Saw on the show "Steve's Outdoor Adventures" where he touts the Burris "Eliminator" scope - which ranges the animal and then adjusts itself for elevation by illuminating the proper stadia/dot for holdover. The shooter simply uses the illuminated stadia/dot.

I don't like all these gadgets that are designed to assist the shooter DURING THE ACT OF MAKING THE SHOT ITSELF to the point of taking the skill needed for an accurate shot out of the hands of the shooter. Seems there are more and more of them these days.

Does this cross any lines for any of you? Just curious.

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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER

That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.

Saw on the show "Steve's Outdoor Adventures" where he touts the Burris "Eliminator" scope - which ranges the animal and then adjusts itself for elevation by illuminating the proper stadia/dot for holdover. The shooter simply uses the illuminated stadia/dot.

I don't like all these gadgets that are designed to assist the shooter DURING THE ACT OF MAKING THE SHOT ITSELF to the point of taking the skill needed for an accurate shot out of the hands of the shooter. Seems there are more and more of them these days.

Does this cross any lines for any of you? Just curious.

Doesn't cross a line, it's just a laser range finding scope. I view it as a waste of money.

Long range thing is just another disciple to master. Like shooting a bow past 40yards

Saw on the show "Steve's Outdoor Adventures" where he touts the Burris "Eliminator" scope - which ranges the animal and then adjusts itself for elevation by illuminating the proper stadia/dot for holdover. The shooter simply uses the illuminated stadia/dot.

I don't like all these gadgets that are designed to assist the shooter DURING THE ACT OF MAKING THE SHOT ITSELF to the point of taking the skill needed for an accurate shot out of the hands of the shooter. Seems there are more and more of them these days.

Does this cross any lines for any of you? Just curious.

Doesn't cross a line, it's just a laser range finding scope. I view it as a waste of money.

Long range thing is just another disciple to master. Like shooting a bow past 40yards

No, it's more than that. Ranging is just the first step. It goes beyond ranging and tells where to hold for elevation.

IMO that's part of the shooter's job in making the shot.

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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER

That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.

Think it's got a tree and lights up on the input. Sure it works on a very very large target but not real pin point.

I've not seen one in person, but the commercial for them shows it simply lighting up the proper "dot" for elevation purposes. Seems like it is as "pin point" as any other scope.

If it only shows elevation, which is all it can do, then it's only getting two steps of three accomplished. And that third step, judging the wind at the target, and properly adjusting for it is the difference in people than can hit, and people that can't hit.

The problem with the system is that so many people are going to buy it, and immediately think all they have to do is hold the dot on vitals. They're going to learn that's not the case when a bullet is blown into the gut, on the brisket, or cause a total miss.

Distance is science, windage is art.

I'm still trying to be an artist, and I shoot distance 52 weeks a year.

Think it's got a tree and lights up on the input. Sure it works on a very very large target but not real pin point.

I've not seen one in person, but the commercial for them shows it simply lighting up the proper "dot" for elevation purposes. Seems like it is as "pin point" as any other scope.

If it only shows elevation, which is all it can do, then it's only getting two steps of three accomplished. And that third step, judging the wind at the target, and properly adjusting for it is the difference in people than can hit, and people that can't hit.

The problem with the system is that so many people are going to buy it, and immediately think all they have to do is hold the dot on vitals. They're going to learn that's not the case when a bullet is blown into the gut, on the brisket, or cause a total miss.

Distance is science, windage is art.

I'm still trying to be an artist, and I shoot distance 52 weeks a year.

Sure, I agree.

I'm just wondering how many "steps" can be eliminated before accurate shooting becomes more the act of machine than man.

Bear in mind, I am talking about the very act of making the shot itself - not just getting information needed to make the shot.

I see all these "lockdown" devices that hold the rifle, scopes that tell you where to hold, etc. Every step gets closer to the "self-shooting rifle". Next I'm thinking will be a glove with a device that applies just the right amount smooth pressure to the trigger at the squeeze.

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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER

That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.

I agree with the human error in actually making the shot. Have to get the scope level over the rifle, slow steady trigger pressure, follow through not slapping the trigger. Which, by the way, is the worst habit I've seen people have.

Fancy new technology I doubt I will ever use, or will ever want to use, but I don't see how it takes any more sport etc. away from hunting than high powered rifles and telescopic sights haven't already done. That said I don't have a problem shooting rifles and scopes. Different strokes for different folks. I do surely hope it doesn't lend itself to a bunch of yoyo's running out to hunt at extreme ranges that don't put in the effort to make themselves competent to do so successfully.

Fancy new technology I doubt I will ever use, or will ever want to use, but I don't see how it takes any more sport etc. away from hunting than high powered rifles and telescopic sights haven't already done. That said I don't have a problem shooting rifles and scopes. Different strokes for different folks. I do surely hope it doesn't lend itself to a bunch of yoyo's running out to hunt at extreme ranges that don't put in the effort to make themselves competent to do so successfully.

That's what is always my biggest concern also. It will happen.

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Originally Posted By: REALKILLER

That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.

Fancy new technology I doubt I will ever use, or will ever want to use, but I don't see how it takes any more sport etc. away from hunting than high powered rifles and telescopic sights haven't already done. That said I don't have a problem shooting rifles and scopes. Different strokes for different folks. I do surely hope it doesn't lend itself to a bunch of yoyo's running out to hunt at extreme ranges that don't put in the effort to make themselves competent to do so successfully.

That's what is always my biggest concern also. It will happen.

Except they're already out there with lesser equipment than the Eliminator, trying to do it right this very second.

Fancy new technology I doubt I will ever use, or will ever want to use, but I don't see how it takes any more sport etc. away from hunting than high powered rifles and telescopic sights haven't already done. That said I don't have a problem shooting rifles and scopes. Different strokes for different folks. I do surely hope it doesn't lend itself to a bunch of yoyo's running out to hunt at extreme ranges that don't put in the effort to make themselves competent to do so successfully.

That's what is always my biggest concern also. It will happen.

Except they're already out there with lesser equipment than the Eliminator, trying to do it right this very second.

Yall are all correct. Almost every time someone shows up to my range and they see a definite 400 or 500 yards, they start to worry. I usually hear "wow, that looks farther than that". Then I say, you'll hit it, as well as everything beyond them, just trust me. Then the wind starts blowing and they have to hold for it, or they'll miss. It is educational, and that is the whole point.

I don't like all these gadgets that are designed to assist the shooter DURING THE ACT OF MAKING THE SHOT ITSELF to the point of taking the skill needed for an accurate shot out of the hands of the shooter. Seems there are more and more of them these days.

Does this cross any lines for any of you? Just curious.

People complain about all sorts of advancements. Years ago, I recall many traditional, iron-sight hunters talking about how using scopes took all the skill out of hunting. "It's no longer hunting, just killing."

While it has been years since I attended a long range class, my hunting partner just came back from one out by Aspermont. The instructors all had Kestral ballistic calculators and ranging gear as did some of the attending students. The Kestral provided all the correction information needed to be dialed in on the scopes. Yep, folks still had to read the wind to input that information, but pretty much the Kestrels "took all the skill" out of everything else except turning the turrets and pulling the trigger.

The problem with the notion of "taking all the skill out shooting" is that for many hunters, the skill isn't there to start with. They need all the help they can get to make decent shots. They need all the help they can get for making ethical shots.

The ones that say long rang takes the skill out of hunting are the ones to lazy to learn and put the time in to be proficient, because they don't understand the dedication it's takes for the proficiency IMOAs far as the scope it's only as good as the input, not differ then tradition scope and rangefinder