Saturday, June 17, 2006

APC Trailer - Ren Seeks Help

It's one of those "psychodramas" I do from time to time. Some folks love them, some hate 'em.

They are based on my love of old film noir movies. Dark and rich with character. A lot of great artists worked on this-Nick Cross, Helder Mendonca did outstanding work. Eric Bauza did some killer voice work for Stimpy. Kristy Gordon painted the backgrounds-Nick did some too.

My Dad plays Ren's Dad in a scene basically right out of my life. (I didn't torture frogs though). I got caught smoking and the scene where Ren's Dad lecturing Ren and Mom crying is a reenactment of my getting caught smoking.

Bob Jaques and Kelly Armstrong's magical Carbunkle studio did a great job of animating this very difficult cartoon.

I hope no one thinks I'm condoning Ren's behaviour! I hate people who torture animals! That kind of behaviour belongs only in cartoons, not in real life.

My favorite parts of Ren Seeks Help are the unsettling moody scenes in the psychiatrist's office...with Mr. Horse's shadows puffing away on his pipe and the creepy glowing fogged windows. I find it to be a very brooding and atmospheric cartoon, especially at the beginning.

Are your parents uncomfortable that you put your real family situations into your cartoons?

i thinks this is my favourite r&s cartoon!!i laught out in a "spiting my drink" way when mr horse looks into the camara with real horse expretion an black eyes. whose idea whas that??! the surprise of that change is a genious moment in cartoon animation"" thank you for that!!

John K -- that was some of the funniest and most balls-out entertaining animation I've ever seen. Counting the days until the new DVDs are released so I can do some frame-by-frame appreciation. Glad I didn't see this in 1991, not only because I would have been terrified but also because you wouldn't have been able to make it nearly as violent as this ended up. I thought the oar scene in Man's Best Friend was bad! Oh and a post-script -- your animation history lessons really inform people like me when it comes to watching your animation. I now have a much more developed appreciation of how much work you guys put into these things.

i had a big question john about this chapter that it was never revealed and made it even more funny!!an now...in this great time that i can ask to the creator over the internet i wanna know!!WHAT DID REN DID TO STIMPY????

My favorite scenes in this cartoon are the ones where Ren is walking through the city (great paintings and camera angles) and the scenes in Mr. Horse's office (amazing acting). The dark colors look REALLY good, and I can see the film noir references you used. I really like how you used the music in this episode too!

When I first saw this cartoon, I was sad that Ren killed Mr. Horse, but at least he comes back in Stimpy's Pregnant (because he's a cartoon character).

Anyone ever seen the cartoon Ren NEEDS Help that Games Animation did?? Horrible HORRIBLE cartoon.

Woo-hoo cartoon noir! I love the BG paintings as Ren trudges through the scenes towards some form of "help". They are already dark and moody to begin with, and get a little expressionist flavour as they progress and take some interesting, rather bizarre turns.

I really like the 'Looming' shot of Ren's dad. How many of us here can recall doing something stupid evough to evoke that foreboding expression on our dad's face when we were younger! Of all the episodes that aired, this one is my favourite.

Probably the best cartoon made in the in the last 5 decades. Quite possibly the best cartoon in the entire world. I don't know, I haven't seen Altruists yet.

Eric Bazua is as good as Billy West ever was. His Stimpy sounds less childish and does well when he goes into total bitch mode. His more masculine approach to the Larry Fine impression is a bit to adjust to after hearing Billy do it for so long. Different, but just as good.

Do you like the first Beavis & Butthead cartoon "FROG BASEBALL"? I too believe that harmming animals is only funny in cartoons. Beavis & Butthead did it, Ren Hoek did it as a child:) and I'm pretty sure George Liquor dose it too right?

I've always enjoyed R&S because of the reckless audaciousness. But this cartoon is something that R&S usually isn't: it's a little difficult to watch. This has a rage to it that I'd probably find very cathartic at the right time, but rather than being funny it feels more like "smash things! smash EVERYTHING!!" It's got a dark venom that reminds me of David Firth; I'm not sure what to make of that. I like it. :)

The mouth action on Ren is really cool, it's like the first season. I think there's a Carbunkle "mouth thing". They did Space Madness, right?

