Look, you're not horrible, and not being as good as the pros does not mean your art career is over. This isn't Japan where you have to save the world before you're 18.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm 21 and 6 months old and I'm not that good either, but I'm not going to give up on going pro just because I'm past the 20 mark. Just keep practicing and you'll get there. I find it a good thing to not go pro at 21 because you can get more life and job experience in before you get in the industry. And don't think you've failed if you have to get a different job for a while, it might teach you something. Explore a bit more.

Also, about those "protegees" on DA, they're doing private, inexpensive commissions which is not the standard, and if you really look at their art, it's not that good. Those artists usually just draw one kind of subject really well and make it look pretty. When a good wolf artist tries to draw a human, you can see they're not that good.

"Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."

I don't want to be overly cruel about that artist, and I know considering my own artwork that I really don't have a leg to stand on, but her gallery really doesn't look pro at all. Have you noticed how about 70% of her gallery is just headshots and picture of very stylised characters with minimal background? It seems like that's all she's capable of. Lots of them also seem to share very similar facial characteristics. I don't think that gallery is a very good example, and I wouldn't hire her for work if I wanted an illustrator for my product.

Yea, there's not a face over 25 in her gallery. They all have the same facial structure, all of them. They almost all have that haunting, distance facial expression and they look like they have no real life in their expressions, even the smiling ones.

Take it from me, you do not want to start comparing yourself to more talented artists regardless of age. You will make yourself miserable, and sometimes it's a good thing to do to get yourself motivated to improve but when it starts to weigh you down like this you really need to contemplate your reasons for being an artist in the first place. In the end you're doing it for yourself because it is what you love doing, correct? And to add to what zx52hg said... Pretty coldly stated, but you do seem to have settled into a comfort zone, perhaps exploring that might be your next step to improving? I know that I am VERY guilty of this myself.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." -- Bruce Lee

But see most people hedge their bets and allow outside things to decide for them. Its the easiest thing in the world is to not follow your dream, to sell short have a bunch of interests and not decide, and just fit in or care what other people think.You either have the courage of your convictions or you don't, and no one cares what you choose.

Originally Posted by Elwell

You know what? Whatever you do, whoever you are, no matter how hard you work, there will always, always, always be people who are younger and better than you. And the older you get, the more of them there are going to be.

These two statements say it all.

I can understand your feelings, but don't let the ultra-juiced up competitiveness people advertise alert you.
Sometimes people, in their urge to motivate others I suppose, make others feel like they have to turn into stock
market junkies, mega corporations out to rule the world and kill every one in their path "Wanna be an artist, draw,
paint, study, thousands aaarrrggg!!!" It can be too much and it can make you compare yourself with others in fields
that don't matter. I mean what's next? You gonna compare biceps or something?

Check me out. I'm 31, I've been drawing since age 3, one of the basic things I ever did AND I STILL SUCK.
I didn't have the info or direction till the age of 26!!! By then yes, everyday life had taken over, but I
found the starting point and never looked back. Do I keep the discipline 100% always? No, and I'm the
one to blame. Do I make steps to improve? You bet. Do I get side tracked? Sure do. But......could I have
quit a million times by now? Especially before I found out what illustration was, what to learn and how
to start? Oh yes!

Want to know what I've sacrificed thus far for this besides money, anguish and time? 1) Personal
relationships with friends and women to whom I meant the world to, but who I put SECOND to my time working
on drawing 2) Not pursuing something else. I could have become a lawyer or a scientist (physics, chemistry or
biology were my favored interests of study) since I was a very good student and I liked this stuff, but I LOVE
art and I RISKED not gaining any education and try to SEARCH for a way...I had to spend years to find, what
you have for free right now! I'm glad I did. 3) Health. In my urge to learn and practice I'd go to atelier-style
study groups, draw a lot from life in limited time to get critiques from teachers who were invited to offer them,
the result? I got panic attacks and anxiety. I've learned to relax now sure but, you get my point.

So, relax and focus. Aim to be the best you can be, because you love it and you want it, take things in small
achievable goals. Try to go through your next 5 GOOD studies, not your next 500.

As for the child prodigies...they've worked hard for their results, but at the same time, I'd hate to
be in their shoes. After a time, they may have nowhere to go, nothing new to explore (or so some may think)
and get bored. Or worse yet, they my still be the same in 20-30 years, and that is 20-30 wasted years. Or they
may be better according to where they want to go. But where will we be (if we are alive)?

Listen to this man here, he said a lot that meant much to me, and will to you too, trust me.

