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Concur... I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to get a really good italian beef outside of Chicago, considering it's not exactly a particularly difficult thing to get right. If Vienna also includes dogs - then absolutely concur. The toppings get the most press as being uniquely Chicago - but people overlook the importance of a good dog to start with (though admittedly, the evils of ketchup on a dog are a lot more fun to argue about).

Good deep dish/stuffed is a close second, but unlike a fine dipped beef -- I've been able to find acceptable quality of stuffed pizza outside of Chicago.

EDIT: I might also give a shout-out to being able to find a good polish sausage, but that's a bit tougher to plant a flag on without unraveling the wide variety of sausages and clearly defining the turf.... obviously, good brats are plentiful in Wisconsin, you can find a good Italian in plenty of places, and lots of smaller burgs do a pure polish sausage well. Still, I think Chicago ought to be at least in the discussion for jack-of-all trades "best sausage", with blue ribbons in at least a couple variants.

Keep in mind the Packers played some home games at County Stadium in Milwaukee until the mid-90s. For Milwaukee I'd say Packers > Brewers > Bucks > Admirals > Wave > whatever the arena football team is.

Maryland certainly won't be a regular Rose Bowl contender, but the Terps will become more competitive than people think. Edsall just came off with a surprisingly good recruiting class considering Maryland's recent struggles, and playing in the Big Ten rather than the ACC should boost the talent on hand in College Park. At the start, expect Maryland to be slightly better than Indiana, Purdue and Minnesota, then gradually rise in the Big Ten pantheon.

Oh, and for D.C. cuisine -- the half-smoke, of course, direct from Ben's Chili Bowl (U Street and Nationals Park).

Concur... I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to get a really good italian beef outside of Chicago, considering it's not exactly a particularly difficult thing to get right. If Vienna also includes dogs - then absolutely concur. The toppings get the most press as being uniquely Chicago - but people overlook the importance of a good dog to start with (though admittedly, the evils of ketchup on a dog are a lot more fun to argue about).

Good deep dish/stuffed is a close second, but unlike a fine dipped beef -- I've been able to find acceptable quality of stuffed pizza outside of Chicago.

Agreed on all counts. It is remarkable how hard it is to find italian beef outside Chicago. I never can understand why.

"Grits" is a good guess for Atlanta food, but the fact is Atlanta has fantastic food of every sort, because Atlanta is located in a central area to a region that produces fresh produce year round.

Yeesh . . . I've always found Atlanta food to be pretty gross, even compared to other southern cities (not a patch on Birmingham, for instance, despite being richer and larger)

Maryland certainly won't be a regular Rose Bowl contender, but the Terps will become more competitive than people think. Edsall just came off with a surprisingly good recruiting class considering Maryland's recent struggles, and playing in the Big Ten rather than the ACC should boost the talent on hand in College Park. At the start, expect Maryland to be slightly better than Indiana, Purdue and Minnesota, then gradually rise in the Big Ten pantheon.

I agree with this. Particularly once the program gets its finances together, I think there's no reason why Maryland shouldn't be a mid-tier B1G program; though if the realignment is (as they are hinting) geographical, Maryland will be stuck in a damn hard division.

Concur... I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to get a really good italian beef outside of Chicago, considering it's not exactly a particularly difficult thing to get right. If Vienna also includes dogs - then absolutely concur. The toppings get the most press as being uniquely Chicago

agree with this. In Milwaukee it is easy to find, in Indy, it has proven elusive. I'm really surprised the Italian Beef hasn't fully taken hold the way a cheesesteak has coast to coast.

I think that if you were to strip out the 'scene' folks -- I would suspect that the Sox and Cubs really aren't all that far apart in terms of support (and I say this as a Cubs fan), it's just that virtually every 'casual' fan in the city tends to go north side. My bet would be that if you had some sort of litmus test -- let's say, name the everyday lineup, starting rotation, manager, and say -- top 3 prospects; the Cubs and Sox probably come out near even on the numbers. It's really more a matter of the fact that pink hatters, trixies, and frat boys head to wrigleyville almost exclusively (and I say that as a not-completely reformed frat boy).

