I guess that explains why the greatest bodybuilder in history (Arnold) is white, why one of the most dominant bodybuilders in the modern era (Yates) is white, why the runner up at the last several Olympias (Cutler) is white, why two of the biggest competitive bodybuilders in the world (Gunter and Ruhl) are white.

When you are using steroids it's true that your natural testosterone goes down..However any intelligent steroid user knows that they should go on a "Post cycle Therapy" at the end of their cycle to bring their natural testosterone levels back up to normal so as they keep as much mass as possible...Usually they only loose about 15% of what they have gained...Three steps foward one step back basically.

Secondly...When your natural testosterone goes down you'll loose muscle regardless. Natural Bodybuilders natural testosterone doesn't stay high any longer than a bodybuilder who uses steroids. When you get old..You stop producing as much testosterone..When you stop producing as much Test you loose muscle..That will happen no matter what. No studies show steroid users to be unable to produce testosterone later in life..As a matter of a fact Arnold in his late 50's hasn't used steroids for years yet is much more muscular than your average 56 year old.

Thirdly....If you wanted you could continue using Steroids as you grow older and get into your 50's and 60's. Plenty of people do this...

If having normal test levels was not enough to make you bigger then why the hell would bringing them back to normal after a cycle help you keep the gains you get from steroids. WTF!!!! You self appointed drug gurus need to do us all a favor and either commit suicide or start taking Zoloft.

...whaddya think? I'd say you have me on upper body (bench, curls etc), reckon I could take you in the lower body (squats, deadlifts). Though I reckon we're both on a par with Reeves at least strength wise.

I'll see if I can compress avi files on my computer to post some lifts.

If having normal test levels was not enough to make you bigger then why the hell would bringing them back to normal after a cycle help you keep the gains you get from steroids. WTF!!!! You self appointed drug gurus need to do us all a favor and either commit suicide or start taking Zoloft.

Because muscle goes down very slowly on normal test levels. If you gain 30lbs of muscle on a cycle with test levels 5 times normal..If you go back down to normal you still have the solid muscle you have gained and it doesn't just vanish into nowhere in a few months.

Because muscle goes down very slowly on normal test levels. If you gain 30lbs of muscle on a cycle with test levels 5 times normal..If you go back down to normal you still have the solid muscle you have gained and it doesn't just vanish into nowhere in a few months.

Fraid so...Right after a Steroid cycle your natural test levels are near zero. That's why you loose so much muscle mass right after a cycle if you don't go on PCT. However if you do go on PCT and get your normal test levels back up soon you won't loose much weight after the cycle and you will gradually loose weight over the years if you don't ever cycle again. Keeping your natural test levels high isn't difficult though after a cycle.

Fraid so...Right after a Steroid cycle your natural test levels are near zero. That's why you loose so much muscle mass right after a cycle if you don't go on PCT. However if you do go on PCT and get your normal test levels back up soon you won't loose much weight after the cycle and you will gradually loose weight over the years if you don't ever cycle again. Keeping your natural test levels high isn't difficult though after a cycle.

You're making claims which are not baked by any proof therefore they are nothing more than opinion. Unless you can prove your opinion then it is nothing more than that. Although I welcome some kind of concrete proof.

You're making claims which are not baked by any proof therefore they are nothing more than opinion. Unless you can prove your opinion then it is nothing more than that. Although I welcome some kind of concrete proof.

Fraid so...Right after a Steroid cycle your natural test levels are near zero. That's why you loose so much muscle mass right after a cycle if you don't go on PCT.

This please.

What happens during a steroid cycle is your Testosterone levels increase. Your body wanting to maintain homeostasis then stops producing it's own testosterone so as your test level's don't get to high. The more steroids you use the less testosterone your own body produces. Once you stop using your body needs a few months to get back to normal test levels naturally. This is why testicular atrophy occurs..Your testicles produce testosterone. When they stop producing it they shrink. Get it? Inorder to restore hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis you go on a "post cycle therapy" that increases serum testosterone and blocks estrogen receptors.

Quote

Furthermore, to combat the natural testosterone suppression and to restore proper HPTA function, what is known as 'post cycle therapy' (PCT) is self prescribed. PCT takes place after the course of anabolic steroids. It typically consists of a combination of the following drugs depending on which protocol is used:

A SERM such as clomiphene citrate and/or tamoxifen citrate (this is the primary PCT drug). An aromatase inhibitor such as anastrozole. Human chorionic gonadotropin, HCG (this has become less common as it is now more often used throughout the cycle rather than after).

Captain Apollo are you saying those bodybuilders who have been using drugs non stop for over 20 years, will have the same test levels as those who went the natural way, if they stop their cycle??

Flex Wheeler wrote not to long ago that he has to use test therapy now for the rest of his life due to the amounts that he was taking when he was competing...his own system never kicked back in...I'm sure there are a lot more guys out there in the same boat.

He claims 25, but after a couple of background checks on his REAL name ( he states it's Jonathan Apollo)absolutely nothing came up in CA or US. He says he lives in Blythe CA and only moved there to near Mexico. He uses quotes and good scientific facts to back up most of what he says, but boy can't back up his sh*t when I offered to come to his town and go a few rounds with him. "Afraid" I might press charges on him when he "whoops" my ass. Still I waited for a reply and got none. By the way "Johnny" it's spelled lose not loose. The latter is an adjective smart ass.

