Thunder nips the Pistons at the buzzer, 105-104

Fitting. That’s the first word that came to mind for me after this game ended. Fitting.

Fitting that Jeff Green was the hero. Fitting that after his fairly horrific start, that Uncle Jeff was one of the key guys that came up huge for the Thunder in the second half. Fitting that he finished off the game for OKC to move the Thunder to 2-0. And fitting that Green made another one of “those plays” that seem to define his value.

Green is a hot topic around the fanbase and his supporters will most definitely point to this game. Jeff Green just seems to come up with big plays. Even if you’re not a Green apologist, it’s kind of hard to deny.

After Charlie Villanueva hit a corner 3 that appeared to put away the Thunder and seal the kind of loss that ruins your Friday night, Green found the ball in his hands with seven seconds left in one of those “This is supposed to go to Durant, but we can’t get it there” plays. And of course Green wiggled his way down the lane and made a driving layup to win it for OKC.

Jeff Green started the game 0-6 from the floor and didn’t make his first shot until there was 50 seconds left in the first half. He was constantly left wide open from everywhere, but just never got a shot to drop. He finished the half 1-8 from the field, including 1-5 from 3. But the second half he began to assert himself much better, hitting his last 6-10 from the floor, including the game-winning shot.

But though Green was the apparent hero, and don’t get me wrong, he was huge, the gold star of the night goes to Serge Ibaka. Off the bench, Air Congo put up 16 points on 6-9 shooting, grabbed 10 rebounds and blocked two shots in 28 minutes of work. He played mostly center and though I haven’t been a huge fan of Ibaka playing the 5, he’s done fairly excellent work there the first two games. (However, I think part of Ibaka’s success there has been due to the matchups there. Against the Bulls he got a similar player in Joakim Noah and against the Pistons, he was seeing a mix of Jason Maxiell and Charlie Villanueva, guys that are really power forwards.)

What’s interesting here though is while both Green and Ibaka were extremely valuable in OKC’s success Friday, the better Ibaka plays, the more dispensable Green becomes. Yes, Jeff Green had 21 points, five rebounds, three steals and a game-high 42 minutes. Yes, he hit the game-winner. But Ibaka was probably the key player for the Thunder and he (sort of) plays Green’s position. Obviously the Thunder is better off having both because depth is a glorious thing, but if the numbers don’t work in the end, the better Ibaka plays, the less money Sam Presti probably feels like he HAS to offer Green. At least that’s kind of my perspective at this time.

Notes:

It’s probably too early in the season to voice any real concerns, but James Harden’s offense has been fairly disappointing thus far. He scored just six points in the opener and was 0-5 for one point in this one. He only saw 15 minutes because of the matchups determining that Thabo needed to check Ben Gordon, but still. Hopefully this improves as Harden starts finding a rhythm off the bench as we go on.

KD went over 6,000 points for his career making him the third player in history to do that in under 240 games. He joins Shaq and LeBron. Pretty cool.

The other lede that just missed out was, “PAY HIM PRESTI. PAY HIM NOW MAX MONEY OR WHATEVER HE DEMANDS.” I felt like that might have been a bit of an emotional overreaction.

The black shoes returned on the road. Good to see. I was worried after the whites were worn in preseason.

Let me tell you, the FSN crew is in love the the X-Mo super slow-motion camera. For good reason too. Everything looks cool in that super slow-mo.

Oklahoma City’s new sharpshooter Daequan Cook is 0-6 from deep on the season and 0-8 from the field.

Detroit really tried to let OKC blow them out in the first half. It was almost like the Pistons were begging the Thunder to take at least a double-digit lead to halftime. They turned the ball over, took dumb shots and really gave the Thunder every chance to separate themselves. But OKC never could put together an 8-0 run to do it. It wasn’t like it was a bad half for OKC. Just inconsistent.

Jeff Green’s shot chart: 4-4 at the rim, 2-4 under 10 feet, 0-0 from 10-15 feet, 0-2 from 16-23 feet and 1-8 from 3. But honestly, Green was open with at least six of those 3s and one was a heave at the end of the half. I continue to believe Jeff Green is at least a serviceable outside shooter so when he’s open like that, he HAS to shoot.

Ben Gordon was a big reason this game was close late. Sometimes he’s just unstoppable. And that’s what he was in the fourth quarter.

Rodney Stuckey really seems to play well against the Thunder. I think the reason is because he does a great job of getting into the lane and attacking and Westbrook is the kind of player that allows that type of penetration.

Speaking of Westbrook (segue!) He had one of those Good Russ, Bad Russ games. Good: 11 assists, just three turnovers, six rebounds and 17 points. Bad: 4-13 from the floor and some questionable shots in key moments. But you take that with Westbrook because overall, he was terrific.

