It seems to me they joined to make some cogent counterpoints to personal attacks and misconceptions. Also to attest that these things keep people from enjoying this site fully or participating altogether.

How many people need say these things before others realize it matters?

Yes really, isn't that what he just did, telling people not to express themselves the way he just did.. It's the internet, people are going to say whatever they want to say. If you don't like it don't read it. People get offended so easily. Scott said, Tony said, this new person said. Who cares. Get over it. It's pizza.

BTW, I'm not defending what Scott or Tony did. All I'm saying is don't goes somewhere, tell people not to attack someone because they don't know them, then do the thing they said not to do.

I have my own feelings about Scott123ís NY style pizzas he wants everyone to try to achieve if they want. I have read almost every post here on the forum for awhile. I know Scott123 has helped many members make what they think it their best NY style pizzas and I can appreciate his passion for NY style pizzas and all the time he spends helping other members achieve what they want, whether it is in this country or other countries. I know Scott123 is very smart and has great writing skills and conveys his thoughts very well here on the forum. I also know he knows a lot about how different ovens work and what to do and what not to do in trying to get the most out of them. I have been on two pizza tours with Scott123 in NYC and he really is a nice guy and I know he is really passionate about NY style pizza of years ago.

What I donít understand though is why Scott123 gets into controversial posts with Peter Reinhart, Tony G., or other professionals like Jay Jerrier and others. It is those posts that give me pause and make me wonder. I know Scott gets upset with different information they might have posted here on the forum or elsewhere, but it seems to me that there is a better way of going about what he tries to do in spreading the word about the old NY style pizzas he loves with a passion, or there might be a better way of trying to see if others can be persuaded to change their minds. I know I asked Scott123 awhile ago here on the forum how he plans to spread the word about old NY style pizzas elsewhere other than here on the forum.

I also wonder why if Scott123 believes he can make his idea of an old school NY style pizza why he doesnít purchase a camera and post all his results with photos for any members that want to see his pizza. I know pictures canít tell everything, but it sure would be interesting to see one of Scottís NY style pizzas. I havenít seen any of his pizzas. I know where Scott made the excuses that he didnít have a camera to take those pictures, but if he truly believes he can make the great old style NY style pizzas then I think he would purchase a camera and take those photos, or use his flipshare he used to take the video at Pizza Town. I think it was Scott123 that did take a great video with the flipshare at Pizza Town. and a video of vesta_vodka at and another video of I guess was the same pizza at I also am just guessing that Scott123's screen name on YouTube is 8enter. I would think if Scott still has that flipshare he could take at least a video of one of his NY style pizzas. I also donít know a lot about flipshare, but maybe also it can capture photos from a video.

If I ever thought I had made my ideal of a really good old style NY pizza, or almost what my ideal was of an old NY style pizza I would be posting those results with the exact formulation, the sauce brand (with any additional ingredients that might be needed) the brand of mozzarella and the methods I went through about making that NY style pizza with photos for anyone that might be interested in trying it to see if they also thought it was a good NY style pizza. I know I have never made my ideal NY style pizza, because I truly donít know what the perfect NY style pizza is even after many experiments and tasting different pizzas from NYC and other places. I never lived in NYC back when there was supposed to be really good NY style pizzas, but have tasted NY style pizzas in NYC for nearly 20 years. How those old time NY style pizzas were achieved sometimes has me picking my brains to know how they made those pizzas.

What I donít understand though is why Scott123 gets into controversial posts with Peter Reinhart, Tony G., or other professionals like Jay Jerrier and others. It is those posts that give me pause and make me wonder. I know Scott gets upset with different information they might have posted here on the forum or elsewhere, but it seems to me that there is a better way of going about what he tries to do in spreading the word about the old NY style pizzas he loves with a passion, or there might be a better way of trying to see if others can be persuaded to change their minds. I know I asked Scott123 awhile ago here on the forum how he plans to spread the word about old NY style pizzas elsewhere other than here on the forum.

Norma, thanks for sharing your opinion. Can't wait to take the whole family down to Root's market to have your pizza. My children still talk about the trip and want to know when we are returning. Everyone loved your pizza! Let me take a guess at why Scott123 mixes it up with the "big boys". Scott is so passionate about his pizza, he gets uncomfortable when he thinks people use media hype and commercialization and arrogance to advance themselves in the pizza world. We are all human, and we are aware of our social rank. We prefer to be higher on the rank. For Scott123 and many others, social rank and New York pizza don't mix. New York pizza is for the man on the street with no false pretenses. That is where Scott123 and you meet. You are genuine, and so is Scott. Your pizza spot at Root's is honest and was, for my family, a real unique slice of Pennsylvania German life. You and Scott are different in that you respect social order and hierarchy, while occasionally Scott lets his pizza passion surge and smash social structure and hierarchy. Differences among us are the spice of life. I can only guess that the reason Scott123 does not post pictures of his pie is that he is such a perfectionist, he would never be happy with how the photos turn out. He obviously is a passionate perfectionist. There is mystery behind him, but then mystery is an essential component of our experience. Enough of the pop psychology - let's get back to pizza! Mark

Norma, thanks for sharing your opinion. Can't wait to take the whole family down to Root's market to have your pizza. My children still talk about the trip and want to know when we are returning. Everyone loved your pizza! Let me take a guess at why Scott123 mixes it up with the "big boys". Scott is so passionate about his pizza, he gets uncomfortable when he thinks people use media hype and commercialization and arrogance to advance themselves in the pizza world. We are all human, and we are aware of our social rank. We prefer to be higher on the rank. For Scott123 and many others, social rank and New York pizza don't mix. New York pizza is for the man on the street with no false pretenses. That is where Scott123 and you meet. You are genuine, and so is Scott. Your pizza spot at Root's is honest and was, for my family, a real unique slice of Pennsylvania German life. You and Scott are different in that you respect social order and hierarchy, while occasionally Scott lets his pizza passion surge and smash social structure and hierarchy. Differences among us are the spice of life. I can only guess that the reason Scott123 does not post pictures of his pie is that he is such a perfectionist, he would never be happy with how the photos turn out. He obviously is a passionate perfectionist. There is mystery behind him, but then mystery is an essential component of our experience. Enough of the pop psychology - let's get back to pizza! Mark

Mark,

I would like to see you and your family again.

I can understand why Scott123 doesnít want people, or the ďbig boysí to use media hype and commercialization and ignorance to advance themselves in the pizza world. I donít agree with those ideas either. I know differences among all of us members is what makes the spice of life and I do really enjoy Scott123ís passion for the style of pizza he loves so much. The only thing that bothers me is that if Scott123 is so passionate about wanting to advance his old style of NY style pizza as much as he can, which I know he does, then he should post photos whether the pizzas look perfect or not. I think there comes a time when a members should show what they can do if they want to advance their style of pizzas. I sure wouldnít want to look here on the forum and keep reading about different styles of pizza and then not see any pictures of pizzas members made.

I don't claim to know Scott personally, but I do think I get him a little. A big part of that is due to my past in a different community in the past where I dealt with issues very similar to the ones he does.

In my younger years I raised a small herd of chinchillas for show. I was a cellular and molecular biology major, and genetics was a major interest, and this was a way to play with my genetics knowledge and theories in the real world. As some of you may know, in the 40's, 50's and 60's the chinchilla industry boomed on the speculation of a lucrative fur market that never fully materialized. Back then chinchillas where viewed as a great investment and many highly educated people became involved in the industry. Entire books were written on the genetics of the domesticated chinchilla. I read them all, went to used book stores and tracked down little known publications few people alive had heard of let alone read. Through that I learned from a bygone generation, and educated generation of doctors and scientists. Problem was that bygone generation was just that, gone. As the boom waned the educated people who viewed chinchillas as a high dollar investment were replaced by farmers who viewed them as a simple livestock. Outside of the old books and publications the genetics knowledge was lost. When I entered the "scene" the big names in the industry were a major source of misinformation. It was a constant fight. For every person I educated with the proper information 10 where lost to the misinformation from a big name. At one point I ended up in an argument with the president of the national breeders organization because they were making statements that conflicted with old books that they were at the time publishing and selling. Can you imagine that, you are the president of an organization putting out a book that contains the proper information, and you are publicly refuting it with misinformation? Needless to say it was incredibly frustrating.

Scott sits in the same boat today with New York Style pizza. For every person he teaches, there are 100 being misinformed by big names. Sadly most of the big names have little to no history with New York.

"With great power comes great responsibility". I personally wish more of the big names where more responsible with their power, and applaud Scott for standing up for something he cares about. His New York edge might not always be beneficial to the conversation, but anybody who's ever met a New Yorker knows that is as New York as the pizza he is trying to defend.

Therefore, my request is to have Scott123 post his complete recipe for both his NY style pizza dough and his signature NY style sauce that he likes to use. ALSO: include picture of the finished pizza, like everyone else is doing on the forum.

I don't think this is too much to ask since you have been making this pizza for many years. Also, I am NOT looking for feedback from other members, telling me why or why not this won't happen, the philosophy of Scott123, etc... I just want to see his complete recipe with details and measurements.

Thank YouTomN

Wtf... I don't know that I've ever seen anything quite like this before....

....Therefore, my request is to have Scott123 post his complete recipe for both his NY style pizza dough and his signature NY style sauce that he likes to use. ALSO: include picture of the finished pizza, like everyone else is doing on the forum.....

I don't think this is too much to ask......Also, I am NOT looking for feedback from other members, telling me why or why not this won't happen, the philosophy of Scott123, etc...

TomN

We have been through this entire thing before, same song, different day.

My friend was giving his wife grief one night about her having a male OB/GYN. She shut him up rather quickly when she asked him if a Cardiologist needed to have a heart attack to practice medicine.

Yes, you are asking alot. This is a huge part of his life, he doesn't have to hand anything to anyone, and certainly doesn't need a picture. All this information is on the forum anyway, go research it for yourself.

If I offended anyone, please accept my apologies. I was only asking see a complete recipe with details and possible photos, so that I could make it at home. . Apparently, i offended people which was not my intent. Therefore, i am done posting any comments or asking for recipes concerning this subject. Again, please accept my apologies.

If I offended anyone, please accept my apologies. I was only asking see a complete recipe with details and possible photos, so that I could make it at home. . Apparently, i offended people which was not my intent. Therefore, i am done posting any comments or asking for recipes concerning this subject. Again, please accept my apologies.

TomN

Tom he did post a formula a while back somewhere but I'm positive there were no pictures. I actually remember seeing a picture of a pizza a top a white oven but I'm not sure it was his or a picture of someone else's pizza he said his looked like. As to where that formula is; no clue, you'll have to fish through his posts.

Again, no offense towards anyone on the forum, but i am just not interested anymore. However, i did learn that all recipes need to be adjusted to your part of the country despite any recipe. Thanks again.

TomNPShere is an article review that i posted about dough recipes, under the dough ingredients thread.