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Originally posted by colddog04

I don't know if you'd consider this a lie, but I rememeber my brother was still playing SWTOR and they were saying they were going to release ranked warzones in patch 1.2 (I think that was the one). He was asking me to come back to experience them with him. I told him I'd think about it. One day before the patch went live, they said that ranked warzones were out. I think they didn't even add them for months.

This was indeed a HUGE fail on their part, most people left after the period 1.2 - 1.3 in my experience. Including almost the entire PvP team that my guild was initially going to ranked with. To make matters worse, entry into ranked after 1.3 now pretty much required WH gear grinded with ranked warzone commendations that you had to actually grind out through regular warzones.

Some other patches also included patchnotes on stuff they supposedly fixed but didn't in the end, multiple times.

Famous examples:

- Bug that made wins in warzones not count toward the daily / weekly quests (they released maybe 4 patches saying it was fixed before it was actually fixed)

- SOA and Pillar boss bugs in the eternity vault raid. This was supposed to be fixed in nearly every patch, but it wasn't until a couple of months ago.

- Exploit that allowed more than 8 people to join up for warzones (8 is the max)

- People being stuck in knocked down state in warzones.

- Bugs allowing people to cap objectives while glitching into terrain

However, these weren't intentional "Lies", just a matter of spectacular inability to fix their game on the part of the devs.

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So to summarize, it should have been B2P, it released too early, and was lacking the proper amount of content?

Sounds about right. I actually agree with everything OP said. Can't speak for the genuine trolls, but I didn't think SWTOR was a bad concept, just a bad game. If it had more time to reach it's potential and attempted the leap away from p2p, it would be thriving. Not to mention, next year would have been a better release for them; only thing's coming out (far as I know) are TESO (lol), Wild Star (very different style and aesthetic), and...actually, those are the only two big MMOs I can think of. In any case, they'd have had less competition and the game would have been allowed to stand out more.

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There will be a few fabboys that cling to the game as it is on life support. The majority will migraate to other games of interest and perhaps log in the free to play version once and awhile to see how it is going. I am done with EA. I uninstalled anything that requires origin to run.

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Yes, as a matter of fact TOR is down for the count and for one simple reason: EA will not ever be willing to fund the necessary changes to make TOR "good".

FIrst, it is clear from official announcements that EA no longer cares much about TOR and has given up any efforts to build any enthusiasm for this title. So there is little motivation to take that kind of a risk with another large cash expenditure that will have a hard time being recouped.

Second, there is no way any EA exec is going to put his/her reputation on the line to get any kind of a major rewrite done. It has already cost several execs their jobs and if you think anyone else is going to put their reputation on the line to resuscitate a floundering title, which has missed almost all preformance expectations, you do not understand the coporate mentality.

Third, they have laid off so many people and are looking to do more, so that any major rewrite is probably not possible with the people they have. So, even if they wanted to (which they don't) it would be very difficult to make major changes.

All EA has been promising in terms of future content, is more of the same things they already have, which have proved less than successful so far.

So in short, TOR IS going down for the count because:

-EA won't pay to fix it

-No EA exec would want to try to or even could get approval to fix it, at the expense of their career

-So many key personnel have been canned that they couldn't fix it if they wanted to.

Bottom line is that TOR is simply product to EA and only one of many titles (granted the largest and most expensive) and corporately speaking, you don't get emotionally attached to the product.

If you get a loser, you write it off and move on. Which is exactly and precisely what EA is doing.

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The problem really is that Bioware tried to make a MMO like a singleplayer game.

The problem with that is that most people spend a short time playing a singleplayer RPG. 1-8 weeks is probably average.

And people really enjoyed TOR that long and then grow tired of the game.

Changing how people pay does not really change the fundamental problem of the game, I bougt DA2 and can play it as long as I want but I was done with it after a week or so and I feel no need to play it again even though that would cost me nothing.

TOR must figure out some ways to have the players amused for a long time and implement them in the game. They might steal from other games or invent new things but they must make the game more fun to play in the long run, not just fun in the short term.

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The problem really is that Bioware tried to make a MMO like a singleplayer game.

The problem with that is that most people spend a short time playing a singleplayer RPG. 1-8 weeks is probably average.

And people really enjoyed TOR that long and then grow tired of the game.

Changing how people pay does not really change the fundamental problem of the game, I bougt DA2 and can play it as long as I want but I was done with it after a week or so and I feel no need to play it again even though that would cost me nothing.

TOR must figure out some ways to have the players amused for a long time and implement them in the game. They might steal from other games or invent new things but they must make the game more fun to play in the long run, not just fun in the short term.

