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An anonymous reader writes "Modern Linux desktops like Ubuntu's Unity and the GNOME Shell have placed a requirement on OpenGL 2.0+ support for handling their compositing window managers and desktop effects. Wayland's Weston also needs OpenGL ES 2.0 support. Now with modern Linux distributions like Ubuntu 12.10, rather than falling back to a 2D unaccelerated desktop if you don't have a sufficient GPU or graphics driver, users are being forced to run LLVMpipe as a CPU-based software rasterizer. LLVMpipe works fine if you are on a new PC with a fast x86-64 CPU, but the OpenGL-based Linux desktops are causing growing pains for ARM hardware, virtual machines, servers, multi-seat computers, and of course all older hardware. LLVMpipe is a Mesa Gallium3D driver that uses LLVM for run-time code generation as an attempt at accelerating graphics faster on the CPU. So much for Linux being good for old computers?"
The KMS based graphics stack is already effectively unusable on AGP systems (if you have SMP + AGP, there are race conditions somewhere leading to really hard crashes that appeared a couple of years ago and dozens of years old open bugs with no resolution other than "use PCI mode" which cuts bus bandwidth by 4 or 8 times, and still doesn't work with SMP), but for those with older PCIe/IGP systems you could always runs Window Maker, Sawfish, Enlightenment, Open Box, or one of many other window managers without a compositor. Of course then you lose compositing, and there aren't any usable external compositors for some reason. The flipside to this is that moving to OpenGL as the primary interface to the GPU means one fewer driver that has to be written, and will probably lead to an overall improved experience for those with supported hardware given the limited resources Free Software drivers authors have.

I don't care about the candy either and run fvwm on Ubuntu. But it's a hack, because more and more the graphical desktop is tied into things like mounting removable media and hardware administration GUIs. So, my wife and kids can't use USB sticks or check the printer queue any more. Sure, with enough effort I can hack around all that, but it amounts to maintaining a mini-distro.

What he is saying is KDE and Gnome and their associated stacks are starting to be designed in ways that are unusable if you can't support OpenGL 2. OpenGL 2 requires semi beefy CPU or hardware graphics acceleration. So the lowest end systems won't be able to run KDE or Gnome.

Why anyone would want to run a heavy GUI on very low end hardware wasn't explained.

How often do you need to read what's behind your console? And how often does what's behind your console interfere with reading what's on it? I can't imagine any circumstance where the former would happen more often than the latter.

I doubt that. I sadly am in the same boat as the above user. I administrate several applications who's configuration has to be done by a GUI (and a very poorly designed one at that). They have a batch automation tool for some features, if you want to go through their horribly inefficient configuration file language, but that makes the GUI look like a well written tool. Sadly, others at my organization are even worse off - they only have GUI tools for the Linux stuff they need to administrate.

KDE (Kwin) has one of the most advanced compositing window managers around. You can toggle compositive off with alt+shift+F12 and go back to a 2D desktop. If it detects that it cannot run with compositing due to hardware limitations, it will do that by default, or you can configure it not to if you just don't like that.

Why does Mesa even exist? It was supposed to be a software implementation of OpenGL, but it never had good enough performance for much of anything. Instead it became some sort of wrapper for OpenGL drivers. They said it could be used as a fallback for any features not implemented in the hardware drivers (but with terrible performance). And now with the LLVM pipe driver it's not even used for software rendering any more. Somehow it just keeps sticking around. What's up with that?

From what I understand, there hasn't been a single piece of graphics hardware ever that implemented every single OpenGL call in hardware. The point of Mesa was to provide reference code that driver implementers could build on, replacing calls that their hardware did support with the appropriate driver hooks, and leaving the rest as is, while providing a consistent ABI (at least per-distro) to applications that need to link against libGL. It serves the same purpose today as when it was first written.

New nVidia cards fully support OpenGL 4.2 either in hardware or in their drivers (if there's something they are missing, let me know I've not encountered it). Mesa is only up to 3.1. So what does Mesa get you, over a regular video card driver?

An alternative "external compositor" can be found here [github.com]. Was fairly trivial to prepare deb packages and it is on the wishlist in debian. Looking now, I see they just tagged the first version of it two days ago so maybe it's time to update the deb package and submit.

You can see most of the comments here neglect to tell about that kwin feature, apparently slashdot as a whole is biased against KDE as well. I can kind of understand because of things like akonadi and activities...., but the window manager is way too good to be ignored, and someone should show a minimum of praise for a work well done. (and remember kids, you can use kwin without all of kde4)

No reason to use what some distros (that apparently have gone off the deep end) offer as defaults. Stay with x.org, use a sane window manager like fvwm, xfce, etc. where the developers actually remember what the role of a window manager is, and this stupid discussion does not need to concern you at all.

I use Unity. When it works, I like it. It was always a bit flaky for me in 12.04, as was nVidia and Firefox. Now these problems are solved. However, update-manager crashes when I click the icon, and ubuntu-bug crashes when I try to submit a bug report. Maybe they just got tired of hearing from me.

Ubuntu isn't the only Linux here and Gnome isn't the only desktop available. Some people do forget this and then this sort of sensationalism arises.

There are plenty of other choices - both for Linux distros and desktops, many specifically targeted towards the old hardware. Furthermore, if you are running so old hw that has AGP or some ARM devices, you probably don't want to run a full-blown Gnome/Unity on that anyway.

Seriously though, no non-technical end users whom the desktop is being aimed at (why?) know what compositing is. Need to describe it in terms of what it looks like. You need to explain that its, um, well, you know those useless decorations that make the computer seem slower than it really is? Yeah its them. Oh you mean my computer will run faster? Cool!

One of the main reasons I switched to Linux was to avoid having to buy a bloody gaming computer just to render the desktop animations while working.

LXDE/XFCE all the way. Compositing was invented for people with more spare GPU cycles than they can reasonably use.

Amusingly, Canonical provides not just Ubuntu, with its snazzy composited-only desktop, but also Xubuntu with your beloved XFCE, and Lubuntu with the even slenderer LXDE. And you can get to any of them starting by debootstrapping ubuntu-minimal, which is how I generally perform a new install of Ubuntu. Or for that matter, you can build a GUIless server from that point, too, or you can just install matchbox and a couple of other packages which I've also done before, for the ultra-super-minimal install.

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Ubuntu, Mint etc users:
You can add another older window manager using apt-get. XFCE etc are lightweight. Just because your distro pimps one WM over another doesn't mean jack. Come to think of it, why didn't anyone mention Xubuntu or Lubuntu or one of the other Ubuntus? This post is so n00b.

Your WM is just one software package in your Linux distro. Your Linux distro is just one of many. Pretty much any Linux distro can be re-installed completely from source (and necessary binary blobs) to -BE- another

I have found compositing to be problematic in day to day use on LINUX and up until Ubuntu moved to the Unity platform I kept it disabled (right after the initial luster of Compiz Fusion wore off). This is one of several issues that drove me away from Ubuntu and I now prefer Debian Squeeze. Usability is my primary selector in a LINUX distro, whether I'm browsing the web, developing, editing an image, running a 3d Windows game in Wine, or rendering a video. If my 7 year old laptop becomes sluggish and unre

It's really weird to say this, but Windows 7 seems to be friendlier to older hardware now; I've certainly run into less trouble putting Windows 7 on older machines; that includes an old PIII Dell C610 I used to have, albeit without Aero support but with general 3D. I wonder how a modern Linux distro would have treated it?

The kids use an ancient Dell P4 with Nvidia 5200 AGP card and 2GB RAM which runs Win7 just fine, perfectly well for the kids schoolwork (incl MS Office) and simpler games (including Flash w

There's a simple solution - install Windows Server 2003/2008. It doesn't need fancy graphics card to operate. That is, if you are looking for server/virtual server OS. Otherwise you can just go with Windows XP or Windows 7.

Get real, the world runs on whatever the fuck it needs to run. That means Linux, Windows, BSD, HPUX, what-the-hell gets the job done (or, does approximately so, and makes the business-goons-who-make decisions happy).

While Unity 2D may have been dropped, Ubuntu Precise (which is as you probably know a LTS) offers the "Gnome Classic (no effects)" option, which uses Metacity and no Compiz (install gnome-session-fallback). There are some small differences from older "pure" Gnome 2 (and there are plenty of tutorials on the web describing how to close the gap) but I haven't found anything critical, overall it's close enough to the Gnome 2 experience.

Too many comments forget Kwin. Which kind of shows nobody really uses KDE4, apparently, because it's a killer feature nobody knows about: It doesn't require GL and can enable and disable it on the fly without losing anything you are doing at the time. Even with automated rules!

Because it's a "major" desktop that doesn't ask for GL, so I think it's relevant to mention here. Only two of the major players require GL, and that makes the article pretty much invalid.

The "live" enable/disable is incredibly handy too. I can be using compositing to manage a lot of codedev/image editing/music editing/reference windows and disable it when I am trying out the results of that code, automagically, so I get full unhindered FPS in whatever I am making without losing the advantages of compositing

Too many comments forget Kwin. Which kind of shows nobody really uses KDE4, apparently, because it's a killer feature nobody knows about: It doesn't require GL and can enable and disable it on the fly without losing anything you are doing at the time. Even with automated rules!

The result of this and other adjustments were that instead of gaining one additional backend for EGL we also got a new OpenGL 2/GLX backend and it turned into the default and OpenGL 1 into the legacy backend.

Now fast forward two years. In the meantime quite a lot has happened which I could not foresee when I started the OpenGL ES efforts. One happening

Obviously you've not been keeping up. Gnome's development path is dead....and Xfce? Seriously? Don't make me laugh. A window manager designed for people who don't actually do anything.

People aren't complaining about this with KDE because it works. It's only Gnome and Unity pushing this on people, but articles like this are par for the course when working out why the Linux desktop has utterly failed. OpenGL is a requirement for Gnome and Unity where they are collectively called the 'Linux desktop' and a G

But precisely its strong point is what invalidates TFA. I don't love KDE for failures like akonadi or nepomuk, but because it has the best mainstream window manager out of the niche alternatives like Ratpoison or Awesome. It's compliant with modern standards, has automatic window rules set from a nice, handy GUI, has per-window keybindings, and is very fast on mediocre hardware like mine. It allows to maintain complex layouts without effort and without being limited by a tiled system (although that ALSO exists in Kwin, if that's your thing!).If I need the compositing features I turn them on, if I need speed I turn compositing off, it's as simple as that, all your windows remain the same, you don't need to log out. You can even automate it with windows rules (3 clicks, literally). All your settings are kept, from theming to effects to thumbnailing or whatever.So, because of that, I think kwin is pretty much worth mentioning in this news story. Sorry if you don't like, but it IS relevant to this discussion.

There are occasional indications that there is not "much" effort put into desktop linux, this is one of them. I recently tried running Ubuntu 12.04 on an AMD64 x2 with an AGP NVIDIA 6800, it didn't work, much as suggested here. I had not known there would be such a problem, now I know. So it is either an older Linux (maybe with NVIDIA blob support), newer BSD without proper graphics driver support, or Windows. Now I would personally feel that that machine is not horribly out of date, it has SATA, 2 GB of me

NVIDIA 6800 is graphics acceleration but only up to OpenGL 1.5, this is about OpenGL 2. That is you have hardware acceleration but more aimed at KDE 3 or Gnome 2. The chip you mentioned is a 2005-7 desktop chip. Why wouldn't this system be horribly out of date?

I AM running Ubuntu 12.04 on an AGP Nvidia 6800 GT with an AMD 3400+ cpu - no problems (apart from it not being able to run anything using better shader model effects at anything more than slideshow frame rates - I'm looking at you, Braid). Gnome Shell, standard Nvidia drivers (not the free ones).

You'd be surprised how many people run older hardware. I don't give a damn about gaming; so all three desktops and one of the two laptops in my house are old 32-bit machines (Athlons, Pentium 4 3.06GHz HT, Celeron in the lappy). They run apps just as fast as when they were new state-of-the-art machines - it seems daft that it's the window management that's forcing me to look for leaner distros. I'm certainly not going to spend money upgrading hardware to have prettier window decorations and physics.

If you run older hardware, what's the big rush to upgrade to a dist offering shiny new desktop any way? Install Debian, stick a light WM on it, or stick with an older dist which the hardware is capable of running.

All Canonical needs to do is give a little more promotion to lubuntu, which provides you with a really simple and lightweight desktop that is immediately familiar and highly functional in much less memory than full Ubuntu. This is fine for anyone with antique hardware; it runs fine on my AMD GEODE systems, for example.

Yeah, lets not be too quick to jump on the "latest, greatest, fastest, loudest" bandwagon just yet. One of Linux's strengths has been to be able to breath life back into that old P5 gathering dust in the corner.

Optimizing for newer 3D hardware and mutil-core CPUs typically means making non-3D hardware and single-core computer's slower. The general rule for ANYTHING in life is keep up or get left behind. Enjoy your old computers all you want, but if you don't like the way opensource is moving, fork the project and do it yourself.

At least you have the option for leaner distros. That means there are enough like minded people to at least maintain code for you.

I can assure you that my nine year old (but basically eleven year old tech, I got it for a steal when they EOLed everything after the Athlon64 FX was released) AthlonMP is still alive and kicking. With two 2.13GHz processors, 4G of RAM, and a Radeon X1650 it wouldn't be too shabby. Except for the part where I have to keep CPU1 disabled to use OpenGL (initially, I blamed having a Radeon 9100 so I got the new one, no dice). My only option at this point is to drop back to something like Debian lenny, but then I can't run xbmc (really, xbmc + zsnes + mame + {supertuxkart, armagetron} + a few xbox controllers = really sweet HTPC... and the box is great as a fileserver and build server all in one). For power, the thing idles at around 120W, so it's not even that much worse than a modern AMD based system on the power bill (we've got that nukular power round these parts, so I'm still paying a dime a kwh and can feel 1/3 fewer pangs of guilt about burning coal). With the second CPU disabled, however, it's just an underpowered old machine instead of something competetive with a more modern low end desktop.

