Og, you should look at Christianity in the form of Biblical Christianity...really the only form of it that follows the Bible, everything in it, follows correct interpretations, and doesn't use man made rituals or twist any words in it.

Sorry knickfan4lyfe, but we've had our arguments...Jehovah's witness has many problems in it that are common and many i explained to you in the past.

OG- You can bash Jehovah's witness all you want but all i ask is that you don't view Jesus and his apostles in the light that a Jehovah's witness does.

Pick up an ESV Bible or listen to guys like Ravi Zacharias, John Mcarthur, Raul Reiss, Saved Jews like Kirk Schnieder, Jeffrey Seif, Zola Levitt....there is a whole understanding of the bible that is deeper than what most congregations can even fathom. Interpretations and connections between the Jewish people and Gentile Christians that are amazing.

You know a faith that follows the bible for what it is, and it's something other than JW's who are known for basing their entire lives around it?

And no need to be sorry. It is what it is. I have people who explain hell, God, afterlife, purpose for man, and why God allows suffering. You never brought those things to the table. So I just chalked it up to you not having the answers, or not wanting to share.

Good day!

Mar 15, 2010, 14:05

LJ4ptplay

Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained to lie:

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)

1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)

Mar 15, 2010, 14:15

LJ4ptplay

More Jehovah's Witnesses molested while the organization covered it up.

Mar 15, 2010, 14:57

Knicks4lyfe

LJ, as usual, you're missing it.

No one said every individual JW's is acting in accord With the faith. I have said even JW's commit the most vile of atrocities.

But as whole, the organization is righteous before Jehovah's eyes, because it is the only one striving to live according to his will.

So you could pull 100 of these video's out if you wish. You wouldn't be saying anything new to people. Imperfect people do vile things. Even ones who should know better (like a JW).

Still does not change the fact that Isaiah 2 has come true. Still does not change the fact that false religion is almost dead, and JW's have been preaching it's fall for decades.

All it does is shed light on the individuals who strayed away from Jehovah's laws and principles. Hopefully, those involved will get things right with Jehovah, and have not turned the innocent victims away from him.

Good thing God is forgiving. Because people surely are not.

Mar 15, 2010, 15:00

LJ4ptplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

LJ, as usual, you're missing it.

No one said every individual JW's is acting in accord With the faith. I have said even JW's commit the most vile of atrocities.

But as whole, the organization is righteous before Jehovah's eyes, because it is the only one striving to live according to his will.

So you could pull 100 of these video's out if you wish. You wouldn't be saying anything new to people. Imperfect people do vile things. Even ones who should know better (like a JW).

Still does not change the fact that Isaiah 2 has come true. Still does not change the fact that false religion is almost dead, and JW's have been preaching it's fall for decades.

All it does is shed light on the individuals who strayed away from Jehovah's laws and principles. Hopefully, those involved will get things right with Jehovah, and have not turned the innocent victims away from him.

Good thing God is forgiving. Because people surely are not.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained to lie:

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)

1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)

Mar 15, 2010, 15:53

Knicks4lyfe

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained to lie:

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)

1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)

Please, do not try and mislead people. The whole entire article will clear this up.

● From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:
God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. But we may not tell a falsehood.

Thus a sister should tell the truth about her age for the purpose of having correct information on her publisher’s record card, as that comes under the purvue of right to know. Fear to do so is a sign of vanity and immaturity. Nor may this particular information be kept from a prospective mate if that one thinks it important enough to ask. Such a one would also have a right to know. So it would depend upon the circumstances whether one may be evasive about one’s age or not.

The same principle applies in the case of a patient suffering from some incurable disease. He has the right to know the verdict of a medical examination as to his life prospects. He may not be denied the knowledge that is so vital to him—just how precious his days are to him by reason of their being so few. It does not make for trust, understanding and love to deceive such a one, and the one practicing the deception will be continually plagued by a guilty conscience. If the patient is dedicated to Jehovah he certainly will appreciate that his times are in God’s hands and therefore will not have a morbid fear of dying but will strengthen himself in the resurrection hope. Some who withheld such information, intending kindness, afterward found that it had been a mistaken kindness.

There is, of course, a right time and manner for divulging such information. The time should be opportune and the manner sympathetic yet not unduly sorrowful. It may not be amiss to observe that one may be hopeful about his condition in spite of such a prognosis, since medical knowledge is not infallible today. Love, wisdom and self-control will enable one to broach the subject properly and the result can be a far greater bond of affection than existed previously. At such a time the resurrection hope, the blessings already enjoyed as a member of the New World society as well as those that still lie ahead might also be mentioned.

What about telling a prospective mate the unfavorable truth about one’s past, such as before one became one of Jehovah’s witnesses? If the subject comes up and one is asked, the rule would apply that the truth should be told as the other has a right to know. If one is not asked, then it would be up to one’s discretion and conscience. However, if it appeared that the information was vital to the other, and the other did not ask simply because he did not think such a thing likely, then the information should be volunteered, trusting in love and understanding to cover over the matter. If there is to be any disillusionment, certainly it is far better that it take place before marriage than afterward. Here the well-known principle stated by Jesus would apply: “All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.”—Matt. 7:12.

There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. A Scriptural example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovah’s approval in doing so is seen from James’ commendation of her faith.—Josh. 2:4, 5; Jas. 2:25.

This would come under the term “war strategy,” as explained in The Watchtower, February 1, 1956, and is in keeping with Jesus’ counsel that when among wolves we must be as “cautious as serpents.” Should circumstances require a Christian to take the witness stand and swear to tell the truth, then, if he speaks at all, he must utter the truth. When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own, remembering Jesus’ words: “No one has greater love than this, that someone should surrender his [life] in behalf of his friends.”—Matt. 10:16; John 15:13.

not speaking and telling a lie to be lying is a completely diff thing.

You're reaching now. Please, stop.

Mar 15, 2010, 16:02

LJ4ptplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained to lie:

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)

1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)

Witholding information when you know it and lying are the same thing. For example, not telling the truth to people about what happens when you are disfellowshipped. That is lying, and you know it.

I see no differences in the Buddhist monk serving alcohol to get their message out and the Jehovah's Witness instruction booklet telling JW's it is alright to lie to get the message out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

LJ, as usual, you're missing it.

No one said every individual JW's is acting in accord With the faith. I have said even JW's commit the most vile of atrocities.

But as whole, the organization is righteous before Jehovah's eyes, because it is the only one striving to live according to his will.

So you could pull 100 of these video's out if you wish. You wouldn't be saying anything new to people. Imperfect people do vile things. Even ones who should know better (like a JW).

Still does not change the fact that Isaiah 2 has come true. Still does not change the fact that false religion is almost dead, and JW's have been preaching it's fall for decades.

All it does is shed light on the individuals who strayed away from Jehovah's laws and principles. Hopefully, those involved will get things right with Jehovah, and have not turned the innocent victims away from him.

Good thing God is forgiving. Because people surely are not.

And you missed my point. Since you decided to lump the entire Buddhist religion as false because this particular example, I can then lump the entire Jehovah's Witnesses religion as false because of the examples I gave.

Where in Isaiah 2 has it come true? Let's see, the mountain with the LORD's temple is not higher than Mount Everest. So that is false. The Lord has not settled arguments between the nations, so that is false. The land is not filled with horses and chariots (when was the last time a you saw a chariot?), so that is false. Most people in Israel do not worship Philistine gods, so that is false.

The rest of the passage is about God being his typical petty and vengeful self. Terrifying people and making them bow down and worship him or else kill them.

Of all the religions, your god has to be one of the worst. So jealous, angry, violent and vengeful. I'm glad your god doesn't exist.

Mar 15, 2010, 16:17

LJ4ptplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. A Scriptural example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovah’s approval in doing so is seen from James’ commendation of her faith.—Josh. 2:4, 5; Jas. 2:25.

This would come under the term “war strategy,” as explained in The Watchtower, February 1, 1956, and is in keeping with Jesus’ counsel that when among wolves we must be as “cautious as serpents.” Should circumstances require a Christian to take the witness stand and swear to tell the truth, then, if he speaks at all, he must utter the truth. When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own, remembering Jesus’ words: “No one has greater love than this, that someone should surrender his [life] in behalf of his friends.”—Matt. 10:16; John 15:13.

not speaking and telling a lie to be lying is a completely diff thing.

