EVENTS

The demonic flinging of chocolates!

This happy pope, as it turns out, is also an old school believer in Satan, and has encouraged more interest in exorcism. He recently sponsored a conference for exorcists, which brought a lot of goofy old cranks out of the closet.

During the conference, the Rev. Cesar Truqui, an exorcist based in Switzerland, recounted one experience he had aboard a Swissair flight. “Two lesbians,” he said, had sat behind him on the plane. Soon afterward, he said, he felt Satan’s presence. As he silently sought to repel the evil spirit through prayer, one of the women, he said, began growling demonically and threw chocolates at his head.

Asked how he knew the woman was possessed, he said that “once you hear a Satanic growl, you never forget it. It’s like smelling Margherita pizza for the first time. It’s something you never forget.”

Well, that made me hungry. Now my stomach is growling satanically.

But that wasn’t the funniest story in the article. This one wins the grand prize:

But by focusing on old-school interpretations of the Devil, some progressive theologians complain, the pope is undermining his reputation as a leader who in so many other ways appears to be more in step with modern society than his predecessor.

“He is opening the door to superstition,” said Vito Mancuso, a Catholic theologian and writer.

A Catholic theologian complaining about superstition? I needed a good laugh this morning.

And yet i suspect that the other people on that plane didn’t go home thinking “i just heard Satan growl”.
I bet that priest that something more than just pray….those two women took offense for some reason and i suspect it was a very good reason too. Of course even if he had pointed a finger at them and screamed “uncleaaaaaaaaan” i’m certain he would then deny that he did anything to elicit the flinging of chocolates.

I may be risking my neck by admitting to having some affection for the less harmful aspects of religion, but these stories did make me laugh/wince. The second reminded me of the case of the Bishop of Durham from the 1980s who was alleged to have denied the literal truth of the resurrection narrative and regarded as bonkers as a consequence. What, Christ didn’t actually come back to life three days after his death? Imagine that!

“Two lesbians,” he said, had sat behind him on the plane. Soon afterward, he said, he felt Satan’s presence. As he silently sought to repel the evil spirit through prayer, one of the women, he said, began growling demonically and threw chocolates at his head.

Asked how he knew the woman was possessed, he said that “once you hear a Satanic growl, you never forget it. It’s like smelling Margherita pizza for the first time. It’s something you never forget.”

If only us heathens were so lucky.

Though if I was sitting in front of two lesbians and one of them started growling demonically and throwing chocolates at me I don’t think I would forget it either. Worse, I might even start praying for her to keep doing that (that’s what prayer is for, right?)–anything to make the flight go faster.

Of course it is, it’s paganism and witchcraft. It’s funny how they will dismisssuch things are utter non-sense but then become extremely worried when they see it. It’s like someone insisting that there is absolutely no reason to fear a tiger because it’s not real and couldn’t possibly do you any harm and then going into a panic and fetching their riffle when they see something with stripes.

Meanwhile, kissing a piece of carboard with an image of the virgin Mary for luck is completely rational and not witchcraft at all.

So it seems this devil is not very powerful given all he can do is make people fling chocolates. Does he say whether it was dark chocolate or not? maybe we should all go and start flinging chocolate at the vatican. although I’m not so good at growling. I will have to bring my cats because the smell of their spit would add a nice glaze to the chocolates.

That’s the way he tells the story, but I’ll bet there is a lot more to it than that. I’ll bet he spent half the flight using exaggerated body language to make it clear to the girls that he disapproved of them and the prayer was the last straw. So they threw a chocolate at his head as if to say, “We don’t need no stinkin’ prayers.”

I’ll make sure to carry a large jawbreaker in case I’m ever possessed by Satan on a flight stuck behind two moralizing cranks whose “silent” prayers were likely pious posturing of the sort where God cannot hear them but the pilot sure as fuck can.

It has to be said, so I might as well be the one to say it: This new campaign of the Pope now warning us against the danger to our souls emanating from the Father of Lies inevitably seems like a shrewd political move calculated to gather the fearful faithful back into the fetid embrace of the Church. Conceivably he wants to lock horns with Beelzebub from personal conviction, but then it’s the cardinals who voted for who must be accused of cynicism, since they must have known what he was like.
It would be hilarious, albeit in a very dark way, if the pope came out and said:”Yes, all this child abuse conspiracy, that was the work of Satan polluting priests nuns, bishops and cardinals ( and possibly one or two of my saintly predecessors just slightly ) mind and soul. We must exorcise the fucker out of the Church before we do anything else.”
That would be a criminally pathetic attempt to deal with the guilt: the Devil made us do it. But resurrecting the Devil is an order of magnitude worse than that; it’s externalizing the guilt and pretending once again that evil is something outside the Church that the Church is fighting against. How could the Pope possibly justify talking about the ill-effects of Satan and his diabolically wily ways, if he’s not going to at least voice the question: were all the clergy who were culpable in all this vast crime against the children of the World, victims of some Satanic delusion or possession? It would be criminally pathetic as I say; but it would be something.

The only thing different about Frankie is that he’s a Franciscan; there has never before been a Franciscan pope.

The Order of Friars Minor has always, since its founding, been an advocate of poverty and helping those in need. That is where most of Frankie’s views on economic social justice come from.

However, the Franciscan point of view is that humans are unrelentingly evil and in desperate need of salvation which, naturally, only obedience to the Roman Catholic Church. This view, and the self-proclaimed holiness of the Franciscan lifestyle, means that many of the Church’s exorcists come from a Franciscan background.

It would be interesting to see how many secular priests were at this conference, and how many came from religious orders, and which orders were represented.

But by focusing on old-school interpretations of the Devil, some progressive theologians complain, the pope is undermining his reputation as a leader who in so many other ways appears to be more in step with modern society than his predecessor.

Translation: You were doing so well, getting the rubes to believe that you were all modern and reasonable. Why would you go and ruin that by being honest about how you really think? Don’t you remember why we elected you in the first place?

I guess Catholics believe in micro-Satanism – Satan goes around possessing individuals one by one physical growls, contortions and all, which have to be individually exorcized as shown in so many Hollywood movies. Protestants believe in macro-Satanism, Satan demonizes and possesses whole nations for not supporting school prayer, opposing gay marriage and homosexuality or refusing to believe in Jesus. So we have another micro vs macro battle on our hands.

A few weeks ago, there was a TV promo for one of those “Bigfoot Hunter” programs (don’t know which one, there are so many of them). Two guys in the middle of the woods at night, and you hear an unearthly screaching/growling sound — would have scared the brown out of my pants. The two guys looked at each other and one said excitedly, “THAT’S A SQUATCH!”

No. That’s a mountain lion. I’d get out of that dark patch of woods if I were you.

Actually, the whole idea of demonic possession is worrisome. It diverts people from getting medical help for their medical problems. The article says a psychiatric evaluation is done before an exorcism is done. However, it puts the idea out there that people have demonic possession rather than focusing on all the possible medical causes of a person’s illness. Also, some people would rather believe they need an exorcism rather than having a mental illness. Does Pope Francis condemn that woman, Helen U(forget her last name) for talking about demonic possession and getting people to torture and kill their children?

A Catholic theologian complaining about superstition?</blockquote?
But of course you know why don't you? [chuckle … chuckle] Any belief outside the Church’s dogma is by (Catholic) definition superstition. Anything NOT theirs is, to them, EVIL. Why do you think they have so many names for Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, … Each was a separate Pagan (non-Catholic) God, that the Catholic declared to be another incarnation of the “Fallen Angel” who was trying to masquerade behind a different name. (to try to scare _those_ followers, to leave and join Catholicism)
Either that, or they will adopt it as all their own that others were just using it first by happenstance [lookin at you, Easter & Christmas]. ahem, cough, cough ||| in summary, They are accusing him of encouraging those OTHER beliefs, his job is to encourage only the Catholic beliefs, and people might wander away from The Church trying out the Other Stuff. And don’t you dare call Catholic beliefs “superstitions”, easy for someone outside to label different things with the same label, without knowing the real MEANING of the word.

So the Satan chaser has his wine and has to finish it all up because you cannot leave any wine around after the Mass. It has to be finished right up. Priests always make sure they have enough extra wine, you know, just in case. So… the Satan chaser finishes up his blood and boards a flight and of course lesbians and flying chocolates follow him and there is growling-and-shit. This is called attitude sic-ness and often involves the smell of pizza. I have experienced it. In my case, it involved twin priests and me. I am sure they were homosexuals because they were two men. Together. See?

Why do you think they have so many names for Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, … Each was a separate Pagan (non-Catholic) God,

Is Satan, then, derived from the Roman god, Saturn? I’ve wondered about that from time to time, but I couldn’t find any reference to it. Which seems rather odd, because the two words seem like virtual homophones, at least as we pronounce them nowadays. Can anybody enhance my understanding?

