Atheist Activist Group Urges Trump to Keep God Out of Inauguration

WASHINGTON — A prominent professing atheist organization is asking President-elect Donald Trump to keep God out of this month’s inaugural ceremony by removing the Bible, prayer and the “so help me God” phrase of the oath from the event.

The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF) recently sent a letter to Trump to urge him to change his plans for the inauguration. It asserted that the Constitution is secular in nature and “contains no directive to swear to a deity or to place a hand on a Bible.”

“The ‘so help me God’ tradition violates the spirit of our secular Constitution in the very act of promising to uphold it. The Constitution prohibits rather than mandates religious oaths,” the group asserted.

“In its altered, religious form, the oath has become a symbol of the disregard many in our nation have shown for our secular constitutional principles. Reciting the presidential oath in its original form would be an important symbolic step toward divorcing American politics from religion,” it said.

FFRF also asked Trump to pull the prayer portion of the event, which, as previously reported, will feature an ecumenical assortment, including Franklin Graham, prosperity preacher Paula White and others. Some spiritual leaders will read from Scripture at the inauguration, such as prominent Catholic Cardinal Timothy Dolan and Jewish Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

“If you wished to hold a private religious convocation to personally celebrate your inauguration with religion, of course we would have no objection based on the Establishment Clause,” the letter, signed by Co-Presidents Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor, outlined. “But we and our membership do most strenuously object to turning a secular event into a religious circus.”

“You were not elected pastor in chief, but president of all the people,” they said, repeating a phrase many Christians often contended during Trump’s campaign. “Prayer hosted by the government should not be part of taking a ceremony about pledging fealty to a secular Constitution.”

The organization likewise asked Trump not to take his oath on the Bible, but instead on the Constitution.

It is not yet known whether or not Trump plans to respond. As previously reported, FFRF made a similar request in 2012 for Barack Obama’s second inauguration ceremony, but it was disregarded.

In his first inaugural address in 1789, the nation’s first president, George Washington, declared, “[I]t would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States, a government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to His charge.”

“[W]e ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained,” he proclaimed.

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Your question does not make sense. The scientific method starts with observations and you cannot observe something that is nonexistent, fake, made up, and imaginary.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

If I were you, I’d be shaking in my boots after that statement. You WILL believe in God when you are standing before HIM and HE says depart from me I know you not! Gonna be a very warm climate where you’re going. Even Satan believes in God. Although he tells YOU that God doesn’t exist. He believes!

Jason

“Satan believes in god.” The tooth fairy believes in Santa Claus. Vampires believe in werewolves. I can do it too. (Insert imaginary here) believes in (Insert imaginary here). “He says depart from me I know you not!” What do you mean? I thought he was omniscient. Oh and I don’t believe in an afterlife soooo…. no shaking in my boots and no standing or walking around after I’m dead.

He doesn’t exist. We know this because for something to exist, there must be evidence for it.

Amos Moses

if you ignore the evidence or if you are looking for the evidence in the wrong place …… you will not find it and your observations are in error ….. you are in error ………. you have no “facts” ……….

Jason

No ignoring required. Most (if not all) “evidence” for a creator can be and has been explained through natural methods. Observations are not in error. Are you talking about the next step in the scientific method: hypothesis? It can be in error but that is why we test and analyze and adjust our hypothesis if needed.

Amos Moses

Well if a creator works by natural methods … what would you expect to find …… and again ……. absence of evidence is not evidence of absence …. your observations are in error as they exclude God as part of the evidence …… you choose to be willfully blind to part of the evidence and it alters your observations …… your observations are in error …… looking for evidence in the kitchen because the light is better when the evidence is in the living room does not mean the evidence does not exist …… it means you are not looking at the evidence that is there because you choose to look else where ……

Jason

“you choose to be willfully blind to part of the evidence and it alters your observations.” That’s not how observations work. It’s step one in the scientific method. Someone finds something that they do not understand (observation), then they come up with an idea (hypothesis) and test it. I don’t understand his blind thing you are talking about.

Amos Moses

observations work when you acknowledge all that is there …… if you A Priori deny that part of the evidence is there …… your observations are in error ………

Amos Moses

no ….. you ignore evidence because it does not fit the narrative you want to believe …….. we all have the exact same evidence …… and again ….. if the creator works by “natural methods” …… then that is exactly what you would expect to find …. so your only response is to eliminate God from the evidence …… you ignore it …….. you are in error ….. your observations are biased ………….

Jason

Nope. Still no ignoring. Science does not have a biased narrative. We simply study and learn the observations that we find… and replicate results. If the creator works through explainable natural methods then why do we need a creator to explain them. I don’t need to include god’s magic to explain what happens when you toast bread.
“We all have the same evidence,” “your observations are biased.” What is the difference between evidence and observations? I believe we all have the same observations… which cannot be biased. We all can see the rock layers in the Grand Canyon, hypothesize, test and validate… but, as you know, there are a few who… ignore 🙂 the finds because it goes against their world view.

Amos Moses

“Science does not have a biased narrative.” … correct …. the OBSERVER does ……….

Jason

Agreed. The observer can be… misguided. The easiest way to become misguided is to assume conclusions before experiments and data analysis. Hypothesis’ (plural?) must be adjusted and retested if the data points in that direction.

MarkSebree

Also, that is why science is peer-reviewed. It significantly reduces the observer bias. And, as far as Amos’s position, HIS observer bias is showing. IF objective evidence of a deity existed, the same educated conclusion would be reached no matter what the beliefs of the evaluators were. That means that a Shamanist, Atheist, Shinto, Buddhist, Hindu, and people of every other religion and non-religion would reach the same conclusion based on the same evidence and experiments.

Jason

Exactly

Marjorie Lee Peterson

I know that Trump was NOT a shoo in for the election. We all thought Hillary’s fixing the election would work for her and our country would go down the tubes. But a LOT of Americans started praying to God. Praying for a second chance for our country to stay the America the majority of us loved and were proud of, BEFORE Obama! God answered our prayers and he will be our President as of Jan. 20th. God put a Christian back in the White House to save this country! Maybe we can turn it around again and bad won’t be touted as good and good made to be evil or dumb. Maybe we’ll be able to be proud of being American again! That’s why we voted for Trump! We want to UN-DO all the horrid stuff Obama did. And President Trump will get rid of most of it!

Amos Moses

Look …. i am all for prayer ….. but prayer is not to convince God of our worth and so He should grant our wish ….. He is not the genie in the lamp who intervenes and bends to our wishes ………. it is to bring our thoughts in line with His thoughts …. to change us not to change Him ….. and calling DJT a christian is a stretch ………. pride is not a goal that we as christians should seek to attain ………..

reality based on what ………… absence of evidence is not evidence of absence …… based on what ….

