This is not quite right or it wasn’t. I’m in the North Bay and earlier this year I added a new Premier and it was a nightmare. Things may have changed but…

You get one set top box included with your Comcast account. If you don’t want it or need it you can get the first cable card free as you are already paying for it.

The second card is at $1.50 only if it is used in the same device. I was able to add two cards this way as they thought it was for one TiVo when I first set them up a few years back.

More cards for more devices are at a higher rate. The FCC rules are not that hard to follow. They even suggest a price of around $4 or so but Comcast chooses to break them.

They are required to list the price of a cable card. They do not. The only mention of this was the $1.50 for the second card IN THE SAME DEVICE. They did not show what they charge for just another cable card.

They are not allowed to up sell or otherwise require you to buy anything else or charge for installation or activation. But Comcast forces you to pay for a cable box bundle including an outlet charge and they then give you a dollar or two back for providing your own equipment. This is again breaks the FCC rules. What are you giving me a $2.50 credit for if you are not forcing me to buy something other than the card?

You can look them up and file a complaint on the FCC website. I got a call from some upset Comcast guy sometime later and he just kept telling me that they were not breaking any rules and when I read him the rules and he just would not admit to it. But they did cut my bill in half for six months.

Also, I was able to remove the HD fee and did not lose any HD channels. The down side is that when I had an issue with two of the channels not coming in randomly they kept trying to tell me that I needed that on my account and that was why the two channels would randomly go out for hours at a time.

This is not quite right or it wasn’t. I’m in the North Bay and earlier this year I added a new Premier and it was a nightmare. Things may have changed but…

You get one set top box included with your Comcast account. If you don’t want it or need it you can get the first cable card free as you are already paying for it.

The second card is at $1.50 only if it is used in the same device. I was able to add two cards this way as they thought it was for one TiVo when I first set them up a few years back.

More cards for more devices are at a higher rate. The FCC rules are not that hard to follow. They even suggest a price of around $4 or so but Comcast chooses to break them.

They are required to list the price of a cable card. They do not. The only mention of this was the $1.50 for the second card IN THE SAME DEVICE. They did not show what they charge for just another cable card.

They are not allowed to up sell or otherwise require you to buy anything else or charge for installation or activation. But Comcast forces you to pay for a cable box bundle including an outlet charge and they then give you a dollar or two back for providing your own equipment. This is again breaks the FCC rules. What are you giving me a $2.50 credit for if you are not forcing me to buy something other than the card?

You can look them up and file a complaint on the FCC website. I got a call from some upset Comcast guy sometime later and he just kept telling me that they were not breaking any rules and when I read him the rules and he just would not admit to it. But they did cut my bill in half for six months.

Also, I was able to remove the HD fee and did not lose any HD channels. The down side is that when I had an issue with two of the channels not coming in randomly they kept trying to tell me that I needed that on my account and that was why the two channels would randomly go out for hours at a time.

Complaining works. Comcast in Chicago did something similar to me and despite 18 months of arguing with them they refused to do anything about it. So I filed a complaint with the Illinois Attorney General's office, included copies of my bill and printouts of Comcats's own website, and 2 weeks later I get a call from a very apologetic Comcast rep from their headquarters in Philadelphia. She fixed the bill and gave me a credit for 18 months of overbillings, plus a little extra as an apology.

This is not quite right or it wasn’t. I’m in the North Bay and earlier this year I added a new Premier and it was a nightmare. Things may have changed but…

You get one set top box included with your Comcast account. If you don’t want it or need it you can get the first cable card free as you are already paying for it.

The second card is at $1.50 only if it is used in the same device. I was able to add two cards this way as they thought it was for one TiVo when I first set them up a few years back.

More cards for more devices are at a higher rate. The FCC rules are not that hard to follow. They even suggest a price of around $4 or so but Comcast chooses to break them.

They are required to list the price of a cable card. They do not. The only mention of this was the $1.50 for the second card IN THE SAME DEVICE. They did not show what they charge for just another cable card.

