Now playing center field for the Astros… Michael Bourn.

Brad Lidge’s time with the Astros had run out. In the end, that’s why this trade was made. Yes, the Astros got younger and faster in the five-player trade that sent Lidge to the Phillies Wednesday night. In CF Michael Bourn, the Astros acquired a potential star.

Still, this trade really was a closing of the book on Brad Lidge’s strange career with the Astros. In 2004 and 2005, he was as dominant as any closer ever. Remember the 2004 playoffs? When they ended, Lidge was as untouchable as any player in the big leagues. In seven appearances, covering 12.1 IP, he allowed one earned run and five hits, striking out 20 and walking five.

He was almost as unhittable for most of the 2005 season. That is, until that Albert Pujols home run in Game 5 of the NLCS. He was never the same. He had some dominant stretches, some stretches when he appeared normal. But he never found his magic on any long-term basis.

Last season, Lidge was second in the National League in blown saves and the anchor of a bullpen that was one of baseball’s worst. He has killer stuff and a huge heart and is as decent a person as you’ll meet. Here’s hoping he resurrects his career with the Phillies.

There’s no reason to believe it was going to happen here, and GM Ed Wade had the guts to pull the trigger. He also strengthened the Astros by acquiring 24-year-old Bourn, who’ll hit leadoff and play center field next season.

Can Bourn play? I have no idea. He has solid credentials. He flew through the minor leagues after the Phillies took him in the fourth round of the 2003 draft after a nice career at UH. He began last season in AA and finished it in the big leagues, hitting .277 in 119 ABs. He had a .377 OBP during four minor league seasons and stole 63 bases combined last season.

“One of our goals coming into the offseason was to find a quality speed centerfielder who could hit at the top of the order and give us a spark,” Wade said. “Bourn is an outstanding young player who will make an immediate impact and should be productive for a long time. Plus, his addition allows us to move Hunter Pence to right field, where he will continue to grow into the All-Star caliber player that we know he’s capable of becoming. While Bourn was the key to the deal for us, we also believe that Geoff Geary will do a solid job in our bullpen, and Mike Costanzo is an outstanding power prospect at third base.”

There’s another aspect of this trade that’s important. It was time to change this mix of players. That had already begun with the departures of Craig Biggio, Dan Wheeler, Morgan Ensberg, etc. When Wade is finished, there’ll be different leadership, different chemistry.

Trades don’t come with guarantees. I have no idea if the Astros got better or worse with this one. But I admire that he was willing to make a tough one and that he seems focused on other upgrades. Wade apparently will attempt to sign Francisco Cordero to be his new closer and probably will make a run at Scott Linebrink for a setup role. He’s shopping for a new second baseman as well.

When Wade was hired, he and Tal Smith promised to be aggressive in remaking the club. They weren’t kidding.

148 Responses

I like us getting Bourn, but wow we should gotten more in this trade. It is better than the Jennings trade, but we were offered Ellsbury and 2 other solid prospects for Lidge and said no. Astros desperately miss you Hunsicker.

Despite his recent troubles, Lidge has great stuff and might be the next ex-astro in the playoffs next year. I personally think he will resurrect his career in Philly. The Astros desparately needed Bourn’s speed, and they really need to sign Cordero now. Hopefully this trade will help both teams. If they could sign one of the free agent second basemen there might be hope after all.

I’m very sad to see Lidge go. He helped us get to the World Series and has been a very good player for the most part. That one HR by poo-holes jacked him up and he just wasn’t the same after. The only thing I wish was that they traded him to an AL team. I really hope he doesn’t get his groove back when they play us. That would be just our luck….we trade him away and then he shuts us down as the Phillies beat us to win the Wild Card. Here’s to hoping he does well…except when he plays against us.

are you a little frightned with our history of trading our closer to PHL for players who do not pan out (Duckworth, Estacio, Buchholtz)….I hope that Bourn will be a stud, but im a little apprehensive….They must have got a good idea from Hunter/Rowand so they acted quickly with this….on the $$$ side Uncle should be a happy man

I hate to see Lidge go, ive felt bad for him ever since he gave up that moon shot to the pujols, but hey we gotta move on. Excited to see Bourn in center i think i remember rumors during the season that the astros wanted him. hopefully this third base prospect can blossom, cause wiggington is ensberg with a diffrent name and #22 son should have never been drafted in the first place. Looks like Burke is going to be the next person to get pushed to the side. Im glad we got a GM with some balls! Lookin forward to a new breed of astros baseball.

Does Josh Anderson not get a look at center next year? He was hitting .350 in his time up with the ‘Stros in September. If not, does he stick as a fourth or fifth outfielder?

I’m hoping Wade does bring Cordero in, allowing Wheeler to go back to his setup role where he was more effective. I’m also hopeful that Burke gets a shot at second next season. He at least has some pop in his bat. Castillo might work, but he’ll have to steal a lot of bases to compensate for his lack of power.

Time will tell but the Astros get a speedy lead-off hitter in Bourn and a Double-A 3B in Costanzo who hit .270 with 27 HRs, 86 RBIs, 92 runs scored, and 75 walks. In addition, Bourn is signed for about the league minimum for 2008 & 2009 while Costanzo is about the minimum through 2010. The bottom line is saving money, since Lidge is arbitration eligible this year and free agency in 2009, that can be used for other moves. I think it is a good 1st move.

Lidge will an elite closer again and it will have nothing to do with a change of scenery. I guess this indicates the Astros will go hard after Cordero. Trust me that after he’s here a while, you won’t be able to wait until he’s gone. And since it’s obvious the Astros are trading Luke Scott, they better get top value for him. Whoever gets him will play him everyday and he will embarrass the Astros when he hits 30 Hrs and knocks in 100+ runs with an OPS well into the 850s. If they use him to get anything less than a legitimate #2 or #3 starter, they will be laughed at for being fools. A lead off guy is nice, but an excellent middle of the line up bat is better. The trade off is worth it only if they use him to trmendously upgrade the rotation.

Been waiting since August for the offseason to begin and I like it. Not because it makes the Astros an instant contender. Not because Bourn is a future all-star. Not because of Costanzo’s potential or Geary’s experience. But, because it was aggressive, imaginative and a different tactic from the old Astros.

Iguchi or Castillo would be a sweet pick-up. Same goes for Cordero and Linebrink. If Ed Wade pulls off 2 out of 3, that’s a success. Speaking of old pitchers, Kenny Rogers is still getting it done.

Great trade, congrats Ed Wade! Bourn and Costanzo are a decent haul. Maybe they could have gotten more, but this is still good return for a utility man hitting arbitration and a closer with baggage set to make $6 million.

One thing to remember, the Phillies are probably also getting a 1st round or supplemental round pick in 2009 if Lidge leaves via free agency after next year.

ACK! NOOOOOOO!

Right after reading about a good trade, they are now set to overpay for Cordero and Linebrink!?! Linebrink has steadily declined 4 straight seasons with no indication that he will turn it around. Cordero is a bit mercurial.

Let Qualls close for 2008, maybe 2009. Expect at least a few of the youngsters (Estrada, Nieve, Albers, Sampson, Gutierrez) to be useful out of the bullpen. Try and sign a more under-the-radar bullpen arm like Jeremy Affeldt.

But don’t blow huge wads of cash on the bullpen!!! Follow the models of the Twins and Padres, who build great bullpens for nothing!!!

Correct me if Im wrong here but didnt we have a speedy young centerfielder named Willie Tavares just a few years ago? If this is what management thinks is most needed for this team, we are in for a long run of misery….

[Okay, you asked for it. You're wrong. The Astros have never had a player named Willie Taveras. Sorry. You must be thinking about some other sport or some other franchise.--Richard]

The more I think about it, the trade is a reverse Jason Jennings trade. Lidge is getting close to big money and it is unclear as you said whether he will ever be the Lidge of 2004 again. The players they got will be low dollar for a long time to come and one or two may end up being fixtures.

Still would have loved to package a Lidge for a stud starter, but if Wade will do this only a month or so into the job, maybe that trade for a No. 2 starter is around the corner.

Richard doesn’t like it when I bring up Willy T. I’m glad you did it for me.

[No, I like it. I think you should write me for the next 20 years and remind me that Tim Purpura made a stupid trade. I know it's a stupid trade. I wrote it at the time. I liked Jason Jennings, but I didn't like the trade. In fact, that was the headline on my article. But enough is enough. It's over. You're like one of the people who want to write in and whine about the Texans taking Mario Williams. They're still tortured almost two years after the fact. They can never watch another football game if Vince isn't playing. I mean, get over it. Think of something new. Yes, the Texans blew it. So far, Mario is a stiff. He's a first-class jerk, too. I have to tell you it was cute the first two dozen times you brought up Willy Taveras. Then I realized it's the most clever thing you have in your arsenal.--Richard]

That is true. But pretty much every bullpen decision the Padres makes works. The fact that they traded Linebrink in the middle of a pennant race to a team they were competing with in the wild card standings says a lot about Linebrink right now. He’s on the decline. K/9 have decline 4 straight years. OBP against has steadily risen over 4 years. He’s moving away from a great pitcher’s park. He will sign for 3 years (or more). He will cost a lot of $$ for a set-up guy when we already have Qualls for less.

As for Cordero, spending $10 million on a closer just isn’t wise for any team expect the top markets. The one thing the Astros have a lot of are young power-armed righties (Qualls, Gutierrez, Albers, Sampson, Estrada, etc.). One of these guys will be closer-worthy in 2 years, we just have to figure out who. In the meantime, Qualls could do a servicable job.

all Luke Scott fan’s get over yourself….he is not anything more special than Jason Lane….stop making him seem like the second coming of Bonds…we will not get a number 2 or 3 pitcher in a deal for him….move on

So does this mean they are giving up on Wiggington? I still don’t know why Mike Lamb is not given a shot to be our 3rd basemen. I think he is better/reliable than Ensberg was, Wigginton is and who knows of this new guy? Great, so we gave up our best bullpen pitcher for a 3rd basemen that might not be our starter or even on the team next year.

1) Traded for Michael Bourn, who seems to be only slightly better than Josh Anderson (or Willy T), begging the question, why give up an elite reliever for a player-type you already have? Geary is a typical middle reliever with nothing special about him, and Mike Costanzo seems to have decent upside, but isn’t exactly a prospect worth drooling over (yet).

2) Heavily diminished Luke Scott’s trade value. If the Astros are looking to deal Scott, good luck getting fair value for him now that all the other GMs know he’s expendable. (Much like the Texans and David Carr after the Schaub trade)

3) Ed Wade now has declared that he will presumably make a hard run at another closer, be it Francisco Cordero or one via trade (not that any team is looking to trade its closer)…meaning that now the Astros will be further pressured to overpay either for Cordero on the free agent market, or in prospects via the trade market.

In other words, the Astros have now put themselves in a position of vulnerability wherein other teams and agents don’t have to give the Astros fair market value for their needs.

On a more personal note, good luck to Brad Lidge in Philly. Fans there are so much nice than they are here. It’s a perfect place for a struggling pitcher to regain confidence, considering Lidge will probably be pelted with (glass) beer bottles and insults that would make George Carlin blush after he blows a save.

now if Wade can sign a second baseman and not play burke and lure willis from the marlins, we will be in real business. this move allows them to keep some money to do some big things with so hopefully the best is yet to come.

if they can me the necessary moves, he and Tal Smith deserve a lot of credit. not saying they are playoff material if these moves are made, but they will definitely be better than the misery we watched in 07.

Good point about this trade potentially reducing Luke Scott’s value. I’m still hoping the Astros can trade him to the Twins for one of their young starters. He’d fit their budget and be a good fit at DH.

Bourn should be better than Taveras. He already plays outstanding defense, whereas Taveras was still developing. He has a great arm. He took more walks throughout the minors. Assuming that translates to the majors, he’s a much better bet at leadoff than Taveras.

RJ – Speaking of buying closers for cheap, is pursuing Eric Gagne an option? He made $6M last year and after his horrendous showing in August and September last year, maybe he could be signed for substantially less than what Cordero will ask for?

If you’re right about the Kerry Wood thing, I actually believe that he will be good. He’ll porbably cost a lot, but has great upside, and over the past year he has been moderately good and succesful as a bullpen arm. He could be a great closer. I would actually rather have him than Cordero, but I’m probably in the minority on that.

Well, we got a CFer and someone that has the potential to play 3B someday. I hope Bourn works out. I thought we could have gotten more for Lidge, but I guess not. I have been looking at the FA list and the scouting reports on them. I suppose that Francisco Cordero will be a high target for our closer. I would like to mention some of the FAs I think are worth looking at :

Luis Castello, 32-great speed, quick feet, phenomenal range-can steal bases, good bunter, switch hitter w/line drive power from both sides. Could team well w/ Bourn as 1-2 in lineup.

Luis Rivas, 28-2B/SS-speedy IF who hangs in&lines breaking pitches to all fields-slick fielder w/strong arm-no power&K’s more than you would like.

Jose Guillen, 31 OF-one of the best arms in baseball, good raw power to all fields & HR power,118K/593 AB in ’07. Temper becoming troublesome in clubhouse-assign him to Carlos Lee,that should stop that.

Geoff Jenkins, 33 LH OF w/pop, especially against RH. Salary could be issue and would he accept role player in OF?

I’d like to remind RJ that we had a speedy cf that Purpura sent off for nothing now we send a pretty good closer off that might eventually cost 6 mill per year so we can bring in another closer that’ll probably cost 10 mill per year. JJO thinks we go for Willis from Florida, that would be good for us and hopefully let me begin to let the other gaffes go. Hows that Ricky

It seems to me that the only fans that like this trade are the ones who were wanting lidge out, or sports writers who wanted to see him get a fresh start. So what we got is an unproven speedy centerfielder, okay we already had one of those, a long middle relief arm, great another 4+ era, and a guy who hit 270 in AA, got one of those in cody ransom, BAD TRADE. I understand the farm system needs lots of help but that has to be fixed through drafts and scouting not trading away big league talent for players we already have. I’m especially disappointed because that means no Aaron Rowand who is great offensively and defensively. Rowand would have been a quality addition and we should have traded lidge for starting pitching. Ed is making the same mistakes he made in philly, BAD HIRE.

great, the astros trade away lidge so coco cordero can become their closer? i’m sorry, but when did cordero become an elite closer? he’s 32 years old and is gonna want a multi year deal, probaby something like 4 yrs at 30-40 mil, when he really hasn’t been all that great or consistent these last 3 yrs (2007 included, he had a 6.55 era on the road, that is not good). granted, some nights he’s electric, but there are others where he’s very hittable. the point is, i’m really not sure he’s better than brad, and more importantly, i can’t envision him getting the final out of the world series.

Costanzo is not the 3rd baseman of the future. He is a worthless throw-in.

Bourn makes the Astros offense significantly worse next year. He isnt a potential star….but Wade could have traded Lidge for a 70 year old one legged grandma to play CF and Justice would be praising Wade at this point. Too early in Wade’s tenure for Justice to do anything other than fawn over every move.

This is all Wade could get? A minor league 3rd baseman that will never see the majors and a fringe starting centerfielder that you already had in Josh Anderson?

This is not a good start for Wade.

He singled out a position (CF) that didnt really need to be fixed and traded his only valuable piece for a player that is below average at that position…..the position that you were already above average in!!!!

A good approach is to use your only tradeable pieces to improve areas….not to downgrade your team.

The Astros stunk last year (with Brad Lidge) and with a barren minor league system, there was no real hope to turn the situation around any time soon.

So the Astros went out, rid itself of an ongoing problem (Lidge), potentially solidified the center field and third base positions for years to come, added a veteran and reliable reliever, and the naysayers come out of the woodwork. Amazing!

Perhaps his recent knee surgery will help restore Lidge to his former self, but that remains to be seen. In 2007, Lidge was just as likely to give up a ninth inning home run as he was to record a save. I am sure that this was not lost on other general managers who may have been cautious about trading for Lidge.

Besides, a closer isn’t that valuable if you don’t enter the last inning with a lead. Other than Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee, our everyday lineup wasn’t that scary last year.

In addition, the old baseball rule that you have to be strong up the middle is absolutely true, especially with the vast center field that must be patrolled in Minute Maid Park. Bourn will take care of the center field position for a long, long, time. Meanwhile, Costanzo has only played two years of minor league ball after his college days, and appears to be a bona fide power hitter. He may end up being the best power hitting third baseman Houston has ever had.

Further, Lidge is now 30 and has a history of physical problems. In my opinion, you don’t wait until a player is completely washed up before you try to trade him. Ed Wade showed that he understands this concept, which is refreshing for a Houston GM.

Again, in one move the Astros got younger and better for years to come, and this will also allow Wade to spend money in other areas besides center field now, such as pitching and perhaps second base. The trade may also free up other players to be traded. The pieces of what seemed like a difficult puzzle to solve may now be falling into place.

I wish Brad Lidge all the luck in the world, but Astros fans need to realize that there were not many players the Astros could have traded that would have brought them this much long term potential. Yes, the new acquisitions will have to prove it on the field, and may eventually not pan out but at least we are not sitting on our fannies, which was something Tim Purpura specialized in.

The exciting thing is that this transformation has just started, and methinks that there will be plenty more to come.

The NL Central Division crown is not held by a perennial powerhouse, and with a few more smart moves, the Astros might just end up contending again next season. This night was, in my opinion, a good start.

Didnt I read here last year that losing Willie T was no big deal? Now you are excited to get a guy with a lesser BA and very average OBP numbers in the ML (I enjoy you using his minor league numbers and glossing over what he did where it counts). ANd not as good defensively as Willie.

The pitcher is an irrelevant throw in. The 3B – we need one but a guy with good AA numbers – those are almost a dime a dozen. If he was that great Amaro would have never included him in this deal.

Cordero – guess who he compares to? That’s right – the same guy we just dumped.

PS I liked the audio bit on how Lidge’s teammates had no confidence in him. Of course you never had written that before had you?

If you look closely at the Phillies scouting reports on Bourn & Constanzo, I would say both were rated a mid-level prospects at best. Bourn is a one tool player (speed) and Constanzo has shown to be a below average defensive third baseman, even in the minors (34 errors this year). The third player, Geary, sounds like just another warm body for the bullpen. I know that the Astros’ management are trying to do something, but is this the best we could put together?

For those knocking the trade, Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus, who is considerable smarter then the rest of us rabble (except for Richard – remember me when you get the ESPN gig!) titled his blog entry on the trade “Ed Wade’s Revenge”.

He wraps up the post with the following nugget: “Bourn has five more full seasons until he hits free agency, and Costanzo has six. All together, that’s 11 seasons of below-market performance that the Phillies traded away … in exchange for one season of below-market performance from Lidge.

Yes, Lidge is a good fit for the Phillies, and he’ll make them better in 2008. But the price was not right.”

Chris Burke had a .369 OBP in the minors over significantly more AB’s. A .377 OBP in the majors would be nice, but unlikely. Bourne has little power. At least he can hit the ball out of the infield, unlike Willy T. So, he has more upside than willy, but that really is not saying much. He is a long way from a Hunter or Rowand. By going with a no power center fielder, the Astros have to get more power elsewhere.

“Mike Costanzo is an outstanding power prospect at third base.”

Constanzo’s power has declined considerbly since going from college to pro. He has potential, but far from a sure prospect.

Geoff Geary is nothing more than a middle releiver who can be used sparingly.

Bruntlett was never goling to be a star, but he was a a very flexible utilty player to have. With Lamb being gone, might Luke Scott become the lefty bat off the bench? With both Scott and Anderson, Palmeiro and his salary can be dropped. With Bruntlett gone, Burke may end up in a utilty role if Castillo is signed. If the Astros don’t sign a second baseman, trade Scott, and don’t resign Loretta, their bench will be in poor shape.

I am not going to judge this trade right now. As the first trade in a very early off season, I am going to wait to see if another shoe drops. I have to believe that something else is in the works. Otherwise, it makes no sense to fill a hole and open a another.

For what it’s worth, Costanzo was ranked as the Phillies’ No. 1 prospect by Baseball America in September. Plus, just think of all the Seinfeld jokes we’ll be able to make. My biggest concern about Bourn is that he is very short, something like 5-foot-9. He’ll really have to outrun some balls in the outfield. But I like that we brought a local kid back home.

Could we have gotten more for Lidge right now? Not sure. Would any team really swap us legitimate Major League starters for him? I dunno. Wade might have done the best he could, and by making a move early in the off-season he at least took advantage of a deal that was there and left himself plenty of time to do whatever comes next.

I’ll say it one more time: Because our division is so weak, even a mediocre Astros team has a chance to make the post-season in 2008. At this point, I’m more encouraged than discouraged about what Wade is doing and I appreciate that he is being aggressive.

I’m an Astros fan, and I love this deal for several of the reasons that ‘mymrbig’ pointed out and then some.

Lidge-1 Year of Approx. $7M uncertain production, and

Bruntlett-Loveable, but replaceable utility guy

-For-

Bourn-A 24 year old CF under control for 5 years. No, he won’t hit HRs like Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand [other, more expensive CF options the team was considering], but he’s your leadoff hitter for 5 years at a minimum. Hitting? According to Nate Silver with BP, the average NL center fielder had a .273/.336/.426 line last year. Any doubters that Bourn’s .277/.348/.378 line in 119 ABs will rise towards, but not eclipse, his .284/.378/.392 minor league line if Bourn gets 590 ABs? I don’t care about slugging from a leadoff guy; I’ll take OBP. The best OBPs from NL CF’s [min. 300 AB] last year were: .374 [Rowand], .371 [Hopper], .368 [Hamilton], .367 [Taveras], .363 [Spilborghs], .Pence [.360]. Any doubters that he won’t be in their neighborhoods with OBP? Speed? 18 steals in 19 attempts last year in pinch runs and 119 ABs. Mark it down: he’ll steal 50+ next year, with a success rate in the high 80 percentile. Defense? Before this year, Baseball Prospectus believe he’d be better [+2 defensively for people who speak BP defensive numbers] than Andruw Jones [-4], Torii Hunter [-2], and Hunter Pence [-2]; he’s a “plus defender in center field with outstanding range and a strong arm” according to Baseball America.

Costanzo-Cue the Jason Alexander jokes…now. Hitting? His line last year of .270/.368/.490 with 27 HR in AA shows he’ll immediately be the team’s top corner infield prospect. Baseball America viewed him as the best power hitting prospect in the Phillies system – before his career best marks of slugging .490 and hitting 27 HR. Defense? BP listed him as [+3] at 3B. Future? At 24. he’ll play in Round Rock [AAA] next year; the Astros may have found their 2009 opening day 3B in this trade. He’ll totally make you forget about Ty Wigginton’s .278/.333/.459 line.

Geary-He’s been bipolar, ranging from a 2.96 to a 5.44 ERA. At a minimum, he’s no worse than Dave Borkowski. At a maximum, he’s a 2.96 ERA setup guy. An interesting note: his career ERA of 3.94 is better than Dan Wheeler’s, 2007′s initial setup guy’s, ERA of 4.09. Just food for thought.

