On October 22 an event was held at Osaka University of Arts featuring a conversation between Anno and Kazuo Koike followed by questions from the audience. Twitter user banira1ce took notes on the event, and posted some of the questions and answers to twitter, which are archived here. I have done a quick translation of a few of her twitter posts, because some of the answers Anno gave are quite interesting. I am a bit pressed for time at the moment, so forgive any mistakes I may have made, and as always suggestions or corrections are highly appreciated! And thank you very much to banira1ce m(_ _)m

Kazuo Koike: Today, Mr. Hideaki Anno and I held a discussion at the Osaka University of Arts. About three hundred students attended. We talked together for about an hour and then took questions from the students. It was very good.

Anno: The proposal I first recieved from the producers at NHK was basically a version of Laputa. Miya-san had worked on it, so that was inevitable. When I was directing it, I took it seriously precisely becaue it was directed towards children. Death had been hidden [from those children] up until then. Death was all around me when I was a child. I wanted to show that in anime, so I forced it on NHK.

Student Questioner: Eva was filled with thought-provoking scenes, but was there an intention behind them?

Anno: [They were made] on a case-by-base basis. Sometimes it's just a matter of atmosphere. Sometimes it's playing around for fun. But I studied a fair bit concerning psychology. It's more effective if the audience finds what you're doing to be conceivable.

質問「嫌いなアニメのジャンルは？」庵野さん「萌え系に特化したものです。ホラーも嫌ですね。ホラーはダメです。お化け屋敷もダメです」

Student Questioner: What genres of anime do you dislike?

Anno: Works that are specifically moe, and horror. I am no good with horror, or with haunted houses.

Student Questioner: What about the final episode of the TV series? You said you dislike moe, but isn't Asuka moe?

Anno: When I did the TV series, there was as yet no such thing as moe. I like Sailor Moon as well. For the TV series, we certainly ran out of time. We had no time for episode 25, so we remade it for the theatrical edition. The final episode, episode 26, was going to be that way originally. In the scene in episode 16 which depicts a conversation between Shinji and the angel, Tsurumaki-san forbade [the angel's use of] Japanese. So due to that, the theme became from then on conversations with oneself, and it ended with the question of how you can come to terms with other people. We did [the finale] in four days. We did the voice recording first, and then drew the storyboards.

Anno: The best thing was my making friends here. The friends you make at university have a good chance of being your friends throughout your entire life. I ended up not taking the general subject courses. In particular, my level of English was too low. However, the thing I most regret today is not studying English.

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Oh wow, there's some good stuff in there. So the conversation in 16 is confirmed to be between Shinji and Leliel (vs. Shinji and himself or Shinji and Yui), Air is confirmed to be the original intent for 25, and 26 is confirmed to be the intended ending all along. Lots of ammo for concurrency fans there.

I think one of the more interesting parts is the question "Isn't Asuka moe?" Even though Asuka inspired the tsundere stereotype she herself doesn't really fit the mold, and so it's interesting to see that at least some Japanese consider her moe. Moreover, it's interesting that the student chose her as an example instead of the more obvious Rei, who seems a much better fit for the concept. Anyone wanna unpack the idea a bit further?

For my post-3I fic, go here.The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-PassPeople's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of BantorraI hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis EvangelionYes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

That's an understatement. I'm surprised at just how flatly and simply in this interview he states all kinds of things we have merely supposed or inferred or heard secondhand.

I'm also surprised that Anno is still answering questions about the original Evangelion as recently as last month!

System Administrator, Thread Surgeon General, Default Complaint Receptacle"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Bagheera wrote:Oh wow, there's some good stuff in there. So the conversation in 16 is confirmed to be between Shinji and Leliel (vs. Shinji and himself or Shinji and Yui)

Anno's comment is a bit fragmentary, but comparing it with what I recall from other sources, Anno is saying that 16 was going to be a conversation between Shinji and the angel, but because Tsurumaki didn't like the idea of the angel speaking to Shinji in Japanese, they ended up making it a conversation between Shinji and himself, and hit upon the "inner space" idea. Sorry if the translation was confusing.

Of course, that assumes I understood everything correctly ^^

Edit: Looking over things, I think you're right to understand it like that, and that actually Anno's comment makes more sense this way. My apologies~!

Last edited by 1731298478 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

In other words, the opposite is confirmed -- the conversation really is between Shinji and himself, because Tsurumaki forbade the original idea? And because of that, the concept of the introspective scenes was born?

System Administrator, Thread Surgeon General, Default Complaint Receptacle"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Monk Ed wrote:In other words, the opposite is confirmed -- the conversation really is between Shinji and himself, because Tsurumaki forbade the original idea? And because of that, the concept of the introspective scenes was born?

Here's another, much older, comment by Anno on the scene, slightly different but (I think) a similar narrative.

Monk Ed wrote:In other words, the opposite is confirmed -- the conversation really is between Shinji and himself, because Tsurumaki forbade the original idea? And because of that, the concept of the introspective scenes was born?

It sounds to me more like Leliel took on the role of Shinji (just as Arael and Armisael took on the roles of Asuka and Rei respectively) because Tsurumaki didn't want the Angels speaking Japanese directly.

For my post-3I fic, go here.The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-PassPeople's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of BantorraI hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis EvangelionYes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Bagheera wrote:It sounds to me more like Leliel took on the role of Shinji (just as Arael and Armisael took on the roles of Asuka and Rei respectively) because Tsurumaki didn't want the Angels speaking Japanese directly.

I think you're right. Now that I think of it, Oguro in his later commentary maintains that this is in fact the case:

The first half of the inner space sequence is the development of a dialogue between Shinji "A," which has his present form, and Shinji "B," which has the form of a child. In the plot, Shinji "A" is the real him, and Shinji "B" is the 12th Angel. In order to probe Shinji's mind, the Angel initiates contact as Shinji "B."

He also says:

古びた電車の中を舞台にしたのは鶴巻和哉副監督のアイディア。

It was Tsurumaki's idea to use an antique train as a setting.

I have seen some other interviews which discuss this but it slips my mind where and which they are right now....

Edit: Of course, the RCB is one of them. From Bochan_bird's translation:

-- Episode 16 made quite an impression, and seemed to mark a turning point for Evangelion.KT - That's because it was the first episode where the direction of drawing from the inside like that appeared.[Note: Episode 16 "Shi ni itaru yamai, soshite (A Fatal Disease, and then...). Part A consisted of action scenes concerning the 12th Angel, while Part B depicted Shinji's mental and emotional struggles inside his inner universe after being trapped inside the Angel. Mr. Tsurumaki handled the story boards, production and setting assistance for this episode.]

-- Did you plan the episode to portray Shinji's inner feelings from the start?KT - No. That episode was situated close to episodes 10, 11 and 12, and was originally just another episode in which an Angel appeared. However, amidst the flow of the mysteries surrounding the Angels gradually being resolved, we decided to insert an episode where an Angel appeared to take an interest in humans.

-- I see.KT - The first draft of the scenario was actually a dialog between Shinji and the Angel. However, we felt it would be too anti-climactic to have an Angel start talking like some pulp fiction alien (speaks while tapping his Adam's apple with his hand) "Your analog mode of thought is incorrect." So we came up with the idea actually used in this episode, which was to have Shinji converse with himself.

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1731298478 wrote:You might well be right. Now that I think of it, Oguro in his later commentary maintains that this is in fact the case:

Ah, well, now, that is something else.

Sweet. I'll have to get around to rewatching that part of ep 16 with this new info in mind to see if there are new insights to be gleaned.

System Administrator, Thread Surgeon General, Default Complaint Receptacle"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Holy shit! This is awesome! So, it looks like EoTV 26 was the originally intended ending, and EoE 26 was the alternate ending? (I guess that makes sense. Why tell the exact same story twice anyway?)

That's an odd criss-cross between continuities, though. EoE 25 was the originally intended, but EoTV 25 was not. EoTV 26 was the intended ending, but EoE 26 wasn't. I wonder if all of that criss-crossing between Anno's intended endings and his alternate endings in the original franchise is what resulted in the final version of Death & Rebirth to contain no so-called "Director's Cuts" of the TV show; it's just more criss-crossing between the two endings that makes sense in some way to Anno.

