It makes me wonder though why people who obviously started gaming this gen would buy a game like Demon's/Dark Souls.

Perhaps if you started (at the very least) last gen you wouldn't find them as difficult.

Also, I'm sure if you actually played the games for more then 10 minutes, instead of dying once, then dying again to the same enemy (rofl..) or instead of posting 10,000 times on the OPF you may enjoy them.

It makes me wonder why people who obviously think they are "pro" and have probably been gaming for about half as long as me think they are in a position to give me advice.

Not only is your assessment laughable it merely shows your ignorance. I've probably been gaming longer than you've been alive (rofl..)

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

What's it trying to achieve? recreate an era when games had no saves? even when that was the case it was never intentional, it was hardware limited.

Now that saving is possible it is obvious that nobody thinks that this archaic gameplay of redoing levels over and over is a good idea; evidence by the fact that nobody else is designing games like that.

I've got a great idea for a game. You are in a room and you have to get to the other side. Every time you press anything on the pad you die and have to restart the level. Sounds like a contender for GOTY based on the criteria by which Demon's souls was judged; a set of criteria incidentally which other games with poor checkpoint systems don't seem to be measured by.

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

I'm 21 so I doubt that, but by all means you can think that - doesn't bother me.

However, It's starting to sound like you're trolling and with your last post, where you claim to have been gaming longer then I have been alive (then why are you so bad at it..?) you could very well be of a mature age, now I have nothing against people of a mature age gaming but when they troll (you coming onto the Demon's/Dark Souls specific board and calling it bad, because you died and aren't very good at it, just to start an argument, is trolling) I think that's just a little sad, don't you?

My advice to you and you should take it is, stop trolling (and you are trolling, don't deny it) since you obviously can't play these masterpieces (Demon's/Dark) you should go troll/read/w/e another game specific board because no one on here wants to see you ranting because you died to the same enemy twice (rofl.. still funny) and lost your souls.

I think it's time you moved on mate, we get it, you don't like the game (because you're bad at it ect ect) why don't you go to a game specific board you like? I think there's a Modern Warfare 3 board somewhere, I'm sure you'd fit in more there.

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

Planky my friend.. if you don't like the game, don't post on the forum!

And before you rant at me being a youngster with no appreciation and respect bleh bleh bleh, I'm 15... so yes, I'm a 'youngster'. But I enjoy Dark Souls, and OTHER games.

And if your this 120 year old gamer you're trying to imply you are, surely you understand that in your long life of not going outside and sitting in with a nice glass of - insert drink here- on a cold winter night with your favourite game ( let's say for example, Hannah Montana ) that after a vigorous play through of it, you HAVE looked at that new game you recently bought, still in the white and purple Game bag.

And maybe, lets just say you removed the bag, to reveal the box which was labelled ' Bloody scary game' with lots of unfriendly images plastered on the front. And lets say you opened it up, and put in your ps3, and played one hour of it.

But after this ghastly experience, you realise, you DISLIKED it. But yet, on the front, were 5 little stars from 'Gameshop Daily' .

And then you re- *****ing hell, I have no idea what I was writing up there. Basically people having opinions. You may enjoy racing games - from your dp- and InfiniteStates may enjoy RPGs, but it doesn't matter. You have no reason to be so mad. Infinite could go and e-yell at you about how you should hate all racing games for there repitiveness, but he's not. He's happily trying to tell you why people think Demon Souls good, after your attack ( I say attack, its the internet though..) on Demon Souls. And I respect the fact you did try to push through on the game, to understand why people think it's great. But after you realised you didn't enjoy it, couldn't you of just said, " Okay, I tried the game, wasn't to my taste though, but I hope you still enjoy the game, and I'll just go back to play my motorcycle games/FPS/whatever.

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

What's it trying to achieve? recreate an era when games had no saves? even when that was the case it was never intentional, it was hardware limited.

Now that saving is possible it is obvious that nobody thinks that this archaic gameplay of redoing levels over and over is a good idea; evidence by the fact that nobody else is designing games like that.﻿

I've already explained that the game saves constantly. The developers clearly know how to save the game. What the game is trying to achieve is death having a consequence. If you respawn 5 seconds away from where you died with no loss of anything, how is that a consequence.

If you feel inconvenienced by the amount of backtracking you have to do after death, try not dying. It's quite possible, even at low ranks... although you can find yourself out of depth at times.

If you like to be spoon fed the end of a game without even trying for it, then this isn't the game for you. 99% of every other game on the market caters to this demographic. We certainly don't need 100% of games to.

DrTrouserPlank wrote:

I've got a great idea for a game. You are in a room and you have to get to the other side. Every time you press anything on the pad you die and have to restart the level. Sounds like a contender for GOTY based on the criteria by which Demon's souls was judged; a set of criteria incidentally which other games with poor checkpoint systems don't seem to be measured by.

If that is seriously what you consider an analogy for Demon's Souls, you really are doing it wrong. There are plenty more games out there for you - clearly this isn't one of them.

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

Making a challenging game isn't about going the polar opposite of this "spoon-feeding" design that you talk about. There is an intermediate region where a game can be challenging without being unreasonable to the point where you stop enjoying the game rapidly and it begins to feel like work.

