Readers' comments

I had not read the Economist is some time, actually, since Michael Kinsley left. If the above is any indication of what passes for journalism in the Economist these days, apparently I have not missed anything. You're not even good for the crossword puzzle any more.

You call a makeshift collection of quotes you unload to this discussion board "knowledge and evidence" - you are wrong. It's neither. It is just instrument of primitive propaganda.
.
There are plenty of texts one can pluck for citations to seemingly "prove" any point of view. Taken out of context, out of their time and circumstance, they prove nothing.
.
You also naively presume that a famous name itself guarantees the persuasiveness of the opinion. It doesn't: opinions are like ass holes - everybody has one. Mr Peled Jr wrote this or that... so what? Why his point of view is more worthy than anyone's? Because he's someone's son? LOL!
.
Surely you're not capable of understanding what I tell you, and won't even try to share YOUR OWN thoughts on the topic at hand (change in Israeli cabinet). You obviously have none - all your voluminous comments till now were just Israel bashing antisemitic drivel.
.
That's why I've told you before and repeat now: shout from your dirt mine solo. You don't deserve nothing else.

MODERATORS: Please don’t remove reluctant polluter’s effluent. It’s best that we shine a very bright light on the people tasked with putting forward the case that Israel is “A light unto nations.”

Polluter:
There you go, let that hate flow freely so the people can see what it means to be an Israel supporter. I knew you had it in you to give. Your invective is bereft of reason, reeks of defeat, and is precisely what one would expect from a feckless, lobotomite who has convinced herself bald assertion spawns fact.

I think this captures the essence of your message:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

You object to people equipped with knowledge with evidence to back up their viewpoint. If you can't win the argument using truth, you, like Ambassador Oren and 60 Minutes, seek to suppress and censor it.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization (sic), or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

From the upcoming book, "The General's Son", by Miko Peled (the son of a key architect of the pre-emptive strike that marked the start of the 1967 Land Grab, General Mati Peled). Miko is a Jew raised in Israel, now lives in San Diego, who lost a child to the endless cycle of violence. Mati Peled opposed continuing the occupation – search for his speeches on YouTube. Find more on Miko’s blog, http://mikopeled.wordpress.com/category/the-generals-son-by-miko-peled/

"The myth of Israel being a democracy is still being perpetuated even in light of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. While Jewish Israelis over there and AIPAC over here like to think they are the only rightful citizens of their land and will argue that they live in a democracy, this is far from being true. Israel has been in control of the West Bank for over four decades and had built and invested heavily in the West Bank. But Palestinians who make up the vast majority of the population in the West Bank are excluded from any of it. In other words, 100% of the construction in the West Bank was done to bring Jews into the WB and exclude the close to 3 million Palestinians whose land this belongs to in the first place. 3 million Palestinians are left out, disenfranchised even as they see their lands taken, their homes destroyed and roads, malls, schools and gated communities being built for Jews only with no access to them or their families. Some democracy."

Canary
I am not interested in a "debate" with the likes of yourself.
Your foul mouthed personal attacks, rabid hatred, support for terror and pseudo knowledge represent much of the good world that has been poisoned by those like you and who think like you.
You have my blessing to continue frothing away.

“What I saw there (Hebron) would shock even those who think they know all there is to know about Israel and its conflict with the Palestinians. The centre of a city of 175,000 people has been utterly emptied, its streets deserted, its shops vacant, thanks to a policy the Israeli army calls "sterilisation" - ensuring the area is clear and safe for Hebron's 800 Jewish settlers.

In what was once a throbbing market district, a place teeming with life, successive restrictions have been placed on Hebron's Palestinian population. A map shows purple roads where no Palestinian cars are permitted, yellow roads where no Palestinian shops are allowed to open and red roads where no Palestinians are even allowed to walk.

I watched an old man, a bag of cement on his shoulder, ascend a steep bypass staircase because his feet were forbidden from going any further along the road. Those unlucky enough to live on a red road have had their front doors sealed: they have to leave their own houses by a back door and climb out via a ladder.

All this has made life so impossible that an estimated 42 per cent of the families who once lived in this central part of town have now moved out.

What they have left behind is eerie. Israelis can walk freely down streets that are barred to Palestinians, surveying the shuttered shops that have been covered with some of the most vile graffiti I have ever seen. The familiar "Death to the Arabs" is there, but so is "You have Arabs, you have mice," the words covered up, but still legible. Perhaps most shocking are the Stars of David, daubed on Arab shopfronts and doors. To see that cherished symbol used to spit in the eye of a population hounded out of their homes is chilling.

All right, some will say, Hebron is an extreme case. Not according to my guide, Yehuda Shaul, a kippah-wearing army reservist who served two long tours in Hebron and who now works with the Breaking the Silence movement which, via the new Yachad organisation, has shown several Anglo-Jewish Zionist youth leaders and synagogue activists around the city. Shaul believes that Hebron simply reveals the reality of the occupation in an intense, distilled form.”

TE: “...land that is supposed to form the basis of Palestine.”
.
Supposed by who? For that, both sides should suppose the same, and only negotiations with no pre-supposed rigid conditions can lead to any agreement.
.
TE: “Mr Netanyahu has less need to pander to the likes of Mr Lieberman.”
.
True. And even less to pander to ridiculous Arab claims.
.
TE: “It is ... probable, that Mr Netanyahu will choose to go on ignoring Palestinian pleas and the ideas of Mr Mofaz”.
.
I bet it won't be necessary to ignore Mr Mofaz's ideas. Mr Mofaz has long ago proved his ability to change his ideas in changed circumstances. It's a 'must have' for an armed forces' chief of staff. And his circumstances changed dramatically, no doubt about that.

Excerpt below is from “The war's seventh day”, written by Michael Ben-Yair, Attorney General of Israel from 1993-96. Published in the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, March 3, 2002 (emphasis added to call out the word "apartheid", which appears in the original text as quoted.)

“We enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands, transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in theft and finding justification for all these activities. Passionately desiring to keep the occupied territories, we developed two judicial systems: one - progressive, liberal - in Israel; and the other - cruel, injurious - in the occupied territories. In effect, we established an ***apartheid*** regime in the occupied territories immediately following their capture. That oppressive regime exists to this day."

“Now the West Bank is riddled with towns and malls and highways built on Palestinian land for Jews only and Israeli cabinet members openly discuss population transfers, or rather transfer of its non-Jewish population. The level of oppression and the intensity of the violence against Palestinians has reached new heights… Discussing the two-state solution now under these conditions shows an acute inability to accept reality… There is an illusion that a liberal, forward thinking government can rise in Israel and then everything will be just as liberal Zionists wish it to be. They will pick up where Rabin and Arafat left off and we will have the pie in sky Jewish democracy liberal Jews want so much to see in Israel. This illusion is shared by American Jews, liberal Zionists in Israel and around the world and in the West where guilt of two millennia of persecuting Jews still haunts the conscience of many. If only there were better leaders and if only this and if only that… But alas, reality continues to slap everyone in the face: Zionism and peace are incompatible. I will say it again, Zionism and peace are incompatible.”

You ran away from our discussion below when confronted with your own bigotry.

The days of the ghetto Jew are far from over. The difference is the Jews are running the ghettos, as in the case of Gaza and Hebron, for example. If nothing else, this wildly hypocritical, about-face defiles the memory of Holocaust victims and makes the ‘Never again’ motto ring hollow.

Are you capable of putting yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian and considering their position?

Imagine a gang of armed thugs, like Irgun, suddenly showed up at the only home you have ever known and broke down your door, greeting you and your family with a pronouncement like: “Hello, our god and the UN sent us and they said all that has been yours is now ours and you can clear out or join a stack of corpses like we left at Deir Yassin.”

Perhaps you will listen to a Jew:

“Israelis overestimate the importance of propaganda and public relations. The Israeli press keeps saying: Our propaganda is badly handled, we have a poor image, and so forth. I am familiar with the subject, since the World Zionist Organization has spent millions of dollars on propaganda. Well, I regret that, because it is worth very little. The decisive factor to influence world opinion is the character of Israel’s policies, and if those policies are criticized by the majority of the states, the best propaganda is helpless. The Israelis have inherited this misjudgment and this infatuation for slogans from the Americans. In the United States, everything is sold by what they call Madison Avenue methods, from the street where their biggest advertising firms are based. This technique may be terrific for launching a brand of soap or toothpaste, or even a new newspaper, but not when it comes to disseminating a political idea by distorting it.” (excerpt from ‘The Jewish Paradox’, by Nahum Goldmann published in 1976. Goldmann was a contemporary of ben-Gurion and founder of the World Jewish Congress, serving as its president from 1951 to 1977.)

"What the Israeli negotiators have to learn is that no one is ever altogether right. Absolute situations do not exist, because the absolute is impossible to reach. When the Israelis negotiate they are so sure of their own rights that they overlook those of the Arabs, thereby weakening their own positions in the eyes of the world."

(excerpt from ‘The Jewish Paradox’, by Nahum Goldmann published in 1976. Goldmann was a contemporary of ben-Gurion and founder of the World Jewish Congress, serving as its president from 1951 to 1977.)

In 1976 many Israelis would have agreed with him and it is irrefutable that since 1967, a peace agreement has become much harder to achieve. By 2012 Israeli public opinion has considerably hardened towards the Palestinians, shaped by decades of terrorist attacks, its' proxies financed by Syria and Iran. From the Israeli perspective, the experience of the past 4 decades teaches them that the wall works, iron dome works, surgical strikes against terrorist cells work and the proof of that is a country that has progressed at an astonishing rate in the face of external problems that would have crushed any other nation; what didn't work was offering Yasser Arafat a no brainer deal at Camp David that he subsequently turned his back on, withdrawing unconditionally from Gaza - a futile gesture that opened the way for years of rocket attacks on Israeli towns and cities, and maintaining an open border policy that had provided a valuable source of employment to Palestinians but allowed in suicide bombers. Of course all genuine negotiation involves compromise and pain on both sides, but for negotiation to succeed you need to see a building of trust and confidence. That includes having trust in an opposite number with the authority to represent and deliver for their side. The Palestinians know who they are negotiating with, but who leads them? Who genuinely speaks for them? And more importantly who is it they will listen to and trust?
The one issue, and for the Israelis the ONLY issue that really matters, is that of its' security. This is far far more important than land - land is simply seen by most Israelis as a buffer to guarantee its' security in the absence of any peace deal which is why, ultimately it will trade land for peace - despite the rhetoric on both sides. The Palestinians on the other hand have either not recognised or never accepted,
Israeli paranoia about security (you don't have to go far back in Jewish history to understand where this comes from). When the Palestinians understand that when Israel get what it wants then the Palestinians get what they want, then the door opens to a genuine and lasting peace deal.
Regarding your question "When can we expect Israel to acknowledge Palestine's right to exist?" Israel accepts totally the idea of a two state solution - a home for Palestinians alongside the Jewish state is not an issue. The question should be "Do the Palestinians genuinely want a two state solution?" Many increasingly think not. In which case what you see will remain what you get.

Regarding 'Israel's security', if you really support a two-state solution, you will by necessity have to accept the establishment of some border. Regardless of where this line is drawn, you can keep saying 'that location isn't secure enough'. Where does it end? If security IS more important than land, why does Israel continue grabbing more and more land? Hardly a week passes without an announcement of approval for a few thousand more homes outside Israel proper, SOLELY FOR THE ENJOYMENT OF JEWS, (dripping_sarcasm) without this in any way demonstrating the racist nature of Israeli policy (/dripping_sarcasm), or an announcement that the Israeli High Court has been overruled by Bibi, retroactively ‘legalizing’ so-called ‘outposts’. You cannot tell me the settlement in Hebron, smack in the middle of the WB, is about Israeli security. Please, acknowledge reality.

The next whopper you advance is "Israel accepts totally the idea of a two state solution - a home for Palestinians alongside the Jewish state is not an issue."

Likud policy has ALWAYS maintained the existence of an 'Arab' state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean is absolutely unacceptable.

