H has a history in our M of keeping secrets and withholding work related information. He has long been possessive about work, not consulting me for job changes, not listening to my opinion about anything related to his job: that he should confront people who are stealing clients, withholding pay, how to find a job (when we were M 5 years, he waited at home saying he was going to get a job through "networking" instead of applying for a job...we ended up of food stamps for 3 months ugh! His parents sent us $1000 to help pay bills. He was summa cum laude in college, and I have 2 degrees. I was on anti contraction meds and complete bed rest with our first child, b/c of pre term labor.

Last night, I asked him how his SA meeting went. He said it was about forgiveness. He said someone at work wrote him an email accusing him of not doing things he had been asked to do, and copied it to a higher up. The things he was accused of doing, he absolutely couldn't do because he didn't have the clearance, training, authority (something like that...he couldn't do it.) He said he was working on forgiving that person.

I asked him if I could tell him what I would do. Surprisingly he said, "Ok."

I told him I would send an email to the employee and higher up stating he didn't have the authority or training (whatever it was) to do the things he was asked.

His response, "I'm going to have a personal conversation with the guy, I'm not going to create an email paper trail."

Me: "He has started a paper trail on you, and months down the line you are going to forget the details, and if this comes back to bite you, you will need to have it written down to help you remember the details, and the email will be your vindication.

Him: "Maybe I'll talk with him face-to-face and then maybe I'll send an email.

Me: "Who did this to you?"

Him: "It doesn't matter."

Me: "It matters to me, who did this to you."

Him: "Forget it, I forgave him."

Me: "I am your wife. I need to know."

Him: "No you don't."

Me: "I have a different personality than you have, I need to know."

Him: Silence.

Me, yelling now: "You are trying to control the conversation. You give me just so much information, and when I need more, you withhold it. I am your wife, and you are protecting a person who stabbed you in the back. You are putting protecting a stupid stranger above your wife's need to know!"

Him: "You don't care about me, you just want to know the details of the story. You need to take this to God, and get right with him."

Me: "I love you, and I have a right to know who did that to you. You are changing the subject. My wanting to know who hurt my husband is not sin, and I am not doing anything wrong."

Him: mumbling and no longer talking.

Me: I left angry and went outside and came back a few times to tell him the above things as I thought of them. I finally felt like, "GET ME AWAY FROM THIS MAN!!!"

When I came to bed, I brought his laptop and told him to open it to the emails. He did. The person who backstabbed him was his immediate supervisor and boss, of whom H has talked very highly. H is loyal to people, bosses in particular, to a fault. When the job begins going south for various reasons, sometimes not even having to do with him, he stays, loyally, until it gets really bad, and it ends up hurting our family financially, via loss of job b/c of H quitting without having another good job lined up, since he didn't look while he was being loyal to the first job.

He is acting out old patterns at work, and at home.

Get me away from this man. I want to D. But I have 3 precious girls whose lives would be literally blown up. They are homeschooled, and they are flourishing. Their life is sweet, wholesome and peaceful. They are looking forward to this year, having a few classes with their home school friends, and doing the rest at home. They are such loving sisters, and good daughters.

If I D, H won't be able to afford for me to homeschool, and they'll be thrown into public school, at 11, 13, 16. We have terrible schools here: some of the worst in the state for drugs, suicide, and poor academics.

I feel trapped with this secretive, manipulative man. He says he wants to bond with me, to "be one" with me. But he has kept secrets from me all through this M. His secret about the name proves he still thinks he is entitled to his little personal space where I don't know things.

Do you think that withholding the name, when I needed to know, is keeping secrets in our M?

Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009

HurtButHopeful?♀ 25144Member # 25144

Posted: 9:31 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013

I forgot to add that the Supervisor has been mentoring H plan his career in the company, in order to maximize pay. Evidently by switching from hourly to salary too soon, it lowers pay a lot over the years, compared to staying hourly for more years at first.

His Supervisor/mentor made the mistake of switching over too soon, so he has been helping H make promotion and training choices to avoid his own mistake.

But a few months ago, supervisor learned how much H was making and he was upset because H is making more than supervisor. H works 6 days a week, gets up at 4 and comes home between 7 and 9 p.m. Supervisor's hours are nothing like that...yet he is mad.

It think that is at least one reason supervisor is turning on him. Maybe he is also not happy with H for other reasons that H has not told me.

H finds things that need to be done, but are neglected by others stay on the clock. He will also run personal errands on the clock, which I am very uncomfortable with.

I've been checking on H when he comes home if he is still on the clock (I want 100% integrity on part of H) and sometimes he has "forgotten" to log off. That kind of behavior makes me feel distrustful and unsafe about H.

Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009

krazy8516♀ 40076Member # 40076

Posted: 9:32 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013

HBH,

I am less concerned about the secret-keeping aspect of this than I am about his tone with you. You asked a simple question out of concern for your H and his job, and he responded with a whirlwind of bullshit.

