Talk:Video game

From Conservapedia

Alright... The source given at the end of the first paragraph is, honestly, useless. It doesn't prove any claim made in the paragraph, let alone the last sentence, and some of the stuff given there sounds absolutely ludicrious. 124 incidents of violence in 10 minutes? Unless you're counting every punch as an incident, that's incredibly high...

Anyway. Under normal circumstances I'd simply delete the reference and replace it with a citation needed tag, but given that I'm coming fresh of a banning for misinterpreting instructions, I leave it to you to decide whether or not to remove a source that really adds nothing to the article. Cheers. Barikada 23:33, 22 January 2008 (EST)

Alright. Should nobody post a response to this in the next... Ehh, few hours, I'm going to replace that source with a fact tag. Reason: Source is irrelevant to that section of the article. Barikada 15:55, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Final Fantasy

Oh dang. I just noticed the what the previous edits said about the series. It's about purging evil in a make believe world! Narnia is almost the same. (both have magic/occult themes!)

I've been playing the series for a while, what homosexuality has there been besides Kefka, the arguable transvestite, from FFVI? And transvestism?! So what if Cloud was needed to infiltrate an area via "en femme"? It's a short section of the game and it was a pixelated mess.

Sexuality, let me think (my memory is half good on gaming). VI, nope. VII, nope (Tifa was "top-heavy"). VIII, didn't play. IX, nope. X, underwater make-out scene and Lulu's attire is iffy. X-2, that massage mini-game freaked me out and their attire. XI, didn't play due to online. XII, still playing and the only dispute are the Vieras' attire. Undercover cops in prostitution have just as much sexuality, but it's a necessary good, no?

Suicide... not really (from my experience). Homicide, very much so. Sephiroth killed Aerith, so Cloud killed Sephiroth. The only time I can think of was when Tidus (FFX) jumped off the Fahrenheit at the end, but he was just an apparition anyway. Also, it's not like it glorifying it either.

Religion. FFXII, the villains defy "the gods/fates". What do they get? Most are burned up by their manufactured idols ("manufacted nethicite") while the others are destroyed by Ashelia and the crew. Gabranth also comes to see the errors of his ways and joins the final fight for good against his superior, Vayne. Gabranth was saved in one way or another. Ruling out the villains of Final Fantasy, there hasn't been--if my memory serves correct--a defiance/negativity towards religion... except maybe the false religion of Yevon, which said that a summoner should die for their people to rid the world of pain for 3 years, "Sin". FFX was about defeating "Sin" and the false gods.
I think I am done with my ranting for today. I would like to see some counter-points though. +_+ always tiredNate 22:18, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Many characters are unnecessarily sexualized (specially on concept art), just look at FFX-2. There's also a few sexual references here and there. (Though its not as bad as other games.) Also, Faris and Kuja are definitely transvestives.

There's also plenty of suicide in FFVI, with at least two of your main characters practicing it. There's also Dyne in FFVII committing it.

And if Final Fantasy Tactics wasn't a subtle attempt at subversion against Christianity, I don't know what it is. WilliamH 00:33, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

it isn't a subtle attempt at subverting christianity, it was a successful attempt to make money by creating a video game that took place in a fantasy world. (and as for the other things i have no idea cause i dont play FF, although their are other games with more violence and sexuallity, try picking on gta, that will be easier)-Greenmeanie 00:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, yes, but more specifically it was a successful attempt to make money by creation a video game that took place in a fantasy world were Christianity is basically evil. I'll eventually get to work on the gta articles though. WilliamH 01:02, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

