FRINGE: 4.15 A Short Story About Love Trailer

A new trailer for the returning March 23 episode of Fringe offers new insight into “A Short Story About Love.” Watch it below.

Following the recent shocking revelations and emotional events, Peter weighs his options as the Fringe team investigates a killer targeting love in the all-new “A Short Story About Love” episode of FRINGE airing Friday, March 23 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX.

Comments

I think/hope they will end up together this episode and then just let it be nicely in the background, while the mythology continues. Even though the relationship is much better this season, we need to get back to the main mythology, michael massee is looking pretty awesome in that creepy make up :L

that’s no excuse for 25 episodes worth of soap opera level drama. they have literally altered the state of peter and olivia’s relationship EIGHT TIMES since the end of season two. that’s unacceptable B.S. Resolve it somehow and then save the universe.

No, they’re not. Cortexiphan, Observers, Parallel Universes, The Machine; they’re all part of the mythology, Peter and Olivia are two characters and a sub plot…that doesn’t quite know how to stay out of the main plot.

and they’re not going to end up together in the next episode because this is a different timeline. and for those of you saying that this is the same timeline, or that the timelines are going to merge: NO! That makes absolutely no sense. We know this can’t be our timeline because ITS HISTORY OF EVENTS IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. And you cannot merge two completely different histories together.

then kindly explain exactly how that would work, my friend. Actually think about it for a minute. There is literally no excuse that could make merging two separate histories of events palatable. The writers have already failed to all of the plot holes that the alt timeline opened in the first place, and it doesn’t seem like they plan to try at all. Now you want them to try screwing around with the cosmos even more? Just because its fiction doesn’t mean we have to blindly accept everything that happens. Suspending your disbelief that far is doing yourself a disservice.

it’s obviously difficult to be clear typing in a message board but I think you might be confused? anyway, this is Peter’s home, or timeline is what I think you are calling it. The histories are different because Peter was erased – did you ever see Back to the Future? Anyway, we (the audience) watched Peter disappear in front of the eyes of the Olivia and Walter that we have been following since episode 1/last season last episode. Are you suggesting that the show moved from that scene to an all together different universe? I don’t think so. They cannot merge the universes and they cannot “go back” the only thing is that the others may regain their memory of Peter like Olivia has done, so as far as the audience is concerned it would be like “going back”. Since we only see Peter interact with the main characters – from our POV it would become the same or the old timeline.
As far as Peter and Olivia changing 8 times? What???? I don’t even understand that comment….

“this is Peter’s home, or timeline is what I think you are calling it. The histories are different because Peter was erased”

This statement is a contradiction. it cant be his home if the histories are different. that’s my point. this is not the same timeline regardless of what people keep trying to say. it makes no sense to say that this timeline is “actually OUR timeline” because everything is different. And the use of the phrase “alt timeline” is not just “what i’m calling it”, it’s been explicitly stated in the show. when peter “dissapeared” in that scene at the end of s3, past events were changed i.e. we the viewers now observe a separate timeline where peter never made it past childhood because he drowned in the lake. we’ve entered a new continuity which peter has been mysteriously thrust into for whatever reason. people who were dead before are alive here and vice versa. These characters can’t all just “remember” because the events that we watched from the first three seasons didnt actually happen the same way for them.

as for the 8 times thing i should have clarified. What i mean when i say that is that the writers have thrown in 8 major twists to the P/Olivia thing in the last season and a half alone. ill even list them so you know where im coming from.

1. they kiss in over there part 2
2. liv gets replaced and brainwashed so she forgets peter
3. peter sleeps with fauxliv
4. liv returns and rejects him
5. they get back together in 3×14
6. peter gets spirited away or whatever in the season 3 finale and they’re separated again
7. olivia starts receiving memories and peter falls for it in the car
8. then he rejects her in the very next episode

and now that we know about the kid theyre supposed to have you can add a 9th point for when they will inevitably get together again. see at this point its completely predictable so why drag it out any longer? i was fine with it up through marionette but i feel like most of it has been largely mishandled or unnecessary. I’m not anti P/Olivia. i just think its become over saturated.

You’re missing a very important point, Kate: The Observer told Peter that he had a son with Fauxlivia. Henry was physical proof that Peter began accepted an Olivia who turned out to be a liar and a traitor.
The reason Peter broke up with Olivia in The End Of All Things was he learned about Henry and realized what would happen if he chose the wrong Olivia again.
If this Olivia is the wrong one, when the real Olivia learns the truth, it will completely kill whatever chance of a relationship that’s left; so it’s entirely understandable that he wants to be sure this time.

yeah but that’s not my problem lol. its more of a structural issue in terms of how the writers keep recycling the same major issue which is “will-they-won’t-they.” My issues with the details of the plot itself are secondary.

yeah but that’s not my problem lol. its more of a structural issue in terms of how the writers keep recycling the same plot point: “will-they-won’t-they.” My issues with the details of the plot itself are secondary. Regardless of how the present situation has driven them apart, its the very fact that its happened AGAIN that bothers me.

There are a lot of things in this show that even in sci-fi terms are absolutely ridiculous and yet it seems that a lot of people are ok with that. For a example think about Jacksonville and the details regarding to transfer of a whole building into the other universe carefully and I think you’ll understand what I mean. So I don’t think there is a need that everything in this show DOES MAKE SENSE IN LOGICAL TERMS.

Particularly when the show is based on vague inconsistent pseudo-science. They can do whatever they want (the soul magnets is proof enough). Personally, I don’t think there will be a merging of timelines. They’ll probably go with the palimpsest theory: this is the original timeline, but rewritten and only a few chosen ones, maybe only Olivia (and Peter) will remember the events from the previous seasons.

“this show is convoluted as hell.”
Kate you are right about that. Thats partially why we love it though. 🙂
fedorafadares, I see what you are saying. I believe they clued us in on how it works with that palimpsest theory that Walter explained, which is why I used the rewritable cd analogy.

I think it’s a great analogy. I think we are all confusing each other and can’t seem to agree on what to call this, and the idea of a CD makes perfect sense to me!

And the idea of Kate saying it can’t be the same because it’s different – I kind of get that too. It’s like saying the only way to know you’re “normal” is to stand beside people who are “abnormal” because they don’t conform to that standard form of behavior. So for the show, this present timeline/whatever…..let’s just call it the CD for sake of clarity…..I don’t know what its opposite is and what might happen to all of the other people and whether or not they will remember like Olivia (and I suspect Walter even though we haven’t seen explicit evidence of it) but I think this is a good start in understanding wtf is going on here.

I don’t always agree with you, Darth Kate, but I do agree with you on this point. I see the majority of fans talking about how this is the original timeline, and Peter just needs to accept that he’s already home, and Walter and Olivia need to regain their true memories, but I just can’t accept that, and I will be rather disappointed if that’s what happens. It doesn’t make sense that this could be the original timeline when so much is different. Regaining their memories isn’t going to change the fact that David Robert Jones is alive or that Nina Sharp raised Olivia. This is a new timeline because it is a timeline where Peter died as a child. September pretty much said this when he said, “The timeline has been rewritten. He was erased. And yet traces of him continue to bleed through.” The timeline is rewritten — it’s different. But for some reason, certain aspects of the original timeline have been bleeding through.

Even the palimpsest theory doesn’t explain it for me. The basic premise of this theory is that the original timeline was rewritten — it was recorded over by this new timeline. But that still leaves us with the fact that this is no longer the same timeline. It’s a new version of events with characters who are slightly different. No matter how you look at it, different timeline and different characters do not equal original timeline. And while there may be portions of that original timeline that are bleeding through (Peter’s reappearance, Olivia’s memories) that doesn’t make this the same, original timeline. It makes it the new timeline, with aspects of the original bleeding through.

The question is, is there a way to get back to the original timeline, or is it gone for good? Does Peter need to make this as close to his timeline as possible by helping those parts of the original timeline to bleed through as much as possible? But even if that happens, that will not make this the original timeline. It will still be a new, rewritten timeline, influenced by bleed through from the original timeline.

I do agree that Olivia is the key — as has been pointed out by others, she is the failsafe. Somehow, I think she’s the key to Peter getting back to the original timeline. Whether that’s in her regaining her memories and helping other parts of the original to bleed through, or she’s somehow meant to die before Peter will be able to return. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that right after warning Olivia that she’s “destined” to die, September then shows up in the lab to tell Peter that Olivia needs him and that he needs to be with the correct Olivia — that “This must be, and everything will be as it was intended.” How can he be with this Olivia and make things right, if she’s meant to die?

