its great news that Josh Paul is back up with the big club today. hopefully Jerry will be smart enough to play Paul more then once every 2 weeks and will keep Mark Johnson on the far end of the bench. i don't care if he is a left handed bat or not!

______________
:julie

Jerry_Manuel

07-29-2002, 07:58 PM

Ugh.

Another Paul backer.

PaleHoseGeorge

07-29-2002, 07:59 PM

Hooray! The newest era of mediocre baseball has officially returned to Comiskey. Josh Paul has been given a major league uniform!

I can hardly wait for him to demonstrate his versatility!

Sniff... Sniff... if only they could bring back Greg Norton and Mike Caruso, too...

Daver

07-29-2002, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Hooray! The newest era of mediocre baseball has officially returned to Comiskey. Josh Paul has been given a major league uniform!

I can hardly wait for him to demonstrate his versatility!

Sniff... Sniff... if only they could bring back Greg Norton and Mike Caruso, too...

While your at it hunt up Chris Szabo and Craig Grebeck,mediocrity at it's finest I tells ya!!!

hold2dibber

07-29-2002, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Hooray! The newest era of mediocre baseball has officially returned to Comiskey. Josh Paul has been given a major league uniform!

I can hardly wait for him to demonstrate his versatility!

Sniff... Sniff... if only they could bring back Greg Norton and Mike Caruso, too...

And Chris Snopek and Lyle Mouton and Craig Grebeck and Daryl Boston, for that matter!

Who cares if Paul is up or not. Neither he nor MJ are the answer at C. The Sox obviously know that Paul is not a major league catcher or, with MJ's performance this year, Paul would have been up a long time ago. I don't mind if Paul plays a lot, since this season is over anyway and he will undoubtedly show the FOV'ers that he is, in fact, a mediocre AAA player and not a major league talent.

Soxheads

07-29-2002, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Hooray! The newest era of mediocre baseball has officially returned to Comiskey. Josh Paul has been given a major league uniform!

I can hardly wait for him to demonstrate his versatility!

Sniff... Sniff... if only they could bring back Greg Norton and Mike Caruso, too...

I can't wait to see Josh bat with his .500 average! I bet he goes deep twice, and gets three triples!

Wow, it brings a tear to my eye to know I was an original Paul hater. :smile:

ISUSoxfan

07-29-2002, 10:24 PM

I'm a big fan of Josh Paul. He's not the next Ivan Rodrigez, but he's better than what we've had behind the plate and he's a Sox fan who hates the Cubs. That has to count for something. He's one of us.

By the way, Craig Grebeck has been one of my favorite players ever since he stood up to Nolan Ryan. He homered off Ryan, then got drilled in his next at bat. He ran to first without rubbing it, then asked the umpire to check the ball in his next at-bat. Ryan was famous for throwing at any hitter who requested that the ball be checked. That's what made me a Little Hurt fan.

duke of dorwood

07-29-2002, 10:30 PM

We have likely seen the last stolen base by an opposing player this year

guillen4life13

07-29-2002, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
I'm a big fan of Josh Paul. He's not the next Ivan Rodrigez, but he's better than what we've had behind the plate and he's a Sox fan who hates the Cubs. That has to count for something. He's one of us.

By the way, Craig Grebeck has been one of my favorite players ever since he stood up to Nolan Ryan. He homered off Ryan, then got drilled in his next at bat. He ran to first without rubbing it, then asked the umpire to check the ball in his next at-bat. Ryan was famous for throwing at any hitter who requested that the ball be checked. That's what made me a Little Hurt fan.

robin ventura should have learned from craig, unless his event occurred before grebeck's.

but if you want true versatility, why not bring back chris singleton?

btw who was the lf'er before carlos lee? cfer before singleton?

BuehrleACE56

07-29-2002, 10:40 PM

i am a josh paul fan. he's just as good as MJ and i think them two as a righty/lefty tandem is a good thing. niether can be worse than sandy who sucked. i am glad to be rid of him. so far in his 6-game stint this season josh paul has played well, at least at the plate. who says he cant, or hasnt, improved as a player. give him a chance.

Daver

07-29-2002, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by BuehrleACE56
i am a josh paul fan. he's just as good as MJ and i think them two as a righty/lefty tandem is a good thing. niether can be worse than sandy who sucked. i am glad to be rid of him. so far in his 6-game stint this season josh paul has played well, at least at the plate. who says he cant, or hasnt, improved as a player. give him a chance.

A chance to do what?Continue to delay the game while Joe Nosseck calls the game for him?A chance to watch the other team to steal at will against his erratic arm?

Plain and simple Josh Paul sucks,the sooner you realize it the better.

Jerry_Manuel

07-29-2002, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by daver
A chance to do what?Continue to delay the game while Joe Nosseck calls the game for him?A chance to watch the other team to steal at will against his erratic arm?

Plain and simple Josh Paul sucks,the sooner you realize it the better.

I just don't get this, Daver.

Josh has no skill whatsoever. Yet everyone wants to keep throwing him out there. Last season everyone wanted Juilo Ramirez gone, but they want Josh Paul back out there. Ramirez had some skill, he just couldn't hit.

Daver

07-29-2002, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

I just don't get this, Daver.

