My point is that had the US done nothing back then, then either Germany or Japan would have made the US their next target and taken over. I was not implying that the country would speak that language literally, but to an occupation. The US even helped rebuild their countries after the war was over. How many other countries would even bother doing that?

You seem to brush off history and only cherry-pick the pieces that support your rant. Responding to the rest of your post would just be pointless.

Ummm you need to research your history some more. The US WAS doing nothing. It was only when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour that America got off its fat lazy butt and did anything at all. Hell, Japan was almost ready to storm the American homeland had it not been for a fluke spotting.

England,Russia, France as well as Australia and New Zealand were going all out fighting with whatever they had both on land and sea all over Europe, Africa, and Russia and America sat idly by until that one fateful event.

Except its not inherently safer than a PC, Miller proves this every year. I'm not complaining since i use Snow Leopard as my main OS, but you wont see me going willy-nilly downloading torrents like its going out of style or visiting questionable sites.

Macs are just as easily exploited as other PCs, we just see less of them due to market share distribution, this quote sums its up best, "Mac OS X is like living in a farmhouse in the country with no locks, and Windows is living in a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town. Charlie Miller

No he doesn't. Every year he finds exploits in previous versions of Mac OS X which are usually fixed just after the conference not because he found the exploits but because others had months before. There's no evidence to support that Charlie Miller found all those faults himself he's just using known exploits.

Market share has nothing to do with it otherwise corporate and internet servers will be sitting ducks because they are using the same underpinnings as Mac OS X... UNIX.

Ummm you need to research your history some more. The US WAS doing nothing. It was only when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour that America got off its fat lazy butt and did anything at all. Hell, Japan was almost ready to storm the American homeland had it not been for a fluke spotting.

England,Russia, France as well as Australia and New Zealand were going all out fighting with whatever they had both on land and sea all over Europe, Africa, and Russia and America sat idly by until that one fateful event.

Sorry America but you don't get the right to be high and mighty.

YOU have no idea what you are talking about!

If this wasn't from my iPhone I could manage a full description of why YOU ARE WRONG!

Starting with Lend Lease!

BTW my Father, an (Australian) pilot in WWII gave me all my knowledge of America's part in the war since 1937.

So we got into WWII to get out of the Depression? We start wars to keep the economy going?

Protracted wars drag down the economy--that's what happened when we were involved in Vier Nam through 3 presidencies.

Now about military applications of the iPhone--has GPS doesn't it? Wouldn't know since i just jave a regular cell phone (still on topic).

No. We didn't get into WWII for the economy, there were more practical reasons (I believe Pearl Harbor - a sneak attack sealed the deal). A consequence of entering the war was that it invigorated our economy. The other big domestic consequence was for women's suffrage and set the path toward universal equality for citizens. It took babes building bombs while hubby was away fighting to usher that change.

Well if you're talking about the late 60's & 70's, Vietnam was a drop in the bucket compared to the 2nd biggest round of social welfare program enactments since FDR, that took bigger amounts of money to finance. Remember all those horrible government building that were built all over, that become slum tenements? The government 'cheese' programs? Those were the direct cause of the deficit numbers in 70's, and it's the continued expansion of these that has caused the economy to stay in the red.

No matter how benevolent your policy, giving free things to people costs money. In the case of social welfare, the investment didn't pay off for any industry, and worse it didn't do anything to change the financial numbers for the groups it was aimed at helping. The investment in private industries supplying military and aerospace worked out rather well... we're both typing on a device that owes it's existence to that capital. In fact most of everything you enjoy is from that kind of government spending... for example most innovations in medicine.

We (well a very small group of us) just passed giant another round of these social welfare initiatives. Want to make a $ bet and exchange emails, that in 10 years it will turn out pretty much the same?

Ummm you need to research your history some more. The US WAS doing nothing. It was only when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour that America got off its fat lazy butt and did anything at all. Hell, Japan was almost ready to storm the American homeland had it not been for a fluke spotting.

England,Russia, France as well as Australia and New Zealand were going all out fighting with whatever they had both on land and sea all over Europe, Africa, and Russia and America sat idly by until that one fateful event.

Sorry America but you don't get the right to be high and mighty.

America didn't enter the war until both Japan and Hitler were maneuvered into a position they knew would provoke the US and when that happened us Americans saw then entire massive manufacturing base dedicate itself to the War on two fronts. We turned out weapons 24/7.