– are you saying this is an entirely new timeline, completely and utterly separate from the one that existed in S1-S3? as in you don’t think the palimpsest theory is an option and there has been a minor overwrite only but that there is an actual physical (or temporal, but still separate and not contingent on this one) place Peter needs to get to?

– as if Peter could get in the machine and it would actually take him to someplace different much in the same way the bridge takes one from the red verse to the blue verse (or now amber verse)? yet this current amber verse would still continue to exist and go on without Peter although its inhabitants would have memories of him from his brief stay?

– wouldn’t that actually make it an entirely different universe then? because the red verse was different from the blue verse but one could travel between them?

– this really confuses things, because if we go back to The Road Not Taken, Walter describes the alternate universe as really just a different set of choices….so what really is the difference then between the timelines and universes? The Observers even seem to use both words, maybe interchangeably.

– outside of the context of the show, we as viewers are anchored to the red/blue verses, primarily the blue verse for most of us – so wouldn’t it seem really odd for a whole season of the show to exist where only one of the main characters is really present….I mean, the bodies of the actors are present but they would essentially be playing different characters, and we would only get to see the characters we have been anchored with (aside from Peter) for three seasons at the very conclusion of the show when Peter gets back to wherever he is supposed to go?

– and if this is an entirely different timeline/universe and we are arguing that the palimpsest theory is not valid….then how can we explain amber Walter and Olivia having memories/dreams/visions of Peter before his appearance?

I’m just trying to get a general idea on everyone’s theory of this because it seems like there has been a lot of confusion simply about what to call this new timeline/universe/whatever and I myself am starting to get really confused.

“are you saying this is an entirely new timeline, completely and utterly separate from the one that existed in S1-S3?”

Yes. Same characters, similar situations, subtle differences, but different enough that it can’t be called the original.

“as in you don’t think the palimpsest theory is an option and there has been a minor overwrite only”

Not quite. The palimpsest theory is certainly an option and I agree that it’s significant. But the palimpsest theory only explains how there can be traces from the original timeline in this timeline. It does not mean that this is the original timeline. All it means is that aspects from the original timeline are filtering through into the rewritten timeline. And I agree with that.

Let me try to explain it this way: If I have an episode of Fringe recorded on a tape, and I choose to record over it with an episode of Once Upon a Time, it is now an episode of Once Upon a Time. I can’t say that it’s still an episode of Fringe, just because I used the same tape and it used to be an episode of Fringe. I recorded over it and changed what it is. Even if the sound of the Fringe theme song bleeds through so I can hear it while watching the episode of Once Upon a Time, it still is not the Fringe episode that was originally recorded on the tape.

Or, to further illustrate: If I have an episode of Fringe – say, Momentum Deferred – recorded on a tape, and I choose to record over it with another episode of Fringe – this time, lets choose Grey Matters – I now have a new episode of Fringe recorded. Momentum Deferred is effectively gone. The characters may be the same – it’s still Olivia and Peter and Walter. The general premise may be the same. But it’s a completely different story. And even if Olivia in Grey Matters started saying Olivia’s lines from Momentum Deferred because of bleed through from the previous episode recorded, it doesn’t mean that the episode I now have recorded is Momentum Deferred. Really, all it would do is make the Grey Matters episode really confusing. But in the end, there can be no question that the episode I now have is Grey Matters.

It’s the same thing with the timeline. Peter was erased. He never existed. The observers rewrote over the original timeline with a new timeline. Therefore, Olivia, Walter, and others all led different lives and became slightly different people. Events happened differently. And even though there are parts of the original timeline bleeding through (Peter’s reappearance and Olivia’s memories), it is still a different timeline. To get back to the original timeline, you would have to completely remove what was recorded over it. Or somehow jump into that timeline (in the same way he managed to jump into this timeline in the first place). Or he makes this timeline his own, accepting that the original one has ceased to exist and this new timeline with portions of the original timeline leaking through is as close as he will get to it. But I don’t think they could ever claim that this timeline IS the original timeline. Because it’s not.

what is this “shipper” word?.. I cant find it in the dictionary. does it imply that i recognize empathy and hypothetical humanity situations of the metaphysical roller-coaster-kind – or something more drastic.. like enjoying rom-coms where the puke in each others mouths..yes.

its not in the dictionary because it is a slang term with roots in online fandom and it implies that your only concern is “ZOMG TRU LUV 4EVA!” even when its incredibly repetitive and compromises the story. Which in this case, it does. This is not gripping character drama, its the result of the writers flip-flopping the central relationship over and over because they dont know any other way to keep the audience’s attention, and way too many people on this site are falling for it.

every time someone has mentioned willing suspension of disbelief on this site it’s been in completely the wrong context. There are limits to willing suspension of disbelief. that’s the point. it’s not a get-out-of-jail-free card for blatant glaring plot contrivances, it has to be earned by the writers through consistent conformity to their own in-universe rules and continuity. and it has nothing to do with the issues of P/Olivia.

Definitely agree with you there Kate. I just expect the inconsistencies because I think making any show (but especially ones this complicated and in depth) would damn near be impossible. Not a free pass mind you.

LoL, Despite what some may believe, I am a shipper of Peter and Olivia, I wanted them together from the start, but god, their romance has to be one of the most poorly written romances I have witnessed on TV. I blame the writers for making it what it is.

The romance was rushed and forced since “Jacksonville” to incredibly unbelievable “You belong with me” speech from “Over There” to what it is now. Fringe is best when its focuses on the science and mythology, I’m all for romance but not poorly written ones, and in Fringe’s case it is better left in the background. I want Peter and Olivia together, I just don’t actually want to “see” them together, because all the sappiness, gooeyness, mushiness, lovely-doveyless just makes me cringe.

I Hope that in the event of Fringe being renewed for season 5, The producers would get Peter & Olivia together by season’s 4 end, then leave the romance in the background and go out all guns blazing with mythology (cortexiphan, Observers, BBM, answers) in season 5.

I guess I am a shipper as well. I actually don’t have too much of a problem with the way they have handled the romance. I do know what you mean by the over mushiness. I remember he episode where Olivia became Bell at the end of the episode (was it Stowaway?). When they were holding hands and almost skipping down the school hallway. I really like their relationship (I don’t mind a great romance) but that was a bit much. It is a fine line between trying to show Peter and Olivia’s love and romance for each other in the midst of crazy cases and what not and being too much.

Well, from a shipper POV, this episode appears to have many sad facets. The producers and writers have worked very hard during the series at making sure P/O don’t quite make it over the threshold to “happily ever after.” This trailer certainly suggests that this will continue, but maybe “not everything is as it seems.”

It does look like Peter is in the machine at the end, with Olivia, sort of like when he returned in The Day We Died. And it sounds like Peter saying “Love” at the end.

I agree that it is probably not as it seems. I think this promo was tailored to make it seem like they are far from being together but in the end I think it will be different. Either way I am not worried because they are meant to be together anyway and what it meant to be will be!

For some reason, I don’t feel sad from this trailer. There is a cost to pay when you mess with time and such, but love will prevail; who knows what happens. Fringe writers love to jerk you around (mostly in a good way), so we just have to wait and see.

I’m just sad that it’s not Friday, March 23rd already. I believe it’s September’s voice that says ‘love’ at the end, or it could be the creepy guy.

Olivia/Peter relationship seems to turn into a Romeo/Juliet tragedy.. please give them a break! To love someone shouldn’t be so painful! I want them together/forever let them fight someone else side by side, heart by heart.. Fringe will be a great show anyway even more if finally they find a way to love each other.. no more Kate/Jack love after death please..

You are so right! We want A HAPPY PO RELATIONSHIP FINALLY !it was so painful to watch them suffer over the last 3,5 seasons and being almost immediately torn apart once they got together so Thats ENOUGH!I have the feeling that Fringe is the only show where happily ever after could make the storytelling genius -Peter and Olivia TOGETHER fighting for the 2 univereses!So let them simply be happy PO !eh…….to much heartbreak is to much!:)

From the early seasons, there’s been directives toward that tale. The scarecrow in NoDO, The Tin-man project in Fracture, If I Only Had a Brain playing in The Firefly, the lab conversation in WtW, and most pointedly, Walter saying that he’s unable to posit that we don’t all exist on the same level of consciousness, that we’re not all mere figments of imagination. Oh, not to mention the underlying concept that dreams shape how we perceive our reality.

