Ann Coulter: fraudulent Republican voter

She may be smart enough to earn millions from her acidic political barbs, but when it comes to something as simple as voting in her tiny hometown, hard-core conservative pundit Ann Coulter is a tad confused.

Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections records show Coulter voted last week in Palm Beach’s council election. Problem is: She cast her ballot in a precinct 4 miles north of the precinct where she owns a home. […] Coulter, who owns a $1.8 million crib on Seabreeze Avenue, should have voted in Precinct 1198. It covers most homes on her street. Instead, records show, she voted in Precinct 1196, at the northern tip of the island.

According to the Palm Beach Post, Coulter registered (as a Republican) on June 24, three months after she moved from NYC to Palm Beach, but signed and certified as true the Indian Road address of her realtor rather than that of her Seabreeze Avenue home.

“She never lived here,” said Suzanne Frisbie, owner of the Indian Road home. “I’m Ann’s Realtor, and she used this address to forward mail when she moved from New York.”

The article implies that Coulter may have given a false address for privacy reasons… hell, if I were Coulter, I wouldn’t want people to know where I lived either. So I’m guessing she’ll probably get off with a warning or a token fine, despite the fact that Florida law makes it a third-degree felony to knowingly vote in the wrong precinct, and punishes lying on one’s voter registration by up to $5,000 and five years behind bars.

Meanwhile, over at the Way-Back Machine, our friend Stefan is still fighting WA’s 2004 gubernatorial election, arguing in part that incorrect registrations — similar to Coulter’s — are proof of widespread voter fraud, and a corrupt, inept King County elections department. To Stefan and his overlords in the state and local GOP, a duplicate registration equals a duplicate vote, and a voter registered at a wrong address is evidence of intentional voter fraud. And they continue to vilify KC elections director Dean Logan as an incompetent and a criminal who refuses to fix the county’s voter rolls.

Stefan likes to talk about public trust, but what he and his fellow travelers fail to comprehend — or at least, refuse to admit — is that nationwide, our whole voter registration system is based on trusting the public. So in case Stefan has missed this point every other time an experienced elections expert has made it, perhaps he should pay close attention to the closing paragraphs from the article on Coulter’s Florida foibles:

“We’re not a policing agency,” says Elections Chief Deputy Charmaine Kelly. “You do not have to show proof that you live at your address. But when you sign the registration application, you also take an oath that everything you wrote is the truth.

“If someone brings us proof that a person falsified a registration, we’ll check into it, then refer the matter to the state attorney’s office if necessary.”

When it comes to voter registration, Palm Beach County has nearly identical policies and procedures to King County… and nearly every other jurisdiction in the nation. And it is quite frankly mind boggling that after 16 months on his OCD-like electoral procedure jag, Stefan still doesn’t seem to have a clue as to how elections actually operate.

If Stefan and the state GOP want to argue that our current registration system results in widespread voter fraud, I say, show me the proof of widespread voter fraud. Don’t just show me the duplicate registrations… show me the duplicate votes. Go ahead, argue the case for making it dramatically more difficult to vote.

But to continue to excoriate Logan for failing to police registrations when it is clearly not his job to do so, is just plain dishonest.

It also intentionally destroys the public trust in elections that Stefan and his cohorts cynically claim they are trying to restore.

In one sense, I agree with you, I mean it is sour grapes since Sound Politics has been at this since 2004. On the other hand, that guy Sharkansky has exposed a lot of obvious garbage in the voter databse that really does need to be fixed. The voter registration DB tends to be an ongoing mishmash of whatever has been entered over time. Every clerical error and improper registration since the dawn of electronic storage appears to be in the DB. The DB is not a very accurate representation of voters. It really should be cleaned up. This whole issue between the two of you is just a political tug of war. I don’t take either of you seriously.

And how come your comments are populated by the same 10 people posting hundreds of times? Can’t you foster any meaningful, rational debate, or is this just a place for loonies on both sides to scribble their tantrums?

Does someone actually have a copy of Ann Coulter’s voter registration form? The reason I ask — federal law requires that voter registration records be updated if someone puts in a forwarding order with the post office. Apparently, Coulter was having all of her mail forwarded to her real estate agent’s address. If Coulter had registered at her actual residence, but had a forwarding order in effect, then her voter registration card would have been returned to the county election office, along with a sticker with the forwarding address. (Voter registration cards and absentee ballots don’t get forwarded, so that they can be returned to the elections office for them to get the new forwarding address.) This would result in Coulter’s voter registration address being changed from her correct residence address to her real estate agent’s address.

This kind of thing happens every day in King County. Someone requests their mail to be forwarded to a private mailbox facility. Pretty soon, their voter registration also gets changed to the private mailbox facility.

The voter registration DB tends to be an ongoing mishmash of whatever has been entered over time. Every clerical error and improper registration since the dawn of electronic storage appears to be in the DB.

Tell us all knowing one. What county in this country of the same size or bigger with similar resources does a better job than King in its elections department? How do they do it?

Bring something meaningful to the table and quit your bitching about the posters here. Right now you have zero credibility.

Btw, anyone catch Stephan’s latest rants? Apparently there are too many people registered with a birthday of Jan 1. And since all of those names are foreign, clearly this is an example of massive illegal voting by brown people.

Even when faced with a plausible explanation (immigrants who don’t know their birthday when they arrive at the US are assigned Jan 1 as a birth date), the only response was something like “King County Elections should be held accountable for not explaining this”.

As I suspected, there’s a perfectly logical explanation when a Florida republican makes a mistake but it’s FRAUD when it happens to a King County grandmother. Man these right wing fucks are transparent!

39 Democrats use the same King County “guvment” building second floor office address to vote. NO problem here! ……..Ann votes down the street froma property she owns and pays thousands in property taxes, and Goldybergstein has a hissy. Classic!

Port-au-Prince, Haiti — Hundreds of smashed ballot boxes and bags apparently used to carry vote count sheets were scattered across a garbage dump Wednesday, more than a week after Haiti’s disputed presidential elections. U.N. officials sent troops to the garbage dump five miles north of the capital to recover the election material, according to U.N. spokesman David Wimhurst, who called the discovery ‘’extraordinary.’’ [Detroit, Milwaukee, Broward County, Oakland, Harare, and Port-au-Prince……….Gee, Libs, What do these “solid Democrat voting coties all have in common? RR? GBS? Left Turn?]

“”We’re not a policing agency,” says Elections Chief Deputy Charmaine Kelly. “You do not have to show proof that you live at your address. But when you sign the registration application, you also take an oath that everything you wrote is the truth.

“If someone brings us proof that a person falsified a registration, we’ll check into it, then refer the matter to the state attorney’s office if necessary.””

See, that’s exactly the kind of lack of understanding of the process that leads to much of Stefan’s hyperbole. The voter database is a living database, with tens of thousands of new, canceled and changed registrations a month. To look at a snap shot of it and find errors, and then say it needs to be cleaned up, ignores the facts that it is routinely cleaned up at regular intervals, but that new errors are introduced daily.

I have good friends on both ends of the political spectrum (honest, it IS possible). When asked by the conservatives why I vote Democratic, it is these instances which first come to my mind. The Republican party has become so hypocritical that they just don’t understand (or care) that what’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. Don’t like the way elections are conducted? Then reform the system across the state – not just in the counties which voted Democratic. Prosecute those who vote with a bad address? Then do it to right-wing radicals in Florida, as well as left-wing Democrats in King County, if they did in fact break the law. Argue that it is unpatriotic to criticize the President? If you argue that point, you had better be prepared to shut your mouth when the President is a Democrat as well as a Republican.

Goldy is spot on @ 29. It’s pretty damnned simple. You register, you vote. You change your address, you tell the elections dept. It’s pretty stupid, and difficult, to register 10 different precincts. It’s a pain to obtain 10 different ID’s. “Massive voter fraud” in King County is a partisan myth. You know folks, it is about trusting the people.

So why don’t republicans trust the people? The very question answers itself.

OK, point taken, but that doesn’t mean that there should no be ongoing efforts to expose and correct all of the flaws. I mean, if as in SP’s latest post, there are indeed a number of voters that arbitraily selected January 1st as a birthdate, those are still corrections that need to be made, lest there be someone voting who does not have the right. Or, as in the case of Ann Coulter like registrations, at business addresses and other non-residence addresses, I am sure like you are, that the vast majority of those are people who simply want some kind of convenience address, and have improperly listed the mailing address in place of the residence address. But that does not justify allowing all incorrect addresses to simply stand. Isn’t that what the provisional votes are for? If someone does not take the time to register properly, then what is the problem with combing through the database and clearing all of this up? Despite what you say, it does not appear that the preening process has been run on a consistent basis. Just look at what Sharkansky has uncovered. Many of the problems appear quite likely to be legacy errors, clerical or otherwise.

It’s as disingenuous to fear registration database cleanup just as it is to claim there was intentional fraud in 2004. The point is that the system is quite easy to exploit and that’s bad for everyone. I find you to be equally given to hyperbole defending a broken system as Sharkansky is to pointing out where it is broken.

Well, it definately will not be treated as a felony, because the GOP need her more than ever. Also, isn’t Florida a state where once you have been convicted of a felony, you cannot get your Voting Rights restored, ever?

Goldy is given to hyperbole as a matter of course, but what he says is essentially correct.