FFX-2 was Square's only first attempt to make an actual sequel. With the name that sequel brings it immediately brings less sales. How to counteract that? Scanty clothing! It's about making money. I preferred to use a party of 2 white mages and one dark knight (most amount of clothing), with the exception of using special dress-spheres when necessary (Riku's and Paine's special form were fully clothed). Gunner, hot pants and side skirt. Gun Mage, side skirt and midriff. Alchemist, nothing revealing. Warrior, bike shorts(?) at least. Dark Knight, nothing. Samurai, tube top Riku. Berserker, major problem. Songstress, miniskirt balanced with really up high boots/stockings. Black Mage, mix samurai with songstress format. White Mage, nothing. Lady Luck, problem. Mascot, definitely nothing wrong. Trainer, same top as Ashelia from FFXII--reveals top 1/3 of breasts. Actually useful dress-spheres: Berserker, White Mage, Lady Luck (if your timing is correct), Warrior, Songstress (if you give it time), and the special spheres.

Weren't Kuja and Zidane both genderless genomes? How can a mechanically engineered, soulless being be a transvestite? They were containers for the souls of Terra. Souls have gender/sex. True nature, a purified version of the body/container God made for us to use. If you have no soul, and you're just a container, then you have no true nature/gender. Kuja absorbed a plethora of souls of the Terrans... woman, child, man. Wouldn't that make "him" multi-gendered?

And.. I never played FF Tactics. I've played Mystic Quest, FFIII (JP), FFVI, FFVII, FFIX, FFX (best game ever! - spent 300 hours on it, 250 on one file), FFX-2 (just wanted to see how a sequel would be and what happened to Tidus), FFXII (still playing, good vocabulary too). +_+ always tiredNate 15:08, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh, I don't doubt the sexualizing of women in the series (not just FFX-2) was made in an effort to increase sales for the games (I would even say it applies to other themes not suitable for children such as profanity), however, that doesn't make it right or more appropriate.

Its true that Kuja is a genome, but they still have male bodies and are treated essentially like men in the game, in fact, you don't even get to know they aren't really human until nearly the end of the game. Also, even taking these technicalities in account, Faris (from FFV) is still transvestite. WilliamH 16:44, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

They also kind of had to assign a gender. You couldn't go a whole referring to the main antagonist as "it", "Kuja" or "zhe" (zhe is what some "genderless" people like to be called).

I have never actually played more than 10 minutes of FFV before deciding it wasn't worth the effort of not spending time on Dofus (a French-based MMORPG). +_+ always tiredNate 23:58, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

"He" works as a pronoun for both genders, doesn't it? WilliamH 19:36, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

For conservatives, it does. My friend--"genderless by choice", born a she, and liberal--wishes to be known as "zhe". Also, Society builds on being politically correct. Companies can't go about saying every unknown gendered person, Quina Quen (FFIX), is a he... that would offend too many potential consumers. Turning off potential consumers means a loss for future profits too. Nate 12:01, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I always thought that was an attempt at comedy actually. WilliamH 21:17, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

Sex in video games

I found something useful in an older release of the Official Playstation Magazine about sex in videogames.

1982 - Custer's Revenge (Atari 2600) - The goal of the game was to have sex with a Native American woman by dodging arrows.

1990 - River City Ransom (Nintendo Entertainment System) - During a certain part of the game you can enter the sauna and it shows a naked man-butt.

Right, right. I forgot about that... I never was one for reading the entire article. Nate 15:32, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm adding a section about this if nobody minds. WilliamH 00:28, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

God of War also included mini-games involving the lead character having sex with various women. While the acts were not pictured on screen (the in-game views were moved to different parts of the rooms), the player had to press various buttons at the right time and was treated to all the sounds of the sex acts. Additionally, during one of the sex scenes, the camera focused on a fountain statue of a urinating young boy which achieved an erection during the scene and "ejaculated." This filth can be viewed on YouTube if anyone (i.e. any liberal) doubts me. Jinxmchue 12:47, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Okay. I have had it up to me head with this!
You still fail to make any good points yes some things in here may be true but...
It does not prove JACK! Okay?!
I don't "oh this has breasts wa wa wa its porn!" Well guess what?
I don't care!
Why will you not just accept the modern world!?
--Caker 13:35, 19 February 2013 (EST)

