Thoughts from the interface of science, religion, law and culture

After spending several years touring the country as a stand up comedian, Ed Brayton tired of explaining his jokes to small groups of dazed illiterates and turned to writing as the most common outlet for the voices in his head. He has appeared on the Rachel Maddow Show and the Thom Hartmann Show, and is almost certain that he is the only person ever to make fun of Chuck Norris on C-SPAN.

EVENTS

Pastor Wants National Registry for Atheists

Pastor Mike Stahl of the Living Water internet church thinks atheists should be registered.

Brothers and Sisters , I have been seriously considering forming a ( Christian ) grassroots type of organization to be named “The Christian National Registry of Atheists” or something similar . I mean , think about it . There are already National Registrys for convicted sex offenders , ex-convicts , terrorist cells , hate groups like the KKK , skinheads , radical Islamists , etc..

This type of “National Registry” would merely be for information purposes . To inform the public of KNOWN ( i.e., self-admitted) atheists . For example , let’s say you live in Colorado Springs , Colorado , you could simply scroll down ( from the I-Net site /Blog ) I would have , to the State of Colorado , and then when you see “Colorado Springs” , you will see the names of all the self-admitted atheist(s) who live there ( e.g., if an atheist’s name happened to be “Phil Small” ) . The individual’s physical address , and other known personal information would NOT be disclosed ( though , perhaps a photo could be ).

Well sure, because atheists are just like the sex offenders and terrorists.

Now , many (especially the atheists ) , may ask “Why do this , what’s the purpose ?” Duhhh , Mr. Atheist , for the same purpose many States put the names and photos of convicted sex offenders and other ex-felons on the I-Net – to INFORM the public ! I mean , in the City of Miramar , Florida , where I live , the population is approx. 109,000 . My family and I would sure like to know how many of those 109,000 are ADMITTED atheists ! Perhaps we may actually know some . In which case we could begin to witness to them and warn them of the dangers of atheism . Or perhaps they are radical atheists , whose hearts are as hard as Pharaoh’s , in that case , if they are business owners , we would encourage all our Christian friends , as well as the various churches and their congregations NOT to patronize them as we would only be “feeding” Satan .

Frankly , I don’t see why anyone would oppose this idea – including the atheists themselves ( unless of course , they’re actually ashamed of their atheist religion , and would prefer to stay in the ‘closet.’ ).

That’s because you’re a moron.

Update: Stahl has now made his blog private, but here’s the Google cache of the posting.

Pastor Mike Stahl of the Living Water internet church thinks atheists should be registered.

Whatever activity Mike Stahl engaged in to come up with this cockamamie plan, it’s probably not best described as ‘thinking’.

Better choices might be “Pastor Mike Stahl…feels” or “Pastor Mike Stahl…believes”, but that’s only because we don’t have a common verb to describe the subconscious stimulus ⇒ thalamus ⇒ amygdala ⇒ hypothalamus process that led Stahl to this conclusion, but it sure ain’t cognition.

Frankly , I don’t see why anyone would oppose this idea – including the atheists themselves ( unless of course , they’re actually ashamed of their atheist religion , and would prefer to stay in the ‘closet.’ ).

I post my atheistic stuff under a pseudonym because moral nihilists and like you would love to make it easy to deny me a job through illegal (and, played right, hard to prove) religious discrimination, and would probably sic a violent mob on me. That’s what history has taught me. I can still fight your anarchic evil ways under a pseudonym.

All because fundies are afraid of rational discussion and in favor of thuggery. When it becomes necessary for me to post under my real name, I’ll do so.

We already have a register of admitted Athiests, and admitted Christians, and admitted Communists and everything else… it’s called the internet. There exists no barrier for some nit-wit to use google and go around wasting everyone’s time by witnessing (or, I should say, witlessing)

It breaks my heart to see associations like South Florida Bible College & Theological Seminary even exist (featured on this man’s blog). Such organizations guarantees future generations of deluded haters like this man. What they are engaged in towards students is abuse.

