Amazon Removing Gun Products From Store. Worse Than EBay.

Amazon has begun automatically notifying some Amazon vendors that if they do not remove certain gun-related products from their Amazon listings they will be banned from selling on Amazon.com. Below is the text of an email sent to a gun accessories maker. I have replaced the list of products sold by the manufacturer with an X to protect their identity. The list includes common accessories that are allowed on even EBay.com, accessories that are non-essential parts and accessories that are (to the best of my knowledge) not restricted or banned anywhere in the USA.

This product has been identifed as a X. X are prohibited from sale on Amazon.

For more information on our policies, search on “Restricted Products” and “Listing Restrictions” in seller Help.

**Action Required: Within 48 hours of this notice, please review your remaining listings and make any changes necessary to ensure compliance with our policies.

Failure to comply with this request may result in the removal of your selling privileges.

We appreciate your cooperation and thank you for selling on Amazon.com.

To add insult to injury, Amazon had sales staff at SHOT Show looking for new vendors. The same manufacturer whose products are now banned met with two Amazon Vendor Managers at SHOT Show last month. Want proof? Below are their business cards (I have blacked out their names, again to protect the manufacturer) …

As a gun owner I am outraged, as someone who spends a not-insignificant portion of my income at Amazon.com I know I am going to be inconvenienced by this and as an Amazon shareholder I am concerned that this is going to become a slippery slope where more and more products become blacklisted.

UPDATE: Amazon list banned weapon-related items on this page. Included in the list is “Parts or accessories related to assault weapons”. In other words anything related to a rifle (since there is no practical distinction between a so-called “assault rifle” and any other rifle). I can confirm they are banning parts that attach to, and are useful on, bolt-action rifles as well as semi-automatic rifles.

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.

Advertisement

Steve (TFB Editor)

Amazon likes to defend 1A rights, does not seem very keen on the 2A

OhioTry

Until you explain just what Amazon is banning, this article is useless.

Steve (TFB Editor)

I cannot without identifying the vendor. As someone above posted, they have stated they are banning “Parts or accessories related to assault weapons”. So pretty much anything related to a rifle (or any type) is banned.

You can’t even mention what type of product it is without mentioning brand? Is it rails, a compensator, etc? You can still get optics, slide fire stocks, quad rails, muzzle breaks, folding stocks, etc… Many of which are directly fulfilled by Amazon.

Uncontested

They banned many of Magpuls item, which were shortly re-listed with slightly different names from 3rd party sellers but are no longer offered by Amazon. How do I know? I was looking at my wish list where at one point I had added an ACS stock and its completely de-listed now. Its ironic because I purchased an ACS stock but it was the wrong one, needed nonmil spec and i returned it, directly from amazon.

GonzoI

As much as I’m in favor of the 2nd Amendment, Amazon defends it’s own 1A rights, not ours. They have policies governing what literature can be sold on their site, so it isn’t different treatment for 1A vs 2A rights. And it is understandable that, by acting as the middleman in a sale, they take on liability that they may no longer want to take on.

Without knowing what exactly they’re banning, it’s hard to tell if they’re taking an anti-gun stance, or just reducing risk. Even if it were an anti-rights stance, it isn’t the same level of attack as Google removing gun purchase related search results was.

Axel

Should intolerance be profitable? You decide. I hope you are able to sell your Amazon stock and quit buying from Amazon. For me it’s an easy promise to make, I’ve never bought anything from Amazon. Now I know not to ever do it.

Raptor

I’m trying to understand what they’re banning. I just ordered two different forward grips for my AR there, as well as a Troy Battle rail. I hope Amazon isn’t losing its mind to all this madness.

CR Cobb

The purge has been started, but is not complete.

Leo Atrox

Among the prohibited listings is the nebulous and entirely-subjective “parts or accessories related to assault weapons”. Given the lack of any agreed-upon singular definition of “assault weapon” and the modularity of the modern AR, any item which may be mounted on a rail or keymod mount–or converted to do so–and any parts, including stocks, are prohibited and may be delisted at the whim of Amazon.

Raptor

Right, but if Amazon were starting this blacklist, wouldn’t they be enforcing it upon themselves as well? I bought these parts DIRECTLY from Amazon, not from a third party store.

Their terms have the wonderful prohibition of “Parts or accessories related to assault weapons”.

GonzoI

Definitely a lot of details missing. It’s not clear in the blog post if the 48 hours has passed or not. Even if it has, they are apparently relying on sellers to remove product listings, so it may be a while before they go through and enforce this on whatever products are affected.

What legality reasons? They sold magazines for years up until a couple months ago. I’ve purchased about 5-6 different magazines from Amazon before they took them off. Are you saying “legality reasons” because of state bans? Because that was already addressed, certain round counts weren’t available to certain states. I don’t think that was the reason.

The cold civil war proceeds apace, with individuals and companies choosing sides. If Amazon and eBay choose to be anti-gun, then gun owners and gun companies can take their business elsewhere. It’s also an opportunity for a bunch of bright entrepreneurs to step in and service what Amazon and eBay choose not to.

Well they are and plenty of companies will fill the gap. Look how many are courting gun companies based in NewYork.

Burst

This article, while well-intentioned, is so nonspecific as to be useless. What are the banned products in question- And under what heading of the restricted products section do they fall under? Unless the suggestion is that Amazon is trying to stop all gun-related sales?

I will suggest that just because something is legal, it does not follow that it’s therefore free of liability, and associated costs.

Nadnerbus

I suspect Steve was being purposely vague so as to keep the identity of his source obscured. I trust he has more to back his post than what he has so far revealed. More details would be welcome though. I’ll wait to see how things play out for a bit before I swear off Amazon forever, though, this may be a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing or something like that.

Availability and reviews. Price.. free shipping… its one hell of a marketplace.

Ray

If I was richer or more skilled I’d see this as an opportunity and open a bookstore dedicated to anything and everything to do with weaponry. Amazon are just hurting themselves with this one.

Bill R.

I have yet to see any issues with the firearm related items I buy from Amazon but I have been afraid of this type of thing happening. Hopefully this is just an anomaly and not a sign of what’s to come.

Tim Pearce

Well, push come to shove, Gun Broker, or various other companies are more than capable of picking up the slack.

Well this sucks. I live in Alaska and have ordered gun parts from both ebay and amazon.
Shipping from other outfits can really suck. Some outfits only want to use Brown or Fedex..which is fine if you live in the Contiguous 48. Not so much if you live in Alaska.

Please give us more information. I am an Amazon Prime member and spend hundreds of dollars at Amazon annually. If they are pulling some sneaky BS, I want to know about it. What items were pulled?

Leo Atrox

I’m right with you. I’m a Prime member, and a Kindle Fire owner, and I was raised very near Amazon in Bellevue, WA (in a very libertarian corner of the country). I’m a loyal customer that spends a lot of money in the various Amazon marketplaces …
Among the prohibited listings is the nebulous and entirely-subjective “parts or accessories related to assault weapons”. Given the lack of any agreed-upon singular definition of “assault weapon” and the modularity of the modern AR, any item which may be mounted on a rail or keymod mount–or converted to do so–and any parts, including stocks, are prohibited and may be delisted at the whim of Amazon.

Steve (TFB Editor)

See the link in my updated post.

Shane

I don’t know if you’ll see this so late but I just went to buy a magpul fore grip (previously available) and they are no longer available on amazon. I think I will take my business elsewhere.

gunslinger

Steve

i’m sorry, but the vagueness of the article leaves me with some major q’s. Amazon has a pretty clear policy on the web about what it allows and does not allow. I was able to search for things like holsters and scopes, and they are “permitted listings”. so i’m at a loss as to why this is a big deal. unless said vendors were selling permitted items, and now amazon says no.

can we get any more info? i mean this is like saying, hey this guy said he’s won’t let you sell “gun stuff” from his place. i mean, come on.

David in Philly

From the photo included in the post, I would have guessed what was banned was a book called “Expedient Homemade Firearms: The 9mm Submachine Gun” by P.A. Luty, but that book is still available on the site. So I am as baffled by this as the other commenters.

The above is Amazons publicly posted restrictions on firearms/weapons and accessories sales. Some things they allow, some they do not. They also reserve the right to review specific items and make determinations based on policy if not specifically covered.

The item in question in the image above could conceivably fall under the listings of automatic weapons and kits as it is an instruction manual for an automatic weapon build.

I personally understand the decision. Please note that this does not imply my agreement or disagreement.

ian

More gun owner victimhood and manufactured outrage. I was under the assumption that a company was allowed to choose which services and goods it wishes to sell.

Michael L. Seery

Oh, you were not. Never had lunch in Greensboro, did you?

Rob Pincus

Yes… details,including that name on the card so we can contact them and ask what’s up, would be nice….

Rob, Read what Steve said in an above comment. The event is the business of the readers sources are not. Just wait for it.
By the way I canceled my Amazon account earlier this evening.

unclezip

If this is true, I’ll no longer shop with Amazon, and I will close my Kindle account.

Mr. Fahreneheit

Eh.. Amazon can make their own policies and I have a choice to shop there or not. However, unless someone else starts up a company that lets me place a web order and have it at my house the usually next day for the bargain price of $79 a year, I don’t think I’ll be going anywhere else.

Heck, I’ve had several instances where I was going to make a return and I got an e-mail back from them saying, “Don’t bother. Keep it and we’ll also credit you the cost.”

You can’t beat customer service like that.

junyo

Well, that last bit is more PR spin on a profit decision that customer service. Since Amazon pays return shipping, they’ve coded their return system to figure out the return cost versus the over/under on the SKU and if it will cost them money to take it back, they ‘magnanimously’ tell you not to worry about it. It’s clever, but it’s purely cost driven.

cyrano

I just bought a stock wrench, brass catcher and single point sling mount just a week or so ago. A search of Amazon still shows them for sale. What items are restricted?

This article, while it may be proven true in 48 hours, suggests that Amazon.com policy is rapidly changing against sellers of gun related items. This would prohibit hundreds of thousands of items which currently do not violate their stated policy on prohibited items as of 2/14/2013.

Has the author, Steve, received confirmation of the same treatment from other Amazon store owners? If yes, I’m sure that would have been published here.

Based on what evidence? There have been so many calls on both sides of the 2a debate that I’d rather look at solid evidence before getting all ZOMG.

gunslinger

Phil

We do have some trust in you, but TFB has been forthcoming with evidence in other cases. here we have TFB saying “OH NOES AMAZON IS ANTIGUN, ZOMG!!!”. with all the anti-gun stuff going on, i want to base my opinions on facts, not crazed knee-jerk reactions. Would anyone believe me if i said.. hey don’t use a credit card. they rejected a friend of mine’s business from taking them because of something about guns. does that make sense to you? would you stop using your bank card because of that?

and i find it hard to believe if you said what products we would be able to guess what company it is, but unless it’s something specific, like the slide fire stock or tannerite/binary compound targets (and i’m not sure if they sold directly on amazon) , i don’t see how saying “quad rail” “holo sights” etc… would single out a company.

i mean, does anybody else know any other single product firearm companies?

Yes we have been forthcoming in other cases. This was a matter of wait until it happens and report it after the fact or protect the source and let the readers know what’s coming.

The products are specific enough a good number would now who it is. If we have no integrity and fail to protect the source we get no information from anyone in the future.

I’m sure Steve would rather take the amount of negative comments, which I honestly found surprising, than betray a trust. I know Steve well and I’m more than willing to take his word without all the facts. I was told what I was told and didn’t ask for the rest of the story. In my case it’s not blind faith but informed trust from his past track record.

Some keep saying nothing has changed and I’ve checked. Well if it hasn’t happened yet why would you see change?

When it’s all said and done I imagine at least some will owe him an apology. This is just my opinion and where I stand on this subject.

Protect the source from what? As per you, Amazon is already going to erase the source’s products from the marketplace. If anything, not naming the source prevents the pro-gun community reading this to intentionally make purchases from the source to show support.

The notification in the article shows that these products would have been removed at LEAST 2 days ago. Yet Amazon still looks the same.

Honestly, the source doesn’t even need named. Just one example of product that was removed should be enough for people to verify (not exact product model/brand, just product type). My guess is that these items were already banned by Amazon policy but they were overly lax on enforcement (like they are with a number of other things) until people report the seller for being in violation.

David Christian

I can state unequivocally that Amazon is changing their policy as they see fit, in at least one instance they changed the policy after the fact to support their decision. I just had a listing for a Magpul sling removed (even though the exact same item is still for sale by dozens of other sellers and similar items are for sale by hundreds of others). At the time I complained, slings was not mentioned anywhere in the list of prohibited products. After they researched my case they told me to look at the policy and that “single-point slings or tactical slings” are prohibited. Sure enough, it is NOW on the list where it was not at the time I complained. I have a cached copy of the page to prove it.

Sianmink

So it seems the only questionable bit is the ‘parts related to assault weapons’, which is worrying in its utter vagueness. I say we get a definition from amazon and go from there.

sianmink

I’ve emailed them requesting a definition. Looking closer at their policy, they specifically allow listings of:

I just compared their Help page on restricted weapons compared to a cached version of the page from 01/29/2013. There have been no policy changes in the past 2 weeks. I looked back at the policy from a cached copy from 12/06/2011 and there have been very few changes to the document. The only thing added to the list of example items that were banned was “bullets” and “shotgun shells” but those items were already banned an just not listed. Gun powder and “bullet tips” were already on the 2011 list.

Except the reviews on those sites are less than stellar. (“It came with a discount coupon, 8.5 stars!!!”)

Amazon has a set standard, and this is disappointing. their rule about “Assault Weapons” is confusing and vague.

Criticalthinkingiscritical

A very good point. The reviews on Amazon are far more in depth than Midway, Cabella, CheaperThanDirt, etc.

Another bummer is this means no more two day free shipping. A surprising number of gun accessories (sights, AR slings, grips) I’ve bought from Amazon were actually fulfilled by amazon so they qualified for the Prime shipping deal.

I’ve ordered a ton of gun stuff via Amazon Prime in the last couple of months. In fact, I had all manner of Glock parts show up at my house just yesterday, and Froglube being delivered today. So…how are these decisions being made? What’s the test, as my Torts professor would say?

CR Cobb

“Parts or accessories related to assault weapons.” Another company falls in line with the hoard of politically-correct sheep goose stepping their way to hell.

Leo Atrox

Here’re the lists of permitted and prohibited items relating to “weapons”:

Pull up your big boy pants. Until I see Bezos running around saying that the State should take custody of the means of production for the workers, I’m going to call bull.

Generally, incredibly wealthy businessmen(as opposed to celebrities who don’t have a dog in the fight) err on the side of capitalism, not state custody of production.

BeeKaaay

Pay attention kiddo. I’m not talking about Communism, which is the ultimate goal of Marxism.

I’m talking about Marxism, which spans the entire spectrum of leftwingwackoism.

One key tenet of Marxism is incrementalism. Americans will never accept full blown communism, but if we just take baby steps every year, we will eventually get there Comrade.

Boiling frog.

This is what Marxism is all about.

Ronald

Good point!

JMK

I don’t know what they are trying to do but I can always take my business somewhere else. People are just getting down right stupid over this matter.

Fu#kObama

The boycott can work two ways… I will never buy another thing from Amazon.com…

purplelighter

Unless the 2A has been changed to include Buy gun parts wherever you want, this has nothing to do with 2A rights. You going to boycott your local gas station, pizza joint and liquor store because they don’t sell ammunition and Magpul accessories?

One more time there won’t be anything to see because it hasn’t happened yet. I’m not privy to all the information but I do trust Steve.

Nadnerbus

For any other type of retail items, I would normally agree with you. Free markets govern themselves for the most part. However, because of the highly politicized nature of guns in this country, especially at the moment, I think any high profile decision like this has to be brought to light and resisted by people that believe in gun rights. Any time a big company, for whatever internal reasoning, announces something like this, it has high propaganda value for the anti gun side, as well as the practical effect of further marginalizing and isolating the gun community from mainstream America. Blithely accepting a major corporation’s opinions on what is OK and not OK to sell regardless of law has effects down the road.

Steve (TFB Editor)

If I reveal the range of products the company makes, it would be pretty obvious who the company is. They asked not to be identified. I can guarantee you they are banning a range of gun parts and accessories. I suspect their system has yet to identify other vendors who are still able to sell gun parts.

Are these parts/accessories that they did not prohibit a year ago or do you guarantee there will be a policy change shortly? At this point, it sounds more like a case of them enforcing old rules.

Pat O

I have placed my last order from Obama’s Amazon. I have banned Dick & Walmart as well. I will only support those who support the 2ed Ammendment.

MRW

My email to them:
As a customer since 1996 I am deeply upset over your policy to restrict firearms accessory sales on amazon.com. The 2nd amendment is as important as the 1st amendment. Once a business starts to dabble in politics it risks isolating customers. If you continue to ban firearms related items I will cease to purchase anything from your company. That includes the numerous ec2 instances that my company currently uses. I will also do my best to insure that everyone I know and do business with knows of your un-American and un-Patriotic policies. I hope you make the right choice.

It would appear that Amazon’s senior executives made their decision as a business-based one on the advice of their Risk Management Team, i.e., liability specialists and lawyers who normally deal with this sort of issue and the pros and cons thereof.
The problem is that Risk Management in many ( not all ) corporations I have come across tend to err to a very large degree towards the conservative side, for the obvious reason that they not only wish to preserve their own jobs and good standing within the company and are afraid of ultimate liability but also because many of them only have partial knowledge of the issues at hand and are not completely immersed in — nor thoroughly well-versed in — the real facts surrounding those issues. Therefore, a lot of conclusions are drawn based on perceptions and, as we all know, a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And perceptions, just like opinions, are something every Tom, Dick and Harry has, regardless of its relevance to truth or facts.
The end result is more often than not impractical and unrealistic, and where “risk aversion”, repeated like a sacred mantra, is given higher priority than real-time, workable, balanced and sensible yet safe solutions. Add to that the general tendency to reward such behaviours, and the conclusion is almost inevitable in many cases. It is really unfortunate that Amazon seems to be little different in that respect — at least with regard to firearms-related accessories — at this point in time.

actual guns are being sold on ebay all the time. If you look you can see 22 barrelled receivers being sold all the time. Here is one example of a shotgun receiver. item num 140915541299. Ebay wont remove, atf says they will do nothing about it.I think it will be used as some other excuse for more laws.

anonymous dude

ebay item num
140916354397
barrelled shotgun receiver.

anonymous dude

ebay item num 290848972379 barrelled winchester 22 action and trigger. Legally a firearm. They will probably wait until some criminal buys off ebay after they refused to do anything and then use to justify whatever they want.

anonymous dude

ebay item num

170989042066
mossberg barrelled receiver I dont see the current laws being enforced.

Tek

Idiots, they don’t even know the difference between a butterfly knife (balisong) and a switchblade. You can buy throwing knives but not throwing stars. Sounds like some more super liberal dumbtard is running the show over there.

Magazines were widely available on Amazon about 4-5 months ago. I have no idea why they would take these off, as they are not preventing people from buying magazines or owning guns, they are merely preventing Amazon from making money off of said sales.

I, too, am a Prime member….I spend a LOT of $$ on that site. Personally, I feel that if we retaliate by not using Amazon and not renewing our Prime memberships we will send a mssg. The only problem is finding people willing to take a stand. This entire thing is BS of the highest degree.

purplelighter

Haven’t read about this anywhere else that doesn’t lead back to this blog. I haven’t seen any appreciable changes in what is available.

How about a 5 day update?

doggen

Someone needs to found a new company: Freezon. Anything legal can be sold there. It’s siblings will be Freetube (no more Youtube censorship).

bmga1776

I just went to amazon, typed in the search engine items such as AR 15, Magpul, AR-15 slings, etc.. and lists of those items and parts came up. I think further research needs to be completed before accepting this report. It may be true, but don’t jump to conclusions.

Pan Fish

Looked in the forum section and the sheep are in denial this happened.

A guy in Oregon

In the last 2 weeks, I received my new stock, sling, forward grip, lower parts kit, back up sights, buffer tube, spring, etc…
However, based on the listing from the above link, I will no longer do ANY business with amazon.

It’s been almost two weeks now, and there are still plenty of gun parts available on Amazon, including those sold directly by them. What’s the deal?

Cymond

Agreed. It’s been 2 weeks. At what point will this be considered disproven if it isn’t confirmed?

mad amazon seller

exactly …you said it…..being sold by them…. my items are down but yet the FBA is still up.

osiris winno

support amazon and your supporting on loseing your right`s, Such narrow mindness, what do i mean, all national news has been focused on the gun, NOTHING EVER SAID ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH THE PERSON HOLDING THE GUN.

Robesq

Bye Bye, Amazon.

juanvaldezisawesome

If this policy is not reversed I am ending my relationship with Amazon. I can buy things elsewhere. Fuck them.

Concerned seller

Amazon stops you from selling these items BUT ALLOWS FBA to be done on them…BS all the way. Its like they let sellers put up items see what sells best and all of the sudden its now an amazon item.

I asked amazon in an email if I could send my banned items to them to ship and if not why cant I sell my same item. I inquired about 1 item on November 6th 2013 there response 24 hrs later was “Amazon Seller Support notes about the conversation: ASIN B00FDWLF4U-Magpul Industries Handguard Mid Length Stock AR Rifles MAG418-BLK – Fulfilled by Amazon Sellers can sell through their inventory but no more inventory can be sent in.

”

Notice that ansi number does not work any longer after complaining countless times they removed it but A$$ H*LE$ relisted it just adding an extra “U” at the end of the old number.