Leaking trans input seal...not sure

If you've been following my rebuild thread, you are aware that I pulled the trans yesterday and found the splines to be bone dry and rusted. You also saw in the photos that the below the clutch and in the trans bellows there was some oil and grease. Some of this grease was the moly spline lube that got thrown. There was also some other oil as well though.

I read the experts site with the compulsory welding glasses and he states that a seal replacement can be easy if it comes out or difficult if it does not....he also says that a leaking seal would result in oily splines and a slipping clutch.....I have the opposite...rusty splines and a grabby clutch.

I have smelled the oil and it does not have a strong sulfur smell. The only place I can find any hint of sulfur is if I pick some moly crud out of around the seal and shaft gap....probably due to weeping.

All you see this photo is sticky and goopy, not runny and oily. A NAPA moly spline paste was used..not the best stuff

Seriously though...Since the crud around the seal doesn't appear to be tranny fluid, I'd clean it up, apply the correct grease to the splines (can't tell if the splines took a hit or not from the picture) and reassemble with the new clutch plate.

A leaking seal would have way more spray pattern and you could tell from the smell. Doesn't appear to be the case here. The little bit of spray on the seal could be the remnants of whatever oil/grease/whatever was used before.

I would replace. Coming from me that says alot, cuz I'm a lazy bastard.
This would end as one of those moments of " dogdammit, I knew I should have replaced that effin seal while I had the box out!! $*^%#@%@ "
But hey, that's just me.

I would replace. Coming from me that says alot, cuz I'm a lazy bastard.
This would end as one of those moments of " dogdammit, I knew I should have replaced that effin seal while I had the box out!! $*^%#@%@ "
But hey, that's just me.

Click to expand...

Ehe, with my luck the seal would be welded in there and I would have to open the case and spend more money. This is the third time I have had this trans out of this bike and it's been about 9 months. If it fails....I can pull it and fix it then.

First off: Dry and rusty splines. That is how even grossly over lubed splines like I suspect yours were get real quick. Don't expect those splines to stay wet because they don't. Therein lies the importance of using moly lube. It lubricates after it is dry.

Personally, I would replace the seal because I can't imagine how the splines could get THAT over lubed but . . . . That seal can be a bugger to get out without tearing the seal boss and/or the shaft's sealing surface up. I have been running into a bunch of that in the last few years so beware. The seal can come out without disassembling the tranny. I have some custom tools for it that make the job much easier in my opinion. They are common seal pullers ground to a much thinner thickness.

You should stop and ask yourself why you need to pull it apart so much. I suspect the answer is doing a half ass job. Do it right. Maybe it is money but saving money that way really cost you money and TIME that you could be riding! You will actually be learning how to wrench well instead of just hacking. MUCH better for the bike AND the soul! I hope you take this as good advise and not criticism.

When I was a kid people didn't learn how to wrench on rare and classic machines. They saved that for the more common stuff. I always advise to learn how to work on Kawasaki KE100's or the like. When you irreversibly hack one of those up, who cares? They spit them out by the Mcmillions AND they still make them I believe. It's just that I have been seeing some needlessly hacked up airheads lately. It's a shame IMO.

Hey, no worries on the rant. I do it far too much as well. That's what happens when impassioned folks get involved with things.

Like you I have seen far too many airheads get buggard up so I know far too well where you are coming from. This is also the reason I'm not going to pull it for now. The oil you see is not hypoid. Its engine oil. I would imagine it is getting sucked up by the low pressure formed by the rotating flywheel from here:

For an explanation on my history with this bike and why I've had to pull the trans three times. Read this post, not half ass, well maybe quarter assed: Am I crazy or go for it

First off: Dry and rusty splines. That is how even grossly over lubed splines like I suspect yours were get real quick. Don't expect those splines to stay wet because they don't. Therein lies the importance of using moly lube. It lubricates after it is dry.

Personally, I would replace the seal because I can't imagine how the splines could get THAT over lubed but . . . . That seal can be a bugger to get out without tearing the seal boss and/or the shaft's sealing surface up. I have been running into a bunch of that in the last few years so beware. The seal can come out without disassembling the tranny. I have some custom tools for it that make the job much easier in my opinion. They are common seal pullers ground to a much thinner thickness.

