Easter Or Resurrection Day

Mark V, You still don't get it, right? I have said many times that we Eastern Christians DO NOT worship Idols. However, for some reason, you keep insisting that we do, despite the fact that the I have said VERY CLEARLY that we do not worship Holy Icons.

If we Eastern Orthodox Christians are Idolaters, then so are Baptist, Pentecostals, and other Protestant sects, for the same reasons I have posted below.

In the end, you will believe whatever you want to believe and will continue to bear false witness against your Brethren.

FYI, It was YOU who bought up the subject of Exodus 20 and it's prohibitions of Idols. I simply REAFFIRM that the text has NOTHING to do with Images in general.

When I was in elementary school, we was FORCE to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to a object (the Flag). The teacher didn't play. At least, that was my experienced.

"You are pledging to the flag (which symbolizes the nation) AND to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God"

Very true, but in the end you are still pledging your allegiance to a object. How come we Eastern Christians, according to Mark V ideology, Idolaters (because we simply have Icons) but most Americans are not, despite their pledging to a piece of cloth and venerated Statues, like the Lincoln Memorial?

Igantius, so you do worship idols. You said you didn't when I ask you. When I answered Cluny I was under the impression he was a Catholic cause he defended the Idols and the molesters. But I guess you lied and you do worship idols. You give all this reason why others pledge alligience so to defend the removal of the Second Commandment. And the Second Commandment is not about worshipping pagan idols that don't speak walk, or answer prayers, It is about representing and image of God and worshipping that image. The calf was not a pagan idol, It represented God who took them out of Egypt. I was not answering to the Eastern Church since you said you didn't have idols or worship them, I believed you, but I now I see there is no differences.

Ignatious -- Because of the freedoms you enjoy, no one can force you to say the Pledge of Allegiance. You are pledging to the flag (which symbolizes the nation) AND to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God

It in no way supersedes your allegiance to God HIMSELF. Nor does it imply anything like that.

So why resist (unless, of course, you are not an American and therefore feel no sense of gratitude nor responsibility to the country)

Mark V, Prayer cloths is a strong tradition within Pentecostal/Charismatic circles. I was born and raised Pentecostal before I got saved, and we use a piece of cloth in all our services. When people will "danced in the Spirit" (it was more like bunny hopping), they will always hold a piece of cloth in there right hand, waving it in the air. We had a image of the cross in the Altar too, and a image of a white dove (with tongues of fire) too. Having such images in common in Baptist and Pentecostals churches (I even visited a few with images of the Last Supper, etc).

If we are Idolaters, then Baptist and Pentecostals are too, for many of them have images and have a strong attachment to a piece of cloth.

Mark V. You said it will be unfair to say we believe this or that when you have not studied about Eastern Orthodoxy, yet, in your former posts you have made false accusations and assumptions about us Eastern Orthodox Christians. With all due respect, you should learn to keep silent on things you know not of.

As far as Holy Icons and Statues, we have dealt with this before. Ex 20 does not forbid Holy Icons in general, but only Idols. This is made clear in the Greek version of the Old Testament (LXX). Holy Icons and Statues were prevalent in the Tabernacle and then later in the Temple. They were part of Jewish worship services, and later in Christianity. In the end, you will believe what you want to believe.

Mark V "Pledging alligience to the flag is to pledge alligience to our goverment"

When I was in elementary school, one of my teachers took the pledge of allegiance very seriously. At the end of our recitation, she will kiss the flag. Many of us followed her example, and venerated the flag too. When I was in High School, another of my teacher did the same thing.

"No one kneels down and prays to a flag, and hopes the flag will answer. "

Well, you are pledging your allegiance to a object. By the way, what about the Lincoln Memorial? Isn't the huge statue of Abraham Lincoln, the Temple in which He is on, and the inscription, idolatry? Many venerate the statue each year.

I have noticed that people who have come out of the RCC generally have strong feelings against the RCC teachings, and I respect that and take their perceptions of the RCC seriously. They may see something that I don't see as clearly.

