dj1107 wrote:So I recently started reading JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Enjoying the hell out of it. Already on Diamond are Unbreakable.

I have heard of this.How old is it again? What is it about? Also has anyone else read Claymore It is basically DragonballZ, except instead of men with roid rage and constipation, we have women in skin tight armour and big ass swords and it is set in middle earth.

JoJo's Bizarre adventure has been around since 1986 to now & is written by Hirohiko Araki. It's currently the longest running manga. The series is an anthology series split up into 8 parts following different protagonists of the Joestar line as they all have there fair share of bizarre adventures. The parts & there protagonists follow:

Phantom Blood: Jonathan Joestar

Battle Tendancy: Joesph Joestar (Grandson to Jonathan)

Stardust Crusaders: Jotaro Kujo (Grandson to Joesph)

Diamond is Unbreakable: Josuke Higashikata (Bastard son to Joesph)

Vento Aureo: Giorno Giovana (One of the many bastard children of Dio Brando)

Stone Ocean: Joelyn Cujoh (daughter to Jotaro)

Steel Ball Run: Johnny Joestar (SBR was a rebooted universe so he's the new Jonathan) & Gryo Zeppeli (An AU version of the Zeppeli line who were prominent in the first 2 parts)

I saw one of the books a long time ago and thought "this does not look like my kind of story" and put it down in place of something else, as you do, but that picture above and what you said make it sound quite interesting.

I've heard it was good from some acquaintances but nobody could give me a good enough description of what it was about. As much as I love badass swords and powerful female characters, I kinda need a little bit more of an idea of what plot actually is.

ari-6 wrote:I saw one of the books a long time ago and thought "this does not look like my kind of story" and put it down in place of something else, as you do, but that picture above and what you said make it sound quite interesting.

Well I just listed down protagonists here's a preview on what's in the book if you decide to read it.

-vampire Jack the Ripper

-hamfisted cyborg Nazi

-scantly clad beefcake men named after rock bands

-A story where the main hero beats a bad guy at a game of poker with pure swag

-serial killer David Bowie

-A guy who's ghost like entity is named Metallica.

-the President of the United states having a ghost like entity called Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap.

-mumified corpse of Jesus Christ

-A beat down of a universally hated character that lasts for 7 pages.

Last edited by dj1107 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Basically, Claymore is like Queen's Blade. But it lacks a proper variety of abilities (which is the current mainstream), its development overall is sort of bland, and it isn't suggestive enough - causing it to have such a poor fandom.

It's kind of like a female version of Berserk - but Berserk was executed far better than Claymore.

As for JJBA, I'd suggest using the Abridged series for the original JJBA and then reading after that:

Grats Tenshi and others that got their status updated in the past couple years! ^^

Well yeah there's the fun abridged series on the Stardust Crusaders OVA. But you can also check out the 2012 anime as well since it's a good 90% adaptation of the first 2 parts. Mind you I recommend you find an upload of the blu-ray version since that fixed up some animation, & gives you all the good ol' bloody as hell violent scenes. By the way Antfish (the guy who made JJBATAS) is doing an abridged series of the 2012 anime.

Krest wrote:Yeah, but the Abridged series he's making isn't done yet. In fact, it's only an episode or so in. That's why I suggest reading. But if they finished the second part's anime, you could use that too.

Part 2 is finished in the anime. Everyone's just patiantly waiting for Part 3 to finally be properly done.

Wow. Not sure how to respond to that. I have not read queens blade, is it really that good?

Krest wrote:But it lacks a proper variety of abilities (which is the current mainstream)

What would you qualify as "proper"?

Krest wrote:its development overall is sort of bland

Could you elaborate?

Krest wrote:and it isn't suggestive enough

Are you saying it does not have enough fanservice?

Krest wrote: causing it to have such a poor fandom

Are you saying the fanbase is small? The fanbase is made up of dissapointing people? Or the fanbase has no money? I know Claymore is not the most popular or mainstream, but that is one of the reasons why I like it. I think comparing it to Queens blade is a little harsh. I have not watched all of the anime but I have really enjoyed the manga and the art really can not be faulted.

Claymore and Queen's Blade both use the concept of female fighters as a basis. While QB is more based on PvP, both of them focus much more on fighting than plot. The problem with this is that QB manages to reach its intended audience - both feminists and perverts. Claymore is more for feminists. Despite this, Claymore's characters, plot, and setting all inherent characteristics that guys like more than girls. The colors are dry - something stereotypical for shonen manga. The characters have rough personalities and even rougher getups. Guys are fine with this, girls aren't. This would be fine if Claymore was bent to a male audience - but it isn't. It's supposed to be geared towards females.

The plot is linear in the sense that there's only one actual conflict and the entire series is based off of it. This rules out things like suspense and allows for less character development. Alongside this, all characters use the same exact abilities - basically, physical prowess, basic warrior abilities, and super forms. However, all the super forms look about the same. None of them are TRULY unique and thus there isn't a large variety of things the characters can do with them.

