[SHOT 2016] Crye Precision SIX12 Update

the newest iteration on display also had the titanium cylinder (likely under a polymer outer shell)

I stopped by Crye Precision’s booth today to see what was going on with the SIX12, as nothing had really been heard about it over the last year. Unfortunately the shotgun’s lead designer wasn’t there at the time, but Caleb Crye took the time to explain to me the current state of development, and any changes that had been made. The most significant change that he pointed out to me was that the barrel and cylinders are now made out of titanium. Another thing I noticed about the cylinders is that they now do not have any cuts on the side.

A look at the titanium barrel

the newest iteration on display also had the titanium cylinder (likely under a polymer outer shell)

The receiver halves are now made out of forged aluminum instead of polymer. Caleb mentioned that they had produced 100 of these shotguns, and they were now undergoing rigorous evaluation before bringing them to the larger market as a whole. I took the opportunity to try out the trigger on the newest iteration, and I must say, it was very smooth. It did have a long pull in order to rotate the cylinder, but there wasn’t perceptible stacking. The mag release is now a smaller square button instead of the rather large round button seen in the past. The standalone units now have QD sling cups at the rear of the receiver.

The oh-so-futuristic suppressed version

The non-NFA underbarrel version

lastly, the “standalone” version. Jackyl would approve.

I can’t wait until the SIX12 can finally start “opening doors, and meeting new people.”

Having always had a passion for firearms, Rusty S. has had experience in gunsmithing, firearms retail, hunting, competitive shooting, range construction, as an IDPA certified range safety officer and a certified instructor. He has received military, law enforcement, and private training in the use of firearms. He is fortunate enough to have access to class 3 weaponry as well.

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Sianmink

Hm. Is a revolving shotgun measured from the back of the chamber for NFA barrel length? If so this could easily be one of the shortest no-stamp shotguns out there.

Jwedel1231

That’s a good question. I would almost hate to ask it (Sig brace incident) but at the same time, if I could cut 2 3/4″ off the barrel…

Sianmink

It seems barrel length is measured with a dowel, from the muzzle to the face of the bolt when it is closed.
So essentially, the answer to my question is yes.

Jwedel1231

I would put a 18″ barrel on the AR. And a Suppressor, and a Salvo 12. It would be a $6,000, 12 lb rifle. Maybe add a bipod…

Sianmink

Don’t forget a Leupold D-Evo. You also need a light. 4500 lumens should be enough.

Secundius

@ Sianmink.

Your Forgetting it’s a Revolver Shotgun! The Revolver Cylinder, itself is part of the Barrel Make-Up. So a ~3-1/2-inch Long Cylinder, allows you to Reduce the Barrel Length by ~3-1/2-inches. Actually a Petty Smart Idea…

HSR47

In my experience, barrel length with revolvers is typically measured between the muzzle and the forcing cone, not between muzzle and breach face.

Sianmink

Technically that’s true, but legally, it’s not.

HSR47

There’s no statutory method for determining barrel length, so it’s all down to the whims of the BATFE. As such, they could easily decide to follow standard industry conventions and not include the length of the cylinder in the barrel length of revolvers.

Thus far it hasn’t been an issue because revolving longarms have never really been a commercially successful product, and those that exist tend to far exceed statutory minimum barrel lengths.

If Crye wants to test the waters on this, the obvious answer is for them to send a prototype for classification where a barrel length of 18.5″ is only established by including the cylinder.

Sianmink

Well, established ATF procedure for checking barrel length is with a marked dowel rod, inserted till it stops against the closed chamber/bolt face.

By that guideline, which they would have no discernible reason to change, it’s fine.

hking

That suppressed version wins the award for being the most “Pew Pew Space Gun” at the show this year. Looks straight out of a movie set in the future.

nova3930

I want one just for the WTF looks you’d get at the range.

Evan

Get a HiPoint carbine and put an ACOG on it. You’ll get those looks. Maybe not in a good way….

BDUB

you just made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Evan

I’ve seen it once. Can’t explain why, but I have.

Kyle

The front of it really looks like the pulse rifle from Aliens that the Colonial Marines used. Shut up and take my money!

Jeremy Star

That was my first thought. Pulse Rifle!

LazyReader

You had me at Titanium

MrDakka

Coming soon to a videogame near you

Mister Thomas

The non-NFA underbarrel version does not look like it would be easy to operate.

Actually on a rifle its the same position as a grenade launcher or flare launcher would be.

Nicks87

Oh, so lets add titanium to a shotgun that is already ridiculously expensive and pointless and will probably never be sold to anybody outside of LE agencies that have huge budgets. That makes sense.///sarcasm off/// So long, Crye precision, I loved your helmets but too bad you guys couldn’t make better business decisions.

JumpIf NotZero

Just wait until people finally get a hands on this thing, add all the titanium you want, I’ve never felt a worse balancing firearm. The trigger pull you would expect to be horrendous as a DAO revolver shotgun bullpup would be, but it outmatched my expectations of just how bad 😉

It took literally 5 seconds after picking it up to realize this will likely never come to market, be extremely stupid in the under barrel setup, and that it’ll be popular in movies and video games only. Also…. The blonde hair gelled guy from Crye…. Off putting.

