500 Southampton City Council staff to file unfair dismissal claims

FIVE hundred council workers have signed up to lodge multi-million pound unfair dismissal claims, saying they were forced to take pay cuts with a “gun to their heads”.

Bin men and up to 2,400 other council workers are continuing work-to-rule industrial action in a dispute over pay cuts of between two and 5.5 per cent brought in under threat of dismissal on July
11.

Unions are holding meetings with council workers over the coming weeks to discuss possible further walkouts after a 12-week period of legal protection for strikes ended on August 15.

Meanwhile, council officials have admitted residents should only expect fortnightly bin collections for household waste and once a month for recycling as the authority struggles to catch up with a
massive backlog of rubbish from three months of strike action.

Steve Brasier, of the Unison union, said 500 council workers had so far signed up to join unfair dismissal claims against the council that could land it with a multi-million pound bill.

The union claims by failing to provide staff with an opportunity to put forward any representation or the opportunity to appeal against dismissal if they refused to sign up to worse contracts, the
council failed to follow fair procedure.

A separate potential £12.5m legal claim that the council failed to consult the unions on its dismissal plans has been postponed again at the request of the council. A first hearing had been
rescheduled for tomorrow.

After weeks of negotiations a “final” proposal to lift around half of the council workforce – those earning under £21,500 – from the pay cuts and restore some of the pay of higher earners was
resoundingly rejected by a meeting of 600 union members on August 10.

Related links

All social workers would also have been given a pay boost to stop them quitting for better paid jobs elsewhere.

But a two-year pay freeze for all council workers would have remained.

Union leaders have warned staff they could be dismissed if they go on strike again after council leader Cllr Royston Smith said he was not “ruling out
any options”.

The council insists the pay cuts will protect 400 jobs as it seeks to save £76m over the next three and a half years.

A council spokesman said: “The council is confident that all necessary procedures and consultation was carried out in the correct manner and we will challenge any claim in court and through the
correct channels.”

The council is advising residents to leave wheelie bins out at all times as the regular bin collection has been thrown into chaos. The council is continuing to pay contractors to help with the
clear-up.

The gloves are off, Royston Smith's attempts to save money will end up costing the people of Southampton a fortune is lawyers fees.

Nice one Rambo, do the honourable thing and resign, before you cost us any more money.

Ding ding, round one.
The gloves are off, Royston Smith's attempts to save money will end up costing the people of Southampton a fortune is lawyers fees.
Nice one Rambo, do the honourable thing and resign, before you cost us any more money.My View From Here

Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members

Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union membersloosehead

loosehead wrote:
Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members

You haven't been paying attention, industrial action has stopped, what we have now is workers doing exactly what their contracts say, nothing more nothing less.

[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members[/p][/quote]You haven't been paying attention, industrial action has stopped, what we have now is workers doing exactly what their contracts say, nothing more nothing less.My View From Here

Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.

Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.ChrisWilkins

ChrisWilkins wrote:
Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.

Agree Chris, I'm SO sick and flaming tired of all of this, meanwhile the whole town suffers. Procedures will have been followed to the letter, there's too much to lose if they got this wrong.

[quote][p][bold]ChrisWilkins[/bold] wrote:
Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.[/p][/quote]Agree Chris, I'm SO sick and flaming tired of all of this, meanwhile the whole town suffers. Procedures will have been followed to the letter, there's too much to lose if they got this wrong.Smartiepants

I would imagine SCC consulted a top employment lawyer before instigating these changes, if Mike Tucker tried so hard (which I believe he did) to get a resolution there must have been a reason.

I would imagine SCC consulted a top employment lawyer before instigating these changes, if Mike Tucker tried so hard (which I believe he did) to get a resolution there must have been a reason.Condor Man

I would imagine SCC consulted a top employment lawyer before instigating these changes, if Mike Tucker tried so hard (which I believe he did) to get a resolution there must have been a reason.

I would imagine SCC consulted a top employment lawyer before instigating these changes, if Mike Tucker tried so hard (which I believe he did) to get a resolution there must have been a reason.Condor Man

A separate potential £12.5m legal claim that the council failed to consult the unions on its dismissal plans has been postponed again at the request of the council.

Postponed again. Something's wrong there. Time is money.

[quote]A separate potential £12.5m legal claim that the council failed to consult the unions on its dismissal plans has been postponed again at the request of the council.[/quote]
Postponed again. Something's wrong there. Time is money.SpittingMoreFire

ChrisWilkins wrote:
Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.

it is costing union members twice.i pay the council to provide a service,plus i pay the union to withhold the service!

[quote][p][bold]ChrisWilkins[/bold] wrote:
Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.[/p][/quote]it is costing union members twice.i pay the council to provide a service,plus i pay the union to withhold the service!westongirl

How many Council workers live in Southampton and pay Council tax, especially those signing up to fight the council?!
>
Council workers wake up! The Unions are out for their own ends and their own egos! THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!

How many Council workers live in Southampton and pay Council tax, especially those signing up to fight the council?!
>
Council workers wake up! The Unions are out for their own ends and their own egos! THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!George4th

A separate potential £12.5m legal claim that the council failed to consult the unions on its dismissal plans has been postponed again at the request of the council.

Postponed again. Something's wrong there. Time is money.

And postponed at the request of the Council. Now of course they could just be asking for more time to prepare their defence, but in my opinion, I think they're on a dodgy wicket here.
.
Putting a gun to people's heads in oreder to get them to sign a new contract will not be looked on kindly by the courts.
.
If the Council are found to be in the wrong here, then I fully expect heads to roll, including Cllr Smith along with Council officers.

[quote][p][bold]SpittingMoreFire[/bold] wrote:
[quote]A separate potential £12.5m legal claim that the council failed to consult the unions on its dismissal plans has been postponed again at the request of the council.[/quote] Postponed again. Something's wrong there. Time is money.[/p][/quote]And postponed at the request of the Council. Now of course they could just be asking for more time to prepare their defence, but in my opinion, I think they're on a dodgy wicket here.
.
Putting a gun to people's heads in oreder to get them to sign a new contract will not be looked on kindly by the courts.
.
If the Council are found to be in the wrong here, then I fully expect heads to roll, including Cllr Smith along with Council officers.The Watcher

Some people on this forum seem to forget that unions are there to defend their members, not to negotiate lower pay for them. You can hardly blame the unions for doing what they are being paid for. I do not know what the average pay of council workers is but I would not like to work in all weathers collecting stinking rubbish. It is one thing for those on £100,000pa to accept a percentage pay cut and totally different for someone on £20,000. Those on £100k still have a decent income.

Some people on this forum seem to forget that unions are there to defend their members, not to negotiate lower pay for them. You can hardly blame the unions for doing what they are being paid for. I do not know what the average pay of council workers is but I would not like to work in all weathers collecting stinking rubbish. It is one thing for those on £100,000pa to accept a percentage pay cut and totally different for someone on £20,000. Those on £100k still have a decent income.News Fanatic

loosehead wrote:
Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members

You haven't been paying attention, industrial action has stopped, what we have now is workers doing exactly what their contracts say, nothing more nothing less.

Have you been paying attention? the unions stated that industrial action would restart in September how many days away? Just remember the unions were defeated in a vote by their own members.Also if your going to win why allow the other side to build up a defence as by giving the council extra time that would be the logical point of view? Or is it the council are making such a watertight argument that the court cases will be thrown out of court either way why are the unions giving them extra time? I personally would object to that request & take them on when they're not ready.If the unions win & this council have to revise the redundancy figures who actually wins? The unions are suppose to be there to protect jobs even if it's at the cost of lower wages just ask the German Unions so no the unions are not there just to protect pay

[quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members[/p][/quote]You haven't been paying attention, industrial action has stopped, what we have now is workers doing exactly what their contracts say, nothing more nothing less.[/p][/quote]Have you been paying attention? the unions stated that industrial action would restart in September how many days away? Just remember the unions were defeated in a vote by their own members.Also if your going to win why allow the other side to build up a defence as by giving the council extra time that would be the logical point of view? Or is it the council are making such a watertight argument that the court cases will be thrown out of court either way why are the unions giving them extra time? I personally would object to that request & take them on when they're not ready.If the unions win & this council have to revise the redundancy figures who actually wins? The unions are suppose to be there to protect jobs even if it's at the cost of lower wages just ask the German Unions so no the unions are not there just to protect payloosehead

Condor Man wrote:
hang on, didn't 99.9% of the staff sign the new contracts? If they agreed the terms in writing I don't think there's a case to answer for.

After legal scrutiny, the contracts may be not legally binding - possibly by the way they were enforced. Enforced because they were essentially forced to sign under a threat of sacking.

