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Yesterday you know by now NAS suburb of Pittsburgh student goes into kitchen knives and wounds 21 people. And I guess my question that I can't quite understand is how could somebody have not disarmed him earlier. -- that Mike Doran joins us right now executive director of safe havens international air company that specializes. In a school security not just here but around the world I believe come like. Yes that we worked in 24 countries. Most thank you for taking the time when this morning and you probably very busy. Tell me. I guess about the attack and and how somebody can go in with two kitchen knives and is not a very large get it all from what I'm saying. And -- 21 people before he's taken down by the principal who I believe tackled him. Sure thank you for. Actually this does happen -- times before we leave them and presentations. For the last bout in years we've been -- Attacks were to the 300 people have been killed and into the mass casualties school that was it weapons. Primarily in the People'sRepublic of China. We've had some on multiple victims stabbings in the US support to them in the schools setting. One development is -- -- purposeful. And as surprised as most people. How fast you can cut how many people with a with -- network -- I've personally experienced those attacks. It was a weapon models using this moment is that -- as a police also affect multiple. Box those different things. Com and -- it it can happen very quickly particularly if you have. People who are not trying to react and that's one of the problems we've got here in the US since we've been really emphasized the last five years. We -- way too focused on active shoot situations and schools. And our training has become so focused on what to do. Format -- situation what we signed when that when that occurs and we -- -- -- is not what we think this is. The result for example testing people become an effective at almost any type of crisis. So. We've been costing. Simple this a little bit -- of listeners yet because it's early here. I understand is the training is to run away -- and and get out as quickly you can name bullet because that's a -- a gun is a pretty big threat but. People are reacting like that -- and edged weapon when they shouldn't. Well actually no there. That the current training to run is very dangerous -- -- it is not rather than lease servers. The United States department of -- security video. They use in peace process -- fight. That video people that I've seen that video we test that was scenario based testing what -- -- police also. They failed very badly the research tells us an -- -- so when people run in large numbers in the building they get out slower. People jammed -- ways and so forcefully we have six hospitality from that and I see the fire and then whether it's fire fire on the night. When people run. And they don't get out as quickly and so win whoever was holed that aren't gonna have to see the specifics of the incidents of violence is correct in the opposite. It would not surprise us of when that -- almost pulled it more people flooded -- those. It actually may have made it easier for the aggressiveness that so many people quickly. Let me take a break you won't come back hoping at a couple more minutes to her. To talk about what you know people drive in the school right now with the kids and wondering -- what what exactly should they be doing then. And what perhaps in the schools seldom that's wrong. And could actually. Harm -- more than if they were duties on canals our guest Mike. Door and he's the executive director of safe havens international a company that specializes in school security all over the world and talk -- that standing outside Avaya multiple stabbings at a school in Marysville Pennsylvania. Outside of Pittsburgh taking calls the enemy at T 601878. Toll free 866889087. Right now six point one timely to traffic. Harold -- six point five Tommy Tucker with the flag you with us on this Thursday morning we're talking -- Michael to our. Executive director of safe havens international it's internationally recognized and a -- schools' safety and security. -- company and we're talking about the attack knife attack in suburban Pittsburgh yesterday and -- if you disjointed as Mike was saying earlier that sometimes the I think it's run hide and fight is at the order might. Well that sort. We disagree. On cnet's tech could be hurting students. And many people are more vulnerable. -- six school employees have been shot and killed thus far attempting to disarm. People with guns on school property many more have been wounded. That approach is not grounded -- resurgence in fact contrary to much recently have. We just finished a book called staying alive and access -- and so that lead analyst for fans that it was a couple weeks we had. Actually became so concerned with the -- sort of showing that approach we. Included chapter just on that what that people can envision your question before the break. Content oversimplified. We've got him free. Training videos based on that book on our web site. Does it teach you how to basically accesses about that would account for that to galvanize some of the camera. I'm building on fire tornado principles of the sign regardless of the type of attack and and so. Or incident and so one thing people can do -- just watch those videos that they're all based. Proven approach is not things that we think will work and that's what. Concerns us so -- for the world's largest school safety center we've done more assessment work in any organization world including the United States government. On school security assessment is up at 6000 K12 schools and point countries. And we see so much of this. Where people come up with ideas like and I -- we think it's a good idea but they don't test is not -- -- -- -- -- -- people start getting -- And we finally figured maybe that's not the best that is that we focus. On evidence based approach is to have been tested and evaluated. Him there. That you can use to survive and they'll also. Improve the climate and the school will -- connected to things like pattern matching the recognition being able spot this young man. Before you start attacking anybody because of the subtle differences in the entity did exhibit that day. Yes the spread of valuations been very effective in this country. When schools said the -- at the time that the students in the use of formal -- threat assessment pros who we can identify someone like this. Before that his chance to hurt anybody. Evidence based approaches to -- most schools in America that we know from our evaluations they still. Use would -- 1958 fire drills the principles of parliament in month. In 1958 of war it murdered nine besides students and staff and Catholic school -- about money has spilled. Say that again and 58. In 1960 the most lethal attack. For later killed 95 people capitals who won Chicago but burning down the building. The reason deaths occurred. None of the staff for an estimated five minutes were holding -- that's because the principal pulled it off every month. Accidentally conditioned them to wait for some mystical -- to stress reaction. And so we still have been useful today doing Harlem's does that include about resource to be an effective with the principles we wanted to moments we have. Through processes now where the principal goes the -- -- On the situation. And that they have to think and act and conditions of boring. What has secured with -- now call someone with a tornadoes aggressive dog. That conditions staff member to take appropriate action and then not sitting there trying to overwhelmed by. Something they haven't really considered so they're actually quite a few things it has been proved very successful. Most people forget that we stop a lot more of these acts and then a car. And most people don't realize that the homicide rate technical schools in the US's much slower now. That was 102030. Years ago and working internationally and I just got back from Nairobi Kenya. -- -- assess the when he compared to Canada the UK you know we actually have. A lot more going right in the Salinas by these attacks that we see. We you have to remember we have between fifty and sixty million students and school in the country of years of very large country. So by contrast you know China has set two to 300 children killed and seriously injured. In these types of attacks in recent years shootings and -- So you know. I'll try to get people see things in balance. You know our our our all of our leading content that individual schools all homicides in medical emergencies or accidents traffic fatalities. You know also we've we've wanna make sure that we keep things in balance because. Horrific events like yes it is definitely grabs our attention. And we can't let those type people -- school children. And from our parents and educators when he says. Find ways and I always make schools reasonably safe places. Deter prevent things like what happened yesterday with her hand them you know as well to be handled. While keeping a friendly place for kids to grow and -- that is -- again. Whose experience allows him very intensively that was attacked them as weapons in nineteen in my -- who also. A survival of these attacks some analysts flight. But I don't so much about the school today and concede. Mike we do we have to run and I appreciate your time and I certainly hope we get to talk to you in the book is. Staying alive how to access and survived deadly encounters and can you pre order a matter of when does it come out. Yes -- we actually have it for sale now I am. Or someone quite well again I think hurt people look at -- refugees WWW. Got one wrong word safe havens international. Auto world WWW. -- And we've got about an hour's worth the short training videos. That will help people learn to survive almost in the cut thing that you cancer. -- we really do appreciate your time and talk to again thank you sir. -- -- -- --