The Rapture - 1st Thessalonians

One of the most interesting phenomena amongst Xtians is their persistent belief in a rapture of Xtians from the plant just prior to what is called the Great Tribulation. What is so, so sad is that so many Xtians I know personally are so caught up in this childishness that they've given up on certain areas of their lives and just sit back...'waiting and hoping for things to get so bad that the rapture will have to occur...god will have to act to save "those that are alive and remain" of his believers.

Hogwash, immaturity, childishness and laziness. The problems we face as Americans will continue to get worse by inaction, failure to expend the mental effort to focus and reset your priorities. Our Welfare/Warfare/crony capitalistic state gains from this lethargy.

Religion, especially Xtianity, is definitely the ace-trump that seals the results in which this nation is headed.

Hi Chris - There is no word "rapture" in the historic record called the New Testament. The one called Paul of Tarsus talked about being "caught up" -

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive andremain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The Greek word that was translated to English was:

726 harpazo {har-pad'-zo} from a derivative of 138; and was also translated in other King James version as: catch up 4, take by force 3, catch away 2, pluck 2, catch 1, pull 1;

definition of:

from a derivative of aireomai - haireomai 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

138= probably akin to airw - airo 142; to take for oneself, i.e. to prefer:--choose. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai hel'-lom-ahee; which is otherwise obsolete.

142= a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare nasa' 5375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Since I am certain that when we take the superstitiousness and mysticism, thus religious/spiritual definitions out, we are left with a potentially more realistic understanding of what was meant, so instead of thinking one would be physically lifted up into the clouds one is lifted up and away from their Old life literally as when Jesus' disciples left everything to literally be physically with Jesus evidenced here among other places:

Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Now one could think, their "forsaking" all was of their instigation so would not fit with being "carried or taken away" but there are many examples of Jesus telling some what they must do to be his disciple, "give away all your possesions to the poor", "let the dead bury the dead" (referring to a person who didn't want to leave his ailing parent), as to Jesus if you didn't follow him you were destined to die physically and eventually spiritually, the discarnate dimension of what we each are.

And this was a "lifting up and away" because it was an Above Human physical Kingdom structured Level of Life, responsible for the technical design and orchestration of this and virtually all the planets and suns, etc., actually in more real terms that we can understand today as opposed to times past, an Evolutionary Level Above Human just as Human is an evolutionary level above animal and animal above plant and plant above mineral. And this view is also supported by many other biblical examples that I can go through if you like sometime.

Therefore, today, in anticipation of the return of this Evolutionary Level Above Human, spoken of in Jesus terms as a Kingdom (bastila sp?) of God(Gr. Theos - Above human beings, derived from Hebrew Elohyim a plural term as the Evolutionary Level Above Human is a many membered environment and is kingdom like because there is a type of natural heirarchy in the experience of the existing membership but defined as Rulers, Judges specifically, Christians consider themselves disciples of Jesus simply by believing he was from the Kingdom of God and for keeping a few of the Old Testement laws, thus thought to be first in deserving of the promised rewards of eternal life, etc. while not fulfilling the prime directives given by Jesus to be prepared for his armada's return - to keep ones eyes open, watching and listening in every way we can to observe his arrival because in line with this idea of being "caught away", He said in one place, if we are caught unaware, he would come AS a thief. In other words, those who were not aware, would miss him as he would come in a way they don't recognize.

Now, what's interesting is how this "lifting up" can actually have yet another realistic way of looking at it that never could have been imagined 2000 yrs ago if it hadn't been demonstrated for them, opening them up to the idea, that would then be passed down through the generations to where some simply believe it, yet can't come up with a technical way of justifying such belief. However today, with weightlessness simulations and other technologgies that can lift objects into the air without strings or cables, such as strong magnetics, or a strong vacuum, we can conceive of the possability that a human being can be levitated by technology. Thus who are we to say that those who put this reality into place couldn't choose to literally pick up human phyiscal bodies of Souls that want to go with them, pulling them into a cloud(spacecraft hovering in the cloud).

This is certainly possible and anyone who says it's not is simply afraid to consider it for one reason or another.

Thirdly, one could also say that those that have watched for the next coming and it's pretty clear it must be in the form of someone once again, "born from a woman", thus in human form, as Jesus said, he was a "son of man" and said the Son of man would return and also said he'd return with a new name and a song, so a song and dance man I guess, perhaps a musician and with his Father, as they always work together but this time the FAther would also "make our abode with you", where abode meant to "live with" and they would speak, talk, teach again too and this time without parables(stories) about their Kingdom, thus terms like the Evolutionary Level Above Human.

