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The AFCOE Complete Course is a comprehensive evangelism training program that will prepare you for an entry-level career in ministry or simply help you reach those close to you more effectively. This complete course will give you the skills you need to be a better soul-winner, with professional instruction from experienced soul-winners in counseling, personal witnessing, public evangelism, how to give Bible studies, preaching, and so much more.

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Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact? Wood rats are nocturnal rodents that are native throughout North America. These social creatures eat seeds, fruits, roots and vegetation, with a few bugs thrown in for added protein. And they can grow up to 20 inches long, including their tail.

Wood rats are also called pack rates because they have a curious habit of collecting an assortment of man-made materials for their nests. They're especially fond of confiscating small, bright, shiny objects, like tin, colored-glass shells, coins and stones.

Wood rats are also sometimes called trade rats because of the popular myth that when the wood rat takes something, it always leaves a replacement. In fact, what's really happening is while carrying one prize, the pack rat might spot another trophy that's more attractive, so he drops the first object to pick up the second.

Pack rats build large nests on large rock ledges in the woods and fields. The bulky nests are generally made of sticks, twigs and leaves, and may be as much as four feet high. But these big nests make it very impossible for the wood rats that live in the open desert to hide their homes from their enemies.

As it turns out, God has given pack rats the wisdom to use the natural resources of the desert to overcome this problem. The pack rat covers his conspicuous nest with cactus plants. Then for additional protection, it places a piece of cactus spines all around the entrance to the nest.

Amazingly, the little wood rat can scramble easily over and around the long, sharp spines of the cactus without being hurt. They're one of the few animals that can navigate safely between the thorns to feed on the juicy pads. But the coyote that tries to dig a wood rat out of its nest will be sorry.

The pack rat has prepared an advance and has little to fear from the wily coyote. His home is so well protected that it's almost as though it's a fortress defended by an army with drawn swords. And just as God protects the wood rat, we can be protected from temptations of the enemy by collecting treasures of truth and surrounding ourselves with the sword of the Spirit.

Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: International, interactive Bible study, that's what this is all about. Bible Answers Live for our friends who are tuning in for the first time. It's a call-in Bible answer program. You're invited to listen or call in if you have any Bible-related question. We don't talk about romance or finance, but we do talk about the Word of God.

And that number, it's toll-free in North America, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That acronym makes it a little easier to remember that the Bible is God's Word. That's 1-800-463-7297. We welcome you to call in now while we have phone lines open. It's a good chance that you will get your phone call on the air during this program. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Devitt. Good evening Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening Pastor Dick.

Pastor Dick: Welcome back home. I understand you were in big "D" this weekend.

Pastor Doug: Yes. I was in hurricane country.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: We actually were speaking in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and we were afraid. I had three speaking appointments in churches both around Southwestern University, as well as Fort Worth, in the Will Rogers auditorium. And we thought that the hurricane panic was going to destroy our program; and we were praying.

If no one else knows, part of the reason that hurricane turned was for our program.

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: And, of course, we're thankful for all of our friends from Houston. Matter of fact, we invited refugees that were in the auditorium. They opened a part of the auditorium for refugees from New Orleans, as well as Houston, and we invited them to our program.

Pastor Dick: Very good

Pastor Doug: But all three venues were packed.

Pastor Dick: Praise the Lord!

Pastor Doug: God blessed, He held back the storm, and I just flew in a few hours ago. I'm very glad to be back to continue our radio program with our friends.

Pastor Dick: Well, we normally start with a word of prayer so let's do that.

Father in heaven, we are so thankful that You have given Pastor Doug traveling mercies and protected him as he sought to return home today from the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And we're thankful Lord, for all those people who have been migrating back to their homes down in the Southwest. We pray that Your hand will continue to guide everyone there. Now Lord, I pray that You will focus here on the radio program with us. We are turning our minds and our hearts to You, heavenly Father. We want to hear from You tonight, and we pray that You will

speak to our hearts and give us wisdom and insight so that we can share the Good News of a loving God with our callers tonight. May we bring You honor and glory in all that we do and say Lord. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Dick: Well you know Doug, God is such a wonderful Creator. He must have a great sense of humor in creating all these little creatures of the world. But as you were reading this amazing fact, I was thinking that sometimes when we approach God, we can get pricked. It's not necessarily a gentle journey.

Pastor Doug: Well that's right. It makes you think about that when you consider this wood rat lives among the cactus, - -

Pastor Dick: Exactly

Pastor Doug: - - and yet, he does not get stuck. And the Lord, of course, wants us to approach Him. One of the amazing things about this story is that it reminds us the same way that he defends his nest with these thorns - -

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: - - to keep the enemy out.

Pastor Dick: Okay, um-hmm

Pastor Doug: The sword of the Spirit is what God has given us, that double-edged sword. It won't hurt us. It will save us, but it keeps the enemy at bay.

Pastor Dick: Right

Pastor Doug: This is what Jesus used. Every time the devil came at Him with a temptation, He said, "It is written." And all three times He quoted Scripture to resist the attack of that wolf, so to speak.

Pastor Dick: In essence, what you're saying, Pastor Doug, is the full armor of God that Ephesians talks about is what God has given us, right?

Pastor Doug: Exactly right, which, of course, is a good lead-in to our free offer for tonight.

Pastor Dick: It is, that's right. We are offering a book that we--I don't think we've offered this recently anyway. It has been quite awhile. It's called, The Armor of God. And, of course, there is a great war, a great battle going on for our souls. This book helps to draw us into Ephesians chapter 6, and especially the verses that deal with the full armor of God.

We would like to make this book available to anyone who will call our resource operators tonight. 1-800-835-6747. It's a free call and the operators are standing by. And if you will ask for, The Armor of God, we will make sure that the operators send it out to you asap.

Pastor Doug: And it's free as well, the book.

