Conversationalist

Not every friend you have will be with you forever, but you don’t necessarily lose those friends because they wronged you or because you wronged them. Sometimes you just grow apart. But until then, you do grow up and share fun times together.

Yeah but see here’s the thing Verbs. You’re not growing apart from this friend. You’re sticking them in a virtual holding pen.

Pokémon Master

Return is a fantastic move. 102 power and 100 accuracy is phenomenal, and the fact that every Pokemon that can learn TMs can learn it is a bonus. Return is almost a necessity for any physically-based Normal types (which is most of them). Snorlax, Mega Kangaskhan, Diggersby, and Ambipom are just a few examples of Pokemon which almost always use Return. It’s even useful on non-Normal types as a coverage move, such as Azumarill, Klinklang, and even Gyarados occasionally.

In short, you can’t go wrong with Return, and it’s a fine choice on any physical moveset.

There is no misinformation in his post. His post is helpful and accurate, and he even gave a detailed and relatively unbiased analysis and breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of Return. It’s like you didn’t read his post at all.

I agree with you in that Return is pretty good for Normal-types, but that’s as far as I go. I prefer Body Slam on Snorlax because of the high paralysis chance, but that doesn’t mean Return is a bad choice. That’s just preference. Mega Kangaskhan is godly with Return. I’d say Return is one of the best moves for physical Normal-types based on it’s terrifyingly high power when combined with STAB and the huge availability of the move due to it’s nature as a TM with a very wide compatibility range.

However, I absolutely must disagree that Return makes a good coverage move. The whole point of a coverage move is that it helps you check a variety of types. Normal moves are not super effective against anything at all, resisted by several types, and completely nullified by Ghost-types, making them absolutely horrible coverage moves. The worst in the game, as a matter of fact. Best case scenario is that it’s a neutral versatility move, and that’s a pretty bad best case scenario.

The Pokemon you’re using would have to have a piss poor movepool in order to justify using Return over something else if it doesn’t get STAB. The 102 power and 100 accuracy doesn’t mean anything at all when compared to a move that can hit something super effectively. A Pokemon not having STAB on Return means that it will always just have 102 base power, which, when compared to STAB 151 power or double power from super effective, is lackluster. It just becomes a rather bland, average move with no real strengths, but many weaknesses.

Also, you wouldn’t catch me dead using Return on an Azumarill or Gyarados set. Gyarados has a wide enough movepool that you should never have to use Return, and Azumarill is too specialized to make efficient use of Return without suffering for his low speed. I’ve never personally raised a Klinklang, though, so I won’t say anything concrete about him other than he’s not a Normal-type, and that’s usually reason enough to shy away from Return. Who knows, though? I don’t know at all what Klinklang’s movepool is like, so Return might be a viable choice solely based on there being nothing else available.

Conversationalist

There is no misinformation in his post. His post is helpful and accurate, and he even gave a detailed and relatively unbiased analysis and breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of Return. It’s like you didn’t read his post at all.

I agree with you in that Return is pretty good for Normal-types, but that’s as far as I go. I prefer Body Slam on Snorlax because of the high paralysis chance, but that doesn’t mean Return is a bad choice. That’s just preference. Mega Kangaskhan is godly with Return. I’d say Return is one of the best moves for physical Normal-types based on it’s terrifyingly high power when combined with STAB and the huge availability of the move due to it’s nature as a TM with a very wide compatibility range.

However, I absolutely must disagree that Return makes a good coverage move. The whole point of a coverage move is that it helps you check a variety of types. Normal moves are not super effective against anything at all, resisted by several types, and completely nullified by Ghost-types, making them absolutely horrible coverage moves. The worst in the game, as a matter of fact. Best case scenario is that it’s a neutral versatility move, and that’s a pretty bad best case scenario.

The Pokemon you’re using would have to have a piss poor movepool in order to justify using Return over something else if it doesn’t get STAB. The 102 power and 100 accuracy doesn’t mean anything at all when compared to a move that can hit something super effectively. A Pokemon not having STAB on Return means that it will always just have 102 base power, which, when compared to STAB 151 power or double power from super effective, is lackluster. It just becomes a rather bland, average move with no real strengths, but many weaknesses.

Also, you wouldn’t catch me dead using Return on an Azumarill or Gyarados set. Gyarados has a wide enough movepool that you should never have to use Return, and Azumarill is too specialized to make efficient use of Return without suffering for his low speed. I’ve never personally raised a Klinklang, though, so I won’t say anything concrete about him other than he’s not a Normal-type, and that’s usually reason enough to shy away from Return. Who knows, though? I don’t know at all what Klinklang’s movepool is like, so Return might be a viable choice solely based on there being nothing else available.

The whole point of a coverage move is that it helps you check a variety of types.

Sometimes. Often, coverage moves are used in order to gain neutral coverage. Water + Normal gets very good neutral coverage, which is why Azumarill sometimes uses Return or Double Edge on a Choice Band set. Gyarados only rarely uses Return, but it still does occasionally, so I listed it. Klinklang only has three usable physical moves (Gear Grind, Wild Charge, and Return), so it’s forced to use Return.

