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I am new to this forum, and I could really use some advice. I purchased a 6' Schimmel last week, and now that I have it in my house, I am not pleased with the sound. The mid-range, in particular, sounds, to my ear, dull and one-dimensional. Looking back on my experience at the store, I realize I was talked into the purchase by a very skilled salesperson. It's embarrassing to admit, but I wasn't even planning to buy a piano that day; somehow, after about an hour in the store and playing most of the pianos in there, I found myself signing the dotted line. I had even tried Schimmels in the past and not been overwhelmed with the sound. I feel like a bit of a fool, but now I need to know what can be done about the situation.

SO -- two questions: first, to what extent can the tone be altered by a technician so I can hear the singing overtones I want and need, and second, if nothing can be done, what do you think is my recourse at the store? Thanks in advance for any advice you have to lend.

I'd start by contacting the store manager to see if you could negotiate some sort of exchange. I think I know the store you're talking about and I had very favorable results in the face of a very difficult situation.

If that doesn't work, before starting to revamp the piano to make it sound something other than what it was built to be, I'd wait for a week or two to see if it's as really as distasteful as you're perceiving it now. Buyers remorse is a very, very common phenomenon with big purchases, and I've read of many accounts of it on this forum. If it's just buyer's remorse, it usually passes within days of the purchase.

I personally love the Schimmel sound. I find the tone exceptionally clear and singing. I think it's fanatastic for Chopin and other lyrical pieces. I have a Seiler now, which I find somewhat comparable. I was playing on a Steinway yesterday, and was extremely frustrated with the dullness of the treble, and found it notable how much harder I had to play the right hand to make the melody sing like it does on my piano. Anyway, that's just my opinion, and taste in pianos is certainly very subjective.

Bottom line - if you really hate the piano, and you can't negotiate an exchange, then sell it. You'll no doubt lose some money, but it seems that in the grand scheme of things , that would be a better solution than living with a purchase that makes you cringe every time you sit down to play. Your piano should enhance your life not create angst.

I'm very sorry to hear about your experience. It must feel so disappointing to make such a major purchase and then not be happy with the outcome. I'm hoping some of the tech guys on the forum will offer an opinion as to whether the dissatisfactions you note are something that can be easily addressed with a voicing. I'm a little worried that they can't, though, and I suspect that you have simply discovered that you don't like the Schimmel sound, and that's not something that can be corrected.

I believe time may be of the essence. The longer the piano is in your house, the less motivated the dealer will be to work with you. Did the dealer carry a wide range of other brands you could go back and try, to see if any of them tickled your fancy? I suspect you will encounter little or no resistance to returning the Schimmel if you were to apply the payment to another piano in his inventory, so I echo kathyk's advice.

If that's not a realistic possibility, I would just be frank with the dealer, explaining that you had not intended to make a purchase that day and now regret it. I personally would offer to pay the moving costs (both ways) as well as a rental fee to cover the time it was in my house.

But kathyk made another great point: Do whatever you have to do to be happy with the piano you have, whatever that may end up being. If you find your stomach sinking every time you sit down to play, I'm worried that over time it will affect your enthusiasm and love for playing.

Schimmel should be a nice piano. Awfully expensive at ~28k to not like the piano though.

There are certain qualities of the tone that are inherent in the piano. Yes, certain things can be done to voice it brighter or warmer, but don't expect miracles or for the effects to be long-lasting. Better to start with a piano that already suits you.

The dealer should be able to offer alternatives, but you should give the piano time to settle and get it tuned in your home, throw a rug under it, etc. Pianos really do suffer a bit in the move and need time to adjust. My piano started sounding like crap (out of tune) very shortly after delivery, but once I got it tuned it was resurrected -- better even.

I suppose I can guess which dealer that is based on the brand and the poster's location, and if I guess right, then this dealer does have many other brands you can choose from. Taking a shot in the dark, I'd say engage the dealer and see if you can work out a deal to exchange for something else you like better.

For other dealers who post here:

If one of your customer finds himself REALLY DISLIKE a piano he bought from you within a week of delivery, what would you do? Would your first reaction be to assume some sort of "buyer's remorse" psychological factor at work and tell the customer to wait until the piano has "broken in"? Is sending your tech to work on that piano the only option you'd provide? Would you normally allow exchange for another piano, possibly a different brand entirely? Or would even a refund be a possibility?

Just curious how different dealers might handle a situation like this.

A chosen piano should be something emotionally enganging, inspiring, romantic and gladdens the heart, but if it instead hurts you, then the romance doesn't exist and it won't be there without you accepting it without condition. This thing will be your partner, so choose your partner carefully.

