Your complete Geordie’s guide to Newcastle United’s 2013-14 season!

Beefy’s ready for the new season, are you?Well, as you might know, though you might have missed it with all the other dramas which are unravelling at St James’ Park as I write this, the fixture list for the 2013-14 Premier League season was published at 9am this morning.

I have placed the full list of fixtures announced below, which starts with another tricky season opener away to Manchester City. However, this post is to let you know (amongst other things) that you will always be able to consult them throughout the season via our new “Newcastle United fixtures” section in the side bar on the right hand side of the site.

Match Banter / Match preview posts, highlights and full match videos.

I will be continuing with all the usual “match banter” posts / previews for each game, as well as being the first with highlights and where possible, online videos of the full match for those of you who are unable to watch them live so stay tuned throughout the season!

As usual, a few fixtures will inevitably be changed due to TV coverage, bad weather over the winter period or whatever, but I shall endeavour to keep well up to date with any announcements and alter them accordingly. I will also be keeping up with all the televised fixture announcements and update the fixtures list in the side bar, showing which games will be televised in the UK and by whom (eg Sky Sports, BT etc…)

NUFC Player of the season vote.

As you can see in the poll below, this site is currently holding it’s annual “Newcastle United player of the season” poll for the season just gone. If you haven’t voted already, it would be great if you could! I will be writing a post about the winner fairly soon.

GS, I don’t know why Ryder is even bothering with all that for Llambias, Seems a right waste of time.

Highlight of the season was getting to the Quarter Finals of
The Europa Cup, We didn’t do to badly there, But the rest was a nightmare.
I knew last summer Ashley wouldn’t do what was required to kick us on, And look at the state we are in now.

I think Llambias did walk because of Joe Kinnear. I think the real rift we’re seeing here is between Ashley and Dekka. Dekka was a Pardew man – he couldn’t get on with Hughton and made some mocking remark about why he was sacked. Besides, Hughton was simply “too nice”. Llambias was responsible for installing Pardew while Ashley looked on. Llambias no doubt wanted the 8-year deal while, again, Ashley looked on. Then it all went south, or “sowf” in their lingo. Ashley was pissed off and didn’t buy into all of Pardew’s crap, particularly after giving him an academy, a new training ground (underground heating), and the players he said he needed. The only one who could tell him straight, with a bit of blarney and an old Spurs connection thrown in, was Joe. Ashley clearly appointed him over Dekka and Alan’s heads. Dekka has walked while Pardew holds onto his contract in one hand but feels utterly dejected at the same time. As Bernard Shaw (or was it Noel Coward?) once said, “comedy is serious business.”

“The Standard is owned by Evgeny Lebedev, whose father, Alexander, an ex-KGB officer, is currently on trial in Russia on hooliganism charges. He punched a fellow tycoon in the face during an appearance on a television chat show.”

Alan Shearer says that he was “sickened” by Kinnear’s appointment, but isn’t he the man who let the worst manager in the known universe, Iain Dowie, manage us into relegation? Plus, we had to look at Iain Dowie’s contorted face every week in the dugout as we sunk ever deeper into the mire. Now that was truly sickening.

I think this whole thing smacks of typical Huffy Ashley, Not wanting to spend any money, And wants to rake in more money.
The way he sees it, He spent money in January, And now he thinks that should be it.
People like Pardew and Llambias are getting it in the neck, Because they cannot deliver his cheap dream of domination on a shoe string.
The plans between Pardew,Carr, And Llambias for the summer, Were probably going to cost more money, And he doesn’t want that, As he probably thinks the current squad are good enough for what he wants.

Whenever Ashley doesn’t get his way, He brings in people to scupper what’s already in place, To herald in a even cheaper situation.
He probably thinks Joe can bring in cheap kids from the 3 division, For next to nowt.
It’s completely crazy because Joe’s health is not up to it, And i have no doubt he will have to stand down again, Through ill health.
It looks like he is using Joe to move a few players and maybe a few others who he is now tired of, Because they making demands of him, That he doesn’t like, And he wants to make a few quid again, So the getting the names wrong, Is this not part of a ploy, Like the last time he was brought in.
Charles Insomnia leaves not long after being insulted, The same with Derek Lambezee, And no doubt Yohan Kebabs will be next!

Worky, I never had a problem with Joe coming on board in principal, If everyone was on board with it, And Derek getting duties on the transfer side reduced, Was a good idea.
As the days go past though, It’s now looking that Ashley is up to his old tricks, And the people being brought in, Are only being brought in, Because Ashley is a coward when it comes to doing things to peoples face,And he is getting other people to fire the bullets for him.

I would tend to agree with Paul in Hollywoods take on the events. It’s just possible that Ashley has had his “road to Damascus” moment. I wouldn’t be disappointed to see Pardew “man-up” and walk but I don’t think that will happen. What I do find disappointing is that Carver is looking unhappy at the situation.

Our first six games apart from ManC, providing we have managed to get the team playing more to it’s real potential, look like we could get off to a good start. If we don’t then it is going to be a tough season once again.

I see Kinnear has scuppered the Douglas deal, apparently has seen the new Viera in the conference league. (I made the last bit up :) )

Roy, I think even Ashley has underestimated how much of a coward Pardew is, I think he thought bringing in Joe might have the desired effect, It still might yet though!, As this sorry old saga is set to run and run!

Worky, both comments were in the football gossip of either Sky or the Beeb. Obviously I can’t vouch for the veracity of them but there is often some truth in these rumours.
We will have to wait and see if they are correct. Certainly wouldn’t surprise me.

Llambias has been one of Ashley’s biggest allies, So it is a bit of a surprise, Maybe he was starting to get too ambitious for him lol.
I wouldn’t have drove him out completely though, Because he hasn’t been too bad on the financial side.
He was crap at being involved in the transfer side of things, Most of the time, But for a rank amateur, He had a couple of good moments.
they definitely needed someone on that side of things, To sell the club to potential recruits etc.
He was a nightmare on the P.R side of things!

Worky @25: everybody wants to rewrite history and forget about Ugly Dowie. Keegan gets a strop on twice with us and walks out on England as well. If he had balls he would have stood up to the tat-maker and the little tw@t Wise as well.

Well we are a lot stable than we were, So he must have had some kind of input.
I’m not saying he’s in anyway a Whizz, But for someone who didn’t know his a**e from his elbow, He had a couple of moments, And to be fair they were saying they were more under control debt wise, Before they sold Carroll.

Joe, if we’re more “stable” than we were, that is mostly because Ashley is a billionaire where Shepherd and Hall were only millionaires. It has nothing to do with Llambias. We are more in debt than we were when Ashley took over the club, our sponsorship is shit and the club’s performance on revenue streams other than Andy Carroll has been pretty much piss poor.

Joe Hawkins: the finances aren’t really that great. Lambeezie sat there fiddling with his poker chips while the rest of the league caught up with us in terms of revenue. We should be making about the same as Spurs but we make about half (sure, they are in London but we have as much tradition going for us).

It is either that they don’t know what they are doing or Ashley is draining the profits. Norwich and the scum down the road can make about as much money as NUFC so the incredible and loyal fans we have are now undermined.

Worky, Steve Harper reckons Llambias done a lot of graft behind the scenes to help to get the financial side under control.
That article in the Independent reckons Ashley is peed off because last campaign cost him 40 million quid without any results.
He thought the Europa Cup was a waste of money, But if you get there you cannot knock it back.
The report reckons Ashley was pressured into the January deals, And was dismayed they went on to cost him more than what was agreed, And he could have got the players for nothing, In the summer.
The crack is Llambias offered his resignation last week, And Carr is on shaky ground, And it seems he has also cottoned on to the fact that Pardew isn’t much cop!

I doubt Mike Ashley woke up feeling too good about the day ahead. It’s a mess at NUFC right now, but I think his main concern is how much money he has sunk into the club not how much more he needs to spend. He’s also, no doubt, mightily pissed off with Llambias and Pardew who turned out to know sod all about football, and learning that he should have listened to the fans after all.

Paul man, Ashley can make his money back now if he wants. He tried to sell during a financial crisis and might even make a bit of a profit now given the TV money that all premier league clubs are making.

“Grumpy-as I said, best turd in the bowl competition. Take your pick, nobody had a really good season.”

tunyc, that might have been one of Pardew’s excuse offensives that stuck, ie that the team was shite through one phase of the season because Coloccini was absent. When he came back we did just enough to get past the finishing post, though the team was usually shite when Coloccini was present earlier in the season too.

Worky @ 56 – I think Pardew is so ‘kin clueless that he doesn’t know what he is supposed to say. His whole time at NUFC has been positioned between the proverbial rock and a hard place – the fans and the board – and both sides, he is now finding out, have figured him out and none too pleasantly. All he has is a piece of paper which is worth quite a lot of money so he’s hanging on to that. He’s smart enough to know it’s a lot better than going back on the dole. I think we can expect, at least until he is sacked some time next season, a great deal more of a spiv’s waffle.

Worky, Probably because he doesn’t want to go through the process of getting another manager in.
Ashley’s warped sense of looking at things, He probably thinks if Joe keeps an eye on him, He cannot f**k it up too much.

Joe, I think Harper is too sentimental to be a footballer. He likes his kids and dog. He should be like John Terry and get his kit on for a trophy presentation and his kit off to shag his friend’s wife.

