New user-made KotH gamemode [...]

I recently started using hammer, as i couldn't stop my imagination from being a 'physical thing'. I started by making a KotH map, as they're cool and seemed easy to do (but spawnrooms are not!). But the map eveloped in a way that made me think of a new user-made KotH/CP gamemode (or KotH/tc, idk).
Oh and note i have no idea if anyone before me 'invented' this, and that as i don't know how to build it i haven't tested it yet.

So the map might then consist of 3 Control points and 3 areas: The 2 spawns, the hill, and the 2 CPs. (One for each team in the beggining). The map should be $ shapped (main paths): spawns at the edges, hill in the middle and the CPs in the curves. Let me demostrate my ability with this super well-drawn picture:
(Link, image seems broken: http://twitpic.com/bn59ug )

Victory conditions: capturing the 2 control points (insta-win) or no time remaining on the central cp clock (like normal Koth) (that's why i should call it KotH/tc). This way the hill wouldn't be so spammed as both teams would also have to defend their 'base' cps. (read note) Also, the hill would actually have a function (ofc) wich would be preventing teams from making the map unplayable due to camping on their point all the time. So, i think teams would need a good strategy.

Did anyone understand it?
If so, could anyone make a tutorial about creating such map example?
And most important, what do YOU think about it?

NOTE: i thought about this because my koth hill would be so spammed. or at least it looked like it'd be. never made 3D maps before (ofc MC doesn't count).
However, i think it may be a good gamemode.

That's actually ingenious. Seriously, that would give unsymmetrical KotH, which is fairly hard to balance.
But you can also make 3cp-push and try to make the map work first with that. If you can work with the team holding one point and having to push to the other point, then you can make the map work with the team having to hold two points and just having to camp.

That would work. The winning team (hill+base point) has to attack something that's easily campable. They also have to split their forces (hold hill and base point until time runs out or attack enemy base point).
You also need to have flanks, so team can go from base point to base point. So they need to push or hold.
That's actually quite smart.

It's not a bad idea, but you will probably find in play testing that it doesn't work well in TF2. You're forcing teams to divide their attention between two points on the map in a game that's generally balanced around teams focusing on a single point. There's also the issue of mobility, some classes in TF2 can't move very fast and if the location of main combat is constantly shifting, it may frustrate those players.

The best analogue to this is PLR.. the issues people complain about in PLR will be the same issues you'll find in a map like you've described.

It might work on a 32 man server, but you'll find that people playing engineers and heavies don't have any fun. Scouts will love it.

That's actually ingenious. Seriously, that would give unsymmetrical KotH, which is fairly hard to balance.
But you can also make 3cp-push and try to make the map work first with that. If you can work with the team holding one point and having to push to the other point, then you can make the map work with the team having to hold two points and just having to camp.

That would work. The winning team (hill+base point) has to attack something that's easily campable. They also have to split their forces (hold hill and base point until time runs out or attack enemy base point).
You also need to have flanks, so team can go from base point to base point. So they need to push or hold.
That's actually quite smart.

It's not a bad idea, but you will probably find in play testing that it doesn't work well in TF2. You're forcing teams to divide their attention between two points on the map in a game that's generally balanced around teams focusing on a single point. There's also the issue of mobility, some classes in TF2 can't move very fast and if the location of main combat is constantly shifting, it may frustrate those players.

The best analogue to this is PLR.. the issues people complain about in PLR will be the same issues you'll find in a map like you've described.

It might work on a 32 man server, but you'll find that people playing engineers and heavies don't have any fun. Scouts will love it.

Try balancing a regular map and seeing that through to the end before making anything odd. Just a friendly piece of advice.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

GPUzzle, a 3cp push would work! but my map would be a bit narrow then...
xzzy, i don't think it's so similar to plr, althrough it is (a bit). That would be balanced by a well-designed map. And yeah, that would need a lot of testing.
and yyler, of course i'll do so actually, i'll try to see wich gamemode fits better with my map, because i'm considerating 3-5CP push too... who knows.

But, please, could anyone make this new gamemode work? (with an example map)

EDIT: yyler, saw your thread about what to avoid when making your first maps/any map after all. I now understand (better) what you said, and yeah, i think i'm sticking to trying CP push or normal koth rather than an altered gamemode. I do even think i'll make one version for each gamemode, when the map is finished and if i manage to do so.

Anyway, i still want someone to try this koth/tc gamemode out (OP), just to test how is it.

EDIT 2: Could anyone check my map out? i made a spawn door, but it seems like it's wrong. But i perfectly followed the tutorial! would need a mail.

Well, I can not make the map entities, but I surely can set out the logic that could be used to set the gamemode.

Start with all points neutral and able to cap ------> On point 1 (RED base) cap, add 1 point to the team that capped -----> On point 2 (BLU base) cap, add 1 point to the team that capped -----> on point 3 (Hill) cap, start timer ------> if any of the team points is equal to two, end game and the team that capped all the base points is the winner ------> if timer runs out, end game and the team who has Hill capped is the winner.

I'm not sure how could you lay out the entities (I generally do a small Ctrl+C Ctrl+V on A Boojum Snark gamemode guide), but if I finally learn how to use them properly, I could do it.

Let's see if I understood this.
You want 3 cp koth where
1) the 3 cps are linear, as in you must capture them in order.
2) timer ticks down for your team if you own your 'base' and the 'mid'
3) if you capture all of them, you win regardless of time on the clock.

If that's it then it's possible to make with the koth logic, no problem. I've experimented with multi cp koth's a bit and it's quite flexible if you do it right.

Can't say if it would actually be fun though.

Everyone should have a hobby, mine was forcing sightline discussions into every map thread.

I recommend you become able to easily make a functioning spawn door by yourself before taking up experimental gamemodes. It'll save you a lot of grief.

Click to expand...

Heh.

OP, I would have thought that there would be a spawn next to each control point, and when you play for one point (at a time) and win it you would move forward to the spawn at that point and defend that, and the other team would make back to the other. Much like 5cp, but isolated to only 1 point at a time.

The green dots are spawn points, the red dots are control points, brown is the round barriers and the orange arrows is the point they would be playing for. This whole set-up would move one point left or right depending on what team won, then you would win by reaching the opposite end of the linear run.

Sergis: Mmmmmmmph yeah well actually all team-specific spawn doors tutorials tell me to do the same, and that's what i did, but it crashes a second/half a second after it is activated. TF2 crashes. And idk what's wrong, eveything should be identical! And by identical i mean i paused and played the same videos like 20 times each to do every step. But it won't work.

Well, I can not make the map entities, but I surely can set out the logic that could be used to set the gamemode.

Start with all points neutral and able to cap ------> On point 1 (RED base) cap, add 1 point to the team that capped -----> On point 2 (BLU base) cap, add 1 point to the team that capped -----> on point 3 (Hill) cap, start timer ------> if any of the team points is equal to two, end game and the team that capped all the base points is the winner ------> if timer runs out, end game and the team who has Hill capped is the winner.

I'm not sure how could you lay out the entities (I generally do a small Ctrl+C Ctrl+V on A Boojum Snark gamemode guide), but if I finally learn how to use them properly, I could do it.

Click to expand...

That's exactly (i think ) what i meant.
Thanks a lot GPuzzle! And btw is there any way you can copy full objects (entities, brushes...) with their custom data/outputs/whatever from one map to another? I always end up copying the model location/name to insert it, as i didn't find how to copy it as if you were doing Ctrl+c Ctrl+v on the same map.

You approached it, but that's not what i thought. Anyway, thanks, and i'll take your map as base to modify it and try to achieve what i want.

[EDIT:] Managed to make it work as i want it to be! Awesome! Now, there's only 1 thing that is bitching me.... Only 1 timer is shown! Its color is your team colour but the time it is counting it's from the team who owns the hill - weird! I guess any KOTH mapmaker can solve this... no? Well i cannot by myself so i'll put a link here and someone please tell me how to/fix that!