There is Spell Slinger out there already by Fantasy Flight (which is probably why no one else is likely to publish something along these lines), but it's not the sort of thing I was looking for -- I wanted a fantasy game that was Westerns (particularly Spaghetti Westerns), what Dark Sun was to post appocalyptic settings. I was after intersting takes on the standard fantasy races and something that would let me make use of the vast array of D20 fantasy stuff I own. Spell Slinger was a bit too specific to its own magic for me (which almost everyone has).

So if you;ve not heard of Spell Slinger I'd check it out, but mind my reservations. If you like the sound of what I suggested, then maybe we can try and twist Joesph's arm into letting me design it .

As a side note, if you fancy a new twist on the Western genre (although admittedly, not fantasy), check out Etherscope - whilst it is essentially a Victoriana/cyberpunk game, there are places in the world where the Wild West themes have been written in (we call it the Savage South ). I mean, surely Wild West with cyberware and cthulu-esque demons can't be bad, can it .

I've heard of Spellslinger and Richard Moore's Far West, but they both tried too hard to adapt every piece of Tolkien-style fantasy into a cowboy setting. Elves as natives and dragons as frontier tycoons? Naaah...

You can't graft the American West to Middle Earth and expect much from it. There's a reason good ol' JRR didn't turn dwarves into vikings and elves into the French; they have their own unique cultures and I think it would be more alluring to see an elven culture interacting with aspects of the mythological Wild West rather than being cookie-cut into a part of it.

We should all keep this philosophy in mind when we create a setting, especially one that includes real world cultures, regardless of how old or young they are.

Back in the early '80s a group of my AD&D PCs found their way into a Boot Hill module while exploring... I think S4. My characters where set upon as depraved lunatics. Six shooters wreck havic with magic armor.

Back in the early '80s TSR published several role-playing games other than D&D and AD&D.

Boot Hill - A cowboy role-playing game where you could be a gun slinger and several other classes.

Gamma World - America many decades after WWIII.

Star Frontiers - A SciFi space role-playing game.

Top Secret - A modern, James Bond type role-playing game.

I'm sure there's one or two more I've forgotten about.

I've played them all and owned Gamma World. They were all fun.

The 1st edition AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide gave some guidelines on how to have AD&D PCs "cross-over" to Gamma World or Boot Hill. My pal got Boot Hill for Christmas and a Boot Hill module and wanted to try it. We did, I just wished we wouldn't have cut our teeth on it with my AD&D PCs.

Me and a friend were working on a D20 version of speghetti western at one point where we tried to model the characters after D&D 3.5, having lots of speghetti western feats like quick draw, trick shot, blind shot etc and using a lot of D&D skills with new ones like gambling, handgun, rifles, etc... We'd watch movies like Tombstone or Silverado and then try to apply everything that happened in the movie to skills and feats.

We also were creating "spell caster" classes like an indian shaman to go with standard classes like cowboy, gambler, thief, bounty hunter, and outlaw. It was a fun one to work on, but never got too far. I'd really like to finish that project someday

It was suggested by a friend years back that I try and make a fantasy-western. I went at it with the intent of blending current D&D fantasy elements with the deep mythology of the Wild West. I tried to mold it into a realistic, believable scenario (believable for a fantasy setting, anyways) where it wasn't just a gimmicky, quirky setting where Elves were Indians and Dwarves were Prospectors, and they completely adopted the personas of their respective stereotype.

What I wanted was more of the Firefly series or Goodman's own Broncosaurus Rex game line: societies that have, by reason of living in frontier-like conditions, developed into a Western-stylized culture, with all the superstition, lawlessness, desperation and ruthlessness therein.

To add to the list:Gangbusters (prohibition-era game) & Indiana Jones.

Don't forget the least supported TSR rpg of all time: Metamorphosis Alpha. Also, didn't TSR produce the first edition of the Empire of the Petal Throne rpg? TSR was banging 'em out in the 70's and early 80's.

I loved Gamma World and Top Secret. My grade school friends and I played those games relentlessly. Never tried Boot Hill, but I have to admit I love the idea of a spaghetti-western RPG.

_________________Contributor to DCC #49: The Palace in the Wastes.
Contributor to the upcoming The Adventure Continues.
Author of an upcoming DCC.

Back in the early '80s TSR published several role-playing games other than D&D and AD&D.

Boot Hill - A cowboy role-playing game where you could be a gun slinger and several other classes.

Gamma World - America many decades after WWIII.

Star Frontiers - A SciFi space role-playing game.

Top Secret - A modern, James Bond type role-playing game.

I'm sure there's one or two more I've forgotten about.

I've played them all and owned Gamma World. They were all fun.