On top of this, Claymore is aimed towards the blood/gore genre. This is why it's like Berserk. However, Claymore focused more on showing off what the characters could do, thus dimming the impact of the blood and gore. This would be fine if the characters could do enough to actually catch the eyes of the readers/watchers, but they didn't because their abilities were all basically copies of one another.

The failure to reach the intended demographic and the lack of any "fireworks" in character design/development, plot, and overall setting kept it from gaining a large number of fans. No work will survive without a proper fandom. It'll only fade from memory, which Claymore has done.

I'd say FIM is the complete opposite and it's good for comparison. FIM reached not only its intended audience but nearly every audience because it had "fireworks" in pretty much everything. No part of FIM outshone anything else and the creators adjusted the show to fit the suggestions and praise of all of the fans. Claymore did none of those things. While FIM always had things to make people think and catch their eyes, Claymore didn't. Claymore's concepts have all existed before and in much greater forms. It couldn't match up to other works.

Grats Tenshi and others that got their status updated in the past couple years! ^^

Krest wrote:Claymore and Queen's Blade both use the concept of female fighters as a basis

As do about a hundred other anime

Krest wrote: both of them focus much more on fighting than plot

As do about a hundred other anime

Krest wrote: Claymore is more for feminists. Despite this, Claymore's characters, plot, and setting all inherent characteristics that guys like more than girls. Guys are fine with this, girls aren't. This would be fine if Claymore was bent to a male audience - but it isn't. It's supposed to be geared towards females.

My aren't we sexist? One thing, Claymore is published by shounen jump. SHOUNEN jump. I am aware that some mangaka try to catch tertiary female audience by including bishy male characters but it is still primarily a male oriented magazine. Claymore might have a larger female audience compared to most, though I doubt larger than Naruto, but saying it is primarily geared towards females when it is published in shonen jump is silly.

Krest wrote:The plot is linear in the sense that there's only one actual conflict and the entire series is based off of it. This rules out things like suspense and allows for less character development.

Though I am not sure what linear plot means I would admit that suspense and character development are probably two of it's weakest points.

Krest wrote: However, all the super forms look about the same. None of them are TRULY unique and thus there isn't a large variety of things the characters can do with them.

Well not every mangaka can draw such varied and interesting "super modes".

Krest wrote: The failure to reach the intended demographic and the lack of any "fireworks" in character design/development, plot, and overall setting kept it from gaining a large number of fans. No work will survive without a proper fandom. It'll only fade from memory, which Claymore has done.

Well it is still being published so it must be doing something right.

Krest wrote: I'd say FIM is the complete opposite and it's good for comparison. FIM reached not only its intended audience but nearly every audience because it had "fireworks" in pretty much everything. No part of FIM outshone anything else and the creators adjusted the show to fit the suggestions and praise of all of the fans. Claymore did none of those things. While FIM always had things to make people think and catch their eyes, Claymore didn't. Claymore's concepts have all existed before and in much greater forms. It couldn't match up to other works.

Honestly most of the things you have said sound like your personal opinion but you presented them as though they were fact. I understand it is not the most popular and maybe it did not appeal to you personally and honestly it does not even make my top ten but I feel it has more going for it that you give it credit for.

I'm not sexist. I was making a general observation on how Claymore specifically seeks to make women seem highly overpowered and promotes the overall strength, intelligence, and design of females. I'm not saying that other manga don't empower men in the same way or that females aren't as powerful as Claymore designs them to be. Quite the opposite actually - I'm a feminist myself. But the manga is designed to do the above - this appeals to feminists. At the same time, it lacks certain features that would cause perverted eyes to enjoy it. This isn't itself bad - but Shonen, which has a mainstream male audience - should not have been the medium for the work and the creators shouldn't have tried to reach a male audience which the features the characters had in Claymore. They should have aimed for a female audience. The work is feminist but the creators didn't seek a female audience. That was the largest problem.

I agree with you that DBZ is just like Claymore - in fact, worse - when it comes to super forms. But DBZ countered this with the "fireworks" I mentioned before. The plot, setting, and character development made up for it. They didn't in Claymore. The reason I say Claymore's forms were so similar was based on their abilities rather than their looks. All the forms still express physical abilities in a limited sense. While this might be cool in a Monster Hunter game, it isn't fine in an anime that NEEDS more to develop itself.

I also admit hundreds of other anime do the same thing. But the ones that focus on plot get more fandom. It is definitely getting enough fandom to survive, sure. But many of my favorite series never had a proper fandom and they got published in full too - like Dreameater Merry for example. I am simply showing that Claymore neither incorporates enough successful devices to appeal to the majority NOR is it strange/unique enough to get a sort of weird enjoyment out of it. This doesn't mean it's bad. It's actually okay. I just wouldn't suggest it with glee on my face.

