In case you missed it, Opteron was launched yesterday. The early results: a very impressive first offering, especially in 64-bit mode. There were some concerns about the samples being sent out at 1.55V instead of the recommended 1.45V. Many ascribe this to early SOI issues; others have suggested that Opteron is already pushing the thermal envelope and there won't be much headroom. I don't buy the latter. AMD had SOI design issues and that was a major factor in Hammer's delay. As such, it only makes sense that AMD will sort them out in time and that future models will continue to get faster and faster while running cooler and cooler. One of the things I found most interesting in the new benchmarks was how significant the NUMA (Non-Uniform Memory Access) is to a dual-Opteron configuration. NUMA means that since some of the memory is connected to processor 0 and some of the memory to processor 1, any requests which physically access all of memory will end up splitting their job between the two processors, and this means slower memory accesses because it has to go “through” another CPU to get it. Windows 2000 Server is not NUMA-aware, and often showed the dual-Opteron system performing more poorly than a single-Opteron system. However, with Windows 2003 this should change, for it is NUMA-aware. The same benchmarks run on Windows 2003 should provide much better dual performance than the benchmarks seen today. Another thing I found interesting was how much better the processor did in 64-bit mode. In some instances the performance increase was amazing. It goes to show you how significant additional GPR (General-Purpose Registers) are to computing. In 64-bit mode the processor can use 16 GPRs instead of just 8. This decreased memory access significantly and notably increases performance. All in all, a very impressive offering from AMD. Their first ever new architecture, their first ever product designed to target Intel's high-end server market, and their first ever 64-bit processor. Everything worked, no major problems reported. AMD is off to a great start. Here's a roundup for your reading pleasure:

I bet 64-bit Linux will whip asses running on a multi-CPU Opteron system!

– by The Scavenger

64 bit winner(10:22am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)This CPU will just kick Itanium and G5 in the teeth. There is now way you will be able to get a good performing 64 bit and 32 bit system, for the dollar, like you will from AMD. Like WOW, this is just the first release. 2 more revisions and better fabbing will only mean it will get better, and probably for less money. Run windows, windows64 or any flavor of linux you please, for very small money. Smart move AMD, now stop bleeding cash everywhere – by AMD good for you

This really means nothing to me…(10:23am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)…until the 64-bit Windows XP is available. And more to the point, 64-bit applications that will actually make it worth the purchase. I have to admit I only glanced over the benchmarks, but from what I've seen this won't be a big deal to guys like me until sometime in 2004. – by MSP

Hmmmm……(10:29am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)…..question isn't how much they cost, as AMD is keeping up the tradition of great bang for the buck, trouble is I literally have no place or funds to build another machine. But next time I upgrade, I think it'll be an Opteron machine. Come on in, the water's wonderful…… – by Ziwiwiwiwiwiwiwiwiwi

Really(11:02am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Looking at the the die, over half is used for the L2 Cache, I cant help but wonder if you would get a better performing workstation chip if you lost 128-256k of the 1MB cache and put in a couple of extra fully functioning FPU?

– by braindead?

Sw-e-e-t(11:20am EST Wed Apr 23 2003) GEEK.com Rocks …I was terrified you guys where going to link off to that has-been/coulve-been site THG!! I hope Anand or some other small but honest sites might get there hands on this so i can get a cleaner pickture. Either way i aint going back to ignorance and the “dark-side” waygo-Opto. if only they had agp i would get an 8 way beast for my renders. i'm starting to think i might learn maya or something other than 3DS as theyve gone lightwave on us with version 5! bloody-hell ..oh well hmmm!? – by very Sweeet

AMD good for you(11:28am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)G5? I'm assuming you already know the price points for the IBM powerpc 970? Why don't you let us all in on your secret info. Opteron seems like it will be choked off by it's relatively slow FSB. The 970 will have a 900MHz FSB. – by clone206

Does it(11:36am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Have a FSB ..i thought one of those things was removed by it's built in mem controler!? FUD or simply confusion ..either way it aint INTEL …SwweeeeeeeT! – by Very sweeeT

Anantech(11:56am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)There is a great review over there. Take a look. He uses real world tests and not the Intel favored ones. – by John

I here by dub thee…(11:59am EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Flopteron!

– by 2cent

I was thinking on similar lines, Brainiac – (12:26pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)The 1 MB of cache seems to be over 60% of the chip. Benchies of course benefit from all that cache, but I should think that quad pipelined integer, quad floating point, dual SSE … might drop cache to 512 MB, and yet seriously take the crown from a benchie+real-world perspective.

