first off i do not care if you bait or use food plots but when it comes to public land, if im not mistaken you can not plow and land up with a drag or plow so that makes planting a successful food plot pretty much impossible on public land. i do not bait or plant food plots and have hunted public land all my life and have had pretty good success in taken mature deer. It all comes down to being willing to let those 2.5 and some times 3.5 year olds walk and hope they can make it through. killing mature deer all comes down to how much time and effort you are willing to put in. Sure crossbows give you a slight advantage over a compound but it all comes down to what kind of hunter you are. Every hunter is different and i am fine with that

bullwinkle wrote:Kellroy - you make some good points but I completely disagree with you regarding crossbows not being like rifles

I practice my bow almost every week to stay proficient. In 3D tourney, I am normally in the top 3. Pretty decent shot for an old guy. I have shot a crossbow twice. I outshot my bow!!!! With little practice they are very easy to shoot - just like a rifle. I agree on the range and the one shot but don't think this is the same challenge as bowhunting

I have the ultimate respect for long bows and recurves - they are a serious step up from compounds

If it is just about killing deer. He is a very easy way:

Build a stand with a shooting rail 18-20 yards from your bait. Put the stand in a pine tree with very small shooting lanes to protect your cover. Make sure you think through wind direction and where the deer will approach from

Put the bait up against a back drop so they have to face away from you

Put out enough corn to be eaten everyday. Whether is is 1 gallon or two, try to make them want to come first. Time it in the middle of the day so they move early. Add a little molassas if you want to make it real attractive. Molassas is cheap

There is the recipe. You can have your tag filled opening weekend. Trust me, I did when I was young - I killed things but it wasn't really a challenge or much of a sport. I am not too proud of it to be honest

Please don't compare food plotting to baiting. It would take me a book to write down what I do now for my hunting experience, habitate development and deer hunting.

Bullwinkle, that is almost funny. I started with recurve, then long bow, then compound, then crossbow. Not because it was easier, but because as my skill grew, I could get into places, near deer, I could not before. My woodscraft was being tested, not just my aim. Yes, I could do as you suggest, and build a killing range to your design, if I chose to be that kind of hunter, just as you could hunt from within a 1-3 acre pen, and be just as legal. neither would be ethical in my mind. My feeder, serves the same purpose as your food plot, it is to give the deer a reason to stick around the area. it is a lure. You can call it nourishment, or enhancers, or food crop. it doesn't matter, it serves the same in the end. They only real difference, it your food is planted, and mine is placed. Your's is the better draw in fact, for no feeder will ever pull deer from standing corn, or a good food plot. They hit a feeder, when they do not have a better choice. There is more skill needed for the shot itself with a bow, that's true (assuming the crossbow has been properly tuned, and sighted in.) but the shot alone, is not all there is to the hunt. In fact, while the shot placement is important, and the judgement of the hunter is tested, The shot is but a small part of the hunt itself. I've hunted with a bent stick, and a bootlace, with knife cut arrows, and been successful, I've hunted rabbits with a spear, just to see if it could be done, and succeeded (barely/ got one rabbit all day) I hunt rabbits and squirrels with a slingshot now, because it is silent, when setting up for a drive. So don't make the mistake that I take the easy route. I don't. i hunt with crossbow, (primarily) because I feel it is more lethal and hence, more humane. IF I take the shot, it dies quickly, not drawn out over hours, and miles. (been there/ done that) I'm a meat hunter, and I'm working to fill a freezer, that much is true, but it cost me the same for processing for a button buck as a fourteen point buck, so shooting small ones is a stupid move, unless you are hungry NOW. And does taste better anyways. We get only one buck each year, no matter how it is taken. bow, crossbow, or gun. (shotgun here/ shorter distance) and several does, So we are very picky about what bucks we take. We both COULD hunt in ways we choose not to. You COULD hunt your food plots as a killing ground, by simply fencing it, and leaving the gates wide at night. Push a button, and all the gates close together, and then just push the deer to the far end and start shooting. (It would be legal, but hardly ethical) But you wouldn't consider that hunting, anymore than I would do as you suggested. legal, or not. crossbow is just a tool, how it is used, is up to the wielder, just as your bow is just a tool. The hunt, is in your heart, your mind, and your eye, your judgement, your training, your ethics, and lastly in your equipment.

