Cataclysm: Mount Hyjal and Vashj'ir Level Changes

In the next beta build it seems Blizzard is changing the minimum level requirement for entering both and . The quests which allow entrance into the two new zones will be available at level 80, not level 78 as it was previously set at. You will also need to be level 80 to enter or

Along with this change mob health is getting double for all 80+ Cataclysm creatures. So a mob that had 16,400 HP now has 31,000 HP!

So now that you've heard these changes, how does the community feel about them?

In the next beta build the minimum level for entering and questing in Mount Hyjal and Vashj’ir will change from level 78 to level 80. All associated creature will have their levels increased to match the new flow.

Additionally, after careful review and consideration we've decided to increase the hit point values of level 80+ Cataclysm creatures. The new hit point values are roughly double their previous values.

Level 80 (OLD) 16400

Level 80 (NEW) 31000

Players will also now need to be level 80 in order to use the Dungeon Finder System for Throne of Tides and Blackrock Caverns.

Комментарии

Комментарий от HollowOwl

Everything is going back to Vanilla.. <3 I love it.I can't wait for Cata. :)

Комментарий от Arathian

on 2010-07-22T16:37:25-05:00

I wonder why they decided to do that. Maybe they feel that wasting 1-2 zones each xpack (eg shadowmoon and netherstorm) because you go to 58/68 isn't efficient?

Комментарий от DoomDR

on 2010-07-22T16:45:21-05:00

Yay?

People have to level through Northrend to the full 80 now.

Good thing all my alts are 80 :P

Комментарий от Spleener

on 2010-07-22T16:46:13-05:00

Given that they're buffing all the mobs in those zones it seems like a major goal here is to narrow out the range of power they have to tune those zones for- now that the minimum is a fresh 80 instead of a fresh 78 they can make things more challenging for the people who are going to walk into those places in ICC gear.

Комментарий от Narshe

on 2010-07-22T16:51:20-05:00

Well, with them changing the way exp will work in levels 80 to 85 (by that i mean it taking as long as 70 to 80 but half the amount of actual levels) I wonder if there would be an issue with a level 78 getting too much exp from questing in Hyjal or Vash. Id imagine there only being 5 new zones having something to do with it too? I dont think they really wanted people leveling in both Howling Fjord and Borean Tundra back when Wotlk came out. But when you went to Northrend at 78 you had to.

Комментарий от ArgentSun

on 2010-07-22T16:51:56-05:00

I wonder why they decided to do that. Maybe they feel that wasting 1-2 zones each xpack (eg shadowmoon and netherstorm) because you go to 58/68 isn't efficient?

You wonder why? Because they thought it was too easy for my tank to fight 83s with 70k health. Apparently having some easy starting mobs is a no-no - every step on the way from 80 to 85 needs to feel like a struggle for every tank.

Not only that, but I died in Deepholm. Legitimately pulled 6 mobs and they legitimately killed me - my Judgement (of Light) couldn't keep me up. I died. I am a protection paladin. We don't die.

Don't mind me. I am just QQing.

Комментарий от lyph3

on 2010-07-22T16:58:27-05:00

Not only that, but I died in Deepholm. Legitimately pulled 6 mobs and they legitimately killed me - my Judgement (of Light) couldn't keep me up. I died. I am a protection paladin. We don't die.

Don't mind me. I am just QQing.

That's what Blizzard's been saying about Cataclysm as long as I can remember. "If you try to AOE tank, you will die."

Комментарий от Monday

on 2010-07-22T16:58:40-05:00

I wonder why they decided to do that. Maybe they feel that wasting 1-2 zones each xpack (eg shadowmoon and netherstorm) because you go to 58/68 isn't efficient?

Lore as well. Going to Northrend to fight the Lich King and then chickening out in Icecrown (the accumulation of the whole war effort) is just kinda dumb imo.

Комментарий от Radruler

on 2010-07-22T17:00:20-05:00

Finally, they make a change they've needed to for a long time. Maybe we will go back a bit to the days where 5mans took all day and things were, you know, difficult? This alone isn't going to be a massive change but it indicates the direction the devs are looking to take, which is good to say the least.

It's about time, too, we've been asking for more difficulty on mobs (way too easy to kill) since week2 alpha.

Комментарий от MischievousLoki

on 2010-07-22T17:02:23-05:00

Yay?

People have to level through Northrend to the full 80 now.

Good thing all my alts are 80 :P

Considering I usually hit 80 in northrend after 3-4 zones, we're still going to be skipping a lot of wrath zones on our way to 85.

Lore as well. Going to Northrend to fight the Lich King and then chickening out in Icecrown (the accumulation of the whole war effort) is just kinda dumb imo.

There's always the 'yay we killed the lich king' monument in dalaran. Instance/quest functionality has always made lore/rp screwy if you try to tie it too closely to actual gameplay.

Комментарий от scr00chy

on 2010-07-22T17:06:05-05:00

I think this was a reasonable decision. Even today I can easily skip two-three entire zones in Northrend when leveling an alt thanks to the heirloom bonus. Also, we can expect a nerf to the amount of XP required for each level in the 70-80 section after Cataclysm hits which will make leveling through Northrend even faster. Forcing the players to stay in Northrend until 80 won't necessarily mean that they will be "stuck" there longer, just that the Storm Peaks and Icecrown won't be skipped. Which is a good thing.

