Dustin Hurst is a right-wing blogger that recently arrived in Helena from Idaho, and has written stories defending Congressman Dennis Rehberg and the Montana GOP, and attacking Democrats. He calls himself a “reporter.” His “articles” are trash with no connection to facts or truth. Last week, for example, he wrote a story saying that Schweitzer is “happy with high unemployment.” He also claimed that Rob Stutz had called for a pre-emptive strike against Iran, as this video explains. Intelligent Discontent did a write up of the factual problems with some of the other blog posts Hurst was responsible for.

Hurst works for the Montana Watchdog, a somewhat absurd website that is a subsidiary of the right-wing Montana Policy Institute. It is believed that the site is funded by Koch Brothers’s-type donors from out of state, but it’s never really been clear who the funders are as the supposed purveyors of sunshine and light don’t disclose their own backers.

What you should know about Hurst is that while working for a blog called TheIdahoReporter.com, he got busted for lying about his identity while trying to chase down a story about a Democratic state lawmaker. The Idaho Statesman reported the incident, and although

In addition to blogging, Hurst is a busy but uninteresting Twitterer, Hurst has also shared his opinions on everything from Bill Maher, Obama, paying taxes and Taco Bell. On one night alone, Hurst used up five tweets on the fact he was watching the latest Tom Cruise movie.

The internet also contains a frightful collection of Dustin Hurst photos, including:

155 Commentson "Pro-Rehberg Blogger Fled Idaho Under Cloud"

Sadly, our local right-wing daily here in Dillon (The Dillonite) has begun regularly featuring articles from the Montana Watchdog. There’s no way to answer these articles because the “editors” of the Dillonite don’t print letters that contradict their propaganda.

I have actually printed a number of articles in the Dillonite contradicting the nutcase rightwing crap that is usually printed. Mosoff is also a regular. Maybe things have changed since the General died, but I haven’t had any issue getting an article published there. They have to be relatively small (space is limited) but you might try it. As an alternative, contact Mosoff and see how he gets his stuff published by them.

It’s obvious Dustin is funded by the same neo-conservative interests that want to elect Denny Rehberg to privatize Social Security & Medicare, treat women as second class citizens and push a social agenda unrecognizable to most Americans.

Did you read his article complaining about the length of a drive between Helena and Butte? Welcome to Montana, Dustin. You may need to drive more than 20 minutes to get from point A to point B.

Maybe he’ll come on this site and make his case…………..BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

I’d really like to see if the Kockh brothers are getting their money’s worth! How bout it Mr. Dustin Burst? You up for some debate, dink? Din’t THINK so! That’s OK though. The Kockh brothers don’t PAY you enough to get your ass kicked on this site! I understand, dude. It’s who you are, and it’s who the Kock brothers are!

Sen. Lewis — Did it show good judgement to lie about his identity? It’s nice of you to overlook the fact that he is a liar to say nice things about his haircut, but we all know you’re just as much of a chameleon as Dustin Hurst.

Well, it’s nice to meet all of you. Thanks for the warm welcome to your beautiful state. I actually lived in East Helena when I was a kid and attended Eastgate Elementary. It’s nice to be back.

Unfortunately, this blog post doesn’t tell the whole story. I get that. Space is limited and being too wordy loses attention.

Let’s look at those pictures one by one.

1. Rapping: Actually, I was at a church dance on Halloween 2004 and that was my costume. I thought I was being frugal by using a hubcap I found at the side of the road for my bling.
2. The Stephen Hawking picture was in poor taste. I removed it from my Facebook page.
3. Bush: When I was studying at North Idaho College, a local anti-war group held a rally and march down Sherman Avenue in Coeur d’Alene. It offended me, so I showed up to support the troops.
4. Drinking in the street: I was drinking a Rockstar on Pike Street in Seattle on a college journalism field trip. I don’t drink alcohol, for those who might be wondering.

While these photos may look suspicious, proper context is necessary here. And, in my own defense, these are probably the worst photos you’ll find of me from my college years. I can live with that.

BTW, it’s been more than seven years since any of these photos were taken.

Unfortunately, the Montana Cowgirl didn’t see fit to publish photos of me taking part in Boy Scouts or reading to my four-month-old son. Then again, that wouldn’t fit the narrative, would it?

As for the identity thing, that was a mistake, as I told the Idaho Statesman reporter. I called the company a number of times to get the info, but they stonewalled me. I thought the end justified the means and I was wrong.

Anyway, it’s really good to be back, Montana. I look forward to getting to know you again.

Um, Joe Turner, dude, how is supporting Georgie’s Orgy of Slaughter for Big Oil and Haliburton supporting FREEDOM, dude? THAT is what your signs say! And if you REALLY beleived that, why didn’t you go???

Anyone stupid enough to suppport the bush wars is CERTAINLY stupid enough to be a Montana Pubbie, so you’re qualified, dude! BTW, did you see where a full TWENTY-SIX PERCENT of the American public now supports the “war”??

