My guesses as to why some people view the SM fandom in a negative light: - The toxicity that exists between 90's Anime and Crystal Fans might scare off outsiders - Anime fandoms tend to be viewed badly in general, due to anime's reputation - People might not like/agree with the source material, leading them to discriminate against fans - Maybe they've just been exposed to the wrong kinds of people - From my personal experience, people tend to be afraid of Mahou Shoujo fandoms in general - There are always a few bad apples in the bunch, no matter what fandom it is - Maybe the "Bad Fans" are more of a very vocal minority??

I think the bad reputation comes from the general lack of unity --for example, "I have my Sailor Moon English dub; I don't care if Italians didn't get their dub or if DVDs in Latin America are overpriced," --as well as the fact that when people disagree, they do not do it politely. For example, I, personally, dislike PGSM, but I will not make PGSM fans feel bad for liking PGSM.

I've been hearing some things liately about how some people in the fandom tend to give of the image that SM doesn't have a very good fanbase...

Anyone mind explaining about said bad fans? Most of the ones I've seen are pretty kind and respective... We can't be considered THAT bad, right?

Unfortunately, the fandom is pretty disgusting. I'll be replying to quotes here but I'll also write up my own opinion after that. But first and foremost, if you're only seeing kind and respectful fans, then you're not looking in the right places haha. Well, I guess technically you ARE looking in the right places -- but not if you truly want to see the fandom for what it is.

kikyo hino wrote:

No. If you want a bad fandom try Steven Universe.

Agreed. I love the show and I stay far away from the fandom. I was also a brony for a short while and the fans ruined that for me as well.

ShinyVoir wrote:

My guesses as to why some people view the SM fandom in a negative light: - The toxicity that exists between 90's Anime and Crystal Fans might scare off outsiders - Anime fandoms tend to be viewed badly in general, due to anime's reputation - People might not like/agree with the source material, leading them to discriminate against fans - Maybe they've just been exposed to the wrong kinds of people - From my personal experience, people tend to be afraid of Mahou Shoujo fandoms in general - There are always a few bad apples in the bunch, no matter what fandom it is - Maybe the "Bad Fans" are more of a very vocal minority??

I don't know. I'm tired. Now's not the time for critical thinking.

These are all very good reasons, mostly the first one though (but that's just the latest reason).

Clow wrote:

I think the bad reputation comes from the general lack of unity --for example, "I have my Sailor Moon English dub; I don't care if Italians didn't get their dub or if DVDs in Latin America are overpriced," --as well as the fact that when people disagree, they do not do it politely. For example, I, personally, dislike PGSM, but I will not make PGSM fans feel bad for liking PGSM.

Frankly, I don't really care if certain countries don't get their own dub but that's mostly because I think we should all just watch the shows in Japanese. And I'm glad you won't chastise PGSM fans for liking PGSM. We honestly get a lot of people bashing Crystal fans for liking Crystal and consequently a lot of people hating on people who don't like Crystal, so we're a pretty volatile fandom. It's what happens when we have so many different versions of the story to enjoy.

Anyway...

We have never been a particularly great fandom. We've had large groups like SOS campaigning for the return of the show to the USA, but they ended up doing more harm than good and the site was run by a bunch of jerks who made up their own information, gave themselves too much credit for things, etc. I believe some people from SOS are still contributing to the fandom under that Sailor Moon Uncovered site, or Sailor Moon...God I don't even remember the name, but it's a recent Sailor Moon news site/fan site that is basically SOS 2.0, they focus entirely on the English dub and they give themselves a lot of credit for things that aren't because of them.

This forum itself has seen a lot of ups and downs which also reflects the fandom. I remember the whole drama with Elly/Miss Dream and how awful some people here were acting. We had an influx of users who would insist that only they contribute "quality" posts while demeaning other people, putting them down, etc. Then when the old Genvid owners/admins got the forums back, people here starting complaining about them too! I think this a problem with this specific board and not the fandom in general, though.

The fandom itself has always been a divided one...

1) Dub vs. Sub -- Even nowadays, some people consider it sacrilege to say you liked the DiC dub. We all know it's heavily flawed but I still have fond memories of the DiC dub regardless of preferring the show in Japanese. Even now, you can't say anything nice about the 90s English dub without being called a bigot or whatever.