Link With Crime

I think the statement in the first paragraph—I added a {{fact}} tag but took it out after some consideration— needs a link to some sort of study linking the two, or it needs to be reworded. I don't believe a singular incident can be evidence for this claim.
--Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 11:59, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

It's clear that crimes have been associated with video games (the Columbine killers made custom levels in Doom that matched their school or some such), so the statement as written is true. The problem comes if you try to make a large scale correlation -- outside of anecdotal evidence, I don't think any evidence has ever been found. What few individual correlations I've heard, there's no evidence that the video game caused the violence. HelpJazz 21:49, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

References

Jack Thompson

Maybe we should remove the mention of Jack Thompson? He wasn't really a "target" of the media, and with his recent disbarrment, it might make a stronger case without mention of him. LiamG 17:40, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

Alternatively, it makes his criticisms seem more like the goofiness that they realy are ;-) You are right about the "target" thing though; most "targeted" media coverage was from gamer sites and comics. If the main stream media had anything about him he wasn't really a "target". HelpJazz 19:37, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

People who actually...

Can we get some people who actually play video games to edit this article? It's becoming biased based on what some editors see on TV.

Sure the popular games are the ones seen on TV or the ones that already have loyal fans, but there are still a majority of non-violent games out there.

Targeted at teenagers?

It is not true that all video games are targeted at teenagers. It is true that video games are popular with teenagers, but they are also popular with people in their twenties. One could maybe make some useful link, but I think the first sentence should just be removed of its reference to teenagers. Crucialwood 08:39, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

Biased article

This is the most biased article I have ever seen. The opening sentence itself is sickening.

So it looks like there is some controversy about this article. Is it possible to unlock it to editing? The vandals are surely gone now.--Wuhao1911 18:25, 9 January 2010 (EST)

I don't know about vandals, but I'd like to see this unlocked... I think that at the moment, the article could use a bit of improvement. The first paragraph says some things that make me frown. MalP 21:15, 16 February 2010 (EST)

I completely agree. The first sentence of the article should describe what video games actually are, not make a blatant statement against them. It's appalling that this article is stuck in the state it's in currently. Piexing 9:50, 6 March 2010 (EST)

Another study was just published documenting the harm. But I'll unlock the entry to see if you can improve it.--Andy Schlafly 09:55, 6 March 2010 (EST)

Italics in faith section

In the section that discusses faith in video games, when it goes on to list some games that involve religious belief, various sections of the article are in italics. I'd imagine this is because the author wanted the video game titles to be in italics, but some parts of the text are, as well. Is there a reason for this? I was going to change it, but thought I'd ask first. Jpope1487 00:36, 13 January 2011 (EST)

The positive side of video games

As an avid gamer, I'm disappointed at the extreme bias in this article. While I agree that language and questionable content is totally unnecessary in video games, there are a tremendous amount of games that are absolutely harmless, beneficial, and even educational. For example, Sid Meier's Civilization series simulates world leadership in a video game. Players can learn strategy and a limited level of diplomacy (especially if played with other real players) and the "encyclopedia" found in game gives a very detailed background on units, world wonders, faction leaders, nations, and history in general.

Flight Simulators are also considered games, and they give the player a fairly accurate representation of flight with no negative content. These are only two examples of "good" games that are sitting on my shelf. I originally wrote about 4 more examples but I wanted to keep my explanation short. :)

I apologize for dragging on my explanation, but I feel very strongly that video games are represented incorrectly and can indeed contain as many opportunities for education as television or radio. Tomorrow I'll research the subject some more and gather some sources and add a section to the article about the beneficial (and largely unnoticed) video games that are on the market. --Kody 23:24, 5 February 2011 (EST)

