Saturday, March 03, 2012

I estimate that there may be more than 10-12 Primates who want to talk about the inevitable blacklash against Linsanity, and with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: Ryan Braun Urine, Players Being in the Best Shape of Their Lives, and what Eric Chavez thinks about the Moneyball movie.

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Yeah, it's been brutal trying to catch up on the past decade of the NBA. I checked out when Van Gundy quit, rooted against them for a couple of years (in the hope that they'd blow it up and rebuild), and when that failed, just gave up completely. Lin has got me back into the Knicks, but there are so many other fun players to root for.

Is there ANY chance that the NBA will modify their schedules in the future? Nothing as crazy as this year, but I like less games played more often. I presume it's a non starter b/c that would lead to less money.

Is there ANY chance that the NBA will modify their schedules in the future? Nothing as crazy as this year, but I like less games played more often. I presume it's a non starter b/c that would lead to less money.

No. In fact, all anyone can talk about this season is the decreased quality of play because of the compressed schedule, lack of practice, and virtually no training camps. Neither side is going to give up any money*, but the more likely scenario is fewer games over a longer schedule than less games in a shorter schedule.

*In fact, the NBA is already prepping for opting out after 6 years of this deal. And claiming they're going to lose money this year again - which is just utter horseshit, IMO. They claimed they lost $330mil last season (which I never believed) and the players gave them $300mil per season. So perhaps they're being consistent, or claiming lost revenues from lost games as losses, but either way, giving up games is a total non-starter.

Fun night for Jazz and Bulls fans.

Ho-hum. Another 20+ point road win. I was disappointed Irving didn't play last night, I really haven't had much chance to see him play this year. Tomorrow night the Bulls visit Philly for the 2nd time this year. With the Sixers not playing their best and the Bulls fully healthy*, we'll get to see if the Sixers are truly a nightmare matchup for the Bulls** and a team they want to avoid in the playoffs.

*Rip's minutes are limited, and he's on what's known around here as the Bogans plan - he's playing the first 6-9 mins of each half and that's it.
**In spite of all pf steagles and I back and forth earlier this year and my belief that the Bulls are clearly better than Philly, there's a lot about Philly that can give the Bulls fits. The active athletic defenders, the ball-hawking defense, and the deep bench are things the Bulls under Thibs have struggled with the last couple of years. I can see a playoff series between to two playing out similar to how the Bulls were hard pressed to get by Atlanta last year, but with Philly having a better defense and fewer specific offensive threats.

At what point would Lebron have been able to shoot it? It seems if he shoots at the moment he passes, he's moving mostly towards the basket, so that's not bad, but his man (overplaying him on the rt) has the chance to contest the shot from the side. James could have kept his drive forward, but he doesn't have much time and would be likely have to go to his left around the double team, away from the basket, or shoot a fallaway to the left. But then again, maybe I am underestimating his ability to blow by the double team and get to the hoop.

This article is just amazing. Windhorst isn't a total hack, is he? Had never thought so...

"this is just James’ reality. He passed to Haslem and did not attempt the final shot. Just like he didn’t attempt the final shot in last Sunday’s All-Star Game. Just like he’s passed on the final shot dozens of times dating back to his high school days."

It's like......on the one hand, everybody knows how stupid the controversy is; and yet, just because people are saying so, it's become a thing. LeBron believes it. Half the teenagers and illiterates in America believe he's a gutless choker.

No, he's not a hack. And yes, that quote out of context sounds hacky. That's the point of the article though - that it doesn't matter, no one is talking about Haslem and Wade - and LeBron knows it and that pressure is affecting him.

Tomorrow night the Bulls visit Philly for the 2nd time this year. With the Sixers not playing their best and the Bulls fully healthy*, we'll get to see if the Sixers are truly a nightmare matchup for the Bulls** and a team they want to avoid in the playoffs.

i know the sixers just aren't playing very well right now, but i'm still really looking forward to tomorrow's game. losing to the bulls wouldn't exactly be the end of the world, but win or lose, one thing i absolutely have to see is jrue holiday staying in front of derrick rose.

defensively, he's really only been bested by tony parker and deron williams so far this season, and coming off of his performance in the 2nd half against russell westbrook, i'm really hoping he comes out focused on hounding derrick rose. jrue has really been a disappointment this season, but i think his defense has been as good as any PG in the league. and interestingly, he also happens to lead NBA PGs in defensive win shares (according to basketball reference, anyway), so i guess i'm not completely out of line in saying it.