I seem to have similar feelings about local churches as those who came out of the RCC have about the RCC. Consequently, I try to take each individual as they relate to God, through Christ, no matter which church or denomination they identify with. Being "in Christ" is the issue.

Ruben, I'm no expert. But when I came to Christ I made it my duty to learn why I had been lied to all my life. What they taught, why they didn't want anyone to have a bible, what they did through the ages, why popes had mistresses and concubines, and wives. Why no one could speak against them. Why they killed so many by orders of Popes. Why they worshipped Mary and saints Idols above Christ, and why was there no change in a persons life. But we are not in bondage anymore Ruben. We have freedom to learn with the help of the Holy Spirit what the real Truth is. The Church didn't have it no matter how religious they looked or how powerful they were, even then God kept a remnant for Himself from that Church. Great man came from there because of God.

Cluny, you are another person that uses tricks to defend what most of you do, idol worship. Pledging alligience to the flag is to pledge alligience to our goverment. God wants us to do what our goverment tells us. Nothing more then that. The Second Commandment which your church removed from the Ten Commandments recorded in Exodus 20. God prohibited sacred images. He prohibited images because they cannot convey who God is. No image of Jesus, no matter how magnificent it is, can never capture the nature of the Lord. And all well meaning attempts only incur His displeasure. No one kneels down and prays to a flag, and hopes the flag will answer. So your examples are meaningless and without value.

but have studied the RCC, Jehovah Witness, Islam, but only to help me understand what they teach. I'm sorry I got into the topic of the children molested, but that topic hit home. I have no problem with the people from the RCC, just their leadership. ---MarkV. on 4/12/10

Mark just because you were once a Catholic does not make you a expert.

Show me documents that say we worship Mary or the Pope:

Show me documents that say works are only what we need to get to heaven:

\\Cluny, it is easy to just say, I did this at some Baptist Church. Can you explain what Baptist Church has idols where you said you worshipped them?\\

Every Baptist Church i've been in has idols made of cloth.

On many occasions, they are brought up with great solemnity, exposed for veneration in the front of the Church, and worshipped with ritual gestures executed in unison by the assembly on the command of the leader: "Attention. Salute. Pledge."

They then recite prayers to them. Oddly enough, both prayers begin with the same words: "I pledge allegiance...."

If Orthodox have idols, then so do Baptists and many other Protestant churches.

Ignatius, going back to what you said, I'm not in a position to speak about the Eastern Church's since my studies on them are very few. Cluny was right, the topic dividing East from West was language (Greek) and the subject of "Filioque." It would be unfair for me to say that it does this and that without studying first what they really teach. I try not to get into other denominations so much because it takes alot of my time, but have studied the RCC, Jehovah Witness, Islam, but only to help me understand what they teach. I'm sorry I got into the topic of the children molested, but that topic hit home. I have no problem with the people from the RCC, just their leadership.

It is a falsehood that pagans started the holy days, and christians just adopted them by adding christian embellishments. On the contrary, the truth is that Passover was instituted 2,669 years after Adam was created, when Moses was 80 years old in 1525 B.C. And the Astarte idol has nothing to do with Pasover, and the Easter bunny has zero to do with Easter and Jesus' resurrection day. We Christians celebrate the real historical and documented crucifixion and resurrection of Christ our Lord at Easter time, and the world will celebrate their nonScriptural and nonhistorical fables and traditions. They will have their vain fantasies of easter bunnies laying eggs, but we will have our Almighty Lord Jesus powerfully raised from the dead.

Cluny, it is easy to just say, I did this at some Baptist Church. Can you explain what Baptist Church has idols where you said you worshipped them?Just saying does not make it true. What I do know is that at every RCC Church they have idols, and at the shrines where I have gone to, they light a candles sold by the RCC, kneel down, and ask those idols to answer their prayers. The prayers are directed at the Idols, like at St. Juan, and Our lady of Guadalupe. I have been there done that. In St. Juan, San Juan Texas, Jesus was in a glass coffin, and no one was there by Him. Not even a candle was lit for Him. No one kneeling down, no one asking for Jesus into their hearts. Hundreds kneeled in front of St. Juan.

Mark V."I did not read about your affiliation to the (Greek Orthodox Archiocese of America) since you never mentioned you belong to them. "

I don't. I belong to Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, however we are in communion with other canonical Eastern Orthodox jurisdictions, such as the Greek Orthodox Archiocese of America.

"When you said East, I thought you meant somewhere in the Middle East or in Greece."

That is our Apostolic Faith homeland. I live in NYC though. BTW, there are thousands upon thousands of Eastern Orthodox parishes in the USA, many of them use English as there primary language in Church services.

Ignatius, it seems to me that from reading about what happened in history and the split up of the East from the West, still means they were once one. The difference were small in the beginning but later they became big. Language was the first problem. I did not read about your affiliation to the (Greek Orthodox Archiocese of America) since you never mentioned you belong to them. When you said East, I thought you meant somewhere in the Middle East or in Greece. Not some institution here in the USA. That is why I was asking.

Ignatius, You said I said something that I did not and you said it was false assumption. I did not say the East came out of the RCC. Not at all. In fact I said the Universal Church consisted of many churches from different areas and that some broke away from that Universal church that later stood along as the RCC with a pope and different doctrines. You said also something you called FWIW, what do you mean by that? Also, you mention your Eastern Apostolic Church does not have Idols but everywhere I read about that Church says they do. They even give reasons why they do. Now are this Eastern churches different then yours?

1) We do not have Idols.2) We have not removed the second commandment. FWIW, all my Catholic Bibles hasn't removed them either3) We do not believe in a work salvation.4) Yes, we do have the Holy Mystery of Confession.5) Yes, per Holy Scriptures and the Fathers, Holy Baptism is a renewal, of dying to an old way of life and being born again into a new way of life, in Christ. As the Nicene Creed profess, "we believe in one Baptism for the remission of sins".6) We do not believe in Purgatory, neither does many Eastern Catholics.7) Yes, we believe that we partake of the Body and Blood of Christ under the appearance of bread and wine in the Eucharist. 8) We do not worship Mary.

Mark V. Christianity (the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church) was founded and flourished in the East. Thereby, to say that we (Eastern Christians) came out of the Roman Church or that the doctrines of the East came from the RCC are false assumptions on your part.

I will answer your questions. It is fine if you want to know how we differ to the church that was Orthodox for 1,000 years, but you have a false assumption that all churches came out of the RCC, and that is why every time we get into a discussion, you end up mentioning the RCC as if they are the "rod" that all must be compare to.

Ignatius, another thing you mention is that Christianity was born in the East and because of that it is the right one. Well, Christianity had to be born some place, and it happened where Jesus was born. And spread throughout the world. That does not make it better then any other. It only makes it the place where it started. When the Church first came together it was made up of many churches put together. By that time some didn't survive. Mostly all churches came from the same Universal Church, and broke away through the times. No one has everything correct just because they are in the East, West, North or South. My most important Question is, does your Eastern Church have idols? Did they do away with the Second Commandment?

Igantius, you say that Eastern is different that the Western and you compare Protestants to Catholics, ok if that is the case, You answer these questions.1. Did your religion remove the second commandment as the RCC?2. Does your religion believe salvation is by grace and works put together?3. Do you confess to a preacher?4. Are you born again when you are baptized?5. Do you have idols of saints in your church, candles for them, or a place to put money where they are located?6. Do they believe in purgatory? 7. Does it believe when you take the communion you are actually eating the real flesh of Christ?8. Does your faith believe in worshipping Mary in prayers. Simple yes or no will do.

FYI, all Christians (whether from Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthodoxy, or Oriental Orthodoxy, etc) have similar beliefs, although I will say there exist a vast difference between them.

Not all Protestants have the same doctrines and practices. For instance, there is a vast difference between a Lutheran and a Pentecostal. Baptismal Regeneration/Infant Baptism is believed and practice by many Protestants (ie., Lutheran, Anglicans, etc). The Reformed Churches practice Infant Baptism as well. As far as the Eucharist, Lutherans believe in the Sacramental Union. Confession to a Priest? Lutherans do it too!