Pastor Dick: The book is free, the call is free, and salvation is free too.

Pastor Doug: That's right. It's free for us. It cost Jesus plenty.

Pastor Dick: That's right. So call 1-800-835-6747 and ask for, The Armor of God. We normally take a couple of Internet questions, Pastor Doug, before we go to the phones, so let's do that. First of all, this is kind of an intriguing question. I think we've had this several times before, but this is from Walter, who says, "Pastor Doug, I don't pray as often as I should. If I forget to pray for forgiveness for my sins before final judgment, will I be condemned?"

Pastor Doug: You know, even though I was raised with a Jewish background, I still remember being taught that prayer. "Now I lay me down to sleep, and pray the Lord my soul to keep. And if I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."

A lot of people think that you just got to make sure and say that prayer. Of course, that only does you any good if you die in your sleep.

Pastor Dick: Right, yeah.

Pastor Doug: So you're almost hoping that you die in your sleep because you're prepared. You've repented just before you go to sleep.

Pastor Dick: That's right, that's right.

Pastor Doug: Well, I don't know that most people die in their sleep, at least at night when they go to sleep. But it's the idea of "saved, lost, saved, lost"; and I don't believe that the Bible teaches that people walk in such a roller coaster experience with the Lord, where it's like a revolving door - -

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: - - and they're going in and out all the time of salvation.

Pastor Dick: Um-hm

Pastor Doug: We are either walking with the Lord and in His hands; we're walking towards God or away from God.

Pastor Dick: Um-hm, um-hm

Pastor Doug: There are only two roads. We're on the road to life or the road to death. The idea that we're zig-zagging back and forth between the devil is not really consistent teaching. The trend of our life is always going to be one of a journey towards God, or away from God; or either like the prodigal son coming home, or running from the Father.

So it's not a question of, "If I happen to say this prayer," you know, "if I should think a thought that's evil or do something wrong, I've got to hurry and say this prayer before I go to sleep in case I die in my sleep."

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: It almost paints a picture that God is waiting up there with a billy club to see if He can catch us when we're not prepared and knock us out.

Pastor Dick: Yeah, yeah.

Pastor Doug: But that's not how God operates. He's not trying to see if He can catch us unprepared. He wants us to be saved.

Pastor Dick: That's right, that's right.

Pastor Doug: So this whole idea I think is a misunderstanding of how salvation works. You know, there's a statement in a book I love called Steps to Christ. It's not in the Bible, but the teaching is in the Bible. And there the author says, "It's not the occasional good deed or misdeed that determines whose side we are on, but it is the habitual words and acts."

Are we walking towards the Lord, or away from Him? So I hope that helps a little.

Pastor Dick: Okay, very good. Our second question comes from, well it comes from South Africa as a matter of fact. It says, "Pastor Doug, I do not believe in predestination. If I start by saying that Jesus' purpose for coming to earth was to die for the sins of the world, then it follows that at some point, someone would have to kill Jesus, or sacrifice Him. I would like to think that God did not predestine some particular person to kill or sacrifice our Lord. Your thoughts?"

Pastor Doug: Well, of course, if the Lord predestined that Judas should betray Jesus, then that makes God an accomplice in Judas' lying and stealing, basically his betraying Christ for money. God doesn't participate in evil. He is perfect, He is sinless. Jesus came in the world knowing what would happen, knowing that He was entering enemy territory and it was going to cost Him His life to be our Substitute.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: But that doesn't mean He was making it happen. So having a pre-knowledge that Jesus was basically on a suicide mission when He came to this world does not mean that He was making someone sin, or murder Him, because that would make Him an accomplice.

Pastor Dick: Right

Pastor Doug: It's a whole different approach.

Pastor Dick: Good. Let's go to the phones. We have a couple of lines still open to our callers if you would like to talk to Pastor Doug. If you have a Bible-related question, give us a call right now at 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297. Our first caller, Pastor Doug, is from Flora, Indiana. Robert is listening to us on the Internet and we want to go to Robert. Good evening Robert.

Robert: Good evening

Pastor Dick: Welcome to the program.

Robert: Good evening Pastor Devitt, Pastor Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: Yes sir

Robert: I love your program. I have a question for you. I have two questions. I'd like for you to answer the first one and the second one if you have time.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Robert: It is Isaiah 45, verse 7. I need a little bit more explanation of this verse please.

Pastor Doug: Alright. This is a question that is commonly asked. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Now when you hear God saying, "I create evil," it almost makes it sound like that the Lord - -

Robert: It scares me!

Pastor Doug: Yeah--it makes it sound like the Lord says, "Evil comes from me." And the word "evil" here can mean "calamity." In other words, God is saying, "I can make the sun shine and I can make the clouds. I can send peaceful weather, and I can allow tornadoes." So the word "evil" there is in the context of God does, sometimes, send judgment in bad things.

Evil things don't always mean evil in the sense of the devil. Whenever you translate words from one language to another, they can often have a slightly different meaning. When this verse was translated from the original Hebrew, the word "evil" there--think of it in the terms of bad weather. Think of it in the terms of storms.

Jesus actually helps us understand this in the New Testament. It says, "God sends rain and sunshine on the good and the bad. So think of the evil here as the rain, as the storm, see what I'm saying?

Robert: Yes

Pastor Doug: God may allow natural disasters to come as a judgment and people - -

Robert: I knew you could answer it [chuckles].

Pastor Doug: - - people look upon that as something evil that happens, but it's a calamity, but it is not evil in the sense of like the devil.

Robert: Thank you

Pastor Doug: Does that help?

Robert: I have no doubt that you could explain that to me, and thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Now, you said you have two questions?

Robert: Yes. The second one, the disciple said, "I die a little bit every day." Did he mean that the old self was dying and that he was actually growing in Christ more every day?

