I pretty much agree with everything outlined in the Thread "Building a league of Irish Patriots",that the nation should have a stringent immigration policy, patriotically minded..etc

Yet I feel these radical(but much required) ideas are but meaningless words unless we forge a robust state which has the solid foundations to bring in sweeping changes.......

If we harbour any hopes of implementing these policies we are going to have to ask some serious questions about the inept democratic structure that we are inflicted with.....

.....how do we handle democratic reform...?

The current system for me is but a grotesque charade that succeeds only
in breeding disenchantment & apathy among the population.

I sense a general feeling of gloom descending among the population.

How do we address this blight...?

Can we work broadly within the current system or dare we propose something more radical?

I have not yet quite clarified my ideas on but I've outlined a few principles which should stimulate debate...

I believe the status of political party's should be downgraded & the views of the individual deputy should be emphasised.

Let's do away with these whips & let the deputies vote on the basis of their conscience & not on the narrow political interests as dictated by the party bosses.

All deputies should be remunerated generously on the strict understanding that they must divest themselves of all outside financial interests. Every measure to establish impartiality & weed out the plague of corruption should be implemented.

These cases which have plagued Irish national life should be properly fast tracked.....

It is truly scandalous that millions tax payers money should be squandered in establishing the precise degree of guilt & then the scoundrel in question (invariably a former buddy of Bertie's ) should be let of with an oddly lenient sentence.

Merely confine oneself to establishing that an instance of corruption has occurred and be done with the scoundrel. Finished. Wading through every obscure detail interminably for months & months, the whole debacle of these tribunal's becomes an utterly futile folly. This delights only the legal men who are kept quite delighted at the endless subsidises they recieve.

Lets be done with this wasteful practice.

Rigorous sanctions should be applied against any instances of corruption & this crime should be put on a level that is only a shade below treason as crime against the state......

....whether the criminal in question is part of the establishment or not!

For this to be viable it would probably need an elected head of state with broad discretionary powers. He should have the ability to appoint anyone to cabinet positions based on merit irrespective of whether he's a poltician or not….always observing the maxim "the right man for the right job."

Of course the success of such a system, would inevitably make western politicians very uncomfortable indeed. These people who rely on a rigorous party structure as the very cornerstone of their power would probably waste no time in condemning any innovative attempts too restore democracy to the people.

Although I could well imagine any such movement as I've outlined above would wind up sharing their lot with Austria's Freedom Party who from what I could see only advocated a new approach to democracy & the whole mass of the political establishment rose up in revolt to these ideas with chorus of pious condemnation with cries of "Fascists! Now everybody associates The Freedom Party with Fascism despite the fact while briefly examining their manifesto I could find no trace of Fascist or authoritarian tendencies save that it emphasises the importance of the national community & the restoration of real democracy to the people.......

Above all though, a leader must be the best man & enjoy the absolute support of the people, directly elected by the people....Lets be done with having these idiots as leaders who are inflicted upon us by default through some dubious party arrangement or those who are there because they're the least inept from a circle of mediocrities & failures....

All very radical I know, but I know this: Changes are certainly needed......

Yet I feel these radical(but much required) ideas are but meaningless words unless we forge a robust state which has the solid foundations to bring in sweeping changes.......

That may be true, but for any change to come about, power is first needed, at this stage even a start(The manifesto does not have to be written in stone) would put us 100% further than where we are now.

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If we harbour any hopes of implementing these policies we are going to have to ask some serious questions about the inept democratic structure that we are inflicted with.....

.....how do we handle democratic reform...?

Define "democratic reform"?

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The current system for me is but a grotesque charade that succeeds only
in breeding disenchantment & apathy among the population.

I sense a general feeling of gloom descending among the population.

The current system might work, if voting became mandatory, what is the average turnout in a general election 20-40%?
Whatever it is, It's shamefull, people wheel out the same old tired excuses, "why bother voting, it won't change anything".

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How do we address this blight...?

By using the framework suggested here, to start the ball rolling

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Can we work broadly within the current system or dare we propose something more radical?

To begin with, It would have to be a 'mixture' of both, the current system is all there is for now.

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I believe the status of political party's should be downgraded & the views of the individual deputy should be emphasised.

That would never work, 'Individualism' has no place in a 'democratic' country(I know that sounds wrong, but democracy is a funny business), it would create more problems than it would solve.

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Let's do away with these whips & let the deputies vote on the basis of their conscience & not on the narrow political interests as dictated by the party bosses.

That is a better option than the above.

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All deputies should be remunerated generously on the strict understanding that they must divest themselves of all outside financial interests. Every measure to establish impartiality & weed out the plague of corruption should be implemented.

Agreed, The very nature of our system, and the corporate interests that are served by it, are without a doubt the biggest problem facing Ireland today.
Money talks and b.s walks.

