What makes "nice guys" so bad?

I saw someones question about "nice guys" and almost everyone had something negative to say. Mostly boring and predictable. Why is that so bad? I don't consider myself a "nice guy" but I honestly try to be. I like myself better when I dole out compliments to someone I like. I focus so much on every little negative that I'd rather be focusing on everything awesome about the girl rather than anything else and that inspires me to do dumb little things like leaving her a random sweet note or making her chocolates or cookies. I understand how that's predictable but come one, why is that so bad? What's wrong with knowing, predicting that you'll stumble across a note the guy wrote for you saying he cares about you?

Maybe it's just the women my age (22) that like a bit more uncertanty in their life and the only reason I think that is because I've had more women over 30 try to hit on me than the NONE around my own age. I am exadurating.

This was a bit of a rant soooo yeah but still... what the hell?

Updates:

A little more clear with this thank you folks. I think most peoples experience is that nice guys aren't actually nice. Which sucks because I like being a nice person for myself. I grew up with my mom dating a general asshole so I try my hardest to be the opposite of that. It sucks that almost no one will see that as genuine but I guess I can live with that as long as I like the way I treat people around me.

Most Helpful Girl

You have to know the difference between guys who are actually nice and Nice Guy jerks. Genuinely nice guys are awesome people who are amazing to be around because they're nice people. Nice Guys are not fun or awesome to be around. They tell you how "omg I'm so nice but all those evil bitches take advantage of me and treat me like shit so all women suck anything but my dick wah" That's why no one likes Nice Guys.

It sounds like you need to stop only looking at the "nice" parts of a girl and look at her as an entire human being. Don't give people presents unless you've known them for a long time or you have a solid personal connection. Otherwise you're putting them in an awkward position where they feel indebted to you. Don't just think about how you feel in a situation. Think about how you're making others feel.

@JonathanR LOL if my descriptions make you uncomfortable that's something you need to work on. Not everyone else. Do you think you're a nice guy JonathanR? I can tell you right now you're Nice Guy just from you comment.

Most Helpful Guy

I used to be one of those until I kind of changed my whole attitude and started doing much better in the social realm. Some of this will be a criticism of my past self and not necessarily all "nice guys".

The difficulty is that this kind of "nice guy" tends to be rather pathetic. He might be reluctant to strongly disagree with friends or, even more likely, a girl he likes. There's a loss of genuineness there when your responses are always eager to please. "Oh, that's not my favorite but it's nice." A more assertive and genuine response might be, "I really don't like that at all." He's kind of an ass kisser, not assertive, always trying to be so considerate.

That lack of assertiveness can carry all the way into the bedroom. "Excuse me please, would you mind moving your leg a little bit, is that okay with you?"

Mostly it's not manly. A man doesn't just spend all his time giving everything. He sees something he likes and he takes it if he can, grabs it with firm hands.

With women, they can sense if you're this kind of ass-kissing type, eager to walk underneath their shadow. They're often looking for someone that stands tall, treats them like an equal, not one to be put on a pedestal. Your position in a social hierarchy is not necessarily gained through prestige alone, but how you carry yourself. If you want to be popular, you have to somehow act like a popular person would (but without rubbing it in), independent, not always trying to be affectionate to every single person, stand tall.

There's also just a level of pathetic with nice guys when it comes to women. There's a romantic mindset that just confessing your deepest love to a woman is enough to get her to fall in love, completely missing out on the idea that this is an independent person seeking attractive qualities. Mindsets follow like, "She deserves to be with someone who really cares about her [ME!]". As selfless as the outward actions are, there's usually an inherent selfishness, "she deserves someone nice like *me*".

All of these things affect behavior in a way where we work ourselves to the bottom of the social hierarchy. If you act like a person who shines people's shoes for a living, you get treated like someone who shines people's shoes for a living.

Most of all, you have to develop a positive image of yourself, not weight your value on simply pleasing others, but also pleasing and asserting yourself.

To be kind, gentle is a good quality, but nice guys of this sort finish last.

