In 2017 there'll be a referendum on the EU. The outcome's not been decided yet. Anyhow Switzerland isn't in the EU and her negotiations with the EU have nothing to do with the outcome of an election in the UK.

My point anyhow was this, it doesn't matter who wins. You'll still get up each morning, go to work, pay your tax get on with your life. In the grand scheme of things, very little changes. And that's the same for 95% of people in the UK too, but even less changes if you live in Switzerland.

The United Kingdom was THE major member of EFTA, together with Switzerland, but unfortunately and regrettably left in favour the EEC. It of course could REjoin the EFTA, and then work for a united but less centralist and more federal/federalist Europe

In 2017 there'll be a referendum on the EU. The outcome's not been decided yet. Anyhow Switzerland isn't in the EU and her negotiations with the EU have nothing to do with the outcome of an election in the UK.

My point anyhow was this, it doesn't matter who wins. You'll still get up each morning, go to work, pay your tax get on with your life. In the grand scheme of things, very little changes. And that's the same for 95% of people in the UK too, but even less changes if you live in Switzerland.

Switzerland has a lot of BIlateral treaties with the EU and hundreds of treaties with other European countries and is a full member of quite many European organisations. You are free to ignore the Facts, but this is the reality. And lots of Swiss People are to some extent British educated. So that developments in Britain HAVE a very very strong Impact onto Switzerland

The LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, the Merger of the former government Party until Ramsay McDonald and the Labour Split-Away Group has now gone down considerably, so that Mr Clegg has to go. His successor will have to re-Position the Party with a clear Profile left-of-centre and no longer the Poodle of Mr Cameron.

Interesting is that in democratic Europe, BORING People like Mrs Merkel, Mr Cameron and Mr Hollande are successful. Possibly a peace of warning for BOTH Mr Sarkozy and Mrs LePen

As long as the whips do their jobs he can now do pretty much whatever he wants. They'll be the odd back-bencher with minor grumbles but they won't cause any problems for a few years now they have those pesky Lib-dems out of partial-power.

The most important question though, is when will the labour-ites quit posting on EF??

Nope. He's just confirmed in his speech that EU referendum will go ahead.

But how in reality will that work? If he gets a deal out of Brussels who votes first? Denmark, France, Ireland or the UK? Because any agreement that involves a treaty change will require a referendum in those three countries as well. If the UK were to go first and vote to stay in, but one of the others the votes no, what next? On the other hand if the three go first and one votes no, would there even be a point of holding a referendum?

But how in reality will that work? If he gets a deal out of Brussels who votes first? Denmark, France, Ireland or the UK? Because any agreement that involves a treaty change will require a referendum in those three countries as well. If the UK were to go first and vote to stay in, but one of the others the votes no, what next? On the other hand if the three go first and one votes no, would there even be a point of holding a referendum?

And all this while the EU is trying so hard to explain to Switzerland that changes are not negotiable. If the UK can get away with it and Switzerland can't, this would expose the double standards of the EU.

And all this while the EU is trying so hard to explain to Switzerland that changes are not negotiable. If the UK can get away with it and Switzerland can't, this would expose the double standards of the EU.

With one big difference the UK is an EU member and Switzerland is a third country when it comes to such negotiations. Plus when it comes to the free movement of people the UK will have to explain why it is unwilling to apply the current standards in the same way that the other countries are doing...

The UK is not alone. I read last week that both France and Germany are muttering about renegotiating the clause covering the free movement of people.

They should be prepared to hear mutterings about renegotiating the clause covering the free movement of capital then. But I'm ready to bet they won't do it.
Btw, only two months ago if my memory serves me well Frau Merkel said that free movement of people is non-negotiable. And a more recent declaration- something along the line of they're happy to have UK as a member but not at all costs or compromises.
So, only time will tell.

They should be prepared to hear mutterings about renegotiating the clause covering the free movement of capital then. But I'm ready to bet they won't do it.
Btw, only two months ago if my memory serves me well Frau Merkel said that free movement of people is non-negotiable. And a more recent declaration- something along the line of they're happy to have UK as a member but not at all costs or compromises.
So, only time will tell.

