As much as I enjoy history, traditions and the fact that today's Royalty connects us to all this, I can't find it in me to be really interested in the Prussians - and the thought to have a Prussian prince on the throne of a Germany I live in gives me the shudders... The Prussian surely were one of the most ruthless and aggressive families of Germany's history who preferred sheer force to get what they wanted - Silesia anyone? Hannover? Hesse? Baden? There are still songs sung about Prussian oppression in other parts of Germany (like the "Badisches Wiegenlied" (lullaby of Baden), which is one of the most famous songs of the German folk tradition).

As much as I enjoyed looking at the pics of that seemingly nice couple - still I don't think that the Prussian history should give them any claim of leadership in a country which has struggled so hard and successful to overcome aggression and dictatorship with the living of democracy.

My Dear Kataryn,

the unfounded allegations You made are very rude. I should prefer that one criticizing themes the way You did should be better informed and have more than bare school knowledge. I know what was taught in history lessons in this country. I attended them too. But when You have a look into wider on-topic and also modern publications You will find results that differ a lot. Unfortunately this is not taught in class rooms - not because it is not true but because it does not fit into todays world picture. This results in opinions like Yours that make me shudder. Not because Your opinion is different from mine but because You and a lot more Germans could know better, if they just wanted. But same with other topics we tend to accept the easier way.
Back to Your examples:
First of all - and that is unregarded all the time - times were different in earlier times than today. Wars today need to be legitimized (preferebly by UN even with lies) that was different in the 18th Century. Despite that Prussia had had a legitimate claim to several Silesian counties and Principalities, it was not a strong one, but it was a claim. The Silesian People welcomed and greeted the Prussian troops warmly.

Hannover lost its sovereignty as a result of choosing the wrong ally in the 1866 war between Prussia and Austria over the leadership in Germany. The fact itself was a pathetic but also very normal act in those days. By the way the defeated Austria remained completely unaffected. But this war, like the other two of 1864 and 1871, that led to German unity was no result of Prussian aggression. These were the acts of the one and often hailed man: Bismarck, who in reality burried Prussia in letting it melt with Germany. The former King Wilhelm I (and then Kaiser Wilhelm I.) did not want that at all. The day he was proclaimed German Kaiser, he said: "today we carry Prussia to its grave".
Coming to Your next allegations this German Unity we just talked about was the result of the claims of the Liberals and Bourgeoisie relating back to 1848. These people did not made the liberal and democratic claims to make the life of the poor and hard working landliving people better. They just wanted to act instead of the Aristocracy and the Princes. In 1848 Prussian troops were called in from most German Principalities - especially Baden - to secure the power of the local Princes, because it had the biggest Army. It was not against the will of the local gouvernments. That these kind of old day propaganda songs had a special intention is clear. To say they drew the picture of reality I suppose is the same as speaking of stabbed Belgian babies in 1914 or destroyed incubators nowadays, which have been proofed lies of war propaganda (Noam Chomsky: Media Control).

It is interesting and I do not know whether it is mischief or just ignorance that the lots of positiv topics of Prussian history are never mentioned.
- Prussia was one of the first countries to celebrate religious freedom (Edikt von Potsdam in 1685)
- Prussia was the first state under the rule of law - Preußisches Landrecht 1794 (King Friedrich II. (the "evil aggressor" of Silesia) and Friedrich Wilhelm II. - in the time of absolute Monarchy in Europe and the World
- Friedrich II. acting to his motto "I am the first servant of the state"
- Stein Hardenbergsche reforms under Freidrich Wilhelm III. during and after the Napoleonic wars which paved the road for a constitutional state and modernized government
- all Kings provided better education for the people

Most wars Prussia had to fight were of defensive character. With a little more time I could also give You the numbers.

Concerning Your statement of the "most ruthless and aggressive family", especially for modern times, I want to add the name of Prince Louis Ferdinand, the grandfather of Prince Georg Friedrich, as the foremost example of the family to the contrary. Prince Louis Ferdinand was a cosmopolit, absolute anti-militaristic, anti-nazi and would have been one of the best Monarchs we could have had. In fact the Resistance against Hitler with such famous people as Carl Friedrich Goerdeler, Paul Loebe and other wanted Louis Ferdinand as Kaiser and King of Prussia after a Coup d'etat.

And least, please, not in this forum, do not tell me that when speaking of a modern German Monarch there was only the choice between "dictatorship and living democracy". It is sad enough that todays reporters do not know that there is no contradiction in monarchy and democracy.

Not being restricted to giving my arguments in English I could even be more eloquent to say why even because of the Prussian history Prince Georg Friedrich - besides that of the perspective of legitimism - has all the right of the claim the throne, which he actually does not even want.

Concerning Your statement of the "most ruthless and aggressive family", especially for modern times, I want to add the name of Prince Louis Ferdinand, the grandfather of Prince Georg Friedrich, as the foremost example of the family to the contrary. Prince Louis Ferdinand was a cosmopolit, absolute anti-militaristic, anti-nazi and would have been one of the best Monarchs we could have had. In fact the Resistance against Hitler with such famous people as Carl Friedrich Goerdeler, Paul Loebe and other wanted Louis Ferdinand as Kaiser and King of Prussia after a Coup d'etat.