No, he's right: in the end, there can only be one. The problem is, everyone here is both vastly better than me, and much younger. How on this earth will I cut of so many heads of so many unwilling victims with my aging arms? :-)

No, he's right: in the end, there can only be one. The problem is, everyone here is both vastly better than me, and much younger. How on this earth will I cut of so many heads of so many unwilling victims with my aging arms? :-)

Well i'm just another n00b (or fragbait when i play Quake 4 all the time), which means i have n00ne to offer other than to rip off other artist's advice

"Every kid draws, I just never stopped" - Barontieri

james: when did you first start drawing?at what age?
Berry: James, Probably at the same age you did, it’s just that I never stopped. Many people think of “when I started drawing” as something begun in adult or adolescent life but in fact we start drawing as children, toddlers even, and forget that we were somehow stopped from continuing. What we then remember is when we began AGAIN and account it as the age we started drawing. This is important because of a couple things. It causes you to reexamine your education because embedded in there is the thing that stopped you …and it still can. It still can because it was inculcated in your youth prior to any real consciousness of such “education” and so operates as an invisible monkey. The next and really exciting thing is that if you can identify and see past this negative, you’ve reentered the area of your original aspiration, the area free of conditioned inhibitions, and connected up with the fountainhead of child learning and acquisition. A mouthful I know. It sounds like I’m saying “find your inner child” but it’s nothing so simple or sappy as that. There’s a capacity for learning and seeing that children have that gets “straightened” into a sort of mono-brained, linear and very impoverished form of knowledge acquisition; its only virtue is children are easier to control if they can be forced into it. Prior to this they are seeing and learning thousands of things a week instead of, say, ten things a week when placed in first grade (it gets worse the further “up” the ladder you go). Do you remember finger-painting, sponge painting in kindergarten? Do you recall how astonishing that was? What if that had been kept as an ongoing effort? Where would you be now? And I don’t just mean art. I mean across ALL disciplines. There’s nothing to compare with a live mind as opposed to an artificially deadened one. — from RickBerryStudio.com

Oh and while we're on the subject, i can't help but share my weapon of choice

If only my biggest problem would be child prodigies or the fact I'm 35 and I'm nowhere... I can't even get serious, I just did the sacrifice part. Then did not much. I could envy fanartists who can't draw but at least DO it, damnit. But I'm a bit wiser than that. I compare myself to the one I should be, I could be... And I terribly lose to the me who would did her best. It's what tragic, not knowing about younger better artists.

I never understood how someone is able to reach anything at art in mere years, drawing seem so infinitely difficult... *sigh* I probably think too much and draw too little.

{I warn you, there's wondering about my bad experiences with artists from now on, nothing to do with our topic}
It's strange but I met quite a few graphicians in Hungary who were paid kinda well, respected as artists - and couldn't really draw. One worked for a child magazine and she wasn't even willing to draw kids. And when she drew a hat, the editors weren't sure if it's a pie.
But I've met really well paid "artists" who did NOTHING except getting money and had a horrible personality and no idea about teamwork or working for the web.
I always wondered why artists(?) with so tiny skills get well paid (and as I saw, very easy and quick) work, freedom and respect here. I've seen 14 year olds on Tegaki E who did much more skilled and creative work as fun... And there are double standards. They may ignore deadlines for weeks, it's the programmer's fault if the site won't be ready.
Is web different? Is Hungary different? Was I at the wrong place? I always read from a very different and more logical wold here on CA.

Oh and while we're on the subject, i can't help but share my weapon of choice

Heh, cool. I own one of those, my one is the standard police issue
Nepalese Kukri knife. My father in law gave it to me when he went to
Nepal (...after being captured in Sudan) he's a decorated SA Cop,
he traded it for some of our local police gear.

It's a helluva dangerous weapon. Much more devastating than it looks.
The blade is specially weighted down to deliver a chopping force that
magnifies the strength of the blow. They are actually meant for severing
heads and hands.

Heh, cool. I own one of those, my one is the standard police issue
Tibetan Kukri knife. My father in law gave it to me when he went to
Tibet (...after being captured in Sudan) he's a decorated SA Cop,
he traded it for some of our local police gear.

It's a helluva dangerous weapon. Much more devastating than it looks.
The blade is specially weighted down to deliver a chopping force that
magnifies the strength of the blow. They are actually meant for severing
heads and hands.

Yeah, my dad in law is awesome.

Ah yes, the Kukri... An elegant weapon for slaying competing talent.
Just to get an idea of what this thing is capable of, this guy... (NSFW) And he got lucky.

I always wondered why artists(?) with so tiny skills get well paid (and as I saw, very easy and quick) work, freedom and respect here. I've seen 14 year olds on Tegaki E who did much more skilled and creative work as fun... And there are double standards. They may ignore deadlines for weeks, it's the programmer's fault if the site won't be ready.
Is web different? Is Hungary different? Was I at the wrong place? I always read from a very different and more logical wold here on CA.