They are not allowed to up sell or otherwise require you to buy anything else or charge for installation or activation. But Comcast forces you to pay for a cable box bundle including an outlet charge and they then give you a dollar or two back for providing your own equipment. This is again breaks the FCC rules. What are you giving me a $2.50 credit for if you are not forcing me to buy something other than the card?

You can look them up and file a complaint on the FCC website. I got a call from some upset Comcast guy sometime later and he just kept telling me that they were not breaking any rules and when I read him the rules and he just would not admit to it. But they did cut my bill in half for six months.

Also, I was able to remove the HD fee and did not lose any HD channels. The down side is that when I had an issue with two of the channels not coming in randomly they kept trying to tell me that I needed that on my account and that was why the two channels would randomly go out for hours at a time.

$163 a month is not reasonable for the complete TV package at all. I meant the fact I pay nothing extra for my cable card or HD is reasonable compared to other markets.

When I got additional cards they never asked what device it's for and only charged me $1.50 a month for each card.

I save(d) $324 dollars a year by switching to TiVo.

My TiVo Roamio Pro with its expanded storage (I had for my original premiere) allows me to feel like I am actually getting to take full advantage of my TV package. I can recorded close to 700 hours and can keep roughly 29-40 complete season of TV Shows.

Last night I added a couple shows I would of never recorded before because of the 700 hours of storage and six tuners. Knife Fight, Brew Dogs, House Hunters - my girlfriend loves that show. Some basic shows I can put on when I don't want to focus on a storyline.

Yes, I was irked by the new $9.95/mo "HD Technology fee", but the one that really chapped me was when my previously free digital tuning adapter (for my old Series 2 Tivo) stopped being free, it went to $1.95/mo but then was COUNTED AS MY FREE "FIRST" DEVICE. That means that the first CableCard in my Series 3 went from being my free "first" device to being a $9.95/mo card (less $2.5/mo for being in a customer-owned device). Comcast insists the cheapest device is *always* the first "free" device.

So dropping the digital tuning adapter would save me $7.45/mo. Dropping the DTA plus the Series 3 and its 2 CableCards would save me $14.90 would save me $22.35/mo. That's a lot of money for what was intended to be "cheap" devices to ensure I'm getting the channels I pay for.

Clearly, consumers won the battle on "outlet fees" in the analog age because the cable monopolies realized they'd win the war as soon as they moved to digital! All the worst "features" have returned, completely legally.

Been there, done that, didn't get any changes from Comcast (did get a nice call and followup letter to me and the FCC afterwards though). They insist that charging A/O fees for cards instead of a nominal rental fee (as the FCC card orders require) is perfectly OK, and the FCC doesn't care.

Been there, done that, didn't get any changes from Comcast (did get a nice call and followup letter to me and the FCC afterwards though). They insist that charging A/O fees for cards instead of a nominal rental fee (as the FCC card orders require) is perfectly OK, and the FCC doesn't care.

If enough people file with the FCC they will care but not enough people do so Comca$t do what it likes.

It’s not right or fare for ComCa$t to charge what it does for the service it provides but there is not enough competition to make them. It’s cheaper for them to give the one in 100+ folks that call in a price break than to do right by all its customers.

Charging A/O fees is illegal, end of story. They have been in trouble for this before and they just call it something else. They did this same thing with physical cable to the house. They wanted money for each TV in the house. This was illegal and they were forced to comply. Then they moved it out the poll or their box and run multiple cables to the house and again try to charge a fee to turn them on and so on. This again is illegal but they get away with it. Same in the digital realm, charging for a nonexistent digital port for each TV is illegal but they get away with it.

That is why the FCC is involved and that was the deal. They can encrypt their signal but they cannot charge you decrypt it on each device you own.

Do you have a regulation citation for this? I've been through the relevant FCC regulations a couple of times years ago, and I could never find language that forbid this. There is (or was) language that required a small reasonable fee for cablecards - I think the OP has a good case for fee reduction in his case - but I never found anything that directly addressed A/O fees, other than the general not charging more for outside equipment than their own, which they don't violate in general.

