Phillies Sign Baez for $5.25 Million

The “mystery reliever” has been revealed. According to Jon Heyman (via Twitter), the Phillies are aggressively going after Danys Baez, and have agreed to sign the right-hander to a two-year deal.

The 32-year old had a 4.02 ERA in 71.2 innings with the Baltimore Orioles last year.

The Phillies also signed Tagg Bozied. Bozied spent last season with the Pittsburgh Pirates’ Triple-A club, where he batted .288 in 240 plate appearances. Bozied, 30, is a corner outfielder and first baseman.

Bozied was a big-time power prospect for the San Diego Padres. However, he tore a tendon in his knee while celebrating a walk-off home run in 2004.

UPDATE (1:03 pm 1/5/09): Baez has signed for $5.25 million over two years, according to multiple sources. Not a bad figure for a decent relief pitcher.

because you are such an idiot, I can not help myself. To see that you actually like something the front office did amazes me, I thought for sure you would hate this signing, just like you hated the Raul deal, and the PP deal, and the Halladay/Lee deal, and pretty much everything they have done in the last two years. You are the poster child for JRoll’s comments about frontrunning fans

You’re such a strap beacuse I’m an idiot? Ummmm….OK. I don’t recall voicing a problem with the Ibanez deal or the Polanco deal. And I love the Halladay deal. The Lee deal, as we all know now, was an abomination, so I’m no different than anyone else. Sooooooooo….please try and be accurate before you bash. Thank you for your courtesies.

I do recall you saying they overpaid for Raul and he was not much of a defensive up grade over Pat around this time last year. And not everyone is as short sighted as you and others on here about the Lee deal that had to be done for the sake of the future of an affordable, competitive team past 2010. You want to win one year and then start over again cheer for the Marlins

told you you had a problem with it, and no I do not think so as of now, if he was not hurt last year in the second half anyone would have a hard time saying they over paid him. And if he puts up similar numbers next year I would not say he was overpaid. And there is something to be said about getting a guy early and not waiting til the last minute to sign him, and if that 1 million more it is not a bad thing.

My point is you seem to find some fault in every deal and criticize something about every move the FO makes, even though they have brought together 3 straight NL EAST titles, 2 Straight NL CHAMPIONSHIPS, back to back WS appearances, and ONE WFS. Along with a wonderful product on the field for next year and the years to come. And like some Phans it is not enough and you have to find fault or you feel you life is not compete

They overpaid. But its OK. Thats the guy they wanted. If you recall, last year around this time there were tons of guys out there and some had to settle for below market value because the free agent pool was oversaturated and everyone was all hype about the economy. I was one of the guys in the “wait until the end and get a good guy on the cheap” see: ABREU, Bob. I think the Phils overpaid but I didn’t think it was the end of the world. The reason I care is beacuse I know that if the Phils overpay in one area, they’re gonna tell you that they don’t have money left when its time to address another area. If the Phils weren’t on a “strict budget”, I could care less if they their players anything they wanted. I think they overpaid for Polanco, too.

dipsy the raul signing this year will bite them in the ass, he will do nothing watch the league caught up to him in the second half. and his outfield play was bad too in the second half. baez and tag are low risk high reward guys no big deal. But anyone who says lee was a bad move is either a idiot or works for the phillies. a bad arm prospect with hip conditon, a low level a ball pitcher with a 5.30 era and a fast guy who a lot of scouts said the ground balls he hit to short and beat out in the california league wont happen when he goes to reading, his project numbers converted to clearwater was 270 hitter is that worth a true number one starter?????? only if you are a ass kissing employee of the phillies would you support that salary dump deal.

I am glad you have the crystal ball that can foresee the future of all baseball prospects MikeMike. I do not work for the Phillies PR department. So Raul’s injury had nothing to do with his poor second half, interesting. Again the short sightiness of guys like you who know everything about how a prospect is going to turn out. Check you almighty prospect list from 10 even five years ago, how many of the top 20 are All Stars? Check those list daily and they change with the wind. You will never know what these kids can do until they do it. Sorry I have a little more faith in the FO of this team who have been competitive for the last 5 years, more than in guys visiting blogs or talking on sprotscenter. I am not saying they are always wrong, but I would venture a guess that more often then not they are. There was a sprots Illustrated article on can’t miss pitchers over the last 40 years, and almost all of them missed.

Let’s have a reasonable debate here, people, and not a bunch of childish name calling and barely disguised swearing. This is supposed to be a civilized and intelligent site.

