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Saturday, 22 April 2017

SDOAR: Duh-Duhh-Duh-Duh-DONE

CARSON GRUBAUGH:

My contribution to SDOAR Vol.1 is now complete. I think.

After finishing the last page I gave Dave a call to talk about what we need to do next. Some topics we covered.

An open question is whether Karl Stevens is going to do the final two pages of the post issue #4 bridging sequences. I sure hope so. It makes a hell of a lot more sense for the story, and given what I have been seeing from him on social media I really want to see what he does with the pages. Also, next week ends my spring semester, summer semester is always more hectic, I need to make another move (in-town this time), etc., so the timing of being-done-now would be really nice.

The plan is to take advantage of the week off between semesters to drive from Modesto down to San Diego to physically bring the pages to Sean Robinson. The art should be scanned and ready to do stuff with in two weeks time.

Dave has tasked Sean and I with figuring out what would make a good Artist's Edition for a Kickstarter campaign. Supposedly this will be done with IDW involved.

After a lot of confusing back-and-forth of faxes, which left me worried that there will never be an actual SDOAR BOOK, Dave and I had a second conversation that as very fruitful and left me feeling much better about being a good representative of his agenda, as well as a negotiator for the agenda of pretty much all of the rest of us who really just want to read the damn book. The hope is that during the trip to San Diego Sean and I will also be able to met with Ted Adams to start firming up a long term release strategy that is acceptable to all parties involved.

Anyway, how about some art!

Here is the middle of three pages that are pretty much all the same image with Sim Sizzle (I dub it thus) going through various contortions depending on Jack's internal states.

The Sim Sizzle really caught my eye when I first read SDOAR so I was very happy try my hand at it.

Tracing Dave's Raymond tracing, copies of copies of copies, and seeing it shrunk down makes me realize that I have been going WAY too small and placing my lines far too close together to recreate the glowing half-tone look of Raymond's hatching. Whoops. Dave said to go small; draw into the page!

UPDATE -- 23 APRIL:

More talking to Dave and some thinking on my part requires modifications to the above information.

SDOAR
is going to be a series of, we don't know how many, Artist's Editions
BEFORE it is a book. This is Dave's desire. Sean and I will work with
IDW to figure out exactly how the material is going to be spread out
over the editions.

This means Karl's pages are unnecessary for a
while to come so we can just move forward. After looking at what I think
makes a good Vol. 1 book as a whole I actually think those two pages
would be better served as the first two pages of Vol. 2 anyway. So I can
happily say that EVERYTHING about Vol 1. (as I think it is best
constituted) is DONE!

We talked about turning You Don't
Know...Jack? into a mini-series rather than web-strips. This would let
us get some books on the market while the Editions come out and serve as
a weird promotional device for SDOAR. I have tons of ideas for the book
ready to send to Dave. Jack, bless her heart, is totally on board.

The next step is to scan the art and meet with IDW to firm up the details of the various releases.

Oh, and from here on out I am not going to re-draw images that can just
be Photoshopped. Point proven. Trial of fire passed. Finishing things as
quickly as possible is now the primary goal. Hoity-toity art pride be
damned.

39 comments:

So SDoAR is going to be a series of $125 books first? That might be a good decision. Neither Alex Raymond nor Dave Sim are exactly names to conjure with in the current market, and this book doesn't have much breakout potential. But interested fans will both appreciate the high-quality reproduction and swallow the hefty price-tag.

Damian,Actually, no, you were right, apologies... and Dave agrees with you that its going to tank big time! Here's what he said back in March (see AMOC post dated 5 March 2017):

My concern is how much money IDW has invested in this -- roughly $30K -- and that there's no way that they're getting that -- or even a fraction of that -- "back out" in any conventional publishing scenario. The Hate Dave constituency is just too huge (coupled with Hate Photorealism; coupled with Hate Anything That Isn't CEREBUS for the few Dave Sim fans that there are). So, I think we basically need to do the reverse of the conventional publishing motif and START with the ARTISTS EDITION: basically doing what I'm doing with the CEREBUS ARCHIVE Portfolios but doing them with SDOAR. You and I won't get any money out of it. IDW does the Kickstarter fulfillment and makes all the Kickstarter money until the $30K is paid off. THEN IDW does a conventional book solicited through the Direct Market and if it tanks (and I'm pretty sure it's going to tank) and anyone with $20 who can get past the Hate Dave thing, is welcome to buy it. If there are any royalties, we'll split in a ratio based on the number of pages involved. If IDW wants to do Volume Two -- i.e. they made money on top of the $30K -- then we'll do that the same way. If they don't, you and I will do the Kickstarter for Volume Two and it will ONLY be an ARTISTS EDITON, never a book.

