Oh boy, a lot of Ross's wallet watchers are not going to like this LMAO

Pay him, keep trying to upgrade the position and trade/release him when it happens. Right now we are too weak at that position to think we can draft/sign 3 guys that will make Hartline obsolete...

Bess - Hartline - Wallace - Patterson...

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:18 am

jammer

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

10acjed wrote:

Oh boy, a lot of Ross's wallet watchers are not going to like this LMAO

Pay him, keep trying to upgrade the position and trade/release him when it happens. Right now we are too weak at that position to think we can draft/sign 3 guys that will make Hartline obsolete...

Bess - Hartline - Wallace - Patterson...

Well, its possible Wallace is still the big target. It could go a few different ways. They might go for a quantity approach (Hartline, Jennings, TE, CB) with the average being 6 mil/year per contract. Or they could do Hartline, Wallace and one other target while focusing on the draft for the rest.

I have to say, the Hartline news plus the Starks tag has really thrown me off. I didn't think they'd be willing to commit this much to those two players.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:44 am

10acjed

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

jammer wrote:

I have to say, the Hartline news plus the Starks tag has really thrown me off. I didn't think they'd be willing to commit this much to those two players.

I have a feeling Starks will either sign before June, or he is only here one more year. Just my opinion or theory on it. Hard to just let guys walk without knowing you have a replacement, if its not someone they see as "long term" it could be they are just keeping for now..

Like I have said before, Hartline can be traded next year or the year after. He is not going to disappear, he is just a good middle of the pack WR, valuable so long as he is healthy.

I am a fan, I like to win and I feel Hartline on the roster gives us the best chance to win, specially early on in the season. So I wont get but hurt if he is paid a bit more than I think he deserves. It doesnt affect my season ticket prices or parking prices. So spend his money anyway they want to make me happy on Sunday LOL...

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:55 am

shularino

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

How does this stuff get leaked........................I've negotiated contracts for Companies and we always maintained strict confidentiality until final execution.

Anyway, I'm good with bringing him back..........but $6M/year is steep.........I wonder how much will be guaranteed.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:13 pm

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

shularino wrote:

How does this stuff get leaked........................I've negotiated contracts for Companies and we always maintained strict confidentiality until final execution.

More people are paying attention to these things than to the contracts you're working on, I would assume.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:24 pm

shularino

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Without a doubt Rich.........but it's very bad practice to release specific details, prior to execution. I'm sure both parties received legal guidance not to comment until an agreement is finalized.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:56 pm

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

shularino wrote:

Without a doubt Rich.........but it's very bad practice to release specific details, prior to execution. I'm sure both parties received legal guidance not to comment until an agreement is finalized.

Yeah but the reporters always have unnamed sources they can rely on to get rumors/news.

There is always a mole.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:26 pm

jammer

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

It actually makes a lot of sense if Miami can also land Wallace. You get two young receivers, one speed the other possession, locked up for 4-5 years to help the development and hopeful success of your young QB.

Miami can still draft a guy in the late 2nd or early 3rd (Woods/Patton/Bailey) or even grab Austin which might create a nightmare for defenses.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:14 pm

shularino

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Paying a middle of the road receiver $6M/yr is extreme, especially considering the picks the Dolphins have. Anyway, I think Marvez jumped the gun by reporting the details of the agreement. From the Miami Herald............

"However, a league source told The Miami Herald that while the two sides are deep into negotiations and have made some progress, no deal is imminent."

Last edited by shularino on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Agree with you fully Big Dave, the only one to gain by prematurely, and possibly falsely, reporting information is Rosenhaus/Hartline. In the event no agreement is reached, it benefits Hartline to claim the Dolphins are aggressively trying to resign him. Rosenhaus' next strategy maybe to schedule a workout in Hartline's driveway.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

shularino wrote:

Paying a middle of the road receiver $6M/yr is extreme

Why?

If you think about it, the top receivers in the NFL (Megatron, Fitz) are making $16-$18 million a year. Dwayne Bowe just got a deal worth $11-12 million a year. Wallace will probably get $12-13 million a year.

Why is it "extreme" to pay a young, 1000-yard receiver $5-6 million?

Extreme would be to pay Hartline $9-10 million.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:44 pm

shularino

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Rich, we've been through this on a past thread, so I wont repeat what I previously posted. Anyway, I don't see Hartline as a long-term option for the Dolphins. I believe we will upgrade the receiver position in the next two years, where Hartline will then be the 4th option.

No hard feelings Man, those are my thoughts and hope.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:01 pm

bobby0112

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

shularino wrote:

Paying a middle of the road receiver $6M/yr is extreme, especially considering the picks the Dolphins have.

Hasn't the last 10 years convinced you that having picks doesn't mean Miami will automatically have success filling holes? Even if they resign Hartline they still need the following. Why let Hartline get away and then pay comparable for another teams cast off? Miami has too many other holes to create another one by letting Hartline walk.#1 WROTCBTESPass Rusher

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:05 pm

10acjed

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Personally I have not seen one thing done by our current staff and GM that tells me they can find even 1 guy better than Hartline. So until they actually produce a serviceable WR via draft or FA, I would prefer to keep our best WR, even if he is over paid and his stats are padded by a couple huge games....

I love the optimism, but fail to have the same faith in drafting & acquiring FA's at this time.....

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:07 pm

shularino

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Obviously, this is Ireland's year. If he fails to produce, with the number of draft picks and cap space we have, then he needs to go. We obviously need to upgrade at WR, it was a glaring weakness last year, and it will take more than replacing one of our receivers.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:19 pm

bobby0112

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

I understand where you are coming from Shularino. I think Miami needs to complement Hartline and Bess. Part of the problem last year is that Miami traded its #1 WR and then failed to replace him. When Marshall was traded, Miami made a small effort to replace him by bringing in Chad Johnson. Then he was released. Miami played the entire year without a true #1 WR. Hartline is a solid #2 WR and Bess is a slot #3. The offense will improve once Miami gets a true #1 WR. And they would improve even more if they can get a TE that can create separation and attack the seam. Miami needs more weapons to create mismatches.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:30 pm

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

shularino wrote:

Anyway, I don't see Hartline as a long-term option for the Dolphins.

It doesn't matter whether YOU see him as a long-term option for the Dolphins. It matters whether the Dolphins see him as a long-term option for the Dolphins.

If they offer him a long-term contract, they see him as a long-term option. It appears since they are talking with Hartline (but not really talking with Long, Bush or Smith), that they do see him as a long-term option.

Quote:

I believe we will upgrade the receiver position in the next two years, where Hartline will then be the 4th option.

If we sign Wallace and Hartline, we will probably focus on addressing offensive line, defensive backfield and defensive end in the draft, maybe even tight end.

If we do not sign Wallace or another big name free agent, then we probably draft one receiver.

In any of those cases, your Hartline as a 4th option scenario simply doesn't make sense. It didn't the last time we discussed it. It doesn't now.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:00 pm

degs

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

shularino wrote:

Rich, we've been through this on a past thread, so I wont repeat what I previously posted. Anyway, I don't see Hartline as a long-term option for the Dolphins. I believe we will upgrade the receiver position in the next two years, where Hartline will then be the 4th option.

No hard feelings Man, those are my thoughts and hope.

I agree with you. The 1,000 yards is good, don't get me wrong. And I like Hartline. But he doesn't score TD's and has only had one 1,000 yard season. Never came close otherwise.

I'd rather pay another guy $2-4m a year to put up 700 yards and 2 TD's and use the extra $2-4m to upgrade somewhere else.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:35 pm

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

degs wrote:

But he doesn't score TD's and has only had one 1,000 yard season. Never came close otherwise.

He never came close, but this was his first season as a full-time starter. I'm not sure how he was supposed to come close when Brandon Marshall was on the team. This was only his fourth season.

The lack of TDs is a concern but if he had 1000 yards and 6TDs then he'd be sitting closer to the 8 figure range.

Quote:

I'd rather pay another guy $2-4m a year to put up 700 yards and 2 TD's and use the extra $2-4m to upgrade somewhere else.

You're not going to find a 700 yard, 2 TD guy for that price.

This is a passing league and the value of QBs and wide receivers is at an all time high.

