I would say that paganism is radically different from Christianity, but that the big monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) are just branches of the same philosophy.

September 9th, 2013, 3:32 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Blueskies wrote:

I would say that paganism is radically different from Christianity, but that the big monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) are just branches of the same philosophy.

How would you define 'radically different'?

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

September 9th, 2013, 3:45 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

TDJ:

Thanks for responding. I believe that there is an answer within your answer though. Out of all the main line religions, muslim, budhism, taoism, catholicism there is a person put in place, but their "god" is aloof. Catholicism not so much, but they tend to mix in the worship of Mary, and the Saints, which is wrong in my opinion. Mary is seen as the mother of Jesus, therefore she is the "mother of God" which is true in it's human component, but ceases to be of value at that point. She has no more influence over Jesus than you and I. Jesus, himself, established that at the cross when He told Mary, "mother here is your son, and son here is your mother, speaking to Jonathan." Jesus gave charge of Mary and the physical ties to Jonathan, and the same for Mary.

Jesus is the incarnate God, both fully man and fully God. The difficulty in this, is that the Bible is the spoken Word of God given to man. Because the authenticity has been questioned, and there are people who willfully try to disprove the Bible based upon some of the things you might read within the story. However, there are physical documentations of certain events proving to be true by sources such as National Geographic. They did a story on the location of Sodom and Gomorrah, and have actually found physical evidence of the story provided in Genesis.

I will try to find the article but please forgive me if I can not locate it, that tells of Oil companies in Alaska finding tropical plants in their drilling cores, but not mentioning it because it authenticates Genesis' statement about the world being an entire tropical environment, up until the great flood.

I know that several pages back we discussed the flood in some detail, and one of the many questions that came up were if the flood did not happen, why are their fossilized skeletal remains of ocean life in clefts of mountains (there is a name for it, but they're bowl like depressions in mountains that would collect water as it recedes like mud puddles). Genesis goes into great detail speaking of how there were two bodies of water one inner body that formed the Earth, then the solar system and space were made, and then there was an outer ring of water that existed. When the flood came the wells of the Earth were opened, and the first time EVER mentioned, Rain fell upon the Earth. The outer ring of water is gone, so this leads me to believe that it was that protectionary ring that was pierced and flooded the earth.

Sorry, I started chasing rabbits for a moment. I believe that many people have difficulty with the Bible, and Christianity because it reveals to them the truth concerning their destiny. For lack of a better illustration, it's like seeing a reflection in the mirror that shows you as being severely overweight. So you willfully ignore the mirror, and may even put it aside, because you don't like what you see.

Christianity, has done much wrong in the way of communication. We've often assumed a superiority complex, or tried to beat people into the Kingdom using a Bible to do it. But in truth, if we Christians would love more, and judge less, wouldn't we be more relationaly involved? Make a friend, be a friend, lead a friend to Christ. I'm choosing to love many of you, and giving up my life by praying for you, and trying to engage you in conversations that hopefully, will encourage you to seek out what it is I'm talking about. In my immaturity, I've often been beligerent, or stubborn, but it wasn't out of a disrespect for anyone's personal beliefs, it was more out of a concern for you, and not knowing how to adequately communicate that in a type written forum. The thing is, you don't have the opportunity to see my heart, and the emotion I feel for you, because of who you are. We've never met, and may never meet in the future, but our interactions here have placed me in a position where the Lord has said, go get them. So in obedience, I've often tried to "go get them" but my zeal and desire has often burned people. It's kind of like the old off colored joke about the two bulls. One older, the other much younger, and they are overlooking a herd of cows. The younger looks at the older and says "why don't we run down there and mate with that cow, and the older says, why don't we walk down and mate with all of them." In my immaturity, I was the runner, and the zeal and passion burned and turned people off. But as I'm growing in faith and love, I'm learning to walk, and LISTEN, and most importantly I'm choosing to love you, because He first loved me.

