(15-01-2013 12:07 AM)witerat Wrote: It correlation has several contributing factors, It is harder fail with a gun, access become opportunity, suicide by gun may be messy, but blowing one brains out is thought to be painless by the suicidal.

There are millions of people who own guns; some are probably at one time or another suicidal at one time or another and didn't end their lives at all. I would guess from my personal experience most if not all people who commit suicide using a gun, have attempted suicide in other ways before.

I'm hardly a NRA fan, so I'd like to see more than a memo and conjecture, coupled with outdated medical journal. I dismiss msnbc almost as quickly as I dismiss their polar opposite Fox News.

Are you saying your your anecdotal experience, out weighs this study and others since?
Considering how media corporations are beholding to big business, This their article appears to be pretty bold. Ever noticed how climate change has been buried lately?
It almost seems that you might be a difficult person to convince anything. Over-scepticism is as much a problem as unscepticism.
You surely, must have a provisional impression of what the truth looks like on this issue.

(15-01-2013 12:08 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote: The biggest problem I currently see in the whole gun debate is the whole 'keep-the-sharp-objects-from-the-little-people' attitude toward gun control. Nobody ever blames the lunatics or the criminals anymore. Or the parents who raised them. Or the teachers, classmates, doctors, psychologists, counsellors, employers, and clergy who saw the warning signs and didn't do jack shit to intervene. No it's the guns. That disconnect baffles me.

I think that has to be more how you see it, than the actual reality.

Obviously, by definition, it has to be "the guns"; that is way it is called a "gun debate".

If you have a debate about "lunatics or the criminals...the parents who raised them...the teachers, classmates, doctors, psychologists, counselors, employers, and clergy", that's a separate topic for policy and debate, to be had at that time.

Yes "they" are going after guns, in general, right now, and that is mainly because of this thing called politics. Politics is also why you see proposals, that aren't really anywhere close to passing a threshold that I would set for even looking like you actually give a shit. However, when you play 'innocent victims shot by a killer in mass shooting' on television, to get the same viewers watching 'rich bitches fight over who has the best boob job', public sentiment shifts toward, 'do something about guns', regardless; and to maintaining popularity requires acting like you actually care, and acting like, even if you actually do care, something within the realm of helping the problem would actually be able to get done.

My problem with the "gun debate" is that it's a joke. I don't think you could call it a debate, a conversion, or really anything above a simple acknowledgement. It's symbolic of all of the other "debates"-- they are jokes; there aren't any. It's why all of the serious people stay home. There are smart people all over the place that have the solution to almost any problem one could throw out there. It does require room for experimentation, but we are all limited and doomed from anything reasonable getting done, due to the dedication, by definition, of a certain political ideology (conservatism) that answers every problem with a, "sorry, no, we don't want to fix it". Well, sorry, no, you can't get past that. You can't get by that for guns, so I would only find it reasonable to assume, you aren't going to skip guns for more difficult problems.

And if anything else could be added in as baffling, it would be people having the reactions and being offended (especially the NRA and pro-gun people) by guns being used for their intended purpose. It makes me want to go into people's kitchens and question whether or not they should be buttering toast or cutting meat with a knife. Shouldn't they be killing with them?

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell

As a NRA member and sometime soon a instructor, We(I've talked to a lot of armed professionals about this) wernt too impressed with how Lapeirre handled things, blaming video games and movies

However, there are many "medical" 3 letter organizations out there that are notoriously anti-gun. The American Association of Pediatrics comes to mind a lot. These organizations are just as bad as the NRA when it comes to getting infomation from.

Quote: I'm hardly a NRA fan, so I'd like to see more than a memo and
conjecture, coupled with outdated medical journal. I dismiss msnbc
almost as quickly as I dismiss their polar opposite Fox News.

Now that isn't fair, you can't even compare Faux Noise bias to any other news network. That is like comparing a house cat to a tiger.

Its nothing but false equivalency nonsense!

Quote: However, there are many "medical" 3 letter organizations out there that
are notoriously anti-gun. The American Association of Pediatrics comes
to mind a lot. These organizations are just as bad as the NRA when it
comes to getting information from.

Quote: I'm hardly a NRA fan, so I'd like to see more than a memo and
conjecture, coupled with outdated medical journal. I dismiss msnbc
almost as quickly as I dismiss their polar opposite Fox News.

Now that isn't fair, you can't even compare Faux Noise bias to any other news network. That is like comparing a house cat to a tiger.

Its nothing but false equivalency nonsense!

Quote: However, there are many "medical" 3 letter organizations out there that
are notoriously anti-gun. The American Association of Pediatrics comes
to mind a lot. These organizations are just as bad as the NRA when it
comes to getting information from.

More false equivalency nonsense...

You cant cry and cite a vague interpretation of logical fallacies for everything you don't like.

A biased study promoted by biased people suppressed by other biased people.

Biased study also supported by another biased study based on moot facts.

87 percent of non-NRA gun-owners and 74 percent of NRA gun owners support the former, and 80 percent and 79 percent, respectively, endorse the latter.
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Really? NRA member support BGC's? You kid! Man, they should make this SOP for gun shops. They could even have a computer system that instantly checks your name. That would be awesome.

Yes, after resisting temptation to answer the "I Miss Theists" thread with "But my aim is improving", I felt I couldn't resist temptation twice in a row. It's like holding back a sneeze, too much and my head might explode.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein