62 comments:

Shootin buddy isn't grouchy enough. And you'd have to explain the "Fly paper, mall ninja" thing to everyone except gunnies. But you're right, if Justin can parlay his curmudgeon dad into a TV show, you have to be able to do something better to make money with.

In fairness, several collectors I know have original Remington .41 Rimfires in shadowboxes on their walls. Ornament, pocket shooting at contact range a la Hicock's murder of Phil Coe, and developing a nearly impossible to cure flinch is about the sum of it for Derringers. Or Deringers, if you prefer.

But that does not stop people who inherit one from trying .41 Magnum ammo in them. It is a good thing the Remington's are rimfire or someone would be missing a hand.

I know the shit I know - some semi-auto rifle stuff, a little pistol and bolt-action rile shooting. And I know that I don't know a lot of other shit - re-loading, anything to do with shotguns, gunsmithing, oldie-time rifles and pistols, etc... So people who do this stuff are okay with me because I'm not obnoxious (most of the time).

OA, that's the problem though - the NAA Minis are hard to shoot, require difficult fine motor control in a stressful situation, and are more anemic than a friggin' .25. So for all of that, why not carry an ultralight J-frame or a Ruger LCR? They're not much bigger, and make a lot more sense as a last ditch "get off me" weapon.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to attach a disclaimer to my statement. I apologize for being unclear.

The NAA Mini is a wretched, hopeless pile of engineering fail that should not be carried by anyone for any serious purpose. For every niche you think the NAA Mini fills, I can suggest a half dozen others that would work better. I have never seen one fire more than a few rounds without a misfire, and I've seen two that went a dozen strikes without igniting a cartridge. The combination of a tiny, weak hammer spring, a tiny hammer and RF priming cannot be made to work reliably enough to be considered for defensive use.

If you cannot accommodate at least a J-frame, then just give up and admit that you don't want to actually carry a gun.

The danger of the NAA Mini is that it can make someone think they are carrying a gun and act accordingly.

The term in the vernacular for marginal pieces is "It beats a handful of nothing," but in the case of the Mini, it only barely beats it, and not always then. I'd much rather have a Gracie preoccupied with trying to shoot me with a NAA Mini Revolver than actually trying to choke me out. At least I can run from the former...

Well bless their hearts, if they can't figure out how to operate that style of gun in a stressful situation, lets get them something their little heads can figure out without getting the vapors and needing the fainting couch, eh?

People like what they like. Something is better than nothing (and a NAA Mini against the skull ain't nothing), no matter how much folks puff up and engage in internet cluckery about this being better than that. Hell, want to play that game in regards to cars? kids? spouses? jobs? or just write this off as all too typical internet horseshit on a Monday?

NAA Mini .22 Mag: Weight, 5.9 ounces unloaded. Barrel length: 1.75 inches. Single action. 5 round capacity. Cylinder must be completely removed from the gun to be reloaded. From that barrel, the a 40 grain .22 Mag round is doing about 850 FPS.

Beretta Jetfire in .25 ACP: weight 9.9 ounces. Barrel length: 2.3 inches. Single action. 9 round capacity and can be easily reloaded with spare magazines. A .25 ACP hollow point is doing about 850/900 FPS out of that barrel.

For 4 MORE OUNCES you get four extra rounds, a much more shootable gun, and the same terminal ballistics. Good god, you're actually better off with the Jetfire than you are with an NAA Mini.

People like what they like. Something is better than nothing (and a NAA Mini against the skull ain't nothing), no matter how much folks puff up and engage in internet cluckery about this being better than that.

Uh, no. The problem is that you didn't spend "nothing" to get the NAA Mini, and you could have gotten a gun for the same price.

A J-frame would work even better against a nefarian's skull, and do a whole lot other better and more reliably too.

Look, a lump of metal doesn't become a death ray just because it throws a projectile. The NAA Mini is demonstrably unreliable, difficult to work and anemic when it does. These are not opinions.

I don't own a NAA Mini. I do however feel people should be able to buy what ever they damn well please, even if some know it all on the internet knows better (yet I'm guessing they wouldn't be willing to use their skulls as the target with a Mini pressed against it).

There used to be another reader here who commented under the name "OA", but I guess you're new. To clarify for y'all who just arrived, I totally believe people should be able to buy whatever they damn well please. Hell, they can buy and carry a bottle of lemon juice and no, I won't volunteer to let them squirt me in the eye with it.

No, I would not volunteer to take a bullet from an NAA mini. That's not the point. Also, I agree that people should be (and are allowed) to buy whatever gun they want. But just because you're allowed to buy an NAA Mini doesn't mean you should.

A .25 is a compromise. It fits in a pocket and can be carried anywhere. A .32 is a compromise. It's a little bigger and has less ammo, but can be carried anywhere. A .45 ACP is a compromise. It's not a .308, but it's a lot easier to tote a 1911 in the grocery store than an AR10.

No one is going to volunteer to take a bullet from anything unless they're stupid. The point is that there are a lot better choices for delivering that bullet than a small gun that is EXTREMELY difficult to shoot well.

"The point is that there are a lot better choices for delivering that bullet than a small gun that is EXTREMELY difficult to shoot well."

No, the point is that those better choices (of which, there are many) aren't worth a damn if they're at home. It doesn't matter if they shouldn't be at home, it doesn't matter if someone carries the Mini because it's cute or just has a thing for it, what matters is that it's there when it's needed and it will kill someone dead if they're close enough to get their pecker wet. That's it, that's all.

/me headdesks. Kris, I never said that you shouldn't buy an NAA mini if you just have to have one. But if you're buying a defensive firearm and can only afford X dollars, than I'd strongly discourage someone from using their hard earned cash on one.

Look at it this way: someone is buying their first car. Which would you recommend, a manual transmission Micro-car that has a reputation for being finicky about fuel, maintenance, and is considered "difficult to drive" by Car and Driver? Or for slightly more money, would you recommend a Honda/Toyota/Ford that is easy to get fixed, driver friendly, blah blah blah.

While the niche of the classic Over&Under derringer is largely Gone With The Wind (in that I can't think of much of anything a Bond Arms .45 will do that can't be done better by something else, short of "be all cool and derringer-shaped") the NAA Mini still has a role. But it is a very tiny and sharply-defined role, and much of its previously-occupied turf has been usurped by guns like the Kel-Tec P-32 et cetera.

Back in the '90s, I knew more than one cop who carried an NAA Mini as a third gun in a boot top, on a shoelace around their neck, or even in a cigarette pack in their shirt pocket. Thing is, other than "in a cigarette pack", every one of those roles can be filled by a 6- or 7-shot .32 or .380 these days...

Long-time NRA High Power shooter/competitor here. Still trying to figure out that glue/veins comment, myself. More solid in the offhand hold vs. slinging up tight, perhaps? I've long since cut out caffeine before matches, but I'll try anything, maybe even intravenous glue, to get more rounds into the X-ring.

J-frames are just for people who haven't discovered the awesome-sauce that is the Colt D-frame! Long live the Cobra! (I'm just funnin', I don't mean no harm. Hey, I like D-frames, and the J-frame is just small enough to seem kind of uncomfortable and toy-like when I'm holding it . . . but that's just me, and I don't snicker at the J-frame, there's just something I like better.)

Only actual case I know of a derringer being shot for blood, was a senior citizen in a robbery of a barbershop a couple years ago. Two BG's. When they told the customer and barbers to get on the floor, the old guy drew the gun (.22mag, IIRC) from his back pocket (it had been concealed with a snot rag). Both dropped instantly from head shots, the one standing right next to him survived. This was in the South East (Atlanta?).

Thought they were the coolest thing ever for most of my life, until I actually fired one.At that point I found out that my hands are waay too big to hold one of those little guys properly. I had to lay my thumb across the top of the cylnder and barrel to get it to work.

Al, the problem with your example is that you're using that .22 as a contact weapon. That means that Mr. 230lb mugger is probably going to be in physical contact, and trying to do his best to keep you from screwing said muzzle into his ear the same way he'd be trying to keep you from shoving a knife in his ear.

Personally, I don't want a gun whose most effective range is measured in inches.

1) "...if my primary carryon ain't at the moment being carried on, you just keep your knife or your nothing, and me and my little naa will just keep to ourselves..."If my primary carry isn't on me, then a J-frame is. If a J-frame isn't, then the metal detector found your NAA, too.

2)"...and things escalate with Gracie such that she goes for the choking you out approach..."

High Power Rifle and glue.....there was a build up of pounds of the stuff on the M-14 I started out with. It's what happens when you weigh 130 lbs and what to clean sitting rapid soooo bad you could taste it. Now they start the string already in position and the black guns don't recoil enough for anybody to try to glue themselves to the earth and the rifle. Tiny little kids can shoot cleans at 200 rapid nowadays...it's not a "manly" game any longer. (runs and hides from the current HP shooters)

We had a Davis .380. It did for what we wanted at the time. We also have a Frontier Arms mini--which NAA copied off of. I occasionally carry it when it's hot enough that I don't want to change out of my shorts for a quick trip to the store. But, between Mrs. Drang's Keltec PF9 and my J Frame, I don't carry it any more

A lot of comments about derringers, which are right there on the list of guns I don't want to get shot with, but still not the firearm I would choose to carry.

Not enough discussion about intravenous glue and high power shooting. Because if he has some secret way to make my rifle still in the off-hand position, I want to hear more about it. Or is he saying he thinks high power shooting is boring?

There's no shooting sport I've tried I think is boring. Most are very difficult and proficiency is the result of many hours of practice and box after box of ammo sent downrange. I don't shoot true high-power or ultra long range, but I do shoot Garand Matches, and find them interesting and challenging.

I own a lot of impractical guns because I think they are kewl. I just don't carry them!

When talking about size a SIG P238, Kel-Tec P3AT, or Ruger LCP are all about the same size as that Jetfire, and in the much more powerful .380. Florida gets hot enough that even a J frame is hard to conceal without getting heat stroke; but it's doable.

My 640 is not easy to shoot, but it's easier than the NAA a "friend" swears by. I have watched that thing fail at the range. Cocking it means changing your grip radically and once your five rounds are gone, you have to take it apart to reload.

Another NAA peculiarity: Ever notice how people who bought the magnum version always seem to quote the published velocity for a 22" barrel?

Yes, the gun that you have on you trumps the gun at home in the safe; but as someone said, "bring enough gun".

Did you know that open carry of bush knives is pretty normal custom round here? And really good Brazillian made bush knives are plentiful and cheap... cheap enough to stash at least one in each vehicle.

Hey, I need some sort of tool to open kulaus (green coconuts)- an all natural version of gatoraid.

@Caleb: "Which would you recommend, a manual transmission Micro-car that has a reputation for being finicky about fuel, maintenance, and is considered "difficult to drive" by Car and Driver?" Assuming you're referring to the Smart; oddly enough, I would. But then, I don't agree with the "difficult to drive" comment, premium fuel isn't that hard to find, and while I have both changed my own oil and (drum) brakes, these days any car is going to a professional for maintenance beyond that anyway. That having been said, I wouldn't recommend it as their ONLY car; I use mine as a commuter seat and we have a sedate sedan for the times we need to pack more than a grocery cart worth of cargo (or passengers).

But then, I was given (more or less - in exchange I became the family chauffeur) a 6y.o. Izuzu Pup 4-banger stickshift in white the day I turned 16. My father's logic (and apparently the insurance co agreed, based on the merely extortionate premiums) was that a mini-pickup didn't have enough seating in the cab to truly distract the driver, white is the safest automobile color (or was at the time - I don't know why), and a mildly underpowered stickshift would both keep me out of trouble in the overspeed dept and make it vanishinly unlikely (even 20 years ago) that any of my friends could drive the damn thing. Assuming they're still available when and if, I plan to provide my offspring with something along those lines myself; and the Smart has the additional advantage of not being abel to pack 10 teens into the cargo bay (admittedly, at the cost of a true stickshift. I'll admit that not having to work the clutch is nice in stop&go traffic, though)

Nothing in this comment should be taken as an endorsement of Deringers, however. They make pretty pieces of smitten art, and are nice and historical like. Wouldn't carry one on a bet that anyone I know is likely to make.

I'm with whoever was wanting an explanation of the high-power/glue in veins remark.

"like I was reading a THR 9mm v. .45 debate."

I would just like to state for the record that chocolate is completely inferior to vanilla. (At least as far as ice cream is concerned.)

People buy all kinds of impractical things. Black powder pistols. Reproduction flint-lock rifles. .50 caliber rifles. (there isn't a range long enough within reasonable distance of my home for something like this.) Reproductions of old-west rifles and shotguns and six-shooters. (My personal favorite impractical possession is "boats." I own 2.)

My NAA mini is cute and shiny and lives in my weak-hand pocket when I'm in the city.

I've had it since sometime in the mid-eighties, and while it's a PITA to shoot and I pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that it's never my only gun, it has never once in 25 years failed to go bang - which is why I keep it around.

My great hope is that, if I'm ever forced to actually draw it, my opponent will be so distracted by his fit of laughter that I can make a quick, safe getaway.

Joel, could happen. A plainclothes officer attached to a dynamic entry was wandering down a hallway when a BG stepped out of a room ahead of him with a shotgun. He whipped out his handgun, realized his clipon holster had come with it, and had to knock it off the gun. The BG got to laughing, and ended up on the floor, he was laughing so hard.

"I have had 3 carbine classes now, all of which had Pat Rogers as instructor.

No mall ninjas were in attendence."

Pat Rogers is an excellent instructor. He is also among the most powerful flypaper for mall ninjary. (Although you may have a different term for slightly overweight middle-aged insurance executives who spend a weekend dressed like a SEAL in downtown Fallujah when, in fact, if they ever use their carbine in real life, they'll be wearing a bathrobe and slippers and their dump pouch will be on the other side of the house.)

Well, I don't claim a vast knowledge about guns. I've wanted a derringer since my Cowboy and Indian days. They always seemed to pop out at just the right time and could be hidden anywhere.

I didn't want a 45/410, just a little, but adequate caliber that would still have a punch from such a short barrel. I got a 9mm.

My experience has been quite educational. The trigger doesn't pull/squeeze back, it pulls down. I solved that by "rolling" my finger under the barrel to the trigger that produced a downward movement to release the sear and fire the cartridge.

I do believe that there is quite a bit of recoil absorbed by the slide when you fire a standard 9mm handgun. When I fired the little derringer the first time I thought it might have blown up, the recoil was so harsh. The second shot was pretty much the same.

I don't hate the derringer. I think it might even have a good purpose, close up and last resort. For everyday carry I'll stick with my PPK or in cooler weather my 1911.

Blind shooter: That's why they have traditional military rifle matches. I'm building a cheater at the moment.

I've gotten to the age where I need the peep sight, and all my '17Enfields have been converted to something or other else, so I took a Springfield '03 action, cut the dovetail off an M-1 Carbine rear sight (same as a Springfield dovetail), EB welded it on the bridge, and am making up my "new" Springfield 03A3 on a Boyt stock and a Shaw barrel that shoots suprisingly well.

It should be fine, as long as nobody gets fussy about the serial number....