Wow, that trailer for Ren Seeks Help is awesome! That Ren is one twisted individual! While I agree that cruelty towards animals is vile, there are many cartoons that I like that feature slapstick and violence involving animal characters. Has anyone seen an episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog called The Mask? That could be, in my opinion, one of the greatest cartoons made in recent years. But I might need to take that back after having seen that trailer!

kristin said:"Hey wait a second...how did you post somthing from the 17th?

Ever since seeing this cartoon on Spike TV, I thought this was one of the materpeices of Ren and Stimpy.

These dark cartoons are the absoute best. When I think of Ren and Stimpy, I think of these. Stimpy's Invention, Ren Seeks Help, and bits and peices of Man's Best Freind (Though only a small bit of it was psycological)

I’ve watched this episode dozens of times, and it may well be the greatest cartoon ever made. Everyone I’ve showed it to has laughed hysterically, and been completely amazed by it.

If this had been the first episode that aired on Spike, things would no doubt have turned out a lot different. It’s sad that people make up there mind about things before they even see them these days. Perhaps “ignorant foresight” is the brave new world that is electronic communication!

I can’t wait for this DVD to come out so that I can finally see “Altruist”!

The scene where Ren's old man stares down at him from his tower of fatherhood is terrifying, sure, (who hasn't been at the business end of that scenario?), but so was the Little Audrey (or was it Little Lulu? Or neither?) cartoon where she dreams that she is trapped on some sort of force-feed carnival ride after having eaten too many sweets. Or something like that. I was maybe 5 years old when I saw that cartoon, and it scarred me for life.

How about a spinoff cartoon titled "Bambi Eats the Placenta"? Sweet Jesus, that was funny.

do you get happy once you see a cartoon come out the way you want it to. I mean Ren Seeks Help is by far the best episode I've seen so far and If I'd have made it I'd be happy as hell 'cause you don't see cartoons like that anymore. This episode is so intense and so interesting. We get to hear and see Ren's life and why he's become the way he's always been. I got glued to my screen once he began speking about his own personal life. Hey John how did Ren meet Stimpy? That's something I've always wanted to know about.

This happens to be my favorite APC (so far). It's truely your masterpeice John. Though the other APCs like Upward and Onward and Firedogs 2 (I only saw the 2nd one)when I first seen them, they went over my head, but this one I felt had the classic connection to the old show.

I can understand that those APCs were storys from the original now, and I can totaly enjoy them now. Must be first impression I guess.

I still can't believe that the original Ren & Stimpy was made as a kids show. I consider it adult/family like The Simpsons.

I remember that my mother never wanted me to watch R&S and I didn't even know what the heck it was. Until I found it at blockbuster in 1998, I rented it, and It totaly changed the way I thought of cartoons forever.

I heard that alot of American Mothers dislike their kids watching. And I think it entertained more adults then it did with children.

I hope no one thinks I'm condoning Ren's behaviour! I hate people who torture animals! That kind of behaviour belongs only in cartoons, not in real life.

It's quite sad that you must actually say it, I can't imagine what kind of moron needs you to tell him that, but I'm sure that such a person does exist.Of the APC episodes I watched, Ren Seeks Help is by far my favorite! I love your psychodramas, as you call them, this episode is high up there, next to Weekend Pussy Hunt.

Hello Juan! you know? I like this “psychodramas”. Now that you say that there are some extracted situations of the reality, this chapter remembers to me when Ren tries to kill to Stimpy, after reading letters of fans...qué paradoxical! Sometimes you thought that your cartoons they would be exhibited in the world with as much success? you knew who in Chile, the first season of Ren and Stimpy were cancelled after some chapters?

I loved this one, especially the beginning.The already mentioned part with Ren walking through the city and the scenes with Mr Horse were brilliant (also the little scene with Stimpy crying). I found Ren's character a little too agressive, though...I'm not sure if he would actually kill someone in the classic episodes (even in Stimpy's fan club he showed a softer side in other moments). However, I accept it kind of work for the cinema noir-esque touch of this cartoon. My fave APC so far, hands down.

Were other characters like Muddy Mudskipper,the Yak, Sven Hoek or Powered Toast Man intended to be cast in Ren and Stimpy APC? I found Chief transformation into Ralph Bakshi a little weird too, I would have liked to see "regular Chief" in an APC cartoon too. All those characters are valid for adult cartoons, no one is too "childish".

I love that you use film noir as a genre to inspire cartoons. It’s a uniquely powerful fusion because you have such an intricate understanding of the strengths of both forms.

I always felt in the original Ren and Stimpys that there was so much potential for it to go in a zillion diverse directions… especially after seeing Stimpy’s First Fart/Son of Stimpy, which struck me at the time as quite markedly different in tone to any of the previous episodes, it was so touching and intense.

I guess that’s (part of) why I was so sad that it was cut off in its prime, because it really seemed to be evolving into weird and wonderful unprecedented places.

Someone said that Ren and Stimpy always seemed like an ‘adult’ show to them… I’m not sure I’d entirely agree with that. I was only twelve or thirteen when I saw the original episodes and I loved them as much as anything I’d ever seen. A lot of them were sheer fun, and a lot more entertaining to kids than… well, anything else on offer at the time. Because they were visually so funny and joyous, moment to moment, kids don’t even have to grasp the plot to get something out of them. But it also makes sense that there should be adult Ren and Stimpies too because it always had the potential to go off in that direction. I suppose what I’m saying is that it makes perfect sense that there are sub-genres within the single show, and within those sub-genres there could be subtle distinctions in the entertainment-contract with the audience… some are pure comedy, or sci fi, or borderline sex farce, others are intense psychological rollercoasters.

Any other genres you'd like to dabble in?

And I notice on here that people tend to be a little dismissive of the APC cartoons in comparison to the original series. There might be elements of nostalgia in that reaction, but my overriding feeling about it is that given yet another chance to do Ren and Stimpy, John might come up with something completely different again. I wouldn’t accept the most recent episodes as ‘the thing that it is now’ as if it were set in stone. Its defining characteristic was always creative freedom and fluid evolution. It wasn't just cheap thrills short term funny, it was suspense-fuelingly creativity gland-massagingly thrilling, dammit.

Also I'm reassured to know that you disapprove of animal torturers. In all seriousness, I think that's evident from the scene anyway, it's quite harrowing.

Interesting opinion from chloe cumming. That's only my opinion:I recognize there are elements of nostalgia in my statements, but it is also my personal taste, I like subtlety and I also think that you have to symphatize with the main character. I love Ren's vicious tendencies, but I quite like his soft side too.

Actually we see some of his soft side at the beginning of the cartoon and I love the cinema noir-esque touch of this episode. I actually think it's a very good cartoon and it's probably better than some classic ones. I still think the majority of the classics were better, but RSH is one of the best cartoons in general that I have watched in recent memory.

My problem with OAU and Firedogs 2 are simply that there are too many gags involving crap, vomit or boogers and not in a childish way. I have no real problems with violence or sexual jokes (ok, maybe sometimes I think there are too much of them talking about the series overall, not one particular episode, but I find them interesting). In fact, the gay jokes in OAU were one of the funniest part in that cartoon IMHO and they didn't go too far. It'd have been too far if we had actually watched what was happening behind the blankets (not that I would ever want to watch that).

But I'll repeat that I truly loved and enjoyed Ren Seeks Help and I like some aspects of the other episodes I've watched.

>Eric Bazua is as good as Billy West ever was. His Stimpy sounds less childish and does well when he goes into total bitch mode. His more masculine approach to the Larry Fine impression is a bit to adjust to after hearing Billy do it for so long. Different, but just as good.

Yeah, it was a sweet cartoon, but you've got to be keedink me.

How come on the Spumco forums and on here poeple often say Bauza was as good or better than Billy and on the Billy West forums everyone says Billy's Ren was better? Who are they kidding?

Jonh is it true your dad really said "Look what you've done to your poor mother" and "Is this yuor work"? Tv.com said so.

This was the first APC Ren & Stimpy that I watched on Spike TV. I thought the idea of Ren seeing a shrink was great, except for the last part when Ren went complete feral on Mr. Horse. In the previous seasons, I've watched Ren have those quiet anger moments where he's really pissed off but he talks in a soft tone and shaking (Sven Hoek, Space Madness). What did Ren do to Stimpy that was so horrible anyway?

IMHO, Ren Seeks Help was the best episode of the APC series. Everything about this episode was brilliant: the artwork, the script, and the voice acting.

Thanks for posting this, John!

-- J

P.S. - I do agree with the decision to not air this on Nick - it was a bit too dark for young children.BTW - are you preparing for your return to Ottawa? I've noticed you reverted back to the Queen's English with your spelling. :D

>>They are based on my love of old film noir movies. Dark and rich with character.<<

I've always been a big fan of these types of shows in R&S. I just wanted to say what a great job I thought you did on this cartoon once again. It's my favorite of the few APC shorts I've seen. Very rich.

Also, Carbunkle did a great job on this cartoon. The timing is very impressive.

Eric Bauza's Stimpy is pretty damn good here. I suppose he had to grow into the role. I was underwhelmed by his performance on "Onward And Upward" and I'm guessing this track was recorded later on. He "gets" the mix of what Stimpy's all about in this performance.

A very EXTREME R&S. This is actually the first time I got to see this one. I'd better get the DVDs when they come out.

Great beating sequence. You've got to do a full-on film noir, or maybe film noir with a Tarantino/Rodriquez modern angle sometime.

I just flashed on how cool the "Origins of O-Ren Ishii" animated sequence in Kill Bill Vol. 1 would have been if Spumco had done it. Yes, the anime treatment was appropriate for the movie. But what a mindblower that would have been with that kind of berserk energy behind it that's on those snippets of "Ren Seeks Help."

Oh yeah, and Katie Rice doing her take on Lucy Liu as a little girl would rock.

I was watching some old episodes of Ren And Stimpy today, i guess because i'm excited about the new DVD coming out.

I watched Fake Dad, Big House Blues, Powdered Toast Man and Rubber Nipple Salesmen. It's so funny when Mr Horse opens the door all in rubber, that's really messed up for a kids show! My favorite part is when he asks if they've got any rubber Walrus covers and it cuts in tight on the Walrus saying ''Call the police'' out of the side of his mouth, it's hilarious.

I've got to say now, as I haven't taken the time to say it before, that I'm really looking forward to the new DVD. I live in the UK so I haven't had the opportunity to see anything of the APC cartoons before now.

I'll freely admit that I've been a bit apprehensive after I heard all the whining after their SpikeTV release a few years ago -- but everything I've seen here has been fantastic.

Maybe I've grown older, just as R&S have, and can appreciate the wonderfully dark humour alongside the fantasic PUPPET! acting...

I hope this new DVD -- and the ever elusive "Ultimate" DVD -- sell well, you guys deserve it!

Eric did a great job voicing Stimpy, but in fact I think it's also the poses and animation that make the sequence at the top of the cartoon so memorable. It's easily one of Stimpy's finest performances ever.

ollie said: I don't remember Ren and Stimpy actually dieing (sp?) but they sure do get crushed, squashed and run over alot!

Sure they did. In Space Madness Stimpy presses the history eraser button. In Black Hole they implode themselves... That's all I can think of, but there may have been more in later episodes that I haven't seen.

This ep is my second fav of the APC, it's brilliant. And the ending will truly leave you a bit disturbed. I got that old fashioned feeling of "I can't believe what I'm seeing!" like when I was little and first watched R&S in a hotel room that had Nickelodeon.

Hey John, you seem to be blacklisted by mainstream animation magazines. Can you explain why?P.S.- Have you ever heard of the Chuck Jones autobiography, "Chuck Amuck"?

Jesus. Yeah, well, first, Other Anon, would you care to list ALL those "mainstream animation magazines"? Because I only know of one, and John's written numerous articles and been written up a million times in it.

As for "Chuck Amuck": gee, no--I'll bet John K. has NEVER heard of Chuck Jones' autobiography! It's well known he receives no print or visual material. and as he's only 3 & 1/2 years old he couldn't possibly remember when that came out.

