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Eelektross is not completely useless. Unlike Electivire, it actually HAS DECENT BULK, no weaknesses, and a good Special Attack stat. It also has Superpower and Grass Knot. FailVire is the one that can't do crap.

Eelektross's Spa is below average these days, even in NU when you have pokes like Gardevoir and Glaceon (who both outspeed it). Heck evern Ampharos has better Spa and Spd than him. Also, Eelektross still finds it hard to switch in even with bulk because he resists 2 types. And even resisting one of those attacks, all the Supercharged birds of the tier don't even care:

He has decent coverage on the special side and makes good use of specs volt switch spam, I'll give him that. But his Atk, which is 115 and pretty good, he has no coverage with. The best you can do is Coil / Dragon Tail / Wild Charge / Superpower and thats walled by Metang, Torkoal, Tangela, etc. Because even with boosts his coverage is very meh. Superpower helped, but its still not great. Especially since he has no recovery and wild charge does damage to him.

And now onto Electivire. His Atk is 8 points higher than the Eels, he has AMAZING coverage through ice punch, eq, and cross chop, his Spa is meh so its not that great, but the main thing is HE IS FAST ENOUGH TO BE A THREAT. Base 95 isn't amazing, but its a hell of a lot better than the Eels. And you were talking about bulk? Electivire actually has a higher SDef than the Eel. And with his coverage, he only has one solid counter in Rotom. He's checked by some scarfers and a few faster threats, but the Eel has more counters, and is checked by nearly every non Trick Room offensive threat in NU. And Eelektross's flagship set is Specs, so once he's locked in he becomes that much easier to beat. So in short, Electivire>Eelektross.

Eelektross's Spa is below average these days, even in NU when you have pokes like Gardevoir and Glaceon (who both outspeed it).
Heck evern Ampharos has better Spa and Spd than him. Also, Eelektross still finds it hard to switch in even with bulk because he resists 2 types. And even resisting one of those attacks, all the Supercharged birds of the tier don't even care:

He has decent coverage on the special side and makes good use of specs volt switch spam, I'll give him that. But his Atk, which is 115 and pretty good, he has no coverage with. The best you can do is Coil / Dragon Tail / Wild Charge / Superpower and thats walled by Metang, Torkoal, Tangela, etc. Because even with boosts his coverage is very meh. Superpower helped, but its still not great. Especially since he has no recovery and wild charge does damage to him.

And now onto Electivire. His Atk is 8 points higher than the Eels, he has AMAZING coverage through ice punch, eq, and cross chop, his Spa is meh so its not that great, but the main thing is HE IS FAST ENOUGH TO BE A THREAT. Base 95 isn't amazing, but its a hell of a lot better than the Eels. And you were talking about bulk? Electivire actually has a higher SDef than the Eel. And with his coverage, he only has one solid counter in Rotom. He's checked by some scarfers and a few faster threats, but the Eel has more counters, and is checked by nearly every non Trick Room offensive threat in NU. And Eelektross's flagship set is Specs, so once he's locked in he becomes that much easier to beat. So in short, Electivire>Eelektross.

That guy who said Eelektross is useless meant OU. In OU, Electivire is completely useless. Eelektross can actually take out some threats Electivire couldn't ever hope of even touching, such as Garchomp(not Choice Band) and Landorus.

Originally Posted by T-Bolt

You don't really get how Ambipom works, do you? How does Mienshao use Fake out better when Ambipom has a Technician+STAB fake out, the strongest fake out among all pokemon? It's speed stat is 10 points above Mienshao's, allowing it to usually use U-turn before the opponent. Continuous Fake Outs and U-Turns wear the opponent's team down, while at the same time giving crucial momentum to the other pokemon on your Volt-turn team, and no other pokemon can replicate the way Ambipom does it.

But the problem is that Mienshao doesn't become a sitting duck after using Fake Out. Ambipom has to run a Jolly nature, but then Double Hit is going to be very weak. It's also a sitting duck against Gligar. You know what stops Fake Out + U-turn? Entry hazards. But guess what, Mienshao has Regenerator.

Hey :3 I use Mienshao over Ambipom. Mostly because Mienshao has Regenerator giving it some decent recovery upon U-Turning and because the STAB high jump kick does nice damage to most things. Just mah 2 cents

I always have my Mienshao with me. It is such a good user of priority with fake out and yep switching out. If you get burned you are kinda screwed though. Usually whenever I try and fake out online it always leads into some stupid hitmontop having eject button. It pisses me off.

Overrated pokemon?

