thegreekdog wrote:Furthermore, if you are in a state such as New York, where polling shows that the president has a commanding lead over Romney, a vote for Mitt Romney would be just as wasted as a vote for Gary Johnson.

That depends. But even then, unless you are planning to go jump off the line for the other elections and vote for Gary/republicans for everything else your vote can have a coattail effect. There are several congressional races that are very close and can easily cause the Democrat to fall. NY1 is my area and the Democratic Candidate Tim Bishop is on the ropes. His victory was only by a hundred votes back in 2010.

Senator Gillibrand has a strong contender in Long. She can't fall back on her gender because her opponent is also a woman.

So it's absolutely vital that the Republican base gets their bottoms off of the chairs and goes to vote this year, even in NY.

Besides, I'm still hoping that this whole Big Gulp Revolution is going to turn NY Red this year.

I understand what you're saying. I'm saying we shouldn't limit ourselves to two parties in determining who we vote for. What influences your decision on who to vote for? Here's a partial list:

(1) The most charismatic person.(2) The person that most conforms to your points of view.(3) The political party of which you are a member.(4) The person that is least like the person that you dislike. (5) The person who you think will win.

So, my youngest sister voted for Obama in 2008 because it was her first election and because of (1) and (5). My brother and I will vote for Gary Johnson because of (2) and (3). My parents will vote for Mitt Romney because of (4). I think a lot of people vote for someone based on (4). Far be it for me to tell someone why they should vote, but I think (4) is a terrible reason to vote for someone. And that seems to be how a lot of people vote; for evidence, just look at Exhibit A (Phatscotty) and Exhibit B (political races which focus on negative things about candidates, rather than the candidates' plans themselves).

I'll be the first to admit, I'm getting old. I'm getting immune to political BS, from any party.

(1) Charisma is nice but only a modicum is needed. Any more turns the person into a self admiring twit who would do anything to remain popular. No way.

(2) Conforming to my point of view is important. But as a criteria other factors can trump it. This is especially true when you get to positions like POTUS.

(3) There are some people in my own party I am not particularly fond of. (I generally am not fond of those in the other party to a greater extent, however.)

(4) It's odd. The people I dislike are either flat out crooks (the previous supervisor of my town whose family was in the carting business was constantly making deals with sand miners to illegally cart sand in violation of all sorts of environmental laws ... would you believe he was a "Democrat?") or just flat old incompitent (the current congressman was previously the head of a college, while he used his position to hire his family he ran the college to the ground and as a result the college is no more). People who I am confident will "get the job done" will get my vote.

(5) Well that's silly. If I think he will win then my lone vote isn't going to do anything. It's whether or not I think he CAN win. That's not particulary easy to determine.

Remember, right before the USA credit rating got downgraded for the first time in history, when Joe Biden said this?

Well, you see, PS. When the government spends money, it creates jobs, which puts money in people's pockets. This money is spent on goods and services, and this gets the economy going. Couple that with printing money to lower interest rates, and you'll see that this economy has been booming after the recession ended in 2009.

Phatscotty wrote:Biden is gettin his ass whooped! All he has done is sit there and look stupid, smiling and laughing, as if his only tactic is to make it sound like the Tea Party genius next to him is a 3rd grader....

I think this is the knockout blow that puts Romney over the top

Somehow, I don't find you a credible source.

I think it's been a good debate. And one thing I'll say for both of these guys is that they both seem FAR MORE PERSONABLE than either Obama or Romney did.

I think that to this point, Biden is doing better, but I don't think Ryan has done badly either.

The one area that Biden has really pissed me off, though, is that he KEEPS FUCKING INTERRUPTING! Stop that shit, Joe Biden. f*ck, man. It's disrespectful.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

I liked this debate much better than the last. I think the moderator did a good job keeping them on topic and asked some good questions. I feel I understand the candidates positions better. I also quite enjoyed Biden's Jim Halpert moments.