I'm a newbie and looking for expertise and wisdom. I just bought a new 2017 Dodge Big Horn and a then a used 2012 Shockwave Fifthwheel Toyhauler. The Fifthwheel hitch came with the deal, but I had to by the rails for the OEM fifth wheel/gooseneck package built into the bed of my shortbed. I had originally intended to look at putting a gooseneck adapter on the fifth wheel, but since the hitch came with the unit I was hoping to save some expense. I already had to put out $640 for the rails that work with the OEM package.

Picked the unit and hitch and once on the truck realized the toy hauler is way high in the front and way low in the back. And thats without having my HD bikes in there. So from an expense and hastle point of view, does anyone have any input that could help?

Both the hitch and the pin box on the 5th wheel are adjustable to help lower the front of the 5th wheel but you want to maintain at least 6" clearance above the bed rails. Others with more knowledge will be along with more (better) advice soon.

First you should have about 6" of clearance between the rear of the bed and the bottom the trailer as stated. More than that you can either raise the Pin box or drop the 5th wheel hitch. That being said it is more likely that the truck bed is higher than an older model and the trailer is too low. If that is the case the trailer will look as if it going uphill when on level ground. If that is the case look to see if the axle is above the springs or below. If they are above the springs the axle can be positioned below the springs and raising the trailer 2 3/4 inches. Also look to see how the springs are bolted to the frame. Some have a several holes that can be used to raise or lower the spring height. A note of caution, if you don't know how to do this hire a pro..

Here are a couple pics of the box and the hitch in bed. I box appears to be up as far as possible, and the hitch does appear to be adjustable? There are no shackle adjustments, but the axes are on top of the springs. Don't think that will give me enough though. Need more than 2 3/4 inches I'm guessing.

Picked the unit and hitch and once on the truck realized the toy hauler is way high in the front and way low in the back. And thats without having my HD bikes in there. So from an expense and hastle point of view, does anyone have any input that could help?

You need to measure the clearance in order to come up with a plan. I would go as low as 5" but NO less. 6" is preferred as said.

First, welcome to the Forum! Thanks for coming and asking the best way to do it RIGHT! We will try to help.

As a general warning, DO NOT use a FW to Gooseneck adapter that looks like a post with proper adapters. It places way too much torque on the pin, and can do serious damage to the frame. I know this was not in your plan, but general warning.

As Rene said, please hook up and measure FW to bed rail clearance.It does appear the pin box is adjusted to it's highest setting.

The best way to see how much "lift" you need is to pull the FW on to a couple of 2X8 or 2X10 and check level. Add more 2X until it is level, or close. Measure the height of your "wood pile" and you know how much lift you need.

If you need 5 inches of lift, for example, you could flip the axles AND add a 2 inch block between the axles, now below the springs, and the springs. Use longer U bolts. 2" block + 2 ¾" from flip = 4 ¾".

While you are playing down there, check the spring shackle bolts. They often come with plastic shim / bushings, which wear out quickly. Switch to wet bolts (grease able) and save many future headaches.

I have attached pictures of the truck and trailer. At the middle rear of the tail gate it is 7.5 inches, and at the side of the bed is 10.5 inches at the from the bottom edge of the unit. But as you can see there is one heck of a issue. The stands are down, but not touching the ground. So full weight is on the truck.

I can flip the axes, but don't think that will be enough. So what about converting to a gooseneck? And what other issues does that create? Like turning issues with hitting the truck maybe?

Thank you, I never thought of using 2x's. Initially, I did not want to lift it creating an increase in the ramp angle because we will be loading in with touring Harley's, besides having had many gooseneck equipment trailers tend to be more comfortable with them. As not having the deal with the big cumbersome hitch in my bed was a negative. But doing as you suggest would also allow me to test the ramp out. I am capable of flipping the axes as I used to work in brake/suspension shop and completely understand what you are suggesting. And probable the most cost effective solution.

Question, does having the unit higher create side to side stability issues in a higher speed cornering situation like freeways in mountainous areas. We have a few of them out here in the southwest.

