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Topic: Sid Lowe on Rafa Benitez (Read 12167 times)

In other words he could have written the usual shite we have to read about Benitez.

Yeah, that was one of the reasons I posted it. I thought it was refreshing to see a reasonably positive article about Rafa, especially from a guy who appears on Foorball Weekly podcast which, even now, persists in poking fun at the man for no reason (James Richardson, who I used to really like, said during the time that Rafa was linked to Juve, "why on earth would be a big club like Juventus be interested in someone like Rafa Benitez?" and introduced the first podcast of the season with "what will Alex Ferguson do without Fat Rafa to kick around?").

WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o

The man gave us the best midfield in the world, three of the four are captaining their sides tonight. Rafa is boss!

Well said.

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Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Most of what he says is tounge in cheek so I wouldn't take it too seriously... last season he opened a football weekly with the imortal line: "What's the difference between Nicklas Bendtner v Burnley and Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct? Well they were both shocking knickerless performances, but in the Burnley game we got to see a full 73 minutes of the hairy twat."

In my opinion this article is absolutely bang on. I always thought the same, that his relation to the team was in a dead end street. Rafa can do everything, just not creating a relation to the players like Mourinho can f.e.

BUT, in my opinion that is NOT necessary at all. With the amount of money players earning players should be able to handle a manager behaving like that, van Gaal is not really much different, nor is Magath, nor was Happel or Michels.

Players have become spoiled bastards. If you get along with your boss, alright. If not and it´s still a great well paid job than fuck it. Talk to your wife and friends and have a good time off the pitch and take it as it is.

So whats exactly the problem some players have with a coach like that? Or the other way around, some crucial players had problems with Rafa, the important ones..

« Last Edit: September 7, 2010, 11:48:18 PM by steveeastend »

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One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

In my opinion this article is absolutely bang on. I always thought the same, that his relation to the team was in a dead end street. Rafa can do everything, just not creating a relation to the players like Mourinho can f.e.

I'm still not too sure about that. Surely, Rafa is not Mourinho, but I still think he had good relationships at least with some players. His reaction to Masch being sent off at OT and going absolutely nuts suggests that they had some kind of understanding. Same for Bellamy's reaction after the 2-1-win vs. Barcelona. I think I even remember Rafa giving Pacheco () some encouragement when he subbed him on late in a game (could have been Pacheco's senior debut). I also remember Cissé, Nando and even Gerrard saying that Rafa improved them as players. So, they at least seem to be able to acknowledge that Rafa as a manager is/was good for them.

The only complaints about Rafa only really came from players who were shipped out (Pennant, Riera) and where you could say their behaviour played a part in them being shipped out. I also remember some players being pretty pissed off with the way they've been treated when we were trying to sell them (Cissé for example), but that was after we made the decision to get rid of them.

Rafa is no best-mate kind of manager, but I believe he's not that cold-hearted twat people are making him out to be, either. As Sid Lowe says in that article there has to be room for a little bit of gray and I think that's especially true for Rafa and his relationship with the players.

Roy hasn't been in charge of the club long enough to draw any conclusions, but one thing is pretty clear IMO. Those dire performances last season weren't down to the players hating Rafa or Rafa not being able to motivate them. They were down to something else as we've seen some dire performances this season as well. And there's not really something like a honey-moon period (with players looking happier and playing better) you'd expect with a new manager replacing a really hated one.

I'm still not too sure about that. Surely, Rafa is not Mourinho, but I still think he had good relationships at least with some players. His reaction to Masch being sent off at OT and going absolutely nuts suggests that they had some kind of understanding. Same for Bellamy's reaction after the 2-1-win vs. Barcelona. I think I even remember Rafa giving Pacheco () some encouragement when he subbed him on late in a game (could have been Pacheco's senior debut). I also remember Cissé, Nando and even Gerrard saying that Rafa improved them as players. So, they at least seem to be able to acknowledge that Rafa as a manager is/was good for them.

The only complaints about Rafa only really came from players who were shipped out (Pennant, Riera) and where you could say their behaviour played a part in them being shipped out. I also remember some players being pretty pissed off with the way they've been treated when we were trying to sell them (Cissé for example), but that was after we made the decision to get rid of them.

Rafa is no best-mate kind of manager, but I believe he's not that cold-hearted twat people are making him out to be, either. As Sid Lowe says in that article there has to be room for a little bit of gray and I think that's especially true for Rafa and his relationship with the players.

Roy hasn't been in charge of the club long enough to draw any conclusions, but one thing is pretty clear IMO. Those dire performances last season weren't down to the players hating Rafa or Rafa not being able to motivate them. They were down to something else as we've seen some dire performances this season as well. And there's not really something like a honey-moon period (with players looking happier and playing better) you'd expect with a new manager replacing a really hated one.

Of course not all of them disliked him, the majority got along with him just fine, but the crucial players couldn´t relate to him anymore or the other way around, Carra, Gerrard..

