I don't see this generating new flying b/w YUL and Toronto, so where's the cannibalism going to be felt most? Also, factor in that WS is increasing its flying in the triangle as well. Let the slaughter and further drop in margins commence...

Some YYZ traffic from AC customers who live dt or on the subways will likely migrate. I would watch for traffic adjustment out of YYZ, downsizing or the reduction of half hour service in the rush periods etc. Some Porter customers who are Aeroplan members, and who like the dt convenience will go back to AC. Those who love Porter and not AC will stay with Porter for sure.

If I were running AC, I would offer ML lounge access to those (except for the cheapest tango fares) flying into YTZ from other airports. If AC can build its own lounge in YTZ, AC can then boast lounge access at both ends, which PD cannot hope to match without going broke.

I sue remember those days doing once a week (YTZ-YOW-YTZ) when I used to live in Toronto.

Personally, I would fly AC in a heart beat! Not for the miles per say, but the qualifying segments.

Good Luck AC!!

Porter must be looking for a exit strategy right now - maybe WestJet should pick them up and call then WestJet Express. That's the only way they can survive with WJ's recent boost to its Eastern Triangle service.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 9): That's the only way they can survive with WJ's recent boost to its Eastern Triangle service.

I think that's a bit overstated. While it's true that Porter's 'free ride' is about to get more costly, they've shown solid growth and it's not as though their schedule is going to be completely duplicated by AC here. I would presume their own loyalty program will help retain many of those who've been using them over the last few years. It's also not clear that AC will be able to run with much lower costs than PD at YTZ, especially given the necessity of essentially renting space from PD. I guess the real question is to what extent they're willing to not make money at YTZ, if in return they get to undercut PD's own yields. On the other hand, if they use this operation as a 'loss-leader', I'm under the impression they could face legal challenges for doing so.

All in all, I think PD should be able to weather this, although it may hurt their recent growth in load factor.

My question is, will there be any reduction of AC capacity at all on YYZ-YUL, to account for the addition of the YTZ-YUL flights.

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 5): I would watch for traffic adjustment out of YYZ, downsizing or the reduction of half hour service in the rush periods etc.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 11):My question is, will there be any reduction of AC capacity at all on YYZ-YUL, to account for the addition of the YTZ-YUL flights

While it's likely the Pearson Rapidair flights might see some downguages, it will be interesting to see where that extra capacity ends up (ie: new routes, or added capicity to other current city pairs). Might make for an interesting domino effect.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 11):I think that's a bit overstated. While it's true that Porter's 'free ride' is about to get more costly, they've shown solid growth and it's not as though their schedule is going to be completely duplicated by AC here. I would presume their own loyalty program will help retain many of those who've been using them over the last few years. It's also not clear that AC will be able to run with much lower costs than PD at YTZ, especially given the necessity of essentially renting space from PD. I guess the real question is to what extent they're willing to not make money at YTZ, if in return they get to undercut PD's own yields. On the other hand, if they use this operation as a 'loss-leader', I'm under the impression they could face legal challenges for doing so.

All in all, I think PD should be able to weather this, although it may hurt their recent growth in load factor.

My question is, will there be any reduction of AC capacity at all on YYZ-YUL, to account for the addition of the YTZ-YUL flights.

JL

PD sold their product primarily based on convenience. But when AC can offer the same convenience, why would anyone choose specifically PD. That's my point.

City Centre Terminal Corp (CCTC) will be making adjustments to the terminal facilities to accommodate the arrival of other airlines. Terminal signage will be changing, and check-in kiosks for other airlines will be installed. The Porter shuttle I believe will become a Toronto-City Airport shuttle instead (serving other carriers passengers as well as Porter's).

Sky Regional will be leasing terminal space from CCTC, and fuel will almost certainly have to be purchased from Porter FBO (who I believe manage the fuel at the airport). Sky Regional will have their own flight crews and customer service staff, but I'm under the impression they will be using existing personnel at YTZ for all other aspects of ground handling...

15x daily departures I believe is the fullest extent of Air Canada's slot allocations at YTZ... so for now, YUL is the only destination.

Any confirmation on the configuration for Sky Regional's Q400s? Rumours over the months have ranged between 64 pax to 78 pax... can't see anything more than 70, though...

I hope PD with start connecting flights from YXU to YTZ. This will steal some business from JAZZ that connects YXU to YYZ. I would definitely consider flying Porter from YXU if it started service here.

As much as I like to see competition in the Canadian market, I feel Air Canada is doing this strictly to pressure Porter...but I have a feeling AC will not make money and will suffer financially from this decision.

I am glad AC is starting service to the island. That airport is still, even with PD, underused and is a great asset to the city. The downtown business people and residents are going to flock to this service, especially if they are Star Alliance or AC Status and usually go to YYZ for YUL service. I think this competition will show if PD is truly competitive or if they were living a dream with their own little airport. The CO flights might cause serious problems for PD on YTZ-EWR, especially because CO can carry connecting paxs into their US network, while PD can realistically only work o&d traffic between those cities.

My friend will be attending McGill next year, and I will certainly be heading to YTZ to fly to YUL instead of YYZ, just to try this service out. I may even do AC one way PD the return just for some comparisons.

One thought; Even though this thread is about the AC cpommencement of service, I feel I need to make this point on the sustainability of PD. PD entered an empty airport and started service with a premium product (snackbox, real glass and cutlery) and have been increasing their LF with no competition. AC is now entering on what is one of their two key routes (the other being YOW) and will be offering similar service but with the advantage of Aeroplan members, and a feed in YUL. I think PD is going to have to lower fares to match AC, which will result in a reduction of the premium amenities of PD. If this happens, I think that will spell the end of PD.

Why, I don't think the o&d on that route is very high at all. From what I gather, a nice chunk of the business on that route is paxs connecting into AC's YYZ network, something PD can certainly not match. For example, a friend of mine the attends Western (university in London) knows someone that flies the YXU-YYZ service because he needs to connect onto the YYZ-NRT service.

YYZRWY23

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