Actually, lots of people were opposed to steroid use in the old days, and for the same reasons people oppose them now. You're fooling yourself if you think pumping artificial hormones into your body accomplishes anything of value in the long run. I have far more respect for someone who builds REAL muscle through HARD TRAINING than some steroid clown who trains a few months out of the year. Steroids have removed the athleticism from bodybuilding and turned it into a pharmaceutical freak show. Nobody cares about training anymore. It's all about DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS.

yes but like i've stated before "all natty's" are running to GNC looking for the next big thing to make their muscles grow...And most don't care what it is as long as its "not illegal"...They have bought right into the propaganda against "steroids"...I remember back in the 80s when one could buy GHB right in GNC..and GBL up to the late 90s...A few guys in my gym who wouldn't take hormones(supposedly) were raving about what GHB were doing for them...Fast forward to the 21st century and mention GHB to almost anyone even on here and most will precieve you as a druggy or say you use a date rape drug...hell you can get more time from this drug then almost any other today...my point is that ghb got a bad rap because to the raves of the 90s and what the government put out their in the form of propaganda...Steroids aren't the main thing that is making what you call the "freaks"...I could say that "legal" inslin plays a role just as great if not greater in muscle building...The difference of todays bodybuilder and yesterdays is HGH and Inslin and igf-synthol-among other things(hardly illegal substances)with better nutrition and more information being available...Its just evolution...

Actually, lots of people were opposed to steroid use in the old days, and for the same reasons people oppose them now. You're fooling yourself if you think pumping artificial hormones into your body accomplishes anything of value in the long run. I have far more respect for someone who builds REAL muscle through HARD TRAINING than some steroid clown who trains a few months out of the year. Steroids have removed the athleticism from bodybuilding and turned it into a pharmaceutical freak show. Nobody cares about training anymore. It's all about DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS.

hormones are not only "FINISHING TOUCH". we train natural up to 190-200 pounds@ 8-10% anything over that is hormones. now! before BOB chic is coming and getting his fat ass into what im saying....it is 5'9" 5'10" 190-200 8-10%!! every inch = 7 pounds! so for a 6'1 it will be 220lb @ 8-10% before he turns to hormones.

NOW there is no need to argue with me! i know everything when it comes to bodybuilding and the people involved in it from the local gym rat to the beggining pro to the old timer apperson kinda pro. we sell and import the products. we, unlike few claims i see around here, really make 400-500k/ year.

the real "in the know" will never try to argue with me. eventhough they dont always know who i am they simply wont. the ones who try to argue with me are doing it out of boredom and lack of knowledge.

hormones are not only "FINISHING TOUCH". we train natural up to 190-200 pounds@ 8-10% anything over that is hormones. now! before BOB chic is coming and getting his fat ass into what im saying....it is 5'9" 5'10" 190-200 8-10%!! every inch = 7 pounds! so for a 6'1 it will be 220lb @ 8-10% before he turns to hormones.

NOW there is no need to argue with me! i know everything when it comes to bodybuilding and the people involved in it from the local gym rat to the beggining pro to the old timer apperson kinda pro. we sell and import the products. we, unlike few claims i see around here, really make 400-500k/ year.

the real "in the know" will never try to argue with me. eventhough they dont always know who i am they simply wont. the ones who try to argue with me are doing it out of boredom and lack of knowledge.

I'm currently 6'4" 235 going on 260 naturally. All I take is protein and vitamins. How about you sponsering me to become mr. Olympia?

hormones are not only "FINISHING TOUCH". we train natural up to 190-200 pounds@ 8-10% anything over that is hormones. now! before BOB chic is coming and getting his fat ass into what im saying....it is 5'9" 5'10" 190-200 8-10%!! every inch = 7 pounds! so for a 6'1 it will be 220lb @ 8-10% before he turns to hormones.

NOW there is no need to argue with me! i know everything when it comes to bodybuilding and the people involved in it from the local gym rat to the beggining pro to the old timer apperson kinda pro. we sell and import the products. we, unlike few claims i see around here, really make 400-500k/ year.

the real "in the know" will never try to argue with me. eventhough they dont always know who i am they simply wont. the ones who try to argue with me are doing it out of boredom and lack of knowledge.

Tom Prince was 230 pounds at 5-7 before taking an ounce of gear. Just because your genetics limit you to 220 pounds, doesn't mean the same for everyone else. Read Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, steroids are a finishing touch, they do not make a physique.

Anyone who says Reeves wasn't Natural is a stupid hater. This guy competed between 1946 and 1950. Gimme a break. Also Reeves stopped competing at 24 years old! If he had continued he'd have been untouchable.

Tom Prince was 230 pounds at 5-7 before taking an ounce of gear. Just because your genetics limit you to 220 pounds, doesn't mean the same for everyone else. Read Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, steroids are a finishing touch, they do not make a physique.

thats pretty funny considering he wouldn't step on stage until he competed at 250(so he says) and when he did compete at 250, he was juiced to the gills...Just a 20 pound weight gain he had juiced to the gills..That must be some kind of record...