If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

How ? Itachi seemed to know from the beginning. But the true answeer would be: the eyes. Sharingan can see chakra (give color to it or something), so basically a normal sharinga or MS should be capable of seeing the spiritual potential of a person.

True, very true.

Anyhow we'll see what Kishi does. Hopefully we won't have to wait too terribly long.

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

Problem is that not all Uchihas can awaken a sharingan, some don't possess sufficient spiritual powers. It therefore stands to reason that the Eye of an Uchiha incapable of spurring a sharingan will not evolve into a Rinnegan. For your hypothesis to be successful, Madara would have to have harvested an unawoken sharingan with the potential to awaken. How would he know?

For now, I think i'll go with an already awoken Sharingan, and of the ones we know about the most spiritually powerful eyes were Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, and now Kakashi.

From what I can tell, 1 of 3 things could have happened:

1. Madara had mutliple Uzumaki's that he was doing this to and Nagato was the "lucky" one.

2. Like Zero said, Madara knew the eyes would be strong that he gave to Nagato.

3. All Uchiha eyes are capable of the sharingan, but not all Uchiha's are capable of awakening them. So, Nagato just needed any pair of unawoken sharingan eyes to awaken them as rinnegan.

I can't say which is stronger, EMS or rinnegan, but I think madara's objective was to combine the two and I think he just did it. He took his rinnegan from Nagato and put them in his own Uchiha bloodline head and got what you see on his mask.
I don't know what his plans are for Sasuke's EMS, it might be jyuubi ressurection related or perhaps that eyepattern with the rinnegan and three sharingans inside it is possible and he wants that. Shit gets confusing real quick for me.

Also, about the spiritual and physical stuff. The eyes carrying the spiritual energies makes sense to me, but I don't wanna think they carry all of a person's spiritual energy. Itachi knew Naruto was an Uzumaki, so (I think) he literally meant it when he told Naruto that he "gave him some of his power". He gave him Uchiha spiritual power. Naruto now has Senju and Uchiha in him. That's a whole nother can of worms though. I only wanted to figure out how to make a rinnegan and where Madara's mask design came from.

1. Madara had mutliple Uzumaki's that he was doing this to and Nagato was the "lucky" one.

2. Like Zero said, Madara knew the eyes would be strong that he gave to Nagato.

3. All Uchiha eyes are capable of the sharingan, but not all Uchiha's are capable of awakening them. So, Nagato just needed any pair of unawoken sharingan eyes to awaken them as rinnegan.

I can't say which is stronger, EMS or rinnegan, but I think madara's objective was to combine the two and I think he just did it. He took his rinnegan from Nagato and put them in his own Uchiha bloodline head and got what you see on his mask.
I don't know what his plans are for Sasuke's EMS, it might be jyuubi ressurection related or perhaps that eyepattern with the rinnegan and three sharingans inside it is possible and he wants that. Shit gets confusing real quick for me.

Also, about the spiritual and physical stuff. The eyes carrying the spiritual energies makes sense to me, but I don't wanna think they carry all of a person's spiritual energy. Itachi knew Naruto was an Uzumaki, so (I think) he literally meant it when he told Naruto that he "gave him some of his power". He gave him Uchiha spiritual power. Naruto now has Senju and Uchiha in him. That's a whole nother can of worms though. I only wanted to figure out how to make a rinnegan and where Madara's mask design came from.

My brain's frying so imma stop now.

let's explain..

uchiha+senju=rinnegan. this is wrong! proof? danzou.. madara..

madara said "they were mine to begin with". so??

remember this, about sasuke:

"i like to stock good eyes" or something.. believe me, he thinks that sasuke's eyes belong to him right now.

blinkin

if you dont know wich is stronger, read part 2 again and again.

to awaken a rinnegan, you need to be chosen by god and you will destroy the world or find piece. nagato found piece, naruto. however madara is also destroying the world... so he could've been the chosen one to begin with. then, he later found that..(after fighting with hashirama. and rinnegan gave him hashirama's power)

madara could've been the chosen one to awaken the rinnegan. it makes sense..
you dont need uchiha+senju+etc to awaken the rinnegan.. the rinnegan itself will give you those powers. this also explain why madara was so weak. he lost those powers (rinnegan) ro better put, he gave them. so, why madara is so close to sharingan and why he gave rinnegan to nagato?
-he is an uchiha.(selfish,arrogant, proud of it etc) he loves sharingan, he is so proud of it (since sharingan is his own kekkei genkai)
-he needs gedo mazo..and gedo mazo will suck your life force away.. so.. why not use somebody that has huge life force and can easely be influenced? (an uzumaki)

i am just making theories that are based on some facts and logic to mess up with your heads and have fun. this is a manga.. the best ever, but only a manga..

artifice

he was unable to move.. so there is no need to use MS jutsus since his body was f+cked. in the flashback he was just too young and naive. but after the dead of his best friend and feeling guilty and full of hate..hum.. deja vu xD

okey this is getting annoying...I getting annoying too....
We have the Sage...he was all of the 6 paths....Hasirama and Madara were the 1st and the 2nd of those 6 paths...and Nagato was 3rd path...is that right?

if it is, how the hell would Nagato have all 6 paths(powers)?
he didn't have makuton....he had rinnegan, okey, but didn't have Susano
aaahhh, this is making me want to stop reading Naruto...if Kishi doesn't explain this, there will be a war, and since I am a Serb(we usually start all wars ), I will be the one firing the first shot

okey this is getting annoying...I getting annoying too....
We have the Sage...he was all of the 6 paths....Hasirama and Madara were the 1st and the 2nd of those 6 paths...and Nagato was 3rd path...is that right?

if it is, how the hell would Nagato have all 6 paths(powers)?
he didn't have makuton....he had rinnegan, okey, but didn't have Susano
aaahhh, this is making me want to stop reading Naruto...if Kishi doesn't explain this, there will be a war, and since I am a Serb(we usually start all wars ), I will be the one firing the first shot

Hashirama and Madara being 1st and 2nd, and Nagato being 3rd, that's the translation that's confusing you.