And of course they would be seen as a dangerous cult who demanded of their students that they must "give their all" what Jesus said was the number one commandment which began with Moses. Anyone who said those kinds of things today would certainly be called a Cult Leader, that is if anyone paid attention to them.

And these two would also correlated to the Rev. 11 Two witnesses who were compared to two olive trees (trees of life that produce oil-energy that when exercised/consumed as in a purging overcoming of mammalian humanness creates "light" energy that lights up as in the prophecy they'd be like two lampstands, the entire body brighter than someone who doesn't enter such a program.

And that one would take over a female body thus would be seen by the world as a woman and she would be the elder of these two because of rev. 12 where she gives birth to a male child who is caught up to the throne task and who is depicted as having a liter of souls to birth which is what bears him into "fatherhood" and who would ride a white(light) horse, thus a human vehicle he takes that he purifys of it's human limiting characteristics. Horse a term for a human vehicle being taken over (like a body snatcher, again with reference to stealing away or catching away), so that when these who enter into this new cults program and complete it by giving their all to the satisfaction of these Father and Son returned dictatorial qualifications, should they exit (be harvested as in rev 14) by dropping their physical body, as opposed to being lifted up into a spacecraft physically, then when their Soul body's that were in development which is like a metamorphosis changes into a new creature by it's graduation intelligently exersiced free willed faithfullness to enter and compete the program, then those soul body's would "float up into that spacecraft" that remains cloaked (or remains visible) by humans on the ground who if they hadn't dropped dead by the sight, as it won't look like da vinci's portrait of jesus - a hippie, will think it was space aliens abducing people, though that's been happening simulaneousy as permitted by the Level Above Human to give us a choice of what to believe, but that the space aliens are all human or human equivilents in nature and yet in mind are souls that were once fallen angels, nephilium, rengades who are working against the creators crew to keep human souls from believing in the real deal, which is one facet of the war in the heaven's.

Thus a quick synopsis of what the return must look like and that staunch religionists and spiritualists and atheists and paganists and any and all who declare themselves some ist or ism allegience will miss.

I got this from a synthesis of all I experienced while with those called Ti and Do, those who started as Human Individual Metamorphosis in their 3 1/2 yr. public tour in 1973-1976 when I joined them and then the students in a second public offerring in 1994 that I was part of and then the last of actually 7 public offerrings in sync with the 1997 Hale Bopp comet's prohecy of Their arrival to those who weren't ready for the first harvest (as all can not be ready at the same time for) seen as like "lightening shining from one part of the heaven's in the east to the other part of the heavens even to the west" as the Heaven's Gate suicide cult.(no suicide now)

They are next slated to return for the second harvest, potentially me and you if you seek to communicate with them by your own in secret request to know them and offer them your service (as we do have to earn our way, unlike the christians who were largely mistled by belief in Paul over Jesus) to spread the info they brought.

Thank you, Sawyer, for your perspective! It is not unlike my own in many ways :) I would comment more but there were so many ideas in your response that could lead into entire discussions of their own if explored. Continue the quest my friend! :)

I believe there is evidence of a third coming, but I wouldn't even call it that. There is no place in scritprue that talks about a "second coming". The facts are Jesus said he and his father would return with their crew, the saints, those who gave their lives in their support and though this is hard to document clearly but I believe according to my teachers that it was the same Souls from the Kingdom of God, aka Level Above Human who fulfill the tasks of bringing a soul planting amoung humans to a harvest/graduation which takes several human experiences, where the idea of reincarnation comes from though that term as most terms have been misused to be some automatic thing and as if there is no driving spirit/soul in each new born human, though there is evidence that there is. So the hindu and buddhist, thoough having many parrellels, though hidden in the Vedas and Upanishads are today thinking in a distorted way about the real Kingdom Above Human, as are today's Christians. It's like they all have correct generalities but few of the specifics so they fight over the specifics they have largely manufactured or applied to particular circumstaces. But I believe the Soul that was put into the vehicle called Adam was also the Soul that took the vehicle called Enoch, who was taken and then that soul came back again as Moses, having to take over a body, a type of rapture, each time commondeering it to do the will of the Lord, who had the name Jehovah Elohyim (Lord God) in the Old Testement, then came back again as a "son of man" born of woman as Elijah but was taken to show again that a physical body can be taken away, then leading up to Jesus, each time bringing new lesson material to the souls that were back each time to take over the prepared human genetic family tree being cultivated each time to be a match for the growth in faith and action of the souls in the program. So by the next time it would be the 6th coming, who I feel I have a great deal of evidence were my teachers, Ti and Do known throughout the world as the Hale Bopp (twin tailed, with companion photo) comet seen by all, and who with their students gave their lives to the Older Members, then in 1997 Do as the Heaven's gate cult whom I was with for 19years so can testify to their voluntariy decision to lay their bodies down as Jesus said he did and said his disicples would have to also drink that same cup. As far as rapture goes I put in a lengthy analysis of the term used in thesselonians to chris if you want to check it out as I have three interpreations of rapture, all of which are documentable but none of which would Christians agree on or if they do think it would apply to them as they often think they are disciples of jesus who died in belief (christ) when they havn't given their lives in any way, with a few exceptions over the years, in which those would no doubt be saved but dont' get the reward until they overcomg/conquer alltheir human mammon mammalian ways.

Oh and I was curious about this, "...and said the Son of man would return and also said he'd return with a new name and a song..."

I wanted to look into this a little closer since I was not as familiar with it. Where can I find it?

Since the book of Revelation talks about a giant colorful Borg ship descending on the Earth and it is called the "New Jerusalem" which literally translates to the "New Peace" I have not considered much the idea of another "Jesus" being born. Anyways...just wondering... :)

****** re: song: ******Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Only these could learn the song because these were the amount of Soul seeds planted. Everyone else couldn't care less.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Note: This Song by the singing of it is their(the ~144,000 Soul Seeds planted) expressing their belief/trust/allegience to the person WHO they are acknowleging is worthy, to whom they recognize is the real deal the one who was authorized/assigned/annointed (the Christ) to take the book(of life, containing the names of all who are to be kept(saved) for their own future overcoming earthbased experiential classroom that would be seen by most as a cult), to open the seals that reveal the truths.

This song is also acknowledgeing that this person was slain(* greek sphazo, as opposed to greek apokteino which is "kill in any way" thus can ALSO be spoken of as stopped or haulted from what they were doing, as it's used in Rev 11 regarding the Two Witnesses, where sphazo was the same word used to slaughter or butcher or mortally wound any creature so would not be used to simply say they were stopped/haulted). They are expressing this to HIM acknowledging him as the same person of 2000 years ago then named "Jesus"(saviour/redeemer) having self sacrificed his own body by volunteering to be apprehended and murdered without any formal charge as prophesized. So yes the cliche of his giving his blood was genuine and every one of his followers would eventually have to be willing to do the same thing. He (Jesus) layed down his life for his Father (See book of John) in the assigned task given him for the benefit of the students the FAther gave him and that these 144,000 (who are in different grades in the overall school) came from all over the earth, thus to a new geographic area that would be a "melting pot" that has a new city of God in a new judea and with a new sodom, land of milk and honey, which was/is America but precisely to an area in the United States generally west of the mississippi river.

So I say that the return occurred as the Two witnesses in the names of Ti and Do who have since exited their physical bodies but still answer to new believers in some way, but not the way the space aliens and spirits seek to communicate with humans and not for the reasons humans and spirits communicate. These were the UFO Two in 1975-6 that made world wide news for months, calling themselves Human Individual Metamorphosis (the overcoming/conquering of their human mammalian ways and desires) and then were known as The Heaven's Gate Suicide Cult, though it wasn't really a suicide by the traditional use of the word. They were not angry or distraught or having felt failed, nor trying to be martyr's. I don't say this lightly. The evidence of their voluntary choice is to be found within all the materials they left behind and my postings on youtube (as channel: 3spm) and wordpress as sawyerhg.wordpress.com .

Buy the way, laying down one's physical life is a requirment for graduation but we who remain now are not near that grade in school. Our stage is to be willing to tell others about Ti and Do and accept the ramifications that may end up resulting in the loss of our physical lives, by an advasaries hand or by natural circumstances.

Do, the male of the two's favorite song was "lo how a rose". They took the note names largely from feeling that the Next Level was behind the movie The Sound of Music. They felt it outlined their task to help them awaken to whom they were having come from Outer space here to perform a task of bringing updates to the Bible.

