Why does tige always slope the nose of their boats downward towards the water. It just seems like if you have weight up front and it would be very easy to dunk the nose.

Yeah, I hadn't noticed that before this picture...I wonder how these sit in the water, when I see pictures/videos of picklefork boats, it seems like most of them slope forward or are at least not sitting far off the water. The RZ hull does appear to still be quite large and deep towards the front approaching the bow though, which may keep the nose up

The Tiges haven't always sloped down though, the nose of my 04 22v does not and sits fairly high in the water

Why does tige always slope the nose of their boats downward towards the water. It just seems like if you have weight up front and it would be very easy to dunk the nose.

Pretty much all wakeboats have a nose that slants down. Some its more obvious than others because of gel coat schemes and overall design of the boat. And some boats' nose slant is exaggerated when its on the trailer.
the slant compensates for the small amount of inevitable bow rise.

If your driving correctly and not power turning, the weight doesnt matter.

Thanks for posting that Kat! So amazed at what Correct Craft has done.....taking a design to implementing it....with such amazing precision simply is amazing. We are hoping to have the boat wrapped up this weekend so we can use it for the Conway Christmas Boat Parade....but depends on the weather and getting some final parts in place. But is going to be an amazing journey!! Here are some photos of the swim platform / custom pad they put on it today. Thanks to all the crew at Nautiques for the TLC they have put into this project.

Pretty much all wakeboats have a nose that slants down. Some its more obvious than others because of gel coat schemes and overall design of the boat. And some boats' nose slant is exaggerated when its on the trailer.
the slant compensates for the small amount of inevitable bow rise.

If your driving correctly and not power turning, the weight doesnt matter.

Come on, look at those Tiges compared to the Malibu or Nautique; its very clear the drooping nose is a design element they are using and not just graphics or a trailer exaggerating it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfski

Thanks for posting that Kat! So amazed at what Correct Craft has done.....taking a design to implementing it....with such amazing precision simply is amazing. We are hoping to have the boat wrapped up this weekend so we can use it for the Conway Christmas Boat Parade....but depends on the weather and getting some final parts in place. But is going to be an amazing journey!! Here are some photos of the swim platform / custom pad they put on it today. Thanks to all the crew at Nautiques for the TLC they have put into this project.

[QUOTE=MattieK27;1650288]Come on, look at those Tiges compared to the Malibu or Nautique; its very clear the drooping nose is a design element they are using and not just graphics or a trailer exaggerating it.[/QUOTE=MattieK27;1650288]

The RZ2's bow when sitting at the dock not underway sits higher the the A-22 and the Xstar. CC doesn't even have a comparable model to make that statement. They have no pickle Bow boat to compare bow curve with. If you want to compare bow curve with CC and Tige use the Z1 or 22Ve or 24Ve.

Not to mention the deck curving down on any boat might not even matter if the hull is designed to accommodate it. X Star, A-22, RZ2, if the hull is designed to ride a certain height or way it wouldn't matter if they curve or not. Looking at them on the trailers is in no way a good comparison every boat sits differently on every trailer, and every trailer is designed differently, so we must sit them in the water the way they are naturally floating and take a side shot of every model idling to see what really sits lower in the bow.

Come on, look at those Tiges compared to the Malibu or Nautique; its very clear the drooping nose is a design element they are using and not just graphics or a trailer exaggerating it.[/QUOTE=MattieK27;1650288]

The RZ2's bow when sitting at the dock not underway sits higher the the A-22 and the Xstar. CC doesn't even have a comparable model to make that statement. They have no pickle Bow boat to compare bow curve with. If you want to compare bow curve with CC and Tige use the Z1 or 22Ve or 24Ve.

Not to mention the deck curving down on any boat might not even matter if the hull is designed to accommodate it. X Star, A-22, RZ2, if the hull is designed to ride a certain height or way it wouldn't matter if they curve or not. Looking at them on the trailers is in no way a good comparison every boat sits differently on every trailer, and every trailer is designed differently, so we must sit them in the water the way they are naturally floating and take a side shot of every model idling to see what really sits lower in the bow.

