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Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Let's not forget last year was Granger's first year in a while that he did not average 20 ppg and he was at 18.7 ppg, so lets not forget, he may not be an elite player, but he is up there with some of the top scorers, not LeBron or KD or Kobe or Melo types, but maybe in that next category scoring wise, if he didn't get off to such a poor start last year he would have been a 20 ppg guy

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

We won't know until he comes back. The description of best player is still relative up to last season.

I think we know, Paul George is doing more and playing better than Danny in the past two years, even before this run I thought Paul George was playing well, he is rebounding, scoring and passing better than Danny, I know somebody is going to come up with stats and cinergy to prove otherwise but to me Paul George is doing more and doing things that stats don't show.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I'd agree with this. Paul George is our best player right now. His all-around game is simply phenomenal. It's not a slight on Granger that I don't consider him the best player because not a lot of players are outplaying George in this stretch.

but PG has to keep it up. We know what we got in Danny. I'd still call him our best player for that reason. I think PG will keep it up and will end up being that guy for us, but he still has to keep doing it. And not to mention he just started playing this well. so we really were playing without our best player.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I think we know, Paul George is doing more and playing better than Danny in the past two years, even before this run I thought Paul George was playing well, he is rebounding, scoring and passing better than Danny, I know somebody is going to come up with stats and cinergy to prove otherwise but to me Paul George is doing more and doing things that stats don't show.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

but PG has to keep it up. We know what we got in Danny. I'd still call him our best player for that reason. I think PG will keep it up and will end up being that guy for us, but he still has to keep doing it. And not to mention he just started playing this well. so we really were playing without our best player.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I think we know, Paul George is doing more and playing better than Danny in the past two years, even before this run I thought Paul George was playing well, he is rebounding, scoring and passing better than Danny, I know somebody is going to come up with stats and cinergy to prove otherwise but to me Paul George is doing more and doing things that stats don't show.

Hell even as a "West hater" I take West over Danny at this point.

Not really disagreeing with you, but if he can do this on a consistent basis for the whole season, PG will be the best player. I'm sure Granger will never have problems with it. But there's still a lot of games to be played, and I will really be happy, and the whole team in general, if PG can surpass Granger starting this season.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Do not put words in my mouth or talk about hidden agendas. Just what would that agenda be. I don't like the direction the team took in the offseason and it has been proven out so far. Augustin, Plumlee, Green so far have done nothing to make this team better than it was. In fact it is worse. Young plays hard and has had his moments but is inconsistent as is Mahimi. I said they overpaid Roy and it is obvious they did. I don't get all hyped up over a victory over another average team. I don't think we have a coach that can take us to that next level either. I do think Danny is a good player and a good person but I in no way think he is the star that some on here do. I don't think he is the difference maker we need. I think Roy is mentally weak. The best way to judge what he will do in the future in that regard is by what he has done in the past. When he loses confidence he is a very bad player. I don't think that will ever change. You have the right to get all fired up after a win like last night just as I have the right to complain about the debacle in Milwaukee. They play 2 this weekend, lets see if they continue the upswing or take some steps backward. I think it will be the latter because I have seen it over and over.

I don't understand this arguement at all, it was either an overpaid Roy or Chris Kaman, and I will take Roy, sure Kaman averages 14 ppg to Roy's 10 but Hibbert has been a beast defensively, I think just as good as any other center in the league up to this point. I think his defense makes him better than Kaman, Kaman would not have fixed our offensive problems this year, and we would not be near as good defensively with Kaman in the middle instead of Hibbert. Yes we overpayed for Roy, but we made the right choice in doing so, letting him to go to Portland, and we may be 9-15 or 10-14 this year

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

disagree, Roy was an all-star because there were not many centers in the East that were as good as him, Danny Granger was our best player last year, not Roy, Roy was a very good piece last year, but our best player would be a stretch.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Not really disagreeing with you, but if he can do this on a consistent basis for the whole season, PG will be the best player. I'm sure Granger will never have problems with it. But there's still a lot of games to be played, and I will really be happy, and the whole team in general, if PG can surpass Granger starting this season.

I thought he was already better than Danny before this scoring run, people were down on him because he was not scoring 20, I love what Paul George brings even if he is not scoring a lot.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I think we know, Paul George is doing more and playing better than Danny in the past two years, even before this run I thought Paul George was playing well, he is rebounding, scoring and passing better than Danny, I know somebody is going to come up with stats and cinergy to prove otherwise but to me Paul George is doing more and doing things that stats don't show.

Hell even as a "West hater" I take West over Danny at this point.

and you are a West hater why??? He is our 2nd best player at this point, and our go to guy on offense right now, he is our veteran leader, he is basically the heart of this team. How could you hate him?

I don't get all hyped up over a victory either. A win is always good against any opponent but at the grand scheme of things it's only 1 more W in the W/L column on an 82 game season. I'll just take it and move on to the next game.

And that's the exact same thing I do after a loss. I don't get too down either. In the end, a loss is a loss and a win is a win. What matters is our final record and the playoff seed that we earned.

I don't. I think that Roy is way more mentally strong than 95% of the forum. It takes a mentally strong individual to be able to acknowledge his mistakes and shortcomings. Turning your weaknesses into strength. Only a strong-willed individual can do this.