You should stop and ask yourself why you need to pull it apart so much. I suspect the answer is doing a half ass job. Do it right. Maybe it is money but saving money that way really cost you money and TIME that you could be riding! You will actually be learning how to wrench well instead of just hacking. MUCH better for the bike AND the soul! I hope you take this as good advise and not criticism.

When I was a kid people didn't learn how to wrench on rare and classic machines. They saved that for the more common stuff. I always advise to learn how to work on Kawasaki KE100's or the like. When you irreversibly hack one of those up, who cares? They spit them out by the Mcmillions AND they still make them I believe. It's just that I have been seeing some needlessly hacked up airheads lately. It's a shame IMO.

Hey, no worries on the rant. I do it far too much as well. That's what happens when impassioned folks get involved with things.

Like you I have seen far too many airheads get buggard up so I know far too well where you are coming from. This is also the reason I'm not going to pull it for now. The oil you see is not hypoid. Its engine oil. I would imagine it is getting sucked up by the low pressure formed by the rotating flywheel from here:

For an explanation on my history with this bike and why I've had to pull the trans three times. Read this post, not half ass, well maybe quarter assed: Am I crazy or go for it

Thank you though for your concern

Click to expand...

THAT'S why I don't know what is going on! For some reason, I tend to avoid threads that get too long IMO. Obviously some people like them but I guess I don't for some reason?

Thanks TR for reading my rant with your boots on. This is the idiotnet after all. You have GOT to keep your boots on!!

1. I'd replace. It's a cheap part and easy to do. Did it on mine in 10 minutes.
2. Your pictures are getting much better. A good thread like yours is 10x as nice when we can see how f**ked up your bike is. Are you using the G12?

I just got done with 5 hours of Matt Parkhouse. My R100GS is ready to hit the road to it's new owner.

1. I'd replace. It's a cheap part and easy to do. Did it on mine in 10 minutes.
2. Your pictures are getting much better. A good thread like yours is 10x as nice when we can see how f**ked up your bike is. Are you using the G12?

I just got done with 5 hours of Matt Parkhouse. My R100GS is ready to hit the road to it's new owner.

Tom

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm. Must think about this. Any photos on the procedure?

Yeah I'm using the G12 and the eye-fi card. Wonderful setup. The worst part however is taking the photos with my greasy paws.

I do have to give you credit for your careful restoration. In just cleaning my trans up tonight and I went through 24 q tips and the thing is still filthy.... simply amazing

Kind of glad I took it apart...it is kind of f**ked up. Nothing major though. Just a lot of mild neglect and enough problem areas left to make the bike a ticking time bomb for a break down.

Looking at the clutch picture..I'd say you have a leak back there (duh). Drop the clutch plate and flywheel -new bolts for both- and see if the spray is around the main seal or just at the bottom...the oil pump cover.

If OPC, replace O ring and make sure you tap all 4 holes to get the gunk out and clean the bolts too. If not, the bolts will bottom out before they should if you use a torque wrench and the cover will still leak.

Looking at the clutch picture..I'd say you have a leak back there (duh). Drop the clutch plate and flywheel -new bolts for both- and see if the spray is around the main seal or just at the bottom...the oil pump cover.

If OPC, replace O ring and make sure you tap all 4 holes to get the gunk out and clean the bolts too. If not, the bolts will bottom out before they should if you use a torque wrench and the cover will still leak.

If main seal that's been covered here plenty of times.

Click to expand...

My guess...it's the Oil pump as i did not clean out the threads, nor torque them properly in NM. The RMS has been done before and technically should be fine, though I am prepared to replace again if need be. (Got the right tools this time!!!)

I will ask this question now as I will have to in the future. What is the accepted torque value for the fly wheel bolts and the clutch bolts? I understand there has been some discussion on this.

I really don't understand why you would use blue loctite on flywheel bolts or clutch cover bolts. The only useful purpose I can think of is if it helps you remember to tighten them in the first place.

I don't think there is any reason to use new 11mm flywheel bolts unless they are buggered up. BMW says the same especially if you use the oiled torque value. 76ftlb dry and 92ftlb oiled. BMW recommends oiling them but I have seen NO issues using the dry torque value with no loctite.

Cover bolts are 21NM. I recommend using an inch pound torque wrench on those. Too loose and they fall out. Too tight and the star washer will split and then they fall out. It's a fairly fine line. If the bolts are real good, I re-use them. ALWAYS use new star washers.