I hope I'm not too far off target but I wanted to attempt to communicate my heart a little.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

Thanks for responding. I believe that there is an answer within your answer though. Out of all the main line religions, muslim, budhism, taoism, catholicism there is a person put in place, but their "god" is aloof. Catholicism not so much, but they tend to mix in the worship of Mary, and the Saints, which is wrong in my opinion. Mary is seen as the mother of Jesus, therefore she is the "mother of God" which is true in it's human component, but ceases to be of value at that point. She has no more influence over Jesus than you and I. Jesus, himself, established that at the cross when He told Mary, "mother here is your son, and son here is your mother, speaking to Jonathan." Jesus gave charge of Mary and the physical ties to Jonathan, and the same for Mary.

Jesus is the incarnate God, both fully man and fully God. The difficulty in this, is that the Bible is the spoken Word of God given to man. Because the authenticity has been questioned, and there are people who willfully try to disprove the Bible based upon some of the things you might read within the story. However, there are physical documentations of certain events proving to be true by sources such as National Geographic. They did a story on the location of Sodom and Gomorrah, and have actually found physical evidence of the story provided in Genesis.

I will try to find the article but please forgive me if I can not locate it, that tells of Oil companies in Alaska finding tropical plants in their drilling cores, but not mentioning it because it authenticates Genesis' statement about the world being an entire tropical environment, up until the great flood.

I know that several pages back we discussed the flood in some detail, and one of the many questions that came up were if the flood did not happen, why are their fossilized skeletal remains of ocean life in clefts of mountains (there is a name for it, but they're bowl like depressions in mountains that would collect water as it recedes like mud puddles). Genesis goes into great detail speaking of how there were two bodies of water one inner body that formed the Earth, then the solar system and space were made, and then there was an outer ring of water that existed. When the flood came the wells of the Earth were opened, and the first time EVER mentioned, Rain fell upon the Earth. The outer ring of water is gone, so this leads me to believe that it was that protectionary ring that was pierced and flooded the earth.

Sorry, I started chasing rabbits for a moment. I believe that many people have difficulty with the Bible, and Christianity because it reveals to them the truth concerning their destiny. For lack of a better illustration, it's like seeing a reflection in the mirror that shows you as being severely overweight. So you willfully ignore the mirror, and may even put it aside, because you don't like what you see.

Christianity, has done much wrong in the way of communication. We've often assumed a superiority complex, or tried to beat people into the Kingdom using a Bible to do it. But in truth, if we Christians would love more, and judge less, wouldn't we be more relationaly involved? Make a friend, be a friend, lead a friend to Christ. I'm choosing to love many of you, and giving up my life by praying for you, and trying to engage you in conversations that hopefully, will encourage you to seek out what it is I'm talking about. In my immaturity, I've often been beligerent, or stubborn, but it wasn't out of a disrespect for anyone's personal beliefs, it was more out of a concern for you, and not knowing how to adequately communicate that in a type written forum. The thing is, you don't have the opportunity to see my heart, and the emotion I feel for you, because of who you are. We've never met, and may never meet in the future, but our interactions here have placed me in a position where the Lord has said, go get them. So in obedience, I've often tried to "go get them" but my zeal and desire has often burned people. It's kind of like the old off colored joke about the two bulls. One older, the other much younger, and they are overlooking a herd of cows. The younger looks at the older and says "why don't we run down there and mate with that cow, and the older says, why don't we walk down and mate with all of them." In my immaturity, I was the runner, and the zeal and passion burned and turned people off. But as I'm growing in faith and love, I'm learning to walk, and LISTEN, and most importantly I'm choosing to love you, because He first loved me.

I hope I'm not too far off target but I wanted to attempt to communicate my heart a little.

Both the idea of heavy world wide flooding and the earth being an entirely tropical environment are neither hidden or whispered ideas in science. World wide flooding most likely happened after the the ice age as the climate warmed and the ice caps melted moving large glaciers across continents. There are large desert areas in the US that were once giant bodies of water. As for the world once being entirely tropical, it makes sense seeing as how according to many scientists the earth itself has been cooling since it's creation. The reason that stuff didn't get a lot of media coverage is because unfortunately science and innovation have become boring topics in this country.