[quote][p][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
hang on, didn't 99.9% of the staff sign the new contracts? If they agreed the terms in writing I don't think there's a case to answer for.[/p][/quote]After legal scrutiny, the contracts may be not legally binding - possibly by the way they were enforced. Enforced because they were essentially forced to sign under a threat of sacking.spotburst

It makes me incredibly sad to see how easily people will turn on each other to try and save a buck. So many negative comments about people that clean the streets and empty the bins.

Suggestions that they should be grateful for the opportunity to serve? So you took a 20% pay cut to keep your job. So what, either that means that you got paid 20% more than you needed and were happy to take he cut or you have shown less courage than those who have stood up for a decent wage.

Don’t misjudge your greed for others requirements, if you think bin-men live a Champaign lifestyle you are deluded

It makes me incredibly sad to see how easily people will turn on each other to try and save a buck. So many negative comments about people that clean the streets and empty the bins.
Suggestions that they should be grateful for the opportunity to serve? So you took a 20% pay cut to keep your job. So what, either that means that you got paid 20% more than you needed and were happy to take he cut or you have shown less courage than those who have stood up for a decent wage.
Don’t misjudge your greed for others requirements, if you think bin-men live a Champaign lifestyle you are deludedJesus_02

News Fanatic wrote:
Some people on this forum seem to forget that unions are there to defend their members, not to negotiate lower pay for them. You can hardly blame the unions for doing what they are being paid for. I do not know what the average pay of council workers is but I would not like to work in all weathers collecting stinking rubbish. It is one thing for those on £100,000pa to accept a percentage pay cut and totally different for someone on £20,000. Those on £100k still have a decent income.

Here's a shocker for you - thousands of people everyday work outside in all weathers.

Collect bin by handle --> Wheel said bin to refuse truck --> position bin on forks --> press button --> when bin is emptied by the machine, wheel bin to original collection point (if you feel like it).

How hard can it be?

[quote][p][bold]News Fanatic[/bold] wrote:
Some people on this forum seem to forget that unions are there to defend their members, not to negotiate lower pay for them. You can hardly blame the unions for doing what they are being paid for. I do not know what the average pay of council workers is but I would not like to work in all weathers collecting stinking rubbish. It is one thing for those on £100,000pa to accept a percentage pay cut and totally different for someone on £20,000. Those on £100k still have a decent income.[/p][/quote]Here's a shocker for you - thousands of people everyday work outside in all weathers.
Collect bin by handle --> Wheel said bin to refuse truck --> position bin on forks --> press button --> when bin is emptied by the machine, wheel bin to original collection point (if you feel like it).
How hard can it be?Shoong

@condor man: if you sign anything under duress or misinformation it can be legally challenged. Think of anything that has been miss-sold i.e. payment protection for loans, dodgy electricity sales people. That's the kind of character that is leading the council these days!

@condor man: if you sign anything under duress or misinformation it can be legally challenged. Think of anything that has been miss-sold i.e. payment protection for loans, dodgy electricity sales people. That's the kind of character that is leading the council these days!Jesus_02

Jesus_02 wrote:
It makes me incredibly sad to see how easily people will turn on each other to try and save a buck. So many negative comments about people that clean the streets and empty the bins. Suggestions that they should be grateful for the opportunity to serve? So you took a 20% pay cut to keep your job. So what, either that means that you got paid 20% more than you needed and were happy to take he cut or you have shown less courage than those who have stood up for a decent wage. Don’t misjudge your greed for others requirements, if you think bin-men live a Champaign lifestyle you are deluded

Totally agree.

Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.

Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.

These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!

The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!

[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote:
It makes me incredibly sad to see how easily people will turn on each other to try and save a buck. So many negative comments about people that clean the streets and empty the bins. Suggestions that they should be grateful for the opportunity to serve? So you took a 20% pay cut to keep your job. So what, either that means that you got paid 20% more than you needed and were happy to take he cut or you have shown less courage than those who have stood up for a decent wage. Don’t misjudge your greed for others requirements, if you think bin-men live a Champaign lifestyle you are deluded[/p][/quote]Totally agree.
Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.
Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.
These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!
The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!The Rising Phoenix

Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.

Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.

These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!

The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!

Totally agree.
Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.
Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.
These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!
The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!The Rising Phoenix

Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.

Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.

These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!

The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!

Shame you weren't so vociferous with your comments when Labour was in power!
>
They left us with a rising debt of £1000, all but £76Billion was down to government spending!
>
Even the Scots are complaining that "Westminster" was a 1/2 Trillion in debt before the global financial crisis! They want to know why they are suffering from Labour's incompetence!!

[quote][p][bold]The Rising Phoenix[/bold] wrote:
Totally agree.
Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.
Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.
These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!
The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society![/p][/quote]Shame you weren't so vociferous with your comments when Labour was in power!
>
They left us with a rising debt of £1000, all but £76Billion was down to government spending!
>
Even the Scots are complaining that "Westminster" was a 1/2 Trillion in debt before the global financial crisis! They want to know why they are suffering from Labour's incompetence!!George4th

The Rising Phoenix wrote: Totally agree. Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side. Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs. These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels! The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!

Shame you weren't so vociferous with your comments when Labour was in power! &gt; They left us with a rising debt of £1000, all but £76Billion was down to government spending! &gt; Even the Scots are complaining that &quot;Westminster" was a 1/2 Trillion in debt before the global financial crisis! They want to know why they are suffering from Labour's incompetence!!

Did i say it was all the tories fault? NO! so please dont try and put words in my mouth!

All the parties are detached from reality!

Labour were supposed to come from working background roots, thats not reality anymore, and the tories have always wanted to screw over the little guy, and the lib dems, well they've done more damage to themselves than anyone else could thanks to becoming the tories Biatch!

The truth of the matter is the politicians of today have no idea what it is like to be a the bottom of the stack! And how hard it is to get out from the bottom when brain dead politicains keep pulling the ground out from beneath you!

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Rising Phoenix[/bold] wrote: Totally agree. Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side. Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs. These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels! The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society![/p][/quote]Shame you weren't so vociferous with your comments when Labour was in power! > They left us with a rising debt of £1000, all but £76Billion was down to government spending! > Even the Scots are complaining that "Westminster" was a 1/2 Trillion in debt before the global financial crisis! They want to know why they are suffering from Labour's incompetence!![/p][/quote]Did i say it was all the tories fault? NO! so please dont try and put words in my mouth!
All the parties are detached from reality!
Labour were supposed to come from working background roots, thats not reality anymore, and the tories have always wanted to screw over the little guy, and the lib dems, well they've done more damage to themselves than anyone else could thanks to becoming the tories Biatch!
The truth of the matter is the politicians of today have no idea what it is like to be a the bottom of the stack! And how hard it is to get out from the bottom when brain dead politicains keep pulling the ground out from beneath you!The Rising Phoenix

Okay - so if the Unions win their Court case......how many 'workers' are going to have to take a pay-cut or redundancy to pay for the compensation ?

Whatever happens it will cost us, the Taxpayer, a fortune in legal fees. Hopefully another paycut will be used to cover these fees.

Well one the Council for standing up to these ingrates.

Okay - so if the Unions win their Court case......how many 'workers' are going to have to take a pay-cut or redundancy to pay for the compensation ?
Whatever happens it will cost us, the Taxpayer, a fortune in legal fees. Hopefully another paycut will be used to cover these fees.
Well one the Council for standing up to these ingrates.Keith Oftergrass

Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Okay - so if the Unions win their Court case......how many 'workers' are going to have to take a pay-cut or redundancy to pay for the compensation ? Whatever happens it will cost us, the Taxpayer, a fortune in legal fees. Hopefully another paycut will be used to cover these fees. Well one the Council for standing up to these ingrates.

And here we have a spineless brit, we shall call him exhibit A!

[quote][p][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
Okay - so if the Unions win their Court case......how many 'workers' are going to have to take a pay-cut or redundancy to pay for the compensation ? Whatever happens it will cost us, the Taxpayer, a fortune in legal fees. Hopefully another paycut will be used to cover these fees. Well one the Council for standing up to these ingrates.[/p][/quote]And here we have a spineless brit, we shall call him exhibit A!The Rising Phoenix

loosehead wrote:
Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members

You haven't been paying attention, industrial action has stopped, what we have now is workers doing exactly what their contracts say, nothing more nothing less.

Have you been paying attention? the unions stated that industrial action would restart in September how many days away? Just remember the unions were defeated in a vote by their own members.Also if your going to win why allow the other side to build up a defence as by giving the council extra time that would be the logical point of view? Or is it the council are making such a watertight argument that the court cases will be thrown out of court either way why are the unions giving them extra time? I personally would object to that request &amp; take them on when they're not ready.If the unions win &amp; this council have to revise the redundancy figures who actually wins? The unions are suppose to be there to protect jobs even if it's at the cost of lower wages just ask the German Unions so no the unions are not there just to protect pay

The lawyers on both sides are the only winners, the unions I feel can afford to lose, the council I fear cannot.

