re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:24 am to Decatur)

quote: mad?

Not mad, just experienced. I had the displeasure of trying to work with this kid's old man back when he was with the governor's office. He was an arrogant, transparently dishonest, political hack. When I see his son following in the dad's political operative footsteps, I can only assume that he's hoping to continue the lucrative family business.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:30 am to TK421)

quote:No, you have one or two outliers. You do not know what the majority think.

Nor do you. That doesn't take away from the fact that this act exists to allow teachers, if they desire, to inject personal beliefs into the science classroom. This act doesn't need to exist to foster an idea of "critical thinking" in the science classroom. That is what science is centered around.

quote:Why does it matter to you so much? What do you hate freedom?

For the third time, if a teacher comes in and says that the popular theory of evolution, as defined by hundreds of years of research by experts in numerous different scientific fields, is incorrect and then presents Christianity as the alternate, valid definition, how is that "freedom"?

Using your definition of freedom, teachers would need to equally present all forms of religion and their explanation of the origin of life, evolution, etc., equally in order to foster "freedom". Is this what you really want?

It does for me. But that is likely because google caters to your normal browsing habits. Since I am constantly reading current scientific literature, my results are likely different than your's.

A Universal Scientific theory is also known as a "theory of everything." There are no commonly accepted theories that address these things. String theory is the most popular, though completely insufficient on the most basic scientific level.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 11:56 am to TK421)

quote:Teachers do this all the time in all classes. To remark that the science classroom should be some sort of sanctuary free from personal opinions is ridiculous.

No, teachers do not inject their religious beliefs all the time in classes, and if they are, they should be held accountable, especially in a science class.

quote:Wow dude. Terrible.

A large majority of the theory of evolution has been discovered and molded over the past few hundred years. Are you disagreeing with me here?

quote:Apparently you should also google the definition of "freedom."

"Sorry, students. I'm not going to teach you the theory of evolution as modern science defines it. Rather, I'm going to teach you most own personal religious beliefs as if they are factual and applicable to all of you."

Yup. Definitely the definition of freedom.

quote:Umm...no. You seem to not understand most things.

link?

quote:It does for me. But that is likely because google caters to your normal browsing habits. Since I am constantly reading current scientific literature, my results are likely different than your's.

A Universal Scientific theory is also known as a "theory of everything." There are no commonly accepted theories that address these things. String theory is the most popular, though completely insufficient on the most basic scientific level.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. A universal scientific theory can apply to a very acute area. It doesn't have to "apply to everything" as you seem to suggest.

By the way, I also searched for a definition through my grad school's EBSCOhost, which connects it to the largest database of scholarly research documents in the world, and not even it came up with a concrete definition. It actually makes me laugh that you would not default to this before doing a search in your "scholarly" google search engine.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:00 pm to NC_Tigah)

quote:WTF is an """accepted""" theory????

Regarding origin of life, global warming, human cloning, are you suggesting that AGW is not taught in Public HS Science Classes?

there are hypothesis on those subjects but not an consensus of facts pointing to narrative that has reached Theory status.

ofcourse they can be mentioned in the science class but there is a difference when it comes to the Theory of Evolution.

ANY and I repeat any 'competing' 'theory' that seek to enter your Critical Thinking arena by subverting the Scientific method, which is exactly what creationism, ID, do by sneaking in curriculums without a shred of evidence solely through the CRITICAL THINKING of Bible based politicians....is to be ridiculed not suggested as another 'theory'

do you now see the difference, its pretty simple really, you have evidence that points one direction, and you have dumbasses trying to manipulate you in another.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:08 pm to Bayou)

quote: hope you guys find your straw man one of these centuries.

how is it a strawman when its a completely different subject. by definition it cant be a strawman argument. Evolution doesnt attempt to explain origins, when are bible thumpers going to move past that childish retaliation.

thats what makes it exciting for scientist, to try and explain those beginings instead of 'God done it'

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:10 pm to bpfergu)

quote:No, teachers do not inject their religious beliefs all the time in classes, and if they are, they should be held accountable, especially in a science class.

