Hi, dreamzpainter. In a number of western European countries, it was (and probably still is) customary for restaurants to incorporate a 15% gratuity into the bill. I had heard this was aggravating to many NYC (et al) servers who waited on tables of visiting Europeans who had assumed (either unknowingly or perhaps handily) that a gratuity had already been included in the bill and thus left no tip, stiffing the server.

I don't get out of the boondocks that often anymore, but is this an increasing practice to add a tip to the bill before presenting it? Do they post a notice at the entryway or have it printed in more than one place on the menu so that patrons are aware of this, or do the servers present the bill without mentioning it in hopes of double dipping from diners who only give their bill a cursory glance?

In the auctioneering business in the past 20 years, there has been an insidious spread of the buyer's premium, which is a surcharge (usually 10-20%) added to the gavel price to yield a final price. Some people who are unfamiliar with this spreading practice really hit the ceiling when it's time to check out and they find out they're expected to pay "more than they bid"; woe to the auctioneer who fails to prominently post that there will be a buyer's preminum in effect for that sale. Typically there is a sign to this effect at the registration desk, in the catalog if it's a cataloged sale, in all advertisements, and in the verbal announcement of conditions of sale just before the auction starts to avoid any misunderstanding.

So, after my babbling, my question remains: Is the tip inclusion on the check a growing phenomena here, is it a regional thing, or an upper crust thing like professionals in Georgian England billing their clients in gold guineas instead of pounds sterling to skim an extra shilling (21 shillings in a guinea, only 20 to the pound) off each pound? Is it posted or mentioned beforehand?

hmmm if I need to quantify every smart alex remark I'll be here forever.. I have only HEARD of the practice but I'm sure it would have to be someplace that not not only requires shoes and socks but a coat and tie as well, in other words a place you will never find me

What's worse is a NYC Chinese delivery guy acting like he can't make chance for a $20 or giving you as much time as possbile to say keep the change.

For catering proposals, I include a line item called discretionary gratuity and include a 5-20% tip depending on the level of service and leave it up to the client to tell me if they want to keep, eliminate, increase or decrease it. Now most clients leave it as is. Before, 50% of clients didn't tip. What are your thoughts on this approach?

For catering proposals, I include a line item called discretionary gratuity and include a 5-20% tip depending on the level of service and leave it up to the client to tell me if they want to keep, eliminate, increase or decrease it. Now most clients leave it as is. Before, 50% of clients didn't tip. What are your thoughts on this approach?

i feel that if you need a tip on catering, simply raise your base price and be done with it. tiping should not be expected, nor required! nor should it be monetary, all the time. dont forget what 'tip' actually means. as for the first question in this thread: in the past, we(the Misses and I) have fired our share of wait staff for asking that very question. i bet if you were to inform the floor manager of anyone asking "do you need any change?", you would not see that person on your return visit.

RE- Auction Buyers Premium-- Here in the rural heartland, a few of the dealers have posted notices of Buyers premiums on their auctions...but the crowd at these events has been much smaller than at the usual auction. Buyers bitch about paying Sales Tax (especially since Ebay sales have soared) much less a fee for buying from a dealer. A couple of guys tried to charge a registration fee to obtain a bid number...This died a quick death also.

I am a believer in " a Tip is a reward for good service" and don't want to have that legislated into the general fee for whatever I have purchased.

i feel that if you need a tip on catering, simply raise your base price and be done with it. tiping should not be expected, nor required! nor should it be monetary, all the time. dont forget what 'tip' actually means.

well, i can only tell you that, right or wrong, it's absolutely standard in the catering circles i work in. what's really unexpected is the occasional tip i get when i chef a party. not frequent, but if it arrives it's usually pretty sizeable.

Originally posted by Scallion1well, i can only tell you that, right or wrong, it's absolutely standard in the catering circles i work in. what's really unexpected is the occasional tip i get when i chef a party. not frequent, but if it arrives it's usually pretty sizeable.

