Its hard to get away from guys in your neighborhood. Your parents won't move and there are always a few of them who throw rocks at cars and you get in trouble because you are around them when it happens.

Speaking of litmus test I'm wondering if the liberal media will ever ask McCain what he's learned from being knee deep in the Keating 5 scandal and how it compares to the current S&L scandal. It is topical I would think.

Ain't gonna work this time fellas. This election is about how the U.S. has gotten itself into one of the worst economic AND foreign policy position since the WWII/Great Depression era. So, you all can try the ol' Willy Horton/flag burning/swift boating side shows but the American people clearly are not buying it this time around.

"What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away"----Saul Alinsky

So Mr. Kurtz got into the hidden dusty files and this essay is supposed to tell us the big shocking news that he discovered. What did he find out, Obama and Ayres both worked to improve urban failing schools!!!!! I hope that the readers of the WSJ are shocked.

garage mahal said..."Speaking of litmus test I'm wondering if the liberal media will ever ask McCain what he's learned from being knee deep in the Keating 5 scandal and how it compares to the current S&L scandal. It is topical I would think."

That would be a good question for the debate, actually - generalized enough that Obama could answer too. Something like "what was, in hindsight, your greatest error in judgment, and what did you learn or take away from it?"

No, we can't have that friend! We need High School graduates who can do math and write well enough and who have a smattering of critical thinking skills.

We DESPERATELY need hard science education so that we can compete with other countries in terms of advanced theory and practice and lead the world in innovation as we have since WWII.

Now I am all about righting injustice! I only go to court on child abuse cases in which there is some injustice to be righted, let me tell you!

But I am thinking that a unrepentent murderer is not a competent person to set educational theory.

And I am also thinking that school is a better place to learn about math and reading than some bloody handed Commie has been's minority opinion on justice.

Ayers deserves to die for the murders he committed. What can he teach anyone about violence? How to make a better bomb to kill more innocent people? As an infamous murdered of the innocent, I do not see how you can write what you wrote dude.

Michael - so leaden and boring. Garage already raised exactly the same point but did it much more artfully. With you, I know the tune you're getting at but it's like watching a six year old beginner claw their way through it on a violin.

This has been my entire problem with how the media has behaved during this campaign. They have never challenged any aspect of Obama's self-constructed narrative. Here is the first attempt and it's from a conservative author and columnist.

Sarah Palin says she's an advocate for special needs kids and the media says "Oh really?" and proceed to investigate her budget approvals.

John McCain says he wants to regulate Wall Street the media says "Oh really?" and proceed to investigate his efforts to deregulate industries.

Barack Obama says he's a really great guy who's going to bring everyone together to get things done and the media says "Oh really? That's so nice!"

"In his early days as a freshman senator, McCain was known for accepting contributions from Charles Keating Jr., flying to the banker's home in the Bahamas on company planes and taking up Keating's cause with U.S. financial regulators as they investigated him."

The CAC's agenda flowed from Mr. Ayers's educational philosophy, which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism.

Who cares if the children learn to reading, communication, mathematics, science, or anything useful? They can only graduate if they are infused with radical commitment. They get a scholarship to a community organizer school. They can be subject to the life of slavery as community organizers.

CAC translated Mr. Ayers's radicalism into practice. Instead of funding schools directly, it required schools to affiliate with "external partners," which actually got the money. Proposals from groups focused on math/science achievement were turned down. Instead CAC disbursed money through various far-left community organizers, such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or Acorn).

ACORN is the organization which several members were indicted across the country for vote fraud and other election irregularities; all felonies. It was founded by the leader of the SEIU, a very politically corrupt union.

this piece is past tense because the money ran out. What is not said here is that this was 49 million in Annenberg funds matched by another 100 million in public and private funds. pissed away, not on improving science/math/reading skills, but on social justice issues. not spent on fixing schools, but funneled to "commmunity groups" wih PC agenda's.

On previous threads, the other side talked about how Ayers had reformed, left bomb making and became an education expert. The education he has in mind is political, not the 3 R's

like somebody else said. The proof is that Obama's kids don'tgo to public school, unlike McCain's and Palin's that did.

surely the Chicago schools had a better use for 150 million than this. Now compare this to Obama's education plans and manditory public serice stuff. It's the same Ayers stuff writ large.

"So Mr. Kurtz got into the hidden dusty files and this essay is supposed to tell us the big shocking news that he discovered. What did he find out, Obama and Ayres both worked to improve urban failing schools!!!!!"

But they didn't improve public schools. Their own records shows that test scores remained static. Of course. they weren't trying to improve test scores anyway. That would legitimize the public school system. What they were trying to do is radicalize it.

