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Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Originally Posted by Kaiten

What are those reasons? If Law and Luffy do fight Kaido, what becomes of the unfinished business from Fishman Island? They still owe her candy, the treasure they sent her still contains a bomb, Luffy is still her enemy, and Jinbe is still bound to her service. None of this changes if they fight Kaido, Big Mom is still an imminent threat to Luffy and his friends at Fishman Island. Luffy will have to do the impossible twice, defeating two Yonkou in consecutive, or near consecutive arcs.

More importantly: it would be incompetent storytelling for Oda to introduce a Yonkou as an imminent enemy of Luffy, have Luffy and Law form an alliance to defeat a Yonkou, and then have them attack a Yonkou who has yet to be introduced, ignoring the Big Mom plot lines just introduced a few months ago.

Could be just as possible Law and Luffy will go after Kaidou and Big Mom. I don't recall the manga ever saying they were enemies, hated each other, or worked with each other. They could have been allies for all we know to stand against Whitebeard and/or Shanks just in case.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Sorry, can't be done now that voting has started. I can't edit the poll to make who voted for what visible, the only thing I can do is strip the poll and start over.

Originally Posted by M3J

Could be just as possible Law and Luffy will go after Kaidou and Big Mom. I don't recall the manga ever saying they were enemies, hated each other, or worked with each other. They could have been allies for all we know to stand against Whitebeard and/or Shanks just in case.

Two Yonkou seems like overkill. Defeating one is hard enough, two at once probably isn't possible. That would also waste Kaido, who would otherwise have been available for another arc. Until proven wrong I'm assuming X Drake will be prominently involved in a Kaido arc.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

To dismiss Blackbeard and Shanks as valid choices of Law right of the bat is something you should never do in story that unpredictable. If Law has a super plan who needs a few more strong people to work it could be anyone of the current yonkou.
That said Big Mum might obviously be a good choice because Luffy already declared war but does that mean Law wants to fight her right now? Not necessarily. I'd like to take Luffy's reaction towards Laws offer into consideration. Luffy seems to be happy about the chosen one so I could be her. Though their would still the possibility of a different emotion in Big Moms case I'd lean towards a happy face of Luffy because he found an ally against an enemy he already made.
If Law chose Shanks as his target it could explain Luffy's reaction too. He is happy to see him again and thinks that Law should not pose a threat to him. One could also use the argument that the happy face is actually a reason why it can't be Shanks. Luffy is always very protective of his friends and so an angry face would not be unexpectedly. Here it's hard to decide if he would make an happy, an angry or an irritated face but I guess he would not right away show such a happy face (I'm leaning to irritated in Shanks case).
But Luffy's happy face could also be explained if the target is Kaidou. He doesn't know him and though he is not an enemy yet he is foremost not a friend either and still an obstacle later on. So in Kaidous case knowing Luffy a smile would be the only choice why should he be angry in this case anyway?
I would dismiss Blackbeard as a possible choice of Law but not because he is more of an "endgame villain" (which he surely is) but because of Luffy's happy reaction. I suppose he would react far more emotional after hearing that he might encounter him pretty soon. The "endgame villain" argument does indeed not carry that much of a value for me because just being the target of this newly forged alliance doesn't mean that they have to beat him nor that they must meet him any time soon (the plan could fail miserably).

So far my choice would be:
1) Big Mom/Kaidou: The former for obvious reasons and a fitting reaction and the latter as a wild card and because the reaction still fits,
3) Shanks: Because the reaction of Luffy is explainable and it could lead to some interesting events.
4) Blackbeard: He's in the last place because here I find the smile of Luffy the least explainable and I don't think that Law's plan fails that miserably (though another lose against Blackbeard could stir up the engine even more).

Taking a look at Frami's reaction I'd say that this is just some face we could actually anticipate but on a closer analysis I'd dismiss Big Mum because of her face. Though she is a scaredy cat she should realise that Luffy would fit her nontheless and that Law could be an important ally in doing so. Other than that I think that a scared/ pretty irritated face would be justifed.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

In all seriousness without putting much thoughts into it, just ask urself since when does Luffy attack ppl for random reasons? The answer is never.

