Yes yes, free will and all that.... I know, heard it before. However, if Blizzard had toned down/capped Tabard Rep, but still left it as an option it would have been a far better system.

Anytime they essentially bottleneck us into one route, it's a horrible design flaw. Dailies aren't "mandatory" but they're the only way to earn rep with the MOP factions if you want their mounts/recipes etc. Don't care about vanity items? Well you still need to do dailies, because while you can farm valor in group content, you can't spend it on anything without rep, which requires dailies.

Bit of a rant here, but I'm sure people get my point. They went from one flawed system (everything behind Tabard rep) to another flawed system (everything behind dailies).

Yes yes, free will and all that.... I know, heard it before. However, if Blizzard had toned down/capped Tabard Rep, but still left it as an option it would have been a far better system.

Anytime they essentially bottleneck us into one route, it's a horrible design flaw. Dailies aren't "mandatory" but they're the only way to earn rep with the MOP factions if you want their mounts/recipes etc. Don't care about vanity items? Well you still need to do dailies, because while you can farm valor in group content, you can't spend it on anything without rep, which requires dailies.

Bit of a rant here, but I'm sure people get my point. They went from one flawed system (everything behind Tabard rep) to another flawed system (everything behind dailies).

Tabards were not flawed in the least. The answer wasn't to remove tabards because the philosophy behind tabards is great. It doesn't matter what dungeon you do your getting rep. All they needed to do was expand that philosophy to everything else outside of dungeons. Put a tabard on and quest get rep. Put a tabard on and fish get rep. Put a tabard on and pvp get rep. You name it you get rep for doing it. Crafting get rep.

Tabards were not flawed in the least. The answer wasn't to remove tabards because the philosophy behind tabards is great. It doesn't matter what dungeon you do your getting rep. All they needed to do was expand that philosophy to everything else outside of dungeons. Put a tabard on and quest get rep. Put a tabard on and fish get rep. Put a tabard on and pvp get rep. You name it you get rep for doing it. Crafting get rep.

The flaw with tabards was that they didn't make sense. Why should the Klaxxi like me because I cleaned out the Brewery?

Tabards were not flawed in the least. The answer wasn't to remove tabards because the philosophy behind tabards is great. It doesn't matter what dungeon you do your getting rep. All they needed to do was expand that philosophy to everything else outside of dungeons. Put a tabard on and quest get rep. Put a tabard on and fish get rep. Put a tabard on and pvp get rep. You name it you get rep for doing it. Crafting get rep.

But then Rep becomes meaningless. If we could rep for *everything* then why have it? It's merely an artificial gating which serves no purpose other than to be a gate.

The reason I said the Tabard system was flawed, is I agree with the Dev's is was too much a "one stop shop". Throw on a tabard, chain 5 man's while getting Gear, Valor, Justice, Rep and the Rep rewards. It wasn't that I disliked being able to gear up so efficiently, it was the fact that the rep was pointless. Every 5 dungeons or so I'd merely just check my character sheet and "Oh, I'm exalted, better switch tabards".

TBC's rep system (from a lore stanbpoint) made more sense. You gained rep in the dungeons relevant to that faction, but that wouldn't work with the"Random Dungeon finder" system. Or atleast, wouldn't work as well.

A combination of dailies, dungeon rep, work order (tillers) and even farmable drops, giving people mutiple paths to go down is the best solution in my opinion.

I don't mind dailies in particular, however the sheer amount that MoP brought and the fact that nearly all factions require dailies is somewhat over the top for me.
I'd rather have more diversity in the different ways one could gain reputation for different factions. A few factions with just dailies would be fine with me, the next few through dungeons and some others through PvE challenges (maybe kill difficult mobs Lok'delar + Rok'delar style?)

Anyhow, I think Blizzard would do well by adding more diversity in reputation farms. But also in play-styles and other area's of the game!

The flaw with tabards was that they didn't make sense. Why should the Klaxxi like me because I cleaned out the Brewery?

Why should klaxxxi care the 4th or 5th time you've done the same fucking quest for them? Seriously think about this for a moment. Hey Klaxxi guy I collected 10 jugs of bug juice, you know I can get more right? Naw that's okay Player guy come back tmmrw though I'm sure we'll ask you to do the same fucking thing again or maybe the day after do the same thing again. You could do more now? Naw we'll just wait two or three days under the brutal conditions we live in.

You've got to be kidding me with this. the Klaxxi care cause your championing their cause by wearing their jersey. Michael Jordan doesn't give a shit about chicago but he wears a bulls jersey and thus represents the team and the city.

---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 03:14 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Dakara

But then Rep becomes meaningless. If we could rep for *everything* then why have it? It's merely an artificial gating which serves no purpose other than to be a gate.

The reason I said the Tabard system was flawed, is I agree with the Dev's is was too much a "one stop shop". Throw on a tabard, chain 5 man's while getting Gear, Valor, Justice, Rep and the Rep rewards. It wasn't that I disliked being able to gear up so efficiently, it was the fact that the rep was pointless. Every 5 dungeons or so I'd merely just check my character sheet and "Oh, I'm exalted, better switch tabards".

TBC's rep system (from a lore stanbpoint) made more sense. You gained rep in the dungeons relevant to that faction, but that wouldn't work with the"Random Dungeon finder" system. Or atleast, wouldn't work as well.

A combination of dailies, dungeon rep, work order (tillers) and even farmable drops, giving people mutiple paths to go down is the best solution in my opinion.

LOL you must be jokeing to. What do you think rep and dailies are now? ARTIFICIAL GATES. That's it. They serve no other purpose except to gate, that's what rep does. I'm okay with making rep pointless. Frankly it's an old model, and it makes the game feel REAL dated. The best solution is the solution that gives you the freedom to what you like and get rewarded for it REGARDLESS of some outdated and outmoded ideas of rep. The best solution is the tabard that gives you rep for everything you do.

Why should klaxxxi care the 4th or 5th time you've done the same fucking quest for them? Seriously think about this for a moment. Hey Klaxxi guy I collected 10 jugs of bug juice, you know I can get more right? Naw that's okay Player guy come back tmmrw though I'm sure we'll ask you to do the same fucking thing again or maybe the day after do the same thing again. You could do more now? Naw we'll just wait two or three days under the brutal conditions we live in.

You've got to be kidding me with this. the Klaxxi care cause your championing their cause by wearing their jersey. Michael Jordan doesn't give a shit about chicago but he wears a bulls jersey and thus represents the team and the city.

---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 03:14 AM ----------

LOL you must be jokeing to. What do you think rep and dailies are now? ARTIFICIAL GATES. That's it. They serve no other purpose except to gate, that's what rep does. I'm okay with making rep pointless. Frankly it's an old model, and it makes the game feel REAL dated. The best solution is the solution that gives you the freedom to what you like and get rewarded for it REGARDLESS of some outdated and outmoded ideas of rep. The best solution is the tabard that gives you rep for everything you do.

I think I see where you're coming from.

You want the rewards associated with Reputation Factions without actually having to do *anything* for it. The current system (as much as I hate it) is more than a gate. You need need to alter your game time accordingly if you wish to reap the rewards from each faction. You cant simply log in a que for randoms all day while wearing a magic piece of cloth that makes people like you. The problem, is that the rewards (namely Valor gear) is virtually mandatory for character progression that the dailies themselves become mandatory. The fact is, virtually every Rep model Blizzard has come up with (apart from Raid rep) has been flawed. No one says that collecting bug juice everyday is a good system, but neither was the tabards.

If the rep system is as outdated and horrible as you say it is, then there might aswell be no factions. With no factions, there's no associated rewards. You may see that as a good thing, many don't. We enjoy "solo farming" for mounts and the like, and in all honesty, I would of had zero issue with the MOP dailies model to get my mounts, had they of not included the Valor rewards behind the rep.

The only daily's I hated in mop was the first golden lotus daily's since was always the same + the mobs was freaking slow to kill, as a new dinged rogue :/ and it took to long to be exalted. Loved 5.1 daily's, many variations, fast to complete, pretty fast to get exalted and the story quests in between was awesome, and after revered with 100% rep + darkmoon 10% you got a story quest everyday <3

You want the rewards associated with Reputation Factions without actually having to do *anything* for it. The current system (as much as I hate it) is more than a gate. You need need to alter your game time accordingly if you wish to reap the rewards from each faction. You cant simply log in a que for randoms all day while wearing a magic piece of cloth that makes people like you. The problem, is that the rewards (namely Valor gear) is virtually mandatory for character progression that the dailies themselves become mandatory. The fact is, virtually every Rep model Blizzard has come up with (apart from Raid rep) has been flawed. No one says that collecting bug juice everyday is a good system, but neither was the tabards.

If the rep system is as outdated and horrible as you say it is, then there might aswell be no factions. With no factions, there's no associated rewards. You may see that as a good thing, many don't. We enjoy "solo farming" for mounts and the like, and in all honesty, I would of had zero issue with the MOP dailies model to get my mounts, had they of not included the Valor rewards behind the rep.

