forgone conclusion, I know (same with it probably sucking, but hey, there's no law against making fun of them). Seems one of their people twitted they were looking for artists and in the process outted the game- perhaps with the lightened text he was hoping people wouldn't notice that fact

Maybe them looking for new environmental artists will mean they actually have a bigger scope again, and maybe 2 mansions for players to trek through over and over again this time.

so, if they're looking for artists already I guess we can expect them announcing it for a Holiday 2012 release, with one delay moving it to early 2013 and horrible looking screenshots appearing around March 2012?

« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 12:02:48 AM by CeeKay »

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Because I can,also because I don't care what you want.XBL: OriginalCeeKayWii U: CeeKay

If its true, I think Bioware is taking the wrong approach. Instead of making a full-on game in which they're tight for time/resources, consequently resulting in inferior quality, IMO they should be making more significant add-ons like Awakenings. I really like the approach Bethesda took with ES3 Morrowind by releasing 2 significant add-ons. Bioware did the same thing in the past with Neverwinter Nights, which had 2 decent add-ons. We don't need a major Dragon Age game every year -even every other year for that matter- that doesn't match the quality of the 1st. No doubt this is the EA $ making machine rub on them, and I curse them for it.

The Bioware panel at PAX revealed some new information on both upcoming DLC for DA2 and the direction of DA3. Like Mass Effect 3, it looks like DA3 will be a combination of elements of the first two games in the series. They hinted that DA3 would take place in an area much larger than even DA:O, that party member customization and possibly origins would return, and that DA2 set up the story of the world at war that will take place in DA3.

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"Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the same side." - The Big Bang Theory

Melo stated he has some regrets regarding DAII, where he feels things could have been executed better. He mentions that Bioware wants to make sure combat feels natural, and no environments are reused. He also mentions that he agrees with people who reacted negatively to the impact of choice (or lack, thereof), saying that the main story quest All That Remains comes to mind. Melo reaffirmed that choices and their consequences will be a major focal point of future content.

that would be a big step in the right direction.

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Because I can,also because I don't care what you want.XBL: OriginalCeeKayWii U: CeeKay

Don't be fooled by those rather vague (and lacking) promises. There's a LOT of stuff with DA2 that was wrong besides the reused art assets. At least one of those wrong things (permanent NPC armor, leading to almost all armor loot being worthless) have been confirmed as a feature they intend to keep for DA3.

I've tried to finish DA2 several times and I just can't force myself... Sad, I put in over 100+ hrs in DA1 with multiple characters and expansions and I just can't muster the strength to finish DA2. Such a shame

As a fan of both DAO, DA Awakening, and DA2, I feel like DA2 gets a bad rap. At this point I have played through both games and Awakenings twice, and while DAO is definately the better game, DA2 is still good and beats DAO in some respects.

DA2 cons:

1. The constant reuse of environments (seriously Bioware double or triple the level design staff)2. The enemies pop in like they are teleporting down from the Enterprise (It's lazy programming)3. No-overhead cam (this really wasn't an issue for me, as you can still pause the game, and issue individual commands)4. The choices you make really don't change the outcome that much. (Although try playing the game without picking up Isabella as a companion, it changes smaller stuff, but you still end up at the same place).

Pros

1. The graphics and art style are way better in DA2 as DAO is really dark and the textures are bad at times. 2. The speed of combat and the special effects associated with spells and abilities is much better in DA2. 3. The story, if you follow it, isn't about saving the world, but it definitely has a much more personal feel than the one in DAO.

So in the end I'm still really looking forward to DA3 and I hope they merge the good and get rid of the bad from both games.

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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

1. The graphics and art style are way better in DA2 as DAO is really dark and the textures are bad at times.

I guess I'll just never understand why some people feel this way. DA1's graphics were stunning in the overhead view, often passing into the realm of looking hand-drawn. The graphics in DA2 were bland, low in detail and utterly uninspiring. They looked rushed, like so much else in the game. Only character faces looked better, and not by enough to get anywhere close to compensating for the shitty graphics elsewhere.

Quote

3. The story, if you follow it, isn't about saving the world, but it definitely has a much more personal feel than the one in DAO.

This one depends on your origin in DA1, I suppose. I played the Human Noble origin, which made the story feel very personal all the way to the end. DA2 was personal during parts of the first chapter, and then it sort of fizzled away into the haphazard collection of randomness that was the "main story".

At least one of those wrong things (permanent NPC armor, leading to almost all armor loot being worthless) have been confirmed as a feature they intend to keep for DA3.

