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Don't look for it to kick in until July.
If your sub doesn't start until July, your benefits don't start until then....that is just common sense.

Common sense i don't think is valid in a contract, they should specify some sort of things. Luckily we are talking about toys and no one could ever dream to take this legally serious.

Originally Posted by lee-ra

its frustrating - If his answer was different it would encourage people to start the subscription and ultimately they would make more money which is what they need.

I think that they can't do that, because they should have printed Fang man in little stock that is almost entirely covered by subscrition quota. They can't print many Fang man as Ram man or Jitsu, because is a low requested character and the can't permit anymore unsold leftovers.

I do feel sorry for those fans who couldn't buy a sub because of money issues, they were somewhat forced to cherry picking by life circumstances and it's unfortunate that they won't have access to some figures they love.

However, I feel a little less for those who didn't sub because of spite towards Toyguru/Mattel or because they were not interested in certain figures - they willfully took a well publicized risk with their decision, there's no point in crying over the negative outcome now..

There's something disturbing about the victimized mindset regarding Fang Man's availability. You shouldn't be taking common business practices as personal attacks. There's a fine line between desirability and entitlement.

I'm also guessing that Fang Man is the first figure to suffer from the 2013 sub sales drop. He should be the first figure with the quota set after the sales were finalized. And I won't be surprised if some of the vintage figures don't see DOS as well (Clamp Champ, NA He-man, & Castaspella). Just a sad fact of the way they are doing things. I feel sorry for those of you who cannot buy him DOS. I'm surprised that Mattel went through with it. They threatened that in 2012 as well, but it never happened. At least we know they aren't empty threats now.

I'm not a fan of Mattel's tactics but I do understand them. If I was to produce a line of toys, I would want to guarantee they were sold (either big box store or subscribers) because I'm not in the storage business and space is limited and valuable. And storage costs are unplanned overhead that steal money from tooling and deco costs. I'd rather have a whole new weapon for Squeeze then to have 300 Fang Man figures sitting in a warehouse in California for 6 months. I still think the Marzo, Gy-Gor, Carnivous, and Tytus re-runs are what drove the tooling budget down last year. They were probably taking up about $3000 a month worth of storage space.

And I keep seeing "greedy" and "selfish" tossed out a lot. I think we are all greedy and selfish in this argument. Mattel wants to guarantee they make money. Subbers want everything and some bonuses for being "good little money pony-uppers". Cherry pickers want the figures they want and figures they don't want can be trashed. So we are all somewhat selfish and only Mattel gets their way... nothing I can do about it.
I'm a subber if you hadn't guessed, I'm quitting everything else to keep this line alive (canceled TV, not buying comics (save He-man), not buying marvel legends, marvel U, star wars, tranformers, LEGO, Ben 10, etc.). Still buying TMNT though, those lines are almost as awesome as MOTUC!

Can we at least agree that MOTUC is absolutely amazing and the BEST line out on the market right now?

And I actually like Spector. He's got a cool space and ninja feel to him, and looking at him with my "kid eyes", I would have loved him. He is the MOTU Beachhead in my imagination.

But I'm excited about Strobo. I love the figure. And I don't have to hit up a friend that goes to Power-Con to score me some Strobo awesomeness. At least I hope I can get him beforehand... WSOD be gone!

I'm also guessing that Fang Man is the first figure to suffer from the 2013 sub sales drop. He should be the first figure with the quota set after the sales were finalized. And I won't be surprised if some of the vintage figures don't see DOS as well (Clamp Champ, NA He-man, & Castaspella). Just a sad fact of the way they are doing things. I feel sorry for those of you who cannot buy him DOS. I'm surprised that Mattel went through with it. They threatened that in 2012 as well, but it never happened. At least we know they aren't empty threats now.

I'm not a fan of Mattel's tactics but I do understand them. If I was to produce a line of toys, I would want to guarantee they were sold (either big box store or subscribers) because I'm not in the storage business and space is limited and valuable. And storage costs are unplanned overhead that steal money from tooling and deco costs. I'd rather have a whole new weapon for Squeeze then to have 300 Fang Man figures sitting in a warehouse in California for 6 months. I still think the Marzo, Gy-Gor, Carnivous, and Tytus re-runs are what drove the tooling budget down last year. They were probably taking up about $3000 a month worth of storage space.

