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Seems like its only one spot between us, Chelsea and Liverpool now. Hopefully the club will react this window and strengthen the team or lose that spot. We all know Arsenal always react to how much of danger losing the fourth is, so in that way its actually good for us that Spurs is winning

I acually want us to miss the CL.....we need to change the just about mentality and if it takes us missing out on cl and suffer few more years, then I take it.

Spurs have done their suffering and worked their way up, you gotta admire them. Right now they are more ambitious and serious football club than us and Im not in denial like some arsenal fans to say this

Spuds seem to know what they want and are slowly building it. Our baord know what they want and are slowly strangling us. And captain Wenger is at the helm, sailing the ship. LOL. We are heading one way with the current set-up. As much as I hate to say it, we have had this coming for years.

Il tell you something else that is worrying me like hell now.man city looked in a right mess tonight really poor and bloody spuds have got them in a couple of weeks.god forbid they turn them over il hang meself

Looks St Totts day will be postponed this year. Their probably the most consistent team In the league this season, they kept their best players and made decent additions. They maybe small time, but they have ambition and you can't fault them for that.

This month should confirm whether or not we're still an ambitious club.

It's looking like Chelsea and Liverpool are our main rivals for top four at the moment and both will most definitely add quality to their sides because they need it and they want top four - if we don't follow suit then I'm not convinced we want it and it's a massive gamble by Wenger to rely on the squad as it is until May and one that will almost certainly not pay off.

We can't win titles and now we are in danger of losing CL spot and worse spurs could be finishing above us. Is that the kind of progress wenger said we have made? What good did we get for moving to the emirates? Oh I know. To compete for the 4th spot and gain more money

We are never going to catch spurs, the power balance has shifted and I completely agree with hippo. Spurs are now the more ambitious club they have a better balance of players than we do especially in midfield, a board who want to win things not just fall across the line and the willingness to bankroll their ambition and a manager who has the strength of character to stand up to his bigger players and hold them to their contracts.

It has not just happened over night, we have gradually been getting worse whilst Spurs have gradually been getting better over a period of 7 years but since 'old twitchy' got the job the acceleration of this trend has become noticeable.

There will be no CL for Arsenal next year, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Utd and Citeh will all bring in at least one or two quality players to add to what they already have whereas we will not, why ?

Because Hazard, Gotze and players of this ilk will all be getting offers from the top clubs in Europe offering CL football and Arsenal will not be able to offer them the same but even more obvious than that is the fact that we no longer even so much as bid for top quality footballers anymore and the fact that by that time it will be too late even if we do because we will have nothing to offer.

The board at Spurs will not miss this opportunity to hold onto their CL spot, they are supporting their supporters who pay a damn sight less than ours do to watch their club play and yet invest a damn sight more than our board does to strengthen their team.

A blase attitude from the board has led us to the bottom of this pit and its going to take 4 or 5 years to pull ourselves out.

For all of the Arsenal supporters on this site who claim that this is not the case not one of them can articulate why they think they are right and amusingly enough they resort to faith based arguments in lieu of any facts even though these are mostly the same posters who argue there is no God........................................................................................................................................................................................................... Oh well !

Billy you have got it right 100%
But because we are telling the truth we are called grumpy, well I will be less upset than all those with high expectations.

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Brilliantly said Billy especially the end.The Blind-faithers will be as much to blame as the Board itself and they know it now hence they will never admit anything until they absolutely have no choice brecause they have to preserve their reputations as much as the Board's now I sense.

Like I see they will only give up on their faith when it is proven 100% wrong even though they never needed 100% it was right to justify their faith in the first place. To them 50% or 70% or 90% evidence suggesting the Board acted improperly is 0% evidence becaus ethey placed 100% blind faith in the Board acting properly and cannot bear taking resposnibility for that choice now.

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Yes Merlion and how many quality players did we have in our squad when we pipped the Spuds in 2005/06 ?!

We had Hleb, Henry, Van Persie, Fabregas, Flamini, Ashley Cole, Robert Pires, Jose Reyes, Jens lehmann, Freddie and the King, Dennis 'the menace' Bergkamp to name but few and who exactly do we have now that could even get into that first team ?

