Tuesday, January 31, 2006

This is the first of a two part post looking at my picks for the classiest and most classless fans in college football that I've personally encountered. In order to recognize the best, one must be familiar with the worst. So, today, here are the three worst fan bases I've come in contact with.

1. Ohio State - THE Rudest Fans in America

Used to be, I always wanted Ohio State to win every game each season...except one. In fact, leading up to our annual showdown with the Bucks, I never understood Michigan fans cheering with glee whenever I was sitting in the stands at the Big House and the stadium announcer came over the PA system to reveal Ohio State was losing or had been upset . Made no sense to me. Because I didn't want to beat a three or four loss Tosu squad at the end of the season, I wanted to dash the hopes of an undefeated team playing for something truly meaningful.

And let me also say, like a guy defending himself against charges of being a racist, "Some of my best friends are Buckeyes." One was my roommate for a couple years out of college, one was in my wedding party and another is work colleague. All very good friends to this day.

Yet, having said all that, I now hope Ohio State loses every game. Even though it looks bad for the Big 10, I openly root against them in their bowl games. And it's all for one reason: their fans.

Over the years, I've grown to really dislike Buckeye fans. And it all stems from one too many bouts of abuse attending games in Columbus.

Sweeping generalization? Sure. But once you get attacked and barked at by the neighborhood dog enough, you begin to loathe the creature each time you pass. Hey, there's a reason the Ohio State mascot is a nut: because their fans are crazy. And not in a good way. More in that, "Shit, we had to bail Stank out of jail again after he got into another bar fight last night" way.

Funny thing is, I used to respect Ohio State fans. They love their team and they are LOUD. But, in my 5 trips to the 'Shoe, they are also the most abusive fans I've ever come in contact with at a sporting event. The things that I've personally experienced in Columbus which have brought me to my current feelings are as follows:

* My uncle was once hit in the back by a thrown full beer bottle before The Game. Now, maybe whoever threw it was aiming for a trash can somewhere, but I think it might have had something to do with the maize and blue color of his jacket.

* A few years before it burned down in '96, I was at Papa Joe's, an Ohio State watering hole the night before the big game when a waitress ran over to me and advised me to turn my Michigan shirt inside out. I thought she was joking. She wasn't. Said it wasn't safe. When I actually asked if she was joking, she shook her head and said it would be the "same if a Buckeye fan was wearing an Ohio State shirt in Ann Arbor." Not that she believed me (or any Ohio State fans reading this will) but I told her, actually, it was very different.

* Before the 2002 game, when a win would send Tosu to the BCS title game in Tempe, it seemed every fan in Columbus was carrying a bag of Tostitos (or making a fashion statement by wearing an empty one on their heads). Well, before kickoff, I was standing on Lane Avenue near the Varsity Club when a group (plural) of rather large Buckeye fans spotted the Michigan shirt under my jacket (for safety purposes, I had given up wearing a Michigan jacket when my uncle got pelted with the beer bottle). One of them ran up to me and threw a handful of Tostitos in my face. I felt my fist clench but, being surrounded by, oh, about 10,000 Buckeyes, I realized whatever swing I got in would be my last. And hey, the Buckeye guy was really cool. He just laughed, went to wipe the Tostitos off and said, "Hey, man, I'm just fucking with you." Gee, thanks, dick.

* I have been flipped off and told to fuck a) myself b) Michigan c) numerous other things more times than I can possibly count while walking near the 'Shoe on gameday. And while I expect it from the drunk frat guy crowd, I'm always surprised when it's a co-ed or the elderly (along those lines, another 2004 incident too "good" not to share is, after we lost, Benny, Wangs and I were rushing out of the 'Shoe with seconds left in order to beat the crowd. Passing an elderly couple (70+), the woman, seeing our M gear, shouted, "Go back to Michigan you big losers!" Couldn't believe it.)

As I tell people all the time, the thing that always surprises me the most is that I hear "Fuck Michigan!" more than "Go Bucks!" before The Game in Columbus.

Again, those are my personal firsthand experiences in Columbus over the years. And I'm not alone. My friend who was in the Michigan Marching Band told me about dodging debris and loogies as they took the field. We all know about the Michigan team bus being subjected to drug/bomb sniffing dogs in '04. And, lest one think it's strictly M fans that get such special treatment in Columbus due to our long-festering rivalry, Texas fans were treated so poorly that the THE OSU President wrote an apology to one Texas fan.

The ironic thing is, get Buckeyes away from the 'Shoe and they seem like nice folks. But put them within a few square miles of the stadium on a football Saturday and mob rule takes over. I'm sure theories abound, but I honestly wonder why that is. And as stories continue to mount (like the Texas mention above), the university sincerely needs to address this problem before somebody gets seriously hurt. Whether they want to admit it or not, there is a problem in Columbus on gamedays.

Funniest Columbus Memory: In town for what turned out to be John Cooper's final M/OSU game, one of the local radio stations was only playing songs from years in which Ohio State beat Michigan. But, since Coop had only won The Game twice in 13 years, it was like listening to an oldies station. I don't know who came up with that idea and thought it was a good one, but as a Michigan fan, it was hilarious. And I've never heard so many Beatles tunes on a Top 40 station before in my life!

Ok, after that pick for #1, I must tell you that my other two picks pale in comparison. They aren't even "bad" so much as annoying. Put it this way, if this were a scale, with what I've encountered at THE Rudest Stadium in America being a perfect 10 for classlessness, my next two picks are simply in the 3 range.

2. Michigan State - That Annoying Little Brother in the Backseat During a Looong Car Ride

Again, it's almost unfair to put them here in light of how bad things are in Columbus. "Abuse" in East Lansing is mostly of the good-natured variety. I've never felt afraid for my safety (or that of my vehicle) in EL. However, while it hasn't affected me personally, they really do just love to set their furniture on fire regularly. And the "Fuck Michigan!" so popular in Columbus is more of the "Michigan sucks!" sort of cheer on the banks of the Red Ceder.

Then again, maybe I'm just including them because they never admit that Desmond Howard was indeed tripped on that 2-point conversation play in '90 and without Clockgate, time would have expired in '01.

3. Illinois - But Only During the Mike White Years of the '80s

For a brief, fleeting moment, Illinois reached for the upper echelon of college football in the '80s. As such, like the ugly chick who becomes suddenly hot in some college football fairy tale, their fans took out their years of frustration on Michigan fans during those few heated contests in the 80s...before the team returned to its usually mediocrity.

Admittedly, I only went once and, since I was just a kid, my memory of specifics is about as hazy as writer James Frey's on the Oprah Winfrey Show, but I just remember their fans being off the deep end the year I went and nobody wanting to travel down there again.

111 comments:

M82
said...

Well written observations.

I was in the MMB (Michigan Marching Band) and made two trips to OSU. During one, Michigan had the lead in the 4th quarter and we were advised to "get out of there while we could". Often, opposing bands play a "your turn/our turn" post game show. Not at OSU. As we were hustled out of the stadium, I saw something streak down in front of my eyes and crater the track in front of me...

...a piece of stadium concrete. Just one of many going away gifts showered on us by OSU fans.

Rivalry is one thing, but no one should literally have to fear for their life when they attend a football game.

Yost, good post on tOSU. be prepared to receive an avalanche of comments stating that it's just a "few" bad apples and that the same thing happens everywhere (especially in A2).

as for their fans behavior, the buckeye nation always professes personal innocence and refers to the bad behavior of a "few" out of control fans. and tOSU fans are right- the violence/overly aggressive behavior is actually committed by just a "few". the real problem is that none of the other fans ever do anything to try to stop the "few".

the vast majority of people in columbus wouldn't actually hit or shove someone else or throw a beer can, but at the same time they wouldn't step out of the crowd to try to stop someone else from doing it either. when you were coated w/ tostitos, there were probably 5000 fans w/ in 100 yds of you. and probably 4990 would never have done that themselves. but none of them would step up and try to stop it, either.

i've been to every michigan game in columbus for the last 15 years and seen some sort of unreasonable behavior at each one. never have i seen anyone in the crowd try to do or say anything about it. those who don't laugh, just turn away and try to ignore it (denial is a big part of tOSU psyche these days). by not making any attempt to even say anything (you'd be amazed how effective a "hey, stop that" can be in a crowd) they condone this behavior w/ silence and are as to blame for the culture as the "few".

to their credit, tosu is actually recognizing the problem. they've cracked down on the alcohol available near the stadium and redone the fences, walkways near the stadium and along Lane Ave to ease crowd control issues. they also have an extensive article in their winter alum mag entitled "Fan or Fanatic? Some Buckeye Fans Are Always on Their Best Behavior. Some Aren't. Why Not?", where they discuss the fan behavior problems extensively and ways to address it.

as for other fans' bad behavior, you can't bring up the subject w/ out some tosu fan telling you the story of how their aunt's husband's nephew went to the game in 19__ and had something horrible done to them by some michigan fan. most of the folks w/ these stories have either never been to A2 for a game and are relying on the stories of others, or the story comes from the same "few" that get into confrontations in columbus and whose behavior forces a confrontation where ever they go. tosu fans generally ignore the fact that while they feel mistreated pretty much where ever they go, everyone feels mistreated when they go to columbus.

i would make a little proposition to all tosu fans that are going to contest your post and tell you that you are wrong- wear a michigan jersey to the game in columbus this year. go tail gate an hour or so before hand, go to the game, and try to get back to your car after wards. do that, and then log in and tell us all your reasons why your fans are really misjudged and the stories are blown out of proportion.

Great post! It sure seems like every single Michigan fan who has gone to Columbus has a terrifying tale to tell. Does Michigan offer some sort of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder counseling for students who attend those games?

Perhaps--for brevity's sake--we should solicit stories from Michigan fans who went to Columbus, saw the game, and returned home without incident?

Of course, the best part of this post is going to be when the Ohio State fans--with the notable exception of the eminently decent and articulate CapBuck--start pouring on the obscenity laced, horribly misspelled comments. That's when the real fun begins.

I just remembered that I do indeed have an obnoxious Ohio State fan story.

At the Alamo Bowl, there were actually two fairly obnoxious fans in attendance. They were—you guessed it—Ohio State fans. Now, why Ohio State fans would want to go to a lower-tiered bowl game with Michigan and Nebraska playing is beyond me. I certainly wouldn’t have gone to the previous Alamo Bowl featuring Ohio State and Oklahoma State decked out in maize and blue.

Anyway, it was during halftime and I managed to find the lone smoking area of the Alamodome. It’s a roped off area just outside one of the entrances of the stadium. Everyone was squeezed into this area, carefully trying to smoke without burning the person next to them. It was Michigan and Nebraska fans together, united by our addiction to nicotine.