TheKingOfRhye

Absence of evidence may not be evidence of absence, but it seems like a pretty good reason to not believe in something, if you ask me.

That’s the argument often used for the existence of aliens, actually. Sure, it’s a good argument to say that you can’t say there are NO aliens anywhere, but until actual evidence is found, you can’t say we know there are aliens. That’s what I keep trying to illustrate here, actually…that’s there’s a difference between denial and disbelief.

Amos Moses

if you do not believe in things just because you have not found them …… then that is not science or theology ………. it is just personal belief based on nothing …… all it proves is that you have not looked in enough and the correct places ……..

MarkSebree

If you believe things even though there is no objective evidence to support them, and no logical and reasonable reason to believe that those things exist, then that is also personal belief and probably observer bias. All it proves is that you believe in things that are not there and probably do not exist.

Amos Moses

all the objective evidence points to God and a creation ……. and supports it …… and the only way to not know that is to lie to ones self about that reality ….. and ignore the evidence …………

MarkSebree

Nobody has ever presented any objective evidence that any deity exists. You are letting your beliefs cloud your reason. It takes no lies to one self to not see any what is not there. And you cannot ignore something that does not exist.

Amos Moses

Nope …. that is what you are doing …….. you believe God does not exist ….. you want, you need for God to not exist and so you dismiss Him ………… so yes, you lie to yourself about it …..

MarkSebree

Sorry, but I am not lying to myself. I leave that to people like you.

If you have objective evidence that your deity exists, then present it, clearly and completely. Saying “look around you” is NOT proving any evidence to support your claims. Appeals to ignorance also do not support your claims. Just because we do not know something does not mean that your deity is responsible. It simply means that we do not yet know the answer.

Amos Moses

you suppress the truth of Gods existence ………… the objective evidence is every thing your eye sees ….. including your eye …… and the only way for you to deny that is to suppress the truth ….

MarkSebree

I am not trying to suppress anything. You have not presented any objective evidence supporting your assertion. My eyes are a product of evolution, and did not need any deity to be created. That goes for everything else that I see. There is no need for a deity in any of this. I am denying your assertions because you cannot support them.

Amos Moses

nope …… you are very good at suppressing the truth of God that you do it automatically as a knee-jerk reaction …. you do not realize you do it ……. but you do ………….

MarkSebree

I am quite familiar with what I do. You have not presented any evidence that any deity exists, and therefore you have not presented any “truth of god”. I am challenging you to present OBJECTIVE evidence to support your claims, and then you need to actually support you assertions with reasoned and logical arguments, as in why your supposed evidence is proof that any deity exists, for example. You cannot make vague, subjective claims like “everything is evidence that [your] deity exists” because that is not actually presenting any evidence whatsoever, and it is certainly not objective evidence.

Amos Moses

you suppress the truth ………. you may not realize it ….. but you do it ….. and that also is obvious …………

MarkSebree

Sorry, but despite your delusions, I am not nor can I suppress the truth. You just do not want to face the truth. That is why you cannot write anything that is on subject, why you continually try to divert the discussion away from your deficient position, and why you cannot support your assertions with objective evidence and reasoned arguments.

Amos Moses

i cannot change the evidence to suit you ….. the evidence is everything you see ……… it is everything we all see ….. that is the evidence …………

MarkSebree

I am not asking you to change any evidence. I am asking you to explicitly present your evidence. You have not done so. NOTHING that I see requires any deity. I have asked you to be explicit in your presentation of your evidence that any deity exists. You have not been able to present anything. Nothing I see is evidence of any deity since nearly everything can be explained without invoking a deity.

Amos Moses

the evidence is everything you see …… it all speaks to the evidence of God and His creation …… and without it all you are left with is “coincidence theories” ……… things just happened because they did …………

MarkSebree

Basically, science states that “we do not know”. All you have is your subjective beliefs and appeals to ignorance, i.e. since we do not know the answer, your deity did it. That is also called a “cop-out”. It is subjective and an example of loose and sloppy thinking. It bespeaks of ignorance and no desire to learn anything about the subjects involved.

Just because we do not know the cause of something does not mean that your deity had any hand (or tentacle) in it.

Amos Moses

Basically, science states that “we do not know”.”

no …. there is no difference in that statement as the evidence is abundant and the only way for you to “not know” is to lie about the evidence ……… you lie about the evidence to suppress the truth ………… A Priori ………..

MarkSebree

You are still showing your ignorance. You have not presented any actual objective evidence that any deity exists. You have relied on appeals to ignorance, obvious bias, and a display of lack of knowledge of what words say or mean. You have not made any theoretical deductions. All you have done is basically state that you are right because you say that you are right. That is not evidence, and there is no logical reason to believe that you are right when you cannot defend your claims intelligently.

I cannot lie about evidence when you have not actually presented any objective evidence to be examined, nor have you presented any reasoned arguments to support your position. And I cannot stop you from presenting any evidence to support your claims, which means that I cannot “suppress” any evidence. However, what you can and do do is to refuse to provide any evidence and lie about it.

Amos Moses

“science” is the one looking for the Higgs Boson or “God particle” …… as if that would prove or disprove anything …..

do you have perfect knowledge of everything …… ever …………….

MarkSebree

Actually, the Higgs Boson was found over three years ago. (Specifically, Dec 10, 2013) And just because you do not understand Quantum Physics does not mean that nothing was proven. In fact, it completed the Standard Model of Quantum Physics. Here is more information about it, look up “Higgs Boson” in Wikipedia.

I never claimed to have perfect knowledge of anything. However, I also do not claim that some fictional, mythical being is responsible for things that I do not know or understand. Doing so is a logical fallacy known as an appeal to ignorance, which seems to be your favorite logical fallacy.

Amos Moses

sure …. and it does nothing to prove or disprove God ….. and they actually call it the GD particle ……

“I never claimed to have perfect knowledge of anything.”

good, then we agree about that …… the only way for anyone to make any statement about the absolute nonexistence of God is to have that level of knowledge …… and you just stated you do not …… so much for your claim …………

MarkSebree

Finding the Higgs Boson was never expected to provide evidence that any deity existed. Physicists did not call the Higgs Boson “the god particle”, and from what I have read, they do not even like that nickname. It was mainstream media that did that, mostly in an effort to sell newspapers, books, and magazines.

However, unlike you, I am also not claiming that something exists for which there is no objective evidence of and no logical reason so suppose exists. What’s more, unlike you, I am not in the habit of making logical fallacies in my writing. It is logically impossible to prove something does not exist, except in rare instances where the entire solution space can be examined. That is why it is the person who is making the affirmative assertion that is responsible for supporting that assertion.