It's true that Schimmel is a fine brand. I played their 7' model 213 De just a couple of weeks ago, and I was more impressed with it then the 225 - 7'4 Bosendorfer when it comes to richness of sound. The Bosendorfer had superior touch, though. But the Schimmel had a fatter tone which I prefered.

However, I don't know of the 6' you bought. And I don't know how much prepping it had or not had, which is so crucial that it's not even funny. E.g. Last year I played on a brand new Steinway B at a local Steinway dealer and thought that it sounded so very awful that I said to myself, this is a Steinway?? Huh, a Korean piano sounds better then this. It was soon after that I learnt that it had not been prepped yet, usually requiring 20-30 hours as were told to me by a Steinway tech.

Anyways, if you don't like it at all, then it's better you not take the risk of to keep it and fiddle with it, then ultimately still not fully what you expected.

One concert pianist taught me something very valuable. He said, don't rely on what the piano can do for you through prepping if you don't already have an attraction for it, because the fundanmental of the piano's character, the DNA if you will, is already in place and can't be changed. You can modify things only to a very limited extent.

By that I mean, no amount of prepping will make a Young Chang to sound like a Bosendorfer, not matter how skilled a tech he is. Because the DNA of the YC is very different then a Bosendorfer.

Yes, it's true that you bought in a hurry, you know that now and what's done is done. But look into the future and see whether it's something that you can live with, which by the tone of your post, you won't. Again, don't expect prepping will suddenly make you fall in love with the instrument, which is akind to marrying someone with a flaw that you hate but thinking that person will change once you're married.

Therefore, I suggest wholeheartedly that you return it and get your money back. A week is nothing. Believe me, you'll be stuck with an expensive instrument that you'll always regret everytime you see it; and you'll see it everyday.

Originally posted by MahlerAdagio:Therefore, I suggest wholeheartedly that you return it and get your money back. A week is nothing. Believe me, you'll be stuck with an expensive instrument that you'll always regret everytime you see it; and you'll see it everyday. [/b]

This assumes that the seller sold the piano on a "trial" basis. Most sales agreements don't provide for a return and refund.

Your post leads the buyer to believe that they CAN just "return it and get your money back". That is unfair to the dealer unless those terms were offered at the time of sale.

If the dealer chooses to work with the buyer on this, (as I would), solutions may not include refunding in full.

I don't know if this will shed a light on what is happening with the piano. The problem may be agrevated by the music desk. There were a few posts on PW where members noticed a significant difference in the tome of their piano with the music desk up as compared to down. When I was shopping for a piano, I noticed exactly what you are referring to when I played a couple of Steinways, a M & H, Kawai and a AF. At one of the dealers, they actually moved the piano position away from a wall and it cleared up the deficiency. I have played several 6" Schimmels and did not notice this characteristic with any of them and own a 6'3 now. Perhaps a change of location in the room can help and try lowering the music desk.

hi there, would it not be fair to offer a flat fee for delivery, pickup and the week you had it? maybe $1,000, even $2,000. it seems to me that this should be able to be worked out, especially if the remorseful buyer is willing to pay for their mistake. i would do that easily if i felt i had made a regretful decision on that big of an item.

So sorry to hear that you are upset with your new purchase. This is something many worry about when purchasing something high end, and so personal as a piano.

Are you really not happy with 'this piano' or are you 'not happy that you purchased a piano too quickly?'

Others have given good advice.

It seems that many pianos can be voiced - worked with to make it sound better. And this, of course, is what your dealer is going to suggest. It might turn out very nice once it has been.

But, there is something I just thought of that might be different in each state.

That is:

There is a 'day' return policy. Sometimes it is 3 days, sometimes 10 days. Its called the Lemon Law when referring to used cars, I think. I am not sure how hte 'once it is delivered' works in here, but maybe some others can voice what they know about it in their state. We don't know what state you live in.

You should immediately get your reaction known to the dealer formally. You might want to only talk with the owner, not the salesperson.

It would be sad for you and the store owner, if you could not try to work things out. Of course they want to make their customers happy.

S/he might very well make you happy with either this piano, a similar piano, or even another make. Listen to the options s/he suggests, but again, get it on record soon how you feel.

Oh, and since you feel like you were pressured, maybe you should only deal with the owner now.

Just some thoughts...

Roberta

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"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

Originally posted by constance: to what extent can the tone be altered by a technician so I can hear the singing overtones I want and need[/b]

How did it sound in the store? You must have liked the sound if you picked out this piano from the others in the store. Does it sound a lot different in your home? A room that is heavily damped with carpet, furnishings, wall and window coverings can completely suck the life out of a good piano's sound.

