From the October 23 edition of Liberty Counsel's Faith and Freedom Podcast:

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HOLLY MEADE (LIBERTY COUNSEL DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS): It’s never positive results when we -- when we try to go against the way God has created us. He has created every cell in our body. He knows us. And the facts speak for themselves. When you see these, especially minors, going through this hormone therapy, having surgery, there is a 40 percent increase of suicide right there. So, there’s the facts showing this is not an effective way to deal with these issues.

MAT STAVER (HOST, LIBERTY COUNSEL FOUNDER): And it’s not because the society doesn’t accept them, because there’s studies in other more accepting, if you will, countries that show the same high level of mental stress for someone who is engaged in same-sex activity or having gender confusion that they’re dealing with. So, it’s not just, oh well, you need to change society’s acceptance of this and all will be fine. No, it’s when you take a person or anything that's created to have a certain function and identity, and then you go against that. You’re going against what God created you to be. God created male and female as complementary sexes with complementary relationships. It is all part of relationship that God ultimately created as part of the natural created order.

MATT BARBER (FORMER LIBERTY COUNSEL, FOUNDER OF BARBWIRE.COM): Yeah.

STAVER: When you, ultimately, try to undermine male and female as though it doesn’t exist -- or you simply want to abolish it or change it and create it in any way you want it to be, and you do that in the area of marriage as well -- that has huge ramifications, not only sociologically, but spiritually as well. It is a direct attack on the very core essence of Christianity, on our creator who created us in his image.

MEADE: Right. And these counselors help these minors get to the root cause. They talk with them. It’s just talk therapy. There’s no weird -- there’s no electrodes going on or anything like that. It’s just helping them talk through what is the root cause. Was there some kind of abuse in the background?

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BARBER: And Mat, you make a great point about how those who oppose change, they deflect by saying, no, no, the reason you see so much depression and alcoholism and drug abuse among those in the so-called LGBT community is because of homophobia, because of a lack of acceptance. But as you point out, Mat, statistically there is no difference between countries that fully accept those lifestyle choices and countries where so-called homophobia or transphobia prevails. So that’s a deflection. The reality is that people, when they are swimming upstream against God’s will, it creates instability not just in your emotional -- kind of in your psyche -- but in your soul.

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