The blog of Aaron "Sleazy" Elias

With Women, Your Reward for Success is Working Harder and Paying More

You’re horny and you want to get laid. Because you know what matters for short-term sexual attraction, you work out and dress well. Thus, you spend a lot of time, energy, and money to look good so that one of the girls at the local club decides to spread her legs for you. You think you do well. You approach women, and just a relatively small number because you know your audience and you can sense which women are into you.

Okay, you got the girl. After making the effort of approaching her and sexually escalating all the way to sex you now get to bang her. Think about it: how many calories do you burn as opposed to her? Assuming she’s not doing a rendition of a dead fish and only lies on her back letting you plow her but instead she pushes her pelvis back rhythmically to add to the effect of the hard thrusts of your massive cock, you can safely say that even a woman who makes a lot of effort in bed does not do nearly as much as a guy who jackhammers her hard. The effort of that is certainly also a lot more than the occasional squat on your dick the rare woman does for a bit before she wants you to take over again.

To get laid you not only have to work hard on yourself. Instead, once you get to the goal, you have to work a lot harder than her during sex as well. Compared to jerking off or using a Fleshlight, you have to put in a fucking lot of effort. What will she have to do to get to that point? In this day and age, a woman who wants to be very desirable for a one-night stand should not be ugly. Assuming she was born with a reasonably cute face, which is out of her control, she only has to not be fat. If she’s able to resist sticking her hands in the cookie jar every hour and does a modicum of physical activity, say, 30 minutes on the treadmill three times a week, she’s well above average. If she wants to really stand out, she has to lift a few baby weights (5 lbs.) to get toned. Her clothes aren’t so important either. If she wants to get laid, then it’s enough if she squeezes her tight body into some cheap rags bought at H&M or some other discounter. Guys really don’t care about how much she spends on clothes — quite unlike some girls who will raise an eyebrow if you’re wearing a Seiko instead of a Rolex. There is really no equivalent to girls sizing up guys based on perceived wealth.

Your philandering days are over. Now you want to date and have a girlfriend. Excellent! If you do well on dates, you get to go on more dates. This means that you get to spend lots and lots of money, and lots more money as time goes on. Even if you’re a cheap dater and she’s relatively frugal, she likely won’t go Dutch. You’re going to foot the bill. Your reward for dating well is a neverending stream of bills. Of course, if you’re a really big spender, you have to buy her dresses, vacations, and cosmetic operations, but let’s assume you’re sane. No matter how you will turn it, you are going to spend a lot more money than her. For her to do well at dating, she only has to look good and be nice.

Your dating goes well. You now have a girlfriend. She now wants to move in with you. Oh, the comfortable studio apartment you like so much isn’t good enough for her? Too bad, bucko, time to move out and get a bigger place. You’ve got the money, right? With your typical Western woman, having a relationship means that your once formidable disposable income will be cut down to a much more manageable amount. After all, while you were single you had so much money you didn’t know what to do with it. Thankfully, she’s solving that problem for you.

Cohabitating is well and good, but eventually it gets old for her. What she really wants is a bunch of kids, or at least one to justify staying at home, never to work again. In the likely case that she’ll divorce you, she’ll claim that she would easily have become CEO of Google, but instead she sacrificed her great career for you and “your kid”. Her having “the most important job in the world”, i.e. parking the kid in front of the TV while she swipes right on every Tyrone and Jamal who wants to pound her aging pussy is surely more important than your humdrum job that pays for her life of leisure.

Getting divorce-raped is the worst possible outcome for your finances. But even if you’re among the lucky men who will get a great conservative woman (hey, why not start playing the lottery, too?), your sacrifices won’t end. You got the prize: a wife who holds the fort and raises your kids. What’s your sacrifice? It’s your time, money, and freedom. As a single guy living a minimalist lifestyle, it is entirely plausible to retire in your 40s on an average job. Heck, you can take it even easier and get some part-time job you enjoy. At that point, you’ll be done with life if you don’t have any lofty aspirations. You’d also have the comfort of declining a promotion because you don’t want to trade an increase in stress, time and responsibilities for a bit more money, of which you have more than enough already.

How is Joe Schmoe doing if he wants to have a family? He’s likely going to work himself into an early grave. This is more of an issue in the US than in (Continental) Europe, but the cost of raising a family is truly staggering. You need a bigger place, kids may need to be sent to private schools because your leftist politicians used the tax money to finance illegal immigration instead of public education, and then there’s the eye-watering cost of college. I hope you really enjoy your job. Oh, and even if you’re not a minimalist, it surely would help if you were. In the end, your reward for success with women or success in life according to traditionalism is a life of fiscal slavery. Some slaves are happy. Most are not.

52 thoughts on “With Women, Your Reward for Success is Working Harder and Paying More”

…Good post, and you forgot to mention the important elephant-in-the-room which is: the majority of women now adays will not give guys any attention or time-of-day in the first damn place. Even though I’m a better catch than most guys out there (I’m in better shape, better looking, dress better than 95% of guys out there), this shit has plagued me. I still have yet to get 1 lay or even 1 friggin date to this day,.. yet I’ve seen ugly, pathetic unattractive women somehow be able to have lots of men trying to get her.

There is still a bit of a taboo on it. Personally i don’t give any more value to the average Western woman. They are all whores to me anyway. Escorts are open and honest about their price. They won’t give you drama. And after sex she’ll leave you alone. Dating Western women is just not worth it to me. It’s often more expensive than an escort. And it totally sucks. And simply picking up women isn’t without risks. Women can become very vindictive when they don’t get what they want. If she has any regrets about the sex you can expect drama at the very least. If you’re unlucky she’ll call it rape. And you’ll be in real trouble. You don’t have all that bullshit with escorts. I would say that escorts just have a better cost/benefit ratio in most cases. And if you are looking for something more serious. You’ll be better off looking outside the Western world. The average Western woman is simply not worth her asking price. With an escort you’ll get what you pay for.

This article basically rhymes with a lot of the MGTOW media I’ve been consuming lately. I’m actually in a relationship 2.5 year and I’m already planning my get away.

So anyway, Sleazy, I’m curious as to how your open views on this subject matter affects your relationship with your gal? If you don’t have the time or the desire to post here, then I’d actually be interested in booking a consult to discuss future plans for myself in these regards. Not to mention the curiousity to pick your brain a bit about what you may or may not be planning for your future.

Jon: (Retiring early at 40 is for losers without ambition.)
Not all ambitions are work related. I’m basically retired already. I make enough money on the stock market. I don’t need to work a day job. That doesn’t mean i sit on my ass all day. Or that i’ll never do anything productive. The only difference is that i have earned the freedom to do whatever i want to do. I just remodelled my sisters house. Now starting to remodel my own house. I’m preparing to move to Thailand. I’m starting a hole new life there. And i have plenty ambitions when i’m there. And they are all my own ambitions. Not the ambitions of a company or corp. Because that’s what most working people do. They work to realise the ambitions of someone else. Instead of their own. The same go’s for men in relationships. As Aaron is pointing out in the article above. And it’s a sad thing. Millions of men wasting their life’s working for everyone but themselves. Fuck that! I have my own dreams! I live for myself. Not to serve everyone else.

“Retiring early at 40 is for losers without ambition.”
–> Depends..if retiring means checking out with no savings and living hand-to-mouth on welfare…that would be the case

“Real men strive for the heros journey, which is working until age 100 and dutifully pay taxes and make the wife and kids happy.”
–> Ever heard of the “Company Man”… and the risk of Karōshi (過労死) or “guolaosi” (过劳死), i.e. death from overwork?

Is it heroic to pay taxes? To work for a company that can drop you the moment you’re unprofitable (or automated-able)? Let us know.

“Here lies a man who worked forever at Acme Ltd and loved it” is inscribed on NO tombstone EVER.

Dada, im definately no troll. In fact, only fascists tend to accuse me of trolling. Are you a fascist? I hope not. Fascism is very bad.

I may have not explained properly. I think nk the vast majority of men will be unhappy if they dont strive to be the best in whatever they do. Hypothetical plans like purposefully acting mediocre to pay lower taxes I think is bound to fail and make most men unhappy, just like crazy ideas like mgtow. Yin and yang, man, without women, is nothing. Marrying and kids, paying taxes by working is what will make us happy, im sure of it.

It is harder to do now because lazy rich capitalists crashed the economy, thats why i called it a heros journey. Real men persevere despite challenges and never give up.

Striving to be the best at sucking is a lousy lifes goal. Besides if one is the best its only a matter of time before its others who serve you instead of you serving others.
Yes, im talking about myself here… Sort of. Being at the top has its rewards.

But anyways, if you never tried on your deathbed you will always be. What if! If only I persevered

I agree with your premises whole heartedly even though I don’t agree on your conclusion with you. There are isolated Chinese tribes where everyone has sex with everyone yet, when a child is born to a woman in the tribe, they are taken care of by the older women of the tribe and its mother. The fathers has no real interest beyond fucking her/them. Now I understand that post agricultural and property carrying societies such as ours can’t have that way of life in that form in its entirety. However, it is important to at least note the coolness of their way of life in those Chinese tribes I mentioned above.

Even though, one would not be hard pressed to find that no woman agrees to that arrangement in our culture. Where women that don’t put out without legal guarantee of a life time of expenses made in advance and the wired idea of monogamy for the men let alone women. You’d not have difficulty in seeing how such a situation can be arranged in our culture as well. Provided you want to have children and that is important to you to the exclusion of everything else that is really important. You are an idiot if you think you want children under the current climate but lets leave that argument for another day.

My point for children or rather for not having them is, barring any scientific advance in longevity research, you aren’t going to know much about your grand children let alone children. You’d be dead before you know whether they went to prison for life for murder or they became a professor of everything or anything in between. But lets say you are an anxious and impulsive impetuous idiot who don’t care about himself and his selfish desires like thinking what he’s getting out of helping society propagate further (having children) you should at least think about having a of kid(s) with less shortcomings/disadvantages. Like in the case where you don’t succumb your freedom to monogamy and succumb your good finances, good lifestyle, great ambitions and the whole gamut to marriage and children. To the heck with marriage. Its a method for women to get more money out of you (life time of expenses) that they don’t deserve (hypergamy).

If you are curious about my method (no practical implementation on my part yet its been tried a million times by other and therefore is valid) about how to have children in wedlock and not pay the price of wedlock. You’d be well served with the three words below.

Competition; You should keep yourself from succumbing to oneities by having women compete over your. (Easier than you think)

Income; Don’t have a higher income than your spouse on paper. Although, you’d need accountants to get this done, which follows that you are actually richer than her/them. (for example, a Ahem-irrevocable-ahem-trust) This way, you aren’t going to be liable for child support.

Prenup+Divorce; Plan your prenup (obviously) and divorce (less obviously to idiots) before getting married. Don’t fool yourself thinking that you are marrying for love when she’s marrying your for the advance guarantee that you’ll pay for her for her life time expenses. (Try suggesting that she pay into a contract that gives you sole control over both your assets if you don’t believe me and you’d understand and if not the prenup shouldn’t be a problem either) suggest that you even have the papers ready in a file when you get married so you have a timeline. Where in about three years you divorce the cunt. I mean mother of your children.

Disclaimer; I am not liable for anything about you. So don’t use the above inform without professional guidance. This shit is for information purposes only. Your milage may vary. This is not any kind of advice. I wan’t to cover my ass more so than help you so, I have purposefully withheld certain information.

That’s an interesting comment. One issue with referring to customs in various tribes is precisely that: they are tribes and didn’t manage to evolve into more complex societies. The same is true for tribal societies no matter where you look.