In sum? We traded Lidge [1 Year of control - approx. $7M] and an internally replaceable utility guy for a 24 year old CF [5 years of control - cheap!], the organizations new #1 Corner IF prospect [6 years of control - cheap!] and probable 2009 opening day 3B, and a serviceable [at worst] bullpen arm.

The only question, how do we replace Lidge? The most popular answer is to sign Cordero. He’ll cost either 4 years/$44M or 5 years/$55M; likely $4M more in ’08 than Lidge would cost them. Is he an upgrade over Lidge? Absolutely. Which is better: Lidge + $4M or Cordero, Bourn, Costanzo, and Geary? It’s a no-brainer.

Now, Luke Scott is as good as gone. I doubt he’ll fetch anything near his true worth. Some team will get .270/.370/.500 with 25-30 HRs on the cheap. Regardless, Wade needs to look at middle infield prospects to fetch for Scott.

Currently, the ‘Stros are looking at around $68M-$69M after all the arbitration whatnot. Sign Coco, they’re looking at $79-$80M, which is over $7M under ’07s payroll and over $12M under ’06s. Sign Luis Castillo for this year, you’re around $86M. After subtracting Woody Williams’ $6.25M in the ’08 offseason, sign a bonafide #2 starter when there is an actual #2 on the market worth signing. You’ll enter ’09 with a payroll in the low to mid $90M range, and a team that can compete. This is possibly a quick turnaround for a franchise I thought was doomed for a minimum of 4 years.

I like this deal, and I like the future of the Astros. Ed Wade, I take back half the bad things I said about you.

I’m not particularly happy about this trade, but that aside what I really don’t understand is the timing and the way it was handled.

If in fact you’re looking to trade Lidge, why not put him “on the blocks” and see what value can be had for him rather than pulling the trigger quickly on this deal. Moreover, I think we’re now in a position to have to overpay for Cordero, as now he and his agent know we pretty much have to sign him.

Finally, I feel re-Bourned! Thanks Big E for talkin the talk n walkin the walk! I love lidge but c’mon…. A new era has oficially begun and i know the pieces will come together. (still early) Looks like uncle D saved a little but i hope its for bigger FISH to come…. Resign Jennings, package him with Wandy, and Patton for D-TRAIN!!Then get new life services retiree to bring back his BFF to tuck his tail between his legs and come home again. You know we are forgiving fans… Right? Let’s see, retire or make a cool 18 mil.Hmmmmmmmmmm.Come on in Andy, the waters fine!! Imagine……Roy-O,Willis,Pettite, Backe, n Williams

I’m on the middle of the fence regarding this trade. I presume, as with any other trade, its true value will be determined well after this deal was made in retrospect. Anyway, since we’re all enjoying speculating and dreaming of next year with a hopefully re-vamped club I’d like to issue my best-case, worse-case, and most likely LINEUP for next season (starters only). Here goes.

We’d all like to see the best-case first:

1 – Bourn

2 – Castillo

3 – Lee

4 – Berkman

5 – Pence

6 – Wiggington

7 – Loretta

8 – Towles/Ausmus

9 – P

Worse-case:

1 – Bourn

2 – Burke

3 – Lee

4 – Berkman

5 – Pence

6 – Wiggington

7 – Towles/Ausmus

8 – Everett

9 – P

Realistic Lineup:

1 – Bourn

2 – Pence

3 – Lee

4 – Berkman

5 – Wiggington

6 – Burke

7 – Everett

8 – Towles/Ausmus

9 – P

I hope Coop doesn’t throw a top-heavy lineup out there i.e. Bourn, Pence, Lee, Berkman, Wiggington, Loretta/Burke, Towels/Ausmus, Everett, P. If he were do so then we’d only have a decent shot at driving in runs every 3 innings or so. We need balance in the lineup to score runs consistently throughout the game.

Now its off to the books for me to pull an all-nighter to study for my Genetics test at noon tomorrow (well, actually, it’s already the day of my test now…stupid clock)

Maybe a few years from now this trade will be seen as being a steal as another Astros-Philly trade a long time ago: decent reliever at the time (Larry Andersen) for young up-and-coming stud (Jeff Bagwell). We can only hope.

Bad trade. Wade must still be working for the Phillies. Bourn is unproven. If we were going to play an unknown quantity at CF, we might as well as have played Josh Anderson, who was impressive during his late call up. We should have used Lidge to trade for a starting pitcher. Now that we announced that Bourn is playing CF, and Hunter is playing RF, that leaves Luke Scott out. Now we will have a harder time getting value for Scott, because other teams already know that he expendable. Wade seems to be trying to get his old job back with the Phillies. Horrible trade for the Astros.

HMMMM this one makes me think. Do the Astros go after speed castillo? I thought bourne is gonna be our lead off hitter. Any chance of something big happening, you mentioned D-Train. Do we have enough to offer for that deal?

They probably would have received more for Lidge if they had traded him in July when he briefly bounced back, but at this point this was the most both clubs could have done. Lidge is a risk in Philly with their hitter-friendly park, and all three Houston acquired are risks. Geary appears to be no better than their current farm arms. Bourn is punch-and-judy hitter like Taveras, but it’s always nice to have another outstanding defensive CF in the huge center at the Juice Box (hope he has Willy T’s arm). Costanzo sounds like a Mike Lamb clone with nice left-handed pop but no glove. All in all, a decent try for upgrading but I wish a try at Hunter would have been made. Probably doubtful because I think Hunter wants to play in the biggest media market he can land. Let’s hope Willis is the next name we hear landing in Houston.

He could play 3B and bat better than Wigginton. In 63 AB he had 2 doubles, 3 triples, 2 home runs and 7 RBI’s while batting .286. In the 9th spot. That’s twice what Everett or Burke can do in a full season. Pinch hit him instead of Palmeiro.

did you just call Lidge an “elite” reliever? How can a guy that has been demoted from the closer role 4 times be considered elite??? How can a guy who finished second in blown saves, that’s his JOB, be considered elite.

We got a starting CF, average reliever, and a prospect at 3B for a closer that has long since lost his touch and a utility player. Not a bad trade at all.

So essentiallly we traded Brad Lidge for Willy Taveras?? I’ll take it! As someone stated earlier, Brad had a great run while in Houston, he needs a change in scenery. I hope and pray Bruntlett gets a chance. Sitting behinfd the great Adam Everett, I fear he’d have never gotten the chance he deserves here. All in all, I like it..Good Job Stros..

RJ

Does that 3B base prospect mean that we have 0 interest in Miguel Cabrerra? The Marlins are shopping him, so one would think, we can take him if the price is right..

trading options, luke scott and ty wiggington and a young relief pitcher: for the dodgers jason shmidt if they are willing to eat some of his huge salary. nate robinson, lefty with alot of potential in the N.L. Ervin Santana, he had an off year but could still bounce back in the N.L. as well.Dontrelle Willis if the marlins are on drugs.

Hey Richard – - Correct me if I’m wrong here but didn’t we have a speedy young second baseman by the name of Joe Morgan around 3 decades ago? I think we got Lee May and Tommy Helms in return. . . . . in the long run, that trade didn’t work out very well either. Meanwhile Joe Morgan goe on to the Hall Of Fame. . . . Tongue in cheek Mr. Justice. . .just making light of one of your emailers. Seriously I’m sorry to see Brad go. Even though he had some hard times here. . .he was a man about it. .and never ran away from it and he wasn’t an A-hole. Good luck to you Brad.

I don’t like the deal. Not because of moving Lidge, but it once again demonstrates to me that on the cheap and a true lack of appreciation for the nature of today’s game will dminate the Astros thinking as long as Tal Smith exercises a dominant role in playre personnel.

Michael Bourn better turn out to be Jose Reyes in the leadoff spot and do it fast or his 1 home run per year will not be much of an improvement. Whatever we do at 2nd base at will still lave us with Punch & Judy…and Judy when you include Everret in the lineup ..making up 2/3 or the veryday lineup.

