jjorsett:I propose a spate of postal service vehicle thefts and vandalism, followed by the states and cities saying, "Sorry, that's a federal problem."

Sure, they could say that but then the citizens of those cities and states might get upset when their cars are stolen or vandalized by people who were let go when caught by the local cops screwing around with postal vehicles.

louiedog:Why do you need to employ scary looking people if it's already a high crime area? I was stopped at a red light in a very bad neighborhood that I had to visit for work. A man with no shirt stepped off the curb, picked up a piece of brick, and crossed in front of me even though I was the 5th or 6th car back, all without breaking eye contact. I don't think that he'd ever collected a paycheck in his life.

The companies that put them in have been caught shortening the time of the yellow lights so that more people run red lights, so they can issue more tickets.

Total scam.

I really think that there ought to be a legal difference between "clipping" and "running" the red. If you honestly don't think you can stop in time, take the .3 seconds at the front of the red and just go (esp. if there's ice or similar). There's no one going through the intersection and I can wait (This is the entire point of the Michigan pause). Now if you run the light (ie the lights been red), you get what's coming to you.

/Moved from MI where they're illegal, to SF where they're on every single street corner.//Haven't been rear-ended yet when I slam to a screeching halt, but it's been close.

If you're screeching to a halt at any time, you're not paying attention. I've been driving here for 25 years, and I could probably come up with another 25 intersections that need them, just off the top of my head.

What gets me is that, for the longest time, I just knew it as a joke from a song. But I recently spent a week in Cleveland, and every morning I'd throw on the local news and hear about a new dead body in East Cleveland. My personal favorite was one girl murdered another because the other had been teasing her about her flatulence.

muddythinker:The fact that the USPS is a quasi governmental organization screws the consumer. For example, suppose you mail a package, insure it, and it's damaged. The Postal Service has various exceptions to its damage rules, such as if the package exterior is not damaged you cannot collect.How is one supposed to know this? Now if you are UPS you have to give notice to a consumer about the terms of the insurance. But the USPS does not have to, because it is a governmental entity and judges have ruled that consumers are obligated to know these federal regulations, just like you are supposed to "know" the tax code. Somewhere buried deep in the Code of Federal Regulations you'll find this crap, and the Postal Service uses these hidden rules to screw consumers.

LibertyHiller:If you're screeching to a halt at any time, you're not paying attention. I've been driving here for 25 years, and I could probably come up with another 25 intersections that need them, just off the top of my head.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x323]Guy: In response to your picture of my car, here is a picture of my check.

[ladyarse.co.uk image 768x523]

Police: In response to your picture of a check, here is a picture of my handcuffs.

Guy: I'll pay the fine.

Funny, and I'm not sure if each state defines what "running a red light" means on their own, but in Florida if you are beyond the stop line at an intersection before the light changes to red then you aren't running a red light. In other words, that guy was innocent in Florida.

ha-ha-guy:darwinpolice: shiat, have you ever been to East Cleveland? I don't stop at red lights there, either.

GM had the Detroit Police come out and give us a safety briefing, since we have some facilities in Detroit. The focus was on going in late at night or early in the morning. The cop told everyone "Unless you want to get car jacked, rolling stops only in these areas." One engineer asked "Well what if we get pulled over, can we tell the officer you told us not to stop." The cop's response was "If someone tries to pull you over, keep going, because we don't go into those areas at night."

/we also a young female engineer who was outraged over the unofficial company policy to only send male engineers to those facilities during certain hours. If you have to get an engineer into the plant for some reason, call a guy.//the older female engineers took her aside and explained that while there is gender equality, there is also gang rape

Yay, CSB time!I got the same line from my buddy's dad who was a cop for Inkster PD. He told us about the areas in Inkster through Detroit where stopping is optional at night and that frankly, the likelihood of getting stopped for running a red in those neighborhoods was near zero. He urged us to only slow down enough make sure there is no traffic coming but not so much that somebody could run up and open the door.

My dad used to work nights at a plant in Hamtramck and would take Cass in to the plant. He said there are multiple instances were he genuinely feared for his life on his way to/from work. I always wondered why he drove large late-70s tanks for his 'work car'.

ha-ha-guy:darwinpolice: shiat, have you ever been to East Cleveland? I don't stop at red lights there, either.

GM had the Detroit Police come out and give us a safety briefing, since we have some facilities in Detroit. The focus was on going in late at night or early in the morning. The cop told everyone "Unless you want to get car jacked, rolling stops only in these areas." One engineer asked "Well what if we get pulled over, can we tell the officer you told us not to stop." The cop's response was "If someone tries to pull you over, keep going, because we don't go into those areas at night."

