The Rise and Fall of Kanye West: Illuminati Superstar

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. -Proverbs 16:18.

“I’m just trying to say the way school need teachers The way Kathie Lee needed Regis- that’s the way I need Jesus” (Jesus Walks, 2006)

“I got the Jesus on a chain, man that don’t mean s–” (Put On, 2008)

Kanye West has been one of the biggest superstars of the past decade for his rapping and music production for his mentor and boss Jay-Z. And he has also been one of the biggest Illuminati entertainers over that same time span promoting Satanic symbolism, mystery religions, materialism and sinful rebellion against God in that same time span. This article will show Kanye’s descent from more subtle symbolism to outright Illuminati satanic promotion.

As Beginning and End has detailed, the main goals of those involved in the Occult or New Age is the attainment of immortality or godhood. Much of the rituals in Freemasonry and various occult practices reflect this. And thus belief systems that make man a god are very essential. Jay-Z’s track Izzo (Hova), produced by Kanye West, represented Kanye’s coming out party as it was his first appearance in a rap video. The song, which is a tribute to Jay-Z’s nickname, “Jay-Hova” is an obvious blasphemous swipe at the God of the Bible.

And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. – Exodus 6:2-3.

The Lord goes by many names in the Bible, most being titles of respect and deference. But Jehovah is a name that God clearly acknowledges as His. Jay-Z has adopted this moniker and Kanye’s song celebrating the title.

When Kanye debuted his own first album, the influence of his Christian upbringing was still apparent, but in a mixed way. He released the song Jesus Walks, about struggles with sin and the desires to glorify God in his music. For many entertainers who come from a childhood church upbringing, this is an early challenge in entering a mostly satanic music industry. Just as Katy Perry, who started out as a contemporary Christian singer soon “sold her soul to the devil” and started making pop music that focused on promoting her over the top sexuality and raunchy image, West too let his ego, immense pride and desire for fame take over. In 2006, West took blasphemy to another level by appearing on the cover of Rolling Stone mocking the crucifixion of Jesus Christ:

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. – Galatians 6:7.

As we covered in our article on entertainers using the title “I AM” to take God’s name, Kanye’s blasphemy here showed his lack of respect for Christianity and Jesus while also showing his shameless obsession with fame, controversy and above all money. The Bible says of blasphemy:

Mocking Jesus Christ’s crucifixion, or attempting to make one’s life the same thing, is an insult to God and a major sin.

Pride And Arrogance – The Sin of Satan

Kanye has become infamous for his arrogance and pride.

“I realize that my place and position in history is that I will go down as the voice of this generation, of this decade, I will be the loudest voice,” he said in an interview on Wednesday. “It’s me settling into that position of just really accepting that it’s one thing to say you want to do it and it’s another thing to really end up being like Michael Jordan.” — Kanye West (source).Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. – 1 Timothy 3:6.

Kanye is renowned for his arrogance, pride and self-promotion. He is perhaps the only artist in history rush the stage at several awards shows when he was not named the winner. The danger in his attitude is that it is based on the idea that money and “talent” justifies any behavior. In the past, a man’s character and morals were once the measure of who he was or at least put accomplishments in perspective. But as society moves from Godly values and embraces Satan’s system, pride and arrogance are now justified if a person is wealthy or famous.

To no surprise it is pride that is actually the first sin recorded in the Bible. Before Adam and Eve, it was Satan, who sinned and led an angelic rebellion against The Lord. The Bible says of Satan that: “Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.”(Ezekiel 28:17). Because of his beauty and “natural talents” Satan, then Lucifer, was filled with pride and then foolishly plotted against God.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. –Isaiah 14:12-15.

Satan wanted the position of God. He wanted to rule all over all of the angels or “stars of God.” He wanted to “be like the most High.” And that plan has not changed today. Satan’s endgame is to try and usurp God and ruin all of His plans for humanity, which is to save us. By luring people into sin, keeping them from the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and deceiving them into following one of his many false religions, Satan can keep the unsaved sinner under his influence.

Pride pulls a person away from God. As the Bible details, sin is a process. The more someone falls into sinful rebellion against God, the less Godly influence will be in their life. Romans explains that God makes His presence known in the hearts of all people.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;. – Romans 2:14-15.

The human conscience is proof of God’s existence in one’s life. Even without reading the Bible, people have an inner sense of right and wrong. But as sin creeps more and more into a person’s life and they willingly embrace it, the conscience becomes “seared” or numb to sin and soon God’s influence will leave and Satan’s will fill the void.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,” – Romans 2:21-22.

At the 1:00 mark in the video below, Kanye proclaims that he should be in the Bible and uses the statement to mock Christianity once again:

This from the same artist who said he longed to hear people sing Jesus’ name in nightclubs. As the downward spiral of sin continues, the soul of the person in rebellion will embrace evil and Satan’s agenda.

Illuminati Symbolism

Kanye poses in his “Workout Plan” video with one of the many featured Baphomet stars.

“I had a dream I can buy my way to heaven When I awoke, I spent that on a necklace. I told God I’d be back in a second,” – (Can’t Tell Me Nothing)

Kanye’s videos and performances have been full of Illuminati satanic symbolism and references for years. In the video for Workout Plan (the video can be seen here), there are satanic pentagrams featured throughout.

Below is a shot from his video for Amazing.

Kanye sporting a Baphomet-pentagram pendant.

Power

Kanye West standing between Masonic pillars while wearing necklace with the Egyptian god Horus.

In one of his most occult videos to date, Kanye collaborated with Marco Brambilla, for his video for his song Power. This video is full of Freemason/Illuminati symbolism. Marco Brambilla, the video’s director, is known for his “video tableau” technique where he uses a continual moving camera shot to show images and tell a story (more on him below). In this video the main message is about illumination, the quest for godhood and immortality that drives those involved in the occult, New Age or mystery religions – where man becomes a god.

The opening shot is a closeup of Kanye with his eyes illuminated in dark surroundings. He has pillars on either side of him in a manner similar to the symbol of freemasonry:

A Masonic temple with the pillars of Boaz and Jachin.

These pillars, named Boaz and Jachin are revered in Freemasonry and esoteric circles. But they originate in the Bible. The two pillars were built as part of the instructions given to King Solomon from God for the construction of the temple of Israel in the Old Testament.

For he cast two pillars of brass, of eighteen cubits high apiece: and a line of twelve cubits did compass either of them about. And he made two chapiters of molten brass, to set upon the tops of the pillars: the height of the one chapiter was five cubits, and the height of the other chapiter was five cubits: And nets of checker work, and wreaths of chain work, for the chapiters which were upon the top of the pillars; seven for the one chapiter, and seven for the other chapiter. And he made the pillars, and two rows round about upon the one network, to cover the chapiters that were upon the top, with pomegranates: and so did he for the other chapiter. And the chapiters that were upon the top of the pillars were of lily work in the porch, four cubits. And the chapiters upon the two pillars had pomegranates also above, over against the belly which was by the network: and the pomegranates were two hundred in rows round about upon the other chapiter. And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin: and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz. – 1 Kings 7:15-21.

The temple of Solomon was the designated place where the worship of God was centered. It was where the Ark of the Covenant was to be placed and thus the sole location where man could commune with God. God literally manifested His presence on Earth in this temple which He designed. This is why it is so important to Freemasonry. Like most occult practices, it recognizes that the Bible is a supernatural book. The temple instructions came from God and as such it’s construction contains divine properties. Occult philosopher Manly P. Hall, considered to be one of the greatest Freemasons of all time, wrote in the Secret Teachings of All Ages:

“In the splendor of mental and spiritual illumination, the High Priest stood between the pillars as a mute witness to the perfect vitrue of equilibrium– that hypothetical point equidistant from all extremes. He thus personified the divine nature of man in the midst of his compound constitution — the mysterious Pythagorean Monad in the presence of the Duad. On one side towered the stupendous column of the intellect; on the other, on the other the brazen pillar of the flesh. Midway between these two stands the glorified wiseman, but he cannot reach this high estate without first suffering on the cross by joining these two pillars together.” — Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. 99.

What is being said here is that the pillars represent heavenly realm and the earthly realm. And it by the fusion of opposites that man becomes illuminated and becomes the god-man. Of course this is a distortion of the purpose of the temple. The temple was a place for man to worship God and make atonement for sin, not to become God. But Satan, as expressed in his 5-point plan of rebellion, wants to be God and offer that same delusion to humanity. So the Biblical true purpose is distorted to represent the “pathway to immortality.” This is what these pillars represent in the occult.

And the joining of the spiritual realm with the earthly – also referred to as “as above, so below” took place when Satanic fallen angels came to Earth and took human women as wives to bear children. These Nephilim giant offspring were the “men of renown” and the hybrid god–men before and after the flood. This is why those in the occult express this “great secret” by showing opposites whether it be the sun and the moon, a black image with a matching white image or other symbols that embody this principle. The symbols conceal the great desire to commune with the “hierarchy” — the angelic realm once again and obtain eternal life. (B&E: An article on “The Fusion of Opposites: The Great Secret of Freemasonry and the Occult” is coming soon). Thus when we see Kanye between the pillars, he is supposed to be the initiate who is becoming illuminated into godhood.

Egyptian Symbolism

The video is full of Egyptian Mystery Religion symbolism.

From this shot it is clear that the Egyptian mystery religions are being featured. He stands positioned in a manner similar to a famous ancient Egyptian relief of the goddess Isis:

In the Illuminati religions, Isis and goddess worship is crucial. Going back centuries, the goddess Isis has been revered in many different by cultures by different names. And performances were a key way of worshiping these fallen angelic or demonic beings:

In all cities of the ancient world were temples for public worship and offering. In every community also were philosophers and mystics, deeply versed in Nature’s lore. These individuals were usually banded together, forming seclusive philosophic and religious schools. The more important of these groups were known as the Mysteries. Many of the great minds of antiquity were initiated into these secret fraternities by strange and mysterious rites, some of which were extremely cruel. Alexander Wilder defines the Mysteries as “Sacred dramas performed at stated periods.The most celebrated were those of Isis, Sabazius, Cybele, and Eleusis.” After being admitted, the initiates were instructed in the secret wisdom which had been preserved for ages. Plato, an initiate of one of these sacred orders, was severely criticized because in his writings he revealed to the public many of the secret philosophic principles of the Mysteries.
Every pagan nation had (and has) not only its state religion, but another into which the philosophic elect alone have gained entrance. Many of these ancient cults vanished from the earth without revealing their secrets, but a few have survived the test of ages and their mysterious symbols are still preserved. Much of the ritualism of Freemasonry is based on the trials to which candidates were subjected by the ancient hierophants before the keys of wisdom were entrusted to them. (“The Secret Teaching of All Ages”, p. 21-22)

Historians note that Isis is just another name for Semiramis, the wife of the Babylonian King Nimrod, founder of the city of Babylon, the leader of the Tower of Babel rebellion and promoter of the mystery religions after the flood of Genesis Chapter 6. Nimrod was the first murderer and conqueror after the flood recorded in the Bible. His name which means “let us rebel” was indicative of his nature as he sought to build a tower that could reach Heaven. Once again, accessing the Heavenly realm without God is always the goal of those minions of Satan at the highest levels. After their death both Nimrod and his wife were deified among the many nations they conquered. In Egypt, Nimrod was Osiris. Bible scholar Peter Goodgame, in his online book, “The Giza Discovery” explains:

“Nimrod was known in Egypt as King Narmer, who was later deified as the god Osiris, the Lord of the Underworld.” (source)

The significance of this is that once again the Bible addresses these pagan “gods” and their religions. Isis, who was later known as “the Queen of Heaven” is mentioned again later in the book of Jeremiah after many of the Israelites started to worship her:

Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? — Jeremiah 7:17-19.

The worship of the dead, fallen angels and demons is an abomination. But Satan has taken this sinful practice as part of his seduction of humanity. And through videos and concerts, sacred dramas are still being practiced today, whether the artist is aware of it or not.

Kanye also wears a necklace with the symbol for Horus, the son of Osiris/Nimrod who was believed to be the reincarnation of his dead father. The All-Seeing Eye, one of the most well-known occult symbols, is known as the All-Seeing Eye of Horus, the resurrected god. Taamuz, the son of Nimrod, was also deified in the Bible. Some of the ancient Israelites in the Bible worshiped him when they were again falling into sin in the book of Ezekiel:

Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do. Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD’s house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. — Ezekiel 8:12-14.

The Bible again instead of ignoring or being a spin off of these mystery religions, condemns them. And the false god Tammuz is called out by name (note that the “weeping for Tammuz” which lasted for 40 days is still practiced today as the Roman Catholic holiday of Lent). Again, we see the cycle of sin in the heart of a person. It can embolden someone in rebellion to the point that Israelite women were even in the temple of God worshiping a false god.

The Sword of Damocles

Above Kanye’s head is a sword which is a reference to the tale of the sword of Damocles, a fable from ancient Roman history about a man who trades places with King Dionysus to live as “King for a day” while on the throne, the courtier gets to enjoy the immense wealth, pleasures and hedonistic life of a king but always has a sword hanging by a horse’s hair over his head to reflect the fact that the king is always in danger. The obvious message here is that Kanye is “the King.”

As Above So Below

‘As Above, So Below’ represents the fusion of opposites.

In this wider shot we see more of the fusion of opposites as there are certain women who are right side up with others upside down. This again is commonly used symbolism of the “duality” or “fusion” of the heavenly and spiritual realm. Eliphas Levi, a Freemason, occultist and one of the main contributors to the practice of Kabbalah, is the author of the infamous Baphomet drawing. But here is another famous drawing he made illustrating this concept:

The original drawing of the Baphomet.

Notice this being represents opposites. It is part human, part beast. One hand points up, the other down. It is has the moon with light on one side and a dark, eclipsed moon on the other. It has both male and female parts (again referencing the ‘sons of God and the daughters of men’). All of this represents the union of Heaven and Earth, god and man, in one being. Levi also made a lesser known drawing that reflects the same concept. Like the image from Kanye’s video the idea of fusion of opposites is fully represented.

This seal made by Eliphas Levi is full of occult symbolism.

The Initiation

Two angelic beings raise their swords over Kanye for him to die to be “reborn” as the god-man. This is represented freemasonry by the first degree initiation where the initiate must sit in a coffin symbolizing their death and rebirth.

The shape of the image also fits in the shape of Freemasonry’s main symbols of the compass and square (which also represent the fusion of opposites).

The square and compass represent the male and female union of opposites.

For those who think this may be “reading too much” into things or that “this is just a music video!” look at the recent commercial done by Marco Brambilla, the ‘Power’ video director, that currently airs on Australian TV and features Kanye West. It is chock full of Illuminati symbolism. From the opening seconds of the video, there is a depiction of hell with an image of Jesus on the cross, dead in the lower right hand corner.

And again Kanye is depicted between the Masonic pillars. On the steps are hip hop icons Biggie Smalls and Tupac, who apparently died too early before making the full initiation. However Kanye is illuminated and one step from Heaven, as the god-man. The message is clear: the ad is against Jesus and for humanity attaining godhood on their own.

Runaway

The angel falls from Heaven just as Lucifer does in the Bible.

Kanye’s video for Runaway continued the same level of symbolism. The video, which was actually a 34-minute film, is centered on the story of an angel literally falling from Heaven, whom Kanye then meets and falls in love with.

“It’s the story of a phoenix fallen to Earth, and I make her my girlfriend, and people discriminate against her and eventually she has to burn herself alive and go back to her world,” he told us. “I’ve been feeling the idea of the phoenix. It’s been in my heart for a while. It’s maybe parallel to my career. .. like me and (Lady) Gaga talked about it when we were going to tour.”- Kanye West on his inspiration for the film Runaway. (source) and (source).

“Among the ancients a fabulous bird called the Phoenix is described by early writers such as Clement, Herodotus, and Pliny; in size and shape it resembled the eagle, but with certain differences. The body of the Phoenix is one covered with glossy purple feathers and the plumes in its tail are alternately blue and red. The head of the bird is light in color, and about its neck is a circlet of golden plumage. At the back of its back the Phoenix has a crest of feathers of brilliant color. Only one of these birds was supposed to live at a time, with its home in the distant parts of Arabia, in a nest of frankincense and myrrh. The Phoenix, it is said, lives for 500 years, and at its death its body opens and the new born Phoenix emerges. Because of this symbolism, the Phoenix is generally regarded as representing immortality and resurrection.” [Manly P. Hall, The Secret Destiny of America , 1958, p. 176-77;

Notice the reference to “frankincense and myrrh” the same items brought by the Wise Men to Jesus as a baby as gifts to the Messiah who would be a priest for His people (hence the frankincense) but also suffer death (hence the myrrh, which was used as part of funeral dressing of the dead). But instead of this being a reference to Jesus, it is a reference to the False Messiah, the Antichrist.