Watch and listen to MK Danny Danon publicly reveal Likud’s true position -- this guy is speaker in the Knesset and World Likud leader, (Likud being Netanyahu's party): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPVTC9frqMA

Palestinians, including Arafat, HAVE accepted Israel's right to exist. They are wise to hold off on recognizing Israel as ‘the Jewish State’ because this requirement would be tantamount to waiving Palestinians’ right of return, guaranteed under international law. They have precious little leverage in negotiations as it is without giving away the farm before negotiations commence, and they cannot commence legal action in international court unless they are a nation. This is obviously why Israel has maintained the occupation for so long, intentionally frustrating the so-called ‘peace process’ at every step. Do all Israelis think people are just stupid?

Please, let's not forget our argument is not of the 'chicken and egg' variety. The whole mess started when a Zionist chicken started the undeniable ethnic cleansing of Palestine, at least as far back as the 1920's. For you to suggest that the Palestinians are at fault for this decision on the part of Zionists, and the Palestinians' reaction when they finally realized what Israel's forbears intended, demonstrates a degree of willful blindness that defies description.

Trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone who insults me by telling transparent lies is utterly pointless. At some point, Israel will be held to account for the injustice of its policies. If you take up residence in a hornet’s nest, and do everything you possibly can to stir up the hornets, you should not be surprised if you get stung occasionally.

As with the American Jewish Congress’s declaration of economic war on Germany in 1933, the people who bear the brunt of this inevitable backlash won’t necessarily be located at the same place as those directly responsible. In other words, I fear the diaspora may be the ones to pay a price for Israel’s avarice.

Israel withdrew from Gaza some time ago. Why will you not hold Hamas responsible for what happens within Gaza and for aggression against Israel. In fact, why are you on about Gaza at all when the world's largest ghetto is North Korea. Focus on real issues.

Canary
No modern ideology has faced so much adversity and yet succeeded so admirably as has Zionism in the Twentieth and Twenty First Centuries.
Whether it is the unceasing violence brought to bear, the hordes of Arabs and Jihadis with their all too familiar cry for blood, "Itbach el Yahud" (Slaughter the Jew) or the styled, eloquent hatred of the Western liberal intelligentsia:
Israel still stands strong, to your dismay and rage.
The Economist and BBC and those like them may succeed in striking a divide between some diaspora Jews and Israel, but many more are waking up and smelling the houmus, and making their way to a new life in Israel as a result of the changing climate in Britain, or elsewhere.
Many in the West understand that Israel is the Wests' Canary in the Coal Mine, if Israel goes, the West is next.
So Israel haters, you can thrash, froth and foam at the mouth, but the days of the obedient ghetto Jew are over.

“Goyim [derogatory term used to describe non-Jews] were born only to serve
us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the
People of Israel... Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow,
they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles
were created... they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why?
Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his
servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew”
- Ovadia Yosef, Spiritual leader of the Shas political party in the Israeli
parliament and former Chief Rabbi of Israelhttp://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=191782 [1]
What did Yosef mean? Read what Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer (former dean
of Harvard Kennedy School and political science professor at UChicago,
respectively) have to say and you will find out:http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby [2]