I linked the Windhorst piece in the Feb thread, describing it as "odd." I am not exactly sure what "hack" means, but Windhorst does write pretty well and does not do petty hatchet jobs that I have seen. His connections to James and his people did land him the Heat Index gig, but Windhorst's own writing and reporting contributed to those connections and to the hire.

The oddest thing is the possibility that LeBron sincerely believes it:

Agreed--that is why I chose the word "odd."

This may be Laker Homerism and is definitely a little Simmonsish, but if I were a Heat/James fan, I would rather have read that James' reaction to this was a Kobeish, "F everybody. I am going to play my F'ing game and that means passing the damn ball to my man UD" rather than what Windhorst described.

But...I think Miami's going to win it, in the end, James will be holding the trophy and a lot of this will be forgotten--as it should be.

I think Miami should pair James with a 6:7 shooter rather than a banger like Haslem. It will open up the lane for James and if he does have to dish, the guy he's throwing it to will be bale to knock it down. Lebron rebounds like a power forward anyway. They don't need two 4's out on the floor together.

I think Miami should pair James with a 6:7 shooter rather than a banger like Haslem. It will open up the lane for James and if he does have to dish, the guy he's throwing it to will be bale to knock it down.

This guy is listed at 6'8" and leads the league in 3pt% this year, will he do?

So, I view these guys as really close--both are 2nd bananas at best, imo. It would take a team of 5 AS kind of guys for these guys to win a title as the best players on their own team.

These are the trickiest players in the league, imo. On the one hand, they are stars. They make teams better, and they both have elite skills. Love is an elite rebounder, and LaMarcus is a very good and efficient scorer. Both are below average defenders.

Which guy I take, I think, depends on context. If I were evaluating replacements for Gasol on the Lakers, for example, I'd prefer Love. If I were trying to get to 50 wins, I'd take LaMarcus. I think Love has a role on a title winning team. I am less sure about Aldridge. I think of Love as a rich man's role player. LaMarcus is a weird guy. I'm not sure how you'd build a team around him. I know what to do with Love, so I'd take Love.

No offense, but I think that description of love is a year late. He is posting up more and scoring off the dribble more. He was a role player on steroids, but he has upped his usage by 5% and lost a little efficiency. the way he played before this year would not have sustained the gain in usage. Adelman and Rubio have helped him find ways to become more of a featured offensive player rather than a big shooter and the team's success is partially a reflection of that.

No offense, but I think that description of love is a year late. He is posting up more and scoring off the dribble more. He was a role player on steroids, but he has upped his usage by 5% and lost a little efficiency. the way he played before this year would not have sustained the gain in usage. Adelman and Rubio have helped him find ways to become more of a featured offensive player rather than a big shooter and the team's success is partially a reflection of that.

Love has lost a lot of efficiency this year. Maybe it's a blip, but he's taking 4 more shots a game and making just 1.3 more than last year. I don't think that he can sustain this rate of usage. It really digs in to his effectiveness. His FG% went from .470 to .438. This version of Kevin Love is not part of a championship caliber team. Love was a better player in 2010-2011 than this year.

I guess I was trying to say that Love, if he plays 36 minutes and takes 12-15 shots a game can be a big asset on the boards, and be a great 3rd wheel. I see him as being an upgraded role player on a team with two good options. I do not see either Aldridge or Love as the featured player on offense on a 55+ win team.

Yeah, that might be true. That is a pretty narrow definition of a number one guy if he has to be on one of the three or four best teams. Also, love's shooting isn't down much more than the league at large.

Maybe it's a blip, but he's taking 4 more shots a game and making just 1.3 more than last year.

It's not as bad as it looks. He's taking a lot more three's. His eFG% has dropped from .513 to .486, which, considering the truncated pre-season, may or may not be meaningful and isn't a huge drop. A short hot streak can correct that.

Really? I'd guess that less than a third of teams have a better second option than Love.

Look at title contenders.

Miami: Love is the 4th option.
Chicago: Love is probably the second option
Oklahoma City: Love is the third option.
San Antonio: Pop is weird, which makes this hard to evaluate. He's probably the 3rd-4th option, but might be the second.
Lakers: Not sure if they're still a title contender. Love probably comes off the bench, is the 4th option.

That is a pretty narrow definition of a number one guy if he has to be on one of the three or four best teams. Also, love's shooting isn't down much more than the league at large.

My criteria for evaluating guys always starts with: what is this guy's role on a championship contender?
The points about his shooting are well-taken. I think he'd be a better player if he took less threes.

Lakers: Not sure if they're still a title contender. Love probably comes off the bench, is the 4th option.

They're not, and if they had actually had Love, I think Pau would have gotten traded for a 1 by now and Love would be the #2 option.

Championship-caliber teams are all different, obviously, and Miami is odd in any discussion like this because of the way they were assembled. My intuitive take is that in today's NBA, leaving The Heatles aside, Love is probably good enough to be the second-best player on most serious contenders. Putting together a Finals team with him as your best player will be a challenge, and Minnesota will need to be very strong 2-5 to make that work.

I am pretty interested in today's New York/Boston game. Boston is playing better, and I would think Rondo will be highly motivated to go up against Lin, given the attention Lin has gotten and Rondo's name being tossed around in trade rumors every day.

I am pretty interested in today's New York/Boston game. Boston is playing better, and I would think Rondo will be highly motivated to go up against Lin, given the attention Lin has gotten and Rondo's name being tossed around in trade rumors every day.

I'm basically w robinred on Love.
Even taking the rosters as given (so, no trades) - love might still be the #2 in la. He could be as high as #1 in sa, would rank ahead of bosh, etc... - you're really understating him, tshipman. For instance, you criticized Love's efficiency - his .565 TS% and 115 Ortg top the marks posted by guys like Westbrook, P.Gasol, Nowitzki, Bosh, etc... Even if this overrates him (and it does), there are reasons Love is 3rd in the league in Win Shares.

As an aside, someone mentioned in the other thread that Adam Silver is already talking about renegotiating in in six years and is saying they are losing money. Even if it's true--and I am very skeptical--I find that irritating. Everything I have read indicates that interest in the league is high and the league is doing well commercially this year. I mean, I know it's a drag that Michael Jordan's team sucks so hard, but he may get Anthony Davis; and they have a league in which OKC is really good and has their main guy locked up; Memphis, Denver, and Indiana are pretty good, Minnesota has gotten a lot better and has their best guy signed to an extension. Hell, Dwight Howard may play out the year in Orlando and the Lakers aren't even the best team in Los Angeles any more. They have a more punitive tax kicking in, more revenue sharing...guess they won't be happy until they are the NFL. But that could mean no more truly great teams, and I don't think that is such a hot idea.

As for Aldridge, I think he can be the main option on a contender. However, he would need a strong cast around him. It's sad, and it really epitomizes the Blazers that he took the step to stardom right when Roy fell apart.

Just throwing a team out there - I think if you replace Brand with Aldridge the 76ers would be a contender. They wouldn't be quite as good as the Heat or Bulls still, but his skills match the skills of their other players. His trouble in Portland is that they've got some good role players, but they're missing the complementary fringe all-stars. Maybe Batum can develop into that, but they still probably need one more. This is all a long winded way of saying I don't have any problem conceptually with a team building around Aldridge.

Even taking the rosters as given (so, no trades) - love might still be the #2 in la. He could be as high as #1 in sa, would rank ahead of bosh, etc... - you're really understating him, tshipman

I think you're overrating him. Look at Bosh's last year in Toronto--he's by far the better player (and a better defender, too). It's really hard to accurately compare players to each other when one guy's the third option on a championship caliber team and the other guy's being featured on a middle of the road team.

