Jan Van Quirm wrote: where's this about the Pope being chosen by god come from?

In the same way that the Bible was written by men, but is the word of God. He has a hand in everything.

Jan Van Quirm wrote:they're still men and women with all their fallibilities, prejudices and shortcomings which admittedly they try to rise above to do god's work supposedly. Nobody believes the man that's currently Pope is literally chosen by god - he's the 'best' person that's electable to the post by the College of Cardinals.

The Pope is infallible actually - everything he does is sanctioned by God. So the choice of men is completely removed from the equation, according to the men involved in the choosing. What we believe as outsiders doesn't matter.

That's what god's there for - to blame for being infallible and letting people like Roderigo Borgia or Savonarola and Torquemada and all the other reactionary megalomaniacs rise like them to the top of shit creek. The church has always been about politics, even and especially when Jesus was around, so why wouldn't the Pope be like any other politician whether they're dynastic by hereditary means or institutional ones.

I didn't ask to be brought up a Catholic but I was never told that the Pope's infallible, just that he's god's representative on earth, so don't try to tell us he's seen as some kind of demi-god by the poor saps who do happen to eat it all up. People aren't quite that stupid which is why the Vatican didn't stay on the 6000 yr old Earth and no dinosaurs band wagon too long and why they're now finally thinking about letting the faithful wear something during sex occasionally. It's not all irrational fundies thumping tambourines and lapping up all the shit about hell and brimstone and singing 'la-la-la I'm not listening' about the less than palatable realities of what a nonsense the Church's 'caring, concerned role' in the secular community of social care has been over the last century

Ratzinger didn't get to be Pope until he was nearly 80, so up until then he wasn't infallible and people aren't that bloody stupid. At the end of the day the College of Cardinals are also exceptionally good at seeing which way the wind is blowing the black or white smoke - they know they're in shit creek and this stepping down is one of the signs that they know how much paddling they're going to have to do to keep it all from slipping away from them.

"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw

Jan Van Quirm wrote:I didn't ask to be brought up a Catholic but I was never told that the Pope's infallible, just that he's god's representative on earth, so don't try to tell us he's seen as some kind of demi-god by the poor saps who do happen to eat it all up.

You've never heard of papal infallibility? I've never been a Catholic, and I've heard of it. It doesn't mean he's perfect, just that he's never wrong about doctrine, whatever that doctrine is, including dinosaurs or whatever. The fact that the church changes it's mind on such matters just shows what a complete load of balls it all is, and yet the sheep are eating it all up. Even if he's not speaking infallibly, the 'poor saps' will most certainly eat it all up. He is the Catholic church!

Jan Van Quirm wrote:People aren't quite that stupid

Do you live in a cave, or what? If they'll believe in a mythical sky pixie, they'll believe in anything.

Whether or not this happens depends on what the next pope thinks. He's never wrong about these things, remember?

Jan Van Quirm wrote:Ratzinger didn't get to be Pope until he was nearly 80, so up until then he wasn't infallible

No, which is why we can excuse his behaviour, but also why his behaviour makes him unsuitable for the job. If he'd worked as a prostitue rather than starve to death, would we judge him? I wouldn't. Would they let him be pope? They wouldn't, and shouldn't.

Jan Van Quirm wrote:people aren't that bloody stupid.

Woman you crack me up. You were joking, right?

What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!

Jan Van Quirm wrote: where's this about the Pope being chosen by god come from? The Pope's chosen by the College of Cardinals as 'First among Equals'. The only Pope chosen by god (Jesus) was the first one - Peter.

The principle of apostolic succession means that all popes since have been chosen by Jesus (God).

What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!

Well if you want to quote out of context The Pope's only infallible when he says he is - as in this from the same article

BBC/Religion wrote:Once the Pope has spoken, the First Vatican Council agreed, his definitions "are irreformable of themselves".Voting on this form of words took place during a thunderstorm. A majority gave their assent but God, some said, was angry.Routine papal teaching is not therefore infallible and it was not until 1950 that a pope exercised his "infallible magisterium" to declare that the Virgin Mary had been assumed body and soul into heaven. The belief is unsupported in scripture.Pope John Paul II spoke infallibly once: in 1994 he ruled out the possibility of women ever being ordained and furthermore decreed that Catholics should not even talk about the issue any more. To date (2009) Pope Benedict XVI has not spoken infallibly.

And I don't think there's been any since the women priests one. By issuing the general apology for past child abuse the Church have inherently admitted that those responsible were wrong and so not infallible.

As for mythical sky pixies - well whatever works for you and makes you happy. It doesn't do it for me but some people prefer being told what to do, even if they're not nazis

"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw

Jan Van Quirm wrote:The Pope's only infallible when he says he is - as in this from the same article

I know, Jano honey, that's why I said this:

Dotsie wrote:You've never heard of papal infallibility? I've never been a Catholic, and I've heard of it. It doesn't mean he's perfect, just that he's never wrong about doctrine, whatever that doctrine is, including dinosaurs or whatever.

And why I posted the article for your information. So the pope is infallible on matters of doctrine - just because Ratzinger hasn't put his foot down about anything, doesn't mean it isn't still the case, and that his flock of sheep won't still believe every word out of his mouth

I don't particularly mind being told what to do, if I'm at work or following the rules for some reason (yes I do sometimes do what I'm told, I'm not an anarchist ). But I won't be given instructions on what to eat (except by a dietician), what to wear (except by Gok), when I'm allowed to have sex (except by Mr Dotsie), and what I'm allowed to do when I'm menstruating (although some of those tampon adverts can be quite persuasive when it comes to extreme sports).

What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!