Cache isn't king. Queen, perhaps but not king.

PS: it seems like all of these guys are just desparate for an external L3 cache that is BIG … say 16 MB or so, and has something between 55 nanosec DRAM access and 8 nanosec L2 cache speed.

There's something for every benchie in this configuration: tiny code, tight loops, swing with the big apes in L1. Medium code shuffles around quite nicely in the L2. Larger code [like FFT's, and raytracing] does its hoozits in L3, and vast quantities of data [as in for scientific / engineering calcs] lives in L4. Finally, dual-channel DDR pulls up the rear, offering huge burst bandwidth to FILL all those caches.

But of course, this is probably too avante garde for everyone, so it won't happen soon enough.

– by GoatGuy

512 KB … errata(12:27pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)… – by GG

Wake up and smell the coffee(12:28pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Between Intel and AMD, who release the first 64-bit processor? Let me guess perhaps Intel. How long ago? Quite some time in computer technology standard time. If you are a good business person, you have to realize that you always want to take the lead. Therefore, what do you think Intel is going to do next? Go to sleep. I do not think that is going to be the case. I am sure Intel will have something in the market soon and by the way better than AMDís product. In conclusion, AMD is taking off after Intelís dust has settle down. I hope AMD does not choke on it. – by Drink more coffe

Re: Wake up and smell the coffee(12:36pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Between AMD and Intel, Intel did release the first 64 bit processor but it was a server cpu, which was nothing special considering most server processors were 64 bit. Either AMD or IBM will release the first desktop cpu depending on which cpu, the Athlon 64 or PPC 970 will be released first. – by DS

Toms Hardware review ok(12:46pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Also, I'd say that the Toms Hardware review is okay, Anandtech only tested using server benchmarks which as Toms Hardware and Aces Hardware points out, the Opteron rules at. Toms also included workstation benchmarks using real world apps. It's not that the results are any different from Anandtech or Aces, it's just that Tom's didn't base it solely only server performance. I mean the Opteron isn't meant only for low end, mid range servers is it? – by DS

2cent(12:50pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003) yer 2-funny …Troll!

Go away and take that tail between yer leggs with! you sound an awfull lot like this loser that used to come here called Nataku who talked the most nonsensacle drivel ive ever heard ..dude get a life and try the trueth sometime ..i know ..i know it hurts ..but that's just cuz yer a vergin …relax it feels better that way! – by very SweeeT

bugs found on Opteron(12:50pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)– by DS

DS(1:22pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)I'll asume yer green(newbie) here to the world of tech reports and lay off a little. here's a small history of THG so you are up to speed and i'm sure many of the other fellows can help you further with any more details on the matter.

I'll start with a simple metaphorical question. would you trust someone who murdered your family and raped your mom right in front of you …hold on heres the punch line…ten years after the fact he asks you to forgive him as he's a changed man? I sure as hell would'nt and under those cirrcumstances i'd wish i'd grown up in Texas where the bastard wouldnt have a chance to talk smak ten yrs latter anyhow!

Yrs back THG was the trusted site of most techies who wanted access to the real #'s and we trusted him because he proved himself true when we tested the #'s ourselves and we saw how he had to “fight” to keep it honest agaist a giant like INTEL who even went as far as threatening to sue him. he stood like a little wolverine in the face of a goliath and simply said …”screw you”! After much loss and pain agaist AMD ..they realized the TRUETH hurt like hell as their “marketechture was having it's ass handed to them on a silver platter(served with a smile of course)! So INTEL let loose the dogs of war and let the gloves of there PSYCH-SQUAD who where made to find the PHYCHOLOGICAL volnerabilities of INTEL enemies (art of war ..Sun Zu)and EXPLOIT them like using your enemies energy against them …in the case of THG it was his cock/ego and desperate need for respect …clearly seen with his need to be reffered to as (our own) “DOCTOR” Pabst. Give me a break what a looser. any how he just had to play JUDAS to the trueth for a few critical articles and he would have goliaths favor and access to their tech early (from what i heard the at first denied him access so he would feel pian from loss of hitts …then wait till he was nice and tender and more vulnerable to suggestion. consider INTEL was losing 10's if not 100's of millions if THG stayed true! Anyhow he sold out and is now a scum site and i have no more time to get more specific but it's a great story you might want to take a closer look into ..hell maybe make a movie out of …the dude could have been a god in his industry and gotten the respect he so desperately yearned for but now he's just a little rat-boy RAMBUS-LIKE looser. bla bla gotta go ..smell ya later!

