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Subject: Re: Lifting Curses (was: other)
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From: nagasiva
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Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 08:30:30 GMT
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50020324 vi
"Asiya":
>>>>>> Haven't had anyone yet come to me to lift a curse. ...
>>>>>> ... try to show sympathy for their present situation and
>>>>>> explain that curses only have power if you give them that power.
how is this power given to them?
"Asiya":
> To me, making a distinction between the cursed and the delusional is
> dubious, which makes that an insignificant question.
aren't there conventional lists of symptoms for each amongst those who
*do* believe in them? is there some consistency about what is said of
the repercussions of each and how these differ within all cultures?
or shall we presume this a function of mental constructs which is very
easily influenced by cultural conditioning and education, and suggest
something strictly within their cultural milieu?
sri catyananda (cat@luckymojo.com):
>> Asiya's advice (to talk clients out of a belief that they have been
>> cursed) is useless, as both of Joel and Satyr noted.
not useless to those who have a limited patience with the random
encounter (say, on a busy streetcar in an urban area, convincing
the man he isn't cursed to have accidents by his mother-in-law :>)
or endless patience and an extended psychiatric relationship with
the client. where does the Cursed Reality end and the Land of Belief
begin? the question you are asking, about discernment between those
who are ill and those who are cursed, possessed, or whatnot, is of
import to those who do exorcisms, apparently.
(note: it was a major theme in the Exorcist films (Blatty etc.),
based on Roman Catholic models, and the very real importance given
by the church to medicinal discernment.)
>> It postulates a particular method for cursing that i call the
>> "consent of the victim" paradigm ("a curse only works if you
>> agree to believe in it")
k00l. can belief be used to *break* a curse? I mean, if someone
gets convinced that the curse is illusion or a delusion, could that
generate enough negative vibes or something to break the curse?
> Nothing has shown me otherwise. But I can see how telling someone
> that will not help when they're in a bad situation.
when the man raved at me and told me he was the King of the Devils,
that I should be worshipping him, and that he was going crazy trying
to figure out how not to be tortured because *he could never REALLY
be alone*, having achieved the Sumum Bonum, the Knowledge and
Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel, and reached the pinnacle
of spiritual experience, trying to convince him of more than that
the available assistance of all manner of psychiatric or spiritual
help he might feel predisposed to seek out was available to him at
his activation. and though he claimed he felt cursed by this state
he was in, one moment weeping and another expounding in arrogance,
I don't think it was quite the same kind of thing as a possession,
which Christians and others say that they can drive out, or a curse,
such as was the subject of your discussion.
but I found that telling this man that the delusions weren't real
was being faithful to my care for him, and to an attendance of
ritual and ceremony which perhaps only those of the same brotherhood
would seek to endure. Asiya's advice might not apply to a client,
agreed, presuming that individual is coming to be spoken to in a
certain respectful manner within certain axioms of belief, but it
might apply in other situations.
plain speaking is sometimes exceedingly important and effective in
getting the results that one desires, however, and placing faith in
the nonexistence of the curse in order to combat it doesn't seem
completely unreasonable to me on the whole.
I keep thinking of fantasy novels with will-against-will possession-
battles, volitional-wrestling, and blatant disbelief six-shooters.
telling someone that they're deluded might balk or stun them enough
to keep them at a reasonable distance, even get them observed or
identify their peculiar curse and its remedy. if they're just
someone off the street, one's reaction is likely to vary as
compared to if it were your brother, or a housemate or neighbor.
blessed beast!
nagasiva