You totally nailed it. I was going to say something similar but I think you said it best.

The worst part is, how bad we feel rejecting a nice guy. Part of us says "He's really nice! you should appreciate and love him!" and the other part says "But I just don't. Does that mean I'm a heartless bitch?"

Nice guys complain that girls lead them on. It's not that we're leading you on as much as that we don't want to be mean to you. We feel really bad that we're not attracted to you as much as you are to us. We think maybe if we stay in a relationship a little bit longer a stronger connection will firm.. So it's really not intentional. At least it never was for me or any of the women that I know.

I want a man who has an interesting opinion to contribute to a conversation. Who, instead of always asking me what I want to do, suggests something different. Who instead of just telling me how wonderful and amazing I am, works on being amazing himself.

What Girls Said 23

Well, the 30 year old women know where the bad guys get them (that isn't far in life).Nice guys are often overlooked, when a woman matures she realizes she should have given this type of guy a chance.I remember when I was 19 years old, I was with a few bad guys (they didn't disrespect me or anything, but they were weed smokers, not giving a shit about life, had edge to them).But then I realized, I wanted more for myself and began dating a nice guy (who I would have overlooked).The thing about nice guys is they always come off as just a friend, and you never think to date them.It's almost as if the attraction is not there.It's something that I had to grow to have for this nice guy,he was just so safe on the rocks that It didn't interest me.But, in the long run it did me way better than a bad guy could have.

So in other words, you only went to the nice guys after having your fun and realizing that the bad boys weren't all they're cut out to be? Don't you feel any shame for that? If I were those nice guys, I wouldn't accept you. I have too much dignity to be someone's second chance.

Not necessarily.I was younger and learning , I didn't think anything of it.I felt emptiness and knew a bad guy couldn't fulfill that , so I wanted to try something different. I didn't see my choice as a mistake because I had a lot of fun with the bad guy , things ended oh a good note , it's just that I knew that he wasn't for me.

Dating is about learning and finding yourself. You find out what you like in the process. If you're willing to hold resentment for someone who's learning themselves , then by all means something is wrong with you.

i fancy myself a good guy. i do all the right things with all the best intentions and i get the same response, "the attraction just isn't there" i love how you worded it cuz thats the exact thing thats said to me every time. Then i get on this angry anti woman attitude and just dont date for 6 months cuz i think that girls only date dick bags and there's no point in trying anymore. is there anything you can recommend to a nice guys whos (24) and doesn't want to give up the nice lifestyle but doesn't want to end up being walked away from 3-5 dates in every relationship.

also i am a pot smoker and for that reason maybe considered edgy but that doesn't mean im not a "nice guy"

so basically once you had your fill of sex and a wild life you looked to the nice guy who had the job car and all that jazz? This is going to sound really harsh but why would i want a used car with that much mileage and damage on it? just because you realized that the non bad boys were the way to go... does not mean you have reconciled at all. The guy you overlook usually ends up giving up after a time and becoming a recluse who feels he's not good enough for anyone because he's too safe... or too common or not wild enough... .

Huh? Who said that? Like I said, I was 19 years old and finding myself. Show me what person that age has it all figured out.I had a few relationships (wasn't sexual) that I found was not for me. I don't see what's wrong with that. You are way too judgmental.

I like genuinely nice guys, let's call them 'kind'. Nice can have a negative connotation as is demonstrated here. To me a "nice" person means they are over accommodating/people pleaser. Now the trick is to have a balance of kindness with a bit of attitude, aka a 'challenge'. Yes, we women like to be challenged sometimes as it creates spark and excitement. So kindness with some manittude (machismo) is a good combo in my opinion :)

I commented on that other article but you just reminded me of something my boyfriend said when we first started dating. He never thought he find someone like me, a nice girl. It works both ways ya know. Guys have trouble finding a nice, sweet, genuine girl. My boyfriend felt being a nice guy, meant always finishing last, that no girl wants a nice guy. A guy who will still open the car door for his woman, give her his jacket when she's cold. Chivalry ain't dead yet. And then by chance he found me. I love that stuff, he treats me like a princess.

