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I don't believe in any other religions either. I am disgusted by hypocrites like those priests molesting kids. I am disgusted they aren't thrown in jail and get moved around to different dioceses.

No that is not the work of satan these dudes were just closet gays in the 70's when it was not ok to be a gay person out in the open. They thought god would save them from being gay but obviously it didn't.

Props to all the scientists/engineers/people with techinical backgrounds.

When are you sending your son to die for those who don't like or appreciate you?

Why does anyone at all have to die? And in the Bible, there is no dilemma, wherein God has to choose between killing his "sons" or the heathens. He just kills, as part of his wrath. Where has the wrath gone, when people do evil now? Antibiotics, pesticides and sci-fi's ghost hunters stopped the wrath.

Why does anyone at all have to die? And in the Bible, there is no dilemma, wherein God has to choose between killing his "sons" or the heathens. He just kills, as part of his wrath. Where has the wrath gone, when people do evil now? Antibiotics, pesticides and sci-fi's ghost hunters stopped the wrath.

Jesus had to die to redeem what Adam lost in the Garden by sinning. Which is the right to life eternal as God intended on a paradise earth. Which is why the bible refers to Jesus as the ransom, last Adam, or Eternal Father.

Ransom because his perfect life, brought back the right for Jehovah to once again bring mankind to perfection, no sickness or death, which is the wages of sin. Last Adam Because he replaced the first one, and eternal father because he will live eternally, and has bought eternity back for mankind, therefore, eternally our father in place of Adam, who should have been our eternal Father.

People have to die because they chose death instead of life. It's Jehovah's rules. He intends for man to live righteous. Man can choose to do so. He hates wickedness. He has the right to choose which people he wants to live on earth, and he chose righteous people. If you had the power to make the earth a peaceful place where humans do not get sick and die, would you? Surely you would. Well Jehovah plans to. And he will do it by removing all unruly tenants, the same way you might if you owned and apt building that some would keep clean, be model citizens, but others vandalize, commits atrocities and destroy your property. Which would you allow to stay? Rhetorical, I already know your answer.

what are you talkign about....tons of bad people live every day... I don't see Bernie Madoff dead yet and if there is anyone that should be publicly murdered it is him.

Mother Teresa did not live 1000 years. Nor did Gandhi. Nor did any pope. Nor do priests....SO every single of of these people are EVIL?!?!?? GTFO

A much more rational explanation is that humans have a lifespan....celluar reproduction slows down in old age. Our DNA is hard coded to only live so many years. Science has prolonged human life by removing things like disease, but at the end of the day people can't escape death because of things like cancer and heart disease and a slew of otehr medical conditions we see more frequently because people just live longer now as opposed to 50 years ago.

Magic Johnson got the beast and he is still alive. By your definition he violated a commandment....instead of worrying about following commandments he was getting it in with strippers (or isiah thomas).

Jesus had to die to redeem what Adam lost in the Garden by sinning. Which is the right to life eternal as God intended on a paradise earth. Which is why the bible refers to Jesus as the ransom, last Adam, or Eternal Father.

Ransom because his perfect life, brought back the right for Jehovah to once again bring mankind to perfection, no sickness or death, which is the wages of sin. Last Adam Because he replaced the first one, and eternal father because he will live eternally, and has bought eternity back for mankind, therefore, eternally our father in place of Adam, who should have been our eternal Father.

People have to die because they chose death instead of life. It's Jehovah's rules. He intends for man to live righteous. Man can choose to do so. He hates wickedness. He has the right to choose which people he wants to live on earth, and he chose righteous people. If you had the power to make the earth a peaceful place where humans do not get sick and die, would you? Surely you would. Well Jehovah plans to. And he will do it by removing all unruly tenants, the same way you might if you owned and apt building that some would keep clean, be model citizens, but others vandalize, commits atrocities and destroy your property. Which would you allow to stay? Rhetorical, I already know your answer.

I did not ask you to explain why Jesus, the Christian deity, had to die, since I do not even know if he existed and certainly do not value one death over that of millions of beings: human and otherwise. I asked you about the wrath directed against innocent children, women, and others, sanctioned, and performed, by the God of Israel.

In the bible, oftentimes for no apparent reason, e.g., the death-plagues showered on all of Egypt (the result of God's geopolitical anger with one person: the Pharaoh). Why punish innocent people, because of one person's actions? To force that person to allow the Jews out of Egypt? Well, I would assume an all-powerful being could get them out, without slaughtering all of a nation's first-born children.

My other point is in relation to the God of Israel's supposed powers. Why do we not see his power today? I could just as well believe in Zeus or Odin, if demonstration of power is what I am to go by as proof of a deity's existence. Is it wrong to ask for some sort of evidence? Something to inspire faith in the "Lord?" If it is, I am guilty as charged: I cannot believe in Krishna, Jesus, Jehovah, Ahura Mazda, Chango, or any other diety, without proof. And, even if I see proof, I still do not see the need to read a bunch of stale stories and mull over the same crap.

Furthermore, you should look up the word righteousness. It does not equate with following any sort of religion. It entails living a moral life. One can definitely follow a religious teacher and be devoid of morality and spirituality, your church, amongst others, has proven this to be the case. I am a moral, spiritual person, but I am not affiliated with any religion.

My final point relates to evil. If your God is the supreme being, creator of all, then GWB must be God, because he created two wars: in Afghanistan and in Iraq. You must be God, because you created this thread. In other words, creation does not make you God. And where is God's rule on Earth? If he is not ruling Earth, he is not supreme, at least not on Earth. Maybe he is supreme on mars.

And the bible, no matter how you put it, is the word of man. The gospels are stories about Jesus. In fact, most of the bible are stories about different characters. Some of the other books are prophecies. In either case, we are receiving a product shaped by the culture, prejudices, attachments, likes and dislikes of a human being.

Preaching the Good News

K4L, I am not singling JWs out, but I think this would be good for you, amongst many other misguided, hopefully well-intentioned, people to read.

“You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.”
--> What does anger, wrath truly do to a being, be it a God or an insect? Is he or she truly free, good, humble, if enraged?

“What is evil? Killing is evil, lying is evil, slandering is evil, abuse is evil, gossip is evil: envy is evil, hatred is evil, to cling tofalse doctrine is evil; all these things are evil. And what is the root of evil? Desire is the root of evil, illusion is the root of evil.”
--> Do you see how your desire, for salvation, for position within Jehovah's hierarchy, deludes and binds you? Do you see the evil of C.T. Russel's gossip and slander of other groups? Do you perceive the vicious cycle it produces, the narcotic effect it has? We are "God's people," implying that others are not, which implies superiority.

"The world is full of evil and sorrow, because it is full of lust.
Men go astray because they think that delusion is better than truth.
Rather than truth they follow error,
which is pleasant to look at in the beginning
but in the end causes anxiety, tribulation, and misery."
--> Do you follow what fulfills your lust: salvation and permanency of the self, or what selflessly serves truth and goodness? Does your practice breed peace, freedom and joy or anxiety and misery (Armageddon, hell, etc.)? Is your righteousness in existence for its own good, or for the good of your salvation? What are the implications of either?

I did not ask you to explain why Jesus, the Christian deity, had to die, since I do not even know if he existed and certainly do not value one death over that of millions of beings: human and otherwise. I asked you about the wrath directed against innocent children, women, and others, sanctioned, and performed, by the God of Israel.

What makes you doubt Jesus existed? You don't doubt the Buddha existed. And his death was more important than any other because it means life for billions. Real life. Not the facade we now call life either. Eternal. So yes, his death is more important than any other.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

In the bible, oftentimes for no apparent reason, e.g., the death-plagues showered on all of Egypt (the result of God's geopolitical anger with one person: the Pharaoh). Why punish innocent people, because of one person's actions? To force that person to allow the Jews out of Egypt? Well, I would assume an all-powerful being could get them out, without slaughtering all of a nation's first-born children.

Jehovah had to make the point of showing who the true God was. The Egyptians thought their God's would protect them, so the attack on Egypt was to show that their God's were false. Each plague was directed toward a specific God who was supposed to protect the Egyptians. And this was done to show that Jehovah was backing the Jews as his people at the time. So no, it needed to be done the way it was done. Surely Osirus and the other Gods would not allow Jehovah the false God to exact plagues on their worshipers? It's this simple: The world needs to know there is a Jehovah.

Things you fail to mention: The fact that whichever of the Egyptians took heed that Jehovah was the true God was spared of all malice from the plagues, and even when the Jews left, whichever Egyptians that wanted to leave with them, went as well. Jehovah is lacks even an ounce of unrighteousness. Anything he does exibits justice.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

My other point is in relation to the God of Israel's supposed powers. Why do we not see his power today? I could just as well believe in Zeus or Odin, if demonstration of power is what I am to go by as proof of a deity's existence. Is it wrong to ask for some sort of evidence? Something to inspire faith in the "Lord?" If it is, I am guilty as charged: I cannot believe in Krishna, Jesus, Jehovah, Ahura Mazda, Chango, or any other diety, without proof. And, even if I see proof, I still do not see the need to read a bunch of stale stories and mull over the same crap.

But Jehovah's power is on display. He has a people for his name, and the preaching work is getting done on an unprecedented scale. Thousands of years ago these things were written about, and today they are on display. Is that not power? Where are those who live in the name of Zeus? Odin?

I mean, I don't know how else to put it to you. Jehovah said in Isaiah, in the end time he would take out a people made of all nations for his name, who learn his ways and live them, and will learn war no more. :CHECK: That has happened.

Jesus said in mat 28:14 before the end comes, while we're in the time of the end, the good news of God's Kingdom had to be preached in the entire inhabited earth. :Check: That is happening. Jehovah's people by far and away are doing the most organized and effective preaching work in human history, as should be expected, because Jehovah wants every person with ample opportunity to have a chance to know him. Only way to do that is by teaching others about him.

Instead of shooting it down, it may do you a bit of good to wonder why only one group of people can attribute these scriptures to them.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Furthermore, you should look up the word righteousness. It does not equate with following any sort of religion. It entails living a moral life. One can definitely follow a religious teacher and be devoid of morality and spirituality, your church, amongst others, has proven this to be the case. I am a moral, spiritual person, but I am not affiliated with any religion.

Jehovah is the moral giver. So if you ignore the moral giver, how moral are you? How spiritual are you if you neglect the provider of spirituality? This is not to say one who does not believe in Jehovah HAS to be a vagabond, but without him, no matter how good a persons intentions are, you will fall short morally and spiritually.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

My final point relates to evil. If your God is the supreme being, creator of all, then GWB must be God, because he created two wars: in Afghanistan and in Iraq. You must be God, because you created this thread. In other words, creation does not make you God. And where is God's rule on Earth? If he is not ruling Earth, he is not supreme, at least not on Earth. Maybe he is supreme on mars.