Come on, man, this is stoopit. Sorry, but I'm just sick of dumb bunny queries like this. "Hey John! What pencil do you use?" "hey John, what's you favorite dessert?" "Hey John-would you ever draw my mother with a--" oh, never mind...hell, John doesn't seem to mind at all. He must be on something. Me, I hate on all these goofball sillies. : (

> Jesus. Yeah, well, first, Other Anon, would you care to list ALL those "mainstream animation magazines"? Because I only know of one, and John's written numerous articles and been written up a million times in it. <

I guess my wording was a little off. I meant "mainstream ENTERTAINMENT magazines" that mention BAD "animation" such as Family Guy, Simpsons, South Park, or all those shows "meant for kids". Sorry if you misjudged me, but I wasn't TRYING to be insulting!

> As for "Chuck Amuck": gee, no--I'll bet John K. has NEVER heard of Chuck Jones' autobiography! It's well known he receives no print or visual material. and as he's only 3 & 1/2 years old he couldn't possibly remember when that came out. <

No, I didn't mean that! I just wanted him to give his opinion on it if that book had any value to animators!You don't have to get so goddamn sarcastic, trying to bite my head off!

Okay, I'm sure you've been asked this a thousand times by now, but I just found this page after a long time of looking for Spumco anything online (after that website went down I didn't know where to go), but why the darker tone of R&S? Why go "adult"? For me at least, one of the best and funniest parts of the original Nickelodeon run was that so much of the humor was just above the kids' heads. It was just below the surface. Now it seems like the crassness is so open and obvious that it lost some of the humor derived from that. I loved the fact that it all seemed like a play on '50s culture, and some arealy morning serial. I know, it's just my opinion, but I had to ask. It's not like I'm not still an obsessive fan. I just... Why the change? When it was such a good thing, why change it? I want to hear it from the man himself. Oh, and keep up the good work.

John; I'd thought the link you had before to Amazon was an associate link you'd set up. If so, use the same link again. If not, you should join the associate program and earn kickbacks from everyone who buys using the link the associate program generates for you. Just go to Amazon.com, and on the left of the screen should be a section that says something like "Make Money". Under that, click "associates". It should explain the program. I think some other sellers may have this too, like DVDPlanet, but I'm not certain.If it works out, feel free to send me a kickback from the kickback...

Only 1 of the new episodes is "dark". As far as "adult" goes, Spike told me to do stuff I couldn't do on Nickelodeon so I revived episodes that were rejected by Nick as being too adult.

Every episode is different. The only consistent thing about my cartoons is that they are inconsistent. There's no pattern. We try all kinds of ideas. The result of that is that people who try to find a formula sometimes get something they weren't expecting and then assume that everything is different, which it isn't.

There were dark episodes in the original series-Space Madness Stimpy's Invention and Man's Best Friend among them.

I promise to make some lighter cartoons next time around. Wait'll you see the Weird Al video that Katie and I made-it's light and cute and funny (and sexy). Copernicus did the great animation.

As you can see from the comments, many people like dark episodes and there is always someone who doesn't like my latest cartoon who then assumes that everyone else has the same taste as him and then advises me to stop pleasing everyone else but the complainer.

I try to please many people but can't ever make something that every single person likes. That's why I like variety and avoid formula.

i personally think some of the APC episodes rate as the all time best, such as firedogs 2. watching stimpy play the pan flute, and ren rambling "he die, he die..." are some of the best r&s moments ever. i sure hope to see more of r&s - i say you release a new dvd every year! ;)

"As you can see from the comments, many people like dark episodes and there is always someone who doesn't like my latest cartoon who then assumes that everyone else has the same taste as him and then advises me to stop pleasing everyone else but the complainer."

Brilliant, John.

That is a point that I have also been trying to express for... god, I dunno HOW long. A lot of people are just selfish.

And you just cannot please selfish, uptight, easily offended people who think only of themselves, and no one else, and who can't just sit back, enjoy something good, without getting worked up over it.

And that's exactly why I loved the Ren and Stimpy show. When I sat down in front of each episode the first time around I never knew what kind of show it was going to be! Was it going to be sinister? obscure? a drama? happy? surreal? How were they going to look? Was Ren going to wear a hat? It was always a surprise.