hope this tirade helped ya out buddy!– by Look CLOSER

intelOnWednesday(1:22pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Wow, that didn't take long for Intel to post their news to try and fiddle with AMDs release… It's hard to believe but I read at news.com that intel now ~does~ have “IA-32″ support in the itanium. but only a speeds comparable to a 1.5g xeon.I hope that AMD has more to put out this week, like compiler tuning patches and so forth… I'm not going one way or another but the death of either would be bad for all the rest of us.

Maybe it was late at night when the opteron came out and I don't really feel like reading all the reveiws again but are there numbers for Instructions Per Watt? I think that this is what companies look at, you could buy more chips to make up the difference either way but will it cost more electricity? Is the integrated northbridge on the opteron included in the power consumption costs of the systems? – by JustWantToKnow

re:DS(1:36pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Aye, you be a Troll there man?

I mean shal we take a peek and see if INTELs merced/itanic has any bugs ….even three yrs after it's release! maybe i'm confused as they did miss their lauch date by oh …several yrs or so and the shyte still has fleas! – by Troll Hunter

re: Troll Hunter(3:19pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)I pointed out an article about some bugs found on the Opteron, not to start a flame war mind you but since their was no article or post on it. Just to provide all the latest information for our readers. If it were an Intel chip or any other chip, I'd do the same thing, of course if it were an Intel chip, I probably wouldn't have to do anything as their would already probably be a post or article on it. – by DS

Intel will release software later this year designed to dramatically improve how well its Itanium chips run programs written for its Pentium or Xeon processors, CNET News.com has learned.

Sound like a weak response to Opteron. I guess it is a wait and see to see how much a performance hit you will get running 32 bit Pentium/Xeon programs on the Itanium emulator and how it compares with Opteron. – by

Amadeus(4:08pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Rick was referring to X86-64/AMD64. I think any Geek would know that the K5 was AMD's first (and only, as it happens) completely original design. – by Big Fred

What is the point of that?(4:11pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Surely if you invested the $4000+ for an Itanium 2 system, you would take the time to get proper IA-64 software?

And I thought that Itanium 2's X86 performance was about the same as an equivalently clocked CuMine? – by Big Fred

Dear DS,(4:14pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)Please don't make fun of our beloved AMD! It's not very nice and hurts our collective sensitive feeling. Of you want to help us out please post some Intel bashing articles that should help boast our fragile ego's. – by AMD Zealot

On the topic of IBM's PPC 970, it doesnt count for a 64-bit processor because its for the macintosh. They do not count. End of story. Everybody stopped caring about apple because we all know they suck. It doesnt matter how fast their processor is as long as it is an apple. – by apple blows

The G5's price points will be Apple's price points, which have always been high. There is no argument that can be made to the contrary. They have always been the elitest, botique computer provider. If anything, PPC 970 will not lower Apple's prices, but raise them.

“But….but….it's not completely new, it's virtually identical to the Athlon! (If you discount the extra 32bits…)”

Look again at Tom's picture. I know that is where you got that misconception. He drew similar lines around the different areas of both chips that will give you the impression that they are identical. Now look at what is inside his lines. While the defined area shapes are similar, Inside the areas are completely different.

In these terms, The MP is competitive with the Xeon, and a bargain. The Opteron is competitive with the Itanium, and is also a bargain.

It really all depends on what you will be using the server for.

The Xeon is the best chip for running Microsoft SQL. The Opteron is the best chip for running MySQL.

If you need the performance, you need it, and no price is too high.

If you do not need the performance, you get the budget chip.

The way this list looks, the 2.8 happens to be the only chip from Intel that performs as good as a higher priced chip from AMD.

The rest of the list, the opposite is true. Intel margins are anywhere from $100 to $6000 higher on similarly performing chips.

But this only applies to their general performance. When spending money on a server you must buy hardware as performance on your application requires. You can not save money buying a Xeon if your application is, for instance, a Samba file server, because you would need two complete Xeons servers plus a load balancer to achieve the same performance as an Opteron delivers in a single Unit. If you are setting up a Microsoft SQL server, Xeon clearly is the processor of choice.