I do agree here and that is why their endgame needs some serious rethinking. I do feel however that F2P will give them the influx of players needed to demonstrate to EA there is serious interest in the game.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

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Well for myself i never count a game out completely,but the things that need change ,i just cannot see them doing it.

I do not like games that focus on pvp,that is not "the game".i also do not like any kind of automated crafting,which SWTOR needs to fix.MY main beef is combat,it was so bland i could not find fun on any class past oh around level 15+,they did not put a very good effort into that area.

So do even the hardcore fans of SWTOR think the combat system could be redone?I would want to see combos utilizing 2-3 players.I would like to see elemental effects/resistances for gear/weapons and each enemy.I want to see abilities with long timers that are sort of o/p but offer a strategy to game play.I like to see a really good hate/control system.

I think at this point,the game is on life support with a VERY small staff.If they have a substantial player base in a couple months,they might make a VERY simple xpac but i do not see much effort going into this game moving forward.I would LOVE to be wrong,i thought SWTOR had a ton of potential,at times i was even having fun.They just never made my player feel like a lot of fun.A simple example...Whgen i played FFXI i had a very hard time to find enough macro space for al lthe various things my player could do.In Swtor i felt like i was playing Rift using the same few spells/abilities over and over,it didn't matter what i was fighting.

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The problem really is that Bioware tried to make a MMO like a singleplayer game.

The problem with that is that most people spend a short time playing a singleplayer RPG. 1-8 weeks is probably average.

And people really enjoyed TOR that long and then grow tired of the game.

Changing how people pay does not really change the fundamental problem of the game, I bougt DA2 and can play it as long as I want but I was done with it after a week or so and I feel no need to play it again even though that would cost me nothing.

TOR must figure out some ways to have the players amused for a long time and implement them in the game. They might steal from other games or invent new things but they must make the game more fun to play in the long run, not just fun in the short term.

If 1-8 weeks is the average then nobody in that mix has played Skyrim lol.

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The problem really is that Bioware tried to make a MMO like a singleplayer game.

The problem with that is that most people spend a short time playing a singleplayer RPG. 1-8 weeks is probably average.

And people really enjoyed TOR that long and then grow tired of the game.

Changing how people pay does not really change the fundamental problem of the game, I bougt DA2 and can play it as long as I want but I was done with it after a week or so and I feel no need to play it again even though that would cost me nothing.

TOR must figure out some ways to have the players amused for a long time and implement them in the game. They might steal from other games or invent new things but they must make the game more fun to play in the long run, not just fun in the short term.

If 1-8 weeks is the average then nobody in that mix has played Skyrim lol.

Oddly my impression of Skyrimm was simlar to that of SWTOR. I was warned that it was easy to rush through the main story, so I avoided it and the Civil War quests. As my charcter became head of the Companions, the Mage's College, the Thieve's Guild, the Dark Brotherhood; I realized that my descions had little affect on anything. The dungeons wee all similar and uninspired. Combat was repetitive and easy. I don;t recall dying more then a few times ever. The few times I had a companion were annoying. The game became unenjoyable and I stopped, many hours in, but I stopped in about a month. In many ways my complaints were very simlar to my complaints obout SWTOR. In the end, a bad game is a bad game, be it sandbox or themepark.

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The problem really is that Bioware tried to make a MMO like a singleplayer game.

The problem with that is that most people spend a short time playing a singleplayer RPG. 1-8 weeks is probably average.

And people really enjoyed TOR that long and then grow tired of the game.

Changing how people pay does not really change the fundamental problem of the game, I bougt DA2 and can play it as long as I want but I was done with it after a week or so and I feel no need to play it again even though that would cost me nothing.

TOR must figure out some ways to have the players amused for a long time and implement them in the game. They might steal from other games or invent new things but they must make the game more fun to play in the long run, not just fun in the short term.

If 1-8 weeks is the average then nobody in that mix has played Skyrim lol.

Oddly my impression of Skyrimm was simlar to that of SWTOR. I was warned that it was easy to rush through the main story, so I avoided it and the Civil War quests. As my charcter became head of the Companions, the Mage's College, the Thieve's Guild, the Dark Brotherhood; I realized that my descions had little affect on anything. The dungeons wee all similar and uninspired. Combat was repetitive and easy. I don;t recall dying more then a few times ever. The few times I had a companion were annoying. The game became unenjoyable and I stopped, many hours in, but I stopped in about a month. In many ways my complaints were very simlar to my complaints obout SWTOR. In the end, a bad game is a bad game, be it sandbox or themepark.

