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Little bit of a dead period with three weeks until the Bowl Game, and it looks like the coaches have hit the road to see if they can round out Pitt’s recruiting class.

As of writing this, the 2019 class is ranked a respectable 32nd on Rivals.com (which I consider to the be the authority on such matters). It comprises 20 commits and averages exactly three stars (cue loud yelling and catcalls from half of the Pitt fanbase…right about now.)

There is one four star recruit, the recently added Florida RB Daniel Carter.

Editor’s note: Pitt QB Davis Beville was upgraded to four stars after I wrote this. H2P!

And there is one two star recruit, the recently added South Carolina DE Nate Temple.

The rest of the recruits have three stars, and will be looked at to fill the roster spots vacated by 19 departing seniors, and probably also a couple of transfers out of the program.

So let’s start there. We are losing the following seniors:

WR – 2 – Rafael Arujo Lopes and Kellen McAlone. Lopes was solid this year. McAlone was a walk on that earned a scholarship (I think), and did not make an impact.

DB – 3 – Dennis Briggs, Phillpe Motley and Colon Janov are graduating. Briggs played a lot and was solid against the run, although somewhat spotty in pass coverage. Motley was a solid cover guy. Janov played on special teams.

It’s important to understand that goal of recruiting is not to directly replace graduation losses with guys that are going to play immediately. Instead, the goal of recruiting is to build well-rounded depth for 3-4 years down the road. Of course there are always going to be exceptions.

Barring those exceptions, each class should build upon the next. Next year’s team will largely be the result of the successes (or mistakes) of 2014 and 2015, with a little bit of 2016 and 2017 sprinkled in. This year’s recruiting class will be a predictor of our team’s success in 2021 and 2022. It follows that by looking at our recruiting class today, we can in some ways predict the future.

Of course player development is also a factor. And whether or not the staff is developing Pitt’s players is again the subject for another post. Remember folks, we have a long offseason.

So let us focus on the incoming class. Question 1…are we at least replacing graduation losses? Question 2, are we building depth in areas where we are thin? Question 3 would be “are they four stars?” Or more accurately “are we upgrading the talent?”

The answer to the four star question is largely “no”.

The answer to the talent question is less clear.

In my opinion the best indicator of talent that is easily accessible to the fan base is a player’s high school highlight video. The eye test is real, and even if a recruit is a proverbial “man among boys” a video will give you clues to things like their athletecism, explosiveness and game speed.

Here’s an example: I don’t want to toot my own horn (too much…) but I remember watching four-star WR Ruben Flowers’ film and thinking to myself, “I’m not that impressed. He doesn’t look that fast, and he doesn’t look that athletic”. Lo and behold, Mr. Flowers currently does not have a roster spot. This could be for entirely different reasons that what I observed (I’m not an “insider”), but I do know I was not impressed by his film, and I know Flowers is no longer on the team. So there is that.

Another example is three-star redshirt freshman Jaylen Twyman. Jaylen is a defensive tackle. I remember watching his video and thinking to myself “Wow he’s really quick, and consistently gets good penetration, I bet he’s going to be a good one.” Sure enough he’s already flashed the ability to penetrate at the college level in his redshirt freshman year. I stand by my prediction that he’s going to be be very good.

All that to say, I don’t know if the incoming class has more raw talent than the graduating class, because it’s three-star guys replacing three-star guys.

What’s more, the only way for me (or anyone else on this blog) to truly answer the talent question would be to look at every single highlight video side by side, and subject each player to the eye test. Yes it’s still somewhat subjective, but it’s certainly more data-based then simply saying we are not upgrading because we are not getting four-stars.

Editors note: In-Depth video analysis would be a great offseason activity, so look for this during the long dark days of winter.

What we can focus on now are questions #1 and #2: Are we replacing our losses? Are we building depth?

The answer is, for the most part is yes. As evidenced by the following table:

We are replacing graduation losses in all but two positionsWe have built solid depth pretty much across the board. RB and QB are a little young. Note 20 DL!

A couple of observations here:

Note that we will only have 12 OL unless we grab one or two more. I think we’d all feel more comfortable if we had 14 or 15 so we could go three-deep. It looks like OL coach Dave Borbley and company are chasing a couple more guys, and I’d be surprised if they didn’t land at least one. As some of you will likely point out, there will probably also be an OL transfer.

I also think it’s fair to point out that FB George Aston is a converted walk-on linebacker and so it’s not outside the realm of possibility that the staff does that again. The trick of course is finding the right guy.

Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing us sign another Running Back as well, although from what I understand there is a 6′ 3″ 240 lb linebacker recruit (Brandon George) whose high school video looks very similar to one Mr. James Conner. I have no idea if the staff will flip George to RB, but I think the entire fan base would watching those lightweight ACC defensive backs get trucked on a regular basis.

All in all, for better or worse, this class is very Narduzzi. He’s shown a good ability to recruit three-star depth at nearly every position, and he’s also shown a marked inability to consistently bring in four star talent. So far, the Narduzzi approach has translated into a slightly-better-than-.500 team in a weak division. It’s likely that without anything changing this trend will continue, at least for the next four years.

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Michaelangelo Monteleone (aka MA, MM, Mike...)
Michaelangelo holds a degree in Travel Writing from the University if Pittsburgh, and he was a former staff writer for InPittsburgh Newsweekly, and currently resides near Atlanta, Georgia. He has been a Pitt fan since 1997 after he witnessed Pitt upset then #22 Miami on Thursday night.

A lot of good info here but don’t look for much immediate help from the 2019 class …. which of course is customary. Instead, the 2017/2018 classes are going to have to step up.

Nonetheless, your point on the make-up of the 2019 class is well taken. Obviously OL and TEs are needed, and I would certainly hope we get a few of them to commit this Dec and Jan.

As far as RB goes, we have 2 seniors who gained 1000 yards this year. I don’t see at this point in time why this is a referendum that AJ Davis, Sibley and Salahuddin are failures. And of course, there is V Carter who was recruited as a DB. The French connection of Ffrench, Carter and Shockey provides a lot of speed on the jet sweeps (or however else you want to se them)

I see the D developing, improving and adding depth. The O remains the question mark starting with the inconsistent QB who has started 13-14 games, followed by the OL-3 starters to be determined and we know nothing of the depth in that group. Would be great to have the OL anchored by at least two or three 4 star recruits each year…the best run-pass OL we have had since the Mark May days was in ’16 when Biz, DJ and future NFL pro-bowler Brian O’Neil not to mention a TE who could catch and block-their results speak volumes to having quality road-graders paving the way.

In conclusion the D is growing and will continue to improve on the field and in the statistics game…Duzz and Borbs have to get at least couple of 4 star O-lineman for that side of the ball to consistently improve.

I think it takes 2 more years to turn the corner if they can recruit some studs on the line…if not..never let a bad game ruin a great tailgate…..

Great run blockers are not necessarily great pass blockers. And great pass protectors are not necessarily great run blockers. Why do I think Borbely will stick with his scheme by playing the best run blockers he can find and continue to show what he showed this year?

Good to see we have a 4 star QB and RB coming. Recruiting, especially of linemen is about filling the pipeline so that every year you have enough depth to replace starters with guys that are ready to go.
It is rare to get guys that are ready to play as freshmen, especially at Pitt.

I still see Narduzzi signing a few transfers and Juco guys to fill needs (O-line). We were lucky to get Millan, but we need O-Tackles that are going to start for more than one year. I also see some juniors that are never going to play to hang up their cleats one way or another.

Just want to say that I think so far recruit MM(Michaelangelo) is not messinging up this POV site at all.

The eye test I had at the beginning looking at his previous posts seems to be paying off nicely…glad I got this one right….oh, yeah, and Reed too….I’ll let him toot his own horn on that as he is prone.

Pitt’s recruiting is a solid 3 star. Thats really how its been since the Wanny days. Neither Chryst or Narduzzi are great recruiters. For Pitt to improve their recruiting,I would think they need assistants that are better recruiters, some new tactics to land 4 stars, and possibly a new recruiting director/coordinator. I dont think the recruiting budget is an issue or serious constraint at this point. It comes down to tactics and execution.

Pitt is chasing Va Tech and Miami in recruiting star power. But, Pitt should be able to at least get up to Tech’s level (historically a 3.3 avg star). Theres plenty of talent in Pitt’s footprint (OH, PA, VA, MD, NJ) plus FL. But for whatever reason, Pitt hasnt developed good pipelines with certain schools that produce elites.

It’s probably been done before but an off-season article comparing Wanny, Chryst and Narduzzi recruiting is a good idea. I don’t think I’ll arrive at any different conclusion than you did but at least it will be something to read

If we could get 2-3 elite recruits a year that would make a huge difference…I would like to know the mindset of a guy like Robert Foster who wants to go to an elite school and ride the pine most of his 4 years..is that a common thread that might keep elite talent away…these kids watch a lot of ESPN which I refuse to watch because I get tied of the constant bombardment of 3-6 schools and the other 8-10 which are constantly part of ESPN’d regular “background noise” …most of we ole folks have tired of their non-sense a long time ago…but these kids watch ite-get brain-washed and don’t seem to be able to see their is another side out there…Tyler Boyd(4star) and Brian O’Neil are 2 prime examples of player who took the road less traveled and reached the final destination of NFL employment ahead of many….bring your talent to PITT and play early…market your skills on the field…we need 2-3 brave elite souls a year to commit

Just keep in mind that the pressure on some of these 17 year-olds is a lot to handle. Foster told his parents the night before that Pitt was his school but woke up feeling differently. And in the case of Boyd, it widely projected that he was going to PSU until the sanctions hit. O’Neil was a 3-star athletic TE recruit.

Each has his own story …. but as I stated on this site time and again …. Pitt is a school that has to rely on developing 3-stars, especially with less and less local 4-stars being made available. Since the mid 90s, Pitt has lost as many local 4-stars (Brandon Short, LaVar Arrington, Ty Law, Nick Marmo, Steve Breaston, etc) as it was able to keep and nowadays it is getting hardly any.

Well said Bernie. If I recall correctly after the first Duke Game where Boyd caught something like 200 yards, Foster tweeted “Man I should have went to Pitt”. That tweet was quickly deleted and he ended up getting minimal playing time at Bama for the next three years. Such a waste. FWIW, O’Neill was a three star, but there is no debating he was a stud. (maybe even a two star, but I have to look).

What i think that this staff does do better than some other staffs is move guys around. Granted it was Chryst that moved Conner from DE to RB and that worked out pretty well, but I seem to see a lot more position switches under this particular regime.

After the PSN article on the TE recruiting, I’ve got to wonder just how these coaches go about recruiting talent in such a competitive environment. Telling a committed pass catcher that they like him as a blocking TE seems rather stupid to say the least. And that is just one TE. They need to replenish the position with 2-3 guys if they ever want to run a 2 TE set. I would add Texas to Tex’s list of states where Pitt has some recruiting inroads.

I was actually going to write an article about this, but i just don’t have the time. It’s like they are banging their heads against a brick wall. All that guy wants to do is catch passes. If they are going to keep this scheme then they need to stop kidding themselves and stop wasting resources on TE’s that want to catch the ball.

What TE DOESN’T want to catch the ball? Of course, they also need to be able to block, but receivers like to catch passes. If we don’t want to throw to our TE’s, then just recruit another Tackle and call it a day.

It will be interesting to see which offensive linemen step up next year. Is there information on number of snaps that each player, particularly the backups, got in 2018? I wonder how many total OL played during the year and how many snaps they played.

The competition at RB will be fun to watch. And by “watch” I don’t actually mean watch because practices are held behind the Nard Curtain…

Good to see that our incoming qb got the nod for a 4 star. He looks good on film. I am really glad that U of South Carolina seems to be keeping their own 4 star and Clempson go themselves a 4 or 5 star. My thoughts are a little different then bigB regarding numbers. I think it is imperative to bring in 4-5 4 stars each year if you want to make a move to the next level.

Bring in 4 of them consistently and lighten the schedule and poof 9 wins will be achievable more often. The problem at Pitt has been that a lot of our 4 stars, don’t stay in the program for one reason or another. That is why I think it is important to bring in 4-5 of them each year. One or two only, puts you perilously close to having zero 4 stars after 3-4 years on campus.

I really hope that coach Johnson can get his son to matriculate as well for 2020. Maybe our 4 star qb can stay in the kids ear and tell him that he needs protected! OSU has had some defectors this last week due to uncertainty. OSU manipulated the system, which has gone under-reported with respect to the timing of Urbans departure. Had the announced departure come after the early LOI day, the athletes would have been permitted to de-commit without penalty. They manipulated the timing in order to lessen that risk. Brilliant, but manipulative.

Huff III, that makes a lot of sense and I totally agree…I didn’t want to feel greedy-would like to see 4 or 5 also, The sooner the better…..

Big question..is Watson a QB guru……shame Duzz/POVert nation and Chaney did’t hit it off as Chaney seems to be doing well in his current situation knowing he has a lot more functional 4-5 star pieces of the puzzle at Georgia,,,

I think we have to reserve judgement on Pickett / Watson and the passing game until after next year. Just my opinion, but not every RS frosh is going to be Johnny Manziel. I agree though, Chaney was good and clearly he is going good things at UGA. Funny story though, if you remember he made some questionable play calls and seemed to rely too heavily on the pass in his 1 season at Pitt. Apparently he did the same thing his first season UGA until Sony Michelle and Nick Chubb called a come to jesus with him during the offseason, and told him he needs to run the ball more . (this was all over the radio down here). He listened and the rest is history.

Agreed about the questionable play calls while at Pitt. Not surprised he needed a such a meeting to change.The addition of D’Andre Swift out of St. Joe’s Prep certainly helped the Bulldogs running game.

Vincent Davis our other RB recruit out of Fla. bumped to a 5.7. 5.8 is considered 4 star by the way. Narduzzi’s recruiting class is better as the days go by.—PCN network now telecasting the 1st game in the PA states playoffs.

I have always looked at recruiting like a box of chocolates. 4s are great but so are 3s and even 2s because you cannot project the growth and desire of kids. Thanks to them all who want to come to Pitt.

so are you suggesting Pitt not target 4 stars and try their luck with walk-ons and transfers?
Every school has hits and misses with 4 stars but a much higher percentage of 4 stars can impact the game as opposed to 2 and 3 stars
I think Pitt has missed on a higher percentage of 4 stars than most schools however
and theres always at least 1 walk on story per school
I dont know why Narduzzi finds it so difficult to land those 4 stars other than he’s a poor closer

i’d rather load up on 4 stars than 3 stars
theres a reason why the most successful teams are very often the ones with the most stars
few if any schools succeed by coaching up players and those that do (MI St and TCU) have excellent head coaches
It just shouldnt be this hard for Pitt to land elites

It will be interesting to see how Narduzzi addresses the OL this off season. That will tell us a lot about the future prospects for Pitt. Clearly everyone knows this is a dreadful situation currently, and something must be done to shore it up before next year.

Can we all agree that everyone in the PITT football fan universe wants PITT to receive 22 verbals from 5* players? Can we also agree that everyone in the PITT football fan universe wants our football team to go undefeated and win the NCAA National Championship every year until the day we all die? Can we all agree that this isn’t going to happen? . ….and lastly, can we all agree that Narduzzi is doing his best to make the above impossibilities a reality but will ultimately come up short in those ridiculous scenario’s considering where he coaches football?

Speaking of star ratings, there was a debate in this space last year about the quality of recruits and I decided to do some follow-up research.

Some folks were trying to make the point the a number of Narduzzi 3 star recruits had scores of 5.7, which is really close to the 5.8 score one needs to get a four. In other words, “yes, they are three star recruits, but they are almost at four star – only a tenth of a score point off.”

Some folks suggested that one could not look at the Rivals scores and draw that conclusion, because there was actually a big difference between a 5.7 and 5.8. I filed that one away because it didn’t smell right, even if the person making the comment has cred.

Today I asked Chris Peak at Panther Lair about that and he basically said there really wasn’t much difference in the two scores and the only difference was the higher pushed one to a higher star level. I also asked him who was determining the scores and he indicated there is a national team of analysts within Rivals and they divvy up the regions around the country, set the scores and then get together a few times a year to discuss the scores – who should move up, down, etc. Chris himself is not a national analyst with Rivals, but as a site publisher will provide his own two cents to the team for their discussions. He will tend to focus on WPIAL kids or Pitt recruits.