I mean Luffy always acts on justified reasons. So Luffy agreeing by just hearing the name of the Yonko should either mean Blackbeard or Big Mom. As for the other two, he doesn't has a reason. So it should be Big Mom, as she is already forshadowed while BB seems rather as pre Raftel material.

Oda being known as unpredictable is of no relevance. Its not like the last two blank pages were unpredictable.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Well you could argue that he understands that he needs to surpass the yonkou someday and forging an alliance with a guy he kinda likes anyway wouldn't seem to bad and furthermore he could think along the line "I don't care about Kaidou but I owe him big so I'll help him with his plan". In such a case the smile would simply imply that he can agree with the choice (in that scenario all but Shanks would have been possible).
I do think that the first yonkou Luffy meats in the nwe world will be Kaidou and maybe Oda will use him as a way to show what (one of the unknown) yonkou is made of. Maybe he will even be the first yonkou to be taken down but only with the help of Law and maybe others. Drake could be easily involved aswell for example. Comparing Kaidou's strenght with the strenght of Big Mum would indeed a way to show the threat even the unknown yonkou can pose and because Luffy already declared war on Big Mum this could lead to interesting events.

Something that I think should not be ignored is the fact that Oda didn't show us the choice for a reason. Think about it: this way he's building up tension and by revealing that the chosen yonkou is Big Mum all the tension building would not have been necessary. In most of the cases you would need such a writing style because the choice is indeed not the obvious one. Since there are only 4 valid choices that come to mind (maybe 5 if you say that Law's plan is not very specific and he lets Luffy chose) that leaves Shanks, Kaidou and Blackbeard as the less obvious ones.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

IMO Shanks.
The reason: Luffy wants to show Shanks just how powerful he became - enough to challenge him if not take him down. Just look at how happy he is about the idea!
Big Mom is too foreshadowed, if it was her there'd be no need for Odacchi to hide it from us, because most people wouldn't find it surprising.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Originally Posted by 0Xellos

IMO Shanks.
The reason: Luffy wants to show Shanks just how powerful he became - enough to challenge him if not take him down. Just look at how happy he is about the idea!
Big Mom is too foreshadowed, if it was her there'd be no need for Odacchi to hide it from us, because most people wouldn't find it surprising.

BM being too foreshadowed isn't much of a reason for it not to be her. Oda could have hidden it precisely because of these discussions which were generated as a result. The other choices just wouldn't fit:
Shanks - Luffy would have had an angry/irritated face. He considers Shanks a friend and we all know how protective he is of his friends. The whole Luffy being happy that he gets to meet shanks is ridiculous, he hasn't actively sought to meet Shanks so why would he now? They both made a promise to meet again when Luffy was a great pirate and he still has a long way to go, Shanks didn't want to meet Luffy precisely because of this reason during the war. Besides, it's clear that Law doesn't want to just have a quick spar with a Yonkou and then leave, he wants to actually take them down, why would Luffy want to destroy everything that Shanks has worked for just to see who is stronger?

Kaidou - Luffy has no idea who he is, he'll have more of a confused face than anything

BB - A simple happy face is just out of the ordinary considering all that's happened.

There's also the fact that if they go after any other yonkou besides BM, everything with FI will be unresolved for a while, which I just don't see happening.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

I don't think Law was talking about Big MOM since everybody was so shocked/surprised, Luffy already declared war on Big Mom so it wouldn't be so surprising.
So because of the shock, I guess it has to be teach or shanks. Since they don't know Kaido so their reaction wouldn't be so shocked and it probably wouldn;t be kept a secret.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Originally Posted by Bigfoot187

I don't think Law was talking about Big MOM since everybody was so shocked/surprised, Luffy already declared war on Big Mom so it wouldn't be so surprising.
So because of the shock, I guess it has to be teach or shanks. Since they don't know Kaido so their reaction wouldn't be so shocked and it probably wouldn;t be kept a secret.

Or it is Big Mom actually.. and the fact They were surprised is beacuse Law somehow found out they declared war on her and was willing/agreeing to help in exchange for something

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Originally Posted by 0Xellos

IMO Shanks.
The reason: Luffy wants to show Shanks just how powerful he became - enough to challenge him if not take him down. Just look at how happy he is about the idea!
Big Mom is too foreshadowed, if it was her there'd be no need for Odacchi to hide it from us, because most people wouldn't find it surprising.