He says he wants to bond with me, to "be one" with me. But he has kept secrets from me all through this M

.

Secrets are a no-no. His behavior isn't very "bonding," IMO. Are you two in MC at all?

I am totally perplexed why this would be a secret. .. it is very strange behavior, and certainly not conducive to having a partnership with a spouse.

Is he in IC? Seems like control issues that need to be addressed.

me - BS (45) - DDay - June 2013
A was 2+ months, EA/PA
In MC & Reconciling
"Getting over a painful experience is much like crossing monkey bars. You have to let go at some point to move forward." -- C.S. Lewis.

Posts: 2426 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA

Kelany♀ 34755Member # 34755

Posted: 9:50 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013

Does he have a sponsor yet? I would ask him to discuss this argument with his sponsor or maybe both of you could.

My husband is SA. There are no secrets in our marriage. None anymore. Work is where my husband acted out having multiple affairs and sex at the workplace (he was the boss). He's no longer at his old job, however work can be a huge trigger for me for obvious reasons. So he is very open and honest with me about work.

His being secretive is very wrong and will hinder any chance both for reconciliation and his recovery.

The ONLY thing he did positive was show you his e-mail.

I too am a homeschooling mom (of 5) so I understand not wanting to blow up their world.

BS - Me
SA/FWH Him
DDay 1 - Jul 11
DDay 2 - Jul 12
R Dec 12

Former 80s Icon wishful thinking

Posts: 2031 | Registered: Feb 2012

HurtButHopeful?♀ 25144Member # 25144

Posted: 10:21 AM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013

You asked a simple question out of concern for your H and his job, and he responded with a whirlwind of bullshit

krazy, that ^^^^ is what gets me so upset. Besides the fact that he digs in his heels, and no matter what, he will not correct his behavior in the heat of the moment. He is incapable of seeing himself while he is acting out.

Hell will freeze over before he says, "I was being controlling and protecting a stranger, instead of taking care of the intimacy in our M. I was wrong, and I am sorry I hurt you again." He. just. doesn't. get. it. He's. broken. damaged. ruined.

His mother wanted him to keep a secret from her 4th husband. His dad spent tens of thousands of dollars and caused his step MIL to go bankrupt, and she still doesn't know where the money went. His brother has done so many schenanegans while his mom looks the other way, it is sickening. He was raised by secretive people. I wasn't.

I might as well throw away my coat, because hell will never freeze over.

eta:

Krazy, no we aren't in MC anymore. I just got the name of a guy who two people have told me was excellent. I'll contact him today.

Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009

PamJ♀ 40475Member # 40475

Posted: 2:54 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013

Once I read about your WH's family I don't know what to tell you, he was raised to keep secrets, be silent, try to deal with things his own way and when questioned, he pushes back automatically.

At first I thought he was just insecure, unsure of what he should do and unwilling to admit that or seek help. Defensive because you seem to be stronger and more self-assured about how to handle things. But this seems to be a way of life for him. Not sure how you handle that without professional help.

[This message edited by PamJ at 2:55 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]

Me: BS 50+
Him: WH 60

3 EAs

2 grown sons, 1 grown step-son

Last DDay, March 19, 2013 after a few weeks of TT- trying to have a new marriage after almost 35 years.
No more chances.

Posts: 56 | Registered: Aug 2013

HurtButHopeful?♀ 25144Member # 25144

Posted: 1:16 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013

Last night I asked H if he talked with backstabbing supervisor. He said "Yes, but I don't want to talk about it tonight." It was 11:30. I was hurt and angry, b/c he talked with OW about stupidities until the wee hours of the morning, but he won't take 5-10 minutes to clear the air with his wife?

I slept on the hide a bed. I don't want to be around him, if we are not in R.

Today he called all chipper, and said, "I just wanted to follow through and tell you about the meeting."

Bottom line, supervisor threw him under the bus to save face. Supervisor admitted his pride kicked in when higher ups rubbed in that his district was not at the top of the list last month. He had to get mad at someone, so he pointed finger at my H. Supposedly supervisor got my H confused with someone else????

H has "forgiven him." Great.

H said to appease me, he will send an email as a follow up to the conversation, but only to supervisor, not all the people who got the first email.

H stands behind not telling me the name of the person (supervisor) who send the email because H was "protecting supervisor's dignity."

Dignity has nothing to do with anything here. Someone falsely accused my H, and I wanted to know who it was. The blamer's dignity was lost when they decided to create a paper trail of their accusations and cc it to multiple supervisors.

I don't even fall for that excuse. H kept a secret, and no matter how he tries to couch is justifications, HE WITHHELD INFORMATION FROM ME THAT I NEEDED TO KNOW.

The slippery slope starts little. He kept little secrets for years. Then they got bigger and bigger. No. More. Secrets. Period.