The unions recommended to the workers to return to work, but only working to rule, in September (if there is a strike) it can only be an unofficial strike (I may be wrong) which would damage the case altogether.

I would too challenge the council on all fronts, this and the other case are what the local authorities up and down are watching, if SCC win other local authorities will follow Southampton's lead.

[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
Well lemmings on the move then.If the council aren't correct how many more workers will have to lose their jobs? if the council win will the industrial action stop? I hope all communications on the subject by the unions are shown in court then it will be egg in the face for 500 union members[/p][/quote]You haven't been paying attention, industrial action has stopped, what we have now is workers doing exactly what their contracts say, nothing more nothing less.[/p][/quote]Have you been paying attention? the unions stated that industrial action would restart in September how many days away? Just remember the unions were defeated in a vote by their own members.Also if your going to win why allow the other side to build up a defence as by giving the council extra time that would be the logical point of view? Or is it the council are making such a watertight argument that the court cases will be thrown out of court either way why are the unions giving them extra time? I personally would object to that request & take them on when they're not ready.If the unions win & this council have to revise the redundancy figures who actually wins? The unions are suppose to be there to protect jobs even if it's at the cost of lower wages just ask the German Unions so no the unions are not there just to protect pay[/p][/quote]The lawyers on both sides are the only winners, the unions I feel can afford to lose, the council I fear cannot.
The unions recommended to the workers to return to work, but only working to rule, in September (if there is a strike) it can only be an unofficial strike (I may be wrong) which would damage the case altogether.
I would too challenge the council on all fronts, this and the other case are what the local authorities up and down are watching, if SCC win other local authorities will follow Southampton's lead.My View From Here

Emma Goldman wrote:
And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.

[quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote:
And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.StEmmosfire

"The unions recommended to the workers to return to work, but only working to rule" There you go! Working to rule doesnt break any rules or illegal! They havent got a case at all. Unions are a dying bread that ahve no place in this limate and are only fighting to so create an existance. The bloke who runs it deosnt care on his £200k salary!

"The unions recommended to the workers to return to work, but only working to rule" There you go! Working to rule doesnt break any rules or illegal! They havent got a case at all. Unions are a dying bread that ahve no place in this limate and are only fighting to so create an existance. The bloke who runs it deosnt care on his £200k salary!ChrisWilkins

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

What councillors do you know?

Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them.

Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon!

[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]What councillors do you know?
Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them.
Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon!The Rising Phoenix

Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them.

Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon!

What councillors do you know?
Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them.
Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon!The Rising Phoenix

Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.

Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.

These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!

The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!

'Provide' is the wrong word to use I feel. It gives the impression they are doing it for Southampton.

They are 'employed' so do it for the money.

[quote][p][bold]The Rising Phoenix[/bold] wrote:
Totally agree.
Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side.
Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs.
These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels!
The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society![/p][/quote]'Provide' is the wrong word to use I feel. It gives the impression they are doing it for Southampton.
They are 'employed' so do it for the money.Shoong

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

So much for the "there is no money" argument & the "we are all in this together" line then!

[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]So much for the "there is no money" argument & the "we are all in this together" line then!Emma Goldman

ChrisWilkins wrote:
Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.

Good shout, I wished I had been offered a pay cut twice in a year....... but NO it was... see you later can't afford to keep you....

[quote][p][bold]ChrisWilkins[/bold] wrote:
Great way to win support! NOT, Get over it, get back to work and be greatful you have a job. I took a 20% pay cut to keep my job. Yet again the unions screw something else up, you really think SCC lawyers havent looked at the implications? This will cost the union not SCC.[/p][/quote]Good shout, I wished I had been offered a pay cut twice in a year....... but NO it was... see you later can't afford to keep you....BigD69

Lets hurry up and get the legal action under-way.
The Unions lose - then they go go on strike again and can be sacked
The Unions win- the council will have to find the money somewhere else so can make 100's may-be 1000's redundant and outsource jobs to the private sector. to save that money.
Then if the workers lose their jobs they will have no-one to blame but the Unions !!!

Lets hurry up and get the legal action under-way.
The Unions lose - then they go go on strike again and can be sacked
The Unions win- the council will have to find the money somewhere else so can make 100's may-be 1000's redundant and outsource jobs to the private sector. to save that money.
Then if the workers lose their jobs they will have no-one to blame but the Unions !!!THEKILLER

When I pay for a service and it’s not delivered as expected I complain to the person that has taken my money. The bin men have been UNPAID for 12 weeks. The council have taken our council tax and we haven’t received a service, the fact that so many people blame the binmen is just mad.

BTW I don’t really care for Party Politics, the Conservatives wanted responsibility they have it, they should get on with it instead of blaming Labour, Blaming the bin-men basically blaming anyone they can.

When I pay for a service and it’s not delivered as expected I complain to the person that has taken my money. The bin men have been UNPAID for 12 weeks. The council have taken our council tax and we haven’t received a service, the fact that so many people blame the binmen is just mad.
BTW I don’t really care for Party Politics, the Conservatives wanted responsibility they have it, they should get on with it instead of blaming Labour, Blaming the bin-men basically blaming anyone they can.Jesus_02

Well, the binmen are back at work but not collecting bins on their due ddates. The office staff are so fed up they cannot even be bothered to give you a clue when the bins will actually be emptied.

Sorry but if anybody wants my support I want my bins emptied in the right order on the right days starting NOW!.

It will be the Council taxpayers who will end up paying. A rather misguided poster suggested somebody was "spineless" because they didn't support the workers who were standing up for their rights. Well, sorry but what about the taxpayers rights. I am paying for services I am not receiving. Next year I will be paying more, thanks to this dispute, for an almost certainly reduced service next year. Are the striking workers going to stand up for me - umm, no. Are the Unions going to stand up for me - umm, NO. Are the council going to give a monkeys - um, no. So why should I support workers who are going to cost me more of my hard earned money and are not providing the services I should be receiving even though they are not on strike.

Well, the binmen are back at work but not collecting bins on their due ddates. The office staff are so fed up they cannot even be bothered to give you a clue when the bins will actually be emptied.
Sorry but if anybody wants my support I want my bins emptied in the right order on the right days starting NOW!.
It will be the Council taxpayers who will end up paying. A rather misguided poster suggested somebody was "spineless" because they didn't support the workers who were standing up for their rights. Well, sorry but what about the taxpayers rights. I am paying for services I am not receiving. Next year I will be paying more, thanks to this dispute, for an almost certainly reduced service next year. Are the striking workers going to stand up for me - umm, no. Are the Unions going to stand up for me - umm, NO. Are the council going to give a monkeys - um, no. So why should I support workers who are going to cost me more of my hard earned money and are not providing the services I should be receiving even though they are not on strike.tootle

Why don't the council chiefs do the honourable thing and resign, this would show that they prepared to lead by example to save the council money. Of course they would never think of self-sacrifice, they are like all those who stood before them, greedy self-centred politicians, out for their own ends and self-glorification.

Why don't the council chiefs do the honourable thing and resign, this would show that they prepared to lead by example to save the council money. Of course they would never think of self-sacrifice, they are like all those who stood before them, greedy self-centred politicians, out for their own ends and self-glorification.rightway

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

What councillors do you know? Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them. Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon!

Why dont you become a Councillor?

[quote][p][bold]The Rising Phoenix[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]What councillors do you know? Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them. Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon![/p][/quote]Why dont you become a Councillor?StEmmosfire

Jesus_02 wrote: It makes me incredibly sad to see how easily people will turn on each other to try and save a buck. So many negative comments about people that clean the streets and empty the bins. Suggestions that they should be grateful for the opportunity to serve? So you took a 20% pay cut to keep your job. So what, either that means that you got paid 20% more than you needed and were happy to take he cut or you have shown less courage than those who have stood up for a decent wage. Don’t misjudge your greed for others requirements, if you think bin-men live a Champaign lifestyle you are deluded

Totally agree. Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side. Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs. These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels! The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society!

Totally agree, some sense at last! I see the cllrs are shortly to vote themselves large allowance increases, now there's a surprise!!!! Cut the 'real' workers pay to give themselves a large bonus, that's what I call all sharing the financial hardship!

[quote][p][bold]The Rising Phoenix[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: It makes me incredibly sad to see how easily people will turn on each other to try and save a buck. So many negative comments about people that clean the streets and empty the bins. Suggestions that they should be grateful for the opportunity to serve? So you took a 20% pay cut to keep your job. So what, either that means that you got paid 20% more than you needed and were happy to take he cut or you have shown less courage than those who have stood up for a decent wage. Don’t misjudge your greed for others requirements, if you think bin-men live a Champaign lifestyle you are deluded[/p][/quote]Totally agree. Lets attack those who provide services to all of southampton whilst the corrupt politicians attack from the other side. Sad to see England has turned into a bunch of spineless lapdogs. These workers are standing up for their rights, if everyone just roled over and did whatever the top dogs and fat cats wanted there would only be a few people whos careers would progress. I dont see David Cameron taking a SUBSTANTIAL paycut, nor the cheif executive or bully boy royston for that matter! A paycut to those boys is a mere drop in a large ocean, but for some frontline workers its the difference between supporting themselves, or falling into poverty especially at a time when everything is being raised in price including essential fuels! The government have no clue, they are too far detached from regular society![/p][/quote]Totally agree, some sense at last! I see the cllrs are shortly to vote themselves large allowance increases, now there's a surprise!!!! Cut the 'real' workers pay to give themselves a large bonus, that's what I call all sharing the financial hardship!fishfinger29

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

What councillors do you know? Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them. Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon!

