Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: Your name MUST be on The Blue Card to ride it????

Anybody hear anything about this??

I'm hearing things from Viet friends of mine about a new bill that was recently passed in either The National Assembly or the Central Committee that states that the operator of a motor vehicle must have his or her name on the ownership documentation? If not, it can be anywhere from a VND 1 Million to VND 10 Million fine??

So, if this new proposal has indeed been enacted into law, are they going to make it more straightforward for a Tây to purchase and LEGALLY REGISTER a used motorbike in his or her name?

Has anybody heard anything about this? HOW would this affect the tourist motorbike rental industry? What about leasing bikes on a monthly basis to foreigners?

Some Vietnamese people I was with last night were talking about this until I asked whether or not, like many laws here, it would just be ignored or substituted for a 200,000VND bribe even if it did become law.
They both agreed that there was no reason to believe this would ever stand out as a practical law rather than something new for policemen to complain about when they pull someone over. In fact one of them pointed out that they consider it standard tactics for someone stopped by the police here to claim to have left all their documents at home, and pay the corresponding bribe, rather than risk the policeman keeping their documents.

The two hotels I've stayed in when on holiday with my Vietnamese girlfriend here state on their websites and in emails that, in accordance with the law, they cannot allow Vietnamese nationals into foreigners' hotel rooms unless they're married. Obviously when you get to the hotel no-one bats an eyelid.

My main source of info has told me more or less this same story. I have not seen it in English yet, but have been looking for it. Don't think it has worked its way to us in the English language sites yet. Her info is that they are going to enforce this in Ha Noi first, supposedly now. The VN are pretty skeptical about this, as it is quite draconian, speculation on how many motorbikes would not be legal in this case would be interesting. My guess is the majority of them. It would be impossible to trace down the previous owners on many or most of the older ones.

Don't recall if we talked about this, but about a month ago HCMC was threatening to outlaw all older motorbikes as safety hazards. Suddenly, that one just went away.

Certainly these guys can try to do whatever they want with their rules and enforcement. One can see many things that could be improved over here with the transportation sector, especially with the ridiculous driving we see. Forcing people to not be able to use their motorbikes which were legally purchased following the standard procedures of the day does not seem like a very good way of improving the situation, and could cause a lot of serious discontent among the masses. My guess is that it will not become a big deal, as there are just too many of them that are already running without this level of documentation and it would almost force those motorbikes into the scrap heap. This would be a huge waste of money that the people cannot afford, and create a lot of animosity.

Very interesting point about having ones docs and pretending not to. Never heard that before, but it makes sense. It is also a great testimony to the reality of the system here. I will ask around about that strategy some more. I do think for us, we are in a fortunate position. I do not recommend taking advantage of it by driving drunk or ignoring safety, but I do see them clearly opting not to mess with us when we drive by. Not that we have done anything wrong, and if we did something really crazy then they really should go ahead and tag us, but we do seem to be exempt from the random taxation that enforcement really seems to be.

I'm pretty sure that it's always been the case where the owner is meant to have their name on the card. The law I linked last time was dated 2010 and has various deadlines and processes for changing the name over when you sell, buy, give or win a bike.

As we mentioned on a previous thread, the enforcement on ensuring this has certainly been really lax, at least according to the shared experiences of posters on this board (and the VN they have asked) as well as the shared experiences of all of the people I have ever spoken to (and all of the VN they have ever cared to ask).

I haven't heard of this new development, but I can only guess that there has been some letter or decree requesting a report or more adherence to the laws and possibly outlining more defined or strenuous administrative measures for breaking the them.

If you think about it, this whole issue really isn't much different to the work permit one. You've basically always been required to have one, and in the past few years there has been various posturing and various laws and circulars issued, with the effect of some scape goats having issues and work permit ownership going up..... how many %? 5? 15? OH and more annoying visa runs.

Unless you're in an area regularly frequented by foreigners, most cops probably wouldn't even know that foreigners can have bikes registered in their own name... just say it's your wife's / school's. (I'm not being sexist there - realistically, how many foreign ladies are driving around on a bike registered in their VN husband's name?)

You're also meant to have your driving license and in-date insurance card with you, a mirror on the left hand side, a helmet on, no more than 2 people on the bike, to drive on the correct side of the road, not to be drunk (actually, I'm not sure if this law exists, but surely it does?), you're probably meant to have a working headlight that dips and working brakes, too.

I have been bugging my wife for a while to get her blue card in her name. Right now it is in a name that I think is the dealer's, and she has a receipt stapled to it. As far as I can see this has been the norm for a lot of people for a while. She tells me that to transfer to her own name, she will have to return to her home province along with all the papers and then she can make the change. So for a large number of Viet citizens, transferring the blue card will be a big hassle. Almost every interaction with government here revolves around the person's legal residency. My guess is that at least 10% of the de-facto residents of HCMC are actually legal residents of other provinces and some are legal residents of as far away as Hanoi. Imagine if you had to travel to Hanoi just to register your motorbike.

Last edited by TRH on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total

Regarding drunk driving laws, a local friend tells me that the propoganda machine is heavy at it telling the masses that come 2013, drunk driving enforcement will be stepped up to a main prioroty, with a top penalty of bike siezure and up to an astronomical 20 million fine! This is from the mouth of a friend, mind you, but he's got parents in high places, so perhaps he's a reliable source. I have certainly noticed all of the anti-drunk driving banners all over Saigon. Another anecdote, someone I know recently had his motorbike siezed upon getting on it outside of a bar after a fairly heavy session. In his state, he recalls fiddling with his keys and looking up to be surrounded by a troup of coppers. This person was not arrested. He returned to the police station the next day, with an extra set of keys, and was delighted to see his bike parked right by the front drive, without anyone around. Off he went! It's a rental bike, and I presume he had to furnish some ID to rent it, so we'll see if they do some detective work and nab him. Doubtful. This was not in Saigon, btw, but a nearby town on the coast.

Regarding drunk driving laws, a local friend tells me that the propoganda machine is heavy at it telling the masses that come 2013, drunk driving enforcement will be stepped up to a main prioroty, with a top penalty of bike siezure and up to an astronomical 20 million fine! This is from the mouth of a friend, mind you, but he's got parents in high places, so perhaps he's a reliable source. I have certainly noticed all of the anti-drunk driving banners all over Saigon.

I've also noticed a huge increase in the amount of anti-drunk driving advertisements around Saigon; you know, from literally none to a few. Ordinarily, I'd be all for a crack-down, but, sad to say, I can't see it being carried out effectively. I wonder how the cops will establish whether people are intoxicated or not though. Will they have drivers walk a straight line, touch the tip of their nose with their eyes closed etc.? I suppose they could use breathalyzers but, for some reason, I can't really picture Vietnamese law enforcement having access to that kind of technology .

Until there is a deep systemic change, looks like all this enforcement will be based on income generation, not for process improvement. The natives know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Not just traffic, everything.

According to the Decree, which took effect on November 10, the fine is VND2-4 million (US$96-192) for owners of motorbikes

people should not be excessively worried about this penalty, since traffic police will only consider applying it after they stop drivers who have violated traffic rules for examination.

“Usually, police will consider such a penalty only in specific cases, such as those that involve traffic accidents or criminal cases,” Tuyen said.

such confirmation from the ministry means that no one, including foreigners, will be fined when they drive a vehicle that they have rented or borrowed if they can prove that they have done so.

So, it is being enforced, except it won't be, unless they pull you over for a criminal act, which could mean any time they pull you over, right? Looks to me like mass confusion. Reminds me of the illegal aliens in the states. Yeah, we are gonna send you back if we catch you, cept there is 12 million of you, so if you don't really do anything wrong (except just being there is illegal) we won't. Anyway, I do suggest we keep our docs with us and just smile and show em, then give em the "no sabe" thing, I betcha unless we are drunk or something, they are not gonna mess with us. I also think that they have to figure out some kind of amnesty thing on this, cause millions of bikes are out there with the plastic ownership cards of people that are long gone and could never be found. There is no other answer for that, either pretend it is okay when you stop them (like they have been doing for decades), junk millions of motorbikes or give them some kind of legal process that is doable. May be a great opportunity for a cottage industry in faking documents though, that may be the next step on this. Or, getting someone to do the sacred red stamp on your faked documents, even better.

By the way, I sent an email to one of the dealers of motorbikes asking him if he could sell a bike following the process that is now supposedly being enforced, where you have to get it registered into the purchaser's name. Here is his response:

Hi
thanks for Know about vietnam's law
but it just used for 2 days( fun law)
because it is impossible to do it!
it finish now........>>>> normal
if you want to buy motorbike you dont need to care about that and my bikes are 100% lawful property with registration papers(if you want i can write contract of sale for you . its perfect)
my number:xxxxxxxxxxxxx
"
Call us today for a test drive"

I love that one, "fun law", gotta remember that. Love how they say "normal", they have a different stress on it than we do, and it means so much more to them as well. They use that one a lot.