/we also a young female engineer who was outraged over the unofficial company policy to only send male engineers to those facilities during certain hours. If you have to get an engineer into the plant for some reason, call a guy.//the older female engineers took her aside and explained that while there is gender equality, there is also gang rape

I'll bet FedEx and UPS wish they had the same immunity. Every FedEx/UPS truck I see driving around NYC has at least half a dozen parking tickets stuck under the wiper, and those tickets range from $65~$115 each.

EngineerAU:jjorsett: I propose a spate of postal service vehicle thefts and vandalism, followed by the states and cities saying, "Sorry, that's a federal problem."

Sure, they could say that but then the citizens of those cities and states might get upset when their cars are stolen or vandalized by people who were let go when caught by the local cops screwing around with postal vehicles.

The cops don't have to do it. Just a friendly, "We don't enforce the law when it comes to postal vehicles" is all it would take in most areas. Chaos lurks just beneath the veneer of civilization.

Dman33:My dad used to work nights at a plant in Hamtramck and would take Cass in to the plant. He said there are multiple instances were he genuinely feared for his life on his way to/from work. I always wondered why he drove large late-70s tanks for his 'work car'.

Hamtramck was definitely the worst of all the plants out there. Even Flint and Saginaw weren't as bad. We kept a rusted out compact up at the technical center. If you had to go to Hamtramck after hours you left your car at the tech center and went in with the crap car and a big ugly XXL jacket on to hide any nice clothes you might be wearing. That car looked like crap but the power train was kept in pristine condition, because you absolutely did not want that car dying on you.

/it's pointless to carry a weapon//I've been mugged twice, each time it was at least four people with multiple guns visible on their persons, hauling out my CCW would have just ensured I lost my wallet and ended up with some bullet holes in me

ha-ha-guy:Dman33: My dad used to work nights at a plant in Hamtramck and would take Cass in to the plant. He said there are multiple instances were he genuinely feared for his life on his way to/from work. I always wondered why he drove large late-70s tanks for his 'work car'.

Hamtramck was definitely the worst of all the plants out there. Even Flint and Saginaw weren't as bad. We kept a rusted out compact up at the technical center. If you had to go to Hamtramck after hours you left your car at the tech center and went in with the crap car and a big ugly XXL jacket on to hide any nice clothes you might be wearing. That car looked like crap but the power train was kept in pristine condition, because you absolutely did not want that car dying on you.

/it's pointless to carry a weapon//I've been mugged twice, each time it was at least four people with multiple guns visible on their persons, hauling out my CCW would have just ensured I lost my wallet and ended up with some bullet holes in me

Partially related: I worked with a guy that got mugged in Flint. He didn't have any money on him so the loss of his wallet was more of an inconvenience. What really hurt was that they took his custom HK USP .40 he was carrying worth about $1k.

Concealed weapons are surprisingly ineffective against weapons that are already in your face.

"The Postal Service requires its employees to obey all traffic laws and rules while operating Postal Service vehicles. However, the state and/or local ordinances imposing penalties and fines cannot be enforced as against the Postal Service."

If there is no penalty for disobeying then it's not required. It's suggested.

"I was unaware that the Post Office doesn't have to stop at red lights or obey the speed limit," he said. "But since they are..."

Wardrobe_Malfunction:I'll bet FedEx and UPS wish they had the same immunity. Every FedEx/UPS truck I see driving around NYC has at least half a dozen parking tickets stuck under the wiper, and those tickets range from $65~$115 each.

The police follow them around in NYC and SF just to ticket them... brings in millions of dollars in fines.. UPS and Fed Ex just eats the fine and pass it on to all of us

A local news investigation has found that the city of Dallas, Texas depends upon short yellow timing to maximize red light camera profit. Of the ten cameras that issue the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven are located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), KDFW-TV found.

The city's second highest revenue producing camera, for example, is located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leadding up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket producing intersection's yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. The yellow is .35 seconds shorter than TxDOT's recommended bare minimum.

"For 30 miles per hour, if your yellow time was less than three and a half, you would not be giving that driver enough time to react and brake and stop prior to getting to the intersection," TxDOT Dallas District office transportation engineer supervisor Chris Blain told KDFW.

A small change in signal timing can have a great effect on the number of tickets issued. About four out of every five red light camera citations are issued before even a second has elapsed after the light changed to red, according to a report by the California State Auditor. This suggests that most citations are issued to those surprised by a quick-changing signal light. Confidential documents obtained in a 2001 court trial proved that the city of San Diego, California and its red light camera vendor, now ACS, only installed red light cameras at intersections with high volumes and "Amber (yellow) phase less than 4 seconds."

