Honestly, I don’t have a problem with what he said; I WANT a guy who thinks he is the shiznit!

bostondreamsJuly 15, 2008, 9:09 am

I’m with BD on this one. It’s what makes him a great closer, and it’s not as if he said Mariano sucks, or that Rivera has no legitimate claim on closing the ASG.
Oh well. I guess the love affair between Yankee fans and Jonathan Papelbon is over…

Paul SFJuly 15, 2008, 9:25 am

Man. I love this kid. Really I do. It wouldn’t matter who it was…the really thinks the ball should go to him, no matter what. And really, he’s Tito’s guy. It’s probably going to. Or, Tito does the smart thing, and lets Mariano pitch four innings somewhere in the middle:)

BradJuly 15, 2008, 9:50 am

Also, that shirt (dancing with woman) is just off the chart.

BradJuly 15, 2008, 9:51 am

Wtf? According to Sportscenter (I’m home sick today) they have Papelbon as saying: “Mariano should close”

AtheoseJuly 15, 2008, 10:01 am

Oh I know I don’t think it’s horrifying or shocking or outrageous. He just took the cake for the most stupid thing said on media day. And if the size of his ass is any indicator, he should lay off cake.
Meanwhile, I love how both Youkilis and Francona were fitting themselves for pinstripes yesterday. Neither would shock me if they one day wore them. You know after Boggs and Clemens then Damon, none of those moves eastward are. Mike Stanley hurt though – just a bit.
But we’ll see tonight. Can Tito handle the heat and make a controversial f-u move? Or will he play it classy?

A YFJuly 15, 2008, 10:05 am

“According to Sportscenter (I’m home sick today) they have Papelbon as saying: “Mariano should close”
Yeah, well after the 50 min session with a hoard, he took only Edes aside and clarified himself.
I love Belth’s take this morning.

A YFJuly 15, 2008, 10:07 am

What makes you think that, A? Because they were being gracious to the hosts?

BradJuly 15, 2008, 10:15 am

Really, the whole point is moot anyhow. The AL is going to win on a JD Drew walk-off HR, so there won’t be any save situation.

AnonymousJuly 15, 2008, 10:19 am

Dangit. That was me, for the record, for when my prediction bears out.

The only thing sweeter than that would be for Mo to get the call, put the first two on, and Pap to clean it up for him.

BradJuly 15, 2008, 10:38 am

Hehe

AtheoseJuly 15, 2008, 10:44 am

Well FSP, since you made your claim I’ll make mine: the NL will win, so neither Paps nor Mo will get a chance to close out the game.

AtheoseJuly 15, 2008, 10:45 am

I am not a real sappy or sentimental guy. I am also not going to get all up in a roar over his comments. What bothers me more is the comments of the Sox fans here. If Fenway was closing and say Joba made the same comments, Boston fans would be in an uproar. It’s the final All-Star game in Yankee Stadium and it would be nice to see Mariano out there for the final outs. That’s all.

John - YFJuly 15, 2008, 10:48 am

It’s the final All-Star game in Yankee Stadium and it would be nice to see Mariano out there for the final outs. That’s all.
John, I for one think you are right on this one, it is why, a few days ago, I stated my opinion that the idea of Mariano starting the game was a completely idiotic one.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 10:58 am

John, I’m on record (in the HRD gamer from last night) that Mo should close it out. Not only because it’s Yankee Stadium closing but because Mo is the best this year. It’s a no-brainer, and Tito would be showing bias (unreasonable bias) to send Paps out for the 9th. Can you imagine the boo’ing there would be if Papelbon came in to close the game?