We are not in R. With this information, everything has changed for me. I'm planning my life without him.

One minute I think we are getting emotionally intimate and vulnerable together. The next he pushes me away with a secret, no matter how tiny, and he digs in his heels. I. Am. Done. With. This. SeeSaw.

I will not D him until our children are grown, if I can stand living with him, for the reasons I stated above.

Do I have to be legally divorcing to post in Divorced? Or can I be divorced in my heart and post there?

Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009

Skan♀ 35812Member # 35812

Posted: 4:44 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013

Go down there and introduce yourself. I go down there and post and I'm not even contemplating divorce ... although I did divorce my 1st husband.

Imagine a ship trying to set sail while towing an anchor. Cutting free is not a gift to the anchor. You must release that burden, not because the anchor is worthy, but because the ship is.

D-Day, June 10, 2012

Posts: 5560 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: So California

HurtButHopeful?♀ 25144Member # 25144

Posted: 6:50 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013

Thanks, Skan. I posted, and they welcomed me with open arms.

Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009

IRN2006♀ 23717Member # 23717

Posted: 8:41 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013

I am married to a recovering SA.

I understand your desire to keep your home life normal for the sake of your kids.

SA IS a family disease, just like alcoholism. Your kids WILL be affected by keeping them in a dysfunctional household.

I'm speaking now, as a child that grew up in a dysfunctional household. My primary caregiver had untreated depression and likely a personality disorder (borderline, also untreated.) I spent over half of the decade between my 20's and 30's in therapy. I also unknowingly married an SA.

My kids will be the first in three generations to grow up mentally/emotionally healthy.

I think homeschooling is very admirable. We also value the SAHP lifestyle. We planned on the SAHP while we were seriously dating but not yet engaged-it was that important to us. I personally could not stay in a situation that could possibly promote my children seeking out dysfunctional relationships of their own because that is the only thing they know and are comfortable with.

How are you with working your recovery? Are you reading your books, seeing someone, and attending a 12 step group of your own (either in person or virtually)? That's where I would focus my efforts.

Posts: 1296 | Registered: Apr 2009

myperfectlife♀ 39801Member # 39801

Posted: 9:13 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013

His behavior sounds very typical of conflict avoidance.
I've realized that my WS has had this issue his entire life, stemming from FOO issues with his father.
I've seen many, many WS with this trait and it almost seems to be a predictor for affairs.
The secrets, white lies, putting out fires, not being proactive, avoiding and blameshifting-then crazy anger- all symptoms of not wanting to face issues head on.
I believe this is a personal issue he must acknowledge and work on before moving forward with R.
Otherwise, the behavior continues to snowball and nothing is fixed-least of all the marriage.
Just my opinion.

I cannot be responsible for another's personal growth.
DDay#1 of a "cheatillion" 4/1/13
Divorce final 11/04/13

Posts: 452 | Registered: Jul 2013

HurtButHopeful?♀ 25144Member # 25144

Posted: 11:09 PM, September 5th (Thursday), 2013

IRN, boy am I reading books! I have bought most books recommended here. While reading my own books, I'm finding good books for my older girls to read geared to teens about dating, relationships, etc. so they can formulate healthy ideas and boundaries for themselves. I have a few more books that I will give them later. They are tired of that type of book, because they aren't interested in boys. They want to wait until they are older, and our homeschooling group doesn't have many boys their age they would be interested in. Whew!

I'm not in a 12 step program. I don't think being hurt by A makes one a codependent, and that is what the 12 steps focus on. I did go to a group a few times when my H went to his SA meeting, but I get more out of reading here and talking with close friends.

I read a book suggested by someone on SI regarding that issue. I think it is called, Your SA Spouse, or something like that.

I've been in IC for 2 years. Recently decided to get a new one, because she told me to forgive, trust or D...now. She was initially my IC, and then she became our MC. Now I have to find a new IC, and a good MC has been recommended to me...I was going to call him today, but didn't get around to it for children's classes and reading on SI.

myperfectlife, you described my H to a T, except for the outbursts of anger. He is not an angry person in general. He's very peaceful and conflict avoider, people pleaser. He has only blown up at me once in our entire M. Passiveness, while not abusive, is discouraging and frustrating for the other spouse.

Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009

Jospehine85♀ 35971Member # 35971

Posted: 7:48 PM, September 6th (Friday), 2013

HurtButHopeful,

I meant to post earlier, but got distracted.

Your WH's story sounds like complete BS to me. I would bet anything:

1. Your WH did screw up.

2. Your WH did deserve to be reported

3. He is lying that he didn't have clearance, training, etc to do what he didn't do.

4. He is either lying about talking to the supervisor OR he is lying about the content of that talk.

5. He doesn't want you to know the name of the supervisor so if you ever run in to him, you can't ask questions and discover the lies.

He is lying because he can not admit to his shortcomings or mistakes. He'd much rather lie and gloss it over.