You're reaching now. Please, stop.

Holy sh*t!! I'm reaching?!?! LMAO. You just exposed yourself and your religion even more by posting these three statements. Please. This is unbelievable.

Quote:

This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive.

WTF. Being evasive and hiding the truth when you know it is another form of lying. And how do you decide when someone is entitled?

Quote:

As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies.

You admit hiding the truth from God's foes. You consider me one of God's foes, so I cannot trust you about anything involving the JWs. You will hide the truth (i.e. lie). I have not hidden anything from you.

Quote:

When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own

This is just f*cked up. If taking the witness stand against a fellow JW, you will plead the 5th and stay silent. That is lying!! And this is why the JWs are a cult.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are definitely a false religion and this proves it. No true religion would purposely hide the truth from ANYBODY.

Mar 15, 2010, 17:58

Knicks4lyfe

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Witholding information when you know it and lying are the same thing. For example, not telling the truth to people about what happens when you are disfellowshipped. That is lying, and you know it.

I see no differences in the Buddhist monk serving alcohol to get their message out and the Jehovah's Witness instruction booklet telling JW's it is alright to lie to get the message out.

But you're wrong, it does not say to lie at all. In fact it stresses, if you speak, it MUST be the truth. So it's not telling anyone to lie. It gave the example of pleading the 5th as an option, that would not go against Christian morals, in that setting.

A person who pleads the 5th can now be deemed a liar, for exercising his right to not speak on a subject? Really? How could one lie without speaking? I thought you were smarter than that. But guess not.

You're now coming across pigheaded, quite frankly. And I never would have imagined such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

And you missed my point. Since you decided to lump the entire Buddhist religion as false because this particular example, I can then lump the entire Jehovah's Witnesses religion as false because of the examples I gave.

Again, wrong. I never lumped the entire faith in because of these few monks. I simply pointed to the article as further proof of the dying of religion. One monk's success, warranted others wanting his advice, so the trends will likely continue. But that does not mean there will not remain purists.

And Buddhism is false for many other reasons besides Rapping Monks who serve drinks for followers. But I have addressed that here [Only registered and activated users can see images. Click Here To Register...]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Where in Isaiah 2 has it come true? Let's see, the mountain with the LORD's temple is not higher than Mount Everest. So that is false. The Lord has not settled arguments between the nations, so that is false. The land is not filled with horses and chariots (when was the last time a you saw a chariot?), so that is false. Most people in Israel do not worship Philistine gods, so that is false.

Hope this helps.

2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream.

Clearly this speaks of the Last days. The mountains is actually not a real mountain. It's figurative. Why? Because it's the mountain of the House of Jehovah. The house of Jehovah is where one goes to worship Jehovah. So it's speaking of those who will worship him, and that worship of him, will be clearly above worship of false gods, or false worship in general. And to it, nations must stream. Jehovah's people fit the bill there without an issue. We are made up of most every nation known to mankind. Moving on.

3 And many peoples(Nations) will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah(true worship), to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” (Learn and obey Jehovah)For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. Moving on.

4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

Now you say he has not done this. But you are wrong. Why? Because he has set matters straight respecting the many peoples (Nations) that have flocked towards his mountain of true worship! And those many nations have beat their swords into plowshares, and spears into pruning sheers, and nation does not life up sword against nation, and neither do they learn war anymore. Who are these ones made of many peoples and nations that flock to worship Jehovah and will not go to war or learn it anymore? Does this people actually exist today?

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

I'm glad your god doesn't exist.

Jehovah does not exist, yet what he says will happen does? And we're the stupid ones the world says.

Mar 15, 2010, 18:22

Knicks4lyfe

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Holy sh*t!! I'm reaching?!?! LMAO. You just exposed yourself and your religion even more by posting these three statements. Please. This is unbelievable.

Not only are you reaching, but your very inept in your att. as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

WTF. Being evasive and hiding the truth when you know it is another form of lying. And how do you decide when someone is entitled?

First, be sure to include the whole situation. It specifically speaks of enemies of God. Plus, any matter will always be up to Bible trained conscience. More than likely, if a person knows another witness has committed wrongdoing of any kind, they are first implored to approach the person and let them know they know, and give them time to approach the elders to speak on it. If it is more serious, than that person will approach the elders immediately, along with the proper authorities in the matter. This, is more so the case than not. Especially in light of how not doing it this way has brought reproach on Jehovah and his people.

You reap what you sow. A JW engaging in wrongdoing should not expect his brothers to lie for him, if caught. But there are instances when the enemy is also drumming up false claims as well. So depending on the setting, will likely dictate the situation.

It is unfair to say one not speaking on a subject, is as guilty as one not telling the truth about it. The one not speaking has not incriminated himself, while the other has. Maybe in your world they are the same, but on earth, they are not. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

You admit hiding the truth from God's foes. You consider me one of God's foes, so I cannot trust you about anything involving the JWs. You will hide the truth (i.e. lie). I have not hidden anything from you.

It does not matter what i consider you, only what Jehovah does. I have not hidden anything involving the faith to you. Clearly if you can whiz up something from the watchtower 40 years ago, Jehovah's people are not trying to hide it from you, smart guy ;)

We're not a perfect people. Stop looking at the people so much, and test the faith. It's genuine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

This is just f*cked up. If taking the witness stand against a fellow JW, you will plead the 5th and stay silent. That is lying!! And this is why the JWs are a cult.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are definitely a false religion and this proves it. No true religion would purposely hide the truth from ANYBODY.

Not speaking, and lying about a matter are two separate things. All those degrees and you can't tell the difference?

Mar 15, 2010, 19:37

LJ4ptplay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

But you're wrong, it does not say to lie at all. In fact it stresses, if you speak, it MUST be the truth. So it's not telling anyone to lie. It gave the example of pleading the 5th as an option, that would not go against Christian morals, in that setting.

A person who pleads the 5th can now be deemed a liar, for exercising his right to not speak on a subject? Really? How could one lie without speaking? I thought you were smarter than that. But guess not.

You're now coming across pigheaded, quite frankly. And I never would have imagined such.

Wow man. You really are brainwashed. You are beginning to sound desperate about being exposed about your dishonesty.

Typically when someone is asked a question and they plead the 5th, they are keeping silent about something they know for fear of incriminating themselves or someone close to them. Which is what your manual has told you to do. That is being dishonest. You can't deny it.

And every time I have used man's law as an example to illustrate the ridiculousness of your beliefs, you have always rebutted by saying man's laws are imperfect and only God's laws matter.

Shouldn't you be following God's laws if your religion is perfect and the only true religion? In other words, shouldn't you be honest? And if you are always honest, why is it necessary to be "evasive" and "hide the truth". I would think the truth would never have to be hidden if you're honest.

Oh I see, you are allowed to make exceptions for whoever your elders deem God's enemies (i.e. people that expose your religion as being false). That's convienent, don't you think? SMH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe

Hope this helps.

2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream.

Clearly this speaks of the Last days. The mountains is actually not a real mountain. It's figurative. Why? Because it's the mountain of the House of Jehovah. The house of Jehovah is where one goes to worship Jehovah. So it's speaking of those who will worship him, and that worship of him, will be clearly above worship of false gods, or false worship in general. And to it, nations must stream. Jehovah's people fit the bill there without an issue. We are made up of most every nation known to mankind. Moving on.

3 And many peoples(Nations) will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah(true worship), to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” (Learn and obey Jehovah)For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. Moving on.

4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

Now you say he has not done this. But you are wrong. Why? Because he has set matters straight respecting the many peoples (Nations) that have flocked towards his mountain of true worship! And those many nations have beat their swords into plowshares, and spears into pruning sheers, and nation does not life up sword against nation, and neither do they learn war anymore. Who are these ones made of many peoples and nations that flock to worship Jehovah and will not go to war or learn it anymore? Does this people actually exist today?

:)

Jehovah does not exist, yet what he says will happen does? And we're the stupid ones the world says.

Jesus Christ. After dismantling all of your prophecies, this is all you have left? And I went over this in the other thread. You can't use circular logic like this as evidence of a fulfilled prophecy. A group that uses a book as guidance, doing what the book tells them to do, is not evidence of a fulfilled prophecy.

Like I said, with this logic, the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels. Radical muslims are slaying infidels, therefore the Koran is true.