I’ll wait on critiquing the Baez signing until I hear some dollar numbers. But I won’t be too disappointed if Baez signed high. Too many other relievers have already pushed prices up, and Baez is better than most of them.

Phils overpaid Raul and Polanco in $$$ and years. I can say that and be a huge Phillies fan. I wanted Kouzmanof so what do I know, LOL. Bozied out hit Lastings Mileadge in AAA and hit about the same as McCutchen so he has a nice stick. 8 errors though.

Why did the Phils have to give Baez a second guaranteed year? Is it written in Amaro’s contract that he has to give every single free agent one more year than anyone else is willing to offer? (Ibanez, Moyer, Polanco, Baez).

Danys Baez should be given an invite to spring training somewhere and if he pitches well, he gets a 1 year deal. Giving him a 2 year deal is ludicrous.

I didn’t say anything when Amaro gave 3 years to Polanco and then Derosa only gets a 2 year deal, but 2 guaranteed years for Danys freaking Baez? Who was Amaro bidding against for this crappy middle reliever?!?

Rube isn’t effectively using the option year. Why not say something like if Baez pitches in 35+ games he gets a second year or something. SHould’ve been an option year with Moyer for sure. Same with Raul and Polanco in year 3.

I am not sold on this signing. He is talent wise somewhere in between Park and Durbin. Since Park is not coming back I would call it a downgrade. While I know he can close games, he does not represent the significant upgrade the team needs in the pen. With Lidge and Romero’s health in question, they still need two more quality bullpen arms. Will Ruben Amaro come through or will the pen be an achilles heel again in 2010?

Griffin: The way I see it, Amaro gives extra years only for players who are being pursued by others. The Cubs had a huge interest in Ibanez, and Moyer was being courted some by the Rockies. He was wise to lock up Polanco as the cheapest viable third base option even if the extra year didn’t appear to fans as being necessary–he certainly wasn’t going to get Beltre or Figgins cheap. And lets face it, with multi-year contracts going to every semi-decent, or even totally worthless, free agent reliever this year, he may have lost out on Baez without that second year.

You may say that a minor leaguer could replace someone like Baez, but Escalona’s ERA was higher, and Bastardo’s was way higher. Neither of them have Baez’s MLB closing experience, either.

People around here expect every move to be an earthshaking deal and they STILL complain. You had an earthshaking deal. The rest of the moves have been solid, and they have improved the team ove last seaon NOTICEABLY.

Any year, there can be health issues. You can’t sign three or four closers just in case. We’ll just have to hope that this bullpen does its job, like they did in 2008. We’ll have to bear in mind that although Baez may not be the significant upgrade over Park, that Park didn’t even pitch for that great 2008 ‘pen.

I still believe mathieson will make this team and help. i am more concern with the starters, all these moves mean nothing if Hamels doesnt come back, and moyer is a waste, happ is really unknown yet, so i really hope we get better pitching out of hamels and kenrick maybe

My point is that if you are going to sign mediocre middle relievers, sign them to 1 year deals. Amaro did a great job with Park last year, but giving Baez a 2 year deal when there are plenty of mediocrities left (Calero, Condrey, Tyler Walker and tons others) is just not good fiscal sense.

With that said, I wish everyone here a healthy and happy New Year. Let’s go Phils.

I think people are just getting ready to hear Baez signing for 2yr/11m and then going nuts because we could have spent that money elsewhere, and you know where. And they would be right because Baez is NOT a significant upgrade over Bastardo/Escalona/Kendrick or whatever one year guy they can sign. What was Park last year, 1y/1m?

Trade Blanton and Victorino for prospects. Should net what Lee did.
Keep Lee.
Sign Byrd for 5 million a year. Byrd hits in the 7 hole.
Out about 1.5 million, but huge upgrade in the starting rotation, same prospects and a puch in CF or minor downgrade.

Baez could be a great signing. He has success as a closer and despite several bad years, he appears to have recovered from arm troubles last year. Also, he has serious strikeout stuff. I hope he is the answer to some of our bullpen needs and he could be just that if he returns to form. possible diamond in the rough.

So was there some team out their willing entertain Park’s starter fantasy, or did we give up on him or did he sign as a reliever else where for mo’ money? I don’t know much about Baez, but if he had arm problems last year I hope we’re getting a discount.

Joe – I think because Eyre is a “situational lefty” who, while he pitched well for the Phils, has not had a star studded career. That said, I would rather give 2/6 to Baez. He can pitch more innings. I think the Phils will still sign Eyre for less and for one year, unless another team steps up. I would like our bullpen then if J.C. pans out.

I’d be hesitant to sign Eyre, too. He’s a situational lefty, nearing 40 years old, and just had elbow surgery. $2.5 million would be too much.

I haven’t seen anything about the Baez signing except that it was for two years. Therefore, I can’t say he was overpaid.

Howry might have been fine, but if he required an option year from Arizona, the Phils would have had to beat that offer either with initial pay or a second year guarantee. I’m not sure he’d have been worth it.

I really don’t think the bullpen will be a major issue now with Baez on board. Last year’s call-ups, Escalona and Bastardo, also now have some ML experience. I worry about the fifth starter. Moyer still needs knee surgery, and at his age, will probably require a six week recovery or more. He’s no lock to start the season healthy. Kendrick, though healthy, is a bit of an unknown. The only other options are still getting their lumps in Lehigh Valley or Reading. I hope there’s enough money left for another major league experienced arm.

Great so Moyer is close to 50 and needs knee surgery after sportmans hernia surgery. If that’s not a sunk cost….What about Pinero or does that bust the budget which is already busted. Other than his “I’m a starter” fanatsy, is Park asking too much. What’s going on with him? Or does signing Baez mean Park aint gonna happen?

The Baez signing I understand, but what do the Phillies expect to get out of a 30 year old Tagg Bozied who has never tasted the majors before? His minor league numbers are pretty damn solid though…so I wonder what the Phillies are up to.

You are right Joe. Look at it this way. Both Lee and Vic walk after this year. So who do you wanna keep for the season? Lee makes 9m and Vic probably will make 5.5m after arb. Keep Lee. I think that Vic could bring you a blue chipper and a guy with a shot. That would be fine by me. Capable free agent outfielders are a dime a dozen. So you sign one. I love Vic but what would have made more sense?

Absolutely. You wouldn’t need Blanton if you keep Lee either so Vic + Blanton saves you 4.5 mil to get another OF or a reliver and you have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ and whoever. Vic was much more important in the 2 hole, but Polanco will be there so his value decereases, IMO.

Wow the Lee talk continues… “It’s like the Soprano’s, it’s over, find a new show”…
It really wasn’t ‘that’ bad a deal, no team in the modern era has been to three straight WS except the Yanks late 90s mega-team. It’s going to be near impossible for this team to replicate that but with a smart front office they can replicate and maybe surpass what the 90’s/00’s Braves did.

I like Danny Baez I have to admit but I’m so sick of the relying on free agency every year to patch a hole in the bullpen instead of making minor additions. We’ve come a long way from the days of guys like Rick White but this is getting tedious now. I’ve constantly touted or front offices development of our minor league system but there has been too many names there to accept just two prospects could stick in Matheison and Zagurski both who’ve spent entire years out. If this team is set on making every back of the rotation viable prospect a starter we better get finding our own Moylan and Balfour’s instead of chewing up salary in free agency. It’s getting tiring and there’s too many guys who’ve been injured or have pitching a lot of games in our pen to not start getting young guys up to help share the load.

Well, NJ – I’ll take the counterpoint. Firstly, do the 72-74 A’s count as “modern era”. Wow…what a team. I think that if you have a team poised on the brink of a third WS that this is exactly the move you make. Baez (lets all call him Danny, please) makes sense because he is a good bullpen arm, who can pitch multiple innings and, most importantly, can fill in for Lidge if he blows up again. He’s got closer experience and I think Ruben wants him as a hedge. There is currently no one in our system who can fill that role. So, in that sense I thinks its a good sign if its 2y/6m. AND, as a bonus, we probably won’t be bitching next year that we’re stuck with him. I think Eyre will come back, too. Come on. Who is he kidding. But…the Phils could at least not insult him and offer him a major league contract. Now, offering Durbin arbitration was unnecessary. I like Bastardo, Escalona, Kendrick, and maybe Mathieson to round out the pen. Is it New Years there yet?

I wouldn’t qualify that A’s team because it preceded free agency. (How much of a black mark is it on baseball history that the A’s have been one of the most successful teams when they can barely draw a crowd…)

My point with Lee is I see this team being good for a decade with the stars still being around (give or take) with an infusion of role and everyday guys from the system and other players being brought in via other routes. I wish we had kept Lee I really do, but I understand the move and think what is being said about the prospects acquired was the same things being said about Drabek, guys like Michael Bourn and I want to see 5-10 prospects start becoming role players on this team over the next 2+ years in the same way teams like the BoSox and Angels have developed some of their prospects into viable major league players and in some cases stars. I don’t believe in baptism of fire for baseball prospects and I think the attitude inside Philly can be counterproductive because this is the most intense sports town in the US.