For all those Israel supporters who love to flail away with the anti-Semitism paint brush, I contribute the following to demonstrate the absurd hypocrisy of such allegations.
Hebron is a West Bank city, smack in the middle of territory that would have to form part of any Palestinian state Israel ALLOWS, yet it has a 'settlement', solely for the enjoyment of Jews. Consistent with Likud policy all along, denying the Palestinians ANY right to a sovereign state between the Jordan River and the Sea, this settlement is but ONE indication of how Israel frustrates the so-called peace process. (Watch and listen to MK Danny Danon advocate ethnic cleansing of Palestine -- this guy is speaker in the Knesset and World Likud leader, Netanyahu's party: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPVTC9frqMA)
The following excerpt demonstrates what many Israelis advocate, while in the next breath invoking the Holocaust to inspire sympathy for Jews. The piece, entitled This is Israel? Not the one I love, is written by Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland (a Jew), and published (surprisingly) at the virulently pro-Zionist Jewish Chronicle of London on November 7, 2011. The link: http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/columnists/57850/this-israel-not... . As an indication of credibility, the piece is referenced in a New York Times column by Roger Cohen (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/opinion/cohen-come-home-to-israel.html...)
What I saw there would shock even those who think they know all there is to know about Israel and its conflict with the Palestinians. The centre of a city of 175,000 people has been utterly emptied, its streets deserted, its shops vacant, thanks to a policy the Israeli army calls "sterilisation" - ensuring the area is clear and safe for Hebron's 800 Jewish settlers.
In what was once a throbbing market district, a place teeming with life, successive restrictions have been placed on Hebron's Palestinian population. A map shows purple roads where no Palestinian cars are permitted, yellow roads where no Palestinian shops are allowed to open and red roads where no Palestinians are even allowed to walk.
I watched an old man, a bag of cement on his shoulder, ascend a steep bypass staircase because his feet were forbidden from going any further along the road. Those unlucky enough to live on a red road have had their front doors sealed: they have to leave their own houses by a back door and climb out via a ladder.
All this has made life so impossible that an estimated 42 per cent of the families who once lived in this central part of town have now moved out.
What they have left behind is eerie. Israelis can walk freely down streets that are barred to Palestinians, surveying the shuttered shops that have been covered with some of the most vile graffiti I have ever seen. The familiar "Death to the Arabs" is there, but so is "You have Arabs, you have mice," the words covered up, but still legible. Perhaps most shocking are the Stars of David, daubed on Arab shopfronts and doors. To see that cherished symbol used to spit in the eye of a population hounded out of their homes is chilling.
All right, some will say, Hebron is an extreme case. Not according to my guide, Yehuda Shaul, a kippah-wearing army reservist who served two long tours in Hebron and who now works with the Breaking the Silence movement which, via the new Yachad organisation, has shown several Anglo-Jewish Zionist youth leaders and synagogue activists around the city. Shaul believes that Hebron simply reveals the reality of the occupation in an intense, distilled form.

The condescending tone of this leader is quite amusing - talking about "doing the right thing" as if this writer is gifted with some divine authority to tell others what is "the right thing"
Just as these pages have told Israel over the years to "do the right thing" by making concessions of handing back land to flimsy Arab dictators, withdraw from Lebanon, give more to the Palestinians for nothing in return, withdraw from Gaza and more and more - all for Israel's "own best interest".
How they predicted a new cataclysm if Israel wouldn't bend to the Palestinians unilateral move to a declaration of a state in the UN.
They preach appeasement to the Israeli electorate but demonize them for defending themselves when the resulting Arab aggression comes after the appeasement.
The liberal media wave a carrot at the Israelis but only give a very very big stick.
They then have the audacity to do it some more.
As a result the Israeli electorate has abandoned the Left whos tiny hardcore adopts the deligitimizing narratives of the Western Left in order to empower themselves - in turn perpetuating the circle of their decline.
You wont read it on anything written by Western liberal media - but be advised - Israelis view your preachings with a mixture of derision, amusement and scorn.

Great points about the condescending attitudes given towards Israel and Jews from citizens of a country that for hundreds of years occupied and colonized most of the world, and still seem to grieve that loss. Hypocricy has perhaps never been so painfully blatant.

It was A-OK for Israel to unilaterally declare statehood to the UN but it's not acceptable for the Palestinians to do the same?

This is entirely consistent with Israel's position on Iran's entitlement to the nuclear deterrent Israel already has, then we have prominent rabbis like Yosef and Lior who openly advocate killing goyim because we're just animals anyway, put here on earth to serve Jews. I'm am far more afraid of your religious whackos than I am of anybody Iran has in the bullpen.

You are a hypocrite AND a racist, by definition.

Lastly, why do you presume anyone CARES how Israelis view the truth? You do have an inflated view of your own importance, I'll grant you that. If anything, this article is a slow-pitch lob that casts the hysterical, trigger-happy Netanyahu in an undeservedly favorable light, yet you and your hasbara ilk attack it anyway. Tsk, Tsk.

