UNITEDRANT

Euro failure possible but this is nothing like 2005

The last time Sir Alex Ferguson’s side failed to make it out of the Champions League group stages all hell broke loose at Old Trafford. Defeated by Benfica at Estádio da Luz, Manchester United finished bottom of Group D on 7 December 2005, avoiding ignominious relegation to the UEFA Cup. Then, as now, the Reds faced, on paper at least, an eminently winnable qualification group. Yet, dropped points against Lille, Villarreal and the Portuguese left Ferguson red faced, and United out of Europe’s premier competition.

The dark clouds of defeat hung not only over United’s European campaign but domestically too. Defeat to Benfica in Lisbon had followed an equally tedious display against Lille in Paris, after which Ferguson had sought – erroneously – to blame the Stade de France pitch for the Reds’ 1-0 loss. Four days earlier, in what many still regard as one of the most humiliating losses in Ferguson’s reign, Middlesbrough hammered United 4-1 at the Riverside.

The manager appeared, on the surface at least, to hold no answers to United’s struggles.

In between Euro defeats the tension between captain Roy Keane and manager Ferguson reached its zenith, with the Irishman effectively sacked on 18 November. Keane, having already voiced his willingness to play elsewhere with a contract due to expire the following summer, went on to name and shame his failing United team-mates in a now infamous MUTV interview. That the Keane and Ferguson had already clashed in pre-season over preparations at a Portuguese training camp only made the midfielder’s express departure all the more inevitable.

The fall out was equally certain, with doom-laden headlines and very public questions about Ferguson’s ability, energy and willingness to turn around United’s apparent decline. After all, failure in Europe during the 2005/6 season capped a relatively barren period for the club. Chelsea captured that season’s title by eight points, and the previous race too, some 12 points ahead of the Reds. Moreover, Arsenal had taken the Premier League in 2003/4, 15 points ahead of Ferguson’s limited side.

Supporter anger, brewing since the Glazer takeover the previous summer, was only exacerbated by United’s football in winter 2005 that was all too often turgid in nature, with Ruud van Nistelrooy often ploughing a lone furrow up front, and Wayne Rooney frequently consigned to a wide role.

No wonder some fans began to express their anger in writing.

“It is an increasingly inescapable conclusion that, unwittingly or otherwise, Ferguson is winding down, a prizefighter who no longer has the stomach or the wit for an admittedly enormous challenge which, once upon a time, he would have fervently inhaled,” wrote United supporting journalist Rob Smyth in the Guardian.

“Like he did with Liverpool. Ferguson’s almost maniacal yearning to “knock Liverpool off their f***ing perch” was arguably the single most important factor in United’s 1990s renaissance. It makes it all the more vicious an irony that, 10 years later, he should knock United off the perch he had made for them through increasingly rank mismanagement.”

Six years on, four Premier League titles and a European trophy later, and Smyth’s expression of frustration has proven embarrassingly wrong. Yet, in the gloom of Euro exit and domestic supersedence, it was not obvious that the groundwork had been done for future success. Smyth’s was not the only voice of concern.

The inevitable question now is whether United, being heavily outspent by Chelsea and Manchester City domestically, and on the verge of European failure, will repeat the trick of 2005/6? Certainly qualification from Group C is not guaranteed. After all, FC Basel gave the Reds a genuine game at Old Trafford, scoring three times in a well-earned draw. In the hot-house atmosphere of St. Jakob-Park in two week’s time the Reds could conceivably fail.

United’s defensive nous on the road ought to earn the draw needed, but few will bet heavily on it. More to the point, the chances of United securing a second round tie against a European heavyweight is high, with Internazionale, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and Barcelona all likely to top Champions League groups. Unless whipping boys Otelul Galati secure at least a draw at Benfica United cannot top Group C, and the nation’s bookies will weigh the odds in favour of a new year Euro exit.

Yet, if this is to be a season of transition, with the Class of ’92 – save for Ryan Giggs – all now departed, the groundwork for future success is surely more advanced than in winter 2005. True, United then had a young Cristino Ronaldo, whose partnership with Rooney would blossom into a Champions League winning force. But the squad also contained a plethora of dead wood, including Mikael Silvestre, Kieran Richardson, Alan Smith, and Liam Miller.

