Comments on: When in Doubt, Park ‘Emhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/
a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justiceSat, 27 Sep 2014 17:28:19 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3By: Luis Cayetanohttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81653
Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:11:21 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81653”Obviously Luis Cayetano should do more analysis before making the ignorant comments he did above about the Libyan politics. ”

It’s impossible to assess that claim since you don’t provide any elaboration.

Sorry, I made a mistake. Musa Sadr is not Mugtada’s father, but he is a cousin of Musa al-Sadr (the disappeared Imam), the Iranian-Lebanese founder of the popular Amal Movement. They are all related.

{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-Sadr}

Thank you for your attention.

]]>By: Deadbeathttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81626
Sat, 26 Feb 2011 17:25:14 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81626Thank you Shabnam for your insightful response and thank you for the references. Those references certainly provide helpful information and insight. Obviously Luis Cayetano should do more analysis before making the ignorant comments he did above about the Libyan politics.

Looking at the timing of what’s happening in Libya is questionable. Recently after the fall of Mubarak, the U.S. was hoping to stage a disruption in Iran but that attempt failed miserably so the Zionists are now going after Libya which is keeping within their agenda in this context.

Thanks again Shabnam for your insightful commentary.

]]>By: Luis Cayetanohttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81619
Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:53:37 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81619Should have said ”What stands between chaos and stability is Gaddafi’s desire to stay in power”. There is chaos now, but in the Gaddafi strong holds. There is stability in the rebel strongholds.
]]>By: Luis Cayetanohttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81618
Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:50:29 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81618”Gaddafi is a leader of a sovereign nation; like it or not is not important. He has to remove the choas to bring stability”

This is the exact opposite of the truth. Gaddafi could bring ”stability” at any moment by stepping down (as his people want him to). What stands between stability and chaos is Gaddafi’s desire to stay in power. But the Libyan people are under no obligation to live under this buffoon. Or don’t you agree?

You’re using the word stability in exactly the same sense as the United States and Israel use it when they talk about their divine right to control other people. Gaddafi, when he invokes stability, simply means ”do what I tell you.” If you were interested in stability in the literal sense, rather than this power-serving sense, you’d appreciate the fact that the residents of Benghazi have organised themselves quite admirably and restored order to their city, without any help from Gaddafi. The residents of Cairo likewise were admirably well-behaved and civil, unlike Mubarak’s thugs.

{I agree with much of shabnam’s analysis except I have to question the reason why Qaddafi would cut a deal with the West. Shabnam’s explanation would seems as if Qaddafi made those agreements merely out of fear. But there were never any indications that Libya was on the Bush Administration’s hit list and Libya made those agreements AFTER the invasion of Iraq. So I think there may be more to Qaddafi cutting agreements with the West than fear.}

Thank you for your comment Deadbeat. I should say when someone is in power for more than 42 years, and then something is wrong regardless of his/her intension. However, Gaddafi has shown that IS NOT A PUPPET of Imperialism or Zionism by looking at his past. He is a secular leader and has given concessions to the West when Libya was under attack. True, he has cut a deal with the West, especially after 2003, because he thought r Libya could not survive. But, contrary to your assessment, LIBYA HAS BEEN A TARGET OF THE EVIL FORCES for REGIME CHANGE all these years. In fact most of the countries in North Africa including Libya are included for regime change.

As Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya has written:

{Libya has been in the cross-hairs of the Pentagon for years. According to Wesley Clark, the retired general who was the supreme military commander of NATO, Libya was on a Pentagon list of nations to be invaded after Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. The list included Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, and lastly Iran. In Clark’s own words:
So I came back to see him [a high ranking military officer in the Pentagon] a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defence’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”
In one way or another all the nations on the list have been attacked directly or indirectly and all of them, but Syria and Iran, have succumbed to the U.S. and its allies. Again, the only exceptions are Iran and its ally Syria. In Lebanon, the U.S. has made partial gains, but it is now receding with the decline of the Hariri-led March 14 Alliance.

Libya started secret negotiations with Washington in 2001 that materialized into formal rapprochement after the fall of Baghdad to British and American troops in 2003. Yet, the U.S. and its allies have always wanted to expand their influence over the Libyan energy sector and to appropriate Libya’s vast wealth. A civil war provides the best cover for this.}
{http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23375}

I hope you understand that Libya with population of 6 million is not in a position to go and fight Imperialism and Zionism alone with their tremendous amount of resources, military, financial and propaganda media. Iran, contrary to Eric Walberg who has painted a ROSY picture in the Middle East, Iran still is in the cross-hairs of Zionism and imperialism and the enemies are searching new avenue to target Iran. The fight is FAR FROM BEING OVER.

