Sparker wrote:I have been following this discussion with interest, and am learning a lot, but not enough to contribute intelligently. I would however observe that in discussing specific details of what was and wasn't worn in the field, the regulations, tailors notes etc should not be taken as gospel. Quite apart from the challenges of maintaining correct standards of dress in the field on campaing, soldiers will go to extraordinary lengths to alter the cut and appearance of their uniform, both to display some individuality and also to express subtle differences between companies and battalions of the same regiment. I would expect that the amount of turnback and lapel display would have been one of the prime means of achieving this during this era.

Whilst senior NCO's would have been constantly clamping down on displays of individuality, the company and battalion 'unofficial' differences might well have been tolerated, even encouraged...

Think of it as the way 6th formers change the size and length of their school ties to show how 'cool' and senior they are...and the difference between the mannequin displaying the official school uniform in the Commissary and what you actually see the kids wearing!

actually in the SYW starndards remained quite high..one Prussian supply train was ambushed and to the disgust of the pandours all it contained were new uniform coats..and the pace of campaigning usually lacked the forced marches and urgency of of later periods so indeed hair was dressed , pipeclay was applied and uniforms were mended and no they didn't alter their uniforms at whim,, this would lead to serious problems to those involved usually begining with a beating by an NCO , and in the Prussian army the running of the gauntlet..They were very serious.. they were not in any way naughty 6th formers and to think of them as such is just plain wrong..they were extremely disciplined and constantly under the eyes of NCOs and officers..it was not an age of indvidualism..it was everybody eyes front . neck stocks tight and no talking in the ranks..they did not alter their coats or whatever..there is no evidence whatsoever to think they did this or engage in any other indviduall tailoring ..the mens' comfort was of little or no concern of anybody whtasoever ..suffer in silence and don't bugger up your kit..

and I think it amusing that you can imagine officers would tolerate and encourge difference..I think not, officers would abhore the different even more so than NCOs and they certainly would stamp it out and have the offender beaten at least

Well I certainly don't have any evidence to back up my hunch, except that whilst draconian discipline would certainly be reflected in all the official and outward show and records, its actually quite hard to run an operational unit that way...Take for example the 'running of the gauntlet you mention. A Commanding Officer, or more especially his Adjutant, would have to be pretty sure that the soldiery shared the command's feelings on the crime in question, or such a punishment, relying on a common sense of outrage, could rapidly turn into a farce if the soldiers in general sympathised with the prisoner. The slightest risk of such an event turning into a circus and the soldiers mocking the system would have disasterous consequences for discipline and morale. An Infantry Battalion can't, and has never been, successfully run as a penal colony or slave estate..

I certainly feel that minor differences in the way uniform was worn within a particular battlion of a regiment, for example, would have been felt to contribute to a sense of belonging.

There has been a watershed in historical thought about the 18thC Royal Navy for example, a realisation from more vernacular quotidian primary sources that the officially and publicly much vaunted brutal discipline was actually much more relaxed than the official face of the records might suggest:http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/em ... a_01.shtml

Its always worth remembering that the official primary sources for this period will reflect the state of discipline as the establishment wanted them to be, certainly any informal turning of a 'blind eye' to uniform infringements tacitly sanctioned would not have been recorded on paper when most of these soldier were illiterate, and the committing of thoughts and memories to paper a rare and special thing, not worth the recording of every day trivia taken for granted...

On land it was as brutal as it was recorded..the Brits were thought of as bit soft compared to the Prussians and the Russians.The Austrians were the most enlightened and the French actually could have done with some good lashings..The whole point of a good 18th century army was the fact that the men were more afraid of their officers and NCOs than they were of the enemy..the more terrified of their upper echelons generally the better they performed under fire and discipline was the key and beatings were often administrated with the NCOs cane (a symbol of his rank in so many armies) for any infraction of the understood way of doing things was the norm..they really did have the initiative and individuality drilled and and for the most part thrashed out of them..In widsor, on the Hawlsbury there is a park which was for a long time known as Triangle park..where the lashings of convicts and errant NSW corps persons went on ..In the British army the drummers performed the lashing..and the most senior sergeant stood by with a cat so as to lash the drummer if he wasn't thought to be doing his job with enough zeal. anothe rplanet, the 18th century , nasty and brutal, most unpleasant..at least in the Army you were fed

Blackjack wrote:Any news of the French that were mentioned a while ago?

Yes mate. I am just awaiting confirmation from sculptor with regard to doing the first 6 figures. I have to get the swords, muskets, Fusil and Tricorne done first to help with doing the figures.

French Infantry in plain coat, no lapels and with turnbacks (no turnbacks for officers). Officer/NCO with Fusil.

However, given the extraordinary issues i have had with the Hanoverians, i am not setting any time lines etc. I am now treating this as a private project (which i am happy to update on when asked) that i will tackle as i can.

A 3rd set of infantry are also being started, which should also make a nice addition. if i can get the above sets done i will then start on some Cavalry.

The 1st and most important is that Blazeaway Miniatures will be taking over this project and continued development. My original intentions of developing 28mm figures as well as 20mm has proved a bit ambitous and with my true interest being 20mm i have decided to concentrate on that scale alone. Blazeaway is well positioned to continue the figures and expand it into a larger overall range. So stay tuned for further developments.

I recently sent some figures to Paint Pig who kindly put some comparison pics up on his blog: