Posted
by
Soulskill
on Wednesday July 06, 2011 @05:12AM
from the google-is-in-all-the-things-now dept.

cylonlover writes "One of the differences between real cycling and indoor training is the fact that when riders are on the road, the topography of the area determines the pedaling effort required. By contrast, when on a stationary bike, riders usually just vary their output as they feel like it. In an attempt to make indoor training more like the real thing, Pro-Form's Le Tour de France Indoor Cycle lets users choose or create real-world routes using Google Maps, then adjusts the angle of the riding platform to replicate the experience of riding up and down those roads."

Ooh, ooh, and some way to simulate jumping onto the pavement at speed and then running down an old lady. Exervise the skills we'll actually use in the real world!

So far I've only managed to hit a child* and near-miss a woman**, but I'm practising all the time:-|

* He ran out into the road, but I'd 98% stopped by the time I hit him; fortunately he wasn't hurt. (He apologised a lot in French, so maybe he looked the wrong way before stepping out (or maybe not). Another time I was on a bus that hit an American at night (4am) in central London on Valentine's Day. He'd walked out looking the wrong way, according to his distraught girlfriend. He wasn't OK, blood and cuts a

That sounds crazy but it might work in practice...put the simulator on the end of a long arm that can spin around (like one of those astronaut centrifuges we see on TV). When you go around a corner, spin it up.

Not quite correct - the rotation direction of the centrifuge is irrelevant.

In reality, a turn correctly taken will result in the internal ear still detecting the vertical (even if the eye will tell you something else) and your body an extra "gravitational pull" (the centrifuge force).In the simulated environ able to recreate extra g-forces, you would only need only keep the bicycle aligned to the "vertical", visually isolate it and replace the view in from of the cyclist with a tilting scenery.

Whatever geekery one might apply to the stationary bike, there is nothing that can be done about the fact that they are just plain boring to use. Sure, we can try using fans to simulate headwind and maybe play porn movies to alleviate the boredom (though the combination of a bike saddle, exercise and a hard-on doesn't entice me much for some reason).

But for a comparatively small outlay we can buy an OK bike and take advantage of some interaction with the Outside World(TM). Even better if we can use the ma

Not having tried it, I'm not surprised to hear that. Unless they can somehow simulate the centripetal force (jump in, pedants) from turning a corner when you lean, I'd have trouble believing it would be anything more than gimmicky. In fact, sounds downright terrifying. Note: I is a mechanical engineer and cyclist, but could still be wrong.

Computer monitored Indoor training has replaced road work for many riders to the extent that they can produce the wattage to ride fast, but are incompetent in basic driving skills. This can be seen even at the elite levels with crashes in the straight aways and cornering without the slightest calculation of the apex.

Admitted, I am an old bastard who raced in wool shorts, toe straps, leather shoes, leather helmets and analog gearing where a ten speed meant 5 cogs and two chain rings. An American, I was ra

Spoken like someone who apparently has ridden neither exercise bikes, nor real bikes. You can vary the resistance of exercise bikes, and you are also free to vary gears and/or pedalling effort on a real bike. The news here is the Google Maps routes for exercise bikes bit.

Perhaps more to the point, any exercise bike with a computer-controlled resistance is likely to have a variety of profiles where the resistance is increased/decreased automatically. Unlike the Google-inspired routes, they also tend to be designed for specific purposes.. training for climbing, training for endurance, training for just building muscle, etc.

I can see where it could be useful, however - if somebody rides a particular route outside quite regularly but a giant dust storm (hi Phoenix!) decides to screw their schedule.. load the route into the trainer's computer and off you go. But I rather suspect the experience will still be nowhere near the same in terms of the particular resistance given.

So in general I enjoy the geek factor, but practical use seems limited; as with most things in life, I suppose.

Like this [computrainer.com], for example? This is not a new product - possibly its a slight convenience tool in making it easier to put together courses, but the GPS -> grade-specific training file process isn't that hard now, and often contains much finer elevation change information than the Google Maps version, especially when taken with a device that supports barometric altitude like an Edge.

