// Sorry if someone already posted it// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.

Trail of Dead:chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings. I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown. You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home. Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent. You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby. But on those bad days you pack it up and go home. Very very simple.

Grocery stores are the last place on earth I would expect peace and quiet. Who cares? Your crying baby is drowning out the Billy Joel song on the Muzak machine, so thanks for that. You know what's more annoying in a grocery store? The husband/boyfriend who just stands with the cart in front of the tomatoes, staring at his blackberry, while the wife/girlfriend runs around doing the actual shopping. fark that guy. Useless.

I can understand being upset if someone doesn't take their screaming kid out of a movie or nice restaurant, because patrons paid to be there. They have a right to expect a certain atmosphere. Nobody has a right to expect serenity in a grocery store. If they do, their sense of entitlement is as overdeveloped as the snowflakes they most likely complain about constantly.

RumsfeldsReplacement:I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.

That is ignorant; VACCINATE your FARKING KIDS, DOLT! It does not however make him any less correct on the article in question.

RumsfeldsReplacement:I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.

Yeah, and I've cringed at his dribblings in the past, but that doesn't make him wrong on this one. He might be an ignorant jerk but even ignorant jerks can be right on some things.

Falstaff:As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want. I may laugh, I may tell you off. Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair. I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that. Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head. Creepy as hell.

Seriously, WTF.

I actually did one time grab the wrist of an elderly woman who reached for him and told her where to put that hand. Thinking about it later, I realized that I did it forcibly enough that I could have hurt her but I also realized I didn't care.

I honestly never realized how protective I'd be as a parent and I've come to find out I'm middle-of-the-road in that respect.

robohobo:Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.

Replace parents with liberals. How you like that now?

As a parent now, this article was right on the money. I don't care how awesome someone thinks they are, or their kids are, this crap happens.

MycroftHolmes:Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

HEY EVERYONE, Freudian Slipknot just found an article in a medical journal about parents being dumbasses. This means that all parents are stupid, FS is an expert on child rearing, and all of your arguments are invalid.

// Oh bless you kind sir! Bless your little heart!

I've been assured that these folks know more about child rearing than anyone who has not themselves had a child and are therefore beyond reproach.

/didn't start this argument//just pointing out the HUGE flaw in the logic///bad parents are easy to recognize, even to the childless

Mugato:jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want. I may laugh, I may tell you off. Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair. I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that. Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head. Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.

Not that often, but it does happen sometimes. It's a mother thing for the most part I think, it looks "cute" and is "adorable". When I dressed them I didn't even bother to put them in matching clothes, which is pretty much the worst thing you could ever do.

Once they got old enough to have input into what they wore, they would want to dress alike themselves, but again, not that often.

RumsfeldsReplacement:I do feel like I should at least point out that the author of this blog is somebody who declined to immunize his children against Hepatitis B because only people who have promiscuous sex get Hepatitis B.

So we're not talking about a rocket surgeon here.

Even blind chickens find corn now and again.

Ye, I've also read some of his earlier blog posts. It's a hard thing to do to have to agree with him on something and praise his writing; but here I am. Doing hard things.

Mr. Coffee Nerves:I think the good parents hate the "Don't you dare give me a dirty look because I'm letting my five-year-old and my three-year-old chug Mountain Dew and play 'Scream Tag' in the aisles at this 10PM showing of 'I Spit On Your Grave'"-type parents more than the non-parents hate them.

Yes, I get pissed off at parents who are shiatty, not their kids. Yesterday I encountered a woman telling her kid, who couldn't have been more than three, to "shut up" in a really mean way. And the kid wasn't even being bad! He was whining a bit because he wanted a little attention from his mom. You can discipline your kids, be firm, be stern if that's the right approach, but to just be rude and nasty to a very young child like that earns you the shiatty parent award. Other ways to earn the award include refusing to discipline and being inconsiderate of other people who have to be exposed to your child's behavior.

My mother works at a public library and there are a lot of parents who treat the place like a daycare, letting their kids run wild and unsupervised, making a mess and destroying books, while the parent plops their lazy ass at a computer and does Facebook for a couple of hours. Yes, I try my very best to teach my kids not to be brats and be responsible for their actions, and I get very mad at these parents. Not the kids, the awful parents.

That being said, I am not going to get all bent out of shape when a kid acts up and a parent is having a hard time but doing the best they can. Sometimes it's easy to get overwhelmed. Not every kid is going to respond perfectly to your parenting technique and they can be a challenge. One of my kids is much more compliant and the other one is very strong willed. I have to discipline them differently. But whatever type of kid you have, I think instilling a sense of respect and consideration for others goes a long way toward curtailing bad behavior.

As for people who apparently hate all children no matter what, I feel sorry for them, I guess. They seem very sour, like those grumpy old people who chase you off their lawn.

Albinoman:MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it. So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior. In what way is this not 'parenting'?

HEY EVERYONE, Freudian Slipknot just found an article in a medical journal about parents being dumbasses. This means that all parents are stupid, FS is an expert on child rearing, and all of your arguments are invalid.

// Oh bless you kind sir! Bless your little heart!

I've been assured that these folks know more about child rearing than anyone who has not themselves had a child and are therefore beyond reproach.

/didn't start this argument//just pointing out the HUGE flaw in the logic///bad parents are easy to recognize, even to the childless

I am not making the case that there are not "bad parents" in this world ... However I am AMAZED you can tell a bad parent just by looking at them. You should take that shiat on the road and make millions. Can you do the same with jury duty as well? "Your honor, I ask you, if the defendant isn't guilty why is he so black?"

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge". Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Personally, I wouldn't, necessarily. I know a woman who runs a "bird rehab". Her birds are obviously atrociously cared-for. I've never had a kestrel, but I know how to tell one is not well taken care of.

So, keeping the metaphor going, some zookeepers don't know what they're doing. Some zookeepers get eaten by lions, and then even people who have never had a pet can rightly say "Wow, that guy was a bad zookeeper."

I had visions of bad parents being eaten by their toddlers. Brilliant!

MycroftHolmes:Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it. So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior. In what way is this not 'parenting'?

Cause it's already part of your personality or it isn't, it's not learned. That's why some people are bad parents. They aren't bad parents, they're bad people.

forever_blowing_bubbles:As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.

I've never seen that. Funny! Thanks.

/this is not snark. (I added this because it reads like snark, but it's not)

Contempt, no. They are wonderful people who have always been there for me. Much like the parents of my friends for them, my co-workers, myself for mine, etc. However, many people seem to think that parenting grants magic knowledge or that having (or not having) children affects the truth value of a person's statements, and that I find amusing.

I think you are confusing experience with "magical knowledge". Would you agree that for instance a zoo keeper making statements regarding the care and feeding of zoo animals opinion is more valid on that subject than that of someone who has never had even a pet?

Personally, I wouldn't, necessarily. I know a woman who runs a "bird rehab". Her birds are obviously atrociously cared-for. I've never had a kestrel, but I know how to tell one is not well taken care of.

So, keeping the metaphor going, some zookeepers don't know what they're doing. Some zookeepers get eaten by lions, and then even people who have never had a pet can rightly say "Wow, that guy was a bad zookeeper."

I had visions of bad parents being eaten by their toddlers. Brilliant!

Heh. Metaphor may have gotten a little wonky; but that would solve a lot of problems, wouldn't it?

Albinoman:MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it. So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior. In what way is this not 'parenting'?

Cause it's already part of your personality or it isn't, it's not learned. That's why some people are bad parents. They aren't bad parents, they're bad people.

So, now you are saying that people are inherently good or bad parents, after you stated that learning how to control your own behavior and have patience was critical to getting the children to respond positively. So very confusing. Let me see if I got this, you are either a good parent or bad parent based on programming, and you can change that programming by learning your to control your behavior, but you can't because it is part of your behavior and can't be learned. Have I got that right?

Albinoman:MycroftHolmes: Albinoman: MycroftHolmes: Oh, it was a declarative statement. I set forth two objective conditions, and allowed you to pick which one applied.I just chose not to go down the rabbit hole of trying to argue semantics with you when there were more amusing lines of argument.

So, let me see if I can get this straight-your original statement was that you don't need to be a parent to see bad parenting, when challenged you acknowledged that you essentially were a parent, then basically back up your argument by saying that when you were a parent, you didn't really now how to do it, but were able to do it based on programming.

So, your current contention is that parenting is innate and instinctive, and that you do not ever learn anything about parenting based on experience. So, let me ask you, in your time as a parent, did you learn anything about how to deal with the kids, did you alter the way you interacted with them? Did you learn what worked and what didn't based on trial and error, or did you, from day one, automatically know how to handle them?

Come on, it's not like you replied to me to imply that I was wise. I just responded to what you were trying to actually say. Yes, to the second paragraph. I did say "mostly programmed" for a reason. But what you learn isn't about raising the child but more of how to handle yourself. There's a lot of patience and controlling yourself involved. How children behave is mostly a result of how they treat them. If a parent is indignant and uncaring, would you expect something else from the kid.

Got it. So, in your experience as a parent, learning how to manage your emotions to communicate and emote effectively is a learned behavior. In what way is this not 'parenting'?

Cause it's already part of your personality or it isn't, it's not learned. That's why some people are bad parents. They aren't bad parents, they're bad people.

Wow, this is a really stupid argument on your part. However, I would love for you to tell Christian Conservatives that being a parent is like being gay, you're just born that way. That would be one of the most epically, unintentionally funny threads ever with your idiocy and their asshattery!

Parenting is learned. PERIOD. I am 100x more patient than I was when my first child is born. I learned to love someone (actually someones as I have 3 children) MORE than myself. That's not something you are born with; humans are born self-centered, they have to learn empathy and compassion.

Cold_Sassy:My Mom had 4 children and, back in the day, you were still permitted to spank your child and that took care of most behavioral issues. I honestly can't remember me or any of my 3 brothers ever throwing a fit. I'm sure we must have, but you could count on old Mom lowering the boom and that stemmed most bad behavior.

Too bad some stupid jerkoffs had to make that a crime.

Same here. Except I was one of seven. Yes, seven. And my mom does wonder why parents can't control their kids. If we went out to a restaurant as a family, and one of us acted up...guess who had to stay home the next time with a babysitter. We had these things called "consequences" when we misbehaved.

Satan's Bunny Slippers:forever_blowing_bubbles: As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.

I've never seen that. Funny! Thanks.

/this is not snark. (I added this because it reads like snark, but it's not)

someonelse:Trail of Dead: chubby muppet: As a new parent, I am very aware of my surroundings. I would never stay in a store if my baby was having a meltdown. You take her outside and if there's no hope of calming down, you go home. Sure it's inconvenient, but rolling the dice is part of being a parent. You take your chances, and many times it's good with a lot of people smiling and saying hi to you and your baby. But on those bad days you pack it up and go home. Very very simple.

Grocery stores are the last place on earth I would expect peace and quiet. Who cares? Your crying baby is drowning out the Billy Joel song on the Muzak machine, so thanks for that. You know what's more annoying in a grocery store? The husband/boyfriend who just stands with the cart in front of the tomatoes, staring at his blackberry, while the wife/girlfriend runs around doing the actual shopping. fark that guy. Useless.

I can understand being upset if someone doesn't take their screaming kid out of a movie or nice restaurant, because patrons paid to be there. They have a right to expect a certain atmosphere. Nobody has a right to expect serenity in a grocery store. If they do, their sense of entitlement is as overdeveloped as the snowflakes they most likely complain about constantly.

I agree with all the above. Again as I've said, I don't have kids of my own, BUT the last damn place I expect peace is the grocery store. What annoys me most? It's a tossup between cows who park their cart in the middle of the aisle and wander up and down, or the other idiot at the deli who wants a taste of everything before deciding on their 1/4 lb of plain turkey. Seriously? You've never tasted ham before? This isn't a lunch counter, GTFO.

Small kids are the LEAST of any issue I may have with the grocery store. Teens however....well we can all agree that teens are a species unto themselves, and convention does not apply. :)

However, I do have an issue with those godawfully huge "car karts". Can we all please agree those things are terrible?

jayhawk88:Mugato: jayhawk88: Falstaff: As a new father of twin girls, feel free to express any opinion you want. I may laugh, I may tell you off. Either way, we'll be good.

Do NOT, however, just walk up and start rubbing their cheek or stroking their hair. I just about knocked a woman out last night for doing that. Didn't say two words to me, just walks up and starts rubbing my youngest's head. Creepy as hell.

The twins in public thing is one of the weirdest phenomenon ever. I can't say we ever had a "strangers touching" problem, but just everywhere, everyone has to know "do they run in your family" or "are they identical". It does lessen the older they get, though.

Maybe you guys can answer this. Do you dress your twins in identical outfits, if so, why? Is there a twin discount like buy one get one half off or something? And wouldn't that cause identity issues? Anyway, it's creepy, reminds me of The Shining.

Not that often, but it does happen sometimes. It's a mother thing for the most part I think, it looks "cute" and is "adorable". When I dressed them I didn't even bother to put them in matching clothes, which is pretty much the worst thing you could ever do.

Once they got old enough to have input into what they wore, they would want to dress alike themselves, but again, not that often.

Thanks for your reply. I have a friend who does this to their twins and without judging, I think it's farked up. I was just wondering what the thought process was behind people who do it.

My two cents on parenting - be consistent. Never let them manipulate you, blackmail you, embarrass you or do anything else that makes you change the rules. I don't have a tenth of the problems with my daughter that her mother has and I honestly think it is because she knows the expectations are consistent and punishment will be swift and sure.

This is what I do. The problem is that I'm still married to the mother. She's not consistent. Also, the two girls next door throw fits and get their way, so my daughter sees that. My son has not had a meltdown in public that I recall.

Lady J:if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Last night I was flying with my three year old daughter. She didn't cry once.

She did stand up in her seat. She'd been sitting in a car and on a previous flight most of the day, so I didn't blam her for wanting to stretch her legs.

Standing, her head came up to about the same height as my head. But behind us was an older couple. The woman kept sucking her teeth in annoyance and muttering, 'sit down,' in that cowardly level of voice between actually saying it and keeping it to yourself.

marsoft:Satan's Bunny Slippers: forever_blowing_bubbles: As a parent of 3 who has dealt with a few tantrums in my day, this commercial still cracks me up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM8ym0FqM_k

// Sorry if someone already posted it// Youngest is now 8 and I do not miss the days of diapers, loss of sleep and the occassional tantrum// For you non-parents or new parents you think that people say "It goes by so fast" are full of crap. They aren't and it DOES.

I've never seen that. Funny! Thanks.

/this is not snark. (I added this because it reads like snark, but it's not)

I actually did something very similar when I had taken my oldest niece shopping when she was about 5. (She's now 36)...she started up, and I just mimicked everything she did, but more animated and louder. I'm sure the folks in Farm & Fleet got quite a show of my then young 20 something self jumping up and down, flapping my arms and whining about how I wanted a sparkle pony for my birthday and didn't get one.

Confusion gave way to giggles, then we were done. Took maybe 3 minutes.

mightybaldking:edmo: But the minute that kid pops out of your insides, you're a freaking expert.

No, you've got that entirely wrong. You know everything about being the perfect parent UNTIL the kid pops out. Then you realize you're just winging it.

And smug assholes who haven't had a kid, and still know everything, are happy to correct you every step of the way.

That. My kid is 3. My wife and I waiting, by choice, for quite a while before having kids. I'm 42 and and she's 40 currently. I think we were way more mature and prepared than most parents but there were still many surprises (and there still are).

My boy is very good. He has his moments but we're very vigilant to make sure he doesn't disturb. If he is cranky or upset, we don't hang around and expose him to others. When he was between 1 and 2, I remember going to see my mother in-law on her birthday and everyone, on the spur of the moment, wanted to go out to eat. My son didn't have a nap and became an agitated noise maker at the restaurant. I immediately took him to the restaurant entrance where I spent the next hour and a half (he was *not* going to sit in relative calm).

Still, you get idiots. Last late spring I was in REI, just he and I...a week away from his 3rd birthday. I went to check out and there was a line. I am always hyper vigilant about waiting to be called forward ( row of checkers and such). My son is asking me a million questions, quietly and calmly mind you, but most of my attention is on being called forward. When I get up to the front, there is one checker free but he was on the phone. So, glance down for literally 3 seconds (*if* that) to placate my son and some 20-ish semi-fitness chick about five people back says with a smug looking smile on her face, "excuse me...I think *he's* ready for you", and points to the checker on the phone who didn't look like he made any indication that he was ready for a customer. Thinking that my timing may have been bad and I missed him motioning me over, I walk down to him....where I stood for almost five minutes while he continued his phone conversation with a customer.

Some people are indeed just dicks. I'm sure this idiot girl just sized me up as one of "those" parents and waited for the earliest opportunity. If I had my head on straight, I would have made a show and let her have my place in line and just moved to the back of the line...or at least said something to the smug asshole.

Every jackass is an expert on parenting before they have any kids of their own. When they do, they discover that parenting is not as simple or as black-and-white as they thought. Moreover, they discover that their priority is always the safety, discipline, and well-being of their child, over the comfort, convenience, and opinions of random passersby.

Except discipline creates comfort and conveniences for a passerby. Lack of discipline fosters opinions in a passerby.

The problem is that non-parents too often equate "discipline" with "quiet and meekly behaved at all times." It's not so.

Sometimes a parent disciplining a child results in explosive outbursts and tantrums. Sometimes it's because the child wants something (candy, a toy, or to go somewhere else) and the parent is holding firm in saying no. It's easy to placate a child and prevent tantrums by giving them what they want all the time, but that is not discipline.

What you perceive as "lack of discipline" may in fact be the parent disciplining their child, asserting their authority and teaching the child that they do not always get everything they want, and that a tantrum is not an effective way of influencing their parents' actions. Despite what you think, parents are not oblivious to their child throwing a tantrum - they are painfully aware of it and likely embarrassed - but they are dealing with it in the best way they know how and trying to discourage (not reward) that kind of behavior.