Grumpy @ 73: yeah, he had personal problems and that probably affected him. Being human like the rest of us, however, he can be expected to a take care of his 9-to-5 most of the time despite those problems.

“Joe, I think Harper is too sentimental to be a footballer. He likes his kids and dog. He should be like John Terry and get his kit on for a trophy presentation and his kit off to shag his friend’s wife.”

Er, liking your own kids and dog makes you “too sentimental” to be a footballer, GS?

tunyc: Ashley and Co. totally f@cked up with Keegan. He was the best manager we ever had in 50 years. And he didn’t do bad at Fulham or Man City. England was a poisoned chalice, so you cant really blame him for that.

We will be lucky to make the top 10 in the premier league, but we should be comfortably mid-table if it wasn’t for par-don’t.

As we are now on to animals, just want to mention the Horizon programme where it was quoted that the 50 cats on the weeks trial “only” made 20 kills in a week. I extrapolated this figure and came up with a total of 208,000,000 kills in a year for all of the cuddly little felines.

The trouble is, We’re all sitting here trying to surmise what goes through Mike Ashley’s head.
The bloke is a complete nutter, And for every good decision he makes, There are 5 other decisions that border on the ridiculous.

“As we are now on to animals, just want to mention the Horizon programme where it was quoted that the 50 cats on the weeks trial “only” made 20 kills in a week.”

Grumpy, my Tiddles would do that in a day when he was alive, he was like Himmler, Heydrich and Eichmann all rolled into one. He used to make perfect pyramids of rat corpses for me in my garden all the time. Sentient beings of all kinds never troubled my garden for years, the whole area was almost bereft of any wildlife smaller than a cat when he was around. The survivors all fled to refugee camps outside the area surrounding my block.

I say “my” Tiddles, but he wasn’t even mine really. He was a lodger who moved into my place with the approval of his previous housekeepers.

She asked me what I do all day and I said I read Worky’s blog now and again, and play a bit of golf and mess around with the stock market. She said you are all so eloquent and lubricated on here (apart from Chuck).

Worky @93: she looked at your blog when I was reading it and was saying that she was surprised that a sports blog would not just talk about sports – maybe Mau Maus were mentioned that day. I told her Chuck was just drunk all of the time and to ignore him.

“Worky @93: she looked at your blog when I was reading it and was saying that she was surprised that a sports blog would not just talk about sports – maybe Mau Maus were mentioned that day.”

Well the English fans on here seem to be very intelligent as a whole. However there are quite a few Yanks on here too, and one thing I’ve noticed is that Yank “soccer” fans tend to be more well educated on average than English “football” fans. The more intellectually challenged people over there tend to prefer Nascar and that awful mess they call “football.”

worky-I was quite surprised when I learned that football is the workingman’s game and rugby is considered more genteel. Here you probably won’t get that much into football, or at least won’t stay into it as an adult, unless you have a cosmopolitan bent. It’s just not considered very American. Cosmopolitanism trends with education, literacy and intellect, so…

“worky-I was quite surprised when I learned that football is the workingman’s game and rugby is considered more genteel.”

It’s the schools for a start, tunyc. Public schools (the opposite of what they are over there) always play Rugby and Cricket. I couldn’t play football when I was at school until I was older and I changed schools after my parents left Durham City.

I was just talking to my mother. I had gone back to Seaton Burn 2 years ago and it was dead. Totally dead. The Six Mile Inn is now an Indian takeaway, the club is closed and The Drift Inn is a car park.

It is shite, shite and more shite. There used to be a community there. They (we) had pigeons and welfares and allotments and whippets, and a cricket club and pub football team. Now there is nothing.

It is like a dormitory town for Branson’s or Ashley’s crappy bank-heist or the tat-fest that we all know and love.

“This “American dream” thing is turning into a global nightmare. But thankfully, many are waking up and aren’t gonna take it anymore.”

Paul, it’s systematic and hard to unravel. They, and I don’t just mean the powers that be in the US but all over the place now have systematically destroyed all the institutions that bring ordinary people together and encouraged the things that drive ordinary people apart.

One of the best examples is the out of town shopping centre or “mall” and huge out of town supermarkets. John Hall did that to Newcastle with his godawful “Metro Centre.” The centre of Newcastle was like a boarded up ghost town for years after that thing was built. It changes the way people interact socially. It drives people apart and makes them easier to manipulate.

Have you ever watched the original 1970s George Romero “Dawn of the Dead?”

Worky, it’s a spiritual unraveling that’s taking place. If you really want a laugh, and to put the whole NUFC thing into some kind of bigger perspective, you can watch this talk I gave at a banned TEDx talk here in West Hollywood a couple of months ago.

Has any one noticed when ever you switch on the television, You will see the same blue boiler suited riot squads hitting people with batons, And doing them with tear gas.
It doesn’t matter which country it is, It’s the same scenario, Everywhere you look.
If you watch Russia Today, You will see a different take on the Geo-political Game.

“worky @ 109: ’bout time y’all joined us in our continuation of pre-war European society!”

Aye, but that was good old fashioned honest oppression, tunyc, without all the pretence about how they lived in the only free country in the world, a country where a tramp could become a plutocrat if he only wanted it enough when he actually lived in the most unequal country in the world. I’m not making a lazy anti American point though as you are right, capital has no fatherland, it’s just those lovely little refinements you developed over there. ;-)

We’ve gone the same way since that bloody woman and since then, people have progressively been working more for less as they have been stripped of all their rights whilst the top strata of society just get richer and richer.

According to the Daily Mirror, Joe was brought in to heal a rift between Carr and Pardew.
Pardew doesn’t think Carr’s players are good enough, And Carr Obviously thinks they are.
Pardew is not meant to rate Vurnon Anita at all, Hence not many chances to shine.

pete_toon – Because TED (“Ideas worth spreading”) has been hijacked by atheists and skeptics. You are not allowed to mention God or Consciousness (which is why Graham Hancock and Rupert Sheldrake’s talks were taken down.) You can’t even talk about GMOs because the dastardly hand of Monsanto has become entwined with TED in some form or other. It’s all a long story which you can follow online if you have the interest. Thanks for asking.

Paul, IF your into all this new age spirituality stuff, And i have heard of Aetherius Society, Is that the one founded by George King?
I was wondering what you thought of that French bloke who founded the Raelians, Claude Vorilhon.
I reckon he’s as dodgy as anything, A basically a Cult Leader, And a charlatan.

When I think of the term “new age,” I think of people dabbling with stuff and mixing and matching things willy nilly without any kind of deep understanding of the of the ususlly very old traditions from which they are drawing (I telt ye that “new” usually involves a con of some sort).

Paul in Hollywood says:
June 20, 2013 at 11:27 pm

“pete_toon – Because TED (“Ideas worth spreading”) has been hijacked by atheists and skeptics.”

And staying on the topic and things which start with “new” being a con, these “new” Athieists really get me friggin’ mad. They aren’t “new” at all, they’re just old fashioned closedminded, arrogant, fundamentalist bigots, nothing more. Even the supposed “intellectuals” of this movement like the recently departed Christopher Hitchens embarrass themselves by using the most basic logical fallacies to prosecute their hatred of anyone who isn’t like them.

Worky says: “Even the supposed “intellectuals” of this movement like the recently departed Christopher Hitchens embarrass themselves by using the most basic logical fallacies to prosecute their hatred of anyone who isn’t like them.”

Worky: why bring up Christopher Hitchens? He was a drunk old farty pants. If you want to bring up non-religious people then talk about Bertrand Russell and Sam Harris. Or even the pompous arsehole – what’s his name? Jeremy Clarkson, no, I mean that other pompous arsehole Dick Dawkins.

Hitchins could be entertainig, especially when arguing with religious bigots.
He could however also be annoying and bombastic.

Never been into cults, which are upon exanmination, usually nonesense, that attract the same people who are drawn to religious groups.

As far as those of us living in the US, who are football(soccer) fans, being more intellectual than Nascar or US football fans, just has no basis in fact and shows a bias based on unfamiliarity with the US.

As far as the US being a society that that has no problem with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
Apart from the Roosevelt inspired social compact years, during the depression until the post war era, lasting until globalization and bank deregulation.
There always existed an America that closely resembles that of to-days USA.
That particular era is in fact something of an aberration in American history.
As to why can the US not be more like Sweden, the answer is obvious, they could if they wanted to.

Back to football
Yes Joe, apparently the rift existed between Carr and Pardew and has been no doubt simmering for some time.
It appears to be a turf thing, i would say perhaps Pardew was left out of the decision-making, in regard to recruiting players.
Which most managers consider their turf.
We have recently heard him speak out about recruiting more senior (read older UK players)
But couched in diplomatic language, which is in fact a try for getting his own choice of players (hoofballers) as these Frenchies cant seem to understand good old kick and run.
Whereas Apparently Carr is saying something like the Frenchies are fine you just cant utilise them you tactical dummy.
And having spent a fortune at christmas (to avoid the drop)Ashley is not willing to spend again.
Now as i often stated here, Ashley has no one whom he can trust to make football judgements (Who’s he gonna ask Llambis who knows less than himself)
So it’s his old drinking buddy Joe, who comes on like gangbusters upsetting everyone and acting like a fool.
Firt order of business is cancelling the Douglas deal.
FFS it’s unlikely he even knows who the guy is, but he’s gonna stamp his authority on things.
As we know Pardew was Llambias boy and when the shit hit the fan, Joe saying he was in charge of transfers and Llambias was relieved of that side (he was never in charge of anything as far as i knew)Llambias saw the writing on the wall and did the right thing.
One down, one to go,
But i think they are going to have to use dynamite to get Pardew out, best of luck with that.
Then its deja vu all over again, just hope Joe dont get a nuver art attack out of it.