The Antichrist, the satanically empowered seed of Satan, will be the global ruler over the world in the final years before the Second Coming of Christ. And he is the figure that the Illuminati, the order of fallen angels, demons are awaiting because at the time of his arrival, known as the Day of The Lord or Great Tribulation in Scripture, these beings will once again return to Earth and occult power will be at its peak. The Bible says the Antichrist will not only ruler over the nations of the world but that he will have supernatural power:

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. – Revelation 13:4-8.

The Antichrist will appear to be invincible. He will be a leader the world wants and worships. But what truly makes him appear to be divine is that he will die and come back from the dead:

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. -Revelation 13:3.

“All symbols have their origin in something tangible, and the Phoenix is one sign of the secret orders of the ancient world, and of the initiate of those orders, for it was common to refer to one who had been accepted into the temples as a man twice-born, or re-born. Wisdom confers a new life, and those who become wise are born again .” [Hall, Ibid.; Emphasis added]

“The Phoenix … is believed to be a divine bird going back to Egypt … This Phoenix destroys itself in flames and then rises from the ashes. Most occultists believe that the Phoenix is a symbol of Lucifer who was cast down in flames and who they think will one day rise triumphant. This, of course, also relates to the rising of Hiram Abiff, the Masonic ‘christ’.” [Dr. C. Burns, Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated , p. 123]

The Antichrist is going to recover from a mortal wound and this “resurrection” will be a part of the Great Delusion the Earth will experience: as they will believe that Satan’s servant is Christ and God. And it is after returning from death that he will declare that he is god. Humanity will see him as the key to immortality and godhood. The fallen angels, kicked out of Heaven for good, along with the angels who are locked in the bottomless pit will be released to support the Antichrist’s kingdom. Except for those who come to believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, the rest of the entire planet will be tricked. And this is the symbolism promoted in the video for runaway. Do not be deceived.

Kanye befriending the Fallen angel.

Soon the fallen angel performs a seductive dance upon hearing Kanye’ is falling in love (again we see the recurring theme of Genesis 6 and angel/human illicit relations).

During this scene Kanye’s song, “Devil In A New Dress” plays in the background. Here are some of the lyrics:

Uh put your hands to the constellations, they way you look should be a sin, you my sensation, I know I’m preaching to the congregation, we love Jesus but you done learned a lot from Satan, Satan, Satan, Satan, I mean a n– did a lot of waiting, we aint married but tonight I need some consummation, may the Lord forgive us, may the gods be with us, in that magic hour I seen good christians make rash decisions, oh she do it, what happened to Religion?,

Worshiping of the stars, which are symbolic for angels, is forbidden in the Bible. The song then proceeds to praise the devil and urge fornication with blatant disrespect to God and Christianity.

Here is the fallen angel, now “resurrected” back in its glory.

The Phoenix resurrects from the ashes.

“Morals and Dogma”, one of the principle books on Freemasonic philosophy and occult mysteries has a double headed phoenix on the cover, with the heads facing in opposite directions but in one body, again representing the fusion of opposites and the occult rebirth that leads to immortality.

In the entire book of Morals and Dogma, Pike never explains this great secret. Neither does Manly Hall in his writings. But now the word is out. As Manly Hall writes regarding the mystery of the phoenix:

“The phoenix is the most celebrated of all the symbolic creatures fabricated by the ancient Mysteries for the purpose of concealing the great truths of esoteric philosophy.” – Secret Teachings of All Ages, p. 89-90.

And here is Kanye wearing the double headed phoenix symbol:

Watch the Throne — The Quest to Be God

The album cover above captures all of the symbolism once again. The steps of illumination, the pillars on either side of throne and then a seat with the double headed phoenix on it. The album’s lyrics are full of odes to all things high-fashion, high society and high wealth. The rappers continuously brag about their expensive possessions and lavish lifestyles. By their account, they are on top of the world. But success in this world never comes for free. Satan always requires a price. Even when he offered Jesus a “deal with the devil”:

And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. — Luke 4:5-8.

Jesus, during the time of His temptation in the “in the wild”, was shown most likely by supernatural means the kingdoms of the world which Satan explained had been “delivered” to him. For the time being Satan has been given limited authority in this world and can offer material success to those who serve him. And Kanye relishes in all the material success he has achieved to the point that he has no respect for any authority. Jay-Z (who will also be covered in a forthcoming article “Decoding Jay-Z”) says in their song, No Church In The Wild:

Jesus was a carpenter, Yeezy [Kanye], laid beats Hova flow the Holy Ghost, get the hell up out your seats Preach

Once again these artists continue to bring their lyrics back to Christianity and attacking Jesus. Here Jesus is called “a carpenter” (ignoring that in Christianity He is the Son of God) and equates His work with Kanye’s music production (or implies that Kanye is doing greater things). Jay-Z then compares Himself to the Holy Ghost. This is the end result of the sin cycle, when outright blasphemy is embraced. And the fans of these artists, who hang on every new song release, repeat these songs and their blasphemous words over and over again, filling themselves with Satanic influence and removing God’s. Are you one of them?

What’s a mob to a king? What’s a king to a god? What’s a god to a non-believer? Who don’t believe in anything?

The point is that in the jungle or high competition, big money entertainment, there is no church. There is no time for the Bible and God’s ways. Kanye confirms this is in his verse:

We formed a new religion No sins as long as there’s permission’

Here is the cover image for Kanye’s newest song:

Did Moses not part the water with the cane Did strippers not make an arc when I made it rain Did Yeezy not get signed by Hov and Dame Ran to Jacob’s and made the new Jesus Chains In Jesus name, let the choir say I’m on fire ayy,

Kanye in the ‘Sensual’ video with a Baphomet pentagram over his one eye.

Most recently, Kanye also worked in a video to launch 25 Magazine. In the video (which will not be linked to as it has nudity and very disturbing images), which is full of Satanic symbolism, Kanye recites lines from the book Dante’s Inferno:

“Through me, the way into the suffering city, Through me, the way to everlasting pain, Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.”

This passage is found in Canto III: the Gates of Hell. The video then goes to a series of images, including a naked woman, with her arms outstretched as if she is on a cross, wearing a crown of thorns, in clear mockery of the crucifixion, sado-masochistic fetish photos and other extremely disturbing images.

This Baphomet-inspired image is flashed for a brief moment.

As explained in our article on the satanic influence of Tyler the Creator and Odd Future, society has to be conditioned to disrespect God, the Bible and Jesus Christ as part of the preparation for the Antichrist. He will be the ultimate blasphemer against God. But he will reveal his true intentions and declare himself god and demand worship under penalty of death. And although this generation may not live to see that come to pass the stakes today are no different. There is a war taking place and the prize is the souls of humanity. Satan and his minions are influencing society to reject God and a chance for salvation in favor of sinful pleasures and the occult. Their spirit is influencing pop culture to spread this to the masses. And many in society are running, not walking, to join in. Do not be deceived. There is no middle ground.

[Protect] thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life. Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee. – Proverbs 4:23-24.

Rather than thinking “I know the truth about this music, so it won’t affect me” know the real truth – you are already affected. We have all fallen into sin. Without Jesus Christ, you are still in Satan’s plan because you are not going to Heaven. You do not have God’s Holy Spirit indwelling you. But that is why Jesus came to Earth and lives today. He is the true ladder between Heaven and Earth. He is the way to Oneness. And most importantly, He is the way to forgiveness of sins.

Jesus did not come to the world to show off. He did not come to boast and flaunt His “talents” over others (something entertainers do constantly to make their fans want to emulate them). He was humble and meek and came to Earth to give Himself for all people. By taking the punishment of crucifixion on the cross, He was able to pay for the sins of humanity. The book of Isaiah states:

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.- Isaiah 53:5-6.

This is what the real God has done for you. Because He loves you. And just as Jesus rose from the dead, so can any person be made alive eternally by believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God for the forgiveness of their sins. Let’s hope Kanye goes back to his roots and remembers this.

Reader Interactions

Comments

Whew! That’s so intense. I sometimes wonder why people like this have great wealth and fame. I take comfort in the fact that they are having theirs now, and we Christians will have ours later, and for all eternity!

All these pack on nonsense for fame and money! Kanye West, Rihanna, Jay-Z and as many that are in it already must remember that all that glitters is not gold and if the end of your soul slaughtered on the platter of serving the devil what then?

In total agreement with u I would so much rather be sitting beside my Lord in heaven for eternal life than to be living oh so wealthy down here on mans earth….this was deep and I already had a huge dislike for Kanye…this just makes my dislike for him worse but I will continue to pray for people like him even it seems he is too far gone!

THE MOST POWERFUL and GREATEST GIFT OF all that these celebrities have lost in their lives for Fame and Fortune is the meaning of TRUE LOVE AND COMPASSION to each other. It is sad that these celebrities will sign off their souls for EVIL while they are living here on earth but once these celebrities pass they will go down with the EVIL ONE who is only using all of these celebrities as tools. You see so many of these people that were born into Satanism and so desperate to get out of it. Then you see all these wanna be Celebrities giving their soul to Evil for a few years of FAME and FORTUNE while all along little by little depression later sets in. LISTEN YOU ALL turn away from the evil and RENOUNCE SATAN

“”The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?”

rather one should believe/trust in the Omniscient/ Omnipotent/ Omnipresent /Omnibenevolent Creator of all who saw our rebellion against Him yet became man and took our rightful punishment for that rebellion.

Jesus promises eternal life for all who trust in the sacrifice He made for us.

Well this what I say. As for all you Christian’s, you all should be ashamed of yourself’s, because the Lord Hate’s “Gossip” and talking about other’s. You can’t claim to be a brother in Christ and then talk about someone where Million’s can hear your voice. It is a very big sign of Disrespect. When I read what this web site has to say about Historian’s. well, even this web cite “Claim’s” that the Historian’s lived soon after the Death of Jesus Christ. So this web cite is sighting what Historian’s, say, when they were even around when Jesus Christ if he ever did Exist at all. there is no Document, you’ll ever find anywhere on the Internet where you can actually prove the real existence of Jesus Christ. Too the fact also, that still today, there are so many book’s of the Bible, that no one knows about, and a lot of the book’s of the Bible that refer’s to the “Dead Seas Scroll’s” they aren’t in the Bible. There are so many misinterpretations’ about the Bible, that even Bible Scholar’s have been proven to misinterpretation of the Holy Bible. the Bible is what you call a “Political Establishment for Social Control”, that’s all it was. You see, who ever made up the Bible, was to control people. With today Modern Science, we have the Technology to prove the existence of someone, a DNA text. We have US Archaeologist and “Not None” found any document that is a recording of Jesus Christ Existence. the Roman Empire that existed more than 2000 years ago, no one found jack. there were 100′s of Historian who lived during the existence of Jesus Christ and not one even mentioned anything about Jesus Christ. The Church all over America judge’s every single American, and Jesus and “GOD” doesn’t like when his people “Judge” that’s what you people are doing. Who cares if someone is making money!! It’s none of your business at all!! Why do you fret and pay attention to something that has nothing to do with you? To be a witness for the Lord Jesus is one thing, but for you to call someone the Devil or that person is up, because he is a Non-Believer then you who are slandering should be put in hell. Matthew 12:36 “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak” and
who are you to Judge: James 4:11 “Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge” Who made any of you to judge and misuse the name of the Lord? .To testify about Jesus, to teach other that the way of Jesus is Internal Life, not to Judge or slander someone, because you jealous because Kanye West gets more money and more pussy then you. You mutha here need to get a grip on your heads. It isn’t about Kanye West or someone rapping and making money. You need start worrying about your lives, and what you did good. You need to start worrying about how God is going to judge you. When we Judge other’s, you know dam well, God is going to judge us. All I can say, that it is depleted all in the Bible, that only good should come out of your mouth. Jesus died on the Cross for our sin’s, once and for all!! Jesus didn’t die on the cross for you to stand and talk about someone, because he is a non-believer. Who the do you think you are anyways? And stop putting up Jesus as a White Person, Jesus is from the Middle east, there wasn’t any white people in the Middle east eccept for Roman’s. Jesus is dark. When you put up a Picture of jesus Christ and you make him look white, that’s the art work of the Devil. How many White Jesus’s in US History??? 1700-2000 still have white Jesus in their Churches. that is a deception to Millions, who live in the USA from those dates and you white people still deceive other’s in your Judging and Slanders. All you people here, don’t go by a Bible. Live it and be it!! and all of you’s are not living by the truth, nothing bad or evil should ever come out of your mouth, less judging and slandering.

Stop talking all that trash, stop defending someone who is dong nothing but wrong. Why if they know there are bad signs out there they keep on doing in it. I do believe that they do all kind of stuff to become famous, to be rich. Beyonce, Jay z, Rihanna, and Kanye , they are all into that crap.

I encourage you to come to the lord. I prefer to be a poor dude and be beside my lord. You can tell that all that money is nothing clean. There is a lot behind all these money.

Starting from now I will stop downloading music from these individuals

Billy the bible says that you judge a tree by the fruit it bares. these people who sold their souls for fame and fortune here on this earth will go to hell if they do not repent and turn from their sins. and that is not a Christian judging, because if what is said backed up by the word of God then that is Gods word judging them, not the person quoting the scripture. those people as well as poor people will go to hell if they are not born again and repent of their sins. we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. you me poor rich, no sin is greater than another in the Lords eyes….. and if your right, and there is no God as you said, then what did it hurt you for another’s belief? and what did it hurt them to believe in it? but if you are wrong my friend, then you will be in hell with the rest of them. is that a chance your willing to take? if so, I cry out for your soul and I will be praying for you.

Billy wow very precise and exact and I agree with what you wrote and Rebecca being a Practising Buddhist I respect evryone from all all beliefs/races/sexuality and we do not judge anyone and are encouraged to have dialogue with people of all faiths but I do not agree with your view and I certainly wouldn’t say if you are wrong then you will be hell with the rest of them WRONG

I just watched that YouTube video of Kanye talking about being in the Bible a few weeks ago, and now I see this article. It’s really in depth. I’ve learned so much in such a short time. I actually have a few of his albums and I bought The Throne album I feel so guilty. Sometimes in music you’re so caught up in the beats that you miss what’s really being said. Since discovering this site I’m more selective to what I listen too. It seems like every artist I’ve ever liked isfeatured on this site. I’m so disappointed but I’m glad I am no longer blind to it!

that the sad part of it Xino, he knows that God is real, he and a lot of others are from a Christian background, but turned away he doesn’t allow the corporation to include anything, he could stop it if he wanted too, they don’t make up his lyrics, he does, and openly sings them. its really sad/

Great article, wow! You’ve put some thought into this, great juxtaposition of Biblical references to Kanye. He seems to be following right down that same path that many in the entertainment industry do (e.g. Britney Spears, Madonna, Rihanna, etc.). Just take a look at Dave Chappelle, he was offered the deal with the devil and he refused and just dipped. That’s a man who is humble, right and true to himself.

Also, just as a little extra something to throw onto this article, going back to Isaiah 14:12-15, the quote where it says “Lucifer, son of the morning” is the prominent part of the hook heard on Jay-Z’s “Lucifer” from his black album, and the producer is none other than Kanyeezy West. I’ve been covering a lot of Rihanna stuff lately, she seems to be headed down that same dark path.

Thanks very much. I’m glad you enjoyed the article. And you’re right about Dave Chapelle. He is one of the very few stars out there who was able to get out of Hollywood before going completely into darkness. Who knows what he saw that would be so disturbing to him that he would walk away from $50M?

And another good point about the Lucifer track. BTW- it is the No. 10 song on the Black Album and
“99 Problems” is the No. 9 song so when you read the album jacket is says ” 9 99 Problems” which seems to be a subtle Mark of the Beast reference as well. Rihanna is well down that path. Very sad but true.

BTW I’ve been on your site before. You’ve got some good info. God bless.

We are currently in the dark ages. What people don’t realize is that the religions of today have been remixed. It is all solar worship. But we have lost the science behind it and all you have is dogma. I think a lot of these artist are shown thing about the origin of their belief systems through secret societies.

You have to remember that at one point the Vatican (House of Saturn) would kill people who were free thinkers. So secret societies were created so people could speak freely. The farther you go up in the societies the more you learned that everything you had been taught was a lie.

But now they have moved past their usefulness and become the thing they were trying to fight.

Pretty deep article here. I will admit to thinking the Masonic Compass imagery is a bit far fetched- But that’s just me… There’s enough other stuff there to support the Masonic influence without it!

