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Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

LA is playing really well. I don't think there was anything our personnel could have done differently. They were on their game and have alot more talent. Hard to stop that. I wish they would have traded Kobe to Detroit.

What so we could get reamed 4 times a year by Kobe instead of 2? Count me in as one person who is very glad the Lakers are playing well and will hopefully keep him out west.

We're a fast break, run and gun, shooting team thats gonna give up points. At least they did one of those parts well tonight.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

I have a real serious question. I considered staring a new thread for this.

I have heard from many of you over the past couple of seasons that you can take losing if the team plays a wide open free wheeling offense. How many times have I had the Denver game from 4 seasons ago thrown in my face - the one where the Pacers won 72-72 and I made a big deal about how much I loved it.

Well is this better? Giving up 130 points. But the offense sure looked good

Unclebuck, no this isn't better. I'm one who has yanked your chain a few times, but I hope I've never said I'd accept "losing if the team plays a wide open" game. I want the Pacers to win.

I want the Pacers to be able to get stops when they need to. I want them to be able to protect a lead. I want them to be able to contest shots effectively and make the other team earn every point. But I'd rather see them win and score 100+ as opposed to see them win and score less than 80. I'd love the Pacers to consistently exceed the other team in rebounds, blocks and steals. I disagree with you about the other aspects of "good" defense. I suppose you'd like to see the other team blocked out and waste the 24 seconds without a shot, while I'd prefer them to take their shots and make a slightly lower percentage of them than the Pacers do.

And I hate the Pat Riley/Bruce Bowen aspects of defense. I hate the shoving and holding and elbowing.

I'm happier about this team than last years' team. It is good that they can score at a high clip. That alone is not enough, and the Pacers aren't going to be a very good team on just that. But explosive offensive potential is one good thing. Only one: there's still a lot wrong with the offense. But I'm happy knowing the Pacers can score.

And I won't be here to see the dayIt all dries up and blows awayI'd hang around just to seeBut they never had much use for meIn Levelland. (James McMurtry)

Daniels and Granger are the only consistent defenders. Shawne will be better once he gets more PT and understands each player he is defending. He simply has not played players like Pierce and Kobe to be considered a reliable defender against them.

JO has slighty better trade value than Chris Webber did with the Sixers. There is no team with the right pieces out there to trade and get what we need. It would be better if he opts out by taking a buyout. Bynum tore him apart on both ends. But to JO's credit if Farmar, Kobe, and Fisher did not blow past their so called defenders he would have been in better position to at least have a chance.

With Bynum the way he is now I still think that the Lakers are stupid for not using him in a trade for Jason Kidd. Kidd can rebound better than anyone on that team.

David Harrison needs to put two games back to back. If he is solid again then we may be able to use him in a trade with JO.

So far the Rush and Diener project is failing. It is just November and I can't see any reason why Diener got that long contract. I know he is injured, but it is ridicoulous how much he looked like Saras tonight.

I would like to see better defense coming off a long layoff. Tommorrow should be interesting since Tyson Chandler won't be playing. He tore us apart last year.

And interesting stat though.

We give up more points than any team not in Memphis or Oakland. We give up more points than any team in the East. What is even more sad is that when your take the average Points scored of all of our opponents it is lower than the points that we give up. By 6 points.

Our defense is the main reason why we are failing. It may come around but we do not have the players that can assure that. A backcourt shake up is needed if we want to make the playoffs. Which means we may have to give up Shawne or Danny to get that.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

With regards to JO, I think it's clear right now that you have to stick with him, hope he gets/stays healthy, and then reassess his trade value at that point. It would be a huge mistake to trade him now.

After watching the game last night, if Bynum was truly on the table, and Indy was holding out for Odom AND Bynum, I have to say that that was a bigtime mistake. Again, IF he was on the table, Pacers bras should have pulled the trigger.

