Blood On My Shirt - Where Are the Real Men At?

I put myself in harms way... a man much, much bigger than myself for a person I didn't even know. The least he could have done was acknowledge it.
That's not really expecting much in return mate. Like everyone else that was standing around, I could have just as easily let him get the crap beaten
out of him... but I didn't roll that way. Truth is that he's lucky I was there. End of story!

IRM

yep..I totally agree with you..he should have thanked you..and not charged you for your paper and drink..He sounds like a complete jerk..who somehow
had it coming to him...because I can't see why else he would not acknowledge what you did for him.

You did a very good deed that was not appreciated..which is very unfortunate..but..please know that the next time you do something good..it could very
well be very much appreciated.

Kudos to you for your bravery... and sympathy for it being wasted on a very ungrateful jerk.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
I would feel even worse then I do now knowing I could of stopped it.

We all could stop a lot of injustice if were to choose to. we could vigilantly patrol our suburbs & cities stopping violence with violence. Is it
maybe only because you witnessed it, with your own eyes and at that very moment overcome by emotion, paralyzed mind, fear of doing nothing caused you
to do something. How can we burden our self with the guilt of doing nothing, if that is what we all do, everyday.

What if it happened again, tomorrow, then the next, and the next? each day do you continue to stop it? do you reach a day when enough is enough?

Again, you've raise some very challenging questions. I said this before and I'll say it again. Making a philosophy or a set regiment out of
intervening in situations like these, is not productive or healthy in my opinion. It all comes down to the circumstance and spontaneity. Sure, I see
atrocities in the news happening all of the world and do nothing about it. But if I see an atrocity happening in front of my eyes, then I must act.
There is no fear or emotion involved in that because there is no thought only instinctual reaction.

I am a staunch supporter of non-violence and I agree fully with your assessment that violence begets violence. And I am sure what I did, did not deter
this man from becoming violent in the future. But it did end his violent rampage for the time being and allowed for three people to walk away less
injured then they potentially would have been.

This situation taught me a valuable lesson though, which is, that reality is not as black and white as I may want it to be. That is why I don't
believe one can make a set ideology out of life, it is too complicated and full of variables that we cannot account for. If you were to ask me to use
violence to protest an injustice done by our government, I would refuse and instead seek to utilize non-violent methods. But if I saw you on the
street and someone was trying to kill or seriously injure you or your family, I would step up in a flash and use just enough violence, if I had to, in
order to protect you and save your life.

questions, did you see what transpried before the man starting beating the girl? are you sure it was his daughter? do you know if she committed a
crime against the man? if so is he not allowed to defend himself? where the women her accomplishes, and came to her aid when she got caught ? did the
police question you and the the three women or any others in the crowd? did you stay around and even wait to see if the cops came? you said the three
left, and you don't know if they went to the hospital or the police station, why didn't you wait for the cops? could the women bugged have out to
keep from being arrested?
seems to me if you were inter rested in doing the right thing you would have called the cops and stayed and waited to find out the out come. did you
call the cops and tell them you were the guy who knocked him out and do the rest of the right thing?

you see when you get involved in something you didn't witness from the beginning. and make a decision to intervene, you never know what your gonna
get involved in.

Why assume intervening requires violence? The pacifist thing to do would be to step in the middle and simply let the man hit you after calling the
police. Not only is this pacifist but smart in that it absolves you of legal entanglements associated with laying your hands on another human being.
The quote about violence over honor has no relevance in this situation and I do believe it is possible to have an ideology which copes with the grays
that often color real life. You simply have to be willing to stick to it, no matter what.

I, myself, help people in violent situations, car troubles, accidents, etc. The fact that the guy abused two other women trying to help justified any
necessary force to stop him. Just like a rampaging animal or a raging inferno, action was needed to stop any further damage and danger.

I read or see on t.v. situations where help is needed but many people simply watch or walk by, and I often loose my peace by saying, "if I was there
I would help, what's wrong with all of those people not helping?!"

But I also know the pain and regret from causing injury to others, even when they had it coming to them. Many times after justifiable fights, I sit
alone wishing I hadn't hurt the person. Almost a paradox. Maybe I should learn some of the Ip Man or Jet Li techniques where I can take people down
with little injury to theirselves.

Thank you brother for stepping in. I appreciate it. May Peace blanket you and ease your frustrations.

I don't help people with car trouble if I'm alone. I've had a guy try to use that one against me before. Most people have cell phones, but if
I'm very concerned about the location I might swing around again to see how the person is doing or call it in.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reality is not as black and white as I may want it to be. That is why I don't believe one can make a set ideology out of life, it is too complicated
and full of variables that we cannot account for.

