A Field Guide To Creepy Dom

This is something I wrote about two years ago which has been reposted every which way all over the internet. I don’t even know where it is at this point, I just know that I still get repost requests for it all the time. I don’t like this piece very much and never really did, and if I wrote it now I would probably say some things differently. However, I still agree with the gist and stand by what I said.

So, without further ado: A Field Guide To Creepy Dom

1. Introduction

This is a public service announcement for the BDSM and kink community. It is especially directed at anyone relatively new, and extra especially at anyone who ever bottoms. For the benefit of everyone’s mental health and safety, I would like to discuss the widespread phenomenon known as Creepy Dom.

Creepy Dom has many faces. He is almost always male, although I have encountered his rarer cousin, Creepy Domme, from time to time. Sometimes he seems only mildly annoying, at other times outright dangerous, but in general, he just gets scarier as you spend more time around him.

You all know this guy, or have at least heard of him. He’s the one who got banned from the local S&M club. He’s the asshole who just sent you a rude “Submit to me now” message on Bondage.com— even though you’re listed as a femdom. He’s the guy who seriously abused your friend under the guise of “D/s.” He might’ve even made the national news, but more likely, his victims have never reported him to the police.

Who am I to speak of Creepy Dom? Not an expert, by any means. I have, however, extensively observed this creature in all of its natural habitats, from internet message boards, to the dark corners of the local dungeon, to sleazy hotel rooms. My encounters with Creepy Dom have been many and varied, and started long before I was legally of age to enter the real life BDSM scene.

I found him first on the interwebs, preying on fourteen year old nymphets. Though I was young at the time (sixteen) I had a sense of responsibility for my community that not all of my fellow underaged kinksters shared, and I was concerned by what I saw going on. In an attempt to counteract the onslaught of Creepy Doms that plagued us wherever we attempted to gather in solidarity, I founded YouthKink, a small online forum that eventually drew about thirty members, specifically for those of us who were desperately kinky and too young to do anything about it. There, I and my co-moderators tried to disseminate information gleaned mostly from SM 101 and a few good websites.

The teens who frequented YouthKink were generally responsible sorts, determined not to do anything unsafe or illegal. But once in a while, we encountered this girl:

“my master says if ur a real slave u cant have ne limits!1111!!”

The poor thing was usually in an online or IRL relationship with a man old enough to be her father. This individual was her sole source of information on BDSM, and he fed her nothing but lies. My co-moderator and I would do our best to set her straight, sometimes with modest success. But all too often, the damage had been done.

When I entered the IRL BDSM scene on my 18th birthday, I was absurdly confident that my battles with Creepy Dom were over. The scene filters out all the bad guys, right? Everyone knows everyone, and so everyone knows if you’re an asshole. I was so wrong. In fact, I fell into the hands of not one, not two, but three creepy doms that very first week. Two of them manifested their creep-ness immediately, one of them by asking that I immediately move to LA and become his live-in slave (!). One of them, however, hid his true nature from me for a long time. I foolishly trusted him, and was foolishly devoted to him. He eventually ending up abusing and raping me. All that my “true submission” got me was a disease, a broken heart, and a slew of psychological issues that remain, as of this date, largely unresolved. A cautionary tale.

After this, I became a bit of a connoisseur of Creepy Doms. In a time when I craved and needed sexual pain, but scorned true human contact, it occurred to me that the best people to prey on are the predators. If you’re looking for trouble, Creepy Dom will always meet you halfway. One thing I discovered is that Creeps rarely pull anything really horrible on a first date, and better yet, you don’t have to feel guilty that there won’t be a second one. I learned how to spot ‘em– or rather, I learned that they would spot me. It was sort of a symbiotic relationship– I got my needs met by allowing myself to be preyed upon in small doses.

I’m past that phase now, thank God. For several months, I lived virtually Creepy Dom Free, aside from the occasional, inevitable internet idiot. But just last night, alas, I had occasion to remember Creepy Dom, when we were approached by a prime specimen of the breed at Bondage A Go Go.

