This is something I thought of just after watching the newest episode of Korra. Also, after reading the genetics explanation and the idea of reincarnation of every individual, wouldn't it be possible for there to be two Avatars?

If someone were to have past lives as benders of different elements, wouldn't it be possible to be spiritually connected to yourself to understand that? Now, the Avatar's connection to the spirit world is a big thing that makes us so aware of this, but now I am thinking this awareness is little more than the effect of Raava to make us aware of it. That being said, couldn't Vaatu basically do the same thing? If he decided to fly into Unaloq, and he was able to see his past lives, wouldn't it be possible for him to possible have access to all four elements as well? If Unaloq ever lived a past life where he was once either a firebender, and earthbender, or an airbender, wouldn't that mean that they are all in him? Also, wouldn't it be possible to have someone go into a kind of negative Avatar State? I am not sure if this is the case since it is assumed that Wan managed to gain all of these powers during the same lifetime, but I am tossing the idea around of a possible Negative Avatar in the possibility.

I fully expect that Vaatu will combine with Unulaq, just by the way that the narrative is moving. I actually used very similar terms that Tera did below to describe Unulaq in a discussion with DS; he is the Big Bad serving the Ultimate Big Bad (and I hate that the overall plotline has been distilled to GOOD VERSUS EVIL THE FINAL SHOWDOWN) and it's extraordinarily, annoyingly tropeish in every single step of the plot.

In terms of Unulaq becoming an anti-Avatar in skill as well as "name," it has been made clear that bending comes from the Lion Turtles and that without their interference bending can't be learned. Obviously there is an inheritable factor (that I'm very clearly interested in) but it seems confined to one or less bending abilities per individual. Otherwise, justifying an anti-Avatar would mean explaining how he could bend all four elements when Vaatu had not been exposed to them in the same way that Raava had been. My money is more on his unique soulbending ability (which, again, is total bullshit and has not been explained in any sort of sense) being pitted against Korra's bending ability.

(obligatory Mencu reference to follow)I've actually thought about what would happen if someone allied with the universally evil force who wished to destroy humanity once and for all and the likes. It makes me wonder why they want their own world destroyed like that and such, but perhaps there's some sort of promise of power or something?

Either way, I feel like it would end up like Saruman (Sauron does not share power), or like the Devil in religious texts, who uses you until you've outgrown said usefulness, and then he just leaves you to get screwed.

Or to make a more exact reference to Mencu itself, comes from the story of a woman who essentially sold herself to Leaxyk, raising an army of elite who she believed would be spared come the token evil spirit apocalypse and whatnot.Of course, they failed, and similarly of course, Leaxyk didn't give a crap after that, and all was well for everyone else because evil was stopped.

or, to speak Tropenese, the Big Bad calls upon the almighty Bigger Bad. the Big Bad helps further the Bigger Bad's agenda until the Big Damn Heroes come in to stop him. the Bigger Bad does not care about the plight of the Big Bad, and leaves him on his own as the Big Damn Heroes take the Bigger Bad and Seal him in a Can.

something like that.

as for the ideas about multiple Avatars, it can, as mentioned on facebook, go one of two ways. It can go the awesome yin-yang way (5% likely), or the really bad fanfiction/rushed way. the show so far has been relatively predictable, and so if that were to happen, I can sort of see how it would end. it would be difficult to pull off, but if it could be done right, it would be legendary.I'm half willing to bet that Unalaq has some sort of crazyass spirit ritual that could give him Avatar powers. maybe I'm just thinking too Mencunese again on that one though. If nothing else, he's still a waterbender. I think an anti-Avatar would be justified, however, by the concept of yin and yang.

I am more wondering the plausibility than anything. I do have a hunch that that isn't going to happen at all. As you said, I am more afraid than anything of how it would turn out, but it COULD be cool.

One thing that anyone, or Unalaq would be lacking would be actual Avatar training. Even with access to it, I am assuming he would suck at it (unless it's lame). Assuming everyone that is the Avatar does have to actually master the elements. The only case would be if there was a parallel Avatar State, where he could assume the abilities of his past lives and such.

I do have that kind of vibe that Vaatu is much less likely to share his power with anyone than Raava. That is one thing speaks not against how likely it is for the theory to be plausible so much as the likelihood of it actually happening. The only thing I can say to support it was that Wan defeated him in the Avatar State, and he wouldn't want the same thing to happen.

As for Vaatu experiencing the bending from Lion Turtles? That is an area I am confused. I do remember that when Wan got a new form of bending, he needed Raava to fly into him to use it, I am not sure if it had to do with Raava being used to it or simply giving Wan access to it. That is something else I feel is mostly unexplained. I kind of interpreted it differently, but maybe Vaatu himself does have come into contact with those types of bending for it to happen.