Yep. At age 26, with no experience, no education, no qualifications, no Montana connections, and a shady past, YOU’RE PERFECT! You are the perfect spokesman for the Teatards of Montana and Dopey Reeburp! WELCOME TO MONTANA, JOE! It is Joe, isn’t it???

I’m not sure I’d consider myself part of the MT cowgirl ‘crowd’, but I will say this – I admire a man who comes on to an unfriendly blog to defend himself, and to admit that both the Hawking picture and the incident were mistakes takes more humility than I’d say is typical in the MT GOP.

All that said, I don’t think we’re likely to get along. Nonetheless, I hope to see you venturing into liberal Montana blogs again – I wish we had more conservatives joining the discussion.

I am not moved by your little tale, as no where in this story of yours Durst is the word “apology” come in. You see, having a Bad taste, or being wrong for posting those pictures, or lying to get a story just doesn’t cut it.

The Problem is nowhere today does the christian right wing think it should apologize. If you were a true reporter, you would know what that word really means.

It originally comes from the Greek word “apologeisthai:” to give a true account, or witness defense. Since the Original Greek bibles are what a majority of Modern bibles came from… it was the Greek way of attesting to the truth by forms of that word, As if before a court today!

The bibles of modern writing has lost the original meaning, to speak as a true witness…. unforgivably, for RW republicans today, they consider it being weak! In other words it is easier to speak a lie, then to tell the truth now or apologize. In the GOP world of today, “Apology’s are for fools.”

As you cunningly craft your opinions, and omit facts, or decide your opinion is more important then the research you should seek out first…. Remember, that most Real Americans still use an apology because they know in there hearts what that word really means. We sleep better at night knowing we gave a true accounting, even though it might have hurt us in the process.

That’s what Journalistic credentials really come from, a true accounting! and I don’t see that with you yet, I don’t see it at all!

Character counts! Or lack there of. Remember Clinton? The Pubbies are the ones that had NO way to attack Clinton on issues when he was running, so that attacked his “character”. HEY, they made the rules of modern politics! Now, they must live or die by those rules! If this dude hurst lied about one thing, what ELSE will he lie about if the end justifies the means?

But the great thing ABOUT being a Pubbie is that one NEVER has to say that you’re sorry! Sure, Larry Craig got caught toe tapping, but he was REALLY just listening to some music on his Ipod! And now, he’s been redeemed! Redemption. Such a nice Pubbie contrivance! Works every time!

As an employee of a news outlet I won’t mention, I can only cringe when this episode comes up at the water cooler. Whether Mr Hurst was having a dang bad day and made a “mistake” or really is a juicebox dolt doesn’t matter. He’s effectively ruined his cred. As long as the internet is extant, his ethical lapse will survive-embarrassing photos notwithstanding.

YEAH! And I’ll bet that his Kockh brothers benefactors ain’t gonna like THIS one little bit! Time for Gen. Baldy and his private CIA to declare WAR! War I tell ya! It’s time for Big Baldy’s revolution! Them watermelons are winnin’!

Are YOU a watermelon too? bhwhahahaha! Hell, I din’t even KNOW that I was one until I read Hal Herring! BTW, show me ANYTHING written on any retard Pubbie site as well written as this article of Hal’s! There AIN’T none! Those sites are full of half-wit half-shit! And hurst is simply the latest contributor!

I find it refreshing that Dustin is public about who he is and who he works for. More than this site can say. Maybe those here could provide their real names and employers before calling for even more transparency from someone who appears to have little to hide.

That’s damned funny coming from a guy who comments under the anonymous name of “Scoop”.

Y’see, the rules aren’t quite the same for those who hail themselves as journalists, or “reporters”. Journalists have a well established and well discussed ‘code of ethics’ they are supposed to ascribe to. In exchange, they enjoy First Amendment protections that the federal judiciary has denied to bloggers and blog commenters. There are many here who do post their names. Their occupations, though frequently known, are really none of your business, unless they call themselves ‘reporters’ or ‘journalists’.

So, i guess the best response to your request, Scoop, is this: Fine. You first.

Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester is preventing his campaign website from being digitally archived online.

The opponent for his Senate seat, Republican U.S. House Rep. Denny Rehberg, isn’t surprised.
Chris Bond, Rehberg’s campaign spokesman, blasted the Democratic senator for blocking the Wayback Machine, the Internet’s only digital archive, from storing screenshots of his campaign websites dating to 2006.
“Given Sen. Tester’s long, disingenuous record of saying one thing, then doing the opposite, it would be no surprise if he were hypocritically trying to use transparency as a campaign issue while at the same time hiding this information from the public,” Bond wrote in an email to Montana Watchdog.
Tester is using a special coding procedure to prevent the Wayback Machine from storing screenshots of his 2012 campaign site, JonTester.com, something he also did for his 2006 page, TesterforSenate.com.
The Wayback Machine is a nonprofit entity that randomly accesses all publicly listed web pages, takes screenshots of the sites and then stores them for easy public access.
Blocking the archive tool means the public cannot use the archive to view screenshots of Tester’s 2006 website, and the archive is unable to make digital copies of his 2012 campaign web page.
Aaron Murphy, Tester’s spokesman, hasn’t responded to multiple email inquiries.
Ironically, Tester’s campaign released a television ad earlier this week boasting of the senator’s dedication to ethics, accountability and transparency.

