I completely agree with your points. On a related note, I'm planning on introducing my 6 year old cousins to the Star Wars universe, and they'll be watching the films in chronological order (starting with Ep. 1 3D this week... convenient considering Phantom Menace is the more appropriate for children). Hopefully they'll find it to be a cohesive generational saga (well, they're kids, at least it'll make sense for them). It should be interesting (exciting, actually, at least for me) to see people experiencing the movies like this for the first time.

I'd really advise you to show them the films in chronological *release* order- after all, you do want them to get interested in the Star Wars universe, right? If you take them to the theater to see the 3D money grab, at least you won't have to worry about finding good seats.

Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:06 pm

H.I. McDonough

Director

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pmPosts: 1310

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

Your bias is showing again, Ragnarock.

I've often pondered about the following order for a first-timer to watch the movies: I, IV, II, V, III, VI. Granted, they'd have to be OK with non-linear storytelling. You could see how the Skywalkers' journeys parallel each other... PLUS, the familial revelations are still intact (though the sibling revelation would be moved from the middle of ROTJ to the end of ROTS when Padme gives birth; you're also led to believe that Anakin will die, which, while it does occur, it doesn't actually happen until the very end). And of course, all subsequent viewings of the saga should then be in numerical order.

Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:38 pm

Ragnarok73

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

H.I. McDonough wrote:

Your bias is showing again, Ragnarock.

I've often pondered about the following order for a first-timer to watch the movies: I, IV, II, V, III, VI. Granted, they'd have to be OK with non-linear storytelling. You could see how the Skywalkers' journeys parallel each other... PLUS, the familial revelations are still intact (though the sibling revelation would be moved from the middle of ROTJ to the end of ROTS when Padme gives birth; you're also led to believe that Anakin will die, which, while it does occur, it doesn't actually happen until the very end). And of course, all subsequent viewings of the saga should then be in numerical order.

I'm just talking about keeping the kids interested by showing them the good quality films first, then the mediocre-to-bad films next. I know someone whose own 6-year-old daughter developed a serious interest in the Star Wars universe after her father showed her the original trilogy films. He then sat down with her to watch Episode I - she asked him to turn the film off right at the point where R2-D2 was being thanked by Queen Amidala for saving the ship. This just goes to show that even children can find the PT films impossible to sit through.

Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm

Ken

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

To the best of my memory, the films work better as a series if viewed old first, new second. The plot revelations make more sense and the increased sophistication in production technology isn't as jarring.

That said, I'm currently viewing them in story number order on the recommendation of fans who believe that chronology is more important. Perhaps I'll come away thinking that this is the better approach.

Wishing to expose new viewers to the "good" ones first is a poor approach, because it deprives them of the right to make their own judgment. That's something they will never have the chance to do again.

Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:35 am

Sebastian

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

Ragnarok73 wrote:

H.I. McDonough wrote:

Your bias is showing again, Ragnarock.

I've often pondered about the following order for a first-timer to watch the movies: I, IV, II, V, III, VI. Granted, they'd have to be OK with non-linear storytelling. You could see how the Skywalkers' journeys parallel each other... PLUS, the familial revelations are still intact (though the sibling revelation would be moved from the middle of ROTJ to the end of ROTS when Padme gives birth; you're also led to believe that Anakin will die, which, while it does occur, it doesn't actually happen until the very end). And of course, all subsequent viewings of the saga should then be in numerical order.

I'm just talking about keeping the kids interested by showing them the good quality films first, then the mediocre-to-bad films next. I know someone whose own 6-year-old daughter developed a serious interest in the Star Wars universe after her father showed her the original trilogy films. He then sat down with her to watch Episode I - she asked him to turn the film off right at the point where R2-D2 was being thanked by Queen Amidala for saving the ship. This just goes to show that even children can find the PT films impossible to sit through.

OK, I'm not saying you're wrong, but the whole point of this is for them to see the films in the way they were intended to be seen story-wise... besides, they've already seen stuff like the Clone Wars cartoon and already liked it, so I doubt they're not gonna like Episode 1. Hopefully they'll have a similar reaction to James - and everything will fall into place for them story-wise if they watch the movies in this order.

Yeah, read that a couple of hours ago. Similar opinions, but it's not completely the same as James' reel thought. Still...

Maybe I should've mentioned that I was kinda joking....nahhhh

haha, yeah, makes sense.

Anyway, I went yesterday with my two cousins - one is 6 years old and the other one is 4. Predictably, the older one really liked it - although he had trouble understanding some parts, including all the unnecessarily political stuff, obviously - but the smaller one was kind of bored. I guess he's too small, since he wasn't even that entertained by the pod race and the other action sequences. Still, the older one really liked the movie, so there's that.

Oh and yeah, I can also proudly say that neither of them laughed with Jar Jar's antics. Oh yeah.

Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:36 am

MinnJD

Gaffer

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:17 amPosts: 38

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

I have yet to try it, but I have an opinion that the best way to watch the movies is 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. That way, you get the proper reaction to Vader's ESB revelation, and then the story does a six hour flashback that shows how Vader came to be. Not sure if it'll work but it sounds nice in theory.........

_________________--If I have to hear "Ya Mo B There" one more time, I'm going to ya mo burn this place to the ground.--

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:40 pm

calvero

Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pmPosts: 1404

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

Quote:

As a point of interest, I should note that I rewatched all six movies in chronological order before writing the Lucas defense.

wow guess you still have a lot of free time. shame it can't be used for new reviews, instead of rehashing something you have posted on many times before.

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:17 pm

H.I. McDonough

Director

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pmPosts: 1310

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

MinnJD wrote:

I have yet to try it, but I have an opinion that the best way to watch the movies is 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. That way, you get the proper reaction to Vader's ESB revelation, and then the story does a six hour flashback that shows how Vader came to be. Not sure if it'll work but it sounds nice in theory.........

If you saw the viewing order for a first-timer that I suggested above on this page, you'll see that I agree that ROTS should be seen next-to-last (at least the first time around) and ROTJ should be viewed the very last (not just the first but also every subsequent time you watch the entire saga); the other 4 are probably interchangeable the first time around (though I still feel alternating from each trilogy would likely make for more even, consistent viewing ). Anakin/Vader's moment of redemption has much more weight and resonance when you've seen the whole story as to how he got where he was (and particularly since the scene also parallels the moment where he crossed over to the Dark Side in the first place -- again, he must choose between Palpatine/Sidious and a Jedi ). Having been previously exposed to Yoda's full backstory also makes his death even more emotional. And, as James mentioned, also knowing Palpatine's full backstory makes him feel more like a threat to Luke and makes him feel more like what he really is, i.e. the saga's true villain rather than Vader, who was a mere victim of his machinations.

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:28 pm

Ken

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

If you're going to make the running order as unnecessarily confusing as possible, you might as well scatter your discs on the floor and watch the movies in the order that they fall.

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:42 pm

Dragonbeard

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

There are two LOGICAL ways to watch the movies:

Real life chronology or Canon chronology. If you decide on the former, you should probably start with a theory lesson on movie history, with specific attention paid to the meanings of words like 'prequel' and 'phenomenon' etc. Perhaps read a few back issues of Empire to find out exactly why they decided that Star Wars is the best movie ever made.These are all things you will need to cover, and more, if you decide to let a child of single digit age view the movies this way.

With any luck, children that young will probably not pick up on the subtle continuity problems when watching the movies in canon order.

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:54 pm

johnny larue

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

Pretty cool slideshow of the works of Ralph McQuarrie, recently deceased, who was the artist behind much of the look and feel of the Original Trilogy. Cool to see how Lucas transformed McQuarrie's visions to the final product.

I recently bought the movies on Blu Ray and watched them in chronological order. There's no question I'd show the movies in chronological (story) order to a newcomer. The expanded backstory of how the Republic twisted into the Empire and how Anakin was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force really adds so much more to the story told in the original trilogy, and the triumph feels all the sweeter. A few things I noticed:

1. The duel between Obi Wan and Vader in A New Hope will give you the chills if you watch it after Revenge of the Sith. Their lines of dialogue take on so much more power after witnessing how their last fight ended up.

2. I felt sorry for Yoda in Empire. He was so wise and badass in the prequels, yet here he's reduced to a hermit who can really only give a simplified version of training to Luke that he's undoubtedly given to many Jedi before him. You feel for him in ways you won't if the movie is watched second instead of fifth.

3. As JB said, the Emperor coming back in ROTJ makes more sense when watched sixth. From the beginning, you can tell he wants to cast Vader aside and replace him with Luke, just as he did with Anakin over Count Dooku in ROTS.

The entire Star Wars series has an ebb and flow. The Republic scores a win in TPM (but at the loss of Qui-Gon), both sides get their licks in in AOTC, and a tragedy of Shakesperian proportions occurs in ROTS. The Original Trilogy then plays out as a series of back-and-forth between the Rebels and the Empire. Along the way, viewers will root harder for Luke to succeed where his father failed.

Bottom line? Technology shmechnology. You can easily explain to someone why IV-VI look different than I-III. Forget for a moment how we experienced these movies and think about how it would best work for future generations.

Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:17 am

Ken

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

I am 3.25 movies into my "episode order" rewatch of the sextology. I believe I can already isolate the most valuable players of the entire series. They are, in order: John Williams, R2-D2/Kenny Baker, and C-3PO/Anthony Daniels.

And, of course, one George Walton Lucas.

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:08 am

Ragnarok73

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

Ken wrote:

I am 3.25 movies into my "episode order" rewatch of the sextology. I believe I can already isolate the most valuable players of the entire series. They are, in order: John Williams, R2-D2/Kenny Baker, and C-3PO/Anthony Daniels.

And, of course, one George Walton Lucas.

Have you been drinking while watching these films? Your post above has the sort of precision that one who is consciously trying to sound coherent would convey...

Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:43 pm

Ken

Re: January 31, 2012: "By George! Defending Lucas (Part 2)"

I always drink when I watch films.

It's probably a good thing that I'm not marathoning the whole series in one sitting.

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