If you haven't yet seen this week's Jack Rabbit Speaks newsletter, Will Chase includes a great piece about tickets for the 2012 event.

Will Chase wrote:I'M ANXIOUS ABOUT GETTING A BURNING MAN TICKET THIS YEAR. WHAT DO I DO?

Don't panic. While we understand everybody's eager (and perhaps anxious) to secure themselves a ticket for 2012, it's important to remember that we're selling AS MANY OR MORE tickets than we did in 2011, only through different mechanisms than in the past. There are in reality upwards of five different ways you could acquire tickets:

You can get 'em in the holiday Pre-Sale now ... register, and we'll do a random drawing from all entries to distribute 3,000 tickets.

You can get 'em in the Main Sale in January ... just register, and we'll do a random drawing for 40,000 tickets.

We'll have a first-come, first-served Open Sale of 10,000 tickets (plus whatever's left over from the Main Sale) in March.

Then there's the inevitable aftermarket from Burners like yourselves who either sell their extras, or realize they can't attend, and sell them. (We're anticipating this will be a big market, and we're working on a system that helps you buy and sell them more safely.)

Finally, if you're particularly financially constrained, we've also got a Low Income Ticket Program that'll start up after the Main Sale ... it requires filling out a written application for our hard-working ticket folks to review by hand.

We really do believe that with all these mechanisms to get tickets, most everybody's needs will be met. We worked very hard on this, weighing many variables, and determined that this solution would serve the community's myriad needs at this time.

Inevitably, there's going to be something that doesn't work perfectly, and we are committed to learning from our experience and improving things for the future. We'll continue to study and evolve our systems to adapt to the ever-changing needs of our community. In fact, when you go to register for tickets, you'll be asked to fill out a quick 12-question survey, which will help us learn more about you and your purchasing patterns, providing important data for our ongoing considerations and system improvements.

If you still have questions or concerns about the ticket process this year, chances are they're answered in our Ticket FAQ … or somebody's discussing them on ePlaya.

Thanks for hanging in there with us through all this ... luckily, Burners are nothing if not adept at adapting to a shifting landscape (and the occasional whiteout dust storm).

I'm just super anxious for the lotto to start. I'm not going to be worried if I don't get a pre-sale ticket... there are still plenty of chances to secure a ticket.. I just really really really really..... really want to know if I secured a special Christmas present for myself. I know it says that we will be notified by the 19th.. but since the presale registration was finished last night at midnight, does that mean that your starting to draw them now? Does that mean I may get the sacred email of happiness and joy dictating that the cost of two tickets is being taken off my credit card today?

First, "lotto" is really a poor choice of words, since that implies few chances of success and many chances of failure. While the pre-sale probably has the lowest chance of success of any of the drawings (only 3,000 tickets), it's still a completely different thing. Second, the registration lists will first be de-duped and then scrubbed to remove scalpers and scammers before the drawing is held. Once it takes place, those who are awarded tickets will receive notification as well as their gift certificate suitable for printing and their cards will be billed. On or by the 19th is the promised date. Have patience, and try not to get tense, stressed, or anxious about it (the energy you put into that doesn't affect the outcome).

trilobyte wrote:First, "lotto" is really a poor choice of words, since that implies few chances of success and many chances of failure. While the pre-sale probably has the lowest chance of success of any of the drawings (only 3,000 tickets), it's still a completely different thing. Second, the registration lists will first be de-duped and then scrubbed to remove scalpers and scammers before the drawing is held. Once it takes place, those who are awarded tickets will receive notification as well as their gift certificate suitable for printing and their cards will be billed. On or by the 19th is the promised date. Have patience, and try not to get tense, stressed, or anxious about it (the energy you put into that doesn't affect the outcome).

Ya... lotto is just the word that I see used all over this forum. The probability of success in the pre-sale depends on how many burners can afford the most expensive ticket right before Christmas. I'm guessing there are a bunch.. because Burning Man is more important that Christmas to many. I just wish I knew how many registered to the presale as of now (which I know you can see, but don't feel like telling me.)

Information about the number of registrants, for either the pre-sale or the main sale, will not be made public.

I met with the box office team today, and they tell me that emails will go out on the 19th to all those who registered for the pre-sale. Possibly a little sooner, but most likely on the 19th. Those who were awarded tickets will get confirmation, their gift certificates, and their invoice total; and those who were not awarded tickets will get an email letting them know that their information will be carried over into the main sale, and that if their request was for more than 2 tickets it's been reduced to 2 for the main sale.