Don: Your Prenup+Divorce Plan sucks. Prenups are very easy to get thrown out in court. There mostly worthless to men. And hiding assets in a trust fund isn’t going to work anymore. They already closed that loophole. Earning less on paper won’t mean you won’t pay child support. Just no alimony. Child support is in theory owned to the child and not the mother. Marriage is dangerous and unnecessary. You’ll have to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life. Even money made after the divorce isn’t save anymore for greedy ex-wife’s. And the divorce case can be reopened when the woman claims you were hiding assets. If the judge sees any trust fund he will assume you’re cheating the system. The judge will give her everything she asks for. It would be cheaper and saver to simply pay a woman in a third world country to have your children. If that’s your only goal anyway. You can’t Alpha the system.

ben: You might be right. However, I am sure not having money on paper by using the methods I said can be useful like I said. But I didn’t particularly include certain details so lets agree to disagree for now.

Your solution is also interesting yet inadequate. Because, you didn’t address the problem of asian women getting more and more greedy with time like the western women.

Dom: I’m talking about a surrogate mother. You don’t engage into a long-term relationship with her. You just pay her to have your child. You just take the baby home and raise it without her. I wouldn’t do it personally. But it’s better than trying to cheat the system. You’re playing with fire when you sign a marriage contract. And hope you’ll come out on top with the divorce. And why sign a marriage contract? When she can just sign your name on the birth certificate. The marriage contract is not a positive if you want to leave her anyway. If it’s just about having a child. Just pay a surrogate. Gay people do it all the time. It’s a proven method. And not that expensive. I know a MGTOW who’s planning to do this. He’s using a surrogate mother and a donor egg. All professionally handled in a lab. So it’s a bit more expensive. But still affordable.

As far as I know, surrogates in third world Asian countries don’t use a donor egg. Instead, you bang that chick until she’s pregnant. This strikes me as a much more natural method than the sterile approach that is common in the West. On top, it is a lot cheaper.

Dont be naive ben.this sounds like a theoretical plan only a mgtow can think of that doesnt work in practice. Because im pretty sure biological mothers can always demand their property back at any time and infertile and gay couples probably agree with me that this can always happen.

Imo the only way to be sure of a happy marriage with kids is ask the wife what will make her happy and overdeliver on your promises. I suggest using consent forms or contracts if youre unsure at first. There is just no shortcut to making your wife happy. You cant be lazy, you gotta listen to her once in a while, use your head, ben. You gotta truly commit to excellence. Become a real man that is able to please his wife. Real men first thing when they wake up think, how can i make my wife happy? Its a neverending process, not a goal that after achieving it you can laze around. You gotta man up everyday.

Aaron: Thats mostly how it go’s. But there are also companies that provide laboratory services. In this way you can have a larger choice in genetics. You could have a egg from a blonde with blue eyes or whatever you like. Doesn’t need to be Asian. It’s the closest thing there is to designer baby’s. It’s more expensive than just paying a poor Asian girl without a doubt. It’s mostly used by gay men and Western couples. But you could do it by yourself if you would want to. (I don’t support the practice. I personally believe a child belongs with both biological parents) Just saying it would be a better plan than trying to beat the system in a divorce. Both methods would be better. Doesnt matter if you pay a girl or a company. Betting on the family court ruling in your favour isn’t smart. And is probably going to cost more. And it’s not even certain that you can even see the child.

Aaron: I think that it would be better to look for a more traditional non Western woman. And just settle outside the Western world. When people really want children. They should think about the child’s needs first. Trying to defraud a woman in having a child. Or paying for a surrogate isn’t in the child’s best interest. I believe a child needs a traditional family to grow up. So i wouldn’t advice either method. It’s not fair to do that to a child. If you want to be selfish (like me). You shouldn’t have children.

Don: I know your name. Just typo. Pretty funny one. DOM means stupid in dutch. Purely accidental i swear. Nothing personal. Not trying to bash you because i disagree or whatever. Just a funny typo. Specially when you react with “stupid isn’t my name”

Jon: Adoptive parents have rights too. There are many contracts involved. And in both situations the guy would be the biological father. If you use the donor egg method the girl isn’t technically the biological mother. Again! I don’t advice nor support these things. But it’s better than trying to trick a woman into having a child. With the goal to divorce her and trying to cheat the system.

When it comes to making your wife happy. You should ask what the child needs first. Many women divorce their husbands because they are not happy. And it’s the children who pay the price. You should think about these things before you have children. When you have children, you lose the right to be selfish. A child needs a traditional family. That doesn’t mean you have to practice tyranny over your wife.
But both man and woman have a role. It’s what’s best for the child.

Jon: Seriously what do you know about these things? I already have lived married life. And i already raised a boy on my own. (not my own child). It’s hard. Specially when you’re on your own and have a career. I did my best and he’s doing great. But i couldn’t give him everything he needed. He needed both his parents to stop being stupid and selfish. But they didn’t. So i stept in and did what i could. But that boy will always have a hole in his life. He go’s to university, has good grades, has his own apartment, works a part time job, has a beautiful girlfriend. He’s doing great. But he does suffer inside. Because his parents are selfish. Thinking about what makes them happy. And not all children have a uncle who steps in when their parents screw up. Many children suffer because of this generation of selfish parents. Specially selfish Western women that want it all.

Ben, Im going to teach you what your father should have taught you ages ago.
Real men dont blame others when things dont work out, they can only blame themselves for not doing enough.

I see a lot of blame game with you ben likewise aaron. Its always somebody elses fault, like some selfish woman, the government, society, never yourself.

Stop that now, grow up and become a real man. Blame yourself for being weak to internalized misogyny and fascism. For not having worked enough on having a strong mind. For wasting time on things that dont matter instead of cultivating.

Since the conversation went in the direction of children, I think I should pronounce my idea about having children here. I prefer to not have them. What do I get in return for having them? Happiness? Please.

Jon: I’m just tired of cleaning up other people’s mess. And working to please other people. Now it’s my turn to be selfish. Now it’s my turn to get what i want. I have given enough. How am i a criminal? Because i say mean things about women? Boho cry me a river. You’re not the one cleaning up their mess. And this guy was probably right. Most police women can’t do the job. He’s just stupid to say it in her face. You claim you’re against fascism. But you have no problem with government overreach. Punishing people for speech is stupid. They let rapists walk free. There are no go zones popping up everywhere. But they threatening a guy with jail time because he hurts a woman’s feelings. And than they wonder why people don’t respect the police. And why they hate the government. It just proofs that their priorities are totally fucked up. They should clean up those no go zones. Instead of giving traffic tickets. Until they do that, no one will take them seriously.

Ok, you got a superficial sister who picks a superficial friend. OK I understand that superficial ppl destroy lives around them. Superficiality is not a virtue. But thats why we humans should strive to not be superficial. But instead of dating women like these with good personalities.http://www.yossiloloi.com/portfolio/fullbeauty-project/
you turn around and generalize ONE instance to ALL women, then promote mgtow and stereotype women like fascists do. This logic does not follow at all!

Ben… just wtf! are you thinking!It looks to me like your choosing fascism on purpose and prefer going to prison, but freaking whyyy??? Who would choose fascism and prison over freedom? Right now I almost feel like your trolling me, nobody can honestly think as crazy like this. Is this the Twilight Zone…

But, just incase your telling the truth, Ill explain why overbearing government is not bad. its extreme rightwing propaganda that small government is best. Take China for example. they are no implementing something called sesame credit which is about government entering lives more and more and it looks like it will lead to an even better peaceful prosperous China.
Also keep in mind China does not have democracy or freedom of speech and no fascism, which western countries do. The logical conclusion is that by limiting democracy like Brexit and limiting freedom of speech and giving governments more power we can “smash the fash”. Look at the USA, for a country that is heading the wrong way. Ben, do you want an utopia, without racism, sexism and fascism but overbearing government or do you want a fascist dystopia?