The Senate Ethics Committee probe of the Keating Five began in November 1990, and committee Special Counsel Robert Bennett recommended that McCain and Glenn be dropped from the investigation. They were not. McCain believes Democrats on the committee blocked Bennett's recommendation because he was the lone Keating Five Republican.

In February 1991, the Senate Ethics Committee found McCain and Glenn to be the least blameworthy of the five senators. (McCain and Glenn attended the meetings but did nothing else to influence the regulators.)

That four to one (D to R) ratio probably still holds for the Fannie Mae mess. It's probably a good rule of thumb for all 'bi-partisan' scandals

I wonder how the media would react to the news that McCain or Sarah Palin launched her career from the living room of Timothy McVeigh (as Obama launched his in Ayers home).

Probably very differently. Compare and contrast the two hosts:

Tim McVeigh: Mass murderer living at the margins of societyBill Ayers: Nonmurderer, pillar of society.

Read what Mayor Daley had to say about Ayers in this Tribune article:

Family ties proved Ayers' point

By Ron Grossman Chicago Tribune May 18, 2008

A funny thing happened to Bill Ayers in the years between his first headline-grabbing activities and his cameo role in the 2008 presidential campaign. He became a pillar of the very establishment he had once conspired to bring down.

When questions were first raised about Barack Obama's relationship with Ayers, including their serving together on the board of a charitable foundation, Chicago's elite rallied behind Ayers.

Mayor Richard Daley proclaimed Ayers, an educational consultant to the city, "a valued member of the Chicago community."

"I don't condone what he did 40 years ago, but I remember that period well," Daley said. "It was a difficult time, but those days are long over."

The media simply do not show the same skepticism and curiosity when it comes to Obaama.

And for me, this is the rub. If the press was as concerned with the "radicalism" of Obama as they are with Palin, than I would not be so upset by what has happened since Palin was announced.

Personally, I don't think Kurtz has found anything more than he has already previously reported. Whether this was due to the files being "cleaned," I guess we will never know. As it stands now, I don't think this story will amount to much.

Ayers claims never to have killed anyone, and in all that I have read about him, he has never been tied to any deaths.

Ayers was a leader of the Weather underground. The WU declared war on the US. Ayers was part of an ongoing conspiracy to commit murder and arson.

the WU killed a policeman in SF witha shrapnel bomb. The NYC explosion leveled half the block. The explosives being built were designed for an Army NCO club dance. Having been an Army NCO at he time, I take that personally. There intent was to kill.

In a bombing that took place on February 16, 1970, and that was credited to the Weathermen at the time,[26][27] a pipe bomb filled with heavy metal staples and lead bullet projectiles was set off on the ledge of a window at the Park Station of the San Francisco Police Department. In the blast, Brian V. McDonnell, a police sergeant, was fatally wounded while Robert Fogarty, another police officer, received severe wounds to his face and legs and was partially blinded.[28]

Weatherman leader Bernardine Dohrn has been suspected of involvement in the February 16, 1970, bombing of the Park Police Station in San Francisco. At the time, Dohrn was said to be living with a Weatherman cell in a houseboat in Sausalito, California, unnamed law enforcement sources later told KRON-TV.[29] An investigation into the case was reopened in 1999,[30] and a San Francisco grand jury looked into the incident, but no indictments followed,[29] and no one was ever arrested for the bombing.[30] An FBI informant, Larry Grathwohl, who successfully penetrated the organization from the late summer of 1969 until April 1970, later testified to a U.S. Senate subcommittee that Bill Ayers, then a high-ranking member of the organization and a member of its Central Committee (but not then Dohrn's husband), had said Dohrn constructed and planted the bomb. Grathwohl testified that Ayers had told him specifically where the bomb was placed (on a window ledge) and what kind of shrapnel was put in it. Grathwohl said Ayers was emphatic, leading Grathwohl to believe Ayers either was present at some point during the operation or had heard about it from someone who was there.[31] In a book about his experiences published in 1976, Grathwohl wrote that Ayers, who had recently attended a meeting of the group's Central Committee, said Dohrn had planned the operation, made the bomb and placed it herself.[32] In 2008, author David Freddoso commented that "Ayers and Dohrn escaped prosecution only because of government misconduct in collecting evidence against them".[31][33]

That's why the Obama fans are clamoring for a return to the old angle. The old angle can be recast as "swiftboating." The new angle deeply undermines Obama's claim to be presidential material and is not swiftboating.