For instance, you criticized Love's efficiency - his .565 TS% and 115 Ortg top the marks posted by guys like Westbrook, P.Gasol, Nowitzki, Bosh, etc... Even if this overrates him (and it does), there are reasons Love is 3rd in the league in Win Shares.

Love is the worst defender on that list (well, maybe Nowitzki). This is somewhat besides the point, in any case. I preferred Love because I can see a defined role for him. I am skeptical of teams headlined by power forwards. The only power forward type to recently win a championship as the featured offensive player was Nowitzki last year--maybe Garnett on the C's depending on how you view him and Pierce (Duncan is a center). If you want to argue whether Love is a #2 guy or a #3 guy on a really good team, well, I think it depends on the team. In any case, that's what I see his role as on a championship team. YMMV. Do you prefer Aldridge? What's the context?

I don't remember the last club as good a Philly without a player better than their top guy (probably still Iggy) - there's a lot of guys you could add to them to make them a contender. And, no offense to Aldridge, but I don't think he's in Love's class as a player.

Love's defense: I thought you were talking about being a second option, not first/second/... best player. Anyway, it may be to soon to say, but assessments of Love's defense are on the rise, with the bit of body transformation.
So, if he's a lesser Nowitzki on offense, but with elite rebounding skills and a bit better defense... that's someone you can build a contender around - or is, at minimum, your #2 guy.

***

Bosh/Aldridge/Love D: Depends on who you read. None of 'em have great reps, but all three had above average stats on that end last year (in part because they all do well on switches, etc...). Love is probably the worst of the bunch (this is going into the year, mind you) - I'd guess a hair below average - Bosh was probably pretty bad in Toronto but has upped the intensity on that end with Miami - I'd guess he's average or better now. Aldridge is probably truly a plus defender.

I don't remember the last club as good a Philly without a player better than their top guy (probably still Iggy) - there's a lot of guys you could add to them to make them a contender. And, no offense to Aldridge, but I don't think he's in Love's class as a player.

What about Indiana? Aren't they better? And don't they have a worse #1?

Both are below average defenders. . . LaMarcus is a weird guy. I'm not sure how you'd build a team around him.

And, no offense to Aldridge, but I don't think he's in Love's class as a player.

I'm surprised by the lack of respect Aldridge is getting here. On what basis is he a below average defender? The list of starting power forwards includes Amare Stoudemire, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, DeMarcus Cousins, and Antawn Jamison -- each of whom is undeniably terrible defensively -- and those are some of the highest-paid and/or highest-drafted players at the position. Aldridge isn't on the level of Garnett or Josh Smith defensively, but it's inconceivable to me that he's outside the top 10 among starting PFs on that end of the court. There's a good chance that he's in the top 5. Last year, when every other big man in Portland got hurt, Aldridge played 40 minutes a game and roughly half of those minutes at center. Portland's defense still rated in the top half of the league, and they gave up 5 fewer points per 100 possessions with Aldridge on the court.

This is the second consecutive year in which the Blazers are 15 points better overall with Aldridge on the court than without him (ranking him 5th in the league last year and 9th so far this year by net margin). Both seasons Portland has been approximately 10 points better on offense and 5 points better on defense with Aldridge. He seems to me like an easy player to build around, given his all-around performance and positional flexibility. With Love, I'd want to have an elite defensive center or perhaps a good defensive center and a very good defensive wing to compensate for his somewhat subpar performance there, but with Aldridge, I'd just try to find the best overall players to put around him. I agree that it would be extremely unlikely to win 55+ with him as the best guy on the team, but that's true of all but maybe 5 players in the league. Last year Portland won 48 with Aldridge as clearly the #1 guy. I could see him as the #2 player on a championship team constructed in any of several different ways.

I'm surprised by the lack of respect Aldridge is getting here. On what basis is he a below average defender?