In the bigger picture, there is no such thing as non negotiable. Frau Merkel, having herself grown up in the republic of Onkel Honnecker should be the first to know that, seeing those were the very words the Onkel used just days before he had lost not just his job but also his republic.

Things cease to be non-negotiable as soon as the arguments on the table are strong enough. Maybe Switzerland alone doesn't have arguments of that strength, but if other countries start chiming in and producing lists of all the things they are unhappy with (these don't have to be the same things, there just has to be sufficient pressure to renegotiate), she may well soon have to start eating her hat.

In the bigger picture, there is no such thing as non negotiable. Frau Merkel, having herself grown up in the republic of Onkel Honnecker should be the first to know that, seeing those were the very words the Onkel used just days before he had lost not just his job but also his republic.

Things cease to be non-negotiable as soon as the arguments on the table are strong enough. Maybe Switzerland alone doesn't have arguments of that strength, but if other countries start chiming in and producing lists of all the things they are unhappy with (these don't have to be the same things, there just has to be sufficient pressure to renegotiate), she may well soon have to start eating her hat.

Heh, the thought that good ol' UK will have their way is still alive and kicking, Amogles?
Sure, it's not easy to see the world is changing.

P.S.: the latest declaration coming from E.C., which I'd say it is a bit stronger than what Frau Merkel alone has to say.

Quote:

Margaritis Schinas, spokesman for European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, confirmed that the four freedoms in the treaty — free movement of goods, services, capital and people — are non-negotiable.

Heh, the thought that good ol' UK will have their way is still alive and kicking, Amogles?
Sure, it's not easy to see the world is changing.

You said it yourself, the world is changing.

Non-negotiable is a phrase used by those who wish they could stop the change.

Quote:

Margaritis Schinas, spokesman for European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, confirmed that the four freedoms in the treaty — free movement of goods, services, capital and people — are non-negotiable.

Aha J.C Juncker says it, that good old and totally unbiassed Machiavellian caricature of the Ancien Regime, then it must be true.

They should be prepared to hear mutterings about renegotiating the clause covering the free movement of capital then. But I'm ready to bet they won't do it.
Btw, only two months ago if my memory serves me well Frau Merkel said that free movement of people is non-negotiable. And a more recent declaration- something along the line of they're happy to have UK as a member but not at all costs or compromises.
So, only time will tell.

Well looking back over the history of the EU it is clear that everything is negotiable to it members otherwise it would not have evolved to what it is today, but when Frau Merkel states that fee movement is not negotiable she is correct when it comes to third countries - that is EU policy right now.

Having said that we also have to understand exactly what the UK is expecting, it is not just about the free movement of people, it is about the right to treat it's own citizens more favourable that other EU citizens when it comes to benefits and in the end that could very well be the breaking point, because I can not see the citizens of Denmark, France or Ireland voting in favour of such a concept, let allow most of the other member states.

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"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela

But how in reality will that work? If he gets a deal out of Brussels who votes first? Denmark, France, Ireland or the UK? Because any agreement that involves a treaty change will require a referendum in those three countries as well. If the UK were to go first and vote to stay in, but one of the others the votes no, what next? On the other hand if the three go first and one votes no, would there even be a point of holding a referendum?

And all this while the EU is trying so hard to explain to Switzerland that changes are not negotiable. If the UK can get away with it and Switzerland can't, this would expose the double standards of the EU.

I think its a mistake to launch a single-point, one nation frontal assault on EU policies. I think the only proposition negotiated in this situation is "my way or the highway". What is needed here is a supra-national negotiating body, some new organization, that functions like an EU antidote. It would be where member states can air its issues totally outside the influence of the EU, and then come back to the EU with a coalition of common causes. Sort of like a labor union. I think this is the only the EU can be compelled to listen.

If I was Cameron, and serious about the EU, I would do something like this first before launching a referendum.

Perhaps some of these issues, such as immigration, can then be negotiated with the EU through some sort of Cap and Trade barter system similar to how Emissions are controlled. Otherwise, leaving some of these open ended like this can bleed and bankrupt a country and the EU would not care very much.