Pastor Doug: When Paul says that he dies daily, it's just that every day we need to deny self and begin our journey. Basically, Paul is quoting Jesus. Jesus said, "Whoever would come after Me, let him deny himself daily, take up his cross, and follow Me." That's in 1st Corinthians 15:31 where he said, "I die daily."

That just means we take up our cross every day. We choose every day to follow the Lord. We are reborn every day.

Robert: Babies.

Pastor Doug: For instance, in the Lord's prayer, "Give us this day our daily bread," our relationship with the Lord is a daily relationship.

Pastor Dick: Um m, amen

Pastor Doug: It's not something you do once when you're ten years old and then you just go your own way.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Got it?

Robert: Yes sir, thank you so much.

Pastor Doug: Thank you Robert.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Robert, God bless. We want to talk with Lynn in Flandreau, South Dakota, who is also listening to us on the Internet. Welcome Lynn.

Lynn: Hello

Pastor Dick: Your question please?

Lynn: Yes. I would like to know in church, as far as reverencing that to the worship of God, is it permissible to, you know, do the dancing around, the um, you know, the "slain in the spirit," you know, that type of thing?

Pastor Doug: Well Lynn, this program is a Bible answer program; and I always like to come back and say, "Let's look at the Bible examples." Can you find an example in the Bible of people being "slain in the spirit"?

Lynn: No. I have never been able to. I have searched everywhere and it, um- -

Pastor Doug: And for our friends who are listening, let me explain this, Lynn, because not everyone may know what we're talking about. But in some of the popular churches--you may see their services on television--people come before the pastor; and maybe he'll lay hands on them and they fall down and they begin to tremble.

Or, he may even just be speaking and it happens to them while they're in their pews or in the front row. And they're on the floor and they may go into convulsions; they may just lay still, and it's suppose to be a feeling of ecstasy. There's really no example in the Bible of any apostle or pastor in the Bible doing this, even though we know they were Spirit-filled in the Bible.

So, quite honestly, this is a practice that has come from some pagan religions. It was very popular in a number of pagan tribes in different religions, actually in different continents, that people would be overcome with the spirits and they'd lose their self-control. But the Bible tells us that, "The Spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets" .

In other words, God does not give you the Holy Spirit to take away your self-control and dignity. He gives you the Holy Spirit that you might be in control of the Spirit over the flesh, the mind over the body. So, I would have to respectfully challenge my friends in some of these churches that are passing out and going into convulsions, and they call it the Holy Spirit. I don't see this happening in the New Testament, or the Old.

Lynn: Okay

Pastor Doug: Can you find an example?

Lynn: I have yet to. I have read through the Word, um, I've been trying to figure out a lot of different things as far as the various denominations go.

Pastor Doug: You know, I want to give you some verses, 1st Corinthians 14 and verse 40. It says, "Let all things be done decently and in order," and Paul is talking about in the church service. Things should be done decently and in order. God is not the author of confusion.

And, quite honestly, I have been to churches--and so has Pastor Dick--in Africa where people are demon possessed; and they are writhing on the ground and flopping around, and we pray over them and it stops!

Pastor Dick: Um-hm, um-hm.

Pastor Doug: So I really have questions about churches where they pray over people and they start writhing around.

Pastor Dick: That's right.

Pastor Doug: It just seems strange. Now, I've got a book that I'll send you a free copy, Lynn, if you'd like. Pastor Dick will give you the number. It's called, "Captured by Tongues," because what you're describing is often--it accompanies the counterfeit example of tongues in the Bible, okay?

Lynn: You know Pastor Doug, I will be honest with you, I believe I have that book already.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Lynn: It was sent to me, well I guess it was sent to me through your program. I just got out of prison not too long ago; so your program and your Bible studies did a lot for me.

Pastor Doug: Praise God! Yeah, we have a lot of friends in prison that we minister to.

Lynn: And it really did a lot for me; and um, I'm getting, you know, back more and more into the Word. It has been kind of tough once you get out. You're kind of back in the real world and all of a sudden, you know, everything kind of comes down on you at one time.

Pastor Doug: Well you just walk in the newness of life and get connected with a good Bible-teaching church, okay?

Lynn: That's what I'm trying to do right now sir.

Pastor Doug: Alright well, hey, God bless you Lynn and hope to hear back from you; and trust that those answers will come.

Pastor Dick: Lynn, thanks for the call. And for our other listeners who might like to have a copy of that book, the number is 1-800-835-6747. Ask for, "Captured by Tongues." Let's go to Hidden Valley Lake, California. Bruce is uh - -

Bruce: Hi, how are you guys tonight?

Pastor Dick: Doing fine Bruce.

Bruce: You know, I've got this curious question that just occurred to me the other day. There are so many references to rebuilding the temple in the Bible. I turned to Matthew chapter 23, verses 16, for about four verses - -

Pastor Doug: Okay

Bruce: - - where Jesus is talking to the disciples and to the Pharisees?

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Bruce: And He's kind of angry about everything He says here, but He says, "Blind guides, how terrible it will be for you, for you say that it means nothing to swear by God's temple. You can break that oath, but when you say that it is binding and swear by the gold in the temple, blind fools, which is greater? the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?" But all the references Jesus used about making the temple out of living stones, - -

Pastor Doug: Uh-huh

Bruce: - - and I've been to the Wailing Wall a few times and they call it the synagogue there; and they tell you to honor it. And they have Sabbath there. Now, the walls are broken down, but the living stones are still there worshiping God. It [tape skips, inaudible] by the Wailing Wall. Now wouldn't that qualify as rebuilding the temple in Jesus' new sermon, about the new temple that He's going to build?

Pastor Doug: Well now, I have been to the Wailing Wall as well, twice. And what you're looking at when you go to the Wailing Wall is actually not even part of the ancient temple proper. It was part of the outer foundation stones. A few of them were laid by Solomon and some by Herod the Great. But they just lead up to the big Pavement where the Romans did not leave one stone upon another; and Jesus predicted in Matthew 24 there would not be.