I live in the UK ... spoke to my bank today. Plenty of funds in the account. I asked that it would be OK for approx $860 to go through this week. The reply was that they may refuse it because it's a big amount and in a foreign currency, even though there is sufficient funds ... and no they can't pre-authorize it ... and no they won't make a note on my account, as it's all computer controlled ....

funkyjigsaw wrote:I live in the UK ... spoke to my bank today. Plenty of funds in the account. I asked that it would be OK for approx $860 to go through this week. The reply was that they may refuse it because it's a big amount and in a foreign currency, even though there is sufficient funds ... and no they can't pre-authorize it ... and no they won't make a note on my account, as it's all computer controlled ....

Pfffffff ...............

WOWWWWWW

This could be a very, very.. very... big deal. Trilo.. we need some BMOrg help with this..

trilobyte wrote:Large dollar international purchases have always been a concern for some financial institutions, that's nothing new and unfortunately outside the control of the BMOrg or the ticketing vendor.

..but there needs to be some kind of special consideration for this type of situation when it's a sudden death lose your spot kind of thing. In the past system, one could always speak to the bank, clear it up, and continue purchase. If foreign purchasers are going to be given a one shot, sudden death type system for the transaction to clear or they don't get tickets.. there could be a MASSIVE discrimination and screwing over of foreign burners.

funkyjigsaw wrote:I live in the UK ... spoke to my bank today. Plenty of funds in the account. I asked that it would be OK for approx $860 to go through this week. The reply was that they may refuse it because it's a big amount and in a foreign currency, even though there is sufficient funds ... and no they can't pre-authorize it ... and no they won't make a note on my account, as it's all computer controlled ....

Pfffffff ...............

Thinking about how could be addressed in future : (1) Upon registration, pay a deposit ($50?); (2) If selected in the draw, then there is a period of two weeks when everyone has the ability to pay the balance due ... this can be by card or paypal; (3) If the balance is not paid (rare?), then those tickets are available for the main draw / open sale.

trilobyte wrote:Large dollar international purchases have always been a concern for some financial institutions, that's nothing new and unfortunately outside the control of the BMOrg or the ticketing vendor.

..but there needs to be some kind of special consideration for this type of situation when it's a sudden death lose your spot kind of thing. In the past system, one could always speak to the bank, clear it up, and continue purchase. If foreign purchasers are going to be given a one shot, sudden death type system for the transaction to clear or they don't get tickets.. there could be a MASSIVE discrimination and screwing over of foreign burners.

Not. Good.

No, I disagree ... there should be no special consideration. The system just needs to be designed to work with this.I've spent a long time thinking about this "lottery" ... and I think that the BMORG has got the system about right. I LIKE the "draw" system ... I didn't at first, but now it's grown on me.And with a few "tweaks" I think it could work really well.I know the concern about large art/sound camps and artists getting tickets. I know that it takes a huge commitment of time ... well beyond the 8 months from Jan to Aug ... to create wonderful art. But surely there can be a way to fix this? Let me think about this particular problem ..

trilobyte wrote:Information about the number of registrants, for either the pre-sale or the main sale, will not be made public.

I met with the box office team today, and they tell me that emails will go out on the 19th to all those who registered for the pre-sale. Possibly a little sooner, but most likely on the 19th. Those who were awarded tickets will get confirmation, their gift certificates, and their invoice total; and those who were not awarded tickets will get an email letting them know that their information will be carried over into the main sale, and that if their request was for more than 2 tickets it's been reduced to 2 for the main sale.

What if you were awarded a ticket, but there was a banking error (or insufficient funds).. will you get a special email stating that? That way the person knows they need to take extra steps to insure they get approved for the main sale.

trilobyte wrote:Large dollar international purchases have always been a concern for some financial institutions, that's nothing new and unfortunately outside the control of the BMOrg or the ticketing vendor.

..but there needs to be some kind of special consideration for this type of situation when it's a sudden death lose your spot kind of thing. In the past system, one could always speak to the bank, clear it up, and continue purchase. If foreign purchasers are going to be given a one shot, sudden death type system for the transaction to clear or they don't get tickets.. there could be a MASSIVE discrimination and screwing over of foreign burners.

Not. Good.

Of course, there is a follow-on concern : IF I get awarded a ticket, but my card is refused by the fraud detection team ... THEN ... is my registration rolled over to the main sale?? ... if not DOUBLE OUCH!!! ... and general meltdown ...

trilobyte wrote:Information about the number of registrants, for either the pre-sale or the main sale, will not be made public.

I met with the box office team today, and they tell me that emails will go out on the 19th to all those who registered for the pre-sale. Possibly a little sooner, but most likely on the 19th. Those who were awarded tickets will get confirmation, their gift certificates, and their invoice total; and those who were not awarded tickets will get an email letting them know that their information will be carried over into the main sale, and that if their request was for more than 2 tickets it's been reduced to 2 for the main sale.