A couple things you ignore:

The subs were ended so that they had the numbers for production from January on. Netossa was most likely the first figure struck by the reduced sales of the sub, and enough of her was made to allow for day of sales, despite the lukewarm reception she got when she was revealed. Fang Man got a better reception, and Mattel believes that the Filmation characters are popular enough to base a separate sub on, so what possible logic could be used to justify making less of him than Netossa? There should have been far more concerns about storage (which is not an unexpected expense; figures were supposed to be available until the next one came up for sale until Mattel got used to 30 minute sell-outs and being able to pocket the money likely set aside for storage) with her. And this was a conscious decision on Mattel's part to do this; they know the sub numbers and the numbers needed for returns, so they chose not to make any extra for day of. And "at least we know they aren't empty threats" is EXACTLY why it was done, and with this particular figure. Scrimping on a figure that wasn't looking too popular doesn't make the point. Holding back on a sure-fire big seller like Ram Man or Jitsu would be foolish even by Mattel's standards (imagine the backlash if there were no Rammys on the site this month, making people miss one of the most requested characters in the line) . But Fangy is the perfect caveman's club to use on the fans. He's popular enough to make many regret not being able to purchase him, but not so popular as to cause an outright rebellion among their customers.

If the purpose is strong-arming us with an eye toward August, Fang Man couldn't be a more perfect patsy to scare the populace with. I truly think it will have the opposite effect they want, though, and it should have been obvious to them if they've been paying any attention the past few years. Veiled (or in many case, clearly unveiled) threats have done nothing to increase sales, as I stated before. This tactic is so blatant Ram Man would be able to figure it out, and it will do nothing more than further sour the already bad tasting relationship Mattel has fostered with their fans. Humans tend to be stubborn creatures by nature, and they get even more so when someone is so obviously trying to manipulate them. This has been a losing strategy for Matty and this line for a while. Still, Mattel and TG stick to it doggedly, kind of like the captain of the Titanic telling the crew the boat can't possibly sink while standing chest deep in salt water...

"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman

Who would have known that all the people who only want to pick and choose characters that they want, would all want the one character they cant have? Irony.

No irony at all. I'm a cherry-picker. I don't want Fang Man, and wouldn't be buying him even if he was available DOS. But I'm still upset by this manipulative move Mattel is pulling. It sets a very, very bad precedent and will not achieve what Scott thinks it will.

I feel like I have to say I'm a subber (since Day One in 2008) but I don't think eliminating DOS for Fang-Man will be a popular or successful move for Mattel. It's like we have to reveal our party affiliation before speaking at a political rally! :P

I agree with all who have said this is a blatant scare tactic to try and increase sub sales, especially the 2014 sales. That said, I can also completely understand Mattel's intention to make this a sub-only line. Easier for them to mail stuff out every month, they sell a more even number of all figures, we get locked in financially, etc, etc, but that will of course rub a lot of folks the wrong way. There will always be MOTU fans who either refuse to buy a sub because of figures they do not want or cannot buy a sub because the financial burden is too great. It is the second group I sympathize with the most.

If Mattel is going to limit Fang-Man and do other things to scare up interest in the 2014 sub, then they should also reveal the ENTIRE 2014 sub line-up all at once sometime this fall.

"We're going to force everyone into a sub, but at least you'll know what you're getting!" I'd be very curious to see how that played out.

If the purpose is strong-arming us with an eye toward August, Fang Man couldn't be a more perfect patsy to scare the populace with. I truly think it will have the opposite effect they want, though, and it should have been obvious to them if they've been paying any attention the past few years. Veiled (or in many case, clearly unveiled) threats have done nothing to increase sales, as I stated before. This tactic is so blatant Ram Man would be able to figure it out, and it will do nothing more than further sour the already bad tasting relationship Mattel has fostered with their fans. Humans tend to be stubborn creatures by nature, and they get even more so when someone is so obviously trying to manipulate them. This has been a losing strategy for Matty and this line for a while. Still, Mattel and TG stick to it doggedly, kind of like the captain of the Titanic telling the crew the boat can't possibly sink while standing chest deep in salt water...

I'm half expecting 2014 to be subscribers only now.

You really got to hand it to Scott, in a couple of days he succeeded to swing the mood from excitement to doom and gloom again.

"A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His word speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked."

