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With over 100,000 posts and 2 million pageviews, the Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board has become a valuable resource for people learning about and dealing with narcissistic spouses/partners, boyfriends/girlfriends, parents, siblings, adult children, bosses, and co-workers--as well as other sources of "voicelessness."

No pressure to write or acknowledge posts when you don't feel up to it, Tupp!

Just know somebody across the pond is sending some comfort. I like Amber's present-practice advice, too.

I'm glad you're not trying to project a perky, positive, persistent image when you are exactly NOT feeling that way at the moment. Empty is empty. Refilling does take time. Nature knows how.

Sometimes we hit bottom and bounce; other times we sit on the bottom a while. But I hope you'll consider that you just fell into a pit of depression...and seriously, please seek some ftf help. Whether it's the T or a free group nearby, don't stay alone with this as natural as doing that may feel.

(I just self-isolated all weekend for a similar though much less acute reason. Always backfires.)

I think I can relate, in a way,to what you described, Tupp. I just couldn't imagine another day of what I was doing.... It felt like my entire chest locked up, and denied energy and oxygen I needed to put one foot in front of the other. My feet knew they wouldn't move again. I'd tapped all my tanks, even my reserves, and there was nothing left when I wasn't driven by adrenaline, IME. The battles were essentially over, and that meant change.

I remember sitting back and taking stock..... what if I couldn't go through another day of doing things because I HAD TO?

What if I could choose to STOP doing doing doing in that moment? And it was a choice I could make. Any of us can make. We choose daily.

That seemed to do a pretty good job unblocking whatever had bound my chest, and lungs and oxygen supply. Things felt lighter almost immediately once I realized I'd been living from one HAVE TO to the next. Breathing felt easier. Things flowed again, opposed to my having to gut my way through, and steel myself one minute to the next. Of course there are many levels of living under siege, and steeling oneself. I'm just saying, THIS, what you're feeling, might be another level, IME.

I can still feel everything lock up in my chest and just stop.... mainly when I remember the things that bystanders did to harm me and my children. We've posted about that on this thread. You've invited a bystander into your home to assess you.... HUGE TRIGGERY TRAUMA BOMBS, BATMAN!

Just pushing through it, like we've all HAD to do in the past to come out as whole as can be managed, at some point isn't an option anymore, IME. Things change. Less pressure ON US means we expand, and take on new forms. We have to learn how to SEE the world when the tunnel vision clears, IME. Learn how to navigate in these new forms, with different chemicals coursing through us, with our vision expanding, IME.

I think you're seeing your life as it is, after a rest of sorts, but the SHOULDs and the HAVE TOs are crushing down (just the same as if you were still living under siege?) I remember FEELING that not too long ago. I do.

Without the siege, things change, even though we don't notice till they're sitting on our chests making it impossible to breath, IME.

Once my youngest dd said "I know it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense to me." She was about 5yo I guess, and she knew SHE KNEW what she said made perfect sense to her.

I don't know if what I wrote will make sense to you, but I hope it helps in some small way to bring oxygen and energy your way.

Thank you both, it is a really big help and I do appreciate it. I have just had the most amazing night out and I can't tell you what a difference it has made. It's really shown me that my biggest problem is spending so much time alone and having so little fun. It was a friend's birthday. She was supposed to be going out for dinner with her hubby, but just last week found out he'd had another affair and so she threw him out. I went round to see her at the weekend and she was absolutely heartbroken. So I suggested we went out for dinner this evening, with the kids, really just so she didn't sit in on her own.

She really got onboard with the idea so she invited some other friends as well. We went to a very nice, friendly local pub, six women and four kids ranging in age from 15 to 7. I honestly haven't laughed so much in years and I sat there thinking, this is what I want - six strong, feisty, joke cracking women, all just enjoying spending time together. The kids were so good, they really enjoyed themselves as well, we had lovely food and the girls working in the pub were just the sweetest and couldn't have been nicer - they reminded me of my younger self when I had lots of bounce and happy attitude and did a lot of pub and waitressing work.

It was such a tonic. There's no getting away from the fact I'm exhausted, or that money's tight, or that the pressure of looking after my son is getting too much for me. But this evening really did show me that there is something else out there. I don't think I've laughed like that in the last decade. It was wonderful, and we all said we ought to make it a regular thing, although maybe without the kids so we can let our hair down.

Anyway - I'm off to bed. I don't feel quite in the land of the living yet but I don't feel like throwing myself under a bus anymore either. Thank you for being there and being so supportive. I really do appreciate it so much, all of you. Thank you.

So so so tickled to hear about that, Tupp. Thank the lawd. You allowed life back in.