Dallas likewise installed the cameras at locations with existing short yellow times. A total of twenty-one camera intersections in Dallas have yellow times below TxDOT's bare minimum recommended amount. The Texas Transportation Institute study also found that shorter yellows generate a 110 percent jump in the number of tickets, but at the cost of safety. Increasing the yellow one second above the recommended minimum cut crashes by 40 percent.

Since the Dallas intersection ticketing program launched last December, it has issued $13.5 million worth of automated citations from sixty camera locations. Beginning in September, however, Texas cities must split camera ticket profit with the state. To make up for lost revenue, Dallas plans to install forty more cameras. View KDFW's signal timing chart, a 44k PDF file.

A local news investigation has found that the city of Dallas, Texas depends upon short yellow timing to maximize red light camera profit. Of the ten cameras that issue the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven are located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), KDFW-TV found.

The city's second highest revenue producing camera, for example, is located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leadding up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket producing intersection's yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. The yellow is .35 seconds shorter than TxDOT's recommended bare minimum.

"For 30 miles per hour, if your yellow time was less than three and a half, you would not be giving that driver enough time to react and brake and stop prior to getting to the intersection," TxDOT Dallas District office transportation engineer supervisor Chris Blain told KDFW.

A small change in signal timing can have a great effect on the number of tickets issued. About four out of every five red light camera citations are issued before even a second has elapsed after the light changed to red, according to a report by the California State Auditor. This suggests that most citations are issued to those surprised by a quick-changing signal light. Confidential documents obtained in a 2001 court trial proved that the city of San Diego, California and its red light camera vendor, now ACS, only installed red light cameras at intersections with high volumes and "Amber (yellow) phase less than 4 seconds."

Dallas likewise installed the cameras at locations with existing short yellow times. A total of twenty-one camera intersections in Dallas have yellow times below TxDOT's bare minimum recommended amount. The Texas Transportation Institute study also found that shorter yellows generate a 110 percent jump in the number of tickets, but at the cost of safety. Increasing the yellow one second above the recommended minimum cut crashes by 40 percent.

Since the Dallas intersection ticketing program launched last December, it has issued $13.5 million worth of automated citations from sixty camera locations. Beginning in September, however, Texas cities must split camera ticket profit with the state. To make up for lost revenue, Dallas plans to install forty more cameras. View KDFW's signal timing chart, a 44k PDF file.

Still waiting for citation of "caught shortening the time of the yellow lights so that more people run red lights." That is far from choosing to install them at intersections where yellow times are already short.

Also, do you know how the internet works? There are these nifty things called hyperlinks....

Precision Boobery:"The Postal Service requires its employees to obey all traffic laws and rules while operating Postal Service vehicles. However, the state and/or local ordinances imposing penalties and fines cannot be enforced as against the Postal Service."

If there is no penalty for disobeying then it's not required. It's suggested.

"I was unaware that the Post Office doesn't have to stop at red lights or obey the speed limit," he said. "But since they are..."

They speak English in East Cleveland?

The proposed new Post Office Motto also fails at grammar: Neither snow, nor rain, nor heat, nor gloom of night, nor traffic lights stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.

w00ty: right. just like how a cop can rear end cars at 100 mph with their light bars off.

Yeah a cop pulled out at night with no lights ( no headlights etc) and got t boned by our network admin. cop swore his lights were on as well as blue lights responding. They gave him a ticket and threatened to jail him. They claimed they had witnesses etc.Network admin took his lumps that night and took it to court. Cops tried to rough him up and at trial tacked on more charges and brought the witnesses. Network admin let them all testify and then pulled out his laptop with the dashcam video from his car as well as from the police car. Video the PD claimed didn't existed because the car didn't have an active camera.He got enough out of them to buy a nice new car. The judge dismissed the case and when he left was screaming at everyone.

/don't lie about your mistakes//don't do it to someone who knows more about computers than you///don't do it to the brother of the county it dept who can find out the truth and crucify you with it

aseras:w00ty: right. just like how a cop can rear end cars at 100 mph with their light bars off.

Yeah a cop pulled out at night with no lights ( no headlights etc) and got t boned by our network admin. cop swore his lights were on as well as blue lights responding. They gave him a ticket and threatened to jail him. They claimed they had witnesses etc.Network admin took his lumps that night and took it to court. Cops tried to rough him up and at trial tacked on more charges and brought the witnesses. Network admin let them all testify and then pulled out his laptop with the dashcam video from his car as well as from the police car. Video the PD claimed didn't existed because the car didn't have an active camera.He got enough out of them to buy a nice new car. The judge dismissed the case and when he left was screaming at everyone.

/don't lie about your mistakes//don't do it to someone who knows more about computers than you///don't do it to the brother of the county it dept who can find out the truth and crucify you with it

Yep, going Russian style with the dashcams is the best way to go to cover your ass these days.

