Shibby, I'm about to buy a new router (currently have the e-3000) can you please give me your opinion of the best tomato supported router out there? Would you recommend getting the one on this thread d-link 868L or go with asus RT-AC66U or RT-AC68U or netgear R7000? which one is faster? which one is more reliable under tomato? Thank you in advance

In my opinion (Not that you asked for it, but for what it's worth since someone else PM'd me a similar question today ):

The AC66U is a cheaper (-$30) and slightly slower version of the AC68U (as well as only having USB 2 ports AFAIK). As far as stability goes on the AC68U from experience, I think it's completely rock solid and has been since Shibby ported ARM to it (v116). There's a couple of features that don't work such as Daily/Weekly/Monthly Bandwidth Monitoring/IP Traffic lists, but that for me isn't a big issue. Range is also fantastic - 20 meters through double brick walls, and up to 140 meters in plain unobstructed sight with stock antennas.

As far as the R7000 goes, it appears to be very popular (and has slightly better hardware than the AC68U) but there are a few people here having issues with high ping due to Tomato being installed that isn't present in stock firmware. If you're looking to get a router today, I'd personally go with one of the Asus routers according to your budget.

Awesome specs for the price! In the UK this is available at about 45% of the price of a Netgear R7000!
I do love the design, I'm just not sure about the standing position when it comes to ethernet cables...

Nice to see some design applied to technology in general especially if you're having this sitting in your living room...

Shibby: please update the router support page on your site with this great addition!

Awesome specs for the price! In the UK this is available at about 45% of the price of a Netgear R7000!
I do love the design, I'm just not sure about the standing position when it comes to ethernet cables...

Nice to see some design applied to technology in general especially if you're having this sitting in your living room...

Shibby: please update the router support page on your site with this great addition!

P.S. Why is the image only 9.8MB compared to the other ARMs AIO?

Click to expand...

As Shibby mentions in this thread: http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asus-rt-n18u-really-nice-router.70178/
"DIR868L has one big issue. It support only 32KB of NVRAM!! If you will try store more then you will brick your router. Only chance to revive then is serial cable! Please remember that! This is why for this router image has name "special", because i had to remove all features which store so many variables in nvram, like: BT, openVPN, SSH etc."

And @shibby20 I have an idea.
Since DIR-868L has 128MB flash and Tomato only use 16MB, is it possible to divide flash into 2 parts, one for Tomato itself and the other one for setting storage, so BT/OPenVPN/SSH etc. can store their settings?
Or simply store settings via jffs2. When user performs a firmware update, Tomato asks to save settings in jffs2, and when update completes upload settings back.

And @shibby20 I have an idea.
Since DIR-868L has 128MB flash and Tomato only use 16MB, is it possible to divide flash into 2 parts, one for Tomato itself and the other one for setting storage, so BT/OPenVPN/SSH etc. can store their settings?
Or simply store settings via jffs2. When user performs a firmware update, Tomato asks to save settings in jffs2, and when update completes upload settings back.

Can anyone elaborate on the exact features that are missing on DIR-868L due to the 32KB of NVRAM?
I have no need for BT/OPenVPN/SSH - but the etc part worries me a bit
The router will be used as AP with VLANs - and the monitoring features would be nice to have.

anyway to support jffs2?
I want to store dnsmasq custom configuration script on it and I don't want a usb stick just for a 8KB file...
and no SSH support is so sad... is there any chance to store config file in somewhere else like jffs2 or USB stick?

Thanks a lot for the feature list.
But please bear with me - I do not know the entire feature list - and abbreviations.
So I am still unsure about exactly which Tomato features have been cut from the DIR-868l image.

:/ I wish that it had antennas... I cant suggest anything to customers that doesn't have antennas. Will there be support of the Asus RT-AC87U? I would wait for it to drop in price rather than move to R7000 if i know there would be Shibby support in the future.

You know these routers have antennas too, they are just inside the case.

If you disassemble one the stock external antennas and compared the inside to internal antennas you'll see that the only difference is that you can position the external ones a bit easier.

Don't be fooled by the size of the external antenna casing, the actual antenna inside the plastics is often not longer than between ~3 and ~5 centimeter.

Click to expand...