AtheoseJuly 15, 2008, 11:02 am

I second John’s comment. Rivera is above this nonsense. Paps is no Mo. Not now, not ever.

kruegJuly 15, 2008, 11:18 am

Varitek took it on the chin last night. I was there for the “Workout” portion of the night and he took BP with his stats on the board…the fans were unrelenting.
Papi took BP yesterday as well. He was hitting BOMBS even with the brace on his wrist. He also took some balls at 1B.
Pedroia and Nate McLouth are almost exactly the same size, tiny. When they stand next to their teammates they look like bat boys. Maybe next year we can sign them up for a no holds barred cage match as phase 3 of “Workout Day.”
I have some photos, I will post them after tonight’s game hopefully. I am sure to get some good ones tonight.

John - YFJuly 15, 2008, 11:25 am

Thanks for the info John…I’m expecting boo’s of epic proportions tonight. Seems like Francona and Papelbon will get the biggest after this stupidity!!!

kruegJuly 15, 2008, 11:29 am

Varitek took it on the chin last night. I was there for the “Workout” portion of the night and he took BP with his stats on the board…the fans were unrelenting.
So you are disappointed by the SFs in this thread (even though at least half of them agree with you), but the treatment of Tek doesn’t even register as anything but acceptable, conveyed as matter-of-fact information? Not sure I think this is very fair, John.
I can’t imagine booing a Yankee at an ASG in Fenway, under any circumstances, though I am sure there are plenty of SFs who would, to their detriment. I have a hard time booing players in general, even if I dislike them, much less spending the energy doing so at a celebratory exhibition game.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 11:40 am

Seems like Francona and Papelbon will get the biggest after this stupidity!!!
Did I miss something? What did Tito do?

SFJuly 15, 2008, 11:40 am

SF: Francona should have just come out and said that of course Mo will close. He put Jeter batting second and said he deserved it…does Mo not deserve to close? It’s a no brainer. Not picking a fight but come on…Francona dropped the ball on this one. I can at least understand Paps trying to be a bad-ass, he’s young. But Francona has always shown nothing but class in his words and actions and it seems to me (and many others) he messed this up. I have to believe Mo will close no matter what, so just say it, right?

kruegJuly 15, 2008, 11:49 am

“I can’t imagine booing a Yankee at an ASG in Fenway, under any circumstances, though I am sure there are plenty of SFs who would, to their detriment.”
Yeah, right. Posada gets picked by his manager while hitting .220 and you’re just going to sit there? In the last year of Fenway?
Meanwhile, you’re drawing a false comparison. Mo deserves the 9th for many, many reasons. Varitek doesn’t belong in the park for one specific reason (hint: He sucks).

A YFJuly 15, 2008, 11:51 am

Chase Utley knows how to deal with boos during a celebratory exhibition event.

Krueg, I gotta say that picking on Tito here is pretty weak. Obviously from this post I think what Paps said was, well, stupid. Paps seems, historically, to be kind of stupid. So no surprise, right? But putting Tito in the same box with Papelbon seems pretty darn unfair. Why is there a big need for declarative statements from the manager on this issue? Does Mo need the gratification? Yankee fans? Tito knows exactly what he should do, and has said as much in the past week. What more does he have to do, wear a “Rivera” shirt in the dugout?
Pick on Paps, I have no beef, but I don’t think Francona deserves any ire.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 11:59 am

Krueg:
The players picked Varitek, you are correct.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 11:59 am

A YF said
> Posada gets picked by his manager
Your analogy is wrong. Tek was picked by the players, not Tito.

attackgerbilJuly 15, 2008, 12:00 pm

Oh, and Krueg, should I not be capitalizing the “k” in your handle? I realize I keep doing this, want to make sure that your lower-case use is intentional and not an internet shortcut. Lemme know, I will do accordingly, want to get it right.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 12:01 pm

> I can’t imagine booing a Yankee at an ASG in Fenway, under any circumstances, though I am sure there are plenty of SFs who would, to their detriment.
I feel the same about a parallel scenario with a Sox at an ASG in the Bronx. But Papi simply walked across part of the field during the derby last night and the Stadium went into an uproar of boos, so there you have it.

attackgerbilJuly 15, 2008, 12:04 pm

“Your analogy is wrong. Tek was picked by the players, not Tito.”
Right, meh.
CORRECTED:
Posada gets picked by the players while hitting .220 and you’re just going to sit there? In the last year of Fenway?
Meanwhile, you’re drawing a false comparison. Mo deserves the 9th for many, many reasons. Varitek doesn’t belong in the park for one specific reason (hint: He sucks).

