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Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?

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Mar 3, 2017, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Care to actually frame a question correctly in the first place rather than make everyone guess at your intent?

The question was framed just fine. I said "immigration" when you wanted to see "travel." The spirit of my question was obvious and you've successfully derailed the conversation and avoided having to answer the question, so bravo on that one.

Women and children crossing together illegally into the United States could be separated by U.S. authorities under a proposal being considered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to three government officials.

The policy shift would allow the government to keep parents in custody while they contest deportation or wait for asylum hearings. Children would be put into protective custody with the Department of Health and Human Services, in the "least restrictive setting" until they can be taken into the care of a U.S. relative or state-sponsored guardian.

The question was framed just fine. I said "immigration" when you wanted to see "travel." The spirit of my question was obvious and you've successfully derailed the conversation and avoided having to answer the question, so bravo on that one.

I'm so glad you guys have never berated me for not admitting when I **** up, that would make this awkward, right? So now that that's out of the way, could you help me by pointing out said immigration restrictions? I wasn't aware of a ban on visa submissions.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

That's a bald-faced lie, it's a reaction to what citizens from those countries have done in other parts of the world and their continued support of terrorist organizations. Politifact has really been scraping the bottom lately, they desperately need a new editorial staff, it's a real shame what it's become.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

I fail to see the difference between Trump's and Obama's. Not that it matters in the least.

I don't support the ban, but the FUD, misinformation, and hysteria the reaction to it has created has been downright depressing - mostly because it looks like the most vocal and hysterical of those protesting it are also the least intelligent and least informed. I guess that's how the media makes their money though.

I fail to see the difference between Trump's and Obama's. Not that it matters in the least.

I don't support the ban, but the FUD, misinformation, and hysteria the reaction to it has created has been downright depressing - mostly because it looks like the most vocal and hysterical of those protesting it are also the least intelligent and least informed. I guess that's how the media makes their money though.

So from what you've read above, or anywhere else, you genuinely believe Obama indefinitely banned ALL TRAVEL from SEVEN COUNTRIES like Trump did? Really? Because that's what you have to believe to 'fail to see the difference.'

Well, that's not what Obama did. At all. So you're lacking either in intellectual honestly or basic reading comprehension. Sorry to be harsh, but really dude, there's no other choices here.

So from what you've read above, or anywhere else, you genuinely believe Obama indefinitely banned ALL TRAVEL from SEVEN COUNTRIES like Trump did? Really? Because that's what you have to believe to 'fail to see the difference.'

Put your strawman away brother, not needed here.

I fail to see a material difference between Obama banning travel from one country and Trump banning travel from 7. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I don't think the ban was a good move, either way.

Well, that's not what Obama did. At all. So you're lacking either in intellectual honestly or basic reading comprehension. Sorry to be harsh, but really dude, there's no other choices here.

I'm sorry brother, but your lack of rationality here does not make me intellectually dishonest or unable to read. The fact you would even suggest such just demonstrates your inability to bring rationality into this discussion, and that you wouldn't accept a logical or well founded argument even if it was shoved up your ass - your head is in the way.

I'm sorry brother, but your lack of rationality here does not make me intellectually dishonest or unable to read. The fact you would even suggest such just demonstrates your inability to bring rationality into this discussion, and that you wouldn't accept a logical or well founded argument even if it was shoved up your ass - your head is in the way.

His MO is to wedge in those personal attacks, he seems to take it as a personal affront that anyone dares to disagree with him, making reasonable conversation impossible.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

I fail to see a material difference between Obama banning travel from one country and Trump banning travel from 7. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I don't think the ban was a good move, either way.

I'm sorry brother, but your lack of rationality here does not make me intellectually dishonest or unable to read. The fact you would even suggest such just demonstrates your inability to bring rationality into this discussion, and that you wouldn't accept a logical or well founded argument even if it was shoved up your ass - your head is in the way.

So is your argument that what Trump has done is the same as what Obama did, with the only, and non-material difference, being a matter of scale? That is not a logical or well founded argument. That's a statement of belief that does not square with the facts.

Again, Obama TEMPORARILY halted PROCESSING REFUGEES from ONE COUNTRY based on SPECIFIC INTELLIGENCE of a MATERIAL THREAT.

Trump INDEFINITELY banned ALL TRAVEL from SEVEN COUNTRIES with NO INTELLIGENCE JUSTIFICATION.

The issue is not if you think one or the other was a good idea, but if they are materially different. If you can't recognise the massive difference in both scale and motivation, I can't come up with anything beyond a wilful desire to ignore reality.

Person A: States reasonable point of view.
Person B: States unreasonable point of view.
Person A: Your point of view is unreasonable. Either you know this or you don't. It logically follows that if you know, you're being an asshole and if you don't then you're an idiot.
Person B: If you're going to make personal attacks then we can't have a reasonable discussion.

Sometimes the possibility of reasonable discussion stops with the unreasonable point of view. Especially if its held by someone who knows its unreasonable.

I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....

I have a simple question. If that same rape had been committed by US citizens ... something which happens on a daily basis unfortunately ... would one be similarly outraged? Because if one is more outraged because the perpetrator was an "illegal immigrant" then perhaps one needs to examine their underlying motivations.

I think the general idea is it wouldn't have happened if he wasn't here. I agree with the sentiment but you'd have to show it was preventable. Was he a 'bad hombre' prior to tjthis s? If so, I wish he'd been deported instead of the OP.

I think Thomas, who's kind of a jerk IMO, is conflating two different questions.

Even though I'm radically pro-immigration, I can see the argument there should be penalties for evading the system. Were our system just, I myself would be far more inclined to play hardball with those who disrespected the law.

That's a different question for how a minor who disrespects immigration laws gets treated. A minor with a parent who's legally living here.

In a scenario like this, during the months it usually takes to process a deportation case, what's usually going to make the most sense is to release them into the custody of their parent, not lock them up.

Abandoning this guideline is not an argument I can see. Certainly not from a single data point.

^^ Indeed. That's a case of assholes on the Left deciding to punish someone by misusing the system, similar to how IRS procedures were abused not long ago, then regressives sit back and laugh and mock those being persecuted under wrongful detainment and or prosecution. Real winners, there.

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr

I have a simple question. If that same rape had been committed by US citizens ... something which happens on a daily basis unfortunately ... would one be similarly outraged? Because if one is more outraged because the perpetrator was an "illegal immigrant" then perhaps one needs to examine their underlying motivations.

OAW

If two adults (18 and 17 y/o) were enrolled as freshman, and then took turns raping a 14 year old girl in the bathroom, you're damned right I would be similarly outraged.

If this happens on a daily basis, can you please find me an example from 2017? Remember, this happened during school hours on a school property, where attendance is compulsory as a matter of law.

My problem isn't with them being immigrants, it's with them gang-raping a 14 year old girl who by rights (and by law) they never should have met, much less had an opportunity to rape in a bathroom.

When I said "daily basis" I meant rapes in general. Not the specific circumstances of it occurring to a 14 year old in a school bathroom as in this case. But looking back on it I can see how when I used the phrase "same rape" that one might not get that from my words. I should have been more precise. That being said, I have no objections to the sentiment you expressed above. Because I share it.

So, we have a grand total of two examples where people aren't following the administration guidelines, therefore this is what the administration wants as opposed to what they put in writing?

We're back in that situation where you seem to be giving generous benefit of the doubt. You don't strike me as the type of person who would take what a politician says (or writes) at face value, but here you are doing that for Trump again.

I might remind you that we only have these two cases because they got picked up by the news. It's not like we have ICE self reporting here. But we have seen news of more aggressive enforcement, like picking up undocumented at courthouses or removing a person with a brain tumor from a hospital.

Tell me, how many more examples do I need to dig up to change your mind?