This song actually reminds me a lot of Rick Ross’ “Holy Ghost.” As a matter of fact, because of the combination of Rick Ross, Jay-Z and Kanye, (among others), going psycho, I ended up writing a song answering their charges. The hook to that song reads:

“Man, I talk to the Holy Ghost every day
“And never has He ever even mentioned your name
“We talkin’ while I’m walkin’ – He ain’t impressed with fame
“He provides for those that’s His, He remains the same
“His provision never comes hand in hand with drama
“Yet every song I hear mentions baby mamas
“So are ya sure it’s tha Holy Ghost, cuz I think you’re lost
“The Holy Ghost ain’t ya homeboy, man- He’s the BOSS”

In another line, which also references “Watch The Throne” as well as “Holy Ghost”:

“Say ya talk to tha Holy Ghost, but when it’s all over
“I think you’ll find it was ya BluTooth and tha voice of J-Hova.”

I personally find it appalling how often the secular world gets away with stuff like this, and no one within the Christian community bothers to step up and say in no uncertain terms, “you’re dead wrong.” Not to minimize what you’re doing here, BaE, but a member of the music community standing up to another member carries a great deal more weight than does, say, a blogger to a musician.

Nice verse my man. I love the last punchline about bluetooth and Hova.

And I take no offense to your comments, Christian rappers/Holy Hip Hop artists should be saying something about this but they have been dead silent on it (which is part of the reason that there have been no mention of these artists on this website). With the exception of Bizzle (who I support btw – just saying so people out there know there is actually non-hymnal music that I like and listen to), who has done 95% of the heavy lifting in exposing satanism in hip hop and pointing listeners to Jesus Christ as the true answer to our ills, no one is saying a word. And it all comes back to money. These artists are on “Christian labels” that are just under a major music company’s umbrella. So at that point they are compromised and muzzled.

Not only that many of these artists perform with and endorse these rappers (LeCrae being a major example as he routinely pays homage to some of the most sin-promoting, satanic rappers in the industry). I have even heard a clip on Youtube of major Christian rappers giving props to Three Six Mafia, other artists praising Emininem. It’s incredibly sad. They do have bigger weight than a blog and more influence. And they should be using it in a manner of love towards these secular artists to contend for the faith once given to the saints. But at the end of the day you cannot serve God and mammon.

I encourage you to listen to a lot of the lampmode artist. Their music and lyrics are of sound doctrine!! They do all profess to be of the Calvinist thought and that does come out in their lyrics sometimes, which is a whole other ball of wax we could get into, but they great to listen to. One of the artist coined the phrase “lyrical theology”. He goes by the name of shai linne “the lower case emcee”. Some other artists on the label are:

Timothy Brindle (great debut album called “the great awakening”
shai linne (the solus Christus project album was in my car playing for years)
Steven the levite (takes a few times to start feelin his music but once you do he’s legit)

Those are just a few artists on their label. Just so you know I am in no way affiliated with lampmode. Just came across your site today and read this article, saw your post and wanted to pass along some Godly music to you brother.

Christian rapper cant speak out coz they under the spirit of mammon 2. All secular labels are run by the spirit of mammon. The spirit of compromise is evident towards the love of money. The entire entertainment world is run by mammon. The more we consume this music, we eat what has been offored to gods.a

you people need to wake up and pull your bibles out off your a— there is no god he dosent exist . if he did exist and suposedly love all humans then why do babies die every day there is no god or if there was hes either dead or dosent care about us

Your comment is based off of pure emotion. You see evil manifesting itself and blindly conclude there is no God. But how do you know there is know God? To do that, you’d have to know all things. You’d have to have seen all evidences to know there is no God. You cannot claim this, therefore, your atheism is illogical.

I hope this isn’t a double post. (computer problems). Peter, I have to agree and disagree with you, I am an atheist and I base it on my studies and other things that I will not get into here, however feelings and emotions have to be taken into account, for my atheism and for your christianity. Saying that god doesn’t exist bacause bad things happen, is saying that if good things happen it means there is a god. I don’t deal in definitives, meaning, I don’t know there is no god any more than a christian knows that there is. we are all presented with the same material, a christian chooses to believe through faith but has no imperical proof that there is a god, no way of proving it and no way, other than their feelings to back up their claims. An atheist receives the same data, we choose not to believe based on studies but at the end just like christians, we have to go off of our feelings. Just like you can’t prove there is a god I can’t prove that there isn’t, all We can do is follow our hearts and stand firm on our beliefs. A baby dying for a christian might be interpreted as a test of faith, for an atheist it’s just the natural process of life… it proves nothing either way. I am guilty of letting my emotions get in the way of my reasoning, I have allowed my passion for my belief to cloud my core belief that we are all entitled to our individual opinioin, I appologize to anyone I may have offended in any post on this website, sometimes I forget that just as I am firm on my atheism for my own personal reasons you are firm in your christianity for your own reasons and those reasons should be respected. I just wanted to clarify that both christianity and atheism are based on uncertainty, like I said, it’s impossible for you to prove there is a god, there is no proof, but on the same hand I can’t prove that thare isn’t a god, all we can do is present our best evidence and the rest IS BASED ON FEELINGS, for both groups, But making the claim that if there is a god and he loves us then why do babies die everyday is just not an educated statement, it is as you said, illogical, not because it’s based on feellings, So is christianity, but because it lacks intellectual value.

Welcome back to the site and I really and truly respect you for apologizing to the readers on this site. That is very mature of you. Getting to your specific points I do have some comments:

1) Your atheism is the same as our Christianity — I noticed you have said this in several threads now and I would completely disagree. You keep discussing “data” and who is either accepting or rejecting it. But there is one major piece of data you are leaving out that refutes your entire theory. LOVE. Do you love anyone in this world? Do you feel someone in this world loves you? If you answer yes, then you have just contradicted your entire theory on why we believe. You cannot quantify, measure, time or observe love. Yet billions of people, atheist and believer alike, feel that is 100% real. Notice we do not debate whether love is real, even though there is no empirical data to back it up? This is what Christians know that you don’t realize, comprehend or understand: the love of God. Notice that the most famous verse in the Bible says:

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” – John 3:16.

Notice it does not just say “loved” it says “so loved” to denote that the greatness and depth of God’s love. Now this is something that cannot be debated. No matter how much I write I could never “prove” you don’t love someone. Love is not a theory, it is real and ever-present in our lives. And for those who lack it, it is even more real! Because they spend their lives trying to find it. Never underestimate the presence of love in a Christian’s life. We feel more loved than a non-believer can comprehend. As for babies dying, wars, etc., these have no relation to a Bible-believing Christian because we know that we live in a cursed world that is doomed to be destroyed. Why? Because of the rejection of God’s way for Satan’s. So those arguments are always lacking because they ignore and deny human volition in our own destruction.

So let’s put your intellect and numerous degrees, awards and honorariums to the test: do you believe love is real and exists today?

Well, I really was trying to rectify another atheist comment that states “— there is no god he dosent exist . if he did exist and suposedly love all humans then why do babies die every day there is no god or if there was hes either dead or dosent care about us” I don’t believe that is a valid argument for denying the existence of god. As for you stating my atheism is the same as your christianity, I think you misinterpreted me, I am talking about the core belief system, as a christian you do not have any proof that there is a god, you have never seen him, heard him (in a literal sense) or otherwise received any type of physical confirmation of his existence… otherwise you would not need faith, as faith is believing even without proof. As an atheist I can go on delivering my data as you put it to refute the existence of god as you can deliver yours to quantify it… with me so far….. Now the point you missed is that as an atheist I don’t have any proof, physical proof that god does not exist, so just as you read the word and formulate your beliefs, develop your faith and decide to worship god, I read my data, formulate my non belief and decide not to worship or believe in god. Not saying both are the same, just saying that at the core of both of our decisions we take a step to believe or not believe without any proof, just information, now getting into a debate over whose information is true would be a never ending battle because again neither of us can prove beyond what we feel is the truth one way or the other. You can cite the bible, I can cite science, but you can only say you believe in god because you have faith in it, I can say I don’t believe because I believe in more logical explanations (to me, not saying your beliefs are of less merit).

Now regarding your statements about love, No I don’t believe love exists, I’ll explain. Love in the spiritual sense I believe to be a myth, in a physical level yes, there is a chemical reaction in the brain that causes dopamine (sorry if I misspelled that) and serotonin to be released after events like childbirth, sex, even holding hands with someone, etc. these chemical reactions create a bond, sometimes permanent, sometimes temporary, between humans, animals etc.

Now I have a wonderful wife whom I love dearly and who loves me, I can quantify that love by the actions we share, but we are both aware that the love we share is not spiritual or “meant to be” or any other supernatural manifestation, it is a physical reaction to a wonderful connection we have developed over time. Now, you made a statement that believers in god often make, that you feel loved in a way non-believers can never comprehend…. Sir, I was not born an atheist. I come from a devout christian family and I spent many years feeling that love you profess, so I can tell you for your knowledge and future reference, I don’t feel lacking in that department, on the contrary, I know a happiness now that a believer cannot comprehend. I have liberated my mind from oppressive beliefs that squander the true nature of humans and narrows it down to a few words on paper, yet claims to be the ultimate everlasting undying love of god. I respectfully reject and resent your comment, if you don’t know me, my life or my emotional state, how can you so sure of yourself state that you “feel” more love than I could ever comprehend.

Last, why do you bring my degrees and academic achievements into this discussion? does it bother you or does it intimidate you? I mentioned these in previous threads simply to let you know I don’t speak without knowledge, I have education and intelligence. This is a statement to clarify just one thing that continues to bother me. I don’t think myself superior to ANYONE, again, I mentioned my education so you know that my comments have an educated background and I’m not just a fanatic that speaks out of desperation or forms his opinions after watching zeitgeist and listening to an atheist speech. So what do my degrees have to do with this? Absolutely nothing, unless you’re trying to mock me, in which case I leave you to your self indulgent behavior. Did I answer your question about love? if you need me to go into more detail I certainly can but I believe I have covered the subject to proper depth.
I urge you to read my post again, I will repeat. I agree with Peter because to say that there is no god otherwise why are there dead babies etc. is a childish statement and makes the person’s atheism indeed illogical, but I disagree with the statement of the response being purely emotional and having to know all things to be able to say there is no god. Do you know all things? I can assure you that you don’t yet you claim that there is a god, one you have never seen, and you do it purely out of emotion (faith) so in that sense an atheist claims of there not being a god are the same as a christian’s claims of there being one, neither one knows all things, yet we each choose to believe in different sides of the coin. Again if you’d like me to go on I will oblige, but I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am trying to have people understand that atheists are not unhappy, not suffering, not bad people, we are all the same as you, good people that want to live in a peaceful world, not because a god instructed us to do so, because we are human and we value humanity.

I would love to talk about your atheism a little more. The reason I labeled Atheism as illogical is because, to say “there is no proof for God’s existence” cannot be proven true or false because a person would have to know all things by which he could state that there is no proof. All an atheist can really say is that he has not yet seen a convincing proof; after all, there may be one he hasn’t yet seen.

And I base that off of the basic laws of logic, specifically, the Law of Excluded Middle which states a statement is either true or false.

Hi Peter,
I’m glad you contacted me, specifically because I wanted to rectify one thing. When I said I agreed and disagreed, maybe I should have said, I agree but my opinion is… since I wasn’t completely disagreeing but posting mi thoughts on the subject by taking it a little deeper.
I would be happy to discuss anything you’d like regarding my beliefs ( or lack thereof ). Let me start with your last point, I agree completely, an atheist who understands Atheism and christianity can only state exactly what you said, we have not yet seen convincing proof, and you are completely correct about not knowing all things, I think anyone who makes that assertion must be positively delusional! However I think labeling Atheism as a whole as illogical is a little over the top, I’ll explain myself;

I will go off of your following statement only -“The reason I labeled Atheism as illogical is because, to say “there is no proof for God’s existence” cannot be proven true or false because a person would have to know all things by which he could state that there is no proof. All an atheist can really say is that he has not yet seen a convincing proof; after all, there may be one he hasn’t yet seen. And I base that off of the basic laws of logic, specifically, the Law of Excluded Middle which states a statement is either true or false.”

That is an excellent point and one I pretty much live my life by, I’ve posted many times that I preach the gospel of I don’t know ( that’s not trying to mock the gospels, just an expression), the reason for that is that although I do not believe in the existence of god, I can not make the statement ” I know there is no god” I can only say by what I’ve studied and experienced, to me the available evidence points towards the atheist side, as I’m sure the same is true for your beliefs, according to you (or christians I should say ), the available evidence poits to the existence of god, you see, No one has ever seen god, heard god and apart from deeply personal experiences no one has evidence of his existence, now I purposely exclude the bible as evidence for multiple reasons I would gladly share with you should you want me to.

Now I post this question to you. Is the same statement you make not true for christianity? A statement is either true or false, so stating that there is a god without knowing all things is a statement of faith, you know there is a god because in your life you feel his presence etc. but not having seen all things or knowing all things makes the statement true for you, not true in a literal sense. This doesn’t make christianity illogical, simply a personal choice that cannot be proven. The same is true for Atheism, it is a personal choice that cannot be proven. Unfortunately some atheist state that there is no god as a fact, when really we don’t know, we just choose to believe the statement for personal reasons, experiences, etc. so the correct statement would be I don’t believe there is a god, as yours would be You believe there is a god, going beyond that without being all knowing and saying you know there is a god is a statement based on faith, which I completely understand and respect.
So to summarize, my point here is that at the core, atheism and christianity share a common denominator: neither of us knows all, we simply make a decision based on interpretation, studies and personal experience but at the end you choose to believe because of your faith which is precisely believing without having proof. I make my decision in a similar manner, I choose not to believe based on my knowledge and studies of scripture, Theology and religions.

I hope I’ve addressed your inquiry in a way that makes sense to you and I hope you don’t take my comparison of christianity and atheism offensive. If you have anymore questions or comments, please feel free to post them, I will gladly go into more detail about anything you wish for me to explain. Thank you for your inquiry, I’m always happy to clarify misconceptions about atheism, especially when a person posts a valid and logical statement as you have. I look forward to your comments/questions.

The existance of an atheist proves GOD exist. HE liberated us, gave us Choice and explained the consqeuences of our choices. Atheist just prove there is a GOD not to believe in. Paul proved to the Romans they have an altar for this GOD ‘to the GOD unknown and not seen . Your free to believe this though out of love we reach out to you. Youre right we serve GOD bases on faith, the substance of things not see. We have evidence, it is in what we hope for and hope never fails. We dont measure things physically as that come natualy, we not jusy physicall being GOD catered to the fullness of our being. CHRIST relates to my body as HE became flesh, physical manifestation of love a.k.a GOD. GOD the father is in relation to my soul, knowledge of right and wrong, creative as GOD and able to express my being. My spirit relates to HIS SPIRIT,holy, true and without blemish. We the sereve him in the evidence of this my friend, sure as I am, he is. To Moses HE is the I AM.

How do you account for the laws of logic in a universe without God? The laws of logic are conceptual by nature and absolute. Meaning, they’re always true all the time everywhere. They’re not the properties of the physical universe (since they are conceptual) or of people (since people contradict each other, which would mean they weren’t absolute). So, how do you account for them?

Well Peter, you are diving into a deep discussion pool here, I think you have to be a little more specific with that claim because conceptual or not these laws are absolute regardless of human disagreeing, contradicting etc. so I hate to answer a question with a question but, How do you account for the laws of logic in a universe with a god, when the very existence of god contradicts all laws of logic? ie. The holy trinity, father, son and holy spirit, people often compare it to water, it can be liquid, gas or solid, but the fact is it is still water, god the father resided in heaven while god the son was on earth, hence, the clamoring from the cross”forgive them father for they know not what they do” or the prayers to god the father before the martyrdom on the cross or “and he shall sit to the right of the father” all stating different persons and one person at the same time. God is in heaven therefor he cannot be on earth, if god is omnipresent, you could make the statement god is in Chicago and god is in Manhattan, which is impossible under the laws of logic. Either god is in Manhattan or he is in Chicago, I’ll explain this part.

1. The law of identity: p is p at the same time and in the same respect. joe is joe and cannot be ralph. but ralph can be the son of joe

2. The law of non-contradiction: a conjunctive proposition (one that uses “and”, as in “p and q”) cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same respect. Thus the proposition “p and not-p” cannot be true. For example, the proposition Example, I’m cold and I’m not cold, is a contradiction, and must be false.
Quick side note on these two… We know the earth is billions of years old, proven repeatedly, yet the bible states it is approximately 7 to 8 thousand years old, therefor if the earth is billions of years old it cannot be 7 thousand years old… throwing the entire bible into a spiral of deception, (I have many more examples of this), continuing

3. The law of the excluded middle: in any proposition “p,” the related disjunctive claim (one that uses “or”, as in “p or not-p”) must be true. A more informal and common way of stating this is to simply say that either a proposition is true or its negation must be true – thus, either p is true or not-p must be true.