I am probably just wrong about Aldridge's defense. I have seen Bynum/Pau/Odom really give him the business, and that probably unfairly biases me against him as a defender, when those guys are just really hard to defend. Based on the numbers, he is overall probably above average, but not in the Garnett/Smith league. He's not a shot blocker either, which biases me.

with Aldridge, I'd just try to find the best overall players to put around him. I agree that it would be extremely unlikely to win 55+ with him as the best guy on the team, but that's true of all but maybe 5 players in the league. Last year Portland won 48 with Aldridge as clearly the #1 guy. I could see him as the #2 player on a championship team constructed in any of several different ways.

Well, we know he plays well with a AS wing.
We all agree that being in the 40-50 win range (with limited upside) is a bad place to be in the NBA. I think that with LMA as your best guy, that's where you are.

We all agree that being in the 40-50 win range (with limited upside) is a bad place to be in the NBA. I think that with LMA as your best guy, that's where you are.

The thing though is he's young. And even if you hit the jack pot in the lottery, you're getting a player about as good as Aldridge (unless you get once-a-decade lucky and get Rose or Durant). I think they're in a decent spot, definitely not in purgatory. They don't need a complete rebuild, they just need another good guard/wing player. They've got guys that have flashed promise but haven't put it all together. Batum maybe can. They can reasonably upgrade at PG and the other wing position, and perhaps center. The west is wide open right now too, and I thought last year showed that a 40-50 win team that gets hot at the right time can make a run for the championship. As a fan, being where Portland is definitely better than a total rebuild - I think this is often underrated - fans want a competitive team that they can enjoy watching, even if they're not a favorite to win a championship. I think the bigger question with Portland is their front office situation, not where Aldridge fits into their plans.

Yeah, Minnesota playing like a 40 win team has definitely changed my opinion that you want to be above 55 or below 25 wins.

Weird stuff out of pdx today. The story is about vets undermining Mac, but they quote almost all the vets in describing the discord. The only guys not referenced are Felton, who we know is unhappy, and camby. Could that be enough to tank the team?

Knicks coming back, though, and game a little chippy. Not posting this to slag Lin--just that I have been arguing with a few Lakers fans lately about Rondo, trying to convince them that he is actually very good, no matter how we (LAL fans) may feel about him.

I agree that he is now, but during most of their championships (99, 03, 05) I would say he was a power forward. I don't think building around a power forward is hard if they are really really good both offense and D. I think there was an article about that w/r/t Zach Randolph, and I hope that the Spurs don't have to play the Grizz again this year for that very reason.

"Knicks coming back, though, and game a little chippy. Not posting this to slag Lin--just that I have been arguing with a few Lakers fans lately about Rondo, trying to convince them that he is actually very good, no matter how we (LAL fans) may feel about him."

Rondo is a tremendous player. And getting him would be just what the Lakers need. Problem is that the rumored trades involve Gasol. That's fixing one problem and opening another. If they want to get back to the finals they need to trade for a great PG without giving up Bynum or Gasol. I know, easier said than done.

My initial comment was before I looked into Aldridge's defensive numbers (a lot better than his rep) and with looking at box score numbers that weren't accounting for pace or mpg (both of which favor Love). Love's big, obvious advantage is on the boards^ (Aldridge has actually been a pretty blah rebounder this season - Love garners 50% more) - lesser ones are in the impact of his being able to shoot threes (which plays a role in dictating what defenses his club faces / gives Minnesota a little more flexibility in playing other guys with less range) and his skill at getting to the line (again, about 50% more often than LA - and Love's a 84% guy from the stripe (accordingly, Love's ortg, ts%, etc.. are slightly better)). Aldridge has better ast/to numbers, better defense (how much better matters, it matters a lot) and better unadjusted +/- figures (as used in simple rating ... it's what gives LA the advantage in that stat)). When you switch to b-v's adjusted 2 year figure, as listed above, Love take a slight, though insignificant, edge.

Not in the same class is unfair and probably wrong, though I still take Love.

^ mind you, there are worse things to not be great at as a player than rebounding. As a team, that's a different thing.

****

I flip flopped the league O/D rating averages in my Bosh/Love listing a few posts up.

