On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 at 19:15:59 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8
> features have been revealed.
>
> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are
> actually compiled to native code as well, before being made
> available for download.
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
>
> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code compiler
> for C# (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the
> enterprise. :\
>
> --
> Paulo
I don't think they're going to. There are many reasons of keeping
assemblies in easy to verify and operate bytecode, and ngen has
been here for quite a while without much impact.

On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 07:19:23 UTC, thedeemon wrote:
> On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 at 19:15:59 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8
>> features have been revealed.
>>
>> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are
>> actually compiled to native code as well, before being made
>> available for download.
>>
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
>>
>> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code compiler
>> for C# (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the
>> enterprise. :\
>>
>> --
>> Paulo
>
> I don't think they're going to. There are many reasons of
> keeping assemblies in easy to verify and operate bytecode, and
> ngen has been here for quite a while without much impact.
The problem with ngen is that it has a very basic optimizer, and
there are some restrictions to which type of bytecode (no
reflection tricks) is ngen-able. Those restrictions are
artificial, other C# native code compilers (Mono, Sing#) don't
have them.
--
Paulo

Le 30/10/2012 20:15, Paulo Pinto a écrit :
> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8 features have
> been revealed.
>
> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are actually
> compiled to native code as well, before being made available for download.
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
>
>
> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code compiler for C#
> (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the enterprise. :\
>
> --
> Paulo
This compiler in the cloud things seems really scary. All my apps will
not work anymore if microsoft decide so ?

On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 23:20:15 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> Le 30/10/2012 20:15, Paulo Pinto a écrit :
>> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8
>> features have
>> been revealed.
>>
>> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are
>> actually
>> compiled to native code as well, before being made available
>> for download.
>>
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
>>
>>
>> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code compiler
>> for C#
>> (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the
>> enterprise. :\
>>
>> --
>> Paulo
>
> This compiler in the cloud things seems really scary. All my
> apps will not work anymore if microsoft decide so ?
I really dislike this cloud trend. It seems that everyone wants
to sell me software as a service somehow.
From my lastest projects in the Fortune 500 world, I can tell
everyone is jumping with both feets into cloud stuff.
For the lovers of software freedom this is scary. In a world of
software as service and patent trolls, having the source code
available seems to no longer be enough.
--
Paulo

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:43:10 +0100
"Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp@progtools.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 23:20:15 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> > Le 30/10/2012 20:15, Paulo Pinto a écrit :
> >> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8
> >> features have
> >> been revealed.
> >>
> >> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are
> >> actually
> >> compiled to native code as well, before being made available
> >> for download.
> >>
> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
> >>
> >>
> >> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code compiler
> >> for C#
> >> (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the
> >> enterprise. :\
> >>
> >> --
> >> Paulo
> >
> > This compiler in the cloud things seems really scary. All my
> > apps will not work anymore if microsoft decide so ?
>
> I really dislike this cloud trend. It seems that everyone wants
> to sell me software as a service somehow.
>
> From my lastest projects in the Fortune 500 world, I can tell
> everyone is jumping with both feets into cloud stuff.
>
> For the lovers of software freedom this is scary. In a world of
> software as service and patent trolls, having the source code
> available seems to no longer be enough.
>
I feel exactly the same way. (Hell, that's one of the reasons I never
liked web apps.)
A few months ago, I was looking into cross-platform 2D mobile game
frameworks and it came down to Corona vs Marmalade. One of the big
reasons we went with Marmalade was because Corona was 100% compiled on
*their* servers, which lead to various uncomfortable consequences.
I think it's all happening because MBAs are in charge, and the one
thing they know and like best is buzzwords. And "cloud" is the
biggest buzzword right now.
I really hate the word "cloud" anyway. All it is, is a stupid renaming
of the words "Internet", "hosted" and "distributed", and which one it
means is usually dependent on context. "Cloud" is my #1 least favorite
word right ahead of "tween" (except when used for animation) and using
"crazy" as an adverb.

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 18:11:17 -0400
Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe@semitwist.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:43:10 +0100
> "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp@progtools.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 23:20:15 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
> > > Le 30/10/2012 20:15, Paulo Pinto a écrit :
> > >> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8
> > >> features have
> > >> been revealed.
> > >>
> > >> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are
> > >> actually
> > >> compiled to native code as well, before being made available
> > >> for download.
> > >>
> > >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code compiler
> > >> for C#
> > >> (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the
> > >> enterprise. :\
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Paulo
> > >
> > > This compiler in the cloud things seems really scary. All my
> > > apps will not work anymore if microsoft decide so ?
> >
> > I really dislike this cloud trend. It seems that everyone wants
> > to sell me software as a service somehow.
> >
> > From my lastest projects in the Fortune 500 world, I can tell
> > everyone is jumping with both feets into cloud stuff.
> >
> > For the lovers of software freedom this is scary. In a world of
> > software as service and patent trolls, having the source code
> > available seems to no longer be enough.
> >
>
> I feel exactly the same way. (Hell, that's one of the reasons I never
> liked web apps.)
>
> A few months ago, I was looking into cross-platform 2D mobile game
> frameworks and it came down to Corona vs Marmalade. One of the big
> reasons we went with Marmalade was because Corona was 100% compiled on
> *their* servers, which lead to various uncomfortable consequences.
>
> I think it's all happening because MBAs are in charge, and the one
> thing they know and like best is buzzwords. And "cloud" is the
> biggest buzzword right now.
>
> I really hate the word "cloud" anyway. All it is, is a stupid renaming
> of the words "Internet", "hosted" and "distributed", and which one it
> means is usually dependent on context. "Cloud" is my #1 least favorite
> word right ahead of "tween" (except when used for animation) and using
> "crazy" as an adverb.
>
Speaking of all this:
http://dilbert.com/2012-10-21/
That summarizes it perfectly.