The new CycleOps has announced support for video cameras, making it easier to get a full "re-ride" experience if you ride with

I used to go to a gym where they had tilting recumbents, all wired together. The bikes had a big fan you drove with the pedals; the harder you went the more wind in your face. They had a big monitor to show you where you were. You could race preset courses against other riders on the network, or you could race against the computer.

These things were cool! If you ran into something like a wall or a tree, the pedals would lock up. You could ride under water and have to dodge fish.

I can appreciate what you're saying there, but I just can't bring myself to riding stationary bicycles and I don't care how fancy the simulations get. It's not riding a bicycle.

I'm totally with you on the hills except that my almost daily ride features about 20+lbs of stuff I bring to work with me including change of clothes, shoes and gear. I enjoy those smaller hills as I barely notice them any more. There are quite a few steep and long inclines where I live which were, at first, murderous and most peo

Exercise bikes don't come with the same sense of accomplishment a real bike has. Results of real bicycle usage are far more measurable to me. Also, with a real bicycle on a real street, I can see lots of things and I need to concentrate more on what's going on around me instead of the exercise which means I an not thinking of the workout I have been getting which actually helps a LOT more than anything else. The very moment I think of "exercise" is the same moment I begin to feel tired.

I teach indoor cycle, and what you say is true. You don't get the handling skills. OTOH I can take you to the edge of your aerobic capacity, and hold you there for a lot longer than most people will do on a real bike. It's a different form of exercise. Stationary bike skills don't translate to road bike skills.

I haven't done muchdistance riding, but I use to cycle to work every morning, which was uphill most of the way, and I could do the whole thing in the hardest gear - on the really steep bit I just stood up to get more power. It took something like 30 minutes to get in in the morning, and 5 minutes to get home..:)

Exercise bikes can simulate hills fine without needing to vary the angle, just by increasing the resistance.

Doing it wrong. There is no benefit in doing it 'in the hardest gear'. It is really bad for your knees and is more likely to strain muscles than to properly exercise them. The gears are there to allow you to maximize your energy efficiency.

Well going up a steep hill even if you are on the lowest gear is still a lot harder going flat on high gear. I cant talk about pros but myself I feel the urge to try to bike at the same speed. So while I am in in low gear I am peddling faster up the hill burring a lot more energy.

The real secret is to keep your peddling speed and applied force as constant as possible. This means the gear system must be used to help regulate that. Speed is also a consideration for some people, but I don't ride for speed or time.

Back in 1995 I had a summer membership at Golds Gym. They had two recumbant excercise bikes there that both had large monitors in front of them. It was a virtual reality thing (yes, that was the craze back then). There was a virtual world (graphics were decent, but not fantastic), and as you went up-hill, or downhill, the resistance would change. You could also lean to turn.

Both the bikes were networked together. My buddy and I would race, and cut off the road, and over fields (hitting sheep and other

Damn. That sounds hilarious:) Keeping it interesting is definitely the way to go, then you don't even realise you've been "exercising". Which is why I stopped going to the gym and prefer instead to do Parkour.

Damn. That sounds hilarious:) Keeping it interesting is definitely the way to go, then you don't even realise you've been "exercising". Which is why I stopped going to the gym and prefer instead to do Parkour.

Just tilting the bike would not increase the effort required by the user, unless they had some variable system in it that would make peddling more difficult, and then they could even simulate gear changes needing different peddling power for different situations.

At least with bikes it's fairly trivial to add resistance. The one I've never understood is when they incline a treadmill. I mean, surely people realize that running up an incline is challenging because you are physically *moving* your body in opposition to gravity. Tilting a treadmill just forces you to raise your knees higher when you run, which is a bit harder, I suppose, but not at all analogous.

I thought the same as you; but have recently gotten back into running (real-world) and thought "Meh, increasing incline doesn't do anything." Then I tried it. Holy hell. The incline increase forces you to use different muscles - even though the motor is still powering the belt underneath, you utilize more of your calves on a sharper incline. Seems to mimic more of a hill than one would normally think as you have to adjust your balance to stay upright.

Well yeah, that's a good point about using different muscles. It's essentially a different running technique, so even if you aren't actually fighting gravity, you are using your legs in a different way. So it's not that it doesn't do anything, it's just not really like running up a hill.

No, its exactly the same as a hill. You are absolutely climbing, your upward movement is just cancelled out by the downward movement of the treadmill, just as your forward movement is cancelled out by the reverse motion of the treadmill.

Make no mistake, you ARE climbing in opposition to gravity on an inclined treadmill, not merely working different muscles.

The one I've never understood is when they incline a treadmill. I mean, surely people realize that running up an incline is challenging because you are physically *moving* your body in opposition to gravity. Tilting a treadmill just forces you to raise your knees higher when you run, which is a bit harder, I suppose, but not at all analogous.

-facepalm-

Tilting a treadmill is exactly the same as running up a hill, in that you are moving your body up an inclined plane in opposition to gravity.

Hmmmm.... good point. Maybe it has to do with the way I run. A treadmill requires you to remain stationary, which is equivalent to maintaining a constant velocity, and a constant velocity eliminates inertia as a concern. Running on an actual hill could have some inefficiencies due to variance in the vertical component of velocity, which might make the force of your strides spike higher and trough lower... Or maybe the difference is all in wind resistance. I always thought running up an inclined treadmi

Yeah, that was my thought as well. IMO the tilting is a rather small part of making it feel real; pedal resistance is a much bigger factor. The article mentions that they can simulate wind resistance (so the system has the ability to vary the amount of pedaling effort required), but nowhere does it say that they actually tie this in to the inclination data.

This is a pretty decent development compared to what they usually have at gyms for their cycling.My local one is currently using heartbeat assisted cycling, where everyone is using a wireless heartbeat monitor and the results are displayed on the wall via a projector.

I have long been wondering why the cycles cannot be used to do real routes, by automatically controlling the bike magnets to reduce or increase the effort based on the distance you have so far gone, and maybe even showing everyone

When I read the summary I thought it might have gone side to side and projected streeview on the wall. Whilst I'd much rather be outside on a real bike I do spend a lot of time in crank classes. I'd love to be able to load up a classic bike ride from Europe and get going without worrying about idiot drivers or bike riders who have more expensive equipment than me.

I cycled to work during the last winter and actually found it somewhat enjoyable. Just make sure you have a good headlight. The output of some types of batteries breaks down when they get cold. The AA LiPo ones I finally bought work ok at -10C.

I cycled to work during the last winter and actually found it somewhat enjoyable. Just make sure you have a good headlight. The output of some types of batteries breaks down when they get cold. The AA LiPo ones I finally bought work ok at -10C.

Much will depend on your definition of winter, which I guess depends on where you live:)

Temperature for me really isn't a problem. Remember, cross country skiers deal with this kind of weather all the time. Once you get moving, your body generates its own heat. The reason that I don't ride in the winter is the sheer amount of snow we get. Start with a layer of freezing rain, add a bit of snow on top, and you are asking for trouble. Not to mention the salt they put on the roads. That's terrible for your bike.

Well there are a few advantages to being in the gym.1. You have 365day 24 hours access, without problems of weather getting in the way. Biking in even an inch of snow is very tough and dangerous.2. Not all roads are safe for bikers. I happen to live on some high volume county roads where there isn't much of a breakdown lane (if any) and a lot of large trucks drive by.3. When biking you need to bike until you are Half warn out so you can turn around and go back the other way... Judging when you are half w

Although I agree with most advantages you list for biking in the gym, we should also list the advantages of real biking outside:

1. The fresh air and/or the lack of sweaty people right next to you.2. You can see your surroundings. You can check out the scenery and you get a chance to get to know where you live.3. It can actually get you from A to B. Like from home to work. And back.4. You do not have a contract for 1 year with your bicycle. You just own it forever. And you can use it as much as you like.5. D

I live in sunny, flat Tampa. I have to drive half an hour (or ride an hour or more) to get to anything remotely resembling a decent hill. Increasing resistance on my trainer is one thing, but raising the nose of the bike at the same time would really help me practice climbs. It's not perfect, but it better simulates the necessary change in posture.

