FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

AngryDragon:FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Yep,

Ukrainian soldiers gather behind main gate of their base as it's surrounded by Russian commandos.

AngryDragon:FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...

"That appeared to underline reports that Russia has secured control of Crimea without any signs of military engagement. The Russian move was condemned by Secretary of State John Kerry as an "invasion.""

An expert said Russian troop movements in the region were "not unusual."

"You have slosh back and forth twice a year because of conscription. The sight of military personnel on the road is not unusual as they move between bases. And obviously they move back and forth to Russia."

Surely an expert can tell the difference between war preparations and the usual going back and forth of soldiers?

SuperSeriousMan:AngryDragon: FTA: "Hundreds Of Russian Troops Seen On Road To Simferopol ...Twelve military trucks carrying troops, a Tiger vehicle armed with a machine gun and two ambulances were seen by Associated Press journalists on the road heading from Sevastopol - the Crimean port where Russia has its naval base - to Simferopol "

That's an odd definition of both "disappeared" and "normal", but ok.

Read the paragraph after that: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

Seems like subby read the whole article, unlike some other people in this thread...

How does anything that <b>AngryDragon</b> just referred to sound anything like "returns to normal" to you?

12.13pm GMTSummaryHere is a quick summary of the latest developments• Russian and Ukrainian troops are engaged in a tense standoff at a military base in Crimea. The Guardian's Shaun Walker said at least a hundred Russian troops are outside the Perevalnoe base, while the Ukrainians have driven a tank up to the inside gates of the base where 15 Ukrainian soldiers are lined up.• A Ukrainian MP told the Guardian Russian troops are trying to get soldiers to give up their weapons in three locations in Crimea. Kiev has denied Russian media claims that its troops are defecting.• Nato secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen has accused Russia of threatening peace and security in Europe by its actions and of violating the UN charter. He called on Russia to "de-escalate".• The Ukrainian prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said Russia has declared war on Ukraine and that it is not just a threat from Moscow.He warned: "We are on the brink of disaster".• Ukraine's parliament has called for international monitors to help ensure the safety of its nuclear power plants.• French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius has said that planning for the G8 economic summit, scheduled to be held in June at the Black Sea resort of Sochi, site of the just-concluded 2014 Winter Olympics, should be put on hold. The US had already said it would suspend participation in "preparatory meetings".

hobbes0022:This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors? They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab. Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it. He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down. This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet. He is plotting. . .scheming. The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard. (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)

jakomo002:What people tend to forget is that a lot of Ukrainians want nothing to do with the EU.

Their fear is that once the EU calls in the IMF and World Bank, they'll shove "austerity" down people's throats and they'll be thoroughly farked. Or Latvia-ed.

What other people tend to forget is that the way to resolve a question like that is for the people of the Ukraine to use the democratic process at their disposal, not for a neigboring superpower to farking invade and impose its will.

czetie:hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors? They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS. The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

Rhino_man:czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors? They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS. The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

K3rmy:bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab. Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it. He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down. This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet. He is plotting. . .scheming. The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard. (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)

Well, that was equally idiotic no matter what direction you view it from. Spherically stupid, so to speak.

"Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said 'we want Yats in there.' They like him because he's pro Western," says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. "Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism," Signorelli said. "He's the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding," he said.

...

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement "very unpopular measures" to stabilize the country's finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

"The treasury is empty. We will do everything not to default. If we get the financial support from the IMF, the U.S., we will do it. I'm going to be the most unpopular prime minister in the history of my country," he said. "But this is the only solution. I would never promise any kind of huge achievements. First and the most important issue is to stabilize the situation."

At a family function last night my aunt suggested the best way to fix all this would be for us to threaten to nuke everyone involved unless Putin and "the Ukraine president" agreed to a summit at a neutral site -- Wasilla, Alaska -- under the watchful diplomatic wink of America's finest expert on international politics, you betcha.

Yep, it's not even 7:30AM EST and you've already heard the stupidest thing you'll hear all day long.

Wolf_Blitzer:How does anything that <b>AngryDragon</b> just referred to sound anything like "returns to normal" to you?

Oh, I dunno... maybe the paragraph I posted - the one from TFA that was right after the paragraph he posted but (like you) apparently didn't read.

Here, I'll post it again, and this time in nice bold text so even you can't miss it: "However, there were no signs of any troops in Simferopol, or any crowds in the squares where masked gunmen were seen on Saturday."

And here's the next paragraph, just to amplify: "That appeared to underline reports that Russia has secured control of Crimea without any signs of military engagement."

czetie:K3rmy: bah, it was nothing more than an attempted land grab. Putin had no muscle behind it and he knew it. He withdrew the troops as he knew that they could not withstand a wayward wind blowing to hit them and Hopey McChange was not a person he could show his face in the world after (appearing to be) punked down. This is not to say that Russia has no forces worth reckoning with - they simply did not send any to play in Crimea.

Putin is not done there yet. He is plotting. . .scheming. The US may currently have a helmet-headed special needs child as president but those types tend to hit hard. (The exception was Chimpy McFlightsuit who was too busy spending time at his ranch at the beginning of his first term to do anything of consequence)

Well, that was equally idiotic no matter what direction you view it from. Spherically stupid, so to speak.

czetie:Rhino_man: czetie: hobbes0022: This doesn't even feel real, major modern countries like Russia still invade their neighbors? They didn't even call them an axis of evil.

If Putin insists that sending troops into another country is "legitimately protecting Russia's interests" just because some of them are ethnically Russian, then I have a horrible feeling that we're all about to learn the Russian words for "Lebensraum" and "Volksdeutsche".

Also noteworthy that Putin doesn't feel at all the same way about ethnic non-Russians who want to break away from Russia...

Farking THIS. The whole thing has just been echoes of "DANZIG IST DEUTSCHE" to me.

jakomo002:Fail in Human Form: The Ukrainian prime minister, Arseny Yatsenyuk, said Russia has declared war on Ukraine and that it is not just a threat from Moscow.He warned: "We are on the brink of disaster".

"Recall the phone exchange between the Ukraine ambassador and Victoria Nuland (Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs) that got leaked out, where she basically said 'we want Yats in there.' They like him because he's pro Western," says Vladimir Signorelli, president of boutique investment research firm Bretton Woods Research LLC in New Jersey. "Yatsenyuk is the the kind of technocrat you want if you want austerity, with the veneer of professionalism," Signorelli said. "He's the type of guy who can hobnob with the European elite. A Mario Monti type: unelected and willing to do the IMFs bidding," he said.

...

Also today, Yatsenyuk promised to implement "very unpopular measures" to stabilize the country's finances. The government said it needs $35 billion to support the country over the next two years. His language in a news report broadcast by Bloomberg today indicates he is heading toward a potentially destabilizing austerity campaign:

"The treasury is empty. We will do everything not to default. If we get the financial support from the IMF, the U.S., we will do it. I'm going to be the most unpopular prime minister in the history of my country," he said. "But this is the only solution. I would never promise any kind of huge achievements. First and the most important issue is to stabilize the situation."

Yatsenyuk is "your guy", America, and nobody trusts you.

Ukraine does not have to be part of either the EU or Russia. But if you are faced with the choice of either austerity or defaulting on debt, it's not a matter of what the EU will do for you, it's a matter of how to continue to function without runaway inflation and no money to pay for infrastructure.