We must stop apologizing for our positions on moral issues, and must not allow ourselves to be dragged down into the PC mud. What the left fails to comprehend is that some things are WRONG, period. No further dissection of why they are wrong is necessary nor is it productive. If the typical five-year-old knows that two men "marrying" each other is wrong, or that it is wrong for little boys and girls to be forced to use the same restroom facilities, then none of us should waste our time replying to leftist demands to explain why these things are wrong.

That's their favorite tactic. You're opposed to "gay marriage" - Why? You're opposed to unisex restrooms - Why? Why, why, why? They want to take every moral concept that is self-evident and make you question it and force you to have to justify it. Don't take the bait.

The only proper response to such stupidity is ridicule and scorn. They want to portray themselves as representing the mainstream, but they are actually the EXTREME lunatic fringe. Treat them as such and move on. And do this with the rest of the PC litany of nonsense, as well. We must reverse the semi-respectability that these crazy ideas are gaining by immediately dismissing them as immoral nuttiness every time they are raised. If enough people consistently do this, rather than allowing themselves to be guilted into discussing the alleged merits of said nutty ideas, then it might just begin to rub off on the rest of our fellow citizens.

We must stop apologizing for our positions on moral issues, and must not allow ourselves to be dragged down into the PC mud. What the left fails to comprehend is that some things are WRONG, period.You're telling me that I should not have right to inheritance when the man I love dies, no right to be with him in the hospital, other than as a "friend," no right to make decisions as his next of kin...you have to do a fuck of a lot better than "It's just wrong."

No further dissection of why they are wrong is necessary nor is it productive. If the typical five-year-old knows that two men "marrying" each other is wrong, or that it is wrong for little boys and girls to be forced to use the same restroom facilities...They only know it's wrong because they're told it's wrong.

...then none of us should waste our time replying to leftist demands to explain why these things are wrong.So..."We're right, you're wrong, suck it up, and be happy about it." No, I think not.

That's their favorite tactic. You're opposed to "gay marriage" - Why? You're opposed to unisex restrooms - Why? Why, why, why? They want to take every moral concept that is self-evident and make you question it and force you to have to justify it. Don't take the bait.No, we're making two points. One, you have no valid rationale, as you're proving wonderfully. If not, "why" wouldn't be so banal. And two, that your reasons are not based in logic, but prejudices. Otherwise, you'd have an answer, and not being coming here whining about how the evil queers and queer enablers have the audacity to QUESTION you.

The only proper response to such stupidity is ridicule and scorn. They want to portray themselves as representing the mainstream, but they are actually the EXTREME lunatic fringe.Except most people either support gay rights, or are indifferent to them. It's people like you wo are the fringe, my friend. Those so insecure about their sexuality that they fear that the mere presence of homosexuals will creak that closet door open for all the world to see.

Treat them as such and move on. And do this with the rest of the PC litany of nonsense, as well. We must reverse the semi-respectability that these crazy ideas are gaining by immediately dismissing them as immoral nuttiness every time they are raised.Ah, ignore them, and they'll go away. Gotcha. No, sorry, we're not just gonna disappear.

If enough people consistently do this, rather than allowing themselves to be guilted into discussing the alleged merits of said nutty ideas, then it might just begin to rub off on the rest of our fellow citizens.Oh, we discuss them. At length. Aside from the human rights issues, we have pragmatic benefits that are needed, as I mentioned earlier. Benefits that are quite unfair to be denied. And the best you have is "But it's...it's just WRONG, okay!" No. You're losing. Deal with it.

Having reasons for your opposition is bad. Unquestioning acceptance of Bronze-Age dogmas is good. You're more honest than you intend to be. Also, while you decry the PC crowd, you think just like them.

Because they are not self-evident concepts to us. They seem more like deluded fantasies. If you can't justify it, then it can't be that sound, can it?

A typical five-year-old is a parrot of his parents views on life. He doesn't have the intelligence nor the maturity to form his own views, and he won't get it for another eight years or so.

A typical five-year-old in Sweden is so used to using the same restroom facilities, it bothers him just as much (or as little) as using the same pavements or the same trains.
The same thing with same-sex partnership, it's of no more interest to him if Mary and John marries, than if Mary and Jane marries. Just as long as he gets to eat cake and play with the other kids, he don't care about who's marrying who.

Killing others is WRONG.
Restricting other people's access to health care is WRONG.
Polluting our air and our water is WRONG.
Not paying a full-time worker a living wage is WRONG.
Abusing others is WRONG.
Infringe on other people's human rights is WRONG.

"We must stop apologizing for our positions on moral issues, and must not allow ourselves to be dragged down into the PC mud."

I've yet to see you guys apologize for anything that matters. Oh, sure. I see you Republicans apologize when one of the men of your party gets caught with his boyfriend in a bathroom or hotel room and I see you apologize when one of you gets caught cheating on your wife and I see you apologize for other pointless shit but I've yet to see any of you offer an apology for ruining the country for eight years. Instead, all I see is you guys saying, "Look at the good job we did last time! Let us have another go at it! (Obama's a secret Muslim!)"

"The only proper response to such stupidity is ridicule and scorn."

Ridicule and scorn didn't win you the election and hasn't made you any headway toward anything but fracturing your party into the extreme lunatics and the less extreme lunatics.

Perhaps you should try a different strategy.

"We must reverse the semi-respectability that these crazy ideas are gaining by immediately dismissing them as immoral nuttiness every time they are raised."

I've always wanted to ask a Republican this: who the hell made you the Morality Police?

"If enough people consistently do this, rather than allowing themselves to be guilted into discussing the alleged merits of said nutty ideas, then it might just begin to rub off on the rest of our fellow citizens."

You know, I am kind of opposed to unisex bathrooms because I was raised in a society that for the most part doesn't employ them. BUT I did work in a place that had one, and that was the only bathroom, and it wasn't an issue, really, except for when you ran into the person you had a crush on while they were tucking their shirt back into their pants and that was kind of embarrassing. But yeah, you know, when you have a group of sane adults, no one gets raped or murdered or sees anyone else's naughty bits, or whatever you're thinking. Would I have RATHER had regular one sex only bathrooms? Yeah, kinda. But you make do.

At one time or another, your kind said the same thing about abolition, school integration, and giving women the vote.
All those measures were fought tooth and nail by the right-wing and the religiously impaired.
You lost those fights and you will lose this one too.

People like this are quite amusing, if a little depressing as well. They cling so tightly to their little fantasy of moral and metaphysical certainty, like it's a life-preserver in a turbulent ocean. It'd be hilarious if it weren't so common an attitude. In any case, Noiseman, there is no such thing as an absolute moral value, let alone a self-evident one, so your opinion falls apart right at the start. Also, I think a five year-old is more likely to ask you 'why?' over and over than they are to harbour inexplicable bigotry.

"If the typical five-year-old knows that two men 'marrying' each other is wrong ..."

I was 5 when I entered school in recently desegregated Southern elementary school.
The first day of class I and a black girl made friends before class and talked and kidded around then and during breaks.
At the end of the school day, the teacher's assistant, a white lady from my SOB (Southern Baptist) church told me that "little white boys and little black girls don't play together."*
My point is that kids don't "know" that bullshit prejudices of their elders are "wrong." And unless you're a racist fuck as well as a homophobic fuck, you would agree that what the woman told me that day was racist bullshit. The same as the bullshit you're spewing.
Hate is taught, and people like you, noiseboy, are the teachers. Fuck you and everybody who looks like you -- well at least everybody who thinks like you.

* I later learned that white boys and black girls can have quite a bit of fun playing together.