^THIS. When I tell my children "no" to something, they cry and get mad. However, they learn from it, and the temper tantrums decrease as they mature and learn their boundaries. If I give into them to keep them from crying at every inopportune time, then they learn to be WORSE in public because they then realize they can always get away with it as long as they threaten mom with being embarassed. Since I care about my kids learning right from wrong, I will suffer some embarassment.

earthwirm:TalenLee: earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

No, it's called humanity. Instead of having a rude demeanor and making everyone days bad , you can choose to lighten the mood or help. Being a jack wagon doesn't and won't help.

TalenLee:earthwirm: Lady J: if i have to listen to your screeching brat on the bus, i get to have an opinion

Actually, no you don't. Deal with it.

That's just a flat out lie. I get to have an opinion on anything. Now, the idea that a person doesn't get to express their opinion because you don't think it's justified or morally acceptable or whatever is fine, but I'm fairly sure that telling them their opinion is flat-out not allowed to exist is, at the very least, dickish.

lostcat:Standing, her head came up to about the same height as my head. But behind us was an older couple. The woman kept sucking her teeth in annoyance and muttering, 'sit down,' in that cowardly level of voice between actually saying it and keeping it to yourself.

All I can say about that woman is, 'what an asshole.'

Perhaps she was an asshole, and perhaps she was concerned for the safety of your unrestrained child in the case of turbulence.

I do find it amusing that you call her using her voice cowardly, but you didn't turn around to say anything yourself.

You feel justified because, well, it's your story. That's how it happens. That doesn't necessarily mean that there's not another side and that it's not just as justified.

Actually, it doesn't really bother me unless they do nothing about it or look at you and laugh like, "Isn't my baby adorable? LOVE HIM!". No, he isn't and I don't.

And as someone posted above, it is vaguely annoying when I have to cover for everyone in the office with some kid related thing they have to get to. Obviously if the kid has a doctor's appointment, go, of course. I'm an asshole but I'm not a farking asshole. But every Friday is a half day with these people for their kids going to practice various things. I love my job so I don't care if I have to cover for them but it's the principle. If I asked for an hour off to catch a flight to Vegas I'd be lynched.

I see a lot of people saying that a screaming, tantrum-throwing child is the sign of a bad parent. And also that ignoring the tantrum is not the answer. Both of these opinions are incorrect. Even the best parent in the world will have to deal with a tantrum in public on occassion. And if you respond to the outburst, you give credence, and therefor power, to the behavior. The best response (in my experience) it to acknowledge the fact that the child is behaving rudely and tell them to stop. Ignore the kid after that, and they will stop without you giving them anymore power.

I actually did something very similar when I had taken my oldest niece shopping when she was about 5. (She's now 36)...she started up, and I just mimicked everything she did, but more animated and louder. I'm sure the folks in Farm & Fleet got quite a show of my then young 20 something self jumping up and down, flapping my arms and whining about how I wanted a sparkle pony for my birthday and didn't get one.

Confusion gave way to giggles, then we were done. Took maybe 3 minutes.

Is F & F just in the Midwest? I love farm and Fleet - dunno why exactly - thinks it's just that they have a little of everything I think I need, except guns. Think I've only seen it here in Illinois and also southern Wisconsin.

It seems to me that stores should offer a "cart check" service. You can go to the customer service desk, pay them a couple of bucks, and they'll hold your cart for 24 hours (and return refrigerated foods to the appropriate places). You can then come back, they'll retrieve whatever foods had to be returned, and you can pick back up where you left off.

Although I see the major use of this as getting screaming kids out of the store, it could also be useful for handling minor medical emergencies, unforeseen trips to the ATM, and other possible mishaps that come up from time to time.

robohobo:Also, we're all forcefully made to contribute monetarily to children that aren't ours. So fark off, parents. YOU farking made the choice to make more people. In most cases, people you cannot afford.

We were all forced to monetarily contribute to YOU when YOU WERE A CHILD, and you weren't ours, so you fark off. How convenient that you want to change the rules on how society tolerates/supports children now that you've gotten yours. This is just more of the "I've got mine, fark you" society. Non parents think they are sitting high above it all with their hands clean, like they aren't ever creating inconveniences for anyone else so they should get the same in return - not so! You were all children once before too, and in addition to that, plenty of non-parents have lots of annoying qualities that the rest of society (the vast majority of which are parents, were parents, or will be parents) has to put up with.