I don't trust PFF's grades, in general, and this is another situation why. Maybe they downgrade them in plays where others made great plays, but I saw Osgood and Spillman both make giant plays a number of times last season, and when Osgood was inactive, it was clear to see the impact of that.

That said, Osgood isn't effected by this move. He's a gunner on Special Teams, and Costanzo is not. More effected by this move would be one or two of Dahl/Ventrone/Spillman, and I might say in that order.

Yeah, PFF grades can be misleading, but it was something that stood out to me, because Spillman was rated, not just low, but as one of the worst special teamers in the league.

As for who it effects, I think it'll effect mostly Nick Moody or possibly Ventrone as the punt protector. Osgood AND Spillman are both gunners, so I don't think Costanzo is really competing with them. However, the reason I don't expect Osgood back, and possibly Spillman, is because I think one of the young DBs (Ward, Morris, Acker) will win one or both of those gunner spots.

Wasn't Morris a gunner on several punts last year. I seem to recall seeing him fly down the field on several occasions._________________

Wasn't Morris a gunner on several punts last year. I seem to recall seeing him fly down the field on several occasions.

The only time I remember him doing it was against the Titans, when Reid and Whitner got hurt, and Spillman and Dahl got pushed into starting spots. He was partially responsible (in my opinion) for the muffed punt that Osgood ended up recovering for a TD._________________

Wasn't Morris a gunner on several punts last year. I seem to recall seeing him fly down the field on several occasions.

The only time I remember him doing it was against the Titans, when Reid and Whitner got hurt, and Spillman and Dahl got pushed into starting spots. He was partially responsible (in my opinion) for the muffed punt that Osgood ended up recovering for a TD.

i think morriss can man one of the gunner spots. then spillman takes the other or hopefully johnson can take it.

we need these young guys to be able to be special teams aces until their spot opens up on d so were not "wasting" roster spots_________________***WE RUN THE WEST!***
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This is what I'm saying. Idk...I think Baalke has too many good bodies. I mean part of it is insurance in case of injuries. But I think its also competion. If Borland is going to make the roster he has to stand out on STs, so you bring in one of the best STs LBers in the league and see how he measures up. Maybe a waste of $ in the end, but you make sure you leave no stone unturned.

But at some point, you can't keep plugging STs roles with vets who take up roster spots. You need younger players in those roles so they can develop. Brock isn't still around to have a break out season last year if he doesnt stick around in 2012 strictly a ST player. So to me, it will be interesting to see if Osgood, Ventrone, and Constanzo end up on the 53. If other guys like Campbell, Johnson, Borland and Moody can step up, you don't need those guys. But there has to be a way guys like Johnson and Lynch stick around. Do you risk them to the waiver wire or do you have a plan in place(IR stash) to dedicate roster spots to younger developmental players or is it really best player wins the roster spot?

Why do you think that? With Bowman out we have a wide open spot at starting ILB. Why do you think he won't be in contention for that spot?

And when Bowman returns, then what? That's my point. And whether its Borland, Moody, whoever, Constanzo's is pushing some young, developmental player off the 53...that's my point.

This is what I'm saying. Idk...I think Baalke has too many good bodies. I mean part of it is insurance in case of injuries. But I think its also competion. If Borland is going to make the roster he has to stand out on STs, so you bring in one of the best STs LBers in the league and see how he measures up. Maybe a waste of $ in the end, but you make sure you leave no stone unturned.

But at some point, you can't keep plugging STs roles with vets who take up roster spots. You need younger players in those roles so they can develop. Brock isn't still around to have a break out season last year if he doesnt stick around in 2012 strictly a ST player. So to me, it will be interesting to see if Osgood, Ventrone, and Constanzo end up on the 53. If other guys like Campbell, Johnson, Borland and Moody can step up, you don't need those guys. But there has to be a way guys like Johnson and Lynch stick around. Do you risk them to the waiver wire or do you have a plan in place(IR stash) to dedicate roster spots to younger developmental players or is it really best player wins the roster spot?

Why do you think that? With Bowman out we have a wide open spot at starting ILB. Why do you think he won't be in contention for that spot?

And when Bowman returns, then what? That's my point. And whether its Borland, Moody, whoever, Constanzo's is pushing some young, developmental player off the 53...that's my point.

53 best players - if a young player can't beat out Blake Costanzo for a roster spot and show more value in the process, then we need a different young player on the team._________________

Wasn't Morris a gunner on several punts last year. I seem to recall seeing him fly down the field on several occasions.

The only time I remember him doing it was against the Titans, when Reid and Whitner got hurt, and Spillman and Dahl got pushed into starting spots. He was partially responsible (in my opinion) for the muffed punt that Osgood ended up recovering for a TD.

i think morriss can man one of the gunner spots. then spillman takes the other or hopefully johnson can take it.

we need these young guys to be able to be special teams aces until their spot opens up on d so were not "wasting" roster spots

Agreed. I'm all for having great STs. And maybe we can afford to keep a couple of "specialists". But using those spots for veterans with no upside as position players seems to be wasting an opportunity to develop guys for the future._________________

This is what I'm saying. Idk...I think Baalke has too many good bodies. I mean part of it is insurance in case of injuries. But I think its also competion. If Borland is going to make the roster he has to stand out on STs, so you bring in one of the best STs LBers in the league and see how he measures up. Maybe a waste of $ in the end, but you make sure you leave no stone unturned.

But at some point, you can't keep plugging STs roles with vets who take up roster spots. You need younger players in those roles so they can develop. Brock isn't still around to have a break out season last year if he doesnt stick around in 2012 strictly a ST player. So to me, it will be interesting to see if Osgood, Ventrone, and Constanzo end up on the 53. If other guys like Campbell, Johnson, Borland and Moody can step up, you don't need those guys. But there has to be a way guys like Johnson and Lynch stick around. Do you risk them to the waiver wire or do you have a plan in place(IR stash) to dedicate roster spots to younger developmental players or is it really best player wins the roster spot?

Why do you think that? With Bowman out we have a wide open spot at starting ILB. Why do you think he won't be in contention for that spot?

And when Bowman returns, then what? That's my point. And whether its Borland, Moody, whoever, Constanzo's is pushing some young, developmental player off the 53...that's my point.

53 best players - if a young player can't beat out Blake Costanzo for a roster spot and show more value in the process, then we need a different young player on the team.

It's probably not as easy as that because the equation would have to balance immediate needs against long term success for the team. Then it's determining what a young guy's potential is, what his chances of reaching it is, and how much you want to give up now in order to take that chance that he'll develop._________________

Year after year we load this team up with a ton of guys who can cover kicks. Nothing wrong with that, our kick coverage is good. But year after year we completely ignore the returner position(s). Isn't it about time Jim and Co. that you invested a little time and effort in bringing a stud returner to this team. You have 11 guys (or 10 really) trying to stop the other team's returner. You only have one returning the ball for you. So how about we get a good one for a change.

I'm questioning whether it's really a returner problem.. whoever we put out there seems to turn into Captain Fair Catch. Is it because the returner isn't confident in his ability, or because there is poor blocking in front of him? We haven't had a return TD either on punts or kickoffs since week 1 of 2011, right? It has to be about more than the returner.

I think it's just one more thing that's reflective of what I like least about our coaching staff. They are all about not making mistakes, than about being able to make big plays. I think they're perfectly happy with a guy that just holds on to the ball and takes the fair catch or touchback, and doesn't risk muffing the kick or fumbling it when he's tackled.

I know that approach works well over the course of a season where you face a lot of weak or average teams. But we have clearly been lacking in fire power in the last game of the year for us all three of the past three seasons. I've been saying it for a season and a half at least. We play not to lose, rather than to win.

Still... Even after Nolan. This is what irks me the most about the current regime, is that they are too similar to the Nolan regime. [/b]_________________

This is what I'm saying. Idk...I think Baalke has too many good bodies. I mean part of it is insurance in case of injuries. But I think its also competion. If Borland is going to make the roster he has to stand out on STs, so you bring in one of the best STs LBers in the league and see how he measures up. Maybe a waste of $ in the end, but you make sure you leave no stone unturned.

But at some point, you can't keep plugging STs roles with vets who take up roster spots. You need younger players in those roles so they can develop. Brock isn't still around to have a break out season last year if he doesnt stick around in 2012 strictly a ST player. So to me, it will be interesting to see if Osgood, Ventrone, and Constanzo end up on the 53. If other guys like Campbell, Johnson, Borland and Moody can step up, you don't need those guys. But there has to be a way guys like Johnson and Lynch stick around. Do you risk them to the waiver wire or do you have a plan in place(IR stash) to dedicate roster spots to younger developmental players or is it really best player wins the roster spot?

Why do you think that? With Bowman out we have a wide open spot at starting ILB. Why do you think he won't be in contention for that spot?

And when Bowman returns, then what? That's my point. And whether its Borland, Moody, whoever, Constanzo's is pushing some young, developmental player off the 53...that's my point.

53 best players - if a young player can't beat out Blake Costanzo for a roster spot and show more value in the process, then we need a different young player on the team.

It's probably not as easy as that because the equation would have to balance immediate needs against long term success for the team. Then it's determining what a young guy's potential is, what his chances of reaching it is, and how much you want to give up now in order to take that chance that he'll develop.

I agree. But if we're cutting him in favor of Costanzo, then I expect we don't presume he'll amount to much. Thus - Costanzo is one of the 53 best players. If it's just a slight drop from Costanzo to say Skov on Special Teams, but Skov shows a ton more promise at linebacker - then it should be an easy call. If he doesn't, then it's yet again...a pretty easy call._________________