In part two of this story, Nick Charalambous had to overcome a terrible cycling accident and chart a path for one of the biggest fights of his life, stage four bone cancer. Nick’s journey is one of a determined spirit, one of spiritual exploration, one that led him to explore every fundamental facet needed to merely live. He realized death was possible.

This will to live was bigger than just fighting cancer, a faith journey that took him over and over and over again from a small town in the upstate of South Carolina across the state to the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. This geographical journey brought him back to one of his greatest passions, cycling.

He found his physical restoration was a small part of his faith journey, one that took him to train to get back on his bike and return from the coast…visiting every campus that was a part of Newspring Church. Here is the second part of his story, facing death, fighting cancer, and rebuilding to return home to place he loves and calls home.

Bobby Rettew:If you have not listened to Episode 10, Faith Journey, please do so. It is part of Nick Charalambous’ story. We pick up where we left off in Episode 10. Enjoy.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Nick Charalambous:We understand that there are things that we don’t know we can do unless we test ourselves.

Bobby Rettew:Welcome to Intersection. I am Bobby Rettew, storyteller. In part two of this story, Nick Charalambous had to overcome a terrible cycling accident and chart a path for one of the biggest fights of his life, Stage IV bone cancer. Nick’s journey is one of a determined spirit, one of spiritual exploration, one that led him to explore every fundamental facet needed to merely live. He realized death was possible.

Bobby Rettew:This will to live was bigger than just fighting cancer, a faith journey that took him over and over and over again from a small town in upstate South Carolina across the state to the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. This geographical journey brought him back to one of his greatest passions, cycling. He found his physical restoration was a small part of his faith journey, one that took him to train, to get back on his bike, and to return from the coast, visiting every campus that is a part of NewSpring Church.

Bobby Rettew:Here is the second part of his story, facing death, fighting cancer, and rebuilding to return home to a place he loves and calls home.

Nick Charalambous:The doctors were able to stabilize me, but when they were trying to figure out how to treat this disease, it was clear for them that, number one, it was a rare form of Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and they didn’t have a protocol for it. I remember the doctor saying, “For most of the cancers that we come across, oh, yeah, by this point in time, there’s a mountain of research. For your cancer, there’s a molehill.” That was about the most honest that he … Not that he was trying to be dishonest, but that was the most blunt and forthright that he was throughout the whole thing.

Bobby Rettew:Did you appreciate that bluntness?

Nick Charalambous:I did, absolutely did. And what was ironic was he was sharing all this pretty grim information with me, and I guess all I kept thinking was, number one, am I ever going to walk again, because at that point I could not walk, and number two, am I ever going to get on my bike again? And he basically said, “I think you’ve got far more serious things to be concerned about.” And so, again, that was probably the closest he came to saying, “If you are alive, you will be doing well.”

Nick Charalambous:Going back to your original question, so I really wasn’t thinking about recording this journey with cancer as anything, really, whether it’s a memorial to my life in some form or fashion or whether it would be a victory, a declaration of victory in some form or fashion. I think there were just other things that I knew were more important than that.

Bobby Rettew:I felt like your path … And I followed your path when Tom told me about your diagnosis. Number one, I’m a believer. I’m a skeptic, I’m a heretic. I ask lots of questions, and at that moment in time, I wanted to believe that you would make it. I would watch inside the pictures that Heidi would take and your time at MUSC, and I would pop a few comments on there that I was praying for you. And I don’t say that lightly. When I mean that, I really mean it.

Nick Charalambous:Thank you.

Bobby Rettew:And I say that because talking about Christ is a very personal thing for me. I don’t share it with many people. Tom is one of the few people that I share it with, and I think a lot of it has to do with that I inherently am somewhat still a heretic, but following your journey was special for me because I saw your determination.

Bobby Rettew:Talk about your diagnosis. Talk about your goal and your path, and talk about your relationship with Christ through that process.

Nick Charalambous:My diagnosis was a T cell Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and I guess my prognosis was, in the early going, pretty grim because they really didn’t know how to treat it. The critical component, in my view, of the treatment protocol was giving me what’s called a monoclonal antibody that is still a fairly new treatment, and it basically locks into one of the … On a cancer cell there’s kind of proteins that I guess are like the keyhole, and the monoclonal antibody is the key and it kind of locks in there and it can inject chemotherapy directly into the cancer cell. So again, pretty advanced medicine, and, fortunately for me, my doctor at MUSC is an accomplished cancer researcher and physician clinician, and so he was able to identify the possibility that this would work.

Nick Charalambous:So, yes, during this early going, I guess, my first thought really in any … You mentioned determination, but I remember blogging. One of the blogs I did right during the season was like, “Don’t call me a cancer fighter.” I felt very much like this wasn’t about me fighting cancer with determination. This was about me letting God fight for me, and what essentially I needed to do was, I guess, tuck myself under his protection and his armor, if you like, and follow him into the battle and that he would cover my back and that the only thing I needed to worry about was staying close to him.

Nick Charalambous:And so that’s really the source of my peace from almost the very beginning, almost the very first minute of that phone call that I received from the doctor locally to where I’m at right now. It was stay close, stay close to God, stay close to Jesus. He is going to be fighting for you all the way through. I realized that death was possible, very, very, very possible, and I was at peace with that idea and I recognized that the healing that God promises could absolutely come from passing from this earthly world into heaven with him, into eternity with him, absolutely believed that that was a very reasonable explanation of what was going to happen next.

Nick Charalambous:But I also had felt very strongly that God had given me a promise. I felt like he had spoken to my heart before I even had been diagnosed with cancer, that this suffering that I was experiencing would be for a little while and that he would himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish me. That’s a scripture out of 1 Peter 5:10. I guess I kept those two realities firmly in mind, that the suffering might be for a little while on earth so that I would be with Christ in heaven, or it truly would be a little suffering on earth and he would bring me through alive, strong, and restored.

Nick Charalambous:And so the battle spiritually and physically and emotionally all the way through the rehab process, the recovery process, the chemo, everything, was trying to remind myself that physical healing on earth was something that I could look forward to, and I had to believe by faith was possible and that I had to act as though it were going to happen by faith. And so there was always this pull in my soul to say, “Oh, well, look, I’m fine with dying.” Obviously, my wife is going to be traumatized and, obviously, all my friends and family are going to be grieving, and I obviously was regretful of that if that were to happen.

Nick Charalambous:But I was fine personally with the idea of meeting Jesus face to face. And so it was like, “Okay, I’m good, but if the Lord has promised me healing and full restoration, then I have to believe that with full faith as well.” Right? And so it was a very interesting dynamic for me. And so I think it came into its own when I had a stem cell transplant. Well, I was first able to get to remission within, I think, eight or nine months, and then after that, the doctor said, “Okay, well, we think that you can probably do a stem cell transplant. We don’t think …” Ironically, they said, “We don’t think it’s going to be successful, but we-”

Bobby Rettew:That’s encouraging.

Nick Charalambous:That’s right. Right.

Bobby Rettew:Thank you.

Nick Charalambous:The chances are not good. My doctor literally-

Bobby Rettew:At least he set you up for success regardless of what it was.

Nick Charalambous:Right. He said, “I don’t think it’s going to be successful, but it’s going to buy us some time.” I think is what he was trying to get at was it was going to buy some time. And so I said, “Okay, let’s do it.” And once the stem cell transplant started proceeding in a fairly positive way, that’s when I started realizing, okay, well, what is this new life cured going to look like? Again, anticipating that reality by faith.

Bobby Rettew:And I think you are articulating something that I think many individuals struggle with regardless if you’re agnostic, atheist, or even a Christian. And I’d love for you to react however you feel necessary to react, but I’m going to try to not generalize, but share. In the path of working with a national cancer hospital for many years, helping them communicate, many hospitals across the country, we have met so many people in their cancer journey. I could show you pictures of my favorite cancer patients, the pink-haired lady from Arizona, who I just love. She makes me cry when I think about her.

Bobby Rettew:But one other thing I think that I hear from her, and even my wife as she walked through watching her mother pass away, is she struggled with, and many struggled with that I heard from, is that, “Why did God save me and not her?” or, “Why can that individual say it’s about God gave me all the glory-“

Nick Charalambous:Grace.

Bobby Rettew:“… or the grace or all those things?” Those statements were, “Why is God responsible if you heal but not responsible if you die?” And what was interesting, that you said something that has made me shift my thinking a little bit is that you’re not talking about mortal healing. You’re talking about spiritual healing. Is that correct? Or do you see those in parallel, that it’s not that God is looking at you and ignoring everybody else. It’s just you’re describing your healing path, your spiritual path as well. Would you agree with that or is that cancer path and the mortal path work in parallel?

Nick Charalambous:Yeah, I think it works in parallel. I think one of the heavy, weighty, mysterious parts of faith in Jesus is that he is absolutely, fully in control. He is sovereign, is the word that we use to describe his complete control, so there’s never any part of what happens to us here on earth that one could claim is outside of his will in one sense. And so the emotional point that I would feel, and I instantly responded to in your question was, there’s a great deal of cancer survivor guilt that I deal with. I meant guilt’s probably the wrong word to use. Let’s just say awareness. A humbling awareness that I have literally no, I have deserved none of the grace that’s being poured out to me. There’s no reason whatsoever in me, that I should have received his miraculous protection over my life twice. There’s really no reason why, I mean I remember when I was praying for survival, I mean I would have been happy with that alone. The fact that my body was fully restored. I mean to athletic fitness that I did not have before the cancer, before the wreck. This is grace, upon grace, upon grace, right? I struggle with that. I mean there was one of my first leaders in ministry, Zach Smith, back in 2010 I think it was, lost his life to colon cancer.

Nick Charalambous:He left behind three beautiful children and a beautiful young wife, and I literally struggle every time I see the kids, or I see his wife, because it’s like I survived and he did not. It’s a very, very weighty thing. I mean I think, at the end of the day, the way I haven’t understood God’s will as to why I survived and others haven’t, but I do understand the will that God has for us to worship, and to praise, and to thank him if we have received his unspeakably great grace. So I was determined, and I remember feeling this very much as I was in the hospital finishing up my stem cell transplant, that God said that my journey on this cancer would not be complete until I declared his mighty deeds. In Psalm 40, verse three, he drew attention to the fact many would see, and fear, and trust in the Lord. So I felt very strongly that that was what I owed, the worship, the praise, the thanks to God is what I owed him in return for this great grace.

Nick Charalambous:That was all that I could do that the grace that he had poured out on me was unexplainable, and all I was responsible for was saying thank you.

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Bobby Rettew:When you announced that you wanted to do a bike ride.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:I think it’s kind of symbolic in a way, if you think about it, for many people that are going to listen to this across the country, the upstate the Anderson area is three and half hours by drive.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:If you drive 75, 85 miles an hour to Charleston to MUSC.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:But you chose to return home with a bike ride. Talk about that bike ride. Where’d it come from and why’d you do it?

Nick Charalambous:Yeah. So, I think the bike ride part was kind of a couple things. So number one, bike riding is for me, it has a spiritual dimension to it. I mean, I’m on my own most of the time when I’m riding I do it solo, and it’s a time for me to spiritually, I guess, hang out with God. It’s beautiful. I mean creation is beautiful, and I get a change to, I don’t know, there’s something very, again, spiritual about feeling your body in a way being exerted. Being tested to its limits. So, anyway, so when I felt as though I had to declare full physical healing, it was kind of a declaration of faith. It was saying, “God said I would be fully, physically healed. Fully restored.” He said to me that, I think in response to one of my prayers, I asked him to make my body better than it was before the cancer.

Nick Charalambous:So, I thought, “Well, what could I do that would prove that to be true?” If I was going to experience the full truth, and the full reality of this miraculous healing, what would I need to do to realize it? To manifest it? To show it? I thought, well it has to be some crazy, unreachable, athletic achievement and how about riding my bike some crazy distance? Originally, I thought, “Well, why not do a bike across America,” but it very quickly occurred to me that that would be a six week probably journey, and very logistically challenging. One day I was in the offices at New Spring, and I had been praying about it for a few months. I remember seeing a map of South Carolina with all our campuses arranged on the map. It looked like a loop. I thought, “Well, how about that? Wouldn’t that be a great way to say thank you for all the people that were praying for me at the time. Say thank you to my church for standing by me, and providing support, and prayer, and great healthcare and such for me. It was a quite long distance.”

Nick Charalambous:I mean I could see just by the state of South Carolina, there would be close to 1,000 miles. So that’s the genesis of the miracle tour of South Carolina. I mean I basically decided that I would be serious enough about it that I would make a plan, like I would sketch out, I guess, what those routes would look like, to bike them every day, and see how quickly I could make it across the state. I could figure it out to do about a 70 miles every day for about two weeks. A few months before, just by providence, my church had started this sabbatical program, where if you had been on staff for more than seven years you would get a three week sabbatical. I thought, “Well okay.” I can do it in two weeks. I’ve got a three week sabbatical coming up, that’s what I’m going to do.

Bobby Rettew:What was that journey like?

Nick Charalambous:Yeah, I mean frightening. I mean I remember the early, when I got to the place where I was going to go public that I was going to do this Cancer Miracle Tour of South Carolina, it was about, I think it was May 1st I think, and I had sketched out the idea of starting at the end of June. So I had about six weeks where I was public with this intent, and I had sketched out some training rides and such. I remember it just dawning on me just how crazy this idea was, because I mean, at the very beginning of my training rides, I could barely ride more than 30 or 35 miles and feel good about it. You know, like oh it was an easy ride at 35 miles. I didn’t feel anywhere close to that at the beginning, right. So if I can’t even cover half the distance of one day, it occurred to me that this might be a step too far.

Nick Charalambous:By the end of that six week training season, I had gotten to the place where I could do maybe one long ride during a weekend, so 70 miles or so. I think actually I think I ended up doing two back to backs. I think that was the pinnacle of my training, but here I was sketching out not only 13 days of those, but two of the days were even rides in the 90 and 100 mile distance. So, I was fearful. I mean I had a lot of equipment failures, and my bike was, I tried to get it fitted professionally so that I would have the most comfortable possible experience. Not that it’s ever comfortable being on a bike for six to seven hours a day, but or five I guess if it was a shorter day, but yeah, so a lot of things were going wrong. My fitting didn’t go the way it was supposed to go. It was uncomfortable. I couldn’t figure out what to do about it.

Nick Charalambous:The very weekend before I set out, I went to a totally different fitter, and he totally reworked the entire bike and basically told me I needed to buy new pedals, and new cleats and everything. I didn’t have enough time to test out that new arrangement of equipment until literally the morning I was setting out. So I was filled with fear. Filled with anxiety. I honestly at that point was thinking, “Well everyone’s going to be thinking that I talked this up.” I’d gone public with fundraising, and I think I’d already received $1,000 plus, and support TV stations and newspapers had done my story. I was just like, “Oh my goodness. This is going to go terribly. I’m going to hit day three or four, and I’m just going to, my body’s going to quit on me, and I’m just going to look like an idiot.”

Nick Charalambous:So yeah, it was tough. It was tough that first few days, because even though my body did pretty well the first two, three days, I was still thinking the shoe’s going to drop. The next climb, the next distance, my body’s going to suddenly, my muscles are going to quit, and I’m going to pull a muscle. Something’s going to happen. So I was very fretful. I think it was day three when I had a particularly arduous climbing day. So I had already, in my mind, assumed that most of the riding in South Carolina would be flat because I was heading down toward the ocean. It was like, “Well, I mean that seems downhill, so it’s probably flat.” I did not realize that to get to the Midlands, you have to basically cross a ridge, a ridge line across the state. In the watery section of Northeast of Columbia, the watery forest or whatever, there’s pretty significant climbing hills there.

Nick Charalambous:I remember doing about 15 miles of climbs, and I just hit, I guess my rock bottom where it was like I had to realize that God was supernaturally giving me energy and strength for this, because I had not climbed like that ever. I mean I had done maybe a mile’s worth of climbing of that intensity, 7% grades or whatnot. I was doing 7% grades for six miles, and probably four, five, 6% grades for another 15, 10 to 15 miles. So I just realized that your job, Nick, is to focus on the power of God here. He’s going to give you the strength that you need. I got through that ride, and the very next day everything was different because spiritually, I was locked into the reality that this was not going to be about my assumptions about what my body could do. It was not going to be about how much training I did or didn’t do. It’s not going to be about whether or not I was going to find water stops, and deal with all of that logistical freight.

Nick Charalambous:It was going to be, “Okay, God called me to this journey. He’s going to give me the … He miraculously healed me, enough that I could do this journey, so He was going to provide miraculously everything that I needed to finish it. Once I had locked into that truth, by faith, again, it was a faith test. And I failed it originally. You know, in the first three days, I failed that faith test. But, I think, after that day, that day three, I locked into reality that I needed to exercise my faith, not just my body. The rest of the journey was fun and adventurous, and tough, challenging, but by no means stressful. It was refreshing to the soul.

Bobby Rettew:What can people learn from your story?

Nick Charalambous:Yeah, you know, I want people to learn-

Bobby Rettew:And I ask that, and I don’t mean to interrupt, but I mean, we’ve got a lot of narratives going here.

Nick Charalambous:Oh, absolutely.

Bobby Rettew:I mean, we’ve got the narrative of the guy that started all this with a bike wreck, and he’s ending it this … not ending it, but as a part of the apex of the story, he is conquering it through a bike ride. You know?

Nick Charalambous:Right. A dangerous one.

Bobby Rettew:A very dangerous one. We’ve got that narrative. We’ve got a cancer narrative. We’ve got this intersection of faith and life. So, there’s a lot of narratives that are happening in real time here. That’s a bigger story.

Nick Charalambous:Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobby Rettew:If I’m an individual, what can I learn from your story?

Nick Charalambous:I mean, the obvious thing, obviously, for me, is that when you are in a relationship with God, all things are possible with Him … with Him. The number one takeaway for me is that, again, not because of any special faith on my part, but by His pure grace, He was able to do what would, medically speaking, seem physically impossible, and miraculous. And so, miracles, for me … the word miracle, for me is no longer at catch-all term for unexplainable things. It really is a precise description of the power of God to do the impossible in us, and through us. I’ve experienced that miracle power. So, the first is, obviously, that that’s true, that God is real, and sovereign, and gracious, and loving, and personal. So, all of those things are true.

Nick Charalambous:The second learning, I think for me, is that there is a real sense in which, whether or not you believe in the power God, we can assume that there are things that are going to happen. There are going to be challenges we cannot overcome, and there are going to be realities that we just have to adapt to. I think, you know, commonly when we see these amazing stories of say, Lance Armstrong, or whoever it might be, who’s come back from a pretty significant sickness like cancer … you know, we can be very quick to rush to the idea of amazing grit, amazing courage, amazing determination, all of these things … and those things are absolutely true. But, I think what I realize is, what makes those things amazing is not some special athletic, physical ability that someone has … or even a moral inclination, a moral posture that allows someone to succeed. It’s not, for me, about personal glory. It’s not about, look at what I, as a human being can accomplish and can achieve. But, I do think there is a sense in which you have to believe the outcome you want to see.

Nick Charalambous:And so, it’s not necessarily that you’re an athlete and have to reach some epic place of accomplishment. It’s that you have believed enough to do the next step of rehab, for instance, that like … so, when I went from my muscles in my back are completely atrophied, and I can’t sit up straight, I can’t stand straight, I can barely walk, I had to mentally, emotionally, spiritually, in every way, tell myself that I could not walk straight unless I believed that I could walk straight. I could not rehab any one of my muscles unless I believed that by rehabbing those muscles, I would be able to use them again.

Nick Charalambous:And so, there was this constant, day-by-day, week-by-week, month-by-month, conviction … belief, whatever you want to call that, that I had to act the miracle that I wanted to see. And I think, regardless of where someone is in faith, I think we understand what that looks like. I think we understand that there are things that we don’t know we can do, unless we test ourselves, unless we put ourselves in a vulnerable position, unless we put ourselves through pain sometimes, unless we put ourselves through … failure.

Nick Charalambous:I mean, my rehab definitely was not a straight line. I mean, there were days when I felt like a failure. There were six months in where I thought, “Well, okay. I’ve gotten this far, but you know, I’m still crooked, maybe that’s just the way I’m going to be. Maybe that’s the next step of faith,” I would tell myself, “Maybe the next step of faith is to adapt to the reality.” And yet, every moment along the way, thankfully I was able to receive strengthening by God, to believe that no, that’s not the next step for you, is not to adapt to what you cannot do. It is to discover what the healing that I’ve given you, or in secular terms, to discover what you really can do … and to explore what you can do.

Nick Charalambous:So, that’s a testing process. That’s a … yeah, it’s a very emotionally wrenching process because you’re constantly dealing with the reality that yeah, you could try and discover what your body can do, and hurt it. You could try and discover what it can do, and find out that you can’t do what you think you can do. You know? So, it takes a certain steel in your spirit to be able to deal with that. I think what … and maybe I’m being a bit more philosophical than I had intended to be, but I think that there is a part of us that doesn’t sometimes want to face reality, right? And sometimes not facing reality is not facing the fact that you can accomplish more than you think you can. Sometimes not facing reality is not wanting to try.

Nick Charalambous:Well, I haven’t had much of a chance to work on a story since this journey, I guess, recently …

Nick Charalambous:But, in totality.

Nick Charalambous:In totality … I feel like I’m bolder than ever, in wanting to discover and share what God is doing in the world at all times … through all types of people … that like, what has happened to me, is remarkable. But, the fact is, in small ways, and even bigger ways than my story, there are many, many, many thousands, millions of people, every day, who are beneficiaries of this kind of grace, and this kind of miraculous power. As a storyteller for the kingdom of God, I want to be putting my heart and soul even more deeply into that than ever before.

Nick Charalambous:I think the process that I’m going to be going through with, you know, I guess you could call it skilling, is going to look different. I think I’m more aware now than ever before that social media and video and those types of tools have to be a massively significant part of the way that we tell narratives, that we do more real-time narrative storytelling than, you know, the lookback, the retrospectives that, I guess have marked most of the pieces that I’ve done in the past.

Nick Charalambous:But, those are challenging in their own way. I guess I’m excited about exploring more real-time storytelling on behalf of other people, not just my own.

Bobby Rettew:The one and only Nick. The man.

Nick Charalambous:The One and Only God.

Bobby Rettew:… that I’ve met … I’ve finally get to meet, after years of following your story. Thank you for your time.

Nick Charalambous:Thank you for yours. This was a real great privilege and I hope that … I hope people have enjoyed hearing, and be encouraged by my story, and I pray that, you know, what’s not lost in all of this discussion is the reality that there are some really amazing advances being made in medical science, right now. You know, cancer is not the death sentence that it used to be. That’s true regardless of whether you feel as though God is sovereign, you know, in control of bringing those treatments to you for healing. Everyone … I want everyone to have access to the most advanced and life-saving technologies that we have, and … I just hope that anyone who has recently been diagnosed of cancer, or anyone that has a friend or family member that’s been diagnosed with cancer, that their first thought is not that this is going to be the end of someone’s life … that their first thought can be, there are going to be treatments, there are going to be therapies, there are going to be protocols that are going to be followed that are going to be tough, but my job is to believe, to have hope, to be encouragement to the person struggling with cancer, and that they can look forward to some long life ahead.

Bobby Rettew:You’re awesome.

Nick Charalambous:Thank you.

Bobby Rettew:Thank you.

Bobby Rettew:Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration … most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by the Touchpoint Media Network. Podcast dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health, that is touchpoint.health.

If you have ever met Nick…you are drawn in by his British accent and the inner desire to figure out how to spell his last name. Here is why, because you will never forget this man once you shake his hand, so you better know how to spell his last name.

Nick Charalambous is a man of many passions. He loves his work. He loves telling stories for the church he loves. He loves his wife. He loves Christ…and I believe this affection is one of many intersections you will find woven together inside this soft spoken man. Nick is a fellow storyteller, and it is time for his story to be told.

He has done more than fought stage four bone cancer. His journalistic career as a heretic led him down a path to understand the inner workings of a rapidly growing church, one that led him to his faith. It is this faith that was the undercurrent after almost dying from a severe cycling accident and then again as he fought stage four bone cancer. Here is his story…

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Nick Charalambous:I mean, if you strip away the layers, there’s some place at the heart of someone that is infinitely fascinating and is very spiritual.

Bobby Rettew:Welcome to Intersection. I am Bobby Rettew, storyteller.

Bobby Rettew:We’re good to go. All right, so we’re gonna just record. You’re used to this.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:Kinda sorta. I am joined by a person that I have never met before in my life and this is actually two minutes ago when he walked in my office, I shook his hand for the first time, so this is gonna be awesome. I would love for you to introduce yourself, but don’t tell us your name. Tell us what you’re most passionate about and then we’ll get into your main introduction.

Nick Charalambous:Oh, that’s an interesting question. So, I guess I’m most passionate about declaring the glory of God. I mean, that’s who I am. I’m a follower of Christ and that’s my vocation. I work for Newspring Church, which has campuses and locations all across South Carolina and really, the passion, the heart of all of that, is telling God’s story through the lives of His people, or even those that He has touched and graced in some way, and that’s what I do. I tell stories in video and in long form text.

Bobby Rettew:Introduce yourself.

Nick Charalambous:My name is Nicholas Charalambous.

Bobby Rettew:If you have ever met Nick, you are drawn in by his British accent and the inner desire to figure out how to spell his last name. Here’s why, because you will never forget this man once you shake his hand, so you better know how to spell his last name.

Bobby Rettew:Nick Charalambous: is a man of many passions. He loves his work, he loves telling stories for the church he loves, he loves his wife, and he loves Christ, and I believe this affection is one of many intersections you will find woven together inside this soft-spoken man. Nick is a fellow storyteller, and it’s time for his story to be told.

Bobby Rettew:He has done more than fought stage IV bone cancer. His journalistic career as a heretic led him down a path to understand the inner workings of a rapidly growing church, one that led him to his faith. It is this faith that was the under current after almost dying from a severe cycling accident and then again as he fought stage IV bone cancer. Here is his story.

Bobby Rettew:I assume, like Rettew, you get your name butchered.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah. Most people just get intimidated by it, but it’s actually very phonetic. It’s Char-a-lam-bus. Once you kind of slow them down and say, “Hey, it’s just … just sound it out,” they’re normally okay.

Bobby Rettew:Tell us your background. How did you become a storyteller?

Nick Charalambous:I guess the easy path to tell that story is that right around college in the UK I did an English language and literature degree at the University of Birmingham in England, and there was a lot of academic writing involved in that and I realized that I really didn’t care about the academic writings and I didn’t even actually care that much about the fiction writing. I think what I really cared about was probing and exploring, to use a fancy phrase, the human condition. I started getting involved on the student newspaper at the university there in Birmingham and one thing led to another and I basically felt like maybe I was kind of a better fit for journalism and the US was, at the time, the center of [inaudible 00:04:29] journalism and honestly broadcast journalism too, and I just thought, “Well, maybe I should apply for this scholarship that the University of Birmingham had with University of Kansas,” an exchange scholarship, and I thought “I’ll apply,” and I got it, and was able to come train in the US and I guess that’s the beginning of that story.

Bobby Rettew:Tell me about your journalism career.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah, I spent about 12 years total in journalism. I did two of those I guess at the Idaho State Journal in Idaho, and I did another 10 or so at the Anderson Independent Mail in Anderson, South Carolina. I think I won probably a handful of state awards and a couple national ones. Honestly, you could say I was quite successful, but I wasn’t anticipating staying in Anderson, South Carolina. I was absolutely fully anticipating moving on to bigger and better things, but one thing led to another. I got married in Anderson and met Jesus in Anderson and, just everything just basically made sense to stay here and do what the Lord has called me to do.

Bobby Rettew:So we’re gonna ask the elephant question in the room. How does a British accent match with a Southern accent in Anderson, South Carolina?

Nick Charalambous:Well, not very well, right. Everybody knows I’m foreign. I get Australian and South African once in a while, sometimes British. Honestly, my accent is not as British as it used to be, like my family makes fun of it now and sometimes no one even draws attention to it, which is kind of fascinating to me because maybe they just assume that I have a strange accent, but in the last few years it’s become quite, not rare, but uncommon for people to draw attention to it too much.

Bobby Rettew:Was it a beneficial addition to your reporting? When you meet people … people are usually drawn to someone that’s a little bit different and want to have a conversation.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah. It’s the easy-in for a conversation starter and people want to get to know you a little bit before they reveal whatever it is that they’re talking to you about and so being able to say, “Yeah, I’m from the UK and I’ve been over here for however many years and blah blah blah,” it’s a very, very helpful way of just creating kind of empathy and just beginning the conversation on a friendly footing.

Bobby Rettew:Tell me some of the stories that you wrote about and covered here in the Anderson area, maybe it was local, maybe it was regional, talk us through some of the bigger stories that you used.

Nick Charalambous:I think the ones that I remember the most were two crime stories, really. I think the first was the case of a fellow called, I think I remember his name, John Richard Wood, and he killed a deputy I think on Highway 85, if I’m not mistaken. His life ended in a hail of gunfire at the end of a dead-end road in Anderson County and it was one of the very first times I had the opportunity, tragically, to do a full write-up on deadline. In journalism, deadline is usually around about 10:00 at night, 11:00 at night and so I had to … and I think the death occurred in the afternoon sometime around 3:00. So I had to scramble, literally, to get as much information as I could for an in-depth profile of John Richard Wood.

Nick Charalambous:I did do some of the on the ground reporting but mostly that day my focus was as in-depth a profile of this man as you can do and so that was a competitive challenge, because you’re obviously competing with other news organizations on a big story like that, but it was also a writing challenge, and a time challenge. I remember that one.

Nick Charalambous:I think the one I’m most proud of was the case of, I think I remember his name, something about I think it was John Inman, perhaps, I hope that’s correct. But he was a … I guess he murdered a girl in Clemson whose name does escape me. He had been released about a year or so before from a facility, a prison in Florida, and that reporting, again I did an in-depth profile within a day or so of the murder taking place, or at least him being identified as the lead suspect, and then what I was most proud of though, was the ability to dig deeper into the story and uncover essentially a series of bureaucratic snafus that led to him being released. He was actually technically not supposed to be released and I think it was one of the few times that I had in journalism, the opportunity to honestly change the law. Lawmakers took the reporting that was done and basically fixed the problem that caused it. That was very gratifying. Those are the two that stand out the most I think to me.

Bobby Rettew:You know, one of the questions that I get from many of my colleagues that are still journalists, even young journalists when I go speak or interact, is how did you transition from the world of journalism into the world of telling stories for other people on a paid basis, so to speak? What was that transition like? I would love to hear from your perspective how did you transition? Were you called to transition? What made you start considering looking at the life of a storyteller outside the world of journalism, of the media, so to speak?

Nick Charalambous:Yeah, this is … there’s kind of a spiritual dimension to this that I can’t really avoid talking about. When I was a journalist, when I trained as a journalist and I was operating as a journalist for the first, I guess five or six years, I wasn’t a Christian. I was not a believer that Jesus rose from the dead. In fact, I was a very aggressive atheist. Essentially, even before I became a Christian, I realized, because I remember talking about the idea of starting up a company that would perhaps tell the stories of folks who are primarily for families to benefit, who are close to death or want to memorialize their lives in some form or fashion that would essentially help families connect with one another and keep a legacy alive.

Nick Charalambous:I know that I was already thinking about telling stories, personal stories, telling stories with a very spiritual, or at least emotional, component back then, but when I became a follower of Jesus, I just remember just absolutely knowing at the core of my soul that at the end of the day, getting in touch with a person’s heart and soul was the ultimate story, that it wasn’t about their accomplishments, it wasn’t necessarily about the biographical markers that we pass through, and it’s not even necessarily about the identities that we give ourselves.

Nick Charalambous:There’s some place at the very … I mean, if you strip away the layers, there’s some place at the heart of someone that is infinitely fascinating and is very spiritual and it kind of unlocks a piece of someone’s soul and I guess I just felt like I wanted to be part of those types of stories and so when I became a Christian, that began with me pursuing more and more opportunities at my … I guess you could call it my job, my gig, at the Independent Mail of just exploring more and more feature type stories, personally driven stories, and I think the two that I mentioned, the two crime stories that I mentioned were actually in that season, when it was like, “I don’t want to just write the news account. I want to try and probe deeper. I want to try and get to the heart of the person or the individual involved in this story.”

Nick Charalambous:So as that began to happen, I became more and more convinced that that was the heart of my passion in journalism. But ironically, it wasn’t that that led me into storytelling at NewSpring Church. I ended up being promoted a couple times, ended up in charge of web content, and it was about five years after I had gotten saved, and somehow there was, I guess, a need at NewSpring, at right that exact time period, for someone to pioneer what we called the web campus at the time. It’s basically an online form of church. And given my background with NewSpring and with web content, and it was going to be a very obviously web-driven format platform, it just seemed to make sense for me to join then, and so I did. I joined the staff there, and ironically, within about a year, our leadership decided, no, what you really should be doing is telling stories, and so that’s what I’ve been doing pretty much ever since.

Bobby Rettew:Let’s examine that a little bit. You talked about, at one point, really being … looking through the atheist lens. I look at that lens as journalists are built … I wouldn’t say to be skeptics. We’re almost built a little bit to be heretics. We ask lots and lots of questions because we are in seek of truth.

Nick Charalambous:Right.

Bobby Rettew:And I think you kind of talked a little bit about we’re in seek of little “t” truths, but really trying to drive to this big “T” truth. Did you find your pathway of seeking these truths kind of exposed you to this transition, like, how did I become … go from atheist to exploring death, to telling these stories, to, all of a sudden, I’m going to be telling stories for a church to talk about a path with Christ? That’s a big transition, in a way, and maybe it’s not. Maybe that’s not a big transition.

Nick Charalambous:I don’t know if it’s as big a transition as it sounds, and I think the reason why is the beautiful thing about storytelling in a context of Christian ministry is the ultimate truth that you want to communicate is that God is in control of everyone’s journey in some form or fashion and that they may or may not be aware of it at the time, but he is weaving a very elaborate tapestry in everyone’s lives. And the ultimate story, I guess, is to reveal those strands that God has been weaving together. And so if it’s not done elegantly or excellently, it can sometimes seem very formulaic, but I don’t believe that the work that I have done, the work that we have done at NewSpring, has ever fallen into the trap of being formulaic.

Nick Charalambous:I think it’s … We try very, very hard to be as sensitive as we can within the time constraints and the format constraints that you have with video, to be an auth … to tell an authentic story. And one of the beautiful parts of what we do is allow people to declare and preach the gospel in their own words. They don’t preach in the sense of use Bible verses, and they don’t preach in the sense of a three-point sermon. But just by declaring who God has been to them, just by declaring how God has revealed himself to them, how God has intervened and given his grace to them, that, to me and I think anyone who would watch one of these videos, would be instantly recognizable as a capital “T” truth about how God exists. And he isn’t a figment of someone’s imagination. He isn’t an emotional crutch. He is a true, living God who is at work in the world.

Nick Charalambous:And that, to me, is the ultimate, I guess, to use a big word, the apotheosis of what journalism is about because it’s … Journalism may be, outside of the Christian context, is about finding those threads of meaning, finding those corroborative aspects of a story and assembling them. I’m thinking here of the beginning of the book of Acts, where Luke talks about creating an orderly account of the life of Jesus and what happened as a result of his ministry. That is the spirit of journalism. I believe Luke was the first journalist in the sense … in the Christian context. And so I don’t think that they’re as far apart. I think all the skills, all the instincts that you need to be a great journalist are the same exact ones to be a great storyteller for the Kingdom of God.

Bobby Rettew:One of the things that I think that journalism and journalists, brand journalists, content creators, many times, I think, personally I struggle with is telling my story. We’re empowered to spend lots of time with people, get to know them. The camera is the insight into their soul, and there’s a lot of trust. We dance with these individuals, and we bring the camera in, and we have to do it elegantly in a way that’s proper and authentically tells their story, but many times they don’t hear us. We’re the crafters, but we’re not the craftees. When did you start telling your story? Was it your bike accident? Was it your cancer journey? How did you transition from telling these stories to start telling your story?

Nick Charalambous:Well, truth be told, I haven’t really told my story a whole lot, which is kind of … It hits me from time to time that I haven’t done that. There was a couple of occasions at church that my story, in basic terms, was told. Obviously, I’ve used a few blogs here and there to talk about my cancer journey, but yeah, and so I guess, I don’t believe I’ve blogged at all through nearly dying in my bike wreck. Yeah, it’s funny. I guess I always felt strange about drawing attention to myself, and I guess I didn’t want to be the subject of the story.

Nick Charalambous:That was … How can I put this? When I was deciding to do this cross South Carolina journey that I kind of dubbed The Cancer Miracle Tour of SC, I had to kind of get over that hump of, like, okay, maybe it’s time to tell my story in some form or fashion as it’s happening, and maybe it’s not self-indulgent to do it. Maybe it’s actually God honoring to do it. And so I think I did tell some of my story of the journey through cancer in real time, but I really tried to limit it to the essential threshold moments. So, yeah. Telling your own story, I think, is the hardest thing because you’re always thinking through, like, “Really, how special is this? I’m not really that different from everybody else. I’m not … Why should somebody pay attention to my story? I’m not that interesting.” I guess, that’s what’s prevented me, over the years, from sharing.

Bobby Rettew:Now a quick break to ask you for your help. Did you know Intersection Podcast is part of a network of shows, and we’re looking for your feedback. We would appreciate your help if you could take a few minutes to fill out a short listener survey. Go to survey.intersectionpodcast.com. That is survey.intersectionpodcast.com. We hope you’ll share your experience.

Bobby Rettew:Hi, there. This is Bobby again. We need your help. If you like Intersection, we’d really appreciate you taking a moment to leave us a review. Whether you listen to us on Apple Podcast, Google Play, or Stitcher, please take a moment to leave a review. This is important because it helps others find our show. Thank you so much for your help.

Bobby Rettew:Well, your story is being told in a way that has been … has attracted me. I remember the first time that Tom, my brother-in-law Tom Haren, who you work with at NewSpring …

Nick Charalambous:Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:And he has been a part of the growing of that church. You’ve been on the early stages as well. And I remember when he came into the house one day, and he said, “Nick had a bike accident, and I don’t think he’s going to make it.” And Tom was shaken because you all have a close relationship.

Nick Charalambous:Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobby Rettew:People that work in a church have a close relationship. Talk about that bike accident and what happened there and just explain that for us.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah. It was a normal, I think, Thursday or Friday morning. I think it was Friday morning because I was off. So got up, did my usual thing. I thought, “I’ll go for a bike ride today.” It was a beautiful day outside. It was the middle of July, so 80-some degrees. Stopped to … One of the very rare occasions that I decided to stop and make my wife some coffee. And it just so happened, as I was riding out in the first two or three miles, I was cresting a hill, going about maybe 18 miles an hour, not too fast for a cyclist, and there was a trailer that had stopped literally parked in the middle of the road. It’s a two-lane road I was riding that day.

Nick Charalambous:And the reason I know what happened next was because there was a video that was captured by a security camera at the fire station right in front of the place where the wreck happened. So essentially, it looks like I just did not see this trailer, even though it was a … It was filled with gardening or construction equipment, and it was a large trailer and a large truck. For whatever reason, I can’t fathom, the video just shows me acting like the trailer was not there. I even look up a few times, you can see on the video, and for some reason, my brain just did not compute that there was a stopped trailer.

Nick Charalambous:The best that I can understand, my brain was telling me, “Oh, yeah, there’s a trailer in front of you,” but it was like, “It must be moving because why would a trailer be stopped in the middle of the road?” So I hit the … head on, I mean, literally head on, hit the trailer and got catapulted over the top of all the construction equipment in the trailer, slumped on the side of the road. I don’t know who it was that called the ambulance, but the first thing I remember is being inside the hospital the day after. So every memory of that moment is from the video, if you can call that a memory. I mean, everything that actually happened that day I don’t remember at all.

Bobby Rettew:Tom says it was by the grace of God that you are still alive.

Nick Charalambous:Mm.

Bobby Rettew:Describe some of your injuries and what your thoughts when you hear that statement from Tom.

Nick Charalambous:Yeah, I mean, it’s without doubt true. I broke two vertebrae in my neck, and I broke a vertebra in my back, and ironically, the spinal … The neurologist that came in and told me about my injuries to my spine basically said, “Oh, interestingly enough, your neck, the opening for your spinal cord in your neck is particularly narrow. So if anyone was going to get paralyzed from those two injuries to your neck, it would have been you.” Even the piece of the vertebrae that was broken in my neck, or at least one of the places where it was broken, they said that usually there was a high chance of it shifting, so I would have had to have surgery to try and fuse some vertebrae in my neck. But somehow I had strong enough muscles in my neck, because I happened to be a swimmer, I think, that the fragment of the bone in my neck was able to stay close to the site where it was attached so that I didn’t have to have surgery. So I mean, it was … Yeah, to me, there’s no other explanation than the grace of God.

Bobby Rettew:What was rehab like?

Nick Charalambous:Rehab was pretty dreadful, actually. I was in a cast, a body cast, for about four months, and I didn’t have teeth, so I knocked out three front teeth technically, and I had a very, very serious concussion. It was a multiple layer of difficulty. When I got out of the cast, trying to rebuild the muscle strength in my back was really difficult because you’ve got to do the muscular work in stages. You can’t push it too hard because then you’ll injure yourself, and I was particularly concerned about re-injuring my back. It was slow. It took me probably about a year and a half before I felt like I could even bend and move the way that I would expect.

Nick Charalambous:I tried to do some swimming during that time to … a low impact way of helping the recovery. It was slow. It was frustrating.

Bobby Rettew:Which is interesting to me because I feel like we, as journalists, that were trained as journalists, are workaholics, and we don’t like to be laying down. We like to do things. We are active. We are always thinking about our next stories. We’re thinking about our work. What was that like to have to slow down a little bit?

Nick Charalambous:Well, I didn’t slow down, really. That was the irony, I think, is that I think I was in the hospital for five or six days in the Neuro ward and then I think once I got home, I just tried to figure out ways to accommodate the back brace. I remember when I went into work at the church, there was a lounger that we had lying around somewhere, and so I would sit in the lounger because it was slightly spread out so I could … My back brace could be accommodated, and just did my work in a laid back position, in a reclined position, for, what, four months or so. I don’t remember really slowing down a whole lot.

Nick Charalambous:It was awkward. I needed help. I needed people to move things around for me. I needed special chairs at times, but to the best of my remembrance, I really didn’t slow down.

Bobby Rettew:Tom tells me that you, after you got well, you started having back problems, and that back pain, you were attributed to your cycling accident, but it turned out to be something more. Is that true, or contextualize that for us a little bit.

Nick Charalambous:It’s sort of true. Essentially, I got to the point in the January of 2015 where I think my back injury … The wreck happened in July of 2013, so it’s about 18 months later. I had finally gotten to the place where I thought, “You know what? Maybe you can get back on your bike. Maybe you can, I guess, declare victory in some form or fashion over the rehab process and be an athlete or at least an amateur athlete again.” Well, I started thinking, “Well, maybe I should do one of those sprint triathlons.”

Bobby Rettew:Just jump out the gate and just go after something.

Nick Charalambous:But I mean in terms of training, in terms of training, and I thought, “So I’ll start training.” Well, I started training, and I remember when I was running, particularly, I felt just a lot of pain in my legs, and I also started to feel this weird pain in my neck that just would not go away, and I just could not figure out … I thought originally in the first few weeks, I thought, “Well, maybe it’s just that my body’s adjusting to the new training and to the injuries that I had,” and I thought to myself, “Well, it does make some sense that my back isn’t probably used to the impact of the ground,” so it made sense, but the pain in my neck, especially, just kept persisting and persisting and persisting. I stopped running, stopped doing all the training activity, still continued, went to the doctor in March, couldn’t find anything on X-rays, went to the doctor in April, couldn’t find anything on X-rays, went to the doctor in May, “Well, let’s do an MRI,” zero.

Nick Charalambous:Well, it got to the point in June, at the end of June, and beginning of July where literally I could not bend over anymore. If I would get up in the morning and go to brush my teeth at the sink, could not bend over the sink to wash my face or do any of that stuff, and around that time, I realized that if I laid down to go to bed, I wouldn’t be able to get back up in the morning, and so I started sleeping in a recliner in the living room, and, essentially, the process at that … Once those problems started happening, I knew that this wasn’t normal. I guess as much as anything, to just make sure that I wasn’t dreaming this, I went back to my neurologist and said, “Is there any conceivable way that this is connected to this wreck? Any conceivable way?” He said, “No.” I said, “Well, it sounds to me like I need to go see someone else,” and he goes, “And I would concur with that.”

Nick Charalambous:When I went to see, I think it was an endocrinologist or someone. I can’t remember what type of doctor it was, but I went to go see him, and he had no explanation, either. He did another set of MRIs, still nothing, and in the space of two or three weeks after seeing him, I started having to use a walker to even move around, and went back into his office at the end of August, and he saw me with a walker. I think it just hit him. It’s like, “No, there’s something very systemically wrong here.” He ran some more tests and one more set of X-rays, and, this time, the X-rays came back, and he noticed lesions all the way up and down, thousands of lesions, all the way up and down my spine and into my pelvis, and he actually ended up calling me and telling me, “Nick, not good news. You have cancer,” and that was the beginning of that journey.

Bobby Rettew:What was that phone call like?

Nick Charalambous:It’s funny. I’ve done enough stories that you kind of imagine if you haven’t heard of those types of calls. There was surprise in the sense of like, “Wow. After all of this, now we find out that I have cancer.” It was definitely a surprise because I would have assumed that if it was cancer, they would have been able to figure it out beforehand, but there wasn’t really a whole lot of shock in the sense of emotional shock in that moment. There was almost an instant sense in which, “Okay. This is a new journey that I get to take with God,” and I’m not just saying that. That literally was the first thing that came to my mind, and He had been faithful from the beginning of my life and faithful in the wreck that I had, so I had to believe that He was going to be faithful in His own way through this journey.

Nick Charalambous:Very quickly, my focus was really just on trying very, very hard to not let my emotions run away from me, to just keep focused on, I guess, letting God be my guide on this journey.

Bobby Rettew:I remember when we found out that [Sarah’s 00:36:59] mom had breast cancer. I remember that first time that we sat down and we went through that conversation, and she had triple negative metastatic breast cancer. It was stage 3. She ignored it, and I remember her telling us, and I thought about it for a second in classic journalist mode, and I wonder if you would agree with this. We assess our situation. We compare to our previous contexts. I’m sure you’ve told cancer stories. I’ve told cancer stories. We spend lots of time interviewing, to pull those soundbites out, to understand, to expose people to the raw emotion, but then, all the sudden, it’s your emotion, and it’s a weird way to actually start putting words to it.

Bobby Rettew:Did you experience that? Was there a shift there, or did you realize anything that, “Now, this is my story.”

Nick Charalambous:I don’t think I instantly felt like this was going to be a story that I would share. I think my first thought was, “This is me and God.” Obviously, my wife was absolutely a huge part of that, but when you’re sick, and especially seriously sick, I was dying, there was no doubt about it, within weeks, if not a few months.

Bobby Rettew:How serious was it?

Nick Charalambous:The doctors, when I went … I was hospitalized on an emergent basis at MUSC within a couple weeks I think or within a week, 10 days, of finding out that I was diagnosed. My bones were so brittle and crumbling essentially from the tumor that they were dumping tons of calcium into my blood stream. It’s called hypocalcemia. You can basically die from it within a matter of half an hour sometimes. I was emergent at that point. The doctors were able to stabilize me, but when they were trying to figure out how to treat this disease, it was clear for them that, number one, it was a rare form of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and they didn’t have a protocol for it.

Bobby Rettew:Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by the Touchpoint Media Network, podcast dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Go to Touchpoint.Health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the ePatient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to Touchpoint.Health. That is Touchpoint.Health.

In 1998 I was recruited by the Chief Photojournalist of KPHO-TV to join one of the best broadcast television visual storytelling teams in the United States. The moment I stepped off the plane in my black suit on a hot summer day in Phoenix, Arizona; Marty Boardman not only welcomed me in style but became one of my closest mentors and ultimately best man in my wedding.

As Chief Photojournalist, Marty Boardman taught me more in 3 years about storytelling, life, friendship, empathy, and ultimately business; more than I could have ever imagined. After leaving Phoenix and KPHO-TV for graduate school at Clemson University, Marty left the broadcast television business to tackle a new industry. He converted his journalistic style into a business acumen that ultimately helped him build a huge real estate business.

One of the most fascinating intersections in Marty’s path was his ability to transfer his visual storytelling and journalistic skills into relationship building mechanism. One that helped him raise capital, buy and sell homes, expand to other cities across the country, and ultimately launch a training business. He moved from behind the camera to the featured personality, writing books and creating how-to videos dominating social media. Ladies and Gentleman…Marty Boardman.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Marty Boardman:We like to say facts tell, stories sell.

Bobby Rettew:Welcome to Intersection. I am Bobby Rettew, storyteller. So introduce yourself. “My name is …” And tell us who you are and a little bit about yourself.

Marty Boardman:Sure, my name is Marty Boardman, and I am with Fix and Flip Hub. And my business partner and I, Manny Romero, we fix and flip houses in Phoenix, Arizona and Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I live in Phoenix. People ask me all the time why I fix and flip in Milwaukee. I tell them it’s ’cause I like beer, brats, and cheese.

Marty Boardman:But the truth is, is we felt like there was some great opportunities. We were looking to expand our fix-and-flip business outside of Phoenix. And Milwaukee was a great market for us and why we chose that.

Marty Boardman:I’ve been fixing and flipping houses since 2002. Yeah, we not only fix and flip houses and own investment properties ourselves, but we also teach people how to do it. We’re coaches as well and instructors.

Bobby Rettew:In 1998, I was recruited by the chief photo journalist of KPHO-TV to join one of the best broadcast television visual storytelling teams in the United States. The moment I stepped off the plane in my black suit on a hot summer day in Phoenix, Arizona, Marty Boardman, not only welcomed me in style, but became one of my closest mentors, and ultimately, best man in my wedding.

Bobby Rettew:As Chief Photo Journalist Marty Boardman taught me more in three years about storytelling, life, friendship, empathy, and ultimately business more than I could have ever imagined. After leaving Phoenix and KPHO-TV for graduate school at Clemson University, Marty left the broadcast television business to tackle a new industry. He converted his journalistic style into a business acumen that ultimately helped him build a huge real estate business.

Bobby Rettew:One of the most fascinating intersections in Marty’s path was his ability to transfer his visual storytelling and journalistic skills into a relationship-building mechanism, one that helped him raise capital, buy and sell homes, expand to other cities across the country, and ultimately launch a training business.

Bobby Rettew:He moved from behind the camera to the feature personality, writing books and creating how-to videos, dominating social media. Ladies and gentlemen, Marty Boardman.

Bobby Rettew:How did a broadcast television news photojournalist who has traveled the country, traveled internationally, told stories of legislators, so the top stories in the world, was at Columbine, was at some big national stories, turn into a guy that is now flipping houses and doing well? How did that happen?

Marty Boardman:Well, let’s see. Where do I start? So as you mentioned, I was a TV news photojournalist for the CBS affiliate in Phoenix, where I currently live, and have lived since 1991, so a long time, so consider Arizona my home, Phoenix my home. And yeah, started out, out of high school really. Got a job at a TV station in Yuma, Arizona, then eventually made my way to Phoenix.

Marty Boardman:And so I worked in the TV news industry for 15 years and obviously was trained to be a visual storyteller, like you were just talking about. I was a member of the National Press Photographers Association for many years, attended their workshop, and learned how to tell stories with video and with sound, and was very passionate about it for a very long time. And I was Regional Photographer of the Year in 1996 for Region 10, which is, I think, Arizona and California and Nevada.

Marty Boardman:But, yeah, just eventually, I think, like a lot of people, even if you’re passionate about what you do and you love what you do, eventually you start to run out of stories to tell. And you kinda have started telling the same stories over and over again. And I was just looking for a new challenge, really. And frankly, I was looking to make more money.

Marty Boardman:And so when I turned 30 years old, I kinda decided that … I’d been in TV since I was 16, almost 15 years, and I needed to do something else. I was looking for a way to make more money. I was looking for just a new challenge.

Marty Boardman:And right around that time, I read a book by Robert Kiyosaki. It’s called Rich Dad Poor Dad. And in this book, Robert Kiyosaki talks about … he uses kind of his own life story about how he had a rich dad and a poor dad. His poor dad was his biological father. And his rich dad was a close friend of his father, who was very wealthy, business owner, real estate investor.

Marty Boardman:And he kinda just basically just told this story of the two of them and how his poor dad, his biological father, who was a school teacher and, I think, a principal, just invested his money very poorly and invested his time very poorly. He bought liabilities, not assets, so he was constantly in debt. And his rich dad was investing in businesses and buying real estate and created passive income through these different business ventures. And so, yeah, he was buying assets, his rich dad. His poor dad was buying liabilities is kind of the basics of the book.

Marty Boardman:And he also went into detail about how most people trade time for money. They work at a job 40, 50, 60 hours a week, and they get a paycheck. Business owners don’t do that. They invest in businesses, and they make their money through passive types of investments and through the income that their businesses make.

Marty Boardman:So that whole concept I’d never really … I didn’t study business in school. My major was in political science. I knew very little about business and very little about real estate. But that whole concept of creating a business and creating or owning investments that put money in my pocket every month without really having to do anything really appealed to me.

Marty Boardman:And frankly, Bobby, being in the TV news industry for 14, 15 years, I didn’t really know how to do anything else. I had tried applying for jobs at corporations that made … Well I’m here in Arizona. Intel’s really big. And there’s corporations that … a lot of tech companies here. I didn’t know how to do any of that stuff. So I just didn’t have a skillset that would make me very valuable to a corporation like that.

Marty Boardman:So really, real estate was my only real hope for creating an income for myself outside of the TV news industry. So that’s what I did. 2002, I quit my job as a TV news cameraman, and I somehow convinced my wife to let me do that. And my first year in real estate I made about $24,000. The second year, I think I made about $75,000, which was good, ’cause that’s about what I was making in TV news. And then from there, it just kinda exploded.

Marty Boardman:But for about a decade, from 2002 to 2012, I was just doing real estate. And I didn’t do anything, as far as marketing goes, with camera, with podcasting, any of those things. I didn’t have an email list. I didn’t do any of that stuff. I just focused on real estate investing.

Marty Boardman:And then about five, six years ago, I realized the whole world is moving towards this. And this is kinda what sealed it for me, Bobby, is people buy things and invest with people who they know, like, and trust. And video, to me, was the very best way to get people to know us, like us, and trust us, and through storytelling, through visual storytelling.

Marty Boardman:So it’s something that came pretty naturally to me, ’cause I’d done it for so long. However, it was like dusting off an old set of shoes or … I mean, I was pretty rusty when I got back into it. I hadn’t picked up a camera or done any type of editing in over a decade. But the whole premise or the whole foundation behind visual storytelling hasn’t changed really at all in many, many years. So it just came naturally to me and came back to me pretty quickly.

Marty Boardman:So that’s when we started shooting and recording videos at our projects, at our investment projects. We fix and flip houses and owned investment properties in Phoenix, Arizona and Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And so my business partner and I … Initially, I was just putting my business partner on camera, and I was staying behind the camera. And then we realized that there’s just a lot more chemistry, and it was easier to tell stories when it was the two of us together. So we started doing stuff together on camera a couple years ago.

Marty Boardman:And, yeah, I mean, things have just exploded for us, our YouTube channel following, our Facebook following, and on Instagram. And we’re constantly approached. And I can’t tell you how many different opportunities, business-wise, that being able to tell stories and to show people what we do on video, what a huge difference that makes. And the competitive advantage that we gain by having that type of media in our business, it’s just been tremendous.

Bobby Rettew:So for people don’t realize this, Marty Boardman was my boss. He hired me back in 1998. And I came to work for him, well, in 1999. And we worked together for two or three years before I left Phoenix to come back and go to grad school. And you have a wonderful family. And you taught me everything there is to know about Arizona. My time there was awesome. I mean, it was fun. We had a great time telling stories in Arizona for those two to three years. I mean, you built a great team.

Marty Boardman:Yeah, it was kind of the golden age of TV news photojournalism. And one of the things I learned assembling the type of team that we had there, when we worked together, Bobby, was one of the things I’ve actually kinda been able to apply also in my new business … so not new, I’ve been doing this.

Marty Boardman:Well I’ve been doing real estate longer than I did TV now, but one of the things that I learned is how to build a team through that experience, surrounding myself with like-minded people, people who have the same passion and energy for the job as I do. So yeah, that was some good times. We had a lot of fun. We worked hard, and we played hard, didn’t we?

Bobby Rettew:We did. We worked really hard. We played hard. We traveled a lot. We spent a lot of time on the lake. We got to know each other, and we really all had a passion for this thing about storytelling and just having fun and a good ol’ time.

Bobby Rettew:One of the things I think is interesting that I was looking forward to chatting with you about … you and I have talked about this a lot, is transitioning, using that institutional knowledge that we gained in television and translated into business, into the business world.

Bobby Rettew:One of the things, I think, that you’ve done really well, which you kinda alluded to earlier, was taking that journalistic business, that journalistic acumen, storytelling acumen, and translate it into your business. And talk about the things that you learned on the streets with a camera and how that related to the business world, not just making stories, but interacting with people.

Marty Boardman:So I think the biggest thing that I learned, and it isn’t really something that I’ve entirely figured out until just a few years ago, if you have a passion for … well it’s a couple of things. Number one, it’s having a passion for what it is you do, okay? It’s easy.

Marty Boardman:One thing that comes very simple to me, and comes very naturally to me, is raising money. We’ve raised, for our real estate investment company over the years, we’ve raised millions of dollars, probably, I’d say, close to 10 to $15 million dollars in private capital to use to invest in our real estate investment projects between Phoenix and Wisconsin. And as a matter of fact, as we speak, I’m in the middle of, with my business partner, putting a $10 million private equity fund together for our acquisitions in Wisconsin.

Marty Boardman:But I think the reason why people invest with us is because of my passion for the business. I love real estate investing. I think one of my favorite parts about it is just transforming properties and buying homes and seeing them go from kind of the eyesore on the block to the gem of the neighborhood.

Marty Boardman:And I can explain how that process works to a potential investor in a very simple, easy-to-understand language. And I can communicate that to them in a way that’s simple and easy to understand. But because there’s a passion behind it, they recognize that I know what I’m talking about, and I’m gonna see it through to the end.

Marty Boardman:It’s interesting. When you work in TV news, when you work in the news business, each day when you come into work, you’re just given an idea, basically. The higher-ups have a story concept for you, and they ask you to tell a story around that concept or idea or whatever happens to be going on. And then you work all day. And by the end of the day, you have something, right, that’s tangible, that goes on the air, that people get to watch and learn from.

Marty Boardman:And I look at what I do in real estate investing is very similar. We start out with a house that’s practically falling down and is in poor condition. We don’t get it done in a day, but in six to eight weeks, we have a completely finished project. And I have to be able to communicate my vision for that property with the people on my team along the way and also to our investors.

Marty Boardman:And I had a passion for storytelling and for video and for producing and editing when I was in TV that was, I think, infectious. It got other people excited about it. And now I’ve kinda translated all that into my real estate business. And I’m just as passionate about that.

Marty Boardman:And I get just as excited about finishing a home and either selling it to a family or if it’s a rental property, renting it to a nice family, and having that pride in knowing that we cleaned up a neighborhood or that we helped to raise property values. We provided jobs to people. I mean, all of those things gets me really excited.

Marty Boardman:And I think when you are … no matter what type of business you’re in, if you were to try to start a bakery or a bank, or you’re starting a digital ad agency, whatever it is, if you can communicate your vision for that business or that opportunity clearly and concisely and have passion to go alongside it, it becomes very easy to raise capital. It becomes very easy to find funding for your projects.

Bobby Rettew:Tell me about how you were able to leverage. And you kinda talked about it earlier. But how do you …? What are some of the things that you started using, from a storytelling standpoint, to really expand your business? You started talking about using video. You started talking about some of those pieces, but that, for a lot of people that’s like, okay, I don’t know how to apply that. What are some of the things that you started doing that, from your days in television, to literally go out and, on a daily basis or weekly basis, tell stories and communicate using certain tactics that really has led to business?

Marty Boardman:It’s important, for example, when I explain to somebody how to fix and flip a house, so it’s important that we keep things as simple as possible. I had this concept taught to me by a very successful fix and flip investor back in 2009. A fix and flip business, and you know people love HGTV. They love watching the reality shows, and it’s all because people like to see the home transformed. They love to see the before and after.

Marty Boardman:When you’re building a fix and flip business, whether you’re going to fix and flip one house, or 100 houses at once, there’s really just four compartments, or divisions, of a fix and flip business. The first component is acquisition, you have to go out and find the houses to fix and flip. Division one is acquisition. Division two is rehab. Once you buy the house, find it and buy it, you’ve got to get it rehabbed, so that’s division two. Division three is just sales. Once you have the house finished, you’ve got to sell it. Then the fourth box or division is money, or capital. You have to have capital to fund the acquisition and the rehab.

Marty Boardman:What I try to do is, in every phase of our business just keep it simple when I’m explaining it to, if it’s our coaching clients, or if it’s potential investors, just keeping things very simple. Just like in TV news, I’m given a story, and it’s typically, hey, whatever is going on in the news that day, we’re building a minute 30 to two minute long story around this one basic concept. That’s what we try to do.

Marty Boardman:If I have a potential coaching client who I want to teach how to fix and flip houses, I want to teach them just in box one, which is acquisition, let’s just say, we were talking about that a few minutes ago. I want to just present to them a very simple, easy to understand, kind of step by step on how to find a deal. Whether it’s on our blog, on our YouTube channel, whatever it is, we try to create a linear experience where it’s just kind of like, you do this, then you do this. Depending upon what part of the journey, or what part of the business that client or that student’s working on, we’ve got a video we can show them.

Marty Boardman:For example, we have a private Facebook group for our coaching program students. What usually happens, Bobby, is someone will go on there and just ask a question, “Hey, you know, I’m trying to figure out what color I want to paint this house. Can you guys give me any advice?” Well, guess what? I have a three minute video on how to choose just the right color for your house. I’m like, “Oh, yeah, as a matter of fact, here’s a video on how to do that.”

Marty Boardman:We created a series of videos around every step in the process so that when we have questions, we can show people, “Hey listen, this is how we do it.” Maybe it’s not a question, maybe it’s a blog post, or maybe it’s not a video, but it’s a blog post we wrote. You know, we started creating this content back in 2012, like I said. When I started shooting video, we started writing blog posts and YouTube posts, so we can use the information, the content we’ve created, to answer questions. Of course, all of that content, whether it’s a blog post, or it’s a YouTube video, or it’s a Facebook post, all of that circles back into a funnel that we created for our coaching program, or for how to invest money with us.

Bobby Rettew:What I love, if people just go follow you on social, Instagram, Facebook, you can check out Fix and Flip. We’re going to have links in the show notes for people to check it out. What you’ll notice is that he is constantly posting video content of the projects he’s working on. A couple things that I think you’ll notice from my perspective is one, you’re always putting out fresh stuff, first of all. You’re staying top of mind, so you’re trying to keep in front of people.

Bobby Rettew:Two, let’s go back to the passion. There is something about translatable passion is when you see someone’s face talking about something they love. That is the part of the equation I think is important, don’t you think? That the people that want to work with you, or buy your products, need to see you and see your passion for what you’re doing. Would you agree?

Marty Boardman:Oh absolutely. Believe me, this isn’t something I learned overnight, and I’m getting better at this. I mean, I’ve been fixing and flipping, I’ve been in real estate for a long time. Like I said, since 2002, longer than I worked in television news. I think sometimes if you’re … I hate to every say or claim I’m an expert, but if you’re an expert in your field, or if you’re somebody who’s generally respected in your industry, or thought of as an expert, it’s really easy to become proud of, or I don’t know, it’s real easy to kind of just throw up all over people with all of your knowledge to try to impress them. I’m guilty of that, for sure.

Marty Boardman:I’ve noticed, and Bobby before you and I started recording this, I started telling you about how we’re going back now through all of our marketing, through our blog posts and emails and videos, and really analyzing the content that we have provided. Because some of it frankly is just we’re making what we do sound a little too complicated, and there’s a lot of tech speak and so on and so forth. It’s important that, A, yeah, you be passionate about what it is you do. B, that you try to create the content based on either clients who don’t know anything about you or your content, or anything about the subject matter. If you can do those two things, then I think it becomes very easy to convert clients into customers. Convert people into customers.

Marty Boardman:For me it’s important that we communicate what it is we do in a very simple and easy to understand way. A few years ago we were raising capital for … We only have two different types of customers or clients. We have investors. We have investors who invest money with us, in our projects. That’s our investment company. Then we have our coaching company. We have people who pay us to teach them how to fix and flip.

Marty Boardman:It’s interesting how the marketing for one or the other helps us with both. Like I have a student in our coaching program right now who has decided she doesn’t really want to learn how to fix and flip houses on her own, she just wants to take the money she has and invest it with somebody who does. Well guess what? We know how. We love taking investor capital and plugging it into our projects. There’s great synergy there between those two companies, between our investment company and our coaching company.

Marty Boardman:We had an investor, a very wealthy investor, he had about $2 million he was looking to invest with us. This was several years ago, really after I first started fixing and flipping houses, and trying to figure out how to raise capital. I sat down with the guy, and I explained over 45 minutes, I sat down face to face with him over lunch, and kind of walked him through every single phase of our business and how it all worked. At the end of the day, even though I was passionate about it, he didn’t invest with us because I gave him way too much information, and made it sound way too complicated.

Marty Boardman:He just didn’t understand it. From where I was sitting, it was very simple and easy to understand, and I thought I was impressing him with all my knowledge of the market, and how to structure deals, and how to acquire properties, and how to sell them, and all these different things. In the end I just confused the guy, you know.

Marty Boardman:You run the risk of sometimes having this passion for what it is you do, and kind of over explaining, or just scaring people away because not everybody wants to know how the sausage is made. Not everybody needs to know how the sausage is made. You have to keep your message, whether it’s video and/or blog posts, whatever it is, just keep your message simple, and the things that you’re trying to share with them easy to understand and easy to follow, so you don’t just turn them away completely.