Do you have a regulation citation for this? I've been through the relevant FCC regulations a couple of times years ago, and I could never find language that forbid this. There is (or was) language that required a small reasonable fee for cablecards - I think the OP has a good case for fee reduction in his case - but I never found anything that directly addressed A/O fees, other than the general not charging more for outside equipment than their own, which they don't violate in general.

"Use your own set-top box without extra charge. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box."

Yep, I filed an FCC complaint a while back, and had a Comcast rep contact me to tell me I was paying an additional fee for "digital services" at the outlet which was perfectly legal in their interpretation. I asked how that applied to my CableCARD-equipped TV, since the only "service" I was getting were TV channels, and that resulted in a bit of dead air on the other end. Repeating the "use your own set-top box without extra charge" bit didn't make a difference to the Comcast rep.

Maybe it's time to contact the local Congress-critter? Not that any of them actually work for us ...

"Use your own set-top box without extra charge. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box."

Thanks, but I don't see that text in the actual regulations. The closest I see is

Quote:

No service fee shall be imposed on a subscriber for support of a subscriber-provided device that is not assessed on subscriber use of an operator-provided device.

"Use your own set-top box without extra charge. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box."

Compared to what you would pay for a STB, you are NOT paying additional fee for a CableCard. You actually get a $2.50 credit instead.

Compared to what you would pay for a STB, you are NOT paying additional fee for a CableCard. You actually get a $2.50 credit instead.

So the cable box is only worth $2.50? Anyway, it says they can’t do that. It says they have to list the price to rent the card but they don’t. It says they can’t charge you for extra stuff but they do. You want to tell yourself that they are good people following the rules ok, but they are not.

Don't know what to tell you. I's from the FCC site and it gives the rule number. ??? They are not to be charging a fee.

Where on the FCC site is it? It's not where you said it is - I gave you those regulations. I've read the interim explanations/instructions for 1205 and it's not there either. How do you know it's on the FCC site?

And note that strictly speaking, your statement may allow A/O charges. It might mean they can't charge an additional service charge above what they do on their own equipment, but they can charge the same service charge as they do on their own equipment. What it really means all depends on the surrounding context of your statement; we need to see that context.

This was another beef I had in the complaint - Comcast does not break down the rental price of a card on their price sheets as required by the orders. The best you get is the '$1.50 fee for extra card in same device' line which was used for the old Tivo S3s (and which doesn't apply to additional Tivos in your house), but that's it.

Where on the FCC site is it? It's not where you said it is - I gave you those regulations. I've read the interim explanations/instructions for 1205 and it's not there either. How do you know it's on the FCC site?

And note that strictly speaking, your statement may allow A/O charges. It might mean they can't charge an additional service charge above what they do on their own equipment, but they can charge the same service charge as they do on their own equipment. What it really means all depends on the surrounding context of your statement; we need to see that context.

Dude, are you just messing with me, work for Comcast? I put quote marks around it. I’m not just making stuff up. Not where I said it is? It’s a copy and paste from the FCC site. I said it was on the FCC site. I went to the site and searched for, I think… wait for it… “cable cards”.

“And note that strictly speaking, your statement may allow A/O charges.” No, I disagree. “without extra charge” and “may not charge you an additional service fee”

This is not an extra remote or DRV or a set top tuner box. Its access to the content you already paid for.

They wanted to encrypt their signal and that is fine but the deal was they had to offer a way for people to buy a second or third TV and watch what they had paid for without more fees. They agreed knowing most would want a DVR or would not want to buy a new TV.

I don’t really care at this point, these kind of companies just do whatever they think the market will bear and if they charge $1200 a year for commercial filled TV and people pay it what can you say? Then on top of it they have to nickel and dime with intentionally confusing BS. This is theft. There should be a simple flat rate for a few tiers or groups of channels and that is it but that is not how they make money.