I anticipate the MSM's take on this story will be to try to drag it back to the first angle, conceding that "Kurtz's research shows that Obama understated his relationship with Ayers, a controversial figure with ties to 60s idealists and peace advocates."

They don't want to have to look more closely at the gross malfeasance of their management of this foundation, which didn't happen when Obama was eight years old. So Obama's critics will get that one little bone, and then the matter will be deemed as having been addressed even-handedly. Just watch.

variable says: "The media simply do not show the same skepticism and curiosity when it comes to Obaama."

Yeah, the media hasn't provided a single article or report relating to Obama's involvement in anything of any sort, especially anything relating to his personal life.

There have been absolutely NO reports relating to Rezko, Chicago politics, Daley, community organizers, accusing him of secretly being a Muslim, his wife hating America...not a single report. (Google "Obama scandals" and you only get a mere 2,600,000 hits)

The less charitable side of me says "please, please Republicans make your main line of attack on Obama "Bill Ayers, Saul Alinsky and Rev. Wright"! Given the seriousness of the problems that we face the American people would react with either puzzlement or horror that Republicans think this is what is important.

On a side note, I have turned in for short stints to listen to Rush Limbaugh over the last two days. It was quite funny to listen to him go all apoplectic and not know which way to turn. His man Bush just nationalized a good portion of the economy. If it was not so serious I could really enjoy Rush's ideological world caving in. On second thought, I am really enjoying it.

You are a couple years out of school. You are just starting to establish a career. You have no real credentials or experience. You are chin deep in school debt.

"Some guy" calls you up and offers you a seat on the board of a foundation that is going to pour $100 million dollars into the local political machine. But wait it gets better... Not only are you appointed to this board but despite being the youngest, least experienced, and least influential member by orders of magnitude, you are voted to be the chairman. You are now the guy in charge of the project to pour $100 million dollars into the local politcal machine. Lucky break huh?

After 7 years of using this position to build up favors and clout, you use this base to launch your political career.

The same "guy" is on hand to help out by throwing your first real fundraiser at his house. ( did I mention that his dad got you your first real job out of law school?).

Now, when asked, how would you describe this guy who single handedly made all of this possible?

Barack says " he's just a guy who lives in my neighborhood".

Considering this "guy's" first job was making bombs, you would think that Obama might want to show just a little bit more gratitude then that wouldn't you?

Ayers' former girlfriend was making a nail bomb that the Weather Underground planned to detonate at Fort Dix possibly to kill enlisted men. Repeat, not officers, just sergeants and privates.

Fort Dix is/was the Army's big induction center in New Jersey.

Wow, dude, what an act of revolutionary bravery, wanting to maim 18-year-old draftees or retired military people buying groceries at the post commissary. I would so much love to work for years and years reforming education with the genius behind such a noble operation.

In any event, the mere thought that a future United States Senator would spend years working hand-in-glove with a domestic terrorist who founded a group that exploded 20 bombs, including devices that went off in the Pentagon and Congress...it's stupefying.

More horrendous is the notion that the future Sen. Obama sat down in Ayers' home and broke bread with Ayers' wife, Katherine Dohrn, who shall forever be remembered for saying, "Dig it! Manson killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they shoved a fork into a victim's stomach." If Sen. Obama were a minister, priest, or rabbi dining in the home of such a person would be a duty, but for an elected representative of the people to do so is beyond the pale.

The only reason he is being described as a "Weather Underground Leader" is to help destroy Barack Obama in the Republican bid to cling to power.

Ayers has claimed his leadership role in interviews, books, articles, and other media.

Next you will be telling us that it is unfair to "smear" US Rep. Luis Guiterrez for being a member of the FALN or US Rep. Bobby Rush for being a member of the Black Panthers; you know, criminal terrorist community oganizations?

It seems that this educational program was geared not to improving students' academic performance but to refining their revolutionary potential....If Obama accepted the muted Marxism of this program as valid goals for underperforming children, do you wonder what program he will choose to restrain unruly bankers?

The Weathermen tried to kill my family.John M. Murtagh"In February 1970, my father, a New York State Supreme Court justice, was presiding over the trial of the so-called “Panther 21,” members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on the morning of February 21, as my family slept, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded at our home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family car. (Today, of course, we’d call that a car bomb.)

...Only a few weeks after the attack, the New York contingent of the Weathermen blew themselves up making more bombs in a Greenwich Village townhouse. The same cell had bombed my house ...And in late November that year, a letter to the Associated Press signed by Bernardine Dohrn, Ayers’s wife, promised more bombings."

But forget all that.Ayers remained a self-professed "small c" communist and he and Obama misspent $150M.

Where did it go?

