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Introduction to Linux - A Hands on Guide

This guide was created as an overview of the Linux Operating System, geared toward new users as an exploration tour and getting started guide, with exercises at the end of each chapter.
For more advanced trainees it can be a desktop reference, and a collection of the base knowledge needed to proceed with system and network administration. This book contains many real life examples derived from the author's experience as a Linux system and network administrator, trainer and consultant. They hope these examples will help you to get a better understanding of the Linux system and that you feel encouraged to try out things on your own.

That is one of the most confusing 'everything including the kitchen sink' setups I've ever seen.

You've got parts all over the place, many of which are pretty much useless. Why buy a gigabit network card when you'll get gigabit onboard?

Some of those parts you'd have to buy 2nd hand, _if_ you can find them at all, and they are outclassed by newer parts that you could find cheaper, e.g. Phenom II X6 1055T, Geforce 6800GS/6800GT.

Some things are stil avaible, but stupidly priced. Who is going to pay $220 for a 15'' 1024x768 ViewEra V151HV-B LCD?

Some stuff was pretty much a joke when it was new, e.g. the bay coolers. 3 x 40mm fans blow very litle air and are noisy.

A lot of it makes no sense at all to me. Why on earth have 1 x SATA burner and 1 x IDE burner? (and BTW, plextor used to be amazing, these days they are just average and have been rather anti-linux a few times) . Why on earth 'fill' all the RAM slots when at least with the DDR3 boards you can max out the RAM with 2 sticks (less RAM sticks tends to be more stable). Why look at HDD coolers when there are various cases you've listed with hard mounted fan spots for the 5.25''/3.5'' bays?

I keep looking at all those 'mobile racks', which are fine if you need and have a use for them, are actually counterproductive if you dont...think that doesnt make sense? Well, its pretty hard for the airflow from a 3 x 40mm bay cooler (or better yet, a 80mm+ fan mounted to the case) to reach the HDD at all if its stuck into a 'mobile rack'. There is also stuff like the eSATA card, which is an error on various levels IMO- its PCI so its limited to 133MB/sec....2 x eSATA can use more than 133MB/swec bandwidth. Most of the gigiabyte AMD 770 (and others as well) chipsets support chnaging 1 or 2 SATA ports to eSATA.

I'd be rethinking this whole setup.

*edit and the Phenom II X6 has turbocore, which requires linux kernel 2.6.35 onward. Old distros without turbocore support might work, but I wouldnt use them with a turbocore CPU.

What is the intended use anyway?

I've been doing Google search: Realtek 8111c+linux problems. I have not found alot, but what I have seen, I ain't liking much. Why buy a gigabit network card? The Realtek chip might not work with my chosen legacy kernels, or it might not work at 1000Mbit, or the onboard could fail after year or two. Call it contingency planning, call it risk mitigation, call it future proofing, call it hoarding...whatever floats your boat. I call it a spare parts bank. I sure cannot depend on Newegg,
TigerDirect,etc., to have what I want when I want it! Despite my network of legacy suppliers, I can no longer find Asrock K10N78D, M3N78D, & M3N78d FX. As for the network card, I'll include it with the parts I present to the custom-build shop, with instructions to confirm that the onboard will work with Linux at 1000Mbit, and if not , disable, and install the card.

Everything on my parts-list I have a source for (how long I can't say). Legacy parts come, they go, sometimes they return, sometimes not. Some are used, some refurbished, some new (i.e. unopened). I've no desire to cheapskate this build, nor to spend more than necessary. A bargain is no bargain unless its worth more than you pay, and its exactly what you want. If I have to pay $220 for the specific LCD monitor I want, I got no problem with that....yet I'm quite unwilling to waste $1000 for some 50" next-gen LCD that the herd is drooling over...go figure! Guess my priorities are just all screwed up, huh? What can I say but that going legacy comes at a price, and I'm content to pay it. Some components are a lot cheaper than when Newegg sold them, and some a lot more expensive.

I'll re-evaluate the bay coolers. I'd intended to sandwich them between the three HDDs:
HDD #1
cooler
HDD #2
cooler
HDD #3
Maybe leaving the two 5.25 bays empty will add a little cooling via better air circulation? FYI, I was aware of the 51.5dBA of the Lian Li cooler, but was planning to replace the Sunon fans with quieter ones if I'd gotten it (but was leaning towards the Evercool). Why look at HDD coolers? Maybe because I had anticipated the problem of using mobile-racks, and thought any additional cooling of 'bay coolers' and added 'case fans' was wise? If you don't agree, then tell me what will get the job done, as I'm out of ideas, and I absolutely need the mobile-racks.

