In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Looking at everything on the plan I still see it as more of a happy path estimate

In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Looking at everything on the plan I still see it as more of a happy path estimate

Slipping into 2020 is highly probable.

You know that.. and I know that... but saying Dec 2017 and then defending it was the height of arrogance.

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Doesn't every mmo developer ever that is making any game have unrealistic timelines in the beginning? I can't think of a single MMO that was announced and developed on their first timeline statement. I've seen a lot of hate towards CoE for their initial timeline. I just don't understand it... Actually, I've just seen a lot of unfounded hate in general towards this game.

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Doesn't every mmo developer ever that is making any game have unrealistic timelines in the beginning? I can't think of a single MMO that was announced and developed on their first timeline statement.

This one was over the top though. It was utterly unrealistic yet defended tenaciously by both the developer and fans. Their communication was utterly horrendous. On my multi-gaming guild boards there are folks that spent $1000 that were utterly convinced they would be playing the game a few months from now. And those threads were recent.

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Doesn't every mmo developer ever that is making any game have unrealistic timelines in the beginning? I can't think of a single MMO that was announced and developed on their first timeline statement. I've seen a lot of hate towards CoE for their initial timeline. I just don't understand it... Actually, I've just seen a lot of unfounded hate in general towards this game.

Yes, because they get more more money by giving unrealistic timelines. Even if they are trying to realize their dream MMO, they're also running a business and they will lie to get more money as long as we allow them to lie.

Also note that despite their earlier statements and those of the fans they have started to monetize the "free" things like the Prologue with the announcement of the Adventure Toolkit. So now you can buy DLC for the "free" placeholder that was promised to not slow down development of the main game.

But that's not all! They also announced they will sell MORE DLC for that DLC!! Yes!! After you buy the Adventure Toolkit you can also buy "content packs" for it...

This could be the first time someone has ever sold DLC for a placeholder to the real game... or at least DLC for the DLC of such...

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Doesn't every mmo developer ever that is making any game have unrealistic timelines in the beginning? ...

There's "unrealistic" and just plain laughable.

CoE's original timeline fell into the latter classification. They got heavy flak from me and a few others because of that, and because of their arrogant insistence that they COULD do it !

As we see now, they couldn't do the impossible after all.

But their plan worked initially, loads of gullible players gave them money, so I guess the end justifies the means, and all that. I hope the deception netted them enough cash to sustain development for the next 2 or 3 years. It will be difficult to repeat that trick again...

So you believe that people invested in the game because of the timeline for release? Almost every single person in the Kingdom I am a part of was fully aware that their timeline was unrealistic. We invested in the game because of what they propose to do. The features of the game are in line with what most of us have wanted. No one cared that they said they would be released whenever they said they would be releasing.

If their timeline was unrealistic (1.5+ years off even), it only makes you wonder what other promises and features turn out to be unrealistic. Not really a confidence booster.

Remember that time = money...

They are already dong bizarre things like saying their Alpha server will be packed up and shipped to different regions during the test instead of buying 4 of them. Also, mark my words, they will soon announce a great opportunity: More limited time sales!

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Most notable take away for me, they ran into the same issue CU did, hiring appropriate talent took much longer than expected.

As a result the schedule has slipped considerably and final launch is now targeted for 2nd half of 2019.

First MMO dev I've seen discuss project management principles and get it right.

Finally a realistic date!

If this guy (and his fans) had been realistic at the start he would have had much less negativity. Instead they were selling ridiculous timelines that some were defending by explaining how they were geniuses who were changing the way games were made. Remember... Kickstarter said Dec 2017. Now we are back to a normal MMORPG timeline. Q4 2019 is double the original estimate and is at least possible.

Doesn't every mmo developer ever that is making any game have unrealistic timelines in the beginning? ...

There's "unrealistic" and just plain laughable.

CoE's original timeline fell into the latter classification. They got heavy flak from me and a few others because of that, and because of their arrogant insistence that they COULD do it !

As we see now, they couldn't do the impossible after all.

But their plan worked initially, loads of gullible players gave them money, so I guess the end justifies the means, and all that. I hope the deception netted them enough cash to sustain development for the next 2 or 3 years. It will be difficult to repeat that trick again...

But what does that tell you? When their initial plan was all based on deception? So now they have offered a time frame that sounds reasonable, at least in general but is it realistic for this project? How would we even know? It just sounds to me, like they will say anything they think their audience wants to hear. Come 2019, will there by more adjustments that were deliberately kept secret? I dunno, of any project I've seen come across these forums, this one inspires the greatest amount of doubt with me. Everything about this one just seems wrong to me.

I'm not calling this a scam. I really think they want to make this happen. I just don't put any faith in what they are saying.

If their timeline was unrealistic (1.5+ years off even), it only makes you wonder what other promises and features turn out to be unrealistic. Not really a confidence booster.

Remember that time = money...

