In blow to DADT repeal, talks with Senator Collins hit wall

By
Greg Sargent

Senior Senate Democratic aides are in a panic this morning about the prospects for repeal of don't ask don't tell, because talks with Senator Susan Collins over her procedural demands have hit a wall, with the Democratic leadership dismissing her requests as unreasonable and counterproductive, a senior Dem aide close to the talks tells me.

The talks are continuing as we speak, so all is not lost yet. Indeed, the logjam in the discussions comes as Dem leaders have stepped up their efforts to get moderate Republicans to agree to vote for cloture on repeal, with President Obama personally calling Senators on both sides, the aide says.

Collins has said she supports repeal, but won't agree to vote for cloture on the Defense Authorization Bill containing repeal if Harry Reid doesn't allow ample time for open debate and amendments on the bill.

In private discussions between Collins and Reid this morning, and between their staffs over the weekend, Collins has demanded that Reid allow what's known as "unlimited debate" on the bill in order for her to vote for repeal, the aide close to the talks says.

Reid has rejected this demand, the aide continues. The problem is that this could allow any Senator to hijack the proceedings by introducing a "non-germane amendment," thus holding the floor.

Reid does not think Collins herself intends to do this, the aide continues. Rather, he worries that another GOP Senator who strongly opposes repeal, such as Tom Coburn or Jim DeMint, could take advantage of unlimited debate in this fashion to run out the clock.

Reid has offered Collins a total of 15 amendments in order to get her to vote Yes -- 10 for Repubicans and five for Democrats, the aide continues. Reid views this as a reasonable offer, because previous debates on defense authorization bills have had roughly this number of amendments offered, the aide adds.

But as of now, Collins has indicated this offer is "unsatisafctory," the aide says. A Collins spokesperson denied this account in an email, but declined to elaborate.

Adding to the urgency, Reid announced this morning that he will bring the Defense Authorization Bill to the floor for a vote this evening. Proponents of repeal worry that this could scuttle repeal, because Republicans have insisted they will not support it if the debate over the tax cuts is not resolved, meaning that repeal could be defeated tonight.

But the aide close to the talks defended Reid's decision, arguing that it's just as risky to postpone the vote on repeal. "There's concern that members of her caucus will be out the door as soon as we pass everything Republicans want," the aide says.

More when I learn it.

UPDATE, 12:41 p.m.: A spokesman for Collins flatly denies she asked Reid for unlimited debate. Rather, the spokesman says, Collins has pointed out to Reid that the average number of days spent debating previous defense authorization bills has been 11 days, with an average of 14 or so amendments considered. Collins has asked Reid to come up with a comparable offer, the spokesman says.

No one appears to be disputing that the talks have hit a snag, though.

UPDATE, 1:26 p.m.: Senator Joe Lieberman, who has been working hard behind the scenes to bring GOP moderates aboard, issues a statement denying that Collins has been operating in bad faith and defending her approach to ongoing talks:

"Senator Collins has been working in good faith to achieve an agreement on the process to move forward with the defense bill that contains the repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.' I categorically reject reports by uninformed staffers who have suggested otherwise. As she always does, Senator Collins is working diligently and across party lines to find solutions to the challenges that confront our country. I call on those responsible for such baseless allegations to stop immediately and instead work to get to an agreement to bring this critical bill to the floor for Senate action.

"We are making progress toward an agreement to move forward on the defense bill that includes the repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and I remain confident that we can reach an agreement, which is necessary before any vote on the motion to reconsider is taken. I am working closely with Senator Reid and Senator Collins and other members who want to reach a fair and reasonable agreement to move the defense authorization bill that that is so essential to the needs of our troops, veterans, and their families.

"It is now more clear than ever that we have 60 or more votes in support of repealing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' so it is vitally important to reach agreement on the right process to move forward."

No one, however, has said that Collins is operating in bad faith. In fact, the source close to the talks specifically told me that Reid doesn't think Collins is deliberately scheming to scuttle the process; he just thinks her demands are unreasonable.

At any rate, this from Lieberman is a good development, because it suggests the talks are continuing.

Once again the Queen of the Bigots shows her true colors. This is exactly the same game Susan Collins was playing before the elections. Of course some Senator (DeMint or McCain) will be offering non-germane after non-germane, holding civil rights hostage to their own bigotry. Susan Collins knows she never has to vote on this issue because DeMint and McCain have her back, and she has theirs. Shame on her.