You don’t have to be a fan of someone to listen to their argument. I spent about 3 hours yesterday listening to Sam Harris and then Hitchens and 2 Rabbis talk about religion. The Rabbis made no sense at all. Their argument always came back to faith and belief as the justification for faith and belief.

I wonder sometimes though if I am just hearing what I want to hear. For example, I didn’t understand Paul in Hollywood’s talk. I don’t know much about Aliens and crop circles.

For what it is worth, my guess is that there are Aliens but they live a long, long way away and would have a difficult time getting to earth. Well maybe not, as by the looks of him we have one living in our midst – Ian Dowie.

And Sam Harris basically says man invented God, not the other way around. That if you substituted Thor or Zeus for God in the bible and everyday life you would be considered an idiot and that the human mind can play tricks. Perfectly logical?

The funniest bloke for talking about the human condition was, George Carlin R.I.P.
The way he put his view point across was highly original, “I pray to Joe Pesci, He’s a man who can get things done”.

I’m not a disbeliever, But i do think organized Religion is a massive problem for Humanity.
IMO it’s man made, And it’s only function is control, How could spirituality flourish in such conditions?
Say for instance you come from a background where you grow up Amish.
When you get to a certain age they let their children go on Rumspringa, Where they can have a drink, Smoke cigarettes etc.
Then they have to decide whether to become part of the Amish Community, The kicker is though, If you decide to leave the Community, Their own families disown them, Not very Christian is it!

Not to mention those tyrannical nutters from the Westboro Baptist Church, The Evil Phelps Family, Who picket soldiers funerals, And call everyone “Fag Enablers”, And everyone is going to hell, With their ridiculous placards.
The thing i find sad is, The effort they put in to making their hateful banners, It must take up all of their time to do them.
I thought the whole thing of Religion was, Love, Forgiveness, Love the sinner not the sin!, Peace, Enlightenment etc.
All of these things seem in short supply, Where some of these Religious groups are concerned.
If you live in a closed off, Narrow minded, Bigoted small circle, Who do you grow and learn as a person?
I think the human being must make mistakes, And learn from them, Otherwise you learn nothing, And have nothing to pass on to the younger generation, Coming up.

I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell, And i personally believe we live many Lifetimes, And each life we learn lessons, And a Spiritual Evolution takes place.
I believe we are part of collective consciousness that exists, That holds the Universe together, And everything else.
The only Hell that exists, Is the one you will create yourself.
I also believe in cause and effect, Some people might call it Karma.
Personally i think it is just like swinging a pendulum, If you maintain a steady rhythm, Then the balance will be maintained.
If you push it too hard, Then it will come back, And knock you over, Hence look at the damage we are doing to the planet.

Athiests do my head in, Because they bring nothing to the table.
They have a belief in disbelief, That sounds like a paradox in itself.
I’m not against Athiests, Each to their own, But i cannot abide people like Richard Dawkins, And others like them.
Who come across as agressive, Arrogant, And funny enough, Pontificate and look down on people who have faith.
They are becoming worse than the people they are supposed to oppose.
If you are an Athiest then why do you have to have a club, Or a society like The Humanists for instance.
If you attend someone’s send off from these mortal coils, Why are these idiots conducting their own ceremonies.
Surely it doesn’t really matter to them anyway.
It seems to me these people are becoming more like a Religion FFS, And are becoming closed minded in the same way.

I do think that in some ways organized religion is used as as a scapegoat sometimes also.
And lets nor forget some of the worst atrocities committed in recent times, Came from Governments who adhered to Athiest philosophies.

On the subject of Aliens or Extraterrestrials, Why not!, We exist, And it would be pretty arrogant to think we are the only living sentient beings out there.
If they are visiting us, I doubt they are travelling through space, But rather they are using a form of time travel, Which theoretically is possible.

Right i’m going to shut up, Because people will think i’m a cult leader, But i’m going to post a link so people can donate for a new roof for my complex, And my 20 wives and Followers can keep dry.

Hang on there is a knock at the door, There seems to be some men with A.F.T, Oh sorry it’s A.T.F AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!………

Joe: why is choosing not to believe any worse than choosing to believe?

Richard Dawkins is just annoying so whatever he says will come across badly. That doesn’t mean what he says is wrong.

And time travel: if that was possible, wouldn’t people be here now telling us they had travelled through time to help us out?

I am not an atheist. I still haven’t worked it all out :) If I believed in Karma and justice in the universe I would be a Barcelona or Man U fan. I am fated to be a NUFC fan for my sins in past lives.

And the atrocities that were committed by non-religious people had nothing to do with the fact they were non-religious. Pol Pot didn’t kill millions of people because he didn’t believe in God, he did it because he was a maniac. Same with Stalin.

Joe, I like the line of thinking. Frankly, I think the essence of all religions is the same, if you can get to what was actually being said, and that is “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, commonly known as the Golden Rule. It seems pretty obvious when you get down to it but for some reason it tends not to work out that way.

Back to the football, I think Llambias being out of the club is not a bad thing; it clears the air. Good to wake up this morning and find out Carr is staying. Pardew’s job is easy. Just play good football. It seems pretty obvious that Carr behind the scenes was saying to Pardew much the same as was being said on these blogs. Maybe he’ll now start to take notice.

Enough already, i relly dont want to hear about cults, religious beliefs or aliens or time travel and if i did i would find an appropriate blog, where people half assed knew what they were talking about.
As opposed to a bunch of disolusioned and bored football fans, excercising their egos.

Soh ! from reports we are happy to hear Mr. Carr has decided to stay, right ?
In which case things become a bit less opaque.
If Carr stays, but Pardew aint budging, then obviously Joe’s role is to budge him.
Well at least thats how things appear to me.
Probably hinges around Pardews pay off.
As i cant see the present situation being tolerable for Pardew.
It’s also rumored we may possibly lower our sights to bring in a cheaper alternative to Douglas (a Brasilian with Dutch citenship and a possibly a future Holland international)by signin Alex Pierce a one cap Irish international presently a free agent with Reading, a step above Williamson (perhaps? Worky may disagree)
Is it my imagination or do i see Ashley reverting to type here.
As the man never sez shit, even when he has a mouthfull, we will never know.
Ah well, same shit , different day.

GS, I think people like Dawkins are becoming more and more vitriolic in their views.
Like i mentioned earlier, Each to their own, As long as you are not ramming it down peoples throats.
The thing that worries me about them is, How long before their views spill over into violence?
What i have seen with Athiests, Is their views are becoming more militant.

Paul, I know where you are coming from, About the essence of the message, It just a crime that these teachings, Have been warped and used as a tool of control.
Personally i think there is a secret history of Humanity, Which in pat is connected to the Ancient Astronaut theory, And a lot of the relics that have been left over, Things like The Vedic Texts for example.

GS, I don’t think they would approach us yet, As we probably haven’t reached that level of understanding, And our brand of friendship, Is hostility!

“Enough already, i relly dont want to hear about cults, religious beliefs or aliens or time travel and if i did i would find an appropriate blog, where people half assed knew what they were talking about.
As opposed to a bunch of disolusioned and bored football fans, excercising their egos.”

Chuck, Even you have to concede that Mike Ashley probably isn’t Human, Because his decisions are Alien to me.
One thing is for sure, I am without a doubt, Disillusioned with Ashley and his sorry excuse for a board.

Chuck, I’ve got the jelly mould and the wedding cake models in the garage, At Area 51, I’m getting back tonight, So you won’t want to go for a spin, I was going to beam you out of your room, In the middle of the neet lol.

I forgot it was the summer solstice, And Britain’s true Religion, Druidism or Paganism.
Well i’m going to light a fire in the back garden, And sacrifice a couple of goats, Cos i doubt there will be any virgins around the Newcastle area, I’ll get me tin hat!

Hitchins could be quite entertaining as i mentioned, but to-wards the latter stages of his life, he made some radical philosophical about turns.
His support for the Iraqi war was from my viewpoint both unforgivable and puzzling.
His anti deist diatribes never bothered me, as they were usually directed at targets who deserved them.
I find that he was considered by any number of diverse groups as someone who’s attitudes they had no difficulty relating too, strange.
How does one who is skeptical of their being a God as we know him, within the three monotheist religions, describe themselves, when neither athiest nor agnostic fits, skeptic ?
Being within their religion, there are hundreds of different gods, how do Hindus keep track ?
I suppose their are the majors and minors, not unlike christianity’s saints.
Would you prefer attending a African American gospel meeting, or a high mass with incense, organ and choir, or a hell and brimstone sermon preached by a hardshell Baptist preacher or go to pray at a mosque numerous times a day or listen to the Rebbe every Saturday.
I suppose though persnally,not being much of a fan of organized religion, they may be a constant reminder to those attending, that life is not all,me ,me ,me !

You just reminded me of that particular california (the land of fruit and nuts) doomsday cult that were awaiting the comet Hale -bop which was to pick them up.
Well thirty nine of them commited mass suicide, so between whack jobs like these and the Jim Jones and Waco mob, you can undestand my being a bit leary of anything that smacks of the tem , cult.