Creating wars and threads in relation to all forms of life is a vast difference. The creator of all things allowing his creations to create. Which one is greater? There's your difference.

And have you not heard? Jehovah never planned to rule on earth, it is, after all, called the KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS. Jesus, as his King will rule over the earth from his heavenly post, to restore it the way Jehovah intended it to be. In fact, we know this to be a certainty, because that Kingdom already has it's subjects on earth! Already, Jehovah's government has trumped the world governments. How so? Well Jehovah has somehow managed to get people from all nations to come together united in worship, living morally clean lives, in love and compassion for others, while remaining peaceful towards each other. That is the entire goal of the U.N. and they will never get that done. No other entity on earth has accomplished the form of love, peace and unity that Jehovah has for his people. If you're being honest, you'd be hard pressed to disagree.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

And the bible, no matter how you put it, is the word of man. The gospels are stories about Jesus. In fact, most of the bible are stories about different characters. Some of the other books are prophecies. In either case, we are receiving a product shaped by the culture, prejudices, attachments, likes and dislikes of a human being.

It is utterly impossible for the Bible to be the word of man. Man cannot atone for prophetic word in it. Only someone with future knowledge could do such, and men do not have that ability.

K4L, I am not singling JWs out, but I think this would be good for you, amongst many other misguided, hopefully well-intentioned, people to read.

“You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.”
--> What does anger, wrath truly do to a being, be it a God or an insect? Is he or she truly free, good, humble, if enraged?

“What is evil? Killing is evil, lying is evil, slandering is evil, abuse is evil, gossip is evil: envy is evil, hatred is evil, to cling tofalse doctrine is evil; all these things are evil. And what is the root of evil? Desire is the root of evil, illusion is the root of evil.”
--> Do you see how your desire, for salvation, for position within Jehovah's hierarchy, deludes and binds you? Do you see the evil of C.T. Russel's gossip and slander of other groups? Do you perceive the vicious cycle it produces, the narcotic effect it has? We are "God's people," implying that others are not, which implies superiority.

It's funny you should mention this. Jehovah is the only God. Therefore if one is worshiping someone other than him, then it constitutes false worship, because, no other God exists. That has nothing to do with being superior, has everything to do with what's real. Since Jehovah is the only True God, then truth only can come from him. So it's necessary to declare him the way.

Jesus said once: Mat 7:
13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

Not many will want to travel that narrow road, but that is where life is, according to the greatest man who ever lived. How do you get there, according to this man? Mat 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

Jehovah is Jesus father, doing his will will gain you life. That simple.

The Buddha, did not even believe in a God, yet millions chant to a statue of a fat almost naked man with beads, as if he were in fact a God. Tell me, how does chanting, praying, meditating or whatever to a statue help someone's spirituality? I don't see any truth in lighting incense and chanting to a man made statue.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

"The world is full of evil and sorrow, because it is full of lust.
Men go astray because they think that delusion is better than truth.
Rather than truth they follow error,
which is pleasant to look at in the beginning
but in the end causes anxiety, tribulation, and misery."
--> Do you follow what fulfills your lust: salvation and permanency of the self, or what selflessly serves truth and goodness? Does your practice breed peace, freedom and joy or anxiety and misery (Armageddon, hell, etc.)? Is your righteousness in existence for its own good, or for the good of your salvation? What are the implications of either?

Who is a more peaceful people than the ones who refuse to bear arms and cause harm to their neighbor? Truth is freedom, Jehovah has provided that. What greater joy is there than having a loving and peaceful brotherhood, while having a personal relationship with the true God?

It's funny you should mention this. Jehovah is the only God. Therefore if one is worshiping someone other than him, then it constitutes false worship, because, no other God exists. That has nothing to do with being superior, has everything to do with what's real. Since Jehovah is the only True God, then truth only can come from him. So it's necessary to declare him the way.

Jehovah, the Israeli clan deity, is the only God, only according to you and those who think like you. I am sure there are many others who would disagree and promote a different supreme being. And what would make either of you right? The strength of your delusions?

And Of course religious egotism has nothing to do with you actually being superior, you have no superiority over me, I have none over you, in actuality.

It is truly a matter of your organization, and very likely you, feeling spiritually superior, in spite of the falsity of this. If you did not, why would you put such an emphasis on paradise earth and 144,000? If you did not, why say that Jehovah is "the only true God?" Any free thinker can see the d!ck measuring contest involved with doing this.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Jesus said once: Mat 7:
13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. Not many will want to travel that narrow road, but that is where life is, according to the greatest man who ever lived. How do you get there, according to this man? Mat 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

Thank you for posting this classic piece of fear, written for (he needs people to write for him) the God of Israel, threatening the critical thinker with wrath.

I guess you respond to fear, K4L, while I laugh in its face. I cannot be fooled by these carrot and stick games. I do what is right because it is right, because I care about my effect on others, not because it will reward me.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Jehovah is Jesus father, doing his will will gain you life. That simple.

Everything is about gain, with you. Again, further demonstration of your selfish reason for following the God of the Jews.

I am sure that, if you were raised in a different society, where they worship a tree, you would follow the tree God, as an adult, as long as you were properly threatened and told you could "gain life," by doing so.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

The Buddha, did not even believe in a God, yet millions chant to a statue of a fat almost naked man with beads, as if he were in fact a God. Tell me, how does chanting, praying, meditating or whatever to a statue help someone's spirituality? I don't see any truth in lighting incense and chanting to a man made statue.

The Buddha believes Gods exist, but he deems developing ourselves morally and spiritually, as opposed to speculation into that which is unknowable, as the correct form of development.

Did you know that one of the main teachings of The Enlightened One is the Middle Path: not to do too much of anything, including eating food to excess? Why would he be fat? None of the Buddhist texts say he was fat, nude or bald.

My signature shows a historically-based picture of the Buddha: he was slim, of Indian descent, tall, had "golden skin," Black, long, curly hair and wore an orange robe, which is why Buddhist monks do as well.

The fat man you speak of is a Chinese deity, depicted as a Buddhist monk, named Hotei, who sits in the lotus (meditation) position. He is not mentioned in Buddhist texts and is insignificant within Buddhism. Chinese people rub his belly for luck and depict him as fat because of their historical idealization of fat people. In China, Buddhism is often combined with their local religions, kind of like Voodoo with Christianity.

As for the benefits of meditation, which have nothing to do with statues, it helps to clear the mind, give one a feeling of peace, regeneration, freedom compassion and joy. Below is a link to a Yoga (Hindu) meditation. I am sure that you won't use it, because of its connections to Satan.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

From Wikipedia:

Amongst Westerners new to Buddhism, Budai (Hotei) is often confused with the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama. However, the two are visually very distinct. Gautama is commonly depicted as being tall and slender in appearance (although since no images of him from his lifetime exist, this depiction of him is unverifiable and possibly idealized); Budai is short and overweight. (Buddha means "one who has achieved a state of perfect enlightenment" and there are several people who have been given the title.)

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Who is a more peaceful people than the ones who refuse to bear arms and cause harm to their neighbor? Truth is freedom, Jehovah has provided that. What greater joy is there than having a loving and peaceful brotherhood, while having a personal relationship with the true God?

There is no brotherhood, with the Russell's Witnesses organization, there is selfhood. If you are like the next man, then you and he are brothers. This is the same amongst the witnesses and many other religions. True brotherhood means being able to call the Hindu a brother, and even the animals, without the disdain and feeling of superiority that I can tell is in your heart.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

What makes you doubt Jesus existed? You don't doubt the Buddha existed. And his death was more important than any other because it means life for billions. Real life. Not the facade we now call life either. Eternal. So yes, his death is more important than any other.

I don't know if either existed. It really does not matter if the Buddha did or did not, what interests me (and him) is that I can benefit from his wisdom, compassion, example and ability to defeat selfishness, greed and suffering in himself and others. He came to save the world NOW, not in the future, and, though I do not agree with all of his teachings, the freedom and compassion with which he acted and taught will only blossom and spread. His teachings are life-changing and part of the teachings that a truly spiritual person should study.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Jehovah had to make the point of showing who the true God was. The Egyptians thought their God's would protect them, so the attack on Egypt was to show that their God's were false. Each plague was directed toward a specific God who was supposed to protect the Egyptians. And this was done to show that Jehovah was backing the Jews as his people at the time. So no, it needed to be done the way it was done. Surely Osirus and the other Gods would not allow Jehovah the false God to exact plagues on their worshipers? It's this simple: The world needs to know there is a Jehovah.

So... Jehovah had to demonstrate his existence through wrath, by making people ill and killing them? Would parting the seas not suffice? I guess not.

And the Jews were his people, "at the time." I guess when it came time to convert Greeks and Romans, he changed from being the tribal God of the Jews to the God of the known world. Makes sense.

And let me get this right. So... if, in exodus, an Egyptian parent did not believe in the Jewish tribal God, if one is to believe the bible, their first born was to die. You truly agree with that, "it had to be done?" If you do, I cannot see how you could ever speak of compassion or love. I could not see how such a person would even know what it is to be moved by another being's suffering.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Things you fail to mention: The fact that whichever of the Egyptians took heed that Jehovah was the true God was spared of all malice from the plagues, and even when the Jews left, whichever Egyptians that wanted to leave with them, went as well. Jehovah is lacks even an ounce of unrighteousness. Anything he does exibits justice.

How would an entire kingdom, with a richer, more ancient history than the Jews, be able, individual, by individual to accept the Jewish God? And did you not know that Jews consider their God as belonging exclusively to them, even today? Even though they consider it the creator, they consider it their God.

Malice:1: desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another2: intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse

Oh, and again, what about the children? You cannot defend this evil deed, committed by the God of the Jews, against children, can you? Or do you think slaughtering newborns, for what the country's ruler has done, a just thing?

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

But Jehovah's power is on display. He has a people for his name, and the preaching work is getting done on an unprecedented scale. Thousands of years ago these things were written about, and today they are on display. Is that not power? Where are those who live in the name of Zeus? Odin?

It is called proselytizing, i.e., handing out bibles and coercing people into believing that they will only be rewarded, with selfish everlasting existence, if they obey. If the same had been done with Zeus, you would be worshiping him, and I would be trying to tell you that Zeus and his son, Hercules, are not real.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

I mean, I don't know how else to put it to you. Jehovah said in Isaiah, in the end time he would take out a people made of all nations for his name, who learn his ways and live them, and will learn war no more. :CHECK: That has happened.

Uhhhhh Catholics, Baptists, and Pentecostals have many more members, in all countries, BTW. The Quakers, and a few other groups, also follow a non-violent philosophy.

Moreover, the only reason you do not believe in war is because you are instructed in that regard. Or, is it a mere coincidence that the Russell Witnesses governing body is against war and that you are also against it? Too easy. By the way, violence does not have to be physical. The very superiority your organization exudes breeds hatred, division and violence. You just see the fruits of it, while others engage in it.

And, oftentimes, Russell's Witnesses face inspire the wrath of their local govt, as was the case with a group of African JWs who were persecuted in the 70's, for refusing to buy a government ID, under the guidance of the governing body. When violence came upon them, the governing body, puffed their chests out and moved forward with their decision to tell these people to not buy an ID card.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Jesus said in mat 28:14 before the end comes, while we're in the time of the end, the good news of God's Kingdom had to be preached in the entire inhabited earth. :Check: That is happening. Jehovah's people by far and away are doing the most organized and effective preaching work in human history, as should be expected, because Jehovah wants every person with ample opportunity to have a chance to know him. Only way to do that is by teaching others about him.

If your preaching work is so effective, why have relatively new movements, like the pentecostal movement, recruited in the hundreds of millions, while your organization is still at 7 mill? Oh... I forgot, the narrow (VIP) Russell-gate.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Instead of shooting it down, it may do you a bit of good to wonder why only one group of people can attribute these scriptures to them.

Actually, you are not the only group of Christians with a message of non-violence, who preach worldwide and who recruit people. And don't you feel cheap and empty, repeating the same terminology every other JW repeats, as heard by another repeater?

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Jehovah is the moral giver. So if you ignore the moral giver, how moral are you? How spiritual are you if you neglect the provider of spirituality? This is not to say one who does not believe in Jehovah HAS to be a vagabond, but without him, no matter how good a persons intentions are, you will fall short morally and spiritually.

So, you're saying that a person who sees another kicking a helpless animal on the street and intervenes is not moral, because they do not go to CT Russell's theology New World Translation and Church? Ha

So everyone who does not believe in Jesus according to the writings of Charles Tayes Russell: Miracle Wheat Salesman, buried under a pyramid, is immoral? If you wish not to be a hypocrite, I suggest you go door to door telling people what you told me: that they are immoral for not believing in Charles T. Russell. I am sure you will not, because it will stop you from reaching your monthly quota of added sheep and also force you to recognize the truly hateful, immoral and haughty nature of your practice.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Creating wars and threads in relation to all forms of life is a vast difference. The creator of all things allowing his creations to create. Which one is greater? There's your difference.

Creating wars, results in both loss of life and, indirectly, creation of life. And if you want to look at biological creation of life, all life is SELF-sustaining, it yearns to proCREATE. So I guess, since your God no longer needs to create, he simply retired.

Like the Buddha says, we all create. The world is evil because we are, it is becoming desensitized because we are. It is not sick because of Satan, and it can be good for all living beings if we decide to allow it to be. This is real, it can be understood and live.

Your explanations are mere sophistry and the result of a threat to your religious ego, which you sense in my person. I will meditate for your salvation.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

And have you not heard? Jehovah never planned to rule on earth, it is, after all, called the KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS. Jesus, as his King will rule over the earth from his heavenly post, to restore it the way Jehovah intended it to be. In fact, we know this to be a certainty, because that Kingdom already has it's subjects on earth! Already, Jehovah's government has trumped the world governments. How so? Well Jehovah has somehow managed to get people from all nations to come together united in worship, living morally clean lives, in love and compassion for others, while remaining peaceful towards each other. That is the entire goal of the U.N. and they will never get that done. No other entity on earth has accomplished the form of love, peace and unity that Jehovah has for his people. If you're being honest, you'd be hard pressed to disagree.

No, I never heard of Jesus ruling the Earth, maybe because I am not one of Russell's Witnesses. Is this part of the 1914 prophecy, where, since the Earth did not end, Russell said that Jesuss came to "invisibly rule," from his throne on Earth? Is that like when a loser (Russell's Witnesses) has an invisible sexy, powerful girlfriend (Jesus)?

And, as LJ recently stated, your organization is fraught with sex abuse scandals. This shows us that you are not transformed by being a Russell's Witness: your members are still sexually deviant, insensitive, voraciously self-centered and dishonest. This makes you the same, if not worst, as the statue-worshipers your cult build's its members self esteem by attacking.

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

It is utterly impossible for the Bible to be the word of man. Man cannot atone for prophetic word in it. Only someone with future knowledge could do such, and men do not have that ability.

There is no word in the Bible, independent of its writers, even Trillion, a Jew, explained that these are generalizations that you are pointing to. Essentially, anything can be made to fit your prophecies. If you want to prove the bible as being the "word of an omniscient being or force," show me where the bible mentions the name Hitler, CT Russell, Osama Bin Laden, G.W. Bush, etcetera.

Finally the day arrived, October 1, 1914, and on the morning of that day Charles T. Russell as president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society announced to the headquarters staff of workers in Brooklyn, New York: “The Gentile Times have ended and their kings have had their day.”-Charles Taze Russell[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
When 1914 passed, they changed their prediction; 1914 became the year that Jesus "invisibly" began his rule.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

"we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (1889). 3 -Charles Taze Russell[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

In 1923, a Watchtower article predicted"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge"[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]1941-Fall: The world is "...in the remaining months before Armageddon." [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Leviticus 20:27
"And as for a man or woman whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they shall be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."-New World Translation

Jehovah, the Israeli clan deity, is the only God, only according to you and those who think like you. I am sure there are many others who would disagree and promote a different supreme being. And what would make either of you right? The strength of your delusions?