As I said I like Baez I really do I’m just saddened by the fact I see so many major league teams grooming prospect arms in middle relief (not talking the Feliz’s and Bard’s) with some kind of consistency. As much as I love what this team is doing it doesn’t have a commitment to giving young players more than a cup of coffee to prove they can stick at the major league level. I understand why we can’t bring these guys up to fill the roles created right now but I want to see Amaro commit to slotting some of these guys in at the bottom of the roster. Don’t care how un-sexy names like Carpenter, Naylor and Savery are, some of these guys are going to be major league players at some point in their career at the very least and our bullpen year on year as good as it is ends a season looking like the social room for a retirement community.

On Durbin I think he can be a very decent arm but he needs the support to work in a crew rather as a primary reliver like in ’08 when he was incredibly overused (what did we expect from guys like him and Hamels last year after thing innings they threw in ’08). Charlie is HORRIBLE at managing a bullpen and he rides the viable middle relievers into the ground. I agree It is ridiculous how Eyre has been treated, with his elbow looking like Mike Lieberthal’s knees he was still one of the best LOOGY’s in the game and more last season and almost saved us in the WS.

I have never seen baez pitch, but his numbers aren’t bad , relief pitcher era i dont go by because i or two bad outing and they it could take a long time to get it down. if you come in and give up 5 runs in less than a inning you need 9 innings or 9 one inning appearance to get it down to 5 runs a game , guys like this had one stretch of 9 appearance without giving up a run good number against right handers, but never saw him so only going by what i could read.

Nj the phillies as you know i will attack. when they are wrong, but they have address the bullpen issues in the draft, two kids you can follow are swimmer and rosenberg both college relief pitchers who arent that far away, mathieson is a stud if he is healthy which it looks like he is especially after the arizona fall appearances, bastardo is a relief pitcher too so they are trying to correct the problem of not addressing relief pitchers in the draft. I believe one of the issue they see is relief pitchers are getting paid big dollars and demanding longer years, which is a bad thing for teams on limited budjects to have to take, make a mistake on a billy wagner and be a middle of the road budjected team and it kills you.

It’s about prospects! Dave Cameron co- founder of Fangraphs said of these prospects:
“The Cliff Lee to Seattle portion of this trade just seems very light in return for the Phillies. They’re getting two power arms with a lot of questions marks and a speedy center fielder without a lot of power. None of these guys are top tier prospects. This is the best Philadelphia could have gotten for Lee? Really? A pu-pu platter of interesting, high-risk guys not really close to the majors for a Cy Young-quality pitcher who is already well on his way to Type A free agency?”
I know what Indians fans felt like. At least if you get a top prospect you have a tradeable chip. Outside of the context of the trade, these guys don’t get you much but hope. They only have value as a package. And that’s quanity other quality which just by the failures rates of top tier to second tier prospects still favors one top tier to 3 2nd tiers No, what happened is the owners low balled Amaro with the budget nonsense. You don’t go to the table crying poverty in a no cap system…when you do you chips lose their value since teams know your desperate to off load them. Embarassing. And we just lost to the Bruins at Fenway…I hope we don’t have to watch another NE rivalry loss there because someone lacked the no- brainer imagination to see Lackey, Lester, Beckett beating out Halladay, Hamels and Blanton. I am sick of my city playing second fiddle to Boston and New York. Just sick of it.

mikemike – what is scary is the lack of attention the ownership gets in the Philly sports media. They just accepted it. I can only think it comes from years of focusing on the Eagles. They are much more capable at covering football than baseball. Even their player analysis is dated. I don’t expect them to suddenly dive into sabrmetrics but they’re whole approach to the game is still in ’90’s. Their concept of baseball economics seems governed by their understanding of football contracts. When you have a cap, a budget is relevant because you know the bottom line. In a no cap system how can you prove that it’s the budget when no one knows the team’s net earnings. And who convinced this city that its a mid-range market esp. when sports economists across the board agree that it is a big market and until the last few years has been considered the worst performing team relative to it’s market. People are so used to going without that when the team spends the money it should proportionate to its success, they think their being spoiled. It’s like some city -wide stockholm syndrome. I don’t get it.

NEPA – yeah, I’ve been asking the same stuff about Park. Don’t know, but Baez is a decent pick-up with his closing experience esp. in light of Bi-polar Brad who is also coming off of surgery. I just heard that Amaro didn’t see Park as a Phillie next year. Too bad. He had a wicked two-seamer.

The Phillies portion of the Lee deal seems light because everyone now expects you to win every part of every trade! The most credible names in baseball say Toronto only ‘saved face’ with the deal we gave them so if we got a ‘very light’ haul from Seattle then we outright stole from Toronto for Halladay (and we know that wasn’t the case). It wasn’t bad, it wasn’t good… Lets move on!

I gotta tell ya, I don’t know how anyone can look at Gillies’ (who I keep calling Clark Gillies) stats and not come away impressed. The guy hit .341 last year with a .430 OBP and 44 steals in high A ball. .341 is .341. Is he a slap hitter who legs out hits? Maybe. But he did hit 9 hrs. He was also hitting .313 in A in ’08 before he got moved up. And he’s supposed to be super fast. Perhaps a Michael Bourne with a bit more pop? A Juan Pierre type (non switch hitter)? These are the type of guys the Phils don’t produce. But thats OK. I’d love to have a speedster who will take a walk batting leadoff for me someday. Am I missing something with this fella or what?

This is the last time I’m going to say anything about the Lee deal.We got bamboozled on it.No doubt…
But if I were ownership with a chip for ,say $100 worth of equity,why would I trade it for $50? Wouldnt you want $100 in return?
And lets say not too many competitors had a $100 chip,why would you give it away?without waiting to see who could bid for it?Maybe try to get even $120.
This is the essense of the Lee deal for me….it was simply stupid.Whether the chips are current ballplayers or future prospects(with low pricetags) it doesnt add up.
And… ..its a rare thing either here in Philly or anywhere that you get that $100 chip to play with.

Lets move on lee is gone. amazing isnt it a salary dump like this and people say forget it. The marlins salary dump but get value why cant we , a bag of donuts and we should forget, sounds like eagles talk just make the playoffs and hope we get lucky. The ownership in this town for a big market, has small minds, no matter what the phillies do its okay, season ticket holders should have told them you unload lee for nothing we leave. We need a infield prospect a middle reliever and got none of that in a trade to ” restock our system” restock my ass salary dump.

Dipsy gillies played in the california league, when they translated his number to clearwater he is a 270 hitter.. he wont beat out ground balls to short in doublea and above. plus we are loaded with outfield prospects, why no infielder where we have just one prospect galvis?????? salary dump. outfield propects , brown gose santana, d”myers , hudson, and more gillies we didnt need. and a bad hip sore arm pitcher like aumont is a risk for a top major league starter.

Dipsy – 2y/6m is about right. I think it’s a sound deal. I watched some clips of him pitching and he looks pretty good. I think he’ll also benefit from the league change at least until he’s be around the block once. Also pitching in the AL East isn’t a pinic. Yeah budget…just say the word and your suddenly a beacon of fiscal responsibility. Just friggin’ smurfy. I guess the budget for the Phillies is all about “context”.

I would’ve liked to see the Phils try to flip Saunders to the Jays if Oakland would take him instead of Taylor for Wallace. The problem with taking Saunders is the Phils already signed Glaud(sp?). Saunders could’ve been used in conjunction with Saunders to spell Ibanez, Werth and Vic because Ibanez needs a lot of rest and Vic and Werth get tired, fast.

Cmon Chuck. You know how I feel about the trade. I never busted on the prospects. My feeling is that in this instance, as in life, some things you just have to worry about LATER. I would have worried about what to do with the team after the big run in 2010. Remember too, that if things were not working out for the Phils by the trade deadline they could have traded Lee and gotten close to what they did from the Mariners. Look at it this way, and this is a rough analogy: You’re out on a Tuesday night and you have a big presentation or whatever at work on Wednesday morning. You meet the best looking girl ever and you’re having a great time. You got a sweet buzz going and she wants to go home with you. Do you say “I can’t, I gotta big presentation at work tomorrow?” No. You worry about the presentation in the fog of the massive hangover you have the next morning. The presentation may be terrible but you’ll forever have the memory of the big trophy buck you bagged the night before. And guess what else? When your boss asked you what happened you can tell him the truth and I’d bet he’d understand. Pictures would help.

I hear ya’…I totally get the fascination with having BOTH of them on the team….