Never been a game without Drizzle Politoed, Scizor, Latios and Kingdra with rain support. Literally all I see on random matchup.

Imo it is stupid to give Politoed drizzle and ninetales drought. Only the gods deserve that power. (Kyogre and Groudon) As a result, this generation is dominated by weather teams.

To be honest, neither Electrivire nor Elektross really deserves a spot in OU. Elektross is disgustingly slow, with only 85/80/80 bulk. Also, it has no way of touching Heatran, unless you're running the rare Drain Punch/Superpower (or if I missed the Focus Blast move under the movepool). Being walled by Heatran is a pretty bad problem,lol.

Also, why is everyone going Garchomp this Garchomp that? It's not like Garchomp is the only threat in OU. Haxorus can still run through Elektross pretty well with Mold Breaker.

Eelektross has a chance at taking on Heatran, especially the specially defensive variant. Electivire will never OHKO Tran without Stealth Rock and gets OHKOed back if SR is on his side of the field. Add the fact that Cross Chop = Stone Miss, and Heatran is yet another Pokemon that can be checked by Eelektross, but not by Lolvire.

I'm not saying Eelektross is good in OU, though. I'm just trying to prove Eelektross is better than FailVire.

Indeed they're NU, but my point is since these pokes' performance are highly overrated, sometimes in a rare occasion we can find them in upper tiers like OU or above. Scarf Solar Power Charizard in a sun team for example, on paper it may look devastating & poweful, but in reality it's sucks balls.

Anyway, Metagross will probably fall into both underrated & overrated category, depends on its moveset.

In the rare time that Pokemons like Charizard and Pikachu do show up in OU it is almost always because the opponent is a newer player who probably only has the most basic understanding of the metagame. Not because people who well..know what they are doing are overrating the usefulness of those Pokemons.

But I agree with you about Metagross. Correct me if I am wrong but Metagross seems to bounce between OU and UU every once in a while kind of like Mew does. Some Metagrosses I just think are just not very good like I really hate the mixed variant and I dont like Stealth Rock variant either...like honestly ew I dont know how it is one of the most common sets for it. But Agility Metagross I have seen to be really good and Choice Band Metagross is real good to so I dont know why it isnt used more especially Agility. I mean with Agility Terrakion the Lati twins Mamoswine even Venusaur are way less of a threat especially if entery hazards are up

Originally Posted by UbersSuck20

Ninjask is overrated. Seriously, Taunt + phazing screws it over.

I dont think Ninjask is overrated by anyone besides new players. I think anyone who has been playing for more than a few months is aware Ninjask is very easily shut down and not worth using in most times

Eelektross has a chance at taking on Heatran, especially the specially defensive variant. Electivire will never OHKO Tran without Stealth Rock and gets OHKOed back if SR is on his side of the field. Add the fact that Cross Chop = Stone Miss, and Heatran is yet another Pokemon that can be checked by Eelektross, but not by Lolvire.

I'm not saying Eelektross is good in OU, though. I'm just trying to prove Eelektross is better than FailVire.

Ninjask is overrated. Seriously, Taunt + phazing screws it over.

Eq OHKO's Tran so all those cross chop calcs don't matter. E-vire beats all Heatran. Its a check, keep in kind, not a counter.

And Ninjask isn't overrated. It can just use Protect +Baton Pass to Espeon. And don't just go and say "The switch to Espeon is very predictable and if your opponent sees it, you can be aware he's not going to spam taunt or a phasing move."(Your own words with the name of the Pokemon and move changed.) And even then, Ninjask doesn't have to be on a baton pass team. He can just pass a speed boost and maybe an SD boost to a team full of sweeper's, and then your taunt is doing nothing (phazing would be good for this situation.) So his sets is predictable, but he can be used in many teams in need of a speed boost (pun intended)

Eelektross has a chance at taking on Heatran, especially the specially defensive variant. Electivire will never OHKO Tran without Stealth Rock and gets OHKOed back if SR is on his side of the field. Add the fact that Cross Chop = Stone Miss, and Heatran is yet another Pokemon that can be checked by Eelektross, but not by Lolvire.

I'm not saying Eelektross is good in OU, though. I'm just trying to prove Eelektross is better than FailVire.

And that's all assuming Eelektross is in perfect health, other than SR damage. Throw in another round of SR damage, and that list grows much larger, and several common OU Pokemon (Latias, Jirachi) just set up on it.

(also, there are probably more I could've add to that list, I was just being lazy).

And Ninjask isn't overrated. It can just use Protect +Baton Pass to Espeon. And don't just go and say "The switch to Espeon is very predictable and if your opponent sees it, you can be aware he's not going to spam taunt or a phasing move."(Your own words with the name of the Pokemon and move changed.) And even then, Ninjask doesn't have to be on a baton pass team. He can just pass a speed boost and maybe an SD boost to a team full of sweeper's, and then your taunt is doing nothing (phazing would be good for this situation.) So his sets is predictable, but he can be used in many teams in need of a speed boost (pun intended)

Bold: Air Balloon would like to have a word with you. But if Heatran is not running Air Balloon, then yes, Failvire can take it out. We have the following chart:

Ice Punch 83.283% | | Earthquake 71.800% |
| Cross Chop 66.775% |
| Wild Charge 52.797% |
EQ was seen on 71% of all electivire in march. I guess noobs are in love with the physical set

As for Failjask, it's screwed over by Prankster users such as Sableye and Whimsicott. Failjask is NU, which means if used in UU or below there will be no Espeon. Prankster users such as Sableye and Whimsicott can take care of it very easily. In OU, hello Scizor. The metal bug can simply spam Bullet Punch to destroy Ninjask, and it will often destroy Espeon too. Mamoswine can also make short work of Ninjask.
Failjask + 5 sweepers is a noob strategy. As you said phazing completely destroys it, and he's incredibly predictable. Remember Gen 4? Yea, we all thought Failjask is a piece of crap. The situation is no different with BW, it's just that now Failjask has Espeon on his side.

And that's all assuming Eelektross is in perfect health, other than SR damage. Throw in another round of SR damage, and that list grows much larger, and several common OU Pokemon (Latias, Jirachi) just set up on it.

(also, there are probably more I could've add to that list, I was just being lazy).

Failvire is even more frail, so all those attacks can OHKO him too. And Earthquake becomes a problem.

Lol guys let's just quit this discussion about Eelektross vs. Vire. Uberssuck is probably aware that both are generally not viable in OU, he just wants to point out Eel is better than Vire. He also stated that a few posts back:

I'm not saying Eelektross is good in OU, though. I'm just trying to prove Eelektross is better than FailVire.

As we all know, if you want an Electric type in OU, use Pikachu Rotom-W or something.

So, I think you guys made your point, and I totally agree that neither Eel or Vire are viable in OU, and I think we all agree on that point. Both are outside the top 100 of OU when looking at usage stats, so neither of them is overrated.

Hydregion, while having several weaknesses and an agonizing 98 base speed stat, has a great Special Attack stat and wide special movepool to back it up with. It is also immune to Psychic, which lets it waltz right in on a predicted Psychic from something like Espeon and Gothitelle and wreck havoc. From my experience, I also find it to be a great Ferrothorn and Skarmory killer. Just bluff with something like Dark Pulse to take any oncoming Protect and then burn them to crisp. I killed so many Ferrothorn that way on PO that it wasn't funny.

Hydregion, while having several weaknesses and an agonizing 98 base speed stat, has a great Special Attack stat and wide special movepool to back it up with. It is also immune to Psychic, which lets it waltz right in on a predicted Psychic from something like Espeon and Gothitelle and wreck havoc. From my experience, I also find it to be a great Ferrothorn and Skarmory killer. Just bluff with something like Dark Pulse to take any oncoming Protect and then burn them to crisp. I killed so many Ferrothorn that way on PO that it wasn't funny.

Well, it's not so much just the special attack, since Latios tends to (in most cases) outclass Hydreigon as a pure special attacker. It's the potential for a mixed set that's most dangerous, since things like Tyranitar and Blissey that would otherwise sponge special attacks certainly don't want to eat those Superpowers. But yeah, the fact that Hydreigon can go mixed or fully special makes Hydreigon more unpredictable. Can't just throw it on a team and expect it to win battles just like that, but it's certainly a threat to watch out for.

SMod, One of the writers for the PotW, and someone you'll be hearing from often if you fail to read the rules

Hydreigon is not outclassed by Latios as a special attacker. Latios is trapped by Tyranitar, Scizor and Weavile(the latter also beats Hydreigon, but it's kinda rare.) Hydreigon can get past Tyranitar with Focus Blast and destroy Scizor with Fire Blast, while also punishing Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory. Hydreigon can also take a hit or two on the physical side(92/90 vs 80/80) and Latios' special bulk isn't much better thanks to his lower HP.

Hydreigon is better as a mixed attacker though, because it needs to get past Heatran without relying on Focus Miss. It needs Superpower and Earthquake.