Of course there are always differences between countries and industries, but what I picked up while doing my internship, and looking at fellow students who are doing better or worse in the industry, it's mostly about selling yourself and having a network and people that are able to recommend you. As an artist, you could be as talented and prolific as Picasso, van Gogh and Michelangelo combined, but if you keep it all in your atelier and speak to no one about it, no one will ever know what they're missing out on.

It takes that, and a little bit of luck too. Meet the right person at the right time and that could mean a lot for your career.

Originally Posted by dpaint

I was very clear in what I said and I stand by it. Holding up 15 year olds as prodigies is just ignorant and shows such a lack of art knowledge in general its laughable. So they are prodigies? Compared to what? Back it up with some facts and some proof you know what you are talking about and have an understanding of the art world in general.

You misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about 15 year old prodigies at all, I never mentioned them in my reply. I took your remark as an example of the general attitude that I see on these forums towards DA, and I personally think that this is a black and white type of thinking that to me also signifies ignorance. I agree that there is less of a serious "I have to become the best artist I can be" attitude there, but saying that everything and everyone on DA is worthless is pushing it a bit far for me, and honestly doesn't add to this society's attractiveness. As an example, there's a school here in the Netherlands that is known for it's messy organization and floaty, artsy-fartsy, just-express-your-feelings attitude and lessons. I've attended the school for a year and I can say that I hate the way they work, the way most pupils and teachers talk about art and the way the school educates its pupils, but I'm not going to deny that there are some talented and hard-working people in their midst.

There’s a capacity for learning and seeing that children have that gets “straightened” into a sort of mono-brained, linear and very impoverished form of knowledge acquisition

This is EXACTLY the reason why my parents decided to homeschool us... And I don't regret a minute of homeschooling. It was basically like being a little kid, extended and expanded... What you learn is how to learn, and that's a skill you can apply to EVERYTHING.

I was kind of shocked when I went to college and found most of the normally-schooled kids had so much trouble actively learning... So many of them wanted to be told what to do and seemed lost when they had to work things out on their own (especially in freshman year...)

You misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about 15 year old prodigies at all, I never mentioned them in my reply. I took your remark as an example of the general attitude that I see on these forums towards DA, and I personally think that this is a black and white type of thinking that to me also signifies ignorance. I agree that there is less of a serious "I have to become the best artist I can be" attitude there, but saying that everything and everyone on DA is worthless is pushing it a bit far for me, and honestly doesn't add to this society's attractiveness.

That's not what anyone has been saying, and you're still missing the point completely...

The point isn't about DA specifically. DA and people's attitude toward popular artists on DA is merely being used as an example. The point is that some people seem to be overly impressed by art that is simply not as good as they think it is... And that shows a level of ignorance about art.

This is part of the learning process, though. Taste and judgment in art is one of the things you develop over time, your perception matures with your skills. You might think that Popular Whiz-Kid's art is awesome now, but after you've developed your own perception more, you'll start seeing all the flaws.

It occurs to me now that there is a sort of geriatric analog to child prodigies, namely late bloomers who take up a thing in relative old age and then make a big splash in it. Perhaps all the younger artists should be desperately envious of them. I'll let you all know as soon as my work reaches the kind of standard to make anyone here envious. :-)

This is EXACTLY the reason why my parents decided to homeschool us... And I don't regret a minute of homeschooling. It was basically like being a little kid, extended and expanded... What you learn is how to learn, and that's a skill you can apply to EVERYTHING.

I was kind of shocked when I went to college and found most of the normally-schooled kids had so much trouble actively learning... So many of them wanted to be told what to do and seemed lost when they had to work things out on their own (especially in freshman year...)

That's not what anyone has been saying, and you're still missing the point completely...

The point isn't about DA specifically. DA and people's attitude toward popular artists on DA is merely being used as an example. The point is that some people seem to be overly impressed by art that is simply not as good as they think it is... And that shows a level of ignorance about art.

This is part of the learning process, though. Taste and judgment in art is one of the things you develop over time, your perception matures with your skills. You might think that Popular Whiz-Kid's art is awesome now, but after you've developed your own perception more, you'll start seeing all the flaws.

Well let me put it like this, assuming that the whole front page is filled with ponies, only talking about the 10-dollar-commission "pros" and leaving the impression (to me at least) that those are the only popular artists on DA, combined with what I remember having read on this forum makes me think that the general consensus here is to avoid DA like the plague.

That said, and reading back the comments with your explanation in mind I can put it into a context, so thanks for taking the time for that.

And on an unrelated note, I can't help wonder about social development while being homeschooled, since most (if not all) of my friends went to school with me. Did you make friends through hobbies and meeting kids in the neighbourhood?