Why dont you become a Councillor?

That would require a basic understanding of economics so that's a no go-er.

[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Rising Phoenix[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]What councillors do you know? Councillors are suppose to be the voice of the people, instead they try to score political brownie points by abusing the very issue you raised with them. Hard working? thats laughable I am yet to meet a hard working councillor (and i've met many councilllors) perhaps they will turn up on a unicorn when the four horsemen ride over the horizon![/p][/quote]Why dont you become a Councillor?[/p][/quote]That would require a basic understanding of economics so that's a no go-er.Shoong

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

So much for the "there is no money" argument &amp; the "we are all in this together" line then!

Well they are, I expect they aren’t getting as much as they could be paid. You don’t expect them to be on the same wages though do you! It's a highly stressed, important and responsible job being a Councilor.

[quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]So much for the "there is no money" argument & the "we are all in this together" line then![/p][/quote]Well they are, I expect they aren’t getting as much as they could be paid. You don’t expect them to be on the same wages though do you! It's a highly stressed, important and responsible job being a Councilor.StEmmosfire

I respect that you have a large degree of resentment that you have been made unemployed (so have I). I hope for your sake that you have found new jobs, or the people with which you have sided will have undoubtedly be suggesting that you are made to clean he street for your “benefits”

St Elmo’s Fire,

I am assuming that you are a WIM as I refuse to believe that anyone that has the ability to write can hold such illiterate view’s

@Tootle: I agree you shouldn’t be asked to support anyone and you should be angry, and you should be angry at those that take your money and fail to deliver

Bigd69
ChrisWilkins
The Killer
I respect that you have a large degree of resentment that you have been made unemployed (so have I). I hope for your sake that you have found new jobs, or the people with which you have sided will have undoubtedly be suggesting that you are made to clean he street for your “benefits”
St Elmo’s Fire,
I am assuming that you are a WIM as I refuse to believe that anyone that has the ability to write can hold such illiterate view’s
@Tootle: I agree you shouldn’t be asked to support anyone and you should be angry, and you should be angry at those that take your money and fail to deliverJesus_02

What on earth are these union idiots thinking is going to happen? SCC has had to make some tough choices and save a lot of money and down it in the fairest way possible. By following this course of action is going to put the council under even more strain and probably end up costing jobs... But wait... Isn't that what these union idiots were trying to prevent?

Just another case of "oh claim compo" no one stands up for proper causes anymore. If they did they wouldn't be stamping their feet over taking a small pay cut. At least they have jobs. At least they can work! These strikers should be grateful for what they have.

What on earth are these union idiots thinking is going to happen? SCC has had to make some tough choices and save a lot of money and down it in the fairest way possible. By following this course of action is going to put the council under even more strain and probably end up costing jobs... But wait... Isn't that what these union idiots were trying to prevent?
Just another case of "oh claim compo" no one stands up for proper causes anymore. If they did they wouldn't be stamping their feet over taking a small pay cut. At least they have jobs. At least they can work! These strikers should be grateful for what they have.hutchywife

May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute.
The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner.
>
They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!).
>
In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute.
The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner.
>
They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!).
>
In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!George4th

May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute.
The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner.
>
They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!).
>
In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute.
The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner.
>
They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!).
>
In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!George4th

George4th wrote:
May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute.
The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner.
&gt;
They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!).
&gt;
In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

The Labour party, are you having giraffe?

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute.
The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner.
>
They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!).
>
In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc![/p][/quote]The Labour party, are you having giraffe?My View From Here

George4th wrote:
May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. &gt; They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). &gt; In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

(Speaking as a Conservative).
.
To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy.
.
Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery.
.
The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending).
.
And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. > They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). > In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc![/p][/quote](Speaking as a Conservative).
.
To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy.
.
Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery.
.
The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending).
.
And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.The Watcher

Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Okay - so if the Unions win their Court case......how many 'workers' are going to have to take a pay-cut or redundancy to pay for the compensation ? Whatever happens it will cost us, the Taxpayer, a fortune in legal fees. Hopefully another paycut will be used to cover these fees. Well one the Council for standing up to these ingrates.

If (and it is an IF) the workers win their case then some at the Council (both Councillors and Executives) will have to answer your question.
.
Certainly Southampton taxpayers shouldn't be made to foot the bill if it is proved that those in charge were incompetent.
.
I don't think we should be questioning whether people are entitled to justice just because we might not like the cost of the outcome. That's so Un-British.

[quote][p][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
Okay - so if the Unions win their Court case......how many 'workers' are going to have to take a pay-cut or redundancy to pay for the compensation ? Whatever happens it will cost us, the Taxpayer, a fortune in legal fees. Hopefully another paycut will be used to cover these fees. Well one the Council for standing up to these ingrates.[/p][/quote]If (and it is an IF) the workers win their case then some at the Council (both Councillors and Executives) will have to answer your question.
.
Certainly Southampton taxpayers shouldn't be made to foot the bill if it is proved that those in charge were incompetent.
.
I don't think we should be questioning whether people are entitled to justice just because we might not like the cost of the outcome. That's so Un-British.The Watcher

Jesus_02 wrote:
Bigd69 ChrisWilkins The Killer I respect that you have a large degree of resentment that you have been made unemployed (so have I). I hope for your sake that you have found new jobs, or the people with which you have sided will have undoubtedly be suggesting that you are made to clean he street for your “benefits” St Elmo’s Fire, I am assuming that you are a WIM as I refuse to believe that anyone that has the ability to write can hold such illiterate view’s @Tootle: I agree you shouldn’t be asked to support anyone and you should be angry, and you should be angry at those that take your money and fail to deliver

What on Earth is a WIM? And what "the Hell" (get it Jesus and that!) is an illiterate view?
.
:-S

[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote:
Bigd69 ChrisWilkins The Killer I respect that you have a large degree of resentment that you have been made unemployed (so have I). I hope for your sake that you have found new jobs, or the people with which you have sided will have undoubtedly be suggesting that you are made to clean he street for your “benefits” St Elmo’s Fire, I am assuming that you are a WIM as I refuse to believe that anyone that has the ability to write can hold such illiterate view’s @Tootle: I agree you shouldn’t be asked to support anyone and you should be angry, and you should be angry at those that take your money and fail to deliver[/p][/quote]What on Earth is a WIM? And what "the Hell" (get it Jesus and that!) is an illiterate view?
.
:-SStEmmosfire

George4th wrote:
May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. &gt; They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). &gt; In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

(Speaking as a Conservative).
.
To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy.
.
Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery.
.
The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending).
.
And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.

We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating.
>
For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending.
>
Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)

[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. > They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). > In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc![/p][/quote](Speaking as a Conservative).
.
To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy.
.
Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery.
.
The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending).
.
And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.[/p][/quote]We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating.
>
For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending.
>
Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)George4th

hutchywife wrote:
What on earth are these union idiots thinking is going to happen? SCC has had to make some tough choices and save a lot of money and down it in the fairest way possible. By following this course of action is going to put the council under even more strain and probably end up costing jobs... But wait... Isn't that what these union idiots were trying to prevent? Just another case of &quot;oh claim compo" no one stands up for proper causes anymore. If they did they wouldn't be stamping their feet over taking a small pay cut. At least they have jobs. At least they can work! These strikers should be grateful for what they have.

Could you please enlighten us all by giving an example of a proper cause? I’m one of those who think that fighting to keep your job to pay your mortgage, put food on your table, clothe your children and try to give them a decent standard of living so they in turn can grow to be productive members of society is a proper cause.

[quote][p][bold]hutchywife[/bold] wrote:
What on earth are these union idiots thinking is going to happen? SCC has had to make some tough choices and save a lot of money and down it in the fairest way possible. By following this course of action is going to put the council under even more strain and probably end up costing jobs... But wait... Isn't that what these union idiots were trying to prevent? Just another case of "oh claim compo" no one stands up for proper causes anymore. If they did they wouldn't be stamping their feet over taking a small pay cut. At least they have jobs. At least they can work! These strikers should be grateful for what they have.[/p][/quote]Could you please enlighten us all by giving an example of a proper cause? I’m one of those who think that fighting to keep your job to pay your mortgage, put food on your table, clothe your children and try to give them a decent standard of living so they in turn can grow to be productive members of society is a proper cause.rightway

Most of the binmen and other council workers probably don't remember the problems in the docks in the 80s, or indeed the miners battle at the same time. The miners were almost annihilated by the government, the dockers had most of the conditions that they had fought for over many years taken away from them too. Both groups took on the employers, and the government and lost. Thousands left the industry, albeit with generous severance or redundancy. Don't think that anything has changed. It could happen to you and the difference in 2011 as opposed to 1984 is that jobs are extremely scarce now. Take what you have been offered by the council or you will be in deep trouble.