From the PAX Panel -

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Bioware is fully aware that players want to be able to customize their companionís armor and appearance, and it looks to be coming back. Briefly shown on the screen was a shot of Meryll in an entirely new suit of armor with head, chest, hand, and foot slots unlocked. I think it would be a real challenge to implement as DLC, so we may have actually seen a quick glimpse of DA3 or perhaps an unannounced expansion pack.

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"Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the same side." - The Big Bang Theory

Another summary of the Pax comments I saw suggested they are looking at a compromise solution to the NPC armor issue. So you may be able to swap to your hearts content but it wouldn't be reflected on the NPC's look, just their stats. Supposedly one of the reasons Bioware made the change in DA2 was because they didn't want to spend the time animating every armor for every NPC.

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Roger: And you should know, I have no genitals.Syndey: That's alright. I have both.

If that's true, it's even more inexcusable that characters' hands are incessantly clipping through their thighs in Dragon Age II. I don't mind much when a lock of hair or the edge of a weapon crosses through an armor plate during an emphatic animation, but when the default idle stance has obvious bugs, it reeks of sloppiness.

If that's true, it's even more inexcusable that characters' hands are incessantly clipping through their thighs in Dragon Age II. I don't mind much when a lock of hair or the edge of a weapon crosses through an armor plate during an emphatic animation, but when the default idle stance has obvious bugs, it reeks of sloppiness.

-Autistic Angel

Sure, but that what happens when you ship the sequel to a game that took several years to create just about exactly one year after the first game's expansion. The new Bioware is still adjusting to EA's "franchise installments" every year approach and the only way you accomplish that with an RPG is to make them smaller and figure out how to cut corners. Like limiting the art requirements with "innovative" approaches to inventory and reusing area assets.

So despite all the talk, the real question is whether that has changed. And we won't know until we find out when DA3 is due. If it's any earlier then fall 2012, then we can expect another thrown together project. And even fall 2012 is pushing it for something that is supposed to be of the scale they are hinting DA3 will be.

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Roger: And you should know, I have no genitals.Syndey: That's alright. I have both.

If that's true, it's even more inexcusable that characters' hands are incessantly clipping through their thighs in Dragon Age II. I don't mind much when a lock of hair or the edge of a weapon crosses through an armor plate during an emphatic animation, but when the default idle stance has obvious bugs, it reeks of sloppiness.

-Autistic Angel

I honestly never noticed this during my play throughs. Now I'm gonna have to load it up and look for it.

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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

If that's true, it's even more inexcusable that characters' hands are incessantly clipping through their thighs in Dragon Age II. I don't mind much when a lock of hair or the edge of a weapon crosses through an armor plate during an emphatic animation, but when the default idle stance has obvious bugs, it reeks of sloppiness.

-Autistic Angel

I honestly never noticed this during my play throughs. Now I'm gonna have to load it up and look for it.

I keep noticing this all the time in fantasy games. People wearing heavy armor almost always move in ways that makes the armor clip into itself. Stuff like metal armor on the lower arm clipping into the armor on the upper arm when it's moved around. It just goes to show that typical fantasy armor design has little to no root in reality, and that most people trying to wear something like that would end up skewering themselves on it.

So long as it's a separate team developing, and has co-op (which is sounds like it does), then I'm all for it.

But, honestly unlike my thoughts on Mass Effect, not sure if the series can really has mechanics worth putting into multiplayer. Although that may be because they changed the fighting to be more actiony in DA2.

Mass Effect 2 had pretty good shooting, and multiplayer shooters are common, so it going co-op multiplayer is reasonable. DA2's only comparable game is stuff like Diablo in terms of multiplayer, which was and will be wildly successful. I guess they want a cut of that action.

I think Mplay and splitscreen co-op would be a nice, and appropriate, addition to a Dragon Age game. My only concern with that for any 4-party RPG, is that it usually gets akward at times when only 2 are playing. I loved NWN2, but dealing with AI party members was a real pain at times, worsened by the fact that they didn't behave so erraticly when playing single-player.

Good to hear from 1 of the top execs that they're taking inspiration from the competition. One of the things that makes even DA:O a challenge for me to appreciate is that its such a closed/constrained world in comparison to the DA PnP. Not that any fantasy CRPG could ever really ever hope to match the openess of a PnP, but something more akin to explorable area found in an Elder Scrolls game is IMO a step in the right direction. I wonder if changing the approach to the world modeling now is in part due to the imminent release of a DA MMORPG?

