Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 30, 2014 15:23:18 GMT -5

People are WAY to sensitive about this. You are not a second class citizen because you're forced to go through a probationary period to post on a board. That's becoming an industry standard.

I will use my first journey into IROO as an example on this. I had 2 others in our group for 2012 in an RV and we were looking for people to fill spots. We ended up finding a great addition and a few other candidates that didn't pan out through postings. If we had to wait for a period that never would have happened. If we were told you can't post for X amount of time or can't have full access then we probably would have gone elsewhere to find our others.

Trust me when I say we are well aware of people signing up close to (or days before) the festival looking for rides or carpoolers or something like that. If we are able to do it (which I believe we are but still have to look into things more) we'd probably allow new members to post in that sub-forum as well. That section of the board tends to be drama free as it's primarily directions/advice or rideshares.

Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 30, 2014 15:24:38 GMT -5

I still don't like it, but that's why you guys are mods and I am not. I guess you all know best.

We don't know best. We're just festival-going, normal folks like everyone else. If we felt we knew best it wouldn't even be up for discussion and we'd just do a bunch of stuff without asking for opinions/questions.

Post by Dave Maynar on Jan 30, 2014 16:07:19 GMT -5

I would also say that there will have to be a sizeable commitment of veterans posting in the public areas for this idea to work even if it means they would have to be nicer than usual (Flanz). Also, I think the idea would make or break off the selection of what subforums will be public and what ones won't. Lastly, I'd still rather there be exploration into less severe measures for this. A lot could be accomplished by people just being nicer.

Post by wolfmanjess on Jan 30, 2014 16:14:43 GMT -5

seriously, I just hate to do anything that would make a new member feel marginalized at all. We don't want to create an elitist aura. That's not the Inforoo that I joined and love.

There's not going to be an elitist aura because everyone (except for clear trolls) would end up on the main boards anyway. There's not going to be anybody who is left out because they "aren't one of the elite". Think of it more like training wheels and less like keeping people out. One of the benefits in this is that we can tell early on if someone seems genuine or if they're going to cause problems.

It's not like we're splitting inforoo up and putting some members here and some members there. It's pretty much just a "Hey, thanks for joining our board. Before you start posting in the main sections check out these couple of informative threads, introduce yourself here, and post a bunch in our new members section before you make your way to the main threads."

Everyone learns to crawl before they walk. Unlike sometimes on here where you get people trying to run at full speed right when they sign up but their legs haven't even fully formed yet.

Well still not sure what you guys are thinking but I am not going to be on board with a program that only "graduates" people after a member vouches for them or elects them to the board. That is going to cause nothing but trouble it needs to be an arbitrary number with some exceptions to go early.

Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 30, 2014 16:27:44 GMT -5

There's not going to be an elitist aura because everyone (except for clear trolls) would end up on the main boards anyway. There's not going to be anybody who is left out because they "aren't one of the elite". Think of it more like training wheels and less like keeping people out. One of the benefits in this is that we can tell early on if someone seems genuine or if they're going to cause problems.

It's not like we're splitting inforoo up and putting some members here and some members there. It's pretty much just a "Hey, thanks for joining our board. Before you start posting in the main sections check out these couple of informative threads, introduce yourself here, and post a bunch in our new members section before you make your way to the main threads."

Everyone learns to crawl before they walk. Unlike sometimes on here where you get people trying to run at full speed right when they sign up but their legs haven't even fully formed yet.

Well still not sure what you guys are thinking but I am not going to be on board with a program that only "graduates" people after a member vouches for them or elects them to the board. That is going to cause nothing but trouble it needs to be an arbitrary number with some exceptions to go early.

Did I say they would ONLY graduate after someone vouches for them? I don't think I did but if so I apologize. That's not what is going on. "Vouching" for someone would be if like your cousin signed up on the board and understood how to post on a message board and not troll threads or if you popped your head into the new member section and saw someone posting some helpful/informative stuff and felt that deserved a lift out of the kiddie pool then we'd take that into consideration. It would basically come down to the limit we set (time or # of posts....still not decided and likely not a high number) or the moderator's decision. Whichever came up first.

