MOD NOTE: This thread was originally titled "Make BOB part of the website," but since clickable maps has already been implemented as well as Automatic Snapshots, the most significant part of the functionality that should be considered is the game start snapshot functionality that BOB offers. It is now the thread for discussion of integrating game start snapshot technology into the website.

Foxglove wrote:Concise description:Currently game state snapshot functionality is available through the BOB add-on. Turn-by-turn game state snapshots should be implemented on CC, and should be accessible to every player.

Implement a game state snapshot at the start of the game

Implement a game state snapshot after each player's turn

Ideally:

Game state snapshots should be accessible from the Game Log

Users should have the option to take a manual snapshot (mid turn, for example)

Users should be able to click a link or button to view the differences between two sequential snapshots

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

This will make game state information available to every player, not just players who use the BOB addon.

This will solve every problem with the "12 hour fog rule" that is often used by clans and players in team games. If game snapshots are implemented by the site, and automatically available to every player, there will be no need for gentleperson's agreements about when a player can take a turn, and what information must be revealed if the agreement isn't respected.

This will allow players of fog games to more easily switch between devices (computers/tablets/phones/etc) without relying on addons.

This will help eliminate some of the advantage that veterans have over new players, by making all information easily available to each player.

Heck, just including BOB as part of the standard set of validation tests for updates prior to releasing them would be fine with me. I assume that updates are pushed to a development server and tested thoroughly before they get sent to the real servers. Just make sure at least one of the tests uses a BOB-enabled browser (probably one test with Chrome and one with Firefox+Greasemonkey).

kizkiz wrote:Seconded.I know BOB is an after market add on, but it's such an integral part of the game for almost every player it would make sense to do this

Really? Do you have any evidence for that?It seems to me that every time it's mentioned, someone asks what it is, so I'd think it's far from universal, but I don't have any statistics.It may be normal for the serious players but I'd be interested to see how many actually do use it, especially amongst freemiums. I don't, for one...

kizkiz wrote:Seconded.I know BOB is an after market add on, but it's such an integral part of the game for almost every player it would make sense to do this

Really? Do you have any evidence for that?It seems to me that every time it's mentioned, someone asks what it is, so I'd think it's far from universal, but I don't have any statistics.It may be normal for the serious players but I'd be interested to see how many actually do use it, especially amongst freemiums. I don't, for one...

kizkiz wrote:Seconded.I know BOB is an after market add on, but it's such an integral part of the game for almost every player it would make sense to do this

Really? Do you have any evidence for that?It seems to me that every time it's mentioned, someone asks what it is, so I'd think it's far from universal, but I don't have any statistics.It may be normal for the serious players but I'd be interested to see how many actually do use it, especially amongst freemiums. I don't, for one...

Depends what statistic you want. (And no, I don't have any, but I've read discussions of this nature before.) Taken as a percentage of all users, only a small minority use it. However, if you consider some smaller subgroup it becomes more and more common. Among the hard-core players who are the backbone of the Tournament world and the Clan world, I'm estimating it as better than 80%.

But to me, the important thing is not BOB itself, but the features that come with it, which seem to me as no-brainer things that would be included in the basic game. For instance, the fact that when you mouse over a tert, the places you can attack from there are highlighted. It just seems like an obvious feature that should come with the game itself. Why should you need an add-on to do something so seemingly obvious? It's because the existence of scripts like BOB saved the developer the need to improve the basic game engine. Why spend your own resources to add a feature when unpaid volunteers will add it for you? It's high time these things were incorporated into the game itself.

However a decent argument would be that the people who make the greasemonkey BOB script also do a much better job at it, and don't take much time to update and improve relatively. I'm not saying that BOB wouldn't be nice as a part of the site, however for new people or 1x for existing users without have a PM that notifies them of the scripts existence with maybe a link if they are interested in downloading the script might help.

aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

kizkiz wrote:Seconded.I know BOB is an after market add on, but it's such an integral part of the game for almost every player it would make sense to do this

Really? Do you have any evidence for that?It seems to me that every time it's mentioned, someone asks what it is, so I'd think it's far from universal, but I don't have any statistics.It may be normal for the serious players but I'd be interested to see how many actually do use it, especially amongst freemiums. I don't, for one...

"integral"? hardly.... sure, many players use it, but it's certainly not mandatory to do so... IMO, it's a nice add-on, and occasional screen-shot use etc is nice, but certainly not critical... i'd say it's biggest use is with players who are in clans and use it in team games on a regular basis.. but I believe you overestimate it's use...

Concise description:Currently game state snapshot functionality is available through the BOB add-on. Turn-by-turn game state snapshots should be implemented on CC, and should be accessible to every player.

Implement a game state snapshot at the start of the game

Implement a game state snapshot after each player's turn

Ideally:

Game state snapshots should be accessible from the Game Log

Users should have the option to take a manual snapshot (mid turn, for example)

Users should be able to click a link or button to view the differences between two sequential snapshots

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

This will make game state information available to every player, not just players who use the BOB addon.

This will solve every problem with the "12 hour fog rule" that is often used by clans and players in team games. If game snapshots are implemented by the site, and automatically available to every player, there will be no need for gentleperson's agreements about when a player can take a turn, and what information must be revealed if the agreement isn't respected.

This will allow players of fog games to more easily switch between devices (computers/tablets/phones/etc) without relying on addons.

This will help eliminate some of the advantage that veterans have over new players, by making all information easily available to each player.

Last edited by Foxglove on Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

This would be amazing, especially if it worked across different browsers. Would even the playing field and speed the game up. Forget no attacks on first turn why did that get a poll thread in general. Put this to a vote!!!!!