Josh has no skill whatsoever. Yet everyone wants to keep throwing him out there. Last season everyone wanted Juilo Ramirez gone, but they want Josh Paul back out there. Ramirez had some skill, he just couldn't hit.

I don't have an answer for you JM,all I can do is send the message.

ISUSoxfan

07-29-2002, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by guillen4life13

robin ventura should have learned from craig, unless his event occurred before grebeck's.

but if you want true versatility, why not bring back chris singleton?

btw who was the lf'er before carlos lee? cfer before singleton?
Grebeck's was first. When Hibbard retaliated and the Texas hitter charged the mound, Nolan Ryan stayed in the dugout while all 49 other players and most of the coaches were fighting on the field. Can anyone remember which player it was that charged? I know it was their 3B. Was it Dean Palmer, then same guy who charged Parque in 2000?

We had Lyle Mouton in LF before Carlos. Darrin Lewis and Dave Martinez played CF before Singleton. Darrin Jackson also played some of both.

Dont forget about Jeff Abbott, he played over half a season there before losing his job to Carlos.

Soxboyrob

07-30-2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

Josh has no skill whatsoever. Yet everyone wants to keep throwing him out there. Last season everyone wanted Juilo Ramirez gone, but they want Josh Paul back out there. Ramirez had some skill, he just couldn't hit.

None of our catchers have demonstrated a lot of skill. Mark Johnson has the best arm of the bunch but has shown little other ability. Alomar had the best bat of the bunch but had shown little other ability. Paul's arm is probably in the middle of the two, he has good speed and will probably be a better hitter (albeit, not by much) than Mark Johnson. Josh is nothing to get overly excited about, but he strikes me as being in about the same ballpark as Alomar and Mark Johnson. Chalking him up as possessing "no skill whatsoever" is a bit harsh. I'm so tired of watching this current bunch of lame-asses that I'll settle for getting moderately excited about a catcher that can actually run fast. Sad isn't it?

Randar68

07-30-2002, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Soxboyrob

None of our catchers have demonstrated a lot of skill. Mark Johnson has the best arm of the bunch but has shown little other ability. Alomar had the best bat of the bunch but had shown little other ability. Paul's arm is probably in the middle of the two, he has good speed and will probably be a better hitter (albeit, not by much) than Mark Johnson. Josh is nothing to get overly excited about, but he strikes me as being in about the same ballpark as Alomar and Mark Johnson. Chalking him up as possessing "no skill whatsoever" is a bit harsh. I'm so tired of watching this current bunch of lame-asses that I'll settle for getting moderately excited about a catcher that can actually run fast. Sad isn't it?

Unless you've played catcher or talked to catchers at a reasonable level of competition, most have no idea the nuances and difficulty, mentally as well as physical, that catchers must possess. Marl Johnson calls his own game because he knows how to handle his pitchers. Josh Paul has no clue, doesn't block pitches in the dirt as well, and while his arm strangth may be equal to Alomar and MJ's, he is more erratic than either.

Hitting is the 3rd most important aspect of a catcher's duties IMO. That is the only thing Paul does better than MJ.

LongDistanceFan

07-30-2002, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Randar68

Unless you've played catcher or talked to catchers at a reasonable level of competition, most have no idea the nuances and difficulty, mentally as well as physical, that catchers must possess. Marl Johnson calls his own game because he knows how to handle his pitchers. Josh Paul has no clue, doesn't block pitches in the dirt as well, and while his arm strangth may be equal to Alomar and MJ's, he is more erratic than either.

Hitting is the 3rd most important aspect of a catcher's duties IMO. That is the only thing Paul does better than MJ.

randar what of this lisk player in class a ball?

soxrme

07-30-2002, 01:11 PM

I wonder why there is all this discussion about Josh Paul. When Mark Johnson is the alternative, he looks good. We need a catcher badly (Pudge???). But I believe that Paul will do better than Johnson. As far as calling his own game, how many 20 game potential winners do we have. We do have a potential 20 game loser who has been caught by Johnson all year. Paul at least hustles and does have some upsides such as speed and youth. Believe me, I do not think he is anymore than a 2nd string guy, but Johnson is horrible. As far as the big skirt (this year) hopefully he will be the big hurt next year. We cannot get rid of another great hitter. (Baines in his prime). Sorry also to say but you guys who think Valentin is a shortstop must be on crack. His only 1/2 way good position is 2nd base. It might be time for him to go. I keep hearing that Borchard is not ready, how long until he is. We need him here to see what he can do. If Patterson can play for the idiots we sure can play Borchard at least to see if he can cover center. I will again ask where are our scouts? Can we not find position players at all?

Jerry_Manuel

07-30-2002, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by soxrme
I wonder why there is all this discussion about Josh Paul. When Mark Johnson is the alternative, he looks good. But I believe that Paul will do better than Johnson. As far as calling his own game, how many 20 game potential winners do we have. We do have a potential 20 game loser who has been caught by Johnson all year. As far as the big skirt (this year) hopefully he will be the big hurt next year. Sorry also to say but you guys who think Valentin is a shortstop must be on crack. His only 1/2 way good position is 2nd base. It might be time for him to go. I keep hearing that Borchard is not ready, how long until he is. We need him here to see what he can do. If Patterson can play for the idiots we sure can play Borchard at least to see if he can cover center. I will again ask where are our scouts? Can we not find position players at all?

