Sarcastic wrote:Is that really true, on both the kids part and the sexuality? I don't think I would want to eradicate my own life for 'kids'. I'll love my kids and spoil the heck out of them, but I also couldn't give up my own life in the process. It pisses me off enough when a woman becomes so 'dedicated' to her newborn, she cuts off her beautiful long hair since it's easier to shower in 5 min. so she could jump back in with the baby. Some women become slobs when they have a child, too, completely removing any sexuality and sensuality they had before marriage and the whole thing becomes like a business arrangement.

I respect and appreciate your views on this subject. That being said, since these are your views, please never have a child or the responsibility of raising one. Why? Because doing so REQUIRES that you give your life up. And you know what? It doesn't matter nor do I care that I've had to do it because I love my son more than anything that has ever existed.

Yeah, just to be an echo, I'm as a big a fan of myself as anyone can be of oneself. I would trample over pretty much anyone to stay alive. I don't think I'd include my daughter in that group, though. Also, I'd dispute the notion that being a parent ends when your kids aren't "kids." Also also, one can still make ones own decision as a man/woman and an individual while being motivated by another/others in making that decision.

Sarcastic wrote:Is that really true, on both the kids part and the sexuality? I don't think I would want to eradicate my own life for 'kids'. I'll love my kids and spoil the heck out of them, but I also couldn't give up my own life in the process. It pisses me off enough when a woman becomes so 'dedicated' to her newborn, she cuts off her beautiful long hair since it's easier to shower in 5 min. so she could jump back in with the baby. Some women become slobs when they have a child, too, completely removing any sexuality and sensuality they had before marriage and the whole thing becomes like a business arrangement.

I respect and appreciate your views on this subject. That being said, since these are your views, please never have a child or the responsibility of raising one. Why? Because doing so REQUIRES that you give your life up. And you know what? It doesn't matter nor do I care that I've had to do it because I love my son more than anything that has ever existed.

And did you cut your hair, too?

I'm a standard buzz cut man myself

The wife didn't cut her hair. We do this thing called "working together" so we each get our own alone time pretty much every day. I am also lucky because my wife is 40lbs BELOW her pre-pregnancy weight. Breast feeding, changing eating habits, and adding regular exercise really helped with that.

PensFanInDC wrote:The wife didn't cut her hair. We do this thing called "working together" so we each get our own alone time pretty much every day. I am also lucky because my wife is 40lbs BELOW her pre-pregnancy weight. Breast feeding, changing eating habits, and adding regular exercise really helped with that.

yeah, nursing burns mega calories. and my wife can't eat dairy because the baby reacts to it, so that'll certainly contribute to some weight loss. she was back to her pre-pregnancy weight a few weeks after delivery, but she didn't gain much to begin with. it's not my place to say, but oh well...there's no good reason someone has to balloon up during pregnancy. the baby barely even eats.

Sarcastic wrote:Is that really true, on both the kids part and the sexuality? I don't think I would want to eradicate my own life for 'kids'. I'll love my kids and spoil the heck out of them, but I also couldn't give up my own life in the process. It pisses me off enough when a woman becomes so 'dedicated' to her newborn, she cuts off her beautiful long hair since it's easier to shower in 5 min. so she could jump back in with the baby. Some women become slobs when they have a child, too, completely removing any sexuality and sensuality they had before marriage and the whole thing becomes like a business arrangement.

I respect and appreciate your views on this subject. That being said, since these are your views, please never have a child or the responsibility of raising one. Why? Because doing so REQUIRES that you give your life up. And you know what? It doesn't matter nor do I care that I've had to do it because I love my son more than anything that has ever existed.

I differ with you on that then. I think it's important and actually crucial, for one's sanity, to preserve their own life after having kids. It has nothing to do with raising kids. For one, I feel when having a kid, one should have a strong support system, like a set of (grand)parents who live close by and can take care of the kid when you do want a night off to go out or just relax at home.

Sarcastic wrote:Is that really true, on both the kids part and the sexuality? I don't think I would want to eradicate my own life for 'kids'. I'll love my kids and spoil the heck out of them, but I also couldn't give up my own life in the process. It pisses me off enough when a woman becomes so 'dedicated' to her newborn, she cuts off her beautiful long hair since it's easier to shower in 5 min. so she could jump back in with the baby. Some women become slobs when they have a child, too, completely removing any sexuality and sensuality they had before marriage and the whole thing becomes like a business arrangement.

I respect and appreciate your views on this subject. That being said, since these are your views, please never have a child or the responsibility of raising one. Why? Because doing so REQUIRES that you give your life up. And you know what? It doesn't matter nor do I care that I've had to do it because I love my son more than anything that has ever existed.

I differ with you on that then. I think it's important and actually crucial, for one's sanity, to preserve their own life after having kids. It has nothing to do with raising kids. For one, I feel when having a kid, one should have a strong support system, like a set of (grand)parents who live close by and can take care of the kid when you do want a night off to go out or just relax at home.

This is VERY true. We are blessed to have my wife's mother living with us. We get to do a date night about twice a month. It's not that hard with her mom living with us. We just put him to bed and go out to catch a late dinner (8pm ish) and maybe a movie or some drinks.