Don't confuse any of that with refuting your ideas on Christianity because I'm not arguing any of that. I actually find your new way of speaking about your chosen religion very refreshing. What I do find completely false is the idea these discoveries are being pushed out of the public eye because they prove anything inline with The Bible. These discoveries are just more evidence to help understand ideas scientists have been putting forth for years with no connection to anything religious at all.

September 10th, 2013, 11:38 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

"What I do find completely false is the idea these discoveries are being pushed out of the public eye because they prove anything inline with The Bible. These discoveries are just more evidence to help understand ideas scientists have been putting forth for years with no connection to anything religious at all."

Rao,

I can accept that, and it could be considered "conspiracy theorish", so I see where you are coming from on that. Maybe it's a little of recent history raising it's head in my point of view... Thanks!

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 10th, 2013, 1:03 pm

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2862

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

There are fossils on mountains because mountains are "born" and "die" over time.

New mountains are created when two plate tectonics bump into eachother. One pushes the other up, creating a mountain range -- land that used to be flat is pushed up higher and forms a mountain. Then slowly over time, erosion wears the mountain range down. This is why there are mountain ranges of different ages, which stands in stark contrast to a literal interpretation of the biblical creation story.

September 10th, 2013, 2:11 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Blue,

I've been thinking about your response, and I even went so far as to research the growth rate of Everest per year, and it's an estimated 2.4 inches a year. Then I tried to remember how old modern science suggests the earth is. In absence of that number I said 5 billion. That puts the 2.4 x 5 billion at 12,000,000,000 inches. I hope you can see where I'm trying to go. The numbers aren't adding up. Now, please note that this is EXTREMELY rudimentary, but I was trying to figure out how we could take your information, compare it with known info. and then make a sound statement. However, whether it's my errors or not, I couldn't get the math to work.

I also went back and reread your statement and there is some errors in it. One you make an assumption that all was separated into our present continental plates. Two, you are now allowing for any changes that COULD have happened when the Earth was submerged. I know these are stretches, but no more than many of the beliefs that you are asking of me.

I'm not looking for an argument, and I'm not trying to judge you or your statements at all. But what I would like for you to do is understand that the Bible as WE understand it was not "written" for us. The audience was Jewish to begin with, and they have a more literal and concrete way of looking at the things described in the Bible. The Greek which was the other language the Bible was originally translated into was an analytical base. The best example is to explain it returning to a common experiment. Frogs: If you ask a Jew to explain a frog they will sit in it's environment and record everything giving you all of the hard data collected from the experience of sitting in it's environment. The Greek is analytical. So it removes the frog from it's environment, and will dissect it until all is known about the frog. Neither or wrong, just different. (The example was given by Ray Vander Laan Holland High School Teacher and well known historical religious teacher: "Follow the Rabbi)

So your complaints about the Bible aren't entirely true because some is literal, some is experiential.

Has anyone ever listened to or heard of Dr. Ben Scripture? This is his real name, and he carries several degrees in zoology, biology and much more, and he provides evidence on creation. I was just wondering. Have a blessed day.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 11th, 2013, 7:25 pm

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2862

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

I'm no expert on the theory of plate tectonics, but if you're legitimately curious, there are many books on the subject to chose from:

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 14th, 2013, 10:41 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

What do you mean by "attempts to reason?"

It is pretty straight-forward. A 50 page thread in which you are challenged with and avoid the same facts (e.g. well-established concepts like plate tectonics) over & over again ... indicates that it might be a good idea to stop trying to reason with you. You clearly have zero interest in learning what other people know, and just want to express your beliefs - that's it.

I personally don't think blueskies really thinks you might be legitimately curious (even though he asked), because he's been around & knows you're not. Therefore... [/attempts to reason].

And the selective use of science and math is embarrassing. Or it should be. That is, if you even realized you were doing it.

