FTA:The former fortified wine barrels had wine soaked into the wood and are larger than standard whiskey barrels, giving the Woodford Reserve a larger surface-to-whiskey ratio....

I read this and immediately thought "someone didn't pay enough attention during their HS math classes". I was happy to see that the first few comments at the bottom of the article pointed this out. With a barrel, the volume will increase faster than the surface area, thus producing an inverse relationship of what the article suggests.

I had that one over the holidays - it was quite good when I first opened it, but when I revisited it a few weeks later it seemed to fall apart. I then tried adding just a few drops of Ardbeg 10 to a glass, and that turned out to be awesome (not to mention conserving my supply of A10).

Bruxellensis:Jim_Callahan: TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Vodka doesn't have to be made from a potato mash, and often isn't.

Also, I see what TheWhoppah is saying, which I think you missed. The point is that the neutral spirit is absorbing its color and flavor from the charred wood - almost like a tea.

Vodak is flavorless off the still. Whisk(e)y is not. The difference comes in the grains used, yeast strains, and any peat aromas from the malting process.

Whisky is a distilled grain spirit aged for at least three years in a oak cask.

Nothing is stopping you from aging a spirit in maple casks for two years but don't call it whisky. You can say its made in the same way as whisky apart from the age and cask but calling it whisky is fraud.

They've had this down to religious ritual level of adherence and attention to detail (and have cultivated that image quite successfully even though it is largely an industrial process now) for how they make whiskey at many distillers. Everything is controlled, and they've employed scientists and researchers for years.

For instance, doesn't the Jack Daniel's distillery have it's own saw mill to cut the wood for the charcoal used to char the barrels?

Even with all this, I'd wager one could trick whiskey taste testers the same as they do wine taste testers into picking cheap swill over the good stuff based on price alone.

mistersnark:Bruxellensis: Jim_Callahan: TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Vodka doesn't have to be made from a potato mash, and often isn't.

Also, I see what TheWhoppah is saying, which I think you missed. The point is that the neutral spirit is absorbing its color and flavor from the charred wood - almost like a tea.

Vodak is flavorless off the still. Whisk(e)y is not. The difference comes in the grains used, yeast strains, and any peat aromas from the malting process.

Um no, not necessarily. First, that will depend on the type of still used. A reflux still will produce a pretty flavorless spirit, no matter what the sugar source was, or the yeast used. Whiskey gets the bulk of its flavor from the barrels. Islay Scotch whisky uses less reflux in their distillation to preserve some of the smoked flavor from the malt. Some whisky producers use variations of the pot still for this reason. The yeast doesn't matter as much, since hardly any of the esters from the yeast are carried into the final spirit.

lack of warmth:Zeno-25: GBB: Tobin_Lam: I like my Jack Daniels wood chips. They give things a nice flavor and they smell good even before you burn them.

Wood chips.... That give me an idea. If they are looking for more surface area, why don't they use charred wood chips in the barrel? Or perhaps peices of the staves floating around in there?

I have a friend who tried just that, some unaged 'moonshine' from the store in some mason jars with charred bits of hardwood for six months to a year.

It was drinkable, but the only non-alcohol flavor was the vanilla flavors from the wood. He thinks he charred the wood chunks too much.

Maybe filter before drinking. Or was he in too much of a hurry since he couldn't wait the seven years. Did also take into account that the brew isn't suppose to be in the light during the seven years either. They maybe traditions, but they are traditions built on experimentation.

Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

Polish Hussar:Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

Jim_Callahan:TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Also, on a similar note to my previous post, Whisky and Whiskey are just different transliterations of an old British Isles word for "water". They aren't separate things and you can just write one or the other, like Hercules and Herakles when you're talking about Greek mythology.

//Aware that z-C already made the second point in the form of a joke, but some people are genuinely confused on the point and I'm feeling educational.

You'd be surprised how many vodkas aren't made from potatoes. Besides, it's just Russian for "Little Water"

I was shocked how many hard liquors are corn based, fermented up, then distilled (because ethanol is ethanol), then diluted back down to the appropriate proof and flavors added.

This of course varies on what type of distillation method you're using. I'm still researching things myself.

meat0918:Jim_Callahan: TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Also, on a similar note to my previous post, Whisky and Whiskey are just different transliterations of an old British Isles word for "water". They aren't separate things and you can just write one or the other, like Hercules and Herakles when you're talking about Greek mythology.

//Aware that z-C already made the second point in the form of a joke, but some people are genuinely confused on the point and I'm feeling educational.

