... and giving myself a thread to bump in the future to save myself time typing the same tired arguments.

A consolidated thread! Good idea! I may steal this one myself in future.

"So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

"You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

"Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

"Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!

Why is it every time someone comes around here and goes on the tired rant about, concrete, weapons, multiple attackers, aids needles, lava, all being present in "REAL" situations and thus nullifying "MMA style" training, they always train themselves in something far less realistic and softer?

Assuming you on average train 2-3 days a week for 1.5hour sessions at a time, and you spend that time...

Doing Katas:Why? How is this productively preparing you for knife wielding thugs who want to rape your wife? You are dancing around a room, placing your hands and body into positions that are completely antithetical to how you'd place them in a real life situation.

Practicing Self Defense techniques compliantly or half speed at best: Why? Your opponent isn't going to stand there with his arm lunged out in front, while you politely twist his wrist, or execute a series of strikes to all of his 'vital areas' (nose/groin/throat/eyes). He's going to take a really hard swing at you, and in that split second you are either going to get hit or not get hit, and the fight will continue from there. Put on a mouthguard, a cup and hell even a facemask if you want to and man up. If you never increase the intensity to that of an MMA style sparring match, you will never come close to the intensity of that real "life or death" situation you are claiming to prepare for, and you will fail no matter how many wristlocks and nipple twists you pretend to do in class.

Hitting BOB (Body Opponent Bag) dummies: I've always hated these things. They aren't sturdy enough like a heavy bag to do a real workout on them, and they are missing limbs unlike throwing dummies meaning they don't simulate a human being well enough. They are pretty much useless all around outside of looking kind of cool in your gym. You stand there for 20minutes pretending to hit a rubber dummy in the face and ribs. You've actually found a bigger way to waste your training time than pretending to hit a real person.

I like using the bobs, the one I have has spent several years in the garage in high heat and cold, so the rubber on it is like iron now lol. I'm ok with weight bags too but I don't have the room. As far as katas and compliant training, I thought those were just for muscle memory, but I'm no expert on that. I think the mods should make a style vs. Style sub forum since these threads have effectively beaten one of these:

I'll always repect TMA and think they're needed to develop aspects of arts, but I can't tolerate dudes who'll say MMA is only meant useful for sport. I just want to break them of their denial that either they're afraid of getting hurt, getting too old, or playing make believe. I can see however if there are TMA that are simply fun, but don't go and say that its more effective than mma training.

I also just can't justify how people do katas other than doing for some type of meditation. I wanted to slap my wing chun friend when he said he spends many classes doing simply the sim niu tao.