As for money, I guess we can now go spend 6-8 million on another burnt up veteran like Jon Lieber.

Let the kids pitch and build an aggressive everyday lineup. It appears to have worked for the Tigers.

I hope I have to eat my words, but I don’t see this as a better option than signing Rowand or Hunter. If they have already indicated no interest than I still think we better figure out a better , more offensive solution at 2nd than the current or reported options.

I think it a good trade plus we do not know the converstations Wade has had in Florida. I would like to see a Dontrelle Willis here and I hope the rumor is true.

Wade may have had conversations with Rowand and knew he was not coming here and maybe Florida will take Luke along with a pitcher for Dontrelle. Wouldn’t it be cool to have an elite lefty plus a rookie lefty in the same rotation.

I am all for waiting and seeing before we get to spring training.

AND

Please stop talking about Willy T. Willy is gone, he could not hit in pressure situation and he sat out in the World Series for not producing in a pressure situation. He was good when he had no one on base with no outs in the beginning of games.

If Bourne is as good as Willy T. plus be able to hit in pressure situation, we have upgraded.

Also, I noticed a lot of revisionist Astros history going on in here. The Pujols home run didn’t ruin Lidge. He was struggling a long time before that home run. Remember game 4 of the 2005 NLCS? How about the last game of the 2005 regular season?

I like the trade, we get something for Lidge rather than losing him to free agency. Plus, I did a little research on Bourn and it looks like he goes all out on every play. I love watching players like that.

[Lidge had converted 24 straight save chances when he blew that one on the final Friday of the 2005 regular season. He then closed out the last game of the regular season. That's 25 of 26 to finish the season. If that's your definition of struggling, you've got some pretty high standards.--Richard]

Nice to quote Baseball Prospectus, but you should throw in the ESPN and FoxSports evaluation of the trade. They seem to think the Phillies are laughing all the way to the playoffs.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. You guys were talking Hunter and Rowand. Any realist knew they wouldn’t be here. So now you are beating the drum for Bourn. The Astros seem to be the only team that considers him a starter. It has been said before, but if the Phillies think they might lose Rowand, why would the let Bourn go?

It’s a nice trade for the most part, since we got younger and cheaper, and closers can come from surprising places – maybe even from within the organization.

It will be disappointing if we sign an expensive closer in the aftermath – that would undo much of the benefit of this trade.

One weakness that now needs to be addressed – lack of power in the lineup (with Scott no longer a starter). Our next step should be to upgrade offensively at either 2B, 3B, or SS. It would be nice if we trade for one rather than sign a FA, but we don’t have many strong trading chips left . . .

“Bourn has five more full seasons until he hits free agency, and Costanzo has six. All together, that’s 11 seasons of below-market performance that the Phillies traded away”

Yeah, and Taveras and Hirsh had multiple controllable years. Luke Scott still has them but we don’t want him for some reason. Josh Anderson is Michael Bourn without the suitcase, but oh…Bourn is from Texas!

Sounds like it’s all about money and home cooking. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Why is saving money the driving force?

I came to the sad conclusion that Brad probably was done in Houston, but I think we could have gotten better value in return. Let’s hope the 3B guy pans out and Bourn becomes Ichiro.

We’re not at all impressed with Ed Wade’s first move as Houston’s GM. Bourn could have a long career as a fair regular, but he’s basically another Willy Taveras for the Astros. If Lidge’s arrival in Philadelphia results in Brett Myers’ return to the rotation, this could be a big winner for Pat Gillick. Geary is an average middle reliever and Costanzo’s a long shot to have a career, so this basically boils down to Lidge for Bourn. Lidge is only under control for one more year, so it’s not a huge slam dunk. Still, turning Myers back into a starter gives the Phillies a bigger rotation upgrade than they possibly could have picked up in free agency. Nov. 7 – 10:56 pm et

On PTI, Wilbon said that the Florida Marlins should be contracted. No fan support, etc… but, he did say that they were a great judge of talent, and were poised for another WS run.. Well, after two WS championships… Do you think it could be in the Astros’ best interest to GO RAID THE SCOUTING DEPARTMENT of the Florida Marlins, before they are contracted.. or moved????

at first, I was angry that the Astros traded for so little, it seemed. Then I really thought it out and it didn’t seem so bad. I would rather have Bourn than Anderson in center. I just can’t see Josh producing for a whole major league season when he hit like .270 in the minors. Geary replaces Moehler in the bullpen. And I’m guessing Ransom replaces Bruntlett. And that 3B Costanzo, I don’t know what to think of him. Now we have a hole to fill in the closer role. Within the club? Nieve? Sarfate? or through free agency, Cordero?

I like that Wade is contacting so many free agents. Hopefully he can fill the remaining holes. Good luck Astros in 2008.

Do you think the upcoming Mitchell Report and associated 50 game suspensions might be the main reason it looks like Andy and Roger are really “retiring” this offseason? Its not like they havent been linked to HGH/steroid use…

nate

[Ask me that question after the report is released. I'm sure there are lots of nervous players, especially with the news that an active player has or will be talking to Mitchell.--Richard]

New GM, same results! They get taken to the cleaners!! Is Bourn much different then Josh Anderson? He is just as unproven! Geary flat out stinks to use a nice term and the 3B prospect isn’t a top prospect!!

Is “that list” the list that will be included in the Mitchell report or is he referring to something else? While I’ve believed for quite some time that Clemens and probably Pettitte use performance enhancing drugs I’ve never seen that allegation in print by a credible journalist. Do you know anything about this? If their names are in Mitchell’s report that would be very big news.

Also, on Lidge, if you’ll recall the wheels started coming off before the Pujols bomb in Game 5 of the NLCS. He started having problems in the second half of the 2005 season. While plausible, I think it’s hard to say that Lidge would have gotten back to his dominant form but for that home run. Regardless, like you, I genuinely like and respect the guy and hope he is reborn in Philly. Lord help him if he’s not, given the brutal Philadelphia press and fan base.

[I'm having Phil on my radio show today, but we've been told by people up on the masthead at MLB that Mitchell will name names, dates, places, etc., in his report.--Richard]

You can still struggle and get the save. For example, game 4 of the NLCS, and the very last game of the 2005 regular season. How about instead of saying he was struggling I’ll say he was still a good closer but wasn’t as solid as he had been in the past? I just don’t blame it all on Pujols. Lidge was unravelling before that. Yeah, he was good and getting saves but he wasn’t dominant. Again, I think it’s the dramatic thing to say it was Pujols fault, but I disagree. Heck, if he had just given up a home run to Pujols, we would have still won the game. The problem Lidge was having is that he gave up a hit to Eckstein and walked Edmonds. That’s the kind of struggling I’m talking about.

So we now have 2 speedy outfield guys that we have either traded for or signed. (Abercrombie and Bourn) So we trade Luke Scott, Wiggington and a young arm, possibly Wandy to the Marlins for Dontrelle. Sign Cabrera to take over at third. The deal works out for the Marlins because it takes their entire payroll and they can give it to A-Rod so that he can come home and break the Homerun Record in a Marlins Uniform, hopefully against the Braves. Then the Astros can sign any of the 2nd Base FA and we will hopefully be a contender. That would give the AStros the youth movement they have been looking for, for some time now. Maybe they can throw some money at Kenny Rodgers also to come in and play another year as teh #3 starter behind Big O and the D Train. We could have a lineup that looks like this:

Bourn

Castillo/Taguchi

Cabrera

Lee

Berkman

Pence

Towles

Everett

Roy O/D-Train/Rodgers/Albers/Sampson

Looks pretty formidable with the two speed guys at the top. Everett gets his Gold Glove and makes everyone forget about his bat and Lee breaks the Astros RBI record.

Prior to the Pujols moonshot, Lidge was struggling. He blew a game against the Cubs that would’ve have sewn up the NL wildcard and wasn’t himself against Atlanta either. Lidge couldn’t go an inning without walking three guys.

In the NLCS Lidge barely escaped from disaster in games 3 (after giving up a run) and needed a dramatic DP to escape game 4.

I am confused. I thought Ed Wade was no longer the Phillies GM. He did more for them last night than his entire tenure there before.

I don’t like this trade a bit. Bourn is unproven. I would rather have an OF of Lee, Pence, & Scott, as opposed to Lee, Bourn, & Pence. At least Scott’s OPS is 100 points higher than Bourn’s. I am not impressed with Ed Wade’s first move as our GM. I am not saying Scott is the answer, but I like him better than Bourn. What am I missing? What are they seeing in Bourn, when he hasn’t even had a chance to prove himself at the big league level?

And another thing. Am I royally missing something here? I could have sworn that Lidge was looking a lot better last year in the 2nd half? Why stick with him struggling for 2 years just to give up on him when he starts coming around again?

I am actually not opposed to trading Lidge. But I am opposed to getting rid of him and getting nothing in return, while making one of the best NL teams even better. I think this weakens our offense. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Although I know it had to be done, I will be sad not to see Lidge in an Astros uniform next year. I was pulling for him to shake it off. I hope he and Bruntlett both do well with the Phillies next year.

Brad Lidge was the most stand up guy ever to play in Houston. He seemed to be without ego. He was cordial, available, and willing to accept blame. Rare for a man with a big contract. He pitched on a bum leg last season which I’m sure affected his mechanics. I don’t know Michael Bourn and am not impressed any longer with potential. Willie T. had potential as well as speed. He just couldn’t get the ball out of the infield with any power.

The last thing this team needed was a speedy banjo hitter with a low OBP. We already have one of those playing shortstop. And I always liked Bruntlett. He always seemed to make a play in the clutch. I never understood why he was always getting sent down to keep Lunk Lane on the roster. Well, I hope this works out. But right now, I think the Astros will rue the day they sent Lidge packing. The man will eventually be a

dominant closer a la Trevor Hoffman who also went through periodic tough times.

Mike to put it simply, you’re wrong. This trade could work out in the way you suggested which would be a good thing provided the Astros get fair value for Luke Scott. And because this trade means Scott is out the door you have to consider that when evaluating this trade. My biggest problem with your analysis is that you’re considering these guys we got sure things and they are not. Far from it. With his limited experience, Bourn is basically another minor leaguer who could turn into another flop. When you trade a guy like Lidge, you need to get at least one guy who is a sure thing along with other prospects. The Astros are still feeling the effects of getting nothing in return for Billy Wagner. By the way, who did we trade him to? Hmm. The trade could work out which is better than can be said for any Purpura trade. But the key word is COULD. The Astros needed more than that for Lidge.

I like the trade. With a few exceptions, I generally believe that relievers, even closers, are overrated and overpaid. If you can get a good package of position players or starters for one (plus a throw-in utility infielder) you should do it. I still think they could have gotten more for Lidge at the trade deadline last year.

Let’s not forget that, in addition to filling a hole at Leadoff/CF, adding a prospect to the farm, bringing in another arm for the pen: we have freed up some money to chase a FA or sweeten the deal in another trade.

Also, like many on this board, it’s just nice to see some aggresive moves from the front office. It’s been analysis paralysis for a couple of years. Wade is impressing me so far.

Even before the Pujols homerun he was starting to become a little dicey in save situations. He blew a lead vs. the Cubs in the last series of 2005 which would have clinched the series and really scuffled in the last game of that series before getting the final out on a line drive. He also made me very nervous in the NLCS in game 3 giving up a run in the ninth and had a runner in scoring position. In game 4 he allowed the tying run to reach third base twice, thankfully the defense saved the day. I think the Pujols homer just sent him of the edge. Imagine what will happen when he faces Lidge in a save situation in Philly and gives up the bomb.

I’m glad that Lidge gets a new lease in life with the Phillies. Despite his latest struggles, he handled himself with class and distinction. Lidge is one of baseball’s good guys and I hope he flourishes in Philly…except when he’s facing the ‘Stros.

Is “that list” the list that will be included in the Mitchell report or is he referring to something else? While I’ve believed for quite some time that Clemens and probably Pettitte use performance enhancing drugs I’ve never seen that allegation in print by a credible journalist. Do you know anything about this? If their names are in Mitchell’s report that would be very big news.

Also, on Lidge, if you’ll recall the wheels started coming off before the Pujols bomb in Game 5 of the NLCS. He started having problems in the second half of the 2005 season. While plausible, I think it’s hard to say that Lidge would have gotten back to his dominant form but for that home run. Regardless, like you, I genuinely like and respect the guy and hope he is reborn in Philly. Lord help him if he’s not, given the brutal Philadelphia press and fan base.

[I'm having Phil on my radio show today, but we've been told by people up on the masthead at MLB that Mitchell will name names, dates, places, etc., in his report.--Richard]

###################################

Doesn’t matter about the list. ESPN type media is already changing sports watchers mind about the seriousness of steroid use. Not a big deal’. And the guys that get caught just say something like ” oh yeah, i did use hgh(etc) it was prescribed by my DR er dentist for a problem I had with my brain” and good ole forgiving us feel all warm and lovin and happy to not have to throw our guy under the bus. Relax Roge. Work on your story.

You make a good point regarding OBP Ike, but I can’t believe that you based your OBP numbers on 300 AB’s which is well below what is needed to qualify as a league leader. Included Willy T’s OBP in there with the National League CF leaders when he did not even have enough AB’s to qualify is misleading. Had Willy played regularly, he would be back to his typiocal .350 OBP – well below what is needed for a quality leadoff hitter.

As for all of the other rediculous comparisons to Willy T… Bourne is unproven, but he has two things that Willy T does not: Ability to take a walk and the ability to hit the ball out of the infield. Fact is that Willy never has had the skills needed to be a quality leadoff hitter or well rounded CF’er. It remains to be seen what Bourne will do, but he has way more upside than Willy.

Personally, I think a team needs more power out of center; if not, then somewhere else. 3rd base is generally considered a power hitter spot as well and Wiggy is not an elite power hitter, so the Astros need some additional power somewhere.

I am also amazed at everyone that thinks that Scott is automatically out the door. With Lamb gone, if Scott leaves, who will be the left handed power bat off the bench? Can someone please answer this? Palmeiro and Anderson do not have any power. Scott is under club control and is cheap. If the Astros can be overwhelmed by trading him, then do it; otherwise, he should be off the bench.

I seriously doubt the Astros ever considered Cabrera. He is going to command to much money, the Marlins are going to command players/prospects we don’t have, and we have bigger holes to fill.

The people upset about not getting SP or SP prospects in return for Lidge is humorous to me. Why would anyone give us a SP or prospect, especially in the #2 range, for Lidge? He has been average at best for the past 2 years and is still a gamble. The only way he would command that kind of return is if he still pitched his pre-Pujols form, in which case we wouldn’t trade him. The only way to get SP or SP prospects right now is trading an all-star type player that fills the other team’s holes or SP. Scott nor Lidge would have, or will not get that.

This team still has a long way to go and Im excited about the direction they have already started this offseason, but lets not be too hasty.

Ouch. That’s all you got for Brad Lidge? If you’d traded him at the deadline last year, you could have gotten double or triple that value. This franchise really doesn’t have a clue, does it?

Bourne is okay, his biggest asset is speed. He’s not a great hitter, nor a very good on base guy, though he may improve, being only 24.

I think Mike Constanzo may end up being the biggest part of that deal, as he’s shown good power in AA.

Still, it’s not a good deal for the Astros. You have no closer, you lose one of your top bullpen arms, and you get far less value than you could have gotten had you simply traded Lidge last year, or even the year before, when you should have.

“Bourn-A 24 year old CF under control for 5 years. he’s your leadoff hitter for 5 years at a minimum.”