The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

I would really like the to see the crossbow age lowered to at least 55. I am 60 years old and have been bowhunting since 1976, the year after I was discharged from the Navy and gun hunting since 1965. I have arthritis in my left shoulder and neck and have had knee surgury on both my knees. I own 130 acres in South Central Wisconin, the farm I grew up on and I still bow hunt and gun hunt. But not as often or as hard as I used to. I am not trying to get the " Poor, Poor, Me" thing but as you get older all the "pieces and parts" just don't work like they did when I was 30 or 40 or even 50 years of age. It is not all about those slob crossbow hunters shooting everydeer they see ( I have seen my share of slob bowhunters and gun hunters over the years ) to me it's more about giving older bowhunters a chance to stay in the woods and hunt. The past 2 or 3 years I have been debating myself whether to hang up the bow or give it one more year, so far the one more year has come out on top but one of these years I won't be able to do it and that won't be a fun fall. I think being able to hunt with a crossbow would increase the number of "Hunting years" I have left.

Kellory - if you are really as good as you say, you are clearly an exception. There is no way most of the people attracted to this new law will be as saavy as you

Richard - fully support lowering the age to 55. Your situation is completely acceptable and respected

Bullwinkle, I've been a hunter since i was a child, and I'm pushing 50. I did the rabbits with spears in my twenties, and the bootlace bow for a survival course shortly after getting out of Boy Scouts,( where I learned to make long bows, bowstrings, and arrows. ) i got tired of rabbits taunting me, by popping up at close range, while i was getting in position for a deer drive, shooting it would screw up the deer drive for everyone, and a bow would do it quietly, but Ohio allows only one weapon in the field while hunting deer. The slingshot is not considered a weapon, because it is too slow, and short range. so it does not violate that rule. with 5/16" hex nuts, I can take squirrels off branches at 20-25 yards. I practice on pop cans throughout the year. I tell you this, because there is this tendency in the bow community to think of crossbowmen as lazy and that is not the case. It is a prejudice without facts. "If you are as good as you say" implies doubt. I've done it, and in a survival situation, i could do it again. I can build snares as well, i can even use a crossbow as a snare, more deadly than any deadfall. it would not be legal, but for survival, the crossbow is the better weapon."There is no way most of the people attracted to this new law will be as saavy as you" You have no basis for that assumption. that is your prejudice talking. You would not accept the idea that a bow was a toy, if it came from a gun hunter, anymore than I can accept your judgement about my weapon, or my reasons for using it. Do not equate crossbows with lazy, it is a false assumption, base on prejudice, not fact. Use of a crossbow, is a choice of a tool, not a crutch for the weak.

The only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker is observation. All the same data is present for both. The rest is understanding what you are seeing.

I have to agree, i don't care for the baiting bit. I have done it to get kids their first kill and experience game up close, but I personally don't really care for it.I know a few guys in the north woods of WI where I hunt (a whole other story on that crew) don't get up north enough to scout and use the molasses in a jug.

They dip their feet in it and make a molasses walking trail. is it baiting? well? sort of. but no different than spraying apple or any other scent on your boots.In the north woods, patterning deer is a lot tougher as there are not fields for feeding everywhere. You are hunting edges and structure (sort of like walleye fishing).

but as for the baiting and bears, I agree that I have yet to see a show on TV that shows how to hunt for bears without the use of bait piles, buckets and whatever else they use.Then they say their guide is the greatest and that they have never had a hunt like that (even though they hunted over a bait pile the week before in another location)>I don't know how else you would hunt for bears honestly as I have never pursued them and don't really care for the meat. I would love to hunt one, just not over a bucket.I will stop posting on this thread now as it has gotten way off base.

The only way I've ever seen people hunt bears without bait is basically spot and stalk. In coastal regions (or big rivers) they use a boat and spot bears from a distance off, decide if it's one they want to pursue, then beach and stalk. I've also seen Jim Shockey simply hike along logging roads and spot bears in the fresh cut areas, then stalk up on them from there.

"When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that hunter is 20 feet closer to God." ~Fred Bear

Heard from buddy in Madison that the crossbow bill is being written and we should know by June if we need to go to Retch's shop for our crossbow. He is very optimistic it will pass. The DNR wants to kill more deer

WON page 23 latest issue. That SCI letter was really well done and does a great job of explaining the situation in WI in regards to crossbows.

Pretty smart to print it just a couple days before the spring hearings to get more folks to vote no to both question 66 and 67. Thats what I plan to do and passed it along to the members of our local archery club. Make sure to turn out an Monday and keep the WI bow season from getting screwed up.