Yes in the land of the druids, where they still light bonfires to celebrate the equinoxes both during the spring a autum, not some recent celebration of someones death, (Guy Fawkes, do they still do that?) but in fact a celebration of new life and a the reaping of the harvest.
Celebrations dating back over five thousand years (the age of Stonegrange, pre dating the Pyramids and Stonehenge.
Who’s main chamber is flooded with light during the winter solstice.
Now thats a culture with a bit of history.

Hmph. Going in for the very difficult and rhetorically unpopular exercise of criticizing atheists. Can’t say I’m surprised. Most of us are more conservative than we like to think.

I find Dawkins and his ilk strange. My atheism is based on a desire not to hold any central belief that necessarily dictates how I think of everything else. When they debate with believers, however, I find even “new” atheists easily more relatable, convincing and to be blunt, intellectually honest. In the final analysis, I think this “new” strain is an at-times-misguided attempt to correct the extreme imbalance of the dialogue. Note how even relatively free-thinking folks can’t mention atheism except as something that’s maybe acceptable, I guess, though its representatives sure are a smug, irritating bunch. This while speaking in the language of euphemism and idealism when discussing religious institutions with their absolutely non-theoretical “warts” and their often condescending, hypocritical, intolerant reprentatives.

Chuck-atheism is not a “belief in disbelief” but simply the opinion that gods, from Ptah to Yahweh to Apollo are a creation of man’s mind. That’s it. It seems to bother (confuse?) folks that I’m an atheist and Dawkins is an atheist, yet we don’t necessarily believe the same things…because atheism is not a religious orthodoxy.

By the way-plenty of theist religions (key: note how practitioners of current religions malign and dismiss historical cults) had absolutely nothing to do with morality. Here it’s very easy to get into that thing worky mentioned with “new” religion where you’re operating completely free of the historical/cultural roots that actually make it make sense.

Skepticism is something specific, philosophically speaking, Chuck. It’s about suspension of belief and avoidance of saying anything is true or not true. This is an important distinction. Myself, I have no problem describing myself as atheist and owning the possibility that I could be wrong. I could be wrong about the sun rising tomorrow, but I still believe it will. I find skepticism roundly cowardly. I guess it’s really about people thinking their opinion on the question “What is the ultimate nature of existence?” actually matters. I know my opinion there is meaningless. Even the most talented, educated physicists aren’t really sure what most of the universe is made of, or why matter in it behaves the way it does. Meanwhile great thinkers like Einstein and Hawking think the existence of ETs is absolutely inevitable but it’s still a laughable idea in the mainstream. So I answer the actual point of consequence when that question comes up: “What, in your opinion, is the ultimate nature of existence?” To which I believe I can be forgiven for answering, in part, I’m not completely sure but I am CONFIDENT that it is not ultimately the creation of, or regluated by an (or a group of) immortal, omnipotent but otherwise essentially human-like creature(s) whom we can not see and who used to speak directly to humans but doesn’t anymore. Nope, sure don’t. I also don’t believe anyone who tells me they can sell me that bridge I see out my window either. Difference is, people like me have never been burnt or tortured to death and had our bodies thrown in the garbage for saying the latter.

I’m gonna jump on the atheist thing here. Atheism isn’t a belief system. It’s not a world view. It’s a disbelief in gods b/c the religious folks who make claims of god’s or gods’ existence can’t meet the burden of proof. I don’t believe in deities because no one has been able to demonstrate their existence with evidence. That’s all atheism is. Secular Humanism is probably the philosophy/worldview that most atheists subscribe to, but I’m sure there are many who don’t.

Tunyc, I think Dawkins and that lot are trying to combat the growing stupidity in places like the States, where I live concerning science. There’s a lot of anti-science nonsense here pushed by evangelical christians and the like… b/c the science completely debunks their worldview. Different regions of the country suffer this to varying degrees… the Deep South is steeped in evangelical christianity in a way that would feel very foreign to you. If you’re curious about this at all (it’s bizarre by western European standards) check out godlessindixie.com… I grew up in the South in the 80’s and things have gotten much worse since I fled in the early 90’s.

tunyc
However you define atheism, it boils down to the same thing, a disbelief in their being a supreme being, prime mover whatever!
Regardless of by whom or how he was brought to our attention.
I have friends who are on either side of that argument, who are bright people.
However for the most part each knowing the others preference, we agree to not discuss it as neither side has any interest in proselytizing the other, plus there is no definative answer.
Other than having faith or a lack of it.

The disbelief is based on lack of evidence, however. There aren’t many atheists who assert “I have faith that there’s no god.”, though there are some to be sure. For me and many others, it’s the same as “belief” in leprechauns or unicorns. Their existence can’t be disproved… but there’s no evidence that such creatures exist either. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence as Carl Sagan used to say.

I certainly know what you mean in regard to both the deep south and the great bible belt area of the mid west.
Which even to this day are dominated by fundamentalist religious groups, who’s lifestyles and laws come directly from the bible.
Where religious non conformists and certainly athiests would be targeted by well meaning poeple to conform .
Many of course pay lip service, in order to make life easier.

Worky, That is strange in it’s self, If that’s the case, Who made us like that, Weird!
It’s like Genetic manipulation, Oh it’s them aliens again lol.
I see the debate is still raging, On questions of Theology, And the existence of the big fella.
Worky, Where is Clint Flick, When all this is going on, He’s one of the biggest Athiests going, HE HE HE!

What Chuck was saying earlier about not discussing anything but football on here. This is probably the only place I can discuss a subject like religion. Here in the US if you question anybody’s belief they get angry. I don’t think I would be bringing up religion in Iraq or Bradford either, not unless I want to see first hand if there is an afterlife. This is one area where I totally disagree with Sam Harris. He says that we should openly challenge people’s religious beliefs. That will just get you into trouble unless you are at a book club or fending off Jehovah’s Witnesses on your doorstep.

Any discussion of religion inevitably will end up going in circles because as I said before, the believers argument inevitably boils down to “I believe” or “I have faith” and you can’t dispute that.

I used to drive through Indiana a bit and there is a church on the highway for “Child Evangelicals” They get ’em young in the bible belt. Yep, that makes sense, having a 6 year old tell me what to believe :)

Here is what Pascal said (from Wikipedia). It makes perfect sense and still I don’t believe (:

“The wager

The philosophy uses the following logic (excerpts from Pensées, part III, §233):

1.”God is, or He is not”

2.A Game is being played… where heads or tails will turn up.

3.According to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.

4.You must wager. (It’s not optional.)

5.Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.

6.Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (…) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.”

My trouble with atheists is that they are looking for proof of “God”. Surely proof of God is in the fact that It Is. This bizarre mystery of life Is. It has to have come from somewhere, and it is unutterably vast and incredible, and there is a natural beauty to it besides a philosophical beauty to it. That intuitive awareness that feels connected to all else is enough for me to call that “God”. Religion is merely a context about how to live in a kind, compassionate way with all aspects of creation. Some need formal training, others don’t. Somewhere in this mix is a force or feeling called Love. A force and feeling that seems to be a bit lacking in the higher echelons of NUFC – but then big money tends to exclude it, and that you could say is the biggest problem with the breakdown of society at large. A pint of stout sounds good though, I’m with you on that Chuck!

Paul, the link worked fine for me, I watched it with my wife. We both have an interest in what you were saying and actually ran a few small UFO conventions several years ago. We had crop circle talks from Busty Taylor and Michael Green, Michael claims to have seen a circle as it was being created near to Stonehenge.
I think most of them are in fact man made although my wife become very dizzy on walking into one and she almost passed out. Possibly co-incidental but didn’t have problems with any others.

We climbed the Old Of Man Of Coniston on the day of the Eclipse several years ago and regret to say felt no particular vibes other than being knackered as we had to rush to get there in time.

I tend towards Joe’s thoughts on the collective conscious aspect of the Universe, I could digress more but might just drone on a bit.

From the comments I read here, I don’t believe we have a lot of devout believers who are in church every Sunday, “amen’ing” away. I could be wrong-others can let me know. Yet, from this thread:

“Athiests do my head in, Because they bring nothing to the table.” (Huh? What should I be brining to the table? The same sort of stuff that believers do?)

“I am not an atheist. I still haven’t worked it all out” (Atheists are arrogant folks who think they have figured out everything. Actually, that’s the claim of revelatory faith.)

“And the atrocities that were committed by non-religious people had nothing to do with the fact they were non-religious.” (Most atrocities-as is true of most human actions, ever, have been carried out by believers, who have always enjoyed giant majorities in every civilization. And GS is clearly more amenable to atheism than many here.)

“How long before their views spill over into violence?
What i have seen with Athiests, Is their views are becoming more militant.” (I hear this more and more. Whereas the mainstream view is that religions can be as militant, intolerant, sexist, etc. as they want-within the law, though that depends on whom you ask. This despite the long and checkered history of religious institutions.)

etc.

Reasonable folks here, but STILL they can’t even discuss atheism without inserting jabs about its social problematism. While in reality religion-as an institution-has a lot to answer for, whereas a lack of belief in the existence of gods does not and really can not. There really is no comparison there.

*ps-the aside in my comment @179 should have been directed at joe…thought Chuckles & I are the only ones to right walls of text like that.

Grumpy, have you ever seen Cambridge United? There’s well over 100,000 in Cambridge but their team is only in the Conference somewhere. I think their minds are focused on loftier pursuits in that area.