Just fyi, the nation's psychiatric hospital capacity can't possible handle the need. Beds are so rarely available, even as the growth in jail and prison beds has kept pace, the mentally ill tend either to be ignored in jail or under a bridge.

None of this should surprise anyone on the Left. Other than making sure that they extended the tax cut to their rich donors, McConnell and company had no plans to let START, DADT or the Dream Act pass in this lame duck session.

Posted by: Liam-still: "That's right SBJ. Harry Reid is preventing Republicans from passing the repeal, because we all know how much the Republicans favor equal rights for gay people."
-------------------------------------

Republicans will never allow the repeal to pass. because they prefer to always run against gay rights. It works for them. Every time they run an anti gay marriage referendum, they win, so they are not about to discard their last acceptable American Bigotry Card.

It is absolutely inconceivable that the Republicans will hand Obama a banner of victory to carry in his triumphant and outstretched hand, to rally his base, in the 2012 election.

At the same time, it is absolutely inconceivable that the Republicans will send a smashing left hook into the jaw of their own political base, making sure there will be zero enthusiasm to go to the polls to elect a Republican president in the 2012 election.

The Republicans have made the political calculation, that in the final analysis, if they don’t block DADT Repeal here and now, that they will give Obama the edge in the 2012 presidential election, first, by giving him a banner of victory that he can carry before his troops, and second by delivering a heavy blow against the morale of their own troops, a one-two punch that would deny them the one or two percentage points they need to make the difference between victory or defeat in their quest for control of the White House in 2012.

The Republicans have the votes to block this. And they will block this. That is what the famous 42 signature letter was all about.

@ethan/Liam: The evidence is right in front of your eyes! Brown, Collins - Lieberman all say there are 60 votes for cloture provided Reid provides adequate/traditional time for debate and amendments. Ask Greg for cryin' out loud!

Reid has refused for several weeks now (where have you guys been?) to schedule the defense authorization for normal/standard debate and amendments. We can get this done but instead he insists on bringing it up with these foolish limits. All he is trying to do is get rubes like you to blame the GOP so that he can use DADT in 2012 to paint all conservatives as homophobes. Reid, quite obviously to anyone with a working brain, is going to defer to the courts to force repeal so that he can use DADT for purely political and cynical purposes. It is just as sickening, if not more sickening, than anything the GOP has ever done to scapegoat gays. The difference this time is that the votes are there to repeal it but Reid won't bring the bill up for normal order.

The death of DADT repeal is more Kabuki; everyone knows what is going to happen, the art is in the styling, the choreography, the phrasing and articulation of the inevitable...but here is some drama with a twist.

It is absolutely inconceivable that the Republicans will hand Obama a banner of victory to carry in his triumphant and outstretched hand, to rally his base, in the 2012 election.

At the same time, it is absolutely inconceivable that the Republicans will send a smashing left hook into the jaw of their own political base, making sure there will be zero enthusiasm to go to the polls to elect a Republican president in the 2012 election.

The Republicans have made the political calculation, that in the final analysis, if they don’t block DADT Repeal here and now, that they will give Obama the edge in the 2012 presidential election, first, by giving him a banner of victory that he can carry before his troops, and second by delivering a heavy blow against the morale of their own troops, a one-two punch that would deny them the one or two percentage points they need to make the difference between victory or defeat in their quest for control of the White House in 2012.

The Republicans have the votes to block this. And they will block this. That is what the famous 42 signature letter was all about.

"John McCain is against repeal of DADT. SBJ voted for John McCain, but SBJ claims that it is Harry Reid who is preventing Republicans from emancipating gay people."

LOL! Thanks for the best laugh of the day.

"Lieberman all say there are 60 votes for cloture provided Reid provides adequate/traditional time for debate and amendments."

Actually, he said there "MAY" be 60 votes. The "adequate time" thing is the hang-up point. "Adequate time" may mean just running out the clock in GOP speak. But why bother posting if you don't read the article SBJ? Seems you come pre-loaded with your own propaganda and don't even read the article to which the posts are attached.

sbj, I have no clue how you can twist this into Reid preventing DADT from passing. If this is how you deal with your inner self in trying to justify siding with Republicans then that's fine, but don't try and pawn your nonsense off on the rest of us.