By the very last episode, I’m hoping we finally get to see just who’s behind the curtain of this consciousness, or subconsciousness as it may be. lol

No, sorry. I’m not going to play your little game. I am, however going to point out that Romeo and Juliet’s relationship was completely void of substance. Romeo spends the entire beginning of the story whining about Rosaline until he sees Juliet across a room and instantly falls in tru luv with her even thought they’ve never so much as spoken. Meanwhile, Mercutio (the voice of reason in the story) tells him to stop being such a twit. Later when Mercutio is killed by Tybalt (thus symbolizing the abandonment of reason) everything goes to hell. That’s my literary analysis, and I’m not going to argue it with you.
I’d also like to point out that the romeo/juliet comparison is also used by twilight fans to justify bella and edward’s realtionship all the time, so in light of that i hope you would understand why its not a good comparison for fringe.

I don’t personally agree with it being a good comparison. It’s not a comparison I would have made. But it is valid. Just because Twilight fans use it doesn’t make it unsuitable for Fringe.

You could make some valid comparisons….for starters with them being “star-crossed.” I think Peter and Olivia definitely meet this. How else do two people from different universes meet? Not to mention, Dylan’s comment below is totally tongue-in-cheek…..but it could end like R & J.

You have two people who go through hell just to be together – chaos, destruction and tragedy ensue, but all the best traits are brought out in the characters in the end…much like in any tragedy. If Olivia does indeed have to die throughout the course of the show…much like she did (or really didn’t) in TDWD to save the universes then her tragic end does actually have some merit. Depending on where you fall with the timeline/universe rewrite, we could say Olivia has already been sacrificed in a way to save the universes. Blue Olivia died (sort of, in the future) and that altered things to the Amber Verse where at least the universes both still exist and can get along (best traits of all).

I said this over at Seriable, but I really like the opposite dynamic this season of P and O’s relationship. It’s a role reversal, so to speak, in terms of who’s ball in who’s court. Last season, it was Peter reaching out, trying to make Olivia see that he’s there, this season, it’s transitioned to him being the one unobtainable. Gotta admit, I’m excited to see Olivia’s P.O.V on being on the bad side of rejection. It’s just nice that we get to see this side of her inner turmoil play out on screen blatantly. I’m anticipating some profound progression on her character’s part.

Can’t say I’m not a shipper, and I can’t say I’m a humble nomad, but you know, at first, I wasn’t sold on P and O, and now I feel like their relationship is an integral part of the show. It took me a while to get to that point, but the more I turned it over in my head, the more I understood and appreciated it.

Arguably, love is the main drive between what choices our characters make and why, and how that effects the world around them. In fact, I’m a firm believer that it’s the main force behind every aspect of this show. It was love that started all of this to begin with, a father’s love for his son, that caused a universe to break, and ultimately signify the destruction of another.

I think even the non-shippers can’t justifiably argue that it was mere ego, mere hubris, that Walter crossed worlds to save Peter. Love based that hubris, it was the foundation. No, it wasn’t the mushy-romantic chick-flick happily-ever after with unicorns and rainbows kind, that you get when two protagonists form a connection, but none-the-less, if it wasn’t for the big bad ‘L’ word, I honestly think this show would be a skeleton without a spine.

I can’t say either, that I’m fond of overtly sappy romance, in fact, it makes my mouth taste a lil like the acid in my stomach, so thankfully, I haven’t yet found, in my own opinion, Peter and Olivia’s relationship to resemble the profoundly cheesy depictions described in the novels my aunt keeps on her bed-side table. It’s simply what it is, an attraction that verges on more then the physical, it hinges too on the emotional, the conceivable, and even the spiritual, so in essence, it molds how the characters see their lives, and consequently, how they act within them, as does any realistic relationship from what I’ve experienced.

That being said, I don’t see Olivia’s ‘flailing teenage girl’ reaction to Peter as being a regression of character, but a mere re-animation, if you will, a new study of how she is because of how she feels. We’ve just never seen this side of her so exposed under such close examination.

So in the end, I’m a satisfied fan, because and again, this is my opinion, the roller-coaster of angst, the push and pull of can they make it out unscathed together, rubs me in a much more pleasurable way then the will-they-or-won’t-they that runs a muck on every other network program.

That’s why I think an episode like this, with a story and title like this, is really a heartfelt dedication to the core of what this show is about.

Agreed. I think this opposite effect is really what makes this Olivia seem so different too. Also, as you said, her growth as a character is something that’s been really important, and letting people in and being vulnerable has never been Olivia’s strong suit. I’m not sure what will end up happening when this universe/timeline situation is resolved, but I’m pretty sure this character growth within Olivia (and the others, of course) is one of the main concerns on the road to it.

Great post Rae. You eloquently conveyed my feelings on the situation as well. I have always felt that the most important things in shows like Fringe and Lost have been the relationships, how they react to each other and the love between the many characters. Excellent!

Off topic, but while i’m in this lousy mood, is anyone else annoyed by the fact that olivia can’t use her powers without peter around. The symbolic implications are kind of concerning. It’s like she’s “powerless” without her man or that she can’t achieve her “true potential” without a boyfreind. I get that cortexiphan is hinged on her emotional state, but why should proximity to peter matter. She still loves him the same whether he’s next to her or miles away. It’s like i get what the writers are going for, but the unintended implications are a bit misogynist.

No I get what you’re saying. I think you have a good point. I do think that she probably can use her powers without Peter necessarily around, but Peter is the one person who she feels the strongest (or most profound as Dr. J has said) emotion about so naturally it works best when he is around. However we saw in The Day We Died that she was using her powers with great control and at will (although I think Peter was still around somewhere). I think when she gets control of her powers she won’t necessarily need Peter to use them.

She’s not powerless without Peter, she has used her powers before and he wasn’t around. She needs some kind of power source/help of sorts, though, be it other Cortexiphan subjects, a massive dose of Cortexiphan or the combination of fear and love. Peter spurs that fear/love feeling, but before the writers dropped that plot, they gave some hints about Peter working as some kind of power source, which explains how his presence helped with disarming the bomb in S1.

This time, Olivia used Peter as a tool to escape from her kidnappers, failing all the other options. I don’t see how that’s misogynistic, when she was using him as a tool. Like she’d use a ladder if she’s not tall enough.

Of course, some people would call this “need for Peter for her powers to work” (although that’s not what has been shown) misogynistic, but then I could call the fact that he cannot be a moral human being or find a home without her very sexist, too. The fact is that the writers have made them dependent on each other to be “complete”.

I find it more problematic, that the Observers are all white and male, not to mention that Fauxlivia was humanized thanks to a pregnancy.

No, that is a good point. I was thinking that same thing after I posted a response above.The fact that they are interdependent on each other; for emotional as well as other things. A good example of this is the machine; Peter could operate it but Olivia was the crowbar to open it up for him. A great dependence upon each other and a great love for each other, not a one way street.

well i could go off on another tirade about why its kind of pointless for peter to be the key to the machine in the first place, but i wont. I feel like the writers are trying too hard to justify a more significant role for peter in the story rather than just letting him be a helper/love interest. There’s really no reason for it, but that ship has already sailed.

and before all the peter fem-bots show up, my problem is not with peter himself, but in how the writers handle his character. putting so much focus on him for such an extended period of time bogs down the narrative, as we have seen, and distracts from the fact that the story already had a perfectly reasonable, and more thoroughly developed, protagonist. People seem to be getting the impression that i am completely against romance in a story and absurd. I am totally fine with it as long as it does not devolve into repetitive melodramatics. This show didn’t start off as being solely about P/Olivia, and regardless of what the writers intend now, they began by implying a totally different objective. This jarring change of gears is why i and others have such strong objections. It isn’t what was advertised for two whole seasons and its not what we signed on for. I have no problem with the concept of liv and peter being together. I just want them to resolve it and stop jerking us around.

The people who are complaining for the same reason i am. this site is saturated with shippers. don’t think that just because everyone here likes to gang up on me for not conforming to their passive view of entertainment that all other fringies share such devotion to P/Olivia.

‘We” would be the people who prioritize quality over specific content, and who became invested in this show for everything that was before season 4, and for everything that didn’t simply focus on two characters who unconvincingly joined in a further unconvincing relationship.

Ah, but only a few more weeks until Game of Thrones; a show with writers who know what to prioritize.

No. When you express a personal opinion on a blog, unless you’ve been chosen to represent a collective, you talk for yourself and yourself alone. Otherwise you’re just trying to support your personal opinion with numbers.