This… gentleman… began by intruding upon a scene in progress. He proceeded to speak only to Dylan and Char, completely slighting me. He said he could get them into a private party at Mr. S. He asked us where we usually hang out, and when Char said “The Citadel” he reacted with suppressed scorn. Before any of us fully knew what was happening, he had grabbed Dylan (who was already subspaced out) and forced him onto his knees, without so much as a ‘by your leave.’ “You can always tell if someone’s submissive by doing this,” he said, digging his finger into a pressure point on Dylan’s wrist. He pointed out the involuntary twitch of one of Dylan’s fingers, then reached for my arm to do the same to me.

“I didn’t give you permission to touch me,” I hissed.

He laughed, and said something to the effect that “she,” on the other hand, was not submissive.

“My name is Asher, I am not she, I’m a transman, and not letting you touch me has nothing to do with whether I’m submissive,” I informed him.

Finding no fertile ground in me, he focused his attention on Dylan. Char sat by, not quite sure whether to interfere, but not willing, either, to leave Dylan alone with this person. To me, at the time, it looked like the two of them were both eating up all of this guy’s bullshit. I left in disgust to get some air, still shaking with endorphins from my rudely interrupted scene.

When I returned, Jackass was done with Dylan, who was sitting around looking spaced out and lost, but not in his usual happy way. Jackass was promising extravagant Mr. S goodies to everyone, and trying to get contact info. Before he left, he apologized, condescendingly, for touching me without permission. I pointed out that he had also walked into the middle of our scene. He smirked, and repeated, “I apologize for touching you without permission.”

The incident was full of red flags from start to finish. The guy was absolutely a text book case. He exhibited many traits which, come to think of it, I have seen in one form or another in all of my encounters with Creepy Dom. I am inspired to make a list of these traits, as sort of a field guide, using examples from my own experience. Here are some of the things to look out for.

2. The Anatomy Of Creepy Dom

A. He comes on too strong, too fast

Creepy Dom is not just looking for something for one night. He is an abuser, and he needs someone to control over a long period of time. He will therefore come on very strong and friendly right off the bat, try to obtain contact info, and attempt to establish a more-than-casual relationship quite quickly.

Take the man from BaGG last night, who I’ll call “Dave.” He tried to instill a sense of gratitude or even indebtedness towards him with his “private party invitation” and offers of “Mr. S gift cards.” Buying loyalty is a common Creepy Dom tactic.

Another guy, who I’ll refer to as “Mitch,” tried to turn a one night stand into a Dom/sub relationship by proclaiming that “he just knew this was the start of something really special.” A Creepy Domme, “Liza,” was talking about “our relationship” on the third date. Then there’s the “Jake” from L.A. that I mentioned earlier, who tried to get me to move away from family, friends, home and school after barely knowing me for a week.

Creepy Dom wants quick commitment. In order to get it from you, he will try to convince you that you’re really special, and you should feel privileged to have his attention. But if you’ve got a Creepy Dom pressing you for monogamy and/or submission, ask yourself why, if he’s everything he says he is, he doesn’t have someone on their knees before him already?

Creepy Dom is almost always alone. And there’s a very good reason for that.

B. He’s Consensuality Challenged

The laying on of hands without permission is a classic sign of a Creepy Dom. Almost every single Creepy Dom that I have encountered has done this. This is just one way in which one of his essential traits manifests: For all he may talk about being SSC (Safe, Sane and Consensual), he doesn’t care shit about it.

Creepy Dom may not negotiate, or not negotiate enough. He may even voice scorn for the practice of negotiation. He will do things without asking, or only ask after the fact. “Liza” demanded that I call her ‘mommy’ without first asking if it was all right. “Molly” asked that I address her as ‘big sister,’ similarly without preamble. Luckily for all concerned, I am not an incest survivor.

If you pursue a relationship with Creepy Dom, the consensuality issues will not go away. They will, in fact, continue, and increase exponentially in severity. A case in point is the man who repeatedly tricked or forced me into having unprotected sex, and later, slipped me a date rape drug.

C. He “Has Connections” and is “Experienced”

Creepy Dom is, in his mind, Uberdom. Regardless of his level of experience or involvement with the community, he will tell you that he is a highly skilled dominant and has lots of well-connected friends. “Name dropping” is common– he’ll make sure you know about all the organizations he’s involved with, and all the well-known players who are supposedly his buddies. He usually doesn’t know any of them quite as well as he wants you to believe.

I once inadvertently assisted a Creepy Dom in the middle of an attempted name drop. He was trying to say something about a “well known rope top– Jay Whatshisname.”

“Jay Wiseman?” I asked. “Wrote SM 1O1?”

“He wrote SM 101?” Creepy Dom gawked.

Later that evening, he mentioned, to a new acquaintance, his friendship with “Jay Wiseman, author of SM 101.”

Oy.

Rule of thumb: If you need to say you’re a master, you probably aren’t a master. Be wary of any top who brags excessively about his “experience” and “scene cred.”

D. He “Essentializes” Dominance And Submission

Creepy Dom has a theory. He thinks dominance and submission are innate personality traits that manifest, not only in a scene, but in all walks of life. Dominance is a tao, to him. He may talk about “true dominance” or “true masters,” “true submission” and “true slaves.” He thinks he can spot people who are “naturally” submissive because of superficial traits. Shyness is a popular sign of “true” submission. So is indecisiveness. For another example, see ‘Dave’s’ pressure point test.

Some Creepy Doms have a strong New Age twist, and these tend to have the most amusing and infuriating theories of D/s of all. One guy, ‘Mitch,’ simply characterized dominance and submission as “masculine” and “feminine,” which is a rather Gorean way of looking at it. Another, one of the more unpleasant internet Creepy Doms I’ve encountered, assumed right off the bat that because I was “submissive” I must have been “abused in childhood.” (When I rejected him, he immediately wished me post traumatic flashbacks.)

Now, some truly decent people hold similar ideas about the innateness of dominance and submission, so this can get tricky. Don’t use this sign alone to spot a Creepy Dom. But most Creepy Doms will hold forth extensively on this topic, because it ties into my next point–

E. He Manipulates Your Desire To Be A Good Bottom

A Creepy Dom will try to draw you in with praise, saying he knew from the instant he saw you that you were a “true submissive.”

For example, ‘Dave’ flattered Dylan when he proclaimed the results of his little ‘pressure point’ test. Dylan was clearly submissive, and even his unconscious reflexes said so. This was a big pat on the back.

On the other hand, the moment I rejected ‘Dave,’ I was proclaimed to be “not submissive.” Obviously anyone who has the ability to draw boundaries does not have the “natural gift of submission.”

This is the main method of Creepy Dom. Obeying him is rewarded with praise, and especially with the affirmation that you are a “true submissive,” a “real slave.” On the other hand, limit setting is labeled “topping from the bottom” and leads him instantly to the conclusion that you are not, in fact, truly submissive.

Case in point: “Lily” was a Creepy Domme who found one of my friends on Craigslist. She took him to the now-closed Power Exchange, tied him to a chair, and left him there for an hour. While she was gone, another couple sat down close by and starting going at it. My friend was unable to move away, with the result that he got a stranger’s body fluids all over him. When Lily came back, he was on the verge of a breakdown. The next day, when he tried to tell her that what she did wasn’t OK, he was reprimanded and told not to “top from the bottom.”

The man who really hurt me badly talked about innate dominance and submission a lot. He convinced me, for a while, that because I was “naturally submissive” I “needed” a dominant to “mentor” me through life– and of course, he was just the man.

A related point– Creepy Doms generally know how to induce subspace quickly, and also know how to take advantage of it. Dylan was unable to refuse ‘Dave’ last night because he had literally been put into an altered state. “It was a weird subspace,” he said later. “It didn’t feel as happy as it [subspace] usually does.”

Hearing him say that brought back not-so-fond memories of how a “really deep subspace” can be turned almost seamlessly into Stockholm syndrome.