I'm not saying my relationship is perfect, we've had a few bumps in the road, relationships take work, we mess up, we make mistakes, but if you love someone enough you work on it even when they act like a jerk or an ass, on a rare occasion.

So seriously to answer this, there is no one category. A nice guy can be a jerk, he can be ass, etc. But his nice qualities surpass the bad qualities that you don't see often. Basically, a jerk can be a nic guy, and a nice guy can be a jerk. No one is perfect. Stuff happens. My guy messed up big over the holidays but I still love him, we had talked about it, he apologized, and we're moving on. I know he won't do it again, it wasn't his intention to hurt me. Just goes to show, any guy can mess up but they still have nice qualities, you just got to look for those qualities. No one is perfect, but they can be perfect in your eyes once you accept all their flaws, good and bad. For in my eyes, my boyfriend is perfect even when he mess up, he's perfect.

A guy who is genuinely just a good down to earth guy who doesn't need to proclaim he's a nice guy

The manipulative "nice guy" who uses kind gestures to hold over people's heads to try and get what he wants

And the creepy nice guy who uses over the top kind gestures to make up for his overall lacking of self esteem, therefore coming across like nothing more than a pushover man-poodle praying his efforts will get him a biscuit.

Basically, I don't think running around with the title of a nice guy is generally well received anymore, because if you have to go to the extent of proclaiming it, you could be the second or third guy I mentioned.

Predictability is boring, non-adventurous, and sucks the thrill and excitement out of so many situations. It tends to shrink possibility and reduce it down to such a disappointing, unsatisfying measure. Not only that but self-proclaimed "nice guys" tend to be entitled guys who feel they have a right to a woman's affections, heart, and time because they are pleased with their own standard of being. A lot of these nice guys also seem really desperate and clingy for female companionship which puts a ton of pressure on a situation and makes things uncomfortable if the chemistry is not there on the woman's part.

Cuz they keep reminding everyone "how nice they are" and how they feel they deserve more attention. It's fucking annoying haha.If you have to remind people you're a nice guy all the time, chances are you aren't very nice.

Just a personal story. I was always friendshipzoned. I thought it was my looks. I developed BDD and all types of psychological crap. It's only when I was like 27 or so I was made aware of nice guy syndrome. Basically I was too nice. I was never one of those who "used nice to get sympathy or get into her pants", I just was. overt nice guys don't get women, genuine nice guys get a few women, and douches fuck plenty of women. That's the game.

I dont think its bad to have someone shower me with flowers , compliments and sweet notes? What kind of person doesn't love that? To be honest, most girls do want a good guy but they tend to fall for the bad ones.. why? know one knows.. maybe its something to do with living on the edge or wanting what you can't have or being into stereotypes of strong muscular, motor bike types. In reality a good guy equals to less heartache , someone who treats you with love and respect and who genuinely cares. Thats what I want , dont know for others.

The majority of people are nice. You don't get credit for doing what's expected of you. If all you can say is that you're nice, you're probably boring.

Nice guys are friend-zoned because often, in their (entirely admirable) desire to be nice and respectful, they fail to seize the opportunities to express their interest in something a bit more romantic.

A lot of the negativity toward 'nice' guys comes from our experiences with guys who claim they are nice but are aren't. Guys who think that being nice is currency that they can spend on sex or affection. Guys who think that the woman they are chasing owes them love, sex or an explanation just because he's nice to her. Guys who put the woman they're into on a pedestal, which is an uncomfortable place to be.

I personally LOVE nice guys I mean not too nice but be a gentleman to me but if your a little gangster but you treat me like a lady I think that's attractive too... But coming from my friends they don't take nice guys seriously I don't know why

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Anonymous

i had a boyfriend who looked like a nice guy, the kind of boring, and it turns out he wasn't that good, no no... what a freak

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Anonymous

Niceness is not what people's characters are based on, it's just like the icing on the cake. Some people don't like icing at all, some people love it, but still, if it's all they get to eat they are gonna be sick of it. Plus if you're always telling someone how great they are, they will feel like they will always have to live up to this high opinion you have of them. Also they will stop trusting your judgement, because how can you not see what an idiot they are sometimes?If you compromise your character in order to be nice, you will make her think less of you. i. e. you might be a really smart, caring person and you see that your girlfriend is making a bad decision. You're too nice to tell her, but you're there for her when it all goes wrong.But really a girl needs someone who will try and stop her from doing that stupid thing and stand strong, even if it makes her angry at them. Girls want someone they know can lead them and protect them and call them out when needed, not just comfort and be nice to them.You kind of need to show her that you're stronger than she is, and niceness does not do that. I don't know any girls that say they want to find a nice, weak man. Everyone wants someone they can rely on.

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Anonymous

There are two different types of nice guys: Nice men, who don't call themselves nice guys and do good things. They are genuinely kind and want to help others, and are sometimes humble about it. I'm usually friends with these guys, and I also try to date them. They are just good people.

The other is the self proclaimed nice guy that whines and complains that things don't go his way, just because he's nice he feels he deserves it. It's a bit of entitlement and he's usually a jerk. I have encountered this when a guy complained that this girl didn't like him, but he was "so nice" and then once she rejected him started calling her offensive things, just because it didn't go his way.

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Anonymous

There are "good guys" who genuinely feel satisfaction from helping others - including those who can't do anything for him.

Then there are "nice guys" who hide behind a benign expression, but really feel they're owed something for the good things they do. They're passive aggressive, usually. Chicks can have this syndrome too.

Good guys will help an old man with his groceries and make it sound like he's hanging around to ask him about his "Veteran" cap.

Nice guys will clean snow off their girlfriends car thinking it means they'll get a blowjob later. Instead of turning her on and starting sexytime, he pouts that she only gives him a big kiss and then acts like the breakfast she cooked doesn't taste good.

I like to be challenged. I like someone who is not afraid to argue with me or tell me their own opinion. I feel like every "nice guy" i meet just wants to please me. And im not into that. I need someone who can keep up with me and not be afraid to put me in my place if i get too bitchy or pushy as i know i can be. I dont want to be with a guy i can walk all over. I would prefer to be equals with a guy rather than just have him try to please me and agreee with me. Maybe some nice guys are different but all the ones I've met are like this

Yes, absolutely a guy who just lets a girl walk all over him, then turns around and blames the girl for using him and not not being grateful. etc. This is the wrong path to start a relationship. Best to be upfront with expectations/your likes/dislikes.

@Lioness I totally agree with this, I fully admit I have been that "nice guy" in the past and sometimes it takes that wake up slap to make you realise that you need to have your boundaries and expect things to be 50/50 and not to try to please all the time and if that means disagreeing with the other half and being direct about it then do it, if the relationship is strong it will not harm it. know what you want and be assertive enough about it without being aggressive to set an equal footing and if that person shows a lack of want to put in their half of the effort then you walk away.

Nice guys are always good. Just has to have a limit so it doesn't become stifling.

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Opinion Owner

Just saw your update. You know what, that's the world we live in. If you go on the street and offer somebody help like an old person with their heavy bags or something, you'll only be eyed with suspicion. Most people in the world aren't nice or have ulterior motives when they are nice, and we're all constantly reminded of that, so real nice people will always be eyed with a little suspicion.

What Guys Said 31

The term nice guys has been hijacked it's now just associated with these fat losers who say they treat girls with respect and act like pussies and beg for sex and when they get none they go fuck those bitches just want jerks. Real shame your branded a loser for saying it.

There's nothing wrong with a nice guy. It's not bad. It just does not match what girls are looking for during certain periods of their life.

A nice guy who is level-headed, thinks rationally, is predictable and settled down is probably not a good match for a young girl.