There were American soldiers and pilots but NONE of them were there with any official backing. I do know about WWII with both my grandparents (my dad's dad was a Pom serving in the Pacific and my mum's dad is New Zealander serving in Canada). My dad's dad became a POW but my mum's dad never really served in the fighting because he became a pilot but by the time he finished his training he was deemed too old to fight so they got him training other pilots.

By the time America had actually gotten involved England's armaments were becoming scarce but they were still digging in.

America may have cleaned up but they by no rights can claim they are the ones who won the war. If it had not been for the H-Bombs or Hitler making stupid mistakes then America could have conceivably been in a similar position to everyone else by being involved in a long drawn out war.

Ummm you need to research your history some more. The US WAS doing nothing. It was only when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour that America got off its fat lazy butt and did anything at all. Hell, Japan was almost ready to storm the American homeland had it not been for a fluke spotting.

England,Russia, France as well as Australia and New Zealand were going all out fighting with whatever they had both on land and sea all over Europe, Africa, and Russia and America sat idly by until that one fateful event.

Sorry America but you don't get the right to be high and mighty.

Not to get off the topic, but the US was in the Depression and there was the sentiment in the country that the US should not get involved in another European conflict (remember WWI?). The US was in a period of isolationism. FDR did send equipment to GB as a Lend Lease policy--which was against the Neutrality Acts of the 1930's. FDR wanted to aid GB against Germany, but he lacked the capacity to get involved into the conflict. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor his task was made easy--he declared war on Japan and its allies--a power not given to the President in the Constitution.

Japan did not want to invade the US, it realized that that would be futile. Admiral Yamamoto, educated in the US knew that Japan could not win a protracted war with the US. Japan wanted to cripple the US Pacific fleet, grab as much territory as possible and then sue for peace. Shortly before the bombing of Pearl Harbor, Japan was to deliver an ultimatum to the US, that would lead to a declaration of War on the US, but the translation of the Japanese coded message took too long, the bombs were away when Secretary of State Hull got the ultimatum. This made any attempt for Japan to sue for peace impossible since their act was a surprise attack.

Back to the topic, Is Apple going to design software for the military?

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

No. We didn't get into WWII for the economy, there were more practical reasons (I believe Pearl Harbor - a sneak attack sealed the deal). A consequence of entering the war was that it invigorated our economy. The other big domestic consequence was for women's suffrage and set the path toward universal equality for citizens. It took babes building bombs while hubby was away fighting to usher that change.

Well if you're talking about the late 60's & 70's, Vietnam was a drop in the bucket compared to the 2nd biggest round of social welfare program enactments since FDR, that took bigger amounts of money to finance. Remember all those horrible government building that were built all over, that become slum tenements? The government 'cheese' programs? Those were the direct cause of the deficit numbers in 70's, and it's the continued expansion of these that has caused the economy to stay in the red.

No matter how benevolent your policy, giving free things to people costs money. In the case of social welfare, the investment didn't pay off for any industry, and worse it didn't do anything to change the financial numbers for the groups it was aimed at helping. The investment in private industries supplying military and aerospace worked out rather well... we're both typing on a device that owes it's existence to that capital. In fact most of everything you enjoy is from that kind of government spending... for example most innovations in medicine.

We (well a very small group of us) just passed giant another round of these social welfare initiatives. Want to make a $ bet and exchange emails, that in 10 years it will turn out pretty much the same?

History, those who don't learn it are doomed to repeat it.

You seem to take things too seriously--I was only attacking your premises that getting into war helps our economy. It is beyond the scope of this forum to talk about the amount the government spends--unless it is for Macs.

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

By the time America had actually gotten involved England's armaments were becoming scarce but they were still digging in.

America may have cleaned up but they by no rights can claim they are the ones who won the war. If it had not been for the H-Bombs or Hitler making stupid mistakes then America could have conceivably been in a similar position to everyone else by being involved in a long drawn out war.

I agree with part of what you are saying. It took all of the Allies working together to defeat the Axis Powers and none working alone could have done it by themselves. But do not think that the US was doing nothing before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor--LEND LEASE--ARMS FOR CHINA--FLYING TIGERS. And that is A-for Atomic (fission bomb) Bomb. H-for Hydrogen (fusion) came after WWII. But I fail to see what all of this has to do with the topic we are suppose to be on.