What if you were awarded a ticket, but there was a banking error (or insufficient funds).. will you get a special email stating that? That way the person knows they need to take extra steps to insure they get approved for the main sale.

funkyjigsaw wrote:No, I disagree ... there should be no special consideration. The system just needs to be designed to work with this.

You just contradicted yourself, my friend That's what I'm saying. The system needs some type of special consideration/designing to work with this.

funkyjigsaw wrote:Of course, there is a follow-on concern : IF I get awarded a ticket, but my card is refused by the fraud detection team ... THEN ... is my registration rolled over to the main sale?? ... if not DOUBLE OUCH!!! ... and general meltdown ...

YES.. and this is the problem. Under the current plan, if your card doesn't go through for WHATEVER reason, you are thereby denied tickets and you LOSE YOUR CHANCE. See ya. Bye bye.

Now.. do you.. understand my concern? This could screw thousands of foreign applicants out of tickets for reasons out of their control.

Tell me again that foreign applicants don't deserve some type of special consideration for this exact scenario.

Last edited by junglesmacks on Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

trilobyte wrote:Information about the number of registrants, for either the pre-sale or the main sale, will not be made public.

I met with the box office team today, and they tell me that emails will go out on the 19th to all those who registered for the pre-sale. Possibly a little sooner, but most likely on the 19th. Those who were awarded tickets will get confirmation, their gift certificates, and their invoice total; and those who were not awarded tickets will get an email letting them know that their information will be carried over into the main sale, and that if their request was for more than 2 tickets it's been reduced to 2 for the main sale.

What if you were awarded a ticket, but there was a banking error (or insufficient funds).. will you get a special email stating that? That way the person knows they need to take extra steps to insure they get approved for the main sale.

I'm less concerned about banking error. If there are insufficient funds = bad planning and an unhappy face ((((HOWEVER ... I am really happy that my bank takes huge efforts to protect me from fraud ... and as an overseas burner, this is exactly the type of transaction they will block!!!!

funkyjigsaw wrote:No, I disagree ... there should be no special consideration. The system just needs to be designed to work with this.

You just contradicted yourself, my friend That's what I'm saying. The system needs some type of special consideration/designing to work with this.

funkyjigsaw wrote:Of course, there is a follow-on concern : IF I get awarded a ticket, but my card is refused by the fraud detection team ... THEN ... is my registration rolled over to the main sale?? ... if not DOUBLE OUCH!!! ... and general meltdown ...

YES.. and this is the problem. Under the current plan, if your card doesn't go through for WHATEVER reason, you are thereby denied tickets and you LOSE YOUR CHANCE. See ya. Bye bye.

Now.. do you.. understand my concern? This could screw thousands of foreign applicants out of tickets for reasons out of their control.

Tell me again that foreign applicants don't deserve some type of special consideration for this exact scenario.

Ha ha! YES! We are having an agreement! But what fun is there in that!I quote my post ... which may have been missed :Thinking about how could be addressed in future : (1) Upon registration, pay a deposit ($50?); (2) If selected in the draw, then there is a period of two weeks when everyone has the ability to pay the balance due ... this can be by card or paypal; (3) If the balance is not paid (rare?), then those tickets are available for the main draw / open sale.

In the past, there was not. If the card was declined, you had to go speak to your bank and then, if they made an allowance, start over again. Any place in line that you had was lost completely.

It is a problem that lies with how some international banks operate (and is not specific to either Burning Man or the purchase of event tickets). The unfortunate part is that funkyjigsaw waited until now to give that consideration for the pre-sale, and didn't start checking with their bank a couple weeks ago (or even before the pre-sale began), leaving no time to make other arrangements. Sorry.

@remi - you would receive notification that the purchase had been declined. I don't believe the financial institution would provide additional details.

@funkyjigsaw - if you receive a purchase declined notification in the pre-sale (since it sounds as if you just don't know yet whether your bank would approve it), you should contact Participant Services via partiserv(at)burningman(dot)com regarding the payment method for the main sale. To be honest, though, you should be reaching out with your bank's account services rep. From personal experience, when planning for travel abroad they should be able to make the appropriate notes in their files that let their people know what's going on. It's essential when doing things like booking hotels, travel arrangement, rental cars, etc.

@junglesmacks - it's the same problem that's affected international travelers who aren't able to make arrangements with their bank. Trying to get through on day one to get a ticket at a particular tier and there's a problem with the card… bang, you're done. Try and get it sorted and get back in the queue, those tickets are gone. It's not a problem that's specific to Burning Man either. Fortunately, the majority of institutions are able to make pretty reasonable accommodations for their customers these days - but the problem is still an international banking issue (it potentially affects US citizens making large dollar purchases in foreign currencies as well).

trilobyte wrote:In the past, there was not. If the card was declined, you had to go speak to your bank and then, if they made an allowance, start over again. Any place in line that you had was lost completely.

It is a problem that lies with how some international banks operate (and is not specific to either Burning Man or the purchase of event tickets). The unfortunate part is that funkyjigsaw waited until now to give that consideration for the pre-sale, and didn't start checking with their bank a couple weeks ago (or even before the pre-sale began), leaving no time to make other arrangements. Sorry.

Trilobyte : It's the fraud detection systems (computers) that are the issue. To be clear, there is NOTHING I can do with my bank that would address this ... according to them! I checked with the bank weeks ago ... I checked again today ... same response : "We will either process your transaction OK, or we will kick it to fraud detection. It's a computer that does this."I knew all of this before I registered for the pre-sale.Maybe you are assuming that I'm complaining?? I'm not! I'm just highlighting problems in the system. And I'm suggesting solutions.

I understand, it's just that it's that much more critical in a time like this when you may potentially get one and one shot only for that purchase to go through. Before, yeah.. you just got back in line. Now there is no line to get back into. I would wholeheartedly applaud some type of re-thinking this issue for our foreign burner friends..

Some type of small deposit system for overseas people with the clause that it must be completed within a short, set amount of time would be a great way to fix it.

trilobyte wrote:@remi - you would receive notification that the purchase had been declined. I don't believe the financial institution would provide additional details.

@funkyjigsaw - if you receive a purchase declined notification in the pre-sale (since it sounds as if you just don't know yet whether your bank would approve it), you should contact Participant Services via partiserv(at)burningman(dot)com regarding the payment method for the main sale. To be honest, though, you should be reaching out with your bank's account services rep. From personal experience, when planning for travel abroad they should be able to make the appropriate notes in their files that let their people know what's going on. It's essential when doing things like booking hotels, travel arrangement, rental cars, etc.

@junglesmacks - it's the same problem that's affected international travelers who aren't able to make arrangements with their bank. Trying to get through on day one to get a ticket at a particular tier and there's a problem with the card… bang, you're done. Try and get it sorted and get back in the queue, those tickets are gone. It's not a problem that's specific to Burning Man either. Fortunately, the majority of institutions are able to make pretty reasonable accommodations for their customers these days - but the problem is still an international banking issue (it potentially affects US citizens making large dollar purchases in foreign currencies as well).

Yes, I know! You are totally right Trilobyte ... I have trust that everything will work out. Yes, they should be able to make the adjustments for when people travel abroad. However, they know I'm not abroad! I'm in the UK. A transaction from abroad is NOT the same as BEING abroad. So a transaction from across the pond may be put through to fraud detection. These banks detect fraud VERY effectively .... To be clear, my bank KNOWS I'm now in the UK ... I'm not in San Francisco!

trilobyte wrote:Well, you get one shot before getting in line in March.

..but even then.. the problem is computer controlled and out of the users hand.

I can identify with this type of issue.. I had to drop a bank over it. I use to use military banking (USAA) and the only way to deposit checks other than mailing them in and waiting was their mobile deposit system which works very well. You take a picture of the check with your iphone via their app, and it instantly deposits the check in your account. The problem is that the computer would randomly hold portions of the check without warning for 7 days. There was no way that the bank could tell if it was going to do it and it couldn't override it. It was a crapshoot if your funds would be tied up like that with no warning. I said to hell with this.. I'm out.. and now use my local bank for personal funding and USAA for basic small dollar billpay because my auto insurance is tied to them and I get discounts if my banking is too.

TMI, I know. Just saying that I can identify with bank computers holding things on you with ZERO recourse or prior warning. You can be prepared as you can be and the computer can still screw you over.

I know there are (obviously) no plans to fix this for this year. I hear you. But.. there needs to be.

junglesmacks wrote:I understand, it's just that it's that much more critical in a time like this when you may potentially get one and one shot only for that purchase to go through. Before, yeah.. you just got back in line. Now there is no line to get back into. I would wholeheartedly applaud some type of re-thinking this issue for our foreign burner friends..

Some type of small deposit system for overseas people with the clause that it must be completed within a short, set amount of time would be a great way to fix it.

Exactly what I was suggesting!!

But all fuck buggery aside ... let's see what happens yes!!! Yay! Love you all ... I'm sure we will be there. AND I repeat ... I like this system! xxx