I thought Malik Rose was outstanding in the postgame stuff. Smart commentary, good talker and he just seems so nice.

Nenad Krstic quietly had a nice little game. He had 14 points, seven rebounds and showed off some pretty moves in the post in the first half.

KD with a second straight 30-point game but offensively, it was a bit forced. He went 9-24 from the field, but was good at the line hitting 11-13 for the second straight game. And he added eight rebounds, which was key. But once again, in a big spot late, Durant knocked down an important jumper that gave OKC a four-point lead. Seems like KD is developing a knack for those big fourth quarter shots.

Durant fell in love a little too much with the long 2-pointers tonight. He was 5-13 on long 2s tonight and 4-11 from everywhere else.

When you run down the box score, it really looks like the Thunder should’ve lost. OKC was 39 percent from the field to Detroit’s 47 percent. The Thunder didn’t hold a huge edge on the boards, outrebounding the Pistons just 47-44. But just like the opener, OKC did the damage with the easiest shot on the floor. The Thunder went 37-44 from the free throw line to the Pistons 16-20. The Pistons turned the ball over 18 times to OKC’s 12. In the end, it really wasn’t the ideal way of winning a game, but on the road, you take it.

Coach Scotty it the one allowing Green and Cook play so many minutes not us.He must be either doing one of three things: 1) Either he has seen or seeing something in the preseason or in practices that they are not showing in game, 2) its a heat check for the whole season to see if cook can actually be a rotation player or if that Green can put up massive and be productive. 3) or to light a fire within Harden and the others who are not playing as much. Those players may not be playing with passion or are not producing like they should in practice.

Remember Scotty is still making decisions for the whole year not just for the game. There are things you must do to teach your players.

Heres a few of my thoughts too.1) The more Green plays like he does the less money he can expect this next year.2) The more he has issues with post players and shooting so many shots the more likely he will be a sixth man later down the line.4) The more someone else plays in front of Harden will make his drive to become better more likely. He is a player that may need to be humbled every once in a while.

How long and how regular Cook gets a heat check will be interesting. I'd guess he'll get at least 5 straight or at least 5 in 8 or so but I don't think you lock in to 20 in 25-30 without some a pretty good level of positive feedback.

Harden played from the 1st game of his rookie season. Ibaka from his second. Mullens not for awhile- 2 months. Aldrich probably plays sometime in the next 3 games I'd think. Watching a real NBA game from the NBA bench is different than anything they've seen before and somewhat useful but eventually you got to get throw in the pool.

I could say some things about Green's stats so far compared to his past but I'll wait a bit longer or leave it to those that want to look to do it themselves. I think it is mildly interesting even if it is of course very very early.

Maynor with zero turnovers. Krstic just one.Maynor leading team on eFG% and TS%. Ibaka second on each.Kristic 13th in league among those playing 20+ minutes on OR% and Ibaka 22nd.

Westbrook around top 5 on assists per game and has his A/TO at 2.8, which is almost 40% above the career number and a10% above last season. Russ has been really hot at nailing his FTs too. Defensive rebounding rate 50% above last season. Tiny sample but what the heck.

Conceptually I'd think the Thunder offense is in the same ballpark, broadly speaking, at least based on how they use plays. Whether a coach would say it is the same or near the same as dribble drive with regard to how they actually run plays from an xs and Os execution standpoint I don't know. I've asked for opinions here on this before.

To all new or mewish fans / readers, I'd say welcome. I'd imagine many here have that sentiment even if it is not said much.

I can see letting Westbrook and Green run they way they are starting to run for up to a few months, maybe, at most depending on results and consequences for the team, but then evaluate fully by February and decide whether to continue or change if necessary beginning no later than March. How long you wait is a matter of judgment. You can wait too long. I guess you can wait too short too. Green in year 4, Westbrook in year 3. I'd think you should be able to decide the right level of usage, especially the pros who do it all day, all week, most of the year with lots of resources and get the big bucks. Show us the exact right decision-making.

The biggest story of the preseason were Harden's FTAs. He's 2-4 so far... I think a lot of getting the call is body language, and his body language is bad. He needs to relax and play his game; he looks uncomfortable (perhaps feels selfish?) about holding the rock for more than a few seconds, and that's on the second unit. Maybe Green has too much of Harden's respect offensively, or maybe he's truly just nervous. Maybe he's a self-conscious young kid. Maybe starting would give him the confidence he needs. Maybe Brooks should staff a psychiatrist.

