non-racer X:Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits? What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

JollyMagistrate:raerae1980: I'm...I'm so confused. I thought that side of the political spectrum was against the Dream Act. Now they are for it? Why? What's changed? How does it screw me over (I'm sure it will....I'm female!)

Party establishment is starting to understand that they need a larger umbrella if they want the presidency in the long run. Being able to attach the Dream Act to their party five to ten years from now could be a foundation for a bridge for more constituents.

vernonFL: Why are we giving citizenship to criminal illegals when our own innocent unborn and elderly are being killed by Obamacare?

Republicans should pass laws to repeal Obamacare and outlaw abortion, not give special rights to illegals.

You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

Lol you know jack shiat about farming or even where most of the food comes from. Nice talking points though.

Boehner: "Eric, I need your support on this."Cantor (sharpening his dagger): "Sure John, what can I do?"Boehner: "I need you to back me on the...What's that for?"Cantor: "What this? Oh umm...I'm going hunting later."Boehner: "With a dagger?"Cantor: "Don't worry about it. OK so here's the plan, you go up to the microphone and talk about supporting the DREAM Act and I'll stand right behind you. It'll make for great television."

Brick-House:IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

Brick-House:IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

If you enjoy a gridlocked Congress, that'll be perfect. When it takes a coalition of 10 or 15 or 20 parties to get legislation passed, we might as well just resign ourselves to never getting anything ever changed.

raerae1980:I'm...I'm so confused. I thought that side of the political spectrum was against the Dream Act. Now they are for it? Why? What's changed? How does it screw me over (I'm sure it will....I'm female!)

In a matter that's fully satisfying to you, and after dinner and a movie??? ^_^

Brick-House:IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

karmaceutical:Serious Black: I'll note that back in 2010, when Nancy Pelosi brought the DREAM Act to a vote on the floor of the House of Representatives, both John Boehner and Eric Cantor voted no on the bill.

But these are men who stand by their convictions!

Yes, and their sole conviction is, "Whatever Obama's fer, Ah'm agin'...unless it's a long-term losing proposition, then I cave like a house of cards."

odinsposse:JollyMagistrate: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

That's fine by me. Exploiting workers is wrong even when they are brown.

First, I think the actual cost of the tobacco per pack of cigs is pretty low - under a dollar as I recall. And increasing the price of cigs is fine with me.

As for actual food, very few items would see a price increase. They'd just be imported from other markets. You do realize wheat is grown in other countries, and all that out of season fresh fruit you see comes from south of the equator.

Unless we slapped a massive tariff on imported food, which in fairness we are capable of.

Serious Black:non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits? What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

MisterRonbo:Brick-House: IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

If you enjoy a gridlocked Congress, that'll be perfect. When it takes a coalition of 10 or 15 or 20 parties to get legislation passed, we might as well just resign ourselves to never getting anything ever changed.

I'd be happy with just a third party. But when Bernie Sanders is the lone non-R non-D in the entirety of Congress (and even he leans towards the Ds on most issues), it's clear all these people who say "both sides are bad" are simply playing lip service to that particular problem.

Pants full of macaroni!!:Brick-House: IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

Who are you and what have you done with Brick-House?

Listen, when BOB does his next State of the Union Address, if it were up to me, I would lock all the doors, put bars on the windows and hang a sign that says Federal Prison. All three branches of the government are totally farked and we need an Extreme Government Makeover. And the first thing I would install is a 12 Year Term Limit for everyone except the President as 8 is enough. And the term limits I would also extend to the Supremes as they appear to be as bad as the rest of the government.

non-racer X:No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Since the fark when does the "left" say that legal farm workers will continue to work for slave wages? I have never heard that argument from anyone. Typically it's noted that it will be good for them and for everyone else to have their wages normalized. Have you ever... like, talked to any left of Pinochet?

non-racer X:Serious Black: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits? What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Prices won't farking skyrocket. Labor is runs somewhere between 17% and 41% of the cost of farm products depending on the crop. The actual producer of the crop gets only about 30% of the cost you pay in the store. Your scaremongering that costs would triple is farking nonsense.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier:Obama needs to come out and oppose amnesty on the condition of a work to citizenship program complete with vaccinations, wage safety, and access to education. Then the House will pass it out of spite.

The sad thing about that is that we've all joked about that for years but, at this point, I believe that's absolutely possible.

MisterRonbo:Brick-House: IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

If you enjoy a gridlocked Congress, that'll be perfect. When it takes a coalition of 10 or 15 or 20 parties to get legislation passed, we might as well just resign ourselves to never getting anything ever changed.

Not to mention the problem is the voters keep electing assh0les so get rid of one batch and elect another does not seem to solve the problem.

Brick-House:Listen, when BOB does his next State of the Union Address, if it were up to me, I would lock all the doors, put bars on the windows and hang a sign that says Federal Prison. All three branches of the government are totally farked and we need an Extreme Government Makeover. And the first thing I would install is a 12 Year Term Limit for everyone except the President as 8 is enough...

.. and you lost any seriousness you thought you had because each member of Congress already has a term limit (2 years for the House and 6 years for the Senate)... after which they get to ask for their jobs back.. in something called an Election.

What you (and a lot of pro-term limit types) are really trying to advocate for is taking away the right of dumbasses voters to continue to vote for their favorite person to represent them in Congress... except yours, I'm sure, because I'm sure yours is perfect...okay, not you personally, but the rest of the pro-term limit types.

A Dark Evil Omen:non-racer X: No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Since the fark when does the "left" say that legal farm workers will continue to work for slave wages? I have never heard that argument from anyone. Typically it's noted that it will be good for them and for everyone else to have their wages normalized. Have you ever... like, talked to any left of Pinochet?

No, they don't say they'll continue to work for slave wages...they just say that the reason they're here in the first place is because nobody else will do the work for those wages. They never continue the thought process any farther, or at least they decline to mention it.

Philip Francis Queeg:non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits? What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Prices won't farking skyrocket. Labor is runs somewhere between 17% and 41% of the cost of farm products depending on the crop. The actual producer of the crop gets only about 30% of the cost you pay in the store. Your scaremongering that costs would triple is farking nonsense.

Try to keep up Francis. I never said prices would triple. That was Serious Black, and I believe he meant if we had to pay natural born citizens to do the labor. My only comment was that the price of produce would obviously increase.I also said that I'm cool with that.

/conservative Libertarian//my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

non-racer X:A Dark Evil Omen: non-racer X: No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Since the fark when does the "left" say that legal farm workers will continue to work for slave wages? I have never heard that argument from anyone. Typically it's noted that it will be good for them and for everyone else to have their wages normalized. Have you ever... like, talked to any left of Pinochet?

No, they don't say they'll continue to work for slave wages...they just say that the reason they're here in the first place is because nobody else will do the work for those wages. They never continue the thought process any farther, or at least they decline to mention it.

They - we - have never declined to mention it. Actually, it's pounded on pretty farking hard. Maybe what you're thinking of is, "the work is there, only now they'll get paid something approaching an honest day's pay for it". Try actually talking to people instead of getting your vision of what "the left" thinks filtered through ten layers of stupidity.

non-racer X:Philip Francis Queeg: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits? What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Prices won't farking skyrocket. Labor is runs somewhere between 17% and 41% of the cost of farm products depending on the crop. The actual producer of the crop gets only about 30% of the cost you pay in the store. Your scaremongering that costs would triple is farking nonsense.

Try to keep up Francis. I never said prices would triple. That was Serious Black, and I believe he meant if we had to pay natural born citizens to do the labor. My only comment was that the price of produce would obviously increase.I also said that I'm cool with that.

/conservative Libertarian//my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

non-racer X:No, they don't say they'll continue to work for slave wages...they just say that the reason they're here in the first place is because nobody else will do the work for those wages. They never continue the thought process any farther, or at least they decline to mention it.

Sooo... you think they'll stop doing the same work for more money because they're citizens?

IlGreven: I'd be happy with just a third party. But when Bernie Sanders is the lone non-R non-D in the entirety of Congress (and even he leans towards the Ds on most issues), it's clear all these people who say "both sides are bad" are simply playing lip service to that particular problem.