You said earlier that the hitch has room for adjustment. Lower it as far as you can and see how you end up. Looking at the picture, it's hard for me to see any adjustment. Do you have a friend with a fifth wheel hitch? If you do, can you try it on your bed?

But as you can see there is one heck of a issue. The stands are down, but not touching the ground. So full weight is on the truck.

Hmmmm... You should have a heavy (usually electric) lowering mechanism for lifting the trailer in addition to the light extensions shown as fully extended in the picture of the front end of the trailer. This should be more than adequate for disconnecting the truck.

Stu, I think you misunderstood. The OP took the weight off the front legs to show us how much clearance they have between the bottom side of the RV and the truck bed/side rails. He has nom problem disconnecting or reconnecting.

I have attached pictures of the truck and trailer. At the middle rear of the tail gate it is 7.5 inches, and at the side of the bed is 10.5 inches at the from the bottom edge of the unit. But as you can see there is one heck of a issue. The stands are down, but not touching the ground. So full weight is on the truck.

I can flip the axes, but don't think that will be enough. So what about converting to a gooseneck? And what other issues does that create? Like turning issues with hitting the truck maybe?

Your thoughts ... ?

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I know you believe you understand what you think I said,But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant

The OP has way more clearance than the minimum needed over the bed. If the hitch is adjustable, try lowering the hitch. You should also have adjustment on the pin box. You may be able to level the fiver with these two adjustments. If the minimum clearance is reached at any spot, most likely the tailgate in your case, and the fiver is still out of level, do not take the adjustments on the hitch/pinbox any farther. You will have to work on getting the back end of the trailer up by changing up your suspension.

The first two replies here are telling you the same thing.

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I know you believe you understand what you think I said,But I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant

The photos are not helpful because the FW is resting on the front legs. We need a photo with the weight placed on the truck.

The OP said "The stands are down, but not touching the ground". So the weight is on the truck. I'm not familiar with that brand hitch. Can't see if there is any adjustment to lower it. It does look like the pin box cannot be adjusted to gain anymore. It's just about touching the bottom side of the RV.

Rene, maybe I miss typed, but no up/down adjustment on the hitch. The box is as far up as possible. Sorry I did not address your comment as I missed it.

Joezeppy, thank you and I will wait to see what others say. My only option in the bed is to go to a custom gooseneck I think. I really didn't want to flip the axels, but that might be the way to go. I going to get some 2x's as suggested by Grashley and so that I can really see what kind of clearance I have in the bed if I went to the gooseneck. If not enough, then its the axel flip and maybe larger tires I guess.

Can't play with it today, but will be on it this weekend! Then will get back with what I come up with.

Just to reinforce an earlier comment -You should NOT use a GOOSENECK hitch on a fifth Wheel - you risk breaking the welds in the fiver neck. Many, if not all, fiver manufacturer's void their warranty if you do use one!

Did you also miss the part where I said to try another hitch. Another brand may be quite a bit lower. It doesn't have to be perfectly level but real close. Or maybe just go to a dealer and take some height measurements and compare them to yours.

Looking at your second picture I see that the hitch is higher than the truck side rails. On mine, the top of the hitch is below the bed rail I'm guessing a couple of inches. Yours is real high.. That's much of your problem. A different hitch would be much better.

You have two basic adjustment points to get the FW to tow level. These are the two points that support the FW - Pin box and wheels.

You can lower the hitch height using a different hitch that is lower or adjustable. To obtain this height, the type of hitch does not matter, the height matters. HOWEVER, do NOT use a pipe style gooseneck hitch. The leverage applied to the FW is far above design standards.

Take a look at the Andersen Ultimate hitch. It uses the gooseneck ball to attach to the truck, but in a manner that properly supports the FW pin box. It is height adjustable. It can be removed completely in 5 minutes and the aluminum version only weighs 37#. Set this up to keep the FW 6 inches above the bed rails, measured at the hitch.

Use the 2X8 method to determine how much lift at the axles is still needed.

Axle flip will give you about 5 1/2 or 6 inches of lift. As mentioned the easy way is to just pull the rig up on scrap lumber to get it level. From there the rail clearance is set then the FW height is adjusted. Correct track kits will give you 2" of lift. Some rigs have lower shackle holes that might give an inch and some tire sizes may help. Some even end up cutting everything off and installing a sub frame. When all this is done your stabilizers may not reach or may be maxed out and you can buy longer stabilizers. The first step may also be too high so a new step may be needed or some will build a step box.

Visualize moving the axle from on top of the spring to below the spring. Measure your axle diameter plus the perch that is welded to it plus the thickness of the spring pack PLUS the thickness of the perch again you will come up with the amount of lift. As you will see, the axle doesn't flip over it just moves from on top to underneath and will have a new perch weld opposite the existing perch. While you are doing all of this or just for any suspension system I would highly recommend a wet bolt kit. The side plates are twice as thick as oem and give a very heavy duty set up. The Dexter ez flex equalizer is also another nice option.

I cant tell from your pic but some superglide hitches have two options of feet sizes. The feet are the bracket between the black upper tube and the bottom silver tube. If yours are tall you may be able to drop it an inch or so with a short foot.

Ernie, thank you, I did miss that comment. A buddy of mine in Alabama just bought a new toy hauler and had a gooseneck welded on to the box. He also has the same truck with the OEM package in the bed. It has four points for a FW rail kit and the center point that holds the gooseneck ball. He loves it, but maybe he doesn't know about what you all shared. I will call him about it, I thought he said the dealer that sold it to him did it.

Rene, the hitch came with the purchase deal and was told it is a better one because of the way it slides. It has a Y pattern that helps in tight situations instead of having to pull pins. When it was in the guys Dodge it was below the bed, but he had a much lower (bolt in) rail kit. It's the rails that connect to the RAM OEM package that are raising it so much, so maybe I can talk the hitch place into taking them back (probably not) and then look at another rail kit that works with this OEM package?

Grashley, I looked at the Anderson Ultimate hitch, but I already have the receiver for the gooseneck ball in the OEM package. I took the hitch and rails out and took a picture of the OEM bed package to you can see what I am talking about. The pins from the FW rail kit are still installed in the bed, but you will see the plastic cover in the center. That's where the GN ball slides in and what my buddy uses with the GN extension that they welded on to the FW box. So all of you agree this is NOT the way to go?

QZ, I agree with the 5 1/2" to 6" from looking at it. There are no additional holes in the shackles to adjust with. I am still not feeling comfortable with raising the unit because of stability issues. I liked that the unit sat lower. Plus it just looks better in my opinion. But even with lowering the front to the 6" above the bed I still think it is not going to be enough to get level. Now that raises the question, do I go with axle flip first before sinking more money into the hitch setup? Also, if flipping the axels to below the springs brings it level, does having the FW hitch slightly above the bed height as it is create any other concerns? I don't see what those would be, but maybe some of you do?

I have a Harley Club meeting today, but I will get on the 2x test tomorrow and let you know what I come up with. You folks are awesome for putting up with my dense newbie-ness.

This: "my dense newbie-ness" is not true at all. This stuff can be confusing and overwhelming when you haven't done it before. When you are done you will think it was no big deal. Well, it may be somewhat of a big deal depending on which way you have to go. It doesn't matter which hitch you use the bed rail clearance is the bed rail clearance. You have a good sliding hitch which you may want to keep so the FW doesn't hit the cab. My FW for example is an old style flat front, 102" wide on a short bed truck. I have a different model of superglide but it keeps from hitting no matter what crazy place I get myself into. The worst I can say about superglide is that when it is right at the transition point of the roller moving into the left or right track I will feel it.

When looking at the first pic of your FW it does seem to be somewhat swept under at the bottom front so maybe it's not too bad as far as hitting the cab. Your hitch is probably sliding 14 inches or so. Is that necessary? You dont know until you try turning it far. It's normal to use a slider with a short bed if the FW doesnt have a good sweep/rounded corers. Move it around and see how close it comes to the cab and then decide if you want to change hitches. Everyone has their own preference but why change a high dollar hitch if it isn't going to do anything different than what you have. Again, the rail clearance is the rail clearance. I have even used my superslide as a non sliding hitch to pull another FW for someone. I fabricated brackets to make the hitch stationary and didn't use a capture plate.

