Reference Material

Disclaimer, Copyright

The U.S.S. Mariner is in no way affiliated with, condoned or given any notice by the Seattle Mariners baseball team, who have their own website. Similarly, we have no association with the ownership group or any businesses related to the Mariners. All article text is written by the authors, all pictures are taken by the authors, who retain copyright to their works. No copying or reproduction of any content here, photographic or otherwise, is authorized. Please email us if you wish to reproduce our work.

Game 28, Rays at Mariners

Not sure why I have never brought up Jeff Niemann as a comp when people ask about other pitchers like Doug Fister, but he’s basically the Rays version. He’s a massive 6’9 guy without great stuff, though his fastball is a few notches better than Fister’s. Don’t worry about the 2.76 ERA and think he’s developing into an ace – his 4.89 xFIP is more along the lines of his true talent level. He throws strikes, but lacks an out pitch, and is the kind of guy the M’s could potentially hit. Maybe.

At this point, it might be like shooting yourself in the foot so you don’t have to go over the wall, Gallipoli-style.

BUT…that play’s a good example why I don’t buy into the “why didn’t he dive for it?” comments I often read on here. Sometimes it makes sense to dive…but most times the smarter play is NOT to…

MrZDevotee on
May 6th, 2010 9:34 pm

Wow- I just saw something I’ve never seen before. On that end of inning pop up, Ichiro didn’t bother to back up Figgins on the play, he was actually halfway off the field, headed to the dugout, while the ball was still in the air.

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 9:35 pm

Well, since Dave Niehaus has been known to go on musical tangents during otherwise-boring blowouts, let me give it a whirl here:

“From the compass rose cap on the top of ol’ Bret to the heel of his cleated shoes…the rippinest, roarinest, slugginest man the Northwest ever knew…

Bret Boone was a man…was a big man…and he fought for the Mariners to make all the Mariners free!” 🙂

MrZDevotee on
May 6th, 2010 9:38 pm

MarinersMan–
You mean the Ryan Garko who’s 2 for 27 with a -41 OPS+? Yeah, he would fit right in with the DH platoon without anyone noticing.

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 9:40 pm

Wow- I just saw something I’ve never seen before. On that end of inning pop up, Ichiro didn’t bother to back up Figgins on the play, he was actually halfway off the field, headed to the dugout, while the ball was still in the air.

Wow! I’m listening on the radio, so I didn’t get a chance to see that…but if Ichiro is starting to give up on this team, I seriously don’t know what to think.

MrZDevotee on
May 6th, 2010 9:44 pm

Per the announcers just now–

“Outscored 21 to 5 so far by Tampa Bay…”

(Gulp)

Now what?!

DrunkenSailor75 on
May 6th, 2010 9:49 pm

While we’re piling it on, does anyone else think Dave Simms is a horrible play-by-play guy? His voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

MrZDevotee on
May 6th, 2010 9:50 pm

Watching Tampa they seem to be everything we hoped to be coming into the season (without the elderly DH tandem)… And seem to be creating their own “luck”, whereas nothing seems to be going our way. Balls are falling between fielders for the Rays, or every hit is two or three feet inside the foul line for extra bases, a ball six inches inside is called a strike, when it would have forced in a run…

They (Tampa) remind me of the 2001 Mariners. You can just sense that things are going their way, and that every game is winnable. It’s hard to watch when the M’s are the exact opposite so far this season.

Perhaps in two to three years this is what our team will look like?

We can hope, anyways.

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 9:50 pm

Well, I guess we have the OC Angels coming in to get off the schnide at our expense to look forward to…grrrrr.

henryv on
May 6th, 2010 9:53 pm

They (Tampa) remind me of the 2001 Mariners. You can just sense that things are going their way, and that every game is winnable.

This is true for every team that plays the M’s. It’s easy to think you can win when the other team can’t score any “runs”.

Paul L on
May 6th, 2010 9:54 pm

Now what?!

I have to say, at this point I’m resigned to our fate. We made several high-risk/medium-to-high-reward bets this offseason, and so far none of them have panned out. Sure, revert to the mean, blah, blah, blah, but the fact of the matter is that we’re just not that good.

I almost don’t want to be in the thick of things, because the whole “we’re only x games out of first!” is misleading; if we somehow made the playoffs we’d get creamed by whatever team we faced.

This is year two of a multi-year rebuilding effort, and when we get good again the locks to be on that team are Gutierrez and Felix.

Wait ’til next year.

henryv on
May 6th, 2010 9:55 pm

At this point I’d rather have oral surgery than watch another M’s game. At least the surgery won’t end with deep psychological damage.

