I however see one extra stop as more of an advantage than slightly improved image quality.

Exactly and if you need IS/VR there's always a monopod. That's why I find it hard to justify spending double the amount for the Canikon f2.8. If it's slightly soft wide open, there's always AF micro adjustments which you can do yourself or you could send it in to Sigma for them to calibrate it for you.

I totally disagree.
Monopods are awful to carry depending on situations. Try to carry one around in a Wedding for instance.. no way. The lens weight a ton by itself already..

And unfortunately the Sigmas won't have the IS/VR... at least not for the 70-200.

Besides that, the 70-200 f/4 are known to be one of the sharpest Canon zooms and the very best appeal is its price: you can get it for 600 bucks brand new. That's why it's the first L for a lot of people.

Now, don't take me wrong. I don't have an f/4 myself. I carry an f/2.8 too.. but the Canon lineup goes where Nikon won't.. except for the 100mm f/2.8 Macro VR.. that Canon lacks

my only fad with the d700 is a little thing that maybe all cameras have in common, but I don't know. Never tried it with my d80 and never had another dslr.

But the d700 has a certain sequence that it uses with a timer shot.
It first autofocuses, then goes through the timer, and then takes the shot.
This to me is annoying, because I want to doe some self portraits.
In this case the ideal sequence should be:
Times, auto focus, shot.

And if AF speed is a must for any of you guys, let's not forget of the 1D series, where even the older ones like 1D2N had an amazing fast and precise AF (maybe in the 60D some day?).

Now.. about AF.. I have to agree that the NoInk AF is superior in speed (tough not by much), but when it comes to accuracy, I think the 5D2 makes an great job with 9 AF points against the D700 with 51.. but that's personal opinion...

But being realist here for a while, I think both brands are just good and have some neat features the other brand lacks...
The Auto ISO in the Noinks is SUPER and Canon REEEEALLY should take a look at it seriously. Auto ISO on Canon = useless.

On the other hand, Noink should get some spare time to check their Live View. Canon is WAY better and has Live Histogram that I use all the time as many many others.

And if AF speed is a must for any of you guys, let's not forget of the 1D series, where even the older ones like 1D2N had an amazing fast and precise AF (maybe in the 60D some day?).

Now.. about AF.. I have to agree that the NoInk AF is superior in speed (tough not by much), but when it comes to accuracy, I think the 5D2 makes an great job with 9 AF points against the D700 with 51.. but that's personal opinion...

But being realist here for a while, I think both brands are just good and have some neat features the other brand lacks...The Auto ISO in the Noinks is SUPER and Canon REEEEALLY should take a look at it seriously. Auto ISO on Canon = useless.

On the other hand, Noink should get some spare time to check their Live View. Canon is WAY better and has Live Histogram that I use all the time as many many others.

I wasn't just refering to 50 point af with 3D tracking for sports, I was also refering to focus acqusition in low light with single point AF. My boss uses the CaNot 5D mkII and single point, and even then, in dim light it's pretty poor. For Dancing shots after the wedding, it's a pain in the ass to shoot with unless you've got the video guy next to you with his video light on the subject to assist af. I'm talking with pro grade lenses of course. Oh and the 1D series are a tad more expensive than the D700 which is why I was comparing to the 5D mkii.

Strangely enough I've hardly used live view at all yet. Maybe if I did much tripod work, and such, but I don't see the big deal. I also don't use the histogram. I use the 'blinkies' as they call it. If the camera is telling me I've got blown highlights, then I add compensation and retake the shot. If a photo is underexposed, big deal, I shoot raw anyway, if however I've blown highlights, then that's the problem that needs to be corrected.

Last edited by Gregory.Rotter on Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

my only fad with the d700 is a little thing that maybe all cameras have in common, but I don't know. Never tried it with my d80 and never had another dslr.

But the d700 has a certain sequence that it uses with a timer shot.It first autofocuses, then goes through the timer, and then takes the shot.This to me is annoying, because I want to doe some self portraits.In this case the ideal sequence should be:Times, auto focus, shot.

