Internet Killed the Alien Star

If you're looking for one of those famous, big-eyed alien abductors, try looking on the sides of milk cartons. The UFO cultural moment in
America is long since over, having gone out with the Clintons and grunge rock in the 90s. Ironically, the force that killed the UFO fad is the same
force that catapulted it to super-stardom: the Internet. And therein hangs a tale about how the Internet can conceal and reveal the truth.

The internet has certainly help to out the hoaxers and given the luney toons a tool to try and spread their idiotic bantering. But I also believe
that it has help increase the awareness of UFO's not diminish it. The internet places a multitude of information at the fingertips of the serious
researcher as well as the novices like myself. Just as in any subject on the web one has to seek confirmation from what one considers multible
reliable sources and stay away from the wacho's living in lala land. I believe through deligent search and intelligent weeding out of probable
disinformation there is a wealth of knowledge to be discovered. Too many
prominent people have come forward and placed their careers on the line in support of Ufology for it to be so easily dismissed. Stan Friedman comes to
mind, The Disclosure project, Col. Corso, Honorable Paul Hellyer are just
a small example. I do not agree with the article at all. What I see coming from the internet is a more informed base of intelligent individuals who
are able to look at evidence with a more critical eye, easily discounting the BS.

It's hard to disagree with the premise of the article, but I think it's factually incorrect. The article fails to explain the disclosure project in
Brazil, the many UFO videos and photographs coming out of Mexico, and it fails to accurately depict the true extent to which some of the
encounters/documents it mentions have been debunked (it says MJ-12 was a hoax, but fails to mention that merely some of the documents have been found
to be false, but still leaves numerous unanswered questions).

The debunkers may cling to the idea that we now have the technology to capture any sighting anywhere at any time and the lack of "physical" evidence
and major sightings as proof that UFO's are an invented phenomena. Yet they fail to acknowledge or adequately explain the tremendous amount of
physical evidence that has been discredited without adequate explanation (i.e., you can't prove it's extraterrestria just because it doesn't appear
to have a terrestrial origin).

If I were to write an article, it would be to suggest that contact with an alien race may not be impending, but the evidence that such contact can and
will occur in the future is mounting. There have been many, many sightings over the years that have no alternative explanation other than visitation
by extraterrestrials. Many, many prominent, reliable government, military, and private-sector people have come forward to report that their
governments are hiding the true extent of their knowledge of extra terrestrial contact (the recent Russian-UFO episode of the UFO files in which
Kapustin Yar was studied has some extraordinary claims by people with very, very impressive credentials).

In other words, the story in the link is just like every other debunker trick -- make statements that overgeneralize, misstate facts, and then draw
very logical conclusions that can't be challenged without proving that the assumptions and facts were incorrect. Sure, the debunkers can continue to
say "there's no proof anything landed as Roswell". Yes, that's absolutely true. But there's very strong evidence that something that
freaked-out the military crashed there.

Originally posted by Centrist
Many, many prominent, reliable government, military, and private-sector people have come forward to report that their governments are hiding the true
extent of their knowledge of extra terrestrial contact (the recent Russian-UFO episode of the UFO files in which Kapustin Yar was studied has some
extraordinary claims by people with very, very impressive credentials).

I'm interested in the bit you mention about Kapustin Yar,any handy internet links before i launch into searching ? Is it the July 28 1989 sighting
you are referring to ?
Ta

Centrist The use of "many many" this or that and public or goverment personnel does not amount to much of anything. When you look at over 60
years for physical evidence you realize we have zero physical evidence. If anyone has physical evidence please present that evidence for scientific
study. The reality is they can't because there is none. It is all hearsay. One persons word against another.

Every story and tale about UFOs/Aliens is conveniently clouded in cover up and intrigue. You don't need to be a debunker to note that the legitamite
UFO heyday has run its course. The 1990's should have been banner years for UFO and Aliens. Unfortunately it produced a myriad of terrible hoaxes
that were initialy accepted as proof. For me those were key years that killed off any last shred I had to hold out for. It was also durring these
years that long held images from the 1960-70's were identified as hoaxes.

The bedrock that the whole UFO phenomenon lies on has been seriously shaken and fractured. What's possibly worse are zealots work to undermine the
very beliefs they want others to accept. By accepting any blurry photo or odd video anomlies as proof of alien beings.

How so?

As for me I love UFO's and Aliens. They are a great diversion from everyday life. I put UFO's and Aliens in the same league as Dragons. Cool stuff
of legend. I've learned to accept the glory days of "Flying Saucers" are well behind us. There is nothing cool about shaky lights at night
or blurry metal objects @ 50,000 feet durring the day.

We as UFO researchers and readers have a thousand times more information available to us than before the internet became available to most if not
all.

Nullster, if you saw a Hoax in the 90's and you believed it was true Aliens, and then found out it was a Hoax. That in no way means the true Unknowns
are all hoaxes it just means you wanted to believe and you got fooled.

As another mentioned Brazil who's Air Force came out this year and admitted that they have been registering UFO traffic since 1954, and Brazil
happens to have the most sophisticated and Largest RADAR and Monitoring Systems on the Planet , SIVAM.

The French are re-opening their UFO investigations as of this Year.

Scientists have registered UFOs with instrumentation in the Hessdalen Valley.

No one can deny the fact that the U.S. Military investigated UFOs for 20 years publicly. And Blue Book determined that 1 in 5 UFO reports can not be
explained as Hoax , misidentification , or prosaic object.

J. Allen Hynek , Science Adviser to Blue Book noted that the better the information and the more qualified the Observers are the more likely the UFO
will be classified as an "Unknown". That is exactly the opposite you would expect if all UFOs are just imaginary , misidentified , or prosaic
objects.

I personally feel like while there is more people talking nonsense on the Internet , we also have more people sharing valuable information and doing
serious research.

Phood The cool thing about UFOs and Aliens is that they capture the imagination. The concepts of UFOS and Aliens is intriguing, that there are
some creatures that are smarter and more advanced than we could hope to ever be. With that imagination gives us a sense of awe and equal
vulnerability. Thats what really fed the UFO craze in the 1950'60'70s. Hey the Considering the Cold War, all we needed was an Alien threat to make
matters worse. Of course the government took interest.

That TSC article is great read because it points out the obvious. It cuts to the chase of why everything has dragged on for so many years. Why
credible sighting are so infrequent these days. The Interenet proved one thing. You can only build up so much hype before the truth gets in the way.
What the Internet gave, the Internet took away.

Are there mysterious unknown phenomenon we have yet to explain? Absolutely! Do they have to be extraterretrial? No. Unfortunately people have alterior
motives when the come to be proffesionals on the subject. UFO Reaserchers Decieve Followers

As for me. I'll continue to draw, model and animate UFOs and aliens. I love the stuff

lost_shaman No one is denying anything. Yes many governments studied UFOs and so? Any government investigatiung UFO's is not proof aliens
exist. The Cold War. People seem oblivious to that time in the world. No stone was left unturned. You bet they investigated UFOS.

People see Mother Mary in a Cheese Puff. Or Jesus on a freeway wall. That is their faith. UFO'ism is on the verge of a new religion because of such a
lack of physical tangible evidence. It is not about science or facts anymore. It is more about blind faith. Just have faith, you don't need evidence
to believe. UFO's are not my faith or religion. I am a skeptic because the truth is there is zero proof. And If anyone has proof. Please please
please lets have some serious scientists investigate the evidence.

That TCS article is full of information that highlights the failures of the UFO communities. After more than 60 years where is that Physical Evidence
and undisputable Proof? People talking and showing documents is not proof. No more than this Forum existing is proof of Aliens or UFOs. Alien ships
and alien bodies are proof. Please present that proof.

The Internet showed this particular emperor to be lacking in clothes. If UFOs and alien visitations were genuine, tangible, objective realities,
the Internet would be an unstoppable force for detecting them. How long could the vast government conspiracy last, when intrepid UFO investigators
could post their prized pictures on the Internet seconds after taking them? How could the Men in Black shut down every website devoted to scans of
secret government UFO documents? How could marauding alien kidnappers remain hidden in a nation with millions of webcams?

Originally posted by nullsterPhood The cool thing about UFOs and Aliens is that they capture the imagination. The concepts of UFOS and Aliens is intriguing, that there are
some creatures that are smarter and more advanced than we could hope to ever be. With that imagination gives us a sense of awe and equal
vulnerability. Thats what really fed the UFO craze in the 1950'60'70s. Hey the Considering the Cold War, all we needed was an Alien threat to make
matters worse. Of course the government took interest.

Well, the Smith memo, which is official says Flying sacuers are real, how do you correspond to that?
Sure, maybe Sarbacher was mentally insane, but asuming he wasn't, why the hell would he make that up? After all he was a prominent scientist.

lost_shaman No one is denying anything. People see Mother Mary in a Cheese Puff. Or Jesus on a freeway wall. That is their faith. UFO'ism is
on the verge of a new religion because of such a lack of physical tangible evidence. It is not about science or facts anymore. It is more about blind
faith. lost_shaman, Just have faith, you don't need evidence to believe. UFO's are not my faith or religion. I am a skeptic because the truth is
there is zero proof.

What do you mean its not about science and facts anymore?

We don't have absolute proof for lots of things , we do have evidence of true "unknown" UFOs that is increasingly strong.

I don't know that Aliens are Flying around in UFOs, I only know that UFOs are Flying around and no matter how a Skeptic wants to Skew history , UFOs
have been taken very seriously for 60 years by many of the Worlds most influential Governments.

What does it matter if some people have religious attitudes toward Aliens and UFOs?

Some people have religious attitudes toward just about anything you can think of. It has always been that way throughout Human History.

Some people worship Animals,
some worship the Earth,
some worship the Sun,
some worship the Moon,
some worship their own Leaders,
some worship God,
some worship the Great Spirit,
some worship Allah
some worship Buddha,
some worship Jesus,
some worship Mohammad,
some worship Saints,
some worship Angels,
some worship the Devil,
some worship Demons,
some worship Aliens.

lost_shaman I'll drop out of this one. I prefer the objective, science, and analytical approach over faith, obsession, or wanting. Religion
and objective rationale aren't a good mix. Just look through history.

I'll end my part with this.
The Internet is the best place to root out facts from fantasy. If it's real it will make the through to the mainstream as such. If its a hoax or
folly it will rendered as such and never get any worthwhile notice again. Post a fraud or a lie and you'll get snipped by the world community. That
is why UFO sightings and Alien stories have dropped so dramaticaly. Global information has helped kill the UFO/Alien phenomenon. They just don't make
Flying Saucers like the used to. Ahh the good ole days of a string and a hub cap

Originally posted by nullsterlost_shaman I'll drop out of this one. I prefer the objective, science, and analytical approach over faith, obsession, or wanting. Religion
and objective rationale aren't a good mix. Just look through history.

Err ... Umm... o.k. well I was just responding to you when you said ..

lost_shaman No one is denying anything. People see Mother Mary in a Cheese Puff. Or Jesus on a freeway wall. That is their faith. UFO'ism is
on the verge of a new religion because of such a lack of physical tangible evidence. It is not about science or facts anymore. It is more about blind
faith. lost_shaman, Just have faith, you don't need evidence to believe. UFO's are not my faith or religion.

So your saying its fine to broach the subject when your making your point , but you'll politely drop out of the conversation because the topic you
brought up does not mix well with objective rationale.

That was the point I was trying to make. The point is that it does not matter from a Factual point of view that some people may have a religious
attitude toward Aliens and UFOs.

From nullster

The Internet is the best place to root out facts from fantasy. If it's real it will make the through to the mainstream as such.

Originally posted by nullsterCentrist The use of "many many" this or that and public or goverment personnel does not amount to much of anything....

Every story and tale about UFOs/Aliens is conveniently clouded in cover up and intrigue. ...

The bedrock that the whole UFO phenomenon lies on has been seriously shaken and fractured.

As for me I love UFO's and Aliens.

First, you claims to "love" ufo's and aliens. Why would one who is objectively studying a subject gain an emotional attachment to it? Couple that
with your incessant need to post CGI created images and I have a hard time figuring exactly what position you're taking... but looking more closely
at some of the statements you make...

"The use of "many many" this or that and public or goverment personnel does not amount to much of anything...."

What does that mean? If many, many people of significant credibility and who would have had access to particular knowledge come forward and say it's
true, then their stories should be given serious consideration. You denial of their credibility is not relevant to whether they are telling the
truth. Debunkers like to have one-way credibility tests, but until a debunker has the credentials and access necessary to refute the statements of a
well-placed russian colonel or scientist, I think you have to take their testimony for what it's worth -- a good indication that there is organized
government cover-up of a phenomena.

"Every story and tale about UFOs/Aliens is conveniently clouded in cover up and intrigue. ..."

By whom? If you look at each story with indicia of truth (e.g. Roswell) you have a clear facts that were "conveniently clouded" by those who are
accused of the conspiracy. You can't use the fact that most, if not all, UFO sightings have been "clouded" in conspiracy as a valid argument to
suggest the unreliability of the evidence, when it's those who are attempting to hide and/or debunk the evidence that are the ones causing the
"clouding". With reference, again, to Roswell.... the U.S. military announced it had recovered a flying disk. It then took the "remains" to
Texas and announced that it was merely the fragments of a weather balloon and that the remains would not be taken further. Nevertheless, military
records show that there was a "special" flight later that day from that same base in Texas that suggest the remains were flown to Wright-Patterson
AAF base. Hmmm. Who clouded this up? Not the ones seeking the truth, nor is the evidence itself "cloudy". The "evidence" was buried by those
who changed their story. And what about the UFO's over D.C.? Thousands of people reported sightings. Military logs show that many jets were
scrambled in response to these sightings and radar returns. The government then denies anything happened?

Sir -- you are confusing "clouding" with the conspiracy that, itself, is being investigated and thus are presenting a circular argument.

"The bedrock that the whole UFO phenomenon lies on has been seriously shaken and fractured. "

Not sure that that means

The UFO phenomena may be something beyond what I am studying. The "phenomena" implies, to my anyway, something that
has caught the public attention is and causing a certain reaction. It's not, however, Ufology -- the actual study of whether extra terrestrial races
exists and whether they are visiting the earth (moreso the latter, of course -- they're not "Ufo's" on their homeworld).

I think what you're eluding to is that the public perception of the existence of UFO's has been significantly discredited and the credibility of
those who suggest that the earth is being visited by alien races is tarnished due to so many hoaxes and/or unreliable information that has been proven
false.

Hmm... not that disinformation could have played a part in this... but could it have? Rather than deal in "perceptions", I prefer to rely on an
objective review of the facts. They continue to tell me that despite the extensive amount of intentional disinformation coupled with the false report
and hoaxes perpetrated by those who seek to discredit the field of Ufology and/or simply seek attention for themselves, there is still clear evidence
that governments around the world are withholding information and, perhaps, even physical evidence of extraterrestrial visitation.

Is it harder nowadays to sort the wheat from the chaff thanks to the amount of static introduced by unreliable sources on the internet? Sure. But
that just means that diligence and caution among those who are more interested in the truth than the political correctness of the "phenomena" has
become paramount.

In reality, however, there are no politics to the issue. The earth has been visited by extra terrestrials or it has not, correct? Given that the
answer is black and white, you'll have to forgive those of us who have the tenacity to see through the shades of gray that are painted by those who,
despite the best of intentions, may misapprehend the question.

Let me just ask one thing and then I'm done... Was Rafael Palmeiro lying to congress? There is a black and white answer to this question, right? Or
is there? Did he know that he was injected with steroids? He tested positive for them, right? Hmmm.... we have lots of baseball players who say
that they knew he was taking them, but they called them "B12" shots. Are the players lying? Was Raffy? Haven't we all formed our own opinions?
But can anyone prove anything? What does this have to do with UFO's? I think you can figure that out for yourself

Originally posted by Centrist
First, you claims to "love" ufo's and aliens. Why would one who is objectively studying a subject gain an emotional attachment to it?

Centrist - In your very first line you start off on the wrong foot. Emotional Attachment. Get real. That is the worst point of contention
someone could conjure up. Any practical person knows what I mean in what I wrote. OK I love fast cars. I love the space program. I love Italian food.
What's the emotional attachment?

I can see you want to make this personal. Im not going to take your troll bait amigo. I'll keep posting my images as my method of expression. If you
don't like em, tough. You can continue to express yourself how you choose, I'll opt not to slam you for that.

I'm interested in the bit you mention about Kapustin Yar,any handy internet links before i launch into searching ? Is it the July 28 1989 sighting
you are referring to ?
Ta

Actually, I was referring to the UFO files episode on the History channel that was entitled "The Russian Roswell" (or something similar). It's an
excellent piece on the russian equivalent to Area 51 and what they may have stored there. The story is actually quite incredible, as it details
alleged dogfights between UFOs and russian pilots. Some of these pilots and many russian scientists are interviewed and, in fact, claim that they
have first-hand knowledge of the truth of these events. Obviously, the physical evidence is missing, but they claim that it's buried in the
underground complex beneath Kapustin Yar.

Read about the episode
here. -- apparently, it will be rebroadcast on Friday, November 25th at 10pm for those who missed it. Thanks to TiVo, I have a collection of
all of the UFO files episodes. The current seasons, despite taking a turn for the more dramatic, is definitely bent toward the side of the believer,
rather than the skeptic. I wonder whether that's due to the fact that most of the people watching are believers, moreso than skeptics... and give
that, the degree to which the show has become inherently biased. Nevertheless, the show is extremely enjoyable and, at least to my knowledge, has
avoided making any Jennings-esque blatant mischaracterizations of fact.

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