Whats funny flava?
The current rvp records place him the second best striker of all time in a single year, i'd take him over the henry of 2006 who was bracing to go to barca.
Bergkamp of then was very old and retired, atleast the current henry is stilly playing and of course scoring.
Hleb just started with us then as did gervinho now. They both couldnt score, but while hleb was very injuryprone and ineffective in his first season, gervinho has scored and created more and has been a better impact player.
Flamini was rubbish in the middle, he only did well at leftback in the second phase of the season. Coquelin has done equally well so far and is the better footballer.
Lehman was worldclass that year but it doesnt matter when we've got a keeper who is envy of all now.
The fabregas of that year was very good but we wouldve had a better player in wilshere if not for injury. Ramsey is still ok.
Ljungberg then was finished and he left the club the very next season, i think walcott now is better.
Reyes is the only player we dont have now as chamakh and arshavin are quite rubbish.

Funny thread.
Stand out Delusional quote has to be sandys idea that Liverpool will get 4th place!
That said, there's a lot of ridiculous posts here.

Couple of things, folks, I didn't actually think that Wenger will wrap up his trophy hunt as early as mid February and go for his most coveted and prized trophy of finishing in top 4.

Well, although, it might appear to all of you Wenger has successfully Resurrected his colossal career on Robin Van Parsie's incredible run, but folks don't get too excited, I still see major twist in that most coveted 4th spot trophy chase.
The reason I think so is, everyone is accountable and someone sets their target but Wenger is unaccountable and sets his own target which has been happily accepted as mega-success by the AKBs, year after year.

Philly, as far as Liverpool is concerned they already win one and in the running for another one.

It's an achievement because we were left in the lurch with Nasri and Fab leaving, had to deal with our worst ever start living memory, and then shake it off and claw our way back to where we are. That's not exactly a cake walk.

Where we are btw is 3 points clear of a team that just fired a manager more expensive than any player we've ever signed.

If you want to be a Chelsea fan and get a new manager every 8 months go be a Chelsea fan.

If you want to see huge signings every summer when your squad is already bursting go be a Citeh fan.

If you want to overpay on English talent just to say "hey, we're trying" go be a Liverpool fan.

For my money we're doing things the right way, it's not as instantly gratifying sometimes and we've certainly had our rough spells but so does every team. Don't call yourself a fan unless you're willing to stick with them through their highs and lows, and I don't think we're near as "low" as the media and popular opinion make us out to be.

It's an achievement because we were left in the lurch with Nasri and Fab leaving, had to deal with our worst ever start living memory, and then shake it off and claw our way back to where we are. That's not exactly a cake walk.

So it's achievement this year cos Nasri n Fabregas left last year!! It was achievement cos William Gallas, Eduardo and who knows who else left a year before!! It was an achievement cos Mathieu Flamini and Hleb left the season before that year before, it was an achievement cos Henry left a season before that season before!! Well it's always an achievement!

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If you want to be a Chelsea fan and get a new manager every 8 months go be a Chelsea fan.
If you want to see huge signings every summer when your squad is already bursting go be a Citeh fan.

If you want to overpay on English talent just to say "hey, we're trying" go be a Liverpool fan.

As far as the above statement is concerned I'm a football fan probably before even you were born and by football fan I mean real match going football fan of real football club who has produced footballers from scratch the world could never forget and we were never bothered about cult worshiping be it football players or managers. Probably, you need to think better reasons than that to advice me of supporting few more teams as glory hunters of a money bag league.

So it's achievement this year cos Nasri n Fabregas left last year!! It was achievement cos William Gallas, Eduardo and who knows who else left last year!! It was an achievement cos Mathieu Flamini and Hleb left the season before, it was an achievement cos Henry left a season before that season before!! Well it's always an achievement!

Gallas wasn't that great, and Eduardo was a shadow. Flamini and Hleb have gone on to show how great they are with their subsequent careers. Birgmingham City and the Milan bench are ever thankful, I'm sure.

Nasri and Fabregas were the absolute heart of our team. Nasri got a bit more hype than he deserves, but is still immensely talented. Fabregas goes without saying. As important as RVP, maybe more.

So yes, them leaving right before the season started hurt a bit. Take Yaya and Silva, Nani and Young, Lampard and Mata, hell even Tiote and Cabaye out of a given team and tell me how well they do.

