When I received my amp with Shugangs, one went bad within the first couple of weeks. Sent them back and Steve sent me replacements. Now again one pair is really noisy (hiss and static). I replaced them with JJ's and can't believe how much less noise and hiss are coming out of my Zu's. My amp is quiet again! The noise just kind of crept up until I started to hear it from the listening position.

No more overpriced treasures for me! The JJ's sound so much more alive.

OC, have not had that experience with my Treasures. I bought two matched quads from the dealer in Canada [I think], and a third quad from a nominally reputable dealer in HK, and they have performed well for me. I have the JJs as backup, but have not had to use them.

I noticed in the thread on the new Mono user manual, Steve has indicated that he is taking Decware out of the tube upgrade business. I think this makes a lot of sense. All the amps are well-voiced for stock tubes, as your own experience here indicates. While I have been pleased with the Treasures I bought from Grant Fidelity, that's not always going to be the case. And the buyer and the tube maker/supplier probably ought to be resolving any unhappiness.

I just received my new Psvane 6CA7-T II matched quad. Looking forward to seeing how they sound. If they sound half as good as they look..........

Orangecrush, sorry you had a problem but I'm very glad you let it be known on the Forum. I, too, ordered the Shuguang Treasures when I ordered my MK III, but when my Torii was ready to ship Steve was out of stock on the Treasures so I started out with the JJ's. The Treasures arrived several weeks later and I replaced them immediately and they have probably < 100 hours on them. I'm getting what I'll call "muted static" from my Martin Logan Vantages, but not 100% of the time and it can only be detected during soft passages (I listen primarily to classical). I was hoping some break-in time would cure the issue, and it might, but I am going to put the JJ's back into the equation and see what happens.Again, thanks for sharing your experience.

Curious to hear your interpretations of those they do look great. Currently waiting on the black psvane 6ca7t matched quads to arrive. I enjoy the JJ's but prefer reissued Mullards and am curious to see how the psvane's rate.

RR, I agree that Decware should not be in the tube upgrade business. But I don't necessarily share that assessment on the Treasures I bought. My experience may not be typical, but the two matched quads I bought from Grant Fidelity have/had beautiful SQ. Nor were they ever noisy. And I until I broke one a couple of weeks ago, they were performing flawlessly day in and day out. Is it worth the near-$300 differential between them and a matched JJ quad? For most, probably not. For me, the problem is the long-term ROI on a set of tubes that probably need to be replaced every year or so [as Lon pointed out elsewhere], not the actual sound or build quality. If someone has the means, and they were still available, I would encourage them to try the Treasures, or the newer T-II gray bottle successor.

I look forward to your thoughts on the Psvane TII. I have almost gone there but am eager for more input. In the context of your successful Treasures, and JJ backup, unless you ran the JJ 6CA7 for 150 or more hours, I don't think you have really heard them...For me the breakin was sort of rough taking a long time for them to show themselves. Not that they might be better or worse than others, but I don't think they sounded really good for a long time. Interestingly, on reflection, the cryo'd set from Cryoset was I believe notably better in this way....

Will, although I thought the JJs sounded pretty good, I don't for a minute thinbk I gave them proper break-in. And what I do know is that I gave the Treasures all the time in the world. One of the more difficult aspects of tube-rolling is that, even if one breaks tubes in, and then carefully catalogs their Time In Circuit, when you start to swap them back and forth, it is very difficult to keep a relatively even playing field between the tubes one is comparing. Even with two Toriis at my disposal, this is difficult to do, to the point where it starts to feel more like a time sink than a pleasant experiment. I try to keep notes of my listening evaluations, and I refer to those frequently, but eventually, the desire simply to immerse in the music is much more compelling.

That is why the viewpoints and experience of others with similar equipment is so important. And further why in this forum in particular, the Zen voice to which we are all exposed, the full spectrum of gear produced by Decware [not just an amplifier], and the depth of detailed experience shared, provides a rich common environment in which we can meaningfully evaluate each others' input.

I always go ahead and struggle through the burnin, on power tubes especially, those being more difficult in my book to come out. But then it is out the window...so I only keep up with knowing it is burnt in or not, then it is all sound.....

Will, you are a stouter man than I. I would not have the patience to swap in and out all the power/output tubes I have. Makes me wonder if I ought to have a "naked amp board," that I could leave running somewhere for burn-in. I know PG&E would like that.

Ouch! That would be painful! I buy them one at a time..... adjust with other tubes for good sound through burnin, sometimes adjusting a bit as they get better, and then they are done and I understand the signature pretty well.

At first I thought the Treasures gave me a bit more warmth then the JJ's. Then after one tube started hissing, I sent them back and the JJ's seemed lacking. Later put them in the Tresures again when I received the replacement back from Decware and all was good until one tube started hissing again. This time when I replaced them with the JJ's, it was a revelation. They sounded so good, transparent, revealing and with a nice sparkle that was not there with the treasures. They seemed to give music life. I don't miss the overpriced Treasures one bit. I still have the set of Treasures that I will sell if someone wants them for cheap. They have less then 200 hrs on them.

I think the JJ's needed that extra time to burn in. I just ordered some of the cryo JJ's Lon and Will talk about from cryoset.com.

As for chinese tubes, I absolutely love the Shugang 274B preffered series rectifiers from the Tube Store. But, I did have a noisy one that was ringing. However, they have a 6 month guarantee and I was shipped a replacement right away. They are more and more addictive with each passing month. Really happy.

Well, I broke down and did exactly that as well—ordered some Cryoset JJs [the ones I have on hand are not cryo-ed], and while at it, I decided to try your recommendation of the Shuguang 274B from The Tube Store. Looking forward to trying them.

I wonder if you were running the 274Bs with the Treasures when shifting to the JJs and they sounded more revealing. Those 274s are interesting...very open and big to me, but not too cool either... also particularly revealing, without that sort of tight tinselly thing the Ruby 5U4Gs can have..They would surely make those breaking in JJs different compared to the NOS Russians, or most any other rectifier for that matter. I found the JJs got better for a couple hundred hours, finally sounding without restraint or particular color...very good flow finally.

I hope you like the cryo'd JJs. I think they will fit the things that you finally heard in the other JJs even better, with all the good stuff a little better, unless you like the subtle distortions...I found the cryo more solid, more revealing, more easy-flow, blacker, etc....and I recall they burned in easier too!

I got some cryo'd valve art 274B from him right before you posted on the preferred ones. The cryo'd seem really good too.

And today they are here! Props to Ron and the USPS both. I paid no extra for that speed. I also like the fact that the tube boxes are labeled with the matched measurement and a Cryoset sticker. Not my first order but I managed not to notice that before. All he needs now is a date code. I am finding tube inventory management a bit of a challenge for any tube I do not properly enter into my database. For those I miss, the thoughtfulness and thoroughness of the vendor goes a long way.

Well sure, though many owners of tube electronics lack access to a good tube tester. I don't think anyone here suggested tubes should not be tested, and I don't think anyone suggested that NOS tubes were somehow less in need of such testing. I know that's not my viewpoint.

Better vendors like Jim McShane, Upscale Audio and others test, match and burn in tubes for 24 hours or so and and cull the rejects. This applies to NOS as well as new production. Yes, there were QC issues in the past. Tubes were in everything and they were mass produced. Not all circuits required rigorously tested tubes. The 'best' Amperex 7316's were pulls that came from, or were intended for, industrial equipment and were carefully tested before they were installed. Many are labeled HP etc.

No reflection on Decware because the source of the Treasure tubes may have been issue.

Can't speak to the Decware Treasures issue, as I bought matched and tested quads from Grant Fidelity and have had very good experience with mine. As said before, better that Decware not be in the exotic tube business.

Just in time for the weekend! I ordered a quad of cryo'd JJ 6CA7s and cryo'd Valve Art 274B from cryoset yesterday; I've not heard the cryo'd version of either and I think it's time. I have the advantage of my Torii Mk II in my other system, I can drop them in there for a while and then experience them in the Torii Mk III a bit broken in.

My plan, too, Lon, though one of my two Toriis is actually headed back to the shop. Like my Ultra, it seems to have experienced a transformer failure. Steve suspects a poltergeist, or perhaps more mundanely, an electrical issue. I naturally accused the ex-wife. For such things are lifetime warranties made.

Will be interested in your take on the cryo-ed Valve Art 274B. I personally like the idea of finding quality current production tubes that meet my needs and are not priced in the stratosphere. Chasing NOS is moderately entertaining, for a few nanoseconds anyway, and the exotics, even when audibly better, are [at least, for me] difficult to justify over the long haul.

Never tried the treasures but I have really been enjoying the black psvane 6ca7t's. They are my fav's compared to jj's (non cryo'd)and reissued cryo'd mullards (only 75 or so hrs. in and they did not sound good for the first 10-15 hrs.) keep getting better the more I play them. Deeper soundstage and the instruments seem to resonate as they would in a live acoustic setting especially string instruments. JD

OrangeCrush, your comment about the black PSVane is exactly why I was on the blog today. They do seem to "resonate." You refer to it as "live" but I'm starting to hear it as artificial. Wondering if anyone has found a tube that has the fullness in the mid a bass that these do, but are cleaner, like an EL34? Or, has anyone tried to Cryo their 6ca7t's with sonic success? I had one of each (PSVane 6ca7t's on the left and JJEL34 on the right) in my amp last night listening to jazz and vocals and it was really cool. I got the clarity and magic of the EL34 and the fullness of the 6ca7t's. But the music, was, of course, conically disorganized as a result. And I was afraid I'd break the amp so I went back to the PSVane 6ca7t's.