One SATA burner & HDD for those kernels that support it; one IDE/EIDE burner & HDD for any that don't.

I got no big crush on Plextor- two Linux sites gave PX-880SA a cheer, but if you want to suggest a model number from when they "used to be amazing", I'll look for it. If you want to suggest a better brand/model number, feel free (just no Sony).

Research indicated that the only thing more expensive than high-end RAM is the bigger size modules of high-end RAM. But I'll listen to your recommendations...whether or not I can afford to act on them is another story.

Thanks for the eSATA card tip-exactly sort of info needed, as that mistake would of sailed past me. So would a eSATA card for PCIe x1 slot work? Is the firewire card good to go if needed?

Total overhaul? I think not! All is needed is to iron out the wrinkles, and trim the fat.

The intended use is inconsequentia. Any junk computer on sale at Walmart could do the usual uses. The purpose is what's important. Focus on making sure this build supports kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6, and that there are no fatal incompatibilities. That's what I need help with...rest will take care of itself.

If I have to pay $220 for the specific LCD monitor I want, I got no problem with that....yet I'm quite unwilling to waste $1000 for some 50" next-gen LCD that the herd is drooling over...go figure! Guess my priorities are just all screwed up, huh?

I dont see anything at all specical about that 15'' ViewEra V151HV-B. $220 at newegg-

Research indicated that the only thing more expensive than high-end RAM is the bigger size modules of high-end RAM. But I'll listen to your recommendations...whether or not I can afford to act on them is another story.

I'll re-evaluate the bay coolers. I'd intended to sandwich them between the three HDDs:
HDD #1
cooler
HDD #2
cooler
HDD #3
Maybe leaving the two 5.25 bays empty will add a little cooling via better air circulation? FYI, I was aware of the 51.5dBA of the Lian Li cooler, but was planning to replace the Sunon fans with quieter ones if I'd gotten it (but was leaning towards the Evercool). Why look at HDD coolers? Maybe because I had anticipated the problem of using mobile-racks, and thought any additional cooling of 'bay coolers' and added 'case fans' was wise? If you don't agree, then tell me what will get the job done, as I'm out of ideas, and I absolutely need the mobile-racks.

No matter what 40mm fans you get, they will still be either loud, move tiny amounts of air, or both.

At least some of the cases you listed have 80mm/120mm case fans...they blow more fair than 3 x 40mm fans, are quieter, and a lot cheaper.

You wont get good airflow through mobile racks. EVen if you do some hacking/moding (e.g hacking air holes into the rack case), the amount of airflow is still very low. Just one of the reasons why I really dislike removable HDD racks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecolote

I've been doing Google search: Realtek 8111c+linux problems. I have not found alot, but what I have seen, I ain't liking much. Why buy a gigabit network card? The Realtek chip might not work with my chosen legacy kernels, or it might not work at 1000Mbit, or the onboard could fail after year or two. Call it contingency planning, call it risk mitigation, call it future proofing, call it hoarding...whatever floats your boat. I call it a spare parts bank. I sure cannot depend on Newegg,
TigerDirect,etc., to have what I want when I want it!

You'll find problems with every bit of hardware.

There is no point in buying a networkcard 'just in case the onobard fails'. Network cards are always avaible, mostly cheap, and very easy to install. Buying now in case of problems later is just increasing your costs for no gain.

Of course not. Old motherboards disappear and tend to never come back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecolote

As for the network card, I'll include it with the parts I present to the custom-build shop, with instructions to confirm that the onboard will work with Linux at 1000Mbit, and if not , disable, and install the card.

Really, really bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecolote

Everything on my parts-list I have a source for (how long I can't say). Legacy parts come, they go, sometimes they return, sometimes not. Some are used, some refurbished, some new (i.e. unopened). I've no desire to cheapskate this build, nor to spend more than necessary. A bargain is no bargain unless its worth more than you pay, and its exactly what you want. What can I say but that going legacy comes at a price, and I'm content to pay it. Some components are a lot cheaper than when Newegg sold them, and some a lot more expensive.

Sometimes the older stuff is cheaper..but a video card that used to cost $500+ on sale now for $250 is not a bargin if (as is the case) a $100 GT 640 is faster everywhere, has a much better 'feature set' and uses a lot less power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecolote

The intended use is inconsequentia. Any junk computer on sale at Walmart could do the usual uses. The purpose is what's important. Focus on making sure this build supports kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6, and that there are no fatal incompatibilities. That's what I need help with...rest will take care of itself.

I looked through some other threads you had on your 'legacy' stuff with ancient kernels.