F. He’s Usually Doing Something Wrong

Of course, the most important sign of a Creepy Dom is that he’s actually saying or doing something fucked up. He usually shows his true colors pretty quickly, but he often does so in small, excusable ways. Make no mistake– these guys are often pretty charming, and seem so confident in their “experience” and “scene cred” that it can be hard to call it like you see it, even when what he’s doing is really wrong.

Try to step back and ask yourself if what he’s doing is really OK. Did he intrude on a scene in progress? Has he touched someone without permission? Is he breaking the club rules, or the rules of common courtesy? Does he use his toys clumsily or unsafely? Does he neglect barrier protection?

Most of the Creepy Doms I have encountered were, in fact, almost constantly guilty of discourtesy, stupidity and deceit. One guy pulled me aside to suck his cock in a corner at a party where sex was prohibited. Another man bragged about fucking a woman so roughly that the friction of the carpet tore bleeding wounds in her back. Another guy talked to me at length about his scorn for predatory dominants who pounce on the newbies the minute they come through the door, despite the fact that it was the night of my 18th birthday and he was about to ask me to play.

Usually there are obvious red flags present from the beginning. But we let them slide. We give these men and women the benefit of the doubt. We believe in their supposed “scene credentials” and take them at their word when they say they always play SSC.

Why?

3. Conclusion

What is so intoxicating, and also so dangerous, about Creepy Dom, is that he does not distinguish between the scene and reality. This is why he thinks that dominant people are dominant all the time, and submissive people are doormats. This is why he doesn’t negotiate or ask permission. This is why he has no regard for rules.

To him, it is not a game. He is not looking for a safe, sane and consensual relationship, with limits, safewords, and boundaries. He is a real control freak who wants to hurt you.

It can be really hot, at first, because let’s face it– none of us fantasize about negotiations and limits. We fantasize about some big rough brute coming up to us in the corner of a dark club and demanding exactly what he wants. And that’s pretty much what this guy does. He makes it all real, and that is the source of his charm. That is also why he will destroy you.

Around him, there’s no “off” time. Even when you aren’t technically in a scene, he takes control of the situation. Although he may not say he’s interested in 24/7, what he wants is complete power over you.

When all’s said and done, Creepy Dom is just a classic abuser dressed up in leather. And that, my friends, is a lot less sexy than it sounds.

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About Asher

Asher Bauer is fast becoming a fixture in the San Francisco kink community, and intends to stay that way. He has worked as a Queer Educator at LYRIC (Lavender Youth Recreation And Information Center), and since has taken his talents as an educator to a wider variety of audiences, teaching on subjects ranging from safer sex to BDSM to trans and queer identities. He is also one of the hosts and originators of Transmission, the new trans-centric party at the San Francisco Citadel, and Invasion, the Citadel's all-genders queer party.
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I’d love to see the updated version of this post, if you ever write one. I’ve been thinking of writing something similar for the edification of new scenesters.

This basically fits under your “consensuality challenged” section, but I would be sure to mention that Creepy Dom, while voicing scorn for the practice of negotiation, will often pressure bottoms to go without safewords. Anyone who attempts to convince a new partner to go without safewords loses my respect instantly.

before I read this post, I should mention that I misread the intro as saying “this is a piece I wrote about ten years ago” and I was really creeped out. But then I thought maybe you spent a lot of time on the Internet when you were in middle school. But I was still kind of creeped until I figured out it said “two years ago.”

I’ve met plenty of Creepy Doms before, though thankfully not the Creepy Domme. Which is to say you’re right, this dynamic is almost always seen in a male dominant. But are the Creepy Dommes in any way recognizably different? Does gender alter this dynamic enough for there to be a separate set of red flags?

What I’m more interested in, however, is what consequences, if any, do the Creepers suffer? BDSM is often touted as a self-regulating community, so… How does this shit get regulated?

What disturbs me most about the Bondage-A-Go-Go episode you describe is that no one stopped him from interrupting your scene. Is that common? I know that doing that is *specifically* considered the cardinal sin in many places, so… What’s the enforcement mechanism?

I’m asking this because similar incidents in the scene in my hometown have started to make me question the wisdom or safety of bringing in friends who are interested. Is there something I’m missing? Or do we all just need to be more careful in the absence of any real authority?

