High Quality Starts

If John Lowe, the writer in Detroit, can come up with a statistic of quality starts, why can’t we come up with another one? If six innings and three earned runs (4.50 ERA) is a quality start, how about a high quality start? That would be seven or more innings and two or less earned runs or a 2.57 ERA at its worst.

Brad Penny, who is tied for the Major League lead with 25 quality starts, has 13 "high quality starts" among them, which is pretty impressive. Peavy has 15 HQS in 25 QS, Dan Haren has 13 HQS in 25 QS, Carmona has 15 HQS in 23 QS and Sabathia has 16 HQS in 23 QS. Just some food for thought to show how good Penny has been (and Peavy and Sabathia, for that matter).

Meanwhile, in regards to tonight’s game, Derek Lowe cannot make the start due to the hand injury he suffered yesterday during pregame batting practice. Chad Billingsley will pitch tonight on normal rest followed by David Wells on normal rest tomorrow. We’ll see where we go from there…

Here’s tonight’s lineup:

Furcal, SS

Pierre, CF

Kemp, RF

Kent, 2B

Loney, 1B

Martin, C

Ethier, LF

Abreu, 3B

Billingsley, P

If you’re counting, that’s six kids in nine spots, all of whom were developed in the Dodger farm system (with the exception of Ethier, who spent time in the system).

Now it’s off to the press conference where we’ll announce many of the plans in place for next year’s 50th anniversary celebration. Then it’s Team Photo Day where the guys take the photo for the season. More on those events later…

We have only seen the beginning of the stars start coming up Kemp, Loney, Martin, Andre, Broxton and Bills. The next wave of guys should start coming around the corner pretty soon. LaRoche, Meloan, X. Paul, Kershaw get the picture, and you do we thank Logan White. See where I’m going with this James Gusssssss.

Given the past week or so I guess we now have to accept that LaRoche is no longer in the Dodger plans for the future. I think that’s a shame because I always thought he could be the solution at 3B for years to come. Shows you how much I know!

Unfortunate, but we are probably going to be stuck with Jeff Kent next year. He is no longer a feared hitter in the middle of the order and he is a complete butcher at 2nd base.
Stuck with Nomore also. Thanks Again Ned.

That would be nice, even though I don’t like any Yankee players, but he would look good in a Dodger uniform, and if he would come here that would mean he wouldn’t be a yankee so I guess I could like him. But not for more than 18 million a year.

There has been some talk about signing a free agent outfielder this offseason. Torii Hunter, Aaron Rowand, and Andruw Jones are all available. Personally, I would go with Jones who I fully expect to recover from his off year (Off year = 24 HR, 85 RBI), and available at a terrific discount thanks to this year. But Hunter is a good choice too. And Rowand is certainly a huge improvement over Popgun Pierre.

Kemp and Ethier would be the guys to play in the other 2 spots. Pierre should go. I’m sure we could unloas him on somebody if we eat about $2 or $3 million per year.

ARod will definitely opt out of his contract, and I don’t see why the Dodgers don’t have as good a chance as any team at getting him. The competition will be between very few teams and alot of money. Let’s give it a shot, with our kids and his talent, the Dodgers would be the team to beat next season. As for our next manager, I would like to see Dusty….
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

thunderbolt, I don’t think it’s a bad idea, but I would be real surprised if ARod would accept or even consider a change back to SS. In getting him, you have to sacrifice something or someone and here it would more than likely be LaRoche. But Hu at SS and Abreu at 2B along with ARod at 3b and Loney at 1B, well, that’s not to shabby, is it?

Boras is talking $30-35 million. All of know that when ARod signed 7 years ago, $25 million was ridiculous. 7 years later, $25 million is STILL ridiculous. And Boras wants $30 million. Whose gonna pay that?

There are less than 20 games left in the season. I don’t care if Abreu’s main position is 2B or not. He has played at 3B for the Dodgers this year more than any other position. You want to start LaRoche who is hitting almost 100 points lower just because 3B is his best position? Don’t give me the argument that LaRoche is a better fielder at third. Dude has 3 errors in 140 innings, Abreu has 4 errors in 178. Don’t give me the OBP argument. LaRoche has hit 8th in almost every game he’s started while Abreu has hit 1,2,7 and 8.

I wish LaRoche was given more of a chance to prove himself earlier in the year but he wasn’t. If the Dodgers lose the next 2 games the let him play but now isn’t the time to see what he can do.

We’d all love to see A-rod in Dodger Blue! It would be a very co$tly move, and you would wonder who would be given up for him. Not everyone would be happy. Hands off on Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton, and Saito. Keep Abreu around too.

Dusty Baker better not be the next Dodgers manager. Unless you want Billingsley, Elbert, and Kershaw to go the way of Prior and Wood. You can probably thank him in part for Schmidt’s injury problems to. Dude lets starters throw pitches like this is 1923.

JJRiley — If ARod opts out, he’s a free agent and no one leaves but it’ll cost major $$. If he stays, Yanks could trade him to us but would cost us players but Yanks / Tex could eat some of that salary.

I think if you choose that second scenario, you’d have to see how many of those young guys you could get back in free agency.

kiper If they have a chance, they have to give up alot to $ign him, which means getting rid of some of what they have now. It’s all going to boil down to who has the fattest wallet when it’s all said & done.
Arod may be off the hook, and a freak of nature. His number are just sick. But NO ONE is worth 30 million a year!!

You’re probably right but my agrument(if you can call it that) is based on a solid 3B of the future. We seem to have played a 100 guys there in the last few years without coming up with a consistent starter. I, like some others, had thought LaRoche was the 3B of the future but it is painfully obvious now that I was wrong. I just hope the organisation doen’t ruin Abreu by turning him into a utility.

Based on this year I don’t see that LaRoche will not be given a shot. He just needs to stay healthy. He is as good as Kemp/Loney/Martin.

McCourt would never pony up 25-30 million a year for 5 years for A-rod. Why should he? Fans will show up and be happy with mediocrity and he will make more money the way it is now. I mean were going on 19 years here and attendence is not hurting. Sure he wants to win, but this is a business first.

Let’s just win tonight, and Grady just sit in the corner, and don’t move let the coaches coach, and listen to what they have to say. Or better yet let the AAA manager manage this game, he’s already in the dugout with you, he could only do better than you, and for sure not any worse.