This does become a game of Linux -vs- Microsoft because of Opteron's sweep of the Linux Server's benchmarks and Xeon's sweep of the Microsoft benchmarks. I expect things will look a bit different when MS Server2003 arrives in a few days. It is NUMA Aware, even in itís 32 bit version. If it provides the performance gain that is expected, you can bet the x86-64 version will be even more complementary to Opteron

Obviously, if these websites upgrade in normal 3 year cycles, and choose the right hardware for the job, about 50,000,000 Opterons will be sold compared to 9,000,000 Xeons (Netcraftís numbers).

If Netcraftís numbers are off by a factor of two, that still gives Opteron over 50% of the market in just three years.

If AMD happens to collect good margins off of Opteron, They will still never be as high as Intel collects off of Itanium. Buy an Opteron and you are paying for $700 worth of silicon. Buy Itanium and you are paying off Intel's 10 billion dollars invested in the development of the chip.

The market is much larger than the narrow view that Xeon 2.8 is cheaper than Opteron 244. I'm just hoping you will expand you mind to see the big picture and understand just how significant this is to the market.

When AMD captured 34% of the desktop market in the year 2000, the 1.2 Ghz Athlon Thunderbird was the top performing x86 chip. The Pentium III at 1Ghz was it's competition. While the Pentuim III held the speed crown in 1998, it cost just under $1000. While the Athlon held the speed crown, it cost $240.

To see what Opteron is doing to the market, Look at Pricewatch CPU prices now, and compare them to the CPU price list from a month ago, based on pricewatch, archived on Sharkey's extreme.

Opteron's release actually caused the low prices you Iím quoting now. Even if you are an Intel fan, you have to like what AMD has done, simply because your hobby is less expensive to feed.– by Perdo

HMM…(10:40pm EST Wed Apr 23 2003)I sure hope intel makes Opeteron chipsets…that way i get the best of both worlds and both companies can profit from this….yay!!!! – by TheJudge

Intel will make something else, as we know Opteron is just a 'compact-64bit-electric-heater' full of faulted circuits. Btw, fake benchmarks hurt!! Amd really need to impress someone with their new chip, coz its a dead or alive situation for them. Not for Intel thou, they have tonnes of $$$$$$ to burn. – by re: theJudge

tons of $$$$$$ to burn(12:04am EST Thu Apr 24 2003)Yeah, Intel loves to throw tons of money on R&D, but what do they really have to show for all that spending? AMD spends a pitance of what Intel spends on R&D a year and they have exceeded Intel in patents the last couple of years in a row now.Could you imagine if AMD had Intel's R&D budget to spend? The Opteron II @ 4.8GHz would have been released on the 22nd instead of a 1.8GHz. :) – by Competition is good!

Essay #2 sort of(5:43am EST Thu Apr 24 2003)Because the Opteron is such an unusual machine, a greater emphasis was placed on real world benchmarks by every single site that has reviewed the machine. The results are clear. Opteron is a world class enterprise system.

Here is a composite of real world benchmarks of Opteron based on Tomís, Aceís and Anandís numbers:

The Opteron leads the Xeon by an Average of 23% in real world, normalized to the 3.06 Xeon, or as close to real world benchmarks as have been provided. – by Perdo

Even more Goodness:(6:29am EST Thu Apr 24 2003)Racksaver Quatrex has the best price performance using TPC-C

Top of the list: Opteron. – by Perdo

Is Opteron really SOI?(8:11am EST Thu Apr 24 2003)I understood that the Athlon 64 was delayed becuase they had problems with the SOI process and had to call in IBM to help them out. This would indicate to me that the Opteron is using the same silicon process as the AthlonXP (i.e. not SOI).If you look at the power consumtion for the Opteron this bear this out. SOI should have a 30% reduction in power consumtion, which we don't see. – by Lefty

Must be SOI(8:27am EST Thu Apr 24 2003)Opteron is 30% larger than Barton due to the extra 512k of cache, so the equivalent power consumption is about right, assuming Opteron is using SOI.– by Perdo

FSB(12:05pm EST Thu Apr 24 2003)Remmember that the Opteron gain an FSB advantage when paired with more than one processor. Since both the PPC970 and Opteron was design for multi-processor usage, the Opteron will have the most massive bandwidth, which will increase which each addition processor.

BTW depends on what you do the L2 is important. But you are right, the Opteron will benefit from a more powerful FPU rather than more cache.