There were a couple of Texas fans there sporting burnt orange and occasionally shouting “Texas is number one!” or “Hook ‘em Horns” which is understandable since we’re in Texas. Plus, I’m sure they had nothing better to do that night and figured why the hell not head over to the Alamodome to watch the team that had been the launching pad for Texas’s national championship season—as well as Vince Young’s ascent to the ridiculous—the previous year.

Then I saw them, a couple decked out in their scarlet jackets, the man proudly wearing his Ohio State cap. Just as I was trying to figure out why the hell they would want to attend this game—a game many Michigan fans didn’t even want to go to—the man yelled:

“Jim Tressel fucking rules!”

“Tressel fucking owns Lloyd Carr!”

“Go Bucks!”

That was the only profanity—except for that streaming through my mind while watching the game—I heard the entire evening. I’m guessing the mantra of “Fuck Michigan!” was deemed unwise because there were only two of them. Certainly not the most outrageous fan behavior—especially by Buckeye standards—but, again they were very much alone there.

Your point about Tosu fans countering with "a friend of a friend" stories regarding Bucks in A2 is exactly why I made clear that each thing in my post is something that I PERSONALLY experienced and/or saw.

And your idea about Buck fans wearing M gear to the 'Shoe this fall to see if what we say is true is a good idea. I say that to my Tosu friends all the time. Of course, for that to be a truly untainted experiment, most of those random fans must also cover up their "Fuck Michigan" tatoos so as not to give away their true school affiliation.

BPD,it's surprising that both schools are only 150 miles apart but are almost alienly different their sports cultures in some respects. that they would take the trouble to go to a game to cheer against michigan is just one example of the singular focus of their fans on us, compared to our somewhat universal disdain for pretty much everyone (didn't say we were better, just different).

before i lived in Columbus, my primary dislikes were MSU fans and Domers. in michigan (the state of) that who's you run into the most- they're all over the place (like black flies in the early spring...). it's not that i liked tosu fans, it's just that i didn't have enough hours in the day to be so focused on just them.

as a group, tOSU fans are pretty obsessed w/ michigan, and just michigan. there's no one else in ohio and before psu joined, no one else close by whose program was on par w/ theirs or whom they played regularly.

they spend a lot of energy focused on just us (i.e.; "what have you done today to beat michigan"? sound a little over absorbed to you?). they have a ticker on the Dispatch web page counting days since michigan last won over tosu. they have all kinds of activities focused around the michigan game and give out the gold pants when they win. we don't have anything commensurate for the game.

to really see the differences, just compare the number of "fuck michigan" sites or different articles of clothing you can buy that says something anti michigan, w/ the similar items in maize & blue that say something about tOSU. it's like a 20-1 ratio, and the anti michigan stuff is hard to find at any of the mainstream stores. in columbus, it IS mainstream.

and if you really want to irritate tosu fans, nothing sets them off so much as to suggest that anyone else could possibly have a rivalry w/ us. if they played ND every year, i doubt that too many michigan fans would be too upset if they started looking at that rivalry as being on a par w/ us. but to suggest to them that ND or MSU could be as big to us sets them right on their ear.

one last note- i've heard the "tre$$el owns carr" mantra for some time. you know what i say that's turned out to be very effective? i tell them: "get a number! everyone owns Lloyd these days. ty willingham owned carr and ND fired him. every coach we play in a bowl or in our first road game owns him too!".

i know that sounds counter intuitive (and it is depressing), but it honestly seems to bother them that THEIR 4-1 record isn't somehow "special". when you point out how weak Carr's record has been to pretty much everyone over the last 5 years, most tosu fans seem actually let down. maybe it's a hang over from coop's record, but the notion that their recent win streak is just a symptom of the overall decline in the program and not something special to tre$$el's "brilliance" as a coach or their "dominance" as program, takes a lot of the fun out of it.

OK. I have been through this site a couple times and I like it (after all, I am a Michigan fan and an alum), but I have never had the urge to comment on anything, until now. I grew up cheering for tO$U because my family are big fans. My mother and father grew up in Cleveland and I have plenty (over 10) relatives that went to tO$U. Their influence on me was strong. My father was an auto worker with GM, so I grew up in Michigan. I naturally gained an affection for the maize and blue and always regarded The Game as my favorite game. Still, I had no ill will towards the scarlet and grey (which my afther painted his garage in those colors) until I went to my first game in Columbus as a Michigan fan. One of the worst sporting experiences of my life. I can handle my fair share of verbal assualts, but the unrelenting physical abuse I received was horrendous. The most striking example, as I was wearing a Michigan jersey in the stands, I got hit in the head with a 9-volt battery. Yea, it hurt and drew blood. What's more, the scarlet and grey crowd around me thought it was amusing.A have numerous episodes of bad treatment, but I won't go into them. As I do have lots of family in Ohio (including my only grandmother) and I have been there many times. Here is my GENERAL take on the tO$U fan nation:

-I agree with the blogger above, it is only a "few" bad apples. We have them too, but the size of tO$Us "few" is much larger than any other "few". Those who are part of the tO$U "many" either silently condone the actions of the "few" or are too big of pussies to do anything about it to stop it. IMO, these "few" are generally of the backwoods Ohio hillbilly type with little education or civil responsibility.

-This is not just a Colombus thing. I have been phyiscally had it happen to me in Tower City in Cleveland over Christmas or at the Football Hall of Fame.

-Their deep ire towards all things up north really reminds me why I hate the Yankees. I hate the Yankees because they are the best organization in sports and it is not my the organization I choose to follow. As a Cubs and Tigers fan, I hate the fact that the Yankees get all the talent and make it to the playoffs every year, etc. I think tO$U hates Michigan in the same way. Michigan holds more tradition and notoriety, and holds more in just about every major stat over tO$U. IMO, Michigan is tO$U wants to be. Remember, this is just my opinion.

-Many of the fans use what I call "buckeye math". If it hasn't happen in the Jim Tressel era (the past five years) it doesn't count or never existed.

I think college football is awesome. The fans, the tradition, the history all part of the game just as much as the great teams we field each year. I love going to away games and taking in the visiting town and fans. I especially love talking with fans at a bar after the game about plays, players, refs, and the future of the each respective program. A final good bye, "see ya next year", and whether win or lose, I always am satisfied. Not in Columbus. Columbus has turned to Mos Eisley in Star Wars. As Obi Wan put it, "I have never seen a more retched hide of scum and villainy". This is not just my opinion. See the rest of the big ten and Texas as examples. Something needs to be done in Columbus and the bitching of the visiting fanbase will get you nowhere. The tO$U fan nation needs to get off their asses and do something about it, because a great institution like Ohio State should not have that sort of aura.

And that's all I have to say about that. Sorry for the long post, I couldn't help myself.

Definitely I couldn't agree more. I've been to the game the past 7 years in a row so 3 in Columbus and although I haven't been subjected to have anyone assault me, I have seen some of it happen. I went to the game all 4 years in college and 3 years since I graduated, a tougher task now that I'm back home in California and although I have my streak in tact I highly doubt I will be going this upcoming season, it's just not worth all the trouble to go there.

As a funny side note last year during the summer I was in Vegas wearing my throwback Rumeal Robinson jersey and as I'm on the phone walking into the Mirage an old grandma that had to be 60+ looks at me and yells "Fuck Michigan!" and just walks away, it was just surprising that even there I could find some crazy Bucknuts talking shit on Michigan.

1. I can't believe that anyone would actually own one of these...let alone believing that there is an entire Rumeal Robinson jersey market...2. For wearing a RR jersey, you should have been stoned to death...3. I'll have to look for a Treg Lee throwback jersey in the mall or maybe Tom Brandewie...

Just to let you guys know how it works both ways... I just moved to Grand Rapids and am constantly bombarded by offensive statements and gestures from Michigan fans. State fans are always polite, kind of like they are about to invite you to dinner. Michigan fans are always rude and in your face. I walked into BW3 and was told to get the fuck out of the restaurant before I could even

I'm a Buckeye fan and love your site. Its one of the best and most entertaining college football blogs on the web.

I agree that OSU fans have become more and more classless year after year and the reason is simple: Columbus has grown into a really big city, yet OSU football is still really the ONLY thing to do in this cow town. A game at Ohio Stadium pulls all sorts toward the game and many come in from the surrounding rural areas who spend about one day a year in a city the size of Columbus. And they go nuts. At any rate, OSU fans do behave like assholes as your column rightly describes. Its funny because I see two sets of assholes at games—the young kids and blue collar types that are drunk as shit and ready to fight and the white collar, fat asses who yell at anyone who stands up or doesn’t sing the national anthem at the top of their lungs. Its like street gang and fascist day every game at the Horseshoe.

At any rate, I went to the Texas game last year and was horrified at what I saw. The behavior was much, much worse than any of the many Michigan games I had ever attended. I’m heading to Austin (where I went to graduate school) next year and fully expect to hear about how bad OSU fans were in 2005. Hopefully, I won’t experience too much pay back, but I wouldn’t blame Horns fans.

As for the treatment of Michigan fans, I’m sorry that it has got so out of control and that you have had many ugly incidents to make you want to stay away.

But, and I imagine this will piss many of your readers off, I would not be honest if I didn’t add that I’m glad that Michigan fans find our stadium more unwelcoming than OSU fans find Michigan stadium. Home field advantage is a big deal in College Football. I want the Buckeyes to have a lot of it. So if Michigan fans feel like they can’t step foot in our stadium—so be it. Maybe Michigan fans should think about making their home field a little less hospital to visiting fans and losses like last year to ND, Minnesota and OSU can be avoided.

w/ apologies to thomas more- "to sell your soul for all the world, but for 10-2?".

yeah, if we spit on people or threw rocks and punched old men and women, we might win a few more games. we'd rather lose 'em than become that person.

yeah, if we had less discipline off the field or cut corners on compliance or grades, we might have a few more wins. rather have 18 losses in 5 years than 18+ arrests.

if there is a single difference between the two it's what tosu fans will allow/condone/deny/pretend didn't happen to gain a few more wins, and what the michigan administration won't even consider.smith, tosu's ad, said it himself this spring that he'd rather have off the field problems than be 0-11. you'll never hear anyone in A2 say that.

tosu beat us last year and finished 10-2. congrats. but don't kid yourself for even a moment that there is a single michigan fan that would trade places w/ you. we want carr to right the ship or step aside for someone who will, but we never want a program like yours.

I would say the 1-4 thing is warranted...and it isnt "buckeye math"...it is recent history...and the circumstances have changed. If cooper was the coach with the recent 4-1 record over UM it would viewed a little different down here...6-11-1 still doesnt sound very good, but a new coach and consistent performance over the last 4-5 years has been very prmising for buckeye fans. Off the field stuff has not been present...but that seems to be subsiding as well...

As for the article...quit your crying...if you looking for real mistreatment wear a browns jersey to heinz field or a giants jersey to hilly...then you know the real definition of classless fans....

For the Buckeye that does not realize it but Rumeal Robinson did win a National Championship and his the GW FT's doing it, I don't know about you but I'd say that warrants throwback jersey, not like Nike made any for your great Buckeyes.

To 'surrounded' all I can say is that I do not suggest throwing rocks or beating up old ladies to make Ann Arbor more of a fortress. Perhaps Michigan fans could start by just getting out of their seats and yelling a bit louder. It never ceases to amaze me how quiet that big old hole in the ground can be.

And I still say, if the shoe was on the other foot, Michigan fans would be laughing themselves silly reading OSU rants about behavior in the stands while the Wolverines cleaned the Buckeyes up on the field. That’s a fact. Also, this dirty program nonsense is just as hypocritical—Michigan has had more than its share of off the field incidents too, not as many as Ohio State, but come on. It’s just more whining.

Your real problem (besides bad luck and injuries that plague all teams from time to time) has been the coaching staff & Carr, who seems to have lost control of his emotions over the past several years. If I were a player and saw my coach going ape shit like Carr does when anything goes bad, I’d play tight, trying not to screw up too.

To Anonymous Buckeye fan who said "quit your crying," I've been to Bears-Packers games. There's no more bitter rivalry in the NFL. But the crowd in Columbus for a Michigan game makes the crowd at Soldier Field seem like 65,000 cuddly puppies.

Anon,i can't help but think of slick eddy edward's line: "The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a deadgirl or a live boy."

things off the field may have "subsided" as nothing new has made the paper in columb for 6 months. maybe it's over, but T.Smith averages an arrest/NCAA investigation about every 8-10 months, so perhaps he's due.

over or not, hypothetically, what would it take for tosu fans to be embarrassed/turn on Tre$$el for the off the field arrests/scandals?

is there anything short of a dead girl/live boy that would lead to tosu fans wanting a change? or does tre$$el simply have a job, ala jimmy johnson or barry switzer, as long as he stacks up the "w's", no matter what else happens?

btw- no argument on the steelers' fans.

and lastly, Yost,nothing so refreshing as a good pissing match on football in the middle of winter, is there? thanks again for this post.

To Anonymous Buckeye fan who said "quit your crying," I've been to Bears-Packers games. There's no more bitter rivalry in the NFL. But the crowd in Columbus for a Michigan game makes the crowd at Soldier Field seem like 65,000 cuddly puppies.

I guess the bears-packers rivalry isn't what it used to be?

As far as the Rumeal Robinson stuff...that is all that he did was make a couple of free throws...that guy was a terrible ball player...bottom line...Jim Jackson and Steve Smith did more their freshman years than Rumeal did his entire career...Rumeal didnt win UM that Championship...Glenn Rice did...take off the blinders buddy. If you were wearing a Glenn Rice throwback it would be a little different story....

To anon who said, " would say the 1-4 thing is warranted...and it isnt "buckeye math"...it is recent history...". I agree that it is recent history, but it is what years buckeye fans like to think of as recent history is what "buckeye math" is all about. I, as a Michigan fan, could say that "recent history is Carr's tenure or the past fifteen years, which means we would have a winning record. I can even go so far as to say the past 100 years is "recent" since mankind has been around for thousands of years. It is just that the buckeye mathmaticians like to use the Tressel era record as the tagline for the anti-michigan campaign and that it means that tO$U is a better program historically. Without those tressel years, you would have no campaign.

The anon who said "Your real problem (besides bad luck and injuries that plague all teams from time to time) has been the coaching staff & Carr". I agree that this is a problem for Michigan, but it has nothing to do with the behavior of buckeye fans. If this post had to do with our coaches performance then your statement would make sense, but since we are talking about the worst fans in college sports (the buckeyes, just to be clear), then your statement is misplaced.

The problem here is the horrible behvior represented by buckeye fans everywhere, which is a testament to lack of ethical highground by the fans the lack of control by the administration. If I was a buckeye fan (remember, I was at one point) then I would be embarrassed and would feel compelled to do something about it.

'Surrounded' asked: "over or not, hypothetically, what would it take for tosu fans to be embarrassed/turn on Tre$$el for the off the field arrests/scandals?”

A good question. I do think there has been an up-tick of incidents under Tressel, which is more than slightly amusing considering the company line on Cooper’s dismissal was that the former Buckeye head man had lost control of the program. You are right to point out that Ohio State puts great, great emphasis on wins and losses. Because it leads to lots of extra cash for the University of course. Amazing the way money can screw up anything. With JT winning a national championship, beating Michigan on a regular basis and taking four of five bowl games too, I’d say his leash might be a pretty darn long one.

What would it take? NCAA team sanctions would do the trick. But wait a minute, the NCAA has investigated and, drum roll please, THERE HAVE BEEN NO NCAA TEAM SANCTIONS. Yes, a few guys have screwed up (a surprising number that we were stupid enough to recruit from Detroit), but these goof balls were either kicked off the team, did their game suspensions or in the case of the psychopath a-hole that is MO-C, they end up in jail. Personally, I think the whole Clarrett thing is the reason behind increased perception of shenanigans at OSU. The media has been all over the Buckeyes because of it, the actions of one kid whose head is so far up his ass he is a bona-fide circus freak show.

Finally, I wanted to add that there are a lot anonymous posts and besides this one, only two have been mine—the one on going to the Texas game and Carr going ape shit too much. Wouldn’t want to be confused with any run-of-the-mill Buckeye Anons who are surely going to embarrass themselves on this board in ways never before seen, read or heard.

Anyway, thanks for asking the question above and I anxiously await your next reply, proceeded I hope by more quotes or lines that reveal the cultural superiority of the average Michigan fan over his Buckeye counterpart.

To 12:47 Anonymous, this post about Buckeye fans has nothing to do with their recent success against Michigan. It has everything to do with the Tosu fans' reaction to winning and losing. My personal experience has found the Buckeye "fans" actually worse when they win. And Yost has been to plenty of games in Columbus where Michigan has won and during times when the Wolverines dominated the series.

You nailed it on the Ohio State obsession with all things Michigan. I’m in the Army, so I work with lots of different people from lots of different states. Whenever I find out what state someone is from—to include Ohio—I merely think, ‘oh, that’s the state they’re from.’

But, every single time I tell someone from Ohio that I’m from Michigan—and it can be in July when no one but coaching staffs are thinking of college football—I get this look of disgust and some sort of comment like I’m one of Bo Schembechler’s illegitimate children and I just crapped on Woody Hayes’s headstone.

For all they know, I could hate football, love hockey, and have attended Lake Superior State which should render me irrelevant in the Buckeye world. The knee-jerk reaction is that I’m automatically a Michigan fan and automatically the enemy.

Wow, I leave the office for a few and come back to quite a debate. Good little off-season post indeed.

Two thing:

First to Anon who said he's glad their fans make the stadium inhospitable to opposition: I totally agree, as long as it's in a sane, on the field way. Make as much noise as you can. Keep our team from calling plays. That is, to me, GREAT fandom.

However, when you add, "I don't want Michigan fans" to want to come to Columbus or whatever it was, that is crossing a line. While I dream for the day the Big Quiet House is as loud as the 'Shoe, I don't EVER want Buckeye fans to feel threatened. It's just a game. A great game, but still just a game.

Finally, do all the Bucks who keep posting 4-1, scoreboard, etc. here, as Benny pointed out, my initial post has NOTHING to do with winning or losing. I felt this same way about fans in Columbus during the years when we were dominated under your Cooper regime. This is about how fans treat the fans of other teams in their town which has nothing to do w/ winning or losing.

sarcasm? did you actually attend tosu or are you one of those tOSU fans who actually went to school somewhere else (Otterbein? Kenyon?) and just follow tOSU because of geography?

so your answer is basically, since you haven't been sanctioned for the multiple investigations, it's all just fine? sort of like OJ's "okay" since he was acquitted? and the arrests (20 or so, according to the Dispatch) are just a problem w/ media focus? the sheer number doesn't mean anything as long as the convicted felons are thrown off the team (unless it's troy, in which case you might wait until the appeal has run or bail's revoked, huh?).

no one hammers carr and his coaching these days more than michigan fans. and we are bitter, pissy, and whiney about losing so many games- not just to you, but ND, bowl games, etc.

no one's happy and we're going to whine about it. hey, it's our blog, isn't it? we'll whine if we want to (thought about doing a spoof on leslie gore's "i'll cry if i want to", but that wouldn't be too culturally superior, so what's the point?).

we've been whiney and pissy before. we were that way when mike white was cheating and winning. nebraska fans were that way when switzer was cheating and winning. everyone in FLA was when jimmy johnson was cheating and winning.

so, now you are cheating and winning and we're whiney about it. we quit being whiney after mike white had events catch up to him. nebraska fans quit being whiney after switzer had events catch up to him. we'll quit being whiney after tre$$el has his catch up to him.

and then you can tell us all what a big conspiracy it is between ESPN and the NY Times.

Describe it how you want, but this piece doesn't get written without the recent success Ohio State has had over Michigan. Sour grapes...can't talk about the success of Michigan lately (because there has been little), so let's slam the Buckeye fans. And "Ohio State fans" are put in this group because of less than 5% of their fan base.

'surrounded' – Great call on the fact that I did not attend Ohio State. And yes, I grew up there, going to games with my dad from age 5 on until I thankfully escaped to the West Coast and away from the daily morass that is Columbus. Now I attend Buckeye games on my own dime and get in and out of there as fast as possible.

But you might like this even better. I was accepted to both Michigan and Notre Dame, but because I was seventeen and didn’t know enough about my world to escape it, I chose ND after some weekend beers and a bit of rah rah at their annual Spring football game. Years later, after many visits to Ann Arbor (including some football games), I realized I would have preferred attending Michigan (no arguments from me that Michigan is a great school) with the very important and critical exception that I met my wife at Notre Dame. Otherwise ND was...well, ND.

Anyway, there you go—I’m an OSU fan, a ND graduate and occasional Irish fan (although that school is more screwed up than Ohio State in totally different ways), and a Texas graduate school guy who cheers for Horns when they don’t play the other two. My three schools’ track record over the Maize and Blue has been just pretty freaking good of late, so I am, forgive me, just a bit sarcastic at that moment.

P.S. Of course, you are entitled to whine on your board. What else are you going to do? You are a Michigan fan and your head coach is Lloyd Carr.

Listen, I really have no sympathy on you when you complain you are verbally harassed. I have been to road Big Ten games before and all I encounter at every stadium is harassment. So deal. They are words. You may not like them, but they aren't killing anyone.

However, I do have sympathy with you are physically harassed. That is classless and uncalled for under any circumstances. I, too, have been victimized in this fashion. Those idiots should be kicked out of the stadium, arrested, and banned from games. This isn't soccer hooliganism.