HugsHops

Well I think life came and grabbed me last night rather than me looking for it, Hopsie, I felt like I'd been run over yesterday and in all honesty if I hadn't been the one to suggest it (which I only did because of the situation with my friend's hubby) I would have cancelled; I really wasn't sure if I would get through the evening! But it just shows how different life can be depending on the people you have in it. There was so much talking and laughing but without anyone monopolising the conversation and endlessly talking about their problems, the laughter flowed so easily but without being aimed at anyone or having an unkind edge to it as come sometimes happen, the ladies who were drinking got merry and were happy drunks, instead of that 'oh no, she's got to the bottom of the first bottle' feeling that you have with some people. The thing I love about them is that they're the sort of people who are very open and laid back about disability which means their kids don't bat an eyelid at my son's problems, he's just part of their little crew and they all sat at their own table, three of them on devices and my son writing his stories, as he does! It was so lovely and I'd definitely go out with them again, or even have them all over to mine if I can't get a sitter. It was just such a nice experience for life to be enjoyable, rather than the endless endurance test it seems to be over and over again.

I think I can relate, in a way,to what you described, Tupp. I just couldn't imagine another day of what I was doing.... It felt like my entire chest locked up, and denied energy and oxygen I needed to put one foot in front of the other. My feet knew they wouldn't move again. I'd tapped all my tanks, even my reserves, and there was nothing left when I wasn't driven by adrenaline, IME. The battles were essentially over, and that meant change.

I remember sitting back and taking stock..... what if I couldn't go through another day of doing things because I HAD TO?

What if I could choose to STOP doing doing doing in that moment? And it was a choice I could make. Any of us can make. We choose daily.

That seemed to do a pretty good job unblocking whatever had bound my chest, and lungs and oxygen supply. Things felt lighter almost immediately once I realized I'd been living from one HAVE TO to the next. Breathing felt easier. Things flowed again, opposed to my having to gut my way through, and steel myself one minute to the next. Of course there are many levels of living under siege, and steeling oneself. I'm just saying, THIS, what you're feeling, might be another level, IME.

I can still feel everything lock up in my chest and just stop.... mainly when I remember the things that bystanders did to harm me and my children. We've posted about that on this thread. You've invited a bystander into your home to assess you.... HUGE TRIGGERY TRAUMA BOMBS, BATMAN!

Just pushing through it, like we've all HAD to do in the past to come out as whole as can be managed, at some point isn't an option anymore, IME. Things change. Less pressure ON US means we expand, and take on new forms. We have to learn how to SEE the world when the tunnel vision clears, IME. Learn how to navigate in these new forms, with different chemicals coursing through us, with our vision expanding, IME.

I think you're seeing your life as it is, after a rest of sorts, but the SHOULDs and the HAVE TOs are crushing down (just the same as if you were still living under siege?) I remember FEELING that not too long ago. I do.

Without the siege, things change, even though we don't notice till they're sitting on our chests making it impossible to breath, IME.

Once my youngest dd said "I know it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense to me." She was about 5yo I guess, and she knew SHE KNEW what she said made perfect sense to her.

I don't know if what I wrote will make sense to you, but I hope it helps in some small way to bring oxygen and energy your way.

(((Tupp)))

Lighter

Yes, it does make sense, Lighter, I think where we are at the minute has brought a huge range of (generally unpleasant) things to the fore. It's the energy required to deal with the unpleasant things (and to try to deal with them in a reasonably healthy way, instead of just drinking to the point of oblivion) whilst also dealing with day to day life which for us is hard work, lonely and usually not a lot of fun (last night being the exception!).

I feel a sense of failure. I haven't managed to cure my son's problems, or make enough money to easily pay for everything he needs. I haven't got us out of the country into a safer, more inclusive place to live where we won't have this constant fight. Our government has demonised the disabled for the last seven years and taken apart fifty year's worth of disability rights action. Approximately ten thousand disabled people have died within weeks of being declared fit for work and having their benefits taken away. Some have killed themselves. Homelessness is leaping up at a terrifying rate; everywhere you go now there are people sleeping in doorways or sat at the side of the road with all their wordly belongings in a carrier bag beside them. The British public, generally speaking, couldn't give a shit. Racism is huge here now; people openly say and do things that a decade ago seemed to be relics of a bygone time. The vote to leave the EU has already seen a huge drop in the numbers of Europeans coming here to work. The NHS and the care industry - both of which we will rely on heavily - have seen a big drop in the number of staff they have and they can't recruit new ones, because people are going to work in other EU countries instead. Local authorities have had their funding cut by as much as fifty percent in real terms in some places, which massively reduces the support they can offer. Added to which food and petrol prices keep climbing, as do charges for gas and electric. Sorry to get all political, but generally speaking the future is very. very bleak - and people keep voting for more of the same. It's a terrifying time to be a disabled person.