For example, I was 27 when I met a hot university freshman who was 17. We were together for about 2 years, and it was very obvious we were a mismatch. I was finished school, ran a small business while working a full-time job. I had already bought my own home and pretty much ready to settle down and have a wife and kids. On the other hand, my girlfriend was starting university. She spent her day in classes, doing homework, studying for exams - and in between she was drinking, clubbing and partying. I stayed with her because she was super cute, but I knew it would never work out due to the difference in age and lifestyle.

Fast forward almost 8 years later to the present. She is now finished school and working a standard job in a medical lab. She no longer goes to the club or bars, and has settled with basically someone who was like me back then (out of school and working).

If you're young, similarly young girls are not going to be interested in settling down with a nice guy. If you're a timid, introverted male, that's probably a crappy combination if you're looking for a pretty, extroverted and playful young girlfriend.

Honestly I don't think its because they are not nice. I think its because its what women want to want, being forced to face the reality that it is not what they actually want they make excuses for why he wasn't "really" a nice guy. Now that isn't to say some are not, but most nice guys get upset mainly because they are told constantly that women like nice guys only for them to be rejected again and again for the very quality that women profess to want in a man. That then turns them bitter. women, whether they wish to admit it or not, want a dominant guy, assertive and some what controlling. Now that isn't to say they want this to the extreme but they do want it, its hard wired. Women are taught to be independent and assertive basicly masculin traits, but biologicly their hardwired to want a man to be assertive and as such this causes an issue where they claim to want a nice guy but then realize they don't and don't know how to cope with the cognitive dissonence between what they think and what they feel. Now its not a popular opinion but I think their is a reason most women profess to like "rough" sex and why the rape fantasy is the number one fantasy for women (statisticly speaking of course). Both are about aggression/assertiveness from the man and loss of control for the woman. This is hard wired as a man who was always worring did not make a good leader, a man who hesitated would most likely die or risk his family, historicly speaking. So we now have a conflict where women are being encouraged to take on these traits yet biologicly are compelled to want them in their mate (which I think is responsible for the rise of the rape fantasy, the extremeness to compensate for the womans own assertiveness, if that makes sense). So the best bet is, as @Lioness put it is to be a nice guy but not too nice, you need to show you can take control, be assertive but not compromise your kindness as well ie be balanced, that way you appeal to her on a instincitve biological level and a cerebral level. It also doesn't help that we are, as all things, a transitional creature. We have the reptilian brain that is the aggressive side that women historicly needed to survive but we also have the primate brain which would be the more civilized side that craves a man who is kind and a good providor one that can ensure her and her offspring, if that makes sense.

Because most Western World women label all good men "even the ones that are actually good men and not self entitled nice guys" as only wanting to get in the girl's pants and treat them like shit. Women are the cause of men turning into bad boys, because most women always go for the bad boy. Then they bitch, moan, say sexist things about men and become bitter misandrists when their heart gets broken and blame men when it is actually only the woman's fault for dating a bad man.

On the internet, and to a large extent in real life, a nice guy is essentially a spineless wimp who won't grow some balls and kiss her already. No matter the counter arguments, the basic idea that a Nice Guy is someone who won't make a move out of fear of rejection tends to be largely correct.

They're needy, supplicating, have no backbone, don't stand up for themselves, they try to agree with you on everything (this is what makes them boring), they think their "niceness" are carnival tickets or arcade tokens meaning they "act nice" (by being supplicating and boring) then place all sorts of expectations on you for that niceness.

Again I'm gay, but gay guys probably think like straight girls and nice guys are disgusting to me. Literally repulsive, fake, and make me cringe. That's not to say that people like assholes, they just like people who are genuine, stand up for themselves, and don't come across as needy or supplicating. In other words, stop trying to be nice and start being yourself and hiding behind a fake social mask.

The opinion I ultimately arrived at is that the woman in question, drunk on her own erotic power, approaches dating as a bullfight, looking not for someone to build a home with but for someone to break. When you think about it in these terms, the adjective "boring" makes more sense. Where's the fun in killing your pet dachshund? No, when you're out for a kill, you want something that might actually hurt you, like a bull or a tiger. As for the "they're actually not nice but entitled" rigmarole, I consider that little more than a retroactive justification for decisions already made. After all, there is absolutely nothing more entitled than an unabashed player who acts as if the world is his fingerbowl.

If you do something nice for someone because you think girls like that and she'll like you for doing it, then you're just manipulative and sexist.

If you do something nice for someone because you know that's what she likes and you actually know her and care about her as a person and not just because you want her to want to have sex with you, then you're probably actually nice.

Here is my take on it from a "nice guy" perspective.So, I've always been told I am a nice guy and I have always considered myself one too. I've been with about 16 girls total, some of which were head over heals for me, whereas others just lost interest over time. You know what the difference was? It all came down to how much attention I gave them and how interested I actually was into them. The less interested I was in a girl, the less I cared about if they were in my life or not, which made them want me even more because I did not make myself completely "attainable." But with the girls that I pursued and was interested in, they enjoyed the idea of a nice guy in the beginning I believe, but within a few months lost interest. Why you ask? Because I showed them attention, I told them I cared and that I missed them, Id drop what I was doing for them, I made them the center of my world because that's what women want right? A guy who has an eye for them and only them. This is true to only an extent.Women say that want all of this nice guy stuff but always go for the bad boy don't they? Because the bad boy is exciting, unpredictable, and untamable. He is the ultimate award if she can win him over. However, I believe these are the only qualities women enjoy about the badboy, I would imagine most women don't enjoy being verbally and physically abused. But what it comes down to is the chase and the mystery behind the guy. Look at James Bond for example, you wouldn't call him a bad boy yet women are ready to drop their panties for him because he is mysterious and unattainable. There are girls that I have met maybe twice and just stopped talking to, and months later they are still trying to talk to me, but why? its not like we established a strong connection or had deep conversations or had passionate sex. But this kind of behavior keeps theyre minds stimulated. It gets their gears turning and wondering if you are interested in them and how they can win you over. Otherwise, they get bored and lose interest fast. Id say from my own experience that this behavior in women is most common from 18 to about 28.Also, say an attractive 22 year old meets a great guy overall with everything she wants in a guy. Youd think shed want something serious with him right? This may be true, but she is also young and still may want to have "fun" while she is still young. She may see the great guy as someone to be with later in life, just not while she's young.Point is, be unattainable.

I've heard this a lot and for the most part it seems to hit a very broad spectrum of people in general. That they want to achieve the ultimate goal. The sweat heart girl wants to tame the bad guy, the average guy wants to make the super model trip over herself when she sees him. And any of the other thousands of examples we could think of.

as someone who used to be really nice to girls i will tell you this , girls dig those who dont care, are always cool and are confident and not afraid to say something , if you think something say it it doesn't matter what she thinks , neglect her and she will come after you, dont be an ass that doesn't exactly help but have this attitude that girls dont matter that much even though you care about them and that they are not going to stop you from doing what you want when you want , I don't know why dont ask me but that gets them everytime.

My ex from here in Tennessee was a really sweet girl but she still cheated on me. She was llying about seeing another guy behind my back. Another ex was nice but had family issues so it wasn't going to workMy last ex was great but lived too far and dud whatever mom said to do

I'm a " nice " guy or so people say but nice doesn't pay bills or have a future with and that's why I'm single. No car no job due to having had a stroke. Girls say it's not an issue but it is it really is. People want someone they can either have a fling with or grow old with and no matter how " hot or nice " you are, it comes down to do they really like you more than friend and do they see a future with you. Some nice guys think I'll be nice and she'll break later on but that's the wrong way. Just keep looking and someday you'll find someone. It's a bullshit promise but it might happen. Better odds at being yourself than fake I suppose.

I think "nice guy" has just become another terminology for something else these past couple years. I think when women say they hate the "nice guys" now they mean the guys who claim they are nice but aren't and only wanna get in a woman's pants.

One day I hope both men and women get their heads out of the brainwashing helmet they must be wearing outside this matrix and realize that there is no such thing as a bad boy or a nice guy every guy is both and picks which part of him to show more often than the other.