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Re: 1/5/2014 Game Thread #33: Pacers Vs. Cavaliers

Absolute pennies compared to the tens of millions of dollars (hundreds of millions?) that the community has given the team over the years. They owe it to the community to go over the LT if that's what it takes in the future.

Are we really getting back to this? The only way this works is if you claim the Pacers really have never lost money, ignore the fact that they DID pay the LT for a number of years, and come up with the number that Herb is expected to lose to make up for it. Is it $30M? Is it $60M? Or what are you counting in addition to get your hundreds of millions - the city didn't contribute "hundreds of millions" even if you count the cost of building the Fieldhouse and pretend the Simons gave nothing toward it. Is that over 10 years or all at once? Does he also have to pay extra because the franchise has been of zero benefit to the community in the 30 year's the Simons have owned it (since they never won a championship)? If they go over the tax do they get to rescind the "no move" clause in the CIB agreement? Or would it just be better if the city shut them down because they weren't willing to lose money on purpose?

There are times I think some people won't be happy until we have a big public burning of the Fieldhouse, with everyone cheering that those drains on the public coffers have finally been destroyed and rejoicing in the economic boost that the new parking lot will bring. Maybe a video of everyone singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" as the flames spread to Circle Centre, casting a beautiful glow on Lucas Oil Stadium, would go viral.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: 1/5/2014 Game Thread #33: Pacers Vs. Cavaliers

Are we really getting back to this? The only way this works is if you claim the Pacers really have never lost money, ignore the fact that they DID pay the LT for a number of years, and come up with the number that Herb is expected to lose to make up for it. Is it $30M? Is it $60M? Or what are you counting in addition to get your hundreds of millions - the city didn't contribute "hundreds of millions" even if you count the cost of building the Fieldhouse and pretend the Simons gave nothing toward it. Is that over 10 years or all at once? Does he also have to pay extra because the franchise has been of zero benefit to the community in the 30 year's the Simons have owned it (since they never won a championship)? If they go over the tax do they get to rescind the "no move" clause in the CIB agreement? Or would it just be better if the city shut them down because they weren't willing to lose money on purpose?

There are times I think some people won't be happy until we have a big public burning of the Fieldhouse, with everyone cheering that those drains on the public coffers have finally been destroyed and rejoicing in the economic boost that the new parking lot will bring. Maybe a video of everyone singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" as the flames spread to Circle Centre, casting a beautiful glow on Lucas Oil Stadium, would go viral.

I've just always found it hard to believe that a couple of billionaires who started a mall empire couldn't even negotiate a brand new stadium deal which would make them money. I thought that the whole point of getting the Fieldhouse was because the Pacers couldn't survive financially at MSA?. When the team and city did the Fieldhouse deal in the 90's, the Pacers were at the zenith of their popularity and were obviously in a strong negotiating position. Yet a couple of billionaires who built a mall empire couldn't even negotiate a deal in a brand new arena to make the team money? Yeah, I'll forever call major BS on that since we've never seen the books.

The only year in the last decade the Pacers made money, Morris said, was 2001-2002, the third season in the Fieldhouse.

So let me get this straight: They are telling us that they couldn't even make money in 1999-2000 when the Fieldhouse was brand new, the team sold out all 41 home games, and we went all the way to the NBA Finals? We were at the absolute zenith of our popularity that year, yet I'm really supposed to believe that we lost money?

Re: 1/5/2014 Game Thread #33: Pacers Vs. Cavaliers

So if $15M extra to cover a $4M rise over the LT is "a little more", what would you think of as too much to spend? Should Simon be willing to go into the Nets and Lakers $100M LT level?

I'm still waiting for you to get this upset when people suggest to give DG 9mil a year and go over the cap because he is the soul of the team, it seems like this only happen if somebody suggest to go over the cap with somebody else.

Re: 1/5/2014 Game Thread #33: Pacers Vs. Cavaliers

I'm still waiting for you to get this upset when people suggest to give DG 9mil a year and go over the cap because he is the soul of the team, it seems like this only happen if somebody suggest to go over the cap with somebody else.

I think that would be stupid. Did someone actually suggest that? Or are you interpreting "I think it would be nice if Danny stayed" to mean "break the bank to keep him"?

I am OK with them going over the LT for a little bit. I encourage it, I think it will bring in more than it loses. I would do it to keep Lance (barring a ridiculous salary of $10M+). What I DON'T like is the idea that somehow Herb "owes" it to the city to do it.

Re: 1/5/2014 Game Thread #33: Pacers Vs. Cavaliers

So let me get this straight: They are telling us that they couldn't even make money in 1999-2000 when the Fieldhouse was brand new, the team sold out all 41 home games, and we went all the way to the NBA Finals? We were at the absolute zenith of our popularity that year, yet I'm really supposed to believe that we lost money?

Sorry, I don't buy it and I never will.

What year were they supposed to apply the cost of the Fieldhouse against? Remember that the Pacers actually kicked in a good portion of the money to build the place, and even if you pooh-pooh it because they only gave up money they were supposed to get (which is partially true), it still counts off the expected income.

In any event, we've had this discussion over and over. I don't think any minds are going to be changed.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:

Re: 1/5/2014 Game Thread #33: Pacers Vs. Cavaliers

There is only one poster that I considered a true troll. Guys who lose their cool in game threads just get caught up in the moment easily. I have done it myself. Sometimes when people get upset, they just don't think rationally.

Anyone who was on RealGM with me back in the day(cdash), probably knows who I am referring to haha. He actually came over here for a while, but I think he stopped posting around the same time the Pacers fired O'Brien.