Contact don_dunstan

Nicely said RTT, but there's no point getting angry with the green-left climate nutters because they're not intelligent enough to understand your argument.1771D

It's the way that people automatically go into rabid dog mode if you say something that's even slightly anti-greenwash, it's really quite strange. It never even occurs to some people - even very intelligent and educated people - that possibly their position could be proven to be wrong in the long term. I used to be a firm believer in everything greenwash years ago, I read all the books and bought the tee-shirt. Now I'm just a bit older and more cynical, that's all.

There are limits to how much I believe in the opposing position, obviously. I for one would not allow the completely artificial shortage of gas in Australia to become an excuse to start fracking everywhere; I don't think there's enough evidence on what it does to the water table to allow it.

Interestingly, Malcolm has been in the media today with a speech telling everyone that coal wasn't dead and that it's always possible new coal plants will be built in Australia in the future. I think it's a sign of his desperation that he's changed tack on this; this isn't the real Malcolm Turnbull speaking - this is someone whose days in the big chair are very much numbered and he's lashing out trying to find traction on anything other than his leadership.

I love watching the LNP implode, it's like watching Mexcians froth at the sight of a DL lead Freight Razz Kind RegardsIsrailfan

Even the LNP's best friend in the world - the Institute of Public Affairs - is taking the chance to sink the boot into the current Prime Minister. As per an opinion piece in today's Financial Review by Andrew Clark:

Seventy-three years after Menzies founded the Liberal Party on the basis of that Institute of Public Affairs report, the current head of the IPA, John Roskam, says the "issue is what is his [Turnbull's] definition of what the progressive centre means." He answers that Turnbull's interpretation of the term "centre" means "bigger government" and an "excuse for higher taxes and bigger regulations. "The Turnbull government's economic policy stance contrasts with "everything he said he was going to do before becoming Prime Minister. He spoke about the evils of the mining tax. Now he is embracing something worse than that and that is the bank tax."

Contact don_dunstan

...You can't be a hundred percent sure of being on the 'right side of history'; the green-wash might get exposed for what it is one day....don_dunstan

Seems yet again science is on trial. "Green-wash" is that the current counter-reformation term?
Those that ignore the lessons of history...

...green energy should have taken the place of coal/non-renewables as the market determined that they were economically feasible - not because of regulation. The green-wash over carbon has been particularly painful for those people in Australia who have lost jobs because of extortionate energy prices or who are struggling just to heat their houses in winter.don_dunstan

Coal fired power stations and servicing infrastructure were mostly funded by governments. Is that market forces?

Electricity prices were rising exponentially for years to get to the crazy state they are now. To single out renewables is total BS. Then there's gas where free market forces now see overseas customers getting our gas cheaper than here!

Contact Groundrelay

Coal fired power stations and servicing infrastructure were mostly funded by governments. Is that market forces?

Electricity prices were rising exponentially for years to get to the crazy state they are now. To single out renewables is total BS. Then there's gas where free market forces now see overseas customers getting our gas cheaper than here!Groundrelay

So why is the gas price so important?

Here's a clue from the AEMC website

"A more efficient gas market improves the power system’s ability to integrate renewables like wind and solar. Gas-fired generation is able to provide fast-start backup to complement these newer forms of generation. "

So when the no wind ( or there is too much) and the sun is not shining you need another source of power. Perhaps we should be using more reliable power sources like coal.

Contact 9034

Seems yet again science is on trial. "Green-wash" is that the current counter-reformation term?
Those that ignore the lessons of history...Groundrelay

Where is the undeniable evidence of climate change? As RTT/Shane went to great lengths to discuss on the last page, most of the things that were predicted 10 or 20 years ago are not happening - even looking at Al Gore's film from 11 years ago you realise just how alarmist and wrong he's turned out to be; apparently we're told that 'climate science has moved on' since An Inconvenient Truth which is why it's not being used any longer.

We have a name in this country for predictions that turn out to be false: BULLSH*T.

Contact don_dunstan

"You want evidence of coal fired power stations under construction in China, India and Middle East, Google it! I also worked in India and saw them for myself as it one project was linked to mine. Google Dubai Coal power, RAK coal power, Oman coal power....Abu Dhabi is building a massive nuclear power station."

RTT said"China and India and others are rolling out wind and solar, because its the right thing to do and no one said it wasn't. What they won't do be be so stupid as to compromise the supply, reliability and cost to consumers and industry. It is well published in the Pro Wind Farm Literiure that 20-25% is the typical upper limit for wind generation on a typical thermal based grid. Those with high % of Hydro can go alot higher and basically match the hydro output MW for MW. Hence Tasmania could in theory get to around 1500-2000MW of installed capacity for wind. Meanwhile SA which has zero hydro."

" rolling out wind and solar, because its the right thing to do and no one said it wasn't." Why is it the right thing to do? When previously you said "I call it a band wagon for a reason in that its still not proven. " As for the rest of the paragraph, two straw men post filla... to try and impress the ignorant

RTT said"There is nothing wrong with the use of wind power in Australia (and I support it) as long as it doesn't affect the grid reliability and used as an excuse to shutdown base load power. SA has gone too far and now paying the price for their stupidity"

RTT said"Roof top solar also has its place, but even if you do not get a subsidy from the govt to install its still subsidised compared to a commercial large scale operation as land and other costs are not factored into it. "

More filla

RTT said"For every sea level rise video there is one proving the opposite. I have watched the claims of one south pacific island showing video's of buildings underwater but 2-3m, but meanwhile my parents who live on the water less than 30cm above the king tide mark for 40 years have not seen any change. Likewise Abu Dhabi where most of the Emirate is less than 0.5m above sea level has not seen a change in the coast line" So you've just refuted all the peer reviewed scientific evidence on this issue, amazing. Put that theory up for peer review and see how it goes.

RTT said"There are many in the northern hemisphere quietly praying for global warming as it would make most of the northern EU, Canada and Asian countries far more productive agriculture wise, however this is not a justification to promote climate change. "

And that will replace the existing food bowls in Asia, Europe, the Americas and Africa, you are joking aren't you.

This is the best one

RTT said"Regardless of other industries moving in which is perfectly fine, Australia is still being de-industrialised by they left extremists pushing RE at any costs. . "

So the deindustrialisation of Australia is being caused by the construction of RE, really, I would have thought trade liberalisation and the removal of tariffs beginning in the 1980's might have had something to do with it, but apparently not. It's all a left wing renewable energy conspiracy.

Aus. gets about 14 or 15% of its energy from renewables, so Germany, which gets about 30% of it's energy from renewables, must be an industrial grave yard.

Somebody had better tell the Germans that.

So a hundred and something nations poured over the scientific evidence and made agreements at the Paris Climate shindig to limit emissions for our own good,where as President Trump thinks it's all a Chinese conspiracy, they are all wrong. According to you its a left wing conspiracy. faaarrrrkk

RTT said"As I mentioned previously, you can resolve some of the CO2 emissions from coal by simply building new ones that emit significantly less and use decent coal, not the crap in eastern Vic. That solves two issues at same time."

Clean coal is a load of bollocks and you know it.Put in a gas reservation policy, and gas is the natural transition fuel like it was originally intended to be whilst the technology develops,

RTT said

." While they likely be the last generationof coal fired power stations? Likely yes because in 30-40 years time technology in others sources will have had time to evolve, be viable and commerical. In the mean time if you believe wind and solar are so good, disconnect from the grid and install them on your house and stop leaching off coal while at same time talking it down "

Funny no one in private enterprise in this country is prepared to build a coal fired generator unless they get a large subsidy from the Gov, and the only people advocating that are a few LNP luddites. Why is that I wonder?

As for me being a parasite, I pay my power bill, how is that parasitical.

With Government inaction and the price gouge of the east coast gas producers, the power industry in this country may well be entering a death spiral. Technology advances in production and storage will mean it's cheaper for many to go off grid, forcing the power companies to charge more, to continue the gouge, thus forcing more off the grid.