How can a guy like Obama, who associates with people who believe in the repeatedly proven worst economic system in the world, and pisses money away like that, and then lies about it, be trusted with the reigns on the economy?

ACORN is the organization which several members were indicted across the country for vote fraud and other election irregularities; all felonies. It was founded by the leader of the SEIU, a very politically corrupt union.

Two significant errors in this statement, and I've corrected pvb on this before.

First, no ACORN members were indicted for voter fraud. Some few street canvassers hired by Acorn to register voters committed fraud by signing up the same voters multiple times, and have been indicted. Second, a decade after founding ACORN in the late 60s, Wade Rathke founded what became Local 100 of the SEIU. The actual SEIU was founded in 1921.

Note that resistance to voter fraud led Obama to his first elective office: Knowing that street signature gatherers are tempted to commit fraud, Obama had his opponents' nominating petitions checked when he first ran for the state Senate. Enough faked signatures were found to toss all of his opponents off the ballot.

But they didn't improve public schools. Their own records shows that test scores remained static.

surely the Chicago schools had a better use for 150 million than this. Now compare this to Obama's education plans and manditory public serice stuff. It's the same Ayers stuff writ large.

1. It is perhaps impossible to improve the Chicago Public Schools. But by God, when what they're doing hasn't worked for decades, you've got to try something. The CAC allowed them to try many different things.

2. CPS principals and teachers, like most bureaucrats, have arranged their jobs to maximize their own comfort, and resist all changes, which they feel directly threaten them. By giving them an extra $150 million all you do is reward failure.

3. Obama's public service plans are the same Bill Clinton stuff writ large, not Bill Ayers' stuff.

You can read a Heritage Foundation article slamming the similar Bill Clinton plan here:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/IB178.cfm

June 23, 1993Six Reasons Why Bill Clinton's National Service Program Is a Bad Ideaby Tucker, Allyson M.Issue Bulletin #178

You know what saves the lefty freaks defending this Obama/Ayers alliance, in the media and on this site? The fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans have never experienced the utterly cynical ruthless manipulation of communists up close and personal. Once you've been exposed to it, as Reagan was in the Screen Actors Guild, as I was in the SEIU when I went to sea in my misspent youth, you never forget what conscienceless cold-blooded killers the Ayers of this world are and you never let down your guard against them.

You seem certain that the media has given Obama a thorough vetting and not protected him in any way.

Please tell me, when did an article about Jeremiah Wright and the controversy regarding his connection with Barack Obama first appear in the New York Times?

I'm sure it was immediately after his sermons became public knowledge right? I'm sure it wasn't more than a month later was it? And I'm sure they launched an investigative piece right away, right? No? Oh well, at least they nailed that front-pager on McCain's supposed "mistress".

The argument that Obama has faced the kind of scrutiny deserving of a freshman senator with a scant record of public policy is just preposterous. As I said before, the news media treats the controversies as attacks, prints the campaign's response and moves on. That is not journalism, that's stenography.

Michael said: He took part in planting a bomb at a statue that broke windows and damaged the statue, and was involved in bombings at the NY City Police headquarters, U.S. Capitol building, and the Pentagon.

No one was killed or hurt.

And he made an ill-timed statement published in the NYT.

People want to know whether Obama sympathizes with Ayers's cause. Obama can easily draw a brighter line between himself and Ayers, but there must be some calculus behind why he doesn't.

You know that is not exactly the issue, but let me spell it to you, to humor myself.

The media (it is a plural noun) have been ignoring these connections. Obama has not been forthcoming about them, and what has transpired trough other channels seems to indicate that Obama shared or even still does share some of the idealogical leanings and objectives, if not all of them, of these associates.

Ayers association with Obama is extremely interesting. Ayers facilitated bombings, a couple of his mates murdered people or blew themselves up. He helped plan riots and a host of other exciting activities.

Nope, not a big deal. I'm sure Obama didn't know or care about any of that.

Sen O's relationship with Mr. Ayers is a legitimate subject that SHOULD be examined, and I am glad that it is finally seeing the light of day. Yes, the Keating Five thing should be out of there as well (frankly I am surprised it is not, but maybe this weekend there will be an entire NYT/WAPO retrospective to refresh us all).

Unlike the recent banal discussions about pigs, lipsticks, cars, et al, these two aforementioned issues speak to the character and judgement of the candidates, which should (and I believe are) important to voters.

So yes, when the country is facing a massive financial crisis, Senator McCain's Keating Five debacle is relevant. Likewise, a man who could very well become the next commander-in-chief amidst a war on terror should be questioned about his relationship with an unrepentant terrorist, one who plotted to bomb the pentagon (which was also, I might add, bombed by other terrorists at the start of the war on terror).