Sarcastic wrote:Is that really true, on both the kids part and the sexuality? I don't think I would want to eradicate my own life for 'kids'. I'll love my kids and spoil the heck out of them, but I also couldn't give up my own life in the process. It pisses me off enough when a woman becomes so 'dedicated' to her newborn, she cuts off her beautiful long hair since it's easier to shower in 5 min. so she could jump back in with the baby. Some women become slobs when they have a child, too, completely removing any sexuality and sensuality they had before marriage and the whole thing becomes like a business arrangement.

I respect and appreciate your views on this subject. That being said, since these are your views, please never have a child or the responsibility of raising one. Why? Because doing so REQUIRES that you give your life up. And you know what? It doesn't matter nor do I care that I've had to do it because I love my son more than anything that has ever existed.

I differ with you on that then. I think it's important and actually crucial, for one's sanity, to preserve their own life after having kids. It has nothing to do with raising kids. For one, I feel when having a kid, one should have a strong support system, like a set of (grand)parents who live close by and can take care of the kid when you do want a night off to go out or just relax at home.

I think basically you can have no idea about what you will or won't want to do when, where, and with whom after you have kids. When I look back at all thoughts I had about being a parent, having a kid, having a second kid, etc. I realize how silly it was to have thought I could be able to plan or consider any of that until I was actually in the situation. Its like a middle schooler trying to say what they want to be when they grow up and what kind of business environment they want to work in -- no basis for being able to meaningfully participate in that thought exercise. This seems particularly evident to me with you preconceived notion that you will want to do everything that you had been doing before having a child but will feel burdened by having a child such that you can no longer do those things. My wife does not go out with her friends as often as she did before my daughter was born, not because she's "doing it for the kid" or because we don't have the appropriate support system, but because she'd rather spend time with our daughter. I want to do more of what I used to do than my wife does (but still not all of it), and I do it and that is not a problem.

Overall you seem to have this assumption that your wants when you have no other responsibilities most accurately represents what one really wants and that you must be unconditionally loyal to those wants, even as your circumstance changes. I don't think it is that simple. Sometimes your wants and your priorities evolve. I don't think a set of wants that develop as a consequence of being married and a parent are somehow less valid because if the wanter was still unburdened by these responsibilities he/she may want something different. No different than choosing a demanding education path and having to sacrifice pre-education path activities in order to make it. If your want for that education path outweighs your other wants, then you have to give some things up.

I am not intending to sound condescending, I just really think you have this wrong. For your sake, I hope you won't be too close-minded about the possibility of your desires changing as your circumstances change. Don't feel beholden to your single self set of wants for the rest of your life -- there might be a different life out that there actually makes you more happy than you are right now.

Sarcastic wrote:I think it's important and actually crucial, for one's sanity, to preserve their own life after having kids. It has nothing to do with raising kids. For one, I feel when having a kid, one should have a strong support system, like a set of (grand)parents who live close by and can take care of the kid when you do want a night off to go out or just relax at home.

This is VERY true. We are blessed to have my wife's mother living with us. We get to do a date night about twice a month. It's not that hard with her mom living with us. We just put him to bed and go out to catch a late dinner (8pm ish) and maybe a movie or some drinks.

Kraftster wrote:I think basically you can have no idea about what you will or won't want to do when, where, and with whom after you have kids. When I look back at all thoughts I had about being a parent, having a kid, having a second kid, etc. I realize how silly it was to have thought I could be able to plan or consider any of that until I was actually in the situation. Its like a middle schooler trying to say what they want to be when they grow up and what kind of business environment they want to work in -- no basis for being able to meaningfully participate in that thought exercise. This seems particularly evident to me with you preconceived notion that you will want to do everything that you had been doing before having a child but will feel burdened by having a child such that you can no longer do those things. My wife does not go out with her friends as often as she did before my daughter was born, not because she's "doing it for the kid" or because we don't have the appropriate support system, but because she'd rather spend time with our daughter. I want to do more of what I used to do than my wife does (but still not all of it), and I do it and that is not a problem.

Overall you seem to have this assumption that your wants when you have no other responsibilities most accurately represents what one really wants and that you must be unconditionally loyal to those wants, even as your circumstance changes. I don't think it is that simple. Sometimes your wants and your priorities evolve. I don't think a set of wants that develop as a consequence of being married and a parent are somehow less valid because if the wanter was still unburdened by these responsibilities he/she may want something different. No different than choosing a demanding education path and having to sacrifice pre-education path activities in order to make it. If your want for that education path outweighs your other wants, then you have to give some things up.

I am not intending to sound condescending, I just really think you have this wrong. For your sake, I hope you won't be too close-minded about the possibility of your desires changing as your circumstances change. Don't feel beholden to your single self set of wants for the rest of your life -- there might be a different life out that there actually makes you more happy than you are right now.

You may be taking what I said too literally. Of course you need to be dedicated to your kids and of course your priorities change when you do have kids. That doesn't mean one shouldn't have a real life, as well, and at least do something fun once in a while.

PensFanInDC wrote:This is VERY true. We are blessed to have my wife's mother living with us. We get to do a date night about twice a month. It's not that hard with her mom living with us. We just put him to bed and go out to catch a late dinner (8pm ish) and maybe a movie or some drinks.

i hate you.

we've gone out twice without the baby in 8 months, and both evenings had a rushed feel to them.

Kraftster wrote:I think basically you can have no idea about what you will or won't want to do when, where, and with whom after you have kids. When I look back at all thoughts I had about being a parent, having a kid, having a second kid, etc. I realize how silly it was to have thought I could be able to plan or consider any of that until I was actually in the situation. Its like a middle schooler trying to say what they want to be when they grow up and what kind of business environment they want to work in -- no basis for being able to meaningfully participate in that thought exercise. This seems particularly evident to me with you preconceived notion that you will want to do everything that you had been doing before having a child but will feel burdened by having a child such that you can no longer do those things. My wife does not go out with her friends as often as she did before my daughter was born, not because she's "doing it for the kid" or because we don't have the appropriate support system, but because she'd rather spend time with our daughter. I want to do more of what I used to do than my wife does (but still not all of it), and I do it and that is not a problem.

Overall you seem to have this assumption that your wants when you have no other responsibilities most accurately represents what one really wants and that you must be unconditionally loyal to those wants, even as your circumstance changes. I don't think it is that simple. Sometimes your wants and your priorities evolve. I don't think a set of wants that develop as a consequence of being married and a parent are somehow less valid because if the wanter was still unburdened by these responsibilities he/she may want something different. No different than choosing a demanding education path and having to sacrifice pre-education path activities in order to make it. If your want for that education path outweighs your other wants, then you have to give some things up.

I am not intending to sound condescending, I just really think you have this wrong. For your sake, I hope you won't be too close-minded about the possibility of your desires changing as your circumstances change. Don't feel beholden to your single self set of wants for the rest of your life -- there might be a different life out that there actually makes you more happy than you are right now.

You may be taking what I said too literally. Of course you need to be dedicated to your kids and of course your priorities change when you do have kids. That doesn't mean one shouldn't have a real life, as well, and at least do something fun once in a while.

I understand the importance of having your own life and the need for fulfilling your adult needs. However, I think where I lose you is your seemingly strong attachment to the female anatomy. Sure, I enjoy the female body as much as any heterosexual guy. However, I would think anyone would remove said body part if it meant drastically increasing your chance of life. What good will those body parts be if you end up with a disease that threatens your quality and eventually length of life? Sure, Angelina Jolie could have kept her breasts and rolled the dice but what happens if she dies in 10-15 years like her mother did from cancer? Not only does this decision ensure that she has a chance to be there for her children for much longer, it also allows her to enjoy everything much longer and with a higher quality of life.

But as I said, I think I'm just on a different wave length than you. After reading your post about how you enjoy your webcam time, you place a much higher importance on sexuality than I do. That's not a bad thing. Different strokes for different folks.

Crankshaft wrote:I understand the importance of having your own life and the need for fulfilling your adult needs. However, I think where I lose you is your seemingly strong attachment to the female anatomy. Sure, I enjoy the female body as much as any heterosexual guy. However, I would think anyone would remove said body part if it meant drastically increasing your chance of life. What good will those body parts be if you end up with a disease that threatens your quality and eventually length of life? Sure, Angelina Jolie could have kept her breasts and rolled the dice but what happens if she dies in 10-15 years like her mother did from cancer? Not only does this decision ensure that she has a chance to be there for her children for much longer, it also allows her to enjoy everything much longer and with a higher quality of life.

But as I said, I think I'm just on a different wave length than you. After reading your post about how you enjoy your webcam time, you place a much higher importance on sexuality than I do. That's not a bad thing. Different strokes for different folks.

Is that a serious post? I'm wondering. Sexuality is one of the greatest things about being human and everyone deserves to have a happy, fulfilling, sex life. That's one. But I actually don't know why you brought that up because when I talked about having some resemblance of a life outside of being a parent, I actually wasn't talking about that (although of course it is a part of it), since I could have simply been implying going dancing or hiking with some biddies for a weekend or spending time on whatever hobby a person may have. You kinda drifted to a single thing there and I'm not sure why.

The Angelina thing should be open to the individual and I don't think I will theorize here. I don't think I would do what she did if I were in her shoes, but it doesnt matter. There is no right or wrong answer.

Sarcastic wrote:I don't think it's as easy as saying "ah, just get the breasts removed, snip snip, and everything will be as before in your life". I don't aim to try to understand what it feels like to be a woman like Angelina who's at high risk, but at the same time I'm not sure I believe in preventive surgery like that. Women do worry about their sexuality and attractiveness, for one. It's not a shallow thing to say, just normal and honest. I can almost accept why a woman who is under very high risk may decide to have the surgery, I just hope it isn't overdone and that there aren't unscrupulous doctors out there pushing women to it for money.

She says she is also at 50% risk of getting ovarian cancer. Is she going to do anything about that as well?