Dwayne Bowe just got an 11 mil a year deal coming off 800 yards and 3 TDs. James Jones is making $3 million a year and before he signed that contract he was getting 400-500 yards and a couple of TDs (Not to mention a lot of drops).

Nate Washington signed a deal in 2009 that pays his more than $4 million a year and he was averaging 500 yards and 3 TDs before getting that deal.

Pierre Garcon is making almost $9 million a year to get 700 yards and 5TDs.

Sorry, but those numbers you posted aren't grounded in the reality of the cost to do business with wide receivers in the NFL.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:11 pm

phinsfansc

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Can't say I am thrilled to pay Hartline 6 mill/per year, but Rich darn sure makes a valid point. The other plus of bringing Hartline back is he does have great chemistry with Tannehill.

Personally I have not seen one thing done by our current staff and GM that tells me they can find even 1 guy better than Hartline. So until they actually produce a serviceable WR via draft or FA, I would prefer to keep our best WR, even if he is over paid and his stats are padded by a couple huge games....

I love the optimism, but fail to have the same faith in drafting & acquiring FA's at this time.....

Very truthful & accurate thoughts.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:47 pm

Rock Sexton

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

phinsfansc wrote:

Can't say I am thrilled to pay Hartline 6 mill/per year, but Rich darn sure makes a valid point. The other plus of bringing Hartline back is he does have great chemistry with Tannehill.

Considering that there's a good likelihood of his production getting better (especially in the TD department) IF we bring aboard another receiver, I'm perfectly fine with it. The guy obviously has major chemistry with Tannehill and the consistency/comfort factor is an intangible worth part of that $6 million.

I just don't see the problem with it at all, especially when you look around at WR salaries.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:50 pm

AQNOR

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Good news. Lets hope they get it done.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:55 pm

degs

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Rich wrote:

degs wrote:

But he doesn't score TD's and has only had one 1,000 yard season. Never came close otherwise.

He never came close, but this was his first season as a full-time starter. I'm not sure how he was supposed to come close when Brandon Marshall was on the team. This was only his fourth season.

The lack of TDs is a concern but if he had 1000 yards and 6TDs then he'd be sitting closer to the 8 figure range.

Quote:

I'd rather pay another guy $2-4m a year to put up 700 yards and 2 TD's and use the extra $2-4m to upgrade somewhere else.

You're not going to find a 700 yard, 2 TD guy for that price.

This is a passing league and the value of QBs and wide receivers is at an all time high.

Dwayne Bowe just got an 11 mil a year deal coming off 800 yards and 3 TDs. James Jones is making $3 million a year and before he signed that contract he was getting 400-500 yards and a couple of TDs (Not to mention a lot of drops).

Nate Washington signed a deal in 2009 that pays his more than $4 million a year and he was averaging 500 yards and 3 TDs before getting that deal.

Pierre Garcon is making almost $9 million a year to get 700 yards and 5TDs.

Sorry, but those numbers you posted aren't grounded in the reality of the cost to do business with wide receivers in the NFL.

Rich, I respect your opinion and your right to disagree with me. I do disagree with the downplaying of his TD numbers. A point that has been discussed at length on this board is the Dolphins lack of WRs who can get separation in the red zone. Hartlibe is part of that problem. His TD numbers are what they are. And they are concerning.

As for mid-range WRs and their price tags these days. I guess I see most of then as having priced themselves out of the market. I would be most interested in a rookie to go along with Bess and a FA signing. Otherwise look for a second tier guy when the big money has been spent and a reasonable price can be found.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:29 pm

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

degs wrote:

I do disagree with the downplaying of his TD numbers. A point that has been discussed at length on this board is the Dolphins lack of WRs who can get separation in the red zone. Hartlibe is part of that problem. His TD numbers are what they are. And they are concerning.

I didn't downplay his TD numbers. I said they were a concern.

That being said, if not for a couple of Tannehill overthrows, Hartline has 4 TDs instead of 1.

Conversely, if not for a couple of Hartline drops in the endzone, he should really have had about 6-7 TDs on the season.

Quote:

I would be most interested in a rookie to go along with Bess and a FA signing. Otherwise look for a second tier guy when the big money has been spent and a reasonable price can be found.

You'd be discounting that Hartline was Tannehill's security blanket when he needed a first down and a rookie is most likely going to take a while to develop, unless you strike gold.

I don't like the $6 million price, but the market is what it is and it doesn't prevent us from addressing other needs.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:43 pm

jammer

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

The difference between pairing Hartline with Wallace (we hope) and having him with Marshall is that Wallace isn't going to have a feed the beast attitude and require 15-20 targets per game to keep him happy. He's the big play threat and the guy that stretches the defense. Hartline will rack up a ton of catches and hopefully have some more room to operate.

I think he'll have a few more TDs but I'm expecting a nice combo of TD passes across the board as opposed to one guy pulling in 10+.

Jammer - you make some great points about Marshall. It was that attitude why he was never a great fit on the Dolphins. But I also want a guy who does have that feed the beast attitude up to a point. Marshall is a good fit in Chicago because they have a QB that can feed the beast. This is where I see a bit of a problem with Wallace coming here. You see , I feel he will have that feed the beast attitude here. Being the big free agent get on a team with mediocre talent at WR he will command it. I can see a situation where if we resign Hartline he stays Tannehills go to guy & that will get under Wallaces skin. He might take the high road in interviews & we will praise him for that as a team guy but in reality he is a receiver with that ego. This is why (and I know I am the minority) that I wont lose sleep if we dont sign Wallace , Jennings or any other big named guy. To me its about the draft & signing those second tier free agent guys with something to prove. Wallace had Rothlesberger & Jennings had Rogers , when they go to teams with not elite QB's reality will set in for all ... and quickly.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:00 pm

Dphins4me

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Rich wrote:

Why?

If you think about it, the top receivers in the NFL (Megatron, Fitz) are making $16-$18 million a year. Dwayne Bowe just got a deal worth $11-12 million a year. Wallace will probably get $12-13 million a year.

Why is it "extreme" to pay a young, 1000-yard receiver $5-6 million?

Extreme would be to pay Hartline $9-10 million.

Since its an5/6 million average then I'm not concerned with it. Odd are its most likely a 3/4 million deal with a couple of years at the end that Hartline will never see, just to inflate the overall numbers.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:38 pm

Dphins4me

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Rich wrote:

I didn't downplay his TD numbers. I said they were a concern.

That being said, if not for a couple of Tannehill overthrows, Hartline has 4 TDs instead of 1.

Were they Tanny overthrows or the simple fact Miami was using a slower WR that could not get deep?

Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:39 pm

jammer

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

FINesse wrote:

Jammer - you make some great points about Marshall. It was that attitude why he was never a great fit on the Dolphins. But I also want a guy who does have that feed the beast attitude up to a point. Marshall is a good fit in Chicago because they have a QB that can feed the beast. This is where I see a bit of a problem with Wallace coming here. You see , I feel he will have that feed the beast attitude here. Being the big free agent get on a team with mediocre talent at WR he will command it. I can see a situation where if we resign Hartline he stays Tannehills go to guy & that will get under Wallaces skin. He might take the high road in interviews & we will praise him for that as a team guy but in reality he is a receiver with that ego. This is why (and I know I am the minority) that I wont lose sleep if we dont sign Wallace , Jennings or any other big named guy. To me its about the draft & signing those second tier free agent guys with something to prove. Wallace had Rothlesberger & Jennings had Rogers , when they go to teams with not elite QB's reality will set in for all ... and quickly.

Wallace has always been part of productive overall group. As long as he gets TDs, which I think he will, he'll be fine. I agree with others that Tavon Austin might be the pick at 12 so I see Bess being the odd man out. Wallace, Hartline, Austin and a good TE (Keller, Cook, maybe Davis) would be an unreal crew. Defensive coordinators would have fits preparing.

Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:46 pm

phinsfansc

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

jammer wrote:

FINesse wrote:

Jammer - you make some great points about Marshall. It was that attitude why he was never a great fit on the Dolphins. But I also want a guy who does have that feed the beast attitude up to a point. Marshall is a good fit in Chicago because they have a QB that can feed the beast. This is where I see a bit of a problem with Wallace coming here. You see , I feel he will have that feed the beast attitude here. Being the big free agent get on a team with mediocre talent at WR he will command it. I can see a situation where if we resign Hartline he stays Tannehills go to guy & that will get under Wallaces skin. He might take the high road in interviews & we will praise him for that as a team guy but in reality he is a receiver with that ego. This is why (and I know I am the minority) that I wont lose sleep if we dont sign Wallace , Jennings or any other big named guy. To me its about the draft & signing those second tier free agent guys with something to prove. Wallace had Rothlesberger & Jennings had Rogers , when they go to teams with not elite QB's reality will set in for all ... and quickly.

Wallace has always been part of productive overall group. As long as he gets TDs, which I think he will, he'll be fine. I agree with others that Tavon Austin might be the pick at 12 so I see Bess being the odd man out. Wallace, Hartline, Austin and a good TE (Keller, Cook, maybe Davis) would be an unreal crew. Defensive coordinators would have fits preparing.

Jam, one of the reasons I think Tavon can be the pick is because he has the speed to get deep as well, the ability to line up wide. I don't see any reason why Davone cannot be a part of this group.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:12 pm

FrustratedFinFan

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

If this story is true, then it is great news. Miami gets it right and keeps a productive WR. It will be great if we get Wallace and draft another top WR prospect as well. Keeping Hartline saves a pick.....a pick that would not be guaranteed to get the team a starter of Hartline's caliber.

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Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:20 pm

10acjed

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Dphins4me wrote:

Rich wrote:

I didn't downplay his TD numbers. I said they were a concern.

That being said, if not for a couple of Tannehill overthrows, Hartline has 4 TDs instead of 1.

Were they Tanny overthrows or the simple fact Miami was using a slower WR that could not get deep?

Same slower WR he practiced that play with during the week.... And he was fast enough to get behind the DB.. Sounds to me like an over throw..

Its expected, guys get jammed, tripped up etc, all takes away from the route. The QB must adjust his pass accordingly... That stuff is teachable, and I expect less of it this year as he progresses..

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Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:54 am

MdDolfan

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Rich wrote:

shularino wrote:

Paying a middle of the road receiver $6M/yr is extreme

Why?

If you think about it, the top receivers in the NFL (Megatron, Fitz) are making $16-$18 million a year. Dwayne Bowe just got a deal worth $11-12 million a year. Wallace will probably get $12-13 million a year.

Why is it "extreme" to pay a young, 1000-yard receiver $5-6 million?

Extreme would be to pay Hartline $9-10 million.

I agree because if we don't sign him and he goes to New England everybody will want Ireland's head on a stick!

Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:51 am

Kev1321

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

10acjed wrote:

Personally I have not seen one thing done by our current staff and GM that tells me they can find even 1 guy better than Hartline. So until they actually produce a serviceable WR via draft or FA, I would prefer to keep our best WR, even if he is over paid and his stats are padded by a couple huge games....

I love the optimism, but fail to have the same faith in drafting & acquiring FA's at this time.....

Didn't our current GM draft Hartline.

Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:38 am

Rich

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Dphins4me wrote:

Were they Tanny overthrows or the simple fact Miami was using a slower WR that could not get deep?

Tannehill overthrows. Hartline was wide open deep.

They were discussed on these forums ad naseum.

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Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:39 am

10acjed

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

Kev1321 wrote:

Didn't our current GM draft Hartline.

Yes he did. He has drafted 5 in the last 5 drafts, and right now we are discussing whether the difference of 4 - 6 mil annually is worth it to keep the only one that has turned out to be good.....

That is exactly why I would not feel comfortable just letting him walk and thinking we are going to plug the next guy in and be ok..

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Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:04 am

jammer

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Re: Hartline Near a Deal to Stay in Miami

phinsfansc wrote:

Jam, one of the reasons I think Tavon can be the pick is because he has the speed to get deep as well, the ability to line up wide. I don't see any reason why Davone cannot be a part of this group.

I definitely agree that he could be a part of the group for this year, I just meant I see his numbers dwindling most of anyone and he may be allowed to hit the market next offseason if Miami establishes the other guys as their 3 WRs with a solid TE.