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Friday, March 27, 2015

UPDATE, Dr David Jeremiah's shocking apostasy

A few days ago, a friend emailed me a link to an invitation and announcement of an event at Dr David Jeremiah's Shadow Mountain Church. I was saddened but not surprised. It was indicative of the grievous trajectory one displays when one begins to depart from the faith. But first, let's go back and do some groundwork.

Apostasy - the Lord prophesied a massive falling away from the faith during the tribulation, and a ramp-up preceding it. (2 Timothy 3:13, 1 Timothy 4:1). Apostasy, according to Theopedia, is

what one commits when they denounce, reject, or fall away from their faith (i.e. religion). A person who commits apostasy is called an apostate.

People reject Christ. They always have. They always will. This rejection comes in different flavors. It is the flat-out atheist who says there is no God, and that he, the atheist, doesn't sin. There is the Catholic-Buddhist-Hindu-Wicca-New Age-Muslim who claims to believe something, as long as it isn't Jesus, the blood, resurrection, personal sin or wrath for it.

And there there is the false Christian. This is a person who is a tare that is mixed in with the wheat. The person whose heart was thorny ground or rocky ground when the word was delivered, and seemed to have thrived for a while, but then faded away. (Luke 8:6-7). Some people fall away from the truth quickly, like Charles Templeton. Others, like Billy Graham, take a lifetime to reveal themselves. Either way, for the person who doesn't truly believe, no matter how hard they try to blend in, their sheep mask will someday slip and reveal the wolf.

It is the case with Dr David Jeremiah.

There are many detailed examples I could give. I won't. I'll give three. They should be enough to demonstrate that the pastor of Shadow Mountain church and narrator at Turning Point television and radio is no longer to be trusted.

1. TBN

Jeremiah regularly appears on Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) alongside Paul Crouch (when he was alive) during their fall Praise-A-Thon. TBN is a broadcaster of heresy, an exporter of error, and a brood of vipers. Their prosperity Gospel, false claims of holiness healing, charismania, greed, and pure unadulterated contempt for the people watching is grievous. One look at their regular programming schedule from 2010 shows faithlessness at every hour. The schedule from today is equally bad.

Below is a screen shot from the November 2014 TBN Praise-A-Thon where Jeremiah is 'preaching' the sowing principle. Also known as 'sowing a seed,' in this still pic, Jeremiah was urging people to send money to TBN based on the sowing principle. He said that even God believes in the sowing principle, you know, He sent His Son to be sown into the world and now we are reaping the harvest.

At the crawl along the bottom of Jeremiah's 'sermon' was a promise that a donation of any kind will result in the donor being sent a bottle of "Psalm 45 perfume", fragrances from the bible bottled in an attractive container...and there were phone numbers along the top for people to call now. Gross.

A person wrote to GotQuestions about the doctrine of sowing a seed to reap a financial harvest. ... The central theme in seed faith giving is the money you give to spread the gospel God would multiply back to you thirty, sixty, and one-hundredfold.

TBN (Trinity Broadcasting Network) not only sponsors these false ministries but has unreservedly adopted the gospel of greed heresy. TBN is a major media portal to the world, responsible for sending the gospel of greed heresy to hundreds of millions of unsuspecting people, and taking what little money they have. The gospel of greed has become a means of livelihood for prosperity preachers who live lavish lifestyles while telling you to send money to get more money. Jan Crouch, in her soft sugary voice said on TBN, “God has a special blessing for the little women who have caught the vision of giving, even if only their grocery money.” While there are many Christians who see TBN and its association with the gospel of greed ministries as an abomination, many others (not well versed in the Bible) believe in the heresy and fall prey to its deception.

Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.

And not only is Jeremiah partnering with them, but is urging people to send money so the unbiblical heresies can continue being exported and the deception can be continued.

2. Roma Downey/Mark Burnett

Jeremiah was asked by the Downey/Burnett duo to write a companion book on Acts as a sequel to their miniseries titled "The Bible". The new tv show is called A.D. The Revolution Continues and will be broadcast on Easter. The married duo also produced The Son of God movie seen in theaters. You might remember Roma Downey in the long-running tv show Touched By An Angel. Pastor Justin Peters said that The Bible was so lacking in a Gospel presentation that it wasn't even accidentally given.

Below, Jeremiah and Downey/Burnett are at Shadow Mountain Church discussing the new tv show A.D. and Jeremiah's new companion book based on the biblical book of Acts. The interview was held on March 12, 2015 at the church.

This is not surprising since Downey and Burnett aren't Christian. Downey says she is a devout Catholic and is also a mystic. She "sees God in everyone." and utters claptrap such as "The language of God is in the silence." She attained a Master's Degree from a New Age college in Spiritual Psychology. Her beliefs are not even close to being evangelical, born-again Christian. Further, she practices divination. She participated in a psychic show and allowed the medium to 'call up' her dead mother from the nether-realms and Downey talked with 'her'. This is divination and necromancy, part of a cadre of sorceries that God hates with a holy hatred. God said,

Thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of [the] nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord. (Deuteronomy 18:9)

If a person performs any of these sorceries, that person is detestable to God. That person is an abomination to God. And lest someone wrongly claim that the Deuteronomy verse is outdated just because it's Old Testament, sorceries are also forbidden in the New Testament. Revelation 18:23 and Galatians 5:19-21 strenuously forbid such practices.

Downey and Burnett have produced a tv show that twists the bible, presents another Jesus, fails to offer the Gospel, and they themselves have participated in New Age, direct revelation, mystical practices, and sorceries. Yet a supposedly astute and mature bible teacher such as Jeremiah has invited the duo to his pulpit and interviewed them in order to promote the next tv series, A.D. and by the way, his new book. In the interview Jeremiah flatly said that the duo creates shows that honor the word of God and doesn't pervert it. Justin Peters was astounded to hear Jeremiah say this. Peters remarked that Jeremiah is well-versed in the bible and he knows when it's being twisted. The only possible explanation for Jeremiah saying that "The Bible" mini-series honors God's words is that he is being deliberately dishonest. If you know Justin Peters, you know he never says anything lightly, and rarely if ever, does he ever say anything like that. He was truly shocked.

As for Jeremiah's partnership on TBN with the Crouches et al, and with Downey/Burnett et al, the bible saysDo not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God... (2 Corinthians 14-16a).

For believers there can be no compromise. We cannot engage ourselves with unbelievers in any spiritual enterprise. That’s the issue. “Do not be bound together with unbelievers.” That is he command that sets this text in motion. And it is an unmistakable call to believers to separate from unbelievers. No one could miss that that’s what it’s saying. The question is; what does it mean?

And as I said last time, it is essential to understand what it means, but first of all what it does not mean. Paul is not saying, cut off all contact with non-Christians. He’s not saying that because we have to reach them with the gospel. That is not the issue. He’s not saying don’t evangelize the unconverted; don’t confront people in false religions. He’s not saying that. We must do that.

Secondly, he is not calling for complete isolation on the part of the church. We are not to become isolationists. We are not to be monastics. We are not to go hide somewhere and pull apart from the world. Quite the contrary. We are to find unbelievers and love them and be their friend and set a model of spiritual example for them.

Furthermore, he is not saying you are to divorce your unsaved partner, or to sever all unsaved contacts. Or all contacts, I should say, with unsaved people in your family. He is also not saying that you can’t work or play or do business or be engaged in common earthly enterprise with unbelievers. He’s not saying that. Of course you can.

What he is saying is you cannot link up with unbelievers in religious causes or religious enterprises. You cannot go to their worship and become a part of it; you can’t make them a part of the kingdom of God. You can’t engage them in anything that involves ministry, teaching, or worship. Where there is ministry, teaching and worship there has to be absolute separation.