Jon: (Its always somebody elses fault, like some selfish woman) I’m talking about my own biological sister here. I love my sister. But her stupid and selfish choices have caused a lot of trouble. She got knocked up by chad and has a child. Chad isn’t a great father (big surprise) She finally gets her life in order with the help of me and our father. Fast forward 15 years. Her son 15yo is standing crying on my doorstep. Asking me if he can live with me. Because mom’s new boyfriend is a abusive a-hole. I take him in. And my sister’s dog because her boyfriend doesn’t like her dog either. So now i was burdened with taking care of a traumatised 15yo boy and a dog. I stayed single, childless and without pets for a reason. I’m taking care of the mess she created. Surprise she gets pregnant again. Few years later she leaves him. And i’m just done remodelling her new home. For both her and her daughter. Don’t you think i have some justification for complaining about this type of behaviour?

Jon: It would be easy for me to blame the men in her life. But the painful truth is that she picks those guys. My sister is a Christina Applegate dubbelganger. (no bullshit) She could have chosen almost every guy she wanted. But she chosen these pretty boy fuck up’s and abusive a holes. And leaves her family to deal with the fallout. And i helped her like a brother is supposed to do. And i took care of her son for almost 6 years. And i have seen the hurt her behaviour have caused to her son. And that’s why i condemn that typical Western women behaviour. Not only is it ruining men’s lives and society. It’s destroying the lives of their children. I have been hurt by women in the past. But my personal pain is nothing compared to what that boy was going through. And it pisses me off. I love my sister. But i will not turn a blind eye for this behaviour. And i will call this behaviour out for what it is. Stupid and selfish!

@Aaron: “As far as I know, surrogates in third world Asian countries don’t use a donor egg. Instead, you bang that chick until she’s pregnant. This strikes me as a much more natural method than the sterile approach that is common in the West. On top, it is a lot cheaper.”

There was an article about how some late 30’s woman (very s-m-a-r-t) froze her eggs so she could focus on her career and conceive a child later…except…the eggs didn’t survive when she decided to use them in her mid-40’s. (Oh, and she was gonna be a single mom because she couldn’t find Mr. Right.)

That’s a great article! I chuckled when the author referred to women around 40 as “young”. There is also something deeply disturbing about a woman who should be a grandmother instead only takes care of her own brood, which is the result of donor sperm and six figures spent on freezing eggs, thawing them, and subsequent IVF.

jon: My sister is just a typical Western woman. She complains about men not manning up. While she doesn’t like it when anyone tells her what to do. She works a management job. And pride herself on being a successful independent woman. But other people are cleaning up her mess. And she failed at being a mother. I don’t like to criticise my own sister. But i think this is where most rightwing people go rong. You can’t run a family where the man is expected to have a traditional role. While we let our women play the independent woman routine. It doesn’t work. We need to get our women back in the traditional role too. Otherwise it’s the children who suffer. It’s hard to criticise the ones we love. But we need to do it so our people and culture can have a future. And my message to women is simple. I’m not interested in a modern Western woman. And i will no longer enable your destructive behaviour. I’m out!

jon: Maybe you should google fascism. I doubt you understand the concept. While you’re at it, look up the word freedom. Even in a jailcel i would have more freedom than you will ever have. Because my mind is free. And yours is not. I rather die standing up, than live on my knees. If speaking the truth makes me a criminal. Than so be it. How can you even call it freedom. If every move you make. Every word you speak. And every thought you have. Is dictated by someone else. Thats something i could never except. Thats a life not worth living.

Ben, I think YOU should google fascism. You want to oppress women so much and you claim your free, in prison. LOL, your trolling is just too obvious. I should not entertain you, but I feel I should try to educate you a bit more, because theres something you dont understand. You see, fascism is something that implodes on its own, because its BS. Oppressing others, minorities, women, non-binary genders and all works only for a short while, but afterwards you have to create a system where everybody is happy to have it be sustainable. And women were not happy. You call yourself going mgtow, but actually its wgtow, because they had enough of the abuse, so they became feminists. Its ironic because this whole wgtow and mgtow leads to fascism self-destructing, because no children will be indoctrinated anymore. Its the silver lining, I was thinking of an original way using my high IQ to combat fascism and thought of sterilization or taking the children away to government foster homes, unfortunately I thought it wouldnt work in practice, but this whole mgtow, which you made up in your own mind as a choice you took for self-preservation of your ego, solves the problem of fascism reproducing without us normal ppl needing to do anything.