You have claimed repeatedly that your deity exists. Therefore, you are the one responsible for presenting and defending the objective evidence to support your claim. You have failed to do so. Claiming “everything is evidence that [your] deity exists” does not actually support your claims because all someone else has to do is to state that the existence of stuff is not evidence to support your claims. That is why you have to DEFEND your claims, which you have also not been able to do. You prefer to rely on the logical fallacies of shifting the burden of proof, appeal to ignorance, a subcategory of an argument of incredulity called the divine fallacy, as well as others.

Amos Moses

“However, unlike you, I am also not claiming that something exists for which there is no objective evidence”

right ………. you are claiming a thing does not exist because you have no evidence when you cannot make such a claim without perfect knowledge ……. which you stated you do not possess ….. it is like saying “this pen is the only one like it in the entire universe” …… and you have no ability to determine that as you cannot leave this planet ……

no …. the evidence of the existence of God is abundant …… you suppress the truth of that evidence ….. and you lie …….

MarkSebree

And you cannot even understand what I write, as you demonstrate again. I stated that there is no reason to believe that something exists when there is no objective evidence that it exists, and no reasoned, logical argument to believe that it exists. You cannot even post the complete sentence that I wrote because you cannot seem to face reality.

If the evidence of the existence of any deity is abundant, then present the objective evidence to support your claim. I cannot suppress the truth about anything. You ascribe to me power I do not have. You have not presented any objective evidence to support your claims, and you are relying on appeals to absurdity now. You appear to be claiming that since I do not have perfect knowledge of the universe, I cannot deny your absurd claim that your deity exists.

However, that is not how this works. The default assumption is that something does not exist, and the person making the affirmative assertion that it does is responsible for supporting that claim. That is the basis for any argument of this type. You are the one that has made the affirmative assertion that your deity exists, therefore you are the one that is responsible for supporting your claims. You have claimed that there is evidence of your deity existing, soI challenged you to support your claim with objective evidence and/or reasoned, logical arguments. You have refused to provide any objective evidence whatsoever to support your claims. Instead, your entire defense can be boiled down to “its true because I say it is true”, and that is not enough reason to accept your claims.

And unlike you, I do not lie.

Jason Todd

Yes, you do, and Amos doesn’t have to prove anything to you.

Death will come for all of us one day. When it does, you better hope you’re right.

TheKingOfRhye

If what you are saying is true, it would be “personal belief based on” my not having found it. Which seems like a good reason to not believe something, if you ask me. Do you expect me to believe something I have not found, after all?

Amos Moses

i expect no blanket, broadbrush statements as to their non-existence from something not found but obvious to everyone else ……… dont want to look …. fine by me …… but it seems all those who do not see it have a need for the rest of the world to not see it ……… to even deny it …..

TheKingOfRhye

Have I made any “blanket, broadbrush statements”?

Like I said a while back, there’s a big difference between denial and disbelief. Do you really not see that?

Amos Moses

“Have I made any “blanket, broadbrush statements”?”

i did not say you said it …… but many of your fellows here do ………. i see no difference between the two ………..

What evidence? If you assume a god exists a priori, then you’re doing it wrong.

Tangent002

I agree. Trump is more likely to allow that British chick to sing ‘Strange Fruit’ at the inauguration than he is to exclude mention of God in the oath and acceptance speech.

antifasciste

“Strange Fruit”? I think Billie Holiday is dead. ;-). But, you have a valid point.

Tangent002

I’m referring to Rebecca Ferguson’s offer to sing at the inauguration. But I agree, the song belongs to Lady Day.

antifasciste

I was previously unaware of Rebecca Ferguson, does she cover any Stooges or MC5 songs? A soulful rendition of Search & Destroy or Kick Out the Jams might make that inauguration fiasco tolerable

Penny

Do you believe Hell doesn’t exist? Let me kinda explain your Wrong, Jesus SAID HELL Exist, and if you somehow don’t believe in a HELL. Well I will really pray that you will seek and ask God to have mercy on your soul, ask for forgiveness. Otherwise, it’s no laughing,joke and you will regret making this comment

Belief and Knowledge are not the same thing. Apparently some folks require the threat of a horrible afterlife to convince them to love their neighbors as themselves??? Just sayin..

TheKingOfRhye

Hey, there is a Hell, and it even freezes over from time to time…..it’s probably frozen over right now, with how cold it is…..

(that’s Hell, Michigan, by the way)

MarkSebree

There is also Hell, Norway.

And remember, according to Dante, the Ninth Circle of Hell is always frozen over.

TheKingOfRhye

I’ve never actually been to Hell, MI….I should go there once, if only so I could say I’ve been to Hell and back. Or maybe I’ll find a handbasket and go there in it…..while I try to find at what speed bats leave there.

MarkSebree

There should be an asphalt/construction company based there call “Good Intentions”. The it could be said that the roads to Hell are paved by Good Intentions. 🙂

Gizmo

Well, the first president put his hand on the Bible (which was in the script) then afterward said “So help me God” and kissed the Bible (which wasn’t in the script).

I’m with George.

raySoller

There’s no evidence that GW said SHMG at his first inauguration. Swearing an oath on the Bible & kissing it was definitely in the script according to New York State legislation labeled “The Usual Mode of Administering an Oath.”

raySoller

When it came to GW’s 2nd inauguration, there was no Bible, and no SHMG codicil. Presidents Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, & J.Q. Adams followed suit. GW 2nd inaugural address is “unpresidented” because it made no reference to deity.

Guzzman

It is almost certainly false that George Washington added words to the official Constitutional oath that he himself played a role in constructing. If you get a chance, google “So Help Me God”: A George Washington Myth that Should Be Discarded” (History News Network).

DoorknobHead

SPREAD ‘EM, CREEP
Trump may be the first president to spread open wide the pages and to put his hand on the crease in a sexually suggestive manner, moan softly, and say how much he loves to get intimate with the bible — and that it is okay for him to do this because he is a star and they let him do anything.

Amos Moses

more from the crybullies ………….

Penny

Those crybullies know Trump is an Atheist, he never once mentions the name Jesus in his speeches, the person who supposedly brought him to Jesus was a Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing, Paula White, one of Satan’s Minsters that deny’s Jesus is God’s only begotten,Son, lives a Lavish lifestyle, promotes it which is Contrary to God’s Word.Paula,White claims we can all be” LITTLE GODS”

Melania Trump was an, Atheist before this election, her whole family, her Mother and Father are Atheist, proud being Atheist. Trump married an Atheist for a reason, his whole Christian belief is fake, he never once said I believe Jesus is GOD, is My Lord and Savior.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

I’ve heard him say it. Several times in fact. If I hadn’t believed he was a Christian, I’d have voted for him because Hillary would have been a real disaster, but it would have been a lot harder for me. I’ve been on cloud 9 ever since the election! We finally have a President who actually intends to KEEP his promises. He’s already working on that wall!