I wish I had known about warning signs when I was seventeen. I think this post could be useful even for folks who are not active in kink scenes. I’ve seen a lot of the warning signs you give here in abusive relationships I’ve had that were not kinky. Yes to this: “Creepy Dom is just a classic abuser dressed up in leather.” Thank you for writing this, and thank you so much for sharing your stories to be a help to others. I will certainly share it with people I care about.

I have one request: would you mind putting a trigger warning at the beginning of the post? I have PTSD, and I do read other survivors’ stories, but I like to know ahead of time that that’s what I’ll be reading. that way, I can consent or not to reading the story, and be in the right state of mind.

Thanks for this. I’m an inherently trusting, naive person, and almost got myself into deep trouble when I first discovered the online communities. There was a “master” who wanted a 24/7 relationship, and I was to give up all my worldly possessions to CREW on his BOAT. The boat pics he sent were beautiful, but there’s no saying -whose- boat that was. The irritating part about most of those Creepy Doms was the insistence on a time limit; I had to respond by a certain number of days or I’d have a slew of ugly words weighing down my inbox. They’re like salespeople, trying to convince you that it’s a limited time offer that other people have already written the check for. Thank Shiva I found somebody sane.

Yeah, I tend to be a very polite/trusting person and give everyone the benefit of the doubt but luckily I tend to listen to my gut instinct if I sense something is amiss. I’ve only met 2 creepy doms in my life when I was around 18-19 years old, and both had that annoying/pushy “salesman” vibe that I found to be a complete turnoff and me simply get up, leave, and never talk to them again.

What bothers me about this (and I’m surprised no one has brought this up already) is how many of these traits can ALSO be exhibited by people with various mental/developmental disorders (or, to see it in a different light, NNT [neuro non-typical] people). People who have stuff like Asperger’s Syndrome or even ADHD can have problems with social interaction and can come on too strong too fast, have issues like knowing when is appropriate to approach people, knowing when it’s ok to touch, difficulty reading body language, and can find negotiations to be quite challenging. (I know I always forget a few things when I do negotiations, sometimes to my dismay when something is happening that I can’t have happen/don’t want to have happen.) These people have just as much right to be part of the Scene & not be villainized as an abuser.

I think it’s very VERY important that some kind of distinction is made between people with mental issues/NNT folks in the Scene & the Creepy Dom. (And, in fact, I wonder how many times the Creepy Dom really is just someone who has interaction issues or other mental problems and isn’t doing it out of genuine malice?) Maybe this needs to be worked out a bit more so that we can see the difference between the 2? Because the Creepy Abuser Dom (or Asshole In A Black Vest) DOES indeed exist.

This is a really good point. As I said, I wrote this a long time ago and was MUCH less politically aware then. Frankly it feels like the majority of “the scene” is neuroatypical sometimes.

I think this is where my last point, “he’s usually doing something wrong,” comes in. IMHO looking for “red flags” is often a futile undertaking anyway. What’s most important is to keep our eyes open for stuff that is genuinely uncomfortable/not OK with us.

But I do agree that this essay probably is way overdue for some serious revision.

Another autie here. There is some overlap, but I think it should usually be obvious that we’re *trying* to do things right, at least. (I’d expect an autie in the situation you illustrated to apologize without the snark when called on their behavior, for example.)

Also, just because it’ll feel like an elephant in the room to me if I don’t say it: Being an autie and being manipulative or abusive aren’t mutually exclusive categories. We *may* be less prone to that kind of thing than NTs, and should certainly not be assumed to be dangerous, but if someone does show actual signs of being dangerous, them claiming to be autistic or whatever doesn’t make it any less okay to get yourself out of the situation.

As one autistic person, I’d say that there’s a distinction to be made with an autistic/ADHD/looney-brained person acting in bad ways unintentionally and abusers. Because the former category will, if you tell them what they’re doing wrong, apologize & work to correct themselves. There’s also not that sense of skin-crawling danger that abusers give off. (It’s also been my experience that autistic/DD people are even more mindful of boundaries, physical and emotional. But yeah I could see somebody just being completely clueless about stuff like that.)

