Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Legend of Korra: PANIC!!!! Episode 4 Is Uploaded!!!!

Posts

I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.

I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.

And really whats the point?

I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.

That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.

They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"

See I agree with this. I think this whole learning energy bending idea works great for Aang's story but I think he should have had to seek it out. I don't think the Lion Turtle should have come to Aang and apparently mind-controlled him into getting on the his back.

And I don't like that the Lion Turtle's motivations are completely speculative which would not be an issue if it had been Aang that sought him out.

I don't really have a problem with the Lion Turtle being unexplained when it's an inherently mystical and mythological being. If they explained everything about "the spirit world" it would just be "the regular world".

But he's just a animal that can bend. Like the Bison or dragons but much, much older and his actions are strange.

I don't think you can really call the lion turtle "just an animal that can bend". He says himself "In the era before the Avatar, we bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves..."

It's the oldest living creature in the Avatar universe, and exists in both the spirit and the real world, and is as close as is revealed to being a god.

Skull Man, you are not as right as you think you are. And the fact that you don't back up what you're saying makes you just as bad as pony, who makes up points to argue against, or buttlord, who has the reading comprehension of a small child.

And then you follow up by saying "I'd rather act like a twat than just ignore you" and are gleefully proud of this.

I was thinking about end of series Aang Avatar State, not before he got the hang of it(like Korra will most likely have to learn) Avatar state.

He never got the hang of the Avatar state. He was not in control of it at all. He was shooting to kill on Ozai and almost Executed him during the state until he turned it off.

So, I just finished up rewatching this series, and some thoughts on this point Munkus. TLA spoilers follow

At the very end of the Ozai fight after Aang energybends the phoenix king's abilities away, we're given the idea that he's mastered the Avatar state. It isn't explicitly stated, but throughout the series whenever we're shown old Avatars who draws on the power of the state (having mastered it), it doesn't show them permanently glowing like Aang does but their eyes just glow once and then they can do crazy things. After wiping the floor with Ozai but making the conscious decision to leave the state, Aang does something similar when he raises the ocean and puts out all the fires. His eyes glow briefly and he does a crazy thing. I think this indicates his mastery of the avatar state.

Also after watching this, some general thoughts on Amon and the most recent episode of Korra. (spoilers as well for that)

The scene where Aang energy bends Ozai's power away isn't just different from what Amon does because of the form he uses, it also seems totally different in practice. Aang's energy bending is much more dramatic, and the show seems to say there is more to it than you just do it an bam bending gone. It talks about how the energy bender needs strong will and we see what appears to be a fight between Ozai's red energy and Aang blue. I think this indicates that both parties get a say in how the energy bending is performed, and you can't take someone's bending away without them giving you a fight.

Amon doesn't seem to have to do that. He just presses some points and bam, it's gone. No flashy lights, no energy combat, he just presses on them in a certain way and it's over. This could indicate Amon doesn't actually energy bend to remove their power, that he's got a more efficient way of doing it, or that what he's doing won't turn out to actually be permanent because it isn't the genuine article.

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I have been thinking this

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

There's going to be some kind of catalyst that is going to force her to acknowledge the spiritual side of being the avatar. My money is either going to be having her bending taken away, or an activation of the Avatar state similar to Aang's, like Tenzin's kids being threatened or something like that.

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I have been thinking this

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

There's going to be some kind of catalyst that is going to force her to acknowledge the spiritual side of being the avatar. My money is either going to be having her bending taken away, or an activation of the Avatar state similar to Aang's, like Tenzin's kids being threatened or something like that.

I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.

I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.

And really whats the point?

I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.

That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.

They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"

See I agree with this. I think this whole learning energy bending idea works great for Aang's story but I think he should have had to seek it out. I don't think the Lion Turtle should have come to Aang and apparently mind-controlled him into getting on the his back.

And I don't like that the Lion Turtle's motivations are completely speculative which would not be an issue if it had been Aang that sought him out.

I don't really have a problem with the Lion Turtle being unexplained when it's an inherently mystical and mythological being. If they explained everything about "the spirit world" it would just be "the regular world".

But he's just a animal that can bend. Like the Bison or dragons but much, much older and his actions are strange.

I don't think you can really call the lion turtle "just an animal that can bend". He says himself "In the era before the Avatar, we bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves..."

It's the oldest living creature in the Avatar universe, and exists in both the spirit and the real world, and is as close as is revealed to being a god.

Demi-god. It's wonderful word. It implies immense power but with all the advantages of being a mortal being with a personality and an actual relationship to the material world without necessarily being omniscient and annoying perfect.

It's like what happened with dragons in fantasy. One moment, they're carnal engines of mass destruction and now they're these wise and and well-regarded race of godlike beings. Which is stupid. I want my Beowulf dragons back.