The GOP is great at “hot button issues”, but exhibits an abysmal track record when it comes to solving them. The right excorciates government employees as inept and lazy. They scream for taxes to be reduced. Then they turn around and scream hysterically for a “perfect” voting system, regardless of costs. They scream for subsidies. They insist of mandatory sentencing and more prisons, regardless of the cost. They want to spend billions to build an inpenetrable fence along the US-Mexican border. They are foolish. They are corrupt. They are hypocrites. They are fucking nuts.

“They want to spend billions to build an inpenetrable fence along the US-Mexican border.” [PTBAA] Why not try land mines? After a few Mexicans blow, I figure the rest will stop coming. The Dems will lose new voters, though.

You are wrong, Lt. Fuckwad. We have built it. They will come. And if every single one of them become US citizens, by all means, it will be great if they all vote Democratic. Deal with it, Hawaii 2 1/2 duooh!

Apparently not. The rest of your comments following the three words quoted indicate that you still do not get it. You misunderstand the nature, function of, and even the size of the database!

“but that doesn’t mean that there should no be ongoing efforts to expose and correct all of the flaws.”

There are such efforts. Along with many correct database transactions, every day, new errors flow in and old errors get corrected. Ever business day.

“I mean, if as in SP’s latest post, there are indeed a number of voters that arbitraily selected January 1st as a birthdate, those are still corrections that need to be made, lest there be someone voting who does not have the right.”

Sorry…you are incorrect. Apparently you have never worked with very large databases of this sort. In such large databases (i.e. the size of the voter population of the state or even just KC) there will be a tiny fraction of people who will not know their birth date—only their birth year. But, when you multiply that tiny fraction by 4 million people (or however many there are in the DB) you get a bigish number. For many databases applications, a “placeholder” birth month and day (i.e. Jan 1) is used rather than having a missing month and day.

“Or, as in the case of Ann Coulter like registrations, at business addresses and other non-residence addresses”

Sure…if it were only that easy. Many business addresses are also residential addresses, of course.

“I am sure like you are, that the vast majority of those are people who simply want some kind of convenience address, and have improperly listed the mailing address in place of the residence address.”

Nope…that probably accounts for only a small fraction. Most are probably homeless.

“But that does not justify allowing all incorrect addresses to simply stand. Isn’t that what the provisional votes are for?”

Huh?????

“If someone does not take the time to register properly, then what is the problem with combing through the database and clearing all of this up?”

Yes…we all agree with that. In fact, it should particularly be done between (major) elections so that the voter can be contacted by elections officials and have a chance to correct their registration well before an election. This begs the question of why the GOP held onto their list of bad registrations until the voter roles had closed….

“Despite what you say, it does not appear that the preening process has been run on a consistent basis.”

You would be wrong. KC occasionally has a press releases discussing the number of corrections made. The numbers are substantial.

“Just look at what Sharkansky has uncovered. Many of the problems appear quite likely to be legacy errors, clerical or otherwise.”

This is really a problem of wingnuts being innumerate. Sharkansky has found only a tiny tiny fraction of errors. He parades each individual error as if some huge triumph because he knows that innumerates like you will not recognize that each error is a tiny tiny fraction of the total database.

“It’s as disingenuous to fear registration database cleanup just as it is to claim there was intentional fraud in 2004.”

But, it is disingenuous to claim that anyone fears cleaning up the database. NOBODY DOES!!!!! You’ve been brainwashed to believe people fear cleaning the database, but it ain’t so! It is uSP/wingnut radio propaganda!

“The point is that the system is quite easy to exploit and that’s bad for everyone. I find you to be equally given to hyperbole defending a broken system as Sharkansky is to pointing out where it is broken.”

Sharkansky has not show that the system is broken. He has shown that there is a very tiny fraction of the database entries with invalid or incorrect information. We knew that already, thanks.

I mean, it is fine for Sharkansky to help the State clean up errors, if that is what he wants to do. But, to imply that that the election system is somehow broken because he can find errors is complete bullshit (i.e. people know there are errors in the database, and errors are being corrected without Sharkansky’s help all the time).

My apologies, marks. If Lt(jg) Fuckwad was not such a young whipper-snapper, I’d say he bore a startling resemblance to Capt. Morton in “Mr. Roberts” (well, that and the fact he obviously never made it to “capitan”).

You made some good points. But the statement that most of those using business addresses are homeless is wrong. So homeless people are listing real estate offices, and other prominent and quite successful businesses as their addresses? I find that quite hard to believe. And I’m not even talking about the truly homeless, which I assume to be a quite small percentage of the total voters. I’m talking about legitimate voters with legitimate legal residences who have simply filled out the form incorrectly. I’ve got no problem with handling these corrections between major elections, but the general public simply does not buy the excuse that improper registrations should be allowed to stand.

I see your point, and Goldy’s that corrections are being made on a continual basis, but I’ve woked with large databases in the past, and it is easy to see that no one at the King County elections office is making an effort to do the kind of cross checking that Sharkansky is doing otherwise he would not be finding a lot of these obvious errors. The corrections that are being made on a daily basis are mostly only whatever is being called to their attention. I never doubted that they correct what is pointed out to them, the problem is what is not pointed out.

As you demonstrate, the DB here is large. There is no way that it will ever be accurate to the degee required to validate every registration in an extremely close statewide election if we just sit and wait for voters to correct their registration mistakes, many of which they may not even be aware of, such as improper use of a business address in place of the mailing address. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not making a case for disallowing these voters as the GOP did, right before the election. The issue is that if the DB remains in a state where there are a even a small percentage of obviously improper registrations, then there will always be a problem when it comes time to verify voters in a close election. It’s obviously impossible to connect the vote to the registration, and that is precisely the problem. If there is an invalid entry in the registry, that could result in an illegal vote. The registration databse is the only real defense of a clean election given secret ballots.

A big part of this problem also lies in the methodology of conducting the election. In the real world, when large batch reconciliation processes are conducted against a large DB, the DB is frozen such that no changes can be made. This is the only way it is possible to verify the integrity of the DB before and after a large operation. Yet King County continually processes registrations, even during elections. There is plenty of room for confusion.

If large sweeps checking for obvious problems such as business addresses in the residence address field, etc. were conducted, with letters mailed out to voters to correct the problem or have their registration made inactive, etc. that would go a long way towards eliminating the data mining that Sharkansky is doing that continually paints Logan in a bad light.

I’m fully aware that some of this is underway now that the state has a consolidated database, and that 4 million records may even seem like a large number even though there are many other public and private databases that make this look quite small . But there should be no surprise that polls consistently show the public does not find the process to have been conducted particularly well up to this point.

What determines whether the system is broken is the perception of its ability to provide an accurate result. If I tell you to time a Formula One race with the second hand on your watch, it’s not going to be easy for you to determine the outcome if two cars cross the line at almost the same time. I’m not saying it is anyone’s fault that the system is what it is, or that the decision was not final given the hand recount and the letter of the law. But the polls indicate that most of the people in the state are not satisfied with the accuracy of the close election, and a critical element of that accuracy is the ability to determine whether a particular ballot should be given to a voter, and then if that ballot should be counted. The registration database is the heart of the matter.

When Ann Coulter dies, I will drive a wooden stake into her grave so that she will not rise from the dead at night and suck blood from innocents. Then I will pee on her grave. Maybe I will take a dog with me and have the dog crap on her grave. Maybe the wooden stake will be long enough to hold a big sign that would read “Thank God, Ann Coulter is dead” or “Peeing here wins heaven points”

Wells, thats just silly and a testament to todays generation of folks who only have gotten information from tv and movies. You’ve got to bury her at a cross-road along with the stake to keep her from walking.

Palm Beach Florida huh. Isn’t that where they had the parade of donks who said they were disenfranchised because they couldn’t read the ballot. Thank god for Kathline Harris. Palm and Dade tried to pull a “King County” but where stopped.

….it is easy to see that no one at the King County elections office is making an effort to do the kind of cross checking that Sharkansky is doing otherwise he would not be finding a lot of these obvious errors.

No, it is not easy to see. You present an absurd assertion with absolutely no evidence to back it up. Why not ask to speak with an elections official and see for yourself? But no, you’d rather bask in the easy pathological liar’s universe created by partisan paranoids.

What determines whether the system is broken is the perception of its ability to provide an accurate result.

A claim that is stunning in its mendacity, and utterly absurd.

If there is an invalid entry in the registry, that could result in an illegal vote.

Does not necessarily follow, and therefore the point you are trying to make is utterly lacking in validity.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency moved in to repossess trailers from a St. Rose mobile home park Friday because hurricane victims occupied only five of the 55 federally owned trailers there, an agency spokeswoman said Tuesday. FEMA officials made the discovery at the property owned by New Orleans River View LLC as part of a routine inspection of trailer recipients under the Business Restart program. [Looks like you Democrats will have to give the trailers back!! Hit the streets, losers!]

“To look at a snap shot of it and find errors, and then say it needs to be cleaned up, ignores the facts that it is routinely cleaned up at regular intervals, but that new errors are introduced daily.”

If this statement is true, then the process is broken and needs to be fixed. I’m not saying the voter database can ever be pristine. But to accept that errors are introduced daily is unacceptable. No bank would even that data entry error rate.

“But the statement that most of those using business addresses are homeless is wrong. So homeless people are listing real estate offices, and other prominent and quite successful businesses as their addresses?”

Perhaps I misunderstood…I thought you were talking primarily about people registered at Mailboxes, Etc. and storage facilities. Since I don’t read uSP, perhaps there are some other “business” addresses that have popped up in Stefan’s quixotic search that I haven’t heard about. A big chunk of the Maiboxes people are homeless I believe.

“And I’m not even talking about the truly homeless, which I assume to be a quite small percentage of the total voters.”

And I am assuming that they are a fairly large fraction of the folks registered at business addresses. I have no empirical data on that, though…do you?

I’m talking about legitimate voters with legitimate legal residences who have simply filled out the form incorrectly.”

Well…you have a point there. If you only consider legitamate voters with legal residences who registered at a business, then, nearly 100% of them are non-homeless people improperly registered…ummm…really by definition.

“I’ve got no problem with handling these corrections between major elections, but the general public simply does not buy the excuse that improper registrations should be allowed to stand.”

I don’t think most people give a rats ass about the issue. Most people care a lot more about accuracy in elections, rather than accuracy in registrations…. As I discuss below, a huge effort in cleaning registration makes almost no difference to the accuracy of an election.

“I see your point, and Goldy’s that corrections are being made on a continual basis, but I’ve woked with large databases in the past, and it is easy to see that no one at the King County elections office is making an effort to do the kind of cross checking that Sharkansky is doing otherwise he would not be finding a lot of these obvious errors.”

Sorry…but you will have to be a little more quantitative. How many voter-initiated transactions are processed per day? How many KC-initiated corrections are made per day? How many errors is Sharkansky finding (and verifying to some reasonable standard) per day?

From what I hear about Sharkansky’s latest journeys, he finds many potential errors, but very few are verified to any certainty. Remember, the KC GOP had a pathetic accuracy rate (under 20% as I recall) in their voter challenges using their own data mining without cross-validation of each error. That’s NOT good enough for government work. Specifically, you DO NOT take away people’s fundamental right to vote based on a possible or even a likely error. Errors must be checked carefully or the county would be committing a crime against people.

The corrections that are being made on a daily basis are mostly only whatever is being called to their attention.

Sorry…you statement is factually wrong. Check out some of the KC’s press releases that discuss voter roll cleaning…

“I never doubted that they correct what is pointed out to them, the problem is what is not pointed out.”

Again…you do not appear to be well informed about what KC is and is not doing.

“As you demonstrate, the DB here is large. There is no way that it will ever be accurate to the degee required to validate every registration in an extremely close statewide election if we just sit and wait for voters to correct their registration mistakes, many of which they may not even be aware of, such as improper use of a business address in place of the mailing address.

Huh? It is not the voter registration system that caused problems in the 2004 election. Almost all of the problems were from disenfranchised felons who voted (1401), ballot handling (252 mostly in Pierce County), 19 people who voted on behalf of a deceased person, and 6 people who voted twice. (Those were the sum total of illegal votes from the election contest).

Most (if not all) of the deceased people had recently died. So, really, the errors that would have been fixed by massive cleaning of the database amounts to a whopping 6 votes. Big fucking deal. The instrument error rate (i.e. the errors resulting from user-confusion by ballot design) is probably many orders of magnitude higher that the double voting error rate. Of course, the felon database will be a big help, as well, but that is not what you seem to be having issues with. (That is, everyone thinks the statewide felon database is a good idea).

“And don’t get me wrong, I’m not making a case for disallowing these voters as the GOP did, right before the election. The issue is that if the DB remains in a state where there are a even a small percentage of obviously improper registrations, then there will always be a problem when it comes time to verify voters in a close election.

No there won’t. The illegal address argument is largely vacuous. Most (if not all) such people have a constitutional right to vote. Fixing their registration versus not fixing their registration in most cases likely makes no practical difference in any election. (Sure, some of these folks my end up actually voting in a local election for which they are not entitled, and not voting in one where they are entitled, but the fraction of these votes are tiny).

“It’s obviously impossible to connect the vote to the registration, and that is precisely the problem. If there is an invalid entry in the registry, that could result in an illegal vote. The registration database is the only real defense of a clean election given secret ballots.”

But there is little evidence that invalid registrations of valid voters significantly increases the number of illegal votes. Your argument is hypothetical and largely unrealized (or at least there has been almost no empirical evidence whatsoever to support the claim, despite millions thrown at the problem in 2004-5).

(My hunch—equally unsupported— is that there is just not a population of people who are itching to vote illegally. People that might be compelled to cheat in that way use their talent to do things like rob banks, hold up convenience stores, and siphon gasoline. By and large, they don’t give a rats ass about using their “talents” to affect elections!)

“A big part of this problem also lies in the methodology of conducting the election. In the real world, when large batch reconciliation processes are conducted against a large DB, the DB is frozen such that no changes can be made. This is the only way it is possible to verify the integrity of the DB before and after a large operation. Yet King County continually processes registrations, even during elections. There is plenty of room for confusion.”

No…the KC database is frozen prior to the election. Where in the hell are you getting this bullshit from?

”If large sweeps checking for obvious problems such as business addresses in the residence address field, etc. were conducted, with letters mailed out to voters to correct the problem or have their registration made inactive, etc. that would go a long way towards eliminating the data mining that Sharkansky is doing that continually paints Logan in a bad light.”

Ummm…but KC, in fact, does things that has the same effect, but produces much higher correction rates. Even so, I agree that they can do lots of things like you suggest. My point is that such an effort cleans up only a very tiny fraction of the total registrations. My guess is that the folk at KC have a strategy that is far more cost effective than amateurs like you, Sharkansky and I can dream up.

”I’m fully aware that some of this is underway now that the state has a consolidated database, and that 4 million records may even seem like a large number even though there are many other public and private databases that make this look quite small . But there should be no surprise that polls consistently show the public does not find the process to have been conducted particularly well up to this point.”

As I suspected…you are confusing the public’s concerns about the election with a (largely nonexistent) concern about the accuracy of the registration system. Well, the GOP won the PR battle in the 2004 election contest. They managed to convince the populace that Washington had a sloppy election, even though the error rates were very low relative to other elections of a similar size that had been equally scrutinized. Congratulations to the GOP for their great propaganda efforts. Unfortunately, they were, effectively lying to the people about the magnitude of the problems.

”What determines whether the system is broken is the perception of its ability to provide an accurate result.”

No…what determines whether a system is broken is whether it produces inaccurate results.

”If I tell you to time a Formula One race with the second hand on your watch, it’s not going to be easy for you to determine the outcome if two cars cross the line at almost the same time.”

Yes…well that is because a stopwatch is the wrong tool for arbitrating between two cars crossing at the same time.

”I’m not saying it is anyone’s fault that the system is what it is, or that the decision was not final given the hand recount and the letter of the law. But the polls indicate that most of the people in the state are not satisfied with the accuracy of the close election, and a critical element of that accuracy is the ability to determine whether a particular ballot should be given to a voter, and then if that ballot should be counted. The registration database is the heart of the matter.”

Hmmm…I’ve never seen a poll where people evaluated “critical elements of accuracy” in the election system. I think you are projecting you own feelings a little there…. But, more importantly, you seem to ignore that the error rate in the 2004 election was very low. The problem was not the error rate (errors will never be eliminated in a system where 3 million ballots are processed in a couple of weeks). The problem is that the results were damn close. Fortunately, we have laws that provide for a non-arbitrary and binding outcome in the event of a close election.

If you don’t like the laws that arbitrate a close election, then work to change the law.

But, if you hope to “fix” the problem by eliminating all errors from elections as a way of increasing the accuracy of extremely close elections, you are on a quixotic quest for the unattainable. You cannot guarantee zero errors in a system that demands secret ballots. Likewise, you cannot guarantee that the next election will not be a tie.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all in favor of minimizing the errors in an election. But, I don’t think putting a huge effort into cleaning up the voter database does much to clean up an election. And, the data support my statement.

“If this statement is true, then the process is broken and needs to be fixed. I’m not saying the voter database can ever be pristine. But to accept that errors are introduced daily is unacceptable. No bank would even that data entry error rate.”

No…this betrays ignorance on your part on how the voter registration system works. The only way you can stop the introduction of new errors in the database is to NOT LET PEOPLE REGISTER.

As much as you Wingnuts might like that, it would be…um…unconstitutional, since voting is a constitutionally endowed right in this state.

Noone is coercing Rufus to become communist. I doubt he has any interest in the ‘community’ of his neighborhood. Obviously, he can’t ‘communicate’ very well. Still, we live in a society dependent upon the cooperation of others. Who built our homes and their furnishings, food and clothes? Who supplies the electricity and water, construct and maintain the sewer, the car, the roads, the gas, etc. Who dies in the Iraq Oil War? Who does Rufus work for? Who are all these people? He doesn’t care, so why should they care about him? This is about all a socialist wants: that citizens have some regard for those whose small presence contributes to the societal whole.

Personally, I believe in private property rights. As such, I won’t accept being labelled communist. However, I believe governments have the responsibility to prevent abuse of private property when the abuse is significantly detrimental to others. If Rufus wants to paint his house pink and green and decorate it with giant plastic butterflies, that’s his business. But when his sewer overflows into the creek, downriver victims may file charges for damages. If Rufus stinks, I expect the big bad guvmint to hose him down.

48You made some good points. But the statement that most of those using business addresses are homeless is wrong. So homeless people are listing real estate offices, and other prominent and quite successful businesses as their addresses? I find that quite hard to believe.

it would also be in violation of the WAC for them to use a realtors office….

It is correct that under New York and Michigan laws, Moore cannot be registered in both places simultaneously, but the laws in those states preclude that from happening. The “active” status of Moore’s New York registration, which TheSmokingGun.com has posted, is inaccurate, according to the laws of both states. Under Michigan law, the registration officer who registered Moore without a party affiliation, when he moved there in 2001, was in charge of notifying the New York secretary of state that Moore was to be removed from the New York voter rolls. Likewise, under New York law, Moore’s registration should have been canceled upon notice from Moore’s Michigan voter registration officer.

Michigan election law provides that:

At the time an elector is applying for registration, the registration officer shall ascertain if the elector is already registered as a voter. If the elector is previously registered, the elector shall at the time of applying for registration sign an authorization to cancel any previous registration. … The clerk of the city or township in which the elector is newly registered shall notify the registration officer of the place of previous registration of the authorization to cancel. An authorization to cancel which indicates a previous address in a state other than this state shall be forwarded to the secretary of state of that state.

New York law requires that:

A voter’s registration … shall be cancelled if, since the time of his last registration he:

(a) Moved his residence outside the city or county in which he is registered[;]

(h) For any other reason is no longer qualified to vote as provided in this chapter[;]

or upon: [2](d) A notice from a board of elections or other voter registration officer or agency that such person has registered to vote from an address outside such city or county.

“No…this betrays ignorance on your part on how the voter registration system works. The only way you can stop the introduction of new errors in the database is to NOT LET PEOPLE REGISTER.”

People register by filling out a form. The KRCE staff enters enters the information into the database. If that’s not the case then the system is really broken.

Are you saying that if a registration is questionable, i.e. missing data, P.O. Box for the address, the KRCE staff has no discretion to set aside that registration to investigate its validity before entering it into the system?

To eliminate obvious errors the data entry software could be modified to flag suspicious registrations and set them aside for further investagation. This investigation might be nothing more than, “this person is legit, they just have the same name as a felon”, click a button and done. If the voter is suspcious the county can contact them and get further information. This type of process is a common practice in the business world to ensure that only clean data gets into the production system. It could also provide and audit trail to find out how illegal voters are getting into the system, i.e. human error, bad processes, fraud, etc.

“As much as you Wingnuts might like that, it would be…um…unconstitutional, since voting is a constitutionally endowed right in this state.”

Voting is a constitutional right, but only for voters who are legally entitled to vote. The state, and counties, have the obligation to properly regulate voter registrations. Just becuase a person call fill in the correct blanks on a voter registration card doesn’t mean they are legally entitled to vote.

I’m not sure why are you so against some basic steps to ensure that only voters who are legally entitled to vote get to vote, and those not entitled to vote don’t get to vote.

re #7: Much Ado: If you think both the right and the left are wrong wouldn’t being in the middle simply compound the errors? What makes you think you are so astute thet you can choose what is correct from either side and come up with the perfect “middle way”?

Centrists are perceived ( often correctly ) to stand for nothing because they try to stand for everything. I got news for you , buddy: To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen: ” You’re no Confucius. ”

Go ahead with your centrist thing if you must, but you have to realize it’s only 12% of the electorate that agrees with your approach. We on the right and the left will be throwing tomatoes at you from both sides. If you like being a misunderstood victim, this is the place for you.

”People register by filling out a form. The KRCE staff enters enters the information into the database. If that’s not the case then the system is really broken.”

We can agree on that.

”Are you saying that if a registration is questionable, i.e. missing data, P.O. Box for the address, the KRCE staff has no discretion to set aside that registration to investigate its validity before entering it into the system?”

Yes…in fact, this is done now.

”To eliminate obvious errors the data entry software could be modified to flag suspicious registrations and set them aside for further investagation. This investigation might be nothing more than, “this person is legit, they just have the same name as a felon”, click a button and done. If the voter is suspcious the county can contact them and get further information. “

Yes…all perfectly reasonable and, of course, many such checks are implemented now. I haven’t used the software, but I’d bet that most “missing data” (i.e. no birth date, missing address) errors are immediately flagged. Furthermore, I’d bet birthdate ranges are checked, zip codes checks are made, etc. The “felon matching” is exactly the kind of thing the statewide disenfranchised felon database is for–this is an excellent new tool

”This type of process is a common practice in the business world to ensure that only clean data gets into the production system. It could also provide and audit trail to find out how illegal voters are getting into the system, i.e. human error, bad processes, fraud, etc.”

Indeed…though business datasets on the order of millions of people always contain a small fraction of errors just like voter registration databases…. People move, change their name, die, all the time. Hell…I still get business mail addressed to the previous owner of my house—and he died in 2000!

”Voting is a constitutional right, but only for voters who are legally entitled to vote.”

Yep…no arguments from me there.

”The state, and counties, have the obligation to properly regulate voter registrations. Just becuase a person call fill in the correct blanks on a voter registration card doesn’t mean they are legally entitled to vote.”

Sure…but the entitlement to vote is not conditional on registration. Rather, registration is an administrative instrument developed to assists both the government and the voter exercising the voter’s right to vote. Let’s not get so obsessive about the administrative tool that we forget it is only an aid to enable people to exercise their right.

I’ve said this before in these threads: an election is corrupted to an identical extent when one eligible voter is prevented from voting as when one ineligible voter is allowed to vote. Numerically these bias the election in the same way—this disenfranchises all of us just a little bit. But, in the former case, an individual has had his/her voting right snatched away; in the later case, someone has committed a crime and should be prosecuted for it. When it comes to methods to eliminate those last 0.0001% that are illegal votes, it still must be done in a way that does not prevent an even greater number of legal voters from voting.

”I’m not sure why are you so against some basic steps to ensure that only voters who are legally entitled to vote get to vote, and those not entitled to vote don’t get to vote.”

Your confusion arises because I’m am in favor of taking basic steps to clean existing databases or doing better error checking on initially entered data into a voter registration database. I was not arguing against taking reasonable steps to do so. I believe your confusion arises for several reasons:

I have expressed skepticism about the efficacy of a massive cleaning effort to actually change any election outcome. In particular, aside from the statewide disenfranchised felon database which should be very effective and relatively simple to implement, it seems there were very few problems identified in 2004 that would have been fixed by a large cleaning effort. It might have eliminated the 6 duplicate votes uncovered (plus a few more). In other words, I think you are (1) overstating the extent of the problem of how errors in the voter rolls translate into illegal votes and (2) you are expecting much more from cleaning the database than could ever be delivered.

My skepticism, however, is about your grasp of the problem and some of the wacky solutions that have been proposed to fix the problem—solutions that cause far greater disenfranchisement by preventing legal voters from voting.

But, that skepticism is not about whether or not we should be cleaning up the database. Cleaning a voter registrations database is important and should continue to be done, and should be improved. I am quite pleased to see computer technology being used to improve the quality of the voter rolls—the statewide voter rolls database and the felon database are terrific tools that should have the long term benefit of squeezing another decimal point out of the error rate of registrations.

But, will doing so affect the election totals? The evidence suggests only the tiniest effect on the totals, and an exceedingly low probability that any outcomes will actually be affected.

“I’d heard rumblings yesterday that DCCC Rahm Emmanuel, who has allowed Tim Russert to devour him on national television any number of times, had asked Hackett to drop the Senate race and run again for Jean Schmidt’s House seat — the one he came within voting chicanery in Schmidt’s home county of winning last fall. And this morning comes the news that Hackett, understandably, has told the Democratic Party to go fuck itself — it can deliberately lose races without him. And calling Hackett’s donors asking them not to donate anymore is about as low as you can get.

For all that I’m so angry I can hardly see straight, I respect Hackett’s decision to draw a big red line under the hapless Democratic Party and not play their game. But it’s clear that the party hacks only want soft-spoken, malleable candidates like Barack Obama, who will keep their mouths shut once elected and only speak when spoken to until it’s their turn. This is politics as Olympic ice dancing, where you have to wait your turn. It’s this tendency in the Democratic Party to keep to the hierarchy that gave us a certain loser in Walter Mondale in 1994 instead of the upstart Gary Hart. It’s this tendency that gave us the phlegmatic John Kerry last year instead of the electrifying Howard Dean. The Democratic party refuses to speak up for the people from whom it demands support, and when a candidate comes along who WILL speak up, the Powers that Be in the party do everything possible to stop them.

It’s with a heavy heart that I remove Hackett’s name from my ActBlue page. The only reason I’m not removing the entire thing is that ActBlue collects donations for specific candidates. And if you still feel you want to donate, please do your donating this way. Do NOT give a nickel of your money to the national party — to the DCCC or DSCC, unless you want a Democratic Party that continues to sell YOU and YOUR RIGHTS and YOUR CHILDREN’S FUTURE down the river because they still think they have to be Republicans to win.

How’s that strategy been working for you anyway, Rahm?

Across the blogosphere, the reaction is what one would expect.” Now here is the killer statement. Markos – you all know as Daily Kos, has drinken the kool-aid. I ‘m not saying it, another lefty is. Remember Daily Kos, the web site Goldy, NotAClueUpHisAss, Tree Fog Farmer, etc. hve their heads up so far up Kos’s ass they all see Kos’ duodenal canal.

Markos, having tasted the nectar of hacktocracy, is rewriting history by saying that Hackett only ran after Sherrod Brown announced his candidacy, thus proving that he has been corrupted by the same forces that have rendered the Democrats irrelevant.

But Brilliant, we knew Markos was corrupted as soon as he created his blog!

re 110: marks: Does “centrist thinking” include voting for things like Judge Alito, the new, punitive debtor laws, PORK in general, no universal health care? Who you kiddin’? Not me.

You are a nut. I love PORK in general. Thank God no Sociali$t health care. The Judge was proposed by the current duly elected President who was vetted by the Senate under the advice and consent clause and was determined to be fit by virtue of the fact that he has been doing this stuff for 15 fucking years without any impeachable offence. As for the new bankruptcy provisions, remember this:

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