On the other hand you cannot find ONE player don´t speaking highly on Mourinho, probably he knows that this is one skill he´s very good at. Rafa´s for sure better when it comes to pure football knowledge though, they both do what they do best.

I still think that Mourinho wouldn´t fit to Liverpool and Rafa should still being here for a lot of reasons, just too tired to list them up again...

« Last Edit: September 8, 2010, 12:10:35 AM by steveeastend »

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One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Thanks for posting, Lowe is absolutely spot on. Especially the part about the Valencia players regretting his departure six months later. For the idiots at our club - both at boardroom and pitch level - the penny will drop much much faster.

In my opinion this article is absolutely bang on. I always thought the same, that his relation to the team was in a dead end street. Rafa can do everything, just not creating a relation to the players like Mourinho can f.e.

ironically rafa did have an extremely strong bond with the fans which probably confused/annoyed a lot of the players

My point is that some of things he says in that article are kind of coloured ala Tomkins, and some of the criticism he types first could be typed in a different way that would not be that easily refuted.

this is what i don't get- despite being disproven by a balanced article, fair with its criticism and praise, and more importantly, facts, some people will still stick to some sort of coloured/biased delusion. despite being facts. it's like our version of the teaparty/beck/palin troupe- utterly shorn of truth, but hey still.

WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o

Of course not all of them disliked him, the majority got along with him just fine, but the crucial players couldn´t relate to him anymore or the other way around, Carra, Gerrard..

On the other hand you cannot find ONE player don´t speaking highly on Mourinho, probably he knows that this is one skill he´s very good at. Rafa´s for sure better when it comes to pure football knowledge though, they both do what they do best.

I still think that Mourinho wouldn´t fit to Liverpool and Rafa should still being here for a lot of reasons, just too tired to list them up again...

Spot on 100%. As much as I love Rafa, he doesn't seem to be able to lift up the players against a poor run (mid 08-09, whole 09-10). It's down to communication and all - Arry, Mr Alex Ferguson have it

of course "Arry" has it, "My grandmother/mother could have scvored that chance that Darren Bent missed" I am sure Darren felt really good after reading that in all the newspapers.as for taggart, kicking cups around the dressing room, the famous "hair dryer" treatment, banning people from Old trafford who don't agree with him or question his actions.

yeah great coaches

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"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

"Friend, mourn not, though he premature departs, his wisdom marches on within our hearts"

Two bulls, one old and one young, standing at the top of a field watching a herd of cows. The young one says, "hey let's run down and fuck one of them", and the older one says, "patience, let's walk down and fuck them all".

The majority of the players surely got along well with Rafa, otherwise he wouldn´t have stayed so long here.. But from all what´s been said especially NOT said in interviews the crucial ones, Carra, Gerrard, couldn´t get along with him.

« Last Edit: September 8, 2010, 11:12:53 AM by steveeastend »

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One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

no idea if the rumours they wanted him out etc were true but to be honest the whole they would walk if rafa stayed articles were pure bollocks and they don't exactly look the cat that got the cream now

but carra could deffo get along with rafa for the 5 years previous to last season he has said many times he is one of those who loved the way rafa would tell him how to improve show him videos etc he might not have give a shit about his personal life but on a professional level he was the type of manager he liked.

Two bulls, one old and one young, standing at the top of a field watching a herd of cows. The young one says, "hey let's run down and fuck one of them", and the older one says, "patience, let's walk down and fuck them all".

hoonin

And yet, the very best know when to hug and when to hector. Managerial 101 in any walk of life.

I've got the highest respect for Rafa, but his achilles heel was and remains his man management.

Is the lack of such ability a barrier to being successful? It would seem not for Benitez (a multiple winner of the games biggest domestic tournaments) and also other managers down the years.

Additionally, being a good people person is no guarantee of anything other than being universally liked. It's an admirable trait for anyone wanting to manage Hull City or Fulham, but for me it comes well down the list and below all of the following:

*) Tactical acumen*) Ability to spot talent*) Flexibility during matches*) Attention to detail*) Self-motivated / winning mentality*) Some sort of professional playing experience

Having said that, it is reasonable to say that lack of people skills may well shorten the length of time a manager can hold sway over his team. Keep winning and players generally tolerate anything. When they're not winning we see all too regularly the tendency to reach for an excuse, such as the manager being "cold hearted".

It's an easy option as it deflects criticism away from their own failures as players.

is a cushy number for the Plod who work in this largely crime free suburb. Ate two, Brucey. Thread locker extraordinaire. Might answer to Nick CRoxy. Imaginary cock prognosticator. Has experience of being a bit of a twat. VERY well drilled at the back!

It's an easy option as it deflects criticism away from their own failures as players.

One of my biggest gripes about last season was the lack of responsibility the players seemed to take for it it. Everything was pinned on Rafa and controlling though he was I don't see how he could be balmed for some of the basic errors that were made, especially in the early prt of the season.