When I first thought about it…after the trade was announced….I was as disappointed as anyone on here…I LOVED what Cliff Lee did for this team….this CITY….in a very short space of time..

Cliff Lee will forever be part of Phillies lore..no one will forget what the guy did and what he gave us…NO ONE.

But the more I understood what happened…and the more I thought about the OVERALL health of the team…and that includes BEYOND this year…the more I realized that this deal had to be done…(or at least some kind of deal)

Ok…maybe $9 Million over budget isn’t that big of a deal…except that if you go over that amount this year…it just opens the door to over next year…at a bigger amount…and year after year…the precedent will be set…

Next thing you know…tickets…nosebleeds…are totally unaffordable for most fans…and we start looking like the Yankees and Red Sox. Is THAT what you want??

Can someone PLEASE find out how much this guy costs? AMANDA! Where are these tweeting reporters when we really need them? I’d even take a Ken Rosenthal report right now. It would be dead wrong, of course, but it would be something.

Dipsy – As to Saunders, yeah that’s idea to flip him for either a top tier starter to replace Drabek or perhaps a top tier third basemen prospect or infielder or catcher. To me the trio of blah we got only has value, currently that is, as a package. Even in this package, we should have dropped a pitcher (who have the worst failure rates of any prospect esp at the 2nd tier) and gotten a 2nd tier catcher.

If you look at Gillies numbers, they’re great. The guy hit .341 for god’s sake. 44 SB and a .430 OBP. I mean, I don’t care what league you’re in, those are numbers. And Chuck, I love my analogy, too. Thanks. I think it is spot on! As a man, you’ve been there (I hope). Regret is a horrible thing to have to love with. Ladies, (Georgie, Philsgurl, Amanda) perhaps you have been there, too. In an inverted way, of course.

I was wondering when one of the woman on here was gonna say something about the analogy, Dipsy….and I’m not surprised it was Georgie….

And Georgie….I have to say I agree with you…but I also know Dipsy was kidding and messing around….as he is sooo good at doing.

____

So Dipsy…seriously….this sudden “fascination” with Gillies’ numbers…what are you sayin’, man…??

I mean….think about it…this COULD translate into us all forgetting about Cliff Lee, huh?? Not tryin to jump the gun…but…like I have been saying…if just ONE of these three prospects pans out….then the trade is successful

When I heard that Lee got traded for the prospects, I looked up their stats and saw Gillies’ #s. I know its hard to get excited about a guy that in high A ball but from everything I’ve read, the guy can hit, run, and is a gamer. He’s deaf, too…for what thats worth. I would love too see one of these guys pan out. Whether it be Gillies or one of the pitchers. If you are trying to get me to swing my position on the trade (which is fine), I can’t. At this point, when its all over but the cryin, all you can do put some in hope into what the Phils got back. The trade has been made and I am at peace with it. Until we get in the Series and we have no 3rd starter to pitch. The I’ll be pissed off all over again. You better watch the Braves’ starters, i’ll tell you that much. Jurrjens is a flat out animal.

As far as the third starter… this is the way I see it…Halladay is a given…Hamels is improved….and Happ is actually used as a starter this time in the series….something that probably SHOULD have happened this past year…but I understand why Cholly put him in the pen…to have that left-hander..

I just think Happ is a starter…and excels in that role..I look for BIG things from him this year..

Dipsy, no source, but the only chips really not on the table for the Angels were Saunders and Aybar(sp). I’m just thinking out loud because the Phillies never talked to any other team besides the MAriners.

If there was a better deal out there for Lee they would have made it. Hes not an IDIOT. Hes not going to intentionally make a worse deal for some reason. People just need to realize that the guy has no trade value until he brings his contract demands down.

Geoff, Rube didn’t talk to anyone else. From all the write-ups it’s clear it was Seattle or no one. Why not contact the Angels after the Mariners offerred Saunders, Aumont and Ramirez? Other than not keeping Lee in the first place that’s what bothersme the most. I’m sure the Angels didn’t want Lee going to the Mariners.

I agree Rube’s not an idiot, but he has demonstrated a lack of patience many, many times. Why not make the call to the Angels? Worst case they say no.

Geoff – Lets say that Ruben talked to everyone in the league and Seattle’s offer was the best. If I’m Ruben I say, “No, thanks” and hold on to Lee a while. There is something VERY screwy that we don’t know about this deal that made it go down the way it did. When Ruben writes his memoirs maybe we’ll find out. I think the million dollar question is “Why didn’t Ruben just hold on to Lee and trade him later?” There is no way that we would have gotten to April 1 without Ruben getting a much better offer from another team. Ruben is a good GM. This move was stupid.

