I'm writing a research paper on how sci-fi films in the past decade are increasingly reflecting our anxieties about technology, particularly the possibility of Singularity if/when technology surpasses us. Just wondering what other Sputnikers think about anything relating to the future of technology, epistemological questions relating to integration and immortality (cyborgs or computer consciousness), etc. I'm not well-versed in this field, but I think it's immensely interesting, so feel free to throw some thoughts here.

I'm reading Alone Together: Why We Expect More from Technology and Less from Each Other by Sherry Turkle, and she pretty much says just that and that it's ruining our personal relationships because we can avoid face-to-face contact so easily, but I wasn't totally convinced that it's a completely bad thing.

Yeah, we're extremely dependent on technology - if the unlikely situation would occur that the entire world would lose Internet connection with each other for even a day, I can imagine there would be a whole lot of panic. But on an everyday scale, I don't think the changes in the way people think about themselves and other people as a result of things like texting and social networking is necessarily detrimental, even if it seems a bit frightening in that it's new.

I'm pretty much the only person in my class who thinks this, though, haha. Almost everyone else thinks further advancements like robot nurses and the possibility of transferring human consciousness to a computer is incredibly fucked up (although I have yet to hear a solid reason from any of them as to why it disturbs them). I'm hoping there are people more open to the idea on here. ._.

I think some of the anxiety is the possibility that humans are not the ultimate life-form. Why would we want to create a "species" superior to us? Even if they didn't destroy us, it would seriously damage a lot of our perceptions of ourselves (especially any notions of being a "chosen" species, a strong foundation of the three major religions).

But I think it's not worth dismissing the idea of high-function computers completely, just because we're scared of a robot apocalypse.

Think about this Vesper, what would happen in say 20 years down the road when we have robots acting as doctors, robots flying our airplanes etc if we got hit by a world-wide blackout. Think about how fucked we would be even for 24 hours probably millions of people would die because in the future we will rely so heavily on technology.

People didn't choose them because they do these things, they do these things because people chose them. You've got it backwards. They didn't just appear and start taking over, people liked what they had to offer and supported them, then they got bigger and started being generic corporate bullies. It's been happening since the start of business, doesn't mean they will take control over the internet, they will just be mainstream staples for a long time to come, but we still have the choice to choose other companies/products.

Technology has brought us to the point where a lot of luxuries are considered necessities, and, yeah, a lot of the human population in industrialized countries would die out if put in that situation. I guess I still think the potential pay-off is worth the risk.

I'm not a Singularitarian, by the way - I just like thinking about the different possibilities. LIKE BRAIN HAXORS.

Well, in the first step towards that, Google has tested automated cars (but a human can take over whenever s/he wants to), and there has been a prostate surgery successfully conducted with a robot anesthesiologist and a robot surgeon.

Even with the possibility of a world-wide blackout with no back-up support whatsoever, the likelihood of humans making mistakes is, on a day to day basis much higher than a computer's chance of error. I think Google's approach of having systems that can immediately be taken over by a human is sufficient. I'm all for cutting down the number of human drivers, based on personal experience... -_-

See this is just the first step towards relying on this technology completely. That's what I'm saying. For the immediate future it all seems nice and convenient to rely on technology in our day to day lives, but step by step, little by little, we will end up COMPLETELY relying on these technologies in which case we will be completely fucked in the event of something like a blackout or whatever, unless we can come up with an energy source that's infinite and constant.

facebook didn't even exist in any significant way 5 years ago. it was a better version of friendster, myspace

google didn't even exist in any significant way 15 years ago. it was a better version of yahoo, altavista (remember that thing?), ask jeeves, web crawler

people were saying this about microsoft til it began to dwindle. now they're saying it about apple since steve jobs has them going strong again. there will always be powerful companies but it's so rare for them to really stay extremely impactful for as long as people keep saying they will be

Whoops, missed that huge section while typing my post out. But I basically agree with forever, although, yeah, eventually, governance will be a huge problem if humans should ever mostly, if not completely, switch over to an unregulated virtual plane.

Truth...but now these companies have power like no one can really control without extremely drastic measures. For example, I think Google is in control of security for something like 60% of the US's government files and documents. The government gave Google that power, but Google controls it...and that's a lot of power to have.