Obviously, this is an evolving situation and he's thinking may have changed since then. Who knows?

This was the LENGTHY debate Dave and I had over the weekend. I thought AEs first was killing the project before I got started, but after further discussion I see what Dave is after and am on board. (Although as far as I can tell Damian is being sincere here, Tim, not sarcastic? Maaaayyyybe?)

Also, we are working to make You Don't Know... Jack! a comic book. It will be it's own really funny thing AND a promo for SDOAR that will go to the non Dave Sim/Alex Raymond aware public. SDOAR will be mentioned in YDKJ as many times as possible to build interest. "What is this book they keep mentioning?"

Dave is already churning out layouts/script for it. AHHHH!!!

For anyone scared that YDKJ will just be Dave Sim misogyny rants, further damaging SDOAR's chances, it is more like Dave, Carson and Jack bicker about these issues and everyone gets their shots in, humor. Socially relevant stuff that I think will help spread awareness of Dave.

Yes, I was being sincere in my comment, and I don't think I was slagging Dave or SDoAR, a project which I am very much looking forward to (as I have stated here many times).

I do not think it is helpful to don our rose-coloured glasses; this book is an uphill sale. Dave himself has admitted that photo-realistic cartooning is not a currently popular style. Fans of comic strips (as opposed to books) are a minority within the comics audience. So the subject of the book is already narrowing the larger audience.

The comics audience and market have regrettably short memories (I am far from the first to remark on this). If readers know who Dave Sim is, it's probably as "the weird, misogynist aardvark guy". Dave's last two projects were commercial failures; not enough people were aware of them to affect his reputation one way or the other. He has not been prominent in comics for a long time. His name on a project is not enough to inspire interest.

And Alex Raymond ... Well, if people have heard of Flash Gordon it's probably because of Queen. As to the man himself, I'm reminded of Dave's anecdote of asking a woman who'd just obtained a TMNT autograph: "Kevin or Peter?" "Donatello. Who the hell are Kevin and Peter?"

We may think that any or all of these things should not be the case, but I maintain that we must admit that they are the case.

This led me to think initially that it was a mistake to release SDoAR first as Artist's Editions. I feared that the high cover-price would further deter readers who already had enough reasons not to pick up the book.

But upon consideration, I revised that thought. Let's analogize to movies: SDoAR isn't Avengers III, it's a small arthouse movie. The usual strategy is a limited release to build critical opinion and audience awareness. Hopefully the project amasses enough buzz that it convinces people to check it out -- and lo! There's the mass-market edition just coming on sale.

Who is the primary audience for SDoAR? It's people who love comic strips, photo-realistic art, Alex Raymond, comics history, discourses on cartooning. It's people who bought the Cerebus Archive portfolios. It's people who read this blog, who love Cerebus and Dave Sim's work, and want to read more comics by him.

So Dave might be right in doing an Artist's Edition version before a mass-market edition. Certainly the high-quality reproduction of an Artist's Edition plays to the strengths of the material. If Dave discourses about Raymond's brushlines, wouldn't it be great to see those brushlines as accurately as possible?

I don't think SDoAR will tank, as Dave does, but I don't think it will become that rare, breakout best-seller. It'll sell a few hundred, maybe even a couple of thousand, copies. But I think it will have a "long tail", sales-wise. Probably the best-case scenario is for comic shops to always have a copy or two on the shelves, available for that rare reader to discover.

Carson: Ha! True, sometimes Dave is his own worst enemy, but I think I see the wisdom behind this release strategy for SDoAR.

