Wednesday, September 20, 2006

A Few Questions for the Afternoon

I have a few questions for the afternoon, based around today's news. Feel free to throw in your opinion via the Comments section, and don't feel pressure to answer all of them.

1. Does it matter if the Tigers, specifically, make the playoffs as a division winner or Wild Card? I know it affects their ALDS pairing, but at this point, isn't just making the postseason huge for Detroit? Or did a season as successful as this one raise expectations beyond "just making the playoffs?"

(My take: Given the Tigers' recent history, to demand anything more than the postseason -- even with the success they've had this year -- is ridiculous.)

2. If Trevor Hoffman isn't the NL Cy Young, then who is?

(My take: No, seriously -- who else is struggling to come up with an answer here?)

3. If Justin Morneau isn't the AL MVP, then who is?

(My take: I could say who I think SHOULD win -- Frank Thomas -- but also who I think WILL win -- Derek Jeter.)

4. If you could have your pick of any backup NFL QB to be your *starting* QB right now, who would it be?

(My take: I said "right now" precisely so you really couldn't take Vince Young, unless you REALLY want VY starting in Week 3. I'd have to go with Matt Schaub.)

5. Who would you nominate as your most amazing over-40 pro athlete? Let's stick with players from the ESPN Era (so no Blandas!)

(My take: This one is easy -- Julio Franco. Roger Clemens is an easy answer, but come on: Franco is 48! Or older!)

6. Would Emmitt Smith winning "Dancing with the Stars" be more impressive than winning Super Bowl 28 MVP?

(My take: Winning DWTS would be more impressive. Consider that in SB28, Emmitt was the best player on the field, while in DWTS, he's the classic fish-out-of-water. "Impressive" is all about expectations.)

1. It shouldn't matter. When two season ago you had 100+ losses, getting to the playoffs this quickly is enough.

2. Hoffman has a good a chance as anyone else you could put up. I may draw from a bag or something if I had a vote.

3. I would like it if Morneau got the MVP. I am also ok with Thomas, but I think Morneau is a better choice of those two. Jeter maybe should get it just for having to put up with A-Rods whiny ass?

4. My choice would depend on what my goals were. If I was just trying to win for one week, then yes probably Schaub or maybe Batch. If I am looking towards the future, then its either Young or Leinart.

5. Roger Clemens is amazing. Yes Franco is older, but Clemens at 42 (last season) quite possibly had one of his best and Most.Dominating.Seasons.Ever. Franco is amazing at his age, but he hasn't been dominate, last season Clemens was (World Series notwithstanding).

1. It depends on whether the Tigers believe they can sustain this level. If they return to 90 losses in two years, just making the playoffs ends up becoming a waste. However, if Detroit believes they can continue to improve and be a credible contender for the next several years, then yes, they should be happy making the playoffs.

2. No opinion.

3. I too support the Frank Thomas campaign.

4. Joey Harrington. He's game-tested, and I believe he's talented enough to start at the Pro level. I just can't shake the feeling that Detroit handled him poorly.

5. Julio Franco by a mile.

6. No. DWTS will end up having 1/10th the viewership as the Super Bowl did. And, of course, once the concept has been ground to a nub and cast aside, no one will remember it two years later.

1) The Tigers need to win the Central. Anything less would be an historic collapse, and lead to a postseason filled with too many questions from too many reporters about their inexperience.

2) Ugh. It's the NL - Who cares? Glavine? Penny? Arroyo? How about a "Pass", and pick 2 next year.

3) Jermaine Dye could make just as much of a case as Jeter or Morneau, but Dye & Jeter have too much talent around them to justify the whole "carrying the team" thing. Papi ain't making the playoffs (sadly), so he ain't making the discussion. Right now, it's Morneau's to lose (though Jeter will still win).

4) Why not someone like Josh McCown? He's not flashy, but he's put but big, big days in the past, and he's got plenty of experience.

5) Yeah, it's Franco. To still be playing (and stealing bases, no less) is ridiculous. He's twice my age, and I can't do either.

6) Not watching the show, can't comment effectively. Sorry, just not interested in ballroom dancing.

1. Detroit needs to get in. Their youth and lack of recent success forgives, IMO, the slide, but they need to seal their berth to OctoberBaseball Land.

2. Are you looking at W-L and drawing your decision from there?Carp - 2.79 ERA (1), WHIP 1.04 (1)Webb - 2.92 ERA (2), WHIP 1.14 (2)It is a bare cabinet for candidates and Hoffman will get votes, but I don't like giving a pitching award to someone who pitches 60 innings.

3. Pass. Jeter's going to win. It doesn't matter about Thomas, Morneau or Dye putting up numbers. Jeter is the Chosen One.

I think the Tigers making the playoffs considering how badly they've sucked for so long would be good enough for me if I were a Detroit fan, I mean at least they get to taste some postseason excitement.

Richard's answer about the Marlin with the most wins seems as good as any to me

For over 40 athlete, I initially thought Franco like everyone else because the dude looks in better shape than guys literaly half his age, and he can still play. But what about Martina Navritilova, I mean she is still playing competetive tennis and winning Grand Slams, albeit in doubles but still!

And man, Emmitt Smith looks damn good on DWTS. I don't know about him winning being more impressive than an MVP but as someone who dances, the guy can really move!

4. ok, so i'm obviously basing this on his fiesta bowl run and the fact that i went to the univeristy of oregon, but i still think joey harrington deserves another shot. he looked ok this pre-season and i dare any rookie QB to win with that lions team. he can't be any worse than aaron brooks, seriously.

5. even if i think that franco started his professional career when i was three years old, and i'm now thirty, it still doesn't beat clemens being able to dominate at his age.

Batch looked really good in week 1 for someone who doesn't consistently get to play. Patrick Ramsey is also a really good backup. (Though, to be fair, Schaub has the potential there to be a very good regular starter.)

I'd give the NL Cy Young to Brandon Webb. He's tied for the lead in Wins, has the second best ERA, is second in WHIP, and Complete Games.

isn't it some sort of rule if you don't re-sign with your team by a certain deadline you have to wait till May 1 or something to re-sign with them. I think that was the cover-up, er, excuse as to why Clemens waited 50 games to re-sign with Houston

As a Tigers fan I will be happy so long as they make the playoffs. However me and some friends were talking about this very thing over the weekend. They probably aren't going to win the World Series. So to not even win the division after the season they have had would be rather disappointing. You don't really remember wild card births when going over a teams history. But you do remember division titles.

That is indeed a rule. But May 1st is about 20-odd games into the season.

Here's the damning thing: first, it was leaked that Clemens would be signing with the Astros. All of a sudden, there was a flurry of denials from every side: the Astros, his agent, etc. The next morning, less than 18 hours later, it's officially announced that Clemens is signing with the Astros.

What could've happened within those 18 hours for such an about-face? How about this: the Yankees, Red Sox, and Marlins all completed their 50th game of the season, the last three teams to do so.

intellectually, yes the Tigers should be happy just to make the playoffs.

but when is ever it REALLY an "honor just to be nominated?"

i'm an idealist, i will freely admit that. that being said,

i don't care whether you play pee wee hockey or are the highest paid professional athelete in the world, there is one goal and one goal only: to be the best. to win the championship. other accomplishments are nice but never "enough". to settle for anything less -- as a player or a fan -- is unacceptable.

1. If you told a Tigers fan before the season that they would make the postseason, they would have been ecstatic. Having led their division most of the year, it has to be somewhat of a downer if they don't win it.

2. Chris Carpenter I think has to win it, but not for any good reason. Can we give Johan the Cy Young for the NL too, since he's that good (he won a couple games against the NL, didn't he? Similarly, can we give Ryan Howard the AL MVP?

3. I still think Johan is the MVP. Watch as he'll dominate [what's left of] my Red Sox...

4. If I were a Broncos fan, Jay Cutler would probably be my answer. Otherwise Schaub is the obvious choice.

5. Since you took away Satchel Paige as an option, I'll go with Nolan Ryan, who pitched a no-hitter in his 40s, and gave Robin Ventura a noogie. Bonus points for unintentional comedy.

6. Sadly, I didn't even remember Emmitt was MVP of the Super Bowl that year, so I can't pick that one. I would argue, however, that winning the Super Bowl is "more" impressive than DWTS.