The difference is Jehovah acts, and the others don't, because they don't exist.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

It is truly a matter of your organization, and very likely you, feeling spiritually superior, in spite of the falsity of this. If you did not, why would you put such an emphasis on paradise earth and 144,000? If you did not, why say that Jehovah is "the only true God?" Any free thinker can see the d!ck measuring contest involved with doing this.

The emphasis is put on to help the people learn the truth. How can one expect to have a relationship with God, if they are not taught the truth about him, and his intentions? What Jehovah's people preach will help one to learn the truth about God. Being that Jehovah has allowed his enemy to rule over mankind, this enemy wants to cloud the minds of unbelievers. Whatever it takes. The devil does not care to recieve the glory, he just wishes that Jehovah does not. Which is the reason why the truth must be declared, so the devil is made out to be what he is, the best liar in the history of intelligent life.

So, take you D!ck contest somewhere else.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]Thank you for posting this classic piece of fear, written for (he needs people to write for him) the God of Israel, threatening the critical thinker with wrath.

I guess you respond to fear, K4L, while I laugh in its face. I cannot be fooled by these carrot and stick games. I do what is right because it is right, because I care about my effect on others, not because it will reward me.[quote]
First, why scoff at the fact the Jehovah used man to write for him? Lemme quickly just tell you how much smarter than he is than you. If, for instance, He would have magically made the book appear, would you believe that instead? Probably not. Makes better sense to have many men, in different era's write it, along with prophetic word, that those truly seeking God, will have no issue making sense of, correct? Have you ever pondered what the pro's would be in allowing men to write the book? I doubt you have, because you are sooooooo smart already! What would be the need?

Secondly, all things I do right, I do because it is what Jehovah would do. The reward is just a bonus. And again, how silly are you at scoffing at a person who wants to live forever in a paradise, in love and peace? Wouldn't you mind being there? Maybe not!

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]Everything is about gain, with you. Again, further demonstration of your selfish reason for following the God of the Jews.

I am sure that, if you were raised in a different society, where they worship a tree, you would follow the tree God, as an adult, as long as you were properly threatened and told you could "gain life," by doing so.[quote] You're so wrong about this, if it weren't a serious matter, I'd piss myself from laughter.

JW's worship Jehovah due to the abundance of truth. Everything else is a collosal fail in comparison. Just the way it is. Nothing else has logical explanations of why people suffer, where are the dead, is this what God purposed, to name a few. You, Mr. truth! You explain these things better, and I'll be glad to listen! Or, I'll go this tree for answers, but last i checked, they don't talk. Or write.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]The Buddha believes Gods exist, but he deems developing ourselves morally and spiritually, as opposed to speculation into that which is unknowable, as the correct form of development.[quote] So basically, yea, God is there, but we can't know him, so let's do this apart from God? Yup, that's eerily similar to what Satan implied to Adam and Eve... BE LIKE GOD (meaning, you then would not need him) gotcha.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]There is no brotherhood, with the Russell's Witnesses organization, there is selfhood. If you are like the next man, then you and he are brothers. This is the same amongst the witnesses and many other religions. True brotherhood means being able to call the Hindu a brother, and even the animals, without the disdain and feeling of superiority that I can tell is in your heart.[quote] This is getting better and better. You read hearts now. Jehovah said only he can do that. Maybe it's all that meditation and freedom you get into.

You know nothing of JW if you think we don't consider all men our brothers. However, there is a difference in that vs a brotherhood in spirituality. Technically, Jesus and Satan are brothers. But they do not serve the same God, so they are not in a spiritual brotherhood. There is a difference. I don't hate anyone for believing what they wish. But it does not make it true because they follow it. I believe the bible based on a lot of things that I can see, or have read, take place. The Buddha, at best, is a philosopher on a quest for spirituality. And that is the bottom line. Anyone can have a philosophy. But only one book in existence has accurate prophetic word. I choose to ride with that.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]I don't know if either existed. It really does not matter if the Buddha did or did not, what interests me (and him) is that I can benefit from his wisdom, compassion, example and ability to defeat selfishness, greed and suffering in himself and others. He came to save the world NOW, not in the future, and, though I do not agree with all of his teachings, the freedom and compassion with which he acted and taught will only blossom and spread. His teachings are life-changing and part of the teachings that a truly spiritual person should study.[quote] I see. It's cool you feel you can benefit from his wisdom, compassion, etc. But lemme ask you this, do you feel that he was a greater example of these things than Jesus? I mean, seriously, who was more wise as a man than Jesus Christ! Who is more compassionate than the man who touched a leper to heal him? If the Buddha was all these things, than Jesus was eons more so. So why do you scoff at people who strive to be like Jesus?

And again, you're wrong. Jehovah is saving the world now. Jehovah and Jesus have already brought peace on earth. You're just not paying attn.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]So... Jehovah had to demonstrate his existence through wrath, by making people ill and killing them? Would parting the seas not suffice? I guess not.[quote] never once have you mentioned the killing of all firstborns of Jews? The sheer fact of Moses surviving the purge should show there is a Jehovah. And no, he tried to show it plenty of times to Pharoah. Hard heartedness. And again, these people were scoffing at Jehovah, like the people of today are, like you are. They did this when Jehovah told Noah it would flood. Until...... IT RAINED! People will do this until Jehovah cleans up the mess. However, when ever he has brought it on, then the people had to know there was a Jehovah.