A YFJuly 15, 2008, 12:05 pm

If Fenway was closing and say Joba made the same comments, Boston fans would be in an uproar.
So if Joba said this about Papelbon, we’d be “in an uproar”:“We have a great relationship, just from the fact that we understand each other and have that mutual respect for each other. I’ve always referred to him as ‘The Godfather.’ He’s the godfather of closers. He obviously has done a lot of great things for this role. He’s done so much to make this role what it is today. I have a lot of respect for him, from that aspect.
“I’m a big believer in paying your dues. If I have to step aside for an elder statesman, I’ll do it.
“At the same time, I’m going after it. There’s no question about it. One day, I might surpass him. If I said I didn’t want to do that, I’d be questioning myself, my own character.”
Never mind the unprovability of the original assertion about Sox fans, and the not-so-nice things it implies, I truly don’t find the above comments — when printed in full and not stripped of context — very offensive.

Paul SFJuly 15, 2008, 12:08 pm

I feel the same about a parallel scenario with a Sox at an ASG in the Bronx. But Papi simply walked across part of the field during the derby last night and the Stadium went into an uproar of boos, so there you have it.
Thinking about this a little further, the majority of players/sports figures I have booed can be summarized thusly:
– any Montreal Canadien during the late 1970s and 80s and Ulf Samuelsson, always. (hey, I was a teenager and hockey is a bloodsport)
– bad referees or umpires, in general, and to this day
I don’t boo Yankees anywhere, even at Fenway (ask YF, he’s been to several games with me there)

SFJuly 15, 2008, 12:11 pm

> when printed in full and not stripped of context
Exactly, Paul. I don’t have a problem with what Papelbon said. He gave a 50-minute interview, and we got a couple phrases laid bare of framing with express intent of the reporters to try and manufacture a controversy where there just really isn’t one. At all.

attackgerbilJuly 15, 2008, 12:15 pm

> bad referees or umpires
Why be redundant?

attackgerbilJuly 15, 2008, 12:18 pm

Just differentiating sports, Gerb. How about “in-game officials”?

SFJuly 15, 2008, 12:20 pm

> differentiating sports
That part I got. Just didn’t know you needed to say “bad”.

attackgerbilJuly 15, 2008, 12:23 pm

SF: the little “k” is just laziness…doesn’t really matter.
The reality of the situation is that Francona is managing the AL team in Yankee Stadium. In NYC. Everyone knows that every word is put under a micropscope. It just would have been a proper show of respect to say that Mo would close. It’s a no brainer for all, even Francona I’m sure. Mo has earned the right. I take more offense to Papelbon trying to say he was better than Mo and should close but he rightfully has backed off that statement. It just seems Francona could have avoided this whole thing by just acknowledging the obvious. I definitely have the upmost respect for Francona and am not comparing the two but Francona does play a part in this in my opinion.

