Techincally this is true. Guns *are* safe when empty. But alas, a gun is never empty.

This isn't true, unless you have a break action, or a bolt that can be removed there is no way to check the barrel for obstruction without pointing it at your head(eye). You have to prove that the firearm is empty and safe before doing so.

Muta:I bet he'd have described himself as a 'responsible gun owner' 5 minutes before shooting himself in the head. Really, he's more of a 'typical gun owner'.

There's no way anyone that would even consider doing what's described in TFA has so much as a half-hour of range time or a hunting license. So, no. People that would even claim to be responsible usually have a reason for owning guns that requires some level of basic competence to execute.

One of the reasons that you drill so much when training with guns is that you will occasionally do something stupid, same as with an automobile, and sometimes people do shoot themselves just from not paying attention even though they're competent, just like normally competent people sometimes stop paying attention to the road for a second and ram their car into someone at combined 100+ mph over a median. This... this is not one of those times.

// Also, gun safety has a lot of redundancies. The reason gun accidents are usually "someone was shot" and not "someone was killed" is that even if you stupidly put your finger on the trigger, you have to also stupidly not have the safety on, stupidly have a round chambered, and have it pointed in a fairly specific direction to actually kill someone. The chances of screwing up on all of that at once is pretty low, so accidental discharge is usually just scary and sometimes injures people, but is rarely if ever lethal. When it is lethal it's generally not "accidental" in any way, it's usually 100% your damned fault and manslaughter at minimum.

Not trying to doubt her claim of suicide-by-stupid that her beloved boyfriend put three separate guns to his head and pulled the trigger each time during a perfectly normal gun safety lesson of responsible gun ownership whilst drinking themselves blind with three children in the house, but perhaps cops should check her hands for gunshot residue.

Usually this doesn't get as many bites, but it's doing quite well in this thread. Kudos!

Egoy3k:This isn't true, unless you have a break action, or a bolt that can be removed there is no way to check the barrel for obstruction without pointing it at your head(eye). You have to prove that the firearm is empty and safe before doing so.

Or you can shine a light down the muzzle while looking into the breech end to see if the light shines through.

Or if you really must peer into the muzzle, you could use a mirror.=Smidge=

generallyso:Jim_Callahan: The chances of screwing up on all of that at once is pretty low, so accidental discharge is usually just scary and sometimes injures people, but is rarely if ever lethal.

I've never liked the term 'accidental discharge' since the act is less an accident that couldn't be reasonably avoided than it is criminal negligence and reckless endangerment.

Concur. The Army folks I work with in my new civvie life seem to think I am confused when I call what they term an "accidental discharge" a "negligent discharge" - but that is the term I learned, and I think it is much more appropriate than an AD

Smidge204:Egoy3k: This isn't true, unless you have a break action, or a bolt that can be removed there is no way to check the barrel for obstruction without pointing it at your head(eye). You have to prove that the firearm is empty and safe before doing so.

Or you can shine a light down the muzzle while looking into the breech end to see if the light shines through.

Or if you really must peer into the muzzle, you could use a mirror.=Smidge=

Uisce Beatha:Shush you, any outlier is clearly demonstrating common characteristics of the whole

Well, the result of said outlier kinda matters. If I'm at a Wal-mart and I'm actually wearing a shirt and pants the right way with shoes on my feet I'm definitely an outlier but the worst of it is that I look out of place. The "outlier" to someone mishandling a car or a gun is that someone can get killed, which is why we very closely regulate. . . um, the one where the primary function is transportation.

Someone shoots themselves in the head in this matter is guaranteed not to be a "responsible gun owner".

How many gun owners make it through the year while managing not to shoot themselves (or anyone else) accidentally?

I take out the word "gun" and substitute "car". And yes, there are many "car owners" how kill themselves, loved ones and strangers every year. There are hundreds of millions more "car owners" who manage to not do so, despite using the machine capable of doing so every day, sometimes for an hour or more every day.Some are responsible car owners, some are just lucky.

Someone shoots themselves in the head in this matter is guaranteed not to be a "responsible gun owner".

How many gun owners make it through the year while managing not to shoot themselves (or anyone else) accidentally?

I take out the word "gun" and substitute "car". And yes, there are many "car owners" how kill themselves, loved ones and strangers every year. There are hundreds of millions more "car owners" who manage to not do so, despite using the machine capable of doing so every day, sometimes for an hour or more every day.Some are responsible car owners, some are just lucky.