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

Sorry you think so. I am happy I'll be able get insurance soon with a pre existing condition. After paying my insurance bills every month my entire adult life, Mutual of Omaha dropped me after an major operation in 2000. IMHO reigning in these insurance companies is the way for the USA to join the civilized and advanced countries in the world. Of course those that disagree probably haven't yet experienced what I have.

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

It's hard to believe that the fact that the US, "video game" is almost synonym with "First Person Shooter" is a coincidence. Somebody must be lobbying for all those kids to grow eager to join the army. Then they are sent to Iraq, Afghanistan or whatever country the US is kicking ass (or getting their ass kicked) at that moment, and they see real death inches distance or first hand. Then it's too late!

Back on topic: I don't give a damn. Sorry for the useless post.

I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.

You should really take advantage of this new iBook store that's coming and try many of the fine books in the history and foreign relations sections. I think you'll find it fills in the gaps from those pamphlets they hand out at drum circles and in front of Trader Joe's.

On a side note: if you think that 9/11 was a reaction to American influence in the MIddle East and not a publicity stunt for the disenfranchised 52nd kid of wealthy Saudi contractor, then I think you must agree that it was the stupidest military tactic ever. Way to go helping your enemy, but that tends to happen when you kill 3000 foreign citizens. But I think it's much more likely that the reason your premise doesn't square with logic or history, is that it's incorrect. I know it's boring and takes a lot of time reading really tedious documents/books, but a scientific approach would really help you test out your theories.

You my friend, are going to love iBooks, lots for you to learn in there.

I'm glad someone said it. I always find it amusing how so many people don't realize just how unsuccessful the 9/11 attacks were. I also find it disgusting how it's always those who have never served that love to sit back and criticize the very people and organizations that protect their freedoms.

It's hard to believe that the fact that the US, "video game" is almost synonym with "First Person Shooter" is a coincidence. Somebody must be lobbying for all those kids to grow eager to join the army. Then they are sent to Iraq, Afghanistan or whatever country the US is kicking ass (or getting their ass kicked) at that moment, and they see real death inches distance or first hand. Then it's too late!

Back on topic: I don't give a damn. Sorry for the useless post.

First, please tell all of us your experience with the military and what has led you to believe we are getting our asses kicked. Also feel free to share it with some military personnel - they may even give you a guided tour of the real world! Second, please educate us all on what your experience is with "real death inches distance or first hand." Third, get online and play some first person shooters. You'll notice there are people from all over the world playing it - which would mean that, according to your conspiracy theory, we are inadvertently training the rest of the world to fight us. And fourth, rather than apologize for your post, next time just hit the back arrow.

First, please tell all of us your experience with the military and what has led you to believe we are getting our asses kicked. Also feel free to share it with some military personnel - they may even give you a guided tour of the real world! Second, please educate us all on what your experience is with "real death inches distance or first hand." Third, get online and play some first person shooters. You'll notice there are people from all over the world playing it - which would mean that, according to your conspiracy theory, we are inadvertently training the rest of the world to fight us. And fourth, rather than apologize for your post, next time just hit the back arrow.

First, please tell all of us your experience with the military and what has led you to believe we are getting our asses kicked.

Sorry, Everybody loves a winner, right? U-S-A! U-S-A!
Let's say Iraq. Being there that long, by itself is having your ass kicked IMHO. I won't say Vietnam because that was long ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneaburns

Also feel free to share it with some military personnel - they may even give you a guided tour of the real world!

No thanks. I know the type. First Hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneaburns

Second, please educate us all on what your experience is with "real death inches distance or first hand."

If you insist. I meant "Getting Killed or Injured for Real". No, I have no personal experience but we can all agree that it happens for real. Unless ALL the media are lying and there was zero casualties in every recent war.
I grew up watching GI Joe/Transformers, etc. american cartoons with a lot of violence yet no one gets ever killed/injured. It's almost as if war is only fun. Japanese cartoons are very different; people die and suffer. At first I was shocked, but then I came to realise it is a better lesson for kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneaburns

Third, get online and play some first person shooters. You'll notice there are people from all over the world playing it - which would mean that, according to your conspiracy theory, we are inadvertently training the rest of the world to fight us.

No, it's no CT, just my opinion. And I'm not talking about "training" (like your gonna become a better soldier by playing FPSs), but rather teaching that gun killing is fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneaburns

And fourth, rather than apologize for your post, next time just hit the back arrow.
Sincerely,
Annoyed Paratrooper

You got me there. Beware of the trees.

I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.

There were American soldiers and pilots but NONE of them were there with any official backing. I do know about WWII with both my grandparents (my dad's dad was a Pom serving in the Pacific and my mum's dad is New Zealander serving in Canada). My dad's dad became a POW but my mum's dad never really served in the fighting because he became a pilot but by the time he finished his training he was deemed too old to fight so they got him training other pilots.

By the time America had actually gotten involved England's armaments were becoming scarce but they were still digging in.

America may have cleaned up but they by no rights can claim they are the ones who won the war. If it had not been for the H-Bombs or Hitler making stupid mistakes then America could have conceivably been in a similar position to everyone else by being involved in a long drawn out war.

I abandoned another Mac daily news site because it became a political gutter; there was zero Apple or tech discussion. We don't need that to happen here too.

If you feel a need to soapbox, fine. Please find a better place to do it.

As for Apple and the military, America's armed forces will be demobilized well within a decade. It'll be interesting to see what stateside uses this technology will have.

1. you couldn't be more wrong.

2. to the rest of you anti-military pieces of shit: take your comments elsewhere. Every last member of the US military has signed an agreement to give their life, if necessary, for YOU, YOUR country, and YOUR Constitution, you ungrateful fucks.

If you don't like how they're used, then get off your dead hippie ass and take it up with your local ballot box, you goddamned spoiled little communist fucks.

The smartest thing you said was "I grew up watching GI Joe..."
Clearly, your mind never evolved any further than that.

Actually I watched many other shows as well. Someone wasn't that lucky... Guess there weren't those many TV stations in the Texas countryside, were they?

I got to think it is a shitty cartoon, the same as transformers. I watched it again lately out of nostalgia, but to the eyes of an adult it's just a crappy cartoon. Unless, of course, you are a subscribber to "Guns & Ammo".

Quote:

Originally Posted by echosonic

Get down on your fucking knees and thank those people for doing what you aren't man enough to do.

And then see my previous post, because its addressing you as well.

And what would that be, exactly? Becoming cannon fodder for conflicts that have nothing to do with anything except big money? You really think those are heroes of your country? Well, listen to me, redneck: That ain't my country, and being "Man Enough" means things other than getting a gun and killing people under orders.

PS: too much 24 will kill you.

I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.

Clearly, your mind never evolved any further than that. Get down on your fucking knees and thank those people for doing what you aren't man enough to do.

And then see my previous post, because its addressing you as well.

Whoa echosonic! Lighten up! I don't that there is a poster here that is laying any blame at the feet of the "grunts", officers, or even higher command soldiers protecting our freedoms. In fact, most people are simply in awe of the dedication and bravery of the men and women that serve.

However... if I may speak in generalizations... I do think that a lot of people are skeptical of the ambitions of the politicians, lobbyists, and Military Complex behind the scenes, that are involved. At least that is where "I" lay the blame for the prolonged campaigns and conflicts.

The heartbreak and pain of the families, and the men and women that will carry the horrors of war every day to their grave, are rightful heroes... all of 'em. Always have been, and should always be.

However history teaches us that the "powers that be" don't give a flyin" F***, whether it's the desire for power, or the chase after the easy and almighty "buck", that military involvement entails.

As an AAPL shareholder, I applaud their involvement if their heart is in saving lives through better equipment and education to do "the job". If Apple's only reason is to better their bottom-line, I have a serious conflict with me conscience supporting this involvement.

But who "really" knows Apple's intentions? We only can hope & pray for the former... rather than the lamented and very sad reasoning of "it's just business".

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member

Why do you think so many people notably Arabs hate America? Is it really because they're jealous of you and your way of life?

NO.

In the first Afghan war between them and Russia America gave Afghanistan weapons and then left them to it. They didn't send troops or anything like that. They just said "Here you go it's all yours". Sure they trained them how to use the weapons but there was no active involvement during that war.

Yes it would have been dangerous to do so because the Cold War was still on then and I understand that but you left them with a country that was destroyed and scorched. You never helped out afterwards with rebuilding the communities with schools and hospitals and all that. If you really wanted to you could have made powerful allies with Afghanistan (they fought off the Russian might on their own) and all America had to do was play the nice guy and help rebuild the country but instead America played the jerk and look where it led to.

Now a little over 20 years later and America decides to attack Afghanistan because of some information that Osama was living there. They ousted the Taliban but made a complete mess in their wake before heading off to Iraq so they could screw that country up some more meanwhile the Taliban retake power in Afghanistan and during it all Afghanistan is no better off in fact is much worse for the whole experience.

Then you get crises like Darfur and they ask for America's help and America says "No" because they're off fighting in Iraq in an unjustified war based on made up "intelligence". People in their thousands die because America did nothing to help.

And yet you have a go at me for calling America arrogant or at the very least being perceived to be arrogant?

People dislike America simply because it never cleans up after itself. It gate crashes only the parties that interests it, pukes in their flower pots, craps on their lawn, then heads off to the next party that it's not invited to, meanwhile the parties it is invited to it blows off because it doesn't see any value in them. It's selfish and rude and people like that in general are disliked. Sure they might be tolerated for a while by those who think they can get something out of it but ultimately their smiles are facades.

Instead of spending trillions on warfare why doesn't America spend it on healthcare and education? How about helping other countries properly not with military might but with acts of kindness and generosity? How about when military might is needed like in Africa instead of saying "No" because you can't get anything out of the continent you say "Yes" because it's the right thing to do to stand up for those who can't stand up for themselves and after the battles stick around and feed the people and rebuild their communities and ensure they have education and proper healthcare?

When people see that at heart America is actually a nice nation instead of the greedy blood thirsty country that they see now as then and only then can peace truly come. It has to be America because they are deemed to be the most powerful nation on earth. Reality is it won't be America but instead the United Nations. It may be too late for America to get on people's good sides again. It's a shame... American history is filled with missed opportunities to actually be the good guy and not claim to be it. Actions speak louder than words and currently the actions aren't pleasant.

How many innocent villagers were killed by the viet cong and North Viet Nam regulars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowededwookie

How many civilians were slaughtered by America in the Gulf War as well as Afghanistan and Iraq in recent history?

How many civilians are being targeted and killed by the so called freedom fighters in Iraq, Afghanistan, Malaysia and in the Middle East? Looks like they are killing the very people they claim to be fight for.

How can you justify using civilians as human shields? How can you justify using the religious tensions between the Shiite and Suni religions to further instability that will end up in a religious war to further your own hatred? I guess that it's alright to blow up a mosque, to kill mourners at a funeral, to target markets and schools and then blame the US for causing all of the instability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowededwookie

You're whinging and moaning about 3000 Americans when America slaughters that on any given day during their wars?

And why not mourn these innocent people who were the target of the same people responsible for the above. We should mourn all of the innocent people killed by these terrorists "freedom" fighters. And if they win their war, do you think that they will allow the "freed" people the right to oppose them--or are recent events in Iran so easily dismissed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowededwookie

Quit being so high and mighty and learn the real history not that propaganda that your government spews out and you lot lap up.

Shouldn't you learn a little more from history before you ask others to do so with your misinformed opinions? See my other posts responding to yours.

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

........................
When people see that at heart America is actually a nice nation instead of the greedy blood thirsty country that they see now as then and only then can peace truly come. It has to be America because they are deemed to be the most powerful nation on earth. Reality is it won't be America but instead the United Nations. It may be too late for America to get on people's good sides again. It's a shame... American history is filled with missed opportunities to actually be the good guy and not claim to be it. Actions speak louder than words and currently the actions aren't pleasant.

Rather than take up more space to argue off topic, and given my previous responses to your other post, what we do agree on is highlighted above. Now if Europe took action in Kosovo, Africa took action in Darfur, Sudan, Ethiopia, the Arab Nations and Israel make peace and the Arab Nations recognize Israel, the world would be a better place. 'Nuff said??

無心The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders., Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit__Edward Abbey

Regarding a militarized iPad, which finger gesture will launch the cruise missile ? A two finger swipe or three finger pinch?

Having spent a few days at Raytheon's Methuen, MA facility, I would have to believe that the middle finger, flexed straight in the air, with the rest in closed fist arrangement, would be the correct gesture.

Pity the agnostic dyslectic. They spend all their time contemplating the existence of dog.