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Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Jack Hays

That is correct, and demonstrates your claim was wrong.

Yes, it was. Responded to your post from tapatalk. Fair cop. However, Samaras has had an entire career intimately linked with Nea Demokratia, one of the two principal culprits of the Greek/Goldman Sachs/ECB fraud designed to allow the creation of the Eurozone. His handling of the poisoned chalice he picked up in 2012 was incompetent. While there were minor statistical improvements for a couple of quarters during his tenancy, that period showed worsening standards of living, the toleration of rampant far-right street violence, unpaid public service salaries, bungled privatisations and a decline of public confidence, and yet you still present him as some kind of misunderstood genius.

Get real. Your adoration of him smacks of pointless partisanship. "He's right-wing; he must be okay."

"The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

"Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

Yes, it was. Responded to your post from tapatalk. Fair cop. However, Samaras has had an entire career intimately linked with Nea Demokratia, one of the two principal culprits of the Greek/Goldman Sachs/ECB fraud designed to allow the creation of the Eurozone. His handling of the poisoned chalice he picked up in 2012 was incompetent. While there were minor statistical improvements for a couple of quarters during his tenancy, that period showed worsening standards of living, the toleration of rampant far-right street violence, unpaid public service salaries, bungled privatisations and a decline of public confidence, and yet you still present him as some kind of misunderstood genius.

Get real. Your adoration of him smacks of pointless partisanship. "He's right-wing; he must be okay."

Wrong again. Samaras left ND in 1992 and did not rejoin the party until 2004. He had no role in creation of the Eurozone or Greece's entry into it. As PM he represented (and could still represent again) Greece's best hope.

"It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Manc Skipper

" ‘This is our political alternative to neoliberalism and to the neoliberal process of European integration: democracy, more democracy and even deeper democracy,” said Alexis Tsipras on 18 January 2014 in a debate organised by the Dutch Socialist party in Amersfoort. Now the moment of deepest democracy looms, as the Greek people go to the polls on Sunday to vote for or against the next round of austerity.

Unfortunately, Sunday’s choice will be between endless austerity and immediate chaos. As comfortable as it is to argue from the sidelines that maybe Grexit in the medium term won’t hurt as much as 30 years’ drag on GDP from swingeing repayments, no sane person wants either. The vision that Syriza swept to power on was that if you spoke truth to the troika plainly and in broad daylight, they would have to acknowledge that austerity was suffocating Greece.
They have acknowledged no such thing. Whatever else one could say about the handling of the crisis, and whatever becomes of the euro, Sunday will be the moment that unstoppable democracy meets immovable supra-democracy. The Eurogroup has already won: the Greek people can vote any way they like – but what they want, they cannot have..."

See Manc, I don't believe they have won. I think they have shot themselves in the foot big time. They have engineered Grexit because they don't wish to be seen to negotiate in good faith with socialists. The Asian markets, which don't much care whether you call yourself left, right or Martian, are voting with their exchange rates and the Euro is heading for Dollar parity pretty sharpish-like.

"The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

"Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Jack Hays

Wrong again. Samaras left ND in 1992 and did not rejoin the party until 2004. He had no role in creation of the Eurozone or Greece's entry into it. As PM he represented (and could still represent again) Greece's best hope.

Oh, the confidence of wiki-surfers!

The only people that drew confidence from his premiership were the goose-steppers of Golden Dawn...and the IMF.

"The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

"Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

See Manc, I don't believe they have won. I think they have shot themselves in the foot big time. They have engineered Grexit because they don't wish to be seen to negotiate in good faith with socialists. The Asian markets, which don't much care whether you call yourself left, right or Martian, are voting with their exchange rates and the Euro is heading for Dollar parity pretty sharpish-like.

The President of France is himself a socialist.

"It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Jack Hays

I lived in Athens 2003-2006 and still have many friends there. Samaras is widely admired and respected.

By about 20% of the population, yes.

Listen, let's wait and see what next Sunday's referendum shows. If the Greeks vote 'yes', then your man is probably the only figure that can aspire to the premiership. There will be new elections, so he'll get his chance. What will make things really complicated is if the Greeks vote 'yes' on Sunday and then vote Syriza back into power a month or so later. That would be cruel on everyone.

"The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

"Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

By about 20% of the population, yes.

Listen, let's wait and see what next Sunday's referendum shows. If the Greeks vote 'yes', then your man is probably the only figure that can aspire to the premiership. There will be new elections, so he'll get his chance. What will make things really complicated is if the Greeks vote 'yes' on Sunday and then vote Syriza back into power a month or so later. That would be cruel on everyone.

Fair enough.

"It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Jack Hays

The crisis was created by Tsipras.

Sure it was!

I guess Samaras, Papandreou, Papademos, Karamanlis and Mitsotakis had nothing to do with the Grecian fraud. Still less Goldman Sachs, Draghi, Trichet, Duisenberg, Marín, Santer, Delors. No, no one who was involved in the Greek fraud bears any responsibility, only Tsipras and Varoufakis.

"The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

"Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

Originally Posted by Andalublue

A fact known to every member of the Troika throughout, and a fraud perpetrated by the people the Troika are now lining up to attempt a bloodless coup. Syriza didn't even exist when this fraud was perpetrated.

The Troika knew Greece entered into the Union under false pretenses ?

Can you prove that or are you just making it up ?

Once they were a member nation they and their bonds were given the same status as other EU member nations and that meant they could borrow for almost nothing.

They were distributing worthless debt that had the same rating as German bonds.

And how is holding Greece accountable for its excessive spending and corruption a " bloodless coup " again ?

And Syrzia IS responsible for this growing into a unmanageable situation. He's responsible for his rhetoric, for making promises he couldnt keep and for perpetuating the narrative that " austerity " and not unsustainable deficit spending and corruption is the cause of their problems.

Tsipras promised MORE spending, he promised to hire back thousands of Public Sector workers.

I'm just curious of where he thought the money was going to come from to accomplish this ? I doubt he gave that very important detail a second thought.

They elected a left wing radical activists, not a leader and now they're paying for it.