Good! It's about time we started standing up to the TYRANNY of these government thugs. The next time you have to deal with one of these Statist Pigs, I want you to remain calm, cool, and colllected, but be ready to exercise your right to protect yourself as laid forth by the Founding Fathers to prevent this type of tyranny at the hands of "lawmen".

Or, you could just take it right to the BROWNSHIRTS and don't wait for them to come for you. The Tyrants never expected this. I bet 0bamma was quaking in his loafers when he heard about this True Patriot.

dr-shotgun:Bomb Head Mohammed: oh look, a gun nut that doesn't understand the statistical nature of gun violence. hurry up kids and watch or we'll have to wait until the 12:05 parade for the next one.

"This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety ... While we recognize that assault-weapon legislation will not stop all assault-weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals." - Ronald Reagan

Anyone calling for a ban on assault weapons doesn't understand the statistical nature of gun violence, given how astoundingly rare their use in crime actually is.

Most art history majors never took a college-level course in stats, so they wouldn't know how it works.

I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that police and law enforcement should be considered civilians and subject to the same weapons restrictions as the rest of us. That is, if the general public is prohibited from owning "assault weapons" then the police ought to as well, and if we're only able to buy fully automatic weapons that were registered before 1986 then so should they.

Because the police aren't a domestic army, they're a civilian (non-military) organization for law enforcement.

Apik0r0s:My dick is above average, so I have no dog in this fight, ban them all. I could care less. The only people I know who rant about guns are right wing whackjobs who would be precluded from owning a firearm in any sensible society, based on the deep and far ranging disorders they suffer from.

Has anyone ever wondered who all the gun owners and anti-firearms people who hook up man-on-man style are? I know it seems like an odd couple kind of thing, but there are a lot of anti-firearms guys who have apparently sucked a lot of gun owner dick. They're always talking about it...the size, their feelings about it, etc. Always when people are talking about firearms, these guys come in and start talking about other guys' junk, and to listen to them, they've obviously had a pretty large sample size.

Obviously, I'm not painting either gun-owners or anti-firearms people as closeted homosexuals...that would be silly...but these guys who really have nothing to add to a discussion about weapons other than talking about all the gun-owner dick they've experienced...they're pretty weird.

Vegan Meat Popsicle:Two gun threads in a row now where the gun nut I was talking to just gave up and bugged out with his tail between his legs.

Huh.... one more and I think I have a trend.

I mean he was being completely sarcastic and patronizing the entire time. I believe he called himself a robot at one point. Pretty sure the answer is he's just trolling you given how pro-gun he has been in other threads.

OgreMagi:Kit Fister: Eirik: craig328: Civil insurrections? Again, these happen in public so the first people to respond would be other citizens. Indeed, as we saw in New Orleans, Los Angeles and that I personally witnessed in St. Petersburg, FL several years back, police can often be stretched too thin to respond.

There were a number of businesses that survived the LA Riots because the owners set up shop on top with rifles and a willingness to use them. The looters moved on to other businesses.

And a number of neighborhoods spared looting and attack because there were armed people living there willing to shoot back.

Safety and security, and social peace are an illusion, broken when the collective will to accept the social order is diminished beyond the point of reason.

The police tried to disarm those shop owners. Their response was basically "fark off". Funny how the LAPD didn't have the manpower to deal with looting, but could spare an officer to harass honest people protecting their property.

Those police officers recognized the importance of a safe work environment. For criminals.

Wayne 985:You mean like the civilian murder rate is only referencing reported instances, and not "general" murder by civilians?

Police are civilians. And no, like the fact that police aren't on-duty to commit excessive force violations all day every day. They only get those while at work, and so the excessive force firearms death rate only accounts for a fraction of illegal deaths committed by police officers.

PsiChick:No, a civilian in the typical sense of the word is not simply nonmilitary, it also applies to those who are not attached to paramilitary organizations. In common usage, words occasionally have more than their dictionary definition. And I DO NOT BELIEVE THE POLICE NEED ASSAULT WEAPONS, AS I HAVE REPEATEDLY STATED.

Yes, in the typical sense of the word, civilian = nonmilitary. CIVILIAN IS THE WORD FOR NONMILITARY.

Whoops I think I had the same capslock problem you had. Anyway, the definition of civilian is "nonmilitary." Anyone who is not in the military is a civilian. Rules and regulations regarding civilians cover everyone who's not in the military. International courts, when referring to nonmilitary targets call them "civilian." Suggesting that police are not civilians is so incredibly wrong there's really no way to respond to you other than to tell you you're wrong wrong wrong wrongity wrong, wrongy wrong-wrong wrongity wrong.

dittybopper:chairborne: It also kind of deconstructs all that idiotic talk about the 2nd amendment being outdated because of drones and tanks. First off, the military isn't full of robots with no free will. Second a drone or a tank is useless when the person behind it is removed from the equation. Third, veterans and other capable citizens *vastly* outnumber every cop, soldier and fed combined. That's always been kind of the point, any government bad enough to warrant the citizenry engaging in armed resistance is going to be farked.

There is something else that is rarely talked about: A significant portion of the military would join an insurgency, if the motivation was confiscation of guns.

That's because a very significant fraction of the military, especially combat arms specialties, come from people raised in the "Gun Culture". Why? Because they get to play with guns while getting paid to do so.

My brother went 0300 as a Marine, and became a marksmanship instructor, precisely because of that.

There was a survey done about 19 years ago where a group of Marines were asked about whether they would fire upon civilians who didn't turn in non-sporting firearms. The responses were predictable, to anyone familiar with the military and the gun culture.

I faintly remember that. Didn't a significant number of the Marines say they would shoot the officer giving the order?

justtray:Now THIS is ironic coming from someone who has to rely on a 4 year old conservative activist, hypocritical, willfully ignorant, soon to be repealed supreme court decision to have any argument whatsoever.

I love fiction, are you a novelist? I doubt I'll read anything more disconnected from reality today than this right here.

I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that police and law enforcement should be considered civilians and subject to the same weapons restrictions as the rest of us. That is, if the general public is prohibited from owning "assault weapons" then the police ought to as well, and if we're only able to buy fully automatic weapons that were registered before 1986 then so should they.

Because the police aren't a domestic army, they're a civilian (non-military) organization for law enforcement.

Hahahha. Way to put a nice spin on it, doctor. You should go work for Fox News! The police are unfortunately not civilians, no matter what way you put it. I don't know why it's so hard for you Gun Nut Americans to accept the fact that owning guns is no more a "right" than owning a driver's license. Despite what your silly constitution says.

justtray:Im sure youve heard this before, but thats how society works. The few ruin it for the rest. If you dont like what that leads to, Somalia doesnt have such restrictions. See if you like it there.

If you're going to go that route, since you love gun control so much, why don't you move to North Korea?

And don't forget, all assault rifles are a mere fraction of overall firearms in the population, yet are used in less than 2% of all firearm crimes. To say nothing of the fact that it isn't as if those murders would disappear; as I said in another thread, it isn't like someone intent on committing a crime is gonna say "I can't have the big evil looking gun I want, so instead of killing this guy, I'm gonna go play xBox."

Oh, and another fun thing to not forget - even though assault rifle sales have been staggeringly massive over the last 5 years (to the tune of about a million ARs and AKs being sold a year), murders with rifles have declined at an even faster rate (a 14% decline in all firearm murders since 2007, while rifle murders have declined 28%).

BgJonson79:Wouldn't that be trespassing? Cops aren't above the law, and it's dangerous to think they are.

It's called commandeering. If the cops NEED to have a facility to train their personnel, and your gun range is the only facility in the area, guess what? Your gun range is now a police training facility.

thurstonxhowell:david_gaithersburg: Representative of the unwashed masses: The NRA won't be happy until you are allowed to have a nuclear warhead in your house. Because mutally assurred destruction is the only way to keep peace.

People often quote "gun crime" statistics. But why focus on "gun violence" when what really matters is total violence? Maybe because one can use carefully chosen statistics to mislead? The reason "gun violence" is higher in America is there are more guns. Personally, if someone I love is made a victim of violent crime with any deadly threat, the exact type of threat matters little to me.

From here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-v io lent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html"...there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe. Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland. By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population. France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 - a 67 per cent increase in the past decade - at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population."

ALL GUNS are deadly. Banning guns that "look scary" is supposed to accomplish what, exactly?

Why focus on total violence when homicide is what really matters?

Uk has 4x the violent crime rate we do per capita. We have 4x the homicide rate they do.

Argument defeated.

How about asking yourself this: "why don't we have 4x as many violent crimes as the UK does?"

OR

"What condition exists in the UK that makes criminals more likely to commit a violent crime against another person than here in the United States?"

Believe it or not, a thug wants to continue being a thug even after he commits his crimes ...

Poor deflection.

Crime rate is statistically correlated to population density. 20 million people live n London. Thats why their crime rate is so high. The reason their homicide rate is so low, despite having 4x the violent crime rate is because they dont have simple weapons of homicide, aka guns. At least, that is a very logial and statistically supported representation to be taken from these facts.

ronaprhys:I don't think there'd be an issue with transporting your firearm from home to the shoot. I believe a Federal law already exists that allows one to transport a firearm, even if it's banned in that locality, without fear of reprisal or seizure.