Pokémon Master

The whole point of a coverage move is that it helps you check a variety of types.

Sometimes. Often, coverage moves are used in order to gain neutral coverage. Water + Normal gets very good neutral coverage, which is why Azumarill sometimes uses Return or Double Edge on a Choice Band set. Gyarados only rarely uses Return, but it still does occasionally, so I listed it. Klinklang only has three usable physical moves (Gear Grind, Wild Charge, and Return), so it’s forced to use Return.

Heh, now I remember about him on Smogon. They really don’t like him much. Poor Klinklang.

I really do like Steel-types, if my profile is any indication, but Klinklang is in a sore spot.

Anyways, this only really reinforces my original point in that Normal-type moves in general are bad news. Return is usually only taken when there are absolutely no other options.

From what I understand:

Azumarill uses it because it has a relatively poor variety in move types to take advantage of neutral coverage. It can’t overcome, so it’s best bet is to just break even.

Gyarados rarely uses it. Can you explain this a little, for my own benefit? I can’t fathom why a Gyarados would use Return (or any Normal-type move, really) with it’s great movepool.

Klinklang takes it out of desperation.

If it’s only taken to cover a Pokemon’s lack of variety, that doesn’t mean it’s a good move in and of itself. It’s a good Normal-type move, sure, but Normal-type moves are inherently bad because Nintendo hates Normal-types almost as much as they’ve hated Poison-types for five generations.

I guess my ultimate point (because my fucking thoughts are all over the damn place) is that Return is not a good general use move. No Normal-type move is (except Boomburst). It’s not a move you can just slap on any old Pokemon and call it a day. The Pokemon in question should be able to make good use of it over a different move. It’s kind of low on the “This move vs. that move” totem pole.

Pokémon Master

Conversationalist

I’m trying to complete the National Dex, and I’m able to get several legendaries through the GTS, but I just recently learned that the GTS will no longer trade event exclusive Pokémon. While I do have some of them, others I never was able to get in the past and only was able to use the Action Replay in order to get them. Well now I’m playing the right way, and there’s only three event exclusive Pokémon I still haven’t got are Mew, Jirachi and Shaymin. If anyone has those to trade, I’ll be willing to trade with an event exclusive Pokémon I have more than one of, which include Celebi, Manaphy and Victini. Contact me if you’re able to do this.

Conversationalist

Not every friend you have will be with you forever, but you don’t necessarily lose those friends because they wronged you or because you wronged them. Sometimes you just grow apart. But until then, you do grow up and share fun times together.

Yeah but see here’s the thing Verbs. You’re not growing apart from this friend. You’re sticking them in a virtual holding pen.

Correction, a holding pen with blackjack and… Erm… Companions.

In theory, the PC “box” is either a virtual reality paradise simulated such to create absolute bliss… Or if we choose to believe the anime, its a representation of some ranch somewhere that for the most part allows the Pokemon to do what they want.

Either way, its technically a step up from “trapped in an empty featureless sphere for all eternity” that being in the “party” might be like if we go by… Certain theories as to the inside of a Pokeball… by which I mean “how both the manga and anime depicts it”.

… Heck, even if the “Box” is perceived as just an empty box with other Pokemon in it, its technically a step up. Though in theory it shouldn’t be just a box, since the effort needed to integrate Internet or TV into the system for the Pokemon to use for entertainment would be minimal.

In a sense… I suppose you could liken the PC Box to Valhalla, where “warriors wait in paradise until the end of days, where they will be needed to fight a war in the vein hope of saving the world”.

Pokémon Master

Forum Moderator

May I just say I absolutely adore the new gym leader/elite 4 designs. It seems they are sticking with the lighter clothing for warm/tropical weather like they did with the main character designs. I like it.

Commentator

Conversationalist

Mega Salamence almost looked like the most badass wyvern, but then I saw that they just shifted his front legs onto the middle of his body so that he could tuck them forward toward his head. One of my friends didn’t understand why that is silly, so I made him some visual aids.

Verbose

Deactivated

I was already catching people online off-guard with a Jolly Lopunny with Attack and Speed EV investments, Fake Out, Power-up Punch, and Return with Silk Scarf (and Magic Coat to catch Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave users.)

Adding Scrappy deals with the Gengar issues I had.

Having access to High Jump Kick (instead of just Jump Kick) along with the Fighting-type STAB gives it something to deal with Steel and Fighting types.

And, of course, you’ll get the standard +100 in Base Stats, which will likely be distributed to Attack and possibly to already very high 105 Base Speed.

Further, Power-up Punch will get STAB.

The typing and Speed also separates it from Mega Kangaskan which does a similar set.

In fact, Mega Lopunny would probably just flatten a Mega Kangaskan trying to do the same thing. Lopunny’s Fake out would be faster, so Kangaskan couldn’t use hers. And High Jump Kick would likely OHKO Kangaskan with the Fake out damage and the incoming 130 Base Power STAB to a Pokemon that’s weak to Fighting moves.

Outside of just liking Lopunny (i swaer im not furry tho), Lopunny has pretty decent Defensive stats (84 Defense, 96 Special Defense.) So if you’re not hitting really hard on the first turn, Fake Out and Power-up Punch have both hit you with a Pokemon that probably outspeeds you, has Silk Scarf, and a STAB 102 Base Power Return with +1 Attack.

It was a threat without the Mega Evolution. It might actually be dangerous with it.

And don’t even get me started on a Dragon that’s immune to Dragon-type moves. Also, it’s weak to Steel, Ice, and Poison-type moves. Those aren’t commonly-used attacking type. And Altaria already had good defensive stats (90 Defense, 105 Special Defense.)

Think about Roost on that that typing, defensively-oriented stats and Cotton Guard.

Neither may jump to Uber or OU, but who really cares? I think a lot of Pokemon are flat out avoided due to their specs. And so you end up seeing a lot of the same Pokemon in random online battles. Surely, not everyone likes the same Pokemon outside of their stats, typing, move sets, abilities, etc.

I mean what’s cooler than Corsola nothing.

So even if Mega Evolutions don’t make every pokemon a raw beast, they do make them fun options that are more reliable than gimmicks. Thank you, Game Freak.

Now y’all just need to get on that Mega Spinda.

While we’re at it, and if you’d like to talk about it (I talked about this with Owens,)

What does Spinda need in order to be generally usable but still be its own Pokemon? We thought that a new ability that confuses the opposing Pokemon whenever it enters battle would make sense for Spinda and would allow for it to delay or halt any sweep or buffing tank in an instant. But that ability couldn’t activate as soon as Intimidate or Mold Breaker, because that would just be game breaking. So perhaps at the end of the first turn or there being a decent chance that the opponent becomes confused while Spinda is in battle.

Or something that would take its bad Base Stats and amplify them (something like Pure/Huge Power or Fur Coat.)

Commentator

Conversationalist

NUDW-WWWW-WWW8-SSY3
I consider this my finest battle. Yeah sure, I myself used an Uber in Mega Blaziken, but let me ask you, is Mega Blaziken banned in official Tournaments?
Anywho, this is me owning the everloving shit out of this kid who was either a hacker or lucky enough to get some crazy trades, as he tried to fake me out using a friggin Diancie.
Also, I used a goddamn Aggron and Rhyperior. Two Pokes considered mediocre won me this match, with Aggron killing both Diancie AND Mew, and Rhyperior going toe-to-toe with a Xerneas and winning. I even used his Groudon against him and swept his team with Mega Blaziken as payback for using JUST legendaries!

Scrapbooker

Conversationalist

Well, I’ve come up with ways to make Pokemon nobody bothers to use ridiculously strong.

TorterraNature: ImpishStat Spread: 252 Def, 52 Atk, 200 HPMoveset: Curse, Amnesia, Wood Hammer/Iron Head/Earthquake/Stone Edge, SynthesisItem: Leftovers, Shell Bell, Life Orb
The unusual stat spread is designed to reap as many benefits as possible from Curse and Amnesia. I recommend using Amnesia first to make sure that when you scare your opponent into switching, you won’t be at a disadvantage when Torterra inevitably gets outsped. Also, if you know your opponent has either an ice or fire type to switch in, Stone Edge the hell out of them. Its always a nasty surprise. This set fits in incredibly with a Sun or Sand team, with Synthesis in a Sun team guaranteeing Torterra lasts much longer than it has any business doing.

FeraligatrNature: Adamant/JollyStat Spread: 200 Atk, 200 Defense, 104 Speed, 4 HPMoveset: Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Ice Punch, Crunch/Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Aqua Jet/OutrageItem: Leftovers, Expert Belt, Life Orb
Like every starter without a Mega or Protean, Feraligatr never sees much use, but the 6th Generation gave it an incredible tool; Dragon Dance and Ice Punch can now be in the same moveset without the need of a Move Tutor. If you can safely switch Feraligatr in or scare the opponent out, you can safely get off a Dragon Dance. I recommend you get off at least two or three to make sure Feraligatr only has to worry about Priority moves or Talonflame, which cannot do much to it anyway. An Expert Belt set with Feraligatr’s dangerous moveset is incredible; Feraligatr’s moveset is diverse enough to hit almost the entire OU roster for Super Effective damage, save for Normal Types. After maybe three dragon dances, it can become one of the best sweeper Starters, with its decent bulk, respectable HP, and overall very very VERY dangerous moveset, it is a crime that Feraligatr sees so little usage.

Forum Moderator

God dammit, this fucking ORAS sountrack is going to be the death of me. It’s just so good and so nostalgia fueling.

So, who has the game yet? I got it midnight release last night, pretty funny that my first midnight game release is for what is essentially a children’s game. I’m an adult I swear. What starters did you all choose? I chose mudkip because mudkip is love, mudkip is life.