Dealers have an interest in happy customers who spread good feelings through the community by word of mouth. This kind of reputation occurs when dealers are sensitive to situations like yours. Discuss your situation openly with the dealer no matter how hard it may be for you to bring yourself directly into an embarrassing situation. As Agathis has noted already, you may need to offer something ...a rental fee plus delivery as it were ....to be able to return the piano. The details of that are for you to negotiate with the dealer. I hope you are working with a dealer who is reputable in the sense that they do value making sure that each customer is happy with their purchase decision.

Thanks to you all for your posts. You have really broadened my perspective on this. I haven't yet spoken to the dealer, but clearly I need to steel myself to do that.

I must admit, even though it adds to my embarrassment, that I wasn't in love with the sound even at the store. I was reaching a point where I thought I might never find the right piano for me, and that I was simply being too particular, and that I would most likely love it once I got it home. The salesperson showed me a couple of pianos that I liked but could not afford, and I was literally in tears telling him that I would simply continue saving, and wait for the piano I really wanted. It was in this condition that I was somehow sold on the 6'. It all seems rather ridiculous now, but the piano search has been emotional for me overall -- it is so very important to me.

I should add that I do not blame the salesman for doing his job. I take full responsibility for what happened, and I want to do what is right. I hope that the dealer will consider it good business to see that I am ultimately satisfied with my experience there. If not I will simply have to sell the Schimmel myself at some point, as I feel now that it simply isn't the piano for me.

Which Schimmel is it? As far as I know, they don't make a 6' piano. They make a 169cm model (which is about 5'7") and a 189cm model (which is roughly 6'3").

Schimmel is sometimes described as Germany's answer to Yamaha, but with lower volume, small batch production processes. I almost bought a Schimmel, so I like its sound. I would describe the Schimmel as a clean, clear sound, but not dull. Ultimately I went for a piano with a richer singing voice, but I won't throw rocks at the Schimmel. Their quality control is remarkable ...read Larry Fine's description.

Which pianos were ones you liked but could not afford? I'm trying to get a sense of whether you just have a different preference or whether the Schimmel might not have been well prepped.

Sorry to hear about your adventure. I'll add my 2cents that I think the Schimmels are wonderfuly pianos. Our children's piano teacher swears by them and was so dissapointed and thought it was our poor taste when we didn't purchase one to. Enough about how proud you should feel about it.

Have you taken a good look at your room acoustics vs. the show room. personally we were in love with a certain piano but were forever worried about how it would end up sounding in our room. It was compounded by hearing that certain piano in a good friends house and coming away disaapointed every time. We chalked it to the unusual placement and room acoustics.

Personally you sound like a customer any reputable dealer would want to keep happy. I can't believe if you and the dealer are both level headed that you'll still find that dream piano with his help.

Steve is right; unless the buyer negotiates a trial period or return privilege as part of the purchase deal, it is entirely at the dealer's discretion whether to accept a return at all, and if so, at what "restocking" fee. Most reputable dealers, like Steve, would indeed try to work something out. And it sounds like Constance is not expecting or wanting a full refund. So I am optimistic they will be able to work something out. I'm thinking the worst case scenario is that she returns the piano (minus moving fees and rental) and has a credit that she can apply toward one of the more expensive pianos she liked the sound of better.

So I think Steve was just trying to make the point that dealers are under no legal obligation to take returns of nondefective merchandise. (I don't think the lemon laws apply to a change of heart.) And I think most of us were acknowledging that Constance should pay SOMETHING to compensate the dealer for the time and hassle of the sale gone bad. But I'm still optimistic that the situation will work out to mutual satisfaction.

One more thought: Here's a question for the dealers out there. Let's say Constance's dealer wants to work with her and take the piano back. Say it's been in her house one week, maybe two. Can he take that piano and put it back out on his showroom and represent it as a new piano? Or does he have to call it a used piano? If the latter, he stands to lose a certain amount of money (how much? maybe a lot) that probably ought to be compensated by Constance.

Constance I am so sorry about your ordeal. I actually think it happens more often then is stated. I think most people are too embarrased to admit it. Pianos are very, very hard to rely on day to day. They are wonderful instruments when they cooperate. It seems so unrealistic that we can pay $28,000 for something and have to roll the dice as to whether we'll like it or not once we get it home or it settles in a year or so. I think ALL DEALERS should have a 2 week trial period. I think if you return a piano the consumer should have to pay a restocking fee, but should ALWAYS be an option. Buying a piano is too, too stressful for most and bringing it home and then regreting the purchase is enough to cause great anxiety.