The prophecy will not be fulfilled until the other things happen (i.e. god comes down and kills everyone that doesn't worship him). Unless ofcourse you don't know what "fulfilled prophecy" actually means. Which wouldn't surprise me considering the other prophecies that you claim to be fulfilled.

Honestly dude. How do you convince yourself of these things? Talk about brainwashing. Or are you being dishonest again?

Mar 15, 2010, 21:55

OGKnickfan

The world is not perfect, but there is beauty and love in it. It is only wisdom, compassion and sensitivity that will allow us to evolve into what we should be, spiritually and intellectually. The various religions, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be the resurrection of the lost, "real" Christian faith, which I guess was lost for 2,000 years, until some guy named Charles T. Russel found it, are no different.

Their deeds are not based on perceiving the condition of the world, of all of its sentient beings. Instead, they follow the rules of their organization, on an Earth that already organized us, in ancient times, but which we have second-guessed, to the detriment of every living thing, ever since.

Jehovah's Witnesses dress a certain way, because their organization tells them they should, for no thoughtful reason. They speak a certain way, as KFL has admitted, because they want to belong to one another and receive one another's praise. They look down on others, for the same reason: to build themselves up at others' expense. If you question that analysis, just read KFL's haughty comments on Buddhists. Others go to war for glory. They don't... for glory. They deny their children blood transfusions... for glory. They reject people who change their mind about being a JW, for glory.

He claims they know so much, feel so much, yet LJ4PTPLAY posts multiple videos where they admit pedophiles into their ranks and then cover for them. How much could they know, if they aren't even capable of detecting the black heart of a child rapist? He claims this doesn't happen "now," when the video is, at the earliest, from 2003. These are God's chosen, blind fools, who cannot even detect the heart of a rapist? He says he would plead the fifth in order to protect a JW member from going to prison. I guess that explains why his brethren do the same for rapists.

I think you are not really interested in spirituality, KFL. The fact that you divert attention from your religion, by attacking other faiths, is proof of this. Your religion is superficial in its claims of being special, "we are the only ones that follow the bible." First of all, some of us do not believe your bible is of divine origin, meaning it is worthless as part of an argument of the legitimacy of your church. Secondly, surely God does not limit membership to the true faith to a mere 7 million. Lastly, tell me where the bible talks about 1914, if you interpret the bible word for word. I'm waiting...

At the very least, you have a duty, as a human being, to think for yourself, to respect yourself enough to interpret your bible for yourself. Instead, you allow some man to possess soul and mind, to tell you what it is that you are reading, when YOU read.

I hope you can keep lying to yourself. Otherwise, like my friends, who stay in the Halls because they fear their families will reject them, after lifetimes spent behind a fence of JW theology, when truth bears no title, lies within the hold of no organization, you will suffer greatly.

Again, the world we need to be saved in, and save others in, is this one, not some imaginary paradise. And the future belongs to those that can see that, not people who retreat into a divisive, self-aggrandizing religion.

I think a conversation I had with a witness says it all. She said that she did not like Jesse Jackson, because of his involvement in politics. I pointed out that, if MLK Jr. had followed her religion's perspective on politics, civil rights might have been set back years. She stuck to her BS: preachers should not be involved in politics and when God ends "this system of things," people will be equal. F*ck that.

Mar 15, 2010, 22:34

OGKnickfan

Paul, I have practiced Christianity, probably over ten years ago. I don't believe in it. I will never believe in it. I can respect some of its teachings, many of which most Christians cannot even understand. However, I cannot believe in something that I have no evidence of.

This is why I like many of the Eastern religions, they teach people how to be good, how to grow in freedom and understanding of the world and themselves. It does not use reward and punishment to keep you prisoner, either.

You should give it a try.

Mar 17, 2010, 00:48

Knicks4lyfe

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Wow man. You really are brainwashed. You are beginning to sound desperate about being exposed about your dishonesty.

Typically when someone is asked a question and they plead the 5th, they are keeping silent about something they know for fear of incriminating themselves or someone close to them. Which is what your manual has told you to do. That is being dishonest. You can't deny it.