If y’all are going to get all apoplectic, might as well have some red meat.

Larry, he acknowledges his mistake and is attempting to move on with life at the tender age of 26. Those photo’s look to be college stuff. Geeze, did you ever learn from your youthful mistakes and attempt to correct your life?

So much of what appears here reminds me of what Bertrand Russel wrote:

Every man, wherever he goes, is encompassed by a cloud of comforting convictions, which move with him like flies on a summer day.

Now did Schweitzer say the following to Al Hunt, “We’re at 6.2 percent unemployment. Our tax revenues are up. People are doing OK in Montana.”

I find citing the 6.2 quite deceptive as it is a peanut butter spread and doesn’t highlight those counties with very serious unemployment. Also, that number doesn’t include those that have given up looking for work. Is that how people in Montana are doing OK when their personal tragedies are no longer in the numbers touted by politicians like Schweitzer?

…also there is the matter of Schweitzer’s deception regarding the relocation of bison without first putting forth a bison relocation plan. That one had the Malta area farmers and ranchers steaming mad. Looks like the judge sides with them at this point: http://www.kxlf.com/news/judge-halts-montana-bison-moves/

Hurst’s story reads like a press handout from the Rehberg campaign. It leaves many questions unanswered. Does Rehberg block the Wayback Machine? Do other politicians? How common is the practice? Are there legitimate reasons for blocking the Wayback? How is it done (hint: see http://www.robotstxt.org/)?

Hurst needs his copy blue-penciled by an editor of the Ben Bradlee genre. And he needs that kind of mentoring if he’s to be rehabilitated as a journalist. He’s getting a second chance, but I find myself wondering whether he’s making the best use of it.

Woopee-do! As a Webdesigner myself. I am gonna tell you guys it is Common practice to block out robot text (webcrawlers). I Write very specialized code for my clients sites when they pay for it. Maybe I’m not Known in this state for it but SEO is one of my fortes, for bigger companies! The specialized text I write is usually done a number of ways but I usually put down a XML, Java,and HTML filter on those who want it. I also build specialized web crawlers (research engines), looking for vulnerabilities in my clients sites as well. Using Apache servers stop a lot of exploits themselves caused they are kernal based, But I believe Rehberg is saying this cause he has a team of Hackers somewhere, who were not happy they couldn’t tap into Testers email.

There is so much crap out there on the web right now…. a lot of government sites have that no robot text up, to keep their Email box from Being spammed, and their site from being damaged. Good web designers know how to build a Java sandbox, where exploits like Rehbergs team go to die!

Rehberg’s people are making up another story. And what are they doing that for? To hint at deception, but what were they doing looking at testers code page in the first place????

Thats all! they got nothing to say about Rehberg’s time in Congress, cause he hasn’t done anything for this State, for the last 8 years.

Maybe I need to go look at the code of Rehberg’s and Testers site as well…. Done! What a Hypocritical Bastard he Has become. Rehberg has set trackers on his site. YOUR GETTING TRACKED FOLKS REHBERG HAS LITTLE SPYS. Tester hasn’t! The reason the dummies that built Rehberg’s website can’t get in, is because Testers site conforms to some pretty strict XHTML protocols, Damn I am impressed…. looks good and is has a wordpress based SEO Plugin, But I see no reference to tester blocking archiving in the meta Tags of his site!

Figures Rehberg Lies again!!!!

Rehbergs site though does block looking up his java scripts, but some I can see, cause he must reference them are trackers!

Dustin is not good with facts, which is bad for a reporter. He’s also not good with the Constitution, which is bad for a right-winger. Bad reporter + bad right-winger = bad right-wing reporter = right-wing attach dog.

And there are a number of different uses for the Robots.txt code, but only one specific command, which Tester’s campaign uses, can block the Wayback Machine. That fact has been confirmed by a college professor and a website development firm.

By Dustin Hurst | Watchdog.org

HELENA — Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester touts his record on transparency in a new television ad this week, but his campaign is hiding information on the Internet.

Through a complex Internet coding process, Tester is preventing the Wayback Machine, the Internet’s only web page archive tool, from storing screenshots of his 2012 website, JonTester.com, as well as the site he used for his 2006 Senate run — TesterforSenate.com,which now redirects to his current site.

The Wayback Machine archives screenshots of publicly listed websites a few times per year and then saves them in a database for easy public access.
But website owners, including Tester’s campaign, can code in specific language to prevent the Wayback Machine from accessing their sites and storing screenshots.

That means the public cannot use the archive to view screenshots of Tester’s 2006 website, and the archive is unable to make digital copies of his 2012 campaign web page.

Jim Freebourn, a professor in Montana Tech of the University of Montana’s computer department in Butte, confirmed that a special line of coding is used in each website to prevent the Wayback Machine from taking and storing screenshots of the pages.

Additionally, Mike Callaghan, president of Bigfork Web Development in Bigfork, confirmed Tester’s campaign is using a single string of web coding to target and block the Wayback Machine.