Mark V. Wrong. The Eastern Churches did not arose out of the Roman Church, since the 1st century, they have been separated geography (massively)! It is the opposite. The Roman Church arose out of the Eastern Churches! Southern Italy, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, Asia Minor, and the Middle East was where Christianity began and unfolded. Jesus and His disciples were "Eastern" by birth, culture, and language i.e., in the Middle East.

The Bible is an Eastern Book, its entire cultural context speaks of it. The "headquarters" of the Christian Faith was in the East (such as the Jerusalem Church, our Mother Church). The Apostles founded forty-four Local Churches in the East (only two in the West).

#2 For than 1,000 years, all the major centers of Christian belief were founded in the East, in Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch, and Constantinople. All the fundamental dogmas regarding the Faith were formulated and defended in the East (i.e., that Christ is "of the same essence" with the Father, that he is fully God and Fully Man, that the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person, the Nature of the Trinity, etc).

The first schools Biblical interpretation, Antioch and Alexandria, were in the East. Their perspectives of interpretation still influence much of our understanding of Scriptures today!

#3 The East was the site for all the fundamental Church councils (the first Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils from 325AD-787AD). The majority of the Bishops represented at those councils were Eastern as well. In was the East that Judaism and Christianity began and flourished. Denying our Eastern roots is like denying our parents. Many in the West have forgotten the Middle Eastern and Semitic core of Christianity. The Roman Church arose out of the existed Doctrine and Practices of the Eastern Churches, and she was Orthodox for centuries until she went into heresy.

However, Protestantism arose OUT of the RCC, and her founder was a Catholic Priest, Martin Luther. The other Protestants Reformers were born CATHOLICS!

"Much of Christian liturgy (forms of worship) and most of Christian dogma has arisen in the East...The Principal symbol of the superiority of Eastern over Western theology was the preeminence of Greek as the language for expressing Christian doctrine with due precision. Various doctrinal controversies showed that 'there are not even any Latin terms to correspond to the more subtle conceptual distinctions of Greek Theology" (Jeroslav Pelikan, The Christian Tradition: The Spirit of Eastern Christendom (600-1700)).

The RCC and Protestantism both share a common Western outlook. They differ from Eastern Christianity in a vast way, from how we approach and analyze a subjects to various doctrines and practices.

Char-- Amen to that. All good and perfect gifts come from the Father...

Rhonda--I'm having a hard time relating the verses you cite to the topic of Easter or Resurrection day.There is no "false doctrine" or "other Jesus here". Unless you consider the Easter Bunny one who preaches a false doctrine believed by only children.

Ask any protestant who they worship on Easter. They will not say "Astarte" or "the Pope", they will say Jesus Christ! If they want to glorify Jesus, why would you want to argue?

Cluny, the Protestants got all of their doctrines from the Bible. If some were the same as the RCC its only because those doctrines had not been change in the RCC. Protestants do not believe in Idol worship, and no works for salvation. No eating the real flesh of Jesus Christ, no purgatory, no infallible pope, no confession to priest, no regeneration by water, and the list goes on. NO, there is no comparision. Removing the Second commandment is not the duty of the Church either and creating ten by dividing the 9th. What I believe is that the East got most of their doctrines from the RCC with the exception that they do not have the Pope as their infallible leader. If there is differences they must be very small.

easter is pagan ...religious christianity duped into belief they can celebrate all things in "name" of a Christ UNAWARE worshiping another Christ 2Corin 11:4 and IGNORE Christs warning in Mark 7:6-7

biblical Christ told True Christians to observe Passover once per year with NEW symbols

NOTHING in scripture supports abomination of the pagan easter the catholics superimposed OVER The Messiah ...christians who observe catholic easter worship the pope ...the pope is calling its daughters home Rev 17:5

Easter comes from the word Eostr which is an Angelo Saxon word for to be in heat. Eastre, Eostr, Ostara was the goddess of spring in the ancient religion of the Angelo and Saxons.Christianity when it reached the Teutons,incorporated in its celebration of the great Christian feast day many of the heathen rites and customs which accompanied their observance of the spring[i] It has also been noted that Easter has roots with Ishtar, the Assyrian fertility goddess of spring, or Astarte, the Phoenian version of Ishtar. The truth is that Ester has nothing to do with the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. The heathen rites and customs of this spring festival used the hare, and colored eggs as fertility symbols to celebrate the forces of spring.