They are already dong bizarre things like saying their Alpha server will be packed up and shipped to different regions during the test instead of buying 4 of them. Also, mark my words, they will soon announce a great opportunity: More limited time sales!

I'd pretty much expect that they would offer additional sales. I should feel better that I'll see some return on my money by them taking in additional money. Not sure what the problem is there. Maybe if they ran more limited time sales they could afford to send out more than one alpha server.

If their timeline was unrealistic (1.5+ years off even), it only makes you wonder what other promises and features turn out to be unrealistic. Not really a confidence booster.

Remember that time = money...

They are already dong bizarre things like saying their Alpha server will be packed up and shipped to different regions during the test instead of buying 4 of them. Also, mark my words, they will soon announce a great opportunity: More limited time sales!

I'd pretty much expect that they would offer additional sales. I should feel better that I'll see some return on my money by them taking in additional money. Not sure what the problem is there. Maybe if they ran more limited time sales they could afford to send out more than one alpha server.

What is wrong is that they use the fake ETA to make people think the game is close.. have "limited time sales" and then push the date back and have more "limited time sales".

Don't worry... they will need tons more money so you will have plenty of opportunities to buy DLC for the DLC of the placeholder game!!

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

So you believe that people invested in the game because of the timeline for release? Almost every single person in the Kingdom I am a part of was fully aware that their timeline was unrealistic. We invested in the game because of what they propose to do. The features of the game are in line with what most of us have wanted. No one cared that they said they would be released whenever they said they would be releasing.

Well, either their original estimate was hopelessly wrong because they have no clue what they're doing, or else they knew full well it was wrong but straight-up lied.

If their timeline was unrealistic (1.5+ years off even), it only makes you wonder what other promises and features turn out to be unrealistic. Not really a confidence booster.

Remember that time = money...

They are already dong bizarre things like saying their Alpha server will be packed up and shipped to different regions during the test instead of buying 4 of them. Also, mark my words, they will soon announce a great opportunity: More limited time sales!

I'd pretty much expect that they would offer additional sales. I should feel better that I'll see some return on my money by them taking in additional money. Not sure what the problem is there. Maybe if they ran more limited time sales they could afford to send out more than one alpha server.

What is wrong is that they use the fake ETA to make people think the game is close.. have "limited time sales" and then push the date back and have more "limited time sales".

Don't worry... they will need tons more money so you will have plenty of opportunities to buy DLC for the DLC of the placeholder game!!

Yeah, but you're talking as though this was their business plan without any sort of proof. You're making large sweeping assumptions without any facts. Once again, you're simply illustrating why gamers can't handle transparency. Caspian spoke of it very gingerly, but the reality is that you were given much reasoning, yet you choose to ignore it in favor of your own rantings pushing your own agenda. So the reality is that people are either too retarded to understand what they're reading or willfully ignore what they're reading and replace it with their own paranoid delusions. Don't worry, though, you're not alone, there are plenty of others just like you making mmo gaming great again!

Seriously, it's like me reading a book about dragons to a child, then having to explain to them afterwards not to worry because dragons aren't real, only they don't believe me because they think that I'm somehow trying to trick them into NOT believing so that I can sacrifice them to the dragon when the time is right.

Your commentary on DLC further supports the idea that people simply can't handle transparency. The same thing happened with Destiny. There was DLC content in the Destiny 1 beta, and people believed that Bungie had then, afterwards, cut up Destiny into chunks after the fact. The reality is that DLC is planned years in advance and, obviously, it's probably completed even before the game is actually released. I know! Fucking crazy right?!?!? I don't understand why they can't just release the game and then start working on the DLC once it's released. I mean they have like 4 solid months of art, design, development, QA, and marketing time. That's more than enough time to push out a measly 4 hours of content, right?

Facts? The Facts are that THEY launched a Kickstarter with a totally unrealistic date. The FACTS are that THEY defended that date when challenged.

There are certainly people that can't handle facts and reality but it's certainly not the skeptics of this teams statements and timelines.

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

If their timeline was unrealistic (1.5+ years off even), it only makes you wonder what other promises and features turn out to be unrealistic. Not really a confidence booster.

It's fine to be optimistic and cheer for your favorite MMO creators, want to back them up and help justify why they can do something great for the first time that seasoned companies have had problems doing. But people who have been around awhile know that most games look great on paper and in the planning stages but saying a game will be great and innovative and making a great and innovative game are two different things. How many games have actually launched as they were originally planned, very very few. Even if the Devs have the best of intentions who can really be prepared to handle the unexpected problems that hit hard in development and execution?

I really wish them the best but I'm realistic about these kinds of things and take a wait and see attitude. If they promise the best game ever but their alpha and beta look average I often doubt there will be some last min. miracle that will fix all their problems. A buggy alpha and beta mean a buggy launch. Again I wish them the best but a new team is always learning as they go along, hence the changes in launch dates and unexpected changes in general.

I think my favorite fan defense for the ridiculously short release date was that Caspian had developed the engine over the last 10 years and everything was really far along, so it was totally plausible!