I know we're talking about MLB in the Te'o thread but I thought this blog entry from Kevin Siefert was interesting and it seemed to create a good opportunity to discuss draft prospects at MLB that aren't named Te'o or Ogletree (although we can obviously discuss them too):

If the Bears intend to find a long-term replacement for Brian Urlacher, one prospect who has caught eyes during practices this week is Florida State's Vince Williams. From the Scouts report: "Florida State's Vince Williams (6-foot-0½, 247 pounds) is big and strong. He really shows up when they do any type of hitting and striking. He did a nice job of slipping blocks when he should slip blocks, did a good job of taking them on when he should take them on. He's playing with a chip on his shoulder.

"Sometimes guys emerge as leaders at the Senior Bowl, and this year Williams is one of those guys. The other players are rallying around him when he makes a play. You can see there's a little more emotion and fire with Williams. On Wednesday, you could see that he's a guy that everyone looks to on this defense to light a spark.

"He's not a great athlete laterally, but he ran well on a straight line, and that was surprising because we weren't sure if he could do that."

Pioli also notes he projects Ogletree as an every down inside or mike linebacker. I still believe he's best as a will, but can see ILB.

Josh Norris on Twitter

Quote:

9. Alec Ogletree, MLB, Georgia. Tremendously talented athlete at 6-3 and 232, and should be an every-down NFL inside 'backer or middle 'backer. Has the skill and ability to contribute immediately all defenses as well as special teams. Jumps off the tape and could have the most upside of any underclassman in the draft. But some off-the-field issues will need to be studied before giving him a final grade.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:15 am

Rus

Hall of Fame Inductee

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:22 pmPosts: 4317Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: MLB prospects

There are several that would upgrade the Vikings defense substantially. Te'o, Ogletree of course...there's also Jarvis Jones (who will probably go in the top 5 easily), Kevin Minter that make up the four I think could be pretty good and upgrade any defense. (I will ignore all of Te'o's silly drama...as far as controversies go, that's a whole lot better than if he tested positive for steroids or speed...or had a long record as an unrepentant alcoholic...and guys like that get drafted in the first/second round almost every year.)

After those four, I like Jon Bostic in the third or fourth round. I think he's probably a sleeper pick. His pass coverage skills aren't anything to brag about, though, and I don't know if he's really a huge upgrade over Audie Cole (run stuffer with some good instincts for picking off passes...but not enough speed to drop back).

Sean Porter seems like a decent fit for Alan Williams's Cover-2. Good coverage guy, people have been comparing him to Von Miller (which is a great complement). If the Vikings snag him in the second or third, I'd be pretty enthused...but I don't know if he really projects to a middle linebacker. OLB/DE crossbreed...he's a heck of an athlete but I haven't heard anything about how instinctual people say he is. I only saw Texas A&M once last year, and he seemed pretty good, but it's hard to say. You want your mike to be good at reading offenses and with very solid instincts more than just a great athlete.

Bummer for the Vikes that Anthony Barr went back for his senior year at UCLA. That guy is really good.

Brinkley really always projected to more of a strong side guy, I thought. Kevin Reddick is basically this year's Jasper Brinkley.

Linebackers are important. Too many Viking fans for way too long have kind of seemed to feel that the team could do fine by taking linebackers near the end of the draft and just rotating guys through or signing free agents. The running game and tight ends are a huge part of most modern offenses. But not only that, having guys with great instincts in the middle makes everyone around them better. It's hard to explain, but all one has to do is look at the best defenses and the worst defenses. The best defenses all have their linebackers making most of the tackles, the worst have their defensive backs making most of the tackles. If your linebackers are just that good, you can force teams to go long...and a higher percentage of those passes aren't completed. That's basic football 101.

I disagree with @ECStoner on these rankings: http://bit.ly/UY4VT6 But he shows the work/his reasoning. Can't argue with that, good stuff.

Josh Norris on Twitter

Thanks for the link. It's definitely an interesting take but you have to wonder if an analyst who lists 6' 1", 228 Arthur Brown as his top LB and considers him a "plug and play" middle linebacker might not be trying a little too hard to set himself apart.

Overall, it was a good read.

Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:15 pm

Demi

Commissioner

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:24 pmPosts: 23761

Re: MLB prospects

I just want someone who can mooove. Or at least drop back without turning their back to the line of scrimmage and sprinting. Even if they are undersized and struggle to shed blocks!

Georgia LB Alec Ogletree was recently charged with a DUI, according to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk.

"Last weekend, my client Alec Ogletree was pulled over for speeding and a lane violation in Arizona," agent Pat Dye told PFT. "After the officers smelled alcohol, they conducted tests and also cited him for DUI. Although Alec regrets this incident terribly, he is thankful that there was no accident and that no one was hurt. Because this matter is still pending, we cannot comment further publicly at this time." This is not Ogletree's first off-field incident, as he was suspended four games last season after failing a drug test. This only raises more questions the projected first-rounder will have to answer throughout the draft process.Source: ProFootballTalk on NBC Sports Feb 16 - 10:40 PM

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:59 am

Eli

Hall of Famer

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:52 pmPosts: 7946

Re: MLB prospects

But... he runs a 4.45 40 at the combine and is drafted in the top 10.

Same old NFL. Nothing ever really changes.

Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:52 am

HardcoreVikesFan

Hall of Famer

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:28 pmPosts: 6601

Re: MLB prospects

Haven't heard much discussion about Kevin Minter or Jon Bostic. I would be very happy with either of those players in the 2nd or 3rd round.

_________________A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.

Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:24 pm

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37219Location: Chicago, IL

Re: MLB prospects

mrc44 wrote:

Hasn't he been suspended 4 games as well? Sounds like someone I don't want on our team.

Agreed. I hope the Vikes stay away from him. His history suggests he's a bad headline waiting to happen.

LSU ILB Kevin Minter received just a third-round grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Board before declaring.

Keep in mind the advisory board can be very conservative with these grades. ESPN's Mel Kiper believes Minter will be a late first- to second-round pick, while NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah has mocked Minter to the Steelers at No. 17. "Me and my family, we knew I had a chance to be in the first round," Minter said.Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune

Alex Brown had this to say about Kevin Minter prior to the LSU's match-up against Clemson this week:

"Filling hard downhill and initiating contact with the blocker by firing his sudden, powerful hands to snap his opponent backward at the point of attack, Minter works off blockers with outstanding hand usage and shouldering technique. What enables Minter to be so productive and impactful at Mike linebacker is how quickly he reads, reacts, and steps to flow. Rarely ever taking a misstep in his run/pass read, Minter locates and tracks the football exceptionally well for an inside backer. Moreover, Minter isn’t just a hard hitting, 2-down run thumper; timing up back-to-back stunts for a sack and tackle for loss, and opening his hips to the sideline and running down throws to the perimeter, Minter showcased 3rd down ability versus the pass as a coverage defender and stunting linebacker. This game-changing backer could very well be an early declarer for the 2013 draft and top round draft choice."

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:15 am

MrPurplenGold

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:46 pmPosts: 3776

Re: MLB prospects

dead_poet wrote:

Not familiar with this guy. Anyone watch him play?

Kevin Minter - LB - Player

LSU ILB Kevin Minter received just a third-round grade from the NFL Draft Advisory Board before declaring.

Keep in mind the advisory board can be very conservative with these grades. ESPN's Mel Kiper believes Minter will be a late first- to second-round pick, while NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah has mocked Minter to the Steelers at No. 17. "Me and my family, we knew I had a chance to be in the first round," Minter said.Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune

Alex Brown had this to say about Kevin Minter prior to the LSU's match-up against Clemson this week:

"Filling hard downhill and initiating contact with the blocker by firing his sudden, powerful hands to snap his opponent backward at the point of attack, Minter works off blockers with outstanding hand usage and shouldering technique. What enables Minter to be so productive and impactful at Mike linebacker is how quickly he reads, reacts, and steps to flow. Rarely ever taking a misstep in his run/pass read, Minter locates and tracks the football exceptionally well for an inside backer. Moreover, Minter isn’t just a hard hitting, 2-down run thumper; timing up back-to-back stunts for a sack and tackle for loss, and opening his hips to the sideline and running down throws to the perimeter, Minter showcased 3rd down ability versus the pass as a coverage defender and stunting linebacker. This game-changing backer could very well be an early declarer for the 2013 draft and top round draft choice."

I've watched him play and he was the heart and soul of that LSU defense. Now, with that said, I don't think he is a 1st round LB. He is a solid, but unspectacular MLB. He tackles well, but I think he will be a liability in coverage, he'd be an upgrade over Brinkley, but that's not saying much. I don't think I would want him on the field in nickel coverage against RB's and TE's.

Ogletree has a laundry list of off-the-field worries, including a DUI arrest just before the Combine. He's likely to light up drills when the linebackers work out on Saturday, but the character concerns will cost Ogletree money.Source: CBS Sports

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

I continue to struggle with why Teo is considered such a great LB prospect by many. I've watched the guy play, watched his highlight videos, and I just don't see why people think he's a special player. A good player, yes. A solid player, absolutely. But a 1st round draft pick? I don't see it.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:17 pm

J. Kapp 11

Hall of Famer

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pmPosts: 6552

Re: MLB prospects

dead_poet wrote:

Teo-40: 4.81 (first attempt). Not very explosive.

Interesting.

That's the exact same 40 time Audie Cole recorded at last year's combine.

_________________Go ahead. I dare you.Underestimate this man.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:22 pm

HardcoreVikesFan

Hall of Famer

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:28 pmPosts: 6601

Re: MLB prospects

Jon Bostic: 4.61 officially. (He had a 4.50 unofficially at one point).

Draft him Minnesota!

_________________A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:57 pm

Rus

Hall of Fame Inductee

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:22 pmPosts: 4317Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: MLB prospects

Just to point out...the one thing about middle linebacker is that in most schemes, you don't care as much about speed as you do about instincts/leadership/intangibles.

However, in Alan Williams's defense (and Frazier's before that...all the way back to Tony Dungy himself...and I'm sure Singletary has a big say here), it's a big plus if they've also got good wheels to drop back into coverage. So the Vikings may not target a guy that other teams have higher on their draft board and may be rated higher...or they may target an OLB with speed/strength/instincts that they really like and move him inside.

Ogletree would be a good choice...but...his off the field stuff is going to make him drop. Maybe right into the Vikings hands, but maybe he'll drop further. Jelani Jenkins could be a possibility, he could slide inside maybe in Williams's scheme. Kevin Minter might be a possibility, too...he's a heck of a good linebacker. Bostic has good speed and agility, most people thought that would be a problem for him prior to the combine from what I've read. He's probably worked himself up into a second or third round pick. I think he's fairly underrated, and if the Vikings go the WR route in the first (Te'o having a terrible combine + Ogletree's off the field problems = tough decision), he could be a steal in the second.

Still, if the Vikings are stuck with Brinkley again, I don't think they're completely screwed...but Jasper right now is a player with a fair amount of athletic talent who makes a lot of dumb mistakes. He can work on those, but his instincts are off way too often and teams shouldn't be able to run right up the gut whenever they want on the Vikings, even if Williams is a little over the hill. A good middle should be able to stuff the run better and not lose so many yards. He gets out of place, then runs back down to make the tackle (and he certainly makes a fair amount of those, but sometimes you want quality over quantity there). He doesn't seem to read the offense very well. It's a lot of inexperienced player type of stuff, but it's also stuff that guys learn when they play in high school. Some guys can do it, some can't. Those who can are middle linebackers. Those who can't play outside.

I'm gonna go ahead and put this out there...Arthur Brown is Ray Lewis. I know that's ludicrous to compare, but that's how I see AB in NFL.

NFL Philosophy on Twitter

Arthur Brown puts up strong numbers

Quote:

After a shoulder injury withheld Kansas State linebacker Arthur Brown from both the Senior Bowl and the 2013 NFL Combine, he took part in a much-anticipated full workout at the K-State Pro Day on Tuesday.

The No. 15 overall prospect and top inside linebacker in the latest rankings from SB Nation's Dan Kadar, Brown was certainly the headliner of the event and drew a crowd of NFL scouts.

Brown did not disappoint, running between a 4.58- and 4.62-second 40-yard dash and posting a 32.5-inch vertical jump. Perhaps most impressive, Brown got in 21 reps on the bench press, helping to assuage any concerns over the health of his shoulder.

In the latest mock draft from Kadar, Brown is slated to be selected by the Green Bay Packers with the 26th selection in the first round.

We already blurbed that Brown weighed in at 236 pounds and recorded 21 bench press reps, a notable number since some of have speculated he is dealing with a shoulder injury. Brown's forty time ranged from 4.58 to 4.62 seconds and during the workout he "was sensational, showing a quick change of direction and losing no momentum altering his angle of attack," Pauline writes. "He was fast in every direction and really solid in ball drills." We consider him a top 10 talent, although he might be selected much later.Source: TFY Draft Insider

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Brown didn't work out at the Combine due to a shoulder injury. He proceeded to "blow up" his Pro Day workout, according to NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline, tipping the scales at 6-foot-1, 236 and repping 225 pounds 21 times on the bench press. He was reportedly "sensational" in drill work. Writes Pauline of Brown, "We are hearing late-first round is now a possibility."Source: TFY Draft Insider Mar 18 - 3:12 PM

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Brown didn't work out at the Combine due to a shoulder injury. He proceeded to "blow up" his Pro Day workout, according to NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline, tipping the scales at 6-foot-1, 236 and repping 225 pounds 21 times on the bench press. He was reportedly "sensational" in drill work. Writes Pauline of Brown, "We are hearing late-first round is now a possibility."Source: TFY Draft Insider Mar 18 - 3:12 PM

I hope the Vikings take a good long look at him.

Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:06 pm

Texas Vike

Hall of Fame Candidate

Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 amPosts: 3488

Re: MLB prospects

Interesting read through and through. This last section addresses the notion of rolling with a rookie MLB.

What’s the story? The Vikings opted to let last year’s starter Jasper Brinkley move on. That created a very important opening.

It’s unlikely the Vikings will make much if any push at 34-year-old free agent Brian Urlacher. So now it looks as if the draft will be the place to find a possible playmaker (LSU’s Kevin Minter? Notre Dame’s Manti Te’o?) to sandwich between Chad Greenway and Erin Henderson.

Wanted most: a guy who can play all three downs, show solid coverage skills in the nickel and be an instant communicator.

What Frazier said: “Without question, we need leadership. That guy has to be an extension of our defensive coordinator, Alan Williams. He’s got to be able to not only run our defense, but communicate, get guys lined up, earn the respect of his teammates. … It can be scary [to turn that over to a rookie]. But it depends on the rookie. You have to measure the maturity and how far along that guy is and make your call.”

The Tape Never Lies: Alec Ogletree lacks the willingness to be consistently physical

Quote:

When a traditional NFL scout rolls the film of Alec Ogletree’s games, he’ll probably become quickly upset. Ogletree, an inside linebacker in Georgia’s 3-4 defense, is somewhat allergic to physicality.

He’s not particularly fond of offensive linemen combination blocking him at the second level, which is evident by his reluctance to use his hands to avoid the blocks. At times, he’ll just stand and get blocked out of the play. Just watch the SEC Championship game against Alabama. On some running downs, it’s like he wasn’t even playing as he’s moved out of middle of the field like a truck cleaning a snowy road.

Yet some consider him the top inside linebacker in this class. He’s probably not for some scouts, such as the aforementioned traditionalists. They’re looking for a certain toughness, a specific physicality, and most importantly, an all-in willingness to defend the run. He’ll have to bring all three traits to the pros if he plans on making a living playing football.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:02 pm

Mothman

Defensive Tackle

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 amPosts: 37219Location: Chicago, IL

Re: MLB prospects

dead_poet wrote:

The Tape Never Lies: Alec Ogletree lacks the willingness to be consistently physical

Quote:

When a traditional NFL scout rolls the film of Alec Ogletree’s games, he’ll probably become quickly upset. Ogletree, an inside linebacker in Georgia’s 3-4 defense, is somewhat allergic to physicality.

He’s not particularly fond of offensive linemen combination blocking him at the second level, which is evident by his reluctance to use his hands to avoid the blocks. At times, he’ll just stand and get blocked out of the play. Just watch the SEC Championship game against Alabama. On some running downs, it’s like he wasn’t even playing as he’s moved out of middle of the field like a truck cleaning a snowy road.

Yet some consider him the top inside linebacker in this class. He’s probably not for some scouts, such as the aforementioned traditionalists. They’re looking for a certain toughness, a specific physicality, and most importantly, an all-in willingness to defend the run. He’ll have to bring all three traits to the pros if he plans on making a living playing football.

I hope the Vikings stay FAR away from Ogletree. There's way too much risk there to pull the trigger and draft him.

Spielman has already extolled the virtues of Ogletree IIRC, so if he's still there at #23 I'd be shocked if the Vikes pass on him.

His character concerns are a big deal, and I hope if the Vikes do take him they find a way to bring him along slowly rather than quickly. That's hard to do when you spend a 1st on a guy and you have no incumbent, but maybe the Vikes can shuffle things around or find a vet in FA that can help bring him along.