I cant see any good reason to do it, and you havent given any when people have asked/wondered what the point is.

Sorry, but I dont like to help people who want to run obsolete and unsupported OSes.

TobiSGD has a good point. Dont bother with all this 'legacy' stuff that is going to cost you more than a modern system. Just run a current OS with decent hardware supoport and 'test' your ancient OSEs/kernels in a VM.

The suggestion of a VM presupposes that I do not really want to do a build using legacy hardware, and looking for some option that will allow me to do a 'latest&greatest' build using the freshest and most recent components.

The fact is I have absolutely no interest in doing any sort of 'latest&greatest' build, so it therefore follows I would have no interest in using VM to make possible the doing of such a build. This is a legacy build, and this is not going to change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobiSGD

I still don't quite get what your actual goal is for that machine. Need support for the kernels you mentioned? Just use a VM, no need for some legacy build.

Of course you don't! The ViewEra uses 1024x768, which I know Geforce 6800 series can handle (and most of my targeted kernels too), it has VGA, and it does not have that gawd-awful touchscreen nonsense. Yeah sure, and if my video card or kernels cannot handle your "1280x1024" monitor, why that's no problem at all- just get a current graphics card (I bet this is where that GT640 sneaks in)and exchange that old Ubuntu 9.04 with a new Ubuntu 13.04 (that's sure to support it), and once I've been conned into going that far, I might as well go whole-hog; scrap the legacy build altogether and do a full-on 'latest&greatest' build!

Okay, point taken...research has left out a few major details. I'll look into it further, and welcome more info on RAM.

I still require mobile-racks. I doubt you like them that has built-in fans any better.

Network cards are always available. CPUs are always available. Graphics cards are always available. Question is will the network card, the graphics card, and the CPU I want always be available? The Asrock motherboards I wanted sure ain't, so I suspect the answer is no!

Let me clue you in. Whether or not you can "see any good reason to do it" is less than meaningless. I have absolutely no need to provide any such good reasons to justify myself, my build, my goals, or anything else to anyone. I do not require your approval to do a legacy build, nor do I require anyone's permission to do so. So if you "don't like to help people who want to run "obsolete and unsupported OSes", no apology is necessary, but I am curious as to why you're here. Just what is the raison d'etre for your presence and participation in this thread? From the get-go, I made it crystal clear this was a legacy build, beginning with legacy software, moving into legacy hardware, and asking for help choosing legacy components to support legacy kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6. Just where were you decieved into thinking this was not about "obsolete and unsupported OSes"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cascade9

I dont see anything at all specical about that 15'' ViewEra V151HV-B. $220 at newegg-

No matter what 40mm fans you get, they will still be either loud, move tiny amounts of air, or both.

At least some of the cases you listed have 80mm/120mm case fans...they blow more fair than 3 x 40mm fans, are quieter, and a lot cheaper.

You wont get good airflow through mobile racks. EVen if you do some hacking/moding (e.g hacking air holes into the rack case), the amount of airflow is still very low. Just one of the reasons why I really dislike removable HDD racks.

You'll find problems with every bit of hardware.

There is no point in buying a networkcard 'just in case the onobard fails'. Network cards are always avaible, mostly cheap, and very easy to install. Buying now in case of problems later is just increasing your costs for no gain.

Of course not. Old motherboards disappear and tend to never come back.

Really, really bad idea.

Sometimes the older stuff is cheaper..but a video card that used to cost $500+ on sale now for $250 is not a bargin if (as is the case) a $100 GT 640 is faster everywhere, has a much better 'feature set' and uses a lot less power.

I looked through some other threads you had on your 'legacy' stuff with ancient kernels.

I cant see any good reason to do it, and you havent given any when people have asked/wondered what the point is.

Sorry, but I dont like to help people who want to run obsolete and unsupported OSes.

TobiSGD has a good point. Dont bother with all this 'legacy' stuff that is going to cost you more than a modern system. Just run a current OS with decent hardware supoport and 'test' your ancient OSEs/kernels in a VM.

Of course you don't! The ViewEra uses 1024x768, which I know Geforce 6800 series can handle (and most of my targeted kernels too), it has VGA, and it does not have that gawd-awful touchscreen nonsense. Yeah sure, and if my video card or kernels cannot handle your "1280x1024" monitor, why that's no problem at all- just get a current graphics card (I bet this is where that GT640 sneaks in)and exchange that old Ubuntu 9.04 with a new Ubuntu 13.04 (that's sure to support it), and once I've been conned into going that far, I might as well go whole-hog; scrap the legacy build altogether and do a full-on 'latest&greatest' build!