Bobby Rettew:Now a quick break to ask you for your help. Did you know Intersection Podcast is part of a network of shows, and we’re looking for your feedback. We would appreciate your help if you could take a few minutes to fill out a short listener’s survey. Go to survey.intersectionpodcast.com. That is survey.intersectionpodcast.com. We hope you’ll share your experience.

Bobby Rettew:Hi there, this is Bobby again. We need your help. If you like Intersection, we’d really appreciate you taking a moment to leave us a review. Whether you listen to us on Apple Podcast, Google Play or Stitcher, please take a moment to leave a review. This is important because it helps others find our show. Thank you so much for your help.

Bobby Rettew:One of the things I think was interesting that you did was you decided to create a closed Facebook group so that you could interact directly with people that are students that are buying in to that process. They pay you, and then you allow them into this Facebook group. Talk about the concept of leveraging that opportunity, where you could use a platform like Facebook as a means to build rapport and community within a group of people that you have sold something to.

Marty Boardman:With a coaching program, when you’re working as a coach, obviously time is precious, especially with us, my business partner and I, operating a full time investment company, we wanted to have this medium. We wanted to have an outlet where people in our coaching program could have access to us but not direct access to us. We wanted to be able to create, like you said, a sense of community amongst the students in our coaching program virtually.

Marty Boardman:Certainly we’re not reinventing the wheel here. I mean, there are lots of successful coaches and businesses that have created private, or closed, Facebook groups to create that sense of community and exclusivity. We weren’t certainly trailblazers with this.

Marty Boardman:What we’ve done with our coaching group on Facebook, is this closed group is, what we’ve created is a very interactive type of community, where people can ask questions, share ideas. What’s neat about it is it’s kind of taken on a life of its own now, that we’ve had this for about a year and a half. We’re up to, it’s not a lot of members, I think not quite 100 members in the coaching group.

Marty Boardman:What happens is our students will go into this group and ask questions about a house, or a fix and flip project they’ve purchased, or are in the middle of, or maybe a house they’re looking at buying. Then can ask questions, but there are so many people in the community now that are doing their own fix and flips, that have learned so much from us, they kind of become the facilitators of this group. Manny and I, my business partner, we don’t even have to really interact. Our students do the coaching for us, our successful students do.

Marty Boardman:What that does is the students that are just getting started see, wow, this stuff really works. Not only are Marty and Manny in here helping students, their successful students are as well. It really gives you a lot of credibility, and it makes people feel very good about the money they spent on your program, and you’ve just created testimonials that you can use in your other marketing.

Marty Boardman:If I have a coaching client on a phone call, I typically don’t do phone calls, I do like Zoom conference calls with them, a video conference call. What I’ll do is if I have somebody who’s considering signing up, I’ll share the Facebook page with them and I’ll say, “Look at all the interaction that’s happening in our community?” We have students who are in the middle of their first, second, third fix and flip, made $25,000, $30,000, $35,000 on this project.

Marty Boardman:I’ll show them, “Hey, here’s a student who hasn’t done a fix and flip yet, but they uploaded this video of the house, and as you can see here, we’ve all given them our input and guidance on what we believe the rehab estimates are going to be, or what type of finishes and colors they should use at this house once they buy it, or how much they should offer for the property.”

Marty Boardman:I can use it to build not only trust and credibility with the students who have already paid to be in the program. I can use it for prospects as well.

Bobby Rettew:Yeah. This is something that we use in healthcare. We use it with hospitals, with specifically cancer patients, these closed Facebook groups, because it allows patients to interact with each other, and also have a sense of privacy for HIPPA. Then also connect with providers to ask questions. A lot of hospitals are in this mode of, well let’s just use outbound communication. Let’s just post it on Facebook and let it be done. Let’s put it on a billboard. Let’s tweet it. Let’s do these things to market.

Bobby Rettew:These closed groups, and I love your application, I’ve been fascinated by it, is that this is a place where you can use a platform to build community, and build trust. Then at the same time re-market products in a way that you can sell them on other stuff. It’s kind of a unique position that even a lot of hospitals haven’t figured out yet. Because they’re scared to moderate something like that, because it takes time and energy, you know. That’s what I love about what you’re doing with this, is that it seems so simple, but it is, to your point, a very powerful piece, even in the area of real estate.

Marty Boardman:It is. You know, I’ll give you an example. Our business page, we have I mean close to, I think we’re well over 4000 people follow our business page. It’s like 4200, 4300 people. I started to notice about a year and a half ago that engagement on that business page really dropping off. Facebook has changed its algorithms, and so what happens is as people just they don’t even see what you’re posting on your normal business page. It’s almost, it’s really a waste of time anymore for us to post content there.

Marty Boardman:What I started doing is we created a free closed group, which we call a mastermind group. It’s a sales free zone where people can just ask us general questions about real estate investing. That’s one group, that’s our free group. Then we have our paid coaching group, where we give them all kinds of content. Like last night we did a hour long just Q&A webinar for the students in our coaching program. Of course, not everybody can attend those, so we repost those webinars on that paid coaching group site. We put new content on that, and it’s valuable content on that paid site all the time, on the free group, we just answered questions. But the engagement on both of those is quadruple what we get on our normal business page. Because in these closed groups, people get notified when new content is posted. Right? So if I post something on my regular business page, if somebody doesn’t have to be on Facebook at that very moment. It’s like it was never posted it at all. Whereas somebody in my close group, whether free or paid, they actually asked to be part of it. So clearly they’re engaged. They want the information they want that community feel. Not only have they opted in so they feel like they have some kind of vested interest in what the discussion is all about. But they get notified that a new content is waiting for you to look at. So to me, heck, if I was just starting out in the social media space and with Facebook I’d pretty much just completely abandoned creating a normal business page and start out right out of the gate with a closed free closed group. And that gives people that sense of exclusivity. Right? So.

Bobby Rettew:And what I love with this, you’re using tools that we use every day as communicators that we try to encourage people to use just with some simple things. For instance, I love how you use and create video content. You’re using some very basic tools. Some of is expensive, but some of it’s inexpensive to do very simple things. For instance, like I love how you explain inside of a house what you’ve done and you’re using pictures and all you’re doing is setting the camera up and talking to it and showing. Very simple tactics that anybody with a big camera or an iPhone could do, wouldn’t you say?

Marty Boardman:Oh, absolutely. I mean, we’re fortunate in that what we do is visual, but you can do this really in any business. For example, my brother in law, him and his wife own an insurance company. And I was explaining to him last time him and I got together, he lives in Texas. I said, think of all the visual things you could do as an insurance agent to market your business just from to get people to know you like you and trust you. Like I was telling him, I said, you know, one of the things like I always think about, especially with my wife and I’ve told her many times. I said, listen, if you get in an accident on the interstate, right? I said, “Pull off the road.” I mean not just to the shoulder of the interstate. I said, get off the freeway completely because people are going 70, 80, 90 miles hour and they’re not generally paying attention anyway.

Marty Boardman:And I said I had this experience myself. I got into a kind of a … I got rear ended on the interstate as during a traffic jam several years ago. And I told and as I was sitting there on the shoulder of the highway, like two other accidents happened right next to us because they were rubbernecking right there were looking over at us, slamming into each other. So I told the lady that rear ended me. I said, listen, I’m not comfortable being out here on this interstate, said we’re going to go to the next exit and just pull into a gas station. Then we’ll call the highway patrol. So that’s what we did. And the highway patrolman said, “Hey, you guys did a smart thing here. You got completely off the highway. So he didn’t, bottle up traffic miles and miles behind you. And it’s safer.” And so I was telling my brother in law this, I said, “You could create a little video for your clients and potential clients.”

Marty Boardman:Hey, what do you do when you get in an accident on the freeway? And here’s the safest thing to do. And here’s what highway patrolman recommend you do, right? So it can be a two to three minute video with you standing next to your car or, and then maybe you show a few shots on the highway, right? And I proceeded to give him three or four more examples of when you rent a car, when you go out of town and you rent a car, they’re always trying to sell you on the insurance. Right? I’m like, you could do a little video about that. I was like, there’s so many different little informative free tips you could give people. They’re gonna Think of you and you can put these little videos on your Facebook page on Youtube. They’re going to think of you first when they get ready to buy their insurance. Right?

Marty Boardman:So, any business you just have to be creative and think about, “Hey, what questions are people asking about in my business?” Like for us, people are always wanting to know bobby, “Hey, what color did you paint these walls?” Or “How did you come up with this design concept for this kitchen?” I mean and so we just try to take these tips and boil them down to a little Instagram post with a picture or a tiny 30, 45 seconds how to video on our Facebook page. Right? And these things are evergreen, right? They will, they last forever.

Bobby Rettew:So one of the things too that you and I’ve talked about is there is a fine line between telling them everything they need to know and given away all your business and also the fine line on that with telling them just enough so that they get interested in what to do business. Talk about the balance that you play here with using video and storytelling. Not to tell too much, but tell them enough to get them fired up?

Marty Boardman:I tell Ya, by no means an expert at that and I have a coach, a marketing coach, and he likes to say that the best teachers typically aren’t the best marketers. The best marketers aren’t typically the best teachers. So it’s a very fine line and I’ll be honest, it’s one I haven’t quite solved yet. I tend to teach too much. Okay. And that has a negative effect on my sales of my coaching program. And I think when you teach too much, you risk doing one of two things. And you and I, again, we’re talking about this before we hopped on live here. But if you teach too much, you can explain so much about your business. They can figure it out on their own and then never buy your product or service. So there’s that risk.

Marty Boardman:Number two, if you teach too much, you risk making what you do sound really difficult and time consuming and people just decide not to do it. And of course, either way it’s bad because you don’t make sales. So, what I’ve been taught in a way I’ve been told to do it is you don’t necessarily teach people how to do it. You just want to teach them what’s possible with the knowledge and the information that you’re providing. So it’s really a paradigm shift where you’re teaching them, hey, this is possible. You can … With this information, you can do this. Right? So and that’s where it becomes difficult because at the same time you got to give them some type of value. You have to give them something they can kind of sink their teeth into so that they can feel like, hey, this person is knowledgeable and they’ve given me something valuable for a very small cost or no cost.

Marty Boardman:Really could just be giving them my email address and they’d given me something valuable so what I’m going to buy from them moving forward and what the space I’m in the coaching space, that’s a, it’s a difficult nut to crack, right? I mean there’s a lot of real estate coaches and instructors and investors out there teaching people how to do this stuff. So it’s a competitive space. It’s a competitive industry coaching in general. So, it’s a fine line, I’ll say that, but I would just say you want to focus on teaching people more what’s possible and less of how to do it step by step. Because when you’re teaching people how to do it step by step, like I said, you either show them, you give them the exact blueprint and they go figure it out on their own without you. Without them paying you for your service or your product or your course and or you scare them away because they realize it’s going to be really hard and time consuming. And so they just don’t buy.

Bobby Rettew:And this is the place that third party testimonials is key, right? Because when you have someone else share about you, what you’ve done to help them, whether it’s a customer of a house that they’ve purchased or invested, or if it’s a customer of your coaching, they’re not really given away what you’ve sold, what they’re talking about is how awesome you are. And what the possibilities are. Wouldn’t you agree? That kinda goes back to our days of television is that that third party testimonials these sound bites that really bring subjective information to the table is something you can’t say yourself, but when someone else does, it’s amazing.

Marty Boardman:Absolutely. I mean, and I think here’s what you may find this surprising Bobby, and maybe for those of you listening, you may find this surprising. I have found that raising capital is much, much easier to do than selling somebody coaching or selling them a product or service. It’s actually much easier, I believe, to raise money. And the reason why is when, if you have an opportunity, a business opportunity or an investment opportunity and you can prove it to somebody on paper, and a potential investor on paper, whether it’s a high net worth individual or a private equity fund or an investment group. If you can show them on paper that the deal makes sense, they’re going to invest with you. I mean, if you’ve shown that you’ve done your due diligence, the numbers all add up and you’ve got a bit of a track record in doing deals like that. It’s very easy to raise money and people think that that’s like the hardest thing in the world to do.

Marty Boardman:You see shark tank and you see these shows and people are trying to get funding for their business or their projects and it seems like it’s really hard, but it’s not. Again, if on paper the numbers add up and you have even a short track record of doing it, it’s actually very easy to raise capital. What’s really difficult, I believe is selling somebody a product or a service coaching, whatever it may be, because the person that you’re selling it to not only has to be convinced that it works for somebody else, which that’s where your testimonials come in like you’re talking about. Yeah. It’s a very important that you have people who have used your product or service and are willing to say that, “Hey, it worked for me and I was successful with it.”

Marty Boardman:You have to not only have that component, but you also have to make them believe that they can do it. Right? That, that prospect can do it too. So they can watch a dozen different testimonials on your website. And on Facebook, and if you’re doing retargeting, whatever the case may be. So it’s great that they can see other people have used the content and your services and have had success. But the next step in that or equally important I should say, is making them believe they can do it too. Because you know what happens, people will go, Oh yeah, well that guy did it, but, I mean, he’s, he seems like he’s a lot smarter than I am or he’s got more money than me or I don’t know, he just, he seemed smarter or that opportunity fell into his lap because of … Whatever the case may be.

Marty Boardman:So what you’ve got to do and what we do a lot in our marketing that’s definitely helped and we’ve learned here just recently is we call it the … And I’ve heard of it in marketing before, but it’s you basically just say, “Hey, I’m nothing special.” Right? I can’t think of the exact term for it off the top of my head, but you got to make people realize that, hey, you’re doing this and you’re nothing special like me. I tell people all the time, I was a TV news cameraman for 15 years.

Marty Boardman:All I knew how to do was point a camera and chase people around with my camera and record video and do some editing. I mean, I didn’t, I was nothing. I think they call it the anti- hero approach is what they call it and just make people understand hey listened, If I can do this, whatever it is, if I can fix and flip a house and I don’t have any construction experience, I don’t know how to home remodel. I don’t, I’m not an interior designer or decorator and I’m nothing special. And I did this in my spare time. If you can make people believe whatever it is you’re trying to sell them a product or service that they can use that product or service in their own life, you can get them to believe that, and then you’ve got the testimonials on top of it, then I think converting somebody into a customer becomes a lot easier.

Bobby Rettew:Are you still ultimately a storyteller?

Marty Boardman:Oh, absolutely. I mean, we like to say facts tell stories sell. So like for example, like I just used this story the other day to convert somebody into a customer, somebody who’s got a very busy life I had on the phone and they were thinking about signing up for a coaching program.

Marty Boardman:I said, listen, I said, “I got a student in our coaching program right now just like you, he works at a full time job. He’s an outside sales rep for a software company. He is married with a three year old and a baby on the way and he just successfully fixed and flipped his first house in his spare time, with a wife and a three year old. And a baby on the way he did it all in his spare time. He made $30,000 in profit and he knows nothing about construction or home remodeling. So if he can do it, you can do it too.” Right? And then of course I sent this prospect a little video testimonial that this student did for us at his property. And It was a pretty easy sale at that point. It was really easy to convert that person into a customer because they saw that somebody else can do it. And I helped them to believe or made them believe that they can do it too. So when you combine those two things, it becomes a lot easier.

Bobby Rettew:[inaudible 00:48:51] Storyteller, husband to a wonderful wife, Linda, who is just awesome. Two beautiful children who are growing up. Oh my gosh, I saw the picture of y’all and the jeep. It is an amazing honor to be on the phone with my mentor, my friend, best man in my wedding, Awesome businessperson who even lost it all and rebuilt it again. It is a pleasure to have you tonight.

Marty Boardman:I certainly appreciate you thinking of me and allowing me all this time to talk about what I do, which I love what I do and I know you love what you do, so I appreciate everything you do for your customers, your clients, and your following as well. So it’s great catching up with you today.

Bobby Rettew:Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling intersection is power by The Touchpoint Media Network podcast dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcast, exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the E-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go touchpoint.health . That is touchpoint.health .

A few years ago the people of Cange, Haiti needed water. Some of them had to walk a thousand feet down the mountain and climb back up lugging 40 pound buckets of water. Today a new system pipes clean water up the mountain and into Cange. A team of Clemson engineering students working with the Haitian partners helped make this happen.

Clemson Engineers For Developing Countries, CDEC, began in the fall of 2009 when seven students in civil engineering noticed that something was missing from their curriculum. CDEC designed a system that would filter out large contaminates, kill microbes and ultraviolet radiation and chlorine, and then transport the water through the village in new pipes buried underneath recently paved roads. It would be the first chlorinated municipal water system in the country of Haiti.

I met CDEC professor in practice, David Vaughn, in 2016 as we began telling the story of Clemson engineers traveling to Cange, Haiti as they continued to work alongside the Haitian people to service the municipal water system. Here is the interesting intersection. Clemson engineers were not traveling just to build and maintain this water system, they were traveling to Cange to work alongside the Haitian people, building global relationships. An educational experience for this new global economy. An educational experience outside the walls of the traditional classroom.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

David Vaughn: It kind of goes back down to if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it. Did it actually make a sound? And what that three minute video did was enabled people to hear what we’ve done.

Bobby Rettew: Welcome to Intersection. I’m Bobby Rettew.

David Vaughn: Okay, David Vaughn born raised in Centerville, South Carolina. Civil engineering degree from the University of North Carolina Charlotte. Worked in civil engineering project management for almost all my life. Actually spent a lot of time with Flour in Greenville, South Carolina 2000. December 2009 started volunteer my time. Attended the first meeting with Upper Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina about a water project. When I attended that meeting, I met these group of students that called themselves Clemson Engineers For Developing Countries.

David Vaughn: Worked with them for pretty much about nine months. Finally went down with them to Haiti. And when we went down there, I had just come out of Afghanistan. And I was the chief engineer of the southern expansion. I looked at one of the stakeholders with a EUSE. And said, “You realize I do this for a living?” He says, “You’re now the project manager.”

Bobby Rettew: A few years ago the people of Cange, Haiti needed water. Some of them had to walk 1000 feet down the mountain and climb back up, lugging 40 pound buckets of water. Today, a new system pipes, clean water up the mountain, and into Cange. A team of Clemson engineering students working with their Haitian partners help make this happen.

Bobby Rettew: Clemson Engineers For Developing Countries, CEDC began in the fall of 2009, when seven students in civil engineering noticed that something was missing from their curriculum. CEDC designed a system that would filter out large contaminants, kill microbes in ultraviolet radiation and chlorine, and then transport the water through the village in new pipes buried underneath recently paved roads. It would be the first chlorinated municipal water system in the country of Haiti. I met CEDC professor in practice David Vaughn in 2016, as we began telling the story of Clemson engineers traveling to Cange, Haiti as they continue to work alongside the Haitian people to service the municipal water system.

Bobby Rettew: Here’s the interesting intersection, Clemson engineers were not traveling just to build and maintain this water system, they were traveling to Cange to work alongside the Haitian people building global relationships, an educational experience for this new global economy. An educational experience outside the walls of the traditional classroom.

David Vaughn: When we started it out, I think there was seven civil engineers that were in the program. These are kids who were do gooders. Now, we’re at times over 100 students in the program. It’s no longer about just about civil engineering anymore. We have 28 to 33 different disciplines that are in the program.

Bobby Rettew: Outside of engineering as well.

David Vaughn: Absolutely. So, it’s all seven colleges.

Bobby Rettew: So, it’s really across the curriculum at Clemson, you don’t have to be an engineer to be a part of this.

David Vaughn: That’s correct. What we’ve really understood is that engineering isn’t necessarily about the engineer you think of. Engineering simply means problem solver. When you go through there and look at what we’re trying to tackle in the central plateau of Haiti, it’s about solving problems.

Bobby Rettew: So, tell me if you had to describe CEDC, first of all, explain the acronym, and explain how it fits into Clemson Engineering as a college.

David Vaughn: Okay. CEDC is Clemson Engineering For Developing Countries. There’s a lot of times we’ve struggled with the name engineering just because people are scared of it. But once again, they really do take a hold of it. So we actually have marketing majors that work in there. We’ve got Econ students. But where it benefits the university is we use project based learning. So, every single team that works together actually has a project statement that they’re working against. One of the things of what it does is actually supplements the curriculum that is there. We’re actually doing a lot of assessments right now to better understand what are the outcomes that the students are actually achieving? There’s been a lot of things that we’re wrong about overtime. First of all, Jeff and I had really established that we could only have seniors and graduate students in the program because they were the only ones with enough technical acumen. Then we wrote into the bylaws of the program that it was going to become evergreen. Well, students kept graduating and leaving. So, you really were never going to get your feet up under you. Then we said, okay, bring in juniors, then it was bring in sophomores. Okay, then finally it was, bring in the freshmen straight out of high school. When we did that, that first year, those freshmen were outperforming some seniors. And then they stayed for four years. Aaron Gordon was a classic example of one of those students. By the time they got to their senior year, these students were carved out of wood. You could literally drop them anywhere on earth and they would change the world.

Bobby Rettew: So, tell me, many people, when they think about a college of engineering and a program that operates inside that. The first thing a parent or external personal will think is, there a class involved? Do I get credits? Why do I do this? Should I … What’s the makeup of the discipline?

David Vaughn: First of all, we meet every Friday afternoon. It is a classroom environment. We meet everyone collectively and essentially every three weeks you’re on stage presenting. The next hour is we’re actually spending time planning where every team breaks down and are working on their individual projects.

Bobby Rettew: Tell us a little bit about what are some of the projects that these students are working on that are pretty much outside of the classroom curriculum? Give me a gamut of the projects.

David Vaughn: The first project was the municipal water system in Cange, which just so happens to be the first chlorinated municipal water system in the entire country of Haiti. And that has been acknowledged by the UNWHO. The next project we talk about is the bio digesters. This takes sanitary sewer and we actually have that connected to the school that has 1500 students and another building. And we can process that sanitary sewer, and it has a 99.98% efficacy against E. coli and cholera. Which means it kills it all, and it produces methane. So, it’s actually a net plus system that helps prevent disease from getting into the environment. We also have, for example, economic development projects. One of those was a fish farm, aquaculture where they’re actually growing tilapia. This is the one thing we got to understand is that when we are working with communities, it’s not about giving them clean water or sanitation or whatever it may be, it is we’ve got to think about the community holistically. If they can’t start paying for their own in the future, then we’re really not installing sustainable solutions. One of the current projects we’re working on is a hydroelectric project. Where they’re actually, the students have gone down there and we have extra water that comes across to them.

Bobby Rettew: In Haiti?

David Vaughn: In Haiti.

Bobby Rettew: In Cange Haiti.

David Vaughn: We are able to take that water and run it downhill, turn a turbine, turn a generator and actually supply power. So, the students have gone down and actually measured the water coming from the dam in Haiti. They’re able to understand how much energy it will create. They have been doing electrical assessments in the compound. And when everything is said and done right now, the stakeholder that we’re working with, which is [inaudible 00:08:17] they’re paying around $250000 a year for electricity. This system will have a return on investment in less than two years. So, some of these things are no-brainers.
Bobby Rettew: Let’s talk a little bit about Clemson Engineering. Here’s one of the reasons why I got interested in this project. Number one is, as many of you do not know, I started off at Clemson as an engineering student. I came from a family of engineers. And when I got to my second … Right after the end of my sophomore year in civil engineering, I think I took Professor Bob’s class and I can’t remember if it was statics or what it was. But it kicked my butt so much that I was like, you know what, maybe I’m not an engineer.

David Vaughn: But when I think about my time as an engineering student, and then I turned out to be a math student, a math undergrad. The reason why I like the CEDC so much is that if that was installed when I was an undergrad, I wonder where I’d be today. Talk about how the student, it takes the statics and dynamics and that physics and that calculus, and all that stuff and it says, “Hey, we’ve got that. We’re going to really show you what engineers do.” Talk about the connection that turns into real world solutions after Clemson.

David Vaughn: Right. A lot of students … Well, first of all, I think everyone learns differently to start with. And going through and giving them a problem. And then what they’ve got to do is digest that problem. And then as they’re going through there, they start saying, well, what literature do we need to have to pull down? Or how do we break this problem down? Or how do we solve this problem? And then a lot of times are going back to their faculty members and learning how to apply what they’re learning in the classroom to this real world problem.

David Vaughn: In the end, if you start looking at what industry is looking for, is they’re actually wanting students who can basically think for themselves, who can solve their own problems. What this does is it brings the element of the real world into the classroom. Rather than just learning from a textbook, or from a professor from the room, what this does is truly Applied Science. They’re able to get through there and solve real world problems.

David Vaughn: But the other piece is, is that as projects are being performed, if you go there and ask an engineer, what’s the most perfect design? It’s one that was never installed. The reality is, is that you can go through there and do all the designs. But once you get to the field, you will run into a whole new set of problems. And I think the students who go through there and can see the full lifecycle of a project are much more prepared for the real world.

David Vaughn: I believe that was Jeff Plumblee. He ended up running into a gentleman and I got invited into a meeting. I started having meetings with Dr. Harry Morris, and I think [inaudible 00:11:35] who is with the CDC. At some point in time he was invited to actually go down and visit Cange. Let me back up a little bit and talk about the Episcopal Diocese of Upper South Carolina. The Episcopal Diocese of Upper South Carolina has had a relationship with Cange, Haiti for nearly 40 years.

Bobby Rettew: Why?

David Vaughn: So, Father Lafontant, met the bishop from South Carolina and they started talking. It was really a happenstance connection.

Bobby Rettew: And he was father-

David Vaughn: Father Lafontant was the priest in Cange Haiti.

Bobby Rettew: Got you. They met and they started thinking about collaboration.

David Vaughn: That is correct.

Bobby Rettew: When we talk about Cange, people when they think of Haiti, the first thing I thought of when I thought of Haiti was the first time I went on a cruise ship, and I stopped in one side of the touristy side of Haiti. And I had a perception of a beach. Describe Haiti to people. And then once you describe Haiti and the Haitians, let’s talk about college. But let’s talk about Haitians first.

David Vaughn: My first trip into Haiti was in 1980. And when we traveled down, we drove to Miami. Miami was the dirtiest, ugliest town I’d ever seen in my life, and I couldn’t wait to get out of Miami. And then the next day we flew to Haiti. I spent two weeks in Haiti. And there was little infrastructure. You had sewer running in the streets, the water that you could not drink, people without jobs, disease, just incredible suffering as far as people goes. I was really probably a freshman in high school when I saw that. When I flew back into Miami after that trip, it was the most beautiful place I’ve seen in my life. Where we work in Haiti now is in the central plateau, and it’s far away from Port-au-Prince, but-

Bobby Rettew: It’s North East a little bit.

David Vaughn: That’s correct. But we’re also dealing with a population that probably makes around $1 a day. Most people can’t fathom making $350 a year. It’s beyond subsistence farming. It’s really, people are just barely eking by a living. So, it’s hard for people to relate. You can go down there and visit and see and it’s shocking. One thing that’s come from the students is they’ll see our video, they see the pictures, they hear the stories, but when they go see it, and they smell it, they start to understand that it’s real. It’s really and truly it’s a country that has very little infrastructure. If you think about what enables us as Americans to be who we are, it’s about investment in infrastructure. Even though we talk about our failing infrastructure, imagine this country without infrastructure, because that is what enables us to be who we are.

Bobby Rettew: We flew into … Well, you have Port-au-Prince. And the first time I went there, I remember the first couple of impressions were that there’s trash everywhere. So, there’s not a trash system.

David Vaughn: Correct.

Bobby Rettew: I remember just seeing, just boxes and just stuff all over the place. That was a little visually overwhelming.

David Vaughn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Bobby Rettew: The second thing I noticed was the Haitian people are happy people.

David Vaughn: That’s correct.

Bobby Rettew: That’s what I love. Here, we fly into this place that in many accounts is a third world country, the limited infrastructure, but they’re happy a people.

David Vaughn: Right. You’ve heard for years that people talk about money doesn’t make you happy, but it’s hard to believe when you’re American because the point is that the more money you have, the more possessions you can have. But when you go to Haiti and everyone you meet, they’re happy to see you. They’re happy together. It’s not just because you’re there, but generally speaking, is they have a love for life, okay? I just wish you could know how that is. But really, and truly is that I think we’ve got to look at life a little bit differently. We’ve got to figure out is that what’s our driver in life? In other words, why are we trying to do what we’re trying to do?

David Vaughn: Is it, are we chasing money? Or are we trying to have impact and change the world? I think that to some degree, everyone needs to be focusing on things outside of yourself. Because when all you try to do just acquire assets, you lose sight of what life is about. I think really and truly is that Haitians are good at living life. One of the things that you also learn is that Americans are time based. We have meetings at a certain time, we set certain parameters for it. And everything is on a schedule. When I’m first going on there, and keep in mind, I’m going on there as a professional project manager to help run this job. People may not show up for the meetings on time, or especially if it rains. If it rains, the meeting is off.

David Vaughn: But, the first thing is when you sit down is they’re going to ask you about your family. They’re going to want to know and understand that you’re doing well. So, there’s a lot of care for each other. Then once you get beyond all that, then you can start talking about the business. But it really is, it’s a relationship based society. They really do care for each other. And I think that’s one thing that is very different that you see between the cultures.

Bobby Rettew: What attracted me to this project was not so much about the Haitian people, but was about the need. Obviously, down in Port-au-Prince, there’s a need, there’s an infrastructure need. There’s so many needs. America just wants to solve problems and they could just dump their infrastructure on there, they can just solve problems. But we weren’t about that, Clemson isn’t about that. There was a different type of problem that was up the mountain. So, let’s make our way up the mountain to Cange. To me the first time going to Cange, there was a mood shift from going from Port-au-Prince, all the way up to Cange. Describe Cange for us.

David Vaughn: To describe Cange, I need to go back and give you some history. The United States decided to help Haiti back in the 1950s, and they want to supply electric power to Port-au-Prince. So, there was this nice river there located near Cange, and they decided to install a hydroelectric dam. I believe this completed around 1958. If I also remember correctly, that it was another probably four years before it actually generated electricity.But when the dam was installed, the water started to rise, and the government did not tell the people that the water would rise. All these families who had these fertile lands were displaced. They didn’t have a place to grow their crops. And they settled at the top of this hill that they call Cange today. They lived there for probably another 10 to 15 years, and that’s when Father Lafontant arrived. He saw this population that had huge needs, no water, massive amounts of disease, no education. Just decimated population. And he started to help them.

David Vaughn: He started drawing in support that he could locally as much as he could. Then in 1978, he was able to get the Episcopal Diocese of Upper South Carolina involved. That continued to grow the relationship. There was a school there, there was a hospital there. And then Father Lafontant said, “We really need water.” So, they brought in a couple of engineers from Greenville, South Carolina. He was explaining to them that we need water in Cange. They’re like, well, we’ve tried to drill wells here 500 feet deep and there’s no water. He said, “Yeah, but there’s a spring at the bottom of the mountain, and I believe in a miracle.” They’re like, “Yeah, but water doesn’t go up hill.” He says, “I think God will find a way.”

David Vaughn: So, the engineers went down and surveyed it, and they actually talked with another engineer with Duke Energy. They started combining thoughts and they said, “Hey, can we use a turbine to take this water, and then take a pump and push it up the mountain?” So, between 1983 to 1985, they completed that project. There’s a book called Mountains Beyond Mountains, which is by Tracy Kidder. Mainly about Paul Farmer, but it tells the story of Cange. One of the things they talk about is actually having clean water delivered. At the time that water being delivered from the spring had zero fecal coliforms per a hundred mil. So, it was clean at the time. They saw huge health benefits because they actually had water.

David Vaughn: Over time, that relationship with the Episcopal Diocese continued to grow. They had one of the best schools in the entire country. The really only operable hospital in the country, they had several other satellite hospitals. And then we wanted to go all the way up to January 12, 2010 when the earthquake happened. Many of the hospitals in the country down or up Port-au-Prince were decimated, completely destroyed, And then you had this huge population that went to Cange looking for help. They cleared the church out, every square inch they had that they could actually put people to service them.

David Vaughn: It really became the Recovery Center for the country of Haiti. Zanmi Lasante, the Episcopal Diocese, everyone was pitching in everywhere they could. But what it really did was push the need for the water system because the water system that we were all doing design work on was close to collapsing. After running for almost 25, 30 years, the mechanical systems were really almost starting to fail. And the dam was literally being eroded underneath, the pump was [inaudible 00:22:55] but the other part was, is the water coming from that spring that used to be clean, now had 200 fecal coliforms forms per a hundred mil. So, literally, anyone who was drinking from that could get deadly ill.

David Vaughn: Go forward a couple more months to October 2010, the next disaster hit Haiti, which was cholera. It ran the country and no one could stop it. The reason they couldn’t stop it is that no one had invested in infrastructure, and everyone is living on the front line drinking water that they know that they might catch cholera from and die. We’ve literally had thousands of people, hundreds of thousands affected, and probably 10000, I have to give the exact number, who’ve died from the disease. Right now, those same people are still vulnerable.

David Vaughn: Just this last month with the rainy season started, Douane, which is an adjacent town has experienced 50 cholera cases who came into the hospital and they’re basically trying to correct. The point is these people are living on the front line of disease. A couple of years ago, Zanmi Lasante came to Clemson to meet with us, and we were working on a contract and working on a relationship.

Bobby Rettew: Who is that for everybody that doesn’t know.

David Vaughn: Zanmi Lasante, means Partners in Health in Creole. So, this is really the organization that Paul Farmer and Father Lafontant formed. It really is … It’s actually the largest NGO in the country of Haiti. Their Chief of Staff, her name is Liz Campo, came here to Clemson to the campus. And she was explaining that they had been invited to a water conference, and this was October 2017. But they had a paper that was due, an abstract in May 2017.

David Vaughn: She says, “They want to talk about microbiology. What are we going to talk about?” I’m like, “Talk about cholera.” They said, “Well, how would we talk about cholera?” I said, “Go to UNICEF and get the experiential data for how it’s spread across the country.” And I said, “What you do is look at really October 2010, look at how it spread across the country, up until today. And then I want you to do one thing.” She says, “What’s that?” I said, “I want you to go look on the map at Cange.” She’s like, what am I going to see.” I said, “When you see it, you’ll know.”

David Vaughn: About two months later, she calls me up and says, “David, there’s problem.” I said, “Well, what’s the problem?” She says, “I’ve reviewed the data and there’s a hole in the data.” I said, “What do you mean there’s a hole in the data?” She said, “I’m going through this, and basically where all the cases are on the map are red.” She says, “The entire country of Haiti is red except for Cange, and it’s a white splotch on the map.” I said, “You’re correct.” She says, “That means we’re not collecting data.” I said, “No, that means we don’t have any cholera.” She said, “Well, wait, are you telling me that investment in infrastructure prevents disease?” I’m like, “Yes.”

David Vaughn: What we’re able to do is when we went to the water conference, we were able to explain to people that if you invest in infrastructure, you can prevent disease. We’re now meeting with the UNWHO, we’re now meeting with USAID, and they’re starting to realize that if we can invest in this way, we can actually start saving lives.

David Vaughn: The first meeting we had was last year, which was June 23, 2017, when the United Nations World Health Organization came to Cange to meet with us. We toured the entire water system from top to bottom. And then we went and reviewed the body gestures. They told us openly that they had done assessments on water systems and sanitation systems across the entire country of Haiti, and this was the first chlorinated municipal water system in the entire country. And they’re now pushing to see if we can actually establish a center of excellence there to bring others in around the country to show them what the art of the possible is.

Bobby Rettew: Let’s talk about this first discussions and how we had these conversations of how do we tell the story of Cange that isn’t an educational video, but isn’t an emotional video. Let’s go back to that first meeting. What do you remember?

David Vaughn: That first meeting, it was not a normal meeting. Mainly because, as an engineer, there’s certain methodology that you use to solve problems. Sometimes, really telling a story is you’ve got to get something that has visual representation that people can see. There’s got to be a situation that’s the problem. We’ve got to find ways to tell a story of how that was solved, and then the benefits that come from that, that really help you tell that in a very short way of doing that, a short segment.

David Vaughn: So, really and truly is that this is where, I don’t know that we had the skill sets internally to do that. And that’s really where I think that having you in the room leading us and guiding us to pull the elements of what will be in the story to create the storyline. But really and truly is that I don’t even think that we had the complete storyline nailed down until we went down there.

Bobby Rettew: Right.

David Vaughn: We knew that we wanted to be around water. There was a problem that would come up that had to be addressed, and there would be this moment where there was an accomplishment. And then you can see the benefits that came from that. But what was really nice is that, I think through a lot of the filmmaking there were some snippets of stock film that we have from the past. For example, the turbine going down the mountain. Those things are very powerful for us. Others may not know what that is, but what that shows is the incredible amount of teamwork of how collaborative it is.

David Vaughn: This is one thing, I really do think that I think beyond just to clean water, I think what I took from the story in the end, it wasn’t about engineering. It was about Clemson working hand in hand with locals.

Bobby Rettew: When we started planning this project, we sat down and we looked at like, we want to tell a story about how a Clemson student, an engineering student can come and get an engineering degree and change the world. Now, that’s a bit cliché, right? Everyone wants to do that. Everybody wants to showcase that. So, we started thinking about it. We had this meeting. And what you did was lay out a map. This is where the village is, and this is where the water comes from. And it is roughly about 12 to 15 stories below.

David Vaughn: In my mind, you can’t visualize that. I kept on hearing the story of the steps. Let’s talk about the steps. The village is at the very top of the mountain, and the water is at the very bottom of the mountain. These aren’t just average steps to get. The steps weren’t there before. Talk about where the water was, and where it was taken and what happened with that.

David Vaughn: Before the water system, people literally had to climb down the mountains with buckets and bring the water up. There were no steps. You and I would not make it.

Bobby Rettew: I barely made it the first time I went up the steps.

David Vaughn: The steps literally had just been completed in the last five years. They were coming up the mountain and there’s 535 of them. They’re not built per code, which means that they have different sizes and everything in it really plays havoc on you.

Bobby Rettew: Some of them are at least a foot tall.

David Vaughn: Right. The total Rise of the water from the bottom is 1100 feet, okay? So, the pressure for the water in your house is probably around 60 psi. At the very bottom when we’re pumping the water up, we’re around 475 psi to basically get the water to rise that entire height. It’s a very powerful system to do that. It takes about 24 horsepower to push that water up the mountain.

Bobby Rettew: So, there is a spring that comes through the mountain where the water comes through a dam, a dam that you all created so that the water is pushed down and powers a turbine, which turns around and pushes water up the mountain through two sets of pipes that sit in what, five or six cisterns-

David Vaughn: Four cisterns.

Bobby Rettew: Four cisterns at the very top. Before they go to the cisterns, they are chlorinated.

David Vaughn: They are filtered and chlorinated.

Bobby Rettew: Filtered and chlorinated, and they sit in the cisterns. Because they’re at the top of the mountain, they then create pressure to push down to fountains throughout the village, correct?

David Vaughn: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Bobby Rettew: So, now these people don’t have to walk down the mountain, they can walk out of their house to a fountain.

David Vaughn: Right.

Bobby Rettew: Now, we have this area that has clean water, is that correct?

David Vaughn: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: How long did it take to build that system to where it is today? Is it a 40 year project? 30 years? Did it happen in stages?

David Vaughn: Well, the first part of the project was done, like I said, between 1983 to ’85. When it was done at that time, there was engineers from Upper South Carolina and they actually had hired a Haitian contractor to do the work. But it’s much smaller scale. The scale that we went to today is we have a very robust dam. When you talk about the spring, when most people think about springs, springs aren’t that powerful-

Bobby Rettew: This is a very big spring.

David Vaughn: This spring, we’ve measured it, and dependent on whether wet or dry season has around 24000 gallons per minute. Okay, so from how big is that? Most people’s normal swimming pool that you’ll see up behind their house is around 24000 gallons. Imagine filling that up in one minute, okay? That happens every minute, 24 hours a day. So, there’s a lot of water.

David Vaughn: When we capture that water in the dam, it flows down to that turbine, and there’s 3500 gallons a minute that goes to the turbine, which turns a pump. Now, what this is, is a mechanical advantage. So, for every 70 gallons that goes to that turbine, it lifts one gallon up the mountain. So, really and truly is that actually, the entire system runs off gravity. There’s no electricity in the system at all. Once it goes up to the filter building, it goes through there, we have huge cartridge filters that water flows through, those things are washed a couple times a day. Then we have a chlorinator. We literally use chlorine tablets like you would see in a swimming pool. And that’s what we chlorinate the water system with.

David Vaughn: Then it goes into the cisterns. What we found is that the cisterns are actually part of the treatment system. That literally, water goes in there and sits and is very still and almost acts as a clarifier. So, any sediment literally falls to the bottom. When it comes out the fountain it’s crystal clear. What we found is that we’re able to actually come up with consistency. Now, keep in mind, we’ve got to clean behind the dam at times, we’ve got to go and, we’re constantly working in the filter building. Once a month we’re cleaning out the cisterns.

David Vaughn: There’s lots of maintenance involved to keep the system running. But the point is, is that it’s actually a very low cost system that others are trying to figure out how to replicate.

Bobby Rettew: Now, a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection, Touchpoint Media. A collection of podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things health care. Including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies. The challenges of the online position, the power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health. That is touchpoint.health. Let’s joining the show.

Bobby Rettew: You have worked with the people side by side in Cange to harness the power of the water, to provide healthy clean water. And now, you’re looking at harnessing the power of water to provide electricity to the village. Let’s talk about how that evolution of, we went from water, to now a massive power bill that was being created for this village and the hospital and you started doing some math problems and started recognizing this. Let’s talk about that.

David Vaughn: Well, first thing is, is and the Haitians will tell you that water is life. I think that’s evident in the water system. The thing is that we’re going to there, and we’re always realizing, we’re using, we’ve got three turbines connected the system, we only run about two at a time. But we had extra water that kept coming over the dam. We were like, so, we have extra power here we can utilize in some way, shape, or form.

David Vaughn: Then the question was, do we have enough to make electricity and make it worthwhile? We started to having conversations with Zanmi Lasante to understand how much power they’re using. They didn’t have a real good idea. They even started asking about how much were the bills that they were paying. We finally figured out that they were paying a quarter million dollars a year. On top of that, they have a generator. That generator runs probably 40% of the time sometimes. So, the bill’s probably much higher. It may be closer to $300000 a year that’s costing them to actually supply electricity.

David Vaughn: We went down and we were trying to figure out, okay, now how do you measure the water? We know it’s going back and reading the original reports of the guys who do back in the ’80s, they were literally taking oranges and dropping to the stream to try to measure how much water there was.

Bobby Rettew: How do you measure flow of water and what the opportunity is? Talk about that from an engineering standpoint, it’s very simple.

David Vaughn: Well, it sounds simple, but it’s not as simple. First of all, you’ve got to understand is that what is the cross sectional area of the water that is flowing?

Bobby Rettew: So, the diameter of the tube that the water’s coming through.

David Vaughn: Right. Or the stream, because they’d be flat. Because originally, the water flowing [inaudible 00:38:09] but we’re trying to measure it there. But the problem is, there’s so much variability, and we weren’t going to be able to really get really good numbers. But we do have a waste pipe where we can actually drain behind the dam. So, if we can get all the water run through there, we can actually put an orifice plate in.

Bobby Rettew: Which is, it looks like a donut.

David Vaughn: Yes, a donut.

Bobby Rettew: You put it in, and why are you doing that?

David Vaughn: Once we understand if we can get that donut filled with water and create a jet, a water jet, and we can understand how much water is standing behind the dam, and we can measure how many feet through difference there is, we can understand how much pressure there is behind it. From there, we can actually calculate how many gallons per minute.

Bobby Rettew: Then what does that gallons per minute provide you from a mathematical situation to look at the turbines pumping the water, but also to create electricity, possibly?

David Vaughn: From there, what we were able to measure is we had just over 9000 gallons per minute. Then we had survey instruments where we’re going to actually measure how much fall we have. In other words, we have probably close to 60 feet, that that water will fall, and we can actually harness the power from that 9000 gallons per minute at 60 feet of fall.

David Vaughn: From there, we calculate that we should be able to generate … We’re not using the entire 9000, but we’re talking about 6000 gallons per minute. We will be able to generate right at 35 kilowatts of power that could be supplied to Cange.

Bobby Rettew: Put kilowatts of power in terms of the average person. What will that do for them?

David Vaughn: In Haiti or [inaudible 00:39:49]

Bobby Rettew: Well, for those people, what would it give them?

David Vaughn: First of all, you’ve got the operations of the hospital which is reliant on power. If they’re doing X rays or running the computer systems or whatever it may be, they need electricity to do that. They’ve also got kitchens. In Cange, they have businesses that they’re running. So, they have refrigeration, and lots of other-

Bobby Rettew: They have the school.

David Vaughn: The school. But the most interesting thing about electricity are these things called light bulbs. Here in the United States, we have a hard time getting children to study. And in Haiti, there are lights throughout the compound. If you walk through the compound at night, you’ll see children sitting under the street light studying because they’re trying to make it in life. They realize that studying will help them get there.

David Vaughn: Light bulbs changed their world because these kids are having to go out there and do chores, they’re going to school and they’re trying to study. But right now, they can only study during the day. The actual concept of having a light bulb changes their world. So, that’s one thing is, is that I think is education is one of the biggest benefits for the children. And it’s because of the light bulb.

Bobby Rettew: I want to start connecting some dots here. One of the moments that was very powerful for me that turned on the light bulb, so to speak for me, as we started figuring out this narrative was the moment when we were putting the orifice plate in. You and I both know this moment, and I’ve taken pictures of it, I’ve got tons, I could talk about it for hours. Is, two Clemson students, their job was to get down into where the water was and install this orifice plate and then drill, using drills, drill in screws to hold it in place, so when they turn the water back on, they could measure so they can figure out all these things we’ve been talking about.

David Vaughn: They get down there and they start putting it in. And all of a sudden the orifice plate just flies out. They’re trying to put it in, and these two students are working Hard, they’re taking their tops off, just because they’re soaking wet. And they’re pushing it in, and the Haitian people are looking at it and they’re like, they start jumping in.

David Vaughn: I had this great picture of this community of people working together to solve this problem. The Haitian people, and the Clemson students didn’t see them as one group was better than the other, they saw themselves as a collaborative unit. As a team of family members working together to solve a problem. So, this great picture that I was lucky enough to capture is, here are the Haitian friends and the Clemson friends holding this orifice plate in, while someone is measuring because at that moment in time, it was the aha moment that we can not only provide water, but we can provide electricity to this whole place in that one moment.

David Vaughn: When we think about that one moment, that’s a tough story to tell. It really is a tough story to tell in three minutes, or three and a half. So let me ask you this, why was it so important for us to come tell the story for Clemson?

David Vaughn: First of all, one is, the story you told really delivered a message, and it was an emotional message. It was true in so many sense of the word. When people ask me, what is Clemson Engineers For Developing Countries? Where do I start? Do I talk about the classroom environment? Do I talk about the individual students? Do I talk about the impacts or the outcomes of the students? There’s so much that literally I can go on for hours and hours. We have publication after publication, and acknowledgments and awards and all these things we can talk about.

David Vaughn: The point is, is that having the ability to condense that down to visually show who, what, when, where, and how impacts emotion in three minutes is a challenge. That is a service that I think adds value beyond the actual work that we’re doing. Because the point is, is that it goes back down to, if a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it actually make a sound? What that three minute video did was enabled people to hear what we’ve done. So, really and truly is that you brought the story to where it was accessible to everyone.

Bobby Rettew: Outside of just beating your chest a little bit, why is it so important to contextualize that story in a way that the broader audience can see it? The people that love Clemson, the alumni, the potential students, the higher ups, why was it important to tell that story in a way that wasn’t what you’ve done previously, but in a new way?

David Vaughn: First of all, I think it’s one, is to grab their attention. One, is to show what Clemson has done, what Clemson is doing, but also to make you look a little deeper, and say, what else is Clemson doing? Or to say, I want to know more about this program. But I think more than anything, is that there are a lot of different audiences who will look at that video and they’ll walk away with something different. If you take a student who is in high school and sees that video, and they see a student going down to Haiti and working, starting the classroom and going down there, they’re going to say, “Wow, I can do that.” Okay?

David Vaughn: Or, you start looking at and you start talking about the faculty at the University, they can sit there and say, “Wow, we’re doing work in these areas. And oh man, I need to be able to teach students who can do those types of things.” But then, I met with industry folks who see that video, and they’re like, “Wow, you’re preparing my future employees.” Then you look at the alum who come from Clemson, and they see that video and they get pride and they’re like, “We are changing the world.”

David Vaughn: The point is that no matter who’s looking at that video, they can walk away with something a little bit different because they’re looking at it through their lens.

Bobby Rettew: How do you think this has impacted the students? When they go to these places and they walk away, and they go into industry, how’s it different than if they would just had a traditional classroom? What do you mean?

David Vaughn: This thing called fear which we’re still trying to quantify, most students who come up through the university and this isn’t the fault of the University at all, they don’t think they can change the world. They’re there to get an education and everything else. Really and truly is that through this program, for some reason, somehow we can show them that they can do these things, these things are possible. Now, keep in mind there are many times when we’ve sat down with students crying, bawling because the projects are too hard. And we’ll go through there and write up, and it may be a two page project description for hydroelectric is a good example of that. Where we’ve actually had the property manager breakdown with Chris [inaudible 00:47:55] and I, he’s an industry advisor from Greenville.

David Vaughn: They were just explaining, this is too hard. We can’t do this. And we’re like, “Yes, you can.” We walk them through how to solve that problem. When they get done with it, they walk away with a sense of pride. When the students go down, and they visit Cange and they see it firsthand, a lot of these pieces that were abstract before become real. Then the select few who are chosen to become interns, they go down there and live. They go through phases when they’re down there. And they’re down there for seven months. Some of them stay for 12 months, okay?

David Vaughn: They don’t know the language, they don’t know the culture, they don’t know who to talk to buy materials. They’re going there at a base level. They go through there and they learn the language. They learn how to work with people, they learn how to manage a project, they learn how to run a schedule, they run how to manage money. They know how to oversee engineering in the field. They know how to work with people. They understand quality control, they understand all of these things. When they get done, every one of those students, I could drop anywhere on earth, and I would not worry about them.

David Vaughn: The point is, it prepares them for anything in life after that. Because if you can do a project in Haiti in the central plateau of Haiti, you can do work anywhere on earth.

Bobby Rettew: Let’s talk about that. My final narrative that we exposed was the steps you take here, you can change the world.

David Vaughn: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobby Rettew: We showcase the steps. We showcased Aaron running up and down the steps. We showcased him mirroring those metaphoric steps inside Haiti to the steps he was making here in America. So, there’s this metaphor of steps and taking the next step and walking up the steps. Because for people to understand the gravity of what happens there, they have to understand and feel the true gravity of the steps.

Bobby Rettew: I remember walking this 534 steps the first time and I about died. You told me, you were like, “Bobby, don’t run up the steps. Do it like the Haitian people.” I’m like, “Whatever, I’m just going to run up the steps.” I get a quarter way up, and I’m about dead. You have to talk me all the way up. Then the second time I go back, I do what the Haitian people do. I take my time. I slowly walk up. I watch them walk the steps and have community, and have conversation.

Bobby Rettew: So, the steps, we spent a lot of time thinking through that narrative and showing that inside these videos of showing how people stopped and talked. And the collaboration and how people work together. We use the steps as a metaphor to break down this idea of white privilege and white savior. How intentional were conversations behind that?

David Vaughn: I think very intentional. There’s been a lot of books that have been written, and there’s a lot of propaganda out about those subjects. The reality is, is that when you go down there, and you see how we work with the locals. We may advise and everything else, but they’re the ones who are doing the work. We win when they don’t need us anymore, okay?

David Vaughn: We’re literally trying to find ways to transfer that knowledge, and finding those right people who basically can carry these things forward. But what’s so interesting about all of this, is that this concept of a win-win strategy. The student that goes down there to work wins. Because they’re thrown into a situation that they’d never dealt with before. But when they come out, they’re 10 times stronger than they were before.

David Vaughn: The locals who were working hand in hand on those projects, they gain benefit for by getting clean water, or they might be on the water team. They might be in some level of pay. But the community in general wins. We also have the donors like the Episcopal Diocese of Upper South Carolina who are sending money down. If you remember, after the earthquake, all that money was consumed by administration, or the corruption or whatever else. Because of the situation, they had 100% accountability for their funds. They knew exactly where the money was, and it all went into the project, okay?

David Vaughn: Clemson wins because now we have a program that’s better preparing students for the future, and they’re able to tell that story. And industry wins. So, the point is, is that in life, years ago, I always thought you had to have a winner and a loser. In project management, you would go out bit out of job and either the client got the better deal, or the contractor got the better deal, someone, it was always a winner and a loser, okay?

David Vaughn: In this situation wins. It makes it a no brainer going forward. The point is, is that I think there’s something special here. There’s a store that needs to be told. Because what this does is this not only changes our educational system of how we educate, but it improves our students of the future. It improves what industry can expect, okay? But it also can actually solve real world problems that right now, a lot of the folks that are out there working with the UNWHO are not very technical.

David Vaughn: We’ve got students who have these capabilities, who can plug in and solve these problems. So, I really think what it is, is what we’re doing is we’re basically cross walking the needs. And if we can do that effectively, we will change the world.

Bobby Rettew: Ladies and gentlemen, David Vaughn. Thank you for your time.

David Vaughn: Thank you.

Bobby Rettew: Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touchpoint Media and Network. Podcast dedicated to discussion on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies. CIO, new technology strategies, the challenge of the online physician. A power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to http://touchpoint.health. That is, touchpoint.health. Have a good day.

Since 2013, the Duke Endowment has funded summer literacy programs in North Carolina designed to engage United Methodist rural churches and improve literacy among elementary school students in their communities. These summer literacy programs are providing more than just building confidence for the children. These host churches are providing nurturing relationships, nutritious meals, daily enrichment activities, and more importantly, a safe space for families to engage and chart a path for the future.

I met Reverend Mary Jane Wilson-Parsons in June 2018. She is the co-pastor at Seaside United Methodist Church in Sunset Beach, North Carolina. She recognized a need in her community, beyond the resort golf courses and high net worth retirees, that there are large pockets of poverty where underprivileged elementary children needed help. They needed help with basic literacy skills, especially during the summer months. This is called the “summer slide.”

I found a unique intersection in this story. One that we at Gray Digital Groupwere telling for the Duke Endowment, to recruit more United Methodist Churches in North Carolina to host summer literacy programs. The Church was a safe space to teach literacy, not the schools. A safe space for children, parents, teachers, and community partners to come together under one roof. One church roof. Their mission is to provide social justice for these children in the form of literacy skills so they could overcome the summer slide and perform just as well as other students in their classrooms.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Reverend Mary J: My name is Reverend Mary Jane Wilson-Parsons. I’m co-pastor at Seaside United Methodist Church in Sunset Beach, North Carolina.

Bobby Rettew: What is your greatest passion?

Reverend Mary J: My greatest passion is to assist others to learn how to be the hands and feet of Christ, to learn what their ministry is, as disciples of Christ and to help them to be equipped in the world to go out and serve.

Bobby Rettew: Since 2013, The Duke Endowment has funded Summer Literacy Programs in North Carolina designed to engage United Methodist rural churches and improve literacy among elementary school students and their communities. These Summer Literacy Programs are providing more than just building confidence for the children. These host churches are providing nurturing relationships, nutritious meals, daily enrichment activities, and more importantly, a safe space for families to engage and chart a path for the future. I met Reverend Mary Jane Wilson-Parsons in June, 2018. She is a co-pastor at Seaside United Methodist Church in Sunset Beach, North Carolina. She recognized the need in her community, beyond the resort golf courses and high net worth retirees, that there are large pockets of poverty where underprivileged elementary children needed help. They needed help with basic literacy skills, especially during the summer months. This is called the summer slide. I found a unique intersection in this story, one that we at Gray Digital Group are telling for the Duke Endowment, to recruit more United Methodist churches in North Carolina, to host Summer Literacy Programs. The church was a safe space to teach literacy, not the schools, a safe space for children, parents, teachers and community partners to come together under one roof, one church roof. Their mission is to provide social justice for these children in the form of literacy skills, so they could overcome the summer slide and perform just as well as other students in their classrooms.

Bobby Rettew: Describe where is Sunset Beach, it is where in North Carolina as it relates to the Outer Banks and all the other stuff.

Reverend Mary J: Okay, Sunset Beach is in the extreme Southeast corner of the state. It is just North of Myrtle Beach. It is about an hour South of Wilmington, North Carolina.

Bobby Rettew: And who lives here? When I rode here, I saw golf courses and golf courses, and golf courses and golf courses. Who lives here?

Reverend Mary J: We have a lot of retirees that live in this area. Folks who have retired from professional careers of all sorts. The gamut, you name it, from teachers, to doctors, to lawyers, to all kinds of professional people, people who’ve worked in the government.

Bobby Rettew: So it’s a pretty good wide array, but to put this in context, our connection is through the Duke Endowment. So working on a project together about literacy here at Seaside, but the Duke Endowment funds … One of the areas that it’s most committed to is United Methodist Church specifically, Methodist Church in North Carolina, the rural church, and you’re considered a rural church. First of all, let’s describe the rural church of North Carolina. What does that mean? And then let’s talk about Seaside. So describe that.

Reverend Mary J: I think many rural churches in North Carolina are isolated from one another, isolated from communities. They’re small churches, sometimes they’re struggling churches, but they’re very disconnected. There’s a lot of geography in North Carolina that is rural. So we are located in Brunswick County, not in one of the municipalities of Brunswick County. And so we are considered a rural church. We are a bit of an anomaly, because we are a very large rural church. We are a church of 1000 numbers. We have about 525, 535 and three worship services every Sunday morning.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about volunteering. When we talked last time, in our interview for this project we’re working on, this video we’ll share later at some point, we sat down and had a conversation about the volunteering here, that people come here to retire and then they get bored. Describe that for us.

Reverend Mary J: Okay, so people do come from all over the State of North Carolina and other parts as well. Seaside is affectionately referred to as the Yankee Church of the area. So we have many people that come in from up north to retire, and they come here because there are hundreds of holes of golf to play here. Many golf courses, beautiful golf courses, beautiful subdivisions, and a beautiful beach, beautiful beaches. And they come here thinking that they’re going to sit on the beach and read books, or they’re going to play golf every day. And after they do that for about six months, they’re bored, and they’re wanting to do something more significant with their lives.

Bobby Rettew: And that’s why you have the congregation demographic that you have. Describe that for us.

Reverend Mary J: Yes, it’s a professional congregation. It is an awesome, awesome congregation, diverse congregation of professional retired people with vast experience in all walks of life and so much to give to the community.

Bobby Rettew: So this is an interesting thing. I grew up in a Baptist Church. And when I think about the church, I look across a space and there’s a lot of families with children, you have a population of retirees, but it’s really families. This is more of a retired group, the age group is the older generation, and many people would think, “Well, if it’s the old generations, the church is going to slowly die out.” But you said it’s more, people come here and retire, and then they go back home. And then there’s always a good group of people coming through here.

Reverend Mary J: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about that, that unique position that you have here.
Reverend Mary J: Yes. So at Seaside we have about a 20 year window of our retirees being here. They retire around anywhere from 55 to 65, generally. And then they live here for 15, 20, maybe 22 years. And then at that point, their health becomes such that they need to move back to be closer to families, or perhaps they pass away. So these are the active years of retirement, and they come with time on their hands and with money to spend, and enthusiasm.

Bobby Rettew: And there’s a lot of volunteering going on here.

Reverend Mary J: Yes, there is.

Bobby Rettew: I mean, it’s Tuesday, what’s happening? I walked in the church and it’s busy, it’s Tuesday morning.

Reverend Mary J: Tuesday morning. Boom. So every Tuesday morning, throughout the whole year, we have our food pantry that receives people from Brunswick County, who need food assistance supplement to supplement what they have already. And so we receive about 50, 60 families on a normal week. The clients come in, they receive the food that we purchase from the local food bank, also that is supplemented with food resources, donations from the various grocery stores in the area. And then after they’ve received their food, they can get their blood pressure checked by one of our health and wellness nurses, and then they can go down to the Edge of the Field Freestore, Edge of the Field, being a reference to the book of Ruth and how people glean from … The poor come and glean from the edge of the field in order to eat. And and the free store, there’s clothing, there’s house goods, there’s diapers, things that they can have for free to help them.

Bobby Rettew: And there’s something else going on.

Reverend Mary J: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: And I love this section because this is when, to paint a picture how she gets excited. The first time I interviewed about this you not only got excited, but you cried. What else is going on here?
Reverend Mary J: Well, just this week we started the fifth year of our STARS program, STARS is Seaside Teaching and Reaching Students. It is a six week literacy camp for rising second, third and fourth graders in our now two target schools in southern Brunswick County.

Bobby Rettew: So let’s paint the picture of the need, talk about the need here.

Reverend Mary J: Okay, so there are at least two Brunswick counties, really. There are the beautiful subdivisions with beautiful homes and manicure golf courses, that line the edge of the coast and the people who come here with money, resources and time resources. But then there’s the other Brunswick County, the working poor, who may be working three or four jobs just to make ends meet from month to month. And they are struggling in so many ways.

Bobby Rettew: And this camp is really serving who? Now obviously the families, there’s a need, but let’s get down to the even more intentional need here, the children. Talk about the need by the children.

Reverend Mary J: So Brunswick County is just like every other county in the country. We have a drug problem here. And so we have families where the adults are caught up in drugs, and the children are suffering, because of that, no fault of their own. They just happened to be in a family where the adults are caught up in the addiction of drugs or alcohol. We have Hispanic families who have come from perhaps very dangerous places, and they’re trying to help their children to find a better life. They are working very hard. But sometimes they’re limited in language. And they need help to be able to help their children to learn the language and to become a part of this community, then we have just the working poor who are so struggling with jobs that don’t provide a livable wage, and so they’re working multiple jobs. And so the children get left out of that equation sometimes, because the parents are just working themselves to death, frankly.

Bobby Rettew: So it’s at the end of the school year, the kids are out of school now, and they go home and they’re back in an environment that doesn’t promote literacy. And we’ve seen the research, let’s talk about the research a little bit, the summer slide.

Reverend Mary J: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about the summer slide for children regardless of socio-economic situations. But then let’s put it into context of this. Talk about the summer slide.

Reverend Mary J: Yes, so in the summertime, there there might be some slide among all children because they’re not in class. They’re not reading every day. They’re not engaging with books. But the more affluent children, the children and higher socioeconomic levels, they’re going on vacations, they’re going to museums, they’re continuing to engage because their parents have time and resources, financial resources that can help those children to engage. So this summer slump or slide is not as great for them or maybe not at all. Whereas children from lower socioeconomic groups or children that are living in homes where the parents are struggling just to understand English, they are really sliding backwards over the summer months. And so then when the kids all come back to school and the fall, they’ve not only lost some of what they learned the year before, but they’ve lost over the course of the summer.

Bobby Rettew: And so this is why this was created, is to help those students and these children in lower economic statuses not deal with that summer slide or prevent that?

Reverend Mary J: Right.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about the vision of this program and how it was created. And what has it turned into be.

Reverend Mary J: okay, so, STARS began as a conversation between myself and a couple of church members who wanted to see some kind of an after-school program. And what we thought, to begin with was that we would help kids who were latchkey children, more of a true after-school program, like a homework center or something. With the help of the Duke Endowment, we expanded that vision tremendously, to think more in terms of that summer slump, that summer reading loss, and helping children who lose ground every summer to not lose that ground, but to help them and these children that are identified by our target schools, we know that even though they are just maybe rising second graders, they are already falling behind their classmates. And so second, third, and fourth graders that are beginning to fall behind all ready, they’re not where they need to be in their reading. And if we don’t help them catch up, they’re never going to catch up.

Bobby Rettew: I was just in the classroom with … There’s four classrooms at the church. And I’ve walked through, I’ve been taking pictures and capturing video. And I look at the faces and I was thinking about my children. And then I thought about them, and I was listening to the teachers work with them. And I was just amazed how their faces lit up. The moment that they got out of the car and walk through the door. Talk about what this means to these kids.

Reverend Mary J: Oh, my gosh. Just last night, after the parent family dinners that we have on Monday nights, one of the STARS kids … Now this was at the end of the very first day of STARS for this year, one of the little girls walked up to me and she said, “I want to stay here. Can I just stay here all night.” And, and just, “I want to stay here forever.” And by the end of the six weeks, man they are super pumped. They want to come back here every summer. They love it. Even though they’re sitting in classrooms in the mornings with teachers from the school system, and teachers assistance from the school system, they’re just loving it.
Bobby Rettew: You’re wiping your tears. Why?

Reverend Mary J: It touches my heart that these children are … That we’re ministering to the children.

Bobby Rettew: Let’s talk about how we’re ministering to them.

Reverend Mary J: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: I think about and I want to set context here, for me personally. I have a daughter who’s six, will be seven. She’s in kindergarten in first grade, and we just had twins. And we’ve had a conversation about that. And the first year with the twins was a very tough year. And she started kindergarten, and kindergarten became her happy place. Because our house was just crazy. I mean, we were just trying to figure out how to take care of twins, and she was dropped into this world of not just a new brother, but two new brothers and parents who are trying to figure this out. And so school was a happy place for her. But we love her and we give her … We have the resources, we have the time, the energy. And then I thought about that for a second about the children here who we don’t know what homes they’re coming out of. And so to see that engagement is amazing to understand. Described that, why do you think these kids are not only excited about learning? What else are they excited about?

Reverend Mary J: This place gives them hope for so many different reasons. Some of them are not eating during the summer, not eating very much. We know that they’re nutrition insufficient for the summertime. We’ve seen through the years of STARS children hoarding food from the meals that we serve them, or hoarding snacks. They’ll tell us that they’re taking food home to their brothers and sisters, that they want to save part of their lunch so they can take it home to a sibling, so that their sibling has something to eat. We try to minister to that issue through sending home food every weekend for the kids to eat, until they can come back to us on Monday morning. With our parent dinners on Monday nights, we’re feeding the whole family a nutritious meal. And then oftentimes, we’re sending home a bag of food with the families from our food pantry on Monday nights as well, to help supplement what they’re getting from wherever.