The 1st edition AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide gave some guidelines on how to have AD&D PCs "cross-over" to Gamma World or Boot Hill. My pal got Boot Hill for Christmas and a Boot Hill module and wanted to try it. We did, I just wished we wouldn't have cut our teeth on it with my AD&D PCs.

[shameless plug]Most of those games have discussion areas on my OD&D boards, if anyone has interest in them. (See my signature.)[/shameless plug]

Seriously, I agree with MWallace's assement of blending Boot Hill with Middle-earth. It just doesn't work well. What I'd be more interested in seeing would be a blend of Boot Hill with something more subtle, perhaps Cthulhu or maybe some of the weird west stories of Robert E. Howard.

When you fill up the world with elves and dwarves it loses it's "reality" but if you fill it up with dark, cold, shadows and creepy things in the dark -- now that can be a lot of fun!

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own." -- Gary Gygax"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson

Don't forget the least supported TSR rpg of all time: Metamorphosis Alpha. Also, didn't TSR produce the first edition of the Empire of the Petal Throne rpg? TSR was banging 'em out in the 70's and early 80's.

I never heard of these games. What were they about?

_________________"When creating your character,choose an ethical system that can justify nearly any fit of temper, greed, cowardice, or vindictiveness, for example, Chaotic Violent..."

Don't forget the least supported TSR rpg of all time: Metamorphosis Alpha. Also, didn't TSR produce the first edition of the Empire of the Petal Throne rpg? TSR was banging 'em out in the 70's and early 80's.

I never heard of these games. What were they about?

These are both excellent games, if you like a blend of fantasy and science fiction.

METAMORPHOSIS ALPHA - MA was the first scifi-based RPG that I ever played, mixing ray guns with mutants with swords. Lots of fun and old-school character death. Characters live on a giant world-sized generation ship to the stars, but something bad happened and the ship has lost its way. Some characters and animals have mutated into new things, and some common things have become very deadly. Each level is a world, so there are lots of opportunities to have variation. MA was first done in 1976, later was released as part of TSR's "Amazing Engine" game line, 3E was a 25th Anniversary edition re-done by James (Gamma World) Ward, 4E was a huge expansion of 3E, and a new 5E is being planned based on D&D4E. The 1976 MA rulebook was a stand-alone book of around 48 pages.

EMPIRE OF THE PETAL THRONE - This was released in 1975 with rules which were very similar to D&D. It's basically a fantasy world, but there are hints of a "lost civilization" theme behind the scenes and it combines fantasy with scifi. EPT was designed by a professor of linguistics (much like Tolkien) and the world is rich in history and ambaince. I find that there is almost too much strangeness for my likiing, but many players are fanatic about the world. This has seen several reprints and was totally revised by Guardians of Order before the collapse. There are several novels written by the EPT author (M.A.R. Barker) and a lot of information about the language, etc. The 1975 EPT was a boxed set, with rulebook and a couple of maps.

Both games got decent support in Dragon magazine, back in the day. If you have questions about either, I'll be happy to give more details.

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own." -- Gary Gygax"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own." -- Gary Gygax"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson

Rick Krebs (Gangbusters) has a blog about the game and occasionally posts on my OD&D board. He's a nice guy and loves to talk about the game! (My board is the only one that I know of that actually discusses Gangbusters.)

Indiana Jones was a neat concept, but I disliked the design. It was set up where you had to play characters from the movies and there were no actual character generation rules. (In one scene maybe Indy and his dad had roles, another scene might be Indy and Marian. You had to decide who played which character each scene.) I think it was kind of fun but very limiting as it never really led to a long-term campaign.

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own." -- Gary Gygax"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson

You seem well versed in your RPG history! I've been enjoying your postings on this site & hope you stay about.

Well, I like it here but sometimes things get stale and I get bored when no one replies. (I think I posted something in the Judges Guild section months ago and not a nibble, for example.)

I'm versed on my RPG history mostly because I started playing so long ago and own most of these games. My den is full of this stuff, most of which I bought new when it was first published. Who knew it would become collectable.

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own." -- Gary Gygax"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson

Metamorphosis Alpha sounds cool. Can't believe I never heard of it till now. Now that I think about it wasn't there some old D&D adventure with a crashed spaceship? Was this a crossover module to M.A.? It was a long time ago so all I really remember was my cousin being super excited that you could find things like scuba gear in a D&D adventure.

_________________"When creating your character,choose an ethical system that can justify nearly any fit of temper, greed, cowardice, or vindictiveness, for example, Chaotic Violent..."

You're thinking of S3--Expedition to the Barrier Peaks which was written by Gary Gygax. I think he did take some inspiration from Metamorphosis Alpha. As I recall M.A. was written and GMed by Jim Ward. I've heard tales concerning Gygax's famous magic-user running for his life aboard that vessel.

That's all I got in my shutting-down brain. Someone more conscious than I will have to fill in the details

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