Yeah, I think they would have or at least called an animal shelter to help the animals. But it still bothered me to see the animals in oil as a reporter stood not even 5 feet from these helpless birds without *seemingly* doing anything. It really upset me to see the ocean wildlife suffer from this oil spill.

With you standing here I could tell the world what it means to loveTo go on from here I can't use words, they don't say enough

Predators eat sick animals only, because these are the ones they can catch. They don't have any problem in eating healthy (mostly young) ones. Animals kill also to conquer or to protect their territories, to dispose of the offspring of their rivals. Or for no (for us understandable) reason at all. Ever seen your cat playing with a mouse or young bird?Instead of sentimentally lamenting how cruel humans are, we should ask ourselves why do we drive a car, how often do we travel by plane, how often do we visit one of those stadium concerts? I think that is a much better approach to save our planet.Journalists and photographers are just doing their jobs, drawing our attention to the absurdities of our consumerism and the policies of big companies. We would be happily ignorant of the consequences of oil drilling, if these guys had chosen to save a few birds more.

Last edited by redrabid on Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't have a car, not even a driver's licence. I travel by public transport or by bike.And, by the way, I meant: Do you know how much energy is needed for each of those mega concerts (sound, lighting, travelling). For all those eco conscious Big Bands there is only one way to go: Play only accoustic concerts. But that would spoil the fun too much, don't you think?

Last edited by redrabid on Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

redrabid wrote:Predators eat sick animals only, because these are the ones they can catch. They don't have any problem in eating healthy (mostly young) ones. Animals kill also to conquer or to protect their territories, to dispose of the offspring of their rivals. Or for no (for us understandable) reason at all. Ever seen your cat playing with a mouse or young bird?Instead of sentimentally lamenting how cruel humans are, we should ask ourselves why do we drive a car, how often do we travel by plane, how often do we visit one of those stadium concerts? I think that is a much better approach to save our planet.Journalists and photographers are just doing their jobs, drawing our attention to the absurdities of our consumerism and the policies of big companies. We would be happily ignorant of the consequences of oil drilling, if these guys had chosen to save a few birds more.

I agree with what you said there.

It's so unfortunate that we look to other things for blame to the way our planet is right now rather than looking at our own lives. I'd LOVE to travel by bike or walking - it's healthier (something the average American need more of, imo), it reduces stress/anxiety and depression, and it's also nice to look at nature. It would also reduce our need for oil, it would get us away from being electronically hooked up all the time, and I think it would help us all to get in touch and work WITH our environment rather than working against it.

With you standing here I could tell the world what it means to loveTo go on from here I can't use words, they don't say enough

oldblue wrote:well if sitting around watching footage of people kill each other doesn't bother them what's a few birds

Unfortunately, you're right.

What experience do you draw on to make that remark?

I've known war cameramen and editors and most of them have only various forms of mental illness to show for it. They are usually freelance, so no health plan when PTSD sets in, they just have to get on with it or get out somehow. I know a film editor who was so traumatised by the official films of WWII he suffered depression the rest of his life. A cameraman had a fixer blown apart beside him, and another dragged away by rebels never to be seen again, until the family were told where to find what remained of his corpse, he still has nightmares after 20 years.

The reporters, cameramen and photographers in Vietnam (as well as the networks that showed the footage) are responsible for the erosion of public support for the war. They formed the democratic link in the story. So much so that news media access is now an essential part of military planning. As demonstrated by the British during the Falklands Conflict.

Even 'domestic' news crews find themselves on the front line when the politicians screw up. UK TV crews were at all the riots, strikes and terrorist attacks of the 70s and 80s: Trafalgar Square, Iranian and Libyan Embassies, Brixton, Toxteth, Tottenham, Orgreave as well as for 30 years in Ulster. As far as I'm concerned these guys are real heroes, and are deserving of our respect, not casual defamation.

If it takes yet another image of an oil soaked bird to wake us up to the price we pay for our dependence on oil, then so be it. Incidentally, it is recognised by most wildlife charities that it makes more sense to use volunteers to clean up oil off the beaches, fewer than 5% of heavily oiled birds survive the trauma of the cleaning process. There is no data showing how many then go on to breed. The cleaning of birds is essentially palliative.

Animal cruelty/murder: in a herd/pride situation, the new dominant male will often kill the offspring of the vanquished male. It is projecting his genes forward successfully that matters, read Dawkins: "The Extended Phenotype". Genetic survival determines animal behaviour, it is a sometimes complex effort/reward equation when hunting prey.

Incidentally RR, the carbon cost of a concert is overwhelmingly made up of getting the crowd there and back and most bands offset their carbon cost these days anyway (whatever that signifies). Much better to download a few tracks and listen at home, and certainly you shouldn't buy any nasty polluting vinyl!

Sorry to be pedantic but:" Sometimes a male lion like to kill, but NOT for food ! "

The lion doesn't LIKE to kill anything. As far as we can tell, only humans have that distinction. In this situation the lion is ensuring that the pride's energy in hunting is only used to perpetuate his genes, not any other lion's.

Look at your newspapers, it is sadly not unusual for a male human to kill the child of another male human, either by neglect or deliberate act. As a stepfather (or 'boyfriend'), often with the birth mother's complicity. Extreme yes, but by no means unusual.The lion has genetics to explain his behaviour, the human male none.