A telling comment at the end ..."What defines us is how far we rise after falling".

Iran fell 1400 years ago and are a conquered people. They have been conquered for so long that they have forgotten that they are an abjectly subservient people to their Arab conquerors. They can't even pray to their whoremaster allah in their native Farsi. They even do the Arabs' dirty work for them.

They made an attempt to lift themselves up under the Shah, but failed because they did not ditch islam. Even the Shah himself remained muslim. Persia will never rise again as long as islam keeps its hold on the country.

The Persians simply rolled over and accepted islam rather than defend themselves against the Arab invaders. They are not made of the same stuff as Hindus, who endured a horrible slaughter and yet managed to maintain their identity.

So we don't have to define the Iranians. They have defined themselves, and it is a very uncomplimentary and sad definition.

The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.” ~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)

Persians did not surrender to Islam and Muslim Arabs, but suffered heavy losses in their fight against the Arab Muslims. Eventually the Arabs took Persia, but not all of it. Islam was eventually forced on the few remaining Persian people, others who managed to escape are called the Parsis now who live in India.

The Persians fought back for decades, and even during the 400 years of Arab rule they produced many rebellious groups and heroes like Babak e Khoramdin and many more.

With the start of the Samanid dynasty they began reviving the Persian identity, but Islam had been forced for so long it was impossible to get rid of it at that time. So instead they made up a whole new branch of Islam called the Shia Islam to distance themselves from the Arabs.

Then again when the Safavid empire rose, Persia rose once again. Even though the Safavids were fully Shia Muslims, they revived the Persia culture in its fullest. The subsequent dynasties after also contributed greatly to reviving Persian culture, specially the Pahlavi dynasty and its founder Reza Shah.

Persians never gave up and never lost their culture, unlike the rest of the middle east and half of India, which is called Pakistan today.

Go read some history kid and learn to talk without emotions, something that it seems to be impossible for many Indians. Over-emotionality and ignorance will only make you suffer.

Islamic apologetics like to make out islam didn't really persecute Zoroastians and Islam just became the majority religion peacefully, is there any info to contradict this argument?

I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.”Richard Dawkins

Persians did not surrender to Islam and Muslim Arabs, but suffered heavy losses in their fight against the Arab Muslims. Eventually the Arabs took Persia, but not all of it. Islam was eventually forced on the few remaining Persian people, others who managed to escape are called the Parsis now who live in India

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First of all welcome Iranian127.We have very few persians here who can explain us how Iran was conquered by Arab goons who used dirty techniques to win the war. Main line Iranian historians and their western counter parts have done very good job to convince whole world that Iran was peacefully converted to Islam.They all emphasize that as the conversion process was gradual, it has to be volentary and peaceful. Same arguments is used by mail line Hindu and western historans to tell world that Islam was volentarily accepted by hindu masses.

The main argument of traditional iranian and western historians is that Zorastrians were corrupt lot . We now know lot better, In my opinion your ancestors were too good and too moral to fight dirty wars with seasoned mohmedan thugsfrom Arabia. I read some where that Persians let arabs leave country and didnt pursue all the way to Arabia . Thugs came back again and defeated persians..They were no match against bloody techniques of Arab maruders. Arabs slowly poisoned Iran. Arabs and their persian converts harrassed Zorastrian villages and converted most of them by very sly means. Gullible population fell for it. They used to lay siege on zorastrian villages, kidnap women, desecrate zorastrian temples. This went on for few centiries till almost all persian country side was converted to religion of Peace!! Historians call this a peaceful conversion. Brave persians either persihed on battle front or went to India.

The Persians fought back for decades, and even during the 400 years of Arab rule they produced many rebellious groups and heroes like Babak e Khoramdin and many more.

Yes Persians fought for centuries and took few centuries to convert them all. Again Arabs technique of makin converts to worship dead bones of fakirs, pirs, mullahs etc won over many persians. Sufism and newsly minted shiaism did the job and enslaved persian masses. Can anyone believe finally Persians wounded up worshipping that Dwarf butcher of Persia called Ali the son in law of Mohemmed? Among Shia he is next to Allah, a mediator like Christ who tells Allah to do favors.In land of Zoraster a butcher, rapist became more than Allah!! To shiaite Iranians rapist of their own great great moms is god incarnate!! No one can now even nmake fun of that dwarf, ugly Ali and his ileegitimate 12 descendents.

With the start of the Samanid dynasty they began reviving the Persian identity, but Islam had been forced for so long it was impossible to get rid of it at that time. So instead they made up a whole new branch of Islam called the Shia Islam to distance themselves from the Arabs.

You are right. But in my opinion the invention of shiaite home made philosophy was spiritual suicide. It further entrapped soul of a civilized nation . It was like choosing between living in a cave with man eating tiger or living with poisonous cobra.

Then again when the Safavid empire rose, Persia rose once again. Even though the Safavids were fully Shia Muslims, they revived the Persia culture in its fullest. The subsequent dynasties after also contributed greatly to reviving Persian culture, specially the Pahlavi dynasty and its founder Reza Shah.

Here again persian intellectuals were deceived by hard core shia clergy and their rural and urban religious followers. Iranian intelligensia cant establish true secular democracy. This is what happens to people who follow brutal arabic desert religion whether its shia-shit or sunny dung or sugar coated slow poison better known as sufi-darvish kind of Islam.

Persians never gave up and never lost their culture, unlike the rest of the middle east and half of India, which is called Pakistan today.

yes Persian language and culture survived unlike Turkey and Egypt but so did Islam of very brutal variety started by deceiving, sly, hypocritical, mystical shais who belioved in coming of next Mehdi. It is now practiced by majority shias of Iran.. Spiritual heritage and resources were erased from persian conceousness for ever.Iranians have forgotten religious teaching of their ancient civilization.Persians tried hard to combat brutal Islam by throwing a peceful world religion like Bahaism. Religion was severly persecuted and followers were exiled. Bahaism itself is illegal and illegitimate in Iran. Ofcourse Bahais also believe in Mo as a prophet and try best to include preaching of Mo in their religion. The whole persian spiritual secne is pathetic and disgusting. Modern Iran's soul is entrapped for ever. Thsi is what a desert religion founded by a maruder and rapist had done to once civilized, noble and pecful people who respected all religions, banned slavery and invented many things.

Go read some history kid and learn to talk without emotions, something that it seems to be impossible for many Indians. Over-emotionality and ignorance will only make you suffer.

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You tell us how Iran was enslaved by Arabs during first few centuries.How they deeply penetrated psyche of common Iranian. How a great civilization was destroyed by Arabs? Now a days many Iranians are very defensive when it comes to totally destroying shia islam. Founder of this site is Iranian and most of the things I explained comes from his writings.

My heart goes out for all Iranians.inspite of being muslims they are very nice , intelligent and civilized people.I would like to see a day when Iran destroys Islam as Russians destroyed communism.

pert wrote:Islamic apologetics like to make out islam didn't really persecute Zoroastians and Islam just became the majority religion peacefully, is there any info to contradict this argument?

Almost all main line Iranian and Western historians repeat this lie of peaceful conversions in Iran after Islamic conquests by Arabs after 650 C.E. However things got worst after Nadirshah and Quajar dynasty which preceded Pahlvis.

Numerous zorastrian sources has exposed the myth of peaceful conversions.

According to one Humanist of the Old Forum,Iranians even after 1979 Islamic revolution still do not procreate a lot and that supposedly is a sign of non-religiosity.What is one's take on this argument?

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

Persians never gave up and never lost their culture, unlike the rest of the middle east and half of India, which is called Pakistan today.

It is not half,it is one fourth of India.

Well one cannot find much fault with Persians and compare them to Hindus.Arnold Toynbee estimated that in the initial stages both Roman Empire and Indian sub-continent had same population levels of 40 million.But by the time the remaining Persian Zoroastrians known as Parsis sought refuge in India,the local king replied that his kingdom is like a glass full of milk with no more capacity to accomodate the new arrivals.Parsis mixed sugar in the milk and convinced the king that we will mix with you like sugar and there still is some capacity to accomodate us..

That shows that just before Islamic invasion,fertile India was teeming with a huge population.So Islam had difficulty in firmly establishing itself due to presence of huge population of Hindus.Iranian plateau on the other hand , just like the rest of middle east and North Africa was sparsely populated,hence they were able to totally annihilate the previous cultures within a short span of time.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

Looks like very few participants on this forum are interested in how spiritually dumb ,unsophisticated, very brutal Arabs of 6th century converted a great civilization to Islam.I like to know the muslim view point if they can prove that it was love fest between civilized Iranians and dirty, half human, camel dung washed Arabs from Arabian peninsula.

Persians were at disadvantage as they suffered relentless attacks from a territory which was very close just across the strait of Hormuz.They can land in Persia perhaps in less than a day.

Urban Persians were convertedcto Islam in no time where as rural persians fought for centuries.Here pressure was relentless. Zorastrian enclaves suffered lots of day and nite harrasement by newly converted Persian muslims. They killed their dogs(zorastrians revere dogs) and pollute place of worship. Ultimately most of Zorastrians migrated to ghettos of Yazd and Kerman. These were the people who migrated to India and Parsis called them Iranis.

India had big population and lots of fertile land.This was very enticing to foreign muslim maruders who came with horse and sword only. Indians paid lots of Zizia .Here Mongol and Turk rulers were more intersted in tax collection than in mandatory conversions. Where as In Persia they had lot less agricultural land. Many lived shepherdic life and cant bear zizia tax.. Discriminatory tax was trump card of Islam. Persians had to face very fanatic Arab maruders who were more interested in total conversion. Ofcourse Persia also offered lots of fabled, ancinet riches as well as fair skinned persian women. To dark skin arab this was number one attraction.

Is this why dogs are hated so much in in Dar Al Islam, because Islam supplanted Zoroastrianism?

I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.”Richard Dawkins

Ofcourse Persia also offered lots of fabled, ancinet riches as well as fair skinned persian women.

Yes my friend who lived there and whose father was a doctor and a Marathi Brahmin and whose mother was a Tamil Brahmin said that their cheeks appear beautiful in pink.Perhaps he was not aware of the havoc Islam caused in the lands it conquered/perhaps he was just like any other teenager whose thoughts are preoccupied by beauty rather than anything else or perhaps it is a combination of both the reasons.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

pert wrote:Is this why dogs are hated so much in in Dar Al Islam, because Islam supplanted Zoroastrianism?

According to ahadith and islamic traditions dog is considred impure and polluting. Zorastrian reverence for dog could be secondary reason.

Well when Chanakya of the old forum is asked as to why eating dog or horse meat is not culturally acceptable in the West,she said that the meat of a dog, being a canine would be a lot polluting and hazardous for health.So Islamic scholars of those days were justified to a certain extent in keeping their folks away from the dog.That is because in those days there were no handwashes or face washes or soaps available in abundance.

Turmeric,an antiseptic used as a soap in the sub-continent might not have been available in the Arabian desert.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

idesigner wrote:Urban Persians were convertedcto Islam in no time where as rural persians fought for centuries.Here pressure was relentless. Zoroastrian enclaves suffered lots of day and nite harrasment by newly converted Persian muslims.

Ditto might not be the case with spread of Hinduism and Christianity but there are certain similiarities.For example,Christians first targeted the urban population,there existed contempt for pagans or the rural people(pagans=rural folk) and they were converted forcibly at a later date.Hindusim of the Puranic age or the age of cities abhorred animal sacrifice but rural areas were gradually supposed to be brought into its fold,hence animal sacrifice by animists and other rural populations were allowed for time being.

In India too,muslims first captured cities from where they radiated their religion to neighboring rural areas.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

idesigner wrote:Urban Persians were convertedcto Islam in no time where as rural persians fought for centuries.Here pressure was relentless. Zoroastrian enclaves suffered lots of day and nite harrasment by newly converted Persian muslims.

Ditto might not be the case with spread of Hinduism and Christianity but there are certain similiarities.For example,Christians first targeted the urban population,there existed contempt for pagans or the rural people(pagans=rural folk) and they were converted forcibly at a later date.Hindusim of the Puranic age or the age of cities abhorred animal sacrifice but rural areas were gradually supposed to be brought into its fold,hence animal sacrifice by animists and other rural populations were allowed for time being.

In India too,muslims first captured cities from where they radiated their religion to neighboring rural areas.

In case of Hinduism, numerous lowly castes were brought into its fold gradually. Ancient Aryans of India used to sacrifice lots of animals in their Yagnas.Even Manu smruti advocated eating cow meat if cow was ritually sacrificed. Jainism and Budhhism put a stop to it. In 3rd and 4th C.E. ( Gupta period) to out smart budhhist, Brahmins also stopped sacrifinng cows as well as eating cows. Hinduism couldnt assimilate castes who were eating dead cows and following certain professions which were considered taboo. Read work by Ambedkar.

Ofcourse Persia also offered lots of fabled, ancinet riches as well as fair skinned persian women.

Is that also the reason why in North America they ask the Asian,Latino and African converts to Christianity to go to their own churches rather than visiting churches frequented by white girls?

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

In case of Hinduism, numerous lowly castes were brought into its fold gradually. Ancient Aryans of India used to sacrifice lots of animals in their Yagnas.Even Manu smruti advocated eating cow meat if cow was ritually sacrificed. Jainism and Budhhism put a stop to it.

I hereby declare that all these animal and human sacrifice verses of Vedas are due to corruption in the age of Kali Yug.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.

Many Hidtava and Aryasamjis, harekrishna idiots etc. believe that there were no animal sacrifices mentioned in Vedas.

They all believe that sacrifice was symbolical. No animal was killed. Rama and Dasarath went hunting but actually didnt kill anything or didnt eat meat.Like Moghul of this forum they interprete each and every word of Rigved in their own way.

Only Swami Vivekanand (among reformists) admitted animal sacrifices of bygone ages. He told people that modern day hindus should not eat meat beacuse the belief had changed.

Many Hidtava and Aryasamjis, harekrishna idiots etc. believe that there were no animal sacrifices mentioned in Vedas.

They all believe that sacrifice was symbolical. No animal was killed.

Well one does not have to look that far to know that sacrifices were prevalent.Suttee is a human sacrifice that supposedly absolves from sins,both the ancestors and descendants of widow,on both on maternal and bridegroom sides for seven generations.It cannot come into existence without the sanction for human sacrifice in the Vedas.It is simply horrible to imagine someone being burnt to death.But then in modern warfares,hundreds of thousands if not millions are being immolated to death.Suttee could at best have cost a few thousand lives throughout history.

Jews got over human sacrifice and initiated animal sacrifice for sin expiation.Since Josephus Flavius , famous Jewish historian of Roman times said that their elite are actually descendants of an Indian philosophical sect called Kalani,this concept of sin expiation by sacrifice would have been borrowed from Hindus.Or may be just as Jesus himself is a sin expiation sacrifice,human sacrifice as a practice is common amongst all ancient peoples.

While animal sacrifices existed for sin expiation,animal as well as human sacrifices might also have existed for thanksgiving.Story of Jephtah is a thanksgiving sacrifice.

If special status could be granted to many states in India based on backwardness, then it can also be granted to remnant A. P which was deliberately rendered backward due to malicious policy of divide and rule.After division,percapita income of Telangana is Rs 20,000 /-more than that of remnant A.P.