One of my biggest gripes about last season was the lack of responsibility the players seemed to take for it it. Everything was pinned on Rafa and controlling though he was I don't see how he could be balmed for some of the basic errors that were made, especially in the early prt of the season.

One of my biggest gripes about last season was the lack of responsibility the players seemed to take for it it. Everything was pinned on Rafa and controlling though he was I don't see how he could be balmed for some of the basic errors that were made, especially in the early prt of the season.

I've said it before but I really think some of our senior players lack the balls needed to lead the side. It's almost infantile.

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"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Yeah, that was one of the reasons I posted it. I thought it was refreshing to see a reasonably positive article about Rafa, especially from a guy who appears on Foorball Weekly podcast which, even now, persists in poking fun at the man for no reason (James Richardson, who I used to really like, said during the time that Rafa was linked to Juve, "why on earth would be a big club like Juventus be interested in someone like Rafa Benitez?" and introduced the first podcast of the season with "what will Alex Ferguson do without Fat Rafa to kick around?").

I listened to the daily podcasts during the World Cup and really enjoyed them so obviously was looking forward to listening football weekly once the new season started.

Then when he introduced the first podcast like that I switched it off and haven't listened to it again since. I thought it was a bit different to the usual shite punditry and analysis you get in the media, obviously I was wrong.

no idea if the rumours they wanted him out etc were true but to be honest the whole they would walk if rafa stayed articles were pure bollocks and they don't exactly look the cat that got the cream now

but carra could deffo get along with rafa for the 5 years previous to last season he has said many times he is one of those who loved the way rafa would tell him how to improve show him videos etc he might not have give a shit about his personal life but on a professional level he was the type of manager he liked.

Did he say that? I am just under the impression of the last couple of interviews where he came across totally different though... but it´s just guessing anyway on the impression of what´s been going on in summer..

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One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

One of my biggest gripes about last season was the lack of responsibility the players seemed to take for it it. Everything was pinned on Rafa and controlling though he was I don't see how he could be balmed for some of the basic errors that were made, especially in the early prt of the season.

I'd agree with that and I was disappointed to read these comments from Carra recently which seem to accuse Rafa of behaving in a way that was not in keeping with the Liverpool way,

"I just think that over the last few years people didn't like Liverpool. Other managers didn't like us, we were always getting criticism in the press, obviously we were not doing well on the pitch so that comes with it, but everything was just negative Liverpool all the time.

"We've had situations like Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce criticising Liverpool and they were right. We shouldn't be getting involved with stuff like that. Everyone else should look at Liverpool and say they have dignity, class. I mean, like the way people look at Arsenal. They do things right and you think they conduct themselves in the right way. I think we have been a club who were like that and we need to get back to that, to do things right. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose; that's football. You can't win all the time. But you can still behave in a way where people respect you."

Alonso was a pretty known footballer in la liga in 2002/2003, was included in the starting 11 of the season by many Spanish football journalists, and was already an international player for Spain when Rafa signed him. I'm not entirely sure what Sid Lowe's point is on his signing, but the whole thing sounded a bit like one of those incredibly optimistic Paul Tomkins articles.

Yeah, it did come across like a Tomkins article actually. Well written, well researched, full of hard facts and designed to debunk mass media myths.

I'd agree with that and I was disappointed to read these comments from Carra recently which seem to accuse Rafa of behaving in a way that was not in keeping with the Liverpool way,

"I just think that over the last few years people didn't like Liverpool. Other managers didn't like us, we were always getting criticism in the press, obviously we were not doing well on the pitch so that comes with it, but everything was just negative Liverpool all the time.

"We've had situations like Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce criticising Liverpool and they were right. We shouldn't be getting involved with stuff like that. Everyone else should look at Liverpool and say they have dignity, class. I mean, like the way people look at Arsenal. They do things right and you think they conduct themselves in the right way. I think we have been a club who were like that and we need to get back to that, to do things right. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose; that's football. You can't win all the time. But you can still behave in a way where people respect you."

It's possible that some of that criticism is aimed at the owners and Purslow, but I read it as him having a go at Rafa which as I said is pretty disappointing.

I couldn't give a flying fuck what Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce have to say about us. O'Neill is a jumped up twat who's a massive hypocrite and has a hugely overstated reputation, while Steve Bruce has a big fat head.

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"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

I couldn't give a flying fuck what Martin O'Neill and Steve Bruce have to say about us. O'Neill is a jumped up twat who's a massive hypocrite and has a hugely overstated reputation, while Steve Bruce has a big fat head.

Plus, 'the way people look at Arsenal'? Maybe if Carra stopped hoofing the ball every chance he got, people would start looking at us like the way they look at Arsenal. But more importantly, why in the name of sweet baby jesus would we want to be looked at like them anyway? eff eff ess