September 15th, 2013, 5:52 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Thanks for clarifying your statement. You know I really appreciate it when you react with such sarcasm, because it really challenges me to return grace in return. I see it as an opportunity to "bless and do not curse" or "bless those who persecute you" because the younger, less mature version of me would have done to you, what your sig caricature is doing to the Bengals player.

Having said that, I'm still waiting for answers from you and Blue concerning Spiritual questions that I've asked. I find it very interesting that when a question that I've asked hits a little too close to something that might challenge your own "belief" system, that I don't get a response. It appears that it's easier to overlook it, or just ignore it outright, and then retaliate with vehement speech in order to 1. discredit me, 2. belittle me, 3. attempt to substantiate your own belief system by tearing down something you can't or won't explain.

What's even more interesting to me, is how threatened you are by the care and concern that I have for your Eternal destiny. Why is that? What is so antagonistic about someone wishing to share something that you can never find nor understand using human science? Why does this threaten you?

Can Science prove the Spiritual realm?Is there anything that goes on in the Spiritual realm that is tangible?

For your information, I took the link to Amazon, and I actually checked into a couple of the titles, but then came to the conclusion that in following after the titles I would be taking the opinion of another finite individual who backs theories and speculations with "fact." But the funny thing about facts is that they can obscure the truth. So it's not that I want to avoid reading someone else's hypothesis, as much as it would be wasted effort because we are discussing apples to apples. This is not to disrespect your belief system, it is to say that we are not discussing the same thing, and according to your point of view, because you have "facts" your belief structure is better. However, Scripture has been proven true over the centuries by it's own accord, and recorded witnesses, but because you weren't there some thousands of years ago, it's false. Can you see the difference I was talking about above? Recorded witnesses, and experts from several different fields all spoke of the different events, even in the gospels, but because you have tangibly seen it for yourself, or seen "hard evidence" it's a lie. Yet not a single one of your scientists was alive "several billion years ago" when two single cell micro-organisms met in a primordial swamp bar, and mated thus creating all that we know today. The math, and probability equations don't really add up to the time frame portrayed by modern science.

I.E. I understand why the thought of a Creator outside of all that you see and know to be truth threatens you. Because if the Bible is true, that means your whole belief system is built on a foundation of sand, and will not be able to stand. However, if after mankind ceases to exist on this blue marble, and if I am wrong, what harm have I done by living Christian principles? Have I loved my neighbor? Have I turned the other cheek? Have I chosen to love instead of hate? I can honestly answer yes to these questions, and will continue to the best of my ability.

So in spite of your snide remarks, I'll choose to love you anyway and keep carrying you before the Lord. So sit back and enjoy the ride, and no I won't be serving peanuts.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

September 15th, 2013, 8:07 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Thanks for clarifying your statement. You know I really appreciate it when you react with such sarcasm, because it really challenges me to return grace in return. I see it as an opportunity to "bless and do not curse" or "bless those who persecute you" because the younger, less mature version of me would have done to you, what your sig caricature is doing to the Bengals player.

Having said that, I'm still waiting for answers from you and Blue concerning Spiritual questions that I've asked. I find it very interesting that when a question that I've asked hits a little too close to something that might challenge your own "belief" system, that I don't get a response. It appears that it's easier to overlook it, or just ignore it outright, and then retaliate with vehement speech in order to 1. discredit me, 2. belittle me, 3. attempt to substantiate your own belief system by tearing down something you can't or won't explain.

What's even more interesting to me, is how threatened you are by the care and concern that I have for your Eternal destiny. Why is that? What is so antagonistic about someone wishing to share something that you can never find nor understand using human science? Why does this threaten you?

Can Science prove the Spiritual realm?Is there anything that goes on in the Spiritual realm that is tangible?

For your information, I took the link to Amazon, and I actually checked into a couple of the titles, but then came to the conclusion that in following after the titles I would be taking the opinion of another finite individual who backs theories and speculations with "fact." But the funny thing about facts is that they can obscure the truth. So it's not that I want to avoid reading someone else's hypothesis, as much as it would be wasted effort because we are discussing apples to apples. This is not to disrespect your belief system, it is to say that we are not discussing the same thing, and according to your point of view, because you have "facts" your belief structure is better. However, Scripture has been proven true over the centuries by it's own accord, and recorded witnesses, but because you weren't there some thousands of years ago, it's false. Can you see the difference I was talking about above? Recorded witnesses, and experts from several different fields all spoke of the different events, even in the gospels, but because you have tangibly seen it for yourself, or seen "hard evidence" it's a lie. Yet not a single one of your scientists was alive "several billion years ago" when two single cell micro-organisms met in a primordial swamp bar, and mated thus creating all that we know today. The math, and probability equations don't really add up to the time frame portrayed by modern science.

I.E. I understand why the thought of a Creator outside of all that you see and know to be truth threatens you. Because if the Bible is true, that means your whole belief system is built on a foundation of sand, and will not be able to stand. However, if after mankind ceases to exist on this blue marble, and if I am wrong, what harm have I done by living Christian principles? Have I loved my neighbor? Have I turned the other cheek? Have I chosen to love instead of hate? I can honestly answer yes to these questions, and will continue to the best of my ability.

So in spite of your snide remarks, I'll choose to love you anyway and keep carrying you before the Lord. So sit back and enjoy the ride, and no I won't be serving peanuts.

It wasn't sarcasm ... it was an earnest statement that I believe you have zero interest in anything that could change your thinking, in response to blue's comment. I believe this long topic is great evidence of that - you repeat the same things over & over, and there is no convincing you otherwise (even though you claim to be open minded).

If you do come across some new idea, you typically ignore it, or try to explain it away in some ridiculously uninformed anti-knowledge concept like shells and other fossils from prehistoric seas are there because of a world-wide flood - and not because of proved science like plate tectonics. Plate tectonics is not hypothetical...it is hard-core, proved science. Science is not on the same level as a 2000 year old book of stories that causes people both to feel good about themselves and bad about themselves based on fear of the unknown (in addition to getting millions of people killed).

I don't have a belief system, or faith in anything superstitious or magical - nothing of that sort ... I don't even have NFL game day "lucky" jerseys or other stuff (lol). You can't challenge or threaten something I don't have. You're approaching this in the wrong way - as if I have some competing religious philosophy and am engaging in some kind of debate over whose magic is more powerful. That's not it - on the contrary, what we have here is one person with a magical, evidence-free story trying to convince another rational person to buy into craziness with no legitimate evidence... like trying to convince an adult that Santa Clause exists.

Keep in mind that your "eternal life" story is perceived by me in the identical way that you look at the Easter Bunny, Islam's 72 virgins or Christian Science's volcano aliens. That is how absurd it is to me... so the weird threats about it make no sense to me. I'm not afraid of any concept of a creator or afterlife - it is completely nonsense.... a made-up story. I don't have a shred of a doubt in my mind about that. I don't know if you ever consider that or not - but it must be terrifying if you do. I, on the other hand, have come to terms with it. There is no heaven or hell. We're all made of elements from the aftermath of explosions of ancient stars -and that is it. To me - that is awesome, and beautiful.

Science can't - and would never attempt - to prove or dis-prove a spiritual realm. Again, you don't listen (or understand). Science doesn't care about or even recognize spiritual things - only things that can be measured and tested. I'm not trying to discredit you. I believe you discredit yourself, over & over again, to the people who read this stuff.... with a conspicuous lack of understanding of science, math, politics and history. But that doesn't stop you from repeating yourself with unsubstantiated content, claims and magical thinking that you believe supports your beliefs.

Statements like "facts obscure the truth" make no sense at all. They don't come across as wise, or learned. It is the type of thing that preachers say to sheep that desperately need guidance and slogans to fend off their fears and keep them in line.

