need help designing the "Black Market" edit.the idea: the edit would force players to interact with each other, to achieve developement of assets. new ways to earn creds: product depots, alien ship sales, hired assasin, protection, sector/base sales (player moves right in to made base, makes payments to seller), teaching...Well, that's a few to start with. There would be an element of real world economics... supply and demand would set prices. (ie: a player selling fuel off his 8 H's would have to sell below port price or adjust his price according to how much fuel he had or the extreme need of his customer.. ). A corp. that farms alien ships would of course feel it necessary to defend the grid around that alien world. So... some new types of dynamics and conflict would arise.How to make that happen in the game settings... ????Put the little grey cells to work... i can see some fun to be had in a more interactive universe.

Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:50 am

Yop_Solo

Gameop

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:27 amPosts: 123

Re: Black Market edit

I'm all behind you. A new game type is the way that game will stay alive...I'm not sure that the powerscripting players will bring more people to play to a old game in text only with some ansi graphic...

In 2 days, some powerscripting players succeed to bring me a down on my new gamestyle...So I will put a code of conduct that will reducing that type of players...Red and blue in the same teams isn't the way the original conceptor think that it should be... you are RED you dislike Blue and you are blue, you cannot be with red...

Vid Kid and his acolytes are very good guys, but i dislike very much their kind of playing... Technical scripting/full automated protocoles versus fun roleplay/gameplay... I like script to help to play, but script that will do all the job for you isn't the way i like the game... Sorry Vid, but it's my way of seeing...

_________________Dodger known as Yop Solo, Sysoptwgsdodgerbbs.ath.cxhttp://cyberquebec.ca/_layout/?uri=http://cyberquebec.ca/twgsdodgerbbs/

Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:50 pm

Parrothead

Commander

Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:00 amPosts: 1722Location: USA

Re: Black Market edit

Mixed corps have been the way of tradewars since the beginning. Blue to Colo and hunt Reds to cash was the way since BBS days. Roleplaying is WOW. TW is more like chess.

Mixed corps have been the way of tradewars since the beginning. Blue to Colo and hunt Reds to cash was the way since BBS days. Roleplaying is WOW. TW is more like chess.

It's your opinion Parrothead. When i was young, I played to this game and it wasn't a technical game with script... there was a software to help us to find good pair ports and manualy we could trade between each of them. The trader was going into the tavern on stardock and chating...

The RED and Blue weren't named like this. Red was evil and blue was good... so if you can define the two words you will be able to know that they cannot be in the same team. "Etymologiquement", a good cannot be with an evil and an evil have a problem with group without cheating them and treating them and be a good friend... so a real real evil cannot be in a group without steal them or cheat them... so with a good, it's impossible.

But if you play with a the limited sight (the technical TW2002 chess play), you will see a game with parameters that allow to be corp in evil with good, and other parameters that weren't think by JP because, the peeps weren't thinking as a powerscripter player will think... If the kind of players you are were being in '80 when he created the game, he should parameters the game with a lot of differences.

Anyways, i will put some limitation to the game and a code of conduct and if you will like to play to this game, you will need to respect it... maybe I will put a game A with the same thing that is shitting at the moment and a game B with my sight of the gaming.

_________________Dodger known as Yop Solo, Sysoptwgsdodgerbbs.ath.cxhttp://cyberquebec.ca/_layout/?uri=http://cyberquebec.ca/twgsdodgerbbs/

ahaha, I know... in real life, they aren't evil. But in the game, if you speak about alignment, you will see the difference in the "morality"... There is GOOD on one side and EVIL on the other side. The BLUE on one side and the RED on the other side... The color name revealed also the way of thinking about that morality.

So one side shouldn't be with the other side... If a Good is with a Evil, does the good is good or good is an evil ?You cannot be a good evil or a evil good... if you follow my thought. When you are a good with evil friends, you cannot stay good, cause you aren't the same kind fudamentaly. If we think only about colors, i understand the point of view. But the game doesn't speak about RED and BLUE players, it speak about "imperial" or known as FED that seen as good guys protecting the universe from the bad guy and the Ferrengi that are evil, so bad too... Like Star Trek with StarFleet and Ferrengis or others evil races.

A good book of philosphy should help these are using that way of playing to understand.

Anyways, i will not spend more time to argue on that, my idea is made and it's the way that I think it should help an old text game to stay alive with all beautiful graphic games around... and that topic isn't the good choice to do that...

With all my respect,

_________________Dodger known as Yop Solo, Sysoptwgsdodgerbbs.ath.cxhttp://cyberquebec.ca/_layout/?uri=http://cyberquebec.ca/twgsdodgerbbs/

Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:19 am

Promethius

Ambassador

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 amPosts: 3141Location: Kansas

Re: Black Market edit

Topic moved to Game Play Q&A since it evolved to the red/blue discussion. I will leave it to Thrawn or SG to move where they think it should be. I didn't want to chance killing the thread by splitting it out. Sorry, just a noob at this.

_________________

/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:01 pm

Promethius

Ambassador

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 amPosts: 3141Location: Kansas

Re: Black Market edit

Yop_Solo wrote:

Parrothead wrote:

Mixed corps have been the way of tradewars since the beginning. Blue to Colo and hunt Reds to cash was the way since BBS days. Roleplaying is WOW. TW is more like chess.

It's your opinion Parrothead. When i was young, I played to this game and it wasn't a technical game with script... there was a software to help us to find good pair ports and manualy we could trade between each of them. The trader was going into the tavern on stardock and chating...

The RED and Blue weren't named like this. Red was evil and blue was good... so if you can define the two words you will be able to know that they cannot be in the same team. "Etymologiquement", a good cannot be with an evil and an evil have a problem with group without cheating them and treating them and be a good friend... so a real real evil cannot be in a group without steal them or cheat them... so with a good, it's impossible.

But if you play with a the limited sight (the technical TW2002 chess play), you will see a game with parameters that allow to be corp in evil with good, and other parameters that weren't think by JP because, the peeps weren't thinking as a powerscripter player will think... If the kind of players you are were being in '80 when he created the game, he should parameters the game with a lot of differences.

Anyways, i will put some limitation to the game and a code of conduct and if you will like to play to this game, you will need to respect it... maybe I will put a game A with the same thing that is shitting at the moment and a game B with my sight of the gaming.

JP did not create Trade Wars. It was originally created by Chris Sherrick and written in BASIC (got copy somewhere). It was later ported to Pascal for WWIV BBS systems (also have a copy somewhere). Gary Martin from I think Castle Ravenloft BBS in Lawrence, KS took over the code and then JP became involved. There is a history of TW out somewhere that covers the game pretty well.

Red/Blue players coexist in the game under what I view as a mutual benefit, much the way people have looked the other way when an "evil" is making money for a town (Las Vegas in its early times maybe). Money talks in the game and in real life.

The game asseses a penalty on blue/red corps by reducing experience at extern. This really isn't a penalty for a blue since they usually become fed safe, but it is for the red. A blue (good) kills another blue and they take an alignment hit, maybe to the point of becomng red (evil). The game will penalize the former blue if he is in a Fed ship if he moves.

Main thing is to run your server as you wish and players will either play or they won't. Different concepts will appeal to different players.

_________________

/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:20 pm

Vader

Lieutenant Commander

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 2:00 amPosts: 708Location: Arkansas

Re: Black Market edit

Yop_Solo wrote:

ahaha, I know... in real life, they aren't evil. But in the game, if you speak about alignment, you will see the difference in the "morality"... There is GOOD on one side and EVIL on the other side. The BLUE on one side and the RED on the other side... The color name revealed also the way of thinking about that morality.

So one side shouldn't be with the other side... If a Good is with a Evil, does the good is good or good is an evil ?You cannot be a good evil or a evil good... if you follow my thought. When you are a good with evil friends, you cannot stay good, cause you aren't the same kind fudamentaly. If we think only about colors, i understand the point of view. But the game doesn't speak about RED and BLUE players, it speak about "imperial" or known as FED that seen as good guys protecting the universe from the bad guy and the Ferrengi that are evil, so bad too... Like Star Trek with StarFleet and Ferrengis or others evil races.

A good book of philosphy should help these are using that way of playing to understand.

Anyways, i will not spend more time to argue on that, my idea is made and it's the way that I think it should help an old text game to stay alive with all beautiful graphic games around... and that topic isn't the good choice to do that...

With all my respect,

Its a game. There are two main ways to play the game. If you want to dabble in philosohy, knock yourself out. So if a player goes back and forth during the day as both red and blue, are they schizo? Does it really matter?

Promethius : I wasn't aware of the original creator and all the history of Tw2002. But, I'm happy to know it now. My point stay whatever the creator was at the starting point. Anyways, there is nothing to add.

Vader : Thanks you for your pertinent questionning. I tried only to explain my point of view. As I said, i don't want to argue more on the subject.

_________________Dodger known as Yop Solo, Sysoptwgsdodgerbbs.ath.cxhttp://cyberquebec.ca/_layout/?uri=http://cyberquebec.ca/twgsdodgerbbs/

Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:32 am

Promethius

Ambassador

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:00 amPosts: 3141Location: Kansas

Re: Black Market edit

One thing the discussion has made me think and somewhat in line with what Yop_Solo is talking about is that a mixed corp would be somewhat more realistic in regard to red/blue if it was the alignment that changed instead of experience. It would make some interesting situations if alignments were such that a blue went red at extern or the red when blue. A whole lot more attacks on pers figs to flip alignments....A blue running a twarp attack script suddenly flipping red at extern while in a Fed ship would be kind of funny.

_________________

/ Promethius / Enigma / Wolfen /

"A man who has no skills can be taught, a man who has no honor has nothing."

Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:12 am

Big D

Veteran Op

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pmPosts: 5025

Re: Black Market edit

Gary Martin added some documentation that was intended to make the game more attractive, but the game has evolved into what it is today and you have to play the game the way it is programmed, and not the way it was originally intended as game play. There have been some great players over the years and among them they have figured out the most efficient ways to play TW to win. Sure, you can roll play, but the only way that will work is if no one in the game is actually intend on winning and is more interested in a "renassance fair" type scenario. I'm not trying to start an arguement or trying to discourage your way of thinking, but unless JP does some serious changes to TW, the style of play you are talking about has it's limits.

Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:41 am

Big D

Veteran Op

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pmPosts: 5025

Re: Black Market edit

Promethius wrote:

One thing the discussion has made me think and somewhat in line with what Yop_Solo is talking about is that a mixed corp would be somewhat more realistic in regard to red/blue if it was the alignment that changed instead of experience. It would make some interesting situations if alignments were such that a blue went red at extern or the red when blue. A whole lot more attacks on pers figs to flip alignments....A blue running a twarp attack script suddenly flipping red at extern while in a Fed ship would be kind of funny.

Actually Prom, this could easily be done by server side script. What would even be more dramatic is if it were done on a random basis instead of just at extern. For instance, maybe once or twice a day a script randomly checks mixed corp alignment and if the corp alignment is positive, flip all reds to 0 alignment, or if the corp alignment is negative, flip all blues to 0 alignment.

Mixed corps have been the way of tradewars since the beginning. Blue to Colo and hunt Reds to cash was the way since BBS days. Roleplaying is WOW. TW is more like chess.

It's your opinion Parrothead. When i was young, I played to this game and it wasn't a technical game with script... there was a software to help us to find good pair ports and manualy we could trade between each of them. The trader was going into the tavern on stardock and chating...

But if you play with a the limited sight (the technical TW2002 chess play), you will see a game with parameters that allow to be corp in evil with good, and other parameters that weren't think by JP because, the peeps weren't thinking as a powerscripter player will think... If the kind of players you are were being in '80 when he created the game, he should parameters the game with a lot of differences.

Every few years, a poster writes that scripts were not in use in TW way back when. This is simply untrue, they go back to the earliest days. Phil Crown wrote a suite of scripts in Telix SALT in the early 90's, and released them to the public domain 1n 1993. I restarted playing in 1996 and almost immediately started writing in SALT (after being disgusted with Zoc), I was too cheap to buy a helper. Several others were scripting at the time, SALT, Qmodem Procomm and I think Telemate.

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