Sweet day of basketball for Michigan. With the MSU loss that means MSU, OSU and UM tie for the championship. Deserved for all, as all went 1-1 against each other. First B1G championship for UM since 1986, when I was 2. Hard to believe the Fab Five didn't one at least one.

The WSJ had a nice article about the conference and its physical, grueling style, and today's MSU/OSU contest exemplified it. It's tough to watch at times, but it's also more like the NBA, where guys are allowed to muscle around the basket.

Sweet day of basketball for Michigan. With the MSU loss that means MSU, OSU and UM tie for the championship. Deserved for all, as all went 1-1 against each other. First B1G championship for UM since 1986, when I was 2. Hard to believe the Fab Five didn't one at least one.

Completely agree. Beilien has done a great job of resurrecting a once proud program. I doubt that they do much in the tournament, but Crisler Arena deserves a better team than what it's gotten in the past decade or so.

i like what the sixers were doing in the last 3 minutes against rose. i think they had turner on him, holiday on him, iguodala on him, and that last play was young on a switch. young got beat by a crossover, but i think it took rose out of his comfort zone to see a different defender so often.

also, that was one of elton brand's best halves of the season. and lou's block was a thing of beauty. jrue started the game matching rose shot for shot, and it was definitely a welcome sight. eurogoon had a nice stint off the bench when the sixers were in a bit of an offensive rut.

and meeks has really been worse than i thought. he was 8/33 from beyond the arc in his last 8 coming into this game, and he's 0/2 from beyond the arc in the first half. that's just really terrible.

hate to tell you this, but because of this losing stretch, the sixers are only 2 games up from the 7 seed. if the heat pull ahead of you, it could very possibly be sixers-bulls in round 1.

Sixers have some great length but they are a legit scoring #1 option away from relevency. How they get that guy I have no idea.

i've actually been thinking a little about this. i don't think the calculus is as simple as just adding a #1 scorer. i don't think adding carmelo, adding nash, adding ellis would put the sixers into the pack of leading contenders. i think fit matters. i think defensive presence matters.

the player i'm actually thinking about right now is eric gordon. i know he's out with a knee issue, but as i've been saying, the sixers aren't at the end of their championship window. so even if gordon doesn't get back to full strength this year, he can still be a forceful piece for the team in the future.

on the floor, gordon actually really fills a few holes for the sixers. he can hit 3s. he can create off the dribble. he can slash off the ball. he gets to the FT line. he's got length, and he's no more of a defensive liability than jodie meeks. plus he's 23, which means he'd be able to grow alongside holiday, young, and (i guess) hawesome.

i've really been a proponent of the sixers standing pat, but if they're not gonna do that, and if they're not gonna get dwight howard, i think i'd be really, really happy to pull gordon.

Gordon makes some sense because he's good when he's ambulatory, and he wouldn't cost any picks. Gordon's a restricted free agent, though, and the Stern Hornets will probably match any offer unless the Sixers max him out. Does Philly really want to give him the max qualifying offer? I like Gordon a lot, but given his injury history, I wouldn't.

I'd take Nash on the Sixers. I think what he'd bring to play creation could be covered with the Sixers excellent team defense. It would depend what they'd have to give up to get him though.

not to throw stones at one of the best players of this generation, but he's really at his best when he's surrounded by spot up shooters and pick and roll specialists, and the sixers really lack both those things. and their best players (holiday, williams, iguodala) are at their best when the ball is in their hands--which it wouldn't be too often whilst nash is on the floor.

also, nash is 38, which is a bit of an issue if you're looking at the sixers as a long term contender.

Gordon makes some sense because he's good when he's ambulatory, and he wouldn't cost any picks. Gordon's a restricted free agent, though, and the Stern Hornets will probably match any offer unless the Sixers max him out. Does Philly really want to give him the max qualifying offer? I like Gordon a lot, but given his injury history, I wouldn't.

i would view gordon more as a trade target at the deadline than as a restricted free agent this offseason.

Sixers-Bulls was fun, although ugly on offense for a while. Sixers may not win anything, ever, with this core group, but a really impressive team to watch. They're young, athletic and can run like crazy, watching them is a lot like watching a top-ranked college team.

Wait--You'd trade for a guy who's been injured every year in the league and is actually currently out for the season with injury?

If you're talking about this season or this offseason, I think that Monta Ellis who is clearly available can help fill the "go-to" scorer need.

You have a chance at Deron Williams in the offseason. Danny Granger is available. Carmelo is probably available. I *think* that Tony Parker is available, but maybe not.

i think gordon is a better player than ellis. i think he's a better fit than granger. i think he's a better fit than carmelo. i think there's no chance the spurs let parker go after having already moved george hill. i think deron williams is a pipe dream.

also, i could be wrong about this, but i kind of think this season's injury is a phantom one. i mean, i think he's injured, but i don't necessarily think he couldn't have played through it. i think the hornets wanted him out of the lineup to aid in their tanking. and i think he knew he had an issue, so he decided just to get it fixed, instead of playing through it and potentially hurting his earning potential down the line.

and even with the injuries, i think people might be underestimating how good he has been. his first two years, he combined to shoot 45/38/80 with 16 points on 12 shots per game. last year, he was able to up his usage from 21 to 26, while still shooting 45/36/82 and scoring 21 points on 16 shots. he lost a little efficiency, but he was still really damn good from a PPP standpoint, and significantly better than anyone the sixers currently have.

plus he chipped in 4 assists per game.

again, i think there are a lot of things here that make gordon a really good fit.

i like what the sixers were doing in the last 3 minutes against rose. i think they had turner on him, holiday on him, iguodala on him, and that last play was young on a switch. young got beat by a crossover, but i think it took rose out of his comfort zone to see a different defender so often.

I don't know that it was the different defenders that slowed him down as much as the different traps. They would occasionally pick him up full court, sometimes they'd trap right after he got passed the half court line, and other times they'd try to pin him against the sideline (one of those plays results in his horrible TO when Noah turned his back, but that's still on Rose for jumping without having a passing target). I said before the first game that the Sixers should actively trap Rose, and they did for stretches; when they weren't, he wrecked havoc. They merely limited his impact for stretches last night, but the Bulls had just enough other options - although none of the other players were that impressive offensively (Watson had a good stretch running the point in the 2nd quarter, but didn't play that well off the ball with Rose; I though Rip maybe could have gotten some more burn at the end of the game when it was close, perhaps we need to credit Thibs for sticking to his recovery/re-in-shape-getting plan).

hate to tell you this, but because of this losing stretch, the sixers are only 2 games up from the 7 seed. if the heat pull ahead of you, it could very possibly be sixers-bulls in round 1.

They're still the most likely team to win their division, so they still should have a top 4 seed. As for the Bulls, they're still most likely to have the top seed - the schedule really is their friend this year.

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I agree with you about the idea of Gordon, though the Gordon in reality isn't worth trading for. Who do the Sixers give up in that deal - Turner, Vucevic and a pick? Because it's going to take something that's at least that. They would be better off signing him in the offseason (and hiring Phoenix's medical staff to keep him healthy).

Sixers-Bulls was fun, although ugly on offense for a while. Sixers may not win anything, ever, with this core group, but a really impressive team to watch. They're young, athletic and can run like crazy, watching them is a lot like watching a top-ranked college team.

i'm not gonna take anything away from the bulls win, but this season has taken a lot out of the sixers so far. their legs just are not fresh, and while i know that's an issue for every team, it's really hurt the sixers because they're so dependent on jump shots. when the legs are off the shots are off. and when a team is built on 18' jumpshots, and they start missing 18' jumpshots, it makes for a really, really ugly game.

i'm not quite sure whether to think that game was more of a fluke (because the sixers outrebounded the bulls and outshot them at the FT line) or whether to be encouraged by the fact that they can't possibly shoot worse than that if they meet in the playoffs.

it's really hurt the sixers because they're so dependent on jump shots. when the legs are off the shots are off. and when a team is built on 18' jumpshots, and they start missing 18' jumpshots, it makes for a really, really ugly game.

