My wild guess: Mardin could be the best line of Takla for flying in our infested by BOP (Bird Of Prey) sky. My believing based on flying style Kurt describing as:.... "It is a very low flying breed and is a solo flier. When flown instead of gaining altitude it will spend a few hours just a few yards above the roof tops while very rarely performing in the air.".... They would be an easy pray for Red Tail while sitting on roof top, but Peregrine and Cooper have much less chances to get them from the high sky.This season friend of mine fly New York Flights successfully through the all winter . He lost ~50 % of his stock(10 - 12 birds out of 25), but birds practically been spending whole days outside of the loft. The reason for high level of surviving of Flights is simple - they low flying breed. Previously he tried to keep many breeds such a Rollers, Wests, Tipplers, even Homers.......All those birds usually been trying to escape attacks of BOP in high sky and all of them end up in the same fatal way. Usually 20-30 birds kit did not last longer than November, December.....Anyone has experience on this matter with Mardin?

NY flights are faster than tumblers,and they don't perform so they don't get tired thus giving them an advantage (what i noticed when i raised them).Coopers love low flying breeds cause they're easier to ambush.I wouldn't really worry about red tails cause they're slow,if you happen to have a bird picked up by one then that bird is out of shape ,unless it was a breeder that got loose.Just my 2 cents...

There are no any doubts Tumblers can't compete with Flights for survival. My point is low flying birds have more chances for surviving than real high fliers if they dive down the ground instead of getting high sky when BOP is attacking.PS: Kurt,Could you post some more Mardin pics to compare them with other Takla?

grg wrote:PS: Kurt, Could you post some more Mardin pics to compare them with other Takla?

If I ran into good examples I will post them.It is really though to find a good one with the competition birds being mixed with different regional varieties to increase performance last 10-15 years to be honest.It is also very rare lately to run into some one who pays attention to those qualities.

So is it ok to mix the the regions for performance then?Wouldn't that create a bird that doesn't look like neither region?I am surprised that turkish breeders are mixing regions,as these birds come from there,so there's no shortage of performers.

Birdman79 wrote:So is it ok to mix the the regions for performance then?

Yes and no.Yes, if you know exactly what you are doing.No, because most mixing is done by not knowing and hoping for the best.

Birdman79 wrote:Wouldn't that create a bird that doesn't look like neither region?

True.However, those birds also are some what distinct in a way one can tell if they are mixed.This is most of the time true but becomes more difficult when the mixing is done multiple times.

Birdman79 wrote:I am surprised that turkish breeders are mixing regions,as these birds come from there,so there's no shortage of performers.

The process is called "kırmak" translated to English "Breaking"This method is widely used in the championship circles.Basically, each regional variety has its' distinct qualities but also its' limitations.So, to be successful with in the competition regulations you would need a bird that would get into a combination more often, charge the coop at a certain height like Sivas, go up long like Mardin or Urfa and do this while tumbling a lot like Ankara etc, etc.When the top guys are flying excellent Ankaras the only way one can separate himself from competition is to increase the climbing distance of it's birds.To do this, a longer climbing but not as hard tumbling bloodline is necessary.Now, it certainly can be done by working with in your bloodline but it will take much much longer time to achieve what you are trying to get to.Any way, I am sure you get the picture.Breaking a bloodline has to be done in a very precise way with a very distinct bird.To do this successfully two very pure bloodlines from different varieties are used.The young birds out of this breeding (if the pairing is successful) end up being what we call competition birds.The problem is these birds are usually not the best birds to start a breeding program with.Or I should say they will present many difficulties to the fancier and end up taking a lot of time to get an established bloodline.Kind of a gambling, some young birds might be excellent and some not so impressive.However, it is almost impossible to get the parents of these broken birds from the fanciers.

All these, if the breaking was done on purpose and by some one who knew exactly what he was doing.Maybe 2,3 percent of the birds in the market are like these.The rest are crap shoot.

In the mean time there are still many fanciers that follow the traditional ways and protect the traditional qualities of different regional varieties.These are the guys the competition fanciers will go to get the newest bird to break into their bloodline.After all, if a fancier ends up with top notch performing broken birds and spends the time to settle the bloodline where he is getting all young birds with very similar high quality performances and physical qualities, then that fancier pretty much becomes a legend in the community. It is a very difficult thing to do but can be done. These types of birds are no longer known as a regional variety but only known by the name of the fancier. This final effect is the one that drives most good fanciers to breaking. To make a name. Then again as I said it is a very difficult thing to do.

Side effect of it is the market full of birds no one knows what they are and most people wouldn't any way.They are takla but not with distinct quality where you can safely do a pairing.We call these birds "El Bombası" translated to English as "Grenade" as in it can explode in your hands.

tumblers wrote:i have One cock just started performing but he is only do like free ride style and tumble which bloodline have this type of performing

All Taklas do the free ride style and tumble.Be patient and see what happens in the future.On the other hand not knowing how you train the bird it is hard to say anything.

tumblers wrote:more like skycutters style

I don't what this means.What's a skycutter?Do you mean Orlik from Ukarine?If so those birds have avery distinct performance style, which means the bir you have is not a Takla at all.Then again I am not sure why it would be tumbling????