The FCC had to tell them to provide cards when asked and not charge a bunch of money for instilling or activating and not forever delay and so on and so on. They don’t want people to use their own equipment. They’ve done what they can to discourage it.

The port charge is just to discourage people from using their own equipment and a revenue stream for Comcast.

And note: You do realize that the cable companies have already started lobbing the FCC to remove the requirement that they support CableCARDs as they say no one uses them and it's an undue burden for them? Even though they can use the same tech in the CableCARDs as their DVRs and set top boxes.

Dude, are you just messing with me, work for Comcast? I put quote marks around it. I’m not just making stuff up. Not where I said it is? It’s a copy and paste from the FCC site. I said it was on the FCC site. I went to the site and searched for, I think… wait for it… “cable cards”.

Unfortunately, there's no extra text there to remove the ambiguity. Yes, it could mean what you say it means, but it also supports the alternative interpretation that I said before: they are not charging you for using your own equipment, they are charging you for an additional outlet. They would be charging you for that additional outlet even if you used their equipment. There is no extra charge for using your own equipment.

However, the regulations, which I gave you two links to, are not ambiguous at all. They clearly support the latter interpretation with no support for your interpretation. And it's the regulations that matter.

Also note that you claim there was a deal not to charge for second or third TVs, presumably even if you used cable company equipment. There is absolutely no text here (or anywhere else on the site, AFAIK) that would keep them from charging an additional outlet fee if their own equipment was used.

I'm not happy with the situation, but the regulations are what they are, and there is nothing in the regulations that I've seen that suggests additional outlet fees can't be charged if TiVos are used, as long as they are charged if their own equipment is used.

Useless complaints to the FCC to the contrary will just distract from the real complaints we have about the additional changes the cable companies want to impose on us, as you have touched on.

I think it's fair to charge money for additional outlets, using CableCard or their STB. Why should a household with 1 TV pay the same amount as a household with 10 TVs?

Because with 10 TVs they would pay more if they needed cable cards, the cable Co. should only charge extra for what they provide, and cost them money, say an amp or other equipment. In the analog days it would not cost the cable co anything for you to have basic cable on one outlet or 10 outlets, if you had only one outlet and 10 people in your family watched a movie in the one room should cable co charge more money?, it may be legal and possible now to charge more per outlet, but not very moral. This will be a bummer for TiVo also so TiVo should try to do something about this charge issue.

I think it's fair to charge money for additional outlets, using CableCard or their STB. Why should a household with 1 TV pay the same amount as a household with 10 TVs?

Does a house with more computers pay more for internet? Maybe if they go over a bandwidth cap, but otherwise no.

Does it cost the provider more if you are watching 1 tv vs. 10 tv's? I'm not entirely sure but I think the answer here is also no.

Seems they charge for outlets only because they can and have been allowed to do so. What if all internet traffic was encrypted and we were required to have a provider box to decrypt on all computers? I feel I am paying for them to provide me a signal. What I do with that is up to me, and if I want to split it, it's none of the provider's business. (excluding restrictions like rebroadcasting) That's how it used to be, before digital gave them the ability to charge per outlet.

Since the move to digital cable and the necessity of cable cards in early 2010, I've been paying $1.99/mo/card. I have a truck roll coming next for two Roamios replacing two HD S3s. Price hasn't changed....still two bucks a month. Comcast...Denver

Unfortunately, there's no extra text there to remove the ambiguity. Yes, it could mean what you say it means, but it also supports the alternative interpretation that I said before: they are not charging you for using your own equipment, they are charging you for an additional outlet. They would be charging you for that additional outlet even if you used their equipment. There is no extra charge for using your own equipment.

However, the regulations, which I gave you two links to, are not ambiguous at all. They clearly support the latter interpretation with no support for your interpretation. And it's the regulations that matter.

Also note that you claim there was a deal not to charge for second or third TVs, presumably even if you used cable company equipment. There is absolutely no text here (or anywhere else on the site, AFAIK) that would keep them from charging an additional outlet fee if their own equipment was used.

I'm not happy with the situation, but the regulations are what they are, and there is nothing in the regulations that I've seen that suggests additional outlet fees can't be charged if TiVos are used, as long as they are charged if their own equipment is used.

Useless complaints to the FCC to the contrary will just distract from the real complaints we have about the additional changes the cable companies want to impose on us, as you have touched on.

The ambiguity is them coming up with a name for something and charging you for it when the rule says they can not do that. ???

You can say my argument doesn’t hold but then the alternative is it’s ok for them to make up a fee and say that its charged on all their devices and then charge people that want CableCARDs that same fee. Wait that is what they are doing. What if they said their $10 a month set-top box is only 50 cents a month to lease and the port fee is $9.50 or more? Wait that is what they are doing. Yea sounds good, the Comcast box is 50 cents month and the port fee is $55 and with the Comcast equipment discount you only pay $10 but if you want a CableCARD you pay $55.50 but they’ll credit you the 50 cents for providing your own equipment so that’s $55. I hope they are not reading this.

"Use your own set-top box without extra charge. FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5)(C). Your cable operator may charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter, but may not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box."

So much ambiguity and it's not in the right place on the FCC site. I don't agree.

"Gratuitous insults" You told me I was making it up and it was not were I said it was. I'm insulted! I do hope you are kidding. I don't really think you work for them but I don't get that you don't get it.

But it says somewhere else they can charge extra because it’s called this thing that they say they charge for other stuff they sell. No, I do not agree. This is a rule for CableCARDs not set-top boxes or TV’s OR DVRs. I cannot buy a set-top box and then demand that they give me HBO for free. They can charge for programing that they would otherwise charge for. They cannot add fees or charges for service to the device. “may not charge you an additional service fee” Fee for CableCARD, $$ ok and fee for… No! No and then! Fee for physical device to verify I paid for what I’m watching ok and fee for... No! No and then!

"Unfortunately, there's no extra text there to remove the ambiguity. Yes, it could mean what you say it means,"

What, what, what?

1. Use your own set-top box without extra charge.
2. Your cable operator may (may, like that, will more like) charge you to lease a CableCARD or tuning adapter.
3. May not charge you an additional service fee for using your own digital-cable-ready television or set-top box.
4. They could have just put item 2 and left it at that but they did not. So this item would be what to stop the port fee? I think 1-3 cover it and well. Maybe “Cannot charge a port fee.” sounds good, that should cover it. Nope, because now we have a numeration fee. Each device on their network takes up a serial number and someone has to help pay for that.

It’s all so silly anyway. They know people don’t like it but they do it anyway. It says on the FCC site (not in the right place) that they can’t do it but they do it anyway. It’s probably something like, they don’t have to pay tax on software or service fees so they want the revenue that way, when they could just add a dollar to the lease fee that they can legally charge.

You can say my argument doesn’t hold but then the alternative is it’s ok for them to make up a fee and say that its charged on all their devices and then charge people that want CableCARDs that same fee. Wait that is what they are doing. What if they said their $10 a month set-top box is only 50 cents a month to lease and the port fee is $9.50 or more? Wait that is what they are doing. Yea sounds good, the Comcast box is 50 cents month and the port fee is $55 and with the Comcast equipment discount you only pay $10 but if you want a CableCARD you pay $55.50 but they’ll credit you the 50 cents for providing your own equipment so that’s $55. I hope they are not reading this.

I'm OTA only, so I'm inclined to agree with you. But what do you expect from the cable companies? There was a time when phone companies charged for each phone connected, and it was forbidden to attach "foreign" devices (equipment purchased elsewhere) to the phone line. Like local phone companies back then and mobile providers now, the cable companies will push every regulation to the limit and try to get away with anything that the regulators and their customers will put up with. The ultimate solution is to "vote with your feet". If more and more people "cut the cord", the cable companies may finally start to see the error of their ways. Until then, don't hold your breath. Just doing what's fair and just isn't in their nature.