So that's the general background. Added to that my son requires twenty four hour care, which I've always done on my own. There hasn't been easy time for self care since he was born. I don't tend to see people unless I go out, which is difficult to do. I feel the pressure of our flat now, as it still needs decorating and carpeting, and our furniture is old and worn out. Our garden needs a lot of work and I need to patch up our van as best I can so I can sell it. Add to all of that the triggers of social workers coming into our home, and just my general frustration of dealing with the public sector who work hard to say no to you, rather than working hard to find a way to help, and having to keep explaining things over and over again, and I really just feel I'm at the end of my rope now.

But ..... last night was good. I haven't woken up feeling great, or positive, or like we've any hope for the future, but I do feel better than I did yesterday. What I really want to do is get on with writing my book about all the things that have happened over the years, but I know the triggers from that will be huge, which is why I want to get everything else settled, so that when I do it, I can just focus on that and not have to worry about anything else. I feel better than I did yesterday. Maybe I'll feel better again tomorrow xx

I agree Tupp, moments of joy don't make bleak realities any less real.They just remind me that loving and connecting with other people in general is what gives me the strength to go forward ANYWAY. Politics and insanity ANYWAY.

There will always be human happiness.

I may have told this story here, but right after 9/11 it hit me what kind of a world all our children were coming into, and I was wringing my hands and sharing my worries with a 95 y/o friend, a classics professor. He finally said, to my surprise, "You know, I agree with you. Western civilization is on its decline. But you see, that's what civilizations do. They rise, and they fall. Yet each generation finds the capacity to deal with whatever horrors it's dealt. And there will always, always be human happiness."

Remembering that -- that last line -- has been a big consolation to me at times. Politics, poverty have both hit home here where I live in acute ways. I realize that a "fresh horror" for me (9/11, Trump, resurgent racism here, and climate change near or past the tipping point) is my generation's. Previously, people had to assimilate the horrors of the holocaust and the human invention and deployment of the atomic bomb.

When I look at any handful of these generations' horrors (ours is all of the above plus terrorism) I find them each absolutely overwhelming at times. But I can still have the capacity to love my fellows, and let my heart open up to simple human warmth, kindness, and being present in that moment. Instead of only in the tragic past and terrifying future.

I don't do it often enough nor do it well. But that's what I think keeps me going. Plus, the realization that I predict negativity and don't allow for the equal possibility of good things happening. That takes me to Victor Frankl's idea of how to make meaning.

I felt joy at thinking of you being in the pub present, even though I know it doesn't fix your world.

Hops, yes, I agree with all of that - a bit more fun human interaction would make it easier for me to cope with all the things that I feel very powerless to do anything about and the inequality we have to live by. I think the changes I've seen have shocked me. I always felt very fortunate and privileged to be born into this first world country where everyone had the same rights and vulnerable people were looked after. I wasn't naive enough to think it was perfect, but when I was a teenager racism was considered naff; if was something that the older generation had because they hadn't been given enough information and it was something that everyone was moving away from. The same was true of people with disabilities, gay people, etc etc. I feel like I live in a completely different country now, one where rights are the preserve of the wealthy or of criminals with good lawyers. I am slagged off now for believing we're all equal and we all deserve the same chances. People have referred to me as 'soft' because I believe wealthy countries should help victims of war, primarily by avoiding selling the weapons that destroy their homes, ideally. My views are largely the same now as they were thirty years ago, yet thirty years ago I was considered 'normal' and now I'm considered 'extreme left wing'.

I do feel the weight of it so acutely, both the wider picture and my own day to day struggles. But a good night out, a good laugh, time with friends that only want to enjoy my company, yes, that was such a luxury and one that I want to enjoy more often, even if it does little in practical terms to help those who are bearing the brunt of the changes within our current civilization (which no longer feels civilized to me).

On a more day to day level, I've plodded through the morning getting jobs done. I've dyed my hair; I do find the disappearance of the grey hairs lifts my spirits when I feel low The sun is shining so we're going out for a walk in a little while. Our little friendly dog has moved away so we will have to find a new one to take out xx

I'm with you! I frequently write comments in the Washington Post, where at least reading others I find a host of caring, educated kindred spirits. You deserve a community of free thinking, anti-oppression people, too. I think the "village" atmosphere where you live is generally much less progressive than you are. Once your son's safely involved in college it should be a lot easier for you to find newer, larger social circles that feed and support this side of you.