As for robot apocalypse...I think a big part of believing in it is the assumption that, if given the ability to "think for itself," a robot would think exactly as a human thinks, which is assuming A LOT in my opinion. If technology is destined to be the cause of the fall of civilization, it will be due to people who use them to replace humans in menial jobs. There will be a huge disconnect between the richest and the poorest, with no one in the middle to generate national wealth (take a look at the US and see what happens when companies can't/don't/won't provide jobs for the "middle class").

And that's not completely a slight against big-business...merely an observation on how people tend to progress and push forward faster than the world is ready for. As Ian Malcolm put it, they're "so busy trying to see if they COULD do it, [they] never stop to think if they SHOULD."

And then we move to a different galaxy and colonize some other third planets from yellow suns.

I see what you're saying, forever, but I feel like a lot of it's frightening, again, just because it's unfamiliar. I would say we're highly dependent on our plumbing systems. We COULD live without it, like we could without the Internet (really), but a lot of us would go crazy having to use outhouses again, and the problem of sewage in large cities would be disastrous. Is this dependence not also frightening?

Anyway, I think if we ever do get to that point where we are that dependent, I hope the humans then aren't so stupid as to not have that shit backed up and protected every way they can.

I don't believe in the Singularity, but I AM one of those who fear that the need for "safety" will increase our reliance on technology pointlessly...either because that "safety" will simultaneously diminish our freedom, or because what is marketed as a safety precaution will instead be purposely used as a controlling agent.

These companies do what they want, because they're private... Is it more frightening to have the government control the Internet and technology or companies compete with each other, even if that means they limit what products you can pair (because otherwise, why would you pick one service over the other)?

@acad -- history time. rockafeller once owned everything, pan am was the biggest and most powerful airline company that monopolized flying over the atlantic (such a huge deal at the time). what truly powerful company today is more than 30 years old? i think all your rants are generally true statements, but people are more conscious of huge companies that are making our lives different. facebook changing our way of lives is something each and every person that uses the site is conscious of but you fail to comment on how it is being scrutinized (and rightfully so) at every turn

Vesper, the sun isn't infinite. It will die out like every sun out there is doing every single second (that's true by the way, every single second a star like our sun dies)

Academy, I completely agree with you, I just think these companies will dwindle like every other company eventually does. Something better will always come along that people will choose over the big ones now. And maybe I'm an exception, but I still see tons of choices. I mean maybe that's because I DON'T have a mac or an iphone or droid or use itunes or any of that crap. I have a regular little crap phone that came for fee with sprint, I have a pc that's completely customized, etc etc

"I don't believe in the Singularity, but I AM one of those who fear that the need for "safety" will increase our reliance on technology pointlessly...either because that "safety" will simultaneously diminish our freedom, or because what is marketed as a safety precaution will instead be purposely used as a controlling agent."

"I don't believe in the Singularity, but I AM one of those who fear that the need for "safety" will increase our reliance on technology pointlessly...either because that "safety" will simultaneously diminish our freedom, or because what is marketed as a safety precaution will instead be purposely used as a controlling agent."

not a conspiracy theory, I think the truth of this can already be easily seen, so I agree 100%

haha okay yeah, I skipped over the colonizing other planets part so I missed that bit of sarcasm. "Anyway, I think if we ever do get to that point where we are that dependent, I hope the humans then aren't so stupid as to not have that shit backed up and protected every way they can." Yeah, hopefully!

I know you're writing this about sci-fi in the past decade, but I think Frankenstein would be a nice inclusion in this idea-- man taking responsibility over his technological creations, the dangers of technology in general, manufactured life, etc.

I'd love to see the creation of genuine AI in my lifetime. I think the chances of reaching a singularity before the event of a full scale nuclear war is effectively zero, though. There just aren't the resources for the earth's population level to remain where it is now for the next century. When things start getting tight, people will screaming for war.

i meant that people are scrutinizing for good reason (AND RIGHTFULLY SO is what i said). you made it seem like no one was noticing. i'm glad that you're scrutinizing and that other people are. when we stop scrutinizing, then we're in trouble.

at&t and verizon are both 30 year old companies and competing, making neither older than 30. siemens would be a better example for you as it is 160 years old... but i'd like to hear why i should be scared of at&t and verizon other than monitoring what i'm doing on the internet? like no sarcasm, i'm wondering what hold they have on my life i don't know about

Of course, a technology thread I post on Sputnik inevitably turns to game consoles.

/generalizingmales

@Keith - It's not really ironic on my part, since I don't think the advance of technology is inherently threatening. But good try.

@theacademy - Just to be clear: DO YOU HATE CAPITALISM.

I think the other possibility of widespread, more easily available technology is that it provides people with platforms to eventually create their own options. For instance, I never pay for international phone calls, thanks to Skype. I don't see why people won't create even more options like this when they see phone companies as having a monopoly on what they can charge us.

@Sea - I might try to mention it, since, yeah, sci-fi has had a long fixation on this idea. My paper is more about the increasing prevalence of the idea, particularly in more mainstream formats like films, which I think indicates a more significant social change than the ideas of forward-thinking sci-fi writers. :)

@Phlebas - "I'd love to see the creation of genuine AI in my lifetime."

The Singularitarians put their tech Rapture at 2045, so, if they're right, it might certainly be within our lifetimes. But, yeah, I'm seriously thinking China had the right idea with population control at this point. The way most people live these days is completely unsustainable; it's terrifying.

@Acanthus - YES, SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME. Although I think I would try out cyborg immortality, but I see it more as agency to end your life when you want to. Also, I'm wondering what ideological effects the possible elimination of death (and having explanations for the afterlife) would have.

Dude, calm down. I was just making a little fun of you. I got that you weren't about making those lines from this: "as long as people keep commenting about what they call 'socialism' instead of looking it up on wikipedia and then shutting the fuck up".

:/

Yeah, my point was that that's what it's like now to some extent, but there's no reason to make generalizations that it will continue in that vein or become worse. Not every vision of the future has to be 1984.

@theacad which company is it, Sprint? that will remotely uninstall apps on your phone that they don't want you to use? or AT&T? Regardless, it pisses me off and ties into what you said about government regulation - thing is, oftentimes it isn't the government but instead some company and we often don't realize it. Most people who buy Dell computers and aren't computer-savvy to some degree will install everything that comes with the PC and/or not uninstall the pre-loaded programs, one of which gives Dell remote access to your PC. Anybody who uses Google Voice (a product I'm pretty sure has NO competition, due to the wide range of possible uses) gives loads of personal information to Google, which they could easily use for whatever means. Google already uses email content for ad targeting- who's to say they won't read our (yes, I said our- I use it too) GV texts as well? I'm not trying to sound like an alarmist, but it's really concerning that so many people don't realize how their allowing various companies to get where they shouldn't.

true. but that's also what causes people to trust them so quickly. practically anything with Google's name on it is immediately trusted... not saying they aren't worthy of that trust, but still. true, they've done a lot (hell, I have an android phone), but it still irks me

Right...don't mean to quote myself, but I'm going to re-insert a relevant argument I made earlier right here...:

"...but now these companies have power like no one can really control without extremely drastic measures. For example, I think Google is in control of security for something like 60% of the US's government files and documents. The government gave Google that power, but Google controls it...and that's a lot of power to have."

"The Singularitarians put their tech Rapture at 2045, so, if they're right, it might certainly be within our lifetimes. But, yeah, I'm seriously thinking China had the right idea with population control at this point. The way most people live these days is completely unsustainable; it's terrifying."

Fingers crossed for 2045. I saw a D. Attenborough doc last year about the sustainablility of the human population, and he made out that we need to drop a few billion quickstyle. Interestingly, though, he didn't advocate China's method, but I can't for the life of me remember what he did suggest. Personally I think we'll just carry on until we're fucked. Don't think the old bastards in charge care about what's gonna happen when they're in the ground.

China's method is pretty extremist, so I can see why he wouldn't advocate it, since it's basically contraception after your first child and, if you're so foolish as to have a second, a heavy fine and possibly forced abortion/sterilization to prevent any that follow. But, hey, it worked for them and saved them all from the famine that would have occurred otherwise.

A large part of the problem of both overpopulation and people leading unsustainable lives is education (first fifteen minutes of Idiocracy should be required viewing in all schools).

And, yeah, the old bastards don't seem to give a damn that kids are dropping out of high school and popping out babies because they didn't learn shit about birth control. Yet another reason the ridiculous defense budget should be reallocated to the education budget.