If the cause of all suffering is desire, then how do you start the path without first wanting to? and if the answer to that is; you start the path by understanding its right, then how do you first understand without a want to understand? or is this the exception to the rule? OR is there meant to be suffering experienced along (or at the beginning of) the path? This has been my biggest issue with understanding yet, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

SN 51.15 wrote:"In that case, brahman, let me question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think: Didn't you first have desire, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular desire allayed?"

"Yes, sir."

...

"So it is with an arahant whose mental effluents are ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular desire is allayed.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Seth19930 wrote:If the cause of all suffering is desire, then how do you start the path without first wanting to? and if the answer to that is; you start the path by understanding its right, then how do you first understand without a want to understand? or is this the exception to the rule? OR is there meant to be suffering experienced along (or at the beginning of) the path? This has been my biggest issue with understanding yet, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

it is not desire but grasping [for desire]that causes suffering.and not all desire is skilfulness to engage in. such as the desire to do skillful things.

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Last edited by Cittasanto on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Seth19930 wrote:If the cause of all suffering is desire, then how do you start the path without first wanting to? and if the answer to that is; you start the path by understanding its right, then how do you first understand without a want to understand? or is this the exception to the rule?

Thinking thus may be an instance of not suffering enough or of not suffering at all. In that case why look for any path at all? Not looking for any path one may of course ask these kind of questions since they appear interesting to the intellect. If there is spare time why not? Riddles may be an interesting pastime in deed.

Interesting. If the term desire does not mean the same as the term grasping how about the term craving? Craving is said to cause suffering, isn't it? Is there a difference in meaning as to desire & craving?

Interesting. If the term desire does not mean the same as the term grasping how about the term craving? Craving is said to cause suffering, isn't it? Is there a difference in meaning as to desire & craving?

good catch, Thanks!I will ammend that toit is not desire, but grasping for desire that causes suffering.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Interesting. If the term desire does not mean the same as the term grasping how about the term craving? Craving is said to cause suffering, isn't it? Is there a difference in meaning as to desire & craving?

good catch, Thanks!I will ammend that toit is not desire, but grasping for desire that causes suffering.

Sounds like a cheap cop-out if you ask me. What is grasped at? What is clung to?The intellect with all its acquired knowledge for example. Whatever that is in terms of the five aggregates. According to the theory that is what is clung to: the five aggregates.But in the end our brains will quit their jobs and we can't theorize anymore.Imagine you'll have a stroke or horrible accident with brain damage and end up like this:

What then?

It's already happening to me. My brain hurts.Maybe the 2012 apocalypse has really already begun, but it takes its course very slowly. We'll all end up like this: Imagine that!

Say you have desire, craving, grasping or clinging to smoking. You come to the realisation that smoking is bad for you. You have desire for quitting smoking. So you work towards it and quit smoking. Nnow your are happier and healthier person. Nothing wrong with that desire!

perkele wrote:Sounds like a cheap cop-out if you ask me. What is grasped at? What is clung to?The intellect with all its acquired knowledge for example. Whatever that is in terms of the five aggregates. According to the theory that is what is clung to: the five aggregates.But in the end our brains will quit their jobs and we can't theorize anymore.Imagine you'll have a stroke or horrible accident with brain damage and end up like this:

What then?

It's already happening to me. My brain hurts.Maybe the 2012 apocalypse has really already begun, but it takes its course very slowly. We'll all end up like this: Imagine that!

Sorrow, lamentation, grief and despair.

Don't let it come to this!

if you say so. but why consume your time theorising about one possibility. Death is certain make use of what you have whale you have it like there is only this moment left.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Sometimes taṇhā is translated as “desire,” but that gives rise to some crucial misinterpretations with reference to the way of Liberation. As we shall see, some form of desire is essential in order to aspire to, and persist in, cultivating the path out of dukkha. Desire as an eagerness to offer, to commit, to apply oneself to meditation, is called chanda. It’s a psychological “yes,” a choice, not a pathology. In fact, you could summarize Dhamma training as the transformation of taṇhā into chanda. It’s a process whereby we guide volition, grab and hold on to the steering wheel, and travel with clarity toward our deeper well-being. So we’re not trying to get rid of desire (which would take another kind of desire, wouldn’t it). Instead, we are trying to transmute it, take it out of the shadow of gratification and need, and use its aspiration and vigor to bring us into light and clarity.

Cittasanto wrote:if you say so. but why consume your time theorising about one possibility. Death is certain make use of what you have whale you have it like there is only this moment left.

I am sorry. I realize my communication skills are a bit off.I will try to heed your advice.

Your communication is fine.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."