>>6624459Pretty draconian censorship, self imposed isolation, mass arrests, executing people without trial, rampant corruption, bad economic mismanagement, poor political freedom. They did a good job ensuring everyone has access to a clinic or hospital, educating the youth, guaranteeing housing and employment to everyone. But all that has come at the cost of price controls, ultra low wages(30$ a month), strict rationing, and very low consumer goods quality. I think it's time they start to really liberalize aspects of their economy and give up. They're basically the last true communist country left and I think they're just in denial.

>"One morning the horrible sound of that rusty steel door swinging open startled us awake and Che's guards shoved a new prisoner into our cell. His face was bruised and smeared with blood. We could only gape. He was a boy, couldn't have been much older than 12, maybe 14.

>"'What did you do?' We asked horrified. 'I tried to defend my papa,' gasped the bloodied boy. 'I tried to keep these Communist sons of b**tches form murdering him! But they sent him to the firing squad.'"

>Soon Che's goons came back, the rusty steel door opened and they yanked the valiant boy out of the cell. "We all rushed to the cell's window that faced the execution pit," recalls Mr. San Martin. "We simply couldn't believe they'd murder him! Then we spotted him, strutting around the blood-drenched execution yard with his hands on his waist and barking orders; the gallant Che Guevara.

>"Here Che was, finally in his element. In battle he was a sad joke, a bumbler of epic proportions but up against disarmed and bloodied boys he was a snarling tiger.

>'I said, KNEEL DOWN!' Che barked again.

"The boy stared Che resolutely in the face. 'If you're going to kill me,' he yelled. 'you'll have to do it while I'm standing! MEN die standing!'

>"COWARDS! MURDERERS! Sons of B**TCHES!" The men yelled desperately from their cells. "LEAVE HIM ALONE!" HOW CAN ...?!"

>"And then we saw Che unholstering his pistol. It didn't seem possible. But Che raised his pistol, put the barrel to the back of the boy's neck and blasted. The shot almost decapitated the young boy. "We erupted. We were enraged, hysterical, banging on the bars.'MURDERERS! ASSASSINS!' His murder finished, Che finally looked up at us, pointed his pistol, and BLAM-BLAM-BLAM! emptied his clip in our direction. Several of us were wounded by his shots."

>>6624918You neglected to mention that you get all your essential services, including housing, food, transportation, education and healthcare for free.

If you subtracted all of those things from my income in the US, 30 bucks a month in the green would be substantially more than I make right now. I don't even have all of those things and I'm still in the red each month with virtually no money going toward anything but necessities and debt.

>>6624961>You neglected to mention that you get all your essential services, including housing, food, transportation, education and healthcare for free.You get shitty government brand goods rationed to you.Cuba used to be amongst the richer countries in Latin America, now its at the bottom end. https://ascecuba.org//c/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/v08-30smith.pdf

>>6624986What money?You don't have starter money if you're a normal person.Of course you don't understand this as a silver spoon chudlet who's going to be one of the first people to get your shit taken from you in a few years when thr unrest really begins.

>>6624987Why don't you go ahead and skip to the part where you post GDP, so I can post income inequality, HDI, and median wage compared to cost of living?It's justifiable to you to be homeless because you can't afford leukemia treatments?

>>6625029Oh no was I supposed to shout slurs at you and post a frog for you to grace me with your replies?What a loss that would be, to not have you replying to my posts with your insightful rich kid sneering.

>>6624459By being leftists, they can never do anything right. They could have been stalinists, and maybe turned Cuba into something special. Instead they turned it into a defenceless, mediocre, rotting ugly shithole negroid nation.

>>6625011>Why don't you go ahead and skip to the part where you post GDP, Ok, sure. Cuba ranks 25th out of 30 Latin American/Caribbean nations.https://nintil.com/2016/11/30/the-paradox-of-cuban-gdp/

>so I can post income inequality, Taken care of. Cuba has an GINI coefficient of .407 compared to the United State's .411. Cuba's is actually probably much worse because of foreign remittances.

>HDI, and median wage compared to cost of living?Cost of living is fixed by price controls. Their HDI is 9th in Latin America but was already high before the revolution.https://nintil.com/2016/12/02/the-surprising-human-development-index-of-cuba/

>It's justifiable to you to be homeless because you can't afford leukemia treatments?Unrelated.

>>6625048>All indications are that Republican Cuba once was a prosperous middle-income economy. On the eve of the revolution, we find that Cuban incomes were fifty to sixty percent of European levels. They were among the highest in Latin America and were about thirty percent of the US. […] In stark contrast, the best information available suggests that income has declined under the revolutionary regime and may be significantly below its levels of the 1950’s […] What went wrong? With hindsight, the fact that the central planning has ended badly should come as no surprise. Over the last fifty years, Cuba has replicated the failings of command systems elsewhere albeit in a uniquely Cuban fashion. […] overall Cuban consumption is forty seven percent of Costa Rica.

I somewhat blame the United States for not responding to the legitimate grievances of the Cubans under Batista. Maybe then the Castro's wouldn't have gone full retard and gotten Soviet aid. Still, at some point they should have softened their stance.

