I hope at the very least they add a tool to measure dps to test effective gear/builds.I understand alot of people are against it but also know alot of gamers these days fit the casual profile and only want things like meters absent because they don't want others to pass judgment on them when they are performing poorly. I for one wouldn't mind a tool that measures dps output,damage taken and the like just so I can have something to gage my performance to get better.

The amount of weapon swapping, dodging, rezzing, supporting your team and watching your surroundings. Knowing your DPS is the last thing on your mind.

Did you not get a chance to do any dungeons or fight and big bosses? As an ex-"hardcore" raider(fury warrior) I never once thought in GW2, "man, I wish I knew my DPS".

The amount of weapon swapping, dodging, rezzing, supporting your team and watching your surroundings. Knowing your DPS is the last thing on your mind.

Did you not get a chance to do any dungeons or fight and big bosses? As an ex-"hardcore" raider(fury warrior) I never once thought in GW2, "man, I wish I knew my DPS".

Knowing your DPS and whether you can or can't burn something down before it kills you is one of the main skills in GW2. As of right now, it's a bit of a guesswork for most so you have to go with "feeling".

Knowing your DPS and whether you can or can't burn something down before it kills you is one of the main skills in GW2. As of right now, it's a bit of a guesswork for most so you have to go with "feeling".

Hard numbers would be much better.

and take that skill factor away....just look at the numbers is not the same as making a judgement call.

and take that skill factor away....just look at the numbers is not the same as making a judgement call.

Numbers... that don't change or improve unless you make the right "calls" in the first place, right? You're really trying too hard here, man.

Addons are harmless. If they were added, those who hate them wouldn't use them and the rest of us would, however we know they're not going to be in for launch so we've accepted this. Really, what else is there to discuss here?

Addons are harmless. If they were added, those who hate them wouldn't use them and the rest of us would, however we know they're not going to be in for launch so we've accepted this. Really, what else is there to discuss here?

Saying that addons are harmless is not true. An easy example is Deadly Boss Mods in World of Warcraft. This addon has effectively pushed Blizzard to start designing fights with the hypothesis that every raider is using it. It doesn't matter if you hate boss mods or you love them, at end-game you have to use them. The same goes for Healers Have To Die. Of course you can choose to not use it but you can't guarantee that your opponent won't, effectively making it mandatory lest you want to gimp yourself. And these are only the addons that are absolutely necessary, we could also talk about all the class-specific addons that you are expected to have for maximum efficiency even if you could very well do without them. Now keep in mind that with GW2's Dynamic Events, the effect of addons on people that don't want to use them is even more amplified. If 5 people out of 15 participating in a DE are having an easier time, then the DE is globally easier for all 15 involved.

To recap : My first gripe against addons is the fact that they can push the developer to start designing the game around them, making them mandatory even for people who don't like using them. My second gripe is that due to the way GW2 questing works, a couple people having addons can make the fight easier for everyone in their group even if they don't want to.

That being said, I'm all for more UI customization and I won't even mind having the ability to make UI addons as long as they were purely cosmetic and/or organizational, an addon shouldn't add features that the game designers didn't account for. As for a DPS meter, I honestly don't see why anyone would need it as there is no such thing as enrage timers in the game. Furthermore, fights are never static and aggro isn't threat based, making it very difficult to judge one's performance based on his damage output.

Yes, but people get really defensive when someone points out something about their game as a downfall or a flaw. Having addons would be a wonderful addition (this coming from someone who doesn't really use them) and it's a shame they're not in.

No they wouldn't, they are for the most part terrible, it is absolutely hilarious that some games have addons that alert when you are standing in something, warn you about boss attacks, alert you when you need a potion, manage your cooldowns, identify opponents builds for you in PvP, then on top of that usually have faceroll macro systems, etc; in essence they play the game for you, which has resulted in a generation of MMORPG players who basically can't play.

I beg to differ just because of how I like to play these types of games

I would like a better indication of particular buff/debuffs on my character, and vice versa for debuffs on my enemies.

Just to make it clear what I mean I'll attach this image I put together. I want to know how long my Retaliation is up for before I need to back off. I want the icon with secs counter and those glowing arcs that will disappear once it is down.

I also want to see what debuffs my enemy have. Not all of them just ones I'm interested in otherwise my screen will be covered in large icons.

No they wouldn't, they are for the most part terrible, it is absolutely hilarious that some games have addons that alert when you are standing in something, warn you about boss attacks, alert you when you need a potion, manage your cooldowns, identify opponents builds for you in PvP, then on top of that usually have faceroll macro systems, etc; in essence they play the game for you, which has resulted in a generation of MMORPG players who basically can't play.

Second this. It's astounding how badly people want to be babied through content.

I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

Well, in the long term add-ons like Recount etc. are more harm then good. Many people here argue for a productive use of such addons (optimising performance), and I completely agree with them. However, they seem to ignore the bigger picture. For each player who uses addons for self-reflection and self-improvement, there will be twenty using it for promoting their ego. Ultimately, in an anonymous anarchist environment of an online game such addons psychologically promote bad gameplay and ego-centric elitism. We all experienced it in WoW, I believe.

A possible way out would be to have a statistics which actually reflects your efficiency in the group. That is, instead of an ego-centric measure we need some sort of a socio-centric measure; instead 'how well did I perform?' a 'how valuable was I for the group?'. This would be an interesting addition to the game itself, one which would actually promote good gameplay.

addons transform the game into something different. I will bring the example of wow here, because I play it since vanilla. At first there were no addons needed. The rotations were very simple and you didn't had to track so many buffs/debuffs/timers (well except paladin had to track buffs on others , but other people informed him when need a buff). As addons started to created and more and more good addons were released the game was much more easy in a point that people complaint about how easy it is their class and how dump it is.

So developers had to make more complicated rotations and more complicated mechanics. And then better addons comes in and then more buff debuff to track..it was a race between addon developers and game developers, the first to make the game easier to the player and the second to provide more "intersting" and challenge rotations and boss mechanics. It ended up to play guitar hero. The whole gameplay now is to push the correct button that an addon will show you as fast as possible and if you miss it something bad happened. You ended up playing the UI and not the game.

Some people may love playing the UI, some others want to play the game. I want to look at boss face and my character animations, someone might want to look on 4-5 timers and push buttons that show up like guitar hero. No, I am not exaggerating here..addons change the game and guide developers.

The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

To be honest, although I like the UI and such, I think add-ons should be allowed and some tools given for the people who want to make them because not everyone sees things the same way. That's all there is.

Well, in the long term add-ons like Recount etc. are more harm then good.

recount was the worst thing for add-ons in wow imo. I used to raid with guys that would do silly things just to chase the dps meters. "Don't attack the boss, get the spike impaling someone!" but they don't because it screws with their rotations and therefore they won't top the recount charts.

it pissed me off. I am happy to leave recount behind and hope it never comes to GW2.

That's hardly a recount problem.
Also without recount same people would afk-autoattack - because - who cares?

This is what I mean by miss the bigger picture. Of course there problem is people who are ignorant etc. But what addons like recount do is reward them for being ignorant. Same thing for instance goes for pvp match rewards based solely on player kills (as it is usually in WoW) - it rewards people for ignoring the scenario objectives and fighting in the middle. IMO, what a game should do is employ tricks from pedagogical psychology and reward people only for doing 'right' thing, this way educating the ignorant. You will be surprised how many 'noobs' actually can become competent players when they are taught, the problem is a) nobody wants to teach them and b) they don't actually have to learn to feel good about themselves in a game which rewards them for kills/high dps etc. Ideally, a bad player should be punished for being bad which would force him to be more humble and learn