I wonder if this SI story, of how Jeter did NOT back A-Rod during his slump, will influence even one voter to draw back from him as a possible MVP. That's not exactly strong clubhouse leadership, if Mr. "Sorry for ......, you please fill in the blank for me" has to be the one to go tell Torre to whip his butt around in that locker room.

Heck, it's Papi's clubhouse leadership that had him getting MVP support in light of his DH position. (I think any player that allows the starting pitchers NOT to have to hit, or worried about being pinch-hit for, seems pretty valuable to me, though!)

I just read sheldiz's post and I change my answer to #1. From a fans perspective a couple of years form now if you just mke the playoffs then it should be looked on as a success, but as a professional sports team, or any competitive team you should never be happy with what you got until it's over or else you've already lost. The Tigers shouldn't be happy until they win the World Series. 5 years down the road they may be happy with what they did this season if they come up short but right now just win, baby, win!

Tiger fans may say they are happy just to be in the playoffs, but slipping like this in the past month is not good. They lose any sort of momentum they had (which is important, especially considering how successful wild card teams have been).

And true, they could put up the front that this year, playoffs are an amazing step (which it is), and that next year they will build on this, but they miraculously avoided injury all year long. I doubt that happens two years in a row...

1. Playoffs is enough.2. My vote goes to Brandon Webb for the NL Cy.3. Interesting on the AL MVP. While Papi was the front runner until the Sox checked out of the playoff hunt, you would lean towards Dye, Morneau, Jeter, and the darkhorse of Thomas. Jeter ends up winning because of east-coast bias. (Anyone else think its interesting that we talk about how being in the playoffs makes a difference as to whether you are considered a candidate, yet not one member of the Tigers team is in that category?)4. Jay Cutler would be my take for back-up QB to start (as he should be already).5. Clemens. If Franco played every day he'd be my vote.6. No chance. I'll take a Super Bowl ring and MVP trophy anyday, you'd have to shoot me to make me be on DWTS.

Take Pujols stats and add in the 3 weeks he missed. Look at RISP stats (remember those killed Andruw Jones last year). Pujols has 4 more RBI than Howard in RISP situations. I'll see if I can find Bernie Miklasz's breakdown of this.

Pujols carried the Cards in April and May. Say what you want about early season games, but the more you win early, the fewer you need to win late.

All that said, the city of St. Louis wins either way. Howard is a native.

#1 - I am a Tigers fan, and I will be very happy if they can just get in...yet I will be disappointed if they don't win the division (especially with their closing schedule). Either way it has been a great season so far.

#5 - My initial thought was, it has to be Nolan Ryan. I wasn't really old enough to remember him much before he was 40, but I still remember him dominating games when he pitched. And yes, bonus points for the headlock on Robin Ventura, that was great!

As a Tigers fan, yes it is awesome we have a very good chance to make the playoffs but I have to tell you that as a fan when my team is doing well I get greedy, especially here in Detroit. We expect so much of our sports franchises (except the Lions.) The Red Wings and Pistons were disappointing and I think the expectations are just as high for the Tigers now that they have shown us some flashes of brilliance.

1. Yes, it will be disappointing for the Tigers to make it as merely the wild card winner. They had the best record in baseball by quite a few games (at the break). The have a near .500 record since. If they still have the best record and then the Twins passed them with the best record (making the Tigers 2nd best) fine. But, it's not a good feeling with how far they've dropped off. If you look at last season (or seasons) it a success, but not compared to where they were THIS season.

Cy Young...EASY...Carlos Zambrano. Top 10 in ERA, top 5 in wins and strikeouts. AND, those wins are on the Cubs (one of the worst teams in baseball). He hasn't had any major slumps, and had a couple near no-hitters.

As for backup...Jared Lorenzen. The backup beast. Schaub may have the most talent, by for my money, I would love to see D-linemen try to take down this 300 pound "stud." Plus, he's got a cannon...guess he's a battleship (cannon and a huge slow object).

Just a quick note on Hoffman - people seem to be hanging on the huge flameout in that game against the Dodgers but guess what? - if the Dodgers don't win the division and the Padres do - nobody will care.