Outrage and grief is exhausting but as ever, it's other people (and MOST humans are kind) who can lift us back up to our feet again.

Fwiw, I just read this quote from an interview with Brad Pitt (I'm not particularly a fan but love this quote). It seems to be saying the same thing my classics prof friend did. (He walked around thinking about ancient Greece and Rome all day, he probably actually thought in Latin.) And R&B has always been my favorite music along with classical:

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You've played characters in pain. What is pain, emotional and physical?Yeah, I'm kind of done playing those. I think it was more pain tourism. It was still an avoidance in some way. I've never heard anyone laugh bigger than an African mother who's lost nine family members. What is that? I just got R&B for the first time. R&B comes from great pain, but it's a celebration. To me, it's embracing what's left. It's that African woman being able to laugh much more boisterously than I've ever been able to.

Embracing what's left. I guess the secret is in feeling the presence of what IS (left). When I can spend hours reviewing what's gone or never arrived.

I need to think about this more. A lot more. Preaching to myself, Tupp, but your thread has helped me ask myself some of the same questions you're dealing with.

Just going to let this ramble out... it's a musing... about what I know, from what I've been through.

Life is a gift. No matter how much one has lost, suffered - the intensity of it; the endlessness of it; no matter what. Life always has beauty in it (see: Navajo "Beauty Way"). Even when emotionally, we've shrunk our vision down into our immediate experience of wretched moment to fearful moment to uncertainty. Life does it's own thing; it's always got beauty in it - whether we're seeing it or not.

When I have those moments of paralysis - should I or shouldn't I? or Fear - if I say/do "X" then I fear these consequences.... (which are ALWAYS based on a set of circumstances that don't exist anymore except in my mind)......... when this happens, Life doesn't change. My ability to tune in and see/feel/hear the beauty in it does. There is even beauty in sadness; grief.

This is not to in any way say that there's something wrong with us, during those times we just can't tune in. We're human; sometimes we CAN'T - for whatever reason. But we can nurture the desire to tune in... so that we return to that wavelength easier & quicker. Over much practice... many days... trying & failing & trying again.

There's "treasure" in getting to know one's losses; seeing it from as many sides as possible; knowing one's own grief... and darkness of soul times. But I don't think we're meant to stay there. I wouldn't willingly CHOOSE to stay there... so I assume it's possible to move from that to a different "frequency".

Do you think it's possible to dump your entire life and start again? Just shout "bollocks!" to every problem, every doubt, every bad experience and go back to the beginning to start over?

I have spent the last three days either paralyzed on the sofa, feeling so angry I could stab someone, crying in a heap on the floor or wishing I was dead. I am so sick of this happening to me, no matter how hard I work at it, how much therapy I have, how much effort I put into managing it or controlling it, there are still times when it knocks me sideways and I literally feel like I have no control over my brain, or my emotions.

And that got me thinking about my younger self. That poor, lonely, frightened kid who desperately wanted to fit in, and feel loved, and be like the other kids, but who was geeky and awkward, clever but hid it because it wasn't trendy, whose ideas and hopes and dreams were always laughed at and ridiculed and had to cope with her father's death without any support and the subsequent abuse by her stepfather without letting anyone know, because her primary aim was to protect her mum?

I can remember the dreams I had for myself and what I loved to do - music, both playing and listening to, dancing, singing, acting, writing, theatre, art. I wanted to make my own clothes, learn about stage make up, make costumes. So many things and the encouragement was always zero. The lady that lived down the road from us used to tell me how much she enjoyed listening to me play my clarinet while she was sitting in the garden in the evening; she said it was like being at a concert without having to leave the house. My mum used to say she was a sad twat with nothing better to do. Why are we so influenced by the negative comments and much less so by the positive ones?

So is it possible? Can you through it all away and go back to those childhood dreams and start doing things that you enjoy, just because you enjoy them? Can you fit that in with kids and work and money issues, and things like dealing with the shitstorm that was waiting in my inbox for me this evening and the snotty lady I had to speak to on the phone earlier? I'm drinking to cope. I feel completely dead inside. Every nerve and every part of my brain is screaming at me to run and never come back to this. Can it be done? Can you merge the past with the present and erase the bad bits so they don't keep coming up over and over and driving you insane?

Do you think it's possible to dump your entire life and start again? Just shout "bollocks!" to every problem, every doubt, every bad experience and go back to the beginning to start over

Asking myself this, my answer is No. I don't believe I can do that. I understand the longing, for sure.

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thinking about my younger self...