Canary
Your personal attacks are revolting and reminiscint of the style of those that you defend.
Your ignorance is equaly breathtaking - Israel did not unilateraly declare independence. Rather - the UN offered a partition plan for the two state solution. Israel agreed, and the Pals refused. The independence of Israel was approved by a UN majority vote.
The palys refused again and again to the two state solution - as it defeats their aim which is the destruction of Israel.
Your friends always resort to violence in the end - so go ahead - we are ready and waiting.
The Economist and the likes of Goldstone aren't going to deter our right to self defense or right to self determination.

You clearly hold that Israel is entitled to rights the ‘Pals’, to use your bigoted vernacular, cannot enjoy. If Israel can have nuclear weapons, on what basis do you justify denying Iran the same right?

Play the victim and engage in semantic gymnastics to your heart's content. The core of your message comes through loud and clear.

Dear TE correspondent (and those few readers who are actually interested in facts and not Islamo-Fascist propaganda)

Some questions regarding your article:

1. Why is there no mention of the reason Gaza was "hammered"? Is it not relevant to note that the "hammering" came as a response to months of unprovoked rocket fire on Israeli civilians?

2. " he has since shown precious little appetite for putting that principle into practice" - really? He froze all settlements for 10 months to allow negotiations to start -this is more than any PM has done in the last 20 years.
Needless to say the Pals just wasted time and did nothing until the last month, and then requested *another* freeze.

3. "Mr Netanyahu will choose to go on ignoring Palestinian pleas.."
If the Pals had actually bothered to enter negotiations rather than "plea" (and shoot rockets while doing so) they might have obtained something. But as mentioned before, they are not even willing to talk to Israelis directly. Why should their pleas not be ignored?

And more generally - why does TE play along with the charade that the Pals are interested in peace? If that were true they could have had their own state on numerous occasions (PMs Barak and Olmert offered them as much on several occasions).

The sad truth is that the Pals want no such thing. Their real purpose is the elimination of Israel by flooding it with millions of refugees. Until they give up this objective and start negotiating in earnest, no one in Israel will take their "pleas" seriously.

"1. Why is there no mention of the reason Gaza was "hammered"? Is it not relevant to note that the "hammering" came as a response to months of unprovoked rocket fire on Israeli civilians?"

Gaza was hammered so Israel could show who's boss, to try to topple a popular government who dared to challenge its master, and to try to earn a few votes for Tzipi Livni and Ehud Barak in the Knesset elections. Had Israel been interested in protecting its population from rocket fire, all it had to do was to respect the 2008 truce, whose terms it completely ignored and actively sought to end.

"He froze all settlements for 10 months to allow negotiations to start -this is more than any PM has done in the last 20 years."

That only proves how little all Israeli PM have ever done to fulfill their obligations. Not building on occupied territory is not a "concession", but an mandatory International Law tenet and Israel's obligation as per the Route Map (which Israel has so far ignored, like so many of its international obligations).

As long as the world keeps turning a blind eye towards Israel's excesses and crimes, there will be no end to this conflict.

Israel cannot imagine that it will forever occupy Arab lands and deny Palestinians the right to self determination and independence. It is strange that in this day and age any form of authority, state of non state can use force and coercion to suppress a popular and just cause.

Israel will have to yield to the popular aspirations of its 350 million Arab neighbors. It is just a matter of time.

"Israel will have to yield to the popular aspirations of its 350 million Arab neighbors. It is just a matter of time."

Depends how long you're prepared to wait - 60 years so far, and Israel is stronger than ever. Keep waiting - see where it gets you. On the other hand you could just accept the reality that Israel is there to stay and start direct talks. Except that that would necessitate your accepting the right of Israel to exist in the first place - doh!

It is disappointing that Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu has also ignored the International Court of Justice ruling on the illegal 'separation barrier' which is 3 times the length of the Berlin Wall. West Bank settlements continue to grow jeopardizing the prospects of a viable and contiguous State of Palestine (though it was recognized last year by UNESCO and has been recognized by 130 nations too - see below).