All good! until faced with it in person one can not know I suppose. All is different, never can there be a definite answer, all comes down to the
individual. Thank you for your posts.

Before I walked into the store I saw them arguing, and heard her say, "What the hell! You should love me regardless of what my mom did!" and heard
him say she was a B-word just like her mom. I didn't pay it no mind. The two women pulled up in a car and walked inside right behind me. They were
talking to each other and laughing, paying no mind to them either. They must of seen what was happening out the store window though and went outside
to intervene because by the time I went to pay for my drink they were no longer in the store.

I didn't stay for the cops, because A) I wasn't about to sit around getting interviewed and hassled for an hour after what just happened and B)
those two women seemed to be in charge of the situation fairly well, and C) I figured there was enough witnesses to explain what happened. Anyways, I
went back to the store and talked with the clerk that was there when it happened, and she said the cops arrested the guy, the girl was safe and they
didn't even inquire into who hit him. In the end, maybe I didn't do what was right, but if you weren't there then you can't really understand the
full scope of the situation.

Yes, that is what I am saying I probably should of done. Not so much for legal safety but for mental purity. This is something I really need to work
on. It's funny, I just made a thread about this, "Why So Angry?", where I spoke about the Buddha allowing a man to abuse him. And although I did
not do this out of anger, I truly thought I would be able to sustain physical abuse without reacting violently. But in the heat of the moment, when I
saw this man raging like he was, and when he swung at me like I was going to be the next target of his rampage, everything changed. My instincts to
survive kicked in without thinking and struck him out of self defense.

Wolves prey on sheep. Sheepdogs protect sheep and attack wolves. Sheep go about with blinders on and absolutely refuse to acknowledge the existence
of wolves. They do, however, recognize sheepdogs and they fear them. This is why people who intervene to save others often get charged with crimes.
This is why we have so many laws that restrict the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their loved ones. Wolves do not care
about laws.

Please don't attach any morality to these labels. There aren't any. A sheep can't help fearing a sheepdog anymore than sheepdog can help being
compelled to come to the aid of a sheep that is being attacked. It's just how we are wired. This doesn't mean that we should not be held
accountable for our actions.

You hear it all the time when they interview somebody who rushed into a burning building or took some other huge risk to themselves to help another.
The first thing out of there mouths is "I don't know why I did it. It was like I was on autopilot." I know why they did it. They are sheepdogs
and don't even know it.

OP, do you carry a cell phone? Should have just dialed the police. They are paid and trained to deal with disturbances such as what you witnessed. I'm
not judging you because I was involved in a similar situation several years back. You were lucky. Several negative outcomes could have happened.
Unless you live where there is no civility, let the pro's take care of it.' I am by no means a cop or related to a cop.' (disclaimer)
S+F for you fine sir!

Yes, you are correct. But in certain situations, if we all just became "phone the police and wait!" citizens, then our society would become a group
of helpless observers, and this would put too much weight on the backs of our police forces who are already working with overloads of helpless
citizens.Take for instance school shooting situations. The times that teachers just called for help and waited for police to arrive, resulted in mass
killings. But the times that a teacher, or a number of teachers, risked their life to subdue and disarm the suspect, resulted in far less tragedy. I
have no problem letting police do their job, and by no means would I ever consciously seek to be a vigilante, but in some instances there is no way I
am going to wait around for them to arrive when desperate measures arise.

Well, if you're like me you generally stop when the assailant stops resisting. I find that to be a good rule. Never ever kick someone when they're
down, regardless of whether or not they would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot. I find a good analogy for it is this: in peacetime attack
to stop the attack, in harsher times, attack to stop the attacker..catch my drift.

So the guy was in blind rage and attacked a child and 2 women. What peaceful way could this have been solved?
I don't see one. Every option leads to violence.

Now, there's the situation of "should I have intervened?". I say yes. Here's why, lets say they were family, would you step in if it was your
brother/sister beating on their kid and then going on a rage and hurting people just trying to help?

I would have intervened. Would I do it every single time? Well, I don't think I would need to.
Those 5 guys that were standing around doing nothing? Yeah, you bet at LEAST one of them feels like a jerk. Chances are, next time some, if not all
five of them will stand up for what is right.

I understand perfectly. Unfortunately not everyone works like that, once you are immersed in violent behavior no matter how skilled you are you can
loose control, at the time you might think you are using necessary force or protecting the innocent but guess what you are in a primal state filled
with adrenalin etc which is purposely designed to over ride logic and reason, and unless you are trained or well learned in containing unpredictable
people then anything can and does happen.

Domestic violence is a vicious circle anyway, saving a child from one beating is practically pointless. you either remove the child permanently from
the danger or you stay away because at the end of the day you may actually be causing more harm than good.

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