Weeeelllll.......if I'm not mistaken......a scene in the AxeFx is switching in and out different effects or effect settings within a preset, call it A1. You can load an array of effects and use any combination of the effects on or off and recall them with a single footswitch...the switch is seamless with no drop in sound since the preset (amp) is not changing

On the M13, the scenes basically do the same thing as far as letting you switch to a totally different sound with a single stomp, but there is a drop in sound since the actual preset (A1,A2) is changing....so....yeah...

^^^ pretty much this, yeah. Think of presets as "virtual" pedal board/amp/processing setups. Think of Scenes as a way to engage or bypass those individual stomps/processors/amp channels, etc. within that preset.

The idea is that presets need to "off load" the old data and "up load" the new data when you change a preset. This creates a lag that varies depending on the complexity of the preset created. Since Scenes happen within the preset, there is really nothing to clear/reload, but rather, you switch things on and off, which is much less intensive a process to execute, thus the changes happen much faster.

I use an AxeFXII and the ability to do scenes was a big selling point for me.

This is exactly how I do it on my Axe and maybe it will help you understand how they work. My main patch is a distortion amp (amp x) and a clean amp (amp y). I also have some basic effects in my signal chain. A light delay, a longer delay, an EQ used for solo boosting, a chorus, a compressor (always on), light reverb (always on)

So what I do is this:
Scene 1 is my main rhythm tone. It is programmed to have my distortion tone amp and no other effects.
Scene 2 is a solo tone: Same a scene 1 but with the simple delay and the EQ turned on
Scene 3 is an "effect" sound: Same as scene 1 but with the longer delay and some other effect like maybe flanger turned on.
Scene 4 is clean/effects: The clean amp is turned on. Long delay and the chorus
Scene 5 is clean: Clean amp turned on. Chorus turned on

Think about it like this: Most mutli-FX units only allow a person to store say 100 custom patches. All of the above scenes would have to be their own custom patch. But with the AxeFX and scenes, I create ONE patch with all of these effects available in the patch and I can turn them on and off as I see fit by using different scenes. The AxeFX allows a single patch to have up to 8 different scenes. (I only ever use 5 because it matches the first 5 rows of buttons available on my MFC-101 midi foot controller.)

So one now would think well, let me create a patch with tons of effects in it and just use scenes. Well, you can but the problem is that now you are taxing the CPU of the unit. I like to create patches that are based on my main rhythm tone and then set a "theme" to my patches. For example, the one main patch I use all the time is very basic with mainly just distortion/clean and solo boost tones. But if I have a song where I know that I will be using say a whammy effect, I will create a new patch that is a copy of my main patch. I will delete effects that I know will not be used and then add in the whammy effect and set a scene on that patch for when I will turn on the effect. I'll name the patch accordingly.

That's a great approach and I like how you both describe what you did but why. IMHO, the scenes vs. presets allows for gapless switching of 'a lot' of stuff vs. just turning on/off things one at a time and zero lag or 'gap'.

One of the biggest reasons to own/use the AFX IMHO is also highlighted in this discussion; you can set it up to be/do anything you want (within reason) based on your own needs/wants/desires. I don't set my AFXII rig up that way; but it highlights that you craft your rig, routing and switching to meet your own personal needs. It is not 'one size fits all'.

Personally I use Scene 1 and 2. Scene 1 is my 'rhythm' tone for a given amp (in my setup, most of my presets only differ by the amp/cab choice in that preset). Scene 2 is a complimentary tone amp/cab choice that I often might perfer or use vs. the Scene 1 choice. I do my solo boosts via IA switches in a wholly different way than other people do.