In Iran some religious circles are against Gaddafi because they hold Gaddafi responsible for disappearance of Shiite leader, own reason. This reason is also behind other Shiite groups in Lebanon, Iraq and elsewhere who are outspoken for the demise of Gaddafi where I don’t agree with it.
The reason behind this hatred lies the disappearance of Musa Sadr, the father of Mogtada al-Sadr in Iraq which I think is the motive.

{Mūsá aṣ-Ṣadr (1929-disappeared in 1978) , also Musā-ye Sader and Moussa Sadr), was an Iranian-born Lebanese philosopher and Shī‘ah religious leader who disappeared in August 1978. According to the former Libyan envoy to the Arab League, al-Sadr was executed in Libya in 1978.

{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_al-Sadr}

In August 1978, al-Sadr and two companions Sheikh Muhammad Yaacoub and journalist Abbas Badreddine departed for Libya to meet with government officials. The three were never heard from again. It is widely believed that the Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi ordered aṣ-Ṣadr’s killing, but the motivation is unknown. Libya has consistently denied responsibility, claiming that al-Ṣadr and his companions left Libya for Italy.}
Please review the given link for more information.

This is the main reason behind Shiites confrontation with Gaddafi. Abdulla Shahbazi who writes on intelligence and security hold Mossad responsible for Imam Musa assassination according to his documents.
He says: Mossad in a meeting with the Savak, Shah’s secret police, told them (We have arranged a situation that will lead to DISAPPEARNCE of Musa Sadr. You should think about his future substitute). The shah’s secret police, Savak, was looking to get rid of him because they believed Musa Sadr was training people to fight against the Shah.
Musa Sadr was against Israel and Zionism.
This is one reason. There are other reasons that I am not going to go into which are responsible for some circles in Iran to be against Gaddafi. I believe neither Ahmadinejad, nor Khamenei is that stupid to follow this line of politics? But since they are silent, I don’t know the truth yet.

I don’t see this as a contest like you. I agree with much of shabnam’s analysis except I have to question the reason why Qaddafi would cut a deal with the West. Shabnam’s explanation would seems as if Qaddafi made those agreements merely out of fear. But there were never any indications that Libya was on the Bush Administration’s hit list and Libya made those agreements AFTER the invasion of Iraq. So I think there may be more to Qaddafi cutting agreements with the West than fear.

I’ve look on Press TV web site to find some balance to the Western sources and it seems there that they are taking a rather critical stance against Qaddafi as well. Qaddafi has been a long time nemesis of the West so it there is a clear bias with MSM reporting of Libya. But Press TV reports doesn’t seem to indicate any fondness for Qaddafi either.

It seems to me that the opportunism of the West to focus on Qaddafi’s troubles help to take the focus AWAY from Egypt where the West is deeply concern of the fallout of the Egyptian revolution with the hope that the Egyptian military retains power. The Egyptian people are not giving up its revolution and this is a major fear among the Zionists.

I have no problem being completely wrong either so my position is not set in stone. I’d like to know more and hope those in the know can share their knowledge and perspectives with us.

]]>By: hayatehttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81569
Fri, 25 Feb 2011 04:33:42 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81569There is no doubt israeloamerica is at least “helping along” the protests in Libya. They are probably heavily involved in doing their usual “Neda Soltani” random murder ops, as well. Meanwhile, the zionist old hague is up to its usual public skoolboi tricks:

“Gaddafi not Fleeing to Venezuela” Say Government Officials

By Tamara Pearson

(excerpts)

“Mérida, February 22nd 2011 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – In response to rumours based on a comment made by British Foreign Minister William Hague, Venezuelan authorities have confirmed that Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi has not fled to Venezuela. They also expressed their hopes for a “peaceful” resolution to the protest situation in Libya.

Maduro said he hopes the Libyan people “find, in exercising their sovereignty, a peaceful solution to their difficulties, one that preserves the integrity of the people and the Libyan nation, without the interference of imperialism, whose interests in the region have been affected in recent times.”

In response to news reports citing Hague’s “unconfirmed” reports, the Venezuelan Embassy in London released a statement yesterday saying, “Al Jazeera and Associated Press have continually published the statements by Venezuelan authorities. To those British media outlets which published the statement made by Willliam Hague, the Venezuelan Embassy requests that they would equally make clear about the mistaken aspect of such statement.”

[http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6016]

See what happens when one’s guv and media is controlled by zionist Jews.

