Bill went to a meeting last night in Manzanita about the new park going in on the Nehalem, starting at Lost Creek and going towards Cook Creek on the South Fork.

Man, is there ever alot of anger over this park!

Bill came back saying that he had never heard such talk at a public meeting. I guess the mayor of Manzanita was so mad he was saying the "F" word! Can you imagine? Bill was just shocked. He said that little old ladies were cussing about it! I just can't picture it! I kept saying, "Bill, are you exaggerating?"

"NO!" He insisted it was so!

I don't know how to feel about this. Bill said he can't understand why they don't want the tax dollars that it will bring. If there is anyone who cares about the fish, it's Bill. He doesn't seem to think it will be a problem and says that everything is being handled very carefully.

I, personally hate to see the river and the beautiful area gummied up by a park. I guess it would have to be done discreetly, but Bill doesn't seem to think it will hurt the fish at all, and says it is just a small park.

I worry about the traffic, though, on such a small, dangerous road. That is one heck of a road and I always worry when I'm trailering on it.

Man... I don't know... there are alot of people really upset and against this park. I'm really surprised that there hasn't been any talk about it on here on ifish.

Did anyone else attend? Bill said he was really upset to hear such cussing from public servants at a public meeting.

I wasn't there, so all I have is Bill's word, but he was really upset when he came home.

Jen

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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Whoo hooo! What a Ride!”

From what you say it looks like some of the locals are against this park.
With all the crowding of the small coastal rivers and the big mess that comes with the crowds I must say I do not blame those who object to it.
I know I would not like to see something like this on the small rivers I fish and have property on.
Allow me to ask you this, would you or Bill be in favor of that same park going in on the Kilchis river? What do you think would be the outcome of that?
IMO they should put parks and ramps on rivers that can support the amount of pressure they will bring.
This is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Well...........I can say that I went to the meeting with Phil Donovan (lobbyist for the Steelheaders) that was in Wilsonville this afternoon. It was a small informal affair but there was some discussion of what happened down there in Manzanita.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about the potential for the park and there are still some things I want to talk to Bill about to see what his take was from the meeting but I do have a couple of thoughts regarding the development of the park.

My partners and I have fished that system for lots of years (like 20) and I STILL get looked at like a "flat lander from Portland" even thought I can recognize the same local fellas from years past. There is very much a local contingent that views the river as "Their River". Alot of the public outcry comes from people that fish down there and consider themselves local. I think alot of the reaction is just the initial realization that there is going to be some development going on in an area that has typically been kinda out of the way. Alot of the anger is coming from the fact that the development is going to be right at the mouth of Lost Creek where alot of folks do their elk hunting as well as fishing, and have been doing for alot of years. I feel for those people who are looking at a change in the way that they do things and have come to expect things to stay

Another frame of thought is to understand that in order for people to get involved with something and want to preserve it, they need to experience it and become emotionally attached. Without parks like these then people are going to become detached from the outdoors and be stuck in front of there computers playing games and whatnot.

I grew up in the day when shooting your deer and catching your limit was not all that hard. Now I look at my neices and nephews and friends kids and wonder, "What kinda of legacy am I leaving behind?" Am I leaving a place better than I found it or just being a taker and being happy with getting mine? Parks like these are a necessity for alot of people to at least geta taste of the Outdoors. Many people have no clue how to get comfortable without having running water or a toilet at the ready. Like it or not, these people vote on many of the issues that WE, that call ourselves Outdoorsman are directly affected by. Remenber the cougar and bear vote? I'll bet hardly a single soccer mom did not see the videos and propoganda that eventually brought the end to a way of hunting that Oregon has enjoyed since it's inception!

I agree that it is a nasty little road-traffic will definitely increase but the park is going to be on the south side of Foss Road and likely you will not be able to see much of it when you are driving by so the visual detraction will be minimal. Development will be years in the making and people will not see anything in the near future even if they got the green light tomorrow. There will be a ton more public input concerning the layout and overall design of the park as this is just the first draft of the plan. I will try and put the web address up so people can see what is proposed and they can then add their comments concerning what is happening.

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Might as well Rotenone Cook Crick in April. Like it needs more pressure via some spiffy park.

A watershed that is very busy with 5 anglers NEEDS a marketing program to bring more attention to it....More mental giants helping the masses discover nature.....the same masses who think Barton and Carver are 'nature'.

I wonder how long it will take for it to be fished out.

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A curious thing happens when hatchery fish stocks decline: People who aren't aware of the old levels accept the new ones as normal. Over generations, societies adjust their expectations downward to match prevailing conditions

I have fished and hunted that area for 40 years and i took a drive up there 3 weeks ago to take a look and see what was up. The state wants to put a new bridge at cook creek and the park would be from lost creek to cook creek. I hear 300 hundred acres south side of river. Why don't we take that money and upgrade some of the parks in the area and do the upkeep as needed and not build. I live in estacada and just built a new house in newhalem. Let's spend $$$$$$ in the right area. We don't need blacktop camp spots in that area. The area parks are run down and need a face lift. What ever happen to the nice park at the forks on the trask. I won't ramble on. my 2 cents.

I agree with the face lift theory it is to me very mind boggling to see many of our parks facilities declining...and yet millions of dollars are being spent to ceate more,I COMPLETELY support parks and new parks but am honestly confused on why their seems to be very little effort to maintain the integrety of the already developed spaces.....I will continue to do my part in the preservation of these spaces.

Why don't we take that money and upgrade some of the parks in the area and do the upkeep as needed and not build. ........The area parks are run down and need a face lift. .

Those quotes pretty much reflect what a majority of the locals feel. And I do mean a majority. I too, was at the meeting in Manzanita. One of the reasons people were so angry is that it has become apparent that no matter what the"locals" have to say the parks department is going to do what it wants. Nehalem Bay State Park still hasn't put in all the docks for the boat launch. Nor have they built the breakwaters at the launch like they said they would 25 years ago. Spend the money there.

The State spent 2 million bucks buying the property without even asking any local people what they thought of the idea of a park. The state published an advertising flier in 2006 speaking of Cougar Valley Park of having full RV hookups, showers and all the amenities and then come to the locals in Feb. 2007 and said "we have no preconceived notions, tell us what you want". We told them we want nothing and they still came back.

Tillamook county road department has so little money that they are letting paved county roads revert back to gravel. When was the last time any of you drove Foss road? In many places guard rails are suspended in mid air.

