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I rather think its maturity to actually find the right time and place for expressing your affections. Again, since when has she ever felt the sting of rejection? Natsuru isn't budging, but he doesn't refuse her advances. I'm not at all putting words in your mouth, you just fail to see that her actions aren't appropriate and calling characters like Akane on not 'finishing the job.'

The problem I see with this is that the anime shows that the only opportunity to make the right time and place to express their affections in front of the other girls. Of course, in reality, you could have one-on-one opportunity time with Natsuru without interruption. But of course, this isn't reality and any chance for one and one time is always interrupted. I feel both Akane and Shizuku know that they have to express their emotions in the open (at least in front of the other girls) to get Natsuru to respond. Both know the right time and place to express their emotions won't come from being passive. With this, Shizuku took the initiative and Akane didn't. I myself don't see Shizuku's kiss as inappropriate, but again I guess this is a matter of opinion.

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Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates

Something I pointed out in my earlier posts is that being more assertive has worked for Shizuku only. Look throughout the episodes, and Akane does many different things, from hugging him, to rubbing her breasts on him, we could go on and on a point by point basis here. In episode 8, who did we see in that Kaede filled mind-control fog? Akane. However, who do we see actually having an kind of effect here from her advances? Shizuku.

Again, I'd blame this on Natsuru's denseness. In Natsuru's mind, I don't think he connects Akane's actions as being assertive. Instead, he finds them as being a good friend and partner and trying to protect him. And I wouldn't take seeing Akane as in the Natsuru's Kaede-filled mind as anything deep. I feel he just needed an answer to Akane's question on what his type was, and Akane happened to be the first person (other than Kaede) to appear in his mind.

If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, I apologize in advance. Also, a question, just for curiosity's sake, do you have a favorite out of the girls, Altima?

Your whole notion of reality or not, plausible or not. If you don't like the direction of the show stop watching, especially when you call the later half of the series a red herring. I mean ok the girl you like isn't the focus, it's not the end of the world, and it's not bad writing if your ship sinks.

aye! hot already? hyahahaha
I agreed, but you know, Altima-bro just like to debate about something, not like he seriously liking/shipping some char at all

I find the statements crude and lacking any real depth other than his ship has been sunk. Shizuku isn't actually my favorite character, that would fall under mikoto, who is/was the girl I was rooting for, although that has no pertinence to this discussion. The point is the writing, is A) adapted from a continuing source B) naturally some scenes will be farfetched, but that's you know STORYTELLING, I'm pretty sure every time narusegawa punched keitaro he didn't actually become a moon man. Your expectations are set for something that isn't solely set in reality and the characters themselves actually feel real which is what counts at the end of the day.

Yeah that was my bad there. I meant to say, "to see her not for her beauty, but for herself' in the quote you used for this. I meant that I didn't see that part of hr coming out at all. It seemed artificial. By putting "The mummy hunter became the mummy," I meant she found love while playing with him and found it was more than playing soon enough.

Aaah, okay. Sorry, I didn't understand this part in the first version. I don't understand though why it "seemed artificial", though? Is it so unbelievable that Shizuku would find her interest in Natsuru growing over time, until she realized at the end of ep7 that she was seriously jealous? There is one bit of backstory about her which has been indicated in ep8 (the silhouette of a girl in the sky, with Shizuku talking about revenge) which would additionally explain her reactions towards Natsuru. I guess we'll get there in 11 or 12. But even without it I wouldn't see why it would be "artificial".

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Well I'm sorry if you thought that doing that cost you. I rather think its maturity to actually find the right time and place for expressing your affections.

That's not the point. It's about communicating earnest intent and determination. It's not like Natsuru was in any kind of relationship, so (especially as a girl) kissing someone is perfectly fine in my book. It would be different if he turned away, said "stop it" or told Shizuku afterwards "I don't want you to do that anymore". However, he never did that.

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Again, since when has she ever felt the sting of rejection? Natsuru isn't budging, but he doesn't refuse her advances. I'm not at all putting words in your mouth, you just fail to see that her actions aren't appropriate and calling characters like Akane on not 'finishing the job.'

Why would it be inappropriate? It would be inappropriate if he refused it, but he didn't. You seem to have quite a prude sense of modesty. Or a very young-idealistic view. I hope you don't take this as patronizing on my end, but I do recognize alot of my own ideals from my younger years here, so I can sympathize with you to a degree. But my opinion on this has changed noticeably.

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So yeah, I'll fault Natsuru on having to be sexually accosted to feel anything. Moreover, Akane is turning to these trains of thought lately because of the incredulous nature of these two. Its a wonder she hasn't capped him in the nuts after seeing him practically melt in Shizuku's kisses, but he can't be bothered to focus on her date. All this AFTER it was her face he saw through that web of mind control. Its just ridiculous to me that just a few kisses could do more to shatter this mind-control induced resolve. That last scene in episode 8 was a pure red herring there if they go into the route.

Why? If there's something I learned in my life, then it is that determined action also on the sexual field will win out over idealistic modest restraint. Because the active part demonstrates determined interest and a _need_, where the passive guy tends to come over as hesitant and not invested enough.

Without going too much off-tangent, with "it cost me" I was referring to an experience at the end of my school days before army and university: There was a girl I was really interested in, and with who I was always on flirty-cordial terms, but she had someone else following her around, too. I thought it was improper to intrude on that, and even though I had a chance to kiss her and drive away with her from the final party, leaving the others behind, I didn't. I thought it would be improper and unfair. On the 20-years-later party we met again, and she told me that she was prepared and hoping to formally get together with me had I been a trace more aggressive, but in the end, she felt that the other guy simply needed her more, even though she'd have preferred me back then - had I shown the same dedication. And girls want to feel needed. She's happily married to Mr. B now, by the way.

I wish you good luck with your idealistic view. It sounds oh so familiar to me. You'll need it.

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So I'll say that I really don't find it good that she had to go that far just to see him react. It really did seem to spark of bad writing and character favoritism.

I can see a healthy dose of realism. At least, I can strongly relate both to the situation and the assumed outcome (presuming that Shizuku WILL make the race somehow). For some reason you strongly insist that Shizuku's aggressive moves would not pay off in real life, and we'll simply have to agree to disagree. PARTICULARLY someone as appealing and attractive as Shizuku would have huge chances, because things will be very different for Natsuru once he realizes that she REALLY loves him. Words wouldn't be able to do the job remotely as well as kisses and skinship.

I'd say they made the change for Shizuku so very subtle because she does _not_ really change at all. She retains all her personality characteristics (which is unusual, Akane literally changes into her opposite, Mikoto also becomes very aggressive, and Natsuru - well, no comment). Therefore, retaining her looks makes sense... and the hair color change is just enough to indicate whether she's in Kämpfer mode or not. Nothing more than that.

Why is Shizuku's Kampfer mode not as visually different compared to the other members ?

She basically looks the same overall save for a bit of white in her hair that makes her have a "angry cobra" effect.

Well, visually the only ones that change their features that dramatically are Akane and Mikoto if you exclude Natsuru for the moment.

If Natsuru was originally a girl, his Kampfer mode would probably not be noticeably different; all of his changes seem to be of the male -> female variety, rather than hair color/personality, etc. that seems to happen to Akane and Mikoto far more than the "average Kampfer" from what we've seen.

Also, the white Kampfers don't seem to change much at all; their before/after's look identical from what I saw in episode 9; as to personalities, I assume their personalities stay relatively constant like Natsuru/Shizuku (but who knows, we don't really know how they are before)...

If I had to speculate, I'd guess that there's a possibility that the Kampfer mode brings out characteristics that a person subconsciously wishes to have exemplified normally. This would explain Akane and Mikoto who would probably want to be more aggressive than they are normally. Even before Akane met Natsuru, she probably didn't want to always be seen as the meek studious girl, and Mikoto's always wanted to be able to take Natsuru. This theory works a lot better for Akane who is much more pleased with how her Kampfer mode is more able to push Natsuru along into doing things for her, but Mikoto seems to be able to do that anyways for the most part without her Kampfer mode (i.e. naked apron greeting). Shizuku on the other hand seems more content with how she is as a person, so her Kampfer mode would not be too dissimilar from her normal self.

As for Natsuru, he probably always wanted to be able to be closer to Sakura, so subconsciously maybe he wanted to try being a hot stylish girl in order to be friends with her >_>, but that's a fairly speculative conjecture.

Realism? That is quite an unfair statement to make. In reality, there is a good chance she'd be told to back off at least somewhat. Something I pointed out in my earlier posts is that being more assertive has worked for Shizuku only. Look throughout the episodes, and Akane does many different things, from hugging him, to rubbing her breasts on him, we could go on and on a point by point basis here. In episode 8, who did we see in that Kaede filled mind-control fog? Akane. However, who do we see actually having an kind of effect here from her advances? Shizuku. I'll admit that it is partly Natsuru's fault for being such a wet blanket, and I laughed when Kaede said he was more like a girl. But Shizuku is clearly getting favoritism where we obviously see another character getting the limelight. You can't even really call this a refreshing outcome or something new, its really just throwing something together and duct taping parts that wouldn't normally stick.

When we are talking about realism we are talking about realism in terms of the context of the show, the realism you discussed is the realism in real life. In the series Natsuru is portrayed as a Sakura obsessed "block out everything else" sort of guy and obviously he wouldn't react to Akane's advances since for the most part she is going after him in a extremely passive way considering how aggressive her competitors are.

Heck I fail to understand how you can compare shows like Kampfer and try to use "real life" to justify how the show doesn't make sense and that this is how people should react when a set of events happen. Hell I have never seen a sex changing male who becomes a magical girl that shoots fire in real life but i don't see you complaining about that aspect of the show...

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Also, I don't find it any less realistic considering his nature to give Akane a kiss than letting Shizuku kiss him. If someone actively tells you to kiss them, then the depths of your denseness would have to rival a neutron star to not see where you stood with that person. But that's obvious I guess, seeing as Shizuku's kisses weren't enough to get him to understand. He'd probably have to be told flat out.

Again in the context of the show Natsuru's denseness is acceptable and you know what he is dense so what? It's a show and it has built his character this way.

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So I'll just say that they made that scene with Akane while they were drunk or something and went back to favoring Shizuku in the plot. I won't even get into the slowly weaning the yuri into Mikoto and Akane(that totally made me wallbang, but hey, maybe they'll get together. But Christ, I hope they don't become Shizuku's pets or something. Dear god no.). Well, I'll just see what happens from here.

Since you like comparing shows with the real world, obviously in the real world directors direct while they are drunk and wallbanging is an acceptable means of reaction to a anime which you don't agree on.

I'm not trying to pick a fight but the way in which you analyse and assess a show to me is flawed, by not watching in the context of the story and i've provided my arguments for that point.

Location: Perth, Western Australia - Down Where The City Meets The Sea

Age: 28

really enjoyed the latest episode and im pretty interested into how it ends (please no traditional Harem ending unless they are making a second series). dont get me wrong im for Shizuku x Natsuru all the way but after theat i also really like Akane and Mikoto and hope they do get a bit of Natsuru before the series ends.

as the series progresses i really cant see this going to be a Kaede friendly ending. and its either going to be Shizuku or Akane who will end up with Natsuru.

may be...
*opened spoiler pic*
Holy-shit! Naked Apron all the way!! HYAhhahahahahahaha
where do you get that?, from official website? or fanfic creator? but why Sakura clinging to Akane?, isn't she set her eyes in Natsuru girl form?