As for the Bynum for Kidd trade, I think some don't realize that it was more than just Bynum. Kwame Brown and another player or two would have had to be included to make that deal work. So, having Kobe and Kidd would be nice, but do you really think that that team makes any serious noise at all in the western Conference with Brain Cook or Ronny Turiaf starting at center? I think not. To trade for Kidd, LA wouldn't have had any big men left.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

Our defense all around was HORRIBLE, especially on the perimeter. The Lakers looked like they were conducting some type of orchestra with their ball movement out there. And what they were doing wasn't especially revolutionary or anything, it's just that we couldn't keep up to where the ball was at for some reason, giving them plenty of open looks from beyond the arc. We kind of looked like a tormented cat chasing one of those laser light things, always a couple of steps behind

I agreed with everything you said but what I quoted above was the reason they lost they game.

It was the same thing against the Lakers that we saw against the Clippers, Nuggets, Wizards, and Raptors - slow rotations to the open man. The goal is to trap the pick and roll and shut down the middle but neither has been to effective in those 5 losses in particular. They were running around like chickens with their heads cut off and the Lakers kept drilling wide open "practice" jumpers.

I'm starting to think that they should stop trapping the pick and roll and stick to man to man defense unless they can do a better job of rotating.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

Shawne, brilliant, confident, superstar in the making if he keeps this up. I'd pay to watch him play. He was a big surprise last year with how ready he was and his fast progression continues.

Danny. Forced some shots, and sometimes settled instead. But ultimately he made a couple of impressive defensive efforts against Kobe and showed some ability to score on the dribble drive. Wasn't always pretty, but it was an effort to get it going and to expand his game. He doesn't shine like Shawne, doesn't have that spark or something, but he's a damn good player. To me this was not really a great night for him and it was still pretty good.

Harrison. Yes, Harrison. Didn't just avoid fouls by avoiding plays, he defended pretty well at times without fouling. If he could just add a bit more discipline to his defensive instincts, not go chasing the homerun block or steal, he'd really be a guy you could count on. His post offense is a great asset.

But most of all his effort to keep his cool and stay in games must be commended. He's got a fair ways to go still, but at least he finally seems to understand which way he's supposed to be headed. I really hope he keeps it up and that this isn't just a one week wonder.

Okay, that takes care of the good. Now the bad.

Remember the offensive movement vs Utah. Neither do the Pacers. It was horrible and it's not a JO thing. Things actually got worse after JO hit his knee and went out.

JO. Got brutalized by Bynum and you just have to hope it was because his leg was hurting after getting it smacked hard. He didn't win battles on the glass, he didn't really stop people inside very often, and Bynum got deep in his head with those shot blocks. I do agree that he was hung out to dry because he was forced to constantly help on dribble penetration. One time Farmar flat out posted up Tins and then went up and under on him which JO had to cover, and that left Bynum free for a dunk.

Tinsley. Mel Mel was tossing the rock around with wreckless abandon. I'll admit that I kinda like that, but when those passes are getting stolen or leading to poor plays it's pretty frustrating. He also had some trouble scoring. But his defense was where he got rung up as bad. He was a serious liability at that end.

Troy. Ugh. Luke Walton, all-star thanks to Troy. Here's some money, buy a shot. At least he was active on the glass at times which did help out a few times.

Mike. Mike did play, right? Yeesh. When he's going he's a big help, but he goes invisible man much faster that McKey ever did. Well, on offense that is.

Quis. Well it wasn't for lack of effort, but he missed some of his classic inside ugly shots and obviously had big time trouble stopping Kobe, who just shot right over him a couple of times. Really more of a meh than a bad game.

Foster. See Quis. Meh, but still good hustle. Of course it was classic Jeff with several missed tip-in/put back attempts.

Diener and Rush. Where's all this sweet shooting? Diener did nothing helpful till the game was about 25 points, then hit a couple of meaningless shots. Diener was also abused at the defensive end which hurt.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

I'd like to add that I sat with Gnome and Mal and not only did Mal and I not come to blows, we were in total agreement that the defense was not particularly horrible overall. Perimeter defense is still a big issue, but team defense wasn't terrible considering the power of weapons like Kobe paired with Bynum.

Frankly the Lakers shot their way to that offense, not unlike the Pacers in the first few games this year. Kobe busting contested 3s with his 32% rate or whatever he came in with? Come on. That running sideways jumper by Farmar. That falling over leaner layup by Odom.