It's actually Rikudou Sennin is the first Sage of Six paths. Uchiha Madara is the second Sage of Six paths (as he has both of Rikudou's physical/spiritual energies in his body), and Nagato is the 3rd Sage of Six Paths.

Basically Rikudou Sennin was the first Rikudou, Madara is the second Rikudou, Nagato is the 3rd Rikudou, they're sages who either wielded or have the potential to wield the rinnegan (as in Madara's case).

Mokuton and Mangekyou jutsus are the yohton and inton (either yin or yang) releases of the Gedou path, meaning the rinnegan wielder. Izanagi (and maybe Izanami in future) is the onmyoton release (meaning both yin and yang).

Basically the rinnegan gives full control over life and death. The rinnegan wielder has full control over all creation, that includes destruction.

Mokuton jutsus is derived from Rikudou's physical energies, and Mangekyou jutsus are derived from Rikudou's spiritual energies. They each represent life or death powers of the rinnegan, the two halves, yin and yang.

I think Kishi gave Roku the Rinnegan so he could read the manga better than others, have enough stamina/energy to wait for new releases/spoilers, and use yin/yang release to create theories out of imagination and have them magically come to life in the manga.

@ Paul and others who believe that he implanted an awoken Sharingan into Nagato;

- tell me; WHY nagato? How did Madara knew, that Nagato was the " One " for awakening Rinnegan? Why did he implanted HIS or someone else's sharingan into Nagato, when there were more Uzumaki's? Or why didn't he just implanted more sharingan eyes into Uzumaki's childs, for having more chance of someone awakening such doujutsu?

You think that he implanted his " own eyes " into Nagato, without even knowing if he could awaken it? His own EMS? What I'm trying to say is that; you're not gonna implant your own awaken EMS into a child, if you don't know that he could awaken it.. and the bigger question is; how WOULD he know it?

- Like I said in my previous post; The Heavens choose you for wielding such powerful doujutsu, the Rinnegan. And we still don't know for sure, if he has lost his EMS..

His wharping / phasing / dimension jutsu could be related to his EMS, who knows. But yea; we just have to wait..

To his credit, I think RS has a really very good grasp of Kishi's concepts, and is most likely correct in the questions raised herein.

I find that where I take a separate path in guessing/anticipating Kishi, I am often tripped by my own propensity to seek the most direct and literal interpretations. These propensities serve me well for things I truly understand, not always so well with Manga.

Originally Posted by Aga bomBa

@ Paul and others who believe that he implanted an awoken Sharingan into Nagato;

- tell me; WHY nagato? How did Madara knew, that Nagato was the " One " for awakening Rinnegan? Why did he implanted HIS or someone else's sharingan into Nagato, when there were more Uzumaki's? Or why didn't he just implanted more sharingan eyes into Uzumaki's childs, for having more chance of someone awakening such doujutsu?

You think that he implanted his " own eyes " into Nagato, without even knowing if he could awaken it? His own EMS? What I'm trying to say is that; you're not gonna implant your own awaken EMS into a child, if you don't know that he could awaken it.. and the bigger question is; how WOULD he know it?

- Like I said in my previous post; The Heavens choose you for wielding such powerful doujutsu, the Rinnegan. And we still don't know for sure, if he has lost his EMS..

His wharping / phasing / dimension jutsu could be related to his EMS, who knows. But yea; we just have to wait..

@AGA,

The Most Direct Literal interpretation of Madara's repeated statements is that the Eyes are really his and he Really gave them to Nagato. Why is that so impossible to believe in a Manga?

Where are Madara's EMS. Everytime we've seen him he has no EMS, whatever happened to them? Maybe he implanted them in Nagato. Again, if Nagato's Rinnegan were not from Madara's original EMS, then we have a pair of eyes sitting in a bottle, or lost and destroyed somewhere.

Also someone else already hinted that Madara can sense who has strong Chakra.

Originally Posted by Zero

Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
Yes! And may those threads now rest in peace.

Problem is that not all Uchihas can awaken a sharingan, some don't possess sufficient spiritual powers. It therefore stands to reason that the Eye of an Uchiha incapable of spurring a sharingan will not evolve into a Rinnegan. For your hypothesis to be successful, Madara would have to have harvested an unawoken sharingan with the potential to awaken. How would he know?

For now, I think i'll go with an already awoken Sharingan, and of the ones we know about the most spiritually powerful eyes were Madara, Itachi, Sasuke, and now Kakashi.

How ? Itachi seemed to know from the beginning. But the true answeer would be: the eyes. Sharingan can see chakra (give color to it or something), so basically a normal sharinga or MS should be capable of seeing the spiritual potential of a person.

In any case, Madara has probably been keeping a close eye on the Uzumakis and he probably chose Nagato very well.

Even if you disagree, the other options suggested was that Madara implanted his spiritual energy into Nagato. Obviously he preselected Nagato here also. In my opinion, Nagato is far more likely to Evolve the Rinnegan with Madara's EMS (a surer bet), than with spiritual energies alone.

In the end, I may be totally wrong, but I don't really mind that. For now however, that's how I read it.

Last edited by paulbee; 09-26-2010 at 02:20 AM.

I am not perfect andI defy you to prove otherwise Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !