Just got turned down for umbrella insurance by Liberty Mutual, which I use for car, home, etc. Was told "I had no need for that amount", which is about 1/2 my net worth. I have a clean credit history, driving history, and have made almost no claims for house/auto. Turns out you need assets such as a house, jewelry, rental properties and other "hard" assets, stocks and bonds do not count. They won't even consider having me "prove" my assets.

Any one else run into this problem ? Suggestions on other insurance companies to speak with ?

I don't understand their rationale for turning you down. I would think they'd be happy to collect extra money from you. Most umbrella insurance is actually covered on the backend from just one or two re-insurers so if their reason was legitimate - you might have the same problem elsewhere.
If I was in your shoes I'd go talk to a local agent to learn more (there's never an obligation to call a few local agents).
FWIW - when I repriced my insurance last year I found Liberty Mutual was on the higher side - so you might benefit from shopping your policies around anyway.

Just got turned down for umbrella insurance by Liberty Mutual, which I use for car, home, etc. Was told "I had no need for that amount", which is about 1/2 my net worth. I have a clean credit history, driving history, and have made almost no claims for house/auto. Turns out you need assets such as a house, jewelry, rental properties and other "hard" assets, stocks and bonds do not count. They won't even consider having me "prove" my assets.

Any one else run into this problem ? Suggestions on other insurance companies to speak with ?

Thanks for any info

We had an insurer question "why" when we requested an unusually high commercial property for our vacation rental cabins.
We explained what our concerns were, and also added some personal background/experience about why we "cared". We assume they were concerned we were plotting something, some sort of insurance fraud with a hefty payout.
We were approved.
About 5 years later (+/-), they asked again, and upon hearing our answer, again approved.
We no longer have the properties, given that we started traveling a lot and couldn't easily manage inquiries/etc., and no surprise, we never had a claim.
The extra coverage didn't cost that much extra at all.

But we DID "explain".
Perhaps you could do that, without being asked?
It's surprising that you'd be turned down as "not needing it" for only half your net worth. Our regular homeowner's umbrella policy is for a bit more than our net worth, and no one asked any questions, and we weren't "turned down" at any point. (The commercial policy was in a different state, with a different insurer, and taken out *after* we already had our own homeowner's coverage nicely in place.)

When you are turned down for an insurance, you can request your own CLUE report. Start there and see if there are (inaccurate) records in the insurance database.

Good luck.

Thank you, did not know about CLUE

To other responses here:

The phone agent (they no longer have people you can sit down with and speak with) was very specific - the manager who needed to approve this amount (it is a more than the $1M I currently have with them) would not approve because "I do not need the amount requested". I have been a customer with them for multiple decades.

I am in the process of speaking with local agents, which is not something I am looking forward to.

I am surprised an insurance company would turn turn someone down for asking for higher coverage... I.E. a higher premium paid to them.

It can be the same kind of concern if someone tries to get an unusually high life insurance policy, given their circumstances, or ditto homeowners coverage.
There is always the possibility of potential for insurance fraud, and the planning.

..... I have a clean credit history, driving history, and have made almost no claims for house/auto.

My color - The "almost no claims" might be part of the problem, depending on the frequency and number of claims.

Dale

A couple of mysteries resolved, hopefully will help others in my position:

- When I called back to get the CLUE report, they told me the original submission was done in error, that the phone agent should have attached information on net worth but did not. They did ask me for a reason, which I stated to protect my net worth, but did not ask for anything more than that.
- Net worth info has to be submitted to them by a certified financial advisor, and since I do not have one, that is problematic. I suppose I can try to use my Vanguard rep, but it is not clear that that is acceptable - they said I could try to submit it with that.
- The "almost clean" is an issue - I was told that I might be accepted for a slightly lower amount, but the higher amount probably would not be acceptable because of an auto claim against me (one fender bender in a crowded parking lot in the past 20 years of being their customer). I did not even file a claim because there was no damage on my car.
- The claim issue was not a factor in the original denial, lack of proof of assets were.

Interesting lesson here - bumping fenders in a parking lot could prevent you from getting covered in the future.

As much as you stated you wern't looking forward to talking to a local agent, sometimes having a relationship with one can be a help.

Absolutely agree. The thought of having Liberty Mutual "on my side" in the unfortunate situation of needing their help is enough to get over my inertia.

For one thing, the sales and claims areas of Liberty are almost like different companies. This is true for other insurance companies as well. Don't expect help from your agent in the event of a claim. I
am puzzled why they would turn you down for umbrella. I believe this to be vital coverage and almost everybody out to have it.

Groucho Marx was advised by his doctor to give up wine, women, and song. Someone asked him what he did about it and Groucho quipped, "I switched Doctors." You might want to look into the Groucho Marx solution.

As much as you stated you wern't looking forward to talking to a local agent, sometimes having a relationship with one can be a help.

This ^
Go somewhere else, and there's probably no downside to speaking personally to a broker (someone who offers policies from several different insurers), as not doing so didn't seem to provide a huge benefit

It does seem strange, given what you've shared, so contacting someone else could be much more successful.

We never had to provide proof of assets in any way.
I suppose our assets (much could probably be determined without our "cooperation", of course) weren't unusual for the area, and ditto the coverage requested.
(This was for the homeowners; the commercial coverage mentioned above generated questions, which were understandable, and we were also able to answer those to the other company's satisfaction.)

Also, a broker might be able to find the best priced policy for you. That never hurts!

Re Nedsaid's comment: We *have* had insurance agents assist with claims, and it helped a LOT.

skeptical-
I got an umbrella policy less than 2 years ago through our Farmers agent. I filled out a questionnaire but didn't have to provide any documentation as proof of assets. My agent worked as a broker presenting at least two umbrella providers.

Maybe try a local Farmers agent. You could also contact a local independent insurance broker. Liberty is not trying very hard to help you in this instance.

Odd. In my case, my State Farm agent was the one who originally suggested getting an umbrella policy. He had no knowledge and didn't ask for our net worth, but he definitely understood the value should somebody want to sue you for more than your other policies cover. Relatively cheap and very practical, IMHO.

State Farm asks practically no questions when you buy umbrella insurance, and their policies are really cheap in my neck of the woods (at least if you don't have teenage children just learning to drive). They may require you to switch your HO and auto to them however. So you'll be shopping the whole package.

Re Nedsaid's comment: We *have* had insurance agents assist with claims, and it helped a LOT.
RM

What I am saying is that the trend is for companies is to divide the sales part of the company from the claims side. Yes, there are still agents that will assist with the claims but this is getting to be less and less. On my last claim, my agent gave me the 1-800 claims number and I was pretty ticked off. The claims process was fairly smooth though.

I have a friend who was in the insurance business and he got into trouble for going to bat for a client in the claims process. With some companies, this just isn't done.

You are likely to get help from an older, established agent. Not sure about insurance brokers but since they are not captive to their company, they might be of more help in a claim.

Insurance agents today are like rowers in a Roman Galley. They are expendable and get tossed overboard to the sharks when they stop producing in a manner that suits the company. It has always been a tough business but it seems even tougher today.

My net worth is under $1 million and my local State Farm agent made no issue of issuing me a $3 million umbrella policy. They didn't ask for any documentation or proof of assets or investments (although I do have home and auto insurance with them). Seems like Liberty doesn't want your business. I'd find someone else who does.

One time I was rejected by company I now have for umbrella because of a particular traffic infraction - traffic light violation. Once it fell off the record was able to get it. However i don't think I was eligible for 2 mill. Traffic tickets and driving history do make a difference.

One time I was rejected by company I now have for umbrella because of a particular traffic infraction - traffic light violation. Once it fell off the record was able to get it. However i don't think I was eligible for 2 mill. Traffic tickets and driving history do make a difference.

This is one of the reasons why, in my opinion, you should always fight traffic tickets. Generally you can at least plead to a non-moving violation, maybe traffic school (I think that's online most places these days). There is a significant contingent here that thinks, "If you're guilty plead guilty and take your punishment." I don't, even though that's the easy way and cheap way. Fighting will often take more time and money, but the way traffic tickets ripple into insurance makes it worth it.

This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

We were current customers of Auto-Owners insurance when we applied for an umbrella policy greater than $1mm. Paperwork was minimal and we didn't need to provide any supporting documentation. Our net worth was lower than the umbrella amount by at least a factor of two and we had no issues. Premiums are very competitive based on other quotes I've seen recently.

One time I was rejected by company I now have for umbrella because of a particular traffic infraction - traffic light violation. Once it fell off the record was able to get it. However i don't think I was eligible for 2 mill. Traffic tickets and driving history do make a difference.

This is one of the reasons why, in my opinion, you should always fight traffic tickets. Generally you can at least plead to a non-moving violation, maybe traffic school (I think that's online most places these days). There is a significant contingent here that thinks, "If you're guilty plead guilty and take your punishment." I don't, even though that's the easy way and cheap way. Fighting will often take more time and money, but the way traffic tickets ripple into insurance makes it worth it.

Makes sense. This one was actually my wife and she said she got screwed, but she didn't want to fight it. I wish she would have.

Just got turned down for umbrella insurance by Liberty Mutual, which I use for car, home, etc. Was told "I had no need for that amount", which is about 1/2 my net worth. I have a clean credit history, driving history, and have made almost no claims for house/auto. Turns out you need assets such as a house, jewelry, rental properties and other "hard" assets, stocks and bonds do not count. They won't even consider having me "prove" my assets.

Any one else run into this problem ? Suggestions on other insurance companies to speak with ?

Thanks for any info

Liberty Mutual sounds like they are making a bad argument. When is the last time you shopped around your home and auto policies? I think it's a good time to shop around and see if you can get lower premiums.

How big of an umbrella did you ask for?

P.S. The most dangerous thing most of us do every day is drive around in a 2-ton metal machine that kills 30,000 people a year in the USA. If you have high net worth, of course you need umbrella, regardless of whether your assets are mostly in stocks/bonds.

Just got turned down for umbrella insurance by Liberty Mutual, which I use for car, home, etc. Was told "I had no need for that amount", which is about 1/2 my net worth. I have a clean credit history, driving history, and have made almost no claims for house/auto. Turns out you need assets such as a house, jewelry, rental properties and other "hard" assets, stocks and bonds do not count. They won't even consider having me "prove" my assets.

Any one else run into this problem ? Suggestions on other insurance companies to speak with ?

Thanks for any info

Liberty Mutual sounds like they are making a bad argument. When is the last time you shopped around your home and auto policies? I think it's a good time to shop around and see if you can get lower premiums.

How big of an umbrella did you ask for?

P.S. The most dangerous thing most of us do every day is drive around in a 2-ton metal machine that kills 30,000 people a year in the USA. If you have high net worth, of course you need umbrella, regardless of whether your assets are mostly in stocks/bonds.

I have $1 million umbrella with Geico.

Don't have anywhere near that amount in assets. They never even asked.

Just got Geico $3 million policy for less than $400 per year. This coverage is several times our net worth, but we have recently entered high earning potential and don't want our future wages garnished should something happen. They didn't verify anything except that our renter's and auto policies met the minimums.

When I first got umbrella insurance a decade or so ago, we were turned down by Ameriprise because they had discovered that my wife and I taught 6 months each year in China. Geico had no problems writing the policy.

"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells

I was able to get a $1 million dollar policy through Cincinatti and that is about 5x my net worth! We then found out my wife's employer has a group policy through Cincinatti that is $3 million for negligibly more money than we were paying, so now we have that -- 15x our current net worth!

Just got turned down for umbrella insurance by Liberty Mutual, which I use for car, home, etc. Was told "I had no need for that amount", which is about 1/2 my net worth. I have a clean credit history, driving history, and have made almost no claims for house/auto. Turns out you need assets such as a house, jewelry, rental properties and other "hard" assets, stocks and bonds do not count. They won't even consider having me "prove" my assets.

Any one else run into this problem ? Suggestions on other insurance companies to speak with ?

Thanks for any info

Liberty Mutual sounds like they are making a bad argument. When is the last time you shopped around your home and auto policies? I think it's a good time to shop around and see if you can get lower premiums.

How big of an umbrella did you ask for?

P.S. The most dangerous thing most of us do every day is drive around in a 2-ton metal machine that kills 30,000 people a year in the USA. If you have high net worth, of course you need umbrella, regardless of whether your assets are mostly in stocks/bonds.

Currently have $1M policy, was looking to increase it by a good amount. Have not shopped around for 10 years, getting quotes from two other places.

FWIW -Have liberty mutual auto and renters insurance. This thread prompted me to finally get umbrella and was able to call and get 2M for pretty cheap and no questions asked or asset verification. Took maybe 10 minutes total.

Our umbrella is either three or five million, I forget. Got it two years ago. Zero issues, no proof of anything. Been with the company for 28 years.

When I went up to higher amount from one million, my agent did ask why. I told him to protect our assets and net worth. He said it needed home office approval because they don't underwrite many in that amount.

As soon as each kid turns 18 I give them title to an old car to minimize my liability.

That isn't ironclad advice. A good plaintiff attorney should be able to make the connection that you were financially responsible for providing them a car, and thus financially responsible for the damages. I've seen many claims instances of this, including counts of negligent entrustment.

As soon as each kid turns 18 I give them title to an old car to minimize my liability.

That isn't ironclad advice. A good plaintiff attorney should be able to make the connection that you were financially responsible for providing them a car, and thus financially responsible for the damages. I've seen many claims instances of this, including counts of negligent entrustment.

This seems odd, what if you let someone borrow your car just for the day with the title still in your name?

State Farm asks practically no questions when you buy umbrella insurance, and their policies are really cheap in my neck of the woods (at least if you don't have teenage children just learning to drive). They may require you to switch your HO and auto to them however. So you'll be shopping the whole package.

I just got a quote from State Farm for $1m. The price was $415, which I thought might be high. Do you mind sharing what your pay? Thanks.

State Farm asks practically no questions when you buy umbrella insurance, and their policies are really cheap in my neck of the woods (at least if you don't have teenage children just learning to drive). They may require you to switch your HO and auto to them however. So you'll be shopping the whole package.

I just got a quote from State Farm for $1m. The price was $415, which I thought might be high. Do you mind sharing what your pay? Thanks.

I have a 1m umbrella policy from State Farm for $169 per year. I live in the pacific northwest which appears to be close to you based on your picture. I did start the policy when I rented an apartment and had less than $100k in net worth though. But all of my insurance is from state farm so they would know about any changes to my life. We have two cars, no kids, and a house worth 450k according to zillow.

We have a $3M in UI. I drive a 12 year old Honda Pilot, My wife has a 12 year old Nissan Quest and we have a $280K house. From insurance standpoint, we look like we would never need $3M in coverage. I think we pay $450 for that.

I just got a quote from State Farm for $1m. The price was $415, which I thought might be high. Do you mind sharing what your pay? Thanks.

$2m with state farm = $217 per year. btw, I got quotes from Geico last year... car insurance was half what I'm paying with SF, umbrella was over $500, and they don't offer homeowner's insurance. We stayed with SF.

--vtMaps

The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. --James Branch Cabell

As soon as each kid turns 18 I give them title to an old car to minimize my liability.

That isn't ironclad advice. A good plaintiff attorney should be able to make the connection that you were financially responsible for providing them a car, and thus financially responsible for the damages. I've seen many claims instances of this, including counts of negligent entrustment.

This seems odd, what if you let someone borrow your car just for the day with the title still in your name?

There is a difference between family and non-family. The previous example suggested that the car was purchased by the parent for the benefit of the child and to try and shield against liability.

Your example is different if you loan your car out. Insurance follows the vehicle regardless of the driver. There can be some nuances for both vehicle and driver having insurance, excluded drivers, etc. Typically this means you would be responsible for your friends damages. Assuming they carry insurance, theirs may provide excess coverage or share damages proportionally to yours depending on the specific policy language.

edited for typos from my phone

Last edited by jbmitt on Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This seems odd, what if you let someone borrow your car just for the day with the title still in your name?

There is a difference between family and non-family. The previous example suggested that the car was purchased by the parent for the benefit of the child and to try and shield against liability.

Your example is different if you loan your car out. Insurance follows the vehicle regardless of the driver. There can be some nuances for both vehicle and driver having insurance, excluded drivers, etc. Typically this means you would be responsible for your friends damages. Assuming they carry insurance, theirs may provide excess coverage or share damages proportionally to yours depending on the specific policy language.

edited for typos from my phone

Interesting, I knew insurance was on the vehicle, but what about bodily damage. If someone who borrows my car gets in a wreck at fault and injures the other person, how does this come into play?