Bobby Rettew: Now a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection. Touch point media, a collection of podcast dedicated to discussions on all things health care, including digital marketing, and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online position, the power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more go to touchpoint.health that is, touchpoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew: So this camp is about literacy. But it’s more than literacy.

Reverend Mary J: Oh, gosh, yes.

Bobby Rettew: What is this camp really about?

Reverend Mary J: Yeah, so yes, in the mornings, it’s all about literacy and in the afternoons, it’s supplementing the learning that they’ve done in the mornings. But they’re getting music education, they’re going on field trips, they’re seeing places around the county that they’ve never seen before. They’re having retired teachers who have been science teachers coming in working with them. Home Depot comes in and helps them build birdhouses and different things. They’re going to the public library once a week, they’re learning how to use a library and check out books, they’re going swimming on Monday afternoons, they’re learning how to swim. Many of them have never been in a pool before, they’ve never been in the water before. So they’re getting exposed to that. They’re going to First Tee, and they’re learning leadership skills through the First Tee program. They’re learning art, all kinds of things are happening in the afternoons.

Bobby Rettew: So in order to learn, you have to be able to have teachers?

Reverend Mary J: That’s right.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about who teaches this, who are these people that are leading these things?

Reverend Mary J: In the mornings, we hire teachers from the school system, and teachers assistants from the school system. We’re able to do that through the gracious gifts of the Duke Endowment. In the afternoon. it’s all volunteers, except for a couple of leadership positions that are overseeing. We have 70 to 80 volunteers here every summer from the church and the community. They come in and lead all kinds of different activities with the kids.

Bobby Rettew: So you have to be able to attract certified teachers to lead these programs. Is it hard to find these teachers? And talk about that a little bit?

Reverend Mary J: No, it’s not hard to find these teachers, in fact, because unfortunately, North Carolina teachers are not paid very well. And so many times the teachers in the summertime are working at McDonald’s, or they’re cleaning beach houses or doing other jobs to supplement their income in the summertime. That and I mean, I could talk about that for days too. So to have a well paying job in the summertime, where they’re using their skills and looks great on their resume. I’m sure it’s a blessing for them.

Bobby Rettew: And we’ve talked … I’ve interviewed the teachers, and the first thing they talk about is, “This is a place that I can come and really teach, that in the school system by the curriculum, I have to follow certain guidelines. But I can come to Seaside or I can come to a rural church and I can not only teach but I can also intermix my faith in there too.” Talk about the joy that the teachers bring, that’s different, that they get to do something beyond the scope of their normal year. Can you can you share a little bit about that.

Reverend Mary J: They do have more freedom here to … They have a smaller class size, every teacher has an assistant, which they don’t necessarily have during the school year. So you have maybe eight to 10 kids in a room with an assistant, you’re doing a lot of one on one work with kids that you’re not able to do in the public school sphere.

Bobby Rettew: So this grant from the Duke Endowment is serving the children, it’s serving the parents and it’s serving the teachers too. Pretty smart stuff.

Reverend Mary J: And don’t forget about how it’s serving the volunteers as well, because their horizons are being broadened, they’re seeing things that maybe they’ve never seen before. They’re having an opportunity to minister to children and minister to families that they probably would never have interacted with if it had not been for the STARS Program.

Bobby Rettew: So, let’s talk about outcomes of the STARS program. It’s got to be successful, if you keep on doing it.

Reverend Mary J: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: It’s got to hit some metrics, because the Duke Endowment really encourage tracking, talk about the success of the program each year.

Reverend Mary J: So, we have to smile because I’m the Harvard researcher, that the Endowment brought on board to help us to see positive outcomes and to track data, she was skeptical when she first started working with our program and with the Ubuntu Program which is in state school, across the state. And she didn’t see how a six week program could make a real positive impact, really move the needle for these kids. And after she looked at the data and saw what was happening in the school system with these children, as we have tried to follow these children now for four years and seeing how they have moved into success in academics, she had to say, “I was wrong, I really didn’t think this would make an impact. But Gosh, darn it, it does.”

Bobby Rettew: So what type of metrics are showing that there is success? Is it increased scores? Talk about the scores and all that stuff.

Reverend Mary J: Yeah, scores are going up. Yeah, double scores. Yes, and then the kids during the school year are doing better academically than they have done in years past. Now we’re still tracking data, and we’re becoming more and more intentional about how we track that data. We’re working toward having a control group, this is what the help of the Endowment again. So we’ll be able to point to even stronger data, I believe, in the years to come.

Bobby Rettew: Why was Dr. Chen from Harvard skeptical? And obviously that’s a question for her, but let’s talk about that skepticism. Why would people be skeptical about a reading program in a church? What do you think?

Reverend Mary J: Well, I guess there might be several reasons why she might be skeptical. First of all, just the brevity of the program, six weeks, half days, in the classroom. How much difference can you make in the lives of children in that short a time? Maybe also resources of people in the church. I think that they … As I’ve said, we have such vast people skills here, life experiences here that people are just so willing to jump in and say, I can help the kids with this or that or whatever.

Bobby Rettew: And I think this leads me to a couple big questions that I have. When I think about reading programs, I think about, “Oh, it’s going to be the library they’re the educator of the community. Oh, it’s gonna be at the elementary school they’re the Educator of the community they understand the needs. Oh, it’s at the church? Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, whoa.” We had this conversation before, we are iter-mixing education and faith. What’s that all about? Why do you think that combination works?

Reverend Mary J: Christ mandated it. Christ mandated that we be the hands and feet of Christ in the world. When did you see me hungry? And when did you see me thirsty? When did you see me naked? And the great commission as well to go into all the world and make disciples of Jesus Christ and teach and do and be? I think our faith naturally leads to action and service and love.
Bobby Rettew: And would you say that’s created a culture of trust with the children? That they can let down their guard a little bit, when they walk through the doors, that maybe it’s a little bit different from the school.

Reverend Mary J: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: This is a place of safety. Do you think that children receive that in a different way than may not be expected in other types of reading programs?

Reverend Mary J: I think so. I hope so. I know that they’re pretty terrified when they first walk in
these doors and their families are pretty terrified too. You can really see those walls up around them. And as we work with them, as we are a welcoming community, as we are a community of love and openness, as we try to help the families to succeed, and they see that we are here to help them succeed, and to help their children succeed, then those walls go down and they do warm up to us. And I think that again, just as the volunteers would oftentimes never connect with this community of people, so likewise, this community would never feel like they were welcome or accepted or loved in this place. The STARS Program is a gateway for folks to enter the church, that would never feel welcome in the church, otherwise.

Bobby Rettew: You’re ministering to these children. Through education, through love. The volunteers are ministering, the teachers are ministering. Are the children ministering to you?

Reverend Mary J: Yes. Absolutely. As I said that child last night, “Can I just basically move in and live here?” Yes, their hearts are open, and my heart break for them sometimes for what they’re going through at home.

Bobby Rettew: But you talk about the graduations.

Reverend Mary J: Yes. What a joyful time.

Bobby Rettew: And you talk about … And I guess I’m interested to find out from you. You see such a transformation when they leave?

Reverend Mary J: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: Is that really what makes you keep on doing it or is it the data?

Reverend Mary J: Yeah, it’s both. It’s good to be able to see that the data is backing up what we’re doing, but probably more so the opportunity for the doors of the church to be flung open wide, yes.

Bobby Rettew: And the reason why I love this so much, and I really wanted to spend time with you this morning is, the vision behind the Duke Endowment is to scale this, take it across North Carolina, and they have to get certain churches on board to figure out, to get it in the right place, to scale it. So if they’re going to scale it, obviously, there’s a need. And the churches is the beacon of the community.

Reverend Mary J: It used to be the beacon ethic community, I’m not sure that it always says anymore.

Bobby Rettew: But how do you think this could transfer transform North Carolina, through the rural church? How do you think this could truly impact if it was able to scale?

Reverend Mary J: This is an opportunity for the local church and the rural community to really make a difference in the lives of their communities. To become that beacon of hope, again.

Bobby Rettew: The mainline church is struggling right now. They’re trying to be more intentional, where their outreach is, their congregations are shifting. What told you, “We’re not going to do these other things, we are focusing here, this is our mission.” Because you could be doing so much other stuff within community. What made you so intentional about this?

Reverend Mary J: It was led by the Holy Spirit. That’s all I can say, that we-

Bobby Rettew: But sometimes you don’t listen to the Holy Spirit, what made you listen say, “You know what, we got to do this.”

Reverend Mary J: I think the Holy Spirit was speaking through those two people that came to my office door and said, “We got to talk about what we can do for the children.” When I put it out to the congregation one Sunday morning, and in sermons and in all three of our services and people just flooded me after the service and said, “Sign me up, sign me up, sign me.” The Holy Spirit was speaking to those folks that morning, and it was just evident that this is what we needed to do, this is where we needed to go. And then going to Annual Conference, sitting in the back of the Annual Conference room and writing the grant to the Endowment with June Atkinson, the s Head of Public Instruction, there as a keynote speaker that year, just telling the whole Annual Conference, how great, how dire the need is, that we help children in our communities.

Bobby Rettew: Why should other churches consider taking on literacy as an initiative in their communities, especially in North and South Carolina?

Reverend Mary J: It is a win-win-win. We minister to the children in the name of Jesus Christ, we minister to their families, we become a congregation that the community looks to and says, “That church is making a difference in the community. That church is where we want to go.” And we’ve had so many people that have come to this church, to connect with this church, because they would ask people in the community when they retire here, “Where’s a good church to go to?” And people point to Seaside and they say, “That church is involved in missions, that church is making a difference.”

Bobby Rettew: And it’s an amazing connection also with the Duke Endowment, where they see it too. How important has that relationship been to make this possible?
Reverend Mary J: It’s been tremendously important because they helped us to catch the broader vision of the literacy camp. It’s helped us to engage more volunteers. Our capacity has grown and our volunteer outreach, our connection with the community, with civic groups, with other nonprofits in the county. And then to connect with the families on a more meaningful level than just … If we had followed that dream of an after-school program, it would have been a good program and we would have helped some kids. But man, we are really making a difference. We’re connecting with the families, not only the children, but the families. And it’s a lasting connection.

Bobby Rettew: I want to wrap this up because you’re a busy woman. But last couple thoughts that I’ve always been inspired by, is I’ve worked with a lot of different foundations, and the work of the Duke Endowment isn’t really talked about much, it’s an undercurrent. You don’t hear about them much. But the work is amazing work. From your perspective, how would you talk about them? How would you share what their impact has been in this community?

Reverend Mary J: It’s been tremendous. We could not have done the work here at Seaside in this literacy program, if it were not for the Endowment. We are deeply indebted to the endowment both in support, encouragement, training, as well as the financial pace and they’re invested for the long haul. My husband and I were involved in another grant, in another community where we worked with women and children in poverty. And they were with us in that program, too. So, the Duke Endowment has a long-term investment in making rural North Carolina a stronger place and a better place.

Bobby Rettew: Last question. What makes this rural church so special to you?

Reverend Mary J: The combination of people who are seeking to know Jesus Christ, to grow their faith and to engage in ministry in meaningful ways. It is truly an exciting place to be.

Bobby Rettew: And I just want to really commend you for this program. I have to say when I walked in, I was kind of like Dr. Chen, I wasn’t sure what to expect. And then I met the people and we interviewed and we talked and I saw the passion. I heard it from the volunteers I heard it from the teachers, I heard it from you. And then I saw this morning, capturing the imagery of the children and there’s … You just can’t describe it, can you?

Reverend Mary J: It’s magical, it’s of God. It truly is of God. Thank you for helping us to get this word out. So that other places, other churches can find that magic that’s of God.

Bobby Rettew: You’re also my new favorite friend. Mary Jane Wilson-Parsons. Is it pastor or co-pastor? Is that, what’s the-

Reverend Mary J: Co-pastor.

Bobby Rettew: Co-pastor of Seaside church. Thank you so much.

Reverend Mary J: Thank you.

Bobby Rettew: Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touchpoint Media and Network. Podcast dedicated to discussion on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies. CIO, new technology strategies, the challenge of the online physician. A power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to http://touchpoint.health. That is, touchpoint.health. Have a good day.

I have been telling stories as a profession since 1997 for over 20 years. I started as a photojournalist with the task of capturing daily news stories forced to condense into just over one minute…and now I am breaking free.

For years and years, whether as a journalist, brand journalist, content creator, or even a content marketer; I have been finding and telling stories in a compact, expedient fashion for our audiences to quickly consume and move along.
The broadcast television world taught me how to find stories, find the most intriguing themes inside these stories and make them appealing to a broader audience. I would advocate producers and editors for more time, just five more seconds on-air, because it would make the story so much better. The fight was real; constantly pushing, playing the game of give and take in my narcissistic world of storytelling.

My story, my daily news story deserves more than 70 seconds. I thought my story was the most important story of the day. I had a rude awakening!

As I transitioned to the world of corporate storytelling ranging from broadcast to web production, I would push the envelope convincing clients that longer was better. But…OH BUT…those analytics were the hard truth. My projects on finally living on YouTube sometimes pushed 8 minutes, yet the data showed audiences could barely get past two minutes…at best.

Then in 2014 when Facebook opened the door to create video advertisements, we were creating short content, quick snippets with the goals to click. We learned through months and years of video ad creation/deployments that Instagram had it right the first time. People just want it in 14 seconds.

So much work left on the table…so much heart and soul.

We would capture 45 minute interviews and condense these passionate stories down into two or three minute stories. So much rich heart and soul inside these personal stories we captured, it hurt leaving out special moments that provided so much context to a soundbite chosen for the final video.

As I became a podcast listener, I was finding myself attracted to long form storytelling like Criminal, This American Life, Freakanomics, and even podcast series like S-Town. What I was finding is that many of these shows had an average length longer than 20 minutes with This American Life toping 60 minutes.

I am finding more and more people are desiring more long form content; content that provides deeper conversations exploring cultural and social narratives applicable to their daily lives.

For many years, my partner Reed Smith was trying to get me to start a podcast investigating content marketing, specifically a best-practices podcast. He knew this was the world I operated professionally and thought it would be a natural fit as he challenged me to join the Touchpoint Media Network, podcast shows from all points of view including hospitals, health systems, physicians, clinicians and consumers. I looked around and there are SO MANY podcasts surrounding the “how-to’s of content marketing”, I felt I would add to the ever competitive noise.

I have a mantra!

We should spend less time trying to talk/teach about how to create great content and tell great stories and just go out and tell great stories!

As I fumbled around with this idea. I was more and more attracted to creating a podcast that would push the boundaries of digital storytelling. It was time to “spread my wings” and share long conversations around topics, diving into narratives the expose us to people and their approach to topics and genre’s surrounding healthcare, social justice, and public policy. I wanted to share deep intersections inside these topics examining the complexities in today’s multi-cultural world. Give the story behind the two minute story, space to think, feel, explore, and build deep connections. I just wanted to tell the whole story.

This is the audience where I was focused, to create rich content for these consumers:

Podcast Listeners

“The profile of an average podcast listener (according to Nielsen Scarborough) is young, educated and affluent. Consumers who watch, listen to or download a podcast are significantly more likely to be higher educated, higher income and career-minded, making them a qualified—and valuable—audience for advertisers and marketers.” (vai 2016 Data from Scarborough USA)

Persona of Optimal Podcast Listener:

Post Graduate – More Likely Represents 68% of Listeners

Household Income $250,000 – More Likely Represents 45% of Listeners

Professional – More Likely Represents 60% of Listeners

25-34 Age Group – More Likely Represents 28.2% of Listeners

35-44 Age Group – More Likely Represents 21.2% of Listeners

45-54 Age Group – More Likely Represents 16.1% of Listeners

We are learning more and more everyday about podcasting; specifically the individuals and the personas of the people consuming our content. We are also learning the distribution platforms like Soundcloud, Apple Podcasts, PodBeam, Stitcher, and Google Play have inconsistent reporting and data analytics. It is a huge guessing game, which has provided me some relief. For once, I am ignoring the data, analytics, and reporting behind the engagement/distribution of my podcast. I am focused on creating great content for people who choose to listen.

As I continue to talk to more and more people, select stories I want to tell, and ask people to be a guest…I am focusing on our listeners and what they think about our content. If you like the podcast like Intersection and others on the Touchpoint Media Network, maybe your will take our survey.

Thanks to all who are help me chart a new path in content creation and rich, long-form storytelling!

After taking the boys on their first beach trip, I have been thinking about my childhood visiting the beach. Specifically, thinking about the many years as a kid on Hunting Island, having instant access to the beach.

I captured this image a few weeks ago, documenting where our family cabin once stood. This beach, specifically on the right hand side of the image where the road ends, is where our cabin stood. As a kid, the cabin had a short driveway from this road. Then as you walked to the beach, there was a back yard where we fed the deer. As you made your way to the beach, you crossed the old cabin road to a huge set of dunes protecting the cabin.

These dunes and palm trees made the air still around the cabin, making it extremely hot in the summer months since the cabin did not have air conditioning. As you crossed the dunes through a small opening, you walked close the 50 yards to the beach. These are some of my initial memories as a child, dating back to when I was six years old. These memories are close to 38 years old, documenting the extreme movement Hunting Island is experiencing.

One day, this section of Hunting Island will be no more; as this barrier island is in constant movement. This undeniable truth makes me comprehend why the lighthouse was moved multiple times escaping the prevailing tide. One day, I will not be able to show my children the very land that I once walked, for it will be under water. No matter, I still make trips to Beaufort to our new vacation home on Harbor Island. Who knows, I might retire there one day…only if it is still an island.

For anyone who has suffered a serious illness, whether personally or with a child; anyone facing the challenges of autoimmune disease; and any medical professionals who have worked to help them, Allison Greene has walked in these shoes.

I met Allison in 2013 while working on a story for the South Carolina Hospital Association advocating for the South Carolina’s Legislature to consider expanding Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. Her son’s story became a central focus of the story, one of heart, soul, trials and tribulations.

Allison has worked in healthcare communications for more than twenty-five years and currently works for a large healthcare system in the upstate of South Carolina. Allison’s story has so many intersections intertwined with one basic narrative, her son John almost died. Since that moment, she has spent over years fighting and navigating a system that has employed her; not only fighting for John’s life and care, but also fighting a healthcare delivery system entangled with bureaucratic and political dilemmas that a seasoned healthcare communicator can barely unwind.

Since John Got Sick: A Quest for Survival and Faith is the story of a young man’s heroic battle to survive both the initial onslaught and the ongoing assault of a traumatic autoimmune disease and its ensuing consequences (including dialysis, disability, transplant, depression, opioid dependence, and post-traumatic stress disorder). Simultaneously, it is the story of a mother’s love and strength against daunting odds, including donating a kidney.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Meredith Owen: Finding something you want to do and go do it, it doesn’t matter who’s done it before you.

Bobby Rettew: Welcome to Intersection. I’m Bobby Rettew.

Allison Green: My name is Allison Green. I have worked in healthcare for over 25 years. Not in a clinical role per se. Mostly in marketing, public relations, and for a period of seven years, I was also a patient advocate. I have a background in Christian social ministries and also a master’s degree in journalism. I am single mother. I have been divorced for 19 years. My son John is my second child, and he is single and lives in the same town that I do. My daughter is married with children and a career and husband, and she lives about five or six states away. That’s important my saying that because John and I really were alone a lot of the time in this now eight year journey.

Bobby Rettew: For anyone who has suffered a serious illness, whether or personally or with a child, anyone facing the challenges of an autoimmune disease and any medical professionals who have worked to help them, Allison Green has walked in these shoes. I met Allison in 2013 while working on a story for the South Carolina Hospital Association advocating for the South Carolina legislature to consider expanding Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. Her son’s story became the central focus of this video story. One of heart, soul, trials, and tribulations.

Bobby Rettew: Allison has worked in healthcare communications for more than 25 years and currently works for a large healthcare system in the upstate of South Carolina. Allison’s story has so many intersections intertwined with one basic narrative, her son John almost died. Since that moment, she has spent over five years fighting and navigating a system that has employed her. Not only fighting for John’s life and care, but also fighting a healthcare delivery system entangled with bureaucratic and political dilemmas that a seasoned healthcare communication can barely unwind. Answer this question, it all started when? Just complete the sentence and go.

Allison Green: It all started in 2010. The specific day, April 13th, 2010, when my young adult son at age 26 was admitted to the hospital. That is the day that changed our lives.

Bobby Rettew: Describe that day.

Allison Green: John had always been incredibly healthy. I mean nothing but ear infections or sports accidents. He was 26. He finished college. He was working. I’d taken a breath. For a few months, he had been sick, just flu-like, since the fall, like November of 2009. He had not had a physician since he left the pediatricians. He was going just to urgent cares. Just frequent symptoms, flu-like, then joint pain, then fatigue so extreme. He couldn’t get up in the morning. He’d go home at lunch from his job to collapse for a couple hours. I finally learned that he had been coughing up blood. Finally, he bogged every time … We had gotten him into a internal medicine doctor.

Allison Green: She had started doing tests for everything under the sun, including AIDS, and still just didn’t know what was happening. This had been going on seeing her for about six weeks. He had had three visits. He was hurting so bad he had his arm … Couldn’t twist it above his head and that was how he would even try to sleep because the shoulder pain was so extreme. They had him on strong painkillers. Nothing. We had no idea. Finally, he got to a point where he didn’t fight me when I said, “We have got to go to the emergency room.” I got him to the emergency room at 6 A.M. and it was there, and this was a small hospital.

Allison Green: I was working at the time at Baptist Easley. I took him there because I knew they would take us seriously in the way it wouldn’t take forever. It was a doctor there, a hospitalist there, who first diagnosed it as Wegener’s granulomatosis.

Bobby Rettew: What is that?

Allison Green: That is a very rare autoimmune disease that affects maybe 1 in 25,000 people. They have since changed the name. It goes by GPA, granulomatosis with polyangiitis, or something like that, GPA. The tissues start attacking the capillaries and they start hemorrhaging. What was literally happening was that he was bleeding out internally and we have no idea why. After months both at the Greenville Hospital and at Duke, with at Duke the best rheumatologist in the country, she has been doing Wegener’s research for the past now 25 plus years, they had no idea. Idiopathic, which as the doctors there said, “That makes us all look like idiots.” Out of nowhere, just out of nowhere.

Allison Green: From that April 13th day, he never left a hospital for four months. I work in healthcare. It’s a long stay if somebody stays 48 hours. He never left a hospital for four months. Seven weeks in Greenville. The rest of the time at Duke. When he left there, he went for one week to intensive rehab back in Greenville, so really more than four months of intensive hospitalization. Most of that time in ICUs. He was intubated three times finally with a trache and a feeding tube. He was in induced comma several times. That last time for three to four weeks.

Allison Green: He was not responding to any of the treatment that they knew to do, which the standard drug at the time was Cytoxan, which is a type of chemotherapy. They were given a massive doses of that, which is very hard on the body. Has toxic effects. They were giving him massive doses of steroids. Literally one gram a day for a time, and he was continuing to bleed out. Primarily the three times that he literally momentarily was just dying was because his lungs were bleeding out the trache. All they could do was just keep transfusing. I mean just transfusion after transfusion and plasmapheresis, and just hoping that he could hang on until somehow his body stopped attacking him, and he did.

Allison Green: There’s so many miracles in that part of it. For me, a lot of prayer. The best doctors in the world. I think mostly just John’s, my son’s, refusal to die. He had always been a really strong athlete. Always really stubborn. As he wrote about it later, he said, “I wasn’t ready to die. I hadn’t live my life. I didn’t know what my life was about. I still had things to do.”

Bobby Rettew: The first time you and I met was, I went back and found it, was 2013. Our mutual friend who I was working together on a project, Patty Smoke, reached out to you because she heard you had a story. Talk about the beginning of what began our relationship, our visit. What was the purpose of all that and talk about that a little bit.

Allison Green: At that time, our state was trying to pass or some of us were hoping that Medicaid expansion plan would be passed.

Bobby Rettew: Why is that important?

Allison Green: The Medicaid program is very limiting in terms of the amount of money that a person can have. For example, at that point in time, my son was getting social security disability. He got $858 a month. With that at the time, he got Medicare insurance, but that did not pay for his prescription medications or a lot of other co-pays. There was not a Medicare supplement in the State of South Carolina for anyone under age 65. There is just not one. If you happen to be permanently disabled, end-stage renal disease or blind and you’re under age 65 in the State of South Carolina, there is no way for you to get a supplemental Medicare plan.

Allison Green: Like you hear about plan from GE and whatever. That was not possible for John. We applied for Medicaid to try to help get the coverage. At that time, he was on about 30 medications to help get coverage for that. Certainly there was not any kind of income associated with it. He just needed it for the health insurance benefit. He was unable to work at that time. He was living with me. He was turned down for Medicaid because he made too much money.

Bobby Rettew: How did he make too much money because he wasn’t able to … Talk about that connection there.

Allison Green: His disability income was $858 a month.
Bobby Rettew: Because he was able to get disability-

Allison Green: Right.

Bobby Rettew: … it put him out of an income bracket in order to qualify for Medicaid.

Allison Green: I still am confused about some of that because that amount should have been enough, just that amount only. I think it was because his father and I, his father and stepmother lived in another state, that at times we were obviously helping to support him. We submitted any kind of money that we had given him each month or for what reason or whatever. Very minimal. For some reason, they determined that that put him over the limit. I was very willing and my son was too very willing to talk about this because maybe we weren’t the stereotype that some people think about with Medicaid. My son had worked since he was 15. I’ve worked since I was 15.

Allison Green: I’ll be 65 next month. Just the severity of his illness so overnight changed our situation that we needed help. When I realized that that was not going to be possible, I didn’t think that was possible, and that there were so many other people in a similar gap situation, which the Medicaid expansion plan would cover, it would allow for people to have some working income and still be able to qualify for a health insurance. From the other side from working in healthcare for over 25 years, the value to the healthcare industry of having someone covered to some degree, even though Medicaid is not a good payor, it’s certainly better than charity care or bad debt.

Allison Green: For all of those reasons, I was very much a proponent of the Medicaid expansion. Very disappoint when it did not pass.

Bobby Rettew: We came and visited you at your house, and you and John told the story. We ended up putting together a piece that would be used in the legislature to explain “here’s a perfect case study about the nuances of this legislation.” Your story was one that many people didn’t expect. You have a healthcare background, so people will … It’s just commonly assumed that we just understand if we work in healthcare how to navigate this stuff. Two, you represent a part of the population where you had income, he had gone to college, so why isn’t he working?

Bobby Rettew: You had this generalization that many people could in some way connect with that, “Oh my gosh. If that happens to them, that could happen to me.” Would you agree with that in some …

Allison Green: Totally. Totally.

Bobby Rettew: With that, when we did the story and we put it together, this was 2013. This started happening, what, 2009? 2010?

Allison Green: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobby Rettew: What are the biggest things that happened to John over that three to four year period? Like he almost died.

Allison Green: He went from being perfectly healthy, working out regularly, having a steady relationship with a young lady, living completely independently, to over four months time nearly dying three times, having to learn how to swallow, how to feed himself, how to speak, how to sit, how to walk.

Allison Green: … to speak, how to sit, how to walk, how to function again. Then, within a months time after leaving the hospital, having to come and live with me, which he had not done in 10 years. By that time, he had already gotten on Medicare Disability because of the severity of his illness. Nobody expected him to live. I think that’s why he got on it so fast. To immediately going into complete renal failure, which was a secondary consequence of the disease. Then, he spent most of the next four months, so that’s now a total of eight months, in hospitals with having five vascular surgeries trying to get access for adequate dialysis. Numerous infections due to his condition and he was on dialysis for 21 months, which I had never had any experience with dialysis. I thought it was horrific, barbarious. It was just barbaric. It was just horrible. He was grateful because that was how he stayed alive.

Allison Green: That whole time, so now we’re up to about a two year point. He was trying to get approved to be a transplant recipient. At the end of about two years he had been approved. Duke said that transplant had never verified in a situation that was as, I can’t remember the word they used, but anyway, as bad as his had been. He had to go through a lot of testing. He had to wait a long time. He was approved for a cadaveric transplant, which means, obviously, that it comes from a person who is deceased. Then, at the same time, we started looking at living donor transplants, which are a lot safer in many ways. The wait list for him at the time for a cadaveric was estimated five years. He was having difficulty with getting adequate access for dialysis. We started looking at living donors and put out the plea for that.

Allison Green: The way that it ended up, very ironically, was that I was the donor.

Bobby Rettew: What was that like?

Allison Green: Well, I didn’t expect it at all because I was his caregiver and there was, I was the only one working and doing everything and so it didn’t cross my mind. Also, John and his father and my daughter all had the same blood type. They were A. I didn’t consider. It didn’t cross my mind. His father was very willing, but because he had a couple of pre-existing conditions he found out he was not eligible. Also, my daughter who happened to be pregnant with her first child at the time, could not be considered, either. I said well test me. Because I’m type O I’m a universal donor and I ended up being a very good match. I matched on four out of six alleles, which usually a parent will only match on three.

Allison Green: After two years, again in April, this time in April of 2012, John had, I was able to give him a kidney. The months leading up to that it was really, I didn’t think I could do it. I mean, I just did not, I was exhausted, I had no close support, I don’t have any close family and I had no siblings. My parents have been dead for years. I didn’t know how I could do it. I couldn’t continue to watch him, I really believe that if he had had to continue much longer dialysis he would have given up and he would have died. Just really in faith, I went ahead with the transplant and it just all worked out. I have two first cousins who came and stayed with me and John’s father and step-mother took the time to stay with him in Durham. I got some financial aid from the National Kidney Foundation. People at work donated their PTO so I didn’t ever lose income.

Allison Green: All that was very just miraculous and John thought that he would be fine after that and able to work again and that was over six years ago. That still really hasn’t quite happened. But, those were the two really intense years. I’m just so grateful for the living donor program. Just the small things, like the surgery could be scheduled. It was like you’re going to get a call in the middle of the night and you drive four hours and you don’t know if it’s going to work. We knew, I had been put through, I found that I was healthier than I ever thought possible or they wouldn’t have let me do it. The surgery was scheduled, we were both in operating rooms at the same time. They just had to take the kidney from one room to the next. There was no time elapsed. My kidney started functioning for him immediately. Frequently, they say, a person still has to stay on dialysis, so all of that has just been miraculous.

Allison Green: He’s not had any signs of rejection. The complications have been due to the immunosuppressants with increased risk of infection. A lot of other things that just really had to do more with life. I have said that John had the best physical, clinical care in the world. No questions. In terms of social, emotional, mental, financial the resources have just been almost non existent. Just almost non existent. Those things have taxed us both to the point of at different times extreme depression. You know, we still lack a lot in terms of treating the whole person.

Bobby Rettew: When we showed up on your doorstep you had gone through all this. I mean, and here we are, we are the first group of people that want and come to share your story for a public policy conversation. I remember talking with you and you actually had some debate whether you wanted to do this or not. Talk about your reservations. I remember, because at the time obviously you work for a healthcare system and that was a very political conversation in the state of South Carolina at that time. It still is, but you knew you had to tell the story. Why?

Allison Green: You know, that’s interesting because I don’t really remember having that many reservations, but probably it would have … I am a very private person. My son is an extremely private person, so I guess that would have probably been the biggest issue. I think, also, I think my son my have felt maybe he didn’t want to advertise that he needed to be on Medicaid. I guess I was past the point of caring what anybody thought.

Bobby Rettew: But that’s a big thing. Let’s talk about that. Here in South Carolina, there’s a big stigma associated to being on Medicaid. You know it as a healthcare communicator. You know what goes on hospitals. We know what physicians and people think when they hear the word Medicaid come through the doors. Talk about that a little bit.

Allison Green: There is a huge stigma on that, and my son, I think, has been willing to talk to some of his friends who would not have any money problems just to really say if it hadn’t been for Medicare, for example, I wouldn’t be alive. I think that over the years he’s gotten a lot more comfortable in talking about that, too. Yeah, there’s still, I hear it frequently. Anybody that’s on Medicaid is abusing the system, they just don’t want to work, particularly women. They just have another baby so that they can keep getting the Medicaid check. Which again, I mean, John would not have gotten any money from Medicaid.

Allison Green: There’s such a stereotype that, you know, if you’re on Medicaid you’re just no good.

Bobby Rettew: Now a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection. Touchpoint Media. A collection of podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the E patient, and most importantly, the power of story telling.

Bobby Rettew: To learn more, go to Touchpoint.health. That is Touchpoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew: Here you are a mom, a healthcare communicator, someone that has witnessed their child go through all these situations, and you also know the public policy conversation that’s happened at that current time. What type of impact do you think your story made?

Allison Green: I think it make zero impact. I mean, obviously. It was so incredibly frustrating and it still is.

Bobby Rettew: Why do you feel like that?

Allison Green: Very quickly after that video was produced, I mean it was like the whole issue suddenly was just taken off the table and I don’t even remember why, but our state was just, I think it had to do with our Governor at the time. Our state just, no, we’re not having anything to do with that.

Bobby Rettew: Here you are sitting with a situation, you have a son at that time, how old was [crosstalk 00:29:13]
Allison Green: In 2013 he would have been 29.

Bobby Rettew: You’re a single mom trying to figure this out. Where did you go next? What started happening next?

Allison Green: Well, somehow again, rather mysteriously, the day that my second granddaughter was born we were in Tennessee and I got a call from the state Medicaid office saying that John had been approved for Medicaid. To this day I can not tell you why. He did get on Medicaid and he has been on that periodically. It comes up for review and again at times, because he has tried to get at least part time work, he will not get it.

Allison Green: Other than that, you know, we’ve just really struggled. I have downsized until I can not downsize anymore. We just have really struggled.

Bobby Rettew: Then the book.

Allison Green: And so, then writing is a part of my background, and I have almost always kept journals which is a part of my process. A part of the way that I heal, or try to heal. Several years ago I started thinking this has got to be a book. I started writing and I kept encouraging John to write because I thought it would help him process. He also had post traumatic stress disorder from all that he had been through. He was not living with me. He had moved out to a rental house. Occasionally, at different points and time had a roommate. I felt like it would help him if he could write down some of his thoughts. He was not willing. I would take him journals and he would never use them.

Allison Green: I started working on my part, and he knew that I was. Finally, one day he sent me a file and he said, “I’ve been writing this. See what you think?” The most interesting thing to me, for all these years he’s had real problems sleeping. He just can not sleep. He wrote his part, which is probably about a third of the book. He wrote his entire part on his cell phone, at night in his bed when he could not sleep. I read it and I was like, I was just surprised. I never knew he could write. He was always outside with a ball in his hand. He was always smart, but never any interest.

Allison Green: I could tell that it was really good and that he had a really strong voice. I got in a writer’s group again and started working on putting his material in with mine and that was probably two years ago. Then again last Fall, I submitted it to three different publishers and it was accepted for publication. Our book came out this past month. It’s called Since John Got Sick; A Quest For Survival and Faith. It’s a real honest portrayal of everything that happened from each of our perspectives. It makes us both really vulnerable and some people have said it’s really raw. It talks about the healthcare system, and some not always good experiences with hospitals and doctors. It talks about the challenges that we faced, still face today financially.

Bobby Rettew: Let’s talk about that a little bit. One of the reasons why I thought this was interesting to me is here is someone that has a son that went through a traumatic situation, understands the healthcare arena, fought for Medicaid …

Bobby Rettew: [inaudible 00:34:01] fought for Medicaid, has put their…selves in a position of public policy that sometimes is not the most accepted in many of the healthcare spaces in the state that we live in, and now you’re writing a book about it … where hard print words are in front of us. Were you worried about talking in frame of … “I’ve got an employer that pays my bills to keep it going, and oh my gosh, can I write about hospitals?” Talk about that balance that you dealt with.

Allison Green: I’m still worried about that … and I stopped at two different points and decided I cannot go forward with this, this was after it had been accepted by a publisher, because of my fear. I just decided I’m too old for this. I’m not going to afraid of this anymore. So, the book came out. The launch party was almost just last Saturday.

Bobby Rettew: What’s that date?

Allison Green: May the 26th. The book is out. There was also a front page article in the [Greenville 00:35:24] News this past Monday, Memorial Day, with our pictures, and I’ve not gotten really any feedback about it yet. I finally decided … I think I just am not that important. I think I’m just not that important, and people really won’t read it and really won’t notice and really won’t care. And I think that’s probably true, and that makes me sad too.

Bobby Rettew: But why is this story so important to tell?

Allison Green: Because I think that … the fact that it could … A crisis like that could happen to anybody, and there would have been no way to prepare for that. I mean … the cost of healthcare is just astronomical, and there’re just so many nuances and factors in it that … I don’t know. Also, I know that I have the gift to write, and I was given a really good, hard story, and my son had the willingness not only to keep trying on a daily basis to live but to also be willing to share it. I think those are gifts we have and I think, I don’t know, part of my faith journey is by feeling called on to share what, you know, my experience, strength, and any kind of hope I can bring to the situation.

Bobby Rettew: Do you think that the storytelling process is also somewhat maybe therapeutic to the writer?

Allison Green: Totally. I mean, people have … I’ve tried to be as prepared as possible for feedback and some … “friend,” shall we say in quotes, said, “So why did you think she had to do this?” I mean, I was really … and I was prepared for that … when it’s like, yeah, some people are just gonna think that I just have to whine about my pitiful story … you know, our pitiful story … and I don’t think I whine. I don’t think that’s what it’s about, and I got it. It’s my story, and I have the right to tell it. So to that degree, I don’t really care what people think about it. I really, really hope that people would really read it. And I don’t think too many people read books anymore-

Bobby Rettew: I do.

Allison Green: You know, if they can’t get it in two paragraphs on Facebook they may not read it. But I think it just … it has some really important life questions that affect our society and humanity as a whole. And one other piece of … just like … public policy, in a way, that I’m also an advocate for to the degree that I can be … my son is very cognizant … probably more than I realize … that at some point in his life he will need another kidney, even though I know somebody who’s on the same kidney for 33 years … that is not the norm, so my son, at now age 34, knows that within his lifetime he will be back on dialysis or he will have another transplant or one or two or whatever … or if he’s lucky.

Allison Green: And the way that the Medicare program works for end stage Renal Disease … which is a huge gift, whoever passed it back when, you know, so very grateful … but for someone who is diagnosed with end stage Renal Disease, they qualify for Medicare regardless of age, and they can get that Medicare insurance as long as they are on dialysis, which is an expensive treatment, which the federal government pays for. As long as they are on dialysis … and then for 36 months after they receive a kidney. After that, most people go off it. Which again, leaves them … depending on where they live … without adequate health insurance coverage or particularly drug insurance coverage.

Allison Green: And so the number one reason that transplants … that people end up going back on dialysis … is because they cannot afford their medication. My son takes three immunosuppressant drugs right now, which are … they’re not as expensive as some cancer drugs, but they are not cheap. I mean, without insurance it would be very difficult to cover them. People stop taking their medication because they cannot afford it. They end up going back on dialysis. Therefore, they go back on Medicare and Medicare pays way more for dialysis than they would’ve if they had just kept them on consistently and help them buy their medications.

Allison Green: And so the National Kidney Foundation, it’s one of their platforms, that they lobby for … I guess consistently … to keep the Medicare benefit for end stage renal patients to make it a lifelong benefit. So that’s also something that I hope very much to have a say … you know, impact on.

Bobby Rettew: What would you say to other people out there that are timid to tell their story? That may not be in the direct situation that you’re in, but are fighting just like you have and/or will. Many people are scared to tell it because they’re scared of the repercussions of being open and honest and … that’s a hard thing to figure out.

Allison Green: It is.

Bobby Rettew: What are your thoughts on that path and that journey?

Allison Green: Well, I pray a lot. I know that’s the only reason I am still sitting here, and it takes time. It just takes time to process and figure out and determine what is the right way, the right thing to do. I was not worried about writing the book … well, I was, but I was willing to go forward for myself with writing the book. I was still very protective of how it would affect John, and I said to him over and over, “Are you sure you want to do this?” His name is in the title. His photo is on the cover of the book. “Are you sure you want to do this?” And he was fine all along with it. And again, very contrary to the private nature that he is.

Allison Green: And I think just a good example, though … I think we’ve both been through so much that we do want it to be of some benefit to anybody else if it can possibly can, and so we have a page for the book … so it’s johngotsick.com. And about a week ago, a lady posted on there and she had seen the article in the Anderson Independent … and she had Wegener’s and was struggling with it. She was diagnosed in 2017. And she really poured out her story there, and John responded to her. And since then, they’ve taken that offline … but, you know, he was … I think when you can help somebody else after what you’ve been through, I think … I don’t know if there’s anything any more rewarding than that.

Bobby Rettew: Has this changed your viewpoint of healthcare? I mean, you work under the umbrella of it. You probably [inaudible 00:44:00] a little bit of a balance here, but … it’s a tough place to be in.

Allison Green: It’s a tough place to be in. I had worked for seven years as a patient advocate right up until the time that John got sick. I had transferred back to marketing two months before that April 13th day. And I am so grateful for that level of clinical experience because I was used to being in the trenches, so to speak … and so I wasn’t scared of the hospital setting or intimidated by clinical professionals, and I know that that helped me to keep fighting to get him what he needed, and I was not going to accept any less. Now in my job, where … besides being the oldest person in my department, I’m really grateful for that previous in a clinical environment experience and also everything that I have gone through with John because it just helps me keep it real, to know why are we trying to get messages out about healthcare.

Allison Green: It’s so much more to me than just the venues or the tactics of communicating healthcare because I really, deeply know the why, and the value in it.

Bobby Rettew: You talked earlier about how you received world class care. And if you’ve received it, it’s a lot easier to market when you can look inside your organization and see that same care.

Allison Green: Exactly, and I will say that I do a lot of marketing for our cancer institute. And I cannot say enough wonderful things about it. And I see the difference in the illness, the diagnoses because what has happened with cancer over the past decades or whatever … there has been so much awareness, research, public support … that for somebody, a patient with cancer … there are so many resources available in so many ways. I mean, at our cancer institute there are all kind of holistic aspects, yoga, acupuncture, whatever support. So much support that is so beneficial to the healing process.

Allison Green: When someone has a rare autoimmune disease, it’s isolating. That’s why I appreciate that lady reaching out on Facebook. They’re just not in the same healing environment, so I can’t single-handedly make that different, but I can affirm that there’s some parts of healthcare … and from my experience I would say particularly the cancer area … where there’s just so much positve healing going on. And I think it has to do with awareness.

Bobby Rettew: Regardless of the technology, regardless of where we are … telling stories is still very basic.

Allison Green: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: What is your formula for telling a good story?

Allison Green: For me, I have to be honest. It’s just tell the truth as experienced it. Don’t try to soft-peddle it as … somebody made the comment that neither John nor I soft-peddled anything about our experiences. And just try to make it real.

Bobby Rettew: Allison Greene, thank you.

Allison Green: Thank you.

Bobby Rettew: Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touchpoint Media and Network. Podcast dedicated to discussion on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies. CIO, new technology strategies, the challenge of the online physician. A power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health. That is, touchpoint.healh. Have a good day.

I have been researching podcasts across the data and insights arena for the last few months as I have really become intentional about content creation. Some of the questions I have are similar to the ones many across the podcasting spectrum have mentioned, and also the advertising industry as a whole is grappling with collectively.

5) What is the magic advertiser portfolio?
– who is our audience
– what category(s) & genre(s) do our shows fall under

I think the first two points above have lots of information online yet real hard data to support. There is just a lot of talking heads and people creating content to talk about podcasting just to draw an audience with nothing more than baseline how-to’s. I think it is important to set your own goals for especially the first point above.

I have been really diving into the third point, what is the magic length. I have been reading groups like Nielsen Insights and Westwood One. Here is some interesting data from Westwood One below, insights they are citing from audioBoom in 2015 (*1).

This is starting to match-up with some of my favorite podcast experiences. I am more willing to listen to a longer (30-60 minutes) podcast from This American Life, Freakonomics, and/or Axe Files when on the road during a long commute or trip. I am also willing to listen to a shorter podcast (15-30 minutes) like Criminal on shorter drives, working out, or cutting the grass. BTW…all of these I will advance the podcast forward using the 15 second advance when an advertisement plays that sounds different from the voice of the person hosting the episode.

Here is some more interesting data, especially for you social media content marketers and community managers. This is also from Westwood One and Edison Research from 2014-2015.

Bottomline, people’s listening time closely matches time when content marketers share content on social media. Which we can derive that is the best time to schedule and promote our podcast episodes.

Podcast Listeners (2016 Data from Scarborough USA *2)“The profile of an average podcast listener (according to Nielsen Scarborough) is young, educated and affluent. Consumers who watch, listen to or download a podcast are significantly more likely to be higher educated, higher income and career-minded, making them a qualified—and valuable—audience for advertisers and marketers.”

In the last episode we portable hard drives; in this episode we are reviewing mobile editing software. We will review different editing applications for the iPhone and iOS devices including Apple iMovie, Adobe Premiere Clip, and even how to use the prepackaged Photos app to edit video. We will also discuss simple workflows for the experienced videographer and for the content creator in your healthcare marketing and communications department.

Reed: And we are cohosts on a show called Touchpoint, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals, but health systems and physician practices.

Chris: In every episode, we’ll dive deep into a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the healthcare industry today.

Reed: And while you listen to this show, we would certainly love you to check out.

Chris: All you have to do a swing on over to touchpoint.health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touchpoint media network.

Reed Smith:And welcome to the next episode of Gear in Review, I am your co-host Reed Smith joined as always by the expert, Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew:What’s going on?

Reed Smith:And this week, we’ve talked about actual physical hardware up to this point, haven’t we? At least for the most part, bags and some cameras and stuff like that, so we’re gonna change gears just a little bit today and talk about editing specifically and even more specifically editing on your iOS device or mobile device when it comes to video.

Bobby Rettew:Yeah, there’s a lot of stuff, a lot of things to do and I think the biggest reason why, this is a good one to talk about, is healthcare marketers, especially the people that are doing all the content creation and deployments out of the hospital, they’re always asking about what do they use to edit content and get it up on social real quick. So this might be kind of fun.

Reed Smith:So there’s a couple different things here and we’ll probably get into or not probably, we will get into maybe for lack of a better word, desktop editing or something like that or more full production editing or I don’t know, however you want to frame that I guess, in a future episode. And so really what we’re talking about here and what we’re going to cover are ways that once you’ve captured content on your phone, that you can do some basic editing and then publish if you will, right?

You know, our phones are pretty good devices to capture the content. Once you capture the content, short of just clipping or kind of editing the start and the end in your camera roll or something like that. What are kind of some other common editing type features or things that we may be looking to do in a mobile environment?

Bobby Rettew:You know just to kind of set the stage real quick, we’re kind of in this weird transition where people can’t decide if they want to record video by holding their phone vertically or horizontally and you have to kind of decide which way you want to go. What do you wanna really achieve, right? A lot of people don’t think through that much but you kinda have to decide on the front side, because that depends on how you can edit or share it down the line.

Reed Smith:And along those lines too is we’ve always preached, no vertical video.

Bobby Rettew:Right.

Reed Smith:Right? Because the ultimate destination was typically YouTube.

Bobby Rettew:Right.

Reed Smith:We’re seeing sort of a video player Vimeo or what have you, ’cause you’re embedding it in a website or whatever and then too that worked for Facebook as well, and I think with the additional video that we’re seeing in Instagram and some of those types of platforms, vertical video or more of that portrait style works to some degree.

Bobby Rettew:Yeah.

Reed Smith:Right?

Bobby Rettew:It does work and you know as a video production person that encourages or trains hospital marketers to use or shoot in horizontal for our own personal gains, because we can usually take that content on a phone and then go put it in a larger video production project, right?

And so we don’t want vertical video. We want horizontal. We want something that matches everything else that we have shot with our big cameras and a lot of that’s changing with how the platforms are changing.

But regardless, you have to decide kind of how you wanna go. But there is software out there that allows you to edit and do some things to post. On the first go, regardless if you record vertical or horizontal, especially on a iOS device, you can open any video and trim. Trim heads and tails with a little trim option just by clicking edit. And that’s a really good little deal because it allows you just to record something, trim it down and you can save it as a new video or just resave the current and chop off the other stuff.

So that’s a quick and dirty way of just really chopping heads and tails inside of the photos app.

Reed Smith:Past that, what are some other common needs or edits that somebody might want to make?

Bobby Rettew:There’s a couple of things that people typically might wanna do. They might want to add graphics or a title, right? Or put a lower third in if you record an interview of a physician and you want to post it. People want to put names or something from a titling standpoint, so graphics.

Second, sometimes they want to edit one clip into multiple clips. So for instance, let’s go back to if you’re at a press event and you use your phone to capture video of a bunch of different things happening like a ribbon cutting or someone shaking hands or The Children’s Hospital mascot hugging people, you know. You want to edit those pieces together, then just simply heads and tails doesn’t do it so you need to be able to splice clips together and possibly put transitions, whether it’s a hard cut or a little fade or a little just wipe and then allow it to put some titles in there as well.

That’s what we’re starting to see is more people want those options and so there are some options out there to use. There’s two pieces of software that I use all the time on my iOS device, my iPhone, I use an iPhone X, but it works across all the different iPhones. iMovie is really good and then Adobe Clip. The difference between the two is that iMovie doesn’t allow you to up the exposure. So if you shoot something dark and you want to make it brighter so you can see someone in the dark in your video, iMovie doesn’t allow you to basically make it brighter so to speak, but Adobe Clip allows you to do that.

Reed Smith:Oh interesting, okay.

Bobby Rettew:Yeah, yeah and we deal with that all the time. You know, you’re trying … We get a photo and we know how to change the exposure. You know, but on video, there’s only … Adobe Clip is the only one that allows you to do that to make it brighter so you can see.

Both of them allow you to splice. So you can take one clip and cut it and then tighten it up by trimming heads and tails on a clip and then putting a dissolve or a fade in between clips, so that you can splice a bunch of little pieces together to make a little video of shots.

Both of them have titling tools which are really good. Very pleased with those. Both of them allow you to do slow motion. So you can slow down a shot to make it so something might stand out or you just want to do slow motion for fun.

I am a big fan honestly of iMovie. They’ve done a really good job. They have some built in graphics that allow you to do quick lower thirds for an interview that are easy to make changes to the titles. It also both … iMovie allows you to do something that’s a little bit different that steps it into the game of video editing in a real post production world where you can take the audio and separate it from the video and then actually put other pieces of video on top of someone talking.

So if you’re tired of looking at that talking head, you can take that video piece off and add another piece of video over that. So you can hear the voice underneath but see pictures. Does that make sense?

Reed Smith:Yeah absolutely and so in both of these, can you also import still photography?

Bobby Rettew:Yes you can.

Reed Smith:Okay. So you’ve got the video pieces, you’ve got the still photography, they allow for transitions, some titling, lower thirds, kind of your graphics, your bumper the beginning and the end, that kind of thing. So the biggest difference between the two sounds like then on the Adobe side, there’s a little bit of an additional I guess editing capability around exposure and some of that kind of stuff.

Bobby Rettew:Yep, that’s correct. iMovie is absolutely following down Apple’s path of providing stock pieces to you as well. So they’re gonna give you some stock music to put underneath some video. They’re gonna give you some stock options for graphics.

So it kind of gives you some flexibility. Then also they give you a lot more flexibility with titling and graphics for the lower thirds. I like that because it allows you to kind of play around with it. Instead of putting that … If you want to put a title and then all of a sudden you want to make it drop down into a lower third to name something, you can do it really quickly with one touch of a button.

Reed Smith:Gotcha. What about from a publishing standpoint?

Bobby Rettew:Publishing, both of them do a really good job of publishing. I typically will just export my final product back into the photos area of my phone and then I’ll upload it to whatever social outlet or digital outlet I want to go.

I like to do it namely ’cause one is I like to be able to take that video content and maybe pull it off of my phone eventually and then just put it up on YouTube because my iOS device will shoot 4K, but you can also set up to where you can push directly into those social outlets if you want too.

Reed Smith:Gotcha. And also price. What are these things cost us?

Bobby Rettew:So the iMovie, if I, let me go … I think it’s like a five to six dollar app, I think. That’s a good question. I apologize I don’t know the answer to that one. I know I had to purchase it as a standalone app.

Whereas the Adobe Clip, they want you to be a subscriber to the Creative Cloud. So they want you to sign up for that Creative Cloud license.

Reed Smith:So can you use it outside of Creative Cloud or it’s only available to subscribers inside of Creative Cloud? Does that make sense?

Bobby Rettew:Yes so, so far, I’ve only been able to get into it through Creative Cloud log-in, so I use the Creative Cloud log-in to access the features of Adobe Clip.

Reed Smith:So it looks like iMovie is free and it seems like I remember them opening that up here in recent-

Bobby Rettew:Yeah, I wish I could get my money back, ’cause I think I paid for it a long time ago.

Reed Smith:I did too. It used to be like four, five, six dollars, something like that. It wasn’t insignificant. I mean, in the greater scheme of things, it’s not that big of a deal. But I think it’s something they now include in the new iOS so everybody should have that if they’ve got the newest iOS, or it’s a free download obviously, but it’s a good app nonetheless.

Bobby Rettew:Yes and a lot of the software that comes with a lot of the gadgets we play with, like for instance, DJI with their drones and their handheld gimbals, they come with very basic editing software built into those apps, so that you can put … Trim heads and tails and you can do a little bit of basic editing.

Typically, I will take out of those apps and just save that video content into my iMovie, I mean, my photos app and then put it into or upload into iMovie or Adobe Clip to edit. So what that tells me is that our iPhone has become a very robust piece where we can use our phone to capture drone footage or stabilizer or take pictures and then we can take all that content into iMovie or Adobe Clip and create pretty good video content to share rather quickly instead of having to go back and dump it on the computer, give it the video production guide type of thing.

Reed Smith:Nice, nice. Well what else do we need to know?

Bobby Rettew:One thing that’s changing down the pipe is that vertical video is absolutely starting to explode and Instagram is getting ready … Is capitalizing on that right now with their new IGTV and so we’re seeing more and more people doing more vertical video ’cause it feels more natural and yet, neither Adobe Clip or iMovie can natively edit those two formats where it’s vertical.

iMovie will allow you to rotate the video into a vertical format but it still puts … It puts black spaces on either side and spits it out horizontal. So right now, there’s no real robust software on our iPhones to truly do some editing in vertical video.

So we’re seeing right now where IGTV, people are just uploading square or horizontal video or brands have preproduced that in the Adobe Premier Software on their laptops in vertical and then reuploaded it in.

Reed Smith:Very cool. Well we’ll get more into that in desktop editing or advanced editing probably in another episode. But just to recap, we got the iMovie which is the Apple based app and then Adobe Premier Clip, both for the iOS. So both great, great options. A lot of this comes down obviously to personal preference and what you’d rather use and maybe other integration points that you’ve got.

But that’s a good one for today, so for Bobby Rettew, I’m Reed Smith and we’ll see you next time.

Bobby Rettew:Y’all have a good one.

Reed Smith:This show is made possible in part by the Social Health Institute. Through research and partnerships with healthcare organizations around the country, the Social Health Institute explores new and innovative ways for hospitals, healthcare organizations, to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy.

To learn more about the Social Health Institute, visit them online at socialhealthinstitute.com. That’s socialhealthinstitute.com.

This has been a Touch Point Media Production. To learn more about this show and others like, please visit us online at touchpoint.health.

We identified numerous narratives showcasing visual stories that would inspire individuals to take the next steps to change the world. During the creative process, we knew telling a story of a bioengineering researcher helping a young boy with a lower limb prosthetic find comfort while walking and running would be a compelling story.

What we found was something far more interesting and compelling. I met researcher and PhD candidate Meredith Owen, who we cast for this story. Her work is amazing, but what was more amazing is her passion to help people, lower limb amputees, real people in dire need of comfort.

In a 2016 study by a MIT sociologist, 20 percent of undergraduate engineering degrees are awarded to women, but only 13 percent of the engineering workforce is female. Meredith Owen is changing the face of the profession providing a rich intersection inside the story we crafted for Clemson. We purposefully chose a smart female bioengineering researcher so other high school teenage girls could see themselves as future engineers.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Meredith Owen: Finding something you want to do and go do it, it doesn’t matter who’s done it before you.

Bobby Rettew: Welcome to Intersection. I’m Bobby Rettew. In 2017, Dr. Anand Gramopadhye, Dean of the College of Engineering, Computing and Applied Sciences asked Gray Digital Group storytelling team to craft a series of stories, inspiring the next generation of engineers to attend Clemson University. We identified numerous narratives showcasing visual stories that would inspire individuals to take the next steps to change the world.

Bobby Rettew: During the creative process, we knew telling a story of a bio engineering researcher helping a young boy with a lower limb prosthetic find comfort while walking and running would be a compelling story. What we found with something far more interesting and compelling. I met researcher and PhD candidate Meredith Owen, who we cast for this story.

Bobby Rettew: Her work is amazing. But what is more amazing is her passion to help people, lower limb amputees, real people in dire need of comfort. A 2016 study by an MIT sociologists, 20% of undergraduate engineering degrees are awarded to women, but only 13% of the engineering workforce is female. Meredith Owen is changing the face of the profession, providing a rich intersection inside the story re-crafted for Clemson. We purposely chose a smart female bio engineering researcher so other high school teenage girls could see themselves as future engineers. So, introduce yourself. Who are you?

Meredith Owen: I’m Meredith Owen, I’m a second year just finishing up my second year in graduate school at Clemson University. I’m in the bio engineering department there. I like the outdoors, long walks on the beach, if we’re going to get cliché, reading, running anything else?

Bobby Rettew: Oh, no.

Meredith Owen: Yeah, I know for me.

Bobby Rettew: So, you and I started working together. The first time that I’ve found you, was I was doing research for a series of videos to promote engineering at Clemson University.
Meredith Owen: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: I’m trying to remember how we found you. I think it was one of my former students in the MBA program said, “You need to go talk to Meredith.

Meredith Owen: I don’t know. I know that I got an email from my advisor saying, “Hey, we’re having this meeting about prosthetics. They’re interested in doing videos.” I don’t even know if that had been said at that point. But that’s the research area that I work in. So, he asked me to sit in on the meeting, and that was the first meeting we had. At that point, I thought you guys were looking to do a single day film in the lab and like, “Hey, here’s let’s set up a mock experiment and run that.” So, that’s what I think I thought it was at that point.
Meredith Owen: That is not what it was. Not in a bad way. But that’s in a better way.

Bobby Rettew: It was in a better way.

Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: So, let’s talk about bio engineering.

Meredith Owen: Yes.

Bobby Rettew: So, what is bio engineering?

Meredith Owen: To me, people will give you different definitions. but to me, the way I like to summarize it, is it’s a combination of several different disciplines that arose as a need arose. As healthcare has become, I guess, increasingly utilized and the advancements in healthcare have been … People are living longer, I guess, bioengineering is that perfect mesh of, we take mechanical, we take electrical, we take the sciences, biology and chemistry and you mash them all together to solve these healthcare issues.

Meredith Owen: Whether that’s using mechanical engineering skills and techniques to solve problems with joint mechanics, or whether that’s taking different aspects of chemistry and biology and material science and bio-materials and meshing that all together to solve different issues with the soft tissues or even such things as people who have heart defects or long defects.

Meredith Owen: But when you break it down, we’re using the base engineering knowledge to solve those problems. To me, that’s how I like to summarize it. It’s an intersection of a bunch of different fields.

Bobby Rettew: Obviously, bioengineering is a very large, complex field inside engineering, because there’s so many aspects. What is your niche? What do you work on?

Meredith Owen: I like mechanics. I like large stuff. I like things that I can touch and feel. I work specifically in biomechanics injuries. I broke a lot of bones as a kid. I played a lot of sports. I think if you talk to anybody who does the mechanics side of bioengineering, they’ll probably tell you one of those two things if not both. So, that led me into wanting to know more about how the body worked in that sense. So, how it moves as a machine and how the joints work, and then from there, I continued to refine what I was interested in, and what eventually led me to lower limb prosthetic technologies and the biomechanics behind lower limb prosthetics.

Bobby Rettew: Let’s talk about lower limb, what does that mean? For the average person that doesn’t know or understand what you’re talking about, describe that.

Meredith Owen: Lower limb, your legs. Upper limb would be your arms. So, I focus mainly on the lower body, your lower limbs. If you’re talking about an amputee population there too. Main groups that you typically hear about, there’s several others, but the two main groups would be a transtibial, which would be any amputation below the knee, and in the middle of the leg, and then a transfemoral, which should be any amputation above the knee between the knee and the hip. There are several others depending on if you’re in a joint, or outside of the joint. But the main ones we look at our the transtibial and transfemoral.

Meredith Owen: My research focus is on pressure mitigation and lower limb prosthetics. Our lower limb prosthetic is composed of three main parts, which would be a prosthetic socket. The connection between the residual limb and the device, the full prosthetic device is the socket. That’s really a very custom design. It’s really an art form if you talk to a lot of prostheses, which are the people that fit these devices on an amputee. It’s very much an art form for them, as well as a science. So, it’s a really cool mix of the both.

Meredith Owen: A pylon which connects the socket and that simulates how long your limb would be. And then a foot. So, what to walk on. So, we really look at the socket part of the prosthesis, and how to better design it so that we can mitigate some pressure that patients may feel in their residual limb. If you walk on it for eight hours a day, minimum or maximum, it’s putting a lot of pressure, or stress, or even discomfort on these residual limbs that’s not typical.

Meredith Owen: We have feet, and our feet are specifically designed to walk on and you touch your heel, it’s hard. It’s a callus spot. But when you move up and if you’re looking at an amputee, it’s a lot of soft tissue. That soft tissue is not necessarily meant to be loaded in the way that it’s loaded for a prosthetic device. So, we’re looking at taking the internal surface of the socket and looking at how we can redesign it, or incorporate different technologies to improve the comfort mainly, for the patient, for the amputee.

Bobby Rettew: This is one area when we started working together, that obviously, I was very ignorant. I didn’t have a lot of knowledge about. It was very much an exploration for me. And second is, I never thought about that connection point between the body and the prosthetic, the socket. Where it goes … And I’m going to describe what you’re talking about, it’s the socket is literally like a socket. You put your lower part of your leg into something and it sits like you describe.

Bobby Rettew: I never thought that when someone is an amputee, each amputee is different. It comes in different places and in different forms, and the bone that’s there has to rest on something. I imagine that is very, very uncomfortable for people to manage that, when that was never meant to bear the load if you think of it in those terms.

Meredith Owen: Most definitely. It’s hard to speak on how a population feels because I don’t wear a prosthesis, I’m not and amputee. But in the anecdotal evidence, when we talk to these patients, or when we talk to these amputees, that’s one of the things you see commonly. You see it in clinical reports too of different injuries that are caused by the loading scenarios that are atypical of standard human walking, or standard walking.

Meredith Owen: Yeah, it’s one of those things where for us, for me specifically, I can’t feel what this population is feeling. So, there’s always the need to reach out to talk and to find members of the population that can actually provide useful information for us, so that we can design something better. So it’s not just us in a lab trying to figure stuff out.

Meredith Owen: I think a lot of bioengineering is that way, and you see it across the whole field, is it’s not just us sitting in labs doing work, it’s people going out and talking to doctors, people going out and talking to patients, people going out and talking to clinicians, and getting that anecdotal feedback, and that personal feedback, and then taking that back into the lab and using that information to inform design. So, for us, it’s extremely important because there’s no way for me to feel what a member of that population would be feeling in our designs.

Bobby Rettew: My graduate study was audience analysis, and really diving into understanding audience. The part of audience analysis in the design world is UX, user centered design. How can you create something that fits the user in the space that they can interact with it in a way that doesn’t seem like the technology gets in the way?

Bobby Rettew: When I think about you UCX, especially with all the work that I do in photography and cameras, form factor is huge for us. So, when you think about purchasing cameras in my world, form factor, the way that you hold the camera is very personal. I pick cameras based on how they feel in my hand, how comfortable they are. When I buy a new camera, I accept the fact that even though I selected a good form factor, that I’m going to probably have a little bit of carpal tunnel for a while, because my hand is getting used to it. I squeeze and hold and do things for a while.
Bobby Rettew: So, you know the engineers have spent years thinking about how that works. That’s just for something that we purchased on a consumer level. So, would you say that now there’s very much this intentionality of user centered design when it comes to something that you have to live with?
Meredith Owen: Most definitely.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about that experience of, maybe there’s a shift in the way that prosthetics have been built over the years. Maybe, let’s talk about the background of that a little bit.
Meredith Owen: Again, not being a prosthetist and only have been involved in this field for a few years now, I’m still consider myself a newbie, but from what I’ve seen and what I’ve heard, and what I’ve read, there has been a pretty big shift. This goes across medicine from this one size fits all, or a size based design, to how can we really get accustomed to the patient? And how can we really get accustomed to the user in an attempt to-

Meredith Owen: To the user in an attempt to improve things such as outcome measures, or user comfort, or even just user experience, whether that’s comfort, discomfort, pain, the process of receiving a device, anything like that. While prosthetics is kind of an niche area, because it’s always had to be custom, you can’t take a circle and fit it in a square peg kind of deal, if your socket doesn’t fit the limb and it doesn’t mate well, there’s not going to be good connection. It’s not going to work. So there always has been this element of customization to prosthetics and orthotics, and to the design of a prosthesis, but I think over the years and especially now, people are looking to take advantage of some of the technologies that exist to better customize. So 3D printing, 3D scanning, just different methods, computer, CAD design, different methods to really get at how can we make this shape match better, what can we do to better design a prosthetic socket, to improve patient comfort.

Meredith Owen: There are even people looking to eliminate the socket altogether, so let’s just load through the bone, and it’s a process called osseointegration and basically it is what it is. You integrate the prosthesis into the bone and you eliminate the socket altogether. So that’s still very new. There are clinical studies, there are people out there with these osseointegrated sockets now, but the majority of the patients and the majority of the population of prosthetic users still use the standard socket based device. But yeah, I think we see a lot of that in all areas of health care and just kind of being immersed in bio engineering, and seeing those around me, working in all different fields, it’s no longer acceptable to just have, here’s your large, I don’t know, knee implant. You’re close enough to it, we’ll use that.

