I thought it was well established that the Jedi lost the knowledge, presumably sometime during the Republic Dark Ages.

But they even lost the knowledge that they had lost the knowledge, relegating it to a category which Donald Rumsfeld would have called "unknown unknowns". That begins to look like shoddy record-keeping.

It was considered a shock that Orgus Din appeared as an apparition to the Jedi Knight in SWTOR -- so it might be that they lost the knowledge of how to do it during the Jedi purge between KOTOR games, and then completely lost all knowledge of it afterward.

I thought it was well established that the Jedi lost the knowledge, presumably sometime during the Republic Dark Ages.

But they even lost the knowledge that they had lost the knowledge, relegating it to a category which Donald Rumsfeld would have called "unknown unknowns". That begins to look like shoddy record-keeping.

I don't think it's been established that the Jedi who knew how to do it (like Arca Jeth) shared the knowledge with the rest in that era of decentralized Jediness. Or maybe it's been established and I missed it.

Anyway, I just realized something: Apparently, we'll be seeing the planet where midi-chlorians came from (the one with the orange atmosphere seen in the trailer I assume). Another thing I assume is it will be inside the galaxy. Which means that, after they became incorporated into the cells of every species in the galaxy (which itself means that, at one point, the ancestors of literally every living creature in the galaxy where gathered in one place -- CELESTIALS, indeed), midi-chlorians wouldn't be expected to have been present in extragalactic life forms, in the same way that you wouldn't expect mitochondria to have been incorporated into the cells of an organism that did not originate on Earth. So the whole mystery of how the Yuuzhan Vong are empty spaces in the Force wouldn't be much of a mystery that needed to be explained by Zonama Sekot.

Yeah. I don't know why I had to follow that line of thought publicly, but there you go, I did. Sue me.

It was considered a shock that Orgus Din appeared as an apparition to the Jedi Knight in SWTOR -- so it might be that they lost the knowledge of how to do it during the Jedi purge between KOTOR games, and then completely lost all knowledge of it afterward.

That would make sense; the only other spirits who appear in that game are literally ancient–the youngest besides Orgus was Meetra Surik, and she died over 300 years before the game. So yeah, that's a logical retcon.

I thought it was well established that the Jedi lost the knowledge, presumably sometime during the Republic Dark Ages.

But they even lost the knowledge that they had lost the knowledge, relegating it to a category which Donald Rumsfeld would have called "unknown unknowns". That begins to look like shoddy record-keeping.

I don't think it's been established that the Jedi who knew how to do it (like Arca Jeth) shared the knowledge with the rest in that era of decentralized Jediness. Or maybe it's been established and I missed it.

Anyway, I just realized something: Apparently, we'll be seeing the planet where midi-chlorians came from (the one with the orange atmosphere seen in the trailer I assume). Another thing I assume is it will be inside the galaxy. Which means that, after they became incorporated into the cells of every species in the galaxy (which itself means that, at one point, the ancestors of literally every living creature in the galaxy where gathered in one place -- CELESTIALS, indeed), midi-chlorians wouldn't be expected to have been present in extragalactic life forms, in the same way that you wouldn't expect mitochondria to have been incorporated into the cells of an organism that did not originate on Earth. So the whole mystery of how the Yuuzhan Vong are empty spaces in the Force wouldn't be much of a mystery that needed to be explained by Zonama Sekot.

Yeah. I don't know why I had to follow that line of thought publicly, but there you go, I did. Sue me.

I thought it was well established that the Jedi lost the knowledge, presumably sometime during the Republic Dark Ages.

But they even lost the knowledge that they had lost the knowledge, relegating it to a category which Donald Rumsfeld would have called "unknown unknowns". That begins to look like shoddy record-keeping.

I don't think it's been established that the Jedi who knew how to do it (like Arca Jeth) shared the knowledge with the rest in that era of decentralized Jediness. Or maybe it's been established and I missed it.

Anyway, I just realized something: Apparently, we'll be seeing the planet where midi-chlorians came from (the one with the orange atmosphere seen in the trailer I assume). Another thing I assume is it will be inside the galaxy. Which means that, after they became incorporated into the cells of every species in the galaxy (which itself means that, at one point, the ancestors of literally every living creature in the galaxy where gathered in one place -- CELESTIALS, indeed), midi-chlorians wouldn't be expected to have been present in extragalactic life forms, in the same way that you wouldn't expect mitochondria to have been incorporated into the cells of an organism that did not originate on Earth. So the whole mystery of how the Yuuzhan Vong are empty spaces in the Force wouldn't be much of a mystery that needed to be explained by Zonama Sekot.

Yeah. I don't know why I had to follow that line of thought publicly, but there you go, I did. Sue me.

Where did you get the impression we'll be seeing the planet where midi-chlorians come from?

