The level of gameplay is higher than ever. Serral now is more skilled then Life, MVP or Innovation were at their peak.

But some would argue that is is an unfair comparison since any sport is typically at a higher level now then it was previously. For instance, even though Messi is more skilled compared to Maradona, Maradona dominated his time period more than Messi ever will.

So even if we compare players to their own time time I would say Serral dominates more than Life, MVP or Innovation did. Did any of those player reach and hold peak skill as long as Serral has done?

Also people overestimate the GSL. GSL vs the World had a foreigner vs foreigner final so being the best in Korea does not mean as much now when foreigners have catched up.

Serral dominates both WCS and most tournaments with koreans, which is more than what Maru or any other korean does.

If GSL is so overestimated why are there so few foreigners in the open tournaments like IEM? Why no foreigner won WESG where the starting ratio is so shifted towards foreigners it's not even funny? Closest was Serral and yet he did not. If there are so many KOreans in the top and at the same time saying GSL is overrated ... explain why are foreigners not competing in the other tournaments properly? Asus ROG?

Katowice had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?Asus ROG had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?WESG is the exception because you cannot have there 6 Koreans but hey out of 3 Koreans 2 made it to the RO4

One GSL vs TW makes the GSL overrated? Seriously? The last Blizzcon with Serral winning have seen what ratio? 2:6

SO if out of the top 8 players 6 are Koreans how can GSL victory be overrated when you have to beat 6 of the top 8 players to get it? Explain this to me, please.

Edit> Even Serral himself said foreigners were lucky, FYI.

You guys do indeed overestimate GSL judging by all the times I read that winning a WCS is barely comparable to reaching a ro16 in Code S.

This doesn't mean that foreigners are better than koreans, GSL vs The World was an exception hence why Serral said they were lucky. Let's be clear, foreigners were lucky to outperform koreans but they are meant to be competitive nowadays; according to your ideas, this would sound "lucky to steal some map from the ubeatable korean gods, that's definitely not the case.

Serral is the best player in the world and ZvZ is not a matchup for koreans anymore(Elazer beating Dark wasn't really that unthinkable) but, apart from that, you should expect to see koreans beat foreigners more often than not; the variance is high from tournament to tournament, sometimes koreans dominate(Katowice), sometimes foreigners perform very well(GSL vs The World).

Let's make an exception. I've never said that. I specifically said that winning WCS is around RO8/4 level of Code S(depending on the current form of the players). So that "you guys", it's not me and I would appreciate if you would name the people who said that winning wcs is a RO16 Code S. That's why I ignore you 99 % of the time, because you write ... these things.

On September 20 2019 05:29 Shuffleblade wrote:

On September 20 2019 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:

On September 19 2019 23:14 MockHamill wrote:[quote]

The level of gameplay is higher than ever. Serral now is more skilled then Life, MVP or Innovation were at their peak.

But some would argue that is is an unfair comparison since any sport is typically at a higher level now then it was previously. For instance, even though Messi is more skilled compared to Maradona, Maradona dominated his time period more than Messi ever will.

So even if we compare players to their own time time I would say Serral dominates more than Life, MVP or Innovation did. Did any of those player reach and hold peak skill as long as Serral has done?

Also people overestimate the GSL. GSL vs the World had a foreigner vs foreigner final so being the best in Korea does not mean as much now when foreigners have catched up.

Serral dominates both WCS and most tournaments with koreans, which is more than what Maru or any other korean does.

If GSL is so overestimated why are there so few foreigners in the open tournaments like IEM? Why no foreigner won WESG where the starting ratio is so shifted towards foreigners it's not even funny? Closest was Serral and yet he did not. If there are so many KOreans in the top and at the same time saying GSL is overrated ... explain why are foreigners not competing in the other tournaments properly? Asus ROG?

Katowice had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?Asus ROG had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?WESG is the exception because you cannot have there 6 Koreans but hey out of 3 Koreans 2 made it to the RO4

One GSL vs TW makes the GSL overrated? Seriously? The last Blizzcon with Serral winning have seen what ratio? 2:6

SO if out of the top 8 players 6 are Koreans how can GSL victory be overrated when you have to beat 6 of the top 8 players to get it? Explain this to me, please.

