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So it's more or less as I thought, violence is only there to impress players, as some other things too, like the lesbian theme. Just to look appealing to more broad demographics. Just ticking the bullet points on the corporate sheet. The violence would be more meaningful, if there were fewer acts of it, and if the combat didn't mean slaughtering people by the numbers. And it all falls further apart, when she gets shot, and she reacts to it as if it was a moskito sting, and not something really serious. Everything Naughty Dog built here is only to add to a new level of titillation for the players. I bet one of the devs stumbled onto something like Blood Meridian by Cormack McCarthy, and thought "OMG, this is so cool, we have to have something like that in our video game". This is a childish excitement.

Not sure if playing the context card is enough excuse any longer. That might have been true for the teaser trailer. The gameplay itself tells a story, and the way systems work does that too. No elaborate backstory would explain the disconnect here. Seems like someone's pretending to be serious to get better shock value. Even juxtaposition of the two scenes shows that, it's almost feels desperate. The only thing here is, that they have a great budget and production, so everything looks phenomenal. But that doesn't mean that it's clever or mature.

I'm not saying the trailer wasn't chosen for its shock and titillation factor, but the original The Last of Us presentation pulled the exact same crap - it looked like violence for the sake of it. Turned out you could, in fact, stealth through a decent portion of the game, and the game more than made amends for the sins of shallowness in its initial trailer by pulling off one of the best character-driven stories in video games I've ever experienced.

I'm willing to extend TLoU 2 the same benefit of a doubt because of that context. It's important like that.

I'm with Sulphur on this one, based on Naughty Dog's work on the original The Last of Us. That's enough for me to give them the benefit of the doubt: because exactly the same thing happened with the first game.

I still don't get how people are complaining that this game/trailer is too violent. There are other games with far more violence and gore (Resident Evil, Manhunt, Condemned, Dead Space all come to mind). I think part of it is because they are showing off a very realistic world, with believable characters and settings. This makes the the violence seems very real, unlike other games which end up more gamey and cartoonlike, or just plain over the top. But don't tell me there aren't hundreds of games where the protagonist is shot and they just shake it off like it's nothing, or where bad guys are slaughtered by the numbers. Anyone who claims that is just kidding themselves.

Sorry guys, I love you all, and maybe it's because you have kids now or something, but you're all just sounding like a bunch of giant pansies.

I think part of it is because they are showing off a very realistic world, with believable characters and settings. This makes the the violence seems very real, unlike other games which end up more gamey and cartoonlike, or just plain over the top.

Yup, the biggest thing here I guess is the animations. It looks like every character has their weight and momentum, and they took extra care to create these moments of agony, when characters are stabbed to death. That looks disturbing and with all the fidelity it looks like it would fit into some serious narrative. Like a really good book, or movie, where violence is dosed carefuly, and killing someone carries its weight, so there's like one or two dead bodies for the whole story. But here it's just a dressing to typical shooty bang-bang. Audiovisual department is hanging out with the big dogs, but gameplay design team is still a bunch of puppies.

I'm getting a little tired of the gratuitous violence, too. It's hard to try to defend video games as art when the phrase "brutal takedown" is becoming an increasingly more common descriptor of game mechanics.

That said, I haven't played either of the lasts of us, and if they're as good as you all say, I guess I should give them a try when I inevitably get a PS4.

As an aside from the all the violence talk (altho somewhat related), I noticed in the demo that there is actually a visibility meter in the bottom right corner. Nice! That indicates that stealth will play a much larger role than in the first game. There's also apparently a jump button now, which opens even more possibilities for level design. The level shown in the demo looked more open and just bigger in general, both good things. I'm sure it won't be "open world" but it seems overall like it could be a whole lot less linear.

...and I thought I was describing myself. Okay, I'm gonna do you a solid because - however improbable this seemed - you still don't get it: next time you want to enter a thread swinging, try to avoid aiming at strawmen.

Not a single fungus zombie, but plenty of gut cutting and intestine pulling... I was a bit dissapointed in that.
Game looks absolutely stunning though, I know 90% of that “gameplay trailer” is scripted and heavily modified, but daym!
Watched the Death Stranding gameplay trailer right after and, despite all its hype, that game looked shite by comparison.

I still don't get how people are complaining that this game/trailer is too violent. There are other games with far more violence and gore (Resident Evil, Manhunt, Condemned, Dead Space all come to mind). I think part of it is because they are showing off a very realistic world, with believable characters and settings. This makes the the violence seems very real, unlike other games which end up more gamey and cartoonlike, or just plain over the top. But don't tell me there aren't hundreds of games where the protagonist is shot and they just shake it off like it's nothing, or where bad guys are slaughtered by the numbers. Anyone who claims that is just kidding themselves.