That is my experience as well. I recently received a gratuity that was equal to my chef on site fee. It was very appreciated because I worked very hard to please these people and it showed. I'm not comfortable with billing a gratuity as our servers make very decent money by our local industry's standards. If a server knows they are getting a tip they do not work as hard. I've seen it happen over and over.

Originally posted by Scallion1well, i can only tell you that, right or wrong, it's absolutely standard in the catering circles i work in. what's really unexpected is the occasional tip i get when i chef a party. not frequent, but if it arrives it's usually pretty sizeable.

That is my experience as well. I recently received a gratuity that was equal to my chef on site fee. It was very appreciated because I worked very hard to please these people and it showed. I'm not comfortable with billing a gratuity as our servers make very decent money by our local industry's standards. If a server knows they are getting a tip they do not work as hard. I've seen it happen over and over.

the standard around here is that waiters work a five-hour minimum, and get paid $25/hr. if a client asks, i tell them that the rule of thumb for a normal party is one hour's pay, which, obviously, is %20. i got in the habit of doing this because on certain holidays they get time and a half, on some double time.i never expect a tip, no matter how hard i work, since mrs. scallion has told me for years that the owner of the beauty parlor doesn't expect tips. when i owned a restaurant and occasionally tended bar, i'd put everything in the tip cup and then, usually, give it to the kitchen to split up.tips for owners, in my experience, are motivated by gratitude or shame. the biggest tip we ever got was $1,700 on a party that was billed, food and staff, at $7,500. the hostess had completely screwed us over, cut back on staff because she said her household help would be available. they never materialized, and we wound up killing ourselves, washing dishes, taking out garbage, sweeping the kitchen. her husband asked us how things had gone, knowing that there had been a problem, and slipped me the tip. but we'll never work for them again, and they know it.

Hey, waitresses have to make a living too. Keep in mind the people who dont tip them. Tips are a part of their wage, their income. As far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong if they ask if the customer wants change back.

Hey, waitresses have to make a living too. Keep in mind the people who dont tip them. Tips are a part of their wage, their income. As far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong if they ask if the customer wants change back.

I am just curious, and you surely seem enlightened on the subject, but wouldn't it just be easier to bring the change back without asking every time and be tipped accordingly than risk even one person being upset that you did something out of line? I guess I just don't see the downside to bringing someone their correct change -- unless you are not confident in the service you provided and feel that you need an edge to get an extra piece of a tip???

I make a point of tipping fairly well/ I do not like the question and would lower my tip (to 15%) if I were asked such a question by a server. I hope the managerwould give the server a warning and not fire the person.

Hey, waitresses have to make a living too. Keep in mind the people who dont tip them. Tips are a part of their wage, their income. As far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong if they ask if the customer wants change back.

Yes, they do. But there's another side to that coin; working for tips is like working freelance or working for commission. You trade stability and a guaranteed income for freedom and the chance for a big hit.

Maybe I'm just sour on this subject, but I remember all too well working for $178/wk at my first real restaurant job, when the bartenders and waiters were bringing in $200/NIGHT in CASH.

You make your choices, but you don't get to bitch about it if you can't have it both ways, says I.

I have been asked this question, and to be honest, I never really thought of it as asking for a tip. I guess I just assumed that the waiter or waitress was asking because they didn't know if what I was giving them was the exact amount of the check. (Pf course, this would only work in a place where they bring the check to you in a little leather folder). But now that you point it out, it is pretty tacky. It's almost as if they feel they have to remind you to tip, which is insulting.

I do understand that there are people who stiff wait staff on tips, but why does that now become MY problem to fix? As long as I get decent service, I will tip. If it's good, I'll tip better. If it's extremely good, I'll tip a lot better. But I don't think I should have to tip a lot more because the next person over stiffed them. THat's like asking wait staff at a posh restaurant to be happy with a smaller tip from me because I make less money than the next person.

As for automatic tipping, I HATE IT. I can see why some places think it's necessary, however, I have a family of 6, two adults and four children. I know of two places we have gone for dinner in the past year where we will not go again because a tip has been automatically added to my bill because there are 6 of us, even though 3 of the meals were kids' meals (my teenage son eats like an adult). At one of the places, the waitress was nice enough to point out to us that the tip had already been added; and at the other, it was rubber-stamped on the check in big letters. While I appreciate their letting me know, I just don't like the practice. The irony is, I almost always tip more than 15%, so the restaurant was actually shortchanging the wait staff by adding the 15%, because had they let me be the judge of how much to tip, they would have gotten a lot more.

I agree its rude to ask do you need change. We get tips here at arby's on the occasion and its never more then a buck and the usual is like a quarter.We don't like taking tips but we take them so the customer won't be offended by us not taking it.

Corporate was thinking of giving us the ability to tip ourselves. For instance if the customer dines in and used a credit or debit card and they leave a huge mess and then proceed to exit the building without cleaning up we would inform them that we will charge their card a maintainence fee of 5 bucks half to arby's the other half to the employee.I wish they would've went through with it because it gets on my last nerves when people bring theirselves and their trashy kids inside and make a huge mess and even leave their trays and wrappers all over the table.

.....it gets on my last nerves when people bring theirselves and their trashy kids inside and make a huge mess and even leave their trays and wrappers all over the table.

When you work in fast foods, this is what you are more likely to get, since the slobs are generally more comfortable with and can better afford a fast food restaurant than a fancier eating place. A person with a multitude of kids that won't behave knows that they are not likely to be thrown out of a fast food spot, since a vinyl floor is a lot easier to clean than a carpet. And since even the parents who care have few really effective ways to discipline kids these days (and the kids know it) it is just easier to drag them into a fast food place and let the kids behave as they will.

.....it gets on my last nerves when people bring theirselves and their trashy kids inside and make a huge mess and even leave their trays and wrappers all over the table.

When you work in fast foods, this is what you are more likely to get, since the slobs are generally more comfortable with and can better afford a fast food restaurant than a fancier eating place. A person with a multitude of kids that won't behave knows that they are not likely to be thrown out of a fast food spot, since a vinyl floor is a lot easier to clean than a carpet. And since even the parents who care have few really effective ways to discipline kids these days (and the kids know it) it is just easier to drag them into a fast food place and let the kids behave as they will.

Yea your right,but the stains on the carpet have to stay for one month til the carpet man gets here,he comes only once a month. We are one of the few stores to have carpeting.The management here is fed up with this because its costing us tons of money for the extra time it takes the employee to clean up.Plus its an inconveinence for the closer because he/she is late getting out of here.But the stupid policys forbid us from kicking people out and stuff like that.

on the other side of the coin........one of the catering jobs we just finished was for 50 people.. the man paying for it used a credit card. as he is signing, he asks "do i need to put a tip on here?" i wanted to say "what the heck kind of question is that!?" instead.... "@#$%&^*^*&)^&*_(*&)%&%^#$(*&)(*& " was a better response....heeheehee

another note..... a new restaurant in town called "three j's steakhouse" well, i go in there for lunch figuring to try it out. waitress took my order, brought me a soda, and never returned. i had to get the hostess to go figure my check! but the worst part.....i got sick for three days from that crap! now i remember why i only eat my own cooking....

I agree its rude to ask do you need change. We get tips here at arby's on the occasion and its never more then a buck and the usual is like a quarter.We don't like taking tips but we take them so the customer won't be offended by us not taking it.

Corporate was thinking of giving us the ability to tip ourselves. For instance if the customer dines in and used a credit or debit card and they leave a huge mess and then proceed to exit the building without cleaning up we would inform them that we will charge their card a maintainence fee of 5 bucks half to arby's the other half to the employee.I wish they would've went through with it because it gets on my last nerves when people bring theirselves and their trashy kids inside and make a huge mess and even leave their trays and wrappers all over the table.

It's interesting to see what issues set off Roadfooders. Tipping seems to be a red state-blue state type of thing here. What we need is some levity! Check out the Bud Light "Real Men of Genius" series radio spots. Hilarious! My view on tipping is summed up with "Mr. Fancy Coffee Shop Coffee Pourer". Enjoy...

If the server is doing their job then tips should not be an issue...they will come. Crappy tippers exist and can't be changed. They come back...well, sickness causing intervention isn't warrented but gross stuff is acceptable.

I have a tip jar on my front counter. I rake in mon to thur about $5,00 a day. on Fridays 10.00 I didn't want one but certain of my customers wanted one. I have a lot of customers who would go to the local store for me to get me supplies. This is not a business for everyone. you get back what you give! an exaMPLE suppose you had everything cleaned up and were going to lock up and a reg. cust. had to have something to eat.Would you say sorry charlie and go home.Or would you say: sure I'll feed you. Guess what I do? I feed them. they usuall ask how much? I give them my regular prices and they tip me for the service Generousely might I add.Cowboy Bob in Lancaster PA

It's interesting to see what issues set off Roadfooders. Tipping seems to be a red state-blue state type of thing here. What we need is some levity! Check out the Bud Light "Real Men of Genius" series radio spots. Hilarious! My view on tipping is summed up with "Mr. Fancy Coffee Shop Coffee Pourer". Enjoy...

I have watched a particular group of customers (profession) repeatedly leave our restuarant without tipping. Some of these people were our customers when I was the primary waitstaff and I guess that the notion was that, "the owner wasn't due tips" or "maybe the owner would be offended if I tipped", I'm not sure. But, when we hired enough staff that I was no longer on the floor as a server, this group continued their practice of "non-tipping". Now then, we serve on disposables, but we provide non-hosted (find your own table, somebody will be with you in just a sec)"full service". Orders are taken, refills are provided, food is delivered, desserts are offered and delivered. The bill is paid at a cash register on the way out. Now, why would someone think that a tip was not in order? Don't know, but when I placed the jar on the counter, some of these folks would ask, "what's the jar for?" My reply, "hey, some people leave a tip on the table and some folks need change. If you need change, you don't have to go back to the table, you can just leave it in the jar since we work on a tip pool basis." Now this "reminder" did nudge some of these folks into reality, that these servers need tips to survive, however, some remained oblivious. You can PM me if you like and I will tell you which profession I am talking about, but I don't want to disparage a whole group of people for the actions of a few unthinking folks in this small town.

The idea of "asking for a tip" has never entered my mind. The customers who overtip far outweigh the cheap ba$tards. Everytime. 10% is substandard. I find it; (10%), insulting.

Copper

Leaving NO tip would be insulting. 10% might be substandard, but it sure beats getting stiffed. How are you going to treat "substandard" tippers in your new business enterprise? Some customers feel a tip isn't required when the owner is the waitstaff. Just wondering. pb

The question never comes up with me, I include the tip when I pay the tab and simply say "you're all set" before they can ask. I think this makes for a more pleasant experience all around.

Greyghost,

I'm glad this works for you. For some reason it almost never works for me. It seems I rarely have the correct amount to do check + tip and be done with it. I would much prefer the waitstaff to say "I'll be right back with your change" which gives me the chance to say " ok " or " you're all set ". I absolutly HATE "do you need change?". I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they actually looked at what you handed them, but, most don't they just say the words automatically.

Case in point, a few weeks ago I ate at the local "diner" (a term I use sparingly for this place, but, that is another thread) My check was about $18. The only bills I had on me were (2) $50's, which dosen't normally happen, I laid the 50 on the tray with the check and the server came back and said ... you guessed it... "Do you need change?". Good Grief, a stupid da**ed question if ever there was one. She sure as HE** was not getting a $32 tip. As a matter of fact, based on the service, she would be lucky to get 15%.

As customers, we shouldn't need to worry about trying to make it more pleasant all around by being ready to have check + tip just to avoid needing change. Any place in the service business should automatically offer you your change and give you the chance to say "keep it" or not.

THE AUDACITY of some people is often beyond understanding, last night while watching tv, the phone rings, caller ID says its a new pizza shop I have yet to try. The young lady says "This is Amber at xyz pizza, we'e closing out our register and want to know if you want to add a tip on your credit card...." After a moment or 2 of startled silence I politely informed her she had the wrong number.. A few moments later theres a knock on the door... another young lady is holding a pizza, now I'm really confused (and TOTALLY sober)before I can say anything my daughter and her fiance pull in the driveway and my daughter calls out, "Is that our pizza?" They had called in the order on the way over! My confusion aside I couldn't believe the phone call.........

THE AUDACITY of some people is often beyond understanding, last night while watching tv, the phone rings, caller ID says its a new pizza shop I have yet to try. The young lady says "This is Amber at xyz pizza, we'e closing out our register and want to know if you want to add a tip on your credit card...." After a moment or 2 of startled silence I politely informed her she had the wrong number.. A few moments later theres a knock on the door... another young lady is holding a pizza, now I'm really confused (and TOTALLY sober)before I can say anything my daughter and her fiance pull in the driveway and my daughter calls out, "Is that our pizza?" They had called in the order on the way over! My confusion aside I couldn't believe the phone call.........

Years ago I used to kid my wife about how I really needed to get a cell phone so I could order apizza while driving home. I've had cell phones now for about ten years and I still haven't ordered while driving. I may just do it tonight.

Naw, a penny left on the table would be insulting, if you left nuthin, wait staff might think you just "forgot".

quote:

10% might be substandard, but it sure beats getting stiffed.

If the food was hot and right when it got to the table the customer owes 10% to the staff, if it was not, as a customer and waitstaff, I would find out why, AND MAKE IT RIGHT!. Its not normally the wait staff and THEY doesn't deserve to be stiffed. :)

quote:

How are you going to treat "substandard" tippers in your new business enterprise? Some customers feel a tip isn't required when the owner is the waitstaff. Just wondering.

If they asked for anything extra....blah blah blah, and didn't clean up after themselves, they wouldn't be served again. But you see, I can tell them to Kiss my A$$, its the glory of America.

Porkbeaks edited to say: if they acted in the way stated directly above and left a penny or nuthin, they wouldn't be served again, or at the very least be required to cough up a dang good "Tip for living". Copper Copper

Soup Nazi used to have a jar beside the register which if you made too much noise throwing the change into he would give you a dirty look...of course I never saw him do anything but give dirty looks so whatever.

asking if you need change expedites service. one point of good service is to timly serve and service your tables.returning to a table with change to find the patrons have either left, or diden't want change to begin with is wasted time and energy for anyone involved in that transaction , including the patrons. If you feel that you have been put on the spot by the question do you need change, you are probably the customer who under tips and overstays. Review the check when presented and decide what to do, just like when you get a menu...Duh!

blah, blah,blah... If you feel that you have been put on the spot by the question do you need change, you are probably the customer who under tips and overstays. Review the check when presented and decide what to do, just like when you get a menu...Duh!

I really hate it when I hear or read the expression "Duh!". It's especially irritating when used following a statement of total crapola like that quoted above. pb

asking if you need change expedites service. one point of good service is to timly serve and service your tables.returning to a table with change to find the patrons have either left, or diden't want change to begin with is wasted time and energy for anyone involved in that transaction , including the patrons. If you feel that you have been put on the spot by the question do you need change, you are probably the customer who under tips and overstays. Review the check when presented and decide what to do, just like when you get a menu...Duh!

I have to agree with Porkbeaks, "DUH"....does NOT help make your point. Beside that, whatd does "Review the check when presented and decide what to do, just like when you get a menu" mean? Of course you Review the chek AND make a Decision. The issue is once you make the decision and give them the money they should NOT ask "Do you need change?". See my previous post earlier on this page, my check was $18 and I laid a $50 on the tray, why on earth would ANYONE ask "Do you need change?" Jeezzz, how may 178% tips do you expect in a day?

Reading this thread got me thinking as to what my response will be the next time that happens to me. When asked if I "need change back" I plan on tilting my head, looking them directly in the eye and with my best quizzical look say "Well, certainly"! Perhaps the shock factor will give them pause so the next diner needn't suffer that rudeness.

Reading this thread got me thinking as to what my response will be the next time that happens to me. When asked if I "need change back" I plan on tilting my head, looking them directly in the eye and with my best quizzical look say "Well, certainly"! Perhaps the shock factor will give them pause so the next diner needn't suffer that rudeness.

You know, it's pretty easy to tell when you are being played for a tip, there are some unique tell-tale signs.

1) Wife is ignored while husband will be referred to as honey, dear, sweetie or some other term of endearment.

2) The waitress gives you extra portions that you are never charged for.

3) Ahhh, the gentle touch of the hand to a shoulder.

4) And of course the one that we are discussing here, "Do you need change?" This is my particular favorite that I handle one of two ways...

1) Heck yes dear, give me my chane...my wife will take care of the tip! This works extremely well if you are in the company of your wife or other female...doesn't work with a group of guys or if you are dining alone.

2) If you are dining alone and asked "Do you need change," a good reply is "do you need a tip?" The shock will leave her flabargasted for a few seconds while you sort your coins and leave the correct tip.

BUT on the other side of this discussion, we have a family that comes into our restaurant, we affectionaly refer to them as the Adams Family. It's a mother and two teenage sons, the mother is fry short of an order and the two sons think they are God's gift to everyone one of our waitresses, doesn't matter if they are 16 or 61. While they are here they will run a waitress to death, constant refills, extra salad dressings, more this and that and expect to be entertained by the waitress at all times. I really have done my best to run them off, but they keep coming back like a bad dream. They'll easily run up a bill of $20 to $30...and never, never once has a tip been left.

Pacman, Are you trying to bring common sense to this? I don't mind the question "do you need change?" when I have put down an amount which is within reason for being the tab plus a descent tip.

If I put down what you did then the waitstaff just cut their tip by 10% w/ such a stupid question. I've actually had the question asked to me when using a credit card...they expect me to give them the credit card?

I don't like the "do you need change" bit myself but I know a lot of people that are servers. Trust me 90% of them don't make squat! Take an establisment that has to raise there prices due to sharp rent hikes, Suppliers charges. Most customers are miffed for a while and hold back the "TIP" remembe that servers only make a few dollars and hour and have a hard time getting the hours they need to get the amount of tips they need to stay off wellfare. Its a fact of life.

quote:

Originally posted by Al-The Mayor-Bowen

RE- Auction Buyers Premium-- Here in the rural heartland, a few of the dealers have posted notices of Buyers premiums on their auctions...but the crowd at these events has been much smaller than at the usual auction. Buyers bitch about paying Sales Tax (especially since Ebay sales have soared) much less a fee for buying from a dealer. A couple of guys tried to charge a registration fee to obtain a bid number...This died a quick death also.

I am a believer in " a Tip is a reward for good service" and don't want to have that legislated into the general fee for whatever I have purchased.

After reading all the posts I am in favor of putting a sign on the door, menu "NO TIPPING"! 15% has been added to your bill. “If you have a problem, see the management”. The person at the register should have a bull horn and announce "WE HAVE A CHEEP BA$TARD LEAVING THE BUILDING". If someone complains.