You'd be surprised how many vodkas aren't made from potatoes. Besides, it's just Russian for "Little Water"

I was shocked how many hard liquors are corn based, fermented up, then distilled (because ethanol is ethanol), then diluted back down to the appropriate proof and flavors added.

This of course varies on what type of distillation method you're using. I'm still researching things myself.

Bruxellensis:Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

meat0918:Bruxellensis: Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

meat0918:Bruxellensis: Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

mistersnark:meat0918: Bruxellensis: Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

Bruxellensis:mistersnark: meat0918: Bruxellensis: Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

Walked in and asked "Why does it smell like whiskey in here?"

Whiskey and wine barrels are typically made from whiteoak.

/Always thought red oak smelled sour and vinegary myself.

Makes beautiful furniture, though.

Fair point. Quite a bit cheaper, too.

BTW, you're entirely correct about the flavor of spirits off the still; entirely dependent on the process. I will say that most American vodka I encounter is basically flavorless, watered-down EtOH. Not so much for even the white whiskies I've had.

mistersnark:meat0918: Bruxellensis: Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

Walked in and asked "Why does it smell like whiskey in here?"

Whiskey and wine barrels are typically made from whiteoak.

/Always thought red oak smelled sour and vinegary myself.

It had that vinegary smell as well, but an undertone of whiskey to it.

They might have been cutting white oak earlier that day. This mill cut a lot of different hardwoods to order. One day it was ash, another some kind of maple.

Fubegra:taeodong: Just tried some Kirkland brand 20year scotch whisky... Yeah don't laugh but it was quite good... Worth every penny..

I had that one over the holidays - it was quite good when I first opened it, but when I revisited it a few weeks later it seemed to fall apart. I then tried adding just a few drops of Ardbeg 10 to a glass, and that turned out to be awesome (not to mention conserving my supply of A10).

I'll have to try A10.. my goto whisky at the moment is glenlivet and whiskey, knob creek.. this kirkland stuff is great for what I paid. Would like to know the distiller but couldn't find anything on the label or internets. Well, here's hoping it holds together longer than 2 weeks.

mistersnark:Bruxellensis: mistersnark: meat0918: Bruxellensis: Polish Hussar: Also, one of the main ways the "moonshine" picks up its color and flavor from the wood is from being drawn in and out of the wood due to changes in temperature. That may not work as well with wood chips in a glass jarl as it does with a wooden barrel. Modern Marvels - "Distilleries" - Barrel Aging.

It works just fine with chips/cubes in a glass jar. There's really no way to replace the real thing, but you can make a very good whiskey by using chips/cubes in a glass jar. It'll get the right color, aroma, flavor and everything.

If I actually liked what oak does to alcohol, I'd try this at home.

Took me nearly 30 years and a chance visit to a hardwood mill that happened to be cutting red oak that day to figure out why I don't like Merlot or Whiskey.

Walked in and asked "Why does it smell like whiskey in here?"

Whiskey and wine barrels are typically made from whiteoak.

/Always thought red oak smelled sour and vinegary myself.

Makes beautiful furniture, though.

Fair point. Quite a bit cheaper, too.

BTW, you're entirely correct about the flavor of spirits off the still; entirely dependent on the process. I will say that most American vodka I encounter is basically flavorless, watered-down EtOH. Not so much for even the white whiskies I've had.

That's generally true, but it's not because of the specific yeast or sugar source necessarily. It can be, but that would require a low reflux, or the use of a pot still, which most commercial distilleries don't use. White whiskey derives some of its character from a sour mash. Some of the acid from the wash is carried through the condenser and into the spirit, depending on the quality of the reflux. A finely run reflux still can produce damn near pure ethanol from any mash, which of course would taste very neutral like a vodka.

I had that one over the holidays - it was quite good when I first opened it, but when I revisited it a few weeks later it seemed to fall apart. I then tried adding just a few drops of Ardbeg 10 to a glass, and that turned out to be awesome (not to mention conserving my supply of A10).

I'll have to try A10.. my goto whisky at the moment is glenlivet and whiskey, knob creek.. this kirkland stuff is great for what I paid. Would like to know the distiller but couldn't find anything on the label or internets. Well, here's hoping it holds together longer than 2 weeks.

I have a 4 month old son. I think it would be cool to have a barrel of Whiskey, Bourbon or (gasp) Rye put down for him to be bottled when he becomes a certain age. I've seen offers where you can pick a barrel and have it special bottled for you (Jack Daniel's, Four Roses) but they seem to be for after aging. I would like to have a barrel marked for him before it is put down to age.

StoPPeRmobile:taeodong:Knob Creek so sweet. I feel like I'm getting a cavity when I have it.