Both of these issues matter to me, and I suspect they matter to many other people, too; we'll find out just how much in a few weeks, I suppose. My uneducated guess is that both Senators would prefer to flush Keating/Ayers down the memory hole, and just count each other's cars, houses, lipsticks, and pigs, until they cross the finish line in November.

"Some guy" calls you up and offers you a seat on the board of a foundation that is going to pour $100 million dollars into the local political machine.

Actually, none of that money went into the local political machine -- that was what really pissed Daley off. Ken Rolling was quoted as saying Daley tried three times to pry the money away from the CAC.

Ayers' former girlfriend was making a nail bomb that the Weather Underground planned to detonate at Fort Dix possibly to kill enlisted men.

How was Ayers involved? I sure as hell would not like to be convicted based on what my former girlfriends did. I think the attempt to possibly kill enlisted men ended when his girlfriend blew herself up.

members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores.

Helloooo! Members of the Black Panther Party, Hellooo!

It's not that he didn't try and then regret failing.

Who did Ayers try, personally, to kill?

How can a guy like Obama, who associates with people who believe in the repeatedly proven worst economic system in the world, and pisses money away like that, and then lies about it, be trusted with the reigns on the economy?

I share your sense of outrage, but I believe that Obama's capitalist associates like Buffett and Rubin are fundamentally decent, even though Paulson and Bernanke are planning to blast through a trillion dollars of taxpayer money to bail out Wall Street.

As someone who is voting for Obama, should I care who this "Ayers" person is? I see his name on the internet along with the word "terrorist" every once and while, but other than that I have no idea who he is. Can someone give me a couple of quick facts (FACTS please) or a couple of sentences to summarize why I should care?

Daddy was a Marxist. Mommy was a racially self hating, America hating lefty.

Obama's mentors have always been lefties. From his Marxist black radical father figure in Hawaii to Edward Said at Columbia to Jeremiah Wright in Chicago to the guy with his forearm up his ass now David Axelrod.

But that's "old news inside the beltway new news outside."

The McCain camp needs to hit hard on this and act as if the public is unaware of all this.

He is on the record saying that he'll raise the capital gains tax not to increase revenues to the govt., but instead out of a sense of fairness. I doubt he got such an idea from reading Adam Smith (or Ayn Rand).

I'm still stuck on the awesome lie Alpha Liberal posted, claiming Ayers wasn't a leader of the Weather Underground.

Ayers was one of the 11 signers of the manifesto creating the Weathermen. His wife, Bernadine Dohrn was another.

Did Ayers try to kill anybody? You'd have to know his mind to know that. But he clearly advocated the destruction by bombing of property in public places where people gathered. He claims to have been careful not to hurt anyone, but as his own dead comrades might have recognized in Greenwich Village in 1970 if their brains hadn't been splattered, when you're messing with bombs, shit happens. So while it might be fair to say Ayers isn't a murderer, it's also fair to say that it is purely a matter of luck that he didn't accidentally kill a lot of people.

But forget all that. Obama's mere involvement with Ayers has survived the vetting process. America doesn't care that Obama found Ayers to be worthy of his friendship and patronage. However, I do think it we have the right to expect a mainstream organizations to investigate the issues Kurtz has raised, i.e. how well or poorly did Obama and Ayers working together manage $150 million? It is Obama's one and only executive job where he had more than just an office budget to spend. How'd it work out? For any other candidate, it would be a natural avenue of exploration. Like, say, if Obama was a former small-town mayor. There might be some public interest in how he ran that place. If the NY Times wants to prove McCain a liar, they should unleash five reporters to go through the Annenberg foundation files and find out what happened.

I saw this many years ago. I was horrified at what they stood for. They reminded me of the anarchist groups in Europe in the 1970s, like the Baader-Meinhof gang in Germany, or the Brigate Rosse in Italy. It was armed terrorism using whatever "means necessary" to bring down the system.

After I saw the documentary, I put them out of my mind. I knew they lived still, and some had been rewarded instead of punished for their misdeeds. What can you do, one moves on.

Then when it was revealed that Barack Obama (a man I had been following with interest ever since I had read his autobiography in 2002) had launched his political career at the home of Bill Ayers, the main Weatherman, I was literally stunned into silence.

This is the man who said:

That same year, ironically in comments published on September 11, 2001, Ayers had this to say about his bombing past, "I don't regret setting bombs, I feel we didn't do enough."

This is not the man you know. This is the kind of man you run away from.

