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"Youth should be radical. Youth should demand change in the world. Youth should not accept the old order if the world is to move on. But the old orders should not be moved easily -- certainly not at the mere whim or behest of youth. There must be clash and if youth hasn't enough force or fervor to produce the clash the world grows stale and stagnant and sour in decay."

-William Allen White

THE NEWS FLOW

Oct. 20, 2009. Documents obtained by the Office of the Information & Privacy Commissioner of Ontario. Email exchanges between President Allan Rock
and publisher of the Ottawa Citizen Jim Orban
reveal how the University of Ottawa controls the media.

Monday, November 10, 2008

The True Face of Allan Rock

On Monday Nov 10, a letter addressed to President Allan Rock entitled "President Rock, Please Stop" was released to 36 000 students, 2 300 faculty members, and 3 000 administrative staff. The letter linked to this recording. The events surrounding the recording are listed here in reverse chronological order (read bottom up), with links to the email exchanges following and leading up to the incident.

(Edit: Due to much confusion by the readers, it is emphasized that all the background info is provided here: click the links to open the email correspondences. Edit: links are now more obvious.)

Tuesday, Oct 28: Marc Kelly visits Allan Rock's office. Allan Rock refuses to speak to him, but promises to respond by email.Monday, Oct 27: The Student Federation condemns the University of Ottawa for their flagrant mistreatment of students, in particular for the deliberate abuses of Marc Kelly and Ting Ting Wang. The Student Federation demands the reregistration of Marc Kelly. The Student Federation demands that the administration stop interfering with Marc Kelly's appointment by the Student Federation to the Senate Appeals Committee. (read the letter)

334 comments:

Marc, you're a presumptuous, self-absorbed asshole. Like Rancourt. Like Stojanovic. No one will miss you when you're gone and your fantasy that you can propagandize and abuse your way into getting whatever you want, even when you don't deserve it, is just that - fantasy.

If you think invading someone's private office after being told you cannot go in is going to win you points or make your awful behaviour seem somehow heroic, I guess you're a lost cause.

Anonymous #2, maybe you could fill all of us in on what you mean by the terms "propagandize", "abuse" and "fantasy". Cause I can't imagine.

Maybe the fantasy is an institution funded by a mix of tax dollars and student tuition that is open to criticism and evolution? And the propaganda? Must be referring to Marc's voicing of his experience as a student and his analysis of that experience...then asking for others to share theirs??? And as for the abuse, I guess it was Marc's unfathomable decision to bring a voice recorder as protection with him at all times when dealing with an administration who seems to have convinced you that their offices are private...when they are nothing but. They are all of ours, they serve us, and it is up to us to make them realize that.

So please, in the future, I would really appreciate some examples of what you're referring to, otherwise I am forced to fill in the blanks as I did above. Thank you ANONYMOUS.

And thank you Marc for having the courage to do this on your own. I have no doubt that as reality asserts itself on our society in the form of a crushing economic depression, people will start to realize how much our Universities have failed us in their insistence in maintaining all things same and not reflecting critically on the world both beyond and inside its walls. And maybe that is what it will take for us to appreciate your sacrifice.

i like the fact that the people for Marc Kelly are morons that are not in physics and have no idea whats going on the department and the people who are the anonymous are the people of physics and actually well place to see whats going on. Way to be bias to your cause Jesse maybe you should research a bit before arguing and join physics. Because for all i know your a lonely little activist frustrated about the world and has is head so far up his ass that he believes all the little conspiracies that come back but is to stupid to make actual research on the topic. Good job!

This is not an easy thing you are doing, Marc - standing up for what you believe in, choosing your own way of being heard and on top of that having to fight fellow students who attack your strength and bravery in order to feel better about themselves...

I find sad that you admire Marc's bravery without actually looking at any facts or come to find out whats going on. If we would find his fight just he would not be alone with Rancourt and his disciples but instead would be a 100 physicist supporting him. I've stop respecting activists for the simple reason that from what I've seen in the past year was that they you believe anything your told without actually making research. You lie to get support like Marc Kelly does and trust me there is proof do you think the department kept records and I couldn't believe how many things Marc made up even before that i didn't have much respect for him but know hes rock bottom for me. I just can't wait until the proof comes out of how much I lied and made up stuff. I got a friend that could check if this tape is legit and see how low you can be Marc.

The SFUO's Student Appeal Centre has in many cases dealt with this kind of treatment. Of course, we are not ostracized to the extent that Marc has been, but daily, we witness the university administration's tactics: strait up not responding to students, hoping they will go away; intimidating and demeaning students who are simply asking for help and understanding; refusing students the right to meet administrators ranked high within the hierarchical structure.

We met the president once, early during the year, in order to present him with our highest priority cases... he said we would "look into some of the problems and try to find some solutions." We later followed up with him in that regard, but he didn't get back to us.

How can you find it sad that I admire Marc? From what I can decipher from your incoherent post, you seem to think you know (and understand) both sides of the issue (Marc's perspective vs. the university's perspective). Yet, I don't think you do know (or understand)... anything, really; because all you have brought to the table is the statement (not necessarily factual) that Marc has lied. Why weren't you able to back that up with the 'proof' you speak of? Maybe I can't wait for it to be released as well...

I'm really upset about all of this and could say so much but I'll keep it short. I don't study science but I still have respect for it, unlike this character. If Mark Kelly wanted to do some sort of spiritual journey he's not at the right place. Why not go to St Paul's, or better yet, Somalia, where he could learn the real meaning of violence! And if it's decided that he can continue his "research" at U of O then I'm out.

Well I would like ot thank the SFUO for showing their support for you by sending me once again another email I don't give a damn about. SFUO is the most self-fulfilling organization I have ever had the displeasure to fund. One thing to talk about freedom of speech and opression of personal views, well to open up that old can of worms, these are the same assholes who helped censor military adverts in the fulcrum.

Also, based on the audio clip alone, I can agree with the above posted presumptuous, self-absorbed asshole description. You sound more like a smart ass trying to prove a point rather than someone who is sincerely discouraged by his current predicament.

I agree with the above posts. I have already been informed of this issue in two previous emails as well as in when reading the Fulcrum. I am all for keeping up to date with current university issues, but I've been badgered enough on this one. I am NOT involved in this issue, nor do I wish to be. I did not appreciate the email I received this morning, in fact, listening to that recording and reading what you had to say only made me want to side with President Rock. Seriously - recording your conversation? What do you think you are, CSIS?

What a complete waste of my time. I fully support Allan Rock. I think his letter of apology gives a good idea of what is going on. I think it's a pity this cocky student should try to intimidate him so early in his post. He has lots of stuff to deal with no doubt as he is knew. That you don't get a response by e-mail immediately is to be expected. You were rude and disrespectful. I think the SFUO should not have supported this student. I think the SFUO once again shows how lop-side its opinions and actions are in favor of students at the expense of reason.

This, like the Rancourt case, is going to end up in court and I'm pretty sure this court will find Mark was right all along.

The university can't just deregister a student because his Honour's thesis project isn't acceptable! That's like saying: you failed this exam, so we're kicking you off campus! How is that not a misuse of power?

Hi anonymous. Thank you for bringing attention to one of the central issues (instead of brainlessly attacking my character...)

Abuse of power.

It is highly unorthodox, and quite tyrannical, for a University to deregister a student. A University is a financial exploitation machine: that is, it is to the benefit of the institution to fail a student, and keep the students money.

I was given a complete refund. (Even though the 100% financial credit deadline had already passed.)

For a University to behave so unnaturally, there must be political reasons.

"Suppression of dissent is undesirable in society for a variety of fundamental reasons. Freedom of speech is a cardinal rule for a free society. Dissent is absolutely essential to allow all points of view to be given and considered. Censorship plays a central role in the control of speech and other forms of human expression, often by government intervention..."

The e-mail sent out this week-end was the most useless thing I have ever received on my e-mail account at the University of Ottawa. Not only do we receive no background information on the event so that we may exercice our own judgement on the matter but the content feels obnoxious and abusive to the President. Indeed, I have never heard of anybody just "walking" in the President's office with such an undertone and political objective to ridicule the President. Not only do we not know what he was doing in his office but we don't know who was with. Perhaps he was with other distressed students who were more cooperative in their approach or at least willing to see both sides of a story. Marc Kelly, you are a disgrace to the student body. Peaceful encounters are far more productive with the administration than ridiculing them and affronting them agressively. I have no pity for you...

The email that I received this morning did not describe any of the events leading up to this confrontation in Mr. Rock's office. How can I be expected to sign when I have no information about the issue. Is there somewhere that I can read about your reason for barging into his office?

Do you record all you conversations with teachers when you are simply requesting something? Who do you think you are emailing all the students about this. Don't you think we have more important things to worry about than whether YOU get into the Faculty of Science again? I don't think you were targeted. It sounds to me like you forced your way into Allan Rock's office and then got what you wanted when he yelled at you to get out. Big fucking deal.

How the hell did you get my email address added to the 2010 list?Also, what on earth are you doing spamming the student population (or not, I am not a student of UO) with unsolicited email, without context or information?I would hope that you send an apology out on that listserve for abusing its existence.

To anonymous (posted 5:49)If the email we all recieved was useless, why are you responding? The purpose was to give EVERY student an equal opportunity to witness the situation because we as students have a right to know how we are being treated. Marc Kelly has the right to share his problems with the administration. In fact, at this point I think it was owed to us. Now the president owes us his side of the story. Although, to be honest, I'm confident there's nothing he can say to convince me and many other student out there. MARC KELLY - I support you. It may seem like alot of people just want ot ignore the situation, but many students feel that this injustice should not be swept under rug. Do NOT feel alone, and KEEP demanding your rights. You're standing up for every student when you stand up for yourself.

"The email that I received this morning did not describe any of the events leading up to this confrontation in Mr. Rock's office. How can I be expected to sign when I have no information about the issue. Is there somewhere that I can read about your reason for barging into his office?"

Chloe: The background information is provided on the blog. The email correspondences following and leading up to the incident are posted. Please visit the links below the recording. Please feel free to ask specific questions if you would like more detail.

It is no less than apparent that Marc would have clearly identified his research if the University of Ottawa did not have legitimate grounds for deregistering him.

That said, I am highly suspicious of Marc and his "crusade" against the indiscriminant oppression of the university over its students. The use of inflamatory remarks and blatant exaggeration do not help your cause, Marc.

How about my money going toward the SFUO to protect students' rights is actually invested to defend students with legitimate cases, rather than sinkholes like this one.

If nothing else, this entire episode demonstrates the greater need for discretion as far as defending student rights are concerned.

If we, as students, are going to rally against the domination of the evil university hierarchy, maybe we could find some legitimate grounds to operate on?

Wow. Where are all these people complaining about spam from the University when we recieve invitations to conferences on topics which have nothing to do with our studies, or invitations to attend parties organized by depts we aren't members of?

I, for one, was quite happy to recieve this email. I wasn't aware this was going on and I find it quite distressing that it could! This is an important topic that we all should know about!

concerned student, you said "If we, as students, are going to rally against the domination of the evil university hierarchy, maybe we could find some legitimate grounds to operate on?"

So you are going to pick and choose which students to support and which ones to not support? It's okay if the admin deregisters Mark, cause he's an arrogant troublemaker that goes into offices when the doors are open to ask the president why he got deregistered. But if that were to happen to someone respectable with good manors who always wears a nice tie well then we would have to protect them now wouldn't we!

Yeah, lets start picking and choosing who to protect and stand up for, based on our prejudices.

"So you are going to pick and choose which students to support and which ones to not support?"

Well, obviously. You have answered your own question, anon. Defending a student like Marc, whose selected research clearly extended beyond his field of study, and was, essentially, completely unrelated to his education, is counter-productive for the SFUO and the entire student body.

While the administrative staff may have operated outside their appropriate powers in Marc's case (a serious infraction...), his deregistration has not been demonstrated, by the SFUO or Marc, as unjust.

Therefore, should the SFUO (i.e. in representation of the student body) be trying to have Marc reinstated to perform whatever research he likes, no matter how qualified (or not) he, or that research, may be?

The focus of the SFUO should be on the abuse of power to limit Marc's appointment to the Senate Appeals Commitee or lock him out of his office, not to allow Marc to literally "do whatever he wants", which is obviously what this is all about.

Although I sympathize with your situation, I don't see how you have the right to send a mass email to all students at the university. I'm not involved in your situation, and I don't want to be. You are outraged by the abuse of power by administration, but sending out a mass email and expecting all students to care and become activists on your behalf is also an abuse of power and highly presumptuous.

From what I gather this is the situtation. Marc has been expelled for an unethical research project, the exposion stands for the remainder of the present semester, he was fully refunded his tuition money even though the expellsion happened after the passing of the full reimbursement dead line, the SUFO supports Marcs fight against the university and the university supports itself again just another student who wouldnt fit in the convenient mold. Or so it has been presented to read this way. This case illustrates perfectly the power of the individual and that of the institution! Marc is attempting to rally support from his peers through a letter to the director while offering the students to which he is reaching out to very little consideration. Ask your self ; are we aware of the situation, are both sides presented, what can we do, what do you want us to do, how can this case be generalised to the student body as to incite action from its members. Consider our mentality in this day and age - it doesnt affect me now why should i care? - Its all relevant and instead of calling you names for ur efforts to rally support to ur cause I'd like to see you really make an example of yourself in our names and find a way to fight ur fight while getting ur people (students) to stand behind you. If ur truely in the right you will prove it to us first as opposed to showing us how wrong the opponant is. Build ur case n let us decide. Positive action brings positive change, attack propaganda brings about agression and resent and not necissarily where u wanted it either!

I think you need to send out another email explaining why in the hell Mr. Rock would deregister you against your will. What "discrimination" did you suffer? So far, as a student bystander, all I know is that you barged into the President's Office unannounced and he told you to get out. Sounds a little fishy, explain.

concerned student you said "whose selected research clearly extended beyond his field of study, and was, essentially, completely unrelated to his education"

How the fuck would you know what's best for someone else's education!? You are saying you know what's best for Mark's education!? Please tell everyone then! How do you know this? Do you know Marc? Do you even know what his research is? Do you know anything?

Do not contact me at my email address. I have no idea how you are getting student email addresses but STOP.I am a student and I have heard of you from other students. If you do not fulfill course requirements you do not pass, NOT IFS ANDS OR BUTS. That's how it works. We all take courses we think are bullshit and study wasting our precious time that we could be doing other things. That you think you are above the curriculum is obnoxious. You deserve to fail PHY3355 or whatever the course code is. If you do not agree with the system, you should not be in the system. Clearly this is the end result you have accomplished for yourself.If you really think your project is acceptable, you should see if other universities would consider it acceptable material. You have made it very clear that you are up and beyond the university. Perhaps now you will learn your lesson that there are guidelines you must follow when you re-enroll to this or another university.

"You are saying you know what's best for Mark's education!? Please tell everyone then! How do you know this? Do you know Marc? Do you even know what his research is? Do you know anything?"

...I, like 99% of the people that will read about this case, only have access to the filtered* information Marc and his proponents decide* to show us. That said, in the articles he chose* to disseminate, it is indicated the research he wanted to conduct had to do with the impacts of the teaching structure on students learning.

Now you tell me where that fits into physics. Actually, that sounds alot like the social sciences, hmm...

Youre right though - I dont know whats best for Marc's education. I do, however, know whats best for my education (and people like me) who have or may have to submit legitimate complaints against the university that will be diluted by Marc and his crusade against "injustice".

"I think you need to send out another email explaining why in the hell Mr. Rock would deregister you against your will. What "discrimination" did you suffer? So far, as a student bystander, all I know is that you barged into the President's Office unannounced and he told you to get out. Sounds a little fishy, explain."

The discrimination that Marc suffered can be understood by watching this video.

The history and background surrounding the office incident can be understood by reading the email correspondences linked on the blog

This site and the email we have received is pure manipulation of the truth in order for Mark Kelly to bully his way into a degree. It demeans the work of other university students who I hope will use their critical reasoning skills while reading this propaganda. How convenient that nowhere in the text of the email or in the main text of the page does he explain the nature of his research. We do not get Allen Rock's side of the story nor do we get anything but a one-sided view of the process. I am not fooled.

I suspect that all of this fuss is brought on by Kelly himself to manufacture his point. He gets everyone around him worked up on purpose to lend credit to his weak research on manipulating beliefs, which quite simply has nothing to do with physics. Had he had the sense to pursue a philosophy, economics (or even math) degree instead, the result might have been different but he wouldn't have gotten the attention he wanted.

This is a waste of everyone's time and I am offended that this was forwarded to my email account against my will. It is an abuse of the email list. I have unsubscribed (even though I had never subscribed in the first place).

Can you do me a favor and stop sending me unsolicited emails? I have thesis work to do and getting these messages is like being asked if I need a pill to keep my girlfriend happy. Sometimes I struggle with members of the university community as well. The difference is that I don't assume that everyone wants to know about my problems. Please remove me from your email list.

"Wow. Where are all these people complaining about spam from the University when we recieve invitations to conferences on topics which have nothing to do with our studies, or invitations to attend parties organized by depts we aren't members of?"

These are sent from the University, not an individual with the clear intent of trying to gain public support to the little mess he's found himself in. Seek another means to gain people's attention that isn't obnoxious and invasive and you may find more people willing to listen to your plight.

This site and the email we have received is pure manipulation of the truth in order for Mark Kelly to bully his way into a degree. It demeans the work of other university students who I hope will use their critical reasoning skills while reading this propaganda. How convenient that nowhere in the text of the email or in the main text of the page does he explain the nature of his research. We do not get Allen Rock's side of the story nor do we get anything but a one-sided view of the process. I am not fooled.