So again your statement doesn’t really ring sound to me, how is this in any way pertaining to god? You say humans contradict themselves, but this makes no difference, P is still P whether you believe that P is Q, it is still P. Now if you are trying to reference the laws of inference… different story, all related to the laws of logic but still can’t see how they help your case. and here they are.

Conjunction:

1. P
2. Q
3. Therefore, P and Q.

1. The earth is billions of years old
2. Darwin’s evolution theory has been proven true
3. Therefore, The earth is billions of years old and Darwin’s theory has been proven true

Simplification:

1. P and Q.
2. Therefore, P.

1. The earth is billions of years old and Darwin’s evolution theory has been proven true
2. Therefore, The earth is billions of years old

Addition:

1. P
2. Therefore, P or Q.

1. Darwin’s theory is true
2. Therefore, either We evolved or God created us out of thin air

Absorption:

1. If P, then Q.
2. Therfore, If P then P and Q.

1. If evolution has been proven true then we evolved
2. Therefore, if evolution is proven, then evolution is a reality and we evolved

Modus Ponens:

1. If P then Q.
2. P.
3. Therefore, Q.

1. If evolution is true then we evolved
2. Evolution has been proven true
3. Therefore,we evolved.

Modus Tollens:

1. If P then Q.
2. Not Q. (~Q).
3. Therefore, not P (~P).

1. If god created us, then evolution is false.
2. Evolution is not false
3. Therefore, god did not create us.

Hypothetical Syllogism:

1. If P then Q.
2. If Q then R.
3. Therefore, if P then R.

1. If evolution is true then we evolved.
2. if we evolved then we were not created by god.
3. If evolution is true, then we were not created by god.

Disjunctive Syllogism:

1. Either P or Q.
2. Not P (~P).
3. Therefore, Q.

1. either there’s proof god created us or evolution is true
2. there’s no proof god created us.
3. Therefore, evolution is true.

Constructive Dilemma:

1. (If P then Q) and (If R then S).
2. P or R.
3. Therefore, Q or S.

1. if evolution is true we evolved, if god created us we came out of thin air
2. Either we evolved or we came out of thin air
3. Therefore, either we evolved or came out of thin air

The above rules of inference, when combined with the rules of replacement, mean that propositional calculus is “complete.” Propositional calculus is simply another name for formal logic. To say that it is “complete” means that, in this system, the axioms used are sufficient to demonstrate any true proposition or to justify any valid argument

Now, again I don’t quite understand your statement about these laws not being of the physical universe, they are conceptual but came from a human mind, Starting with Aristotle. Like I mentioned earlier the only thing relating to god here is that if there were a god, he violates all laws of logic, which would make him not possible within the confinements of these laws. Not sure if I misunderstood you but if I did, explain further because this is the best I can do given your statement, Hope it answers your question and thanks for the mind challenges, I appreciate those.

By the way Peter when you say:
How do you account for the laws of logic in a universe without God? The laws of logic are conceptual by nature and absolute. Meaning, they’re always true all the time everywhere. They’re not the properties of the physical universe (since they are conceptual) or of people (since people contradict each other, which would mean they weren’t absolute). So, how do you account for them?
It sounds to me like a statement I’ve had to debate before, The statement was made by a proponent of the same belief as you and cited CARM (Christian Apologetic and Research Ministry) here’s their link to this particular subjecthttp://carm.org/christian-worldview-atheist-worldview-and-logic
The problem is, the proponent was not succesful at all in the debate, it actually went pretty bad, pretty quick. Just letting you know, this is a subject I’ve dealt with extensively against the christian view and haven’t found much logic in their logic.

What I meant was that people didn’t create the laws of logic. They are absolute and exist because they reflect the nature of an absolute God. Conceptual…. meaning they exist in the mind rather than nature. They transcend space and time because they are absolute.

I also will say that you are actually incorrect when you said the Bible only supports the young earth theory. It supports both. We might only have 6000 years of human history but the earth very well could be billions of years old and the Bible supports this.

You may very well be correct but unfortunately that is not a proven theory about the bible. Regarding the laws of logic I have to disagree, these laws are infallible to our knowledge but were not created by god. what you are saying about these laws is only the christian view on the laws of logic, so unless you can prove the existence of god, they are not “absolute and exist because they reflect the nature of an absolute God”
And I understand the meaning of conceptual, I just don’t see it that way, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Like I said, the very notion of god violates the laws of logic so to me the point is moot. However this was a very much entertaining conversation, I appreciate the thought and detail you put into your faith, it’s more than I can say for the average christian debater. Have a wonderful day and If you have any other questions/comments/concerns that I my give you my opinion on, let me know, I will always be available for an intellectual conversation.

Dude, they’re in a better place with God. People die to be punished or rewarded for their acts in life. Please take this into consideration because we are all going to die including you and it would be a shame to see you suffer forever in hell. God be with you

Just found your site and have been reading for hours – it’s superb – bless you for the work you’re doing. Ev

One small comment, since this is the second time on your blog I’ve seen it:

Isaiah 14, the five “I will” statements, specifically – according to my understanding and research – are not said by Satan as often stated. Although these are absolutely in his character and in line with his agenda, It’s actually the Babylonian king being discussed. Lucifer is a translation of the Hebrew meaning Lightbearer, a term used for others (typically kings) besides Satan.

It’s an easily confusing passage, and I was corrected in my belief it was about Satan by people/sources I respect as well as a close reading of the previous chapters.

Thanks for your kind words. I really appreciate it. Praise God that you find the site to be a blessing to you. As for Isaiah 14, I am glad to share my thoughts. To give you some background, I am very familiar with the idea that the person in view is only the “King of Babylon.” In fact last year I read the book “Deconstructing Lucifer” by David Lowe which argues in favor of your point and corresponded with the author who is an acquaintance of mine. But I still definitely think the passage transitions from an Earthly King to speaking about Satan.

First off, if you are going to say that Lucifer is “the King of Babylon”, well which King was it? You should be able to identify this person in Scripture.

And then just looking at the verses and the aspirations in the passage, they are referencing supernatural/spirit realm goals:

“For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,” — the Hebrew for the word ‘ascend’ means to literally climb up into something or travel into an area. This person literally wants to enter into Heaven. When did any Babylonian King ever express this desire?

“I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:” – the “stars of God” are angels. This is speaking about not ruling over Earth but ruling over all of the angelic realm. Again, this is a desire to literally take the place of The Lord. These are not boastful statements. This is a plan.

“I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north” — This again references taking God’s place on Mt. Zion, His Holy Mountain. The “sides of the north” are another term for Israel (see Psalm 48). This is yet another aspiration that goes directly to God’s throne. These are not the goals of a regular human being who has never seen God nor his throne. No Babylonian King has ever witnessed the congregation of angels who stand before The Lord. Where would all this be coming from if a Babylonian King, who most likely does not even believe in God, was the one making these statements? It does not really follow logically.

” I will ascend above the heights of the clouds” — Do a word search on “clouds” in the Old Testament and you will see they are often connected to angelic beings or the movement of The Lord. So we have 4 of 4 statements that all references supernatural desires to to usurp God Himself.

“I will be like the most High.” — The “Most High” is a title for the Hebrew God, not just a general name for any god. Again I have to ask why would a Babylonian King even express a desire to be like the God of the Jews? Whereas we know Satan wanted The Lord Jesus to worship him. We know Satan fell into condemnation from his pride. It was his desire to be like the Most High that started all of this in the first place.

So those are my thoughts. I know a big issue is often made of the name Lucifer and its Latin meaning, etc. But I think just from context of scripture we can know that there is someone beyond the King of Babylon who is in view in this esoteric passage.

Wow thank you for that speedy and thoughtful response! I have to say you convinced me!

When you said ‘First off, if you are going to say that Lucifer is “the King of Babylon”, well which King was it? You should be able to identify this person in Scripture.” that was actually one thing sticking in my craw – there isn’t a name in the whole book! Not that I saw, anyway.

Peter, at this point I’m going to stop this insanity, I try to reason and play ball on your court but it simply is not working out. Why do you insist on asking questions? you have not answered one of mine. I honestly thought you were interested in hearing a different point of view but as with every other person that has engaged in conversation/debate here, you are only interested in driving an invisible nail with an invisible hammer. I’ll give you an assignment, look up who Plato was, then look up who their deity was… actually I’ll give you that one, Logos. Put all that together and come up with whatever answer makes you feel better at night. as far as I’m concerned at this point the laws of logic came from a Burger King’s menu.
Look, I returned to this site to honestly apologize because I allowed myself to react at the same level of the people that have addressed me here, I got insulted so I insulted back and that’s not me (but I’m about to stop being me here pretty soon 😉 ). Only one member whose name I can’t recall actually apologized for their post and actually requested the removal of it ( thank you, that was a gentlemanly thing to do ), everyone else simply tries to mock, embarrass, ridicule and insult me, to which I can honestly say I’m used to coming from christians, like if your ridiculous statements actually affected my life or took away my degrees and knowledge. sometimes some christians forget that judging is not their job, but that’s a whole other subject. As far as this discussion goes, I have answered your question on 3 separate occasions. Again, have you answered any of mine? No, because you can’t, you do not have the intellect to step onto the same podium as me, your intelligence is far below mine and it shows.

A debate is only a debate when both parties challenge and address each other’s propositions, otherwise it’s simply a verbal boxing match, which I’m not getting into, I’m just going to pile drive, ground and pound you, the site owner and every reader here…. I have stated my point, even playing with your ignorant rule book (laws of logic), but I see you have no intention of honestly collaborating in a civil intellectual argument, just flexing your severely idiotic googleing muscles. It’s a shame really, I read and study numerous christian articles, webpages, books, etc. in the interest of furthering my knowledge, so it saddens me when I see such one-sided thinkers try to reconcile science and religion in completely illogical ways. I don’t want to get into a pissing match here, so why can’t you accept my last post, let’s agree to disagree. You will never convince me that there is a god, it simply is impossible, and I’m certainly not trying to convince you there is not a god, so why the persistent attitude? Are you trying to understand/discuss atheism or are you simply trying to impress the readers? you might impress the high school dropouts that believe this B and E guy actually knows anything but the rest of the normal people with more than a 50 IQ just laugh at …well all of you. Let me go Buddha on you and enlighten your mind a bit. Here’s a fact: While there are hundreds of christians who will read this thread and cheer for your side of the story, there are hundreds of atheists who will read it and laugh at your illogical logic while cheering my words. That is undeniable, because again you were unable to answer any of my questions, that’s called being stomped, accept it, you do not possess the brain power to go up against the greatest mind the world has ever seen… Me! There’s a reason my nickname is El Diablo, I am the king of darkness, the ruler of the underworld, and you’re all going to hell for reading my words….oooooohhhhh, be scared!

And as my last post on this idiot based website, I leave you morons with this.

I’m going to follow up by saying something I have already said and maintain. When I came across this website I posted on a thread and was openly invited to post and share my view, while I quickly realized that it was not an honest invitation, but a failed attempt to try to put my knowledge in question, the stupidity of some posters really got under my skin so I continued to post with horrible results that really changed my attitude and I should have known better. I find the articles here are sub-standard, the research is mediocre at best and the quality of response is so low, I only returned to rectify what I believe was wrong on my part, but in all honesty, I don’t know why I waste my time. Only twice have I been treated with respect, the rest of the time I have been badgered with illogical arguments, judgmental attitudes and the likes of this community. I host a radio show and publish a private webcast for several atheist groups (plus a small personal youtube post for my own ranting and raving that no one watches), we get Christians coming in all the time and sadly it’s always the same, the holier than thou attitude, the most foul-mouthed, hating people you could ever meet…but you dare call yourselves Christian, god loving, accepting, non-judging… BULL. I have not found one article here worthy of real analysis, so I just use what I read here to make very funny remarks about the psychopathic paranoid writings, that find satan in everything (even the lyrics to children’s songs and movies) and believe that everything is dominated by secret societies, the illuminati, the freemasons….OOOOHHH, they’re coming to get you! I belong to a secret society, the Rosicrucian order, AMORC (Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis), I’m sure now you will all label me a Satanist that’s secretly trying to take over the world… whatever. I honestly wanted to bring peaceful knowledge without belittling anyone’s beliefs, obviously that is impossible. So for the last time I will say, keep on believing what you will, believe that there are secret societies trying to rule the world in the name of satan, that every artist that makes money must have a deal with the devil, that you have all the answers when really faith doesn’t give you any answers, it simply stops you from asking the questions. But while you’re sitting here posting stink about me that I will never read remember this, all the vilest acts in history have been made in the name of god and while irresponsible writers keep spreading the nonsense found within these pages, and mindless gullible readers unable to form their own opinions keep believing this… what the hell, garbage, the world will remain a sad place. I respectfully withdraw from this ridiculous site, I have to join the real world and live my life, oh and make it a great one because it’s the only one we have. I suggest you all do the same, start living life to the fullest and stop waiting for a better one, there is no other one, don’t waste it. Also I withdraw my previous apology, I will give you the same respect I have been shown. Beginning and End, begin deleting my subscription to this page and end the idiotic fiction based writing please, stop stealing IQ Points from people! As for the rest of you, I will never be back here, I can’t take so many mindless idiots in one place so really go ahead, insult away, I know you want to. Really get a life, I have one, and it’s waiting for me in the bedroom naked, so got to go sin like there’s no tomorrow! Oh, and the laws of logic came from Plato, Aristotle and many other men, not god you freaking moron, go buy a brain. Thank god I’m done with this page!… oh wait, I don’t believe in an invisible man floating in the sky… thank my brain then… Good night flock of idiotic moronic self-diluted pigs, go pray about that. ..l.. Idiots.

I appreciate you trying to make a comeback acting in a civil manner. I am saddened that you turned back to your old ways. But this is why I asked you about LOVE. Where is your love for your fellow human beings? Do you truly believe in love? You said that love was a series of chemical reactions set off by the presence of a certain person (i.e., your wife). That is what I could say about walking into a room and smelling a perfectly made cheeseburger. Is this how you really feel about your wife? That she elicits the same reactions in you as good food or a riveting sports game? I would hope not. Try as you might, you cannot quantify love. You can’t put love in a box and observe it, divide into parts or hand it out to different people to experience. Yet YOU still believe in it.

You then claimed you can “prove” your wife loves you because she “takes care” of you. I think it’s fair to see that we both know full well there are many, many men and women who absolutely despise their spouses and yet still “take care” of them every day. You can pay someone to come and clean your home. That is no proof they love you. Parents “take care” of kids who in some instances they truly can’t stand. Children take in their elderly parents or put them in homes even when they hate them. Someone can “take care” of their spouse for 30 years and the whole time wish they were out of their marriage. Thinking actions someone does prove love is a shallow perspective on love. And this is why you are missing out. At the end of the day you put faith in your spouse that she loves and is loyal to you. Period. There is no scientific formula to apply conclude “this proves my spouse is 100% loyal to me!” You can’t see into the heart. You just have faith and trust. So you are no different than the Christians you mock. You are a faith based believer as is everyone who has a loving relationship with anyone.

And we as Christians extend our faith to God. We believe in God through faith and we know God loves us through faith. But that is just the beginning. Because once you have faith, and humble yourself before The Lord, then God can work with you. Why do you need to be humble? Because you are a sinner. I don’t think it would take long to prove that. But God says:

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land -Isaiah 1:18-19.

This is when the love of God can go from a concept to a reality in your life. Because we start to realize that God did prove His love to us. By sending His Son to die for us even when we were all in angry rebellion like you are right now. I know because I was once like you. But now I know much, much better. We don’t have to fear death. We do not have to fear judgment. In faith in God’s love by Jesus’ sacrifice for us, we can be free from all this and have a true, loving relationship with the Creator of the universe (and all matter):

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 1 John 4

I can’t make you believe anything. I can only share the good tidings that were once shared with me. God is real. Heaven and Hell are real. And we all have souls. We are not animals. We are human beings and our souls will be judged by the same God you deny today. I hope and pray you reconsider and experience the immense love He has for you. God bless.

Thank you for your comments but you have taken the conversation off topic. They call that trolling in the cyber world. We would like to stay on topic and keep posts related to the stories we have just read or the videos we have just watched. The topic is illuminate, satanic symbols, the ills of the music industry and individual artists and con erns Christians and others have about what they ate learning here.

so sad! why would a mere mortal try to figure out the things of God. dont you know ”O” that God is infinite, how can you explain that, or that he is omniscient, you will blow your mind trying to figure that out, but let me add by saying this, Faith is a gift of God, its either you have it or you dont, thats why the bible talks of simple faith, like a mustard seed, its ordained of Almighty God,
heaven and earth were not created in 7days, thats an error, bible says in the beginning God created heaven and earth, the 7 days(7000years to us) God fashioned the earth, He decorated it, but genesis 1v1 just says He created, and period,
but since Adam to this day thats approx 6000 yes! the 1st 2000 yrs he judged by water in Noah, the 2nd 2000 Jesus Christ sanctified this earth by His own blood, and the 3rd 2000 are just about over when He will burn the element with fervent heat, an then 1000 years for the millenium (sabbath rest) to make it all in all 7000 years according to our time and 7 days in God’s time piece.