I did not talk about the family after 1918. But if you read certain memoirs of members of the Prussian RF (like: "Ich war eine preussische Königstochter" by Wilhelmine of Prussia you'll see certain patterns of behaviour when it came to family and subjects alike that makes at least me wonder about the approach that again a member of that family should represent Germany.

I'm still not sure on her dress, I can't tell if it's extremely hideous or extremely modern and beautiful! The wedding was very nice and very well planned as one can see! I was so happy to see the Duke and Duchess of Braganca there! It seems she wore the hat she wore to her daughters christening, talk about recycling!!! I hope she wore a different tiara than the one she wore in Monaco, I can't wait to see pictures of her tonight!

LOL! Exactly!

And this is why I love royal wedding so much. They're the only place where dowdy, ill-fitting, and WTF fashion statements somehow still appear completely regal.

I do like what the designer said about his inspiration for the dress (flowing water) and it comes though on the train and veil, which are quite lovely, but I'm not sure about the front. It manages to be too edgy and weirdly traditional at the same time. It also reminds me of Queen Rania's gown.

I did not talk about the family after 1918. But if you read certain memoirs of members of the Prussian RF (like: "Ich war eine preussische Königstochter" by Wilhelmine of Prussia you'll see certain patterns of behaviour when it came to family and subjects alike that makes at least me wonder about the approach that again a member of that family should represent Germany.

Were you speaking of Frederick William I? While your previous comment made me shrug, this one made me laugh. One single person's character can never define a nation, not even his/her own family. Aggressive persons can be found anywhere and in any period of time, but we never blame there descendants for having such ancestors. Do not be deceived by stereotypes.

Most brides wear their dream wedding gown on their very special day. Often the bride has planned this day since being a young girl. For someone to be so rude and using a language that has absolutely no place here is indeed very sad. No need to use royal wedding discussion boards to unleash your own issues. There are plenty of other websites where your language will fit in just right.

Pam Anderson wore a bikini on her wedding day. A bikini! I have no doubt Pam was very happy, but I'm still going to mock Pam for that choice of "gown."

And maybe if you read my post more closely, you would note I actually paid Sophie several compliments, and nor am I going to censor my opinion just because you seem to think nobody should be able to say their honest opinion about how a bride looks on her wedding day. You are neither a mod nor the Official Royal Wedding Fashion Police, therefore I will continue to speak my mind as I see fit.

Were you speaking of Frederick William I? While your previous comment made me shrug, this one made me laugh. One single person's character can never define a nation, not even his/her own family. Aggressive persons can be found anywhere and in any period of time, but we never blame there descendants for having such ancestors. Do not be deceived by stereotypes.

It is just one memoir that I named as an example. The Prussian RF certainly was not a happy family and the individuals of that family didn't count much, were they daughters, sons or wifes. And that shows in their memoirs - and the reasons for that.

As for the political individual - just look at the history of the rise of Prussia to become the leading nation of Germany at all costs: successful but ruthless. Ponder the reasoning why the king of Prussia did not become German emperor in 1948 - he did not want a crown offered by the people's representatives...

And I don't blame Georg Friedrich for his ancestors. I just don't want a Prussian Hohenzollern as Head of my State.

You can find the discussion about the title in the forum of non reigning families - german and austrian families.

Sophie was a Serene Highness until her wedding and now she is at least a Royal highness like the other prussians. It's under discussion if Georg ( and so Sophie) is also an imperial highness.
All princes and princesses of the prussian were always royal hignesses, even in imperial times. Only the crown prince couple had the title imperial and royal highness, because the Imperor was just elected.
The last real imperial highness was his grandfather Louis Ferdinand, because he became head of the house and was born before the monarchy was abolished.
Actually Georg shouldn't be imperial highness anymore, but some people are so polite to call him like that.

That's just a little explanation - please let's stay at the topic WEDDING.

Thank you Iceflower for these photographs. It was a lovely wedding. Prince Geprge Friedrich was so very handsome whilst Princess Sophie von Isenburg was absolutely beautiful. A very classic and elegant bride. They both look so very happy together.

I'm sorry if the question has been answered, I did not have the time to go through all the thread. Did any of the Hannover show up? Prince Ernst August, or one of his sons???
I think they are related, EA paternal granmother was daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm (II I think)

Did any of the Hannover show up? Prince Ernst August, or one of his sons???

Not that I'm aware of. I've seen all the photos, etc. EA wasn't there, and his wife Princess Caroline certainly wasn't there. I'm not sure I recognize EA's sons on sight, but I don't remember seeing the Hanover name at all.

First off, I would like to extend my congratulations to their I&R Highnesses. May they have a long, loving, and happy marriage.

Second, please do not kill me, but this was one of the WORST dressed royal or non-royal weddings I have ever seen. I am sorry, but most of these women looked terrible.

Now, before everyone goes off on me about fashion, Europeans, etc., it is the bride's day, and to try and pull off outfits, shoes, hair (Who was that?? Morticia Adams with the long, black hair?!?!?). Think about your outfits and whose special day it is.

I thought Sophie looked lovely. The gown, per se, may not be my style, but was edgy and daring and she looked radiant as a bride.

I thought Sophie looked lovery. The gown, per se, may not be my style, but was edgy and daring and she looked radiant as a bride.

I'm picturing it sans bolero jacket-train, with a new Order of the Something, the Prussian Meander tiara, and other assorted diamonds and she's looking very regal (and somewhat similar to CPss Letizia).