Extradition trial for Kim Dotcom? Not until August 2013

The trial has been delayed a second time for unknown reasons.

On Thursday, a New Zealand court decided to reschedule the extradition hearing sought by the US for Kim Dotcom. The hearing is now set to take place in August 2013, after being postponed once already.

Dotcom, who was arrested in his New Zealand home in January for alleged copyright fraud, was supposed to appear in court in August 2012 for the extradition hearing. Instead, the hearing was put off until March 2013 due to issues concerning the disclosure of evidence. At the time, the New Zealand High Court ruled that the FBI had to provide Kim Dotcom’s lawyers with more of the evidence they had collected against him before he could stand trial for extradition.

A spokeswoman for one of Dotcom’s lawyers confirmed the change but did not provide a reason for it, according to the AFP.

Dotcom is currently living free on bail in New Zealand, and although he was originally barred from using the Internet, the Web mogul has since launched a new site that functions as a heavily encrypted service similar to Megaupload. That leniency somewhat reflects the momentum of the case against Dotcom: in September, New Zealand authorities found that the country’s Security Bureau had illegally spied on him, putting another roadblock up in the effort to convict Kim Dotcom for piracy.

KDC appears to have been bright enough to hire Really Good legal help in both NZ and the U.S..

This development bodes well for him, I think. The U.S. is probably unwilling or unable to provide the necessary evidence to his defense team and this could mean the extradition will end up dead.

The U.S. prosecution may actually want this since his American legal team is already winning small battles in the U.S. case and are of the caliber to shred the prosecution's case, IMO. This way they don't have to go to trial and see their whole MO wrecked and rendered completely unusable against file locker sites (if it isn't already).

Good for him. We can all see now what a complete travesty this has been.

It used to be called "rail-roading" someone. I don't know what to call it now, but I hope he shoves it up their collective a##es.

and what happens if they simply drop everything after another year or two? leave him bankrupt even unable to sue government for the damages? are there any laws in NZ which can help him?

Well, they already shuttered Megaupload without definitive criminal charges, frozen his assets for a long time, and generally done everything that they can to try to ensure that he isn't able to mount a proper defense. I'd guarantee that their goal is simply to financially ruin him since they know that they are on thin ice when it comes to current laws regarding his businesses.

Tie someone up in the legal system long enough and you'll get your wish, provided that your pockets are deeper and refilled by the government.

and what happens if they simply drop everything after another year or two? leave him bankrupt even unable to sue government for the damages? are there any laws in NZ which can help him?

Well, they already shuttered Megaupload without definitive criminal charges, frozen his assets for a long time, and generally done everything that they can to try to ensure that he isn't able to mount a proper defense. I'd guarantee that their goal is simply to financially ruin him since they know that they are on thin ice when it comes to current laws regarding his businesses.

Tie someone up in the legal system long enough and you'll get your wish, provided that your pockets are deeper and refilled by the government.

It is a sad day when government agencies see that as a legitimate means to achieve their ends.

I enjoy how you all are jumping to the conclusion that this is the US's doing; indeed, this looks like a delaying tactic on Dotcom's part, as the longer he drags it out, the less interest (he hopes) there is in the US for prosecuting him due to the legal fees associated with him dragging everything out as long as is possible. The sooner he comes here, the sooner he is very likely to go to jail.

This is why we need to make justice swift. There is no excuse for delaying this to next August.

At the risk of calling you a RIAA shill, how do you figure that the delay is KDC's fault? If the DOJ is not submitting the evidence that the defense is entitled to, too ensure a fair extradition hearing, it is then the DOJ's fault for dragging their ass. But, perhaps they are doing that to clean all the shit off of it from this debacle.

Also to your second point, KDC has already volunteered to fly to the USA and present himself. The US has ignored this.

The big problem is that the DOJ seems to be in the pocket of the RIAA.MPAA in this matter and they are increasingly looking like big idiots.

I enjoy how you all are jumping to the conclusion that this is the US's doing; indeed, this looks like a delaying tactic on Dotcom's part, as the longer he drags it out, the less interest (he hopes) there is in the US for prosecuting him due to the legal fees associated with him dragging everything out as long as is possible. The sooner he comes here, the sooner he is very likely to go to jail.

This is why we need to make justice swift. There is no excuse for delaying this to next August.