As an addendum to the previously mentioned M-K-D study, here's the most popular license plates for the five Chicagoland professional sports teams (in the order they became available). Anecdotally, the top team is not surprising, as I see far more Hawks plates than any of the others.

Blackhawks 7,266
Cubs 3,771
Bears 3,026
Bulls 1,083
Sox 1,862

The Blackhawks' domination of licenses plates makes sense; generally, die hard Hawks fans are Die Hard Hawks Fans, with every other sport coming in a very distant second.

With the baseball/football split, you get a lot of people who grew up both a Bears fan and a Sox or Cubs fan, and don't really favor one sport's team over the other. I know that's how I am, and how very many of my friends are (on both sides of the Sox/Cubs aisle).

At the start, expect Maryland to be slightly better than Indiana, Purdue and Minnesota, then gradually rise in the Big Ten pantheon.

Good luck with that, but those don't seem to be particularly realistic expectations. There's nothing the "B1G East" has to offer that the ACC didn't. (And a lot that it doesn't, most notably the basketball rivalries with Duke and Carolina.)

The B1G's foray into DC and New Jersey is a play on cable TV channel bundling (*), which is doomed to fail and end. It's the perfect example of buying at a top, so we have to hand it to Maryland and Rutgers for selling at a top.

(*) Which is to say, that when Maryland and Rutgers have to bring in people actually interested in them, as opposed to the millions of NY and DC homes who temporaily have to buy a bunch of other stuff to get the Big Ten Network, or who have to pay for the Big Ten Network even though they never watch it, the play will be exposed as the folly that it is.

Then you're doing it wrong. There are hundreds of great places to eat in Atlanta, at all price ranges.

You need to get out more. I ####### love food, and I love eating, and I love eating everywhere. and Atlanta is definitely below average as American cities go in terms of food. Hell, its below average in its own state; I generally have much better food elsewhere in Georgia, as long as decor isn't your thing.

So much this. If the Lions were ever any good, they would own Detroit. Own it. (Imagine if the Lions had been as successful as the Red Wings the last two decades: perennial contender, numerous playoff wins, a Super Bowl title or three. Detroit sports radio would never talk about anybody else, ever.)

Thirded. Detroit would blow up if the Lions ever made a serious run. Go back and and rewatch the home playoff game against Dallas in 1991 -- Summerall and Madden regularly noted how loud it was in the Silverdome and there were times you can barely hear them over the din.

The B1G's foray into DC and New Jersey is a play on cable TV channel bundling, which is doomed to fail and end. It's the perfect example of buying at a top, so we have to hand it to Maryland and Rutgers for selling at a top.

Given how well Delaney and company handle network creation to start with and really exceeded anyone's expectations, I'm not betting against anything they do... Given the B1G's struggles on the gridiron, the fact that the conference is probably making bigger TV buck than much more successful (on the field) conferences has to mean something.

I'm not saying that bundling ISN'T doomed in the long-term, but I very much expect that the conference is well/better positioned to adjust and adapt as necessary... that's the beauty of essentially building it yourself as opposed to essentially sourcing it via contract. I know they switched a year or so back from a 51% conf majority share to FSN 51% majority (which I didn't like), but the conference still has, I think, a far greater control of its media distribution destiny than any other conference.

Atlanta has a ton of great restaurants, same as pretty much any big city. It's not up to top-of-the-line San Fran, NYC, or Chicago standards, but it's in that mid-tier. I'm not sure there's a real 'cuisine' here, though. It's not really a Southern town, though there are a few decent Southern restaurants. There's a lot more great ethnic fare than one would expect. Also BBQ. Hmmm. Can we call 'The Varsity' a type of cuisine?

Atlanta is, as noted, a college football town first and foremost. It's 90% of what they talk about on sports radio. The Falcons have probably overtaken the Braves recently. The Braves have a pretty strong following, though the fanbase is more the Southeast than Atlanta proper (thanks to all the transplants). The Hawks haven't garnered much interest since they traded Dominique away. And hockey...well, there's a small but loyal fanbase and unfortunately the teams were never good enough to expand that fanbase.

With a sustained run of success over the rest of the decade (and a World Series title or two), the Nationals could very well dent into the Redskins' dominance.

With a sustained run of success over the rest of the decade (and a World Series title or two), the Nationalsany major league franchise excepting, probably, the Blue Jays could very well dent into the Redskins'the currently dominant franchise's dominance.

I was only referring to Washington in my comment, but the generic point is also unarguable.

As much as one might like to pretend that the signature cuisine item of Toronto is Dim Sum, or such, it's very clearly a maple dip and a double-double. No way around that truth.

Except that is completely ridiculous because Tim Hortons is nothing close to unique to Toronto. They are ubiquitous all across the country. It would be like saying the signature cuisine of any particular yank city is a big Mac and large fries.

Maple dip and double double may well be the Canadian signature,but like in so many things, Toronto can #### right off in claiming it for itself.

I think the most accurate way to put it would be that Chicago is a baseball town but its most popular team is the Bears because fan loyalty isn't split between two teams like it is with baseball.

Given the lack of fan support for the White Sox, I don't see this as that good an argument.

Agreed. It's a great baseball town (and a great basketball town), but the Bears are so obviously and clearly #1 it's not even a question.

The Bulls are city's favorite bandwagon team; once Jordan left, the UC became pretty much a place for people to entertain clients during basketball season.

And yet, the Bulls still consistently led the NBA in attendance in the period post-MJ and pre-Rose. So while there's plenty of bandwagoning (and that happens for colleges when NU or NIU or UI are rarely successful at something), the Bulls are not as bandwagonny as you say here, IMO.

We might see "Boston = baseball town" really put to the test now with the team about to go thru a rough patch with the city/metro area's other three Big Four franchises enjoying various levels of prosperity. Pretty much anyone can root for a consistent winner, and while any franchise needs fair weather fans (or else there's no incentive to win anything - see Maple Leafs, Toronto or Cubs, Chicago) it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

The last stretch the Red Sox were mostly not in the running, the Bruins and Celtics were awful and the Patriots were wildly inconsistent.

Similarly, my theory remains that Boston isn't a particularly strong football market. At some point the Patriots will be bad again. Now fans will have the 2001-20xx stretch (3 SB wins, 5 wins, 7 AFC title games and counting..) to be nostalgic about, something that wasn't true during those years the franchise was thinking of leaving which might sustain them.

Hockey..well, after years of alienating fans, maybe the B's have turned it around. Jeremy Jacobs isn't particularly liked, but lots of folks in New England have hockey in the blood and that has to count for something.

I'm always amazed at how difficult it is to get a really good italian beef outside of Chicago, considering it's not exactly a particularly difficult thing to get right.

I find this to be a weird quirk of a lot of regional dishes, especially given the ease of travel over the last 50 years. I had never even heard of Italian Beef until I moved to Champaign. I've still never seen Goetta anywhere, though I've heard of it. Poutine is starting to make its way south and west, though I still only really see it at foodie type places, and it doesn't appear to have originated as a real high end delicacy. You would think the appeal of fries, gravy, and cheese would be pretty universal. Same with marinated sliced beef and sausage made from various meats and oats. though I suppose there are versions of those things in many places (I just picked up some bangers and white pudding at an English shop this weekend, and I suppose white pudding is a cultural analog to Goetta).

In some places these differences make more sense. Fish tacos in San Diego. Green Chili in New Mexico/Colorado. Chowder in New England. But you would think beef and bread (or bread crumbs) would be pretty universal.

Agreed. It's a great baseball town (and a great basketball town), but the Bears are so obviously and clearly #1 it's not even a question.

The Bulls are city's favorite bandwagon team; once Jordan left, the UC became pretty much a place for people to entertain clients during basketball season.

And yet, the Bulls still consistently led the NBA in attendance in the period post-MJ and pre-Rose. So while there's plenty of bandwagoning (and that happens for colleges when NU or NIU or UI are rarely successful at something), the Bulls are not as bandwagonny as you say here, IMO.'

Now, my experience is far more Chicagoland than Chicago, but I'd say that the Bears are the only team that everyone pulls for, but the passion for the baseball teams is equal to or greater than the passion for the Bears.

Maple dip and double double may well be the Canadian signature,but like in so many things, Toronto can #### right off in claiming it for itself.

The same complaint can be made about a lot of the suggestions. When assigning cuisines to a city in the context of MLB teams, that Port Hope has more Tim Hortonses per capita is neither here nor there, eh? Even if Montreal were still around, they'd be better represented by Poutine at the Peeler's or something like that, so it'd still stick.

even during the 70's when the Bullets were among the elite of the NBA, they only sold out their regular season games against the Knicks, Celtics and Lakers

In the '60s they didn't even sell out to those teams. When I was at Hopkins, four of us walked in for a Bullets-Lakers playoff game and were able to buy tickets for contiguous seats. Not center court, to be sure, but about 15 rows off the hardwood, behind one of the baskets. (IIRC, Jerry West got his usaul 40, and Gus Johnson - Bullets' flashiest player - shot about 25% from the floor and clanged every one of his foul shots as the home team went down.) I think even the old AHL Clippers outdrew the Bullets in those days. However, the town belonged to Johnny U and company, even after Robby arrived and the Orioles became good.

I have never once imagined Tim Hortons being associated with Toronto. With Canada, yes. Poutine on the other hand is rather obviously associated with Quebec specifically and not Canada in general. Although not Montreal precisely either.

I've still never seen Goetta anywhere, though I've heard of it. Poutine is starting to make its way south and west, though I still only really see it at foodie type places, and it doesn't appear to have originated as a real high end delicacy. You would think the appeal of fries, gravy, and cheese would be pretty universal. Same with marinated sliced beef and sausage made from various meats and oats. though I suppose there are versions of those things in many places (I just picked up some bangers and white pudding at an English shop this weekend, and I suppose white pudding is a cultural analog to Goetta).

I hope Primanti's can franchise to the world, but no. The origins of Pittsburgh's food wheelhouse run from Germany and Italy east to Poland and Lebanon. There's also a neverending quest for a good fish sandwich.

Atlanta has a ton of great restaurants, same as pretty much any big city. It's not up to top-of-the-line San Fran, NYC, or Chicago standards, but it's in that mid-tier. I'm not sure there's a real 'cuisine' here, though. It's not really a Southern town, though there are a few decent Southern restaurants. There's a lot more great ethnic fare than one would expect. Also BBQ. Hmmm. Can we call 'The Varsity' a type of cuisine?

If I had to pick an "Atlanta" specific food, in line with Chicago dogs or NY pizza/bagels, I'd probably go with either a Varsity chili dog or, per RoyalsRetro @75, a Chic-Fil-A chicken sandwich. But to your point, which was my original point, anyone who visits Atlanta and complains about the food just isn't looking very hard. (My new favorite low- to mid-priced fare is Bone Lick BBQ's ribs. On the higher end, dinner at Miller Union in early summer, when the spring harvests are coming in from the surrounding area farms, is unreal. And Curly's Fried Chicken is the best fried chicken I've ever had, anywhere.

Atlanta is, as noted, a college football town first and foremost. It's 90% of what they talk about on sports radio. The Falcons have probably overtaken the Braves recently. The Braves have a pretty strong following, though the fanbase is more the Southeast than Atlanta proper (thanks to all the transplants). The Hawks haven't garnered much interest since they traded Dominique away. And hockey...well, there's a small but loyal fanbase and unfortunately the teams were never good enough to expand that fanbase.

So....College Football > NFL > MLB > NBA > NHL.

The only point I'd make here is that college football so vastly outstrips anything else that it needs to be sort of in a zone of it's own. College football, most universally SEC football, is to Atlanta as the Maple Leafs are to Toronto. Yes, other sports draw well enough (barring hockey, which can only ever generate about 8000 loyal fans - enough to warrant the minor league team in Gwinnett, but not enough to support an NHL franchise) if they're winning, but nothing gets close to football Saturdays.

The Braves do suffer, attendance wise, from the very dispersed fan base.

wow, no love for new orleans food in this thread? per square mile, the city has better cuisine than anywhere in the country except for maybe nyc and san fran.

as for dominant franchises, i think with the death of jerry buss and the general cr@pitude and surliness of the current laker squad, the lakers and the dodgers are going in opposite directions. its up to the dodgers to start winning.

I think an MLS team would have a better following, if they played in the Norcross/Chamblee northern surburbs, than hockey. The Falcons are currently ascendant as the favored professional sport, but if the Upton Gambit pays off and Matt Ryan gets injured or something, the Braves could retake that title easily. The Hawks have far too much work to do before they get back into the hunt.

But to your point, which was my original point, anyone who visits Atlanta and complains about the food just isn't looking very hard. (My new favorite low- to mid-priced fare is Bone Lick BBQ's ribs. On the higher end, dinner at Miller Union in early summer, when the spring harvests are coming in from the surrounding area farms, is unreal. And Curly's Fried Chicken is the best fried chicken I've ever had, anywhere.

Having grown up in Southern California, I'm a big fan of quality Mexican food, which isn't easy to find in Chicago. But last time I was in Atlanta (probably four years ago or so) there were two really good Mexican restaurants: Taqueria Del Sol and La Neuvo Laredo. Highly recommend both.

wow, no love for new orleans food in this thread? per square mile, the city has better cuisine than anywhere in the country except for maybe nyc and san fran.

Well, no major league baseball team, so they got left out ;-)

But if we're just talking food, New Orleans is most definitely in my top 5 nationwide... I will say this - I've only ever really had the regional fare in NO, so I don't know to what extent you can find the variety of what you might find in NYC, DC, Chicago, etc - but I'm such a fan of cajun/creole cooking that it's absolutely among my favorites.

I'd still take Chicago after everyone but NYC (admittedly, that's probably also hometown bias and just knowing the places) -- but depending on what I'm in the mood for, I'd probably flip a coin between NO and SF at #3...

I guess I'd assume something in the area of steaks -- but you can get a good steak virtually anywhere and that's especially true of any place in between, say, the appalachians and rockies. Even most smaller burgs in the plains/midwest can boast at least one outstanding steakhouse.

If I had to pick an "Atlanta" specific food, in line with Chicago dogs or NY pizza/bagels, I'd probably go with either a Varsity chili dog or, per RoyalsRetro @75, a Chic-Fil-A chicken sandwich. But to your point, which was my original point, anyone who visits Atlanta and complains about the food just isn't looking very hard. (My new favorite low- to mid-priced fare is Bone Lick BBQ's ribs. On the higher end, dinner at Miller Union in early summer, when the spring harvests are coming in from the surrounding area farms, is unreal. And Curly's Fried Chicken is the best fried chicken I've ever had, anywhere.

Agreed with regards to fried chicken being as good an Atlanta food as any.

But the rest of your posts just illustrates the weakness of Atlanta food. Chili dogs; sure, the Varsity is famous, but half a dozen mid-tier US cities think of chili dogs / coneys as their local speciality. Is there any special feature of the Varsity dog compared to, say, a Detroit coney? I don't think so, really, at least in any material way. Whereas the Chicago dog (or the Albany steamed dog, to pick another example) are really different than what's going on elsewhere. The barbecue in Atlanta is OK compared to the North, but inferior to pretty much everywhere else in Georgia - famously, the one thing you can't get in Atlanta is top 'cue. You get the same problem as Charlotte.

And as for the locavore/haute southern stuff like Miller Union, I'm sure its tasty, but its derivative of something that was going on everywhere else in the country (with respect to the locavorism) or Birmingham (with respect to the haute-southern, which was really started by guys like Frank Stitt 20-30 years ago, or even up by DC at the Inn at Little Washington). Other cities have delicious restaurants for foodies as well, but they also have food that is unique or fresh or just at all distinctive. Atlanta is just food, boring food, and there are more and less expensive versions and some talented chefs but ultimately blah.

Pittsburgh is a football town. It was a football town in the 60s when the Pirates were (mostly) good and the Steelers (mostly) weren't, and once the Steelers became good they left the Pirates in the dust. One could make a good argument that the Penguins have moved ahead of the Pirates, too, although that's mostly star power and it will be interesting to see what happens if they don't remain good.

Respectfully disagree ... I think Chicago's a horrible basketball town, Bulls' attendance notwithstanding. Northwestern averages less than 6,000 per game in basketball, despite playing in the third largest market in the country and having top-flight Big Ten opponents come into Evanston all winter long. I regularly attend DePaul games and their posted attendance figures are an outright lie - they have crowds in the range of 1,500 most nights against Big East opponents.

Basketball and hockey fan bases are extremely regional in Chicago. I live in the Southwest Suburbs - a city unto itself, sort of - and it's all Bears/Blackhawks/White Sox. The Bulls might as well not even exist. People tend to be either Sox fans OR Cub fans, Bulls fans OR Hawk fans. The Bears benefit from the fact that the Cardinals moved to St. Louis back in 1960 and, for some reason (*cough* Halas *cough*), an AFL/AFC team never replaced them. Everybody follows the Bears.

Oh, and by the way, the food is great here. We're chubby for a reason.

Baseball's pretty lucky. There's not many markets where baseball isn't number one or with a realistic chance to be number one with a successful run - the exceptions are places like Toronto, where the 2nd place Jays drew 4 million for 3 years in a row in the early 90s, or places like Miami which have a horribly mismanaged franchise.

By comparison, there's several hockey teams that could win 3-4 Cups in a row and never be more than an afterthought in their local area, or basketball teams that are two losing seasons away from thousands of empty seats in their arena.

Baseball's pretty lucky. There's not many markets where baseball isn't number one or with a realistic chance to be number one with a successful run - the exceptions are places like Toronto, where the 2nd place Jays drew 4 million for 3 years in a row in the early 90s, or places like Miami which have a horribly mismanaged franchise.

And basebal is the only sport that doesn't have a single market to itself. Every other sport has at least two cities it doesn't share with another member of the Big 4.

Miami...what a farce. Part of it is a relatively small native population. But still, it's something like the 12th biggest media market in the country. And populated by: Cubans, who love baseball; New York/New England retirees, who tend to love baseball; and large numbers of other Caribbean-area types, many of whom also love baseball.

Apart from Loria, another big problem is that South Florida isn't a great place to spend lots of time outdoors during the summer, unless perhaps you're right next to the ocean.

But the rest of your posts just illustrates the weakness of Atlanta food. Chili dogs; sure, the Varsity is famous, but half a dozen mid-tier US cities think of chili dogs / coneys as their local speciality. Is there any special feature of the Varsity dog compared to, say, a Detroit coney?

Style and flare from the order? Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel? Not really. Just the idea that NYC does bagels better than elsewhere.

But is there any definition of market that would place Green Bay in Milwaukee's?

The Packers played three or four regular season games a year in Milwaukee for years and those fans are still season ticket holders through the Packers Gold package.

I'd guess that Green Bay people are inclined to root for the Brewers and maybe the Bucks if they care about hoops. Milwaukee's definitely inclined to root for the Packers - IMO they function as the de facto Milwaukee market team. I'm not sure the Packers are still in Green Bay if they had to compete with a Milwaukee Barons NFL team.

The Packers played three or four regular season games a year in Milwaukee for years and those fans are still season ticket holders through the Packers Gold package.

I'd guess that Green Bay people are inclined to root for the Brewers and maybe the Bucks if they care about hoops. Milwaukee's definitely inclined to root for the Packers - IMO they function as the de facto Milwaukee market team. I'm not sure the Packers are still in Green Bay if they had to compete with a Milwaukee Barons NFL team.

I wouldn't deny any of that. But the same can be said of poeple from Portland, Maine about the Red Sox or Salt Lake City and the Broncos. Just because a particular area identifies with a sports team doesn't place that city in that market.

But if it helps, how about this: Baseball is the only sport that doesn't have a Metropolitan Statistical Area all to itself. All the other leagues have at least two teams that fit that profile.

I realize LA is known for many other things (food trucks, various Asian delicacies, etc.), but I find the mom & pop doughnut shops at every corner strip mall to be an awesome part of LA. Seattle has a bit of that, too.

The NFL considers Milwaukee a Green Bay home market (for purposes of TV blackout rules), which makes sense particularly given the decades long run as a home venue for 3 regular season games. Milwaukee frequently finishes extremely high in NFL metered markets for Nielsen. The flagship AM broadcast for the Packers is a Milwaukee radio station (WTMJ), it is by any sensible definition, in the Green Bay Packers market, even if not part of the 'MSA' as defined by U.S. OMB. When there are conflicts between Packers and Brewers games on WTMJ, I can assure you it is the Brewers that get shoved down the dial to another station, not the Packers.

The NFL considers Milwaukee a Green Bay home market (for purposes of TV blackout rules), which makes sense particularly given the decades long run as a home venue for 3 regular season games. Milwaukee frequently finishes extremely high in NFL metered markets for Nielsen. The flagship AM broadcast for the Packers is a Milwaukee radio station (WTMJ), it is by any sensible definition, in the Green Bay Packers market, even if not part of the 'MSA' as defined by U.S. OMB. When there are conflicts between Packers and Brewers games on WTMJ, I can assure you it is the Brewers that get shoved down the dial to another station, not the Packers.

Nevermind. It was just an observation that every MLB team actually shares a city with another major pro sports franchise (something that isn't true of the other three leagues), not the absurd idea that Milwaukee didn't have an NFL team to root for.

You know, the Varsity chili dog isn't even all that good.
As for Taqueria del Sol, that's a chain, albeit one started in Atlanta... one opened not that far from me (that I plan on trying soon - I hear it's okay, but I'm spoiled by pretty good Mexican options). What, is LA's food In N' Out Burger?

All the food stories I've heard about Oakland seem to involve bean pies, but I doubt that's representative. Locavorism as an East Bay thing works, I guess (says the guy who has never been there).

I realize LA is known for many other things (food trucks, various Asian delicacies, etc.), but I find the mom & pop doughnut shops at every corner strip mall to be an awesome part of LA. Seattle has a bit of that, too.

its weird, its like every asian that came over to L.A. thought a doughnut shop would be a good idea, and then they all hang on. some of them serve other food, which can get interesting.

Nevermind. It was just an observation that every MLB team actually shares a city with another major pro sports franchise (something that isn't true of the other three leagues).

gotcha and I think it has been that way for some time.

You know, the Varsity chili dog isn't even all that good.

Varsity itself isn't all that good. What popped in my head was my memory of Ed Debevic's (Chicago) and wondering out loud how the place was still in business. When the draw is the shtick of the employees, its a sign the place has got nothin'.

I've eaten at the Varsity once in my 25 years in Atlanta, and that was...25 years ago. Never felt a desire to go back. But, it's an icon...something you do when visiting ATL, taking in the atmosphere and enjoying the experience. If you want actual *good* food, there are a few hundred better choices.

But then again, Philly cheesesteaks and that shaved beef thing from Chicago aren't that good either.

The best cheesesteak I've ever had was at The White House in Atlantic City. I suppose it's pretty close to Philly, though.

I eat more crappy food now that I live in Manhattan than ever before. There are so many places to try and a good number of them are terrible, but there's always the chance that you find a real gem. I don't even have a consistently great pizza place in my neighborhood. I mean, it's NYC pizza so compared to most other places, the "crappy" pizza is still really good, but it seems like the really great stuff is in Brooklyn and Queens.

It's interesting that there are several US cities with only an MLB and NFL team. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Seattle (for the time being) and San Diego. You would think they would be the two most difficult leagues to support two teams in if you're a small or medium-sized city.

It's interesting that there are several US cities with only an MLB and NFL team. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Seattle (for the time being) and San Diego. You would think they would be the two most difficult leagues to support two teams in if you're a small or medium-sized city.

It's interesting that there are several US cities with only an MLB and NFL team. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Seattle (for the time being) and San Diego. You would think they would be the two most difficult leagues to support two teams in if you're a small or medium-sized city.

The NFL only has 10 home dates a year. You could put a team in Terre Haute, IN (or say Green Bay, WI) and it would sell out.

Style and flare from the order? Is there anything structurally special about a NYC bagel? Not really. Just the idea that NYC does bagels better than elsewhere.

If you dont understand or aren't knowledgable about food, that doesn't mean you should loudly proclaim the brilliance of your local cuisine. It means you should be happy you haven't noticed the shadows in the cave and step aside.

Oh yeah, because italian beef and cincinatti chili and milwaukee fish fry, thats the food of the elites.

That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.

Oh yeah, because italian beef and cincinatti chili and milwaukee fish fry, thats the food of the elites.

That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.

I've eaten at the Varsity once in my 25 years in Atlanta, and that was...25 years ago. Never felt a desire to go back. But, it's an icon...something you do when visiting ATL, taking in the atmosphere and enjoying the experience. If you want actual *good* food, there are a few hundred better choices.

This is The Varsity in a nutshell. It's a tourist trap. The food is very greasy and fatty, and nothing special taste-wise. The reason to go there is because it's famous (and maybe to experience the rudeness of the staff). Once you've been there, there's no reason to go back.

I am by no means a foodie, but I can't come up with an iconic "Atlanta food." Certainly nothing like oysters or shrimp & grits are to Charleston.

That's what I don't get about the people complaining that there is no good Italian beef outside of Chicago. My first thought was "Who cares?" That's something most people eat once every two or three months at the most.

Such people have no souls... I probably have a good dipped beef from either portillos, murphy's, Al's, Nemos, or about a dozen other places once a week.

Chicago - Goose Island?

Well it continues to try like the Dickens to overcompensate -- I would say that ever since Goose Island got bought out (Annheiser Busch, I think?) -- it's really been more 'marketing driven' to call them a Chicago beer.... I just toured the brewery a few months back and while they do still brew and do creations locally - I really do get the sense that an awful lot of what you can find now is more a 'branding' operation, i.e., "312" or "Green Line" is sort of 'Chicago' in the sense that hey, we slapped a clever Chicago name on it.

The local craft beer of choice nowadays is probably coming out of Half Acre....

Well it continues to try like the Dickens to overcompensate -- I would say that ever since Goose Island got bought out (Annheiser Busch, I think?) -- it's really been more 'marketing driven' to call them a Chicago beer.... I just toured the brewery a few months back and while they do still brew and do creations locally - I really do get the sense that an awful lot of what you can find now is more a 'branding' operation, i.e., "312" or "Green Line" is sort of 'Chicago' in the sense that hey, we slapped a clever Chicago name on it.

312 was introduced in (IIRC) 2004 and so long predates the Anheuser-Busch takeover. That said, it's now produced in upstate New York.

The best cheesesteak I've ever had was at The White House in Atlantic City. I suppose it's pretty close to Philly, though.

I won't claim it's on par with what you'd find in Philly proper -- but Philly's Best in Chicago is pretty good... I know they get their meat from the same place that either Pats or Genos in Philly proper does and they do use Amoroso rolls.