It is just harder for me to come across them. I don't constantly check auctions for new characters we haven't seen yet, only a few times a week, so we will only discover them if they have an auction up while I am checking.

I stopped tanking LFR simply because of gear. I only bothered before to catch up in certain slots or for the legendary quest while my guild was still working on normal's.

Now, im allready at 550ilvl, and all of my gear from TOT was allready upgraded. the LFR loot is just not enough of an upgrade for me to want run SoO an extra time while dealing with some really horrible people at the same time. I could use the valor (i happened to get a glut of gear the last 2 weeks, and haven't upgraded it all yet), but the valor reward amounts simply are not enough for me to bother with the time investment over h scenarios or daily heroic which i can pretty much carry any amount of bad in and be done in about 10 mins.

Flex can fill in the slots better than LFR, can be run with a small group of players who are organized and is more engaging. My guild is also 7/14 normal now, further reducing the amount of slots LFR would benefit us compared to gear we are getting on raid nights.

TLDR: the reward structure is bad for those who arnt strictly raiding LFR

The thing is... Blizzard keeps trying to force people to go against their actual wills. That is something that takes years of practice. There are plenty of people that play MMORPGs simply because they are never ending video games. These people really do not desire to be social at all, and Blizzard keeps wanting them to be more social. The people that want to be more social are already in guilds and are already in raiding guilds if that is what they desire to do. There is definitely two separate groups of gamers in WoW. Those that do not desire to have social ties are not suddenly going to get them.

Blizzard feels that these people are more likely to leave the game because they lack these social ties. That is far from the truth. The truth is that these people are more likely to leave the game because Blizzard continuously treats them like second class citizens, and getting a piece of gear with "Raid Finder" attached simply because this group does not want to form social connections (more like social ass kissing) that is needed in order to get "Heroic" gear is simply something that this group simply does not want to do.

@Retrimootion Hitting enrage timers in LFR is nearly always a lack of understanding the mechanics rather than just low DPS.

It's like GC has never even actually tried LFR.
In one SoO LFR, there was this Hunter doing 18K... and after every wipe where Nazgrim hit the Enrage mark, he would proceed to order around and tell people how the fight goes. He wasn't wrong, which indicates that this was his alt and he had done the fight properly before... which means it IS just low DPS or not knowing how to play that alt class, rather than not understanding the raid mechanics. Or simply not giving a hoot, a lot of people just lazily coast on through LFR to be carried, which GC should also actually acknowledge and address.

I also like Pacster's solution for tanks who bail on LFR: "How about some "can't join another flex or lfr until group finished and 30 minutes penalty on top of that"? That would make them think twice."

Originally Posted by Daez

The thing is... Blizzard keeps trying to force people to go against their actual wills. That is something that takes years of practice. There are plenty of people that play MMORPGs simply because they are never ending video games. These people really do not desire to be social at all, and Blizzard keeps wanting them to be more social. The people that want to be more social are already in guilds and are already in raiding guilds if that is what they desire to do. There is definitely two separate groups of gamers in WoW. Those that do not desire to have social ties are not suddenly going to get them.

Blizzard feels that these people are more likely to leave the game because they lack these social ties. That is far from the truth. The truth is that these people are more likely to leave the game because Blizzard continuously treats them like second class citizens, and getting a piece of gear with "Raid Finder" attached simply because this group does not want to form social connections (more like social ass kissing) that is needed in order to get "Heroic" gear is simply something that this group simply does not want to do.

What makes you think its a decline of raiders? In my opion its just a matter of the number of ppl over gearing things. I have friends that raid msv because they simply dont have the raiding skill to do current stuff. I have many friends that went back and did the old raids they never did once they over geared it. I dont think its because of deliclining raiding. I think as time goes by more people have time to go back and do the older stuff.

Originally Posted by Taiknee

That's really interesting to see that steady decline in raiders. I wonder if they quit, are leveling alts, or are focusing more on PvP.

65-75% participation in Vaults - Terrace seems really good to me, especially when you consider that some of those accounts in the sample probably don't even have a max level character. I know a lot of people talk shit about players that only do LFR but it seems like it really accomplished it's goal of letting more players than ever before experience the content.

I guess LFR is working as intended without the vast majority of WoW players using it to "see the content". Of course this is akin to spraying some graffiti on a brick wall and telling people its the Mona Lisa.

I would like to ask a following armory query:
The percentage of the different tank (can be done with heal or dps in another query) specs who have gold medal in proving grounds. It would show the average percentage of the tank classes. And i would like another one, what is done only to that ppl who have already gold proving grounds - the percentage of completion of the endless wave achievement. It would show if how much % of druids\DK\warrior\monk can get endless waves achievement from the guys who have already gold (so using proving grounds). I wish to know if there is any class who statistically better in the endless wave than the others.

The thing behind is, i got gold but cant improve in the endless, and i am curious its cos i am noob or its cos my class is not optimal. Plus would be nice to see the real tank (heal, dps) percentage to see which is the popular classes.

I would like to ask a following armory query:
The percentage of the different tank (can be done with heal or dps in another query) specs who have gold medal in proving grounds. It would show the average percentage of the tank classes. And i would like another one, what is done only to that ppl who have already gold proving grounds - the percentage of completion of the endless wave achievement. It would show if how much % of druids\DK\warrior\monk can get endless waves achievement from the guys who have already gold (so using proving grounds). I wish to know if there is any class who statistically better in the endless wave than the others.

The thing behind is, i got gold but cant improve in the endless, and i am curious its cos i am noob or its cos my class is not optimal. Plus would be nice to see the real tank (heal, dps) percentage to see which is the popular classes.

We can't do anything with gold, as the achievement shows up for every character. Endless is possible though.