Huh? All I am saying is those boats clearly have a rake to the ends of the boat, with both the bow and stern tapering off from the central section. I am not saying its a negative, its just their "style." The bow on those boats might sit higher than comparable boats in the water, but there is a definate drop on the shear line. I dont care if its a pickle fork, normal bow rider, etc. (Even the Z1 demonstrates a sloped nose) If you disagree, I might suggest looking into vision tests...

To clarify again, I am not questioning performance at all, just making a statement about the look of the boat.

The pleating looks good but come on dont you think that makes the seat much more likely to come apart. I guess if you are going for looks and not quality it makes sense? Is the pleating single or double stiched?

The pleating looks good but come on dont you think that makes the seat much more likely to come apart. I guess if you are going for looks and not quality it makes sense? Is the pleating single or double stiched?

Kinda like patterned carpet and a 1000 individual skull & crossbones on the sides J/K

I really like that all white VLX with the blue metal flake stripe. However, I will say that Bill's new 230 may be elevated into the same class as Travis' Bandit. That's a solid looking whip Mr. Porter.

Doent that still make the seat weaker. I would think a solid piece of upholstery would be stronger than a bunch of "welded" pieces of upholstery. I am pretty sure the graphics and the carpet in a Nautique are a option.

i like all the boats,but i'm not going to hate on any brand. competition makes all the boats better and we the customers are the better off because of it. p.s. i don't think the owner of any 2011 wakeboat should be called a beggar,after all 40k isn't chump change.HAPPY BOATING!

Come on, look at those Tiges compared to the Malibu or Nautique; its very clear the drooping nose is a design element they are using and not just graphics or a trailer exaggerating it.

How much did the custom gel coat set you back from Nautique? I was unaware they would do that, looks very sharp.

I agree the new tiges look like they have more slant. (i think it looks pretty badass) Im just saying that this is something thats incorporated into all ski/wake boats to account for the small amount of bow rise. its very subtle but its there on almost all the boats. certain design features make it more pronounced, for example the new tiges. You can see it a little better if you compare a picture of the same boat on plane, and just sitting in the water.

Anyone besides me see how that Malibu steering wheel is going to suffer? With only 1 mounting point, I can conceive someone pulling on the top side of the steering wheel and damaging it. Seems like the steering wheel gets grabbed for stability all the time when resting and some rollers come buy as someone is walking around.

Otherwise, these boats all look way sweet! The Nautique interior looks way too busy and crowded to me.

Bryan
I think XTP bought the rights to the illusion when Metcraft went under and XTP does Skiers Choice towers. That is my understanding. Nice addition to the Moomba for sure. Would be a cool option to have on any Skiers Choice product.

the new tiges have 360 service plus 3 years of scheduled maintenance FREE. 3 YEAR bow to stern warranty. 5 year gelcoat blister warranty. 5 year tigetouch screen warranty. lifetime hull replacement."tige offers the only complete hull replacement warranty in yhe industry.if you ever experience a structural hull failure or delamination at any time while you own your boat.tige will replace it with a new boat at no charge." this is right out of the 2011 brochure. looks like some people need to do their research.

i like all the boats,but i'm not going to hate on any brand. competition makes all the boats better and we the customers are the better off because of it. p.s. i don't think the owner of any 2011 wakeboat should be called a beggar,after all 40k isn't chump change.HAPPY BOATING!

The idiom works for this case. I would assume the R20's price point is a bit less than the fully loaded bigger boats.

Tigé Limited Warranty**
· 3-year Bow-to-Stern Warranty
· 5-year Gel Coat Blister Warranty
· 5-year TigéTouch Screen Warranty
Lifetime Hull Replacement
Tigé offers the only complete hull replacement
warranty in the industry. If you ever experience
a structural hull failure or delamination, at any
time while you own your boat, Tigé will replace
it with a new boat at no charge.**
While we’re proud to offer this warranty, we
are even more proud of the fact we’ve never
seen a Tigé structural hull failure. But if it ever
happens, unlike most manufacturers that simply
patch hulls, we’ll ensure you can always enjoy
the trusted integrity of a solid new ride.
**

Nice gear. One thing I do notice though (and it has been for a while) is the height of the biminis, particularly on the wakesetter. At that height it ain't going to provide much shade on the driver unless you only ride between 12.00 and 1.00pm. It may not be too applicable in the U.S. but down here the sun is pretty feirce from about 9.00am to 5.00pm during the summer and without a decent cover you fry. Are they adjustable?

Tigé Limited Warranty**
· 3-year Bow-to-Stern Warranty
· 5-year Gel Coat Blister Warranty
· 5-year TigéTouch Screen Warranty
Lifetime Hull Replacement
Tigé offers the only complete hull replacement
warranty in the industry. If you ever experience
a structural hull failure or delamination, at any
time while you own your boat, Tigé will replace
it with a new boat at no charge.**
While we’re proud to offer this warranty, we
are even more proud of the fact we’ve never
seen a Tigé structural hull failure. But if it ever
happens, unlike most manufacturers that simply
patch hulls, we’ll ensure you can always enjoy
the trusted integrity of a solid new ride.
**

I say take the X25 graphic off and that boat is slick. Also screw any black gelcoat or fiber on the inside of the boat. Looks good but damn will heat up. I am one of the few that actually likes the crazy power tower. Also saw the Tige's at Fortes and will tell you as far as price point the R20 by Tige is an incredible deal and sharp looking boat. When it warms up going to check out the wake as well.

The www.chattwake.com 2011 Axis A22 is in the process of being built. I'll post pics up next month when I get the boat in and some more when the wetsounds system, z5, XS power batteries, and other goodies are installed.

Did I miss something. Why would you go from a nautique to a Axis. Nothing against the Axis boat as I am sure their nice but I wouldn't put them in the same class as a Nautique.

I would guess that it has to do with being just a good of a WAKE boat as the Nautiques but at nearly half the price. He seems to buy a new boat every year and if you buy a new 80-90k boat every year that is a lot of depriciation you are paying every year. Just a guess though.

Every pic I see of an Axis wake is clean. And ... after all ... these are wake boats. Give a clean wake and ... without any terminal flaws elsewhere ... pretty much go to the top of the class.

It looks like the appeal of the rear walk-though is spreading. (My boat has one and it’s one of my favorite features. I’ve always been mildly surprised by the criticism of rear walk-throughs.). It looks like each of these makes has one or something like one:

230, RZR, RZ2, R20, ~VLX, ~Z1, ~X25.

That’s a smart-looking tower on the X-25. Thing kinda looks like Tron.

I think he posted something a while back about switching from CC to Axis. Sounds like the wake is the most important thing to him and at least double the price willing to bet the CC is not worth it and willing to bet the Axis is close and possibly a better wake for his riding. Most of us guys could care less about a ton of bling hell I drive an 02 x star there is more bling on a new axis than I got and I love my boat. However, next purchase I will look hard at Axis 20. Trust me would kill for a 230 or 210.

Well, there were a lot of reasons why I switched to Axis. The short version is that I'm in a position, and have been over the past 4 years, to get a boat at cost from the local Mastercraft, Correct Craft, or Malibu/Axis dealers. For the past three years, I went with a SANTE 230 because, in my mind, it was my best option for size, options, reliability and resale. However, the prices have gone up, year after year, on the 230's - so much so that I just couldn't justify the expense. Don't get me wrong, I made money on every 230 I owned, and they were great boats, but it was getting harder and harder to sell them. I sold my '10 to a guy from Atlanta who paid 82k in cash for a used boat. Don't think for a second I don't know how lucky I was to get rid of my '10 for that price at the end of the season. (My friend has a new '11 that he can't sell in the 70's right now).

Thing is, for me to get into a '11 230 - that was as well equipped as my '10 - and add on all of the extras (wetsounds, etc.), I would have had to turn around and dump everything I got and made off of the '10 back into the boat and borrow another $40k+ - and then to get my money back out of the '11, I'd end up having to sell it in the high $80's at the end of next season. I'm just not comfortable with the investment anymore, and I'm not confident that depreciation won't start killing these higher end boats. That's not a knock on CC, it's just a simple opinion I have developed as to the future of the used boating market.

Also, there's no doubt that the interior of a 230 is nicer than the interior of an A22. However, I did not really use or appreciate may of the expensive creature comforts that cost so much in the 230. For instance, the LINC system caused a huge cost increase in the 230 team edidtion boat. The LINC's gps is nice, and I used it on occasion at night, but I can buy a garmen for pretty cheap off of ebay. What I disliked about the LINC system is that it took forever to navagate between screens, turn the radio up or down, select stations or cd's, set perfect pass, etc. I just wanted to go back to the days of my '07 wakesetter and '02 XStar where everything was easy, simply, and instantaneous. Another problem I had with the '11 SANTE 230 was I just did not like the new tower design. It's all personal preference I know, but I didn't like the fact that I had no tower choice other than the FCT5 (I'm not sure it will accomodate wetsounds 485's with the z5 mounted up.

Another issue I had with the 230 was how it performed when you added extra weight. With the zr6, It got out of the hole easily, unless I put a ton of ballast and people in the boat, but I always had difficulty keeping the wake clean when the boat was weighted heavy. Now, I've had three 230's. I've been riding for 8 years. I have a lot of friends in the industry, and I ride with a lot of experienced riders. I'm not an idiot, and I know how to move weight around in a boat. I tried many many difference setups in my 230 in an attempt to dial in a pro sized wake. I can tell you, in all honesty, I had trouble keeping the wake from washing at 23-25mpg at anything over 70' behind my 230's when I added anything over 1200 lbs. Now, I'll admit that I don't ride in butter all day long, and that there were occasions where we seemed to have a perfect mix of people, ballast, and riders who were comfortable at 70', and the wake behind the 230 when loaded at that length was money. However, I honestly got tired of having to fight to get a clean wake when I had certain advanced / semi-pro riders try to take sets behind my boat with a ton of weight in it. Perhaps some of you with 230's have the boat dialed in in a way that I could not figure out. I have friends with 230's still, so if you have figured out how to keep a clean wake behind that boat at 80' with over 1500lbs in extra ballast without having to go 25-26mph, let me know and I'll pass on the information.

All of this being said, I loved my 230's. I'm not super advanced. I can throw my share of inverts, grabs, etc. I was happy with the wake that the 230 produced with stock ballast and 6-8 well placed bodies. It was clean, had a nice shape, and was a comfortable riding width. I also loved the surf wave behind the 230. It's amazing! I had some engine, vinyl and gelcoat issues with my 230's, but those were all fairly minimal and nautique fixed everything without question. You're simply going to have some issue with any new boat you buy, that's just a fact.

This past year, I spent some time on a few A22's and A20's. I was really impressed with those boats. They had everything I wanted in terms of creature comforts (docking lights, interior lights, snap out carpet, underwater lights, spinner racks, big motor option, tons of ballast, heater, big roomy layout, z5, etc.) I like how the tower folds easily behind the windshield. I like the fact that the A22 mirror is not mounted to the damn windshield. I got to ride behind the A20 and A22 as well and was blown away by the wake. The wake out of the box that the A22 produces is very well shaped, has a nice width, nice transition, etc. It's just a fun wake for most riders to hit. On several occasions, we threw 2k over the factory ballast, wedge, and plug-n-play in an A22 and the wake stayed crisp and clean at 80' at 23mph. This may be hard to swallow, and I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, but honestly I think the wake behind the A22 is more consistent and mantains a better shape than the wake behind the SANTE 230.

The looks of the A22 appeal to some and may not to others. Mine's going to be solid black with no graphics at all. I'll have a black z5, black wetsounds 485's, blacked out trailer, etc. I'll have the vandal edition custom carpet in the boat, custom steering wheel, and some other goodies. Trust me, the boat is going to look sweet. No, it's not going to have all of the bling that my 230 had. No, it's not going to have the exact same level of fit and finish. However, I was willing to give that up to save thousands and thousands of dollars. Lets put it this way, I could probably buy an A20 with the money I saved.

For me, personally, the boat is the right fit. It's worth the money. It will be paid off. I'm not nearly as worried about depreciation. I'm getting all of the core options I want and need. I don't feel like I'm overpaying for options that I won't use. Importantly, I feel like I'm putting my money in a company that's actually focused on wakeboarding as a sport, and is going to strive to continue manufacture a core, rider oriented, affordable, wakeboat.

Some people just won't understand my boat choice, and that's ok. Everyone is entitled to their own options and preferences. All I can say is that I'm 100% happy with my choice and I hope those who buy other boat are as happy as I am.

I think your being very fair and honest. Hey if you get time would PM me your thoughts on the wake behind the A20. I hope to compare the A20, X20, and RZR this summer. I like being able to keep a boat in my garage. The 22 might even be possible.

Well said Chatt, I'm a Nautique owner and have always been a die-hard advocate. If I bought new, I don't think a Nautique would be on my short list. Tige, Axis and Epic continue to step it up every year and Nautique's prices just continue to increase. The competitors performance & quality are too close to justify the rising cost difference. I still love the boats, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I can appreciate your honesty in your write up. The true test will be time. Let's see how you feel after one year of use. This will be where the rubber meets the road.

Since you get such great deals on boats, my gut says you wont end up keeping the Axis. Let's see if you maintane your honesty then. I look forward to your post then.

FYI-I too bought a new SAN230 last year and could easily get the money out of it today if I chose to sell it. I wouldn't sell this boat for anything else on the market. If you do your research and truly understand how a boat is made, then you know Nautique is the leader in quality and construction which does justify the price. All you have to do is look at the car market. Why do people buy Mercedes, BMW etc. Cause their better built. Do they come with a premium price. Of course. Is it worth it. Ask the millions who continue to buy them.

People keep going back to Honda, Toyota, and Nissan over and over again as well. So I guess those are good vehicles as well. I have had upper tier cars and will never own another one. You get jammed every time you take it in for service. If you got the cash and sounds like you do that 230 will suit you well. His reasoning is well thought out and most boat owners cant justify 80k plus in something they use a few times a week with the family. So going without all the extra bling and fancy features is fine. What happens when he comes back and says this was the best decision he has ever made and could not be happier with his purchase. Or you so sure its just going to rattle apart and things fail and fly off the boat going down the lake?

Truth be told, I hope he does come back in a year and says this was the best decision he has every made. The industry does need a reality check and competition is always good in business. It keep everyone honest. If Axis is all that at that price then all that is going to do is get others to step up their game.

I fully intend to report back and keep everyone informed as to my experience with the A22 - just as I have done in the past with my other boats. However, I feel compelled to say on the front end that I did not make this decision without a tremendous amount thought and research.

Does a 230 hold its value particularly well for an ultra high end flagship boat - hell yeah it does, but the fact is that all ultra high end wakeboats currently being sold on the market are getting hit hard with depreciation due to the immense initial price tags associated therewith. Unless you can get some sort of killer deal, buying a 230 has gotten to the point of buying a z06 corvette. It's going to cost you 80-90k on the front end, and you're crazy if you think you're going to be able to sell that boat for anything near what you paid for it in a few years - especially if all sorts of new bling bling features keep getting piled on the new models. You have to ask yourself, who's buying these $90k boats anyway? In my experience, its the people who can afford, and want, the hottest, newest, most tricked out, thing on the water and can afford to just cut a big check (my last two 230's sold to professionals who did not finance a dime). When your two year old boat is no longer the most baddest ass blinged out thing available, you quickly start to lose the draw of that particular genre of customer. And, if you happen to find an more average joe who wants to spend 70-80k to buy a used 230, who can't quite swing the 90k for a new boat, good luck getting that guy the 80-90% financing he needs on a used boat. I just see a much much broader market base for a used A22 than for a used 230 at this point in time. I'm not hating on nautique at all, they make killer boats, I just don't think I, me, just myself here, will ever be able to justify spending that kind of coin again on a wakeboat, much less assuming the huge risk of trying to sell a used 80k+ boat in this economy - especially since gas is going to be like $4-$5 a gallon next season.

I know people who work at the plants and/or are involved directly in the repair/construction of malibus, Axis, nautiques, mastercrafts, and several other boat brands. Yes, a SANTE is a very very well built boat. I had no MAJOR issues with any of my 230's. Has nautique had some issues over the past three years with quality control on a few items, yes - just like every other boat manufacturer. There have been issues with the zero off system (all 3 of my 230's had bugs), fuel pumps, vinyl (a few seats pulled at the seams in all 3 of my 230's and in all of my friends 230's), throttle positioning sensors (the tps went out in my '08 at around 50 hours), FCT3 cracking (mine did on my '09), etc. Trust me, all boats will have issues. It's the absence of MAJOR issues that signifies a well built boat. Again, I had no MAJOR issues with my 230's and I agree that nautique makes some of the highest quality boats on the market. Does paying twice the price for a 230 than an A22 get you twice the quality or mean that you will have half the problems? I honestly don't think so.

I've been out on numerous A22's and one A20. I have a friend who has put hundreds of hours on his A22 with no major problems. My friend Matt has an A20 that he ran hard all season with no major problems. Were there a few bugs here and there? Of course there were, but nothing that couldn't be fixed quick, cheap and under warranty. I can tell you from my experience in and around the Axis boats, I did not see the interior pulling or tearing on any '10 boats. I did not see hear any rattles on boats that had well over 100 hours. I did not see or hear of anything MAJOR going wrong that worried me.

Don't get me wrong, there will be an adjustment for me going from a 230 to an A22. It's not going to feel the same. My suspicion is that with the A22 I'll have to get used to a boat that's a bit smaller than my 230. I'm going to miss all the storage I had in my 230 for sure. I'm going to miss the walk through rear sunpad and the lean back jumpseat. However, once I adjust to the A22 (just like I adjusted to my old XStar, VLX and 230's), I'm not going to notice those things anymore.

There may have been a point in my life when I wanted people to think I was successful/rich due to the fact that I pulled up in a 230. Well, I've matured and I could really care less whether I pull up to a tournament in the most expensive boat on the water. If some people are going to think less (or more) of me just becaus of the cost of the boat I own, then those people aren't worth my time anyway. What's important to me now is owning a boat that makes me happy, that makes my wallet happy, that produces a kick ass wake, and that looks good in solid white or solid black. After a hard, long, well thought out decision, based on first hand knoweldge and experience, I think the A22 fits the bill for me, just me here, I'm not talking about EVERYONE.

All I'm trying to do here is share MY EXPERIENCE in an effort to help offer some input to other people who are similarly situated to me. Don't take offense if you own some other boat. If some other boat makes you happy, then you made the right choice for you and I'm happy that you're happy.

Someone from Axis needs to grab a copy of this thread to share with potential customers!

Good thread and look forward to reading more. I've always been a MC guy, 30 plus years, and currently have an 02 x-star but I wouldn't be able to justify the price of a new x-star when there are choices like the A22 on the market. I got the chance to get behind the A22 last summer and loved it.

Where is your home lake? If memory serves it's somewhere in TN. I boat mostly at Cumberland. I would love to hook up with you at possibly Dale Hollow one weekend this summer and we ride all weekend behind my 230 and your new Axis. That would be awesome. We could then share pics and our weekend experience with everyone on WW.