Also not talking is Blue State Digital, a Democratic-aligned Internet and marketing company Tester uses for his web design. The company, which received more than $3,000 from Tester’s campaign according to Federal Election Commission reports, didn’t return calls from Montana Watchdog.

Tester’s decision to block his sites from automatic archiving sets him apart from fellow Democrat Gov. Brian Schweitzer—and from his November opponent, GOP U.S. House Rep. Denny Rehberg.

Go to the Wayback Machine and enter DennyRehberg.com, the web address the Republican used for his U.S. House runs and is using in the race against Tester. The result: 108 screenshots from the page show updating to June 2004.

Schweitzer’s campaign website, BrianSchweitzer.com, logs 269 entries on the Wayback Machine, dating to April 2000, when the web address was used for his unsuccessful U.S. Senate run against Republican Sen. Conrad Burns.

The site was retooled in 2002 to reflect Schweitzer’s gubernatorial run.

You can check for the blocking instructions for any website by adding robots.txt to the website’s root address; use the Tester example as a template.

I carry no brief for Rehberg, and never will, but I will say I’m disappointed to learn that Tester’s website is blocking the Wayback Machine. I can’t think of a single good reason for doing so. Did Tester know his website blocked the Wayback Machine? And if so, why did he approve? His campaign ought to come clean.

Incidentally, I’m also finding that a lot of campaign websites, especially those built from campaign website packages that candidates purchase, are depositing cookies in the computers of viewers. I doubt that many candidates know that’s happening. If you use a Mac, go the the users library, make a copy of the cookies Plist, and search for the domain names using a text editor (Text Wrangler, freeware from http://www.barebones.com, is a good choice for a powerful text editor).

That doesn’t stop other web engines from snapshots of his site. Like I said before no robots txt, that is common practice. I can find some text and cached stuff from his site already!on other archive sites! If this is all you can do Dustin your not worthy material for any newspaper reporting staff! Get a real job!

Dustin, if I needed a reason to utterly discount you and ignore everything you say, you have easily given one to me. I am a former web programmer and have worked (in one form or other) in computer engineering for over 20 years. You are trying to make a mountain out of a simple and common web programming tool – robot blocking.

Personally, I could give a crap about “The wayback machine” or any one of the hundreds of other robotic data gathering programs continuously searching the internet – other than than to say that any decent web designer will block them. They slow the processing of the web site, they can attach malicious software to comments and they serve little purpose other than to give trolls like you ammunition to fire off soundbytes at politicians you don’t like.

You are a moron if you think this is a story. It is crap masquerading as “informed reporting”. It is no wonder you were run out of Idaho. Sadly for you, there are plenty of computer savy people reading this site and they will all see you for the political tool you are.

I agree, any 15 year old can tell you that the more modern a site is, the less they want screenshot programs like this slowing down the loading time, which repels visitors. And less site visits means fewer informed constituents, obviously. This story is total crap.

Barack Obama’s website does not have a robots.txt block on the Wayback Machine. Yet I just loaded it in 2-3 seconds — after clearing my cache. If Obama can live with a 2-3-second load time, so can Tester.

Thank you Moorcat! I have long ranted in my living room about the incompetence of campaigns with major website flaws! Lag time is huge, and is a giant turn off. The private sector has it somewhat better figured out, but they too have major offenders . Besides robot lag, I often see sites turn away traffic wih annoying music and video on auto play . Nothing turns away visitors more than these three items. I cannot say this enough . Look most people read web sites at the office or at home while watching TV. If u are at work and music or audio starts blaring out of your machine, you are going to close out instantly. If u are at home with the fam and it happens, same thing.

I just picked up at a local store issue #1 of something called the Capitol City Observer (or something like that I already tossed it so I might be flubbing the name). It appears Colonel Tim Ravndal of the 69th Homeguard regiment is now producing his own newspaper as well, although the term newspaper is probably way too generous.

We are a news website, not a U.S. Senate campaign. Also, I don’t know about Montana Watchdog’s web web coding, but I know that Tester’s campaign is specifically blocking the Wayback Machine by disallowing the ia_archiver user. Google that and let me know what you find.

Dustin you and montana watchdog clearly have something to hide in your archives since you are blocking the wayback machine. What are you trying to hide? You do need mentoring. Maybe you should see if Colonel Ravndal will give you a job with his periodical the Capitol Observer. You make him seem almost credible by comparison he will probably like that.

I agree Polish Wolf. Besides the minor sub-point: one knows who is funding news sites, their advertisers, which are printed in large color blocks for anyone to see. No disclosure from the so-called “Watchdog” at any level.

I saw you attacking Intelligent Discontent on your site, free from comments. Maybe we should go out – I’ll get a Miner’s Gold (for starters, at least; just won a silver medal!) and I’ll buy you a Rockstar. We can discuss how ludicrous that claim is, and whether Rehberg has any qualities whatsoever over Jon Tester.

