Well, seriously. And btw, I love the way she's blonde and pink-clad during the tours, but the minute they need to promote their new album - boom, she's GAWTH. Not that I care about it, since either way her clothes were horrible so I can't take any fashion cues from her. Though, at the beginning of 'new' Nightwish, she had some awesome stripey socks moments.

Well, seriously. And btw, I love the way she's blonde and pink-clad during the tours, but the minute they need to promote their new album - boom, she's GAWTH. Not that I care about it, since either way her clothes were horrible so I can't take any fashion cues from her. Though, at the beginning of 'new' Nightwish, she had some awesome stripey socks moments.

No, I just wouldn't find it unbearable to watch and I didn't wanna talk about the song since we didn't hear much of it, these 15 seconds were quite repulsive but maybe I'll like the full song. And if I don't, no biggie, I pretty much like only half of their stuff, Tarja or no Tarja.

Good God! Yep, they look rather ridiculous in the video but since they're actually going for the "musical" theme this time, then it's understandable... The music sounds fine. It's very similar to Hans Zimmer and it's a good influence. I expect this to be a solid album and seems the critics who have already been presented with the release, have expressed positive opinions...

*Facepalm*
Good God! Yep, they look rather ridiculous in the video but since they're actually going for the "musical" theme this time, then it's understandable... The music sounds fine. It's very similar to Hans Zimmer and it's a good influence. I expect this to be a solid album and seems the critics who have already been presented with the release, have expressed positive opinions...

I didn't talk about looking ridiculous, they always had that crazy image and I liked it... and believe me, I've been exposed to thousands of their pics since my sister had a huge teenage crush on Emppu Vuorinen. I was talking about what fits and what doesn't, and what is natural to people... Annette obviously prefers different types of clothes than the one they make her wear during album promotions.

And everyone is talking about the music sounding fine, which I can understand, being a Nightwish fan means you love filmsy and Disneyish music. And it was okay during the first innocent years of the band. But men of fourty-something, Finland's most popular export with a shitload of fans? They can afford to do ANYTHING they please, cause in their huge fanbase there's always people who would like it. But if they choose to do THIS... Tuomas writing an album and a movie about his poor poet self and the suffering he will endure with growing old... he doesn't come off as a young romantic artist anymore, but rather someone stuck-up and pretty autistic, if I may use that word.

Didn't tarja got kicked out for like 10 years ago or something? Oh, damn maiden sux when Di'Anno got kicked out, that happened just like yesterday or something?

Seriously it's has been quite a while since Tarja had anything to do with the band, just let it fucking go...

I don't listen to Nightwish for the vocals, imo tarja sucked and anette is a bit better. I just listen to the band because Tuomas is a musical genius. Imo Tony kakko could sing in Nightwish cuse that dude can really sing

And everyone is talking about the music sounding fine, which I can understand, being a Nightwish fan means you love filmsy and Disneyish music. And it was okay during the first innocent years of the band. But men of fourty-something, Finland's most popular export with a shitload of fans? They can afford to do ANYTHING they please, cause in their huge fanbase there's always people who would like it. But if they choose to do THIS... Tuomas writing an album and a movie about his poor poet self and the suffering he will endure with growing old... he doesn't come off as a young romantic artist anymore, but rather someone stuck-up and pretty autistic, if I may use that word.

Who said I was a Disney fan?

Now that you brought this up, I agree Tuomas sometimes does seem to leave an impression of someone who writes odes to oneself. It does bother me sometimes. Then again, at least he isn't writing odes to Satan nor do the band members dance on the corpses of people they've just killed in their music videos...
Nightwish has good compositions and a good feeling about their music, that's why I personally like them. I sort of forgot them for a long time but after Tarja left and Anette joined, it made me feel interested again, not just in their new stuff but also inspired me to dig up their old material. I have had no reason to be disappointed.

Come one... musicals can be fun... besides... "a creative adult is the child who survived"...

Ok... I'll go to the kitchen now, get something to drink, light a cig and be gruff and deep...