For the last time, catcher is a defensive position. If you cannot play defense, then that's not good. That's Josh Paul. Sure, he runs quick, he plays hard, but he can't block a ball in the dirt to save his life.

Valentin is a good short stop in terms of getting to balls. Throwing them to first is another story. When Borchard cuts down on his strike outs he'll be ready.

The scouts can only do so much. They've picked out some good catchers the past few years, but Reinsdorf won't pay them the money they are asking for.

LongDistanceFan

07-30-2002, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

The scouts can only do so much. They've picked out some good catchers the past few years, but Reinsdorf won't pay them the money they are asking for.

and with the pick that the sox had, would've solved that problem for a verry long time.

soxrme

07-30-2002, 01:52 PM

Also for the last time - Johnson is not a good defensive catcher. Where do you get this? He has a mediocre arm and I just fail to see what it is you see in him. And who haven't they signed? Other than Boras clients they seem to be signing most of their draft choices.

Daver

07-30-2002, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by soxrme
Also for the last time - Johnson is not a good defensive catcher. Where do you get this? He has a mediocre arm and I just fail to see what it is you see in him. And who haven't they signed? Other than Boras clients they seem to be signing most of their draft choices.

No one has said that MJ was a good defensive catcher,unless you are comparing him to Josh Paul,who's defensive skills are basically non existent.

LongDistanceFan

07-30-2002, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by soxrme
Also for the last time - Johnson is not a good defensive catcher. Where do you get this? He has a mediocre arm and I just fail to see what it is you see in him. And who haven't they signed? Other than Boras clients they seem to be signing most of their draft choices.

during the playoff, several yrs ago. the basic fundamental job of a catcher to frame the strike zone for the pitcher. he doesn't do that. even some of the better cat will hold that frame and ease it over for the umpire to see it, so maybe he could influence his opinion once in a later innings. when a strike is needed. these are all techniques that paul hasn't shown. not that mj is better, but he does a little things like that behind the plate. which makes him a better catcher than paul.

ref to who they haven't signed. c'mon now. when a group is saying this then you have to believe then when it is being said. but back to your question, richie i believe was a catcher that they drafted and jon zeringue was the other catcher they drafted. none of which had boras as an agent. they were excellent prospects.

delben91

07-30-2002, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

richie i believe was a catcher that they drafted and jon zeringue was the other catcher they drafted. none of which had boras as an agent. they were excellent prospects.

Yep, those were the two.

Didn't the sox sign a catcher drafted in a "relatively" early round from this past year's draft, or am I way off on that?

rmusacch

07-30-2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by ISUSoxfan

We had Lyle Mouton in LF before Carlos. Darrin Lewis and Dave Martinez played CF before Singleton. Darrin Jackson also played some of both.

Actually Albert Belle was the LF before Carlos and Mike Cameron was the CF before Singleton.

Daver

07-30-2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by delben91

Yep, those were the two.

Didn't the sox sign a catcher drafted in a "relatively" early round from this past year's draft, or am I way off on that?

They signed Shane Scoville,taken in the 18th round.

LongDistanceFan

07-30-2002, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by delben91

Yep, those were the two.

Didn't the sox sign a catcher drafted in a "relatively" early round from this past year's draft, or am I way off on that?

they drafted several catcher last yr but the earliest was the 18 round.

Iwritecode

07-30-2002, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by soxrme As far as calling his own game, how many 20 game potential winners do we have. We do have a potential 20 game loser who has been caught by Johnson all year.

The catcher can only call the pitches. The pitcher is the one who has to put it there...

LongDistanceFan

07-30-2002, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Iwritecode

The catcher can only call the pitches. The pitcher is the one who has to put it there...

ref to the 20 game loser, i wonder if ritchie is that list of potential .

doublem23

07-30-2002, 02:51 PM

Yeah, Josh Paul sucks.

LongDistanceFan

07-30-2002, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

during the playoff, several yrs ago. the basic fundamental job of a catcher to frame the strike zone for the pitcher. he doesn't do that. even some of the better cat will hold that frame and ease it over for the umpire to see it, so maybe he could influence his opinion once in a later innings. when a strike is needed. these are all techniques that paul hasn't shown. not that mj is better, but he does a little things like that behind the plate. which makes him a better catcher than paul.

i came on a little harsh there and sorry about that. i just remembered something that i wanted to add. if the framing of the pitches is a fundamental mistake. then why hasn't the coaches seen this or corrected it. is it that the basic techniques that we were taught as youngsters are now being ignored? i see a lot of young cat doing this mistake and the lesson of hiding your right hand behind your back. hardly anyone is doing any of this.

JoseCanseco6969

07-30-2002, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by daver

A chance to do what?Continue to delay the game while Joe Nosseck calls the game for him?A chance to watch the other team to steal at will against his erratic arm?

Plain and simple Josh Paul sucks,the sooner you realize it the better.

Hey daver, arent you also the one who said kip wells sucked and couldnt pitch in the league??? I dont now if you are the most reliable judge of young talent around here- the original Toad Ritchie backer.

Daver

07-30-2002, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

Hey daver, arent you also the one who said kip wells sucked and couldnt pitch in the league??? I dont now if you are the most reliable judge of young talent around here- the original Toad Ritchie backer.

Ummm,no I said that Kip would never pitch well for the Sox.

I am quite sure that you are a much better judge of talent than I am......

Randar68

07-30-2002, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

Hey daver, arent you also the one who said kip wells sucked and couldnt pitch in the league??? I dont now if you are the most reliable judge of young talent around here- the original Toad Ritchie backer.

I don't recall anything from Daver other than stuff along the lines of, Kip has good stuff, but mush for brains and he's run out of opportunities. Also, Todd Ritchie comments were pretty limited to: If you think we have a chance to win going into the season with a rotation of Buehrle, Wells, Wright, Glover, Garland, you are nuts.

Maybe we should put Rowand and Paul back out there... yeah.... that would be great....

What part about the responsibilities of a catcher don't you understand? Hitting is tertiary...

Randar68

07-30-2002, 05:14 PM

BTW, how many Championships have Mike Piazza or Ivan Rodriguez won????

I am quite sure that you are a much better judge of talent than I am......

ok MR "teal" daver, here's a genius quote you probably would like to forget:

"Kip Wells has had three years to prove himself,and has crapped his pants everytime he gets in a jam.He is NOTan MLB starter,and if he is destined for the pen I would rather have Ritchie."

Wow, there is sure genius at work there, i guess i should put this in teal to be just as cool as you daver. And on the "Todd Ritchie thread, there are so many more of these great quotes from daver. Ohh and by the way, while looking through those old posts i saw a banned member who seemed very knowledgable on the topics, im just curious why he is a banned member?

Daver

07-30-2002, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

ok MR "teal" daver, here's a genius quote you probably would like to forget:

"Kip Wells has had three years to prove himself,and has crapped his pants everytime he gets in a jam.He is NOTan MLB starter,and if he is destined for the pen I would rather have Ritchie."

Wow, there is sure genius at work there, i guess i should put this in teal to be just as cool as you daver. And on the "Todd Ritchie thread, there are so many more of these great quotes from daver. Ohh and by the way, while looking through those old posts i saw a banned member who seemed very knowledgable on the topics, im just curious why he is a banned member?

For people like myself who wasnt around here then, it's pretty funny to read this topic. i encourage all to read this.

JoseCanseco6969

07-30-2002, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by daver

Which banned member are you referring to?

the bmr guy

Daver

07-30-2002, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

the bmr guy

Bmr's opinions on baseball had nothing to do with him being banned.

Randar68

07-30-2002, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
Ohh and by the way, while looking through those old posts i saw a banned member who seemed very knowledgable on the topics, im just curious why he is a banned member?

Bmr, is that You?????

Mathew

07-30-2002, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Randar68

Bmr, is that You?????

I was wondering that but I couldn't remember if bmr was stupid enough to be the biggest FOV we've seen?

Randar68

07-30-2002, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Mathew

I was wondering that but I couldn't remember if bmr was stupid enough to be the biggest FOV we've seen?

LOL!

FarWestChicago

07-30-2002, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
Ohh and by the way, while looking through those old posts i saw a banned member who seemed very knowledgable on the topics, im just curious why he is a banned member? If you have no idea what you are talking about, I would recommend silence. That's always a good policy. Daver is the nice one around here.

bullsn2007

07-31-2002, 12:16 AM

did any1 catch Karl Ravech's comment on Baseball Tonight last night?

"They (the White Sox) have a lot of good catchers in the organization"

--------
Anyways, I am new here and I dont like seeing Jose Paul as our catcher, but he cant be worse than MJ.

JoseCanseco6969

07-31-2002, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by FarWestChicago
If you have no idea what you are talking about, I would recommend silence. That's always a good policy. Daver is the nice one around here.

hey that was exactly the point, i didnt know why he was banned and i though maybe you guys would be able to say what he did. and I never said anything about daver not being a "nice one around here." So if youre gonna play this hush hush game then fine whatever, i just want daver to admit he was wrong on kipper and could possible be wrong as a talent judge on other players.

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 01:46 AM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

hey that was exactly the point, i didnt know why he was banned and i though maybe you guys would be able to say what he did. and I never said anything about daver not being a "nice one around here." So if youre gonna play this hush hush game then fine whatever, i just want daver to admit he was wrong on kipper and could possible be wrong as a talent judge on other players.

bmr was a nice person at times. and did bring alot to this board. in addition, he brought a angry side and tried to belittle, cuss, and over all be disruptive on the board. it got to a point where he was challenging the moderators, who after several warnings, was banned. to my knowledge, he was the only one of the regulars to get banned. these guys put up with a lot of crap and are overall good guys, even the posters.

you don't need to win every argument.

JoseCanseco6969

07-31-2002, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

bmr was a nice person at times. and did bring alot to this board. in addition, he brought a angry side and tried to belittle, cuss, and over all be disruptive on the board. it got to a point where he was challenging the moderators, who after several warnings, was banned. to my knowledge, he was the only one of the regulars to get banned. these guys put up with a lot of crap and are overall good guys, even the posters.

you don't need to win every argument.

thank you very much for being direct, thats all i wanted to know

doublem23

07-31-2002, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

Hey daver, arent you also the one who said kip wells sucked and couldnt pitch in the league??? I dont now if you are the most reliable judge of young talent around here- the original Toad Ritchie backer.

Originally posted by Randar68

I don't recall anything from Daver other than stuff along the lines of, Kip has good stuff, but mush for brains and he's run out of opportunities. Also, Todd Ritchie comments were pretty limited to: If you think we have a chance to win going into the season with a rotation of Buehrle, Wells, Wright, Glover, Garland, you are nuts.

Maybe we should put Rowand and Paul back out there... yeah.... that would be great....

What part about the responsibilities of a catcher don't you understand? Hitting is tertiary...

Call an ambulance, JoseCanseco6969, 'cuz you just got burned.

baggio202

07-31-2002, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

hey that was exactly the point, i didnt know why he was banned and i though maybe you guys would be able to say what he did. and I never said anything about daver not being a "nice one around here." So if youre gonna play this hush hush game then fine whatever, i just want daver to admit he was wrong on kipper and could possible be wrong as a talent judge on other players.

just give it up...youll never get daver to admit he was wrong about the ritchie trade..ive tried..and got attacked the same way you are by his followers...i like daver alot..disagree with him about half the time..i feel he knows his stuff...but if you take daver you take on the FOD (friends of daver) too...its almost like a cult following...

Randar68

07-31-2002, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by baggio202

just give it up...youll never get daver to admit he was wrong about the ritchie trade..ive tried..and got attacked the same way you are by his followers...i like daver alot..disagree with him about half the time..i feel he knows his stuff...but if you take daver you take on the FOD (friends of daver) too...its almost like a cult following... '

*****! If someone tries to put words in your mouth, I'll defend you too. Neither Daver nor myself has ever said Kip was not talented. He never had/developed a mental approach to the game that would suggest he would some day work out of jams.

Look back to his quotes. Put words in someone's mouth, I'll defend them, no matter their login name.

JoseCanseco6969

07-31-2002, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by baggio202

just give it up...youll never get daver to admit he was wrong about the ritchie trade..ive tried..and got attacked the same way you are by his followers...i like daver alot..disagree with him about half the time..i feel he knows his stuff...but if you take daver you take on the FOD (friends of daver) too...its almost like a cult following...

yes it seems he has a whole clan behind him that wont budge. Well i just think it is pretty sad that one man cant own up to his own mistakes without having his stooges go out and back him up for obviously being totally wrong. It really means nothing to me but i just hate being labeled the biggest FOV there is because i barely like josh paul...i just think he is an improvement over MJ, bottom line. and all you FOD's, please let daver speak for himself.
And yes daver said KIP IS NOT AN MLB STARTER!! i think that qualifies as saying he has no talent which is proved wrong because hes tearing it up a an MLB STARTER.
and haha doublem, probably a high one on the FOD payroll, i guess i better call an ambulance...very clever and witty. Maybe you should get a raise for that remark

delben91

07-31-2002, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

yes it seems he has a whole clan behind him that wont budge. Well i just think it is pretty sad that one man cant own up to his own mistakes without having his stooges go out and back him up for obviously being totally wrong. It really means nothing to me but i just hate being labeled the biggest FOV there is because i barely like josh paul...i just think he is an improvement over MJ, bottom line. and all you FOD's, please let daver speak for himself.
And yes daver said KIP IS NOT AN MLB STARTER!! i think that qualifies as saying he has no talent which is proved wrong because hes tearing it up a an MLB STARTER.
and haha doublem, probably a high one on the FOD payroll, i guess i better call an ambulance...very clever and witty. Maybe you should get a raise for that remark

<genuflect> I only wish I could be as intelligent and possessed as much baseball knowledge as you. </genuflect>

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
yes it seems he has a whole clan behind him that wont budge. Well i just think it is pretty sad that one man cant own up to his own mistakes without having his stooges go out and back him up for obviously being totally wrong. It really means nothing to me but i just hate being labeled the biggest FOV there is because i barely like josh paul...i just think he is an improvement over MJ, bottom line. and all you FOD's, please let daver speak for himself.
And yes daver said KIP IS NOT AN MLB STARTER!! i think that qualifies as saying he has no talent which is proved wrong because hes tearing it up a an MLB STARTER.
and haha doublem, probably a high one on the FOD payroll, i guess i better call an ambulance...very clever and witty. Maybe you should get a raise for that remark

So what's your beef? If Daver has support amongst others around here, it's because he has built up credibility over several months (years even) with a community that knows and respect his opinions. Unlike a newcomer like you, he's earned that respect.

Also unlike you, he's on the record regarding hundreds of different subjects discussed around here. I can only laugh at you stomping your feet about something somebody wrote months ago--fearlessly leaving us clueless about the countless pratfalls I'm sure you would have written back then--on this subject and countless others. You have NO credibility for whining on this old subject. I suggest you just deal with this fact.

As for Bmr, he has been missing for months--and for good reason. I can't keep up with even half of what is written here, but I can tell you straight up NOBODY has written anything about him except in a derogatory tone. That's because, unlike Daver, Bmr was unreasonable, spiteful, and most of all, condescending towards other posters here. That behavior will get you banned, and rightfully so.

The fact you've seen fit to sift through mountains of old posts and overlook Bmr's obvious shortcomings for earned respect amongst his peers, to me speaks volumes about why many of us are skeptical about many other opinions of yours--especially regarding Daver.

Bmr is gone and he is not missed. I suggest you just deal with this fact, too.

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 03:22 PM

what is this silly fight all about. do we need to affiliate ourself with certain posters in order to be taken serious.

for your info, i am not a friend of any one but hopefully a friend to all. however, i will disagree with anyone if i think you are wrong. which i have on the kipp wells trade.

you may not agree with everyone, but you need to respect their opinions.

JoseCanseco6969

07-31-2002, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

So what's your beef? If Daver has support amongst others around here, it's because he has built up credibility over several months (years even) with a community that knows and respect his opinions. Unlike a newcomer like you, he's earned that respect.

Also unlike you, he's on the record regarding hundreds of different subjects discussed around here. I can only laugh at you stomping your feet about something somebody wrote months ago--fearlessly leaving us clueless about the countless pratfalls I'm sure you would have written back then--on this subject and countless others. You have NO credibility for whining on this old subject. I suggest you just deal with this fact.

As for Bmr, he has been missing for months--and for good reason. I can't keep up with even half of what is written here, but I can tell you straight up NOBODY has written anything about him except in a derogatory tone. That's because, unlike Daver, Bmr was unreasonable, spiteful, and most of all, condescending towards other posters here. That behavior will get you banned, and rightfully so.

The fact you've seen fit to sift through mountains of old posts and overlook Bmr's obvious shortcomings for earned respect amongst his peers, to me speaks volumes about why many of us are skeptical about many other opinions of yours--especially regarding Daver.

Bmr is gone and he is not missed. I suggest you just deal with this fact, too.

ok i could care less about bmr, it was simply a question. also i dont think your name is daver, which i was directing my question to. another thing, i dont get why everyone but daver is gaining up on me, why cant me and him discuss this? this isnt going anywhere because i keep finding more and more people against me since im new and daver is old.
and by the way, Delben91 obviously a FOD, since when did you become the Mr baseball knowledge around here?
and to respond to longdistancefan, i do respect other people's opinions but it kinda sucks when i speak my opinion versus daver, i'm immediately discredited by all his followers since hes been here a long time. just be fair people and stop kissing daver's a$$ all the time.

FarWestChicago

07-31-2002, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
and to respond to longdistancefan, i do respect other people's opinions but it kinda sucks when i speak my opinion versus daver, i'm immediately discredited by all his followers since hes been here a long time. just be fair people and stop kissing daver's a$$ all the time. I've got a newsflash for you. If it wasn't for Daver's tireless work, this board wouldn't still be here. Due to career obligations, I don't have the time I need to keep this zoo under control. And I'm not going to let my board go to hell. If you want to have it out with Daver, take it to email. He's always up for that. You are done with your personal vendetta here.

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969

and to respond to longdistancefan, i do respect other people's opinions but it kinda sucks when i speak my opinion versus daver, i'm immediately discredited by all his followers since hes been here a long time. just be fair people and stop kissing daver's a$$ all the time.

i do not kiss anybody arse. if you were here longer, then you will know that of me. i have disagreed with davers as he will a test to this, when in a debate, everyone joins in. everybody puts their opinion in and its called communication.

second going after phg is a wrong move. he has the final word here. he is the owner and this board in not a democracy. i expected him to do what he did, as i would've done the same.

you sure sounds like someone from the past here.

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
ok i could care less about bmr, it was simply a question. also i dont think your name is daver, which i was directing my question to....

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking to the rest of us when you referred to "the whole clan" and "stooges". Apparently you were talking about the stooge that comprises the clan-of-one that agrees with you.

See. The archive works against you. Just five posts ago, you were singing a different tune. Now you're playing the aggrieved party? *****!

Daver has credibility. You don't. If you think it's wrong that others here respect and agree with Daver's viewpoint--while laughing at yours-- that's your problem to fix.

I must say, you're doing piss poor job of it so far.

Soxheads

07-31-2002, 11:41 PM

I wonder if I have any credibility at all to anyone...... :?:

baggio202

07-31-2002, 11:41 PM

george...all jose asked was why was brm banned...he didint comment on whether it was right or wrong...sounded to me like it was just a curious question....

kinda funny...you got soxhead and a few others spamming all over other sox sites for WSI then when a new guy comes over with an unpopular opinion and he takes on one of the regulars youre basically scoulding the guy for daring to disagree with daver...raging on him because he is new and doesnt have the reputation daver does???...why bother spamming if all youre gonna do is rag on the newbie???...look at your response...your scolding him like he is a little kid...

canseco took offense to a smart ass comment from daver towards another poster..buehrleace56...go read this thread...daver talks down to anyone that thinks paul is as good or better than johnson.....daver is famous for being a smart ass to anyone that disagrees with him...he used to rub me the wrong way when i first started dealing with him until i got know him...now i realize that just the way he is and doesnt really mean anything by it...but if someone is new here they wont be used to it and will fight back...

free thought does not exist at this board...imtimidation sure does though

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I don't have the time I need to keep this zoo under control.

who has the job to clean out the cages..........i keep envisioning someone with an Australian accent saying cracky.

