mule29 wrote:Can anyone offer any help on the average chest to back measurements on a mule deer

Thanks

15" give or take an inch.

I assume this is why your asking and hope this read will help.

Minute of Angle: The Measure of Accuracy in your RifleMinute of Angle (MOA) is the term used as the standard for measuring the accuracy of a hunting rifle. You can also use minute of angle as a means of measuring the size of an animal’s target zone. In the simplest terms, there are 360 degrees in a circle, each degree has 60 minutes. The calculated distance extended to a target at 100 yards is 1.047 inches or “one-minute.” This number is just a crosshair over “one inch” and to make calculating easier, most all hunters and shooters use “one inch,” this is called “shooter’s minute of angle.” In terms of accuracy, if a hunter and his/her rifle can shoot three or five rounds and have them group inside one inch at 100 yards, then you have a minute of angle group, or a minute of angle rifle.

The rifle scopes and the scope clicks have a MOA value also. Most hunters use 1/8 inch and the 1/4 inch MOA click value. Using the 1/4 inch scope, this means that each click equals 1/4 inch of movement at 100 yards. So in order to make the bullet impact move one inch or one MOA at 100 yards, you must turn the elevation or the windage knob four clicks. The click value moves up by a 1/4 inch for each 100-yard increase in distance, so 200 yards will be ½ inch movement per click, 300 yards will be 3/4 in. per click, 400 yards = 1 in., 500 yards = 1 1/4 in., 600 yards = 1 ½ in., 700 yards = 1 3/4 in., 800 yards = 2 in., 900 yards = 2 1/4 in. and 1000 yards = 2 ½ inches of movement per click of elevation or windage knob on your rifle scope.

Speaking of accuracy at distance, this angle stays consistent all the way out to how ever far you want to shoot. One inch at 100 yards, two inches at 200 yards, three inches at 300 yards, four inches at 400 yards and so on. So if a hunter can shoot an eight inch-group at 800 yards, or a ten-inch group at 1000 yards, that is minute of angle grouping. And you are an accurate shot. It is possible to be accurate with a 2-inch group at 100 yards, on deer sized game, but your accuracy will only go so far. At 200 yards your group will open up to 4 inches, this is good; at 300 yards your group opens up 7 to 8 inches, a hit will still be made, but is getting marginal for correct shot placement. At 400 yards your group opens up to 12 to 16 inches and getting marginal for a hit. At 500 yards and beyond, your groups only open up more and more a miss is highly likely, depending on wind, conditions and setup.

It is possible to shoot better than minute of angle. “Sub” minute of angle. If your rifle shoots ½ inch groups at 100 yards, you could say half minute of angle or sub-MOA in describing your groups or your rifle. 2.99 inches or better at 300yards, 6.99 inches or better at 700 yards, or a 10-inch group at 1100 yards can all be described as sub-minute of angle.

While hunting, out in the field, you can also describe how you will “hold” your aim, or cross-hairs of the scope on a game animal. You can know how big the game animal you target is, beforehand. A Mule Deer has a body height of approximately 15 inches from top of the back to brisket, give or take an inch. So at 400 yards, one MOA is four inches. You could say that a Mule Deer standing at 400 yards is 4 MOA tall or 16 inches.

Say, for example, you know the trajectory of your rifle-scope-and bullet combination,(AND ITS A "MUST" THAT YOU KNOW!!) and you have a 300 Yard "Zero", and know that at 400 yards that your bullet drops 8 inches, (or 2 MOA) and that Mule Deer standing there has a "vital zone" of 15 inches by 15 inches square; you could aim and place the cross-hairs of your scope right at the top of the deer's back, squeeze off a shot, and expect a hit, because you have "confirmed" many times over at the shooting range, and on steel targets, that your bullet drops 8 inches/2 MOA from 300 to 400 yards.

To be Proficient at Extended Distances, You Must Know, by Confirming Exactly what Your Bullet is Doing from 400 to 500, 500 to 600, 600 to 700 yards, etc., All the Way Out to however Far you want to Shoot!!