Post by FuzzyWarbles on Jan 30, 2014 16:40:00 GMT -5

The welcome PM for new account users sounds like a win to me. Maybe throw in some tips about checking to see if a thread already exists before creating one, though it's not very difficult to point this out to someone after the fact.

After awhile of posting and maybe being given tips by people who have been around a new poster will usually see the way things happen here. As far as someone you think is awful goes, in life you're going to encounter people you don't like and whose opinions you couldn't care less about. You're not really going to be able to train a person out of their personality. Personally, I like to avoid confrontational arguments, especially on an internet message board. I would suggest not getting involved in that type if thing here, though I can understand someone wanting to defend themselves after being told they are a cretin. If I think somebody is just posting a bunch of lies or unworthy info I'll usually just disregard and scroll past those posts.

As far as nominating people from a new user area, I doubt I'd take time to actually read those forums and judge someone's worthiness. Maybe others would. I know when I signed up it was about six months after my first Roo and I was just excited to discuss the upcoming lineup release. I jumped right into the fire after signing up without looking around the board much. I probably posted more than I needed to, but I quickly saw the protocol of things and am glad I wasn't regulated then or I might have never signed back in. I've grown to live the site for much more than lineup speculation and discussion. I hope many other people venturing here out of their excitement for Bonnaroo will get to do the same.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.

Post by wannaberoo'ing on Jan 30, 2014 16:41:29 GMT -5

I'm not going to be nice to people who join here (or are unfortunately allowed to be members here) and start posting a whole bunch of woefully ignorant, sexist, racist, or otherwise hateful comments directed at artists or members of this board.

Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 30, 2014 16:48:25 GMT -5

So if you guys make this will you grandfather in everyone who is currently registered ?

It would only be for brand new members and you would have already more than qualified. We're not talking about weeks or months in the new member area and also not talking about hundreds of posts.

Nobody who is currently a member would be put in there. It's not like if we decide you need a certain number of posts that we'll find all the members who are under that specific number and shuttle them into the new area. It's literally just for brand new people.

Post by Pops on Jan 30, 2014 16:52:24 GMT -5

So as usual, my take on this might be different than other folks'. It probably comes from me being an older person (much older to a lot of you), but it might also just come from the fact that I'm weird. It is my opinion that the greatest problem Inforoo has is no different than the one that the internet, writ large, has - taking things at the level of seriousness they deserve. If someone is being racist or homophobic or a similar form of ignorant - to me, that's serious and warrants response. If someone posts the same stupid joke, time after time after time, that's annoying and warrants a joke response in turn. If a troll is crushing the board with nonsense, that's attention-seeking and should be rewarded by being completely ignored, but we all sometimes have a hard time doing that, 'cause human nature. And for a message board like this it really can hamper honest, thoughtful discourse.

So to noobs who feel too intimidated to post, who want to post but haven't for some reason, here's a story. When I first came here, I did two stupid things right away - I questioned insider's authenticity and I got upset with Juggs. So I had about five posts and -20 karma points before I knew what hit me. But there was cool stuff being discussed and I wanted to talk about music and specifically, Bonnaroo. I stepped back and watched things without posting for a while after that, maybe two months, I don't remember. I was able to gauge the rhythm and flow of the place, who you could joke with, whose posts you should just breeze by without reading, etc. I came back but only posted in a couple of threads and, waters tested, expanded from there. And with the Juggs thing - as with most people, if you make solid points or use some intelligence, it can actually be fun to argue. The less emotion and more thought, the more fun it is for me, generally. This approach to becoming a more frequent poster may not work for everyone, but it worked for me.