But I can't seem to find a way to change the sequence.

I know this is a pain, but it's like this on all the Nikon DSLR's. If self portraits is your thing though, you can always use a laptop and just do tethered shooting. Set the D700 to remote capture, have it set to show the live view feed in Camera Control pro, and there you go. As far as doing group photos with the timer, thats obviously no big deal.

And if AF speed is a must for any of you guys, let's not forget of the 1D series, where even the older ones like 1D2N had an amazing fast and precise AF (maybe in the 60D some day?).

Now.. about AF.. I have to agree that the NoInk AF is superior in speed (tough not by much), but when it comes to accuracy, I think the 5D2 makes an great job with 9 AF points against the D700 with 51.. but that's personal opinion...

But being realist here for a while, I think both brands are just good and have some neat features the other brand lacks...The Auto ISO in the Noinks is SUPER and Canon REEEEALLY should take a look at it seriously. Auto ISO on Canon = useless.

On the other hand, Noink should get some spare time to check their Live View. Canon is WAY better and has Live Histogram that I use all the time as many many others.

I wasn't just refering to 50 point af with 3D tracking for sports, I was also refering to focus acqusition in low light with single point AF. My boss uses the CaNot 5D mkII and single point, and even then, in dim light it's pretty poor. For Dancing shots after the wedding, it's a pain in the ass to shoot with unless you've got the video guy next to you with his video light on the subject to assist af. I'm talking with pro grade lenses of course. Oh and the 1D series are a tad more expensive than the D700 which is why I was comparing to the 5D mkii.

Strangely enough I've hardly used live view at all yet. Maybe if I did much tripod work, and such, but I don't see the big deal. I also don't use the histogram. I use the 'blinkies' as they call it. If the camera is telling me I've got blown highlights, then I add compensation and retake the shot. If a photo is underexposed, big deal, I shoot raw anyway, if however I've blown highlights, then that's the problem that needs to be corrected.

Yep.. I don't know much about extreme low light situations where you're shooting as I'm more an outdoors and my "low light" is set by the trees and natural light fading, but for the results I've got with my friends on fast birds flying tracking, the diamond shaped focus points of the Canon got much much more keepers than the Noinks with the rectangular shaped 51 points.
Probably an mix of the AF system with the much, MUCH faster AF motor on the EF tele lens (100-400 and 100-300 on that case).

And for macro Live View is nowadays practically a must have. The faster Live View on the Canons help me finding the focus on living (moving) things easier than in the Noinks, and the histogram is just great for those situations. And on the Image Quality department, if you read Gordon's review, the 5D2 gets pretty close in real life detail of the Noinks flagship D3X..

Now.. don't get me wrong.. the Noink probably has the very best AF algorithms (when not comparing the 1D series), but the faster AF in camera doesn't mean it's more precise nor that the lens can keep up with it. At the end is the sum of both that matters.

And if AF speed is a must for any of you guys, let's not forget of the 1D series, where even the older ones like 1D2N had an amazing fast and precise AF (maybe in the 60D some day?).

Now.. about AF.. I have to agree that the NoInk AF is superior in speed (tough not by much), but when it comes to accuracy, I think the 5D2 makes an great job with 9 AF points against the D700 with 51.. but that's personal opinion...

But being realist here for a while, I think both brands are just good and have some neat features the other brand lacks...The Auto ISO in the Noinks is SUPER and Canon REEEEALLY should take a look at it seriously. Auto ISO on Canon = useless.

On the other hand, Noink should get some spare time to check their Live View. Canon is WAY better and has Live Histogram that I use all the time as many many others.

I wasn't just refering to 50 point af with 3D tracking for sports, I was also refering to focus acqusition in low light with single point AF. My boss uses the CaNot 5D mkII and single point, and even then, in dim light it's pretty poor. For Dancing shots after the wedding, it's a pain in the ass to shoot with unless you've got the video guy next to you with his video light on the subject to assist af. I'm talking with pro grade lenses of course. Oh and the 1D series are a tad more expensive than the D700 which is why I was comparing to the 5D mkii.