The Skeptical Chymist

Ha ha ha! You think he intends to keep his promises? So naive! There are plenty just like you. They worked as subcontractors on his buildings and got stiffed because they thought he’d keep his promises. They paid big bucks for an education at “Trump University” because they believed he’d keep his promises. Sure, keep on believing as long as you can. That’s how the con man recognizes a good mark. It’s the person who keeps on believing even when he’s being conned.

TheKingOfRhye

What President was able to keep all his promises, whether he intended to or not?

lonbo

Penny, it is not necessary to capitalize the word atheist. It is a common noun.

raySoller

GW did not add SHMG to his oath. Both swearing on the Bible & kissing it was in the script according to New York State legislation. The NYS oath was a religious test oath.

Craig Reynolds

To which comment it must be added that he didn’t write the damn book. In fact, he’s never written anything of measure beyond 140 characters.

jamesrwilliams

If Trump does not swear in under God and does not place his hand on the Bible, all in obedience to the FFRF, that would be preferring one religion over another; atheism over Christianity. Therefore, since tradition has established the Christian preference, going with it is the best option since it is the religion he, himself, prefers to believe in.

Penny

History Tells us, placing your hand on the Bible and swearing under God does not make you Christian, Bush and Obama did the exact same thing and look where we are now. Wolves in sheep clothing have no problem doing so to deceive the public.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

Bush is a Christian!

MarkSebree

As is Obama, despite the denial of that fact by the Right Wing.

lonbo

Being religious is neither an asset or a virtue. I would like to think that President Obama is a closet atheist and only feigns religious faith for political expediency.

MarkSebree

Agreed. However, I am simply going by the statements of the person that would know about his religious beliefs the best, Barrack Obama.

TheKingOfRhye

First of all, atheism is not a religion. Not being able to swear to God wouldn’t make one an atheist, or be some sort of atheist act. And I don’t understand your last sentence. If swearing on the holy book of whatever religion he believes is the way to go, then what does it matter what the ‘traditional preference’ is?

I’m an atheist, but I have no problem with people swearing on whatever god or holy book they believe in…..or none if they’re a non-believer, of course.

lonbo

Atheism is a religion like not stamp collecting is a hobby or baldness is a hair color or your comment is intelligent. Clearly, you want to believe that Donald Trump is a Christian. Donald Trump wants you to believe that he is a Christian because patronizing gullible Christians is how he got elected. You all will soon enough be whistling another tune.

Samuel F Waddell

FFRF will not admit that it is unconstitutional because the constitution upholds the freedom of religion and not freedom from religion. The constitution just prohibited the establishment of a state church, of any certain denomination, and also insured the free exercise of religion, which the FFRF is trying ridiculously to stop.

Pam Crittenden

There are at least 9 other religious texts/books…like the Torah, or the Quran, or the Buddhist Sutras. Would you be okay if he chose to swear on one of those?

Samuel F Waddell

Well first of all the Torah is part of the Bible. It is called the Old Testament. Second the Quran teaches to spread it’s religion by the sword in 109 verses, I have read it and don’t believe it, Jesus warned of false prophets coming after Him, He said by their fruit you shall know them, and we have all seen the violence associated with it’s being taken literally. When it comes to Buddhism, God is not really the subject as Buddha spoke of God very little, so since our nation was built on laws and principles of truth in the Christian Bible, I believe that he should put his hand on the Bible, as he plans to do, as all previous Presidents have done as far as I know. Whether he believes it or follows it is personally between him and God. Freedom from religion is not constitutional and nor is forcing anyone to be any certain religion, nor is attempting to stop or restrict anyone from practicing their faith publicly unless it is violent and breaks other laws. That is really the historical interpretation of the First Amendment.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

If that was his faith, yes. He’s Christian, so I expect him to take his oath on the Bible.

james blue

Do you recall the outrage over Keith Ellison using a Koran for the photo-op reenactment swearing into the senate?

Samuel F Waddell

America is traditionally a Christian nation, even though we allow others faiths to be practiced peacefully. Even our enemies have known and acknowledged this so President Trump acknowledges this and will put his hand on the Bible as all other presidents have done. Whether he follows the teaching in it is between himself and God.

lonbo

Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901. Both John Quincy Adams and Franklin Pierce swore on a book of law, with the intention that they were swearing on the constitution. Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in on a Roman Catholic missal on Air Force One.

MarkSebree

What D. tRump should swear on is a copy of “The Art of the Deal”.

Samuel F Waddell

Maybe so but we must understand that all of our original laws come from the Bible. To divorce ourselves from it is to divorce ourselves from our original laws. Laws such as you shall not kill, or you shall not steal etc. The Founding Father’s never intended that we be an atheistic society, where God is never mentioned or the Bible can not be quoted but only that there would be no state Church, as in Europe, that got too deeply entangled in the government and corrupted that one could not tell one from the other. They never intended to stop Christians from practicing their faith publicly or mentioning it while in public office. I believe a through study of American history proves this.

lonbo

So, Samuel, do you really think that no one had any idea that murder and stealing were wrong until Jesus and Santa were invented?

Samuel F Waddell

My ancestors on my mothers side were VIKINGS and my father’s Celts. I really don’t believe that they, nor many others, thought one moment about killing their enemies or strangers, sometimes neighbors and family, and stealing from them because that was the only world they knew until they heard and were taught about CHRIST.

TheKingOfRhye

So why is it that most of the Ten Commandments would be unconstitutional if they were laws?

“The Founding Father’s never intended that we be an atheistic society, where God is never mentioned or the Bible can not be quoted”

Most atheists don’t want that. We are a secular country, not an atheistic one. There’s a difference.

lonbo

Our original laws are encapsulated in The Constitution of the United States of America and its amendments. It is a stretch to assert that anything in our founding document comes from the Bible. In addition our Constitution declares itself to be the supreme law of our nation.

Wandell Carter

Obama reportedly used the Koran, not our Christian Bible.

Samuel F Waddell

He probably did but I don’t know. I don’t doubt that, he has proven time and time again to be more of a Muslim than a Christian and we have all seen the results of that.

lonbo

President Barack Obama was sworn in with his hand on two bibles. President elect Donald Trump reportedly will be sworn in with one tiny hand on his book, “The Art of the Deal” and the other tiny hand outstretched in the direction of the nearest pussy.

Samuel F Waddell

Well Donald Trump will be our President for the next four years at least and we all need to pray for him as many prayed for President Obama, forgetting party politics and being good Americans.

lonbo

I don’t need to pray for Donald Trump. I never prayed for President Obama. I never pray. Does your god not know what to do until he hears from you? That would make you the omniscient one.