Listed in the table below, are kill-zone measurements (top of back-to-chest, front-chest to back-of-ribs) of various game animals. These are approximate field measurements (in inches), as every animal is different. Your shots and point-of-aim should be centered in the middle of this imaginary square, on the shoulder of game animals.

Coues Deer, Blackbuck, Pronghorn, Javelina Boar, Coyote, 12-14 in.

Axis Deer, Whitetail Deer, Wolf 14-16 in.

Mountain Lion, Dall Sheep, Mule Deer 13-17 in.

Big Horn Sheep, Stone Sheep, Mtn. Goat, Caribou 18-20 in.

Rocky Mountain, Roosevelt Elk, Black Bear, 20-24 in.

Brown, Grizzly and Polar Bear 30-38 in.

Moose, Eland, Cape Buffalo 30-36 in.

Bison Buffalo 40 in.

Tule Elk . 18-22 in.

By understanding and communicating in minute of angle, you will know how your rifle will perform and how big your target area is on a game animal, at any given distance. The practice and use of this information, will make your shots more precise at the shooting range, and in the field.

Something that I think alot of hunters might not realize is that an average mule deer will only stand 36" from ground to the top of the back. Some of the larger bucks may be 40" off the ground at the shoulder. It's no wonder they can disappear so easily in the under growth and shrubs.

"Some day I'll scout out a monster, spot him while hunting, make the stalk of a lifetime, and have dreams come true. 'Til then I'll be happy with the buck in my cross-hairs."

notenuf,Man you're speakin my language. I have spent the last ten years of my life submerged in this stuff. The info that you posted was great and I just wanted to put some emphasis on one point as one with a little experience shooting long range at game. Practice, Practice, Practice!! Charts are great, computer programs are phenominal, load and bullet data are nice to have, but none of these take the place of rounds down range. When I was setting up a couple long guns and shooting a lot of long range, I shot year round and barrells lasted about two years before they would no longer hold groups tight enough to be reliable at range. That standard was 1 MOA. Groups that thrilled most folks told me time for a new tube. Anyone who is considering setting up for long shots at game(I consider any shot that has to be compensated for long) my advise is do it, but only if you're willing to do it right. That means alot of time and money committed. Then be honest and only take shots that you have made hundreds of times at the range. We owe this to our fellow hunters as well as the animals that we hunt. I once shot a deer at the range of 600 yds and made a clean kill. A friend of mine told me that he considered that unethical. I asked him what range he thought was ethical and he said 250yds. I challenged him to a group shoot where he shot his rifle at 250 and I shot mine at six. He was suprised when my target had a nice 4 inch group on center and his showed a 5 inch group 2 inches low and left. To me, being ethical is simply being prepared.-----shooter

Would you use those ranges to determine point blank range or would you adjust them to something smaller?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I'm not an expert long range shooter. There are several on the madness that have experience. I just found an article on the web that I thought would answer the proposed topic question.

"Some day I'll scout out a monster, spot him while hunting, make the stalk of a lifetime, and have dreams come true. 'Til then I'll be happy with the buck in my cross-hairs."

I'm not a long range expert either, but have played with some ballistics software from time to time. As I understand it, the term maximum point blank range means the maximum distance you shoot and hold right on the animal. To do this you have to set parameters for bullet rise and drop. So if you set the parameters at 6 inches, your maximum point blank range would allow your bullet to rise 3" above the plane of your barrell and 3" below the plain of your barrel. Your killzone would then be 6" top to bottom. With this set up my 300 WSM would theoretically hit within that 6" range out to about 300 yards give or take.

Your understanding is exacly right. Maximum point blank range is the furthest range that you can hit a within a selected target size without holding over. Many folks cheat this by adding a little to their 100 yd sight in. In my experience, bullet drop beyond 300 yds is so severe that I feel that little is gained by sighting in higher than 1-1.5 inches at 100. I have had the best luck setting my rifles up for MPBR of 250 yds which covers most of the shooting I do and puts me dead on for close running shots. I figure that when I take a longer shot, I will have time to make adjustments for things like hold-over, wind, parralex adjustment, etc. If I don't have time for all of these things, I don't shoot.-----shooter