Strangely enough I've hardly used live view at all yet. Maybe if I did much tripod work, and such, but I don't see the big deal. I also don't use the histogram. I use the 'blinkies' as they call it. If the camera is telling me I've got blown highlights, then I add compensation and retake the shot. If a photo is underexposed, big deal, I shoot raw anyway, if however I've blown highlights, then that's the problem that needs to be corrected.

Yep.. I don't know much about extreme low light situations where you're shooting as I'm more an outdoors and my "low light" is set by the trees and natural light fading, but for the results I've got with my friends on fast birds flying tracking, the diamond shaped focus points of the Canon got much much more keepers than the Noinks with the rectangular shaped 51 points.Probably an mix of the AF system with the much, MUCH faster AF motor on the EF tele lens (100-400 and 100-300 on that case).

And for macro Live View is nowadays practically a must have. The faster Live View on the Canons help me finding the focus on living (moving) things easier than in the Noinks, and the histogram is just great for those situations. And on the Image Quality department, if you read Gordon's review, the 5D2 gets pretty close in real life detail of the Noinks flagship D3X..

Now.. don't get me wrong.. the Noink probably has the very best AF algorithms (when not comparing the 1D series), but the faster AF in camera doesn't mean it's more precise nor that the lens can keep up with it. At the end is the sum of both that matters.

I really wish you'd stop being so juvenile, calling Nikon Noink. I mean how immature can you get?

That's one thing you don't seem to understand, people have different needs. If I wanted to shoot in fading sunset sort of light levels, then hey I'm sure a 450D or a D40 with single point AF would suffice. What may seem like extremes to you, is another mans walk in the park. Someone shooting in antarctica isn't going to take the 450D for example. If I shoot weddings, and I've got the bride and groom entering the afterparty venue, and the lights are dim, I NEED accurate and fast AF. Not 51 point, just one point is good enough. If you are shooting a basketball game, then Nikon's 51 point af with 3D Tracking will be something very usefull and provide more keepers than you with your bird photos in broad daylight and the 5Dmkii. You are using your DSLR just for fun, I want to use my D700 for work.

Oh and the D700 can shoot in 9 point AF mode just like the 5D mkII. I'm not saying that the more af points the better, I'm saying there are different situations in which more may be better or a more responsive af system may be better. The D700 focuses in -1EV btw.

Is there some reason you feel you have to justify to the rest of us that the 5Dmkii is just as good as the Nikon D700? It's what's behind the camera that takes the images, not the person calling Nikon, Noink, going on and on about how the 5Dmkii's af system really is good enough for what you use it for, and how you need good enough glass to get those oh so fantastic bird shots that you think Nikon lacks.

Oh and I haven't seen that many bird phographers using a tele zoom. Only the guys who can't afford the tele primes that is. The only pro's I'm aware of who use Nikon's 200-400 F4 would be sports photographers. But again, I'm sure the 100-400s super duper af motor blows all Nikon's lenses out of the water

Oh, I'm so sorry Mr. Serious.. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings...
Did I just read a CaNOT over there??
Hmmm... I thought I did...

Now... let's put something straight here.. making a joke is not signal of being immature. It's just what it is: A JOKE...
And honestly I don't see anything offensive about it so you really should watch your mouth when calling me immature and juvenile..

Can we agree with that?
I hope so...

On the D700 ... 5D stuff.. have you ever considered the cameras are designed aiming different markets?
The D700 obviously has the Sports highlighted... when as I see the 5D2 is much more an Studio/Wedding camera. Now... why would I need ultra-low-light AF for those situations? Or even body sealing? Does it rain in your weddings?? Certainly not on mines... Do you want an Canon Sports Camera? Down here in Brazil people use the 1D3 for that and it will smack the D700 any day... of course at a price...

About the birding... well... I see a LOT of birders using zooms. Because the ultra long primes are expensive and not everyone makes money out of photography... for some of us (including me) it's just an hobby. I don't see why pay 10 grand on a lens to use on the local park... do you?