That, and like we all said early in the year, it's just not a good shot to be so dependent upon for long term success. The Sixers defensive success is built on making other teams take that shot; it would be fascinating to watch the Sixers offense play against the Sixers defense.

i'm not quite sure whether to think that game was more of a fluke (because the sixers outrebounded the bulls and outshot them at the FT line) or whether to be encouraged by the fact that they can't possibly shoot worse than that if they meet in the playoffs.

The Bulls just don't get pushed around on the offensive glass like that. Whether that's repeatable or not, I don't know. The game could have been officiated tighter, which would have given the Bulls more FTAs, but that's hard to count on either way.

I don't think we can make the call yet. Gordon just hasn't played enough. Sure, he's flashed some amazingly ability, but it was just a few months and the rest of his career has been not as good as Ellis, or in the trainer's room.

Weird stuff out of pdx today. The story is about vets undermining Mac, but they quote almost all the vets in describing the discord. The only guys not referenced are Felton, who we know is unhappy, and camby. Could that be enough to tank the team?

Yes. LA and Batum look all in, but Wallace has slid back, Camby is either done or not trying, and Felton is actively fighting Nate. Now, changes have to be made. But, with no GM, who's going to make them? That's a huge worry, and no one here is really talking about it - what happens if management is so disorganized that March 15 passes and nothing has happened. Talk about a guy punch.

it's really hurt the sixers because they're so dependent on jump shots. when the legs are off the shots are off. and when a team is built on 18' jumpshots, and they start missing 18' jumpshots, it makes for a really, really ugly game.

It's almost like you didn't read/can't remember the discussion on this very thread about how part of the unsustainability of the Sixers start was that having an offense built on long 2s is a really, really bad idea.

That, and like we all said early in the year, it's just not a good shot to be so dependent upon for long term success. The Sixers defensive success is built on making other teams take that shot; it would be fascinating to watch the Sixers offense play against the Sixers defense.

there's always 2k12.

The Bulls just don't get pushed around on the offensive glass like that. Whether that's repeatable or not, I don't know.

i'm leaning towards "not".

right now, the sixers really have 3 weaknesses. they're weak at the FT line (they have, by far, the worst FT/FGA ratio in the NBA). they're weak at the 3 point line (from a volume standpoint), and they're weak on the offensive glass (where the only team worse than them is the celtics).

you know the really annoying thing is that collins is so forceful about preventing turnovers**, but they give possessions away on the glass, and they give points away at the FT line. if they could sure up those two things, these late game issues they seem to have would just melt into insignificance.

**just to point this out, the sixers TOV% is .103. the 2nd best team in the NBA (san antonio) is at .129. the 29th best team (the knicks) are at .155. so, the sixers are so turnover averse that the difference between them and the 2nd best team is the same as the distance between the 2nd best team and the 29th best team. they really are playing at a historically significant level.

It's almost like you didn't read/can't remember the discussion on this very thread about how part of the unsustainability of the Sixers start was that having an offense built on long 2s is a really, really bad idea.

EDIT: [93] beat me to it.

i underestimated the effects of tired legs. i also didn't think the offense would get so bogged down that they did nothing but take long 2s. i thought holiday would be more focused on penetrating, i thought turner was actually going to be a forceful contributor. for everything they've done well, the team has definitely been a disappointment offensively.

i mean, lou has been better than i was expecting, but that's really been the only offensive bright spot since they've been playing without hawes. everyone else is either in a funk or limited by their weaknesses (for iguodala it's FTs, for brand it's age, for young it's minutes).

We're at the tip of the iceberg, too. Trust me, this stuff is going to get ridiculous. We saw presentations from video tracking in arenas, a technology still in its infancy, that will make your head spin. At some point in the not-too-distant future somebody is going to be able to model every action on the court and its marginal impact on a given possession's scoring probability, on both offense and defense, and we're going to learn all kinds of crazy things that will make today's "advanced" stats seem hopelessly anachronistic.