I only thing I know you mean is by the words you use. If it's not what you mean, then use the proper word. No one here is a mind reader.

I, personally, do not see any rigging or stacking this year. I do not think they set this TAR up for a female team to win. What I do see by looking at that list is the norm that TAR uses is 3 FF teams.....in this case, Nat/Kat, Brooke/Claire, and Katie/Rachel fit the norm. Even though Andie/Jenna are FF.....I really think to myself that they are certainly more unique than that...

Andie/Jenna is a unique storyline beside just being another FF team. Just as Peter/Sarah was more than being just a couple and Margie/Luke was more than just being a Parent/Child team. Sometime teams do just not fit in the "relationship" boxes.

I can understand that thinking and even agree with it, but that explanation does not reflect your original, extreme reaction.

So what we have accomplished in our strange discussions is this: there is weight in the theory that the quality of TAR 17's FF teams is better than that of past FF teams. Having said this, I believe that the quality of the couples and MM teams has diminished this season.

I was just thinking about strong women teams, I would have thought that Katie & Rachel would have been one of the strongest teams in the race, they know how to compete, know each other well, are athletes, and yet they got behind and never could catch up. So many imponderables.

Back on topic, I have no idea who will win but it's probably a good guess that Brook/Claire or Nat/Kat were surely competing to win wherever the final mat ended up. (Where DID they go after they landed at LA?)

Let's move this discussion on, I'm beginning to think maybe it should just be ended.

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your statement could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams. They decided not to cast any of those this year, maybe they are trying to give the FF teams a chance.

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your little complaint could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams.

I'm biased and i don't care. I just want an all-female team to win. And it's not about alpha male teams or what. The last time we had all-female teams in the final 3, (TAR 14 and Allstars except TAR 10).. they all lost against a co-ed team. In fact in all-stars, both Charla and Mirna and BQs lost against Eric and Danielle, who're weaker than them.

And no to Jill and Thomas winning. It will kill my TAR appetite, i'm serious.

Logged

"The Amazing Race shows the best and worst out of you. But if only negative things are shown, then it's probably you. - Jobby"

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your little complaint could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams.

I'm biased and i don't care. I just want an all-female team to win. And it's not about alpha male teams or what. The last time we had all-female teams in the final 3, (TAR 14 and Allstars except TAR 10).. they all lost against a co-ed team. In fact in all-stars, both Charla and Mirna and BQs lost against Eric and Danielle, who're weaker than them.

And no to Jill and Thomas winning. It will kill my TAR appetite, i'm serious.

Now you see why people like Nat&Kat and Brooke&Claire have come on the race-to be the first FF team to win.

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your little complaint could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams.

I'm biased and i don't care. I just want an all-female team to win. And it's not about alpha male teams or what. The last time we had all-female teams in the final 3, (TAR 14 and Allstars except TAR 10).. they all lost against a co-ed team. In fact in all-stars, both Charla and Mirna and BQs lost against Eric and Danielle, who're weaker than them.

And no to Jill and Thomas winning. It will kill my TAR appetite, i'm serious.

Won't entirely kill my TAR appetite, but it will spoil the whole season for me.

I just wanted to give my two cents on who I think will win. I've noticed something ever since I started watching TAR (And of course going back to seasons before I started).What I've noticed with Editing is that The first team introduced (Or First team to appear in the theme sequence) NEVER win.

So, For example this season, The first team introduced by Phil is Brooke and Claire and the first team on the Theme is Nick and Vicki. I personally don't think those two teams win (Due to the Nick and Vicki spoilers) but I am rooting for Brooke and Clair (Because as much as I use this method, I still think it can fail).

I can give an example of how I knew Dan and Jordan won within the first 10 minuets of watching the premier. Thanks to RFF spoilers I found out the Final 3 was Jet and Cord, Brent and Caiti and Dan and Jordan. I noticed B/C were introduced First by Phil and J/C were First in the Theme music.