So as was pointed out in the Rebels thread, SWTOR removed the "homeworld" description of Korriban from the hololog entry. A surprisingly quick move considering the uncertainty of the situation.

I suppose this prompts me to put the canon panic aside and ask another more interesting question...

Let us assume that this "Moraband" somehow predates Korriban, or introduces a branch of Dark Siders far more Mortis/Mystical in nature that predate the Sith species (perhaps even influencing their evolution and granting their name). Something more akin to Son like dark sider Celestials. Or an evil version of the Whills...

How would this make you feel?

Furthermore, what if the Celestials/Force Wielders/Ones/Mortispeople/CrazyMaskPeople aren't just the architects, but also the Whills themselves? What if all these nutty concepts suddenly got rolled into one? How would you react to that? (Oh, and while we're at it, we can assume they created the ThoYor/Monoliths too)

I thought there was confusion from day one between Korriban and Ziost, and the homeworld of the Sith seems pretty irrelevant since there's a whole region of space that they basically ruled until the GHW.

And I always thought it was dumb that the Force-wielders/Ones were conflated with the Celestials because now it has opened the door for these episodes to poop all over that. Considering the bulk of that elaboration was done in Apocalypse, I'm not particularly broken up by it though.

So as was pointed out in the Rebels thread, SWTOR removed the "homeworld" description of Korriban from the hololog entry. A surprisingly quick move considering the uncertainty of the situation.

I suppose this prompts me to put the canon panic aside and ask another more interesting question...

Let us assume that this "Moraband" somehow predates Korriban, or introduces a branch of Dark Siders far more Mortis/Mystical in nature that predate the Sith species (perhaps even influencing their evolution and granting their name). Something more akin to Son like dark sider Celestials. Or an evil version of the Whills...

How would this make you feel?

Furthermore, what if the Celestials/Force Wielders/Ones/Mortispeople/CrazyMaskPeople aren't just the architects, but also the Whills themselves? What if all these nutty concepts suddenly got rolled into one? How would you react to that? (Oh, and while we're at it, we can assume they created the ThoYor/Monoliths too)

I'd love it all! It doesn't conflict with canon and I love immortal roots of evil.

I thought there was confusion from day one between Korriban and Ziost, and the homeworld of the Sith seems pretty irrelevant since there's a whole region of space that they basically ruled until the GHW.

And I always thought it was dumb that the Force-wielders/Ones were conflated with the Celestials because now it has opened the door for these episodes to poop all over that. Considering the bulk of that elaboration was done in Apocalypse, I'm not particularly broken up by it though.

That's a retcon I don't think we'll need to worry about the episode ruining simply because the nature of the celestials is so frickin ambiguous that you can morph them into anything. It also flows from the fact that the identity of the Mortis Ones never really was properly addressed in the show itself, a rather frustrating (debatable) flaw of that entire arc.

Though I will say that Filoni did have input on the issue, so he's probably aware of the Celestial tie in. And Lucas doesn't care. I do think an end result where Whills/Celestials end up being interrelated would be kind of fun though. Obviously, they don't 'have' to be (as I have never before seen the idea discussed here), but it could be a nice way to unify so many unique concepts, similar to one higher being getting a different interpretation by different cultures.

I'd rather the Ones hadn't gotten conflated with Celestials because I liked how ambiguous everything was. But then, not very long at all after the episodes aired, a book series came along explaining everything. Now it's impossible to interpret those episodes as a metaphorical vision imparted by the Force. Nope. All of it actually happened. There really were Force Gods chilling in a parallel dimension, keeping the balance between dark and light before Anakin caused them all to die.

I'd rather the Ones hadn't gotten conflated with Celestials because I liked how ambiguous everything was. But then, not very long at all after the episodes aired, a book series came along explaining everything. Now it's impossible to interpret those episodes as a metaphorical vision imparted by the Force. Nope. All of it actually happened. There really were Force Gods chilling in a parallel dimension, keeping the balance between dark and light before Anakin caused them all to die.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty shortsighted to involve the Ones in FOTJ at all. The trilogy of episodes function best like the cave sequence on Dagobah. Unexplained and completely up to the viewer's interpretation.

Plus I think the interpretation that was "chosen" for us doesn't even match the content of the episodes.

Yeah, I don't quite understand where the idea that they had any influence on the galaxy at large came from. The whole reason they were 'imprisoned' in that dimension was so they couldn't. The dialogue explicitly states this.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas decided to correlate the Whills with these "Force gods" or "Force-wielders." We were supposed to get an explanation as to why Father's body became incorporeal at death, whereas Son and Daughter did not, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is it. I wouldn't be surprised if it was achieved through some sense of personal balance, given we see Yoda thrashing his dark doppelganger in the trailer.