The Bill Ayers-Bernadette Dohrn connexion is as troubling as the Rev. Wright one. Take all three, and it would've imploded any other candidate's chances by now.

The corollary would be if Palin had a Grand Wizard KKK pastor, served on some board alongside Eric Rudolph and had launched her political career from his home or from Timothy McVeigh's.

And for me, this is the rub. If the press was as concerned with the "radicalism" of Obama as they are with Palin, than I would not be so upset by what has happened since Palin was announced.

Obama's opponents have tried to make an issue of his association with Ayers since before he was asked about it at the Democratic candidate debate, April 16, 2008. Absent more meat, this is a non-story.

I'm sure all the Palin scandals will have died down in five months' time, as well.

I'm sure that's how you'd like it to be. But given Obama's incredible dissembling on his associations with Ayers, I think he knows it has the potential to be more than just a non-story. His response to challenges on BAIPA indicate the same. Such issues are stories because Obama is so clearly desparate for them not to be.

As someone who is voting for Obama, should I care who this "Ayers" person is?

I guess it depends on if you believe people can be defined by who they associate with. If you think that constructing bombs and blowing up government buildings is an appropriate way to protest then I suppose you probably don't care who Ayers is.

On the other hand, if I found out John McCain was buddies with David Duke or with an unrepentant former camp guard from Buchenwald, I'd probably switch my vote but that's just me.

Obama's LIFELONG associations with people on the left radical fringe are important.

Republicans and libertarians have to accept their share of responsibility for this. Obama associates himself with educators; in fact two of his biggest supporters are employees of Harvard and the University of California. Republicans notoriously start their own businesses, or work for private industry, rather than work for government or non-profit organizations.

In fact, the very term "non-profit" should make a good Republican's skin crawl.

The Republicans also fell down historically when it came to civil rights for black people. After a promising start during the Civil War and Reconstruction, their push for equality between the races failed. The first US political party to treat blacks and whites as equal was the Communist Party; "transmission belt" groups they formed attracted many black people.

If people who believe in education and in civil rights belong to the Left, supporting these things will expose you to a lot of Leftists.

"Obama's mere involvement with Ayers has survived the vetting process. America doesn't care that Obama found Ayers to be worthy of his friendship and patronage".

I disagree with you somewhat, John. The association with Ayers isn't a dealbreaker, otherwise Sen Obama never would have survived the primaries. But I'll wager that the cumulative associations of Rev Wright, Ayers, etc., certainly have not helped his candidacy; any time spent discussing either of these gentlemen is certainly time off message.

It actually is working to Obama's benefit that Ayers actually was a terrorist.

If Ayers history was exactly the same, excepting for the terrorism part, then the focus would be on "why was Obama consorting and working with a radical leftist?" Is it because he is one, too?

The mind can make that jump.

But because Ayers is a terrorist, the mind tests the query "why was Obama consorting and working with a terrorist? Is it because he is one, too?" and the mind immediately rejects that jump.

As it should.

But the first jump can be made. That Obama and Ayers have worked together as much as they did, and because Ayers kicked off Obama's political career, and because Obama has pretty much lied about how involved they were together, and because Obama and his supporters tried very hard to keep people from looking into this, it is very reasonable to wonder if Obama is merely liberal, or is he on the radical fring of leftism?

His friends and allies often seem to be there, be it Ayers or Rev. Wright.

But instead, people just dismiss the idea because it is obvious that Obama isn't and never was a terrorist. The idea "he's not like that" gets processed, where if Ayers was merely a radical, the idea "he is like that" would take root.

But given Obama's incredible dissembling on his associations with Ayers, I think he knows it has the potential to be more than just a non-story.

Dude, untangle your syntax. I knew Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin was a friend of mine, and you, my friend, are no Sarah Palin.

If there was any fuel behind the fire behind the smoke, smear merchant Kurtz would have found it. The right wing has been working on this night and day, with might and main, since March.

If the Ayers-Obama connection bothers you, because when Obama was in grammar school an education prof he would meet decades in the future was associated with a group that planted bombs to protest the Vietnam War, why aren't you even more exercised about McCain's current association with a man who lied to Congress six years ago to get us into a war that has already cost over 4000 American lives? Why do you look at that as a huge non-story?

"Associations" or how much "influence" one has over another is a difficult thing to prove. Obama can distance himself from this Ayers person as far as possible, and some will call him a liar, but can you really be certain?

It depends on whether or not you choose to believe Obama.

Hanging out with someone doesn't necessarily mean that you subscribe to their beliefs or are as "bad" as them. Remember McCain going to Falwell's "university"?