Contact wobert

I note now Nick Greiner is calling for a "Pax Romana" between Tony Abbott and Malcom Turnbull, ah yer, nice try Nick, but Tony wants the big chair back so bad, and if that means destroying the Turnbull leadership, then so be it!

Contact bingley hall

I note now Nick Greiner is calling for a "Pax Romana" between Tony Abbott and Malcom Turnbull, ah yer, nice try Nick, but Tony wants the big chair back so bad, and if that means destroying the Turnbull leadership, then so be it!

Kind Regardslsrailfan

There's way too much bitterness... did you read what Jeff Kennett said the other day? Asked what he thought of Malcolm Turnbull he said that the thought of him made him want to drink scotch before 9am...

It's a battle to the death now for the wet and dry factions of the LNP.

Contact kitchgp

Melbourne's dams haven't been above 80%-full since 1997, when they dropped below that figure, having been almost 100%-full in 1996. Currently about 62%-full.kitchgp

Adelaide's are at about 60% too but the last week or so would suggest we've moved into a traditional winter weather stream - it's been wet and cold all over southern Australia recently, I think everyone has had their heaters cranked up haven't they!

Sixty percent is no cause for alarm, after all, we pretty much all have our expensive 'emergency' desalination plants in capital cities across the nation now... Victoria, especially with the worlds (is that still true?) biggest desalination plant by capacity. Although given how much power it sucks down it might run somewhat intermittently on wind and solar energy in the future...

Contact don_dunstan

Paul Kelly (the Australian's editor, not the singer/songwriter) writes an opinion piece in today's paper telling us that Nick Greiner will have the skills as the new Liberal Party national president to heal the rift between Tones and Malcolm:

Greiner knows the collapse of personal trust between Turnbull and Abbott is pivotal to the crisis. He knows further that no solution is possible without some restoration of trust. The core of the crisis is personal and the political differences cannot be confronted without prior attention to the personal rift... While Abbott would have no choice but to accept a senior cabinet post, Turnbull is unpersuaded that any such move would be tenable. Some Liberals fear that elevating the Turnbull-Abbott rift to the cabinet table would only damage the government even further. Abbott has ruled out political retirement and the government’s needs to avoid a by-election anyway.

I think they're clutching at straws if they think that Tones will be cajoled into a senior cabinet post and that will solve the problem - he wants the big chair back, nothing less.

Contact lsrailfan

Could we have a 2nd Female Prime Minister, word going around the traps that Julie Bishop may make a run for the top job, if they decide to spill against Turnbull??

Kind Regardslsrailfan

But tony (and his small band of followers) believe that he has a god given right to the top seat (and believe everyday Australian voters agree with them)
So if Julie Bishop does contest and win, tones will turn on her as well.

All in all, they are demonstrating to the public what a load of idiots they are.

Any challenges within the party will only lead to one winner, and he ain't a member of the Liberal party.

Contact Donald

But tony (and his small band of followers) believe that he has a god given right to the top seat (and believe everyday Australian voters agree with them)
So if Julie Bishop does contest and win, tones will turn on her as well.Pressman

Nothing will stop the delusions of grandeur that Tones has; if someone else gets the big chair not from his faction he'll do exactly the same thing to them as he's done to Malcolm. Carp, undermine, snipe.

All in all, they are demonstrating to the public what a load of idiots they are. Any challenges within the party will only lead to one winner, and he ain't a member of the Liberal party.Pressman

These people are altogether too selfish to even think of anyone outside of their factional cabals - they don't care that Shorten will win by default (just like they did?) because the electorate was sick of their factional games.

Contact don_dunstan

Could we have a 2nd Female Prime Minister, word going around the traps that Julie Bishop may make a run for the top job, if they decide to spill against Turnbull??

Kind Regardslsrailfan

As discussed previously she has the problem of not being acceptable to the Tones faction so it doesn't solve the problem. Tones and his friends don't want anyone they consider too wet/leftie/progressive whatever in the big chair - they don't want anyone other than a Tones clone like him in that chair.