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These cases which have plagued Irish national life should be properly fast tracked.....

It is truly scandalous that millions tax payers money should be squandered in establishing the precise degree of guilt & then the scoundrel in question (invariably a former buddy of Bertie's ) should be let of with an oddly lenient sentence.

Merely confine oneself to establishing that an instance of corruption has occurred and be done with the scoundrel. Finished. Wading through every obscure detail interminably for months & months, the whole debacle of these tribunal's becomes an utterly futile folly. This delights only the legal men who are kept quite delighted at the endless subsidises they recieve.

Lets be done with this wasteful practice.

Agreed, The whole process is the biggest scandal of all.

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For this to be viable it would probably need an elected head of state with broad discretionary powers. He should have the ability to appoint anyone to cabinet positions based on merit irrespective of whether he's a poltician or not….always observing the maxim "the right man for the right job."

That is bordering on a Dictatorship, and although I am not against the notion in theory, I think the population would have a hard time accepting such 'absolute power'

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Of course the success of such a system, would inevitably make western politicians very uncomfortable indeed. These people who rely on a rigorous party structure as the very cornerstone of their power would probably waste no time in condemning any innovative attempts too restore democracy to the people.

It would make the E.U uncomfortable, and that is what succesive Irish Governments have feared most, The 'wrath of Brussells'

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Although I could well imagine any such movement as I've outlined above would wind up sharing their lot with Austria's Freedom Party who from what I could see only advocated a new approach to democracy & the whole mass of the political establishment rose up in revolt to these ideas with chorus of pious condemnation with cries of "Fascists! Now everybody associates The Freedom Party with Fascism despite the fact while briefly examining their manifesto I could find no trace of Fascist or authoritarian tendencies save that it emphasises the importance of the national community & the restoration of real democracy to the people.......

Above all though, a leader must be the best man & enjoy the absolute support of the people, directly elected by the people....Lets be done with having these idiots as leaders who are inflicted upon us by default through some dubious party arrangement or those who are there because they're the least inept from a circle of mediocrities & failures....

All very radical I know, but I know this: Changes are certainly needed......

I tend to agree with the majority of your post, but the radicalism of such suggestions might be a bit too much at this stage for the average voter.

If not I am sure people in BNP would join to help you out if you made registration fee £5 or something. BNP has over 10,000 members and if a request was put out to help Ireland you would get 300 easy. Count me in!!

The current system might work, if voting became mandatory, what is the average turnout in a general election 20-40%?
Whatever it is, It's shamefull, people wheel out the same old tired excuses, "why bother voting, it won't change anything".

Well lets take it from a different perspective...I believe the burden is on the state to engage the people.
This is accomplished by simplifying the structure of government & a possessing zero tolerance policy on government.
People are wary of complication & suspicious of obscurity, the natural result of complication....

Once the people understand more of the apparatus of government then & ensure the deputies reflect the views of the people they'll soon come back to the ballot box.

For the state to compel the people to vote isn't the way to go as I look upon this as a sign not as an expression of apathy but a very
clear statement of discontent....

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Define "democratic reform"?

I mean we should make democracy really synonymous with the people on not just go through with the "pretence" of democracy

The people would have the opportunity to elect a head of state every 5 years.

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That would never work, 'Individualism' has no place in a 'democratic' country(I know that sounds wrong, but democracy is a funny business), it would create more problems than it would solve.

I agree too that individualism playing a decisive role in government would be disastrous.

But I believe that a certain degree of individualism can be tolerated given that it is properly regulated in the appropriate forum of debate......

My little chamber is just such a forum with its primarily consultative character deputies would be invited to make
realistic judgements without reference to the PC party line, debate would be encouraged & we could
even indulge in some chaotic arguments without the risk of paralysing the executive organs of state.

Freed from the party whip it would become a true debating forum unencumbered by the narrow
interests of party loyalty.

Regularily it would have the power to pronounce thier verdict by announcing a national declaration
in favour or disfavour of the head of state's particular policy. If we succeed in introducing an assembly composed of
deputies that are truly honest represntatives of the people, the national declaration would quite clearly demonstrate the disapproval
of the people.

This chamber should however have the sole but vital legislative facility -in exceptional circumstances- based on a majority consensus
of its deputies(if it exceeds a certain agreed threshold) to relieve e a wayward head of state should he prove unfit for the role, corrupt
or he loses the confidence of the people.......

In other words the appalling spectacle of Tony Blair making backdoor party arrangements in the vote
on the war on Iraq to swing the vote in his favour would not be replicated. Under my model he would be relieved
from his office & then we'd place him under house arrest alá Pinochet......