Honestly, I think the whole aspect is a metaphor to how, in human relationships, we need each other to progress, and learn and be wizened. Ultimately, in the end, we need someone we can depend on to encourage us to keep striving, to make it through when there’s no surface to the bottom of the dark place that’s made you it’s prisoner. In the end, it’s that connection that allows us survival.

Preferential viewpoints and the illogical logic of mythology television aside, I can honestly say without the people I love, I’d have been bitten by the boom-boom machine a long while ago.

And if the writers are, like the say, trying to get us to familiarize ourselves with the human and humbling aspect of all the ‘why’s’, then for me at least, it’s working.

Again, she doesn’t “absolutely” need him, she needs extra help, be it Cortexiphan, other Cortexiphan kids, Peter, etc… Peter was easier to acquire at that moment and she manipulated Jones to kidnap him. However, if you want absolutely feel the need to make it an issue, don’t let me stop you 😉

I’m sorry but you’re bullying people around here. Just because one is a shipper doesn’t mean that this person doesn’t have a brain, doesn’t understand what is a good love story or are stupid and doesn’t care to the mythology. So please, if you are finding some condescension it’s because you’re being rude in the first place.

and there’s also such a thing as getting too defensive and taking comments about a show to be personal for no reason. pretty much everyone has moved on from this dispute already. I have a perfectly civil discourse going on with shidey 17 a little farther down but you keep complaining after like 72 hours. relax.

Would you like us to petition for the construction of your soapbox on a more prominent area of the site?

We all have insights to add about the show, and I love coming to this site to read others’ views, opinions, theories, etc. Even yours, although I don’t always agree with them.

But please, have the courtesy to respect the opinions and viewpoints of your fellow contributors. If you don’t agree with something, please state that and feel free to back up your argument with evidence.

Then by all means, please let me just come out and say exactly what I think. You are rude and narrow-minded. You attack other people just because they don’t agree with you.

You have good insights into the show, and I enjoy reading them when you’re civil – but most of the time I find you incredibly hard to swallow because of your negativity and arrogance. If you don’t agree with someone, say so, but don’t act like you’re the end all when it comes to thinking and talking about the show.

Yeah, but there’s a specific relationship between cortexiphan, trial subjects, and Olivia’s power.

Where’s the connection with Peter?

Don’t say love/fear, because that should have been triggered with Nina almost immediately – and she had cortexiphan given to her as well. In all likelihood, this may have to be chalked up to the writers doing the whole “we said it and so it is – don’t question us” thing again, like they did with the machine.

Well we don’t know at what point she knew Nina was really alt-Nina. Maybe she knew from the beginning. Or maybe she just knew from her “memories” that it would probably work with Peter, since it had in the past, so she wanted a failsafe type option.

I think it’s less that she needs Peter than she just needs to believe in herself. It’s possible he did trigger something in Ability that allowed her to disarm the bomb, but it’s also equally possible that she was able to do it because she became even more determined when Peter refused to leave. It wasn’t just her life on the line anymore – she had to save them both and this gave her the extra little boost of confidence or adrenaline or whatever it is she needs.

Actually, we know EXACTLY at what point Olivia realized that “Nina” was, in fact, Meana. The moment when Meana told her “and then you called be Nina”. That was her one and only slip because she didn’t have enough details about Olivia’s life with our Nina.

What I find extremely dissapointing is that the writers seem to value Olivia’s love for Peter more than for her “almost” mother. I’m speaking about all that time when Jones was torturing Nina and Olivia had yet to know it was an act. Yes, her memories was being slowly replaced at that point BUT she did say that she still remembered. She just didn’t have the same emotional connection.

Here’s what annoys to no end. Apparently seeing a person you know is your foster mother (don’t feel it, ok, but understand it clearly, plus Olivia did have some sort of weird emotional connection with Nina even before season 4) being drilled and then tortured on an electric chair is not enough for Olivia to trigger the required emotional response. This is b u l l s h i t, my friends. Forgive me my language.

“Yes, her memories was being slowly replaced at that point BUT she did say that she still remembered. She just didn’t have the same emotional connection.”

It is because Olivia lacked the ’emotional’ connection to Nina that she couldn’t activate her abilities. If you think about it, it’s not just any emotional reaction that activates Olivia — I thought it was a combination of fear and love which, I guess, your boy Peter brings out in her. 🙂

Look, I don’t love the notion that Olivia needs Peter to activate her abilities (although, I believe she’s used them without Peter before), but if that’s how the writers choose to illustrate the great love between Olivia and Peter, so be it. I’m a shipper, so I love a good, at times, over the top demonstration of true LOVE!

By the way, I’m loving the passion folks are expressing here . . . DK, you are taking no prisoners. 🙂

See I took this whole scene as Olivia either looking for confirmation that it was indeed an alternate Nina or that Olivia knew she wouldn’t have the memories necessary to activate. And it’s hard to tell because at that point even we didn’t know for sure who she was.

It wasn’t that she doesn’t have true feelings for Nina as her adoptive mother, but the overwrite of her memories made it impossible for her to have the depth of emotions necessary. Like she told Walter in ABHB….it felt to her like blue verse Olivia’s memories were real and Amber Liv’s memories were more like a dream.

She knew it would work with Peter because of the strength of the new memories. Now, I can see everyone’s point of view on the annoyance of Peter being necessary. But we don’t know for sure that’s the case. We have seen Liv use her powers alone. Peter has just happened to be there for activation a couple times, as this is the love story the writers are focusing on. And if you look at my above post, you’ll see why I don’t really think Peter is necessary anyway.

I imagine if we had a scene where Rachel or Ella were in jeopardy, Liv would be able to activate right away. We just see her more with Peter because they are always in work situations together….we’d have no other reason to see Liv in a dangerous work type situation with someone else who she has a deep enough relationship with to prompt activation.

People get defensive because even if you don’t mean it that way, you come across as very dominant and pushy with your own opinion. Of course you’re allowed your opinion and I’m sure there are plenty of other fans who agree with you, but there are also legitimate fans who don’t agree with you and they’re not all “shippers”. I never considered myself a “shipper” but judging from your posts here I’m sure you’d categorize me as one just because I don’t necessarily agree with your opinion. I for one still have hope that the writers know what they’re doing, not giving up on them just yet. If the show ends without a satisfying resolution/conclusion, that’s when I’ll be disappointed. Even though this season started off a little wonky, some of the later episodes were really good and that’s why I think we shouldn’t expect the worst when it comes to the remaining episodes of Fringe.

“shipper” is not an insult, bro. even I shipped p/olivia before it got silly. its just a term for people who support a relationship. my issue is that at his point i think the relationship has turned to crap. i haven’t attacked any individuals and i dont mean anything to be personal. i just get the sense that people are getting so close to the show that every time i attack IT they take it as a personal assault.

that’s not what i meant lol. im making an argument about an unintended implication so it doesnt even matter that much anyway. it just exacerbates my irritation towards the direction of the show is all.

All that is simply comes as a consequence of all that has happened. I have felt betrayed on multiple occasions this season by a show that I had invested three prior years in and the writers I once trusted show no signs of acknowledging their mistakes.

This show earned my praise, then it earned my criticism. Has it earned my forgiveness? Not yet.

Are you all taking this as Olivia’s new memories are slipping, or her old memories?

When I initially saw it, I was thinking that with Peter gone, her “new” memories of them together and of the cases they worked on in the original timeline were fading. But now I’m thinking she’s saying that her “old” memories are fading and she’s being left with “our” Olivia’s memories. Does that sound right? She says she wants to just go back to being who she was because she can’t be with Peter now that he’s gone/doesn’t think she’s his Olivia?

I like the palimpsest theory. To me, it’s the best explanation of what’s happening, and I don’t think the writers would just use it in a random episode if it didn’t have some greater meaning.

As for Olivia’s memories, who knows? At this point, I think one theory is just as good as the other – we just don’t know where we’re going with this. But one thing that nags at me is the fact that the bridge exists in the amber verse. I know the explanation is that the machine did it, but I think it was Peter through the machine. I say this because of his meeting with September where September spoke of Peter’s sacrifice.

If the palimpsest theory does end up playing out , though, would everyone’s memories end up being rewritten?

Sorry parts of that seem really unclear. What I’m trying to get at is that I don’t think Peter is necessarily out of his universe/timeline but that he overwrote the timeline when he created the bridge an this is why he can exist in the timeline and the others may eventually be able to remember him.

Here is my thought: Olivia is undergoing The Palimpsest Syndrome, where the layers are being scrubbed (erased?) and things which were buried when Peter was erased (scrubbed?) from BlueWorld are coming to the surface. Or, given the apparent predilection the writers and producers have for making sure that P/O take FOREVER to get together, Amber Olive is having her memories overwritten.

Now, about Kate’s comments: When the show started, there were initial “glimmers” of interest between the characters, even though Joshua Jackson and Anna Torv may not have wanted that at the outset. This show is about relationships first–Walter and Peter, Peter and Olivia, Walter and Olivia, Olivia and Broyles, Olivia and Sam Weiss, everybody and Astrid, Walter and Nina, Olivia and Nina, Peter and Nina (in season one she told Peter that they would go horseback riding when he was a boy), Olivia and Charlie (putting a plug in here for bringing back Charlie Francis), and so on. But the three main characters of the show have overarching relationships with each other. So, of course the interplay between P/O will be big. I am not necessarily a benchwarming shipper, but all TV shows have, at their core, the relationships between the characters.

Additionally, since early in the show, the producers and writers hinted that there was lots to learn about Peter, based on Olivia’s exchange with Walter. That was a type of foreshadowing indicating that Peter may loom equally-large on a stage loaded with large characters. I think if you took Olivia away, as they did Peter the first few episodes this season, there would be as much unhappiness as there was when Peter was not there, if not more. Same with Walter.

I find Kate to be thought-provoking and incisive, and Kate brings a lot to this blog. I may disagree with her POV on some things, but I understand her approach.

Personally, I like the aspect of Peter being Olivia’s ‘power source’, as it maybe be. This notion, in itself, I find to be the most intriguing degree of their relationship. Apart from the ‘when’ and ‘hows’ of Olivia’s powers, the fact that their augmented to such a degree from the neuro-chemical vast of what she feels for Peter, is, in my opinion, the deepest way we can see that she loves him. Even when she wasn’t conscious of it, she’s a connection to him. At one time, it was the platonic companionship of loyal comrades, and now, it’s the delicate stance of a lover.

Understandably, there was a lack of ‘romantic connection’ in season one’s Ability because the natural progression of forced circumstance hadn’t directed our characters to explore that side of their loyalty to one another yet. That being said, it may not be with a strictly kissy-kissy lovey-dovey note that Peter triggers Olivia’s bursts of cortexa-power. At that time, it could merely have been his presence that peaked the super-human out of her.

It’s possible Peter’s whole back-story hasn’t been told yet. Maybe there’s something we don’t know that’s pivotal to the foreground, but hiding in the back. This is the land of the Fringe, so maybe whatever part of her brain that evolution would have stunted, recognizes Peter’s perception and therefore, bends reality. Over-reaching? Probably, but it’s just another theory pulled out of a well used hat.

Unexplored history aside, I do believe that the point of what we saw recently was self-explanatory, that the grandeur of Olivia’s feeling’s exacerbates the scope of what she’s capable of, and in this case, those feelings are toward her love for Peter.

I didn’t feel, in any way, it was an idiom for how ‘weak’ she is, as a dignified person, without him. Clearly, her personality is gun’s blazing, and takes no prisoners. She was a straight shooter in every dignified aspect of her life sans Peter, and she’s just as straightforward with him. The only aspect she wasn’t so good at before him, (in her own words) was the love one. And even after, I’m pretty sure she left an unconscious Peter at the hospital to try and save the world from zapping itself to bits. I don’t know about you, but I think that rates a little high on the determination scale. Was it tough for her? You bet. Impossible. Nope. Why? Cause at the end of the day, she’s still Olivia-fraking-Dunham, but just, deservedly, happier. I’d assume, if her ‘true potential’ is a lesser version of her stubbornly valiant self with Peter’s distance, she wouldn’t still be victoriously telling all the bad guys to burn in hell-fire.

The difference of his proximity, is how much more she can begin to recognize the things in herself when he’s beside her. THAT is what I think the metaphor is here. Through her four years with him, he’s helped clue her in to who she is, not because she can’t be a whole person without him, but because he has a way of attuning her to the things she didn’t think herself capable of. Could she have found those things out on her own? Maybe. Hard to say, because without Peter, she wouldn’t have digested them in all the same ways, and maybe all those ways made it easier for her to take. And the pretty bow on this package wants to say that Peter didn’t make her who she is, he made her a better version of who she already was. Superpower-ly so.

The point, of it all, IMO, is just how humanizing Peter is to our Livia, and how in recognizing that, she’s able to see herself in every shade of light.

Strangely intriguing if you think about it, really.

It’s the context of her emotional, human connection with him that causes her homo-superior ability…an intentional irony?….Oh, probably….

“Through her four years with him, he’s helped clue her in to who she is, not because she can’t be a whole person without him, but because he has a way of attuning her to the things she didn’t think herself capable of.”

Another great post Rae. I believe Joshua Jackson said the same thing in an interview this season. He himself believes that the Peter character is there to reflect and be a mirror for the other characters, especially Olivia. He said that this (Fringe) is and has been Olivias story and he is there to be her partner and reflect them. To be exactly what you said; to show her how other people see her and how she can see to be a better version of herself: something she never believed she could be.

I just think Season 2 was SO good, because the main human relationship (Walter und Peter) was so much more concincing and moving and well done than Peter and Olivia in Seasons 3 and 4.

I like all Seasons of Fringe (2 and 3 the most, perhaps), but 3 and 4 really suffered from the way they handled Peter and Olivia.
Just give us an adult relationships and not a “great romance” (Wyman) that either makes Olivia look like an unhappy teenage girl (S3) or gets completely ridiculous with Peter changing his mind every episode (S4).

Second half of season 2 until the end of the first half of season 3; the show’s best. Coincidentally, this was the period before the Peter/Olivia relationship was blown out of proportion and became the focus of every episode and even the focus of the machine and the war…

I’m loving this season so far. Every episode since “Back To You’ve Never Been” has been awesome, even Forced Perspective. I can understand complaints pre-Wallflower, but I don’t know why some people (looking at YOU, Darth Kate) are hating on the turns Peter and Olivia’s relationship have taken this season. Everyone knows they’ll get together in the end.
“All good stories start with once upon a time, and they end with happily ever after.”

Olivia confesses her love for Peter, they get together……but wait, it’s not Olivia…….Olivia comes back but blames Peter………Peter still has feelings for other Olivia……fate of the universe depends on which Olivia Peter chooses…..Peter chooses our Olivia…..Peter loses Olivia in the future……Peter returns to his Olivia…..Peter disappears and finds himself in another world but without his Olivia……Peter thinks Olivia has returned (via her memories) and accepts this reality……the next week he changes his mind…

It’s like watching Die Hard or 24, where with each subsequent experience the impact of it is lessened as is the significance of everything that came before it.

What significance can anything with Peter and Olivia have when it’s likely next week they’ll get back together and the week after they’ll once again be apart?

People should be as suspicious of the stability of their relationship as people were suspicious of the likelihood of anyone really staying dead in post-season 1 Heroes.

Now, this is all without mentioning how the relationship was executed; altogether, that’s a whole other problem.

Hey I agree it wasn’t the best episode ever but I think it gets such a bad rap because back to where youve never been was supposed to be the finale. If it would have played out like that I think people would not have been so harsh on it. It did give us that cool ending with Nina dosing Olivia with Cortexiphan. Although it did gives us that Lincoln and Olivia mini date if you will. Didn’t like that a whole lot.

To be honest I dont feel that way. I feel its the worst fringe episode EVER, and im never watching it again, actually i imagine i will skip atleast 4.01,4.02,4.03,4.04 and 4.07 when i get the DVD. I know some of those episodes are really good (4.02, 4.04) but i the alternate timeline stuff is just too much for me and WAY too much lincoln! :L

JM – I don’t know if i’d pass on all of the episodes you’ve listed, but man, anything with lots of Lincoln are so painful for me to watch — most definitely Wall Flower will be shelved. 🙂

Also, other than Lincoln Lee, I’m okay with how they are handling the NT experiment. I like this Olivia’s openness which also addresses how she is dealing with the current Peter situation. I think this Olivia, in terms of emotionally, is how ‘our’ Olivia was evolving to since her union with ‘master’ Peter. IMHO

Yes i would agree with that, shes merging to become the best of amberolivia and originalolivia. Adding to my previous comments, i also believe 4.03 is one of the worst episodes in fringe history, its only saving grace being john nobles performance.

Yes, it was no where near the best that Fringe has to offer, it was definitely average.

But, I do think it will be appreciated in the long run, when we can watch Season Four in its entirety without breaks, as it was intended to be seen.

I also love the ‘real’ element to the episode. What I mean is, Olivia wakes up and walks to the chemist, I don’t know. I just love when we see characters do seemingly ‘trivial’ things, it makes the show more real for me.

Wallflower was a nice breather before the intense Back To Where You’ve Never Been.

It bothers me that people seem so determined to attach their egos to this show. Any kind of criticism is immediately flamed rather than objectively considered. Criticism is not whining and the idea that everything in a story should just be accepted and that we should just “go with it” and “trust the writers” is wrong. That exact attitude is why crap like jersey shore or transformers or twilight become widespread phenomena and it drives me nuts when people apply that same attitude to things that actually can be really good like fringe. Fiction is not infallible. Everything is meant to be criticized otherwise it cannot be expected to improve. I don’t care about the writers or their “vision.” I care about my all time favorite show devolving into a soap opera. Like i mentioned before, they’ve changed the state of the P/Olivia relationship 8 times in less than two seasons and i honestly cannot see how anyone finds that acceptable.

But don’t you think to a certain point that we need to accept what’s going on with the show? I mean, I felt really lost at the beginning of the season and didn’t really like where I thought the show was going. I felt out of touch with the characters and didn’t see how the show could improve. Am I entirely happy with where it’s gone this season? No. But have I learned to live with it so far? Yes, for the most part. And I really do think the show is getting better – and I think this is because they have been (re)developing the relationships between the characters so they feel familiar to us again.

And part of criticism is to suspend your own thoughts and feelings about something and be able to think about it from a neutral standpoint, so even if you don’t like what’s happening on the show, you can at least look at it from that neutral standpoint and see if it makes sense within the rules it’s defined for itself. And I would say that Fringe is staying within these confines, which for the show, are incredibly broad.

I totally get that it’s annoying how they’ve seemed to go back and forth with Peter and Olivia, but they’ve also done that in several episodes with Walter and Peter, and not just this season.

I don’t think many of us are saying that the season hasn’t been controversial, or that it has gone in a direction we would have predicted or would have chosen given the chance, but we have no control over where the show is going, so I suggest we enjoy it for what it’s worth, while we still have the chance. I’m not saying we can’t lament the craziness that’s gone on, but ultimately, we have no say over what happens on the show so there’s no point in obsessing over what we can’t control.

Thanks for your post. I have a couple counterpoints though. I do accept whats going on in the show. im fully aware that there’s nothing i can do about it, however that doesn’t mean i have to like it and i am certainly going to continue making my issues known. I disagree on it staying within the confines of its own rules and in other threads i’ve already put too many lengthy posts into describing every detail of why the alt timeline thing has opened up a bunch of plot holes, but suffice it to say that the writers expect us to blindly go along with too much.
Look, my perspective on this show is largely due to a larger perspective on entertainment as a whole. If no one complains loudly and often, then showrunners have know way of knowing that some people are taking issue. So even if its just me complaining and they never even become aware of it, i still think its important to do so, even if all it ends up accomplishing is making more defensive fans angry.

I agree some things haven’t been handled the best. I give the writers credit because they have taken on this huge mythological beast and I can’t imagine how they could reasonably tie everything up without an occasional plot hole. I do think they’ve done a good job so far, though.

I also think a lot of the criticism comes because it takes them so long to finally explain some of the elements of the show. I mean, some of us have been watching this show since 2008 wondering what the hell an Observer is. And now almost 4 years later we finally get an answer. Sort of.

And I’m glad they’ve left some of these things open. That’s what I always liked about Lost, too. Much like this board, I could sit around with friends and argue about what meant what and so on – I’m thankful we have that…..even if some blood has been shed over the last couple days 🙂 It’s kept us all going for a few more days as we wait for the next episode.

And finally, just to address one of your other points…..I really don’t see people here as defensive. I see everyone as passionate and invested. Some of us take one route in how that comes to the surface. I don’t think I fall into that shipper category, but I’m an eternal optimist. I’ll root for Peter and Olivia as much as for the salvation of the universes. I’ll also trust the writers and always look for some sort of explanation for what they’ve done. Even when they’ve gone and screwed things up on their own – I’ll take it upon myself to find a logical answer/reason for why it occurred. You were right in a post above when you said shows like Jersey Shore and whatever else just don’t inspire that kind of thinking from their viewers. Even at its worst, Fringe is still a thought-provoking, intellectual show.

Part of why I feel the need to defend the show (but not necessarily the writers) is because I love the show so much. I want it to continue so badly that I get on board with these ridiculous twitter campaigns and promote the show on my facebook. So I have to try to explain away as much as I can because there are true critics out that who don’t want the show to succeed, and I have to prove to them why they should watch it anyway, because it’s so good.

I don’t take offense to the way you criticize the show. I think it’s warranted – but like I said above, I think we should always first look to the evidence of the show to see if a proper explanation has been given, even if we don’t agree with it 100%. I also think that sometimes we have to bear with what seem to be plot inconsistencies and give them some time to play out in the larger context. I really do feel that some of the plot inconsistencies from the past have been explained.

implying that i’m not “looking to the evidence” isn’t really helping you here but im not saying that to instigate anything, i promise. i am looking at the evidence. i dont like the rate at which they choose to resolve the plotlines and i think that a lot of the choices that they have made with those plotlines were poor. i love the show too, more than any other show ive ever watched, but i refuse to be pandering about it. if the writers do something stupid, im going to jump on it, and from what you’ve said, i can tell you’re not going to agree with most of those opinions anyway, so we might just want to call a truce. If their own plot is too much for them to handle then they shouldn’t have willingly chosen to make it so convoluted. every aspect of the plot is intentionally written by someone and that makes it their responsibility if it ends up not making sense or being unfulfilling. plots don’t have to be immensely complex to be good, especially in a character driven show like finge. im done bearing with the writers. that’s my point. they’ve lost that commitment from me. even if the season four finale pulled some twist that somehow managed to make the last season and a half totally relevant, it still wouldn’t forgive the fact that they dragged us around. this is supposed to be entertainment and i am getting to the point where i am just no longer entertained, just frustrated.

well at risk of being spoilery, all the possible endings to the series are pretentious nonsense and a large number of fans are petitioning the production company, bioware, for downloadable content that would have better ones. Bioware had promised that the choices that we made in the first two games would be significant to the conclusion of the final installment, but they are not, and the final “plot twist” is contradictory to itself. The center of the conflict now is whether the fans should just suck it up and “go along” with bioware’s “vision”, or if bioware genuinely did slap us all in the face with an incredibly lazy ending purely for the sake of being “edgy.” Incidentally, my opinion is of the latter.

its like this. i write a really epic book which revolves around saving the earth from a group of bad guys. millions of people then invest countless hours and dollars following it. then to end it i decide that the protagonist is randomly approached by a magical-cosmic-jesus-child that has never been implied to exist. that being then proceeds to explain that the bad guys were created to kill mankind so that mankind would not kill themselves through violence or selfishness or whatever other overly-generalized message-mongering reason. i think anyone could agree that that would be stupid, redundant, and illogical, thus i, the creator of the series, am wrong in having made the choice to end it that way and any subsequent fan outrage is completely justified.
This is of course an extreme example, but the moral is that creative minds behind entertainment are not some sort of holier-than-thou masterminds who should be exempt from criticism just because its “their story” or they “know better” and can “do whatever they want.” And we the consumers should not have to “be grateful” to them for “providing” us with entertainment. Its a two-way street. They make entertainment and we pay for it and if its not up to standard we have every right to trash it. This is also part of the mindset behind a lot of online piracy as well whether one agrees with it or not.

I agree to a certain extent. I guess I kind of looked at it liked these guys write these stories or shows or whatever and then we either like it or don’t. If they come up with some crap ending or crap plot arcs then how good was this story to begin with? I think you have me coming around to what you are saying. I guess we just disagree on what we think is not good in regards to Fringe. Your comments throughout here does have me thinking about the inconsistencies alot more. However I guess I expect inconsistencies, especially with shows as complex as Fringe. There are some episodes that I thought were relatively bad; namely Night of Desirable Objects. I really hated that episode. Thanks for the response. 🙂

I think I’m in the same boat as will. I’m not sure where I fall on the spectrum of holding the writers accountable. I feel like I try to give them leeway as much as possible, but I can also see your point. I don’t think I’ve been as frustrated with Fringe as you seem to be getting, Kate, but I’ve definitely gotten to that point with other shows/video games, so while I disagree with you specifically on Fringe, I do see your larger point and can respect your opinion.