With Jeremiah, there is instead repeated partnership with darkness, evil, and error. He has no excuse.

3. Reading his own book from the pulpit

A friend who likes David Jeremiah was fully engaged in Jeremiah's recent series on Revelation. Knowing I enjoy studying prophecy, he urged me to tune in to the sermon series. I did. As the sermon opened I was assaulted by pounding music and slick graphics. Then Jeremiah began reading. I could not understand where he was reading from because the passage didn't sound like the Bible. I thought I must have missed something. I listened a bit more and then turned it off.

I tried again the next week, and I realized as I listened to Jeremiah read a lengthy passage, and I mean for 10 or 15 minutes, he was reading his own book, Agents of the Apocalypse.

I have a few things which are an immediate, instant determiner of my participation in or acceptance of an individual. When Rick Warren prayed in the name of Isa (a false god) at Obama's first inaugural, I immediately knew Warren was not a true Christian. I dismissed Warren from my mind then and there. When Billy Graham said that any person living in a jungle who never heard of Jesus or the bible is saved and going to heaven, I knew without a shadow of a doubt the man was false. And when Jeremiah read from the pulpit his own words instead of God's words, I knew he did not have the heart of a pastor nor did he have a transformed mind. How dare any person substitute or equalize man's words from the pulpit instead of God's.

Can you picture the momentous scene in Nehemiah 8:1-2?

The public reading of the Scriptures was required by the law to be made every seventh year; but during the long period of the [Babylonian] captivity this excellent practice, with many others, had fallen into neglect, till revived, on this occasion. ~Jamiesen-Fausset -Brown Commentary

And all the people gathered as one man at the square which was in front of the Water Gate, and they asked Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the Lord had given to Israel. 2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. (Nehemiah 8:1-2)

How tremendous! The people are all gathered for the first time in generations, eager to hear the word of God. They were joyous in being able to celebrate His holy word and adopt His statutes. What if Ezra had ascended the stairs, opened the scroll, took a deep breath, and said, "Before I launch into a reading of the word, let's listen to an excerpt from a book I wrote on traveling mishaps on the way to and from Babylon. It's called "Agents of the Captivity," and it is on sale in the temple bookstore."

Ezra Reads the Book of the Law, David Martin, 1659

How dare he! Is there no gravitas? Is there no pastoral respect for the pulpit? Is there no submission in fear of God? Is there no place one can bask in unadulterated holy scripture and not be pressed into buying something associated with it? Worse, is this message from Dr Jeremiah:

On Easter Sunday, Turning Point Television will begin airing our new series, A.D. The Revolution That Changed the World. This teaching series is the “Scripture behind the story” of the dramatic NBC television event, A.D.The Bible Continues.

Gross. Hollywood overtakes Shadow Mountain.

I am indeed sad that many people who like Dr David Jeremiah will be grieved to read this news, myself included. However, the work of the Christian is to uphold the glory of Jesus, to warn of apostates, and to encourage each other in the Word. When a man alleging to be an undershepherd of the Lord hawks his book from the pulpit during Sunday service, presses the poor to sow a seed so TBN can continue promoting doctrines of devils, and when he pollutes his own stage with a necromancer, we must call a spade a spade and glorify the Lord by warning about Dr David Jeremiah.

Please take these things under consideration, and continue to pray for wisdom and discernment as more and more men and women are revealed who have fallen prey to satan. Pray for them, and pray for your fellow church members. We are sheep among wolves.

Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. (Matthew 10:16). As Jamieson Commentary says of the above verse,

Alone, the wisdom of the serpent is mere cunning, and the harmlessness of the dove little better than weakness: but in combination, the wisdom of the serpent would save them from unnecessary exposure to danger; the harmlessness of the dove, from sinful expedients to escape it. In the apostolic age of Christianity, how harmoniously were these qualities displayed! Instead of the fanatical thirst for martyrdom, to which a later age gave birth, there was a manly combination of unflinching zeal and calm discretion, before which nothing was able to stand.

(Chicago, February 2015)— Tyndale House Publishers will partner with New York Times bestselling author and Bible teacher Dr. David Jeremiah to produce the companion books for NBC’s A.D. The Bible Continues television event, launching this Easter. A.D. The Bible Continues picks up where the smash-hit miniseries The Bible left off, continuing the greatest story ever told and exploring the exciting and inspiring events that followed the crucifixion of Christ as recorded in the Book of Acts.

74 comments:

I agree that some teachers may have overstepped their bounds, and it's okay to call them out on it, but I wouldn't be too quick to say they're not Christians! I wonder how many of these so-called discernment experts are guilty of slander (James 4:11).

It is my sincere hope that you will publish my comment so it will give others to see another side. I haven't had time to investigate all of the below claims...but before people are thrown under the bus and things are assumed I think Dr. J should be contacted for his reply...if you think he will not answer truthfully.....I say to you...the Holy Spirit will help you to discern......

You certainly are audacious. You "had time" to write a three-part comment response to my article containing 1152 words, but have not "had time" to investigate the essay's claims. Shame on you.

In addition, in 1,152 words, you never used even one bible verse to support your claims. Instead I have received a three-part comment containing name calling, emotionalism, huffiness, and unsubstantiated paper-thin refutations.

Third, your pea for me to "contact Dr Jeremiah" illustrated your complete ignorance of how things are done regarding Matthew 18 in the discernment realms, therefore if you HAD even used one bible verse to support your ad hominem emotional claims, it would in all likelihood be wrong.

Yes we're all sinners, but not all of us are forgiven sinners and not all of us who are forgiven have the amount of discernment necessary to be making unfortunate public displays like you're making. No, I am not giving you a forum until you pray, ask the Spirit for wisdom, consult the bible in investigating these claims, and be teachable.

I agree that Christians should be measured when employing the practice of discernment, something we ALL should be expert in. It's up to each individual person as to when a limit has been reached. Perhaps the first time Jeremiah appeared on TBN promoting the network with all its programming, one should not be too quick to declare him untrustworthy. Or the second. Or the third? or the fourth?

Perhaps the first time Jeremiah partnered with darkness one should not immediately declare him a false Christian. Or the second. Or the third??

Or perhaps when a pastor teaches from his own book at the pulpit the first time...maybe. Or the second? Or the third? Persistent unbiblical choices are a problem. I am sad that this many unbiblical choices are not a problem for you. This is a problem.

Perhaps when he invited heretics to his pulpit as if they were brethren and treated them so, we should not call him a wolf. Or maybe not when he uses his own program to air an unbiblical television series ON EASTER? Jeremiah is presenting evil to his sheep. And this isn't a problem for you?

When, then?

No, we should not be too LATE in declaring a person untrustworthy.

As for your own comment, perhaps you were unwitting in your hypocrisy. First, you used the James verse incorrectly. It says not to judge BRETHREN. Jeremiah is not. The bible does say we will know them by their fruits, that we are to mark them who cause divisions, and that we are to name them and avoid them. (Mt 7:16, Rom 16:17, 2 John 1:10).

And that's not to say that we never confront a brother, either, because as Peter was falling into error, in love Paul opposed him to his face. (Gal 2:11)

As for your own choice of words, i.e. "so-called discernment experts", aimed at me obviously, isn't that a bit slanderous? At the least, it's a choice of words that isn't as grace-filled as one would expect from a person claiming to be a brother and remarking to another about not being judgmental to the brethren.

As for declaring someone not a brother, if they are not a brother they are not a brother. Period. We are constantly warned in the Bible to beware false prophets. Here is one such warning, from Jesus. You will see that we are told we WILL know them. It will be clear, by the fruit they produce.

Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? (Matthew 7:15-16).

We are also told that some claiming to be of the faith and set into leadership positions will indeed be false. (Matthew 7:22, 2 Pet 2:1, 2 Corinthians 11:13 & etc).

The verse about marking those which cause divisions is from Romans 16;17, and it is not intended to mark the Christians contending for the truth (exhorting for sound doctrine) but is intended for Christians to mark those who teach contrary to sound doctrine, which Dr Jeremiah does. Here is Gill's Exposition on the Romans verse:

"and them which cause divisions and offences, contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned. The men he would have taken notice of were such who divided them in their religious sentiments, introducing heterodox notions, contrary to the doctrine of the Scriptures,"

Now, do you have a particular objection to the content of the essay, using scripture, to let me know your concerns? Because your entire comment was simply "blame the messenger". If you'd like to have a rational discussion while standing on scripture, I'm all for it.

Thanks for the concise post, Elizabeth. Its crazy to me you would even have to point it out, as TBN is such a huge red flag to any even slightly discerning Christian! Oh well, better to warn than assume they would know.As for the abundance of once trusted teachers jumping the shark, it only points to the lateness of the hour. Sad, yet at the same time exciting, as we see scripture fulfilled before our eyes! It frustrates me that the majority of the church doesn't realize this. It seems the Lord is rapidly exposing the wolves these days, and in such a ridiculously obvious way that even a babe in Christ who reads the word, should be able to see it. That is the surprising part. I assumed it would be more subtle and harder to discern, but it is flagrant. That has me thinking two things: either many believers are decieved or undiscerning, or there are far more tares than we once thought.Jennifer

A while ago I tuned to a David Jeremiah sermon and he was using the RAF pilots in the Battle of Britain to illustrate a point and he was going on and on about how hard it was for them to eject from a burning aircraft. He went on to describe the damage to the ejection seats that would be caused by air combat making it impossible to eject. At that point I turned the radio off in disgust, it was impossible for these pilots to eject because there were no ejection seats during WWII, they didn't come until after the war. This is well known information, and a thought came to me "If he can be so wrong for so long on something that is so well known, what is he doing to God's word?" I truly believe that the Holy Spirit shoved me away from this man's words.

Not long after that, I discovered how David Jeremiah's plagiarism and how he purchased thousands of copies of his own book to drive it up the best seller lists ala Mark Driscoll and Scientology's "Dianetics"

Great point about the ejector seats. I was not aware he plagiarized. I looked it up and found some remarks about it. Apparently he plagiarized his 1990 book from one of Hal Lindsey's from the late 70s. I found a lot of accusation about the event and a lot of comments, but only one website that had data. And it was one person's detailed comparison of the wording from the two books with page numbers to compare, but no screen shots, .pdfs or Google books to look at for myself. I suppose that might be too much to ask seeing how both books predate the internet, although I wish someone would do that work so we can all really compare for ourselves. I am not fond of accusations, but after investigating it, I do think this one may have more of a base, as you brought up.

David Jeremiah came to a coliseum in my area many years ago, and I attended. I was surprised that he packed the house. A gentleman next to me wisely commented, "Is this guy really worth all this?" I was hoping to hear him preach on Bible prophecy, but he preached on God loves you. It was all a promotion of his book, God loves you, always has, always will...or some such title.

And I have since become wise, too, that his interpretation of prophecy is not altogether accurate. He teaches error. I stopped listening to him some time ago.

He teaches, as Tim LaHaye, that there will be a great number being saved of those "left behind" during the Great Tribulation. But the Bible teaches that those belonging to Christ have already been removed from the earth via the rapture. The age of grace is closed. That's why the others remain. And they will be sent a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie and worship the Beast and will fall under judgment. Those who are redeemed then will be among God's people, Israel, not the Gentiles. If David Jeremiah doesn't interpret this important distinction correctly, then I rather choose to listen to someone who has a correct understanding.

Thanks so much for giving me the example. I'd have to say on this score, at least, Jeremiah is correct. You're right when you say that believers will be raptured. It's also correct that the rapture closes the age of grace. And again, you're right that many will believe the lie and be lost forever. But it doesn't mean that no one is saved during the Tribulation. As a matter of fact, many will come to faith, but be martyred for it. Amazingly, some live and enter the MIllennial kingdom alive. After all, if all believers are raptured & glorified and all enemies of God are killed at Armageddon, who is left to repopulate the earthly kingdom Jesus establishes and then have children? Isaiah 65:20, and the context is the New Heavens and the New Earth.

In the first few moments after the rapture, there will be no believer left on earth. However the rapture itself is a sign. Many who have been given the Gospel will see it and understand that and then believe.

Who does the antichrist behead? Who is crying in heaven how long, O Lord? Who refuses the mark of the beast? Who are the sealed 144,000 evangelizing? Who are the children of the woman with 12 stars in Rev 12:17 the devil goes after? Saints. See Revelation 13:7, Revelation 14:12-13 also

Here is a really good essay explaining ithttp://www.compellingtruth.org/tribulation-saints.html

I still contend that DJ is incorrect on his teaching that there will be mass conversions (among Gentiles) following the rapture. After all, the marriage supper of the Lamb is taking place in heaven with all the ecclesia in attendance while the Tribulation is taking place on earth. Rev. 13:8 and 17:8 declare that the ones who are left behind remain because their names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. No new names are being written into the book. The final preaching of the gospel to the whole world does not result in salvation, but serves as a witness against them. (Rev. 14:6-7 will fulfill Mat. 24:14.) Therefore, they fall under God's wrath. God is not exercising "severe mercy" as I've heard some indicate. He sends a strong delusion upon them that they will believe a lie. He is sovereign and elects those who've been saved and are not appointed to wrath. It is also the time of Jacob's trouble, where Israel is the focus for restoration. The 144,000 come from the 12 tribes of Israel and they are witnessing to Israel and God is causing Israel to be re-gathered. The focus of Jesus' instructions concerning the antichrist during the Tribulation was strictly directed toward His Jewish audience...he warned them of the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place; he told them to pray their flight would not be on the "sabbath"; he instructed those in Judea to flee to the mountains of Edom, Moab and Ammom. All Jewish language. No instructions given to any Gentiles. And those who are to be redeemed will be Jews. They are the "saints" referenced in Rev.

I don't believe DJ has come to grips yet with the doctrine of God's sovereignty and the doctrine of election. Anyone who does not grasp those truths will easily erroneously interpret scripture as man having the ability to "make a decision for Christ" either now or during the Tribulation. God created it all, He controls it all, He determines it all and He does whatever pleases Him among the inhabitants of the earth. And He has no problem destroying what He created for His glory. Remember Noah and his family were the only survivors and the many were destroyed. God will do it again. He will save a few and destroy many. And it will all be for His glory.

Most commenters interpret that the Marriage Supper takes place after the tribulation is done, during the millennial kingdom. They interpret this due to the timing of the verse in late Revelation and also the fact that the marriage supper is modeled on Jewish customs, the three part wedding. The first is the betrothal (the church membership, selected since before the foundation of the world, it has a definite number of members -Rom 11:25- and our dowry is sealed within us, being the Spirit) second part is the presentation of the betrothed, that's the rapture and the Bema in heaven. In early Revelation we are still called the Bride. Then after Armageddon the church is called the Wife and we consummate, by the way we are also presented on earth. We have already been presented in heaven.

The Tribulation has two-fold purposes. Punishment for 7 years to the Jews. This is the decree mentioned since Artaxerxes' day, the decree of 70 weeks. God stopped the clock so that there is one 'week' or 7 years left on it, and that is to punish Israel for her transgressions. AKA The Time of Jacob's Trouble. So yes, many Jews will be saved, those protected by God at Petra during the last 3.5 years. These are the ones who heeded Jesus' advice in Mt 24 and ran to the mountains.