Edit> Even Serral himself said foreigners were lucky, FYI.

You make great points here, it really helps to broaden the view.

GSL is clearly still the hardest tournament since that is were most of the best players in the world compete. Your statistics also makes that clear. I don't believe Serral is close to GOAT but if we are discussing dominating streak I don't think the lack of a pure starleague championship should disqualify Serral from that discussion.

Regarding the "era" argument and how no one could ever get GOAT based on results of the modern era because it is less competetive. That is just pure bullshit, the game is not dead or even close to it. It might not have as many active players as it did during its peak but that doesn't mean winning is easy. "winning is easy nowadays I could probably win GSL if I tried" is that seriously what some of you are thinking? That winning is easy in this era?

The issue I have is the domination thing. Serral isn't dominating the Koreans, he's not winning 3:0, he's not the clear favorite when facing the top vZ players(e.g. Stats, soO, Innovation, Maru). He's a favorite against Koreans who are not in the top shape. And I don't think there's a person who's stating Serral isn't that good to be in the top4 players of the world. But that's no domination! If we have a top4 player facing anyone below him he's the favorite and the lower the other player is the bigger the favorite.

Serral is dominating WCS. That's how domination looks, the closest last open tourney(except the GSLvTW) looking like this was WESG and that's because how the open spots are selected. He didn't even dominate the Katowice group, the map score was 9:5 IIRC, ROG play off is similar thing.

Serral dominates your favorite koreans easy pz for one year.

GSL is actually not the hardest anymore. It is B tier with the better players. WCS is A tier since that's why the goat and best player in the world is at. Too bad we won't see more Korean vs Serral on a constantly bases.

It's safer and easier to win money for koreans to say in GSL rather than risk losing and facing Serral early in WCS

can't tell if you are trolling or not

The current Best player in the world plays in WCS. agree?

yeah but then everything else you said sounds like trolling lol

Nah, It's just an unpopular opinion. But it's starting to be proven correctly as shown in GSL vs World.

Tier A WCS came out on top. GSL winners couldn't even get out of the RO16.

Blizzcon will once again show and proof that Tier 2 GSL just can't hang with the big boys of WCS

The level of gameplay is higher than ever. Serral now is more skilled then Life, MVP or Innovation were at their peak.

But some would argue that is is an unfair comparison since any sport is typically at a higher level now then it was previously. For instance, even though Messi is more skilled compared to Maradona, Maradona dominated his time period more than Messi ever will.

So even if we compare players to their own time time I would say Serral dominates more than Life, MVP or Innovation did. Did any of those player reach and hold peak skill as long as Serral has done?

Also people overestimate the GSL. GSL vs the World had a foreigner vs foreigner final so being the best in Korea does not mean as much now when foreigners have catched up.

Serral dominates both WCS and most tournaments with koreans, which is more than what Maru or any other korean does.

If GSL is so overestimated why are there so few foreigners in the open tournaments like IEM? Why no foreigner won WESG where the starting ratio is so shifted towards foreigners it's not even funny? Closest was Serral and yet he did not. If there are so many KOreans in the top and at the same time saying GSL is overrated ... explain why are foreigners not competing in the other tournaments properly? Asus ROG?

Katowice had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?Asus ROG had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?WESG is the exception because you cannot have there 6 Koreans but hey out of 3 Koreans 2 made it to the RO4

One GSL vs TW makes the GSL overrated? Seriously? The last Blizzcon with Serral winning have seen what ratio? 2:6

SO if out of the top 8 players 6 are Koreans how can GSL victory be overrated when you have to beat 6 of the top 8 players to get it? Explain this to me, please.

Edit> Even Serral himself said foreigners were lucky, FYI.

You guys do indeed overestimate GSL judging by all the times I read that winning a WCS is barely comparable to reaching a ro16 in Code S.

This doesn't mean that foreigners are better than koreans, GSL vs The World was an exception hence why Serral said they were lucky. Let's be clear, foreigners were lucky to outperform koreans but they are meant to be competitive nowadays; according to your ideas, this would sound "lucky to steal some map from the ubeatable korean gods, that's definitely not the case.