But it serves the purpose in this discussion to say that scenes allow you to change the state of more than one block both instantaneously and seamlessly. Changing presets *can* be the same thing if you set it up that way, but there is a small but real gap between the presets in a few microseconds. Scenes remove that and also allow for a very natural spillover at the same time within the scenes if you use long delays or reverbs in a very transparent manner.

makes sense, I get it. My yamaha EX synth actually has a SCENE 1/ SCENE 2 button that works in a similar fashion...didn't even think about it until I read the replies to my Q. I also used to use the CTL pedal on my old Boss GT-3 in a similar fashion to scene toggling. You could map a few different parameters to toggle between values when the CTL was pressed. May have been able to setup SUB1/SUB2 to do this as well, but I never tried.

I understand what you're describing, but I don't see how it's fundamentally different than what I do with the manual mode in Boss GT's. For any given present (the base sound), you can designate 8 "assigns" which are either a) effects turned on/off, or b)various parameter changes for an effect. A single button press can do multiple operations (like longer delay time + chorus on) without changing the base tone or leaving the preset.

Am I missing something or is a "scene" just different terminology for equivalent functionality? I'm just trying to understand it properly because I pay attention to the discussions for the big boy units in the event that I someday make the move.

I don't see how it's fundamentally different than what I do with the manual mode in Boss GT's.

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I used to do similar stuff with my GT. I think it's the same in effect, just different in the way the user implements it. Instead of having to manually set a bunch of assigns to the same trigger, the scene just says "here's a trigger, now assign a bunch of parameter toggling to it".

Between this and the LFO thread, I'm really missing the cool control stuff I could do with my old GT-3 today. There were things I didn't like about the sound of that unit, but the control aspects were great with the assigns and wave pedal, and CC mapping.

I understand what you're describing, but I don't see how it's fundamentally different than what I do with the manual mode in Boss GT's...........Am I missing something or is a "scene" just different terminology for equivalent functionality?

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I used to own a Boss GT5 way back. Yep, basically the same thing. Fractal just called this concept "Scene"

In a nutshell, it is just being able to manipulate one patch to do multiple functions instead of having to have separate patches for everything.

What makes the AxeFXII so much fun is the freely routable 4x12 grid and the ability to have so many iterations of different effects available at very high quality. Scenes become very appealing as a work flow because of this. I moved to the AxeFx from the TC G-force, and it's like having 2 or 3 of those in one box...and then some.

I understand what you're describing, but I don't see how it's fundamentally different than what I do with the manual mode in Boss GT's. For any given present (the base sound), you can designate 8 "assigns" which are either a) effects turned on/off, or b)various parameter changes for an effect. A single button press can do multiple operations (like longer delay time + chorus on) without changing the base tone or leaving the preset.

Am I missing something or is a "scene" just different terminology for equivalent functionality? I'm just trying to understand it properly because I pay attention to the discussions for the big boy units in the event that I someday make the move.

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In scenes you don't change the "assigns" of the individual effects--each controlled effect is still controlled by its usual switch and you can turn effects on or off within the scene in live use with those switches. It's also much easier to set up than Boss's assigns--you merely select the scene number, turn the desired combination of effects on or off and save the scene.

And there's more.
For example, many effects in the Axe-Fx have a X and a Y state. You can set the X or Y state per scene.
Clever people also discovered advanced scene tricks, like changing the pitch of a drone tone per scene.

In scenes you don't change the "assigns" of the individual effects--each controlled effect is still controlled by its usual switch and you can turn effects on or off within the scene in live use with those switches.

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This part is the same as Boss' manual mode -- The function of each of the pedals is fixed globally so that they do the same thing in every preset. (Actually, I may have read that in the newer GTs they can be set differently for individual presets, but that sounds like it'd be crazy confusing for live use. I'd screw that up for sure).

Didn't really see it explicitly stated anywhere, but on the M13, a scene is essentially the same thing as a preset. On the Axe FX, if I understand correctly, scenes are kind of like presets within presets. In other words, the word is being used differently by different manufacturers.

With the Kemper a "scene" is called a "rig". with a signal chain or tone path.

Each component of the chain can be brought into focus for deeper editing. That's pretty true for all these kind of products. It's just that the Kemper and Axe 2 does it way better than the less expensive products.