Since the move to digital cable and the necessity of cable cards in early 2010, I've been paying $1.99/mo/card. I have a truck roll coming next for two Roamios replacing two HD S3s. Price hasn't changed....still two bucks a month. Comcast...Denver

This was another part of my complaint - Comcast does not consistently bill the same amount for cards, even within the same area. It was acknowledged as an issue by Comcast to the FCC but not much has changed, obviously.

This was another part of my complaint - Comcast does not consistently bill the same amount for cards, even within the same area. It was acknowledged as an issue by Comcast to the FCC but not much has changed, obviously.

Even in the same account. They bill me one cable card at $1.15 and another as an AO. They are in two different TiVos.

I think it's fair to charge money for additional outlets, using CableCard [sic] or their STB. Why should a household with 1 TV pay the same amount as a household with 10 TVs?

A household with 1 TV will pay less than one with 10 TVs. It's a matter of how much less. An appropriate monthly fee for each CableCARD is legitimate. What isn't legitimate is being charged nearly the same or more for a TiVo with CableCARD compared to a cable company's STB. The service provider is providing no more goods and services to 10 TVs than to 1 TV in the same household beyond supporting the cable company's equipment being used. Hence, the rental fees for their equipment. If I have my own STBs (TiVos), I'm responsible for their care, maintenance and any problems with them, not the cable company.

Comcast has structured things with so many different add-on fees, in their effort to make more money, that it's difficult for anyone to understand it all, including their own employees. It's impossible to go to their web site and figure out how much a subscription would (should) cost per month. IMHO that is the problem. Too many Comcast employees and their immediate supervisors don't understand what subscribers are supposed to be charged for, especially for TVs with CableCARD slots (quite rare now; a thing of the past) and user owned STBs that used CableCARDs. If you read the CableCARD stuff on their web site, it lacks clarity. I had to read it several times to understand what it said. Took me a while to convince them that two cards in a Series 3 (which requires two cards) was not the same as two STBs; had to cite chapter and verse from Comcast's web site to the employee. Another piece of the problem is the overwhelming percentage of consumer devices needing CableCARDs are TiVos (Series 3 and newer), and they're a tiny percentage of Comcast's subscribers, the vast majority of whom rent a STB from Comcast. The cable company's employees that deal with their customers are not evil, they don't handle CableCARDs and the specific fees customers should be charged for them that often. If they did, it would be much more consistent (notwithstanding Comcast fees varying significantly by market region; e.g. the monthly fee for the exact same service is different in Colorado compared to Indiana).

All that said, the corporate strategy (not set by the employees at the bottom, but by the corporate officers at the top) is finding a legal means to charge you as big a fee as possible for every TV in your house that's connected to their cable system. The latest is the notice I just received in the mail from Comcast that the FCC is allowing the cable companies to encrypt all the local broadcast channels they carry. This will FORCE every TV to have a STB or it will go black as everything will be encrypted. Former FCC rules require local broadcast channels to be carried, and they prohibited them from being encrypted. Simply subscribing to the most basic service allowed receiving all local broadcast channels in HD (and in 480i SD) provided the TV has a QAM tuner. The reason for this was ensuring the ability to receive local severe weather and other emergency broadcasts with or without a STB. I'm left scratching my head why the FCC would drop their encryption prohibition. The FCC rule-making and hearing process surrounding this decision apparently escaped much notice. It will get noticed, much too late for the FCC to reconsider it, when consumers find all their additional TVs around the house that don't have STBs have suddenly gone black in the very near future. I predict the cable companies will be deluged with irate customer complaint calls when that happens because watching broadcast network late-night talk shows on the bedroom TV just went bye-bye, without another STB and rental fee for it, and pay a premium for an HD STB if you want to see it in HD versus 480i (which is in 4:3 aspect ratio with really ugly looking resolution on a 1080p HDTV).