There's nothing particularly difficult about this game other than the time involved in memorising it. The enemies are stupid for the most part. You do take a lot of damage and not being given your healing items back that you wasted on the previous failed run is a massive hinderance as eventually you are either forced to go into the level unprepared, or waste time "farming" for items in a stage that you have already cleared. The biggest difficulty is the accumulation of damage over the level coupled with depletion of healing resources, this leads to massive time commitments on the part of the player; something that many people simply will not be able to commit.

I play bullet-hell shooters. You need to spend 40-50-60 maybe 100 hours playing in order to clear them in 1 credit. I do this. The time itself isn't a problem for me, but that time has to be enjoyable. I am playing the same levels over and over but the gameplay is sufficiently entertaining to make this possible. In terms of difficulty these games are far harder than Demon Souls because you have to improve and you always start the game from the same point.

Demon's souls can be abused. You could farm like crazy then take it on, you could obtain weapons that you aren't supposed to have, but given enough time I dare say anyone could beat it regardless of 'ability'.. I see Demon's souls as the ultimate time waster; a pseudo-RPG amongst a sea of superior games in the genre. All it seems to have going for it is the difficulty, but by my assertion it is only as difficult as the limits you place on your free time. A "spoon-feeding" rpg that takes 300 hours to complete is 'difficult' to complete if you can't find 300 hours to do so. I see Demon's souls to be very much akin to this.

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

What i loved about demons souls was the nerves and excitment it gave when you were about to encounter the boss's in the game.

Still remember my first fight with the phalanx and my heart was raceing as i heard how hard these boss fights are and when i eventually did it, i felt a scence of achievment which a lot of games dont give you these days.

Unfortunatly darks souls didnt give off that same feeling as was still really looking forward to what was behind the fog/white light. The only boss fight that gave me the biggest strain was the smough/ornstein fight but my god it was probably my favourite boss fight.

It does have an acquired taste but what ive said above are the reasons why both demons/dark souls are my favourite games this gen.

Perhaps you've seen it, maybe in a dreamA murky forgotten land A place where souls May mend your ailing mind You will lose everythingOnce brandedThe Symbol of the curseAn augur of darknessYour past, Your future.Your very light

Perhaps you've seen it, maybe in a dreamA murky forgotten land A place where souls May mend your ailing mind You will lose everythingOnce brandedThe Symbol of the curseAn augur of darknessYour past, Your future.Your very light

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

Making a challenging game isn't about going the polar opposite of this "spoon-feeding" design that you talk about. There is an intermediate region where a game can be challenging without being unreasonable to the point where you stop enjoying the game rapidly and it begins to feel like work.

There's nothing particularly difficult about this game other than the time involved in memorising it. The enemies are stupid for the most part. You do take a lot of damage and not being given your healing items back that you wasted on the previous failed run is a massive hinderance as eventually you are either forced to go into the level unprepared, or waste time "farming" for items in a stage that you have already cleared. The biggest difficulty is the accumulation of damage over the level coupled with depletion of healing resources, this leads to massive time commitments on the part of the player; something that many people simply will not be able to commit.

I play bullet-hell shooters. You need to spend 40-50-60 maybe 100 hours playing in order to clear them in 1 credit. I do this. The time itself isn't a problem for me, but that time has to be enjoyable. I am playing the same levels over and over but the gameplay is sufficiently entertaining to make this possible. In terms of difficulty these games are far harder than Demon Souls because you have to improve and you always start the game from the same point.

Demon's souls can be abused. You could farm like crazy then take it on, you could obtain weapons that you aren't supposed to have, but given enough time I dare say anyone could beat it regardless of 'ability'.. I see Demon's souls as the ultimate time waster; a pseudo-RPG amongst a sea of superior games in the genre. All it seems to have going for it is the difficulty, but by my assertion it is only as difficult as the limits you place on your free time. A "spoon-feeding" rpg that takes 300 hours to complete is 'difficult' to complete if you can't find 300 hours to do so. I see Demon's souls to be very much akin to this.

LOL you moan about Demon's Souls being a time waster then in the next breath brag about spending 10s of hours trying to clear a bullet hell shooter in one credit? Gaming is time wasting, period. Given enough credits, I could reach the end of any bullet hell shooter just as much as someone could farm and complete Demon's Souls. In fact more so, as crystal geckos only regenerate when you restart the game so you can only farm a finite amount of rocks per play through.

But you have beaten the first boss, so obviously you are now qualified to judge the entire scope of the game and what completing it requires...

I fail to see how you have equated "challenging" with "death having consequence". But lets continue this discussion about the game's only difficulty being a function of time after you have defeated Flamelurker and Maneater. Good luck with those.

Re: I didn't give Demon's Souls a chance!

Old Planky is entitled to his opinion but controversially I have been gaming for over 20 years and Dark/Demon's Souls are two of the most iconic games I have ever played. I used to enjoy the Elder Scrolls series but have found Skyrim strangely unfulfilling after playing these games. I understand if they are not everyones cup of tea but for people such as myself they are nothing short of a true RPG masterpiece.