On 3/05/2012 kuu wrote:>On 3/05/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:>>Shazza and Daryl bushwalkers who drive a sandman find chalk and bolts>ugly.>>The concept of rockclimbing is beyond them. They want wilderness a stroll>>from the Barina. Geuss where most sport crags are...... There are a lot>>of Shazzas and Daryls out there>>Dave, I think I know people like the Shazza and Daryl you refer to. I>wrote about them in 2002.>Yeh, even way back then the problem was apparent. You can find my monologue>at:>http://www.sydneyrockies.org.au/pdfs/at_the_interface.pdf>>If you're interested, take a look soon, before it disappears from the>interweb.>

That is exactly my point, and there are more of them than us. Good bit of writing by the way.

On 4/05/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:>On 3/05/2012 kuu wrote:>>Dave, I think I know people like the Shazza and Daryl you refer to. I>>wrote about them in 2002.>>Yeh, even way back then the problem was apparent. You can find my monologue>>at:>>http://www.sydneyrockies.org.au/pdfs/at_the_interface.pdf>>>>If you're interested, take a look soon, before it disappears from the>>interweb.>>>>That is exactly my point, and there are more of them than us. Good bit>of writing by the way.

On whenever http://bmtopos.com wrote:>Bolting Information>>We strongly encourage climbers at all levels to have a go at >bolting new routes, it goes a long way towards keeping our >sport interesting and fresh!

This really doesn't seem like good advice, unless your aim is to have badly located bolts on worthless piles of choss, or even worse on existing trad routes, as is/was the case at Point Perp and Buffalo recently.

On 7/02/2013 uwhp510 wrote:>A bit off topic but anyways...>>On whenever http://bmtopos.com wrote:>>Bolting Information>>>>We strongly encourage climbers at all levels to have a go at >>bolting new routes, it goes a long way towards keeping our >>sport interesting and fresh!>>This really doesn't seem like good advice, unless your aim is to have>badly located bolts on worthless piles of choss, or even worse on existing>trad routes, as is/was the case at Point Perp and Buffalo recently. >>If anything, the above should be accompanied by a de-bolting guide.

I totally agree and feel that encouraging climbers to bolt new routes is ridiculous. To say that this will keep the sport interesting and fresh is bollocks. There are zillions of fantastic climbs in Australia and around the world already. There is already many lifetimes of brilliant climbing to be had. If you want to contribute to climbing then support Cliffcare and working bees that work towards keeping the climbing areas we already have open and accessible. If you really want to place bolts then consider re-equipping some old routes which have deteriorating bolts (do your homework first regarding the significance of the climb to others and learn how to remove old bolts without leaving a mess).

It is one thing to put up crappy new routes without bolts, but to bolt crappy new routes that detract from an area and/or neighbouring climbs is one of the worst crimes you can commit in my opinion.

Simey, while I agree with you in supporting cliffcare, track rebuilding and replacing old fixed gear as a way of giving back to the community, I cant understand your sentement about not encouraging others to go and establish new routes. With that sort of mentality we would have none of the fabulous routes and climbing that we have today, Taipan, Van Deimens, Muline, the Gallery, Nowra and much of the Bluies would be empty and we would all still be bumbling around on grade 5 choss piles at the pines in Whillans harnesses. Oh wait some people still are! Not saying go bolt crazy, all for mixed and trad routes, but as usual it seems it ok for one generation to go out and establish routes and yet the other better stay at home.

How about we guide them to do it the correct way straight up, so they dont have to learn by making the mistakes our generation did at the expense of the rock and we dont have to go replace it all again in 5 years.

On 19/02/2013 mattbrooks wrote:>Simey, while I agree with you in supporting cliffcare, track rebuilding
[snip]>we>would all still be bumbling around on grade 5 choss piles at the pines>in Whillans harnesses. Oh wait some people still are!