No. I mean you can characterize it like that but alright I don't particularly care how you want to sum it up. What I want is to never NEVER have to go out of my way to do something I don't like to do because the reward is to compelling (by design) to ignore. I want the rewards that are purposely PURPOSELY put behind that content to be available to me without having to do that specific content. I want the FREEDOM TO CHOSE to do the content I want to do without loosing out on the reward because my time is limited and my interest in daily questing even more limited. Real choice. Not the choice offered to me in mists which is really just do it or don't and suck it up.

I think theirs degrees to this though and the fact that valor was put behind dailies was a REAL REAL bad thing. I would have rather that they had the balls and simple removed valor entirely. Right now (coupled with the slow slow slow rate of valor acquisition) it's a massive gate, you can deny it but it is. My game time is limited and what's even more limited is my patience for doing these dailies and capping valor each week. Tabards were a better system. They worked on MY SCHEDULE not on the dictate of the daily quest vendor.

Yea, Valor gear gated by rep only earned from dailies was a horrible idea. But wanting access to everything the rep vendors provide, without having to specifically work towards it is not what MMO's are about, and is the EXACT reason, why the dev's scrapped the Tabards.

Dailies have their place, and farming faction rep for vanity items is a good place. All they needed to do was put the Valor gear on normal vendors and all would be well.

ive never liked dailies, even if their rewards and reputation doesnt offer anything groundbreaking it still gives this illusion that i should still do them in order to give my character the best chance at any kind of progression, be it through monetary gains or gear rewards. ive never logged on any mmo that had dailies and got excited about spending 30 mins to an hour doing the same thing i did the day before.

the only quest in WoW that i would have ever really enjoyed being a daily was the fiery ball of death in Cata where you killed a bunch of gnomes, but even that quest i think would have gotten old and boring after the 15th time. just my .02

Yea, Valor gear gated by rep only earned from dailies was a horrible idea. But wanting access to everything the rep vendors provide, without having to specifically work towards it is not what MMO's are about, and is the EXACT reason, why the dev's scrapped the Tabards.

Dailies have their place, and farming faction rep for vanity items is a good place. All they needed to do was put the Valor gear on normal vendors and all would be well.

See but your not not working towards it. Your just doing what you like to work towards it. That's the distinction. You can like what your doing and get rewards at the same time. That's the beauty of the tabard. Your not not working for it. You are working for it just working at something you enjoy doing.

See but your not not working towards it. Your just doing what you like to work towards it. That's the distinction. You can like what your doing and get rewards at the same time. That's the beauty of the tabard. Your not not working for it. You are working for it just working at something you enjoy doing.

Speak for yourself.
I hate 5-mans. They are work, whereas dailies are relaxing.
I like dailies.
As usual, your posts assume that everyone has the same attitude and opinion as you.

Speak for yourself.
I hate 5-mans. They are work, whereas dailies are relaxing.
I like dailies.
As usual, your posts assume that everyone has the same attitude and opinion as you.

Not really. If you bothered to actually read the rest of the conversation you'd know what the fuck your talking about.
As usual you jump in and pick something apart without actually knowing what the fuck you are talking about. I'm all for your shitty dailies having rep. That's why I want tabards for EVERYTHING. That award rep for EVERY ACTIVITY. You can do your shitty dailies all you like, even in 5.2 where the developers are abandoning it.

I don't hate them, but I've also been super-casual so far this expansion, due in part to acquiring a backlog of other games to play over the holidays.

I haven't been logging in every day to do them. I've got Dominance Offensive, Tillers, and Order of the Cloud Serpents at Exalted. Golden Lotus and Klaxxi are at Revered, the others are in Friendly / Honored territory. When I want to jump into the game for a bit, I can pick a group of dailies and go do them, and they'll eventually get maxed out before the expansion is done. If I get tired of one set, I'll work on another, or just take a break from them.

I'm not a raider so I don't feel any need to gear up or farm valor or conquest. I just play what I feel like playing on any given day.

Honestly feel kind of bad for people who feel like they're obligated to do all of the content every time they log in. To me it's so much more fun to just log in and be like, "Hmm, what'll I do today? Hunt rares? Pet battles? Dailies? Some dungeons or scenarios? Maybe I'll go clear Sunwell and try to get some of that cool gear..."

lol i got that back in cata, no I'm a bit of a junky for dallies. i don't mind them, i might even...enjoy them. gasps. they take up time for when I'm not raiding or in a que, and they give me the gold and VP/JP i want.

I like them, I've been doing them a s good way to kill time since wrath. I still don't have all the argent tournament rewards ojn my main, but I still need to max out the rep for cloud serprents (my last one).

Then i'll probably go and finish the BC reps I've yet to max out, which should keep me going between queues until 5.2 gives me new dailies to smash.

You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all! -Warrior Wisdom