To raise one more question: What does this actually mean when it comes to perceiving and interpreting the original franchise as it stands now? Should Anno's criss-crossing between his original thoughts and his alternate thoughts force us to re-arrange his endings to fit his original and alternate thoughts? Or should we just perceive the show's endings in the form they were presented to us anyway? (It's clear that this criss-crossing was intentional, and, if one wanted to carry the author's interpretation into perceiving the work itself, the deliberate criss-crossing of endings could carry greater meaning behind it.)

I took it to mean that the planned 25 was skipped, and so the planned 26 became TV 25+26 (otherwise TV 25 is unaccounted for).

As for Death; the original version introduced the Director's Cut additions, and once the DC episodes had been released in that form, then they were removed from Death to avoid unnecessary duplication.

"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."(from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"(from: The Eccentric Family )Avatar: Sad, sad Shinji... (details); Past avatars.Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

It is pretty hilarious how straightforward Anno's answers are on long speculated things. Thanks so much for translating this, Number-kun. I'm tempted to sticky this thread, given the various info it provided us...

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Holy shit! This is awesome! So, it looks like EoTV 26 was the originally intended ending, and EoE 26 was the alternate ending?

EoTV and EoE meet almost beat-by-beat all the way up to One More Final, even down to the clear blue sky theme of final chat between Rei, Kaworu and Shinji that is shared with Omedetou scene.

The deviation comes with One More Final which is named like it is for a reason.

This is why I think both concurrency "theorists" and those against it have been right all along. EoE goes beyond EoTV and is informed by Anno's post-series state of mind but it also is on all essential points identical with television series and largerly based on original scripts for television ending.

Anyway, by far the most shocking info in this topic for me is that Tsurumaki suggested the train theme for, err, hell train sequences. Because really, what is more Anno than goddamn trains? Nothing, that is. Nice job on the interview. I found Nadia bits more fascinating because Anno's Eva comments didn't really have anything we didn't know before from other sources or that couldn't be inferred from them.

Though I do wonder what he exactly means with 趣味で遊びのところもあるし/Sometimes it's play according to my interests. Since context is thought provoking material I guess Anno is saying Eva's more metaphysical rambles and moments of waxing poetical that ain't strictly about psychology/introspective studies are about his personal points of interest and curiosity. But I'm not really sure.

ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard! And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Xard wrote:EoTV and EoE meet almost beat-by-beat all the way up to One More Final (...) The deviation comes with One More Final which is named like it is for a reason.

One More Final is the name of the entire 26`, not the final scene.

System Administrator, Thread Surgeon General, Default Complaint Receptacle"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

One More Final comes immeaditly after the final line that ends the Eva main story both in television series and in film: Goodbye, my mother. Not only that the name format for OMF is fundamentally different as it is not marked as part of either episode 25' or 26' like eg. Air/Love is Destructive is just like My purest Heart For You earlier:

In contrast to title cards naming Episodes 25' and 26' above OMF is simply:

Really, it's all in the title. "One More Final" implies it's yet another finale for series. New finale in what sense? Episode 26' provides already closure for the series in same way Episode 26 did, hitting all the key themes and states in Shinji's progression. One More Final signifies epilogue and continuation of the story that has already reached its finale. As EoE's narrative has not reached its resolution untill right before OMF title screen it would make no sense to name all of ep 26' "One More Final".

It is only the One More Final scene (and to lesser extent LA sequence as its inversion of school comedy anime parody segment in EoTV) that actually pushes EoE beyond reimagining in more detail and depth EoTV and thus ends up breaking rather strict concurrency.

ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard! And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Xard wrote:Though I do wonder what he exactly means with 趣味で遊びのところもあるし/Sometimes it's play according to my interests. Since context is thought provoking material I guess Anno is saying Eva's more metaphysical rambles and moments of waxing poetical that ain't strictly about psychology/introspective studies are about his personal points of interest and curiosity. But I'm not really sure.

My own guess is it means something like, moments inspired by Anno's "otaku-like" hobbies and interests. For example, the use of all the ships in Q might be this kind of play. A better translation is probably "doing things for fun."