Ferguson’s concern today is to mould Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, the da Silva brothers and David de Gea into a consistent, long-term, defensive unit, while finding the right blend from his variety of attacking options. However, by far the 69-year-old’s greatest challenge is to find – or buy – a central midfield formula that can compete at the highest level. As it is, mediocrity in the centre of the park is forcing Ferguson to compromise either United’s attacking or defensive cohesion. Too often both.

This concern is not new of course. Ferguson’s failure to adequately replace Keane and then Owen Hargreaves is utterly dumbfounding. Belief that injury-prone rookie Tom Cleverley could carry United’s central midfield alone this season was a glaring strategic error.

In the short-term the Scot will hope, beyond hope, that captain Nemanja Vidic’s return in Switzerland will be accompanied by a fit Rooney. Without the pair, the Reds face a genuine threat of exit. With them, that fear can be postponed to the New Year at least.

76 comments

Yep, could not agree more. The inexplicable lack of midfield reinforcement by SAF amounts to criminal neglect of a football team, and they are going nowhere slowly until this blind spot mentality is rectified.

He went for around £25m don’t know what his wages are? My understanding is that the Arsenal board and Wenger didn’t want to sell to United. I believe we tabled an offer of around £20m. I may be wrong though.

Yes but the season that is the starting point of the article.United had as their Strikers Ruud van Nistelrooy, 24 goals, Wayne Rooney 19, Saha 15. And guess who as the fourth goal scorer Ronaldo with 12 goals, recall how that worked out in the end?
I support United and our manager.It tended to go tits up from there on, not because of the players that were at the Club.The robbers, that pillage and destroy it.
We are where we are, not because of Sir Alex.He is my hero.Its the yanks that have litrally drained the red blood out of United.Fluidity and a game for the working class lad.

Fergie’s faith in Anderson has cost United. He won’t admit it but it’s true.
He’s obviously spent 20m+ on him and he’s feeling responsible for the failure of such a big investment.
Luckily Cleverley and Carrick are playing well, but Fletcher isn’t first 11 material.
Jones is crap too, but he’s young with a lot of potential. He’s playing far too many games at the moment – he should be blended in. I’d rather Fabio or Valencia play right back.
But how good is Smalling? He looks so fucking solid it’s unreal.

Christ he is 19, for a United supporter to slag of a yong player I think your a Bertie. Its not the United way.Did you see who he has been equalled with?
Who cares about Davide Luiz, he is inept an rash in the tackle(Ps MODE) Pure Gary Red Neville. wind up mode.Sir Alex.And Villas Boas, bites

Jones is a very good player in the making, and actually rather useful in the air, but yes, he’s playing a lot which means some of his yet-to-be-addressed failings have been exposed now and then.
Smalling has come a mile since joining, it’s important the Da Silva twins progress too.

The midfield remains a huge concern, I think I must be alone in advocating as regular a starting place as possible for Giggs (the only player with real guile for United save Rooney).

Spot on Alf give the lad a chance, two errors does not make a shite defender, versiatile and pure pedigree.
Trust the Scouts that search these players and watch them day in day out.You know it makes sense, Alfieee.
I thought for the record he was an England full blooded international cap several times.Name me 5 others?.That United have had in their ranks at 19?

dozer said:
Fergie’s faith in Anderson has cost United. He won’t admit it but it’s true.
He’s obviously spent 20m+ on him and he’s feeling responsible for the failure of such a big investment.
Luckily Cleverley and Carrick are playing well, but Fletcher isn’t first 11 material.
Jones is crap too, but he’s young with a lot of potential. He’s playing far too many games at the moment – he should be blended in. I’d rather Fabio or Valencia play right back.
But how good is Smalling? He looks so fucking solid it’s unreal.

Fergie’s faith in Ando has cost us what exactly?
What you on about with Jones FFS. When he returns to his natural centreback position (when Rio gets the boot or Vidic fucks off to Madrid) he’ll find it a lot easier having played in midfield and at right back

As I said before, I was stunned that we did not buy a world class right back and an attacking midfielder in the summer. Finally, SAF realizes he has problems and he is saying he may have to buy players for these positions in the January transfer window. I surely do hope so. Too many young players playing in defence including the goalkeeper is why we are giving away goals. No real experience in defence.