I'm going to reserve judgement about them until after I have heard the album and watched whatever it is that they filmed. But I will agree with the sentiment that they might be overreaching into Johnny Depp land. Actually I am almost certain that it is the case, Tuomas is even trying to look like him. Not that this is bad, they're both sexy men and should collaborate, possibly on a homemade video if you know what I mean.

Erm. So yeah I also agree with the notion that he might have something strange going on up there, it is certainly possible, it's not like it's uncommon to have a psychiatric disorder. Nightwish's music spoke to me most when I was doing a lot of psychedelic drugs, there is fantasy, grandiosity, flamboyance, passionate emotion and all of that great stuff that goes hand in hand with excessive dopamine signaling in the brain. Insanity can produce the greatest genius by that virtue.

I'll probably like it because I don't care about the genre. The problem will either be with 1. Heavy Metal reactionaries. 2. Those who fell in love with Nightwish when they were 16 and still want to be able to say that Nightwish is the best shit ever 10 years later but they still appeal to the same audience base. I'm pretty indifferent to change. I like everything they've ever done, and I probably like Dark Passion Play the most so far. I certainly understand that some people want them to expand on their sound from Oceanborn and take it to the next level, but for me it's just going to be another interesting album, hopefully with great-sounding arrangements and some interesting ideas. It is very hard to see Nightwish making a musically poor album, only an album that offends the sensibilities of some people.

There is always the possibility that they're whoring for fans. Dressing Anette up in crazy shit and acting all theatrical will appeal to a great deal of teenage girls and art students no matter what, and then they can please their original fans with the rest of the album. It's a proven technique for raking in the cash.

Now that you brought this up, I agree Tuomas sometimes does seem to leave an impression of someone who writes odes to oneself. It does bother me sometimes. Then again, at least he isn't writing odes to Satan nor do the band members dance on the corpses of people they've just killed in their music videos...
Nightwish has good compositions and a good feeling about their music, that's why I personally like them. I sort of forgot them for a long time but after Tarja left and Anette joined, it made me feel interested again, not just in their new stuff but also inspired me to dig up their old material. I have had no reason to be disappointed.

Come one... musicals can be fun... besides... "a creative adult is the child who survived"...

Ok... I'll go to the kitchen now, get something to drink, light a cig and be gruff and deep...

I wasn't using 'Disney' as a derogatory term, neither was I implying that everyone should be serious and that bands shouldn't be allowed to have a little fun, but I think that in this case it's kinda beating a dead horse, there was a time and place for that. Some band styles have expiration dates, and then a change is necessary... this way, they will only get older and their fanbase will stay the same age. I just don't think they're being 100% true to themselves with this, at least some members of the band. Of course, I might be making a mistake, and they're all whimsical people true to youth and its magic.

I'm going to reserve judgement about them until after I have heard the album and watched whatever it is that they filmed. But I will agree with the sentiment that they might be overreaching into Johnny Depp land. [...]
Erm. So yeah I also agree with the notion that he might have something strange going on up there, it is certainly possible, it's not like it's uncommon to have a psychiatric disorder.
[...]
Those who fell in love with Nightwish when they were 16 and still want to be able to say that Nightwish is the best shit ever 10 years later but they still appeal to the same audience base.
[...] It is very hard to see Nightwish making a musically poor album, only an album that offends the sensibilities of some people.
[...]
There is always the possibility that they're whoring for fans. Dressing Anette up in crazy shit and acting all theatrical will appeal to a great deal of teenage girls and art students no matter what, and then they can please their original fans with the rest of the album. It's a proven technique for raking in the cash.

You and me, sir, are on the same page. Except, if he really has mental issues, he should get help. Sublimation is a nice technique for dealing with pain, but if 15 years later he still has so much pain left that he wants to escape to "Johnny Depp land", he should quit writing and start going on therapy.

ErnilEnNaur - 30.10.2011 at 13:18

Very very commercial, as have been almost all of their singles. But somehow I like it, I find it convincing. The line "I am the empty grave of Peter Pan" gives me the feeling that Tuomas knows what he is doing and that what he is doing is good stuff. Their singles have never captured the greatness of their albums (Holopainen said in an interview that he hates singles anyway), so I am expecting a good album. The video is horrible though, compared against Nemo, Amaranth and The Islander it is like a joke.