This type of “National Registry” would merely be for information purposes . To inform the public… to INFORM the public … Frankly , I don’t see why anyone would oppose this idea – including the atheists themselves ( unless of course , they’re actually ashamed of their atheist religion , and would prefer to stay in the ‘closet.’ ).

Update: Stahl has now made his blog private, but here’s the Google cache of the posting.

I wonder if the words “irony” or “hypocrite” exist in Stahl’s vocabulary.

For the benefit of the philosophically challenged let me explain “consequentialism” in a nutshell: If you like the consequences it’s ethical, if you don’t like the consequences it’s unethical. Thus, if you enjoy child pornography and having sex with children it’s ethical, if you dislike child pornography and having sex with children it’s unethical.

How about the consequences for the victim, for goodness’ sake? Don’t they enter into the equation somewhere? I swear, if this is the type of moral reasoning that Averick is capable of, then it’s probably a good thing he’s got a religion to tell him what’s right and what’s wrong, because he’ll never figure it out on his own.

How about the consequences for the victim, for goodness’ sake? I swear, if this is the type of moral reasoning that Averick is capable of, then it’s probably a good thing he’s got a religion to tell him what’s right and what’s wrong, because he’ll never figure it out on his own.

Funny thing with the moral subjectivism of divine command theory: god is the only ‘victim’ that means anything to them. Human suffering (except, conveniently, the suffering of the person professing to be a DCTer) is beneath their notice.

If word got out that some priests are molesting children, it’d hurt the church’s reputation with normal people of normal morality, and by extension, their god’s reputation. It’s simpler to cover up the story than to stop the sex-crazed priests, so that’s what they do. Human beings have no value to them except as a tool for their god, so it doesn’t matter how many children are emotionally scarred in the name of putting up a facade of decency.

He cites the “O generation of vipers” Bible verse. 2000 years is an awfully long generation, especially for a literalist. Lol. (Yeah I know he makes it say whatever he wants, just like everyone else. And he’s crazy too. But still…)

For some reason I get the impression that, in Pastor Stahl’s masturbatory fantasy, after the national registry comes the incarceration and the hanging. If you need to be warned of their existence, then isn’t it safer for the children if you get the dirty atheists off the street? And hell, what chance to prisoners have of rehabilitation if they are in jail with all those atheists? And hell, why bother executing them one by one? Wouldn’t gas be much quicker and cost effective?

Yeah, I know I committed both a violation of Godwin’s Law and a slippery slope fallacy there, but I learned my debating tactics from Fox News.

Of course, this leads to the question of why people need to be INFORMed about the atheists near them. This idiot’s casual “I’m sure my family would like to know” is just as sincere as “the check’s in the mail” and “the IRS is here to help you.”

Dollars to doughnuts his next suggestion would be some kind of badge that atheists should wear. You know, just so the people around them who are curious could know. Nothing that might lead to a fundy version of Kristallnacht or anything like that. No sir. Not here. How could you make such a suggestion? </sarcasm>

Bah. We need a national “Idiots” registry. I know who my first nominee is going to be.

if they are business owners , we would encourage all our Christian friends , as well as the various churches and their congregations NOT to patronize them
…
Frankly , I don’t see why anyone would oppose this idea – including the atheists themselves

I’m all for it. With a national registry we’ll finally cut down on fraudulent atheism sellers. I mean, how many times have you ordered a pure-bred atheist (“AAA+, all original, conversion ready, must sell”), only to receive a half atheist/half Episcopalian?

vmanis1, the State is perfectly capable of punishing Unpopular Minorities. In fact that’s one of its primary duties, aside from Exploding Swarthy Foreigners. It’s right there in the Constitution, under the Stern Father Clause of the Shut Up That’s Why Amendment.

“Other human beings have no value to them except as a tool for their GREED, so it doesn’t matter how many children are emotionally scarred in the name of putting up a facade of decency.” Hypocrites fleecing the flock for their personal wealth, power, ego and perversions.

I wonder if Anonymous would like to take a break from showing the Scientologists the error of their ways and assist Reverend They-arn’t-like-me-so-they-are-not-human. I’ve heard the people of Anonymous are legion, they don’t forgive and they don’t forget.

Alas, if a dog is rabid and a mortal danger; we don’t hate the dog, they can not help having the disease. However a rabid dog must first be made safe before any other actions are done.

My theory is this man-o-god is trying to get noticed by Bachmann so when she wins the election, she will make him commandant in charge of the Atheist pogroms.

I’m sure Pastor Mike, a man-of-the-clot, will stand firm in his convictions and enjoy his 15 minutes of fame…wait, what – he’s already cowering behind anonymity? Pastor Mike you should have thought of the consequences before throwing a turd in the punchbowl of American culture.

“Other human beings have no value to them except as a tool for their GREED…

Oh, you might offend people like Jerry who’d swear up and down he’s not motivated by such base and human desires. He’s in it for the Lovecraftian horror of a god that lives outside human morality and comprehension.

If atheist are so bad couldn’t the faithful be able to tell them by sight. Is the guy helping his elderly neighbor suddenly a threat when you learn he doesn’t believe in any god? Should we shun the woman how spends afternoons teaching your children to read because she says ” I am fortunate,” instead of “I have been blessed.”

This reminds me of Bosnia, when friends and neighbors turned on each other because of what they believed and not who they were. “Why yes Tom is a good person and we’ve been friends for years but I must stone him because he doesn’t feel the same way about god as I do.”

Internet pastor publicly talks about his desire for a national registry for atheists including their addresses, internet pastor gets exposed by atheist blog and makes his own blog private.

What is the matter Mr. Stahl? You can turn the (metaphorical) light on others but they can’t turn it on you? Perhaps you need to reread Matthew 7:3 and Romans 12:18. Or are those just parts of the bible that don’t apply to you?

Mike Stahl, one of the legion of Lying P.O.S.’s for JESUS that infest the intertubes. It is with just a bit of wistful nostalgia that I remember a time when bigotry, mental illness and hatespeech was confined to the KKKlan meetings, street corners and soap boxes.

I find it interesting that the pastor is concerned about “radical atheists, whose hearts are as hard as Pharaoh’s.” According to the pastor’s holy book, Pharaoh’s heart was hardened by the pastor’s god so that god could show off by plaguing and murdering innocent Egyptians.

Exodus 7:1-5 King James Version

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

3 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.

5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.

These comments are so hateful! Hate does breed hate, though, I suppose. What he said was irrational, illogical, unintelligent, hateful, discriminatory…. The list goes on, as does the merit to dislike him, but I dunno… Be the better man? Be more than what he would expect of an atheist I guess? The seething anger from this topic almost reached through my computer monitor and slapped me in the face, can you say downer? I mean maybe it’s because I’m young, but I treasure happiness more than the writhing disdain which does nothing but put a scowl on ones face.

Pastor Mike Stahl, is an asshole, be atheist it’s not a crime.
Crime is not a harmful behavior to others in a direct sense of transgression? Just as certain behaviors are attempting to impose religious worship to a particular person (s) on a particular monotheistic god. (god is a bad joke).
The ideology of each is not nobody’s business, that is private.

In USA some still believe that the word “communist” is an obscenity.
I think there is Fascism disguised as “good intentions” but with clear instructions of absolutism: Religion (regardless of color).

Well if that came off as pompous, I am very sorry. Ignore my pompous self, but please do take the fruit for thought out of it, at least.

Wow, you really don’t know what the word “pompous” means, do you? For a start, if you have a problem with a comment state specifically which one it is and what your objection is. Just giving a blanket, holier-than-thou “tsk, tsk” isn’t going to give anyone fruit for thought.