Serral is the best player in the world and ZvZ is not a matchup for koreans anymore(Elazer beating Dark wasn't really that unthinkable) but, apart from that, you should expect to see koreans beat foreigners more often than not; the variance is high from tournament to tournament, sometimes koreans dominate(Katowice), sometimes foreigners perform very well(GSL vs The World).

Let's make an exception. I've never said that. I specifically said that winning WCS is around RO8/4 level of Code S(depending on the current form of the players). So that "you guys", it's not me and I would appreciate if you would name the people who said that winning wcs is a RO16 Code S. That's why I ignore you 99 % of the time, because you write ... these things.

On September 20 2019 05:29 Shuffleblade wrote:

On September 20 2019 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:

On September 19 2019 23:14 MockHamill wrote:[quote]

The level of gameplay is higher than ever. Serral now is more skilled then Life, MVP or Innovation were at their peak.

But some would argue that is is an unfair comparison since any sport is typically at a higher level now then it was previously. For instance, even though Messi is more skilled compared to Maradona, Maradona dominated his time period more than Messi ever will.

So even if we compare players to their own time time I would say Serral dominates more than Life, MVP or Innovation did. Did any of those player reach and hold peak skill as long as Serral has done?

Also people overestimate the GSL. GSL vs the World had a foreigner vs foreigner final so being the best in Korea does not mean as much now when foreigners have catched up.

Serral dominates both WCS and most tournaments with koreans, which is more than what Maru or any other korean does.

If GSL is so overestimated why are there so few foreigners in the open tournaments like IEM? Why no foreigner won WESG where the starting ratio is so shifted towards foreigners it's not even funny? Closest was Serral and yet he did not. If there are so many KOreans in the top and at the same time saying GSL is overrated ... explain why are foreigners not competing in the other tournaments properly? Asus ROG?

Katowice had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?Asus ROG had what, 2:6 ratio in the RO8?WESG is the exception because you cannot have there 6 Koreans but hey out of 3 Koreans 2 made it to the RO4

One GSL vs TW makes the GSL overrated? Seriously? The last Blizzcon with Serral winning have seen what ratio? 2:6

SO if out of the top 8 players 6 are Koreans how can GSL victory be overrated when you have to beat 6 of the top 8 players to get it? Explain this to me, please.

Edit> Even Serral himself said foreigners were lucky, FYI.

You make great points here, it really helps to broaden the view.

GSL is clearly still the hardest tournament since that is were most of the best players in the world compete. Your statistics also makes that clear. I don't believe Serral is close to GOAT but if we are discussing dominating streak I don't think the lack of a pure starleague championship should disqualify Serral from that discussion.

Regarding the "era" argument and how no one could ever get GOAT based on results of the modern era because it is less competetive. That is just pure bullshit, the game is not dead or even close to it. It might not have as many active players as it did during its peak but that doesn't mean winning is easy. "winning is easy nowadays I could probably win GSL if I tried" is that seriously what some of you are thinking? That winning is easy in this era?

The issue I have is the domination thing. Serral isn't dominating the Koreans, he's not winning 3:0, he's not the clear favorite when facing the top vZ players(e.g. Stats, soO, Innovation, Maru). He's a favorite against Koreans who are not in the top shape. And I don't think there's a person who's stating Serral isn't that good to be in the top4 players of the world. But that's no domination! If we have a top4 player facing anyone below him he's the favorite and the lower the other player is the bigger the favorite.

Serral is dominating WCS. That's how domination looks, the closest last open tourney(except the GSLvTW) looking like this was WESG and that's because how the open spots are selected. He didn't even dominate the Katowice group, the map score was 9:5 IIRC, ROG play off is similar thing.

Serral dominates your favorite koreans easy pz for one year.

GSL is actually not the hardest anymore. It is B tier with the better players. WCS is A tier since that's why the goat and best player in the world is at. Too bad we won't see more Korean vs Serral on a constantly bases.

It's safer and easier to win money for koreans to say in GSL rather than risk losing and facing Serral early in WCS

can't tell if you are trolling or not

The current Best player in the world plays in WCS. agree?

yeah but then everything else you said sounds like trolling lol

Nah, It's just an unpopular opinion. But it's starting to be proven correctly as shown in GSL vs World.