I was thinking about end of series Aang Avatar State, not before he got the hang of it(like Korra will most likely have to learn) Avatar state.

He never got the hang of the Avatar state. He was not in control of it at all. He was shooting to kill on Ozai and almost Executed him during the state until he turned it off.

So, I just finished up rewatching this series, and some thoughts on this point Munkus. TLA spoilers follow

At the very end of the Ozai fight after Aang energybends the phoenix king's abilities away, we're given the idea that he's mastered the Avatar state. It isn't explicitly stated, but throughout the series whenever we're shown old Avatars who draws on the power of the state (having mastered it), it doesn't show them permanently glowing like Aang does but their eyes just glow once and then they can do crazy things. After wiping the floor with Ozai but making the conscious decision to leave the state, Aang does something similar when he raises the ocean and puts out all the fires. His eyes glow briefly and he does a crazy thing. I think this indicates his mastery of the avatar state.

Also after watching this, some general thoughts on Amon and the most recent episode of Korra. (spoilers as well for that)

The scene where Aang energy bends Ozai's power away isn't just different from what Amon does because of the form he uses, it also seems totally different in practice. Aang's energy bending is much more dramatic, and the show seems to say there is more to it than you just do it an bam bending gone. It talks about how the energy bender needs strong will and we see what appears to be a fight between Ozai's red energy and Aang blue. I think this indicates that both parties get a say in how the energy bending is performed, and you can't take someone's bending away without them giving you a fight.

Amon doesn't seem to have to do that. He just presses some points and bam, it's gone. No flashy lights, no energy combat, he just presses on them in a certain way and it's over. This could indicate Amon doesn't actually energy bend to remove their power, that he's got a more efficient way of doing it, or that what he's doing won't turn out to actually be permanent because it isn't the genuine article.

No idea which or if any, just some general thoughts.

I took it as

Amon being strong-willed, and random gangsters, obviously, being not so much.

Also after watching this, some general thoughts on Amon and the most recent episode of Korra. (spoilers as well for that)

The scene where Aang energy bends Ozai's power away isn't just different from what Amon does because of the form he uses, it also seems totally different in practice. Aang's energy bending is much more dramatic, and the show seems to say there is more to it than you just do it an bam bending gone. It talks about how the energy bender needs strong will and we see what appears to be a fight between Ozai's red energy and Aang blue. I think this indicates that both parties get a say in how the energy bending is performed, and you can't take someone's bending away without them giving you a fight.

Amon doesn't seem to have to do that. He just presses some points and bam, it's gone. No flashy lights, no energy combat, he just presses on them in a certain way and it's over. This could indicate Amon doesn't actually energy bend to remove their power, that he's got a more efficient way of doing it, or that what he's doing won't turn out to actually be permanent because it isn't the genuine article.

No idea which or if any, just some general thoughts.

I'm in agreement about how permanent it is. Energy bending seemed to take way more effort, and it makes way more sense if Amon is doing some sort of major blockage that would require some sort of spirit stuff to get around. If spirit world stuff gave someone a power, spirit world stuff can fix it.

Alternatively, Tenzin did do a shifty look thing when Korra mentioned Amon taking away peoples power, so who knows?

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I have been thinking this

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

There's going to be some kind of catalyst that is going to force her to acknowledge the spiritual side of being the avatar. My money is either going to be having her bending taken away, or an activation of the Avatar state similar to Aang's, like Tenzin's kids being threatened or something like that.

she can't get debended

how will the fire ferrets get to the finals???

fire ferrets will win the finals. korra will revel in the glory and the riches which her bending prowess has brought her. in the moment of her greatest arrogance, she will be exposed to the debending and lose everything. cue spiritual awakening.

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I have been thinking this

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

There's going to be some kind of catalyst that is going to force her to acknowledge the spiritual side of being the avatar. My money is either going to be having her bending taken away, or an activation of the Avatar state similar to Aang's, like Tenzin's kids being threatened or something like that.

I was thinking about end of series Aang Avatar State, not before he got the hang of it(like Korra will most likely have to learn) Avatar state.

He never got the hang of the Avatar state. He was not in control of it at all. He was shooting to kill on Ozai and almost Executed him during the state until he turned it off.

So, I just finished up rewatching this series, and some thoughts on this point Munkus. TLA spoilers follow

At the very end of the Ozai fight after Aang energybends the phoenix king's abilities away, we're given the idea that he's mastered the Avatar state. It isn't explicitly stated, but throughout the series whenever we're shown old Avatars who draws on the power of the state (having mastered it), it doesn't show them permanently glowing like Aang does but their eyes just glow once and then they can do crazy things. After wiping the floor with Ozai but making the conscious decision to leave the state, Aang does something similar when he raises the ocean and puts out all the fires. His eyes glow briefly and he does a crazy thing. I think this indicates his mastery of the avatar state.