:D:

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by Soxheads
I wonder if I have any credibility at all to anyone...... :?:

nope. :D: :gulp:

j/k

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 11:46 PM

Sorry, Baggio. I can't say I've ever taken nicely to having this community trashed. It's too bad you found my retort to the offending party objectionable. I can assure you I didn't.

FarWestChicago

07-31-2002, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

who has the job to clean out the cages..........i keep envisioning someone with an Australian accent saying cracky.

:D: LMAO!!!! :D:

Soxheads

07-31-2002, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

nope. :D: :gulp:

Wouldn't surprise me....

Soxheads

07-31-2002, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

who has the job to clean out the cages..........i keep envisioning someone with an Australian accent saying cracky.

:D:
I believe it's crikey, mate. :D:

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Soxheads

Wouldn't surprise me....

hey i was joking, i had hope you would see that. i just wanted to lighten this thread.

sorry.

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by Soxheads

I believe it's crikey, mate. :D:

oops :)

Jerry_Manuel

07-31-2002, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
hey i was joking, i had hope you would see that. i just wanted to lighten this thread.

sorry.

You'll have to forgive Heads, he's from Iowa. :smile:

I understand your jokes just fine. I haven't had a thought since the first day I posted here. Yet people still listen to my babble. :D:

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

You'll have to forgive Heads, he's from Iowa. :smile:

I understand your jokes just fine. I haven't had a thought since the first day I posted here. Yet people still listen to my babble. :D:

people have to remember, i had a soda last hr. :?:

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 11:55 PM

Actually, we did give the toilet cleaning job to 'heads. I can't remember who was in charge of picking up the parking lot trash and cleaning the windows.

There is a lot of work to be done picking up around here. And don't piss off the drive-thru attendant. He's armed.

:)

Soxheads

07-31-2002, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by LongDistanceFan

hey i was joking, i had hope you would see that. i just wanted to lighten this thread.

sorry.

I know. But most people don't think I have any credibility.

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

You'll have to forgive Heads, he's from Iowa. :smile:

I understand your jokes just fine. I haven't had a thought since the first day I posted here. Yet people still listen to my babble. :D:

Hey, I didn't choose to live here!

:smile:

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Actually, we did give the toilet cleaning job to 'heads. I can't remember who was in charge of picking up the parking lot trash and cleaning the windows.

There is a lot of work to be done picking up around here. And don't piss off the drive-thru attendant. He's armed.

:)

but i am talking about the cages man, the smell is overwhelming.

:D:

Soxheads

07-31-2002, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Actually, we did give the toilet cleaning job to 'heads.

:)

Those toilets are clean enough to eat off of. Actually, I saw JM eating off of one just the other day. :D:

Jerry_Manuel

07-31-2002, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by Soxheads
I know. But most people don't think I have any credibility.

Originally posted by Soxheads
Those toilets are clean enough to eat off of. Actually, I saw JM eating off of one just the other day. :D:

I wonder why? :D:

Soxheads

08-01-2002, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

I wonder why? :D:

I don't pry into your personal life. :smile:

I have to believe this is off-topic enough to go to the parking lot.

Randar68

08-01-2002, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by baggio202
canseco took offense to a smart ass comment from daver towards another poster..buehrleace56...go read this thread...daver talks down to anyone that thinks paul is as good or better than johnson.....daver is famous for being a smart ass to anyone that disagrees with him...he used to rub me the wrong way when i first started dealing with him until i got know him...now i realize that just the way he is and doesnt really mean anything by it...but if someone is new here they wont be used to it and will fight back...

This is a poster unwilling to debate facts, yet tries to change the topic in subtle ways to get around the ways he's just been shown to be an arse. Wait, are we sure this isn't Bmr????? LOL!

If anyone here choses to believe that batting average is the only measure by which a catcher is valuable, then you are smoking your own ass crack. It will be repeatedly thrown in your face because you have NO knowledge of the game of baseball. For proof of this, please see Josh Paul's calling of the 45 minute 10th inning tonight. hmmmmmm..... I wonder why it took 2 minutes for Josh to call each pitch.... hmmmmmm.

If you like Josh Paul, give reasons why he is better than MJ. Saying, "he hits better" is horse shiit. We have given valid and yet unchallenged reasons, in terms of why MJ is better defensively and at game calling and at throwing. I have yet to hear anything other than, Josh is versatile and may hit 30-40 points higher.

BTW, if you think this is a dictatorship, perhaps you should hit the road. I have no affiliation here, so take it for what it's worth. I heard there are a whole bunch of belligerent and whiney folks over at ESPN that love filing through 80% of spam and trolling BS. You're welcome to it.

:whiner:

BLA!

baggio202

08-01-2002, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Sorry, Baggio. I can't say I've ever taken nicely to having this community trashed. It's too bad you found my retort to the offending party objectionable. I can assure you I didn't.

george... i went back and read through this thread..i dont see what you mean by him trashing the community...maybe im missing it...

this starts off with canseco responding to a daver response to buehrleace56

"Plain and simple Josh Paul sucks,the sooner you realize it the better."

his response to daver is this:

"Hey daver, arent you also the one who said kip wells sucked and couldnt pitch in the league??? I dont now if you are the most reliable judge of young talent around here- the original Toad Ritchie backer."

from that point on its josecanseco against the community as you put it...daver came back with this quote
"Ummm,no I said that Kip would never pitch well for the Sox.