The video is horrible though, compared against Nemo, Amaranth and The Islander it is like a joke.

I imagine they're just taking it over the top with this one and just allow them to make something ridiculous. It's like the Estonian film director who made "Kevade", a grand classic and then "Don Juan Tallinnas" which was a clueless anachronistic musical where the entire film crew had the freedom to be as ridiculous as they could never dare to be in other cases...

In any case, I listen to this music only and I don't care about the video... the video, it's like... Stephen King's "IT" meeting "Opera Phantom Pirates of the Caribbean" featuring zombie Snow White on vocals. Yes... it looks as bad as it sounds...

Well, this teaser sounds quite good to me. Except for the part when Annette opens her mouth and in my mind I hear: "Oh man, this would sound much better with Tarja's voice and lyrical style."

Seriously, Annette has a nice and sweet voice, and I was surprised how good it was when I heard her in her solo project. But that also proved me that Nightwish is not really her musical style.

Yep, might be for you... However, I find Nightwish better and more "alive" with Anette than Tarja. Tarja always had a 50-year-old lady's voice. Plus she always sang in the same academic and dry manner. Plus she isn't the grandest opera singer anyway. If Nightwish were to have operatic singer, I'd prefer Melissa Ferlaak. She has a versatile angelic voice and the smokin' hot looks. Besides... Tarja would have left after DPP recordings anyway so there wouldn't have been any difference...
Tarja sounds good but I personally got tired of Nightwish during the last albums of Tarja...

And sorry but Anette doesn't fit in a metal band. Everything about her screams pop.

Kool. In any case, her pop vocals sound good. It may be sad, yes, because thanks to Tarjas metal vocals Nightwish had a metal sound. But well... you can always listen to Tarja's solo albums which ooze pure metal in liquid form. "Henkäys Ikuisuudesta", anyone? No, seriously? Since when is Tarja's vocal technique "metal"? many people even say that classical singing is incompatible with metal.

I have to admit I love pop music. The pop music of the golden era, the 50s, 60s, 70s... when there were orchestras and good composers and the bands performed good quality popular music that was just like a normal derivation from classical music. From that music also derived different genres, such as rock, blues, metal. It's ALL pop music. Without pop music, we wouldn't have anything at all. Nowadays, of course, there's some bad quality popular music infesting the scene but who says we have to listen to them anyway. I personally listen to good singers...

I love cheese in metal. I listen to Blind Guardian and Rhapsody all the time, Immortal is among my favorite black metal bands, I enjoy cheesy "lol lets drink beer and thrash fuk teh pozers!" type thrash, but the video for this was somehow slightly too cheesy even for me. Oh well. The music itself was good enough, just as much pop as it is metal, but it's good and catchy.

I did? Well, I do consider their music good. If I'm defending anyone, then it's because it's kinda fun to troll with people who act like Tarja fanboys : )
It's been six years and still it's ridiculous to see people starting over and over again... "OMG. THEY SOO suck now! If only Tarja hadn't left!" Now these are fanboys...

I don't consider myself a fan of the band in any way, and the only album of theirs I found decent was Once, but between that and DPP I found a reason for disliking Annette's vocals. That being said, both singers are fit for pop just as they are for metal. I prefer Tarja's power though; Annette just comes off very weak to me, like she needs the Britney Spears treatment to make her voice sound better in the studio.

But I guess I understand why people still hate the change and act like idiots every time Nightwish news is presented. It's no different than thrash fans hating on Metallica for...everything they did post-1990.

But I guess I understand why people still hate the change and act like idiots every time Nightwish news is presented. It's no different than thrash fans hating on Metallica for...everything they did post-1990.

Actually, on this thread there were exactly two 'Tarja is better' comments and about five comments how people who say that are annoying so you can see who's louder now. And I don't get how people hate on Annette's 'pop' vocals anyway. Like pop is a curse word or something. But, to be honest, if they wanted a warm and cuddly vocal, they could have selected much better than her, especially when it comes to singing old Nightwish songs.