Lastly - you need to understand ... when you say you'll "pray for me", it isn't harmless in my opinion. It is an insult, coming from someone who clearly and arrogantly perceives himself superior, and with access to divine magic. And it is disturbing to me - that you believe things like uttering things to yourself, going through some physical motions with your hands, or jumping up & down while patting your head & rubbing your belly ... those kinds of things give you a direct personal line to the creator of the universe. That's wacko, man. And super-arrogant. And a bit scary to me, because I see it as a kind of insanity. So your prayers and concern about my destiny are certainly not welcome. When you insist that my business is your business, you actually become the bully & a know-it-all. And you're the one always talking about Big Brother! Doesn't that make you a hypocrite - the guy who drones on with nonsense about personal responsibility and unwelcome intrusion into people's lives? So don't play the victim here. You are an aggressive, arrogant recruiter, with zero interest in anything outside of the confines of a belief system.

September 16th, 2013, 12:25 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10066Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

I.E. - I believe you've gone 'over the top'.

Just my two cents on a couple things.

Science does stick to the realm of the tangible, I agree. But it was science who said numerous things that have since been discredited by even more science. Science, in fact, does more to discredit itself than any religion ever has. Because science often proclaims things to be fact, when in fact they are opinion based on incomplete findings. If science was so absolutely astounding in their ability to explain the tangible, then they would know EXACTLY what killed the dinosaurs, how the pyramids were built, and what makes a tornado do what a tornado does.

And how is someone praying for you a slap in your face? How does it interfere with your life, in any way shape or form? It is a support of his belief system, not an incringement on yours.

You are the hypocrite calling someone else the hypocrite. You claim W4C is pushing his beliefs on you, yet aren't you doing the exact same to him? Aren't you taking every opportunity to slam him and his beliefs in an attempt to sway him from his faith? Aren't you claiming that you 'know it all' by calling his beliefs 'wacko'?

These are arguments that will NEVER be won, and never be lost. You either believe, or you don't.

It's exactly why you don't argue religion or politics. You will never sway the other side to believe as you do.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

September 16th, 2013, 12:48 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

I agree the arguments won't be won or lost here. I do believe that the light of reality shined by science will increasingly squeeze out magical thinking. Who knows, though - maybe we'll discover actual biochemical processes that account for many things that could fall within the realm of what we now call "spirituality" (e.g. things like communications between and influencing people without speaking).

The point you made about science is precisely why it is not appropriate to compare it to a belief system. Science - the scientific method - INTENTIONALLY attempts to discredit itself, to ensure that what it does claim is solid and not in error. That's the whole point about testing a hypothesis & repeating experiments/tests to confirm results. Science isn't defending anything, and is not a system of belief. It is a process that attempts to explain our world - that's it. The process won't allow to have something in a model that relies upon "magic happening". Science doesn't claim to have a complete story about anything - not knowing exactly what killed the dinosaurs doesn't invalidate the mountain of things that we do know about them... and please don't confuse not having precise final answers on some things with not having established a firm framework of knowledge on the subject overall.

Religion, on the other hand, is a rigid system of belief - it rejects change and seeks to only defend its territory. Even in the face of totally convincing evidence (e.g. the makeup of the universe, age of the earth, plate tectonics, prehistoric life, etc.). Some - not all - religion continues to insist on the preposterous, in the face of sound and overwhelming evidence. Warrior's comment about shells on mountains is perfect example of that. It isn't that I'm slamming his beliefs - I'm telling him they've been pre-empted by more information, that is thorough and convincing proof that some things he believes just aren't true (great flood, or for example man riding dinosaurs). He's just flat out wrong - and it isn't about belief, or faith. If I wanted to believe 1 + 1 wasn't 2 ... then I'd be in error.

I disagree that telling a non-believer you're praying for them is harmless. And that isn't just about atheism. Does a Jew or a Muslim want to year a Christian declare that their religion is the right one? Because that's what it means - it certainly doesn't mean "your god is good, and I'll pray to my separate one as well"! Again, I believe it is condescending, and evidence that the prayers believe in their hearts and minds that they are superior or in a superior position. That's why I'm being condescending in return - on purpose. I'm showing how it tastes and feels. And I'm hoping people take it to heart and take their egos down a notch. I look it at like a Jags fan is critiquing my team! lol! Get serious!