You really dont know hardware do you?

There should be no problem running a 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 monitor with earlier xorg versions. I know that worked with debian 'sarge' which is ealier than your target. Geforce 6 series goes to 2048x1536 @ 85Hz (and earlier, I've run a GF4MX440 @ 1920x1440).

Network cards are always available. CPUs are always available. Graphics cards are always available. Question is will the network card, the graphics card, and the CPU I want always be available? The Asrock motherboards I wanted sure ain't, so I suspect the answer is no!

If 'the XXXX' is just a model number picked because its old then there will be supply issues. Try finding replacement pistons for a model T ford.

But as long as you have currently supported hardware expansion slots, finding a network card that is linux friendly is pretty easy.

Its not like you're trying to find a ISA network card. PCI might go away soon, PCIe is going to be around for a long time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecolote

Let me clue you in. Whether or not you can "see any good reason to do it" is less than meaningless. I have absolutely no need to provide any such good reasons to justify myself, my build, my goals, or anything else to anyone. I do not require your approval to do a legacy build, nor do I require anyone's permission to do so. So if you "don't like to help people who want to run "obsolete and unsupported OSes", no apology is necessary, but I am curious as to why you're here. Just what is the raison d'etre for your presence and participation in this thread? From the get-go, I made it crystal clear this was a legacy build, beginning with legacy software, moving into legacy hardware, and asking for help choosing legacy components to support legacy kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6. Just where were you decieved into thinking this was not about "obsolete and unsupported OSes"?

I'm here trying to help people with hardware for use with linux.

I never said I was 'decieved', and there are some supported OSes which use very early kernels.

I do debate how 'legacy' this is. A 2004 video card (6800 series) with a 2008 IIRC chipset (nVidia 720d) and a 2010 CPU (Phenom II X6 1055T) to run linux kernels from 2009 and earlier isnt really a 'legacy' build IMO, its a mess.

I still don't quite get what your actual goal is for that machine. Need support for the kernels you mentioned? Just use a VM, no need for some legacy build.

I suspect the only reason to suggest VM is because you wish to believe (along with so many others) that I don't really want to do a legacy build, using legacy components, as I'm really only looking for a way to do a 'latest&greatest' build, and so will embrace any alternative that makes this possible. The reality is that this is a custom-build,designed specifically to run legacy software, using legacy components chosen to support legacy kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6. As I already said so many times before that I'm starting to think I've been trapped in a TV commercial, where I must constantly repeat the product name and salient points endlessly.

The fact is I have absolutely zero interest in either buying or building a PC utilizing the newest, greatest, & factory-freshest components, so it therefore follows I got no interest in using VM to make possible such a build.

There should be no problem running a 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 monitor with earlier xorg versions. I know that worked with debian 'sarge' which is ealier than your target. Geforce 6 series goes to 2048x1536 @ 85Hz (and earlier, I've run a GF4MX440 @ 1920x1440).

If 'the XXXX' is just a model number picked because its old then there will be supply issues. Try finding replacement pistons for a model T ford.

But as long as you have currently supported hardware expansion slots, finding a network card that is linux friendly is pretty easy.

Its not like you're trying to find a ISA network card. PCI might go away soon, PCIe is going to be around for a long time...

I'm here trying to help people with hardware for use with linux.

I never said I was 'decieved', and there are some supported OSes which use very early kernels.

I do debate how 'legacy' this is. A 2004 video card (6800 series) with a 2008 IIRC chipset (nVidia 720d) and a 2010 CPU (Phenom II X6 1055T) to run linux kernels from 2009 and earlier isnt really a 'legacy' build IMO, its a mess.

If all the components in this build can handle the increased screen resolution, and the linux kernels can also handle it, then I will reconsider the monitor choice. Just know that 'touchscreen', and non-VGA connectors are not acceptable.

I'll let you and the 'latest&greatest' zealots fuss it out as to whether or not my choice of CPU, video card, and motherboard is or is not legacy. As for "its a mess", maybe if you gave one-tenth the effort into trying to fix the mess, as you do in thinking up ploys to convert this 'legacy' build into the exact opposite, it would not be so. If you want to help me un-mess this build, and finish this parts-list, that would be appreciated. If you only goal is to talk me into wanting what I don't want, or not wanting what I do want, that is not appreciated. I don't care what the 'latest&greatest' CPU is called (Bulldozer? Atomsmasher? Planet Buster? Space-time Ripper?), how many cores it has, how much cheaper it is than Phenom2 x6,etc. I also don't care that XP Pro is about to go 'end of support', so it tends to follow that I'll have the same outlook about Linux distro releases that are 'EOL', no longer supported, etc. Your wants ain't my wants, your needs ain't my needs.