I am quite sure that you are a much better judge of talent than I am"(teal)......

then canseco repiled by digging up an old post which you and others took offense too..but daver put his credibility on the line by saying that he never said that and only said kip couldnt pitch well here..canseco showed otherwise

from daver " Kip Wells has had three years to prove himself,and has crapped his pants everytime he gets in a jam.He is NOTan MLB starter,and if he is destined for the pen I would rather have Ritchie."

from this point on he is attacked pretty hard by again for lack of a better term ill use yours, the community...at that point things get out of hand but its like 10 on 1...

you can see this is an escalating fight like most are..read through all the posts and put yourself in the new guys shoes....he gets ripped on pretty good....i dont if he proved daver wrong but he did bring in to question about whether daver did make a mistake on ritchie and wells...daver was scoulding buehrleace56 for daring to think josh paul might be a little better than johnson...and this guy called him on it...

Randar68

08-01-2002, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by baggio202

then canseco repiled by digging up an old post which you and others took offense too..but daver put his credibility on the line by saying that he never said that and only said kip couldnt pitch well here..canseco showed otherwise

You can call in anything you want, but taking one sentence out of a whole thread is hardly what I call a credible account fo the discussion. IIRC, Daver, I and others had many discussions on this topic. In addition, these topics usually revolved around reservations about Kip Wells blossoming. My recollection recalls many references to him learning to not crap his pants, him never succeeding under Nardi, etc, etc.

Do you always take a single sentence from a whole discussion as gospel?

This is truly rediculous.

PaleHoseGeorge

08-01-2002, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by baggio202
george... i went back and read through this thread..i dont see what you mean by him trashing the community...maybe im missing it...

I was referring to what was written in Post 59 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=118758#post118758) of this thread.

I had nothing to say about any of this up until that point. I don't think there is much question he was foolishly calling out everyone else on this board who wasn't agreeing with him.

I offered advice on how to win friends and influence people. Calling them a clan of stooges wasn't a very bright idea. I truly don't have anything more to say about it either.

baggio202

08-01-2002, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Randar68

BTW, if you think this is a dictatorship, perhaps you should hit the road.

ummm, think about what i was saying and your quote above...isnt that the premise behind a dictatorship???...

all i did was stick up for a new poster who i felt was being treated unfairly...i didnt attack anyone personally..i and feel i stated my reasons rationally and not in an inflamatory way...if that warrants me being forced off here then i can live with that

doublem23

08-01-2002, 02:01 AM

Sigh...

So much ado about nothing.

JoseCanseco6969

08-01-2002, 02:17 AM

im glad someone was able to finally able to put what i was trying to say in perspective a little better than i was able to, thanks baggio. I dont think this is worth discussing anymore because its just getting crazier by the day and there is no way i can win and kind of credibility with the swarm of guys against my opinion. sorry i just dont agree with you all on the paul vs MJ issue, bottom line.

LongDistanceFan

08-01-2002, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by baggio202

ummm, think about what i was saying and your quote above...isnt that the premise behind a dictatorship???...

all i did was stick up for a new poster who i felt was being treated unfairly...i didnt attack anyone personally..i and feel i stated my reasons rationally and not in an inflamatory way...if that warrants me being forced off here then i can live with that

no-one is forcing you put. compare this board with any other and you see were it is better than alot of msg boards out there. b/c of the rules set or understood.

when you look at the whole post of josewhat ever his name, it was a challenge, serious. i would have taken it and its the perception that a lot of people came away with it. but sometime pursuing it to win an argument is what i was saying is a waste and to drop it. btw, i too was offended by his clan statement and had to voice my opinion. that is why i put my 2 cents in it.

PaleHoseGeorge

08-01-2002, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
im glad someone was able to finally able to put what i was trying to say in perspective a little better than i was able to, thanks baggio. I dont think this is worth discussing anymore because its just getting crazier by the day and there is no way i can win and kind of credibility with the swarm of guys against my opinion. sorry i just dont agree with you all on the paul vs MJ issue, bottom line.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with somebody else. Please don't apologize for it. Most people here will respond favorably to a reasoned point, even if it contradicts the previous position they held.

That's one reason why this board has such a large community. Your viewpoints ought to be shared with others who will share theirs, too--not necessarily agreeing with your own. Why else have a message board?

Of course it does get rowdy from time to time. Like when this one Flubs troll showed up... or the unthinkable occured one day--a Twinks troll came here... etc. etc.

:)

delben91

08-01-2002, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
Delben91 obviously a FOD, since when did you become the Mr baseball knowledge around here

I wasn't trying to depict myself as Mr. baseball knowledge at all. In fact, in many a thread, and Randar, kermit, others will back me on this, I start out asking for more "expert" opinions than my own. I'm by nature a smart ass, and my comment to you earlier was probably overkill, which was a mistake on my part, and I apologize. I like to think that I'm known on this board as relatively level headed and accepting of opposing views. It just happens that Randar, daver, and myself, among others share certain views on certain topics, josh paul's and aaron rowand's abilities among them. Bottom line, if I did go overboard and upset you, I'm sorry, I never set out to alienate any member of this board, veteran poster or newcomer.