Wow, I spent the day chauffeuring Fighter Dad to appointments and being an all around good son and plumber, come back to the office to catch THIS soap opera.
Um….
Can I make note of the fact that THIS “news” site is anonymously written and funded — pots and kettles and all that? Or merely a double standard?

This blog has never been catagorized as a news site except maybe in your head, Dave. It is a political blog aimed at the Left, nothing more. It enjoys more readership than any other blog in Montana but it is still nothing more than a blog. Had you actually read the comments here instead of spewed your verbal vomit all over the page, you would have seen that more than one person has pointed out the difference. It is sad (but expected) that you missed that.

Dave is simply using the whiney Pubbie tactic of if you have no defense, go on the offense! Sure it’s stupid. Sure it’s ineffective. But it’s all they got!

And that is precisely why no one reads their sites. Bullshit gets terribly boring after a short time.

Cowgirl has simply stated the facts about Joe Turner. And since there is no defense of the dude, they immediately attack with the false equivalency shit. Sad, so sad, that THIS is what the GOP has become!

Mr. Hurst?? Mr. Hurst?? OH, you mean JOEY TURNER! bwhahahahahahhaa! Is yours a gag post, franky? Should we be heaping PRAISE on the dude for lying his ass off? For being “young”? Seems that lying his ASS off seems to be the TRADEMARK of this self-appointed “journalist”! (see his site) Is that really an admirable trait! If so, why?

You see, Franky, the TRVTH is ONLY venom to folks who can’t handle it! Which seems to be YOU, dude! You can’t handle the TRVTH about this lying, outta state, wannabee journalist!

Now, cranky franky, just WHAT was that “venom” you were refering to? And one other question. Can the Pubbies find NO ONE from Montana to do their lying for them? Must they REALLY recruit dudes like Joe Turner to attempt to do their dirty work? That seems awfully strange to me. Why? Why bring in a dude who has NO concept of Montana to pimp for Dopey Reeburp? Is it ’cause he doesn’t KNOW any better and can easily lie for Dopey? Could be! And probably is! And that seems to be the case!

You see, franky, one of the very FIRST things that ol Ronnie Raygun did after busting the unions was to bust the Fairness Doctrine. And it worked!….for awhile. But now, we have the blogs! So bullshit gets called out instantly!

Oh sure, the little righties HATE that. They HATE the fact that someone can call bullshit on their bullshit! It just don’t seem FAIR to retards! For they’re used to listening to Flush Blimpo and Glenda Beck, and all the nazis on fox!

So, cranky, don’t come to this site expecting to see that kinda shit. You’ll only be disappointed dude. Again, no free passes!

Can I ask you something? What happened to that other guy they had, Phil Drake? He actually seemed nice. And, even though I disagree with his politics, he didn’t seem to be a moron at all. He even wrote a book about liking everyone regardless of their size, aimed at middle schoolers, which tells the story of a larger sized person who finds love. So that’s cool anyway.

WARNING: Music plays when you click on this link, turn down your speakers.

I love how this blogger is tying to “blame” Jon tester for the fact the many have read an article that was posted on the website of on of this states biggest papers! Hilarious. Earth to Dustin, he Internet is public buddy. Good riddance

If this is such a trivial blog and not a “news” site, then why are “mainstream” — unbiased “news” outlets taking this kind of stuff as a news lead worth reporting upon?
Finally, I would like to defend at least one egregious act on Hurst’s part — the Pike Place shot.
Ever been there? Highest count of prone winos and aggro panhandlers of anywhere except perhaps Noo Yawk City. So, he was getting down with the local vibe of “tolerance.”

Skinner, I never said this site was trivial. That is your own interpretation. What I said was that it was not a news site. There are certain very real legal differences between the two as has been pointed out ad nausium. You really should learn to read better if you are going to attempt to pass yourself off as a “news” person.

Murk, you wrote “nothing more than a blog” somewhere up there — that’s minimizing, so pardon me if I took you at face intent.
And if so, then I guess this blog doesn’t have the protections (what was her name, the crank real estate lady up in Eureka?) then CG and IDC and WD and and and are not protected from the consequences of being too scurrilous? Or something?
And yeah, Craig, Schell’s Seattle was a heckhole. Is…no matter who sits on council.
And Murk, again, I’ll take you on, the “journalistic trade” is demographically and politically to the left of America. Period.
Freedom Forum has polled journalists on their voting habits and political outlooks and the distance from the actual mainstream of the citizenry is quite striking. Go poke around a little around Freedom Forum and you should find the 90 percent Clinton, 9 percent vote (Bush 1 or maybe Dole) from journalists while the country at large was much more equally divided.
We do vote our beliefs, ya know.

I am assuming that your poor skills in reading comprehension have led you to believe my handle is “Murk” and you are responding to me given that you tacked your reply to mine. Further, you are incapable of parcing a sentance since the literal “translation” of mine is nothing more than what I wrote – that this site is no more and no less than a blog (an entirely different entity from a legitimate news site). I did not denote any relative value to either, that is your own personal interpretation (One I don’t happen to share, BTW).