>>6625106I agree, but I'm not big fan of the Catro's. I don't think they're as evil as some right wingers like to push, but I wish they had recognized their failures at some point ad opened up Cuba and that the USA would be a little more accommodative.

>>6625072>A Gini index does not contain information about absolute national or personal incomes. Populations can have very low income Gini indices, yet simultaneously very high wealth Gini index. By measuring inequality in income, the Gini ignores the differential efficiency of use of household income. By ignoring wealth (except as it contributes to income) the Gini can create the appearance of inequality when the people compared are at different stages in their life. Wealthy countries such as Sweden can show a low Gini coefficient for disposable income of 0.31 thereby appearing equal, yet have very high Gini coefficient for wealth of 0.79 to 0.86 thereby suggesting an extremely unequal wealth distribution in its society.[55][56] These factors are not assessed in income-based Gini.

I also couldn't help but notice you ignored my cost of living to median wage ratio. Why could that be I wonder?Is it because you need to work two full-time jobs at minimum wage to still not afford basic necessities that you get for free in Cuba?

How is having a medical condition unrelated? Because it will never happen to you? Going bankrupt to access services you get for free somewhere else is relevant to the average person.

>>6625147You've never heard of it because you're uneducated, not because you're unamerican.Check which test you're going to need to take and submit as a postgraduate at the vast majority of the world's best grad and professional schools.

>>6625133Wealth inequality is basically meaningless. I only compared income based GINI coefficients. >I also couldn't help but notice you ignored my cost of living to median wage ratio. Why could that be I wonder?Already mentioned Cubans live on 30$ a month and that the cost of living is maintained by price controls and rationing. Thats translates to less than the 1.90$ poverty line. >Is it because you need to work two full-time jobs at minimum wage to stillNo, because only about 2.3% of all Americans are working at minimum wage or below. https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2017/home.htm>not afford basic necessities that you get for free in Cuba?>he thinks governments give people things for free >he thinks the majority of Americans aren't getting basic necessities

>>6625163The United States spends more per student on education than any other country.[8] In 2014, the Pearson/Economist Intelligence Unit rated US education as 14th best in the world. In 2015, the Programme for International Student Assessment rated U.S. high school students No. 40 globally in Math and No. 24 in Science and Reading. The President of the National Center on Education and the Economy said of the results "the United States cannot long operate a world-class economy if our workers are, as the OECD statistics show, among the worst-educated in the world". Former U.S. Education Secretary John B. King, Jr. acknowledged the results in conceding U.S. students were well behind their peers.[9] According to a report published by the U.S. News & World Report, of the top ten colleges and universities in the world, eight are American (the other two are Oxford and Cambridge, in the United Kingdom).[10]

The United States life expectancy is 78.6 years at birth, up from 75.2 years in 1990; this ranks 42nd among 224 nations, and 22nd out of the 35 industrialized OECD countries, down from 20th in 1990.[8][9] In 2016 and 2017 life expectancy in the U.S. dropped for the first time since 1993.[10] Of 17 high-income countries studied by the National Institutes of Health, the United States in 2013 had the highest or near-highest prevalence of obesity, car accidents, infant mortality, heart and lung disease, sexually transmitted infections, adolescent pregnancies, injuries, and homicides.[11] A 2014 survey of the healthcare systems of 11 developed countries found that the US healthcare system to be the most expensive and worst-performing in terms of health access, efficiency, and equity.[12]

>>6625163>>6625178Hunger in the United States is an issue that affects millions of Americans,[1] including some who are middle class,[2] or who are in households where all adults are in work.[2] Research from the USDA found that 14.9% of American households were food insecure during at least some of 2011, with 5.7% suffering from very low food security.[3] Journalists and charity workers have reported further increased demand for emergency food aid during 2012 and 2013.

The United States produces far more food than it needs for domestic consumption—hunger within the U.S. is caused by some Americans having insufficient money to buy food for themselves or their families. Additional causes of hunger and food insecurity include neighborhood deprivation and agricultural policy.[4][5] Hunger is addressed by a mix of public and private food aid provision. Public interventions include changes to agricultural policy, the construction of supermarkets in underserved neighborhoods, investment in transportation infrastructure, and the development of community gardens.[6][7][8][9] Private aid is provided by food pantries, soup kitchens, food banks, and food rescue organizations.[1][10][11]

In the later half of the twentieth century, other advanced economies in Europe and Asia began to overtake the U.S. in terms of reducing hunger among their own populations. In 2011, a report presented in the New York Times found that among 20 economies recognized as advanced by the International Monetary Fund and for which comparative rankings for food security were available, the U.S. was joint worst.[12]

Yeah, definitely sounds like people are getting their needs met

>>6625176I intend to emigrate. You can destroy yourselves faster when the brain drain hits.

>>6625196I don't need it. You could throw a dart at a world map, and nearly any country you hit will have better healthcare, education, and food security than the US, and I have a degree so just about any country will let me move there and nationalize.Good luck with your shithole country that's heading for another civil war.

>>6625178>>6625184Ah yes, America the classic example of a failed state. >In 2014, the Pearson/Economist Intelligence Unit rated US education as 14th best in the world.Thats out of 194 U.N nations, so not bad. >The United States life expectancy is 78.6 years at birth, up from 75.2 years in 1990; this ranks 42nd among 224 nationsWow what a disaster. >Hunger in the United States is an issue that affects millions of Americans,[1]Subjective bullshit. About 1% of the population is actually underweight. You're more likely to die of an obesity related illness than malnutrition. We produce enough food to provide everyone about 3500 calories a day. We have SNAP and WIC to support the people who need help. I can't even find data on starvation related deaths.

>>6625212The President of the National Center on Education and the Economy said of the results "the United States cannot long operate a world-class economy if our workers are, as the OECD statistics show, among the worst-educated in the world". Former U.S. Education Secretary John B. King, Jr. acknowledged the results in conceding U.S. students were well behind their peers.[9]

>>6625178>A 2014 survey of the healthcare systems of 11 developed countries found that the US healthcare system to be the most expensive and worst-performing in terms of health access, efficiency, and equity.[12]

Not too bad, you can be stupid so you don't even realize you're paying triple for your botched surgery that will kill you and also you probably have syphilitic brain disease, but you wouldn't know it because of half the country has an underclass with no medical coverage whatsoever.

>>6625209But you do need mommy to take care of you, you know, mommy the State to give you all those things you are in so much needI'm not even American but the there needs to be another civil war to wipe out all the cowards like you who need mommmmyyyyy the State and the Government, you are little boy

I see the Castro's as nationalists first at least in fidels case. I can't fault them for that. But communism and Marxism failed. They should have fallen into line with a socialism with Cuban characteristics like China did a while ago. Che is an interesting figure to me who I can applaud for revolutionary ideals but also acknowledge the evils that came with that. There's nothing wrong with wanting your nation or people to remove themselves from the yolk of large powers but if it doesn't bring your people anything better you do have to start questioning your ideology.

>>6625245>The solution is a different economic system and a different government, just like it always is when yours are perpetually failing.Talking about Cuba? Because they did everything FDR promised and ended up poorer than most of Latin America relative to their 1950's postion.

>>6625254If Marxism failed, then why do Cubans have better healthcare, education, food security, and a smaller homelessness rate than Americans?Is your iPhone more important to you than not dying of cancer?

>>6625274Who cares how poor your country is if you as an individual have everything you need?That's the case in Cuba, but not in the US, for the vast majority of people.You can be upper middle class in the US and still get bankrupted by a hospital bill.

But I'm sure you'll find some way to spin Hoovervilles as "growth and opportunity" and "dynamic housing entrepeneurship"

>>6625298This is the argument you yourself are making right now, right?I don't care if you can afford your cancer treatment, food, or shelter. Fuck you, I've got mine.Why does this hold for America, but not for Cuba?

>>6625307Basically everyone in Cuba is food insecure and dependent on state rationing. Would that really be an improvement for the United States? At the cost of our cars, phones, computers, and refrigerators?

>>6625329Yes, if it included guaranteed housing, healthcare, employment, transportation and education as well.Poor people in the US are already food rationed, and for the worst off it's far lower than necessary to keep from being malnourished, so you're just ignoring that btw.

>>6625334Yeah all those Cuban doctors being sent as aid to placed like Brazil and South Africa sure are in dire straits. Going to provide healthcare to "rich" countries (based on GDP of course) with "booming" economies that somehow still can't provide adequate medical care for their people.

>>6625339>Yeah all those Cuban doctors being sent as aid to placed like Brazil and South Africa sure are in dire straitsPublicity stunts. > Going to provide healthcare to "rich" countries (based on GDP of course) with "booming" economies that somehow still can't provide adequate medical care for their people.Rich countries are where people go for medical tourism.

>>6625351>It is alleged that health tourists in the UK often target the NHS for its free-at-the-point-of-care treatment, allegedly costing the NHS up to £200 million.[108] A study in 2013 concluded that the UK was a net exporter of medical tourists, with 63,000 UK residents travelling abroad for treatment and about 52,000 patients getting treatment in UK. Medical tourists treated as private patients by NHS trusts are more profitable than UK private patients, yielding close to a quarter of the revenue from only seven percent of volume of cases. UK dental patients largely go to Hungary and Poland. Fertility tourists mostly travel to Eastern Europe, Cyprus and Spain.[109]More people leave the U.K than go63,000 Canadians left their country to seek healthcare abroad in 2016. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/63-000-canadians-left-the-country-for-medical-treatment-last-year-fraser-institute-1.3486635 The USA has better healthcare outcomes than Cuba. Infant mortality is worse because of higher standards.

>>6625362>Let's make it clear, you're talking out your ass because you don't know anything>people eating out of trash, rolling blackouts, crime skyrocketing, hyperinflation Its amazing how out of touch ivory tower leftists in the West are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela

>>6625361I guess the incoming tourism doesn't exist if rich people go to the wherever the best provider is for their condition because they have the money not to wait.

But why is the healthcare in US twice as much and over ten timed as much per capita for very similar outcomes? It sounds like a fucked up economy to me when you have to pay ten times as much for similar or worse outcomes.

>>6625372>I guess the incoming tourism doesn't exist if rich people go to the wherever the best provider is for their condition because they have the money not to wait.I'm not even sure what you're saying.

>But why is the healthcare in US twice as much and over ten timed as much per capita for very similar outcomes? It sounds like a fucked up economy to me when you have to pay ten times as much for similar or worse outcomes.Mostly because of government policy. Medicare and medicare have been major causes in the increase in cost of healthcare. Also private insurers aren't allowed to compete across state lines.

>>6625378>The Venezuelan economy is actually still better, even by capitalist terms, than it was prior to Chavez. Go on dicksucking Pence and Pompeo though. They'd never lie to you.

No, it actually is worse than around 1999.

The crisis has affected the life of the average Venezuelan on all levels. By 2017, hunger had escalated to the point where almost three-fourths of the population had lost an average of over 8 kg (over 19 lbs) in weight,[a] and more than half did not have enough income to meet their basic food needs.[22] Reuters reported that a UN report estimated in March 2019 that 94% of Venezuelans live in poverty, and more than 1/10th of Venezuelans (3.4 million) have left their country.[23] The UN analysis estimates in 2019 that one quarter of Venezuelans need some form of humanitarian assistance.[23][24] Venezuela led the world in murder rates, with 81.4 per 100,000 people killed in 2018, making it the third most violent country in the world.[25]

>>6625378SEETHING. I know it probably takes a lot of effort to cause you anal devastation given your likely habits outside of shilling and getting BTFO, but I'm pretty proud of this one. Get dunked on nigger

>>6625381I'm saying looking at aggregate incoming and outgoing medical tourism ignores reality since only rich people can afford to leave the country and reject care they would receive for free. This is because they either don't want to wait like everyone else or because they want to see a foreign specialist.

>Mostly because of government policy. Medicare and medicare have been major causes in the increase in cost of healthcare. Also private insurers aren't allowed to compete across state lines.Government healthcare policy in the US is almost entirely dictated by insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies. This is unavoidable in a private system, and they will legislate profitability over human lives.

>>6625394>>6625400Because if there's anything I love (and you can tell this from my posts), it's white venezuelans that are trying to overthrow the legitimate elected government to institute a US proxy government that will whore out all the oil

>>6625398>I'm saying looking at aggregate incoming and outgoing medical tourism ignores reality since only rich people can afford to leave the country and reject care they would receive for free. This is because they either don't want to wait like everyone else or because they want to see a foreign specialist.And the poor people have to deal with shitty rationed government care. >Government healthcare policy in the US is almost entirely dictated by insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies. This is unavoidable in a private system, and they will legislate profitability over human lives.Not really. Medicare and Social Security are untouchable because of how seniors vote. Insurance and pharmaceutical companies are powerful, but their goal is to create large inefficient monopolies. The best thing to do is either go much more in the direction of private care(with some caveats) and open up supply or have something far more government oriented with more collective bargaining. A fully nationalized system may have been possible in the past, but not anymore in the USA.

>>6625406>Leftist """"education"""""The quality of oil in Venezuela is extremely poor and you'd be operating at a loss if you tried to refine and sell it. Fun fact: it's cheaper to drill for oil in the US, load it up on a tanker and sail it around the world twice, then sell back, than to drill and refine Venezuelan oil.

>>6625414>And the poor people have to deal with shitty rationed government care. The outcomes are better than the US, and all healthcare is rationed. In the US, it's rationed to the rich instead of by need or severity.>Not really. Medicare and Social Security are untouchable because of how seniors vote. Insurance and pharmaceutical companies are powerful, but their goal is to create large inefficient monopolies. The best thing to do is either go much more in the direction of private care(with some caveats) and open up supply or have something far more government oriented with more collective bargaining. A fully nationalized system may have been possible in the past, but not anymore in the USA.Yeah, that's why literally every dem has been forced to either endorse M4A or justify why they refuse to, since, you know, it's polling at 70%.Well, just wait and see. You're in for a big surprise.

>>6625406> it's white venezuelans that are trying to overthrow the legitimate elected government to institute a US proxy government that will whore out all the oil>white>implying is not already Venezuela is not a whore of Russia and China already

>>6625424>The outcomes are better than the US, and all healthcare is rationed. In the US, it's rationed to the rich instead of by need or severity.Where? Europe? Thats true(outside 5 year cancer survival). >Yeah, that's why literally every dem has been forced to either endorse M4A or justify why they refuse to, since, you know, it's polling at 70%. Well, just wait and see. You're in for a big surprise.Sadly true. M4A would probably be a disaster at this point. In the 50's and 60's universe care way more viable but we are way beyond that point.

>>6625436>Efficient for whom?People who buy its oil, people who work for it, people who sell its oil.>I'd rather see a massive poverty reduction than Citgo costing 10 cents less.Well now you don't get either.

>>6624459Che Guevara was just an "idealist" from an upper-middle class from Argentina that got cucked by Castro and Cienfuegos after being sent to useless wars like Angola or Bolivia , the other part is well explained here >>6624892.If the point was having the absolutely control of the island and still be able to interfere through latinamerica with guerrilla power, they succeeded, plus, it's not like they're the KGB enemy the US fought half-century ago nowadays

>>6625452>people taking your natural resources ia good after they set up a puppet government to implement austerity where you have no choice but to sell your land and oilHey, if that doesn't work there's always the CIA trained death squads to kill 4 year olds

>>6625474Wow socialism is so ruined, just like everyone in this thread posting all the things Cuba does better than America despite 60 years of embargo are saying!Good thing those Cubans were able to come here and be terrible Congressmen who advocate the overthrow of foreign governments on twitter instead of being a doctor providing care to the helpless.Sure dodged a bullet.