I say that to say this. I hope you do explore more, and possibly get to know Jehovah for who he is. No amount of philosophy, meditation, money, prestige, good looks, will do any good when he brings the rain again. And before you say why does he wanna do that, remember that he being creator of the earth, effectively makes him the landlord. He has the right to choose what type of tenants he wants on his property.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]And the Jews were his people, "at the time." I guess when it came time to convert Greeks and Romans, he changed from being the tribal God of the Jews to the God of the known world. Makes sense.[quote] Again, why not ponder for answers that make sense instead of scoffing? First, he chose the line of Abraham, which then became the Jews, So that he can act on behalf of a people, to help differentiate the True God, from false (Example, Egytpian Gods collosal fail) And to have the Messiah born in a strict bloodline, for genealogical purposes. This way, no one can falsely claim to be the Messiah. (Which is why Jews as a whole have stopped looking for theirs, because one would have to fit a strict criteria to be that person, and only Jesus has)

Secondly, Jehovah always had intentions of opening the way to him to everyone. Which is the reason why Jesus said the Good news of the Kingdon is to be preached in the entire inhabited earth, and not to just a section. Just because Jehovah started with the Jews, does not mean that he is just their God. HE IS GOD TO EVERYONE! But the Jews at the time were chosen to show on their behalf they serve the true God. There was false worship, and Jehovah acting on behalf of the jews brought many proselytes into true worship.

The Jews were no longer, as a whole, serving Jehovah acceptably, so he rejected them, and started a new nation after his son died. The birth of Christianity. This was exibited by the fact that Jehovah was working miracles on behalf of the Christians, to show the Jewish nation that he was behind Christianity now, and if they wanted to continue to serve him acceptably, they would have to convert. Some did, most didn't. Either way, it was time for the truth to spread abroad, and for the world to know Jehovah.

[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]And let me get this right. So... if, in exodus, an Egyptian parent did not believe in the Jewish tribal God, if one is to believe the bible, their first born was to die. You truly agree with that, "it had to be done?" If you do, I cannot see how you could ever speak of compassion or love. I could not see how such a person would even know what it is to be moved by another being's suffering.[quote] Jehovah had strict instructions that were to be followed. Whoever did not have the blood posted on their doorpost, would be in a lot of trouble. In order to do that, one would have to believe that Jehovah exists, and be smart enough to follow his instructions. I will never question Jehovah's motives, because all his ways are just. Just because you cannot see it, does not mean he is any less just. So, think what you will, you were going to do so anyways!

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

How would an entire kingdom, with a richer, more ancient history than the Jews, be able, individual, by individual to accept the Jewish God? And did you not know that Jews consider their God as belonging exclusively to them, even today? Even though they consider it the creator, they consider it their God.

I mean, there were ten plagues. Some individuals DID put faith is Jehovah. SOME. But it does not matter how much Jehovah does to show someone, if their heart is hardened against him. I mean seriously, did Pharaoh REALLY need ten plagues before he decided to let the Jews go? That is just assinine and the epitome of hard heartedness. I mean some plagues were not even affecting the Jews. Wherever the jews was, somehow, they went plagueless, while in the same vacinity, the plagues are causing havok just to the Egyptians. How stupid does one need to be to see there is something more powerful out there? And Moses was telling pharoah it was coming EVERY TIME! This is why it's a joke when people say all I need to do is see! or all I need to do is hear! Show me! Like Jesus said, all that one needs is God's word. He did all the showing and had it written for our benefit. So read, Learn, pray and benefit.

I know what the Jews believe, does not make it true.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Malice:1: desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another2: intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse

Oh, and again, what about the children? You cannot defend this evil deed, committed by the God of the Jews, against children, can you? Or do you think slaughtering newborns, for what the country's ruler has done, a just thing?.

Actually, if one thinks about how important the Jews were, for the sake of mankind as a whole, you can see plenty of reason.

I'll name a few. To establish true worship. In a world clouded by lies, true worship is to serve as the light of the world.

The messiah. Jesus needed to be born to redeem the sins of mankind and fulfill his purpose.

Pharoah's hard heartedness. Jehovah reads hearts (You too apparently) So he pretty much knew what level he would have to go to for Pharoah to let his people go. Jehovah never abuses his power, so he did exactly what was called for. And since there is a thing called the resurrection hope, I'm pretty sure Jehovah has those kids in mind for a do-over. Did it suck it had to happen? Of course! So does a lot of things about this life. Good thing is, Jehovah is the one who can fix it. Bank on it.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

It is called proselytizing, i.e., handing out bibles and coercing people into believing that they will only be rewarded, with selfish everlasting existence, if they obey. If the same had been done with Zeus, you would be worshiping him, and I would be trying to tell you that Zeus and his son, Hercules, are not real..

YES! We're finally getting to the meat and potata's! You just don't wish to OBEY! It goes back to the garden! You wanna be you're own God? Do you're own thing! Well Jehovah is allowing you! But if you're your own God, should you not be able to sustain your own life? If it's your right to be your own God, which Jehovah has allowed, it's his as God, to not have to sustain your life apart from him.

So don't obey! Do you're own thing. Just don't complain about the consequences. And don't shoot down those who wish to obey. I surely won't shoot you down for choosing to live apart from Jehovah. It's your right!

And no one obeys Jehovah because of the reward alone. It's the abundance of truth, and his love that attracts people him him and vice versa.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Uhhhhh Catholics, Baptists, and Pentecostals have many more members, in all countries, BTW. The Quakers, and a few other groups, also follow a non-violent philosophy.

