Ropey wrote:If you think mercs can compete in the arena you need a reality check. Even with yuni left alone their support network just falls to returns and powerful attacks that are as quick or quicker than them. You would need to field amazon as well just to force agi rolls!

^This. While you're at it, you can easily add Sea Serpent and maybe Vosrot to the list as well. Don't mistake these comments, this by no means claims they're broken in any way, it just proves a point. Though Monk probably should have a Rng limit, but that's not the issue here.

In fact, what I'd really like to know in this day and age now is: what is a Gowen thing?

Attack grims? Nope. Not anymore.

Falkow's got Black Storm and Eldritch hands, and always has had tempest and thunderheads (albeit waaay overcosted in both cases). It also has direct damage on open from lightning wyvern, and AoE damage from it as well. Not controllable, but, there it nevertheless, is.

Lawtia always has had good attack grims. Pure terror. Criminal edge. Now tears of blood. And I suppose you can call Overdose such a case as well. Oh, and the second effect of deathmaker, and sacrifice if you want to look at it that way.

Refess is so good with attacking grims now that it shares that trait with Gowen with Flames of Judgment. But...Hand of God, Judgment Hammer, magic bolt (and even unit support for it that fetches it back). And oh yeah, burning sun.

In the meantime, two of the other spheres have amazing effects with their non-damage grims (Falkow's returns, Lawt's SP drains) and Refess has general orders, sunbeam cage, key to the holy realm, and mirror of light).

In the meantime, Gowen used to be the "hit you harder and faster" sphere, back when SKs were pretty much a joke (oh hey look, two balls of flame, there goes the game), as were Carbuncles, who didn't yet have Diamond, Agate, Amethyst, or Jade (or amethyst eater). Oh yeah, and no OPsidian. And the only way to really do as much damage as Gowen was with pegasus WK, which, admittedly, was an absolutely amazing file, back when you could set it up on the back of a 60 HP elite (even 50 HP would work. Heck, even 41!)

Basically, the real question is: what the hell has Gowen gotten since pixies? The two Dilates, Jack, explosive wyvern, and flames of judgment. In the meantime, it's gotten nerfed on...well, just about everything it used to have in sets 5-8.

Ropey wrote:If you think mercs can compete in the arena you need a reality check. Even with yuni left alone their support network just falls to returns and powerful attacks that are as quick or quicker than them. You would need to field amazon as well just to force agi rolls!

I didn't say they are meta, but i do claim Yuni is good.

Are you also going to tell me there isn't half a dozen gowen cards better than her that are not 5 star? Off top of my head Dandan? Volc Wyvern?

Yuni is mean't to be a 5 STAR CARD! Compare her to bringer and dilate then tell me which one you would choose? The testing team did a right stitch up on her. God only knows why? Rom has closed his thread cos the heat got to much for him, sorry Rom, but what did you expect?

Well, overdose, black storm, and judgement hammer are grims out of gowen that are way better than any comparable gowen counterpart. Maybe even hog. Idk why those were put out.You know the only thing that has specifically stayed in one sphere is returns. No other sphere can you find that. And lawtia with the send closed to cem.

Icyman2 wrote:Well, overdose, black storm, and judgement hammer are grims out of gowen that are way better than any comparable gowen counterpart. Maybe even hog. Idk why those were put out.You know the only thing that has specifically stayed in one sphere is returns. No other sphere can you find that. And lawtia with the send closed to cem.

You're more correct about Lawtia than you may think. There's a reason that Lawtia is just one reliable free reviver away from wrecking everyone again. When they had MD augment at full steam, a Lawtia rush could beat just about any file in the game if you had the precognition to keep just the right amount of SP open to hit death's embrace+bitter destiny--which swung games far harder than a couple of returns ever did.

No surprise that some people are whining over it.

Death's embrace and Bitter Destiny are actually Lawtia's answer to returns--they both serve the same purpose--decrease the SP in circulation so that the field would remain on a low unit count in which free revivers and speedy hitters with cheap abilities would rule the day, rather than bigger units or tribal shenanigans.