Mr Netanyahu should accept US President's 1967 lines as he is aware of demography and the impatience of European Union member states concerning the construction of illegal colonial settlements (accessible by settler only roads) on the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

There are 150 UN Resolutions and it is imperative that they are implemented in full. Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve peace.

God bless

1. 130 nations recognise Palestine and that includes India, China, Russia, Brazil, Malaysia, Indonesia and more recently Iceland and Thailand.

2. UNESCO's vote in support of Palestine included France, Spain, Norway, Ireland, Greece, Spain and Belgium.

The Security Council, recalling its resolution 476 (1980); reaffirming again that the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible; deeply concerned over the enactment of a "basic law" in the Israeli Knesset proclaiming a change in the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, with its implications for peace and security; noting that Israel has not complied with resolution 476 (1980); reaffirming its determination to examine practical ways and means, in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, to secure the full implementation of its resolution 476 (1980), in the event of non-compliance by Israel ; Censures in the strongest terms the enactment by Israel of the "basic law" on Jerusalem and the refusal to comply with relevant Security Council resolutions;

That was not a "ruling." It was an advisory opinion, as the heading of the document indicates, that does not have the force of law. In any case, it was impugned when Egyptian judge (as he was at the time) Nabil el-Araby publicly prejudiced his opinion in advance of the hearing.

The UN itself has no authority to legislate or adjudicate. It is about politics not law.

The UN does not recognize a Palestinian state not can it. It did not give Israel statehood it merely admitted it to membership. Israel created the state of Israel by exercising effective sovereignty over territory. Palestinians are without the ability to do this. The Palestinian bid for membership at the UN is getting no traction as Israel becomes less isolated. Israel has trade and investment agreements with many European states who need job creation.

The Palestinians have no right to statehood. They have been given an opportunity to negotiate for it but recently walked away from negotiations.

the Palestinains would be stupit to fall for that one, set up you own state on 60% of your land we took from you and we'll talk about the rest later. they will have a long wait. better going for a one state solution than to get a half state one

It's not Palestinian land. It's disputed land. There is no mention of Palestinians in UN Sec Council Resolution 242, the document from which all negotiations proceed. In fact, there are no Palestinians until they are referenced in Sec Council documents in the late 1970's, with no evidence adduced for their creation or for their entitlement to territory. Pure politics.

They are a political fact nevertheless, to give Yasser Arafat his odious due, and as such have been given an opportunity to negotiate for what they have no legal right to. They recently walked away from negotiations.

You must be kidding. Israel or the zionist ideology has never wanted any peace or coexistence with anyone. The goal is very simple: create the greater zionist state and use America to wage war on the entire arab world.
This will end when America can no longer afford to support this ideology and Americans wake up to the massive cost this relationship has meant to them.

I don't see how a two state solution is possible. Israel's legalization (under Israeli law) of illegal settlements (under international law) means the Islands of Jews interspersed throughout the West Bank are immovable, unless Israel, or some international force, is willing to wage war with the settler whackos that are armed to the teeth.

Then there are the so-called 'outposts', whimsically established by settlers who decided where to build, without regard for Palestinian property rights.

Israel has painted itself into a corner. In my opinion, the options are:

1.) Establishment of a single, secular democracy, where one person equals one vote. Clearly, 'The Jewish State' will cease to be Jewish as Palestinians will have proportionate representation.
2.) Undeniable apartheid, where Jews continue to wield the big stick and run roughshod over indigenous Palestinians.
3.) Genocide, advocated by some of Israel's top rabbis and the extreme right. How a state established based on a moral imperative arising from the Holocaust can even entertain this absurd hypocrisy is beyond me.

The blatant ethnic cleansing of Palestine, to make way for communities solely for the enjoyment of Jews, without that in any way being indicative of racism, dates back to the early days of ben-Gurion.

NATO has wielded a big stick to stop this sort of injustice in other countries. Why does Israel get to ignore decades of UN resolutions, in direct contravention of international law? This is a shameful chapter in human history that probably won't appear in any western, history books.