I suspect that all of this fuss is brought on by Kelly himself to manufacture his point. He gets everyone around him worked up on purpose to lend credit to his weak research on manipulating beliefs, which quite simply has nothing to do with physics. Had he had the sense to pursue a philosophy, economics (or even math) degree instead, the result might have been different but he wouldn't have gotten the attention he wanted.

This is a waste of everyone's time and I am offended that this was forwarded to my email account against my will. It is an abuse of the email list. I have unsubscribed (even though I had never subscribed in the first place).

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lol, looks like this guy is using this incident to model the dynamics of reaching a consensus. maybe he plugged some numbers in and thinks he can predict when enough students will agree with him that he can make the administration cave in.

Most of us here criticize either President Rock or Marc. I say you have to look at both sides before writing down any useful comments. Although Marc's side is unfair, and perhaps, unjust, but that doesn't mean he can barge into someone's office and voice record the conversation without mutual agreement; then posting the record online. Yes- we all heard the upset and harsh tone of President Rock. And I think that the tone of his voice and the way he spoke to Marc was not fair.Perhaps we should look at his side too? We can't just assume him as the perfect president. We don't know what he was going through at the time.

Marc- ... couldn't you turn your anger towards those who actually kicked you, not to someone who you are requesting for help???? Do you really think that President Rock will have the same response to you as he might have prepared days ago which maybe, he was going to reply to you but due to your rampaging behaviour into his office, you made him discard his message????

Those not in physics, reading all this as presented... should dig a little deeper before signing on.

The problem is not with your issue..but with your approach. The overzealous offensive stance of Dr. Rancourt has leaked into many of the students that follow him. I am not against his views, but against his methods for change.

Things will not change in a day, a week, or a semester. Choose your battles. If you start attacking the department on every little semantic issue... you discredit yourself. Stop all assignment work and fail to attend your final... you discredit yourself... and shoot yourself in the foot.

Instead of the boycotting, why not work on the creation of new, more discussion based classes where students can come in contact with more researchers? And not enroll 10 year olds this time.. again... you just discredit yourself. Rather than having your courses blacklisted.. you could show the university a better way.. by working WITH the administration, rather than against them - consider a little honey mixed in with your rancid vinegar. See courses in Biochem and CMM for example, seminar and discussion based courses are taking over in those departments.... with positive and keen professors leading the way.

-Anonymous physics student... anonymous for the same reasons listed above by others.

Umm...having spent most of my annoyingly boring stats class reading all of this, i still feel something is missing....

I dunno about you guys but from what i've read it seems a bit...'random' that the department would just kick him out for no reason....

What was the research about anyways? All i've read on it is:Marc’s research is aimed at understanding how the governance of a department, and howthe structure of a classroom influence the progression of Physics. I mean this could obviously piss off a lot of people.

Reading through your email exchange with the department, I understand the situation a lot better. I wish you would post your older email exchanges as well, actually. It's very revealing to read the way that you pursue this. You were kicked out because you're an asshole, flamboyantly so, and you deserve exactly what you got.

I don't have time to spend wasting around reading up on the issue! For the e-mail to be effective a little background information would have been appreciated because for a student who knows nothing of this matter, only hears some activist complaining. Without knowing enough to make a decision.

MGA said... ..What was the research about anyways? All i've read on it is:Marc’s research is aimed at understanding how the governance of a department, and howthe structure of a classroom influence the progression of Physics. I mean this could obviously piss off a lot of people.

Certainly could! Especially since it would be some of the most bias research ever conducted. I mean.. a guy who dismissed is assignment work and final exam... to prove what at best?... that one particular student may not benefit from assignment work?.. we all learn differently... N=1 doesn't give the best statistics. Ridiculous methods for change. I could just see the attack propaganda his research project would entail. Oh wait.. none of us would likely see it anyway.. seeing as how a paper and poster session would be against his moral standard. Bleed for attention somewhere else Mr. Kelly.

A modest suggestion for the university to avoid such complications: help students who follow the proper processes.

I have been directly threatened by a professor a year and a half ago. I did not send a e-mail to all students, but I immediately started following the steps to do an official complaint, and eventually an appeal.

I had the time to write a thesis, graduate, and almost finish a semester at another university, and my complaint is stalled in the University of Ottawa system.

In fact, Marc Kelly got a letter of apology while I'm still waiting for any response.

Does the university really want to send the message that people need to adopt Marc's tactics to get a response at all?

This is completely ridiculous. WHY is a pathetic whiney email being sent to MY personal student account? Sorry Marc, whoever the hell you are, but I really have no interest in your sob story that, when I actually read up on the subject, seemed quite idiotic. I didn't like the way my essay was marked last week and talking to my prof about it after class didn't help much...but I'm sure as hell not about to send out slanderous emails to the entire student body. Ugh...get a life dude.

I'll first start by saying that I'm glad to have received this email, because I like to be informed of events such as this happening on campus.

However, that said, I'll agree with previous comments about this email having been delivered without any contest or explanation. There are links, yes, and I visited them in an effort to understand the situation. After about 25 minutes of my time, I haven't been able to determine much more than Marc was deregistered for his research project, and nobody seems willing to communicate with him about it.

Fair enough, but there is still information missing. I'd like to know the topic of Marc's research project. I'd like to know the details of his activism. I'd like to try and determine why, perhaps, the Physics department and the Faculty of Science may feel justified in their actions.

One may argue that this information is not important, and that the real issue at hand is the flagrant mistreatment of a student. I'll agree to that to a degree, and also agree that yes, no student should be treated this way.

However, by not providing this information, a one-sided argument is being presented, and I feel it is unfair to only partially inform students in hopes to gain their support.

I see a lot of blind following by students at this university across a wide range of controversial issues, and it frustrates me that often, many students on either side of the argument are simply not informed enough to really be arguing anything at all, and so I'd like to request that whoever is in charge of providing information about Marc's actions, be it Marc himself, make an effort to change this and provide us with all the information, that we may have a complete understanding of the situation.

I don't understand why everybody is complaining about not having enough information on the issue. All of the information is available on this Web site. I had no trouble finding it. Mark's research is posted online! http://marckelly.uottawa.googlepages.com/test

As for the other side of the story not being presented, the reason is because Marc doesn't KNOW the other side of the story! They refused to explain themselves! How can he be expected to present their side of the story if they won't give him it?!

As for Marc recording his encounters, he was only doing that to back up his story with PROOF. It adds a lot of credibility to his case. If this goes to court, he now has some admissible evidence that will help prove his case. He is not a police officer, so he does need consent or a warrant to record the conversation. Honestly, people, get real.

As for Marc barging into Mr. Rock's office, I think he was justified in doing so. He repeatedly tried to request an urgent meeting with Mr. Rock, and his requests were denied! What else was he supposed to do?! If Mr. Rock had just agreed to speak with him, the whole encounter could have been easily avoided. I actually thought that Marc was very polite and respectful while speaking with Mr. Rock.

If the same thing happened to me, I would have done exactly what you're doing, Marc. I have always hated people in positions of authority who abuse their power, especially after I was prevented from getting an honours French immersion diploma in high school due to the administration's prejudice against me. (They hated the fact that I always stood up for myself.) Don't let all of these negative people discourage you. You didn't put a gun to their head and force them to read the e-mail, so they really can't complain about receiving it. They could have just ignored or deleted the e-mail instead of whining like babies.

I am still very confused about what the actual issue is that you are so pissed off about and regardless, that doesn't mean you need to slander the president of the university. He said that he would respond via email and you should have followed procedure and waited for his reply, not barge into his office and make a nuisance of yourself.

I was unaware of any conflict regarding Alan Rock before this morning.

After reading the email and listening to the recording, I can only say that I like him more. He kept a very cool temperment despite the intrusion. The self righteous nature of the man inviting himself into his office was enough to make ME angry, and I don't even know him.

As a side note, does you understand the definition of "violence"? A man's restrained frustration does not constitute violence in any way.

If there is some reason that Alan Rock is wrong to expect privacy in his own working environment, some actual reason this man is a tyrant, you have failed to communicate it.

All I can see is a self important student trying to drag 40,000 people into his own pissy little tantrum. All I can see is an underhanded attempt to make Alan Rock lose his cool on tape. That is not a defensive measure (as some stated), its an insidious attack, and I have lost some respect for the student federation due to it.

After reading all of this, I do not understand what precipitated this conflict. Perhaps if there was a good reason to drag the entire Ottawa U community into this, the focus should be on that, as opposed to your arbitrary feelings.

(as sent to listserv)Dear list administrator;The fact that I am a registered graduate student at the University of Ottawa should not give any ONE of the "36000 Students, 2300 Faculty Members, and 3000 Administrative Staff" the license to send me bulk emails about their personal grievances. If your listserv is used by even a handful of the recipients of Marc Kelly's "Open Letter to Allan Rock" to reply to him, the replies will likely end up disseminated throughout the entire list as well, and so on. This is not a conversation I wish to be a part of on an ongoing level, and it fits my definition of SPAM nicely.