Me, too, from time to time. But less, these days. Her anguish simmered inside me until I was well into my 50s. During the last decade, I've been so intentional about deliberate self-compassion, especially for the sad/lonely child within me, that I think she's begun to let me go. To allow me to live in my present age, without calling to me, Come and rescue me from what happened! She knows I can't (she was smart) and she has now kind of blended into me. Not just her pain but her insight, joy, sweetness, perceptive observation, compassion.... she was more than her pain and victimization.

I think I just had to convince her that over time, I was going to love her, more and more kindly, more and more gently, more and more deliberately and patiently. Love her so well that ultimately, she could be free to let go of her place in my psyche, and yield more space for my present adult, who is less traumatized than she was.

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Can you through it all away....

I don't believe I can undo my memories but do believe I can learn not to live inside them

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and go back to those childhood dreams

I don't believe I can go back to them as a child would...

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and start doing things that you enjoy, just because you enjoy them?

In the present, as my adult self, I absolutely believe I can do this, ONE thing at a time...

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Can you fit that in ....

Oof. That's a very hard one and maybe the crux of the whole stress that can melt me down sometimes. And I have way less stress than you do, Tupp. I think with enough loving support of yourself, caring about yourself, getting HELP so you're not alone with yourself....yes you can fit (some of) it in. Not all of it, of course. But more. And I truly think despite how it feels this week, that you are going to a place/space/time when there WILL be room for you. And some of your dreams.

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Can you merge the past with the present and erase the bad bits so they don't keep coming up over and over and driving you insane?

For me, the bad bits haven't been erased. I know that they came up over and over for many years. For me, the only thing that began to feel different than this cycle (which I too was in) was after that intentional encounter with my inner child self I've mentioned here so many times. When I "met" her and gave her love, and promised to never abandon her again...she began her healing. And I mine.

That's what merged. Not the bad bits evaporating, but as the bad bits' healing continues, the present good bits began to have more oxygen. So now they grow or radiate more easily. I can (not perfectly or consistently) more often feel balanced between present-good, past-bad, present-bad-but-not-actual-helpless-childhood, past-is-like-a-novel (I can ponder the characters with more distance now)....etc.

That last mishmash of a paragraph is pretty much my estimate of what the reality would be, for me, of wishing to

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throw my old life away and start anew, all dreams intact.

Modified dreams, and learning to love them. That's what life is more like now. Making peace with it all, and then slowly moving beyond peace to gratitude.

I'm very sorry for this triggered bout of anguish Tupp...it's so very understandable.

Tupp, when I was talking about not having to do anymore.... I was talking about what had become of my life under the pressure of unfair, improbable, completely insane pressure from people who should have been supporting and caring for us in our lives.

Simply getting through my daily ablutions.... chop and carry wood... was usurped emotionally by the struggle, and sometimes those perpetrating it.

Once things calmed down, I had to tease apart what was IT/the struggle, and what was us/me again. Me/US without the struggle was something I wasn't used to. I hardly remembered what it was until I was there, feeling my face pressed against the glass, trying to SEE us again without struggle, kwim?

I think saying to myself.... I don't HAVE to do anything anymore, ever, was me putting down the struggle, then deciding what parts of my life I would pick back up. I didn't choose to pick up my life framed in the old struggle. It was a visceral difference FOR ME. Sure, my life was in pieces. It still is, frankly, but just like you having that lovely night out with friends.... things start coming back. Joy presents itself again. We FEEEL hope, and better things slide into our lives, but on their own terms, in their own time. Not in gulps and gasps, but what it once was, IME. It's familiar. It's a huge sigh of relief, IME.

I'm sorry you aren't residing in the glow of your night out with friends. It was lovely. I remember how it made me feel just to read about it.

Lately I've been listening to music from the 80s, and days, and events come sliding back in. Days I would otherwise never think about again. I can honestly say it FEELS really good to feel that young again. I remember that I had different dreams, and energy, and strengths that have perhaps grown dim, and it's a happy thing for me. I sing LOUDLY in the car. I sometimes sing angrily, or softly... and I think it helps to just get things OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT.

You're not alone much. You've been controlled for so many years, putting up a sane, strong, consistent front for your son. When do you get to beat your chest and HAVE your emotions? Let them out, and give them voice?

You never get to put yo0urself first. After so many years of running on empty, THIS crisis is a messenger, IME. It's drawing your attention. Giving it mindful care is painful. Growth is painful.

You can't go back to being a child. You can't change what's happened, but you can learn from it, seek joy now, and build on lovely times for yourself. Remember the night out with friends, and know there's more. Lighter