@CrowI don't think Westbrook should be giving up any of his offensive aspirations. When the offense loses flow he's our best offensive option. He should actually be getting more isolation opportunities, opportunities KD has been botching. And he's getting to the line at a crazy rate. Last night should be the least-efficient version of Westbrook we see from here on out. He missed all his jump shots, but his efficiency at finishing and drawing fouls made him an overall positive--and that's just as a scorer. His playmaking ability is on point, and he isn't turning the ball over at a sickening rate. I would be happier with a few less 20-footers, but he's usually not awful there.

Green can keep all his shots around the basket, but about half of his three pointers and deep twos should be going to Harden, which last night would have resulted in 13 shots for Green and 10 for Harden--closer to preferable.

Probably no on Iggy given his contract. He is better at SG and of course SF is mostly filled right now. He is a better mix of offense and defense than Thabo but maybe not a better one or at least a better value than Harden. Would take 25-30 minutes for a couple of months to know though on Harden. Someday.

I wasn't able to devote a lot of attention to the game last night, anyone has a sense for why Ibaka's +/- was so far in the red?? My eyeballs told me he had a nice game, but it also seemed like some of those open three's came when Ibaka should have rotated out......

And you bring Cook into that environment and play him right out of the gate??? Because you lust for more draft picks even though most of the recent drafts have been weak overall and I don't see that changing soon and you don't have enough room to develop all the young guys you already have?

I don't think you have a lot of chance to play Cook into being wanted much around the league in a trade. Miami paid to take the Thunder offer because nobody else would.

If you want more from Ibaka, Harden, Krstic and others, especially if you are talking about shots, to a large degree Westbrook and Green have to give up a bit of their aspirations, if not their already previously achieved levels.

Brooks and Presti appear very willing to let the already endorsed key players take as much rope and responsibility as they want. That approach however can't really handle two flights of young guys. Ibaka may have moved into the first flight but Harden and Maynor are still pretty limited right now. Aldrich, Mullins and White can't get much foothold yet 'til Krstic and Collison possibly are demoted, moved or move on themselves.

I'm not too worried about the Aldrich thing, though I will be tonight if he doesn't get any minutes vs utah's front line. His issues with fouling aren't a small problem to gloss over; dude averaged like a foul every two minutes.

Like I said earlier, the Bulls and Pistons both have weak frontcourts, so if you're gonna experiment with using Cook in a small ball lineup, they're as good an opponent as any.

Yeah there will be nights like that. Maybe some on the other end too. Every team has some amount of up and down. To move up from 50 wins you need more nights where most things are working. You can still have some bad nights... in the regular season.

Own FG% and FG% allowed seem to play the biggest roles in playoff wins. In a playoff atmosphere there is usually tighter paints and sometimes less whistles blowing for foul shots.

Crow :On the 4 offensive factors they currently areeFG% 29thTO% 2ndOR% 5thFTM/ FGA 1stWhat do they getso far with 3 top 6 and 1 cellar?10th best offensive efficiency. About 1 pt better than last season. What if the foul shots don’t last at this level? Slip back, unless they shoot better.

This tells me that someone is set for a serious butt-kicking. If the boys can manage to put together even an average shooting night, some poor team is going to blown out big time.

Just understand that the anti-Green talk is coming from people who are genuinely interested in our team and its future. They devote a lot of personal time and mental energy on the team and its players. I am absolutely stunned at the near absence of trolling behavior given the size of this community.

We have a lot of stat people on here. I work in statistics and I know a few others here do too, so it's a natural for us to express our interest in the team through stats. I appreciate that not everyone is comfortable with stats. We're not telling you you aren't allowed to like certain players because their stats don't meet our preconceived ideals.

There are many different ways to be a fan. This is a really good community. Honestly, if you don't like reading some of the comments, just pass over them and accept that they're coming from someone who is genuinely interested in the team... but you just disagree with them :)

I think you make a good point. They have point guard coaches who played in the league and a big man coach who played in the league. In between they don't have a coach who played wing in the NBA. Maybe they should. I am not sure immediately how many teams have coaches with NBA experienced at PG, wing and big but ideally a team would try to have that experience available.

I thought Aldrich looked great in preseason with the exception of foul rate. It's obvious he knows what he's doing. Both he and Mullens are very active when they're on the court, constantly setting screens and moving off the ball, but you can see a NOTABLE difference between the two. Mullens is active without accomplishing anything. He's setting screens to set screens, but they don't result in anything. Not surprising with his low BBIQ. Aldrich set good screens; in particular I noticed several savvy off the ball screens. I was really impressed.

Besides, how can you possibly improve foul rate without playing a real game? Practice won't help; the problem probably has more to do with coping with adrenaline than BBIQ. Put the dude in the game!

Last season they actually got 1 more free throw per game against playoff teams compared to lottery teams but they shot 3 %pts worse on FG% and that had about 5 times great impact on offensive efficiency.

@CrowAs far as letting the players decide who they want to be--I think Brooks is very much a player's coach, and I can only remember documentation of Brooks being hands-on with Westbrook, who plays his old position. I have to believe Westbrook has benefited significantly from Brooks and Cheeks being on the staff. Maybe the organization should bring on a former successful player from every position--probably not feasible, but Green's game certainly hasn't changed in any noticeable way, and that's a player-development problem (both skill-wise and approach-wise), not really a offensive-system problem, though he would benefit from a better system (obviously).

This is the big story for me. Harden had a great pre-season, and you reward him with a timeshare of identical minutes as Cook? That makes zero sense. Granted he hasn't played great, but he's had pretty limited opportunity. Ibaka "earned" x-amount of minutes according to Brooks. I guess that Harden's rookie year and stellar pre-season "earned" him the same amount of time as a newcomer with a mediocre track record, at best.

If Green’s higher usage “experiment” is not coach-approved and just allowed to happen, what does that say?

If the players get to grow naturally / decide there is going to be good and bad. At some point you have to cut some things back or off. How much do you want to let the guys grow their own way is a pretty important philosophical, sociological and psychological question.

There is little room for me to believe that Westbrook or Green would live well with being less than a 15 pt scorer after they got to be that for as long as they have. Now they want to be 20 point scorers. Do you let them try or is that not a good idea and maybe in fact a bad idea that will cause hard to try to undo?

@CrowHow long Was Cheeks' contract extended? I assume he will likely get a head coaching gig at some point. In that case, hopefully he can bring in better offensive-minded X&O's guy. But you seem to be on track. I don't think Brooks wants a strong #2 either. Whether that's a good thing or not.. we shall see I guess.

[1] Maybe Green is a victim of our coaching staff’s lack of offensive game planning?...[2] Maybe Green would thrive in a sophisticated half court offense. Or at least be utilized correctly....[3] Why haven’t we found a quality offensive assistant to take the reins and for Brooks to support?

[1] I 'think' a lot of players are a victim to some degree of the offensive system / plan / play-calling or lack of better, more frequent play-calling. But, hard to say how definitively much is player and how much is coaching.

[2] Don't know on this because of [1].

[3] Brooks is coach of the year now. He isn't a new coach any more. He is acting like an established coach, the guy in charge, the guy who is making it happen. I don't think he wants a strong #2 on offense or defense. And unless you think Cheeks is powerful, Presti is going with it this year. Adams was a 1 year thing on the defense side. Brooks had more say in the replacement than last season with Adams and he took somebody he knew, but I don't yet. Still it doesn't appear to me that he wanted or got a strong force assistant. Because he may not think he needs or wants one.

I assume our nine-man rotations and minute distributions have been set pre-game. This would explain Cook's extended burn despite low quality of play. (Harden not being "scheduled" for more minutes is absolutely mind-boggling...) But if we don't see Aldrich in the rotation for next Sunday's meeting with the Celtics, we know he's simply "not ready" and Brooks is probably waiting for Collison to come back to kick Cook off the rotation. Though the Clippers and Blazers have good starting bigs, the Celtics have the deepest frontcourt in the league, and simply having six more fouls to use against Shaq would be helpful.

We should give Brooks the benefit of the doubt, I think, because this team is deep and there are lots of different directions to go with the rotations and lineups. The Cook experiment would be looking great if he'd just hit a few threes. Same with Green's higher usage "experiment" (if it is coach-approved--doubtful). Other than the infuriating Harden situation (the guy obviously needs more confidence, and that only comes with minutes), Brooks has been trying to get our best, most ready talent on the floor as much as possible. Unfortunately, this strategy doesn't seem to align with Presti's long-term, sustainable approach.

Why didn't we go after a more experienced center if Aldrich isn't even going to play? Does Brooks really think these lineups are good? It's way too early for these question, though I'm dying to know the answers.

@CrowTop 5 would be next to impossible for this team. Top 10 finish in TO% would be fantastic for this unit, I'd be happy with even top 15. The shooting numbers can't be this low forever. But without an impact from Harden, it's going to be tough.

It's not that I don't like healthy discussion, but it's just relying on biased statistics that bothers me. I really enjoyed that last point you made as is it informed and empirical, exactly a post I can respect. I really enjoy most of what you specifically and what many others have to say.

And to be honest, I have never had a chance to go to a game to see this in real life so I depend on you guys and the first hand accounts instead of stats to show me really how the game went outside the boxscore.

I appreciate this site and all the people who take time to support the Thunder.