Are you saying a guy couldn't live in the belly of a whale for weeks? Cuz I've seen Pinoccio...that stuff happens all the time!

It was 3 days.

Pinoccio or Jonah? Lol its called a j-o-k-e.

You have to remember billy, tales like Johan were folk lore long before the bible was written. Man had long since altered the true details of stories like this one well before they were ever inked. The point of stories like this are the lessons.."the moral of the story" so to speak. Do I believe there was a Jonah? Yes. Do I believe he had a calling and tried to refused to answer that call? Yes. I'll even go so far as to believe he was probably in a ship wreck involving a whale and that shipwreck caused him to go where he didn't want to. But the rest I believe was made up to make up for better campfire tales. Verbal lore of that nature always has some truth behind it....but let there be no mistake about it, some details were edited for the sake of entertainment.

Well, for your sake, I hope your right. I can't make you believe one way or the other. I believe the bible is to be taken literally unless it makes it known when it is a parable/metaphor.Sometimes, the truth is stranger than fiction. GOD tends to do things in an astonishing way to prove that he is GOD.

Are you really going to tell me you don't think Jonah and the whale was a parable of sorts??? It's a story meant to teach an important lesson.

Yeah. That lesson? When GOD tells you to do something, DO IT

June 16th, 2012, 11:46 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4194Location: Davison Mi

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Exactly. And that's exactly my point. People getting caught p on the fabulous and probably vastly exaggerated tale can miss that point if people try and convince hem the story is literal. It's the moral of the story that matters.....not the stupid whale.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

June 17th, 2012, 12:09 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

What I've never understood is why believers have to defend the genesis creation story so ardently.

The old testament has many absurd stories that conflict with a modern understanding of how the world words (the story of Jonah, the plagues of Egypt, the age of many of the prophets, Noah's ark, etc).

If you are a believer, can't you just accept that the old testament (and probably the book of revelations) is a collection of metaphorical tales and move on?

What I find equally interesting is that those who don't believe call us daft, and blind, and much, much more, and claim, science this and science that. Science is a TOOL used by man to prove things, but Science led by man, who can not conceivably believe that this happened in this particular time frame, well then that's just wrong. I'm not claiming a conspiracy theory, but how much faith does it take to believe in two single cell organisms meeting in the primordial swamp, of "unknown" size and mate, thus being the essence of all living kind Talk about faith!

The intricacies and details of the human body alone, SCREAM intelligent design, but that in it's own right is counter-culture, and or counter world. Because if Science was to agree with intelligent design, then this proves 1. man is not his own master, 2. we are not in control, 3. we do have a destiny, and from the Biblical standpoint there is a penalty to be paid, for refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world.

Even metaphors tell a story, and the story is meant to show us an event, but not only that, why do evolutionist push their failed science on humanity, often by attacking intelligent design, when science itself has proven or not discovered the missing links to connect the single cell organism to the human and all the furry woodland creatures? What was the name of the DNA structure that they discovered that ALL humanity originated from a single set of parents. Something in the female strain I believe, mitochondrial DNA or something like that. So science proved it, but because this is anti-evolution, the science is wrong, or biased, or BS, or whatever.

If you don't want to believe there is a God, okay, your blood is on your own hands, but that doesn't mean that I will stop praying for you and many others on this website. My job is not based upon results, my job is to continue in due diligence to lift your name and life before the Lord himself. So of the 7 billion people on this Earth you my friend are being prayed for, and your name is being lifted before the Creator of the Universe. He knows you, and loves you, and is waiting for you, but will not intrude upon your stubborn heart, and educated mind, but he will draw you near to himself someday, and then you'll be given a choice, and what you do with that choice will seal your fate. So just like Mark 2:2-5, I will play my part as a Christian who is concerned for you and many others and I WILL carry you in prayer before the Lord himself, and the results will be left up to you and him, but I SHALL DO MY PART. So be blessed, and sit back and enjoy the ride, because you and many others aren't really that heavy.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 17th, 2012, 12:23 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

by the way, isn't there a Scripture reference that says, "Now we know in part, but soon we shall know in full."

our human brain with it's 8% usage at best if your Einstein, can not truly fathom, or handle what the other 92% could quite possibly do, see, know, or handle.

God is all about the relationship, He wants you to know him as intimately as He knows you. It just takes a willingness to submit, repent, accept and walk. It's not really that hard, except for the stubbornness and pride that keeps us from submitting.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 17th, 2012, 12:26 am

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3101

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Quote:

The intricacies and details of the human body alone, SCREAM intelligent design, but that in it's own right is counter-culture, and or counter world. Because if Science was to agree with intelligent design, then this proves 1. man is not his own master, 2. we are not in control, 3. we do have a destiny, and from the Biblical standpoint there is a penalty to be paid, for refusing to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world.

Intelligent design is incredibly stupid.

If man was intelligently designed, it was a really sloppy job. The appendix, for example--an organ with no purpose. Or the wisdom teeth, which cause most people problems. Or the fact that the lower back was "designed" in such a way as to cause pain for most adults in middle age--almost as if it was originally "designed" for a four-legged animal. Or the fact that the urinal tract runs through the prostate gland, which swells with age, meaning that almost all men develop problems peeing as they get older (wouldn't an intelligent god have simply moved the urinal tract around this organ)?

Or the myriad of genetic disorders people can be born with.

If the human body was engineered, its pretty terrible work. Certainly not something I would expect from a cosmic/all powerful being.

June 17th, 2012, 1:53 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Blue: I'm sorry but that's the best you've got? That's your basis for Intelligent Design being sloppy? Seriously? All of your suggestions would have merit if we were not living in a fallen world. If our diets weren't based upon processed foods, if our health care was dependent upon chemicals, if our environments were submerged in chemicals. THEN, and only then would your hypothesis have merit.

We live in a fallen world, and from Genesis Chapter 3 we've been on th perpetual downward spiral. Because of the fall, man was cursed to work the ground for his survival. Woman was subjected to pains at childbirth, and a desire to rule over her husband. Unity and perfection were destroyed by a choice, and because of that, our "knowledge" has caused us to grow and expand, and die because of our choices. All you need to do is look at the history of man and watch how it has "evolved" in the use of tools, and techniques learning all the way, till we have come to what we know today.

But for all that knowledge, that so many pursue, and demand as "proof" we're actually pretty stupid. We build these grandiose, tower of babel theories, because our hearts are EVIL, and will not submit to the God that created us. It makes my heart sad to see the people on here that are so lost, so determined to be lost, so adamant about proof, and yet if they would take that one step, trust just that little bit, their world would be rocked by all that they seek. But requires us getting off the pedastal, and to cease being the god of our own lives, and begin to understand who really is God, and that He does want to walk with us through this life. I can only guarantee that it isn't a perfect, or easy, but it is worth it! I have seen, heard, and experienced things that 1. you wouldn't understand, 2. you wouldn't believe, 3. you would probably attribute to something else, and 4. would call me crazy if I could put them into words.

Nothing that lives in this world has been created, that wasn't created through Christ! The only difference is there are some of us in this family of humanity that have been called and recognize our father, and then there are others who are stubborn, hard hearted, and deceived into thinking that there is no God. I guarantee that we will all find out in the end, but it is my hope, and prayer that those who I've been able to speak with, who care to take the chance, will see that I'm not a fool, and that I really do care enough to pray for them, and trust the Lord for the results. Be blessed buddy, I'm still praying!!!

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 17th, 2012, 8:37 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3101

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Ah, yes thanks for reminding me.

Are you telling me you honestly believe that the reason humans speak multiple languages is because God was angered by a bunch of prehistoric men building a 50 foot tall mudhut in Iraq?

June 17th, 2012, 11:19 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Not create an argument here but isn't "pre-historic" our word? So if that is what you use to classify humanity, I'm not sure I understand where you, or anyone else who has never lived at that time, have the right to label anyone, or any time frame. God, the author of time, is not limited by our human standards or classifications, and as that author, is not required to work within the time frames designated by man.

What you classify as "Pre-historic" could have been a very well balanced, productive society. Hmm, let me see was their a man who was rich beyond reason? Had more servants, more cattle, more camels, and more of everything that we can truly comprehend? Then lost it all, and then got it back? It's the OLDEST known book of the Bible, and interestingly enough it even mentions Leviathon, and how about the other name for dinosaurs. Nah, that can't be true, because it's in the Bible. The most widely published book in ETERNITY, printed in more languages, made available to more people, yeah your right, some uber-educated, think-tank participant has more creedance becaue after all he has facts, and bones, and tools, and lions, and tigers, and bears oh my!

So let's see Job is the OLDEST known text, and yet Genesis is the beginning of the book, hmmmm, could we be mistakenly believing a lot of things by looking backwards, when in truth we need to be looking where we're going. It's kind of like plowing a field, the furrows aren't going to be straight and productive if you're constantly looking at the rocks and ground behind you. Focus on what lies ahead and plow straight, OR you can chase bones, and "facts" discovered by man, and take his word for it.