Oh and, if I see anything less than Obama swinging around the halls of Congress like Tarzan, King of the Jungle, directing the Tarzan yell at anyone now allowing debate and ultimately a vote on this, he's not showing leadership.

@alex: "It is now more clear than ever that we have 60 or more votes in support of repealing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' so it is vitally important to reach agreement on the right process to move forward."

@alex: ""It is now more clear than ever that we have 60 or more votes in support of repealing 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' so it is vitally important to reach agreement on the right process to move forward."

Do you miss entire parts that state Republicans will tie up the debate endlessly? Or do those just get in your way of breathlessly supporting the party that overwhelmingly and openly doesn't support equality for gays?

"""Despite weeks of questions and deliberations with Democrats, Collins has yet to signal her final intentions or to clarify what a "fair debate process" means, according to Senate aides and others familiar with the negotiations."""

If Reid brings this forward without reaching an agreement on process then he will be scuttling repeal of DADT in 2010. He will be to blame, not Collins, not the GOP, not the gay lobby. The 60 cloture votes are there if Reid will agree to a normal process. Greg is making it as plain as day for y'all to read. Lieberman is making it clear. Collins and Brown have both said they favor repeal and will vote for cloture provided an agreed-upon process.

Reid is preventing repeal of DADT.

Reid is betting that the courts will overturn it and that he can fool folks like ethan/mike/liam into thinking it was the GOP that prevented a vote. Greg is seemingly trying his hardest to get his readers to understand the awful truth but I don't think they are getting it.

"My worry is that Dem leaders think that if they schedule just a few days of floor debate, and Collins balks, they'll be able to blame her unreasonableness for the failure of DADT repeal. If they do that, they will have a plausible case. The only problem will be that DADT will remain in place.

"If Dem leaders don't give Collins the floor debate she wants, there's no chance DADT will be repealed this year. If they do, there's some chance it will be repealed. And there's no serious downside to holding a week of debate, except that it might complicate the travel plans of a few dozen Senators who already have pretty comfortable lives. The latter option is clearly worth the tradeoff.

"If repeal is going to have any chance at all of happening, it's largely on Reid and Obama."

"My worry is that Dem leaders think that if they schedule just a few days of floor debate, and Collins balks, they'll be able to blame her unreasonableness for the failure of DADT repeal. If they do that, they will have a plausible case. The only problem will be that DADT will remain in place.

"If Dem leaders don't give Collins the floor debate she wants, there's no chance DADT will be repealed this year. If they do, there's some chance it will be repealed. And there's no serious downside to holding a week of debate, except that it might complicate the travel plans of a few dozen Senators who already have pretty comfortable lives. The latter option is clearly worth the tradeoff.

"If repeal is going to have any chance at all of happening, it's largely on Reid and Obama."

I'm basing this off the reality that DeMint and others in the Republican party have shown time and time again, they will do anything to bog down and kill legislation if there is a way to do it.

Like I said, Reid is probably right but I'd like to see a confirmation or denial from Republicans on if they will tie this up on the floor until the new Congress convenes, thus proving Reid's concerns.

Given that Reid's position is being promulgated by unnamed aids while Collins spokesman and Lieberman are willing to go on the record makes me tend to question Reid's veracity. Having said that, the outline of the offer described, 10 amendments for the Republicans and 5 for Democrats strikes me as reasonable assuming enough time is allowed for debate. The 11 days cited by Collins strikes me as also reasonable.

I wonder if Reid is doing some sort of sabotage here to due to the problems the Senate Democrats are encountering with Obama's tax compromise with the Republicans and the need to roll all of next years spending into an Omnibus bill and include the earmarks rather than doing them as individual bills. I.e. they don't have time to do the other things if Collins gets the amendments and the debate time so Reid wants to blow it up without leaving any fingerprints. Regardless, Collins position has been well known for weeks. Between her and Scott Brown, Reid could get a deal on this if he wanted it and if the Senate Democrats are willing to go along with the tax proposal that Obama and the Republicans put forth on Monday.

@ethan: I don't know what she's asking for - but Lieberman says she is bargaining in good faith. Reid and his staff, on the other hand, were caught in a lie. There's little downside to agreeing to whatever her demands are.

Read the Sargent piece above - it strongly argues that repeal of DADT this year depends on Reid. Greg is correct and you are being taken by Reid for a fool.

