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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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Your post was a pleasure to read for many reasons including the tone. I find
that if anyone supports tradition in the Forums that it is often attacked and
those defending tradition are labelled with the "P" word. Any web
links provided to support a position are not read but at the same time refuted?

I am aware that no two people have the same experience so generalisations can
be unfair but in the video I posted, the Novus Ordo Mass is very similar to the
approximate 5,000 Novus Ordo Masses I have attended all over the world
including memories as an Altar Boy as a youngster when I was "closer to
the action". I accept your point of view and cannot comment on your
experiences. In my local Archdiocese I am very disappointed that anyone that
supports tradition (including priests) are generally looked down upon and
considered to be a little odd. I particularly find it sad when a TLM priest is
mocked and laughed at behind his back by his brother priests. My experiences
with those priests are nothing but positive and they are great role models to
me.

Very few people claim that the Novus Ordo Mass is invalid. I stay away from it
for many reasons but I do not think lesser of those who attend that Mass. I
just question why the Church has needed to innovate so aggressively and in the
process create division. The division is evident by the many different points
of view here. Who is right? The politically correct answer is that we are all
right. The infiltration into the Church by various anti-Catholic forces is also
something that is widely accepted, even my more "liberal" Catholics.
Have those forces had an impact on the Church?

It does delight me when people discover the TLM because it has had a profound
impact on me and I wish that impact to be experienced by others. Many I have spoken to feel
the same and we are blessed to have access to the TLM on a daily basis where it
was non-existent 15 years ago.

I think the point of the liturgical changes was to create divisions and to weaken beliefs by changing the style of worship itself. The Benedictines long have been obsessed with liturgy. So, it was no surprise that the impetus for massive changes in the liturgy came from them...from Maria Laach in Germany, Mont Cesar in Belgium, to St. John's Abbey in Collegeville, MN.

Travel up the ladder in the American Church and elsewhere in the world and one finds that a very small number of influential men made changes that affected millions of believers. In the United States those men included Godfrey Diekmann, Frederick McManus and Rembert Weakland. Weakland and Diekmann are responsible for the introduction of the folk mass in the US. What did these priests believe in, I wonder?

(quote) Sean-851370 said: I think the point of the liturgical changes was to create divisions and to weaken beliefs by changing the style of worship itself. The Benedictines long have been obsessed with liturgy. So, it was no surprise that the impetus for massive changes in the liturgy came from them...from Maria Laach in Germany, Mont Cesar in Belgium, to St. John's Abbey in Collegeville, MN.

Travel up the ladder in the American Church and elsewhere in the world and one finds that a very small number of influential men made changes that affected millions of believers. In the United States those men included Godfrey Diekmann, Frederick McManus and Rembert Weakland. Weakland and Diekmann are responsible for the introduction of the folk mass in the US. What did these priests believe in, I wonder?

(quote) Sean-851370 said: I think the point of the liturgical changes was to create divisions and to weaken beliefs by changing the style of worship itself.

Division- there's plenty of it here so you don't have to travel far to find it.

Could anyone have scripted the Liturgical revolution of the 60's? A Freemason with 6 Protestant advisors being key players in replacing the Mass of 1,500 years? Would the NFL employ 6 baseball players to rewrite the rules of their sport? The supposed reason- to attract more Protestants to the Holy Mass. Instead the only key performance indicators that are rocking are priest-less parishes and annulments.

(quote) Gabor-19025 said: Division- there's plenty of it here so you don't have to travel far to find it.

Could anyone have scripted the Liturgical revolution of the 60's? A Freemason with 6 Protestant advisors being key players in replacing the Mass of 1,500 years? Would the NFL employ 6 baseball players to rewrite the rules of their sport? The supposed reason- to attract more Protestants to the Holy Mass. Instead the only key performance indicators that are rocking are priest-less parishes and annulments.

Conspiracy theory or some truth to it?

There is almost always some element/kernel of truth to any conspiracy. That is what makes the rest of it so believable.... But 1-10% truth doesn't make the whole story true.