I spoke with my mailman awhile back, when I saw a couple police cruisers parked by the mail van, and the cops talking to him. He said that the police were canvassing the area looking for a missing child. He said it was funny, because the police are generally under instructions not to approach a mail van or letter carrier. That struck me as a bit odd at the time.

This is because photo enforcement isn't against a driver committing an offense but against the owner of a vehicle that the owner of an automatic camera claims was used in an offense. In this case the owner of the vehicle is a federal agency which has sovereign immunity.

Photo enforcement is stupid and probably unconstitutional against anyone because it really is not the same thing as being stopped by a police officer.

A local news investigation has found that the city of Dallas, Texas depends upon short yellow timing to maximize red light camera profit. Of the ten cameras that issue the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven are located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), KDFW-TV found.

The city's second highest revenue producing camera, for example, is located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leadding up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket producing intersection's yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. The yellow is .35 seconds shorter than TxDOT's recommended bare minimum.

"For 30 miles per hour, if your yellow time was less than three and a half, you would not be giving that driver enough time to react and brake and stop prior to getting to the intersection," TxDOT Dallas District office transportation engineer supervisor Chris Blain told KDFW.

A small change in signal timing can have a great effect on the number of tickets issued. About four out of every five red light camera citations are issued before even a second has elapsed after the light changed to red, according to a report by the California State Auditor. This suggests that most citations are issued to those surprised by a quick-changing signal ...

Apparently you don't know how the internet works either or you would just google that easily found info yourself.

A local news investigation has found that the city of Dallas, Texas depends upon short yellow timing to maximize red light camera profit. Of the ten cameras that issue the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven are located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), KDFW-TV found.

The city's second highest revenue producing camera, for example, is located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leadding up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket producing intersection's yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. The yellow is .35 seconds shorter than TxDOT's recommended bare minimum.

"For 30 miles per hour, if your yellow time was less than three and a half, you would not be giving that driver enough time to react and brake and stop prior to getting to the intersection," TxDOT Dallas District office transportation engineer supervisor Chris Blain told KDFW.

A small change in signal timing can have a great effect on the number of tickets issued. About four out of every five red light camera citations are issued before even a second has elapsed after the light changed to red, according to a report by the California State Auditor. This suggests that most citations are issued to those surprised by a quick-changing signal ...

Apparently you don't know how the internet works either or you would just google that easily found info yourself.

Sorry, pal, but nobody has posted the citation I requested. I guess you can't use google then because you didn't post it either. Deuche.

A local news investigation has found that the city of Dallas, Texas depends upon short yellow timing to maximize red light camera profit. Of the ten cameras that issue the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven are located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), KDFW-TV found.

The city's second highest revenue producing camera, for example, is located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leadding up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket producing intersection's yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. The yellow is .35 seconds shorter than TxDOT's recommended bare minimum.

"For 30 miles per hour, if your yellow time was less than three and a half, you would not be giving that driver enough time to react and brake and stop prior to getting to the intersection," TxDOT Dallas District office transportation engineer supervisor Chris Blain told KDFW.

A small change in signal timing can have a great effect on the number of tickets issued. About four out of every five red light camera citations are issued before even a second has elapsed after the light changed to red, according to a report by the California State Auditor. This suggests that most citations are ...

I guess we can add spelling to the things that you have difficulty with then either.

Why would I possibly look such an easily verifiable fact for someone who is whiteknighting thered light camera companies. You're a shill, and it doesn't matter what info I present to you, you'll never change.

A local news investigation has found that the city of Dallas, Texas depends upon short yellow timing to maximize red light camera profit. Of the ten cameras that issue the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven are located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), KDFW-TV found.

The city's second highest revenue producing camera, for example, is located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leadding up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket producing intersection's yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. The yellow is .35 seconds shorter than TxDOT's recommended bare minimum.

"For 30 miles per hour, if your yellow time was less than three and a half, you would not be giving that driver enough time to react and brake and stop prior to getting to the intersection," TxDOT Dallas District office transportation engineer supervisor Chris Blain told KDFW.

A small change in signal timing can have a great effect on the number of tickets issued. About four out of every five red light camera citations are issued before even a second has elapsed after the light changed to red, according to a report by the California State Auditor. This suggests that most citations are ...

I guess we can add spelling to the things that you have difficulty with then either.

Why would I possibly look such an easily verifiable fact for someone who is whiteknighting thered light camera companies. You're a shill, and it doesn't matter what info I present to you, you'll never change.

Still waiting for evidence of this:

"The companies that put them in have been caught shortening the time of the yellow lights so that more people run red lights, so they can issue more tickets."