Yes, I am aware and I contemplated doing that to a router I had last year. But I Set up routers for family, and small businesses. I don't mind voiding the warranty on my personal equipment, but I don't want to be liable for that on a family members router and I most definitely will not do it to a customers router... That looks really bad IMHO(unless it is your own). Tomato is all the more I go when it comes to voiding warranty. A small business can afford 40-50$ more for a good router with external antenna. I just like to save them money when I can.

I didn't realize they were that short, but the antenna routers always seem to have better range. If it isn't factual, it implies it mentally, and I don't want a customer to complain I should have gotten one with an antenna. It is also nice for upgrading in the future.

The R7000s I have gotten, Flashed, and Installed, have never had an issue. I set them on a schedule to reboot every 3 days at 4:30am, Set up the Vlans and interface stuff, tweak the TX settings, and basically customize all the other settings to the ones I found work when using my first one, and they are Rock Solid. Before I set the scheduler, i had one run 60 days without a reboot, I even was running the TX for 2.4 way higher than stock. 0 problems! If you get a bad Ping one send it back for a replacement. I use AMX so i have free returns and free 2 day shipping at new-egg.

The AC87U is most definitely a no-go without a stable shibby release which is why I asked. The 868l never stood a chance because it has no external antenna. I would never suggest it nor will I. :/

The R7000s I have gotten, Flashed, and Installed, have never had an issue. I set them on a schedule to reboot every 3 days at 4:30am, Set up the Vlans and interface stuff, tweak the TX settings, and basically customize all the other settings to the ones I found work when using my first one, and they are Rock Solid. Before I set the scheduler, i had one run 60 days without a reboot, I even was running the TX for 2.4 way higher than stock. 0 problems! If you get a bad Ping one send it back for a replacement. I use AMX so i have free returns and free 2 day shipping at new-egg.

The AC87U is most definitely a no-go without a stable shibby release which is why I asked. The 868l never stood a chance because it has no external antenna. I would never suggest it nor will I. :/

Click to expand...

Hi Mr. CTT. If you have to go with a Tomato ARM then I would go with a RT-AC68U/R. Tomato is running on ARM because developers are lifting elements from the Asus GLP source release. The wifi drivers are from Asus and beings used on the Tomato R7000 and 868L too. There is a a high ping and drop out problem with Tomato, DD-WRT and the R7000. Netgear and FoxConn found this problem during development and fixed it with kernel patches. The Asus source code does not contain these specific changes so this problem is not fixed. Developer Kong on DD-WRT has identified these kernel changes but has not been able to get them from Netgear. The Tomato ARM version is still very much a beta with several features not working like QOS. I you want a full stable Tomato experience then I would go with the Asus RT-N66U/R. Very mature, everything works. The limit with the RT-N66U is the WAN speed with everything being done in software. Though testing I found the RT-N66U can pass about 175 megabits with most features turned off. With QOS turned on you will max out at 100 megabits. The RT-AC68U can do about 350 megabits but is more limited on features.

I will take that under consideration and make my choice in routers accordingly. Thank you for taking the time to go in depth and explain that to me. From what I have seen personally, the ping issue was a hit or miss thing.

The units I have are 5-6 months old or older. There has never been any indication during my many testing sessions, updates, and continued support of them after installation that has ever shown any problems related to the ping times or dropped/lost data. There have not been any lost connections to the router either. Everything has run very smoothly (knock on wood). I did know it was an issue, and I tested the units for a 1-2 months before they left my bench. I also keep it in mind and have remote access to them, monitor all of the devices connected to them, and randomly check up on them from time to time. I run a small business that is more for fun and to keep me learning and tinkering, so no one will ever be left hanging in a bad spot. If I get one that even a resembles the ping issues, I send it back for a replacement. I only work for small businesses with a small foot print so none of the units are tasked by any means. The current set of features that is built in is all I really need for any of the R7000 units I have put out there, so I don't really plan to pull them from their locations.

I will keep the R7000's temporary short comings in mind, however it is quite rare to see someone running faster than 100mb/s around here. 50mb/s (5up) runs a business 500$+ a month just for internet no other services included. This is not something I control either, but rather Time Warner Cable's price. So I don't see any of the dual core Wireless routers having a problem meeting this unless tasked by a significant amount of other things that I would never allow on one router. If I were to go beyond 90 megabits, I would use a special HP switch to handle everything and has fiber hook ups. I would run all tomato routers in repeater mode, because the particular HP switch I have in mind is significantly faster than a consumer router/switch and we have used it at OSU for years.

