Just a wild hunch, but I think he/she was referring to the thread immediately below this one.

So why not bump that thread?

Geez Sethh. Talk about much to do about nothing. I suggested to Cushy that he pose his question about the creation/enigma fit to MSG on the mizuno thread that he answers questions on. Cushy replied that he couldn't locate the thread so I bumped it for him to find it. It would have done no good to bump his thread since he undoubtedly could find his own thread. Shameless promotion?

I run in performance neutral shoes and have just worn out my third pair of the Sayonaras. I love this shoe; however, my last pair I purchased on July 18th and they are already toast. (By toast I mean worn down to a nice smooth rubber.)

True, but not surprising considering the source. Runner4Java, aka LongRun, is a perennial troll with many aliases.

I have no idea why you are following me from forum to forum, claiming what you are. Outside of having the absolute nerve to differ in opinion with you, and only once I believe, in the Opinion forum, I don't think I've had anything to say to you. Stalking people and lying about them are not good manners. It must be nice to assume the forum rules don't apply to you.

True, but not surprising considering the source. Runner4Java, aka LongRun, is a perennial troll with many aliases.

I have no idea why you are following me from forum to forum, claiming what you are. Outside of having the absolute nerve to differ in opinion with you, and only once I believe, in the Opinion forum, I don't think I've had anything to say to you. Stalking people and lying about them are not good manners. It must be nice to assume the forum rules don't apply to you.

I live close to Holabird Sports, so I tend to do most of my shoe buying there. I tried to get a pair of Wave Sayonoras (and wanted to try on a few other brands too). Anyway, of the 4 shoes I tried, only 1 was in a women's 10.5. They told me it was not even listed as a size for the Sayonara. Is this true? Or is it just an odd shoe size for women?

I recently bought a pair of Wave Inspire 10s. I've run about 50 miles in them but never had any issues with them until a 10 miler yesterday where the heel cup of the right shoe dug into the outside of my right ankle. Finished my run with a bruise that looks like this:

I'm really bummed. Up until yesterday the shoes have been dreamy and the left shoe still feels great, but I can't put the right shoe back without being jabbed by the heel cup. Have you seen this happen before? Any insights?

That's weird that it suddenly started happening. Maybe you tied the laces at the top hole tighter than usual? Inspire 7's did that to me, but versions since have been OK. Try lacing the top-most lace using the lower of the two eyelets - ie. closer to the ground, not closer to the front of the shoe. (hope that makes sense). That should allow a little more give around the ankle collar (at least it does for me). Otherwise, skip the top lacing hole completely.

Option 3 is try a thicker insole to lift your ankle clear of the collar.

I live close to Holabird Sports, so I tend to do most of my shoe buying there. I tried to get a pair of Wave Sayonoras (and wanted to try on a few other brands too). Anyway, of the 4 shoes I tried, only 1 was in a women's 10.5. They told me it was not even listed as a size for the Sayonara. Is this true? Or is it just an odd shoe size for women?

No it is not true. The women's Sayonara (and Sayonara 2) are both available in a women's 10.5.

I recently bought a pair of Wave Inspire 10s. I've run about 50 miles in them but never had any issues with them until a 10 miler yesterday where the heel cup of the right shoe dug into the outside of my right ankle. Finished my run with a bruise that looks like this:

I'm really bummed. Up until yesterday the shoes have been dreamy and the left shoe still feels great, but I can't put the right shoe back without being jabbed by the heel cup. Have you seen this happen before? Any insights?

No, I haven't seen this before. Obviously both shoes are the same so it's possible that it could be some other problem. I don't know, but both of our feet aren't always the exact same size (one is often bigger/smaller) and it's possible that could be some undetected swelling or something going on. Or, it could be the sock on that foot is wet and/or rubbing or ill fitting. Or you could have done something to that foot/ankle during the run that was only evident afterward. And it's certainly possible it could be the shoe, but again I don't know.

Well not quite...mell maybe more home, Brisbane was a horrible place to be, so moved back to Launceston, was down to do parkrun the other week... and ofcourse saw new shoes to buy... But I didn't, so my addiction must be getting better.

Well not quite...mell maybe more home, Brisbane was a horrible place to be, so moved back to Launceston, was down to do parkrun the other week... and ofcourse saw new shoes to buy... But I didn't, so my addiction must be getting better.

Brissie's not too horrible! A very pleasant 27 degrees today!

G'day! So you moved to Tassie? Lucky man. Hear it's a great place although I have never been. Still summer here. Might hit 100 today. Any fall marathons planned?

Which trail shoe would you recommend as an Ascend replacement - Kazan or Hayate?

I do not usually run trails per se; I primarily used my Ascends as a winter shoe for the snow, slush and ice. My regular road shoe was the Elixir (which the Ascend was based on), so I'm now transitioning to the Sayonara.

Looks like the Rider 18 is available for preorder on RRS and RW. Looks pretty good! Looks like pretty much the same midsole and outsole as the 17, but maybe a little different upper construction that might hold your foot a little better (looks a little more like the 15 or 16 upper). That was really my only objection to the WR17 was that my foot doesn't really lock down well, and the upper kind of develops a crease in one spot. Even that isn't too bad, but WR18 appears to be a promising update. Looking forward to trying it.

Which trail shoe would you recommend as an Ascend replacement - Kazan or Hayate?

I do not usually run trails per se; I primarily used my Ascends as a winter shoe for the snow, slush and ice. My regular road shoe was the Elixir (which the Ascend was based on), so I'm now transitioning to the Sayonara.

thanks and cheers from Toronto

The Kazan definitely. It's lighter than the Ascend was, but better traction and lighter too.

Looks like the Rider 18 is available for preorder on RRS and RW. Looks pretty good! Looks like pretty much the same midsole and outsole as the 17, but maybe a little different upper construction that might hold your foot a little better (looks a little more like the 15 or 16 upper). That was really my only objection to the WR17 was that my foot doesn't really lock down well, and the upper kind of develops a crease in one spot. Even that isn't too bad, but WR18 appears to be a promising update. Looking forward to trying it.

Which trail shoe would you recommend as an Ascend replacement - Kazan or Hayate?

I do not usually run trails per se; I primarily used my Ascends as a winter shoe for the snow, slush and ice. My regular road shoe was the Elixir (which the Ascend was based on), so I'm now transitioning to the Sayonara.

thanks and cheers from Toronto

The Kazan definitely. It's lighter than the Ascend was, but better traction and lighter too.

ok thanks, but isn't Hayate even lighter than the Kazan? I was under the impression that Kazan was more of a bona fide trail shoe while Hayate was more of a hybrid/performance shoe for trails and occasional road use. Is that not the case? What is the difference between the two?

Hi, would be interested in any insight you might have on the Wave Kazan Trail shoe. Just anticipating the Winter months ahead. Mostly will be used for relatively light running/hiking. Any information regarding wet surface grip would be valuable. Would be very interested in how roomy they are in the toe area.

Which trail shoe would you recommend as an Ascend replacement - Kazan or Hayate?

I do not usually run trails per se; I primarily used my Ascends as a winter shoe for the snow, slush and ice. My regular road shoe was the Elixir (which the Ascend was based on), so I'm now transitioning to the Sayonara.

thanks and cheers from Toronto

The Kazan definitely. It's lighter than the Ascend was, but better traction and lighter too.

ok thanks, but isn't Hayate even lighter than the Kazan? I was under the impression that Kazan was more of a bona fide trail shoe while Hayate was more of a hybrid/performance shoe for trails and occasional road use. Is that not the case? What is the difference between the two?

Yes, the Hayate is lighter by nearly an ounce (it weighs 8.8 oz vs 9.5 for the Kazan), but the Kazan is closer to what the Ascend was. The Kazan has same heel heights as Ascend (Hayate is lower). But both shoes are more geared for the trail than the Ascend was (better traction) which was more of an all-terrain shoe.

Hi, would be interested in any insight you might have on the Wave Kazan Trail shoe. Just anticipating the Winter months ahead. Mostly will be used for relatively light running/hiking. Any information regarding wet surface grip would be valuable. Would be very interested in how roomy they are in the toe area.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

The Kazan has very good traction, good cushioning and is relatively light for a trail shoe (many are heavy and bulky). To be honest, the shoe was intro'ed this summer so I don't have any feedback or personal experience how they do on wet surface in terms of gripping, but the outsole is designed for soft dirt trails. Nice shoe. Totally fine for light day hiking/running.

Wow, wish I could run as quickly as you replied. Thanks. I'll be getting a pair.

Originally Posted by shoeguy@mizuno:

Originally Posted by KeithA39:

Hi, would be interested in any insight you might have on the Wave Kazan Trail shoe. Just anticipating the Winter months ahead. Mostly will be used for relatively light running/hiking. Any information regarding wet surface grip would be valuable. Would be very interested in how roomy they are in the toe area.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

The Kazan has very good traction, good cushioning and is relatively light for a trail shoe (many are heavy and bulky). To be honest, the shoe was intro'ed this summer so I don't have any feedback or personal experience how they do on wet surface in terms of gripping, but the outsole is designed for soft dirt trails. Nice shoe. Totally fine for light day hiking/running.

I live close to Holabird Sports, so I tend to do most of my shoe buying there. I tried to get a pair of Wave Sayonoras (and wanted to try on a few other brands too). Anyway, of the 4 shoes I tried, only 1 was in a women's 10.5. They told me it was not even listed as a size for the Sayonara. Is this true? Or is it just an odd shoe size for women?

No it is not true. The women's Sayonara (and Sayonara 2) are both available in a women's 10.5.

Did some more searching on Holabird's site (by size) and found 'em. Yesterday was packet pick up for a 5 I am doing, it became the most expensive packet pick up ever. $150 later, I have a pair of Sayonaras and Wave Rider 17s. Took the Sayonaras out today. Love them. I can't give the shoes full credit because the weather was finally cooler, but they felt fast.

I live close to Holabird Sports, so I tend to do most of my shoe buying there. I tried to get a pair of Wave Sayonoras (and wanted to try on a few other brands too). Anyway, of the 4 shoes I tried, only 1 was in a women's 10.5. They told me it was not even listed as a size for the Sayonara. Is this true? Or is it just an odd shoe size for women?

No it is not true. The women's Sayonara (and Sayonara 2) are both available in a women's 10.5.

Did some more searching on Holabird's site (by size) and found 'em. Yesterday was packet pick up for a 5 I am doing, it became the most expensive packet pick up ever. $150 later, I have a pair of Sayonaras and Wave Rider 17s. Took the Sayonaras out today. Love them. I can't give the shoes full credit because the weather was finally cooler, but they felt fast.

I live close to Holabird Sports, so I tend to do most of my shoe buying there. I tried to get a pair of Wave Sayonoras (and wanted to try on a few other brands too). Anyway, of the 4 shoes I tried, only 1 was in a women's 10.5. They told me it was not even listed as a size for the Sayonara. Is this true? Or is it just an odd shoe size for women?

No it is not true. The women's Sayonara (and Sayonara 2) are both available in a women's 10.5.

Did some more searching on Holabird's site (by size) and found 'em. Yesterday was packet pick up for a 5 I am doing, it became the most expensive packet pick up ever. $150 later, I have a pair of Sayonaras and Wave Rider 17s. Took the Sayonaras out today. Love them. I can't give the shoes full credit because the weather was finally cooler, but they felt fast.

I live close to Holabird Sports, so I tend to do most of my shoe buying there. I tried to get a pair of Wave Sayonoras (and wanted to try on a few other brands too). Anyway, of the 4 shoes I tried, only 1 was in a women's 10.5. They told me it was not even listed as a size for the Sayonara. Is this true? Or is it just an odd shoe size for women?

No it is not true. The women's Sayonara (and Sayonara 2) are both available in a women's 10.5.

Did some more searching on Holabird's site (by size) and found 'em. Yesterday was packet pick up for a 5 I am doing, it became the most expensive packet pick up ever. $150 later, I have a pair of Sayonaras and Wave Rider 17s. Took the Sayonaras out today. Love them. I can't give the shoes full credit because the weather was finally cooler, but they felt fast.

Good to hear. Hope your race went well too.

Guess the shoes were fast. 2nd in AG.

It would be so easy to say it's the shoes (when we race well), but it's the engine, not the footwear which drives us. Nice job.

MSG - sorry if this has been asked, but what can you tell us about the Inspire 11, which I understand is making its debut in November? I tried on the Inspire 9 and even in the store they just didn't feel right. I have a pair of Inspire 10s that I like well enough but don't love. They aren't as comfortable for me as the Nexus (Bring! It! Back! Please!) and I'm not wild about the design, either, although obviously fit trumps everything.

MSG - sorry if this has been asked, but what can you tell us about the Inspire 11, which I understand is making its debut in November? I tried on the Inspire 9 and even in the store they just didn't feel right. I have a pair of Inspire 10s that I like well enough but don't love. They aren't as comfortable for me as the Nexus (Bring! It! Back! Please!) and I'm not wild about the design, either, although obviously fit trumps everything.

Just back from a run in a test pair I've been using for about a month. The Inspire has always been my go-to shoe as I love its lightweight supportive ride and it fits me perfectly. The midsole and outsole of the Inspire 11 is essentially unchanged. The major differences are in the new 3D upper which has more mesh, internal straps that really snug the midfoot so the entire shoe moves as one with the foot. There's a more modified toe that results in a very nice toe-off. The 11 weighs slightly more than the 10 did (although I don't notice any difference), but to me the big thing is still the upper which to me is simply more comfortable and moves better with my foot. I have approximately 175 miles on them and haven't noticed any wear yet. Do I love it? Absolutely. But I also loved the 8, 9 and 10. Great shoe. It will be available November 5th.