You still have some growing up to do, to become a real man that takes responsibility ond dont blame others. You are behaving very similar to the creepy Don guy lately. I should have known. This guy is like my archnemesis, the complete opposite in every way, Copied my name, then says all these sociopathic things about women. Guys a total creep and he must have influenced you to return to fascism. Although at first I thought he was just a harmless troll, seeing how irrationally you behave right now, he must have done something else, like triggering something inside you. My advice is not to interact with that guy at all anymore.

P.S. ben, fascism is bad because nobody has the right to oppress anybody else. you say Im caged because I dont want to oppress anybody then call yourself free cause you are free to oppress. What insane definition of freedom is that? So Germans in WW2 were free because they had the freedom to oppress Jews? Just crazy, these rationalizations of oppression. You should not want to oppress anybody! Real freedom is not freedom TO oppress, it is freedom FROM oppression.

Also one bad apple does not make a rule. Just because Im extremely smart asian guy does not mean all asian guys are smart. Same still goes for your sister.

” it is entirely plausible to retire in your 40s on an average job. Heck, you can take it even easier and get some part-time job you enjoy. At that point, you’ll be done with life if you don’t have any lofty aspirations”

Not sure if this was said to iterate the point of financial slavery of choosing the other option but I’d argue that checking out of life at 40 will be just as unrewarding as doing it at any time, the reason being people like purpose and get depressed without it. If retiring is to pursue some greater goal or to focus on passions then great, thats fantastic, but if your checking out into a life of hedonism I would argue this is will not end well for most people. I would argue for your average person that getting cucked by responsibly is better as alot of people, atlas in my experience, do not posses the will to create there own purpose and rely on a 9-5, kids and a wife to do it for them which I think is fair. Personally at this point in time I have enough purpose to not have a need for those things but maybe in a decade when I’m in my thirties it might hit hard. I suspect this is the case for a lot of people but maybe thats just cause they give up idk.

> I would argue for your average person that getting cucked by responsibly is better as alot of people, atlas in my experience, do not posses the will to create there own purpose and rely on a 9-5, kids and a wife to do it for them which I think is fair.

Perfect, they can get cucked all they want. Nobody cares about them. Even their kids won’t visit them on their death bed most likely.

Well it’s Iike a train wreck…you can’t avoid engaging with it. But yes better to just not engage in debate with @jon… Yet “he” does serve a useful purpose…I realize I’m not crazy or retarded when people like @jon are out there.

Don: Ya i know. But he did open a discussion i think people should have. (Not with Jon.) But i think it’s important that people realise the real damage Western women inflict to those close to them. I’m MGTOW and still i’m cleaning up the mess. We always talk about bad relationships and the sluts that we fucked or didn’t fuck. But what to do when the Women in our own families fuck up. Walking away from your mother or sister is often even harder than walking away from a bad relationship. What to do with these Women?

Don: The discussion also seems to fit the topic. I didn’t mess up my life. Yet still i have to work hard because of the women in my life. Even when you try to avoid romantic relationships. Men often still pay the price for women. Either because of mothers and sisters fucking up. Or with paying taxes when the government gives women bail outs. Either way it seems that successful men are punished for it. It means you’re first in line to pay for the screw up’s of these so called independent women.

Shaking my head: (but she also talked about in her twenties she had an abortion…I had to wonder if this factors in a woman’s fertility/infertility down the road.) It can be a problem, doesn’t have to. There are women that become infertile after abortion. The more interesting factor is the mental gymnastics. It’s only a baby if the woman wants it to be a baby. Otherwise it’s just a fetus. And that abortion is glorified. Downsides don’t seem to exist in the feminist mind. Until they are undeniable. Abortion is not without risk. And many women later regret having them. But feminist don’t want to talk about those things. It conflicts with their ideology. So women that suffer from the negative side of abortion are tossed aside and silenced.