Most of the binmen and other council workers probably don't remember the problems in the docks in the 80s, or indeed the miners battle at the same time. The miners were almost annihilated by the government, the dockers had most of the conditions that they had fought for over many years taken away from them too. Both groups took on the employers, and the government and lost. Thousands left the industry, albeit with generous severance or redundancy. Don't think that anything has changed. It could happen to you and the difference in 2011 as opposed to 1984 is that jobs are extremely scarce now. Take what you have been offered by the council or you will be in deep trouble.Nearly an OAP

THE FABIANS are at work here. And I expect most of you wont have a clue what I'm on about. The 8th September will see a 10% increase in allowance's Last council emploee paid off with redundancy £110K up front 3K a month pension SANCTIONED. Next one 100K plus up front again. Expense's claimed July and August through pay roll chief and not normal route WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You all bicker and miss the bigger picture!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

THE FABIANS are at work here. And I expect most of you wont have a clue what I'm on about. The 8th September will see a 10% increase in allowance's Last council emploee paid off with redundancy £110K up front 3K a month pension SANCTIONED. Next one 100K plus up front again. Expense's claimed July and August through pay roll chief and not normal route WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You all bicker and miss the bigger picture!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!ohmywell

Nearly an OAP wrote:
Most of the binmen and other council workers probably don't remember the problems in the docks in the 80s, or indeed the miners battle at the same time. The miners were almost annihilated by the government, the dockers had most of the conditions that they had fought for over many years taken away from them too. Both groups took on the employers, and the government and lost. Thousands left the industry, albeit with generous severance or redundancy. Don't think that anything has changed. It could happen to you and the difference in 2011 as opposed to 1984 is that jobs are extremely scarce now. Take what you have been offered by the council or you will be in deep trouble.

That sounds more like a veiled threat than positive advice. Only people that are not under threat would write this nonsense.

[quote][p][bold]Nearly an OAP[/bold] wrote:
Most of the binmen and other council workers probably don't remember the problems in the docks in the 80s, or indeed the miners battle at the same time. The miners were almost annihilated by the government, the dockers had most of the conditions that they had fought for over many years taken away from them too. Both groups took on the employers, and the government and lost. Thousands left the industry, albeit with generous severance or redundancy. Don't think that anything has changed. It could happen to you and the difference in 2011 as opposed to 1984 is that jobs are extremely scarce now. Take what you have been offered by the council or you will be in deep trouble.[/p][/quote]That sounds more like a veiled threat than positive advice. Only people that are not under threat would write this nonsense.OSPREYSAINT

Where is Southy when you want him?
His opinions on all things union and political are wonderful to read and so accurate we wait with baited breath for his erudite ramblings.
Or is he holidaying in N Korea as we speak?

Where is Southy when you want him?
His opinions on all things union and political are wonderful to read and so accurate we wait with baited breath for his erudite ramblings.
Or is he holidaying in N Korea as we speak?geoff51

Where is Southy when you want him?
His opinions on all things union and political are wonderful to read and so accurate we wait with baited breath for his erudite ramblings.
Or is he holidaying in N Korea as we speak?

Where is Southy when you want him?
His opinions on all things union and political are wonderful to read and so accurate we wait with baited breath for his erudite ramblings.
Or is he holidaying in N Korea as we speak?geoff51

OSPREYSAINT thinks that my post was a veiled threat. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was a docker at the time of the docks and miners strikes, and, believe me it was war against the workers from the employers and, surprise, surprise, a Conservative government which we have again. I saw many dockers leave the industry because of the troubles and I consider this could again happen to workers who take on their employers in the current economic climate. Better to have a job at the moment on slightly lower pay than none at all and Jobseekers Allowance. There are many workers, both English and foreign who will gladly take your jobs for less pay. This industrial dispute has gone on for too long and I feel will end in tears for the unions.

OSPREYSAINT thinks that my post was a veiled threat. Nothing could be further from the truth. I was a docker at the time of the docks and miners strikes, and, believe me it was war against the workers from the employers and, surprise, surprise, a Conservative government which we have again. I saw many dockers leave the industry because of the troubles and I consider this could again happen to workers who take on their employers in the current economic climate. Better to have a job at the moment on slightly lower pay than none at all and Jobseekers Allowance. There are many workers, both English and foreign who will gladly take your jobs for less pay. This industrial dispute has gone on for too long and I feel will end in tears for the unions.Nearly an OAP

George4th wrote: May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. &gt; They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). &gt; In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

(Speaking as a Conservative). . To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy. . Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery. . The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending). . And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.

We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating. &gt; For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending. &gt; Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)

We are nowhere near the same position as the countries you mention.
.
You are either ignorant of the comparisons or scoring cheap political points by making such ignorant comparisons.
.
As with many countries, including the USA, we are in a tough position, but we should avoid a double dip recession and work our way out it.
.
Claiming our economy and debt is in a similar state as Greece, Ireland and/or Portugal is ignorant in the extreme and potentially damaging to this great country.

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. > They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). > In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc![/p][/quote](Speaking as a Conservative). . To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy. . Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery. . The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending). . And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.[/p][/quote]We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating. > For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending. > Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)[/p][/quote]We are nowhere near the same position as the countries you mention.
.
You are either ignorant of the comparisons or scoring cheap political points by making such ignorant comparisons.
.
As with many countries, including the USA, we are in a tough position, but we should avoid a double dip recession and work our way out it.
.
Claiming our economy and debt is in a similar state as Greece, Ireland and/or Portugal is ignorant in the extreme and potentially damaging to this great country.The Watcher

George4th wrote: May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. &gt; They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). &gt; In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

(Speaking as a Conservative). . To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy. . Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery. . The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending). . And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.

We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating. &gt; For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending. &gt; Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)

PS Your ignorance is highlighted by your quoted figure of £76bn relating to bailing out the banks.
.
The National Audit Office reported in 2009 that the cost of the bank bail out was £850bn and that the eventual cost to taxpayers would not be known for many years.
.
The £76bn you mention is solely for the purchase of shares in Lloyds and RBS. You've forgotten Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Dunfermiline BS, guaranteeing wholesale borrowing to strengthen banks liquidity, imdemnifying the BOE etc etc etc.
.
The true cost of the bank bail out is massively more than your ignorant figure.
.
Feel free to refrain from joining in discussions and casting blame in a topic that you obviously know so little about.
.
If you don't know what the real problem is, then it is unlikely that you will come up with the real solution.

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. > They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). > In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc![/p][/quote](Speaking as a Conservative). . To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy. . Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery. . The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending). . And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.[/p][/quote]We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating. > For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending. > Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)[/p][/quote]PS Your ignorance is highlighted by your quoted figure of £76bn relating to bailing out the banks.
.
The National Audit Office reported in 2009 that the cost of the bank bail out was £850bn and that the eventual cost to taxpayers would not be known for many years.
.
The £76bn you mention is solely for the purchase of shares in Lloyds and RBS. You've forgotten Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Dunfermiline BS, guaranteeing wholesale borrowing to strengthen banks liquidity, imdemnifying the BOE etc etc etc.
.
The true cost of the bank bail out is massively more than your ignorant figure.
.
Feel free to refrain from joining in discussions and casting blame in a topic that you obviously know so little about.
.
If you don't know what the real problem is, then it is unlikely that you will come up with the real solution.The Watcher

Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?

Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?loosehead

George4th wrote: May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. &gt; They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). &gt; In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc!

(Speaking as a Conservative). . To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy. . Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery. . The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending). . And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.

We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating. &gt; For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending. &gt; Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)

PS Your ignorance is highlighted by your quoted figure of £76bn relating to bailing out the banks.
.
The National Audit Office reported in 2009 that the cost of the bank bail out was £850bn and that the eventual cost to taxpayers would not be known for many years.
.
The £76bn you mention is solely for the purchase of shares in Lloyds and RBS. You've forgotten Northern Rock, Bradford &amp; Bingley, Dunfermiline BS, guaranteeing wholesale borrowing to strengthen banks liquidity, imdemnifying the BOE etc etc etc.
.
The true cost of the bank bail out is massively more than your ignorant figure.
.
Feel free to refrain from joining in discussions and casting blame in a topic that you obviously know so little about.
.
If you don't know what the real problem is, then it is unlikely that you will come up with the real solution.

Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area.
>
We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned.
>
The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place.
>
As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has.
>
The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless!
>
The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!

[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: May I suggest that anyone in Southampton who pays Council tax puts in a claim to the Labour Party for compensation for non-service caused by this dispute. The root of the problem lies within the incompetence of the last government to govern in a sensible and prudent manner. > They left us with a debt of £1000 Billion and rising (only £76 Billion went to the banks and we will get it back!). > In case people STILL don't realise it, we are in the same boat as Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy etc![/p][/quote](Speaking as a Conservative). . To suggest that the root of the problem lies with the previous incumbents and that we are on a par with Greece, Ireland, Portugal etc, displays a rather ignorant outlook on the global financial crisis that has embraced every major economy. . Anyone with an ounce of sense understands that the root of the problem lay in the sub prime mortgage market in the US, the trading in debt by institutions and other financial chicanery. . The previous incumbents handled parts of the Global crisis quite well (QE and Brown's interventions), but handled others poorly (refusing to reign in spending). . And we are NOT in the same postion as some of the Eurozone countries you mention. We have our own problems, but let's not talk this great country down.[/p][/quote]We are in the same position as the countries I mentioned only you choose not to see it. The only reason we will BE in a better position than them is because we chose to cut costs quickly and deeply and so so retain our ability to borrow at cheap interest rates under our Triple A rating. > For the record, we were already £600 billion in debt, AND RISING, when the global financial crisis hit. The banks only borrowed £76 Billion BUT the government spending plans resulted in our debt spiralling out of control because the then Labour government were nor prepared to cut back on spending. > Vince Cable warned them in 2005 and 2006, as did many other people. We were simply spending TOO MUCH MONEY! (It was ideology gone mad!)[/p][/quote]PS Your ignorance is highlighted by your quoted figure of £76bn relating to bailing out the banks.
.
The National Audit Office reported in 2009 that the cost of the bank bail out was £850bn and that the eventual cost to taxpayers would not be known for many years.
.
The £76bn you mention is solely for the purchase of shares in Lloyds and RBS. You've forgotten Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, Dunfermiline BS, guaranteeing wholesale borrowing to strengthen banks liquidity, imdemnifying the BOE etc etc etc.
.
The true cost of the bank bail out is massively more than your ignorant figure.
.
Feel free to refrain from joining in discussions and casting blame in a topic that you obviously know so little about.
.
If you don't know what the real problem is, then it is unlikely that you will come up with the real solution.[/p][/quote]Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area.
>
We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned.
>
The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place.
>
As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has.
>
The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless!
>
The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!George4th

This is unbelevible if one of the guns wood of gone off they would of properly been kiled instantly . england is coming more like amerca every day.... i couldn;t really coment on teh rest of it becuse i did'nt read it as it was too long and felt like and i felt like i read enuff

This is unbelevible if one of the guns wood of gone off they would of properly been kiled instantly . england is coming more like amerca every day.... i couldn;t really coment on teh rest of it becuse i did'nt read it as it was too long and felt like and i felt like i read enuffDebHavard

Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area.
>
We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned.
>
The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place.
>
As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has.
>
The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless!
>
The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!

Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area.
>
We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned.
>
The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place.
>
As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has.
>
The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless!
>
The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!George4th

Just sack em' all and let them do what the hell they want......the average person on the street has no time for this cr@p anymore.

Sack the trash collectors, nope.....sack em all.

They have had us over a barrel for far too long now & it is a disgrace what they have done to our town :|

P45's, bwahahahahaha

sw - lazy gits

A boring boring council strike stuff again :D
Just sack em' all and let them do what the hell they want......the average person on the street has no time for this cr@p anymore.
Sack the trash collectors, nope.....sack em all.
They have had us over a barrel for far too long now & it is a disgrace what they have done to our town :|
P45's, bwahahahahaha
sw - lazy gitsSOULJACKER

George4th wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. &gt; We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. &gt; The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. &gt; As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. &gt; The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! &gt; The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!

"The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. > We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. > The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. > As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. > The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! > The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!![/p][/quote]"The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.The Watcher

George4th wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. &gt; We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. &gt; The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. &gt; As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. &gt; The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! &gt; The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!

&quot;The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.

Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt? The Unite & Unison & other public service sector unions don't seem to be able to see the trouble were in.Many public sector workers say were being picked on by a Tory government which it's not ( oh only if it was) Why aren't you hitting the don't want to be employed get them to work & you wont need to hit us is what they say.The unions have fought this dispute as an anti government dispute & not what it is a local council dispute.Now they're trying to justify the strikes by taking the council to court so dragging out the industrial dispute ( no sacking until legality of councils action proven) What ever happens if they win will be detrimental to the work force as if it stretches out to next May & labour win then there figures of 800 more redundancies than the Tories as they would have to include the court costs so what another 500-1,000 on top of there redundancy plans? who's the winners & who's the losers in these court cases? looks like the workers will lose either way.blind leading the blind

[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. > We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. > The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. > As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. > The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! > The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!![/p][/quote]"The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.[/p][/quote]Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt? The Unite & Unison & other public service sector unions don't seem to be able to see the trouble were in.Many public sector workers say were being picked on by a Tory government which it's not ( oh only if it was) Why aren't you hitting the don't want to be employed get them to work & you wont need to hit us is what they say.The unions have fought this dispute as an anti government dispute & not what it is a local council dispute.Now they're trying to justify the strikes by taking the council to court so dragging out the industrial dispute ( no sacking until legality of councils action proven) What ever happens if they win will be detrimental to the work force as if it stretches out to next May & labour win then there figures of 800 more redundancies than the Tories as they would have to include the court costs so what another 500-1,000 on top of there redundancy plans? who's the winners & who's the losers in these court cases? looks like the workers will lose either way.blind leading the blindloosehead

George4th wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. &gt; We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. &gt; The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. &gt; As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. &gt; The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! &gt; The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!

&quot;The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.

Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he &amp; his government were partly to blame for the crisis &amp; when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt? The Unite &amp; Unison &amp; other public service sector unions don't seem to be able to see the trouble were in.Many public sector workers say were being picked on by a Tory government which it's not ( oh only if it was) Why aren't you hitting the don't want to be employed get them to work &amp; you wont need to hit us is what they say.The unions have fought this dispute as an anti government dispute &amp; not what it is a local council dispute.Now they're trying to justify the strikes by taking the council to court so dragging out the industrial dispute ( no sacking until legality of councils action proven) What ever happens if they win will be detrimental to the work force as if it stretches out to next May &amp; labour win then there figures of 800 more redundancies than the Tories as they would have to include the court costs so what another 500-1,000 on top of there redundancy plans? who's the winners &amp; who's the losers in these court cases? looks like the workers will lose either way.blind leading the blind

Looshead. Can you show me evidence where "Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt?"
.
I am especially interested where the £1000 billion debt comes from. Who in the pub told you this?
Also can you tell us where GB influenced the USA banks to get into the toxic debt. Where is he to blame on this?
I am waiting Loosehead seeing you are such an "expert"!!

[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. > We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. > The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. > As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. > The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! > The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!![/p][/quote]"The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.[/p][/quote]Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt? The Unite & Unison & other public service sector unions don't seem to be able to see the trouble were in.Many public sector workers say were being picked on by a Tory government which it's not ( oh only if it was) Why aren't you hitting the don't want to be employed get them to work & you wont need to hit us is what they say.The unions have fought this dispute as an anti government dispute & not what it is a local council dispute.Now they're trying to justify the strikes by taking the council to court so dragging out the industrial dispute ( no sacking until legality of councils action proven) What ever happens if they win will be detrimental to the work force as if it stretches out to next May & labour win then there figures of 800 more redundancies than the Tories as they would have to include the court costs so what another 500-1,000 on top of there redundancy plans? who's the winners & who's the losers in these court cases? looks like the workers will lose either way.blind leading the blind[/p][/quote]Looshead. Can you show me evidence where "Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt?"
.
I am especially interested where the £1000 billion debt comes from. Who in the pub told you this?
Also can you tell us where GB influenced the USA banks to get into the toxic debt. Where is he to blame on this?
I am waiting Loosehead seeing you are such an "expert"!!Ant Smoking MP

George4th wrote:
How many Council workers live in Southampton and pay Council tax, especially those signing up to fight the council?!
&gt;
Council workers wake up! The Unions are out for their own ends and their own egos! THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!

Idiot!! Apparently the deputy leader of the council lives outside of Southampton. Does he live with them?

[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
How many Council workers live in Southampton and pay Council tax, especially those signing up to fight the council?!
>
Council workers wake up! The Unions are out for their own ends and their own egos! THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE![/p][/quote]Idiot!! Apparently the deputy leader of the council lives outside of Southampton. Does he live with them?Ant Smoking MP

loosehead wrote:
Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?