We both agree 100% that physical assault/abuse to person or property is out of line and should be stopped in its tracks. That's, like you said, soccer hooliganism.

As for verbal assualts, I don't mind smack talk. Verbal sparring is part of it and I love that aspect, even on the receiving end. But when people get in your face just to flip you off and should "FUCK MICHIGAN" at the top of their lungs, I believe that crosses a line.

Its not just Michigan, nor is it just Big Games. A season ago when THE University of Cincinnati played at the shoe my buddy (who goes to osu) had an extra ticket and offered it too me since I go to UC. I was excited to go since I'd never experianced a true college football game (UC home games aren't all that exciting). I put on my favorite Cincinnati shirt and headed towards the stadium. As a UM fan my whole life I know the stories, but figured it was mainly reserved for the Big Game, and for UM fans, but not everyone at every game. I expected the natural ribbing from people nearby that you get anywhere when you are rooting for the visiting team but what I got was crazy. The two guys sitting next to me threatend me with bodily harm the entire game. When UC had a good play and I clapped I would get invitations to fuck myself, or meet them outside so we could settle it. The guy next to me actually took his shirt off when I told him I wasnt scared of his threats just so he could show off his muscles and "see what was coming my way." I actaully feared for my safety pretty much the entire game. I have lost all respect for OSU and like some others I will root against them every game no matter what.

Can't agree with you more. I live in Cincinnati and have gone to the last (3) OSU-UM games in Columbus and they are an absolute joke.

Two quick stories (have plenty though..)1. Waiting to meet my Honda customers (I sell robots) outside Varsity Club with my old man. Drunk kid comes up and grabs hat with all my bowl pins on it. I'm kind of a big guy so it surprises me at first. I grab his ass and tell him "let's get after it". His friend with him says "this guys isn't messing around" He immediately gives me my hat back

2.During the last game a drunk ass girl keeps knocking my National Championship seat cushion I got at the game onto the ground when I stand up. I had enough verbal abuse at the game so i turn to her boyfriend point in his face and say if she does it again we're meeting after the game. I was with a customer (OSU fan) but he cold tell enough was enough.

Moral of the story, you can verbally say anything you want as far as I'm concerned (I don't agree with it)but when you get physical it's time to come back at them.

p.s. even last weekend at local bar almost got into fight with OSU guys as one was popping off at at my hat ("f michigan). Had a mouthy Cane buddy who said lets take it outside. They came over and started apologizing..These guys are ass clowns everywhere. I'm too old for this shit(36)

FYI, my opinion for the best fans are the Texas fans. Last years Rose Bowl was a treat as they would buy drinks talk strategy and overall wish you luck. Never seen anything like it....

Quick question for the board. I'm a Notre Dame fan and the only time I've ever been to the Shoe was in June, so I've never been in Columbus on gameday. I did however go to the Fiesta Bowl this year and encountered a number of OSU fans in Tempe. For the most part the fans I interacted with were relatively good-natured. Are the "bad apples" locals who don't go to OSU or are they the drunken frat types? It sounds like the mob mentality is more prevalent in Columbus than elsewhere, but I was just curious who's the real problem. Thanks for any insight.

First, BPD calls me out as 'eminently decent and articulate.' Being an Ohio State fan, I'm not too sure what those words mean, but I do believe that was a compliment. Then, wonder of wonders, I actually make the front page in an editorial note by Yost. Now, I don't know what the hell you guys are doing with your Michigan blog, but giving any specific Buckeye fan good publicity on the front page seems, lol...Anyway, thanks for the comments guys.

Regarding the insanity of Buckeye fans: First, thanks for the acknowledgement that a.) it is usually a minority of fans and b.) it is only surrounding certain situations, like game time. The comment regarding 'incidents' increasing proportionally based on one's proximity to the stadium is probably quite accurate. I also appreciate that this is not a 'screw every Buckeye just because I don't like them' deal; there have been some quite valid comments regarding the OSU-UM-ND-MSU balance and the basic fact that Buckeye football crowds are often not representative of OSU in general. These, I think, are really cultural ingredients that contribute to a bad pot of soup.

I have to say that I am not pleased with the way that these raucous few Buckeyes conduct themselves at games. Its really quite sad. I think the worst element though, is those fans who allow that to happen. I'm not usually around the stadium on game days-I have no official ties to the school and as a seminary student, I don't have the cash to scalp tickets. When I do get down there, though, I am sometimes taken aback by the minority of fans who get absurd. I do make it a point to say something to idiots-unless I fear for my own physical safety in doing so. More than once I have been threatened by 'taking the side' of the opposing team's fans. My vocational calling though-in the Church-demands that I advocate for the minority. Perhaps that is the difference. Or maybe my old man just raised me right.

Regarding the recent history of the OSU-UM series: I think both teams' fans are guilty of this one-sided evaluation of things. Personally, I was quite sick of hearing that Cooper was 2-10-1 against Michigan. That streak was far from accurate in describing the series history of UM-OSU (which is really 58-37-6) or even recent history (24-24-2 from 1955-2004). So unless you're going to insist that we always use numbers like 58-37-6, then Buckeyes are just going to have to deal with the reality of 2-10-1 and Wolverines are just going to have to deal with 1-4.

Regarding Tressel and the public perception of the program: personally, this is the one that I don't get. Somewhere above there was a claim that there had been an 'uptick' of incidents since Tressel got here. I haven't seen any raw data on this, but I'm inclined to disagree. Cooper's program was a nightmare when it came to these kinds of things. I can't tell you how many OSU recruits didn't even qualify academically during the Cooper era. The arrests and other violations were equally disturbing. Really I think the bigger crime is that it took some losses in C-town to make people get overly upset about the 'ethical quality' of Coop's teams.

Now, I could be just as guilty as the next Buckeye in 'ignoring' what is going on in the program for the sake of winning, I will acknowledge that. But I'm pretty sure Tressel has brought in a more ethical emphasis that his predecessor. First, I think there have been fewer 'incidences.' The perception though, is skewed by the degree of those instances. First, Clarett was such a bombshell that the whole world tuned in. The kicker though is that the NCAA investigated the whole football program twice over Clarett's issues and both times the program came up clean. Then the NCAA investigated the program again in conjunction wtih the basketball investigation and again the football side of the house came up clean. The second major issue was Troy Smith. Now this is admittedly a major issue, as the guy actually admitted to taking money as an amateur. You don't see that every day. But other than those two instances and a couple arrests (I only remember two-one was Bellisari DUI, but he was a Coop player-the other was some recruit or young player off-season breaking the law out-of-state). The second major issue is that Tressel seems to emphasize a focus on developing the character of his players in a way that Coop didn't. The graduation rate at OSU has gone way up since Tressel got here, which is no small feat in NCAA athletics world. You can't say that Tressel and his staff didn't try and help Clarett grow up-they went way out of their way for that kid. And keep in mind that Tressel is not the only quality coach who failed Clarett-some fellow out in Denver has a pretty good reputation for helping players mature as well. So in summary, I can be convinced otherwise on this, but I think that Tressel is a vast improvement over his predecessor. If you want a character example, look at Troy Smith vs. Clarett. Clarett got in trouble, shot his mouth off, turned his back on the program and has basically proven about four thousand times that he is a complete idiot whose word could never be trusted. Troy Smith got in trouble, but instead of continuing to dig he kept his mouth shut, took his lumps and took the challenge to grow as a person. Look where the two are today-Troy is climbing to the top of college football stardom while Clarett is, well Yost does a pretty good job of keeping us posted on where Clarett is. Basically I think that Tressel's cred has suffered greatly from some high-profile disturbances, rather than the much higher-frequency but lower-profile disturbances we saw under Coop.

Anyway, thats pretty much all of my two cents. Well, ok, this is more like a five dollar post. Whatevs.

Holy shit that was long. I mean, I thought it felt long when I typed it...then I posted it and it looks even longer. Sorry bout that.

gizmo-I don't think its the drunk-frat types as much as its the locals who didn't even go to college. You see, many many many of the Buckeye fans around here aren't alumni. I think this is unique in the college football world. The reason is simple-the Buckeyes are the only big game in town. The NHL is here, but that's just hockey and its just the past few years. The Browns and the Bengals are close, but Columbus wants to be like those big-kids (Cinci and Cleveland), so they buy into their 'equivalent' of the NFL teams in order to feel like Columbus has every thing the other cities have. Also, there is no major competing college football team in town-or even in region-outside Michigan and Penn State. You can't say that about Florida. So all these things combine to make people around Columbus more passionate that usual about Buckeye football. But the real problem is when *some* folks come in who are not school alumni and place regional pride on the line instead of school pride. Now, I'm not saying all people who didn't got to OSU but root for OSU are the problem, because then I would be implicating myself. But when you get these folks in here who could give a shit about the repuation of the University and just want to assert their, well, whatever you want to call it-pride, ego, control issues, whatever-these folks then get drunk and think they can do whatever to whoever.

As so well acknowledged above, the bigger problem lies in the masses of fans who don't do or say anything about it. The university might be taking steps to calm things down, but you rarely see one Buckeye tell another Buckeye to calm down. Personally I think there needs to be a stronger emphasis on the drinking. Public intoxication should not be OK on game day, it should be snuffed out. I know this is one major thing that keeps me from stepping between a drunk Buckey and an opposing team's fan-there's just no sense in reasoning with a drunk idiot.

Long, short or no winded, your comments are always welcome and appreciated.

My only quibble with your comments/manifesto :) is when you bring up the records. I've faced the same unfortunate incidents whether Coop was coach, before Coop was coach, now that Tressel is coach, etc. And when I heard about Texas fans last September, that is when I begin to realize it's a bigger problem than just against M fans. I don't say that to incite or rub salt, just an observation based on, as I said, many trips to Columbus.

By the way, do you still live in the Columbus area and/or go to the M/OSU game at the 'Shoe? I ask b/c I'd be curious to see some Buck folks take up somebody's idea to wear M gear this November at the game and see what happens. It's like that model who wore the fat suit in public to see how they were treated.

My comments regarding the records (2-10-1 vs 4-1) are totally unrelated to the treatment of the oppsosing team's fans in Columbus on game day.

The thread got a little off topic above-some anon Bucks were throwing down the 4-1 numbers and some of the locals around here were coming back with shut-up there is a bigger picture than the last five games...My point was that unless we get to the real history of the series we are always going to having pissing contests over recent streaks and other little bragging rights.

Yeah, I live in Columbus. But I won't be in town next year for the game, my Church will have sent me to *anytown* USA for a full-year internship in a congregation. Pfew, I'm kind of glad I don't have to take you up on that offer, I don't know if I'd be willing to take my life in my hands just to prove the point of a Michigan fan. Oops, did I just prove your point?