Writing doesn't work like that

There seems to be some confusion about the definition of foreshadowing. Foreshadowing is a subtle hint at future plot direction. When Ace makes first mention of Blackbeard, that is foreshadowing. The audience was only informed that Blackbeard was a criminal Ace was tracking. His identity and role in the greater narrative of the story was not explained, leaving the audience free to speculate.

Luffy declaring war on Big Mom was a matter of telegraphing, not foreshadowing. Telegraphing is the direct, full disclosure of a future plot development. There are no remaining mysteries about Big Mom's role in One Piece. We know she poses an imminent threat to Fishman Island, that Luffy has declared war on her, that a bomb was inadvertently sent to her, and that Jinbe can not join the Strawhats until she is defeated. The only question is when the Strawhats confront her crew.

A red herring is the opposite of foreshadowing, a subtle hint meant to mislead the audience, obscuring the direction the plot is headed. A red herring is meant to manipulate expectations, increasing the impact of surprise revelations. The statements Law made about himself before the timeskip are a good example of a red herring. Part of the audience was manipulated into believing he would either be a villain or callous, uncaring character. His true role in the manga was established when he saved Luffy and Jinbe's life after Marineford. A red herring must be subtle, lying to the audience renders it ineffective. The disconnect between Law's words and his actions (a literary device called irony) was enough to manipulate expectations without lying to the audience.

All of these plot devices are meant to manipulate expectations, a way for authors to guide the audience in a desired direction, or to obscure future developments and keep plot twists fresh. Foreshadowing and telegraphing also help establish continuity. They allow the author to preview future developments, connect disparate story lines, and establish more organic plot twists. Oda likely telegraphed Big Mom's role in order to establish continuity between Fishman Island and developments to come at Punk Hazard. Law's proposed alliance could still surprise the audience, and yet remain a logical extension of recent events.

If telegraphing Big Mom was an elaborate red herring, all plot continuity would be lost. Rather than a carefully scripted, logical development, Law's goal of defeating a Yonkou would be a soap opera twist with no connection to prior events in the manga. Kaido has not been introduced, Big Mom has. And the introduction was recent, during the transition from Fishman Island to Punk Hazard. Shanks is even more illogical. Confronting Shanks would contradict the entire manga, Shank's role and relationship to Luffy was established before One Piece was even serialized, in the first Romance Dawn one shot. His role has been further reinforced with every appearance. A confrontation between Luffy and Shanks would be a massive break in continuity, retconning Shank's role and Luffy's personality.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Originally Posted by Dice

To dismiss Blackbeard and Shanks as valid choices of Law right of the bat is something you should never do in story that unpredictable. If Law has a super plan who needs a few more strong people to work it could be anyone of the current yonkou.
That said Big Mum might obviously be a good choice because Luffy already declared war but does that mean Law wants to fight her right now? Not necessarily. I'd like to take Luffy's reaction towards Laws offer into consideration. Luffy seems to be happy about the chosen one so I could be her. Though their would still the possibility of a different emotion in Big Moms case I'd lean towards a happy face of Luffy because he found an ally against an enemy he already made.
If Law chose Shanks as his target it could explain Luffy's reaction too. He is happy to see him again and thinks that Law should not pose a threat to him. One could also use the argument that the happy face is actually a reason why it can't be Shanks. Luffy is always very protective of his friends and so an angry face would not be unexpectedly. Here it's hard to decide if he would make an happy, an angry or an irritated face but I guess he would not right away show such a happy face (I'm leaning to irritated in Shanks case).
But Luffy's happy face could also be explained if the target is Kaidou. He doesn't know him and though he is not an enemy yet he is foremost not a friend either and still an obstacle later on. So in Kaidous case knowing Luffy a smile would be the only choice why should he be angry in this case anyway?
I would dismiss Blackbeard as a possible choice of Law but not because he is more of an "endgame villain" (which he surely is) but because of Luffy's happy reaction. I suppose he would react far more emotional after hearing that he might encounter him pretty soon. The "endgame villain" argument does indeed not carry that much of a value for me because just being the target of this newly forged alliance doesn't mean that they have to beat him nor that they must meet him any time soon (the plan could fail miserably).