I recently returned to northern Virginia, where I first rode (what we then called) a ten-speed, and I thought, "I rode these hills?" Of course, fifteen miles was

Simulate being in the small room, while actually being in the big room.

We could add a display monitor that'd double as a TV. Also, maybe we could hook into a global network of satellites to try to figure out where you are (to avoid having to open the portals of simulator and ask biological beings where you are).

Pfft! Big deal - that's already been done. I saw those at a gym in 1995 back when virtual reality was all the rage.

They weren't installed yet though - there were dozens of them all lined up outside. But they were all unwrapped and looked like they were ready to go. I wasn't quite sure how they were going to fit them all inside though.

Years ago while working on ergonomics we got a request to speed up traffic through tunnels. Drivers had no reference enough to the environment and pushed the gas pedal only when the car slowed down on the climb out. Lines on the tunnel walls that represented the actual level and even inclined a bit against the actual level did wonders. Drivers anticipated and pushed the gas pedal earlier.

I notice this walking through tunnels between underground stations. One of the tunnels between different lines at King's Cross St Pancras (London) is very steep, but the tiles/lines/decor is all parallel with the floor. It's quite disconcerting.

Around here the city has been giving away trees for planting in the parking strip along city streets. Part of the reason why is the effect they have on pollution, but the other reason is that it tends to cause traffic to slow a bit and obey the speed limit.

I was somewhat skeptical myself, but I noticed that although I'm not one for speeding, that I would want to speed along streets with long stretches of nothing along one or both sides. It just seemed like I was getting nowhere even when I was going precise

What about simulating pot-holes, sleeping policemen, traffic lights, etc. You set it to Hard Core Bike Courier mode and have buses pull out or car doors swing open in front of you and if you don't swerve or stop the bike ejects you forward like Buck-a-Roo.

I guess the only newsworthy thing is that you can use Google maps. I already tried out an exercise bike back in the 90s which used a video/large TV combo together with a course profile which was used to vary the resistance of the bike. So you could choose from a variety of recorded courses (e.g. Tour de France stages, etc.), put the video plus the course profile into the machine, and then when e.g. you saw a climb on the video, the resistance of the bike increased accordingly. So the only difference between

because it's 119 degrees outside, or it's raining, or there's a crazy head wind, or you're afraid of becoming roadkill, etc. And many don't like gyms. Some people who are very introverted, like myself, would rather not spend our limited social energy on strangers at the gym. So, Hell, do what ever suits you.

The technology has been around for years, when I was in college they had bikes there where you would pick a course and the course would project on the screen looking like a video game with other riders. The pedaling resistance would increase and decrease as you would go up and down hills and you have to turn the bike and shift gears as well. Only difference here is the Google maps, which just seems like it is more advanced technology that would cost more, with no real upgrade to the training.

That way you can see the actual surroundings. Also, periodically the street view car comes by, the bike forces you to slow down so you can get off, turn your back and cover your face while waiting for it to pass.

Both products have been available for many years. The Tacx unit has an available steering head, so while you can' t lean the whole bike, you can turn and interact with the course. While the forward/backwards tilting is a new innovation, the interactive virtual trainer certainly is not. Both calculate wind resistance based on height and weight, resistance, etc. Both offer b

While that's cool and all, why stop with real-world environments? You can ride in the real world any day. Instead, load up Google Mars [google.com] and cycle up to the summit of Olympus Mons. Or ride Mario Kart's Rainbow Road [mariowiki.com]. Or heck, glide through the air on a vaguely steampunk-ish ornithropter [arcade-museum.com] popping balloons for points. Reality is for people with tiny imaginations.