I could easily be wrong, but haven't people been arrested and prosecuted in D.C. for exactly this, transporting guns or magazines that violate the city laws though the city limits? Didn't someone in New Jersey go to prison for something akin to this (though, IIRC, his case had some odd complications).

Keeve:I think your first assumption is correct. The gun club is mad at the city council so they're taking it out on the cops. Very misdirected and probably not a smart move.

The gun club doesn't have many options here to protest where the city will feel it. Assuming that they are the only place where the police can practice that's reasonably close by or affordable, they have a legal way to protest that will effect the city bottom line. Now, they either have to find a different facility that may be further away or more expensive or build their own somewhere. The city can choose either to have their ordinance or pay more money out.

This is either a wrongheaded attempt at retribution against "the man", or an attempt to keep police away so they can continue using banned weapons without getting busted. In the former case, Police are enforcers of the law, not legislators. In the latter, simply banning them will not prevent them from enforcing the law.

The phrase "sworn duty" has meaning. If the law is wrong hold the legislators responsible, not the police.

They aren't trying to get away with something, they are making a point. One that seems to be lost on you...

Because they are civillians themselves and in no sense need to outgun the public to perform their duties.

I said without semantic argument. Police are law enforcement. Civilians are NOT.

Who's getting all semantic now? You just destroyed your own argument.

By the way, you're leaving off the highly inconvenient (for you) prefatory "civilian" - i.e, civilian law enforcement. As in not military. Which is why the military branches have their own internal law enforcement system that applies to them, separate from the civilian law enforcement system, and why the military is barred from civilian law enforcement activity by way of posse comitatus.

Tell me again, does your local sheriff get orders from NORCOM by way of the Pentagon and the Dept. of Defense?

Does your local constabulary receive combat pay and military retiree benefits?

Are local riot cops where you live bound by General Orders, ROE, and reprimanded every time they employ CS, CN or pepper spray chemical weapons on civilians and non-combatants in a manner inconsistent with the Geneva Convention?

Dimensio:Big_Fat_Liar: odinsposse: Antimatter: Fubini: This makes sense to me, at least a little.

I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that police and law enforcement should be considered civilians and subject to the same weapons restrictions as the rest of us. That is, if the general public is prohibited from owning "assault weapons" then the police ought to as well, and if we're only able to buy fully automatic weapons that were registered before 1986 then so should they.

Because the police aren't a domestic army, they're a civilian (non-military) organization for law enforcement.

They are government employees, same as the military, honestly.

Does that mean the clerk at the DMV can buy an automatic rifle?

Yes, I think it does. Also, the people driving the plow trucks for the county. They get fun guns too. And anybody on public aid...

I am an employee of a university whose funding is only partially provided by the state. My salary is public information, however. Am I entitled to fully automatic firearms?

That's a tough one. I think everyone can agree you are at least eligible for three round burst. We'll have to set up a committee to determine if we can go any further than that.

odinsposse:Antimatter: Fubini: This makes sense to me, at least a little.

I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that police and law enforcement should be considered civilians and subject to the same weapons restrictions as the rest of us. That is, if the general public is prohibited from owning "assault weapons" then the police ought to as well, and if we're only able to buy fully automatic weapons that were registered before 1986 then so should they.

Because the police aren't a domestic army, they're a civilian (non-military) organization for law enforcement.

They are government employees, same as the military, honestly.

Does that mean the clerk at the DMV can buy an automatic rifle?

Yes, I think it does. Also, the people driving the plow trucks for the county. They get fun guns too. And anybody on public aid...

This is either a wrongheaded attempt at retribution against "the man", or an attempt to keep police away so they can continue using banned weapons without getting busted. In the former case, Police are enforcers of the law, not legislators. In the latter, simply banning them will not prevent them from enforcing the law.

The phrase "sworn duty" has meaning. If the law is wrong hold the legislators responsible, not the police.

the city doesn't have its own range, so they had been using the club range for their (required) training/qualifying....the City said they wanted to ban "assault" weapons and magazines, so the club said "don't expect us to allow you to use our facilities then"..

I'm one of those crazy people who thinks that police and law enforcement should be considered civilians and subject to the same weapons restrictions as the rest of us. That is, if the general public is prohibited from owning "assault weapons" then the police ought to as well, and if we're only able to buy fully automatic weapons that were registered before 1986 then so should they.

Because the police aren't a domestic army, they're a civilian (non-military) organization for law enforcement.