I'm less sanguine about this proposed You Don't Know Jack. You guys may intend "more like Dave, Carson, and Jack bicker about these issues and everyone gets their shots in, humour. Socially relevant stuff that I think will help spread awareness of Dave." I think that, regardless of how funny it is, it will serve only to further the "misogynist" part of Dave's reputation. I suppose being the funny misogynist is better than being the whiny misogynist ...

Damian,Jesus Christ... not again! Do you live under a black cloud all the time? Can you ever see a positive side to anything? I seem to remember IDW Publisher Ted Adams being very confident he could get SDOAR on to the NY Times Best Seller list, and Eric Reynolds (no fan of Cerebus or Dave) was very keen to publish SDOAR so obviously saw potential in it. Just lighten up will you? Jesus Christ...!Tim

But this work is going to go way beyond even those people who are fans of Dave's. This is a work that anybody who's interested in comics is going to love and anybody who's just interested in art in general. We spoke about this, the first part of the book, he talks about the different way that comics can be inked, and the brushes that were used, and how the strokes worked. I'm nowhere near art and I find all that stuff fascinating and it's stuff that... I've been reading comics since I was 5 years old, and I didn’t know about how a brush works, and how they laid ink on the paper correctly and those kind of things, I just thought it was completely fascinating. So this work is gonna have...and I told Dave this, if we do our job right from a publishing standpoint, and we market this book right, this book is going to be big. This is not...I know it feels kind of inside baseball because it's about comic strip careers and in most cases comic strip creators that the general public has never heard of, but that doesn't matter. What matters is it's a compelling story, well told. And with a compelling story well told, it doesn't matter what the subject matter is. You don't have to come into it with pre-knowledge. So that's why I know, I KNOW this book is going to be an important book, and I know it's going to have a big audience.

Tim: You say that as if it can be only a smear campaign. But there is another way of looking at it. I grant that it requires you to assume I'm acting in good faith, which is more than you are willing to do (and that's fine).

Dave Sim is known as a misogynist. The reason people think this is because of the things he has said and written. (Please note that I am not taking sides here, merely describing the situation as I see it. If I am inaccurate, please point out where.) Dave has said these things are his real beliefs, and he has further explained and defended them here on this very blog, among other venues.

It is reasonable to assume that he is not going to repudiate these views. Indeed, it is reasonable to assume that he will continue to explain and defend these views. It is reasonable to assume that his satirical and / or humorous bickering with Carson and Jack on these subjects will be founded upon these views.

So Dave finds himself co-creating a comic of material advancing the same views that earned him his reputation as a misogynist. No matter how funny it is, no matter how remunerative, it will be material from that viewpoint. And the audience has already concluded that this material is misogynist. (Again: not taking sides, merely describing.) Is there an argument that it will be different this time? I haven't heard it.

And that's how you prejudge something.

Footnote: Perhaps you are unfamiliar with North American publishing, but IDW publisher Ted Adams has zero power to get anything on the New York Times bestseller list. Though I am pleased to hear that Eric Reynolds shares my enthusiasm for SDoAR.

Damian,Well it is good to hear you admit that you are prejudging SDOAR.

Another FYI for you, this time from Rich Johnston of Bleeding Cool:

...Here's the thing. The Strange Death of Alex Raymond is a wonderful comic about comics, comic strips, cartoonists and opening a cold case, alleging foul play in the supposed accidental death of the superstar cartoonist of his day. It is a newsworthy comic that is experimental in its storytelling, rewarding in its experience and has a story in its construction of one master of the form learning to draw like another master of his form in order to tell his story.

It was just that it was cut up and hidden within the pages of glamourpuss when initially released, a parody of fashion magazines from a man who few people wanted to hear that from.

But The Strange Case Of Alex Raymond has the potential to be Dave Sim's From Hell. Ted Adams of IDW can see this. I can too. And New York Times bestseller lists, especially for graphic novels, are not that hard to get to the top of with the right project. And this is the right project.

Dave Sim might realise this too eventually, but only after publication. I just hope his negativity doesn’t harm the project in any way.