kruegJuly 15, 2008, 12:57 pm

“What bothers me more is the comments of the Sox fans here.” – John – YF
“So you are disappointed by the SFs in this thread (even though at least half of them agree with you)” – SF
Hmmmm, not sure where I said I was disappointed. I am also confused because I can’t find this “half of them” you speak of.
At the point at which I made my comment, here were the comments made:
“Honestly, I don’t have a problem with what he said; I WANT a guy who thinks he is the shiznit!”
”
“I’m with BD on this one. It’s what makes him a great closer, and it’s not as if he said Mariano sucks, or that Rivera has no legitimate claim on closing the ASG.
Oh well. I guess the love affair between Yankee fans and Jonathan Papelbon is over…”
“Man. I love this kid. Really I do. It wouldn’t matter who it was…the really thinks the ball should go to him, no matter what. And really, he’s Tito’s guy. It’s probably going to. Or, Tito does the smart thing, and lets Mariano pitch four innings somewhere in the middle:)”
“The only thing sweeter than that would be for Mo to get the call, put the first two on, and Pap to clean it up for him.”
Those are all the comments made by Sox fans related to the topic PRIOR to my comment. I was not a Math major, but I am fairly certain 100% of the comments were in support of Papelbons statement.
“but the treatment of Tek doesn’t even register as anything but acceptable, conveyed as matter-of-fact information? Not sure I think this is very fair, John.” – SF
“Varitek took it on the chin last night. I was there for the “Workout” portion of the night and he took BP with his stats on the board…the fans were unrelenting.” – John – YF
Not sure where I showed any support or stated what they did was acceptable. I was merely passing along information. If you think it was matter of fact, so be it, but I was in no way saying I support booing players at the ASG. I was not one of them and I will not be one of them.
Seems to me like you are looking for something to argue about here SF, but really I have given you no ammo to do so.

John - YFJuly 15, 2008, 12:59 pm

On the whole Boo-ing thing…I love to Boo. Boo the Sox, Boo the Maple Pukes, Boo the Jets…it’s fun. But of course there is a big difference between a good, old-fashioned boo-ing and screaming profanity at a player or fan. There is a difference, no?

kruegJuly 15, 2008, 1:01 pm

Well done, well done. *golf clap*

LarJuly 15, 2008, 1:01 pm

(Well dones refering to the ag/SF exchange about umpires..)

LarJuly 15, 2008, 1:01 pm

So if Joba said this about Papelbon, we’d be “in an uproar”
Paul if you click on that blue link that SF included in the original link you will NOT find the quote you gave. I was speaking specifically about the quote that SF provided us. Again, it seems like another attempt to pick a fight where one doesn’t exist.
“Never mind the unprovability of the original assertion about Sox fans, and the not-so-nice things it implies, I truly don’t find the above comments — when printed in full and not stripped of context — very offensive.”
You are right Paul, I cannot prove that Sox fans would be upset or in an uproar and I apologize if you think I was being offensive towards Sox fans. I didn’t think what I said was all that controversial, but if you feel slighted, then my bad.
“I truly don’t find the above comments — when printed in full and not stripped of context — very offensive.”
Yet again you reference the wrong comments. I was commenting on the original info that SF provided.
If you follow the link, these are the only comments given, NOT the one you reference above:
But Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon would give the nod to someone else: Himself.
“If I was managing the team, I would close,” Papelbon said Monday. “But I’m not managing the team.”
Papelbon did acknowledge Rivera’s many accomplishments and also called him the greatest closer ever. So what’s his case?
“Winning the World Series,” he said, “and having our manager here.” Ah, points taken.

John - YFJuly 15, 2008, 1:09 pm

If you follow the link, these are the only comments given, NOT the one you reference above:
Which is fine, and speaks to my point about the comments in context, and AG’s point about the comments being somewhat distorted to manufacture a controversy. Had Joba said exactly what Papelbon said, I doubt many Sox fans would take offense. Now, had these theoretical Joba comments been reduced to small snippets taken out of context? I don’t know how I or other Sox fans would react. I was speaking with knowledge of the full comments, and my post was one of those you cited to make your point about Joba, which is why I felt obliged to post why I don’t find them in the least offensive toward Mariano.
No offense taken about the other comment. I just find the whole “if this were reversed…” scenarios aggravating. They simply don’t advance a dialogue very much.