I’m fairly sure that Bourn, like every other player, is going to be eligible for arbitration in a few years, so he’s definitely going to make more than just 350K for the next five years.

“I don’t care about slugging from a leadoff guy; I’ll take OBP. The best OBPs from NL CF’s [min. 300 AB] last year were: .374 [Rowand], .371 [Hopper], .368 [Hamilton], .367 [Taveras], .363 [Spilborghs], .Pence [.360]. Any doubters that he won’t be in their neighborhoods with OBP?”

1) Most of those guys aren’t asked to bat leadoff.

2) Bourn had a .377 OBP in 4 years in the minors. Which normally translates to about a .350 or so in the majors. That’s not spectacular. Especially not for a leadoff guy.

“Maybe a few years from now this trade will be seen as being a steal as another Astros-Philly trade a long time ago: decent reliever at the time (Larry Andersen) for young up-and-coming stud (Jeff Bagwell). We can only hope.”

Yeah, Jef Bagwell was acquired from Boston, and not Philly. But other than that, it’s EXACTLY the same deal!

I saw that you said Mario Williams was a “first-class jerk.” He always seemed like he was kind of unapproachable. He seems like he resents the attitudes of the fans towards him because: a) we wanted VY or Bush or b) is mad because we are calling him out on his “productivity” and tired of just hearing Kubiaks “good grades”.

Was a prior experience of trying to talk to him that made you call him a jerk? Just curious…

[He was outstanding last year, but has completely changed this year. He's rude, short and condescending.--Richard]

This trade is definetely good for the Astros. Obviously, Lidge had higher value at the deadline, cause at that point he was on a hot streak, and teams were desperate, but this was a good enough load now. Bourn is at worst a sppedster (50+ steals), with great fielding and no power. At best hes a great lead-off guy, with great speed and fielding and sub-par power: all in all better than Willy T. Lidge was a headcase in Houston. He choked in the ’05 playoffs, and never really rebounded. His great work as a set-up guy made his ERA and strikeout numbers mask his true inability to close games in Houston. Remember, his first save opportunity after getting the job back this year he blew a 2-1 win for Roy O.

Don’t really care about Bruntlett leaving. The only thing i’ll remember about him was the DP he turned to save Lidge’s Be-Hind in NCLS Game 4. Costanzo is a good power hitter, with a good OBP and good Slugging. Obviously his fielding and strikeout numbers are red-flags, but in Baseball America’s prospects book (a much better authority than ESPN or FOX Sports), he’s rated highly, as is Bourn. Geary is just as good, if not better, than our current 6th inning/long-range relievers (Moehler, Borkowski), and has had productivbe years in the past. This was a great deal to free up payroll forr better signings, and gives the Astros a starting CF under team control for 5 years, and a intriguing prospect, for a closer who might flee town after a year anyway. It wasn’t a great trade prospect wise, like what Timmy P could have gotten at the deadline (Clay Bucholz anyone??), but a good start by Wade to free up payroll for Cordero (who is better than Lidge) or D-Train.

Haven’t read any comments, but one thing very important about this trade is it either signals Drayton’s willingness to let EW made actual decisions, or Drayton’s willingness to make significant moves that might involve getting rid of popular “good guys.” And it represents a departure from relying on high-priced, past their prime talent and shows a shift to stockpiling young promising players (no more Doug Drabeks or Woody Williams).

You interviewed the baseball writer for the Philadelphia Inquirer on your radio show. Why don’t you write about what he said about the players we received in the trade? Of course, if you take that direction it could get you pushed outside of the Astros media loop. Once you were not an insider, your writing was better then.

[I wrote my blog last night. I had Jim Salisbury of the Philadelphia Inquirer on this morning. Also, I'm writing about the trade for the Houston Chronicle for Friday's paper. But you're onto something. No way I'm writing something that would make the Astros mad at me. You don't get a corner suite at the spring training hotel by making people mad.--Richard]

Bourn has tremendous speed and hustle. I watched the game last year in Wrigley where he unfortunately injured himself on the bullpen mound trying to make a sliding catch. The Astros need hustle-types to make up for Charlie No Hustles Lee and Berkman. For the money I like him much more than Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter. Lidge could be replaced by Kyle Farnsworth, and the Yankees might even chip in some salary.

What’s done is done. Time will tell how good of a deal it was for the Astros. Let’s consider our next move wisely when it comes to Luke Scott. I am not sure what we can get for Scott put a quality 2nd in the rotation seems excessive. That stated, if the Astros can’t find a trading partner that is willing to give up some value for Scott, I say keep him. Scott is a left handed stick with decent power. Every team needs one of those. He’s relatively cheap and one injury away from being an everyday player again. Is there anyway the Twins would consider Santana for Pence? If so, Scott is your RF again.

All of us, myself included, seem to have concluded Lidge’s down-turn was mental and due to the Pujols’ HR. Did Lidge ever talk candidly to you or anyone else about what was going on in his mind? Did he have panic attacks, nightmares, flashbacks? Was he thinking about that HR on the mound? Did he work with a sports psychologist? From everything I ever read Lidge was a class act. I hope he succeeds in Philly. I just wish we had gotten more for him.

[He wouldn't let us go there. He wasn't rude. It was just a topic he declined to talk much about. I would be willing to bet he saw a sports psychologist, but that was never confirmed.--Richard]

This trade smells entirely of another cost cutting measure by the Astros front office. Typical business from Drayton Mclane. Brad Lidge, while I agree he had to go, had much more trade value than a player with 34 major league hits. Michael Bourn might turn out to be an above average player but after 122 MLB games, there is absolutely nothing to back that up. A very poor on base avg combined with low batting avg means this kid is going to have to turn his game in a hurry to help this team everyday. How ironic it is that the Astros drafted this kid and refused to pay him and now seven years later they trade their only ace in the hole for the same kid. If this is what they ultimately wanted, they should have held on to WillY T. If the Astros are going to keep butts in the seats I would suggest a major free agent deal be completed by mid December or season ticket sales will fall sharply and they should until the front office makes it clear to the paying fan that they are making genuine improvements to this team!

why is every single person on here bashing wade? I guess they do not realize that is was WADE who saw cole hamels, ryan howard, and chase utley make it to the big leagues. I think he knows exactly what he is doing and how to evaluate talent. this is why he is GM.

and correct me if i am wrong, but weren’t people in houston saying bring bourn to houston to play center? yep, that’s what i thought. hypocrites.

To some people who have posted earlier about building a bullpen cheaply, dropping names of a few fortunate teams- is this strategy really that intelligent? And if we didn’t have a “cheap” bullpen last year, exactly what did we have in 2007? The mid-priced less efficient model? Did GM or Ford build our last bullpen? Should we buy Japanese?

Please tell me that there is a logic-driven strategy for our bullpen. And please save our starting pitching corps!

Just tell me what in our pitching “status quo” makes the Kerry Wood consideration stupid? There are NO available sure-thing starting pitching prospects floating out there. I will have to see it to believe it if/when Johan Santana or Dontrelle Willis wear an Astros uniform.

For a lesson on the ignorance of neglecting starting or relief pitching of any kind, please refer to the history of the Texas Rangers baseball team. Sure, some detractors may point to some of their efforts and acquisitions, but take a look at their long-term big picture. A-Rod could have hit 90 HR’s there in a season just to watch another 14-10 loss.

It all starts with pitching. I hope Wade pulls some things out of his hat in the next 5 months.

“No way I’m writing something that would make the Astros mad at me. You don’t get a corner suite at the spring training hotel by making people mad”

We will pay for the suite – don’t worry about that. But, please write about this trade I think that once again we have been had in this trade. Our consolation is that we will get to see Lidge pitching in the playoffs next year.

This trade was a good one. People are saying that Bourne only had 18 steals, last season over 105 games, but if you look he only had 118 at bats. Imagine what he could do with 500+ at bats. We needed someone fast at the top of the order whocan hit for average, has speed and cover lots of ground in the outfield.

