But...it's not because the influence of Blues is since central to the sound of Jazz up through the 70's.

Yes, blues had been the central influence of jazz. But the vocabulary, idioms, and rhythmic/melodic approaches are very different from pure blues. Also, not all jazz, even from the classic era, always brought out blues characteristics. Bossa novas, popular song, and others all could have jazz renditions. The blues wasn't the common thread binding all of these together. Do you actually study/play jazz? I'm getting the impression that you don't.

Secondly, you seem to suggest that jazz is limited to up to the 70s? Because there is plenty of jazz since then.

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You can't even hear an indication of the relationship between Blues & Death Metal it's so far removed.

I could hear it up to Metallica, which is a precursor to death metal. That's about the same lineage as jazz's whole identity in relations to the blues.

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Originally Posted by BjarnedeGraaf

I want to reconcile the violence in your heart
I want to recognise your beauty's not just a mask
I want to exorcise the demons from your past
I want to satisfy the undisclosed desires in your heart

You're making a ******edly pragmatic argument about how Jazz & Blues are totally unrelated, and I'm simply acknowledging that Blues is the single most important thing in Jazz, and has been since the beginning...

You seem to have problems with reading comprehension. Xiaoxi's assertion, as I interpreted it, was to note the blues elements in some early heavy metal tracks, and then to note that it didn't mean that metal as a whole relied on blues vocabulary as it's core. The Dying Fetus track has no blues elements, to be sure. But these definitely have something of the blues in them, albeit in a heavily distorted form:

But the point is that it's not the blues language that makes them 'metal', hence the existence of metal with no recognisable blues vocabulary. In a similar way, Jazz may occasionally utilise blues devices, but that doesn't mean that the blues is what defines Jazz at it's core.

But his original comparison was "Blues is to death metal as blues is to jazz". He later revised that to have something to do with heavy metal being the precursor to death metal...

Even so, the commonality between any form of metal and blues is less so than that of blues & jazz. Probably because jazz is a continuation of the african-american tradition rooted in blues, then ragtime, then dixieland, and so forth.

Rock music didn't evolve in the same way, which is clear when you group these things in a hierarchy. The overarching point is: at any point, in most jazz, you can distinctly hear the influence that blues still has either in the melodic vocabulary, phrasing, or form.

Even so, the commonality between any form of metal and blues is less so than that of blues & jazz. Probably because jazz is a continuation of the african-american tradition rooted in blues, then ragtime, then dixieland, and so forth.

What makes jazz so much more of this continuation than rock? Because you said so?

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at any point, in most jazz, you can distinctly hear the influence that blues still has either in the melodic vocabulary, phrasing, or form.

Sure, if most jazz was only relegated to a specific kind of jazz from a specific era.

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Originally Posted by BjarnedeGraaf

I want to reconcile the violence in your heart
I want to recognise your beauty's not just a mask
I want to exorcise the demons from your past
I want to satisfy the undisclosed desires in your heart

You said blues is to jazz and blues is to death metal. Is that you're story & you're sticking to it, or do you want to rectify the errors in that statement and we can stop bickering?

Yes, I'm sticking to that. My point is that it is ignorant to always cast them in the same shade as so many who are not familiar with either genres tend to do. Jazz is a style all of its own, requiring dedicated discipline, not merely something that can be easily adaptable after just knowing how to play the blues (which itself is usually underestimated by reducing it to just pentatonic bends). In learning jazz, the ability to play blues lends as much help as that of death metal.

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Originally Posted by Nietsche

But the point is that it's not the blues language that makes them 'metal', hence the existence of metal with no recognisable blues vocabulary. In a similar way, Jazz may occasionally utilise blues devices, but that doesn't mean that the blues is what defines Jazz at it's core.

Glad someone gets it.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BjarnedeGraaf

I want to reconcile the violence in your heart
I want to recognise your beauty's not just a mask
I want to exorcise the demons from your past
I want to satisfy the undisclosed desires in your heart

Yes, I'm sticking to that. My point is that it is ignorant to always cast them in the same shade as so many who are not familiar with either genres tend to do. Jazz is a style all of its own, requiring dedicated discipline, not merely something that can be easily adaptable after just knowing how to play the blues (which itself is usually underestimated by reducing it to just pentatonic bends). In learning jazz, the ability to play blues lends as much help as that of death metal.