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Author
Topic: seroconversion or zeroconversion (Read 8404 times)

iam a 25 year old male and having extreme ocd or ars hiv. two close people in my family are manic depressant and very schitzophrenic. please understand by writng so much will help me cope with my problems thank you. ever since my first love i have been scared to death about hiv. i thought she gave me it for the longest time (6 mon) i thought i had it. till i tested negative i had alot of symptoms swollen nodes sinus infection ect. i learned alot from that experiance My Storyon feb 26 i may have had unprotected sex ith a woman of an unknown status. i convinced my gf to have a threesome and we did i remember alot but i had one blackout bc of the alchohol the only at risk thing i could have done was putting it in her or doing it for less then 45 sec but i dont remember at all if i even put it in her or not. i know the lessons of transmission so the other stuff i dont need to post. my gf couldnt tell me if i did or not bc she was sad and turned her head away and didnt want to watch while i was between the legs of another and she doesnt remember how long either (i know im horrible). be aware i am a cut male and was on top during the act and she was on her rag we later found that out wen my gf went downstairs and found her tampon string.my problems and symptoms wk 1 - all i was thinking about was hiv my gf did get sick but i know it was from ciguetara poisoning bc we ate farm raised salmon and hers was a little raw. that freaked me out. i did have a sore throat a little before the incident and still botherng me.wk 2 - i now spend 35 to 40 hours a week online researching about hiv ive prepard for the adap program and have let go of everything. i have tonsilitis and pain in my nodes with a white toung and extreme fatigue. even after a 9 hour sleep im still tired and have exteme anxiety. i notice two wierd blemishes on my upper abs one is 1cm round and a little brown i keep picking at it this may very well be maculopapular. i have also a very dry mouth. wk 3 - the peak of my anxiety now spending 40 - 50 hours researching. i have pains in wierd places (since i read ars nodes dont have pain only swelling they did not hurt anymore) extreme fatigue and so does my gf but she may not be innfected seeing she did not do any risky behavior and we had sex before i may have seroconverted. im breaking out ith pimples everywhere and my nodes have felt painful with no sweling. the nodes in my front neck are swollen and my gf got swollen on the fron of the neck for one day and went away. im losing alot of muscle. my girlfriend woke up with numb hands that lasted two hours after we got drunk one night. i have a few loose stools and i noticed 3 red dots in my mouth one day the next they were gone.wk 4 - i have learned alot about hiv and i still think about it all the time but my anxiety has went down and im finally accepting for what i may have. ive read every forum and post on this site which helped me alot. my prayers are for liz and her struggles. andy anne rod are very knowlegable. i have droped out of school and invested into a very expensive health ins plan. im am prepared for any result. wk 5 and 6 days - went to planparenthood to get tested they gave me and my girl antibiotics she may have a yeast innfection relating to ars. ive been having possible ureathra pains. are results come on the 19th.now - been taking antibiotics for 3 days and her pain in her puss went away (may have never been a yeast) the nodes in my throat are down to a bean from a penut. i have a sinus inffection now and bad allergies. i might have had a few low grade fevers and i woke up sweating one night. i noticed yesturday i had slight thrush in my mouth (a painful burning small white patch may have been from biotic) my gf has alergies and a sore throat. today my patch in my mouth is gone today. m gf is havng achs and pains and fatigue(she isnt skinny either). i also have a coughquesions 1. is it possible i have full blown aids bc stress suppresses the immune system making me moe vaunerable to rapid progression since the biotics are helping my low cd4 which is causing me to get more sick?2. could that brown dot under my skin be ks?3. are my chances bad seeing she is older and has lived in a big hiv usa city and has been cheated on and was on her rag?4. since the biotics are working does that mean i have a bacteria innfection not a viral.5. could allergies and stress becausing all these symptoms?6. why would i have these new symptoms after taking the biotic?

ive been reading alot of things that the earlier you start meds the better and that the side effects kill more people then the hiv and i am lost on this one 1.if i start meds at a high cdt4 count will that stop my tcells from bieng exahusted of fighting the hiv and stay higher longer?2.why should you,or should not start meds as early as 2 months into the infection?3.should i start treatment as early as possible?

Things are simpler by my thoughts that you cam imagine:1.Yes - and that would preserve all necessary subtypes of your CD4 cells

2.Because the drugs are toxic by itself and there is a battle beetwen a virus and a drug.If a doctors could find a drugs which are not so toxic you could start taking them as soon as possible(infected).

3.By all means .Today a line is about 300-350 CD4 cells but there are some people which has started from a 500 line and doing fine( if your doctor is OK with that fact).They just have to add some supplements to diminish a drug toxicity. AlP.S.: If I`m wrong please correct me........................

Thanx for the quick replyI agree with what your saying Do you think starting off with a fuzon regimin is too much? i read the fuzeon thread and philly (a member here) started meds around 500 and shot up to 1000 but i read the cost of fuzeon is over 4000 usd w/o ins and isr seem scarryDoes anybody think they have the ultimate regimin story of working phenominally?

