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is your read on the word tenets as text. If you still have concern over usage and meaning I will be glad to discuss this in an affable manner via PM.

B) I think I am being perfectly affable. And I'm not intested in saying anything beyond the affable things I have said here, thanks.

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Let's move forward with positive contributions to the thread, and this forum,

C) I believe my contributions (both to the thread and the forum) are positive. I hear that you disagree, but I disagree with your assessment. Just like you had the right to make your comments on the overall topic, I have the right to make my assessment on your comments. If you don't feel my comments are positive, you do have the right to ignore them (it seems that you are ignoring them in any case, which is fine).

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...and such contributions that concern themselves with the topic as well. And we should keep our personal issues and such privately, and done thru PM.

Post thought, I also didn't capitlize bible. This may also have been over looked.

D) I have no personal issues, and I believe this discussion is part and parcel of the topic.

Best Wishes for the New Year,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)

Hey, Buck, maybe he was from Planet Unicorn! Since we're just making stuff up now let's have a respectful discussion about that possibility too!

I am not here to tell you what to believe, or to think. The thread has come to an end. I was making post comments on the thread, and how I felt it would have been a better thread. I don't think it really needed to be anything more than a handful of posts on 1 page. If I were a person looking for accurate information to determine if O'Sensei was or wasn't a priest, it might be best to read the qualified responses. Maybe Jun will lift those posts from the thread and put them in a closed thread for the purpose of archiving it for future reference. As I said it is rare to have the input of more than one qualified individual on a topic. I'd be nice not to have to hunt through a numberous paged thread where qualified information is hard to get at it. I want to say those who are qualified on this topic who spoke don't speak often. Sometimes it is best just to let them speak, and listen to what they say. I don't find any fault in that.

Now the question is did O'Sensei think of himself as a priest. If so or if not than what is the impact of that on Aikido and Aikidoka.

If he was a Kami does that dwarf the position or importance of being a priest?

What is the importance of the any of it? That is outside the importance of being on the record a fact he wasn't and not a reasonable misconception he was.

Mr Burgess,

The facts surrounding Ueshiba's life make it pretty obvious that he did not see himself as a priest.

In Shinto a human can can only become a kami after death. Alternately, you can only be a Shinto priest while you are alive. Consequently, asking if one dwarfs the other demonstrates rather incongruous thinking as the two identities are separated by our mortal coil.

The facts surrounding Ueshiba's life make it pretty obvious that he did not see himself as a priest.

In Shinto a human can can only become a kami after death. Alternately, you can only be a Shinto priest while you are alive. Consequently, asking if one dwarfs the other demonstrates rather incongruous thinking as the two identities are separated by our mortal coil.

I have no idea what your third point/question was ????

Happy New Year to all

Toby Threadgill / TSYR

I would like to comment on what you said, not to refute it. Not to agree. It is not my wish to debate the thoughts That arose from this thread of mine.

"Every rock, animal, spring, emotion, quality and even person has a kami associated with it. The spirits of the dead are kami." Kami no michi is so confusing. It gets so complicated when butted up against western thought.

He may not have seen himself as a priest but maybe others did and considered him such and treated him as such. That does effect the facts of his life. That is the real issue I was getting at. I am told may think that O'Sesnei considered himself a god. If this is true it complicates the issue.

If you say it enough and long enough people take it as fact. It is very clear to me that it isn't unreasonable for people unlike yourself that don't have the opportunity to access factual information, to make a flattering assumption he was a priest. I am sure he could have easily become one. Not that damaging of misinformation in the sea of misinformation surrounding Aikido and O'Sensei.

I understand the need to correct the record. But that is going to be an endless battle.

What is important here, O'Sensei was very much into Kami no michi. If he was a priest or not, his is considered kami. How important is that to this day and age for people in Aikido to think of him as a priest, there is worse misinformation out there than that. He was really into kami no michi that is pretty well know. That is what is important here. BTW, O'Sensei has done more to promote Kami no michi than anyone one person outside Japan through Aikido- that needs to be looked at closely.

Focusing on the essence, the meaning, the context is a solution to the sea of misinformation and misconception of O'Sensei that will never be corrected. Was he or wasn't a priest is not as important as the fact he is considered Kami. That he was really into Kami no michi. It is the essence sometimes that is the most important.

If you say it enough and long enough people take it as fact. It is very clear to me that it isn't unreasonable for people unlike yourself that don't have the opportunity to access factual information, to make a flattering assumption he was a priest. I am sure he could have easily become one. Not that damaging of misinformation in the sea of misinformation surrounding Aikido and O'Sensei.

Mr Burgess,

I don't mean to be pedantic, but do people have trouble understanding you? First you write "Kami no Michi" instead of simply saying "Shinto". ( What logical reason can justify using the alternate pronunciation? ) Next, you tap out a paragraph that has so many double negatives strung together that I can't follow what the heck you're tying to say.

"It is very clear to me that it isn't unreasonable for people unlike yourself that don't have the opportunity..."

Are you kidding? You come here and critique other peoples participation in this thread, then you write the above in all seriousness? Unless you are a comic genius and this was all done in jest, I'd have to conclude you have a life scattered with tragic failures of communication.

I'm no wordsmith but If you feel the compulsion to comment on other peoples posts then you must present your thoughts and comments in a manner that is both grammatically concise and logical. That way people will have a clue what you're talking about.

As an Aikidoka, I am not afforded opportunities to have contact or aquire finite and accurate details in the specialized areas of Aikido.

I say this because for one it is easy for the common or average "Joe" Aikidoka who is not well versed in the ways of kami no michi to think of O'Sensei as a priest. It is a reasonable assumption, though it may be incorrect.

I may have over done it here. Sometimes communication is best by example, to model things. This isn't always understood well by some. I realize I don't spoon-feed my thoughts out, and place a great onus on those who read them. I understand the difficulty for some as I don't spoon-feed, make assumptions, and short-hand my thoughts with the assumption the reader has a well versed background on the topic. I also try new conventions out and stuff that are not expected by many conventional readers in my written communication. I realize this is an issue for some, but more than others. I apologize if you have issue, and hope in the future, over time, you will come accustom to my style and be less irritated. Very much in the same way one gets accustom to language and accents. And I will admit in this situation I may have been using too much accent.

I realize I don't spoon-feed my thoughts out, and place a great onus on those who read them. I understand the difficulty for some as I don't spoon-feed, make assumptions, and short-hand my thoughts with the assumption the reader has a well versed background on the topic.

Having a coherent sentence is a basic requirement for communication and is *not* spoon-feeding. There are generally *two* possibilities when no one understands or agrees with what you are saying. One is that what you've written is so complex that it is beyond the reach of the readers' intellects. The other, of course, is that what you write is simply nonsensical, incoherent of flat out wrong.

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It is very clear to me that it isn't unreasonable for people unlike yourself that don't have the opportunity...

I had a teacher in high school who loved to diagram sentences. I think that sentence would have made her head explode.

WHAT...LOL? Guijing? This just get funnier! It's like a train wreck with words instead of rail cars. Where do you get this stuff? Do you just pull it out of thin air? Wrong is just WRONG! It's not debatable. Look, if you'd ever had any real experience with Japanese you'd know native speakers rarely (if ever) say in common spoken language "Kami no Michi, they say "Shinto" If you walked up to a Japanese on the street in Tokyo and asked for directions to the closest Kami no Michi Jinja, they'd look at you cross-eyed.

Some advice to live by. If you don't know what you're talking about JUST STOP TALKING. Don't invent absurd nonsense.

And, to echo Keith Larman, proper writing skills are not spoon feeding anyone. If you cannot compose your thoughts in a manner that allows them to be easily understood, it is you who are at fault. No amount of convoluted rationalization changes that fact. You are either successful at communicating your thoughts thru the proper application of writing skills or you are a failure. Trying to justify abhorrent writing skills by blaming the reader, or worse yet, claiming it to be "your accent" is laughable and should be embarrassing. You will never be taken seriously if you can't even go to the trouble to compose a decent sentence. Why should I consider one thought, idea or concept worthy of my time if the writer doesn't respect me enough to intelligently represent his thoughts thru competent use of the written word?

To be clear, so you do not misunderstand me, I will never become accustomed to bad writing. I will always be irritated by people who try to represent authoritative opinions poorly, because I prefer to ignore people who can't write. They are not worthy of my time or trouble because I have only so many heartbeats before I am released from my mortal coil.