BG EE Dragon diciple Solo run

Been few years since I logged in these forum. Today I would like some insight on the dragon diciple and charisma stat. I plan on doing multiple runs to farm tome+ and create a DD goddess. I'd like to know if there is a table, listing Spell progression and CHR. thank you.

Comments

I've been trying to write a guide about how to make a most powerful sorcerer out of Dragon Disciple, who can survive all traps (excluding trap-like devices) and all encounters without much metagaming needed. But seeing you are planning to play BG1, I guess I'm not of much help.

Here I'd like to point out that:

Sorcerer, being a class initially introduced with the release of SoA, is BY FAR the weakest of all BG classes: hit die = lowest of all classes, # of know spells = 1/4 of what most mages can learn, is unable to swap spells once learned (so if he learns a worst spell, he'll be stuck with it forever), lacks tactical flexibility (as some have claimed), etc. EE introduced DD as a kit of Sorcerer and officially describes DD as (more) powerful Sorcerers. But by the speculations of quite a number of players, DD may be okay on it own, but is definitely inferior to Sorcerer (vanilla) because the kit benefits can't compensate for the loss of one spell per level.

So, in short:The weakest of ALL classes = Sorcerer

And according to some discussions:Dragon Disciple < Sorcerer (vanilla) < Mage < Edwin (in the order of their "power")

Been few years since I logged in these forum. Today I would like some insight on the dragon diciple and charisma stat. I plan on doing multiple runs to farm tome+ and create a DD goddess. I'd like to know if there is a table, listing Spell progression and CHR. thank you.

I would say you don't need to do multiple runs in the first place, because stats are only important for a dragon disciple at the very beginning, when your character can get one-shotted by a kobold. Once you have a few spells in your spellbook, stats become somewhat irrelevant, because they don't affect your spellcasting. (except for wisdom and wish spells, but that's BG2)

As for picking up the right spells, generally I'm a fan of "whatever works for you". For me the most useful spell when soloing BG1 (and I have soloed both a dragon disciple and a mage, though the mage was a loong time ago) was invisibility. I'd disagree with the above post, however, because both mages and sorcerers can use wands. And frankly, wands is all you need to solo BG1 with relative ease - they are that powerful.

So far I've been using Shield + mirror image. I have a ring +1 So my AC drop to-2 atm. I am dagger and throwing dagger atm. The ranged weapon give me - 2 to tach0 and 2 attack per round.

My Current stats are

STR 18DEX 18CON 18INT 10WSM 9CHR 18

I tried to run a Evil neutral but once I got my familiar, I couldn't carry it in a bag. I switched to a neutral Good. I can get the Robe of the Good Archmagi in High Hedge without fighting any npc. I'd like to get most of her stats in the 20s+.

All of this information is scattered around the Wiki, but I find PlayItHardcore has the best presentation of all of the races, classes, kits, statistics, and progression charts. See here.

The Dragon Disciple has a big disadvantage over the Sorceror in BGEE in that he gets one fewer spell cast per level. He has a big advantage over Sorceror (when soloing) in that he gets +1 constitution at level 5, which combined with the constitution tome is enough to get you to 20 constitution, aka "natural regeneration". (The fire resistance more comes into play in BG2, but it's possible late-game to get a pair of rings of fire resistance and hurl fireballs at yourself.)

Regardless, if you know what you're doing Sorceror is widely considered the easiest solo, with Dragon Disciple not far behind. If you don't know what you're doing, it's still probably not going to be too much harder than any other solo unless you really bork the spell selection.

One question, though: is there any particular reason you're set on doing multiple run-throughs? I know you want the stat tomes, but if that's all, you could always use a character editor to just give yourself the extra points, or barring that, use the import/export trick to duplicate the tomes you find in a single run-through. I know everyone's cheese tolerance is a little bit different, so perhaps "playing through the game six times" just feels less exploity to you; I'm not judging, I was just curious.

(I remember when I first played BG I was all set to do a multiple-runthrough character who got all stats to 25, but that zeal lasted about as long as it took me to discover the import/export trick and/or realize how boring trudging through the Nashkel mines was with a stupid-OP charname just to get another set of books.)

Well, I dug 3 feet in the backyard of Mr. Baldur's and failed to unearth a class weaker than Sorcerer. Sorry, sir, maybe someone else could give it a try... please?

No kidding, this is actually a plain known fact, though to most ppl it doesn't deserve much attention. Unlike a lot of fast-paced games, an inherent greatest part of RPG gaming is the feature of quick save & quick reload. It is even considered as a greatest indisputable tactic for RPG power gaming, known among some BG players here as "Power Word : Reload." So, who cares about which class is weak or the weakest? When the 100th incarnation of a protagonist finally kills the end-game boss, who sadly is given only 1 life to live, we always hail as if it were the original protagonist - the one created at char creation screen - that defeat the game.

To most, what matters is: Which are the most powerful/best/whatnot classes?

Well, I dug 3 feet in the backyard of Mr. Baldur's and failed to unearth a class weaker than Sorcerer. Sorry, sir, maybe someone else could give it a try... please?

No kidding, this is actually a plain known fact, though to most ppl it doesn't deserve much attention. Unlike a lot of fast-paced games, an inherent greatest part of RPG gaming is the feature of quick save & quick reload. It is even considered as a greatest indisputable tactic for RPG power gaming, known among some BG players here as "Power Word : Reload." So, who cares about which class is weak or the weakest? When the 100th incarnation of a protagonist finally kills the end-game boss, who sadly is given only 1 life to live, we always hail as if it were the original protagonist - the one created at char creation screen - that defeat the game.

To most, what matters is: Which are the most powerful/best/whatnot classes?

If you want a better understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of different classes, I suggest not reloading 100 times.

Well, I dug 3 feet in the backyard of Mr. Baldur's and failed to unearth a class weaker than Sorcerer. Sorry, sir, maybe someone else could give it a try... please?

No kidding, this is actually a plain known fact, though to most ppl it doesn't deserve much attention.

Provided adequate metaknowledge (to deal with the traps), Sorcerers are widely considered the easiest to solo, which seems at odds with the apparently plain knowledge that they're the weakest class in the game.

Sorcerers can cast more spells per day than specialist mages, and will handily trounce generalists. (Specialists and sorcerers will eventually both cap out at 6 casts per level, and through level 9 Specialists will have access to one higher level of spells 50% of the time, but by and large over the life of the trilogy the Sorcerer will have more casts.) Spellcasters' power is defined by the number and type of spells they can cast.

Sorcerers will also have more tactical flexibility. Provided he has 2nd-level casts left, the Sorcerer can feel free to refresh Mirror Image at will. The mage must decide in advance how many to memorize, risking bringing too few (and running out), or too many, (and "wasting" casts on a spell they no longer need). Sorcerers will use a higher percentage of their memorized spells in any given day, which increases their advantage as the class that casts the most arcane spells in BG. (And since arcane spells are the most powerful force in BG, the class that casts the most arcane spells is the most powerful class in BG.)

Now, sorcerers have a restriction in exchange for that power. They can only learn up to five spells per spell level. But most levels don't have more than 5 spells that you'll need to regularly cast, anyway. Maybe 6 or 7 if you're being extra charitable. And you can still use scrolls for those "once in a blue moon" spells, so this is barely a restriction. (Also notable: since sorcerors don't use up scrolls by scribing them, sorcerors will have more scrolls on hand to cast from.)

And specialist mages have restrictions, too. They lose entire schools worth of spells, and unlike Sorcerors, they don't have an easy way around that drawback. An Abjurer can never cast Haste, Slow, Stoneskin, Time Stop, or Shapechange. A Conjurer can never cast Identify or True Sight. A Diviner loses Glitterdust, the Power Words, and most of the summons. An Enchanter loses Mordenk's Sword, Spell Trigger, and most of the good direct damage spells. An Illusionist drops Animate Dead and Horrid Wilting. An Invoker is locked out of Sleep, Malison, Feeblemind, and Chaos. A Necromancer has no Invisibility, Mirror Image, Project Image, or Simulacrum. A Transmuter loses Dispel, Spell Immunity, and PfMW.

The Sorcerer can cast and learn any and all of those, giving up instead filler like Know Alignment, Flesh to Stone, Oracle, Cone of Cold, Ghoul Touch, etc. In short, the difference between a sorcerer and a specialist is that the sorcerer is always giving up the 6th and 7th best spells per level, while the specialist is occasionally giving up one of the top 3 spells in a level.