I think you got it all wrong. People aren't complaining that the game/trailer is too violent. People are complaining that the violence is gratuitous. The violence doesn't look real, it looks over the top and gory, like in a grindhouse movie.

I'm doubting I'll ever convince you or Judith on anything, but at least consider this. You'll arguing that the trailer's violence is gratuitous, which basically means it has no context (although for every article that claims this, I can find one that doesn't). But the trailer for the first game was same way, it didn't reveal anything about the game itself. And it seems obvious that's exactly how Naughty Dog wants it. They don't want you to know anything going in. So it's almost impossible to have context of any kind. If you've played the first game, then you know that there are multiple scenes of violence which match up equally with anything seen in this new trailer. But no one who's played the original would argue they're gratuitous because the story has given them context.

So I went back in this thread and made note of who was criticizing the violence. You (Starker), Judith, and Aja. Which also happens to be all people who haven't played the first game. So maybe ND is specifically targeting people who've played the first game. Don't get me wrong, you can definitely argue its a shitty trailer, because it doesn't explain anything. But people who played Part 1 are going to understand the context way more than people who haven't.

As far as the violent scenes being "over the top and gory," I can't really help you there because I don't agree. People getting shot, stabbed in the neck, even eviscerated, sure it's all harsh. But it's not anything that couldn't happen in real life. It's not like we're watching Kill Bill or Evil Dead or anything.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not making an argument here, just voicing my opinion. And I have watched the entire first game on Youtube, for what it's worth. Also, you can add Sulphur and Malf on your list. No idea if they have played the first game, though.

Gratuitous doesn't just mean without context, it also means things like unwarranted, unjustified, uncalled for, done without a good reason. None of it seems necessary to put in a trailer like this. Especially considering the serious tone of the first game. Yes, people can get killed in real life in gruesome ways, but just because you can put something in a trailer doesn't mean you should. Some people are nudists in real life, it doesn't mean you therefore should have people walk around with their tits out in your game/trailer.

It's kind of like the "sex scenes" in the brothel in the Thief reboot -- they feel entirely like they are there just for the titillation of the player.

I'm doubting I'll ever convince you or Judith on anything, but at least consider this. You'll arguing that the trailer's violence is gratuitous, which basically means it has no context (although for every article that claims this, I can find one that doesn't). But the trailer for the first game was same way, it didn't reveal anything about the game itself. And it seems obvious that's exactly how Naughty Dog wants it. They don't want you to know anything going in. So it's almost impossible to have context of any kind. If you've played the first game, then you know that there are multiple scenes of violence which match up equally with anything seen in this new trailer. But no one who's played the original would argue they're gratuitous because the story has given them context.

So I went back in this thread and made note of who was criticizing the violence. You (Starker), Judith, and Aja. Which also happens to be all people who haven't played the first game. So maybe ND is specifically targeting people who've played the first game. Don't get me wrong, you can definitely argue its a shitty trailer, because it doesn't explain anything. But people who played Part 1 are going to understand the context way more than people who haven't.

As far as the violent scenes being "over the top and gory," I can't really help you there because I don't agree. People getting shot, stabbed in the neck, even eviscerated, sure it's all harsh. But it's not anything that couldn't happen in real life. It's not like we're watching Kill Bill or Evil Dead or anything.

Let's start with your last paragraph here. No one on this page had complained that the game is 'too violent' at the point you made your condescension known. This is your strawman. The posts from 2017... well, if you want to address that now that's up to you.

Context is the actual problem. At this point I wouldn't even call the violence gratuitous. My original point here was that to someone who hasn't played TLoU, all this detailed gore would seem callous, there to make the game seem all edgy and grimdark - and that's exactly what happened. It's poor marketing, and it's a mistake they made the first time around, so it's disheartening having to see people misread their abilities again when the quality is clearly there. TLoU isn't about cheap thrills, but apparently the people behind their trailers don't know that.

For reference, hilariously enough, we're both on the same side. Now, if you want to bring people over to your side of the argument, pay better attention and maybe stop insulting them next time.

TLoU isn't about cheap thrills, but apparently the people behind their trailers don't know that.

I don't think the gore is about cheap thrills at all, its about setting the tone of a harsh and unforgiving world where the few remaining humans have turned into beast and death or worse is as likely as anything... Someone mentioned the movie The Road earlier in this thread, and I compared this gameplay trailer to that movie when I was talking to somone at work about it a few days ago... Did we need all of the gore and unpleasanties of that movie? An immediate response might be "no, we did not" but I personally think it did the exact same thing... Helped convey an understandig of the world of wich the movie is set within.