]]>By: 3bancanhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81568
Fri, 25 Feb 2011 04:04:20 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81568“While we’re at it, we could relocate Israel – the entire country and population – to the Texas panhandle”
I think that’s an excellent idea. I think the Palestinians and the olives should remain their homeland, though.
As to the “revolutions” in the Arab world: My hunch is we’ll see only a change of the polical elites – the home-made old despots are going out and a foreign-made – mostly US and UK bred – fluent English speaking “democrats” are coming in – the way it happened in Eastern Europe and in the USSR. The youth will have “new opportunities” (as in a western-style democracy change through “revolution” is unthinkable, “undemocratic”), eg joining – as mercenaries – the Nato forces in the genocidal round-the-globe “wars on terror” and “peace building”, especially in Africa and Asia.
[http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m75299&hd=&size=1&l=e]
]]>By: catguy00http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81567
Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:30:19 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81567Looks like Dissident Voice is even divided on this one.
]]>By: Deadbeathttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81566
Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:27:05 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81566One thing is for sure is that I don’t trust the mainstream media nor do I trust the Zionist Left for any information as well. Castro is revered in Africa having supported the anti-colonial movements there for decades so I’ll put my faith in Castro’s analysis of the situation.
]]>By: 3bancanhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81559
Fri, 25 Feb 2011 01:21:55 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81559“While we’re at it, we could relocate Israel – the entire country and population – to the Texas panhandle”
I think that’s an excellent idea. I think the Palestinians and the olives should remain their homeland, though.
As to the “revolutions” in the Arab world: My hunch is we’ll see only a change of the polical elites – the home-made old despots are going out and a foreign-made – mostly US and UK bred – fluent English speaking “democrats” are coming in – the way it happened in Eastern Europe and in the USSR. The youth will have “new opportunities” (as in a western-style democracy change through “revolution” is unthinkable, “undemocratic”), eg joining – as mercenaries – the Nato forces in the genocidal round-the-globe “wars on terror” and “peace building”, especially in Africa and Asia.http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m75299&hd=&size=1&l=e
]]>By: shabnamhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81555
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:39:20 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81555Majority of the ‘progressives’ are silent on Libya. Most of them have jointed the White House and are spreading propaganda against Gaddafi. I don’t trust their information because it may very well be FAKE repetition of CIA/mossad propaganda to bring Gaddafi down. I never witness so much boot licking by the ‘progressives’ in my life. It is disgusting and certainly we never forget these traitors.

Most of these protesters speak English with NO ACCENT, like Green stooges. Majority of their spokesperson and ‘leaders’ are NED trained where their activities are funded by the /western intelligent agencies. These agents initiate the ‘protest’ in the targeted country, except cases such as Bahrain or Yemen which is indigenous. The protests in Tunisia and Egypt showed the involvement of NED agents as initiators where later joined by other protestors, especially in the case of Egypt. No one denies the facts that these people have legitimate grievances, but so American people. At the end what Egypt arrived at, was a military coup aligned with US imperialism/Zionism interest. It remains to be seen how these changes affect the people’s situation in these countries.

Sara Flounders in “Libya and Imperialism” writes:

{What is the character of the opposition to the Gadhafi regime, which reportedly now controls the eastern city of Benghazi? What is the risk of imperialist military intervention, which poses the gravest danger for the people of the entire region?

Libya is not like Egypt. Its leader, Moammar al-Gadhafi, has not been an imperialist puppet like Hosni Mubarak. For many years, Gadhafi was allied to countries and movements fighting imperialism. On taking power in 1969 through a military coup, he nationalized Libya’s oil and used much of that money to develop the Libyan economy. Conditions of life improved dramatically for the people. For that, the imperialists were determined to grind Libya down.
After the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 and leveled much of Baghdad with a bombing campaign that the Pentagon exultantly called “shock and awe,” Gadhafi tried to ward off further threatened aggression on Libya by making big political and economic concessions to the imperialists. He opened the economy to foreign banks and corporations; he agreed to IMF demands for “structural adjustment,” privatizing many state-owned enterprises and cutting state subsidies on necessities like food and fuel.

it is important for progressives to know that many of the people being promoted in the West as leaders of the opposition are long-time agents of imperialism. The BBC on Feb. 22 showed footage of crowds in Benghazi pulling down the green flag of the republic and replacing it with the flag of the overthrown monarch King Idris – who had been a puppet of U.S. and British imperialism. The Western media are basing a great deal of their reporting on supposed facts provided by the exile group National Front for the Salvation of Libya, which was trained and financed by the U.S. CIA. Google the front’s name plus CIA and you will find hundreds of references.