I actually have only been around campus for one UM game, in 2004. I didn't want to go b/c of the incidences surrounding the last home win over UM (I recall riots and cars being burnt), but my brother-in-law convinced me. We went to Hineygate, a commercial tailgate that no UM fans would have any reason to be around, then to the Schott with the overflow crowd (ok, the 'too-poor-to-get-in-to-the-real-game crowd). There were no UM folks in the Schott either, so I didn't run into any Wolverines that day. And when the game was over we practically ran to the car (in defense of the town though, the night of the win in 04 was much more calm than 02).

As an OSU grad whose senior year coincided with the 2002 title, I was fortunate enough to attend 5 straight editions of The Game ('98-'02) and, by and large, I personally never saw problems of the type that have been reported here. This is not a denial that they happen, but rather me saying I would like to think I'd be one of those Buckeyes apt to stop something from happening if I could.

I wouldn't attempt to deny that such things occur mainly because I totally believe that they do. Oftentimes I am utterly embarrassed by the behavior of OSU fans in general, and the antics only get ramped up for Michigan weekend, apparently. I don't know what happened to OSU fans over the years, but the university definitely needs to continue to curtail the burgeoning insanity on display in Columbus every Saturday in the fall.

I didn't get it then and I don't get it now, and I feel sorry for Wolverine fans who have had to put up with crap like stories that have been recounted here.

With all this talk of Ohio State fans I neglected to mention that I have extensive experience with the Illinois fanbase, my father. He's from Chicago and graduated from Illinois.

Your typical Illinois fan spends game day stretched out on the living room floor, drinking Busch beer while beating the floor and commiting numerous acts of blesphemy by shouting such things as "gaddammit" and "Jesus Christ" at an unhearing television set and telling his children that Dick Butkus was the greatest football player ever.

This same technique was applied to the Bears, who didn't get good until I left home.

Dear Author,I just wanted to compliment you on a very well written article. Even as a Buckeye fan and a soon to be graduate of TOSU I was extremely impressed with your fantastic use of rhetoric explaining your misfortunes.So impressed that I sent the article as a hyperlink to some of my friends and we all agreed that we were so proud of it that we were all going to frame it and hang it on our walls to show to our kids someday. SORRY YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THAT ELECTRIC FEELING THAT WE ALL GET WHEN WALKING TO THE STADIUM. It's not our fault that the Big House is full of yuppies that dont know how to cheer. Lastly, my best friend is front and center in your picture you posted up top with the goalpost. That picture was published in ESPN the Mag and currently hangs on his wall and is one of our best memories from college.4 out of 5....and Manningham aint Ginn

I am a huge bucknut and graduated from OSU in 2000. I agree with many of the statements made above. Our fans definitely get crazy during the OSU/SCum game.

However, I have had similar things happen to me while I was at away games in the Big Ten. I attended the OSU/SCum game in 2003. I was lucky enough to have 2 student seats which landed us right in the middle of a bunch of very obnoxious fans. I wouldn't have it any other way. My friend and I were the only two buckeye fans in the student section that I could see. It was a blast (except the final score of course). I had everyone in the stadium around me giving me the finger and dropping the F-bomb. I was completely respectful but just cheered my ass off instead of retaliating verbally or physically (which would surely result in a my ass getting stomped being in between an all SCum student section). Anyway, I think the fact that I wasn't bothered by their yelling pissed them off even more. When OSU made big plays in that game the stadium got so quiet you could hear a pin drop. That is when I was the loudest. Nobody would say a thing to me during big plays by OSU but everytime your players made a big play (too often for my liking obviously) we heard it.

I did go to a bar with a friend who went to grad school there and the crowd was very polite. One guy even bought me a beer. The older people at SCum were definitely nice but the kids were just as obnoxious as the OSU students.

After the game, we were walking by a few bars and most of the students were yelling at us dropping the F-bomb as usual and running by us pointing and acting crazy. I didn't see any fights though.

As for OSU being the worst fans I have to respectfully disagree. That honor goes to the Wisconsin Badger fans. They are the worst. I went to that game in 2003 in the rain and it was one of the best pregame party scenes. However, I was threatened several times by crazy fans there. I am not a small guy but everyone there is like a 240 pound LB. It's ridiculous. After the game was pretty scary going back to our hotel. The fans were absolutely crazy and offensive. Once again, I saw no fights.

As for OSU fans, I am sure most of the stories told are accurate. I have never witnessed any fights between fans from OSU/SCum but have seen the usual beer throwing, verbal abuse and throwing of hats. It is definitely out of hand but it is not as bad as everyone here makes it out to be. Also, the only normal away game experience I have had was at Ill'annoy' but they don't really count do they.

Anyway, I wanted to see if I could beat Capbuck ... we'll see. Good luck next season, except against us!

I am the guy who raised the verbal/physical dichotomy. Just so you know with whom you are talking.

So you agree with the basic premise, but disagree that "Fuck Michigan" is appropriate. This is absolutely baffling. Is it the presence of a "curse" word? For example, would "Michigan Sucks" be any better? If so, your skin is probably gotten too thin as our general society has gotten to crass (I for one curse like a sailor but am appalled when I hear "ass" on network TV). There is no real cure for this problem. I just say deal.

If a general "Michigan Sucks" would not be any better, then I guess you are dismayed by the general lack of originality and argument of the average Buckeye fan. On that note, I do find it disturbing that Buckeye fans can't come up with some good masturbation or sports marketing jokes to mock your football team. But, alas, not all Buckeye fans are going to read the internet just to know everything bad about their rivals. However, if the innocous statement "Michigan sucks" bothers you, then you are clearly bothered by more than something than the words.

And I know what it is. It is the unrelenting, dogmatic, allegience of Buckeye fans to loving tOSU and hating everything Michigan. Yes, that was partially ingrained on us by Woody. And yes, your victories in the 90's only increased the rancor. But I think deep down you are really jealous. Michigan fans- real ones- don't exist in the same numbers as OSU fans. It's not like in Ohio, where it seems almost the whole state backs the team, the stadium is always rocking and intimidating, and the passion is at a high level. From my perspective, Ann Arbor is almost seperate from the rest of Michigan. Sure, a whole bunch of Michigan people do attend the school. But it seems that a large number of out of state students also attend and leave the area when school is finished. Couple that with Michigan State to split the state's collegiate sporting interest and you get a fanbase that is only truly fired up when it comes to: (1) winning a national title and (2) ruining OSU's season. I think, deep down, that is every true Michigan fans deepest fear- that your general fan base really doesn't care - which gives you an inferiority complex when dealing with the almost religious affiliation of OSU's fans to the Buckeyes.

Yeah, Anon, that's it. We're all secretly jealous of Buckeyes. Just like deep down I'm secretly rooting for the Taliban.

As for being thin skinned, since you don't know me, you'll have to take my word for it that I don't have any problem with swear words, profanity, the f-bomb, any of that shit. If you only knew.

But why must you direct it at others? Why is there this need in Columbus, yourself obviously included, to yell "FUCK MICHIGAN!" at anything maize and blue rather than "GO BUCKS!"

You even raising the question about me being thin-skinned rather than asking why that need by your "fans" supports the very premise of my initial post -- that Ohio State fans are the most classless I've ever encountered. As for you, "GO FUCK YOURSELF!"

I’m going to take this whole, “everyone else is just jealous of Ohio State’s passionate fans” concept out to its logical extreme to see how it holds up.

No one here knows this about me, but I’m a real big fan of Solitaire. I mean it comes with Windows, so it’s on most computers and I just love it. I mean I really OMG love it. Solitaire just rules and I’m a true and real fan of it. I have a whole closet filled with Solitaire Gear, t-shirts, jackets, hats. All I ever wear is clothing with Solitaire stuff on it. I have a whole series of t-shirts that features every single card back available in Solitaire. They really rock.

And I really get into playing Solitaire, too, because I’m a real fan. When I lose a game, I get so angry, I have to smash my monitor. Sure, it gets expensive but, I really love winning at Solitaire so when I lose I just have to smash something. It’s because I’m so passionate about Solitaire.

Now, whenever I win a game, oh yeah, it’s time to celebrate. I jump up and down, yell, run outside screaming my head off. I make sure everyone within earshot knows that I WON and that Solitaire is the best thing ever. There’s nothing quite like celebrating a tough win in Solitaire. Then it’s off to the liquor store to load up on a lot of cheap booze so I can really celebrate right. That’s what being a real Solitaire fan is all about, getting shitfaced and setting stuff on fire, because Solitaire is such a great game and I have to celebrate properly. Couches, cars, trash, you name it, it’s going up in flames, an offering to the great Solitaire God in the sky.

Also, those other games that come with Windows are lame. They suck and just can’t compare to Solitaire. So, in addition to all my Solitaire apparel, I have a t-shirt that reads “Fuck Minesweeper.” Minesweeper sucks so bad it’s not even funny. Minesweeper players are jealous of us Solitaire players, they’re complete losers. I actually call the game “Mine Weeper” because Minesweeper players are crybabies. Get it?

Anyway, I love wearing my “Fuck Minesweeper” t-shirt around. I wear it to the mall, the movies, and the unemployment office. Sure, I get some funny looks from people, especially parents with their children, but hey, I’m a real Solitaire fan and I love my game and I want everyone else to know that all other games suck. There’s really nothing quite like hearing a seven year old say, “mommy, that man’s shirt says fuck minesweeper on it.” LOL! Another young mind converted, priceless.

Whenever I see someone actually playing Minesweeper, I get right in their face because that’s what real fans do. I scream, “fuck Minesweeper” at them. I wish I had some other things to think of but I’m so passionate about Solitaire I just can’t think of anything else to say. It’s like I’m operating on pure animal instinct. I do other stuff, too. If I’m across the room, I throw stuff at them, soda cans, coffee mugs, staplers, the phone, you name it, it’s heading downrange. Then, I run over and I block their view of the monitor with my hands, I even turn it off. I’ll start hitting the keys of their keyboard and trying to click their mouse. Man, you should see how pissed off they get. What a bunch of losers. Minesweeper players really are crybabies.

Anyway, it’s all about loving my game, Solitaire. It’s just the best there is. I’m not ashamed of it. I’m proud. Everyone else is a loser. Admit it, you’re all jealous of me, right?

Yost & BPD,f'ing funny comments. i shall never play minesweeper again, i swear!