I think what I like about the old ren and stimpy isn't that they're "light", but that they are childrens cartoons but with weird disturbing subtle moments sprinkled throughout...it was very exciting and shocking at the time. The new ones seem a bit more mean spirited in whole...the old ones weren't mean spirited by nature cause they were childrens cartoons.

"The new ones seem a bit more mean spirited in whole...the old ones weren't mean spirited by nature cause they were childrens cartoons.

I love the new ones but they do seem a lot meaner."

I do completly believe and always have believed that (and logic similar to it) is simply a poor excuse from those who are too easily offended by anything outside of their limited world view.

The difference between the two types of people that are too easily offended from anything they don't understand is that half of them accept that it's just their own partcilar tastes and don't go off on self centered banning cruisades.

And then there are those that do start "anti" campaings, bans and loads of other hypocritical attempts to censor and mutilate what they personall don't agree with for the sake of all others. (As if they really can speak for them).

But honestly either of these two argumants from detractors of things that they don't personally like, I believe are just poor excuses for being way too easily offended.

Uh... It's not that i'm trying to insult you, generally of course. So please don't take it that way. Hell, i'm pleased that you like them anyway in spite of that, (most of my rant was directed at the detractors in general, not you.)

But still, I think these episodes, much like anything else considered to be too "mean spirited", is simply just the personal feelings of each individual person, and a personal perception rather than a fact. Some don't agree. I for one, don't agree. I personally don't agree whatsoever.

I think the new episodes are just fine, and I also personally think that the episodes produced by Games are far meaner, jagged, biting, cynical, and many times more mean spirited than anything APC has ever produced. (This is something i've not only observed but that a few of the people working on them have admitted was intended. Ren and Stimpy get constantly abused, having their guts eaten up by worms, have vultues gnaw on their entrails, crushed, hurt, destroyed, and ravaged by lighting, often times presumably for a combination of a cheap laugh and becuase John originally created them)

I think the APC episodes are adult, but include a fair deal of pathos, sentitivity, and richer moments than anyone is willing to give them credit for. Much more, if one is willing to take a look at the relationship between Ren and Stimpy in any given APC episode, which is there, yet people can just easily ignore if they so desire to look for other points that they want to search out for and complain about.

So personally, at least I think the "mean spirited" excuse is out the window and only holds as much water as the particular viewer BELIEVES that it does.

So, while i'm glad that you enjoy the new episodes, I don't agree in any way, shape or form that they are "mean spirited" and not everyone does, either. It's all a perception of things that aren't always there and the ignoring of other things altogether.

Just something for one and all to consider before being overly hateful and negtive about the new episodes.

I just said they seem mean spirited...my opinion. You don't have to tell me it's my perception because, well, isn't that obvious? What else would it be? No one told me to write that...I'm not a moron, I don't think I'm God and that my perception is absolute truth. I just said they seem mean spirited.

I just get sick of the whole "IN YOUR OPINION" thing because what else would people be writing except their own opinions? It doesn't even need to be clarified at this point...

Thanks for all the compliments on my rendition of Stimpy. I will never be able to repeat the success of the original performance of Stimpy - infact at the time, I didn't want to because APC was a totally different cartoon than the original. But one thing I tried to do was make it my own!

The only way I can watch YouTube clips is at my desk at work, so I have to keep the sound unbearably low or off completely. Watching these clips w/o sound was really something! I admit to being squeamish about stuff like, mutilation, puke and after-birth, but the acting, animation, pantomime (call it what you will) were fascinating to watch.

"I try to please many people but can't ever make something that every single person likes. That's why I like variety and avoid formula."

That's why your cartoons are so damn interesting and entertaining John! Even film makers who depend soully on formulas for there movies have trouble pleasing everyone all of the time...Except you can at least say your experimenting and trying to do something NEW when someone is displeased...

What does George Lucas say when people have a problem with one of his crappy new films. Especially when there whole functionality is to mock and reduplicate the same old crappy films that he was doing before.

Keep up the good work John! In my opinion, this is the best cartoon you've made to date!:D