [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] &lt;sup&gt;([[User_talk:TorchicBlaziken|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/TorchicBlaziken|edits]])&lt;/sup&gt; 15:03, 11 February 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Bite==<br />
<br />
This page lists Bite as having a 10% chance to flinch, but according to Bite's page it has had a 30% chance to since Gen II, shouldn't this page be changed accordingly? --[[User:Oryx|Oryx]] 23:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nevermind, it looks like it is actually Bite's page that is not correct. --[[User:Oryx|Oryx]] 02:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Until Generation IV... ==<br />
<br />
All pure dark types were either felines or canines. Can we add this to trivia?--[[User:Burgundy|&lt;font color=&quot;orange&quot;&gt;Bu&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot;&gt;rg&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk: Burgundy|&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot;&gt;un&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;dy&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:43, 17 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:pure coincidence [[User:Ataro|Ataro]] 18:45, 17 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Umbreon and Absol are indeterminate species anyways. It would have been better to say quadrupeds. But yeah. With only four pure Darks at the time, it ain't that notable. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:49, 17 October 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_unique_type_combinations&diff=1281239Talk:List of Pokémon with unique type combinations2010-12-10T04:54:16Z<p>Tesseract: /* More PKMN */</p>
<hr />
<div>Should we list Pokémon here twice? Like Surksit would be both under &quot;Bug&quot; and &quot;Water&quot;? Or would that be a bad idea? --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 11:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it should be listed only under its first type (Such as Bug with Surskit..) but that's just me. [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt;{{MS|281|Kirlia}} 15:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
Is Aron not there because there is already a Rock/Steel type??<br />
And is rhyhorn not listed beciz there already is Rock/Ground??<br />
I accidentally added rhyperior and others...<br />
like Aron and family is the only steel/rock... but beciz there is already rock/steel should it be added...?--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 09:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Families ==<br />
<br />
Do solrock/lunatone and latias/latios really count as families? They aren't evolution families just counterparts. We wouldn't say that zangoose/seviper are the same family. Or the electabuzz and magmar lines seeing as how they are usually represented together (normally only available in oppositely paired games, recieved same evolutionary families in same generation) So shouldn't the solrock/lunatone and latias/latios be removed? [[User:TheAlmightyChris|TheAlmightyChris]] 20:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:You missed the Nidos♥ Otherwise, no comment--[[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;K&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;kl&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;l&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]]&lt;/small&gt; 20:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I agree, Solrock/Lunatone and Latios/Latias and the Nidos shouldn't be considered families, since they don't evolve from or to each other. Maybe there should be a section for unique counterpart groups? Although, then you have the issue whether there are other counterparts (like seviper/zangoose) that could/should be included. It might be best if they're just removed. :-/ [[User:Jazzmoth|Jazzmoth]] 18:58, 25 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::But wait-In the case of the Nidos, they are technically related, considering that , when Nidoran(F)(Can't make female sign) breeds, it could be either Nidoran, like how any multi-gendered pokemon breeds, it could be either gender. They're only separated by Gen I's lack of genders. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Latios and Latias ARE related. It's in the 5th movie for crying out loud. Take a look at the [[Gender]] page. It says that Latios and Latias are counterparts. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Are we still talking about this? I don't know, but maybe in the case of Lunatone and Solrock, we should come up to discuss the meaning of the term &quot;family&quot;. Does it mean the actual relationship or the true evolutionary line? ''[[User:Kevin Y|&lt;font color=&quot;darkred&quot;&gt;Kevin Y&lt;/font&gt;]]'' ([[User talk:Kevin Y|&lt;font color=&quot;#083c6b&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 04:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I say cut Solrock and Lunatone until they get they get a shared form (like how Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan weren't related until Gen 2 introduced Tyrogue). Lati@s, however, are all but confirmed ingame as being the Legendary equivalent of the Nidos so they should probably stay put.{{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}<br />
<br />
What is Anorith and Armaldo doing there? Shuckle is also their type. :/ --[[User:Makupe|Makupe]] 23:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, Shuckle is Bug/Rock, not Rock/Bug.-- '''[[Dragon (type)|&lt;font color=&quot;#7038F8&quot;&gt;Dragonic&lt;/font&gt;]]''' [[Mask of Ice|&lt;font color=&quot;#7038F8&quot;&gt;'''ICE'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;(User:Cold)&lt;sup&gt;([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]])&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 23:31, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Spiritomb ==<br />
<br />
Spiritomb needs to be added but I'm not sure how to do it. Someone feel free to do it. This is my first time posting here &lt;small&gt;(User:RPinney)&lt;sup&gt;([[user:RPinney|page]], [[User talk:RPinney|talk]])&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 04:34, 15 April 2009 (CST)<br />
:Sprirtomb is not unique. It has the same type combination as [[Sableye]] --[[User:ASCII|ASCII]] 09:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think... [[User:ASCII|ASCII]] 09:41, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It is. Just the types are reversed. And type order doesn't mean it's unique.--[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hey.... ==<br />
<br />
Since they've announced the typings for Reshiram and Zekrom, can we add them, or do we have to wait for Black and White to come out? - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:Don't forget Meguroko :) [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] 16:01, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Latias and Latios. ==<br />
<br />
Well, {{P|Latias}} and {{p|Latios}} are a unique type pairing if they are to be counted in the same family, but not if there are two Pokémon that aren't related. We took off {{p|Solrock}} and {{p|Lunatone}} because they aren't. The frist paragraph states that they are either alone with their combination, or they share it with an evolutionary family. Maybe we should move them to families, or take them off? Or failing that, maybe mention this in the article. [[User:Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;Sam&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Purple&quot;&gt;john&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:contributions/Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Teal&quot;&gt;95&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I put Lati@s under families, but SpecialK reverted me. If he has a reason for this he can state it here within a few days or I'll revert over him because there is justification for what I did and apparently none for what he did. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 09:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Am I too late to put this :p? Latios and Latias are NOT related. [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Leiks]] [[Lucario (Pokémon)|Lucario]] [[User talk:SpecialK|and the]] [[User:Missingno. Master/Celebi Glitch|Celebi Glitch]] 16:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::But, if I do remember, they are considered to be a family in the movie Pokémon Heroes. However, the relation depends on whether you mean evolutionary family or bloodline family. [[User:Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#CD7F32&quot;&gt;Turtwig's&lt;/font&gt;]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF7F00&quot;&gt;A-B-Cs&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#green&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#yellow&quot;&gt;contribs&lt;/font&gt;]]) 16:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Format ==<br />
<br />
I dislike the format of this page... it seems unnecessarily segmented. We can make a sortable table which will allow people to sort by type. If single vs. family is that important, an additional column may be made indicating that. What do you guys think? - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Can you create a mockup in the userspace? I think this would be a good idea. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I will do so when the message to avoid userpage editing is gone. I couldn't even add this reply without getting multiple session errors. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 02:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That message is specifically referring to personal content. If it is something for the mainspace then the userspace limits are much less strictly enforced. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 07:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
Ah. Well, before I go further, here is my concept:<br />
{| class=&quot;expandable&quot;<br />
|<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;padding: 1px 1px 1px 1px;&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | #&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! class=&quot;unsortable&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Pokémon&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Name&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 1st<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 2nd<br />
|- class=&quot;unsortable&quot; <br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot; | Types<br />
|- <br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:400.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:648S.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:585{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:586{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| [[File:031.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| [[File:034.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| [[File:041.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| [[File:042.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| [[File:169.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| [[File:453.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| [[File:454.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
Not sure family even needs to be given a column; all we'd need to do is put a note at the top along with everything else stating that that any Pokémon that have the same type combo on the list are from the same family. Opinions? - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was thinking something more like this:<br />
{| class=&quot;expandable&quot;<br />
|<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! class=&quot;roundytl&quot; | #<br />
! class=&quot;unsortable&quot; | <br />
! Pokémon<br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;roundytr&quot; | Types<br />
|- <br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; colspan=&quot;5&quot; | '''{{typecolor|Normal}}'''<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|400|Bibarel}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|648S|Meloetta}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|585&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Shikijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|586&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Mebukijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; colspan=&quot;5&quot; | '''{{typecolor|Poison}}'''<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| {{MSP|031|Nidoqueen}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| {{MSP|034|Nidoking}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| {{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;3&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;3&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| {{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| {{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| {{MSP|453|Croagunk}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| {{MSP|454|Toxicroak}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
This way the families get their types merged to show that they are families, and we don't use those bulky sprites. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Merged cells largely screw up with sortable tables, because the merged cells aren't always next to each other. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 19:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Forgot about that. How about we use the first suggestion, but just use MS instead of the bulky sprites. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:22, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah the normal sprites are far too large. I just forgot to change them when I made my concept (it was late!). Nevertheless...simply removing the rowspan and making the colspans unsortable fixes that issue:<br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | #&lt;br&gt;<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;unsortable&quot; | {{MS|000}}<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Name&lt;br&gt;<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 1st<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 2nd<br />
|- class=&quot;unsortable&quot; <br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot; | Types<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|400|Bibarel}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|648S|Meloetta}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|585&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Shikijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|586&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Mebukijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| {{MSP|031|Nidoqueen}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| {{MSP|034|Nidoking}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| {{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| {{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| {{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| {{MSP|453|Croagunk}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| {{MSP|454|Toxicroak}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|}<br />
Only issue then is what to put in the MissingNo. link area, and whether to keep the row-spanning type name columns, &lt;s&gt;which only sort for the first type. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 05:42, 10 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Which do not sort meaningfully. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 05:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, I fixed the MS link—just us {{template|MS}} instead of {{template|MSP}}. Anyway, I removed the type headers as they just interfere with the sorting, and I guess they aren't that important. I edited your one because I didn't want to flood this page with more of an almost identical template. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== More PKMN ==<br />
<br />
Carvanha &gt; Sharpedo are Water/Dark. What other PKMN/Line shares this type? *Edit: oops, Crawdaunt, nvm :P*<br />
<br />
Also, Arceus with the Flying type plate was the 1st pure Flying type.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_unique_type_combinations&diff=1281238Talk:List of Pokémon with unique type combinations2010-12-10T04:52:43Z<p>Tesseract: /* More PKMN */</p>
<hr />
<div>Should we list Pokémon here twice? Like Surksit would be both under &quot;Bug&quot; and &quot;Water&quot;? Or would that be a bad idea? --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 11:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it should be listed only under its first type (Such as Bug with Surskit..) but that's just me. [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt;{{MS|281|Kirlia}} 15:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
Is Aron not there because there is already a Rock/Steel type??<br />
And is rhyhorn not listed beciz there already is Rock/Ground??<br />
I accidentally added rhyperior and others...<br />
like Aron and family is the only steel/rock... but beciz there is already rock/steel should it be added...?--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 09:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Families ==<br />
<br />
Do solrock/lunatone and latias/latios really count as families? They aren't evolution families just counterparts. We wouldn't say that zangoose/seviper are the same family. Or the electabuzz and magmar lines seeing as how they are usually represented together (normally only available in oppositely paired games, recieved same evolutionary families in same generation) So shouldn't the solrock/lunatone and latias/latios be removed? [[User:TheAlmightyChris|TheAlmightyChris]] 20:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:You missed the Nidos♥ Otherwise, no comment--[[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;K&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;kl&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;l&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]]&lt;/small&gt; 20:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I agree, Solrock/Lunatone and Latios/Latias and the Nidos shouldn't be considered families, since they don't evolve from or to each other. Maybe there should be a section for unique counterpart groups? Although, then you have the issue whether there are other counterparts (like seviper/zangoose) that could/should be included. It might be best if they're just removed. :-/ [[User:Jazzmoth|Jazzmoth]] 18:58, 25 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::But wait-In the case of the Nidos, they are technically related, considering that , when Nidoran(F)(Can't make female sign) breeds, it could be either Nidoran, like how any multi-gendered pokemon breeds, it could be either gender. They're only separated by Gen I's lack of genders. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Latios and Latias ARE related. It's in the 5th movie for crying out loud. Take a look at the [[Gender]] page. It says that Latios and Latias are counterparts. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Are we still talking about this? I don't know, but maybe in the case of Lunatone and Solrock, we should come up to discuss the meaning of the term &quot;family&quot;. Does it mean the actual relationship or the true evolutionary line? ''[[User:Kevin Y|&lt;font color=&quot;darkred&quot;&gt;Kevin Y&lt;/font&gt;]]'' ([[User talk:Kevin Y|&lt;font color=&quot;#083c6b&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 04:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I say cut Solrock and Lunatone until they get they get a shared form (like how Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan weren't related until Gen 2 introduced Tyrogue). Lati@s, however, are all but confirmed ingame as being the Legendary equivalent of the Nidos so they should probably stay put.{{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}<br />
<br />
What is Anorith and Armaldo doing there? Shuckle is also their type. :/ --[[User:Makupe|Makupe]] 23:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, Shuckle is Bug/Rock, not Rock/Bug.-- '''[[Dragon (type)|&lt;font color=&quot;#7038F8&quot;&gt;Dragonic&lt;/font&gt;]]''' [[Mask of Ice|&lt;font color=&quot;#7038F8&quot;&gt;'''ICE'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;(User:Cold)&lt;sup&gt;([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]])&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 23:31, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Spiritomb ==<br />
<br />
Spiritomb needs to be added but I'm not sure how to do it. Someone feel free to do it. This is my first time posting here &lt;small&gt;(User:RPinney)&lt;sup&gt;([[user:RPinney|page]], [[User talk:RPinney|talk]])&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 04:34, 15 April 2009 (CST)<br />
:Sprirtomb is not unique. It has the same type combination as [[Sableye]] --[[User:ASCII|ASCII]] 09:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think... [[User:ASCII|ASCII]] 09:41, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It is. Just the types are reversed. And type order doesn't mean it's unique.--[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hey.... ==<br />
<br />
Since they've announced the typings for Reshiram and Zekrom, can we add them, or do we have to wait for Black and White to come out? - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:Don't forget Meguroko :) [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] 16:01, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Latias and Latios. ==<br />
<br />
Well, {{P|Latias}} and {{p|Latios}} are a unique type pairing if they are to be counted in the same family, but not if there are two Pokémon that aren't related. We took off {{p|Solrock}} and {{p|Lunatone}} because they aren't. The frist paragraph states that they are either alone with their combination, or they share it with an evolutionary family. Maybe we should move them to families, or take them off? Or failing that, maybe mention this in the article. [[User:Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;Sam&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Purple&quot;&gt;john&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:contributions/Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Teal&quot;&gt;95&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I put Lati@s under families, but SpecialK reverted me. If he has a reason for this he can state it here within a few days or I'll revert over him because there is justification for what I did and apparently none for what he did. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 09:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Am I too late to put this :p? Latios and Latias are NOT related. [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Leiks]] [[Lucario (Pokémon)|Lucario]] [[User talk:SpecialK|and the]] [[User:Missingno. Master/Celebi Glitch|Celebi Glitch]] 16:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::But, if I do remember, they are considered to be a family in the movie Pokémon Heroes. However, the relation depends on whether you mean evolutionary family or bloodline family. [[User:Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#CD7F32&quot;&gt;Turtwig's&lt;/font&gt;]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF7F00&quot;&gt;A-B-Cs&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#green&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#yellow&quot;&gt;contribs&lt;/font&gt;]]) 16:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Format ==<br />
<br />
I dislike the format of this page... it seems unnecessarily segmented. We can make a sortable table which will allow people to sort by type. If single vs. family is that important, an additional column may be made indicating that. What do you guys think? - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Can you create a mockup in the userspace? I think this would be a good idea. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I will do so when the message to avoid userpage editing is gone. I couldn't even add this reply without getting multiple session errors. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 02:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That message is specifically referring to personal content. If it is something for the mainspace then the userspace limits are much less strictly enforced. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 07:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
Ah. Well, before I go further, here is my concept:<br />
{| class=&quot;expandable&quot;<br />
|<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;padding: 1px 1px 1px 1px;&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | #&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! class=&quot;unsortable&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Pokémon&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Name&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 1st<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 2nd<br />
|- class=&quot;unsortable&quot; <br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot; | Types<br />
|- <br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:400.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:648S.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:585{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:586{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| [[File:031.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| [[File:034.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| [[File:041.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| [[File:042.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| [[File:169.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| [[File:453.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| [[File:454.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
Not sure family even needs to be given a column; all we'd need to do is put a note at the top along with everything else stating that that any Pokémon that have the same type combo on the list are from the same family. Opinions? - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was thinking something more like this:<br />
{| class=&quot;expandable&quot;<br />
|<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! class=&quot;roundytl&quot; | #<br />
! class=&quot;unsortable&quot; | <br />
! Pokémon<br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;roundytr&quot; | Types<br />
|- <br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; colspan=&quot;5&quot; | '''{{typecolor|Normal}}'''<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|400|Bibarel}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|648S|Meloetta}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|585&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Shikijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|586&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Mebukijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; colspan=&quot;5&quot; | '''{{typecolor|Poison}}'''<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| {{MSP|031|Nidoqueen}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| {{MSP|034|Nidoking}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| {{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;3&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;3&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| {{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| {{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| {{MSP|453|Croagunk}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| {{MSP|454|Toxicroak}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
This way the families get their types merged to show that they are families, and we don't use those bulky sprites. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Merged cells largely screw up with sortable tables, because the merged cells aren't always next to each other. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 19:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Forgot about that. How about we use the first suggestion, but just use MS instead of the bulky sprites. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:22, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah the normal sprites are far too large. I just forgot to change them when I made my concept (it was late!). Nevertheless...simply removing the rowspan and making the colspans unsortable fixes that issue:<br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | #&lt;br&gt;<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;unsortable&quot; | {{MS|000}}<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Name&lt;br&gt;<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 1st<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 2nd<br />
|- class=&quot;unsortable&quot; <br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot; | Types<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|400|Bibarel}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|648S|Meloetta}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|585&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Shikijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|586&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Mebukijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| {{MSP|031|Nidoqueen}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| {{MSP|034|Nidoking}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| {{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| {{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| {{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| {{MSP|453|Croagunk}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| {{MSP|454|Toxicroak}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|}<br />
Only issue then is what to put in the MissingNo. link area, and whether to keep the row-spanning type name columns, &lt;s&gt;which only sort for the first type. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 05:42, 10 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Which do not sort meaningfully. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 05:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, I fixed the MS link—just us {{template|MS}} instead of {{template|MSP}}. Anyway, I removed the type headers as they just interfere with the sorting, and I guess they aren't that important. I edited your one because I didn't want to flood this page with more of an almost identical template. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== More PKMN ==<br />
<br />
Carvanha &gt; Sharpedo are Water/Dark. What other PKMN/Line shares this type?<br />
<br />
Also, Arceus with the Flying type plate was the 1st pure Flying type.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_with_unique_type_combinations&diff=1281237Talk:List of Pokémon with unique type combinations2010-12-10T04:52:07Z<p>Tesseract: /* More PKMN */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>Should we list Pokémon here twice? Like Surksit would be both under &quot;Bug&quot; and &quot;Water&quot;? Or would that be a bad idea? --[[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]] 11:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I think it should be listed only under its first type (Such as Bug with Surskit..) but that's just me. [[User:Tina|Tina]]&lt;sup&gt; [[Special:Contributions/Tina|δ]][[User talk:Tina|♫]]&lt;/sup&gt;{{MS|281|Kirlia}} 15:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Question ==<br />
Is Aron not there because there is already a Rock/Steel type??<br />
And is rhyhorn not listed beciz there already is Rock/Ground??<br />
I accidentally added rhyperior and others...<br />
like Aron and family is the only steel/rock... but beciz there is already rock/steel should it be added...?--[[User:Wowy|Wowy]] 09:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Families ==<br />
<br />
Do solrock/lunatone and latias/latios really count as families? They aren't evolution families just counterparts. We wouldn't say that zangoose/seviper are the same family. Or the electabuzz and magmar lines seeing as how they are usually represented together (normally only available in oppositely paired games, recieved same evolutionary families in same generation) So shouldn't the solrock/lunatone and latias/latios be removed? [[User:TheAlmightyChris|TheAlmightyChris]] 20:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
:You missed the Nidos♥ Otherwise, no comment--[[Blastoise (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;K&lt;/font&gt;]][[Gary's Blastoise|&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;kl&lt;/font&gt;]][[Blastoise (TCG)|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;l&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:Kkllnn|&lt;font color=&quot;pink&quot;&gt;nn&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;[[User Talk:Kkllnn| blastoise]]&lt;/small&gt; 20:24, 19 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
::I agree, Solrock/Lunatone and Latios/Latias and the Nidos shouldn't be considered families, since they don't evolve from or to each other. Maybe there should be a section for unique counterpart groups? Although, then you have the issue whether there are other counterparts (like seviper/zangoose) that could/should be included. It might be best if they're just removed. :-/ [[User:Jazzmoth|Jazzmoth]] 18:58, 25 December 2008 (UTC)<br />
:::But wait-In the case of the Nidos, they are technically related, considering that , when Nidoran(F)(Can't make female sign) breeds, it could be either Nidoran, like how any multi-gendered pokemon breeds, it could be either gender. They're only separated by Gen I's lack of genders. Me and my fellow torchics agree on this - Sk8torchic 16:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::Latios and Latias ARE related. It's in the 5th movie for crying out loud. Take a look at the [[Gender]] page. It says that Latios and Latias are counterparts. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 00:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Are we still talking about this? I don't know, but maybe in the case of Lunatone and Solrock, we should come up to discuss the meaning of the term &quot;family&quot;. Does it mean the actual relationship or the true evolutionary line? ''[[User:Kevin Y|&lt;font color=&quot;darkred&quot;&gt;Kevin Y&lt;/font&gt;]]'' ([[User talk:Kevin Y|&lt;font color=&quot;#083c6b&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 04:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I say cut Solrock and Lunatone until they get they get a shared form (like how Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan weren't related until Gen 2 introduced Tyrogue). Lati@s, however, are all but confirmed ingame as being the Legendary equivalent of the Nidos so they should probably stay put.{{unsigned|Blackstone Dresden}}<br />
<br />
What is Anorith and Armaldo doing there? Shuckle is also their type. :/ --[[User:Makupe|Makupe]] 23:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Actually, Shuckle is Bug/Rock, not Rock/Bug.-- '''[[Dragon (type)|&lt;font color=&quot;#7038F8&quot;&gt;Dragonic&lt;/font&gt;]]''' [[Mask of Ice|&lt;font color=&quot;#7038F8&quot;&gt;'''ICE'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;small&gt;(User:Cold)&lt;sup&gt;([[user:Cold|page]], [[User talk:Cold|talk]])&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 23:31, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
== Spiritomb ==<br />
<br />
Spiritomb needs to be added but I'm not sure how to do it. Someone feel free to do it. This is my first time posting here &lt;small&gt;(User:RPinney)&lt;sup&gt;([[user:RPinney|page]], [[User talk:RPinney|talk]])&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/small&gt; 04:34, 15 April 2009 (CST)<br />
:Sprirtomb is not unique. It has the same type combination as [[Sableye]] --[[User:ASCII|ASCII]] 09:40, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I think... [[User:ASCII|ASCII]] 09:41, 15 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::It is. Just the types are reversed. And type order doesn't mean it's unique.--[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:10, 16 April 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Hey.... ==<br />
<br />
Since they've announced the typings for Reshiram and Zekrom, can we add them, or do we have to wait for Black and White to come out? - [[User:Gold Dialga|Gold Dialga]]<br />
:Don't forget Meguroko :) [[User:Kikugi|Kikugi]] 16:01, 17 July 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Latias and Latios. ==<br />
<br />
Well, {{P|Latias}} and {{p|Latios}} are a unique type pairing if they are to be counted in the same family, but not if there are two Pokémon that aren't related. We took off {{p|Solrock}} and {{p|Lunatone}} because they aren't. The frist paragraph states that they are either alone with their combination, or they share it with an evolutionary family. Maybe we should move them to families, or take them off? Or failing that, maybe mention this in the article. [[User:Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;Sam&lt;/font&gt;]][[User talk:Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Purple&quot;&gt;john&lt;/font&gt;]][[Special:contributions/Samjohn95|&lt;font color=&quot;Teal&quot;&gt;95&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:10, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I put Lati@s under families, but SpecialK reverted me. If he has a reason for this he can state it here within a few days or I'll revert over him because there is justification for what I did and apparently none for what he did. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 09:26, 2 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Am I too late to put this :p? Latios and Latias are NOT related. [[User:SpecialK|SpecialK]] [[Mudkip (Pokémon)|Leiks]] [[Lucario (Pokémon)|Lucario]] [[User talk:SpecialK|and the]] [[User:Missingno. Master/Celebi Glitch|Celebi Glitch]] 16:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::But, if I do remember, they are considered to be a family in the movie Pokémon Heroes. However, the relation depends on whether you mean evolutionary family or bloodline family. [[User:Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#CD7F32&quot;&gt;Turtwig's&lt;/font&gt;]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|&lt;font color=&quot;#FF7F00&quot;&gt;A-B-Cs&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#green&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]] | [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|&lt;font color=&quot;#yellow&quot;&gt;contribs&lt;/font&gt;]]) 16:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Format ==<br />
<br />