>>6625491>Being poor in America is worse than being poor in CubaBeing poor in America means earning 400 times more income than the average Cuban. Having a better home, car, t.v, food, freedom, voting rights.

>>6625502>Being poor in America means earning 400 times more income than the average Cuban. Having a better home, car, t.v, food, freedom, voting rights.No, you can't even afford regular medical care and food if you're under the poverty line in the US. You're also likely a felon, since being poor is illegal in most states.Keep living in your fantasy world though, dumbass.

>>6625495>Healthcare efficiencyThanks government >literacy Worse than the USA. >homeless rate.17% in the USA because we haven't criminalized it like in Cuba. >cigars, rum, lmao>medical aidlol, the US has been a the forefront of medical research for decades. Our aid includes a huge number of inventions.

>>6625491That's not how information works. You read scholarly sources as a whole or read something that reliably summarizes them. Just because someone provides sources doesn't mean they're telling the whole truth.

>>6625512>No, you can't even afford regular medical care and foodYou can absolutely afford food. A pound of rice is 71 cents. https://www.statista.com/statistics/236628/retail-price-of-white-rice-in-the-united-states/ Medical care is expensive because of government. Most people get healthcare through medicare, ACA, or their employer. Emergency rooms can't deny people.

>>6625516>Thanks government It's more efficient in Cuba, where healthcare is nationalized, dipshit>Worse than the USA. It's not>.17% in the USA because we haven't criminalized it like in Cuba. We have in many parts of the US, but unlike Cuba free housing here is basically non-existent.>lmao>please don't take my american exceptionalism at face valueYou could try posting an American that's better than a Cubano>lol, the US has been a the forefront of medical research for decades. Our aid includes a huge number of inventions.>medical aid means buying overpriced epipens and dying from preventable disease

>>6625496Access to water, electricity and food are not major issues in the USA. Less than 1% of our population is homeless. Our biggest issue is healthcare affordability, which is mostly a government failure.

>>6625522Vagrancy is a crime, public urination is a sex offense in places that have "no public restroom," "We have the right to refuse service to anyone," panhandling is a crime in most major cities, it's illegal to sleep in your car in most states

>>6625512It doesn't matter if you can't afford medical care, you still get it if you need it. Hospitals legally cannot refuse treatment to anybody. You get billed after they treat you, and if you can't pay it they waive most of the fee so you only have to pay a fraction of it. The waived amount is basically lost, they can try getting reimbursed by the government or insurance but good luck collecting. There's hundreds of billions of dollars in lost fees sitting on the table for anybody who can sort out the mess.

And can't afford food? Please. America is so lousy with food that you can literally live on the street an be obese.

>>6625537>Access to water, electricity and food are not major issues in the USA.Actually they are. Maybe they aren't major to you though, since you can afford to pay the toll troll.>Less than 1% of our population is homeless.1% of 350,000,000 is still 3,500,000. That's acceptable so you can have your mcwally world dude wipes though, right?>Our biggest issue is healthcare affordability, which is mostly a government failure.Yes, all of these failures are government failures, mostly because of our political economy.

>>6625536You're only partially correct. Yeah you may receiver free healthcare, but it's shit. You're not homeless because technically you live in a run-down house that hasn't been renovated since the 1950's and will collapse any day now. Anyone who thinks that Cuba is on average superior to the U.S. is the worse kind of delusional communist.

>>6625536>It's more efficient in Cuba, where healthcare is nationalized, dipshitCosts are lower, at the expense of everything else in society. >It's notThey both have an effective 100% literacy rate. >We have in many parts of the US, but unlike Cuba free housing here is basically non-existent.Housing in Cuba is shit. "Free" housing comes at an enormous cost in quality. >medical aid means buying overpriced epipens and dying from preventable diseaseNo it means actually creating them to being with. The vaccines, drugs, and medical devices that save saved untold millions around the world.

>>6625541finding a restroom is retardedly easy which is why you've probably never seen human shit on the ground in public before. America has tons of public land where the homeless can dry camp for free. Homeless asking for money and recieving it is constant, and foodstamps are widely available.

>>6625541>Vagrancy is a crime, public urination is a sex offense in places that have "no public restroom," "We have the right to refuse service to anyone," panhandling is a crime in most major cities, it's illegal to sleep in your car in most states

prosecutions for these offenses are rare, and do not deserve to be used as examples of "being poor is a crime!". yes, i see what you mean but that's not really how it works. honestly my only problem is with how you worded it.

>>6625542Right, but then you can't afford housing or transportation because that 30k hospital bill just tanked your credit score and now you can't even go to work or sign up for the privilege to pay rent because you have no credit

>>6625556>According to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development's Annual Homeless Assessment Report, as of 2017 there were around 554,000 homeless people in the United States on a given night, or 0.17% of the population.