I'm just guessing that you are faced with an axle flip. A couple pic angles dont seem terrible but the first pic does. At that point you will hurt your ramp angle when dealing with your cycles. I would think that you could use the landing gear to tilt the FW back and lessen the angle when loading and unloading. Even if the FW is still hitched up you may be able to raise it enough to load yet not start lifting the back of the truck. You could simulate that when the FW is on 2x and get an idea of what is going on. You wouldnt be tilted a long time but t's all about being level for your propane frig and some are more or less concerned with that. When I was running a propane frig I was always concerned with it but you could always shut it off if you like.

Your truck bed pic wouldn't open at first. I see it now. The four pins are in the puck system. The center pin is for a goose neck and I've never dealt with that. My truck didn't have the oem pucks, I installed them and purchased the picture frame along with superglide. There are four handles that are hard to see that swing 90 degrees to disengage the pins from the keyhole pucks.

That looks like a standard factory install. To use the Andersen, simply remove the pucks, install the ball, then the Andersen attaches to the ball.

With the hitch you have and the Andersen, and other FW hitches, the movement of the FW with respect to the truck (lean side to side, front to back moves, etc) all happen at the pin box. With the gooseneck adapter, this movement occurs 2 feet lower at the gooseneck ball. If you hit the brakes, with a FW hitch, this force is absorbed right at the pin. With a gooseneck, there is a 2 foot cheater bar attached to the gooseneck ball and applying torque to the frame as part of this action. Gooseneck trailers are built to handle this torque. Most have triangle supports welded to the trailer and hitch. FW are generally not built to handle this stress, and adaptors do not have the same support for the FW. Most manufacturers will void the frame warranty if a gooseneck adaptor is used.

I just went out I'm the garage and measured...the top of the ball on the Andersen in its lowest setting is at 16-1/2". This would put the 5th wheel plate at about 17-1/2". Just wanted to post this for comparison in case you consider the Andersen.

OK, so it is verified by the hitch place that I am 7 inches from level. So they are going to do the axel flip that they are saying will give me 5-6 inches. After that we will see where I am at. I can get the rest with either changing the fifth wheel hitch brackets (1 3/4 inches lower at the hitch according to Pullrite) or go to bigger tires and/or wheels. Changing the rails are not an option unless I want to eat $200 restocking fee, and then go buy other rails that will only give me about 3/4" lower. They said it has enough bed clearance to change the fifth wheel hitch brackets, and brackets are $94 all in on Jet.com

Since I traded trucks I have encounter the similar problem. The newer truck is approximately 2 1/2" taller than the old one. 1 1/2" at the axle center point and the bed sides are 1" taller. Already raise the B&W 5th wheel hitch (I give very low points on this hitch) an inch and dropped the pin box on the trailer to get 5 to 6 inches of clearance. So now the 5'r is running up hill with about 3 1/2 to 4" difference front to back.

I have a Lippert frame and Lippert axles located below the springs. Lipper has a "bolt on"(tongue in cheek because, possibly, some drilling may be needed) kit called "Correct Track" which will raise the rig about 2". Cost for tandem axle is around $375.00. It is suggest that new bushings be installed at this time so add $75.00 more. Because of where my springs are fastened in the hangers I should be able to lift my 5'r about 2 3/4" to 3 " I have yet to find a source for spacer blocks for between the springs and axle w/ the u-bolt kit.

Also look at and ball parked price 16" rims and 235/85R16 which would raise the rig about 1 1/2" over the current 235/85R15. Approximately $250.00 a tire and wheel. Even if I could sell the old tire & wheels for $100 each these meats would look stupid and out of place being that they would be only 2" apart at mid axle. On top of that, if I wanted new bolts/bushings for the suspension that would run a $150.00 or so.

I'm still have to check a couple of things out with Lippert but I am pretty sure I'm going with their kit. I'll keep you informed, and if I remember "how to" some pictures also.