OK, to all you internet tough guys out there like this one, who like to make fools out of themselves with your replies like this one, let me educate you with some facts.

James and I are friends, and he is a gentleman of the highest order. He has my home phone number and I have his.
This issue is about OUR...I repeat...OUR club's policy, of which I will address at the next members meeting. If I prevail, fine. If not, fine. It is OUR club.

The insulting and attack mob mentality most of you displayed on this thread tells me I don't blame new shooters for not joining your ranks. No one should with the language and insults most of you have shown here.

James does not need any of you to defend him as he was not attacked in the first place. At the next match we attend, we will sit in on the benches and share a Dr. Pepper and no mention of this will be made by either of us. Why? Because your behaviors displayed here are not worthy of mentioning by Texas gentleman.

We may shoot, fuss, cuss, and enjoy a drink afterward, and none of us take or make it personal like some of you guys have here.
I am sure some of you will insist on continuing this behavior after this post, so knock yourselves out. James and I are moving on.

Dave

That's great Dave, glad to see your going to continue to shoot. After you last post, I thought you were pretty much done. It seems your on the right track now. I have been going to matches like you and James have for years, not often there is a little controversy about scoring, rifles......... but they usually get resolved rather quickly. Posting your gripe on the internet was not a good way to resolve your issue. I think you understand that now. About the only way to get someone involved in a sport, that has no idea of what is involved, is to let them use equipment and get a feel of what its all about. At our club we do much the same, loan a rifle and equipment, sell them a couple boxes of ammo........... The results are sometimes like what happened in your case, it happens. If the new shooter decides to come back, they will need to have their own equipment. The best way to keep yourself on track, is not to worry about who beats who, it's about trying to improve what you can do, sharpen your skill set, try a little better ammo, maybe a better rest setup.... these things do not really cost that much. I started pretty much like you did, using lower cost equipment and ammo, I finally hit a wall, that I could not overcome unless I upgraded rifle and ammo. A friend of mine let me use his 52D and sold me a box of good ammo ( he would not let me shoot what I was using in his rifle) and my score improved 10 points from 237 to 247 on a USBR target. If you like this game and you want to do well, then you will need to decide the path to take. I would suggest taking the short path and getting a top tier target rifle and test good ammo. Anyway, I am glad you going back.

That's great Dave, glad to see your going to continue to shoot. After you last post, I thought you were pretty much done. It seems your on the right track now. I have been going to matches like you and James have for years, not often there is a little controversy about scoring, rifles......... but they usually get resolved rather quickly. Posting your gripe on the internet was not a good way to resolve your issue. I think you understand that now. About the only way to get someone involved in a sport, that has no idea of what is involved, is to let them use equipment and get a feel of what its all about. At our club we do much the same, loan a rifle and equipment, sell them a couple boxes of ammo........... The results are sometimes like what happened in your case, it happens. If the new shooter decides to come back, they will need to have their own equipment. The best way to keep yourself on track, is not to worry about who beats who, it's about trying to improve what you can do, sharpen your skill set, try a little better ammo, maybe a better rest setup.... these things do not really cost that much. I started pretty much like you did, using lower cost equipment and ammo, I finally hit a wall, that I could not overcome unless I upgraded rifle and ammo. A friend of mine let me use his 52D and sold me a box of good ammo ( he would not let me shoot what I was using in his rifle) and my score improved 10 points from 237 to 247 on a USBR target. If you like this game and you want to do well, then you will need to decide the path to take. I would suggest taking the short path and getting a top tier target rifle and test good ammo. Anyway, I am glad you going back.

52DH&R12....Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I had a death in the family and had to travel up to South Dakota for a bit and when i tried to log on at my son-in-law's house it caused all kinds of issues. I only just recently got my password reset by admin.

OK, I am only resurrecting this thread to set the record straight with provable facts, and to answer your polite email. The only polite one I have gotten here.

FACT 1. I brought my concerns to James about the " cousin issue " to him on April 12th via the club's email system. He never replied to me there and instead replied to me here at RFC. So you see it was James who brought this issue to RFC, not me. FACT. I never posted my gripe on the internet. I sent it to James via our club's email system. It was James who brought the issue here, not me.