But as for me, I'd prefer to believe the author of the Book, and be prepared for the end of the story instead of squabbling over what men think happened.

So maybe this was a little argumentative, and I apologize for that SERIOUSLY, because today has been a difficult day. It never ceases to amaze me that when you step out in faith on behalf of someone else, the enemy (satan) tries to get you to retreat! But the good news is, "greater is He who is me, than he who is in the world," and I'm too stupid to be scared of a conquered foe. So saddle up boys, we got some more praying to do.

Hystrix, Billy, feel free to grab a corner this may be a long haul to tote these fellars.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 18th, 2012, 11:03 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Blue,

I just found it this morning when I was doing some study time and I found the particular reference to what I was saying about Job.

Chapters 40:15 - 24, is a pretty good discription to "dinosaurs", see for yourself:

15 “Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. 16 What strength it has in its loins, what power in the muscles of its belly! 17 Its tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are close-knit. 18 Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like rods of iron. 19 It ranks first among the works of God, yet its Maker can approach it with his sword. 20 The hills bring it their produce, and all the wild animals play nearby. 21 Under the lotus plants it lies, hidden among the reeds in the marsh. 22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow; the poplars by the stream surround it. 23 A raging river does not alarm it; it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth. 24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes, or trap it and pierce its nose?

Job Chapter 41 speaks of Leviathan, but this description seems more in line with a dragon than anything else. Not to mention it was St. George who is attributed by Legend to have killed the last dragon. And legend and myth are born out of truth, and of course embellished over time as they spread by word of mouth.

My point is that Job being the oldest book of the Bible, makes mention of the "evidence" that science speaks about. But in our pride as "intelligent" human beings with all the technology, we make judgements and theories about times gone by, based on what little evidence we can find.

Again, I would much rather trust the author, and concentrate on my future, then to keep looking back and miss what's coming.

I just wanted to get people to watch the movie and then discuss the movie, in this thread, after they have seen it.

June 19th, 2012, 7:29 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Sorry bro, I was just speaking out on the other side of the coin, trying to help others understand the Christian perspective, backed with Scripture.

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 19th, 2012, 7:33 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3101

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

If you think this is OT, I'll stop commenting Billy. But movies like this are mostly preaching to the choir.

And DD/W4C I wasn't talking about vague illusions to what might be interpreted as a dinosaur. I'm taking about the Tower of Babel, which is a story that, if taken literally, is virtually impossible to rectify with a modern understanding of the world. The equivalent of saying the Earth is flat.

This isn't even close to evolution. We've seen languages be born, evolve and die in modern recorded history--within the last 2k years. Go read an original copy of Beowulf. You probably can't understand any of it, because it's written in "old" English, which is completely different from modern English. Compare French the Canadians speak with French the French speak.

On top of that, the Tower of Babel story doesn't even make any logical sense. It was supposedly built by humans with human technology before the Pyramids, meaning it would've been shorter than the Pyramids. So why didn't god dish out an equally sever punishment to the Egyptians for their buildings?

On top of that, if god's goal was to prevent humans from communicating by introducing different languages, then he failed spectacularly. Many people can speak two or more languages, and learning a new language isn't that difficult, especially if you are young.

The Tower of Babel story is like some kind of explanation you would give to primitive people for a phenomena they didn't understand. Just like the rest of the Old Testament.

If you think this is OT, I'll stop commenting Billy. But movies like this are mostly preaching to the choir.

It is OT. And if you haven't watched the movie, don't put it in any category. Otherwise, you would be just categorizing it in ignorance.

Blueskies wrote:

On top of that, if god's goal was to prevent humans from communicating by introducing different languages, then he failed spectacularly. Many people can speak two or more languages, and learning a new language isn't that difficult, especially if you are young.

The Tower of Babel story is like some kind of explanation you would give to primitive people for a phenomena they didn't understand. Just like the rest of the Old Testament.

The problem with that argument is that you are not taking into account how long it took them to figure out how to translate each others language. We have the benefit of centuries of translations. As a result, we can, relatively speaking by comparison, learn a new language in no time in today's world. They did not have that advantage.

And the site of the Tower would have long since eroded away if they didn't use solid rock like they did with the pyramids.

June 19th, 2012, 9:18 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3056Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

Blue: I continue to be amazed at how sure you are of your hypothesis, and theories based upon modern science, and what they believe they know. That's fine, you can continue to do that, but you are missing some key parts to the story, that you are passing judgment on.