To be specific, I was unaware of Marc Kelly's situation or vendetta against the university, but after reading his pompous, martyr-esque self-righteous diatribe, his immature blog, and, most amusing of all, his "selected notes from research" (http://marckelly.uottawa.googlepages.com/test) I am hardly surprised at his situation, nor do I sympathize with it. The university is a place of academic discourse, and while that can sometimes include mild amounts of pretension, the level of immaturity and reactionary, self-referential politics, and lack of any genuine science in Kelly's so-called "research" is absurd. I am sure if I was interested enough to delve deeper into the reasons behind Kelly's deregistration, I would still support it, but I am not involved, and didn't ask for his update in my mailbox. I am in my 13th year of university, working on a PhD here and teaching undergraduate courses, and I have met young men like Marc Kelly many times. I am not interested in being bored by yet another pretentious rebel without a cause unless he displays a good deal more insight and intellect than Mr. Kelly does. Please tell me how I can protect myself from receiving further emails from him. I would prefer that his emails be banned from such dissemination, but I can remove myself from your list if I have no other option.

Yours sincerely,(name and address withheld to prevent further unwanted emails)

I honestly don't know why I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this garbage. How did you get all of our e-mails? There's also no background information to your damn story in the e-mail, just a voice recording of you barging into Rock's office. I'm angry at the fact that Rock withheld from bashing in your face. Marc, you're definitely on the long list of crybabies.

OK, honestly, if everybody would just learn to READ, this wouldn't be such an issue. The reason that there is no background information in the e-mail that was sent out is because it is A LETTER TO MR. ROCK. Mr. Rock already HAS the background information, so it would be redundant to repeat it. Marc - probably through the SFUO - sent A COPY of the letter to Mr. Rock to students, faculty members, and administrative staff to inform them of the issue! The e-mail's purpose was simply to make students aware of what was going on and to make Mr. Rock aware that all members of the university community are aware of the issue! Now he knows that we'll be paying attention, so there will be more pressure on him to treat Marc with some respect. Marc requested a reply by Wednesday. If Mr. Rock does not reply by Wednesday, he now knows that there will be consequences! The entire university population is now a witness to the events. Students who are interested can find more information about the issue on this Web site. I really don't understand why this is so confusing for so many people!

Good grief;Allan Rock 'battered you emotionally'? 'stole your humanity'? 'sabatoged your political agency and praxis'?? You're a self-aggrandizing twerp with an inflated ego who forced his way into Rock's office with a tape recorder. And if the Student Federation thinks they can get away with sending your whining, posturing, unsolicited emails to the entire university, they may learn differently very soon.

This blog, your political 'praxis' and the nonsense spouted by the 'professional activist' types in this affair do not serve to enhance the popular image of either you or your pet movement.

Please reconsider your political stance in this matter- it is all sound and fury signifying nothing. There is no racist bully University. There is no great conspiracy to silence The Truth. There is no oppression; those ideas are for people who are truly oppressed - orphaned children, slaves, the downtrodden of the third world, etc...

It cheapens their pain by drawing an analogy between the actions of the U of O (which were largely fair, considering the fact that your 'praxis' isn't physics and does not meet the academic guidelines that were laid out for you before your course began) and the real oppression that takes place in the world.

There are probably refugees and people who really know oppression at the University who could tell you a thing or two about subversion and dehumanization, so please reconsider this movement and try to gain some perspective. Che Guevara impersonations and claims that the University 'stole your humanity' make you sound like an insensitive clod - stop crying over spilled milk and regain your humility.

Your actions, and the political wannabes of the SFUO are an insult to the collective intelligence of uOttawa students. We deserve better than you.

You arrogant pompous little shit. You call that violence? I commend President Rock for his restraint. You are very lucky; other people in the same situation may have chosen to beat the crap out of you for refusing to leave when asked. That, my spoiled little brat, would have been violent.

What do you expect Mr.Rock to do when you ambush him in his own office? Like the secretary said, these things are meant to be dealt with during appointments. I'm amazed that Mr.Rock showed so much restraint with you. The move on your part to distribute the audio clip to the entire University was underhanded and cheap. You've provided us with no background on the issue and expect us to stand behind you. We dont even know why your thesis was rejected!In the future keep your personal issues between you and Mr.Rock. There is no need to try and tarnish his reputation because he disagrees with you. Initially I was offended when admin suggested that you were mentally unstable, I'm starting to understand what they mean.

If you try to study Double Doubles at Second Cup, you're going to be turned away. If you want to invent your own curriculum, start your own University.

You should be glad you were deregistered from a course you would have obviously failed as you clearly wouldn't meet the criteria they've set out. You should take this time to see if it's possible to audit a class that teaches you how easy it is to get things done when you figure out how to get someone to WANT to help you. Attack and degrade are not good tactics.

You are most certainly inferior and every single faculty member superior. This is why you PAY YOUR MONEY to go and learn what they know, you fucking pompous douchebag. If you want to learn from your equals and peers, they have lots of FREE Grade 7 classes. Can't wait to see the blog about the missing lunch money.

I am completely clueless. What exactly is your subject for research within the physics department? I agree that perhaps the words/tone of Allan Rock were harsh, although I do not know the circumstances behind it. Anyways if someone could post the research topic I would be more than glad to advocate on either side of the argument... Thank you

Too true! If you 'study double doubles at Second Cup', you're cordially provided with all the materials to make your OWN double double, only better.

Now you've let the cream go sour and the coffee's cold.

The acceleration of this metaphor has ceased. The only constant in this entire equation is the wasted time quotient.

Get a life. Stop wasting the time of others. If nothing else, this whole debacle will serve to teach you that you catch more flies with honey, respect is a two way street, and that turning to pills and booze when nobody believed you crying wolf is a completely reasonable option.

Silly, silly Marc. Your proposed ''physics'' project uses nothing more sophisticated than high-school level maths, and you exepct this to be an Honours Physics thesis? The only mistake the physics department made in this case is to not just give you the F you so rightly deserve. Your proposed project is an insult to any student who ever had to write an Honours physics thesis.

You are a pathetic waste of space, Mr. Kelly. Save your 'strife' for your shrink and don't you dare suggest that you've been exposed to violence, oppression, racism, or or a plethora of other trumped up charges from you infantile mind.

As a former soldier, I've seen true violence and bore witness to people who truly deserved the sympathy of 40,000 people. You deserve what you got but chose to extend the debate to an appalling level.

Welcome to the real world; you chose a ludicrous research project, it gets refused. End of story - back to the drawing board. You use every euphemism and litigious mechanism to construct and inflate 'the system' to 'tyrannical' levels, guess what - things get difficult.

I cannot believe that you think you have the inherent right to carry on behaviour like this. I have no idea what you've actually done, but from your slanderous, accusatory, provocative, and entrapping approach, I can tell that you are desperately making a case where none really exists.

I also cannot believe that - as many others pointed out - the SFUO has backed you on this. I question their institutional validity and collective judgement. How dare they - and you - thrust this private attack of Mr. Rock on the whole student body.

I am sure that you're tactics will land you in court. Mr. Rock was a highly distinguished Federal Minister and remains a deeply respected member of the Canadian public and this University.

I'm very glad that you made yourself known to the public, so that every employer, professor, and member of the community will know what a self-righteous little shit you are.

Fuck off Marc and keep your pompous self-righteous bullshit to yourself. Or at the very least please restrict sharing this bullshit with your inner circle of friends who give a rat's ass.

I applaud Mr. Rock for maintaining such restraint when you barged into to his office unannounced and unwelcome.

Again, fuck you. I hope they don't let you back in.

Your lucky the university even tolerates you this much. Outside the ivory tower and the walls of a post-secondary institution your behavior would not be tolerated for a moment. I would love to see how you would many seconds you would last in any sort of job in the private sector.

To those saying that the letter was sent merely as a heads up informing us about the issue, and additionally to those saying that all the documents concerning the background of the issue are provided:

If I am to receive a heads up about an issue, I'd like a quick explanation of what the issue actually IS. Not just the next chapter. You can't cite a passage of a novel without giving the context. Otherwise nobody will understand what's going on.

True, the documents have (apparently) been provided outlining some background. However I should not be blamed if I haven't taken my own time to read them and educate myself as to the nature of Marc's activism, or his research.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact is that Marc has presented a very helpful brief of his involvement of the issue, but has not summarized in any way WHY the actions of his antagonists MAY be justified. I recognize that he doesn't think they are, but to assume that we will as well is unfair and does not paint a complete picture of this issue.

Selectively providing information about his exploits alone sets students up to be favourable to his cause, and is in fact a type of propaganda, whether the negative connotation of the word should be appropriate or not.

Just like to add another voice to all those who have come together in saying fuck off marc. You have waisted my time on an irrelevant conflict which was never fully explained in your mass email or your blog (I can only assume this is because you are afraid of the whole story being revealed.. whatever it may be). You have now waisted 34 minutes of my life with this totally meaningless propaganda. Please go away and fight your little guerrilla media fights somewhere where i don't have to care.