Hi Mr. CTT. If you have to go with a Tomato ARM then I would go with a RT-AC68U/R. Tomato is running on ARM because developers are lifting elements from the Asus GLP source release. The wifi drivers are from Asus and beings used on the Tomato R7000 and 868L too. There is a a high ping and drop out problem with Tomato, DD-WRT and the R7000. Netgear and FoxConn found this problem during development and fixed it with kernel patches. The Asus source code does not contain these specific changes so this problem is not fixed. Developer Kong on DD-WRT has identified these kernel changes but has not been able to get them from Netgear. The Tomato ARM version is still very much a beta with several features not working like QOS. I you want a full stable Tomato experience then I would go with the Asus RT-N66U/R. Very mature, everything works. The limit with the RT-N66U is the WAN speed with everything being done in software. Though testing I found the RT-N66U can pass about 175 megabits with most features turned off. With QOS turned on you will max out at 100 megabits. The RT-AC68U can do about 350 megabits but is more limited on features.

Click to expand...

Hello Hawkmat,

Thanks for the update on the ping droupout issue.
Does the DIR-868L have the issue as well?
(Since the units from ASUS, Netgear and D-Link have so many hardware similarities)

So far the only issues I've run into on the D-Link:
- Wrong port number mapping under "VLAN" page - Though correct on "Overview" page
- Forgot to clear NVRAM before initial configuration - didn't go well

Otherwise it seems rock solid - and VWLAN and VLANs work like a charm.
Haven't done extended ping test over WLAN. But will test and report back.

Thanks for the update on the ping droupout issue.
Does the DIR-868L have the issue as well?
(Since the units from ASUS, Netgear and D-Link have so many hardware similarities)

So far the only issues I've run into on the D-Link:
- Wrong port number mapping under "VLAN" page - Though correct on "Overview" page
- Forgot to clear NVRAM before initial configuration - didn't go well

Otherwise it seems rock solid - and VWLAN and VLANs work like a charm.
Haven't done extended ping test over WLAN. But will test and report back.

/Martin

Click to expand...

Hi Martin! I have a R7000 and RT-AC68U but not a DIR-868L so it would be difficult to speak on this hardware. From what what I understand is that Netgear has heavily modified the broadcom driver for the R7000. The RT-AC68U driver will work with the R7000 since it is basically the same hardware but it will not contain Netgear's changes or fixes. While the R7000, RT-AC68U and DIR-868L all contain the same major hardware (Broadcom CPU and Broadcom WIFI Chips) they do contain different parts. The NVRAM, Ram, and output amplifiers are all specific to each model. From what I understand Netgear/Foxconn discovered the ping drop and reboot problem during development. They were simply able to correct the problem with kernel patches and wifi driver modifications. The problem with Tomato is that the developers do not have access to these changes. I do not remember hearing complaints about high pings with the DIR-868L so you are likely ok. I use a R7000 as a access point with a special factory beta firmware and I get excellent results. My wifi ethernet bridges recieve a 10dB better signal and my AC wifi card card in my notebook transfers at up to 65MB per second. This is compared to Tomato or factory firmware on the R7000. This far better than any other combo I used and I hope Netgear will release this driver.

OT but is that the 1.0.45 Try Lan2 driver (or something close) that you're talking about on the Netgear? I tried that one but had lots of lags. I didn't do a full reset though so that may have been it.

Also, just read in the R8000 thread that kong has basically said screw it to Netgear R7000 and R8000 because of the kernel and driver problems.

I don't blame him if they stone wall him and don't supply the stuff he needs.

When I do flash my routers I have a really weird and/or secure way of doing it. My work bench is Battery backed up by a UPS and the ups filters also. I normally do a factory reset / nvram reset if its an open source one. Then i do a 30-30-30. Then I minimally log in so i can upgrade the firmware. the moment i see it loaded right i do the factory reset with nvram. Then I do a 30-30-30 when I has booted. Then Im done but that is my way of doing it. I also use a stop watch on my cell for the 30sec count. I also only use cables I made myself or Trip lite.