FACT 2. I will never shoot in another rimfire benchrest match at the club as long as James keeps up with giving his cousin 100% of everything he needs to compete. There is no "selling of ammo" or "temporary loans". It is all given on a silver platter and is totally unfair to the rest of us who have to buy our own.

FACT 3. If you scroll back on this thread you will also see James not even once asked the attackers to knock it off with their personal attacks. I believe he brought the issue here so his posse could do the attacking on me for him and all he had to do was stand by and watch, not saying a thing or stopping them. This is why i believe he never answered my concerns via the club's email system in the first place. He has no attack posse when he uses the club's email system. All he had to do was click on REPLY, but he did not. He chose to bring it here to RFC instead. This is what he did. Not me.

FACT 4. I will continue to shoot until my dying day, but I will also do it ethically and honorably. I also have the ability to fight my own fights and will answer any issues individually and do not need to run to a web site and have my buddies attack the guy asking questions. I am more of a man than that.

FACT 5. My PM INBOX is still full of crap his posse is sending me. Crap that did not need to exist if he had instead just talked to me via the phone or via our club's email system....but NO, he chose to bring it here instead. His decision, not mine.

These are the facts and each one is easily provable. Now that the record has been set straight, let's close this thread and drop this issue. It has already been resolved.

Again, thank you 52DH&R12 for sending me the only polite email I have received on this entire thread. Now you know the facts of what actually happened. Enjoy your day, my friend.

52DH&R12....Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I had a death in the family and had to travel up to South Dakota for a bit and when i tried to log on at my son-in-law's house it caused all kinds of issues. I only just recently got my password reset by admin.

OK, I am only resurrecting this thread to set the record straight with provable facts, and to answer your polite email. The only polite one I have gotten here.

FACT 1. I brought my concerns to James about the " cousin issue " to him on April 12th via the club's email system. He never replied to me there and instead replied to me here at RFC. So you see it was James who brought this issue to RFC, not me. FACT. I never posted my gripe on the internet. I sent it to James via our club's email system. It was James who brought the issue here, not me.

FACT 2. I will never shoot in another rimfire benchrest match at the club as long as James keeps up with giving his cousin 100% of everything he needs to compete. There is no "selling of ammo" or "temporary loans". It is all given on a silver platter and is totally unfair to the rest of us who have to buy our own.

FACT 3. If you scroll back on this thread you will also see James not even once asked the attackers to knock it off with their personal attacks. I believe he brought the issue here so his posse could do the attacking on me for him and all he had to do was stand by and watch, not saying a thing or stopping them. This is why i believe he never answered my concerns via the club's email system in the first place. He has no attack posse when he uses the club's email system. All he had to do was click on REPLY, but he did not. He chose to bring it here to RFC instead. This is what he did. Not me.

FACT 4. I will continue to shoot until my dying day, but I will also do it ethically and honorably. I also have the ability to fight my own fights and will answer any issues individually and do not need to run to a web site and have my buddies attack the guy asking questions. I am more of a man than that.

FACT 5. My PM INBOX is still full of crap his posse is sending me. Crap that did not need to exist if he had instead just talked to me via the phone or via our club's email system....but NO, he chose to bring it here instead. His decision, not mine.

These are the facts and each one is easily provable. Now that the record has been set straight, let's close this thread and drop this issue. It has already been resolved.

Again, thank you 52DH&R12 for sending me the only polite email I have received on this entire thread. Now you know the facts of what actually happened. Enjoy your day, my friend.

Dave

Why rehash it here, you could have sent a PM to George. since it seems you wanted to clear the air with George

also what is the difference in James lending equipment to a cousin or having one of his children shoot with it, they still are family?
this would still be wrong?

Dave, I will point out I was unaware of your initial email as it was sent to my Google account that I had created specifically and only for announcing club matches and results. I only check that one about once a week as most of my email is done with Yahoo. And as it turned out, your email was a group reply to another message which did not have your name showing on the header but rather another member, so I missed it until you told me you had sent it. By then I suppose you had taken offense and aired your complaints on RFC because I had not replied. The only purpose of the Google account was to allow me to create and use group emailing, which I had problems with using Yahoo. So, I was unaware of your complaints until I saw them on RFC.

Having said all that, I invite you to come back and shoot with us as I have already done on more than one occasion. At this point that is all I know to do.

Wow... My first thought is that you have to be a pretty darned good shooter to place in a BR match using somebody else's loaner equipment and ammo.... Most folks would never get that far - because it's still the indian, not the arrow...

And nobody ever complains about the rules when they win. .

Overall - I think it sounds like a great club with some fine people in it. I wish we had something like it here.... There is basically no organized shooting in this area.... No shooting clubs... Most people just shoot "Out at the family farm"....

My general impression with club sort of matches is that with a good shooter with well shaken out factory setup and tested ammo could probably finish mid-pack in the factory class... So for example - a basically stock Marlin, Ruger, Savage, or CZ could do it assuming the shooter had spent time to pick the nits and resolve the little problems that they have and had taken the time to find the ammo it likes..... Moving to the top of the class takes more money and time - both for gear, and especially for ammo to practice.

And yes - often the shortest distance between two points is to buy used competition gear (including the rifle) off of a winner who is upgrading or getting out of the sport... Often the old stuff has to go to finance the new stuff....

Dave, your welcome. If that is what you have decided, then I guess go with it.

Benchrest shooting is a small sport and gets a little smaller every year. I go to a match every week, sometimes I do well at and other times not so well. With the level of your equipment, its really is not going to matter if a loaner gun and ammo out scores you. "I use a restored Sears Ranger that i restored myself back to factory condition, and mounted a Vortek scope on it that i also sighted in myself in my backyard, and shot Remington subsonic ammo, could not afford Eley ammo," What you need to concentrate on, is improving each week with what you have. If and when you reach a point that you want to run with the big dogs, upgrade to a Anschutz, Rem 40X or a Win 52D......... I went that route for a couple of years, learned a lot by having those rifles, H&R M12 and Kimber 82G but was never in contention to finish very well. It would have not mattered who borrowed what or was given anything. Yes I would have liked to been in the top five once in awhile, but I never blamed anyone but myself for doing poorly. The fact is, I still enjoyed what I was doing, if I did'nt, I would have quit years and many $$$ ago.

I have never meet James personally, but from reading his post and the way he interacts with others on this board, he strikes me as a really good guy. Please try to find a way to work out your differences with James and continue to shoot.

I have to hand it to our OP for heading out there to compete in a BR match with what is probably a Marlin or Savage made department store rifle against Winchester 52's and Remington 40x's. That takes some guts right there.

But it sounds like it embodies the spirit of the match... Shoot what you got. Drink coffee and talk some trash with fellow shooters....

I have to hand it to our OP for heading out there to compete in a BR match with what is probably a Marlin or Savage made department store rifle against Winchester 52's and Remington 40x's. That takes some guts right there.

But it sounds like it embodies the spirit of the match... Shoot what you got. Drink coffee and talk some trash with fellow shooters....

OK, after shooting at home at 25 yards and being very impressed with my rifle and ammo, I signed up and shot my very first official IR50/50 match yesterday.

Some observations;

1. The ammo you use at 25 yards for fun has no bearing to what you will need to get any decent scores at 50 yards. Remington Sub-Sonic does wonders and is enjoyable for me at home at 25 yards. It opened up at 50 to be of no use. This means i need to get the $10 a box stuff if I intend to be serious. This means $100 a brick...or more.

2. You need a front rest and a rear rest. The congenial generosity of the rangemaster allowed me to use both of his. They were used and kind of beat up so i will need one of...scratch that...TWO of my own. One for the front and one for the back. The front one i like was made by Bald Eagle and runs around $250 or so I was told. Guessing about $50 for the rear one. $300 total.

so, though it was a lot of fun, I need to assess if my old rifle is adequate and may need to get a $1,000 Winchester 52, or something else. That is the only other one I am familiar with. I have heard of others but don't know their model numbers.

So, though it was fun, it may require an investment of $1500 to $2000 to get going in it. Even then, does that mean I will ever win one, considering all the fancy rigs I saw there today?

Decisions, decisions.

Any advice from the rest of the membership?

Advice--get whatever equip suits your fancy. Shoot whatever ammo you can afford. Shoot and have fun. There will be others that you will never beat at every match. Just shoot to beat yourself-but have fun. Sooner or later you will win or scare the hxxl out of the pack.