2x crit and 2x mastery beats int, so gemming is still toward secondary stats. Crit is still our best stat for this tier.

This BiS list is evaluated with 2/2 upgrades in mind.

When comparing items, please use Engineering/Tailoring for comparative purposes. Also set your race to Worgen and talents to Inc/DoC.

Off-piece comparison has been sort-of done, and I found having the Hat as the off-piece worked out best in terms of reducing spirit and maximal DPS.

Again, if anyone would like to contribute to this list, please post constructively and back up your post with maths! Idly arguing a point without proving yourself wont get you anywhere. Remember to use WrathCalcs and upgrade your gear.

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Anyway, feel free to comment on this as well. I'm always up for testing out anything new you guys come up with!

Also, I must have a few transcription errors somewhere here - feel free to point them out, so others don't get confused.

Great work as per usual, I was curious about your formula for the equilibrium point which occurs around crit = mastery + 7.5k. I'm guessing that this only applies once we have obtained the tier 16-4p which would lower the value of crit somewhat.

Great work as per usual, I was curious about your formula for the equilibrium point which occurs around crit = mastery + 7.5k. I'm guessing that this only applies once we have obtained the tier 16-4p which would lower the value of crit somewhat.

Yeah 4-piece was included in this version of WrathCalcs. I'm assuming the equilibrium point occurs because as one stat gets higher, the other stats comparatively increase (we can see this at any gear level). The crit = mastery + 7.5k is just something I tried to deduce from adding and subtracting crit/mastery manually. The equilibrium is almost certainly not linear, but it should be a good enough approximation for the limited amount of stat variance this tier.

Of course, it could just be an error in WrathCalcs since it was only just updated today, so I wont be fussed if it disappears with a few revisions. Just going with what I've seen so far.

In all seriousness, I do look forward to having to think about mastery, and I hope trinkets are interesting in the end. It won't be fun if everyone and their kids want the amp trinket. Oh and of course, I look forward to when the first sets of cloaks drop.

This list will change really drastically due to the fact no trinkets are included, I'd assume the crit damage and garrosh trinket are best unless the multstrike ones get buffed thus making most items possibly change more to crit mastery items instead of haste items.

This list will change really drastically due to the fact no trinkets are included, I'd assume the crit damage and garrosh trinket are best unless the multstrike ones get buffed thus making most items possibly change more to crit mastery items instead of haste items.

Awesome work as usual slippy.

The Amplification trinket will really throw a spanner in the works... not looking forward to comparing it with the others.

Once trinkets are in the list should be a bit more permanent, but this is at least a start. If anyone sees better optimisation or a transcription error, let me know like usual!

Regarding set bonuses, 2t16 looks to be a bit of a monster at the moment. With Slippy's profile, it's showing as 9.5k DPS, compared to 8.5k for the T15 4 piece. 4t16 looks less exciting at 4.7k, though I'd imagine real world it'll be a bit more useful when multidotting.

Regarding set bonuses, 2t16 looks to be a bit of a monster at the moment. With Slippy's profile, it's showing as 9.5k DPS, compared to 8.5k for the T15 4 piece. 4t16 looks less exciting at 4.7k, though I'd imagine real world it'll be a bit more useful when multidotting.

im getting better results with X, in wrathcalcs and ofc without the trinkets.
295158,77dps 10524 haste 17756 crit 4452 mastery 5275 hit red: int + crit yellow: crit blue: spirit + crit.
Normaly i would go for 9534 haste and 4723hit (the caps with amp trinket), but had to go for more without the trinket ofc.

First off all, I don't really get where and what you reforge. Could you please tell me? Secondly and more importantly: your list looks to me like it isn't with 2/2 Upgrades and you didn't use Tailoring as profession I assume, because your cloak has too much INT on it.

Regarding set bonuses, 2t16 looks to be a bit of a monster at the moment. With Slippy's profile, it's showing as 9.5k DPS, compared to 8.5k for the T15 4 piece. 4t16 looks less exciting at 4.7k, though I'd imagine real world it'll be a bit more useful when multidotting.

First off all, I don't really get where and what you reforge. Could you please tell me? Secondly and more importantly: your list looks to me like it isn't with 2/2 Upgrades and you didn't use Tailoring as profession I assume, because your cloak has too much INT on it.

The link is only a list of items i made when the items where final, to see the overall stats. I used the same items in wrathcalcs with 2/2 upgrade and reforged to hit and haste cap and i used tailoring profession

First of all, this is a preliminary list guys. That's because, correct me if I'm wrong, there's potentially one more PTR build to be released prior to 5.4. Also it will really suck if Breath keeps it's current proc chance with half the duration... makes 0 sense. Another problem is that I can't get any of the stacking int trinkets to 10 reliably before the proc expires.

Anyway, trinkets not final b/c they are constantly changing, but it's pretty safe to say Purified Bindings of Immersius will be one of them and likely multistrike to be the other, but nothing can be 100% determined atm so please understand why there's placeholders and that the list isn't final.

Originally Posted by Bearowlkin

First off all, I don't really get where and what you reforge. Could you please tell me? Secondly and more importantly: your list looks to me like it isn't with 2/2 Upgrades and you didn't use Tailoring as profession I assume, because your cloak has too much INT on it.

It's clearly stated that the results were with 2/2 upgrades and tailoring + engineering as professions. It's not possible to link it like that.

im getting better results with http://i.imgur.com/04yLW6d.jpg , in wrathcalcs and ofc without the trinkets.
295158,77dps 10524 haste 17756 crit 4452 mastery 5275 hit red: int + crit yellow: crit blue: spirit + crit.
Normaly i would go for 9534 haste and 4723hit (the caps with amp trinket), but had to go for more without the trinket ofc.

Odd! For some reason I can't seem to recreate your results. I've changed the gear to your list and reforged/gemmed appropriately, but I'm sitting at 27280 int and only 290k DPS. Would you be able to send me your WrathCalcs in a PM? That way I can compare the two sheets side-by-side.

Edit: I also manually changed my stats to yours, then proceeded to hit the haste/hit caps, but that only showed 274178 DPS. The int disparity between your total stats and my sheet is dragging it down somewhat, but for some reason you also have less secondaries than my set. Whenever you get a chance, upload your WrathCalcs to Google Drive and send it to me if ya can.

Originally Posted by Cybb

I... I... I'm done...

Is there a problem with using FoN/HotW for comparative purposes? Not sure why you're dissenting haha.

Edit: typically I'll choose the talents most represented for a tier - T14 was Incarnation, T15 was Incarnation for the first half then FoN, but I don't think FoN was used as much as expected when 5.3 dropped. I just simply haven't changed FoN out yet, if it is indeed to be replaced by Incarnation again (or even SotF). Same thing with HotW, though I do believe DoC is still a DPS loss to use appropriately, and NV is still a worse DPS choice unless your fight is something like a minute long (ie. doesn't matter at that point).

Also, since there's been no hard-set theorycrafting numbers on all the talents this coming tier, there's no bounds for me to change anything until said numbers are produced. I can't predict Talent X will beat Talent Y if I have no examples.

Originally Posted by fappasaurus

First of all, this is a preliminary list guys. That's because, correct me if I'm wrong, there's potentially one more PTR build to be released prior to 5.4. Also it will really suck if Breath keeps it's current proc chance with half the duration... makes 0 sense. Another problem is that I can't get any of the stacking int trinkets to 10 reliably before the proc expires.

Anyway, trinkets not final b/c they are constantly changing, but it's pretty safe to say Purified Bindings of Immersius will be one of them and likely multistrike to be the other, but nothing can be 100% determined atm so please understand why there's placeholders and that the list isn't final.

It's clearly stated that the results were with 2/2 upgrades and tailoring + engineering as professions. It's not possible to link it like that.

And this is pretty much why the list is very temperamental right now. It'll be more stable with the next PTR version, but even more so when the patch is released. This is just a very early look at the gear, I very much doubt it'll stay this way.

EDIT: nvm noticed the lack of socket. derp. But surely an OH with a better stat balance would be better? (more overall secondary stats)

Alright so I tried it again and got the same results. I made a stat comparison by hand to show why:

Stat

Hellscream's

Cricket Cage

Total

Int

1409

1364

+45

Crit

940

0

+940

Haste

819

842

-23

Spirit

0

1160

-1160

Total Secondaries

1759

2002

-243

So the two rows to look at are the Int and Total Secondaries rows. You can see Hellscream's has more int, but is actually down 243 secondaries overall. Even if 1 Int = 2x Secondary (which it doesn't), it would still be below the Cricket Cage.