I on the other hand believe that these were apostates:John 6:66: "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."And these:Galatians 1:6_7: "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."These too:1 Timothy 20:20: "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

NIV -- This is wrongActs 12: 3 When he saw that this pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also. This happened during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. 4After arresting him, he put him in prison, handing him over to be guarded by four squads of four soldiers each. Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread is considered part of Passover. But the Day of Passover has Always been the 14 Nisan or Abib, unleavened bread starts on the 15th as you stated, but many times this is referred to as part of Passover, so when it says after Passover it means after the Feast.

David8318 on 4/4/10 Leave Easter out if you want but passover will not fit in Acts 12 After unleavened bread. As I demonstrate, scripture needs to be changed if you place Passover After Unleavened Bread

This is the sequence: 1. PASSOVER (14th of Abib Num 28:16)2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD(Numbers 28:17 15th. through the 20th day of Abib)PASSOVER OCCURS BEFORE UNLEAVENED BREAD

NIV -- This is wrongActs 12: 3 When he saw that this pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also. This happened during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. 4After arresting him, he put him in prison, handing him over to be guarded by four squads of four soldiers each. Herod intended to bring him out for public trial after the Passover.

I agree with you Cluny, there were apostate Christians pre-Nicene, even in the apostle Paul's day. Paul said there would be an 'apostasy' and that he could already see it. 2 Thess.2:3,7.

That apostasy crystallised in 325CE with Constantine forming the RCC, a combination of apostate Christianity with paganism. All apostate Christian denominations spring from this union, altogether called 'Christendom'.

To say Pascha is the Resurrection of Christ is nonsensical and a contradiction in terms. To say such a thing is an apostasy and a lacking of understanding of what Pascha really is.

Strangely enough, I agree with your points 1 & 2 which are correctly supported by you with scripture. It's point 3 which you deviate from the Bible as you demonstrate perfectly because you cannot support with scripture. Not surprising given that 'Easter' is not a scriptural word in either of the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek texts. Any scriptures from Numbers to support point 3?

Thus, as you demonstrate, scripture needs to be changed if you include easter.

David8318 on 4/3/10 Bible scholars and accurate Bible translators will attest to the fact that 'pascha' means 'passover'

Passover is before Unleavened Bread.

This is the sequence: 1. PASSOVER (14th of Abib Num 28:16)2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD(Numbers 28:17 15th. through the 20th day of Abib) 3. EASTER If you want to put easter with passover you will have to change some scripture.

Michael e, the word used at Acts 12:4 is 'pascha'. Bible scholars and accurate Bible translators will attest to the fact that 'pascha' means 'passover'.

'Pagan Anglo-Saxons used to celebrate a festival of their GODDESS of SPRING (passion), who was named Eostre.'- Great Catholic Festivals. p33.

In 325CE Constantine combined the Roman pagan religion with apostate Christianity which appealed to pagans, since they had long been used to worshiping Eostre. To the Greeks and Romans her name was Astarte. The Babylonians had worshiped her by the name Ishtar and the Phoenicians by the name Ashtoreth.

Archaeologists have uncovered carvings of the fertility goddess Ishtar holding an egg in her hand and a rabbit at her feet.

What is this sight that is seen? What is this present rest? The King of the ages, having accomplished his dispensation through suffering, takes His Sabbath rest in a tomb, granting us a new Sabbath rest. To Him let us cry, "Arise, O God, judge the earth, for You are king for ever, and without measure is Your great mercy."