If you cant believe my friend woe unto you for judgement will overtake every1 thats not under the blood of Jesus Christ, when He sits on His throne to judge the nations by His Word.
REPENT!!! humble yourself and confess Him Lord and Saviour NOW, before its too late

I don’t know what u christians want us to believe. U often said that It is written in your bible that ” No one can receive any favour except from the heaven” if so you are contradicting your self by spreading the believe that other OBJECT that can neither see or talk is capable of giving people wealth, fame and fortune. As far as am concerned this so called illuminate celebrities are super rich, happily married and blessed with children eg jay z and buoyancy. I refuse to believe that all these things are the hand work of devil. Are u trying to tell me that God is no longer working or he did no longer capable of making people super rich except the so called illuminate secret society. The problem with most average people is that they always trying to figure out the misery surrounding fame and fortune that is why they tend to attribute it some thing. From all indication the society can be in existence but i don’t agree that it is object they are worshipping that is giving them fame and fortune; it is as a result of ignorant in their own part to think so. What about the inspiration and their good voice is this also given by the secrete society? Of cause not they are naturally talented with potential to be rich and famous is just they are ungrateful to the most high.

modern day judas iscariot is what they are, God is not looking for talent, He looks at the heart period! you think you can buy your way into heaven? you cant do it, nothing, I repeat nothing short of perfect love will enter in. when you mock God regardless of wealth and talent you’ve got nothing but except a fearful expectation of Judgement and the out-pouring of a righteous God’s wrath who will demand an individual account of all our lives, He is today giving to us a token of His love, His Holy Spirit if we’ll only accept it.

Repent or perish friend!!! how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;
its time now, yes its time to quit our nonsence, to try to mix God with the things of the world. People of the world, GET OUT OF SODOM! COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM AND BE NOT PARTAKERS OF THEIR SINS, AND THAT YOU RECEIVE NOT OF THEIR PLAGUES. FOR THEIR SINS HAVE REACHED UNTO HEAVEN, AND GOD HAS REMEMBERED THEIR INIQUITIES.

Thank you beginning and end…we can try to save our non-believing brothers,but then again..love and faith for God cannot be forced onto them. All we can do is pray for them..God bless you all, even you Dr. O

This is BRILLIANT! But nothing was mentioned about sacrifices and how almost EVERY hot artist from Kanye to even Jennifer Hudson (who had an exceptional church upbringing) has an immediate family member die or get killed in some ridiculous fashion.

Jay-Z has had tons of death in his family where as he doesn’t mention it at all nor does it seem to affect him. I was already a bit concerned about Kanye’s “transition” and soon after his mother passed away- I went to a concert at MSG where he literally laid on the stage and talked to a female-voiced universe (stars as mentioned earlier)….

Once 808’s came out- I knew it was over for him… Sad man. Praise Jesus- this has convinced me to stay away from him and his music at all cost.

Logic is non-existent without God – for to be *consistent* with the naturalist paradigm, one would have to believe that things like free will and logic are illusory. For everything can/should be explained by chemical processes.

One cannot say that they arrived at a position by reason or choice for their brain has been ‘hard-wired’ to function that way.

As someone once said:

“…if materialism is true, then “thought” is just an epiphenomenon of the brain, & the results of the
laws of chemistry. Thus,given their own presuppositions, materialists have not freely arrived at their
conclusion, because it was predetermined by brain chemistry.
But then why should their brain chemistry be trusted over yours or ours, since both obey the same
infallible laws of chemistry?
So in reality, if materialists are right,then they can’t even help what they believe(including their belief in materialism). Yet they often call themselves “freethinkers”, overlooking the glaring irony!
Genuine initiation of thought is an insuperable problem for materialism.”

Dr O couldnt answer your question is why he went off the handle. B and E that was an amazing response you gave Dr O in the end. His “intelligence” is blinding him from his ignorance. Its funny he clearly admitted he cannot prove there is not a God then proceeded to try and prove there is no God with some rediculous mathmatical and philosophical equation that can simply be reworded to prove there can be a God. Try it and ull see what I mean. Wow I couldnt imagine putting my chips on an overthinking man named Aristrotle living in Greece thousands of years ago. Ive read Dr Os argumehts in other blogs that Jesus has no proof of existence other than writings about Him from others many years later. Gee Dr O that sounds familiar. Where is his proof Aristotle existed? How is his proof of existence different from Jesus? Yet he chants Aristotle like gospel but denies Jesus? Its comical yet sad. Too bad Aristotle wasnt around to answer another philosopher named Pascals question to non believers. How would Aristotle comprise a “logical” answer to Pascal?
As far as the earth being proven to be billions of years old? Really? Anyone please explain this to me other than carbon dating. Which has been recently proven to have major errors. And evolution is true? Well yea but that proves there is no God? Evolution can be explained in milk turning into cheese. But im still waiting on those “elusive” missing links between me and curious George. Poor Dr O he is one of many hopeless people im afraid. By the way did anyone notice the evil satan coming out from him in his last post? Well done Doc I believed you did most of the proving in this entire blog. That satan is real. Therefore given your hilarious P and R theory…Jesus is real.

Where is his proof Aristotle existed? How is his proof of existence different from Jesus?

Wow that is a stupid argument. For one Aristotle actually WROTE something and there other historical writings from others during that time that mention him. Plus he had students that wrote about him as well. I’m all for trying to make a point but don’t belittle the teachings of a great man just because of your narrow point of view.

With “Jesus” there are no historical reference at all except the bible which was put assembled from different stories 300 years after he existed during the reign of Emperor Constatine.
The stories written about him were 50 to 60 years after his death. All that red in the modern bible are NOT his exact words because he never wrote anything. They are second hand tellings of story.

What kills me is that people dont want to look at the fact that all of the holidays from the Christian religion are actually pagen especially Christmas and Easter. The illuminatihave done a fine job of dumbing downtrhe masses. The Vatican is one of the most evil institutions in history. They have committed genocide in the name of Jesus yet Christians still support them. God gave you logic use it.

Thanks for your comment. I just wanted to reply to one point you made:

Where is his proof Aristotle existed? How is his proof of existence different from Jesus?

Wow that is a stupid argument. For one Aristotle actually WROTE something and there other historical writings from others during that time that mention him. Plus he had students that wrote about him as well. I’m all for trying to make a point but don’t belittle the teachings of a great man just because of your narrow point of view.

I think this shows a common misperception about “famous” historical figures. Since you seem to be a fan of Aristotle, I assume you know he died in 322 BC. The oldest manuscript of an Aristole writing dates back to 850 AD (and it is written in Latin, meaning it has gone through several translations from its original language of Koine Greek). This means, the best evidence we have of his existence is a document written over 1100 years after his death. Which obviously, he didn’t write, but was transcribed by someone else.

You admit that the manuscripts of the Gospel date to 50 to 60 years after his death. Well, we still have thousands of those manuscripts from the 2 centuries after His death today. So by any objective evaluation, the proof Jesus existed is far, far greater than the proof that Aristotle did. In fact from a historian’s perspective, it’s not even close.

Just wanted to give some perspective because it seems to be a common misperception that we have documents of Plato, Socrates, Home and others all over the place, when in fact nothing could be father from the truth. The amount of manuscript evidence of Jesus is greater than all of those “great men” combined.

Your argument is still flawed. The story of Jesus mirrors that of Hourous. Also the bible has been translated many of times. I’m not a fan boy i was pointing out that at least the works are allegedly his. There are no works written by Jesus. you dont even know when he was born. Dec 25 was chosen to help it be more accepted by pagens. I just find it laughable that people think one man can save infinite universe with an infinite number of galaxies and planets. The more you research the more you realize how brainwashed mankind is. There are billions for galaxies and you can seriously think that a man came to save them all. God doesn’t care what religion you are becuase they are man made. Actions speak louder than words. Following dogma won’t save you.

Actually, it’s not. The evidence of Jesus’ existence for exceeds that of Aristotle. You are just shifting the argument rather than just acknowledging your error in thinking there was an abundance of evidence of Aristotle from his lifetime, when in fact, there is nothing within 1000 years of his death.

You can choose to deny Jesus and believe in Aristotle. That is your prerogative. But your point was just incorrect.

Rather than having so much hostility towards God, why not getting to know him. December 25th is not in the Bible, so it has no relevance. Why not judge the Bible on its merits, rather than judge it on things that are not even it. God does indeed care what religion you are because there is only way to salvation: faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. — John 3:17-18.

You were already wrong about Aristotle. What if you’re wrong about Jesus too? Your eternal fate is not worth making a decision on a hunch. Seek God with an open heart and let Him reveal Himself to you.

I don’t have hostility against God. Name one reference besides the bible that mention Jesus. You can’t because their isn’t one. Do you even know his real name? Jesus is the Sun personified and Christians have been tricked into worshiping the Sun. The Bible is Astrological and more related to the Zodiac as you know.

I will give you several secular references to Jesus Christ. You can find our article on this right here:

As for the worship of Jesus being disguised “sun worship”, the Bible addresses this.

And he [God] brought me into the inner court of the Lord’s house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. – Ezekiel 8-16-17

God shows Ezekiel the sinful, idolatrous priests who were worshiping the sun and calls it an “abomination.” Clearly the God of the Bible is against sun worship. It invokes His wrath. And the sad truth, is that he sees YOU the same way. Rather than worship the sun, you have placed yourself and your “intellect” on the throne of your heart as God. And in anger, challenge and resist The Lord who gives you life every day.

Again, you have shown you are wrong on the Bible, which is why I urge you to get to know the God of the Bible, by reading Scriptures, rather than pre-judging without any knowledge of Him. Would you want someone to do that to you?

I say this because I care about you and do not want you to go to Hell, which while scientists may think is not proven, is very real. See here for how to avoid, this and be forgiven for your sins so you can return to God’s family as a beloved child. I hope you consider it.

OMG I’m not going to hell because it doesn’t exist. It was created by the Roman catholic Church to have YOU live in fear. The bible is a deep book don’t get me wrong but to the untrained mind like yourself you can easily fall victim. It is not meant to be taken literary. If you ever read the original Hebrew they never mention the word “devil” it is a mis-translation done on purpose to keep the masses enslaved.

I can go on and on but it is a mute point. People like you only understand bible quotes so here are some for you to digest.

One God

* Matthew 4:10: “Jesus said to him,’Away from me, Satan! For it is written: “Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.”‘”

* John 17:3: “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

* 1Corinthians 8:5-6: “For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

* 1Timothy 2:5: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”

* James 2:19: “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.”

Son and Father

* Mark 13:32:”No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

* John 5:19: “Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.”

* John 14:28: “You heard me say,’I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”

* John 17:20-23: “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

* John 20:17: “Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,’I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”

* Acts 7:55-56: “But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.”

* Colossians 1:15: “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”

* 1Corinthians 15:24-28: “Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.”

“OMG I’m not going to hell because it doesn’t exist. It was created by the Roman catholic Church to have YOU live in fear.”

I don’t know if i believe in a god or the fantastical elements of these ancient stories..anymore..regardless “be realistic” is right, the roman’s worshipped solar deities like ‘sol invictus’ and they were always seeking dominion over the nations. Christianity was becoming very popular among the gentiles and causing conflict with the pagans so they came up with catholicism. Mixing paganism and christianity together, to satisfy the pagans and christian’s, under their rule/religion. Our calendar, the names of our months, the days in the week were created by the roman catholic church. Christmas and ishtar/easter also pagan days. Christianity and our generation has come to accept this, a lot ignorantly. Now for a story about me. I was born into a christian family and as i started to think for myself i rejected it, than later a good friend of mine came to believe he was an important character, an apostle of god and I believed parts of what he told me coz it was so convincing (quite intelligent arguments) I believe we were being called by god, than i did research and figured we were in the end times and what i learnt about Roman catholic church, freemasonry, illuminati, NWO, occultic symbolism/satanic worship, bible prophecy, was pointing to that time being now. My friend was sus about me and my low self esteem brought me to become sus about myself. I became jelous of him and I hated him a little. Weird stuff started to happen, Demonic dreams, sleep paralysis or astral projection ( lol ) anyway all bullshit negative stuff and when i was at the end of my tether and so depressed and he was increasingly getting unwell and deeper into his delusion, I broke away and asked god to show me something that say’s my friend was not right and that I was not evil. I found Trumpet call of god ‘letters’ on the internet and what was in those letters was information i previously already believed and learnt, which made it seem more valid. One young guy in the group, still chat to now n than, who believed god was speaking to him and named him as one of the 144, 000. He basically said what i wanted to hear, god loved me and i was good lol . This guy was quite remarkable and a good dude but decieved. There was one prophet/apostle that started this more so internet based cult called “timothy” who i now suspect was making money off it. A non profit thing but if u wanted to get the letters in hard back copy it cost printing cost and i heard rumours he had a printing business :/ I didn”t put any money into it but i can imagine a lot would have. Anyway what kept me in this cult was my dreams. I was having amazing dreams. Later i found out that when in a hightened emotional state all the time, people can hallucinate ect. and this was happening all the time in this cult with alot of people that whole heartedly believed. I had a 2 part dream that Jesus told me he died for me and showed me people dressed in black acting like mountain goats. I had more but that one was particularly amazing coz i dreamt that than woke up n fell asleep 10 mins later and went back to that same dream. Anyway, I believed god was re-fashioning me into an end day messenger or prophet and i was willing. I stopped seeing friends, didn’t drink, gave up material possesions, cds dvds, clothes, and gave them to the poor along with money. I gave this one guy one time a fair bit of money for accomodation. He had a pregnant wife and they were on the street. I told him things were gonna change Yahshua was returning and he got into this big spiritual convo with me. I saw him again later and he told me a bit about his situation and how they needed more cash so he was gonna beg, i gave him sum more cash, saw him another day and he had another sad story, went for coffee this time and he went on about demons and spirutual stuff and said he was waiting to see if he could get this place tonight and he just needed more cash and after all that talk about seeing demons in his past and how vivid over the top and bullshit it sounded and than he got a call from that place saying if he didn’t have the money in an hour than they were gonna give the room away. I knew i was being taken advantage of. I gave my money up, i was sad and I never went to see that guy again. I knew he was lieing and using me and so was his wife. I felt betrayed. I didn’t have much money to lose but i thought i’ll be fine, gods got my back lol later at a point where i was started to disbelieve the “letters” my friend got back in contact with me and said basically that i’m a fool for getting into that cult. He said, Jesus is a contradiction of gods word, coz god says in the commandments not to worship idols just the one god. Which opened my eyes, Jesus is an idol. And he said revelations was a way to manifest evil purpose, like evil men have had this plan for centuries i.e illuminati. I just don’t know….one things for certain, a god/creator of the universe, if he exists he is way too big and intelligent to care about torturing his own creation for not worshipping him or his son. Hell does not exist in the fantasy sense. Hell is a state of mind. I say we keep our eyes and ears open but from a christian perspective it seems so idiotic and childish that a universal creator would create ignorant beings to have faith in a book written thousands of years ago and trust that some man existed that we have little to no historical evidence of that sacrificed himself so we may live forever….. sounds like “i’m afraid of death so this story makes me feel better in this temporary life that inevitably ends” i understand death is scary but religion is intolerant. A world without deception and religion, of people respective and appreciative, not hurting anyone and loving always sounds better. But coming back to the music vids, I’ve seen whats been happening in the music industry. Occultic, satanic symbolism in the clips and lyrics. I question whether its just a ploy to get more attention therefore more hits/ratings i.e more money. It seems deeper than that though. BTW “Be realistic” is right, eternal torment for humans is not mentioned in the bible, not once. Its been mistranslated to keep christian’s in fear and accepting evil roman catholic churches doctrine. Christianity have many similarities with roman catholicism but also so many differences and contradictions.

Bliss you spent a good amount of time to provide facts to zelots. No matter how much you show them the truth they will block it out. Science has.actually proven that this os a defense mechanism. Their brain basically it trying to protect itself because the truth will totally shatter their world. Humanity has a long way to go to rid it’s self of this Dogma.

When I said “be realistic” is right, I meant about the roman catholic church. I don’t believe in the words in the bible, so i don’t think taking it literally or interpretive matters. I see the god of the old testament these days as cruel and harsh, commanding people not to murder than demanding them to murder. A lot of inconsistency and contradiction. He rescues the Israelite’s from the oppressive rule of Egypt, than later commands moses to demand his people to slaughter each other.

NLT: Exodus 32:27 :
“Moses told them, This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Each of you, take your swords and go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other. Kill everyone–even your brothers, friends, and neighbors.”

NIV:
Then he said to them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'”

The new living translation adds, “kill everyone” which is very different to what is translated in the other versions but either way, why would a god of love command this? there’s no love there.
I use to pass this off, brainwashed, start making excuses like, “no one can judge god’s judgement or its apart of the bigger plan” I now say its violent and evil. If we imagine we were there in that moment, just imagine how horrific that would have been. I would of been like, god said what!!!???

anyway gone off topic, I have been deceived many times now, as I outlined in my previous post, so even if there is spiritual warfare going on than its still hard to define and trust anything that one calls truth in this world full of lies and deception. I wouldn’t be surprised if the world really is in conflict with evil and evil beings though, possessing people and changing them for evil purpose. Movies have been made about it eg, “Lord of the rings” and “Black Swan.” We see this in the music videos and in lyrics but I can’t say if its real or a good way to get even more famous/popular, being controversial.
My gut feeling is that’s not the true agenda and it’s been made so visible , the symbolism, satanic music videos, because they don’t care, cause evil is trying to take control and they want people to get use to it.

LOL thank you beginning and end for putting “Realistic” in his non educated place. Not that I already did before he even entered the discussion. Notice yet again how “they” change the argument to some other moot point when they prior one is smashed. Let him choose his life and fate. “Ignorance cannot be overcome except for the ignorant themselves”. He should look up that quote. Im sorry to say but you can hardly ever change an athiests mind because they have mental issues far beyond religion and God. Its sad, but its true. Thank you for trying as hard as you do B and G. You are a good person.

Ha Ha no one put me in my place nor did I change the subject. I like how you assume i’m an atheist. This is typical of christians and other ignorant western religions. “If you don’t believe what I believe your going to hell” . It’s a lot easier to be a sheep than take responsibility for your spirituality. When your a sheep you can blame everything on the devil, Illuminati, etc. Blame everyone but yourself and humans for their actions.

I digress, the facts still remains that there is no historical records of Jesus except the stories in the bible. The new testament is the “Gospel according to [insert name here]” This clearly shows that he didn’t write ANYTHING. Not one word in the new testament is his. At least Aristotle WROTE something and there are other people who were alive during his time that can account that he did actually exist.

Do you even know what the Bible is and how it was constructed? Do you even know what the Cross is and how that symbol has existed thousands of years before Christianity was even a thought? No because you are brainwashed. I think God appreciates those who actually search for the truth and don’t just blindly follow a religion that has the Blood of BILLIONS on it’s hands.

LOL youre such an idiot. Typical though. We just showed you how there is more proof of Jesus than Aristotle. And the writers of the Bible were the witnesses to Jesus in the New Testament that he did exist. So how is this any different than witnesses to Aristotle?At least the writings about Jesus were within a few decades and not Milleniums like your boy Aristotle. You have such a cloud in your head I doubt you even have much intelligence. Keep blocking YOUR mind from the truth. And to answer your questions yes I do know all of that and thats why I believe in the bible. So youre saying that since the cross was a symbol that existed years before Christianity that the Romans didnt actually hang people from a cross? haha because if you are then youre a bigger idiot than I already knew. You make me laugh. That is all. Bottom line…we have shown the proof of Jesus is greater than a man you believe existed. What have you proven? Nothing…..which is the value of your belief system. And to laugh at you even further..if I was so adement about not believing in something I wouldnt be wasting my time on their sites making comments and crying about what they say. But YOU do so all that tells me is deep down you really arent sure and are scared as you should be!! The power of the Bible and its words will never be defeated by cowards like you. Obviously! Non believers always have been and always will be the minority. Losers!!! lol

Your a funny one. You still have not shown any proof. What writings outside of the bible talk about Jesus not one. Jesus wasn’t even his supposed name. It was a title. In face the same story has been told over and over again over the ages because it is the story of the “Sun of God”.

You assume that when I was taking about the cross I was referring to the Romans. The Cross and the Bible are more tied to the Zodiac than you will ever know. The cross is a symbol of the sun journey through out the year. It represents the Summer and Winter solstice and the Spring and Fall Equinoxes. To put it simpler the the bottom part of the cross represents the summer the shorter part on top represents the winter.

The bible and most western religions has astrological roots. America the Sun cult is at war with Islam the moon cult. It is classic mass hallucination the “Illuminati” keep us dumb down because if more people knew the truth of who are what we are they would empower themselves and not be mental slaves. Oh and BTW I’m far from ignorant I have two degrees and one of them is in Philosophy.

Prove ANYTHING you just stated. ANYTHING and I will concede to you now!! First of all Jesus was mentioned in two Jewish historical writings dated around 100 AD. Second, Tacitus who despised Christianity mentioned the man named Jesus that he accounted for existing. I dont need to go further. Why isnt the Bible accountful? It actually comes from scribes dated right after Jesus here. Finally you really are a lost person and Im sorry. As far as your degrees…anyone can get a Philosophy, Astrology, Psychology etc degree lol. Theyre all practically useless among many others. My graduate degree is at least useful as well as productive and respectful. Again, Prove ANYTHING you stated above. Your challenge!

By the way…Tell the Jews that their Torah is not a historical book! LOL. ALSO, There are no “official papers” from Pontius Pilate. Historical records that Pilate himself existed are non-existant, except for one inscribed column, dedicating the column at Caesarea to Tiberias from Pilate. Record keeping was scant back them.
Only eight pieces affirm that Julius Caesar existed! So maybe all of history is a lie haha. You poor guy..so busy trying to prove Jesus isnt real. Hurry, Youre running out of time!! lol

There is no contention in CHRIST HE is love and is not boastful or argumetative. Leave dude be if thats what he wants to believe. We come not with flattering speech, but with the powerful manifestation of the Kingdom of GOD. When last did healing flow from your mouth instead of arguing manifest HIS power. I am willing to meet any time any place for you to see the glory of GOD.Drop me a mail, describe your desire and see the hand of GOD for yourself.

and if Ignorance is not always Bliss was a true historical intellect he would also understand the part of history where Christianity broke off from the Roman Catholics because they were translating the scriptures in their own way. Ever heard of Martin Luther? Hence the original scriptures and TRUE meaning of Christianity still exists today because they were taken from the Pope and translated correctly. Now….my question to him. How does his argument prove Jesus is not real given what I just said?

Wait…I just finished Bliss’ entire post and decided that he is simply crazy and needs to seek help lol. Sorry B and E, I know you like to approach these types with kindness but I cannot always. I dont even want him to answer my previous question because it would deminish my own intellect getting into conversation with him. wow

You don’t have an intellect so what would be diminished? You are a classic case. He’s crazy but you believe in a fairy tale and you are normal? Remember only 144,000 will get into heaven and I’m pretty sure that won’t include the 1,000 flavors of Christianity. There are over 6 billion people on this planet. 144,000 is a very small minority that don’t follow the dogma laid out by religion.

“Brandon” ? please quote parts of my post that explain my lunacy? and if anyone else agrees, please for my own curiosity show me. I shared my experience so far with religion/spirituality. I didn’t come on here to argue with christian’s but I will admit I got a little carried away, stressing my belief which is conflict with yours and it was late when i wrote it, so i was tired and ranted on a bit. By the way I’m not an atheist either, I’m agnostic I guess, I don’t know if god exists…I don’t believe in religion, I think its caused more harm than good. “Be realistic” is right in saying that a world without religion, if possible, is a long way off but with sources like the internet, people are waking up to the intolerance and harm it has caused over the centuries. I would be very surprised if there isn’t a guiding hand to the universes construction but I don’t believe the path to it is in religion. That being said, I came on here cause I see the messages the pop artists are sending out and the satanic imagery in their music vids. Which keeps my mind and eyes open and my ears listening. …….

“Brandon” I know of ‘martin luther’ what he did, his “95 theses.” Although he disagreed with much of the roman catholic doctrine, he still misinterpreted the bible adding words like “only” which he added to the bible in places that dramatically change the meaning of the text because of his own interpretation of scripture. Do the research as I have and you will find martin luther did disagree with the idea of hell introduced by the catholic church but the influence of this idea didn’t just come from the roman catholic church but also from greek mythology and this doctrine had set it the minds of the “gentiles.” Later “hell” popped up in the bible grossly and overly in the king george version of the bible. The OT does not refer to it and jewish people do not believe in it. “Hell” was mistranslated from 4 different words in the OT and NT. These words are: sheol, gehenna, hades and tartarus. The hebrew word “sheol” which many claim means “the grave,” means the place of the “sleeping” dead, not hell. The grave in hebrew is “queber.” Sheol is a place for the “sleeping” dead but if that means hell, than even king david when he died was put there in “sheol,” would he be in eternal torment? “gehenna” meaning ‘valley of hinnom’ a real place in Jerusalem where they would put dead criminals, is used figuratively as a place people should avoid but that does not necessarily mean “Hell.” “Tartarus” was used once in the NT and it is a greek word meaning the lowest parts of “hades” (the underworld) reserved for Fallen angels, also mistranslated as “hell” but we know that fallen angels/demons torment people in the world according to the bible, so I believe this is figurative for their state of being, in rebellion with god and in their own personal “Hell,” not necessarily a place called “hell.” Basically I’m stressing the point that men over the years have translated the bible according to their own personal beliefs and understanding. Therefore changing original meanings to perverted definitions…..

And I’m not arguing with you whether Jesus exists. No point, more interested in showing how evil and perverse doctrine has infiltrated your religion.

“No point, more interested in showing how evil and perverse doctrine has infiltrated your religion”…………..no doubt. Exactly why not all get into heaven. But if you dont believe in Jesus you SURELY wont. It is so sad to me knowing there are so many out there like you. Just simply sad. I couldnt imaging living without purpose and hope like you. You actually think your life consists of just being here right now and thats it. So lost. Good luck fellow brother

Here is the bottom line and Im done altogether because we can go on forever back and forth. You cannot prove to me Jesus didnt exist and God isnt real anymore than I can PROVE to you they are. But here is my point. It does not need to be proven. You can have faith or you cannot. You will spend youre entire LIFE trying to prove crap lol. Millions have WASTED their life trying for centuries. To no avail because you still sit there with nothing DEFINITE to argue with. If you take EVERY single King, Ruler, Inventor, and historical figure in all of time and put them together, they do not come even CLOSE to having the impact on human history that ONE man did with no posessions and who lived a simple kind life with one message. That is Jesus. Wow that should tell you something. Stop being bitter about your life and see it for its real purpose! Good luck non believers. You have EVERYTHING to lose if youre wrong not us

dude… you clearly did not read my words. I never said I was trying to disprove the existence of god. I proved the bible mistranslated and exposed the making’s of false doctrine, that is definite. My main argument is the false doctrine of “eternal torment” for non believers. “Hell” as a place for god’s apparent ‘so loved’ creations, to go after death, to be tortured for all eternity, is a retarded concept and not the making’s of a loving or intelligent god.. It’s a good way to get converts, naive and susceptible people, i.e. using fear. It’s the making’s of sinister men, to control and dominate people. There are christian’s though that don’t believe god would let his creation’s go there, so they say he won’t let anyone perish.. they have the intellect to see how ridiculous it is, even though they are brainwashed too. All that believe this doctrine are brainwashed, fact. the most evil doctrine and i rebuke it! Not even the bible, it supposedly came from, supports it. …

“Exactly why not all get into heaven” ….That is the driving thought and fear and objective, “gotta get into heaven,” no matter what or how or who i stomp on, cause I’m scared of going to hell…. So god would appreciate a man more for not striving to be good but just believing in the story of his sacrificed son, that constantly preached bettering thy self? and would he appreciate we blindly believe what’s written there from a misinterpreted, mistranslated unreliable source? that’s the end of my argument…

We all got off topic, We’re here because these mainstream pop sensations are producing sinister song’s and controversial/ suspicious music videos, now we need to find out why. Yes, we could say its “evil” it’s “devil worship” easy from a religious christian perspective but if there is any truth to that, many that don’t look at it from that perspective are gonna be turned off by it because it’s coming from “eternal torment” believing christian’s, that would probably add to the argument something like, “see, the devil is real! worship Jesus and you can escape hell and go to heaven.”

Dont lump bad Christians in with the good ones out there. Thats your whole purpose of arguing against religion. Does the Bible say ALL Christians will go to Heaven? NOPE sure doesnt. That is a good thing bc the misleading Christians are more dangerous than athiests in my opinion. Look what theyve done to you. Do you realize….it takes just as much faith for you to believe what you do as it does our faith to believe in Jesus. Yet you make fun of ours? Think about it…Youre lost pal and you should really try looking into the good life (not Kanye’s version)

Right now Kanye West is numb. He does not sense his spirit is rotting. One day when the lights fade and the crows go home. He will contemplate what everything means. Then the realism of eternal damnation will set in. He probably will be so consumed by fear he will turn to drugs and alcohol and paid for women.

To the satanist fame and fortune is grand. Then its time to pay the price.

B&E: I agree with you. I have watched this demonic guy and his antics, and he was nothing until he sold himself to the devil. All you write is quite evident of West’s true agenda. However, I want your take on this: West has recently been quoted as speaking out vehemently against Obama. What do you think is up with that? Probably all a ruse, or did West get smacked down by the Illuminati for some reason or another?

Hey AnnMari – My initial thought on his rant was that it was a ploy to get attention, something he has desperately craved in the past. He has tried to fuel his fame partly through making controversial statements, so this could the latest example.

IlluminatiWatcher:
Great article, wow! You’ve put some thought into this, great juxtaposition of Biblical references to Kanye. He seems to be following right down that same path that many in the entertainment industry do (e.g. Britney Spears, Madonna, Rihanna, etc.). Just take a look at Dave Chappelle, he was offered the deal with the devil and he refused and just dipped. That’s a man who is humble, right and true to himself.

Also, just as a little extra something to throw onto this article, going back to Isaiah 14:12-15, the quote where it says “Lucifer, son of the morning” is the prominent part of the hook heard on Jay-Z’s “Lucifer” from his black album, and the producer is none other than Kanyeezy West. I’ve been covering a lot of Rihanna stuff lately, she seems to be headed down that same dark path.

Religion is not the main key of gaining entrance into heaven, my brothers and sisters, it is a means which we use to keep strong what we DO need to get to heaven; and that is FAITH; Faith in JESUS CHRIST and faith in GOD the Father, and faith in the HOLY SPIRIT by which we are all kept safe and able to rebuke Satan..

John, 14:6 Jesus saith unto them, (his disciples) “I am the truth, the life and the way. No man cometh unto the father but by me.”

Eight days after Jesus’ death he appeared unto the disciples in the upper room, Thomas being with them in John Chapter 20, Verses 26 through 29 .

26 And after eight days agina his disciples were withinm and Thomas weith them: then came Jesus, the doors beig shut, and stood in teir midst, and said “Peace be unto you.”
27 Then saith he to Thomas “Reach hither thy finger and behold my hands: and reach hither thy hand and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.’
28 And Thomas answered and said ubto him, “My Lord and my God.”
29 Jesus saith unto him “Thomas, because thou hast seen me thous hast bilieved; but blessed are they that HAVE NOT SEEN, and yt have believed.”

All it takes is faith my beotheres and sisters in Christ, I love you each and every one, and I pray for all mankind that they will find salvation throught Jesus Christ who died on the cross to save us all…I even pray for Kanye West and Jay-Z as well as all the rest of the poor people who’ve been fooled by the lies coming from the Prince of Darkness.

This whole thing made me feel sick. I feel so sad for Kanye. He is most certainly deceived. Let us pray for him to come back to Jesus. Let us pray for everyone we can who is caught up in of all Satan’s lies.

Thank you for what you are doing. We are most certainly living in the End Times. How much longer will the Lord allow people to be so blasphemous towards him? Jesus Christ is Lord and King. There is nothing this world can offer me to throw away my faith in Christ! God Bless!

While yours isn’t the 1st site I’ve been on w/ information that technically regards illuminati, I will say it is the first site I’ve commented on. It seems like a lot of the religious conversations involved in this article have spurred a great deal of heated emotions between people. I will say this much though, it would probably be best to have an alternative motive articulately formatted for things like this in any case -not because the religious motive isn’t necessarily imperative, but because anything the illuminati does normally has a motive that is politically and socially relevant as much as it is religious. If I were to take a generalized guess when it comes to this kind of stuff…in general, I’d say it’s probably more than likely nothing more than subliminal messaging, psychological warfare, religious defamation, and/or a ploy to distract us from the illuminati’s true ambitions…whateever they were at that time ;>_>

ON another note I will say one thing in regards to the agnostic and aetheists who made posts in regards to god. The 2 points they made in particular….are 2 points I always question when it comes to god’s nature -one I didn’t even necessarily “fully” know about ’till just now. The case in which the talk about members of the Vatican and furthermore- members from the Old English Monarchy (in addition to the Roman Empire) is a valid one. If there were people back then editing the word of god to such a degree how is anyone truly suppose to know which information in the bible is valid and which is invalid; how is anyone suppose to know if what they’re doing is truly the right thing or if what they’re doing is a corrupt fabrication -and I’m not even taking the illuminati itself into account. For all anyone knows there could have tons of scriptures from the bible that they could be coveting(which may be a bit of an exaggeration -but you get my point ) for the sole purpose of keeping people blind and at their mercy. How is there anyway cipher between which rule is fact and which is fiction.

The 2nd point that he made regards to god is how many people get into heaven. Out billions of people 144,000 get into heaven? I doubt that’s even half of populous within the entire world who are devout to his teachings, yet alone who actually believe in god. All the people who go to church…all the people follow the word…all the people who do Samaritan acts…and ONLY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS get in? what happens to everyone else…?

And on another related note why is it that ONLY Christians are allowed in to heaven? You take into account people like Mohatma Ghandi who died for a cause that himself would consider righteous, and yet he’s to spend the rest of his life in hell. And not just people “like” Mahatma Gandhi -people in general. There are plenty of good people out there, people who maybe a believer of god within the religion of judaism and islam -and while they are aware of christianity and the holy trinity, they are not allowed to except Jesus as they’re god because their religion forbids it. Jesus is an element in both of those religions that have values quite similar to the very ones found in christianity and yet because those individuals do not except Jesus as their lord and savior they won’t get into heaven?

Why would a god who is truly benevolent create good only to watch it suffer in hell. Why would would a truly benevolent god create so many to save so few. Why would he send people into others lives to deliver them the word only to show them of alternate path the takes as much fate as his. If I were a Muslim and I believe in god, I practice his teachings, and I live as a truly benevolent person is it truly “just” that I get sent to hell because my religion acknowledges Jesus as one of god’s prophets but does not ultimately recognize him as his son?

My point is this, there are plenty of things we don’t know in regards to the illuminati -but they’re are just as many things we don’t know about religion (or at least what we potentially don’t know). God’s word might be just and final, but a better question to ask is while his will is final is it truly definite? After all if only god knows when the end of days is coming then ultimate he’s the one who’ll decide when it happens regardless of what the bible says….
But in any case I think I should clarify that I’m still kinda’ green to all this conspiracy stuff ^_^”…I’ve read several articles seen several videos, but that’s about it. TBH it’s both unsettling and a relief at the same time. A relief because I was able to find sites in which they are members within society trying to combat such a menace. Unsettling because I don’t necessarily know how to live anymore -not from a religious standpoint (while my earlier comment should show that as a chore -_-“) but from a social one as it’s hard to know what I can and can’t do. I like to watch television but I don’t know what’s okay for me to watch out of paranoia. I can’t enjoy music the way I necessarily wanted to because I don’t know what song is just a song or if it’s some form of subliminal messaging. Same with food and same with college….it’s…hard to do anything…when everything you’re being told could potentially be a lie. Especially if your initial ambition was to go into the field of art and/or entertainment (not to mention some of the values I had initially got from the programs I did watch were those of proactivity, courage, being a good person, and fighting for what you believe in)….all-in-all, my state of mind is the general reason why I picked the name I did. Also sorry for the long post.

I read the whole article, and all the comments.
I just want to correct some mistake…there are way more than 144000
Otherwise I found it very informational and if anyone is interested t know my opinion, these symbolisms can’t even br proven to be used in order to blaspheme God or Jesus. How do we know he is not claiming Jesus and God, or not claiming a God at all, or his self as God. Does he respond to these accusations of worshiping the enemy of God, or who he once claimed…Jesus? Do they speak about their religious beliefs? Speaking about evil accounts and influencing change through words and not faith that God is the giver of gifts and will give faith to those who ask. If God is real, and all you have to do is confess the lord jesus as your lord and saviour, and ask and you shall receive, that means I can just do that then ask for faith and get faith. I believe this principle will wok if God is real, and will not work if he is not real. If he loves us, he will hold true to his promise. Its late and this posting box is running too slow for me to fix and re-type so I will leave a revised version of this comment later b

After reading this blog post, I sort of reminded myself of when I was all about Illuminati, Freemasons, 666 and I had a blog in which I was posting a lot of this stuff… Today I can look back with amusement on that period 🙂
First of all, there is no Illuminati conspiracy. There was one an Illuminati organization in Bavaria which was destroyed… and that’s it. The idea that Illuminati somehow were revived, is total non-sense. The French Revolution was not planned by Illuminati, it was because people were starving, there was a long economic depression and the king didn’t care…
Secondly, there is no global conspiracy. Rockefeller, Morgan, Bill Gates, etc… are not part of any Illuminati bloodlines… They are extremely rich, and that makes them a target. If they were planning to kill 90% of the population, they wouldn’t have so many money invested in charity… Billions, upon billions of dollars in charity…
Third… even if it was a conspiracy, the people in charge wouldn’t be idiots to make themselves visible and leave evidence of their existence… If there is a global conspiracy, its well hidden and you couldn’t know it….
Fourth… Kanye West is no Illuminati singer. The fact is, he is just creative. Those stars from “The New Workout Plan” and “Amazing” are simply stars… Can’t be something else. The “Power” video… Kanye admitted that he was inspired by ancient mythology.
Lastly… his new songs are more raw, and he even says that people that buy crap all day are “the new slaves” and proclaims “f— you and your corporation” :).
Please stop posting all this crap. Turn to the real stuff 🙂

I couldnt agree more avramel. This B and G is first of all a coward. He is so focused on Revalations and Illuminati I really dont think he understands Christianity for its true meaning. He ignores half of the non believers posts because he doesnt have enough brains to answer them back. He uses scripture but no historical knowledge or common sense to respond. Get a life B and G and go out and spread the word to people. Stop using paranoia. Where is your scripture that says you need to accuse others and just scare people with Revelations to bring them to Jesus? Ill answer that for you there isnt one. NOONE can decipher Revelations and its a sin to try. Again…reread the bible and translate it for its real purpose.

I agree to an extent. The scriptures are written in parables on purpose so those with wisdom will be able to know the true meaning behind them. It is not a sin to want to know truth. The problem is Christians don’t realize that all of the symbols and rituals they perform predate Christianity.

Avramel or whatever your name is…listen, I’m only 16 years and Im pretty sure I know a lot more about this , than you will ever know in your entire life, simply because you’re ignorant to the fact that there a spiritual forces acting right now, everything they do, there’s a reason.

i want to share my life story to the world how i become rich today, i was a very poor man no home and no money to take care of my family and my aged mother, in search to become something in life i saw this email
address on the internet and i contacted him and with the following email address: illuminatisuccesshouse@yahoo.com and he introduce me to the baphomet secret cult and in non less than one month i was bless by the gods of the temple and today i am one the richest motor parts deiler in Africa today. for your own help i want you to contact him today with his email address (illuminatisuccesshouse@yahoo.com ) for your own life to experience change and for you to dwell in the world of mone.

So all of u have such bad things to say about this article
And about how full of crap it is but then why spend time reading it?
I thought it wAs informative and what would inspire u to pit jesus on a cross in hell?
Inspiration is a whisper in ur ear its a glimps of the subconciouse.
Looking @ the ocean can inspire listening to the birds can inspire.
Looking @ d devils face and eating hiS words can inspire.
I believe that music is a door way

Hi people….it’s a good thing to share those facts and those truths about the ILLUMINATI hidden messages whiche become no more hidden in these last years BUT…the goal of ILLUMINATI is to make us believe them … to have fear of the big ILLUMINATI SOCIETY…. but don’t you thing somehow that the goal is more deep than that ?? I think those who are sending these hiden messages knew that people like us will try to understan these messages which means that we will give them time to learn about their messages and blablabla…what I want to say is that GOD creates us to worship him so people don’t wast your time following and decripting the illuminati messages because they know that you will look for these messages and then you become just like their toys….GO AND WORSHIP YOUR GOD (ALLAH) BEFORE IT WILL COME A DAY WHEN YOU WILL HAVE NO CHANCE TO RETURN BACK FOR JUST ONE PRAYER…DON’T WASTE TIME….LEARN ABOUT TRUE RELIGION BECA– USE THIS WHY WE ARE HERE ON EARTH…AND THEN WORSHIP YOUR GOD FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE….ILLUMINATI IS JUST A WASTE OF TIME…THEY KNOW AND WE KNOW.

I think it’s quite hysterical to see you guys fall over yourselves in a flood of bad grammar, poor articulation, and terrible arguments. While I applaud you for taking the time to write an entire article on how Kanye West is so evil and such a heavy hitter in the satanic department, I also deplore you for taking the time to write an entire article on how Kanye West is so evil and such a heavy hitter in the satanic department. To me, such time wasted is such time lost. You speak of how Kanye this and Kanye that. Let me ask you a question: What happened to all the other powerful figures? You know, the ones that hold true power. Did they go somewhere?

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but talking about Kanye West is like talking about small potatoes, dull and forgetful. I predict not many people are going to remember his music in twenty years, so even talking about him is a waste of time. And while “Satan is evil” this and “Satan made me kill my babies” that sure makes an excellent argument, I can most assuredly tell you now that creating a slew of excuses for the things people do is probably one of the worst tactics I’ve ever seen.

Kanye isn’t some religious mastermind. He isn’t the head of a secretive board of demon summoners. He is just a meandering drunk man that directs music videos and wears fancy jewelry. Nothing about him other than his absurd behavior warrants that he promotes anything but drunken debauchery. If the argument is that Kanye promotes the devil (which I’m sure he doesn’t) then the argument applies to every single person making a profit off of thousands of music artists, painters, songwriters, directors, producers, and the people who partake in the whole mess. If you’ve watched television guess what? You’re just as bad as Kanye West, because apparently God doesn’t give out any free passes whatsoever (I like the old testament the best. It reads like the bloodied sands of the Colosseum. The new testament is just a made up feel-good story someone wrote to keep people from raising their eyebrows, that isn’t to say the Bible is true on its face necessarily).

What was I saying? Oh yes! Relevance. Other than garner publicity to ‘save youngsters’ Kanye West has nothing to do with anything at all! There are plenty of other characters out there that fit the satanic personality a bit better. I remember Ozzy, and people still talk about the guy. Too bad he isn’t as popular now as he was 20 years ago. Wait, is that true? I hear he still makes music and still sells as many albums. Why not talk about him? Or Metallica? Or anyone else?

Kanye is the one guy in a room full of bar patrons that I would not pick to be on my team in a fight. Why? Because he just isn’t a tough devoted guy. Unfortunately for him, he’s popular. And, as always without exception, there are religious blokes banging two books together looking to start a fire. Give it up guys. The fight is over. We don’t need another article on how a celebrity that is popular is bad and evil. Really, we don’t. Even if you don’t listen to me, listen to your own kool-aid! Turn the other cheek man! You really aren’t doing anything more than pointing a finger and saying “Look, that guy is a bad guy”. You should probably delve a bit more deeper into the other systems we have in place. Wallstreet comes to mind. Or maybe Las Vegas? It’s been quite some time since I’ve seen one of those arguments.

Please, just give it a rest, for your sake. It really only hurts your (Christians) image. You always label Atheists (me) and others that we’re judging you because we hate your God. No. We’re judging you by all the stupid crap that tumbles out of your mouths, not your God. How can we hate something that we don’t even thinks exists in the first place? Think about that for a moment. I say I hate the sound your cow makes when it snores. Do you have a cow? I’m not sure if you do or not, but even if I do hate your cow (and cows exist by the way) I’ve never even met or seen your cow, much less heard the thing snore, or even if it does snore.

Sure, we can’t predict what one other person will say, but you guys (unlike me and a billion others) are inevitably all lumped together. So if one guy says he is Christian and says all the gays and lesbians should be put to death, you can’t take his tongue, roll it up, and stuff it back in his mouth can you? It’s already too late and it’s out in the open. It also doesn’t matter what sect of Christianity you’re in. It is almost always clumped into one big color on the pie chart. And even if you believe what some other ‘Christians’ say, those other ‘none Christians’ are all fakes and liars (sarcasm). Sure, and all we do is twiddle our thumbs and jump at the chance to make the page (Take a look at PETA. Mario skins animals for fun? What?) even if we know the info is wrong. I’m not defending Kanye (or promoting him or whatever) but I am actually protecting the US Constitution by saying “Hey! He has a right to do whatever he wants, until he hurts himself or others”. I firmly believe that. It’s what gives you the right to talk about him in ways I’m sure he doesn’t approve of, and me the right to call into question the relevance of the article.

Before I go, a few things. To help stop all of the “hating on Christians” and what not: Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged Thyself (mis-quoted, but not by much).

Another piece is that no publicity is bad publicity. By creating this article, you created another search ping for Kanye West, which I’m sure you want to avoid because facebook (don’t have one, never will) and twipper (or whatever it is) spreads this news around like fire. Example: “Hey dude, read some article about Christians dissing Kanye bro. Not cool.” see? I’m sure someone thought of that when they read this article.

Lastly (if you’ve made it this far I commend you) I remember a time when someone explained to me the similarities between Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs (i.e. Vagos, Mongols, Hells Angels, Gypsy Jokers, Bandidos) and it was a very compelling argument. These guys go to church too, just not ‘Church’ church. A lot of them don’t trust outsiders (you can thank your buddies that still hate gay people. I don’t hate people by what or how they are, but who they are. Remember that and take it to heart.) they dislike others telling them what’s what (police = atheists in this instance) and a lot of them are of the Christian faiths. There are good and bad Christians. Good and bad Atheists, and every other type of person on the planet. There are also good and bad articles. This is a bad article. It makes the entire faith sound like a joke, which it sin’t supposed to be. I hope I’ve helped.

But you don’t find it weird how most music is telling humans to worship satan if you don’t think so listen to them but really listen and you will hear clearly how they mock god and promote satan now im not a smartass like most of you here i just know one thing for certain god is real he has shown himself to me in many ways he resurrected my drowned daughter right before my eyes and continues to do many works in my life my brothers and sisters do not waste your time arguing with non believers if they do not believe then show them the supernatural power of god through us his children idk about the churches yall go to but at my church people get healed lives are changed and the holy spirit is felt strongly i am not here to argue im just saying show them by works and if you wanna discredit my claims go ahead but atleast look us up at king jesus ministries in south florida perfoming miracles in this modern day

Shalom all I have to agree, for as sin abound, grace abound even more so. I see daily the Hand of a Mighty GOD. Cancer, twice the LORD allowed me to pray for people and they were healed. One instance the woman had less than 3 weeks to live. The Doctor said she will not be able to see her results, but GOD had other plans. Spinal cord, brain and stomach cancer have I seen removed by GOD. Indeed the anti christ is at work, but GOD even more so. Arise shine for your glory has come.

son of god:
But you don’t find it weird how most music is telling humans to worship satan if you don’t think so listen to them but really listen and you will hear clearly how they mock god and promote satan now im not a smartass like most of you here i just know one thing for certain god is real he has shown himself to me in many ways he resurrected my drowned daughter right before my eyes and continues to do many works in my life my brothers and sisters do not waste your time arguing with non believers if they do not believe then show them the supernatural power of god through us his children idk about the churches yall go to but at my church people get healed lives are changed and the holy spirit is felt strongly i am not here to argue im just saying show them by works and if you wanna discredit my claims go ahead but atleast look us up at king jesus ministries in south florida perfoming miracles in this modern day

Bishlaam in CHRIST:
Shalom all I have to agree, for as sin abound, grace abound even more so. I see daily the Hand of a Mighty GOD. Cancer, twice the LORD allowed me to pray for people and they were healed. One instance the woman had less than 3 weeks to live. The Doctor said she will not be able to see her results, but GOD had other plans. Spinal cord, brain and stomach cancer have I seen removed by GOD. Indeed the anti christ is at work, but GOD even more so. Arise shine for your glory has come.

These are both really poor arguments. Is it so strange to understand that so many people do not believe in God? All music promotes Satanism? Really? That’s your argument? What do you paint me for, some kind of moron? “. . .most music tells humans to worship Satan.” Great. So you’ve never listened to music then? Not only is that really sad, but it is an argument that doesn’t even make any sense whatsoever.

Second, music has been around from the time people began to make noise in rhythm. That means from forever onward. That must mean that the Devil created music then, by your standards? That doesn’t mean much, considering I have an extremely extensive library of music that holds no mention to any religious icon whatsoever, so your point it moot.