I dislike the format of this page... it seems unnecessarily segmented. We can make a sortable table which will allow people to sort by type. If single vs. family is that important, an additional column may be made indicating that. What do you guys think? - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Can you create a mockup in the userspace? I think this would be a good idea. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:36, 7 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::I will do so when the message to avoid userpage editing is gone. I couldn't even add this reply without getting multiple session errors. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 02:11, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::That message is specifically referring to personal content. If it is something for the mainspace then the userspace limits are much less strictly enforced. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 07:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
Ah. Well, before I go further, here is my concept:<br />
{| class=&quot;expandable&quot;<br />
|<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;padding: 1px 1px 1px 1px;&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | #&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! class=&quot;unsortable&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Pokémon&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Name&lt;br /&gt;<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 1st<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 2nd<br />
|- class=&quot;unsortable&quot; <br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot; | Types<br />
|- <br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:400.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:648S.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:585{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | [[File:586{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}.png]]<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| [[File:031.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| [[File:034.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| [[File:041.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| [[File:042.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| align=&quot;center&quot; style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| [[File:169.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| [[File:453.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| [[File:454.png]]<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
Not sure family even needs to be given a column; all we'd need to do is put a note at the top along with everything else stating that that any Pokémon that have the same type combo on the list are from the same family. Opinions? - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 08:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:I was thinking something more like this:<br />
{| class=&quot;expandable&quot;<br />
|<br />
|-<br />
| <br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! class=&quot;roundytl&quot; | #<br />
! class=&quot;unsortable&quot; | <br />
! Pokémon<br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;roundytr&quot; | Types<br />
|- <br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; colspan=&quot;5&quot; | '''{{typecolor|Normal}}'''<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|400|Bibarel}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|648S|Meloetta}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|585&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Shikijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|586&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Mebukijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; colspan=&quot;5&quot; | '''{{typecolor|Poison}}'''<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| {{MSP|031|Nidoqueen}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| {{MSP|034|Nidoking}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| {{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;3&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;3&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| {{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| {{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| {{MSP|453|Croagunk}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| {{MSP|454|Toxicroak}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
|}<br />
|}<br />
This way the families get their types merged to show that they are families, and we don't use those bulky sprites. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:21, 9 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Merged cells largely screw up with sortable tables, because the merged cells aren't always next to each other. &lt;span class=&quot;sc&quot;&gt;[[User:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#2D4B98;&quot;&gt;Werdnae&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Werdnae|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009000;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/small&gt; 19:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Forgot about that. How about we use the first suggestion, but just use MS instead of the bulky sprites. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:22, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah the normal sprites are far too large. I just forgot to change them when I made my concept (it was late!). Nevertheless...simply removing the rowspan and making the colspans unsortable fixes that issue:<br />
{| class=&quot;bluetable c sortable&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | #&lt;br&gt;<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;unsortable&quot; | {{MS|000}}<br />
! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; | Name&lt;br&gt;<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 1st<br />
! &amp;nbsp; 2nd<br />
|- class=&quot;unsortable&quot; <br />
! colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot; | Types<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 400<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|400|Bibarel}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Bibarel|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{water color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Water}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 648<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|648S|Meloetta}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Meloetta|1b45c1}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;small&gt;([[Form differences#Meloetta|Step Forme]])&lt;/small&gt;<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}; {{roundybr|5px}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff;&quot; | 585<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|585&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Shikijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Shikijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 586<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{MSP|586&lt;!--{{#switch: {{#time: F}}|February|June|October=S|March|July|November=A|April|August|December=W}}--&gt;|Mebukijika}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff&quot; | {{pcolor|Mebukijika|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{normal color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Normal}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{grass color}};&quot; |{{typecolor|Grass}}<br />
|-<br />
| 031<br />
| {{MSP|031|Nidoqueen}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoqueen|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|- <br />
| 034<br />
| {{MSP|034|Nidoking}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Nidoking|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{ground color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Ground}}<br />
|-<br />
| 041<br />
| {{MSP|041|Zubat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Zubat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 042<br />
| {{MSP|042|Golbat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Golbat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 169<br />
| {{MSP|169|Crobat}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Crobat|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{flying color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Flying}}<br />
|-<br />
| 453<br />
| {{MSP|453|Croagunk}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Croagunk|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|-<br />
| style=&quot;background:#fff; {{roundybl|5px}}&quot; | 454<br />
| {{MSP|454|Toxicroak}}<br />
| {{pcolor|Toxicroak|1b45c1}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{poison color}}&quot; | {{typecolor|Poison}}<br />
| style=&quot;background:#{{fighting color}}&quot; |{{typecolor|Fighting}}<br />
|}<br />
Only issue then is what to put in the MissingNo. link area, and whether to keep the row-spanning type name columns, &lt;s&gt;which only sort for the first type. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 05:42, 10 October 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Which do not sort meaningfully. - [[User:DanPMK|MK]] (&lt;sup&gt;[[User Talk:DanPMK|t]]&lt;/sup&gt;/&lt;sub&gt;[[Special:contributions/DanPMK|c]]&lt;/sub&gt;) 05:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Well, I fixed the MS link—just us {{template|MS}} instead of {{template|MSP}}. Anyway, I removed the type headers as they just interfere with the sorting, and I guess they aren't that important. I edited your one because I didn't want to flood this page with more of an almost identical template. --[[User:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#444444&quot;&gt;'''Snorlax'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:SnorlaxMonster|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#C3C3C3&quot;&gt;'''Monster'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== More PKMN ==<br />
<br />
Carvanha &gt; Sharpedo are Water/Dark. What other PKNM/Line shares this type?<br />
<br />
Also, Arceus with the Flying type plate was the 1st pure Flying type.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Rhydon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281218Talk:Rhydon (Pokémon)2010-12-10T04:21:20Z<p>Tesseract: /* Origin */</p>