Can I call you LooseSouthyHead from now? You talk such B*ll&cks!!

[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?[/p][/quote]Can I call you LooseSouthyHead from now? You talk such B*ll&cks!!Ant Smoking MP

Condor Man wrote:
hang on, didn't 99.9% of the staff sign the new contracts? If they agreed the terms in writing I don't think there's a case to answer for.

They don't know how lucky they are. In the private sector, if we didn't sign contracts that changed our terms for the worse (eg total abolition of final salary scheme replaced by a not-particularly-goo
d money contribution from the company - all this 15-20 years ago when the private sector realised it couldn't afford final salary schemes) it was taken that we had signed the contracts anyway so a no-win situation. And anyone who made a fuss about it was out of the door quicker than you could say jack flash and, funnily enough, wasn't then able to get interviews for comparable work anywhere in the South!! I haven't seen much change since then; if anything, things have become much worse in the private sector with redundancy schemes rarely above the statutory minimum now.
About time these council workers put up, shut up and just got on with their jobs serving us instead of themselves all the time!! They've still got good jobs, the other option was redundancy, I can't believe they are still thinking they're hard done by! Hope they get dismissed and some of us who haven't been able to get work in the private sector for years can have a shot at the cushy public sector jobs with the great pay scales and brilliant pension schemes! Let them see what the real world is like and let the rest of us show what real efficiencies could be made in the public sector!

[quote][p][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
hang on, didn't 99.9% of the staff sign the new contracts? If they agreed the terms in writing I don't think there's a case to answer for.[/p][/quote]They don't know how lucky they are. In the private sector, if we didn't sign contracts that changed our terms for the worse (eg total abolition of final salary scheme replaced by a not-particularly-goo
d money contribution from the company - all this 15-20 years ago when the private sector realised it couldn't afford final salary schemes) it was taken that we had signed the contracts anyway so a no-win situation. And anyone who made a fuss about it was out of the door quicker than you could say jack flash and, funnily enough, wasn't then able to get interviews for comparable work anywhere in the South!! I haven't seen much change since then; if anything, things have become much worse in the private sector with redundancy schemes rarely above the statutory minimum now.
About time these council workers put up, shut up and just got on with their jobs serving us instead of themselves all the time!! They've still got good jobs, the other option was redundancy, I can't believe they are still thinking they're hard done by! Hope they get dismissed and some of us who haven't been able to get work in the private sector for years can have a shot at the cushy public sector jobs with the great pay scales and brilliant pension schemes! Let them see what the real world is like and let the rest of us show what real efficiencies could be made in the public sector!Poppy22

George4th wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. &gt; We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. &gt; The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. &gt; As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. &gt; The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! &gt; The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!!

&quot;The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.

Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he &amp; his government were partly to blame for the crisis &amp; when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt? The Unite &amp; Unison &amp; other public service sector unions don't seem to be able to see the trouble were in.Many public sector workers say were being picked on by a Tory government which it's not ( oh only if it was) Why aren't you hitting the don't want to be employed get them to work &amp; you wont need to hit us is what they say.The unions have fought this dispute as an anti government dispute &amp; not what it is a local council dispute.Now they're trying to justify the strikes by taking the council to court so dragging out the industrial dispute ( no sacking until legality of councils action proven) What ever happens if they win will be detrimental to the work force as if it stretches out to next May &amp; labour win then there figures of 800 more redundancies than the Tories as they would have to include the court costs so what another 500-1,000 on top of there redundancy plans? who's the winners &amp; who's the losers in these court cases? looks like the workers will lose either way.blind leading the blind

Looshead. Can you show me evidence where "Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he &amp; his government were partly to blame for the crisis &amp; when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt?"
.
I am especially interested where the £1000 billion debt comes from. Who in the pub told you this?
Also can you tell us where GB influenced the USA banks to get into the toxic debt. Where is he to blame on this?
I am waiting Loosehead seeing you are such an "expert"!!

I thought you were such a good Labour voter don't you keep up with what your parties saying? Gordan Brown Ed Balls David Milliband & Ed Milliband have all come out & accepted Labours part in the bank crisis so why don't you contact the shadow cabinet & they might give you all the statements as you know so much. If Brown hadn't taken the breaks off our banks they wouldn't have lent so heavily in America so the repercussions of the housing market crash wouldn't have effected us or not nearly as badly as it did.The £1,000billion debt came from your beloved parties spend spend spend attitude to stay in power & buy votes.Your such an arsehole I mentioned once I was drinking not been down the pub & your feeble arguments back at me are you been down the pub again.You aren't worth the dirt ion the bottom of my shoe

[quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]The Watcher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote:
Banks - You are mixing up borrowing and guarantee. My facts are in the ball park area. > We ARE in a similar position to the countries I mentioned. > The truth is that most people in this country still haven't woken up to the fact that the good times are long gone and a long period of austerity is taking its place. > As the cost of living increases and wages do not, the penny will drop - for some it already has. > The blame lies squarely with the last government for over spending and leaving us with certain ongoing commitments to keep spending! One example is their excessive use of PFIs - work the future cost of those PFIs - scares you witless! > The baby boomers are ok because they got the timing right, or more factually, their parents did!![/p][/quote]"The blame lies squarely with the last Government".
.
I only hope you really don't believe that, then again given your poor grasp of the economic situation I wouldn't be surprised.
.
As a Conservative I am more than willing to blame Labour for their many mistakes, including their overspending in many areas when things should have been reined in, but suggest they are wholly responsible is ridiculous posturing. It simply ignores the complexity of the situation.
.
Whilst Labour were complicit in the financial mess we now find ourselves in, the underlying factors were as a direct result of the global financial crisis and meltdown that has hit most economies around the world.
.
And as bad a Prime Minister as he was, Gordon Brown deserves some plaudits for his efforts in the early stages of the banking crisis and the global recession.[/p][/quote]Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt? The Unite & Unison & other public service sector unions don't seem to be able to see the trouble were in.Many public sector workers say were being picked on by a Tory government which it's not ( oh only if it was) Why aren't you hitting the don't want to be employed get them to work & you wont need to hit us is what they say.The unions have fought this dispute as an anti government dispute & not what it is a local council dispute.Now they're trying to justify the strikes by taking the council to court so dragging out the industrial dispute ( no sacking until legality of councils action proven) What ever happens if they win will be detrimental to the work force as if it stretches out to next May & labour win then there figures of 800 more redundancies than the Tories as they would have to include the court costs so what another 500-1,000 on top of there redundancy plans? who's the winners & who's the losers in these court cases? looks like the workers will lose either way.blind leading the blind[/p][/quote]Looshead. Can you show me evidence where "Is that the same Gordan Brown who admits he & his government were partly to blame for the crisis & when staring defeat in the polls went on a spending spree to get votes? you have to ask why we used £78billion to bail out the banks why are we in £1,000billion pounds of debt?"
.
I am especially interested where the £1000 billion debt comes from. Who in the pub told you this?
Also can you tell us where GB influenced the USA banks to get into the toxic debt. Where is he to blame on this?
I am waiting Loosehead seeing you are such an "expert"!![/p][/quote]I thought you were such a good Labour voter don't you keep up with what your parties saying? Gordan Brown Ed Balls David Milliband & Ed Milliband have all come out & accepted Labours part in the bank crisis so why don't you contact the shadow cabinet & they might give you all the statements as you know so much. If Brown hadn't taken the breaks off our banks they wouldn't have lent so heavily in America so the repercussions of the housing market crash wouldn't have effected us or not nearly as badly as it did.The £1,000billion debt came from your beloved parties spend spend spend attitude to stay in power & buy votes.Your such an arsehole I mentioned once I was drinking not been down the pub & your feeble arguments back at me are you been down the pub again.You aren't worth the dirt ion the bottom of my shoeloosehead

loosehead wrote:
Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?

Can I call you LooseSouthyHead from now? You talk such B*ll&amp;cks!!

Why don't you get your Girlie mag (maybe you prefer playgirl) & go & sit on the toilet & live your live in contentment & stop throwing insults at people who's point of view you have no answer for you pitiful excuse of a man

[quote][p][bold]Ant Smoking MP[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?[/p][/quote]Can I call you LooseSouthyHead from now? You talk such B*ll&cks!![/p][/quote]Why don't you get your Girlie mag (maybe you prefer playgirl) & go & sit on the toilet & live your live in contentment & stop throwing insults at people who's point of view you have no answer for you pitiful excuse of a manloosehead

I am genuinely bored by all this now. Strike / work to rule means nothing to the average resident.

The Unions have made themselves look stupid as most residents don't understand what a Union is. They just want the bins emptied.

I'm not quite sure what working to rule (or a go slow) will achieve for bin men. I assume they won't work overtime, whilst our bins are emptied every couple of weeks which is what us residents want anyway.