What most disappointed me about Tues and to be honest the season so far, was SAF’s failure to introduce youth to the extent that he intimated back in August. We should be now seeing the likes of Pogba, Morrison, Fryers, Petrucci as regulars on the subs bench and coming on games for 30 mins or so. I am coming round to thinking that we need to accept a year or two of winning little and really rebuild for the future. As it is I don’t see Utd beating City over a season, I think Spurs are a better side than Utd as well, so why not start tghe rebuild. The likes of Pogba and Morrison will not hang arou8nd forever.

What you on about with Jones FFS. When he returns to his natural centreback position (when Rio gets the boot or Vidic fucks off to Madrid) he’ll find it a lot easier having played in midfield and at right back

dunno, think he hasn’t got the discipline or accuracy to be a defender – like Alf says, I think midfield is better for him. he has a lot to learn – too eager to get onto ball and dance with it, which is why he shld be in midfield rather defence. never want to stifle the enthusiasm at same time defence needs accuracy – this is why Rio something fucks up, head in the clouds dreaming of his next tweet about how he is bigging it up in Ibeefa.

What level and type of discipline does he not have? From what I have seen he has the hallmarks of a great CB. Pace strength and good feet and more than adequate with his head. He seems to relish fullback and the opportunity to get forward (as most young competent defenders do) and rarely have I seen him not tracking back after a run or pressing the same space as the midfield leaving the CB exposed. I haven’t seen him give away rash free kicks at critical times (unlike the twins) don’t think he has received many yellow cards either. In fact my only problem with him as a fullback is he doesn’t get forward enough. I honestly cannot level any criticism at either Smalling or Jones. They are young and will make some mistakes but on the whole Smalling, Jones DeGea, twins, Hernandez, Nani, Rooney, Cleverly to name a few look like the platform for a team that will bring home some more titles.

Commenter said:
What level and type of discipline does he not have? From what I have seen he has the hallmarks of a great CB. Pace strength and good feet and more than adequate with his head. He seems to relish fullback and the opportunity to get forward (as most young competent defenders do) and rarely have I seen him not tracking back after a run or pressing the same space as the midfield leaving the CB exposed. I haven’t seen him give away rash free kicks at critical times (unlike the twins) don’t think he has received many yellow cards either. In fact my only problem with him as a fullback is he doesn’t get forward enough. I honestly cannot level any criticism at either Smalling or Jones. They are young and will make some mistakes but on the whole Smalling, Jones DeGea, twins, Hernandez, Nani, Rooney, Cleverly to name a few look like the platform for a team that will bring home some more titles.

A big problem is a genuine lack of midfield options available for purchase.

Sneijder was, of course, the big one over the summer, but I don’t think he is right for United. He’s not disciplined enough to do any kind of defensive work and he essentially occupies the same position as Rooney does when we play 4-4-2. If we had Sneijder, he would only be useful as part of a 3 man midfield, alongside Carrick and Fletch/Ando. Therefore, the choice would be mainly between Sneijder and Hernandez, and only one of those guarantees goals.

Modric would have been good, but Spurs didn’t want to sell.

Charlie Adam, he’s not better than the options we already have. He’s basically Fletcher with corner-taking-ability (although, our corners are abysmal most of the time).

I think it’s not too far-fetched to thinbk that if Sir Alex has spent 50-60 million in total on two excellent midfield players, at least one of them `world class’, if not the best in the world in that position, and the other very, very good (possibly a brilliant, though not entirely proven young talent, a `world class’ player of the future — then we would be comparing our foray in Europe this year with 1999 and not 2005

I’m sorry but strategic errors of the kind that Sir Alex made in not strengthening midfield are (a) very, very hard to repair, since they have bad consequences that we only become aware of later and (b) these errors are a sign of a deep psychological malaise that messes totally with one’s capacity to make winning decisions.

Sir A will need to make some big strategic decisions for our team in the near future: in the past he took some big one’s that failed, but many more were relative successes, successes, or such huge successes the use of the word `genius’ was entirely in order. I do not see such genius in the 69 year old version of our once great manager. The genius that was there has gone, and seems to have been replaced by fear and hesitation.