To the larger issue at hand, though. I've been asking myself if I'd have minded a probationary period or whatever you want to call what's being discussed, and the answer is no, I would not have minded, because I kind of did that to myself anyway. However, I really don't think this will solve the problem of taking things at the appropriate level of seriousness. Anyone who wishes to wreak havoc and knows how to push buttons can fly through anything being discussed here and come out swinging when it's lifted. And the fact is, it doesn't do anything about all the knuckleheads who have already freely scaled the wall. Banning is not a solution, editing and deleting posts is most definitely not a solution. The best solution is people just having god-damned common sense and posting something worthwhile every once in a while solves most problems. But some people just want to watch the world burn, and I don't know that any time limit or post count will be able to determine who those people are. I don't have a better answer, and I do feel that some of the really cool musical (and other) discussion that went on here has been missing of late, so maybe we give the probationary period a, if you will, probationary period. In other words, can whatever is being implemented be for some specified period of time, whereupon people can debate whether things have gotten better/worse/same and revisit its effectiveness?

Post by wannaberoo'ing on Jan 30, 2014 17:10:07 GMT -5

To the larger issue at hand, though. I've been asking myself if I'd have minded a probationary period or whatever you want to call what's being discussed, and the answer is no, I would not have minded, because I kind of did that to myself anyway. However, I really don't think this will solve the problem of taking things at the appropriate level of seriousness. Anyone who wishes to wreak havoc and knows how to push buttons can fly through anything being discussed here and come out swinging when it's lifted. And the fact is, it doesn't do anything about all the knuckleheads who have already freely scaled the wall. Banning is not a solution, editing and deleting posts is most definitely not a solution. The best solution is people just having god-damned common sense and posting something worthwhile every once in a while solves most problems. But some people just want to watch the world burn, and I don't know that any time limit or post count will be able to determine who those people are. I don't have a better answer, and I do feel that some of the really cool musical (and other) discussion that went on here has been missing of late, so maybe we give the probationary period a, if you will, probationary period. In other words, can whatever is being implemented be for some specified period of time, whereupon people can debate whether things have gotten better/worse/same and revisit its effectiveness?

I feel the shadow board could curtail and, at the very least, slow down the influx of trolls at times. It seems that some days we had two, even three, join and attack in one afternoon (jasperoo and roo14 for instance trolling the Kanye thread in tandem one the same day)

Post by Boner on Jan 30, 2014 17:16:24 GMT -5

I'm on board with the probationary period/ nomination idea. But if most of the trouble occurs in the Which stage, just limit that area until the time period or nomination or whatever. I also agree with Jess. Lots of people sign up, look around, see camp inforoo thread, or ride share, or what ever, and dive right in. They then see the headliner thread, confirmation thread, Kanye thread, and see posts they completely disagree with and are just completely shocked someone actually listens to Kanye, They then type out a bonehead comment, hit creat post and... "Oh, I have to wait until I can post in here, I see". They continue to read, learn a thing or two on how things operate, and when they can post, are not filled with that initial shock and desire to put things straight.

Maybe just a scan of the board to find the troubled areas, and putting the locks on them to new people for a little bit.

Post by Pops on Jan 30, 2014 17:17:12 GMT -5

To the larger issue at hand, though. I've been asking myself if I'd have minded a probationary period or whatever you want to call what's being discussed, and the answer is no, I would not have minded, because I kind of did that to myself anyway. However, I really don't think this will solve the problem of taking things at the appropriate level of seriousness. Anyone who wishes to wreak havoc and knows how to push buttons can fly through anything being discussed here and come out swinging when it's lifted. And the fact is, it doesn't do anything about all the knuckleheads who have already freely scaled the wall. Banning is not a solution, editing and deleting posts is most definitely not a solution. The best solution is people just having god-damned common sense and posting something worthwhile every once in a while solves most problems. But some people just want to watch the world burn, and I don't know that any time limit or post count will be able to determine who those people are. I don't have a better answer, and I do feel that some of the really cool musical (and other) discussion that went on here has been missing of late, so maybe we give the probationary period a, if you will, probationary period. In other words, can whatever is being implemented be for some specified period of time, whereupon people can debate whether things have gotten better/worse/same and revisit its effectiveness?