My point is that everything you say about SDOAR is just your opinion and is coloured by your negative bias. It is just your opinion and not a fact. Ted and Rich have another view, more optimistic view, which is equally valid.

Tim: All opinions are not created equal. I gave a reasoned argument; Ted and Rich gave enthusiastic spin. My opinion is worth more than theirs. I note that you don't even try to address anything I say, you just police my tone. I repeat that I have been enthusiastic about SDoAR since it was announced, and that in this very thread I advanced arguments in support of Dave's plan for the work's release. Yes, very negative.

Tim: Yes: it tells you that I am a person who believes in standards. You say "it's only funny books", but you're the one getting hysterical here. And you still haven't addressed anything I've said. Why are you getting so upset?

So Rich says SDoAR "has the potential to be Dave Sim's From Hell." I can think of two differences immediately: When From Hell was first published in Taboo and people asked what it was about, you could tell them "Jack the Ripper" and they would know who you were talking about; when SDoAR comes out in $125 hardcovers and people ask what it's about, you can tell them "Alex Raymond" and they will not know who you're talking about. And when From Hell was first published in Taboo, Alan Moore was the biggest name in comics; when SDoAR is eventually published, Dave Sim will be largely forgotten.

I am pleased that Rich is so enthusiastic about SDoAR. So am I. And perhaps he means SDoAR will equal the creative achievement of From Hell. I hope so as well. But in the marketplace, it's a harder sell than From Hell.

See, that is an "argument", with reasons and evidence cited. It supports Dave's plan for the release of SDoAR -- because I think it's a good plan, not because Dave came up with it. And I'm pleased that I agree with Dave here; I'm pleased that I think he's right.

I have to admit, I don't see any problem with what Damian is saying and it is in fact the viewpoint that Dave is laboring under, as far as I can tell.

Dave suspects that because of his reputation in the industry SDOAR will not sell well no matter how good it is or how much IDW believes it will. I hope and suspect the situation will be otherwise, but only Dave has lived Dave's life, so I take his word about what the likely sales outcome for the book is.

It sounds like Damian is expressing more concern for YDKJ! than for SDOAR, which given the explicitly political tone of YDKJ! and the apolitical tone of SDOAR, is a fair worry.

Dave will be being Dave in YDKJ! It isn't like anything he says will surprise people. What I hope will surprise people is that Dave makes fun of Dave being Dave and at the same time accommodates and gives voice to someone with polar opposite views to him. As a skeptic of both side I am trying to mediate so that everyone gets a fair shake. Yes, it is a razor-thin balance, but given the current political situation I think it is one worth trying to strike.

Also, there is a much larger audience for Dave's kind of views these days, with figures like Milo Yiannopolous and Jordan Peterson drawing so much attention. So, even if the left leaning side of the comic industry continues to disapprove of Dave Sim(this book can't make that worse, can it?) there is a very real possibility that there is a new market of people who actually want this kind of politically confrontational material.

Carson: You say, "It sounds like Damian is expressing more concern for YDKJ! than for SDoAR, which [...] is a fair worry." Yes, Tim is confusing my (legitimate) concern over YDKJ! with my (nonexistent) negativity over SDoAR.

Most people admit that Dave is highly skilled at portraying comedy in comics. He's a pretty funny writer, and (obligatory snark:) most of the time that's on purpose. I'm just not certain how wise a project YDKJ! is -- either on its own merits, or as promotion for Dave. I expect he will express his views with humour -- but it was exactly those views that led the majority of people to conclude that Dave is a misogynist. (As always, please note: I am not here saying that Dave is or is not a misogynist (he is), but describing the existing situation. Dave himself has claimed that he is the Pariah King of Comics, universally viewed as a misogynist.)

But do consider that the last two times Dave put these views into a comic book, it failed in the comics marketplace. Glamourpuss was cancelled for low sales; Cerebus's sales-figures plummetted. Past experience suggests that there is not an audience of sufficient size to support Dave's views.

Carson, you also say, "there is a much larger audience for Dave's kind of views these days". I don't know that this is true; as I look at polls, it seems to be the same 23 percent of the population as always. Perhaps at the moment these individuals are emboldened to speak more openly where formerly they cowered -- so perhaps indeed the ticket-buying numbers have increased.