Strength in numbers means nothing. It was Jesus and a few others against millions of people who thought they still had God's favor. They were wrong.

Maybe the Quakers do follow non violence. But the reason why Isaiah 2:2-4 does not apply to them should be obvious. They do not worship Jehovah! And that passage makes it one of the stipulations! In fact, if someone mentions the name Jehovah, most people are going to think of which religious group right off the bat? That should tell you who that passage is meant for.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Moreover, the only reason you do not believe in war is because you are instructed in that regard. Or, is it a mere coincidence that the Russell Witnesses governing body is against war and that you are also against it? Too easy. By the way, violence does not have to be physical. The very superiority your organization exudes breeds hatred, division and violence. You just see the fruits of it, while others engage in it..

Ok. What's wrong with being instructed? You follow all this philosophy that you call spirituality, correct? Did you come up with that on your own? Or were you instructed? C'mon son. Too easy.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

And, oftentimes, Russell's Witnesses face inspire the wrath of their local govt, as was the case with a group of African JWs who were persecuted in the 70's, for refusing to buy a government ID, under the guidance of the governing body. When violence came upon them, the governing body, puffed their chests out and moved forward with their decision to tell these people to not buy an ID card.

Ok, you're point? Should they shrink back when faced with adversity, and compromise their standing with Jehovah, over the fear of mortal men? Let's see, disobey the life giver, so that I may temporarily not suffer physical violence or death by a person who bleeds like me? I'm sure those brothers and sisters going through that glady took those stripes for their love of Jehovah.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

If your preaching work is so effective, why have relatively new movements, like the pentecostal movement, recruited in the hundreds of millions, while your organization is still at 7 mill? Oh... I forgot, the narrow (VIP) Russell-gate.

Quality, not quantity, my friend. If you do not have the truth, how good is the quality?

The devil knows What the truth is, and he does a bang up job of keeping the majority of people blinded to it.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Actually, you are not the only group of Christians with a message of non-violence, who preach worldwide and who recruit people. And don't you feel cheap and empty, repeating the same terminology every other JW repeats, as heard by another repeater?

Never said we were the only group, just said we're the most effective. And we have more to preach than non-violence. We preach about the true God. Which is the separation from any other sect in Christendom. Huge.

And no, why feel cheap about speaking the truth? Are their not other Buddhists who would repeat the same things as you? Do you feel cheap Mr. Truth?

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

So, you're saying that a person who sees another kicking a helpless animal on the street and intervenes is not moral, because they do not go to CT Russell's theology New World Translation and Church? Ha

No. What I'm saying is, if you are living apart from Jehovah, the moral giver, than no matter how good a person you may seem to be, you will fall short because you do not have God.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

So everyone who does not believe in Jesus according to the writings of Charles Tayes Russell: Miracle Wheat Salesman, buried under a pyramid, is immoral? If you wish not to be a hypocrite, I suggest you go door to door telling people what you told me: that they are immoral for not believing in Charles T. Russell. I am sure you will not, because it will stop you from reaching your monthly quota of added sheep and also force you to recognize the truly hateful, immoral and haughty nature of your practice.

I'll be only concerned about being hypocritical to Jehovah. Mr. Russel was no better than I. He is a JW just like me. The message does not come from him, it comes from God's word. Jehovah is the one who decides a moral, from immoral life. Deal, or don't.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Your explanations are mere sophistry and the result of a threat to your religious ego, which you sense in my person. I will meditate for your salvation.

Who will you be talking to?

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

No, I never heard of Jesus ruling the Earth, maybe because I am not one of Russell's Witnesses. Is this part of the 1914 prophecy, where, since the Earth did not end, Russell said that Jesuss came to "invisibly rule," from his throne on Earth? Is that like when a loser (Russell's Witnesses) has an invisible sexy, powerful girlfriend (Jesus)?

The Bible makes it quite clear that Jesus return will be invisibly. He, after all is God's Arch Angel. Angels are invisible. It's almost like, Duh.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

And, as LJ recently stated, your organization is fraught with sex abuse scandals. This shows us that you are not transformed by being a Russell's Witness: your members are still sexually deviant, insensitive, voraciously self-centered and dishonest. This makes you the same, if not worst, as the statue-worshipers your cult build's its members self esteem by attacking.)

Just because you are a JW, does not mean you all the sudden became a perfect human being. Jehovah's people make mistakes too. Grave ones. Get off the mat, repent and move forward. We try as people to live morally clean lives and teach other about our God. The truth about him. Can't get the truth about Jehovah anywhere else in the world.

Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

There is no word in the Bible, independent of its writers, even Trillion, a Jew, explained that these are generalizations that you are pointing to. Essentially, anything can be made to fit your prophecies. If you want to prove the bible as being the "word of an omniscient being or force," show me where the bible mentions the name Hitler, CT Russell, Osama Bin Laden, G.W. Bush, etcetera.

That's nonsense. That's just all preconceived notion. Tril, you, L.j. all don't believe in the bible. I mean, the Bible can say in the day it will be sunny, and night dark, and you would all scoff. Forget when it get's even a little deep (prophecy and such) then it's really a wrap! You have to read and understand the bible according to it's author. the same way you read about the Buddha, or history, or whatever. You choose to not do that. But it would help greatly in your understanding if you did. Then you would probably see that Hitler, Russel, Osama, etc would not be necessary.