Meredith Owen: I mean, there’s really been scale down to … while they’re still kind of size based, you’re getting this increased scale and just increased technology in order to … I mean, you got access to CT scans and MRIs, and you can really break down the anatomy, and custom design something for someone like you couldn’t 50 years ago, or 60 years ago.

Bobby Rettew: I was fascinated that you really work on a piece that goes inside the socket to spread the load throughout the socket, so that it evenly distributes the pressure from the person’s lower limb into that socket, so they don’t have … so they’re not uncomfortable. You don’t want one side of your leg to hurt because it’s bearing all the load. Talk about that piece that you build, you work in, to really … is it a comfort measure or is it … what are you doing there?

Meredith Owen: Yeah, so what we look to do, our design needs specific what we have termed kind of inlays or inserts that are an addition to the socket, so they don’t actually change anything about how the current prosthesis is designed or put together. It really just kind of adds a component to it, in an attempt to, like you said, better distribute the forces that a residual limb would feel. So some of the common problems that patients will have are these bony prominence areas. So if you’re feeling your shin, it’s pretty … I mean, the bone’s right there, there’s not a lot of skin or tissue separating it from anything. So if you’ve got a hard plastic or a hard carbon fiber socket up against that, and there’s no offloading or things of that nature, then you may get kind of these pressure points, and that happens at several different locations in the socket.

Meredith Owen: Prosthetists do take these locations into account and they design the socket around those. So using different methods to change the shape of the socket, so that you’re offloading for these points. So we’re just trying to add another step to that. So kind of increment that change one step further so that we’ve got a hard socket, we can put something soft in it that’s really specific and really custom to the residual limb anatomy of a patient. Then that way, we can further distribute this weight and increase the comfort for wearing the socket.

Bobby Rettew: It’s almost like, I’m going to over simplify this, it’s almost like having a special thing to put in your shoe-
Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: -for when I run, if my … you know, my arch has been killing me. You know, and I kind of looked at it and I thought about it like, man, if I had this lower limb issue and I had a prosthetic, and it was just so uncomfortable, it was hard to get into, I wouldn’t want to leave my house.

Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: It could be debilitating, you know?

Meredith Owen: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobby Rettew: So what fascinates me about that is people have decided to choose this line of work. So how did you get here? Bring us to the back story. You were playing golf at Mercer University. How did you get to Clemson, to work on lower limb sockets? Let’s talk about that a little bit.

Meredith Owen: Yeah, so it’s not as convoluted as I guess one path may be. I was at Mercer, I majored in bio medical engineering there. They’re very similar, just terminologies, one word means the other, basically. I was looking for something to do over the summer, kind of expand my knowledge, get some experience, just try something new. So the summer after my junior year I joined a summer program through Mercer University where we were able to go to Vietnam and work in clinics there, with the lower limb amputee population, so fitting sockets and there was a medical clinic involved.

Meredith Owen: So it was basically a month long, month and a half long program where I learned a lot of the basics of hey, this is what a prosthetic device is, this is what a prosthesis is, this is how you may design one for someone. Again, it was a crash course and I’m by no means at all qualified to fit someone for a prosthesis. That’s an awesome program and something I would love to learn more about. But I did get this kind of more in depth, more close look at what are the issues, and what even is a prosthesis, ’cause I think like a lot of people, I didn’t know anyone that was an amputee, or if I did, they were not a close relative. So you don’t know what you don’t know.

Meredith Owen: in that experience and through that month long trip I really kind of … I guess it spurred my interest in this specific design problem, which is really what it is, at the basis is a design problem. That’s like what all of engineering is, is kind of a design problem. It’s a process of figuring out the solution to something. So from that … I came back to Mercer, finished out my senior year and started thinking well, what do I want to do. I’m going to graduate, I have to do something and didn’t think I wanted to go work. So I started looking at other opportunities and graduate school kind of jumped on my radar. One of the things that I thought was I really enjoyed this experience in Vietnam, I really enjoyed working with this specific problem, I love bio mechanics, I think that’s what I’d like to do, where can I go do that.

Meredith Owen: So that’s kind of how I got hooked up with my advisor at Clemson, Dr. John DesJardins, and he kind of pitched this project idea and it really was a perfect match of my interests and my abilities. I’m not going to say I’ve always wanted to go to Clemson, but I definitely have … my parents are both Clemson alumni, and so it was kind of a perfect fit of, hey, I get to go be a Tiger and I get to work on stuff that really interests me and stuff that I’m really kind of passionate about.

Bobby Rettew: Now a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection, Touchpoint Media, a collection of podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things health care, including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient, and most importantly, the power of story telling. To learn more, go to Touchpoint.health, that is Touchpoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew: When I talked to the licensing board who used to be my client, NCEES, whatever the national of licensing group, they’re in Clemson, basically a cross of discipline, they are trying to find ways to attract young girls into engineering. Do you think that your story has an opportunity to engage young girls and other women to say I want to do that? And I can do that, and I’m just as smart, and I can knock it out of the park too?

Meredith Owen: Yeah. I mean, I would hope so. I think it’s always good for … people feel like they can do, I guess, I would hope anybody would feel like they could do whatever they could do and they were in a situation to think that, but I know that’s not always the case. So I mean, if it could reach one person, one girl that thought hey, maybe this isn’t a field for me but this is what I like to do, and you see that video or you see a video like it and think, oh, well that person’s doing it, I can do it. That would be awesome, it’d be great. I think as engineers, and as a female engineer I not only have a responsibility towards what I’m doing now or the research I’m doing now, but I’d also like to think that I have a responsibility towards engaging those kids or those high school students that think, hey, maybe that’s not for me. But they have this interest and they think they want to do it, but they just think they can’t. For whatever reason, I would like if something like this, it’s just short three minute video, but if a three minute video is all it takes to get someone interested in it, and spur their interest and make them think they can do it, then I think it’s worth it. It’s done what it’s supposed to do.

Bobby Rettew: So what stories have inspired you to do this? Now you talked about you went to Vietnam, was there a story that happened there, did you meet someone, or was it the engineering that inspired you? Or is there other stories out there that have inspired you to get where you are, that are the driving force?

Meredith Owen: Yeah, I unfortunately don’t think I have one of those Hollywood instances where I saw something. It was like, that’s what I want to do, or that’s the moment that inspired me. I do think it’s a lot of little things, and meeting a lot of different people, and knowing a lot of people personally that have always believed that I could do what I wanted to do. So I’ve been very lucky in that instance that I say I want to go be an engineer, you know, those people around me, that support system that I have, have always been like, yeah, go do it, you can. Or if I had said I want to go paint in Europe. Even though I got kicked out of the art club, they would have been like, yeah, you can go do it.

Meredith Owen: So I’ve just been lucky, personally, to have a support system that’s helped me realize that I can do whatever I want to do, and then that in combination with these different activities that I’ve had access to, or these different experiences that I’ve had access to that have really inspired me to keep going. Some days when it’s tough at school and I’m like, why am I doing what I’m doing, or why I’m in grad school, you know, why don’t I do something else, I’ll think back to some of the days in Vietnam that were so hard, and so hot, it’s 105 degrees and we were out there for 13 hours a day or whatever we were doing, I’ll think back to that and think yeah, that was tough, but I look back on that with such positive memories that it makes me think, this is important, what I’m doing is important.

Meredith Owen: As you meet people, there’s a reason why I’m … and I think that’s the biggest thing that’s inspired me to go to engineering, and specifically bio engineering, is I can see the immediate impact of what we’re doing and I think that’s across the field. We have people working on …

Meredith Owen: … across the field you know. We have people working on different implants. You break a bone, they’re redesigning plates and screws and knee implants and knee joints and all these things and you kind of can see that immediate impact or you have surgeons come talk to you and say, “Hey, this is a problem we’re having, can you help with it?” You get to see kind of that immediate impact, that immediate effect that research can have on a population. Now there’s FDA and getting something out there takes forever, but you can kind of see that immediate impact, which I liked a lot and it was something I always wanted when I was looking.

Bobby Rettew: When we started working on this video project, how did that shape your viewpoint of the discipline, because up until this point, and I’ve kind of purposely asked these questions this way, you’ve been very logical about this. Here’s a problem, I’m going to fix it, so let’s get in the lab and let’s just show that. Then we want to go out and shoot beautiful pictures and this and you’re going like what?

Meredith Owen: Oh yeah.

Bobby Rettew: Talk about what that experience was like when we started working on this project and started designing what the story was going to be like.

Meredith Owen: Yeah. It was definitely unexpected, just because I guess I had no basis for what was going on. You get CC’d on an email and you show up for a meeting and then a year later it’s a really cool project and a really cool video that hopefully is having the impact that we want. I think it is. Yeah, being an engineer I was like okay, they want to film a video about what we do, we’ll just set up an experiment in the lab that is something we actually are currently doing and they’ll film that. I think what I’ve learned through this is that what I think bioengineering is is because I’m in it, and if you’re outside of it and looking in, you don’t really know. It can be difficult to grasp.

Meredith Owen: Telling it in a story format makes it a little bit easier to understand or even get involved with. It’s just different. You’re not going to, I don’t want to say you’re not going to attract people if you just film someone in a lab coat running a basic experiment but it’s not the full story of what we do. I guess that’s kind of where I wasn’t making the connection is there’s a lot more that we do that I just don’t think about on a day, it’s not even what we do, but there’s a lot more involved and a lot more adjacent to what we do than what I think about.

Meredith Owen: Sometimes I get locked up in my little lab hole doing data analysis or running the same experiment however many times we need for significance or what have you. You forget that there’s a point, you don’t forget, you just kind of momentarily forget, I guess, that’s there’s a larger picture surrounding the whole thing. I get stuck in the little center and I forget about the large circle of kind of connected points that affect the story as well. We wouldn’t be doing what we were doing if this population didn’t exist.

Meredith Owen: There’s people that are affected at the end point, there’s people that are affected at the beginning point, there’s people that are affected throughout the middle. I guess that was the biggest thing for me, like looking back over how the video turned out and why you guys look to approach it the way you did. That’s why I’m not a storyteller. If it were me, they would have been launching three minutes of me in a lab coat doing data analysis or processing some stuff.

Bobby Rettew: I’m not saying that that would not be the best way to do it, just a different way. Yeah. Big question, what inspires you?

Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: What gets you up in the morning?
Meredith Owen: I think just the thought of doing something that’s for more than just me, knowing that hopefully what I’m doing day in and day out would impact people other than me. I wanted to be a doctor and that’s kind of where I initially got into bioengineering, because a lot of people do go into bioengineering and then go into medical school. When I first started that was something that I thought I wanted to do, is go to medical school. As I got through it I was like I don’t have to go be a doctor to directly impact patients.

Meredith Owen: For me, if I’m having a tough day in the lab or thinking why continue, or not even why continue but I’m just getting frustrated, I think that was a cool scene too, because that is definitely something that I do a lot is get frustrated. Things don’t work the first time and it’s easy to get frustrated but just knowing that hopefully one day, whether it’s here and something I do in the future, something that will have an impact on a population. Even if it’s just one person, you have an impact on one person more than yourself then I feel like you’ve done good in the world.

Bobby Rettew: Last question and then we’ll kind of wrap this up.
Meredith Owen: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: As you should be. There’s a picture of my daughter sitting, a picture I took, and she’s sitting up there with her little princess dress on and she has her little princess crown. She’s smart as a whip. If you could speak to the Roses of the world …

Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: … what would you tell them about, and I’m going to frame this question because I’m being very intentional about this question, this is not a political conversation but it gives you a frame of why I’m going to ask this question.
Meredith Owen: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: When the presidential election came the last time, there was a businessman vs a lady, Hilary vs President Trump. Through that whole deal Rose would watch. We were watching the debates, we were watching all that stuff and obviously there’s a lot of national discussion between those two narratives. Rose looked at me one day and she goes, “Daddy, do you think she’ll be president?” I said, “I think she can be.” She was like, “Do you think I could do that?”

Bobby Rettew: The next day we were watching soccer and it was a bunch of guys playing soccer and she was like, “Daddy, can I play soccer?” I was like, “Absolutely.” I went and found a women’s soccer game and replaced it. The next day she looked and we were watching Sports Center and she looks up and there are two ladies and one male …

Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: …leading morning Sports Center and she looked at me and goes, “Daddy, a girl can do that,” so I ask that question and I was very intentional about this project to pick a female because I felt like this would be a place to intersect engineering and my daughter could do it. I feel like I’m playing that out in this a little bit.

Meredith Owen: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: If you could speak to those girls that are watching the TVs and they’re seeing women in spaces that my generation never saw women, what would you say to those Rosebuds of the world?

Meredith Owen: Yeah. I mean I would initially say it’s completely possible now, and especially in the future for you to do anything you want to do. I think traditionally and even now I’m so lucky to be where I am now because I’ve never had to really worry about not being able to do something because of my gender, you know, the fact that I’m female instead of male. Just to know that if you don’t see a female in a position but you like that position, go be the first one to do it. No one’s telling you you can’t any more, or no one should be telling you you can’t. So find something you want to do and it doesn’t matter who’s done it before you, go do it.

Meredith Owen: I think hopefully things are changing so that that becomes more evident. I mean, I do think it’s really telling, you turn on ESPN and probably 80 percent of the time it’s a male sport. There’s female sports but they’re on ESPN 2. The WNBA Championship doesn’t get nearly the press that the NBA Championship gets. I mean, there’s no professional softball league, so there’s no real comparison there but the women’s soccer team, they had the huge argument and they fought for equal pay because they don’t get it.

Meredith Owen: The LPGA Tour, I play golf so that’s the one I know about. I mean, the purse prizes on that or even the exposure to those tournaments, minuscule compared to the amount of press that the PGA Tour gets. I think in the past, and sports are just an easy one to relate to because everyone watches sports or most people watch sports and so you see it there but then that can transfer into other things. If you see only men doing something you may think, oh well I can’t do it and I think that’s a good point there, is that switch between like hey daddy, can I do that to hey daddy, I can do that.
Meredith Owen: It’s a switch from a question to a statement and that’s what I would tell any young girl or anybody really that’s looking to find something they want to do, is find something you want to do and go do it. It doesn’t matter who’s done it before you.

Bobby Rettew: Are you a pioneer?

Meredith Owen: I don’t think I am, no.

Bobby Rettew: Why not?

Meredith Owen: Because there have been people before me that I’ve looked to to say they’ve done it. I mean, there have always been people that have, there’s always been those pioneers and those ground breakers, and I think they would probably all maybe say no, there’s always been someone before me. I think that’s the case. There’s always been someone that’s fought for what they believe in, so it doesn’t really matter. I think it’s becoming, as much as people talk about the media, you see things, we have access to information like no other generation has had.

Meredith Owen: Pull up your phone, you can access anything you want, you can Google anything you want, you can watch anything you want on YouTube so I think that’s important too, is just because you don’t right off see somebody doing something that you want to do, you can probably find it. You can go look for it and if you don’t see it, don’t take that as a negative of that’s something I can’t do, take it as a positive of hey let me go make that, let me go create that space.

Meredith Owen: Somebody, I don’t know if it’s even a quote or if I heard it from someone, but the concept of preparing for a job that may not exist yet, which is super cool, and the thought that your daughter could potentially be in a job that we haven’t even thought about right now. There’s so many things you don’t know what’s going to happen. I think that’s important too, is don’t take what other people say as limitations. Don’t take what you see other people doing as limitations.

Bobby Rettew: Ladies and gentlemen, Meredith Owen.

Meredith Owen: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: Thank you.

Meredith Owen: Yeah, thank you for having me.

Bobby Rettew: Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touch Point Media Network. Podcast dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO, technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health. That is, touchpoint.health. Have a good day.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

In the last episode we explored drones; in this episode we are reviewing portable hard drives. We will review how we choose a portable hard drive for images, video, and editing functionality along with how to make the best choice for your needs. Whether you are a healthcare communicator, content creator, photographer, or videographer; this podcast will help you make a choice the next time you have to pick one for your workflows. Once again, Mark Berry will be joining us for this episode. He is Gray Digital Group’s resident video director and producer who lives in the world of portable hard drives.

Reed: And we are cohosts on a show called Touchpoint, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals, but health systems and physician practices.

Chris: In every episode, we’ll dive deep into a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the healthcare industry today.

Reed: And while you listen to this show, we would certainly love you to check out.

Chris: All you have to do a swing on over to touchpoint.health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touchpoint media network.

Reed Smith: Welcome back to Year in Review. I’m Reed Smith, joined as always by Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew: What’s up?

Reed Smith: And for the second week in a row, [Mark Barry 00:00:55].

Mark Berry: Hello. Hey, you’re making a big time appearance, man.

Reed Smith: Yeah. I may just excuse myself and y’all can handle it from here. So, we’re going to talk about hard drives today. We have lots of hard drives because we create lots of content, especially you guys, probably more so than me. Most of my stuff is web based at this point just because of what I do, but y’all are creating a lot of video, a lot of photography, a lot of assets, a lot of files if you will, that are very large,

Reed Smith: Right? So, we’re going to talk about hard drives because I think people are purchasing these, and there’s a couple things here. To clarify, we are not talking about hard drives that are inside of your laptop or desktop, or what have you. We’re talking about external hard drives in … Probably more specifically, those that are portable. There are some. I’m looking at one sitting on Bobby’s desk right now that technically is portable, but it’s probably not meant to be portable. I mean, it’s sitting there and-

Reed Smith: Yeah. While you can carry that around, I guess, there’s nothing holding it down. It’s not really meant to be super portable.

Mark Berry: No.

Reed Smith: So, a couple of things … I have one that I carry around, and it’s … really no size-wise what to compare it to, to be perfectly honest, but it’s-

Bobby Rettew: It’s probably the size … I would say it’s probably the size of two iPhones stacked together.

Reed Smith: Yeah, I mean width-wise, it’s the size of your phone but it’s a little wider. Yeah, that’s fair. It plugs into my Mac Book. I think from a portable hard drive standpoint we have a couple of things … It’s what do you need it to connect to? Who’s going to be using it? What do you want to use it for?

Bobby Rettew: Yup.

Reed Smith: I don’t know. My laptop has four external ports that are all USB-C, so I’ve got to find an external hard drive that connects to USB-C.

Bobby Rettew: From a business standpoint, this is one of the biggest expenses that we deal with. From an operational standpoint, we deal with hard drive space. When we moved from actually capturing content on film and tape and moved to hard drive storage, that was a [inaudible 00:03:25] shift. So, we’re constantly having conversations. What hard drive is the best? What storage system is the best for what we do?

Bobby Rettew: I kind of look at it in a couple categories. Number one, store your documents. I use Dropbox for it. That’s a great place to store my documents and back that stuff up, and I have that constantly backing up to an external hard drive. Then, we have media storage and there’s storage versus usage. Do I just want to store pictures so that when I’m done, I can go pull it back out and go find it again? Not to actively edit, but to just store it, put it away to let it sit somewhere.

Reed Smith: That’s a good point because I do have an external hard drive, now that I think about it, sitting on my desk at home. I use a laptop and I have an external display, or what you, but I have … most everything that I have is in Dropbox, and I have it as a redundancy to this hard drive. I probably should have a third one that’s off site somewhere, but I don’t.

Bobby Rettew: We’ve actually started looking at another piece of technology that we could talk about another time is, Dropbox versus their competitors. You know, for document backup.

Reed Smith: Yeah, Cloud storage.

Bobby Rettew: Cloud storage and other options. This here is more for media management, for real-time media management. So, what we look at it is … One is are we storing just to set it somewhere to back it up? Or Two, are we actively using the hard drive to edit HD video content or 4k video content or photography that the images start at about 30megs a piece.

Reed Smith: I think that’s a good litmus test. It’s interesting because when I think about hard drives specifically, I don’t want a lot of that living on my computer because I’m probably not going to access it very often. That’s me, right? Now, you guys are a little bit different because you’re creating video content, and things like that. You’re accessing files continually.

Reed Smith: So, why does somebody want an external hard drive? I mean, there’s the obvious answer. They’ve run out of storage on their laptop or desktop, but what’s the point of external media storage?

Bobby Rettew: I think one point that I can think of, and then I’ll toss it to Mark because I think he probably has some good thoughts, is I look at my laptop … is that, if I drop it and it blows up, that I’ve still got everything backed up all the time. So, I never keep definite files on my laptop that, if something happens to it, I can’t access them somewhere else. I’m always backing up stuff to Dropbox.

Bobby Rettew: My media never stays on my laptop. It is always … When I capture something with a camera, I transfer it off the card, I create a folder in an external hard drive, and I organize that media and edit it on the hard drive. So, that hard drive is the owner of that media, not my laptop, that external hard drive. From a photography standpoint … When we capture photography, we have a hard drive per year for each year of pictures that is two terabytes per year that we use to back up all photography that we actively use to back up and edit all files. Does that makes sense?
Reed Smith: Yeah. Thoughts?

Mark Berry: Well, you know, I just remembered. I was born in 1988 and growing up, hard drives were everywhere. They were always there and I looked at them from a purely consumer standpoint, which is the opposite of the way I look at them now. Growing up, I remember just … The purpose they served to me as a consumer was number one, like Bobby said, they expanded the space on my laptop or my desktop.

Mark Berry: Second, they provided a really good way to backup songs or photos, or whatever it is I might want to back up. In a redundant way, that was much more secure than just having them live on my desktop. From a processional standpoint, it gets a little murkier because, especially … You know, Bobby brought up 4k. 4k poses a really simple problem, but has a very complex solution. With 4k, the problem’s simple. The files were huge.

Bobby Rettew: So, let’s talk about how … One media file could be close to 100 gigs.

Mark Berry: Right, one broll shot which would typically be like 11 gigabytes for us, maybe.

Bobby Rettew: So when we talk to a client, we ask the question, “HD or 4k?” If it’s 4k, we got to go, for that project, buy two external hard drives. One to edit off of and one to make it redundant. We’re looking at drives as a way to work and make it redundant and store from a media standpoint.

Reed Smith: So, to some degree, it depends on who’s listening to this, right?

Mark Berry: Yup.

Reed Smith: Of what they plan to do with this. The other option is, is you’re a marketing professional. You’re offloading drone footage, for example, to a production company or your agency, or whoever it may be. You’re offloading this onto a physical medium, if you will, and you’re physically mailing this or handing it to somebody else to then take and do with. So, it’s … We say this off the air, but it’s kind of true. It’s like a really big thumb drive.

Bobby Rettew: Yeah. We actually have external drives that are roughly either one terabyte or 500 gigs that are meant just to ship content to clients or to other production companies. They’re merely to dump something over, send it knowing that we may or may not get it back, and hope that we receive it back to it.

Reed Smith: So, why do that versus Cloud storage and sharing a link, and all that kind of stuff, and they download it from there, an FTP site or something?

Bobby Rettew: Project for us … Number one, is the file size. It takes a long time to upload that. In a hospital, your IT group will probably go nuts if you use the internet to upload 250 gigs worth of content through their connection. You know? Then, have to expect that to happen quickly. So, putting it on a hard drive is more expedient, and you can track if they get that hard drive or not. You know, you’ve FedEx it, you can see if they received it, and then you can reach back out to them and have them say, “Hey, what do you think about it?” And then have them return it. It’s kind of a tracking mechanism.

Reed Smith: I think that’s fair. I think, in other cases, we’re talking about external media, external hard drives, and holding this stuff. What are we looking for? So, when I’m going out to purchase one … Number one, I’m looking at, well how is it physically connect to the device that I have? Again, I’ve got a new Mac Book. It only has USB-C. I’ve got to hook into USB-C. We haven’t really gotten into the spinning versus non-spinning pieces.

Reed Smith: Historically, you could feel or hear or both this disk start spinning in there, right? A nice SSD or solid state drives. Are those better because there’s less moving parts? What I am looking for when buying these devices?

Mark Berry: I don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but you have to identify what you’re trying to do and then back track it to the product. I mean, are you editing video? Then you probably need a good spinning drive that can work fast and communicate well with video editing software.

Reed Smith: What’s fast?

Mark Berry: Quite simply, if you try to make an edit in a video, does it make the edit right away, or does it lag for four seconds? [crosstalk 00:12:15] check the edit. That’s fast in terms of-

Reed Smith: What am I looking for? Is that a certain type of a spec of the hard drive? Is it-

Bobby Rettew: Typically, we’re looking at [crosstalk 00:12:27]. Yeah, so we’re looking at throughput for video editing, minimum 75 RPMs on a spinning hard drive. The SSD is going to be so much more fast, but it’s going to be five to 10 times more expensive for that capacity. So, if you want a two terabyte drive that can handle video editing, it’s going to be … let’s say it’s a couple hundred dollars.

Bobby Rettew: You could probably multiply that by three to five for an SSD. So, it’s going to be a lot more expensive, and that spinning driver that [inaudible 00:13:02] has RPMs is going to be less expensive and more user-friendly for the average person. It’s going to fulfill what they need to do.

Mark Berry: Once again, it depends on the objective you are trying to achieve. If you’re just backing up your Google docs, a solid state one terabyte drive would be way more than you’ll ever need.

Reed Smith: That makes sense. As I think about this, you got thumb drives now that are like 64 gigs, you know, kind of a deal … go on your keyring.

Mark Berry: That would be way more than you’d ever need.

Reed Smith: Right. That would be plenty for backing up documents and, probably, a fair amount of pictures quite honestly. So, you’ve got these thumb drives that are like 64 gigs, 128 gigs, I mean it’s insane. The cost of memory has come way down. You could get a one or even two terabyte mobile drive, solid state, for 100 bucks maybe less, I don’t know … depending on the brand.

Reed Smith: When I look at mobile versus something that’s the size of a brick that’s sitting on your desk, Bobby, and stuff like that. Am I giving up something based on the form factor, or is it all pretty much the same, it’s just form factor and how much storage it has?

Bobby Rettew: I think if it’s a take away for the hospital director of marketing. They’re going to look for something … If it’s documents and pictures and some video, you’ll want something portable and small. I would basically buy … I would use something per year. I would say, “Hey. For 2018 this is the hard drive I’m going to put all my 2018 stuff on, and organize it accordingly.” Then, when you get to 2019, put that on the shelf and get you a 2019 drive. That allows you to organize stuff based on year, based on your budget cycle, based on initiates and campaigns.

Bobby Rettew: For the people that need something big, it’s more or less going to be bigger media professionals like your video producers and your photographers. They’re going to want something a lot larger that has more speed, more functionality to hook into different types of computers. The big one that we have is a big G-Tech drive, and it has a Thunderbolt USB 3. It’s Thunderbolt 3, and then also has FireWire built into it. So, I can plug into a bunch of different types of computers based on my need. It’s more flexible for that media professional.

Mark Berry: I just want to say, Bobby brought up a really good point that we haven’t touched on yet, is that external hard drives really offer a really good record keeping utility that a lot of onboard hard drives and Cloud storage doesn’t offer, depending on what you’re trying to do.

Reed Smith: That makes a lot of sense. I think there’s that … Was it three, two, one adage where you have it in three different … Was it three different types of medium, and then two different locations with one being off site, or something like that.

Reed Smith: So, I think that makes a lot of sense because the hardest part about all of this is, usually, the things that you’re capturing are really hard to go back and replace. We don’t mean the exterior picture of the hospital necessarily, because you don’t want to update that anyway. It’s interviews you’ve done, patient testimonials, things like that, that it’s like, “Well, it’s really hard to go back and capture that moment.” So, having good medias that you can back this stuff up on, places you can store it, things like that are going to be important.

Mark Berry: Not just having it, but being able to retrieve it quickly [crosstalk 00:16:49] some of the hard drives offer.

Bobby Rettew: One thing we’ll do in the show notes is to put some of the different drives and sizes that we’re using. Maybe you might help to classify it a little bit. This will be good for this type of professional versus this type of professional. What I do say is, one of the biggest things that I tell everybody, including my wife at home is, “Whatever media we have let’s always back it up.” I always have a back up for the back up.

Bobby Rettew: I have my drive that I use in my satchel, and then I have a duplicate of it somewhere else all the time, because my kids videos and pictures are on there and those are important. I treat my work the same way.

Reed Smith: Yeah. Well, if it’s important it’s on Facebook, right?

Bobby Rettew: Yeah, pretty much.

Reed Smith: All right. Well, all good stuff and we’ll probably do additional episodes on specific types of hard drives and things like that coming down the pipe, but good place to start, good things to think about. Mark, thanks for hanging out for a little bit, and Bobby. From Reed Smith, Bobby, and Mark, we will see you next week. Thanks.

Bobby Rettew: Later.

Reed Smith: This show is made possible in part by the Social Health Institute. Through research and partnerships with healthcare organizations around the country, the Social Health Institute explores new and innovate ways for hospitals, healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more a bout the Social Health institute, visit them online at SocialHealthInstitute.com. That’s SocialHealthInsittute.com.

Reed Smith: This has been a Touchpoint media production. To learn more about this show and others like it, please visit us online at Touchpoint.health.

Most of what hear about America these days outlines our frustrations – the widening gap between the haves and the have-nots, middle class jobs fading away, hate-filled politics that prefers gridlock to compromise. What we know about America mostly comes from journalists who travel in herds, trailing politicians or camped out at big stories, pouncing on problems to repeat over and over. They offer up celebrity experts for solutions, the people who spend their busy days spouting opinions to cameras, while others in the shadows quietly make America work.

America survives and thrives because of all those names we don’t know, seemingly ordinary people who do extraordinary things. They don’t run for president or go on talk shows, but without them, the best of America would not exist. Bob Dotson has traveled more than four million miles, crisscrossing America practically non-stop for half a century, searching for people who are practically invisible, the ones who change our lives, but don’t take time to tweet and tell us about it.

His long-running series, “The American Story with Bob Dotson,” was a regular feature on the TODAY Show until his retirement on the 40th anniversary of the day he joined NBC. I met Bob in 1998 at the National Press Photographers Association workshop in Norman, Oklahoma. It was that day, I began a journey of telling stories. He taught me the passion and skill behind the interview, something I use everyday of my professional career.

Bobby Rettew: Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute, exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Bob Dotson: Hi, this is Bob Dotson. You may not remember the name, but you might recognize my voice. For 40 years I was a correspondent on NBC and for 25 years I reported a segment on the Today Show called The American Story. I got the pleasure of traveling around this country almost four million miles, practically nonstop on NBC’s nickel and hang out with the kind of people you’d like to meet on vacation. They’re just ordinary people, but by gosh they have figured out ways to solve problems that we all face and that was quite a career.

Bobby Rettew: Most of what we hear about America these days outlines our frustrations. The widening gap between the haves and have nots, middle class jobs fading away, hate-filled politics that prefers gridlock to compromise. What we know about America mostly comes from journalists who travel in herds, trailing politicians or camped out at big stories, pouncing on problems to repeat over and over. They offer up celebrity experts for solutions, the people who spend their busy days spouting opinions to cameras while others in the shadows quietly make America work.

America survives and thrives because of all those names we don’t know, seemingly ordinary people who do extraordinary things. They don’t run for president or go on talk shows, but without them the best of America would not exist. These are the words of Bob Dotson, who has traveled more than four million miles, crisscrossing America practically nonstop for half a century, searching for people who are practically invisible, the ones who change our lives but don’t take time to tweet and tell us about it.

I met Bob in 1998 at the National Press Photographers’ Association workshop in Norman, Oklahoma. It was that day I began a journey of telling stories. He taught me the passion and the skill behind the interview, something I use every day of my professional career. Bob Dotson is one of the most honored storytellers of our time.

How did you get to NBC news? Did it just magically happen, one day you woke up and started working there? So tell us your path to NBC.

Bob Dotson: My path to the network started when I was eight years old. Now that seems kinda strange but I’ll tell you why. I used to spend summers in a small town called Hiawatha, Kansas with my grandparents, and after dinner we’d go out on the front porch and start rocking in the swing and my grandfather would start telling me stories. Now most older people will say I belong to the Kiwanis Club and I was in the 4th Infantry and about two minutes in you’re falling asleep, but my grandfather would always start his stories with something like this, “Did I ever tell you about my honeymoon?”

Of course even at eight, I was interested, but I said, “No.” He said, “Well, yeah,” he says, “you know your grandmother and I we were on a train going to Salt Lake City,” and I was kind of a snarky kid, so I said, “Why would you go on your honeymoon to Salt Lake City?” “I had a free ticket,” and he said, We were in the dining car and the conductor wobbles up to us and he said, ‘Are you Paul Bailey and do you live in a little tiny town in Kansas?’ and I said, ‘Yeah,’ and he says, ‘Well, I’m your oldest brother who you’ve never met.'”

Bobby Rettew: Oh my gosh.

Bob Dotson: My grandfather was the last of 10 kids, so this guy must have been like in his 20s right, and he went West after the Civil War as many people did, he tried to get a job on a railroad up in North Dakota and that was the Great Northern Railroad. Well, the kinds of families that were getting jobs all had Norwegian or Swedish surnames, so he changed his name from Bailey to Bailison, so he could get the job, and in those days if you didn’t have property and most people didn’t and your parents sent you a letter, it went to general delivery and of course the last known town where this guy lived, the postmaster knew a Bailison, but he didn’t know any Bailey so it all just went into the dead letter file, so he didn’t pay any attention to it.

Anyway, I have a postcard that I have over my desk and it shows my grandfather and grandmother and this older brother floating on their backs in the great Salt Lake, you know with the hats and the spaghetti string swimsuits and it must have been the first tweet of the 20th century because it was a postcard back to the mother and all it says is, “Ma, We found Vance. More later.”

So if you grow up on a front porch with a storyteller like that, you’re more interested than just who, what, when where and why. You’re interested in a yarn, spin me a yarn. My grandfather used to say, “When you tell me a story pretend like you’re standing at fence talking to your neighbor and lean over and make me interested in it even if I don’t think I am.” So that’s where it started.

I go to Oklahoma. My first job was with NBC affiliate down there. So my entire career was with NBC, which is amazing for somebody in television news because usually you make more money if you move someplace else, but like I said earlier, I had the world’s best job, I knew it early on, and so I just figured I would do it over and over again.

So I was down there doing documentaries because in the 1960s a lot of people didn’t want to do reporting. They thought they had all the answers and if you just give them an hour-and-a-half they can do a documentary. So I had been doing a documentary up near Oklahoma State University and the fire chief called me one day and said, “We’re tearing down the fire station and we found a bunch of film up in the attic and I’m not sure what it is. Would you come take a look?” So I did and I said, “Well, first of all, it’s nitrate based, which is highly explosive. So that’s probably, whoever shot it put it up there because if it blew up, you’d guys would be close.”

Bobby Rettew: That’s awesome.

Bob Dotson: After that, they started very gingerly taking it out, but I got a bunch of money from the two big universities in Oklahoma and a history center and our local station and we very gingerly took it out to Los Angeles to see what we could find. It was shot by an early day [pathay 00:06:29] newsreel photographer named Benny Kent and he was enough of a storyteller, he shot stuff in addition to what he would sell to New York because he just thought it’d be an interesting story.

So he has women’s history, without women parading around just in swimming suits, which is what they did in the 1920s if they were on film. He had Native Americans in three piece suits and not wearing feathers. He had 28 all African American towns that were founded by ex-slaves. All of these treasure trove, right?

So I trenched around the country, around the state and said, “Anybody recognize anyone in here?” Well, of course, they did, and it was like Bass Reeves, who was the first Black federal marshal and this, that and the other and people would add their memories. I ended up doing an hour-and-a-half documentary. It won every award in the world. It became the first documentary to win on the local station, a national Emmy and NBC came calling.

But this is the interesting thing. I get a job and I think, “Gosh, I must be something,” and so I go to work at the Today Show, do my first story and the boss says, “Well, I’m only gonna give you a minute 10,” and I’ve been working on 90 minutes, right? A minute 10. Well everybody my age was all arguing about, “Well, I need a minute 15, I’ve got the second coming of Christ and I need two minutes,” and of course the boss would always say, “Well, great, but after a minute 10 you’re done.” The only thing on the Today Show back in the ’60s that ran at that length was a live interview on set.

So anyway, I figured I can beat these guys. I decided to use all the storytelling techniques that I could remember doing documentary and I would every story, no matter what it was, in 59 seconds, not a minute, not a minute 10, not 58 seconds, 59 seconds, and I’d do that for entire calendar year. So every morning when everyone else was calling up asking for more time, the boss knew that he could give them the 11 seconds that I had, you know? Okay.

Meantime, I went out with really good camera people and said, “Can I borrow your camera,” and they reluctantly let me do it and then I’d come back and I would go to a really good editor and I’d say, “I’ve edited this thing down to what I think might word. How can I improve it?” and I kept working and finding a story that might actually run more than a minute 10, and I polished it, had it all edited up and had it my back pocket. I met the boss in an elevator, gave him my 15 second elevator pitch, which is, “I think I found a story that might run a little longer,” and I said, “Could I get two minutes?” I told him what the story was and he said, “I will give you five.”

Years later I asked him why because I had five minutes on the Today Show from 1977 until I retired in 2015 and that was a lot of different changes. When everyone was going down to two seconds and tweets and this, that and the other, they still gave me five. Years later he says, “I figure if you had the discipline to tell a story well in 59 seconds with a beginning, middle and ending, maybe a cliffhanger, maybe some surprised, maybe you’d be able to increase your audience and not just report to the audience that already understands, that if I gave you five minutes you’d write a novel and you wouldn’t just say, ‘Okay, I need five minutes ’cause I want my standup to go a little longer.'” That’s the reporter on camera thing or maybe the interview the governor to run 13 seconds when it really only needs to run eight ’cause he didn’t say anything today, that sort of stuff.

So I learned a valuable lesson that no matter whether you’re writing a long book, which I’ve done, or done documentaries, which are an hour or more or you’ve got 59 seconds, you can tell story. Some of the things we all remember to this day and well placed country western lyrics like, “Honey, the gutter ain’t a step up from you.” If it says a story really well, it says it in just a few words. So this whole argument about the … you know, everything is changing today because of Twitter and Facebook, it really isn’t. It’s just a different way of developing your communication and your message, but you can’t tell me that country western lyricists and Japanese poets haven’t been writing very effectively at that length for thousands of years.

So that’s what I did. I just figured I would focus my entire career on being able to bring all those tools of storytelling to seemingly ordinary people who have done something significant, it’s not good news with Jerry Falwell, it’s just investigative reporting but on people who have seldom ever investigated, which is us because we might have actually solved something. So that was the focus of my career.

Bobby Rettew: I remember meeting you in 1998 at the NPPA workshop. For most people that don’t know what NPPA is, it’s the National Press Photographers’ Association and remember sitting in Oklahoma City at Norman … well Norman, not Oklahoma City, but in Norman, and you spoke and one of the most powerful things I remember is you talking about the power of the interview and you showed this clip and I think it was probably a situation where, if I remember correctly, it was a breaking news thing or something was going on, but basically you talked about how sometimes you just gotta bite your lip and let people talk. I’ve always been enthralled and tried to apply what you taught that day in everything I do. I would love for you to talk about the power of the interview and how you really see that as an opportunity to expose people into a different way of looking inside of their lives and letting them tell the stories as opposed to us trying to tell it.

Bob Dotson: I’ve notice over my career that people always answer questions that you ask in three parts. They give you the answer they think you’ve asked for, and then they explain their answer. If you wait just a bit before you jump in, people get nervous because filling the silence, they figure, “Well I haven’t really explained it well enough,” and so you stop talking, don’t jump in with the next question and then just a beat they go, “Well that’s where I killed my wife.” Well, you were there because they were illegally parking on Main Street and suddenly they’re telling you they’ve created murder. Well, that’s the point. When you’re dealing someone, it’s not just to try to find information to put into your story, but also to go deeper into a story because most people they’ve been watching television and reading newspapers and books and stuff for years. They know exactly what you want they think.

For instance, if there’s a tornado that comes through last night, the next day somebody is always gonna talk about how it sounded like a freight train. The problem is all that’s cliché and we’ve heard it 1,000 times before and people click away from that. I always assume when I go into an interview that the people I’m going to be telling this information to don’t care at all. Now most storytellers go in the other way. They think, “Oh, what I’m doing, you know I’m close to the president,” or “I’m close to this great sports figure,” so just by being close to them it’s very, very important, but you’re assuming that people have any interest in it.

I go in thinking there is no interest, so I start looking for the universal connections and I ask questions about emotion and family and motivation. It could be a simple question like … If you’re in the middle of a tornado you go like, “Well, what’s next?” instead of saying, “How do you feel?” Who cares how they feel. We know exactly how they feel, so we do care, but that’s not storytelling. Storytelling is to say, “What’s next?” And not accept the first or the second part of the answer. Remember, they give you the answer they think you’ve asked for, then they explain their answer, just like I’m doing now and then if you wait just a beat or two, let them fill the silence, I call it the rule of threes, that if you let them fill the silence they’ll come back with a part of the story you don’t know well to ask about and that’s generally the story that makes it into your piece or the letter you’re writing to your grandmother or whatever.

There’s two things in life I think you really need to know how to … You need to know how to add, so you can figure out how much they’re paying you and how much you got to spend and the other one is how to tell what you love or what you have to do to someone who has no background in that. So you don’t have to be a journalist to learn the art of storytelling and so it’s very, very important. I mean journalists basically take complicated subjects or try to and put it into people talk and don’t we all try to do that? If we try to explain something we’re trying to do or … we’re already into it so we’ve got a whole lot more information and interest than the people who are listening or reading, but that’s the transformation and if you can do that, you start to gather a crowd and that’s the most important thing.

Bobby Rettew: I loved your metaphor about being at the chain link fence having a conversation. Talk about using that metaphor in everything you did, that relational piece.

Bob Dotson: Well, when I showed up on a story people though Matt Lauer was coming or Tom Brokaw or somebody. So they were always disappointed when I walked in the door and I used that because I’m nobody, I’m just a storyteller and once you take away all of that hoo-ha that people expect, even if you’ve got cameras or you’ve got things to set up … I told everybody I worked with, “Just pretend like it’s your great aunt and if your microphone falls over, don’t sit there and complain about how you ran out of batteries, just change the dang battery because they’re all gonna start getting scared that you’re there with all this stuff and suddenly they’re the center of attention.

So what I did was I kinda like the guy that worked in the hardware store. I just showed up and I would start to ask questions that would get them over to the topic. You know rather than come in and say, “There was a tornado last night and you lost everything. How do you feel?” I remember a lesson I learned from an NBC cameraman named Scottie Burner. We were trying to figure out where the son of the Shah of Iran was, he was supposed to be at Lackland Air Force Base and the Shah of Iran was dying and everyone from the world of journalism was out there trying to get a quick soundbite with him about his dad.

Well of course they had him under wraps and they had him in a house outside the base. So we were all set up there for an hour or two and nothing happened. So all of the reporters went into to town and get lunch ’cause we were the least important people and the people taking the picture they all were set up hoping they could at least get a picture of him.

So I came back with my sack of McDonald’s for everybody and there was the press core standing around Scottie Burner, the NBC cameraman and I said, “Scottie, what’s going on?” He says, “Well, I got an interview with the Shah of Iran’s son. I got all the video. I fed it up to New York. It’s already been on the Today Show and I was the only one to get it.” I said, “Wait a minute. You’re here with 20 people, how did you get it?” and he said, “Well,” he says, “I just used the approach, which is the question which is not a question,” and I said, “Aw, come on, what are you talking about?”

He says, “Well,” he says, “Everybody’s camera was lined up on the house. My camera was too, but I decided I wouldn’t look at the house. We’d been looking at it for an hour. I looked down the street the other way and I figured if they saw him … you know, I had my finger on the button, I’d just turn the camera on and we’d get him, but meanwhile, I saw a young man walking down the street who didn’t look like he grew up in Lubbock, Texas.

So I took camera off the tripod and I wandered down the street and I didn’t walk up to him with the camera rolling, say, ‘I’m Scottier Burner, NBC Network tool, are you the Shah of Iran’s kid and if you are, how do you feel?’ I just noticed he was looking at flowers as he went along and I said, ‘Those are beautiful chrysanthemums,’ and the young man said, ‘Yep,’ he says, ‘Yep, flowers were my dad’s favorite,'” and Scottie said, “My dad loved chrysanthemums too.” Then Scottie said and it’s absolutely true, “My father passed away last year.” He didn’t say, “My dad passed away last year and I miss him because I’m looking at flowers. He just said, “My father passed away last year,” and stopped talking and turned his camera on.

And this young man [inaudible 00:18:20] and he went, “My dad,” soundbite, soundbite, soundbite, soundbite. “Well,” he said, “I wasn’t really still sure that this was the Shah of Iran’s son, except a couple of guards popped up over the hedges and went, “Oh, da-da-da-da-,” and they came running down the driveway and he says, “I turned around and I wasn’t gonna start arguing my first amendment freedom with guys who were carrying their second amendment freedoms. I just started taking extra pictures that I would need to tell the story and then as they were hustling this young man up the driveway I yelled to one of them, “Is that the Shah of Iran’s son?” and he said, “Yes,” and he says, “I went over and fed New York.” He did it by asking a question that was not a question.

Most people will speak more freely if you talk about what they’re comfortable talking about. So if you walk into a kitchen you talk about your grandmother’s recipe and let them talk about their recipe. You see what he did, he gradually moved it over to the topic of fathers without adding his own input into like so many people do today. It’s just let’s talk about flowers. My dad had flowers. His dad loved flowers. We found a common thing just like you would in regular conversation, you get it onto the topic without ever asking a direct question and you stop talking and then he goes so much deeper and in this case doesn’t run away from you and you’ve got it and of course he wasn’t hiding, he had NBC blazoned all over his camera.

He knew he was talking to a cameraman, but he didn’t just, “Wait a minute. Let me get you over here to the sun and let me move your microphone in a little closer.” He just made his shift, whatever he had to do in order to get the soundbite and he did it by asking this question that’s not a question and I have used that for a million years.

That goes along with the rules of threes, letting them fill the silence because all of your listeners probably have watched detective shows on TV and you know … a lot of my in-laws are all cops and they said, “You know, when we take someone into an interrogation room, we top talking at some point because the first person who says something is usually the perp and the perp will tell you someone you didn’t even know, but if you just keep asking questions over and over again, they either clam up or they tell you stuff that you might suspect that wouldn’t really tell you anything deeper about the story.” So he says, “Silence is the most important part.”

In fact, when I went home for Christmas … I’m talking about these cops … when I went home for Christmas they all put their pistols in a safe at my mother-in-law’s house. So I figured I had to get along with them, so I took out my reporter’s notebook and locked that in the safe too.

Bobby Rettew: That’s awesome.

Bob Dotson: Yeah, but you don’t have to be a reporter to use those tools. It’s an overworked cliché that most people only listen because they want to know where to jump in with their opinion and they’re not really listening to the other person. We know that in our political conversations these days, but if you want to be an effective storyteller, the most important thing is to listen and the reason for that is, you’ll figure out the part where you’re supposed to stop talking.

Bobby Rettew: I remember sitting at a dinner table with you in Charlotte, North Carolina and I wrote a letter saying there was really cool story in Charlotte to you about a gentleman name Ron Gadis and I didn’t think anybody would respond because I know network is busy. I was a little local television photojournalist and I thought it was a good story and I thought it deserved some more attention, but you wrote back and I was excited and I’ll never forget that night that you took me and Sara, and the Hotermans were with us, great, great photographers and camera people, they’re just awesome.

We sat there and I’ll never forget you talking about the onion and the power of peeling back layers. That has been inspirational to me and I’ve used that and thought through that and I’ve really tried to practice that. I would love for you to just share your vision of that and what that means and how you use it every day.

Bob Dotson: Well, a great story is a lot like an onion, not because it makes you cry, but because it has many layers and as you put together a story you have to put the layers in to grab attention because some people might love your story because it has beautiful pictures, a great [inaudible 00:22:35] shot, and some people might love it just because it’s a musical piece and his brother Joe, who’s the audio man, recorded some great music, and somebody else might like it just because it’s country western, and somebody else might this, might that, but all of these are layers into a story.

They’re like grace notes, to use little bit of different metaphor. If you hear your favorite song played, you get emotional every time because it reminds you of something in your life. If you hear it played at the Ramada Inn out on the interstate, you don’t like it as well. It has the same notes, but it doesn’t have the grace notes, it doesn’t have those little extra things, those hooks that will bring people into your audience.

That’s the most difficult thing. If you’re a comedian, for instance, and can make a four-year-old laugh in New Jersey and a grandmother laugh in Western Kansas, you’ve figured out how to tell a story because what you’ve done is you’ve put in hooks that everybody can find an entryway into your subject matter. Most people don’t do that. They tell stories only to their own neighborhood, their own age group, but I always wanted to have a long career as a storyteller, so I remembered that metaphor of the onion. Try to find a story that has so many layers in it that people will want to know more constantly. Now there’s something, leads to something, leads to something. This is storytelling 101.

For instance, when I wrote the “American Story,” which is one of three books that I’ve written, it was the first one that was expected to make money and so the boss of the book publishing firm at Penguin Random House said, “Listen, I don’t care whether you can write. I figure you can if you’ve had a job for all these years. What I want to know is how you’re going to push the reader from page 1 to page 300.” Suddenly I realized he’s talking about the onion, right?

You know this is architecture, this is structure you’re dealing with, not just the fact that you’ve got this compelling subject matter and by god we ought to tell it ’cause all my friends love it. I mean I can’t tell you how many people have called me up and said, “You ought to do a story about sailboats,” and I said, “Okay, what’s the story?” “I don’t know, but I love sailboats. Don’t you love sailboats?” I said, “Yeah, I love sailboats,” I said, “Great, but what’s the story?” “I don’t know but I love sailboats.” That’s where most people get off, but in this case I’m figuring how can I take that and come into something that will expand the audience.

So for instance, every mystery writer will tell you that the end of chapter 1 is when the suspect has a knife in the air and then you don’t figure out who he stabbed until chapter 6. That’s architecture. In other words you don’t give away the story. You stretch it out, you have teases, you have foreshadowing, you have all the things that you fell asleep in English class and they have these highfalutin terms, but basically they work and they’ve worked for generations and that’s why. If you want to expand your audience for storytelling and aren’t we all in social media these days and we’re hoping that we have 8,000 clicks or 5,000 followers or whatever, well you get that primarily because hopefully you’ve come up with something and told in such a way that people want to know more.

Bobby Rettew: Now a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection. Touchpoint Media, a collection of podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare, including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go touchpoint.health, that is touchpoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew: What is … and you’ve done so many stories, but what stories, maybe there’s one or two or three that have really touched you personally, like have really moved you in a way that many of the other stories haven’t?

Bob Dotson: Well, you know, when someone asks me my favorite story, I generally say, “The next one,” because I’ve done so many. Like I say 6,000 stories in the past 40 years, but I’ve gotta say that one of them really stands out to me in terms of how we can solve things.

There was a guy named James [Sudduth 00:26:56] who is a truck driver, came home from the Korean War, was carrying some stuff up to Detroit, Michigan and when he got to Detroit, he found out that the company he worked for had gone bankrupt. So he needed a job, he was in his 40s, he had three kids. He took a job as a janitor at the University of Michigan, Detroit, Medical Center and he sat there watching some of these young surgeons practicing on rats and stuff and he realized their tools were too big.

So he went home in his garage and created some of the first microsurgical tools. He came back and he presented them to the various professors and he said, “You might want to try that.” So he became more than a janitor. The professors would send students to him if they had a difficult time understanding a concept because he could put it into people talk, which is exactly what you’re talking about right now. He could put it into people talk and he would say things like, “It may be a rat, but if you’re using a scalpel, the rat would probably appreciate it if you went into the same hole and came out of the same hole and,” he says, “that’s true of everything.”

Okay. So he ended up as kind of an associate professor. He had never gone to medical school and if you graduate from the University of Michigan Medical School today in their surgery department, you get your name on a plaque with his face and the dean will say, “He was the finest surgical professor we ever had.”

Now here’s the kicker. I met him because I was having coffee in a little town I Mississippi and everybody said, “Oh, when were you born?” and I said, “Oh, 1946,” and he says, “Oh, there’s a guy outside of town. He’s real good with his hands. He’s restoring an old car.” So I went and met Jim and we got to talking and he said, “You know, you can’t tell a car by it’s color,” and then I used those questions that are not questions and the rule of threes. Suddenly I find out this callosal story about how he had changed medicine and of course he never wrote a book about it, never ran for Congress, so no one knew.

I said, “Well Jim, you know some of your doctors that you taught have gone on to great fame and fortune,” including one guy, who was foremost testicular cancer surgeon in America, who when I interviewed him said, “Well, Jim and I were doing heart transplants on rats with his tiny tools, so,” he says, “If you can do a heart transplant on a rat a testicle looks like a volleyball.” He says, “I got no problems.”

So I asked Jim, I said, “What’d you get out of it?” He was 87 years old. He says, “Well I’m at the age where pretty soon I’m gonna be in a surgical unit and I’m gonna have to have something done to save my life and I’m gonna call in a lot of old IOUs and I’m gonna know they were well taught.”

So you see, I could tell you thousands of stories like that and that’s what I’m talking about, investigative reporting on seemingly ordinary people who have change, not just our local lives or our neighborhoods or trying to amass things to send to our troops overseas, but significantly changed America but were too busy to tell us about it.

Bobby Rettew: When you approach a story and you know you’re gonna go interview this individual whoever it may be, and you’ve obviously researched it, do you have a notepad with all your questions laid out or do you explore through that process of the interview to the point where the questions are meaningless, you really just want to find other intersections in there? How do you prepare for an interview?

Bob Dotson: Well, I do both. From the moment I decide to do a story or I was assigned a story I started playing the game of what if. If I had to quit right now and all I had was like two minutes in the driveway, what would be the point of my story? What do I want to get out of it? Not what information I want, but what’s the point of your story? What do I want people to carry away with it?

So I would constantly think, “All right, what the close?” and it would change constantly, but if you know where you’re going, even though it’s changing, you know the kinds of questions to ask. The rest of those questions become chapter 2. You’re not just coming in with 1,000 things, but what I do if I’ve got time to sit down and do it, I write out 100 questions, then I throw out 95 of them, but I’ve gone through it all and I said, “If everything works perfectly. If the sun comes up in the east and it doesn’t rain and I’ve got all the time I need to ask every question to everybody I know, this is what I need to do it,” and what it is is you’re getting up to speed. You’re starting to think, “Okay, what’s the information I need to get to that point?” and, “What’s my opening,” which I never ever worry … when I sit down to write a story I always write the middle first. When I wrote my book I wrote the middle chapters first. It’s easiest ’cause you’re not sitting there angsting over your opening line or opening shot or any of that stuff because once you start writing the middle, what happens is you’ve gone back over your research either on your phone or in your head or wherever and the opening line presents itself.

Like for instance, if you’ve used those non questions and the rule of threes well, you probably have two or three really major points, only one of which can you use in your story, like a soundbite or a pretty picture that illustrates that, that’s the point of it, but there are two or three others. So I take one of the two or three others when I’m working on my middle part and I say, “Hey, that’s the perfect opening.” I paraphrase it and make it an opening line. Now I haven’t sat there and wasted 20 minutes saying, “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, I’m not sure what it is,” you know? So you’re not frozen and because from the very beginning that you’re considering a story, you’re asking yourself, “What’s the point? Where am I going?” Then you know.

It’s like good theater is knowing when to get off stage, so this is a theatrical thing that you’re doing here. It’s literary, but it’s also theatrical. You have an opening act, you have some surprises, you have some turns and then you get out. So if you know where you’re going, you’ve prepared as well as you can, then you put all the preparation aside and what you’re talking about is that when you get into the fog of the story, you start seeing connections that you hadn’t anticipated before, but the connections come from asking really good questions and then letting them fill the silence. So it’s just as important to prepare. You can’t go in and wing it in storytelling. The most important thing is to ask questions.

Like for instance, I was on an island off the coast of Rhode Island called Block Island and there was a guy there. I was supposed to go do a funny ha-ha story on the fact that he was 90 years old and he was a state driver’s license examiner. So if you were 16 in Block Island, you had to go down and see Fred Benson and the guy walked with a walker. So I thought, “Okay, this is your classic noon news closing feature,” but I started using all those techniques and he started filling the silence and he said, “You know …” we were all done and we were sitting waiting for the ferry to come back and take us back to the mainland, and I looked up at that lighthouse, which is gorgeous on Block Island.

I said, “You know that’s a beautiful lighthouse,” and then I stopped talking and he says, “I remember the first time I saw it I was eight years old and I came here from an orphanage.” I didn’t say anything, and he said, “A fellow by the name of Gird Milliken, who had 12 children took me in and on Saturday nights the different farm families on Block Island would have dinners and then brag on their kids and one night Gird Milliken got up and pointed his finger all the way past all his kids down to me at the end of the table and he said, ‘Keep your eye on Fred Benson. See how he turns out.'”

I didn’t say anything, and Fred said, “I was president of the Chamber of Commerce five times.” Didn’t say anything. He says, “I was head of the fire rescue team and squad for 30 years.” Didn’t say anything. He says, “I started all the baseball teams on the island. Did I tell you I won the Rhode Island State lottery?” He said, “I threw a barbecue and I told all the kids to come and I said, ‘Anybody that qualifies for a school, I’ll send you to college.'” And he said, “When I was 54 I could see that the economy was changing from farm to tourism, so we’d need hotels, so I finally went to college and I came back and became the shop teacher that taught the three major building firms, presidents, on this island.” About that time one of the granddaughters of Gird Milliken, the original family came walking by and she said, “Did he tell you he still lives in the same room at our house?” “No.” I didn’t ask her anymore questions. She said, “Oh yeah, yeah,” he says, “It’s unheated.” “Really?” “Yeah, it was right next to Gird and his wife, Mary, and it’s the same room where he lived when they took him in.” I went, “Okay, now I got a story.”

So I asked Mr. Benson, I said, “When do you go to bed?” And he said, “Oh seven o’clock every night.” I said, “Great, do you mind if we go over to your house and meet you in your bedroom. We’d like to take some pictures of you crawling up the stairs,” ’cause it’s up the second floor, and about that time the granddaughter says, “You know we’ve asked him to move down to our level where it’s heated, but he says, ‘I’m perfectly happy here.'” Well, by this time we had the cameras back out and quietly we had recorded all of that and we missed the ferry going back for the final shot, which was him coming up the stairs to go back to that bedroom and we used it with the last thing he told us after I looked back out at that lighthouse and we could hear the buoy sounds and the birds going by and Fred looked at it, and them he looked at me and he says, “I hope Gird Milliken knows how I turned out.”

Bobby Rettew: Wow.

Bob Dotson: So you can see you can start with what’s seemingly obvious. Funny, ha-ha, 90-year-old man, state driver’s license examiner. We’ve seen a thousand of those stories and they mean nothing except for a little chuckle and god we know chuckles. We need them today, especially at the end of a newscast, but how much more significant is it to take a picture of somebody or write a story about somebody who reflects us, seemingly ordinary people who do some extraordinary things that affects so many lives but are too busy to tweet and tell us about it.

Bobby Rettew: You have a tremendous patience that I think to me is … only journalists, many journalists have learned this patience, is to know when to sit and let the moments happen in front of you and be prepared for those moments. How long did it take to get to the place where, “Okay, I got the interview. I got what I need,” and run out the door ’cause you gotta produce it and get it out and do this stuff. When did you start really feeling the patience was yielding those really powerful moments because those moments are so important? Those are the, to your point, are the things that really bring us alive when we watch them? Was that something that you learned over time or is that something that has always been natural to you in the course of your career?

Bob Dotson: I think it’s something we all can learn very easily because when you stop to think about it, it’s just as important to figure out what doesn’t work and what’s terrible as what does work. So it’s great to find mentors and to follow their lead and do what they do and try to be at that level.

It’s also important to look around you day by day and say, “Well that damn thing didn’t work. That was terrible,” and I’ll tell you … to answer your question. This was the start of it. There was a huge fire in Kentucky at a dance club and a number of people were killed and one woman who was one of the last people out, who had struggle over her friends and they’re all trying to get out the dang door, she’s going on and on about that and I’ve got her on camera and I’m thinking, “Boy, here’s the moment,” because suddenly we’re all at that door and we’re all trying to figure out who do we get out and that sort of thing and a field producer walks up behind me. A field producer is a person who helps with all the logistics and sometimes writes the stories and he just makes sure everything happens. I won’t tell the name because you’ll hear what he did.

Well right in the middle of this … he’s listened to it for a few minutes and everybody in the room knew that this was like gold and he leans in when this woman paused to sob or something and he says, “Now you’re 38 years old, right?” And I went, “Holy Jesus.” This is a man that was more concerned about facts at that point, like you couldn’t have asked her that at the end when you’re going back to the car?

So I learned from something that was terrible that I would never interrupt the moment. Once you tee it up and it’s happening and your fortunate enough to have your camera running or your phone going whatever, just to be able to recognize what works and what doesn’t and what should be tampered with and what shouldn’t, that’s important too.

Bobby Rettew: You’re career is something that I think … and the way that you approach storytelling is something that transcends, to your point earlier, any type of media and to your point, we live in this era of fast video, tweeting, Facebook posts, Instagram, all those things. We also live in a medium where it’s all about different types of eyeballs consuming our content, but moments don’t change, right? They’re the same regardless of the medium. How have you used your news background and your storytelling background to train the next round of storytellers because you teach? Talk about that experience of engaging young aspiring storytellers who use the medium at their fingertips on their phone.

Bob Dotson: Well, I point out a fact. We’ve all been watching a 30 second story that seems like about 10 years long and we’ve all had a favorite book or a movie that’s lasted a week-and-a-half, in the case of a book, that we hate to see it come to an end, and you touched on it. It’s because in both instances you either had moments or you did not and it doesn’t make any difference whether it’s a tweet or a documentary. It doesn’t make any difference if it’s just a line or two in a letter or whether it’s a book. The approach is the same. Storytelling. What makes your work stand out and accessible to ever larger and expanding group of people is if you focus in on the story.

So for instance in journalism most of students are taught who, what, when, where and why. If you can answer those questions you’ve done a good story, but I say also consider as a storyteller a different mantra. It’s very simple and I remembered it on every story and every book and every documentary I’ve ever done. Every story starts with, “Hey.” You get their attention. You don’t spend two chapters like James Michener had the luxury of doing 50 years ago talking about the techtonic plates moving back and forth in Alaska before you realize that there’s somebody dead in the valley. You gotta start with the dead person in the valley. You’ve got to get their attention.

The second thing that most people who are new to storytelling overlook is … Hey is the first. The second is you. This may be a story about a train derailment in New Delhi India, but this is why you should care in South Carolina. If you don’t link it to you, the reader, the viewer, the audience, they’re gonna click off mentally and they’re gonna do it fast than they ever have before. So this story is really not about the subject matter, it’s about how it affects you.

So hey, the second building block is you. The third building block is see, see what I found. Now usually these days what you found is not unique, everybody has found it, it’s been on the backs of taxicabs, it’s been on your phone, it’s been on the internet. So you’re not actually uncovering something brand new every day that you’re doing a story, but the see part of it is you connect the seemingly unconnected. Now you’ve done that because you’ve asked rule of three questions and you’ve let people fill the silence, so you have a deeper understanding, no matter how little time you have to prepare, you have a deeper understanding than anybody else who’s covering that story. So hey, you, see.

I think a good definition of that for any storyteller is show me things and tell me things I wouldn’t know even standing next to you. So a storyteller connects the seemingly unconnected and suddenly you realize, “Oh I’ve overlooked that ant crawling through the grass. I just saw an ant,” and this is where it fits into that story about me, about how it affects me.

So hey, you, see, and then the last one is so. So why should you care, and that’s the point of your story. If an audience doesn’t know why they should spend, and you notice they say, “I’m spending time watching TV,” or, “I’m spending time reading a book.” If they don’t understand why it’s important to spend their time with you, they’re not coming back.

So it’s a simple mantra. Even in a crowded fast-paced story day, I say, “Have I got my hey? What’s gonna get their attention?” And it may not be what I anticipated, but again, that’s a moment, that gets you into it. It could be a beautiful shot, it could be a piece of sound, it sound be a startling revelation, it could by anything, but you gotta get them into the tent. Hey, you, where is it, how would I hook it up to people? Well I do that from the see, I start to connect the seemingly unconnected and then I pound home at the end of it, so why should you care.

Bobby Rettew: You are awesome. I just love talking to you because I’m taking notes here from … I love the hey, you, see, so. It’s just so awesome and I feel like in the world that I work in and working with people in healthcare, working with people in foundations where we help them tell stories of ways that are beyond marketing and all those pieces that we try to expose them and I can’t wait to go get making it memorable, to read it.

For people outside of the television business, people that work in these other industries that they’re trying to communicate better, they’re trying to find ways to connect with people, how does making it memorable really translate and help them see storytelling in a way that impacts what they do in communications, regardless if it’s broadcast television or as journalist? Talk about how this translates in their world.

Bob Dotson: Well, there are a lot to textbooks that are very technical as you know. They’ll tell you the right kind of equipment to use and that sort of thing and you can get overwhelmed with that. It’s the difference between building a car and a driving it well. It’s important to do both but sometimes you’re so worn out by the time you get to the point where you’re driving it that you don’t really use it in the way that really works best.

Well that’s the same way with this book. About 15 years ago and I’ve recently updated it, I had a number of people come to me and said, “You know you’ve had these tips that I’ve heard all my life. Why don’t you put it in a short concise book that I can keep in my back pocket and every time I run into a situation I can go back and check it out?” So yes, it’s written originally for people in television news ’cause 15 years ago everyone was in television news, but when I rewrote it and it came out in 2015, it was for the internet generation and for people that aren’t affected … not just doing news stories, but doing all kinds of things.

For your audience, for people who are struggling to get their message across, the tips are universal. We all have to use pictures these days in our presentations, we all have to use video, we all have to use words and we all have to use judicious editing. That hasn’t changed. I can imagine that the first caveman went down into the valley and watched dinosaur in a fight and came back and starting painting pictures on the wall and one cave would have been filled and the other caves, not so much. The difference is how do you tell the story, ‘Cause you had the same information. Here was this damn dinosaur falling off down in the valley. Well it’s the same here.

It doesn’t make any difference whether you’re trying to communicate about a medicine or anything else. The tips in the book are universal storytelling tips, and what I did and your listeners will be happy about this, it’s a very short book because I tried to write all the trips at a poetic length. Nobody’s got time to sit there and wade through a bunch of stuff that isn’t germane to what they’re doing, but in this case, I had all the tips. I took a script because I saved every version of every script for years.

After Benny Kent did that with the film back in those days and I had this unique ability of going to places where a lot of my competitors did not. I thought, Not only am I gonna keep the stories, but I’m gonna keep all the raw material.” So I ended up with so much stuff which is now down in an archive, but when I teach I say, “Okay, here’s where this script started and it’s just as mundane as you can imagine,” and then, “This is the time I had, these are the choices I had.”

So you would see not only in what you were trying to work on, but how it changed and why and bit by bit and then you can also click on the internet, NBC put these stories up as examples and they’re still up so you could see what the finished product looked like. So it really is not just a book about journalism at all. It’s a story about storytelling and don’t we all try to do that?

Bobby Rettew: Absolutely. You know I was sitting here thinking through reading the book and the tips that I would want to get out of it and how could I apply it and I want to go back and my final question, to bring this all around, is I really am gonna take away from me personally, is the idea of standing at the fence with your neighbor. Isn’t that what we really are doing? We’re trying to capture conversations that are happening at the fence because that’s what really people want. Do you feel that way and is that really what we’re trying to do is expose people to rich conversations that mean something to them?

Bob Dotson: Well, you know, on one side of our lives is the complex world and we barely make sense of most things every day. We don’t have time. It’s not like we’re smart or dumb, we just don’t have time to be experts in all the complications that happen and yet it always falls to us in our careers, in our daily life to explain the unexplainable. So going to the fence where so many generations before us got most of their information and leaning over and in people talk, trying to explain that complex subject and looking at your neighbor’s eye and you see they understand now because I’ve told them in terms that we all understand.

So for instance, say they’re putting in a new sewer in your neighborhood and everybody in town goes to the city council meeting and just has the debate, right, but if you were leaning over the fence and you were talking to your neighbor, Carol, you’d say, “Carol, it’s not gonna stick around here come next Thursday.” Boom. That pretty much sets it up and then she says, “What happened?” Then you can get into the other stuff, but the most important thing is to take that complex issue and make sure they get it because you said, “Hey, guess what? Hey, you.” This is about you, it’s not about some sewer discussion downtown. It’s about our neighborhood and as a matter of fact it may not stink by next Thursday.

That’s people talk and you see it over and over again, great comedians can do that, good storytellers like James Patterson, the mystery writer, anybody, good movie script writers and stuff like that and what you’re trying to do is to come away with a pitch that you can do that people will be humming for the next week, the next month, the rest of their life. They get it. I mean Abraham Lincoln didn’t say, “Four score and seven years ago … I mean 67.” No, he said, “Four score and seven … ” you know, our forefathers set forth … it’s the way you say it that people keep repeating like a great song that you heard the summer you were 16 and dating and could drive around in a car without your parents looking at you and it sticks with you when you’re 60. That’s what you’re trying to do, whether you’re making a press release or a media release or explaining a complicated story to someone who doesn’t think they understand or even care and suddenly they get it. That’s the thing we really need to foster.

I always tell people, my students, keep the storytelling flame burning. It’s not enough to just report a tweet, get a reaction to the tweet, back up the tweet, go find another tweet because that’s a paint by numbers and people burn out on paint by numbers, but if you have the same information and can develop that into a story that affects me, personally, then I want to keep coming back to that fence and listen to you.

Bobby Rettew: Ladies and gentlemen, the master storyteller, Mr. Bob Dotson. It is a pleasure and an honor to be on this podcast recording with you. I’ve learned so much from you over the years. I’ve learned so much today and by the way, my wife still talks about that dinner in Charlotte. She says she had such a wonderful time, so thank you, thank you, thank you so very much.

Bob Dotson: You know it’s tough for a 70-year-old to blush, but I am blushing.

Bobby Rettew: You are awesome and I appreciate it and I really thank you for taking the time. I know you’re retired, but I know you’re a busy man and I just appreciate it. So you have a wonderful rest of the week and thank you.

Bob Dotson: Thank you.

Bobby Rettew: Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and expiration. Most importantly, there are many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by TouchPoint media network, podcasts dedicated to discussion on all things healthcare.

Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing, and online patient engagement strategies, CIO, and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient and most importantly, the power of storytelling.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

In the last episode we explored handheld cameras; in this episode we are reviewing drones including two we use at Gray Digital Group made by DJI. We will review size, functionality, price, and use case for each drone. This is a great episode where we will have a guest, Gray Digital Group’s resident drone operator Mark Berry who is commercially licensed by the FAA.

Reed: And we are cohosts on a show called Touchpoint, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals, but health systems and physician practices.

Chris: In every episode, we’ll dive deep into a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the healthcare industry today.

Reed: And while you listen to this show, we would certainly love you to check out.

Chris: All you have to do a swing on over to touchpoint.health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touchpoint media network.

Reed: Alright, welcome to gear in review. I’m Reed Smith. Joined as always by Bobby Rettew.

Bobby: What’s up?

Reed: And we actually have a third special guest today. Mark Barre.

Mark: Hello.

Reed: Mark is a helicopter pilot. No, not really but close, close.

Bobby: He is our helicopter pilot.

Reed: He is. He is. He’s a government endorsed and regulated. I’m not sure if any of that’s true, but anyway, drone pilot and since you’ve downloaded this episode, you know, we’re going to talk a little bit about drones today. So we thought we’d have Mark in. Mark works with Bobby and I and is actually the one that is licensed to fly these things around for commercial purposes. So.

Bobby: Yup. And he smacks me down when I start flying them because he’s like, dude, you can’t do that.

Reed: Yeah it’s illegal

Mark: Even though you legally could.

Bobby: Yeah, that’s true.

Reed: Anyway. So I don’t know that anybody out there listening is necessarily wanting to do this for commercial purposes, but as a small disclaimer there is a license and licensure processes, you have to go through to be able to actually capture commercial footage so to speak. So we won’t get too terribly much into that. We may speak to it just a little bit, but wanted to talk about drones today. Wanted to talk about the couple of different trends that we have, why you might want one, what you might do with it and a little kind of the in’s and out’s

Bobby: Yeah. So here at Gray from a content collection standpoint, we integrate drones and we have two drones that we use. One is the DJI, we like DJI product. The DJI Phantom three advanced, which and then also the DJI Mavic pro. Both of them are two different sizes of types of drones. They … the phantom three is not as compact. It’s a little bit bigger drone. It’s not the big ones that you see, but it’s a good sized drone. It has a 2.7 K camera on it, which means that almost shoots 4K, so it’s halfway in between hd quality and 4K imagery. And then the DJI Mavic pro is a … has a 4K sensor on it. Great kit, great drones, a lot of fun to use.

Reed: Okay. So for those considering a drone, what are some of those I guess a qualifying points that you would want to look at when purchasing a drone? What are some considerations?

Mark: Well, in my opinion, it really just depends on what you’re going to be using the drone for. If you’re going to go to a parade and just capture good aerial footage any drone would really do, but I really think the Mavic pro is probably the best all around drone for the consumer and prosumer just because it’s amazing quality. It’s easy to operate, easy to learn and obviously if you’re going to fly commercially, you’ll have to take the pilot’s test. But I think, I mean that’s not too difficult. So.

Reed: Yeah. And so for most organizations that are wanting to capture their own content that probably nullifies some of that but again, I’m not going to weigh in on that deal. You need to go research that yourself.

Mark: Yeah.

Reed: But the Mavic pro is a little more compact. It’s a little easier to carry around, right?

Bobby: Yeah and I think what’s interesting about that and what we mean by compact is by packing it and carrying it somewhere. So you got all the batteries, you’ve got all the stuff that goes with it. For the Phantom, you need a big backpack, like literally a backpack. It’s like a checked item for an airplane. Whereas the Mavic pro folds up into probably, maybe a six by four little case.

Mark: Your Mac book is bigger.

Bobby: Yeah.

Reed: Yeah.

Bobby: Mac Book is bigger.

Reed: I mean it’s the size of like a women’s, like a small clutch or small purse or something like that.

Bobby: Yes and the reason why we have both of those is we travel so much.

Reed: I don’t know why I know the size of a clutch, but …

Bobby: That is kind of strange.

Reed: Maybe we’ll come back to that.

Bobby: Yeah we’ll come back to that. We travel all the time and so we had to go to Haiti a second time to shoot a video and to get through customs we wanted to scale down the size of packaging that we had and so the drone was … this drone shot a better image and we can compact it so small we could put it in a suitcase. Whereas the Phantom three had to be its own check bag.

Reed: Okay.

Mark: You know, we got the Phantom three so early on and it really helped us get our feet wet with the drones and learn how to fly them. But really and truly, if we’re honest, there’s really no reason to have a Phantom three. The Mavic pro does everything the Phantom three does and better and it’s more compact.

Reed: Yep. So okay, I’ve got a question. So I have the original Phantom.

Bobby: Nice.

Reed: With a custom made like rubber tub that I carried around with like nine batteries, you know and that whole deal and it has the original go pro strapped to the bottom.

Bobby: Nice.

Mark: Oh.

Reed: So this is like shooting film pretty much everything from aerial. But alright, so do all drones come with a camera on them now? Now I’m not talking about the toy stuff, but like from a DJI? If I go out there and I buy a drone do they all come with a camera now?

Bobby: Yes.

Mark: As far as I know they all come with their own built in camera.

Reed: Okay and how, well how is that video captured and …

Bobby: So they’re all captured on SD cards.

Reed: Okay.

Bobby: And what is interesting is the way that DJI has built all these product lines where we talked earlier about the Osmo, where you can take the camera off the Osmo and put it on a drone, the aspire.

Reed: Yeah, yeah okay.

Bobby: And then the big one that they have that when you put cinematic cameras on, can use our gimbal, our Ronan gimbal and attach it to the bottom of the drone to shoot big red cameras, big Canon cameras.

Reed: Yeah.

Bobby: Film related. These, the prosumer size, the medium sized size already have cameras on the bottom, have card … you put the card inside the camera and it records into that card and it also, it can record into the remote or the phone as well.

Mark: Yeah you can monitor from the phone. It’s pretty cool.

Reed: Okay. So you’ve got, you have the remote that you’re holding to physically fly the drone around for those that haven’t done it, right? It’s the little joysticks or what have you and it has a bracket, if you will, to hold a phone or an IPad or something like that to monitor what you’re filming is that a fair?

Mark: Yeah. Some brands of drones actually come with their own monitor built in.

Reed: Okay.

Mark: The mainstream DGI drones usually leverage an Iphone to monitor whatever it is you may be filming and it works really well.

Bobby: Yeah, for me, I just have to set my original Go pro to take a picture every five seconds. I just fly around a whole bunch [crosstalk 00:07:54]

Mark: … good stuff.

Bobby: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Reed: So tell me real quick one of the great options of using your phone as the app built in, the DJI app, which kind of gives you some options like automatic landing, you can set certain points to make it fly automatically. Talk a little bit about that, about both of these drones allow you to do that.

Mark: Yeah, well if you use the DJI go pro or not the go pro but the DJI go app on your Iphone to monitor the flight, you can set what you were talking about way points to have automatic flight and most people are using that are like farmers who are wanting a good, you know, aerial view of their crops but it, you know, you could get creative with it and use it in other ways. Monitoring the flight. You can circle a certain subject, you can set it to circle a certain subject.

Reed: Oh wow.

Mark: Some drones actually have touch screen now where you can tap on the screen and it flies to the object.

Reed: Wow.

Mark: Yeah. Some of these features are kind of gimmicky, but some of them were pretty practical as well.

Reed: Well, if you think what most hospital marketing folks are going to be concerned with is aerial footage of a brick and mortar locations probably, right? So they want the really pretty aerial picture of this new facility they built on the side of a lake or whatever. You know, you’ve got the different clinics and urgent care centers and things like that they’re building, plus they’ve got the big flagship hospital and they’re probably going to integrate B roll footage into something, some other project, right? And so this is a neat way to do that. Now I would say, you know, other interesting use cases are employee events, you know. So you’ve got the fish fry, you’ve got the local parade, you’ve got, you know, those types of things that are happening, you know, outside. It’d be a little tight, probably to fly this around inside, I don’t know. There’s a few hospitals have pretty large atriums and foyers that I guess you could.

Bobby: We’ve flown it inside before haven’t we?

Mark: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah and to your point about the employee events and things like that, one thing that people don’t really think about when they think about leveraging a drone is photography. Drones actually have the ability to take still photography and you know, some people say, well I can just take a screenshot from the video. Well, yeah you could, but the still photography from the drone is usually amazing quality photography …

Reed: Okay.

Mark: Here so he knows what the dimensions are on photos, but they’re usually a lot bigger than …

Bobby: They are and it captures raw images so you can really do some good adjustments, color correction built into that image.

Reed: So not to get too technical here, but are there some basic categories of drones so to speak? I mean, what we’ve mentioned to what DJI has for example …

Bobby: Right.

Reed: But you’ve talked about some of the larger ones where you’re fixing, you know, other gimbals and you’re pulling cameras off of other pieces of equipment like his handheld gimbals and some things like that. What … where, you know, somebody’s interested in this type of a thing and that’s mainly what they’re trying to do. Photography, some aerial photos, photographs and video, B roll photography and things like that. What are some of those kind of break points when you’re looking at these?

Mark: I mean, there is a very consumer drone out by DJI called the Spark. It’s really inexpensive. It’s … I would say it’s probably $300 I think I need to go look to be sure, but it is a scaled down version of the Mavic pro and it can fit in the palm of your hand and it really allows you to get really high quality images from a really good app. And the entry price is really inexpensive.

Bobby: Yeah. So I’m looking here, it looks like on the DGI official store, I see $279.

Mark: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobby: No, I’m sorry, that’s a refurbished unit. So yes, about $300 or so used, yeah. And these drones do great beyond just being drones too. We think about high end production where they’re bringing in these large lifts and different pieces. Talk a little bit about Mark, how we’ve used the drone in a different way other than just aerial’s. We’ve done special shots and moves that many of the video producers inside health systems can use to make their videos look really good.

Mark: Yeah. Well, real quick, I just want to say first of all, DJI is a business. So they’re always going to be coming out with new drones with new features and that’s why I said what I said earlier when deciding on what kind of drone to get it’s best to just focus on what you want to do and then backtrack from that. Now to your question, my favorite thing about utilizing drones is how they can be used to replace traditional video tools. We’ve used drones to mimic the movements of gimbals and jibs and dollies. I mean, these traditional tools were time extensive, expensive, and the drone can produce the exact same shot for a fraction of the cost and you’re only using one tool.

Bobby: And honestly, just to take your point one step further, when people start talking about do I really want to spend $1,200 bucks on a drone? That’s how much it costs when I shot aerial footage out of a helicopter per hour to run a helicopter with a rig, an HD rig in it. It was $1,200 bucks an hour. So put that in perspective these drones provide a very small capital expense for a large system that you can use over a longer period of time to get amazing footage.

Mark: Yeah. If you add up the cost of dolly tracks a jib or jib attachments, helicopter hours, doesn’t look so expensive.

Bobby: Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. So these are very cool that they’re becoming easier and easier to fly. This is not the toy store helicopter or even drone for that matter. I mean there’s some out there that will even follow you around and I mean, there’s all kinds of crazy stuff now and so they’re not terribly hard to fly. It’s a little bit getting used to and you kind of get, you know, figure out what you’re trying to accomplish. But great ways to capture additional content and additional footage. So we’ve talked a lot about DJI, for those that want to go out there and look, obviously you can go to DJI’s website and look at the different drones that they have, ranging anywhere from three to $400 up to five grand.

Mark: Yeah.

Bobby: You know, more than you want to spend probably.

Reed: Are there other brands people should look into or consider? I know DJI is probably somewhat of a leader in this space as far as variety goes. Anything else come to mind?

Bobby: Go pro has their own drone. What’s some other ones Mark?

Mark: There’s several, but you know, I stick with DJI just because it’s a safe choice, it’s a reliable choice and some of the brands out there, it really is hit or miss. I mean, I’ve seen some that had excellent marketing, but you put the drone in the air and it can’t give you a stable image. So, you know, I’m not saying DJI is the one and only brand.

Bobby: Sure.

Mark: There’s great brands out there, but it is hit or miss. With DJI is a pretty reliable choice at this point.

Reed: Very good. Well, that’s what we use and have a couple of and obviously we’ve talked about the handheld gimbals and some things like that and so anyway, great way to capture some really cool footage and may save you some money even on the production side of things, even if you’re using an external company to produce some stuff. If you’re able to provide some B roll, just a great way to do that. Obviously a great way to produce some social content as well. So …

Bobby: Yeah, and these drones, the app’s built in just FYI, can hook to your Facebook account and you can do Facebook live out of these drones.

Reed: Oh Wow. Very cool. Okay. That’s a very interesting idea and, you know, could play into some potential content marketing strategies and some things like that. So. Well, very cool. Be sure to visit us online touchpoint of health, learn more about this show and others for Reed Smith, Bobby [inaudible 00:16:24] and Mark Barry, appreciate you listening and we’ll talk to you next time.

Bobby: Thanks. See ya.

Mark: Later.

Reed: This show is made possible in part by the social health institute. Through research and partnerships with healthcare organizations around the country the social health institute explores new and innovative ways for hospitals, healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more about the social health institute, visit them online at socialhealthinstitute.com. That’s socialhealthinstitute.com. This has been a Touchpoint media production. To learn more about this show and others like it, please visit us online at touchpoint.health.

Many people have asked how we captured this shot, and yes there was a drone involved and it was hard to pull off. I am sure there are many drone ninja operators out there that would laugh over this explanation, but it was a tough shot to get.

Basically we had only thirty minutes to capture that shot each day during sunrise. It took us three days to finally get the right shot and the right moment.

Lighting
We were using the sun rise coming up from over the opposing mountain to light the room, specifically to supplement the battery powered LED lights we had in the room. We could not depend on the AC power in Haiti to power lights It was sketchy that week and the the amount of light needed to fill the room had to somewhat match the background surrounding the building, revealing at the end of the shot.

You can see in the above image the in reverse view from the porch and how the sun creeps over the mountains. We had to capture the shot at first light before the sun actually emerged over the mountain top. Once it pops over the mountains, it is too harsh and matching the background of the building an inside the room was not possible.

Navigating The Drone
This was tough because it was a tight fit from the door, through the over hang and railing and out to reveal the building. The building was concrete throwing off the GPS navigation, which helps us hold the drone steady. We also had to capture the shot somewhat blind because we physically had to be removed from the porch. This is because we did not want to be captured in the video operating the drone. But, we needed to watch the drone pull backwards from the door, through the small opening on the porch, and out over the mountain.

Mark was flying the drone and I was spotting, telling him if his movement was going to clear the opening. Also…we had to position the drone to hover when he was getting out of the bed in a way it did not cast a shadow on the wall, then we could pull backwards out through the building. There was a small shadow cast on the wall from the drone that we ended up removing in post.

Only One Drone Shot
We were very intentional not to use any other drone shots in this piece because we did not want to portray that we were using a drone because we could. We only use drone shots in these types of video narratives only if it calls for the shot and the appropriate movement to reveal a portion of the narrative. This was the first big piece we produced for the Dean of Engineering, so we had to prove we could travel to another country and come back with something that would wow all leadership at Clemson.

After our first scouting trip, I re-wrote the narrative to have this opening reveal shot to make a huge statement; we are not in Clemson producing a set of branded Clemson landscapes…we were in another country showcasing a story of a Clemson engineer country solving world problems.

Travel – Portability
During our initial our scouting trip to Haiti, we took a larger drone to capture pre-production shots and planning content. We realized that going through their airport and immigration process, large cases that look like camera gear attracted LOTS of attention. We needed to get out the airport quickly, out of Port-Au-Prince quickly, and on a long bus ride up to the top of the mountain. So where we returned for the actual production, we packed light with very portable cameras, portable gimbals, lots of batteries, and a portable drone. We used the DJI Mavic Pro for this shot. It captured a great 4K image with enough bit depth to color grade into our 1080p project.

Becky Callaham is the executive director of Safe Harbor, a domestic violence organization that serves the upstate of South Carolina. Safe Harbor’s mission is to provide a continuum of services for victims of domestic violence and their children, as well as to eliminate the cultural acceptance of domestic violence through prevention, education and a coordinated community response.

I met Becky early 2011 as Safe Harbor began embarking on a new journey; to tell their story and the many stories of domestic violence survivors. In that same year of 2011, South Carolina had the highest rate of women murdered by men in the US, more than double the national average. In 2012, it had the second highest rate of women murdered by men; 71% of women killed by men in South Carolina were killed with a gun. On a single day in 2014, South Carolina domestic violence programs served 390 victims and domestic violence hotlines receive approximately 21,000 calls, an average of close to 15 calls every minute.

It was time to tell Safe Harbor’s story; not only survivor stories but also stories showcasing how Safe Harbor is truly impacting their community. There were interesting intersection emerging time and time again. What are the ethics associated with leveraging stories of domestic violence survivors as a means to fundraise; specifically in-order to expand services in the upstate of South Carolina. A conversation we continually examined and discussed during our time working together, a conversation that encouraged us to continue capturing and telling more and more stories.

Bobby Rettew:
Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute. Exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Becky Callaham:
The word that I would use now, instead of thinking about as a protective thing, now that I know more, is more of a responsibility.

Bobby Rettew:
Welcome to Intersection. I’m Bobby Rettew, storyteller.

Becky Callaham:
I am Becky Callaham, I’m the executive director of Safe Harbor and I lead an organization that provides prevention, intervention, and advocacy services for victims of domestic violence and their children, in the upstate of South Carolina.

Bobby Rettew:
Safe Harbor’s mission is to provide a continuum of services for victims of domestic violence and their children, as well as to eliminate the cultural acceptance of domestic violence through prevention, education, and a coordinated community response. I met Becky early 2011 as Safe Harbor began embarking on a new journey to tell their story and the many stories of domestic violence survivors. In that same year of 2011, South Carolina had the highest rate of women murdered by men in the US. More than double the national average. In 2012 it had the second highest rate of women murdered by men. 71% of women killed by men in South Carolina were killed with a gun. On a single day in 2014 South Carolina domestic violence programs served 390 victims and domestic violence hotlines received approximately 21,000 calls. An average of close to 15 calls every minute. It was time to tell Safe Harbor’s story.

Bobby Rettew:
Not only survivor stories, but also stories showcasing how Safe Harbor is truly impacting their community. There were interesting intersections emerging time and time again. What are the ethics associated with leveraging stories of domestic violence survivors as a means to fundraise? Specifically in order to expand services in the upstate of South Carolina. A conversation we continually examine and discuss during our time working together. A conversation that encouraged us to continue capturing and telling more and more stories.
Bobby Rettew: So Becky, I’ve been thinking about how you and I stated working together. Well your team, this team at Safe Harbor. And we have been doing this for a long time. What, about 10 years?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
Isn’t that kind of crazy?

Becky Callaham:
I think when we first met your wife was pregnant for the first time. So yeah, it’s been a while. Well probably way before that.

Bobby Rettew:
Could be.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
So, a little background, so basically for many years I have been working with Safe Harbor to help them tell their story through video and many other digital mediums. And Safe Harbor is located here in the upstate of South Carolina. Tell us a little bit about what you do in the upstate? It’s in very basic things that you help people with.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah. We have emergency shelter for victims of domestic violence and their children. We have three of them altogether. And in each location … We have 34 beds in Greenville, 20 beds in Anderson, and 16 beds in Oconee. It’s your basic, if somebody had to leave their home in the middle night due to domestic violence, they come into our shelter. We provide services for them, advocacy, safety planning, everything that they would need for probably a couple of months, and help them move beyond the abuse.

Becky Callaham:
We also have counseling for victims of domestic violence who just are anywhere from, I think I might need to talk to somebody about my relationship, all the way to, I need to leave and I need to develop a plan to do that, to, I’ve left and now I’m trying to figure out how to move forward with my life and I’m having a difficult time. We have transitional housing for folks who have left the abuse and we assist them with a little bit more safety net moving beyond and to help them get their footing in the word of independent living, and finding resources for jobs and daycare, and whatever comes with that, since they’re on their own for first time.

Becky Callaham:
And then on the other ends of our intervention services, we have a pretty significant prevention program. Where we have educators going to our middle schools and in our high schools and help youth understand how to have healthy relationships. And teach them those basic hard skills of what healthy relationships look like, and how to navigate that, and tips, and those kind of things. But also some of those soft skills of, the dance of what a healthy relationship looks like. What is our responsibility in the relationship? What is the other person’s responsibility? What does respect look like?

Becky Callaham:
And these youth are able to work together, kind of grapple with some of these issues that they may not have ever had conversations with. Which is interesting too, because you have these kids who are growing up where they have really great role models and parents who have respect for each other. And then you have kids who are coming from situations where they’ve had very chaotic lives, and they have horrible models for respect. And they can have these conversations together. And they’re having these conversations, it just that there’s not necessarily a facilitator to help kind of guide it, to where it’s a healthy end.

Becky Callaham:
Some of the conversations that they’re having, we know now, and the ideals and some of the things that youth are encouraging each other and using models of social media and role models that are really bending toward disrespect. And so some of these kids who have great role models are starting to look at, wait, well, you know what, this is kind of how it is now. This is how we act now. And maybe what my parents were doing and how they’ve been telling me is not necessarily true. And this kind of how …

Becky Callaham:
So to really have another voice in the room to kind of help them grapple with that and identify really what a respectful relationship looks like is our effort to start moving the needle in South Carolina, in our little corner of South Carolina, toward less domestic violence in the future and more respect in the future. And then on the other end of our prevention intervention is our advocacy and outreach in our communities. Really trying to strategically look at where influencers are in our communities. Such as our faith communities. Our systems who work with people who are in situations where domestic violence might occur.

Becky Callaham:
Which … department of social services, law enforcement, our judicial system, other helping agencies, and understanding that they come into contact with families. And how can we really work together to understand the prevalence of domestic violence altogether and have a common definition of it. And what are we going to do together to create a culture which is our mission statement. To create a culture where all people feel safe and respected in their relationships. And I think all of our systems or those people who come into contact … our community at large can agree that we would all like to have this. And it’s our responsibility together to do that, but how are we going to do that? So these are the things that we’re doing at Safe Harbor.

Bobby Rettew:
Which is an interesting conversation because I think … I want to dive back real quick because the mission five or six years ago was the same, but you’ve done so much in that amount of time to look at it so differently. Because you think about it, the early times when we started to work together, it was educating just people about domestic violence. This is what it is, and now it’s a bigger piece of the pie. And it’s kind of come at the same time of this big national conversation. How important has outreach been to telling the Safe Harbor story to the community at large, in order to really move the needle?

Becky Callaham:
You know, I think with any kind of social ill, if you will, you can talk about statistics all day long and talk about facts all day long, but the outreach that has done the most … had the most impact have been individual stories about people who’ve experienced it and understand that it’s not them, you know, which in domestic violence is really, really tricky.

Bobby Rettew:
Why is it tricky?

Becky Callaham:
Because it’s just such a hard thing to talk about, and address, and look at, and recognize it could be in your family. It could be your boss, your … the person sitting next to you in the Sunday school class, or your child’s teacher. And how are you going to address that? That’s tricky. So to understand that it really does have a face, and that it truly does affect every single one of those people. And it’s just icky. It’s just … We had somebody who was interested in potentially helping us raise some money, and she said, you know what, the two hardest things organizations to raise money for are issues related to mental health, and issues related to domestic violence. It’s just tough.

Bobby Rettew:
So let’s think about that for a second. When we first started working together, and we started thinking about what stories are we going to tell. We had lots of discussions about the what story are we going to tell? So I’d like to go back to some early times and thinking through where did we start? Was it just defining what it is and putting a face to it? And how did we begin that in your mind? I know how we did, but what … I kind of remember some of that.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah. I remember where we were, when we were first having these conversations. We were at Coffee Underground, and you were asking some really hard questions and a lot of hard follow up questions and I’d started … my hand started sweating a little bit, because you were getting in to some of the-

Bobby Rettew:
What questions? Do you remember?

Becky Callaham:
I don’t remember. But I just remember they weren’t the normal you know, what does a survivor of domestic violence look like? You were getting in … You were going in between the facts trying to get to the individual feelings. And so I remember feeling at this point, the confidentiality and the protection of victims of domestic violence that I had worked with for at that point maybe 10 years … yeah 10 years, was so prevalent in my mind that I did not want to … I didn’t want to disrespect anybody’s story or pimp them out to leverage an issue about domestic violence on the heels, or on the back of and individuals personal, horrible situation where their lives had been splayed open and make it worse on them. Does that make sense?

Bobby Rettew:
And I think we started seeing some of that in the very early stages with many of the victims. Because they were so willing to talk about it, but we were so worried about the ramifications of sharing those inner details.

Becky Callaham:
Exactly.

Bobby Rettew:
Let’s talk about those ramifications. And let’s talk about it in two different lenses. One is, we live in South Carolina, the upstate of South Carolina, where there is lots of different populations, lots of different socioeconomic backgrounds, and there’s also a massive stigma associated to domestic violence. It doesn’t happen to me. I’m a white person that goes to church and does good things and we just don’t talk about that publicly. Do you think that was one of the factors we had to work through? Is to figure out who were the people we’re going to ask, and how do we not enable the stigma in the community by just displaying any domestic violence story?

Becky Callaham:
Right. So, because … And I guess that’s the struggle too. Because domestic violence is so complex and to use somebody’s story and have them be the poster child for a very, very complex and demeaning, horrible situation in their life is tough, is really, really tough. And to try to figure out, alright, you know having that person tell their story and then understanding that whoever’s going to be listening to that, what are they going to take from that, and understand, oh, this is what domestic violence looks like. We’re using a story to educate. And so I felt a … We at Safe Harbor felt a responsibility to say, alright, now that there’s this … Are we responsible for what the listener is going to be taking from that? And then creating more stigma. First of all, honestly, the most important thing that we are concerned about is the safety of the individual telling the story.

Bobby Rettew:
Why so?

Becky Callaham:
Because domestic violence is just such a dangerous thing. If somebody is telling their story and if they’re in a situation where their abuser knows that they are talking about them, and that can make it more dangerous for them, or their children. And that’s one of the many reasons why folks just rarely talk about it to begin with. It’s like, you know, I can’t even tell my story because this person’s still in the community. And I just need to quietly just move on with my life. At that point, I guess it felt like we were protecting them.

Bobby Rettew:
Right, well and let’s even back it up a little bit to. Is that … If I understand correctly and I’ve gotten to know Safe Harbor and domestic violence correctly, it’s hard to get women to leave. To say, I admit that somethings going on in my house, and now I’m going to leave. I’m going to get out of this situation. So there’s a whole process that they have gone through to get to the point to actually leave the bad situation. And then they come into Safe Harbor services. They spend time at the shelter, they get their lives in a place where they can feel comfortable to find a new safe environment. And then they’ve gone through this process and like, oh by the way, can you tell your story? I mean, that process just to leave has probably taken maybe five or six or 15 or 20 years just to get out of there. And then we want to leverage it?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobby Rettew:
That’s a huge conversation to have.

Becky Callaham:
Well and so if you’re thinking about other situations where you have people telling their stories, to leverage a cause for instance. The issue of domestic violence is just so personal. It happens with the person you love the most, and it happens … From the stories that I had been honored to even know when I’ve been working with survivors. These are the most demeaning, hard, vile … Like I said, they’re every bit of their vulnerabilities were splayed open and annihilated by somebody who they loved the most. And who wants to relive that?

Bobby Rettew:
Right. Well let’s go back to the first thing we ever created, which was the Safe Harbor story. And it was created for fundraising.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobby Rettew:
It’s sole purpose was to go out and to have people at community events, tell them the story, and then make an ask, and some engagement. And so a couple things kind of came out of that. Number one is we had a lot of discussion, do we feel comfortable asking certain people to tell their story so we can go fundraise? That was hard. And we had a lot of debate over it.

Becky Callaham:
We felt more comfortable in this place where, if we did just basic … Fundraising and outreach are two different things. And so an outreach story is where you go and you may have somebody’s story and you talk about an issue and you just put it out there. That’s kind of what we were doing prior to you coming on board, in a limited way. And we were … We felt like that was as much as we could do. Because the more outreach … And still true. The more outreach you’re doing in the community, people are aware of your organization, they’re aware of your cause and if they intrinsically feel like, that they want to give to an organization, then they’re going to help support your organization. And we had already reaped some benefits of that. And that felt more comfortable to us, rather than using somebody’s story. Like I said, it felt like pimping somebody out in order to get money for an organization to have money for additional services. So it felt-

Bobby Rettew:
It felt awkward.

Becky Callaham:
It was very awkward.

Bobby Rettew:
It was awkward at first. And I think we had a lot of really interesting debates about who we should pick to tell their story. The one thing that I have to admit that I’ve never told you this, is I actually wondered if I was the right person to do this.

Becky Callaham:
Really?

Bobby Rettew:
Mainly because, why is a male telling the story of a domestic violence victim in an arena that … Can a male truly tell that story? And I grappled with that a lot. And I was … I even worried in some of those early discussions that I pushed too far because I’m a male. You know, and it was a tough balance to walk away from. I remember leaving those discussions doing a lot of, really, some soul searching. Making sure I was the right person.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
Now a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection, Touchpoint Media. A collection of podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the E-patient, and most importantly the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health. That is touchpoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew:
What were some of the first feedback that you got once we started showing some of those first stories?

Becky Callaham:
From?

Bobby Rettew:
From the community at large? You know, obviously the individuals that were in the story, but you know, from the people that were potential donors, outreach in general? What was some of the feedback that you got when you started pushing that stuff?

Becky Callaham:
Well, it was overwhelmingly positive from everybody. Overwhelmingly positive. And so the people that we asked and were willing to tell their story, felt very empowered, they said by sharing their story. And being able to tell the story of this was then and this is now, felt very empowering is the only word I guess I can come up with. And they felt like-

Bobby Rettew:
It was kind of therapy for them.

Becky Callaham:
It was, it was. I mean they’d already … Most of them had already gone through our therapy with us. But it was very therapeutic to be able to sit down and talk about it and say wow, there was this, and here is where things are now. Yeah, this is great. And I think that the whole idea of perhaps maybe, my story might help somebody else, was also a very positive experience for survivors.

Bobby Rettew:
And it’s really brave of them if you think about it. So let’s paint the picture real quick.

Becky Callaham:
Oh yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
You know, this isn’t walking in and just talking. This is, we’ve agreed to sit down and have us tell your story. We’re going to bring a big cameral, a bunch of lights. We’re going to hang a microphone over top of you. And we’re going to shine all this stuff. We’re going to ask very tough questions and oh, by the way, we want you to be completely transparent, and be emotional. With all this production stuff around you. And then it was the moment that … It was almost like they just turned on. And didn’t have to ask questions. It was one question and boom, it was just like where do we shut them off?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah, that’s why I can continue to do this work every day, honestly. It is because of the bravery and the strength of being able to know that you’ve got … I mean I just can’t imagine. Like you said that they were going trough this every single day, and describing this. And the whole idea of, this was your life and these terrible, just things that can cause you to … It’s crazy making. You know to cause you to really question everything that you know about the world. And make you feel so horrible. And the fact that the resilience part of it … I’m not going to just put it behind me and go on about my life. I’m going to tell strangers about this. You know what’s interesting too, and again that’s where I recognize it’s not my responsibility to be protective.

Becky Callaham:
That most of them would say either subtly or after the fact, or even in the time of their interview process. If this is a fundraising thing … Actually that was the thing. It was like we’re okay to do it for outreach but we don’t want our survivors to ask for money. And we had one survivor who said, I need you to invest in services like Safe Harbor, because of my story. And because of the fact that there are other people who are experiencing this. And you need to know my story, so you can understand that services like Safe Harbor need the resources to help those people who are not coming forward quite yet, who will be the next person who is that child in the shelter, I think is what she said.

Bobby Rettew:
What is your reaction to the MeToo campaign? And how did it align with y’all’s efforts to do the outreach? And how did it help you in any way rethink or reshape where you wanted to go?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah. It certainly did give validation to just the overall concept of what violence against women overall is about. And it’s about power and control. And so the whole MeToo movement specifically was mostly about sexual harassment, sexual assault. But the bravery of folks who are feeling more comfortable now, slowly but surely publicly telling stories about their experiences. And the reaction of … And I think that’s hopeful to me, the reaction of many people in our community that are saying “Wow. Oh, we had no idea it was happening. How was this so secret?” And then those of us who’ve been working in this field were saying, “It’s secret because of the power and control.” So it certainly did give validation. But it is quite limited to an easier … Maybe I’m biased, an easier … No, it’s hard. And I don’t want to put any … I don’t want to make it a competition, but discussing what’s going on in your home on a regular day to day basis with the person you love. We still haven’t gotten that far.

Bobby Rettew:
It’s hard.

Becky Callaham:
To be able to uncover the complexities, and how vicious and prevalent domestic violence is. You know, we’re certainly befitting from having these conversations about power and control in workplaces, and in relationships. So it’s still so tough and we’ve still got a long way to go.

Bobby Rettew:
But wouldn’t you say with that, that this whole notion that, y’all made a pretty interesting shift? We have done all this work to empower women to tell stories, because we need to empower women. Oh by the way, we probably need to start thinking about the men. And the call to men and … Talk about that shift, and why we had to start engaging men’s stories?

Becky Callaham:
That is what’s so hopeful to me. Is that when I went into this work 18 years ago, the questions that we were fielding were, what are the signs and symptoms of somebody who’s a victim of abuse? How do you pick her out? Why didn’t she leave? If she leaves, why doesn’t she stay gone? What did she do in order … What was here role in this? And all of these questions. And these questions were asked to us as an organization. Media would come to us and it was after a victim had been killed. So you’re looking at the onus of all the responsibility is on the victim. And situations where a victim does call for help, a lot of the questions that were being asked were, what did you do? And then a lot of the responsibility-

Bobby Rettew:
Asking the women like she … What did you do to make this happen? What was-

Becky Callaham:
It wasn’t that obviously but it was very subtle.

Bobby Rettew:
It was put on the woman.

Becky Callaham:
It was absolutely. In any other situation if you think about any other … Barring addiction maybe. In any other situation we are not every going to put the onus of a problem on the victim of the situation. Except for domestic violence.

Bobby Rettew:
And it was very apparent. Right. But it was very apparent that it’s like you did something, you wore a short skirt, you were mean, you spoke up, you didn’t do the dishes, you didn’t do the … It was you, you, you, you, woman, woman.

Becky Callaham:
You were nagging, nagging, nagging. So and in all of our systems, so there’s where we were. So, we have moved forward and had more complex conversations.

Bobby Rettew:
Let’s talk about that. What is … You started something called the man upstate?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
Talk about that and what was that shift to make that happen?

Becky Callaham:
Nationwide, there were some folks who were saying, “Gosh, the people who are talking about domestic violence are only women.” And women are leading these organizations. Survivors are talking about their stories and … What’s the percentage of domestic violence where women are the victims? Eighty-five, eighty-seven something like, percent, where victims are women. If the problem is that women are victims and the reality is that most guys are good guys. Why aren’t we getting them to the table to help them, help us work together in addressing the issue of domestic violence? And of course at that point it was like, eureka. And that was probably what, 10 years ago? Nine years, eight years ago? And so yeah, ManUpstate was our initiative to really get men to the table to say, alright, what is the responsibility of men to hold each other accountable for providing respect in relationships?

Bobby Rettew:
And Tony Porter in a call to men really helped us think about that didn’t he?

Becky Callaham:
He did.

Bobby Rettew:
I kind of want to go to some of his first, and he talks about the man box. And I remember the man box conversation, and he talks about the percentages. And then he looks in the room and he says, where are all the good men? Why are you not standing up and calling down the guy that’s doing the cat call?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
And then from that we started telling stories and finding the good men in the community and letting them tell their story. When we started capturing those stories of good men, what did that do to you? What did that make you think and start looking at? When you started hearing those stories coming from them?

Becky Callaham:
You know, once again, once again, I had underestimated the capacity for somebody else to be engaged and care about and want to tell a story from their point of view together. And that we aren’t alone in this. Doing domestic violence work, a lot of times those of us who’ve been in human service work, let’s just be honest. A lot of us feel like we’re alone in this, and that we have to carry this torch. And so until we really give other people an opportunity to come alongside us, including survivors who want to … Some of them want to be part of changing things. And men who were … they wanted to know what to do to help.

Becky Callaham:
And helping us to figure out what does that look like? And so, yeah, I underestimated and how do we come to our communities in a way that we can identify where their roles are to help us not just respond. And I think that’s the thing. We typically looked at, how do you respond to issues of domestic violence? But more than that, deeper than that. How are we creating this … Calling each other out. Men calling each other out when there’s cat calling. How do we know that that’s preventing-

Bobby Rettew:
That’s something new.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah, exactly. How do we know that that’s preventing something from happening in the future? How do we know that … So that is-

Bobby Rettew:
But it had to happen. Because then we saw what’s his name from the NFL in the video where inside the elevator … And it put on a national stage-

Becky Callaham:
Ray Rice.

Bobby Rettew:
Ray Rice. And that was the first time the nation had seen someone swing and hit someone. And I remember being in this office right after that happened. And I was taken back by it.

Becky Callaham:
Why?

Bobby Rettew:
Because I’d never seen that before. I’d never seen in real person, someone slugging and hitting another woman like that. In that way, that manner. And the weird dynamic that came out of that.

Becky Callaham:
What hit me the most was … I can imagine that. I haven’t … Actually I don’t think I’ve ever seen it myself. But that wasn’t … What I think told the bigger story to me in that video, was him dragging her out. That was the-

Bobby Rettew:
Not the hitting, but it was the dragging.

Becky Callaham:
The hitting was horrible, I mean it was horrible. I mean we know that, but the complete ownership of her unconscious body. And him just pulling her out like she was not even human was the story that it told me.

Bobby Rettew:
And the commitment that men have to be a part of the conversation.

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
Like did it almost say, we’ve got to dive even more to this?

Becky Callaham:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
And what do you think was the feedback from the men that said, I want to start being a part of this? Like I know it’s hard to galvanize men, because men want action. They want steps to do things, and it’s hard for us to figure it out. But that movement was good, but still it’s a challenging movement.

Becky Callaham:
It’s tough. It’s tough to get some traction. It’s been tough for us to get traction. While we know that it’s the most important thing and the conversations we’re having are more complex, and more holding the abuser accountable at this point. And having guys be a part of that. I think what we’re seeing, just in our history, is that we have a lot of movement, a lot of momentum there for a while. And it got really tough. And so we just kind of … It’s been stalled for a minute. And that’s how things are too, I mean domestic violence is really not the sexy topic that it was about three or four years ago in South Carolina. So there are other things that have been taking its place. But it continues to go on just as much.

Bobby Rettew:
And the numbers are still there.

Becky Callaham:
The numbers are still there.

Bobby Rettew:
I mean what’s South Carolina in relation to the nations still?

Becky Callaham:
We’re number five in the nation now.

Bobby Rettew:
What we were a few years ago?

Becky Callaham:
We were number one, number two, number three. But still we’re number five in the nation of women killed by men. And at any given year, our movement could be back to number one. I still feel a enormous responsibility and honor of the fact that there are people who trust our organization and the people in this organization to hold with them the most horrible things that have ever happened in their lives. And the confusion of it happening with the person that they love the most. But I think that the word that we were using before … And maybe we weren’t even using that word. But the word that I would us now instead of thinking about it as a protective thing. Now that I know more, is more of a responsibility.

Becky Callaham:
And I still feel a enormous responsibility. But it’s not protection anymore. Because especially the very first interviews that you did, I recognize that if somebody wants, and feels comfortable telling their story, then that’s up to … That’s their story. And it’s really not … It’s very patronizing of me to feel like I am protecting them from something that I’m fearing that is going to hurt them or make them feel uncomfortable as opposed to giving them a choice and allowing them to choose for themselves. But also holding the responsibility as knowing that I am going to be in the end responsible for any kind of content or any kind of negative repercussions that might occur as we tell their story. And to be very respectful just maintain the safety and the emotional safety as well as their actual physical safety. Keep that in the forefront of our minds.

Bobby Rettew:
Becky Callaham. Thank you.

Becky Callaham:
Thanks Bobby.

Bobby Rettew:
Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touchpoint Media Network, podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Go to touchpoint.health for many other podcast exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO, technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health, that is touchpoint.health. Have a good day.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

In the last episode we explored handheld gimbals; in this episode we are reviewing small handheld cameras including two point and shoot cameras from Canon and a Sony mirrorless camera. We will review the form factor, size, image quality, and versatility for the content creators. We will talk features, functionality, and how much they cost.

Reed Smith: And we are co-hosts on a show called Touch Point, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals but health systems and physician practices.

Chris Boyer: In every episode we’ll dive deep into a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the healthcare industry today.

Reed Smith: While you listen to this show we would certainly love you to check out ours.

Chris Boyer: All you have to do is swing on over to touchpoint.health for more information, and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touch Point Media Network.

Reed Smith: Here we are at Gear in Review, back for another episode, Reed Smith, and Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew: What’s up?

Reed Smith: Again, recording from South Carolina, so this is becoming a regular habit. This is two in a row now. This is different yet, based on the fact, I guess, that we are reviewing gear it does help that I could see what you’re looking at.

Bobby Rettew: We got gear all over the table right now.

Reed Smith: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Today, we are actually going to talk about cameras, and not just any camera, and we’ll probably get to some other types, or form factors of cameras at some point. Most people, obviously, are familiar with camera phones on their smart phones, and that’s probably what a lot of people use. On the other end of the spectrum, I guess that’s fair to say, other end of the spectrum, you’ve got DSLRs, or digital SLR cameras. SLR cameras were the ones that people, if you think about it, had flashes on the top and you could could change the lens, and it was film based. Now, the digital is obviously the digital version of that type of a camera. But today we’re actually going to talk about something that kind of falls in the middle.

Bobby Rettew: A little bit in the middle, which is kind of cool.

Reed Smith: Sort of in the middle-

Bobby Rettew: Yeah.

Reed Smith: Maybe more towards the DSLR than a camera phone, so to speak. Not a true point and shoot camera per se-

Bobby Rettew: Right.

Reed Smith: … the one that has the little strap that you put around your wrist.

Bobby Rettew: Yes.

Reed Smith: Not that. How do you classify this type of a camera that we’re going to talk about?

Bobby Rettew: Okay. From a form factor standpoint, Canon started realizing that many professional photographers wanted something portable that was easy to grab and to take a picture, but necessarily didn’t want to have to deal with lenses but wanted the functionality of what they’re traditionally used to. Something quick and easy. There’s a couple pieces. You’ve got the really expensive professional DSLRs, then you’ve got the prosumer, you’ve got mirrorless cameras that don’t have the SLR, the single lens reflex. With a lens the reflex pops up, and exposes the sensor to the image.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: Then you’ve got a point and shoot. A point and shoot is essentially that mirrorless concept but it’s a little bit more compact. This is kind of in between that. I’ve really enjoyed these cameras, mainly because of their portability. You can put them in your pocket. They take really good pictures and they’re very functional. Anybody can pick them up and start shooting.

Reed Smith: Okay. All right. So before we get into who would this be good for, why would you want one and that type of thing, let’s talk about specifically which cameras we’re reviewing. You mentioned Canon.

Bobby Rettew: Yep. There’s three cameras we’re going to look at. First one is the Canon PowerShot G1 X Mark III, so it’s the third version of the G1 X, the Canon PowerShot G5 X, and then the Sony Alpha a6000 mirrorless camera. It comes with, you can put a lens on it and it comes with a 16 to 50mm f3.5 to 5.6.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: So it’s those three cameras. If you look it up on B&H Photo you can find them pretty quickly.

Reed Smith: Okay. Canon really likes to make long titles and names for their products-

Bobby Rettew: Yes, they do.

Reed Smith: … I’ve noticed. I keep wanting to make the Mark III, isn’t that a Lincoln?

Bobby Rettew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Reed Smith: Isn’t that a Town Car of some sort?

Bobby Rettew: I feel like I’m going to go driving. I’m going to be in some movie with something, you know?

Reed Smith: That’s right. That’s right. All right. So let’s start with the two Canon, because those are the true point and shoots-

Bobby Rettew: That’s correct.

Reed Smith: … out of the three that we’re going to talk about. With that said, what’s the difference in the G1 X Mark III and the G5 X?

Bobby Rettew: They’re both the same size. The G1 X has a bigger sensor, so it’s the sensor that typically you find in some of the prosumer cameras.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: The size of it’s pretty good and it has, it’s a CMOS sensor, which means that it has really good ability to collect really good light. The G5 X, even though it’s the same size form factor, the sensor is a lot smaller. So it really works harder to really make a better image. So a lot less real estate on the sensor to work with to capture an image.
Reed Smith: Okay. And these have fixed lenses?

Bobby Rettew: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Reed Smith: So you can’t change out lenses like you would on a traditional DSLR or something like that, right?

Bobby Rettew: No. You can’t. Yeah. You can’t change the lenses out on those two Canons. They are true point and shoot.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: Then you’ve got the Sony Alpha a6000. It also has the same size sensor as the G1 X Mark III. It’s the APS-C sensor, which is a small sensor, but it’s bigger than your point and shoot cameras.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: It does a really good job. And you can attach a lens to it.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: So you can switch the lenses out.

Reed Smith: Yeah. So you can switch lenses.

Bobby Rettew: Yep.

Reed Smith: This is comparable to probably some of the, I guess from a use case standpoint, and we’ll get into this, but maybe comparable to some of more of the prosumer DSLRs.

Bobby Rettew: Right. Right.

Reed Smith: So it’s something that you would look at, and maybe more even compare to some of those, but from a form factor standpoint-

Bobby Rettew: Right.

Reed Smith: … it’s about the same size, physical size as these Canons we’re talking about, and probably is used more like a point and shoot in a lot of cases.

Bobby Rettew: Right. Absolutely. I want to get past all the crazy jargon, because I’ve talked about sensor size and all that stuff. For most of the average person, they don’t think about that. To me, when I think about these cameras, what makes them so great is how well they can capture in low light settings. Most people-

Reed Smith: Why is that important?

Bobby Rettew: Well, you don’t want to use your flash. Most people don’t like to pop the flash up and blind someone.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: So all three of these cameras have the ability to work in low light settings-

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: … based on the lenses and the size of the sensor that’s built into them. Also, the other thing is each one of them has a different price point that hits different people’s budgets. So the G1 X is just about 1,100 bucks. The G5 X is about 700 and the Sony Alpha a6000 is about 550. So right there, you’re going to self-select where your budget is, based on what you want to buy.

Reed Smith: Right.

Bobby Rettew: If that makes sense.

Reed Smith: So all these have a battery that charges, I’m assuming.

Bobby Rettew: Yep.

Reed Smith: And you plug them in like you would your phone, for example, so you’re charging these for a period of time.

Bobby Rettew: Right. You’ve got, each one of them uses an SD card to capture the imagery. Each one of these has, I know that the two Canons have the built in wifi that connects to, if you have an iPhone or an Android device you can get the Canon app and it will connect.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: You can actually control the camera through that app and download the imagery into your phone.

Reed Smith: Very cool. Now, this may be a dumb question, but do these do video as well as still imagery?

Bobby Rettew: They sure do. That’s the one thing that the Canons I like is they can do 1080p, so they shoot HD content. We were looking around, a lot of new cameras, these point and shoots, are going to the 4K and so you really have to suck up financially to get that 4K video. But you can record video and you can drop it onto your phone.

Reed Smith: Okay. Very cool. Very cool. And then the big difference, I guess, if you’re just reading I guess a little bit about these three cameras, is that the Canon is mirrorless. Is there some advantage to that, or disadvantage to that? Is it just different?

Bobby Rettew: It’s just a different way. So when we say mirrorless, it means that when you take a picture on a DSLR, a professional camera, you hear the click.

Reed Smith: Right.

Bobby Rettew: That is the mirror popping up so that the image can come through the camera and hit the sensor.

Reed Smith: Oh, nice. Okay.

Bobby Rettew: So mirrorless means that you do not have that mirror popping up and as soon as you point, the image is going
to the sensor and you can capture. So you’re removing that motion, that mechanism.

Reed Smith: I wonder if they have it, the noise built in. Like you’ve got the electric cars that have the actual sound of an engine.

Bobby Rettew: Yep.

Reed Smith: It’s like you don’t know if you’re taking a picture or not unless you hear that click.

Bobby Rettew: Well, that’s funny you ask, because that’s one of the reasons why I like the more expensive Canon G1 X. It is the only one of all three cameras that has this high speed picture mode, that if you hold the shutter down-

Reed Smith: Like a burst?

Bobby Rettew: … it will do a burst. It literally does the mirror clicking sound. So it sounds like a full scale DSLR. That’s one of the major reasons I like that one. From an image standpoint, the G5 X has more real estate to let more light in through the lens and so when you take a picture in low light, it’s less grainy, whereas the more expensive one has a smaller area to let the light in and so one of the reasons why, even though it has less area to let light in and it’s a little bit more grainy, the picture quality is so much better on the bigger sensor from the G1 X.

Reed Smith: Sure. Okay. So who are these made for? Whether we’re talking about Canon or Sony, maybe those are a little bit different, but the point and shoot, and these are pretty high end point and shoot cameras-

Bobby Rettew: They are.

Reed Smith: What’s the use case?

Bobby Rettew: The use case is they cross the many spectrums. You can put it on completely automatic and anybody with very limited knowledge of the camera can take a picture and it looks really good. You can connect to wifi, put it on your phone and immediately convert that imagery over to a social outlet quickly which is perfect, because people want to take pictures and share immediately, which we are trying to debate whether we should use our phones or get a point and shoot, right?

Reed Smith: Right. Right.

Bobby Rettew: But any person can use those, the expert or the traditional person that knows how to use a camera, can take these cameras into fully manual mode and it’s almost, you have the same options and experience as you would with a full scale, professional DSLR. You can control your aperture, you can control your f-stop, you can control all those pieces, your ISO, complete control over it.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: So you can go completely professional, or completely automatic.

Reed Smith: So the pros and cons, let’s talk through a few of those. The pro of doing something like this is you have more control.

Bobby Rettew: You have more control-

Reed Smith: So you get just all, like you just mentioned, you can tweak and set and experiment and do all those types of things. You’re recording the imagery or the video onto removable media, so that’s, from a work flow process, maybe better for some. That could be a negative to some, too. I don’t know. Now, the wifi capability, I think that’s another pro because then it allows you to move that. Now, the negatives, in my mind, are it’s one more piece of equipment, right?

Bobby Rettew: Right.

Reed Smith: So it’s like really is it, am I creating that much better content because I have this versus my phone? We always say, or I’ve heard people say and I’ve heard it for so long I don’t even know who to attribute it to anymore, but the best camera you can have is the one that you have with you.

Bobby Rettew: That’s right.

Reed Smith: Right?

Bobby Rettew: Right.

Reed Smith: So with that said, it’s am I going to create better content with this?

Bobby Rettew: So here’s an answer to that is for hospital marketers are mainly the people that we work with the most, we’re not always outside taking pictures, right? We’re in some sort of closed setting where the lighting isn’t that great, so the difference you’re going to see with these cameras versus your phone is that low light is going to look better on these cameras than on your phone.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: It’s got a bigger image processor, it’s got the ability to do so much more with the image.

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: So, number one. Number two is that from a video standpoint, they’ve all got image stabilizers in them. So when you’re holding it and you’re moving around, it’s adjusting and it’s making it smooth-

Reed Smith: Okay.

Bobby Rettew: … where holding your iPhone, you’re going to see that shake.

Reed Smith: Yeah. And so, like we’ve talked about before, and people know about hand held gimbals and things like that, you start adding up all that additional equipment, you’re already carrying around something extra, you’re already investing additional dollars and so, talking about the low light, I can see how that is good for indoors where there’s no windows or potentially the community event that’s in the evening hours. Whatever it is, it just gives you more flexibility, so that’s really great.

Bobby Rettew: And here’s another thing that makes these very attractive is that many times we’re in an event, you just don’t want to hand your phone and tell someone to go take a bunch of pictures.

Reed Smith: Yeah.

Bobby Rettew: Like, “Where’d my phone go?”

Reed Smith: Yeah, exactly.

Bobby Rettew: You can hand someone the camera and go, “Go take some pictures for me,” instead of taking your phone away from you.

Reed Smith: Yeah, so it takes away the personalization piece of like I’m handing over my personal life to somebody and you can still use your phone. People text you, call, whatever it is, it’s not an interrupting what you’re trying to do from a photography or videography standpoint.

Bobby Rettew: It captures it on the card and if they want to just text you the image back real quick to post it on social, they can. It gives you that flexibility.

Reed Smith: Okay. Well, that’s the Canon PowerShot G1 X Mark III, the Canon PowerShot G5 X and the Sony Alpha a6000. We’ll have links in the show notes to all these. Another good episode, another good topic to cover. If you’ve got equipment or ideas or something you’d like us to talk about or review, please let us know.

Bobby Rettew: And one thing, real quick, to close us out. Many people want to figure out if they’d like spending this type of money for this type of equipment. Go rent it first, and many times the rental companies, I rented all these cameras from lensrental.com and it allowed me to use them for a couple days and if I chose to buy the camera, they deducted the rental fee off the amount and then I could buy it on the spot.

Reed Smith: That’s a great idea, and probably well worth the time and investment to find something that works for you because a lot of it is personal preference at the end of the day. Well, for Reed Smith, that’s Bobby Rettew. Visit us at touchpoint.health to learn more about this show and others, and we’ll see you next time. This show is made possible in part by the Social Health Institute. Through research and partnerships with health care organizations around the country, the Social Health Institute explores new and innovative ways for hospitals, health care organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more about the Social Health Institute, visit them online at socialhealthinstitute.com. That’s socialhealthinstitute.com. This has been a Touchpoint Media production. To learn more about this show and others like it, please visit us online at touchpoint.health.

Rep. Gary Clary was first elected to the South Carolina House of Representatives House District 3 seat in 2014. After practicing law in the private sector for 17 years Rep. Clary was elected as a Circuit Judge by the South Carolina General Assembly in 1992 and re-elected in 1997. He retired in September 2002 and re-entered the private sector to work as Assistant General Counsel of Extended Stay America, a Fortune 500 hotel company.

I first met Rep. Clary in 2013 where we both served on the Fort Hill Clemson Club Board. From that point on, he asked me to just call him Gary. We are both Clemson graduates and regardless of our age gap, we share a passion for our alma mater and public policy topics like domestic violence and even issue to move our state forward like the confederate flag.

Gary’s story has many intersections, but one I find most intriguing is his passion to listen. In the world of politics, this unique trait has served him well…a trait even us storytellers could learn to adopt as part of our own cultural DNA. This trait took him door to door, listening to his constituents, town halls, and even to the state house to co-author a bill removing the confederate flag from the South Carolina statehouse grounds.

Bobby Rettew:
Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute, exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and health care organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Gary Clary:
Whether you are in the court room or the general assembly, you have different ways that you try to reach people.

Bobby Rettew:
Welcome to Intersection. I’m Bobby Rettew, storyteller.

Gary Clary:
I’m Gary Clary, live here in Clemson, currently the state representative in the South Carolina House of Representatives for District 3, which consists of Clemson Central, Six Mile and Norris.

Bobby Rettew:
Rep. Gary Clary was first elected to the South Carolina House of Representatives House District 3 in 2014. After practicing law in the private sector for 17 years, Rep. Clary was elected as circuit judge by the South Carolina General Assembly in 1992 and re-elected in 1997. He retired in September 2002 and re-entered the private sector to work as assistant general counsel of Extended Stay America, a Fortune 500 hotel company. I first met Rep. Gary Clary in 2013 where we both served on the Fort Hill Clemson Club Board. From that point on, he asked me to just call him Gary. We are both Clemson graduates, and regardless of our age gap, we share a passion for our alma mater and public policy topics like domestic violence, and even issues to move our state forward, like the Confederate flag. Gary’s story has many intersections, but one I find most intriguing is his passion to listen. In the world of politics, this unique trait has served him well, a trait even us storytellers could learn to adopt as part of our own cultural DNA. This trait took him door to door, listening to his constituents, town halls, and even to the state house to co-author a bill removing the Confederate flag from the South Carolina statehouse grounds.

Bobby Rettew:
Let’s talk about knocking on doors, and that is one of the things that have fascinated me about your campaign. And you know, I’m a lover of politics. I have watched, in my short little life, presidential runs, you know, I was on the beat when I followed Senator McCain across the country, and I watched how these individuals really carried themselves out. And one of the things I loved about Senator McCain was his town halls. He loved talking to people, and I sense that about you. Talk about walking those neighborhoods and beating on doors and talking and listening to people.

Gary Clary:
You know, when I started knocking on doors in, I guess it was March of 2014, I had my palm card, you know, picture, little bit about me, what I believed in, and I’d go up and knock on a door and, not being a native of this area, and having lived in Clemson for only, the Clemson area, for only seven years, I’d knock on a door and say “Hi, I’m Gary Clary and I’m running for South Carolina House of Representatives District 3,” and they would look at me like I just stepped off a space ship.

Gary Clary:
But, you know, once you … the people were very receptive. I probably had less than a handful of bad experiences doing that, and I think that’s remarkable. You know, when I say bad experiences, you know, just one person saying I’m not gonna vote for you, I don’t believe in anything that you talk about, you’re running against a friend of mine, that kind of thing, to having the dog chase you. I went to one house outside of, between Norris and Liberty, and they had a pet goat that met me at the door. You know, just things like that.

Gary Clary:
But I think it shows the genuine goodness and welcoming nature that people around here have, that they’re willing to listen to you. But one thing that really helped during that process, you know, the first mail piece. When that mail piece hit, and I was going by houses, they were making the connection then, and things were going on in the campaign, and issues were coming up, and it would establish a conversation and an explanation and a rapport. So, you know, it was a really interesting process.

Gary Clary:
As my wife says, “He just loves to campaign.” And I do. I mean, I love to meet people. I love to hear what they have to say. I love to be able to help them if they have a problem. I think that’s the thing that I learned from Senator Thurmond, as well, his constituent service.

Bobby Rettew:
They’re our clients.

Gary Clary:
They’re your clients. They’re depending on you to navigate the morass of government, and, I think, as you say, you’re exactly right, I started this late in life. I’m certainly not going to be a career politician, it’s going to be … People say term limits and, you know, there are people who believe in term limits. I’m kind of mixed on my opinion of that. I think that the voters have the opportunity to limit your term every two years in the house, every four years in the state senate, and I think that’s the way to do it. Should there be a limit on the total number of years that serve? Probably so, because I think that, if you can bring people with fresh ideas into the arena …

Gary Clary:
And that’s not saying that people that have been there a long time don’t have ’em, because listen, my senator here is one of the most effective people in Columbia, Senator Thomas Alexander. He’s been there a long time, but let me tell you something, he’s a great partner to have in working for the people of this area. And then part of my district is also served by Senator Rex Rice from over at Easley. You know, different styles, different time of service. Rex was in the South Carolina House for about 16 years, and now he’s in the Senate. But Thomas was in the House, ran for the Senate.

Gary Clary:
So, people say, “How long are you gonna serve?” And I say, “Well, as long as the people will see fit to elect me,” but it’s, every two years is a decision. Because, you know what I mean, look at me, Bobby, I don’t buy green bananas, you know, I’m getting to that stage in life.

Gary Clary:
But, you know, I feel great. I don’t know what you’re supposed to feel like. I turned 70 in January and I don’t know what you’re supposed to feel like when you’re 70 because that’s just a number that I don’t really relate to, because I don’t know what 70’s supposed to be, because I know how I am now, and I still do all the things that I want to do, you know, work out just about every day and get some sort of exercise. I don’t run like I used to, but I still do a lot of things.

Gary Clary:
Politics is, that constituent service, I think, is what drives me. And then, on the legislative side, it is so difficult to get a significant piece of legislation passed, and it is a process.

Bobby Rettew:
Because South Carolinians are a different group of people. You know, I sit here and think about it. I don’t know if you know this, but Sarah’s great-great-grandfather, the Rev. Landrum, signed the secession, is on that marble piece in the statehouse.

Gary Clary:
Wow.

Bobby Rettew:
We look at, and as I’ve been reading his history and understanding where he comes from, South Carolina is a different, it’s a different group of people, but we’re very relational. We like shaking hands, we like talking in front of people, we like to hear and we like to share, and it’s all about comfort. It’s all the way down to the way that you grip a shake, wouldn’t you say?

Gary Clary:
Yep, yep, yep. You know, the thing about it, while we are different, a very diverse 5 million people now, there’s still that basic relational aspect that, you know, anywhere you go in South Carolina, there’s a connection. And, you know, I was fortune enough to travel this state for 10 years as a circuit judge and held court in 32 of the 46 counties, and people ask me, you know, “Well, why didn’t you hold court in the other 14 counties?” I said, well, I really didn’t want to, but it’s just the way the schedule worked. But, you know, there were some places I would rather not go.

Gary Clary:
But it still goes to show you that it’s a very small state, and a small world. You know, our son-in-law’s originally from up around the D.C. area, and when he and Adair started dating, you know, we were living in Gaffney then, and Trish and I had grown up there, and our children grew up there. We just knew everybody. That was something that was very foreign to him. But now that he has lived in South Carolina since he came to school here at Clemson, he understands. He’s a college basketball coach for the women at Lander University. He understands all those connections in South Carolina now because he recruits all over the state and the Southeast, and even nationally. But he understands and appreciates those connections, because he’ll run into somebody that knows me, or I’ll run into someone that knows him.

Gary Clary:
So, that’s the beautiful thing about our state.

Bobby Rettew:
You know, two days ago, that from this recording, we watched the most horrific thing, one of the most horrific things that happened in South Carolina’s history, and there’s a lot of ’em. There’s a lot of things that haven’t been talked about, but this one was very personal.
Bobby Rettew: When the Emanuel 9 happened, South Carolina is a state that everybody knows everybody, and so everybody got chills, because somewhere there was a connection to one of the individuals that was impacted inside that church. Talk about that from a legislator’s position. When that happened, what was it like on the side that we don’t see?

Gary Clary:
Well, you know, to take a step back, that was basically at the end of my first year in Columbia, and I remember coming home in May and telling Trish, I said, “You know, I just don’t know if politics is for me.” I’ve had a, you know, I went from that area of being in control in the court room to that big room where no one’s in control. And, I said, you know, I was floundering as to finding my place.

Gary Clary:
And when the Emanuel 9, that horrific event, occurred, we were in session, still in session, and we had gone back, you know, in extended session for vetoes and other issues, and we had adjourned on that Wednesday. It had been a long day, I got something to eat, went back to where I was staying and went to bed early. Shut my phone off.

Gary Clary:
And when I got up the next morning and opened up my phone and I saw what had happened, I mean, I was sick. You know, Senator Clementa Pinckney, I had known him when he was a page in the House, because I was a candidate for circuit judge and around. Then he went to the House and was, you know, a House member, senator, and, you know, that was personal.

Gary Clary:
That was Thursday, and I had gotten wind that my friend and colleague up in Spartanburg, now former Representative Doug Brannon, was going to introduce a bill to take down the Confederate flag from the grounds of the statehouse. So I called him, and I said, “Doug, I understand this is what you want to do,” and I said, “I want to sponsor it with you.” So he said, “Judge, you don’t need, you know,” he said, “I hear you, but you don’t need to do this. I don’t know if I’ll run for re-election in two years, but this is the kind of thing that can beat you.” And it was one of the things that did beat him two years ago.

Gary Clary:
So I said, “Well, listen, we’re gonna talk about this.” So that was on a Friday. My wife and I were sitting on our porch on Saturday afternoon and the phone rang and I answered it and it was Andy Shane, from the state newspaper. And Andy said, “Judge, you know, I want to talk to you about the Confederate flag issue.”

Gary Clary:
I said, “You know, I understand that people are very passionate about it.” I said, “Listen, I had an ancestor, my great-great-grandfather, Billy Cantrell, was killed at the battle of Manassas,” I said. “But this is divisive, and when you see what was driving Dylan Roof, you know, we need to remove this impediment from our capitol, because it’s offensive.” And I said, you know, it’s one thing to fly that flag at your house, but not at the state’s house. I said I have no problem with someone flying it their house.

Bobby Rettew:
Let’s talk about what you just said, the state’s house. What does that mean? In your terms, what does that mean? In your terms, what does the State House mean?

Gary Clary:
It’s everyone’s house. It doesn’t matter what station of life you come from, what your race is, that belongs to everyone. When I look around that big room, as I refer to it the House of Representatives, and all of its majesty, and I look out at the faces that make up that body, it’s reflective of South Carolina. It’s black, white, you name it. That is everyone’s house.

Gary Clary:
I can remember walking down the steps of the capitol toward downtown Columbia, toward that confederate monument, and with some of my African American colleagues. It was like a stake in your eye because of where it was. It had been moved in 2002 from the dome as part of a compromise to the Confederate memorial and it was just right there.

Gary Clary:
During the debate that we had about the removal of it, that was part of the issue, but anyhow Andy Shaine said, “So you’re on record as going to take it down.” I said, “Absolutely.” Doug Brown and I were the first two Republicans and that night … It was during the lead up to the Presidential primary and Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, George Bush, everyone said, “Take that flag down.”

Gary Clary:
That afternoon, it hit the wire. It was in the paper the next day. Then on Monday morning, I get up, getting ready to start my day and looked at my own and there was a message from MSNBC, a producer saying, “We’d like for you to be on MSNBC at such and such time. We’ll arrange to get you over to Greenville.” I said, “Listen, there’s no sense in going to Greenville because from where you and I are sitting, within about 50 feet, we’ve got one of the greatest broadcast studios around.” They arranged for me to be on a couple of shows there.

Gary Clary:
During that first hit that I did, word came down that Governor Haley was going to have a press conference that afternoon. As I was leaving, I got a call on my phone saying, “Can you be back here at 3:00 because Governor Haley’s going to have her press conference. We think she’s going to say take the flag down. We want to get your reaction. There were three or four of us hooked up as they do on that.

Gary Clary:
I like to think that what Doug Brannon and I and a lot of other people did was the impetus and then the galvanizing force to move this forward. It resulted in removing the flag from the State House grounds. During the debate … That flag meant a lot to a lot of people in different ways, but …

Bobby Rettew:
It happened quick.

Gary Clary:
It was very quick and I think that was the key to it because if we had not been in session and all of this had been talked about, then tried to do stuff to come back in January, I think it would have never happened.

Bobby Rettew:
You had to come back into session.

Gary Clary:
We were still in session-

Bobby Rettew:
You were in session.

Gary Clary:
We were able to amend the resolution to include the consideration of removal of the flag.

Bobby Rettew:
That’s right.

Gary Clary:
The Senate was the … They actually passed the bill very quickly. Then it came to us I think the next …

Bobby Rettew:
Evening wasn’t it?

Gary Clary:
Day. We were in session. It started and went into the night. It was really fascinating. All this is going on and it had the attention not only of the state, but the nation and the world because I was getting messages from people around the world that were watching it. During one of my speeches, I said, “The world is watching us today.”

Bobby Rettew:
Now a quick break to give a quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection, Touchpoint Media, a collection of podcasts dedicated to discussions on all things health care, including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the e-patient and, most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to Touchpoint.health, that is Touchpoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew:
Let me ask you something. This is a two pronged … Maybe let me ask this first question. Many people say it was too quick. We reacted too quick, the politicians down in Columbia used this moment as an opportunity to leverage it to take down our flag. Obviously, you’ve heard a lot of that.

Gary Clary:
Yeah, listen, I received … Let’s talk about emails. On that issue, I received probably just shy of 2,500 emails. I had about 700 from within my district. I had I want to say 800 from around the state additional ones. Then there were 1,000 from outside of the state. The interesting thing in my district, over ninety two percent wanted to take that flag down. This was after I’d made my decision. I didn’t say, “I’m going to wait and see how many emails I get to make my decision.” I made my decision because I felt like it was the right thing to do. In our history here in South Carolina, we’ve done a lot of things, and we don’t like people telling us what to do.

Bobby Rettew:
We do it on our own time.

Gary Clary:
Yes sir. The time was right and also during the debate, I said, “Listen, if that flag had gone up in 1862 rather than 1962, I could understand the historical significance in a better way, but we all know why it went up in 1962, because of the federal government and their approach to desegregation of schools and that was the overriding issue.” I also said, “Listen, we have the Heritage Act that requires a two thirds vote of both bodies to change the name of a street that has historical significance, a monument, anything else, including that flag.”

Gary Clary:
We were able to overwhelmingly get that two thirds vote, but I said, “I’m not in favor of changing the name of any street, changing a monument, changing the name of a building. I think this is important from the standpoint that most of those other things that I’ve talked about have been there for a very long time.”

Bobby Rettew:
You stated and you were quoted in the New York Times by saying this and this is what it says, “Representative
Gary Clary, a white Republican from Pickens County reminded members the world is watching us and said that the flag should be taken down for economic development, for jobs and all things we want to do here. Mr Clary also appealed to the conscience of his fellow lawmakers quoting an old church song. ‘Red and yellow, black and white, we are all precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children in the world.'” What do you think when you hear that, when I read your quote, your conversation?

Gary Clary:
It brings everything back, a true flood of emotions. I’m very proud of the way that we handled that episode in South Carolina, that we handled the debate in the house. It was contentious. It was spirited. It was thorough. Everyone that wanted to have something to say could say it, but at the end of the day, I think we moved … I don’t think. I know we moved South Carolina forward. I still get messages from people about that, and it’s positive. Now, are some people still unhappy with the decision? Sure, but that’s politics and that’s with any difficult decision that’s made. As I tell my children, if things are easy, anyone can do it, but there are certain people at certain times that have to make very hard decisions. That was a difficult decision, there’s no question about it.

Bobby Rettew:
You told me in a recent conversation together about the day that it came down, how the day was set, we knew what the schedule was going to be. Governor Haley was going to walk out, it was going to happen. You talked about being in that room with certain family members.

Gary Clary:
The bill was passed on July 9th at about I want to say 1:30 in the morning, somewhere around in there. By the time I got home, geared back down, my wife was there and my grandson was there. By the time I wound down, I got to bed maybe 3:30, something like that. My phone woke me up about I want to say 7:30 and it was a message from one of Governor Haley’s staff wanting to know if I could call them. I called and Governor invited me to her office before the bill signing. I think there were two or three legislators that she invited down there. When I walked into the governor’s conference room, I had relatives of the Emanuel Nine in there. That was one of the …

Bobby Rettew:
Talk about walking into that room, the moment that the doors opened and you had to take in that visual. Explain that to us.

Gary Clary:
When you think what those family members had gone through over the past month … It really wasn’t even a month. It was three weeks. To introduce myself to them and to try to think what they had gone through because I went to the service that they had in Charleston. There was the House and the Senate, where we traveled together down there. Just riding through the streets of Charleston and seeing the mass of people there and the outpouring of love and affection over that great tragedy and then looking at that small group of people that had had their lives just torn apart … I went around and introduced myself to them. Then Governor Haley comes in and she walked her way around every member of the room and I think I was the last person, the way that she came in, that …

Speaker 1: [inaudible 00:31:16].Bobby Rettew: How are you doing, sir?Speaker 1: It’s good to see you.Bobby Rettew: Good morning.Speaker 1: Good morning.Bobby Rettew: Good to see you.Gary Clary: [Lewis Leon 00:31:22].Bobby Rettew: Nice to meet you.Gary Clary: On our board of trustees.Speaker 1: For 32 years.Gary Clary: Oh.Speaker 1: I’m the old guy.Gary Clary: Hey, but you know what? He’s the man. He’s the man. Good to see you, Lewis.Speaker 1: [inaudible 00:31:34]. Sorry to interrupt.

Gary Clary:
Then she got around to me … Governor Haley and I … I had opposed her on some things during the year, but she gave me a hug. She said, “Thank you for what you did.” Then we went upstairs. She signed the bill and then the next day, the flag was taken down. It was very quick, but I think that was the key to getting … You know in Mississippi, there was legislation introduced to remove the flag [inaudible 00:32:16], change the flag or remove the flag I think it was. It went nowhere. It was really a historic time, and when you are going through a historic moment, you don’t realize it until you have the ability to reflect on it. We all knew it was something that had attracted a lot of attention, but I don’t think any of us understood the significance of it.

Bobby Rettew:
One of things that’s interesting to me as a storyteller is the fact that that story happened very fast. You have the shooting, which just ripped us apart. Then the second thing that happened that I think touched us was watching the families forgive him, which to this day still gives me chill bumps. Do you think that if it wasn’t for the forgiveness for these families, would we still be in this conversation?

Gary Clary:
I think that went so far. I think if their attitude had been different that that may have galvanized the sides just … I think that unconditional forgiveness, that love that they showed in spite of all their pain and hurt, that is such a lesson for all of us to learn.

Gary Clary:
That is such a lesson for all of us to learn. It’s just like my grandson was there. I thought it was a great lesson for him to learn to see that. He lives down in Greenwood. His senator is Floyd Nicholson, who is an African American, and a dear friend of mine.

Gary Clary:
I have a picture of Connor and Senator Nicholson from that day. Bobby, that night, when the House passed that resolution and the final approval and the African American members of that House, tears were streaming down their face. I think that was one of the more emotional moments that I can remember in my life.

Gary Clary:
I’ve seen a lot, but I think the whole key to it is I have thought about if I were black, if I had been through what these folks have been through. I mean, I don’t think there’s no way I can really relate to that because I’ve never been in that situation.

Gary Clary:
Listen, I grew up in a town and there was a produce stand, market-type thing, and they had a swinging, two café-style doors that were made, little window panes. On that doorframe, there was painted a sign, “No N allowed.” I still remember that. I grew up in a time when the Ku Klux Klan was active, burning crosses in people’s yards, having rallies. I mean, it was just a …

Gary Clary:
A local doctor’s wife was advocating de-segregating the schools and their house was bombed. That was the period of time that I grew up in so I was aware of that. Then, we lived on a corner of a street and right across the street from us was where the black neighborhood started.

Gary Clary:
I grew up with playing with African American, my friends, but we went to different schools. That was quite a time for a guy who grew up in Gaffney, South Carolina, and wound up, go through the circuitous route that I’ve had in my life to wind up at that point in time in the South Carolina legislature.

Gary Clary:
You know, the thing about that whole episode, it allowed me to figure out what I needed to be. I’ve been a Republican so long, it wasn’t cool when I was Republican. The state was dominated by the Democratic party. When I came to Clemson, I was a young Republican. We could have a meeting in a phone booth.

Gary Clary:
Then, I went to work with Senator Thurmond and he had changed parties in the ’60s. He and his team, we all built the Republican Party in this state. I figured out then what I’ve got to be is that reasonable, sensible voice of the party that I grew up with because the dynamics of my party has changed so much.

Gary Clary:
People don’t really say that they’re Republicans. They’re Conservatives. I think that there’s a … I’m conservative when it comes to fiscal matters. I believe that we need to keep our financial house in order and we have to have a balanced budget in South Carolina.

Gary Clary:
But, I also believe that you’ve got to be a Republican with a heart. There are issues, social issues that have to be addressed. I supported Governor John Kasich when he ran for President. When I first met him …

Bobby Rettew:
I love him, by the way.

Gary Clary:
I was trying to figure out who I was going to support and went to Columbia when he filled out his paperwork to be a candidate here and met with him at the South Carolina Republican headquarters, Republican Party headquarters. He said, “Tell me about yourself.” I told him, I said, “I was a judge, legislator.” He said, “You got that thing backwards,” because it’s the same way in Ohio, to a degree.

Bobby Rettew:
Right.

Gary Clary:
Even though their process is different. But, he said, “Tell me.” I told him what my view of what I was doing was. I said, “I just believe that you have to have … I’m a Republican with a heart.” He said, “You know, I like that.” He said, “You mind if I use that?” I said, “No.” He said, “But, I’m going to say, ‘I’m a Republican with a big heart.'”

Gary Clary:
What I try to do now is I’m very much in tune with protecting our environment. I believe that God gave us this beautiful place here and we’ve got to do everything we can to protect it. I’m very proud of the record that I’ve established in taking care of our environment. I believe in protecting individual rights, whether it be through our legal process, criminal court system, or our civil court system. I firmly believe that’s what we should be about.

Bobby Rettew:
The New York Times quote that I read to you earlier, you could have gotten in front of the legislature that night on the vote, for the flag to come down. You could have appealed to the logic. You could have talked about economic development. You could have talked about all the things, but you appealed to the emotion.

Bobby Rettew:
You said, “Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.” Why the appeal to emotion?

Gary Clary:
Well, whether you are in the courtroom or in the general assembly, you have different ways that you try to reach people. Because there was so much emotion on the side to keep the flag up, I felt like it was appropriate to flip that argument to show the other side of it too. It’s not just heritage. It’s for the people who had relatives that fought for the Confederacy.

Gary Clary:
There’s the other side of it that people were hurt as a result of all of the things that evolved from slavery and everything that was attended thereto. When I looked at my colleagues that were seated there, you’ve got a lot of different folks.

Gary Clary:
They look different. They’re different colors. They come from different nationalities, but we’re all South Carolinians. We’re all Americans, and I wanted to appeal to the greater good because we, every day, start our session with a chaplain who delivers a verse and a prayer.

Gary Clary:
I thought it was appropriate for me to think back to when I was growing up, and that was a song that we sung in Bible school, Jesus loves the little children of the world. Red and yellow, black and white. They are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world.

Gary Clary:
I just thought that was appropriate to let’s treat everybody with dignity and respect and love. We saw what the Emanuel nine families, how they exhibited forgiveness and love. Let’s start doing that in the General Assembly.

Gary Clary:
You know, there are very few moments that come along when you’re having a debate, you can hear a pin drop. Because as you know, when you come to the House, I just tell people, “It’s organized chaos.”

Bobby Rettew:
It is.

Gary Clary:
It’s like being on the floor of the stock exchange. The speaker’s up there, pounding the gavel to try to get some order. Not that way, during this debate. Everyone’s sitting there, paying attention.

Gary Clary:
Listen, there were a lot of magnificent speeches that day. Not saying that mine was … I was doing the best I could, but I felt like it was important for people from both sides of the aisle to come together because the key to that legislation was getting a clean bill.

Gary Clary:
Had we amended that bill that the Senate sent over in any way, they weren’t going to accept it. We’d had a log jam. One of the amendments late that night was to replace the flag, the Confederate flag flying outside the State House, with a South Carolina flag.

Bobby Rettew:
I remember that.

Gary Clary:
But, that pole that had carried that flag would still be there. It was my idea and the small group of Republicans that galvanized around this bill that we weren’t going to accept any changes. We owed that to our friend and colleague, Senator Pinckney, and eight other souls that died in Charleston that Wednesday night.

Gary Clary:
You know, it was a huge calculated risk to think that we could get a clean bill, but that vote on that amendment, was a 60/60 tie. There was a motion to table it. A 60/60 tie, so 120 out of 124 voted. There was some people out-of-state on mission trips, that kind of thing, because this is during the dead of summer.

Gary Clary:
So, we had to continue the debate and it was defeated by about five votes, I think. That enabled us to get the clean bill that Governor Haley signed the next afternoon. You know, I mean, there were a lot of people that were very passionate about the argument to keep it up and I respected that. I still respect it.

Gary Clary:
As I said when we started, it’s not that you or I can’t fly a Confederate flag at our house. It’s that we shouldn’t fly that flag at the people’s house, the State’s house, the State House, because if it offends anyone, then that impediment should be removed.

Gary Clary:
Now, there’s a monument there that the Daughters of the Confederacy erected in the late, I want to say it’s in the maybe early 1870s, and that monument was struck by lightning and reduced to rubble and they rebuilt it. Those are the things that tell the story and that has historical significance. You can go around those Capital grounds and see all the different monuments.

Gary Clary:
Jimmy Burns statute there. To the wars. Strom Thurmond’s there. Do these people … Were these people perfect? Absolutely not. None of us are, but what we try to do, or at least what I try to do in politics, is to do what I believe the people of my district sent me to do, and that’s to be reasonable and sensible in my approach to government.

Bobby Rettew:
Representative, judge. I’m used to just calling you Gary, but I thank you for your time.

Gary Clary:
Thank you, Bobby.

Bobby Rettew:
Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, there are many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touchpoint Media and Network. Podcast dedicated to discussions on all things’ healthcare. Go to Touchpoint.health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies. CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the ePatient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to Touchpoint.health. That is Touchpoint.health. Have a good day.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

In the last couple of episodes we explored bags and how to carry essential gear. In this episode we talk in more detail about one of the items that we carry and feel you could really benefit from using. It’s the handheld gimbal. We’ll answer questions such as… What is a gimbal? Why would I want one? What features should I look for and how much do they cost?

—— [TRANSCRIPT] ——

Reed Smith:
Hey everybody, this is Reed Smith.

Chris Boyer:
And this is Chris Boyer.

Reed Smith:
And we are co-hosts on a show called Touch Point, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals but health systems and physician practices.

Chris Boyer:
In every episode, we’ll dive deep in a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the health care industry today.

Reed Smith:
And while you listen to this show we would certainly love you to check out ours.

Chris Boyer:
All you have to do is swing on over to Touch Point dot health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touch Point Media network.

Reed Smith:
Welcome back to Gear in Review, this is Reed Smith joined as always by Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew:
What’s going on? How are you this morning?

Reed Smith:
Doing good, and we’re actually recording this for the first time in the same location. Well, you’re in the same location you’ve always been in when you record this, but I’m actually at our South Carolina Office and so we’re getting to do a few of these in person.

Bobby Rettew:
He gets to come to the place where all the gear is hanging out.

Reed Smith:
That’s right, that’s right. This is the actual Gear Headquarters. So, today something a little bit different. Everybody of course, we’ll get to cameras and different things like that, but this is something a little bit different, maybe people have not looked at very closely, so we’re gonna talk about it, what it is, what it costs, why you may want one, and some of the features you might want to look for, but by the episode title you’ll know this is about handheld gimbals. So, maybe to start, for those that don’t know, what is a gimbal if they haven’t Googled it already.

Bobby Rettew:
So a gimbal is basically a camera sitting on top of a mechanism that keeps it stable. So for instance, if I want to get a … you know when you’re trying to use your phone to record video and all of a sudden you notice that you’re just shaking all over the place, you trying to hold and record your kids, and you go back and look at it, and you’re wondering why is it so shaky? How can I make it not shaky? So gimbals provide a fluid motion so that the camera, the phone, whatever it may be, can be very, very fluid.

Reed Smith:
And there’s a number of types of gimbals and people that probably Google these images will see like for movie sets, people wearing, like these camera guys wearing like these exoskeletons holding these big giant cameras and allows them to run around and have more of that movement and keep the actual shot or the video itself smooth. So it doesn’t make you motion sick.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah.

Reed Smith:
Yeah, so when you watch it. And I guess we’ve seen this too, if you think about it, we don’t see it as much anymore, I guess, but you think about like news stations with helicopters. Well somebody had to video from those helicopters, and a lot of times those video cameras, or the actual camera component was built in and somebody was inside the helicopter controlling it, well that was another type of gimbal. Also, technically the little piece, you see cameras strapped to like drones, those are gimbals and things like that, but we’re gonna talk about handheld gimbals, and why you might want one.

Reed Smith:
So, a handheld gimbal. The way I think about, or the one that I have is an older version of what we’re actually gonna talk about, but it’s a way to hold my iPhone in a steady fashion I guess.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup, so, we use a multitude of different types of gimbals. Reed mentioned earlier, helicopters, well I used to shoot out of helicopters with gimbals, I’ve rented gimbals for helicopters. These work the same exact way, same technology, except you don’t spend $250,000.

Reed Smith:
It’s probably better technology.

Bobby Rettew:
It is better, it’s probably a lot better, but the couple that we’re gonna look at today are the ones that I like. I’m a big DJI fan, I’ve loved their products. There’s other products out there. We’re looking at the Osmo and then the Osmo Mobile and the Osmo Mobile II. Now there’s three different products from DJI. You can go check their website out. They got some good stuff on there and you can kind of see pictures of each one of them, but the one that we’re gonna look at first is the DJI Osmo, and it has the camera already built in on it.

Reed Smith:
Okay. So, and for those that may be thinking like why have I heard of DJI before. They’re one of the primary, maybe not original, but one of the primary drone companies. So a lot of people buy the Phantom I think, and those have been around, had a number of iterations.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup.

Reed Smith:
So this is another product line of theirs, really well built, and the difference in what we’re gonna talk about today is basically is the camera lens, or the camera itself, built in or not.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup.

Reed Smith:
I mean that’s really, that’s really the major different in what we’re gonna talk about.

Bobby Rettew:
And it’s really a price differential too. So, the ones that I’ve got sitting in front of me. I’ve got the DJI Osmo that has a camera, have a 4K camera built on top of it.

Reed Smith:
About the size of a golf ball. The actual camera itself. So the mechanism in the device itself, between what we’re talking about, both of them are roughly the same size.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup.

Reed Smith:
But this one has a little camera, like I said, about the size of a golf ball that kinda suspends in the air.

Bobby Rettew:
And the good thing about this one is that, first of all, it allows you to put your phone on it. Attach it to the side, and you use your phone as a way to monitor the video that’s being captured on the camera on the top. You’ll probably see these being used in golf shots, so if you watch a lot PGA Golf, you’ll see the person coming off the green and he’s walking in to hand in his card, you see guys running beside them with these DJI mobile Osmos.

Reed Smith:
Okay.

Bobby Rettew:
That have the camera and so, it’s fully fluid, it shoots a 4K image and it takes pictures and it allows you to basically capture really fluid motion so that it looks more “professional.”

Reed Smith:
And so you hold this, with a grip, and there’s a lot of thumb controls, or like Bobby mentioned, you can take pictures, zoom in and out, move the camera around. Everything that you need to do, you wouldn’t actually have to touch the camera per se, and that’s the point. It’s floating, so to speak, and staying fluid.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup, and since we do a lot of professional videography, this is a great tool for us to use as opposed to the big huge gimbals, because we spend a lot of time with kids, and kids get overwhelmed with big huge cameras. This little handheld video device shoots a professional image, but allows us to get in tight spaces or also put it with children and get video of kids, and they don’t get overwhelmed by this big camera. It’s really small, it’s indiscrete, and allows us to get into places that are really, really compact, for healthcare people, it’s good inside like patient rooms. Patient rooms are really tight, ERs are tight. This is a great tool to get really good stuff, and if you capture it and you can take it back to your AV department and they’re gonna pull the card out and be happy with you because they can integrate it into whatever else they’re doing.

Reed Smith:
Right, and so how is it actually capturing the video? So you shoot a video with your phone. It’s on your phone, and I think everybody kind of understands that. Now we’re talking about the camera being separate. A phone’s still I guess, kind of attached so to speak and you’re using that as your monitor, so where the video actually be captured on this device?

Bobby Rettew:
All the video content is being captured on this Micro SD cards that you literally pop in and out of the side of the camera.

Reed Smith:
Okay.

Bobby Rettew:
They are, I recommend anything bigger than a 32 gig because it’s capturing 4K images, you can also do HD, you can capture RAW images for you photography geeks. So RAW images. It will record directly on this card, and the app on your phone is recording as well. So if you are trying to get content out on Facebook instantly, you can go to the app and download a low res version of it to post immediately if you want to.

Reed Smith:
Okay. So the kinda best of both worlds a little bit. So before we talk about the other one and the differences, what are kinda the pros and cons of going with this particular model?

Bobby Rettew:
Number one, the pro is is that it’s compact, it shoots a beautiful image, it allows you to get in spaces that you typically can’t do, and it also looks like more of a professional piece. So, if you wanna walk in and, for us, impress the physician, that you’re actually recording something, it’s look a little bit more professional. The con is you have to charge batteries, so you pop batteries in and out of them. Batteries on last probably about an hour max. So you’re not really getting a lot of use out of it. So you need multiple batteries, you need to have a charger. So you gotta go through this whole mechanism of charging things, but for professionals, that makes sense, they’re used to batteries. So, that’s kinda the downfall to it. Other than that, I love it, it’s a great asset for what we do.

Reed Smith:
Very cool, very cool, all right well let’s talk about the other one for just one second. So physically if you look at the [tutor 00:10:11], if you go to the website, physically they look very similar. It’s the same basic size, but instead of having a camera actually integrated into it, that little golf ball that I mentioned, it has more of a little bit of a harness or a bracket I guess, that would hold your smartphone.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah, so this one is called the Osmo Mobile II. We have both the Mobile I and the Mobile II, the Mobile I allows you to put your phone on it, and then record directly into your phone and it will allow you to edit directly into your phone like using iMovie or any of the other apps.

Reed Smith:
Right.

Bobby Rettew:
The Mobile I did not allow you to do vertical video. The new one, the Mobile II, is less expensive, by about $50. It allows you to flip the orientation of your phone to do vertical. And the new thing too is that you charge the base of this, and you get about maybe all day with it versus, the battery runs out for this one in probably about two or three hours.

Reed Smith:
Okay.

Bobby Rettew:
So a lot more functionality. I like this specifically for marketing teams. It allowed them to go out into their brand, wherever they are, and capture video quickly, and immediately use their phones to edit and post on social. It’s a great tool. It’s easy to setup and allows you to really quickly and effectively look professional and use your own phone.

Reed Smith:
So there’s no additional video capture, there’s no card in this one, you’re recording directly on your smartphone.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup.

Reed Smith:
It is, it’s a great tool, allows for some additional stability. It’s honestly, it’s amazing how much more professional the video looks, even if you’re doing simple things, like we talked about in patient rooms, but like employee of the month or different events, you’ve got the employee fish fry out in the parking lot whatever it may be, and to Bobby’s point, it’s recording on your phone so you can quickly turn around and post that where you want, edit it, in your own software or I believe DJI has an app that allows some editing and some things like that as part of the process.

Bobby Rettew:
One of the things I love about this one is, I purchased it to see how it worked, and I used it on my daughters fun run 5K, and so I actually ran the 5K with it, captured her doing it, and the quality of the gimbal and the motion was beautiful. I came back, edited real quick in iMovie, uploaded it to YouTube, and my kids were watching it in just an hour.

Reed Smith:
Right.

Bobby Rettew:
And so if you think about the hospital world, we’re doing lots of events. You’re doing those fundraising 5Ks. This is perfect to go walk, do whatever, capture video and edit really quickly.

Reed Smith:
So I’d say between the couple of models, there’s a couple of pros and cons at least that come to mind for me and then jump in with your thoughts as well, but, you’ve got the Osmo that has the camera built in and for me, I think, talking of 4K for example, you’ve got the card that it’s recording to, so it’s easy to hand off the media to somebody else, as well as the redundancy of it recording on your phone and on the camera both, so there’s a couple of upsides there, I think the negative there is still we’re talking about removable batteries, the battery life’s not quite as long, whereas the Mobile II, the battery will maybe last a little bit longer, it’s easy to leave plugged in your office, grab and go. You don’t have to remember is the card with it or not, or is it empty or full and all that stuff, you’re just popping your phone in, recording, and typically, you’re gonna have enough battery life that you can go to the parade or you can go to the event or whatever it may be and you don’t have to worry about batteries and swapping batteries in and out and some things like that.

Reed Smith:
So I think similar use cases, but maybe a little bit different in the sense of are you really needing the higher quality video content, and is someone else editing that content? Or is this I just need a better, cleaner way for me to capture movement based and new video type content that then I wanna turn and share quickly or upload or I’m doing it all myself so to speak.

Bobby Rettew:
Yup, there’s two other piece of information I think would be good to share, number one is, the one with the camera, for all the professional people, if you do have a DJI drone, you can pop the camera and gimbal off of this and put it on a drone.

Reed Smith:
Oh great.

Bobby Rettew:
So you literally can pull this guy off and then pop it on the bottom of the drone.

Reed Smith:
Okay.

Bobby Rettew:
It’s very flexible to do that. A lot of people were buying the higher end cameras for this and pop them on their drones as well, so they’re interchangeable.

Reed Smith:
Okay.

Bobby Rettew:
The cons to both of these, is there’s a piece inside the app. If you’re recording lots of media, and you’re gonna basically start using up a lot of the space on your phone.

Reed Smith:
Sure.

Bobby Rettew:
We’re buying the 64 or the 256, whatever. Once you’ve recorded media inside the app and you’re done with the project, you have to go into the app and delete the media, because it double bumps it into your photos file as well. So you’ve got to go through and clean it out or you’re gonna blow through your space on your phone.

Reed Smith:
So you’re pulling down a lot of file size. So well very cool, they’re neat devices, recommend that you check them out, we’ll have links in the show notes, but certainly you can just Google DJI Osmo, or just go to the DJI website and obviously look at the different models. So, that’s it for today, that’s for listening in and we’ll talk to you next time for Bobby Rettew, I’m Reed Smith, be sure to check out touchpoint.health and learn a little bit more about this show and all our others. We’ll talk to you next time.

Bobby Rettew:
Y’all have a good one.

Reed Smith:
This show is made possible in part by the social health institute. Through research and partnerships with healthcare organizations around the country, the social health institute explores new and innovate ways for hospitals, healthcare organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more about the social health institute, visit them online at socialhealthinstitute.com, that’s socialhealthinstitute.com. This has been a TouchPoint Media Production. To learn more about this show and others like it, please visit us online at touchpoint.health.

Rozalynn “Roz” Goodwin is vice president for engagement and a lobbyist for the South Carolina Hospital Association (SCHA). Passionate about improving the well-being of populations through health and human services, Rozalynn serves as the primary link with many private and public sector stakeholders, including policy-makers, community and advocacy groups, insurers and employers.

In 2008, I met Roz when South Carolina Hospital Association hired me to craft a series of stories to demystify the stigmas of medicaid in South Carolina. Our journey together continued as I worked alongside Roz capturing and telling stories of the uninsured across South Carolina. Her passion and commitment to the underserved population comes from her childhood in rural South Carolina.

Roz’s commitment and compassion to every patient having access to quality healthcare provides a unique intersection, where her faith, passion, and her amazing ability to speak up and tell her own story build broader bridges across the state she diligently serves and calls home.

Bobby Rettew:
Intersection is brought to you by Social Health Institute, exploring new and innovative ways for hospitals and health care organizations to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategies. Learn more at socialhealthinstitute.com.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
I am Rozalynn Goodwin. I am vice president for engagement for the South Carolina Hospital Association and the South Carolina Hospital Association represents all the hospitals in the state of South Carolina. I have been with the Hospital Association now for 14 years, before that I worked at Palmetto Health, one of our larger health care systems here in the state in business development and strategic planning, and then before that I worked in the office of Governor Jim Hodges in health and human services policy.

I am a native of South Carolina, rural South Carolina. I’m a native of Mount Carmel, South Carolina, and part of my destiny is to put it on the map, so I have to give you some details about Mount Carmel, South Carolina.

Bobby Rettew:
In 2008, I met Roz when South Carolina Hospital Association hired me to craft a series of stories to demystify the stigmas of Medicaid in South Carolina. Our journey together continued as I worked alongside Roz capturing and telling stories of the uninsured across South Carolina. Her passion and commitment to the underserved population comes from her childhood in the rural town of Mount Carmel.

Bobby Rettew:
I want to learn about Mount Carmel a little bit.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Mount Carmel has a population of 231, well maybe 230 since my cousin just got married last week. All of us are related, or kin, like we say back in Mount Carmel, and until recently we had a single wide trailer with wheels on it painted red, white, and blue for our post office, so if that gives you any indication of how special small town rural South Carolina is, definitely Mount Carmel is special to me, and that rural upbringing, of course with everyone being so close and caring for one another, my parents still being in Mount Carmel and still actively serving their community in public service, in community service there, still very active, 77 and 75, and are busy everyday trying to make life better for everyone around them, that’s instilled in me and helps drive who I am and what I do today.

Bobby Rettew:
How did you find yourself in public policy? Background is you went to Lander University with my wife.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Yes.

Bobby Rettew:
In Lander University, did you say, “I am going to fight for the underserved and underprivileged in health care in South Carolina?” How did you find yourself in that public policy space?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
I think going back to my upbringing, I was also raised in the African Methodist Episcopal Church, so the AME church, and got exposed very early, not necessarily to politics, but I guess governance and kind of government, because at an early age we were in the young peoples division and you had to run for office, and there were oratorical contests that I would enter and win and there were different levels of the statewide organization of our YPD, our young peoples division, as we would call it. I’d be around other people from other regions of the state and we’d run for office and compete and then talk about our bylaws and the AME Church has been, always has been since it’s inception, very engaged in public policy. That was instilled in me very, very early that the role of the church is to be that light and beacon of the community and speak up for those who are underserved. That was the beginning of the AME Church out of … it was kind of birthed out of discrimination toward black people worshiping. That was instilled very early.

My parents, I have a father now who’s on county council, but he didn’t enter in to public policy as far as service in that capacity until about 14 years ago. I didn’t grow up around politics. It was just kind of ingrained in me to be an advocate. I didn’t know necessarily that I wanted to be in politics, but I did know very early that I wanted to be an advocate. I can go back to stories in high school where somebody was being picked on and I stood up for them, or even controversial issues, like when the case with Susan Smith and her sons and what horrible thing that happened there, even at the height of the Confederate Flag issue, before it came down off the dome here in South Carolina, we had a debate about it in high school, and I was always at the center of it.

It went on in to college where we had black face incidents and really trying to work on racial reconciliation and unity, even in college. From grade school through college, I’ve always been an advocate or just someone to speak up for what’s right and people have tended to follow, so I’ve always kind of emerged as a leader. I think part of that was just part of my purpose in being born in the environment that I was born in. I didn’t realize until probably as an adolescent.

My great-grandmother raised my mother because my mom’s mom had her when she was 12, so I’ve always been very passionate about teenage pregnancy for that reason, but my great grandmother helped raise us and when I was 12 years old, she was almost 90 and had experienced home health care, nursing home care, just every facet of the health care environment or system, so I was very close to her and saw that experience first hand and got I guess the urge to really try to help in health care.

I found a passion in health care at 12 years old, and actually got my first apprenticeship at McCormick Nursing Home when I was 15. I knew I wanted to be in health care and then once I found out in undergraduate school that I could blend health care with my passion to be an advocate, I thought it was a no brainer. I said, “I’ve got to be in health policy. I’ve got to be in health politics.” I’ve been in this vein, gosh, since 12 years old.

Bobby Rettew:
Why health care? I mean, you could have taken that passion anywhere else, but you chose to follow health care. I guess one of the reasons why I ask this question specifically is because you are basically the central person for Medicaid and Medicaid expansion in South Carolina, and you have worked hard for that, and I see your passion. How did you get connected to that topic, and how did you get connected to that issue? I know it’s one that’s been a part of South Carolina Hospital Association’s initiatives, but how did you get started with really pushing for that initiative?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
I think the why health care also goes back to my love for my great grandmother and some of the, I guess, injustices we experienced with her care. When I see injustice, my first reaction is, “I’m gonna fix that. I’m gonna change that.” And that’s always been me, from elementary school to high school to college. That’s kind of where it was birthed. To get into health care, I kinda always knew as I was in college and studying and researching what all was there, I was even a Truman scholar finalist and my essay was about health care insurance for all, developing the system, this is way before the Affordable Care Act, this is before all those things. I spent a lot of time researching how I can get access to health care to people.

I guess when you’re raised in a pretty poor part of rural South Carolina, I would visit family members who did not have indoor plumbing. This was in the ’90s. So when you’re that … and we were fortunate to not live in those type of conditions, but those conditions were just a mile down the road. My parents raised us to care. So when you see those types of inequities in one state, even in one county, one small town, it really drove that passion to change things. Even when I got my first apprenticeship in the nursing home, I was thinking then, I was like, “Well, I’m gonna run nursing homes. I’m gonna change nursing homes.” Then when I got in a clinical setting, I realized, “Okay. I don’t do well with death, so I probably can’t be in a nursing home every day.” I was just emotionally distraught when Mr. Bell died. That happened a lot. I knew I couldn’t be clinical and I worked at a surgical practice.

I kind of explored different things. I worked in state public health agencies. I worked for surgeons. I did a stint with information and research for a state government agency. Worked at a nursing home. I was able to get a lot of different settings to gain invaluable experience, but it also helped kind of direct me to, “Okay, I’m not probably gonna be a clinical person.” When I worked in a hospital and did strategic planning, I said, “Well, I’m probably not gonna be a hospital administrator.” That’s not my [inaudible 00:09:48]. I really want to do something more statewide, more global. I really want to impact and change policy. I need to be in policy.” The role just kind of evolved that way. I was at Palmetto Health actually. I was doing an internship and I was just intent on meeting the people who were doing jobs that I really admired.

At the time, Governor Jim Hodges had a female, African American, female, woman who was advising him on health and human services policy and I spent probably six months emailing and calling almost every day just trying to shadow her for 30 minutes. I basically, when I finally got to her, I said, “I just want to follow you around. I’ll fix your coffee. You won’t even know I’m there. I just want to see what you do. I’m just amazed by it. That 30-minute shadowing turned into an all day visit and meeting with her, and at the end of the day she offered me a job. I ended up working in health policy for Governor Jim Hodges and loved every second of it. I knew then that this is what I want to do. I really want to be at the table and help shape some of these decisions that impact our state.

Bobby Rettew:
I want to touch on something real quick that you just said that I think is interesting. How important for you was it to see at your age fundamentally another black woman serving in public policy in the state of South Carolina, and wanting to go see what that looked like? How important was that to you, to find your niche and find your place? Is that a fair question?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
It’s definitely a fair question. Had she been a white male, I would have done the same thing, but the fact that she was a black female really helped me see this is doable. You can do this. It wasn’t just that she was a black female. Virgie Chambers is the most brilliant health policy person you will probably every meet in your life. She understands Medicaid more than anybody I’ve ever met. I still call her to this day. She is amazing and brilliant. Now she’s working in the Department of Education doing some similar work, tying in education and health care for superintendent Molly Spearman. But that experience was a bonus to see someone who looked like me in that type of role. Like I said, had it been a white male I would have done the same calling, but it certainly gave me another image that you can never deny how impactful that was.

Bobby Rettew:
Can you take me to the moment when you realize you were gonna start working on Medicaid expansion and Medicaid in the state of South Carolina for the Hospital Association? Can you think back to your beginning journey. Those huge policy pieces.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
You know, it really wasn’t something that we were sitting on a management team meeting and I got assigned. It just kind of evolved as the Affordable Care Act, we recognized that it was becoming law. Of course, for years there’s been a lot of discussion about some type of reform and when it looked like it would pass, I do what I tell a lot of people I mentor now, I don’t know if I did consciously, but it’s just something I did, I wanted to know everything I could about the Affordable Care Act. It was exciting to me. Of course, … before I get up before anyone and talk about the Affordable Care Act, I am not saying this is a perfect law, but the fact that we had passed something that several presidents had attempted to do for decades was exciting to me. This was one of the, I would say the, biggest change in our health care delivery system since the passage of Medicare and Medicaid in the ’60s.

I really just kind of emerged myself in understanding the law, not necessarily to build a niche like I tell my mentees to do now, but I guess looking back, that’s kind of what I was doing, but I wasn’t doing that trying to be the Medicaid expansion lady or the ACA lady. I wasn’t trying to be that person. I was just trying to understand what was going on, but as I was learning more about it, understanding, reading, going to seminars, just really emerging myself in it, our Hospital Association was called upon to explain it to boards.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Was called upon to explain it to boards and community organizations, and universities, and a hospital board of trustees, and a lot of groups started calling on us to explain what the ACA was, what it meant, what it wasn’t. I ended up being sent out by our association to do that, because I had spent so much time learning the affordable care act. As I was speaking about the affordable care act, now I’ve stopped counting, but we were counting at one point, and I’ve addressed over 300, probably close to 400 groups now about the affordable care act since this passage, just because so many people were asking us to do that. It was groups. It was radio interviews, it was television interviews, it was all those things because people were trying to understand what was going on with the health care system now. After the supreme court, of course we’re following all the challenges to the law, and then the supreme court’s ruling came that made Medicaid expansion optional, we knew that as we were had been even before the affordable care act passed, our association had partnered with our medical association, our blue cross blue shield, and our business chamber.

We had already come up with a plan related to coverage and that worked. Just kind of paused because the affordable care act passed and a lot of what we were proposing was in the affordable care act. We had already made our stake and our claim that the association of hospitals of South Carolina was for coverage. When the supreme court decision about Medicaid expansion being optional to states was handed down, and within minutes, our governor at the time said no way we will not be expanding Medicaid under my watch, we had no choice but to say, “Wait a minute, let’s have an honest discussion about this state.” Then it became a big, I guess, part of our advocacy program to have discussions about expansion and how it would benefit South Carolina, what will be the pros, what will be the cons, what would it cost. It really ended up being our role, fell in our lap to be that spokesperson related to this aspect of the affordable care act.

As I was already out speaking about the ACA, I was already speaking about the ACA. I was, it kind of fell into my lap to already be talking more about medicaid expansion. We got a little bit more aggressive about going out and speaking. There were town hall meetings and a number of other things that were going on at the time. Our Medicaid director at the time was also very aggressive, going out to different places, so we often meet up across parts of the state with different points of view about Medicaid expansion. It was a hot topic, and people wanted to talk about it, so I was on TV, and I was on radio, so I ended up being kind of [coined 00:16:50] as the Medicaid expansion lady in South Carolina. That’s how it all happened.

Bobby Rettew:
Now a quick break to give the quick shout out to the network that supports Intersection. Touchpoint Media, a collection of podcast dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Including digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the E-patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to touchpoint.health. That is TouchPoint.health. Let’s rejoin the show.

Bobby Rettew:
Let’s understand the state of South Carolina from a healthcare perspective at that time. Specifically, when the affordable care act came out, obviously it was a hot topic for all the hospitals, but also medicaid expansion was a big topic because of the underserved South Carolina, the people that did not have access. Give us a state so we can understand what that would mean to South Carolina, and who were the people in need. Just kind of explain that at that point in time what was going on.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Recognizing, which we still have to communicate now, that the affordable care act had passed and we were going to be able to have hundreds of thousands, to 300, 400,000 people eligible now for subsidies or tax credits to reduce the cost of their healthcare insurance if they purchased through the affordable care act marketplaces. But that decision to make Medicaid expansion optional, and then our state resisting the option to expand the Medicaid program would leave about 200,000 South Carolinians in what we’d call a coverage gap. Those were the people who were living beneath the poverty level but were too rich to qualify for existing Medicaid program.

Bobby Rettew:
Roz’s commitment and compassion to every patient having access to quality healthcare provides a unique intersection where her faith, passion, and her amazing ability to speak up tells her own story, and the stories of the working poor.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
A lot of people assume that our Medicaid program, our existing Medicaid program covers everyone who’s poor. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I mean, of you’re a single mom with one child and you make $11,000 a year, your child qualifies Medicaid but you’re too rich to qualify for Medicaid. If you’re making that type of money, you’re probably working at a convenience store, and they don’t offer healthcare insurance. You make two … You’re too rich to qualify for Medicaid but you’re too poor to get a subsidy, because subsidies only begin when you’re making well over $12,000 a year. They’re caught in this gap. They’re working but they can’t afford healthcare because they can’t get a subsidy and then they can’t qualify for Medicaid. Now, the dilemma she’s in is if she stops working, she can qualify for Medicaid. Now, what sense does that make?

Our policy is set-up such that we de-incentivize people to work. Somebody really wants to work, they want to get out of poverty, they want the confidence and everything that comes, and the self-assurance that comes with working. We have set it up so that we are punishing because they are working. If they’re not making high enough wages, they can’t afford healthcare. We’ve got about 200,000 people that are just caught in that gap, and gosh, I mentioned that I meet people all the time in our open enrollment event, so they hear about these events and they hear about the affordable care act, and they hear about people coming and getting healthcare insurance for $10 a month, and doing it in less than 10 minutes. People line up, and we try to warn them before they get there, but it’s really difficult to explain. You have people who between working two jobs in one day, come and get in line to see whether they qualify for healthcare insurance.

I would never forget this woman who had on a uniform for one job, and she was rushing because she had to get to the next job, and when she found out she did not qualify for any assistance, as she works two jobs, she was devastated. I was too. I mean, I never get comfortable with that type of situation, and we try to direct them to clinics in the area, but it’s not healthcare insurance. We can direct you to some services but that, you don’t have the assurance of a financial security of having healthcare insurance in case something happens to you. In case you get some type of diagnosis that you won’t end up in medical bankruptcy because you don’t have health insurance. That is what we were, and we continue to express that to people, that we’ve got this gap of people inside Carolina who are working, that we’re really encouraging not to work, and we’re giving two very different messages that we want people to work, we want to bring jobs. We want people to be self-sustained and all those type of things, self-sufficient. But we have a healthcare system and a policy setup that de-incentivize them to work at this point. There’s about 200,000 people in South Carolina it impacts.

Bobby Rettew:
I think about these stories, and I think about the first time I went with your team to hospital day at the state house. Standing in between the two sessions, between the senate and the house, and the nasty name was Obama Care. Talk about what it was like for you to take those policy positions into those chambers, and outside those chambers, on that inside that the walls of the state house to advocate. What was that like in the early days?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Oh gosh, it was very contentious. I mean, we had finance who, of course right now disagree with us on, not necessarily that we should expand. I’m going to tell you a typical conversation I have with people who voted against this, pulls to the side and say, “Look, we know this is the right thing to do. I just can’t do this and be reelected.” I mean, it’s a hot potato. It is, in some cases, I don’t know if the environment is as bad as it was a couple of years ago, just like political suicide to say that you’re voting for Obama Care. Of course, I’m referencing the affordable care act, but it’s blended as Obama Care politically. Anything that you do as a politician, particularly to [abase 00:23:44] that is anti-Obama, anti-Obama care, they weren’t willing to take that chance. Quite honestly, we’ve got great political friends, great hospitals that we didn’t want to put in a position to take that chance. We didn’t want them to commit political suicide.

Four years ago, that’s what it was. It was political suicide, Obama was still in office, it was Obama Care, it was socialized medicine, it was government trying to take over my medicine. The environment was just so, so toxic and so bad related to the law. There’s a lot of misinformation about the law. I mean, I sat on panels with professionals who were just making up stuff, because they didn’t understand the law. I had to call a couple of them out a couple of times. It was bad. It was really ridiculous. We didn’t get very far, but it didn’t stop us from our education efforts to explain what Medicaid expansion was, what it was not. On the surface, it looks like, “Wow, you’re really fighting and got nothing done.” But we were able to educate people across the state, and mainly our policy makers on the benefits to a point that I think they understand and they get it now. It is just, as one of our senators say, I hold on to, it may take South Carolina a while, but we’re going to do the right thing. It may take us longer than others, but we will eventually do the right thing.

I hold on to that, that I think as the environment is a little better, now that president Obama is not in office, and we’ve seen a number of red states that are similar to South Carolina take advantage of this billion-plus dollar income for healthcare coming into the state to increase jobs in healthcare, and even jobs that are indirect to healthcare because of the ripple effect of that much money coming into the state every year, about two billion dollars now, that we’ve seen other states take advantage of the funds, and then create their own conservative-type model that is not traditional Medicaid expansion, that we’ve been taking the dollars and bought [for 00:25:56] a bit of healthcare insurance plan for people who are eligible for this expansion. We’ve seen these models, and I think we’ll warm up to it when the time is right.

But we don’t regret the conversations, being contentious and us doing what we had to do to educate our state and our policy makers on something that greatly impacts 200,000 people in South Carolina, and that we’re paying for it anyway. Our taxes are still paying for Medicaid expansion whether we’re taking it or not. Those are dollars that are going to other states.

Bobby Rettew:
Let me ask you, we started partnering together and started telling the stories of the uninsured, started shifting … You all shifted strategy a little bit and said, “Look, what if we start appealing to the emotion?” Talk about some of the early stories and why we started telling those stories? Why was that so important to talk to the underinsured and the uninsured, and go to these big clinics and show pictures of the thousands of people coming to receive care? Why was that so important to what you all are doing at this time period?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
I’m so glad you brought that up, because this work really began way before the affordable care act passed. We had an option to expand the Medicaid program. It began with access health, and those days of care that we provide at stadiums, that people could come and they would line up wee hours in the morning just to get screenings, or eye care. We had people even come from other states. I think that was so important because we recognize really early, and it’s still part of the problem now, the stereotypes associated with people who are uninsured or on Medicaid are so often very false, and those stereotypes that people have come out in the way they vote. It comes out with policy makers and arguments they make against access to healthcare insurance, or access to healthcare for those who are underserved. There’s just this assumption that people who would benefit from these services are all people …

Rozalynn Goodwin:
People who would benefit from these services are all people who are not working. They are lazy. They are ethnic minorities. All of those things impact the way people think about these services and how they vote. It’s sad to say, but it’s so very, very true. We recognize … I was riding in a car with a coworker. This had to be probably six years ago, and we were talking about something else. I stopped him. I said “We have passed by three billboards for Medicaid companies. Everybody on the billboard is black. This is the problem. People think that everybody on Medicaid is black. It doesn’t touch their emotion.” Now, I know I’ve talked about race quite a bit on this podcast, like “Who has Bobby invited on this podcast?” But we are in South Carolina. This is real.

Bobby Rettew:
It is real. It’s an important topic because it’s a topic that is discussed everyday. We spent a lot of time together talking about breaking that stigma, to showcase different families from all walks of financial and geographic situations across a state. Talk about the intentionality to admit that there’s a population, that a good portion of the population may be African-American, black, whatever, however we want to term it, but there is also a large population that are white-

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Yes.

Bobby Rettew:
that have lost jobs, good-paying jobs that need just help. Talk about the faces of what we found and who we’ve talked to from your perspective.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
The majority of people we’re trying to help whether they’re uninsured or would benefit from expansion or Medicaid are not minorities. They are white. The majority of people on Medicaid are working. They’re in working families. It’s not something that people get on and stay for the rest of their lives. The average length of time that people are on the Medicaid program in South Carolina is about two years. It is something that people are on temporarily until their situations get better. That is totally opposite from what people think.

As soon as you say the word Medicaid … That’s why we’ve not been able to use the word Medicaid expansion. We tried to come up with all different types of terms to talk about Medicaid expansion because people immediately have this image when you say Medicaid. This image goes back to the ’90s and the ’80s or welfare queen or all these things that were invoked on the federal level. People still have those images today: someone gaming the system, taking advantage of the system, not working, all those type of things. It’s totally opposite.

We had to try to change the image, get rid of the myth related to Medicaid and the uninsured. That work began even before the Affordable Care Act passed because we recognized that, before we make any progress related to coverage, we’ve got to help people see the face of who actually is uninsured, who actually is on Medicaid. We talked to people who were college students or college-educated people with children who were born with health conditions that they could not afford even with private health insurance from a job to take care of all of the bills that were necessary. We talked to those and you helped us put their story on video, and we went around the state to really show people “These are the faces of Medicaid. Get that other stuff out of your head. It’s incorrect.”

People’s stereotypes about who they think will be benefiting from something really impacts how they feel, how they vote, how other people pressure them to vote for it. The stereotypes and stigma of course is something we will continue to deal with. Even now, there are people who would benefit from the Affordable Care Act, could bet a subsidy, but the stigma of it being Obamacare, they said “Well nevermind, I don’t want it. I don’t want that Obamacare. Yeah, let me hear about that Affordable Care Act.” It’s the same thing, but they don’t want anything associated with Obama. Now, what’s the root of that? You can’t tell me it’s not something related to race. If you hate Obamacare but you love the Affordable Care Act, come on. It’s something going on with race there. I need you to dig a little deeper.

Bobby Rettew:
I’ll never forget the time that we spent together on all these different big events, and I would walk in to these big mission events. We called them mission. All this was funded tremendously by the Duke endowment, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and so many partners of these big events where people would come and there’d be lines of them, lines of people across the state. I would look at them and [Roz 00:32:45], these people looked like me. I would look-

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
… and it would just break my heart that we would have these events downtown on the fairgrounds of Columbia, and it wasn’t two miles up the road that the state house stood. It would be amazing if those legislators would just walk down or drive down two minutes. They could meet every one of the people. I was just amazed the disconnect between those in need and what was two miles up the road based on the numbers, just the shear mass of it. Did that magnitude of it, of that disparity get to you at any point in time of like “God, we are climbing a big hill here?”

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Oh, man. It got to me quite a bit. The promises I made to Senator Pinckney, keeping a picture of my children on my desk, those things keep me motivated. They keep me moving. Going back home and my cousin next door struggling with trying to get access to healthcare and keeping a job, those things keep me grounded because of my roots. There are certainly days that I’m like “Gosh, there’s a whole lot more I could be doing with my gifts and talents.” Like Lebron said, I can be taking my talents somewhere else, but I can’t. It’s part of my purpose. Like I promised Senator Pinckney, we’re going to fight til we win.

I mean it is definitely. We encourage. We’ve invited legislators, but sometimes they’ll come and get exposed to it. Others just kind of turn their head. It is not until … And which we always encourage constituents reach out. “I need you to share your personal story. Make a visit to the state house. I vote for you. I’m in your district. Explain to them what is going on,” and that is what really moves them. Like I said, on the surface, it looks like we haven’t made a lot of progress, but these type stories, mission, the pictures, the constituents reaching directly out to their legislators are making an impact. It is pricking their hearts. They’re certainly thinking about it. While it’s taking us a while to do, I do believe that at the end of the day, like our senator said, we’ll do the right thing.

Bobby Rettew:
Well progress is being made because Medicaid expansion was on the primary ballot for the Democratic side in South Carolina. That’s a big move.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
It is. It is.

Bobby Rettew:
Talk about that. What does that mean just by getting something on the ballot for people to voice their opinion in a collective space?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
I think it means that, particularly with the results, it is still a big issue for the Democratic party. I know that the newly elected Democratic nominee for governor has also made it very clear even with one of his first ads that access to healthcare will be one of his top priorities. He didn’t shy away from that. I think the conversation certainly is still there and will continue to be there even as we move forward with debates [inaudible 00:35:59] the next couple of weeks once the Republican nominee for governor is determined after the run-off. It will continue to be a conversation. That’s a good thing. It’s not something that’s just going away.

There of course are red states that are moving forward, even southern states. Virginia will be moving forward with expansion in the coming months. Utah has it on their ballot. There’s movement that’s going on across the country. I believe South Carolina will be in one of those waves coming forward to the southeastern states. That’s really kind of the bulk. If you want to look at a map, that’s where most of the states who’ve not yet expanded are in, but we’re part of a shrinking minority. 18 states at this point. It’ll probably be close to 17 or 16 states very soon. Everyone else has taken advantage of these dollars to expand access to healthcare in their states, and eventually South Carolina will join them.

Bobby Rettew:
There’s movement and changes in narratives that are happening here in South Carolina. You have seen it and witnessed it. Something you shared with me many, a few years ago — I can’t remember exactly when, but it has always stuck with me — is fighting for these issues like expanding access to care, but each day you would have to walk up to the state house past the Confederate flag as a black woman that is lobbying for the underserved and the underinsured. You shared that that was a struggle to walk past that sometimes. Even I’ve heard people share how Senator Clementa Pinckney, that was a struggle for many people to do that. When you saw it come down, that has to give you no … To know that there is progress being made and the narratives are changing. What are your thoughts there with that? How have you seen the changes, very simple changes that are coming along the path here for your work?

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Many people thought that that would never come down, and the fact that the movement to bring it down, I guess the bipartisan movement to bring it down happened so quickly, it certainly gave us hope and encouragement related to any other issue that people think can never happen. If that happened, we will do what’s right related to access to healthcare. I just truly believe that. It was an amazing day. It was, particularly for me, amazing to see some of the legislators who have been fighting for so many years, people like Representative [inaudible 00:38:38] Cobb-Hunter, to be in tears, I mean almost weeping that day. It was particularly moving for me.

There’s nothing that’s impossible. Once we get the will and particularly the bipartisan support — and that’s what we’ve always strived to do — I believe that South Carolina can come up with a plan that is specific to them, that is conservative with our core values and our beliefs, and that we can get bipartisan support for it, whatever it is. We’ve got the flexibility to do that under the Trump administration. Once we have the will to work together to do it similar to what we did with the Confederate flag coming down, it can happen and it can happen quickly. That’s encouraging.

Bobby Rettew:
Roz, thank you. It is the most awesome honor, number one, to work with you on a daily basis; number two, to interview you; and number three, to witness your journey. I’m very thankful that we have crossed paths.

Rozalynn Goodwin:
Likewise, Bobby. You’re an amazing storyteller. I’m thankful you have this platform to share your gifts with the world.

Bobby Rettew:
Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and exploration. Most importantly, the many intersections inside the world of storytelling. Intersection is powered by Touch Point Media Network, podcast dedicated to discussions on all things healthcare. Go to TouchPoint.Health for many other podcasts exploring digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, CIO and technology strategies, the challenges of the online physician, the power of the new patient, and most importantly, the power of storytelling. To learn more, go to TouchPoint.health. That is TouchPoint.health. Have a good day.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

In the previous episode, we talked about what everyday bags we use to carry our laptops, iPads, and even the gadgets we use everyday. Now it’s time to talk about the professional camera bags Bobby uses to carry all his team’s video and photography gear. We’ll cover everything from day-to-day professional, sling bags, and the big bags pros use to travel both domestic and international. We’ll talk you through what works for us and what might work for you. We hope you enjoy!

Reed Smith:
And we are co-hosts on a show called Touch Point, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals but health systems and physician practices.

Chris Boyer:
In every episode, we’ll dive deep in a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the health care industry today.

Reed Smith:
And while you listen to this show we would certainly love you to check out ours.

Chris Boyer:
All you have to do is swing on over to Touch Point dot health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touch Point Media network.

Reed Smith:
Welcome back to Gear In Review. I’m Reed Smith, joined by Bobby Rettew. Bobby, how’s it going?

Bobby Rettew:
What’s up, man? How are you?

Reed Smith:
Good. We’ve done a few episodes at this point. Last time around we talked a lot about bags, kind of focusing on the everyday bag and what people may be carrying, would need to consider, especially if they travel and things like that, to carry things, not just your laptop, but other little gadgets, and all of that kind of good stuff. Good feedback on the episode. One thing specifically I wanted to expand upon or talk a little bit more about was gear-specific bags. A lot of people may consider this a thing about this is like a camera bag, although that’s probably not fair to call it just a camera bag, but that may be the most common use case, right, is carrying a camera-plus or something along those lines?

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah, you know, yeah. Reed, you and I have talked about this a lot. You know, you’ll call me and I came in. I’m thinking about getting this bag to put my camera and a couple of things in. What do you think? I get that question a lot, like which bag are you using for what when it comes to camera-plus something. It’s all about size. Not everybody wants the big; not everybody wants the small. I live in this world of the different sized bag, based on the different size of scale, based on what I want to do. You know?

Reed Smith:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

Bobby Rettew:
I don’t know. I assume you kind of live in that world, too, when you’re traveling, right?

Reed Smith:
Yeah. It will, and even just running to meetings and things like that. It’s like you weigh the what-am-I-taking-with-me kind of thing. Do I need a laptop, or really is an iPad fine? And really, only is an iPad needed, in case I need to show something? Am I just going to be part of a meeting and take a few notes? Whatever it may be. Again, it may slant towards just the laptop sleeve, or kind of the small, you’re taking zero cables, you’re taking a moleskin and an iPad kind of a deal, or something to that effect, up to having to be somewhere all day long, so I’m going to need the charger, adapters. I need some way to record, so the Shure MV88 that we’ve mentioned a few times, the IOS microphone that we like to use, maybe it’s a camera, maybe it’s multiple cameras kind of a thing, earbuds, maybe additional headphones, depending on, again, what we’re doing.

Reed Smith:
There’s a lot of reasons to have different bags and things like that. I think what we wanted to talk about was the recommendations around more of, I guess, that category of camera bag or gear bag. So, again, still not the equipment-specific stuff, the stuff that holds lights, drums, things like that. It is built specifically for one item, but more of that larger, more all-inclusive bag, right?

Bobby Rettew:
Yep. I kind of have four bags I rotate through. I figured I’d start small. I just kind of what’s the smallest piece that I use, the smallest bag, and what can I get into it, and why do I pick it. The first one I have is a Think Tank Photo. It’s called the 20 Sling Bag. It’s literally a bag you can put across the front of your body. It’s small enough, just big enough to hold a DSLR with a lens and a hard drive. Also, I can put my iPad in the back of the sleeve, and then it’s got one compartment that I can put batteries in.

Bobby Rettew:
The reason why I like this bag is because it allows me to throw a camera in it with one lens on it, maybe a second lens, maybe, but even with that camera I can put like my DJI Osmo Mobile. It’s a stabilizer for my iPhone. I can stick it in there, and I can put my iPad and a couple of batteries. That literally will allow me to go somewhere, take pictures, Tweet, upload, use my phone as a stabilized video piece, and I’ve got backup batteries, and it’s all in one small bag. It’s small enough that I can just put it over my shoulder. When I walk through crowds, I don’t hit people or knock people out of the way. I love it. It’s a great little bag.

Reed Smith:
Very cool. All right, which one was that? What’s that called?

Bobby Rettew:
That’s the Think Tank Photo TurnStyle 20 Sling Bag. We’ll put these up on the notes, but it’s a great little bag. It comes in like two different colors, like a blue or gray. Love, love this bag. I didn’t know about it until I saw someone wear it. I had to go get it immediately. It’s about a hundred bucks for it. The strap … The one thing I like about the strap is when it’s across your shoulder, or across the front of your body, it’s easy to shorten and extend very quickly with one tug. If you’ve got to really tighten it up, you can just jerk it real quick, and it will tighten down. It can turn into, with one little move, you can turn it into a backpack. It’s super durable. I love it a lot. Very well-built. I have yet to see any of the threads start pulling away off of it.

Reed Smith:
I think what’s interesting about that bag, and some others like it, is the ability that it’s customizable, right, so it’s got the kind of little Velcro sections that you see in a lot of, again, camera bags that allow you to kind of create what you need space for, lenses, or camera bodies, or maybe it’s more your camera’s on one, but maybe it’s some hard drives, like you mentioned, a small gimbal for your phone, or something to that degree. That’s a great recommendation. What do you got up to from there?
Bobby Rettew: I love, my next bag is what I call the Lowepro. It’s made by Lowepro. It’s called the Fastpack BP 250. It’s black. I bought it as a replacement to my Kata bag that I had for roughly 15 years, that I pretty much wore it out. This bag is truly a backpack. It’s not a big backpack, but what it does do is it’s got a section in the bottom that holds the camera. If you look at the bag, it has an easy access on the side that you can unzip with it on your back and pull your camera out-

Reed Smith:
Oh, nice.

Bobby Rettew:
… which is really cool. It’s big enough to hold my 5D Mark III with a 15mm lens on it, plus I can also fit another 35mm lens and my 7200 lens in the bottom of that bag. It’s very well-padded. All I have to do is just open the side and pull the camera out, and not even take my backpack off. Love, love, love it. On the top side of that bag is an upper compartment where it allows me to put a hard drive. I can put my Shure MV88 in there that I use for my iPhone to record audio. I can load it up with my bag in a bag, with my cables and other things. It has an upper compartment that’s big enough to hold and bulk in. I can put a flash in there if I want to, or I can put another lens in there, which is super great. The other part that I love about this is behind that, against your back, I can slip either my MacBook Pro 15″ in there, or I can put my MacBook 12 in there, or I can put both.

Reed Smith:
Nice.

Bobby Rettew:
It’s really, it’s durable enough, and if you drop it, it’s got enough foam to protect that camera and to protect the laptop. It’s super durable. It really can be just a one-shoulder deal, a two-shoulder deal, or a two-shoulder and you can untuck the thing to go around your waist if you want to.

Reed Smith:
Very nice. That’s the LowePro Fastpack BP 250. Again, we’ll have a link to that in the show notes. Again, primarily built for a 15″ laptop. They do make a smaller one, which is the BP 150 that they say is more geared for an 11″ laptop or one of those, I guess, like your MacBook Air, maybe the 12″ MacBook, some of those type things would probably fit in there, an iPad would obviously work really well. It doesn’t have the waist strap, but it’s a little bit of a smaller bag. That’s really cool. I like the independent … You don’t have to unpack the whole thing to get to just your camera. You’ve got kind of some of those individualized compartments, so that’s really cool.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah, I love it a lot. I replaced … That bag replaced my Kata DR-467 bag that I had for 15 years. The reason why I got it, it was similar build. The other thing, too, is if I really want to scale it up, I can attach my small tripod, too, if I want to. So I can really scale it up or scale it down, but at the end of the day I always have my camera in the bottom of it, which is great.