And just as a side note, has this conversation gotten entirely too difficult to follow for anyone else? There are so many comments I don’t even know where to reply half the time lol.

When I first saw this trailer, I didn’t imagine it could get so many strong comments!

I think the 4 weeks hiatus is making some of us loose their mind, be careful, Saint Claire is waiting 🙂

More seriously, I was not a shipper from the start and the second half of season 3 really annoyed me because I thought the way they handled the PO relationship was poorly written and weakened both the plot and Olivia’s character.
As I said before, it was the strong but at the same time fragile, independant and compassionate Olivia which first attracted me and then made me a Fringe addict.

But I came to like their relationship and understood that it is now a key element of the mythology if not the mythology itself and I think the PO relationship is far more better and mature this season than it was last year.

Looking at this trailer, I’m only more impatient for March 23 to come and discover the end of this season which hopefully will not be the last.

I have some issues with the fact that the love story is the prime element and focus of the show when I thought the war between the blue and red verse could have been developped in a awesome (beginning of season 3, remember) but until now, I’ve never been disappointed with the outcome and development of the story and I still think Fringe is the best show on TV right now with the best characters relationship and the best cast on hearth so end of season 4, you’d better come soon, the wait is killing me!

In the end, we have to believe in hope and believe that season 5 will come true.

I’ll be honest and say that PO relationship was the thing that really got me hooked up on Fringe and I usually don’t appreciate this kind of will-they-won’t-they thing.
Fringe used to air in a schedule that I couldn’t watch so I never cared much, didn’t really knew what it was about. Then I watched an episode, it was around the middle of season 2 and there was something about their relationship that made me come back the next week and the next. And then Fringe was no longer about that relationship and I had to watch it all and could only think to myself how could I have missed it for so long!!
So if it weren’t for that one day and PO’s relationship I would probably be missing one of the best shows on TV.

It’ll be interesting to se what the ratings look like for that night. For all the shows. Hunger Games premiere is that night plus a lot of people are on Spring Break. Let’s up Fringe can pick up some momentum for this final run of episodes.

The only thing that we can do, well in the case the people that is in US,(because unfortunately I don’t live in US ) is watch live.
And do anything that we cold to make the ratings a little better! Fringe deserve a 5 season!!!!

Are you kidding me?????, another 100 comments?….I’m gonna need more hiatus time now…lol….I’ve just read some of the first, and there I was thinking “LOVE IS IN THE AIR”….hahaa

I’ll read them over the weekend, cuz is too much, but for now, from what I’ve read I think it’s a good think that we are so passionate about any issue from FRINGE, you can call it whatever you like (shippers, mythppers or plain hippies) but what I like about a blog is that at least each and everyone should be able to defend their POV without being attacked. I know it’s a difficult task because I think I’ve fail at that myself, but I’ll try to, from now on, mostly because is near the end of the show and I don’t want to waste my time or others with arguments that can never be win.

The MOTW seems creepy, I hope he delivers. However, the most interesting part for me is the beacon. I guess Peter finds it in September’s apartment, but how did it get there? I though September couldn’t touch it. Perhaps it can be touched, when it’s inactive? Anyway, I can’t wait to see its purpose.

The show since halfway through Season Three has been an awful lot of hot garbage. There have been some avenues taken by the writers that I’ve liked but none of it undoes the baby mama drama, the lack of consistency in the story, having the P/O “will they? won’t they?” love fest rammed down our throats (the writers approach romance with all of the subtlety and finesse of two teenagers in a dimly lit room savagely groping each other at their first make out party) I’ve already instigated one flame war related to the inconsistencies in the story line in which I clumsily tried to defend and explain a lot of the strange choices made by the writers in recent ground breaking developments concerning rewritten time lines and temporal paradoxes (sorry Dylan, you’re write I don’t know what a paradox is, have no idea what the Observers are and are not capable of, and have no idea who built the machine or why it still exists when the future in which it was sent back in time no longer exists).

I read a lot of really interesting explanations for how some of these things are possible and I’ll got ahead and point out that I myself subscribe to the palimpsest theory that suggests the previous timeline was overwritten. But having said that, I also agree with Darth Kate that if that is the case there is absolutely no hope of the original timeline from the previous three seasons coming back. Perhaps some key characters will remember their experiences from the previous timeline, perhaps through some LSD trip through astral wonderland like in “Lysergic Acid Diethylamide”. Tough to swallow maybe, but at least the insufferable “babeh Henry” is finally gone.

Having said all of that, I understand the people who want to defend the story as it is, because I’m that guy too. But I also understand the rampant criticism and anger at what appeared to be an amazing story taking shape through two seasons that hopelessly and inexplicably degenerated into a sappy and unbelievable love story. All of the unfortunate writing would have been so much easier to take if Fringe had sucked from day one but it’s worse than that, we’ve watched an amazing and unprecedented feat of writing and serialized television devolve into tawdry soap opera style romance.

Fringe is still one of the most unpredictable and thought provoking stories on television and that’s why even the angriest vitriol and invective spewing fans still hang around and contribute on forums like these, it’s hard to come to terms with the direction this formerly triumphant story has taken. I respect the people who still love the story for what it is but I also have to respect those who are the quickest to point out weak writing and plot holes. Personally I think the angriest of us long time fans are just going through the seven stages of grief because we know the story we fell in love with through the first two seasons is basically dead and likely not coming back, we’re stuck on anger.

The Seven Stages of Grief

1. Shock and Denial

2. Pain & Guilt

3. ANGER & BARGAINING (where I’m stuck)

4. Depression, Reflection, Lonliness

5. The Upward Turn

6. Reconstruction and Working Through

7. Acceptance (that the show is more or less unmitigated crap)

Now a lot of this is tongue in cheek, and I still love this show, but there are a great many plot developments since season three that to this day I have yet to come to terms with. Anyway, just enjoy the show while you can, Fringe is like whisky in a paper cup, and simply wasn’t made to last.

Here’s hoping for Season Five so some of the inexplicable weirdness can be salvaged into good story telling. Excelsior.

PB very interesting thoughts!!!! This is essentialy the direction I have been thinking of the last few days. First of all when you are reading all these comments here you can´t help but think WOW its amazing – how can a Tv show make so many people all over the world have so many feelings and thoughts regardless good or bad about the characters their relationships, mythology, storylines and talking about it so passionate as Fringies do!!!!?- it leads exactly to one conclusion – what the writers and producers of Fringe do all the time with the storytelling is in fact phenomenal and genius – because look – they managed to create a SCIFI show grounded in the reality because of its incredible characters and their relationships.We all got invested in these characters because they felt so real through their relationships Walter-Peter father-son relationship, Peter Olivia -at first friendship and than slowly growing love, their decisions were/ are so deep grounded in the reality that we slowly started to believe the scifi elements of the show to be possible, to be the truth. Our beloved characters are making human, real decisions which everyone of us could make being in their shoes and all this in the middle of the scifi world full of strange cases parallel universes etc. Look in fact if you think about it every mother and father would do for her/his kid what Walter did for AltPeter – I´m also mother and I assure you I would do in Walter situation exactly the same thing regardless the concequences of destroing the universes to make sure that at least these other kids could live – its true- parents love is so unspeakably strong – so I understand and feel for Walter all the time, the same for Olivia I think I would do the same thing knowing that the man I love so much didn´t recognise me all her struggle appeare so believable to me as a woman and also for Peter actually I can understand why he wanted so badly in the first half of season 3 Bolivia to be his Olivia notising the differences but every time explaining them to himself- was it not human to not wanting to loose something you finally had? especially if you are so in love- love makes really blind – so I felt for Peter although at first I blamed him for not recognising the real Olivia – so did he – he also blamed himself for it, he was very truly upset about it and tried desperately explain it to Olivia that he loves her so much and this love made him blind he said :I thought she was you Olivia- he din´t want it he did not do this on purpose and it was all so real and human! Its incredibly amazing if you think about it! What I´m trying to say is the writers and the producers make us feel, make us guess, their storytelling is unpredicable and fascinating and all grounded in the reality and in the sicfi world at once!Isn´t it why we are so addicted and passionate about Fringe! I think we love to feel with our chracters and to analyse what we would do in their shoes, we love this because we think they are like everyone of us!Genius!
That´s why we felt all these things PB mentioned above about season 4! because we are so in love with our original characters we forgot or desperately wanted to forget the scifi elements of the show and did not even try to understand that what happend was so called Butterfly effect the result of cheating the rules of time: Future Walter and Peter were aware of the reparcussions of such actions but they decided that nothing could be worse than Olivias death and dying universes.Walter said to Peter that if something goes wrong Olivia would be their fail-safe! And so we find ourselves we audiens and the only beloved original character Peter at the beginning of season 4 in this totally changed old new world as a result of cheating the rules of time. And we are TOTALLY in HIS SHOES – we feel exactly what he feels and what PB pointed out perfectly:shock, pain, anger, depression, lonliness,reconstraction and acceptance! WOW amazing! Peter loves Olivia and Walter so much that he is rejecting the possibility that this new world and people that don´t know him and don´t have feelings for him are his people and he is in his world – so do we the audiens – we love the original characters so much that we desperately want to believe with Peter that there is somewhere the original timeline to come back to for him and for us – we are frustrated, angry we miss the original characters we don´t want to believe there is no original timeline anymore although we have signs of that in what Observers are saying : the timeline has been rewritten, she used to know him, you managed to return in phisical form, or because of Olivias dreams and Walter visions of Peter. Somehow slowly seeing how the new old characters are changing having Peter back in their lives and becoming a lot like our beloved original characters we start to reconstructing our feelings about them and accepting them so does Peter!!!So we are starting to get invested in our new original characters and we feel what Peter feels all the time all his struggle in the middle of the time paradox!!! Isn´t it genius actually!?
I think thats why we love Fringe so much! We are given the possibility at times to love the storytellig at times to hate it and to guess whats to come next? But we are still addicted and still fascinated!!!!!!!!
This intelligent show deserves season 5 and Beyond!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think we should trust the writers and producers: they said that episode 4.15 will be-all and end-all peoples expectations in trems of PO relationship so there is really a good chance we will have our PO together reunited next episode especially when there is a lot of another important stuff to resolve this season such like : Olivias death prophecy, DRJ evil plans, fixing the timeline, Walter Peter relationship, Observers mystery!!!!! Can´t wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Sorry for this long post):)
There is such a beautiful quote Peter Blueverse mom said once to him: “Sometimes the world we live in is not the world we want! But we have our hearts and imagination so we can try and changed it!!!!” Isn´t it mirroring the situation Peter and we audiens are at the moment? And like Future Walter said Olivia is the fail-safe because of her abilliteies she remembers the original timeline and she could be the key in fixing the timeline!!!