<hr />
<div>== First Pokémon ==<br />
<br />
'''''According to interviews with Ken Sugimori, Rhydon holds the distinction of being the first Pokémon ever created. This is supported by Red and Green listing it as first in its programming data.''''' I know about its being first in the programming data, but mind giving us/linking to a source that states its being the first 'mon ever created? [[User:Frugali|Frugali]] 12:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Yeah, i'd like to see that too. Because Mew was created in 1990, right? So was Rhydon before that? [[User:CherryParanoia|CherryParanoia]] 17:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Does anyone have the interview?--'''[[User:Immewnity|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#88AADD&quot;&gt;''immewnity''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Immewnity|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#627DB7&quot;&gt;the&lt;/span&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#335577&quot;&gt;mew&lt;/span&gt;]]''' 21:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Origin ==<br />
<br />
How exactly is rhydon not heavily influenced Baragon?<br />
Methinks some certain bug catching game designer likes kaiju films. --[[User:Sandflapjack|Sandflapjack]] 19:45, 11 August 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It does bear a resemblance to Baragon... And so does Nidoking! --[[User:Bad Grim|Bad Grim]] 21:24, 7 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:Unless pop culture is explicitly stated to be an origin by Pokémon, then no. - [[User:050294|050294]] 22:29, 7 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
::Pokemon's origins are rarely &quot;explicitly stated,&quot; so if that were our criteria we'd never get any origins at all. A better rule of thumb is &quot;unless pop-culture as the origin is blindingly obvious.&quot; Sometimes it is, like with {{p|Wobbuffet}}, but in this case there's just not enough evidence. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 00:14, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
:::I agree with you, but [[user:Sketch|Sketch]] says that unless it is explicitly stated it can not be added. That is why {{p|Ulgamoth}} is apparently not based on Mothra and that is just my, and many other user's, opinions. Meh. - [[User:050294|050294]] 23:51, 8 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
Rhinoceros &gt; Rhinosaurus</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fossil&diff=1281214Talk:Fossil2010-12-10T04:11:55Z<p>Tesseract: /* Other &quot;living fossils&quot; */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>If it was this easy to clone Pokemon, why didn't Dr. Fuji use it to revive Bulbasaurtwo, Charmandertwo, and Squirtletwo? [[User:TorchicBlaziken|TorchicBlaziken]] 22:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:What!?!? ~[[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#003366&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''$aturn'''&lt;/font&gt;]][[User:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#008000&quot; face=&quot;comic sans ms&quot;&gt;'''¥oshi'''&lt;/font&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|&lt;font color=&quot;#800000&quot;&gt;THE VOICES&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Lid Fossil name confusion==<br />
<br />
Is it called the Lid fossil or Shell fossil? Because in some places it is called Shell fossil. [[User:Pokemaster97|Pokemaster97]] 16:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Multi Fossils ==<br />
<br />
Some articles talk about Remoraid fossils, and even Brawl/RBY itself has a stage of a Kabutops fossil. Is this notable to talk about? [[User:Ht14|ht14]] 03:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)<br />
: *cough* We could make this article much more expansive if we do so. [[User:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#B69E00&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;'''''ht'''''&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Ht14|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E1E1E1&quot;&gt;&lt;small&gt;''14''&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==HGSS==<br />
Where are fossils revived in Johto? The article doesn't list a location.--[[User:Purimpopoie|Purimpopoie]] 19:49, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
:In HGSS you can revive them at the [[Pewter Museum of Science]]. I guess I should add that to the article... [[User:Zesty Cactus|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#006400&quot;&gt;'''Zesty'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Zesty Cactus|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3CB371&quot;&gt;'''Cactus'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:51, 29 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==SHINY FOSSIL==<br />
Is it possible to get shiny fossils because the sprites of Cranidos,Sheildon,Lileep (those guys) have shinys because I want shiny LILEEP!!!!!!!!!!!! [[User:Vulpix 2010|Vulpix 2010]] 10:50, 15 May 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Gen V ==<br />
<br />
I dont know how to do it, and im not sure what the bag sprites are, but ive found out that {{p|Aaken}} revives from wing fossil, and puratooga is from an (i dont know yet) unnamed fossil. both found in ancient castle. could someone add it please? i dont know how! thanks!--[[User:Ben7229|Ben7229]] 19:11, 5 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
:They're called the Feather and Shell/Lid Fossils. I'm waiting for BP's romanization of the Shell/Lid fossil before I put it. It's [[User:Turtwig A|Turtwig A]]! [[User talk:Turtwig A|My talk]] or [[Special:Contributions/Turtwig A|wiki edits]] 16:31, 24 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
::We're using Wing and Shell, iirc. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 10:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It stills unknown because of the translation from japanese to english. In japanese, every character and every word have multiple meanings. Sakas 18:08, 27 October 2010 (UTC)SakasFixe<br />
<br />
==Fossil Pokémon==<br />
Should we have a page specifically on the Pokémon which can be revived from fossils? Said page could include base stat totals, comparisons, whathaveyou. I think there are enough of them now that such a page could be worthwhile. --[[User:AndyPKMN|Andy&lt;sup&gt;P&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;K&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;sup&gt;M&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub&gt;N&lt;/sub&gt;]] 01:57, 7 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other &quot;living fossils&quot; ==<br />
<br />
What about mentioning other dinosaur like pokemon, like Lapras, Tropius, Aaron/Lairon/Aggron... ? Relicanth is mentioned.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kabutops_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1281209Talk:Kabutops (Pokémon)2010-12-10T04:08:28Z<p>Tesseract: /* Ancestor of Scyther? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>==Kabutops's Fossil==<br />
The fossil's image from the museum should be paced in the article as is the case with Aerodactyl, but where would be the appropriate place to put it? -Lord Hyren 19:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
:I added in the image in the trivia section, I think it looks interesting to any passing viewers. -Lord Hyren 19:55, 21 June 2008 (UTC)<br />
==Eurypterid Design Basis==<br />
Changed from Trilobite to Eurypterid. Kabutops is a lot more like a Eurypterid anyway. Makes sense. -Zog<br />
<br />
== Trivia ==<br />
<br />
There is something wrong with the last piece of trivia.I don't know how to fix it.Help please!--[[User:Frostagin|Frostagin]] 21:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:What exactly is wrong [[User:Turtwig A|Turt]][[wig]] [[Turtwig (Pokémon)|A]] '''''[[Special:Contributions/Turtwig_A|Contributions]]''''' '''''[[User talk:Turtwig A|Talk]]''''' 21:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
Sorry. I think my computer is being weird.--[[User:Frostagin|Frostagin]] 21:33, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
:Adding a space before writing something puts a blue box around it. This problem has been solved. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 21:34, 18 August 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cat ==<br />
<br />
[[:Category:Pokémon]] error. Just look.--'''[[User:Immewnity|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FE2E9A&quot;&gt;''Mew''&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Immewnity|a.k.a.]] [[Special:Contributions/Immewnity|Immewnity]]''' was here at 22:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== HGSS fossil? ==<br />
<br />
Does Kanutops appear as a fossil in HGSS? If so, could some1 upload the sprite? [[User:ShinyPikachu|&lt;small&gt;Shiny&lt;/small&gt;]] [[User:ShinyPikachu|&lt;span style=&quot;background:#FFFF00&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#E57E4C;&quot;&gt;'''Pika'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:34, 17 November 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Name origin ==<br />
<br />
There is a genus of trilobite named [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phacops Phacops] as well as several other genera such as &quot;Paciphacops, Kainops, Reedops, Eldredgeops, Chotecops, Viaphacops, Drotops, Eophacops&quot; (see also [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phacopidae this] page). I think a sound argument could be made that the &quot;ops&quot; in &quot;Kabutops&quot; is a reference to the naming convention of this family of trilobites. - [[User:TIMMY|TIMMY]] 03:04, 6 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ancestor of Scyther? ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering if a section should be added to the trivia, detailing the possible relation of the species, like there is on he Aggron page about Bastiodon.</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Clair&diff=1280139Talk:Clair2010-12-08T22:29:42Z<p>Tesseract: /* Outfit? */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>Raging Badge? How come Rising Badge was the only thing I ever heard, even before it came out in English?<br />