If the Pacers were putting up s*** like that I'd be PO'd, even if it was going in. They got some good looks out of their offense too, don't get me wrong, but that 130 was built on some pretty hot shooting too.

The Pacers offense was horrid. Not bad. Horrid. Stagnant, confused, intimidated by Bynum. It was the polar oppostive of what we saw vs Utah, and that led to the poor FG%. They weren't taking the same types of shots (um, were there any lane cutter layups at all?) and weren't getting shots in the same kind of rhythm.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

I'd like to add that I sat with Gnome and Mal and not only did Mal and I not come to blows, we were in total agreement that the defense was not particularly horrible overall. Perimeter defense is still a big issue, but team defense wasn't terrible considering the power of weapons like Kobe paired with Bynum.

Frankly the Lakers shot their way to that offense, not unlike the Pacers in the first few games this year. Kobe busting contested 3s with his 32% rate or whatever he came in with? Come on. That running sideways jumper by Farmar. That falling over leaner layup by Odom.

If the Pacers were putting up s*** like that I'd be PO'd, even if it was going in. They got some good looks out of their offense too, don't get me wrong, but that 130 was built on some pretty hot shooting too.

The Pacers offense was horrid. Not bad. Horrid. Stagnant, confused, intimidated by Bynum. It was the polar oppostive of what we saw vs Utah, and that led to the poor FG%. They weren't taking the same types of shots (um, were there any lane cutter layups at all?) and weren't getting shots in the same kind of rhythm.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

Just wanted to add I wasn't as down about this game as most. To me, it's little more than a very hot shooting night by the Lakers. The Pacers had trouble closing out, but LA still had to make the shots.

The thing that concerns me is that we're playing a type of defense that allows the opponent to get into such a good rhythm that they're hitting tough shots. It reminds me of our defense right after we got Peja. Ouch.

Otherwise, the Lakers have been playing very well lately. I was courtside when they dismantled the Pistons in the 4th last Friday. Also beat Houston earlier that week.

BTW, Fox Sports needs to invest in a better camera. I watched the game on LA's "WB4", and the quality of the footage was 10Xs better.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

Just wanted to add I wasn't as down about this game as most. To me, it's little more than a very hot shooting night by the Lakers. The Pacers had trouble closing out, but LA still had to make the shots.

The thing that concerns me is that we're playing a type of defense that allows the opponent to get into such a good rhythm that they're hitting tough shots. It reminds me of our defense right after we got Peja. Ouch.

Otherwise, the Lakers have been playing very well lately. I was courtside when they dismantled the Pistons in the 4th last Friday. Also beat Houston earlier that week.

BTW, Fox Sports needs to invest in a better camera. I watched the game on LA's "WB4", and the quality of the footage was 10Xs better.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

The great Andrew Bynum just had two points and two rebounds in 26 minutes. ...while Marcus Camby had 20 rebounds in that same game.

LOL.

I know the guy is young and everything, but he is several years from being that effective. He will NEVER be anything close to a Shaq franchise type player. Not even close. The Laker fans will be very disappointed when he plateaus to a pumped up version of Brendan Haywood.

The Lakers should deal that young man and whatever other assets they have to make a run....while Kobe and Lamar Odom can help win a championship.

Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

I don't disagree. But that's not a bad thing. A solid big man who patrols the lane, converts easy buckets, plays D, and has a decent post game good for a couple buckets a night is nothing to sneeze at. Bynum could become that guy.

But then, so could David Harrison.

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Re: Post Game Thread #11 Blown Out by the Lakers

The great Andrew Bynum just had two points and two rebounds in 26 minutes. ...while Marcus Camby had 20 rebounds in that same game.

LOL.

I know the guy is young and everything, but he is several years from being that effective. He will NEVER be anything close to a Shaq franchise type player. Not even close. The Laker fans will be very disappointed when he plateaus to a pumped up version of Brendan Haywood.

The Lakers should deal that young man and whatever other assets they have to make a run....while Kobe and Lamar Odom can help win a championship.

I'm not gonna say that Bynum is gonna be the next Shaq or anything.....but it was just 1 game against a decent defender like Camby. If I'm not mistaken, this was the day after he sat out due to a stomach flu.