Un-related
The R6300 is the only brick i have gotten doing this, but I honestly think it was a firmware problem... I dont like the website I had to download it from :/ it seems kind of weird how it does a 0-100% count up, then it allows me to download it...

R7000's ping issue is not occurs on every device, that's strange.
I don't want to buy a R7000 and try it, I don't think I am lucky enough that I can void the ping problem.
I still hope that Shibby can finger out how to make SSH work on DIR-868L. Personally I do not need VPN, DNSCrypt and DNSSec is not a must. IPv6, DNSMASQ, SSH and USB are things what I need, better has JFFS2.

R7000's ping issue is not occurs on every device, that's strange.
I don't want to buy a R7000 and try it, I don't think I am lucky enough that I can void the ping problem.
I still hope that Shibby can finger out how to make SSH work on DIR-868L. Personally I do not need VPN, DNSCrypt and DNSSec is not a must. IPv6, DNSMASQ, SSH and USB are things what I need, better has JFFS2.

Click to expand...

It took about 7 reboots to get rid of my ping problem with Shibby Tomato 124 on an R7000. I had to reboot it again because I thought it was screwed up (was really my Linksys AC bridge screwed up) and it's now back to bad pings. I haven't taken the time to reboot it. Thinking of putting a Netgear firmware back on it and turning my RT-AC68U Asus into a Tomato unit, since it's supposedly more stable and no ping issues.

R7000's ping issue is not occurs on every device, that's strange.
I don't want to buy a R7000 and try it, I don't think I am lucky enough that I can void the ping problem.
I still hope that Shibby can finger out how to make SSH work on DIR-868L. Personally I do not need VPN, DNSCrypt and DNSSec is not a must. IPv6, DNSMASQ, SSH and USB are things what I need, better has JFFS2.

Click to expand...

Like I said before, I use my AMX so i have free returns and 2 day shipping. So it isn't a big deal to me. I charge way less than anyone around here to do the stuff I do, but I take longer so that is the catch I guess. Normally my customers are the people that have equipment and internet already, and are complaining about this and that. So it isn't too big a deal.

If you have amazon prime, and you get the ping issue on your unit, you could always return it for a refund, or a replacement(within 30 days). In my view, it is not a Tomato or DDWRT problem, it is a manufacturer problem. They should never have sold something that did not work properly, and they owe it to their customers to have built that patch into it in such a manner a change in firmware would not cause issues. So if I get one and sent it back because of the ping issue, I do not lose sleep over it. I just say connection issues, and amazon or newegg will not complain one bit about the return, that's what I pay 80$ a year extra for haha. Prime also has a 6 month trial too. But if this isn't something your comfortable with then I suggest you do it your way. I have been really lucky with the R7000s though. I have had 1 or 2 duds. But I don't know the specifics of what causes the Ping issue.

The issue is 100% software related if they fix it with a patch, so perhaps my settings get me around the issue when fully set up? I have no clue. I keep very few factory ones, I change just about everything when I set it up and go from top to bottom through every menu. I am also a big fan of static DHCP reservation. But yet again, I haven't researched the issue much beyond the signs and random reading.

OT but is that the 1.0.45 Try Lan2 driver (or something close) that you're talking about on the Netgear? I tried that one but had lots of lags. I didn't do a full reset though so that may have been it.

Also, just read in the R8000 thread that kong has basically said screw it to Netgear R7000 and R8000 because of the kernel and driver problems.

Click to expand...

Hi Engineer!
It's a variation of that Netgear beta driver but I'm only using it as a access point not a router. I have not experienced lags with over 20 connected wireless devices. I did do a full reset. I would like to say more but there are too many NDA's here to know what is safe to say. The patched problem is in all Broadcom ARM based routers and your safe from it as long as you use the factory firmware.

Nope. You can fix some minor hardware flaws with software patches too (for example by changing timings or disabling/emulating hardware features), so it's not that easy to say.

Click to expand...

Your right. I hadn't considered that they could have over utilized a piece of hardware or applied incorrect parameters. If this is the case, I change a significant amount of my advanced properties especially ones such as advanced wireless properties, routing table, and conntrack/netfilter. It is entirely possible I could have fixed one or more issues for the amount of devices that are on my network if it were to do with this or any others I changed. I will have to be cautious to make sure that if a significant number of additional devices are added, that the ping issue does not arise.

Do you have a windows laptop? You could have wireless AC on your windows laptop (or Linux) for about 10$ in less than 10 minutes. I ordered an Intel Wireless AC7260 for my laptop last year. It is simple to instal in most cases and cost me about 12$. I have yet to max out it's speed seeing 100 mbit/s over Wifi. It has a significant amount of features, so be sure to go to device manager and edit accordingly. I also have noticed i have SIGNIFICANTLY better signal using this than any other card I have ever used in my life. I took the gamble on ebay and it paid off 1000 times over.

Two notes(actually 3). Be sure you have antennae that are on your current card, 99% of the time they pop off and it is accessible. Get the drivers directly from intel's website and instal prior to installing card to be safe.

One other note is that when i purchased my AC7260, it had come out like 3 months prior to me purchasing it(I think). It was very buggy till recently forcing me to disable it and enable it at times because it did not play well with stand by / hibernate. So if you get the newest baddest one out, it may be buggy for a while. You need to keep updating your drivers manually, because windows update sure as hell will not do it for you. P.S. I have a Dell Precision M6400 mad in 2008 that I use this on so age does not matter. I love this thing its an amazing beat up laptop for like 200$ you can put 12GB of ram in and you can overclock it factory

It was set to 40Mhz by default (dual chain) and I changed it to 80Mhz, the maximum available.

Also, I noticed I could only choose 3 options for the channels. Auto, some high channel and some low channel. I would expect more channels to be available for choice.

I set HT channel above main frequency and tried both available frequencies. The low frequency gave 400Mbit/s link speed with 20MB/s throughput. The high frequency had much slower link speed under 100Mbit/s giving only a couple of MB/s.

I did set the channel width to 80Mhz, but in the overview or status it still said 40Mhz after applying and even rebooting the router.

As far as i am aware the 80Mhz still needs work. The 40 however should unlock 380mb/s. This is still a very very young firmware, so there probably needs to be some modifications. I can say that with the 5GHz, it ia 100% essential for me to use Frame Bursting, and the WLAN Auto with Noise Reduction. If i do not, my throughput suffers and i have inconsistent speeds. ( I also set my Country to Anguilla and ramp the TX to 400 for 5GHz)

I recently had trouble with my 2.4 (and a little with my 5.0Ghz) Wifi giving me crap (serously i could barely get 2omb/s for some reason for throughput... What I ended up doing was the above mentioned settings, however I did a NVRAM dump to ensure that I was tweaking the wireless settings properly. When I did that, I fount that there is a 3rd TX power command for some routers. The country settings were not taking properly (it was a mix of the one I selected and USA) and that my bandwidth limiter, although disabled in the GUI, was enabled and dropping my throughput significantly. After I optimized everything, my Ping cut in half(to my normal speed test server), and my throughput is higher than I have ever seen it. Granted my internet isn't as fast as yours. I pay for 50 mb/s and get 63 (highest i have seen so far). I don't have my NAS built yet to test internal speeds. :/

I prefer AI (Anguilla) for my country. The signal seems best, and it unlocks all channels should i want them.

sorry maybe it's not the right topic:
using a dlink dir-868l as an ap, on shibby 125, with the main router an asus RT-N16, on shibby 124
have the wireless on, on the main router
dhcp is off, on the dlink, wired connection between routers

I do observe that the 2.5 and 5GHz are decreasing in speed over time, is it because drivers? because wireless is on on the main router? should I use wireless ethernet bridge? Need wireless on the main router.

sorry maybe it's not the right topic:
using a dlink dir-868l as an ap, on shibby 125, with the main router an asus rt-n16, on shibby 124
have the wireless on, on the main router
dhcp is off, on the dlink, wired connection between routers

I do observe that the 2.5 and 5GHz are decreasing in speed over time, is it because drivers? because wireless is on on the main router? should I use wireless ethernet bridge? Need wireless on the main router.

Hi! I will be getting my DIR868L in a few days time, upgrading from Asus RT-N66U, also running on shibby's firmware (awesome router and firmware combo btw).