It would take 45 minutes for a county deputy to get to the park in an emergency. Several other parks have been shut down, gated or a host installed due to traveling meth labs.

Our fire department is completely volunteer. They already respond to emergencies at Oswald West and Nehalem Bay. They don't need a new concentration of emergencies 25 minutes the opposite direction.

In other words, a park at lost creek would overload the system. And, it is not your system it is ours. The one the locals pay for. The parks dept. offered to "help" with the roads. We consider that help....assisted suicide.

We understand that we are the playground for the valley. We would just like to confine the playground to west of hwy 101.

It was an angry meeting. I too was surprised that the Manzanita Mayor used the F word. I believe the anger was partly due to the fact that after numerous letters from city councils and citizens, petitions containing signatures of approximately 75% of our voters and two public meetings the State Parks department actually showed surprise monday night when they finally realized we don't want that park. 2 million dollars later. You don't need prefabed fire pits, swept camping sites, running water and showers to discover nature. Gubment in action.

Stepping down from soap box.
Thank you

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

If the masses want to camp/spend a day on the Nehalem river, Spruce Run park is a few clicks up the road. Same experience. Closer to the highway. Paved entry. Shorter drive from the PDX metro area. Less impact.

Then again, government creates government.

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A curious thing happens when hatchery fish stocks decline: People who aren't aware of the old levels accept the new ones as normal. Over generations, societies adjust their expectations downward to match prevailing conditions

From what you say it looks like some of the locals are against this park.
With all the crowding of the small coastal rivers and the big mess that comes with the crowds I must say I do not blame those who object to it.
I know I would not like to see something like this on the small rivers I fish and have property on.
Allow me to ask you this, would you or Bill be in favor of that same park going in on the Kilchis river? What do you think would be the outcome of that?
IMO they should put parks and ramps on rivers that can support the amount of pressure they will bring.
This is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Umm...Actually, there already is such a park just upriver from Jennie and Bill...

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Bill Monroe

"Yet it isn't the gold that I'm wanting
So much as just finding the gold."
Robert Service

I have a weekend place in Nehalem and have also fished the Nehalem rivers for lots of years now. Knowing the area I am sure they would have to build a new road into the Cook creek area (Foss Rd.) the current road would simply not hold up to the increased traffic and large campers, & 5th wheels.
My greatest concern would be the impact to fish passage for the all native summer Chinook run. The water in certain areas is quite shallow up there and the last thing we need is for a bunch of swimmer, tubers, rafters or increased drift boats in the late hot summer months spooking those fish and keeping them from moving upstream. Those fish are a precious native resource and any negative impact should be avoided.
With that said what can we do to stop this project? This is the first I have heard about it.

Folks, remember that Tillamook County Commissioners will have to approve or didapprove the permits for the park. If you have thoughts on the subject you should write to them. Mark Labhart, Tim Josi, Chuck Hurliman, 201 Laurel Ave. Tillamook, OR 97141-503-842-3403. I sure am glade that will not have to make that decision. In most land use issues you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. JD

IWith that said what can we do to stop this project? This is the first I have heard about it.

First Light Bite there is a copy of the preliminary master plan at the Manzanita Library, They are proposing a new road and bridge at the site of the old state forestry camp. They then plan to relocate the existing road that runs from the CCC bridge to Cook Creek so they can put camp sites between the road and the river. There will also be walk in camping up Lost Creek Road and apparently they are going to put "viewing platforms" along lost creek. Apparently campers can't see nature unless they have a platform to stand on.

What can we do to stop it? Contact the parks department, call Betsy Johnson, try anything. One of the reasons for the anger at the public meeting was that the Park department was not listening, At one point 2 hours into the meeting, one of the park employees giving the presentation said "you are not saying you do not want the park are you?". The whole audience yelled "YES WE ARE" it was amazing.

After individual letters, letters from the City of Nehalem, and the City of Manzanita, a petition and two public meetings, all against the formation of the park, the state is still going on with it. I think the states view is we already spent a couple of million, we might as well spend a couple more.

We are a tad bit frustrated.

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

Well...........I can say that I went to the meeting with Phil Donovan (lobbyist for the Steelheaders) that was in Wilsonville this afternoon. It was a small informal affair but there was some discussion of what happened down there in Manzanita.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about the potential for the park and there are still some things I want to talk to Bill about to see what his take was from the meeting but I do have a couple of thoughts regarding the development of the park.

My partners and I have fished that system for lots of years (like 20) and I STILL get looked at like a "flat lander from Portland" even thought I can recognize the same local fellas from years past. There is very much a local contingent that views the river as "Their River". Alot of the public outcry comes from people that fish down there and consider themselves local. I think alot of the reaction is just the initial realization that there is going to be some development going on in an area that has typically been kinda out of the way. Alot of the anger is coming from the fact that the development is going to be right at the mouth of Lost Creek where alot of folks do their elk hunting as well as fishing, and have been doing for alot of years. I feel for those people who are looking at a change in the way that they do things and have come to expect things to stay
.

I just reread your post crayfin and am somewhat alarmed. Are you telling us the NW steelheaders are partly behind this park? Your organization is going to ruin that beautiful area for the sake of a paved boat launch? Now I understand why Bill was at the meeting.

Also you are making the same mistake that Parks Dept. made.You think you know who is angry and why and you don't have a clue. Some of those old ladies that were cussing probably haven't wet a line for 40 years. If you want change, change your own neighborhood. We would just like a say in the changes in our neighborhood.

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

Yep. Lessee, Oregon State money, eh? I wonder how many State Patrol officers that $2 million would buy when you add in the annual operating and continuing infrastructure development costs?

Not quite and no comparison to OSP funding.

The funds for Parks are dedicated monies mostly coming from the Oregon Lottery. Creating parks was the promise made to Oregon citizens as a trade-off in accepting the lottery.

While it sounds like there's bunch of problems with this proposal, lets keep in mind that while Oregon's population has increased from 2-million to 3.2 million in the last 25 years, our state park system as remained stagnant. Until recently.

As for arguments about a park 'overloading the system' - Tillamook County's Commissioners have been the cheerleaders for the mega-developments that do place the EXPENSE BURDEN on the rest of us Tillamook property owners.

I'll take parks anytime over the deveopments like the 300 homes the Tilly Commissioners just approved for Netarts.