But I think I know the answer. If you make the Halladay trade and then hold a Lee sweepstakes for the highest bidder, all of Philly goes nuts on Ruben during the whole process, complete with death threats. I think by giving the illusion that the Halladay was somehow contingent on the Lee deal, RAJ figures it would take most of the sting out of it from a P.R. perspective. He’s probably right. But is that a reason to take a lot less value for Lee that if he would have done it differently? Who knows. Maybe I’m belabouring the obvious here and if I am I apologize.

Over Paid Ibanez to lock him in early.
Two year deal on Moyer for fear he would go somewhere else.
3/18 for Polanco with 5-6 3b choices out there.
Halladay not going anywhere fast, Phils give up what Tpranto basically wanted last year.
1st offer for Lee, done deal.
2 year x deal for Baez with Park still on the market.
Castro 750K when noone else intersted.

I’m not a rocket scientist, and there are a lot of smart Phils fans on here so, why the hell didn’t we figure this out before? And Joe, to answer your question, if I’m RAJ and I am in this “mode” I speak of, I would probably make the deal he did, because its not horrifying, as opposed to going through the equivalent of the Bataan Death March that would have been the process of waiting for the “best” deal.

Chuck, I just don’t think the fans are that stupid. Also, it would only take an hour ot two to see if the Angels were interested in upgrading while preventing the Mariners from upgrading. Seems the Phillies just didn’t have “a good book” on the Angels prospects so they went with the “known”.

I agree with “not waiting” for the best deal. The Halladay signing could’ve waited 24 hours to scope the Angels, IMO. Who leaked it anyway? The Mariners? If they did, escellent move to make the Phillies pull the trigger quicker.

One thing I just thought of was maybe Rube feared contacting the Angels because they may have gotten back in touch with the Jays. I just think Angels had a need and prospects/mlb players superior to the MAriners.

Aumont seems like he could be a stud in the back end of the bullpen..I have high hopes as well.

And I’ve heard…but not sure what it’s based on…that Ramirez was actually necessary to be in the deal in order for it to be made..heard that on the radio the day after the trade was announced, but I forget who said it.

psujoe – doesn’t getting back to the WS series this year present the same possible stituation that I think you fear with Lee going to the yankees in so far as the Red Sox will have Lackey, Lester and Beckett. Granted CC, Lee, Burnett is might be more fearsome because of the lefties but, Beckett and Lackey (which everone you’d substitute for Burnett in the comparsion) are better than Burnett.

Offtopic, but the rumor is Beltre turned down a three year 24million dollar deal from the Phils which is right about what I wanted them to pay for him. If that’s the case then it makes the Polanco move make sense. If you take Beltre & Figgins out of the mix Polanco is the only one who helps improve the team.

Baez is a good signing, looks like the team is all but set. Seems like the Phils should have enough cash still to sign Eyre or another potential starter within the budget. I wonder if they could convince Wang to sign a cheap deal since he’s still hurt and hasn’t been getting much interest. Would be a nice gamble if the price is right.

I would like to see that PHils pursue Mike MacDougal to go with Baez. Both are groundball pitchers with closers experience. Both will be 33, which is a good age for a reliever because they are accustomed to the pressure of the position and know how to get prepared to pitch every day. WE NEED A GOOD, EXPERIENCED BULLPEN. We could add one of our minor league lefties to round things out.

We will already have at least 5 experienced bullpen guys – Lidge, Madson, Romero, Baez and Durbin…if we can re-sign Eyre, we only have room for one more guy (I would guess either Bastardo or Mathieson) – and that assumes that Moyer is the 5th starter. If you want to take a flyer on a reclamation project (like Sheets or Wang) to potentially upgrade the 5th spot in the rotation, then Moyer either has to be cut, put on the DL or go to the pen as a long-guy…

And if Moyer goes to the ‘pen, your entire bullpen is made up of vets over the age of 30…which is not exactly ideal. I would love for Bastardo or Mathieson to make the big club, but if they sign Eyre, that only happens if Moyer is in the rotation or released.

Seems like it is bad judgement to coax a pitcher to pitch despite the fact he would make only about $1.5 million. Eyre wants to retire. I seriously doubt that his heart is into pitching. Let him get a job in the “REAL” world. He’s made a ton of money compared to average folk being a mediocre pitcher in the majors. He should enjoy his family.

