Will wrote:Speaking of skin colour, how do y'all treat matching up skin colour "parts" to give the illusion of skin to a wrestler's actual skin colour?

Like say you want flame designs on trunks, and use a skin-coloured t-shirt to cover up the midsection and make it look like skin. How do y'all match up the skin colours? I admittedly struggle with that.

Hopefully, they'll just add the adjustedly cropped parts soon like they did in the thigh section.

Will wrote:Speaking of skin colour, how do y'all treat matching up skin colour "parts" to give the illusion of skin to a wrestler's actual skin colour?

Like say you want flame designs on trunks, and use a skin-coloured t-shirt to cover up the midsection and make it look like skin. How do y'all match up the skin colours? I admittedly struggle with that.

I carefully match the color I'm aiming for to the part I'm putting it on, making sure it connects well to the skin color around it, and also catches the right amount of light or dark depending on where I'm working on it. For example, if I'm making ripped jeans, the skin part is going to be darker than a waist "wrestler" piece covering up the upper stars for the waist piece. It's more of an art than a science, and that's something I'm good with.

Will wrote:Speaking of skin colour, how do y'all treat matching up skin colour "parts" to give the illusion of skin to a wrestler's actual skin colour?

Like say you want flame designs on trunks, and use a skin-coloured t-shirt to cover up the midsection and make it look like skin. How do y'all match up the skin colours? I admittedly struggle with that.

Wonderland wrote:Eyeball it.

Pretty much this.

I've written out some tips on how to use the skin tone effect to create some interesting looks. Everything is spoiler'd so it doesn't take up a ton of screen space for those that don't really care about it.

Originally I was using Base 1 for these kind of things, but I noticed pretty quickly that the body parts don't really look "fleshy", so I've ended up giving my edits different Base parts depending on the skin tone. If they're lighter skinned, I'll stick with Base 2, otherwise I'll use Base 3 or 4 depending on how deep of a color I want the skin to be. Usually Base 2 and 3 are what I use if I'm doing the simulated skin tone effects, like the chest triangle or the thigh-high tights.

I'll start off with Jessica Shields. She has a light skin tone and has both the chest triangle and the thigh high tights. I eyeball the color of the skin using the chest triangle part. I prefer to set this to 25% highlight as most, if not all of my edits are 25% highlight on all of their base parts. Some are shinier than others, but that's going off on a tangent. You'll notice that I use the same color for both the chest triangle and the thigh piece.

Here's how she looks in the edit creation screen:

Here are her Chest layers:

Here are her Thigh layers:

I use the same Thigh layer effects for one of LUMINA's attires, seen here:

These are the Thigh layers for this attire:

This is another one of LUMINA's Attires. It uses another skin tone effect, this time using the bodysuit layers to make the whole lower body skin colored, and then using some other layers to create a high-angled one-piece suit. I used the belt layer to hide the weird shape mismatches. This attire also uses the thigh high tights trick.

Here are the layers for the waist:

And on her final attire, she has chap-like tights:

It uses the same idea as the thigh high effect, but uses a different part:

On some edits, I use the Flame waist layers. Usually I do this trick on female edits. I'll use the two Flame layers, then on top of that I'll use the Wrestling layer and make that skin tone colored. Since there's no belly button, I usually hide it with a belt.

Here's Dragonetta as an example:

And here's the layer list for that:

Using the same idea, you can flip the colors around to make a Finn Balor Demon-esque look. This is usually the only time I use the Base 1 as I don't believe it's possible to recreate this whole look using a different base. I used this trick to create Lady Anti-Venom's appearance.

Here's how that looks:

This is the layers list:

The_PR_Dragon wrote:Dragons, Emus, and Wolves are all hearing impaired. Sounds about right.

Here's something I seem to be relying on a bit more, the RNGEEZUS logic strategy. It utilizes identical number splits across certain slots, and RNG manipulation. (as much as one can manipulate completely random seeds, anyway)

Now I wouldn't recommend this for front grapples, given all the slots and how often it's utilized, unless you can pull it off.

This is basically used for when you wanna see a certain pattern, while letting the RNG decide the rest, or have RNG do most of the work for you, saving you some trouble.