Marc, do you really think that we give a shit about you!? You deserve every bit of trouble you are in. Stop harassing us with your sob stories, and stop spamming students with these useless messages. If you weren’t acting like such a jackass, maybe people (including Alan Rock) would stop and listen. I am glad that you have been kicked out, and I am glad that this administration is standing up for itself instead of caving to your ranting and raving. This campus will be a much nicer place without you.As for hacking the university e-mail distribution system and spamming the whole campus, I hope they sue your ass for wasting all of our time, and for being so disruptive!I also commend Mr. Rock for his self-restraint – his experience and patience really showed through.

Hey Marc, have you pulled your head out of your ass lately!? In what world did you think you could act like a complete fool and get respect!? Good luck getting a job in the real world you dumbass! Sounds like a lifetime career as a student (in a different university) would be perfect for you!

I personally volunteer to guard Mr. Rock's office and kick your ass if you show up...lol.

I can understand why Mr Rock got so angry. If you read the apology from Mr Rock, you will see that this is not an isolated incident. Mr Rock says: "Although I have made it clear to you in the past that I will only deal with you in writing, you entered my office unannounced and without an appointment for the second time in as many weeks."He goes on to say: "I choose to deal with you only in writing for reasons that include, among other things, your habit of taping conversations without telling your conversants that you are doing so."Someone who makes a habit of bursting into my office and antagonizing me into losing my temper on a hidden tape isn't going to get much sympathy from me. Get a life Marc Kelly. Maybe if you'd done a little scientific research in the first place you wouldn't be in this mess.

------------------------------C L A R I F I C A T I O N S------------------------------

1. There appears to be much confusion regarding the background story of the recording.

All the background information is provided on the blog. The email correspondences can be viewed by clicking the links. A link is a piece of text that directs you to the relevant information with a mouse click. Here is an example: this link links to the definition of a link.

In the words of anonymous poster #67:

"OK, honestly, if everybody would just learn to READ, this wouldn't be such an issue. The reason that there is no background information in the e-mail that was sent out is because it is A LETTER TO MR. ROCK. Mr. Rock already HAS the background information, so it would be redundant to repeat it. [...] The e-mail's purpose was simply to make students aware of what was going on and to make Mr. Rock aware that all members of the university community are aware of the issue! [...] I really don't understand why this is so confusing for so many people!"

Marc, you have to realize that you will never get the whole community behind you on this because your reputation is very low with some of us. I realize your e-mail was in an effort to make the community aware, but I urge you to consider that this will not help your cause. I speak for many when I say that your e-mail was, in itself, a form of harrassment.

Also, a private office is not a site for confrontation, nor is a parking lot. If you wish to communicate with authority, but they refuse, seek out a mediator or a lawyer.

I also recognize the extenuating circumstances and controversy around your deregistration, your activism, etc. But watch your accusations! Discrimination? Racism? Your research would have been about DIALOGUE, which by its very essence is a SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR! Many professors would have welcomed this research outside the science faculty and, had you sought permission from the Faculty of Science, this might have been an option. Please recognize that your approach in these matters has been presumptuous, arrogant and, instead of understanding and assertive, bold and aggressive.

Lastly, I'd like to remind you that students, faculty and staff of the university community are all entitled to work and study without fear of harrassment. You're overstepping the boundaries. Please leave us alone and seek out individuals in power to help your cause instead of acting like a shit-disturber as an individual.

"As a member of the UO community, I demand that the next time such a thing happens, Rock beat the living shit out of you, you little prick, or at least have someone on standby to do so. Of course, this is what you really want, wasn't it?"

I would like to be reregistered, because I believe my deregistration was unfair.

I would like to learn, explore and create without political interference.

I would like my peers to understand the importance of freedom and democracy.

I would like my peers to be sensitive to the administrative injustices that occur daily at UofO, which affect numerous students in very serious ways, in ways often orders of magnitude more serious than my situation.

I would like my peers to understand that, regardless of my character (which many seem less than fond of), accepting the administration's power to deregister a student against their will sets a dangerous precedent that affects all students.

Yes, it is hard to believe that racism occurs and is a problem at the University of Ottawa. The Student Appeals Center, run by the Student Federation, has statistical evidence of systematic racism by the University of Ottawa.

I encourage you to contact Mireille Gervais, head of the Student Appeals Center, on the issue of racism by the University of Ottawa administration. She will be happy to answer any of your questions.

To "anonymous" of the previous post, I really think that is uncalled for. Marc Kelly has undoubtedly acted arrogantly and has bothered many students with his e-mail. But reacting to his behaviour by encouraging others to ostracize him won't be constructive. It won't help Marc Kelly deal with his problems, or help else in dealing with theirs.

Honestly, at worst the e-mail was funny, at best the whole situation is intellectually stimulating. I think we should watch out not to lynch him. After all, it was just an e-mail. (albeit a stupid and annoying one). I think Marc will learn from his mistakes enough as it is.

I urge people not to send him loads of spam or hate-mail, or to phone him to tell them what they think of him.

I find it hilarious how so many people are complaining about the invasion of their "privacy" (their ottawa U e-mail). I get tons of bullshit everyday and I just delete the stuff I don't like. I also find it hilarious how most of you are just sheeps trying act tough by telling this guy that you don't even know that he's cocky and all this.

While I do believe that there may have been a mistreatment on the part of the University with regards to your dismissal from PHY 4006, I do not believe it is necessary to involve all students in this matter. This is a private issue between yourself and the Department of Physics, which you have escalated by showing up to President Rock's office and by enlisting the help of the SFUO. It is unfair that we should all receive an email regarding your own personal issues and views on how the University deals with students, because I am inclined to believe that cases such as yours are exceptional.

Marc, your project for PHY 4006 is most certainly not scientific, and while I do not believe that to be sufficient grounds on which to deregister you from the course, I am in accordance with the Department's decision to not accept that as a valid research project.

You may have been capable of getting your status reinvoked had you chosen to offer an alternative project that focused more on the scientific aspect of your topic, but instead you chose to create the "crusade" on which you are embarking and currently spamming the entire student population in an attempt to make yourself known.

What you must realize is that in doing this, you are only aggravating the situation, and President Rock had every right to be frustrated with your disregard for his busy schedule. There is no way that you can know for sure whether or not he plans to intervene if you do not allow him adequate time to review your case.

Certainly, he will not be more inclined to help you if you continue to badger him and secretly tape record conversations he never intended on having.

If you had use more traditional means, and kept this situation between you and your faculty, you may have had some hope of being re-added to your course and of getting the mark that you feel you deserved in Dr. Harden's class. However, since you have chosen to become a nuisance to the administration, they will continue to ignore you until you go away.

If you had kept the matter private as would most people in this situation, I might have felt empathic towards you, instead I feel nothing but disdain for the actions you have taken, which I feel are far too hyperbolic and exaggerated for a matter as personal as this one.

I still wish you good luck, but any respect I may have had for the situation you are in, you have lost.

"All the background information is provided on the blog. The email correspondences can be viewed by clicking the links. A link is a piece of text that directs you to the relevant information with a mouse click."

I'm sorry, but if you wish to garner my support, then you should summarize such information, so that it's as easily accessible to me as your out-of-context recording of your run-in with Mr. Allan Rock.

As well, if you want to garner my support, don't insult my intelligence by explaining to me what a link is.

"This is a private issue between yourself and the Department of Physics"

No. This is one example of how the administration abuses their power to infringe upon the rights of students. It is not an isolated case. Injustices happens frequently in all way and forms to numerous students every day. The Student Federation is also condemning the administration for their flagrant mistreatment of student Ting Ting Wang.

My situation reveals how the administration treats students they don't like. All students should be treated with fairness and respect, irregardless of their political affiliations, their academic orientation, their cultural background, etc.

Yes, I am a troublemaker. Troublemakers are people too, and should not be differentially treated.

"Marc, your project for PHY4006 is most certainly not scientific, and while I do not believe that to be sufficient grounds on which to deregister you from the course, I am in accordance with the Department's decision to not accept that as a valid research project."

The DTPC, the committee that rejected my project, rejected my project based only on a five sentence description of the theme. The rejection was not based on the nature of the project. It was politically motivated.

Also, to say "it is not science" is absolutely meaningless. It is meaningless because you are holding an assumption about what science is, an assumption that stems from the tacit structure of your fundamental world view. I suggest you open your mind. In the words of David Bohm, the great Quantum Physicist:

"...it's arbitrary to forever limit science to what it has become today. After all, this was the result of a historical process that involved many fortuitous elements. We have to explore in a creative way what a new notion of science might be, a notion that is suitable for our present time."

"I would like my peers to understand that, regardless of my character (which many seem less than fond of), accepting the administration's power to deregister a student against their will sets a dangerous precedent that affects all students."