You did not say religious beliefs, you said personal opinions. They do that all the time. I believe teachers and students should have the freedom to openly discuss otherwise controversial things in class. I'd rather have a teacher discuss the convergence of religion and science than pretend no conflict has ever existed or to openly discount a student's religious views. Then again, I'm pretty open minded.

quote:A large majority of the theory of evolution has been discovered and molded over the past few hundred years.

Considering the theory was introduced less than two hundred years ago...yes I am saying you are wrong.

quote:Sorry, students. I'm not going to teach you the theory of evolution as modern science defines it.

Who suggested that? Even the law this rage is targeted against specifically states that the approved science texts are still to be taught. It it a convenient straw man for atheists, though.

quote:By the way, I also searched for a definition through my grad school's EBSCOhost

EBSCO huh? Wow, I must be so wrong.

It's not like universal theory has been one of the hottest topics in Physics for the past two decades.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:21 pm to bpfergu)

All kinds of Jimmies rustled in here.

Looks like the kid is trying to creationism banned all together. If schools want to teach it, so be it, he shouldn't get all worked up as long as it is presented as an alternative viewpoint, evenly devoted to physical science (and vice versa).

That said, the religious folks shouldn't be upset if some teachers decide to bring in alternative teachings on other subjects based on subjective writings and non-concrete proof.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:31 pm to TK421)

quote:You did not say religious beliefs, you said personal opinions. They do that all the time. I believe teachers and students should have the freedom to openly discuss otherwise controversial things in class. I'd rather have a teacher discuss the convergence of religion and science than pretend no conflict has ever existed or to openly discount a student's religious views. Then again, I'm pretty open minded.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RELIGIOUS BELIEFS HERE. How many more times are you going to play the semantics card? It doesn't help your argument at all here, so why keep using it?

This act is allowing teachers to input their religious beliefs into the science class. That is wrong. Simple as that.

quote:Considering the theory was introduced less than two hundred years ago...yes I am saying you are wrong.

Wrong again. The idea of natural process ultimately leading to theories such as evolution have been discussed and acknowledged for hundreds of years. These things helped to mold the theory of evolution. Read up on Thomas Aquinas.

quote:Who suggested that? Even the law this rage is targeted against specifically states that the approved science texts are still to be taught. It it a convenient straw man for atheists, though.

You are suggesting that teachers be allowed to teach their personal beliefs in the classroom (ie Christianity) instead of theories with scientific backing on the account of "freedom". This is ridiculous.

quote: EBSCO huh? Wow, I must be so wrong.

It's not like universal theory has been one of the hottest topics in Physics for the past two decades.

What does this have to do with anything? Are you now going to tell me that google is a more viable search engine than EBSCO? What university do you attend? It must be awful if it has taught you that google is the go-to resource.

You keep making these ridiculous statements and not backing them when I call you out. Is this going to be a continuing trend?

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 12:36 pm to TK421)

Also I find it hilarious and ironic that you are attempting to use your "scholarly" research to define certain things, yet completely ignore that same research that widely acknowledges that the theory of evolution is valid and scientifically backed by a vast majority of the scientific community. Nice cherry picking there.

re: 19 year old fighting for Lousiana to keep science in the classroom (Posted on 1/16/13 at 1:08 pm to bpfergu)

quote:And to add to this, these things have already been happening, as discussed in the article.

Wow. I love how you defend evolution as evidence based (good for you) and swallow whole what some journalist fed you in a throw-away line.

1. There has NOT been a out break of creationism teaching because of this bill. 2. There is nothing in this bill that could not have been done before hand. I've yet to see a teacher wanted to bring in supplemental info disciplined for it. That is before or after this bill.

In short, if I was a creationist (I'm not) I would extremely disappointed with this bill. It did NOTHING.

Well not entirely true. It did rile up those parties that care about this issue but don't care to truly do their homework when it comes to the law and policies.