I learned my basic math skills from Command and Conquer. XD. No joke I really did. The Civ games are always educational and they provide the "encyclopedia" so you can learn about the wonders you build. I also have to admit as a kid I never ever cried because of a movie and it was a video game that was the first form of entertainment to make me shed my water. It was Call of Duty 2 Big Red One when Vic (I think) kicks open the door and gets shot, I was devastated. And the most recent Modern Warfare game also made me cry. As you fight to take Washington back from a invading force you see your fellow brothers in arms in body bag. The creators made sure you saw the body bags and saw the negative sad things. They also allowed you to skip the airport level. Props to Infinity Ward.--Harrymd 09:04, 25 July 2011 (EDT)

Cleanup and Tagging

Dungeons and Dragons

I'm not sure what to do when a page gets this long, but I went to the citation for the claim that Dungeons and Dragons contained Satanic imagery and I found no mention of the game on the page. I believe that the claim is false as it is just a GAME and I will be removing the statement unless someone can find real intentional game art that was meant to be Satanic. Thank you. AnnoyingConservative

You've never actually... played the game have you. and its hard for real D&D to have much "art"--SeanS 08:34, 2 June 2011 (EDT)

Actually, yes. I have played the game. Nothing Satanic about it. If you have proof, I would like to see it AnnoyingConservative

Subliminal messages

I came across something yesterday, when playing one of those silly "find the hidden item" games. I was quite surprised to see a number of items that should have been out of place in what is essentially a children's game.
I've loaded one screen-shot here and circled the offending items: 2 bottles of wine, a cigarette, a cigar, a cigarette lighter, a bottle of beer and a full mug of beer. And this is just one screen of hundreds that you'll end up looking at while playing the game. TracyS 07:54, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

I dont really see that that is a children's game. Even if it is, so what? It's not encouraging children to smoke or drink. I'd hardly call that "subliminal messaging" --HarabecW 12:50, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

Ok, so maybe subliminal isn't the right word, but you don't have a problem with hiding things like this and then encouraging children to find them? And of course it's a children's game - do you think these games are marketed at adults? PS It's "don't" TracyS 12:59, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

Then I'd say DONT be a grammar nazi. No, I really dont have a problem with it, why should I? --HarabecW 13:38, 22 June 2011 (EDT)

Amount of "E" rated games

Hey! I'm new here, but I'm already editing this article due to it's biased focus on harmful video games and that there are SOOOOO many inappropriate games. So, I went onto Amazon.com to check how many video games they had. Here's what I found:

Rated E: 27,619

Rated E 10: 2,172

Rated T: 9,643

Rated M: 3,757

Rated RP (Rating Pending): 8,750

As you can see, there are more E games on Amazon then all of the others COMBINED. That means that there are still a bunch of Family friendly games out there. JonnyAmerican

Not all video games are targeted at Teenagers

I would like to mention that the line "Video games are addictive activities targeted at teenagers" is not entirely true. As shown in my post above, there are MANY "E" games. According to the ESRB website, titles rated E (Everyone) have content that may be suitable for ages 6 and older. Titles in this category may contain minimal cartoon, fantasy or mild violence and/or infrequent use of mild language. So, that means that there are a lot of video games targeted at children and families. So I propose that the line should be changed to "Video games are addictive activities targeted at all ages". JonnyAmerican

Perhaps, but there are a lot more video games played by teenagers than younger children. Video games are largely played by teenage boys, and many games are made to tailor to them.--James Wilson 16:32, 5 January 2012 (EST)

I have friends who aren't teenagers that love video games! I like video games too but am not useful in my argument since I'm 14. JonnyAmerican

How old are your friends? If they are preteens or younger, they don't help your argument out either, since the point of this article is that minors are the major consumers of video games.--James Wilson 16:49, 5 January 2012 (EST)

That's their age range all right. But the term "Minors" is anyone under 18. JonnyAmerican

Correct, but that's what I said. People under the age of eighteen are the major consumers of video games. Also, another fad to note: people in that age range (preteens) are given violent games (e.g. the Grand Theft Auto series) by parents due to their ignorance of game content and the corresponding ratings. This is a fact, and should be noted in the article. Video games are not good for the intellectual stimulation of children. They would benefit reading a book once and a while, if they even know what one is!--James Wilson 16:57, 5 January 2012 (EST)

Yeah. But video games aren't the only reason that teens can be violent. I blame movies and TV too. JonnyAmerican

Extremely valid point, and you can feel free to add criticisms to the respective articles.--James Wilson 20:24, 5 January 2012 (EST)

Most popular video games (more than 15 million sold):

Wii Sports (Wii) (76.76 million)

Super Mario Bros. (NES) (40.24 million)

Tetris (GB) (35 million)

Mario Kart Wii (Wii) (28.23 million)

Wii Sports Resort (Wii) (27.68 million)

Wii Play (Wii) (27.38 million)

New Super Mario Bros. (GBA) (26.88 million)

Pokémon Red, and Blue (GB) (23.64 million)

Nintendogs All versions (GBA) (23.26 million)

Pokémon Gold and Silver (GB) (23 million)

Wii Fit (Wii) (22.61 million)

New Super Mario Bros. Wii (21.94 million)

Mario Kart DS (GBA) (21.04 million)

Super Mario World (SNES) (20.60 million)

Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! (GBA) (18.72 million)

Wii Fit Plus (18.49 million)

Super Mario Land (GB) (18.06 million)

Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES) (18 million)

Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (GBA) (17.39 million)

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2) (17.33 million approximately)

The Sims (PC) (16 million shipped)

Sonic the Hedgehog (Sega) (15 million)

But it is probably true that teenagers spend more time on 1 game than others.
--PhilipN 16:54, 5 January 2012 (EST)

Plenty of adults play video games, too. Sports video games, like the Madden series, are popular among all ages. DynaboyJ 17:58, 5 January 2012 (EST)

JonnyAmerican, there are no benefits to video games. Much like popular television, modern music, and other forms of entertainment, there is no cultural enrichment. There really is no cognitive enrichment either. The content in many video games is questionable as best. It is essential that you realize that the games have no benefit in this regard, and any credible doctor would tell you the same.

As for Angry Birds and physics: it's a bogus claim as none of the contents are explicitly or even implicitly related to the discipline; it is claim some made with nothing to back it up. Surely no credible science teacher would use it as a teaching tool?--James Wilson 16:29, 28 February 2012 (EST)

Found a Downside to Video Games

[2]
This article has a point about violence in other countries. Most of our American video games are sold in other countries, but their homicide rates are still lower then ours (most European countries and Japan have homicide rates under 1% of 100,000 people compared to America's 4%).

[3]
This article describes that video games are played mostly by young adults, not teens.

Several of the claims in this article are extremely spurious

I reverted an edit saying video games have caused people to drop out of college due to lack of sources. I myself have played video games heavily, and I have never felt they were a good reason to drop out of college.

Further, I also restored an edit about how games teach critical thinking skills, which they can and do. The United States military uses video game software as training material (they once commissoned a version of the game Battlezone for use as a Bradley tank simulator), and from personal experience with games like Civilization, a game of that nature forces the player to consider the tactical and strategic benefits of their decisions in building wonders and other civilization improvements, the use of military, economic, and political decision making in order to maximize the prominence and success of the civilization run by the player, which requires the player to invest considerable thought into their gameplaying decisions.

Further, as distasteful as it is, video games like Grand Theft Auto and Doom require critical thinking because the former requires the player to plan out how to complete missions successfuly without getting captured by law enforcement, which requires careful planning, as I'm sure any criminologist would easily verify about any competent criminal in real life. As for the latter, Doom had puzzles that required the player to discover keycards to open doors and had switches and motion puzzles that required the player to make tactical decisions to pass levels, not to mention some levels had limited ammunition on higher difficulties, forcing the player to figure out creative ways to maximize their kill count of the enemies with their limited resources.