__________________Welcome, to the days you've made.
IFisher 234

“…we’re proud of not knowing things. Americans have reached a point where ignorance, especially of anything related to public policy, is an actual virtue. To reject the advice of experts is to assert autonomy, a way for Americans to insulate their increasingly fragile egos from ever being told they’re wrong about anything.” Tom Nichols

This drives home what a lot of people never think about. When tourists are inconsiderate and cause problems for the locals, they will begin to resent them. Don't assume that because you buy your lunch or gas in a particular town that you have made up for the additional burden you have put on the people of that town. Please remember to tread lightly and be respectful of the people who live in the area as well as their way of life. It is definately a good idea to spend money in the area, but that is not a justification to be a burden.
As an example, my in-laws live in Sitka, AK and they hate tourist season, because of the additional traffic and the rude people. You can routinely find the main road blocked by people taking pictures of the old russian church in town. They don't seem to understand that they are disrupting peoples day to get that "Perfect Shot".

In this case, I would say the town has some very legitimate concerns that the state needs to address before building this new park.

I'm a little familiar with that area and while I have no opinion either way on that site, let me add a little perspective. I worked parks in the Tillamook area for a few years recently. The developed parks are well maintained and patrolled. But on any given weekend Tillamook County is strapped for RV spots or even tent camp sites. Please don't tell me how rugged people can find a site anywhere in the woods. I've seen the mess these rugged individuals leave and how they seem to hack out their own little campsites with no regard to the forest. The fact is there are too many people accessing this area and sitting back and pretending if you don't build it they won't come is plain nuts.

I remember the outcry from the locals in Vernonia in the 70s when the state proposed the linear State Park. Toady it is one of the more popular areas to ride and the vandalism predicted by the locals is not occurring.

Hordes of campers descend on Pacific City on the surfing weekends and end up camping on the beach. The mess and human waste left behind is unbelievable. They can't understand why it is illegal. Do you want your kids playing around undeveloped camp sites or should we just lock up the woods to everyone except the locals?

I really doubt there is going to be any more impact there than at Spruce Run. At least there are toilet facilities.

Let's face it Tillamook! You have a very desireable county to live in and derive a lot of benefit from outside money. You can't hide anymore, right Jerry?

The funds for Parks are dedicated monies mostly coming from the Oregon Lottery. Creating parks was the promise made to Oregon citizens as a trade-off in accepting the lottery.

While it sounds like there's bunch of problems with this proposal, lets keep in mind that while Oregon's population has increased from 2-million to 3.2 million in the last 25 years, our state park system as remained stagnant. Until recently.

As for arguments about a park 'overloading the system' - Tillamook County's Commissioners have been the cheerleaders for the mega-developments that do place the EXPENSE BURDEN on the rest of us Tillamook property owners.

I'll take parks anytime over the deveopments like the 300 homes the Tilly Commissioners just approved for Netarts.

Another example is The Capes, when it comes to the Tillamook County Commissioners deciding on which projects get OK'd, it's just a matter of show me the money.
Or using the Tillamook State Forest as their own personal ATM.

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salmon hugger

"A curious thing happens when fish stocks decline: People who aren't aware of the old levels accept the new ones as normal. Over generations, societies adjust their expectations downward to match prevailing conditions." Kennedy Warne

I don't live down there but have been hunting and fishing in that area for over 20 years. For what it's worth I think the area is already overcrouded with recreation. It's a very beautiful secinic area that still at least is uninhabited enough to give you a good days fishing trip with some solitude. There aren't many areas left close to us that are that way that the public is allowed to use. I know that the population is growing and there are more people wanting somewhere to get away to on the weekends. Why can't we leave these areas natural and enjoy that on the weekends and spend our tax dollars maintaining them and for security to patrol the areas and try to control the slobs that trash and abuse them. My idea of quality time in the outdoors doesn't include a Motor Home, public toilets, picnic tables, and a general store near by. I think a big park would mean "solitude and good fishing-bye bye", "trash, land abuse, and more potential violence- Hello". If I offended anyone with this it wasn't my intent. Just my honest opinion on a area I love to spend time in.

... It's a very beautiful secinic area that still at least is uninhabited enough to give you a good days fishing trip with some solitude. There aren't many areas left close to us that are that way that the public is allowed to use. I know that the population is growing and there are more people wanting somewhere to get away to on the weekends. Why can't we leave these areas natural .....

And that might just be exactly the solution....

The area's now in public ownership ensuring future fishing/recreation access. Perhaps that should be the extent of the development? I completely agree about what some friends call industrial-strength-recreational development. It can be very out-of-place.

Keep the area natural. People want to get AWAY from the asphalt...let them enjoy walking on the forest floor instead of an experience they can get in the Walmart parking lot.

__________________Welcome, to the days you've made.
IFisher 234

“…we’re proud of not knowing things. Americans have reached a point where ignorance, especially of anything related to public policy, is an actual virtue. To reject the advice of experts is to assert autonomy, a way for Americans to insulate their increasingly fragile egos from ever being told they’re wrong about anything.” Tom Nichols

Really the problem is we need more camping areas for families to enjoy. Playing video games and watching TV is bad, right? But really, all we need is a place like BarView. No paved spaces, not hanging on the edge of a cliff overlooking sensitive areas, just a place for us to camp and be comfy and safe, then we can explore from there.

I love the Nahalem. My uncle lives in Wheeler and I spend lots of $ and fish the bay and mushroom hunt and on and on. But I have Washington plates and so I am part of the problem, too. There is no better place for a sportsman than the Oregon Coast.

I absolutely object to the park. But build me some more campsites somewhere less sensitive! I don't care, as long as I can squeeze in my 6-pack (family)!

You are all on the right track! It's tough to be so close, yet have so little input on these issues.

So I want to first explain my connection to this area. The first "real" fishing trip (besides the worm and bobber at a pond) I every went on was at Nehalem bay in 1986. My family owes several homes in Manzanita and Nehalem, and we have been in the area for about 15 years. No one in my family except my brother and me actually fish. And he only gets out fishing a few times a year.

Two weekends ago we had a family gathering at our place in Manzanita, and decided to take my nephew (almost 3yrs old) fishing for his FIRST time, as a group. Cause if he doesn't learn about it with his family, he will learn it out there on the street somewhere

So the group headed up the Nehalem. All 8 adults (3 in our mid thirties, 5 - 60+ yrs old), packed up the car and headed out. We drove up the the Nehalem falls park and set up a picnic table. We looked around, and decided, this was a nice area for us to lose the little one over one of the cliffs. So we packed up and headed down stream. Not many options we could think of so we ended up stopping at Roy Creek county park. Not the best park in the State, many not even the best park in the area, but we made due and had a great time. We were there for 3 hours, and only saw the "camp host" (who seems upset we were even there). This was a Saturday afternoon and the temps were in the 70's. The little one enjoy fishing with his new "Simpsons" fishing pile, and he talked about it the rest of the weekend. His education in being a steward of the land had begun. It was one of the best days of my life. Spending time with my family and the next generation of outdoor lovers.

So, as I log onto IFISH for my lunch time distraction today I am excited to see a thread about a new park on the Nehalem. Wow! And it was even started by everyones favorite IFISH beauty- Jennie!

Then I realized, uh oh, its going to be a "not in my backyard" discussion. And a "we have more right to this area than THOSE people" and "why is MY government spending money THAT way, it should be spend THIS way."

I'm sure that that land would be better serve the "locals" if it were a 300 house development, with $500k houses going up. As I drove to Lincoln city last weekend with my girlfriend, driving north on 101, we approached Depot Bay. My better half comments "They are going to keep putting houses on that hill until its treeless and covered in homes we couldn't ever hope to own, aren't they?" Ummmm "yeah."

I won't even start the "sell it to timber interests" line of thought.

But I know thats not what you want. You want it left, untouched. Undeveloped. So only the "locals" get to enjoy it. Unfortunately my group of "locals" had a hard time finding a place to do that up there.

Our population is exploding. Our use of the land will change. Not because we want it to, but because it has too. Areas of vast undeveloped, and non-impacted space will and has started to decline. The "extra" space around our property, that we didn't own but felt a connection to, will now shared with others. I hate to admit that we need to have OUR government help with setting up priorities with land use. I do not like the many current situations and decisions OUR government is involved it. That is why: I vote, I get involved, I got voice my opinion to my elected officials.

At first glance, I would like a new park up there. But like was stated earlier, it needs to start with upgrading the road up there. And is this going to impact fish? We need to look at that too. Is there a place that needs a new park more? Maybe, lets look.

It does feel like that many decisions are final before "public comment" is registered. That is why we need to get involved, show up at meetings, elect officials that represent your views. And make sure officials who feel they are above public opinion are not re-elected.

I hope you get what you feel is the correct action for this area. If not, respect the decision. And then get out and vote for new representation.

Might as well throw my in the ring. I live on the Nehalem, but a ways upstream. My town is known for all its parks, 6 of them. We now have Stub Stewart and have had the Linear Trail and Big Eddy for a long time. The public needs access to parks and to our rivers. River access on the upper Nehalem is not good, same on the middle river. What I have seen over the years is a lot of people trying to use the lower river as a park by camping in wide spots. They usually leave a mess and cause problems with the ajoining landowners. The only way to correct that is to provide a park that is organized and patrolled. Nehalem Falls is a neat little park, maybe the new one could be a little more like that than a parking lot. People are wanting and are going to use the parks or adjacent lands, having a park helps pay for the enforcement to help keep from having messes and abuse to the natural resources.

I can see the issue with the road, that is a narrow road. Yep, we had a lot of people that protested the Linear Trail, but they have since been proven wrong. The worst offenders are not the quests, but the locals who ride their ATV's on the trail, nobody to blame but themselves.

I have often thought the entire lower river could use more organized camping areas, but maybe it would be better to have it more in one spot.

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"Rivers and the inhabitants of the watery elements are made for wise men to contemplate and for fools to pass without consideration."- Izaak Walton

Keep the area natural. People want to get AWAY from the asphalt...let them enjoy walking on the forest floor instead of an experience they can get in the Walmart parking lot.

Excellent thought GaryK that should be the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaver1

We looked around, and decided, this was a nice area for us to lose the little one over one of the cliffs. So we packed up and headed down stream. Not many options we could think of so we ended up stopping at Roy Creek county park.

If you had driven straight instead of cross the three c bridge you could have set your picnic table up with in spitting distance of cougar maries old house. Or at the mouth of Lost creek itself. Warning there are steep banks all along there.

Then I realized, uh oh, its going to be a "not in my backyard" discussion. And a "we have more right to this area than THOSE people" and "why is MY government spending money THAT way, it should be spend THIS way."

We are not asking for more rights, just some rights and some respect. Is that to much to ask for those people living here?

I'm sure that that land would be better serve the "locals" if it were a 300 house development, with $500k houses going up. As I drove to Lincoln city last weekend with my girlfriend, driving north on 101, we approached Depot Bay. My better half comments "They are going to keep putting houses on that hill until its treeless and covered in homes we couldn't ever hope to own, aren't they?" Ummmm "yeah."

The average wage in Tillamook County is around $28,000. The average highest wages are made by county and school district workers. You think the people that live here can afford those houses????? Let me know when you hear the popping noise.

I won't even start the "sell it to timber interests" line of thought.

Timber interests sold it to the state (Teevin Brothers)

But I know thats not what you want. You want it left, untouched. Undeveloped. So only the "locals" get to enjoy it. Unfortunately my group of "locals" had a hard time finding a place to do that up there.

Beaver1, just because you have a vacation house here doesn't make you a "local" but that doesn't matter. If your group of locals really were local you would know where you could go. Get out and explore drive down some side roads. Don't look for picnic tables, look for areas where you might say to yourself "hey, maybe we can get down to the river here" Your vehicle can drive to the same spots as mine. It is called scouting.

Our population is exploding. Our use of the land will change. Not because we want it to, but because it has too. Areas of vast undeveloped, and non-impacted space will and has started to decline.

So now that we have got the ball rolling we might as well wrap it all up.

The "extra" space around our property, that we didn't own but felt a connection to, will now shared with others. I hate to admit that we need to have OUR government help with setting up priorities with land use. I do not like the many current situations and decisions OUR government is involved it. That is why: I vote, I get involved, I got voice my opinion to my elected officials.

Glad you vote

At first glance, I would like a new park up there. But like was stated earlier, it needs to start with upgrading the road up there. And is this going to impact fish? We need to look at that too. Is there a place that needs a new park more? Maybe, lets look.

It does feel like that many decisions are final before "public comment" is registered. That is why we need to get involved, show up at meetings, elect officials that represent your views. And make sure officials who feel they are above public opinion are not re-elected.

I hope you get what you feel is the correct action for this area. If not, respect the decision. And then get out and vote for new representation.

I hope we get it also.

The soap box is now ready for the next in line.

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

There is indeed a park, an unimproved park not 300 acres of asphalt mini city.
What if they improved the Kilchis park to 300 acres of asphalt with all the amenities and put in a paved boat launch.

LOL... They have... and a year round host and a 2 dollar a day fee useage.
You should go see it. You won't believe it!

But, back to the issue at hand...

I'm very interested in hearing more about this park. I'm afraid to say to Bill that I don't think it should happen. When he came home the other night, he said to me, "You aren't saying that you don't like the park idea, too, are you?"

I just said that I wasn't informed. Bill's not going to be happy if I decide against said park, but.... Let's just say that I need to hear more on the subject.

Sorry, Bill...

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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Whoo hooo! What a Ride!”

And, frankly, when John (volunteer fireman) first told me of this park a year ago, I freaked out. "NOT THERE!" I yelled, and he said, "Yep, there."

My gut instinct is against it, but I do need to learn more. This is very interesting to hear from the other side. I hope Bill reads it, too.

__________________

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Whoo hooo! What a Ride!”

Bill told me "no motor homes" at the park and half of the spots are "hike in" camping.

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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Whoo hooo! What a Ride!”

I agree that I need to learn more before making up MY mind. Just discussing at this point.

Onelastcast:

-I agree that with a bit more scouting we could have found the perfect spot to spend the day, instead of spending the scouting with the grandparents and little child, we found a safe spot to spend some time together. My only point was another option would have been nice, thus my interest in this topic.

-I totally agree that as citizen you should have rights and respect when discussing development in your area.

-My housing comment was a bit sarcastic. I would hate for that to happen. I was bringing up the alternatives that this area could have been used for. As pointed out in the Depot Bay comments.

-Glad to see that the timber company made this land available for the public to secure. I had no idea where the land control had come from. As I said, I need more thought on this issue

-Not sure why you assumed our family was a "vacation" home family. There are many people who live here who aren't as involved with the natural surrounds outside of the sand on the beach and the sunshine on their back porches. I don't live in the area, but my family does. Not for the longest time, but for long enough to have a stake in what is going on.

-I know what scouting is. I have spent plenty of time scouting. I rarely take a 3 year old and my retired parents to climb down cliffs to find a nice place for a picnic.

-I can tell you are passionate about this subject and your response to my post was a bit of venting at the situation. But you got me all wrong. I believe you would find we see more eye to eye than you think. Next time I head down that way I'll buy you a beer and I can get the inside scope from someone more connected to the river and the situation. Tight lines!

Bill told me "no motor homes" at the park and half of the spots are "hike in" camping.

That is what they are currently saying. But one of the better quotes was from an elderly guy who we will just call Bob that used to do fish counts on lost creek, After about the third comment from the parks dept regarding improving stream habitat on Lost Creek he stood up and said "I have been doing fish counts on Lost Creek for years and you are talking about improving fish habitat in the Garden of Eden"

Instead we will concentrate a bunch of people whose kids, or they themselves, might think it fun to chase those spawning fish around, WOW if they just get a little bigger hook maybe they can hook one of those fish. If anyone has seen how the summer/fall chinook concentrate below the falls and in feeder streams in low water years that very image has to make you shudder.

I am sorry. I thought we worried about fish.

2 million to buy property, more than a million for improvements. Because people camp in undesignated areas and leave trash? How much would it cost to hire someone just to drive the road and pick up trash????

Looks like Portland is importing a Rural form of the TRAM.

__________________
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

I know this is my first post, but this is one topic that I really wanted to contribute to. I am somewhat new to steelhead fishing, but have really enjoyed exploring the Northern Oregon coastal rivers. One of my favorite places to fish is in the area this park is proposed to be developed. In my opinion, a park could either enhance or ruin what this area offers. Since this park would not be in my back yard, I won't say whether I think it's good or bad. I'll just provide a little information. After a quick search on Cougar Valley State Park, I found Oregon Parks and Recs Department's master draft plan for this park and Nehalem Bay State Park. The link is below.

Bill told me "no motor homes" at the park and half of the spots are "hike in" camping.

I am still waiting for the NW Steelheaders response. Did your organization sell the Nehalem valley out for 12 pieces of silver? Or, as a friend of mine from the valley says "sold out for 12 silvers". All for a boat launch that will not beat up your boats..........The beaver slide has been fine for years.

You guys are beginning to disgust me.

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

Hordes of campers descend on Pacific City on the surfing weekends and end up camping on the beach. The mess and human waste left behind is unbelievable. They can't understand why it is illegal. Do you want your kids playing around undeveloped camp sites or should we just lock up the woods to everyone except the locals?

I really doubt there is going to be any more impact there than at Spruce Run. At least there are toilet facilities.

Let's face it Tillamook! You have a very desireable county to live in and derive a lot of benefit from outside money. You can't hide anymore, right Jerry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyk

Keep the area natural. People want to get AWAY from the asphalt...let them enjoy walking on the forest floor instead of an experience they can get in the Walmart parking lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beaver1

But I know thats not what you want. You want it left, untouched. Undeveloped. So only the "locals" get to enjoy it. Unfortunately my group of "locals" had a hard time finding a place to do that up there.

Our population is exploding. Our use of the land will change. Not because we want it to, but because it has too. Areas of vast undeveloped, and non-impacted space will and has started to decline. The "extra" space around our property, that we didn't own but felt a connection to, will now shared with others.

There are some extremely compelling arguements on both sides of this issue.

I guess I come down on the same side as CH. If you don't build it they will come anyway and trash the joint.

Sure would be good to get some of the other area facilities and roads brought up to snuff before diving in head first with a brand new facility.

Those summer Chinook spawners must be allowed to so their thing in Crook unmolested. Restrictions on floating the spawning area and/or disturbing them by walking trails along the stream must be put in place.

Orderly outdoor enjoyment is a possibility. The recent ban of alcohol(coupled with enforcement) in parks near Portland has recently shown this can be done.

