Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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<quoted text>Funny how you slip fact right out of your argument, perhaps it’s an issue of your deliberate ignorancePlease show any “genuine” documentation (not creation.com fabrication and BS) to show his drawings were produced to convince anyone that early embryos looked virtually identicalAs it happens mammalian embryos do tend to look similar. In general terms aquatic, even amphibian embryos have a marked similarity to mammalian embryos, the key word is similar.Mouse embryohttp://www.geneticsandsociety.org/img/origina...similar to a human embryohttp://matthew2262.files.wordpress.com/2012/0...Note these are photographs, not sketches.Please show where, on improving his knowledge the drawings were not edited, really, does this advancing information retrieval constitute fraud? Or are you just a hate filled liar who has found something to latch on to and is a little short of facts?There is no one continuing to publish those drawings in relation to biology or evolutional education, the drawing are in older books, or hyped to hell on creationist websites. Where they are published in modern books it is to show the difference in understanding between early biological sciences and modern biological sciencesJust because you are unwilling to invest in modern education is no ones fault but your own, and of course it shows in you posts.What reasons do I have to accept your denials, lies and hatred on peer review when you are not even able to defend a 4000 years old un peer reviewed godbook of mythology and pseudo science that hypes the worlds biggest fraud and is incapable of peer review?You are unwilling to even accept the existence of documented facts that I have shown you TWICE where evolutionary biology articles can most often (there are other sources) be found peer reviewed. You seem to be happy to lie in the face of fact by ignoring the evidence.I am not defending the drawings, as I have already agreed they are inaccurate by today’s standards of hi resolution medical photography and 3D imaging, this is fact as shown by evolutionary scientists and modern technology/understanding, not as you claim by creatards. However for the standards of 140 years ago those drawings were acceptable. Time is the thing, the thing that creatards can never seem to get a handle on. 13.7 billion years, 4.5 billion years, 140 years, it all gets jumbled in the last 6000 years to them because facts screw up their objectionsI have no tolerance for liars and the evidence shows categorically that there was no fraud. Therefore you are lying. Does lying for your belief make you hard? Does it give you an erection? Does it help you masturbate? These and deliberate ignorance are the only reasons to lie for you god.You can always tell when a creatard is lying they always prefix there lies with either “clearly” or “obvious” meaning that they don’t actually have any evidence so need to rely on what is to them alone is clear and obvious faith.

In terms of "fraud" there is a lot of similarity between his work and the works of Schiaparelli, Burton and Percival Lowell in their sketches of the canals on Mars.

Telescope quality was still poor then by today's standards and the same goes for microscopes. And the worst those guys were accused of was being a bit too imaginative and not accounting for optical distortions.

<quoted text>It's laughable to watch you try to defend a veritable quack in your desperate attempts to prop up your religion. If you were interested in science, you would plainly acknowledge the fraudulent nature of Haeckle's drawings. However, your quest for truth is superseded by your desire to defend your atheistic religion.

I have refuted this. You failed (for some strange reason) to even acknowledge I refuted this.

What are you afraid of? That you will have to find new material to tell lies about? Suck it up.

No one has made a successful case for Haeckle's drawings being fraudulent. If I am wrong then enlighten me.

<quoted text>Says the guy who argues in outdated creationist cliches.Says the guy who can't pick science out of a line-up.Says the guy who will believe anything a creations site tells him.Science is a culture of skepticism, not a culture of believing whatever you want to believe.

There is no skepticism in evolutionary biology.The immutable doctrine is EVOLUTIONDIDIT.

<quoted text>Tell me again why God created humans with an appendix which is no longer useful for its original purpose.

The stale "imperfections of nature" observation is a philosophical argument that has been repeatedly and soundly debunked. You only underscore the weakness of the evolution hypothesis by continually dredging it up.

<quoted text>Look at history instead of hiding your head in the sand.The coelacanth was a classic transitional species... the poster child of organic evolution until 1938 when an actual specimen became available for dissection.

Where are you getting these bedtime stories from? Coelacanth were never seriously considered to be a major transitional, at least not for very long.

Coelacanth is proof of evolution. NONE of the existing GENUS of Latimeria (modern Coelacanth) exist in the fossil record.

Coelacanth seems to have evolved from Macropoma or Macropomoides from the mid to late cretaceous. All of those species and families and ORDERS have died out. So, if you ADMIT that the modern coelacanth is related to the coelacanths in the fossil record you are confessing MACROEVOLUTION in a very large way.

<quoted text>He has no morals. Rusty at least makes some effort, on occasion, but HTS cannot stop himself from telling lies, even about things that are easy to verify.Anyone who needs a god standing over them to behave correctly has not morals. That is just fear, not morality.

It's interesting that rather than providing scientific arguments to refute what I post, your only retort is to call me a "liar".You say I have no morals, yet you embrace a worldview that is totally devoid of morality.

<quoted text>The coelacanth has more than "mere fins".It is not transitional.It lives 1,500 feet deep in the ocean and is not about to venture out onto land.Learn a lesson in humility.Your storytelling is not science.

True FalseTrue (though most coelacanth in the fossil record lived in shallow waters).

<quoted text>The stale "imperfections of nature" observation is a philosophical argument that has been repeatedly and soundly debunked. You only underscore the weakness of the evolution hypothesis by continually dredging it up.

My "argument" was only in response to logical error in the particular post I was replying to. It was an attempt to show the poster their error in logic using an analogous counter example. I use the exact same error as they made only using a countering example.

Not that they are bright enough to get it.

And the appendix still no longer has the same useful function in the digestive system that it once did.

<quoted text>It's interesting that rather than providing scientific arguments to refute what I post, your only retort is to call me a "liar".You say I have no morals, yet you embrace a worldview that is totally devoid of morality.

You have facts bas ackward. I believe in God, but I do not need the fear of god to motivate me to do what is right.

Atheists have better morals than we Christians do because they do what is right without any requirement to do what is right.

Why are there a disproportional number of Christians in prison while atheists are underrepresented vs. their numbers in the general population?

And it is an observable fact that you flub up basic science every opportunity you get. You can't say two words about evolution without throwing in a straw-man.

<quoted text>It's interesting that rather than providing scientific arguments to refute what I post, your only retort is to call me a "liar".You say I have no morals, yet you embrace a worldview that is totally devoid of morality.

HTS, we have shown countless times when yo have lied. One of your favorite methods is to quote mine and after catching you several times I do so automatically. I have yet to be shown wrong in those accusations and if you were not quote mining it would be easy for you to prove it. You may not be doing the dirty work yourself but you are at the very least going to sources that you know quote mine since you have been caught in the past when you used the same source. Passing off a friend's lie that you know is a lie is still lying.

<quoted text>You really need to get more educated on this subject before speaking on it. At least rusty does not make as many silly mistakes as this.coelacanth IS a transitional (except for the ones that went extinct without leaving a lineage).It is not considered to be a MAJOR transitional.Also, please learn the following words and their meaning in biology.SpeciesGenusFamilyOrderTransitionalMajor-Transitional.Thanks for your support.

<quoted text>You have facts bas ackward. I believe in God, but I do not need the fear of god to motivate me to do what is right.Atheists have better morals than we Christians do because they do what is right without any requirement to do what is right.Why are there a disproportional number of Christians in prison while atheists are underrepresented vs. their numbers in the general population?And it is an observable fact that you flub up basic science every opportunity you get. You can't say two words about evolution without throwing in a straw-man.

SZ... You are a spineless atheist wallowing in the putrid stench of uncontrollable arrogance.

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