So far my choice would be:
1) Big Mom/Kaidou: The former for obvious reasons and a fitting reaction and the latter as a wild card and because the reaction still fits,
3) Shanks: Because the reaction of Luffy is explainable and it could lead to some interesting events.
4) Blackbeard: He's in the last place because here I find the smile of Luffy the least explainable and I don't think that Law's plan fails that miserably (though another lose against Blackbeard could stir up the engine even more).

Taking a look at Frami's reaction I'd say that this is just some face we could actually anticipate but on a closer analysis I'd dismiss Big Mum because of her face. Though she is a scaredy cat she should realise that Luffy would fit her nontheless and that Law could be an important ally in doing so. Other than that I think that a scared/ pretty irritated face would be justifed.

But maybe Law needs more power and people, Cause a simple Rookie can´t beat so easy a yonkou. For WB they need and complete army and Pirate Crew to defeat him and Giants and Admirals. So i think, Law isn´t able to defeat a Yonkou alone. So he needs more help from other Person. Aslong we don´t know the reason, why Law leave Don Flamingo. We dont be able to understand his plans and reason. Maybe BigMum stands also under controll of Don Flamingo. But that is no reason to think in other Way.
My first tought was they wanna defeat Shanks. But for that Ruffys Crew are not complett yet. Remember the promise the give another one. Ruffy say next time we meet us, my Crew will be better then yours. So when he come up with Law and his Crew defeat Shanks it will not be the promise they give. And the biggest Point in One Piece are promises.

So my hope goes to Shanks, but the Way it looks it will be BigMum. Like i said Ruffys Crew not complett yet and he will fight Shanks alone not with help from other Crews. For Kaidou is he a Yonkou overall?? I mean XDrake is not a youngster like other Pirates. He was a former high marine Officer befor he get a Pirate. That is a different Lvl and experience like Law and Ruffy got.

Originally Posted by 0Xellos

IMO Shanks.
The reason: Luffy wants to show Shanks just how powerful he became - enough to challenge him if not take him down. Just look at how happy he is about the idea!
Big Mom is too foreshadowed, if it was her there'd be no need for Odacchi to hide it from us, because most people wouldn't find it surprising.

First im also on your toughts, i hope it will be Shanks. Only about the foreshadowing stuff. In OP Color Walk 2 in the Interview of Eiichiro ODA and Fujiko Fujio. Oda says he doesn´t care what his Fans wanna see or await. He only draw, what he wanna draw. So when Oda wanna see BigMum falling, he will draw it.

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

It is more plausible to be Big Mama. Since Luffy already declared war on her.

Like a lot of you, Shanks would be a total disaster for them. He would utterly destroy them tbh and it would go agaisnt the whole continuation and promise Luffy and he made back then. Shanks will probably not even bother fighting them and treat them like fodder.

Blackbeard would be too early and would probably beat them to a pulp. Though IMO Luffy would give more than a challenge for BB adding in Law and we have BB going all out and murdering theyre crews. And we know BB is not above playing dirty or cowardly strategies.

Kaidou like a lot of you said would not make sense since, Luffy and the crew have not actively shown any knowledge of him.

Big Mama would be the most likely and given Luffys expression it seems to be highly likely. He already declared war on her and she is an immediate threat to him and his friends and is the only hurdle in his plan of getting Jinbei as a crew mate. And we know Luffy loves getting himself some crewmates and would go to extremes. Especially taking into account the relationship he has with Jinbei.

So logically speaking, Big Mama is Laws and Luffys target. Besides am i the only one who believes Law will betray Luffy?

Re: Which Yonkou does Law want to take down?

Honestly, saying "if it was Big Mom, then Oda wouldn't keep it a secret!" is bad logic. Why wouldn't he keep it a secret? As far as we know, it could be any Yonkou, and him not revealing Big Mom keeps us in suspense longer. Because Oda didn't tell us, we're doubting which Yonkou Luffy will face now, but it can still very well be Big Mom. It's a cliffhanger.

I'm not saying it's definitely Big Mom, I'm just saying it's illogical to count her out just because Oda didn't reveal who Law is going after or wants to go after.