At the risk of calling you a RIAA shill, how do you figure that the delay is KDC's fault? If the DOJ is not submitting the evidence that the defense is entitled to, too ensure a fair extradition hearing, it is then the DOJ's fault for dragging their ass. But, perhaps they are doing that to clean all the shit off of it from this debacle.

Also to your second point, KDC has already volunteered to fly to the USA and present himself. The US has ignored this.

The big problem is that the DOJ seems to be in the pocket of the RIAA.MPAA in this matter and they are increasingly looking like big idiots.

US has done a totally illegal action.US Gov and NZ were both caught with their Pants down playing with their Big Guns.Two groups of Cops playing with their Pork Swords !

I'd love to know how much the government has spent on this is. Given the debates about the fiscal cliff and responsible government, maybe we could find out just how much is being spent by government prosecutors on this and other similar criminal proceedings. They seem to be poorly planned, of questionable legality, and dependent on the money and support of the gov't to accomplish goals that the public has very little say in. If the MPAA/RIAA, or any other company wants to sue people, it should be them doing it, not the government.

I enjoy how you all are jumping to the conclusion that this is the US's doing; indeed, this looks like a delaying tactic on Dotcom's part, as the longer he drags it out, the less interest (he hopes) there is in the US for prosecuting him due to the legal fees associated with him dragging everything out as long as is possible. The sooner he comes here, the sooner he is very likely to go to jail.

This is why we need to make justice swift. There is no excuse for delaying this to next August.

At the risk of calling you a RIAA shill, how do you figure that the delay is KDC's fault? If the DOJ is not submitting the evidence that the defense is entitled to, too ensure a fair extradition hearing, it is then the DOJ's fault for dragging their ass. But, perhaps they are doing that to clean all the shit off of it from this debacle.

Also to your second point, KDC has already volunteered to fly to the USA and present himself. The US has ignored this.

The big problem is that the DOJ seems to be in the pocket of the RIAA.MPAA in this matter and they are increasingly looking like big idiots.

Please, please stop responding to this guy (TitaniumDragon). He is just a RIAA/MPAA shill and you will not gain anything useful by trying to reason with him.

On topic: it seems clear now that the goverments (NZ and/or US) realise that their case against Dotcom is basically nonexistent so have switched to the strategy of simply delaying indefinitely in order to drain him of resources to defend himself. The government(s) on the other hand of course have infinite (taxpayer provided) money to keep doing this crap.

This was already mentioned a couple of months ago when somebody from the US prosecution side basically said as much almost directly that due to some loophole in the law there is not really a deadline by which they need to act. This would of course be against the sixth ammendment in the US, but who cares about that stuff any more, right?

Did you read the article? The delay is to give the Dotcom camp more time for discovery because the NZ courts forced the prosecution to give him more of the information they had collected on him. The delay is good for Dotcom.

I'd love to know how much the government has spent on this is. Given the debates about the fiscal cliff and responsible government, maybe we could find out just how much is being spent by government prosecutors on this and other similar criminal proceedings. They seem to be poorly planned, of questionable legality, and dependent on the money and support of the gov't to accomplish goals that the public has very little say in. If the MPAA/RIAA, or any other company wants to sue people, it should be them doing it, not the government.

the NZ government has spent millions of tax dollars going after him, making it likely one of the most expensive cases in the country’s history. According to documents released to One News under the Official Information Act (analogous to the United States’ Freedom of Information Act), “up to five crown lawyers have spent more than 6,000 hours working on the case. Crown law will not say how much that has cost, but private firms charge up to NZ$600 (US$504) an hour, which would bring the bill to more than NZ$3 million (US$2.5 million).”

For small crimes, it's better have the court system take a year or two with your trial, then drop the charges, than it is to have those charges on your permanent record. So it's nothing new, but obviously it's not helping Dotcom the least bit. Then again who knows maybe that's exactly what will happen, they'll drop the charges and keep the money.

The US actions in this case have been beyond belief, including ignoring an explicit court order and shipping evidence out of the country. The agents involved were lucky the judge didn't slap their asses in jail for contempt and then recommend prosecution for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

As I understand it, the US doesn't want to reveal its dubious practices in order to obtain some kind of judgment or inflict more harm on Kim DC. Ha. So they're over a barrel and the Kiwis are embarrassed to have acted like poodles for Uncle Sam.