Also after watching this, some general thoughts on Amon and the most recent episode of Korra. (spoilers as well for that)

The scene where Aang energy bends Ozai's power away isn't just different from what Amon does because of the form he uses, it also seems totally different in practice. Aang's energy bending is much more dramatic, and the show seems to say there is more to it than you just do it an bam bending gone. It talks about how the energy bender needs strong will and we see what appears to be a fight between Ozai's red energy and Aang blue. I think this indicates that both parties get a say in how the energy bending is performed, and you can't take someone's bending away without them giving you a fight.

Amon doesn't seem to have to do that. He just presses some points and bam, it's gone. No flashy lights, no energy combat, he just presses on them in a certain way and it's over. This could indicate Amon doesn't actually energy bend to remove their power, that he's got a more efficient way of doing it, or that what he's doing won't turn out to actually be permanent because it isn't the genuine article.

No idea which or if any, just some general thoughts.

I took it as

Amon being strong-willed, and random gangsters, obviously, being not so much.

True

But we also don't get any sort of glow or anything. Of course, in TLA, it was the climactic episode and the ultimate moment in the fight versus the final antagonist of the series. They pretty much had to make it flashy and dramatic, so we could just take it as no more than that and energy bending can happen without all the fanfare. I dunno, it just seems pretty different and I'm not convinced it's everything that Amon claims.

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I have been thinking this

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

There's going to be some kind of catalyst that is going to force her to acknowledge the spiritual side of being the avatar. My money is either going to be having her bending taken away, or an activation of the Avatar state similar to Aang's, like Tenzin's kids being threatened or something like that.

she can't get debended

how will the fire ferrets get to the finals???

fire ferrets will win the finals. korra will revel in the glory and the riches which her bending prowess has brought her. in the moment of her greatest arrogance, she will be exposed to the debending and lose everything. cue spiritual awakening.

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I have been thinking this

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree

There's going to be some kind of catalyst that is going to force her to acknowledge the spiritual side of being the avatar. My money is either going to be having her bending taken away, or an activation of the Avatar state similar to Aang's, like Tenzin's kids being threatened or something like that.

she can't get debended

how will the fire ferrets get to the finals???

fire ferrets will win the finals. korra will revel in the glory and the riches which her bending prowess has brought her. in the moment of her greatest arrogance, she will be exposed to the debending and lose everything. cue spiritual awakening.

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I still maintain that she'd just wind-up being immune. Because you know, she has the spirit of the Avatar. It's immortal. It's been passed down through eons because of its immense power and durability.

she's not immune to chi blocking

Chi blocking and getting your bending taken away are two different things.

I'm with Twenty Sided. I think if Amon tries to take her bending the Avatar Spirit is going to show up and tell him to step the fuck off.

...oh. Oh shit. That would be awesome and terrifying both. Spoiled because my speculation is always 100% right.

Amon tries to debend her, she fights, it looks like he wins, her bending gets choked off...

And then her eyes glow. And that will be the first time in the show she accesses the Avatar State.

And then, once the Avatar is done going on a rampage and causes lots of property damage and probably a few innocent deaths, it goes away...and Korra can't bend by herself anymore. So she has to deal with a) going on a Koizilla-style rampage and b) not being able to bend unless she's willing to go on a rampage again.

The stuff I hear people back up the points? About it not coming out of nowhere because of other things that came out of nowhere? That was not the impression I got when I watched those episodes. Those episodes made sense within the framework they were given and the story they were telling. Fuck, someone mentioned the fucking dragons as an example when the dragons were introduced as the firebending teachers in pretty much the same breath as the problem of Zuko losing his bending and what to do about it.

The entire series was building to the conflict with Aang and Ozai. Introducing energybending at the end changed that conflict in a way I do not appreciate. I would have rather had him finish the conflict as it had been foreshadowed, and I was looking forward to seeing how Aang would handle Ozai. The fact that energybending was an option changed the very nature of their conflict, so much so that I don't think he had to make a true decision about whether or not to kill Ozai.

I wanted to see his personal struggle and his success in solving that problem, like the series had been building up to. When energybending was introduced out of the blue it robbed that seminal moment of its impact for me.

That's why I don't like it. That's why I feel it was a cop out.

Steam name: munkus_beaver
WiiU: munkusbeaver and Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): 0619-4510-9772
Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
Twitter which gives health updates and the like: https://twitter.com/MunkusBeaver
Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/

Also, that's the last I'll speak on that. I promise. Have the last word if you want, I am done!

Steam name: munkus_beaver
WiiU: munkusbeaver and Nintendo ID (3DS thinger): 0619-4510-9772
Blizzard thing: munkus#1952
Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
Twitter which gives health updates and the like: https://twitter.com/MunkusBeaver
Please give to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America: http://www.ccfa.org/

Also after watching this, some general thoughts on Amon and the most recent episode of Korra. (spoilers as well for that)

The scene where Aang energy bends Ozai's power away isn't just different from what Amon does because of the form he uses, it also seems totally different in practice. Aang's energy bending is much more dramatic, and the show seems to say there is more to it than you just do it an bam bending gone. It talks about how the energy bender needs strong will and we see what appears to be a fight between Ozai's red energy and Aang blue. I think this indicates that both parties get a say in how the energy bending is performed, and you can't take someone's bending away without them giving you a fight.

Amon doesn't seem to have to do that. He just presses some points and bam, it's gone. No flashy lights, no energy combat, he just presses on them in a certain way and it's over. This could indicate Amon doesn't actually energy bend to remove their power, that he's got a more efficient way of doing it, or that what he's doing won't turn out to actually be permanent because it isn't the genuine article.

No idea which or if any, just some general thoughts.

I'm in agreement about how permanent it is. Energy bending seemed to take way more effort, and it makes way more sense if Amon is doing some sort of major blockage that would require some sort of spirit stuff to get around. If spirit world stuff gave someone a power, spirit world stuff can fix it.

Alternatively, Tenzin did do a shifty look thing when Korra mentioned Amon taking away peoples power, so who knows?

I dislike this argument because it assigns the "spiritual" a special immunity to injury. We have no evidence of that. For all you know, it's about as easy to reverse this damage as it would to reverse the damage from a lobotomy. (Jabbin' a metal spike into your frontal lobe and mashing it up.)

I was thinking about end of series Aang Avatar State, not before he got the hang of it(like Korra will most likely have to learn) Avatar state.

He never got the hang of the Avatar state. He was not in control of it at all. He was shooting to kill on Ozai and almost Executed him during the state until he turned it off.

So, I just finished up rewatching this series, and some thoughts on this point Munkus. TLA spoilers follow

At the very end of the Ozai fight after Aang energybends the phoenix king's abilities away, we're given the idea that he's mastered the Avatar state. It isn't explicitly stated, but throughout the series whenever we're shown old Avatars who draws on the power of the state (having mastered it), it doesn't show them permanently glowing like Aang does but their eyes just glow once and then they can do crazy things. After wiping the floor with Ozai but making the conscious decision to leave the state, Aang does something similar when he raises the ocean and puts out all the fires. His eyes glow briefly and he does a crazy thing. I think this indicates his mastery of the avatar state.

Also after watching this, some general thoughts on Amon and the most recent episode of Korra. (spoilers as well for that)

The scene where Aang energy bends Ozai's power away isn't just different from what Amon does because of the form he uses, it also seems totally different in practice. Aang's energy bending is much more dramatic, and the show seems to say there is more to it than you just do it an bam bending gone. It talks about how the energy bender needs strong will and we see what appears to be a fight between Ozai's red energy and Aang blue. I think this indicates that both parties get a say in how the energy bending is performed, and you can't take someone's bending away without them giving you a fight.

Amon doesn't seem to have to do that. He just presses some points and bam, it's gone. No flashy lights, no energy combat, he just presses on them in a certain way and it's over. This could indicate Amon doesn't actually energy bend to remove their power, that he's got a more efficient way of doing it, or that what he's doing won't turn out to actually be permanent because it isn't the genuine article.

No idea which or if any, just some general thoughts.

I took it as

Amon being strong-willed, and random gangsters, obviously, being not so much.

True

But we also don't get any sort of glow or anything. Of course, in TLA, it was the climactic episode and the ultimate moment in the fight versus the final antagonist of the series. They pretty much had to make it flashy and dramatic, so we could just take it as no more than that and energy bending can happen without all the fanfare. I dunno, it just seems pretty different and I'm not convinced it's everything that Amon claims.

I figure he's doing something different and that show he put on where he got the other guys to bend at him was actually a requirement for his technique to work

ya know that actually sounds like a very plausible theory for what's going to be a major plot point in legend of korra

korra gets "debended" by amon and struggles with her being the avatar seemingly without any bending powers. a huge, huge bummer. cue korra exploring the spiritual side of what it means to be the avatar ending with some revelation gained from a journey to the spirit world. once she gains spiritual maturity, she regains her bending powers and more.

I still maintain that she'd just wind-up being immune. Because you know, she has the spirit of the Avatar. It's immortal. It's been passed down through eons because of its immense power and durability.

she's not immune to chi blocking

Chi blocking and getting your bending taken away are two different things.

I'm with Twenty Sided. I think if Amon tries to take her bending the Avatar Spirit is going to show up and tell him to step the fuck off.

I'm not convinced they are different things

what Amon did looked pretty distinct from energybending

it is possible that Amon has learned an advanced sort of nerve pinching that takes bending away by blocking chi.