At the spontaneous beginning to the students, we traveled the US giving public meetings for most of a year until Ti said, "the harvest is closed" in which we were given a location to meet at in Wyoming at Veedavou campground in the Medicine Bow national forest near Laramie, WY. One of the first things they gave to us as a tool of learning to take full control over our own bodies(vehicles) within the program they had for us, was a tuning fork in the key of A. We were told to learn that tone and we could use it to tune out discarnate influences that are all around us and seek to use humans like a timeshare computer system. The spirits want to do the same things they did when alive.

Ti and Do gave us a song to sing as a type of mantra. It went like this:

Help me have no human waysNo thoughts of selfno faults to seeonly the ways of space

now I know my heart is fastin my father's path at lastonly the ways of spaceonly the ways of spa...ce.

(we never sang this in group as singing those words was meant to be private between each of us and what Ti and Do called our Older Members of which they were).

Very good questions Kyle. It all seems to be quite mysterious and the many teachings we hear today only seem to muddle the truth. In my experience, I have only really been able to perceive these concepts in two main ways, either, 1) literal or 2) figuratively/metaphorically/spiritually.

Is it a physical return in a spaceship or a spiritual return in the hearts of men?

Is it a physical rising to a spaceship or is it a spiritual rising to higher understanding?

Is is physical bodies rising from the dead or is it a spiritual awakening of people who are spiritually dead (or asleep)?

Hello again Chris. Perhaps some of I've gathered can help you. I enjoy seeing someone dig into these things looking for answers. I agree there are two ways to take most things said, literal and figurative/metaphoric/spiritual/mystical. I believe Jesus is fairly thorough on this front telling us when he is telling us a story.The rest of the time I believe is literal except for the book of revelations which I believe is both, while what's done with a figure also boils down to somethng literal. But re: the questions you posed:

1) physical or spiritual return? Both and in more than one way at more than one specific time. I believe they actually came in two forms. Some of them (the older ones) came with their physical bodies and with them were the younger ones who had not become members of the crew entirely yet came in their soul bodies. (A soul body is different than a spirit body).

They traveled here by spacecraft and then orchestrated their crashing. This way they would exit their physical bodies (something that to them that is a form of sacrifice as enterign the human kingdom is like entering a snake pit to them). They also wanted to show the government who they knew would confiscate the hardware and bodies and study it all, they exist as that would start in motion a true secret government like no time before.

But there was also a huge spacecraft that had been here in the earth atmophere but extending to and/or into the earth that is invisible to us but has physical properties but our dense physical can pass right through. IN that spacecraft that Jesus referred to as greek paradosa Paradise to the strung up thief who expressed belief which got him "saved" for a new opportunity to "re-incarnate" not an automatic process as some teach.

Now unless a human body receives a Soul Seed or a mark/tag which is related to the soul seed, the soul seed actually being a container or pouch that holds Level Above Human mind that needs to be grown to be a harvested fruit that could then drive a new provided body that is more sophisticated than any human body, then they will not recognize the members from the Kingdom of God when they take over prepared human vehicles and begin to tell about who they are, where they came from and when they will leave and how to overcome/conquer the human mammon/mammalian kingdom level of evolutionary life where human is above animal and animal above plant and plant above mineral. There is at least one more level that is above human and it's membeship are all also above all space aliens in everyway. Thus if we don't have that implanted tag/soul seed our heart will not be open to who they really are as the world by in large will count them as an evil cult.

2) physical rising to spacecraft or spiritual rising to higher understanding? Both again and actually another addition. The human vehicle does need to die. That's what the sickle in the rev. 14 harvest does to the wheat stalks. But the ovecoming process which starts with leaving all behind to begin what is equivilent to a metamorphosis from catepillar to butterfly where then you put your literal person under the will of another whom yiou trust who keeps you in a controled overcomers classroom to prepare to be harvested. It ends wth being childlike in the way you would trust the person who is representing the Level Above Human , aka our Heavenly(from outer space) FAther.

When some are with the returned Kingdom of God reps, they will be shown lots of new ideas and ways of talking/thinking about the Level Above Human in more generitic terms as opposed to religous more innarrurate terms. This provides a new and yes, higher understanding of many things.

3. Is it physical bodies risign from deador spiritual awakening. Again Both. The body that is the Soul seed (new wine skin) given to some is physical though much lesd sense.. It's more dense than even a human level discarnate whom some have seen.

I don't know if someone who is spiritual dead or asleep has the capasity to wake up unless they have some type of trauma in their life and begin asking for help and questins to the creator crew. This is how the seperation takes place.

The first harvest was the heaven's gate group. The next one can be us if we believe in those called Ti and Do.. That's all there is to it. No big study required or diploma, etc.