On Thursday, 1 November 2012 at 22:15:49 UTC, Nick Sabalausky
wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 18:11:17 -0400
> Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe@semitwist.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:43:10 +0100
>> "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp@progtools.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 23:20:15 UTC, deadalnix
>> > wrote:
>> > > Le 30/10/2012 20:15, Paulo Pinto a écrit :
>> > >> Now Build 2012 is happening and the new Windows Phone 8
>> > >> features have
>> > >> been revealed.
>> > >>
>> > >> One of the most interesting is that .NET applications are
>> > >> actually
>> > >> compiled to native code as well, before being made
>> > >> available for download.
>> > >>
>> > >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-release-of-the-net-framework-for-windows-phone-8.aspx
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Assuming Microsoft eventually releases a native code
>> > >> compiler for C#
>> > >> (better than NGEN), this will make D use harder in the
>> > >> enterprise. :\
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Paulo
>> > >
>> > > This compiler in the cloud things seems really scary. All
>> > > my apps will not work anymore if microsoft decide so ?
>> >
>> > I really dislike this cloud trend. It seems that everyone
>> > wants to sell me software as a service somehow.
>> >
>> > From my lastest projects in the Fortune 500 world, I can
>> > tell everyone is jumping with both feets into cloud stuff.
>> >
>> > For the lovers of software freedom this is scary. In a world
>> > of software as service and patent trolls, having the source
>> > code available seems to no longer be enough.
>> >
>>
>> I feel exactly the same way. (Hell, that's one of the reasons
>> I never
>> liked web apps.)
>>
>> A few months ago, I was looking into cross-platform 2D mobile
>> game
>> frameworks and it came down to Corona vs Marmalade. One of the
>> big
>> reasons we went with Marmalade was because Corona was 100%
>> compiled on
>> *their* servers, which lead to various uncomfortable
>> consequences.
>>
>> I think it's all happening because MBAs are in charge, and the
>> one
>> thing they know and like best is buzzwords. And "cloud" is the
>> biggest buzzword right now.
>>
>> I really hate the word "cloud" anyway. All it is, is a stupid
>> renaming
>> of the words "Internet", "hosted" and "distributed", and which
>> one it
>> means is usually dependent on context. "Cloud" is my #1 least
>> favorite
>> word right ahead of "tween" (except when used for animation)
>> and using
>> "crazy" as an adverb.
>>
>
> Speaking of all this:
> http://dilbert.com/2012-10-21/
>
> That summarizes it perfectly.
Great! :)

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:11:17PM -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:43:10 +0100
> "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp@progtools.org> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 at 23:20:15 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
[...]
> > > This compiler in the cloud things seems really scary. All my
> > > apps will not work anymore if microsoft decide so ?
> >
> > I really dislike this cloud trend. It seems that everyone wants
> > to sell me software as a service somehow.
> >
> > From my lastest projects in the Fortune 500 world, I can tell
> > everyone is jumping with both feets into cloud stuff.
> >
> > For the lovers of software freedom this is scary. In a world of
> > software as service and patent trolls, having the source code
> > available seems to no longer be enough.
[...]
Exactly, so what if you have the full source code if you have no control
over the server and no control over your data?
> I feel exactly the same way. (Hell, that's one of the reasons I never
> liked web apps.)
[...]
> I think it's all happening because MBAs are in charge, and the one
> thing they know and like best is buzzwords. And "cloud" is the
> biggest buzzword right now.
Yeah no kidding, talk about castles in the air. :-P
> I really hate the word "cloud" anyway. All it is, is a stupid renaming
> of the words "Internet", "hosted" and "distributed", and which one it
> means is usually dependent on context. "Cloud" is my #1 least favorite
> word right ahead of "tween" (except when used for animation) and using
> "crazy" as an adverb.
It's another one of those overhyped bandwagons of questionable lasting
value, that people are jumping on left right and center just because
it's a buzzword. Nevermind the privacy issues, scalability issues,
software freedom issues, etc..
T
--
The most powerful one-line C program: #include "/dev/tty" -- IOCCC

On 11/3/2012 8:54 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> It's another one of those overhyped bandwagons of questionable lasting
> value, that people are jumping on left right and center just because
> it's a buzzword.
I'm so glad I never hear "Web 2.0" anymore.