Thanks for the concern, but this is my fourth degree, at my fourth university, and I've seen quite a bit of academic administration myself. More than you, I suspect. I utterly accept a university's power to register a student if they deem they have just cause. Your suggestion that it is unfair to deregister a student against their will is absurd, as the only alternative would be a university which cannot rid themselves of a student for any reason. A university is a private institution with a wide variety of rules that must be followed to keep the environment safe and fair. You may not agree with the reasons for your own dismissal, but only an idiot would argue that a university has no right to ever deregister a student against the student's wishes.

I find it interesting that in an academic school such as ottawau so much attention is being paid towards bashing Marc’s character instead of looking at the situation in a mature manner. Seriously with some of these comments I’m surprised these people even got into university!And for the people who bash Marc's email as a "waste of time" why are you even taking the time out to blog here then!! Seriously come on people!!And for all the people who think this is junk mail here's a food for thought--> what if one day this happened to you and all the support you got was complaints and immature insults… Something to think about;)***PS: i would however appreciate more information on this matter, maybe even alan rock's view on the situation + any witnesses views' to draw my own conclusions*****

Mark, in reading your proposal I think you were certainly misguided in submitting that to a physics committee. However, it is quite articulate, and you may find your proposal would have been more fitting for the social sciences, particularly psychology. In fact, a proposal such as that might have been admired, not condemned by academics in the psychology department.

I don't, however, support your means of getting attention. Spray painting and secretly taping conversations of others is no way to gain the respect and support of your peers. You haven't come out looking like a hero. Not due to your message, but due to your sneaky, ingenuine means of getting attention.

Based on the information in the SFUO’s letter to President Rock, as well as Marc’s previous blog which focuses on the marking scheme of PHY3355 I have come to a further understanding of the situation. In his previous class he wished to see how the marking scheme and teaching methods affected the outcome of one’s learning ability in their class, which in this situation was physics based. Perhaps it was his own curiosity on how this subject was taught, or he himself not benefiting from his professors teaching style which encouraged his previous blog’s topic. In his previous blog you can read an exchange of emails between the students and the professors involved in this class. Included in these e-mails are views expressed by other students who wished that there was the ability to explore a different teaching method as to further understand the class topics. I would see this as further reason to explore the topic myself, as Marc choose to do in his Honours Research course. However because of his course of action he received a failing mark in this class, which he has chosen to dispute.Here is where the problem begins. The professor of the previous course in which he received a failing grade and was the subject of previous blog was Prof. James Harden, who happens to reside on the Departmental Teaching Personal Committee (DTPC).Upon the submittal of his Honours Research proposal, it was reviewed by the DTPC (for reasons unknown to the readers of this article or to Marc himself, that we know of). This constitutes as a major conflict of interest by just the reviewing of his proposal, as Prof. Harden has had previous experience with the subject matter from personal experiences with Marc in a previous class. Not to mention in my personal opinion anyone who wishes to challenge the teaching methods of any professor, let alone a specific one (as Prof. Harden may have felt) can expect quite a negative response. Furthermore Marc’s Research Proposal was rejected and he was subsequently asked to deregister from the course. After such a request was not met, for why should it when there should have been no issue with the proposal in the first place, it is a reasonable topic of study and does not only effect the students in the course study of Physics, but may as well effect the progression of other subjects in the future, he was forcibly deregistered against his will without cause. Moreover this adds to his accusation of being treated unjustly.Upon asking President Rocks assistance in the matter he received no helpful reply by the deadline asked. After several more unsuccessful attempts to talk to President Rock, Marc attempted to talk to him in person again. Given the situation could have been treated a tab bit differently, as I am sure most of you would not have had such an issue if Marc knocked on the open door instead of just walking into his office. As for the recording of the conversation, I would not see an issue with it, if he had a previous unpleasant encounter with him. Many people have done it in the past to help their case against others who have treated them unjustly. In addition to this voice recording an e-mail was sent to Marc that did not help him with his situation, nor properly apologizing, it instead blamed him for the encounter.I personally do not think any person should be treated in such respect. The situation at hand should not be completely blamed on Marc as there is neither reason to place and assign blame on anyone in this situation. He merely wished to know why he is in the situation, and how it can be remedied.He chose to send out that e-mail to everyone in hopes that everyone would see that it may not become an isolated incident in the future. For where is education going to go if we do not have the right to learn and expand our knowledge as we see fit, if we are not allowed to explore what we believe will encourage our learning experiences.In other words, his course of action could be seen as an attempt to save all forms of research, because where would we be if we were unable to discover or discuss any new finding in the world? What were to happen if previous scientist were not allowed to share their findings with the world? What if religion had continued to blackball any thoughts on everything not revolving around the Earth, or the fact that it must not be true because it does not revolve around in a perfect circle? Would we have Kepler’s Laws? Or if Newton’s theories of gravity were forever ignored? Where would we be today? What if Freud was ignored, where would our current bases of psychology be today? For God’s sake, where would be if Christians were still burned for believing in Jesus Christ?The may be extreme examples, but he’s trying to get the right to research what he feels is important to his education. Many of you may not care about the summary which I have provided; some of you may hate my personal opinion. But no one should be getting a negative response such as “Marc, Go kill yourself. –The Physics Department’ for trying to get the right to learn what he feels is important.I may not agree with the way he has gone about fighting for his cause in certain aspect, but at least respect his decision to do this. Not many people would.

I can't believe that I wasted an hour of my time with this. Might as well post a flame comment.

This whole saga would definitely draw an A+ grade for a psychology thesis, if it isn't already. I have no idea who this Marc person is, nor do I care. I refuse to read any of the "facts" you present because I frankly don't care about your plight, and your illegal recording had our class in absolute hysterics today. You are now a subject of mockery among the student body. Congratulations!

P.S. Why do you hang around campus if you're no longer registered? Get a life.

"For where is education going to go if we do not have the right to learn and expand our knowledge as we see fit, if we are not allowed to explore what we believe will encourage our learning experiences.In other words, his course of action could be seen as an attempt to save all forms of research, because where would we be if we were unable to discover or discuss any new finding in the world? What were to happen if previous scientist were not allowed to share their findings with the world? What if religion had continued to blackball any thoughts on everything not revolving around the Earth, or the fact that it must not be true because it does not revolve around in a perfect circle? Would we have Kepler’s Laws? Or if Newton’s theories of gravity were forever ignored? Where would we be today? What if Freud was ignored, where would our current bases of psychology be today? For God’s sake, where would be if Christians were still burned for believing in Jesus Christ?"

If Newton was trying to get a degree in accounting and came up with his theories in the final exam of an accounting class, He would still fail the final exam.

That is the first issue. The second is that nobody is saying Mark can't do that study. It is posted on the internet and nobody cares.

You can decide all you want how you learn, but you can't sign up to be taught, then when it isn't the way you like it...tell your teachers that they are racist tyrants.

There is a reason why most people are reacting badly towards it. His paper is equivalent to Billy Madison speaking about 'The Puppy Who Lost His Way" after being asked about the industrial revolution.

Well then the question should be asked whether Marc approached the approval of his study as a multidisciplinary project.

I thought you had to attain special permission from the faculty before doing that. Did he take the designated steps required to perform such a study while still remaining in the Physics Department?

This is the sort of information that should be given when presenting this issue. The above posted summary was actually very helpful, and exactly the type of presentation that should have been used to update students on the situation.

Instead of linking to a bunch of emails and articles and saying, "There, go spend forever figuring out why I'm upset."

"Projects other than those listed are also possible, so long as you can find a professor to supervise your work on it; if you have your own specific idea for a project, contact me or consult a professor working in the field of interest."

this issue is not just about Marc. This issue is about all of the students at the U of O. Marc is simply bringing the issue to light. We have the right to be informed. We have the right to know what the administration of our institution is doing to one of our peers.

Those of you saying that the email this morning was "spam" and that you don't care - why even comment. If you really don't care you wouldn't be coming to the site to degrade Marc. As members of the University community, we have the right to be informed of what is going on around us - these issues directly influence every one of us. Whether you support Marc or not, at least understand and respect your (and your peers') right to know.

Congratulations on challenging the status quo Mr. Kelly - you are to be commended!

I am a law student at U of O. I am obligated to say that I am not yet qualified to give a legal opinion, but in my personal opinion, Mr. Kelly's email constitutes the tort of defamation. Should Mr. Rock pursue this case, he would likely be awarded damages of approximately $5000-$10000.

The foundation of the claim would be based on Mr. Kelly's email (disseminated to 40,000 people) that Mr. Rock is, in essence, a racist, abusive, and discriminatory tyrant that views students as sub-human.

In a nutshell, the law of defamation in relation to this case is as follows:

Mr. Rock would have to prove on the balance of probabilities that Mr. Kelly's email would "lower him in the estimation of right-thinking members of society."(Sim v. Stretch). Given Mr. Kelly's extreme language, this would be easy to prove.

The onus of proof would then shift to Mr. Kelly to prove that the defamation is defensible. There are several grounds of defense, with Mr. Kelly's best refuge being the "fair comment" defense. Mr. Kelly would have to prove that his email was (1) comment, and not a statement of fact, (2) comment based on facts that are true, (3) an honest expression of Mr. Kelly's opinion of Mr. Rock, (4) in the general public interest, and (5) delivered without malice.

