Thanks for the help.Just keep on sending because i'll read all your messages.

Remember Finland is a country.I've been to Italy,nice country.

Going back to lego i'll tell you when my Big castle is finished.Hey Jojo how many castle buildings do you have 'cos i've heard you've got a lot of Lego castle.I'm jealous.How big is the Black Falcon empire?

I can't reply to yor last 2 posts, legodude, but I can reply to your topic-

To tell the truth, I've never thought of any 'old' LEGO factions as evil! Not BF, not Wolfpack, or anything! I mean, they all have smiley faces! (But don't get me wrong, I liked that way better that the obvious good/bad contrasts of today's LEGO.)

legodude101 wrote:Hey Jojo how many castle buildings do you have 'cos i've heard you've got a lot of Lego castle.I'm jealous.How big is the Black Falcon empire?

Right now the Black Falcon Empire is not existant. I don't have any building for them. The only built up Castle buildings are currently that cathedral fragment (for I may avail myself of it in some project sometime in the future) and the Tower in the Lonely Woods.
Jealousy leads to the Dark Side BTW :-)

And whoever didn't travel to Italy just because of those statement of the Italian minister of tourism is a silly person. I don't travel to a country for the purpose of pleasing its minister of tourism but to please myself.

Lego never stated that Black Falcons, Black Knigts and Lions, Forestmens and Wolfpacks were good or bad. It's a wrong way to think.

In reality, nobody is bad. But, when you have an enemy, this enemy is always the bad guy for you. So it's relative. When Lego started to decide who was bad, and who was good, I started definitely my dark age. I think it's again a juniorisation of thinking.

The fact that BF and lions were not good or not bad, made me invent my own stories. And these stories were more interesting than the good and bad typical story, more complex, more realist.

In the C-C Roleplay, The Black Falcons are corrupt. As they killed off the Bulls, (apart from Barbod).
But i always thought that they were kind of like mercanaries, but they belonged to an army. What i mean is that they are like.... actually i dont know what i mean... I think they are bad guys beacause in most of the sets, you see em fighting Royal Knights of royal people, and royals, are good, i think....

the_great_one wrote:In the C-C Roleplay, The Black Falcons are corrupt. As they killed off the Bulls, (apart from Barbod).But i always thought that they were kind of like mercanaries, but they belonged to an army. What i mean is that they are like.... actually i dont know what i mean... I think they are bad guys beacause in most of the sets, you see em fighting Royal Knights of royal people, and royals, are good, i think....

Nikos

I agree. The Falcons in the game are corrupt and because of this they were victims of a bunch of horrible wars, one in which the fearsome Bull Knights were annihilated and another in which the Black knights broke off and formed their own nation. I think they are corrupt in sorts, but not evil. some of their leaders (Black Falcon King!) are evil, others are just complete cowards (Governor Clavvius).

I suppose if you are talking about Evil Black Falcons, I'm supposed to chime in. I always thought them good. I just changed it around for my own twisted reasons. I would say the BF's are supposed to be good. After all, Would they make somthing like BFF for bad guys?

Just a thought: To me, the term 'Crusader' implies that this faction is affiliated with the church, and therefore, if the Falcons are indeed enemies of the Crusaders, by default they would also be enemies of the church. For this reason, many people might perceive them as bad or evil.
I personally use the Black Falcons as the good guys, not only because they look cool, but also because I have incredibly fond memories of the Black Falcon's Fortress, which was my favorite childhood toy.

This topic has been discussed before. The great thing about early castle sets is that the child could choose for themselves which faction was good or bad. They could also choose not to make any faction bad.

This topic should not have been sidetracked by roleplay. Roleplay topics need to start their own thread. I am moving this thread to stories because it is more appropriate there.

When I was a kid, I considered the BF as bad.
Not because I didn't like them, on the contrary, they were much more difficult to gain then the Lions. They were the 'black sheep' of TLC, they were jealous of the all the things the Lions had that they didn't and so it drove them to the Dark Side (quoting Jojo).
It was all plain and simple until the forest people came. Good vs Evil so where the forest people in all of this. So in three theme they were divided Forest people - Good, Lions - Natural while the BF - Evil . TLC never gave to anyone of those a real alliance though I guess the BF looked rather dark (as you all said I didn't knew they were falcons until 4 years ago, till then they were Eagles to me too).

Well anyway a few old links on Lugnet about who is good and who is bad:

Hey, this is a very interesting debate, i mean in the beginning it seems no one was evil, but now the castle theme is devided into two factions, one of them clearly evil (The scorpion guys).

I think it depends very much on how much personality you choose to give your minifigs:

If you were a kid when the early castle-models came, like the Battle ram that´s up for reviewing this week, then it´s pretty easy, you choose one of the factions as your favorite and let them be the "good guys" and then you by all of them you can get your hands on (A little bit like selecting what teams players to collect on trading cards ) It´s really no big difference between them, except for the coat of arms they ware.

This works pretty good until the age when you start to identify YOURSELF with one of the LEGO-men, then you take this one as your hero, and if the fig happens to be a BF then they´re going to be your hero-team-good-guys.

In later years this has been made easier by TLC, like with the Fright-knights who had ghosts and skeletons, they are, in my opinion, som what childish and goes against the tradition of none-good-none-bad people in the castle-world. Maybe it´s juniorization. I mean, who were good and bad when the DM.s stood against the Black Monarchs a few years back, but then king Leo came along and turned the DM.s into the BAD guys. (Officially that is )

And now it´s finished with this group of RAINBOW HERO KNIGHTS! who are fighting the evil black-dressed scorpion guys.

What do you think of the relation good/bad factions over Lego-castle-history?

I too called (and still call) the Black Falcons "Eagles" (as well as "Lions" for the Crusaders, "Dragons" for the Black Knights, etc.), but I will try to use the terms of our community to avoid confusion . In addition to being the people of my original Signature Figure (as stated in various other posts), I thought of the Black Falcons as a sort of minority group, not as populous nor as powerful as the Crusaders or the Black Knights, similar to the Forestmen or the Wolfpack. (I can't speak for the factions introduced during my Dark Age.)

Come to think of it, in many of the faction vs. faction sets, the "good guys" and the "bad guys" are relative to personal biases concerning the factions. For instance (in my opinion):

Crusaders vs. Forestmen sets - Robin Hood's men are the good guys. In 6042, the Crusaders are ASKING for a Forestmen ambush by imprisoning a Forestman.

Crusaders vs. Black Falcons sets - In situations not involving my Original Signature Figure, the Crusaders are the good guys. Of course sets such as 6067 might show a kind of peace (if not alliance) between the two factions.

Black Falcons vs. Black Knights sets - I've always thought of the dragon as evil (due to indoctrination and propaganda and all that stuff), so the Black Falcons are the good guys. Or maybe the Knights of the Black Monarch were created to replace the Black Falcons as the major threat to the Lion Knights (who already had their hands full with Robin Hood's Merry Men).

Crusaders vs. Black Knights sets - The Crusaders are the good guys, or at least they are the home team (6060).

Now, as an AFOL, each and every side has their own motivation--their own "good"--as it is in "real life." Then again, the Dark Lord inhabits my Black Monarch's Castle...