DubyaHater:These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

I think it has more to do with being angry about how this poor guy was completely railroaded by the media and the freaking President of the United States and damn near lynched by popular demand. In reality, he's likely twice the douche bag his enemies paint him as, but he wasn't a murderer or even a manslaughter-er, and he'll go down in history as the text book example of what happens when the media and the left wing establishment decide they don't like you.

Not that anyone asked, but this was the last straw that made be write off this president for good after vigorously defending him for 5 years.

Zimmerman will probably not die of old age. He may have escaped justice in this case but with his history of violence and stupidity eventually he will pick a fight with somebody who will take him down first. I predict it will happen before he turns 40.

TheEdibleSnuggie:AngryDragon: DubyaHater: These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

Sort of like the racists trying to literally make a federal case out of something that the police, the FBI, and a jury all agreed didn't happen? I'm seeing very little respect for the rule of law on their side.

Hence- why Zimmerman would need a gun. He, his wife, his family, his wife's family? They're all potential targets because out an outraged contingent who finds the only way justice can be served is through vengence. The man should be allowed to protect himself accordingly.

He should have thought about that before he decided to play cop, follow this kid, ignore the request by the call center, get out of his car, approach this kid and initiate an altercation. When I see suspicious behavior from my car, I make the intelligent decision and let the cops handle it.

AngryDragon:DubyaHater: These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

Sort of like the racists trying to literally make a federal case out of something that the police, the FBI, and a jury all agreed didn't happen? I'm seeing very little respect for the rule of law on their side.

Hence- why Zimmerman would need a gun. He, his wife, his family, his wife's family? They're all potential targets because out an outraged contingent who finds the only way justice can be served is through vengence. The man should be allowed to protect himself accordingly.

ikanreed:AngryDragon: ikanreed: Uh huh. Sure. Confronting invaders with weapons is correlated with higher occupant injury rates and lower property loss rates in home invasions. So you gambled with your family and got lucky. Congratulations.

I hope you never have to be in that situation at 5:00 AM with 3 armed men in your house protected only with your statistical correlation and a phone connecting you to the police.

Scratch that. I hope you do. Your opinion will change rapidly, if you survive.

I'm sorry you have an emotional response, and I have a data-driven response. I know what I prefer in the cold hard light of day.

I prefer to think of it as an experiential response vs your theoretical one. Statistically you are unlikely to be in that situation. Denying others the right to choose for themselves is unjust in my opinion.

hardinparamedic:Wangiss: So do you think that all someone has to do is contribute to an outcome and they deserve to be battered?Or do you think that everyone should be willing to take a pounding, trusting their assailant to stop before killing?

Neither. I think when you escalate the situation from a point where you were able to flee, not in your own private dwelling, and where no one's life was in immediate danger - to the point where you have to use lethal force to defend yourself, you should not have civil protection and that the events leading up to this should be taken into account.

The fact that you pick a fight with someone doesn't mean you should have to get beaten to death, but it doesn't resolve you of the fact that you initiated the contact in the first place.

ikanreed:Wangiss: ikanreed: shiat like this is why we know that guns-rights people are just have a secret dream of killing minorities without repercussions.

You know their real hearts, even if they don't. Everything you read reinforces your ideology because it's the truth.

No, it's because guns aren't a fundamental right, have nothing to do with being human...

Actually, I'm going to say that you're right about this: gun rights, in particular, are not a fundamental human right. However, they emerge logically, inevitably, and undeniably from the application of two fundamental human rights to one another (self-defense and equal protection of the laws) in the current social/technological climate. You might call them an "emergent human rights" for that reason, but that makes them no less inalienable or important for any civilized society.

...and everything to do with adolescent power fantasies.

We get it. You're scared. But fear has no place in a discussion of rights.

Real rights protect your right to be your own person.

Which can, in some very dark and sad circumstances, include killing someone who is trying to violate them.

ikanreed:DubyaHater: TheEdibleSnuggie: DubyaHater: TheEdibleSnuggie: AngryDragon: DubyaHater: These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

Sort of like the racists trying to literally make a federal case out of something that the police, the FBI, and a jury all agreed didn't happen? I'm seeing very little respect for the rule of law on their side.

Hence- why Zimmerman would need a gun. He, his wife, his family, his wife's family? They're all potential targets because out an outraged contingent who finds the only way justice can be served is through vengence. The man should be allowed to protect himself accordingly.

He should have thought about that before he decided to play cop, follow this kid, ignore the request by the call center, get out of his car, approach this kid and initiate an altercation. When I see suspicious behavior from my car, I make the intelligent decision and let the cops handle it.

That's kind of water over the dam, don't you think?

And that still doesn't justify the death threats against Zimmerman's family who's only guilt- is by association. But don't let that stop you from joining the lynch-mob, however.

I'm not joining any lynch mob. This is human nature however. When you take the law into your own hands, you risk the repercussions of violence against you and your family. I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying it's wrong. It is reality however. If Zimmerman was too stupid to realize that, he shouldn't have owned a firearm in the first place. He certainly shouldn't own one now.

Regardless of the assertions of "self defense", this is one clear case that if there were one specific less legal gun in the country there would be one less corpse.

Because M was just going to stop banging Z's head against the pavement out of the kindness of his soul? He didn't stop once he had a chance to run away; he didn't stop once he had the upper hand. What makes you 100% sure M wasn't going to finish Z off? If Z had few fewer constitution points, he'd have died from what he'd sustained already. Lethal force is lethal.

Look up 'providing material support to a terrorist organization'. And 'conspiracy'. So no, just sending someone money is not fine unless you fully disclaim knowledge of what the money will be used for. And even then it can backfire in terrorist cases.