Nah, this is EA/Bioware, they already have an MMO on their hands and won't be making another for a long time. Most companies have realized by now that the MMO market is both dominated by the big names, and plenty saturated by other smaller niche games by now.

This news bodes well though. It's EA and Bioware acknowledging that games that take a while to develop, but are large in scope, and still rake in the money.

All I want is the combat of DA2, slowed down by 1/2 to 1/4 and without so many respawning spawning enemies, combined with the varied locales and extensive plot of DAO. If they want to take something from Skyrim and add more places to explore, all the better.

I'm not sure I do. It seemed interesting at first, but after about 1/3 of the game I realized that every fight was almost exactly the same in terms of tactics and actions. My party was so specifically built to support each other that not doing things in the planned way was just ineffective. The idea was good, but it's one of those that turn out to not work so well in practice.

Nah, this is EA/Bioware, they already have an MMO on their hands and won't be making another for a long time. Most companies have realized by now that the MMO market is both dominated by the big names, and plenty saturated by other smaller niche games by now.

Sure, but don't forget they're owned by the gaming publisher that bought Mythic for DAoC and Warhammmer Onine and that also consumed the creators fo the original Ultima Online. I don't think EA has completely thrown in the towel for subscriber based MMORPGs yet, especially now that they have SWTOR launched and its looking to be very successful. The DA PnP RPG is still surprisingly in the top 5 sellers, despite not being complete, mostly due to the large popularity of the CRPG. Well Bioware might not be keen on it, I wouldn't be suprised if the $ hungry execs at EA didn't push them to do a DA MMORPG.

The thing is, a company can really only support one big MMO of the kind that is The Old Republic and WoW at a time.

I'm not saying they won't do something that subscription based, but they aren't going to do a traditional MMO since history has shown that either you go absolutely bonkers big with your MMO, or you end up going free to play and dwindle. You can't even go just high end like Warhammer Online, you have to go ultra, or plaid. No company can really put two of those out in such a short time, or support them both equally, and one inevitably cannibalizes the other's customer base.

You can see this in their other efforts, stuff like social games like DA Legends on facebook, or that crappy new command and conquer facebook game that recycles old artwork.

Quote from: TiLT on January 04, 2012, 06:15:08 AM

I'm not sure I do. It seemed interesting at first, but after about 1/3 of the game I realized that every fight was almost exactly the same in terms of tactics and actions. My party was so specifically built to support each other that not doing things in the planned way was just ineffective. The idea was good, but it's one of those that turn out to not work so well in practice.

Well of course I don't really mean the exactly the same combat, just refined and made more interesting and nuanced the way a proper sequel should.

DAO suffered from the same problem to me, but just took longer to get there. The combat itself could be a bit slow and lacking in player response.

Encounter design was also a big issue. DA2's encounter design was atrocious more often than not.

I love DA origins. I like almost all fantasy based RPG's, all the way back to stonekeep.

I couldn't even finish DA 2. I cannot put my finger on one thing as to why, but I just did not like it much at all.Pretty graphics, and I liked the action combat. But it just did not have the soul or something..

Seemed like a mass effect port or something, I game which I also do not like much.

I'm not sure I do. It seemed interesting at first, but after about 1/3 of the game I realized that every fight was almost exactly the same in terms of tactics and actions. My party was so specifically built to support each other that not doing things in the planned way was just ineffective. The idea was good, but it's one of those that turn out to not work so well in practice.

Part of the problem with DA2 though was that all the fights seemed to occur in the same places (or type of places) meaning you could use the same tactics over and over. Place the fights in indoor/outdoor environments that are not always the same and the tactics must change.

I'm not sure I do. It seemed interesting at first, but after about 1/3 of the game I realized that every fight was almost exactly the same in terms of tactics and actions. My party was so specifically built to support each other that not doing things in the planned way was just ineffective. The idea was good, but it's one of those that turn out to not work so well in practice.

Part of the problem with DA2 though was that all the fights seemed to occur in the same places (or type of places) meaning you could use the same tactics over and over. Place the fights in indoor/outdoor environments that are not always the same and the tactics must change.

As is usual in most RPGs I play (Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale were big exceptions), I found I didn't have to really change strategies in either Dragon Age games, so in my case, the surroundings didn't matter much.

I'm not sure I do. It seemed interesting at first, but after about 1/3 of the game I realized that every fight was almost exactly the same in terms of tactics and actions. My party was so specifically built to support each other that not doing things in the planned way was just ineffective. The idea was good, but it's one of those that turn out to not work so well in practice.