Taken from Professor Voodoo's Back Grapple large damage as of October 7, 2017

Now if you read this, you'd see that the low blow (which is practical in a real fight), and the full nelson face buster are almost identical, since they're used around the same. Then we go to the face crusher and reverse DDT, which have less % on them, but identical numbers, since there's really no need for a bias on either one, and it's best to let RNG work there. Then we have the Irish Whip and Neck Smash being used quite less, but still so for a little unpredictability, but once again, there's really no good reason for one to have bias over the other, and RNG should be capable of handling that portion. It's never a bad idea to let the RNG do your dirty work, especially when it may be a needless hassle for one move to have excess bias over the other, when it really doesn't need to, or have all the moves have a more complex order of descending numbers, (unless they use random variety) when RNG is likely to fudge it more often than not.

It's not enough to look like an edit to be an edit. You have to act like them too.

I used to load the priorities with the three biggest moves my edit has but I now find it useful to sometimes have a smaller signature move that is credible enough to get a fall but basic enough to appear early in the match. I then place the pin logic at around 100 low / 70 high.

I found this manufacturers more near falls and hides the division between early damage pins that have no chance of a fall and late damage pins that are designed to get a fall.

Kristofferson wrote:I used to load the priorities with the three biggest moves my edit has but I now find it useful to sometimes have a smaller signature move that is credible enough to get a fall but basic enough to appear early in the match. I then place the pin logic at around 100 low / 70 high.

I found this manufacturers more near falls and hides the division between early damage pins that have no chance of a fall and late damage pins that are designed to get a fall.

We often don't put submission moves in the large damage section because we don't want them to abruptly end matches, but you can set it to 0 percent, and then link it as a priority off a rare taunt in the downed position. That way your edit will do a taunt that signifies he is about to end the match, and follow up with their submission.

DM_PSX wrote:We often don't put submission moves in the large damage section because we don't want them to abruptly end matches, but you can set it to 0 percent, and then link it as a priority off a rare taunt in the downed position. That way your edit will do a taunt that signifies he is about to end the match, and follow up with their submission.

That is a good one, I actually built one of my original edits around a similar idea. Jean-Pierre Mutombo has one taunt that leads to a signature elevated crab at the feet(either face up or face down), but he has zero logic to go for it without the taunt. He also has an elbow drop pin finisher that only happens if he links it with a taunt. Face down, it's a splash to the back, which is another of his signatures. It's fascinating what we can do with priorities.

Also think I gave Muhammad Hassan a priority using Arms/Hands Provocation into medium at head. That will either lead to the camel clutch finisher at face down, or mounted knuckle arrow at face up, both of which have their own uses.

When I get around to making Rusev, I realized I can accurately have him do his entire finishing sequence with priorities. Priority 1 - Flexing taunt -> Large at feet(stomp to back/stomach)Priority 2 - Stomp to Back - Large at head(Accolade)

That should work seamlessly, if he has the opponent face down, he does the taunt, and then stomps the back setting up the Accolade.

Never put 100% pin after regular finishers or signatures, because chance to score victory after one of those is extremely low. For equally matched opponents big damage state occurs around 7:10-8:30. And if your edit hits his finishing move and goes for pin, then they can score 2.9 if Ref set to Fast Move Speed and Fast or Medium Fast Fall Count. It's not guaranteed to succeed in squash match. If your wrestler parameters considerably higher than opposition and their spirit skill are low, only and only then you have high chance of fast victory after one finisher before the 6 minute mark.

Comment: I had FPWW tournament, in which Mike Awesome finished all 3 fights super fast. 2 Awesome Bombs in a row for critical on Tanaka in 1st round. Chokebomb to Ziggler in the 2nd round after some moves and win at 0:48. Awesome Bomb to Great Muta in the finals and win at ~2 minutes. That type of stuff is really rare even in tournaments.

Discretion doesn't affect high springboard moves, over the top rope to the outside running moves, avalanche moves, top rope moves chance to happen. The most important factors are:

1. CPU difficulty level -- affects the CPU stats depletion rate and smart more conservative usage of stamina, so less extreme type of moves. Parameters and skills matter more on higher difficulties -- CPU can consistently block punches from level 7 fighter if you have 3 punch defense on lower levels, but almost never on level 8-10. You see reverses of big moves executed early on very rarely even with 0% Ukemi if a wrestler on receiving end has lower parameters, broke submissions rest holds and pins faster due to parameters and skills higher influence. I recommend difficulty 4 for the perfect balance between reversals, high spots, heightened submissions times and CPU sticks to the game plan. Also, turn off rope breaks, since they spoiling high flying moves into pins and destroy match pacing in general, so you won't miss climbing to the ropes feature, which appears at CPU level 8+.

2. Current Recovery skill of your opponent -- determines how fast he will get up after bumps, lowers with receiving damage. Possible to stay down longer that opponent if your character accumulated more damage, cooldown timer doesn't go down when CPU performs taunt before executing the move;

3. The amount of moves your opponent eaten in a row -- gets up faster after selling strings of moves, can hit only 1-2 moves in a row on the grounded opponent;

4. Specific moves executing range and some kind of ToHitChance RNG modifier -- for example Phoenix Splash is very hard to perform for CPU, because it requires close distance to the corner and have high negative bonus, and therefore should be set to higher percentage -- like 30%, if your go-to move is 25%, your 25% will be executed like 3 times more anyway. Super Diving Headbutt have a lot of functionality -- it looks like splash if you hit it right near turnbuckles on face up opponent or in any place when your target lying face down and have a crazy range up to the center of the ring and a bit further. But if you set Phoenix Splash too high or put any diving attack against a dazed opponent here, then you will almost never see any moves and Super Diving Headbutt rarely even if Do Not Ascend set to 0%.

5. Movement Speed and Priorities Override -- faster speed allows you to get to correct positions faster until the current action overrides due to too much time spent or inability to get to the context spot. High performance trait 75+ would and low Flexibility 15- (don't lower it if you competing in MMA or wont your wrestler to adapt to opponent) would definitely help. Also, remember what I said in the previous paragraph about difficult or impossible moves contribution to overall chance of even attempting respective category. If you have diving crossbody and super hurrincarana for your diving attacks against a dazed opponent, then you will almost never see either of them. But if you replace diving crossbody with missile kick, then you have a lot higher chance of hitting both of these moves. In some categories percentage difference have a higher impact. For example, in initiate grapple category difference between 10 and 15 is low. You will hit 10% move like 20 times out of 100 and 15% like 40 out of 100. But if you set irish whip rebound 1st attack to 15% and 2nd one to 13%, then you will see 15% attack like 60 out of 100 and 13% maybe 5-6 time out of 100. Same thing goes for avalanche moves and much more. There are a lot of nuances too for every category based on logic override. For example, Dazed Against Corner grapples would activate 1 time out of 200 if you using like 10% front grapple and 90% back grapple in Opponent Dazed category (there will be strikes or normal front grapes instead), but if you change front to 65% and back to 35%, then you will see avalanche grapples. There are a lot of ways to manipulate CPU into performing specific actions.

6. Wrestling Style -- Technician, Junior, Luchador and Panther are the best at this due to inherent distance bonuses and certain move affinities (on higher difficulty levels, CPU hesitant to execute low affinity moves, so they are receiving -ToHitChance RNG bonus).

I would upload unedited video of first 3 league matches in the other topic soon (no jump cuts, audio stays consistent, I only sped up setting up League part) to demonstrate what you can do with CPU. I can translate manual to default PC controls and include a lot of gameplay info and neat tricks that wasn't included in the default version if someone needs it.

1st match have sort of "who is better suplex machine" psychology, lot of suplex reversals and great finish to it. My CAW vs Okada.2nd match is high paced high flying action with one of the best ending sequences. A.J. Styles vs Neville3rd match is submission contest with a lot of top rope moves and over the top to the outside action (unfortunately 2 spots have failed) and great ending. Sanada vs Suzuki.

1) Small damage 0:00 - 3:00 section is pretty boring if you have initiate grapple set to 40+. Because you will potentially see a lot of repeated moves, test of strength, collar-and-elbow tie up spam and almost no mat wrestling, high flying stuff, corner moves, hammer throws/irish whips, ringside action. So I add rest holds, submissions or ground strike rushes.

Explanation: Bodyslam -> Standing at Head (MED) -- if you have submission in this slot, then it will be risky if you want to use Bodyslam in the latter part of the match and Bodyslam is potential setup for Top Rope Moves and Springboard to the Outside Moves. So put another guaranteed any damage takedown move in your small category like Dragon Screw -> Standing at Feet (MED) which looks cooler and make more sense if you have leg targeting submission in MED slot and more of those in latter parts of the match, or if that is one of your winning conditions.

Also, you probably won't use a Dragon Screw in Large Damage category, because it's too small of a move, you can get a similar animation from countering certain kick grapple moves, that move leaves you wrestler on his back, which can be dangerous for the main reason -- no selling, since the opponent will get up faster than you if you have a lower current recovery, breath or low move affinity and that can allow him to go for a pin or submission, breaking cool sequence and potentially causing anti-climatic finish. So, if you are planning to use it in Large, then you want some big submission here, which will look stupid at the start. Another option will be Snapmare into some kind of rest hold.

Example: Since you have limited priority slots, be more conservative with priority stacking. LRG priority usually starts at 7:20-8:30 time frame, so you can set the next sequence for SML category:

Standing at Legs (MED) set to Guard PositionStanding at Head (MED) set to Step Over Facelock (rest hold)Run (SML) set to Striking Lariat (leaves you standing near opponent head)

What does it do? Running attacks usually don't strings into combos, so opponent will sell it better and give you more time to set up a sequence. Striking Lariat has cool animation without recovery frames and leaves you standing near opponent's head, which allow you to get in position faster. Then game running background checks. If your 1d100 (100 sided dice) rolls 60 or less, then you proceed to execute Guard Position. If the dice result is 61 or more, then you proceed to the next roll. Next roll decides if you go into the rest hold or not -- if 65 or less than yes, otherwise you will proceed to Opponent Down - Face Up category (99.9% of the time Opponent Down near corner can't be executed from running attack set up).

What do we have here? Very functional pair with optimal space usage.

0:00 - 3:00 For your typical orthodox wrestler irish whip/hammer throw set to 20% in the small damage category. There is extremely low chance of either of two moves will be performed, because Run (SML) has one of the fastest recovery times in the game. So CPU controlled wrestler most likely won't be able to start a ground attack in first 2 minutes.

2:30 - 7:30 Expect rest holds to appear here and some of a mat wrestling too. Usually opponent no sells your lariats, so putting ground clinic on him will prevent this trend.

7:30 and above - no rest holds, only one 30% check for transition into Guard Position. If you have Guard Position set to some % value in Opponent Face Up Near Legs category, then game going to check second time against that value. I usually go with 0% Small, 3% Large, 0% Critical extra checks.

you can manipulate some variables in the game on the PS2 version. When you are starting the match, Random Number Generator creates particular random seed that controls match flow. You can memorize move sequences and restart your console without finishing the match. Then you go to CPU priority, find those particular moves and change them to what you want to see. You have a very high chance of witnessing exactly what you want to see. PC version seems to generate new seed every time, so it's more random.

Example: 3 moves spread between one category. 1st move have 50% chance to hit, 2nd 25% and 3rd 25% too, 100% total. Move range: 1st (elbow strike) = 0-49, 2nd (bodyslam) = 50-74, 3rd (dragon screw) = 75-99 RNG rolls the 1d100 dice and generates number 56. It's 2nd move category, so your wrestler performs bodyslam. That RNG result was part of random seed that was generated when you started the match. Restart your console and switch up bodyslam to elbow strike. New match starts with the same random seed, but when you roll 56 you get an elbow strike now instead of bodyslam.

How many checks do you need to pass this sequence? Stand Back (Stall category) - Initiate Grapple -> Initiate Grapple - Grapple (RUN) -> Irish Whip - Showmanship -- if you in the center of the ring high Showmanship will probably throw opponent into the corner, or if you near apron, then you going to launch opp. straight into the turnbuckles or throw him out of the ring -> Irish Whip - Running (SML) -> Priority Attack Checks + in any of those stages you can lose grapple, get countered or opponent can get up too fast, so no spam allowed.

Functionality: For face up you have free BIG legs and head slots, transition into Guard Position allows for crazy amount of variation, better looking chain wrestling, better strike rushes, submissions and great counters (not just pushing off puncher or breaking locks). 4 Free face down slots, more wiggle room and options for Ground CPU Logic categories and 8 free Priority slots.

2) String Contest Combo Clinchers into pins. That's crazy how your opponents no sell this cool exchanges, especially ones with the comeback. Put like Super Kick or Rolling Elbow, which can potentially finish the match or get you cool near falls.

Example: CPU Logic 1: you probably have some way to set up Opponent Face Down position -> Priority slot 1: high chance to Perform Okada Taunt when LRG damage, alternatively you can use Performance category to make appearance of Okada going for Rainmaker and failing to do it (watch full match Okada vs Zack Sabre Jr that I posted in "Mark Out" thread; 3rd match of part 3, 13:43 timecode) -> CPU Logic 2: you probably have very high pick up rate for Critical state -> CPU Logic 3: you probably have very high Back Grapple for Critical state to set up Rainmaker -> CPU Logic 4: you probably have very high Rainmaker chance for Critical state -> Priority Slot 2: high chance to go for a pin after Rainmaker.

Example 2:If you don't know how to spend free slots, then make sure that you have 2 big moves ending up with you standing to set up Top Rope Diving Attack against Standing Opponent with low pin or submission chances. One menacing looking move, probably your signature that ends up with both of you on the ground and a pretty high chance like 40% to go for a pin, otherwise can be used for outside dives setups and top rope diving attacks. Use Stand Up opponent after moves that you want to string into another big moves or don't want to end up winning with them.

craziej2k wrote:Reckless, would it be possible for you to post a screenshot of your front grapple logic for one of your edits? The numbers shown in the images you posted are soooooooooo different from mine I'd love to see how you spread your %'s out

Sure thing!

This is Mark Spirals' current front grapple set up...

I pretty much messed up my junior edit, due to changing moves I wasn’t happy with, and this screenshot has been invaluable. Reckless, would you have the rest of the screens for your edit’s logic set-up? It’d make for a terrific template.

I’d also love to hear if anyone else has any set template ideas for logic across the different positions. I began with djkm’s 80s high flyer template - which served me well until I started messing with moves. After getting great help from Dawnbreaker and The Denizen, I figured I’d get rid of some auto-pin moves but then got the dreaded Big F’n Move Syndrome to compensate for my edit’s lack of a competitive streak (I’ve never seen him use his finisher and he’s pretty grounded for a risk-taking edit). Being a small junior, I remembered how an edit’s size could nerf the damage it does, so... here I am

I've been working on my latest port, Fang Xia. She's a Nagata-like wrestler with an edge in sheer kicking power. She has Strike Crit, but the thing I could never remember was how the different Crit skills work.

I'm under the assumption that crit skills don't increase the likelihood of a crit happening, but it allows certain moves to critical. Is this correct?

I'm curious because I thought about "What if I could make an edit crit 100% with their Finisher?" However, I find this implausible due to the nature of the game.

The_PR_Dragon wrote:Dragons, Emus, and Wolves are all hearing impaired. Sounds about right.

I made an edit called "WEAPON FETCHER". It has 0% scaling for all body parts. It's job is to be put in a heel stable and accompany hardcore wrestlers to the ring. Occasionally it will grab a weapon and toss it in the ring.When the camera cuts to them or they try and get the ref's attention it's problematic, but otherwise they help weapon specialists get their hands on weapons easier.

DM_PSX wrote:I made an edit called "WEAPON FETCHER". It has 0% scaling for all body parts. It's job is to be put in a heel stable and accompany hardcore wrestlers to the ring. Occasionally it will grab a weapon and toss it in the ring.When the camera cuts to them or they try and get the ref's attention it's problematic, but otherwise they help weapon specialists get their hands on weapons easier.

I hate having to ask this as I'm sure it's out there somewhere but is there a counter movelist for each Return Style available?

I think this would really help with edits & I've seen some cool stuff over the years like Jericho reversing a Hurricanrana into a Walls of Jericho. From what I tell he has the Junior Return Style but there are 3 possible counters for the move (from JB's Move Data List), a Powerbomb, a Boston Crab &a Prawn Hold

I could go through & manually work them all out, it would be pretty fun but pretty time consuming

ETA: Upon testing, the Junior Return Skill no longer counters a Hurricanrana with a Boston Crab, it's a Powerbomb instead. It must've been from a FPA I saw that sweet Jericho counter

FlashBurton wrote:I hate having to ask this as I'm sure it's out there somewhere but is there a counter movelist for each Return Style available?

I think this would really help with edits & I've seen some cool stuff over the years like Jericho reversing a Hurricanrana into a Walls of Jericho. From what I tell he has the Junior Return Style but there are 3 possible counters for the move (from JB's Move Data List), a Powerbomb, a Boston Crab &a Prawn Hold

I could go through & manually work them all out, it would be pretty fun but pretty time consuming

ETA: Upon testing, the Junior Return Skill no longer counters a Hurricanrana with a Boston Crab, it's a Powerbomb instead. It must've been from a FPA I saw that sweet Jericho counter

That reversal was definitely in FPR because I remember making a post about it on FPC. I think it has to be with certain hurricanranas and I believe the Orthodox return style.

If you have a general idea for all the moves to be filled, go for it. Just don't be afraid to use a more limited moveset if you think it fits the character better.

With all due respect, I beg to differ.

I'd rather fill those slots with different moves and set them to a lower percentage. Fire Pro already has precious few move slots, and not enough to fill out a 10+ minute match.

Even people who are accused of having small move sets or valets can easily fill the moveset slots available.

Everyone has a variety of strikes at their disposal.Everyone can do a headlock / headlock punches.Everyone can do a wide variety of strikes.Everyone can do a back switch.Everyone can run counter into a backswitch or a strike.

Those extra moves can be used as more rare set ups into their big moves.

When I see your personal edit on Dawn's stream spamming the same 3 moves over and over and over again I think it's really boring and a textbook case of a poorly thought out edit. Especially the stab attacks. Build up to them.

Uh....well to be fair, first, there's not much build up you can do with a guy who's gimmick is centered around wild, chaotic brawling, weaponry, and the like (the buildups for his finisher, and signature judo throws non withstanding).

Second, there's a fair amount of guys who use more limited movesets, like say the more armless fighters, your more old school deathmatch types that can't really wrestle, knockoffs of mid-80s Hogan (hahaha)

Now depending on what you're going for, uh, let's say headscissors whip and dropkick, would it make sense to shoehorn in another dropkick variation or one of those leg lariats if it doesn't fit the character in the slightest? Or give a more pure brawler submission holds on the ground in lieu of a bunch of basic stomps? I'm not saying use it every time, (or even a significant amount of the time) I'm saying don't be afraid to use it if it suits the character better. Though I am likely guilty of shoehorning a move in just for the sake of shoehorning it in myself.....

Edit: I just checked, and a perfect example of this is the WWE Diva. (Current build as of December 11, 2017) Who has a strike build of SML Face Slap, MED Face Slap, BIG Dropkick, BIG(directional) Toe Kick, and SML/MED Brazilian Kick. A more limited build sure, but authentic to how a Diva worked, given that most of their offense was catfighting and some mild displays of agility; and punches, karate strikes, power strikes, chops, and the like weren't really standard in the Diva's arsenal.

Now technically I could probably sub the MED move for a leg trip or takedown if I wanted to, (or even a Face Crusher/Neckbreaker which I may do) but I don't think the takedown or leg trip were really part of a Diva's arsenal. Nor were forearm rabbit shots, rabbit chops, or actual wrestling moves and holds in general.

It's not enough to look like an edit to be an edit. You have to act like them too.

If you have a general idea for all the moves to be filled, go for it. Just don't be afraid to use a more limited moveset if you think it fits the character better.

With all due respect, I beg to differ.

I'd rather fill those slots with different moves and set them to a lower percentage. Fire Pro already has precious few move slots, and not enough to fill out a 10+ minute match.

Even people who are accused of having small move sets or valets can easily fill the moveset slots available.

Everyone has a variety of strikes at their disposal.Everyone can do a headlock / headlock punches.Everyone can do a wide variety of strikes.Everyone can do a back switch.Everyone can run counter into a backswitch or a strike.

Those extra moves can be used as more rare set ups into their big moves.

When I see your personal edit on Dawn's stream spamming the same 3 moves over and over and over again I think it's really boring and a textbook case of a poorly thought out edit. Especially the stab attacks. Build up to them.

I agree with DM_PSX, filling slots with duplicate moves should be avoided as this only affects human players when that edit is selected for matches. Setting logic to use certain moves at 0 percent will effectively limit an edit's move set for simulation purposes, while still allowing basic moves to fill out the remaining slots.

Unless you're taking advantage of the properties for different move categories (small, medium, big), this is unnecessary.