RABAT, Morocco (AP)  Two U.S. Marines were killed and two severely injured in the crash of a hybrid aircraft in Morocco on Wednesday, officials said.

The Marines were taking part in joint U.S.-Moroccan military excercises located in the south of the country based in Agadir, said U.S. Embassy spokesman Rodney Ford in Rabat, who gave the toll.

Capt. Kevin Schultz, a Marine spokesman at the Pentagon in Washington, confirmed that the aircraft involved was an MV-22 Osprey, which takes off and lands like a helicopter and flies like an airplane. The aircraft was participating in a U.S.-Moroccan military exercise known as "African Lion."

I read a few days ago about a push to replace COD aircraft with the Ospreys. I've been watching their development for years (decades?) and I just don't have a good feeling about them. A lot of people have been killed in these things - whether to training or maintenance or just inherent dangers/stabilization in hover to flight transition and back.

I don't know. I can't quantify it - can't back it up with facts, just as an aviation nut, ex-Navy aircrew and pilot myself, I'd hate to have a son flying them. I'd never sleep.

Your son is in my prayers this evening. I hope to God he’s safe and sound and that the men who died are in God’s hands. Their mission is complete here and they’ve served us well. God Bless them and God Bless their families.

We have troops in over 150 different countries. Guarding embassies, maintaining airfields and ports, helping move supplies, training governments on how to fight insurgents, Afghanistan, intelligence gathering, the list goes on.

I don't know. I can't quantify it - can't back it up with facts, just as an aviation nut, ex-Navy aircrew and pilot myself, I'd hate to have a son flying them. I'd never sleep.

There've been a lot of lessons learned flying this machine. My son loves it and I have every confidence that the plane will take care of the troops as long as the pilot takes care to follow his training as is true with any type aircraft.

The last operational loss, I believe, was an Air Force Model that the pilot flew into the ground. Even at that, most of the occupants survived.

12
posted on 04/11/2012 5:39:41 PM PDT
by sonofagun
(Some think my cynicism grows with age. I like to think of it as wisdom!)

We probably have troops in about 80 % of the worlds nations. And for the life of me I cannot fathom why.

"War on Terror" (i.e. the never-ending war), embassy guard duty, training, maintaining airfields, supply depots, and naval ports for our troops overseas, there are many reasons why we have troops scattered around the world.

Are they all necessary? A lot are necessary - I would rather not see our Marines pulled out of embassy guard duty, and a lot of the airfields and ports are needed to support our missions overseas, and we do a lot of intelligence gathering on the ground that a satellite simply can't do.

Now when it comes to military aid to other nations, that's a whole different topic.

There was a question of how long that fancy double diaphragm drive that synchronizes the left/right rotors would last. My former boss was going to bid the stress analysis job. I'm not sure it was ever done as the parties interested in doing the analysis couldn't figure out how to couple the vibration signature into a sensor to monitor it. When (not if) that diaphragm fails from work hardening, the bird falls out of the sky.

I volunteer for the USO and worked on the Iwo Jima last May during Fleet Week in NYC. It was docked on the Hudson River. I always visit the guys on the flight deck and make it a point to visit the Osprey!

22
posted on 04/11/2012 7:25:07 PM PDT
by toldyou
(Even if the voices aren't real they have some pretty good ideas.)

"I've been watching their development for years (decades?) and I just don't have a good feeling about them."

First started hearing about them while in the Corps in the late 80's. I want to say around 1987 or so. It's been a long time to get this thing operational and numerous times people have tried to kill it. Overall, I think this Osprey is a good thing for the Corps. The capabilities it gives the Marine Corps is tremendous. It's had it's mishaps along the way, but if you go back into the history of every helicopter program, there have been problems, crashes and deaths.

We can't judge this crash without any facts and assume that it was a malfunction of the Osprey. It could be pilot error, weather, mechanical failures due to improper maintenance procedures. A million things. Let's not assume that the helicopter is flawed. Remember, in the early 80's there were people trying to kill the M-1 Abrams program. It is now the main battle tank of our military and without it, there would have been a lot more deaths in Gulf War I and Iraq. Good thing it wasn't killed and is now considered one of the best tanks in the world.

I was at Bell Helicopter when this was my project during the development phase. Stayed there long enough to see the first production product. After seeing the ballistics test on the under carriage...you don't want to be in there. Lots of maintenance problems..lots of downtime...problems with the transitional modes. The test pilots were even scared to take it up. Trust me on this one...I have flown on the CODs many times. I will take them over the V-22 ANYTIME

The last operational loss, I believe, was an Air Force Model that the pilot flew into the ground.

As an aircraft engineer I believe most crashes could be considered flying into the ground, LOL!

I personally believe that the V-22 is a horribly foolish design that lifts itself from its extremities in a balance critical fashion when it could do the same job better if the rotor or coaxial rotors pivoted from above the aircraft's center of gravity along the aircraft's center line to in front of the craft. I personally believe the design was drawn up by an artist, and then forced upon the engineers. Unfortunately simple, stable, and effective were abandoned in favor of the "cool looking" Rube Goldberg designed contraption that is the V-22. Best of luck to your son. I hope he stays safe while protecting us.

If I had my way Marine 1 would be an Osprey and Obama, Biden, Reid, and Pelosi would all ride on it together.

32
posted on 04/13/2012 6:48:22 AM PDT
by ME-262
(We need Term Limits for the federal house and senate. We need new Bums up there.)

I believe so also. A digression...the B-2 has quaternary computer control of the aileron surfaces.....FOUR level backup! It cannot be flown without computer trim .....that should tell us something.....

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