Really- how would you know Verizon will be changing their policy or Sprint with their Blackberries?

I say “becoming more common” and you somehow infer Blackberries on Sprint. Way to be a comprehensive reader! The Pre on Sprint requires a data plan. The Storm on Verizon requires a data plan. Each new phone that has been designated an “iPhone-killer” by the media has typically been required to have a data plan. This is becoming a more common event in this category and I don’t expect it to change anytime soon.

Why are such a nasty person to everyone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NasserAE

If you pay the no commitment price ($500 for the 3G) you can.

I would love to have bought mine outright, but I do use data (10GB to 40GB a month since I tether). and there would be no cost benefit to paying for it outright from AT&T, Apple or eBay. If they offer legal tethering I will pay for it since it is a service beyond what I agreed to pay for with my contract, but since they don’t I will continue to tethering my iPhone until they offer it.

They are charging me $40 a month for "DATA", the same as I pay for my comcast cable modem. The cable modem runs circles around the marginal 3G service I get from AT&T.

18 million times $40 is....well, a lot. It's not like it was a surprise that iPhones can use the data network. AT&T was just banking on the fact that nobody would want to (based on old shitty smartphone designs). That's their own mistake.

"Fix your network with the HUGE F'ing pile of cash you have from the iPhone subscriber base!", is the only advise I have.

Sheldon

I don't know of any wireless service that can outperform cable.

It was a surprise. Nobody and that includes a lot of guys here that never in their wildest imaginations ever thought that the iPhone would be so successful. In particular, Apple and every service provider, especially those that turned Apple down in the first place.

AT&T has spent billions of dollars installing and upgrading its infrastructure. Keep in mind all those European countries that were originally owned by the government and/or were built and many still are with tax payers monies.

What a load of crap. iPhone users use a lot more bandwidth, because they have a product that is actually *usable*! Previous phones had crappy browsers that you wouldn't use if someone paid you. What a surprise that when a useful, easy to use, product comes out, people take advantage of it! Wow, poor AT&T, it sucks to sell a good product, I know, people might use it.

Btw, this, of course, has nothing to do with hummers. If your neighbour has a hummer, you should blow it up. If they have an iPhone, you should compliment them.

AT&T has enough blame, but what about Apple? It takes years to expand a Wireless Network. Given that.......

1. What forecast did Apple give AT&T as far as projected US sales of iPhones and estimated average bandwidth per user? I bet it was far lower than anyone had ever expected. Without accurate projections, how could any wireless carrier build out a capable network ahead of the demand? Remember, too, that when the iPhone first came out, the APP Store was not even on anyone's radar. Apple kept adding features without first checking for network capacity.

2. Why did Apple choose just one US Wireless Carrier? Remember, this was Apple's decision, not AT&T's. We all know the reason why....higher subsidies from a single carrier (versus multiple carriers). So all that money that could have been used by AT&T to expand the network is sitting in Apple's bank accounts.

Why those guys would even compare the cost differences between coax to your home and nationwide wireless infrastructure costs and speeds is beyond silly.

Quote:

AT&T has spent billions of dollars installing and upgrading its infrastructure. Keep in mind all those European countries that were originally owned by the government and/or were built and many still are with tax payers monies.

We also need to keep in mind the geotechnical differences between many European nations and large open nations like the US.

1. It will be interesting if, once tethering is enabled, it will force Verizon to lower their data charges (currently $60/month with a 5 GB cap). A lot of folks have stayed with Verizon because they dislike ATT, but tethering could be the last straw that gets them to switch. I know it would tempt me. Maybe I'll use it as a barganning chip to try and negotiate a lower rate for Verizon's mi-fi card and just get a touch.

Whoever said that the iphone tethering is going to be free? And AT&T charges the same $60 for a data card plan.

If they offered the 3GS for that I would jump, but not the 3G. I want it primarily for the hardware improvements.

You can't have it both way. You can't ask someone to pay portion of your iPhone cost and not commit to their conditions. The iPhone no commitment prices are $499 (8GB 3G), $599 (16GB 3GS), or $699 (32GB 3GS).

We don't even have smartphones and my wife and I get about the same level of service on Verizon as some iPhone users get on AT&T. Delayed SMS/MMS messages, dropped calls with full bars, messed up audio during calls, horribly slow data, etc... This is in Columbus, Ohio mind you. I fear the day the iPhone comes to Verizon. Their network is going to come to a crashing halt in less than 24 hours.

I say becoming more common and you somehow infer Blackberries on Sprint. Way to be a comprehensive reader! The Pre on Sprint requires a data plan. The Storm on Verizon requires a data plan. Each new phone that has been designated an iPhone-killer by the media has typically been required to have a data plan. This is becoming a more common event in this category and I dont expect it to change anytime soon.

Why are such a nasty person to everyone?

You said:

Quote:

Note that AT&T is not the first or the least to require data plans for a smartphone. This is becoming a more common event in this category and I dont expect it to change anytime soon.