TomTuttle on
May 6th, 2010 9:57 pm

Wow! I’m listening on the radio, so I didn’t get a chance to see that…but if Ichiro is starting to give up on this team, I seriously don’t know what to think.

It’s so hard to tell at this point if Ichiro is starting to show his age or any kind of disinterested just because he plays the game in the same, robotic fashion every night.

And with Griffey likely out of the picture next year, I seriously think the Mariners should AT LEAST take fliers for him in the trade market.

Yes, the team is owned by a Japanese based company.

But it’s not like Ichiro is making this team a TON OF MONEY right now if you are drawing 15,000 a night with the best team in the AL in town.

If the Mariners want fans to come back to the ballpark, they have to win. And even though trades for superstars don’t usually (in fact, rarely) produce equal value in return, keep this in mind too.

There is only ONE trade-able player on this team right now that could return significant value (Cliff Lee).

Who knows what reinforcements this team will get from AAA in the next couple years and who knows how many top notch free agents we can realistically expect to grab in future years without Yankee, Red Sox or Dodger money.

I know it would hurt the casual fans in this town to not see Ichiro in a Mariners uniform, but personally, I’d rather build to be a World Series team.

And plus, the Mariners won 116 games (albeit in a fluke manner) in 2001 without Randy Johnson, Junior, and A-Rod and won 93 games the 2 years after that.

It could survive a Ichiro trade and it’s time to at least start having the conversation.

MrZDevotee on
May 6th, 2010 9:58 pm

Henry,
And you get to be on pain killers while you suffer through that. Goodnight all.

Probably wait until 2012. Short of signing a handful of good free agents, this team doesn’t have a ton coming in next year to be really pumped up about. The organization doesn’t really have a catcher, or a top-notch prospect in Tacoma.

Paul L on
May 6th, 2010 10:01 pm

I think the goal for this year is to acquire someone that is a long-term improvement over what we’re sending out there today.

My one issue with the offseason is that we didn’t add any building blocks, but instead went more for a patchwork approach, hoping it would buy us another year of seasoning our minor league prospects.

Unless you count Cliff Lee, in which case I have to ask: did mgmt really think he’d sign with us? If so, that was a serious mistake; it was obvious before he even flew out for the press conference that he wasn’t happy about coming here (due to the location, not the organization).

It could survive a Ichiro trade and it’s time to at least start having the conversation.

I suppose the gentle way of saying this is to suggest that this may not be our best option as a club to improve our team. Smart clubs rarely trade away blue chip HOF baseball players, and when they do, the returns are usually laughable.

That’s the gentle way of saying it.

David on
May 6th, 2010 10:01 pm

Griffey to Mariners management: “I need your help.”

Paul L on
May 6th, 2010 10:02 pm

Probably wait until 2012

Probably.

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 10:02 pm

Probably wait until 2012.

Yeah…when the Mayan prediction of Doomsday comes true, I guess we’ll no longer have to worry about the Mariners’ chronic suckitude.

I don’t want to trade Ichiro becuase he’s my favorite player and I need some reason to go to games, but it’s not a crazy discussion to have about a 36-year-old if you don’t think the team is close to contending.

Paul L on
May 6th, 2010 10:12 pm

Ichiro puts butts in the seats!

Then again, from Larry Stone on Twitter:

Attendance tonight at Safeco — 17, 617. That’s the largest crowd of the series.

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 10:13 pm

Oops, guess I forgot the line before that:

“Any way you look at it, you lose!”

illdonk on
May 6th, 2010 10:15 pm

Speaking of attendance, how many others out there aren’t attending games because of their current woes? Went to last Friday’s game and was so frustrated I cancelled tentative plans for Sunday’s and couldn’t bring myself to go tonight.

TomTuttle on
May 6th, 2010 10:15 pm

I don’t want to trade Ichiro becuase he’s my favorite player and I need some reason to go to games, but it’s not a crazy discussion to have about a 36-year-old if you don’t think the team is close to contending.

Ichiro is not really 36. Hes more like 31 🙂 So it would be a crazy discussion to have.

Dave Spiwak on
May 6th, 2010 10:24 pm

Wake me up in 2015 – when Charlie Whitehurst wins the MVP and the Seattle Kings are in the playoffs and everyone’s talking about the Felix – Bryce Harper battery!

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 10:50 pm

Not to sound far-fetched here…but I seriously hope that we’re not seeing the beginning of the end to baseball as we know it in this region. I mean, think about it…even in the best of times (i.e. when the team is both drawing and playing well), the big-network media hacks hate this city — if, for no other reason, than the NY-LA mindset is that there’s absolutely no civilization north of San Francisco to be had in the first place. Compound that with the penchant of professional sports leagues to expand/relo/prop up franchises in markets where the fans could really care less to begin with — no matter how well the team’s playing (i.e. Miami, Phoenix)…and, a string of losing seasons due to whatever reason…and what do you have?