What you’re saying makes me really uncomfortable. I have autism and I would never do the things Asher is talking about. If I did, I would deserve to be judged as “creepy” just as much as someone without a disability.

I see PWDs coming into conversations on other issues and pointing out things that could possibly be ableist or could serve to erase PWDs. A lot of the time I love seeing this because the presence and existence of disabled people is often ignored. But occasionally, it feels like someone tries to read ableism into something when it’s not there and ends up actually insulting disabled people.

I imagine you’re probably disabled, but please think about the similarities between what you’re saying and the kinds of things non-disabled people say when they’re implying that people with developmental disabilities shouldn’t have sex. We don’t know that it wouldn’t be okay to touch someone in this situation? We “find negotiations challenging”? I don’t find it at all challenging to respect the word no–but I can sure think of non-disabled people who believe that’s the case.

I’m an Aspie, and consider myself a Dom-switch. I’ve made a lot of the mistakes pointed out as red flags in the past when I was first learning the scene, and I will doubtless make more in the future. That being said, this essay is still very well written and relevant so long as people understand that some people might not be doing it on purpose. Coming on too fast/too strong isn’t okay or excusable just because I’m an Aspie; it just changes how it should be dealt with.

Luckily when I met a Creepy Dom I had already been in the scene for years. After we played, which was a good situation, he kept trying to convince me that I should submit to him at some other time. This was at a party, with somebody I knew, which was the only reason I played with this guy. Even though I told him that I wasn’t a submissive, only a Bottom, he kept trying to convince me that I just hadn’t experienced a situation where I would feel comfortable being submissive. There are times I FEEL submissive, with one man, but it doesn’t last, because I’m not submissive by nature. I told him that I wasn’t going to submit to him, but he still gave me his email address because he was sure I was change my mind.

[...] I like it. To be honest, I hated it. I really did. It’s title is deceptive and ”A Field Guide To The Creepy Dom: The Movie,” would be a much more fitting title because the film progresses very much like [...]

As a switch who’s had a puresub at her fingertips for eight years worth of a relationship (that I ultimately broke off because she was entirely dependant on me), I’ve often asked myself if I overstepped some lines. I took control of her life completely in a parental but stern way, and I guided her away from a state of boredom and unemployment (state-supported, she’s registered disabled (ADHD)) with vehemence and encouragement.

When we broke up – even before we broke up, really – I would have these thoughts: Is it my place to do these things? I looked at myself and I considered myself really harsh and abusive – our arguing style tended to involve a lot of yelling, which, while mutual, just doesn’t help the self-perception. And at the end of the day, I effectively *forced* her to get her shit together and get work and find herself.

And I definitely made her move away from where she had been.

The thing is, that was nowhere near where I lived, not to mention many months into our relationship. She’d started out on an island in the UK, and I pushed her to the UK mainland, because there were essentially two jobs available on the island, and she wasn’t able to do either.

She wanted nothing of limits, I told her it’s important she knows hers. When she got a boyfriend (we were and are both polyamourous), I was intensely afraid for her because I knew she wasn’t going to be able to say ‘no’ and there were good chances something would happen to hurt her (despite the guy being awesome and I’d known him for years and knew precisely how much respect he had for her; but without clear communication, you can only do so much, and the girlfriend was the sort you had to arduously wring her limits out of her).

Reflecting on myself, I was probably a better domme than I give myself credit for. The fact I managed to get through this writ without ever having to check off a point is liberating – which isn’t to say there aren’t things I regret, but they are, fantastically, the small things that are few and far between, not the fundamentals.

Maybe the fact I reflected on things as much as I did and do (and eventually outright ended the relationship once I had the impression it wasn’t getting her any further) already automatically disqualifies me as Creepy Dom from the get-go. I don’t know.

[...] Asher points out that someone who fulfills your wilder fantasies “can be really hot, at first, because let’s face it — none of us fantasize about negotiations and limits.” But in real life, someone who doesn’t negotiate and doesn’t respect limits can be destructive and dangerous. [...]