I disagree. I think Eyre wants to pitch. Why would a still effective LOOGY ever wanna retire from baseball, especially if he plays for the Phils. The Phils will give it up. Havoc – I do not believe that rumor about Beltre. We’ll see how much he signs for now. If he’s not careful he may fall prey to the “Abreu/Lohse Squeeze”.

Not too high but I was hoping they could get him for $4M total. That’s more than we paid Park last year (assuming he did not meet any incentives).
I would like to sign Bastista to a Minor League deal and Eyre to $1M deal. Give Herndon first shot at the last spot. Leave Kendrick and Bastardo as starters in the minors with Mathieson closing.

If healthy, Scott Eyre should, and will, get 1.5m from the Phils, Thats what he’s worth. Don…would you wanna retire if you were Scott Eyre? He’s got the greatest job in the world. And if he gets 3m from anyone, I will run naked up and down Cottman avenue.

The Phillies have a minor leauge deal out on the table for Eyre…I guess its safe to say that he wont be returning to the Phils in 2010. I like Sheets or Smoltz to add to the roster to play it safe.

As for Vic being traded…In all reality anything is possible. If we lose him, we lose a HUGE key figure on our team. I mean, it all depends on what we could get for him, and if it would benefit us than sure. But we would have to get alot in return, and a player of his caliber we should. Vic is like the Ichiro of the NL (IMO)

Chris – While I like Vic, I would harken you to look at Ichiro’s stats. Shane Victorino is not in the same universe at Ichiro. Before its all said and done, Ichiro will go down as the greatest leadoff hitter of all time, better than Ricky. Too bad he plays in nowheresville Seattle. If he played here, we would name a bridge after him. While Shane is a real good player, he would be the logical guy to go in a trade. Perhaps for a right handed line drive machine to put in the three hole?

I def aint saying he’s better than Ichiro…That just came out wrong! TOTALLY wrong lol. All Im saying is…IMO he reminds me of Ichiro from his batting style, speed, arm, etc….Ichiro def is a machine thats for sure. Noone in baseball could compare to him, but in the NL you have to admit that Vic would be the only one close.

Another retarded move by Ruben…the man is on fire this offseason….we are giving Baez a 5.25 million contract…for what exactly? Closing experience? It can’t be his above 4 ERA..or his negative win probability the last 3 years…..or maybe it’s his negative clutch rating the last 3 seasons?….No..hmm

I may be a little bit bias, but I think Ricky is better than Ichiro as a led off hitter. Maybe not as a pure hitter, but Henderson, stole more bases, was an on base machine, a scored a ton of runs. I am not positive but I think Ricky’s OBP was well above Ichiro’s. Ichiro is like a .370 and only over .400 once , and Henderson for his career was over .400 and was like .420 or above for four or five years. And had more power, I know that is not essential in a lead off guy, but it helps.
Not that it matters since this is Phillies Nation but I am a fan of Rickey so I wanted to put my two cents in

John have you seen what averge middle relief guys are getting this off season. This is a good price anything under 3 million a year is a good deal. Plus he played or Baltimore in one of the best division in the league I think it is a little different pitching against Washington, Florida, and the Muts compared to Boston NY Yankees, and Tampa Bay. Comparitivly he is pretty cheap. I live by wait and see, despite what people are saying on here. This FO office and scouting team has built a 3X NL East, 2X NL Championship. and 1 WFS to Philadelphia so I will cut them a little slack at their moves. And wait and see if they pan out

Gee your right John, I mean the ultimate in “retarded” moves “this offseason” was signing Doc Halladay. LOL. You do also realize this contract wasn’t 5.25 for 1 year, but for 2? You might want to look at alot of other contracts. 5.25 for one year I would balk at, but come on, do some research.

Lets not forget the other “retarted” moves of not re-signing Bruntlett (who signed with the Nationals to a MINOR league deal), and Stairs, who yes had a few NICE homers, but notice a few. I think he had 4 this past season. The bench had a nice BA of what .220, and it was only that high because of the addition of Francisco mid last season. But what would being a Phillies Phan be without complaining about something (me included). I mean for the first time in Phillies History we are back to back NL champs, including 1 WS and 3 NL East, and from what most analysts are saying favorites to win the NL East and NL again, and some are even saying a re-match of the WS with the Phillies winning again. I dont know that I agree and its not because the Phillies arent awesome. I think the 2010 Phillies team is better then ’08 and ’09, but it is just VERY hard to have sustained success these days.