If by January our play has not improved and we are out of the running for the league and the Cl and if he does not take radical action to deal with this by strengthening the squad, then I think the game will be up and so much of the goodwill that we have for him for the years of success will be eroded

Commenter said:
What level and type of discipline does he not have? From what I have seen he has the hallmarks of a great CB. Pace strength and good feet and more than adequate with his head. He seems to relish fullback and the opportunity to get forward (as most young competent defenders do) and rarely have I seen him not tracking back after a run or pressing the same space as the midfield leaving the CB exposed. I haven’t seen him give away rash free kicks at critical times (unlike the twins) don’t think he has received many yellow cards either. In fact my only problem with him as a fullback is he doesn’t get forward enough. I honestly cannot level any criticism at either Smalling or Jones. They are young and will make some mistakes but on the whole Smalling, Jones DeGea, twins, Hernandez, Nani, Rooney, Cleverly to name a few look like the platform for a team that will bring home some more titles.

all his fuck ups end up in goals for the other side – that is what is worrying. stop tossing him off. he is raw potential but miles behind de gea and smalling.

Other than the own goal I can’t really think of any particular goal which was really his fault and if he has been at fault it can’t have been more than 1 or 2. It’s not like he is shipping them in. Us conceding goals has been more about an unsettled back four and light central midfield. When Vidic and Ferd are not together or Rooney isn’t playing the spine breaks down. As a team we press well in wide positions and defend in 2 and 3’s along the flanks. Goals against us seem to be coming from central positions or fuck ups around the edge of the area due to different CB partnerships or giving the ball away cheaply in the centre. Not from pressing high up the pitch (apart from the city game) or wingers or fullbacks not tracking or indiscipline from the back four. Maybe a few lapses of concentration but I wouldn’t single out Jones more like Ferd. But building a CB partnership can take a couple of seasons. I’m not tossing him off nor anyone for that matter. Just credit where it is due. I thought we had dropped a bollock losing Pique but I’d take a 19 year old Jones over Pique especially in the Prem. Miles behind Smalling? I don’t think so.

uncleknobheadforfucksake said:
jones was playing great next to evans, then started making mistakes next to rio

or that he started bottling it 3 months into the season. he is qaulity but needs to chill the fuck out and stop trying to be Terry Butcher giving it some passion. Hold you line and stick to your day job – stop dancing into the box, exposing the back and then tiring yourself out so that you drop your concentration and let in a goal.

i like him but he has a rooney factor about him – wants too much of the ball and ends up being out of position and fucking up. with rooney it leads to less goals – with jones it leads to more goals in.

How will Pogba and Morrison get a game with Cleverley, Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson and Giggs higher up the pecking order?
Pogba and Morrison won’t play this season. They would’ve played by now, if Fergie had plans to.
We have Cleverley and Carrick who’re good enough for United, the rest are average.
But Carrick is always made the scapegoat cause he doesn’t play like Keane.
Fergie will need to buy this January for United to have any hope of winning a trophy this year. If not, Fergie’s obviously accepting the impact in the hope of leaving some positions available for Pogba, Morrison, Petrucci and Tuncliffe. If that’s the case United might as well take the hit and play them right now.

Carrick has had 2 good games. But when he’s pressed, he’s shite
But things really aren’t that bad. We certainly don’t need to ‘build for the future’ like Steve said. FFS we’ve got a squad full of top young players with more on the way in the youth team (who aren’t ready yet. Fergie bullshitted, surprise surprise)
And we CAN smash teams, but it leaves us vulnerable to an arse raping which eventually came against City. So now we’re being shit and boring, but winning which is great
The shite midfield is only a hugely major problem in the games against quality – or quality midfields or sensible teams who know what to do i.e. press Carrick. We can bodge til we sign someone in Jan – and are doing hence our strangely impressive start to the season; just 1 loss and 2 draws is good going for us

Ed makes a good pont when he speaks of replacing Hargreaves. Fergie’s always relied on wingers for pace and guile and the trequerista everyone is clamoring for has never been in the cards at OT. Remember, this is the manager who couldn’t find a place for Zidane in his team. I would love to see an Ozil, Sneijder, or Nasri slot in but I think we’d be in another Veron/Berba situation–a player who oozes class but slows the game down to such a point he compromises our style. What we need is a Jack Rodwell-type or defensive mid who can cover when Cleverly, Ando or Morrison/Pogba someday bomb forward. Everyone is upset over last summer but who did we really miss out on? Sneijder is not lighting it up and looks past his prime and Nasri can’t get a game at City because he can’t play together with Silva, the undisputed first-choice. Pretty soon not playing will endanger his France spot. As for us in the short term, I agree with Ed that it’s not 2005, the Basle game is a perfect “circle the wagons” Fergie game and the return of Vidic from suspension, the return to form of Fletcher (anybody notice how he’s scoring lately?) and return form injury of Cleverly will tell. Come on you Reds!

Alfonso Bedoya said:
Sid… we won’t sign anyone in January… at least no one we actually need.

mate, Ando is out until Feb – i think taggart has to sign someone in Jan now or start bringing the yooof in. it’s a crisis, no doubt about it. the flattest, boring, in effective central midfield in ages. i can’t even watch the shit that we are serving up at the moment.

danniitronix said:
mate, Ando is out until Feb – i think taggart has to sign someone in Jan now or start bringing the yooof in. it’s a crisis, no doubt about it. the flattest, boring, in effective central midfield in ages. i can’t even watch the shit that we are serving up at the moment.

You quote Rob Smythe there questioning Fergie after the 2005 exit yet fail to mention the pile of articles you wrote on why Fergie should get the sack at the time. You even posted a mocked-up P45 with his name on it titled “The Price of Failure”. You cnastantly wrote lengthy articles about how he’d lost it etc. Yet now you act as if you supported him all along. When I tried to stick up for him on United Rant you even went as far as to ban me from the forum!

JonnyC – utter nonsense. I charge you to prove any of this. Actually, I wrote a piece in the Guardian suggesting Ferguson’s time was at an end. This is a matter of public record and I haven’t ever tried to hide it so there’s no value gained by repeating this. Why should I – I’ve always ‘said it as I see it’. In fact its on the front page of this website – http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/about/. As for a ban the process then is the same as now – if anybody personally insults me, or threatens me, or my family, then they get a ban. Aside from that the site is totally open to disagreement. It’s a forum after all! Try reading the comments on here. Not everybody agrees with me and that’s fine.

TheCANTONA – actually I did, which if you had the good sense to search for the relevant article, you would have found. Articles prior to relaunch were deleted by 1&1 Internet. Ask them for an explanation, I didn’t get one.

Commenter said:
I’m not fussed if we don’t buy in january. I think pogba and morrison should get opportunities.

That will never happen this season.
He’ll play Jones there – Jones is good at right back but he hasn’t done well in midfield.
Play a defender in defence ffs, Jones will turn into O’Shea and end up becoming just the jack of all trades.
Look at the options.
Cleverley, Carrick, Fletcher/Ando, Rooney, Gibson, Giggs, Jones, Park – that’s probably Fergie’s order of preference in central midfield. That’s 9 options for 2-3 positions.

If your the same Ed as on the previous version of this site, the P45 article absolutely happend. I would prove it if there was an archive of all the articles on that site. As for the ban, I may have called you a disrespectful c*** for doing it. I think my name was JonnyCaut86 or something similar. It was shortly after I started using RoM instead.

theCANTONA – since 1981, actually. Oh and I’ve deleted several of your posts which were personally offensive to other readers. I’m not going to tolerate new commenters spouting homophobia simply because they don’t like somebody else’s opinion. Final warning.

Commenter said:
No need for rude action towards your reader, just grow some pair of balls and admit it if you WAS wrong then. Its fine, everybody made mistakes (including Rob ‘the great fan’ Smyth & Ed of UnitedRant)

maybe in two year times i’ll be a bitter old prick like you, living my life vicariously through various internet forums, pretending i’m some kind of zero-bullshit sage. if so, i’ll probably remember this comment and bring it up.

hopefully though i’ll still have a life and will have forgotten about it.