Constructive comments johnl, and I agree that Hood River, like many other small cities, may not be able to afford their own police force. Tough times force tough decisions, and contracting out might be something that ends up being positive. But remember that the thread started with our buddy isobars attacking the motives of the city officials with a paranoid rant rather than facts. Iso's style almost always involves personal attacks--I know, he called me a liar when I caught him misrepresenting a source. Just look at his escalation in some of the simple windsurfing equipment or destination threads. If someone ventures a different opinion he goes ballistic--try finding his posting about sandwhiches and parks in California.

I appreciate your efforts, which stayed on topic and above the fray.

Actually I wasn't even pointing a finger at anybody. If you read my post, nowhere in it did I blame anybody. Yet it's funny, that everybody assumes I defended Isobars. All I said that in less than one (of five) pages it went off topic and I found that humerous. I didn't say who caused it, and quite frankly it takes two to tango. I didn't even look at who first went off topic.

Back on topic, many people think that when a city contracts out (in California it's to the County, I guess it's to the state in Oregon) that it means they will be responding from their main HQ. But in reality they normally take over the local police station or create a small substation to respond from and the officers are dedicated to the city. So there is no loss in response time or manpower. But there could be some policitical issues since the police chief is local politics and the state police would not be...

I understand Winddoggie. I'm sure others feel the same way. And then you have a choice to ignore him, or to argue with what he says. But attacking the person is not acceptable. There will always be people out there that you just can't get along with. But how you handle that situation shows your (not you, but people in general) level of civility.

I agree john. I try to keep my ridicule civil. And I'm not into threats either. Its just that I can't resist poking my snout in sometimes...he's just so off the hook and clueless (or not) as to how he comes across. His elevated self opinion and the exaggerations of his exploits are irresistible. I must admit though, without iso's comments and the reactions to them, (and Mo's cartoons) I probably wouldn't visit the "off topic" forum often.
Besides, he can't see my posts anyway._________________/w\

I have to admit to putting you on the spot here in this thread. Frankly, I couldn't resist, given the fact that you singled me out and publicly admonished me on a couple occasions in the past concerning isobars. While there have been many here that have tangled roughly with isobars over time, you selectively chose to target me as a problem element. That surprised me, because over time I've never singled you out in an untoward way. Moreover, I can never recall you ever directly confronting isobars for his frequent bad conduct here. That didn't seem right to me, and I reacted. Am I sorry? Yes, but mostly no. I would venture to guess that you feel similarly.

johnl--there is another important point in tenor, and that is the presence of an open mind and a real dialogue. I absolutely enjoy having someone post something that makes me think, makes me check both my assumptions and a few facts. And I appreciate those new to the forum, like coboardhead and from my experience you, that bring an opinion and back it with facts.

But there is another school in political discourse, what I will call the Karl Rove or talk radio style. Return to talking points, repeat them ad nauseum, don't actually check anyone else's story, and use ridicule to belittle any opinion that is not with the approved program. Both parties do it, but it was refined into a weapon using ridicule and fear by Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. It works. I have made a very conscious decision to not be bullied by the bullies. It is both a sign of character and of weakness. But I refuse to let the bullies have the last word.

In this particular thread, had anyone asked what else Hood River might cut, or how bad was the problem it might have gone in a different direction. But there were two personal attacks--Iso's on the motives of the City officials finding themselves still in a hole, and peer's on me, reasoning that somehow I was the mayor and was defending my actions. I live in California, but I have had, and have, fiduciary responsibily over municipal and State budgets. I've also watched the steady cuts in government budgets during the recession, the lowest tax rates in the last hundred years, and the erosion of services that I care about--Parks and schools. Nobody is making those things up, and looking at the condition of our roads (and sewers, which are harder to tell about until they overflow) I know that the rumored waste in government is somehow not so present where I look.

So when points are ignored, when Isobars refuses to join the debate like an adult, and when stevenbard posts some ridiculous bit of bigotry and then tells us all that he is not a racist because he is in an interracial marraige, I will respond in Rovian kind. I am not trying to pursuade people who will not even read outside their bias, I am trying to shout down the bullies.

You do know that Iso pretends not see these posts so he is not insulted at all by these guys.His focus is insulting others.Or is he lying about that. He often forgets who are the 18 people he claims to be censoring from his screen and responds to their posts.
Understand that he is parroting Talk radio to an audience that holds such entertainment to be offensive.
Offensive is his only style, though I have often encouraged him to be the man his smarts could let him be. Soon he will be calling you some nasties.
In the past insults were the norm here but a new adult style has taken hold with every regular here.
Except Iso.

I have to admit to putting you on the spot here in this thread. Frankly, I couldn't resist, given the fact that you singled me out and publicly admonished me on a couple occasions in the past concerning isobars. While there have been many here that have tangled roughly with isobars over time, you selectively chose to target me as a problem element. That surprised me, because over time I've never singled you out in an untoward way. Moreover, I can never recall you ever directly confronting isobars for his frequent bad conduct here. That didn't seem right to me, and I reacted. Am I sorry? Yes, but mostly no. I would venture to guess that you feel similarly.

Well actually in the former instance you acted as "message counter" for recent posts by Isobars. But your posts were "off topic" and contributed nothing to the topic. So I called you on it. Maybe too aggressively (you should have seen the first couple of drafts ). But I firmly stand by my stance, if somebody is out of line in regards to attacking somebody, by everybody else remaining quiet, it signifies that that behavior is acceptable. And it isn't. I'm not one to be quiet. And after being released from being in the "politically correct" prison in Berkeley, I can finally say what I mean and not have my hands tied.

The sad thing is that if I researched all your posts I'm sure the number of good posts far outweigh the number of shots you take at Isobars (and maybe others??). So consider it more of "the peer group" speaking up and trying to pull you back into line than a personal attack.

I haven't seen any 'bad conduct" from Isobars for a few years. Especially since they made an "off topic" group (which as I admitted this is my first time even visiting it). Trying to mix politics and windsurfing is not a good combination. I don't think too many people would think badly of Isobars as a windsurfer (execpt maybe for the BAF sailors who get in his way ) but I'm sure you would find more than a few who dissagree with his politics. So be it. But if the "political leaders" of this country can't even reach common ground on numerous issues, what do you think the odds are of a bunch of windsurfers reaching them?

johnl--there is another important point in tenor, and that is the presence of an open mind and a real dialogue. I absolutely enjoy having someone post something that makes me think, makes me check both my assumptions and a few facts. And I appreciate those new to the forum, like coboardhead and from my experience you, that bring an opinion and back it with facts.

Thanks Mac, personally I try to keep out of the pure political conversations. I look at politics the same way I look at religions. People believe real strong in their politics, many with little or no facts. The entire country is that way. My political beliefs run strongly towards middle of the road Republicans. I will be hard pressed to agree with just about anything a strong Democrat says. So I don't get into discussions about politics because no matter what I say and no matter what they say, we will not agree. But I don't have to. And "facts" are not facts. They are data intrepreted by people who have agendas.

But what irks me is that the politicians we elect can't get past their own egos to reach a common ground. And what REALLY irks me is when a political representative RUNS from his/her state to avoid doing his/her job. That pisses me off. That disrupts the entire political structure. If the majority party of your state is leaning towards one direction, and if your direction is the opposite and loosing, you don't have the option of running from the battle. You grow up, and do your best and accept the consequences of the vote. That is how our entire country works. It isn't up to representatives to do "what they want" but preform the function they were elected to do within the boundries of that position.

And quite frankly, till people grow up in this manner and do the job they were elected to do, I don't see much promise for this country no matter who sits in the White House....

That statement really surprises me. Maybe you should go back and review isobars' comments on the Corpus Christi thread, to include the previous one referenced and linked by isobars himself. You be the judge.

However, I would want you to note how many posts he made, and how he related with other contributors. Also, I would emphasize, as noted by others, that isobars has boldly claimed that he censors the posts of better than 18 folks here (on his computer), so he doesn't actually see our posts. That's of worthy note, for many reasons.

I'll let it go here on this, but you need to closely look at what's going on. Where's the real ugliness? Political and religious views aside, respect is earned. And, I'm with mac about bullies.

He often forgets who are the 18 people he claims to be censoring from his screen and responds to their posts.

It's pretty tough to forget, Dane, since seeing their posts requires several steps, including one GIANT hurdle even before I make the necessary clicks: giving a crap what any of them said (they blew that chance long ago). That happens only when others' comments indicate one of them actually said something harmful to third parties (or useful to me, if I started the thread).

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