If you are new to the forums, you must register a free account before you can post. The forums have a separate registration from the rest of www.chronofhorse.com, so your log in information for one will not automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

[QUOTE=katarine;7380617]If you've never had love from a person, how deeply can you mourn not having had it? He NEVER loved his daughter, she cannot deeply miss what she never, ever had. She was shown over and over again- go away, be punished, Go Away.

Yet some here believe there's some freaking Hallmark moment pending. BS. No, he doesn't deserve the opportunity to hurt her yet again, and she's finally learned how to avoid that blender.

To those who think secrets will feel bad for not reaching out- you have no idea how permanent and real an emotional wall can - and should - be.

Best wishes for you in all that you do, secrets.[/QUOTE

Yes, she can deeply miss what she never had, because we are wired to have certain needs. We look up to our parents and are wired to learn from them, and to expect that they'll keep us safe and teach us how to love and be human.

Believe me, you know what you missed, and it is really, really hard to fully accept that it will never be. Anger helps with self-presevation, but you can't fully move on if you still harbor a lot of anger. An emotional wall can keep other things out (and in) in ways that aren't healthy.

Anyway, there are lots of resources out there, depending on your need / goals. Here are a couple:

OK I'm not telling you to do this, but it worked for my 2 friends. No they did not do it for their fathers, but they did it for themselves so that they could say that they were better people than their fathers were.

First friend, actually the husband of a friend. His father had beaten him badly when he was a child. And each Saturday would take him to town with a collar around his neck, and jerking him around by a leash. not one person in that little GA town intervened, and his mother ignored the abuse. When he got old enough, he left. Got a job, married my friend, had kids, worked hard and got ahead. Years later when his father was dying in a nursing home, same town and all, he got the call. He told his wife he needed to go just to show he was the better person. My friend told him to go, and so did I. While his father did not ask his forgiveness, my friend's husband told his father he forgave him. After he got back from the nursing home, he told us that he felt better for telling his father that he had forgiven him.

Second was friend who worked in Brunswick. Growing up in NJ, she had father who had great job at IBM and traveled. He had a mistress and children elsewhere. Was never home with his wife and 2 kids on holidays. Finally he left them for his 2nd family. When my friend was a VISTA teacher, she had a wreck. He called her in hospital and told her not to expect him to pay for anything. ( her mother had a boutique in NJ and had paid all expenses except college for both her kids.) Anne's father sent her a bill for her college education. When he was dying in NC, she told me she was going up there for herself. When she got back, she said she told her father she forgave him. He did not tell Anne he was sorry. But she said she felt a lot better knowing that she had done that for herself.

Only you OP can make the decision. But the fact that you have started this thread and told us about it, means that you might want to go and forgive your father for your own good. I guess a lot of these people who are so cruel to their children are afraid on their death beds that they are going to hell. If there is a hell, they are going. But you saying you forgive him will only make a difference in how you feel about yourself. It won't give him a pass to heaven. You are successful in spite of the horrible childhood you had. he cannot control you anymore. Giving him forgiveness won't excuse his abuse. Both of my friends said they felt better about themselves for going and forgiving their fathers on their death beds. But you decide what is best for your mental health and future.

OK I'm not telling you to do this, but it worked for my 2 friends. No they did not do it for their fathers, but they did it for themselves so that they could say that they were better people than their fathers were.

First friend, actually the husband of a friend. His father had beaten him badly when he was a child. And each Saturday would take him to town with a collar around his neck, and jerking him around by a leash. not one person in that little GA town intervened, and his mother ignored the abuse. When he got old enough, he left. Got a job, married my friend, had kids, worked hard and got ahead. Years later when his father was dying in a nursing home, same town and all, he got the call. He told his wife he needed to go just to show he was the better person. My friend told him to go, and so did I. While his father did not ask his forgiveness, my friend's husband told his father he forgave him. After he got back from the nursing home, he told us that he felt better for telling his father that he had forgiven him.

Second was friend who worked in Brunswick. Growing up in NJ, she had father who had great job at IBM and traveled. He had a mistress and children elsewhere. Was never home with his wife and 2 kids on holidays. Finally he left them for his 2nd family. When my friend was a VISTA teacher, she had a wreck. He called her in hospital and told her not to expect him to pay for anything. ( her mother had a boutique in NJ and had paid all expenses except college for both her kids.) Anne's father sent her a bill for her college education. When he was dying in NC, she told me she was going up there for herself. When she got back, she said she told her father she forgave him. He did not tell Anne he was sorry. But she said she felt a lot better knowing that she had done that for herself.

Only you OP can make the decision. But the fact that you have started this thread and told us about it, means that you might want to go and forgive your father for your own good. I guess a lot of these people who are so cruel to their children are afraid on their death beds that they are going to hell. If there is a hell, they are going. But you saying you forgive him will only make a difference in how you feel about yourself. It won't give him a pass to heaven. You are successful in spite of the horrible childhood you had. he cannot control you anymore. Giving him forgiveness won't excuse his abuse. Both of my friends said they felt better about themselves for going and forgiving their fathers on their death beds. But you decide what is best for your mental health and future.

Well, for our family, that would have not made any sense.
If any of us were to tell our mother that we "forgive" her, she would not have understood.
She never thought she was doing anything but her duty as a parent, as she saw it.

Not only that, we didn't have any to "forgive", she was who she was, for her own reasons.
We were dealt those cards to be her family just as she was to be so mean to us.
All of us did the best we could with what we had, forgiving doesn't enter the picture there.

Now, we don't know where the OP is coming from in this, that is for her to figure, just as everyone else has to in their lives.

I don't think one even has to forgive a parent ( though if it makes sense to them it is appropriate), nor does there have to be a "hallmark moment". But I do think reaching out with a simple phone call or card or letter, if nothing else, to a dying parent if at all doable, could be valuable in ways one can't know at the time.

That's not the same as opening up a relationship with a living abusive parent that will go on and on...these parents are dying. So even if the grown child has one uncomfortable or difficult day dealing with the visit/phone call/card is that so awful, in the scheme of things?

A friend of mine also grew up with an abusive difficult father but he did provide for family and there were some good times .. She went to visit him as he was dying and he told her how sorry he was. It happens. Even if it doesn't happen and the visit is a dud, or disappointing, it will be noticed and can mean a lot, and at least you did a good thing which counts for peacefully ending this chapter of someone's life.

I don't think anyone's bad for not doing it, but it might be better, even a little bit, if they do reach out at the very end...I guess it feels like a primal thing...a parent did raise us and give us life...we wouldn't be here, frankly, if not for them, awful and disappointing and crazy as they were....just feels so cold and odd to act like someone did not exist, even if that someone was an awful person...they did exist, they did matter, maybe their horridness made you a better person, or at least the person you are....just my thoughts, it's a very personal decision.

I just don't feel it. I don't really give a shit if either one of them lives or dies. I guess this makes me a bad person. You should love your parents. I wish I could love my parents. ...

I know he thinks he is a good person which is what kills me.

Living by 'shoulds' is an exhausting, useless proposition. Better to live by what you find as your dignity and integrity.

I hope you have or find a good therapist to help you come to peace with your past. You don't feel anything probably because it hurts so much. And because your father/mother are blind to who they are (often self awareness is absent in abusers). You have been abused and some of the on-going interactions with you dad are continuing to stress and traumatize you.

What you wrote is a very brave thing. You should take pride in who you have made yourself. I wish you much peace as process and come to terms with an incredibly difficult childhood. Best wishes and much kindness to yourself.

But, Trakhener, how do you not wish for what could have been or should have been? Of course they don't deserve our time and energy, but being able to not feel so sad about not having that is so hard.

You only get what you get...you can wish for lots of stuff or what "should" have been...but that doesn't mean you'll get it. Life's not fair, the whole trick is to not act the same way to the loved ones in your life. I'm a big believer in it's never too hate to have a good childhood. I was lucky, lots of great adults in my life at the barn who gave me the adult role models and support. I've tried to pay it back.

I am so so sorry for everything you've endured. Both of your parents deserve to rot in hell for what they did to you.

If you want nothing more to do with him/them, change your phone number and don't tell them what it is. If they send you mail, send it back unopened or burn it. You have every right to cut off all contact for your own health and sanity.

If you want to say a final "screw you" to him, feel free, but don't expect him to care.

You are not a bad person. You are an incredible, amazing, strong, resilient woman who has much to be proud of.

I don't know how comfortable you are with discussing your past, but perhaps you could find a way to help other young people going through similar things.. Maybe talking to people at a shelter or talking to students at a school. If it's something you would feel okay with, it might help others to know that such abuse is not okay and there is hope.

Again, I'm so sorry. My heart breaks for you and your siblings. I hope you are able to find peace.

Be selfish. Decide what course of action will help YOU, will make YOU feel better, and follow it.

If this sounds heartless, I apologize. But every time I see this thread I think "jimmy crack corn and I don't care". Must be my way of deflecting really heavy duty stuff to ponder on. And op, in a nutshell, you are not diminished because you don't have an emotional 7nvestment in his end of life. Some hurts can't be rectified. Not your fault.

There is a lot of good written here, and empathy from people who have waked the walk. I, too, think you are a survivor and you are NOT a bad person and stop internalising it to yourself....do not think that again. Take all the advice you can, and read what you can....it is ok. Perhaps a card, written from your heart, will help, because in cases like this there is a long time to regret not doing something. I've fallen short in the past and wished I'd made a small effort. COTH does have a lot of understanding people.
Take care and be good to yourself first.

My father had a massive heart attack a few months after the first post in this thread, almost a year ago. He did not die.

My mother in her sweet but venomous way told me that he was under heavy sedation and could not see any visitors. His nurse called me a few days later wondering why nobody called.

I visited him every day in the hospital at the expense of my own health. I got up at 7, worked until 5, drove 2 hours and held his hand until 11, got home at 2 or 3 am... and did it again. And again. until i fell really quite ill.

He wound up making it. My mother did not, she passed away last month.

My mother did not have a will. I know she had a significant amount of money saved after her fathers estate was dispersed. She hid it away in secret accounts because she knew he would spend it as fast as possible. Even in death she was disengaged in life.

The most important thing we did after she died was go to the bank, so i could sign over her estate. At some point i made a snide remake about his needing to spend it as fast as possible. He said "now you sound like your fucking mother".

I'm so sorry. I'm sorry you put the time and energy into that evil piece of crap. I'm sorry you hurt yourself. I get it. I did it. I have disengaged, but I still think almost constantly of my mother.

Please get some kind of counseling or support so you can take care of yourself. I need to get myself back into the anxiety classes and work on the refocusing on my life and looking forward, not wishing what I had hoped would happen.

Now my dad is getting old to the point of death and wants to reconnect with me

%$#@ him...it's all about him and always has been. My father was never abusive but he never had much to do with his kids. He is extremely moody and a few years ago he gave me shit about not calling him when one of my brothers was up visiting. I told him to NEVER talk to me like that again...and you know what? He didn't. But I also don't go out of my way to communicate with him.
He only saw us when he was in the mood after my mother divorced him.
Save yourself, you don't owe him anything.

"The stumbler doesn’t build her life by being better than others, but by being better than she used to be."
David Brooks

I am sorry about all the hurt you had to suffer in your childhood....and still going on. You owe your parents nothing....absolutely nothing. You have to protect yourself and if that means not having any communication...so be it. Sometimes there is nothing we can do for others without hurting ourselves and that is no way to live.
Stay strong and be proud that you became such a successful woman despite all the abuse you went through....very admirable!