>>6625541Almost nobody bothers prosecuting vagrants because there's no money to be made fining them, you literally weigh the cost of imprisoning them vs the cost they impose on the city by littering and shitting on the sidewalk and usually cleaning up after them on the street is cheaper than booking them, so they go free, so cops don't bother arresting them unless they're posing a threat to themselves or others.

Also most vagrants aren't poor people forced onto the street, they choose that life due to drug addiction.

>>6625556>Actually they are. Maybe they aren't major to you though, since you can afford to pay the toll troll.Really, how many households lack electricity? Most utilities are subsidized in the USA via regulations controlling costs already. >1% of 350,000,000 is still 3,500,000. That's acceptable so you can have your mcwally world dude wipes though, right?It's not acceptable and its mental health/drug issue mostly. The actual rate is closer to .17% and this issue won't be solved by giving them free houses. >Yes, all of these failures are government failures, mostly because of our political economy.So let's have more government control? The same evil genocidal government leftists think is destroying the planet.

>>6625564>Right, but then you can't afford housing or transportation because that 30k hospital bill just tanked your credit score and now you can't even go to work or sign up for the privilege to pay rent because you have no creditThis is not how the typical person lives.

>>6625564>but then you can't afford housing or transportation because that 30k hospital bill just tanked your credit scoreWhat part of "they waive the fee" did you not understand? It gets reduced to a point where you can reasonably pay it. The hospital would rather collect some money than no money. In some cases though the fee is waived entirely. It's handled on a case by case basis. Most people though can pay for it. Medicare and Medicaid supports a lot of the fixed income people who don't have the liquid assets to pay large fees.

>>6625577No, most of the homeless are drug addict scum. They literally prefer living that way. The poor unfortunate mentally ill schizos and working poor who live in cars are a super tiny percentage of homeless people. The kind of people you find on the streets in SF or Seattle want to be there.

>Spends an entire thread sperging out over homelessness in AmericaVolunteer in a soup kitchen or donate to the poor instead of sitting on your ass bitching on 4chan if it works you up so much you cringe Champaign socialist

>>6625588Yes they do. Because they are insured for this and are eligible to collect government handouts by waiving fees for people who can't pay. Getting those reimbursements can be difficult, but trying to squeeze thousands of dollars out of a dirt poor working stiff isn't going to yield anything, he'll just file for bankruptcy.

>>6625604These commies are retarded. Because of some autistic obsession with wanting 0 people homeless and 100% access to healthcare we have to shut down America and become fucking Venezuela(which they gave up defending).

>>6625618I noticed this as well. You can't actually argue a good case for Cuba or Venezuela, they suck. But you can argue against America, because no nation is perfect. Leftist obfuscation is a powerful tool.

>>6625603>Section 8, subsidies, and vouchers Unnatainable by most people, and rarely covers entire rent. Most places won't take vouchers, and the wait list for section 8 is 10 years in places where there are high homelessness rates.>SNAP and WICNot every state has disburses SNAP or WIC to everyone, and some states have very low lifetime limits, work requirements (disabled, SOL sorry), and other barriers to entry>AMTRAK, busses, public highways You should only be allowed to work if you have a car or can afford a second rent worth of bus tokens, assuming there is even a bus neat you, which btw there isn't in 90% of the US.Imagine thinking we have trains in America>Medicare, medicaid, ACA, childcare Weird, it seems like half the states didn't expand Medicaid. Would that mean that these states have a completely uninsured underclass?

>>6625605Yes, and when he files for bankruptcy, it's the exact situation I laid out for you.Hospitals do not waive fees in the vast majority of cases. They'll send it to collections and still make some money. They don't care, and there's no law preventing this.Wait, the repo man just took the car you lived in while you were at work because the hospital sold your debt to collections? Guess it's time to sleep under a bridge!Living the American Dream!

>>6625607A fire wouldn't be able to wipe out everything I own, and I have plenty of people who'd be willing to support me until I got back on my feet, my friends and family. That's the case for most Americans, we have networks of people to support us. Homeless people cast off these bonds and choose to live on the street. Right now if I tried to live on the street I'd have my brother and 2 best friends tracking me down and getting me put in a hospital on their dime within a week, because I have people who care about me. I'm not an addict scum who deliberately alienated every person in his life.

>>6625631Because actually giving money to insurance companies for 3000 dollar epipens and dialysis treatment costs in the five figures annually doesn't balloon costs at all, a raw dollar amount actually reflects the amount of aid given and there's no grift at all

If America had a socialist government this man wouldn't be forced to beg all day and night so he can finally shoot up heroin in a McDonalds car park before the withdrawal kicks in, he'd be shooting up inside a McDonalds that was converted into shared housing WHO'S WITH ME THE PROLITARIAT NEEDS TO RISE UP

>>6625637>>6625638>>6625640No amount of facts, figures, reasons, or reality will make you care about your fellow man, or face the reality that's happening, until you, too, are forced into credit serfdom for scraps

>>6625651>C-Care about your fellow man!Read >>6625604 you hypocrite, you have probably done nothing for the poor other than thinking you're the second coming of Christ because you gave a homeless dude a $5 note purely because you were out of $1 notes

>>6625660Here's the difference>New deal was put into place because the average working class American was in poverty due to the great depressionAnd here's what you're advocating for>We should round up all the crackheads, meth heads and lunatics and ???? so they're better and eliminate homelessness :)Go outside you shut in you haven't got a clue how the world works

>>6625671Then you're just completely uninformed.You live in a surveillance state that would make the Stasi blush, with all of the drawbacks and none of the public benefits.Well, I guess they haven't built the wall where they shoot you in the back on the way out yet.They'll just pull you aside at the airport instead.

>>6625681Violence is happening right now, because a state is built on violence. It's just not happening to you yet, because you're part of the class benefiting from the violence. No state lasts forever though.

>>6625660it took until after the new deal and the regulations thay followed for america to experience its first ever housing crisis. Before then, everyone had at least a little shit shack, unless they willingly became a hobo

>>6625685>Violence is happening right now, because a state is built on violence. Which is why I want less statism.>It's just not happening to you yet, because you're part of the class benefiting from the violence.I'm not. Violence in on the whole a negative for everyone.

>>6625682>>6625679So it must be that homeless people don't have social security numbers and Medicare doesn't exist anymore?Maybe that jobs guarantee up there in the second bill of rights was a second job for people that already had one?Or you think it could never happen again, and that capitalism isn't inherently unstable, that you'll never lose your job when the next big bust hits?

>>6625698>Or you think it could never happen again, and that capitalism isn't inherently unstable, that you'll never lose your job when the next big bust hits?It's very likely the government could fuck up again and cause another depression.

>>6625688Your hate only makes me strongerIt'll be hilarious at your closed casket funeral, assuming anyone even cared about you enough to give you one, after you end yourself when the pain pills stop working to help you escape the PTSD

>>6625719The Great Recession was a mix of things, but the Great Depression could have been avoided if the Federal Reserve did its job. I wouldn't say they caused it per se, but they could have prevented it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgyQsIGLt_w

>>6625698Under capitalism>There might be an economic crisis so I might have to downsize my house, sell my car, work overtime. Worse case scenario I'm going to have to move back in with Ma and PaAnd then there's Socialism>Oh my god I can't even fucking afford bread and the government keeps ringing the elections, I better flee to America for a job oh nevermind the government just got toppled by a gang of angry revolutionaries

>>6625769There's no line for poor people to eat in the states because they do without if they don't make enough money dancing and singing in the metro stationHey, it sure beats waiting in line for free food!

>>6625779>There's no line for poor people to eat in the states because they do without>What is a soup kitchen>What are charities>What are homeless shelters But nah America should be the United Soviet Republics of America because a homeless dude spends his money on cheap meth instead of food lol grow up loser

>>6625784Not if its not my blog and the blog includes sources. https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol40no5/pdf/v40i5a08p.pdfhttps://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/713663450https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10457090209600728After the cold war a literature developed indicating that the CIA routinely overestimated Soviet economic performance.

Socialism/communisn is nothing more than a conspiracy created by powerful billionaire men.And Anyone who follows and supports it is nothing but a braindead sheep, the end.Pic related an undeniable proof ot it.

We are being socialized in America and everybody knows it. if we had a chance to sitdown and have a cup of coffee with the man in the street that we have been interviewing,he might say: "You know, the one thing I can never figure out is why all these very, verywealthy people like the Kennedys, the Fords, the Rockefellers and others are forsocialism. Why are the super-rich for socialism? Don't they have the most to lose? I takea look at my bank account and compare it with Nelson Rockefeller's and it seems funnythat I'm against socialism and he's out promoting it." Or is it funny? In reality, there is avast difference between what the promoters define as socialism and what it is in actualpractice. The idea that socialism is a share-the-wealth program is strictly a confidencegame to get the people to surrender their freedom to an all-powerful collectivistgovernment. While the insiders tell us we are building a paradise on earth, we areactually constructing a jail for ourselves.

>>6625830Ah yes, the Kennedys that invaded Cuba and triggered the Bay of Pigs crisis, famous bastions of socialismThe union busting Henry Ford, who hired armed vigilantes to rough up the families of labor organizers and engaged wholeheartedly in anti-communist scaremongering, avowed communist, and who can forget J.D. Rockefeller, who famously gave all of his workers the means of production, and never once hired pinkertons to quell labor organization, famous communists!

>>6625834>weren't you the guy using the supposed success of the new deal to defend socialismNo, but the New Deal represented nationalized healthcare and social security, which is a far cry from "lol fix homelessness by volunteering at a soup kitchen XP"

>>6625842Facts like these:>>6625840?Maybe you have some David Icke to rec me next?When are you going to start spitting everywhere while babbling about ZOG? Does that come later? How about water flouridation and antivax? When is that part?