As far as “taking me on”, you fail before you even begin. You make a number of sweeping statements that you fail to back up and, frankly, you can’t back up. For every “source” you want to post, there is another that will post the exact opposite. Further, “left” and “right” are terms so ephemeral that even the so called “experts” can’t define them. Craig and I have been having a similar pointless discussion about the PI in Seattle.

For the record, I did “poke around” the Freedom Forum and even they disagree with your assesment. Worse, they seem to be incapable of making up their mind what the “actual Mainsteam” of the voting citizenry is.

Once again, you prove yourself a moron and frankly, replying to you has become tedious. You are simply and idiot with a platform (and just for the record, moron, this isn’t that platform) and because of it, you have an overinflated veiw of just how important you are in the grand scheme of things. Personally, I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire.

Rob, do your own homework. I happened to be there at the time. Made the news. Don’t expect much from you regarding this tragedy. The police chief who ordered no interference in the celebrations was Gil Kerlikowske. The police stood by and watched as the beating ensued.

The night of Feb. 27 and the early morning of Feb. 28, 2001, Seattle experienced a violent riot during Mardi Gras celebrations in Pioneer Square.

Kris Kime, 20, was killed during the melee as uniformed officers stood close by, doing nothing. Many people said such police paralysis was inexcusable.

“Delay in the use of force, and the hesitation to accept responsibility for its employment when the situation clearly demands it, will always be interpreted as weakness,” the late Ken Saucier, head of the police officers’ union, told P-I columnist Robert Jamieson Jr. that year.

Click here to see 2001 Seattle Mardi Gras riot photos.

There were many failures that happened during the 2001 Mardi Gras event. Then-Mayor Paul Schell stayed home. Gil Kerlikowske, police chief at the time, ordered officers not to intervene as the streets turned to chaos. People were beaten in view of news cameras. Some people fired shots into the crowd. More than 60 people were injured.

Police transcripts exist that the police were to remain on the periphery of the crowd; they observed people being beaten, but were instructed to stay out of the crowd. I appreciate your skepticism, but this time Craig’s facts are right. (though to be fair to the police chief, sending cops into a crowd, as opposed to staying on the periphery, is a common tactic; if they don’t have their backs covered in the midst of a riot, they will likely to be targets of violence).

The relevance of the issue, however, I haven’t yet grasped. Is the point that Pioneer square in Seattle is chaos many nights? You can get evidence of that every week; no need to go back 11 years.

I imagine that actually Craig is hinting at the alleged racial angle of the riots. But that is neither here nor there nor with Dustin Hurst.

Just curious, Craig: I see the reflexive accusation hurled about that various newspapers are “left wing.” I’m not blind, but don’t much care for American news reporting not because it is ideologically slanted, but rather that it sucks up to power – whoever is in power – and wealth. What, pray tell, makes the PI “left wing,” or was that sarcasm? ( It works better as sarcasm.)

Mark, Seattle useta have 2 daily newspapers, the P-I and the Seattle Times. The P-I was always far left of center with its choice and context of stories, editorials, and candidate endorsements while the Times was more middle. The P-I went bust as a print format, it exits only electronically today, while the Times still prints.

Craig, that is hardly a fair assessment of the situation. Yes, the PI tended to be left of the Seattle Times but that hardly makes it “leftwing” as the Seattle Times is about as “objective” as the Wall Street Journal. Many people in the area lament the loss of the PI in print form because it tended to be far more objective and much less corporate than the Seattle Times.

As far as the incident in question, there is a great deal of back story behind it that I am quite sure you do NOT want aired in this discussion. I was living in the area at the time and am very familiar with both the events in question and what led up to it. Yes, the police were ordered not to interfere with the riots but to simply contain the crowd and protect private property. Yes, many people were injured and one person was killed. Sadly, you are bringing the audience into the middle of the story rather than it’s beginning.

There isn;t enough room on Cowgirl’s server to list all the weird shit that happens in Seattle. I only lived in that area for 7 years and I never did figure out exactly what the hell was going on most of the time. Some of those people are simply crazy.

Can you be more specific? In the eyes of the right, everything is far-left. I read newspapers, I lived in Seattle at one time when there were indeed two newspapers.. I’m not seeing it. You are attempting to paint with a broad brush – in the FOX news era, AIM and all of the right chanting “liberal media liberal media!”, a little evidence would be useful. Please provide more than generalizations without substance.

I doubt it. It labels itself for what it is. But mainstream papers do not. But they are not, as you so blandly assert, “left wing” due to opinions of right wingers. If there is any ideology at work, it is merely capitalism.

Mark, I made NO generalization about “mainstream papers.” I spoke of only one Seattle paper, the PI. Again, my opinion and that of many is that a paper’s point of view is developed through the stories it decides to highlight, it’s editorial position on issues, and the candidates it endorses. When the PI existed as print media, it was far left using that criteria which may explain its demise while the Seattle Times continues.