All of the above require critical thinking skills on the part of the player.

Further, I've played videogames, and I still believe in God, so the claim videogames encourage atheism seems spurious as well.

As for videogames inspiring young people to kill, so do violent movies and books (Timothy McVeigh was inspired to commit his acts of depravity by the racist book The Turner Diaries), but regardless, a video game does not rob anyone of free will, and everyone who found inspiration in killing from any sort of violent media had the choice not to commit those acts of violence, unless they were legally insane, in which case whatever they chose as entertainment is somewhat irrelevant, as they were unable to make rational decisions in the first place. Besides, Breivik was found to be sane (and rejected an insanity defense) regardless of his enjoyment of Call of Duty.

As for sexual immorality and desensitization to violence, I'd be willing to believe that. Many games do have permissive sexual themes (and some are outright pornographic), and many violent video games do tend to desensitive the player to violence over a perioud of time, so in that regard, they are unhealthy influences, especially to those with depraved or violent tendencies.

Still, that does not mean those parties don't know what right and wrong is, and they choose to do evil of their own will; their influences merely push them in that direction, but they are the ones who choose to give into temptation.

Stress-induced health problems (including unexpected heart attacks) is a claim that can be true, and the bright lights and intense action can cause epileptic seizures, so that is a claim I'd be willing to buy as well.

Also, I checked the references cited, and the first one is no longer available, so it needs a new reference, and as someone who still follows the gaming industry (I occasionally have read news periodicals related to gaming), that claim seems doubtful to begin with. As for the sixth reference, it only refers to statistics regarding violent video games, nothing about "tragic results", so this claim is spurious and erroneously represented.

As for the twelfth reference, it no longer seems available at the link provided, so this needs updated before it's veracity can be cited in the article.

College dropouts...

While perusing the headlines on the main page, I followed the embedded wiki-link to this article. Right there in the intro of the article I found this bold (literally) claim: Video games are likely the single biggest cause of bright young men dropping out of college, and also committing heinous acts of violence. To say I was somewhat stunned would be an understatement. While on the path of obtaining my degrees, I was tempted to dropout on more than one occasion. Like many others, financial problems, work scheduling, personal issues, and simple lack of interest served as a near-constant distraction to my studies. Yet despite all of these things I had to juggle during my collegiate days, addiction to violent video games wasn't one of them. I simply can't imagine a temptation so great that not only would it encourage me to discontinue my education, it would also goad me into performing acts of mindless violence. Clearly a lot has changed in the nearly 20 years since I attended my alma mater. Please provide me with citations and/or links that support this incredible information. Clearly, anything described as "... the single biggest cause..." would have no trouble producing a concordance (consilience) of sources in agreement. --DonnyC 03:12, 22 April 2013 (EDT)

College dropouts...

While perusing the headlines on the main page, I followed the embedded wiki-link to this article. Right there in the intro of the article I found this bold (literally) claim: Video games are likely the single biggest cause of bright young men dropping out of college, and also committing heinous acts of violence. To say I was somewhat stunned would be an understatement. While on the path of obtaining my degrees, I was tempted to dropout on more than one occasion. Like many others, financial problems, work scheduling, personal issues, and simple lack of interest served as a near-constant distraction to my studies. Yet despite all of these things I had to juggle during my collegiate days, addiction to violent video games wasn't one of them. I simply can't imagine a temptation so great that not only would it encourage me to discontinue my education, it would also goad me into performing acts of mindless violence. Clearly a lot has changed in the nearly 20 years since I attended my alma mater. Please provide me with citations and/or links that support this incredible information. Clearly, anything described as "... the single biggest cause..." would have no trouble producing a concordance (consilience) of sources in agreement. --DonnyC 03:12, 22 April 2013 (EDT)