Samuel F Waddell

“Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened to you.” Matthew 7:7. We need prayer not God. Our relationship with Him and our faith grows as we see prayer answered. Of course He can say, yes, no or wait depending on what He knows is best for us.

So does God have a plan or doesn’t he? “Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened to you” doesn’t sound like a plan. It sounds like a god who changes his plan whenever anyone asks him to.

Samuel F Waddell

God’s Word reveals His will which men reject because God allows free will. Jesus said in the Lord’s prayer. Pray: ‘ Your kingdom come and Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” When Adam sinned he really choose satan over God’s will. He fell and he and his ancestors, us, were separated from God because God gave him a free will choice. JESUS’ sacrifice on the cross brings all who repent and believe back to God so that is why we ask and pray that His will be done and pray that His will happens in others lives and different situations.

So, i take it that when a Christian dies and goes to heaven, does he lose his free will or is he still capable of sin?

lonbo

Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer. I’ll tell you what Sam, simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away. Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology right here and devote my life to kissing God’s invisible ass. If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing mine.

Samuel F Waddell

“God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.” James 4:6. This why in Africa and many other places there are great miracles happening. They happen here in the USA as well. My young cousin was healed of two types of cancer while he was in his teens. The doctor said that his case looked very bad and didn’t give him much hope. His church and family was praying and one night in the hospital a person, he called an angel, came in a toughed him and he was healed instantly. That is around four or fives years ago and now he is a student at Auburn University. You cannot expect CHRIST to answer your prayers until you humble yourself. Your words show an arrogant rejection and un-belief towards God.

lonbo

Cancer comes and cancer goes, often without notice. Miracles, by definition don’t happen and never did. If miracles happened, they wouldn’t be miracles. They’d just be stuff that happens, albeit rarely.

Samuel F Waddell

Ask a Doctor. It don’t happen that way. A test shows a person has two types of cancer spreading rapidly though their body and the treatment is not slowing or stopping it. That was the situation. with my young cousin ONLY A MIRACLE FROM JESUS CHRIST can heal it. Even many Doctors admit that PRAYER is a great part of healing in many cases. I have been a missionary in Africa and I can assure that GREAT MIRACLES do still happen in CHRIST’S name even some dead have been raised. God gives His grace to the humble and those who believe but He resists the proud.

lonbo

Spontaneous remission of cancer (SR) is defined as a complete or partial, temporary or permanent disappearance of all or at least some relevant parameters of a soundly diagnosed malignant disease without any medical treatment or with treatment that is considered inadequate to produce the resulting regression. It happens. Whether you can credit nature, your particular god, or a lucky rabbit’s foot is up to you.
it is presumptuous of you to add qualifiers to what your Jesus reportedly said about the power of prayer. Either his words are truth or they are lies.
BTW, I am a former believer and a former pastor. Your Jesus is a myth and miracles most certainly do not happen. Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t make it a miracle. Your cousin was very lucky but his cancer can reoccur at any time. Like all of us, he should be seeing his doctor regularly. Cheers!

Samuel F Waddell

What about the angel, the person, my cousin had never seen before, entering his room in the middle of the night, when she touched her head to his and prayed silently the raised back, he felt the cancer leave his body and from that point he was completely healed. The charts from the week before showed the cancer plainly the charts after that, no cancer. That wasn’t an SR that was a ( MHJC) a miraculous healing through JESUS CHRIST. Look I am a missionary evangelist and have been a pastor and have known unbelieving pastors who only entered the ministry for money or others who got caught and entangled in sin, fell and left the ministry. I also know The LORD and have had too many experiences in His Holy presence to be an unbeliever and many other undeniable proofs. As far as earthly un-belief is concerned, eternity is a long time to be wrong.

lonbo

Sam, “there no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world.Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”
I am very happy for your cousin and your family that his cancer is gone. My wife just this week received her last in a year of chemo treatments and she too is doing well.
As for me, I certainly did not enter the ministry for the money. I doubt anyone does. Neither did I leave the ministry due to entanglement in “sin” which is a meaningless theological term for one who no longer believes in the existence of a god to be separated from.
Finally, as you are well aware, there are thousands of gods who thrive in the imaginations of believers. Many, if not most of these gods, including yours, are portrayed as jealous and vindictive. What if you’re wrong. When you think about it, I have only discarded one more god than you. Life is too short and precious to squander on myth and superstition. Peace my brother.

Samuel F Waddell

JESUS changed my life and when He filled me with the Holy Spirit filled, after I prayed asking for the power to be a witness to my lost friends, there are no human words to express what happened. I am a secure believer and will be one forever! Sorry for your loss of faith.

lonbo

Sam, the something that changed your life was you, and the power of your delusions. I didn’t lose my faith. I intentionally discarded it as worthless. It is the best decision anyone can make. I’m sorry you’re throwing your life away perpetuating a fraud.

Samuel F Waddell

There is really no man who can, honestly, say that there is no God. He can only say that he doesn’t know or that he himself has not yet experience God. To say there is no God is making an absolute statement by a person who does not believe in absolutes.

lonbo

It logically follows that is is even more preposterous for any person to assert that absolutely no gods exist but his own personal favorite god. Just because you, Sam, have not experienced the thousands of gods believed in through history and before history around our little planet does not mean that any or all of those gods are any more or less real than yours.

Samuel F Waddell

I don’t doubt smaller spiritual beings, which many have worshipped. I have experienced the god of this fallen world’s system, Satan or Lucifer, or more than likely his demonic influence before and after I was born again in Christ. Very different before than after. Before in drugs and sin etc. I experience the presence of evil at times but after I experienced the temptation and evil attack, which Christ empowered me to overcome, in time, and prayerfully to stay there.

lonbo

I take it that by “smaller spiritual beings” you don’t mean gods. You mean “smaller spiritual beings” created by your “God.” Am i correct in understanding that you deny the existence of any other Gods?

Samuel F Waddell

Yes, but not by my God but by The God. It is true that I am His and in a sense He is mine, as it involves love, but not mine to create, controlled or manipulated.

lonbo

So, clearly, you have, thoughtlessly dismissed any possibility of the existence of any and all other gods, whose followers would testify that their lives had been changed by their gods, who would claim that “there are no humans words to express what happened” to them. Your “charismatic” experience and “miracles” are common to believers in all other religions. Similar experiences are not attributable to any gods. The spiritual phenomena all plays out in your brain. Your testimony of the reality of your god to the exclusion of all other imagined gods is not credible. You needn’t even ponder the question “what if you’re wrong?”
You are just as mistaken as are the followers of any and all other gods. No person can honestly and confidently claim otherwise.