If you think you may have had unprotected intercourse you need to get tested at 13 weeks past the most recent such incident.

None of your symptoms are in any way HIV specific. You need to discuss your symptoms with a doctor. In general neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms is ever the way to know about your HIV status accurately.

I urge you to see a therapist or other mental health professional to deal with the emotional aspects of your concerns. Dealing with that is beyond the scope of this Forum.

It doesn't work like that. You don't start off with Fuzeon - which is a class of drug only licensed for treatment experienced patients. Why would you want to have to take a drug you have to inject to start off with?

Starting treatment should be 1. EITHER one PI or one NNRTI2. With two NRTIs.

Making 3 drugs total. There is ongoing debate as to whether a PI or NNRTI-based regime is better. If you're starting off, and your virus doesn't have any nasty mutations, all of the first-line combinations will work very well for you. You will be undetectable (your virus totally suppressed), and your CD4 will climb. And you may only have to take 1 pill (in the US) once a day.

The argument on when to start meds is controversial, and cyclical. There used to be a "hit early, hit hard" approach in the late 90s, when some people hoped that treating aggressively in early infection might lead to a cure. It didn't work out that way and now we're left balancing a) protecting the immune system with b) the toxicities of meds.

As meds because better and less toxic, the line at which treatment is started gets higher. Before, it was worth trying to stay off meds as long as possible in order to try to avoid toxicity building up. Remember, once you've started meds - you don't stop unless it's really unavoidable.

But there is still some toxicity. So if you don't need them for another 5, 10, or more years, why put you're body through it? There is no proven benefit of starting anti-HIV treatment in primary infection, although some people think it alters the way in which the body fights the virus long-term.

When there has been a risky incident a negative at 6 weeks is considered to be very encouraging since all but the smallest number who will seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure. (The average time to seroconversion iss 22 days). A negative at 6 weeks should still be confirmed by re-testing at 13 weeks.

I don't undertstand your question about PEP. If you have taken PEP after a risky incident and you test negative then obviously PEP was effective. You don't take PEP after testing negative.

thank youif i start at 200 cdt4 would i ever see higher numbers then 400 if that?but if i start at 500 cdt4 dont people hit the 1000s? i just think all the years i go without meds my body gets tired of fighting infection so maybe if there is not so much infection to battle you may live longer with higher cdt4 im realy confused

Don't be confused. These really elementary questions like "When to start?" are still being debated and argued over.

I personally think that it's right that the pendulum is swinging back towards starting at higher numbers - 350, and maybe higher. There is a big study going on in the US to find out.

There is some evidence that the recovery of the immune system is slower if you start at very low CD4 counts. These people can still hit 1000, it just takes longer.

Remember that a normal CD4 can be anything between 400 and 1200 - so a lot of it depends on what is normal for you. If you had a CD4 count of 400 before getting HIV, you may not ever get any higher. But it's normal for you, protects you against infections, and works fine. So who cares?

Thanx for the quick replyI agree with what your saying Do you think starting off with a fuzon regimin is too much? i read the fuzeon thread and philly (a member here) started meds around 500 and shot up to 1000 but i read the cost of fuzeon is over 4000 usd w/o ins and isr seem scarryDoes anybody think they have the ultimate regimin story of working phenominally?

uh... no, you are reading my regimen experience incorrectly. I've been diagnosed since 1993. My cd4's were 500 when I started fuzeon a year ago, not when I was diagnosed. When I was diagnosed my cd4's were slightly under 200 so in fact it took me over a decade of other HIV drugs to get anywhere near 500.

btw k20a2: I know you PM'd me asking for my comments here, but that is all I will offer. As far as your original question I will go no further, as I have been on HIV meds so long that I am not very up to date about treatments for the newly infect, and what is the current "best" advice for when to begin. It's obviously not anything I have to worry about, nor have I had to for 15 years.

Iíve been participating in a clinical trial which is part of a much larger effort to explore whether thereís any benefit to beginning meds during seroconversion. Last week, the nurse practitioner told me there is evidence that starting meds during seroconversion is advantageous. Apparently, early treatment seems to preserve much of the immune system functioning, which is destroyed in the first few weeks of the infection. She says a scientific paper showing preliminary results is expected this summer. The NP also said that starting meds after seroconversion doesnít seem to produce the same benefit Ė the research results still indicate it is best to wait.