I’ve got to believe that his back is ailing LaRoche again. Otherwise, why not give him even an occasional try? Of course, this management wouldn’t give you the truth either way – just like real politicians.

arod is the best player in baseball. but no way in **** would i want him on the dodgers. if the dodgers got him i would really be pissed! how many rings does he have? thats rite none! how many rings does bonds or griffey have? having the best player in baseball doesnt mean your gonna win the world series and history has proven that. you win championships and have dynasty by having a bunch of really good players who have great chemistry and like playing together. thats how you win.

Actually I’d like them both burned at the stake set up on the pitcher’s mound – let’s make that a special promotion event the day after the Dodgers are mathematically eliminated. That’s sure to draw a maximum crowd and probably get national TV coverage. Let’s even put it on Pay Per View – it’s bound to raise enough money to finally get a top rate starting pitcher, plus a big bat.

we were 4-0 with LaRoche starting at 3b in September. On that alone I wouldn’t mess with it, even if you thought he was worthless out there which diehard obviosly proved he wasn’t. I am guessing with positive optomism that LaRoche is hurt and they don’t want to take the chance of him getting hurt long term. Plus, hey let’s be honest there were 5 guys at third this year and none exactly claimed the job, LaRoche included.

Yeah orth things like stadium improvements and stuff are all in order for the McCourts to make more money down the road when they sell the team. Building the brand as much as possible. He can control that aspect of improving the franchise.

To be fair I am sure it’s a totally different budget. I think McCourt spends good money on the team, but I don’t see him locking into a major contract due to cost certanty.

If ARod is available, the Dodgers should absolutely try to get him. If they don’t that’s OK, but I would really be disappointed in the organization if they didn’t even make an effort. Anytime the best player in the game, and arguably one of the 3 greatest of all times, becomes available, you have to explore the possibilities if signing him. Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime never hit the free agent market, Barry Bonds, regardless of what we think of him is one of the greatest, hit the free agent market once in his prime, so an opportunity like this does not present itself too often. In signing ARod any team gives itself a fighting chance at going to the post season, with the talent on this Dodger team due back next season, he would be get them over the hump and into the next level, NLCS or World Series and really, isn’t that what we all want for this club? Go after ARod or Hunter or Jones, but put the team in a position to win.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

I really doubt that Ned will sign many more questionable veterans considering the predicament that he put the team in this year (Gonzo, Wolf, Schmidt, Pierre, Saenz, Tomko….etc.)If he does go that route again, well it’s time to turn over the GM job to swood. LOL…
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

I think Vlade is a perfect example of what Kiper is saying. The angels have not been THAT much better than us. What they have had is a consistent MVP candidate in the middle of their order that could make up and buy them time to make the other things work. Imagine if we had gotten him.

Does anybody here wish that McCourt or Colletti or even Grady, would read this blog? I would love it, especially today with all the FIRE GRADY!!!! going on. Keep it going and I’m sure Josh will bring it to their attention..Go Dodgers!!!
FIRE GRADY!!!!!!

Jungar — I still think that the $$ should be spent on pitching and getting the kids into 4-year contracts as soon as the kids are able and offering them the average of what their MLB position counterparts are making at the time.

charris, look at this way, there is speculation that Torii Hunter is going to command around 20 mil per year. If he’s worth that much isn’t ARod worth the 30? Look it’s ridiculous numbers, but MLB and all pro sports have raised the bar, we might think 30 mil is to much, but the Dodgers are one of the few organizations that can afford a 120 to 125 mil a year payroll, and if that is what it takes to win these days, then somewhere along the line McCourt is going to have to ante up. How is he going to recoup his 120 million dollar investment that he’s put into Dodger Stadium? By selling tickets and the more tickets he sells the quicker he recoups and moves on and the more you win the more tickets you sell and ARod will help do both, win and sell tickets. The bottom line is ARod will cost more but also generate more…

kiper, I don’t think Hunter will get $20 mill a year but we’ll see, hey if the market is going that direction then good move but I still don’t think any one player is worth 20-25% of an entire payroll. That alone will cause tension in the clubhouse. What if Kemp breaks out and starts averaging 40 HRs a year? You better believe he’d demand that A-Rod size contract from us if he’s putting up comparable #s.

I am saying that if you’re showcasing the best player in the game, and you’re in first place you will have increased attendance. Why not average 50K a game? There was an article on Fox Sports a few weeks ago where they state that Hunter’s agent had notified the Twins that there would be no hometown discount and the Twins were looking at offering between 16 to 18 mil, what does that mean? Well, that he’s going to want around 20…

I hope the Padres sweep the dodgers. Why would you want the dodgers to make the playoffs? If they make the playoffs they are going to get swep anyways in the NLDS, and that means GRADY LITTLE will be back. If they missed they playoffs than there is a better chance that McCourt will fire both LITTLE and COLLETI. Bring in Dusty Baker in 08 and let the young players play.

charris, i think you’re a little more intelligent than that. If Kemp can break out, like you said, and hit 40 HR a year for 11 or 12 straight years, yeah he should demand ARod money. I think we’re talking about 2 different animals here, one who is a certain hall of famer and may be the greatest home run hitter in the history of the game withing 7 or 8 years and a kid who has the POTENTIAL to hit 30 or 40 HR’s but has actually only hit 17 in his young career. I could be wrong, but I don’t think that you worry about what or how much a player may demand 4 years down the line when you’re trying to win. Like I said, I could be wrong and I don’t pretend to know much about the game or its economics.

im telling you guys arod would be a terrible move! we have plenty of good young players who can put up great numbers!! we dont need to waste our money on him. and if we do what happens wen our young guys do really well and become free agents. we wouldnt be able to keep many of them and then once arod (who is 32) is done then we have to start all over again…and for wat MAYBE one world championship compared to MULTIPLE?

bill, this is an organization that has not won a World Series in 20 years and only 1 playoff game in that same period. They should jump at the opportunity of winning “one world championship” as you stated. The young guys are full of potential, there is no certainty in what they can do, ARod or even Tori Hunter have proven what they can do. In the end you may be right though, maybe Kemp and Loney and LaRoche and Ethier will hit 30+ HR’s and drive in 100 runs, maybe, they have potential. No doubt.

JOSH***I really wouldn’t look for High Quality Starts, I simply think it’s too much to expect on a regular basis. I would instead look for more runs scored by the offense. I fiqured Lowe wouldn’t start when I read about the accident. I always considered Ethier one of us even though he isn’t “home grown”. I don’t recall him ever appearing in a major league game with any other team. Did he ever? I think we are starting to get a glimps of next years lineup. Yesterday’s game was very forgetable, TODAY WE BEGIN AGAIN.

ya i would love to see torii hunter on the dodgers. but no arod. i like arod but i dont see him as the piece to us winning that world series. i would give up winning one year for the chance to win multiple years in a heartbeat.

no way is dusty baker the answer. this man gave neifi perez like 500 ab’s or something a few years back. and bill since theyre already spending alot of money and blocking our young players, we might as well spend money on a player that is worth it. and to me one world championship would be worth it because how many times in baseball do teams actually win multiple titles in an era?

baseball is different now then it was 10-15 years ago. wen was the last time a bunch on free agent signings helped somebody win a championship. or the last trade that happened to win a championship?? its been awhile and why is that?

well it started back in the early 90’s with the cleveland indians. they built their team up with young guys for their system and prospects from other systems. and they went on a string of division titles..granted they choked int the world series and playoffs multiple times…but i think they had the rite idea. then in 2000 the a’s came out of nowhere and went to the playoffs for a couple years straight. and how did they do it?? YOUNG DEVELOPED TALENT! same thing with the twins a couple years later.

now the past couple years have been a couple of the slowest trading dealines in history. why is that?? because teams are looking back at these teams with small markets that are winning! the dodgers with one of teh biggest payroll in baseball just sat there wondering why the twins were winning and they weren’t.

teams are staring to think this all around the league. the diamondbacks, rockies, us, brewers, devil rays, twins, a’s, rangers, indians, tigers. they are all doing it. nobody wants to give up their prospects anymore because they realize that they have a better chance of winning if you build through your sysytem

and if your wondering if any of these teams that have been building through their system have won any world series?? the angels and marlins

Cody Ross has quietly snuck into the everyday center field role for the Marlins, starting each of the team’s past seven games there, six of them against right-handers. He had long been a quality platoon mate against left-handers, batting .388 with a .483 on-base percentage and .776 slugging percentage this season, .293/.362/.641 for his career, but his .304/.375/.587 rates against right-handers this year back up the idea of him playing regularly.

—

Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers to the Cincinnati Reds for a player to be named later. The Cincinnati Reds sent Ben Kozlowski (June 1, 2006)

bill, I guess i’m missing something here, you keep talking about giving up our prospects and everybody else is talking about signing ARod, like I said i don’t know much about the game, but i was not aware of the fact that you have to give up players to sign a free agent. Obviously you got it down better than me. Thanks.

i am all about the dodgers playing their young up and coming stars. believe me… i cant make that point any clearer… the point is we are LA, the second biggest market, we draw like 3.7 million (second highest in baseball) and we already are spending alot of money as it is, so why not spend it on greatness rather than mediocrity. pierre + nomar + schmidt= 32 million or so a year. To me id rather have a consistent power threat and arguably the best player in baseball for about 32 million than underproductive players. and you can then use kemp in right loney at first ethier in left and martin behind the plate.. not to mention billingsley in the rotation with kershaw on his way and broxton and meloan in the pen. all of a sudden you have a mix of good young players and good free agent signings.. our problem is that we have spent money to just spend it.. rather than having foresight and waiting to spend it on the right player(s)

bill, I’m sorry…. but Penny was originally drafted and signed and then TRADED to the Marlins by the Az Diamondbacks. OK, but other than that you’re right about everything. Oh and Mike Lowell came from the Yankees, but other than that you’re right…

ya and if we get arod we will have forgotton to for see the fact that martin loney kemp and bills and all the other young guys will be gone in a couple years, cuz we dont have enough ,money to keep them all…cuz we got a FACE OF THE TEAM player in arod. we would even be the dodgers anymore..we would be ARODS TEAM just like texas was. and it didnt work out for them..just ask their fans

ya ino that penny lowell and a couple other guys came up through other organizations. but so did ethier for us and we still consider him an oragnization player rite?? those guys made names for themselves as MARLINS not any other team. exactly why teams are not trading their prosepects away anymore

well the business side of baseball is that half of our young nucleus (martin,kemp,broxton,loney,billingsley etc) at least will probably be gone when they are eligible for free agency. you cant assume we will have them forever. why not win while we have them and worry about all that other stuff later rather than assuming they will all stay in dodger blue for their entire careers

Bill the problem with your theory is the person in charge is throwing away our young kids for garbage. Not the core kids of course, but guys like Guzman, Ross, Navarro one day will come back to bite us because we will look around and be the Giants all of a sudden with no orginizational depth.

but ok we’ll see if we get arod and then we’ll see who kemp goes into the hall fame as..a dodger? or another team? and we will see how many world series we have 20 years from now. i guessing that if we go with the way most of you are think that…we’ll have ONE! just liek we do now :]

no, no, no u get me all wrong…my point is fine trade him, Martin is way, way better….but he is a 23 year old catcher with a decent minor leauge history..trade him for something good or hold on to him. God forbid something happened to Martin this year we would be playing two old men. But then, hey that’s how we roll.

ok just making sure… i agree, when ned has traded prospects he hasn’t exactly gotten much for them.. lugo for guzman, tiffany and jackson for carter and baez, and hendy and hall for navarro and someone else i dont remember off the top of my head. D rays have gotten a decent little group of players off our hands

Finally I can agree with Diehard. Navarro does ***** and anybody who would rather have him instead of Martin is crazy. I heard Tampa’s ERA is around 7 when Navarro starts but when their backup catcher(josh paul) starts their team ERA is around 4. I feel that is a very telling stat. Our team had a terrible record when Navarro started behind the plate.

O Jungar I didn’t see your most recent comment… I understand what you are saying now. We traded Navarro for ****(aka Hendy and Toby Hall) we should have gotten more from him considering he was a good minor league prospect. I think we got Navarro from AZ for Sean Green who got him from the NYY for Randy Johnson.

