Collapsible batons

This is a discussion on Collapsible batons within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Your welcome.
The only negative thing I can say about the 245 is that in the car with it in your sap pocket, it was ...

Do you guys have any strong opinions on the standard 24" hickory or maple police baton?

I recently saw an old L.A County Sheriff's Dpt. training film on the use of the police baton and it looked like a VERY formidable melee weapon. The use of the baton seems fairly instinctive. In fact a good tennis player could weild one with great effect.

A collapsible baton doesn't really seen practical for home defense. Now, if you want one 'just because', then go for it. For my money though, if I was going to get an melee striking instrument for the house, I'd get one of these:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtqOiKUcT_Q

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

Do you guys have any strong opinions on the standard 24" hickory or maple police baton?

I recently saw an old L.A County Sheriff's Dpt. training film on the use of the police baton and it looked like a VERY formidable melee weapon. The use of the baton seems fairly instinctive. In fact a good tennis player could weild one with great effect.

I saw that not long after it was made. Batons were effective when techniques were less restricted.

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

I live in MO and here is my 2 cents about expandable batons (MO only) .

I believe they fall under the definition of blackjack according to RSMO.

571.010. As used in this chapter, the following terms shall mean
(2) "Blackjack", any instrument that is designed or adapted for the purpose of stunning or inflicting physical injury by striking a person, and which is readily capable of lethal use;

It is illegal to carry a blackjack on your person according to 571.030:
1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

Unless you have your CCW according to 571.030 2 (4)
4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

So if you can carry a concealed firearm you can carry an expandable baton. Anyone from MO please let me know if I am wrong in my analysis.

I have considered getting an expandable baton in case SHTF here and they take away our firearms like they did in NO. I still would like to be able to protect myself. I think I may pick one up a the next local gun show.

Originally Posted by Bark'n

In Missouri, a collapsible baton is considered to be a "martial arts" implement under the law and is legal statewide. However, there may be local ordinances which may prohibit them, so refer to your local statutes.

The statue you quoted does not apply to expandable batons. The info I provided in my quoted response is based on reply from our County Sheriff, as well as several LEO Expandable Baton Trainers.

I did not feel the need to call the attorney general, but feel free to do so if you wish.

Not singling anyone out, just more or lest the climate on forums, but people seems more intereted in talking about which tool, the best way to carry it, and less about deployment, and use. What is also left out is the need to mitigate exposure by seeking knowlege, and training, to know what types of tools may cause you more problems carrying, than their use could be a benefit.

I always get a kick out of it when people cut and paste their state and local laws about weapons. More than any other types the laws antiqued and misunderstood even those that enforce them. If you have to dig for a loophole to carry a specific tool and it is the back of your mind that you may not be 100% legal, do you think that in situation that is not quite life or death that you may hesitate to use that tool and instead use something else that you are legal to carry? Why not just carry that tool with 100% confidence?

So if you carry a baton in the car, or keep it in the house, do you realy think you are going to be in a physical position to access it when you need it or because of ciircumstance will you just use something on your person (usually, your hands first) anyway. Just some thoughts- George

I got my ASP shipped directly to me and I am not involved in LE. It would also be legal for me to carry, but ONLY because I have a FL CWP. Otherwise it would be illegal. This includes keeping one in my car where I have immediate access to it.

But I don't carry it, because I know I would not be able to use it effectively. I know it can be quite effective (and even lethal) if used, but I also know that someone like me with zero training with sticks, let alone a baton, would just have it stripped from me. I know it's not even close to comparable, but I have really ripped through some thick cardboard boxes if you hit them at a good angle with the tip.

Mostly it just sits in my drawer in the plastic holder thing. I kind of regret buying it since I never use it, but eh, at least now I know.

I got mine just before I left on my second deployment to Iraq (2004)...based on a suggestion from my SNCOIC (SFC, USA)....came in handy when dealing with the local kids who were being pests (they would take anything off of you that wasn't attached). They knew we couldn't shoot them....so after I told them to leave, they continued to be pests. Once I took out the ASP, they went running....an effective deterrent.

But I don't carry it, because I know I would not be able to use it effectively.

That is a problem fully in your power to solve. Kali silat, escrima, there are various arts that can teach you how to use a baton effectively. You can get a training version (PVC pipe cased in foam) and practice with a partner, learning what works and what doesn't. There are training videos you can study. Lots of ways forward if you want to move in that direction.

I agree, shockwave. That is something that is entirely my fault. I've been looking into something, and I know I need to do it for my own good, but I am not sure I'll have the time to dedicate to it. I know that's a bad excuse for not learning how to handle yourself in a physical altercation.

I've been looking at a jeet kune do school. There isn't too much else here in Orlando, other than the big, chain, corporate-branded "self defense" type classes and generic karate type arts. http://www.jkdinstitute.com/ . Their curriculum includes escrima/kali so I think it would be useful.

That would be an excellent choice for learning stick defense. Jeet Kun Do uses a fairly basic and practical weapons system structured on classical fencing and is applicable to not just batons, but any makeshift tool of cylindrical shape. Unlike some physical arts and internal styles, you wouldn't need to make a major time investment in order to get dangerously good in short order. That's a real benefit to weapons training - after you master a technique, it's like riding a bicycle - constant training isn't required to maintain adequate skill.

If you get a chance, drop by the school and ask to sit in on a lesson and see if it's right for you.

If you want to learn to use a baton safely and effectively, consider going to a training class in your local area. These classes are usually for security guards. I checked around and found one in my area. The class I took also showed us how to properly use OC Spray as well. I learned ALOT! Swinging and flailing around a baton and not knowing the outcomes (both physically & legally) could be dangerous. Like one of the posters said earlier, it does serve as a great deterrent and might avert a physical altercation altogether. But just like a gun, make sure to check your local laws about a civilian carrying a collapsible baton either concealed or open carry before you start packing it around. If you go to one of those training sessions they would be able to answer that in greater detail.