First, statements such as "I now understand that you do not see students as people" indicate a statement on the line between "fact" and "comment" - it could go either way.

Second, Mr. Kelly would have extreme difficulty in arguing that his comments are based on facts that are true. In addition to other accusations, it would be difficult to prove that Mr. Rock "abused" Mr. Kelly in any legal sense, or to prove that Mr. Rock was "violent." The criteria is not what Mr. Kelly thought what happened, but what a reasonable person in Mr. Kelly's position would have thought happened.

Third, it does seem that this is Mr. Kelly's actual opinion.

Fourth, the general public interest of this case is difficult to gauge. "Public interest" is difficult to define, and often refers to criticism of published works and public officials. Argument here could go either way - protecting student interests versus the public interest of personal attacks against Mr. Rock.

Fifth, it does appear that Mr. Kelly acted out of malice, with the implied intent to damage Mr. Rock's reputation. A reasonable person in Mr. Kelly's position would have understood that this would damage Mr. Rock's reputation, and the simple fact that Mr. Kelly chose to send this to 40,000 people indicates malicious intent.

Therefore, due to failure of the second and fifth elements of the defense of fair comment (and possible failure of the first and fourth elements), Mr. Kelly would likely be found to have committed defamation.

As a side note, Mr. Kelly does not have a defamation case against Mr. Rock because Mr. Rock sent a private email to Mr. Kelly. Mr. Kelly also does not have a defamation case against Mr. Major because the characterization of "mental instability" was in the context of a private conversation. It was Mr. Kelly that chose to make these characterizations public; the blame rests on himself.

Marc, I agree with you that the appeals system needs reform. I strongly disagree with your defamatory methods. You may want to look into getting a lawyer.

"propagandize and abuse your way into getting whatever you want" -Anonymous

I have no idea whether or not Marc Kelly's research is relevant. I don't know how much Marc Kelly cares about his graduation. It doesn't matter. The real issue here is the administration's refusal to communicate with Marc.

"It's in his best interest not to continue." - Allan Rock (paraphrased from French)

The administration shouldn't make this decision for a student.

"OK?" - Marc Kelly

As Allan Rock began to shoo him from his office, Marc said the above in a rebellious, adolescent tone. And while I understand the sentiments that led to this, I believe quitting the room with an exaggerated, courteous smile, there and then, would have made a more powerful argument. After all, it wasn't Marc's right to invade a private office in the first place.

Pointing fingers will not solve anything here. Everyone involved is at fault. Since miscommunication is the basis of the problem, I don't support Marc's decision in essentially encouraging students to flood Allan Rock's e-mail account. Instead I recommend that Marc breaks a communicational barrier by revealing the topic of his research. This whole situation is tangled by lies; the trivial solution is honesty... hopefully it will come before the web gets too convoluted.

Marc...you are an idiot and waste of time. You have no right to enter someone's office uninvited and record the conversation without the other party knowing that you are recording the conversation. In addition to you being a useless idiot, you proceeded to waste staff, students and faculty's time by sending an email to thousands of us. Get a life and grow up.

In the next couple of days, I will be working to show the student population how degrading, debasing and ignorant Marc Kelly's attacks on the univeristy administration (particularly Allan Rock), have been.

I believe that everyone should have a voice and an opportunity to represent and defend their opinions. Marc Kelly, however, attacks the university without base, argument, or evidence. He is looking for a battle for his own advancement, and does not support the students as he claims.

I am offended that a student would send this crap to my email. The email contained only accusations without support. It was propaganda for the sake of advancing his cause.

Marc Kelly, if you wish to present to the university and the student populace as a whole, please provide some arguments to back up your cause. Arguments do not consist of cries of "tyranny" and "despotism", nor emails out of context. By choosing what you show the students and not providing all communication, you tailor the information to present a view favorable to yourself. This, in other contexts (such as essays) would be false argumentation and would make you the ridicule of the academic world.

Please stop attacking each other. Instead of advancing your causes, you debase yourselves and make both sides look petty and childish. If you wish to gain support, the best way is to BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS.

I find it quite entertaining that Mr. Kelly has appointed himself the savior of the student population, because he thinks that his right to an education comes hand in hand with the his self-anointed right to obtain a degree however he chooses, with blatant disregard for meeting curriculum requirements.

Apparently, this is a problem that concerns the whole student population because the administration abused its power and revoked his right without explanation? As far as I am concerned, Mr. Kelly through his stunts (culminating in his barging into Mr. Rock's office) increasing in extremity and aggressiveness has established himself as a legitimate threat to the safety of the University community. Employees and students alike have a right to a safe environment in which to work and learn, that is a RIGHT. Mr. Kelly threatens that right and therefore I believe he forgoes his "right" to an education.

It also appears that through his tactics, Mr. Kelly has bought into the doctrine of another great spinster (who contrary to Mr. Kelly actually had enough charisma and intelligence to mobilize a nation) Hitler, who once said:

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"

All these accusations and this talk about injustice, racism, dictatorship etc. is a joke.

RACISM is being asked to give up your seat on a bus in Montgomery Alabama in 1955 because of the colour of your skin.

Being abducted from your family to fight for RUF forces as a young boy in Sierre Leone, in times of civil war and loosing your childhood, being brainwashed by drugs and alcohol is INJUSTICE.

Saddam Hussein, Manuel Noriega, Benito Mussolini and Idi Amin Dada are DICTATORS, I hardly think Mr. Rock or the administration deserves to be labeled with that title.

And about recording someone without their consent, I guess it's okay, I mean Martin Luther King Jr. used to do the same thing... Oh wait, he didn't. And come to think about it, he lead the civil rights movement. The only thing Marc Kelly leads is his own fantasy.

Marc Kelly is a one trick pony who purposely painted himself into a corner to try and prove an invalid point.

I have read about your case and I think you are greatly skewing the picture here. M.Rock had a right to be outraged at your antics! In fact, I respect M.Rock for his degree of restraint! I think that you have been rude and disrespectful and this invasion of his office, his private space, is just one indication of this. Oh, and I don't know how you got mine or anyone else's email address, but I certainly do not appreciate being spammed! Please stop.

You fucktard. I hope Alan Rock beats your ass next time you barge into his office without an invitation.

Mr. Rock has accomplished far more than you have (or likely ever will given your record so far). As such he deserves at least a modicum of respect from you - at the very least a respect of his privacy.

Marc, how does it feel to be berated and belittled by so many students on your blog? I hope you weren't expecting a groundswell of support for your arrogant and disrepectful behavior.

Perhaps you should have concentrated more on finishing a couple of courses instead anarchy (or whatever the hell it is that you support). I would have slightly more respect for you if you were at not in your sixth year of a four year degree program.

By the way, since you are neither a student at the U of O, nor were you ever an elected representative of students I don't know how you can label yourself as the "voice of the university". You pompous ass.

Waw, I think that takes a lot of courage, I mean to do what Marc did, and I can't believe that Mr. Rock was so rude and unapproachable, what ever it is, no body should talk to anybody like that, specially that Marc was polite, and Mr. Rock didn't even try to find out what it's all about, he just kicked him out of the office, I used to admire Mr. Rock, but now after this incident!! I would have never believe it if I didn't hear the recording. Things should change now, and only we can make it.

Wow. I fully agree with "Rock FAN"'s post. Marc, everything I know about your case I read off this blog (which is evidently biased in your favour). And I still think you're a jackass. While your thesis topic seemed very interesting, it's not physics, plain and simple, and so I think the department was right to deny you.

Furthermore, the initial issue put aside, your behaviour since is unacceptable. You can NOT get what you want by means of propaganda. You're not making a case, you're accusing and attacking. And putting a man's reputation and career on the line, you selfish bastard. You come accross as baby used to getting his own way and throwing a tantrum when he doesn't. Had it been my office you barged in, I probably would have bitch-slapped you. I fully support President Rock in this matter.

I'd also like to point out that you have no right dragging the rest of the student population into this. Especially without giving them all the facts.

Marc,I can see how a self centered boob such as you could accuse the administration of "tyranny...abuse of power...destructive bureaucracy...psychological stigmatization...systematic injustices, [and...financial exploitation." Really, I can see how perhaps you felt victimized in this way. I don't personally think you were, but I can see how you might perceive this.

HOWEVER, I don't have the slightest clue how you can think the administration has been "racist" against you. Dude, look in the mirror - you're white! Please explain.

you had a point until you went overboard and acted like a douche. I don't like being spammed and you can not record someone without their consent, its illegal. Does the name Nixon ring a bell? You do realize that until they they had no reason to expel you... but now they do. Good job.

I have a problem with the SFUO supporting and spreading such direct propaganda throughout the student body.What right have they to give my email to someone to use in their campaign? What presumption? And then after abusing their rights and privileges to infringe on my privacy they send me a message with nothing but bold accusations, a random student badgering a respected scholar, and NO FACTS.

I am sorry, but there is nothing RESEMBLING justice in this.