The dodgers MUST add a big stick for next season. Looking at our roster, the only possible fit would be 3B or corner outfield. It’s hard to find big pop in a centerfielder and I don’t want Boras’ overpriced Jones. Besides, we can slide Kemp over there. Not too many attractive power-hitting free agents, though, so you just might have to part with LaRoche or Hu or Abreu or Ethier or even Pierre (pipe dream, but I can wish, can’t I?) to get some REAL pop. I would NOT trade any young pitching, but if someone wants Lowe, hey, thank you very much. And before you all jump on me, Abreu is a second baseman…and you never place huge premiums on them (they can be easily found). The Dodgers learned THAT hard lesson in the DeShields/Pedro trade.

Chad Billingsley has 5 “High Quality Starts” out of 16, plus a 6 IP, 0 R where we was lifted out of a laugher, and the 6+, 1 ER start last Friday where Grady ridiculously yanked him after the leadoff single to Barry “Greatest Hitter of All Time (‘roids notwithstanding)” Bonds. So that’s like 7/16. Not bad for a barely 23-year old, along with his 140 ERA+ (3.22), 1.251 WHIP, 8.6 K/9, and 3.5 BB/9.

If it were up to me, and since I know we can’t get rid of Pierre, I would trade Ethier for something useful and sign Hunter/Jones or find some way to snag Alex Rios (maybe for Hu/Abreu and some other prospects, maybe DLowe since he’s in his last year). Crazy? Maybe, but we need more power and Ethier hasn’t shown any power than he had last year.

The whole point w/ Navvarro is to show that he’s not completely worthless and Ned practically gave him away instead of using his value to get something decent.

Say what you will about Grady Little but he is not the overwhelming problem, it is philisophy.

The fans have become impatient (and who wouldn’t after 20 seasons) and management is trying to quick fix this ship with low grade duct tape.

I for one would be much more patient if I heard or saw a plan. We have a model, one that other clubs have used efficiently and the Dodgers used it as well when they were successful. GO WITH YOUR OWN!

Win or lose I would cheer for this lineup (not in batting order) next year:

Martin C

Lonney 1B

Abreu 2B

LaRoache 3B

Hu SS

Young LF

Kemp CF

Eithier RF (I know he isn’t completley homegrown but he was a traded for prospect)

Trade Furcal for pitching propects. Pierre I no idea what to do with him because I doubt anyone would be dumb enough to take his contract off of our hands (do the yankees need a pinch runner?), Nomar who is here next year (for $9 mil. which makes him like Pierre) will be the rusted sports car that we keep in the garage as a utility player, Our pitching is set thanks to contract status.

Yes this team will take it lumps but at least it shows a course of action instead of the CYA course that the organization has taken.

Why can this organization not have a platform and stick to it? Unless that platform is inconsistency… if that is the case then they are doing a great job.

Horrible inning for us. 3 bad at-bats. Not making Germano work at all.

Four comments about off-season moves. I fear them. I fear the management making the trades in the off-season that they would not make at the deadline. Sure, a free agent signing is fine, but there are very few premiere free agents out there.

Also, the discussion about finding a new outfielder is not good. It would mean Ethier becomes excess. We could deal him, and I understand that if there was a corner outfielder we could get that would be a big impact, but I don’t like it that much.

The idea of getting a new centerfielder might be fun to dream about, but it’s not going to happen. Even Logan White as GM is not going to trade or release Juan Pierre, and even Kirk Gibson as manager is going to play him most days. And Pierre has never played a position other than Center Field. We could debate Pierre’s value all day, and carp about whether he’ll be in there, but the reality is that he’ll be in there, so the idea of signing Tori Hunter of Andruw Jones is nice, but never going to happen.

Fourth, everyone keeps saying that we need to sign a big power bat. Why? Is Matt Kemp’s power not enough? Let’s face it–Willie Mays, Hank Aarron, Manny Ramirez, Vlad Guerrerro were all rookies or second year players once. But there is every reason to believe that Kemp can be that power hitter. There has to be one or two that come of age every year, why do we think that with the best farm system in baseball, we have not developed one of them. Heck, we might have a few good power hitters–after all, can we all agree now that the idea that Loney will never hit home runs has been debunked by the fact that he’s hit 10 as a rookie despite only getting to play about half a season?

The more we see of James Loney, the more obvious it becomes that sending him back to the minors at the start of the season was a HUGE and COSTLY mistake!! I still can’t believe that management did that.

This is great. I’m listening on the radio, and Charley and Rick were extrapolating Loney’s stats into where he would be if he had a full year, since he’s played basically half a season, and were mocking the claim that Loney would not have power.

If we DO go after a power bat this off season, it better be AROD or nobody. We have enough power in the lineup with Kemp and Loney next year. I think if they play everyday they will both have 25+ homers each.

Do you guys think its unreasonable to expect improvement at of Pierre next year? He has had a year in LA and has looked better in the 2nd half, do you guys think he will improve any or just stay at his averages? Furcal will drastically improve next year, esp. because of his contract year. So if those two guys can really get on base next year with Kemp and Loney and Martin coming up (all with a year of experience) we could really do some damage.

LaRoche is limited to pinch hitting because his chronic back problem has become an issue again. LaRoche is unable to bend over to field ground balls and thus hasn’t appeared in a game in a week.

“It’s not serious,” (Dodger manager Grady) Little said. “He seems to be OK swinging a bat, but fielding ground balls is a little bit of a bother right now, so it will probably be a couple of days before he is available (defensively).”

leekfink:I find myself giving more criticism than complements, a tendency I regret. One day recently, I wrote a complementary note to you on your posts but it was so out of character for the blog that I could not bring myself to post it. Now I come to criticize.
Germano is much more around the plate than Billingsley so Billingsley’s pitches that are not strikes are easier to lay off than Germano’s are.

SD has an older line-up with ages 36,34,34,31,30,28,26,25. ours is 39,30,30,25,24,23,23,23.

Many of the players in their line-up are the type of player that must learn to take pitches to stay in the ML,many of ours are not that type of player.

Without knowledge of the situation it is unfair to lay the blame on the Dodger coaches.Also such claims only play into the mob mentality that has virtually taken over this board as is.

Miketink–Now I really wish you had posted that compliment earlier! But, you come to bury Ceasar not to praise him.

I am only watching the game on the radio, so I trust what you’re saying about Billingsley being wild. It certainly sounds that way (even though, he got through it).

You’re right about the age (and I assume therefore the experience/maturity) of the Padre hitters vs. the Dodger hitters. And you’re also right in that our guys have such talent that they have not had to learn to work the count.

NEVERTHELESS:

1) It’s still critical that our guys take better at-bats. I’ve talked about that all year long. Both the veterans and the kids. Every team has 3-5 guys that can start a game OK. Every team has someone who can pitch the 9th inning. Almost no teams are comfortable with their long and middle relievers, and a lot of teams don’t even have good 7th or 8th inning guys. So the best chance of scoring is the middle innings against middle relief. And if you can make the starter work, you will get to that soft spot in the bullpen earlier. Even really talented players will do better if they can get there.

2) I have had more and more concerns with the coaching philosophy as the season has progressed–not just lineups (which can be befuddling, but also show a resistant to letting our quality young guys play). But also a lack of aggressive baserunning, not manufacturing runs with hit and run plays or bunts, and poor fundamentals defensively. And not working the count fits into these concerns.

3) I don’t mean to blame the coaching staff too much, because it’s tough to teach the young guys these things, and it’s really tough on the fly during the grind of the regular season. It’s the kind of thing you have to do in Spring Training. So I don’t mean to come down too hard on the coaching staff. But, I still think that more needs to be done. And when you have a young team like we do, it means that you’re going to take extended batting practices, and you’re going to make guys take infield practice. I remember years ago being at a night game at Dodger Stadium. It might have been an early start, and I don’t remember who we played or who won. But we were sticking around at the end of the game, waiting for traffic to clear out, and the centerfield fence opened up and they drove in the backstop and set it up. Tommy Lasorda then came out in his uniform pants and undershirt and started throwing batting practice to a bunch of guys. I had never seen that before (or since), but it was typical of Lasorda to order extra practices to work things out, and given that in 20 years he managed 9 rookies of the year, he had a knack of working with young players.

It’s a high standard, I admit. And, I don’t mean to call for heads on this basis alone. But these are the things that we are missing. It could be that the coaching staff is doing a whole lot of this which we don’t see yet, and it will payoff when we when the 2008 World Series.

But I’m pretty concerned about this because it’s been like this all year long. And while I often don’t understand some of the lineups, or the constantly shifting nature of the lineup, or some of the in-game moves, I consider this a far more important issue. If this is going on, we will see it payoff next year in spades, because we know that the players we have are talented–if they can start doing the little things right, they will be unstoppable. But if not then the calls for new field management that have been overwhelming the board lately absolutely need to be heeded.

Just look who our kids have for veteran examples of plate discipline. Nomar, Gonzo, JP, Kent. I hope we do not end up regretting having these veterans in front of the kids. Sometimes you have to get the right people… or at least know what who the right people are.

leekfink — I agree that the Doders need to take a LOT MORE pitches. However, that logic may not apply — or at least applies less — when playing the Padres because they have a very deep and talented bullpen. Getting to the Padres bullpen is not nearly as useful as getting to most pens.

Finally we get word on LaRoche, and it doesn’t sound good. I agree with all of those who see the great potential in Andy, but a back problem that has plagued him seemingly all year at his age portends only badly for him. I don’t see any other great 3B prospects for us out there, and I don’t want to rely on Nomar another year, even though he will necessarily be on the roster for next season. Sounds like Rodriguez timing would be right, if he opts out of NY for a new deal. I personally am not for signing Alex at that record-breaking dollar amount, because those type of over-commitments rarely work out. I also wouldn’t want to create the clubhouse situation where one player has a quarter of the whole team’s annual salary – I don’t think that situation plays well, no matter who you are. It didn’t in Kevin Brown’s day, and it won’t today. I’m more intrigued at the Atkins FA possibility in the off-season, although I’d like to make a closer examination why his season numbers are so much below last year. Anybody got some insights?
I’m hoping that there is a logical and permanent answer to LaRoche’s back problems. I’d even feel better if they determined a treatment course that required off-season surgery. I don’t have much confidence in Conte’s judgment about anything or anybody, so I won’t accept that all Andy needs is to rest it. That sound like – O.K., but when is the next time coming. He’s just been bothered too much at too young an age.

Grady said that all he wanted was to be in contention this late in the season to keep the turnstiles turning. Translation is as long as the Ds make money we don’t care if they’re mediocre. Get rid of this management and their thinking and bring in people who care first about winning. If you win the money will follow.

The stadium improvements are not really for the fans, they’re for Frank to pull in more cash from the fans. Would the fans rather have a new restaurant in Dodger stadium or a winning team on the field. My vote is for the latter. And don’t get me started on the Ds proposed float in the parade. If you want to spend money Frank , spend it on improving the team and start with getting new management.

fliegel, the improvements are for the Dodgers, if the game experience is more comfortable for the fans, more fans will come out either as new fans or repeat fans but more will come out and ultimately create more revenue…. More money, better players….
FIRE GRADY!!!

The Dodgers have more money than any other team in baseball except maybe NY and Boston. The money’s not the problem. The problem is our management doesn’t know how to spend it. We have all the money we need but haven’t spent any of it on a top layer. The only top player we have is Martin and we drafted him. We have one of the best closers and we got lucky and found him. We need to start spending our money on players like A-Rod, Santana, Hunter, Jones and other players in the elite class.

Great win last night. I just can’t help to think what would have been if we just had loney starting in April. He would be having and Adrian Gonzales type year. 20 bombs and 90 rbi. While Nomar was hitting 306 in april with 19rbi we went 15-11. Wilson hit .125. If nomar was just at 3b I have to think we would have been more stable in April and May and therfore just a bit better.

Kiper more money does not equal better players.

We would be better today if we did not sign 120 million dollars worth of players in the offseason.

The proof is in the pudding.

Loney at 300k is better than Nomar at 10 million

Any replacement level CF at 300k is better than Juan Pierre at 9 million (Kemp, Ross-heck Repko who was hurt after the JP signing.)

We spent 22 million in this year salary on two arms (schmidt, Wolf) not pitching for us anymore…

Gonzo at 8 million? Dewlyn Young or Kemp/Ethier could probably do what he did for 300k.

So no I belive as Bill and others do, build from within. I think that’s the way things will go from here on out. This years excuse was we needed to bridge the gap to the kids are ready. They are ready and everyone knows it now.