The subs were ended so that they had the numbers for production from January on. Netossa was most likely the first figure struck by the reduced sales of the sub, and enough of her was made to allow for day of sales, despite the lukewarm reception she got when she was revealed. Fang Man got a better reception, and Mattel believes that the Filmation characters are popular enough to base a separate sub on, so what possible logic could be used to justify making less of him than Netossa? There should have been far more concerns about storage (which is not an unexpected expense; figures were supposed to be available until the next one came up for sale until Mattel got used to 30 minute sell-outs and being able to pocket the money likely set aside for storage) with her. And this was a conscious decision on Mattel's part to do this; they know the sub numbers and the numbers needed for returns, so they chose not to make any extra for day of. And "at least we know they aren't empty threats" is EXACTLY why it was done, and with this particular figure. Scrimping on a figure that wasn't looking too popular doesn't make the point. Holding back on a sure-fire big seller like Ram Man or Jitsu would be foolish even by Mattel's standards (imagine the backlash if there were no Rammys on the site this month, making people miss one of the most requested characters in the line) . But Fangy is the perfect caveman's club to use on the fans. He's popular enough to make many regret not being able to purchase him, but not so popular as to cause an outright rebellion among their customers.

If the purpose is strong-arming us with an eye toward August, Fang Man couldn't be a more perfect patsy to scare the populace with. I truly think it will have the opposite effect they want, though, and it should have been obvious to them if they've been paying any attention the past few years. Veiled (or in many case, clearly unveiled) threats have done nothing to increase sales, as I stated before. This tactic is so blatant Ram Man would be able to figure it out, and it will do nothing more than further sour the already bad tasting relationship Mattel has fostered with their fans. Humans tend to be stubborn creatures by nature, and they get even more so when someone is so obviously trying to manipulate them. This has been a losing strategy for Matty and this line for a while. Still, Mattel and TG stick to it doggedly, kind of like the captain of the Titanic telling the crew the boat can't possibly sink while standing chest deep in salt water...

Couldn't have stated it better. This will be my last post on the matter. I understand that the line needs subs to survive, but the bullying tactics are going to eventually backfire in a very big way.

For me it's pretty simple. If you want the line to continue, and love the property, get a sub. Not only is it the only way to ensure that Matty keeps making MOTUC figures, but it's the only way to ensure that *you* get those figures. Sure, some you'll like better than others, or maybe not at all. But can you honestly tell me that it wasn't worth getting Netossa so you could get Ram Man, Jitsu, and Mantenna?

For me it's pretty simple. If you want the line to continue, and love the property, get a sub. Not only is it the only way to ensure that Matty keeps making MOTUC figures, but it's the only way to ensure that *you* get those figures. Sure, some you'll like better than others, or maybe not at all. But can you honestly tell me that it wasn't worth getting Netossa so you could get Ram Man, Jitsu, and Mantenna?

You seem to be implying that if the line dies, the fault lies with non-subscribers. Mattel has trained you well. Don't bother looking behind the curtain, where you'll see QC issues, rising prices, insane shipping costs, bad customer service, or even Mattel's subscription-or-die business model. Because, as everyone knows, there's absolutely no other options available to Mattel that would make the line thrive.

You seem to be implying that if the line dies, the fault lies with non-subscribers. Mattel has trained you well. Don't bother looking behind the curtain, where you'll see QC issues, rising prices, insane shipping costs, bad customer service, or even Mattel's subscription-or-die business model. Because, as everyone knows, there's absolutely no other options available to Mattel that would make the line thrive.

I'm not implying anything. Mattel makes this line and sets the rules. Either abide by their rules, or don't collect the line. I'd be saying this whether it was Hasbro, NECA, or any other company. If you love the product, then why not sub? And until this year, I *was* a non-subber. I remember the 3 minute sell outs. How is that any different than what's going on with Fang Man? I'm in no way a Mattel apologist, but I, along with many others I'm sure, have been buying toys for a long, long time. QC happens. Prices increase. I can remember getting Marvel Legends and DC Universe figures for less than $10. Now they're almost $20. When this line started, Matty offered the figures up for sale. It became so popular, that the figures were selling out within minutes, so Matty offered us another option: the subscription. Now here we are at year 5 and the only way they can keep the line afloat is through subscriptions. My buddy and I subbed after SDCC last year because TG had said there's going to be less day of stock, if any at all. That's all it took. We were both tired of the 3-5 minute sellouts and possibly not getting characters/figures we wanted. That's all I'm saying. Don't turn a blind eye to Mattel's imperfections, but don't demonize them either. They're the reason we're collecting this line to begin with, and we're going to tell them how to run their business? I'm sorry, but that's not the way it works.