The living stones that Peter is referring to are you and me, and we are built up--Ephesians chapter 2. It says, "We are built up into a holy habitation for God." And again, Paul says, "You are the temple of God." So that's why when Christ died on the cross, Bruce, the veil was rent in the earthly temple from top to bottom. One of the last things Jesus said, the last time He left the temple, He said, "Your house is left to you desolate."

So the significance of that temple, where they sacrificed physical lambs, was transferred to the spiritual temple where Jesus is the Lamb of God; so I don't need to go to a Jewish temple to offer sacrifice anymore, even though I'm a Jew. Christ is my Lamb.

Bruce: And also, Jesus was resurrected and glorified, so His temple was rebuilt like He promised it; and it says in heaven that Jesus is the temple.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, the Lord is the temple.

Bruce: Jesus is the light, so isn't He the temple that goes beyond what Solomon - -

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Oh absolutely. That's why Jesus said, "Destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days I will make one without hands." You know Pastor Dick, I was just thinking of a book that--if Bruce hasn't read this yet--that he'd enjoy is the book on "Spiritual Israel" that Steve Wohlberg and I wrote. It deals specifically with this. We'll send him a free copy if he'd like.

Pastor Dick: Well Bruce, that would be a good resource for you. And, of course, the number is 1-800-835-6747. It's an 800 number, and "Spiritual Israel" is what you would ask for. So call the resource operators, if you haven't read it yet, and get a copy and let us hear from you on what you think, okay?

Stacy: I have two questions, but if you only have time to answer one that's fine [cross talk].

Pastor Doug: Take them one at a time, okay?

Stacy: It's Daniel 7 and it's verse 25.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Stacy: And it's the last line, "...time and times and the dividing of a time." Now I know that's three and a half years, but how does it become 1,260 years, because I know a day is a year in prophecy. So would you explain that for me?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. For our friends, that time period that you see in Daniel, "a time and times and the dividing of time," you find that time period about five times in the Bible. You also find that in Daniel chapter 12, Stacy.

Stacy: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Very simply, a "time" meant a complete cycle of the seasons, which was one year. A "times" meant a pair, or a couple.

Stacy: Right

Pastor Doug: So that's three. And a "dividing" would mean "a half," cut in two. Now, the reason that we know it equals 1,260 is because in Revelation it calls that same time period "42 months" and there were 30 days in the Jewish month. And then it also calls it 1,260 days in Revelation chapter 12.

So, if you have a pencil, or you could even be taping this, I'll tell you real quick. You've got Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 11:2, Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6, Revelation 12:14 and Revelation 13:5. That time period appears several times; and it left out Esther chapter 1. It's kind of a hidden example there.

Pastor Dick: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: But you just match them up, and the only way that you can get 42 months, 1,260, and time, times and the dividing of time, it's all the same period. Jesus taught for three and a half years. The famine in the days of Elijah was three and a half years. And then it tells us that there is a prophetic three and a half years during the Dark Ages, when God's Word would go underground. "The woman fled into the wilderness."

Stacy: So you mean when they say "prophetic," that means then it's 1,260 years and not - -

Pastor Doug: When you're dealing with a prophecy, a day equals a year.

Stacy: Yeah

Pastor Doug: It is just very clear that, for instance, the prophecy that Daniel gives in Daniel chapter 9, he tells how much longer until the Messiah comes. He said there would be 490 days.

Stacy: Right, which is years.

Pastor Doug: Well it wasn't 490 days until Jesus came. It was 490 years exactly - -

Stacy: Right

Pastor Doug: - - from the rebuilding of the temple. So we know that a day equals prophecy [sic] in Daniel, and this is also true in the other apocalyptic prophecies.

Stacy: Okay

Pastor Doug: So it's a big study. We've got just a second or two for your second question.

Stacy: Okay, it's short. It's Psalm 23, "The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want." What does that mean, "I shall not want"?

Pastor Doug: The word "want" in Old English means "be in need."

Stacy: Okay

Pastor Doug: Because the Lord is my shepherd, I will not be in need. I will not be wanting or doing without. To be "in want" means to be impoverished. And because Jesus is our Shepherd, He goes on to lead us beside the abundant pasture and the still waters. In other words, He supplies all the needs for His sheep.

Hope that helps a little bit Stacy and, actually, I've got a whole sermon on the 23rd Psalm. I don't think I put it in book form yet, but there are some other good ones out there. You remember Phillip Keller?

Pastor Dick: Yes, yeah.

Pastor Doug: He wrote a good book on it. You can't improve on that one. Good book on the 23rd Psalm. Friends, we're going to take a break. We like to always mention half time that don't forget the website; a lot of resources and archives of the program at AmazingFacts.org.

And please also remember to check out this website, 05Revive.org. There is an international week of prayer, revival, a time for fasting and prayer. Amazing Facts is going to be leading out with 3 Angels Broadcasting; and it'll be on radio and TV around the country, around the world. You may want to enjoy that and participate. We'll be back in just a moment.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: Thank you Pastor Dick. If you have just tuned in friends, you are listening to Bible Answers Live. It is a live, international, interactive Bible study. People are listening through their radios and on the Internet around the world, and it's a very simple program. You ask Bible questions, we will do our best to search the Word of God together and find the answers.

Jesus said, "Seek, and ye will find." There's a toll-free number in North America if you'd like to call. It's 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297, or just log on to AmazingFacts.org or .com and you'll find a way to listen through the Internet as well. I am Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: And I'm Dick Devitt, and just before we took our break you mentioned 05Revive. Tell us a little bit more about it, where, when, what, how, who.