@ Taz I’m not trolling bruh(making an assumption that follows suit of the forum term of “troll”). I don’t know any other way to say it. As far as picking a comment, I will if you want me to, but as honest as honest gets, my only purpose for writing that was just an “ease up” type post (I’m not imposing a reader wide chill pill, but when I’m pissed and I hear or read something that helps put something into context, I calm down a little bit). Sure, the dude made a dick move, but don’t let it ruin your day. Or even your ten minutes or ten seconds. Negative emotions aren’t worth that amount of time. I just lack the ability to properly express myself and I’m sorry.

asdffdsa – What he did was not just a dick move. Stating that all atheists are assholes would be a dick move. Calling for a national registry as a prelude to boycotts and harassment goes beyond that. Objections to such proposals need to be immediate and loud.

Also, you can’t just not feel negative emotions. Suppressing them is not good, and venting in a blog comment is harmless.

my only purpose for writing that was just an “ease up” type post (I’m not imposing a reader wide chill pill

Look, moron, what this guy is calling for is extremely similar to what Hitler called for before the Holocaust. Millions were murdered shortly thereafter. It’s the same shit the Hutus said about the Tutsis before the Rwandan genocide. It’s what the Turks said about the Armenians before wiping them out.

If you don’t understand why people are outraged and upset about what history has fucking told us, time after fucking time tends to happen after scumbags like this bleat these violent hate fests, then you”re too fucking stupid to be on a Free Thought Blog.

PS: On a personal note: if you hate it so much Aquaria, why live there? Is it a work thing?

Why does everyone seem to think that it’s so fucking easy to just rip up, take off and move to another state? I’ve encountered this sentiment in a number of comments around FTB and I’m mystified and irritated by the smug, glib condescension in them. The writers of these comments seem to come from one of two positions of privilege; either they enjoy the privilege of having enough resources and opportunities that for them it’s not that difficult, or perhaps they are speaking from the ineffable privilege of ignorance: they’ve never had to do it and they have no fucking idea how hard it is.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a work thing. I think for a great many of us who have any mobility at all, we are where we are because we are in a place where the particular skills and experience we have are rewarded. The rest of us may have no choice. That is only a small part of the picture and I am pretty well disgusted with those who seemingly want to boil down everything in human existence to a set of economic considerations and feel the best way to manage our society is to use the all-powerful/all-wonderful free market to uproot and punish those who may have no other choice.

There are a lot of reasons for living in a given place and economics is only part of it. And consider this, if you can’t afford to live in a place, you can probably even less afford to leave!

Why does everyone seem to think that it’s so fucking easy to just rip up, take off and move to another state?

I don’t. Instead I would argue that over the long haul if there are actual ramifications to people’s voting decisions perhaps they’d stop falling for the politics of tribalism and instead start voting for candidates who actually worked in their best interests. We give them the luxury of voting that way now because they’re able to avoid paying for the after-affects of their poor behavior (sub-standard housing and infrastructure, risky locations, amplifying climate change). In this case that would be actually creating building codes which could better withstand extreme weather, insurance pools whose premiums would reflect the true cost of ownership so the market could actually work in pricing locations based on their actual cost (with a path to get there that considers some people’s limited resources), and policies that mitigate climate change.

However you cut it there are always victims, the prudent thing to do is set policies that are empathetic to people’s limited resources in the short term but also drive pragmatic policy development. Currently we have our heads stuck in the sand and continue to repeat the same insane behavior while avoiding the very root causes which need to be addressed. In this case that means bipartisan support for enriching FEMA contractors while ignoring the root causes which require mitigation after a catastrophic event.

Over the weekend I listened to Ray Nagin speak about the clean-up efforts after Katrina (he’s plugging his book). He noted that 4 no-bid contracts were issued by FEMA totaling $2 billion priced at $44/yard to remove debris. These four contractors all sub-contracted the job at an average of $26 or $28/yard (I forget which); those contractors in turn subbed it out to the companies that actually did the work at $7/yard. This is an example of the locals getting screwed along with federal taxpayers because we have the federal government doing stuff I think would be more prudently handled to everyone’s benefit at the local or I think in this case, state level.

[…] Mike Stahl of Living Water, an Internet church, wants to set up a national registry of atheists. (Read) Sigh, this is the kind of hate that emanates from the Christian Right that makes it very difficult […]

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