{http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23364}

]]>By: maryhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81554
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 23:18:08 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81554Ha! This Barber character has just been on BBC Newsnight still defending Gaddafi as a ‘reformer’!!

He has just resigned from a charitable fund which Saif, the playboy son of Gaddafi, set up at the London School of Economics. Saif also has a £10m mansion in Hampstead in Millionaires’ Row as the road is referred to.

{http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/21/saif-al-islam-gaddafi}

Noted here in the LSE student newspaper with some more names.
{http://thebeaveronline.co.uk/2010/01/12/gaddafi-gives-1-5mil-to-lse/}

]]>By: Rehmathttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81553
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:04:21 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81553It’s not one’s name – it’s how much one touches Jewisj Lobby’s feet. Qaddafi refuses to do that – therefore, like Chavez, Castro and Ahmadinejad – he is a terrorist (Ooops! I mean, an ‘anti-Semite’).

Americans are never good on spelling or knowing the names of foreigners, with the exception of Israelis. Remember, Duby Bush could remember the capital city of Pakistan – the very country which has been ruled by US embassy since 1960s.

]]>By: MichaelKennyhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81531
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:46:52 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81531As I mentioned, I have read the whole article (on Counterpunch, to be precise). Practical question: how could NATO attack Lybia? Its neighbours on either side, Tunisia and Egypt, are in turmoil, so no land invasion. From the sea? Remember Bush the Father’s fiasco in Somalia! Indeed, remember the Bay of Pigs and the horrendous casualties of D-Day. From the air? A handful of paras go in, seize an airport and the rest fly in planeload after planeload. You can’t invade a country with such small numbers! And you have to seize a port very quickly to keep them supplied. Stalingrad proves that. Thus, even if NATO wanted to invade, there’s no practical way it could do so! And that it to say nothing of the wholly counter-productive nature of such an invasion! Shabnam, do you really think Fidel is that stupid?
]]>By: shabnamhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81526
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 15:24:06 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81526(The idea that NATO is preparing to invade Libya is laughable.)

Your selective way of reading is LAUGHABLE. Did you notice the following lines?

“United States is totally unconcerned about peace in Libya and will not hesitate to give NATO the order to invade that rich country, possibly in a matter of hours or a few days. . . }

Did you notice few dots at the end (…)

This means more words were not printed. Those words might have given a ‘condition’ that gives US to act. As long as we don’t have the rest of the paragraph to call “the article is so silly” is silly.

Apparently you are ignorant about the dark history of the United States thus you view the invasion and occupation of Libya by US/ NATO or NED agents impossible.
According to the western media, East of the country is under control of the‘protesters’ who are speaking ENGLISH with no ascent holding to their arms and ammunition where they claim have taken from the ‘army’ and are marching toward the capital to ‘liberate’ the rest of the Libya.
Give me a break.

]]>By: MichaelKennyhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81521
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:33:28 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81521The idea that NATO is preparing to invade Libya is laughable. I read this article on another site a few days ago (why not just a link here?). Indeed, the article is so silly that I refuse to beleive that Fidel actually wrote such nonsense. In addition, Cuba’s relationship with Europe is extremely good. Nobody in Cuba thus has any interest in insulting Europe by making such childish claims. I therefore regard the article as a forgery emanating from the usual “we hate Europe” crowd in the US.
]]>By: shabnamhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2011/02/when-in-doubt-park-em/#comment-81519
Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:33:28 +0000http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=29805#comment-81519Fidel Castro has issued the following psot:

In December of 1951, Libya became the first African country to attain its independence after World War II, during which its territory was the scene of significant battles between German and British troops, bringing fame to Generals Erwin Rommel and Bernard. L Montgomery.

Total desert covers 95% of its territory. Technology made it possible to find significant fields of excellent quality light oil, currently providing 1.8 million barrels per day, and abundant natural gas deposits. Such wealth allowed it to achieve a life expectancy of close to 75 years and the highest per capita income in Africa. Its harsh desert is located above an enormous lake of fossil water, equivalent to more than three times the land surface of Cuba, which has made it possible to construct a broad network of fresh water pipes which extends throughout the country. . . .

What is absolutely clear to me is that the government of the United States is totally unconcerned about peace in Libya and will not hesitate to give NATO the order to invade that rich country, possibly in a matter of hours or a few days. . .

An honest person will always be against any injustice committed against any nation of the world, and the worst injustice, at this moment, would be to remain silent in the face of the crime that NATO is preparing to commit against the Libyan people.

The chief of that militarist organization is being urged to do so. This must be condemned!