So I hope this helps ANY (Still keep in mind, this can fail. So don't take it for gold )-ZBC

I just wanted to give my two cents on who I think will win. I've noticed something ever since I started watching TAR (And of course going back to seasons before I started).What I've noticed with Editing is that The first team introduced (Or First team to appear in the theme sequence) NEVER win.

So, For example this season, The first team introduced by Phil is Brooke and Claire and the first team on the Theme is Nick and Vicki. I personally don't think those two teams win (Due to the Nick and Vicki spoilers) but I am rooting for Brooke and Clair (Because as much as I use this method, I still think it can fail).

I can give an example of how I knew Dan and Jordan won within the first 10 minuets of watching the premier. Thanks to RFF spoilers I found out the Final 3 was Jet and Cord, Brent and Caiti and Dan and Jordan. I noticed B/C were introduced First by Phil and J/C were First in the Theme music.

So I hope this helps ANY (Still keep in mind, this can fail. So don't take it for gold )-ZBC

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your little complaint could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams.

I'm biased and i don't care. I just want an all-female team to win. And it's not about alpha male teams or what. The last time we had all-female teams in the final 3, (TAR 14 and Allstars except TAR 10).. they all lost against a co-ed team. In fact in all-stars, both Charla and Mirna and BQs lost against Eric and Danielle, who're weaker than them.

And no to Jill and Thomas winning. It will kill my TAR appetite, i'm serious.

Won't entirely kill my TAR appetite, but it will spoil the whole season for me.

Belle Book

I'm about more where you are, Belle Book, than Joab. Wouldn't make me give up the show, but it'd be a very sour ending to what's turning out to be an otherwise great season so far.

I just wanted to give my two cents on who I think will win. I've noticed something ever since I started watching TAR (And of course going back to seasons before I started).What I've noticed with Editing is that The first team introduced (Or First team to appear in the theme sequence) NEVER win.

So, For example this season, The first team introduced by Phil is Brooke and Claire and the first team on the Theme is Nick and Vicki. I personally don't think those two teams win (Due to the Nick and Vicki spoilers) but I am rooting for Brooke and Clair (Because as much as I use this method, I still think it can fail).

I can give an example of how I knew Dan and Jordan won within the first 10 minuets of watching the premier. Thanks to RFF spoilers I found out the Final 3 was Jet and Cord, Brent and Caiti and Dan and Jordan. I noticed B/C were introduced First by Phil and J/C were First in the Theme music.

So I hope this helps ANY (Still keep in mind, this can fail. So don't take it for gold )-ZBC

Can you remember who was first on these in other seasons?

I don't remember all the first teams introduced by Phil, but I know who was first in every opening sequence.

I just wanted to give my two cents on who I think will win. I've noticed something ever since I started watching TAR (And of course going back to seasons before I started).What I've noticed with Editing is that The first team introduced (Or First team to appear in the theme sequence) NEVER win.

So, For example this season, The first team introduced by Phil is Brooke and Claire and the first team on the Theme is Nick and Vicki. I personally don't think those two teams win (Due to the Nick and Vicki spoilers) but I am rooting for Brooke and Clair (Because as much as I use this method, I still think it can fail).

I can give an example of how I knew Dan and Jordan won within the first 10 minuets of watching the premier. Thanks to RFF spoilers I found out the Final 3 was Jet and Cord, Brent and Caiti and Dan and Jordan. I noticed B/C were introduced First by Phil and J/C were First in the Theme music.

So I hope this helps ANY (Still keep in mind, this can fail. So don't take it for gold )-ZBC

Correlation does not imply causation. Keep in mind that having 11-12 teams and only one winner, it is very difficult to have a winner in the first intro slot if they are put randomly.

Logged

The story so far:In the beginning the Universe was created.This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your statement could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams. They decided not to cast any of those this year, maybe they are trying to give the FF teams a chance.

Why could my point be that. I think a fit athletic female team should be capable of doing well against a fit athletic young couple and a fit athletic male team. The biggest reason women have underperformed in the race isn't lack of strength. Which is the one place you could rationally argue that Alpha male teams might be superior to Athletic women (in fact it depends on the individuals I hate blanket statements), but that hasn't traditionally been what has done in teams. Driving (More female teams have not known how to drive stick then men teams, why?), self navigation (reading maps, compasses), and more task choices. And historically the physically strongest teams aren't the teams that win? So I don't think I would ever make that call. There are a few exceptions (season 1, season 2 are the only two where the physical strongest team was the team to win).

And I reiterate (I think I should have put this statement first not second), I like all three final three teams (about even actually) both in personality and in performance skills. I have to problem with any of them winning.

I don't just want Nat & Kat or Brook & Claire to win due to the fact that they are women. And you see comments that state I want this team to win because I want to see a female team win, anything else would ruin a season for me (and I find comments like that just utterly outlandish). I have never used genetic factors as a primary reason for why I root for teams. First and foremost I root for teams that race (and why I was so disappointed by last season across the board), 2nd how they interact with each other and their environment (You be mean to locals and more then once then I am going to have a hard time liking you no matter how well you race), and how well you play with other teams. Wil and Tara strong racers, but treated each other poorly, treated locals poorly and treated other teams poorly, so no matter that they race well I would never root for them (an example).

Personally I would love to find out that Jill & Thomas won. That they were actually on that flight (or an earlier one though that is highly doubtful with the type of planning done on the last half dozen final legs).

I have no problem with any of the final three teams winning as all have had strong legs, all have had poor legs, and all seem to be actually racing...through this season.

But I have never really wanted a female team to win if their was a feeling like casting was trying to help enable it, by either casting softer competition, or by casting more. Just like season four seemed to just hand over the race to one of the many male teams cast.

As for casting soft the productions type of male casting has changed dramatically over the years, even going so far in all stars as not considering them for spots (I still get upset about that). Seasons 11, 12, 13, and 14 featured no fit athletic young male teams. Though with season 15 you had Sam and Dan and while Flight Time is over 30 they certainly were physically strong so lets count them as well and 16 had Jet & Cord (again I think one was in their 30's or 30) but they were physically fit so I would count them. And of course 17 back to no fit young athletic male teams.

Of course with the race a good chuck is luck and teams that on paper should do well can do terrible.

I would rather have just seen a female team win against strong male teams, as well as fit young couple teams. Thats probably my only real complaint.

Your statement could be reversed to say that a FF team has never had a chance before because of all the athletic MM teams. They decided not to cast any of those this year, maybe they are trying to give the FF teams a chance.

Why could my point be that. I think a fit athletic female team should be capable of doing well against a fit athletic young couple and a fit athletic male team. The biggest reason women have underperformed in the race isn't lack of strength. Which is the one place you could rationally argue that Alpha male teams might be superior to Athletic women (in fact it depends on the individuals I hate blanket statements), but that hasn't traditionally been what has done in teams. Driving (More female teams have not known how to drive stick then men teams, why?), self navigation (reading maps, compasses), and more task choices. And historically the physically strongest teams aren't the teams that win? So I don't think I would ever make that call. There are a few exceptions (season 1, season 2 are the only two where the physical strongest team was the team to win).

And I reiterate (I think I should have put this statement first not second), I like all three final three teams (about even actually) both in personality and in performance skills. I have to problem with any of them winning.

I don't just want Nat & Kat or Brook & Claire to win due to the fact that they are women. And you see comments that state I want this team to win because I want to see a female team win, anything else would ruin a season for me (and I find comments like that just utterly outlandish). I have never used genetic factors as a primary reason for why I root for teams. First and foremost I root for teams that race (and why I was so disappointed by last season across the board), 2nd how they interact with each other and their environment (You be mean to locals and more then once then I am going to have a hard time liking you no matter how well you race), and how well you play with other teams. Wil and Tara strong racers, but treated each other poorly, treated locals poorly and treated other teams poorly, so no matter that they race well I would never root for them (an example).

Then by all means, feel the way you want, but let the rest of us feel the way we want. That okay with you? Huh?