I feel the shadow board could curtail and, at the very least, slow down the influx of trolls at times. It seems that some days we had two, even three, join and attack in one afternoon (jasperoo and roo14 for instance trolling the Kanye thread in tandem one the same day)

Yeah, I think that may be where my thoughts were heading toward the end as I was typing, even thought I didn't actually say it. The other thing I left out is that it is well-intentioned to say that being nice would solve the problems - but as I said above, unfortunately some people want to watch the world burn and sometimes being "nice" just means you get all burnt up.

Post by Dave Maynar on Jan 30, 2014 17:31:02 GMT -5

I feel the shadow board could curtail and, at the very least, slow down the influx of trolls at times. It seems that some days we had two, even three, join and attack in one afternoon (jasperoo and roo14 for instance trolling the Kanye thread in tandem one the same day)

Yeah, I think that may be where my thoughts were heading toward the end as I was typing, even thought I didn't actually say it. The other thing I left out is that it is well-intentioned to say that being nice would solve the problems - but as I said above, unfortunately some people want to watch the world burn and sometimes being "nice" just means you get all burnt up.

Being nice wouldn't solve everything, for sure. I would hope we could at least agree that 20 people going nuts about someone posting tour dates that have already been posted is as unneeded as someone going on a rant after someone tells them they like crappy music.

Post by Pops on Jan 30, 2014 17:41:09 GMT -5

Yeah, I think that may be where my thoughts were heading toward the end as I was typing, even thought I didn't actually say it. The other thing I left out is that it is well-intentioned to say that being nice would solve the problems - but as I said above, unfortunately some people want to watch the world burn and sometimes being "nice" just means you get all burnt up.

Being nice wouldn't solve everything, for sure. I would hope we could at least agree that 20 people going nuts about someone posting tour dates that have already been posted is as unneeded as someone going on a rant after someone tells them they like crappy music.

Post by Flanz on Jan 30, 2014 17:43:50 GMT -5

Yeah, I think that may be where my thoughts were heading toward the end as I was typing, even thought I didn't actually say it. The other thing I left out is that it is well-intentioned to say that being nice would solve the problems - but as I said above, unfortunately some people want to watch the world burn and sometimes being "nice" just means you get all burnt up.

Being nice wouldn't solve everything, for sure. I would hope we could at least agree that 20 people going nuts about someone posting tour dates that have already been posted is as unneeded as someone going on a rant after someone tells them they like crappy music.

People keep bringing up this example...did this actually happen? Or are we exaggerating 2 or 3 people cracking on the new guy for not looking both ways before he crossed the street?

Post by Dave Maynar on Jan 30, 2014 17:53:06 GMT -5

Being nice wouldn't solve everything, for sure. I would hope we could at least agree that 20 people going nuts about someone posting tour dates that have already been posted is as unneeded as someone going on a rant after someone tells them they like crappy music.

People keep bringing up this example...did this actually happen? Or are we exaggerating 2 or 3 people cracking on the new guy for not looking both ways before he crossed the street?

20 is probably a dramatic device used to emphasize my point. It's one thing if it's something that was 5 posts ago. It's another when it's something from 20 pages ago, and I know that has happened numerous times.

Post by Flanz on Jan 30, 2014 17:54:46 GMT -5

People keep bringing up this example...did this actually happen? Or are we exaggerating 2 or 3 people cracking on the new guy for not looking both ways before he crossed the street?

20 is probably a dramatic device used to emphasize my point. It's one thing if it's something that was 5 posts ago. It's another when it's something from 20 pages ago, and I know that has happened numerous times.

I'm sure it's happened, that place is the seventh circle of hell some days. I do always try to answer legitimate questions with real answers, but those are so few and far between it's scary.

Post by Dave Maynar on Jan 30, 2014 18:08:36 GMT -5

20 is probably a dramatic device used to emphasize my point. It's one thing if it's something that was 5 posts ago. It's another when it's something from 20 pages ago, and I know that has happened numerous times.

I'm sure it's happened, that place is the seventh circle of hell some days. I do always try to answer legitimate questions with real answers, but those are so few and far between it's scary.