I may in fact sympathize with this Marc character, if I in fact knew ANYTHING about him. But you have not provided ANY sort of explanation of the original disagreement, but rather are IMPOSING your tyrannical views on me without information.

You make it seem like this Marc character is a victim; if he actually IS being victimized, then PRESENTING THE FACTS WOULD BE SUFFICIENT.

Where is YOUR pride, SFUO? Where is your dignity? Why do you insist on telling me what to think, and never seem to see that I myself am as, and potentially more, capable or rational thought and decision making than your collective.

This does not just apply to this case here, but also the CFS campaign, where I have been repeatedly told which way to vote, and not told the facts.

Why does my Student Federation not see a distinction between information and propaganda?

Why do they insist upon manipulation and grossly biased media tactics.

STOP ABUSING YOUR POWER!

You're supposed to REPRESENT US! NOT DIRECT US! NOT MANIPULATE US!

Have you no shame?!?!

I expect to NEVER receive another bit of SFUO propaganda in my email inbox again; that IS NOT why you receive funding from our tuition.

I must reinforce my core message:

SFUO, You ARE NOT fulfilling your duty as a non-partisan collective representing the interests of the students, but rather ARE IMPOSING YOUR VIEWS upon us with our financial support, and WITHOUT A MODICUM OF RESPECT for our intelligence or our capacity to make decisions, if provided THE FACTS.

The University of Ottawa has, unfortunately, the right to deregister any student if it is based on reasonable facts. I think Marc Kelly buried his head in the ground when he:

a) Taped an unannounced meeting with Allan Rockb) Published this secret recording on the Internet, without permission from both partiesc) Sent out an e-mail to the entire student body saying how Allan Rock was a horrible man (I'm paraphrasing)

Whether or not it was in good intentions, as it may have been, he flaunted basic administration and wanted to do things "his own way".

Personally, I find that this whole event has gotten way out of hand. As suggested before, Marc Kelly should get a lawyer and prepare to defend his case if he continues to bash the administration of the University of Ottawa in general..

I'm still wondering how he got all our e-mails, as the lists.ncf.ca website (which is where I got the e-mail from) does not have a public, or private (to my knowledge... anyone have proof of the contrary?) e-mailing list of students at the University of Ottawa.

And a quick remark, as said before, the recording does sound slightly edited.

Before any more people rise up to defend this "student" please read my encounter with this person.

I am not affiliated with m.k., the physics dept. the student assoc. or anyone else outside of my own department. I did not know m.k.'s name until today after reading through this craziness and watching the videos.

My dept. will remain nameless and I will remain anonymous for fear of retaliation from m.k. and his supporters.

Oct.29 two men barged into my class. One (m.k.) was wearing a box mask and a white jumpsuit, saying nothing but blaring anti-conformity messages from a set of speakers. The other was videotaping the students and professor of my class. The pair were asked to leave but would not until they were physically removed by two people. We did not give permission to be videotaped. We did not give permission to be used for propaganda. He would not tell us who he was or what this was all about. He eventually agreed (after much debate to erase the tape).

Who in their right mind would pull such a stunt on fellow students in this post Virginia Tech society? Why should his rights outweigh my rights and the rights of my classmates? I have been bothered by this event since it occurred and I can't help but think about Virginia Tech, Dawson College, Ecole Polytechnic.

M.K. took something away from me that day and I am not sorry to see him go.

Although I understand your frustration dealing with the "Institution" in question, I question your methods. I thought that perhaps I could offer you an opinion quite removed from the University.I believe you have a right to be heard. I believe you have a right to appeal all decisions you deem unfair. I firmly believe in freedom of speech as my husband and I are Military and have both served overseas to ensure that freedom is afforded to all. We have lost many friends and colleagues due to zealots who believe they too are acting in a "justified manner". I can assure you that the ends do not always justify the means.

I think you need to step back and look at your conduct in this matter. I was appalled with the recording of you bursting into the President's office. You were looking for a reaction and you got one. It is unethical to tape conversations without permission and an invasion of the other person's rights and privacy. I do not condone the President's behaviour but I applaud his apology for that conduct. There is never an excuse for rude, aggressive behaviour. You breached "good manners and decent conduct" by appearing in that man's office knowing that you were not welcome. In the real world, outside of University, it can take months, sometimes even years to resolve conflicts. You were insisting on answers immediately and dictating to people how, when and what they would do... somewhat narcissistic don't you think? You were looking to escalate the situation which is why you have been referred to as "mentally unstable". I don't know you so I am not saying that you are but you are not helping your case at all. I would suggest that you contact the ombudsman and that you refrain from inflaming the situation further.

On a more personal note... my daughter attends U of O. Although I am not always happy with the treatment she receives from staff there. I can tell you that the way you have behaved in just that one recording makes me very nervous about you representing any student at that campus. I support your right to grieve any situation that you find unfair. What I do not support is your right to interrupt my daughter's education or to create a hostile environment in which she must reside. I encourage you to pursue your case in a healthy manner while respecting my daughter's right to enjoy her University experience. My husband and I have put our lives on the line, missed our children's birthdays, spent wedding anniversaries apart, seen friends and colleagues killed or sacrifice their mental and physical health so that you may be afforded the freedoms and rights you have... try to remember that others have rights too, including the Administration at the University.

I wish you luck and urge you to seek a healthier avenue of resolution.

Whatever his situation, Mr. Kelly has no right to hijack what is supposed to be a private emailing list and use it for his own purposes, particularly when he does not provide any background whatsoever for his complaints. If the Student Federation has fascilitated this, then they can no longer claim to represent me.

This statement is not meant to discredit Mark's point, and I do think he has one (whether or not you agree with it, he got your attention). Readers should know that the SFUO sent an open letter to Allan Rock (on our website at www.sfuo.ca) regarding this and other issues in late October 2008.

Regardless of what your point of view is on the subject, I hope we can all agree that OU appeals processes need to be revamped. We've got a problem at our university (a student appeals report is coming out soon that details this). That our university needs to speak with its students and work to help, rather than hinder, the progress of its students. To be fair, we have had some movement on the ombudsperson (which, if there is any doubt now about the need for a neutral party that can expose major problems and help mediate between students and the UO: that doubt is extinguished) and will continue to work with the UO to get this implemented.

Disagree or agree with the SFUO letter (Dated Oct 27): this is your right. But, considering my immense respect for you, I expect the same in turn from you.

I can't believe I'm what I see here!!!!! And its not Mark or Mr.Rock who surprises me the most but the ignorance and the selfishness of our students

(((I want my 5 minutes back.

There are bigger tragedies happening that I'd like to hear about. If I wanted drama, I'd watch a 'reality' show on TV.)))

This is disgusting!!!

How can you be so stupid, don't you think that this can happen to any of us, getting expelled for failing a class--are you all out of your minds--that's absurd.

and I'm not talking about a mark that you didn't agree with-like you MELISSA-this is serious, and it relates to all of us, I want to know how are we actually treated, not like those little people who don't want to get out of their shells, its not Mark or anybody else , its the careless attitude that hurts, really hurts, I'm disgusted.

And I think Mr.Rock got hysterical,he repeated -get out- more than 20 times in less than 5 min.

Dear Dean (President of SFUO),You certainly do not represent me when you support Marc Kelly. Marc Kelly has intruded on thousands of people emails under the guise of being an official voice of the UO. He has been clearly disrepectful of many people through his actions (students, staff, Mr. Rock).

You should be representing the interests of students, and cearly Marc Kelly has has acted against this by emailing thousands of us univited with pure propoganda.

If you can not acknowledge this then you most certainly do not represent the interest a great number of students.

I hope you hear from others like me who are disgusted with this whole affair.

You are a fool to think this act will get you anywhere in this situation or in life for that matter. If you treat the problems found in life like this, you will surely fail. At this age, I would think you would at least understand that behaving like a child is not the answer. We all have feelings… but the entire U Ottawa student body does not been to hear about them. Please think before you act. Good luck with any future endeavours I am sure you will have to deal with regarding your unfortunate situation.

The conversation sounds extremely edited. It's not smooth, and Mr. Rock's voice reaches the exact same frequency without any variation several times, leading me to believe that you did indeed edit together several soundclips from what I assume was your original conversation. Some of us are film and recording experts. Do not insult our intelligence.

THE UNIVERSITY OF OTTAWA'S MISSION, OBJECTIVES, GOALS, VISION, AND VALUES

ALLAN ROCK, PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY

Allan Rock decides who speaks.

THOUGHTS ON STUDENT OPPRESSION...

"The oppressor is solidary with the oppressed only when he stops regarding the oppressed as an abstract category and sees them as persons who have been unjustly dealth with, deprived of their voice, cheated in the sale of their labor -- when he stops making pious, sentimental, and individualistic gestures and risks an act of love. True solidarity is found only in the plenitude of this act of love, in its existentiality, in its praxis. To affirm that men and women are persons and as persons should be free, and yet to do nothing tangible to make this affirmation a reality, is a farce."