I gave up on debugging it (the lock up is so hard, even kgdb doesn't work... and trying to do the remote tracing thing also doesn't work because the last traces before the crash don't make it to the serial port). It's turned perfectly usable hardware into... well, I'm getting an FX-whatever rig next week. Probably better for the economy, not so great for my account balance.

An FX-8xxx system idles around 80-90... peak at over 200 (if all the benchmarks are to believed). And my number is at the socket according to a kill-a-watt, and my power supply is pretty inefficient... before I put the X1650 in, it was more like 95W (damned graphics card!).

"New PC with x86-64"
You missed a word there - fast. Is the Core 2 fast enough or do you need a i5 or an i7? Does it have to be an Intel processor or will a recent AMD work? I don't know, but I do see that the supposedly user friendly and entry Linux desktop distos assume that you bought your desktop or laptop in the last 6 months and I would guess most people looking to switch or try something new don't buy a new computer to do it on.

A big part of the appeal of Linux as a desktop OS has always been that it runs on aged hardware that one can get for free. For example, I have a Pentium IV here that I will give away in a heartbeat, which runs Ubuntu very nicely. It's nothing to write home about, but for a non-gamer it will cover every need they might have.

The massive compatibility list is a big deal. AGP support is still important. Even EISA and MCA are really important if you happen to have some sort of industrial control board you can't

Um, the original Core did indeed make it into at least some desktop machines - it happens to be sitting in the 2006 iMac which is my main work computer and that I'm writing on at this moment. It was/is an odd chip: 64 bit addressing but only 32 bit instructions. Fortunately, most of the software I use doesn't need frequent updating, since just about everything Mac has been compiled 64 bit only for the last 2-3 years. I've had some "interesting" experiences getting certain things to run.
This is probably so

I recently installed xubuntu on my portable after getting sick of the ubuntu desktop. I must say, I'm quite happy with the switch. It boots and runs very fast, and I think my battery life is a bit longer now too. The desktop is functional and traditional, "fancy features weirdo's" have not ruined the project yet.

I have several Atoms, including one that's 32-bit only, but I would define them as not mainstream too. The 32-bit Atoms were largely used in netbooks and embedded systems.

But they sold an absolute shitload of those 32 bit Atom netbooks, and they are a rock solid platform and typically were 10" or smaller which means more resistant to breakage due to smaller size (less lever arm in an impact, and less mass too) so many of them are still in use.

I know! How dare they take advantage of graphics hardware of newer systems! X11 primitives should be enough for everyone!

Ubuntu is fine if you are an absolute Linux beginner.

It's also great if you want to work with Linux and the software available to it, but don't quite want to spend as much time screwing around with the platform.

For the rest of us, frankly, this is just one more nail in its coffin, as far as I am concerned, Ubuntu is fast becoming the Mandrake of the 20xx.

Fortunately it's not.

there is always Slackware 14 and NetBSD 6.0, who both just came out and promise tons of (non-OpenGL) goodness.

Hey, look at that. Options for the technology-averse technologist. Can people stop bitching about the fact that the GUI subsystem is being modernized and go take advantage of all the old, inefficient, software-powered solutions that you prefer?

Is why I will never install Ubuntu again, and why this distribution is doomed to irrelevance. [...]

Don't misunderstand me: Ubuntu is fine if you are an absolute Linux beginner. For the rest of us, frankly, this is just one more nail in its coffin, as far as I am concerned, Ubuntu is fast becoming the Mandrake of the 20xx.

Ubuntu isn't just for "Linux beginners". It's for an audience that isn't able or doesn't want to spend time choosing, configuring and optimizing their operating system. These are also users who like an easy to use system that offers similar paradigms and visuals as other contemporary graphical interfaces, and will generally pay the price for that (e.g. not being able to use it comfortably on old hardware).

Your use of the term "Linux beginner" in this context only makes sense if you assume that Linux users w

I humbly disagree. I found happiness when I moved to Ubuntu (from Gentoo, but that's irrelevant)You see, the defaults might suck for power users, but it not only has all the debian goodness inside, it also has a really good amount of up-to-date software in PPAs, and it's favored by many developers who release closed-source-free-software. The 2D CAD suite I use only has binary Ubuntu packages, for example. (rest is w32/64 and mac).And hell, Steam will come to Ubuntu, more reason for me, a gamedev (in my free