Paul: the thing I posted about Hawking I am not even sure I agree with, I mean, making something out of nothing. I am not smart enough to figure out how that is possible.

You seem like a very sensible person, but with different views to me. It is the intolerance that annoys me, on both sides of the issue. Stuff like crop circles, I can honestly say I don’t have an opinion on as I have never seen one or even read much about them.

You would think though that in these days of 400 TV channels and the internet that somewhere there would be definitive proof of miracles or aliens. And I am not talking about an image of Jesus on a grilled cheese sandwich.

Paul-the origin of life is rooted in the wonderful randomness and the inscrutible causality of the interactions of physical elements of the universe. I don’t understand why the need for more mystery than that.

worky @ 187: how do they define “religion”? An effective belief in something that can’t be observed? A need/impulse to assume reasons for events beyond basic, observable causality? I’m being serious.

Tripp-I’m from the U.S., grew up in Missouri and lived in North Carolina for a couple year. Believe me, I know what you mean. That doesn’t disturb me though, people there have always resisted cultural progressivism. What DOES worry me is the strident, judgmental and very politically connected and active form of evangelical christianity I encounter more and more in my current home city-NYC. Guy who sit next to me at work, whose wife doesn’t work fulltime and who has two young children TITHES to his evangelical church and despite the fact that he’s a working poor Puerto Rican who grew up in the projects, he votes straight-up Republican because…the persecution of that put-upon minority, Christians.

GS @ 192: an interesting thought exercise. But if there is no god, you followed all those rules for nothing. Or: I need something solid before I give up pork, as pork makes this life much more tolerable.

That thing from Pascal, I am not sure if that matters either. If god exists then wouldn’t we go to heaven or hell regardless of whether we believe? I think even the Catholic Church now says you don’t have to believe to go to heaven (but then again they believe in talking snakes and immaculate conception.

I think Worky believes in aliens as he certainly mentions probing a lot on here.

Grumpy OT, it’s a long story. I was only born in Cambridge. Grew up in Yorkshire in the late 60s, early 70s. My dad took my brother and I to a Leeds match in their heyday (Bremner, Giles, Jackie Charlton etc.) They were playing a team called Newcastle (I’d never heard of the place.) Anyway, my brother decided he was going to support Leeds so I took the other team. I never looked back! My first (and only) visit to SJP was in 72/73 in Supermac’s first season, against Liverpool. He scored a hat-trick and I ran onto the hallowed turf after his second to slap the man on the back. (I remember he had no front teeth!)That’s about it. I can’t call myself a Geordie, just a loyal, trophyless member of the Toon Army. HWTL!

Paul in Hollywood: I feel sorry for you. You had a choice and support Newcastle? We are cursed, I thought you had to be born into it or at least live in Newcastle for a long time.

I wish I could pick another team.

It would have been funny to see the reaction if Carr had really quit. I think Ed’s blog would have had kittens. He is selling t-shirts on there with the message “In Carr we Trust” and a picture of Carr’s ugly mug on it. I was thinking about getting one just to explain to people in Chicago who he is and why I have the t-shirt. I think they would think I am a bit mental if I did that though.

tunyc says: “the origin of life is rooted in the wonderful randomness and the inscrutible causality of the interactions of physical elements of the universe. I don’t understand why the need for more mystery than that.”

tunyc, I think there can come a moment when the realization of what you are talking about becomes – I guess the word is – transcendental. Others call it “Cosmic Consciousness” (I recommend the book of this title by Richard Maurice Bucke.)
Walt Whitman (a Brooklyn man) experienced it, St. Francis of Assisi experienced it, and numerous biblical figures and other saints/yogis experienced it. I believe it is a more enlightened state and is an aspect of evolution the human species are – very, very slowly – working towards.

“I forgot it was the summer solstice, And Britain’s true Religion, Druidism or Paganism.
Well i’m going to light a fire in the back garden, And sacrifice a couple of goats, Cos i doubt there will be any virgins around the Newcastle area, I’ll get me tin hat!”

Paul. I might understand mystery, or lack of it in a different way to yourself but a world with no mystery, a world where everything could be explained scientifically could indeed be hell.

I referred above to neurotheology, but do we want to live in a world where our deepest and most profound experiences are increasingly explained away and measured in terms of stuff like synapses, chemicals and receptors? Where the love for our wives and children, or to keep vaguely on topic, Newcastle United :-), our greatest moments of joy, our biggest lows like grieving and so on are only seen in terms of neurological and physiological processes.

No worries, worky. I’m trying not to shoot off my mouth on the intartubes and run away these days.

GS @ 205

” I think even the Catholic Church now says you don’t have to believe to go to heaven”

See, and here I am thinking that those kind of rules probably wouldn’t vary. What, God changed his mind?

GS @ 209

The reaction to the Carr thing I’m sure was very entertaining over there. What rationalizations did they cook up in case he walked?

Paul-you might well have something there. I will admit my own interpretation is tinted by cynicism. I tend to think man will destroy himself and/or his very-accommodating world before he reaches any sort of enlightenment. There are certainly things to life that I can’t explain and it enriches my experience. But a lot of those things, I insist, truly are simply products of chance.

worky-but science doesn’t purport to, or try to, explain everything. Then there would be no more need for inquiry, which would make science itself irrelevant. Again, really, it’s revelatory faith that tries to explain everything in one go. That’s why, to the limited extent that I understand them, I relate more to far-eastern non-deist religions.

When you write that you can relate to far-eastern non-deist religions, does that mean you can’t relate to Western Deism?

Many of the greatest, most brilliant people in history were Deists, and many of them were the scientists and thinkers who made Northern Europe, and by extension your side of the pond the powerhouse of the world in terms of science, philosophy and suchlike. This is because of it’s emphasis on finding God through the exploration of nature and thought, though of course, one doesn’t have to be a Christian to be a Deist with Aristotle and Cicero being two early examples.

Getting back to that bloody Dawkins, he is a scientist of note and surely knows this, yet he bangs on about the religious as if they’re all primitive headbangers who are still struggling with the idea of Dinosaurs. It was a deist (von Braun) who put another Deist (Neil Armstrong) on the Moon. Newton was a Deist, one of the fathers of Quantum theory, Pauli, was a Deist. The list goes on and on…

“Are things that bad we have resorted to talking about god? Who cares believe in kinnear!”

Well Llambias has gone since Kinnear walked in. If Pardew follows him I would say give the man a statue at least. Well, I would until Ashley brings in two who are just as bad to replace them, which wouldn’t surprise me at all.

I know this is stating the blooming obvious but Mike Ashley really should get in a media trainer for Uncle Joe this time. He isn’t so much a “loose cannon” as a base full of intercontinental ballistic missiles that have gone berserk when it comes to press conferences and interviews.

“Have to agree about the society of friends, true christians or not.
You forgot Thomas Paine, a self described deist, but often referred to as an athiest.”

Thomas Paine was a Quaker too, Chuck. I didn’t “forget” about him, I was mostly naming scientists and I missed nearly all of those out as well as there were simply too many.

One thing amongst others that I really admired about the Quakers of old was the way they did business. They were the original “ethical capitalists.”

Some of the greatest businesses in the world were founded by Quakers, practically all the great British confectioners like Rowntrees, Cadburys, Frys and Terry’s. There was also Barclays and Lloyds banks, Bryant and May, Huntley and Palmer and Carrs biscuits, Quaker Oats, Clark’s shoes, Waterford Crystal and Wedgwood pottery, Friends Provident insurance and many, many more huge companies. Of course, it was also a Quaker, Joseph Pease, who built the world’s first passenger railway too and even one of the founders of Sony was a Japanese Quaker. That’s only a part, there were many more huge companies founded by Quakers and yet they are only a very small group.

They were absolutely brilliant at business without losing any of their principles, and workers at Quaker companies were the most well treated in the world. It was also the Quakers who fought for the best part of two centuries for the abolition of slavery on both sides of the Atlantic, and won.

If all businesses were run on Quaker priniciples the world would be a much better place. People nowadays seem to think that you have to be an total bastard like Mike Ashley to succeed on business but I strongly disagree.

At this stage one would imagine someone like Ashley would have gained some understanding about what it takes to run a football club.
After all the man has been proven to be one of the astutest promoters of his other business, the sportsware field.
But with the recent media circus, obviously poorly handled, of which he has to bear a great degree of blame, being he orchestrated the whole episode.
I very much doubt Joe would have come on so heavy, without Ashley’s backing.
I just cant imagine what he intended, certainly it could’nt hsve been to expose the club to ridicule, which was the end result.
Something of this nature would have been forgivable had it happened shortly after his taking over the club.
But over five years later ?
It raises the question, has he not learned anything about how a football club operates.
Does he understand, that this has a negative effect, in regards to the fans and player morale, the sudden cancelling of transfer negotiations will be seen as a club in turmoil, with no one at the helm.
Which in turn could prove to be negative in recruiting new players.
The media will no doubt have more to say about NUFC, they are always looking for targets.
Instead of him hiring Joe to figure out whats wrong with the club (every dog in the street knows where the problem lies) perhaps he should look in the mirror and realise that he is the main problem.
He and his unwillingness to hire the best people he can find to fill those essential roles, not refugee’s from a gambling casino and useless managers like Pardew because the come cheap.
When other clubs are signing massive new shirt contracts, we are dealing with a loanshark outfit for peanuts.
Where’s the business acumen there ?
But until he takes a step back and brings in people with a proven record in football , it will be more of the same, i mean whats different now from the time he took over, nada!

“I still wish rent-a-quotes like Rob Lee and Mick Quinn wouldn’t be so quick to twist the knife into the club they supposedly love.”

It was probably Shearer got his two best mates, Rob Lee and Iain Dowie to help him stick the knife in when he was writing his Sun column about how “sickened” he was by Joe Kinnear.

Shearer isn’t the sharpest tool in the box though, he couldn’t help but give away the real motive for his rancour in his piece. It was because Kinnear claimed that the club wouldn’t have been relegated if he hadn’t of had his heart episode at West Brom. Shearer took that as a massive affront to his abilties as a manager. He seems to have forgotten that he left all that kind of thing to Iain Dowie anyway.

Well let’s see. KK gets all sentimental and wasn’t that so sued and walked away with a stack, shearer is still the hero but the bar story is 6 months old at least but the ronny gill needs some more papers to sell as it obviously hates the club. Shearer did what all on here want to do including me and managed our club but cattled it so be a kind record goalscorer and be quiet. I think we should start a don’t buy the chronicle campaign until they can print 1 positive story.
Latest rumour is pards n carr have fell out over last few signings and where he is playig them – sissoko n anita

The popular myth of Cadbury among the public was an old fashioned family business run by choclatiers with Quaker principles-a great British buisiness with it’s roots in Bournville and it’s heritage in Victorian England.
It was an Enid Blyton image that the media readilly portrayed and colored much of the general publics reaction when the company was finaly sold.
However Cadburt itself had done the most to perpetuate the impression that it had a unique ethical approach to business and corporate citizenship.
….by the 1990’s Cadbury was concocting complex schemes that shuffled money around subsiduaries.
These incuded an arrangenent code named chaffinch that knocked £17m.off its tax bil between 2006–08.

Yep just another myth, not to say the company was’nt run for some time in a more ethical manner, but certainly not in recent years.

One thing Joe does well is getting under peoples skin, as in the case of Shearer and yes it was’nt hard to miss
that he was rankled by Joes claim he would have prevented the drop ad e not ad an art attack.

“The popular myth of Cadbury among the public was an old fashioned family business run by choclatiers with Quaker principles-a great British buisiness with it’s roots in Bournville and it’s heritage in Victorian England.”

Chuck, it isn’t a “myth” at all.

Cadburys go back to the 1820s. It wasn’t until the 1940s when the first signs of change started when non Cadbury family members were accepted on to the board. Then, in 1969 they merged with Schweppes to become Cadburys / Schweppes, just another big business. It’s now owned by Kraft. The Cadburys of the 1990s had nothing to do with the Cadburys I was writing about.

The Cadburys I was referring to was the Cadburys from the 1820s to WW2 roughly.

It’s the same with most of the other companies I mentioned too, especially so with the major banks! :-)

Go and study the life and works of Joseph Rowntree, John Cadbury and also Elizabeth Fry of the Fry’s chocolate family, you will find it very enlightening indeed.

If you want the darker side of the Quakers, Richard Nixon was supposed to be a Quaker, though he disqualified himself with some of his actions like Cambodia, which was a war crime on an epic scale. Also, if you’ve read Melville’s “Moby Dick,” you will also know that some Quakers were actually involved in the whaling industry many years ago, which is also a travesty of Quaker values in my view.

“One thing Joe does well is getting under peoples skin, as in the case of Shearer and yes it was’nt hard to miss
that he was rankled by Joes claim he would have prevented the drop ad e not ad an art attack.”

“I have another issue with Kinnear. Over the last few days he has banged on about how Newcastle would never have gone down had he not had his health problems and stayed on in the job to the end of the 2008-09 season. The implication being that it was first Chris Hughton and then my fault for the club being relegated…”

More on that story later though… ;-)

Like Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Big Al isn’t the person some Toon fans think he is at all. I’ve heard that his ego has to be stored in an aircraft hangar.

“Don’t you call me Alan, You call me Mr Shearer”, Was uttered to a lad who was doing a gardening job for him.

He won a raffle for a set of golf clubs at Newcastle Golf Club, And everyone was expecting him to donate them to a charity, The greedy barsteward took them home with him, All the money he’s got!
The whole of the players bar roundly booed him.
One of his mates from childhood went round to see him, And spied the Golf clubs in his garage, And remarked on them being a good set.
Alan says you can have them, And his mate thought he was going to get a gift, Then Alan utter’s, “250 quid, And there yours”.

Look at the money the cnut took out of Newcastle in wages, When he was there.
Apparently he was a negative influence around the club, When he was there, And thought he owned the place.
The real reason Gullitt left Newcastle was because Shearer got Duncan Ferguson to kick ruud’s office door off the hinges, And threaten him, After he dropped them.
Even Craig Bellamy, More or less said he was selfish, In his Autobiography.

Shearer’s old man “The Sheet Metal Worker”, Was also meant to be a right trouble maker around the place, And no one liked him.

I don’t want to end up getting sued for this lol, And some of these things could be urban myths, And hearsay, But i have heard these stories about him from quite a few people.
Your heroes are never what you think they are!

Is he NOT wrong when he says that the club has become a laughingstock with the return of JFK (the ridiculous radio interview, the cause of ‘Llambesi’s’ departure, etc)? Weren’t we already embarrassed with the bulk of the decisions and the way the club has been run over the last five years?

Is it not the case that things have become so ridiculous at the club that even WE’RE all laughing now?

As for Al being a bit mean spirited – he’s a tough lad who came from a tough working class background. He fought for what came to him as a player. He never gave an INCH on the pitch, and he climbed all over, or ran rings round, the people whose job it was to stop him. And we loved him for it. And the rest of the country loved him when he did it for the national team.

As for him being selfish or a tightwad – do a search for ‘Shearer’ and ‘charity’.

Joe, he completely conned Newcastle United and it’s fans. Firstly there was his cock and bull story about turning down Manchester United to play for his home town club, which was absolute shite.

Secondly, there was that ridiculous pantomime where we had Iain Dowie managing the club under the Alan Shearer brand for £100,000 per game, plus he demanded a £1.8 million bonus on top if Dowie kept us up, though there was never much chance of that. Dowie is such an awful manager he probably couldn’t even keep Manchester United up, never mind Newcastle United at that time.

On a different note, I find it a little amusing that in films, books etc. We see whistle-blowers exposing dire hidden conspiracies and bringing about the downfall of the culprits in no uncertain terms.

Compare that with real life and there is a slight shrug of conspiritors shoulders and they gaily carry on with no major inconvenience.

Worky, Gosforth is a desirable area, The way he goes on you would think it was Elswick or Scotswood.
His dad must have been an Executive Sheet Metal Worker, That’s all i can say.
I thought he was a crap captain for us also, And the only time you ever seen him shout, Was when someone hadn’t put the ball in the box for him.
you never saw him geeing his team mates up, Or anything like that.
Alan Shearer will only ever do what is good for Alan Shearer.
People will always say, He stayed here when he could have went elsewhere to win Silverware, Aye he was getting well paid, And lets not forget the long spells out with injury.
Would other clubs have stood by him, You never can tell.
I think he liked the idea of being the big man, In a small pond, In the sense of how some of the media see us.

He reckons the reason he turned them down, Is they took too long to sign him.
So if they hadn’t of dithered over it, He would have become a Man Utd player, That’s what he more or less said, That and probably Newcastle offering him more money, Plain and simple.
I think Man Utd used to operate a wages ceiling at the time, So i wonder whether that’s why he didn’t sign for them.
Ashley wasn’t the first to do that!

I heard a few rumours the other day, Linking us with Gus Poyet, Now the Mirror are running with it.
Would anyone be averse to him coming here?, I’ve looked on a few other boards, And some don’t want him because he’s Dennis Wise’s mate.
I would be willing to give him a go, If this was true, I think he’s a damn sight better than that prat Pardew!

Actually, I said some time ago that I thought he’d be a decent manager for us when he left Brighton. Dunno if Ashley picked that up when he was reading your blog, seeking good advice, ideas and insider information from the wise and learned members of your superior blog, Worky.

More despicable stories about the talentless dastardly traitor Alan Shearer:

“During his playing days, Shearer had been involved with the children’s charity the NSPCC, taking part in the organisation’s Full Stop campaign in 1999. Since retiring from football Shearer has also done work for several charities both nationally and in the Newcastle area.”

“In his testimonial match, he raised £1.64m benefiting fourteen good causes including £400,000 for the NSPCC and £320,000 for completion of the “Alan Shearer Centre”, a respite care facility based in West Denton, Newcastle. In October 2006 he became an ambassador for the NSPCC, describing it as “the kick-off to my most important role yet”. He has also worked with the charity the Dream Foundation. In 2006, Shearer founded the Alan Shearer Academy Scholarship to aid the development of promising young players in the region.”

“In 2008, he raised over £300,000 for Sport Relief in a bike ride with fellow Match of the Day presenter Adrian Chiles, the idea for which emerged in an off the cuff question from cycling fan Chiles to Shearer as to how he kept fit since retirement.[118] Shearer also played and scored twice in Soccer Aid, a game involving celebrities and former players at Wembley Stadium in September 2008, to raise money for UNICEF.”