That said, your idea of A-rod, if available…I can see them pursuing..otherwise next years team is pretty much set. Possibly CF Hunter and moving Pierre to left. If Pierre scored 90 runs this year, he let in 50 with his CF play and that has to stop to be a true contender.

So it’s not money, McCourt has ponied up every year…it’s how you spend it.

Great job Pierre in raising his game..I am tough on him, but for him, he is doing all that is expected of him on offense if not more. Of course keep it up James and Matt. Furcal, shake yourself. let’s go.

In a way it’s hard to complain about Pierre. He gives you all he’s got, he’s able to play everyday, he just isn’t the center fielder we need. We’ve gotten just about everything you could exect him to do he just isn’t the right guy for the Dodgers.

cameron, I’ve believed all along that Colletti signed Pierre almost as a “I have to sign somebody” type deal. He had just lost JD Drew, he was unable to land Soriano or Lee and he couldn’t swing the trade for Manny Ramirez, it was like he felt obligated to the fans to sign a free agent. If he would of let it go and rolled the dice with he had, it may have worked out better. Now he has Pierre for 4 more years and I really have to believe that Ned has to sit up there in his suite every night and cringe every time a ball is hit to Pierre. He will never admit to it, but I can bet that Colletti regrets that signing. He’s a good player, but not a marquee player and certainly not one worth the money he’s getting paid.

Actually I find it very very easy to complain about Pierre, and precisely because he isn’t the right guy for the Dodgers. And theres only one person to blame. It hurts us now and it hurts in the future in terms of trades/free agents we could or should be looking into. I know its like a broken record by I really think our GM needs to be gone, along with the manager.

Also, Pierre plays EVERY game, which makes it worse. He does good things but he is not a game changer or an impact guy. Maybe when the kids come into their own and start hitting for power, Pierre’s shortcomings will be minimized. If this team was more offensively minded, Pierre would be a great compliment, and maybe next season that will be the case.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

No offense, but Pierre plays everyday is a meaningless stat as long as Grady is manager. How in the heck do we know who “could” play everyday or not? Why wouldn’t Loney, Kemp or Ethier be able to play every day as guys in their eeeeeearly 20’s? Now, Martin is a STUD for playing everyday and through pain. Standing out in CF everyday for 9 mil is no huge feat although I don’t blame JP for the contract. Cheers for JP for raising his offensive numbers, but unfortunately, a single to CF still drives in the slowest runner in baseball from 2B.

I’m not saying Pierre is a great player or anything. I’m just saying you can’t really blame him for the way things are going. He’s doing almost exactly what he’s done his whole career. Do I think we should have signed him? No. He plays hard and he shows up everyday ready to help. The problem is that he isn’t that good.

Actually GRADY SHOULD BE FIRED because we’re not 3-5 games out in front of the division. He’s had better talent available all season than AZ or SD; he just doesn’t know how to use it, or refuses to use it properly.
COLLETTI SHOULD BE FIRED after this season is over, because he’s wasted so much money in the wrong places starting right after the end of last season. I wouldn’t trust him to make any off-season moves again this year. I don’t believe that the idea of not trading any of our main prospects is a credit to him – I think that after some of his off-season experiences, McCourt drew some guidelines for Colletti concerning who was not to be traded.

true, cameron, JP doesn’t make out the lineups and he gives us what little he has to offer.

kiper,

If Grady was managing the Cardinals he would sit Pujols if he was 0-3 previously against the same pitcher even if he hit 3 bombs the night before. Just think of all the great 1st years of players that would’ve never been if Grady had managed them. Pujols, A-Rod, Fernando, etc.

messagebear, I think you’re right about McCourt telling Ned not to trade the kids, probably on Logan White’s advice and Grady surely has had his head up his *** with the stuff he pulls.

Cameron – if we want to win in the long term, do we need to root for no postseason then so that these bozo’s get fired? I still think Grady will keep screwing with the lineups the rest of the way and ruin any chance of momentum or consistency and keep the team from making the playoffs.

all ino is that if the lineup is different from today. im gonna be sooo pissed! it worked yesterday, anybody with even a little knowledge of baseball would put that same lineup out there. im not much of a match up guy…who gives a **** wat gonzo or nomar did in the past against mad dog..they cant do it anymore grady!!

I want them to win now but you can’t have both. If we win then Grady is not going anywhere. He may not go anyways but if a manager is putting his team in the playoffs then he’ll still have his job. That’s the way sports work. If you win you stay if not you go.

I believe that if the Dodgers make the playoffs, it will be in spite of Grady, so there is a chance that he can get fired. The Dodgers should not be fighting for their playoff life, they should have been setting their rotation and roster right about now. The reason the Dodgers are still fighting, and barely at that, is because of Grady Little putting them in this situation. In my opinion he’s cost the Dodgers at least 8 to 10 wins by his terrible decision making, including 3 in the last week. If you do the math, they’d be in first place by 2 games or at worse tied and 2.5 up on the wild card. Thanks Grady.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

I agree – I think that the episode with Grady leaving Martinez in too long was only the straw that broke the camel’s back, etc. Boston knew that his management style was all wrong for their future, and we should know the same thing after his constant screw-ups and screwing around with lineups in these two seasons. If we make the playoffs, Colletti will no doubt stay, but McCourt should still insist that GRADY MUST GO.

personally im still hoping for an angels vs dodgers world series…and ive been calling that for the past 5 years lol. but if that ever did happen..it would be soo SICK down here!! and id like to kick the angels ***!!

Grady will be gone after this season. His style is just not conducive to what the Dodgers are trying to do and that is go young. Little is obviously a guy who leans toward veteran players, he prefers them over the young guys and the proof is that Gonzo and Saenz and Hernandez and Pierre and Etc…
continue to take away precious at bats and innings pitched from the young guys.

As for him using injuries as an excuse, I don’t buy it, he’s been given plenty of pitching help when he’s needed it. The Dodgers can go as far as we all hope they do or they can not go at all, the bottom line is, Grady Little is not the right fit for this teams future and I hope that Frank McCourt sees that for himself. He has a manager who is keeping his team from playing to their full potential. Maybe now we know why Grady was a minor league manager as long as he was and why nobody else came knocking when the Red Sox fired him.

martinloneykemp–you’re right that the need to take pitches against the Padres is much less because their bullpen is so good. In fact, with Germano, I would probably rather hit against him than some of their relievers. But it still holds true to some extent–most starting rotations are better than their bullpens, and I would rather hit against the Padre bullpen than Peavy. Of course, tonight, we’ll see even fewer pitches, because Maddux throws strikes almost exclusively.