Part of the problem with DA2 though was that all the fights seemed to occur in the same places (or type of places) meaning you could use the same tactics over and over. Place the fights in indoor/outdoor environments that are not always the same and the tactics must change.

As is usual in most RPGs I play (Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale were big exceptions), I found I didn't have to really change strategies in either Dragon Age games, so in my case, the surroundings didn't matter much.

The one thing DA2 did that frustrated people but made tactics crumble was the spawning/parachuting of enemies into areas you considered cleared out. Half way through a fight you would clear out an area only to suddenly be attacked from there again. Unless you had a building at your back you could never be sure somebody wouldn't come from that direction.

The one thing DA2 did that frustrated people but made tactics crumble was the spawning/parachuting of enemies into areas you considered cleared out. Half way through a fight you would clear out an area only to suddenly be attacked from there again. Unless you had a building at your back you could never be sure somebody wouldn't come from that direction.

A building at your back offered no safety as enemies could climb out of windows, jump down from roofs, or even teleport right on top of you just to rub it in. In fact, there was no rational way to defend against waves as there was no logical pattern to where they appeared from. The best way to deal with them was to retreat to outside of the battlefield, forcing spawned enemies to approach from one direction. There are no limits to how idiotic the respawn mechanism was.

The one thing DA2 did that frustrated people but made tactics crumble was the spawning/parachuting of enemies into areas you considered cleared out. Half way through a fight you would clear out an area only to suddenly be attacked from there again. Unless you had a building at your back you could never be sure somebody wouldn't come from that direction.

A building at your back offered no safety as enemies could climb out of windows, jump down from roofs, or even teleport right on top of you just to rub it in. In fact, there was no rational way to defend against waves as there was no logical pattern to where they appeared from. The best way to deal with them was to retreat to outside of the battlefield, forcing spawned enemies to approach from one direction. There are no limits to how idiotic the respawn mechanism was.

I didn't hate the respawn mechanism but I did think it was implemented poorly.

Nope, I have a real "fool me twice" thing going with Bioware now. DA2 was an utter disappointment after the 1st one, and everything I've been hearing about the ME3 ending has pushed that onto my "buy it when it's cheap" backlist.

Waiting on the Witcher 2 now, and my gaming budget in the future will be going elsewhere. Bioware has sort of become a "once great house fallen into disrepair" for me.

- Day 1 DLC that feels central to the game, is included on the disc, and costs $10. - Tons of moral choices, but they're all strictly black and white. Shades of gray are for losers.- Half a million preorder packages offering you extra powerful equipment for buying from specific retailers. - Origin exclusivity. - High cost for the base game. - DLC that resolves important plot points. - Mobile apps, Facebook apps, Facebook Likes, Twitter subscriptions, email lists, all of which can have a dramatic impact on your single player game. - Show the single player fans who's the boss by denying them the best endings if they don't play multiplayer with all the cool guys. - So much merchandise that even manic collectors will feel overwhelmed. - A message at the end of the game reminding you to purchase DLC. - Required EA login. Extra bonus: If you lose your internet connection your DLC is disabled, because you're a filthy thief who doesn't deserve to be happy!- Much loved NPCs from earlier games in the series who suddenly change personality 100% and turn into the least liked NPC in the series. Oh, hello Anders! Didn't see you standing there, all sullen-like. - Characters and storylines that make absolutely no sense unless you've read all the books and comics and played all the DLC for the previous game, as well as watched all the marketing campaigns.

Hmm, suddenly this sounds much worse now that I've written it down. Maybe I'll have to reconsider...

I liked the npc interactions from DA2, and some of the quests were great, but other parts of the game were surprisingly bad. The waves of enemies popping out of thin air, and leaping out of windows and walls was stupid, and just one example. I understand creating the illusion that player decisions impact the game, but in the case of DA2, they didn't even bother with an illusion. The ending was the ending, regardless of what decisions were made.

I would like to see a better balance between the features of DA1 and DA2, but I wouldn't be surprised if DA3 turned out to be a first person shooter where I get to yell "Fireball" and "Cone of Ice" at my kinect.

So DA2 was a disappointment, but I did still enjoy it. It wasn't the worst thing, nor was it bad to me. Just in comparison to what they had done, it wasn't up to snuff. That being said, I hadn't played a CRPG on the PC in YEARS so on the Xbox I think the competition is lacking so my standards may be lower. I am playing Witcher on PC now and it is great. I do hope that DA3 is awesome and believe that Bioware will turn back to DA1 for the model to follow. It would only make sense.