USB 3.0 could soon drive monitors, hard drives with 100W of power

A USB specification due for release early next year would increase the power …

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices, allowing users to power some of the more demanding gadgets on their desks without additional power supplies. The USB 3.0 Promoter Group announced that the standard would allow USB 3.0 ports to power and charge devices like notebook PCs and would remain backwards compatible with USB 2.0 devices.

USB 3.0 ports introduced high data transfer speeds of up to 5Gb/s to compatible components, and have also been able to maintain currents and voltages up to 900mA at 5V for a maximum power output of 4.5W. This was about twice the maximum power output of USB 2.0 ports, but a current USB 3.0 port would still struggle to power most external hard drives.

Since the new spec raises gives USB 3.0 more than twenty times its old power input and output, the slate of products the ports could power is much larger and includes monitors, desk lamps, and even notebook PCs. The beefier ports could clear up some of the crowding at wall outlets, and if adopted as the main power connector for items like laptops, could help eradicate proprietary ports.

The USB 3.0 Promoter Group says the new standard will be ready for industry evaluation at the end of 2011 and is set for release to manufacturers in early 2012.

You are still going to need a power supply somewhere that is large enough to power all of your devices.

15" laptops can use 85W by themselves, so I don't see much power being left for other things if the laptop is powered over USB.

If a laptop was powered over a non-USB cord, you might be able to power an external monitor and external hard drive over USB. This would still limit the size of monitor that could be powered (some monitors use >100W by themselves), and would limit the number of external hard drives (at 10-35W each). To make things worse, you would need a giant power supply to power the laptop plus all of the peripherals (~250W), and the power supply would give off so much heat that it might need fans of its own.

I really like the idea of cutting down on cables, but all of this power has to come from somewhere, and is never going to work if you tried to run a laptop on its battery. Desktops, however, might be a different story.

Ugh, first they don't go far enough with USB 3.0 (keeping the pathetic trickle of electrons from USB 2.0), now they go way too far in the opposite direction, speccing out ports that will never be viable on a laptop and thus won't be supported.

What's wrong with say 10 or 15 watts? Enough to run a HDD or charge a cellphone without breaking the power budget of a machine?

/me wonders how to pass 100W of power over a USB cable without significant heating or fire hazard.

No problem, it will just mean that the cable will be as thick as your thumb.

So are they planning to key these connectors or somehow differentiate them so some newbie doesn't deplete their laptop battery in 15 minutes while attempting to power a desk lamp? It seems like 'USB' isn't going to be so 'Universal' in the future.

You are still going to need a power supply somewhere that is large enough to power all of your devices.

15" laptops can use 85W by themselves, so I don't see much power being left for other things if the laptop is powered over USB.

If a laptop was powered over a non-USB cord, you might be able to power an external monitor and external hard drive over USB. This would still limit the size of monitor that could be powered (some monitors use >100W by themselves), and would limit the number of external hard drives (at 10-35W each). To make things worse, you would need a giant power supply to power the laptop plus all of the peripherals (~250W), and the power supply would give off so much heat that it might need fans of its own.

I really like the idea of cutting down on cables, but all of this power has to come from somewhere, and is never going to work if you tried to run a laptop on its battery. Desktops, however, might be a different story.

For the desktop I can see the upside of having a central power supply as the efficiency will be greatly enhanced. There could also be marginal savings from not having to include a transformer in ever single device.

Did USB just jump the shark? 100W and the ability to run light bulbs... what happened to mobile devices (power sipping) are the future? Will this entail a larger connector? If not this is going to go over like a lead balloon...

Wouldn't this be a double edged sword to external device makers and the consumer? Sure usb3 will be able to power everything, but for all the people that still don't have usb3, suddenly their purchases are arriving without a power adapter. Manufacturers are going to want to drop the power supply, cheaper to leave it out, less weight for shipping, but they will inevitably have angry customers calling about not being able to power their device or having larger than normal returns from people who can't read the package. They may even start carrying two versions which is a waste of effort when the difference is the type of cable included.

Or they could, I'm going out on a limb here, just make it USB 4 and boost the data transfer while they're going to the trouble of making a new spec. They could even market it as "not that big a jump from USB 3" to help those people who already bought USB 3 devices not feel like they got the crappy version of USB 3.

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices

USB 3.0 ports introduced high data transfer speeds of up to 5Gb/s to compatible components, and have also been able to maintain currents and voltages up to 900mA at 5V for a maximum power output of 4.5W.

Since the new spec raises USB 3.0 power input and output by two orders of magnitude,

Order of magnitude understanding fail.

Quote:

So are they planning to key these connectors or somehow differentiate them so some newbie doesn't deplete their laptop battery in 15 minutes while attempting to power a desk lamp? It seems like 'USB' isn't going to be so 'Universal' in the future.

I imagine it would give the same kind of error that current USB implementations give when a device requests more power than the hub or controller can give. USB device don't just naively connect to the bus expecting full power, you know, it has to be negotiated with the controller.

Har! I was just about to jump on to say that. Glad somebody beat me to it. It's about 1.35 orders of magnitude greater. Two orders of magnitude would be about 450W, enough to power a giant tower computer system.

This sounds a lot like all the extra features they're trying to shovel into the HDMI spec. How many people here realize that one version calls for a full 100 Mbs Ethernet implementation over what began as an A/V cable?

So are they planning to key these connectors or somehow differentiate them so some newbie doesn't deplete their laptop battery in 15 minutes while attempting to power a desk lamp? It seems like 'USB' isn't going to be so 'Universal' in the future.

They'll have to differentiate the cables somehow. There's no way current USB 2.0 or 3.0 cables are ever going to carry 100W, so the USB controller is somehow going to have to know what the cable can handle before turning on the juice.

This may sound like an odd thing to bring up but I really don't think it is....

How many people have fried USB Flash Drives on a USB 3 port?I have lost 2 this way. I'm normally only using the other ports on my motherboard for that reason. There is a small spark you can see jump from the port to your flash drive.

I also know there is a program for my MSI motherboard that ramps up the amperage so you can charge your IPAD while using it via USB.

Also related, I have two USB ATSC Digital Decoders for receiving OTA broadcasts and neither work in an ASUS brand motherboard on the USB 3 ports.

So far I'm not very pleased with USB 3 and I'm not sure it deserves to be a "spec" now after hearing 100W devices may be powered from it in future products.

Seems like a messy situation, but I could enjoy a single powered hub or desktop rather than a profusion of extra things to plug in and keep track of. It would just take time for the new standard to become popular enough to allow leaving out an external power supply.

Har! I was just about to jump on to say that. Glad somebody beat me to it. It's about 1.35 orders of magnitude greater. Two orders of magnitude would be about 450W, enough to power a giant tower computer system.

Just wait until USB 5.0; you'll be able to power your desktop by plugging it into itself!

(Note: USB 5.0 will otherwise be exactly the same as USB 3.0, right down to the completely extraneous subversion number everyone will attach.)

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices, allowing users to power some of the more demanding gadgets on their desks without additional power supplies.

That's a misleading statement. You would not need additional power supplies IF the power supply supplying power to the USB ports (most likely your PC PSU) is of a sufficient rating to do so. If not, then you would need to upgrade your PSU to accommodate the additional power draw of the additional devices, OR use additional power supplies to compensate.

Har! I was just about to jump on to say that. Glad somebody beat me to it. It's about 1.35 orders of magnitude greater. Two orders of magnitude would be about 450W, enough to power a giant tower computer system.

Just wait until USB 5.0; you'll be able to power your desktop by plugging it into itself!

(Note: USB 5.0 will otherwise be exactly the same as USB 3.0, right down to the completely extraneous subversion number everyone will attach.)

This post will likely spark a new youtube conspiracy theory on free energy!

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices, allowing users to power some of the more demanding gadgets on their desks without additional power supplies.

That's a misleading statement. You would not need additional power supplies IF the power supply supplying power to the USB ports (most likely your PC PSU) is of a sufficient rating to do so. If not, then you would need to upgrade your PSU to accommodate the additional power draw of the additional devices, OR use additional power supplies to compensate.

O'RLY? I thought that the USB controller would have an integrated nuclear generator... Damn Im so disappointed.

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices, allowing users to power some of the more demanding gadgets on their desks without additional power supplies.

That's a misleading statement. You would not need additional power supplies IF the power supply supplying power to the USB ports (most likely your PC PSU) is of a sufficient rating to do so. If not, then you would need to upgrade your PSU to accommodate the additional power draw of the additional devices, OR use additional power supplies to compensate.

O'RLY? I thought that the USB controller would have an integrated nuclear generator... Damn Im so disappointed.

Wait! Who told you that? You weren't supposed to know that. Not yet anyway.

Stay right there, some gentlemen in black suits will be by shorty to pay you a visit.

/me wonders how to pass 100W of power over a USB cable without significant heating or fire hazard.

At 12V you will need a wire large enough for 8.3A. A No. 18 AWG cable should be enough.

Yeah.

Rhetorical question: Do people just equate "100w" with how hot a 100w incandescent lightbulb is, or are they actually considering W = E x I, and so at 1/10 the voltage [from 120v to 12v] the current would have to be 10x as much?

I'm thinking its the 100w bulb thing, myself.

EDIT: Yes, I know I'm being a jackass... but just couldn't help myself.

color me doubtful. i remember way back when our CRT monitors got connected to our PC's PSUs... and then they weren't because i was more reliable to connect them directly to the mains. So, now, 100W not only going through the PSU but through the MB, or at least the case, on its way to the USB port doesn't seem that good an idea.

/me wonders how to pass 100W of power over a USB cable without significant heating or fire hazard.

At 12V you will need a wire large enough for 8.3A. A No. 18 AWG cable should be enough.

Yeah.

Rhetorical question: Do people just equate "100w" with how hot a 100w incandescent lightbulb is, or are they actually considering W = E x I, and so at 1/10 the voltage [from 120v to 12v] the current would have to be 10x as much?

I'm thinking its the 100w bulb thing, myself.

Hey hey! Slow down there hoss. No one said anything about cabling. That's someone elses problem. Geez, you think you'd be happy with just being able to get 100w output from USB ports. Now you want the frakin world.

/me wonders how to pass 100W of power over a USB cable without significant heating or fire hazard.

Surely it can't be that big of a deal.

The 85-90W connection from my laptop's DC converter is barely thicker than even the thinnest USB cord I've ever had. There will be pure 100W coming off the machine so there certainly won't need to be any crazy conversions either.

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices, allowing users to power some of the more demanding gadgets on their desks without additional power supplies.

That's a misleading statement. You would not need additional power supplies IF the power supply supplying power to the USB ports (most likely your PC PSU) is of a sufficient rating to do so. If not, then you would need to upgrade your PSU to accommodate the additional power draw of the additional devices, OR use additional power supplies to compensate.

And a lot of people wouldn't find out until they tried to power something that exceeded the capabilities of their computer's P/S.

On the other hand, any factory-installed USB 3.x with this capability should have a P/S which takes this potential load into account.

It would probably only be people adding USB 3.x cards to their existing computers who might run into power inadequacy issues.

The next USB 3.0 specification will provide up to 100 watts of power to devices, allowing users to power some of the more demanding gadgets on their desks without additional power supplies.

That's a misleading statement. You would not need additional power supplies IF the power supply supplying power to the USB ports (most likely your PC PSU) is of a sufficient rating to do so. If not, then you would need to upgrade your PSU to accommodate the additional power draw of the additional devices, OR use additional power supplies to compensate.

And a lot of people wouldn't find out until they tried to power something that exceeded the capabilities of their computer's P/S.

On the other hand, any factory-installed USB 3.x with this capability should have a P/S which takes this potential load into account.

It would probably only be people adding USB 3.x cards to their existing computers who might run into power inadequacy issues.

This is 100W we're talking about, right? A single incandescent bulb. A single laptop. The wires running into 85W laptops are not a lot thicker than the wires running into USB 2.0 devices now.

What we really need is a digital power standard. It's crazy that cars still provide a cigarette lighter for 12V power even though they don't have ashtrays any more. USB ports have become the de facto digital power standard with more and more cars, power strips, and even flashlights including a USB port for cell phone and iPod power. In those terms, having more power available through the ports sounds like a great idea. I'd like to be able to power my laptop in my car using a USB adapter instead of just my iPod.

At 12V you will need a wire large enough for 8.3A. A No. 18 AWG cable should be enough.

USB is 5V right now. The story (and its source link) didn't say anything about voltage for this new high-power mode, but if they stay with 5V for backwards compatibility, we're now talking 20 A. AWG 14, most likely. Two of those lines bundled in a cable along with the data lines means we're talking something fairly bulky.

This is 100W we're talking about, right? A single incandescent bulb. A single laptop. The wires running into 85W laptops are not a lot thicker than the wires running into USB 2.0 devices now.

What we really need is a digital power standard. It's crazy that cars still provide a cigarette lighter for 12V power even though they don't have ashtrays any more. USB ports have become the de facto digital power standard with more and more cars, power strips, and even flashlights including a USB port for cell phone and iPod power. In those terms, having more power available through the ports sounds like a great idea. I'd like to be able to power my laptop in my car using a USB adapter instead of just my iPod.

Well my new car didn't have a cigarette lighter, it just had the power ports with little plastic caps over them labeled "12V". I want my lighter and ashtray back. I wanna fly down the road smoking a fat Havana cigar billowing smoke from all my windows.

But I digress. You also need to consider the internal wiring of the PC. Think of what the additional wires and their size would do to the air flow inside. Not to mention the greater heat output of your 2000W power supply needed for powering your computer, that lamp, monitor, iPod radio dock, laptop, and the ever popular lava lamp all while you play WoW.