catmoon wrote:An intriguing theory, but it does not accomodate the occurrence of similar sensations where there are no sinuses, for instance the crown of the head.

Lice? Dandruff? Come on people I was only being semi-serious. Again we are showing an attachment to sensation and trying to justify the sensation as something important in order to further bolster Captain Ego!

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The "third eye" should show up in thermography as a pronounced warm spot on the face, and only at times when the meditator reports the presence of the "third eye" sensation.

Should I be facecious (literally) and start talking about my fourth eye? And what about men's fifth eye (something about a trouser snake with one eye) which is, in the majority of cases, mens most important eye!

Get over it people, it's just a sensation. If it was important the Buddha would have spent a few hundred Sutta and Sutra (and then a few 100,000 Shastras) talking about it. Is there a scriptural reference to its importance somewhere? Well?

I fled Him, down the nights and down the days; I fled Him, down the arches of the years; I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways, Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears, I hid from Him, and under running laughter. Up vistaed hopes I sped; And shot, precipitated, Adown Titanic glooms of chasmèd fears, From those strong Feet that followed, followed after. But with unhurrying chase, And unperturbèd pace, Deliberate speed, majestic instancy, They beat - and a Voice beat - More instant than the Feet - ‘All things betray thee, who betrayest Me.’

catmoon wrote:An intriguing theory, but it does not accomodate the occurrence of similar sensations where there are no sinuses, for instance the crown of the head.

I believe, but of course cannot prove, that certain forms of concentration cause the dilation of blood vessels in the area focussed on. This is a falsifiable idea. I wonder if anyone has done thermal imaging of meditator's faces? The "third eye" should show up in thermography as a pronounced warm spot on the face, and only at times when the meditator reports the presence of the "third eye" sensation.

Things like this are indeed being measured at the moment by meditation researchers. Using MRI though, not thermography - that's a really interesting idea.

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumalthe modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

Well if someone produces a thermogram showing a pronounced hot spot in the third eye postion, the New Agers are gonna go hog wild with it claiming it as proof of, um proof of, well, something or other anyways!

It's interesting to know why it happens; but if it happens, while you are meditating, don't dwell on it but refocus on your meditation. It is a distraction and should be treated like other distractions.

Kyosan wrote:It's interesting to know why it happens; but if it happens, while you are meditating, don't dwell on it but refocus on your meditation. It is a distraction and should be treated like other distractions.

wellll I dunno. I find the sensation kind of pleasant, so when doing jhana meditation, at the point where one switches focus to a pleasant sensation I sometimes use the "third eye" sensation as the focus.

Kyosan wrote:It's interesting to know why it happens; but if it happens, while you are meditating, don't dwell on it but refocus on your meditation. It is a distraction and should be treated like other distractions.

Personally, I think it's important since I consider it to be a good indicator that I'm grasping and should drop everything. It's like it's an exaggeration of the feeling of "I am me, and I am in my head". Considering it's located in the same position as the part of the brain that is probably responsible for creating that at the neurological level I don't think that's a coincidence (not that I think the mind is the brain...).

Interesting that as meditation progresses the feeling of "I" seems to drop to the heart. Moving fixation away from this point may well be related to why the fourth empowerment in a guru yoga visualization is where it is and why vase breathing has its focus in a similar place.

Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumalthe modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

Kyosan wrote:It's interesting to know why it happens; but if it happens, while you are meditating, don't dwell on it but refocus on your meditation. It is a distraction and should be treated like other distractions.

wellll I dunno. I find the sensation kind of pleasant, so when doing jhana meditation, at the point where one switches focus to a pleasant sensation I sometimes use the "third eye" sensation as the focus.

That makes sense if it works. When I made the statement, I was thinking about the kind of meditation where you just focus on one thing.

ryu wrote:Has anybody ever hard felt a funny sensation just above the centre of the eyes when meditating. Ryu

Yup, sometimes it follows you around for a while after meditation. Similar sensations can occur on the bridge of the nose and at the crown of the head. I don't know what it is, but I'd wager that the sensation is the source of all the "third eye" stories.

A similar sensation is mentioned in the Śrāvakabhūmi as a sign of increasing pliancy:

Furthermore, due to cultivation and training in śamatha and vipaśyanā, there is physical and mental clarity, physical and mental suppleness, and physical and mental pliancy. The previous subtle and slight one pointedness of mind, and physical and mental pliancy, gradually increase and are able to induce strong [physical and mental pliancy] which is easily perceived. One pointedness of mind, and physical and mental pliancy, are due to the development of the forces, that induce the path of expediency. At this time, after a short time they shall become strong and powerful. This is physical and mental pliancy and one pointedness of mind that is easily [perceived]. Continuing thus, up until these aforementioned characteristics, the crown of the head will seem heavy, yet this is not a negative or afflicting sensation. Due to this sign arising internally, one takes delight in severing that which can obstruct. One attains elimination of all the grades of defilements, mental coarseness and stolidity, one is able to counter all of these. Physical suppleness and physical pliancy permeate throughout the entire body, and one feels imbued with strength. When this initially arises, it causes the mind to become exuberant, causes the mind to experience ecstatic bliss. The conjoined activity of bliss, causes the mind to become blissful. The nature of the object manifests before the mind. Subsequent to this, the arising of pliancy and strength gradually evens and pervades, a wondrous sense of pliancy accompanies the body, and acts throughout the body. Due to this cause and condition mental exuberance subsequently gradually diminishes. Due to the maintaining focus of śamatha, the mind courses passively on the object. From this onwards, throughout the practice of yoga, the initial cultivation of the practice is known as possessing mental attention.

While this translation by Ven. Huifeng is accurate, the sensation can be described in different ways and can occur at different places such as the forehead or between the eyebrows. Also, compare with the description given in the Vimuttimagga in the context of ānāpānasmṛti:

To the yogin who attends to the incoming breath with mind that is cleansed of the nine lesser defilements the sign arises with a pleasant feeling similar to that which is produced in the action of spinning cotton or silk cotton. Also, it is likened to the pleasant feeling produced by a breeze. Thus in breathing in and out, air touches the nose or the lip and causes the setting-up of air perception mindfulness. This does not depend on colour or form. This is called the sign. If the yogin develops the sign and increases it at the nose-tip, between the eye-brows, on the forehead or establishes it in several places, he feels as if his head were filled with air. Through increasing in this way his whole body is charged with bliss.