I am not making a recommendation one way or another on when to begin treatment, as there is no conclusive proof at this point in favor of either direction. Each person needs to make his/her own decision based upon the full range of evidence, and ability to handle the side effects. I started meds during seroconversion, am tolerating them well, and have good test results, so I plan to continue treatment following conclusion of the trial.

i was infected for a few years before starting meds. i was feeling sick and loosing weight but had no OIs. my CD4 was 500 something and my viral load was 8300. my VL was never over 20,000 but my doctor was pretty sure i'd feel better. i started Atripla and had all the CNS issues it comes with i just changed 2 weeks ago to Reyataz bootsed Norvir with Truvada and life has been so much better. i no longer need Restoril to sleep. i had a bad go at first i should have dropped the Sustiva. knowing now that Reyataz combo causes me no ill effects i would have started right when i found out but i put off starting out of fear of side effects. i still worry a bit about the longterm side effects but as far as the short i feel.......good.wow! hey i feel good. hey everybody i finally feel good again.

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

The new thread (this one anyway) you started was in the Treatment forum - where you should NOT be posting unless you have an hiv diagnosis, which you do NOT and are unlikely to get.

When you read through the Welcome thread, you will see that you should NOT be posting in the forums meant for people who have been diagnosed with hiv. I will let your threads in Activism and Nutrition stand, but do NOT post in those forums again. Thank you for your cooperation.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

As Andy said, you need to test at three months past your last incident of unprotected intercourse - and that includes your girlfriend.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

ur righti get my results in 8 days ill let you guys know what happen whats wierd is i have convinced myself i am hiv poz snd ive planned my future for it and havent even gotten my results bak yet. its funny how i sit here on this site reading every post in this forum and already know the answer to their question bc im so educated on this stuff and when i read mine in a bias view it doesnt sound like i have it does it? as for now and the next 2 more mon i am hiv poz its easier to think this way bc when i do get the poz result i wont be n shock.

can u get an oi during seroconversion? i have a brownish/green spot thats been on my abs 2 weeks since exposure. i called plannedparenthood they said that i am neg for ghon, chlymedia, syph. i would have been happy if i had one of those it would explain my symptoms. they said hiv reslts arent in yet i said how long does it usually take she said one week and mine is on one week and two days which must mean i tested POZ on the elisa and they are confirming it with the western blot.

1. No, opportunistic infections do NOT occur during seroconversion. If they come along it is way further down the line on the HIV spectrum.

2. Labs run on their own time and are faster and slower with results because of their internal workings. Having to wait longer for a result should never be (mis)interpreted as signaling an unhappy result on your test. REALLY!

3. You need to set about getting productively busy during these last few waiting days. It will make the time pass more quickly than you may imagine right now. Also REALLY!

Opportunistic Infections happen because the immune system has been ravaged by HIV, not during seroconversion.

I got my HIV+ results back in less than 48 hours. I had a negative test take over 2 weeks to get. It depends on the lab and its workload NOT on your specimen.

Take a step back and relax a bit. Nothing you can say or do will change the result of the test anyway so you are worrying needlessly at this point.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

thank you for the rapid response i was wondering how to cope with this. i cant keep my mind off hiv and eyes off the internet i dont have health ins or money to seek mental help i need it sooooo very badly. how can i help myself what can i do to deal with this every little thing reminds me of hiv. ive lost so much already and im not even diagnosed. ive lost school, friends, sleep, and sanity. ive tured to god and even he cant help right now

hello again andy, ann, any hiv expertscan u get lipo during seroconversion? i have not been looking like my self at all lately my stomach is streatchy and one of my legs is a little skinnier with no muscle

You need to stop right here and now with this drama. You're on the verge of getting a time out. Get productively busy right, and I don't mean surfing the net for more dis-information.

Despite all of your angst and bearing in mind the details of your incidents, I still think it is likely you will test negative. Then you wil be forced to deal with your life.

And no, don't even think of asking me why I expect you test negative.

Now, get busy with other stuff and it will be fine thing if we don't hear from you until after you get your test result. If your physical problems seem so dire then go to an emergency room of any hospital. They have to take care of you.

wow i did not expect this All worriers look at all my symptoms i still tested negative at 6 weeks it shows and proves severe stress supresses the immune system which can cause every symptom of seroconversionstudies show sever stress can trigger lupus which your bodys immune system attacks it self. lupus and ars have the same symptoms! questions for expertswhat are my chances testing positive at 13 weeks?

Most will serocovert before 6 weeks so its HIGHLY unlikely that your result would change. To get it confirmed you do need to take a test at 13 weeks.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

It happens yes, but not often. Thats why the 13 week is there. It is conclusive.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

its officially 3 mon. now i havent had anything wierd but today i have swollen glands in my groin and tingley sensations in my hands and feet that first neg. really helped me get through this but im affraid like anybody else this is going to turn positive....i know if i am going to remain neg i will be motivated to help all pozies from the education of this site and i thank you and please pray for my next test result

There's really no need for prayer. You're more likely to walk out of your house today and find a million dollar winning lottery ticket lying on your doorstep than you are to go on to test positive after your six week negative result.

Confirm your negative result next week and move on with your life, remembering to use condoms correctly and consistently.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts