Welcome to the Piano World Piano ForumsOver 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

My opinion is rather limited as I'm a beginner, and had only listened to Pianotec before buying this. I've also been out of town and only installed it yesterday, on Intel Duo old macbook pro, ssd, and 4g ram. I had no problems at all with the installation. One minor hiccup that AZ Astro helped with earlier. Haven't had time to change presets at all. My impression is one where agree with what Bryanstern said earlier: "I love the sound. Both rich and and focused." To me, a nice and even/uncolored overall presentation. I like it and was glad I was patient.

How does the sound compare to the other True Keys pianos? I found I really didn't like the German and favoured the Italian over the others. As I think someone mentioned here there is something similar about all 3 that I wasn't quite so keen on. I would hope that Ravenscroft sounds different enough.

At the moment I much prefer Vintage D over those 3 original True Keys pianos so not sure if I'd want this one.

RE: the "mix" mic perspective - I guess that idea could be taken further, allowing the user to create their own "mix", and allow the samples to be saved to disk as a custom perspective. Perhaps less important now that SSDs are becoming so cost effective though.

Will we finally be able to play Dodge the Dodo and the like on a virtual piano !?!?

Does anyone care to post an example of the muted notes feature? I would be really interested :-)

On their website I find little more than

"Muted Strikes are unique to the Ravenscroft 275 VI and are multi-velocity samples of each key, but with the strings muted for an interesting effect."

Thomas

I'm not able to record a demo at the moment, but the "Muted Notes" is pretty much exactly what you'd expect. You assign it to a midi CC (like modulation wheel) and then it triggers samples with that thumpy stacatto sound when you mute the strings and then hit them - similar to that "Doge the Dodo" video you posted.

Probably not something I'll use very often, but nice to have nonetheless

That sounds great. Thanks for the reply! If it's well done, I could imagine ordering it just for this feature. Thomas

I like it. A lot. This is definitely my new go-to piano, and it is my favorite sampled piano I've tried so far (I've tried most of them - except for Ivory).

The playability is excellent. VI Labs does a great job in this area IMO. The piano feels very fast, responsive, and easy to control. For me, it's a joy to play on, and it feels like I'm playing on a very expensive piano, which is basically the point right?

The scale is very even from top to bottom. No notes stand out to me as "problem notes". The piano has a unique and distinct tone which seems pretty versatile. It's fantastic for jazz. The bass is solid - perhaps not quite as "big" sounding as you'd expect on a 9 footer - but it sounds and plays great. The midrange obviously isn't as warm or lush as a lot of pianos and instead opts for more clarity and a little more bite to it. I like it, but YYMV. If you want a warm mellow sounding piano, you should do some more research. The treble is very clear and pure, but not too bright (a small complaint I have with the "Italian").

I don't know what VI labs changed in their recording/sampling process, but the samples on the Ravenscroft just sound more clean and transparent compared to their previous offerings. Maybe they used better mics or something. Whatever the case, this improves things top to bottom as there's less layers of digital artificiality and it sounds more like you're "there".

Compared to the other True Keys pianos, the "American" is obviously a warmer and mellower piano (although bit too mellow at ppp volumes IMO). I noticed some of the low bass notes on the "American" were a bit twangy, but the Ravenscroft doesn't have that problem. The bass is very even and smooth. There were also just a few notes in the upper mids of the "American" that had a hint of some kind of metallic resonance showing up in samples. I haven't noticed any problems in the Ravenscroft so far.

The "Italian" Fazioli shares some some of the same clarity and purity of the Ravenscroft, but it takes it slightly too far at times sounding a tad thin in some of the upper registers at stock settings. I get the feeling when playing the "Italian" that is has harder hammers or something, as I can hear more "attack" noise coming from it when playing. On some registers of the "Italian" I get the feeling that it's slightly thin sounding and lacking a little body.

The piano seems to have a lot of natural sympathetic resonance and harmonics. I wonder if this is correlated with the titanium elements of its build. I often pause and listen to the resonances, similar to how I pause on a real piano to listen to them - so that's a good sign. If you don't like the harmonics/resonance you can dial them down (literally).

The dynamic range is solid. The piano is surprisingly delicate at the quiet volumes. The samples don't just get softer - you also get a clear shift in the timbre as you decrease the velocity. The ppp notes sound very delicate with good clarity to them, coming out clear and distinct. This is nice, because I'm used to a lot of pianos just turning into an overly warm, muffled, muddy mess when you play at the very quiet volumes. True Keys "American" and "German" do this to an extent, getting a little muffled and blurry at low velocities, but that's not the case with this piano. Instead of getting muffled or muddy it takes on a lovely delicate timbre. Again, it just sounds and feels expensive to me.

I enjoy the una corda pedal on the Ravenscroft - it's effective in use, and it transitions in an out smoothly and naturally. It gives a nice shift in the timbre. I agree with what Dire Tonic said earlier about the una corda on the Galaxy Vintage D sounding a bit detached from the normal samples and sounding like it's coming from a different space in the soundstage, making it a bit akward to use. On True Keys "American" it's hard for me to discern if the una corda pedal is ON or OFF since there's not much shift in the timbre. True Keys "Italian" has a nice una corda on it though, and this Ravenscroft does as well. Definitely worth loading and using the una corda samples if you have a spare pedal to set up as a soft/una corda pedal (and if you don't, set one up already!)

I find the the "close" mic position to easily be the best sounding position. I like using it with the "close" mic mixed with a bit of either the "side" or "room" mics to add just a little bit of ambience. "Close" just by itself sounds great as well though. Using the other mics positions WITHOUT the "close" mic position in-play sometimes sounds a bit too distant and midrangey (and perhaps with too much glare/reflections going on).

The release samples sound very nice, and I'm not too afraid to play staccato on it. IMO, VI Labs has been pushing the bar forward in this particular area (release samples), and I think it's one of the reasons their pianos turn out to be nicely playable.

I played around with "Muted Strikes" (assigned it to the mod wheel). It's pretty much what you'd expect, and gives you that thumpy staccato sound when you mute the strings and then hit them. There are multiple velocity layers here as well, and lifting the dampers has an effect on the resonance. Not something I'll use all that much to be honest, but it's certainly appreciated to have it included in the package.

"Silent Strike" is..."the faint sound heard when a key is pressed so slowly as it doesn’t 'play' but instead causes a small thump of the jack escapement, felt damper lifting from the strings, or a combination of those mechanical sounds." I've played around with it some, but it's very subtle. It's just a very soft mechanical noise from the escapement jack when you silently press the key. I guess it adds to the realism a bit though.

"Timbre Shift" is another new feature which "works by shifting the root pitch of the samples up or down to create a darker or brighter tone.". It affects the sound in a pretty extreme way. If you turn it all the way up it basically turns the piano into a clavinet/harpsichord. If you want the more subtle darkening or brightening, that's the "Tone" knob.

Anyways, those are some of my impressions so far. I'm very happy with the piano overall, and I love playing on it. I think VI Labs did an awesome job with the piano (congrats guys!), and I think they did raise the bar in some areas.

I like it. A lot. This is definitely my new go-to piano, and it is my favorite sampled piano I've tried so far (I've tried most of them - except for Ivory).

Anyways, those are some of my impressions so far. I'm very happy with the piano overall, and I love playing on it. I think VI Labs did an awesome job with the piano (congrats guys!), and I think they did raise the bar in some areas.

Thank you for your detailed review. Now that I have been playing the Ravenscroft Piano for (just!) a day I am in agreement. I am really warming up to the sound of this piano. There is a clarity and distinctiveness to the playing up and down the keyboard. It is very responsive and I have no sense of latency whatsoever. The dynamics are excellent, the best that I have encountered.

I have plopped down $50, $100, $200 for sampled pianos before and have been disappointed. I don't feel that way at all at this point.

I loaded up the 64-bit version of Cantabile Lite, switched back to ASIO4ALL, and I can play this piano with no discernible latency, and it sounds great and responds beautifully. This allows me to go back to using just the Surface Pro with USB and audio cables, and nothing else. So now I will be able to use it live!

I don't understand why when using UVI as a standalone device I have so much in the way of ASIO problems, as well as residual latency, but when I open the VST version of UVI in Cantabile Lite, it all works so much better, and can use ASIO4ALL with no warbling etc. There's definitely a bit of a mismatch between UVI and ASIO (at least on Windows). On a side note, I really like Cantabile. It's a very well organized interface, and does not suffer from DAW overkill, where you are essentially plugging the VST into a recording track.

At last!

When I am playing Ivory II, I use its built-in player which is a modified version of Cantabile.

I am wondering if I can use the Ivory II Cantabile to load and then play Ravenscroft. The Ivory II Cantabile software looks to me like Cantabile Lite on-screen.

[Edit: This turned out to be easy. You actually load UVI Workstation from Cantabile...]

I guess I'm interested in the steps it took you to "install" Ravenscroft inside Cantabile Lite.

Any guidance would be appreciated. ! Thx.

On a side note, the UVI Workstation seems to be working very well for me.

Thanks for taking the time to write that, chicolom. I feel pretty much the same way (and you've saved me a lot of typing ). I'd like to draw attention to what you said about the release samples; I think they're about the best that I've heard on any piano emulation.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

AZ Astro, you need to go to your 64 bit VST folder (often in the Steinberg folder in Program Files) and look for the UVI plug-in there.

As a point of curiosity, I am wondering why some VSTs are the actual software piano product (as in Ivory and Pianoteq) and some VSTs are the Shell that the software piano product runs inside, as in Ravenscroft (i.e. why is there not a Ravenscroft275.dll).

As a point of curiosity, I am wondering why some VSTs are the actual software piano product (as in Ivory and Pianoteq) and some VSTs are the Shell that the software piano product runs inside, as in Ravenscroft (i.e. why is there not a Ravenscroft275.dll).

Ravenscroft isn't a vsti and doesn't conform to vst protocol (I've really no idea what that is!!), it exists only as a single file with the .ufs extension. So it has to run inside a 'container' - in this case UVI, which is a vsti. As you say, Ivory and Pianoteq have done the donkeywork which enables them to run as fully fledged vstis.

AZ Astro, you need to go to your 64 bit VST folder (often in the Steinberg folder in Program Files) and look for the UVI plug-in there.

As a point of curiosity, I am wondering why some VSTs are the actual software piano product (as in Ivory and Pianoteq) and some VSTs are the Shell that the software piano product runs inside, as in Ravenscroft (i.e. why is there not a Ravenscroft275.dll).

{GUESSING}It is probably tied up to the "copy protection" nonsense.This way they only have to unlock it in one place.Conversely they only have to build and actuate one "lock".

As a point of curiosity, I am wondering why some VSTs are the actual software piano product (as in Ivory and Pianoteq) and some VSTs are the Shell that the software piano product runs inside, as in Ravenscroft (i.e. why is there not a Ravenscroft275.dll).

Ravenscroft isn't a vst and doesn't conform to vst protocol (I've really no idea what that is!!), it exists only as a single file with the .ufs extension.

UVI is the vst which will run inside DAWs and hosts.

Let me re-word my question ...

I am wondering why the Ravenscroft275 does not have an accompanying VST like some other software piano products, namely Ivory. I am curious as to why they might not provide one since it seems much more convenient to utilize it within a DAW.

As a point of curiosity, I am wondering why some VSTs are the actual software piano product (as in Ivory and Pianoteq) and some VSTs are the Shell that the software piano product runs inside, as in Ravenscroft (i.e. why is there not a Ravenscroft275.dll).

Ravenscroft isn't a vst and doesn't conform to vst protocol (I've really no idea what that is!!), it exists only as a single file with the .ufs extension.

UVI is the vst which will run inside DAWs and hosts.

Let me re-word my question ...

I am wondering why the Ravenscroft275 does not have an accompanying VST like some other software piano products, namely Ivory. I am curious as to why they might not provide one since it seems much more convenient to utilize it within a DAW.

As a point of curiosity, I am wondering why some VSTs are the actual software piano product (as in Ivory and Pianoteq) and some VSTs are the Shell that the software piano product runs inside, as in Ravenscroft (i.e. why is there not a Ravenscroft275.dll).

Ravenscroft isn't a vst and doesn't conform to vst protocol (I've really no idea what that is!!), it exists only as a single file with the .ufs extension.

UVI is the vst which will run inside DAWs and hosts.

Let me re-word my question ...

I am wondering why the Ravenscroft275 does not have an accompanying VST like some other software piano products, namely Ivory. I am curious as to why they might not provide one since it seems much more convenient to utilize it within a DAW.

This was part of my confusion. But I think I've got it now. A little bit anyway!

I am going to present that question to VILabs directly and see what their response is.

Hey all, I wanted to jump in here again and explain a bit more about the UVI Workstation and questions about VST plug-ins, etc. Yes the Ravenscroft 275 and our True Keys Pianos are not VST instruments themselves--they are what are referred to as sample libraries and work within an engine, in this case UVI Workstation, which is the "player" and supports all plug-in formats such as VST, AU, AAX, etc. The software used to design the Ravenscroft library is called MachFive which is marketed by MOTU. MachFive is a full feature software sampler and is also available as a standalone application or any plug-in format. Another popular software sampler is Kontakt by Native Instruments, and they have their player known as Kontakt Player that hosts a huge variety of NI instruments as well as third party libraries. Alicia's Keys and the Scarbee line of libraries are popular examples of "Kontakt Powered" instruments that run all in one player, the free Kontakt Player. There's also a huge selection of UVI instruments and third party libraries that are hosted within the free UVI Workstation.

There are of course benefits to developing a proprietary sampling engine for one specific product or line of products from one company such as any specific need can be addressed from the ground up. But as I eluded to in a previous post, this is an expensive and rather risky endeavor for many instrument developers as the cost of R&D is very high, and there's always the risk of compatibility issues, crashes, etc. that can result unless the engine is really up to snuff. Also with proprietary engines, an end user has to install a new (and sometimes unknown) piece of software for each instrument, from each company, and so on. The benefits of using an existing engine that allows third party developer content such as NI Kontakt or MachFive is that you get a solid engine (player) that only needs to be installed once, and it will support a plethora of instruments available. This makes it easier for the end user as they install one player and then can add additional libraries, and it's easier in many ways for the developers as they can use a tried and true engine that many end users may already have. And yes, this also aids in copy protection as each library developer can rely on the company that makes the engine to handle that process instead of having a variety of copy protection methods which some work great and others not so much.

So to recap, you can install UVI Workstation one time to use the Ravenscroft. Then you could add our True Keys collections or any other instrument made for UVI Workstation and only have to download/extract the library without having to install any software again. This applies to Kontakt Player as well and the huge line-up of all their instruments.

Thank you Lance, for providing this information. If I may, I'd like to ask you about something else. How does the Ravenscroft compare to other software pianos you've worked on, like the ones from Acoustic Samples, the Kawai Ex Pro, and Academic Grand? I'm assuming the Ravenscroft is superior to the other two, but what makes it superior?

Would appreciate your input on this, as I'm looking for good software pianos, and the Acoustic Samples appealed to me. I'm wondering if I would be sacrificing quality for a lower price, by getting the older Acoustic Samples pianos, rather than the Ravenscroft.

It would seem to be in VILabs best interest to allow it to run in a variety of environments. Why not make it a VST instrument so it will run on a variety of DAWS ?

Is it cost ? Sales Strategy ?

By using UVI Workstation, VI Labs saves money and improves on quality control and compatibility. I am viewing UVI Workstation as the VST Instrument, and UVI Workstation can host many different instruments, including the Ravenscroft.