Samuel F Waddell

No not thoughtlessly but, through guided experience from the Holy Spirit, I am a missionary, been all over the world and have seen much, I have decided to follow JESUS. It seems to me that you have rejected CHRIST so why do you speak to me of rejecting other gods when you reject JESUS CHRIST?

lonbo

So your God knows best but you’re going to offer he some suggestions anyway? Does your God need your prayerful concurrence before he can do what he knows is best?

Craig Reynolds

“[Obama] has proven time and time again to be more of a Muslim than a Christian…” Examples?
“we must understand that all of our original laws come from the Bible” How do we get the framework for a representative democracy as outlined by our Constitution – the supreme law of the land – out of a book whose central character dictates all action?

lonbo

So being a Christian is somehow superior to being a Christian? I think there are about 1.6 billion Muslims who would sincerely disagree.

lonbo

The United States of America is a constitutionally secular nation.

NCOriolesFan

Just because Trump may pray to a Christian god does NOT violate any so-called fantasy church-state separation. This is HIS inauguration, not the FFRF’s.

james blue

Freedom of religion means you can have religion or not have it. The constitution protects both freedom of and from. You cannot reasonably expect to never have someone try to preach to you, but you are not forced to listen.

You cannot force someone to live by your faith- that’s the freedom from
There is a line, but you cannot stop someone living by their faith-that’s the freedom of.

Samuel F Waddell

True. You have freedom to believe or not to believe and that is our American freedom. The situation now is that some atheists are trying to force society to have no mention of God, or in other words force semi-atheist secularism upon society, I will use that term, but that is an encroachment upon believers who have the freedom, in their lives and business to practice and even proclaim their faith peacefully. Christians only want the right to witness, which is a command of Christ, not to force. No one can be forced to believe; it must be a choice of their own will. It seems that some radical atheists would like to stop or force all the mention of God, especially the Christian Biblical God, out of the public domain but that is going beyond of what Christians do, on the other hand, and is attempting to stop people’s freedom to practice their faith, peacefully and publicly. This is the problem and it seems very strange that a person who believes there is no God would try so hard to fight against Someone they believe doesn’t exist.

james blue

Do you not see the same thing in Christians who want to open public government meetings with Christian prayer or put up ten commandment monuments outside government buildings?

Nobody is trying to stop Christians from witnessing, they are trying to stop the use of government in that witnessing.
Other than debating if there is a God I’ve not seen any Atheist try to ban praying or witnessing on a public street or place a religious monument on private land and It’s been my experience that more often than not the Christians who want to put Christian displays on public land would rather have no displays than allow non Christian displays. The same goes with prayer to open public meetings.

Atheists are not fighting against God, they are fighting against people who do believe in God imposing their religion on them.

Samuel F Waddell

You must see the hypocrisy in trying to stop Christians, who are working in government, from ever mentioning God or praying because certain atheists are trying to force atheism upon the government and the public when they are excluding Christianity or the peaceful expression of the belief in God. Atheism is a belief or a faithless faith so to speak. It is an anti-religion religion or anti- God belief. The only way to truly follow the constitution is to allow an atheist to be an atheist in public or government and allow a Christian to be a Christian in public or government. True freedom for all is what America was founded upon not freedom from religion. If a Christian is trying to force his denomination to become predominant over America or the government then that would be un-constitutional as it was originally written but for Him to pray in Jesus name or to quote Scripture etc. is not un-constitutional because it is the free exercise of his faith which is protected in the First Amendment. On the other hand if an atheist wants to express or practice his atheism, without stopping the opposite, then that is fine as well and is constitutional but to try to stop those who believe different from you is hypocrisy when you wish to express atheism. Only when religion become violent, as radical Islam, must it’s practice be banned. If Muslims are peaceful, like the other religions then they should be able to practice their faith. The problem is that it is difficult to know which Muslims are peaceful until it is too late. If any certain Christian cult, which might be violent, practices violence then it should be banned from practicing violence as Muslims. If people are peaceful Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims etc. or atheists etc. then they should have the freedom to practice their beliefs openly without government interference, even in the public domain but they are hypocrites when they try to stop others who believe differently and should be stopped from trying to take away the freedom of others.

Samuel F Waddell

Well they are fight against God.
Luke 10:16New King James Version (NKJV)
16 “He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” ( Jesus speaking to His disciples)

james blue

Read your reply and attempted to respond but it has been removed.

I had to stop several times to refuel reading it too 🙂

Samuel F Waddell

Too bad that you and others on here show your inability to listen to an opposing argument. People who always try to remove opposition to their views only show the weakness or their position and that they cannot defend it except by silencing other. Weak and pitiful. We who believe in CHRIST do not need to defend Him by trying to remove His opposition. He will do that Himself one day.

james blue

What????? Where have I tried to silence you? If I wasn’t listening to your opinion how would I respond? Disagreeing and offering a counter isn’t refusing to listen and it isn’t silencing.

I’ve called you no names, I’ve responded politely even noting that I had read your comment that had been removed and had tried to respond, but was unable to post that response as your comment had been removed.

It wasn’t me who removed it, The only people who can do that are either yourself or the site moderators and seeing as this is a Christian site and I saw nothing controversial in your post and believe it matches the site’s ideology if it was the moderators you can’t blame others on here.

Think you need to look in a mirror before casting stones buddy.

Samuel F Waddell

No stones being thrown. The Gospel of Christ in Scripture warns all of us that we will stand before the Judgement seat of CHRIST, one day and we all including myself must repent of our sins and put our full trust in JESUS CHRIST and His work on the CROSS and Resurrection to save us. People mis-quote the judge not verse all the time these days. They are warning us not to judge and be guilty of the same or we will face God’s judgment as well.

lonbo

Ah, but you do need to defend Jesus by removing his opposition. …
Luke 19:26 “‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’” 28 After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.…”

Samuel F Waddell

Why don’t you come home to CHRIST? He loves you enough to die for you and is the only one who can save us.

lonbo

Been there. Done that. I was a Christian and a pastor.

Samuel F Waddell

What happened? JESUS still loves you and there is still time to come home. I read about the prodigal son this morning in my devotions. Having peace with God in ones heart is greater than all this world has to offer.

Samuel F Waddell

There is more rejoicing over one sinner who comes to repentance than over those who have already come to repentance. I want to encourage you in the love of God. People are unsaved not because JESUS doesn’t want them but because they do not want Him or they want something else more. Come home my wandering brother and we shall celebrate with heaven!

lonbo

As one of the early members of The Clergy Project, I am acquainted with hundreds of former pastors, priests, missionaries, nuns, evangelists, rabbis, imams, monks …. who figured out the truth for themselves. There is only this natural, materialistic universe which is far more awe inspiring than tales of heaven and hell and a dead Jew on a stick. There is only this life, which we dare not waste on primitive superstition. Every day is a atheist holiday as we celebrate our emancipation from religion and gladly embrace the wonders and possibilities of reality. Get real my brother and we can celebrate together. You are far from the only one who has misspent most of one’s life on a lie.

lonbo

The only thing that happened is that i finally figured out that it’s all bullshit. Your god, like all the other gods, does not exist and never has. There is no evidence for the existence of your Jesus ever. Most of the stuff in the bible never happened. The supernatural does no exist. If it existed, it would simply be natural.

Samuel F Waddell

Well at one time, when you conscience was young an not seared, you knew. So come on back home to JESUS. Go somewhere alone with God and seek Him unless your conscience has become reprobate? I pray not. If there is still a small desire to know CHRIST personally then seek Him. Humble yourself and draw near to God. He will draw near to you.

lonbo

My conscience is clear. My mind is made up. There is no reason for anyone to believe in the existence of any supernatural deities. They don’t exist. All religion, including Christianity, is error and lies. My only desire is to do my small part to destroy all forms of religious delusion wherever it festers. God cannot because god is not and never was. God is not great or even tolerable. Religion poisons everything.

NCOriolesFan

And just because a Christian wants to pray at Graduation/sports events or any school event does NOT mean the school is endorsing Christianity as a state religion.

The Skeptical Chymist

Unless the Christian who wants to pray at the school event is an employee of the school. Then the employee is a representative of the government.

NCOriolesFan

I meant a STUDENT.

The Skeptical Chymist

Agreed. A student can pray at a school event, as long as it is student-initiated, and it is clear that the government expresses no opinion, pro or con, regarding that student’s religious expression.

bowie1

If being president included all people then that would include also those who believe in God. Not including it would make it exclusively atheistic.

The Skeptical Chymist

Omitting a reference to God does not make an oath atheistic. It makes it neutral on the subject of God or gods.

Having said that, it’s Trump’s inauguration. He can choose to add “so help me God”, or not, and he can choose to place his hand on the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the Bhagavad-Gita, or whatever. It makes no difference to me.

lonbo

He could take an oath with his tiny hand on his genitalia, which is how we get the words testimony and testify.

Croquet_Player

Well, no. Saying nothing with a religious or atheist component either way would be neutral. Saying something like “I have no reason to believe in the existence of any deities.” would be atheistic. Personally, I don’t care what he says. He can say whatever he likes. Public figures swear oaths on religious texts all the time, and then go on to do what they please, with no regard for ethics. It doesn’t seem to make the slightest bit of difference what they swore to, or what they swore it on.

balloonknot9

Ha ha ha, suck it up buttercup FFRF. Your so called “logic” and “reasoning” has no sway. Learn some tolerance if you don’t agree or like it. It’s not ALL about you and your beliefs either or should I say non beliefs. If it so offends you, you can cover your ears.

NCOriolesFan

“Ha ha ha, suck it up buttercup FFRF.”

Exactly, bunch of religious crybabies.

BooBooBaby

Seems YOU got that one Twisted! Lolz!

Penny

Keep laughing buttercup, Melania Trump was Born an Atheist, just before this election,she was proud of being an Atheist, Trump’s whole Christian belief is fake that is why he married her, and I won’t be surprised when Trump does his back on the Church. As the Church made it’s Deal with the Devil. They all have the Spirit of the Anti-Christ in them, Obama, Hillary, Trump just Wait and See. Trump will show his true colors

Marjorie Lee Peterson

You are in for one heck of a surprise. God got Trump elected and Trump won’t abandon Him now. He is a Christian and proud of it! I believe with all my heart that President Trump will look to God for guidance during his Presidency. If you don’t like it, well, there isn’t much you can do about it now is there?

lonbo

This is God. I’m busy. Leave me alone.

BooBooBaby

Well said and so true! Thank you! Exactly!
You are 100% correct!

BooBooBaby

You are a Crazy Lying Loon!

raySoller

In the 11/16/2016, article, “Trump Reveals Plans To Be Sworn In On Copy Of Playboy Magazine,” it says, “During his Sunday interview with 60 Minutes, president-elect Donald Trump revealed that he has arranged to be sworn into the White House on January 20 on a copy of Playboy Magazine, rather than the traditional Bible as most past presidents have done.”

Mary Valdivez

Well all I have to say is go for it Mr. Trump! Everybody in america seems to be able to do what they want to do except Christians, we can’t say Merry Christmas or talk about God/Jesus. But Muslims can do what ever they want & THIS ISN’T THEIR COUNTRY! Let’s all go to another country & try to change their laws & see what happens to us! I’m tired of all this crap we have here in the US, If we stood together & pushed these bigots back a few steps we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in NOW!!!! The US was created on the bible, go back & look at our forefathers & history they all took their oath on the bible!!!! So YES Suck it up buttercup!!!!! DON’T back down President elect Trump!!!!! Hallelujah Glory to God! Thank You Jesus!

tatoo

I heard a lot of people say “Merry Christmas” this year. Where do you get your misinformation from?

lonbo

Perhaps Mary is so contrary that no one cared to wish her a merry Christmas, a happy Hanukkah, an incredible Kwanzaa or a salubrious solstice. Poor, poor persecuted Mary. Jesus should do something!

BooBooBaby

Ya…..this past YEAR! That’s because we know President elect Trump will soon be our President! Haven’t YOU heard that it was Safe and Okay to finally say Merry Christmas this past Christmas!?

DoorknobHead

Mary Valdivez
> “Everybody in america seems to be able to do what they want to do except Christians”
> Munchausen syndrome is a psychiatric factitious disorder wherein those affected feign disease, illness, or psychological trauma to draw attention, sympathy, or reassurance to themselves.
> Munchausen syndrome in the colloquial vernacular is often called “victim Olympics”
> Personally, I would rather live in BIG “A” “America”, instead of the little “a” america mentioned. BIG A: The factual one based on the Roman Greek influence on the US founders. Little a: the mythical one created on the bible.
> Let someone know if you start having physical signs and symptoms or have recurrent hospitalization due to your psychological trauma.

Native American

What’s do you all get this anti-God crap?

Marjorie Lee Peterson

I don’t understand it. God has gotten me through a lot of things in my life. He got me through raising my youngest daughter alone after she was 4. He made sure I always had a job and enough money to get by on. He has answered my prayers every day, and I wouldn’t want to live without Him! He is my rock and my redeemer!

Native American

I believe there is a GOD..I also believe Jesus is Lord….to say your an atheist is comical…..because why would an athiest care how “we” Christians celebrate, speak or show our faith…have they forgotten they don’t believe….when I don’t believe ..I move on…and think to myself “not my circus, not my monkeys”…

TheKingOfRhye

“because why would an athiest care how “we” Christians celebrate, speak or show our faith”

We care when it infringes on the rights of others, that’s why. Not that I am saying rights are being infringed on here. I really don’t have a problem with politicians swearing on a Bible, or Koran, or what-have-you, as long as it is not something that is required….which of course, would be totally unconstitutional, mind you!

Native American

it’s like watching something on TV you have the remote change the channel…in other words ignore it or walk past it..it doesn’t matter to you really..so?

TheKingOfRhye

I said, something like a politician swearing on the Bible doesn’t bother me, that’s not something I’m complaining about. When someone’s being denied their rights, though, that’s the sort of thing they can’t just ignore.

Native American

I get it and respect your opinion..no problem…it just doesn’t make sense if you don’t believe in something why give it a second thought 🙂 thanks for getting back to me

TheKingOfRhye

Well, other people can believe whatever they want, proclaim it on the streets, I really don’t care. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. It’s when people take it beyond just doing that, that we run into problems.

DoorknobHead

NATIVE AMERICAN / CHRISTIAN CHILDREN SWAP MEETS
So, from time to time there were Native American and Christian settler swaps of children which were captured by each side. During the swaps, the captured native American children ran back to their Native American parents, but the Christian children wanted to stay with their Native American guardians, and were reluctant to go back to their Christian parents. Just an interesting tid-bit. I’m not even going to blame it on Christianity. Christian’s did like to physically and mentally abuse the Native American children in the name of god and force them into believing in a god with such abusive tactics, though, but I’m not judging. It is not like the Christians ever lied or broke any promises with the Native Americans — or did they do so more than you thought?

BooBooBaby

Good point!
Seems like the only seem to care when WE Christians do/say Certain things.

NCOriolesFan

It’s what they CHOOSE to believe and what they want to COERCE the public to beleive too.

TheBBP

1. A government official acknowledging God, praying to God or swearing on a Bible is not law being passed onto the people to establish Christianity as the state religion.

2. You do not have the right to not be offended.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

Is that English? I have every right to NOT be offended by Trump swearing on the Bible or having a pastor and an archbishop to speak. It’s his right, just as it would be your right if you were being sworn in. Doubt that will ever happen though.

TheBBP

Easy there, Warrior. It seems that we agree, you just misread the tone of my post. I am saying that Atheists do not have any right to not be offended. There is nothing anywhere that says that things have to be sanitized so that they don’t get their feelings hurt.

Try to not fly off the handle with insults when you think that you disagree with people.

Jason

What’s funny is most atheists don’t get offended or their feelings hurt. When we point out that others are not following the law, they get defensive, hateful, offended. It’s sad

TheBBP

Trump swearing in on a Bible and having a prayer is not against the law. He is not establishing a religion for the nation, he is simply practicing his. If Atheists weren’t offended or had their feelings hurt by this, then what is the problem?

Jason

There is a time and a religion place to practice your religion and it is not during government time. He may not be establishing a national religion but he is showing favoritism which is wrong. Trump has done and said way worse. This is way way way low on my priority list of things that matter to me. Not my fight, but it’s still wrong

TheBBP

Again, there is no law anywhere that says that a government official cannot take part in a prayer in his or her official capacity. Whether folks like that or not is of no consequence legally.

Showing favoritism? How does that affect anyone? He might show a favoritism toward a lot of things religious and otherwise that we don’t. It doesn’t mean that he should not do it so that he doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings.

Jason

Again, not my battle. I’d prefer if he didn’t swear in on a Bible, but I don’t care if he does. Take care. Good luck.

TheBBP

Thank you. Enjoy your day.

lonbo

No need to capitalize atheist. It is a common noun and we are a humble lot.

Chris Clayton

Article Six of the Constitution clearly states “all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

Me thinks we need better acknowledgment that religion is optional.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

Not optional for Trump. Would he have invited an Archbishop and Franklin Graham to speak if it was?

NCOriolesFan

Franklin Graham has already said he will be there.

NCOriolesFan

Prayer at the Inauguration is NOT a religious test. It is PERSONAL choice to include it. As you said an option.

james blue

It would be nice if he recognized freedom of all faiths and lack of in his inauguration. All presidents should.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

And why is it wrong to acknowledge HIS faith? Trump is a Christian and so it’s important to him to swear on the Bible for his oath and to have prayer for his inauguration and for his Presidency. When you are sworn in as President, you can omit anything you want to. That would be your right!

james blue

I really doubt religion is of personal importance to Trump, but where did I suggest it would be wrong to acknowledge his personal faith?

Bezukhov

Of course one must wonder what God thinks of all this. My belief is that He has far more pressing matters to ignore.

Marjorie Lee Peterson

I think He takes notice of ALL who are against Him. And ALL who believe in Him! He is omnipotent, and ever present everywhere! He knows everything you do and don’t do. Either you are written in His book of life or not. If you’re not, that’s a big problem for you! You won’t think you’re so smart when you stand in judgement before Him!

LadyInChrist♥BlessedBeTheLord

Amen.

Lisa Dell

We have freedom of speech in America, and freedom of religion. If Atheist don’t want to hear it then they don’t have to listen to it. Their choice.

tatoo

I won’t be listening to the Pussy-grabber in chief take his slimed oath.

lonbo

It appears that the president elect is endorsing Christianity with a nod to Judaism. Why are not Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Native American religions or atheism represented among his “spiritual” participants? Clearly, religious favoritism serves Trumps fascist dictatorship aspirations well. That’s why.

Wandell Carter

Did you atheist raise hell when obama used the Koran instead of the Bible when sworn in as president? If Trump wants to use the Lord’s Prayer or say, So Help me God’ while his hand is on the Holy Bible, or the Constitution, then so be it. Americans have become so ‘politically correct’ they are forgetting ‘where we came from’. I seriously doubt if any of you atheist voted for trump. you all sound like a liberal hillary voter and would complain no matter what Trump does. We need to remember we all live in this country and should be trying to put the broken country back together again. and with God’s help, we can do this.

Craig Reynolds

“obama used the Koran instead of the Bible when sworn in as president?” Oh, PUHL-eeze! Give it up already. Just look at the surveillance video.

lonbo

Koran, bible, it’s all the same shit.

Robert

who appointed this group to interpret the constitution for every body ?

MarkSebree

The FFRF are not interpreting the Constitution. They are relying on court cases and the decisions that were handed down by the judges. Primarily, the FFRF are relying on US Supreme Court cases, which is the group that is appointed to interpret the US Constitution for every one.

BooBooBaby

Oh well….Too Bad….So Sad, for them.

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