Acts 12:1-4, Herod took Peter DURING the DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, going to bring him to the people AFTER Easter. Easter couldn't be Passover, Passover was (14th of Abib Num 28:16)occurs BEFORE the days of unleavened bread(Numbers 28:17 15th. through the 20th day of Abib) when they arrested Peter, Passover had come and gone. Herod decided to bring Peter forth AFTER Easter. This is the sequence: 1. PASSOVER 2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD 3. EASTER

Is there anyone who posts to these blogs who was immediately a Christian upon physical birth? Those who were not had pagan origins themselves at one point. ---Cluny on 4/3/10 Great point Cluny. Even David8318 was pagan once, yet God has, according to him, restored him. Easter, being pagan, has been joined to Christ since the 2nd century and even the pagan symbols have been used to teach Christ crucified and the new birth.Satan can try to keep it as his own, but, just like those God has redeemed, they aren't his anymore. Please do not give back what satan has lost, and I'm not just talking to those against Easter.

The LORD said that He would be in the heart of the Earth for three Days and three Nights, as Jonah was in the belly of the Great Fish. That is three literal Days and three literal Nights. Equalling 72 Hours. If, as the common Church teaches and believes, that He was crucified and died on "Good Friday" and then, arose on early Sunday morning, that does not equal three Days and three Nights. YAHUSHUA specifically said THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS. Take it at FACE VALUE. He was buried before sundown Wednesday evening, and He then arose before sundown Saturday. Then, the Tomb was found to be emptied by the time the three women arrived at the Tomb at sunrise Sunday morn, to anoint the Body that they thought would still be there.

Earl, I think we have a disagreement here! What I wrote meant that the universe itself cannot get any more 'ordered', and so it is like a clock that is winding down - in the end, the whole universe will be a mess. But that is different from moral matters - there I do not see and improvement - whether I see it getting worse, I am not sure yet. But I think we actually agree about things

David, you speak falsehood. Easter has zero to do with paganism, and all to do with the truth of Christ's passion. I suggest that you read the Holy Bible, the spoken words of God which are proven to be the truth, rather than the dead words of unsaved clay which are proven to be false and blasphemous.

Lawrence, I never said anything about misprints or errors in God's Word. You are avoiding the issue. The error belongs to the translators of the King James Bible. It's not a misprint but a deliberate attempt by the KJ translators to include the word 'easter' when the word clearly means 'passover'.

'Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar'. Ro.3:4.

The KJ translators do this to give Easter a sense of Biblical authority, when it absolutely does not. Rev.22:18.

Do you Lawrence believe the word 'pascha' at Acts 12:4 means 'easter'? Do you? If you do then you are wrong and misguided. All sincere Bible writers and translators know that 'pascha' means 'passover'.

Sorry Lawrence, but 'Easter' is not a word found in the original text of the Bible in any form.

The word 'Easter' appears in the King James Bible at Acts 12:4, this however is an error of the translators.

The word used at Acts 12:4 is 'Pascha' which simply means 'passover'.

Easter is not authorized by the Bible.

Easter is a word derived from the Babylonian Deity Astarte, from where the word Asterix is found. Pagans painted the Asterix on cakes, making the 'hot cross buns' popular in pagandom, perhaps a satanic twist on the Bible ordained 'Festival of Bread' accompanying Passover.

Dave The word Easter is in scripture, I wasn't refering to the aspects of Easter. The pagans are sure celebrating Jesus resurrection the wrong way with the e-eggs, e-bunnies etc. & has Nothing to do with Jesus.The devil being the like the pied-piper sure has put that music of pagan ideas to a lot peoples minds.

Both. Easter is an old word for Spring, and comes from the Lithuanian word "Aistra", meaning "Passion". But Easter is more correctly called Passover or the "Feast of Unleavened Bread", instituted on April 14, 1525 B.C. when Moses was 80 years old. The New Passover, called Communion, was instituted on Thursday April 14, 28 A.D. at 6:00 p.m. when Jesus was 32 years old. Early Sunday morning, three days after Jesus' last Passover supper, is Jesus' Resurrection Day.