The fact is I have absolutely zero interest in either buying or building a PC utilizing the newest, greatest, & factory-freshest components, so it therefore follows I got no interest in using VM to make possible such a build.

You realize that a machine with the CPU you plan to use (I actually have the same CPU in my main machine) is capable to run several VMs simultaneously without any problems? So you actually are already building a machine that you don't want to build.

I suspect the only reason to suggest VM is because you wish to believe (along with so many others) that I don't really want to do a legacy build, using legacy components, as I'm really only looking for a way to do a 'latest&greatest' build, and so will embrace any alternative that makes this possible. The reality is that this is a custom-build,designed specifically to run legacy software, using legacy components chosen to support legacy kernels 2.4.31 through 2.6.29.6. As I already said so many times before that I'm starting to think I've been trapped in a TV commercial, where I must constantly repeat the product name and salient points endlessly.

'Designed specifically to run legacy software', eh?

If you want a system to run 'legacy software' then you really want hardware older than the oldest linux kernel version you plan on using.

2.4.31 is a mid 2005 release, so you want hardware older than that. Using 2008 chipset and 2010 CPU is more than likely going to run into some _major_ problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecolote

As for "its a mess", maybe if you gave one-tenth the effort into trying to fix the mess, as you do in thinking up ploys to convert this 'legacy' build into the exact opposite, it would not be so. If you want to help me un-mess this build, and finish this parts-list, that would be appreciated.

If you had given a decent reason for your pseudo-legacy build, maybe you would have recived a better expereince?

Suggesting using a 9XX chipset over a 8XX or 7XX does not make this a 'latest and greatest' build.

This is a troll thread if no one has noticed yet. Hate to bump it but seems no one has realized this. No one with half a brain would do this deliberately. If he/she really thinks they are gonna save money or make the build cost less by going ancient he / she is beyond help if this is a legitimate thread.

This is a troll thread if no one has noticed yet. Hate to bump it but seems no one has realized this. No one with half a brain would do this deliberately.

While the OP has been very quiet on some issues (like 'what is the intended use'), but I dont think its a troll thread.

I've seen many 'legacy' systems, and built a few (mostly for old DOS or Win9X era gaming). While this is one of the craziest parts lists I've seen, I can see how the OP picked at least some of the parts they want.

Its just overall the system doesnt make sense, and will not work properly with the ancient kernels the OP wants to use.....and could even cause hardware damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tadaen

If he/she really thinks they are gonna save money or make the build cost less by going ancient he / she is beyond help if this is a legitimate thread.

I doubt its about money....Even if you check the parts that are somewhat getable new now, they arent cheap.

You could build a whole new system for less than the cost of the bay coolers, mobile racks, docking station etc..

You realize that a machine with the CPU you plan to use (I actually have the same CPU in my main machine) is capable to run several VMs simultaneously without any problems? So you actually are already building a machine that you don't want to build.

Yes, I'm aware that PhenomII x6 1055T is not perfect, it was just the best/most powerful I could find that would work with any/all the motherboards. I still got zero interest in using its VM junk.

Apparently, I will need to downsize my CPU choice anyway, if cascade9 is to be believed-getting harder to tell when he is serious,and when he's pulling another conversion attempt for the 'latest&greatest' cult.

This is a troll thread if no one has noticed yet. Hate to bump it but seems no one has realized this. No one with half a brain would do this deliberately. If he/she really thinks they are gonna save money or make the build cost less by going ancient he / she is beyond help if this is a legitimate thread.

That or OP is a true real life hipster?\

I'll probably get reported for this post.

Was wondering when the resident wannabe-censor would come a calling. Ain't nothing beats the shrill pig-like squeals of TROLL! TROLL! to silence them gawd-awful heretics, apostates, and other dissidents.

Yes, I'm aware that PhenomII x6 1055T is not perfect, it was just the best/most powerful I could find that would work with any/all the motherboards. I still got zero interest in using its VM junk.

Apparently, I will need to downsize my CPU choice anyway, if cascade9 is to be believed-getting harder to tell when he is serious,and when he's pulling another conversion attempt for the 'latest&greatest' cult.

When you want to achieve your goal with spending much more money and getting parts not easily available for no good reason that is of course up to you. I was just mentioning that you already build a machine that you try to tell us we want to sell you.

If you believe cascade9 or not is also up to you, I personally would, he is one of the most knowledgeable members regarding hardware that LQ has.