Steve Dave wrote:Question: since the puck came out of the crease prior to the goal, what is the rule for an opposing team's player being in the crease, not allowing the goalie to attempt a save?

I think with the amount of Penguins players in the crease, there would be no case for goalie interference as long as a Flyer didn't take out Vokoun. But say Vokoun came out and only a Flyer was in the crease and he hindered Vokoun's chance at making a save it would be No Goal.

Ultimately, its Ref's discretion how they call it... they could say that there is no way he could have exited the crease, or could have said that an extra orange sweater in the crease actually makes it harder to score, not easier.

Its the Pens own stupid fault for defending the net and puck instead of man or sticks. Take the 2 minute penalty to grab the puck and throw it out of the crease and at least give your guys a chance to prevent a goal.

Thats not a 2 minute penalty, its a penalty shot, but it may have been a better option.

penscup wrote:While it may have seemed like he was standing there watching and doing nothing, he was actually trying to find the puck in the mass of bodies that had formed in the chaos, which was virtually impossible. How can he make a play on the puck when he can't find it and it is bouncing around like a pinball?

then it's very strange how his 3 teammates were able to find waldo and get themselves back towards the goal. also, the puck was somewhere inside the crease. everyone knew that. it's not a prerequisite that you know its exact coordinates before you start heading in that direction. and as far as the flyer blocking his way, maybe that would be a good defense if he was actually making some effort to move his body.

if there's any defense for vokoun (which there isn't, really), it's that he figured it was going to be a frozen play or a goal at any second. his body language 100% shows that anticipation.

pfim wrote:Don't drift out of the net. Don't sit there and hold Talbot's hand while the entire team tries to cover for you. How about getting in front of someone or pushing them out of the crease? You're facing your own freaking goal, take a penalty. Anything but standing there then flopping to your belly making snow angels.

There are five penguins closer to goal than the goalie at that point, don't tell me he did nothing wrong.

While it may have seemed like he was standing there watching and doing nothing, he was actually trying to find the puck in the mass of bodies that had formed in the chaos, which was virtually impossible. How can he make a play on the puck when he can't find it and it is bouncing around like a pinball? He was also blocked by Flyer players from getting back into the play at two separate points further preventing his ability to attempt any sort of save. Nothing he could do once that sequence descended into chaos.

The point is to not get caught way out of position like he did and Vokoun had no chance once that happened. I'm pretty sure Vokoun would agree that he screwed that one up royally.

A LOT of goaltending is positional regardless of where the puck is or isn't and Vokoun was way off his angles against the Flyers and also unleashed when he needed to be chained. Any time there are a mass of players behind you as a goalie, it's a train wreck that the goaltender is very lucky to escape without one in the net.

penscup wrote:While it may have seemed like he was standing there watching and doing nothing, he was actually trying to find the puck in the mass of bodies that had formed in the chaos, which was virtually impossible. How can he make a play on the puck when he can't find it and it is bouncing around like a pinball?

then it's very strange how his 3 teammates were able to find waldo and get themselves back towards the goal. also, the puck was somewhere inside the crease. everyone knew that. it's not a prerequisite that you know its exact coordinates before you start heading in that direction. and as far as the flyer blocking his way, maybe that would be a good defense if he was actually making some effort to move his body.

if there's any defense for vokoun (which there isn't, really), it's that he figured it was going to be a frozen play or a goal at any second. his body language 100% shows that anticipation.

On that play Vokoun was trying to get back in the net and Knuble ran him over. There was already a mass of bodies in the crease but Vokoun was making an effort to get back which Knuble decided stop him from doing by running him over.

penscup wrote:While it may have seemed like he was standing there watching and doing nothing, he was actually trying to find the puck in the mass of bodies that had formed in the chaos, which was virtually impossible. How can he make a play on the puck when he can't find it and it is bouncing around like a pinball?

then it's very strange how his 3 teammates were able to find waldo and get themselves back towards the goal. also, the puck was somewhere inside the crease. everyone knew that. it's not a prerequisite that you know its exact coordinates before you start heading in that direction. and as far as the flyer blocking his way, maybe that would be a good defense if he was actually making some effort to move his body.

if there's any defense for vokoun (which there isn't, really), it's that he figured it was going to be a frozen play or a goal at any second. his body language 100% shows that anticipation.

On that play Vokoun was trying to get back in the net and Knuble ran him over. There was already a mass of bodies in the crease but Vokoun was making an effort to get back which Knuble decided stop him from doing by running him over.

like i said before. seconds 4 thru 7 in that youtube. that doesn't match your description at all

He'll bounce back strong, that's what veterans do. I was shocked at his pathetic effort against Philly; the very reason RS acquired him was so that meltdowns like that would not happen. RS had to be steamed at the overall outcome of that game.

I always thought that Vokoun was underrated and if he played on a team that scored more goals, he'd shine. I hope he plays tonight like he used to always play against the Pens.

On a side note, Vokoun is starting the fish flop method. Reminds me of Johnson's play last year way too much.

My thoughts exactly. Currently I'll attribute this to too much home cooking after being away from home for so long.He needs to start and play well on Thursday or there will be a storm brewing in his and everyone else's minds.

llipgh2 wrote: I am concerned with his slow side to side movement, though. Hasn't he had hip/groin problems in the past? Maybe he's not 100%.

This. Vokoun has looked slow laterally. It's one of Fleury's greatest strengths, which makes it all the more noticeable. Most of his issues seem to stem from it. I hope he works it out, and soon. If we are noticing it, opposing coaching staffs surely are, and they will continue to exploit it.