If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Hand crafted maps

ok i have asked this in a number of threads so maybe its been missed by someone who actually knows the answer so i have decided to give it its own thread in the hope that it can be confirmed.
Many many times i have heard the there are 200 hand crafted maps that have been made specifically for this game and not once of all the videos - podcasts and reviews i have seen - heard and read that i have ever ever seen this number confirmed even once?

Now i am a bit of a xcom nut and have pretty much read up about everything that can be found out of the new game and have not seen it anywhere.The closest i have seen to a number is jake soloman said in one interview there are a obscene ammount so wheres the 200 maps come from?

I am starting to think this is just one of those rumours that start - everyone sees a number and everyone states the same number from someone who says they have seen it and ends up being total poppycock.

I will be more than happy to be proved wrong as i would love to see 200 maps but i am thinking more on these lines.Jake soloman has said 2 things - one you can play the game through twice without ever seeing the same map twice. two - The average ammount of missions for a campaign is 25.

2 times 25 = 50 - now on the xcom main info page it says:

Worldwide Threat: Combat spans the globe as the XCOM team engages in over 70 unique missions, interacting and negotiating with governments around the world.

I am guessing and to be honest strongly drawn now that the actual number of maps is over 70 - thats the interpretaion of unique missions.
The reason i think this is jake soloman said in a interview on mission types there was less than 10 types so that means the 70 unique missions must be maps.

The problem then becomes when you start subdividing those maps... take away 10 for UFO interiors, take away another 1 for possible base defense. Maybe 2. Then take away 5 for base assault/final maps. That now leaves 50. Divide by terrain types: forest, city, farmland, desert, mountain, ice and you are left with 10 types of each. Let's pretend you play half of your 25 missions in forest terrain or in cities. That's 12 city missions. With 10 premade maps.

I *guarantee* that I will see the same map used twice in my first campaign, and you will definitely see the same map twice in two subsequent campaigns. It's just impossible to make enough hand crafted maps to offer unlimited variety. I've seen this promised in other games too and it never quite works out. Even with the release of a map editor, you get pretty shoddy maps.

i understand what your saying bud but no one is even actually sure yet how the use of maps is going to be used yet - up to a point they may even be scripted a little - what i mean by that is you may only get 5 ufo missions or 2 forrest maps etc thats why he gauruntees you will never see the same map twice.
I guess what i am really looking/hoping for is that link where its says heres your 200 maps.

The problem then becomes when you start subdividing those maps... take away 10 for UFO interiors, take away another 1 for possible base defense. Maybe 2. Then take away 5 for base assault/final maps. That now leaves 50. Divide by terrain types: forest, city, farmland, desert, mountain, ice and you are left with 10 types of each. Let's pretend you play half of your 25 missions in forest terrain or in cities. That's 12 city missions. With 10 premade maps.

I *guarantee* that I will see the same map used twice in my first campaign, and you will definitely see the same map twice in two subsequent campaigns. It's just impossible to make enough hand crafted maps to offer unlimited variety. I've seen this promised in other games too and it never quite works out. Even with the release of a map editor, you get pretty shoddy maps.

you dont know if the downed UFOs are an integral part of the map... maybe they designed 100 landscape maps, and ALL of those maps can be used with all different sizes of downed UFOs, as well as UFOs in different states of damage or not damaged at all (landed)

Speculation, conjecture and rumor at this point.
Waiting for Heniv to weed out all the woo haa.

Going just from memory I can remember the talk about not seeing the same map (or was it mission?) twice in a play-through (I believe it was the pod-cast), but I can't remember that they have stated the number of maps in the pool. I can't recall any source saying the average missions being 25 for a play through. (What is the source on that tazong?)

Also, I don't think we can apply some pseudo-math on this. For example;
- If we take Jakes statement of "more than 2 and less then 10" mission types (let's use 7), and combine with
- 70 unique missions from the XCOM website.
- Then it would only take 10 maps to create 70 unique map/mission combinations.
And that just absurd taking into account we have seen 7 (8?) maps so far.

Reading the "70" source, http://www.xcom.com/enemyunknown/info.php carefully, we can see that most of that is "marketing fluff", hazy descriptions & filler words. Made to sound cool, or just by someone not knowledgeable of the game.

you dont know if the downed UFOs are an integral part of the map... maybe they designed 100 landscape maps, and ALL of those maps can be used with all different sizes of downed UFOs, as well as UFOs in different states of damage or not damaged at all (landed)

This is correct- I thought we already saw a map where there is a downed UFO that is an entry point to a new map. Hence, they can just plop a UFO at the far edge of the map you are currently on (beyond the map edge, so it doesn't change the map) and add an 'exit' point, and voila, you have not modified your handcrafted map but you have linked it to a UFO assault.

And as I pointed out, 100 landscape maps are really not that much.. what you should be saying is that you have 8 forest maps, 8 desert, etc. All of a sudden, all it takes is 8 missions to see the same map twice.

Going just from memory I can remember the talk about not seeing the same map (or was it mission?) twice in a play-through (I believe it was the pod-cast), but I can't remember that they have stated the number of maps in the pool. I can't recall any source saying the average missions being 25 for a play through. (What is the source on that tazong?)

Also, I don't think we can apply some pseudo-math on this. For example;
- If we take Jakes statement of "more than 2 and less then 10" mission types (let's use 7), and combine with
- 70 unique missions from the XCOM website.
- Then it would only take 10 maps to create 70 unique map/mission combinations.
And that just absurd taking into account we have seen 7 (8?) maps so far.

Reading the "70" source, http://www.xcom.com/enemyunknown/info.php carefully, we can see that most of that is "marketing fluff", hazy descriptions & filler words. Made to sound cool, or just by someone not knowledgeable of the game.

Yea, but 7 mission types on a single map is pure 7ameness since most of them will play out the same way, with the same cover, etc. With Jake's statement of not seeing the same map twice (not same mission map combination) we can easily expect 50+ map types. And again, if you subdivide those by TYPE, and the fact that he didn't see the same one on a 20-30 mission playthrough, you have to assume there are at least 10 of each type (city, forest, desert, town, etc)

If this game doesn't have enough maps to make each play through different, i.e. at least twice the number of maps than you'd encounter during one play through, then replay-ability is going to suffer. I don't mid seeing the same maps, but i'd like to see them all mixed up each time I play, I don't want to be all "Oh that's the garage map, which means it's forest with river map next mission.

How can you tell? I mean I estimate a lot of my XCOM classic games to be around thirty mi"ssions. However, I don't typically "train" my troops. I mean, it's a hard thing to tell. You've got to factor in people simply stretching out the game. :|

I dont have a source but the game is supposed to be moddable. And its being made by firaxis who made civ 5 mod friendly with even a mod manager built in. So im guessing it will be. PLUS its going to be on steam so if they can impliment steam workshop, we will have map packs with 50 maps in each lol