Thanks for adding your usual even tempered response Rob. If you do leave you will be missed here - your knowledge of coffee gear in general was an inspiration for me. It is a shame that forum has landed in this state. Between the constant spammers and some closed minded regulars any real discussion is becoming almost impossible.

I see a couple posts now calling for moderators to swoop in and stop the madness. Yet another attempt to move conversation away from the four coffee makers tested in the Seattle Coffee Gear video. First they discredit the results, then the methodology, then me for posting it. Now they insist it "has gone on long enough" - what has? The constant attacks on the results by a small number of posters - one who devotes a section of a private blog to one machine, another who has almost zero posts unrelated to the same machine, and another who calls himself a "professional" who has as his forum avatar the same machine.

Coincidentally this is the same machine that came in last place in the taste test in the video.

Eric, the concerns I had were not for the taste test results. That stuff is pretty subjective anyway, and yes, Kat likes half-n-half in her drinks.

My concerns were for the lack of civility and unwise choices of words, by you and some others. We like our coffee hot, not with flames. You seemed somewhat gratified that the Brazen came in last. Fine with me, but it set some people off.

My screen name "Prof" is for my chosen field of math education. I change the avatar about twice a year, btw. I think the Brazen is a great machine, but I use an espresso machine for my morning fix since I just have one cup of coffee before leaving for work and the Brazen is best suited for 6 cups minimum. It gets weekend work.

My concerns were for the lack of civility and unwise choices of words, by you and some others. We like our coffee hot, not with flames. You seemed somewhat gratified that the Brazen came in last. Fine with me, but it set some people off.

Then we do have common ground - I was not so happy with the incendiary remarks so I did exploit the emotional responses - why wouldn't I? - If you post and see a disturbing pattern to the responses I expect you would wonder why and seek to discover what is up with that as well.

So what are your experiences with other machines compared to your current choice? Your voice (and everyone else's voice) is as valid as those in the SCG video. Taken as intended this thread provides you an open platform to discuss comparisons.

I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?

Nice. So I'll make zpologies for my part in further degenerating the thread (escalating remarks, getting spikers for gail's vids, chandler etc), so let's just take the comparison for what it is, one person's opinion & ymmv of course.

If we take out the issue of paper vs permanent filter I wonder where this goes? I use Melitta cone filters when speedy clean up matters in the TV and Bonavita. My preference though is to brew with a SwissGold or Kaffeologie permanent filter. I like the oils in the cup and the grounds in the bottom of the last cup are minimal with a decent grinder.

To add to this, lately I have been incorporating my Hario V60-2 and Able Kone III to the Technivorm since the open design allows for this type of experimentation. This is a method I would recommend trying if you have the parts already on hand.

I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?

I consider my Mokka Brew from Krups (Model 468) to be a version of auto drip brewer - certainly auto anyway. This brewer requires a bit of tweaking but can make an interesting and tasty cup of coffee - very simple though, only an on/off switch. I use paper filters with it since I can't find any permanent filter for it.

I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?

I have a lot of experience with a variety of medicore drip machines. I just received the Bonavita for the office and here's why. It's simple and it's a good price considering it's status. Anyone in the office can use it, easy to comprehend, compact so it does not overtake kitchen, and really easy to clean. Then of course there is the consistent and approuved temperature. Personally I would love the temp to be adjustable but I think the Brazen would confuse my collegues.

Just saying, everything has it's place. I look forward to seeing how it lasts in a 2-3 pot per day use environment as durability is another factor I believe to be of extreme importance in selecting a machine.

Anyway, Just got one of the machines and had considered two of the others before this thread came out, and now that I have one, I wnated to jump in.

Here's another question: when I went to buy filters I noticed "Bamboo" filters by Melita. Anyone have any experience with these?

But I agree, that in the case of this particular thread, it has been allowed to go too far and there are a number of posts that are below the (IMO) aceptable level of decorum and decency (let alone topical relevancy) of even this fairly-open forum.

I agree, but whenever possible, we attempt to encourage members to sort it out. More than one moderator here feels even stronger than I in this regard, as I'm the oldest, and perhaps the most "old-school."Personally I believe the link is a bad example of a so called "comparison." I slightly disagree with the poster as regards the HB/CG comparison regarding civility. If this link had been posted there, I can ASSURE you the poster would have been excoriated, if the members felt justified in doing so. I've been a long time member there, and love it's vibe, but they can just as testy as over here.

Again, PERSONALLY, not knowing the history (if any) between Eric (the OP) and Joe Behm (Behmor) I can't comment as to intent as regards posting a link to the video.Even if there indeed IS a "not so good" history between the OP and Joe Behm, Mark Prince, CG's owner nor the Moderators make it a habit of deleting threads such as this one, or even individual comments unless there is an egregious personal insult, profanity, or if the Thread is a willful attempt to bad mouth a product, vendor, or service. Even then, it would take a majority of us, including Mark to make that determination.I do think there was certainly some stuff out of line, but we have a pretty "wide" line.

I will be happy to accept a PM from anyone who feels they were PERSONALLY insulted, and they can copy/paste the link page so I can see both sides.

I doubt I would be "excoriated" over on H-B. They are less about being fanboys and more about the topics at hand. Until someone comes up with another comparison to refute the results found in the SCG video, then it stands alone as a comparison of what the 4 brewers look an perform like. Tom from Sweet Maria's could post something similar since he sells three of the four machines, has a web cam, and isn't afraid to use it.

If someone feels compelled, they can order the machines and post their own comparison - maybe they will end up with different results, maybe not. In defense of the permanent vs paper filtered argument, they used the machines the way they are sold. This video is aimed at potential customers so using the machines as designed is to be expected. Once again, send a payment, set up the machines how you like, and post your results - we are all free to express our informed opinion.

Keepitsimple (the man behind the line) and myself have two of these four machines as well as some other brewers handy. I speak from an informed position with regard to two of the machines - the Technivorm and the Bonavita - both are capable of making a very good cup of coffee. If I had one of the other two at my disposal I would speak to their cup quality as well - I don't so I won't.

JohnLyn Said:

I have a lot of experience with a variety of medicore drip machines. I just received the Bonavita for the office and here's why. It's simple and it's a good price considering it's status. Anyone in the office can use it, easy to comprehend, compact so it does not overtake kitchen, and really easy to clean. Then of course there is the consistent and approuved temperature. Personally I would love the temp to be adjustable but I think the Brazen would confuse my collegues.

Just saying, everything has it's place. I look forward to seeing how it lasts in a 2-3 pot per day use environment as durability is another factor I believe to be of extreme importance in selecting a machine.

Anyway, Just got one of the machines and had considered two of the others before this thread came out, and now that I have one, I wnated to jump in.

Here's another question: when I went to buy filters I noticed "Bamboo" filters by Melita. Anyone have any experience with these?

Ok, post that video over there. By the way, you should be careful about the use of "fanboy." We, including YOU are all guilty at one time or another of seeking validation for our choices.

Until someone comes up with another comparison to refute the results found in the SCG video, then it stands alone as a comparison of what the 4 brewers look an perform like. Tom from Sweet Maria's could post something similar since he sells three of the four machines, has a web cam, and isn't afraid to use it.

Yes, but you must admit Tom's opinion would HAVE to be considered far more expert in these matters. (with deference to the ladies at SCG)

If someone feels compelled, they can order the machines and post their own comparison - maybe they will end up with different results, maybe not. In defense of the permanent vs paper filtered argument, they used the machines the way they are sold. This video is aimed at potential customers so using the machines as designed is to be expected. Once again, send a payment, set up the machines how you like, and post your results - we are all free to express our informed opinion.

First, in the manual (if you had one, or bothered to download the pdf, if only for informational reasons) Joe mentions the use of a paper filter. The permanent filter is provided as a BONUS. The ladies should have known better. Try a Chemex with a Cone, or paper. BIG difference.BTW, your not so subtle use of "informed opinion"( I assume pointed in my direction) is disingenuous at best, insulting at worst. I'll disregard this for the moment.

Keepitsimple (the man behind the line) and myself have two of these four machines as well as some other brewers handy. I speak from an informed position with regard to two of the machines - the Technivorm and the Bonavita - both are capable of making a very good cup of coffee. "If I had one of the other two at my disposal I would speak to their cup quality as well - I don't so I won't."

Eric, I'm sure we'll all be fine if you don't. As regards whether or not I'm informed, I'd say that NO one knows everything, and I'm always open to new things, new ways, and improving my skills. If that makes me uniformed, so be it.

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