Jeebus

Whats wrong with the under barrel? Too heavy? Genuinely curious. Under barrel anything is a trade off for sure…just try humping around an m4 with a 203 on it. Not sure what was wrong with the M26 MAS that Crye felt they needed to make this, other than it not being available commercially.

CommonSense23

SOF has moved away from the whole underbarrel everything for a while now. This does nothing better than a breacher shotgun and a lot of things worse. Its like they didn’t even consult a breacher before they came up with this.

JumpIf NotZero

Agreed, this is a one-man fantasy team weapon.

Sianmink

Lot of guys I’ve heard even prefer a standalone M320 over a rifle-mounted system. Who wants to breach with a 12lb rifle?

JumpIf NotZero

12lbs!?

A full load carbine can be 11-12lbs. This thing would be adding like another 7-8lbs in the front of that.

And if you didn’t have that front weight firing the 12 gauge would have a hell of a muzzle flip. Notice in the vids no muzzle flip or very little recoil?

Jeebus

Oh, for sure. I hated having the 203 under my M4 because it threw the balance way off- once we got 320s everyone went standalone. Just curious if the Crye is heavier or better….

Secundius

@ Jeebus.

I suspect it’s the C-More M26 MASS, MSRP of ~$5,300.00 USD…

TDog

Just out of curiosity, where was the center of balance on this gun?

And I agree with Nicks87 – adding titanium does nothing for lowering the cost. I’ll save my money for Standard’s SKO shotgun.

JumpIf NotZero

Extremely rear, and I handled it unloaded, so just add more to it.

Like so heavy and so rearward, it felt just standing there like it was going to snake under my shoulder and have the barrel smack me in the face. Let alone trying to actually move with this thing or having it move under recoil.

It’s cool looking, and with the silencer it’s really cool looking. But ultimately just something for pictures.

TDog

Thanks for the response! That being the case, this gun sounds like a non-starter. Expensive and lopsided? Ugh…

Giolli Joker

Was it the standalone unit? Won’t the rear balance be beneficial in underbarrel configuration, as it will centralise the mass?
I can’t tell if it’s going to be useful or not, but isn’t the underbarrel the primary intended version of this shotgun?

Jeebus

Crye is really marketed towards SOF and high end LE so it makes sense they would go ahead and make it out of titanium. All of their gear is very expensive but well worth it if jumping out airplanes and shooting at people is your day job.

Die-Hard-Hans

Easy there buddy….

The designer was playing around with Titanium cylinders last year for specific customers of varying pocket book sizes. And that much titanium isn’t going to add that much cost to the overall price.

Not everything is designed and made for you. There are actually other customers out there.

Man, I wish these were MD legal (banned due to revolving cylinder magazine). Maybe if we ever get the state to understand that SBSs and shotguns are two separate categories in the law…

Evan

Wait, REVOLVERS are banned in Maryland? Or is it just cause it’s a shotgun? Either way, you need to move to Pennsylvania. It’s not far, and we don’t have inane and arbitrary bans on guns that look scary.

So basically you’re better off just building your own. Undetermined wait and increasingly expensive components are a no go.

Nate H

Revolving cylinder shotgun. In bullpup form. Ever see the video of what happens to a piece of paper when you get it too close to the cylinder gap of a revolver? That’s your arm. Noooooo thanks.

Dracon1201

Obviously they’re sealing that. The whole shotgun would be unusable if that were still an issue.

Nate H

Obviously. Just like the street sweeper… oh wait…

Nothing mentioned about that in THIS release, but that doesn’t mean what you say isn’t true. In all seriousness this is still silly and I don’t really see much in the way of practicality. LEO/SWAT uses a designated point man to breach and (s)he’s generally armed with a shotgun of one variation or another. I imagine it’s the same with military operators operating operationally. Sorry but this is just dumb. Another impulse buy for the rich crowd.

Actually a number of military teams have under barrel shotguns. Plus since you can change out the mag you can change from say door breacher rounds to bean bag or rubber or buckshot

wetcorps

There is a seal that goes back against the chamber when you pull the trigger, rather than the whole cylinder going forward.

Secundius

@ Nate H.

There’s a Gap Check on the Revolver Cylinder, so it Seats Flush with the Barrel…

Brocus

How’s that thing supposed to work, gas seal similar to a Nagant revolver? How heavy is the trigger pull?

wetcorps

There is a seal that goes back against the chamber when you pull the trigger, rather than the whole cylinder going forward.
Apparently the trigger linkage goes straight through the cylinder using a captive piece. Or at least that’s what I understood.

iksnilol

Why not add a pump or something to rotate the cylinder? Could give you a better trigger pull.

Did you guys bother to measure the trigger pull?

Rusty S.

Sorry, I did not have my Lyman digital pull gauge on me. It was a nice trigger pull, however. Keep in mind this may not be the final iteration.

That would complicate the design and why have a rotating cylinder if you have a pump action?

iksnilol

Simple, have a pump so you can rotate the cylinder to lighten the trigger pull. Just like cocking the hammer on a DA revolver.