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As far as the above statement is concerned I'm a football fan probably before even you were born and by football fan I mean real match going football fan of real football club who has produced footballers from scratch the world could never forget and we were never bothered about cult worshiping be it football players or managers. Probably, you need to think better reasons than that to advice me of supporting few more teams as glory hunters of a money bag league.

You can be a crusty old bas.tard and still be wrong. I don't really care how old you are.

Gallas wasn't that great, and Eduardo was a shadow. Flamini and Hleb have gone on to show how great they are with their subsequent careers. Birgmingham City and the Milan bench are ever thankful, I'm sure.

So you are saying there aren't any proper reasons to describe the earlier seasons of finishing 4th as achievements then? I'm SURPRISED!! THERE HAS TO BE SOME REASONS, I'm sure, I'm missing something??

** Hey, Wenger said finishing 4th is as good as winning trophies, how the hell the AKBs don't agree with that??

** Being AKBs are not easy, you need to have some reasons handy to describe their man's gigantic achievement as success at every opportunity, be it sacking of a manager of some other club or someone winning a TIN cup!!

Mad JensIt's an achievement because we were left in the lurch with Nasri and Fab leaving, had to deal with our worst ever start living memory, and then shake it off and claw our way back to where we are. That's not exactly a cake walk.
Where we are btw is 3 points clear of a team that just fired a manager more expensive than any player we've ever signed.

If you want to be a Chelsea fan and get a new manager every 8 months go be a Chelsea fan.

If you want to see huge signings every summer when your squad is already bursting go be a Citeh fan.

If you want to overpay on English talent just to say "hey, we're trying" go be a Liverpool fan.

For my money we're doing things the right way, it's not as instantly gratifying sometimes and we've certainly had our rough spells but so does every team. Don't call yourself a fan unless you're willing to stick with them through their highs and lows, and I don't think we're near as "low" as the media and popular opinion make us out to be.

Up the Arsenal. AFC for life.

and we've played some fantastic football even during the last few trophyless years.

@Sandy: We've done much, much better in the EPL in seasons past. By that I mean immediate past.

This season is almost the polar opposite - starting poorly and finishing (hopefully?) strong. There's a lot yet left to play for. Since our current squad (Arteta, Mertesacker, Santos, etc.) have been available we've done fine. Look at the team sheets for the United game, for example.

You say AKB, I say practical. It's a nice soundbite, but when you look at how many managers have failed to do what Arsene has for one season, let alone a dozen, perhaps you can gain a greater appreciation.

A week ago Arsenal were in rapid decline and Tottenham were the best team in London in years. You see how quickly people change their minds?

@Sandy: We've done much, much better in the EPL in seasons past. By that I mean immediate past.

Done much much better?? With respect to what? Which teams? Which clubs? Based on what assumption? (It's not that I don't know the assumptions, but just asking to hear it loud n clear once again!)

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This season is almost the polar opposite - starting poorly and finishing (hopefully?) strong. There's a lot yet left to play for. Since our current squad (Arteta, Mertesacker, Santos, etc.) have been available we've done fine. Look at the team sheets for the United game, for example.

So what you are saying, starting poorly and finishing strong(hopefully) at the same way in past 7 seasons are signs of success of manager?
I don't know, I should agree with that, if I do that means I need to agree that all the previous seasons were success too and major achievement to the manager.

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You say AKB, I say practical. It's a nice soundbite,

AKBs are AKBs, they stand by ONE PARTICULAR MAN. To them everyone else is irrelevant, everything else is irrelevant and that includes even the club itself. So it's far from being practical.

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but when you look at how many managers have failed to do what Arsene has for one season, let alone a dozen, perhaps you can gain a greater appreciation.

Actually, if I've to talk about Premier league only, I do recognize the achievement of David Moyes too, see I can't even name Martin O'neill, he didn't stay put in one club. I mean in every level people are achieving things too within their resources and limitations. I don't think Wenger's achievement was bigger than David Moyes's or O'neill's achievement with respect to their level. I think it's safer to put Wenger with these folks as the best among that group rather than some other folks who gotta win things to keep their jobs intact, you know what I mean?

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A week ago Arsenal were in rapid decline and Tottenham were the best team in London in years. You see how quickly people change their minds?

yeah, I know, I know even the folks here and all over internet was comparing them with AC Milan saying if we can do this to Spuds so can we do that to AC Milan. Afterall, Spuds beat Milan last season.lol.

