Monday, February 27, 2012

Modesty, the Early Church, & Sexual Immorality

The man who posted the comment did so respectfully and thoughtfully. His answered deserved more of a response than just another comment on the blog, so I told him that I would address his questions in a new post altogether. Here are his comments in full:

Hi,

My name is Kwame and I read over your blog posts on Biblical naturalists and nudity. I had a few questions. Firstly, I didn't do a thorough in-depth review of your site and beliefs so forgive me if I misquote, misrepresent or don't accurately capture where you stand:

1. Since we are in a fallen world, do you advocate that women should not pursue dressing modestly and covering the areas that cultures, churches and certain ethnicities, religions objectify?

2. Yes, God created us naked and we were to live in paradise as such but when Christ came and rose the early church still had clothes and they still warned women to adorn themselves in modesty. So how does that factor in to your call of men to lead the way in explaining this naturist path?

3. I agree with you, men ought to clean up their minds more and succumb their passions and desires to the greater good who is God. However, we know not all are in the same place in this Christian race and should we not care and be on best behavior towards our brothers who are weakest in Christ?

4. When Paul says that our body's are not our own and to flee from sexual immorality. Aren't these safe practices (dress code) the church has taken to make this possible?

In Christ, Kwame

Now allow me to respond one paragraph at a time…

My name is Kwame and I read over your blog posts on Biblical naturalists and nudity. I had a few questions. Firstly, I didn't do a thorough in-depth review of your site and beliefs so forgive me if I misquote, misrepresent or don't accurately capture where you stand:

Thanks for mentioning that. I hope you will take the time to read more of the articles on the site. You might consider starting from the beginning, since the articles are not time-related, so the older posts are still as “current” as the latest ones.

1. Since we are in a fallen world, do you advocate that women should not pursue dressing modestly and covering the areas that cultures, churches and certain ethnicities, religions objectify?

Let me point out two assumptions in your question which I believe are in error:

You assume that God gives us instructions about clothing to address the fact that we’re “fallen.” Look again… you will not find in the Bible. Some take Gen. 3:21 and interpret it that way, but the biblical text does not support it (see The Biblical Purpose of Clothing where I address God’s purpose for clothing Adam and Eve in a multi-part series).

You also assume that our standards of conduct should be based on cultural, ecclesiastical, ethnic, or religious standards. The truth is that if any of those contexts teach something that is contrary to God’s Word, we have no obligation to abide by it. The fact that we are pretty much forced (legally) to abide by those false standards in our culture does not make those standards right or healthy.

2. Yes, God created us naked and we were to live in paradise as such but when Christ came and rose the early church still had clothes and they still warned women to adorn themselves in modesty. So how does that factor in to your call of men to lead the way in explaining this naturist path?

Clothing has been used throughout human history… including the time of Christ on the earth. However, the assumption that nudity is indecent and forbidden is historically quite recent. In Christ’s day, Jewish and (later) Christian baptisms were performed nude (read this). Fishermen fished nude (read this). In the OT, prophets evidently were regularly nude (read this). No, the Bible never tells us that we must be nude, but neither does it tell us that we must be clothed.

It is also important to note that simply because something was practiced in bible times does not mean that it is a requirement for our practices today (should we still have arranged marriages or slavery?)

Regarding “modesty,” there’s only one verse in all the Bible that talks about modesty (1 Tim. 2:9-10) and Paul wasn’t talking at all about making sure the body is covered… he was talking about wearing things to show off one’s wealth (Read this and C. S. Lewis on Modesty/Chastity). Furthermore, even the translation of that passage as “modest clothing” is difficult to defend when you really examine the underlying Greek text (Rightly Dividing 1 Tim. 2:9).

3. I agree with you, men ought to clean up their minds more and succumb their passions and desires to the greater good who is God. However, we know not all are in the same place in this Christian race and should we not care and be on best behavior towards our brothers who are weakest in Christ?

If a brother is “weaker,” we are supposed to be sensitive to that, but should we not make the effort to turn a “weak” brother into a “strong” one? Often, I fear this passage is misused to tell someone that they cannot do something that someone else thinks is wrong! That’s not what Paul was trying to communicate in Rom. 14 and 1 Cor. 10. But I have another blog post in the works that addresses those passages specifically.

How do we help men “clean up their minds”? Men think that whenever they see a woman’s body that they will automatically have a sexual/lustful response. So… we never let them see a woman’s body. Does that help them clean up their minds? No… it only confirms and strengthens their sexualized view of a woman’s body. They never ever see a woman’s body except when they are having sex with their own wife, or using pornography to sexually gratify themselves. Does that help them clean up their minds? No, it only reinforces their view that nudity is all about sex.

The fastest way a man can get to the point of treating the sight of a woman’s body with respect—remembering that she is a person and not an object—is if he actually has the opportunity to see a woman’s body in a non-sexual context where he is compelled by simple courtesy to treat her with the dignity she deserves.

You know how they train young doctors to treat the nudity of their patients with respect, avoiding a sexual response? They don’t.They simply let them serve their patients. They discover immediately that the “automatic” response isn’t automatic at all (read My View of Nakedness by a male obstetric nurse who’s also a pastor.

4. When Paul says that our body's are not our own and to flee from sexual immorality. Aren't these safe practices (dress code) the church has taken to make this possible?

You’re assuming that a “dress code” actually works… but does it? Does the sight of unclothed human flesh “automatically” result in sexual arousal? Or is that a conditioned response? Is that a biblically valid purpose for clothing? Does God ever command clothing to abate or prevent lust? (Read this)

The truth is that that notion is completely man-made. Paul told us in Colossians 2:20-23 that man-made rules will never help us to suppress fleshly indulgence… no matter how “wise” the rules appear.

Quite frankly, I believe the exact opposite is true… when we treat the unclothed human form as if it is lust-inducing and only sexual, we actually ensure that people will struggle with sexual sin. Simple curiosity about the human form is interpreted as “sexual” interest, yet that curiosity is actually God-given and quite normal! Why shouldn’t be be drawn to the beauty of God’s highest creation?

But you tell me that it’s wrong to see it… you tell me that observing it is a sexual event… I now expect to experience sexual responses, so I do. Now I have no recourse but to assume that I have a disordered sexual interests that I can’t shake free of.

You asked me your questions because you read The Objectification of Women – Part 1. But did you read Part 2? It speaks to the fact that if there are certain parts of a woman’s body that must be covered in order for me to avoid lust, then those parts of a woman’s body are what I am objectifying.

Jesus wouldn’t have lusted after a woman even if he saw her completely naked. Instead, He would treat her with respect and dignity. If we aim to be Christ-like, then we must make that same response our standard of behavior… nothing less.

Why I am a Naturist…

Some might wonder why I am a naturist. It is not because I have an unhealthy or sinful interest in nudity. Rather it is for two primary reasons:

The Glory of God

God is insulted by the fact that we have so redefined His image as found in the unclothed human form that we only see a temptation to sexual misconduct, rather than seeing His glory on display

Moral Purity

You have assumed that clothing is needed is to promote sexual purity, but I believe that frank, respectful exposure has the very best chance of achieving that goal… in my life, the life of my children, and anyone who is willing to let go of their pornographic view of the body.

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