Again, Craig, I hardly found the PI to be “far left” unless you were comparing it to the Seattle Times – a paper that is notorious for it’s hard right leanings on the order of the Wall Street Journal (or are you going to try to assert that the WSJ is “objective” reporting?). Your assumption that the PI went bust being because it was “far left” is also silly. The PI dropped it’s print version because it did not have the financial corporate assets that the Seattle Times did and therefore could not compete with that newpaper. Stick to facts you can back up rather than you slanted personal delusions. You are intellegent a person to drop to Mark’s level.

So to “prove” your assertions, you link to a blog written by someone that is obviously both right leaning and has a special hatred for the PI… That dog just doesn’t hunt, Craig. You see, I actually lived there and was a subscriber to both papers. Yes, the PI was definitely left of the Seattle Times. I have not said that it wasn’t. What I have maintained (and you have yet to prove) is that the PI hardly qualified at “hard left” unless your definition of “hard left” means what most hard right people want it to mean – anyone reporting with more objectivity than FOX news.

“but rather that it sucks up to power – whoever is in power – and wealth.”

I know you only have two or three motifs, Mark, but this one doesn’t fit super well when the question is which newspaper was more harsh in its critique of the police chief, a position generally considered to be ‘someone in power’.

Craig made a generalization regarding a newspaper being “far left.” I asked him to justify that position. The incident regarding the police chief is anecdotal – here in Denver, the Post routinely protects the police, lately in its suppression of the local branch of OWS. That too is anecdotal.

If you want to argue American news and my “motifs”, I suggest you start by abandoning your own lone motif, that you generally have access to valid information and therefore have sound opinions based on solid evidence. Instead, try and debate me on that topic somewhere else. I just put up a long post on American credulity, not mentioning you by name. Start there.

Looks like Craig is speaking factually here. I wasn’t in Seattle when it happened, but it is well documented that the police were instructed not to intervene as many people were attacked in Mardis Gras riots that year.

As far as it goes, Craig is factually correct, but there is a lot of back story behind the decision to keep the police out of the riots that occured over a period of a year and is related the WHO riots that took place in Seattle. I agree the decision to keep the police out of the fray quite likely contributed to the death of Kris Kime, it was one small part of a much larger situation. It should be noted that the situation resulted a lot of recrimination of the Seattle Police Dept but it also caused the passage of a number of laws in Seattle that gave the police the tools to deal with violent riot situations like this and the WHO protests. Moreover, the decision to keep the police out of the fray also resulted in a significant reduction in private property damage and kept the riot contained to a relatively small area – thereby protecting a larger portion of the Seattle population.

Agreed Moorcat! It was nothing like the L.A. Riots( Watts Riots), the Black Panthers movement and Oakland riots, Or the Riots caused by by the Rodney King Affair and trial! The last two I mentioned I lived through. Once as a child, living in the Oakland area, my father worked in the famous Kiaser building, as a nuclear engineer.

In 1969, the last year for which complete statistics are available for Oakland, there were 35,202 assaults on police officers, 11,949 resulting in injury. Eighty-six police officers, a 34-percent increase over 1968, were killed. They didn’t keep very good records of the amount of regular people and Black people, who suffered at the hands of the police. but I am guessing it was just as high– and the reason for the riots were about the racism for blacks in that area.

The La riots because of Rodney King, made it very hard to get home each day as a horse trainer. A lot of us stayed at the barns in Inglewood’s Hollywood Park! Over 50 people died after those 2 police officers were cleared in court for beating Rodney King, and a billion dollars in Damages to business and property happened all around us!

You mistake my intent, Norma. While the WHO riots and the riot mentioned above were not on the scale of the Watt’s riots in LA, they were certainly very real to the people living in Seattle at the time. There was property damage and people lost lives. It doesn’t get much more real than that.

“Any kind of Riots are a tragedy, when their is loss of Life” – a true statement but often the “loss of life” is underplayed when it is a police officer just trying to do his job in maintaining the peace. The Chief of Police was fired but what he was trying to do was important – ensure the safety of his outnumbered police officers as well as prevent the damage to personal property that occured in the previous riot. Was it a mistake? I guess it depends on who’s veiwpoint you are looking from. It was certainly a mistake from the veiwpoint of Kris Kime’s family. It wasn’t a mistake from the veiwpoint of the families of those outnumbered police officers on the scene. That was a lesson learned hard in Seattle and with a cost in blood and tears.

First of all, Real credentialed reporters would take a story from here, and then check the facts Mr.Skinner. They can Contact Cowgirl for all the information, its just that easy! I find the cowgirl quite appoachable through email……. Then Real News Organizations like AP, NBC, and others like them, research and make sure the information is correct. They always do!

The best part about Cowgirls facts is, They are pretty damn correct most of the time. That makes her a go to for real reporter stories, because the information and links is already spelled out in the posts! and they can gain any other info she has with a quick email.

This is why she is the Number #1 source in Montana, a Blogger that cares to put out the right information.

Um, Craig, and THAT is exactly why NO ONE reads the moron rightwing sites! They don’t have a clue! Even you wingnuts must come here to get your info. And that’s just sad, dude. So sad!