And I think people would be more inclined to take you seriously if you weren't dead wrong.

espiaboricua:Brick-House:Listen, when BOB does his next State of the Union Address, if it were up to me, I would lock all the doors, put bars on the windows and hang a sign that says Federal Prison. All three branches of the government are totally farked and we need an Extreme Government Makeover. And the first thing I would install is a 12 Year Term Limit for everyone except the President as 8 is enough...

.. and you lost any seriousness you thought you had because each member of Congress already has a term limit (2 years for the House and 6 years for the Senate)... after which they get to ask for their jobs back.. in something called an Election.

What you (and a lot of pro-term limit types) are really trying to advocate for is taking away the right of dumbasses voters to continue to vote for their favorite person to represent them in Congress... except yours, I'm sure, because I'm sure yours is perfect...okay, not you personally, but the rest of the pro-term limit types.

You should not have crossed out dumbasses, because that was a much better description. All my idea would do is protect the average voter from themselves. Because your right. The average voter recognizes that all these politicians are crooks, except theirs. Hell, look Spitzer and Weiner are leading in their respective races. What does that tell you about the average voter? And FFS, who the hell needs a 100 year old Senator?

12 Year Limit in the Congress and The Courts including the Supreme Court is more than enough time for these people.I was in the Air Force of over 20 years and when it came to Unit Commanders, no matter how well a commander was performing, they were reassigned after 2 years. This gave him the opportunity to increase the breadth of his knowledge and experiences and made way for a new commander that brought with them new ideas. WE NEED NEW IDEAS!!!

Brick-House:espiaboricua: Brick-House:Listen, when BOB does his next State of the Union Address, if it were up to me, I would lock all the doors, put bars on the windows and hang a sign that says Federal Prison. All three branches of the government are totally farked and we need an Extreme Government Makeover. And the first thing I would install is a 12 Year Term Limit for everyone except the President as 8 is enough...

.. and you lost any seriousness you thought you had because each member of Congress already has a term limit (2 years for the House and 6 years for the Senate)... after which they get to ask for their jobs back.. in something called an Election.

What you (and a lot of pro-term limit types) are really trying to advocate for is taking away the right of dumbasses voters to continue to vote for their favorite person to represent them in Congress... except yours, I'm sure, because I'm sure yours is perfect...okay, not you personally, but the rest of the pro-term limit types.

You should not have crossed out dumbasses, because that was a much better description. All my idea would do is protect the average voter from themselves. Because your right. The average voter recognizes that all these politicians are crooks, except theirs. Hell, look Spitzer and Weiner are leading in their respective races. What does that tell you about the average voter? And FFS, who the hell needs a 100 year old Senator?

12 Year Limit in the Congress and The Courts including the Supreme Court is more than enough time for these people.I was in the Air Force of over 20 years and when it came to Unit Commanders, no matter how well a commander was performing, they were reassigned after 2 years. This gave him the opportunity to increase the breadth of his knowledge and experiences and made way for a new commander that brought with them new ideas. WE NEED NEW IDEAS!!!

You want new ideas and a higher rate of turn over in our elected officials?

One way we could reach that is to increase the amount of people that actually vote.

Our high water mark was 63.1% of the eligible voting population and that was in 1960.

Bigger turnout could achieve you goals and does not require a Constitutional amendment. Also, it doesn't limit the will of the people, it actually helps express it.

Rev. Skarekroe:non-racer X: No, they don't say they'll continue to work for slave wages...they just say that the reason they're here in the first place is because nobody else will do the work for those wages. They never continue the thought process any farther, or at least they decline to mention it.

Sooo... you think they'll stop doing the same work for more money because they're citizens?

Philip Francis Queeg:non-racer X: Philip Francis Queeg: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits? What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use."Who else will work our farms for such low wages"Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Prices won't farking skyrocket. Labor is runs somewhere between 17% and 41% of the cost of farm products depending on the crop. The actual producer of the crop gets only about 30% of the cost you pay in the store. Your scaremongering that costs would triple is farking nonsense.

Try to keep up Francis. I never said prices would triple. That was Serious Black, and I believe he meant if we had to pay natural born citizens to do the labor. My only comment was that the price of produce would obviously increase.I also said that I'm cool with that.

/conservative Libertarian//my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

My apologies for the mis-attribution.

No worries....there's enough to argue with me about for things that I actually DO say. lol