“On 26 July 2009, Shearer played and scored in the Sir Bobby Robson Trophy match, a charity match held at St James’ Park in tribute of Sir Bobby Robson and in aid of his cancer charity the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation.[120] It proved to be Sir Bobby’s last public appearance, as he died five days later. On 15 October 2009 Shearer became the new patron of Sir Bobby’s Foundation.”

Worky, That’s what it must have been what i remembered, It’s going back a bit now, I cannot really find anything on why he knocked them back, I can only think it was for more money.

Worky, Your aal posh lol.

Darthbroon, Smashy ‘n’ Nicey used to do a lot of work for charity.
Don’t get me wrong, He was one of the best strikers this country has produced, He’s just meant to be a right prick of a bloke, And a lot of people have said so

I don’t want to diss Shearer or praise him but one point that hasn’t been mooted is that charity work does help towards Tax relief does it not. I believe that is why a lot of wealthy philanthropists do it.

I’m not saying that that is Mr Shearers motives I don’t know the bloke, but it worth thinking about.

“I don’t want to diss Shearer or praise him but one point that hasn’t been mooted is that charity work does help towards Tax relief does it not. I believe that is why a lot of wealthy philanthropists do it.”

Actually donating money to charity is tax deductable, but his testemonial game aside, Shearer’s charity has been more about lending his mug to various causes so we’ll donate the money and he gets the image boost. All the big footballers and ex footballers do it like Gerrard, Lineker and so on…

All top players who get testimonial games give the proceeds to charity nowadays, they’d be crucufied if they didn’t on their wages, which isn’t to say it’s not a good thing of course!

The kind of thing I really admire is stuff like the work Craig Bellamy has been doing in Sierra Leone, which is completely different to the Smashie and Nicie style pro celebrity golf tournaments, cutting ribbons for new clinics, donating sweaty old football shirts and all that kind of stuff.

“How did he con the fans, worky? Why was it a ‘cock and bull’ story? That’s a genuine question. You obviously know something about his signing that I don’t.”

It might be unfair to say that loyalty had no role to play whatsoever, it may well have had something to do with it somewhere along the line, I don’t know. However, it certainly wasn’t quite like he told it.

He said elsewhere that he didn’t join Manchester United because Jack Walker wouldn’t let him.

Both Manchester and Newcastle United only bid £12 million for Shearer after an agreement between Martin Edwards and Fat Freddy. Shearer agreed terms with Manchester, bought a house there told them that he was joining them rather than Newcastle and so on.

Then however, Newcastle United bid over £15 million for him, Shearer had long conversations with Jack Walker and Freddy Shepherd and after Shearer told Manchester United he’d be joining them, they never heard any more from him after that. Hence, he never actually “turned them down,” he simply ignored them after Newcastle made a better offer. Manchester United weren’t too bothered anyway as they got Cantona for a fraction of what Newcastle paid for Shearer.

The Geordie Martin Edwards said they were sorry about missing out on wasn’t Shearer, it was Gazza when he went to Spurs, but that’s another story…

Getting back to Shearer, it was Fat Freddy and Jack Walker who really swung that one. It was Shepherd’s work in securing Shearer’s signature that convinced John Hall that he could put his feet up, retire and let the Byker Beelzebub take over.

Worky
In regard to Cadbury being run on an ethical basis you suggested any time in the last fifty years or more, it was in fact a myth perpetuated by the company.
I thought i had made that clear in the last sentance in regards to this issue.

And again i see i hit both a raw nerve from certain fans in regards to Shearer, and surprisingly a certain amount
of dislike for the man from others.
Personally i found him a bit dour and perhaps a bit of a bully, though i could be wrong.

Darthbroon, There’s other stories about him, But i’m not going there, Because they are from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Like i said in my original post, The stories could be hearsay or urban myths.
Personally i have heard a lot of people say he is a right tight wad, And a rather unpleasant individual.
He might be a thoroughly decent bloke, On the other hand, But we are just throwing it out there for a debate.
Darth, You seem to be offended by this for some reason, It’s just being put out there as a topic of conversation.

On the subject of Gus Poyet, I actually find the person tipped to replace him at Brighton, Oscar Garcia, to be more interesting as Poyet himself.

Being a huge fan of Cruyff’s Barcelona dream team, the name rang a bell, though Oscar Garcia isn’t the most uncommon Spanish name. It was who I was thinking of though, Oscar Garcia Junyent.

He was Cruyff’s first appointment as Catalonia manager, first as under 18s coach, then as Cruyff’s assistant. Then he rejoined ex teammate, Pep Guardiola, to be Barcelona’s academy coach, then he was headhunded by Jordi Cruyff to manage Maccabi Tel Aviv, where he won them their first league title in ten years at his first attempt.

He might be a very young, inexperienced manager, but that is one hell of an apprenticeship so far. Tiki-Taka-Toon?

Joe Kinnear is a PR disaster. You have to question the brains of a guy who trashes Alan Shearer as a way to make himself look better. That will endear him to NUFC fans :) Who is he going to go after next Bobby Robson?

I actually think Shearer did a terrible job but he is a NUFC icon and you don’t trash him in your first week on the job.

I still hope Kinnear succeeds though because he is saying he is overseeing a change in tactics.

worky – This tit for tat name calling and rep trashing is only going to end up putting people off wanting to come to the club. Yes, Kinnear’s a complete PR disaster in the making, but the club is getting it from all sides. If you were a player looking to make a move, would you consider coming to a team that looks like it’s going to implode.

Perhaps if the Kinnear news had been managed better, with carefully controlled statements coming from the club, it wouldn’t have looked quite as bad as having the man himself shouting from the roof tops. Oh well, the season ticket money’s already out, so I have a season to decide whether or not I want to continue taking the bairns (and myself).

What has Joe Kinnear done exactly? Has he renamed Newcastle United’s stadium the Sports Direct Arena? Has he associated the club’s name with the UK’s biggest loanshark? Has he led us to relegation yet?

No, he has come in as director of football and given a couple of ill advised interviews. Even if he hadn’t, he still would have been pilloried anyway as the media are a pack of wolves with a grudge against him (and that includes Alan Shearer the Sun columnist). The only thing that’s happened since Kinnear arrived is that Derek Llambias has left the club and if Kinnear had anything to do with that, as I’ve written before, he should get a bloody statue for that alone!

Why do Newcastle United fans let themselves be manipulated by this dishonest media bullshit every time?

“Not having a knock at Kinnear here, but a quote from him in an interview in the Chron:

“A lot of the fans up there have that attitude. They want to see their team do as well as possible.”

This leads me to wonder how many teams have fans that couldn’t be bothered if their team was rubbish?”

Pete, I don’t think he was saying that they don’t. If you put that quote in it’s full context:

“They are like me up there – they appreciate hard work. I am from a council estate and I have been taught the values of hard work.

“A lot of the fans up there have that attitude. They want to see their team do as well as possible.

“When things are not going right, they stamp their feet – and so they should.

“It is part of the culture up there and you have to take the criticism when you do not do well.”

It’s just a standard cliche for football managers in areas that are seen as being predominantly “working class,” ie not Chelsea. Keegan said much the same things about his dad being being a working class coalminer who was born in the North East and we Geordies having pride in our football team blah blah… Same with Shearer as well with his sheet metal worker’s son routine.

I actually found Keegan’s more patronising when he suggested that only southern people went to the theatre, but that this was our theatre as if we’re too thick to understand all that poncy southern culture stuff. I’m a Geordie and I’ve been to both SJP and the theatre many times.

worky @ 222: that was a slip, and I knew it was idiotic to use the term “deism” as soon as I submitted the comment. Hypocritical of me too, after tsk-tsking over the specifics of skepticism. I should have written theism-I meant that I find religions without gods more instinctively believeable (though I don’t believe in those religions either). To be honest, however, I’m not big on deism either though yes, many great thinkers subscribed to it. I think a lot of 17th century deists, if they lived today, would be avowed atheists.

I thought Poyet had already parted ways with Brighton, the May thing was a suspension (whatever that was meant to mean).

He appeared on the news this morning and wasn’t talking like a person with a new job already lined up, so I reckon the rumour was just rubbish paper speculation. I have the impression that Pardew (sorry Worky) is going nowhere, at least not in the short term.

Any bets on the first player to leave when the window opens, my bet would be on Cabaye.

“Some might say he managed an unfashionable team on a shoestring in the championship who punched above their weight.”

They’re hardly “unfashionable.” There’s been a large upsurge of interest and financial backing (including a new stadium) in recent years and one of the world’s most famous DJs is a Brighton Director. They’re a very “trendy” club.

They haven’t even punched above their weight that much either, only slightly so last season. As I mentioned above, they have some good backing for a Championship side.

Aye, sorry, I’m not being argumentative. If anything, what I’ve written above kind of strengthens your main point if anything. As for that, I can see what your saying about experience and what they’ve achieved in the past. On the other hand I certainly wouldn’t say that in all cases.

As I mentioned above, I would be far more excited if the replacement they allegedly have lined up to replace Poyet (Oscar Garcia) came to Newcastle instead. This is even though his only only job as a full manager has been at Maccabi Tel Aviv for one year.

Worky, I meant he was sacked by Spurs. Funny how often Ashley looks to Leeds, Spurs and West Ham as feeders for NUFC jobs. Even Carver has a link to Leeds (although I know he was NUFC before that).