Common sense i don't think is valid in a contract, they should specify some sort of things. Luckily we are talking about toys and no one could ever dream to take this legally serious.

I think that they can't do that, because they should have printed Fang man in little stock that is almost entirely covered by subscrition quota. They can't print many Fang man as Ram man or Jitsu, because is a low requested character and the can't permit anymore unsold leftovers.

Early Access isn't for Fang Man anyway, he's a sub figure, sub figures are not available in Early Access, only non sub items.

But I'm sure in some legal loophole it being implied is enough for it to be legal, and the fact that Scott has said it won't be until July would back it up....it is a multi-million dollar corporation, if it was something they needed to worry about, it would have been addressed. Simply stating that your sub doesn't kick in until the first figure ships, would be all the legal implication they needed.

well there is so much back and forth here.. but it really comes down to this... Matty explained this to us all for weeks/months when the subscriptions were being posted up to purchase and you had plenty of time to make your choice, as they say... you make your bed, lay in it.

i really feel bad for all the non-subbers that are not able to grab him day of, but you had your chance like the rest of us to sub up and you decided not to, for what ever reason.. being QC, being price, being whatever. it comes down to this Mattel is in this game to Make Money!!! and if this is a way to entice customers to sub up.. ie scare tactic then they will do it, If you want these figures at cost. they sub up..
it's funny we all yell and bark at Matty .. but no one says anything about sellers jumping on this wagon and selling the figures ie Fang man , Fisto Teela for 150+ dollars.. we live in a world of greed and blood suckers.. just be sure to carry to bug off

I'm not implying anything. Mattel makes this line and sets the rules. Either abide by their rules, or don't collect the line. I'd be saying this whether it was Hasbro, NECA, or any other company. If you love the product, then why not sub? And until this year, I *was* a non-subber. I remember the 3 minute sell outs. How is that any different than what's going on with Fang Man? I'm in no way a Mattel apologist, but I, along with many others I'm sure, have been buying toys for a long, long time. QC happens. Prices increase. I can remember getting Marvel Legends and DC Universe figures for less than $10. Now they're almost $20. When this line started, Matty offered the figures up for sale. It became so popular, that the figures were selling out within minutes, so Matty offered us another option: the subscription. Now here we are at year 5 and the only way they can keep the line afloat is through subscriptions. My buddy and I subbed after SDCC last year because TG had said there's going to be less day of stock, if any at all. That's all it took. We were both tired of the 3-5 minute sellouts and possibly not getting characters/figures we wanted. That's all I'm saying. Don't turn a blind eye to Mattel's imperfections, but don't demonize them either. They're the reason we're collecting this line to begin with, and we're going to tell them how to run their business? I'm sorry, but that's not the way it works.

People don't sub because they don't have need for every single figure that comes out, as a once non subber, you should know that. Other than that people can't afford every figure. No one should feel as though they need to have a contract to collect toys, or be made to feel like your money is not wanted thus meaning you are not wanted to buy their toys. Being *******s is not a good way to keep business. The subscription model was a stupid one t begin with, and now that it is buy or get the **** out, that is a hugely gross mistake, because alienating pickers when you almost failed in the sub this year, will not get those pickers in 2014, especially pulling this **** in February.... This will alienate non subbers and make them just walk away from the line period, even if they would have been 2014 subscribers. I don't believe I'll be subbing again for 2014, I Only need 2 figures and a vehicle, which I know they won't make....and I can get those from BBTS....if the line even happens, and if they even get made. I'll go back to a line and company that's happy to have a picker, and take my money.

brother.. your points are valid for sure.... but just remember this is a small online toy movement for collectors, and Matty doesn't want to be stuck with product they can't move. It's not like a retail store that buys 1 million worth of goods and if they can't sell it it's on them.. all this product is with Matty and they want it moved out!!! so in order for them to keep their margins good and move product they need that contract with a customer that they are buying a full years run of toys.. i know it's not the best idea but really economically it's the best for Matty.