Комментарий от BiggieSmlls

on 2010-07-22T17:06:14-05:00

This looks good at face value, but it seems odd to me. It's appropriate for the level 80s that are itching to play Cataclysm, but people leveling through Northrend will experience a MASSIVE gap in difficulty when they go to the Cataclysm zones, because one doesn't have raiding epics or whatever.

I enjoy where the dungeons are going, they're basically like the previous dungeons but they teach the players raid mechanics instead of tanking and spanking bosses with a simple "attack that thing and this thing" strategy. I would advocate statistical nerfs to everything, but make it so that one would be more familiar with mechanics like get out of the fire.

IE A mob that kills the engaged player with a casted spell if the player stays in front of the mob, or a mob that debuffs the player and the player must grab something off the mob to remove the debuff, like a robot electricuting the player and the player having to take out its battery to remove the debuff, all specified in the quest text.

I don't think HP should be the main concentration of raiding, dungeoneering or even questing if difficulty is desired. Hitting hard does not solve it equally for all classes. Implementing mob specific mechanics teaches the player what one does when one raids, so one can be prepared.

Комментарий от Abcat

on 2010-07-22T17:09:48-05:00

I am not surprised. I keep reading about damage buffs and new abilities that characters will have. The mobs have to have a hit point increase or people will just blow though them.

Комментарий от Pwntiff

on 2010-07-22T17:22:40-05:00

This looks good at face value, but it seems odd to me. It's appropriate for the level 80s that are itching to play Cataclysm, but people leveling through Northrend will experience a MASSIVE gap in difficulty when they go to the Cataclysm zones, because one doesn't have raiding epics or whatever.

I enjoy where the dungeons are going, they're basically like the previous dungeons but they teach the players raid mechanics instead of tanking and spanking bosses with a simple "attack that thing and this thing" strategy. I would advocate statistical nerfs to everything, but make it so that one would be more familiar with mechanics like get out of the fire.

IE A mob that kills the engaged player with a casted spell if the player stays in front of the mob, or a mob that debuffs the player and the player must grab something off the mob to remove the debuff, like a robot electricuting the player and the player having to take out its battery to remove the debuff, all specified in the quest text.

I don't think HP should be the main concentration of raiding, dungeoneering or even questing if difficulty is desired. Hitting hard does not solve it equally for all classes. Implementing mob specific mechanics teaches the player what one does when one raids, so one can be prepared.

I don't think it will be all that massive. It will probably be similar to Hellfire with an intro chain or two that are rofl-stomp easy to give you new gear, then quests that are actually appropriately challenging.

I don't think they should do too much "Raiding 101" before raiding. Transforming dungeons into requiring at least a modicum of skill to avoid abilities is one thing, but you can't translate that into the solo world because the mob you are killing will always be focused on you.

Комментарий от whatisboom

on 2010-07-22T17:39:12-05:00

I agree, dungeons should be shifted more towards "how to raid" and solo should just be about learning your rotations and things, but mobs need to be alive long enough for you to figure such rotations out.

Комментарий от sublime89

on 2010-07-22T18:36:15-05:00

FYI, the Cataclysm FAQ's, specifically the one concerning leveling from 78 to 80 in the new zones, no longer reflects this current info :)

Комментарий от ArthNegri

on 2010-07-22T18:38:23-05:00

Well, well...

Комментарий от DoomDR

on 2010-07-22T18:40:07-05:00

Finally, they make a change they've needed to for a long time. Maybe we will go back a bit to the days where 5mans took all day and things were, you know, difficult? This alone isn't going to be a massive change but it indicates the direction the devs are looking to take, which is good to say the least.

It's about time, too, we've been asking for more difficulty on mobs (way too easy to kill) since week2 alpha.

I'm all for more difficulty....but longer dungeons? I don't want to spend more than an hour and a half on dungeons personally. Perhaps I've gotten used to the Wotlk speed runs, but you can have difficulty and not have to spend 2 hours on a single dungeon.

Комментарий от reubenhelms

on 2010-07-22T18:41:39-05:00

The HP increase is awesome. It'll be closer to that feeling when we first went through the Dark Portal, and the orcs were actually a force to be reckoned with (at least at 60 until the first few upgrades came through).

With only 5 extra levels being added to the expansion, each different in level ought to feel distinct, and level 80 players should give pause and thought before taking on a pack of level 82 mobs.

This will also give newly minted level 78-80 toons a reason to collect a few quested greens in Ice Crown before moving on to the Cataclysm intro zones.

Комментарий от Thror

on 2010-07-23T08:26:48-05:00

You wonder why? Because they thought it was too easy for my tank to fight 83s with 70k health. Apparently having some easy starting mobs is a no-no - every step on the way from 80 to 85 needs to feel like a struggle for every tank.

Not only that, but I died in Deepholm. Legitimately pulled 6 mobs and they legitimately killed me - my Judgement (of Light) couldn't keep me up. I died. I am a protection paladin. We don't die.

Don't mind me. I am just QQing.

I did not know it was possible, but your post has just made me look forward to Cataclysm even more, ArgentSun. Monsters that can kill me outside of an instance? Intriguing!