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Posted:4th Sep 2005Im a little curiouse, I wanna know when Im gonna have to go buy myself an electric car and say goodbye to my...(hopefully VW Beetle ) whatever it will be when I get one within the year. (takeing driving lessons soon)

Oh and will we be driing around in hydrogen powerd cars? I hope so, tho I would be a little parnoid that while im driving my car will suddenly explode

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

Posted:14th Sep 2005today.... went in 5 petrol stations on way to work and no diesel any where, finally at the 6th with my fuel light flashing I got 58.75 litres into my 60 litre tank, idiots panic buying when they don't need fuel screwing it up for us that do.... I use a diesel coz I drive a lot and they are more economic. I know the oil crisis etc, but cannot afford trains and they don't run when and where I need to travel. (I do up to 1000 miles a week and live 30 miles from work and 100 miles from my GF)

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

I think electric cars go abit faster than 30mph, i think they can go up to 60 or 70...im not sure tho.

Are we talking strictly electric or hybrids too??I sat through a presentation on the Prius hybrid and then went for a ride in one just the other week... We easily hit 200 kph on the highway.Yeah, someone else had the stats on gas usage... A Prius is a really, really cool car. Pretty popular over here, too!... Slightly off topic, but meh.

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked."Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.""How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice."You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

Posted:15th Sep 2005Well I mean completly electric, but hybrids wouldnt be so bad. I just think they shouldnt give us something to only half solve the problem, the faster we get cars that completly come off petrol and diesel, the better.

I think that its allways best to either do something properlly, or not do it at all.

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

Posted:15th Sep 2005yesterday when i walked to work i passed sainsburys garage and there were queues. on the way home 4 hours later, still queues. back again that night, and still....queues. when i went into sainsburys earlyer today i saw a paper next to the till, it showed a picture of a lone officer stood at the transport bit for the fuel. simply stating in the first paragraph

'where are they?'

is it me or was all this paniking, which i see as silly in the first place because it doesnt help, as pointless...?

Disclaimer:im not responsible for what i say or do whether it be before,during and after drinking alcoholic substances (owned by BMVC).Creater of Jenisms(TM)Virginity like bubble,one prick all gone.

Posted:15th Sep 2005To do things 'properly' would be to switch to totally renewable energy. Which would require about a 90% cut in our energy usage in the first world. I'm sorry but I really cant see that happening overnight. So its a case of small steps towards a sustainable future.

While hybrid (or for that matter electric cars generally) aren't a good example (as electricity is not generated mainly through renewable sources anyways...) any move in the right direction should be welcomed as long as it seen as exactly what it is... a step rather than a solution.

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

To most people that seems totally impractical, but it's really just a matter of seeing that the majority of our car use is purely down to characteristics of our society that can easily be changed.

From another recent thread, it's apparent that, like me, several posters on HOP do not own or use cars. Given the right circumstances (eg work being within walking distance etc) it's totally feasable to not have a car.

I'm glad fuel prices are going up, it's the best way, IMO, to encourage the necessary restructuring of society and attitudes.

Same goes with all energy use- we're going to have to find ways to use less.

We need realism- as many have pointed out, a switch to hybrid cars, or cars powered by hydrogen, is not that realistic as electricity and hydrogen production require energy, which is often from fossil fuels.

It's good to keep increasing fuel efficiency, but, however efficient a car is, it will always use more fuel than the alternative, of not having a car.

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."

To most people that seems totally impractical, but it's really just a matter of seeing that the majority of our car use is purely down to characteristics of our society that can easily be changed.

From another recent thread, it's apparent that, like me, several posters on HOP do not own or use cars. Given the right circumstances (eg work being within walking distance etc) it's totally feasable to not have a car.

I'm glad fuel prices are going up, it's the best way, IMO, to encourage the necessary restructuring of society and attitudes.

Same goes with all energy use- we're going to have to find ways to use less.

We need realism- as many have pointed out, a switch to hybrid cars, or cars powered by hydrogen, is not that realistic as electricity and hydrogen production require energy, which is often from fossil fuels.

It's good to keep increasing fuel efficiency, but, however efficient a car is, it will always use more fuel than the alternative, of not having a car.

the only way that would work is if there was a school a supermarket, and place of work within walking distance of every person in the country. Not to mention friends and familly would all have to be neighboures if we wanted to see them

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

the only way that would work is if there was a school a supermarket, and place of work within walking distance of every person in the country. Not to mention friends and familly would all have to be neighboures if we wanted to see them

It's called emphasising community, rather than the current, and ultimately counter-productive, approach of focusing purely on economic growth.

Check the link I posted above, where I tried to show that moving towards a more car-less society is entirely feasible.

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."

Posted:19th Sep 2005i think everyone is fogetting the real impact that no more oil will have on the western world.

oil, and petorl, are a vital part of the western world. not only our personal transport will be effected. supply goods (aka FOOD) will be harder to deliver

machines that produce everything need oil to function, so no more computers, or ipods, or tvs, or microwaves, or radios being mass produced, which will eventually make them more expensive

most clothing in the western world takes litres(or gallons) of oil to make, so new typs of clothes will be needed

actually, no more plastic anything will be created, cause plastic is majority oil

i suggest everyone read June 2004 National Geographic if they can get a hold of the article "The end of cheap oil", it'll be a nasty shock.

oh to quote the article relating to one adult cow "Raising this steer has taken an agricultural investment equal to 283 gallons of oil. That includes everything from fertilizers on cornfields to the diesel that runs machinery on the farm."

(funnily enough theres a show on TV atm about the oil crisis in america, so i will be departing hop to view it!)

Currently we grow a crop, ship it hundreds of miles to be packaged, ship it more miles to a distribution point, then ship it more miles to it's final point of sale. That's before we consider the fact that much food is grown in a different country (where labour is cheaper).

Very good for the economy (which, contrary to popular opinion, thrives on inefficiency and waste), very bad for fuel conservation and the future well-being of humanity.

The answers are simple- more emphasis on growing food near to where it will be consumed, more emphasis on local communities where people live near their workplaces, and a reversal of the current pro-car propaganda/marketing which gives higher social status to car ownership than it does to a car-free lifestyle.

Current levels of car ownership and fuel use are not at all essential for society to function (they are obviously essential for society to function in the way it does now, but that is besides the point).

One thing is clear- we are heading towards a future where fuel is going to continue to become scarcer and more expensive (and ultimately cease), thus change is inevitable.

Of two scenarios: -

one where the western world commits to changing its deep seated attitiudes towards fuel use and transport, and gradually and painlessly restructures in such a way that that level of fuel use becomes unnecessary;

and, the second, where the western world insists on it's current usage, leading to more wars as we fight and scrabble for the last remaining dregs (and then die anyway, realising that we were only putting off the inevitable)

I prefer the first

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."