Count of Monte Fisto wrote:As for Vaatu experiencing the bending from Lion Turtles? That is an area I am confused. I do remember that when Wan got a new form of bending, he needed Raava to fly into him to use it, I am not sure if it had to do with Raava being used to it or simply giving Wan access to it. That is something else I feel is mostly unexplained. I kind of interpreted it differently, but maybe Vaatu himself does have come into contact with those types of bending for it to happen.

The way that I perceived it is that Raava "held" the bending forms that he was not using, and when she merged with him briefly, his ability was switched. Then, when they merged for good, since she held all of the bending styles, it was then accessible to Wan. Since it is a reincarnation cycle and (from Raava) her soul is essentially bound to his, the Avatar inherits the bending ability by having Raava tag along with Wan's spirit.

And what I mean re: the Lion Turtles is that Wan had to travel to each Lion Turtle and learn bending from each specific one. We have no indication that Vaatu did this, and we sure as hell don't have any hint of Unulaq doing this (and if he does I am going to ragequit), hence why I don't think that, even if Unulaq were to be merged with Vaatu, he would be able to bend all four elements.

Again, though, I do not put it past them to use tropes and if it ends up being a Yin/Yang VAATU UNDERSTANDS IT NOW BECAUSE RAAVA DOES I WILL R A G E Q U I T

I don't blame you. The idea seeming plausible now does raise the question, but I am sure even without substance, it has been the topic to more than a few fanfics I would rather pull my teeth out than read.

As for the whole Raava thing, I am still unsure. We both have different ways of looking at it, but it is still a little too vague to really get a good answer. The first thing I thought about was that Spirits don't bend, or have the power of bending themselves. So, given that, do they have the power of holding bending? But regardless of that, it is still known that by flying through Wan, it gives him access to the element. It could be that she is holding it or simply flipping a switch. The big question is why when merging with Raava only does he really have access to all of the above? Why does that actually matter?

I totally don't have an answer to that question. The reason why knowing the difference of interpretation matters is that it does effect the plausibility of it. Given my method, Vaatu would not have had to fly through anyone with any kind of bending to do this type of thing. With Tiny's interpretation, it is likely a single individual (namely Unalaq in this case) would have had to visit all the Lion Turtles to get all the forms of bending. That is... possible, but kind of mehhh and that Vaatu would have to fly into him to absorb it. I try to play with the idea of reincarnation to assume that in almost 10,000 years that Unalaq (anyone) has been each type of bender at least once. As for Wan and Raava, feel it was still kind of in experimental stage to see if and how he could use the other elements and they played with that. Since Vaatu was basically following Raava the whole way and was defeated by Wan merged with Raava, it might be possible that he would know of it.

The thing about the Avatar State was that I always considered it the power of your ancestors put into you. At least that is what I thought it was when I was watching ATLA. Now, it seems like it is simply a merger of the host with Raava. There does seem to be a dual consciousness of past lives in there if this world still has any notoriety. Assuming the line dies because if you kill a human with a spirit in host that the spirit dies as well, and you really need Raava for there to be an Avatar.

Now, how would that work with Vaatu? Now, that is something else I was wondering about in terms of the whole reincarnation thing. Technically even Wan must have had past lives, though not as the Avatar. So, given that, if everyone is reincarnated, then technically he could have had access to that. Aside from wisdom, I don't see what it could add. Also, Beginnings was way too fast paced to give us any answers to things like that. As a result, would it be possible to gain access to the consciousness of past lives not directly connected to the spirit? Could Wan have talked to his past lives, or could previous Avatars only really talk to Wan as a result of Raava? Are the limitations of the lives that could be given a result of lives that have come into contact with that spirit? If that is the case, then my theory remains busted. I do think in the way that Pleh mentioned in the other thread and that reincarnation is simply a belief and event of this world, rather than something unique of the Avatar. I do feel that clear and obvious awareness of it does seem a bit too Avatar specific to really deny the importance than Raava must play on it. The real question I am trying to answer with this paragraph is whether or not Unalaq would have any knowledge or access to any of his past lives if Vaatu were to combine with him? Clearly, he has done no such thing to anyone's past lives, so it would have to imply that to whom he would fly into would have the ability to access them without those lives directly having access to Vaatu.

I still think it may be possible, but there are still a few holes in it.

Okay, I've been waiting to be caught up in the show and now I am so here goes.