You have the right to get all fired up after a win like last night just as I have the right to complain about the debacle in Milwaukee. They play 2 this weekend, lets see if they continue the upswing or take some steps backward. I think it will be the latter because I have seen it over and over.

As I said, I didn't get all fired up after a win like last night. In the grand scheme of things it has minimal value apart from 1 more W in the W column. The only reason that I'm posting in this thread is to debunk some stupid arguments.

Yes, you have every right to complain about the debacle in Milwaukee. But that doesn't mean that those complaints had any factual value.

All of the available stats (be it advanced defensive stats or the schedule itself) are pointing out that the Pacers are on the rise and that they will continue to be on the rise as they get a lot more games at home.

It just saddens me when I see people so blinded by their self-imposed negativity that they fail to appreciate their teams.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

I don't understand this arguement at all, it was either an overpaid Roy or Chris Kaman, and I will take Roy, sure Kaman averages 14 ppg to Roy's 10 but Hibbert has been a beast defensively, I think just as good as any other center in the league up to this point. I think his defense makes him better than Kaman, Kaman would not have fixed our offensive problems this year, and we would not be near as good defensively with Kaman in the middle instead of Hibbert. Yes we overpayed for Roy, but we made the right choice in doing so, letting him to go to Portland, and we may be 9-15 or 10-14 this year

Why does Kaman's name come up. That is an assumption and nobody will ever know how someone like Kaman would have fit in with this group.Kaman is a better offensive player than Roy but has his own weaknesses. I just think Roys contract has handcuffed the Pacers for the next several years and you can't depend on him.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Nope. Being an All Star is positional based. Danny wasn't in the All Star game for 3 reasons:

1) LeBron plays in the East. He is a lock for starting SF in the AS game.

2) The Bulls had the best record in the league and thus had to be awarded with 2 AS spots. Who was the second best player in the Bulls? Luol Deng. What position does he play? SF. He goes in the AS then.

3) Danny was in a shooting slump pre-ASG. He was much, much better post-ASG.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

and you are a West hater why??? He is our 2nd best player at this point, and our go to guy on offense right now, he is our veteran leader, he is basically the heart of this team. How could you hate him?

He doesn't hate West, in general. He only hates his defense. Oh, and he prefers Nene.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

I also forgot my guy Hill and probably Roy, yes I take Hill over Danny too, I would take Paul George, West, Hill, Roy and then Danny(if healthy).

Last year Granger was our best scorer and our most consistent defender. He was our second best post defender and our second best wing defender. Hibbert was great about help defense, and Paul George was great in on ball defense. That's a pretty strong statement to say he's our fifth best player after a down season where he was still leading our team.

And you know the all-star was given because Hibbert was voted in as a top center, not because he was the next best available player. No reason to throw bait out there like that.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

Nope. Being an All Star is positional based. Danny wasn't in the All Star game for 3 reasons:

1) LeBron plays in the East. He is a lock for starting SF in the AS game.

2) The Bulls had the best record in the league and thus had to be awarded with 2 AS spots. Who was the second best player in the Bulls? Luol Deng. What position does he play? SF. He goes in the AS then.

3) Danny was in a shooting slump pre-ASG. He was much, much better post-ASG.

He was good for like a month( I even thought he was playing at a superstar level)but still he was not the Pacers best player last year not even close.

Re: Pacers/Jazz Postgame Thread 12/19/12

You did the same last season as well. So, cut that off-season crap. It will not work. We all know that it's not true.

Last season, almost after every tough loss you'd chime in and post threads about why this team "will never go forward".

I don't get all hyped up over a victory either. A win is always good against any opponent but at the grand scheme of things it's only 1 more W in the W/L column on an 82 game season. I'll just take it and move on to the next game.

And that's the exact same thing I do after a loss. I don't get too down either. In the end, a loss is a loss and a win is a win. What matters is our final record and the playoff seed that we earned.

I don't think that Danny Granger is a star. But then again, I don't give a flying **** about "stars".

I don't. I think that Roy is way more mentally strong than 95% of the forum. It takes a mentally strong individual to be able to acknowledge his mistakes and shortcomings. Turning your weaknesses into strength. Only a strong-willed individual can do this.

As I said, I didn't get all fired up after a win like last night. In the grand scheme of things it has minimal value apart from 1 more W in the W column. The only reason that I'm posting in this thread is to debunk some stupid arguments.

Yes, you have every right to complain about the debacle in Milwaukee. But that doesn't mean that those complaints had any factual value.

All of the available stats (be it advanced defensive stats or the schedule itself) are pointing out that the Pacers are on the rise and that they will continue to be on the rise as they get a lot more games at home.

It just saddens me when I see people so blinded by their self-imposed negativity that they fail to appreciate their teams.

All that nonsense you just posted has no merit what so ever to it. You do not live here, you do not feel the pulse of the fanbase here. You have no history what so ever w,ith this franchise except you chose to be a fan I guess. The Pacers are average their record bears that out. They are not popular in their own town. The attendence is proof of that. The national media and even local media do not talk much about them. That is because they have become irrelevent to most people. That means most people here don't like the product that much. These are the facts and they are supported. Now I will sit back and wait for your argument about how it is the fans fault for not showing blind loyalty to a franchise that for many years lost its way.