1) We all know he's guilty.2) We all know the RIAA and the MPAA used their contacts in the US government to emphasize an action against this guy for something we all know he's guilty of. The US government used ITS contacts in NZ to push through an action that was questionable (at best) here and illegal there via their own wings of similar governmental institutions.3) None of the players involved thought this would go farther than the man is arrested by NZ officials, he is extradited. They didn't think that the light of day would be shone on all this. They didn't think the people involved who pushed this action through would be lit up for all the world to see. They didn't imagine in their wildest dreams that the NZ government would begin to push back in defense of this (very likely) guilty man.

But you see, that's the beauty of our system of government. You aren't supposed to get shortcuts or bypasses just because the guy's guilty. You're supposed to go through the proper channels and you're supposed to be sure the level of punishment and execution of justice matches the level of the crime. The crime in this case just wasn't that severe (even though the MPAA and RIAA might argue otherwise) and it wasn't worth all the favors and palm greasing that went into it.

This was meant to be a warning shot to all who do similar actions. I think this will be a cautionary tale to the US government stooges that went along with the RIAA and MPAA instead.

Also to your second point, KDC has already volunteered to fly to the USA and present himself. The US has ignored this.

He did not make a serious offer to do so, and if you think he did, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona which is QUITE affordable...

Quote:

Could Dotcom pay for better PR than an incompetent US DoJ and NZ justice system have provided?

The PR is entirely generated by himself in villifying them. You are the sucker who is buying it.

Quote:

But you see, that's the beauty of our system of government. You aren't supposed to get shortcuts or bypasses just because the guy's guilty. You're supposed to go through the proper channels and you're supposed to be sure the level of punishment and execution of justice matches the level of the crime. The crime in this case just wasn't that severe (even though the MPAA and RIAA might argue otherwise) and it wasn't worth all the favors and palm greasing that went into it.

Oh, no. The crime in this case was VERY severe; millions and millions of dollars is a ridiculously large amount of money to be gained via criminal activity. People who do analysis on this sort of thing will tell you that this is the equivalent of several murders from an economic standpoint.

The problem is that, like many people, you don't see the victims very clearly, and ergo you consider it not to be a very serious crime. It has been shown, for instance, that if you steal from one person, you actually get a worse sentence than from stealing from a hundred. Its ridiculous, but its the way people's brains work - the larger the number of victims, the less real they are to them, and when you steal from a company, it is even more vague for a lot of people.

But make no mistake that Kim Dotcom hurt a lot of people with what he did. Don't lie to yourself and think it isn't serious. It was a very serious act.

Also to your second point, KDC has already volunteered to fly to the USA and present himself. The US has ignored this.

He did not make a serious offer to do so, and if you think he did, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona which is QUITE affordable...

Quote:

Could Dotcom pay for better PR than an incompetent US DoJ and NZ justice system have provided?

The PR is entirely generated by himself in villifying them. You are the sucker who is buying it.

Quote:

But you see, that's the beauty of our system of government. You aren't supposed to get shortcuts or bypasses just because the guy's guilty. You're supposed to go through the proper channels and you're supposed to be sure the level of punishment and execution of justice matches the level of the crime. The crime in this case just wasn't that severe (even though the MPAA and RIAA might argue otherwise) and it wasn't worth all the favors and palm greasing that went into it.

Oh, no. The crime in this case was VERY severe; millions and millions of dollars is a ridiculously large amount of money to be gained via criminal activity. People who do analysis on this sort of thing will tell you that this is the equivalent of several murders from an economic standpoint.

The problem is that, like many people, you don't see the victims very clearly, and ergo you consider it not to be a very serious crime. It has been shown, for instance, that if you steal from one person, you actually get a worse sentence than from stealing from a hundred. Its ridiculous, but its the way people's brains work - the larger the number of victims, the less real they are to them, and when you steal from a company, it is even more vague for a lot of people.

But make no mistake that Kim Dotcom hurt a lot of people with what he did. Don't lie to yourself and think it isn't serious. It was a very serious act.

You are missing the fact that this "criminal activity" is only criminal because the RIAA etc keep pushing new laws on us that make it so, and spend millions making sure we dont change laws to be in the favor of consumers. You are completely ignorant of a great many things if you think that the US and NZ governments didnt F this one up of their own accord, and many more if you think copyright, patent or trademark infringement are "serious crimes" that need serious punishments.