Grats Tenshi and others that got their status updated in the past couple years! ^^

Okay, situation resolved. I definitely do not want to get into an argument about straw feminism, especially not in my favourite thread. And there are lots of better anime/manga to argue about. One of my favourites is "Does Lulouch survive at the end of Code Geass?" Yes he does

Well Yes & no in my head. But that's mostly because in my head a 100 year demon punched a hole through his chest the size of a bowling ball & absorbed his memories & Geass. But that's just me & my wacky fan-fics.

Yeah... but that one was quite explicit. I wouldn't have done it otherwise.

Back to Bacchon Girls (correct spelling). It was released partly by Monthly Comic Blade in February 2002. No one has ever translated it and I can't find it raw. It has only two volumes and was canceled, but it looks awesome. Anyone happen to know of a way I can get my hands eyes on a translated version?

Last edited by Krest on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grats Tenshi and others that got their status updated in the past couple years! ^^

Krest, I just read your other post in the "Hero Pains" thread. I think you misinterpreted. Shiro does not explode when she reaches her full potential. Her regeneration power stops working. She tried to burn herself out and die by pushing her limits, and that is what caused the earthquake (I think it was called dead hole in the anime) but she failed. Also about Code Geass. Lulouch did survive due to possesing his fathers code making him as immortal as C.C. Also in the final scene C.C was talking to Lulouch which she could not do if he were dead. He was the hey cart driver.

Now how the heck do I colour that text red? I am missing colour options. Never mind I got it. DO NOT READ THE RED IF YOU PLAN DO OR ARE WATCHING EITHER OF THOSE!

Last edited by ari-6 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I know but I like to use the colours anyway because it is a good idea, Just in case somehow someone missed the warning. Also have you checked your messages yet? Also I looked up who you were talking about out of curiosity This is him? His arms are reminiscent of PopEye. Also a sailor.About that picture Lost Seven. That does look epic. I am interested.

Last edited by ari-6 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lost Seven...It kinda looks like something to do with mercenaries? Am I right? At first I would think some kind of Feudal Era but then I see the trenchcoats, so I don't know what this is. But it does look cool and I do have a thing for Trenchcoats.

As far as I remember, Lelouch used his father's power to undo the whole Gods incident. He was mortal after that happened. Also, there's absolutely nothing that suggests Lelouch was the driver. The body shape was completely different, even. Plus, CC was talking so low that the driver probably couldn't hear her over the sound of the horses' hooves.

It's medieval, based on fairy tales. Also...throwable BFSs. Yes.

Grats Tenshi and others that got their status updated in the past couple years! ^^

He's still alive.Some are believing he's that cart driver.Alright, the last episode was pretty complex and out of most of the people I’ve talked to, a lot of people don’t seems to get it. I’m going to tie up all the lose ends with this post.

The Code is the power of immortality, which C.C. has. Charles, has the Code too. He transferred the Code to Lelouch while strangling him in episode 21. Lelouch wanted this, and he deliberately told Suzaku to not interfere.

However, the Code does not activate unless receiver dies first. This is shown when the nun kills C.C. after transferring the Code to her. Charle’s Code activated when he shot himself. Here is one of the big misconceptions that most people have: The transfer of the Code does not involve death of the transferrer. The nun was crazy and killed herself after she transferred her code. V.V was injured from the battle and died. So basically, after episode 21, Lelouch had Charle’s Code (inactivated) and C.C’s contracted Geass.

When Lelouch got stabbed by Zero/Suzaku at the end, his Code was activated. What supports this is that Nunnally got Lelouch’s memories when she touched her, just like Lelouch did when he touched C.C. back in Narita. The only way this could have happened is his Code activating. This pretty much confirms that he has the Code.

Unlike C.C., and Charles, who lost their Geass because the people who contracted them died, Lelouch didn’t obtain C.C.’s Code and thus kept his Geass, while having the Code (which he obtained from Charles at the same time). Lelouch therefore has achieved CODE GEASS.

Basically, Lelouch is the person driving the cart in the last scene. He, who is now immortal, travels the brand new world he has created together with the also immortal C.C. C.C. talks to Lelouch in the end by saying: “Geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you… well, I guess that's a not quite right… eh, Lelouch?”

Now comes the second big misconception. A lot of people say C.C. was just talking to the dead like with Marianne, that’s not true. She could only talk to her because of the nature of her Geass which allowed her to implant herself into the “hearts” of others. That’s how she was able to talk with Marianne. Lelouch’s Geass was entirely different, meaning that she could only have spoken to him if he was there. Also, the fact that the cart driver is masking his features completely supports this fact, considering the fact that Lelouch is now considered dead.

Also

Krest wrote:And hmmm... Still, she can only reach 100%.

There can only be 100% of any existing thing. Despite what might be said in mainstream fight anime.

Last edited by ari-6 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.