Blackberries are smartphones. I'm not gonna argue with you- you're way too sensitive yet always make these unfounded pronouncements.

You can't have it both way. You can't ask someone to pay portion of your iPhone cost and not commit to their conditions. The iPhone no commitment prices are $499 (8GB 3G), $599 (16GB 3GS), or $699 (32GB 3GS).

Wow - thanks for the listing. I will treat my precious 32G much beter now.
But tell me- where did I commit to lousy connectivity? I must have missed that clause.

I would love to have bought mine outright, but I do use data (10GB to 40GB a month since I tether). and there would be no cost benefit to paying for it outright from AT&T, Apple or eBay. If they offer legal tethering I will pay for it since it is a service beyond what I agreed to pay for with my contract, but since they don’t I will continue to tethering my iPhone until they offer it.

I would have paid the full price if it was unlocked without a contract. But since it is locked to AT&T (officially) and I personally need the data plan there was no point of paying $400 more.

AT&T has enough blame, but what about Apple? It takes years to expand a Wireless Network. Given that.......

1. What forecast did Apple give AT&T as far as projected US sales of iPhones and estimated average bandwidth per user? I bet it was far lower than anyone had ever expected. Without accurate projections, how could any wireless carrier build out a capable network ahead of the demand? Remember, too, that when the iPhone first came out, the APP Store was not even on anyone's radar. Apple kept adding features without first checking for network capacity.

2. Why did Apple choose just one US Wireless Carrier? Remember, this was Apple's decision, not AT&T's. We all know the reason why....higher subsidies from a single carrier (versus multiple carriers). So all that money that could have been used by AT&T to expand the network is sitting in Apple's bank accounts.

Apple has been as surprised as everyone else by the iPhone's popularity. Back in the EDGE model sales were pretty bad because of the high price and lack of features compared to much cheaper phones. with the 3G, OS 2 and the app store it has been a steamroller and they can't make them fast enough.

Apple went to VZ first and Verizon told them no thank you and the cell phone market was already crowded. Sprint has a much smaller 3G network than AT&T. T-Mobile is only now starting to sell a few 3G phones and their coverage is even worse than AT&T.

and if Apple went with VZ it would be a much more expensive phone due to the radio requirements

eventually around the world, slow internet will be an issue of the past

It will be a long time coming. Historically, the capacity of any new system is usually well behind the demand for it. One can look at hard drives, memory, or the interstate highway system as examples. As soon as more capacity is available the usage increases to fill it to the maximum. I can't wait for the jet packs and flying cars, that will be hilarious.

Blackberries are smartphones. I'm not gonna argue with you- you're way too sensitive yet always make these unfounded pronouncements.

??? ????

I know what I said, i even repeated it to you. You somehow inferred that because I stated that its "becoming more common" with smartphones that this automatically included Blackberries on Sprint. More common doesnt mean all smartphones. It certainly doesnt mean the average cheap Blackberry. Ive read your posts for a long time, you are angry, short-sided and just not very good at any complex thought or idea, but I dont think its too much to ask you to at least re-read what you are going to respond to on this forum. It would go a long way to not have all have the slowest posters hate you around here. Again, more common does not mean any and all you wish to make include.

While I am all for competition in the marketplace, I fear any carrier that receives such a hot product cannot predict the overwhelming demand placed on its infrastructure. Yes, one could argue to just build more towers, do the upgrades in advance, but all these carriers are a business. They will not incur a giant expense with no cash flow coming in to cover. It's a bad PR thing, but it makes most business sense to release these then build infrastructure. You have people on 2 year contracts, they aren't going anywhere. Yes you can call, whine, moan, bitch all you want up the "ladder", but it's not going to get a tower built any quicker or approved any quicker.

Once your 2 year agreement is up, you have every right to switch to any carrier you want. This may be a great balancing act for AT&T to off-load these customers who use up bandwidth and customer service hours spent whining about their service.

I don't discount anyone else's bad experience. But I'm thrilled with AT&T. I live in Southern California and my 3G data service is good. Every now and then it will drop off, but a restart of my 3GS usually fixes it. I don't experience dropped calls either. Customer service has been great both at the stores and via telephone. Even if Verizon had the IPhone and I was out of contract I would not make the switch. I'm very happy with AT&T. The one caveat I should add is that I came from Sprint which was so bad on every level that the bar was set pretty low.

I'm confused. Do they want us to stay in the 20th century and just use cell phones for talking on and perhaps charging too much for text messages? Or do they want us to use these high speed phone networks (such as 3G). Are those high speed networks only for a few?

Sounds like they did a poor forecast and are trying to shift the blame elsewhere, such as the customer.

C'mon people. Use as much bandwidth as you can, on all the networks. Demand always forces supply. In a few years, we'll all enjoy blinding speeds just like one day we wished for a real browser on the phone.

Since the beginning of this semester 2 weeks ago me and many of my friends have been experiencing many dropped calls during morning and early afternoon hours within our university campus. The problem seems worst during the 10 minutes between classes. AT&T was always excellent in our area but I guess they are really having trouble keeping up with demand. The good news is their 3G coverage approaching our town and now just few miles away vs. 30 miles early this summer.

Same here in Oklahoma. I'll be talking to a friend and then I can't hear them but they can hear me. All own iPhones too and it happens the other way around as well. Luckily I haven't had that happen to me while talking to a client. Think it might be an network upgrade issue? I can only hope... Get with it AT&T...

AT&T has enough blame, but what about Apple? It takes years to expand a Wireless Network. Given that.......

1. What forecast did Apple give AT&T as far as projected US sales of iPhones and estimated average bandwidth per user? I bet it was far lower than anyone had ever expected. Without accurate projections, how could any wireless carrier build out a capable network ahead of the demand? Remember, too, that when the iPhone first came out, the APP Store was not even on anyone's radar. Apple kept adding features without first checking for network capacity.

2. Why did Apple choose just one US Wireless Carrier? Remember, this was Apple's decision, not AT&T's. We all know the reason why....higher subsidies from a single carrier (versus multiple carriers). So all that money that could have been used by AT&T to expand the network is sitting in Apple's bank accounts.

I definitely agree with this. Most here are way too quick to blame AT&T for anything and everything, yet they don't have all the facts to make a sound judgment - their judgement is based on face value alone. What if Apple massively underestimated the anticipated data usage of each iPhone owner? Was AT&T aware of the extra bandwidth guzzling features that Apple planned to add? For all we know, AT&T have built their network exactly to the requirements that Apple advised them too, and that Apple made an error on the anticipated demand and bandwidth requirements of the device.

When I first got my iPhone, the network was fine, however now I can't make a call without it failing, and most people that try to call me go straight through to voicemaill, then voicemails often don't show up until the following morning.

It's rubbish and O2 are not providing the service we are paying for!

The iPhone is great, but I'm finding it amost impossible to use, and think I'm going to ditch the network moths ahead of my contract running out to Jailbreak my phone and use it on a network that can provide the service they sell.

Apple why are you restricting us to these sub standard networks???????

Hummer of cell phones? Hmm... so what would one call all of those fancy tv-streaming, all-in-one, bandwidth-hogging phones sold in Japan that has been doing just about the same stuff for years? I don't hear them complaining about network capacity problems. Sure they are a much smaller country with less space.

I think this just shows how behind the US network infrastructure is compared to the rest of the developed nations.

Me think the iPhone gave the US networks a long-needed kick in the a**. Even for those that don't yet have the iPhone on their network, they too are upgrading their networks. They see what is in store for them and don't want to be caught with their pants down.

I know what I said, i even repeated it to you. You somehow inferred that because I stated that it’s "becoming more common" with smartphones that this automatically included Blackberries on Sprint. More common doesn’t mean all smartphones. It certainly doesn’t mean the average cheap Blackberry. I’ve read your posts for a long time, you are angry, short-sided and just not very good at any complex thought or idea, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask you to at least re-read what you are going to respond to on this forum. It would go a long way to not have all have the slowest posters hate you around here. Again, more common does not mean any and all you wish to make include.

"You're too this, you're too that." Whines. I
And if you have to re-explain it over and over than your meandering doesn't belong on any forum.

And your passive/agressive nonsense is really frightening.
Remember it was you that wrote this morning (which besides making absolutely NO sense, was totally trying to be condescending):

Quote:

Aren’t you two brilliant. How can anyone argue with your logic that slower bandwidth should less than faster bandwidth, regardless of the medium in which it is sent?

The bottom line is that you're the only one on here that defends AT&T by making up such lame excuses without telling us who else is doing the same.
Later.

"You're too this, you're too that." Whines. I
And if you have to re-explain it over and over than your meandering doesn't belong on any forum.

And your passive/agressive nonsense is really frightening.
Remember it was you that wrote this morning (which besides making absolutely NO sense, was totally trying to be condenscending):

Later.

Youre so right. I cant imagine how I missed your infallible logic that per-kilobyte costs for cable and wireless costs are exactly the same. How dare a nationwide cellular service that is subsidizing hundreds of dollars per device charge more for slower data than a regional cable company. I now see your genius, oh wise one.

For the world to move forward and a telco to stay relevant these networks will need to be capable of many times more capacity still. Quit whining and get building!

this seems to sum up the thread so far, but it's bad logic. It is not the whiners who will do the building. They are not mutually exclusive--in fact the article makes rather clear that both are happening and have been happening all along.

Nobody would argue that AT&T didn't underestimate the usage demands that the iPhone would create. OK, their bad. But did anyone really expect the iPhone users to use 10X the bandwidth? The "they are sitting on all this money doing nothing" argument is childish. It takes years to build out infrastructure like this-- they can't just throw billions at it to make it go away. Meanwhile, iPhone sales are just accelerating...

I'm not apologizing for AT&T, but I see their situation realistically. I'm just not sure I see the point of raising our bloodpressure whinining about how they are doing nothing...