Paul SFJuly 15, 2008, 1:30 pm

Papelbon has many years to go before he can be put up with Mo; but that goes for all relievers good and excellent in the game right now.
Mariano has always maintained a very cool, classy behavior and Papelbon seems to be more of the young wild-man closer type. Which is fine. It seems to me that there is a certain mentality to being a closer and very few personalities have that much success at it over a long period of time.
Though it may come across as cocky or conceited, I imagine being the closer for a franchise that has had such a grateful fanbase as the Sox and being as intricate a part to their success as Papelbon has been (remember, Mo was the set up man in 96) can explain some of his “exuberance” and “self-assurance.”
I know that myself and other Yankee fans will make most any excuse for any number of Yankee players who were apart of our dynastic run in the late 1990s. We lived thru alot crappier times and alot of questionable personalities to get our rings as well.
As long as Papelbon doesn’t say Mo is over-rated (which he didn’t as far as I’ve read), it just makes me feel good to know I can continue to rabidly root against him every time I see him come out to pitch in a close game.

Hmmmm, Paul, it seems like you left out a few…
Besides which, why did it take 50 mins+ to say the most obvious things about Mo and his role tonight. And why only to one reporter?
This controversy wasn’t distorted – it was the player being an idiot and not saying the most obvious things. Sure the latter is more interesting, but in this context of this event in this history it’s plain stoopid.
Look, Paul, you tried to take PeteAbe to task yesterday – except the problem is he never heard Papsy’s amended version until well after the fact. If anything, Papsy’s done a nice bit of tap dancing. No surprise there.

A YFJuly 15, 2008, 1:36 pm

I think you put should usually put in the best player for the job. Usually, because there are legends that you wouldn’t mind making that case for.
That said, Mo is having a better year in either case, so..

LarJuly 15, 2008, 1:45 pm

There is no controversy except that in lieu of an actual game, writers whine and wheedle over nothing.

I don’t think he (Paps) offended anyone with comments, complete or snipets. It was the comments of some of the Sox fans that ticked me off. Brad, someone I like tremendously, and his “wouldn’t it be sweet” comment for example. (Brad knows we are cool with one another and this is not an attack on him.) It’s a respect thing, that’s all. In a less than eloquent way that’s all I was trying to say. When the time comes that they shut down Fenway, I would hope Yankees fans would agree they would want Paps to close out the game IF the situation presented itself. I don’t think that’s an outrageous statement. It’s the final ASG in Yankee Stadium. This isn’t Petco Park or Cinergy Field, this is a legendary stadium. This isn’t Bobby Thigpen or Turk Wendell, this is Mariano Rivera. Thankfully (at least for Yankees fans) Mariano has played well enough to make the team. If the situation does present itself I feel that Mariano deserves a chance to shut it down, that’s all. Now, after all this it could be a blowout and the AL won’t need a closer.

John - YFJuly 15, 2008, 1:47 pm

SFs kept on complaining about Joba’s fist pump, so you’re telling me if he made those comments, SFs wouldn’t have said anything?
It’s a false dilemma anyhow, so ah well.

LarJuly 15, 2008, 1:47 pm

Oh come on, John. My comment pointed out the fact that I thought Mo should get the nod.
But, as it happens, I happen to like the idea of him messing it up. In whatever game, or whatever year, and in whatever venue, I want Mo to mess it up. That’s not a knock on him, but rather his uniform. But of course, in every imaginable scenario, Mo should be the one getting the ball.
To me, having Mo mess up and Pap clean up said mess is unmissable baseball. Just as it would be for you if the tables were turned.

BradJuly 15, 2008, 2:40 pm

Seems to me like you are looking for something to argue about here SF, but really I have given you no ammo to do so.
Sorry, John, don’t mean to pick a fight, pardon the snippiness. The thing I was reacting to was you expressing being bothered by Sox fans in this thread regarding Mariano but just passively remarking about the booing of Varitek, which strikes me as both predictable and low-rent.
Anyhow, not a big deal. Most of us at this point seem to agree that Papelbon’s original comment was a bit silly (the point of this entire post, as a matter of fact) if not unsurprising. At the same time, he’s come off his position quite vehemently and this issue should probably go away. Those looking to punish Papelbon further have too much time on their hands I think.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 3:20 pm

which strikes me as both predictable and low-rent.
The booing, not your comment – don’t want that misread.