"envy", in the classic sense (as one of the seven deadly sins), is a huge part of the buckeye nation's psyche. as a group, they're really never satisfied w/ themselves. they are constantly seeking outside confirmation/adulation. standard (almost patented) comments in the Dispatch letters or call in shows orbit around how they never get any respect or no one in the press gives them enough credit. in short, they're insecure and the bluster or outward aggression towards others is just a coping mechanism.

when you really don't have confidence in who you are, you are compelled to reinforce on others who you think doubt you, too (like the loser w/ the bad job who kicks his dog when he gets home). they are so ashamed of the john cooper era, they compare carr to coop, even though their records are very different. it's why they think ESPN and the NY Times are out to get them. and it's why anyone who doubts them has to be yelled at or must just be jealous of them.

for example, think of all tOSU fans who have logged in and commented about this. basically, this is a blog of m fans who have spent the last few months pissing about carr, refs, and tosu fans. why would you bother to even read it, let alone feel compelled to argue about it? granted, some of them have had interesting things to say and are welcome contributors (they're probably reading this because they're just bored at work and interested in how the other half lives), but the "f- you" crowd? why bother? because 10-2 and a big ten co-title aren't enough. they need to reinforce it on someone else.

As a lifetime Buckeye, it does sicken me when teams (and bands) are treated badly. As a recent alumni of the OSUMB (Ohio State University Marching Band) I was on the trip to Penn State where fans threw beer, urine, blow-up dolls (that was just funny) as well as berated us verbally the entire time. I know that OSU fans treat Michigan fans badly... but I also know from my visits to the Big House that the OSUMB needs to watch its step as well. Loss of hats, booing of Script Ohio- it's a give-take game. Don't complain about it- I had a buddy in the Florida State marching band, and apparently, down South, it's even worse.

As for the Texas fan... that was the biggest piece of bullshit ever. The current OSU president is not liked by the students as a ignorant and conceding person, and to apologize for one fan being verbally berated whereas all of the treatment by other fans is identical... just insane.

Yeah Yost, you made your point. That Michigan fans are so thin-skinned that when called thin-skinned, they lash out in anger.

Have you ever thought of the effect of hollering at Michigan fans "Go Bucks"? I imagine the receptions will range from quizical to "Fuck the Buckeyes." I see no point at celebrating my team to the opposing fans. Maybe you would think I am delerious or stupid or something if I did such an idiotic thing.

No, telling you and your Taliban-loving kind to fuck off (ok, we don't say that, we say "Fuck Michigan") is much more entertaining, especially when you whine and pout by writing such sad blog entries.

Sad blog entries that you reply and reply and reply to. How sad is that, eh?

Look, my point was, good natured smack talk - even anti-Michigan smack talk (or anti-whatever team) - is not only fine, but a great part of college football. But, to have to be vile about it, to get in my father's face, flipping him off while screaming "Fuck Michigan" is what's truly sad.

And instead of being appalled by such behavior yourself, you instead brand those that don't welcome such classlessness w/ open arms as "whiners." That is saddest of all.

as one of the operators of this blog, you can edit or remove comments, posts?

i would ask any of these anon tosu fans if they could imagine a debate like this taking place on bucknuts or ozone? do they seriously think any of tosu blogs would allow m fans to consistently enter comments like theirs directed towards tosu on to "their" sites? never.

all of tosu sites are very exclusionary and hypersensitive to allowing anyone to say anything negative about the suckeyes. some of these morons should be thanking you for letting them into a forum their own fans would deny you or any of us, rather than telling you to "F" yourself.

Just a thought...A lot of talk about the word "fuck"...no doubt its not the most polite thing to say, but is there a chance that as the Baby Boomers begin to get older, they will be the only ones who consider the word as "terrible"?...Is there a chance that the word fuck is just becoming more commonplace in society. Because honestly people, I am not afraid to admit that I am a Buckeye fan to the core, however, I have been to the Big House, Happy Valley, and to MANY games in the Horseshoe, and everywhere I go, the words FUCK Michigan, Fuck Tressel, Fuck Penn State, Fuck Ohio State, so on and so forth(and thats just in the Midwest, Ive heard its 3 times as bad in Gainesville and Tuscaloosa)...So I guess my question is are we getting to a point in socitey where FUCK is just a lot more commonplace in certain cultures?...This post, unlike my last one is not meant to take a side whatsoever, and I hope I dont offend anyone, but it may be something to consider...

anon,certainly the use of "fuck" has become more common, if not acceptable. it used to be one of the "seven words you can't say on TV". now i'm not sure there are any.

however, like so many things, its usage and intent are the real question. as oliver wendall holmes said (another quote for our nd/tosu/ut anon): even a dog knows the difference between being stepped on and kicked. there's a big difference between hearing "what the fuck" and being told "fuck you".

the thing w/ tosu & the stadium is not that people randomly stand around yelling "fuck michigan". i've heard a fair amount of "fuck ___" everywhere, but it's usually directed at the field. in tosu snakepit, it's more often than not directed personally at someone two seats away. it's usually not a "cheer" (albeit a negative one) but a taunt, directed at someone in the crowd, done for the purpose of intimidating or harassing another fan.

and, it's not just fuck michigan. every school that plays at tosu has a story to tell. go log onto a MooSU, PSU, Wisc, PU, IU, NU, or even an ND blog and ask them, amongst the ones who have been to a game @ tosu, where the rudest, most violent fans are the vast majority will tell you columbus.

Yost,had forgotten that episode from last november. thanks for reminding me what cowards they really are.

Hey everybody - thanks for an eye-opening dialogue. I was born and raised in Columbus, where my dad was an OSU prof. He had season tickets when I was a kid, and I'm a huge fan to this day. Didn't go to OSU because 18 years in Columbus was just plenty, thank you.

Since then I've lived in Texas for ten years followed by ten more internationally in places like Bosnia, Serbia and Iraq. I've always been a fan, but overseas it's really meant a lot to me to be able to hear games over the internet. It's connected me to home and great memories of Saturday games, flat cokes, Woody and Archie, etc. It's easy now, after such a long time, and with OSU's program doing well, to have let time and distance concoct a rosy memory of how great and spirited and eminently decent everything and everyone was on game days at the Shoe. (That's, of course, why everyone loves college football.)

After almost 30 years, I finally had a chance to get to a game this fall in Columbus - Northwestern - with my girlfriend and her family. My girlfriend is a Northwestern grad and had her gear on, and even though our seats were in the visitors' section, she was pretty much the only one in purple. We weathered some good-natured ribbing on our way to the seats (I was wearing an Archie jersey), nothing remotely serious, but as the game started a college-age guy behind us started razzing her loudly. Before we even realized what was happening, a 40-ish woman in OSU gear turned on him and witheringly read him the riot act. We were grateful to her; humbled, the jerk skulked off in shame. I'm certainly not thin-skinned - a decade in war zones will inure you to all kinds of abuse - but this idiot almost ruined our experience before the game even began. I'd looked forward to attending a home game for years, flew thousands of miles to get to it, dropped $500 on tickets...to have some East Campus jackass harass my girlfriend for wearing a purple sweatshirt?

I'm not naive. This was a low-pressure game, and I'm sure things get overheated when a Michigan or a Texas comes to town. It's sobering to hear the accounts people are offering of what's happened to them at the Shoe, and it pisses me off. I don't care what happens to OSU fans in Ann Arbor or Madison or wherever - let UM and UW fans handle that. I want the Shoe to live up to the legend it's earned and not get hijacked by a flotilla of abusive morons. And there are many others out there, I think, who share that sentiment.

I get worked up for the Michigan game every year because it's the greatest rivalry in sports. Thanks for a great series and a great tradition - wouldn't be the same without ya. I'm on a one-man mission to put things right: next UM fan I meet, I'm buying them a beer. See you next fall, and Go Bucks!

Great comments, indeed. Your point about "But their fans do it" as an excuse is excellent for all college football fans. No fan from any school should feel threatened or be abused at a college football game. Period.

BpDDont mean to be a pest, but your wrong, Ive had people up in MY face at the Big House, and PSU...I actually got punched at PSU...you have this notion that it only happens here and your wrong, plain and simple...i know im not going to win this battle on a Michigan website, but get a grip, its comments like yours where the bias is so clear that its painful

Which comment are you referring to? If it’s the “Solitaire” comment, I was not stating that this is how Ohio State fans, and only Ohio State fans act. My point is that this is a game, and punching people, throwing things at them, threatening them, and bombarding them with profanity is just plain stupid regardless of who does it. The Michigan fan who got in your face in Ann Arbor was indeed a total jackass.

I was merely using the example of “Solitaire” to illustrate just how stupid this sort of behavior is since there were several Ohio State fans posting here who seemed to think that it’s OK when supporting their team. My feeling on this issue is that we are all fans of the great sport of college football. Who we root for is determined by where we were born, where we grew up, where we went to college, or where we currently live.

So, we’re all pretty much alike and it’s pretty stupid to throw bottles at someone you actually share a common interest with. It’s stupid to throw them at anyone, unless you happen to live in some Third World country and are starving and civil unrest is the only option to redress any grievances, but that’s not my point.

i have no doubt you've had people in your face in A2 and Happy Valley. it happens. and let's face it- tOSU fans generally get treated more poorly than other visiting fans.

and do you know why? because you've earned it.

your home crowd is so much out of control compared to other venues, many fans (of all schools) feel they have a license to retaliate at home. everyone in the big ten (and from texas) has a tOSU horror story. i have friends who went to washington, marshall, wyoming, BG, and miami who have seen/had ugly experiences at tOSU games. if your fans throw things at the PSU band, good chance someone @ PSU is going to throw something @ yours.

the difference between tosu and the other schools is while your worst experience may be @ one of several schools, everyone else's worst experience is usually in columbus.

Actually, now that I've read post after post by all of these shaved-clam UM fans, I'm now determined to be as big a jerk as possible this upcoming season.

You've obviously come to the conclusion that the 'Shoe and it's immediate surroundings are hostile places. Ergo, it's probably a good place to avoid going dressed in (sc)UM garb. The fact that you'd rather it NOT be a hostile place is irrelevant. Maybe, in your michigander logic, you'd also like to be able to walk into a lion's cage wearing a pork chop sports jacket. Same deal.

What would an ideal setting be? Ferris wheels, mimes, complimentary Whitman samplers? OSU fans slapping you on the back, "Gee, great to see you guy! Care for a brat? Good luck, guy!"

Not gonna happen. Want to come to C-Bus on game day? Then leave that fey UM gear at home, break out the credit card (if you actually can get one), rent a car, slither in quietly, creep away once we hang another one on you.

Is the whole polemic important? No. That's what makes all this whining, simpering, and referring to "guys that that been in real war" so fruity and feminine. Yes, Columbus is a really, really, mean place for visiting fans. A nasty place, for 6 whole days out of the year. You guys up north get to lay claim to that bomb crater that you refer to as "Detroit" all 365.

sc(UM) fans, stop crying, and go get that surgery that you so deperately need. You know...that one where they sew up that slit between your legs.

The first six paragraphs of this blog describe my feelings and experiences as an Ohio State fan that has made the trip to um many times. I didn't miss an OSU-um game from 1982 to 2000. It finally became too much to make the trip north.

The constant barrage of insults and curses from um fans - young and old - has ruined the game experience to the point that I would rather stay at home. If that is the ultimate goal of um fans, then you've succeeded.

You're right. Michigan fans are known for their wild, crazy, raise some hell behavior. I mean, we hear it all the time about how awful it is for opposing fans in A2. Ah, if only we could be more like those fine upstanding Buckeye fans.

As a Texas grad, I can't even tell you how much crap me and my friends got from OSU fans during that weekend. Just a classless bunch. I hope I never have to step foot in that shithole town ever again. I wonder if they are so mean b/c they go to a shitty school in a shitty town? In contrast, the Michigan and USC fans the past 2 yrs at the RB have been great. Then again, Ann Arbor and LA are infinitely better than Columbus.

Right on the money Yost. I've been the beneficiary of many rude comments in Columbus. So many that I don't outwardly wear any UM colors anymore.

We're not the only Big 10 fans that think this either. A couple years ago, I was at the Big House for a PSU game. We were chatting with many of the PSU neighbors and they thanked us for being gracious and kind fans. They had been to Columbus and OSU games in Happy Valley. They said OSU fans were the rudest ever encountered.

Sad thing is, Buck fans don't see this. They think it's just M fans or PSU fans trash talking. But you'd think - after so many other teams say Tosu fans are the worst, hands down - that they might say maybe there's something to what all are saying.

Instead, they'd rather say it's the same in A2 or Happy Valley or whatever school brings this up.

I have been a huge OSU fan since I can remember. I've been to three osu/um games, two in the 'shoe, and one in A2.

I've been known to shout out to some "f" michigans to your fans, or ask them if they knew what the score was after we've won. I'm not going to lay my hands on someone or cause any damage. But a good verbal war is great.

I heard a few "f" Ohio State's myself this past year in A2. I just said my arguments back and it was no big deal. Anything but saying something racist is fine. We hear profanities everyday, at work, movies, etc. Words are only words, nothing more.

My cousin, who had to sit in the um student section this year, got treated really bad. Change, batteries, and cups thrown his way several times. The um students had a blow up penis that they were tossing around the student section like a beach ball. Honestly, I think it's funny. But if that was the other way around, you guys would have been saying that osu fans are vulgar. Then after the game, a fellow group of Buckeye fans were walking next to me, and one guy used a profanity in conversation. The um fan next to us go pissed and told him to watch his mouth. But I bet she didn't or wouldn't have said anything about the giant blow-up penis getting passed around for the national audience to see.

Allow me to apologize for any objects that were thrown. I think that is horrible and shouldn't be tolerated on either side. Fans of both schools need to stop that in its tracks before somebody gets hurt.

Hey, I love good smack talk. But folks need to have some common sense and realize there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

I will admit being s die hard Ohio State fan, that I HATE every single Michigan fan, player, band member, alum etc etc. Its not because you guys have tradition. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. No ones tradition compares to Ohio States. I have no idea why you "fans" think the college football world rotates around you. What kind of fan says "take a number" when refering to how much coaches have beat up on you. That just shows that scUM fans are nothing but low life bandwagon jumpers. You guys can use statistics from 1912 to say you are the better team but since 1950 who owns the rivalry record?THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITYNow it is my turn to shout FUCK MICHIGAN

I think the genesis of this all is that teams fanbases gradually aquire the personality of major figures in their program. Therefore, Michigan fans have over the years become Bo and Lloyd, crotchety, stubborn, hard-nosed, and a little whiney. Whereas Buckeye fans have become Woody Hayes, loudmouthed, violent, crass, boorish assholes.

I've only been to Ann Arbor for the game twice So I don't have as many bad stories about AA as you have about Cbus. However, this past year, I was walking through campus with a group of probably 7 or 8 fellow-Buckeyes past a house that had a yard full of students pregaming. While we were walking we started to get showered with plastic pop bottles filled with water, this didn't bother me a great deal, I just had to look out and avoid them. Then someone threw a full glass beer bottle. Unfortunately, when glass hits a telephone pole it shatters and goes everywhere and becomes much harder to avoid. My friend took a piece of glass in the eye.

On my previous trip to AA I was harassed and heard a lot of vulgarities sent my way. that didn't bother me. I expect some ribbing in that situation. However, when a Michigan fan pushed my 8-year-old cousin into the street and yelled Fuck Ohio State, I felt he had gone too far. Now there was a nice UM lady who helped my cousin up and asked if he wanted some ice out of their cooler. But the point is UM has just as many assholes as OSU. Yes the assholes come out en masse to the UM-OSU game more than they would for say Indiana or Northwestern.

p.s. I go to OSU, my car window has been busted in 4 times...don't take it personal

I'm sorry to chime in so late but as a Longhorn fan who's experienced attending games against different teams than Michigan fans I'd have to put Arkansas fans somewhere near the top of the 'worst fans' list. I didn't witness a game between the two teams until the 1999 Cotton Bowl, but the reaction to Major Applewhite going down in the game (eventually revealed to be a torn ACL) was anything but classy.

When we renewed our rivalry in 03 and 04 I was warned by older fans that the trip to Arkansas should pass through Oklahoma because, if they hadn't mellowed since leaving the SWC, gas stations would likely not sell to people with Texas plates that weekend. The reaction to us winning out there was pretty violent and chaotic. Throw in things like messageboard posts (i know, online stuff should be taken with a grain of salt but they already earned 'worst' before this) during the Baseball playoffs and you have a top contender. Would be interested to see if SEC fans agree or if it's just when they play Texas.

As to the original post, I don't doubt those things happened to Michigan fans in Columbus. I was at the game in 2002 when campus turned into a semi-third world de-militarized zone. I've seen drunkeness at the games and some of the other behavior you listed here. I've seen it some other places too, although I'll admit that I've only been to the Big House once and it wasn't during a game. Nice campus you guys have, by the way.

On a personal level, giving each other a good-natured hard time is what the rivalry is all about. For every story you listed, I could give you one of good-natured ribbing I've encountered in my five OSU-Michigan games and my thirty-odd years as an OSU fan.

At the games, most of the time, I encounter UM fans while waiting in line for food, or the restrooms, I see the fans interacting with each other in a way that I know they appreciate the rivalry. Giving each other crap, to me, is part of the fun, but I'm always careful to do it with a smile.

I really believe that the behaviors you list are of the minority. Like any college football atmosphere, you are gonna get idiots, which is the way I look at it. As a UM fan, your perception of the percentage may vary (and inevitably will), but I prefer to look at the positives:

I am proud to say that I hate Michigan. I hate the fight song, the Big House, the uniforms, and everything else. Now, you can flip that around and say the same thing about us. It doesn't bother me. In fact, I love it.

As fans of both universities, we are envied by a lot of teams who play meaningless games in November. Every time we play each other, it counts for something. I love it. Would you rather be in Michigan/Ohio State on a late November afternoon, or would you rather be watching some crappy PAC-10 game? (I'm sure we can all agree that THOSE guys are over-rated... common ground here, huh?)

I love the fact that Woody once threw a chair at Bo during a meeting when Bo was a coach here.

Although it is painful, I love the fact that one team could come in 10-0 and the other 0-10 and ruin an undefeated season.

I love seeing the scarlet and gray charge the field against those damn yellow and blue uniforms (I know how that gets under your skin... I know, I know it's maize).

I was at the National Championship game against Miami in 2003. We booed one of the parachuters who came in during the pre-game festivities... they announced that he was from Michigan. I love it.

I was raised to hate everything about Michigan, but to love the rivalry. I hope most of you look at it the same way. I think that you do.

So, the next time you see an Ohio State fan with a glint in his eye, give him a friendly "f-you", but do it with a smile. I live and die for the Bucks, but I don't take it that personally.

So, I will end this with a friendly "F--- Michigan" and hope you return the same courtesy with a smile on your face and a knowing grin.

BTW, my vote would go to Wisconsin fans - 1987 - my grandfather and I left the stadium as we were pelted with some unknown objects. Been challenged to a fight by a Wisconsin fan IN the Horseshoe.

I agree that the rivalry is indeed a beautiful thing and part of what makes college football so great. But, how can you boo a guy from the Golden Knights? Since he's an Army sergeant, it's unlikely he ever went to the University of Michigan. Being from the midwest, he was likely rooting for Ohio State in that game.

"But, how can you boo a guy from the Golden Knights? Since he's an Army sergeant, it's unlikely he ever went to the University of Michigan. Being from the midwest, he was likely rooting for Ohio State in that game."

The spirit of the rivalry, man. If he truly was an Ohio State fan, he probably thought it was funny as hell. Being from Michigan, my guess is that at best, he was a Spartan man.

I watched the tape of the game and if I remember correctly, Keith Jackson and Dan Fouts commented on it - in a tongue and cheek - ain't it a great rivalry kind of thing.

If the Cooper era taught us one thing, it is that if we don't maintain a healthy hate for the state of Michigan, we might as well stay home.

Based on looking around the site here, I'd say that the fans from up north agree with this sentiment.

As an Ohio State student, I was able to go to the Michigan game this year. I was in a big group and only got the "F--- You" and "F--- Ohio State" from afar. (To the Michigan fan and father of a very young girl next to our group, thank you for being classy and standing up to your fans who berated us for hours as we tailgated prior to the game.) Now for my brother, he walked past some golf course near the stadium (maybe UM people know where that is ?) and was spit on, had plastic bottles thrown at him, all kinds of stuff. He said absolutely nothing to deserve this. So the argument goes both ways. And oh boy, you guys definitely have an argument when coming to the Shoe. But that's not really what I wanted to get at.

It seems to me, that night games in general bring out the worst. Just a recent memory of some famed OSU games (losses unfortunately) are:

Texas - All the Texas fans I talked to had a great time, but I can see where some people had issues.

Wisconsin - apparently one of the worst experiences for Buckeye fans at an away game...

Penn State - Dude, why do people throw things at a band? That's just weird...

My point is, at all of these games, drunkenness was a major issue that contributed to the atmosphere. I haven't seen this point brought up anywhere before, and I thought I would just see how people felt about this. How much is alcohol playing a part in the abuse going both directions in the rivalry? And for night games (which the OSU-UM rivalry never has) as well?

I am probably older than about all of you. Once I took my CPA wife over to Texas A&M for what was supposed to be a relaxing weekend of baseball after the extreme stress of tax season. I still have my score book with the brown stains of the tobacco juice spit on us by the aggies in the upper deck (we are Texas grads). A real class act. This past season a younger friend of ours went with her husband and three young daughters to the game in Waco between UT and Baylor. They were verbally and physically assaulted throughout the game by shithead Texas fans. A real class act. Degenerate, disgusting sports fans fill all our arenas today because we are a society that is mentally ill. I believe it will all be eliminated when the war with China comes. And sometimes I think that might be a good thing for the world.

