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So what are the options to stop mass void rays again? It's pretty scary when I see it on 4 vs 4. Vikings and marines are good options for Terran... but what can a Zerg to vs mass VR? Hydras doesn't have the same mobility, and Corruptors can't beat them anymore... and you can't fungal growth them anymore either.

What about Protoss's options? After you hit a critical mass blink stalkers just doesn't do the job anymore. Storm won't do it either when people who mass VR got armor upgrade. Phoenix does crap and Carriers won't work...

Against 40+ void rays you will not win with any combination of zerg units post-patch. For now you can obliterate them with fungal and possibly some hydras, of course.

Protoss are almost as badly hosed--the archon toilet bowl will work, and if he's very sloppy you might get some mileage out of psi storm, but generally you're doomed vs. that many void rays.

Terran has a few more options--Thors will work, and without VR speed (which was removed in the patch) microed vikings will probably do as well. You need a lot of Thors, though--you'll get one volley before they're vaporized. HSM might be worth a shot, and if you're truly desperate (or inControl) you can try to get lucky with a nuke.

Blink stalkers counter mass VRs perfectly well, I've done it many times. The only way you can lose is if they're way ahead on upgrades or if they're all clumped up and you're marching in and getting destroyed line by line; really gotta blink under them.

I would say combinations of units. Hydras and corruptors together for zerg, and phoenixes with stalkers for protoss. If the guy is bringing out mass numbers of void rays, you should be able to get out a mixed army to deal with them.

Blink stalkers counter mass VRs perfectly well, I've done it many times. The only way you can lose is if they're way ahead on upgrades or if they're all clumped up and you're marching in and getting destroyed line by line; really gotta blink under them.

Even with a perfect blink, you'll still lose against mass VRs. One VR is close to even with two stalkers (and with larger numbers the stalkers start to overkill, favoring VRs). With 40-50 VRs you can kill 80-100 stalkers in a straight-up fight, which represents an unrealistic food total in stalkers, anyway. Moreover, VRs gain more from upgrades than stalkers do.

I've seen it a couple times in FFAs (esp. during that Funday Monday challenge when I couldn't make any sort of attack against the guy amassing VRs until I hunted down the other fool's last hidden hatchery). True mass VRs (not 1v1 mass VRs, which is maybe 8 or so) is one of the most powerful (and expensive) army compositions in the game.

Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.

Not with larger numbers.

The thing about VRs is that they never overkill--the beam is instant. The most damage that can possibly be wasted is between 9 and 12 depending on upgrades and armor (and it's lower vs. non-armored targets).

Meanwhile each volley of corruptor spores probably has a huge chunk of those shots landing on the 1-3 voids that happen to be just slightly ahead of the pack, wasting most of the damage.

Again, none of this matters in 1v1 (because you'll never see numbers like that) or even in most team games/ffas, but when it does happen you need either multiple waves of units or some kind of AoE weapon.

Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.

Not with larger numbers.

The thing about VRs is that they never overkill--the beam is instant. The most damage that can possibly be wasted is between 9 and 12 depending on upgrades and armor (and it's lower vs. non-armored targets).

Meanwhile each volley of corruptor spores probably has a huge chunk of those shots landing on the 1-3 voids that happen to be just slightly ahead of the pack, wasting most of the damage.

Again, none of this matters in 1v1 (because you'll never see numbers like that) or even in most team games/ffas, but when it does happen you need either multiple waves of units or some kind of AoE weapon.

I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.

Blink stalkers counter mass VRs perfectly well, I've done it many times. The only way you can lose is if they're way ahead on upgrades or if they're all clumped up and you're marching in and getting destroyed line by line; really gotta blink under them.

Even with a perfect blink, you'll still lose against mass VRs. One VR is close to even with two stalkers (and with larger numbers the stalkers start to overkill, favoring VRs). With 40-50 VRs you can kill 80-100 stalkers in a straight-up fight, which represents an unrealistic food total in stalkers, anyway. Moreover, VRs gain more from upgrades than stalkers do.

I've seen it a couple times in FFAs (esp. during that Funday Monday challenge when I couldn't make any sort of attack against the guy amassing VRs until I hunted down the other fool's last hidden hatchery). True mass VRs (not 1v1 mass VRs, which is maybe 8 or so) is one of the most powerful (and expensive) army compositions in the game.