3) PGSM, yes or no -- A lot of people love PGSM nowadays but I remember back when it was airing, a lot of Sailor Moon fans were turned off by it and they were quite vocal about their distaste for it.

4) Crystal -- This is the big one nowadays. We still have hate blogs dedicated to the show (the Sailor Moon Crystal Failures Tumblr is still sadly plodding along with its barrage of hate and criticisms, most of them unwarranted). It's STILL bad. If you go on the Crystal forums, you see people bashing the show every chance they get, even if the conversation isn't really related to the quality of Crystal. It's created an extremely toxic environment.

Basically, what Clow said, though I don't necessarily agree about the international part. It's still true that we're a very divided fandom, though. Back in the late 90s, you would be chased out of any forum or chatroom for using the term "Sailor Scouts" or the name "Serena" in reference to Usagi.

We are also an extremely ungrateful fandom. A lot of people love to hate on Takeuchi and blame her for licensing issues that mostly have to do with unrelated issues regarding their own country.

This is why I made a Tumblr call MissDramu, since there was toxicity of El in this forums which had us to leave her server.

Then there are cosplayers of Sailor Moon/Usagi claiming that every other cosplayer is ripping her off, which I replied with the badly done threats in my Sailor Moon sprite comic, TGTN. Now there's a cauldron thread of bashing Naoko.

Yes, I experience all the drama. But in the end of the day, we admire a 90s manga that brought us all together by one's girl wishes to fight for love and justice. I guess that's why the fandom stays so long.

Based on the many replies this thread has gotten, I would like to rephrase what I said:

Sailor Moon fans appear not to have empathy for one another.

Like I said, I really, really dislike PGSM; as a matter of fact, I think nobody on Earth dislikes PGSM more than I do. That being said, if I know someone who enjoys PGSM, why would I ruin their fun or make them feel bad for liking the show? The same concept of empathy applies to fans who:

(1) grew up with the DIC dub and would love a DVD-BD release with the DIC dub, (2) want to buy a DVD but cannot do it because the DVDs are overpriced or nonexistent (the issue with Brazil and Latin America), (3) want a new dub much like the one that North America got.

You may find the DIC dub despicable, but, hey, why not to support or show empathy to those fans who want an official release with the DIC dub?

You live in North America and you are enjoying your new English dub, so, hey, why not to support the fans who live in other countries and also would love a new dub of their favorite show?

You can purchase a Sailor Moon DVD, that's awesome, but hey, did you know that there are fans who live in different countries and would love to purchase a Sailor Moon DVD, but cannot do so because the DVDs are overpriced or did not get an official release//or were discontinued?

Okay, you only like the Japanese version, but do you have to deprive others from enjoying their favorite show in a language other than Japanese?

Overall, it seems to me that expressing empathy is a big problem in the community (I mean the community as a whole; not that of this forum).

_________________Can-do!

Last edited by Clow on Wed May 10, 2017 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Do the guys who say this know we had a dub before the US, and of better quality too?

Note that Clow only said that in quotes, not what he said himself.

John wrote:

4) Crystal -- This is the big one nowadays. We still have hate blogs dedicated to the show (the Sailor Moon Crystal Failures Tumblr is still sadly plodding along with its barrage of hate and criticisms, most of them unwarranted). It's STILL bad. If you go on the Crystal forums, you see people bashing the show every chance they get, even if the conversation isn't really related to the quality of Crystal. It's created an extremely toxic environment.

Do the guys who say this know we had a dub before the US, and of better quality too?

Note that Clow only said that in quotes, not what he said himself.

John wrote:

4) Crystal -- This is the big one nowadays. We still have hate blogs dedicated to the show (the Sailor Moon Crystal Failures Tumblr is still sadly plodding along with its barrage of hate and criticisms, most of them unwarranted). It's STILL bad. If you go on the Crystal forums, you see people bashing the show every chance they get, even if the conversation isn't really related to the quality of Crystal. It's created an extremely toxic environment.

Lemme add "4.1" - S1/2 vs S3.

Oh God you're right, we now have a splintered Crystal fanbase that argues between the first 26 episodes and the next season. xD

Clow,

I agree with you and I recognize that I have this issue as well. It's hard to show a lot of empathy when people are being disrespectful, though.

At the end of the day we're all SM fans in one way or another and that's great, but for a franchise that's been around for over 20 years, we sometimes get elitist in our opinions and we sometimes place the blame where it doesn't belong. I think I'm doing this right now in another thread in which people are getting upset about Sailor Moon overseas. I still think, though, that it's more of a response to HOW these people phrase their issues rather than the issues themselves. (Basically, blaming everything on Naoko is not a great way to get me, personally, to feel empathy.)

Wow! That's insane.I personally have never seen this kind of hostility before, the thread in the forum right now is more or less the worst I've even seen. Honestly with all that going on right now is deeply concerning to me how the fans seem to be so caught up into their fandoms, and then entrench themselves into camps, just to fight. What the actual smeg?I'm a guy that lives and let lives; I do love Crystal over the 90s anime but I don't hate on people who love the 90s over Crystal. I've never seen PGSM so i can't form an opinion on it, therefore I don't judge anyone one way or another, and the same goes for the manga.

I can fully understand how people might come to love Sailor Moon for whatever reason, after all that reason is why we are all here, but I can't understand why anyone would want to attack any other fan because of that reason.That's the key word here - want.

The only thing I see is that some people may disagree on certain things like some people like the original more than PGSM or PGSM over the manga. Things like that but I really wouldn't say they are "bad things". I'll admit it, I do say a lot of things on here as a joke and I do not even take 100% of myself seriously on here but this I am serious about. SM is a really good fanbase.

_________________Credit to Prince Rose for adding the borderline to the sig.

I was also a brony for a short while and the fans ruined that for me as well.

You'll always be a part of the club to me.

LMAO! I appreciate that -- no, really, I do.

At the same time, if it's any consolation, the Internet fans didn't do anything -- it was Bronycon that ruined it for me. I went to Bronycon 2013 in Baltimore and I was very excited for that experience, but the fans I encountered there were so disturbing, it completely reversed my love for the show. Sad but true. Maybe one day I'll get into it again.

At the same time, if it's any consolation, the Internet fans didn't do anything -- it was Bronycon that ruined it for me. I went to Bronycon 2013 in Baltimore and I was very excited for that experience, but the fans I encountered there were so disturbing, it completely reversed my love for the show. Sad but true.

I don't let the fans ruin any show what ever issues fans are involved in is their own not mine and that's any fandom, I consider myself casual brony I guess

I second this myself although I'm not a brony myself I'm not afraid to voice my opinion nor am I afraid to say I love Sailor Moon (90s anime is my all time favorite anime mainly because its my first anime) but I think Sailor Moons Fandom (moonies) are the best fans in the world especially everyone on this forum we're all one big dysfunctional family and Mara's the grouchy grandfather

What frustrates me about the fandom is how some younger members of it are so eager to point sexism and "heteronormativity" in a franchise created in the 90s by people from a country with a really tradionalist society.My only explanation to this is that they want to see in Sailor Moon what they see in Steven Universe.They whine about how Haruka stealed a kiss from Usagi, like she grabbed her and didn't let her go. Whine about how Usagi always asks for Mamoru's help, because that makes her "less than feminist", when she was never supposed to be one.And as Clow said, there are people who get triggered whenever someone dares to criticize Naoko for things she has done, because "without her there would be no SM". While the very same people criticize Toei in every opportunity they get, like Toei wasn't as important as Naoko in making SM into the multi-billion dollar franchise it is today.

What frustrates me about the fandom is how some younger members of it are so eager to point sexism and "heteronormativity" in a franchise created in the 90s by people from a country with a really tradionalist society.

I agree. The college millennials need to stop whining about this crap and just calm down and enjoy a good TV show.

Sailor Moon fandom isn't as bad as other fandoms like GamerGate and American comics with all the problems they have with sexual harassment and authors getting death threats from fandom. The biggest issue is an inability to disagree in a respectful manner and we're all grumpy 30 year something adults taking a children's cartoon for five year old little girls too seriously.