Yes, some of us Buckeye fans can get roudy, and upset, but MOST loyal Buckeye fans (myself included) have much RESPECT for Michigan, and their fans. It's born out of years of traditional rivalry. I'll say some Buckeye fans go over the top, but if you look at how many times (and ways) UM beat our beloved Bucks during the years under John Cooper (and don't get me wrong, Coop is an OUTSTANDING coach and we are proud he's a Buckeye, but Michigan always seemed to have his number). We usually had FAR superior teams, and some of them were undefeated, only to get our hopes and dreams broken by the Wolverines. We were even up under Woody and Earl Bruce. So we kind of feel like we owe you a few!!!

But regardless of what happens on the field between OSU and UM (we like to keep that in-house), we here in Columbus, ALWAYS support all of our BIG 10 brothers (including your Wolverines) when it comes to bowl games. You represent not only Michigan when you go to a bowl game, you also represent the rest of the Big 10.

1. TOSU means: THE ohio state university. Next time you watch Monday Night Football player introductions, you'll get it.

2. Bucks Fan - Right back at cha'. I actually root for Tosu during the pre-Big Game season to ensure that our little get together in November is for the Big Ten Championship. I understand there are a-holes on both sides, it is nice to bump into a great fan like you. "Go Bucks - every day but the third Saturday in November"

I thought I'd post a belated fact about fans at The Shoe. Most tOSU fans at gamedays in Columbus are not and have never been students. They are the hicks and trash from the Columbus area causing problems because there is absolutely nothing else for 100 miles. When I lived on campus in Cbus, our parties were overwhelmed by non-students, and when rioters are arrested near campus, almost always, they are not students. Another note, Illinois fans still suck. I went to the PSU game w/ some friends last season, and shit was being thown in our direction. It's a good thing their aim was as good as their qb's. I do like Memorial Stadiums lax security policy though when one is caught with a can of beer.

Michigan??? Can you be more specific? Oh that team up north. Right, right. Almost forgot about them.

As an OSU alum and fan, I have a lot of respect for Michigan's program. It will always have the historical thing going for it. But right now, and looking ahead, I really consider the University of Cincinnati our big rival. Especially with Mark Dantonio and the boys moving to the Big East. That's really going to be tOSU's rival going forward. Michigan's program just seems like it might be in year six of a several year slump. Tressel might have their number for a while and Ohio really needs an in-state rival. Look for the UC rivalry to build over time.

It could be worse. I go to BC, home of Alumni Stadium. Alumni is not only woefully undersized for top-25 BCS competition at 44,500 seats, but gamedays have all the atmosphere of a tennis match. On foul weather days (and being in Boston, most of our games are rainy and cold) you can bet on 40-50% attendance at best. The student section is barren during a downpour as well.

I have been to quite a few Big 10 games all around the midwest and I am so proud to be a Bucknut. Blogs like this make me rabid in July for the start of the season. I love to hear other people articulate what we already know: OSU fans are hooligans.

Maybe its my Scottish heritage, but I think you should be "uncomfortable" in someone else's stadium. You should have to walk to the game wondering if some nutjob from the home team is going to dump a beer on you or call your faorite player a "really bad name". C'mon folks, until I read about a gang rape or a ritual killing in the horseshoe, I'm more than OK with what I've read here.

Before all of you Ivy-league wannabe's label yourselves as the saints of the rivalry, I work with a "Michigan Man". This guy leaves voicemails like, "Hey, I'm gonna be late for the meeting cuz I have to take a huge shit." He has a reputation as a nose-picker also.

Point is this: our fans care about gameday, but also every other day of the year. We will never let up. This thing is a journey-not a destination. We will continue to chuck 9 volts, call your mom a whore, and even pick fights if we lose.

My suggestion to you is to get that living room you call a stadium a bit more rowdy and beat us every once in a while. Then dump a beer on a buckeye fan on the way out and smile.

WAHHHH! Stay home then, I played in The Ohio State Marching Band for 5 years and made 3 trips to scUM. GUESS WHAT - IT WAS NO PICNIC!!! Batteries, Cigarettes/ashes/Cigars, quarters, bottles, cans, you name it thrown at us. Pushing, yelling, people grabbing us as we go below sea level to enter your crap hole of a stadium.

I promise you, whatever occurs on game day in Columbus goes on in Ann Arbor, only one thing remains the same,

the Bucks win. Grow a set of balls, take off your skirt, and be prepared to lose again to OSU this year.

First let me just say the joking around to diss each others teams is great I love it, but when you start bashing bullshit like its the truth just to get in some shit on the other team, it isn't near as funny. Shit fools I'd take it as a compliment that Ohio State fans are your least favorite fans. It's called a rivalry. Probably the greatest rivalry in sports. I'm saddened that you try to weaken it with all the shit you talk that Michigan can't backup anymore.

Yost, why are you going about talking like Michigan is basically the unloved red-headed stephild in this relationship. The only similarity beween Michigan and a red headed stepchild is the beating both take year in and year out. What a one-sided bastard you are. You're not only hypocritical by you saying this while you are clearly a shitty fan yourself but fucking blind if you truly only see the bad things Ohio State fans do. Uh oh, I said the f word I know how you all get into a little tizzy about using foul language and especially in the name of Michigan. I suppose you and your posse of "friends" are going to try and talk shit about me and where I got my education. lol if only you knew. Anyhow you really are onto something Yost with this site. It's funny in a lot of ways *wink wink* but mainly because I see it as a joke that you're a grown man that whacks his puddly to this website all day. Keep on rocking out dude. It's your calling I swear.

BTW...if anything you should have sucked it up and put your own fans first because Michigan fans can easily take the cake here folks. Don't let Yost blind you. lol he's evil.

P.S. I dont wish violence on anyone but your daddy deserved that bottle to the back of the head *wink wink* Millions of sperm and Yost makes it to the finish line first what a joke. lol

Even if it is true that tOSU fans are more abusive than Michigan fans, that is besides the point. Throwing batteries at opposing fans and picking fights is not going to help your team win. Sportsmanship should be a mutual expectation for visiting and home fans.

At last year's Game, I tailgated in the golf course and a carful of tOSU fans parked next to me and my friends. For a couple of minutes it was kind of awkward, but soon we were sharing food/drinks. Sharing laughs. Giving each other a hard time. My friends and I went to the game, cheered like Hell, Michigan lost, and afterwards we tailgated with the same tOSU guys, waiting for the traffic to die down. We even gave them a jump when their car wouldn't start (proto-typical Buckeyes--these guys brought twenty pounds of meat, four cases of beer, a state-of-the-art grill, but no jumper cables). No hard feelings.

I've never been to a game at the 'shoe (going for the first time this year), but I've been to Camp Randall. In the student section. When Ron Dayne was playing. We were verbally abused at the game, walking to the game, & etc. Camp Randall was chaos. Loudest place I've ever been. Louder even than Autzen (which reminds me, Oregon fans are something else... the only other time I'd seen such a free exchange of love/booze/drugs was Woodstock '94). Michigan won, and after the game the Wisconsin fans were great. We went out that night, wearing Michigan gear, singing "The Victors" at every opportunity. Occasionally, we'd get a "Lions suck," "Go Packers," or better yet, the Wisconsin fightsong in response. But for the most part they were just happy to share Madtown with us on a Saturday night. Even after Michigan had beat up Ron Dayne.

This is my response to the Buckeye poster who posed the question "what type of environment do you expect?" Cheer like hell for your team during the game and act with civility before and afterwards, win or lose. The other 364 days, we share a larger community. We may work together, fight together. Do not do anything to embarras your school.

It does go both ways. As an OSU fan I have been "proudly displaying" the scarlet & gray a UM...only to be cursed out, pelted with pennies (sometimes in marshmellows...sometimes not) and hit in the head with iceballs. In fact one drunken coed was climbing to get past us to her seat, but as she realized we were Buck fans she screams in our face "Buckeyes suck, you fuckin suck." all while spitting saliva and stale beer in our direction. Then she stumbled over us to her seat. Then one time when parking in someones yard, they saw we had Ohio plates...when we got back to our car we were parked in by several cars with UM flags. We waited about 5 hours before we could get our car out. The keys had mysteriously disappeared for those vehicles.

Well... It sure does add to the atmosphere and mystique - And, there are quite a bit more buckeye fans out there than Michigan, so its expected to have more people acting unruly - Also, if a Michigan fan decides to call a buckeye fan a hillbilly or redeck or trailer trash etc, then they shuold probably expect something in return -That said, comments made verbally should not be such a big deal - Batteries thrown etc... That's not good...

Well... It sure does add to the atmosphere and mystique - And, there are quite a bit more buckeye fans out there than Michigan, so its expected to have more people acting unruly - Also, if a Michigan fan decides to call a buckeye fan a hillbilly or redeck or trailer trash etc, then they shuold probably expect something in return -That said, comments made verbally should not be such a big deal - Batteries thrown etc... That's not good...

While I have many stories I could share about the abuse I've received in Columbus over the years, I thought I would share my personal favorite, even though it wasn't tOSU on Michigan violence/abuse. But it does paint a pretty vivid picture of how ridiculous it can get in Columbus on the day of The Game.

I was there in '02 for the game, and afterwards the obligatory rioting ensued. As I was standing on High street watching in amazement, I witnessed an almost surreal moment. A young buckeye fan decided to "spice things up a bit" and was busy throwing the newspaper stands into the street. As he was in the street trying to bust up one particularly tough and stubborn USA Today newsstand, an suv came driving by and the passenger opened the door and hit mr. newspaper with the door at about 25mph. Mr. Newspaper, not missing a beat, spun around and managed to stay on his feet, then proceeded to pick up a beer bottle laying in the street and quickly launched the innocent bottle at the suv, which then shattered against the window. He then went back to his newspaper stand antics. No one even blinked, I looked around and it got no more attention than somebody throwing their gum away. I was amazed.

I could go on all day about fights and bottles being thrown at me, but I think this does best in giving a little example of the experience down there during The Game.

I am neither an OSU or UofM fan but I will say both fan base are fanatical. However Michigan is closer to the norm that you would expect from a general college atmosphere. They have their bad apples but nobody on this planet are as bad at the OSU fans. I went to one game in Columbus Texas OSU this year and I will NEVER go back their. Where are the police? It is not safe. Michigan is not much better when we played them with Young's rise to stardom we had a few bad apples but again nothing comparable to buckeye nation. I know most people are not going to like this but I believe Notre Dame fans are the most courteous. I would then place Tennessee next followed by Alabama fans. That is my take from a neutral position. I respect Michigan as a university and their fans but I will never have the same for OSU and their fans.

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