Also, the second purpose is to punish the world for its transgressions. In addition to Jews, Gentiles will be recipients of God's wrath, and some of those will be saved also, realizing that it is God doing these judgments and it's not global warming or something else the newscasters make up.

The Lamb's book of life extends throughout all history, not just the Tribulation. If it is as you say, that no Gentile will be saved during that 7 years, you're saying that ALL Gentiles on earth have committed the unforgivable sin and CANNOT be saved. Yet that is not so.

All I can say is, many will be saved during that 7 years, Jews and Gentiles included. Here is a good sermon for you to read or listen to, expositing the verses correctlyhttp://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/66-29/tribulation-saints-part-1

One thing to note is that there is a group of people mentioned in John's vision of heaven who are distinct from the Church as well as Israel, (at least they are not named in conjunction) and are described as those who "were beheaded for their witness" and most interpretations are that those are Tribulation martyrs. Given that they're not held synonymous with 'Israel,' it seems a bit of a stretch to say without support that they cannot be Gentiles.

Theologically, it makes sense that the 144,000 are preaching to the Gentiles, because that was the purpose of Israel in God's original plan: "to be a light to the nations," -- who are the nations? the people who are not Israel, not Jews. So on the basis of taking the Bible as a whole that preaches a consistent theological theme throughout, it seems that the 144,000 are preaching and 'converting' Gentiles, not Jews. There's honestly a stronger argument for that only the 144,000 Jews are saved, than that only the Jews and no Gentiles are saved (but I doubt both categorical exclusions, because I find no explicit textual warrant for it).

I would like to publicly thank you for writing this article Elizabeth! I have read over the article and each comment. Lord willing, it is my intent to continue monitoring the comments for the next several days. I, like yourself have been aware of David Jeremiah’s troubling significant Biblical violations that have escalated over the past several years! I share ALL of your convictions that you have written about in this article! Truth is truth no matter who it is for, and no real Christian will want to be deceived! This is exactly the reason that God’s Word has warned us over and over again about false preachers, teachers, and teachings that WOULD escalate right prior to His return for His bride to be, and would reach a crescendo during antichrist short lived reign.

Sadly, as the discerning informed saint knows, there are many other top named leaders likewise showing very serious evidence of likewise going the way of apostasy! Also, having carefully read over the comment section AND Elizabeth’s responses, believe without reservation that she is theological sound! Folks this is very serious business and you do not want to be sucked into the vacuum of ecumenical, mystical, new age, doctrines of devils and demons! We the saint confirm the truth because we love the Lord God and His Word, and we love you enough to extend the Biblical warnings to those who will heed - lest you very well end up in the horrible place called hell!

So I hear about all the ones who are false prophets, who in your opinion are the ones who are truly led by God, because everytime I see the list they are all the ones we know. I'm no scholar of the Bible but I struggle to see where men and women of God who are leading people to Christ are considered false prophets. According to this post and many others there is no real good minister of the Word. Are we casting stones...because as for me I try to lay down my rock daily! Do we know the hearts of men? I do not!

Yes of course there are good women and men of God. Would Jesus not be raising up good men to preach in His name? Of course He is. Don't have such a dim view of His work here on earth. If you would like a list of those who I and others consider trustworthy please let me know and I will post it.

No we do not know the hearts of men but we do have a brain in our head, and we can listen to their doctrine and see their lives and know if they are true or false. If you refuse to contend for the faith and point out false teachers then that means you consider yourself better than the men in the Bible who did the same, (men like Paul, Peter, Timothy...) and better than the Holy Spirit who said to do this very thing.

As for people leading others to Jesus, WHICH JESUS? Different Jesuses are preached all the time. We must believe on "this same Jesus" as the men said in Acts 1:11 and this same Gospel and no other (2 Cor 11:4). Every book in the NT except Philemon opposes a false teaching, a false doctrine, or a false group. It is a huge issue, and it is sad you dismiss it so vehemently.

Discerning when someone is blaspheming Jesus by preaching errantly, and throwing stones are not the same thing. I pick up my cross daily, to defend the faith that Jesus died for and speak out against those who pervert it. How about you?

Usually if they are on TV, that is not a good sign. If you read the book of Jude, you get a chill up your spine:it is so relevant for today. One indictment I have of Jeremiah which raised a question mark, is how he tends to use the pulpit to aggrandize his political ideologies. This is usually an acid test.

I once was a member of FBC Atlanta and take no delight in informing those saints that will heed the serious warnings of MORE DECEPTION!Check out the following

PS, I also have other concerns with the contents of some of Stanley’s teachings. The following should be significant enough to put the discerning on RED ALERT!

Brother RickMetro Atlanta

Lighthouse Trails Editors (Links below)Charles Stanley

Excerpt from just ONE PAGE of search results!

Lighthouse Trails has watched in dismay over the past few years as Charles Stanley’sIn Touch magazine has made the decision to promote contemplative/emergent names. When our editors picked up a copy of the August 2013 issue and saw a feature article written by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, we decided to call In Touch Ministries to find out who was responsible for the content in the magazine. Sadly, the response we received from the editorial department at In Touch left us with a sinking feeling that the evangelical church has been seduced and there was no turning back.http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=12341&pfstyle=wp

Dr. Youssef has a new worship leader who is into mysticism and likes heretics. Dr. Youssef also signed the Manhattan Declaration, and the church has taught a class on lectio divina. I can no longer recommend Dr. Youssef because of these things.

I never liked David Jeremiah. He seemed like fluff to me. I have a friend that talks about him every time I visit her. David Jeremiah and Billy Graham. They both are too watered down for me. I would rather just read the Bible. You go wrong when you start to rely on the works of man rather than the inspired words of God. Humans are fallible. They will let you down every time.

Felix dont' throw out the baby with the bathwater. In His capacity as Head of the church, Jesus raises up men to lead us into truth, to evangelize, do missions, and so on. Plus, we all have the Spirit's gifts to edify each other and glorify Jesus. We don't 'rely' on each other for truth, because that comes from the bible as you say, but to dismiss every preacher, commentary, theological seminary, paper, tract and other works that come from fallible man He has raised us is disobedient to Jesus and disrespectful.(1 Tim 5:17)

Yes, men let us down. Yes there are false teachings out there. That's why we have to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves (Mt 10:16 & 1 John 4:1). To throw it all out in a fit of pique is the lazy way. Be persevering, do your diligence, and pray for the solid teachers as well as the false.

Elizabeth, I think you and Felix represent two sides of a valuable coin. Yes we should not dismiss anyone and everyone, but we should keep the stature and honor we give even the holy man of God in perspective. I am glad there is someone else who has pointed out that every book in the bible addressed false teachings. I liked Jeremiah because he would offer seminary background that has been helpful in elucidation some biblical passages. But I never relied on him for revelation.

I like(d?) DJ in general and my dad on the other hand, really likes and respects him. Anyway, I thank you for bringing all this to light. It's sad to hear about him and Charles Stanley but I've mentally prepared for the chance my favorite preachers would fall away. We all need the strength to be able to remember that these are just men and that our focus is Christ. It can be easy to get defensive.

Can you please speak more about false christians? I read the paragraph and I'm scared my brother and I are false christians. I have honestly been separating myself from God for quite some time now after not being able to endure a trial. I hear real christians get through trials but all I've been doing is running from God just to avoid a particular trial. Is this normal? I sometimes feel like Job but I don't even think I can compare myself to him. I'm worried for my brother too because we grew up in the church but he is pretty ingrained in the world apart from going to church when he is with family. I look forward to your thoughts

For some reason I did not see your comment a few weeks ago, so I hope to help you in answer to your question. Your question “Can you please speak more about false Christians? I read the paragraph and I'm scared my brother and I are false Christians.”

I can not say if you and your brother are genuine Christians are not. Either way it does sound like you are in a dangerous situation spiritually speaking, and we both know that it is critical to aggressively come to the place of truth on this! Often times truth is hard to accept but the alternative is to believe a lie, and one who shuns the truth is not only in danger of inevitable judgment, but also is a very foolish person.

John MacArthur has preached some excellent messages on the question at hand. In fact he has preached numerous sermons on it, I will include a couple of direct links to these messages below. In addition, I think and I hope, that you may find some help in reading an excerpt of one of my gospel tracts that I have written and regularly distribute. I am far from being a professional writer, and I acknowledge this. Some people may even fail to take my tract seriously because of my lack of skills, and this would be very sad for them! I think it is at least clear enough that the Lord God can use, and this is why I continue to get these out. I hope that you will read it with an acute awareness of contrition before the all seeing eyes of the Lord God.

#1 Excerpt from one of my tractsThe warning that God has given, and found in the Holy Bible, is "REPENT of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". The Bible has made this crystal clear in NO uncertain terms! Repentance could be rightly called a change of heart, or an attitude of authentic remorse before the Lord God. Repentance is an attitude of contrition, a humble spirit, an awareness of your evil life. A sincere turning away from what you know to be wrong, and turning in faith to the Lord Jesus Christ.

He will be either your Judge, or your Savior-Redeemer. It's not necessarily your sins in which you will be judge for, although this is true, it will be your very nature of sin. Mankind sins because, he is a sinner at heart! No matter how hard a man tries to establish a good standing with God by his own futile efforts, he always comes up short, in fact, man's own conscious reminds, and condemns him of this.# 2 ExcerptIt will cost you ALL to come to Jesus Christ, you must turn from sin. Not practical perfection, not sinlessness , but rather a heartfelt attitude of truly turning from your wicked ways. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and all that the Bible says that He is. You must cry out to the Lord God to forgive you. You must ask Jesus Christ to be your Lord and your Savior, ask Him to write your name in His Book of Life.

The Bible say's a man (or woman) is "saved by faith, through grace and that not of ourselves". The Bible also has said, that "a tree will be known by the type of fruit in which it produces", and "to be doers of the Word of God". God has said "If you are in the light (Jesus Christ) then walk in the light, for if you walk in darkness the Truth is not in you"! Folk's whom purport to be a Christian don't like hearing this, they say "we are saved by grace". . .and this is totally true. However, the Bible also makes it clear that it is a grace which shows fourth evidence of this being a reality. Again, "ye shall know a tree by the type of fruit in which it produces. End Excerpt

How to Be Right with God, Part 1http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/45-29/how-to-be-right-with-god-part-1

An Important Supplement to my first responds to Debbie (and others searching for the REAL TRUTH too)

Debbie, and to whom it may concern,

The following is another excellent message by Pastor John MacArthur concerning your question.The theme or the thrust of the message has to do with the question “can Jesus Christ JUST be a person’s savior and not Lord, and maybe the so called saved person can make him Lord at a later date. OR does one take HIM as He is - Lord AND Savior?”

I pray that you will come to real liberating peace found only in the REAL Jesus of the Bible. You MAY have to re-think the false theology that folks have propagated to you in yesteryears by building a false assurance based on a few passages of scripture, instead of looking at the totality of all of God’s Word in context. This is serious business and we are in a night that is very well spent!

By the way, if you were to listen to just one of the four message links that I have lovingly provided to you, then this would be the one! I hope you will listen to all of them! You too need to get away from the people, places, and things that war against your soul! You need to read the Bible daily along with heartfelt prayer! You would be so wise to enter into the hardships of the faith by paying the price in living a Christ honoring life. This may mean staying home alone, getting rid of certain TV programs if not all. It may mean being ostracized from your family, friends, and a list of other wise pursuits that I can not give you! Your life could be more spent than you even realize-I hope that you will respond to the Lord’s mercy and grace NOW while HE is knocking and you still can! There are NO 2nd chances my dear friend!

Good essay! I live 4 min. from DJ's church and can't STAND the entertainment atmosphere and the glitzy sermons, Rock "music," humungous screens up front, etc. The whole thing reeks of Hollywoodism. :(

One thing, though: when Warren prayed the name Isa, if you look it up in context, you'll see it was not the goddess Isis, but the Arab name for Jesus. I have no use at ALL for Warren (pestilent teachings), but one mustn't misrepresent even an opponent, in the interest of truth and of not appearing ignorant or libelous.

Anonymous said: I have become increasingly frustrated at select believers who feel compelled to exert “discernment” and expose “false teachers/false Christians”, under the assumption they are providing a service to God’s kingdom. First, it IS scriptural to exercise discernment and expose false teachers, but I’m concerned that believers, in their zeal to live out this portion of God’s instructions, overlook context, omit important portions of Scripture, and fail to ensure their premise aligns with the entire Gospel

Anonymous I agree that some people who say they are practicing discernment do the things you mentioned. They "overlook context, omit important portions of Scripture, and fail to ensure their premise aligns with the entire Gospel". Others have become careless, or overly critical. That is true. We are in agreement in this.

From other responses, I think we can agree pastors are human (all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God). They are capable of missing the mark and “overstepping their bounds”. But when their entire ministry is discredited and they are labeled as false Christians, while ignoring the fact that countless souls have come to Christ, this is considered a service for God’s kingdom?

Anonymous you're making several mistakes here. First, yes entire ministries and movements can be discredited. Jesus rejected the Way of Balaam, the Nicolaitians and Paul rejected the Judaizers and John, the Gnostics.

Second, yes pastors and fallible humans. This has nothing to do with heresy. Nothing. In your view, since we are all sinners we should NEVER reject or rebuke a pastor or movement. We would also never be able to worship in spirit and in TRUTH, since, as you say, we are all human and we all sin.

In wanting to sift through error to get to truth, you forget the Holy Spirit. Yes man is fallible but the Spirit is not. He IS the doctrine of Illumination. He imparts truth to us as we read the word, He opens our mind. Trust the Spirit to do the work where fallible humans cannot.

Next, you said 'countless"many have come to Christ through Jeremiah. Really? Which Christ? The pagan Christ of Downey's Vidal Sassoon Jesus? Or Downey's AD The Bible Continues Social Activist Jesus? The prosperity Christ of TBN, which Jeremiah flogs and supports? Or the Jesus of man-centered theology when Jeremiah reads his own book of Revelation at the pulpit? No, sadly, error can never produce the effects of truth. http://www.challies.com/quotes/error-can-never-produce-the-effects-of-truth

Last, it is plain to see that once infection has set in to the degree it has with Jeremiah (and I have not even mentioned his plaigiarism years ago, for which he has disqualified himself from ministry) that the ENTIRE MINISTRY should be avoided. As the bible says in Rom 16:17-18

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

Gal 1:8 says But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

So you say they are NOT under God's a curse when they preach a different gospel but should be listened to and applauded. Hmmm.

I have watched Dr David Jeremiah on tv on and off for some months, however my suspicians were raised because he spoke a lot about end times but always with the message not to worry. After reading Micah my ear was tuned in such a way that Dr David Jeremiah then seemed off key and I felt he was preaching peace where there is no peace.

I read all comments and commentaries here and one song and a scripture keeps coming to mind, "where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" and then iron sharpens iron, I personally see these discuss as a way to learn from ourselves, especially those that have a sincere heart to know the truth and follow after it, the ultimate goal is that we be not deceived by every wind of doctrine, but I fear there are two things we are living out, ONE, in our quest for the truth, we must ask the Lord to show it, we need to have a personal revelation through His word, so WE NEED TO ASK THE LORD IN PRAYER TO SHOW US DEEPER TRUTHS OF HIS WORD AS IT RELATES TO HIS COMING AND FINAL EVENTS ON THE EARTH, why? So that it can better equip us to live better for Him; and I am certain He will, because that is not asking amiss. (“We receive not because we ask amiss”…) He is never an author of confusion. When we make this simple request in prayers, we are bringing Him into our study and recognizing the fact that our brains as good as they are, our intellects are limited to earth, but need divine illumination to understand some of the things that has been shared above. TWO, Yahusha (whom the world call Jesus) gave us one very important instruction, I think its found in Matthews Chapter 24 and following: it says “watch and pray therefore so that you will be accounted worthy to escape these things” i.e all the events He has been narrating about the end of age.

I came across your site as I was looking up to see if David Jeremiah had turned to be a name it and claim it. And the reason I was searching was, I saw this article with a picture of David Jeremiah along with Kenneth Copeland and Paula white and others praying over Donald Trump,.and red flags went up,There is one thing I did not understand in the comments when you said Billy Graham was false, did you mean he was an apostate or just the statement he made was false?( When Billy Graham said that any person living in a jungle who never heard of Jesus or the bible is saved and going to heaven)I do understand the statement is not correct, Jesus said HE is the Way the Truth And the Life No man can go to the Father but thru him. I do not pretend to understand about predestination if I am allowed to use that word. But this I know my GOD is sovereign, and HIS ways are higher than my ways, HIS thoughts higher than my thoughts.

I cannot speak about Dr. David Jeremiah and TBN as I do not watch TBN, or other evangelical television station broadcasts (Daystar, Jim Bakker, etc.) However, I have been following the Turning Point Apocalypse series that is shown on Sundays on my local christian tv station. I have found it fascinating in the visual (I am a visual learner) and also from a biblical recounting of bible verses that supports the series' opening production.

If you had stuck with the broadcast(s) you attempted to view, you would have heard Dr. Jeremiah admit that the 'story' (approx. first 10 mins of each broadcast), is a fictionalized accounting of events to come. I believe this set the stage for the audience to 'visualize' on a small scale what the tribulation will be like. Dr. Jeremiah then followed this up with the actual scripture in Revelation, verse by verse, broken down so that it was easy to understand.

He also went on to explain how terrible this time will be and that we must be ready for Christ's return. Because people delude themselves if they really think they can live as they please, and then take their chances to be saved after they have proof that all the true Christians have disappeared so, therefore, God must be real. Dr. Jeremiah pointed out that if one waits until there is 'proof' that God is real, the times will be so horrific that most will be too faint of heart to accept Christ as Savior, and to endure torture and death for their faith.

I will not enter into a debate with you about this man's theology being false or otherwise. I am just pointing out your admittance that you got disgusted with what you were hearing/seeing therefore, you turned it off without watching to the end of the program. If you had continued to watch, you would have heard him admit the beginning was fiction and then seen for yourself how he used scripture (verse by verse and not taken out of context) to support his writings.

I am not that familiar with David Jeremiah or his church, books, etc other than this series. As I said, I started watching these programs on my local tv station and thought they were interesting. I have not purchased any of his books or anything else from his ministry. I also don't know anything about Roma Downey or her husband, and have never watched their production of the Bible or A.D. series shown on television.

Thank you for the information, however you completely missed the point. *Whether or not* the man said at the outset it was fiction, using his own words to share a scriptural truth as you stated, 'to better prepare' people for the coming Tribulation, is unwarranted, unwise, and monstrously wrong. Does he hold the words of our God in so little regard we think HE can do better on a sacred Sunday at the pulpit to prepare us for spiritual realities? Obviously he does and thus fails basic biblical qualifications of his pastoral charge. As a matter of fact your explanation makes the situation *worse*. I use as the basis 2 Timothy 2:15, 2 Timothy 4:1-5, 1 Timothy 3:1-2 and especially Titus 1:7, 9 which says to exhort in sound doctrine, not prepare in personally written fiction.

Since you admitted having little to no knowledge of 2/3 of the focus of my essay, TBN, and Roma Donwey, I'd humbly suggest gaining some information on them becuase the partnering of Jeremiah with them (and also Osteen and Meyer) proves his unwise focus on darkness and not light, his terrible lack of discernment, and his awful example to his flock.

Although this grieves me, it doesn't surprise me. The first red flag for me was the stained glass masonic eye in his church. Yes, I know a person's rebuttal to that is that it is a fish not an eye. It is *not a fish. Lies need to be gift wrapped - like Snow White's apple. Truth is used and abused as the gift wrap. On Osteen's stage is a huge globe of the world. The ruler of this world is His boss, clearly. When you make a list of the fruit and add it to the package, the plain whole truth is usually evident. People often ignore a mountain of evidence in so many areas of their lives. I've been there. In matters of faith, it is clear that true Churchians follow people faithfully and have a pride of it about them. True Christians follow Christ carefully. At this point, I see the falling away as already enormous. Who will be left standing? The Way being narrow couldn't be more clear now. And, there is a traffic jam at the wide gate.

Let's use the Bible to compare what a person says and does to make our determinations, not a supposed masonic eye. Dr Jeremiah is showing his apostasy by his misuse of scripture in writing the Bible series with Downey, misusing the pulpit to promote his own books, and his associations, and that's enough without falling off the deep end of interpreting alleged secret symbols.

Elizabeth, I came across your website when I was researching Isaiah 43 to try to understand if He is speaking just to Israel, or if this passage applies to us, as Christians, through Christ. (If you have a comment on that, I would love your perspective.) In reading your article, and through some of the comments, I see support of John MacArthur but not Graham and (obviously) Jeremiah. Are there other pastors (with mass viewership, as the three mentioned above) that you believe are Biblically sound? Thank you!

Yes, Brent, I only post replies that suit me. That is because this is my blog and I do what suits me.

There are currently 46 comments on this thread. If you would like yours to be #47 here is what you need to do:

Be civil.Use the bible, the actual verse, or address, or at least paraphrasing, or the concept of a verse.Be gracious, as in the LordBe somewhat knowledgeable, or if not, then at least be humbleBe on topicBe short- in other words, don't post something that is longer than the original postDon't be repetitive. I say again, don't be repetitive.Has your comment already been, in effect, stated? Does your comment push the conversation forward with new insights or added nuance?Refrain from self-promotion by simply using the comment section to post a link to your real estate blog or whatever blog a person is flogging.Refrain from personal attacks. Oops, you failed that one already.

Saying for sure someone is false takes discernment, prayer, and time. It takes time for fruit to develop, or not develop. It also takes lots of evidence that's embedded in an entrenched pattern so as to demonstrate to observers that the outward orientation is flesh and not Christ.

I have not been tracking Dr Jeremiah. Apart from the three evidences presented here, I am unaware of further apostasizing behaviors, alternately nor do I see a lack of apostasizing behaviors. For ME, it's too soon for me to make a declarative statement one way or another.

Sounds like the person who wrote this article is what we in the South used to call "an aginner." One who's against everything and everybody. Now I agree that some of these are false. And I agree that some who are not false come down on the wrong side of things sometimes. But maybe they repent. I don't know what goes on in their prayer closet. But to say Billy Graham, the greatest preacher of the gospel since the Apostle Paul, is false? Wow! That's going too far. I've listened to many of his sermons and read a number of his books and I've been a Christian 66 years now and taught and been very active in my very conservative, fundamental Baptist church since I was 22 (almost 76 now) and I've NEVER run across anything Billy Graham said or wrote that I even remotely thought was false. Kinda makes me wonder about the writer of this article.

I read your comment with sadness and concern. First, the sadness. If you have been a Christian as long as you claim, then when you hear a person making a statement which concerns you, rather than call them names and cast aspersions, it is better simply to politely ask what caused me to write such a thing. it's simpler, kinder, and it's biblical.

Secondly the concern part: if you have been a Christian as long as you claim, then to have NOT heard or seen any of the false statements and beliefs that Graham has proposed speaks as much to your lack of discernment as to your Christianity.

Rather than take the time to write a comment "wondering about the person who wrote the article" than to ask for more information, or better yet, research it out yourself, would have been the preferable route. You have set a poor example of how to civilly engage a sister for one who is supposed to have been a long-time Christian (who should know better).

2 Tim 2:25The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition

Titus 3:2to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.

1 John 4:1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

I haven't read all of the comments, so the answer to my question may be in one of them. While I personally have "fallen" from my faith due to the exhibitions explained above of such churches, pastors, teachers, etc., how to move on?? How do you keep from "seeing" these things in churches and Christians and continue following God?? How can I move forward and find a decent church that isn't plagued by all of the "materialism" and fanaticism associated with them? Is there anywhere at all?? On the other hand, We are all to forgive but where is the line drawn?? Just a few thoughts on the matter. I personally used to love listening to all of the above teachers, Dr. J included, but I have seen those same changes in all of the television "teachers". Any answer would be great or a source from the Bible.

I hear your pain in the comment. I understand, and empathize. it is grieving to our heart to have both participated in these things and after being given conviction or discernment about them, feel the hurt when others fall into the spell of these things too.

you ask a good question about how to go on and how to stay positive when suddenly we "see" it all around. First, remember you're not alone. In the first century, the Corinthians were a mess, yet there were of course some mature Christians who were not participating in adultery or drunkenness at the Lord's table. It must have grieved them too, but there was no other church to go to, Corinth was it! The church at Sardis was dead but Jesus said there were a few who hadn't soiled their garments. Imagine those folks' pain.

In today's time it is the same. Many are participating in false doctrine and refuse to be rebuked. Others are mixing genders or those who aren't are not submitting to their gender roles. It's a mess, yet that is how it's always been, in reality. The global Church of Jesus Christ, His Bride, has always been small. It is bloated with folks who are doing things but aren't saved (Mt 7:21-22) or who are saved but immature.

How do you deal with it? I don't have all the answers. I do know that Jesus triumphed over everything we see that is sin and wrong on earth, including false doctrine and materialism. Submit to His power and constantly pray in the knowledge that He bore it all. Imagine Jesus' grief to see the pollution in His Temple. Jesus had to clean out the Temple, twice!

Secondly, we are told many times to persevere. How I do that is by praying, reading the Bible for refreshment of Spirit, and picking my battles. You don't fight every battle with your two year old or with your teenager - church is the same. Pick them and then heartily praise the Holy Spirit when one of them is won. Camping out on the praise helps tremendously.

I'd suggest finding the verses from the Bible that focus on persevering, also read the letters to the churches in Revelation to see Jesus' mercy with them, and also read some lovely Psalms for a fill-up of grace. And then roll up your sleeves and go back to church :) We are all in this together- you are NOT alone. There are fellow Christians who feel as you do but best of all the Holy Spirit is WITH you and he is IN you. He will help- He is the Comforter. John 14:26

I have also been to churches recently where I felt in my heart that was what was being preached from the pulpit was wrong. I do not want to be misled. I I am hearing even denominations being debated. Will you be so kind as to answer for me does denomination matter? I went to buy a Bible the other day and there were so many versions of that I walked out with a sick feeling in my stomach. Which version is correct or does it matter?

I know that feeling, when your spirit is telling you something is off but you can't quite figure it out. And the number of different Bible versions available is overwhelming.

To your question, if you choose to be in a denominational church, yes, denomination matters. If you choose to join a non-denominational church that's OK too, as long as the church has some sort of accountability structure in place or a history of itself, and isn't totally rogue.

Some denominations affrm things the Bible does not affirm, like the Presbyterian Church USA, approving denominationally of gay marriage. Others, like the Methodist church, ordains women, something the Bible forbids. So research the denomination's doctrines and disctinctives before joining a church belonging to one.

As for Bible versions, yes the version matters. Here is an overview of Bible translations and a list of each for further exploration

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-versions.html

I recommend ESV or NASB. Here is John MacArthur answering the question, "Which Bble version is best?"

Hi Elizabeth,A couple of things I would like you to expand on if you would?

1. You reference in a prior post "sacred Sunday". What do you mean by this terminology? To my best knowledge the Sabbath is Saturday. What would make Sunday "sacred" in your mind?2. You also mention "the pulpit". The manner in which you mention seems to imply you view it as imbued with special significance. You seem particularly incensed that someone would speak from their own thoughts (or book) from the pulpit. However is not every sermon that consists of more than a strict reading of the Bible susceptible to being of man and not of God? Every sermon involves an attempt to illucidate on biblical truth and therefore is open to heresy. Is not the pulpit a platform for Christians to begin a conversation for discussing the things of God? The alternative is to insist the pulpit is only to be used for readings from the bible, absent any commentary whatsoever is it not? You make particular mention of the fact DJ reads from his own book. Is this not the distillation of his own thoughts on the matter? Would it be acceptable to read the exact material from sermon notes he had made but not from a book he had written? Please understand I am asking about a principle without any attempt to reference the actual material he presented. The principle is - do you object merely that he read from his own book, that he did it from the pulpit or that he shared something more than God's written word? It seems to me that the only alternative to your objection is to limit all material presented at the pulpit to a strict reading of God's word with no commentary or exposition allowed.

Two other matters.

You indicated you could provide a list of non-heretical teachers - please do so.

If you believe DJ is in error should you not first confront him, then take him before the elders (and I am fairly certain you know how the rest goes).

To conclude I am suspicious of DJ but would frankly like to see what he either would say in defence/rebuttal or see if he would repent/declare apostacy. This will never happen if he is not directly confronted.

You reference in a prior post "sacred Sunday". What do you mean by this terminology? To my best knowledge the Sabbath is Saturday. What would make Sunday "sacred" in your mind?

Not “in my mind” but the Bible in Genesis 2:3 says that the LORD rested on the 7th day and sanctified it. Cf Exodus 31:12.“He designed that that seventh day would be a special memorial to His creation and its original perfection. This is so important for you to understand. This is a day to be elevated above all other days as a memorial to remember the glory of God’s perfection in creation. Every seventh day from here on out would be a reminder that God in six days created the universe in perfection.”

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-379/understanding-the-sabbath

That was OT times. As for the New Testament times, people argue about the “true” Sabbath day. We will not argue about which day. As for the qualities of the day itself, for NT believers, the Sabbath has been fulfilled but worldwide believers gather on Sunday to worship. We set apart that day to honor the Lord. We call it the Lord’s Day. It is set apart, sanctified, or sacred because it is a marked-out day to celebrate Jesus and our redemption, break bread, pray, and hear the Word. You might benefit from listening or reading this sermon on Why Sunday is the Lord’s Day. https://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/90-380/Why-Sunday-Is-the-Lords-Day

As for the pulpit, your query is a straw man. However I will indulge. It is wrong for a preacher to use the pulpit to substitute his own written words of the Bible when the actual Bible is available. He substituted his own words for God’s. I would have rather hoped this error would be obvious to you. Failing that, in the essay I used the example of Ezra reading his own poems instead of the Law. It’s clear that supporting quotes or commentaries are not in view here, pastors use them to supplement a point all the time. The point here is that when a man has re-written a book of the Bible and uses that for the basis of his preaching and then flogs the sale of the book during the preaching time, it is a poor substitute. He cannot serve God and mammon. What he did serves Mammon. Luke 19:46, Mt 6:24. In addition, a congregation will reach no higher than the word they learn. No one was ever saved, edified, rebuked or convicted by a pastor’s own authored book.

I indicated that if asked, I’d provide a list of preachers I consider doctrinally sound. Thank you for your request. http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2016/01/arent-there-any-good-preacherschurches.htmlhttp://michellelesleybooks.com/2016/02/12/a-few-good-men-10-doctrinally-sound-male-teachers/

If you believe DJ is in error should you not first confront him, then take him before the elders.

No. The verse you allude to, but do not quote, in Mt 18:15-17 is a process for the local church. This is not that. Matthew 18 is often abused and misapplied. Here is clarity on the matter for you, http://themelios.thegospelcoalition.org/article/editorial-on-abusing-matthew-18

To conclude I am suspicious of DJ but would frankly like to see what he either would say in defence/rebuttal or see if he would repent/declare apostacy. This will never happen if he is not directly confronted.

He has been directly confronted, by pastor Justin Peters. While we would all be curious as to how that conversation might have gone, since you take Matthew 18 as applicable in this matter (which would be error) then the verse says to go to him privately. Therefore any conversation held between two private parties would not be your business. Right?

We’d all like to see him repent of his apostasy. While it is always desirable, it is unlikely to happen. Jude 1:4, 2 Peter 2:1, Rev 2:21, 2 Tim 4:3…

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS. I had been reading David Jeremiah for a while, and though I have found many of his teachings to be biblically sound I have had a few problems with him. Such as never (as far as I can tell) speaking out against Rome, not speaking out strongly enough against homosexuality and not speaking out against prosperity preachers. I really had no idea that he was practically on the side of prosperity teaching until just today. Lord in Jesus' name I am sorry and will never follow him again save that he repents. I am not sure I will be able to talk my husband into getting rid of the books we have of his, but at worst we wont get any thing more of his. Anybody ever notice he uses the WORST bibles too???

Some close to me I know very well talks about DJ all the time. I borrowed some CD to listen to him. I have only heard 3 of these CD's. I always like to be careful on who I listen to and try to find out what they are about. That is why I looked him up and found this blog. These comments I have read most of them as it is interesting to me in scripture and in teaching who we learn from. Always reading and praying for wisdom when I read the bible seems to be the best way. One should be care of calling one a false prophet. All Christians should do there checks on the church they attend as well as how the church is led. Don't take anyone's teaching with out searching the scriptures yourself, when you do the holy spirit will reveal himself and lead you on the right path. My point is do your own research in the scriptures no matter who preached or taught the message. I will continue to Listen to DJ on this series I started as well as read the scriptures he use and research what other Teachers say about this topic. We all as believers and non believers should read the END OF THE AGE Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Be ready and continue to grow in Christ.

Anonymous, thank you for your diligence! Everything you said is correct and I agree with. It's all I can ask is that someone consider what is said here,test it against the scripture and go forward based on the Bible and their conscience. Thanks.

E.P.:do you have a link or citation or proof that Billy Graham said what you quoted him as saying?Also, even if you do, does one incorrect statement disqualify what he has stood for and worked for his whole life? I see a man who has kept the faith, not denied anything, not fallen away, like Templeton. The Bible says you shall know them by their works, and B.G. worked in the harvest field till he wasn't able to anymore. (I never heard of you till I read this blog. Not that fame is any qualifier OR disqualifier in itself.) Are you sure you have the right to say that it was all bunk?

The first mention of Graham's false statements IS a link. That brings you to a transcript of him saying it with the name of program in which he said it. Did you click on that link? Did you read it? Did you follow up on your own as a Berean would do? :)

The verse you mentioned but did not quote isn't "you shall know them by their works". That is incorrect. Ephesians 5:11 shows us there are fruitless works, which would define Graham. The correct quote is from Mt 7:16, "You shall know them by their fruit. Here is a good and credible speech comparing Graham's fruit from a 1950s Crusade in Harringay London to nowadays, see what came of it. The Pastor also looks at other things Graham said he believes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btVPQOQvnG4&index=4&list=WL

We don't see someone working for a long time and conclude that they must not be false. Length of service is no barometer of accuracy in their Gospel works.

I understand you would want to test what I said because Graham is well known and I am not. That's good. You can certainly go ahead and research it.

You're right, we don't indict a man based on one statement, as damaging as that is in demonstrating his foundational ignorance of the entire point of the Gospel. However, Graham has said the same in every decade of his life since the 1960s. He said it in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s. I have researched this personally and the results of my research are at the end in the link.

So I do have good assurance based on my careful research that Graham's works were not of light but of darkness. I wouldn't have said so otherwise, but I don't take offense, because you don't know me and lots of people online make baseless accusations. Thank you for asking.

Did you ever wonder why all the world loves Billy Graham? He is massively popular, the most admired man in the world a staggering 51 times. The world loves Graham more than the world loved JESUS. Think about that. It reminds of of Luke 6:26, "woe to you scribes and pharisees, when all men speak well of you, as did the false prophets."

I hope I have satisfied your question about whether I had a base and reasoning for saying what I did about Billy Graham. I did. I welcome you to do your own research now that you have been alerted to this situation. If you care to, that is, it's not for me to say what you should do. But since you demonstrated interest, I point you back to the link above and the link in this comment, and this piece which contains links back to their original sources as a start for you.http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2014/11/billy-graham-wolf-who-offers-only.html

E.P.Thank you for your polite reply. Yes, I did not use quotes, hence I said 'works', not "fruit". They are the same, although fruit include a broader scope of virtues, gifts, etc. "Self-control" is a fruit, but not a work, but helping a widow in her distress is both. Anyway, yes, now I read your link, and have this to say:Despite those quotes and transcript, Rev. Graham has preached many times that Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life". And almost in every sermon, he has said something to the effect that "you may be a good person; you may have gone to church every Sunday, sat in the pew...." etc. etc, and yet end by saying that they still need salvation. I've heard him say this scores of times. So as far as "being saved by being good", HE HAS NEVER MAINTAINED THAT. The 'wider mercy' issue is a separate one.

Anyway, I do not think one must have perfect doctrine to bear fruit or to be eventually acknowledged by Christ as "good and faithful servant". In your last post, cited at the end, you call B.G. a "wolf" for some of his less than orthodox statements. There are good biblical reasons to think infant baptism is okay (e.g. Acts 2:38,39), just like infant circumcision. The churches I have been to that practice it did not maintain that it SAVES them, but stated clearly that they may well grow up to be covenant-breakers, just like some OT Jews became when adults, despite circumcision. So to use this as evidence to label him a 'wolf' is extreme. Likewise, I am NOT a universalist. But if a universalist trusts solely on the blood of Christ as his OWN hope for eternal clemency, then that 'heretic' himself will be saved, even though those he had hoped for won't be, and despite erroneous doctrine.Re: B.G. you wrote, he "diverts seekers from Christ". Here I am tempted to sarcasm, but I will resist. But that's not what I witnessed all those years. And to be bold enough to say Billy Graham's "works...were of darkness" may be risking the sin of Pharisees in Matthew 12. Have you no fear???

I never said that Billy Graham teaches that we must be good to be saved. Nope. I never said that solely if one believes in infant baptism one is a wolf. You are doing a very good job of producing polite sounding straw men. You accuse me by saying "have you no fear", while you are Mr or Mrs nameless anonymous, making straw arguments and misdirects on the internet. I'm afraid this reduces your credibility by astounding amounts.

To the point and let's be clear, Billy Graham teaches and believes that Muslims and pagans etc who do not know Christ are saved and will be in heaven.

That was the quote on which we began this fruitless conversation. Just because you like to dismiss the wider mercy issue does not mean that it is incidental to the foundational tenets of salvation. It is rather the entire point. The gate is narrow sir, not wide.

Billy Graham, when asked about that teaching, said he has always believed it since 1960. BG is an ecumenical universalist, and by definition, universalism and Christianity are mutually exclusive.