You and me, sir, are on the same page. Except, if he really has mental issues, he should get help. Sublimation is a nice technique for dealing with pain, but if 15 years later he still has so much pain left that he wants to escape to "Johnny Depp land", he should quit writing and start going on therapy.

I was thinking more along the lines of mild schizophrenia, but what you say makes a lot of sense considering his mannerisms and songs like Poet And The Pendulum. I agree, we don't want another Michael Jackson on our hands. We don't know what the deal is but the pieces certainly support your theory that something might be up.

Whatever the case I'm very glad that we have him. Nobody makes music like he does. If he went pure pop tomorrow I probably wouldn't care because it would be unique and beautiful. If he is losing touch with reality do we really want him to get help as long as his life isn't in danger? Maybe he's quite all right being how he is and if he changed then he might lose the inspiration. It depends on how he is experiencing his life, sometimes you don't have to be normal to be contented, it depends on whether or not you can shape your world to your psyche, and he seems to have done it.

Actually, on this thread there were exactly two 'Tarja is better' comments and about five comments how people who say that are annoying so you can see who's louder now.

Nice to see you counted the posts by their contents.

Perhaps to make things bit more clear... there is no basic difference between those who say "Nightwish is bad now because Tarja left" and those who say "Nightwish is bad now because Anette is a pop singer" and those who say "Anette isn't a metal singer, thus Nightwish is bad now", is there? Gather up all the posts where people claim that the vocalist change has made the band's quality drop, do the calculations and analyse the results.

I was thinking more along the lines of mild schizophrenia, but what you say makes a lot of sense considering his mannerisms and songs like Poet And The Pendulum. I agree, we don't want another Michael Jackson on our hands. We don't know what the deal is but the pieces certainly support your theory that something might be up.

"Nymphomaniac Fantasia", anyone? "Lick my deepest..." I don't know but perhaps Tarja was not just Tuomas' muse but something deeper was going on and since Tarja changed (married) and was not the muse any more, Tuomas got depressed and booted her in order not to have her leave him but vice versa... plus recruiting a new singer pretty much the opposite of Tarja in order to leave the "podium" of the muse untouched because most probably no other classical singer can be better for Tuomas than his lost Tarja... Wasn't it implied in some interview that Tuomas was in awful depression because of the "break-up" with Tarja?

Perhaps to make things bit more clear... there is no basic difference between those who say "Nightwish is bad now because Tarja left" and those who say "Nightwish is bad now because Anette is a pop singer" and those who say "Anette isn't a metal singer, thus Nightwish is bad now", is there? Gather up all the posts where people claim that the vocalist change has made the band's quality drop, do the calculations and analyse the results.

[...]but something deeper was going on and since Tarja changed (married) and was not the muse any more, Tuomas got depressed and booted her in order not to have her leave him but vice versa...

Nope, I actually meant that people who complain about people who complain about the singer change are now louder than the actual people they're complaining about.
And about the other part of the post, pretty much my thoughts too... you can see how the music changes on Once as the relationship between the band members, and primarily Tuomas and Tarja, loses a part of its chemistry.

you can see how the music changes on Once as the relationship between the band members, and primarily Tuomas and Tarja, loses a part of its chemistry.

That's true if to look at the evolution of their music since the first album. At the beginning it was more like the band of Tarja and Tuomas producing music with dream-like themes stuffed with romantic elements. "Once" was powerful but it didn't have the warmth of "Angels..." and "Oceanborn" any more... They're only started now to work towards regaining this, in a different way now... what was, cannot be repeated the same way any longer...

Sheesh, why the hell do you people care so much that some people just prefer the old vocalist? I don't really care about Nightwish, but the people complaining about people complaining about Annete are far more annoying than people compalining about Tarja leaving. Some people just don't like pop vocals, it doesn't mean that they're "ZOMG teh elisizt dey only lizen 2 teh blak mehtl wit teh 666 copies dey r going 2 burn r crops, poison r water and deliver a plague upon our houses!!!!!"