Reed Smith:
Very cool. Very cool. All right. Where do you go from there?

Bobby Rettew:
From that, we have, I call it the Cinebag. That’s the name of the brand, CineBags. It’s a CB25B Revolution backpack. This bag is a beast. It will allow you to pack just about everything you can need. I can put two cameras in it. I put my 5D Mark III … I can put three cameras in it: 5D Mark III, 5D Mark IV, and a Canon C100 with a couple of lenses in it. It opens up and zips open to protect it from the back so that people can’t come up from behind and unzip it to get to your gear. You physically have to take the bag off to get access to the camera gear that’s facing your back. The zipper is facing your back.

Bobby Rettew:
Then it has side pockets to put all your stuff, like batteries, a flash, hard drives, all those things, which is really, really good. Then on the front of it, facing outward, you can fit your 15″ MacBook in it, which is great. Then it’s got these straps on the outside to put your monopod or your tripod, and then what I really like about it is in the top the upper level area of the bag a couple of pockets dedicated to media. It has little itsy-bitsy pockets built into the big pocket where you can store individual media cards that keep them separated, and it’s also protected from weather, so very, very thought out bag. I’ve used this bag internationally, traveling internationally. I’ve never had a problem with someone try to do something to me with that bag. It’s very well-built and protects the gear.

Reed Smith:
Very cool. That’s the CineBags 25B Revolution backpack. It comes in a number of colors. If you’re a fan of the bright colors, there’s a super bright orange. There’s obviously the kind of charcoal black version, some camo versions. Like Bobby mentioned holds DSLRs, lenses, accessories. It’s got exterior pouches. It’s got padded shoulder straps, chest connectors, business card. It even has a rain cover included. This is really stepping up here. This is probably, for those of you out there that have multiple lenses, maybe multiple camera bodies, you’re capturing a lot of content. You want to be able to … This would be a great backpack for those that are going and recording with subjects, because you probably … especially if you’re a one-man show … you could carry a lot of almost, maybe everything, with you in one fell swoop versus multiple trips to the car, right?

Bobby Rettew:
Right.

Reed Smith:
You’ve got a way to strap … to your point … tripods and things like that, other stabilization equipment, to you with all the accessories, go in, set up, capture audio, get out.

Bobby Rettew:
The key about these three bags is that it keeps me portable. If you remember in the first show, we talked about, you know, I gave the example of how my tool bag used to be my SUV as a broadcast journalist. Everything you needed in there to capture, shoot, produce, and distribute a story. Now everything, each bag, can basically do all that based on scale. That small bag can still do that. It allows me to carry a camera, media cards, and things that I can still use my phone to distribute media.

Bobby Rettew:
One step up allows me to do a little bit more. The two bigger bags, I can even put a small LED light in, with a battery, and a little stand that I can pop up and I can put a little light on a face. Those lights can be 30 to 40 bucks. So simple tools that allow me to do everything in one bag to capture, create, and distribute, and measure, and engage.

Reed Smith:
Nice. I think that’s great. I think that’s great. Again, a lot of this goes back to who are you, what are you trying to accomplish. It’s a very minimal, I mean, the smallest thing you can do is carry a phone in your pocket. This is getting up towards that higher end. There’s been pre-production planning going into this. This content you’re capturing is probably more evergreen. You want it to last for a period of time. It’s not a quick tweet, right, things like that. A lot of this is where’s the content going to live and for how long. That’s great. That’s great.

Bobby Rettew:
It’s fun stuff, man. I love bags. I’m always looking for the next better bag to stay portable, because I hate carrying multiple bags. There’s nothing more drives me nuts when I’ve got to carry two bags to do something I can put all in one. I mean, it just drives me crazy.

Reed Smith:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Very cool. Any other bags come to mind that you think people should take a look at or consider?

Bobby Rettew:
You know, I’m a big proponent, once I pick a brand, I kind of stick with it. I really love Think Tank. I mean, they do a good job of building things. I really love the Manfrotto bags. They do a great job. Also, these LowePro bags. They’re just very well-built. You spend a little bit of extra money, but you’re getting durability. It’s all in the canvas and the comfort. It’s all about really protecting your gear out of the elements.

Reed Smith:
Yeah, and I think going to some of these websites … again, we’ll have links in the show notes, whether it’s B&H Photography or otherwise. You’re seeing that they’ve got four and a half stars, and there’s 81 reviews, so that’s a pretty good indication that the bags have held up. Certainly some of these more industry-specific websites, like B&H, are going to have a lot of options, a lot of reviews from people that are pretty heavy users. They’re not just … They’re really not even just hobbyists. These are a lot of professional photographers, for example, in this case, that are using these bags.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah, I love my bags, man. You know, I’m even interested to hear, from the people that are listening, what bags are you using? Tell us what you’re using. We’d love to hear why you chose your bag. If it’s something we can learn from you, heck, we’d like to look it, and maybe a chance, bring it in, and test it out, and let you know what we think.

Reed Smith:
Very cool. Very cool. Well, another great episode. Great stuff. We could talk about bags forever, and probably will, to some degree, talk about bags forever. Again, we’re going to be getting into cables, to IOS apps, to microphones, headphones, stabilization components like tripods and gimbals, and all that kind of fun stuff, cameras certainly, whether that be still photography or videography, lighting, flashes, et cetera, et cetera. Lots more to come. Thanks for listening. We certainly appreciate. We love your feedback. We love for you to subscribe, rate review us, all that kind of good stuff. Head over to touchpoint.health. Check on all our other shows. We look forward to talking to you next time. He’s Bobby. I’m Reed, and we love gear.

Reed Smith:
This show is made possible, in part, by the Social Health Institute. Through research and partnerships with health care organizations around the country, the Social Health Institute explores new and innovative ways for hospitals, health care organizations, to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more about the Social Health Institute, visit them online at socialhealthinstitute.com. That’s socialhealthinstitute.com. This has been a TouchPoint Media production. To learn about this show and others like it, please visit us online at touchpoint.health.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

In the previous episode, we talked about what’s in the digital content communicator’s tool bag. Now it’s time to talk about the bags themselves. We’ll cover everything from day-to-day laptop bags, to pro size bags to bags that fit inside bags. We’ll talk you through what works for us and what might work for you. Bottomline, Reed and Bobby talk through some the bags they use and even how they have more bags than their wives. We hope you enjoy!

—— [TRANSCRIPT] ——

Reed Smith:
Hey everybody, this is Reed Smith.

Chris Boyer:
And this is Chris Boyer.

Reed Smith:
And we are co-hosts on a show called Touch Point, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies, not only for just hospitals but health systems and physician practices.

Chris Boyer:
In every episode, we’ll dive deep in a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the health care industry today.

Reed Smith:
And while you listen to this show we would certainly love you to check out ours.

Chris Boyer:
All you have to do is swing on over to Touch Point dot health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touch Point Media network.

Reed Smith:
And welcome back to Gear in Review. I am Reed Smith, and joined always by Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew:
How’s everybody doing today?

Reed Smith:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, we are back for episode two. On the first episode, we obviously talked a little bit of an overview about what’s in the bag, some of the basic things that you carry, get asked about, and all that kind of good stuff. And so we thought none a better place to start than actually what you carry it in. So this episode, obviously if you’ve downloaded it you see that we’re going to talk about bags. So this is a fun one. I have a ton of bags. I’m not really sure why but I do. I have a lot of bags.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. I think my wife, Sarah, looks at me and goes, “You have more bags and shoes than I do.”

Reed Smith:
Yeah. Yeah. We should do an episode on shoes. That’s kind of equipment. I mean, you’re going to stand a fair amount and stuff, so.

Bobby Rettew:
Dude, I buy Cole Haan shoes and Nike shoes. And I have different types of Cole Haan shoes for each type of video shoot.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. See, exactly. All right. So I’m going to make a note. We’re going to talk about shoes at some point on this.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. We’ve got to do that.

Reed Smith:
I’m not sure if that’s technically a gadget but it kind of is. It’s part of what we need for work. I wonder if I can take them off my taxes?

Bobby Rettew:
Probably could.

Reed Smith:
Anyway. Everybody just keep that to yourself. We’re not going to talk about that. All right. So real quickly before we jump in, categorically speaking, all right, we’ve got a couple of things and I want to outline this real quick before we get too far into it so that everyone knows what we’re talking about here. So we’ve got everyday bags. Again, probably more what the folks listening, myself, carry. Hold a laptop, a few things, whatever, and so we’ll come back to that. Then you’ve got more of kind of that every day plus. Maybe it’s just a capacity thing, holds a little extra. Really, then, you kind of move into that pro realm. Probably more of what you carry, what you travel with, for example. And again, we’ll get into that.

Reed Smith:
There’s bags that go inside of other bags. And not to spoil the big surprise there, but we’ll talk a little bit about that. One thing that we’re not going to talk about today that we’ll get to eventually are bags that, they’re manufactured, specifically they’re used to carry a certain item. They probably came with the item. So you think about things that carry drones. Maybe they carry larger video cameras or lighting, those types of things. We’re not really going to get into that. So you think about the hard shell Pelican case kind of stuff. Or maybe you’ve got the one that comes with the foam that you can pull the pieces out of and it fits certain pieces of equipment. So, again, another topic for another day but that’s kind of on one of the specialty use spectrums. So maybe let’s start with every day. What do you carry on a daily basis?

Bobby Rettew:
So I kind of live in this world where I have two laptop bags. And right now I’ve moved into the most portable way to walk into a professional meeting with a laptop, a mic, and my iPhone, and basic stuff to do things. And so I have a leather bag that I got in Florence, Italy when I was over there, and it can hold my 12″ MacBook, my little Shure mic, my MV88. It can hold a hard drive and a couple other little items and it looks super awesome. Everybody wants to know where I got the bag and I’m like, “I spent 2000, 3000 dollars on it.” And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, that’s a lot of money.” And I’m like, “That’s the plane ticket and all the other stuff that [inaudible 00:04:32].”

Bobby Rettew:
But it’s great because it’s small, it’s portable. I like to put bags, not on my shoulder, but I like to wrap it over so it hangs on my back. You know that one strap? So I can walk and use both hands. And that’s how I pick my bags. This bag is perfect. It allows me to the thing and it’s super awesome.

Reed Smith:
So a couple of features that I like. The current one I’m carrying primarily holds my laptop. I can also put an iPad in there. It’s got a few other pockets for field notes or moleskins or pens, maybe note cards, business cards, cables, all that kind of stuff in a few different pockets. But a couple of things… the current on I have is made by Topo Designs and the interior of it is bright yellow. Really helpful because everything else is black that I put in there, pretty much. And I can see what I’m looking for, especially on an airplane or something like that.

Reed Smith:
The other thing that I think is an interesting feature to keep in mind is if you do travel a fair amount or you find yourself in airports and you take a carry on bag, if there is a way that you can slide it on that handle where you can wheel everything together – if that makes sense – for your roller bag. That’s helpful because there’s been a couple of times that I’ve had a bag that either didn’t have a handle or didn’t have a strap or whatever. And it was fine most of the time until you traveled. So, again, you’ve got to think about where you’re going to use it or what you’re going to use it for. But for the most part people are carrying a laptop and a handful of other things around with them, right?

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And so my small leather bag – and I don’t mean to belabor the point but to your point – it has certain functions for stuff. It’s big enough that it carries all my things but it’s small enough if I’ve got to sit in the car with someone else I don’t feel uncomfortable holding it. And so I’ve got my moleskin. I carry a receipt folder so I can keep up with my receipts. It’s got to have a pen thing. The one thing I do like about this bag is that it’s got one separate file folder zipper area, that I can zip up, that I put all my daughter’s drawings and stuff so that I kind of protect them, so it doesn’t get mixed up with anything else.

Bobby Rettew:
And it’s got a big enough front pocket that I can just throw my sunglasses, and the bag within a bag with all my cables in it. So it’s perfect size and also I love the strap and I love the handle on it. The handle, to me, is very important. It’s comfortable in the hand.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. No, that makes a ton of sense. So that’s probably going to be what most people are carrying, right? I mean, it’s something to carry the laptop back and forth to the office. But I would say make sure it has enough room in there for cables, whether they’re a bag within the bag, or they’re just loose in the bag. But you’ve got a place for earbuds, you’ve got a place for cables. I’ll tell you another little device I like to keep is a headphone splitter so, [inaudible 00:07:53] if we’ve recorded something or somebody needs to hear something, you’re not sharing a pair of earbuds. They can plug their own earbuds in and that kind of a thing. You end up on the airplane with a colleague and they want to watch the movie on the iPad or whatever, that kind of thing.

Reed Smith:
I think it’s handy even though maybe it’s not an every day thing, that there’s room for an iPad plus a laptop, depending on what you’re doing, especially if you’re traveling or something to that effect. I think that’s super helpful.

Bobby Rettew:
And then I’ve got a little bit bigger laptop bag because I have a separate MacBook Pro 15″, right? It’s my powerful, maxed out, every possible high speed gadget built into that thing. That’s my media creator tool, right? So my laptop, the bag for it is bigger. And what I mean by bigger is that it has enough room for the 15″. The one that I use right now is made by Vanguard. And you know how you talked about the yellow inside? This one has orange inside and it’s a black bag, so it’s easy to find things. Of course, I like orange [inaudible 00:09:10]. But to your point, the thing I like about it too is that it’s got the sleeve on the back that you can put over your carry on bag, your suitcase, that you can sit it on top and it slips right over the handle.

Bobby Rettew:
And it has a cover, like your typical bag that you just open the flap, that you open up and when you look in it it’s got a compartment in it for the laptop. But the most important thing for the laptop holder, for me, is it has foam around it, so if I drop my bag it doesn’t destroy my laptop.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. I think that it’s great and somebody may have a favorite bag out there, like I’ve got a great leather bag that my wife gave me when I graduated college, which at this point was almost pre-Internet, but anyway… So it wasn’t made for a laptop, right? It was made for some file folders. Who in the world does that these days? I don’t know. But I can still use that bag, I just have to go get one of those neoprene sleeves or something like that to kind of insert in there to carry the laptop in the bag or what have you. So that’s cool. So you’ve got the every day. You’ve got the every day plus, if you will. So if you know you’re really going to be doing some power editing or need to do some editing or you’re going to be somewhere all day long, you don’t want to get too far away from that production side of the equation, you’ve kind of got that bag, right?

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And the other thing, not to belabor it but, it’s an expandable bag so I can open up the zip and it can double in size quickly. So I can add multiple hard drives into it, portable hard drives. It’s got a place just for your iPad to slip into a slot. So it’s got enough room for cables. It’s got a special zipper area for your thumb drives. And then it’s got a media card holder. So it’s literally dedicated to media cards that you just slip it right in these pockets and it velcros down so you can’t lose it.

Bobby Rettew:
And then it’s got a rain cover built into it so that I can pop it out real quick and cover all the electronics, which I love a lot. So I can make this bag as small or as big as possible. And the key for that is that it can still fit underneath the seat of an airplane. So when I travel I can stick it right at my feet if I want to.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. And I think that’s really important. So, again, understanding why you need a bag, where you’re going to use it, how you’re going to use it is all really important. So what kind of gear you’re going to put in there. It’s one of those things that you bought the bag and then later on you buy the 15″ laptop, it may not fit. It’s going to be super tight depending on what bag you got and things like that. So, again, a lot of it’s personal preference like a lot of this stuff. But I do think securable pockets, whether that’s Velcro, zippers, whatever it may be, the bright colored interior; those are all things that you don’t think a lot about until you start using it.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. The one thing I do do not like about this bag, that I could probably solve pretty quickly, is the strap. The strap has a special cover over the strap that puts on your shoulder to kind of cushion it. And the strap always crinkles up, it wraps up, and it drives into my shoulder. So that’s one downfall. I’m always about comfort. I don’t want it to hurt my shoulder when I’m carrying it, but that’s another personal preference. But we can put links to all this stuff up for people to look at to see what we’ve got.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. We’ll have some links in the show notes, especially based on the recommendations and things like that. All right, so, the other one that I think is becoming more popular that people don’t think a whole lot about. Guys out there have done this for years. And what I’m talking about is a shaving kit, but is a bag that goes inside of another bag, right? So you think about your overnight bag and you’ve got that shaving kit with your razor and tooth brush and all that stuff. My wife, for example, has the makeup bag or whatever it is. You’ve historically had bags that went inside other bags, we’ve just never done it much with our gear, so to speak, and gadgets and things like that. So what do you use? You’ve got a bag inside of a bag. What’s in it?

Bobby Rettew:
So this is one area that I did spend a lot of time researching, is that I carry lots of cables. And what I mean by cables is, it’s not just the power accessories. It is an audio cable. It is a VGA cord connector to the laptop. It’s the iPhone – you know how they took the earphone plug out – so it’s the converter from that to an audio cable. It’s every possible cable that I could need for presentational purposes or video purposes or whatever it may be. And so I really love ThinkTank has these cable management bags that are probably I would say eight inches – some could be as small as six inches by two inches – and they zip up. And they come with these little zip ties, expandable zip ties, that you can wind them up, put them in a bag, and it’s clear so you can see what’s in there on one side.

Bobby Rettew:
And then it does a really good job of fitting into my bags. If I put it on one side of that area of the bag I still have room to put my moleskin on the other side and I can put a business card in it. And so I like them because it allows me to put my connectors, everything for the laptop, inside one place. How about you? What do you use?

Reed Smith:
Yeah. I use something kind of similar. Those that know me, I tinker and build and do some different stuff, and I’ve gotten into leather working over the last several years. And so one of the things I’ve done is I’ve actually created or built kind of my own. So whether they be cable ties or I like what, historically, people thought of as a tool roll. Or you see people with knives in the kitchen. They go in the sleeve and then you roll it up kind of a thing. So I’ve done some things like that that works pretty well. I will say the downside to kind of the tool roll, if you will, is you have to unroll the whole dang thing to get to some stuff, right? And so on an airplane that’s not terribly convenient, whereas if you just had a small zipper bag it’s much easier to just hold that, unzip it, reach in there, pull out what you need, that type of a thing.

Reed Smith:
So, again, I think it depends on how much stuff you need to put in there. I know people that use a Mac laptop, you’ve got kind of the brick that’s kind of the power adapter piece, so that’s going to eat up a fair amount of room. The cables aren’t terribly large and then, too, if you have some of the newer Mac laptops and you’ve got the USB-C ports, well then you need a dongle for everything. So you’re going to have three or four of those. And then you’ve got the ones for your IOS devices and things like that and so it kind of depends. And if you give a lot of presentations maybe you’ve got the little clicker for your PowerPoint slides and those types of things. And so I think those are all things that stay in my bag that are in another bag. And then I kind of add to it with some of the hard drives and stuff like that.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And I also use that ThinkTank management bag inside the bag for things like little tools. I’ve got to have small, little screw drivers, like Philips head and flat and special star-shape for different photo. And also, just to be honest with you, I’ve broken the dadgum screen on my iPhone so many times that I know how to flip it out now. So I can order something, I’ve got the tools, and I can fix it quick. So I keep all that stuff in a little bag along with a lens cleaner that I also use to clean my screen on my laptop. So I keep that stuff in a little bag.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. All right. So let’s talk a little bit about some recommendations. Again, on the consumer end, I would say it’s a bag that’s $50 or less and you like it. It doesn’t do anything specific, right? It probably has a laptop sleeve. It’s more of a messenger bag style or something along those lines. I don’t know if you have a brand that you really like or anything like that but you can go to the Apple store, you can go to Best Buy, and find those types of things, right?

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And even speaking to the ladies here. My wife has some really nice bags that rival what I do but are fashionable. They allow her to put her MacBook in it. She can pop a little handheld camera. Then she can put her wallet and all her other stuff and all the things for the kids in there at the same time. So I think it’s about functionality.

Reed Smith:
It is. And I’ve seen more of those. Actually, you mention that, it’s funny because I’ve seen some of those even in Best Buy. Again, they’re 40, 50 dollars. They’re not terribly expensive but it’s a nicer looking, it’s a larger purse like you see a lot of people carrying. It just happens to have a built in kind of laptop sleeve, a padded sleeve inside of it. So you wouldn’t know that it wasn’t just a regular purse and so you may be able to, not necessarily add another bag, but just alter the one that you’re carrying. So, again, that’s kind of your every day. Again, I like the Topo design. It does have a couple of different features where you can tie stuff onto it and even carry stuff strapped to it, like an umbrella or even a tripod if you really wanted to, I guess. But that’s my current personal preference.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And for a professional side recommendation, I think it’s all about the gear. What are you trying to carry? So you’re probably going to spend 75 to 100 bucks plus, right? It’s got to be durable. It’s also got to fit inside airplanes, right? And so what I mean by airplanes, you’ve got to get in the upper case or below your feet. And you also want to get something that has padding. Who wants to spend another $2500 on a MacBook Pro, right? So it’s got to have padding and is collapsible. I’m all about collapsible or expandable so you can add stuff to it or drop it back down. And then, finally, it’s slick enough that you can walk into a board room meeting and not look like a crazy person, right?

Reed Smith:
Right. Right. And I think for the bag inside of the bag, the bag within if you will. Some bags come with that. You’re talking about expandable bags, some of them have some of that type stuff built in. But I would say go to somewhere like REI or something like that and check out what they have for small shaving kits, dopp kit type stuff. It’s going to be more of that. They’re not leather. They’re not the big, traditional shaving kit kind of a thing. They’re just small bags that aren’t real intrusive. And so you could use one of those and double it as, hey, that’s a great size for cables kind of a thing. Some of those things, think about that too, if that’s kind of more your style.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And I’m a big Manfrotto person. I like a lot of their products. They bought one of my favorite bag companies, that was called Kata, that is from Israel and the reason why they’re so good is that the Israel bags, Kata, could survive a sandstorm. And so Manfrotto bought them. And they’re so durable and they’re also stylish and you can scale them up and scale them down. So I really like to look at those bags and you can find those bags at B&H Photo or on Amazon, and I like those two vendors because, typically, a bag is all about personal preference. They’ll ship it to you, you try it out, you don’t like it, send it right back. So I like their return policy.

Reed Smith:
Very cool. And like I said, it’s all personal preference. Go where you like. There’s enough technology floating around now that everybody’s including ways to carry your laptop and some of that basic stuff. And so to Bobby’s point, however, if you are moving into more of that space where you needed to be carrying a DSLR or tripods, things like that, you’re probably going to have to get more of a specific bag. Maybe from a photo store like B&H if you’ve got one in your local town. Of course, certainly Amazon and things like that, that’s a great way to look at it. Awesome. Awesome. All right. Well, that is another episode down. Talked a little about bags. I’m sure we’ll circle back to this one another time or two in the future.

Reed Smith:
But if you have thoughts, if you have a certain product, a certain type of product you’d like reviewed, like us to take a look at, want more information on, please let us know. Reach out. Of course, subscribe. Surf over to Touch Point dot health. Check out the other shows that we have. And we certainly appreciate your support. He is Bobby Rettew, I am Reed Smith, and we’ll see you next time.

Reed Smith:
This show is made possible in part by the Social Health Institute. Through research and partnerships with healthcare organizations around the country, the Social Health Institute explores new and innovative ways for hospitals, healthcare organizations, to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more about the Social Health Institute visit them online at Social Health Institute dot com. That’s Social Health Institute dot com. This has been a Touch Point Media production. To learn more about this show and others like it please visit us online at Touch Point dot health.

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/07/05/gear-in-review-podcast-gir2-bags/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/07/05/gear-in-review-podcast-gir2-bags/I will always be a journalist, a member of the press!http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/Yyas3icHDaQ/
http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/06/30/my-former-life-as-a-journalist/#respondSat, 30 Jun 2018 21:07:16 +0000http://bobbyrettew.com/?p=8764

I will always be a journalist, a member of the press; even though my last official assignment was in 2007.

I served three great companies Spartan Communications, Meredith Corporation, and Belo Corporation. Inside these organizations I have served WSPA-TV, WYCW-TV, KPHO-TV, WCNC-TV and the numerous other properties associated with their parent organizations including WVEC-TV, KHOU-TV, WFAA-TV, WGCL-TV, and The Dallas Morning News.

I mourn the loss of lives at the Capital Gazette and the hundreds of journalists, individuals serving in the press whom I have met who sacrificed it all to bring us news and information from abroad. All my colleagues who are friends and family have dedicated their professional career and lives to fair and balanced reporting.

This family is dear to me, a career I took and still embrace very seriously since my first job at WSPA-TV…to seek truth and share expediently.

There are many days I miss being on the front lines, but today I not only mourn for the Capital Gazette…I still believe in the commitment to a free press.

I have stood around family and friends who use the term “fake news” freely, as if the newly formed cliche brings meaning to a democratic way of life. It is my hope that when we chat, those understand I served an institution that has been committed since the foundation of this country to provide access to information that is far more reaching than the phrase “fake news”.

I continue to pray for my colleagues and friends across this great nation, who continue work hard to bring the masses news and information. I pray for their safety and their commitment to a fair and balanced press.

Welcome to Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

One of the most common questions asked when we arrive at a client location for a video shoot or interview is, “what do you carry in your bag?”. In this episode we’ll explore what those must carry digital tools are.

—— [TRANSCRIPT] ——

Reed Smith:
Hey everybody, this is Reed Smith.

Chris Boyer:
And this is Chris Boyer.

Reed Smith:
And we are co-hosts on a show called Touchpoint, which is a podcast that’s dedicated to the discussions on digital marketing and online patient engagement strategies. Not only for just hospitals but health systems and physician practices.

Chris Boyer:
In every episode we’ll dive deep into a variety of topics on digital tools, solutions, strategies, and other things that are impacting the healthcare industry today.

Reed Smith:
And while you listen to this show we would certainly love you to check out ours.

Chris Boyer:
All you have to do is swing on over to touchpoint.health for more information and also some of the other shows that are featured on the Touchpoint Media Network.

Reed Smith:
Alright, welcome to Gear In Review. Everyday tools for digital storytellers. I’m Reed Smith and joined as always by Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew:
What’s going on? How’s everybody doing?

Reed Smith:
Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, here we are, episode one. Those that have subscribed at this point, thank you very much. Everybody heard a little bit of the trailer and heard a little bit what we’re going to talk about, but for those that have not, this show, unlike many of our others on the Touchpoint Media Network, is strictly about the tools and the gear and the gadgets and all those kinds of fun things. So less about what to do with them … right? That’s kind of what our other shows are, especially Touchpoint and some of those. It’s more of the philosophically what are we doing and where is the industry going?

Reed Smith:
This is really about the tools that we use and we may get into a little bit of how to use them, but really this is more what are they, why do we use them, why do we need them, that kind of stuff.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. So, I think this is a fun show. Specifically, I’m really excited about today. Just to be honest with you, because so many times do I get asked to speak about what’s in my tool bag. That is the number one topic that I get either hired or asked to come train or whatever it may be. People want to know what’s in my tool bag. And I think Reed … hey, you and I like bags, right? I mean, it’s ridiculous right?

Reed Smith:
Yeah, I’ve got a few of them. I’ve got a few of them. And that’s probably a topic in and of … well I know it is a topic in and of itself that we’ll probably cover one day. So, today we’ll jump in and talk briefly about, okay, what’s all the stuff that we carry around? Specifically the stuff that Bobby carries around to capture good content, to tell good stories, and all that kind of fun stuff. And then in subsequent episodes we’ll actually dig into those items individually, talk about the market, what’s out there, compare against them, what’s good, what’s not good, and just review.

Reed Smith:
So let’s jump in and get started. Specifically about what you, and I may chime in a little bit, but specifically Bobby what do you carry with you on a daily basis when you go out and tell these stories. So, let’s start with … you know, you carry multiple things, but your primary bag. Let’s go through an inventory of what you’ve got in there.

Bobby Rettew:
Well, I think it will help, real quick, to set context. Just a quick … to let people know, I was a photo journalist for many local television stations and network television and my tool bag was my truck. My SUV. And so what I use is what I could fit into a Ford Explorer, Navigator, or Tahoe. And it was always the game is how many lights and how big the camera and how all those things could fit in the back and we could be anywhere we wanted to to collect the story. And now it’s all about, for me, is how much can I fit in one bag to do just what I did even more than that SUV. And so, every day I go somewhere, I make sure that I have a few things in my bag because we never know what we’re going to be doing on a daily basis from content creation.

Bobby Rettew:
And so, my bag could be a small sling bag that holds a camera and a few items that has one zipper, to a big backpack, depending on the needs. But I always have a few things in that bag that is really important to me to do a couple things, capture something visually, capture sound, be able to take that sound, or those video, or those images … photos, so capture photos, and then create content with that and then distribute it on our social and digital networks. And so all those pieces have to be in my bag. And to be able to effectively be a quote, unquote brand journalist. And so, the bag can be big, the bag can be small, but I usually always have a camera, I always have a microphone, I always have a camera that’s either video and/or pictures, and then I also have a laptop or an iPad in that bag. A hard drive. Media cards.

Bobby Rettew:
Those microphones could be a wireless mic that hooks into a camera or it could be a mic that plugs directly into my iPhone that I can record. You know, it could be anything. And then the wires … very important, cables to connect stuff. And then I also carry a small set of tools. And what I mean by tools is a screwdriver, a flat head and a Phillips head, so that if something messes up I can fix it. Lens cleaner. You know, nice little cloth. And then I always carry my book of instructions. So I have a little book of instructions for any piece of hardware that I have and I always carry a notepad everywhere I go. And so at any point in time you can open that up and you can find all those tools.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. I think that’s a great point. So you’ve got … categorically you have something to capture content with, you have something to edit and distribute the content with, but also something in there that I think people don’t think about, or are kind of those periphery pieces, so the backup, having some way to backup media while onsite. Because again, you could potentially, depending on your circumstance, you might end up in a scenario where you’ve filled up a memory card or something like that. You don’t want to get stuck where you don’t have any way to create or capture more content without leaving and coming back. And then those small things like, you mentioned lens cleaner. Another one’s batteries. So don’t get caught somewhere and … inevitably the Lavalier mic battery or the this or that … you know, that’s all going to be dead by the time you need it.

Reed Smith:
Mine’s a little bit different. But things like little controls for power-point slides and stuff like that. But anyway making sure you have some backup batteries and stuff like that.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. And to your point, I also carry items to display. So, as communicators, as we collect content, we create content, we distribute content, we sometimes even have to walk into the boardroom of a hospital or organization and be able to plug into a display and share what we’ve done. And so I have a little bag inside the bag of all those connectors. You know, connect you iPhone into the LCD display, my iPad, or my laptop into that display. So the reason why I do carry all those types of connectors is there’s been a situation when I was teaching a full day on storytelling and lo and behold my laptop crashed and luckily the slide deck was in keynote on Dropbox and so all I had to do was pull out my iPad, pull my little … out of my tool bag, just a little connector to plug my laptop into the display and I kept on going.

Bobby Rettew:
So, the goal here is that we’ve got to have all the little tools packaged so that they’re easily organized and we can pull them out and use them very quickly.

Reed Smith:
So here’s another kind of pro tip that I’ve learned is … you talked about cables and things like that. When you’re packing up and getting ready to go somewhere, always pack your charger and your cables first. You’re never going to walk off and leave your laptop, but if you pack the laptop first and then you get distracted, you’re going to forget to pack a charger or something like that. So, anyway, that’s free. That’s a tip.

Bobby Rettew:
Well, I’m going to take it one step further. Every bag has a charger.

Reed Smith:
Yeah there you go.

Bobby Rettew:
Like, my Mac Book, I have five Mac Book chargers, one for each bag. I have … for each bag has a Mac Book charger, an iPhone charger, all those connectors, because I am the worst culprit of taking one thing out and putting it in another bag and forgetting I’m doing that. So I just buy things for all bags.

Reed Smith:
Yeah there you go.

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah. Even when I travel on a plane, my carry-on, which is my clothes bag, has all those connectors in it too.

Reed Smith:
Yeah I think that’s a great tip. It’s funny when I … the first hospital that I went to I remember when I got there we did have a digital camera in the marketing department, a digital camera, and it would hold eight pictures. And I remember I upgraded the camera. It’s one of the first things I did and I think it held 32 pictures or something like that and it was like, you know, how would you ever use this much space? You know, kind of a thing. Anyways, hilarious, as our media’s gotten bigger, storage is becoming more important and ultimately the technology is physically getting smaller. So you can get away with some of these smaller bags and things like that.

Reed Smith:
So, again, we’re going to get into all these individual items like cameras, tripods, lighting, all that kind of good stuff in future episodes. But wanted to briefly touch on what Bobby carries onsite to capture and so you may be going to shoot video, but that doesn’t mean you’re not taking items to capture audio. So to your point, who knows what’s going to come up or what opportunities are going to present themselves and to be prepared.

Reed Smith:
What we also want to do in each of these episodes is leave you with some basic recommendations of … you know, for people that are just wanting to initially put some of this together, maybe you’re more on the marketing side of the house and not doing a ton, and maybe you even have production agency capabilities and things like that that you bring in, but you want to put together something. Well, what is that more consumer, in this case, what’s the more consumer kit that you can put together. And then if you’ve already done that and you want to kind of step it up, what is that next step and then ultimately kind of what’s that pro level?

Reed Smith:
So, maybe let’s transition a little bit and talk a little bit along those lines of what are those four or five items everybody should have handy with them? Even if they’re just walking down because it’s employee of the month and it’s down in the cafeteria or whatever it may be. What do they need to be carrying with them?

Bobby Rettew:
Yeah, so, couple things that I think of right of the hand. For marketing people, your iPhone is your best friend right now. I tell all my broadcast journalist friends that if I had an iPhone X in the days … back in the day when I was a journalist, I would absolutely work circles around people. And so I find ways to use that iPhone in multiple facets. So your iPhone is your friend. So how can you build on the iPhone? Number one, a gimbal. DJI has a great little gimbal that you can shoot video with that’s 140 bucks. And it is … can fit in a bag, in a pocketbook, or anything. And you can use it to capture video and it looks beautiful. It makes it stable when you’re walking around.

Bobby Rettew:
Second thing that I would encourage people to have is something that you can, basically, back that media up. You never know whether if you’re using your camera or your iPhone or whatever it may be, but have a way to get those photos and those videos off your phone, into a Dropbox or into a place to back it up. The reason why I say that is, you can drop your phone of the cliff or lay it on the ground and someone accidentally steps on it, you know, something happens and that media’s gone. I always make sure that I backup my media. All the time. I’m really intentional on that.

Bobby Rettew:
And then finally, I would say if you’re a marketing person, when it comes to … if you’re going to use your phone as your place to do this, have a really good understanding of the apps on your phone to use. Don’t let it be the first time you’re doing it when you’re trying to do a story. Make sure you understand what those apps are. And from a consumer or prosumer, you know if it’s iMovie or Adobe or just the basic picture function has a lot of photo editing capabilities. Know how to use it, know how to use it quickly.

Bobby Rettew:
So, that’s something I would say is, how can you use the tools in your hand, stay as portable as possible, know the stuff as quick as possible, and be able to use them quickly and efficiently to get it out to your networks.

Reed Smith:
Awesome. So, smartphone. Preferably an iPhone X, at least at this day and age, understand the apps that are on there and again, we’ll get into more of that kind of stuff. Maybe it’s a subscription to Dropbox or something like that, but some sort of a backup scenario where you can get the media off your device. And then some level of stability. And so there’s some little gimbals and things out there. Even some little things that you can use to attach your phone to a tripod, for example, or whatever it may be. So, I think that’s great.

Reed Smith:
So for those wanting to kind of take that next step, where do you go from an iPhone X? What’s kind of that next realm?

Bobby Rettew:
Well, I try to encourage people not to buy a video camera or a still camera. Buy a multipurpose camera. So, I use Canon products and I like their Canon DSLRs and usually they have video built in to them. Buy something that allows you to take pictures and also can do video, and also has wifi built into that camera, so that you can transfer that media either to your phone to edit, or into your laptop. We are in a place where we want to share information quickly. So, the camera has to be, number one, easy to use. So it fits in your hands well.

Bobby Rettew:
You can do multiple things with it and you can get it out of the camera to distribute it very quickly. So, a DSLR is a great start. Something that’s a small … an entry level like a Sony, a basic Sony camera that has video and photo capability with wifi so that you can distribute it out, or a Canon, or a Nikon. Something that’s very basic that allows you to do all those things and then distribute the media quickly.

Reed Smith:
So I think that … yeah, that’s great. And that makes a ton of sense. And they make some amazing cameras that have a lot of great … and I’m saying this in layman’s terms, but kind of auto functionality where you don’t have to be an expert and understand what aperture and shutter speed and some of that stuff is, and still be able to capture some really great content. So I think that makes a ton of sense.

Reed Smith:
Alright, so those are two great recommendations. The third category, kind of pro category. Maybe it’s somebody that just … you know, this is their hobby or they’re really wanting to dedicate more time to this. From a content capture standpoint and maybe even just something that should go in the bag that’s a little on that higher end, what do you recommend?

Bobby Rettew:
There are two things that I have as go to in my bag all the time, from a professional standpoint. Number one, I shoot with a Canon DSLR, a 5D Mark III, it’s pro end of the prosumer range. And the reason why I like that camera is that it shoots on two cards at the same time. So I can shoot on a big card SD where I can get the raw files, but it also does a smaller, lower res jpeg as a backup. So, it allows you to capture images in two places simultaneously. And I’m big on backup. It shoots beautiful 1080P video. It shoots 25 megapixel images. It shoots up to, I think, eight frames per second and great auto function and it does really well.

Bobby Rettew:
Second thing is I really, really love my Shure mic that … I think it’s the MV88 that you can plug into your iPhone and record quality audio. The reason why I like this is because many times we’re writing blogs and we want to go ask questions and sometimes we’re trying to take notes, well that MV88 does a great job of recording in noisy places, good crisp audio. And you can take that audio file and push it up to places like a rev.com to have it transcribed. And once you have it transcribed in 24 hours, there’s your blog post.

Bobby Rettew:
So, those are simple tools that allows you to capture things quickly and to turn it around quickly.

Reed Smith:
Very cool. Well those are great recommendations. Again, we’re just getting started. I hope you’ll subscribe, continue to listen as we dig in to a lot of these different types of technology and gadgets and certainly would love your feedback so please reach out to us if there’s things you’re considering, wanting to know more about, would like us to just review or talk more about. We can certainly do that. So for Bobby Rettew, I’m Reed Smith and we will see you next time with more Gadgets In Review.

Reed Smith:
This show is made possible, in part, by the Social Health Institute. Through research and partnerships with healthcare organizations around the country the Social Health Institute explores new and innovative ways for hospitals, healthcare organizations, to develop and enhance their social media and digital marketing strategy. To learn more about the Social Health Institute visit them online at socialhealthinstitute.com. That’s socialhealthinstitute.com.

Reed Smith:
This has been a Touchpoint Media production. To learn more about this show and others like it please visit us online at Touchpoint.health.

Introducing Gear In Review. Learn more about how we’ll be bringing reviews, recommendations and insights around the many gadgets, gizmos, and widgets used everyday to capture and tell stories inside hospitals.

—— [TRANSCRIPT] ——

Reed Smith:
Welcome to Gear in Review. I’m Reed Smith and joined by Bobby Rettew.

Bobby Rettew:
What’s up? How you doing?

Reed Smith:
Good. This is a new show from Touchpoint Media and unlike our others this is going to have always bit of a different slant to it don’t you think ? Oh yeah, we’re going to talk about gadgets. We all like gadgets, tons of gadgets. Gadgets from photography drones all the way down to eyeless apps, fun things that we like to buy all the time.

Bobby Rettew:
That’s right. We all get asked, probably you more than others of what’s in the tool kit, what’s in the bag? Why do we use what we use? And so this will be less about should you and how should you, but more about what it is and where you can find it. Maybe some recommendations for those getting started, those a little bit further down the path and then obviously stuff that slants a little bit more towards, I guess maybe the pro end of the spectrum.

Reed Smith:
Yeah. So join us. We’re going to talk about lots of different types of gadgets, gear, bags. I’m a big bag fan. I’m always about bags but what’s most important is what is in the bag and what we use when we collect content, tell stories, live in this world of digital and just have fun with gadgets. So join us.

Bobby Rettew:
Tune in. Grab this wherever you get your podcast, subscribe and you can always check out this and all of our other shows over at Touchpoint.health.

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/06/26/gear-in-review-podcast-trailer-introduction/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/06/26/gear-in-review-podcast-trailer-introduction/I have walked across the border so many times. #immigrationhttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/J3YPERyd-FA/
http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/06/19/crossing-the-border/#respondTue, 19 Jun 2018 20:33:44 +0000http://bobbyrettew.com/?p=8758

I have walked across the border, the Mexican/USA border so many times…I have lost count. Immigration is very personal to me. I have been called to bring my camera to remote areas outside of Nogales, Arizona…to have my camera ready as Border Patrol open the back of the Ryder trucks; to capture the scared faces of young children and families whose long ride has stopped for us to share with the world.

I have traveled in vans with Coyotes down long dirt roads from inside Mexico, documenting the passage, the trail to the US. I have stared down the barrels of Mexicali’s M16s as they stop each van, question each person, wanting payoff money for their next meal.

I have interviewed so many young men as they find their way across the border en-route to the Carolinas for work, the same work we choose not to do because it is beneath our white privilege.

I have cried under the crosses at the border, the hundreds of cross showcasing those who have died during their travels to the land of the free. I have seen the camps in McAllen, Texas where young children wait…hundreds wait to learn what is next for them. Many of these children ranging from toddlers to teenagers left by their parents at the border in hopes the Border Patrol will take them to a place free from crime and poverty.

I have walked the roads where their are rocks left as markers, indicating check points for vans to pick up those traveling to California, New Mexico, and the Carolinas. I have seen the liter, the left over syringes from meth and other drugs used by Coyotes to keep the groups moving.

I have interviewed the Border Patrol units who are assigned to search and rescue during the summer months, when the temperatures are 110 degrees. They know, children are walking in the summer heat with little to no water…their human decency and empathy forge their every move to search and rescue.

I have documented the stories of land owners who have property on either side of the border, threatened by the Mexican cartels to keep quiet as they bring drugs through their private passages and fields where their families sleep.

The border is more than a wall…it is an institution. Immigration is an institution. The border is bigger than we can imagine funding private prisons holding children, funding Coyotes who slave drive people from Central America to the US, providing jobs, securing commerce, attracting public policy makers and national politics eager to show who has an answer.

The border is bigger than a Facebook debate, bigger than Twitter fight, bigger than a Congressional Committee Meeting with follow-up soundbites for the national media outlets…it is a institution that will forever divide this nation unless we commit ourselves to dig just a little deeper. Why has immigration become so polarizing?

We must ask…how and why!? We must ask more than why are these children in these holding facilities…we must ask how did they get here? Why were they separated from their families, and whose choice was it to make the separation between parent and child. Were they left at the border by their families for border patrol to pick-up? Were they left in the desert because their parents did not make it? Where did they come from, what countries, what continent, what reason? Why is all the sudden we are just now outraged…have we been blinded by the misinformation we believe as Big “T” truths?

Tonight, I think about the mother I met who spent months walking from Guatemala, who crossed the Rio Grande in McAllen, Texas…pregnant. What made her leave her home to walk through numerous countries while pregnant? What made her make this long journey to the US? I think about her child as she was detained and left in a holding cell for days as she began to have contractions. What makes a mother risk her life and the life of her child to travel all this way…for what?

I do not have the answers, but I sure have captured the stories. Maybe we should start listening to more stories ourselves…it might help us create sensible policy that works for all. These stories haunt me, remind me of my freedoms everyday, ones that I should not take for granted. There are many who are willing to risk their life for a little slice of my freedom.

What does your freedom look like, and are you willing to listen to others who are willing to risk it all for a little slice of our freedom?

It has been almost a year and this is the first time in one year that I had the energy to sit-up after putting the twins to bed, watch a game and get a little work done. George and Henry turn one on June 10th…yes! OMG!

For the past year, I have been exhausted…extremely tired. This post-40 life has not only kicked my butt, but having twins has flipped everything upside down. Research shows that men take a huge dip after 40 and is more apparent around 44. No energy, mood swings, lack of drive, and just finding the energy to make it past 8pm is excruciating!

Combine all this with having twins after 40 and you know the result. My creativity “spring” has been a dried up lakebed with cracks all the way through my mental state.

If I am tired…then I know Sarah has to be extremely exhausted. She is beyond amazing…she is the CEO of Twin CEO’s…she has an endurance beyond belief.

Recently I hit a breaking point. From my mood swings, exhaustion, and the impact on my creativity…it was time to make some changes and I have started that process.

But what I have realized…there is no such thing as work/life balance. This cliche is such marketing ploy encouraging employers that we Americans work too damn much, that is time to balance work with life at home. There is more than just balance…the is a whole spectrum of forces that keep the human psyche out of sync. This past Feb 3rd, I had a conversation with a physician on Twitter. She said this as it relates to this idea of work/life balance, and it has been bouncing around in my mind ever since.

Work-Life “balance” is a misnomer. “Balance” implies they are opposing forces. This only sets you up to feel like a failure. I am a better surgeon for being a mom, & better mom for being a surgeon. Family, hobbies, pastimes maintain our humanity.

Today was the day where the beginning of this new lifestyle is starting to take shape. I walked in the house to my bigger life…my four main responsibilities; Sarah, Rose, George, and Henry. There is no such thing as balance between four people you love…it is about inclusiveness. How can I be present and make myself become more inclusive in their lives. How can I make my career inclusive inside the lives of the people I love and how can prioritize all the relevant responsibilities starting with family, career, volunteering, civic commitments, and….my mental, physical, and emotional health.

Inclusiveness…being present…I am truly beginning to listen to my inner me. This journey has just begun and I have lots to learn.

My body is slowly recuperating. I am finally catching up to the sleep we lost during the first six months of the twin’s lives. During those six months, we barely had more than 2.5 hours of consistent sleep each night. We barely have experienced true down time to allow our mental, emotional, and physical state actually begin to recuperate

My spirit is slowly becoming renewed and it is my hope that as I slowly find what it means to be Bobby again…that I will find a new inclusive lifestyle. This inclusive approach supports a career minded professional whose single income household is underwritten by the business side of creativity, committed to becoming a more loving husband, caring father, and present human being in the lives of the people I love.

If you look around, Greenville is growing, the Upstate of SC is growing…and growing fast…with tremendous economic development.

With this growth comes the concern, how to fill jobs to meet the demand. Employers can’t find enough employees with a 3.5% unemployment rate and about 10,000 job openings in Greenville County.

There are many questions:

How is it possible that 14.3% of county residents live in poverty?

What factors are keeping people from a livable wage and employers from finding qualified people to do the work?

And if we don’t figure this out, what impact will it have right here in Greenville County?

As more urban areas continue to see a boom in growth, residents with lower incomes are pushed into parts of the county that may be farther from jobs and transportation. As people are located further from their jobs, more congestion on highways, longer commutes…slowing the movement of freight to and from our manufacturers.

How does this growth connect with workforce development?

How about Anderson County? Will Anderson follow in Greenville’s footsteps? Anderson has it’s own issues with a smaller pool of skilled labor and a massive push from economic development to attract more manufacturers.

As I walk my twins in their stroller from my house downtown Anderson, I encounter the huge infrastructure issue first-hand. Road are horrible, sidewalks are horrible, and with the expected growth I begin to wonder how Anderson will begin to consider the issues that Greenville County is trying to face.

I know this much…I am beginning to second guess my decision to open an office for Gray Digital Group in downtown Anderson. It took me over a year to get a high speed Internet connection for my office on Sharpe Street. I almost lost my most valuable asset, my workforce…because of lack of available housing for these single Millennial workers.

How do we attract a young, entrepreneurial workforce to Anderson county when the roads suck, the housing is less than desirable, and there is little connectivity for these individuals in the local business community.

We are challenged! Greenville is growing way to fast and Anderson can’t keep up!

I helped the Greenville Partnership for Philanthropy Forum with Greenville County Council to quickly (in less that a week) produce a few videos outlining the challenges in Greenville County. I wonder if Anderson needs to join these discussions?

In honor of Nurses Week, I thought I would share a list…you know your mom is a nurse when:

1) Your birthday presents are wrapped with surgical tape.
2) You have not gone to your PCP in over two years.
3) You have slept in a hospital bed as a child.
4) You open the refrigerator and their is always a stock of flu shots.
5) You know how to suture your own cuts.
6) When you travel, you have a separate toiletry bag for meds…just in-case.
7) You always carry phenergan, amoxicillin, and Zithromax.
8) You know how to read a physicians writing.
9) You are not scared of needles and can give yourself a shot.
10) You call your mom before you go to the emergency room, because she might divert you to her house.
11) You know how to clean and fix simple cuts and you have all the right items to do so.
12) The sight of blood does not scare you or make your stomach queasy, it actually intrigues you.
13) You know how to find your way around a hospital.
14) Your summer jobs included being a patient transport.
15) Your sister follows her mother to become a nurse, and you would eventually work in healthcare advocating for nurses.
16) You grow up knowing that Florence Nightingale is a super star and thus your mother; just like Michael Jordan.

For over a year, I have been working on a project that has truly challenged and stretched my capabilities in new and exciting ways. I was part of a creative team who partnered with South Carolina Hospital Association (SCHA) to launch a national brand…and it was a lot of fun.

The for-profit arm of South Carolina Hospital Association previously known as Healthcare Staffing Services (HSS) was rebranded as Qualivis. This rebrand was necessary to further align the goals of HSS positioning the new Qualivis as a national provider of healthcare workforce solutions. This process involved lots of teams and thought leadership including internal staff at SCHA, internal staff at HSS, external thought leaders like Tim Floyd who was the former Creative Director from Palmetto Health, Cathy Sams who was the Chief Information Officer at Clemson University and the team at Gray Digital Group for the digital research and overhaul. There were lots of smart people working extremely hard to bring this brand to life.

Bottomline, Qualivis helps hospitals with supplemental staff majority of which are traveling nurses. Qualivis is growing with larger goals to help hospitals with so many more workforce solutions, many of which include nurses. This all began as a workforce grant by The Duke Endowment back in 2001 as they were on the forefront recognizing the upcoming nursing shortage. My mom graduated from Clemson’s Nursing Program in 1990 while I was in high school. I remember the sleepless nights as she studied then get up for work and get us out to school.

My mom is now a nurse practitioner and because of this, I have a passion for the nursing profession. She raised me and my sister as a staff nurse at Greenville Health System. My mom embodies this new company name.

The Qualivis name was a created name combing three tenants: Quality, Life and Vision.

Vision – Help facilities plan for the workforce challenges of tomorrow — today.

If you combine the three…you find Qualivis. It was my job to help tell the Qualivis story! As I thought about each one of those tenants, I thought about my mother and her life as a nurse. I thought about how she worked hard to provide quality care to the patients she served, her commitment to a work-life balance with two children at home, and her vision for the future as she prepared for the workforce of tomorrow.

I took this story and brought it to life through video. When you watch these videos, you will see my mother’s path in the nurse showcased in the videos.

I hope you walk away knowing there are nurses out there every day striving to bring quality healthcare to you as a patient; they not only believe in their patients but also committed to their families as they balance work and life, and they believe in quality healthcare for tomorrow.

As we celebrate nurses week, I celebrate the following:

The numerous nurses that took care of Rose, George and Henry at both AnMed Health and Greenville Health System.

The numerous nurses that took care of Sarah when she gave birth to our children.

The numerous nurses that took care of me over the many years inside and outside of the hospital.

The nurses of hospice who provided quality care at the bedside when many of my family members passed away.

The numerous nurses I have encountered as a healthcare communicator across the hundreds of hospitals I have visited in Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Texas.

My sister who is a nurse at Medical University of South Carolina.

My mother who raised two children while going back to school to complete her BSN, then going back to school to complete her MSN and FNP, then retiring and still has the calling to serve patients in South Carolina.

We should be so honored to be served by quality nurses like my mother, my sister, the thousands of nurses in South Carolina, and the thousands of nurses Qualivis helps place in thirteen states across the country. Happy Nurses Week…we should be celebrating you all year long.

We have been there before, in a meeting preparing to create a great healthcare communication campaign. We write the strategy and determine the tactics including many visual elements: video, imagery, social media posts, digital billboards. etc. It is time to schedule the video and photo shoots requiring the need to hire and recruit individuals to be featured in the photo and video deliverables.

You can feel it coming, and you have this undercurrent of worry. The photo and video sessions go really well, capturing lots of great content for the campaign. Then the bomb drops, you are reviewing all the great content and a voice in the room silences everyone, “you did not capture enough people of color.”

Everything…I mean everything comes to a complete…grinding halt. As you look around the room you notice a few things:

Everyone is a loss of words.

Pressure of the deadline looming invades the facial expressions of the team.

You notice majority of the team members working on the campaign are not people of color.

I have experienced “this room” before! One memory always stays with me. It happened a few years ago while someone from leadership reviewing content created for the campaign, they asked, “where is the token black person.” As a vendor…I honestly froze and did not know how to respond.

Health equity starts at the top and is a cultural approach within every facet how the organization operates; all the way down to how you represent the organization through communications and outreach.

But I have a huge question, one that I grapple with across every piece of communication I create, what is the appropriate mix of people inside each piece communication? What ratios should be honored in each photo, each video, each voice for each piece of communication? How does each piece of communication best represent the organization and all the stakeholders: patients, employees, volunteers, community partners, vendors and the list goes on and on.

Here is another question, when someone looks at communication from outside an organization; what visual cues will determine whether the videos, photos, billboard, social media post or digital ad visually represent the demographic make-up inside and outside the walls? What indicator forces consumers to raise “red flags”?

The Color of Us
I think about a book that is a part of Rosebud’s nighttime reading routine, “The Color of Us” by Karen Katz. It talks about all the different shades of skin color. As we read each page, a different shade of skin color is associated to a noun children understand. Different shades of skin are discussed including caramel, peachy tan, and cocoa brown; as we flip each page Rosebud names someone in her class that has each color. She looks at peachy tan and says my skin looks peachy tan.

As I read this book with her, I think…should I bring this book with me each time I start a video or photo project; requiring the team to define the different skin colors we will include? Or, should we be talking about our diverse population beyond the walls of color; specifically to include people with disabilities, different genders including transgender, ages, and color of hair?

My point here, when we are thinking and planning to intentionally communicate and engage our communities; how are we truly engaging in health equity? Is it an afterthought? Do we wait until the last minute to realize that we did not include a diverse population in our communications; a mixture of people that accurately represents the stakeholders and communities of the organization? Have we had serious conversations surrounding the ratios and percentage breakdowns of the organizations’s populations and when to appropriately represent each population within each piece of outreach?

Before we can have those conversations within the initial strategy sessions, we have to look within. What do the internal teams look like; yes, the teams that are working on these communication initiatives? It starts within! We cannot create communication without representation from diverse communities on the team. We have to be more inclusive on the inside to best communicate on the outside.

Looking in the Mirror
A few years ago, I was part of a communications board creating a large, regional communications conference. We spent over a year planning this conference with a great team of hard working, dedicated professionals volunteering their time. The call for speakers was complete and the team was sitting down to finalize the website including headshots from each speaker.

During the soft launch to local membership, we received a extremely upset email. The communication professional was interested in the event, but wanted to know why no one matched her skin color in the speaker line-up. The board panicked, and knew we had to do something. It was four weeks from the conference; we wondered…how do we create a more diverse speaker list when your budget is spent and speaker contracts and educational tracks are complete.

We had to stop and look within, there was not a single person of color on the planning committee; a committee created from a board of professionals with only two people of color represented. The board had to look within and embrace the lack of inclusion; then begin to systematically re-define what it means to intentionally engage the broader membership. The person that wrote the letter was asked to join the board and help us with this very hard question.

Health equity: Health equity is attainment of the highest level of health for all people. Achieving health equity requires valuing everyone equally with focused and ongoing societal efforts to address avoidable inequalities, historical and contemporary injustices, and the elimination of health and health care disparities.

As healthcare communicators, we must create communication that embraces inclusion at the most fundamental level engaging each member of our communities “in which people are born, live, learn, work, play, worship, and age that affect a wide range of health, functioning, and quality-of-life outcomes and risks.”

Social determinants of health: Social determinants of health are conditions in the environments in which people are born, live, learn, work, play, worship, and age that affect a wide range of health, functioning, and quality-of-life outcomes and risks.

Facebook just release their new Community Standards outlined here in this link. This is most likely a response to Mark Zuckerberg’s Congressional Hearings early April 2018. One thing that I took away from these proceedings, a critique on the necessity for users to have easy access to their Privacy Settings and also making Facebook’s Terms of Service (ToS) more consumer friendly.

During these proceedings, I called my partner Reed Smith and predicted that Facebook would take their Terms of Service (ToS), rewrite, and make it more consumer facing. Healthcare organizations should be on notice, this is a huge opportunity for growth across the healthcare industry.

We have spent years and years working with organizations, including healthcare, insuring they create a set of community standards (rules, guidelines, etc) that is not only consumer facing on their website and also easy to understand.

I have questions…so many questions:

Is posting a privacy policy enough?

If you have built a community on social media, should you have rules? Should these rules be called rules?

If you have a set of community standards outlining how you expect the community to interact, should the language of the community rules empower equity?

Does the use of terms rules and guidelines contradict the idea these communication tools do not embrace health equity?

Every day, people come to Facebook to share their stories, see the world through the eyes of others, and connect with friends and causes. The conversations that happen on Facebook reflect the diversity of a community of more than two billion people communicating across countries and cultures and in dozens of languages, posting everything from text to photos and videos.

We recognize how important it is for Facebook to be a place where people feel empowered to communicate, and we take our role in keeping abuse off our service seriously. That’s why we have developed a set of Community Standards that outline what is and is not allowed on Facebook. Our Standards apply around the world to all types of content. They’re designed to be comprehensive – for example, content that might not be considered hate speech may still be removed for violating our bullying policies.

The goal of our Community Standards is to encourage expression and create a safe environment. We base our policies on input from our community and from experts in fields such as technology and public safety. Our policies are also rooted in the following principles: Safety, Voice, and Equity.

Did you notice something, the language is framed in a voice of inclusion, where everyone has a voice. And, Facebook outlines three principles that include equity.

Should we as healthcare communicators use this approach inside our community standards for our healthcare organizations? How about public institutions like public colleges?

Almost 60% of organizations were reportedly supportive or very supportive of the use of digital technologies. Half of respondents, however, noted the presence of organizational barriers such as blocked social media and websites; restrictive security and privacy policies; limited direct access; complex approval processes; and technological barriers.

Now this is referring specifically to technological barriers inside the healthcare organizations, blocking social media sites for both the public and/or employees.

I wondered, how many hospitals in South Carolina actually have the following:

Social Media Guidelines

Social Media Community Guidelines

Blog Commenting Policies

I found only five health systems in South Carolina with some type of social media community guidelines outlining how they (as a healthcare organization) will use social media and what is expected of the community when engaging on social media.

All of these healthcare systems, except for Providence Health, use the language “guidelines.” Providence Health uses the term “policy”.

Would you suspect that using the terminology rules or guidelines is an exclusive approach to engaging a community? I would probably submit these rules or guidelines were written a few years ago when most health systems were trying craft and conceptulize their digital communication(s) and social media strategy? As these social media communities inside healthcare systems have grown creating large equitable communities; do you think it is time to rethink and re-imagine how to engage the digital communities at-large?

If health equity and a commitment to inclusion increases across health systems, I wonder if it is time to do the following:

Create digital communication and social media community guidelines that are accessible from the homepage of the healthcare organizations website.

Re-imagine the language of these community standards to address health equity, safety, and community voice.

Re-imagine health organizations’ digital communication and social media strategy to become a health resource to all communities they serve. This includes communities regardless of race, class, ethnicity, disability, and/or geography.

Open access to social media platforms inside healthcare organizations, so all communities served can access information relevant to their health.

Begin regular training sessions across the healthcare organization; teaching healthcare professionals best practices when engaging communities on social media. BTW, Mayo Clinic is the leader in this space!

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/04/24/facebook-community-standards-health-equity-and-sdoh/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/04/24/facebook-community-standards-health-equity-and-sdoh/Understanding the intersection of social media, health equity and social determinants of healthhttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/7hJZ_wkl3sw/
http://bobbyrettew.com/2018/04/17/understanding-the-intersection-of-social-media-health-equity-and-social-determinants-of-health/#respondTue, 17 Apr 2018 18:11:34 +0000http://bobbyrettew.com/?p=8699

A few years ago I began researching health equity and social determinants of health (SDoH) mainly as result of my intentionality to join the diversity and inclusion conversation inside healthcare organizations.

The more and more I have researched, the more conversations I have shared with thought leaders, the more my interest has grown. I have specifically become intrigued by the intersection between SDoH and the use of social media inside healthcare organizations.

“Social determinants of health (SDoH), much discussed among practitioners and academics in the field of Public Health, refer to the those things outside of the health care system, that affect people’s health. These determinants – things like povery, education, gender, ethnicity, employment, and the communities we live in – affect our health a lot more than the healthcare system does. In fact, they are estimated to account for about ~75% of our health, whereas healthcare only accounts for about ~25%. So it makes sense that if we want to have a better understanding of what’s affecting people’s lives, we have to understand what their lives are like. And given that so many people are on social media, it makes sense to use these tools to reach people where they are at. “

Health organizations use social media as an “effective way to expand their reach, foster engagement, and increase access to credible, science-based health messages.” This creates the opportunity for ongoing dialogue, knowledge exchange, and the integration of social media into public health activities. Public health is using social media to mobilize knowledge and enhance the use of research evidence; inform, educate, and empower people about health issues; assess public perception; increase rapid access to public health messaging during emergency and non-emergency situations; mobilize community partnerships and action; and collect surveillance data. Social media allows messages to be audience specific and distributed more widely, and promotes the democratization of knowledge and information.

This struck me and honestly excited me; researchers like Sume Ndumbe-Eyoh and are now creating thought leadership explaining that healthcare communicators should be looking beyond healthcare marketing and communications walls when leveraging social media, we should use it as an opportunity to empower our communities “inform, educate, and empower people about health issues.”

This research indicates a specific goal, “to assess how digital technology, including social media, was being used to support action on the SDH and health equity. Furthermore, we were interested in how public health used these tools for knowledge translation, relationship building, and in specific public health roles to advance health equity.”

Why is this important? To me…it is important as a communicator that social media is more than just marketing and public relations; for healthcare organizations it is knowledge transfer and providing access to information across all social, demographic, and geographic corridors. Social media can and should be used to bridge gaps; giving individual patients access to information previously restricted based on traditional boundaries.

This community’s mission is as follows: “The Private Community for Healthy Way is created to provide you with a safe and convenient place for support in working towards your healthy lifestyle. You can come here to ask questions, seek advice from the dietitian, and share your thoughts with other members of the group.”

This group is being used to connect dietitians with cancer patients who live in geographic areas that create a barriers for regular appointments. This group allows patients to share recipes with each other and ask questions to the the certified dietitian who manages this private group. Before joining the group, patients are required to sign a release form and understand that Facebook information can be shared even though it is called a secret group. But, it allows patients to use their mobile phone to access the group and quickly connect with other patients and the dietitian to have almost instant conversations.

2) Mayo Clinic’s use of YouTube Strategy.

Mayo Clinic does a wonderful job titling many of their videos using the disease specific name with a physician talking about this specific disease or condition. This allows those searching for information to easily find information about a specific disease, connecting the patient with a physician talking about this disease answering basic questions. I think of the many patients that just received a very specific diagnosis and want to learn more about the medical terms surrounding their disease. Mayo Clinic has embraced the opportunity to engage audiences regardless of where they live, regardless of their socio-economic status, regardless of their gender and religious beliefs to find information as it relates directly to their health…immediately. Social media connects patients with information.

These are only a few the connections I have found over the last ten years, but leads me to think about one of the conclusions Sume Ndumbe-Eyoh’s shared in her research:

Social media was second only to websites as a source of information on the SDoH and health equity in the 2016 survey, and its ranking is on the rise when compared to the earlier survey. This indicates that social media platforms are becoming an increasingly important source of information for public health practitioners and researchers. The use of primarily visual social media tools like Instagram and Pinterest was very low and there is room here for significant uptake in public health. Engaging with these tools is important, especially given the proliferation of seemingly health enhancing content on these platforms. Given the rise in social media use, it is essential to populate these spaces with timely, credible, and reliable information.

Healthcare organizations need to begin looking at their social media goals and re-aline with their commitment to the community they serve. I have a few questions for those healthcare organizations we serve:

Is your healthcare organizations using social media as the “catch-all” for healthcare marketing and public relations messages?

Have you considered using social media to provide content to the community that positions your healthcare organization as a thought leader and is that content “timely, credible, and reliable information”?

Should social media become strategic goal when addressing health equity in the community?

Many healthcare organizations struggle with the use of social media and even block access within the walls of their organization. Many organizations share concerns with HIPAA and privacy, workplace productivity, and even IT related concerns. Are these healthcare organizations truly commitred to best practices in health equity and addressing all the communities they serve and their social determinants of health? Is social media an opportunity or a barrier to addressing these issues?

Sume Ndumbe-Eyoh’s research also shares:

While many organizations support social media use, practices such as blocked sites and ambiguous or slow organizational approvals may restrict access and use. Investing in clear enabling policies will allow organizations to expand their reach, and foster interactions and engagement. Moving forward, the adoption and evaluation of social media usage will need to be faster and more flexible than is currently the case.

I even conclude that Sume Ndumbe-Eyoh’s statement above extends all the way to the arena of engaging communities on social media by having a clear strategy to address positive, negative, and neutral social media comments and reviews. I wonder, how many healthcare organizations take their reviews seriously?

