"Mr. Landis said that Mr. Armstrong's longtime coach, Johan Bruyneel, introduced Mr. Landis to the use of steroid patches, blood doping and human growth hormone in 2002 and 2003."

"He alleged Mr. Armstrong helped him understand the way the drugs worked. "He and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test,"

Other interesting names in the article are Dave Zabriskie, Levi Leiphiemer and George Hincapie.

Poor Floyd! Poor Lance. I am so sorry to learn of all of these fallen atleets. Not me! I am clean. So very very clean! I will never ever ever fail drugs test! No siree Bob! I run 12:39 on my smile and high-carbohidrate diet! I never ever take aspirin, I am so very BERRY clean!

It's nice to have another confirmation of Lance Armstrong's doping. The fact is Lance Armstrong years ago was nabbed by Cycling statisticians who detected and revealed his dirty career performances. He also has had numerous 'roid rages followed by "Happy like a Mormon" trances.

This is great news, even if it's a little like hearing that there's gambling in Casablanca.

I don't quite understand what's going on in the minds of those like the previous poster ("this seems just a desparate [sic] attempt to grab some publicity"). I'll grant them that Landis is a liar, at least when his own career is on the line, but I don't see much to be gained by libeling Armstrong.

selective reading wrote:"Mr. Landis's charges couldn't be independently verified. Mr. Landis did not respond to a request for comment."/quote

Not so fast. Did you read the entire atricle .

I did. This is huge.

Sure, nothing is confirmed yet. But Landis hasn't just made vague accusations. He's extremely detailed--who, when, where and how (why don't need a snitch to tell use what and why). Landis knows enough to understand libel laws. This is for real.

As a cyclist, I've wondered for years who would be the first to come forth like this. I can't believe it's finally happened.

Landis just lost himself a lot of friends. But someone needed to do this. Good for him.

And as a parting shot, does anyone here actually believe that this problem is limited to cycling and that elite runners are clean?

selective reading wrote:"Mr. Landis's charges couldn't be independently verified. Mr. Landis did not respond to a request for comment."/quote

Not so fast. Did you read the entire atricle .

I did. Do you really think that a reporter for the Wall Street Journal is going to be able to obtain independent verification of such charges in the course of a single news cycle? At this point, the important "verification" obtained by the reporter from three other sources is that the emails were "authentic," in the sense that they were written by Landis.

hotter than hell

RE: Cyclist Floyd Landis Admits Doping, Alleges Use by Armstrong and Others .5/20/2010 12:56AM - in reply to Avocados Number

Faceless wrote:And as a parting shot, does anyone here actually believe that this problem is limited to cycling and that elite runners are clean?

I don't think that it's limited to cycling, but I would be surprised to learn that most international-caliber distances are dopers. In contrast, I would have been very surprised to learn that most serious contenders in the Tour de France during the last fifteen years were clean. Cycling has been a very dirty sport for a very long time; doping has been a part of its culture.

It's impossible to catch dopers using drug tests. There are simply too many substances to test.

In California, Horse Racing is controlled tighter than the Pentagon controls nuclear weapons. By California state law, dozens of detectives with law enforcement career track, college degrees, at least 20 years of experience each, are present at the race track, and when horses are offloaded from the airport (LAX for Breeder's Cup for instance), etc. The jockeys, grooms, trainers, owners, all have extensive personal background checks made. By law, only the state veterinarian many inject a substance into any horse, or draw blood. The state detectives stand there next to the state vet and are handed samples from horses and jockeys, then personally package the items, and personally drive and deliver the samples to Fed Ex for shipping to the lab for testing. The stables, grounds, etc. are secured by the state detectives. The motivation is to prevent cheating and to keep organized crime out of horse racing. The cost of course is enormous. Huge fees are deducted from ticket prices and prize winnings to pay the police. Taxpayer funds are not used at all.

But even with these extreme Gestapo style measures, doping still occurs. The labs can't detect all substances.

Avocados Number wrote:hat it's limited to cycling, but I would be surprised to learn that most international-caliber distances are dopers. In contrast, I would have been very surprised to learn that most serious contenders in the Tour de France during the last fifteen years were clean. Cycling has been a very dirty sport for a very long time; doping has been a part of its culture.

And world records keep falling because of new training methods. Riiiight, "training methods."

Occam's Razor, yo.

selective reading

RE: Cyclist Floyd Landis Admits Doping, Alleges Use by Armstrong and Others .5/20/2010 1:26AM - in reply to Avocados Number

selective reading wrote:"Mr. Landis's charges couldn't be independently verified. Mr. Landis did not respond to a request for comment."/quote

Not so fast. Did you read the entire atricle .

I did. Do you really think that a reporter for the Wall Street Journal is going to be able to obtain independent verification of such charges in the course of a single news cycle? At this point, the important "verification" obtained by the reporter from three other sources is that the emails were "authentic," in the sense that they were written by Landis.

Rupert's people will print Lindsay Lohan's pube color of the week .

Yanqui

RE: Cyclist Floyd Landis Admits Doping, Alleges Use by Armstrong and Others .5/20/2010 1:26AM - in reply to good