Yeah, I guess you're right and the NFL records are all wrong. The Packers didn't make it to the playoffs that year.

You can't have it both ways Z2C. Every year teams make it to the playoffs because other teams choked, but that doesn't mean they didn't deserve to. They did what they had to and it worked that year, and in some instances those teams even make it to the Super Bowl.

Nobody cares about the excuses for why some teams make it and some teams don't. That is unless they're trying to make something seem like something different than what it really is.

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Just because a team makes the playoffs doesn't necessarily mean they are a playoff caliber team. That's what this thread is about. It's about looking past the record and looking at the roster. :roll:

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How did they get in the playoffs then?

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lack of talented teams in the NFC North. we got in for being the least shittty.

........Limping into the playoffs is what the 2005 Vikings did in which they lost their last 2 games to Green Bay and Washingon.......

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The Vikings did not make the playoffs in 2005
You must be refering to the Playoffs in 2004. when the Vikings lost their last two regular season games to the Packers and the Redskins.

They "limped" into the playoffs that year?
By the way, I forgot, which team did the "limping" Vikings soundly thrash in the 1st round of the 2004 playoffs?

IMO, Z2C, is just expressing his thoughts with a different perspective.
If you are young Z2C, even if I don't agree with you, I believe that you have some good thoughts.
Dance to the beat of your own drum!

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I'll be 26 in a few days. Suppose I am young

I say its a different perspective if you are saying different than the typical one on this board. And if you do, I take that as a huge compliment. lol

This is one of the most interesting debates I have seen in a long time and a classic example of how different, peoples perspectives can be from the same event and/or outcome of a situation.

Some of the arguements "for and against" by Bruce, Pyle, Z2C etc are really interesting and I can see why many will take either side. The more I read however, the more I think of troms varius quotes on "speculation" and have come to the conclusion that no matter how good this debate is; we will never know the answer as this really is an excellent but "speculative" debate when all is said.

Ted didn't inherit a playoff team. The team was already in demise and the fact that there was little to no depth on that team was the strongest indication. He made a mistake in letting both of the guards go because what he may not have realized is that there wasn't anyone on that team ready to step in and play. The Packers team had become a mess under Mike Sherman. It's even more of a mess now, but it that mess had to be cleaned up. There was no other way.

They "limped" into the playoffs that year?
By the way, I forgot, which team did the "limping" Vikings soundly thrash in the 1st round of the 2004 playoffs?

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Yep 2004 is the year I was referring to. I was more so given an example of a team that limped there way into the playoffs. Last years Steelers were not a team that did that. They won 4 in a row and then 3 on the road to reach the Super Bowl.

Minnesota did thrash Green Bay. That might be putting it lightly. It wasn't pretty. I had a hunch going into the game that the Vikings were going to win. It's tough to beat a team 3 times in one year especially when the previous 2 games were won on last second field goals.

I don't understand the confusion. TT made moves in the off-season last year that had an effect on this team. If they would have improved, I would be backing Teddy right now. Unfortunately they did not, thus I criticize him.

Whatever TT inherited it sure wasn't as bad as it is now. Play devil's advocate all you want about whether this was a playoff team or not because whatever the case it certainly was nowhere near 4-12.

Now, lets have some fun. Let's use the same logic that we used for Sherman for Ted Thompson last year. The Detroit game when Gado was tackled in the end zone should have been a Green Bay loss. Also Seattle rested most of thier starters the last game of last year. So GB finished 2-14 last year.

This brings Ted's all time GM record to 2-15. I will be sure to keep it updated.

I don't understand the confusion. TT made moves in the off-season last year that had an effect on this team. If they would have improved, I would be backing Teddy right now. Unfortunately they did not, thus I criticize him.

Whatever TT inherited it sure wasn't as bad as it is now. Play devil's advocate all you want about whether this was a playoff team or not because whatever the case it certainly was nowhere near 4-12.

Now, lets have some fun. Let's use the same logic that we used for Sherman for Ted Thompson last year. The Detroit game when Gado was tackled in the end zone should have been a Green Bay loss. Also Seattle rested most of thier starters the last game of last year. So GB finished 2-14 last year.

This brings Ted's all time GM record to 2-15. I will be sure to keep it updated.

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Of all the times I have had to read on this board how the Packers were better than 4-12 last year, that is the first time that I have seen it reversed. I totally forgot about the Gado non-safety.

Football more than any sport can be won or loss on any play. One turnover or missed tackle, and then the fans get to say "What if". In the end, your record is your record.

Those two lines are going to confuse those who have no idea what it takes in the NFL to make a team. I don't know it all or how to do it, but I sure am not ignornant enough to think someone can just walk in and suddenly make a team a Super Bowl contender.

On a huge postive side to this. We have a football game to discuss tomorrow afternoon!! I hope its a victory! lol

Those two lines are going to confuse those who have no idea what it takes in the NFL to make a team. I don't know it all or how to do it, but I sure am not ignornant enough to think someone can just walk in and suddenly make a team a Super Bowl contender.

On a huge postive side to this. We have a football game to discuss tomorrow afternoon!! I hope its a victory! lol

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I agree, noone is saying that TT should have came in and made this team a SB contender but to take a BORDERLINE playoff team over and have them go 2-14 the next year is a pretty big dropoff.

My question is this. How do you know if its 2-14 from "rebuilding" or from "just plain bad management"

My question is this. How do you know if its 2-14 from "rebuilding" or from "just plain bad management"

Honestly, I really don't know. My assumption would be if there is no improvement the following year. So far, it's leaning towards bad management. However, its only been one game and we have a new staff.

My question is this. How do you know if its 2-14 from "rebuilding" or from "just plain bad management"

Honestly, I really don't know. My assumption would be if there is no improvement the following year. So far, it's leaning towards bad management. However, its only been one game and we have a new staff.

Problem is we may only know if 3 years and then we'll either be convinced or we'll be asking how we got screwed out of the last 4 seasons! Right now i'm leaning toward the latter but would love to eat crow down the road

Problem is we may only know if 3 years and then we'll either be convinced or we'll be asking how we got screwed out of the last 4 seasons! Right now i'm leaning toward the latter but would love to eat crow down the road

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Well, we were blessed with one of the most dominant teams the last 12 years. So we have four years of knowing whats it like being a Bears, Vikings or Lions fan. That'll jus help us get along better with those fans

While Zero missed the mark on one level - because a team that make the playoffs is a playoff team.

However, if you read carefully he does hit an important point -- TT did not inherit a team! He was hired to manage one as a GM. And as the General Manager his evaluation process started immediately after his hire and continues today.

It is great that he has so many apologists and excuse makers -- unfortunatly they will not help him succeed or fail. TT will be judged like all employees, based upon his performance -- to this point things are not looking good.

While Zero missed the mark on one level - because a team that make the playoffs is a playoff team.

However, if you read carefully he does hit an important point -- TT did not inherit a team! He was hired to manage one as a GM. And as the General Manager his evaluation process started immediately after his hire and continues today.

It is great that he has so many apologists and excuse makers -- unfortunatly they will not help him succeed or fail. TT will be judged like all employees, based upon his performance -- to this point things are not looking good.

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Good point Bruce!

I don't even know what I want anymore. I almost would rather see GB get blown out week after week than go 4-12 or 5-11. I fear that TT will do just enough to hang on by a thread and we will have to endure several more years of his misery. Part of me says lets get this "experiment" over so we can get back to being a competitive football team.I just don't have any faith in TT judging from his moves. Honestly, they just keep getting worse IMO.

While Zero missed the mark on one level - because a team that make the playoffs is a playoff team Maybe someone should clue him into the fact that half of the teams playing in the playoffs season ends each weekend of the Playoffs.

However, if you read carefully he does hit an important point -- TT did not inherit a team! He was hired to manage one as a GM. And as the General Manager his evaluation process started immediately after his hire and continues today.

It is great that he has so many apologists and excuse makers -- unfortunatly they will not help him succeed or fail. TT will be judged like all employees, based upon his performance -- to this point things are not looking good.

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Good point Bruce!

I don't even know what I want anymore. I almost would rather see GB get blown out week after week than go 4-12 or 5-11. I fear that TT will do just enough to hang on by a thread and we will have to endure several more years of his misery. Part of me says lets get this "experiment" over so we can get back to being a competitive football team.I just don't have any faith in TT judging from his moves. Honestly, they just keep getting worse IMO.

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Just out of curiousity, and this is in no way a means of making a point, what did you think of Sherman as a GM?

While Zero missed the mark on one level - because a team that make the playoffs is a playoff team.

However, if you read carefully he does hit an important point -- TT did not inherit a team! He was hired to manage one as a GM. And as the General Manager his evaluation process started immediately after his hire and continues today.

It is great that he has so many apologists and excuse makers -- unfortunatly they will not help him succeed or fail. TT will be judged like all employees, based upon his performance -- to this point things are not looking good.

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saying it doesn't look good is an understatement. It looks freaking awful.

We like to dis the 'main media' for knocking on the Packers, look at what the Packers did to shut them up.