__________________If the rivers turn to blood and the sun is only at 2/3 output... you should probably bug out. -Squid and Bear ‘18

I have no feelings either way on this subject, but I would ask before you make comments or make up your minds, please make sure you have all the facts. Capt. Hook has some good points. Yes I agree Tillamook is a great place to visit, I did it for some 20 years, before I decided to move here. I love it and I think every one should have a chance to enjoy it. Sure there is about 5% of visitors that make it bad for others but most visitors are great to have. But as I said in an early post, I sure am glade I don't have to make those kind of decisions any more. JD

I am still waiting for the NW Steelheaders response. Did your organization sell the Nehalem valley out for 12 pieces of silver? Or, as a friend of mine from the valley says "sold out for 12 silvers". All for a boat launch that will not beat up your boats..........The beaver slide has been fine for years.

You guys are beginning to disgust me.

You crack me up. Sorry had others things to do then be "burned at the stake".

I in no way said that I was for or against--I only said that there were several ways to view the park and threw out a couple of thoughts, which in no way was an endorsement either way from the Steelheaders. I personally went to the meeting because I was asked to see what was happening. Anything that I wrote my opinion and mine alone. As I said on the first post I was interested in hearing what happened at the other meeting and hearing from Bill to see what he brought from it.

I just reread it again and I guess it was a little one sided so for that I apologize, but I would say that the web address has been posted so everyone should look at the proposals before they go off on a tirade.
I love the area and I love it the way that it is--what I am saying (personally) is that if it needs to get some attention to stay that way then we have to look at that option. There may be better ones. Hell.........I am willing to be educated as to what is going on down there, I just am interested in hearing all the angles.

OLC--When you can post a response saying that you have done as many habitat enhancement things as my single chapter (or me for that matter) then you can chuck me (and the Steelheaders) under the bus. Until then, I am willing to listen to whatever you have to say provided that it is enlightening-short of that............you fill in the blanks. BTW--I have no problems with the Beaverslide ramp, just the way it is.

My personal view is that I dont have enough information concerning the whole thing to form a firm opinion. I think there is going to be alot of revamps before it gets the green light, if it gets the green light. There are many areas of concern for me and apparently alot of other people so until those are rationally thought out--there is alot of work to be done

Peace

Todd Crawford

__________________
You dont get if you dont ask!!
TV Chapter NW Steelheaders/CCA
Team Brown Dawg!!

How about setting the area aside as a special "Primitive Recreation Area". No RV's, not asphalt, no ATV's. Manage it primarily for salmon and wildlife, and folks can enjoy the types of recreation that are most compatible with that designation.

However, something tells me there would be just as much opposition to that kind of proposal, since we'd be "locking the area up." I'm confused as to whether people are upset at seeing the area turned into a heavily developed park, or angry that people from Portland and elsewhere will start using it in increased numbers.

Oh, and on the Steelheaders... they represent members throughout Oregon. Not just the locals who enjoy the area now.

Personally, my questions would start with "if we don't go the park route, what will that area be like in 20 years?"

Population growth and developing IS hammering fish and wildlife habitat around the state, and Tillamook County is certainly no poster-child for responsible growth. Quite the opposite. If the choice is between seeing that area clear cut under the state forest plan, or making it a park, the park might be the best option for the fish.

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If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles. --Doug Larsen

For sale, Land on south fork newhalem river $2,000,000.00, We are going to fix the old parks first. Your state parks dept. spend $$$$ at 1. breakwater in the newhalem bay state park, 2. Reinstall the boat dock soon, If you need help call me 503-816-8042,will bring down whatever we need.3. buy the newhalem point housing area and make a park out of it. It has street's and view's of the the bay. If you < the stateparks people are not hearing this please call me and i will give you a FREE hearing aid>.

OLC--When you can post a response saying that you have done as many habitat enhancement things as my single chapter (or me for that matter) then you can chuck me (and the Steelheaders) under the bus. Until then, I am willing to listen to whatever you have to say provided that it is enlightening-short of that............you fill in the blanks.

AHH, the holier than thou post.

Who am I to compare my scars with someone that makes small children scream and old ladies faint at the mere glimpse of him.

I am nothing.

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

Let's keep this informative. If you can't discuss something without getting angry and insulting other people, don't post, please.
I know that this is a hot topic. I know that, because even the mayor said the "f" word! I still can't get over that!
Let's, however, try to work together on this, OK?

Jen

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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Whoo hooo! What a Ride!”

I read these posts and I am quite shocked. We no longer have sportsmen and woman any more ? The state is becoming the land of no use. People wine when someone is on their river or property owners who limit people who ask and are respectful. Let all look out for me me me.

Fishing is a great way to keep kids out of bad things. Make great memorys. We should be promoting fishing not bickering. WE keep loosing places for the public to use. Like my favorite river the nestucca. Did you know that the cloverdale ramp might be closed due to high rent. Did you know that 5 1/2 is almost gone. rock hole and three rivers could become unusable do to enviomental rules. Farmers is going to wash away with out work. Who cares ?? All the people who fish the nestucca will move north and make those river more crowed enjoy.

Life is about change !!! look for ways to make things better.

For those of you who keep snivaling and can't trace yor heritage back to six generations of oregoians please move out of state by dusk.

There are a lot of parks in the area already. Nehalem Falls is only a couple miles away, and it's run by the state (ODF). The county has one at Roy Creek. There's Spruce Run farther up the Nehalem along Foss Road. There are a ton of good sites up along Cook Creek, especially at Piatt Canyon where there are fire pits allowing fires even during most fire closures. There is nearly unlimited free dispersed camping available on state land throughout in the area -- you don't have hookups and be aware that outside of designated areas you can't have fires in most places during regulated use (fire danger -- look for big orange signs on the roads).

Lost Creek provides some important wintering habitat for elk and deer that use Lost Creek dainage. It's especially critical for elk. They stay down in the creek bottoms all winter long due to having poor quality winter forage thanks to all the rain and can't afford to expend a lot of energy (info source ODFW). Past experiences indicate the elk will either avoid the people and the park and the forage they need and die, or become a problem and ODFW will be pressured into issuing emergency tags to keep them out (read kill them).

The state park will allow some fishing in the Nehalem River -- for a day use fee. Despite comments in posts claiming a lot of fishing activity, there's not a lot of good bank fishing along the east bank in that particular stretch anyway. The Foss road side has much better access. With one exception the area within the proposed park is not the best of places. Most people actually bank fish off Anderson Creek road down below Cook Creek and not just because of the no trespassing signs where the park will be. It has better access.

After 17 years of patrolling that area as part of fire protection and talking to countless people, I've learned that the majority of the people camping in thurnouts and such along Foss Road aren't interested in paying to camp anyway. A park will do nothing with that issue.

I don't have a problem with camping in my backyard. It goes on every day. Camping is free and you can do it year around in the state forest. Just be nice to people, be respectful of the forest, follow the common sense laws, and pack out your trash.

I don't think a state park buys us much of anything in Lost Creek, other than adding some RV hookups and losing a ton of critical wintering habitat. If RV hookups are that important, they could be situated along Foss Road at the old CCC camp where the ODF fire guard station used to be. That actually provides good river access and wouldn't take away habitat, has a paved road, has power, is just up the river, and it belongs to the state.

Oh boy! Where do I start? I did indeed go to the meeting in Manzanita last Monday. Master Planner Ron Campbell did an awesome job of keeping the meeting rolling and maintaining his composure in spite of an unruly crowd of vociferous, sometimes cussing, naysayers which I would estimate to have been 95% against any new park at Couger Valley. Some, I believe, feel that the S. Fork Nehalem is their private and secret river.

I live on the Kilchis River on the road to the county park which is, with its recent improvements, probably as large as the proposed Couger Valley Park as to total capacity. Couger Valley is proposed to be a tent camping format with half the sites requiring hike in access and no RV facilities. We do have substantially increased traffic flow in the summer camping months, but not so much as to enrage me. Our Tillamook County Road Dept. does a pretty good job of maintaining this county road in spite of its already overburdened budget. I am concerned, however, that the improvements appropriate to improve and maintain the Foss Road for the new park would put a huge burden on us taxpayers throughout the county.

Capt. Hook made some good points from the perspective of a retired, but sometimes part time State Police Officer of many years as to the problems generated by volumes of people camping in non- organized unimproved sites along the roads and otherwise in "the wild". We cannot put our heads in the sand and deny that our population growth in the Northwest should be dealt with.

I didn't hear much talk about the economic benefits to the area of money coming in and being left here by the increased tourism.

Many of the naysayers cried out that a camping park at Couger Valley would ruin "the salmon run" in the Nehalem because of such things as kids swimming in Lost Creek in the summer. Are not those people (many of whom don't fish at all) aware that the fall chinooks don't enter the creek until the weather goes downhill and the water comes up and the campers stay home? Also, fall chinook fry are out of the creek and down in tidewater and the bay by the time the campers return for the next summer. Yes, there are coho, cutthroat, and steelhead also present in Lost Creek which spend 1-2+ years in freshwater before outmigrating, but their numbers are not so important to the Nehalem system as the fall chinook of Lost Creek and the impact of campers to the lower 1/4 mile of the creek seems minimal at worst.

It was asked what the position of the Northwest Steelheaders on the proposed park is. Our North Coast Chapter voted in a meeting this spring to take NO position on the park issue, rather to monitor it for later consideration. I cannot speak for the association as a whole, but have seen no indication that a position is being taken at this time.

Personally, I feel the park might be a good thing overall, with some reservations. My own agenda is the issue of a badly needed alternative for launching drift boats to the existing "Beaver Slide" just downriver which is lacking parking potential as well is a general pain in the rear for launching.

Oh boy! Where do I start? I did indeed go to the meeting in Manzanita last Monday. Master Planner Ron Campbell did an awesome job of keeping the meeting rolling and maintaining his composure in spite of an unruly crowd of vociferous, sometimes cussing, naysayers which I would estimate to have been 95% against any new park at Couger Valley. Some, I believe, feel that the S. Fork Nehalem is their private and secret river.

I live on the Kilchis River on the road to the county park which is, with its recent improvements, probably as large as the proposed Couger Valley Park as to total capacity. Couger Valley is proposed to be a tent camping format with half the sites requiring hike in access and no RV facilities. We do have substantially increased traffic flow in the summer camping months, but not so much as to enrage me. Our Tillamook County Road Dept. does a pretty good job of maintaining this county road in spite of its already overburdened budget. I am concerned, however, that the improvements appropriate to improve and maintain the Foss Road for the new park would put a huge burden on us taxpayers throughout the county.

Capt. Hook made some good points from the perspective of a retired, but sometimes part time State Police Officer of many years as to the problems generated by volumes of people camping in non- organized unimproved sites along the roads and otherwise in "the wild". We cannot put our heads in the sand and deny that our population growth in the Northwest should be dealt with.

I didn't hear much talk about the economic benefits to the area of money coming in and being left here by the increased tourism.

Many of the naysayers cried out that a camping park at Couger Valley would ruin "the salmon run" in the Nehalem because of such things as kids swimming in Lost Creek in the summer. Are not those people (many of whom don't fish at all) aware that the fall chinooks don't enter the creek until the weather goes downhill and the water comes up and the campers stay home? Also, fall chinook fry are out of the creek and down in tidewater and the bay by the time the campers return for the next summer. Yes, there are coho, cutthroat, and steelhead also present in Lost Creek which spend 1-2+ years in freshwater before outmigrating, but their numbers are not so important to the Nehalem system as the fall chinook of Lost Creek and the impact of campers to the lower 1/4 mile of the creek seems minimal at worst.

It was asked what the position of the Northwest Steelheaders on the proposed park is. Our North Coast Chapter voted in a meeting this spring to take NO position on the park issue, rather to monitor it for later consideration. I cannot speak for the association as a whole, but have seen no indication that a position is being taken at this time.

Personally, I feel the park might be a good thing overall, with some reservations. My own agenda is the issue of a badly needed alternative for launching drift boats to the existing "Beaver Slide" just downriver which is lacking parking potential as well is a general pain in the rear for launching.

Oh boy, here's where I start >>>>
I don't know how to post links. Maybe someone can research this and post the link ?
The local Tillamook newspaper, The Headlight Herald had a totally unbiased report of the Manzanita meeting on this subject.
It might be a good thing to have those interested be able to read what was printed in the paper.

I value everyone's opinions !
What a dull boring existence it would be if we were ALL the same in ALL ways.
Every situation like this has pros and cons and multiple solutions offered.
Hopefully, what happens here has the best outcome for the land and the eco-system !

Jim Hall aka dawgsalmon, RMEF Life Member, OHA Life Member and a proud member of the Nehalem River Valley Protection Coalition.

__________________
"Half the people can be part right all of the time, And some of the people can be all right part of the time, But all the people can't be all right all of the time."Abraham Lincoln

Some, I believe, feel that the S. Fork Nehalem is their private and secret river.

I get so tired of hearing this so everyone read up. Leaving Portland head Westerly on Highway 26 to junction with hwy 53Southerly on 53 to junction of Miami-Foley RoadSouthWesterly on Miami Foley Road to junction with Foss RoadTravel along Foss Road Until you cross the CCC bridgeif you turn right your heading to Lost, Cook, Anderson creeksif you stay on main road you are heading forNehalem FallsSalmonberry River Spruce Run CampgroundAll roads are public and can be found on any map of the areasome river land is private but alot is public

Whew.........now that's not a secret anymore

Our Tillamook County Road Dept. does a pretty good job of maintaining this county road in spite of its already overburdened budget. I am concerned, however, that the improvements appropriate to improve and maintain the Foss Road for the new park would put a huge burden on us taxpayers throughout the county.

I also am very concerned about that. Look at the condition of Necarney City County Road that leads to Nehalem Bay State Park. Lots and Lots of park usage but no help from the State to repair the road. It is our baby. And we have a year respite before we are cut back to 40% of the current road budget. So if we keep paving roads for the state parks other county roads will go wanting.

I didn't hear much talk about the economic benefits to the area of money coming in and being left here by the increased tourism.

For 30 years I have watched this state tout tourism and it's economic benefits while we cover the very thing we love with asphalt and picnic benches. Well fire up the kilns and mix the paint and we can double the production of ceramic seagulls and painted sanddollars and sit at the corner hoping someone will stop and open their wallet. Meanwhile as Beavr1 and I discussed 500k houses are being built while the locals "it's trailers on the outskirts of town". (actually the last line was stolen from the song Boomtown by Greg Brown, excellent

Many of the naysayers cried out that a camping park at Couger Valley would ruin "the salmon run" in the Nehalem because of such things as kids swimming in Lost Creek in the summer. Are not those people (many of whom don't fish at all) aware that the fall chinooks don't enter the creek until the weather goes downhill and the water comes up and the campers stay home? Also, fall chinook fry are out of the creek and down in tidewater and the bay by the time the campers return for the next summer. Yes, there are coho, cutthroat, and steelhead also present in Lost Creek which spend 1-2+ years in freshwater before outmigrating, but their numbers are not so important to the Nehalem system as the fall chinook of Lost Creek and the impact of campers to the lower 1/4 mile of the creek seems minimal at worst.

Living on a river you know how it works. We get a shot rain in September, lasting a week, the fish shoot, the rain stops and we get 4 weeks of Indian summer, trapping fish in the deeper pools etc. Some times the fish decide even without rain they have got to go so they will try it any. At least that's how it works behind my house.

It was asked what the position of the Northwest Steelheaders on the proposed park is. Our North Coast Chapter voted in a meeting this spring to take NO position on the park issue, rather to monitor it for later consideration. I cannot speak for the association as a whole, but have seen no indication that a position is being taken at this time.

I am really glad about that.

Personally, I feel the park might be a good thing overall, with some reservations. My own agenda is the issue of a badly needed alternative for launching drift boats to the existing "Beaver Slide" just downriver which is lacking parking potential as well is a general pain in the rear for launching.

I understand and can respect that.

We have got a beautiful area that is an elk wintering are, has several prime spawning streams, next to a river that is in noway supported by hatchery fish, it is accessible to ALL of us as we speak. I cannot see that concentrating 50 campsites, say 100 people plus support staff in a sensitive area like that can do anything but cause harm.

Push the parks department to speed up expansion of the existing Nehalem Bay state Park. Camp there and then go up and fish Lost Creek.

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It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have all been fooled. Mark Twain

Thanks OLC for posting the link !!!
I hope some that have posted will read it and see the UN-BIASED report on the meeting !

It really scares me when OUR Government puts the cart before the horse.
Why would they buy property for a park, anywhere, without conducting a few studies first ?? I mean, after all, this is OUR State Government and they usually want to study things to death !

Why was NO Ecological Survey done, prior to the purchase ?
Why didn't they consult with ODFW, prior to the purchase ?
Why didn't they contact some of the people that live in the general area, prior to the purchase ?
Why didn't they contact the Tillamook County Commisioners, to find out if they had any concerns, prior to the purchase ?
Why didn't they contact the Mayors of Manzanita, Nehalem and Wheeler about any concerns they might have, prior to the purchase ?

There are many ways to look at the whole picture, but in my view; IT STINKS !!

Whatever happened to common sense and logic in our society ??? Their is NONE of either involved in this decision at this point !!!

__________________
"Half the people can be part right all of the time, And some of the people can be all right part of the time, But all the people can't be all right all of the time."Abraham Lincoln

Tillamook County is pressing the Forestry Department to ramp up the cut on Tillamook and Clatsop State Forests beyond the levels allowed under the current forest management plan (which many feel already does not do enough to protect habitat for salmon and steelhead).

__________________
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles. --Doug Larsen

Tillamook County is pressing the Forestry Department to ramp up the cut on Tillamook and Clatsop State Forests beyond the levels allowed under the current forest management plan (which many feel already does not do enough to protect habitat for salmon and steelhead).

Yep, just like the folks who backed measure 34 said would happen, Tillamook County is pressing for accelerated harvest of our state forest.

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salmon hugger

"A curious thing happens when fish stocks decline: People who aren't aware of the old levels accept the new ones as normal. Over generations, societies adjust their expectations downward to match prevailing conditions." Kennedy Warne

"A curious thing happens when fish stocks decline: People who aren't aware of the old levels accept the new ones as normal. Over generations, societies adjust their expectations downward to match prevailing conditions." Kennedy Warne

Let's get back to what we know about things and why we feel the way we do. I for one, want to learn... not fight.

There are lots of things for everyone to learn, here. I refuse to close this thread, but I will be keeping a good eye on it.

If someone slams you personally, please alert the mods with this symbol:

DO NOT respond to it, or you will be infracted. Thanks,
Jen

__________________

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Whoo hooo! What a Ride!”

NI do feel we need more places for the population. The joke about sunset was to my eailer post about 6 generations oregonian. not tring to break rules but this post has had no balance we either say me me me or save the enviroment to keep people out. Deep down all these posts look like bickering? Please let me know Thank you.