8 States / 1061 Hospitals
– 198,650 Facebook Reviews with an average of 4.17 out of 5
– 54,776 Google Reviews with an average score of 3.04 out of 5
– 9,227 Yelp Reviews with an average score of 2.81 out of 5

In my home state, this is what we found:

South Carolina – 60 Hospitals
– 7329 Facebook Reviews with an average of 3.92 out of 5
– 54,776 Google Reviews with an average score of 2.87 out of 5
– 9,227 Yelp Reviews with an average score of 2.83 out of 5

I wonder how many healthcare organizations are reviewing their Facebook, Google, and Yelp reviews? I wonder how many are reaching out to the individuals who are taking the time to write a review and trying to discern if the review is a credible statement? I wonder, are we ignoring the idea of health equity by not engaging with the consumer when they leave reviews in the public domain?

I have so many questions and excited about this new intersection of health equity, SDoH, and social media.

Today was a great day…I spent time interviewing Dr. Hai Yao and Dr. Jeremy Gilbert both endowed chairs for Clemson Bioengineering. Both men carrying on the legacy of a life long family friend Dr. Larry Dooley.
I have toured and spent time in the new MUSC-Clemson Bioengineering facilitywhere Clemson Engineers are doing something that is hard to find in the United States; engineers conduction research and creating thought leadership in collaboration with an academic medical center.

Both Clemson and MUSC see this legacy as part of a larger vision, tackling some large medical problems in a fashion that pushes forward the movement to make South Carolina a destination for healthcare innovation.

It was a proud moment seeing the fruits of Dr. Dooley’s vision, one he talked about when I was a kid. Dr. Dooley’s vision and the hard work of Dr. Gilbert and Dr. Yao may seem abstract to the lay person when looking at their research posters, but after visiting their labs you can see the larger economic development vision growing with each beat of the cardiac stems cells being researched at 68 President Street in Charleston, SC.

This has to be one of the most powerful stories we have captured since I started working with Safe Harbor eight years ago. Each year, we have pushed the boundaries, getting to a place where real, raw emotion translated into such palatable words. Jenita is such an inspiring woman, with an amazing ability to share emotion in a way that we could truly see into her soul.

It only took her only two times to read the script she wrote, staring into a teleprompter literally three feet away. She was nervous about “letting loose”, sharing the graphics words that truly showcased her inner struggles and path. I am so glad she found the space to let loose; and truly share her heart.

Telling stories is more than just creating something for the consumer to feel the depth of the story; it is also knowing when to step back and letting the story be told without stepping in the way.

I am thankful for Jenita’s strength. If this message upsets you or offends you; then maybe Jenita’s story truly achieved it’s goal…to make you think and see the inner soul of a survivor. We should be so honored to know that she is willing to expose and share her inner being to us!

How can we be champions for women like Jenita right here in Anderson County, South Carolina?

Ever since Facebook opened up their advertising platform, we have been running ads! We started running ads when we could target individuals in ways will never be ale to now. Before Facebook pulled back the reigns, we talked about the good ole days of Facebook targeting; and now…we are truly exposed.

The public always knew something was weird when they would use their phone to buy something on Amazon then noticed that same product in an ad on Facebook.

The public always made jokes about how they would dump Facebook because of us marketers putting too many ads in their newsfeed.

But these ads worked and the public was always suspicious. No matter if we created breast cancer awareness ads or fundraising ads, Facebook responded to the demand and released this platform to start turning a profit and now this social platform is freaking bloated.

The public is visibly pissed especially those individuals who are influencing the next generation of social applications. Now, our grandparents are adopting faster than the original adopters can get off the platform; we just can’t stop sharing our kids photo on one post and then fight over guns the on next post. It is getting tiresome and exhausting.

But…we are exposed. The public is learning through Cambridge Analytica the depth “us” healthcare marketers had access to the public’s insights, allowing us to target people in ways we only dreamed fifteen years ago.

Each major issue, Facebook has pulled back the reigns a little more. Each time, we save our insights from previous campaigns to help us navigate the new restrictions allowing us to continue our goals and objectives. I think we are honestly addicted to targeting, data, and how far we can break through aggregate data; getting closer and closer to the user.

BUT…we better get nimble. We better make sure that we have not become simple technicians who can only operate only one ad platform to reach the healthcare consumer. We better have a portfolio of options and truly rediscover what it means to be a communications practitioner; because the user base will start shrinking, especially if Zuckerberg doesn’t reign it in and/or gets toasted when called to testify before Congress.

Just recently I audited a healthcare system that had more Facebook accounts than there are hospitals in their respective state. Facebook for healthcare systems started as the catch-all for marketing communications. This led to the creation of a large user base that is as disconnected as the house brands the healthcare system supports.

It is time to reign it in…time to audit your social media presence and truly understand how Facebook is embedded in your operations. Then ask yourself, how and why are we using this as a connection to the healthcare consumer. Then re-ask yourself…why?!

Social Health Institute has audited 8 states, 1061 hospitals, 761 Facebook Pages and we have found lots of fascinating insights. Join us as we try to better understand how hospitals and healthcare systems are using Facebook. Soon we will be launching HospitalIndex.org; a portal for benchmarking and custom reporting that will allow us to better understand how healthcare systems using digital and social media. Join us!

I am worried, I am numb, and I am starting to worry more each day…there is a possibility it could happen here in Anderson. This is one of the most unpleasant, unsettling, and helpless feelings I have had in a long time.

Each day I drop off Rosebud at Calhoun Academy for the Arts, I drop her off with a feeling of empowerment, excitement, and joy knowing that she is being cared for, educated, loved, and empowered. Each day, my worry grows and that worry is slowly creeping into, intersecting those feelings of comfort; creeping into the knowing she is getting a quality education in a safe space. I want them to go away!

Where are the safe spaces?

Each day, each school shooting, each mass shooting, I get a little more scared worrying that it could happen…here. Yes…here in Anderson, SC.

As I watched another round of images from media outlets fill the daily news cycle showcasing a parents worst fears; children running from the school they trusted…invaded by a person who felt the need to hurt those inside. Each parent who sees these images feels invaded, feel perpetrated, feels a little more apprehensive of the security in their child’s school.

When I drop Rosebud off each morning, I try to document moments in my mind. I watch her in the rear view mirror as we pull into the parking lot. I see the anticipation and excitement in her face as she gets ready to start her day. I help her unbuckle the five point harness in her car seat. I watch her grab her book bag, watch those curls bounce around as she jumps out the car. I watch her open the door, climb out, and turn back to smile as we say goodbye. I tell her I love her as the car door shuts…and I hold one more second to see if she looks back over her shoulder to give me a smile. I watch her…I watch her walk away knowing for the next seven hours, I cannot protect her.

I love that little human!

I have seen some scary events in my life. I was a photojournalist who worked all over the country covering some of the most treacherous and disturbing local, regional, and national news stories. I was one of the first photojournalists to arrive on the scene of the Conyers school shooting May 20, 1999.

These are pictures from the first school shooting I ever covered as a journalist. These are the only two pictures I have showing where we were doing live shots for CBS News the day after all the kids had gone home and the dust had settled. I worked this story with a host of local, regional, and national journalists. This is Conyers High School in Conyers, Georgia where six kids were shot..

I remember hoping into a helicopter, flying to the scene, arriving with mass chaos surrounding. For me…this was the beginning. It was just a month after I sat in a newsroom watching the events unfold at Columbine, watching the unedited video content come down on the national news feeds…it was my first taste of what I would spend the better part of my adult journalistic career watching unfold in-front of my camera. Since Columbine, there have been 208 school shootings including Parkland.

I worry I have a mild case of PTSD stemming from the images I have witnessed first hand of all the shootings unfold, the dead bodies being covered in-front of my eyes, interviews with loved ones who have lost to a horrific crime; images of scars captured in my camera, in my mind, in my heart of victims lying in hospital beds. There are so many, so many, that I have lost count in my mind…it was just part of the job. I am scared…they will become my reality.

These are my prayers. The prayer for these images to go elsewhere.

These images not only stay with you, but make you pray each day for the safety of the people you love. I have witnessed the propensity of the human psyche, and I pray those images I have both captured and watched are pushed further back in my mind, further away from the reality I live each day. I hope these images stay memories and never intersect with the ones I love the most. I pray hard! I pray each time Sarah does not answer the phone. I pray each time I drop Rose off for school. I pray each time I see an ambulance race past me. I pray each time…each time I am reminded of the stories from my past.

A few months before Columbine happened, I was working on a project with our investigative team. We were exploring the idea of school safety, specifically how far a perpetrator could get inside a school without being stopped. It was 1998, hidden camera technology was still emerging in the consumer market for journalists to leverage in their coverage. We were able to wire a hidden camera on a reporter who looked like an everyday mom, recording her movements and point-of-view as she walked around.

We took her to three schools to see how far she could walk around inside the campus. Each school, she was able to make it past the front desk, without signing in, walking the school halls where children were in class, passing by children going to lunch, eventually able to make it back out of the school without being asked her purpose and if she had identification. We were disturbed from this outcome. We performed this test in three schools with the outcome the same in each campus. The imagery was disturbing. Our imaginations went in so many different directions, that imagination became a reality when we covered Conyers. Those images became a reality when we watched Columbine. Those images haunt me.

Each time I go to Calhoun Academy for the Arts to have lunch with Rosebud, each time I walk into the school, I think about that project. I think about those images as I am being buzzed into the front door. I do not know the security plan or what a lockdown looks like for Rosebud; I just know she takes part in active shooter drills. I learn about these drills after they happen, when she comes home sharing stories of the experience. She tells me about the drills like it is so normal with little or no concern. In some ways, I am comforted she does not understand the magnitude of these drills. I hope and pray her practice will only stay practice.

This Valentines week, we have been surrounded by this conversation. On the very day another mass school shooting happens in Florida, we watch the aftermath of a previous school shooting last year in Townville, SC unfold through testimony downtown in the Anderson County Courthouse.

It…is…getting…closer…too close for comfort.

It is creeping closer and closer to my family and it scares me to death. I feel powerless. I am squeamish as I watch the national conversation explode again, so many pointing fingers, so much more divide, where is the progress. What is the plan to keep my family safe, my Rosebud safe?

I fear this parents’ worst nightmare is starting to get closer to home and I am not sure what to do to stop it.

We are surrounded by noise, conversations, opinions, places where voicing and sharing our thoughts, feelings and opinions feel unsafe. Large group conversations are getting more overwhelming, more polarizing, and even volatile to a point forcing us to make tough choices….where is my safe space?

I have been thinking about safe spaces for a while, and I am surrounded by this conversation from my work, my house, my church, and even in the digital realm. The more and more I seek to find safer spaces to congregate, the more I become disillusioned and concerned by people and their willingness to disrespect safe spaces.

The other day, a friend of mine posted the picture above on Facebook that contextualized this situation for me…people are getting fed up with their safe spaces being invaded. This picture represents a place in Anderson where they have said no more. They have said, we do not want to allow a polarizing conversation into a place where we are practicing health and wellness. Who wants to work-out in a place where you hear the political bickering facilitating stress.

We are allowing politics to invade our safe spaces and it is tearing friends a part, tearing families a part, tearing church congregations a part…and we are not willing to leave at the door. The political conversation right now has invaded our lives, taken over our ethic, and encouraged us as consumers to by into division, polarizing conversation, commitment to one is right and one is wrong. We are buying into this culture, hook, line, and sinker.

Every conversation that has deep discussion turns into escalation, one that requires parties to pick sides…just pick a side and dig you heels in the sand. It is pathetic.

We have safe spaces, places where we feel like we can share and know that we will not be judged but regarded as important. We want people to listen, we need affirmation, we need to be heard, and we need not be judged because of the very thoughts we need to share.

For over ten years, I have been helping large healthcare organizations build social media communities, spaces where people can share and have conversations regardless of geography. As these social media communities grew, we started realizing we need to build smaller affinity groups allowing like minded people further self-select, and join more closed online groups to connect and share. As we built these spaces on Facebook and other social outlets, we started realizing we had to create rules for the communities. Here is an example, a set of rules for a community on Facebook:

THIS ORGANIZATION is reaching out via social media to support healthy lifestyle initiatives across the ORGANIZATION’s community. Like all online communities, this private Facebook page has some common sense guidelines for online behavior. All participants signed a release form summarized here. Remember that even though this is a private page there is always the potential for posts to become public. We encourage participant engagement and mutual support. This page is not intended for personal communication between you and your healthcare provider or for seeking urgent medical attention. Moderators will monitor this page frequently but not necessarily daily. Inappropriate posts (i.e. foul language, advertising, misinformation) will be edited or deleted.

It was just a few weeks ago, I had a social media post on a physician practice Facebook page turn into a mud slinging affair over the flu shot. With the large flu season we are experiencing, this physician practice was advocating for more people to get their flu shot. In a matter of 12 hours, more than 1000 people had seen this post with anti-vaccine groups from across the nation commenting against this post, fighting with many people in the commenting section. To this date, this post has reached over 8000 people with over 1500 comments. We had to use the rules to tell commenters not to make any threats, no harsh language, and to be respectful in this spirited debate over vaccinations. We ended up blocking numerous people from the page, hiding lots of comments, and even reporting some individuals to Facebook. We had rules, and they were broken.

We have found that we must set rules for the community. We must remind those who join these closed and/or private communities that it is important to respect this space. It is time…to set rules for our safe spaces. I do not mean just on social media, but in the communities that we find refuge. We must create covenants for those who want to commit to join these safe spaces. This includes spaces like our Sunday School classes, our poker clubs, book clubs, places to exercise, spaces where we believe will bring positive energy to our lives…we must have rules.

This is disturbing…that we have to set rules so people understand how to have compassion, empathy, and love for other human beings including their thoughts, ideas, morals, ethics, and questions they are pondering in this thing we call life.

It was not long ago our family was faced with some tough conversations, challenging conversations that brought tough exploration. As the tension rose in these conversations, we had to remind each other that the living room where we sat is a safe space, a place for exploration and deep conversation. We had to remind each other that we would not let the tough conversation become the one topic that would divide our unity as a family. We had to protect our safe space from all outside forces.

I am finding this more and more, all around me. It was not long ago that I was so upset, which is the major reason I am writing this right now; one of my safe spaces was invaded. The trust was broken and the conversation was leveraged for personal gain. I was amongst a group of people that I trusted and a few members in the room broke that trust. That conversation was leveraged to create a divisive debate that entangled with political discussion. Politics had once again found it’s way into the door and the political theater of nationalism had invade a closed spiritual discussion.

We must take a stand. We must resist the ideal that political division and the sociopathic notion that “we must always be right” does not have a place in our safe spaces…especially the space where we worship. We must embrace separation of church and state and protect the spaces where we find the fuel that provides our daily life and spiritual walks. We must protect our safe spaces.

We must set rules for these spaces and be willing to ask those who break the rules to either change their approach or leave. We need to have spaces where we find our fuel; because those safe spaces are the core to a unique path of become better community members.

We are complete…the family is complete. As I walked into the room after the Christmas Tree was up and Sarah had completed the decorations, I got a little teary eyed. I had realized, this is the first Christmas with our complete family.

Looking back over the years, it is hard to find the right words to describe our path. We will have lived in our house 10 years this coming February, and these walls have seen so much change, so many stories, heard so many conversations, experienced so many trials and challenges…and here we are…the Rettew Five.

As a forty three year old father, husband, business owner, deacon, and Andersonian…I am not only thinking about my future but also trying to find more ways to live in the present. It was not long ago, I wrote about my fears as a older father finding himself at forty-three having twins; realizing that when the twins are twenty, I will experience my sixty-third birthday. My mother is sixty-three and I am forty three, she has been able to experience so much in life.

My mother has experienced having children starting at the age of twenty, watched my sister and I grow-up, go to school, college, have children and will be able to completely retire while traveling to enjoy her role as a grandmother. I see that experience and I have to admit, I am somewhat envious of her life path. She has worked hard for where she found herself in life.

It was just the other day, I was writing a video script for a brand launch, it involves the life of a nurse. As I began writing the script, I found myself completely immersed in detailing the experiences of my mother. There were two time periods that captured my memories, that captured my typing, that captured my storyboarding.

I remember birthday parties for my sister and I. She was always working crazy shifts as a floor nurse in a hospital and she was always having to find ways to maximize her time incorporating what we term as work-life balance. I remember her coming into the house with presents wrapped, a cake from the grocery store and as I looked, the presents did not have scotch tape, they had surgical tape. My mom is a utilitarian, a person who had to find ways to maximize her time to make the most of work yet giving the finest part of her heart to her children. She wrapped those presents with love and at the time, I was super confused by the surgical tape but now I find joy in those little details.

I remember when I was in high school waking up in the middle of the night to see the lights on downstairs. I would wonder my way downstairs to find my mother asleep on the couch with a book and papers open in her lap. She was studying. As a sophomore in high school, my mom was a senior at Clemson in nursing school. She was taking 24 hours to graduate and every moment counted. She was not only studying for good grades, but it was sheer determination to finish early so she could get back into a full time job to support her family.

My mom’s heart was complete, with determined love for her children. Everything she did was for her children from the late night studying to the surgical tape on the presents. I was so very fortunate to attend graduate school at the same time my mother was working on her masters. We both studied together at Clemson. I was working on my MA and she was working on her MS.

Completeness.

I seek the completeness with my family, to live in the moments, to create memories for my family that they can look back on and remember. Memories that showcase what it truly means to be complete.

My mother is now enjoying the fruits of her labor living life as a grandmother and I am trying to live in those moments, those complete moments. I realize I may not get to experience the same opportunity as my mother given our decision to start a family later in life. But these complete moments for her, I must embrace as my own as well.

Completeness for me is more than knowing that Sarah, Rosebud, George and Henry complete the Rettew Five…it is finding the ability to live in these moments.

I have watched my mother work so hard for so long achieving the goals that seemed so unattainable, breaking the glass ceiling, yet being more than a provider but a mother to her children. This is a tough act to follow, but I find completeness in my family, my Rettew Five knowing my mother has set the stage long ago for me embrace these moments in time.

As I write these words, and as I write the scripts describing the path of a nurse…I shed tears. I think about a quote from Women’s History Month, and it is this quote that brings resolve knowing that the foundation my mother laid for me provided the very completeness in the image of five stockings hanging on our mantle.

“Let us resolve to build on the progress won by the trailblazers of the past. We must carry forward the work of the women who came before us and ensure our daughters have no limits on their dreams, no obstacles to their achievements, and no remaining ceilings to shatter.”

This quote showcases the work of the women like my mother, that she did everything in her power, while shattering those ceilings, to ensure her children had no obstacles to their achievements, including creating the opportunity for her children to create a lasting legacy to fulfill.

Healthcare Basics – We must do these six things to be proficient in digital and social media!

I have been thinking and reviewing all the work we have done with our healthcare clients over the past ten years and I have realized many parallels in our conversations. The Digital Health explosion now encompasses more than social media and digital communication; the innovations are endless from the B2C to the B2B perspective.

The more and more we work with the healthcare consumer, I realize that there are six items hospitals must embrace to be competent to compete for today’s digital consumer. Hospitals have to do a six basics things to just become proficient.

Here are six areas hospitals and healthcare systems have to do just to become current in-order to engage the consumer in their healthcare journey.

Must Have Mobile First Website and Web Presence

Physician Finder(s)

Reconcile and Engage with Online Reviews

Correct and Align Digital Directories

Embrace Social Determinants of Health

Provide Social Media/Commenting/Privacy Policies that are Consumer Facing

Here is a slide from Healthcare Internet Conference that states “65% of interactions with health care providers will come from mobile devices.”

Ok…why is it that when I go to a hospital website on my phone I am still pinching and sliding. If there are two devices every healthcare consumer has, they are a television and a mobile phone. They like to consume information from both and many times simultaneously. We have to make that user experience seamless and effortless.

Bottomline…if your website is not mobile first, you are considering your web presence as a billboard or post card and not an essential business function of your healthcare organization. This means your main website, microsite, and any other web platform that engages the consumer.

2) Physician Finder

You must make it EASY for your healthcare consumer to find your providers. You must have an efficient physician finder front and center on your website guiding the consumer to a landing page that displays:

Physician name and credentials

Physician photo

AIDET Video

Current Ratings/Reviews (Preferably HCAHPS scores)

Address and contact information

But there is one more thing some miss but is a huge necessity, you have to make sure your website is SEO driven so when the consumer uses Google to search for a physician in your network, your website appears at the top of the search. Secondarily, you must help your physicians claim their profiles on places like Doximity, HealthGrades, WebMD, and ShareCare.

3) Reconcile and Engage with Online Reviews

Yes, we must face it…we must reconcile and respond to online reviews. This includes Google, Facebook, and Yelp for starters. Consumers like to read third party reviews and if a healthcare organization does not engage or respond to reviews, the consumer beings to draw conclusions including lack of transparency and lack of willingness to have a conversation.

We have found in a recent study of over 150 hospitals in Texas that if a healthcare organization claims, engages, and responds to each review; they can increase their average rating by one point in a five point scale. This is a huge perception driver and huge opportunity to answer questions and address online issues that might flip a negative review into a strong brand ambassador, ultimately a happy patient experience. We want people to leave great reviews including those HCAHPS.

4) Correct and Align Digital Directories

Please tell me you want the healthcare consumer to be able to find your location? Yes, be able to locate that physician practice or be able to call the number listed on Google and it not take you to vascular services when they were looking for the billing department. Nothing is more frustrating than for the healthcare consumer when trying to call or locate someone and the information is incorrect.

Healthcare is already obtuse, why make it more complicated. It is necessary to make sure all search engines, social media outlets, navigation systems, online review outlets have your correct contact information. No more putting your head in the sand, you want people to find you…so clean up those digital directories.

5) Embrace Social Determinants of Health

Our hospitals have a diverse populations, many different nationalities, countries of origins, languages…we are the melting pot of our community. We serve all and we must put our best foot forward to ensure every person that walks through our doors is provided the same level of service regardless of their race, gender, and ethnicity. It starts with how we communicate digitally to our consumer.

If we notice we have a large population of individuals in our community that are German, do you think you should make sure the website not only can be translated into German, but the service communicated online meets their background.

This makes me think of a story a colleague of mind shared from their hospital. A woman had come to the ED in labor and was ready to deliver. She was from an ethnic background where her religion required the provider delivering the baby must also come from the same religious background and faith position. The hospital had a person qualified on-call and was able to come and deliver the baby. We must serve our population and we must communicate to these populations that we are staffed to provide the best possible care to everyone.

Here is the digital opportunity, we must identify and know these pockets of communities in our surrounding areas and make sure we are using all our digital communication tools to correctly educate and inform these populations we are here to serve all.

Provide Social Media/Commenting/Privacy Policies that are Consumer Facing

You must build the sandbox. You must build it so others can see how to engage with you online. When we work with healthcare organizations, the first thing we tackle is the social media policy, commenting policy and privacy policy. Before we start any initiative or campaign, these policies must be consumer facing on the website and are easily assessable.

We encourage groups to make one section on the website to house all these items in one toolkit. This is not only for the consumer but also for internal stakeholders. We spend so much time training physicians, medical staff, and employees how to manage branded social media properties but also their personal social media properties; this tool kit is home base for these discussions. This toolkit provides guidelines how to use social media, engage with the healthcare consumer, but also for the consumer to engage with the healthcare brand.

Build the sandbox, set the standard, give them a place to see how to connect. Here are a few that I think are great examples:

Guess what, I did not attend #HCIC17 in Austin, Texas. Well, my partner Reed Smith attended and said it was pretty good. So I pulled up the #HCIC17 hashtag Twitter stream and look what I found. Good stuff…I feel like I attended, saved on airfare, ticket and conference costs…and walked away with a few smart ideas and thoughts.

Here is a collection of some of my favorites where I am creating actionable items. Good stuff coming from the #HCIC17 hashtag.

I am tired of pink ribbons. Yes…the ribbon above is not a pink ribbon, it is purple. I want to trade.

Please, those who are breast cancer survivors, please do not judge me. Please hospitals that I represent, do not be think less of this opinion. I have not battled breast cancer, or any cancer for that matter. But, I have watched my wife’s mother die of breast cancer and experienced the same scare with my wife. I am done with pink ribbons…and it has nothing to do with lose of hope.

It is time to just admit it…I am over the pink ribbon campaigns.

I cannot believe as a digital media storyteller for healthcare organizations that I am about to write this phrase, I am aware and I no longer need to see pink again. I am tired of pink, I am so tired of pink that I am not sure if it has the same significance on my daughter as an innocent, fun color for a little girl.

I am tired of pink campaigns.
I am tired of seeing pink ribbons.
I am tired of being asked if I would wear a pink ribbon.
I am tired of walking into stores with pink adorned all across products.
I am tired of hospitals choosing this campaign as the only campaign to change their colors.
I am tired of Pink October.

We are aware…trust me. Our whole family!

If you look at the search volume via Google Trends since 2004, you will see that people have been searching for breast cancer in record numbers. They are searching because they are either aware or have been influenced to search to learn more. October is also domestic violence awareness month and breast cancer completely outpaces Google search volume.

“Each year, more people die of lung cancer than of colon, breast, and prostate cancers combined.”

Look at the search volume for lung cancer in red…not even close. For such a deadly disease, is this search volume an indicator of awareness…or lack there-of.

In the healthcare digital and social media world, breast cancer is a large driver of traffic and potential income into a hospital. This is why we see hospitals change their websites to pink, their social media icons to pink, their campaigns center around breast cancer. This is why you see these same healthcare systems focus so much energy and effort behind breast cancer campaigns on Facebook.

Check out the United States demographics of people on Facebook. Notice something. More women than men. Pew Research states,

“Young adults continue to report using Facebook at high rates, but older adults are joining in increasing numbers. Some 62% of online adults ages 65 and older now use Facebook, a 14-point increase from the 48% who reported doing so in 2015. In addition, women continue to use Facebook at somewhat higher rates than men: 83% of female internet users and 75% of male internet users are Facebook adopters.”

With all this awareness, there are results. Since the 1970’s the lifetime risk of breast cancer has dropped from 1 in 10 to 1 in 8, which is a huge drop. This is in-part to awareness and advancement in technology.

So why not focus some energy on lung cancer? Lung cancer mainly occurs in older people. About 2 out of 3 people diagnosed with lung cancer are 65 or older, while less than 2% are younger than 45. The average age at the time of diagnosis is about 70.

Here is the kicker, healthcare systems know that raising awareness for breast cancer to women, specifically women in their mid 30’s and 40’s, they are influencing the healthcare decisions of the whole family. Hospitals gain critical access to a whole family when they treat a woman for breast cancer. They expose these woman to wonderful care showcasing their services in the hopes they bring the rest of their family for other services including pediatrics, orthopedics, and other services for family members including their parents, grandparents, husbands and children.

So why am I so invested in sharing this information. Because once again, here we sit…Sarah has another abnormal mammogram. I am not really worried this time around, for many reasons.

Last year she had a digital mammogram that showed something abnormal. This lead to more tests including an MRI that was prescribed and not paid for by the insurance company. This stress of the false positive, along with the history of her mother dying of triple negative metastatic breast cancer influenced us to make a decision for Sarah to have a breast reduction. Combined with the neck and back pain along with headaches, she was a perfect candidate; especially given we wanted to reduce her chances of getting breast cancer. For these reasons…I am not worried as much this time, we know the drill…and so it continues. We are aware. We are tried of being aware. Quite honestly, our awareness is no longer awareness, it is routine.

Each October we are reminded that her mother wore her pink, walked the walks, had lots of hope, but died at the age of 50 fighting this horrible disease. Each October, we walk into a store and see ribbons everywhere, walk into church and see the pews filled with pink hope. Hope was lost on September 17, 2007 when Mrs. Denise passed away.

We are aware. Trust me…

I am preparing for another fight with the insurance companies to pay for the MRI to see if those abnormalities are a real concern. I prepare to be a comfort to Sarah each time she leaves the radiology department; after each scan where the desk attendant asks her to wear a ribbon to raise awareness. Guess what, she is aware.

Are we not aware? Just go to Google and type breast cancer and see what pops up. Just look around during October, pink is not meant for little girls, it is used for ribbons to remind us, our family the nasty fight we keep fighting. We are so aware groups like Komen have tried to build empires on pink. Patent filings and trademark wars over the use of the color pink between Victoria Secret and Thomas Pink hit the headlines.

I am really starting to dislike the color and the awareness wars behind this disease. Maybe it is time for this large thrust of energy to wrap itself around a topic that needs more awareness, broad scale awareness for a bigger issue…domestic violence. Here is a statistic for you, 1 in 4 women will be victims of severe violence by an intimate partner in their lifetimes. Compare that to 1 in 8 women who have a lifetime risk of breast cancer. Hmm…those numbers do not lie.

There is a huge opportunity to not only bring voice to woman who are afraid, scared to leave their abusers; but also engage men to learn about healthy manhood. Two large groups of people, sound likes a novel investment opportunity to me.

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/10/10/yep-they-cray-cray-twinslife/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/10/10/yep-they-cray-cray-twinslife/Today was a special day…I made a new friend! #prostheticshttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/SdnwiLTTW0w/
http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/10/09/today-was-a-special-dayi-made-a-new-friend-prosthetics/#respondMon, 09 Oct 2017 01:17:46 +0000http://bobbyrettew.com/?p=8578

Today was a special day…I made a new friend! When I met Chris, I knew this guy was a rambunctious boy full of life and a love for sports. But what I did not realize, is how he can change your view of how a little boy with special ability can exceed all predispositions and expectations.

I first met Chris and his family a few months ago while researching a story. We were meeting children with lower limb amputees. I was worried about so many things, especially the possibility the children would be shy around a camera and would even shy away because of their prosthetics. From the moment I walked in the door, I knew Chris was, and is, awesome. Today as we followed him playing football, running with his two young siblings at the park, and even being fitted for a new socket…his eagerness to get up and play was ever so evident.

His story is one that showcases the power resiliency, loosing the lower part of his leg at birth; the umbilical cord wrapped round his leg cutting off blood supply. To this day, he tells anyone that asks that can never remember having two feet. His matter of fact approach showcases his confidence as a young man.

This evening, I shared this picture with Rosebud. I wanted her to meet a special young man who has a special ability. I wanted her to see that no matter your ability, we are all special and we have special gifts. His gift is one of confidence and stamina. He can throw the football and run circles around me. Rosebud asked how he could run with his special leg. We pulled up YouTube and found a video from the 2012 Paralympic Games, the mens 200 meter event. We sat and watched these men run with their “Cheetah” prosthetics, they are actually called the Flex-Foot Cheetah; developed by biomedical engineer Van Phillips, who had lost a leg below the knee at age 21. She was fascinated as these men glided across the screen.

I am just fascinated with Chris as he glides across the screen in the viewfinder of our cameras. His story is special! We will be sharing his story soon as we investigate engineering’s grand challenges.

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/10/07/good-morning-daddy-i-got-this-bumbo-thing-twinslife/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/10/07/good-morning-daddy-i-got-this-bumbo-thing-twinslife/We did it…our first official outing as a family. #twinslifehttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/JfyezyxIeJQ/
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We did it…our first official outing as a family. Now…we have taken the family to church numerous times, but that is not even a block from the house. This was a complete outing including a picnic dinner at Clemson’s Botanical Gardens, then to Clemson’s Bowman Field, and finally fireworks beside Clemson’s Baseball Stadium.

It is Clemson Homecoming and it is our tradition to take the kids for a picnic at Clemson Botanical Gardens then off to Bowman Field to look at all the homecoming floats. We packed the car full of bottles, changes of clothes, two different strollers depending on how the twins would do, and lots of crazy shenanigans to make the night fun.It was a wonderful night capped off with front row seats to enjoy the fireworks display.

Henry ate his bottle while the fireworks lit up the sky for his enjoyment. He was completely mesmerized with all the flashing lights. George on the other hand…he was not a fan. I looked up and Sarah was sitting in the car, holding George, watching the fireworks while trying to keep little George calm. But…it was so worth it…including the fireworks that were in the shapes of smily faces and hearts.

There is nothing better than homecoming at Clemson. It is a tradition that my parents enjoyed taking my sister and myself when I was Rosebud’s age. We did all the same things from looking at the floats on Bowman Field to sitting in the stadium watching the fireworks. I was like George, scared of the loud fireworks. I would lay on the stadium seats and hold my ears. But…we did it…we made it. It was because we had lots of help from family and friends.

This picture above is one of three pictures capturing the whole family. It took a lot to get us up the hill in front of this float for the picture. I climbed to the top, holding myself from sliding down while my dad passed both Henry and George into my hands. Sarah was trying to hold herself from sliding while corralling Rosebud and trying to get her to smile. We look happy…and we are; because sometimes you need a little crazy, a little fun, lots of help, and night on the town, Clemson Homecoming Style! #Clemson #Homecoming #WelcomeHome #twinslife

When arrived at Denver Downs Corn Maze, I would never imagined Rosebud would want to ride the zip line. After watching ride close to 30 times, I looked at Sarah and said that just a year ago…she would have been scared. It is so awesome to see how she is growing with such confidence and sense of adventure.

Here is my letter to UnitedHealthcare. It is real, it is raw, and it is straight forward.

There are so many families who find themselves in the NICU facing the daunting expenses after an emergency birth. Many are shipped to other healthcare systems during this emergency to receive top-notch care, yet fight the red tape of coverage inside their policies. Many times, their policy contracts are hard to discern when faced with emergency care and split second decisions. We were faced with all the above and continue to advocate for UnitedHealthcare to consider the NICU providers at Greenville Health System as in-network. I continue to write, ask, beg, and hope.

Here is my letter…our advocacy! Please share! Please let others know, they are not alone in this fight for coverage.

——-

To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing on behalf of my family sharing the details surrounding our stay at Greenville Health System’s NICU during and after the birth of our twin boys George and Henry. What I am about to share is our story detailing how so many things happened not only unexpectedly, but completely out of our control. There is also another underlying context, the care provided by all the physicians, hospitals, staff, nurses, and so many countless others ensured our family had access to the best quality care in South Carolina.

My wife Sarah Weathers Rettew was 32 weeks pregnant when she visited her OB Dr. Henry Hearn of AnMed Health’s OB-GYN Associates and Greenville Health System’s Maternal Fetal Medicine on June 8, 2017 where it was confirmed she had a complete plecental previa requiring a caesarean section, scheduled for 36 weeks. She was put on bedrest and we began praying we would make it to 36 weeks, we wanted our two boys to develop as much as possible before they were born.

Dr. Henry Hearn was our preferred, in-network provider along with AnMed Health’s Women and Children’s Hospital in Anderson, SC was our preferred in-network facility where we had planned for the twins to be born. We were scheduled to have the caesarean section the week of July 4th, 2017.

Three days later on Saturday, June 10th at 3:30am, we were woken by lots of blood and a huge blood clot in our bed. We called Dr. Henry Hearn on his cell phone immediately and he instructed us to go directly to Greenville Health System since the twins (George and Henry) were 32 weeks 5 days. He told us since the twins were less that 34 weeks, we had to take Sarah to the closest hospital with a level one NICU, this was Greenville Memorial Hospital in Greenville, SC; 30 minutes away.

He explained AnMed Health could not provide the care needed if the twins were born prematurely before 34 weeks. He said Greenville Health System’s Greenville Memorial Hospital and Children’s Hospital was the best and closest provider for both Sarah’ caesarean section and our premature twins.

Sarah spent fifteen minutes on the phone begging Dr. Henry Hearn allow us to come to AnMed Health to have the twins delivered; Dr. Henry Hearn explained to Sarah on the phone that it would be irresponsible of him as a physician not to send us directly to Greenville Memorial Hospital in Greenville, SC. He was concerned Sarah was bleeding and that the boys might be born soon.

We had no choice, we had no time to spare, we had no opportunity at 3:30am to research whether Greenville Health System, Greenville Memorial Hospital, Greenville Health System’s Children’s Hospital, and the physicians contracted to provide care in the NICU were considered in-network. We were told it was in the best interest of Sarah’s health and the health of our twins to go where the best medical staff, technology, and the best care was available.

We immediately jumped in the car, passing AnMed Health Women and Children’s Hospital and drove 30 minutes to Greenville Memorial Hospital in Greenville, SC. We arrived at Greenville Memorial Hospital around 4:45 am where a team of doctors were waiting for us in their OB Triage area. By 7:10 am, Sarah was taken to surgery for a caesarean section and both George Landrum Rettew and Henry Joseph Rettew were immediately delivered around 7:20am and put directly into the Level One NICU of Greenville Health System’s Children’s Hospital. George and Henry spent the next 28 days in Greenville Health System’s Children’s Hospital because they were born premature at 32 weeks five days. George was born at 3 pounds 13 ounces and Henry was born 5 pounds 3 ounces; both put on CPAP breathing machines along with a host of other machines to help them grow and develop. We woke up to an unbelievable emergency and found ourselves in another hospital over 30 minutes form our house with a five year old at home. We spent the next 28 days piecing our lives back together with two children in the NICU and a five year old at home. We were supposed to deliver at a hospital five minutes from our house, now we were in a hospital we did not choose because the level of care was necessary.

We are requesting for insurance claims related to the birth and care of George Landrum Rettew and Henry Joseph Rettew while at Greenville Health System’s Greenville Memorial Hospital and Children’s Hospital, along with the caesarean section surgery of Sarah Weathers Rettew be covered under our current insurance policy.

This was an emergency, and unplanned birth of twin boys who were being carried by my wife who was considered high risk since she is 39 years of age. Our in-network provider sent us to another facility to be cared for by out-of-network providers because this level of expertise and care was not available at our preferred in-network hospital. I am 43 years old and the only financial provider of the family. We are now a family of five and the full cost of these services without insurance coverage would be devastating to our family. I honestly do not know how we could pay for these hospital bills. It is my hope that United Health Care would graciously consider negotiating these charges and cover these services under our current insurance policy.

His name is Joe Bridwell. He is my mom’s dad, who past away in March 2011. I called him Pop. I am the oldest grandchild on my mom’s side with my mom being the oldest living child of my grandfather’s. As I was thinking about Pop and Henry, I remembered what I said during his memorial service. I had to take the funeral home’s audio CD and have it transcribed so I could pull the exact words from that day. What I found is what I said straight from the heart and matches all the reason Henry Joseph Rettew was named partly for my Pop. I took those words and edited some to bring context to path down memory lane.

Pop was an amazing businessperson and he also was a good businessperson with his family. I think back to the years we were growing up as kids over in Regency Park. All the different pine straw forts that we used to build.

He knew that if he and Nana put together a great Thanksgiving dinner, the whole familywould come over, have Thanksgiving lunch and then he put everyone to work in the afternoon to rake up all the pine straws.

Pop, to me, was many things. Pop was a jokester. He liked a funny card. He liked it off color. And he liked to tell jokes. He also was a sportsman. He never told me if he liked Clemson or South Carolina, but he always rooted for both of them because the house was divided with many Gamecocks and many Clemson fans.

Pop was a family man. And because of that, as a grandchild I always felt like a son. I never felt like that I was a, quote unquote, “grandchild”, and I think, and I can’t speak for all the grandchildren and my cousins, but I think that each of us kind of felt like a child to him. Because, in his own special way he always wanted to mentor us. Whether if he was letting us know that we were making a mistake, or if he was listening to us and trying to build us back up; we were still sons and daughters to him regardless if we were grandchildren.

When I think of Pop I think of a few things. There’s three topics: entrepreneurship, family, and legacy.

Entrepreneurship

I’ve been in the middle of this big entrepreneurship debate with a lot of my friends and colleagues, I have been trying to figure out if whether entrepreneurship is a learned skill, or is it genetic. When I think about entrepreneurship, I think about Pop. I wonder when he was a young son to Granny (his mother my great-grandmother), did he wake up one day and say, “You know what? I’m going to be an entrepreneur”. I don’t know. Really, I don’t know what led him to be an entrepreneur. When you think of him leading a long career in real estate here in Anderson, SC, it was preceded by hisbig career as a pharmaceuticals rep. And when he retired from pharmaceutical sales and wanted to tackle the real estate world, he knew what it would take! That is the measure of an entrepreneur; that’s an innovator who is willing to see that there’s an opportunity and a market need, and then willing to go tackle it.

So Pop had a tremendous drive an as entrepreneur. And I wrote this about Pop about a few yeas ago, when I was sitting down reflecting, “Entrepreneur’s success is dependent upon the people around us and their support. Now we will have plenty of people around us that find it in their best interests for us to fail. But the ones who really love us and support us; they listen to our successes, they listen to our failures, they encourage us to just go out and swing that bat again, because we all like to go out and swing that bat. Pop knew how to swing that bat. He did. He got up to bat every time, every day…he was swinging. He was an early man. Early riser. And he got up and swung that bat every morning.”

Pop loved gadgets. I don’t know if you knew, but Pop probably had the first cell phone in Anderson, South Carolina. I remember him pulling in to the drive way in his first Mercedes. It was a tan 240D Mercedes, it only went five miles an hour, at least that is what it felt like, but it was spotless all the time. He had a phone in the center console, it was big and it had a rotary dial. We thought it was the coolest thing, I was only 10 years old riding down the road and he was dialing on a rotary dial telephone from his car. It had a big antenna on the back, and it looked like a big truck antenna. But he knew, it was a market differentiator because he would get on the his rotary dial phone, driving down the road, and organize his real estate deals.

Over the years, he always had the latest mobile phone. When a new one would come out, he had to have it. He would even have three; sometimes…he would play with it and he’d get mad at it and go get another one. And that’s how he was. He always had to have the latest gadgets. And I can identify with him because I fill my briefcase and pockets with the latest iPhones and iPads. We were always wondering what was Pop’s latest gadget, so we could play with it and figure out if we wanted to get it.

Pop’s gadgets got him in trouble. I think of three examples. One is a trip to Vegas. Few people know about the Vegas trip, but Pop and Nana, along with a a few friends took off to Vegas. When they arrived he got a phone call. There was a deal. So he answered the phone, his cell phone, got on a plane, left his wife, and his friends, to fly back to manage the deal. Yes, Pop’s gadgets got him in trouble. I don’t know what happened when Nana got a hold of him, but I’m sure If that was me I’d probably would have been sleeping in the office for a few weeks.

Pop had triple bypass surgery when I was a young boy. When Pop woke up the first thing he grabbed was his cell phone. Now I don’t know how he got his cell phone into the middle of the ICU, but he coaxed someone to give him the cell phone. And as soon as he woke up he turned that joker on, and he sent the nurses into a frenzy because all the monitors were going crazy. At that time, the cell signals were a little bit different. And they were on the same wavelength as most of the technology inside the room. So, it got him in trouble…Nana had to take it away.

Pop … also it got him in trouble with his driving. He would be driving down the road with his knee holding the steering wheel, he’d have the newspaper in one hand, and the cell phone in the other. And that, you know, led to many rear endings. So, it got him in trouble on the road.

Pop and I share that love for gadgets. I remember when I purchased my first iPad. I was one of the first people to pre-order the first iPad released, and I couldn’t wait. I was checking FedEx all the time online to see when it was going to show up. And when I got it, I opened it up, and the first thing I wanted to do was go take it to Pop and let him play with it. Pop had this affinity for technology, I think innovators and entrepreneurs have that affinity for technology. We always want to be on the cutting edge, allowing us to do what we do best.

Pop also believed in the customer. The customer was always number one, he always took care of his customers. He listened to them, he made sure that everything was taken care of for his customers. I wrote this about him a few years ago, after I’d sat down and chatted with him, “My grandfather believed in the customer. He was not a serial entrepreneur. He was a real estate man. He did not spend all of his time focusing on the properties, he spent his time getting to know his customers. He listened and responded, he put the customer first. In his time away from the customer, he spent walking through tons of properties, memorizing each one”.

Pop had a photographic memory. It was amazing. It was amazing, when I would ride with him, he could ride through a neighborhood and he could look at a property, and he could tell you exactly the makeup of each house. And he would tell you the details about that house. He would look at a house and say, “You know, that was a three bedroom, four bath, it was renovated two years ago, but before it was renovated” … And he would just list the intricacies of the house as if, in his mind, he was walking through it with a customer. And it was amazing, his ability to visualize his passion.

When I was in graduate school, I took one summer off. And the main reason I took it off is because my Pop decided that he wanted to, once again, help a customer and climb up on the side of a Ford Explorer while riding through a piece of property, on the side of it! He fell off of while they’re driving through the field. And of course he hurt his hip and broke his arm. But he had to work. He had to do it. So, it was Bobby driving Mr. Daisy. Now I don’t know if you all know but Pop always had to have the biggest BMW Mercedes out there, because he liked to pile all the people in, but for some reason he decided to try out the new BMW 7 Series and it was like having a living room in the back seat. So I drove him around for about eight weeks. Just me and my Pop, and I learned more that summer about being an entrepreneur than you can imagine.

But there are a few funny things that came out of that summer. The first is, I call it The Godfather Story. We pulled into a house out on the lake. Pop’s sitting in the back, and he looked at me and said, “Bobby, when we pull in I want you to go check out the backyard”. I said, “Well, yes sir”. So we pulled in, and as I’m walking through the backyard scanning around, trying to memorize everything to relay it back to him, I look up; and the person that was going to sell the house and sign the listing walked up, sat in the backseat with Pop. He was smoking a cigarette and Pop was sitting there just working on his contract. And I kind of looked back up, and I felt like I was kind of the watch person for the Godfather. Watching out, wondering if anybody else in going to show up; and in this long, big old BMW, there is a deal going down in the backseat.

Pop loved chicken salad, you could see his mouth watering when I even mentioned it. So Pop looked at me one day and said, “Bobby, let’s go get some chicken salad”. So I drove him up to his favorite place, Jake’s on Highway 81. So we drive up Jake’s, pull around, and we order two chicken salad sandwiches, two Cokes, and I ordereda thing of fries, he wanted to have a few. He never ordered fries.

So, we pull up, and I said, “Pop, you got some money?”
He said, “No, did you pick it up?”
“No”. “Well, I thought Nana gave you your allowance?”

“No”. “Well, how are we going to pay for this?”

So I pull up and I say, “Ma’am can you hold on just one second. We got to pull the money together”. And she stuck her head out the window and looked at this long BMW, she looked at me driving Pop, him sitting in the back. I bet she was thinking why are these two men digging around in the floors for money in this big ole, spotless 7 Series BMW for money. I paid with it through pennies and quarters that were laying in the ground. It had been a few weeks since the inside had not been vacuumed. We must have found $10 in quarters laying around in the floorboard.

My Pop loved his work. He loved his family. He was always working a deal, showing a house, meeting someone new. As kids, it was hard to understand his commitment to his work, but now I do. I’m an entrepreneur, business owner, a gatherer. My aunt Mary Jo said it best one night while Pop was in the hospital. I was worried I was going to have to go on the road when Pop was declining fast. She said that Pop would understand because each dollar I made is not like everyone else’s dollar. It pays the mortgage. And if we had enough it goes into savings when times are slow.

He raised four hardworking children. You will not find a lazy Bridwell. My last name may be Rettew, but I am also a Bridwell. We are leaders. We do not lead to get noticed. We are problem solvers. My final time sitting and listening to him, his body was old and tired, but his mind was keen and sharp. He believed in people. He believed in good business. He believed in his family. He always wanted to know what deals I’ve signed, what new person I’d met, what new places I’d seen with my eyes. He was always thinking business. It was hard for me to look at him in his casket. See, Pop was not a quitter. He did not give up on anything.

Legacy

We can say that Pop is in a better place. We can say that Pop is selling real estate again in the neighborhoods of heaven. or whatever metaphor you choose to use. It is my thought that I would rather carry the legacy of Pop, from the teachings, and the life journeys of times we had together. My Pop still is not a quitter. Even though he is no longer here, his legacy lives on. You see, entrepreneurs are always thinking three steps ahead. That’s what we call innovation.

Legacy. What legacy do you want to leave? I could write on and on about my Pop, his legacy, the way he viewed his life was so unique. I wanted so many times to extract as much information out of his brain before he left us. I wish it was a hard drive and I could plug a thumb drive in and save as much information as it could hold.

My Pop left us a legacy. He was the only son to my Granny. When he passed away, he had four great children, eght grandchildren, four of which are married, one great grandchild and two more on the way. That was his lasting legacy. After the visitation we all huddled up at Pop and Nana’s house, eating food, watching basketball. It’s almost like we were kids again. It really was. We were not dwelling on the sadness, but enjoying the fellowship. We were sharing living that legacy. We have a tremendous burden. I am not a Bridwell by name, but I’m a Bridwell by blood.

What he did not realize is one day I would name a son in his honor. Henry Joesph Rettew, and you can already tell he is a people person, and extrovert, and person that wants to be in the middle of it all. As an infant, he likes to be held and wants to be in the room with everyone else. As a twin, he likes to sleep next to his brother so he can snuggle up and feel the human touch. Pop was a people person. He was an extrovert and I think we appropriately Henry Joseph Rettew, in honor of my Pop, Joe Bridwell.

I will leave you with this, as John Maxwell, author on numerous book on leadership said, “There are two types of people in life, those who make things happen and those who wonder what happened”. Legacies aren’t just wishful thinking. They’re the result of determined doing. The legacy you leave is the life you lead. You must never know whose life you might touch. You can make a difference. Legacies aren’t just wishful thinking, they’re just determined doing. A legacy comes from the idea that everyone, regardless of rank or position, can make a difference. Legacies encompass the past, present, and future. Legacies force us to consider where we have been, where we are now, and where we are going.

A quest to leave a lasting legacy is a journey from success to significance. How do you want to be remembered? By living each day as if it matters, we offer up our own unique legacy. We make the world we inhabit a better place than we found it. We can choose to lead every day. We choose aspirations of long term significance over short term measures of success. It takes courage to lead. It takes courage to make life. Courage, like leadership, is a choice. My Pop was a leader. He led a lasting legacy of Bridwells. And these Bridwells will lead beyond living the life that Pop led every day. We are forever indebted to his legacy. It is my hope that we live on with that burden. To share that legacy with our children.

What is your alarm clock? How do you wake up in the morning? When Sarah and I were married, she brought an alarm clock that has the most un-godly sound. When it goes off, it can wake someone from the deepest of sleeps.

Sarah has always set this clock ten minutes ahead, it is an attempt not to be late…yet ten minutes ahead. I think it is a comfort zone, giving us the sense of control that we can stay on time…even though we know that we are ten minutes ahead. I think it is our false sense of security…ssshhhsss…she might get think I am being snarky! :)

For over thirteen years, this alarm has been set almost every night, waking us for work, church, family meetings, travel, or other family appointments. For the first time, these last three months…we have not set this alarm.

Honestly, I am starting to forget what it was like to wake by this alarm.

Who needs an alarm when you have two little ones, two little boys, twin boys, twin infants who demand our attention…our new little alarm clocks.

We finally moved them from the den, sleeping in their rock-and-plays into their bedroom, sleeping side-by-side in a crib. We have a video monitor set-up with two cameras allowing us to hear them, see them, monitor them in both the living room and in their bedroom.

We struggle more so than ever before, finding time to get sleep, finding time to do the finances, finding time for our own relationship. I know we are getting closer and closer, week by week, to sleep…but this experience has taught me a few things.

Learning to go to bed
Being confident in our ability to parent
Moving from reaction mode to proactively, placing consistency in our house

These items are a tough new set of lessons we did not struggle with during Rosebud’s days as a newborn and infant. By the time she was 7 weeks old, she was sleeping close to eight hours.

George has acid reflux so bad that we are forced to use a special formula that is already digested by the time it hits his stomach. This formula I believe is keeping him from sleeping more than 3.5 hours at a time. He averages between 2-4 hours of sleep between feedings. He is now 13 weeks old, 7 weeks gestational, with Henry able to stretch close to 5.5 hours. When George wakes-up, he is screaming and hungry…

HANGRY!

If we miss giving George his Zantac three times a day, we find ourselves fighting through getting him to drink a bottle. He screams all the way through it, giving up in exhaustion not allowing him to fill his tummy.

This is an issue we are fighting whether to listen to our pediatrician or use our gut…slowly move to a formula that would allow him to sleep longer.

SLEEP…it is a good thing. Sleep allows us to move from the frantic approach of parenting to a proactive sense of pulling the family back to a consistent approach.

These little alarm clocks, George and Henry, are more than alarm clock…they are also little people who are impacted by their parents emotions and the surroundings of our house.

Rosebud could sleep through a thousand people in the house, the most dramatic thunder storm, and screaming football fans who cheer late at night for their Clemson Tigers. Rosebud’s first year of life, we would have tons of people over to watch Clemson play at 8pm, screaming an hollering at the television as each play unfolds. She…never budged in her bed. She slept like a CHAMP.

George and Henry are different, especially Henry. Henry likes to be held with his mood and disposition reflective of the person holding him. If you are frantic, unsettled, and even panicky…Henry is the same. He can feel your heart beat race and feel the unsettled anxiousness of a person, thus becoming fussy himself.

As I was holding Henry during a Clemson game, he felt my heart race. I told myself during this football season, I was going to enjoy the outcome…not allowing myself to get so worried about the outcome. I used to work for Clemson Football as a undergraduate student helper and graduate assistant…I have a different view of the gridiron.

It was just last season that Clemson won the National Championship, a pinnacle not reached for 35 years for this small, southern school. After this season, we as fans thought we would experience a period of rebuilding…we got our Natty experience.

As I sat there…I watched each play, rocking Henry. My heart began to flutter faster and faster throughout the first half of play. As each play happened, my heart raced more, Henry became more anxious, and by halftime…he was in full fledge meltdown. It had nothing to do how I was feeding him, holding him, calming him…I was not calm. I had to hand him off to Sarah to calm him for bed.

These little beings sense our unsettledness, they are our little alarm clocks. They not only cry to wake us up in the middle of the night…letting us know they are hungry. They let us know we must find a calmness if we want them to be calm.

We want to expose our children to all facets of our lives, family coming over to eat and play. We want them to be present when we try to keep doing the things we have always taken part in…we want our old ways to be our new ways. We must find a new normal, adjust to the dispositions of our children.

This is hard. It is hard to go to bed during a Clemson football game. But maybe we should. Maybe we should keep that schedule of putting them down at 8:30pm each night, then go to bed capturing our own pocket of 3 hour sleep. We must decide to listen to our little alarm clocks, telling us to be present in our children’s lives, and to get sleep when possible.

I could have gone to bed, Clemson laid a massive beat down on Louisville epic enough to make ESPN make large claims and predictions about the rest of the 2017 season. Our little alarm clocks, our little twins…they are teaching us so much more than just parenting…but living the new life as parents of three children.

What makes you jump out of bed, super fast? I can list a few things, well lots of things. But what really gets your attention, more than just hitting the snooze button. What makes you feel like there is a complete state of emergency, making you jump up so fast the sheets are still attached?

I was once a storm chaser. Yep, not really by profession but by proxy. I was a photojournalist who worked for televisions stations across the country. During the time period I worked in television, there was a huge commitment to covering weather. We would chase a small, drizzle rain storm in the hopes to make it seem like a hurricane was hitting.

Yes, when we would walk into work each day, we were asked who captured the best weather video. This had nothing to do with beautiful skies, pretty sun sets, happy weather outside…they (those pesky producers – who by-the-way were getting fussed at to create monster ratings), our beloved producers, would demand death and destruction outside. That drizzle better look like a monsoon had hit and the storm drains were overloaded with water.

WEATHER VIDEO…it is still a focus on televisions…I giggle each time I turn on the Weather Channel.

I have chased many hurricanes along the eastern coast, along the gulf coast, and even the pacific coast in a few cases. I have stood outside with my camera during 100 mph winds, crap flying all around, tornados coming through, waist deep in water, and the list keeps on going.

I remember the time in 2004 while chasing what was left of Hurricane Ivan after came up from the gulf coast into the Carolinas. I was outside of a small town called Hickory, NC when Ivan unleashed a bunch of tornados. While driving up HWY 321 in a large microwave truck, a tornado jump over me.

YES…I looked out the passenger side window, noticed the trees parting, saw the funnel, felt the truck sway back and forth while driving 55 mph (probably faster) and then saw the trees part as I look out the driver’s side window. Yes…I felt my life pass before me and wondered if I was driving into purgatory waiting for the pearly gates.

WHY…WHY…WHY…because it was fun.

My last time chasing a storm was Hurricane Katrina in 2005. I worked for WCNC-TV in Charlotte who was owned and operated by a company called Belo Corporation. Belo owned numerous televisions stations across the country along with newspapers including The Dallas Morning News.

One of the stations Belo owned was WWL-TV in New Orleans, LA. Katrina was on a path to make a direct hit on New Orleans, so we were sent from Charlotte to Houston. We flew over the storm as it was making landfall, landed in Houston, picked up rental cars, and headed to Baton Rouge. Belo had moved everyone from WWL-TV to the journalism school of LSU to broadcast 24 hours a day during the storm. WWL-TV was the only station to stay on the air through out the storm because it invested millions of dollars to have it’s transmitter raised over 20 feet to withstand the storm surge.

We were sent to help WWL-TV not only stay on air, but to make sure the people of Louisiana still received up-to-date information about the storm and surrounding area conditions. We would travel as far as a tank of gas to any town outside of New Orleans to capture imagery of the storm, interview local officials, then bring the video tape back to air RAW (yes RAW) on the air. We would literally pull into the j-school at LSU, walk the tape directly into the newsroom, and they would pop it into the video player and play it raw for everyone to watch and listen. The raw emotion was unbelievable, the devastation of both physical assets and also of people’s souls. The National Guard, FEMA, and state officials would stand waiting to watch the most recent tape walk into the j-school and play live for them to take notes and put a plan together.

Chasing storms was a part of my life, a life that I thought I left behind. But it still surrounds me each day. There is one thing that will make me jump out of bed, it is the sound of a thunderstorm. I cannot sleep during storms as they pass through Anderson, SC. I walk the halls making sure the house is ok, making sure the family is ok, anticipating the worst thing that can happen.

Another thing that makes me jump out of bed…the sounds of two little boys crying. Yes, that video monitor is very sensitive and can pick-up anything in their room. Each night during this time period is like going to bed knowing a storm is passing through. This infant stage has taken me back to my journalism days of storm chasing, light sleeping anticipating them to cry for the next bottle.

As we get closer and closer to the gestational period we can start sleep training is like getting closer to the period when the storm is passing. Little Henry can sleep longer and his little storm in the middle of the night is like a Category 2 or 3. But, George…oh little George…his middle of the night demands for a bottle are like a Category 5 hitting full force.

There is no middle ground…it is sleeping soundly then…OH THEN…BOOM…175mph winds blasting the walls of our room at 3:30am. It will make you jump out the bed so fast, your feet get tangled in the sheets racing to the twins bedroom hoping little George does not wake Henry. You would think I was running through the house full sprint with my camera trying to get the best shot. I am actually racing through the house, making a bottle, waiting for the diaper change from Sarah, grabbing a burp cloth, and off to the recliner to pop his little mouth with a not so tasty, nasty smelling, stomach filling, Allimentum formula bottle. No offense Similac, I hate this stuff…it smells like potatoes. Yes, my Nana has named George “tater” because of the smell. I truly believe that since this formula is pre-digested, George cannot sleep longer than 3.5 hours. His tummy is going empty faster.

What makes you jump out of bed? How fast can you jump out of bed? Can jump out of bed, race to make a bottle, feed a little one, and still be in a sleep stupor enough to fall back to sleep after the task is complete. Not me, I have not mastered that tall feet. Sarah can do it…she can sleep on demand. I still stay awake, trying to calm myself down as I anticipate the next storm.

This weekend, I was poking around on Twitter and kept noticing this promoted tweet popping up on my newsfeed. I really did not pay attention until about the third or fourth time I opened Twitter, it was at the top. I decided, OK…I will pay attention and read the tweet.

This is the first time I have seen an healthcare insurance provider not only use social media, but use Twitter to deploy a promoted tweet over an contract issue. From the first look at this issue, it appears that BCBSNC is trying to inform their insurance holders about this contractual change, potentially disrupting their access to care. But, using Twitter as a means to access their client base (those they insure) over a social media network via a promoted Tweet is a bit different.

Here is what we do not know. Since I am not an client of BCBSNC, I do not know if letters have been sent to the employers and individuals via mail. I do not know if BCBSNC has made phone calls to those who use this insurance letting them know of this change. I do not know if BCBSNC has used local media to inform those in Asheville, NC about this change.

So I hit Google and found this article on WLOS-TV about this issue:

It looks like this is a public fight over patients covered by ACA’s insurance. Well, it also looks like MIssion Health has launched a few tweets of their own:

And it looks like the Twitter war is on between Mission Health and BCBS of NC, letting this complex issue play out in the aisles of public opinion. Mission Health has pinned this Tweet to the top of their newsfeed:

Have you ever wondered…what does it mean to be a member of a church. This is a common assumption, question, and phrase here in the southern part of the United States. This is usually the first question when you meet someone here in Anderson, SC; it is a part of the introduction pleasantries.

Hi
How are you?
My name is …
Nice to meet you …
What church do you go to?
Ok…we are members of this church.

I have never really liked the idea of membership, this notion of belonging based on a commitment that is partly tied to evangelism. I realize this word … “membership”… may not necessarily be associated just with the church you attend, but it feels more like a financial word…one of fiscal commitment to the building.

This speaks to me…it allows me to contextualize this idea of membership and my issue(s) with this word. This brings me to a story.

It is early Sunday morning and the boys did not sleep much with completely irregular feedings that kept Sarah and I up most of the night. All I remember is sitting in the recliner feeding George at 3:30am, falling asleep while he was drinking feverishly. I finally got him down, go to bed, and wake-up to Sarah feeding Henry at 7am.

As I walk into the den, there were carcasses of used bottles spread through out the room. As I gathered them, put them in the sink to be washed, I was immediately reminded in my half awake stupor…today is the 10 year anniversary of Sarah’s mom passing away.

It was this day, ten years ago today…Mrs. Denise passed away from triple-negative metastatic breast cancer, a highly aggressive and brutal cancer. If she was here…on this earth…she would be here, helping us. She would not let these carcasses amass in this sink.

As I stood in the kitchen, I realized Rosebud had spent the night with a friend and would be heading to church in just a few minutes. I needed to figure out our morning, I knew Sarah would not want to go to church. She had little sleep on a day marked by her mother’s passing…church morning pleasantries would not be top priority. So…what is church? What is membership? What does it mean to have God around you, as we re-consider this image above.

As I pulled out my phone and sent Ellen Sechrest a text, our minister at Boulevard Baptist Church; I came to realize this word…this word membership does not match what happened next.

Here is my text exchange (I am writing in blue and Ellen is writing in gray):

This is not membership, this is church. Ellen brought church from the physical building at Boulevard Baptist Church to our house.

As I reflected for a few minutes, I think back to my time growing up in church. Here is a question, have you been inside a church where the attendance was posted at the front of the sanctuary. That reminder of “commitment” and “membership”, one that many respond so well. This Generation X father (thats me born in 1974) never understood that approach, one of physical metrics as a reminder of a faith commitment.

It reminds me of my time as a journalist covering Billy Graham, this was a three year project. I spent most of my journalistic career in Charlotte, NC creating a two hour obituary of Billy Graham as preparation for his death. Sounds morbid, but many appreciate these stories when a notable figure passes away, immediately played on television for those to remember and reflect. That was my job.

In my travels during this project, he would always end one of his revivals called a “crusade” with “the call.” It was his final statement to end his preaching asking people to commit themselves to God, to walk down to the front, received a Bible, speak to someone, and show their commitment to this journey.

It is a moving experience to watch this unfold, especially given he said the same thing during “the call” since his first tent revival in Los Angeles in 1936. We actually pulled together these statements and edited them together showing the same words from 1936 in LA until 2005 in NY City.

But, this evangelism, even thought very moving, always felt a bit awkward to me…this physical representation of commitment. Membership is what comes to mind.

Church has never been a place where I like to outwardly showcase my faith commitment, it is a personal experience for me. It is very personal, so personal it is hard to write about these thoughts.

Church
Church Family
Family

These are words that feel better. A family of people with similar interests, similar paths, and a common commitment to a walk. A family that realizes attending church on Sunday morning for attendance purposes is not as important as getting sleep. Our minister Ellen understands what it means to be the church to families like Sarah and I, the church is bigger than one morning of having our rear ends in a pew. She knows the church is called to a bigger commitment, to be a family member to two tired parents on a Sunday where church is happening.

This morning…I like the idea of God all around us. And on this day, I think Mrs. Denise is here…given us the strength to ask for help. This is the church I see that is bigger than membership, bigger than my rear end sitting in a pew…missional commitment to family. This is the “church” I want Rosebud, George, and Henry to grow up, surrounded by a family, a church family, a missional family.

This morning, church is laying our head on a pillow getting the much needed sleep to prepare for the week. Church is knowing we can sleep, because Rose, George, and Henry spent the morning with their church family.

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/09/17/churchare-you-a-member-what-a-passe-word-rettew5-twinslife/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/09/17/churchare-you-a-member-what-a-passe-word-rettew5-twinslife/I walked into the living room this morning after a shower and found Rosebud taking care of George! Love her attention to the boys! #twinslifehttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/3o2K5n7JTEs/
http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/09/16/i-walked-into-the-living-room-this-morning-after-a-shower-and-found-rosebud-taking-care-of-george-love-her-attention-to-the-boys-twinslife/#respondSun, 17 Sep 2017 00:53:11 +0000http://bobbyrettew.com/?p=8313

It is another late night…dream feed time! This is the time of the night when we begin to hope the twins act more like 13 weeks than 6 and half weeks gestation. Sarah does so well with Henry, calming him…getting him in a deep sleep! Now it is our turn for some shut eye hoping that 3:30am feed stretches closer to 4:30am and maybe 5am. #twinslife #nicu #rettew5 #camerapapa

Just an evening walk with the boys! I am so fortunate to live in such close proximity to my office, downtown Anderson, and our church where a short walk takes you right to our community gathering places! Love the life of small town America! #camerapapa #bbc #twinslife

]]>http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/09/15/bath-time-with-henry-twinslife-it-gets-easier-allegedly/feed/0http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/09/15/bath-time-with-henry-twinslife-it-gets-easier-allegedly/It is nice to have a little helper like Rosebud to make an occasional bottle! #twinslifehttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/bobbyrettew/~3/ikaldX0hwH0/
http://bobbyrettew.com/2017/09/14/it-is-nice-to-have-a-little-helper-like-rosebud-to-make-an-occasional-bottle-twinslife/#respondFri, 15 Sep 2017 04:47:41 +0000http://bobbyrettew.com/?p=8331