I think the industry should really take a look at how they do business.

I guarantee there are more stories like yours, but like I said, not everyone will admit it. If you get a chance for a refund, which I think you should, rent the next piano for a couple of months. I still haven't found my piano and plan on renting to purchase once I do.

Pianos are not perfect, but you shouldn't have to put up with this sort of disappointment. Please keep us informed.

Originally posted by Monica Kern: One more thought: Here's a question for the dealers out there. Let's say Constance's dealer wants to work with her and take the piano back. Say it's been in her house one week, maybe two. Can he take that piano and put it back out on his showroom and represent it as a new piano? Or does he have to call it a used piano? If the latter, he stands to lose a certain amount of money (how much? maybe a lot) that probably ought to be compensated by Constance. [/b]

Let me reverse the question:

Suppose you were interested in a 6' schimmel at a dealership. If they told you it had been sold to a customer who returned it after two weeks, would you pay the same price as one that had no history? If you would pay less, how much less?

If the dealer takes back the piano, is he obligated to disclose that to subsequent shoppers?

Remember: There was nothing wrong with the piano. It was simply buyer's remorse.

That's what makes it a tricky question. I know enough to know that the concept of "brand new" is a slippery one when applied to pianos. After all, we know we DON'T want a "brand new" piano straight out of a box; we want something that has been prepped and broken in. We also know that many of the top tier pianos will sit on a showroom floor, played by who knows how many people, for some weeks, months, years? So I don't expect, nor want, a virgin piano. But you're right, Steve, I would be a little leery about a piano I knew to have been bought but then returned by some other person. I might not insist on a lower price (I am a lousy negotiator, after all! ), but I'd probably want to build in a longer warranty or return privilege myself just to protect me against a nonobvious (nonexistent, in this case) defect.

So in the case of buyer's remorse, where the piano was returned within one or two weeks, checked out thoroughly and shown to be none the worse...well, can't say I'd blame a dealer who didn't mention the history. But as the buyer I'd want to know and would feel a little betrayed should I discover it after the fact (and I'd worry about the warranty implications).

What I'm trying to say is that as empathic as I feel for Constance in her situation, I also feel empathic for her dealer who has seen, or will see, a good deal evaporate. That's why I think there should be some compromise, which will involve Constance being out a certain sum of money (sorry, Constance!), a compromise that would leave both parties feeling not good about situation, but that it's something they both can live with.

Hmmm....if the buyer with remorse was willing to pay a "rental" fee as part of the return deal, the dealer could, I think, honestly still describe it as a "new" piano that had been rented to a private customer for one week, maybe even frame it as "the buyer wanted to rent it before making a decision to purchase and then decided on another brand." The dealer could then charge essentially the same price, maybe a token couple hundred less, equivalent to the rental fee he got out of the remorseful buyer. The new buyer is happy because he/she's happy with the piano, doesn't care if it had been played by somebody else for a week, and likes that he/she got a slight break on the price. Would that pass the legal/ethical/smell test? I think so...the buyer would be informed that the piano had been in somebody's house, but the stigma of a "returned", possibly defective piano has been avoided. Note that all this applies ONLY to the case of a true buyer's regret where there is truly nothing wrong with the piano. whaddaya think?

If a person were to buy a new car at $40,000 or at any price and was not happy with it, dealers would not take it back. In some ways, each car is a little different as is a piano and something can not be right with either to the consumers taste. I am not a dealer or in retail but the consumer has to be responsible for their decisions and actions. There is entirely too much lack of responsibility in our society and we expect the retailers and manufacturers to bail us out of our impulsive buying and mistakes. It costs the dealers a lot of money to carry an inventory and be in business. Undoubtedly, the dealer had already sent the warranty paperwork on Constance as the original buyer and now to resell it, it would be sold without a new piano warranty. I do feel compassion for Constance and her situation, but it should not have to fall back in the dealers lap. It is only out of the goodness that he would exchange it, but should not have to suffer a financial loss.The 6' Schimmel is a recently discontinued model but still a great piano with a very good scale design and are probably being offered at a good discount. Sorry for being very frank in my opinion.

Casalborgone
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 1046
Loc: San Francisco Area

Frankly, this problem sounds to me like it has very much to do with Constance's ability to communicate what she wants and to assert herself, and not so much to do with the nature of the piano business or the character of Schimmel pianos.

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MikeRegistered Piano Technician Member Piano Technicians Guild Not currently working in the piano trade.