Ultimeatly the ideal government should have based on a slim bureacracy, strong patriotic leadership, real democracy &
above all transparent & simple process of government.........

We'll permit the legal men to join on condition they moderate thier zealous enthusiasm for technicalities.

Its curious however to observe that in a era where society that has undertaken dramatic
explosions of change within the past 120 years (horse drawn carraiges to moon landings..etc)
that our venerable institutions of state remained resolutely immune to any real change whatsoever.

They have gradually become obsolete, archaic & increasingly irrelevant.

Sure they won't shut up with the lofty language of reform but they've failed completely to introduce
anything more than the most cosemetic of changes............

They are over burdened with bureaucracy & are hopelessly thier complicated, replete with endless
procedures, stages, & have a distinct mania of inflicting numerous petty technicalities to all & sundry.

All neccesary I must add to give our bloated bureaucracy something to do.

I defy any political pundit (who isn't slightly unbalanced) to succeed in explaining to me in simple terms
the intricate mechanisations of the political process. A life time of
observance perhaps & Buddhist mediatation of this question would be required.

This is no doubt a shrewd calculation on behalf of the political establishment because
they know quite well the more bafflingly complicated things are, the more disinterested people
become the less likely the uncomfortable glare of scrutiny can illuminate thier more sensitive follies.....

At least we've got the consoliation of some company.....

How is it conceivable, that in America (who sings the benefits of democracy to the high heavens)
that in the 2000 elections a man should acceded to the presidency despite enjoying the the second
highest number of votes in that election?

Pure madness!

The fruits of my deep deliberation on the French system of government results in only a headache!

I'm convinced that the entire existence of the European Parliament owes itself to a broad European
consensus to farm out each nation's excess of political rubbish to keep them occupied & thus
prevent them from plotting or making blatantly obvious what disasters they really are.......

They could then be free to indulge in their craze of inflicting their silly little directives
on the people of Europe. Although I foresee this developing in a more sinister fashion in the
future........

Even poor Mussolini, with all the fervour of a revolutionary, could do nothing with his band of reactionaries......

Hitler was so intolerable to his reactionaries they had to resort to murder.....!
The fiasco that ensued was ample proof how ill suited radical action are to these gentlemen.

Lets, however preserve our sympathies for the English. Once they had a balanced streamlined
efficient civil service and with these men they succeeded in administering a world wide empire with the
number of people that today occupies one department.....

The British establishment have proven astonishingly effective in jealously defending thier own interests in
the face of successive attempts of the various governments for reform.....

Tony Blair successfully defied the indignation & condemnation of a large portion of the British public
who took to the streets to make clear thier rage, not making the least impression on Scaldie's determination
to march headlong into the Iraqi fiasco.

Yet Blair meet his match in the venerable peers who waged a protracted war of
attrition with technicalities & legalisms constantly obstructing every botched attempt at his reform.....

Result the House of Lords survives & TB is left bewildered..........

No doubt a talent honed from many years of evasion since the days of the Parliament Act........

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but the radicalism of such suggestions might be a bit too much at this stage for the average voter.

That does seem to be the bottom line doesn't it?

Despite having the genuine & honest intention to rejuvenate the political process with an innovative approach to democracy the detractors
would waste no time in condemning these idea with cries of "fascism"! The establishment have no illusions that this represent
kicking the ladder of power from under thier feet.

Yet you must understand my dream to clear that cowardly crew out & start afresh with a clean sheet of paper.........

Excellent responses,thanks for getting this stickied INS, all thats needed is a PO Box, and a pc to start this, no one can stop it. We could also notify the media if we wanted to get publicity.
Members can also join under pseudonyms.

I think its important to realise its no 1 purpose is to keep Ireland white, and keep at as an umbrella group for all individuals who agree with this. Without falling out over small policy details.

Major policy decisons should be made on a members vote system, and branches should be autonomous to avoid state infiltration, at the top.

It could appeal to all Irish patriots, and it should be with the times, to appeal to the youth. It would NOT be a white power outfit. It could also appeal to Republicans pished off with Sinn Feins leftist agenda.

In the inner cities (when nos allow) it could campaign against drugs as well etc, and build community links on estates. [EDIT]Building a new Irish nationalist movement.

Just some throughts, the potential is unlimited. But at this stage until numbers are built up it should remain a League, as it wont have the numbers as yet to be a political party.And Of course it will support a 32 county united Ireland.

Last edited by John Law; 01-05-2005 at 09:05 PM.
Reason: Erring on the side of caution. Big Brother is always watching!

May I suggest again that this movement should be anti-Masonic, at least in some way protective of Ireland's Catholic traditions, and stand for complete withdrawal from the European Union. Nothing less will do.

Oh, and I wouldn't suggest going to the BNP for help and back-up. You might as well sell your souls to Satan.