Great post Lafra08. You described my feelings on my love for the show pretty well and the season four drama as well. Forgot about that quote from Peter’s mom. I too think Olivia will be the main key somehow. She too can manipulate her reality and environment as evidenced by her making it snow when she was a kid with Peter in the field of white tulips and at the end of The End of All Things at the end when she possibly made it rain(?) at the end.

I love this too. I think the writers have said that their intention this season is for us to feel as uprooted as Peter. Not that I agree with that choice, but I think they are certainly achieving the effect, even if it has had negative consequences in terms of ratings, etc.

What I am most interested in your post, though, is the mention of a fail-safe in Olivia. Is this in the scene in TDWD when Peter and Walter talk about him going back? I will have to rewatch as this is really interesting when viewed from our current perspective.

Ah, but there’s something about the palimpsest theory you’re missing. If something is written, and then someone erases it and writes something else, then someone can come back to erase the new writing and rewrite the old writing.
Or, to use Astrid’s videotape terminology: If someone records over a episode of Fringe (heresy, I know) with an episode of Bones, the episode of Fringe is gone and the episode of Bones is on the tape. BUT, if there’s a rerun of the Fringe episode, someone can fix things by rerecording the episode of Fringe over the Bones episode.
So, to fix the timeline this season, someone (the Observers, probably) needs to come in and rerecord the timeline from the first three seasons.

Interesting Robert. However I was thinking that the same problem that Peter sacrificed himself for in the first place would return. Things like Henry, who was never supposed to be. I literally have no clue what the writers plan to do to resolve this. It is going to be fun watching though.

I need to say, Fringe was the first TV show that makes me go out to my confort zone, and put all my theories, even if completelly crazy, on here to discuss with you guys.
So, yes, I hope that Fringe continues on season 5, and as far as history can go. For me, like something so much, is very dificult, but Fringe really, really got me.
So, I trust in the writers. And I’m crazy for see what is going to happen!! Lets Friday come!!!!!

It was very interesting for me that Walter said this because I knew -the idea of cheating the rules of time-it can only go wrong!you cannot do this without concequences ! it was actually I think very important hint for Peter but he is at the moment so confused that he cannot think clear about his options! I’m so curious how this is going to play out !it is so cool to talk with you about all this !Fringies rock!

“If someone records over a episode of Fringe (heresy, I know) with an episode of Bones”

Somewhat off topic, but I just have to respond to this because I did something similar. I taped over an old episode of Fringe (don’t worry, it was Season 2, so I already have the DVDs), but instead of an episode of Bones, I had taped over it with an episode of Once Upon a Time. Ironically, it was the episode with Hansel and Gretel, played by the same actor and actress who played young Peter and young Olivia, respectively. And it was the funniest thing because in the opening scene where you first see the two young actors on screen, I could faintly hear the Fringe theme playing. At first I thought it was an intentional thing, as a sort of shout out to the Fringe connection. I was actually a bit disappointed to realize it was simply sound from the original recording bleeding through into the new recording. 🙂 Anyway, your comment reminded me of this story, so I thought I’d share. Maybe some people will find it amusing. 🙂

I tell you, been on hiatus for that long make my brain almost melt!!! It’s so many theories… The more I read, the more I know that I don’t have a clue about what is going to happen, and that I probably in the end going to be looking to my monitor and saying, ” What the hell just happing” and traing to make everything make sense… Oh I really LOVE FRINGE!!!!!!

We should all remeber also that this next episode, A Short Story about Love, was supposed to be the spring finale or whatever, not the end of all things. I think the Peter and Olivia thing would have flowed better had that happened and we would get a little more continuity to the story. I love this show!

@Darth Kate
Having read your comments. I find myself agreeing that the alternate universe is just an alternative “timeline” its basically the same thing, the alternate universe introduced in season 2 is an alternate “timeline”, why peter suddenly has the lines “my timeline” etc. is beyond me. Why i hadnt considered this earlier, i dont know. He should think that he is in a another alternate universe, where he died as a child, why is it suddenly a “timeline”?

However, i will continue to disagree with you about this being a different timeline/universe or whatever, however i do agree that, that means we will never go back to the original timeline properly, i believe that maybe when peter opens the beacon like the promo suggests, that perhaps the other characters memories will be restored? but that is pure speculation.

I will say a final point on P/O: ok i get its there, i dont mind it anymore, but we dont need every promo/every scene dedicated to it, i get people saying its pivotal to the mythology and i guess i agree, but that still dosent mean we need to be overloaded by it. Thats why im hoping that they are put together in the next episode and therefore it has some kind of resolution and we are able to get on with saving the universes and rebuilding the walter/peter relationship (which i have missed sorely) Too much focus this season has been on romance.

Finally, as i havent said it in a while. DIE LINCOLN DIE DIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! DIEEEE!

JM – I have kept my mouth shut about Lincoln; even when his face comes on the screen, I cringe. It also bothers me that by including Lincoln in the montage of characters affected by Olivia’s memory loss is supposed to represent that they (Olivia and Lincoln) have/had formed some type of strong bond; yet no images of Astrid or Broyles. Well, I guess their attachement to Olivia is purely professional. In any event, I still can’t accept Lincoln as a part of the core Fringe team . . . sorry.

I truly feel bad that I have such dislike for this character (not the actor — Seth is adorable which is the problem).

I don’t want the Lincoln character to die, but he could be reassigned to another division. 🙂

Well it would be a bit of a bummer for peter if he got back to the orginal timeline (if he can) and liv was dating some other guy 🙂
Lol i love how people get so argumentative and have all different opinions over a tv show
Personally i think that people can complain about the direction where a show is going but if i was put in the place of the writers i wouldnt have a clue what to write and every show has some shitty bits (*cough cough* kim baeur in 24 *cough cough* the whole weird river song in dr who) but some people like shit (*twilight*) and if it didnt change it would get boring and predictable
And fringe is cool cos it does stuff other tv shows wouldnt do
I mean its not like corries gonna decide it needs another universe or owt
But it would be cool to see more of a return to season 2/ early season 3
I think the whole alternate timeline thing is quite interesting but it needs to get wrapped up soon
Looking forward for this ep as i have already watched yesterdays and next wednesdays show on the internet (i was really bored) so i have to now wait two weeks for this one.
😀
Ps. Wheres charlie go???

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