Pastor Doug: I am happy to. Matter of fact, this is part of the reason I was in Dallas this morning; I should say Fort Worth, actually--I flew out of the DFW Airport--is because we were doing kind of a preparation rally for this meeting that will be broadcast on radio and TV around the world called, Drawing Near--05Revive Drawing Near.

We're inviting people to gather with their friends and their churches. We are providing a satellite feed to anyone that has either Internet or satellite reception equipment. It is going to be a week not of outreach and evangelism, but in-reach and nurturing. All of us have friends and loved ones.

Maybe you know some relatives or children who have wandered from the Lord. This is the perfect meeting to bring your Christian friends and loved ones that have strayed from God to help them find their First Love, to bring them back.

Pastor Dick: Amen, amen.

Pastor Doug: It's a unique program that has really the old fashioned revival, biblical preaching.

Pastor Dick: Praise the Lord, that sounds good Doug. And when will this program begin?

Pastor Doug: Thank you, I forgot to say when it is. It's going to be, of course, up linked from the Will Rogers auditorium, the Convention Center in Fort Worth, and it's November 4th through the 12th. For more information just go to 05Revive.org, okay?

Pastor Dick: Okay, 05Revive.com. Thank you Pastor Doug. Let's take our first caller for this part of the program, and we'll go to Dallas. We want to talk with Jim who is listening on KSKY. Hello Jim.

Jim: Hi, thank you very much. I had a question about your teaching on Enoch and Elijah; but you said something earlier which prompted me to be flipping through my Concordance here. The question you answered the other gentleman about God saying, "I make peace, and create evil," I'm looking through here and I notice that the Hebrew word there is the word that is consistently used when God says, "They did evil in my eyes." There's a different Hebrew word for "calamity." And it still doesn't seem to solve the problem because you used the word "allow;" but God used the word "create" and it's the same word where He says He creates a new heaven and new earth, which He certainly wouldn't allow. So, it seems like he's saying He creates evil. That is what He said and that's the words He chose.

Pastor Doug: Do you believe that God creates evil?

Jim: I believe this verse says that.

Pastor Doug: Well, my point is - -

Jim: And I'm not going to spin it otherwise.

Pastor Doug: Are you a Christian?

Jim: I'm comparing the word. It's the same Hebrew word, 7540, which is--It looks like over a hundred times here in the Concordance, "He did evil in the sight of the LORD" "He did evil in the sight of the LORD" "He did evil in the sight of the LORD" [cross talk] - -

Pastor Doug: Alright, well, I've got it in front of me. Of course, this is not the question - -

Jim: 7451

Pastor Doug: - - this is not the question you said you wanted to ask [cross talk]. I've got it in front of me with the definition right from the original language. And one of the definitions is, "bad, disagreeable, malignant, unpleasant," - -

Jim: It admittedly may be that, but He still--He doesn't allow it. He creates it. He used the word "create" there, which is the word, "I create a new heaven and a new earth" - -

[Cross talk]

Pastor Doug: I agree with that. I agree with that.

Jim: Okay, fair enough. My question on Enoch and Elijah, you - -

Pastor Doug: I said very clearly that like when God sent the flood in Noah's day, you can say create.

Jim: Okay. My question on Enoch and Elijah, - -

Pastor Doug: I have no problem with that.

Jim: - - you've taught that they're already in heaven with their immortal bodies. And I'd like to know, as far as I can tell, that's definitely not positioned in Scripture; and I'd like to know what verses you're basing that on that would actually say that, as opposed to implying that from other things that's actually said in the verse?

Pastor Doug: Well there are two ways of drawing conclusions from the Bible. One is a blatant Scripture that would state something. The other is by comparing verses. And when people are resurrected, the Lord says in 1st Corinthians 15 that the mortal puts on immortality;" and they are changed "in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye." Since Enoch and Elijah are already resurrected, do you contest that they are in heaven?

Jim: Based on what verse?

Pastor Doug: Based on what verse are they in heaven?

Jim: Yeah. What verse are they already resurrected?

Pastor Doug: Alright. Mark chapter 9 tells us that Elijah appeared to the disciples in - -

Jim: In a vision.

Pastor Doug: Oh, so you don't think it was really Elijah?

Jim: It was a vision.

Pastor Doug: Alright. When Elijah goes to heaven in a fiery chariot, do you think he really went to heaven, in 2nd Kings chapter 2?

Jim: Look, the book you quoted earlier says uh--1st Timothy 6:16 says, "Jesus Christ which is the only Potentate, King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality." He alone has immortality.

Pastor Doug: So when Moses appeared - -

Jim: First you quoted about the resurrection. That's when Enoch and Elijah will get their resurrected bodies at that time. At the time Jesus - -

Pastor Doug: Well, wait a second. The word "immortal" means "cannot die." Do you believe that Enoch and Elijah are asleep, or alive?

Jim: I believe they're dead.

Pastor Doug: So you don't believe Elijah really did go to heaven in a fiery chariot?

Jim: He no more went to heaven than when Philip was caught up to heaven. He was put down somewhere else. And so [rambles]

Pastor Doug: You're showing that you haven't read the whole story because when Elijah disappeared, some people thought maybe God set him down somewhere else, and Elisha said, "Go look for him." They looked three days and they never found him. - -

Jim: Three days, wow, that's a long time [caller keeps rambling on].

Pastor Doug: - - And God said specifically to Elijah, "I have shown you I am going to take you to heaven." Now, you can believe the Word or not, but that's what it says in 2nd Kings chapter 2. It doesn't seem, Jim, you called to ask a question but to make some sort of statement and we're not sure what it was, but thanks for your call.

Wayne: God bless you. I have a question about tongues. I guess you touched on it a little bit on one of your previous callers.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Wayne: But I'm just wondering, is tongues relevant now?

Pastor Doug: Is tongues relevant now? I believe all the gifts of the Spirit are relevant now. Tongues is one of the many gifts that are listed and when you look at the other gifts of the Spirit that you might find in 1st Corinthians chapter 12,- -

Wayne: Right

Pastor Doug: - - all of the other gifts are still needed, the gifts of prophecy, the gifts of administration, there are miracles, healings, so forth. The church still needs all of these gifts because they are attributes of the body of Christ. And so the gift of tongues, the purpose for the gift of tongues is needed more sometimes than others.

Let me illustrate. One of the gifts is healing. Well the gift of healing is needed more when people are sick.

Wayne: Right

Pastor Doug: Jesus said, "It's the sick who need a physician. When everyone's well you don't need a physician."

Wayne: Right

Pastor Doug: The gift of tongues has a purpose. On Pentecost, the gift was given. When Jews were visiting from all the Roman empire who did not speak Hebrew--they spoke the languages of the counties where they lived--

Wayne: You're talking about in Acts.

Pastor Doug: Acts chapter 2.

Wayne: Correct, okay.

Pastor Doug: And so God gave the apostles the supernatural ability to speak in these languages to communicate the Gospel.

Wayne: Okay

Pastor Doug: It's like in Mark 16, Jesus said to the apostles, "You will speak with other tongues." And even in the Old Testament, it says, "I will speak to this people with other tongues." So when there's a breakdown in communication, God gives the gift.

Very quickly, I don't have time to tell the whole story, but I believe I received the gift of tongues. I was all by myself crossing New Mexico. I picked up a Mexican hitchhiker who did not speak any English. I spoke very little Spanish, and I prayed God would give me the ability to communicate with him.

He rode with me for three days from New Mexico--I was driving a very slow truck--to my home in Northern California. By the time I arrived, I was speaking Spanish and he accepted the Lord and was baptized.

Wayne: Wow

Pastor Doug: That, to me, is the gift of tongues.

Wayne: Okay

Pastor Doug: God gives you the ability to communicate the Gospel.

Wayne: Okay. I uh - -

Pastor Doug: So do we still need it? Sure.

Wayne: Okay. I'm looking in 1st Corinthians 14.

Pastor Doug: Okay

Wayne: And would you say that there, just to follow quick, would you say that there might be a legitimate debate amongst Christians on the relevancy of tongues today?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, very much.

Wayne: Because I've heard other, you know, this is something that I'm still trying to deal with; and I've heard other people say that, no, the gift of tongues is no longer, you know, - -

Pastor Doug: Well there are two extremes, Wayne. I'm always disappointed when I hear some preachers say, "The gift of tongues was just for the past. We don't need it now." That's irresponsible. And the other extreme is to say that, "You have to speak in tongues or you don't have the Holy Spirit." That is certainly not biblical.

People take the statement where Paul says, "I would that you all spoke with tongues," as a mandate that everyone's suppose to babble in tongues. Very simply, in 1st Corinthians 14, Paul is making it clear that when you do speak, make sure the people around you understand. That's why he says in verse 9, "So likewise, except you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken?"

Wayne: Right

Pastor Doug: People need to know what you're saying when you speak. So these churches that are babbling in their churches when no one knows what they're saying, that's irresponsible, and you question that. You know Wayne, we had a question on this tonight. Could I please send you my book that I wrote on tongues? It's free. Would that be okay?

Wayne: Sure

Pastor Doug: Tell you what, call the toll-free number, it's a free phone call, and nobody is going to knock on your door and hassle you. They just want your address, they'll send you the book. Ask for the book, tell them you're listening to Amazing Facts. Say I'd like the book, "Captured by Tongues." It deals with the debate of tongues in the churches and the relevancy, just what you're talking about.

Wayne: I would appreciate it.

Pastor Dick: Alright. Wayne, here's the phone number, 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the book, "Captured by Tongues" and they'll send it right out to you, okay? That's 1-800-835-6747, and thanks for the call Wayne. Let's go next to North Carolina. We want to talk with James who's listening on the Internet. Welcome James.

James: Hey, how are you doing? Thanks for taking [call drops].

Pastor Dick: Oops, James? We just lost you. If you're listening on your radio, please call us back.

Pastor Doug: That wasn't our doing. I think he may have bumped a button. We're sorry we lost you James.

Pastor Dick: Yeah, I think so. Give us a call. We'll go next to Lexington, Tennessee. BJ is on Live Talk Radio. Hello BJ, welcome to the program.

BJ: Good evening Pastor Doug, Pastor Dick.

Pastor Doug and Pastor Dick: Good evening

BJ: I really enjoy your program.

Pastor Doug: Yes, and your question?

BJ: Yes sir. I just had a simple question. Actually a couple of phone calls ago, y'all were talking about Enoch and Elijah.

Pastor Doug: Yes

BJ: You know, the Bible says it's appointed once or, you know, for each man to die, I believe. Now I'm probably not quoting it exactly right.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. "It is appointed unto man to die and after this, the judgment." That's in Hebrews.

BJ: Yes sir, that's it. I didn't know where it was. But my question was if Enoch was drawn up or raptured up, or whatever, when was is his time appointed to die?

Pastor Doug: Well, there are two ways that everybody has to die. First of all, God said to Adam, "In the day you eat the forbidden fruit, you will die." Well Adam died spiritually that day, didn't he?

BJ: Yes sir

Pastor Doug: Okay. We know that he discovered he was naked. His robe of light disappeared. You can read in Hebrews chapter 11:15, it says, "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death." So how do we reconcile this? It says by faith he did not die. So when it says, "It is appointed unto man once to die," first of all, that's a general statement meaning mankind, generally, will die and then we face judgment.

We don't get a second chance. Enoch did not die. He's an exception, by faith. And, of course, Elijah did not die as well. He took a fiery chariot. But even Enoch did die spiritually, because before you can be saved, you must die to self. You must be crucified with Christ. That's why Paul said, "I die daily." So Enoch had to die that death and be born again. See what I'm saying?

BJ: Yes, yes sir. So the way I'm understanding what you're saying is it could be physically or spiritually?

Pastor Doug: Yeah--well yeah. Generally speaking, the verse in Hebrews means that everybody dies, and then you face judgment; but there are, of course, a couple of exceptions, those being Enoch and Elijah.

BJ: Yes sir. That always - -

Pastor Doug: Hope that helps a little bit.

BJ: Yes sir. That always just blew my mind though, what would happen to Enoch, you know, when the two witnesses come back. If one of them is not Enoch, you know, what would happen to him?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. People wonder, "How could that Scripture be true that 'Man must die'?" But keep in mind, first of all, he's speaking in general terms there. Generally, 99.99999999999 percent of the time everybody that has been born has died.

BJ: Yes sir

Pastor Doug: So it is safe to say that. But even Enoch had to die spiritually to self so he could be born again.

BJ: Okay. I appreciate it very much.

Pastor Doug: The very day that Adam sinned, he died spiritually.

Pastor Dick: Alright. Thanks for the call BJ. We'll go next to New Haven, Connecticut. Jeremiah is also on the Internet. Welcome Jeremiah.

Jeremiah: Hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Dick.

Pastor Dick: Yes sir

Jeremiah: My question is do fallen angels have the ability to take on human form? Because I read that holy angels have taken human form, with the example of the two angels that, I believe, visited Abraham and Lot.

Pastor Doug: Yes. There's a verse where the Lord says, I believe it's in 2nd Corinthians 11:14. "For Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." So, we know that the devil can create illusions of being angels of light. I think that there's every reason biblically to believe that fallen angels can appear as people.

I think their power is limited, but you know the story in, I think it's 1st Samuel, where a witch supposedly conjured up the ghost of Samuel the prophet. Well the witch and King Saul saw something, but it wasn't an angel of God and it wasn't Samuel the prophet; and so it, very likely, was a fallen angel.

Jeremiah: Well it was more of an apparition more than an actual, physical body because when I read the account of the two angels who were with Abraham, Abraham prepared food for these angels [cross talk, unintelligible].

Pastor Doug: Yeah, well those are good angels. You're asking about the evil angels, right?

Jeremiah: Right

Pastor Doug: Everyone knows that good angels can appear as men because there are many cases in the Bible. But don't forget it also says in Revelation 16, "For they are the spirits of devils working miracles." So, they can work miracles and, I think, create illusions.

Jeremiah: Right. I was trying to get a sense of whether or not they can actually have physical bodies and - -

Pastor Doug: No, well no, no, because Paul says in Ephesians we are not wrestling with flesh and blood, - -

Jeremiah: As far as holy angels go, they can take on fully human form because, I mean, all the accounts of, you know, possible angels coming to rescue people. I mean, these are actually physical bodies.

Pastor Doug: Yeah but they don't become people, but they enter our dimension because the angels grabbed onto Lot and took him out of Sodom.

Jeremiah: Right

Pastor Doug: An angel wrestled with Jacob; so they have some physical form obviously.

Jeremiah: Wow, okay.

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Jeremiah: Alright, well thanks.

Pastor Doug: Alright, hey thanks. Good question.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call. Let's go next to Lisa in San Diego, California, listening on KTIE. Welcome Lisa.

Lisa: Thank you

Pastor Dick: Your question please?

Lisa: My question is I was wondering if there is any Scripture that supports a divorce because of verbal abuse?

Pastor Doug: There is no Scripture that uses the word "verbal abuse." You might be wondering about a principle or something.

Lisa: Yes. I'm mainly wondering about the principle.

Pastor Doug: Well, of course, there are biblically two reasons, really, for divorce that are given. One is Matthew 5 where Jesus said, "Saving for the cause of fornication," meaning that if one of the partners, the spouse, violates the marriage vow by committing adultery, that is biblical grounds for divorce.

And then Paul seems to also add to that, that if an unbeliever departs because they just don't want to be married to a Christian and they abandon them, that there may be grounds for that person to be free to remarry. Let me give you that scenario just so I don't create confusion.

Suppose you are a pagan Roman in the time of Paul and you accept Christ and Christianity. And your Roman husband, who has been worshiping Jupiter, says, "I didn't marry a Christian. I'm not going to be married to a Christian," and they leave you and the children. Paul says in such cases, you're not under bondage.

That makes it sound like you're not bound by that vow anymore and that you would be free to remarry. In other words, it's a grounds for divorce. Now, that's hotly debated by people; but

there is nothing in the Bible, Lisa, that really says, "And if your spouse abuses you verbally...." It is very difficult.

I've got a dear friend who is going through a divorce right now. Her husband is just one of the most negative people. It's very sad, and I, quite frankly, it's hard to imagine how they endure the constant degrading, nothing encouraging. But biblically, that's not really grounds for divorce. Maybe separation, see what I'm saying?

Lisa: Okay. Yes I do.

Pastor Doug: Because you get to where you open up the door and you say, "Well, you know, he said something unkind. That's verbal abuse." And anything, pretty soon, becomes verbal abuse. It got to where these sexual harassment suits, if the boss told the secretary, "You look nice today," she'd call it in for sexual harassment.

Lisa: Right

Pastor Doug: I mean, it got out of hand. You open that door and pretty soon the flood comes through. So, it's probably just to stick with the Bible. There's no biblical Scripture for that.

Lisa: And I guess the only verse, the one in Malachi, he says that God hates divorce.

Pastor Doug: "I hate divorce," yeah.

Lisa: Right, but then God also hates the man covering, (unintelligible) himself with violence, as well as his covering, or something along those lines.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well I know it is a heartache. Marriage is a very holy, important, sacred commitment in God's eyes. It is much better for a marriage to be enjoyed, but we know there are some marriages that are endured.

Lisa: Right, right.

Pastor Doug: Okay?

Lisa: Okay. Well thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Pastor Doug: Alright, God bless. Now we do have a study guide. I'll send you a free copy. Matter of fact, we've got that book by Jim Hohnberger that talks about marriage at Amazing Facts. It might give you some encouragement on how to have a happier home. You might leave it lying around. Your husband might pick it up.

I'm looking for the title of it now because it's a new book. I'll tell you what, if you call Amazing Facts and ask for the booklet on marriage, they'll know what you're talking about. And I hope Lisa heard that.

Pastor Dick: Okay, thanks for the call Lisa. Let's go to James who has a question for us. Welcome James.

[Delay]

Pastor Doug: Uh, did we lose him?

Pastor Dick: Well he's still--James are you still--

James: Oh yes

Pastor Dick: There we go.

James: Yeah. You lost me a little earlier but I got you know.

Pastor Doug: Alright

Pastor Dick: Okay

James: My question is this. Do you have to be baptized to take part of Communion? And I've been looking at 1st Corinthians 11, verses 23 through 27, uh well, 29; and basically, verse 27, it says, "Wherefore whosoever."

Pastor Doug: Right. Well, let me ask this question.

James: Right

Pastor Doug: Why would a person, who has not made a commitment to Christ, want to participate in Communion?

James: Well I figure--well, I can't answer that.

Pastor Doug: First of all, Communion means that you are embracing the sacrifice of Christ, His body, His blood, and all that it involves. That is usually something that baptism precedes. In other words, all the apostles that sat at the Lord's supper were baptized first by John the Baptist, or by Jesus.

James: Right, right

Pastor Doug: And it wouldn't make sense. It would be, kind of, backwards to say, "I want to participate in Communion, but I don't want baptism." Now, there might be some rare occasion where a person accepts the Lord, and he goes to church, and they're having the Communion service, and he says, "I've accepted Jesus. I'd like to participate in Communion. I haven't been baptized yet."

If I was the pastor of that church I'd say, "Okay, you've made a commitment to Christ. Here's the Communion. Now let's plan your baptism."

James: Right, okay

Pastor Doug: Isn't that what you do Pastor Dick?

Pastor Dick: That's right

Pastor Doug: Yeah, but obviously, I can't imagine a person saying, "No, I don't want baptism, but I do want Communion."

Pastor Dick: You know what I also do, James, Pastor Doug, I encourage parents not to have their children take Communion until they're old enough to understand the significance - -

Pastor Doug: Yup, that's right

Pastor Dick: - - of the uh - -

Pastor Doug: They need to recognize the sacredness of that.

Pastor Dick: Right, right

James: Oh okay

Pastor Doug: And usually, that's about the same time they're old enough to get baptized.

Pastor Dick: Yeah, that's true.

James: I'd say about the age of 12, or the age of where they understand.

Pastor Doug: Well that's a round number that you find in the Bible. Jesus was 12 when He went to the temple. But it's really when you're old enough to comprehend the themes of the Gospel.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

James: Oh okay

Pastor Doug: That may vary from child to child.

James: Oh okay

Pastor Doug: Alright?

James: Well thank you.

Pastor Doug: Thank you, good question.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call. Let's go to Brooklyn, New York. Candy is listening on WMCA. Welcome Candy.

Candy: Hello, good evening

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Candy: I have a question. I'm reading Genesis and I notice it says in the beginning there was nothing, and then God moved across the waters; and I notice that water is such an important thing all through the Bible.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Candy: But it never told you that God created water.

Pastor Doug: Well that's a good point. Evidently, when God came to this part of our universe, it doesn't say that God created a big blob. It says, "the earth was void." Maybe it was like some of these desolate planets. I understand that some of the moons of Jupiter looked like they're just covered with frozen water.

So, water may have been here. God made everything, because the first verses in the Bible are God made the heaven and the earth. That means He made everything in the earth, everything in the heavens. But, you're right - -

Candy: You know, water is so important. In everything, the world, our bodies are mostly water; and they save life--you need water to sustain life.

Pastor Doug: It does say that God separated the earth from water; [cross talk] you know, all that's here - -

Candy: And there's water above the earth - -

Pastor Doug: You're right, it does appear that the water was already there when God began creating.

Candy: He made everything.

Pastor Doug: Well yeah, He did make the water way back in the beginning. Now, you're actually tip-toeing into a big debate. We know that God began creating our world 6,000 years ago. But some are wondering were any parts of the universe in existence.

Candy: But He says you have water above the skies too, because that's some of the water that came down in the flood. He opened the doors of, um, gates of heaven, the doors, windows of heaven and water came from there down to the earth in Noah's flood.

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Candy: It wasn't just rain; but just this one thing. The next thing I want to ask, how do we know that the descendents of the Moabites, which were Lot and his daughter's children, - -

Pastor Doug: Right

Candy: - - Esau and their line, Ishmael--I sort of have an idea about where they--but, in today's world, who are those people?

Pastor Doug: Well if you read some of the prophecies that you find in Isaiah and other places, you'll see that the descendents, the Edomites, the Moabites and the Ammonites, they were basically all overthrown by some of the surrounding nations, like the Assyrians and Ninevah.

If you go to Jordan today, the capitol is Amman and it gets its name from the Ammonites; but the people don't exist anymore. That whole country has basically been absorbed by the Arab race.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: The ancient Egyptians, Edomites, Moabites really don't exist. They intermarried and disappeared as a distinct people. I am sorry we ran out of time Candy. For anybody else, if we did not get to your call tonight, give us another chance. God willing, we'll be back together again next Sunday for Bible Answers Live.

Keep in mind, it is a listener-supported program. There's also a lot more. You can keep listening to Bible questions by looking at the archives. Look at them and then listen to them at the Amazing Facts website, AmazingFacts.org, next week. God bless.