I don't believe it is fair to call either game a bad game simply because you did not like them. Both games have solid core game mechanics and there are still people who are playing both months after launch.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

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Originally posted by Presbytier

I don't believe it is fair to call either game a bad game simply because you did not like them. Both games have solid core game mechanics and there are still people who are playing both months after launch.

In my opinion the games suffered from similar problems. Not that my opinion is any more valid then anyone else's. I only thought it intresting to compare the two because one is sandbox and one is themepark. (Also one is considered a hit and one a miss, furthermore, Skyrim is in essence coming out as an MMO soon with TES online.)

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Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Presbytier

I don't believe it is fair to call either game a bad game simply because you did not like them. Both games have solid core game mechanics and there are still people who are playing both months after launch.

In my opinion the games suffered from similar problems. Not that my opinion is any more valid then anyone else's. I only thought it intresting to compare the two because one is sandbox and one is themepark. (Also one is considered a hit and one a miss, furthermore, Skyrim is in essence coming out as an MMO soon with TES online.)

Unfortunately for TESO it won"t be using the one thing that I found made Skyrim great; namely its skill system and combat.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

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Oddly my impression of Skyrimm was simlar to that of SWTOR. I was warned that it was easy to rush through the main story, so I avoided it and the Civil War quests. As my charcter became head of the Companions, the Mage's College, the Thieve's Guild, the Dark Brotherhood; I realized that my descions had little affect on anything. The dungeons wee all similar and uninspired. Combat was repetitive and easy. I don;t recall dying more then a few times ever. The few times I had a companion were annoying. The game became unenjoyable and I stopped, many hours in, but I stopped in about a month. In many ways my complaints were very simlar to my complaints obout SWTOR. In the end, a bad game is a bad game, be it sandbox or themepark.

I don't believe it is fair to call either game a bad game simply because you did not like them. Both games have solid core game mechanics and there are still people who are playing both months after launch.

Originally posted by Gdemami

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Not that my opinion is any more valid then anyone else's.

No, it is not, your opinion is completely invalid.

Juts because you do not like the game does not make it a "bad" game, it just make it a game you do not like. 2 different things...

Are you suggesting that in your opinion my opinion in invalid because you say so? Because Dude, yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

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The problem really is that Bioware tried to make a MMO like a singleplayer game.

The problem with that is that most people spend a short time playing a singleplayer RPG. 1-8 weeks is probably average.

And people really enjoyed TOR that long and then grow tired of the game.

Changing how people pay does not really change the fundamental problem of the game, I bougt DA2 and can play it as long as I want but I was done with it after a week or so and I feel no need to play it again even though that would cost me nothing.

TOR must figure out some ways to have the players amused for a long time and implement them in the game. They might steal from other games or invent new things but they must make the game more fun to play in the long run, not just fun in the short term.

If 1-8 weeks is the average then nobody in that mix has played Skyrim lol.

Oddly my impression of Skyrimm was simlar to that of SWTOR. I was warned that it was easy to rush through the main story, so I avoided it and the Civil War quests. As my charcter became head of the Companions, the Mage's College, the Thieve's Guild, the Dark Brotherhood; I realized that my descions had little affect on anything. The dungeons wee all similar and uninspired. Combat was repetitive and easy. I don;t recall dying more then a few times ever. The few times I had a companion were annoying. The game became unenjoyable and I stopped, many hours in, but I stopped in about a month. In many ways my complaints were very simlar to my complaints obout SWTOR. In the end, a bad game is a bad game, be it sandbox or themepark.

Nothing wrong with not liking something. I've never heard of any comparisons between Skyrim and SWTOR so that was a little odd to read, but you are entitled to your opinion. I'm an explorer which is why I'm loving Skyrim. I do notice the world changing from various things you do and it is certaintly not even remotely close to the linear feel of TOR...but to each his own.

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If 1-8 weeks is the average then nobody in that mix has played Skyrim lol.

I was thinking of average game, average gamer.

Skyrim might average slightly over 8 weeks but if you took everyone who bought it and got the average time I am pretty sure it wouldn´t be more than 2 months anyways, 3 tops.

And of course there are exceptions anyways, heck I still play a moded version of CIV IV myself even though that type of game generally live longer than RPGs.

I still believe that in average MMO players play the same game longer than single player players (even if they in fact are the same persons).

I think Im just not average because with my work schedule, the gym and tennis I can only play maybe 1-3 hours a day, sometimes zero so even getting to level 42 in TOR took me about 5 months (before I stopped lol). I think I get more time in these forums because they don't block this at work :-)