1. What was the intent or the heart of the people? 2. Just because God confused their language, does it mean that separate langauges were created, or is that a human theory that has been judged as "what happened" which in turn gives you ground, albeit shaky, to say that God failed because we know so much now.3. Shoot, you can travel to different parts of this country and misunderstand someone, and you mean to tell me that this is proof positive that God failed? So what, God got jiggy with it, and then started to get crunk, while playing I'm not touching you with Reg Joe? You gots to be kiddin me!4. Going back to Year zero, man was PERFECT, as time went by, and more men and women arrived in the natural way, they began to spread out, and see different environments, and things began to mean different things for different areas. So just as we have regional dialect, I'm pretty sure they did the same. However, now we have the benefits of computers, and books, and education and so on to make it easier, they had pretty much nothing.5. In speaking of Egypt, you are now sitting in judgment, and trying to dictate how you feel God should have acted in such a case. My problem with this is that the context by which you make your statement, and a common misconception amongst non-believers is that God is just waiting for man to screw up so He can smite him, because He's the Almighty Smiter. 5a. This is a FALSE idea, because God is interested in the REDEMPTION of man. Believe it or not, God wants you to know Him, and experience Him, and see that He is very real. But we also have an enemy who hates the very image you bear being human, and so he is doing all he can to deceive you into believing 1. there's no God, and 2. there's no devil. AGAIN, God very much wants to have a relationship with you, like a father and son, but the choice to believe is yours.

In returning to my previous points, what is most important here is not the debate about the OT, but more importantly, what is approaching. My points and Scripture references were meant to show you that the Oldest Book of the Bible, makes reference to the animals that we have remains for. BUT! In our pride, we say, cavemen were Neanderthals, and didn't have a fully functioning brain, and all kinds of theories, based upon what? Not a single scientist was there, and for all of the bone fragments and few items that they can find, you mean to tell me that this is enough evidence to make a judgement on?

Look at the Aborigines of Australia, prior to colonization: they painted caves, and lived off the land, so they didn't need grandiose structures, and all that. They were nomadic, moving from here to there as the seasons and food traveled. Much of what they needed they probably carried, and therefore was pretty disposable. But since we compare society based upon what man has developed as our needs have changed, we make a comparison between the two and suggest that they weren't very smart, or developed, or whatever, because we don't have a lot of physical evidence. Is there a lot of physical evidence of Native Americans and that's only a couple of hundred years ago? They have cave paintings and even a few dwellings in some places, but hide teepees, don't exactly stand the test of time.

My point is, that you are quick to claim God doesn't make sense, God failed, God this and God that, but it's by YOUR standards that you make that judgement, and after all, who are you? For that matter who am I? We're human, fallible, fallen, nothing more than assembled clay with the breath of life, and we being created don't have the right to question the Creator, no more than a clay pot can accuse the potter.

Does this make any sense?

_________________Acts 4:13, 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Rom. 12:1-2

June 19th, 2012, 11:31 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3101

Re: 6 Days = 15+ Billion Years. The Genesis Code.

In concordance with Billy's wishes, can a mod please move the majority of this topic's posts to a new topic?

Quote:

Blue: I continue to be amazed at how sure you are of your hypothesis, and theories based upon modern science, and what they believe they know. That's fine, you can continue to do that, but you are missing some key parts to the story, that you are passing judgment on.

I'm not using scientific theory at all. I'm just using common sense and basic reasoning skills.

Here's my understanding of the scripture: all humans had a common language and were of "one people" (I'm guessing this means nation). They built a tower that stretched nearly into heaven. For some reason, this angered god. He "confused their language" and scattered them "abroad the earth."

I think it's reasonable to interpret this passage as god scattering humans across the face of the earth, breaking them up into different nations and giving them different languages. If this wasn't the case, why does the passage specifically say that, up until the Tower of Babel moment, all humans spoke one language and were of one people?

If you think I'm misinterpreting the passage, please let me know.

But, if my interpretation is correct, then we know that this passage is utter nonsense and completely not true. We know how languages evolve. No fancy science required, you can see blatant examples all over the earth. We know how nations get formed. No science required, just reading a history textbook.

And, there's another problem with this story: how can they build a tower that stretches into heaven when we know heaven isn't in the sky? Of course, primitive people didn't know this, but we know now that there's just sky and above that space. Heaven is not a literal place hanging in the sky. If it exists, it's in some spiritual realm. Thus, you can't build a physical tower tall enough to reach Heaven. The story is clearly untrue.