What does the above mean? Well, for one thing a kid scoring a 5.7 is close to a kid scoring a 5.8 – despite what some here have argued. So, if one wants to evaluate a class of recruits vs another school or a prior recruiting year, its probably better to use the average score of the recruits INSTEAD OF the stars for a more fine-tuned approach.

Based on the fees one pays to subscribe to Rivals, its hard to imagine that the national team of analysts are able to do great homework on each and every kid out there. I’m guessing that is a group that is stretched thin and its more likely than not that they rarely see enough of the kids in their region to make an excellent assessment on each and every one of them.

So, you will forgive me if I refuse to get too wound up by the number of four star players in a given recruiting class.

Thank you JoeL, exactly how I feel about recruiting evaluations and then to take it a little further… we are talking about 18 year old young men who many haven’t developed completely. It’s not the science some make it out to be. ike

ike – but there is science…and some art
A much, much smaller percentage of 2/3 stars make the pros than 4 and 5’s
Thats a big difference…stars matter
Rivals is a multi million dollar business…they are the experts and their analysis is highly correlated with a players success in college and the pros. Thats why its a multi million business.

although I would much rather have a 5.7 rated 3 than a 5.4
last years class had 8 5.7’s
this year’s is only 3 last I checked
But this years has 1 more 4…still 3 short of where Pitt needs to be

you seem to be in denial about Pitt’s recruiting
It is solid like 4 other mediocre teams in our division
Its behind 2 schools significantly year after year (Tech and Miami)
If Pitt wants to reach 10 wins, it must recruit better
That is an undeniable fact

Unless you believe that Narduzzi can coach up 2 and 3 stars and he hasnt yet in his 4 years

he got lucky winning this year in a very weak division
every acc game broke Pitt’s way except for NC (which was an inexcusable loss)
narduzzi wont scratch 10 wins given his recruiting

if Pitt wants to win, they need to find a QB
they then need to have a line that protects that QB
The QB and O-line are your most important pieces
Pitt doesnt have a QB and their line is 80% gone next year
Pitt’s D alone wont win them games

I don’t think that anyone on this site believes the rating number assigned by Rivals is rock solid or cast in stone, or that a 4 star rating guarantees success. I do believe, however, that most feel the higher the number the better. That said, it stands to reason that the better programs are getting more 4-5 stars. I would like to see a correlation of final team rankings along with the quality of recruiting classes over the past 5 years. I’ll bet there is a strong correlation between team and recruiting rankings.

its not ike – thats how the rest of American thinks
they think it was a joke for a 7-5 team in a very weak division to go up against Clemson
maybe thats one of the reasons why it was poorly rated on TV
maybe thats why national media knows the championship game was a joke because Pitt played in it and justified the joke by being blown out
Pitt was the best of a very mediocre bunch
thats not saying much

how successful will this season be if Pitt loses its last 3 games?

and this SC QB who is a 4 star hasnt played a game in college yet. I’d love for him to be the next Marino but he’s destined to fail if Watson is still coaching.

Ike, I’m getting a bit worried about you. You must have replaced your glasses with some rose colored ones. You are going a bit beyond mere logic and moving into the sycophant range when you continue to base all arguments on this unexpected Coastal title. On the merits this team was rated I think 5th in the division, correct? But it is more accurate to say that the division underperformed rather than Pitt was better than expected. When you start getting overly exuberant think about the Miami and Clemson games as your measuring stick.

Tx Panther, with only 1 ten win season in 37 years, I must question your conclusion that Pitt just needs the right coach. The have had 9 HCs in that time period (and that doesn’t include Haywood and the interims). I think its much more the program and all that surround it.

Clemson, Michigan State and TCU won very little until they hired the right coach. And now they are programs that win 10 games each year pretty much. If it can be done at these schools, it can be done at Pitt.

Clemson was an underachiever before Dabo
TCU was nothing before Paterson and they didnt renovate their stadium until just a few years ago (Patterson has been around for 18 years); elite talent still doesnt go to TCU
And Michigan St is the best example for Pitt…they are little brother in the state, their fans are fickle, they dont get alot of 4 stars. But once they got their coach, they started winning 10 games
Coaches do matter

So Tx.. who should have played Clemson in the ACC Championship??? Are you suggesting Miami who finished 2nd jump over PITT based on their beating our team on the field….We were the Coastal champs at 7-5…. that’s the way the cookie crumbled and expect a similar year in the Coastal division next year .. anyone can beat anyone else on any given gameday in our division… I don’t see that changing in the next 2-3 years…

I’m suggesting that Pitt should have made a game of it. In the end, nobody from that awful division was worthy enough. Previous division winners (everyone except VA now) all had at least 9 wins going into the conference game. Again, Pitt was the best of a very mediocre bunch and the game proved this conference game was a joke.

Last ACC Coastal Champ was crowned in 2018..whether they were 9 or 7 wins Coastal teams they all lost… joke or no joke the game will happen again next year….I think I get where you are coming from- we all want a champion who dominated and we aren’t there. Heck about 4 games into the season one could make that conclusion but we had a nice rebound and run .. won a division title (obviously, the way it happened is “ not worth” for some) and some great fun, tailgates and memories surrounded this group… appreciated by some/ not so much by others….I was hoping we would beat Miami and play Clemson tough…Didn’t happen…we have a ways to go… losses that really bite -the 3 under Sherrill to Fla St, ND and PSU… kept us from 3 perfect seasons…. Saturday’s game will be long forgotten…. onto El noPasso

—Pitt was 6-2 in the Coastal, which is pretty damn good for such a flawed team.

—I’m convinced that Pitt struggles to recruit 4-stars because the atmosphere at Heinz is not going to “wow” any players in for a visit, and because we have so few elite local recruits now…

—That said, the inability to bring in a TE who can catch passes is ridiculous. And yeah, Coach Salem seemed totally out-of-touch when he visited TE recruit Koontz the other day. Very troubling.

—I don’t think we’re as bad off on next year’s OL as most on here. Hargrove, Kradel and Rainey are decent guard candidates. Houy at one tackle and a bunch of guys fighting for the other tackle spot and to provide depth. Those guys include Chase Brown, Ford, Zubovic, Warren, and Carter — the latter three were highly regarded recruits. Drexel backs up Morrissey at center.

Plus we probably look for a grad transfer OT, since that is the toughest position to fill.

I’ll chime in with my own pleasure in Pitt winning the Coastal. That was very unexpected for quite awhile and says some positive things about the coach keeping the team together during the difficult start to the season.

However, there is just too much other data this year to suggest that Pitt is on the rise. They need to do something, anything, different to be competitive in all games. I’d like that to be better recruiting as TX suggests. I wouldn’t mind a better offensive scheme with some imagination for different opponents. And by the way, there are very few good defenses in college so it’s all about scoring. I’ll also agreed with the easier OOC schedule crowd, but eventually you’ll probably still go up against a good bowl game opponent.

No coach coming to Pitt is going to fill Heinz Field. Thus any coach coming to Pitt will have the same difficulty in recruiting 4 and 5 stars until the atmosphere at home games more resembles that of the home games at PSU, OSU and Alabama, And that ain’t going to happen anytime soon if ever. Thus any head coach at Pitt will have to recruit players for the most part that were underrated in the Star System. If you can’t figure that out as of yet Tx than there is nothing anyone here can say or post that will convince you otherwise.

kids pick a school based on more than just atmosphere at a stadium
and for many kids, playing in a pro stadium and practicing at Steeler facilities is a positive
coaching is even more important a a school like Pitt
I’m not expecting Pitt to recruit 15-20 4-5 stars each year
But recruiting 4-5 four stars each year is very attainable
No reason why Pitt has to reach for 2 stars or transfers if their recruiting is adequate and the coaches know how to develop and use talent…they obviously do not.

as I have been saying for years …. this is the type of recruit that Pitt must go after. A 3 star that has much potential and could really develop into a star. The fact that he really developed in his senior year proves it.

Yes Pitt may not be able to keep him but at least they have a chance. If they didn’t go after him when they did, they wouldn’t likely had a snowballs chance

Mike – very well informed article. The charts were easy to read and paint a clear picture.

Regarding the fullback position – Jim Medure has been listed as George’s backup in the last half of the season, even though he wears #81. He is probably listed under the TE category on your charts. Jimmy follows the model of George – walk-on LB who earned a scholarship. George earned his a year or two earlier than Jimmy. George will be missed for more reasons than FB – wish him well in all that he does – he has great parents and is a well rounded young man.

Speaking to the OLine concerns, yes we need a few more and preferably 4* recruits or developed JR’s or SR’s from other programs. Much lyke the QB (not really a comment), Moose and his Pitt staff whiffed in their last two recruiting classes for Olineman. Thus the roster will have zero SR’s unless Duzz and Borbely snag a grad transfer or two. I’m not sure if one of the 20 Dlineman could switch to the O side – 20 seems high, but Moose was very light in the DL recruiting as well at Pitt.

Just using the law of averages, Pitt should be able to land three 4 stars each year since 4 stars comprise roughly 12% of all recruits rated by Rivals. 1 in 4 four stars become All-Americans, a much higher percentage than 3 stars.

All Pitt needs is to land 4-5 of these four stars each year. The goal should be to have 2-3 impact players on each side of the ball. The QB being the most important on Offense and probably a pass rusher or shut down corner on D.

There is plenty of elite talent where Pitt recruits. Penn State and Ohio State cant recruit every 4 star out there.

Pitt just needs to do a better job.

Pitt makes things too difficult on themselves.
Find an identity on both sides of the ball and develop a scheme for it (example: spread offense, turnover focused/aggressive D in a 3-4)
Find the assistants that have experience with these schemes
Find recruits that would excel in these schemes (2-3 elites on each side knowing that QB is critical)
Schedule patsies for OOC
Win some bowl games and get ranked in the final standings

because they dont have a plan to get there
and havent found the right coach

Its inexcusable for Pitt to be grouped in with schools like Kansas, Rutgers, and Vandy
But the BoT and AD are fine with mediocrity and 6-8 win seasons so there is no incentive to reach 10 and be ranked at years end

No accountability to obtain excellence

I’m saying its not difficult to get there as proven with other schools who never had sustained success but now do like Michigan St and TCU…when they found the right coach and the school supported the goal

But again the administration has to view it as important
Pitt obviously doesnt after extending Narduzzi after a 5 win season and barely breaking even on the football program
Pitt is fine with 7 wins and a bowl each year
Pitt can do better but doesnt want to
might go back to that academics vs athletics debate
every time Pitt football got close to becoming a national player, the administration stepped in and put on the brakes

I think Pitt’s administration is scared to death of what they think must be sacrificed to reach 10-11 win seasons
You can reach that level without cheating or scandal or sacrificing your mission statement

that makes no sense since you need 3 and 4’s to build a team and it also depends on positions of need
the vast bulk of your roster is 3’s since theres only 12% of 4’s out there
no reason why Pitt cant get 4-5 fours each year like Wanny did
and find some 3’s to fill in the rest…and I’d prefer a 5.7 rated three over a 5.4 of course
you also need to look at a kids offers
Narduzzi has far too many 3 stars with no other P-5 offer except Pitt
You think Pitt is good at finding diamonds in the rough that are being recruited by Holy Cross?

You won’t win ten games often when you schedule and recruit like Pitt. But I think a softer OOC and a few more elite players on each side of the ball makes it possible.

I am as happy as anyone that we won the coastal, but 8 yds passing is absurd. You can’t tell me recruiting is good enough when Morrisey is the only O-lineman recruited by Narduzzi that is playing. Then when he goes down our O-line totally fails. Granted against two superb D-lines, but absolute futility.

So next year our line will be made of all Narduzzi recruits. There will be little experience, I see very little chance that they will be better than this year. Which makes me think it will be another 7-8 win season.

I don’t see our trend line going up, other than a coastal title which is great, but overall we seem to be flat lined.

Narduzzi is the opposite of Chryst, largely because of recruiting, Chryst put together a decent offense and Narduzzi has put together a decent defense. It is like we can only get half a coach at a time.

While for Pitt that is quite an accomplishment, we won’t know till next year whether it was the start of a trend or just a nice anomaly. We played a lot of bowl teams and we will also see how they do in the bowls.
But against really good teams one average team and a very bad team, we were just plain awful, other than Notre Dame, where we put up a good fight. The bottom line is we still are a 7 win team, with a chance for 8. If you look at the past few years, 7,7,8,8,5, 7 or 8, that is a pretty flat-line.

Those OOC future games still do not show 3 cupcake games that we need to get to 10 wins each year. Almost all other major schools have 3 cupcakes. Otherwise we will always be at 6, 7 or maybe 8 or 9 wins. H2P

Do we now all consider 3 stars Blue Chip? Because if that’s the case then Brandon Mack is a blue chip recruit. And if that’s the case then I guess we can consider almost Narduzzi’s entire recruiting class this year is made up of Blue Chips.

look at a recruits offers from other P-5 schools (red flag if Pitt is his only P-5 offer)
look at his rating – is he a low or high star 3 (little difference between a 5.7 and 5.8 rated recruit…the line between a 3 and 4 star)
look at the school and program he’s from – is it 5a or 1a, what was the level of competition, do they have a record of sending kids to P-5 schools, did he gradually improve from soph to senior year
this mack kid appears to be a very good 3 star who probably has a high ceiling and potential to be a playmaker as opposed to just a solid contributor

i know hes gotten other P-5 offers
thats what makes him blue chip in my mind
Its not like he was like every other 3 star recruit this year where his only P-5 offer was Pitt
Pitt is not going up against Holy Cross and Elon and Bowling Green for this Mack kid
Thats a good thing
Problem is – Narduzzi cant close on the good ones

Rivals only gives a grade of 4 or 5 star to about 13% of all high school players
There are more 2 and 3 stars in the pros because 85% of kids are graded as such
However, a much higher percentage of 4 and 5 star kids are named All American and make it to the pros

The numbers I previously posted via the link says around 5-10% of 2 and 3 stars make it big
But there are literally thousands of them out there
Only a few hundred 4 and 5’s (but around 30% make All American)

In the recruiting wars, a major underappreciated aspect is the opinion and encouragement of the parents. Most parents who have gone through this process will tell you that they were mostly interested in three things: the quality of the school, the proximity of the school so they could see their son or daughter play, and the care of the coaching staff that will be around them for 4-5 years. Parents know that only a small percentage of athletes ever play professionally.

I can’t ever remember an athlete’s parents saying the capacity or attendance of the stadium was a significant factor. Pitt has a great academic environment and is well situated with 30% of the country’s population located within 600 miles. So the major variable is whether or not they feel comfortable with their son or daughter playing for Narduzzi and his staff. Narduzzi can’t seem to close on highly rated players, so the jury is still out on this important part of recruiting.

Here’s the problem with respect to what a recruit’s parents look for — we have many “quality” schools around us. And those schools have the more full stadiums.

What I think some are missing is that every school has much to offer, every school has coaches who will try their best to make the recruit feel like part of the “family.”

So a kid has offers from Pitt and 10 other schools. How does he narrow down his list? All the schools have significant positives, so he has to look at the negatives. Maybe he didn’t hit it off great with a coach or two — gets rid of those schools. Now what? Maybe go with the schools we’re the games are a really big event – star athletes like a big stage. So the kid scratches Pitt off his top 3 list.

Unfortunately, coming in second, third or fourth gets you squat in recruiting…

thats where branding comes in
and again theres plenty of good recruits to go around
the OSU’s of this world can only recruit 20-25 players each year
they dont have a monopoly on 4 stars
Narduzzi just doesnt know how to close

@VoR- I would agree with the parents list of importancies. Unfortunately, that does not typically align with the list of the 4 and 5 star talent list of importancies. If it was about the education/school, the Ivy’s would have powerhouses. If the parents were making the choices for the kids, the Ivy’s would be tops in football and basketball. Period.

However, that is not the case. It was back in the day. Now, the athlete is the main decider. Ask Robert Foster’s parents and countless others? In addition, alot of 4 and 5 star talent comes from broken homes. That is often the sad reality. In those situations, there are handlers, aau coaches, high school coaches, girlfriends, teammates, and aunts and uncles and such that try to influence their athletes decision. But at the end of the day, the kids make the choices, primarily.

How a parent sees things and how a 17 year old sees things is completely different most of the time.

Bringing it home, tell me what you hear when a Pitt recruit talks about the gameday experience in front of 35k fans versus the same recruits experience in front of 85k fans elsewhere. It’s important to the kid. Experiences are more important today then they were 30 years ago.

If an athlete thought proximity was important, we would never get a kid from florida. The florida teams would be the best, period. Proximity is usually a factor for a non-revenue producing athletes decision. Also, the elites typically go to the best campus, regardless of location. There are plenty of real good places of higher education between miami florida and Pitt.

With regard to a coach promising to take care of a son or daughter, the speech/sell is the same. Parents don’r really get to know the coaches, nor do the kids during the recruiting periods. They are salespeople, just like the person who sold you your last car.

Although as parents, I would sight the same reasons for me as to what is important, the vast majority of football players and their families probably just don’t see it the same way. Other sports, sure. Not major bball or football.

and a urban campus isnt for everyone. Jackie and Foge both said that. So they must have come across that hurdle during their recruiting back in the 80’s. But I think if anything, Pitt’s campus and Oakland is more vibrant and fun than any other time. I always thought of an urban environment as a plus but I’m in the minority probably.

Girls and guys at this time of the year I think we have a lot to be thankful for most on here thought that we would win from 2 to 5 games we made 7 who other than our coach that’s right our coach thought that we could win the coastal not many. I may be wrong but I think Reed my have written winning the coastal was more important than any of the other games. Count me in as one of the folks who thinks playing psu or that school in morganhole is not important it’s not they bring nothing to the table for us we only help them with recruiting. Let’s not be so hard on our boys after sitting in the rain in our game the other night I stayed till the end I was still proud to be a Pittsburgh fan I want to thank are new commander whom I met briefly on Saturday keep up the good fight. With folks like Ike Fran and BigB the sky is is the limit on what great times we can have also thanks to great people who showed up in Charlotte hopefully you had a great time. One last thing this week was the only time when I was growing up I could say go Army f@@k navy.

There are many reasons a kid chooses a school, and they don’t apply equally to each kid.
As Huff mentions it is a sales process for the coach. They have to get in the kids head, determine what his thinking is and convince him that Pitt is the best place for him.

Obviously Pitt has many more obstacles to overcome than many others. The fact that Pitt doesn’t have much of regional recruiting territory does hurt the most, but if WV can have success, so should Pitt.

As in any sales job, first you pick the low hanging fruit and get the kids that are capable and want to go to your school, local kids, legacy kids etc. The next part is tough, convincing kids with lots of options, that you are their best option.

The biggest problem for Pitt is using the data to identify quality players that they have a chance of getting and not wasting time on Blue chips that absolutely, positively are not going to come to Pitt. Hopefully Narduzzi is learning from his early failures. As a salesman, there is a finite amount of time, and a finite number of positions to be filled. The goal is to fill them with the best possible group that you can get to come.

It is an art and a science, which also involves a lot skill and luck after the fact. Just like the rating services the coaches are trying to predict potential outcomes and no one has a crystal ball. If they did, Aaron Donald would have been at Alabama or Ohio State. But then who knows, he wouldn’t have started for four years and possibly wouldn’t have achieved his full potential.

In the end it comes down to do they believe in the coaching staff and will they be given a chance to compete and will they treated fairly.

Fantasy question, if Larry Fitzgerald or Tyler Boyd were freshmen on this year’s team, would KP have been a better QB?

Quick story on the Army Navy game growing up in my house Pitt was first but Army was always loved my dad who was an Army ww2 vet and my uncles my moms 3 brothers who were Navy Seabes and then longshoreman working the docks in Long Beach army navy week was always fun lots of pranks one year my pops woke my 3 older brothers and me up at 3am we left my other younger siblings and my mom sleeping I’m one of 10 went to my Uncle Tom’s house and burnt an large A into his grass he loved his lawn spent lots of time working on it looking back now it’s probably not as funny as was then I think I only saw my uncle cry twice in his life that day and the day my cousin was killed in Vietnam but that’s another story changed my whole family’s life.

Longtime reader, first post. But I’ve had the pleasure of meeting many of you at Fran’s tailgates. The recruiting issue is a great topic that has puzzled me for years. My take:

First, I’m a Pitt grad and longtime football and basketball season ticket holder. That said, I am absolutely certain that the Pitt administration, coaches, and players all want Pitt to win more than I do. I’m just a fan. They are staking their livelihoods on winning games.

Coach Narduzzi is not passing on blue chippers so that he can experience the challenge of finding diamonds in the rough and coaching up average players into superstars. He wants to recruit the 4 and 5 star studs but other than the occasional local kid wanting to stay home, I have no idea how you do that. Some say telling a kid he can be the big fish is a small pond should work. Well there are 100 D1 average football programs in the same situation telling those same blue chippers the same story. Pointing to Marino and Dorsett as part of our history is probably irrelevant to a 17 year old. You might as well mention Jock Sutherland and Marshall Goldberg while you are at it.

You’ll never convince me that bringing a blue chip recruit into a half empty stadium is not a major negative. I see our recruiting problem being at least 90% our fans. Our attendance and financial support is atrocious.
As I sat in an empty Pete watching our team lose to Niagara Monday night, I kept thinking we don’t deserve this coach. Coach Capel may yet succeed, but we fans are not helping one bit.

I believe our best chance is slow methodical improvement. Just as you can get into a death spiral, I think small improvement will get you a few better recruits. Those better recruits will get you a little more improvement. And on and on. Occasional setbacks due to a bad break, a key injury, a fluke loss should be expected. But if any school should have learned the folly of chasing away a good coach to hire someone to “take us to the next level”, it should be Pitt.

I’m very happy with having won the Coastal Division. I hope we can do it again. That’s what moves us into the conversation with the better (not necessarily blue chip yet) recruits.

