Here it is. Take notice of where the supporters are all from. Another thing I didn't know was Native Americans sued and on described it as using the "N" word. Listen very carefully if Native Americans are offended, THEN IT IS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has an opinion in the matter.

I dislike the name but I wouldn't say it offends me. Their logo (and crude cartoonish depictions of it) bothers me more. Being 1/4th native I would sooner cheer for the Taliban then Washington.

Their FO/owner are quite stupid however. An NFL team that opens themselves up to the kind of lawsuits that will ensue from a derogatory name is completely stupid. They'd have gained a lot of support changing names in an effort to not be offensive instead of attracting bad publicity acting like jerks. They're setting themselves up for a reduced fan base when they ought to be gaining every bandwagoneer they can, and soon the NFL will will be on the hot seat as well.

Doesn't matter to me how many Americans support them clinging to their name. The NFL is after a larger market then those that care enough to respond to a pro football poll and want nothing to change for sentimental reasons. If their breast cancer hype from last year makes an inroad to women fans, well, they'll be a lot more sensitive to this issue then the average male fan. Not to mention the media will sway popular opinion one of these days, resistance is futile.

Here it is. Take notice of where the supporters are all from. Another thing I didn't know was Native Americans sued and on described it as using the "N" word. Listen very carefully if Native Americans are offended, THEN IT IS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has an opinion in the matter.

Most Native Americans are NOT offended by the "Redskins" name. It seems to be liberal middle aged white men that are somehow offended by more and more things these days that are trying to tell others what they should think. If the Native American's were offended by the name, we would hear about it because it would be a HUGE story in the news. It's not a huge story.

Here it is. Take notice of where the supporters are all from. Another thing I didn't know was Native Americans sued and on described it as using the "N" word. Listen very carefully if Native Americans are offended, THEN IT IS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has an opinion in the matter.

Most Native Americans are NOT offended by the "Redskins" name. It seems to be liberal middle aged white men that are somehow offended by more and more things these days that are trying to tell others what they should think. If the Native American's were offended by the name, we would hear about it because it would be a HUGE story in the news. It's not a huge story.

Here it is. Take notice of where the supporters are all from. Another thing I didn't know was Native Americans sued and on described it as using the "N" word. Listen very carefully if Native Americans are offended, THEN IT IS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has an opinion in the matter.

Most Native Americans are NOT offended by the "Redskins" name. It seems to be liberal middle aged white men that are somehow offended by more and more things these days that are trying to tell others what they should think. If the Native American's were offended by the name, we would hear about it because it would be a HUGE story in the news. It's not a huge story.

This was not a referendum on the NFL club. This was a referendum on every high school, college, and NFL team that uses an native inspired mascot.

Natives don't have that big of a problem with schools using the name. They aren't going to be indignant at a bunch of adolescents using the name. A bunch of millionaires capitalizing off the term, however, and that charity ends.

Mistrust of the federal govt. for breaking every single treaty ever signed with tribes, corporations and robber barons taking arable land and resources leaving tribes to starve, and generations of free press that did nothing except applaud their plight, they want to be left alone, not have a new batch of lying corporate paid idiots ignore and/or misrepresent their voice again and laugh in their face over it.

Want to know what they really think? Go drive to a reservation alone, hit the quiet bars where Caucasians rarely go and refer to the patrons as redskins and redmen. Remember, card carrying natives can only be subjected for federal penalties for whatever happens, federal sentences are surprisingly light without the heavier state penalties tacked on.

I'm not sure it matters to me whether or not people of Native American descent are offended by the name. It's still a racial slur, so it offends me. It's 2013, that's all I'm sayin', let's act like it.

Here it is. Take notice of where the supporters are all from. Another thing I didn't know was Native Americans sued and on described it as using the "N" word. Listen very carefully if Native Americans are offended, THEN IT IS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has an opinion in the matter.

Most Native Americans are NOT offended by the "Redskins" name. It seems to be liberal middle aged white men that are somehow offended by more and more things these days that are trying to tell others what they should think. If the Native American's were offended by the name, we would hear about it because it would be a HUGE story in the news. It's not a huge story.

You couldn't have a team named "The Black Skins" or "The Yellow Skins" with a matching logo. You don't even need to explain why it wouldn't be tolerated and you wouldn't need to wait for someone to get offended by it.

Let's not draw the line there, you don't go far enough. The Clevland Indians should be renamed because it offends Native Americans, the Notre Dame fighting Irish slanders those of Irish decent as being born of violence so they should give up their name also. Further, let us not remain ignorant neandrethals and only account for American history, but all teams with the Aztec name should give that up as I am sure it was not a name adopted by the natives of that land. Even than I am sure some in the satanist following are offended by the Sun Devils of Arizona State so of course they should give up that name as well, for we wouldn't want to be hypocritical would we? Yes, there is some gest here, but don't succumb to annachronistic tendencies when disparaging entire fanbases for following a team with a name which most certainly was offensive to some group at a given time.

Here it is. Take notice of where the supporters are all from. Another thing I didn't know was Native Americans sued and on described it as using the "N" word. Listen very carefully if Native Americans are offended, THEN IT IS RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one else has an opinion in the matter.

Most Native Americans are NOT offended by the "Redskins" name. It seems to be liberal middle aged white men that are somehow offended by more and more things these days that are trying to tell others what they should think. If the Native American's were offended by the name, we would hear about it because it would be a HUGE story in the news. It's not a huge story.

Besides, there is a politics forum for you to rant against liberals. Please do not pollute the rest of the forum with your nonsense.

So do you disagree with his post, or are you getting more personal? Since there is a clear understanding of how the forum works displayed in your post, I would assume you meant to disagree with the post and just accidentally muddled it up with the poster-attacking language.

Take the story of the FSU Seminoles. The relationship between the Seminole tribe and FSU is not storybook perfect, but FSU lets the tribe provide the mascot and PROFITS the tribe through merchandising royalties, provides full scholarship to native Seminole students, etc etc. In this case, the Seminole tribe has voted in favor of the school keeping the Seminole name. Because the deal is MUTUALLY beneficial.

Show me a multi-millionaire led professional team that capitalizes off a Native mascot that is giving back to the Native community.

It's not so much the what as the how. FSU and the Seminole tribe actually have a relationship. Snyder just wants to protect his money. Whenever the cost of the lawsuits is greater then the cost of changing the team name, it will happen. Because that is the bottom line. Not tradition, respect, or anything else but Snyder's profit margin.

CurryStopstheRuns wrote:Well. that just seals the deal then. Who can argue with that logic.

Besides, there is a politics forum for you to rant against liberals. Please do not pollute the rest of the forum with your nonsense.

So do you disagree with his post, or are you getting more personal? Since there is a clear understanding of how the forum works displayed in your post, I would assume you meant to disagree with the post and just accidentally muddled it up with the poster-attacking language.

Or, maybe you are hypersensitive and it causes you to read too much into some things?

Lady Talon wrote:Take the story of the FSU Seminoles. The relationship between the Seminole tribe and FSU is not storybook perfect, but FSU lets the tribe provide the mascot and PROFITS the tribe through merchandising royalties, provides full scholarship to native Seminole students, etc etc. In this case, the Seminole tribe has voted in favor of the school keeping the Seminole name. Because the deal is MUTUALLY beneficial.

Show me a multi-millionaire led professional team that capitalizes off a Native mascot that is giving back to the Native community.

It's not so much the what as the how. FSU and the Seminole tribe actually have a relationship. Snyder just wants to protect his money. Whenever the cost of the lawsuits is greater then the cost of changing the team name, it will happen. Because that is the bottom line. Not tradition, respect, or anything else but Snyder's profit margin.

The Chippewas and Central Michigan also have some kind of understanding I believe.

Lady Talon wrote:Take the story of the FSU Seminoles. The relationship between the Seminole tribe and FSU is not storybook perfect, but FSU lets the tribe provide the mascot and PROFITS the tribe through merchandising royalties, provides full scholarship to native Seminole students, etc etc. In this case, the Seminole tribe has voted in favor of the school keeping the Seminole name. Because the deal is MUTUALLY beneficial.

Show me a multi-millionaire led professional team that capitalizes off a Native mascot that is giving back to the Native community.

It's not so much the what as the how. FSU and the Seminole tribe actually have a relationship. Snyder just wants to protect his money. Whenever the cost of the lawsuits is greater then the cost of changing the team name, it will happen. Because that is the bottom line. Not tradition, respect, or anything else but Snyder's profit margin.

Also of note, "Seminole" is not and never has been a derogatory term; it is a proper name originating from that tribe to describe themselves. "Redskins" is... less so. The name really needs changing. I'm fully behind seeing the "Washington Redtails" become a reality. And soon after, we can start lobbying for other teams to change to more inuendo-laced terms.

World Champion Seattle Seahawks football. It's an addiction, and there is no cure.Les Norton - gone but never forgotten. Rest in blue and green peace, my friend.

Lady Talon wrote:Take the story of the FSU Seminoles. The relationship between the Seminole tribe and FSU is not storybook perfect, but FSU lets the tribe provide the mascot and PROFITS the tribe through merchandising royalties, provides full scholarship to native Seminole students, etc etc. In this case, the Seminole tribe has voted in favor of the school keeping the Seminole name. Because the deal is MUTUALLY beneficial.

Show me a multi-millionaire led professional team that capitalizes off a Native mascot that is giving back to the Native community.

It's not so much the what as the how. FSU and the Seminole tribe actually have a relationship. Snyder just wants to protect his money. Whenever the cost of the lawsuits is greater then the cost of changing the team name, it will happen. Because that is the bottom line. Not tradition, respect, or anything else but Snyder's profit margin.

Also of note, "Seminole" is not and never has been a derogatory term; it is a proper name originating from that tribe to describe themselves. "Redskins" is... less so. The name really needs changing. I'm fully behind seeing the "Washington Redtails" become a reality. And soon after, we can start lobbying for other teams to change to more inuendo-laced terms.

Lol they are offended. They are willing to let it slide because the Florida Seminole tribe is one of the most successful gaming tribes in the country, and making the state mad could change that very quickly.

The Seminole tribe of Oklahoma voted 18-2 to not oppose Native American mascots, despite many of their members disgusted at the Seminoles of FL, and speaking up at the council meetings. Native politics are still politics.

Money talks.

They aren't amused at stadiums full of fans tomahawking, screaming "scalp 'em!", or having their tribal name referred to as being "on the warpath", as these are the very caricatures the media used in the 19th century to throw the Natives into reservations because they were savages and not capable of transitioning into a peaceful society. Not to mention having their namesake and heritage referred to as "Noles".

Take their pre 1970 mascots: Sammy Seminole and his sidekick Chief Fullabull (really?) later changed to Chief Wampumstompem (a clever little name that makes a mockery of the highly regarded Chief Wampum).

What it boils down to is the tribes can take the high road and risk resentment and state officials ripping their gaming money out from under them, or they can play along. Sad really, but at least in the FSU case there's compensation for their shame.

I know just was pointing out that while the Seminoles and the FSU have a profitable relationship, it's certainly not without it's intrigue.

Snyder really should cut the excuses while he still has time to look gracious about it. But somebody with his connections could quite obviously influence a state gaming commission here and there to get what he wants as far as Tribal polls efficiently and quietly. Gaming money is quite a pull for Tribes.