One could argue that the Conjurer got off pretty easy with this penalty, only losing Identify (a quality-of-life improvement, though one sorcerers are uniquely positioned to take advantage of), and True Sight, (which can be worked around). Though the Conjurer also makes very little use of specialist mages -2 save malus relative to some other specialists, (notably, it's mostly only going to apply to Glitterdust and Flame Arrow). Also, all specialists have a -15% chance to learn any spells that aren't from their school, which is hugely consequential if you're not reloading after every failed scribe attempt, (or playing on a lower difficulty where spell scribing is automatically successful).

Even if you wanted to argue Conjurers were above Sorcerers, there's still the matter that Sorcerers trump most other specialists pretty easily, and handily outstrip bog-standard generalists.

Finally, Sorcerors are not limited by scroll availability. If you somehow managed to get a level 27 Sorceror in BG1, that sorcerer could cast Time Stop. The mage could not, because there are no Time Stop scrolls in BG1. This is especially important while soloing, as a mage will frequently "outlevel his spells", going long stretches where he's theoretically able to cast 9th level spells, say, but doesn't have access to the top options there because he hasn't found a scroll yet. (This is especially brutal in Icewind Dale, FWIW.)

It's true that if a Sorceror selects his or her spells poorly, the resulting character can be quite weak. But that doesn't make the sorcerer a weak class, it makes a class that requires some knowledge ahead of time. Given that knowledge and (reasonably) optimal spell selections, I'd argue Sorcerers are the strongest class in either game. At a bare minimum, they're on the short list.

I think it's useless to have more than 16 Constitution for spellcasters

One of the best items in BG1 (and deep into BG2) for an arcane caster is the Claw of Kazgaroth - so long as you have a constitution of 18 to allow you to put it on without a HP penalty. For a dragon disciple it's also possible to push constitution up to 20 and activate regeneration. That's handy when playing solo as it lets you run away from combat and heal damage up before the possibility of a travel ambush.

I think it's useless to have more than 16 Constitution for spellcasters

One of the best items in BG1 (and deep into BG2) for an arcane caster is the Claw of Kazgaroth - so long as you have a constitution of 18 to allow you to put it on without a HP penalty. For a dragon disciple it's also possible to push constitution up to 20 and activate regeneration. That's handy when playing solo as it lets you run away from combat and heal damage up before the possibility of a travel ambush.

Oh interesting! The claw of Kazgaroth seems to be powerful indeed, and I didn't know regeneration could activate with a non-warrior class.

Edit : I might even be tempted to give the claw of Kazgaroth to my Xzar

I think it's useless to have more than 16 Constitution for spellcasters

One of the best items in BG1 (and deep into BG2) for an arcane caster is the Claw of Kazgaroth - so long as you have a constitution of 18 to allow you to put it on without a HP penalty. For a dragon disciple it's also possible to push constitution up to 20 and activate regeneration. That's handy when playing solo as it lets you run away from combat and heal damage up before the possibility of a travel ambush.

Not to mention the fact that sorcerors just don't have many places to put their stat points, anyway. They don't have a primary stat for spellcasting, (though they do still need 9 INT to use wands/scrolls), so they can do things like max Wisdom solely to boost their Wish spells, or add an extra two points to Constitution just to equip a specific item or try to hit regen. 18/18/18/9/18/3 only takes a roll of 84, which is super quick and easy.

They're strong, but as @SomeSort said, you have to have spell knowledge beforehand. I often take time researching and develop an entire list of spells that I'll be taking before I even start a Sorcerer run, solo or otherwise.

One of the most powerful classes, if not the most powerful, is what you're trying to claim is the weakest?

Only broken combinations such as a Fighter/Mage (dual or multi) or Berserker-->Cleric even come close to the power of a sorcerer.

Also, in Icewind Dale, I'd take the dragon disciple over the regular sorcerer every time. That extra AC is nice but the fire resistance, coupled with Protection from Fire spell, means you can wade into huge armies of monsters by yourself and drop a fireball or two at your feet to kill them all, without taking a single bit of damage to yourself. Because piddly Cold Wights can't hurt a sorcerer with Spirit Armor, Stoneskin and Mirror Image cast on himself.