Yes typically, you are correct. But typically is circumstantial, none the less. That is not enough proof that the person will or is actually lying. And again, keeping silent about something is different from opening your mouth and telling a falsehood, which is actually lying. Keeping silent is just that, staying quiet. And again, it did not tell us to tell a lie. It said, if you speak, you MUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! IF YOU SPEAK!!!! You keep talking down to me as if I am the one lacking understanding of the difference here, when it is you who wants to speak in a circumstantial fashion.

All I have been saying is pleading the 5th, while probably making the person seem guilty of hiding something, is technically not a lie. And seriously, you are alone if you think that a person choosing not to speak is lying. How? HE SAID NOTHING?

Last time. Manual said if a witness speaks, he CANNOT tell a falsehood. So they are Imploring God's people to speak truth. It gave an example of an option to not speak, which then means you don't speak truth or lie, you remain silent. If anything, you could say that is cowardly, or looking out for whoever they may be. That is acceptable. You don't have to like it. But to say a person keeping silent is being untruthful is almost dogmatic. You just wanna be right here , when clearly you have no leg to stand on. YOU ARE WRONG! I know it hurts, but you are. You'll live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

And every time I have used man's law as an example to illustrate the ridiculousness of your beliefs, you have always rebutted by saying man's laws are imperfect and only God's laws matter.

Shouldn't you be following God's laws if your religion is perfect and the only true religion? In other words, shouldn't you be honest? And if you are always honest, why is it necessary to be "evasive" and "hide the truth". I would think the truth would never have to be hidden if you're honest.

Oh I see, you are allowed to make exceptions for whoever your elders deem God's enemies (i.e. people that expose your religion as being false). That's convienent, don't you think? SMH.

First, the elders are not in charge. Jehovah is. They are an extension of his Kingdom on earth. They guide, not set the rules. Get it straight.

Secondly, by speaking the truth, WE ARE FOLLOWING GOD'S LAWS! Lying would break them. However, there is no law in the Bible against CHOOSING TO NOT SPEAK!!!!! And apparently, the same holds true in the United States.

And being evasive to God's enemies has at times been what was appropriate, biblically even. But being evasive, is not the same as lying. You just want it to be, because of your philosophical dogma. But, it's a fail.

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Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Jesus Christ. After dismantling all of your prophecies, this is all you have left? And I went over this in the other thread. You can't use circular logic like this as evidence of a fulfilled prophecy. A group that uses a book as guidance, doing what the book tells them to do, is not evidence of a fulfilled prophecy.

Like I said, with this logic, the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels. Radical muslims are slaying infidels, therefore the Koran is true.

In your mind, you have dismantled prophecy. The same way you foolishly continue to try to equate a person not speaking at all to the person speaking and lying. It's all so you can feel smarter than you actually are with your silly rhetoric, and illogical philosophies.

I'm gonna try and put you on though. This is what you said "the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels". The word "TELLS" signifies a command, correct? Good. On the flip side, Isaiah 2 speaks of future events that will take place, and gives very specific details of what will happen. That is different from a command. So in order for your analogy to stick, you'd have to compare a prophecy to a prophecy, not a command to a prophecy. Since the Koran is not a book of prophecy, it will be very tough for you to do this. This is what makes the Bible stand out. Prophetic word.

And since I can look up and see exactly what Isaiah 2 said would happen, take place, why should I ignore it? Why didn't this happen centuries ago? Why didn't people of all nations decide to worship Jehovah a long time before the worst time period known to man? BECAUSE IF IT DID, THEN ISAIAH 2 WOULD NOT BE PROPHETIC!

Also, prophecy is not always revealed in the same span. It usually takes time to unfold, bit by bit. Which would explain why it all has not happened yet. But if some of it has taken place, why doubt that the rest will? Unless of course, you'd rather be philosophically dogmatic in opposition.

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Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay

Honestly dude. How do you convince yourself of these things? Talk about brainwashing. Or are you being dishonest again?

I see things for what they are, and not for what I wish them to be. Brainwashing? This from the man who has never seen an ape man, and is never going to, but says "That's my ancestors". Yikes

Mar 17, 2010, 02:10

Knicks4lyfe

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

The world is not perfect, but there is beauty and love in it. It is only wisdom, compassion and sensitivity that will allow us to evolve into what we should be, spiritually and intellectually. The various religions, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be the resurrection of the lost, "real" Christian faith, which I guess was lost for 2,000 years, until some guy named Charles T. Russel found it, are no different.

Actually, it was lost for about that long. But Russell didn't find it, Just that Jesus became King in heaven, which meant it was time for him to set up true worship of Jehovah on earth again. Jesus did speak of Jerusalem being trampled on by the nations, UNTIL the appointed time for them was up. That appointed time was up 96 years ago. But hey, you been around JW's enough to hear it.

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Jehovah's Witnesses dress a certain way, because their organization tells them they should, for no thoughtful reason. They speak a certain way, as KFL has admitted, because they want to belong to one another and receive one another's praise. They look down on others, for the same reason: to build themselves up at others' expense. If you question that analysis, just read KFL's haughty comments on Buddhists. Others go to war for glory. They don't... for glory. They deny their children blood transfusions... for glory. They reject people who change their mind about being a JW, for glory.

The bible implores modesty in dress and the like. I'm 6'3 205, built like Tyson in his prime. If I went to a door with a tank top on, and a single woman was to answer, would she think it appropriate I'm dressed that way? How serious would she take my message, likely knowing the bible teaches modesty, and here I am, **** deiseld at her doorway, telling about God's kingdom, basically shirtless? Or what if a sister, well built came to your door with booty shorts and a bottom like Kim Kardashian and a wet t-shirt with a flat stomach and 36 d's, no bra. Appropriate? You gonna take her biblical message seriously? Wise up. Modesty is a good thing.

We speak the same message because we serve the same God, and for his glory, not ours. No different than siblings of great parents would speak of them.

We build each other up, to keep up the fine fight. The world hates us because we have the truth, and it lies in Satan's hands. We go preaching to others for the love of God and neighbor, not at their expense. Why then preach at all, if it were as you say? Just let them remain in ignorance and die.

We don't go to war because someone has to die. That is most inglorious and very uncool.

Blood transfusions go against the law to abstain from blood. Not for our Glory do we obey this, for Jehovah's. I personally have had to deal with this, as my youngest son is a Hemophiliac. He nearly died because I refused his transfusion. But because Jehovah's people have been steadfast in not breaking this law, even at cost of precious life, there is something that is widely being used, and even in a lot of hospitals replacing Transfusions, bloodless surgery. So now, there is no need for a witness to worry of such things, because there is a better alternative. Even non witnesses tend to prefer this over transfusions. Go figure.

We reject those who turn their back on God, because it is a command biblically. Not because we want to glorify ourselves. Jehovah rejects those who turn their back on him, so why would he accept a people who don't do the same? Pretty simple logic, that will probably fly over your head.

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

He claims they know so much, feel so much, yet LJ4PTPLAY posts multiple videos where they admit pedophiles into their ranks and then cover for them. How much could they know, if they aren't even capable of detecting the black heart of a child rapist? He claims this doesn't happen "now," when the video is, at the earliest, from 2003. These are God's chosen, blind fools, who cannot even detect the heart of a rapist? He says he would plead the fifth in order to protect a JW member from going to prison. I guess that explains why his brethren do the same for rapists.

Word, son? Lemme find out I missed the section in pedophiles 1o1. They walking around with certain marks, or tats? Put me on, please! How is one supposed to detect a pedophile by looking at him? If a person becomes a Jehovah's witness, the last thing you think they will do is rape a child, or murder someone. Who on earth can detect a pedophile? You serious? Who am I suppose to consult, Hannibal Lechter? Now, you can gripe all you want, and rightly so about cover ups. ALL parties involved should be dealt with. But unless you know something the rest of us don't, quite with the preemptive detection stuff. No way of knowing.

I was baptized in April 08. That information was given to me shortly before then. So before that, I can't tell you how it was dealt with. Was not a JW's. I can only speak of what I know now.

And when did I say I would plead anything? Show me, please.

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

I think you are not really interested in spirituality, KFL. The fact that you divert attention from your religion, by attacking other faiths, is proof of this. Your religion is superficial in its claims of being special, "we are the only ones that follow the bible." First of all, some of us do not believe your bible is of divine origin, meaning it is worthless as part of an argument of the legitimacy of your church. Secondly, surely God does not limit membership to the true faith to a mere 7 million. Lastly, tell me where the bible talks about 1914, if you interpret the bible word for word. I'm waiting...

Divert attn from my religion. If I wanted to do that, I would never say we are God's chosen people. All that will do is draw attn, smarty. And once you say that, you must be able to show why it is that God chose your faith, vs the others. To an objective audience, and audience seeking truth, this can be done. To philosophical, dogmatic know it alls, it's almost useless. But Jehovah says everyone must get the chance at hearing the truth before he brings the end. Therefore, when he does, they will not be able to cry foul when the end for them is near. They will have themselves to thank. And only themselves.

And you're finally correct on something Biblically! Jehovah does not limit membership to 7 million. He is giving all living a chance at membership! It's just that only 7 million have accepted the invitation!

The Bible does not mention specifically the year 1914 at all. However, it does explain prophetic years and times to detect and expect some prophecies. For instance, in the book of Daniel, we're able to see exactly when the messiah would appear and die. It does not say 29 ce and 32 ce, but if you peer into the method used, you would get 29 ce as the arrival, and 32 ce as the cutting off.

I will use another post to explain this thoroughly.

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

At the very least, you have a duty, as a human being, to think for yourself, to respect yourself enough to interpret your bible for yourself. Instead, you allow some man to possess soul and mind, to tell you what it is that you are reading, when YOU read.

In acts 8, a proselyte was trying to make sense of what he was reading concerning Jesus (who he did not know existed) and couldn't. Phillip was brought by the Spirit to him, to explain what he was reading and who it referred to, and what must be done to observe what he was reading. Upon being made to understand what he was reading, he immediately got baptized. Point being, he had to be enlightened. Once he was, he was off to the races. Jehovah did say he would teach his people his ways, and he uses people to teach people. No different than what someone taught you about these so called Hunter Gatherers you speak of. That was not of your originality, someone taught you about it, and you ran with it.

And I know the difference between being TOLD something, and being TAUGHT to understand something. No man tells a JW anything. God's word teaches us all.

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

I hope you can keep lying to yourself. Otherwise, like my friends, who stay in the Halls because they fear their families will reject them, after lifetimes spent behind a fence of JW theology, when truth bears no title, lies within the hold of no organization, you will suffer greatly.

Unlike your friends, I stay in the organization because I recognize what's real. Only friend I need is God. He is real. If all of my family left Jehovah, pity them, I'm stayin. Why? Because it's the truth. And if you don't have the truth, you have the lie. No matter how well dressed up it is, it's still a lie.

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

Again, the world we need to be saved in, and save others in, is this one, not some imaginary paradise. And the future belongs to those that can see that, not people who retreat into a divisive, self-aggrandizing religion.

Imaginary paradise? Jehovah has already put in place the pieces for the paradise. He has organized people from all nations in love, worship and peace! If that is not part of paradise, what it? Yet you use words like divisive, when you were just saying how we all parrot the same things! C'MON SON! Jehovah's people are the most UNITED PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH!!!!! All over the world, Same lessons. Unity. Same message, Unity. Same doctrine, Unity! Be hard pressed to find unity as such in a small household, let alone GLOBALLY! Even some of the most avid haters of my faith have been a bit in awe of how organized Jehovah has things, in a world of chaos. It is utterly amazing how unified his people are.

Divisive? How preposterous is that!

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Originally Posted by OGKnickfan

I think a conversation I had with a witness says it all. She said that she did not like Jesse Jackson, because of his involvement in politics. I pointed out that, if MLK Jr. had followed her religion's perspective on politics, civil rights might have been set back years. She stuck to her BS: preachers should not be involved in politics and when God ends "this system of things," people will be equal. F*ck that.

According to the Bible, believers in God should not be involved in worldy politics, considering the enemy is in charge of the world, and chooses who he wishes to empower to run it. It's not a coincidence when they tried to make Jesus King, he ran and hid from them. And when Pilate asked where his kingdom was, he said it's no part of this world. He did those things for a reason. In this world, no matter how noble a persons intentions, people will never be equal. Just the way it will be. Any person involved in governmental politics is trying to basically do what Jehovah says he is only capable of doing. And that's properly being able to govern mankind. Man cannot govern himself. The more he tries, the more he fails. Period.