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I fail to see the usefulness of making sport of putting people's bad days on display.

And seriously...calling that video of Berezovsky the worst rendition of something makes me want to never post a video of any of my playing here on PianoWorld ever.

The world is not a competition and we are not its jury. I'd hate to see PianoWorld become the same kind of adolescent cesspool of criticism that YouTube has become.

ugh...

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

I agree. I still want to have Berezovsky's baby. I don't care if his inspiration wanes from day to day. Nobody is perfect all the time. The up days are so magnificent. We should celebrate their glories and not focus on when they aren't so glorious.

As for me, I don't think I've ever witnessed a non-thrilling recital. But ticket prices being what they are, it's been a while since I've been to one.

pianoloverus
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 21718
Loc: New York City

Originally Posted By: Kreisler

I fail to see the usefulness of making sport of putting people's bad days on display.

And seriously...calling that video of Berezovsky the worst rendition of something makes me want to never post a video of any of my playing here on PianoWorld ever.

The world is not a competition and we are not its jury. I'd hate to see PianoWorld become the same kind of adolescent cesspool of criticism that YouTube has become.

ugh...

Exactly.

It's good for young and inexperienced musicians to ask questions, but the description of Berezovsky's performance the OP is frankly outrageous(even though I didn't like what I listened to in the first minute). Same comment for the title of this thread.

Start out with respect for a winner of the Tchaikovsky competition and even much "lesser" pianists. Then you will learn something about playing the piano.

Youtube isn't a cesspool of criticism it's a cesspool of nastiness. Criticism doesn't necessarily have to be nasty. I think the OP poses a genuinely interesting question and I'm sure we can all behave like adults while discussing it.

pianoloverus
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 21718
Loc: New York City

Originally Posted By: argerichfan

Originally Posted By: Kreisler

I'd hate to see PianoWorld become the same kind of adolescent cesspool of criticism that YouTube has become.

But YouTube isn't moderated. I fail to see the comparison. (And PW is peaches compared to the Radio 3 Forum which is even more heavily moderated.)

I think Kreisler's point was that the topic itself was somewhat juvenile and inappropriate.

I think some posters(seemingly far more frequently those who are not particularly advanced)feel important when they criticize major pianists in immature ways. In my opinion they only look silly doing this.

Also, I should probably make it clear - I was speaking as a forum member, not as moderator. I have no intentions of taking any moderator actions. I was just voicing my opinion as a regular human being.

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

I agree with the criticism of the thread itself. However, an anecdote associated with this gives another perspective. I am a hi-fi fan so benefit from good quality sound. Many years' ago I was listening to a live recital by Vlado Perlmeuter, whose first group of pieces was the first set of Chopin's Mazurkas. The audience settled down, he played a few bars and came to a halt. The audience quietened. He started again and broke down again. The audience went absolutely quiet. Again he failed. It was so quiet you could hear his footsteps as he left the stage. Cue audience shuffling and coughing, then quiet again as you heard his footsteps back to the piano. Perfect playing.

It was a riveting experience and demonstrates his professionalism. OK, he had a memory lapse, went off for a refresher from the score (presumably) and then delivered a fine performance.

I don't believe this thread has, by nature, no potential for value; is it not a similar question to asking what is the best performance you have heard? I mean...assuming that the comments are not out of nastiness or puerile, obsessive disillusionment with the point of music and, in general, discussion and the articles pertaining thereto, um, couldn't one say that by discussing the best that one is simply stating, in a more qualitative rather than quantitative sense, what they consider the important factors (which one may try to thereafter improve upon) and likewise by asking for the worst, what to avoid? Just a thought...Oh, I love that Eisenstein recording by the way; I adore his passion, whether artificial or not.Xxx

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Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3

Pogorelich.
4000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4690
Loc: not somewhere over the rainbow

Originally Posted By: FSO

I don't believe this thread has, by nature, no potential for value; is it not a similar question to asking what is the best performance you have heard? I mean...assuming that the comments are not out of nastiness or puerile, obsessive disillusionment with the point of music and, in general, discussion and the articles pertaining thereto, um, couldn't one say that by discussing the best that one is simply stating, in a more qualitative rather than quantitative sense, what they consider the important factors (which one may try to thereafter improve upon) and likewise by asking for the worst, what to avoid? Just a thought...Oh, I love that Eisenstein recording by the way; I adore his passion, whether artificial or not.Xxx

One can easily consider the important factors of music without highlighting someone's "bad" performances. It creates more negativity than the contrary.

_________________________"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."

One can easily consider the important factors of music without highlighting someone's "bad" performances. It creates more negativity than the contrary.

I never said it was the best way, I'm only suggesting that, perhaps, we could try to take the best from the worst, if you will? There's no negativity spare when negativity is intended; an artist should be able admit their faults and we shouldn't feel ashamed for agreeing with them or pointing them out in the first place; I mean, um, when I foul up I don't mind being told so, I don't mind it being mocked even. Maybe I'm hasty in trying to defend views contrary to your own and for that I'm sorry, but...just consider that the negativity may not actually exist for some...

_________________________
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3