L. E. Lee said... Ain't gonna work this time fellas. This election is about how the U.S. has gotten itself into one of the worst economic AND foreign policy position since the WWII/Great Depression era. So, you all can try the ol' Willy Horton/flag burning/swift boating side shows but the American people clearly are not buying it this time around.

Yeah, right.

Everytime Black Messiah gets caught lying, or gets pummled on an issue by the likes of Hillary - he had a predictable response:

former law student said..."why aren't you even more exercised about McCain's current association with a man who lied to Congress six years ago to get us into a war that has already cost over 4000 American lives? Why do you look at that as a huge non-story?"

It is and will remain a non-story unless or until as much as a shred of evidence emerges proving that Bush (1) lied to Congress (2) with intent to to have them declare war.

I remember when The Wonderful World of Bissage was on NBC on Sunday nights. They even had my favorite movie "Follow Me Goys" which stared Fred MacMurray, a young Kurt Russell and Totie Fields as the woman who came between them.

John McCain: "I'm a Maverick."Media: "Why do you vote with your party all the time?"

Sarah Palin: "I'm a reformer."Media: "Why didn't you get rid of all the earmarks in the budget?"

Barack Obama: "I'm a agent of change that can heal this country's wounds and not at all a radical leftist."Media: "Yup, that sounds about right. Oh and don't forget to mention what a really great guy you are! {smooches} :-*"

Hanging out with someone doesn't necessarily mean that you subscribe to their beliefs or are as "bad" as them.

Of course not. Sounds like you haven't bothered to read Kurtz's articles, though. We're not talking about just "hanging out."

And you really don't have to believe any of Kurtz's subjective analysis, either. For instance, the Obama campaign "notes that Mr. Ayers attended only six board meetings."

I thought he was just a guy who lives in his neighborhood? Hell, I live about 5 houses down from a former Bush administration official. He's just a guy in my neighborhood. But if he attended six board meetings of an organization which he helped create, and in which I was chairman, he will become a little more than "just a neighbor." If I decided to enter politics and held one of my first fundraisers at his house, he will become a little more than "just a neighbor."

If I tried to claim otherwise, you lefties would have a shit fit. And you'd be justified.

Hanging out with someone doesn't necessarily mean that you subscribe to their beliefs or are as "bad" as them.

Well there is the old saying of birds of a feather...

Generally people gravitate to those who share the same interests. Again, there are people who have no problem with Ayres or even what he did when Obama was eight. I am not one of them. I think he was a terrorist then and unrepentant now. His view of America is not mine or even one I would want to contemplate. That in and of itself is enough to turn me off of Obama. Then there is just the simple fact that Obama is a full blown leftist which I don't subscribe to at all.

Here is Wiki's report on the fatal bombing and murder that Ayers and Dohrn should have gone to prison for:

In a bombing that took place on February 16, 1970, and that was credited to the Weathermen at the time,[26][27] a pipe bomb filled with heavy metal staples and lead bullet projectiles was set off on the ledge of a window at the Park Station of the San Francisco Police Department. In the blast, Brian V. McDonnell, a police sergeant, was fatally wounded while Robert Fogarty, another police officer, received severe wounds to his face and legs and was partially blinded.[28]Weatherman leader Bernardine Dohrn has been suspected of involvement in the February 16, 1970, bombing of the Park Police Station in San Francisco. At the time, Dohrn was said to be living with a Weatherman cell in a houseboat in Sausalito, California, unnamed law enforcement sources later told KRON-TV.[29] An investigation into the case was reopened in 1999,[30] and a San Francisco grand jury looked into the incident, but no indictments followed,[29] and no one was ever arrested for the bombing.[30] An FBI informant, Larry Grathwohl, who successfully penetrated the organization from the late summer of 1969 until April 1970, later testified to a U.S. Senate subcommittee that Bill Ayers, then a high-ranking member of the organization and a member of its Central Committee (but not then Dohrn's husband), had said Dohrn constructed and planted the bomb. Grathwohl testified that Ayers had told him specifically where the bomb was placed (on a window ledge) and what kind of shrapnel was put in it. Grathwohl said Ayers was emphatic, leading Grathwohl to believe Ayers either was present at some point during the operation or had heard about it from someone who was there.[31] In a book about his experiences published in 1976, Grathwohl wrote that Ayers, who had recently attended a meeting of the group's Central Committee, said Dohrn had planned the operation, made the bomb and placed it herself.[32] In 2008, author David Freddoso commented that "Ayers and Dohrn escaped prosecution only because of government misconduct in collecting evidence against them".[31][33]

What's that? Ayers planted a bomb filled with staples and hunks of lead!