>>6625860Whereas chapters of the book, where it describes the events in separate Communist states, were highly praised, some generalizations made by Courtois in the introduction to the book became a subject of criticism both on scholarly and political[15]:139 grounds.[14]:236[16]:13[17]:68-72 Moreover, two of the book's main contributors—Nicolas Werth and Jean-Louis Margolin—as well as Karel Bartosek[18] publicly disassociated themselves from Courtois' statements in the introduction and criticized his editorial conduct. Werth and Margolin felt Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship"[19] and faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries.[18][20]:194[21]:123 They also argued that based on the results of their studies, one can tentatively estimate the total number of the victims at between 65 and 93 million.[22] In particular, Margolin, who authored the Black Book's chapter on Vietnam, clarified "that he has never mentioned a million deaths in Vietnam".[18] Historians Jean-Jacques Becker and J. Arch Getty have criticized Courtois[23]:178 for failing to draw a distinction between victims of neglect and famine and victims of "intentional murder".[24] Economic historian Michael Ellman has argued that the book's estimate of "at least 500,000" deaths during the Soviet famine of 1946–1947 "is formulated in an extremely conservative way, since the actual number of victims was much larger", with 1,000,000–1,500,000 excess deaths.[25] Regarding these questions, historian Alexander Dallin has argued that moral, legal, or political judgments hardly depend on the number of victims.[26]

>>6625860>>6625872Many observers have rejected Courtois's numerical and moral comparison of Communism to Nazism in the introduction.[16]:148[27] According to Werth, there was still a qualitative difference between Nazism and Communism, saying: "Death camps did not exist in the Soviet Union".[24] He further told Le Monde: "The more you compare Communism and Nazism, the more the differences are obvious".[28] In a critical review, historian Amir Weiner wrote: "When Stalin's successors opened the gates of the Gulag, they allowed 3 million inmates to return home. When the Allies liberated the Nazi death camps, they found thousands of human skeletons barely alive awaiting what they knew to be inevitable execution".[29]:450-52 Historian Ronald Suny remarked that Courtois' comparison of 100 million victims of Communism to 25 million victims of Nazism "[leaves out] out most of the 40-60,000,000 lives lost in the Second World War, for which arguably Hitler and not Stalin was principally responsible".[30]:8 A report by the Wiesel Commission criticized the comparison of Gulag victims with Jewish Holocaust victims as an attempt to trivialize the Holocaust.[9]

>>6625883>democratic capitalist 'experiment'India was openly socialist, a democratic socialist experiment if anything, how does Gnome Chumpsky so openly and flagrantly lie through his teeth all the time

>>6625840>The union busting Henry Ford, who hired armed vigilantes to rough up the families of labor organizers and engaged wholeheartedly in anti-communist scaremongering, avowed communist, and who can forget J.D. Rockefeller, who famously gave all of his workers the means of production, and never once hired pinkertons to quell labor organization, famous communists!Sounds like how most communist countries ended up. Instead of capitalists it was just the government cracking down on labor.

>>6625558>healthcare is shit>being poor as fuck but having the life expectancy of US is having shit healthcareTruth be told life in Cuba isn't bad. When it comes to things like food, water, healthcare and security it scores well above other Latin American countries. People in this thread are just in denial how a communist government can do something good so they will cherry pick statistics, comparing it to a first world country to make it look bad. To flame up this thread I'm going to post a post-soviet joke.

"In the middle of the night a woman screams and jumps out of bed, eyes filled with terror. Her startled husband watches her rush into the bathroom and open the medicine cabinet. She then dashes to the kitchen and inspects the inside of the refrigerator. Finally, she flings open a window and gazes out onto the street below their apartment. She takes a deep breath and returns to bed.

“What’s wrong with you?” her husband says. “What happened?”

“I had a terrible nightmare,” she says. “I dreamed that we had the medicine we needed, that our refrigerator was full of food, and that the streets outside were safe and clean.”

“How is that a nightmare?”

The woman shakes her head and shudders. “I thought the Communists were back in power.”"

>>6626010Fine, I've met plenty of people who liked it. You don't have that big of an anti-communist resentment amongst people who lived there. It's mostly the young people who were born at the end of SU and eastern bloc who have "bad memories" .>>6626013Capitalism looks like this?>>6626020Yeah I can't read Spanish. If your average third world worker ended up in Cuba he would have liked it. You can compare the life of a Cuban with that of any country from the West as much as you can, but I think we both see why that isn't fair.

>>6624895>Cuba is on par infastructurally with states in the South like FloridaWhat did he mean by this? Florida is one of the most densely populated states with highly developed water ways and water management and the same tier of roads as everywhere else.

>>6625896To a man (and boy) Che's murder victims went down in a blaze of defiance and glory. So let's recall Che's own plea when the wheels of justice finally turned and he was cornered in Bolivia. "Don't Shoot!" he whimpered. "I'm Che! I'm worth more to you alive than dead!"

>>6625356>>6625376>>6625966Idk about Cuba, but as a Venezuelan (not defending the government) it is not very Marxist, the economic sistem they follow, "4rth wave socialism" takes both (the worse) aspects of capitalism, and socialism, while ignoring some aspects that make either better. Just look at corporations like the Polar. The problem is that they selectively allow certain corporations to mantain economic hegemony, removing the need for competition, one of the mayor benefits of capitalism, while removing certain things such as a well funded medical system, and schooling system. Marxism is not the answer, but what the government has is definately not Marxism, it's an unholy mixture of two systems which are opposites (to some extent at least)

>>6626239I don't know why people think Venezuela is Marxist. They have a communist party but it's small and isn't in any way in power. I guess they are friendly with Cuba? They call themselves socialist but they never said Marxist. Is Gaddafi Marxist? He also called Libya socialist. It seems to me that brainlets call it Marxist since "government does stuff".