I'm absolutely none of the "Hurr American stuff is better" guys, but that is a different case.

The early Sabres had the M3 .50cals, which proved rather ineffective in jet combat due to their low punch. MiG pilots on the other hand experienced difficulties with the velocity.

The M39 however is based on the concept of the German MG213. Forget the Maus, the V2, the Horten, THIS was Germany's real wunderwaffe. It had everything, EVERYTHING! Good shell weight, muzzle velocity, amazing rate of fire....

It gives the Sabre a tremendous advantage in combat. Then again, by the time the M39 armed ones roll around there's the MiG-17 already.

>>2778575286 pilots were at no disadgvanatge flying any model with .50s, and no 20mm variant would have had an advantage purely because of the armament. You do not understand air combat or acm in the least, and certainly not what .50's do to the fuselage of a small jet engine

>>27785916>>27785921USA should have just put 4 ADEN in their F-86 like goodboy Britain did in their Hunter.Total overkill

But yea, the Mig-15 didn't have great armament either.I don't know why they didn't just put 4-6 Berezin B-20 cannons in their Mig.Very small and light great cannon.

Maybe they were just scared of bombers

>>27785957>what happens hereAn anomalyMajority of the time the Mig survived it.https://books.google.nl/books?id=PlAAJReESsIC&pg=PT23&lpg=PT23&dq=.50+armament+of+the+sabre+inadequate&source=bl&ots=FydZg4D74P&sig=tRVy4g4CTagl-qflN39EhZsTEbI&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=kNiPVdGFIsL1UMjug4AD&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=.50%20armament%20of%20the%20sabre%20inadequate&f=false

>44% of claimed air 2 air kills were assessed as destroyedNot being able to finish of enemy pilots is a nice way to grant your enemy more experienced pilots instead of them having to replace them with rookies.

>>27786215And those same .50s proved to be underpowered in the jet age.

And those few pictures don't disprove the countless pilots who complained about the fiddies.Also if they had developed the M39 much sooner, the Mig-15 would have never been known as a durable aircraft.And again, a few exceptions don't mean nothing when a majority of the migs survived getting shot at.

Anyone who understands aircraft design and engineering, physics, has read a pilot memoir or biography, or at the very least has a minimum of one working eyeball and the ability to watch images moving in motion, such as actual gun camera footage, should know.

>>27787671>.50 is fineThat's true. People are saying that the 20mm was better. Which is still true.Unless you honestly think that fighter aircraft should continue to have attributes that are just 'fine'.

>>27791329Radars on fighters had been a thing since WW2, but were primarily larger pieces for navigation and finding targets used on night fighters.

The radar gunsight on the Sabre was something completely different - it was far smaller, and, unlike the search radars used on night fighters, the radar on the Sabre was more of a simple rangefinder that plugged into a computer to give the pilot a more accurate picture of where to aim.

>>27791573>much betterVs fighter it is 19% for 0.50 vs 23% and 25%. It is better but not much.

Vs bomber things become funny. It's 2.2 sec for .50 and 1.5 sec of 20mm INC. Too bad no one used all incendiary belts because this is counterintuitive (you know explosive rounds do more damage hurr durr.) And HE 20mm had worse time of 3.3 sec.

There was only one caliber that had distinctive advantages in the order of hundreds percent. Based 30×90RB mm.

>>27791573>>27791717>based 30x90Shame they didn't test others.But this test does confirm than the German Mk108 with minengeschoss was the best answer for bombers, despite its velocity.

Would have liked to see the Japanese Ho-5 cannon, which is actually the same gun as the Browning M2, just modified to shoot a shortened Hispano cartridge.http://www.lonesentry.com/ordnance/20-mm-aircraft-cannon-ho-5-browning-principle.html

The MG 151 and the MG151/20 with minengeschoss would be interesting too.

Berezin B-20 too, very light cannon (only 25kg) but the same velocity and fire rate as the German Mg151/20. Shame Russian ammunition wasn't too good.

>>27791573>Time required for 90% probability kill is much better for the .60 and the 20mm Hispano

And in the real world, where planes move about, and at best, pilots having glancing shots, or high speed passes, weapons with high RoF will always be the better option, because they'll always have a higher % of hitting, And if you knew anything about the internal workings of a single engine jet fighter (you don't), you'd know six .50's are more than enough to disable hydraulics, damage control surfaces, cause oil/glycol leaks, and, quite simply, put the fighter out of the fight. Whether the pilot has a chance to bail out, or crash land, becomes irrelevant at that point. The plane is unable to function.

Wanting to see plane go 'boom', is a side effect of movies and video games, and people like you not understanding that a plane can still be downed, regardless of whether it literally disintegrated into thin air or not.

Even planes armed with 20mm would still only fire enough to damage a plane, then immediately pull of to attack another in a real furball. Because:

A: You always have to worry about the fact that another enemy fighter could be on your ass, while you're busy trying to kil the guy in front of you

and

B: While you're busy with the fighter you're tangling with, your wingmen could be in trouble and need help, not to mention the bombers, which you're supposed to be protecting.

Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.