I've suspected for a while now that Unalaq is going to unite with Vaatu to make a second, "evil" avatar. Every episode only makes it more and more likely in my mind. How they can accomplish this? I dunno, but honestly, if they want to do that shit, they don't need to reach through the yin/yang connection between Raava and Vaatu (and keep in mind that Yin and Yang are actually Spirits in the show in their own right). For one thing, Vaatu has had the better part of 10,000 years to think of how he's going to escape his prison and overcome Raava/Avatar in their next battle. For another thing, Unalaq has had the better part of his life to prepare for all this. How do we know what convoluted magic tricks he's learned in all this time?

But the part that REALLY interests me about Unalaq at this point is that he strikes me as another misguided, would-be do-gooder. I don't actually believe that he sees himself as evil here. Ozai... was intoxicated with power and tricked himself into believing that what he was doing would make the world better, but I think even he knew deep down inside that he was just doing what he wanted for no one but himself because he didn't believe anyone could stop him. Amon truly believed in Equality and hated what Bending had done to corrupt people and had a good reason to want to be rid of it. But when Jinora asked the question that's been on my mind ever since it became obvious that Unalaq was working with Vaatu (basically, since Beginnings 2), "why would you want to help Vaatu destroy everything?" Unalaq told her not to believe everything she reads. It's pretty good propaganda for Vaatu's cause: "You would trust the word of the Avatar, who has been bonded to Vaatu's mortal enemy for countless generations, but not someone who has spent their whole life studying the spirits and spoken with Vaatu personally?" It sounds reasonable enough.

In fact, the first time we saw Vaatu, the dude seemed pretty reasonable. "Hey! Help me! This crazy bitch won't leave me alone or let me go!"

Makes me think that either Unalaq has become proficient with spreading Vaatu's agenda or else he himself has been seduced by it and buys into Vaatu's manipulations. On top of all this, I can't conceive of Unalaq being so stupid as believing that he stands to personally gain by allowing Vaatu to destroy everything. No, I am convinced that he either doesn't believe that Vaatu plans to destroy everything, or somehow he believes that Vaatu must be allowed to destroy everything out of some strange concept of maintaining balance in the world.

It's like the old Star Wars Jedi Balance thing. Anakin was predicted to bring Balance to the Galaxy, which the Jedi believed meant getting rid of the Sith and establishing peace in the Galaxy forever. In some ways, he did that. But it seems a more accurate interpretation to say that he brought the Sith and the Jedi onto the same level, bringing light and dark into balance with each other. Does Unalaq believe that the Avatar's job is to maintain balance in ALL of its forms? That War and Destruction are necessary for the world? Perhaps he doesn't seek to destroy the world, but only to ensure that the Raava Spirit battles the Vaatu Spirit on its regularly scheduled Harmonic Convergence. Granted, this theory seems somewhat unlikely given that he was about to use his dark spirit bending power on her before her pheonix friend saved her, but honestly, we don't really know what that dark spirit bending power was going to actually do to her.

On a side note, I noticed that the effect that Unalaq was using seemed to have an effect on Korra and Jinora very, very similar to how Aang's original use of Energybending effected people. On another side note, I was really hoping that Korra would say to Unalaq, "Oh, so that soulbending trick works on people too, huh?... Well, I guess you win-... GOT YOU MUTHAFOCKA! YO SOUL IS MIEN NAO!" But then a friend of mine (IRL) pointed out that Unalaq was in the Spirit World in soul AND body (hence his ability to bend in the Spirit World) whereas Jinora and Korra left their bodies in the material world (btw, Uncle Iroh has made this term, "the material world," officially canonical, much to my relief).

I don't put too much stock in the idea that Unalaq will have the memories of his past lives. After all, we had no indication that Wan gained any such knowledge when he bonded to Raava. It's more like Raava remembers the Avatar's past lives and the Avatar can remember their past lives through their mutual bond with the Raava spirit.

Back on topic, I believe that the entire point of the show will be the contrast between Korra and Unalaq, and why being the Avatar is her destiny and not his. As frustrated as I was that Korra was basically helpless against Unalaq and his Lap Dog Spirits, at the same time I was really glad that she didn't devolve back into "Got problems? FIRE! FIREFIREFIREFIREFIRE! FIRE B A L LZZZZZZ! PUNCH THAT FRICKIN FISH IN THE FACE! AND THEN BURN! BURN THE FISH THAT THOUGHT IT COULD CHALLENGE THE AVATAR! BUUUUURRRRNNNNNNN!"

Like she has always done up until this point. Sadly, we have discovered that only Uncle Iroh is a wise enough teacher to actually make Korra act like a real Avatar and not just some two-bit wanna-be. Thankfully, the creators have preserved him immortally in the Spirit World, so that his endless wisdom can forever be reflected upon by future incarnations of the Avatar, because without him, who in the world could save future Avatars from being stupid Mary Sues with too much power and no sense?

What I would have given for us to see Uncle Iroh turn Jeong Jeong in the Spirit World, and tell Korra to take a hike because he was done helping the material world and just wanted to enjoy his afterlife in peace. Then he could have slapped her upside the head like she's been asking for all this time and told her exactly how she's being stupid. But transforming her into the little kid she's always been in this show and throwing her a little girl's tea party works too.

Pleh wrote:What I would have given for us to see Uncle Iroh turn Jeong Jeong in the Spirit World, and tell Korra to take a hike because he was done helping the material world and just wanted to enjoy his afterlife in peace. Then he could have slapped her upside the head like she's been asking for all this time and told her exactly how she's being stupid. But transforming her into the little kid she's always been in this show and throwing her a little girl's tea party works too.

Not gonna lie having Bro-Tier Iroh return and be the only person capable of knocking sense into Korra was pretty great.

I'd respond to the rest but in all honesty I either agree with it or can't come up with a better argument.

So... now that we know that Unalaq did in fact become a "Dark Avatar"... it leads us to another question. Raava fused with Wan and became the Avatar. Vaatu fusing with Unalaq and became the Dark Avatar.when the Avatar dies, she reincarnates.So... since Unalaq is clearly dead... does that mean that Vaatu reincarnated? Is some poor bastard in the Earth Kingdom going to be the next dark Avatar?It's an interesting concept if done right. otherwise, it'd bad fanfiction. I mean, Vaatu is obviously not dead, because of that whole teachy spiel that went down about how Raava and Vaatu cannot live without each other. Maybe Unalaq was killed in the (dark) Avatar State. I dunno.

the finale came up on nick.com (and subsequently, a handful of other cartoon sites) that same night. 513 and 514 are thus available. If you're American you basically have no excuse.I'd provide links, but I don't have them and am too lazy to look.~Toph~

I think Unalaq died during his equivalent Dark Avatar State. However, you are right about the whole preachy no Raava without Vaatu and vice versa thingy. I am not sure if they are going to play on it anytime soon or at all anymore, but the way they ended did leave it as a future possibility.

Tera253 wrote:the finale came up on nick.com (and subsequently, a handful of other cartoon sites) that same night. 513 and 514 are thus available. If you're American you basically have no excuse.I'd provide links, but I don't have them and am too lazy to look.~Toph~

Tera253 wrote:So... now that we know that Unalaq did in fact become a "Dark Avatar"... it leads us to another question. Raava fused with Wan and became the Avatar. Vaatu fusing with Unalaq and became the Dark Avatar.when the Avatar dies, she reincarnates.So... since Unalaq is clearly dead... does that mean that Vaatu reincarnated? Is some poor bastard in the Earth Kingdom going to be the next dark Avatar?It's an interesting concept if done right. otherwise, it'd bad fanfiction. I mean, Vaatu is obviously not dead, because of that whole teachy spiel that went down about how Raava and Vaatu cannot live without each other. Maybe Unalaq was killed in the (dark) Avatar State. I dunno.

Just some food for thought.~Ty Lee~

Congrats, I actually hadn't thought of this. I believe you're correct here. As I recall, it has already been confirmed by Bryke in some recent interview that the Avatar is not the only person to reincarnate. In fact, everyone reincarnates (except Iroh, who chose to move to the spirit world rather than be born again). The difference with the Avatar is that Raava allows a connection to the past lives of the soul she is connected to. Seeing as Vaatu was fused with Unalaq in exactly the same way and Raava has no power within herself to destroy Vaatu, it stands to reason that Unalaq (whenever he dies, regardless if he is currently dead) will be reborn eventually and his next life will still be fused with Vaatu and additionally having the past memories of Unalaq's life as well.

So, it occurs to me that now the only way to stop him from just continuing in the same cycle as the Avatar is to imprison BOTH Vaatu and his human host in the Spirit World, so that, like Iroh, his soul will never die to be reincarnated, but become trapped without a body in the Spirit World. Then you just have to stop the two of them from possessing another human host and Vaatu should be containable.

well, in theory, you could also pull Vaatu out of the human host just as Unalaq pulled Raava out of Korra. Then it would just be a matter of imprisoning Vaatu all over again I'd think. Then, even if people reincarnate, his reincarnation and the spirit of Vaatu would be separated and we'd live happily ever after for another 10000 years or so.

Of course, when that happened, it'd be a matter of making sure Vaatu stayed contained during Harmonic Convergence, but that's 10,000 years away so yeah. xB~Toph~