It isn't a conspiracy unless he announced his intent to try to get a gun and kill someone. Getting sent money for an alarm, or gun, for self defense purposes when he still legally has a permit to posess and carry a handgun does not make someone liable just because they sent him money. Reread what is in bold a few times. Then read it again. It doesn't matter if you throw around words like terrorosm and all that, because that has nothing to do with this. I can see you're having a litle trouble with logic though :)

If he used his own money to buy a new gun, would the entire justice department be liable since they didn't take away his legal permit to own one? after all, by your logic they are just enabling him, aren't they?

It's the fact that they're specifically arming someone they know to have killed an innocent person. Understanding that sometimes making tough choices in dangerous situations is protected by law is different that actively encouraging a person to kill again. Zimmerman was a tough case, Zimmerman's active "supporters" are universally bad human beings.

According to the jury, he killed his attacker in self defense. And I'm not a Zimmerman "supporter", just a logical person.

We know why he did it. The supporters are the douchebags who are super enthusiastic about more guns and more killing of black people. You can go back through all the threads on this on fark. I've never been a "railroad zimmerman" person. But the active supporters are KKK wannabes. There's a line between "shiat that's tough; Zimmerman made a series of poor choices none of which were illegal or strictly immoral" and "fark ...

Anyone banging my head against the pavement has it coming. Prior to lethal force, though: yeah, a fist-fight you can run away from isn't grounds for a shooting.

Nothing unexpected. The next thing he should do is make some appearances at gun shows. Maybe do some speaking engagements. And if he hasn't already started negotiating his book deal yet, he'd better get on that.

The money train is waiting, but it won't wait forever. The time to start cashing in is now.

DubyaHater:TheEdibleSnuggie: AngryDragon: DubyaHater: These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

Sort of like the racists trying to literally make a federal case out of something that the police, the FBI, and a jury all agreed didn't happen? I'm seeing very little respect for the rule of law on their side.

Hence- why Zimmerman would need a gun. He, his wife, his family, his wife's family? They're all potential targets because out an outraged contingent who finds the only way justice can be served is through vengence. The man should be allowed to protect himself accordingly.

He should have thought about that before he decided to play cop, follow this kid, ignore the request by the call center, get out of his car, approach this kid and initiate an altercation. When I see suspicious behavior from my car, I make the intelligent decision and let the cops handle it.

That's kind of water over the dam, don't you think?

And that still doesn't justify the death threats against Zimmerman's family who's only guilt- is by association. But don't let that stop you from joining the lynch-mob, however.

Lord Apathy:Carn: Can we be done with Zimmerman? I'm damn tired of hearing about him. Let's talk about good beers for summer. I just bought a Widmer sampler and I like their Rotator IPA and Alchemy Ale.

I tried a local brew, I think, called Naked Pig. I found it to be a little bitter but at least it was drinkable.

Sorry. I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome Angry Orchard Crisp Apple is.

Wangiss:ikanreed: shiat like this is why we know that guns-rights people are just have a secret dream of killing minorities without repercussions.

You know their real hearts, even if they don't. Everything you read reinforces your ideology because it's the truth.

No, it's because guns aren't a fundamental right, have nothing to do with being human, and everything to do with adolescent power fantasies. Real rights protect your right to be your own person. Mythological rights help you kill people.

Wangiss:How dare we glorify your right to self-defense! It's a bad thing!

I think I found the problem in your statement. You should be glorifying avoiding the need to use your right to self-defense.

The fact that when you exercise that right, at least one person ends up dead, and two lives end up destroyed should give you pause in your zealousness. There's a difference in being PREPARED to defend yourself, and in going out and actively seeking out situations which give you justification to use it.

DubyaHater:These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

Magnanimous_J:DubyaHater: These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

I think it has more to do with being angry about how this poor guy was completely railroaded by the media and the freaking President of the United States and damn near lynched by popular demand. In reality, he's likely twice the douche bag his enemies paint him as, but he wasn't a murderer or even a manslaughter-er, and he'll go down in history as the text book example of what happens when the media and the left wing establishment decide they don't like you.

Not that anyone asked, but this was the last straw that made be write off this president for good after vigorously defending him for 5 years.

I noticed a lot of people were trying to rub one out until they found out he wasn't white or racist. Then they had to figure out how to make him white and racist so they could finish.

DubyaHater:These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

Sort of like the racists trying to literally make a federal case out of something that the police, the FBI, and a jury all agreed didn't happen? I'm seeing very little respect for the rule of law on their side.

This is a violation of Zimmerman's rights, but there is a bona fide need for it: the weapon is evidence in an ongoing federal investigation. As long as that investigation continues and the feds are practicing due diligence with respect to it, it is fair for them to keep it. (The legitimacy of the investigation, given his acquittal, is another issue, but I believe that it's currently out of scope.)

But the man does need protection, no doubt about it. If some group wants to use its own money to provide that, let them.

These gun nuts must be rubbing one out daily on the thought of shooting someone and getting away with it. This must be the all-time fantasy. Oh, and thanks for sending George Zimmerman money and glorifying this act. Glad these people have no problem sleeping at night.

TerminalEchoes:Yet it still makes sense. Al Sharpton, like this group, are just inflaming the situation.

What situation? A jury found him not guilty. Whatever you THINK happened, they had the chance to convict and did not see sufficient evidence to convict. Any further "situation" that comes out of this is solely because people are pissed off and emotionally hyped up because of events they *believe* happened, not that were *proven*. Otherwise, if what they had *believed* to be true was supported by the evidence, Zim would've been convicted.

People do bad shiat, and when it can't be proven, they get to walk. It's the same protection that keeps wrongfully accused people of being convicted of a crime, and the specific reason for our legal system working the way it does. Unless you can PROVE a crime, you're not convicted. just believing it to be true doesn't make it so.