The problem is these are the talks of the media who say things much more atrocious than that, even if the only similarity between the two is Milan won the CL twice during the same time span when Spuds won the CC.
Spuds punched above their weight whether they could sustain with that or not are still to see having said that if I've to judge neutrally about Spuds, need to say that they did extremely well in terms of football and results till the last two matches. But by no means you should benchmark Wenger's success against Spuds or Harry Redknapp's.

Done much much better?? With respect to what? Which teams? Which clubs? Based on what assumption? (It's not that I don't know the assumptions, but just asking to hear it loud n clear once again!)

With respect to points, position in the table, and generally the things that actually matter.

I wouldn't say that our end of the season position is necessarily better, but normally we're battling for 1st-3rd, not 7th-4th.

The start we had to this season didn't help, and I think if we had our full squad from the get-go it would have been the former. Not the latter.

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So what you are saying, starting poorly and finishing strong(hopefully) at the same way in past 7 seasons are signs of success of manager?
I don't know, I should agree with that, if I do that means I need to agree that all the previous seasons were success too and major achievement to the manager.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying considering we were in the relegation slots early in the season, 4th isn't so terrible. We've scrapped and fought this season to get back to a very respectable position. Only an idiot would sh.it on that effort.

Instead of telling me why Wenger is so terrible for Arsenal, why don't you tell me what manager you'd bring in for him in his stead, and why he'd do better?

People want change for changes sake. Regardless of thought.

Try thinking.

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AKBs are AKBs, they stand by ONE PARTICULAR MAN. To them everyone else is irrelevant, everything else is irrelevant and that includes even the club itself. So it's far from being practical.

4th is the lowest we can achieve. If you don't win anything, at least make sure you're in the CL places. At the start of every season the goal of the manager, players and fans is to finish 1st or win any major trophy. If that flops, at least make top 4.

Not the ultimate achievement, but I'd rather be where we are than where Chelsea, Newcastle and Liverpool are.

With respect to points, position in the table, and generally the things that actually matter.
I wouldn't say that our end of the season position is necessarily better, but normally we're battling for 1st-3rd, not 7th-4th.

My bad, should have understood much earlier, AKBs are only allowed to compare current form with Arsene Wenger 2007, Arsene Wenger 2008, then 2009, 2010, 2011.....unless otherwise we are comparing him with a sacked manager of other club or Harry Redknapp.

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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying considering we were in the relegation slots early in the season, 4th isn't so terrible. We've scrapped and fought this season to get back to a very respectable position.

So in your logic, if I've to again go by the football bible of Premiership examples, imagine the only god fearing PL fans majestic Man United as example, now based on your logic if Man United after winning the league 4 out of last 5 times and winning numerous other trophies had started this season in 15th position and came back strong and finished in top 4 winning nothing, you would consider that as achievement!!

Guess who I was arguing with??

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Only an idiotwould sh.it on that effort.

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Instead of telling me why Wenger is so terrible for Arsenal, why don't you tell me what manager you'd bring in for him in his stead, and why he'd do better?

I'm from a different faith, I don't answer questions written in AKBs bible, you should know by now.

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Stop arguing soundbites and start arguing the actual points and maybe you'll get a bit more respect.

Respect is the last thing I was craving for, so keep it intact for your beloved manager, trust me it will come handy soon before the clock turns to next year.

**If you are AKB, just proud to be an AKB. There isn't anything wrong in it. That's why DeTimes n I are friend, he accepts himself as AKB so do I accept myself as moaner, AOB, half fan whatever you would like to call.
There is nothing constructive or football in these talks, so too boring, adios.

You've already said that he is making lemonade out of lemons. Now you're saying that they're not actually lemons after all. You make no sense. Perhaps you would understand it better if they were grapefruits.

EboractosYou've already said that he is making lemonade out of lemons. Now you're saying that they're not actually lemons after all. You make no sense. Perhaps you would understand it better if they were grapefruits.

gunnersinghI think a lot of people underestimate the size of Arsenal football club. We are the biggest football club in London, one of the biggest in the world and one of the richest in the world.
We should aim to win the league every season, or at least challenge for it.

If wenger is happy and content with just making the top 4, he should leave. It's as simple as that.

Another thing, using other teams as yardsticks to measure our 'success' is just making excuses for Wenger.

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