Third. The fact that these people you both prayed for were ‘miraculously’ saved is almost insulting. Think about all the soldiers that died that were praying as hard as they could. Even as hot metal shredded their lungs and eviscerated their bodies, their prayers were not answered. They weren’t saved. They’re dead. Who knows, maybe they were studying physics or medicine to cure some terrible disease? Or maybe they were going to school to become a teacher to make a difference in the world? To say that “this is God’s will” is not only ignorant, rude, and inconsiderate. Think of how ridiculous you sound when you say “It’s God’s will”. You can get inside the mind of something so vast, so knowledgeable, something that the human mind cannot possibly conceive? You know what it wants and doesn’t want? Okay then. It’s God’s will to kill. To end life as it sees fit. It must be true. Millions die every year because God doesn’t save them. Don’t you see how stupid that sounds?

It doesn’t make sense that it’s God’s will to end the lives of millions does it? So why does it make any more sense that it spares the lives of others? It doesn’t. To argue that “some omnipotent being wills it” acts as a double bladed sword. It doesn’t make me believe, and it doesn’t make you sound any smarter, it just cuts deep that you’re bold enough to say that you prayed for a singular person and they were saved, when hundreds of husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters die, even though someone was praying for them. I would suggest treading lightly on who you speak to about the lives you’ve saved through prayer. It may yield unwanted and potentially dangerous results.

Thanks for your passionate comments. I want to just respond to one particular point you made:

Third. The fact that these people you both prayed for were ‘miraculously’ saved is almost insulting. Think about all the soldiers that died that were praying as hard as they could. Even as hot metal shredded their lungs and eviscerated their bodies, their prayers were not answered. They weren’t saved. They’re dead. Who knows, maybe they were studying physics or medicine to cure some terrible disease? Or maybe they were going to school to become a teacher to make a difference in the world? To say that “this is God’s will” is not only ignorant, rude, and inconsiderate. Think of how ridiculous you sound when you say “It’s God’s will”. You can get inside the mind of something so vast, so knowledgeable, something that the human mind cannot possibly conceive? You know what it wants and doesn’t want? Okay then. It’s God’s will to kill. To end life as it sees fit. It must be true. Millions die every year because God doesn’t save them. Don’t you see how stupid that sounds?

This is an excellent and powerful point. Some people pray for health and live. Some people pray for health and die. This is the reality of the human condition. 100%. We are the ones killing each other, not God. When soldiers shoot at each other on the battlefield, who is making them do it? God? Of course not. When millions of women abort babies in the womb, did God make them do it? No. It was their choice. It is humans who kill, assault and abuse each other. In this equation you are making, you must never leave out humanity’s giddy willingness to sin. Thus the entire planet is not cursed.

This world is not how The Lord originally intended. The Bible says that it was sin that brought death and destruction into the world. And we all inherit that same sin nature from our first father, Adam. And thus every single person who has lived, stands judged and condemned before God for the sins we have committed and keep committing. Every person except one – Jesus Christ The Lord. While our physical lives here are precious to us, our eternal, spiritual life is far more important. And that is what God is interested in saving. This world has to be reformed and remade for us to live in peace and harmony with God once again. And thus our souls need to be saved in order to see that new world. And that is what Jesus Christ died for. Jesus said: “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” (Mark 8:36). This planet will not be redeemed or rescued but our souls can. Jesus came for that purpose. He gave His life to take the punishment we deserve for the wars, murder, raping, abuse, racism, thefts and all other horrific sins humanity has CHOSEN to commit over the millennia. And by being a perfect sacrifice, He allowed us to go to Heaven and live on the New Earth that will come, forever. And all we have to do is believe in Him.

Satan wants you to think that this world is the end-all, be all. That there is nothing more to life, so we have to put all our stock in our experience right now (“YOLO”). This is a lie. If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us. And we will have eternal life, whether we die today or at the age of 100. This is the point of the Bible. This is what it’s all about. And I do not want you to miss that message.

Here is “God’s Will”:

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. – John 3:17

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance – 2 Peter 3:9.

God wants the entire world to live forever. everyone. But it starts with repentance. Acknowledging our sin and believing in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of those sins. And God provided this plan out of love. Rather than put God on trial and reject Him, why not take the time to get to know Him first?

So yes, you make a very accurate and raw point: there are people clinging to life who will pray today to live longer and they will die. This is very, very true. Just as there are some who will live. But guess what? 100% of all people who pray to God for their eternal life, believing in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, WILL LIVE. Absolutely. They will never truly die, because they will have eternal life and will close their eyes here and open them a moment later in Heaven. And once the new world on Earth is prepared for Jesus to rule, they will come and live here once again, but this time, with no fear of dying ever again.

I hope and pray that you will be there as well.

“Whosoever shall call upon the name of The Lord shall be saved.” – Romans 10:13.

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Hello, I have a little story to tell.. I was born and raised in southern California by Mexican parents. I’m the first generation here in the states. My father grew up in a monestary with Jesuits then attended the university of Mexico then UCLA. We had a very extensive religious education growing up. I remember in elementary and middle school I felt as if I were the only person who went to church and loved Jesus. Selfish of me to say but I noticed everyone was so captivated by material goods. Were not rich but were not poor either. I’m a very artistic person since a child. I took art, singing, dancing and piano lessons. I was really emotional growing up too. Anything would make me cry. Then highschool came along and I felt I was competing for my life. I eventually went to fidm and found myself in a world of drugs and sex. Everywhere I went I felt as though people knew me. I felt controlled. One day my father called me and told me to come home. My mother was constantly crying and she wasn’t the same. So I came home 🙂 of course I got very sad myself. I felt trapped, that I xouldnt express myself. I got really depressed. I started praying day and night and I even started fasting. I started saying really weird things. I became delusional. I started yelling really loud because I felt an anger inside I couldn’t deal with. I remember running outside one day and my face morphed and my tongue extended really long and I hissed.. that morning I began to cry like a baby and I felt something come out of my nose and hit me really hard.. its like I levatated. I remember just laying there and I wasn’t breathing and I had no heart beat. I heard my name but I knew if I left my mother would not last so I asked to come back. It was like I was a little kid again. My face and eyes completely changed and my skin felt new. I thought things would get better but they got worse. I was being chased and tormented. I heard and saw things is rather not say. I ended up in a mental institute and I was tied down for days and who knows what else happened. One day I was sitting praying, I was so scared and someone came up to me. He was a man, but a bigger man. He wasn’t black but I know he was from somewhere exotic. He told me he was barnebus.. my guardian angel. He told m al lot but one thing that stuck with me was.. when I act like an adult I will be treated like an adult. That my time was coming and he would see me later. I wish I could say things got better but they didn’t. Shortly after I was working my my dad and I saw everyone look at me. I heard some in Spanish say: me lo quiren Matar.. which mean they want to kill him. I went outside and smelt a horrible gas and I tried not breathing it in. I asked my dad to drive me to the beach and I was being followed by guys in unmarked cars and helicopters. I started gagging ang throwing up that gas I had inhaled. It was hurting my lungs and heart. I finally got to the beach and I could of walked directly in and the water wouldn’t of touched me. God was with me 🙂 weeks later I was with my dad and a big truck pulled up and started taking pictures saying that’s him, that’s him. They came up to me and showed me their CIA badges and asked if I wanted to be famous.. I said no. They asked me again and again and I said no. Since then life has been hard but I know Jesus is coming and God is with us. Metatronhas helped me too. I haven’t seen him but I know he’s around. Even we might have gifts as glorious as God.. WE ARE NOT GOD! we never will be. We are perfect being embraced by God with love and light. We are here to protect and serve. To make our neighbors and families happy. I know there’s something diabolical going on. I can feel the anxiety and hopelessness. I’m so happy that I’m alive and I’m the source of my parents constant happiness and they are mine. I will forever be with God and I will forever be thankful for Jesus Christ my lord and savior.. oh yea and I feel the catholic church I went to was in on all of thist as humans we are imperfect so I dont care. Bunch of —lol :)) and I laugh.

Beware of the book called the “The secret”, but don’t get me wrong, Im a for positive thinking. Its just the idea of the book itself. The secret is really just occult knowledge…

Law of Attraction

July 2007

IS THE LAW OF ATTRACTION BLACK OR WHITE MAGIC?

Thirty years ago, I watched a group of men in suits standing in a circle and chanting on top of Glastonbury Tor, one of Earths great sacred sites. Afterwards I asked what they were doing and one replied that they were chanting for business and financial success. I was shocked. I shouldnt have been so nave.

The following year I decided to leave my career and take spiritual retreat. I lived for two years in southern Morocco, in the High Atlas Mountains thirty miles south of Marrakech. Towards the centre of this walled ancient city there is a square of shops and stalls dedicated purely to magical paraphernalia and sorcery – bats wings, toads eyes, spiders webs and stuff that would shock you if I named them. One day I was shopping for some incense and a stallholder asked me the most basic of questions: Is it for God or for the Devil? For him the question was as straightforward as a wine merchant asking whether you wanted red or white wine. He was not asking a moral question. He simply needed to know what frequency the incense should vibrate. This is the most fundamental and practical of questions when working with energies or, in another language, magic.

Like attracts like

All magic and sorcery is based on the principle that similar vibrations are attracted to each other. This is the fundamental Law of Attraction or what was identified as sympathetic magic, a phrase used by the Victorian anthropologist J.G. Frazer in his famous book The Golden Bough.

So, for example, if you have a negative attitude and radiate negative energy, you will put yourself in resonance with other peoples negative energy and attract it to you. Equally if you vibrate with positive energy, you will be harmonically resonant with positive energy and it too will be magnetically connected and attracted to you.

Let me give two more examples. If someone wants an attractive and intelligent partner, then that person needs to be attractive and intelligent in the first place, so as to be magnetically similar. Someone vibrating with neediness will only attract someone else with the same vibe. The second example is from talismanic magic. If you want to make a talisman to help you be more courageous, then you attract courageous energy through appropriate objects that resonate with courage such as images of Mars and heroism, the metal iron, the colour red and so on. Using these objects as tuning sticks or receptors, you then attract in the frequency of courage.

All of this is sympathetic magic following the law of attraction. It has been taught, usually in secret, for thousands of years. There are also add-ons and techniques which cam amplify its power.ï¿½ When I first began to study this field of energy work in my early twenties, my teachers reminded me to make a clear decision. Was I engaged in white or black magic? The High Art or the Low Art? Selfish or generous? Love or Greed? God or the Devil?

Energy work and the law of attraction can be used to feather your personal nest of materialism or it can be used as a spiritual path.

As a spiritual strategy, the law of attraction is used for positive good, for example, in healing, in communing with the natural world and in opening up to the benevolent flow of the universe. This is true personal development.

Material wealth and financial success do not bring personal fulfillment. (Let me be clear though. I like money and I want everyone on this planet to be clothed, fed, educated, safe, comfortable and happy.) I have known many rich people, but I have never seen money reaching deep into their emotional healing. Many people who have lots of money behave like selfish, anxious criminals. I do not recall any great spiritual teachers suggesting material wealth as a path to enlightenment and love. Buddha renounced the material world and was explicit about desire being the source of human suffering. Christ suggested that the love of money is the source of all evil and that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

True Abundance

So what is real prosperity and abundance? It is surely the experience of being connected to the profound richness of cosmic existence infinite creativity and abundance. How does all the gold on earth compare to the fire of the Sun or the power that produced our galaxy? To fully experience spirit, the Tao, God whatever you call it is this wonderful sensation and awareness of being connected with and part of the oceanic flow of a never-ending creative cosmic event. Prosperity is not to do with material riches. It is a cosmic spiritual experience.

Unfortunately, some people who teach about the laws of attraction and cosmic order have either forgotten or ignore the cosmic dimension.ï¿½ Sometimes they even show off about their material success and have the cheek to claim they are being spiritual or are sharing a great secret.

Worse than that, to promise material success as a solution to lifes problems is morally wrong and psychologically stupid.ï¿½ It is a false promise. How does it support anyones true soul calling? It may confuse people who are already disorientated by the harmful glamour of social glitter. It is black magic.ï¿½ Money is not a substitute for love and healing.

Moreover this kind of materialist approach is ignorant about how sympathetic magic actually works with spiritual development. For example, financial success might be positively harmful for some peoples growth their personal lesson may be to find joy in poverty. In a case like this, the law of attraction when applied to money is bound to fail.

But, as we all know, the real failure here is falling for the spell of materialism. And the real success is in expanded consciousness and increased love.

For the individual stating that the calender was created by the Catholic church…..educate yourself a little more. From the minute i read that i knew the rest of your argument would be flawed and full of slippery slopes; just like the “proofs” provided by the so called “Drs.” on this thread.

Kanye like many other such as Eminem he bluntly stated on “Say Goodbye to Hollywood”…….”if i could go back i never woulda rapped, i sold my soul to the devil i’ll never get it back!”…..or on “Rock Bottom”…”i want the money, the women, the fortune and fame. Thats why i end up in hell scorching in flames”….they Freely express themselves. I dont know how much more clear this can get that the entertainment industry is satan gratest asset for lost and desperate souls. Remeber that satans greatest trick he played on mankind is to trick man that he doesent exist.

I feel bad for Dr.O but it is really hard to have a decent debate with a christian about the bible and god when you provide answers to the questions they ask yet it seems they dont either understand or just refuse to try and see another viewpoint. Non believers are not trying to change christians minds or decievers sent by satan or as one christian called me a brainwasher because i told her the history of saturaday. We just want you to understand our viewpoints and to agree to disagree,sadly on both sides of the arguements insults and emotions run high and dr. O has apoligizes countless times for letting his emotions run high and only one person has accepted his apology.

I really appreciate all that we all have to say about all matters of safety in humanity. But we all as Christians can be a very and I say this without minimizing it critical! We no the signs but judge as approval needs to be given by us as to who go’s to hell or not!
Even the Angle Michael didnt judge Satan after their battle.
We all fall short if not deep into our mess regardless of what lifestyle we’re all in we will be all subjects to temptation!
We Christians act like we don’t stink in anyway shape or form you all must have been doing something really bad like me before God “Dad” found out and called our attention on it to have to have lead us all to a piont of repentance right?
So who are we to throw anyone to hell?
We are all not dressed in white robes to be making any claims or judgments at any rait.
We talk to much about our faith but really do we ourselves practice what we preach?
I myself find it a challenge to have to only look at my flaws in all things possible, even when I correct my kids I tell myself I need to hear it to lol!
Look in all reality God is letting them be He is the one giving us room to turn and give it up to Him we should all do the same instead of talking about who is going to hell or not we should be praying and speeking into there lives our lives as well for a start to a healed and repented broken heart. We all should understand we are all at war and God said not to trust in man period! May God be at peace with us all!!

Strangely,
The iniquity of materialism is not limited to rappers but includes almost all of those in power over our lives. Usury which is a sin, is interest off debt. It is what is running the world. Everyone’s hands are dirty. The most evil of these institutions is the Federal Reserve. Credit and Debt are slavery and are the worst forms of evil. It is the people behind the scenes who fund all of this culture to lead us astray from god and into this false happiness which is so quickly over. The human life is short but eternal suffering is long. Part of the whole pact is success, but the person who makes this deal is always sacrificed at the end. The signs show up quickly. There is a feeling of uneasiness and then bad things happen. You can only continue the success if you sacrifice someone else instead or lead them astray. But, this isn’t coming from these performers, It comes from a well organized secret group with all the money in the world who work to destroy our souls.

Hi guys I would just like to say firstly the devil himself knows God better than we will ever know God he worshiped him longer than we ever will but the thing is it all falls back to Adam and the devil refusing to bow to Adam as God asked him! The devil doesn’t want gods position for goodness sake how silly must you be to even think this can’t you see it the devil wants to prove to God that we humans aren’t worthy and he is better than us and he will do everything in his power to deceive us! The devil still fears God he knows him better than us like I said before! How silly are us humans we are gods best creation and he gives us everything we need to arm ourself against the devil but when he whisperes to us we run to him but when it comes to God we can’t be bothered I’m talking in general here yea not singling anyone out! The devil has no control over us whatsoever he just bloody whisperes he beautifys sin making it look good that’s all that’s all he’s got although have you ever asked yourself why is it hard to do good but to do bad comes very easy? It takes a lot to master yourself it’s not easy I won’t go into that but what I would like to say is all the devil has done is decieve these followers of illuminati, skull and bones and so on its all an illusion but he has led them to believe they will control the world and so on and beat gods plan even though the devil knows it’s not possible to beat gods plan he’s just happy he done his job and decived them on the day of judgement these evil ruthless people will stand before God and beg for forgiveness and blame the devil but he will say I never forced you to do anything I gave you the idea and you were stupid enough to follow through with it! The illuminati will never succeed in taking over the universe this illusion they follow will come to fall very soon! Your sickness is from you, but you do not perceive it and your remedy is within you, but you do not sense it. You presume you are a small entity, but within you is enfolded the entire universe. You are indeed the evident book by who’s alphabet the hidden becomes manifest. Therefore you have no need to look beyond yourself. What you seek is within you, if only you reflect.