Originally Posted by shadowfall1976

People don't sub because they don't have need for every single figure that comes out, as a once non subber, you should know that. Other than that people can't afford every figure. No one should feel as though they need to have a contract to collect toys, or be made to feel like your money is not wanted thus meaning you are not wanted to buy their toys. Being *******s is not a good way to keep business. The subscription model was a stupid one t begin with, and now that it is buy or get the **** out, that is a hugely gross mistake, because alienating pickers when you almost failed in the sub this year, will not get those pickers in 2014, especially pulling this **** in February.... This will alienate non subbers and make them just walk away from the line period, even if they would have been 2014 subscribers. I don't believe I'll be subbing again for 2014, I Only need 2 figures and a vehicle, which I know they won't make....and I can get those from BBTS....if the line even happens, and if they even get made. I'll go back to a line and company that's happy to have a picker, and take my money.

I'm not implying anything. Mattel makes this line and sets the rules. Either abide by their rules, or don't collect the line.

And herein lies the crux of the problem: Mattel's rules. Take a look at the info below my avatar. I've been on these boards for THIRTEEN FREAKING YEARS. I weathered the storm that was collecting MOTU 200x. I am EXACTLY the kind of die-hard, dedicated fan that Mattel ought to be catering to. Instead, Mattel seems to want to alienate me. It should say something to all who keep saying "subscribe or shut up" when a proven dedicated fan like me is turned off by Mattel's strong-arming.

Another thing that a lot of you keep forgetting too is that when MOTUC was established, ALL of us were cherry-pickers. The sub was supposed to be set up as a convenience for those who didn't want to go through the hassle of day-of sales since they knew they wanted everything. If it wasn't for the success of those early day-of-sales-only months, the line wouldn't be here now. But because Mattel turned that convenience into a mandate, people like me (who don't sub) don't get a say. That's hypocritical.

The Fighting Foe Men better NOT have any DOS either, so folks can offload those much easier!

THIS is genius thinking!

Originally Posted by Kowl

I kind of wish all the figures were subscription only personally.

This train of thought makes me think that they're less about scare tactics and more about being realistic. They could easily just tell you to "get a sub or get nothing" if Scott and Mattel are the evil conglomerate some people paint them as. And who knows, maybe they will someday. Might help sell more subs to resellers, as they are the go to source for pickers now.

Originally Posted by Nemisythe

Now the Battle for Strobo begins!!!

I KNOW! With EVERYBODY (the majority now anyways) being a subscriber, this is basically back to the old RSOD days, only, for everybody!

Originally Posted by Gama

My. God.
After the great weekend of news Scott goes all North Korean on us

Just had to quote that because it was hilarious.

Originally Posted by JonWes

I don't see where I'm showing a lack of sympathy. Quite the opposite…

I agree, speak your mind, this is the place for it. I wouldn't mind a Ferrari! This one in fact. Love that 80's rally look. I had a micro machine that was turquoise. So hot.

By the way, this thread grew at least 4 pages (probably more now) while I'm bumbling around at work, I'll catch up in just a sec.

I don't know why people keep calling this a scare tactic. Sure, it would be a scare tactic if Mattel said there might not be any day of sales stock to get us to buy a sub and it never happens. But guess what? 3 months into the 2013 sub, and it happens, so it's no longer it a threat. It's gonna happen in March and could possibly happen again in the future. And as most people have pointed out, it will most likely happen with Octavia, by coincidence of course, making all original Filmation characters since Shadow Weaver as sub exclusives. However, what ever happen to that whole notion of making more figure by throwing up the switch. You think they'd have enough time to at least push out an extra 100 figs for DOS.

As for the early access, I am so excited for Strobo. I think the figure turned out great, but wish he came with his gun instead of the meteor and stand. However, the best part of Strobo, for me at least, is Zodak's 2nd head. Can't believe we got Zodak in Oct 2009 and we're finally get his helmet-less head 3 years 5 months later. It was worth the wait and will definitely be my default look for Zodak. Funny thing is, I remember when we were asking for head packs and are request was denied, it was also suggested that Mattel would pack other missing heads with other figures and that was turned down. Now, we're getting Zodak's head with Strobo just like when we got Alcala Skeletor head with Demo-Man. It's always good to see things go through after we've been told it wouldn't happen for whatever reason (see Castle Grayskull...)

THis is no different thatn every other toy line...a group of figures is produced and a popular one is always short packed one per box...If Fang Man had a day of amount to sell it would be low and he would be a 3 minute figure...again. Would that make people happy? NO.

Since TG has said this morning on Mattycollector that some Filmation sub figures may not see DOS...I think we will see less DOS figures available going forward in both subs in 2013...and if the figures are more limited....selling them after is going to be a easier. I haven't had any trouble selling off a figure from the sub I didn't want to keep.