<br />
It may have been a early mistranslation, but that's what was on my Gym Leader files.<br />
<br />
- Zeta<br />
<br />
---------<br />
<br />
She hands out the ライジング バッジ. This is clearly &quot;Rising Badge&quot;. --[[User:Meowth346|Meowth346]]<br />
<br />
-<br />
<br />
So... Kamon = Silver? Isn't that just his default name in the japanese versions? it might make more sense to link directly to [[silver (game)]]. --[[User:Greengiant|Greengiant]] 01:34, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)<br />
<br />
My fault, I wasn't paying attention and was putting Hiro and Kamon on the pages. I thought I edited my mistakes to all be Gold and Silver (to be the same as using Red and Blue), but I missed that one. --[[User:Meowth346|Meowth346]]<br />
<br />
Wait a second! Did Lance train under Clair or did Clair train under Lance? How could Clair teach a member of the Elite 4?--'''''[[User:Jmath|Jmath]] 15:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)'''''<br />
<br />
---------<br />
<br />
This page claimed that Clair lost not only to Lance but &quot;presumeably to the player's rival&quot;, as there is absolutely no reason why this would be presumed given in the game, I took this out. (Silver is not documented to get a single badge throughout the game) {{unsigned|Gastly's mama}}<br />
<br />
---------<br />
<br />
I think it should be noted in the trivia that Clair is the only Johto Gym Leader whose Pokémon roster has been altered in HeartGold and SoulSilver from what it was in the Generation II games (one of her Dragonair has been substituted for a Gyarados). [[User:Watchermark|Watchermark]] 23:44, 10 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Not the only one ==<br />
<br />
She is not the only one to use a Pokémon outside her specialty, the leader just before her does so as well, having Seel, which only evolves into a Water/Ice, but is pure Water. Not to mention Sabrina in RB/FrLg and Giovanni in Yellow (and RB/FrLg outside the Gym battle). Clair is the only one to have the roster altered between GSC and HgSs however. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 08:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:True. That was poorly worded and I have replaced it with the fact you mentioned. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 09:08, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Apparently that isn't true either, Brock and Janine also have different Pokémon. [[User:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;'''Mr. Charlie'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;small&gt;([[User_Talk:Mr. Charlie|&lt;font color=&quot;#0000FF&quot;&gt;''TalkToMe''&lt;/font&gt;]])&lt;/small&gt; 15:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Only Johto leader then. &amp;mdash;'''&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Verdana&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#000&quot;&gt;darklord&lt;/span&gt;[[User talk:The dark lord trombonator|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#0047AB&quot;&gt;trom&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt;''' 19:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Time of the rematch battle in HGSS ==<br />
<br />
That's missing. Someone please add it. --[[Tracey Sketchit|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#33CC66;&quot;&gt;'''ケンジ'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User talk:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6600CC;&quot;&gt;'''の'''&lt;/span&gt;]][[User:Kenji-girl|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF00CC;&quot;&gt;'''ガール'''&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:56, 1 January 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Outfit? ==<br />
<br />
What exactly is said about her outfit in HG/SS?[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 22:29, 8 December 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Zebstrika_(Pok%C3%A9mon)&diff=1278040Zebstrika (Pokémon)2010-12-06T21:51:09Z<p>Tesseract: /* Name origin */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Unknown Pokémon}}<br />
{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Shimama | next=Dangoro | prevnum=522 | nextnum=524 | type=Electric }}<br />
{{PokémonInfobox|<br />
jname=ゼブライカ |<br />
tmname=Zeburaika |<br />
size=158px|<br />
caption=Art by [[Ken Sugimori]] from [[Black and White]]|<br />
pron=&lt;sc&gt;''{{{pron|zeh-boo-rai-kah}}}''&lt;/sc&gt; |<br />
species=&lt;!--らいでん--&gt;Thunder and Lightning |<br />
typen=1 |<br />
type1=Electric |<br />
abilityn=2 |<br />
ability1=Lightningrod |<br />
ability2=Motor Drive |<br />
abilityd=Herbivorous |<br />
ndex=523 |<br />
udex=029 |<br />
height-ftin=5'03&quot; |<br />
height-m=1.6 |<br />
weight-lbs=175.3 |<br />
weight-kg=79.5 |<br />
egggroupn=1 |<br />
egggroup1=Ground |<br />
egggroup2= |<br />
eggcycles=20 |<br />
expyield=174 |<br />
lv100exp=1,000,000 |<br />
gendercode=127 |<br />
color=Black |<br />
catchrate=75 |<br />
evsp=2|<br />
body=Unknown |<br />
pokefordex= |<br />
generation=5 |<br />
footnotes=}}<br />
([[List of Japanese Pokémon names|Japanese]]: '''ゼブライカ''' ''Zeburaika'') is an {{type2|Electric}} Pokémon introduced in [[Generation V]]. <br />
<br />
It evolves from {{p|Shimama}} starting at level 27.<br />
<br />
==Biology==<br />
===Physiology===<br />
Zeburaika is a zebra-like Pokémon, primarily black with various zigzagging stripes and bands on its body and limbs. Zeburaika has a long, pointed mane, with two thunderbolt-like protrusions on the top of the head. The mane extends down its back, ending in a starburst-like shape to form a tail-like feature.<br />
<br />
====Gender differences====<br />
None<br />
<br />
===Special abilities===<br />
Zeburaika is full of explosive power comparable to a flash of lightning. A thunderous roar can be heard when it runs at full speed.<br />
<br />
===Behavior===<br />
It has a violent temper and will shoot electricity from its mane when angered.<br />
<br />
===Habitat===<br />
<br />
===Diet===<br />
<br />
==In the anime==<br />
<br />
===Major appearances===<br />
<br />
===Minor appearances===<br />
<br />
==In the manga==<br />
===In the Pokémon Master Black &amp; White manga===<br />
In [[PBW03]], a [[Pokémon Ranger (trainer class)|Pokémon Ranger]] used one with his {{p|Swanna}} in a double battle against [[Monta]].<br />
<br />
==In the TCG==<br />
{{main|Zeburaika (TCG)}}<br />
<br />
==Game data==<br />
<br />
===Pokédex entries===<br />
{{Dex<br />
|type=Electric<br />
|gen=5<br />
|blackdex={{tt|いなずまのような しゅんぱつりょく。ゼブライカが ぜんそくりょくで はしると らいめいが ひびきわたる。|It has explosive power like a flash of lightning. Thunder echoes when a Zeburaika runs at full speed.}}<br />
|whitedex={{tt|きしょうが はげしく おこると たてがみから しほうはっぽうに でんげきを うちまくるので きけん。|It has a violent disposition; if it gets angry, the it will randomly shoot electricity from its mane in all directions, so be careful.}}<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Game locations===<br />
{{Availability|<br />
type=Electric|<br />
gen=5 |<br />
bwrarity=Rare|<br />
bwarea=[[Route]] {{rtn|7|Unova}}|<br />
}}<br />
<br />
====In side games====<br />
<br />
===Held items===<br />
{{HeldItems<br />
|type=electric<br />
|bw1=Cheri Berry|bw1type=Berry|bw1rar=50<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Stats===<br />
====Base stats====<br />
{{Base stats<br />
|type=Electric <br />
|HP=75<br />
|Attack=100<br />
|Defense=63<br />
|SpAtk=80<br />
|SpDef=63<br />
|Speed=116<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Type effectiveness===<br />
{{Type effectiveness|<br />
type1=Electric|<br />
Normal= 100 |<br />
Fighting= 100 |<br />
Flying= 50 |<br />
Poison= 100 |<br />
Ground= 200 |<br />
Rock= 100 |<br />
Bug= 100 |<br />
Ghost= 100 |<br />
Steel= 50 |<br />
<br />
Fire= 100 |<br />
Water= 100 |<br />
Grass= 100 |<br />
Electric= 50 |<br />
Psychic= 100 |<br />
Ice= 100 |<br />
Dragon= 100 |<br />
Dark= 100 |<br />
<br />
notes=yes |<br />
lightningrod=maybe |<br />
motordrive=maybe |<br />
herbivorous=maybe |<br />
}}<br />
<br />
===Learnset===<br />
====By [[Level|leveling up]]====<br />
{{learnlist/levelh|Zeburaika|Electric|Electric|5|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Quick Attack|Normal|Physical|40|100|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Charge|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|Start|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|4|Tail Whip|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|8|Charge|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|11|Shock Wave|Electric|Special|60|&amp;mdash;|20||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|15|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|18|Nitro Charge|Fire|Physical|50|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|22|Pursuit|Dark|Physical|40|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|25|Spark|Electric|Physical|65|100|20||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|31|Stomp|Normal|Physical|65|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|36|Discharge|Electric|Special|80|100|15||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|42|Agility|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|47|Wild Bolt|Electric|Physical|90|100|15||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/level5|53|Thrash|Normal|Physical|120|100|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/levelf|Zeburaika|Electric|Electric|5|5}}<br />
<br />
====By [[TM]]/[[HM]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tmh|Zeburaika|Electric|Electric|5|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM06|Toxic|Poison|Status|&amp;mdash;|90|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM10|Hidden Power|Normal|Special|&amp;mdash;|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM15|Hyper Beam|Normal|Special|150|90|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM16|Light Screen|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|30}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM17|Protect|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM18|Rain Dance|Water|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM21|Frustration|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM24|Thunderbolt|Electric|Special|95|100|15||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM25|Thunder|Electric|Special|120|70|10||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM27|Return|Normal|Physical|&amp;mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM32|Double Team|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM42|Facade|Normal|Physical|70|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM43|Nitro Charge|Fire|Physical|50|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM44|Rest|Psychic|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM45|Attract|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM48|Canon|Normal|Special|60|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM50|Overheat|Fire|Special|140|90|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM57|Charge Beam|Electric|Special|50|90|10||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM68|Giga Impact|Normal|Physical|150|90|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM70|Flash|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM72|Volt Change|Electric|Special|70|100|20||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM73|Thunder Wave|Electric|Status|&amp;mdash;|100|20}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM87|Swagger|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|90|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM90|Substitute|Normal|Status|&amp;mdash;|&amp;mdash;|10}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM93|Wild Bolt|Electric|Physical|90|100|15||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/tm5|TM94|Rock Smash|Fighting|Physical|40|100|15}}<br />
{{learnlist/tmf|Zeburaika|Electric|Electric|5|5}}<br />
<br />
====By {{pkmn|breeding}}====<br />
{{learnlist/breedh|Zeburaika|Electric|Electric|5|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|019|Rattata}}{{MSP|020|Raticate}}{{MSP|135|Jolteon}}{{MSP|155|Cyndaquil}}{{MSP|156|Quilava}}{{MSP|157|Typhlosion}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|300|Skitty}}{{MSP|322|Numel}}{{MSP|327|Spinda}}{{MSP|449|Hippopotas}}{{MSP|450|Hippowdon}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|585|Shikijika}}{{MSP|586|Mebukijika}}|Double-Edge|Normal|Physical|120|100|15|||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|032|Nidoran♂}}{{MSP|033|Nidorino}}{{MSP|034|Nidoking}}{{MSP|135|Jolteon}}{{MSP|256|Combusken}}{{MSP|257|Blaziken}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|585|Shikijika}}{{MSP|586|Mebukijika}}|Double Kick|Fighting|Physical|30|100|30|||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|220|Swinub}}{{MSP|221|Piloswine}}{{MSP|473|Mamoswine}}{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|288|Vigoroth}}{{MSP|417|Pachirisu}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|427|Buneary}}{{MSP|428|Lopunny}}{{MSP|613|Kumasyun}}{{MSP|614|Tsunbear}}|Endure|Normal|Status|—|—|10|||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|161|Sentret}}{{MSP|162|Furret}}{{MSP|234|Stantler}}{{MSP|359|Absol}}{{MSP|448|Lucario}}|Me First|Normal|Status|—|—|20|||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|128|Tauros}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}{{MSP|209|Snubbull}}{{MSP|210|Granbull}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|551|Meguroco}}{{MSP|552|Waruvile}}{{MSP|553|Waruvial}}{{MSP|554|Darumakka}}{{MSP|555|Hihidaruma}}{{MSP|626|Buffalon}}|Rage|Normal|Physical|20|100|20||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|027|Sandshrew}}{{MSP|028|Sandslash}}{{MSP|050|Diglett}}{{MSP|051|Dugtrio}}{{MSP|083|Farfetch'd}}{{MSP|133|Eevee}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|134|Vaporeon}}{{MSP|135|Jolteon}}{{MSP|136|Flareon}}{{MSP|196|Espeon}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|470|Leafeon}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|471|Glaceon}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|234|Stantler}}{{MSP|255|Torchic}}{{MSP|256|Combusken}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|257|Blaziken}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|263|Zigzagoon}}{{MSP|264|Linoone}}{{MSP|449|Hippopotas}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|450|Hippowdon}}{{MSP|504|Minezumi}}{{MSP|505|Miruhog}}{{MSP|509|Choroneko}}{{MSP|510|Lepardas}}{{MSP|551|Meguroco}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|552|Waruvile}}{{MSP|553|Waruvial}}{{MSP|559|Zuruggu}}{{MSP|560|Zuruzukin}}{{MSP|585|Shikijika}}{{MSP|586|Mebukijika}}|Sand-Attack|Ground|Status|—|100|15|||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|023|Ekans}}{{MSP|024|Arbok}}{{MSP|052|Meowth}}{{MSP|053|Persian}}{{MSP|054|Psyduck}}{{MSP|055|Golduck}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|056|Mankey}}{{MSP|057|Primeape}}{{MSP|190|Aipom}}{{MSP|424|Ambipom}}{{MSP|197|Umbreon}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|215|Sneasel}}{{MSP|461|Weavile}}{{MSP|336|Seviper}}{{MSP|352|Kecleon}}{{MSP|434|Stunky}}{{MSP|435|Skuntank}}|Screech|Normal|Status|—|85|40||}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|522|Shimama}}{{MSP|523|Zeburaika}}{{MSP|587|Emonga}}|Shock Wave|Electric|Special|60|—|20||||'''}}<br />
{{learnlist/breed5|{{MSP|058|Growlithe}}{{MSP|077|Ponyta}}{{MSP|078|Rapidash}}{{MSP|086|Seel}}{{MSP|087|Dewgong}}{{MSP|111|Rhyhorn}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|112|Rhydon}}{{MSP|464|Rhyperior}}{{MSP|128|Tauros}}{{MSP|133|Eevee}}{{MSP|206|Dunsparce}}{{MSP|209|Snubbull}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|210|Granbull}}{{MSP|220|Swinub}}{{MSP|221|Piloswine}}{{MSP|473|Mamoswine}}{{MSP|231|Phanpy}}{{MSP|232|Donphan}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|234|Stantler}}{{MSP|261|Poochyena}}{{MSP|262|Mightyena}}{{MSP|322|Numel}}{{MSP|323|Camerupt}}{{MSP|399|Bidoof}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|400|Bibarel}}{{MSP|449|Hippopotas}}{{MSP|450|Hippowdon}}{{MSP|498|Tepig}}{{MSP|499|Chaoboo}}{{MSP|500|Enbuoh}}&lt;br&gt;{{MSP|506|Yorterry}}{{MSP|507|Haderia}}{{MSP|508|Murando}}{{MSP|585|Shikijika}}{{MSP|586|Mebukijika}}|Take Down|Normal|Physical|90|85|20|||}}{{learnlist/breedf|Zeburaika|Electric|Electric|5|5}}<br />
<br />
====By [[Move tutor|tutoring]]====<br />
{{learnlist/tutorh|Zeburaika|electric|electric|5|5}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutor5null}}<br />
{{learnlist/tutorf|Zeburaika|electric|electric|5|5}}<br />
<br />
====Special moves====<br />
<br />
===={{Trading Card Game}}-only moves====<br />
<br />
===Side game data===<br />
<br />
===Evolution===<br />
{{evobox<br />
|family=Normal<br />
|sprite1=522<br />
|name1=Shimama<br />
|type1-1=Electric<br />
|evotype1=Level<br />
|level1=27<br />
|sprite2=523<br />
|name2=Zeburaika<br />
|type1-2=Electric}}<br />
<br />
===Sprites===<br />
{{Sprite |<br />
type=electric |<br />
gen=5 |<br />
gender=none |<br />
name=Zeburaika |<br />
ndex=523 |<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Trivia==<br />
* Each of Zeburaika's abilities give it an immunity to a certain type.<br />
<br />
===Origin===<br />
Zeburaika appears to be based on a {{wp|Zebra}}. It may also be based on two of {{wp|Helios}}'s {{wp|Helios#Horses of Helios|steeds that pulled his chariot}}, Bronte and Sterope, who are known to humans as thunder and lightning, respectively; Zeburaika's species is the &quot;Thunder and Lightning Pokémon&quot;. <br />
<br />
====Name origin====<br />
Its name is likely a combination of {{wp|zebra}} and 雷火 ''raika'', flash of lightning. It's English name could possibly be Zebreaker, combining Zebra &amp; breaker (a breaker is an elecrical system component).<br />
<br />
&lt;!--==In other languages==<br />
*[[List of German Pokémon names|German]]: <br />
*[[List of French Pokémon names|French]]: <br />
*[[List of Korean Pokémon names|Korean]]:<br />
<br />
==External links==<br />
<br />
==Notes==<br />
&lt;references /&gt;<br />
--&gt;<br />
{{PokémonPrevNext | prev=Shimama | next=Dangoro | prevnum=522 | nextnum=524 | type=Electric }}<br />
{{Project Pokédex notice}}<br />
<br />
&lt;!--[[es:Zeburaika]]<br />
[[pl:Zeburaika]]<br />
[[pt:Zeburaika (pokémon)]]--&gt;<br />
<br />
[[de:Zeburaika]]<br />
[[fr:Zeburaika]]<br />
[[ja:ゼブライカ]]</div>Tesseracthttp://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Talk:Trend&diff=1264124Talk:Trend2010-11-23T01:26:05Z<p>Tesseract: Created page with &quot;I read a post by someone on another site in 2003/4, he had a ROM of Sapphire, and changed the phrase to &quot;Being High&quot;. He claimed it wouldn't work when he tried it in his Emerald ...&quot;</p>
<hr />
<div>I read a post by someone on another site in 2003/4, he had a ROM of Sapphire, and changed the phrase to &quot;Being High&quot;. He claimed it wouldn't work when he tried it in his Emerald cart.<br />
<br />
[[http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3310/pokemontrends1bt.png]]<br />
The first man asks if there's a connection between the trendy phrase, and random words. In this case, Heroine means female hero, not the drug.[[User:Tesseract|Tesseract]] 01:26, 23 November 2010 (UTC)</div>Tesseract