It's also completely retarded.

Ironically, mass carriers is one of the few things that can beat mass void rays, depending on who has the upgrade advantage.

Corruptors are basically dead even versus Void Rays if you dump similar resources into your fleets, they're better for VR hunting than mutas.

Not with larger numbers.

The thing about VRs is that they never overkill--the beam is instant. The most damage that can possibly be wasted is between 9 and 12 depending on upgrades and armor (and it's lower vs. non-armored targets).

Meanwhile each volley of corruptor spores probably has a huge chunk of those shots landing on the 1-3 voids that happen to be just slightly ahead of the pack, wasting most of the damage.

Again, none of this matters in 1v1 (because you'll never see numbers like that) or even in most team games/ffas, but when it does happen you need either multiple waves of units or some kind of AoE weapon.

I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.

e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?

Stiggy and I did those tests, and I believe it was carriers vs. corruptors in which the corruptors won. I think corruptors did better than mutas, though, against VRs. It's possible I'm remembering this wrong.

Also, we only tested up to 100 food, I think. Might be worth doing again as the units have changed since then. Looking at the numbers:

Corruptors vs VRs:

Corruptors: 200 hp, 2 armor, 7.36 dps
VR: 250 hp, 0 armor, 13.33 dps

They're very even in small numbers (a VR is just slightly less expensive than 1.5 corruptors), but with larger numbers the VRs' lack of overkill becomes a dominating advantage. Also, I've ignored the VRs charge here--in small groups the VRs will get charged up and claim an advantage over the corruptors. In huge masses they're unlikely to ever charge, but again, that lack of overkill makes up for it.

I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.

e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?

Uncharged Void Rays do 180% as much damage as they did pre-1.2. VR vs Corruptors in huge numbers used to be good for VRs because they'd never get charged. But now, VRs will beat corruptors even when uncharged. And VRs just better against corruptors as you add more numbers to each side.

VRs will always beat equal food Corruptors. And the cost difference between them is so minor as to be negligible. VRs also benefit more from upgrades more than corruptors do.

I'm certain that someone on this board tested 20+ void rays versus their value in corruptors and that corruptors have a slight edge as the numbers climb. I believe it was Stiggy.

I think this test may have even occurred before the VR nerf in patch 1.2. Though he may have tested in response to the patch.

e: By the way, what did iNcontrol say about the Battle in the Bronze?

Uncharged Void Rays do 180% as much damage as they did pre-1.2. VR vs Corruptors in huge numbers used to be good for VRs because they'd never get charged. But now, VRs will beat corruptors even when uncharged. And VRs just better against corruptors as you add more numbers to each side.

VRs will always beat equal food Corruptors. And the cost difference between them is so minor as to be negligible. VRs also benefit more from upgrades more than corruptors do.

Minor nitpick--with VRs vs. Corruptors equal upgrades won't change the outcome. The VR gains more DPS from attack upgrades than the Corruptor, but it also loses more DPS from the Corruptor's armor upgrades. 3/3 VRs vs 3/3 Corruptors is identical to 0/0 VRs vs. 0/0 Corruptors (unless the VRs charge, in which case the upgrades *do* heavily favor them).

Someone massing VRs is likely to have an upgrade or two on someone reacting to them with Corruptors, though.

I was curious so I played around with Void Rays vs Corruptors and/or Mutas, and yeah you're right DMR.

Equalized for gas 30 corruptors leave ~5 void rays alive out of 20. Equalized for gas mutalisks get thrashed, not even close.

Didn't try equalizing for minerals, since gas is much more commonly the limiting factor. Though if zerg has an extra base mining gas they could handle the VRs with mineral-equalized corruptor numbers.

Though now I'm thinking that with realistic numbers in a 1v1, corruptors might be able to use clumping and burst damage to kite void rays thanks to the loss of flux vanes. It's really a huge VR nerf, situational damage boost notwithstanding.

Because IdrA and Artosis are just arguing by saying "No you're wrong you haven't done it you can't possibly be right your arguments suck." And then saying that his arguments are invalid because he's not in Korea.

Basically IdrA is arguing like a douche and Artosis is backing him up.