As MM points out above (great writeup by the way), our current recruiting class is ranked 32nd. Out of the 120 D1 football programs, I think there are about 20 who routinely finish ranked in the top 25 slots. Those are the Alabama’s, Ohio State’s, USC’s, Notre Dame’s, LSU’s, Florida’s, Georgia’s of the world. That leaves the other 100 “average” teams to fight over the remaining recruits. Being ranked 32nd puts us up near the top of those 100 programs. To me, that’s a great start!

Great post farmers high many on here think the same unconditional fan support is what is needed I’m sure that there are lots of fans who like me never went to Pitt but still are season ticket holders who love the teams at Pitt and support them fully htp hey brother Ike am I posting to much

40k in a 68k stadium with yellow seats looks bad
but 40k is really very good fan support for the product that Pitt has placed on the field in the past decade
40k looks far better in a 50k stadium…on campus

the B-ball game was an anomaly. It was a early week game during Finals against a crap opponent.

Farmers High, excellent post. 6 likes on a first post might be a record (doubt we track that kind of data…haha)
I’m trying to figure out who you are if you have attended tailgates. Any clues or should I know?

This is going to hit really close to home for the parents scammed by recruiting services in the past. Unregulated means that NO ONE is looking out for the parents and kids and these companies can do whatever they want.https://t.co/d8BK7Ed3NVpic.twitter.com/M9IZPdSJHo

Just pulled this quote from a pitt fb recruit coming for his visit this weekend. It is as follows:

“My mom has always told me that this will be my decision,” said Mahogany. “She said she’ll have an opinion but isn’t going to push me one way or the other and to a school that I don’t want to. She’s never been to Pitt so it should be a good time.”

I believe this is more typical than not in the recruiting game. It’s a plus to have the parents in your corner but at the end of the day, the kids typically decide. What the kids want is to be a part of something special and that is what you sell them. You don’t sell them the tough schedule you play. You sell them on the W-L record with 3 creampuffs. They don’t care about creampuffs at all. They care about winning, period. Narduzzi should be able to sell any kid that we won 9 games without you. Imagine if you would join with us. We could easily get to 10 or 11 wins. Who’s with me!!

Dairy High – that’s a good one. I have been calling them the Dairy school since we started on POV. My Dairy friends HATE it when I refer to them that way. It’s a truth that hurts. When yu stay with the truth, the dairy cult gets bent out of shape very quickly. Pure Joy!!

Hey Huff, you are of course right that parents don’t usually make the final decision on what scholarship to accept. Remember also that these highly rated recruits all think they can play in the NFL. So many of the top players will listen to parents but go where they think they will get the best completion and exposure. Other good players will consider the parents’ wishes more. But clearly good closing skills are needed to sign the 4-5 stars.

I have a couple of questions for the board. How does Narduzzi close on a 4 or 5 talented wide receiver with Pitt’s dismal passing game from this season? IMO it certainly was much easier for Narduzzi to lock up our 4 star and almost 4 star RB’s this season after the rushing numbers coming from Ollison and Hall don’t you think?

a 4-star WR may be unlikely but with the present WRs of Ffrench, Tipton, Mathews, Carter, Jacques-Louis and Mack, hopefully the passing game can improve to attract some next year. Note that Carter, Jacques-Louis and Carter are freshmen and Mack is a soph. They also can move Paris Ford

On the other hand, the only way to go is up for the passing game. Good WRs are needed to be a part of that. Maybe a good selling point to get Pitt to the next level. And maybe throw in some good pass catching TEs as well?

I would think that Duzz would have personally attended the Penn Hills- Mannheim Steamroller game…the PR of PITTs presence could only help.. and let him see other up and comers- then hop on his private jet and hit the recruiting trail…. seems like
we are always behind the 8 ball when recruiting local talent who get
Multiple P5 offers

I guess Pitt hasn’t offered Hardy because he is 5’10” 150 lbs. but if you see his highlights from last night, you know he is a player. Michigan St, Nebraska and 6 others think enough of him to offer. When a guy scores 4 TD’s, three different ways in a championship game his stock will go up.

The funny thing about the state finals yesterday is while Hardy, a 2-star, really impressed …. the best prospect from Hershey yesterday contributed very little.

Julian Fleming, a junior WR from Southern Columbia, is the best prospect in the state hardly contributed at all in his school’s 2A title win over Wilmington. He is a 4-star Rivals and 5-star in other services, and thought to be the best WR prospect in the nation next year.

And yes, Pitt doesn’t have a snowball’s chance. Not only does he live about an hour or so east of State College, he has already been offered by Clemson, Georgia and Bama … to name a few

Pitt needs to let the local kids know that if they are good enough they are a priority at Pitt. It is important for them to know that their home town team wants them more than anyone else. Wanny got this and wanted to put a fence around the WPIAL. This is how you build loyalty for the home town team, how you get the media on your side. You tell the kids that their friends and family will be able to see all their home games, it helps to build up a local fan base. It also gives you a better chance to get those local stars when they happen. Uou will never get them all, but what would have Lavar Arrington, Terrelle Pryor or Sean Lee done for Pitt?

Boyd was surrounded by Clairton players at Pitt, most didn’t contribute much but Boyd certainly did.

If you want to put more butts in seats at Heinz, you need to change the attitude toward Pitt and local stars will help.

By the way, Fralic paid for the Penn Hills trip to the State Championship, and Terry Smith gave them Penn States facilities to practice on, while they were there. Smiths nephew Tank Smith is the star running back for Penn Hills. He and his boss get the value of the WPIAL.

Penn Hills and Gateway have strong coaches right now, they are going to put out some good kids