Kinda sweet i guess, but when i think sweet i think irish whiskey... like 18 year jameson.. also.. was something i kept stocked in my bar.. until a friend drank the bottle with some coke.. His body may or may not be in my back yard.

misthop:This would be as good a place as any to ask a question I've had.

I have a 4 month old son. I think it would be cool to have a barrel of Whiskey, Bourbon or (gasp) Rye put down for him to be bottled when he becomes a certain age. I've seen offers where you can pick a barrel and have it special bottled for you (Jack Daniel's, Four Roses) but they seem to be for after aging. I would like to have a barrel marked for him before it is put down to age.

Any ideas?

If you're looking to extend the aging of an existing whiskey, you can pick up used oak barrels from most homebrew supply shops or other online retailers. If you're looking to create your own whiskey from a neutral spirit (vodka, everclear, white lightening*) then check these guys out for a virgin charred oak barrel.

misthop:This would be as good a place as any to ask a question I've had.

I have a 4 month old son. I think it would be cool to have a barrel of Whiskey, Bourbon or (gasp) Rye put down for him to be bottled when he becomes a certain age. I've seen offers where you can pick a barrel and have it special bottled for you (Jack Daniel's, Four Roses) but they seem to be for after aging. I would like to have a barrel marked for him before it is put down to age.

Any ideas?

When you join the Maker's Mark Ambassador club your name goes on a barrel, about 8 years later you're invited to the distillery to dip a bottle containing the bourbon from your barrel.

If you're looking to extend the aging of an existing whiskey, you can pick up used oak barrels from most homebrew supply shops or other online retailers. If you're looking to create your own whiskey from a neutral spirit (vodka, everclear, white lightening*) then check these guys out for a virgin charred oak barrel.*note: applicable laws may vary for your location.

meat0918:Jim_Callahan: TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Also, on a similar note to my previous post, Whisky and Whiskey are just different transliterations of an old British Isles word for "water". They aren't separate things and you can just write one or the other, like Hercules and Herakles when you're talking about Greek mythology.

//Aware that z-C already made the second point in the form of a joke, but some people are genuinely confused on the point and I'm feeling educational.

You'd be surprised how many vodkas aren't made from potatoes. Besides, it's just Russian for "Little Water"

I was shocked how many hard liquors are corn based, fermented up, then distilled (because ethanol is ethanol), then diluted back down to the appropriate proof and flavors added.

This of course varies on what type of distillation method you're using. I'm still researching things myself.

//Corn mash rules the liquor world apparently

Hell, you might be shocked even harder. A lot of "Boutique" distillers, and purvayers of rot gut may just be buying industrial NGS (Neutral Grain Spirit) by the 55 gallon drum and redistilling it to get it to potable ranges of purity.

Where does NGS come from? Many places, but one big one is brewery waste water. AB for example. Most of their brewery plants have a separate sewage system. For collecting all the spilt beer and rinse water from the operation. That waste water is distilled of its ethanol and that is sold off as NGS to third party distributors as an industrial product. The majority of it is used as ethanol gasoline additive, but some of it gets turned into vodka

Cerebral Knievel:meat0918: Jim_Callahan: TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Also, on a similar note to my previous post, Whisky and Whiskey are just different transliterations of an old British Isles word for "water". They aren't separate things and you can just write one or the other, like Hercules and Herakles when you're talking about Greek mythology.

//Aware that z-C already made the second point in the form of a joke, but some people are genuinely confused on the point and I'm feeling educational.

You'd be surprised how many vodkas aren't made from potatoes. Besides, it's just Russian for "Little Water"

I was shocked how many hard liquors are corn based, fermented up, then distilled (because ethanol is ethanol), then diluted back down to the appropriate proof and flavors added.

This of course varies on what type of distillation method you're using. I'm still researching things myself.

//Corn mash rules the liquor world apparently

Hell, you might be shocked even harder. A lot of "Boutique" distillers, and purvayers of rot gut may just be buying industrial NGS (Neutral Grain Spirit) by the 55 gallon drum and redistilling it to get it to potable ranges of purity.

Where does NGS come from? Many places, but one big one is brewery waste water. AB for example. Most of their brewery plants have a separate sewage system. For collecting all the spilt beer and rinse water from the operation. That waste water is distilled of its ethanol and that is sold off as NGS to third party distributors as an industrial product. The majority of it is used as ethanol gasoline additive, but some of it gets turned into vodka

Actually, not really. I figured if I am doing it with NGS for homemade liqueurs, someone is doing it on a more massive scale.

It's ethanol. The rest is just flavoring it and marketing it appropriately.

Cerebral Knievel:Where does NGS come from? Many places, but one big one is brewery waste water. AB for example. Most of their brewery plants have a separate sewage system. For collecting all the spilt beer and rinse water from the operation. That waste water is distilled of its ethanol and that is sold off as NGS to third party distributors as an industrial product. The majority of it is used as ethanol gasoline additive, but some of it gets turned into vodka

meat0918:Cerebral Knievel: meat0918: Jim_Callahan: TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Also, on a similar note to my previous post, Whisky and Whiskey are just different transliterations of an old British Isles word for "water". They aren't separate things and you can just write one or the other, like Hercules and Herakles when you're talking about Greek mythology.

//Aware that z-C already made the second point in the form of a joke, but some people are genuinely confused on the point and I'm feeling educational.

You'd be surprised how many vodkas aren't made from potatoes. Besides, it's just Russian for "Little Water"

I was shocked how many hard liquors are corn based, fermented up, then distilled (because ethanol is ethanol), then diluted back down to the appropriate proof and flavors added.

This of course varies on what type of distillation method you're using. I'm still researching things myself.

//Corn mash rules the liquor world apparently

Hell, you might be shocked even harder. A lot of "Boutique" distillers, and purvayers of rot gut may just be buying industrial NGS (Neutral Grain Spirit) by the 55 gallon drum and redistilling it to get it to potable ranges of purity.

Where does NGS come from? Many places, but one big one is brewery waste water. AB for example. Most of their brewery plants have a separate sewage system. For collecting all the spilt beer and rinse water from the operation. That waste water is distilled of its ethanol and that is sold off as NGS to third party distributors as an industrial product. The majority of it is used as ethanol gasoline additive, but some of it gets turned into vodka

Actually, not really. I figured if I am doing it with NGS for homemade liqueurs, someone is doing it on a more massive scale.

It's ethanol. The rest is just flavoring it and marketing it appropriately.

I wasn't trying to shock ya, or scare ya, ;) I was just trying to point out another source of the stuff that a lot of folks might not be aware of.

And you are quite right, it's all ethanol until you make it something else.

Vodak, of course, by definition, is supposed to not carry it's own flavor. A base ethanol to build up on in mixology. It makes sense for the stuff to be as pure and inoffensive as possible, just disregard the origin source of the spirit and you will be fine. I'm sure one could make a very fine whiskey using brewery run off derived NGS if one were to triple distill it to potable then treated s normal to the boubonization process.

And with this post, I have added "Vodak" to my smartphone custom dictionary.

Jim_Callahan:TheWhoppah: Whisky and whiskey are fundamentally just "wood tea" made with vodak instead of water.

Grain mash. Vodka would be potatoes. Also they're distilled and often blended, which is kind of the opposite of how tea works (tea goes from a concentrate to a dilute through its processing, whiskey goes the other way).

Most Vodka, including the top-shelf stuff, is distilled from grain mash instead of potatoes and has been for decades.

dc0012c:telkinsjr: Wife got me a bottle of this for Christmas. I'm in love with it . . . (and her)

[www.whiskyadvocateblog.com image 400x1024]

Ooh-hah! Love Pappy.

As far as the ship-aged craze, I would be interested in trying some of the IPA that was hopped to hell and put aboard for the duration of a London-to-Mumbai trip.

Ah, part of the history lesson I give when i do the brew tour! Look for any IPA done in the English style rather than the american style. Should be hoppy upfront, and malty in the finish and around 7.5 to 9% abv.

The hops and alcohol are there as preservatives. So they will be dry and boozy. Good bitterness, but not a tremendous amount of hop flavor, should get a decent fusal burn, but not much, it is beer after all.

Keep in mind that hops were used as a perservative and acid blend to balance out the malt sweetness of the brew. If you were to take a colonial brewer and put them in front of a modern hophead, the brewer would be confused about the hophead gushing. For, to the brewer, what the hop head would be gushing about would be like someone for now times gushing about how the thing really brings out the character of the potasium sorbate.

There would be enough booze and hops to keep the stuff anti microbial and sanitary depending on the length of the journey. Colonial era IPA was designed to keep colonists and sea men of dieing of waterborne disease than to get them drunk.So, what yer looking for is something that has nothing but mild boozy ness, and basic bitter, but overall, kind of watery believe it or not.

Yep, a start up sized "craft" level tower starts around $20k thats without all the support equipment. You would be good to have a couple hundred grand in backing, and hope those investor's can wait 10+ years for any kind of return. The first five years or so yer cranking out young liqueurs and vodkas to pay the bill.

Its a fools errand, and it could take 15 years to make enough money to personally survive on.