A recipe for disaster.

If this sounds loony, I just wonder how many of us would have imagined 10-12 years ago that the Sonics would not be playing here?

And, I’m wondering about the rumors I’ve heard of Spring Training possibly shifting to Florida in a few years when: 1) the M’s have never had ST out of Arizona that I can remember, & 2) every other team west of Houston has now moved their ST operations to the Cactus League (though some teams may wind up rethinking that, due to some current events there which I won’t get into).

I can’t help but think that a move to the Grapefruit League might be a signal to something far more drastic down the line…

I hope I’m wrong.

TomTuttle on
May 6th, 2010 11:00 pm

Not to sound far-fetched here…but I seriously hope that we’re not seeing the beginning of the end to baseball as we know it in this region. I mean, think about it…even in the best of times (i.e. when the team is both drawing and playing well), the big-network media hacks hate this city — if, for no other reason, than the NY-LA mindset is that there’s absolutely no civilization north of San Francisco to be had in the first place. Compound that with the penchant of professional sports leagues to expand/relo/prop up franchises in markets where the fans could really care less to begin with — no matter how well the team’s playing (i.e. Miami, Phoenix)…and, a string of losing seasons due to whatever reason…and what do you have?

A recipe for disaster.

If this sounds loony, I just wonder how many of us would have imagined 10-12 years ago that the Sonics would not be playing here?

And, I’m wondering about the rumors I’ve heard of Spring Training possibly shifting to Florida in a few years when: 1) the M’s have never had ST out of Arizona that I can remember, & 2) every other team west of Houston has now moved their ST operations to the Cactus League (though some teams may wind up rethinking that, due to some current events there which I won’t get into).

I can’t help but think that a move to the Grapefruit League might be a signal to something far more drastic down the line…

I hope I’m wrong.

The Mariners got their downtown stadium in a sweetheart deal thanks to the ’95 run whereas the Sonics were playing in an antiquated (as it turned out) Key Arena in a bad location. Don’t worry about it.

If you are going to move the Mariners, go ahead and move the Pirates, Orioles, Royals, etc.

Let’s just worry about the Mariners winning again soon with Z and Wak.

And as far as Spring Training goes, if Arizona isn’t a viable option because of their short sided laws, then an exodus of western teams would probably start a new Spring Training league in some place like Vegas or So. California.

scott19 on
May 6th, 2010 11:20 pm

Wake me up in 2015 – when Charlie Whitehurst wins the MVP and the Seattle Kings are in the playoffs and everyone’s talking about the Felix – Bryce Harper battery!

Despite my rather apocalyptic previous post, I like this scenario much better…

Though let me just add to that list then-NHL scoring leader Steve Stamkos leading the Seattle Lightning into the Stanley Cup playoffs — in the same shiny new Staples-style arena where the Kings also play!

scott19 on
May 7th, 2010 12:04 am

The Mariners got their downtown stadium in a sweetheart deal thanks to the ‘95 run whereas the Sonics were playing in an antiquated (as it turned out) Key Arena in a bad location. Don’t worry about it.
If you are going to move the Mariners, go ahead and move the Pirates, Orioles, Royals, etc.
Let’s just worry about the Mariners winning again soon with Z and Wak.
And as far as Spring Training goes, if Arizona isn’t a viable option because of their short sided laws, then an exodus of western teams would probably start a new Spring Training league in some place like Vegas or So. California.

Tom —

Didn’t really mean to be too apocalyptic there…you just never know the way things work in regard to the “viability of sports markets” these days.

On your points:

1) As for the Safe and Qwest, I’ve a feeling both will be there for a good, long time. Despite what the detractors had felt about these facilities being built in the first place, there’s no doubt they’ve revitalized SoDo — and the Qwest Events Center has probably been even more cost-effective, since there’s always concerts/trade shows/etc. going on there. If a new NBA/NHL-capable arena is ever built here, this neighborhood should at be at the top of the list due to its central location and easy access to freeways and transit.

2) I agree — I think any of those would be candidates to get moved elsewhere first.

3) Amen to that — and I know neither of them will let this go on for too long.

& 4) If teams wind up eventually moving out of Arizona on account of that issue, I could easily see either Vegas or So-Cal as an option. Actually, I’m surprised Vegas isn’t already a ST site…they’ve been doing the “Major League Weekend” at Cashman Field toward the end of March for years now…and if you moved enough teams into that area to do a ST schedule, they wouldn’t have to be on the road constantly. As for Cali…with all the teams that play in that state, I’m surprised they’re not just doing their ST there — seeing as though the climate is so *harsh* in the winter to begin with (/snark)!