Plus we get rid of a large chunk of salary. I am also confident that they will get a great closer and if not, Qualls had great stuff. He does walk as many. He doesnt throw as hard, but lok at Trevor Hoffman, he is the all time saves leader and his fastball might hit 87-88mph.

“…one thing very important about this trade is it either signals Drayton’s willingness to let EW made actual decisions, or Drayton’s willingness to make significant moves that might involve getting rid of popular “good guys.”

You guys have a little pieces of the picture hear of coure it” about money look how much lidge would make after a good year closing ther are no to many marano riveras out there lidge still has good stuff this pulhols thing is overated brads problem is his control once he corrects it he can be dominant again Godspeed brad thanks for the moments.

RJ – Speaking of buying closers for cheap, is pursuing Eric Gagne an option? He made $6M last year and after his horrendous showing in August and September last year, maybe he could be signed for substantially less than what Cordero will ask for?

I’m with Amir. We need a closer or if Qualls is up for the job, a new set-up man. Gagne should be extremely undervalued given his poor performance for the Red Sox. Could be a free agent steal. Why not take a flier?

and another thing. the astros save money on lidge, but will have to pay another closer top dollar. and bourn is not exactly a sure thing. and the fact that the phillies had a logjam in their OF with victorino, werth, and burrell (not to mention FA rowand) makes this all the more frustrating that we’re doing them a favor (and now myers moves back to the rotation, so this deal actually saves them money by not overpaying on the free agent market for a mediocre starter). especially when the stros could have probably traded qualls for coco crisp and cash. he’s 28, under contract for 2 more years, above average defensively, has a decent contract, in desperate need of a change of scenery, and has had played great in the past. and recent history has shown giving big contracts to free agent closers is iffy (bj ryan, tom gordon, percival with the tigers, and keith foulke was incredible in 2004, very bad in 05 and 06). the bottom line is if i had to choose between coco crisp and brad lidge and no qualls, or michael bourn, qualls, and the possibility of a high priced free agent closer, i think the decision’s a no-brainer

“You guys have a little pieces of the picture hear of coure it about money look how much lidge would make after a good year closing ther are no to many marano riveras out there lidge still has good stuff this pulhols thing is overated brads problem is his control once he corrects it he can be dominant again Godspeed brad thanks for the moments”

I love this trade!We needed a speedy CF and Lidge needed a change of scenery.I will always admire Brad for answering the tough questions after a bad outing every time with class,and I wish him and Brunt the best.

All of the negative trade talk is silly. Remember you are the same people that wanted to trade Lidge for a bag of peanuts and a beer after his last blown save. Make up your mind, trade to try and better the team or stay with you have but just shut up and give the players a chance to see if they can better the team!

For those who are trying to say that we can’t look at Bourne’s minor league numbers and focus on his “sub par” majors numbers… you may want to see that while he appeared in over 100 games he barely had over 100 at bats. That is no where near a number of at bats necessary to judge a guys abilities in the pros. Give the kid a chance.

I know this may be completely crazy but have the Astro’s ever entertained the idea of experimenting with Luke Scott playing third base? I know it would be rough going at first, but if he’s playing winter ball all year could the at least potential entertain this thought? Has he played anywhere else other than the outfield in his time? I would be a waste to see his talent go to waste. The Astros are so down on Luke I have never understood this? Yet, they lay down the red carpet for Chris Burke. This has always troubled me… What does does Astros brass has so much faith in this guy when he has shown us time and time again that he is not fit for the job. Wiggy was a trade that was made under Purpura’s watch. With Lidge gone sure would be nice to still have Weeler, but the past is the past. I’m very concerned about the weakness of our infield. Burke= .250 hitter who seems to strike out a lot. Wiggy maybe slightly better with some HR’s, then Everett maybe .220 , no power and then Ausmus.. do you think the infield will be upgraded?

Thanks

[I think they're open to doing anything. Carlos Lee, Lance Berkman and Roy Oswalt seem to be the only untouchables. At this point, though, their focus seems to be on acquiring a veteran second baseman.--Richard]

[He wouldn't let us go there. He wasn't rude. It was just a topic he declined to talk much about. I would be willing to bet he saw a sports psychologist, but that was never confirmed.--Richard]

RJ, since I recall you writing elsewhere that Lidge was more than willing (perhaps too willing) to analyze in depth every move he made on the mound, I think the fact that he wouldn’t talk about that particular topic means that it was indeed something that was a lingering problem for him.

[He changed some over the last two years. He kept us a little bit more at arm's lengths, and there were times he felt like he was reading from a script. I became convinced he was seeing a psychologist. I don't want anyone to misconstrue what I'm saying. Brad Lidge was a standup guy. He took the heat after every single bad appearance. He always pointed the finger at himself when he screwed up. He's a first-rate person in every sense of the word.--Richard]

Looks to me if my name was Chris Burke…Luke Scott, Wigginton ect… I would be packing my gear. Too bad, but no trade is going to make EVERYONE happy. Richard are the Astros p***ing up a rope, or do you think they have a shot at Cordero?

Michael Bourn? I’ve got to let that one grow on me. The name is not terribly impressive, but let’s all hope his speed is. As for Brad Lidge, I wish him the best, but I can only imagine what his life and career will be like when he gives up a lead in the ninth inning in a Philly uniform at home. And you thought Houston’s boo-birds were special? Lidge hasn’t seen anything yet.

It’s scary to think the Astros will have nobody who can adequately cover shortstop if Everett isn’t playing. Bruntlett was one of my favorite Astros and his versatility will surely be missed.

At least the Phillies will probably be smart enough to not start the ’08 season with Bruntlett at AAA so that they can have a guy sit in the bullpen and not pitch (Moehler).

People can go on and on about whether the Astros got maximum trade value for Lidge, but there’s no question that trading him was absolutely the right thing to do. If success comes his way (and I hope it does), if he ends up getting the save in game 7 of the WS against the Yankees, I will never, ever believe that it would have happened for him in Houston. If anyone ever needed a change of scenery it’s Brad Lidge. That said, I’ll still miss him.

I gotta say that I loved Buck’s point (paraphrasing): Had the Red Sox taken the same approach with Pedroia as the Astros did with Burke … Pedroia would have never won ROY (Pedroia hit .182 in April).

I know what people will say: “Whatever ‘PAV’ … you think Burke is equivalent to Pedroia?!” SERIOUSLY! WHO FRICKIN KNOWS!?

Is Castillo/Kaz Matsui/Sammy Secondbaseman VERSUS Burke the difference in this team making the playoffs or not? RJ, seriously, if you can answer that yes then … whatever, I’ll still read your stuff, but SERIOUSLY, I know you won’t say that.

I do not think that Burke “deserves” anything … I simply think that he can and will get the job done if he plays 162 games at 2B in ’08. Worst case scenario … he doesn’t … and everyone (including Drayton and Lance) can rest easy a year from now AND I will bet the farm that if Burke STARTS 140+ at 2B next year and stinks that HE will not be the reason that the Stros did not make the playoffs. And if that happens, let him go … and don’t say “Well, it cost the Astros some bargaining power” because no one believes for a second that Wade is serious when he deems the will-be 28 yr-old Burke still the “heir apparent” when he out looking for 32 yr-old replacements. Please. Seriously, does any GM actually buy that?

The Phils are desperate for a third baseman yet they have no interest in keeping Constanzo ( poor fielder, no range, can’t hit breaking pitches).He’ll be a project for the next couple years. They are losing Rowland yet they have seen enough of Bourn to believe he’ll never be a great hitter, even though he has great speed. He also needs a lot work on his defense(he often breaks the wrong way on balls hit to directly to him) Bourn may be develop into a great player but expecting him to be an instant successful lead off batter may be putting too much pressure on him, too quickly.