(I assume that we are talking about Dave's gender-essentialist views here. I absolutely dispute that there is much of an audience at all, let alone an increasing one, for his religious views.)

And of course sometimes you have to take a stand, and say things for the sake of principle that you know will be poorly received. I expect that Dave will, for the sake of principle, explain and defend his views in YDKJ!. But I have never got the impression that Dave regards YDKJ! as an essential forum for his views. Maybe he does. Maybe he thinks it's time for another frontal assault on the Feminist Homosexualist Liberalist Libertinist Socialist Atheist Theocracy. In which case I can applaud his commitment if not his views; he's not a hypocrite, he's just wrong.

Rather, the impression I get is that YDKJ! is primarily a revenue generator. I don't say this is a bad thing. Even when Dave plays the commercial hack with work-made-for-hire variant covers on licensed properties (that's five insults to artistic purity and the sentence isn't even over yet!), he puts thought and effort into his work and always gives value for money. And YDKJ! is above that level. Dave has repeatedly expressed his concern about offering his fans a work of value for a reasonable price, so I would never say that YDKJ! is a rip-off.

My two concerns about YDKJ! are 1) That it will fail in the comics marketplace; not only will it not bring in money, but it will take Dave's time away from SDoAR, which both he and I regard as the greater work; and 2) That it will further cement Dave's reputation as a misogynist, which confers no advantages and some disadvantages.

Having said all that ... it is of course Dave's decision as to how he spends his time and energy. If he thinks this project is worth it, I may disagree but I can only wish him well. I hope that I have made a case for my position, and do not seem merely negative. I continue to look forward to SDoAR.

Can't disagree with any of that. It is a risky project. My hope is that interventions from myself and Jack will help the project be more than just Dave putting forth his views. I want a humorous debate between all three positions. An easy thing to get wrong, but worth the risk in my mind. How long Dave well can incorporate our interventions, we shall see. So far so good.

I think Galmourpuss failed mostly because it was a really confusing mash up of two things,and the thing related to the cover and title was an unclear narrative (A supermodel using a self-published comic to work out her psychological issues on the advice of her therapist?!) and a really long-winded.

SDOAR and YDKJ! are much more focused in both narrative and delivery. So, fingers crossed! Really tight ;)

Sorry, something else cropped up. Where were we? Oh yes, you were saying:

My opinion is worth more than theirs.

LOL! That's classic! Twenty-fours hours on, that still makes me smile. Thanks Damian... although I hate to be the one to prick your over-inflated sense of self-worth, but the only opinions that MATTER in this instance are those of Dave, Ted and Carson.

Your forensically researched, crystalline-structured opinion is worthless because you haven't actually read the book yet. But, you know, thanks for sharing. As predictable as night follows day, any crumb of good news posted on AMOC will be met by Damian with his bucket of negativity to throw all over it.

Anyway, here's a opinion that actually matters -- Ted Adams again:

I told Dave that the Strange Death of Alex Raymond is an important work and I'm extremely proud he's publishing it with IDW.

I think it would be a mistake to publish it as comic books and recommended that we publish it instead as a series of four graphic novels, one a year for four years. This would allow us to put major marketing and promotional resources behind the release of the book. If we went this route, we'll hire a book publicist to promote Dave and the book and I can pretty much guarantee it would make the New York Times Bestseller list. I also recommended we publish it in black and white.

I'm pre-disposed to like anything Dave does but this book completely blew me away. I asked a couple of other folks at IDW to read it, including someone who knows nothing about Dave or comics, and they all had the same response. To reiterate, this is an IMPORTANT work... Not a lot of people remember Alex Raymond but lots of people like to read well-written and beautifully drawn books... It depends on what other books are being released at the same time but sell-through of 20,000 copies would be our initial goal and I believe that would get the book on the NYT list.

There is no way a once a year schedule happens unless things radically change.

Dave is still doing his commentaries and unless I misunderstand our conversations he isn't going to go back to Vol. 2 until those are complete. Even if he did start sending me a few pages at a time my 'real' job makes me, obviously, pretty slow. It took me a month to pencil twenty-six pages (over Christmas break) and then four months to ink those pages.