SFJuly 15, 2008, 3:23 pm

“strikes me as both predictable and low-rent”
Yup, you got us! Booing the selection of .220 hitter (and negative 2.6 VORP) to the All-Star Game is very predictable.
Low-rent, I disagree with. That would be blond wigs – something the Sox fans and players know something about.
“Those looking to punish Papelbon further have too much time on their hands I think”
What the hell are you talking about? Who has wanted to “punish him”? How would they even propose doing that?

A YFJuly 15, 2008, 3:32 pm

mo will do fine closing the game tonite. as long as he’s not facing the sox he seems to do ok.
will yank fans get upset that the MVP tonite will be receiving the Ted Williams Award? i can already hear the “not in our stadium”.
a- players respect tek more than posada or aj. you’re gonna have to start dealing with that. this had nothing to do with tito. keep crying about it. the players have spoken.

sf rodJuly 15, 2008, 5:51 pm

sf rod: Mo is bad against the Sox? Um…yeah. I seem to recall Papelbon blowing a few games against us in his short tenure as the self-proclaimed best closer in the history of the world.

kruegJuly 15, 2008, 5:55 pm

To be fair, Posada did miss half the season, and was middling (for him, I guess) the games he did played, so I can understand that.

LarJuly 15, 2008, 5:57 pm

guy’s- i dig and appreciate mariano. my comment was honestly not a knock on him. no question that he should close this game.
-the players had the option to take anyone. posada would have made for a good story. but….they chose tek. the players sent a message to aj as much as they did to tek.

sf rodJuly 15, 2008, 6:34 pm

sorry. last thing…
i’m getting tired of the “hopefully the tito and the sox can to keep the ASG classy” narrative. i’m certain they will….while being booed for it the entire time.

sf rodJuly 15, 2008, 6:39 pm

Is there _any_ other sport that assigns some sort of consequence to what is supposed to be an exhibition game? C’mon, MLB. Get rid of the home field advantage reward and let this game mean what it is supposed to: nothing but a fun diversion. (and maybe some bonus $$ for contractually incentivized players)

attackgerbilJuly 15, 2008, 6:47 pm

“Varitek took it on the chin last night. I was there for the “Workout” portion of the night and he took BP with his stats on the board…the fans were unrelenting.”
Of course they did. What do you expect from the people who booed a 19-year-old Red Sox Class A-level prospect in the futures game?
For the record, I want Mo to have the ball at the end, and there’s no doubt that Tito will make the right decision. He has too much respect for the game and its history not to.

I'mBillMcNealJuly 15, 2008, 8:19 pm

Instead of giving Tek a hard time about being at the ASG, maybe the fans should be booing the players that voted him in.
Anyone know if he has ASG selection incentives in his contract? If he doesn’t then I guess he is playing (instead of bowing out) or if he does then maybe other players knew about it, he does have Boras for an agent…

Who is that woman in red dancing with Papelbon? I think I am in love. :)
Also, that see-through shirt of Papelbon just shows that men should never wear shirts in which people can see your nipples.
That’s just not attractive.

SoxFanJuly 16, 2008, 4:54 am

“players respect tek more than posada or aj. you’re gonna have to start dealing with that.”
By that same logic, players respect Joe Crede more than Mike Lowell. You’re gonna have to start dealing with that.

A YFJuly 16, 2008, 5:51 am

From PeteAbe this morning:
Mariano Rivera said last night that he was told three days ago (by Joe Girardi via Terry Francona) that he would be used to close if the situation came up. Presumably, Francona told Jonathan Papelbon the same thing.
Why then did Papelbon carry on like he did on Monday? It makes no sense. Why say you want to close when you know Mo will be the closer? Just say something polite about Mariano and move on.
—
PeteAbe nails it.

A YFJuly 16, 2008, 6:37 am

PeteAbe also nails the props to Tito. Well managed game on his part and with a great handling of the Yankees (and even the wasted roster spot given to a certain catcher). I gotta say I think Francona is one of the best in the game. And he showed it last night.