Occupiers Celebrate 4th of July by…Burning American Flags and Vandalizing Police Property

A few points, in a roundabout way. What is the purpose of the 2nd Amendment? To protect oneself against an
aggressive, corrupt government. The 1st guarantees freedom of speech, which is what they are doing here. The Founding Fathers had the foresight to see
that there would be times that the people would have to defend itself from the government and gave the people the tools. They are using them. You
can't pick and choose what you want from the Constitution. Lastly, this "Their side is wrong, our side is right" is what is wrong with America.
Keep it up. The PTB are laughing all the way to the bank.

Originally posted by Kali74
ETA So you not only want us to police our own actions and arrest vandals, but you want us to go out to any and all protests and police those too?

Somehow I get the feeling that the first part of your question annoys you. Does it? Would policing the group's activates be too much to ask for?

If they cant do that then what makes people who support them think they can handle something as infinitely more complex as the lives of over 300+
Million Americans? Not to mention the Global economy of 7.8 Billion people?

Yes it does annoy me... a lot to be honest. We do our thing, we meet, talk and decide how we're going to hold an action. We stick to those decisions
and those decisions NEVER include violence or destruction. If other people show up and do their thing how is it even remotely our place to try to stop
them? All we can do is say we're not about destruction. Police are anywhere we go, or are we to understand that they can't handle it? The police let
it happen and you know damn well why.

If they cant do that then what makes people who support them think they can handle something as infinitely more complex as the lives of over 300+
Million Americans? Not to mention the Global economy of 7.8 Billion people?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I'll ask this. What are the real OWS supporters doing to prevent these types of activities carried out in their name?

Would they come unglued if the Police were to step in and kick some butt to maintain order and would they then jump off their mythical fence on the
side of the protesters that don't represent them as being victims of Police brutality?

Excellent questions actually .

Bottom line is this. OWS hasn't taken the steps to aggressively distant themselves from these anarchists. They are not "jumping" into the mix, and
telling these anarchists to stop. I say if they are truly willing to distant themselves from these people, who only want complete mayhem, and do not
want change, then take care of the problem. Figure a way to do it , Or watch the Police do it. But don't complain.MHO

Kicking butt isn't needed, arrests are. Vandalism is a crime. At almost every Occupy protest where some people have decided to go against GA and
commit vandalism, the vandals are pointed out to cops who do nothing. What more are we supposed to do? Livestreamers have even been threatened for
filming them being destructive. What more can we do to denounce people who choose destruction than to say that isn't us, we don't condone this? This
wasn't even an Occupy protest to begin with...

Originally posted by Kali74
What more can we do to denounce people who choose destruction than to say that isn't us, we don't condone this?

Citizens arrest. ,Heck Im a hands on guy, myself.

There are ways to take care of problems. I am sure the many "intellectuals" in the OWS movement, can figure something out. OWS wont get any help
from the police, because they didn't stop this early enough. They allowed EVERYONE in their little camps. They allowed "stuff" to happen, that made
the majority of the US, think the whole OWS movement was just filled with these "types". You have a hard battle ahead, I'm afraid.

Okay next time I see someone committing vandalism at a protest (I've never seen it here in Boston) I'll be sure to risk my safety and perform a
citizens arrest. Criminal elements were pointed out to police at camps from the beginning. As to why nothing was done, you'd have to ask the
particular officers.

I have never seen a hundred peaceful protesters, surround these people. EVER. Keep them cordoned off. They are not hard to find. What are these
anarchist going to do if they are surrounded ? Lash out ? You have a right to protect yourselves. I would think these protests for some,mean
EVERYTHING. OWS needs to take control of their own surroundings. Do you want the Police sending a message to the Anarchists? Whats the Police's
message to them ? The very thing you want to avoid. Just my 2 cents.....

To start with, how do YOU define freedom of speech? In this day and age? Tea cozies? Round table discussions? Are you willing to disallow those
protesters from their rights? This isn't new. Flag burning has been a mainstay for protest for over 40 years. They aren't dissing the country, they
are dissing the government. I find it interesting that you don't like the Dem gov. and still diss those from the "other side" that are being active
in dissing the same gov. Think about that. You actually have more in common with them than you think. But it's the other side.

To start with, how do YOU define freedom of speech? In this day and age? Tea cozies? Round table discussions?

I don't define it. The constitution and SCOTUS do that.

Are you willing to disallow those protesters from their rights? This isn't new. Flag burning has been a mainstay for protest for over 40
years.

No. They have a right to burn the flag...not cars and property. I have a right to express my disgust with it.

They aren't dissing the country, they are dissing the government. I find it interesting that you don't like the Dem gov. and still diss those
from the "other side" that are being active in dissing the same gov.

Their reason and right to protest isn't in dispute; their methods are.

Think about that. You actually have more in common with them than you think. But it's the other side. Not cogent thinking. More like "led"
thinking. "Led by who?"

Nice try but NO. I work for a living and I love my country. I'm not inclined to start fires and destruct property just because I don't like
something. These people are acting like spoiled children and that's because most are. If you want to associate with that garbage enjoy but don't
lump me in with them.

Dont thank me pal i got my paycheck, so did the rest of the ppl in uniformed service many that are not veterans that bathe in the attention though
they do not deserve it. Would you thank the guy who restocks the shelves at the store? The MSM has a habit of making heroes out of nothing.

My definition of a Veteran is someone who saw action or was deployed to support said action, not a recruiter or cook that just happened to be in the
service while that action was going on.

Think about that. You actually have more in common with them than you think. But it's the other side. Not cogent thinking. More like "led"
thinking. "Led by who?"

Nice try but NO. I work for a living and I love my country. I'm not inclined to start fires and destruct property just because I don't like
something. These people are acting like spoiled children and that's because most are. If you want to associate with that garbage enjoy but don't
lump me in with them.

So you are saying that protesters from the left that are protesting Obama don't love their country? Don't have jobs? Shouldn't exercise their
rights? There is NO logic there my friend. Only blind, manipulated thinking. That's either ignorance or willful manipulation.

I work for a living and I love my country as well. If I didn't love my country so fiercely I wouldn't bother with things like Occupy. I wouldn't
devote an ounce of energy to posting, protesting or discussing what's wrong and how to fix it. I want my son to grow up loving America just like I
did, not being afraid or resentful of it.

You have the right to disagree with me and with Occupy, I can respect that. But you don't need to disagree by propagating lies and
mis/disinformation, you are choosing to disagree with us that way and I can't respect that.

it is lazy and ignorant to piant large groups of people with the same brush

But thats the main issue here. If no one comes out of the Official OWS group to say "we do not condone the behavior of occupy ( insert random noun
here )." then all the general public (and myself) can do is paint using that large brush.

It really is quite simple.. call up one of the networks for an interview, and state that the occupiers on wall street do not support the burning of
the flag, or all the others things and keep it at that. it might actually give some cred to OWS. but I guess since no ones done that they would
rather have the bad publicity.

I find burning the U.S. flag disgusting and morally repugnant. I'm a big fan of free speech, and while I will not stop oppose anybody from burning a
flag ebcause it is symbolic speech, I will not support anybody who does so and I will withdraw my support from anybody who does so if I had supported
them before.

Occupy Oakland vs "Black Bloc" highly recommend watching this one. If anyone can say the two groups are the same after watching these then you are
making a choice to lie. I say it again Occupy Oakland was not even at the protests the OP is claiming.

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