As for the tribunal, should the Unions win, then where will the money come from to pay for the compensation? How many jobs will go on top of what Labour suggested?

There are no winners here, everyone will lose, but the Unions will end up with egg on their face!

I am genuinely bored by all this now. Strike / work to rule means nothing to the average resident.
The Unions have made themselves look stupid as most residents don't understand what a Union is. They just want the bins emptied.
I'm not quite sure what working to rule (or a go slow) will achieve for bin men. I assume they won't work overtime, whilst our bins are emptied every couple of weeks which is what us residents want anyway.
As for the tribunal, should the Unions win, then where will the money come from to pay for the compensation? How many jobs will go on top of what Labour suggested?
There are no winners here, everyone will lose, but the Unions will end up with egg on their face!IronLady2010

Well, any form of industrial action, including the current work to rule is unprotected now the twelve week protection period has been passed.

So, the power is in council hands now to resolve this decisively.

Time to warn everyone that anyone currently engaging in any form of industrial action after the end of the week will be sacked. No more work to rule. The council should also change employment terms to ensure that working to rule means that the work still gets done. Time to scrap any remaining practices which can be exploited under a work to rule.

Well done to the council for standing up to the unions, but the time has come now for the council to take the action it is now entitled to.

Relationships have clearly irrevocably and completely broken down with a minority of the workforce, time to replace them if they choose to strike again.

Work to rule is industrial action short of strike.
Well, any form of industrial action, including the current work to rule is unprotected now the twelve week protection period has been passed.
So, the power is in council hands now to resolve this decisively.
Time to warn everyone that anyone currently engaging in any form of industrial action after the end of the week will be sacked. No more work to rule. The council should also change employment terms to ensure that working to rule means that the work still gets done. Time to scrap any remaining practices which can be exploited under a work to rule.
Well done to the council for standing up to the unions, but the time has come now for the council to take the action it is now entitled to.
Relationships have clearly irrevocably and completely broken down with a minority of the workforce, time to replace them if they choose to strike again.Sotonians_lets_pull_together

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:
Work to rule is industrial action short of strike.

Well, any form of industrial action, including the current work to rule is unprotected now the twelve week protection period has been passed.

So, the power is in council hands now to resolve this decisively.

Time to warn everyone that anyone currently engaging in any form of industrial action after the end of the week will be sacked. No more work to rule. The council should also change employment terms to ensure that working to rule means that the work still gets done. Time to scrap any remaining practices which can be exploited under a work to rule.

Well done to the council for standing up to the unions, but the time has come now for the council to take the action it is now entitled to.

Relationships have clearly irrevocably and completely broken down with a minority of the workforce, time to replace them if they choose to strike again.

you dont need protection to work to rule. It litteraly means is that you only do what is in your contract no more no less.

Sotonians lets pull TOGETHER? thats sounds a bit union-ey to me!

[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_
together[/bold] wrote:
Work to rule is industrial action short of strike.
Well, any form of industrial action, including the current work to rule is unprotected now the twelve week protection period has been passed.
So, the power is in council hands now to resolve this decisively.
Time to warn everyone that anyone currently engaging in any form of industrial action after the end of the week will be sacked. No more work to rule. The council should also change employment terms to ensure that working to rule means that the work still gets done. Time to scrap any remaining practices which can be exploited under a work to rule.
Well done to the council for standing up to the unions, but the time has come now for the council to take the action it is now entitled to.
Relationships have clearly irrevocably and completely broken down with a minority of the workforce, time to replace them if they choose to strike again.[/p][/quote]you dont need protection to work to rule. It litteraly means is that you only do what is in your contract no more no less.
Sotonians lets pull TOGETHER? thats sounds a bit union-ey to me!Jesus_02

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

So much for the "there is no money" argument &amp; the "we are all in this together" line then!

Well they are, I expect they aren’t getting as much as they could be paid. You don’t expect them to be on the same wages though do you! It's a highly stressed, important and responsible job being a Councilor.

You seem to forget that it is ALL council workers who were forced into a huge pay cut.. And that does include people who have, 'Highly stressed, important and responsible job(s)...' I'd like to see the average cllr deal with the situations that social workers or housing officers have to personally intervene with on a daily basis.

[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]So much for the "there is no money" argument & the "we are all in this together" line then![/p][/quote]Well they are, I expect they aren’t getting as much as they could be paid. You don’t expect them to be on the same wages though do you! It's a highly stressed, important and responsible job being a Councilor.[/p][/quote]You seem to forget that it is ALL council workers who were forced into a huge pay cut.. And that does include people who have, 'Highly stressed, important and responsible job(s)...' I'd like to see the average cllr deal with the situations that social workers or housing officers have to personally intervene with on a daily basis.Watcherfromtheeaves

Emma Goldman wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up!

Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this &quot;I deserve" culture.

So much for the "there is no money" argument &amp; the "we are all in this together" line then!

Well they are, I expect they aren’t getting as much as they could be paid. You don’t expect them to be on the same wages though do you! It's a highly stressed, important and responsible job being a Councilor.

You seem to forget that it is ALL council workers who were forced into a huge pay cut.. And that does include people who have, 'Highly stressed, important and responsible job(s)...' I'd like to see the average cllr deal with the situations that social workers or housing officers have to personally intervene with on a daily basis.

No it wasn't any one under £17,500 got a pay rise & not a pay cut

[quote][p][bold]Watcherfromtheeaves[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Emma Goldman[/bold] wrote: And while this goes on Southampton Councillors are set to vote on an INCREASE to their allowances on 8th September! You could not make it up![/p][/quote]Yes but Councilors are very important and well educated and hard working people. Difficult to find hard to replace, they deserve to be paid well. These militants are easily sourced and easily replaced. I’m fed up with this jealousy of people that work hard and are well educated. About time we put an end to this "I deserve" culture.[/p][/quote]So much for the "there is no money" argument & the "we are all in this together" line then![/p][/quote]Well they are, I expect they aren’t getting as much as they could be paid. You don’t expect them to be on the same wages though do you! It's a highly stressed, important and responsible job being a Councilor.[/p][/quote]You seem to forget that it is ALL council workers who were forced into a huge pay cut.. And that does include people who have, 'Highly stressed, important and responsible job(s)...' I'd like to see the average cllr deal with the situations that social workers or housing officers have to personally intervene with on a daily basis.[/p][/quote]No it wasn't any one under £17,500 got a pay rise & not a pay cutloosehead

loosehead wrote:
Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?

You spoke to a Councillor who spoke the truth? That is indeed a rare occurence, unless you are more gullible than I thought.....

[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
Spoke to a councillor who's very confident they will win the court cases with the unions own words.Have you lot never given enough rope to allow someone to hang themselves? seems to be exactly what the councils done.At least it will only be 800 redundancies when the council wins if by some travesty of justice they lose I think at least 200 more better start looking for jobs can't you just hear it Yes We Won but now we have no jobs hurray were the winners or are they?[/p][/quote]You spoke to a Councillor who spoke the truth? That is indeed a rare occurence, unless you are more gullible than I thought.....OSPREYSAINT

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
It's funny how things look compared to were you sit.

go ahead I've applied for a bin mans job let you know how I get on

If you get it, please let us know which round you are on, will make sure you get a decent tip at Christmas.

[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote:
It's funny how things look compared to were you sit.[/p][/quote]go ahead I've applied for a bin mans job let you know how I get on[/p][/quote]If you get it, please let us know which round you are on, will make sure you get a decent tip at Christmas.OSPREYSAINT

Be very careful, Liverpool fell into this situation in the 80's and we ended up with Militant in control of the city, A DISASTER OF ENORMOUS PROPORTIONS, which took almost three decades to resolve, loss of cruise business will be nothing by comparison. You've been warned.

Be very careful, Liverpool fell into this situation in the 80's and we ended up with Militant in control of the city, A DISASTER OF ENORMOUS PROPORTIONS, which took almost three decades to resolve, loss of cruise business will be nothing by comparison. You've been warned.Tom Liverpool

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
It's funny how things look compared to were you sit.

go ahead I've applied for a bin mans job let you know how I get on

If you get it, please let us know which round you are on, will make sure you get a decent tip at Christmas.

Osprey is that a threat? I will if i get offered the job do my utmost to take all the rubbish away ( not tv's) if there's plastic bags once the bins been emptied I would put the bags in it & get it emptied,if it means I have to walk faster then so be it.where/what area do you live in?

[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote:
It's funny how things look compared to were you sit.[/p][/quote]go ahead I've applied for a bin mans job let you know how I get on[/p][/quote]If you get it, please let us know which round you are on, will make sure you get a decent tip at Christmas.[/p][/quote]Osprey is that a threat? I will if i get offered the job do my utmost to take all the rubbish away ( not tv's) if there's plastic bags once the bins been emptied I would put the bags in it & get it emptied,if it means I have to walk faster then so be it.where/what area do you live in?loosehead