Suppose I quit teaching, then maybe 24 pages every two months or so? And if I got in a flow like that I could likely dramatically scale back the level of detail in the pencils to speed things up more. Still not sure that would keep us yearly.

Dave has inquired about what it would take to get me doing SDOAR full-time. Obviously that would be best for all of us in terms of rate of production and getting me into pure zen-drawing mode.

The problem is, I do not have aspirations of continuing to do comic work after SDOAR. I love teaching and I have plenty of my own artistic projects hanging around. Taking a three or four year break from teaching, which is feasible since I am only part-time right now, would mean potentially passing up on any potential full-time gig, a stable career that would provide health insurance, retirement, etc. As we have seen with Dave, human bodies are not very likely to let you keep drawing until 80. Far too many legendary comics creators fall apart physically and then into financial ruin in their elder years. No thanks.

The best thing about the set-up right now is that Dave and I are doing this work because we want to. There is absolutely no pressure from anyone other than ourselves that it ever see the light of day. I insist that it DO see the light of day, but I don't NEED it to. That is a good place to be in and I hope to stay there.

How that changes things at/for IDW, or for the fans, I don't know. Hopefully much. It is a great book.

As far as this ongoing talk about making the NYT bestseller list, didn't the discontinue their graphic-novels and comics list? We sure as hell are not going to break into a list that includes prose novels!

Even if they hadn't discontinued the comics-specific list we would be going against Raina Telgemeier and The Walking Dead. I think those two collectively cleaned up all of the top-ten spots and did so for a long time.

Tim: You said, "Twenty-fours hours on, that still makes me smile. Thanks Damian." While I am pleased that I made you smile, it is unfortunate that the reason you are amused is because you don't understand what I said. You are letting your personal feelings about me interfere with your ability to read and think clearly.

You quote my conclusion as if it were a standalone statement. But, as I actually said, I supported my opinion with arguments and evidence, whereas Ted and Rich supported their opinions with ... well, nothing at all, beyond their enthusiasm for the work. That is what makes my opinion worth more than theirs, not my innate sense of superiority or whatever motives you uncharitably impute.

Let's analogize: I examine a corporation's past performance, its likely actions, and the current market circumstances, and then I recommend that purchasing its stock will yield a modest return. Some other guy doesn't do any of that, but is just sure that this stock is going to go way, way up. Do you think that those opinions are worth the same, or is one worth more, and if so which one? To be consistent with the thinking you have shown thus far, you must say that the latter individual is more reliable; take their advice, and I wish you good luck in your poverty.

And once again: If you can find anything wrong in what I say, beyond the fact that it hurts your feelings, please point it out.

Barry: I think Ted's enthusiasm is overly optimistic, for reasons given above. But certainly he is experienced in publishing and marketing comics. I would be delighted if Ted is right, and Dave and I are wrong, about SDoAR's chances for breakout success.

Tim: Now there's an amusing co-incidence, given recent posts here! The last time I wrote, drew, and "published" comics was for my local circles during the mini-comics craze of the '90s -- and one of my inspirations was Colin Upton.

Tony: I agree: Colin is most inspiring! The recent posts here inspired me to dig out my copies of his work, just to start. It's certainly not necessary to be a cartoonist oneself to find inspiration in Colin's dedication, work ethic, and talent.

Tim: Nor is it necessary to be a cartoonist oneself to be an expert in comics, though I'm grateful for the acknowledgement. It is not, however, my minor forays into mini-comics two decades ago that make me (however minor) a comics expert, but my knowledge of comics and the strength of my arguments in support of my opinion. But here's another laugh for you: your comments here prove that my opinion is also worth more than yours. Thanks for reading!

FYI: A few days ago it was annoying me that I couldn't find Fanta's Eric Reynolds quote about publishing SDOAR... found it just now:

I thought the Alex Raymond / Stan Drake serial in Glamourpuss was the most compelling thing going in periodical comics the last two years. I was bummed to learn it was ending. I would love to publish the finished book.