Kind of a bizarre thread. The Obama supporters are just not dealing with the subject.1) Obama lied outright about his relationship with Ayers. He knew him well, and worked with him closely. He obviously doesn't agree with the posters here that this is not a big deal; otherwise, why would he lie?2) His only executive position involved working with tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money, ostensibly to improve schools. He did not in any way try to improve schools. Instead, he took the money and co-opted it to try to push radical progressive views on students.3) We should be able to learn from this what he really does when he has power. Not what he says he will do, what he actually did.

Disgusting. These facts should cause any person with a conscience to refuse to support him for president. Unless they feel that teaching kids progressive dogma is worth any deception.

If you agree with that statement, but doubt that these are facts, definitely demand the data. But don't just claim that you're off the hook because Kurtz didn't provide footnotes. Presumably he will soon.

Awhile back I met the former Bush adminstration official at a neighborhood party. Neither I nor he (or our spouses) planned the party, though we did contribute to the food (it was a potluck). Do I still get to call him "just a guy in my neighborhood?"

FLS said: If the Ayers-Obama connection bothers you, because when Obama was in grammar school an education prof he would meet decades in the future was associated with a group that planted bombs to protest the Vietnam War...

Don't pretend that Obama's tender age at the time matters here. I'm his age, and by the time I got to college, there were plenty of ways to show support for the "cause".

Ayers, Wright, et al, goes directly to Obama's poor judgment. He has clearly made amazingly poor choices of associates and mentors and that speaks volumes about him and the types and quality of people he would have around him as President.

Ayers publicly admitted he was "guilty as sin" of the charges brought against him. He is a hard leftist who hates America as he showed us clearly when he looked down on us in that photograph of him standing on our flag. Guilty as sin? Absolutely.

For a flavor of Obama's close associate's thinking, in his own words, here is the end of Ayers speech in Nov. 2006 to the "World Educational Forum":

"we, too, must build a project of radical imagination and fundamental change. Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education– a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation. This World Education Forum provides us a unique opportunity to develop and share the lessons and challenges of this profound educational project that is the Bolivarian Revolution.

It seems that one can't be critical of a politician without someone saying, "but what about your guy?"

McCain isn't my guy. I've never been too fond of him.

Keating 5? Come on, that was decades ago. If there were anything to it –and it was thoroughly investigated and people imprisoned – then why wasn't McCain charged with anything? Much ado about nothing. But even if he is guilty of anything, it doesn't ameliorate the guilt of Obama.

The main thing is that it doesn't matter about how good or bad McCain is. Obama consorts with communist terrorists. That's bad enough and no comparisons need be made to anyone else to condemn him for that.

Here's another great moment in the NYT's coverage of Obama...Its February 2008 report on his drug use. Three people are quoted—one is his loyal half-sister, the second a former classmate friend who's now an Obama fundraiser, and the third is a convicted drug-felon who did not know him during the period when Obama says he was using drugs the most. The article says more than 36 people were interviewed. And none were at Columbia, only in Hawaii and at Occidental College in LA.

What a joke.

And Former Law Student--

Ayers has never even acknowledged that he ever was a terrorist. He says the US government is the terrorist— "The reason we weren't terrorists is because we did not commit random acts of terror against people," he told the Chicago Tribune in 2001. He also told the NY Times he does not regret personally setting bombs. I guess that dead cop in San Francisco doesn't count cuz, like, he was a pig. Good thing nobody was that ladies bathroom at the Pentagon.

The bathroom bomber. Even al-Qaeda has more dignity than to try to kill women in toilets.

Hanging out with someone doesn't necessarily mean that you subscribe to their beliefs or are as "bad" as them.

(Third time's the charm?)

Obama wasn't just hanging out with Ayers on the CAC board. He was funding Ayers' activist groups, and those of similar-minded philosophies: radicalism, anti-capitalism, "social awareness." In schools, targeting students of all ages, and their parents. Programs targeting math and science enrichment were denied funding.

From what I've read, it looks as though Ayers put Obama in to rubberstamp his and his friends' proposals, and to write the checks. $150 million is a lot to spend with literally nothing to show for it.

This is Obama's ONLY executive experience -- why can't we talk about it? Leave Ayers out of the discussion altogether if need be -- how did Obama decide where to spend that money, and what did he learn from all those miserable failures?

"Stanley's work is a challenge to mainstream journalists. A candidate for the presidency has a demonstrated working relationship with — indeed funded — an unrepentant terrorist, yet the media have spent more time reporting about Sarah Palin's hair styles."