It's not the NFL MVP or Heisman Trophy - you get to have a bad game here and there in baseball and still win the awards.

Yeah because it happened just the other day - and it was so rare, everyone remembers Hoffman flaming out in that Dodger game - but talk to me in two weeks when the season is over and see if that is even on your radar.

If anyone wants some cheap laughs, just go to a DWTS comment blog like the one on EW.com and post comments that Emmitt Smith is the greatest RB ever and you are going to vote for him no matter what since he was a great football player.

I did that when Jerry Rice was competing and you should have seen all the responses I got. People acted like I was fixing the Presidential election or something and I never even watched the show or actually voted! Some of them take the show way too seriously.

1) Getting to the playoffs should be enough. They are VERY young and talented and should be able to build on this for a few more years.

2) I like the Hoffman choice, but I think Carpenter gets it. The Cardinals have been quiet all year and they are quietly going to win the division again.

3) I think Morneau should get it. (Im still not sold on the F. Thomas idea) I think Jeter WILL win it, and maybe deservedly so since he had to serve as a team captain/all-star SS/on-field shrink for A-Rod for the entire season. (NOTE: If Jeter passes Mauer for the batting title, I give it to him.)

4) I have to say Schaub because he actually SHOULD be starting somewhere. Dilfer is up there too for his experience.

5) Jeff George...wait...

6) Havent watched it, but I have to agree with you because he trained all his life for the NFL. He has no idea how to dance (presumably).

1. On paper, it doesn’t matter any which way. But the title “AL Central Divisional Champion Detroit Tigers” sounds ten times better than “AL Wild Card Champion Detroit Tigers”. It should make the city stick out its chest a little more. Besides, it wants the best record in baseball. My friend, who grew up in Detroit and still follows all of its sports, says that if the Tigers end up with the best record in baseball at the end of the season, then the city would boast of MLB, NBA, NHL, and WNBA teams that all ended up with the best record in their leagues. The Lions, on the other hand….

However, it might want the WC more. Just look at the previous teams to won the WS by making the playoffs via the wild card.

2. I like Carpenter for two reasons: His team, and his stats. He is the best pitcher on the best team in his division, who is actually going to the playoffs, unlike Zambrano or Webb, who would come in 2nd and 3rd.

Carpenter’s stats: 15/173/2.79. Best combo in the NL.

If Pedro had stayed healthy, he would have gotten it, and if Tommy G had been a little more reliable, then it would have been his.

3. It should be either Morneau or Dye, whichever team makes the playoffs. If both (unlikely), then Morneau.

If DJ gets it, then I won’t cry. He has held the Yanks together, and if he wasn’t there, then they might still be fighting the Sox for the AL East.

4. Schaub. I can’t think of anyone else off the top of my head.

5. Julio Franco, by a long shot. Have you seen him without his shirt off? He is the most ripped player on the Mets, or most teams, for that matter. He also owns so many “Oldest player to…” records that you can’t help by laugh when you see him play.

On a side note, there is a man that I play with in my church league softball team that plays first base. He’s in his late 70s. Like 78. Watching him play really inspires me to do so much more at my young age. He still goes full speed in whatever he’s doing on the field.

6. You would put a dance contest over winning Super Bowls, and even being the best player in one said contest? No way, gimme the rings.

3) I'm a fan of Frank Thomas too, but the only hole I see in the Frank Thomas theory is: if you had to do the whole season over again, would you trade Derek Jeter, David Ortiz or Justin Morneau for Frank Thomas? I sure wouldn't.

1. The Tigers getting in the playoffs with The Roaster and a rookie as their dangerous 1-2 and Todd Jones as their closer should make the Detroit fans happy because next year the horseshoe will be gone.

2. Chris Carpenter for the NL Cy.

3. As a Canadian I would love for Morneau to win the MVP, but I believe they have already given the award to Jeter and they'll tell the world later.

4. Schaub is good but unproven, give me Trent Dilfer (60% completions in 2005 and a Superbowl ring)... I am sorry those words just came out of my mouth.

1.) I firmly believe that all that matters in MLB now is getting to the playoffs. With that being said, however, certain teams go on streaks, and those usually matter most.

I mean, the Mets look good, but without Pedro, oh boy. Or even the Twins. Man, without Liriano or Radke, I'm not placing any money on them.

But I really do think it'd hurt the Tigers should they not win the Central. It would be a huge blown lead, and would certainly play into account when considering what they're coming back from in years past.

Now do I think that Leyland will be an effective manager and tell them it won't matter (and ultimately, if they just make it to the playoffs, that would be good enough for them)-- yeah. So bottom line, as long as they make it, they have a shot. But if I were to put money on them, they'd have to win the Central.

#6)The MVP means so much more. But I'll take the devil's advocate stance.

If Emmitt wins DWTS, think about his book deal! It would also solidfy him for at least another couple million in endorsements. Granted, he probably doesn't need the money. But c'mon! This guy is about WINNING- and if he can't outlast Jerry Rice, you KNOW it'll bug him.

1. At first glance, yes it does matter because they have melted in the second half, however if my team, the Blue Jays, made the post-season I wouldn't care how or who they'll be facing....

2. Can they get rid of the Cy and give two MVP awards? If not...then I say...that no hitter guy.

3. Morneau..hands down

4. Aaron Rodgers - just start the guy already and trade Favre to the Titans....please!!

5. I think Dave Winfield was 41 when he hit the 2 out double against the Braves when the Jays won their 1st of 2 straight World Series in '92 (and yes this did REALLY happen - so I'll take him over Scott Bakula in "Necessary Roughness".

6. Don't watch DWS - but Emmitt winning "Idol" would be more impressive than winning the SB28 MVP.

I don't disagree that *some* or even *many* atheletes' number one priority/goal is getting paid. I do however, hold onto hope that that is not possibly true across the board.

That being said, it stands to reason that the surest way to a big bonus is to perform. And the strongest measure of a successful performance is a championship.

i appreciate cynicism as much as the next person, but i flat out refuse to believe that every professional athlete is solely motivated by money. i can't raise my (as of yet non-existant) kids in a sports world where that's true.

As for over-40 athletes, I've got the Astros game on the MLB.tv package here, and they asked who the starting pitcher against Clemens in his first start in 1984 was. I cheated on baseball-almanac.com to find out it was Neal Heaton, but more impressive was that Cleveland's starting shortstop was none other than old man Julio Franco!

1. I'd be a little disappointed that they didn't win the division (though that disappointment would be alleviated by the fact that the Twins came back from being to much to win it), but I would definitely be pleased that they made it all.

2. My pick would be Carpenter. He's been awesome for the second half.

I think there are some great pitchers in the NL this year that you could take, especially if you're willing to give a lot less weight to Wins as a measure of winning the Cy Young (especially now that so many pitcher's innings are hampered by pitch counts, giving more vulture wins to middle relievers)

Also, I didn't like one of your reasons for Hoff winning the Cy. Why would his approaching the league lead for career saves matter for Cy Young? It doesn't and shouldn't be a factor because the Cy Young only counts for this season, not for one's career.

3. Thomas is nice, but my vote would have to go to Santana.

Sure, there are some who'd say "But he only plays once every 5 games". Sure but he's always going to be a huge factor in those games. A guy like Thomas...I'm sure if you looked back at the season, and voted an MVP for each game, Santana would probably be the MVP for more games than any other person.

Actually, thinking about it, I really like that idea. They should almost make it official. Have a player be voted MVP for each game, and calculate that person's MVP candidacy based on how many games they were the MVP. For that matter, you could almost do a 3 star system, and vote a 1-2-3 star, and give players points based on where tehy placed (3 points for first, 2 for second, 1 for third)

1. Very important that the Tigers win the division. Right now, they have no shot to beat the Yankees, but they'd be favored against the A's. It would still be a good season if they went three-and-out in the playoffs, but it would be better if they could make the ALCS.

#5. All of you seem to be on the baseball train here, but how about Jack Nicklaus? Man had a great career after 40, capped off by that triumphant Masters win that might be the biggest sports accomplishment by an athlete over 40....

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DanShanoff.com is a sports-blog spin-off of my long-time ESPN.com column, "The Daily Quickie." Anchored by an early-morning post of must-know topics, the blog is updated frequently throughout the day with new posts and user comments.