I am not a Grady fan (I am indifferent) but lets look at this..Now of course the disclaimer is he could change the roster but I think Coletti and Ned are together on this..Meaning, would Grady really bench a 14 million dollar SS or a 9 million CF or a 10 million Nomar?

projected starting lineup

our 1-2 hitters are both below avg on base percentage guys this year

our 3-4-5 hitters are in their late 30’s and 2 are now part time players

our fielding has been weak. Grady can’t teach Pierre and Gonzo to have strong arms. He can’t make Kent move more than 3 feet etc, etc, etc..

we lost 2/5ths of our rotation by the All Star Break. We lost our best arm (allegedly) after 3 starts

He really only has 3 bullpen guys he can trust.

So I dont know guys, all in all it’s almost a miracle we are still in it.

It probably doesn’t matter becaise club owner Drayton McLane likes to call the shots, anyway. One baseball executive said he thought Dodgers assistant GM Logan White (“one of the best guys out there — he sees the big picture,” another GM said), Cardinals assistant GM John Mozeliak and Phillies assistant GM Ruben Amaro Jr. were among the Astros’ more inspired interviewees.

jungar, I disagree, they’ve had some tough luck, but at the same time the ERA has been pretty darn good as a staff and if you’re struggling with your pitching then you need to score runs. The opportunity for the team to be more offensive oriented has been there. They have had a chance to start Loney, Martin, Kemp, Ethier, Young maybe Abreu and LaRoche, both have been hurt at times, but were available for a large part of the season. They also could have dumped Saenz and Martinez, who combined are the worst 2 hitters of the bench in MLB this season and they could have not given Tomko the 20 starts that he got. I don’t buy, they are not “a miracle we are still in it” club they should be running away with the west. No excuses!!!

I do wonder about some of Little’s decisions at times, but I don’t think he should be fired. I think he’s done a decent job in a transition year. I’d keep Colletti too, unless his leaving was the only way to keep White.

we have GOT to keep white! he is the one who got all these young guys. and ive said it before and ill say it again…building through your system is the way baseball is turning to. and that really truly is the way to go i believe. plus baseball is the ony sport where you can build your team…cant do it in football or basketball. plus if you give up some years to rebuild…you should run off (with the right players) a string of very competitive years

I guess we really don’t know how much in cahoots Ned and Grady are, but who is benching Kemp one day after getting 3 hits? Man, if Grady is just Ned’s tool than this whole organization just stinks to high heaven IMO.

Unless Grady’s hand is being forced, which I don’t think it is, then he should be gone. Ned should be gone because of all the stupid pickups he’s made. Shea and Roberto for starters. All Ned did was prolong the success of our younger guys. We have enough arms in the pen to bring up a young guy to get experience instead of signing Roberto. And we’ve got enough gloves on the farm too to be signing Shea. All in all they both have made some stupid and costly moves.

Scott I agree, we don’t know but Pierre is not coming out and that the other three will platoon for fairness based on match ups. My guess is that if Gonzo was not on the roster, Kemp and Ethier would never come out. Or if Pierre wasn’t etc..

Now of course Grady can say to heck with Gonzo but Gonzo hasn’t done anything that shouldn’t have been expected production wise..so I don’t know…

With all the great “clubhouse” veterans we brought in, how come the whispers around baseball suggest the Dodger clubhouse is a mess? Other than questionable managerial moves, I think this is the real problem with 2007.

Because all of our vets are big freakin cry babies. Obviously the don’t remember that years ago they took someone elses position just like someone is taking theirs. I guess that they played too long and alzheimers is kicking it.

Do you guys ever listen to Dodger Talk after the games? Whoever is doing the show is the first guy in a long time who talks about it from the fans perspective and isnt a homer for the company. I remember him saying in April the Dodgers made a mistake by not promoting Loney.

In my opinion the only real vet that the kids look up too is Jeff Kent. Jeff Kent is the man. He’s the only vet that plays with passion and plays with cojones. I truly believe the kids look up too Jeff Kent.

Jeff Kent should be looked up to. You can say what you want about him, and the media does not like him, but he plays hurt, he plays hard and he doesn’t raise much fuss about anything. He can still hit, 20 HR’s again, and although he’s not the greatest 2nd baseman in baseball, he wasn’t even during his prime, he still battles every night. He is a leader and a guy who the Dodgers will probably bring back for one more season.

This could be a good night to start Nomar because he comes up to the plate ready to swing every time and Maddux likes to throw alot of strikes and get ahead of hitters early which is why he hadn’t walked anyone in 200 batters. VAMOS DODGERS!!!!

I just know that Grady will start Gonzo today.. It’s so frustrating, but it is what it is. Nomar, OK, I can see it, LaRoche is hurting, again, Shea is struggling and Nomar is a notorious first pitch swinger but I know Gonzo will be in.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

Kiper- I would love to see my man Kent come back for one more year. He is a middle of the order bat when he’s healthy and even though he’s weak defensively he is the best team leader we’ve had since we let Maddux go in the offseason. VAMOS DODGERS(para todas las personas quien hablan espanol) lol!!!!!!

Kiper- I would love to see my man Kent come back for one more year. He is a middle of the order bat when he’s healthy and even though he’s weak defensively he is the best team leader we’ve had since we let Maddux go in the offseason. VAMOS DODGERS(para todas las personas quien hablan espanol) lol!!!!!!

As long as we’ve got Abreau then Nomar doesn’t need to play. They just said that he won’t be 100% at all for the rest of the season.

kiper

Kent is looked up to in the clubhouse. The young guys love how he takes care of his business on the field and keeps his mouth shut after the game. He never complains like the other vets and teh young guys respect that.

I think he and Grady both know that he can’t help the team for 9 innings right now. I think you’ll see alot of Abreau the rest of the way. Some Shea thrown in there too, probably tonight, but I hope not.

Swood and James — I have a feeling, based on Grady’s history of not consistently keeping a steady lineup) that he will go with Gonzo and sit Kepmp (going with the matchup scenario).

Remember what he said a few days ago about playing one of the kids against Peavy “He doesn’t have a history with him”. How can you have a history if you don’t play him. He may think the same thing about having Kemp go against Maddux. Kemp may be young, but he’s hitting like a mother and you need him (Kemp) to get the experience of facing veteran pitching.

calautorebuilder, up the road a bit, Agua Prieta is on the border with Douglas, Az. we’re about 2 hrs west in Nogales, Az. I was a high school teammate and good friend of Gil Heredia, who is the only person ever out of our hometown to reach the major leagues. He pitched for the several teams including the Giants and at the end of his career he had 2 very good seasons with the A’s, 2001 & 2002….

nope, for a long time this whole area, southern Arizona, was had a huge Dodger fan base, because of proximity and the Dodgers penchant for latino players. Ever since the DBacks came into existence alot of people have changed colors, not me, I bleed Dodger blue.. forever!!!

Regarding Tomko. I watched his profile the Dodgers do (Before they were bigs, or something like that) and I never knew that I drove by his old high school and parents / childhood home. I remember wanted to egg that house everytime he blew a game.

It’ll be Wells tonite, there is nothing that I can find, looks like chingon28 pulled one over on us.. Well guess what chingon, Hendrickson for us Tomko for the Pads.. should be a 1-0 ballgame, what do you think???

Jungar — At least having Wells in CF would give us a better arm in that position. I say let JP pitch, hopefully just keep Wells perched in one spot so he doesn’t have to run too far left or right and if he does, he can just “pitch” the ball in to Furcal (cutoff man) and Furcal can gun it to home.

Scott — does hitting a HR off Bomko count as a HR? I mean, when Hu looks back and says, “My first HR was off a guy named Tomko”, people will either look up Bomko’s stats or remember Bomko and say, “Well, that’s not saying much to get an HR off him”. Kinda sad almost. Better to say, “My first HR was off of Maddux, Glavine, Peavy, Sabathia, etc.”

I was just seeing the pitching match ups for the weekend against the DBacks, we don’t get Brandon Webb. I like our chances against the DBacks, but we need it to start tonite against the Pads. The Dodgers need to get on roll, no more win one, lose one. It’s time for a 7 game winning streak. I got a good feeling about this next week.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!

Player to watch
Jeff Kent is hitting .321 (26-for-81) with five homers, five doubles and 13 RBIs in his career against Maddux. In two games against Maddux this season, Kent is 5-for-6 with a homer and a double. Kent hit his 20th long ball of the season on Wednesday.

calauto, sounds good, Sahuarita is growing like crazy, it is now, essentially, a suburb of Tucson. Nice town with all the amenities, but still a small town feel. You would be 35 minutes up the road from us…

kiper I agree it’s good they won’t see Webb. I just hope they do better against junk ball Davis. They couldn’t do squat aqainst him last time. No worries on Hernandez.
I just hope the younsters tonight know they’re not going to get cheated tonight against Maddux. His numbers speak volumes on what to expect. They know he throws strikes, so they will be 1st pitch swinging, and hacking away.

I enjoy going to Dodger games in Ariz. ’cause all those Latinos that turn out in blue. Some switched over to the D-backs, but a bunch stayed with the Dodgers.
The Sonoran desert is a great place in the winter time. Anybody ever eat at La Indita in Tucson?

Kent (26 for 81 5 HR’s) and Gonzo (34 for 108 10 HR’s) absolutely destroy Greg Maddux, so they’ll definitely be in there. Aside from that it should be relatively normal. Kemp probably will start although he’s never faced Maddux, Ethier may get the start (1 for 5 against Maddux. Furcal and Nomar have bad numbers against Maddux. Loney has never faced Maddux. Pierre has also done very well against Maddux (11 for 32) but a big stat is 10 SB’s in his career against him. So, if Pierre gets on it’s an automatic double. That also applies to anybody who gets on with any speed whatsoever…Steal second base!

When you go to a Dodger game at Chase Field (Az) you see all these Latinos wearing Valenzuela 34 Dodger jersey’s.. At the beginning, the DBacks early years, you would see about 60% Dodger fans, now it’s about 30% maybe a bit more. The problem with Arizona, the state, is that everybody is from somewhere else, so the real DBack fans are mostly kids and the rest are bandwagon fans, based on their attendance which is horrible. If you go to a Cubs game in Phoenix, 70% Cubbies, seriously.

calauto, even if he did, he doesn’t have the numbers. I mentioned yesterday on this blog that Grady had cost Kemp and Loney an opportunity at ROY by his shuffling of the line up. I may be wrong on Loney, as far as being a rookie, but if he is…
Thanks Grady!!

Rationale: sSnce it looks like Philly is on a losing streak and Colorado is playing well, at some point, Colorado will go back on its losing streak and, hopefully, the Dodgers are at teh beginning of a (somewhat) long winning streak (which they need to have at some point).

calauto, I try to come out there at least once a season, try to catch 2 ball games. I was there in May and saw the Cubs. I do see the Dodgers, pretty much every series they play in Az at least 1 or 2 games. I will be in Phoenix next weekend Sat and Sunday to catch the Blue. I love Dodger Stadium and my son, who is 12, is a HUGE Dodger fan. Actually my whole family.

That’s a NO BRAINER! Proctor may have more velocity, but you never know which Proctor you’ll see. Sometimes he comes in, throws strikes, and does well. Other times he can’t find the strike zone. Hull had definately done better. Better control.

Grady figures the longer he waits to post the line up, the less time we have to catch on to what an incompetent manager he is…. sorry Grady, no delaying the inevitable, you are the worse manager in the bigs.
FIRE GRADY!!!!!!

BTW, I wasn’t around to blog during the game last night, but watched on my DVR. Loney is really something special, his biggest question was always his power. He’s answering all his critics the right way, on the field. He’s LOCKED IN right now. BTW Adrian Garcia, there’s someone who needs to go. Loney acted far better than most would have after Garcia’s stupid questions.

“Ok, no Kemp or Abreu tonight for sure. Now, should I play Shea or Olmedo at 3B? Maybe I should put Sweeney at 1B and rest Loney for tomorrow. I think Ramon has played some outfield against Maddux…hmmm…this is so tough!”

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