Especially the morote dori kokyo-ho and the iriminage between 02:07 and 02:25

SteveTrinkle

09-21-2006 05:24 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Can really see Yamaguchi Sensei influence. Very, very nice. Thanks.

NagaBaba

09-21-2006 08:33 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

With those ukes that follow whatever nage do, I'd be able to do not only the same but much better job, so I don't see nothing exciting on this video... :)

SteveTrinkle

09-21-2006 08:40 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Szczepan Janczuk wrote:

With those ukes that follow whatever nage do, I'd be able to do not only the same but much better job, so I don't see nothing exciting on this video... :)

That would be great! Please post your video.

Thanks

Mashu

09-21-2006 08:46 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

The All Japan Enbu Taikai demonstrations are not known for their spontaneity.

NagaBaba

09-22-2006 06:57 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Stephen Trinkle wrote:

That would be great! Please post your video.

Thanks

I know it would be great, the biggest problem is to find such good uke :p ..........mhmhm......any ideas? :D

MikeE

09-22-2006 07:38 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

I found his posture, ease of movement, and ki no nagare fantastic. Wow, Nagababa you must really be very good to have developed such movement (or better). Maybe I should come train with you and you could teach me.

Dennis Hooker

09-22-2006 08:26 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Or maybe the uke weren't that good, maybe he was. Damn that would screw up the hypotheses.

aikidoc

09-22-2006 08:27 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Yeah, maybe I should abandon my master too.

As pointed out, he had excellent form, posture, etc. Balance breaks were evident in every technique. Just because it looks easy does not make it so. I know when I grab my instructor, it sure feels a whole lot different from anyone else I have grabbed-except maybe other 8th dans. You don't feel strength but you do feel power. It's relaxed and your energy seems to just move. Mine gets upset with you if you don't give him a hard attack. Perhaps you have mastered what it took my master 52 years of regular aikido to develop. I humbly bow.

Ron Tisdale

09-22-2006 09:07 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

I have to disagree with Mr. S here, though I should also state that as much as I'd like to see his own video, that doesn't necessarily detract from his stated position. Of course, his gruffness (as always) will tend to snarfle others... ;).

The things I liked about this video are the strength of connection between shite and uke, the carefull management of ma ai by shite, the precision of shite's posture, and the clear application of power into uke by shite. True to one of the halmarks of the lineage, you can see the uke doing their best to maintain their posture and physical integrity, while keeping a low center. The result is a nice 'tension' between uke and shite with very little or no slack in the relationship, which is a good conduit for the power in throws like the ganmen tsuki at 1:16, and the sumi otoshi / koshinage shown at 1:20. Uke is constantly being stretched out, and kept on the edge of their balance...what often looks like following often occurs because they are at the edge of their balance and postural integrity.

While some may find that this type of keiko is not as martial as they might like, I personally have never been able to take advantage of any percieved openings when training with people like Kirisawa Sensei in the Yamaguchi lineage (he's only 5th or 6th dan, so I'm not even dreaming about being able to compromise Endo Shihan). And even when I came at him full power...I just had to take a harder fall.

Best,
Ron

Nick P.

09-22-2006 10:21 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Michael Ellefson wrote:

... Wow, Nagababa you must really be very good to have developed such movement (or better). Maybe I should come train with you and you could teach me.

You cant; he is not a master (quite talented I bet, but no master...)

Quote:

NagaBaba wrote:

06-05-2006, 11:06 PM Re: Replacing Dojo/Instructor

Roy,
You should learn aikido from a Master, not from shodan level instructor.
Find a Master that will give you motivation for all life training. Otherwise it is simply waste of your preciouse time."

Jeremy Hulley

09-22-2006 10:22 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Ron,
Nice post...It made me go back and re-think how I looked at that video.
Pretty good stuff.

Best
Jeremy

ChrisMoses

09-22-2006 10:53 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Jeremy Hulley wrote:

Pretty good stuff.

Best
Jeremy

Agreed. It's not really what I'm working on these days, but it has the ring of truth. He's able to move with a relaxed power that keeps his movements to a minimum, and it's clear that he's affecting uke's balance at the beginning of the encounter and maintaining that disruption through to the throw. Me like.