In Sinai there were settlements .
In Gaza there were settlements .
Where are they now
Removed for the sake of peace
What are the results so far
A cold , possibly disappearing peace with Egypt
Rockets from Gaza
The settlements are an Arab red herring to avoid any agreement
I think there will be movement only after the hereditary Palestianian question is resolved
After that , everything could move forward

There's a lot said about supposed rockets from Gaza but real evidence is lacking. I do not take the word of the Israeli government or its gang of hasbara dweebs. Various reports have insisted ‘tens of thousands of rockets’ have rained down on Israel, without any evidence of loss of life or property damage. Israel was comparing the primitive rockets supposedly coming from Gaza to the blitz on London during WWII -- utterly asinine. A group of Israelis dressed as Arabs were caught firing rockets themselves, from outside the open air prison called Gaza.

As for the settlements being a 'red herring', are you off your rocker? By analogy, for the underdog Palestinians, their position is like that of a prisoner attempting to negotiate for a fair share of a pizza their jailer (Israel) wants to continue eating as negotiations proceed. Netanyahu says he wants talks ‘without preconditions’ while insisting on the precondition that settlement activity, not to mention the so-called ‘legalization’ of outposts, continue unabated. Moreover, he refuses to let the ’67 borders serve as a frame of reference for talks intended to establish borders without proposing an alternative other than the ridiculous routing of the so-called security fence that in reality is nothing more than another way to dispossess Palestinians. Americans were shown this in the recent 60 Minutes report, Ambassador Oren made a fool of himself trying to suppress. Israel is the only country on the planet that refuses to define its borders, for obvious reasons. Israel wants talks about borders without any frame of reference while continuing to gobble up the real estate Israel stole from the Palestinians in the ’67 War Israel started in the first place.

Binyamin Netanyahu’s double talk two-step never ends, and the absurd contradictions don’t fool nearly as many people as he thinks. The lies irreversibly damage Israel’s credibility and the hasbara brigade’s allegations of anti-Semitism do far more to fuel real anti-Semitism than any other threat the Jewish people face. When the truth about the Israel-firsters’ bankrupting America and sending American sons and daughters to shed blood for Israel’s ‘security’ gains traction, the anger will be palpable. If Israel draws America into a pointless, ruinous war with Iran, I would not want to be an Israel-firster in America.

The idea that the jews do not have the right to a jewish nation state when the world is already full of nationstates is plain racist, yet it is also self-rigtheously and pompously presented in the name of anti-racsim. Shame on you.

Let me get this straight. You are fully in favor of establishing 'settlements' outside Israel, where only Jews are permitted to live, and you feel you deserve a nation-state so constituted, and I'M THE RACIST?!

Go look in the mirror and hold those inconsistent thoughts together in your head until your skull implodes. It shouldn't take long.

I couldn't believe I read this one. A lot can be said for and against Netanyahu but to deny rockets are being fired from Gaza is incredible. I don't know if this guy is twisted or stupid. Sounds a bit like holocaust denial to me.

The only ethnic cleansing that occurred was of the West Bank's Jewish population by the Arabs in 1948. Jews have returned to their homes.
There is another resolution scenario since any state that gives Palestinians authority will become an instant failed state. There is no consensus in that community.
So, the Palestinians will be given semi-autonomy is Oslo Areas A and B while Israel retains authority in Area C. That will preserve a Jewish majority in Israel-proper and provide Palestinians with a model to prove themselves without self-destructing. Palestinians might gain full independence if they are able to face the reality of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

With regard to the options presented:
1.) The Palestinians can create their own democracy. BUT, there are NO arab democracies to model from.
2.) Apartheid? In the Palestinian lands? If there is a Palestinian state than there would be international boundaries. That is a kind of apartheid.
3.) This is what many Arabs have been demanding for 60 odd years.

Peace is possible. Both parties must try. Blaming one or the other continues the status quo.

Don't count on Israel to make any move to end the occupation. Least of all a far-right ultra-nationalist messianic zealot like Netanyahu. He has made clear time and again that he does not want to let go off "Judea and Samaria", which he sees as the inalienable heritage of all the Jewish people. He will drive his country off the cliff rather that giving up his delusional vision.