BTW, where oh where did the young joe turner go? Has he done his famous Elvis impersonation? Has he LEFT THE BUILDING already? Geez, if you’re gonna be Dopey Reeburp’s chief apologist, he really SHOULD be made of sterner stuff! Instead of just TURNER stuff! bhwhahahahahaahhaah! Where is the little dink? He don’t impress me as being a real bright dude!

WHAT matter? The joe turner comedy show? It ain’t daiper rash, dude. It’s HUMOR fodder! Who doesn’t like to laugh? Why do you suppose that Colbert and Stewart are so popular? Wingnuts are heelarious! They INVITE derisive laughter! So, why not?

Look, this joe turner dude is laughable. So, should we be laffing at him? Oh HELL yes!

You see, he’s the perfect “reporter” to defend Dopey Reeburp. Dopey has ONLY sued the FD, nearly KILLED his entire staff in a drunken boat wreck, and fought tooth and nail to defend CEEment Jaysus!

And so WHERE does Dopey go to find defenders? Outta state! For shady characters! To reflect DOPEY’S own character! It makes perfect sense! And perfect humor.

Exactly what is funny about Norma’s responce, Craig? Are you denying that Cowgirl’s site enjoys the highest readership of any political blog in Montana (unlikely since you tend not to fall the delusional depths of Mark), or is it that Montana News Sources take ques occationally from posts on this site? I am actually curious..

Moorcat, the righties are at a loss as to what to DO witht the Cowgirl blog. They don’t have a clue as to how to counteract it’s unbelievable popularity. They have tried different strategies, but each time they do it’s a big fail.

If they try actual debate, they get their asses handed to them. If they try personal attack, they get their asses handed to them. If they simply spout talking points, they get their asses handed to them. And if they try to immitate this site, it’s laughable, and no one reads their blogs. Hence, their dilemma!

I FEEL their pain! bhwhwhahahahaaa!

So, I think their current strategy is to just remind folks that the rightwing still exists. Guys like Skinner and Craig show up to make their presence known and not much else. It’s basically the only thing they CAN do!

They rightwing lacks ANY creativity except for evil shit. At that they are very creative. But when they cannot control the narrative, it’s game over for them. And in a side by side free for all debate, THAT becomes very clear.

I like our rightwing pals that show up here. They’re good sports most of the time. But they’ve got nothing to contribute except for their own irrelevance.

No worries Moorcat, They just think their the second coming of Fox news. Problem is Fox news is entertainment on TV that cannot be duplicated, in real life. The second Biggest reason is Jealousy of Cowgirls site, plain and simple.

This is just a friendly reminder to anyone that wants to “get into a discussion” with me (I am trying to be polite). My censor button is officially broken and I am fed up with the insanity being touted as “policy”. If you want to argue with me, bring your facts. Further, quoting a blog is about the same level with me as quoting Wiki. Don’t bother. It only makes you look like an idiot (even if I know you are not). I will look at your source and it apparent that you are being stupid, I will lose most of my respect for you.

(yes, bro, I am being pissy. Been working the outside (garden, front median, ect) and my back is killing me. The muscle relaxers the doc gave me have a wierd effect on my internal censor… they disable it completely.)

Funny thing was that until a few years ago, I had never had a back problem. Unfortunately, I tripped over our Beagle going down a short flight of stairs and now I have a hernited disc in my back. It is frustrating and the effect of the drugs is even more frustrating (I hate taking medicine to begin with…)

Murk is phonetic shorthand for your stage name. Would you prefer Miss Kitty? Your moods seem about that feline and fickle.
As for backup — none less than the New York Times affirmed Freedom Forum’s (and many other studies prior) that the journalistic leadership prefers, by massive majorities, the leftie candidate when it comes to a vote.
The disconnect is impressive. John Tierney polled his buddies and found them 3 to 1 for Kerry versus Bush 2, and when it came to Beltway reporters, the preference was 12 to 1 Kerry over Bush 2.
I have yet to see any credible poll that shows “mainstream” journalists anywhere near the reader public in terms of actual voting conduct — which is where beliefs really hit the road.
By the way, you’re not as smart as you think — were I on fire across the road, wouldn’t gasoline work better?

And why is there no link to your claim? Could it be that it’s remarkably flawed on it’s face? Better yet. Show us all any credible proof that the owners and editors of news outlets ‘prefer leftie candidates’. You were the one stupid enough to claim that about “journalistic leadership”, so let’s actually look at the leadership. Let’s see some back up, pal. Or are you lying?

The only thing I would add to Rob’s already stellar reply is that supporting a candidate for President is a far cry from being “left” or “right”. What you fail to comprehend in your arrogance is that a bad candidate is a bad candidate regardless of political affiliation. Under no circumstances could I support either Bush or McCain. Bush was an idiot supported by a kingmaker that could only be called “evil”. McCain was about as out of touch with the public as Santorum was and his choice of Palin as a running mate proved his inability to lead the country.

As Rob has pointed out, you have nothing. You are proven – yet again – a complete and utter idiot.

By the way, if you had more than one brain cell left to rub together, you would have actually responded to the comment your reply is obviously about. Instead you chose to tack it onto a completely different thread. Not only are you a moron, you are an incompetant moron.