Tier A WCS came out on top. GSL winners couldn't even get out of the RO16.

Blizzcon will once again show and proof that Tier 2 GSL just can't hang with the big boys of WCS

On October 06 2019 22:21 Xain0n wrote:There will be the pre-BlizzCon Power Ranking.Expect Rogue to be placed significantly higher; on the other hand, do you really think Dark is more likely to win BlizzCon than Serral?

Dark is not good at ZvZ while Rogue is such monster at one moment, but looked surprisingly weaker after that. It depends on how they survive against some players in the route to face Serral in ro.8/semifinal/final.

If Dark does not face some Zerg players like Rogue, Reynor or even Elazer, certainly he is okay.

On October 06 2019 22:21 Xain0n wrote:There will be the pre-BlizzCon Power Ranking.Expect Rogue to be placed significantly higher; on the other hand, do you really think Dark is more likely to win BlizzCon than Serral?

Dark is not good at ZvZ while Rogue is such monster at one moment, but looked surprisingly weaker after that. It depends on how they survive against some players in the route to face Serral in ro.8/semifinal/final.

If Dark does not face some Zerg players like Rogue, Reynor or even Elazer, certainly he is okay.

Dark's threats are Serral, Maru, Rogue, if he beats them when they play then he will win the tournament. I don't see a Terran beside Maru or a Protoss player beating Dark in a Bo5. Talking about Elazer and Reynor, sure they can take game off of him but i believe Dark will put the most practice in ZvZ coz that's his weakness.

My picks of tournament contenders will be Rogue, Stats, Serral, Maru and Dark. I dont believe in Trap's PvZ. Since there will be 2 Terran at max, if Maru somehow dodge Korean Protosses, he will have the highest chance of winning the whole thing, his TvZ is just unbeatable.

On October 06 2019 22:21 Xain0n wrote:There will be the pre-BlizzCon Power Ranking.Expect Rogue to be placed significantly higher; on the other hand, do you really think Dark is more likely to win BlizzCon than Serral?

Dark is not good at ZvZ while Rogue is such monster at one moment, but looked surprisingly weaker after that. It depends on how they survive against some players in the route to face Serral in ro.8/semifinal/final.

If Dark does not face some Zerg players like Rogue, Reynor or even Elazer, certainly he is okay.

Dark's threats are Serral, Maru, Rogue, if he beats them when they play then he will win the tournament. I don't see a Terran beside Maru or a Protoss player beating Dark in a Bo5. Talking about Elazer and Reynor, sure they can take game off of him but i believe Dark will put the most practice in ZvZ coz that's his weakness.

My picks of tournament contenders will be Rogue, Stats, Serral, Maru and Dark. I dont believe in Trap's PvZ. Since there will be 2 Terran at max, if Maru somehow dodge Korean Protosses, he will have the highest chance of winning the whole thing, his TvZ is just unbeatable.

Maru's TvZ just unbeatable after practicing to beat Dark and lost to the said player. Uhm

I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.

On October 06 2019 22:21 Xain0n wrote:There will be the pre-BlizzCon Power Ranking.Expect Rogue to be placed significantly higher; on the other hand, do you really think Dark is more likely to win BlizzCon than Serral?

Dark is not good at ZvZ while Rogue is such monster at one moment, but looked surprisingly weaker after that. It depends on how they survive against some players in the route to face Serral in ro.8/semifinal/final.

If Dark does not face some Zerg players like Rogue, Reynor or even Elazer, certainly he is okay.

Dark's threats are Serral, Maru, Rogue, if he beats them when they play then he will win the tournament. I don't see a Terran beside Maru or a Protoss player beating Dark in a Bo5. Talking about Elazer and Reynor, sure they can take game off of him but i believe Dark will put the most practice in ZvZ coz that's his weakness.

My picks of tournament contenders will be Rogue, Stats, Serral, Maru and Dark. I dont believe in Trap's PvZ. Since there will be 2 Terran at max, if Maru somehow dodge Korean Protosses, he will have the highest chance of winning the whole thing, his TvZ is just unbeatable.

Maru's TvZ just unbeatable after practicing to beat Dark and lost to the said player. Uhm