I just read that a film version of Kadrey’s “Sandman Slim” novels may be in the works.

I hope the director pounces of the opportunity to include this scene!

— — — —
(excerpt)
Stark; “What you have described so far could be anything from bad acid to a brain tumor. When did you start to suspect there was something supernatural?”
Exorcism customer: “When I found him hovering in the air”
— — —
BTW Stark (Sandman Slim) usually delegates exorcisms to a friend who was excommunicated for translating old stuff that precedes the Jewish /Christian faith (he does not hunt zombies anymore, having exterminated them all in the second book).
Demons are too dim-witted to be much danger, the angels left over from a preceding, failed creation are waaaay more dangerous.

Holy moly, the leader of the catholic faith believes in *gasp* catholic doctrine? Nothing is more astonishing than supposedly progressive people’s awe at the absolute bare minimum of tolerance displayed by the current pope.

I feel like currently, the most obvious example of religious privilege is the fact that when the pope espouses something that is completely self-evident in modern society, he’s praised like he’s the second coming by people who should know better. But holy shit, what a shock that he actually believes in the nonsense of the catholic church.

Possibly. Or maybe they were messing with him and doing guttural growls just to make him squirm. Maybe the chocolates were supposed to have just flied towards him without the women throwing them, too. You know, Satan attacking the poor priest by invisibly throwing harmless stuff at the man, just like in the movies.

As I understand it, Satan started out as something close to what we might call a devil’s advocate now. In otherwords, he tempted people not because he was trying to lure them away from God, but because he wanted to check if they could be lured away.
That was the point of the story of Job. Satan was arguing that the only reason Job was faithful to God was the fringe benefits. Satan wasn’t accusing Job out of evil intent. He was accusing Job in order to test if Job was really worthy of the high praise God accorded him.

Over time, God’s Adversary (someone who works on behalf of God) became God’s Adversary (someone who works against God) and this was combined with older ideas about the Serpent, as a representation of Chaos (similar to, and possibly a derivation of, Tiamat).

Of course, once that idea is settled, it’s read back into the earlier myths, which is why the serpent in Eden suddenly becomes Satan; something that isn’t actually in the story at all.

I’ve got to ask… How did he know, or what made him think, the two women were lesbians?? Do they wear some sort of ID tag these days? Of course any pair of females, happily out and about, obviously not in the entourage of a superior male, just have to be queer – right?

At least they didn’t turn their heads through 360 degrees and throw up on him, though with the quality of chocolate I expect one get’s on aeroplanes I shouldn’t be surprised..

I’ve got to ask… How did he know, or what made him think, the two women were lesbians?? Do they wear some sort of ID tag these days?

Of course they weren’t wearing ID tags, don’t be silly… I suspect he “knew” they were lesboes cuz they were two women holding hands, maybe had one arm around the other, tickling each other and giggling, etc. etc.
But aside from all that EXTRA nonsense: I’m sure, just holding hands would make a “old school” priest convinced they were lesbians. ^_^

I meant, if we take the priest at his word, he literally thought two women had become possessed by a biggie demon. If we go for the action film route, we could have “Blade” killing monsters. Title: “Demons in a Plane”

This looks like an attempt to do outreach to the MRA community. He ought to be posting there directly, though.

“Dear MRA website, I never thought this would happen to me. I was sitting on a airplane, minding my own business, just praying silently without moving my lips. And all of a sudden an adult woman in the row behind me started growling at me and throwing chocolates for no reason. The flight attendants ignored her. I think she was a lesbian and most likely a man-hating feminist.”

@Pierce R. Butler #35 – You are right, he is a Jesuit. The trait that best defines the Society of Jesus is doublethink, the ability to say one thing while fanatically and completely believing in the opposite. That is actually scarier than a Franciscan.

And he did name himself after the sissy from Assisi, according to the press releases that went out after his elevation.

I am reminded that cabin pressure drops to the pressure approximating an altitude of 2000m (about 7000 ft). While most people suffer from no ill effects, maybe individuals with circulatory problems get symptoms of oxygen deprivation.

Priest’s story: there was a lesbian couple behind him. His praying caused them to make satanic growls and to throw chocolates at him.

Real story: Two women were traveling together (priest is uncomfortable around unchaparoned women). Priest starts praying just loud enough so that his fellow travelers hear the denounciation in his prayers. The women start to make fun of the priest by mock satanic growls and throwing chocolates. [This might be projection on my part because this would so totally be my reaction to the priests actions-if this is close to the real story.].

I wonder if there isn’t a degree of cynical pandering in Francis pumping up demonic possession and exorcism. The membership of the Catholic Church is becoming more and more composed of people from the developing world, as fewer and fewer people in industrialised societies remain involved. So the church bigwigs may feel, rightly or wrongly, that those members are more likely to believe in demonic possession, and will look elsewhere if those beliefs aren’t catered to. It doesn’t help that in much of Latin America conservative Protestant groups that are prone to believing such things, such as Pentecostals, are draining market share in a region where Catholicism was dominant for 400 years.

As far as I can determine from the Swissair fanboiz blogs, the chocolate served on Swissair is made by Chocolats Halba. Link Here.

Unless they were flying first class, in which case they might have been throwing Sprüngli chocolates at the exorcist. Link: Confiserie Sprüngli They look devilishly good. And the word “Confiserie” is likely to get a priest hot under the collar.

Satan and Lucifer are two different Old Testament characters. Satan means “adversary” or “prosecutor” as mentioned above. He’s an annoying servant of YHWH who brings out the worst in stupid Israelites.

“Lucifer” is just Latin for “light-bearer” and it’s a translation of a translation of “Son of the morning,” which probably means the planet Venus on some level. It’s used as an insult for the King of Babylon. Commentators think it may be a reference to a legend where Venus tries to outshine the sun. There’s nothing else useful about Lucifer but Milton got a lot of mileage out of the passage. That clever snake is yet a third character.

The Rev. is lucky it wasn’t me sitting behind him. If I had been eating that sickly milk chocolate on a plane he probably would have had a stream of vomit down his dogcollar. Now that’s Exorcist style!

Growing up in catholicism we were taught that Lucifer and Satan were the same “individual”. There was also quite a lot more about the mythology of Lucifer than just a passing mention of the name as an insult, and to be fair, it was the coolest, most interesting bit of all the christian mythology (well, archangels in general were fascinating to me). Seriously, the entire mythology around Lucifer is just cool…i have no idea where it comes from, but whoever elaborated it did a very fine job.

“Tell me your name!” he kept repeating, until finally she spat out, “Asmodeus,” the name of an ancient demon and hellish spokesman.

“How many are you?” he yelled, repeating the question as she grunted and shook her head violently.

Finally, she defiantly said, “We are five!”

Five? The only way I can make sense of this is if this is a reference to Venus. On the other hand, why would a lay person know this detail? Or, she just made it up, ad hoc, to please the priest, mistaking it for the Devil itself?
Demon salad is going to be the order of the day for the next few years. Followed by chocolates, … flying chocolates.

I think most of it goes back to the rollicking good books of Enoch, which were widely used by both Jews and early Christians are still considered canonical by a few Christians and Jews. Weirdly I do think that the modern versions owe as much to Milton and Dante as to Enoch.

Airline fans bring such minutiae up on discussion boards. The problem is that the branded chocolates are obviously made by third parties, and are pretty much trade secrets. On the other hand, there are many who like the Swissair branded chocolates, so there is much animo to find out. I do not have the energy to get to the absolute bottom of this. I was just curious.

There is an interesting series of podcasts on religion available by Philip Harland, professor at York University in Toronto. The most recent series is: “Series 8: A Cultural History of Satan – Personified Evil in Early Judaism and in Christianity” I figure some people might be interested in it.

The funny thing about regret is it is much better to regret something you have done than to regret something you haven’t done. By the way, if you see your mother this weekend, be sure and tell her SATAN, Satan, satan…

Ah, the Washington Post, that bastion of skepticism.
Church officials think satan and demons are real? No need to even question that or ask for proof.
Human beings have the ability to detect and repel demonic entities? Nope. We’re not going to question that either. We’ll give credence to silly, unfounded, superstitious beliefs.

****

gardengnome @41:

I’ve got to ask… How did he know, or what made him think, the two women were lesbians??

I was curious about that as well. I wonder if anyone at the Washington Post questioned it.

What I’m curious about is whether there is any evidence, outside the ramblings of an old priest, that any such incident occurred at all, let alone as described.

Given the ubiquity of tweeting anything remotely out of the ordinary on any flight (admit it – flights aren’t the most exciting mode of transport, between take-off and landing anyway) I would have thought that someone would have been only too keen to tweet a pair of Lesbians chucking chocs at a cleric!

But, then again, anyone who can claim that such an incident took place, as described, with a straight face, is far too good an actor to be confined to the church.

“Chocolate-flinging lesbians” would be a great name for a band. Or maybe a performance art group. Think of how awesome it would be if roving bands of lesbians wandered around random public spaces flinging chocolates at people.

The only thing different about Frankie is that he’s a Franciscan; there has never before been a Franciscan pope.

The Order of Friars Minor has always, since its founding, been an advocate of poverty and helping those in need. That is where most of Frankie’s views on economic social justice come from.

Nope. He’s a Jesuit, not a Franciscan. The Jesuits have always been big on advocating for the poor from ferreting out excesses among the clergy during the Counter Reformation to heavy involvement in Liberation Theology and social activism in recent times. That’s why oligarchs, American-backed dictators and banana republicans have killed so many of them.

I’ve got to ask… How did he know, or what made him think, the two women were lesbians??

That is actually the scariest part of this whole thing… how could he NOT know they were lesbians? Once you grant validity to an ability to detect and expunge great evil, lesser evils must be cake. Worse yet, it seems that what gets passed on to the flock is a quiet search and destroy mentality. Or at least a search and shun mentality.

I’ve been party to a lite version of this. When I was in college, I remained friends with one of my high school teachers, who was a Catholic convert, of the “seriously converted” variety. I’d remained close to her because she was brilliant in many ways, and clear headed, and had helped me develop some art-related skills, outside school and on her own time. She’d also been very tolerant of my outcast-ish, ADHD addled confusions, and was helpful and direct in her willingness to deal with some of the emotional complications of my peculiar nature.

So, it was a bit of a shock when, after I’d related some unsettling issues I’d had with some of my college instructors and finished by saying “it’s like they think I’m possessed,” her response came as “I’ve wondered that myself.” I was still professing to be Christian at the time, but if that had come from anyone else I would have been merely amused, irritated, or at worst hurt because of the personal judgment in it. From this woman, I still remember the air going out of the room and my head spinning. To her credit, she never treated me any differently than she always had; but knowing that’s what someone thinks of you is unsettling at best.

The point being that this kind of thinking is quietly insidious, and can infect bits of a person’s thinking while leaving much else relatively untouched to serve, in effect, as a mask.

“We are five!” -She is channeling Enid Blyton!
.
Asked how he knew the woman was possessed, he said that “once you hear a Satanic growl, you never forget it.” Of course. Growling, when properly done, *will* stay in your memory!
Deicide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL-BA86UhoE

We realise that religion is at a higher level than brute superstition. Indeed, the priestly class was formed to create a buffer between mere humans and the metaphysical. First through shamanism, medicine men, and the like. Later with more sofistimikateded priests.

The Catlicks have merely kept up with the times (if slightly less so than the evangelicals). Religion is now more than it was before. It is a business. It adapts as businesses do to new trends. The new trend now, is to add a little water to the wine.

Whereas LV (Louis Vuitton to the unwashed) has created new entry levels¹ into their brand (far cheaper trinkets: … instead of an expensive bag, one can purchase one’s way onto the ladder by acquiring a cheaper plastic wallet, or purse … for example). The “cheaper trinkets”, “brand dilution”, in religious terms is to offer more shamanism (“exorcists”) and (cheaper still) brute superstition.

The hope is that once people have bought into the crap, they will climb the brand ladder to the next higher purchase-price range. I can see this working for LV. I fail to see how this will work for teh cat_licks in the long run.

For the pope (CC ™ )), the LV analogy² is rather this: People buy the trinkets. They only buy the trinkets. CC ™ become a trinket factory. CC ™ downgrade everything to their clientèle. They get stuck as second rate bullshit manufacturers. ³

In papal terms: They come for superstition, they stay for superstition. The cat_lick church becomes a superstition mill. It cannot upgrade to religiosity, because intelligent people switch [brands] to science.

…
¹ A strategy that seems to have served them well to achieve market penetration in Asia.

² LV’s strategy suits a commercial venture. I do not mean to denigrate their brand. I merely use them as an analogy of the similar MO of the cat_licks. LV don’t have reality to contend with. They are masters of aspiration, without the liability of claiming infallibility or absolute truth. They merely offer a choice… take it or leave it.

³ This is not a new gambit. The Byzantine St Cyril (creator of the Cyrillic alphabet) headed north to acquire as many Slavic converts as possible, in the shortest possible time. To hell with quality of conviction. It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide whether or not this was the best marketing approach.