This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the FAQ and RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate and remove the ads - it's free!

Re: SOTU Address:

Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13

Funny it seems that any proposal at spending on things like infrastructure, or any thing that increases spending is viewed as blasphemy by conservatives?

Obama's failed Stimulus was supposed to provide "shovel ready" jobs on Infrastructure. That turned out to be a lie. That spending has now been added to the baseline of Federal Spending every year, going on 4 years now. That's 4 trillion right there and no bridges or roads have been fixed, yet here you are, claiming we need to spend more on "infrastructure". Obama is recycling the same talking points he's been using for going on 5 years now. 5 years of the same tired, cliche, and played out rhetoric like "investing in education", and "investing in infrastructure". The results? A shrinking economy and massive debt.

Secondly these are bridges and roads that are going to to be fixed anyways, so as far as economic growth is concerned, it's a wash. The Federal Government has to take money out of the private economy on top of that to pay for it, so there is no net gain of wealth to the Economy. It's a shifting of resources. Nothing more. You are falling for an economic fallacy.

Re: SOTU Address:

Originally Posted by Adagio

40% of that went to tax cuts. We need to spend money on infrastrucure. Not more tax cuts. They don't create jobs. When you put people to work, they spend their money, and when they spend money, companies need to hire more people to meet the demand. The consumer is the job creator. Overhaul the US infrastructure and you create jobs.

Is there some reason that you continue to spout the Obama talking points? let me know when we have a deficit reduction, economic growth of over 4%, less than 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, a reduction of people on food stamps and other taxpayer assistance? Learn how our economy works and the four components. Then go to OBama and help him understand it.

Re: SOTU Address:

Originally Posted by Conservative

Is there some reason that you continue to spout the Obama talking points? let me know when we have a deficit reduction, economic growth of over 4%, less than 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, a reduction of people on food stamps and other taxpayer assistance? Learn how our economy works and the four components. Then go to OBama and help him understand it.

Re: SOTU Address:

Originally Posted by Conservative

Your opinion noted, now please tell me your experience that would support your contention? It really is a shame that people like you pay so much attention to rhetoric and so little to results. How much the billions in debt service on the 16.5 trillion debt is benefiting people? It does appear that you have no concept of debt, debt service, fiscal responsibility, job creation, economic growth.

You supported the debt creation during the 8 years of Bush and now you're freaking out? Are you aware that a huge part of that debt was never on the books during the Bush Admin. The wars were kept off the books. Obama put them back in when he took office so we would all know what was going on. So don't talk to me about fiscal responsibility. As for job creation, its the consumer that creates the jobs. Not some Romneyesque industrialist. Who exactly are the so called “job creators”? They are none-other than the public itself; the consumer who is willing to spend his money on the product or service being offered. The idea that a wealthy industrialist is a job creator is completely false. Hiring a person must always benefit the wealthy industrialist in filling the demand for his product made by the consumer. The consumer always drives the hiring of personnel. Consumer demand creates the job. A company will only hire people based on the demand for the product or service that it offers. Hiring people in hopes of having people walk through the door to buy something is like demanding that the stove gives you heat before you put in the wood. The thing that creates jobs is the demand for a product made on a company by consumers of that product. The public/consumer is the job creator. A company provides a product or a service. It doesn’t provide jobs. That is not what it’s in business for. To suggest otherwise is false, ludicrous and totally and completely illogical. No business man ever started a business with the idea of creating jobs for people. He started a business to make money from his product.

What would our fiscal situation look like if history had been different in just one respect: if we’d never implemented President George W. Bush’s eponymous tax policies? The short answer is that the debate over federal debt levels would be entirely different. In that alternate world, total debt as a share of GDP would be under 50 percent this year — instead of pushing 70 percent — and it would be expected to stay under 60 percent for the rest of the decade. That’s well below the levels causing such great consternation in Washington.

The Bush tax cuts ushered in the weakest economic expansion of the post-war period, as “growth in investment, GDP, and employment all posted their worst performance.” For the cost of the Bush tax cuts, the U.S. could have, among other things, given 49.2 million people access to low-income healthcare every year, provided 43.1 million students with Pell Grants every year, or provided 31.5 million children with access to Head Start every year.

Re: SOTU Address:

Originally Posted by Adagio

You supported the debt creation during the 8 years of Bush and now you're freaking out? Are you aware that a huge part of that debt was never on the books during the Bush Admin. The wars were kept off the books. Obama put them back in when he took office so we would all know what was going on. So don't talk to me about fiscal responsibility. As for job creation, its the consumer that creates the jobs. Not some Romneyesque industrialist. Who exactly are the so called “job creators”? They are none-other than the public itself; the consumer who is willing to spend his money on the product or service being offered. The idea that a wealthy industrialist is a job creator is completely false. Hiring a person must always benefit the wealthy industrialist in filling the demand for his product made by the consumer. The consumer always drives the hiring of personnel. Consumer demand creates the job. A company will only hire people based on the demand for the product or service that it offers. Hiring people in hopes of having people walk through the door to buy something is like demanding that the stove gives you heat before you put in the wood. The thing that creates jobs is the demand for a product made on a company by consumers of that product. The public/consumer is the job creator. A company provides a product or a service. It doesn’t provide jobs. That is not what it’s in business for. To suggest otherwise is false, ludicrous and totally and completely illogical. No business man ever started a business with the idea of creating jobs for people. He started a business to make money from his product.

What would our fiscal situation look like if history had been different in just one respect: if we’d never implemented President George W. Bush’s eponymous tax policies? The short answer is that the debate over federal debt levels would be entirely different. In that alternate world, total debt as a share of GDP would be under 50 percent this year — instead of pushing 70 percent — and it would be expected to stay under 60 percent for the rest of the decade. That’s well below the levels causing such great consternation in Washington.

The Bush tax cuts ushered in the weakest economic expansion of the post-war period, as “growth in investment, GDP, and employment all posted their worst performance.” For the cost of the Bush tax cuts, the U.S. could have, among other things, given 49.2 million people access to low-income healthcare every year, provided 43.1 million students with Pell Grants every year, or provided 31.5 million children with access to Head Start every year.

This is almost too comical to warrant a response. Do you think the government just hid the debt for eight years and then all of the sudden dumped it into the President's lap?

I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...

Originally Posted by James D Hill

I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

Re: SOTU Address:

Originally Posted by Somerville

The Austrians deny the value of government spending, except for 'defence' purposes - always wondered about that, why does spending taxpayer money on military goods create jobs but spending taxpayer money on other projects is simply taking it away from the taxpayers with no jobs created. We hear it everyday, "Government can't create jobs!" but they never have any actual support for that claim, with their various prevarications and attempts at diversion to keep the public from thinking about the matter.

Agreed. I cannot tell you how many times I have people say they have never been hired by a poor person, like all the money flows down from the wealthy. What they fail to understand is that most jobs are paid for by consumption from the poor and middle class. Some folks, like Apple, have done an amazing job of trying to create new markets, and some fantastic innovation has come from this, but these new markets don't exist in a vacuum, they offset others. Some folks have gotten rid of their home PC's and their home phones in favor of Iphones and Ipads, so it really is in part just capturing revenues that would have gone elsewhere. The engine of our economy is domestic consumption and our nationals policies have crushed consumers and the check engine light is on. If Austrian economics worked, the last 30 years would not have seen the middle class crushed, indeed, their boats would have risen with rising tide of massive wealth concentration to the top.

"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.