Secundius

@ iksnilol.

Stand Back and Actually Look At the Shotgun Itself, and What Do You See? It’s a Double-Action “Revolver” Shotgun. Exactly the Same Action as a Double-Action Revolver Handgun, but in Shotgun Livery. A Shorter Barrel Length, because the Revolver Cylinder is in part, part of the Barrel Length…

Giolli Joker

The pump, in underbarrel use, would not make it much different than a chopped Remington 870 in Masterkey configuration… in theory this one allows one handed operation while still holding the grip of the main gun.

Edeco

Completely titanium barrel? No steel liner? On all or just the short NFA one? I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that it can be done. But I’m not sure how I’d feel about it.

JumpIf NotZero

The barrel is not at all the source of weight on this.

Secundius

@ Edeco.

I’LL NEVER HAPPEN! Titanium isn’t Flexible Enough, it’ll Shatter after the First Shot. You’ll need the Chrome-Steel Barrel Insert to make it WORK…

Edeco

Titanium not flexible enough? We’re talking metallic Ti, not titanium carbide right? My concern would be wear resistance, I mean, there’s usually a shot cup and that should protect it, but If I coughed up for one of these, fact is I’d want it to last a long time, be able to eat any factory ammo and take a bronze-brushing…

Secundius

@ Edeco.

Titanium is Magnet Neutral, Heat Neutral and anything else you can Think Of. It NOT “Elastic Enough”. Rifling of the Barrel would be Virtually Impossible. Beside, Titanium will Absorb Virtually ANY External Force. BUT, an Explosive Force in an Internal Confined Space, NO WAY…

iowaclass

I am intrigued by the ability to swap out revolving cylinders, something we haven’t seen since revolvers from the cap-and-ball days.
I have a notion that if this could be applied to a handgun design along the lines of the rhino revolver, with the barrel aligned with the lower chamber, it could narrow the gap between pistol and revolver in terms of volume of fire.

Blake

Idea borrowed from the Pancor Jackhammer…

Fadaldude

How is this not a destructive device like the Streetsweeper family of revolving cylinder shotguns? I thought the revolving action is what’s the BATFE construed as non-sporting who they declared Streetsweepers DDs.

This thing looks amazing, but how are they going to get over the ATF calling it a DD? My understanding was that they had ruled all revolving shotguns (other than .410) as DD’s. Did Crye get an exception?

Jesse Foust

Not sure, but possibly because it’s double action, not semi automatic.

Certain ones that were affordable were declared destructive devices due to a gun control group. Revolving shotguns and revolving rifles have never really been popular namely due to the chamber gap.

The Cyre uses a gas seal system like the Nagant revolver but instead of a abide gate it uses a magazine that you can remove.The DD revolving shotguns such as the streetsweeper, striker 12 and all variations were not semi automatic they were manual.

Nate H

Already retracted and redacted guy. Forgot about the Nagano revolver and the way it circumvents this same problem. Similar concept. I’m not watching the video, but thanks anyway, chief. Still stupid.

From a changeable mag that can be silenced and can be attached to a standalone unit or to a rifle or other shotgun with a rail system.

Giolli Joker

Wasn’t the Ti cylinder there since the beginning?

Secundius

@ Giolli Joker.

The Revolver Cylinder is made of Plastic with ~3-inch long Steel Inserts and Shotgun Barrel are, ZEV Match-Grade Pre-Hardened 416R Chrome Stainless Steel with an 16 RA Finish and a +/- 0.0002-inch tolerance to the steel…

Lt_Scrounge

It’s cool looking, but no thanks. Why not simply mount a gas operated semi automatic shotgun under there? The length wouldn’t be much longer if you use a bull pup firing mechanism. The weight would be less since the magazine tube and receiver could be completely made of polymer like the receivers on the Benelli Novas. The mechanism would have fewer moving parts as well. Reducing the number of moving parts and increasing the use of polymer would reduce costs and improve reliability. If you want interchangeable magazine capability, start with a Saiga type action. I think the Russians are already building something similar.

A conventional reciprocating action adds a lot of overall length. You need at least twice the length of the shotshell for the action. So you’d need at least 5.5 to 6″ dedicated to the receiver alone. When you are trying to maintain an overall length under that of the host weapon’s barrel length, the parasitic shotgun is going to lose a lot of its own barrel length as a result. Moreover, if the parasitic shotgun uses a tube magazine, the loss in overall length will also cut into the magazine capacity, knocking you down to 2 or 3 in the tube. Box magazines for shotguns have the disadvantage of excessive height due to the width of the shotshell and the length of the spring required to lift their mass.

You’ll note that Benelli doesn’t offer a semi-auto version of the Nova. A polymer receiver and tube magazine would difficult with typical gas-operated sporting shotgun designs. Most use the magazine tube as a guide for the gas piston. Do you want hot gas venting onto a polymer magazine tube? Even with an alternative gas piston design or a recoil-operated action, you’d still need anchor points for the recoil springs.

GearHead

I hope someone in Canada has the balls to try and import this as a “revolver” so we can have them too.