Ron Tisdale

09-22-2006 11:45 AM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

The thing about differences in style can be very confusing. It's extremely rare (in my limited experience) to see someone proficient (or even appreciative) of styles as divergent as what you see here, and what you might see in a Chiba Shihan or Kanai Shihan video. As Mr. S. once remarked, each teacher is working on building up specific things from the start, to get to a certain place. Take one piece out, and you risk the whole tower falling.

Unless you can open your mind to the totality of what is being accomplished, you won't get inside what is happening in videos like this, especially if you are from a totally different tradition (aiki-budo-ites like myself will have an especially hard time). One more reason to get on the mat and take the ukemi for yourself (ala Don Modesto). After you finish shooting your wad and getting smashed by these instructors, you can then get down to learning what they have to teach. Maybe... ;)

Best,
Ron

Lan Powers

09-22-2006 01:16 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

quote< ...what often looks like following often occurs because they are at the edge of their balance and postural integrity > unquote

Very well phrased.
Lan

batemanb

09-22-2006 01:32 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Needless to say, I disagree with Nagababa too. It's all too easy to poo poo people just by watching a video, and Nagababa does it all too often, without ever showing us how it really should be done, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

I haven't trained with Endo Sensei nearly as much as I would have liked, nor as much as I could have (should have made more effort when I was living in Tokyo), but in the 5 or 6 times I have trained with him, he has been nothing but a pleasure. If uke's give a committed attack, he will have you falling all over the shop plain and simple.

Whilst not training with Endo sensei that much, I have trained a lot more with Nakao sensei, also a student of Yamaguchi sensei, and now a student of Endo sensei. What they do is a joy, it may not suit those that like their aikido to appear hard and strong, because it looks too soft, apparently, but I promise you the power in their techniques is equal to any aikido you will find elsewhere, including Nagababa's.

I know Ron's been on the end of Nakao sensei, so he has a good idea of what it might be like to be on the end of Endo sensei. Anyone who get's the chance to train with either of these teachers should do so, it will only be a benefit, regardless of what you may think after watching the video footage.

rgds
Bryan

Roman Kremianski

09-22-2006 01:59 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

This is either the greatest soft Aikido I've ever seen, or the uke is just very friendly and doesn't want to try any funny buisness. :D

Either way, putting my foot in my mouth now. Interesting video I suppose. I wish I could go up as uke against him and get a first-hand taste for myself! :uch:

Ron Tisdale

09-22-2006 02:05 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

know Ron's been on the end of Nakao sensei, so he has a good idea of what it might be like to be on the end of Endo sensei. Anyone who get's the chance to train with either of these teachers should do so, it will only be a benefit, regardless of what you may think after watching the video footage.

There's a review of my time on the end of Nakao Sensei kicking around here somewhere...

I can promise you, Mr. S, from first hand experience...you could probably take your bestest shot at Nakao Sensei...you'll still go boom. But I'd love to be there to see it! ;)

B,
R

ChrisMoses

09-22-2006 02:07 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:

The thing about differences in style can be very confusing. It's extremely rare (in my limited experience) to see someone proficient (or even appreciative) of styles as divergent as what you see here, and what you might see in a Chiba Shihan or Kanai Shihan video.

Ain't that the truth. This was one of the things I really liked about the AikiExpo that I attended. It also served to really call out some of those aiki-myths (like jujutsu is crude and simple and karate can't be subtle). These days I look at two primary things when evaluating someone visually, *and* I try to keep in mind that looks only tell part of it.

1) How specifically is nage moving? Are they generating power in a way that I can understand, is their footwork simple and intentional, do they look structurally sound? It also helps to know what the 'rules' are within their paradigm.

2) What is the effect of the encounter on uke? Are they planted and relaxed (bad) or is their balance compromised (good)? Do their attacks look credible (good) or overly cooperative (bad)? Along the same lines, do they look like they've been behaviourally conditioned to fall either through outright abuse or physical retribution (very, very bad, and very common)? Are they taking a lot of steps (I consider this bad) or are their movements fairly limited after the initial contact (mo betta)?

Ron, I knew you'd be interesting when you (a Yoshinkan guy) helped with a John Stevens seminar. That told me you were really looking for something and willing to step out of your paradigm to do so. There were a lot of people at the Expo (of all styles) that were quite unwilling to do that.

Ron Tisdale

09-22-2006 02:24 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Thanks for the kind words, Chris. This subject is something we'd all better get a handle on...there is the distinct possibility that it could lead to various strains and styles dying out. And that would be a shame. Can you imagine aikido without Kato Shihan? Or Inoue Sensei? Or Arikawa Shihan? or a host of others? All different. All good.

Best,
Ron

jaime exley

09-22-2006 08:38 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

I have trained with all three of the ukes on that video, Shimizu Sensei, Ariga-san and Tanaka-san. I can attest to the fact that they are Heavy with a capitol H. Each has their own individual feeling, but they share a similar quality. The closest that I can come to describing it is yawarakakute omoi . (flexible and heavy) I've been working to understand this feeling for a few years and am comlepletely fascinated.

It's OK to appreciate one teachers Aikido over anothers. We just all need to be careful that we don't prove ourselves to be too ignorant or mean spirited in the process.

aikidoc

09-22-2006 09:00 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:

Thanks for the kind words, Chris. This subject is something we'd all better get a handle on...there is the distinct possibility that it could lead to various strains and styles dying out. And that would be a shame. Can you imagine aikido without Kato Shihan? Or Inoue Sensei? Or Arikawa Shihan? or a host of others? All different. All good.

Best,
Ron

Thank you for the kind comments on Kato Sensei. As a student, I appreciate your comments. Unfortunately, all of the high ranking sensei's are getting up there. Without concerted efforts for the next generation to steal their gifts, their valuable knowledge will be lost forever.

NagaBaba

09-22-2006 09:43 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Dennis Hooker wrote:

Or maybe the uke weren't that good, maybe he was. Damn that would screw up the hypotheses.

Dennis, everybody knows very well that aikido in Japan is very different from aikido in Nord America. In Japan, the most important goal for uke is to be in perfect harmony with nage. It is not my imagination, it is simply true -- ask anybody who's been long enough in Hombu aikikai. That's is one of reasons they don't like Iwama aikido, cos Iwama uke has completly different role to play. :D

In the other hand, I'm sure, those uke are able to be heavy -- everybody who train long enough know how to be heavy but flexible. BUT!!! not during official demo with a shihan. During such demo they will harmonise with him perfectly.

So yes, if such good uke wants to harmonise with me perfectly, I can do also very impressive demo. Any shodan will do it and many of 1-2 kyu students either. The reason is simple -- such premise creates pure illusion, that has nothing to do with real skills, and more generaly, with aikido.

NagaBaba

09-22-2006 09:57 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Bryan Bateman wrote:

Needless to say, I disagree with Nagababa too. It's all too easy to poo poo people just by watching a video, and Nagababa does it all too often, without ever showing us how it really should be done, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Bryan,
If someone does a demo in front of thousands spectators, he is expecting to be jugded, may be even he can't live without applause of crows of his fans -- look at all actors :D

I'm not in favor of a demo in general, and personally still search perfect uke -- you know, quite a few shihans do a demo exclusively with his own specialy trained uke. I hope you now understand very well why such a mortal as me can't show you right away 'how it really should be done' :p

NagaBaba

09-22-2006 10:01 PM

Re: Video of Seichiro Endo Shihan

Quote:

Ron Tisdale wrote:

I have to disagree with Mr. S here,

oooouuuffff!!!! fortunatly, otherwise aikiweb would become very boring place :cool:

Quote:

The things I liked about this video are the strength of connection between shite and uke,

Nice stuff isn't it?
Unfortunately all this is artificial. This connection is created only by uke :rolleyes: That's why a magic like changing distance, changing timing, flow of movements etc are possible to realize.

Breaking balance is done by anticipating uke. Have you seen any situation where uke was surprised? -- of course not. See, this is a key for observation. No surprise, so uke can anticipate in positive way, but also can make counter or simply block a technique. . No surprise, so nage can't break balance for real. Take a look at Shioda sensei demo, his EVERY movement was a surprise to his uke.