Can I know what you meant by "be careful when flashing from stock firmware, do some research", i tried to google, but cant seem to find any info on flashing from stock firmware to tomato, can you kindly enlighten me?

I have a working custom firmware for the DIR-868L with SSH and OpenVPN (prepared for Vyprvpn Router App). Please drop a message if you want to try it.
I had to clean a lot on NVRAM Settings like QoS and more. I also can provide a 'patch' for the sources.

I am on 1gbps fibre broadband, and when i used a direct connection to the fibre modem, i could get 960mbps/ 800mbps. The speed drops to 270mbps/260mbps once i connect to the router. All using wire cat6 cables.

I am on 1gbps fibre broadband, and when i used a direct connection to the fibre modem, i could get 960mbps/ 800mbps. The speed drops to 270mbps/260mbps once i connect to the router. All using wire cat6 cables.

hi guys, i have a 868L revision B this firmware should work on my router?
Also i tried without success to flash this .trx file i even tried the dd-wrt .bin files and i got error message trying to flash it.

Dear all. I'm sorry if this is a total noob question but is there a step-by-step guide to installing tomato on my DIR 868L?
I have followed some links and read some forum posts but it seems that the guides are not specific to this model router. And it would be a shame to brick my router...
I guess its not a simple as just going to the firmware update page and uploading it there??

I'm a bit stumped. I'm attempting to flash the latest 2.9-131 firmware, and it seems like it takes it fine, except when it's time for the router to configure itself. The top power light changes from orange to green like it's supposed to, but the bottom "internet" light never even turns on. Tried flashing three times now, factory restoring the system and flashing in system recovery each time (from Firefox). My hardware is NA, revision A. I flashed back to stock for now, which it gladly accepts. Does it have to do with the file type being a trx vs a bin? Not really sure what to try at this point.

Got the thing working finally. Problem was I had to restart my modem and then connect it to the router once it fully booted. I would have just edited my above post, but I was wondering what the threshold was for a "safe" maximum transmit power level was for the 868l. I have it set to 84mW right now, but would potentially like to go higher than that.

Edit: Also having a little trouble getting my printer to print. Print server is running, but when I go to add the printer as an IP printer (just using the router's IP?) it tells me that it cannot find the printer.

If this router has 128MB of flash, then why is the Tomato image only 10mb? Is it because it only has 32kb NVRAM and wouldn't be able to store the config for the extra "AIO" features? If this is the case, that makes sense, I was just wondering.

Seems silly that D-link didn't think of this. Producing a router with only 32KB NVRAM nowadays is absurd. Did it cost them too much to add an 32K more NVRAM or something?

I was thinking of getting this router because it's on a good sale this week where I live, but not if it only has 32K of NVRAM! (I'd need to store SSH keys too, including about 40K+ of NVRAM settings).

I am on 1gbps fibre broadband, and when i used a direct connection to the fibre modem, i could get 960mbps/ 800mbps. The speed drops to 270mbps/260mbps once i connect to the router. All using wire cat6 cables.

I have installed this firmware on my dir-868l. The link speed was 400Mbit consistently. On the original firmware the link speed is 866Mbit. Both using an Intel ac card on 5Ghz.

Actual throughout on stock firmware is about 50MB/s. When using this tomato build it doesn't get over 20MB/s. After restoring dlink firmware throughout is back to normal.

AC is not a choice in the drop down, I think it was only auto and N-only, judging by the link speed of 400Mbit it was using AC mode even though the drop down menu said N only.

Click to expand...

I installed Advanced Tomato last night and have a similar situation - single stream connections have dropped from 433Mbit to 200Mbit, and iperf measured speeds have halved also. Any advice on getting AC going properly would be much appreciated.

Aside from that issue, fantastic work on the firmware - big improvement on stock.

I installed Advanced Tomato last night and have a similar situation - single stream connections have dropped from 433Mbit to 200Mbit, and iperf measured speeds have halved also. Any advice on getting AC going properly would be much appreciated.

Aside from that issue, fantastic work on the firmware - big improvement on stock.

Click to expand...

Updating on my post, I seem to have solved this - now get single stream connections listed at "AC" rates. I think the solution was shifting the channel - I had it on the highest available channel with the extension channel set as upper - moving to a lower channel has increased the link speed.