I didn’t know Brighton were fashionable. All I really knew was our cup defeats and Brian Clough was once there. That was really my point, that he was managing a club that had done f@ck all and he had managed to keep them at that level.

If they have top resources for a Championship club then that must be why he was sacked, for underachievement. I had thought there might have been something else since he was suspended.

He’s another media darling though isn’t he? Just like Dowie, it doesn’t matter what their record, they appear on the football shows.

“If they have top resources for a Championship club then that must be why he was sacked, for underachievement. I had thought there might have been something else since he was suspended.”

Not “top” resources but good nonetheless, GS. They should be upper mid table or fighting for a playoff place if they have a good season, which is exactly what they did in Poyet’s two years there, upper mid table one season and a place in the playoffs the next.

I don’t think this had anything to do with Poyet whatsover, but did you hear about the Brighton employee dropping his log then smearing it all over the toilets of Crystal Palace’s dressing room when they played one of their playoff games?

The only reason Iain Dowie’s on alot of football shows is because he has nothing better to do.

GS, if someone said it would be great to have Gus Poyet as manager and you disagreed, then they said “well would you rather keep Alan Pardew?” as if that were the only alternative, then would be a classic “False Dichotomy”, “False Dilemma” or “Either/Or” fallacy, which are all different terms for the same thing.

Sooooo, our opinion of Shearer should be based on rumors. Ok. He’s a crap pundit and a crap manager thus far but I can’t see how NUFC supporters have such venom for him. To be honest, this is the one area where I sometimes feel like the line about NUFC supporters being impossible to please has some traction.

worky-I’ve asked it before: what difference does it make if Poyet is friends with Wise? Should that be a staple of interviews for prospective NUFC managers: “What do you think of Dennis Wise? Oh, what? He’s a friend of yours? NEXT!” Or let me turn it this way. You seem to have a lot of patience for Kinnear. What’s the nature of his relationship with Wise (I imagine a lot of folks in pro football know him) and how might that affect an NUFC supporter’s opinion of him? Or does it not matter? I’d be THRILLED with Gus Poyet as manager right now. Thrilled.

Shearer did not trash Kinnear. He said that due to Kinnear’s appointment, NUFC is being laughed at and that makes him sick. The former part of his statement is an absolute verifiable truth. The second part is his opinion. After Kinnear stated how much smarter he is than you and me, I’m kinda glad to see someone with a mic in front of him take him to task over any of his bullshit.

His defensive, inaccurate, insensitive ranting to anyone with a microphone is damaging the club’s image. I also wonder what it’s making other club’s executives think of us. I haven’t stopped considering that just because Dekka’s gone.

Again, to turn it a bit:

What has Alan Shearer done exactly? Not been friendly, interesting, articulate or generous (as if any of us know the truth of that) enough in the opinion of supporters of a club for whom played a decade and scored lots of goals-you know, what he was paid to do?

I’d have Poyet as manager-but that’s taking into account the relative attractiveness of the position just now. That’s also why I’d have had Martinez though he has no great pedigree. Both seem to know something about tactics, putting them ahead of AP. Under Ashley I think improving on AP to some degree is probably the best we can expect.

Removing the false dilemma, I’ve suggested Bielsa-currently at a smaller club in a less competitive league. I know: yeah, right…

tunyc: I don’t think it is even necessary to defend Shearer’s record. All you have to know is how he is held in extremely high esteem with NUFC supporters and you are picking the wrong fight if you criticise him.

Whether there is a conspiracy of ex-players led by Shearer to disparage Kinnear doesn’t matter. You are on a hiding to nothing if you critcise Shearer in Newcastle.

Maybe Kinnear was looking for a fight again? Did he come off badly after “c*ntgate”? The journos were surely after him then but I think some of the fans were amused and thought the journos had it coming.

Maybe that’s what he was trying to do, who knows. The result is that it has backfired and is certainly making his job harder. If he has to think about explaining his words that is less time that he is doing his real job – forcing Pardew out :)

“worky-I’ve asked it before: what difference does it make if Poyet is friends with Wise? Should that be a staple of interviews for prospective NUFC managers: “What do you think of Dennis Wise? Oh, what? He’s a friend of yours? NEXT!” Or let me turn it this way. You seem to have a lot of patience for Kinnear. What’s the nature of his relationship with Wise (I imagine a lot of folks in pro football know him) and how might that affect an NUFC supporter’s opinion of him? Or does it not matter? I’d be THRILLED with Gus Poyet as manager right now. Thrilled.”

None. I’m afraid I don’t have a clue what you’re trying to say there as I certainly never wrote anything like that. I simply pointed out that it would be highly doubtful that Dennis Wise would give Poyet a glowing report on his time at Newcastle. Do you have a problem with that?

“Shearer did not trash Kinnear.”

Oh yes he did, tunyc. You obviously either didn’t read his whole Sun article, or you are blinded by partisanship there.

Just thought I’d throw this into the Shearer-Kinnear thing. While in Darkest Shropshire a while ago I was introduced to two Nufc supporters (on separate occasions) When I asked why they had chosen Newcastle to support both said Alan Shearer made me think how many more would give that as a reason.Doubt very much if Kinnear will attract many unless he can attract players of Shearers calibre.

I’m going to make a prediction, which has as much basis in fact as any of the reported “nearly signed” chat that crop up in the press. At the end of the summer, we’ll have signed no new players, but we will have lost Ben Arfa, Harper, Moyo and Simpson (yes I know the last three have already gone).

worky, I get the feeling that Ashley will use the uncertainty of this period to his advantage in not bringing in the players. He’ll play the “Joe needs time to identify the right people in the right positions” card.

Just read where wor Joe has lined up the deadwood and will be calling each a cab as soon as he finds a new address for them.
No worries apart from Simpson (now out of contract) all ten mentioned should IMO go, so let’s give Joe a chance here.
Look I realise he tends to shoot frm the hip and sez things that I’m sure he regrets.
But hell,he was instrumental in getting rid of the useless footballing idiot Llambias and is working on Pardew I’m sure.
For that alone he should be praised.
Though I doubt if he’s quite up to speed as far as who to bring in and probably regrets putting the kaybosh on Douglas, I’m sure Carr can fill him in as to who we are considering.
If he doesn’t fancy anyone then I’m sure Carr knows enough about who’ out there to give him alternatives, just don’t want Bent.
But on the other hand, this is no way to run a club, no doubt we will have a new manager in place sometime soon and to make these upcoming changes without consulting the man who will hopefully be a decent choice and remain with the club for the foreseeable future, is not the way to do things.
As though Joe apparently got a three year deal I doubt if he’s gonna last that long.
Have to conclude with is this any way to run a railroad, chaos and infighting, a laughing stock ?
Ashle has obviously learned very little in five plus years, time for him to realise he just can’t do the job on his own and needs professional help, we need a good GM and a good manager.
With those two in place, we can make Joe head of the PR department, face it he knows how to get media attention, I’m kidding of course!

Really? That feels a bit insulting, like you’re calling me a star-struck child. I haven’t gone on about him any more than you go on about Cruyff and I don’t feel the need to call you on it because hey, it’s reasonable. We’re all football fans and Cruyff was indeed a phenomenon. Can you really not fathom why people-especially NUFC supporters-like Shearer? Do you think it’s solely because of PR and propaganda?

Regarding Wise: I apologize as I overreacted but I can’t help but notice you bring him up virtually every time Poyet is mentioned. I just don’t see how it’s relevant.

“Grumpy, I could be writing for Metro alot more in future, so tell Mike that the sage advice might be on there rather than on here from now on”.

Me! do you think I’m a Mike insider, if only!!

Did Amalfitano ever get any sort of a run out, probably go off to Barca now and take over from Messi. Somebody asked the question if we got the wrong Amalfitano. Possibly as there is a 28 year old one playing for one of the Spanish teams. Might even be some younger ones. There is also a Nacho playing for Barca or RM. And could Cisko have been confused with Isco.

I have the same suspicion. Can’t help but note every current story about NUFC right now is about Kinnear or some related matter. There’s no more talk of objectionable sponsors, failed seasons or transfer plans (or lack thereof). I agree with others that this whole thing is probably meant to distract from other problems at the club as much as anything.

“I have the same suspicion. Can’t help but note every current story about NUFC right now is about Kinnear or some related matter. There’s no more talk of objectionable sponsors, failed seasons or transfer plans (or lack thereof). I agree with others that this whole thing is probably meant to distract from other problems at the club as much as anything.”

That’s more or less an exact synopsis of my latest blog on metro.co.uk, tunyc. How did you know?!!! It wasn’t published when you wrote that comment.

Why do I even read the stories that say “NUFC ready to offer X pounds for Y player”? Inevitably, the next day the Chronicle comes out and says that NUFC are not willing to enter a bidding war, and the other club reports no offer has been received from NUFC.

If I didn’t know better, I would think the original story was made up :)

And how are Liverpool doing all of this business and we are doing none?

Worky @324: You are playing down the furor over the Kinnear appointment and remarks as a storm in a teacup. But, nevertheless there is quite a storm with blogs all a twitter, and twitter all a titter, ex-players falling over themselves to have a go and Newspaper hacks seeking their revenge.

Are you sure the media circus is part of an Ashley grand scheme to take away scrutiny of Wonga, Pardew and an abysmal season?

I don’t know what to believe anymore and trying to rationalize Ashley’s motives will get me nowhere, I think.

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