@battleground: And the lib posters here are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker!

Very well put by jnc4p:

"Collins position has been well known for weeks. Between her and Scott Brown, Reid could get a deal on this if he wanted it and if the Senate Democrats are willing to go along with the tax proposal that Obama and the Republicans put forth on Monday."

MORMON Harry Reid wants DADT Repeal to fail. This is a great show, but it isn't going to be repealed. It is only intended to make us believe Democrats and the LGBT-advocacy industry is effective - they are not.

Soon, we will hear "we were soooo close" and "please send more money." That request should be ignored.

@andrewW: I'm not much for the whole gay activism thing but I *will* plead with my brethren to not send any more money to Reid or Obama if they don't do the right thing here. It's on them. The 60 votes are there. Agree to her request and let's see what happens. As Greg wrote, "If Dem leaders don't give Collins the floor debate she wants, there's no chance DADT will be repealed this year." Give it a chance, Harry, you rear end.

There is nothing stopping Republicans like Collins from doing the right thing. What the hell debate more does she need to determine where she stands on the issue. She is either a homophobe or she is not. She already knows which she is.

The GOP will do whatever it takes to win. And "win" in this case means getting those amendments. IF they get them, you can count on all sorts of anti-liberal amendments. A ban on abortion in the military, regardless of who pays for it? Check. Ban on gay troops in combat forces? Check. Ban on same-sex couples in military base housing? Restatement of DOMA? Check. Etc., etc.

Their goal is to turn the segments of the liberal base against each other and united only in their opposition to the Dem leadership (for opening up the amendment process in the first place). It will be a cluster**ck of immense proportions.

@ethan: You don't seem to be understanding what is going on here. I just called Reid's office (202/224-3542) to tell them to accede to Collin's demands and to bring the defense authorization to the floor per her terms - whatever they are. The nice assistant told me that Reid *still* doesn't know what he is going to do. That means that if you and other call, you might be able to influence Reid to do the right thing. Please do call Reid's office and urge him to bring the bill to the floor per Collins' terms.

Be sure to call your preferred candidate, that you send many donations to; Raging Homophobe, Sharron Angle, and ask her to make some calls to Republican Senators on behalf of the repeal you claim to desire.

So now you need to call Reid's office and ask his assistant to tell him to accept her terms and bring the defense authorization to the floor.

And please, let's get everyone who supports repeal to call Reid's office and tell him to bring this to the floor no matter what the terms. This may be our only chance to get DADT repealed for a long time.

Be sure to call your preferred candidate, that you send many donations to; Raging Homophobe, Sharron Angle, and ask her to make some calls to Republican Senators on behalf of the repeal you claim to desire.

Your message has been received by Senator Collins's office. We will be in touch with you shortly if you requested a response. Your message has been reprinted below.

[personal info redacted]

Regarding negotiations with Harry Reid about debate terms for Defense Authorization: Please be reasonable in your requests. It is important that we get a chance to vote on repeal of DADT this year and we don't want to give Reid any excuses. Thank you.

Please be reasonable in accepting Senator Susan Collins' requests with regards to scheduling the Defense Authorization Bill with DADT repeal. It is important that we get a chance to vote on repeal of DADT this year and we don't want to give the Republicans any excuses that you didn't allow reasonable requests. We must pass DADT repeal this year. Thank you.

Letter to Collins:

Please VOTE FOR CLOTURE on the Defense Authorization Bill which contains DADT repeal. Just do it already. Vote for cloture and vote for repeal. Please get this done, Senator Collins. Thank you.

My view on whether homo­sex­u­als should be allowed to openly serve in the mil­i­tary has sig­nif­i­cantly evolved since I first joined the navy in 1983. I believe, and have for some time, that homo­sex­u­als should be allowed to serve openly. I came to this con­clu­sion for many rea­sons but here are the pri­mary ones:

1. It is in the best inter­est of our national secu­rity. Our coun­try is engaged in two active mil­i­tary cam­paigns in Iraq and Afghanistan while still keep­ing all of the other national secu­rity concerns–terrorism, Iran, North Korea, and many others–in check. Our nation sim­ply can­not afford to waste valu­able resources in any form, par­tic­u­larly its mil­i­tary resources. Our most valu­able national and mil­i­tary resource is our patri­otic cit­i­zens who vol­un­teer to serve and pro­tect our nation. Deny­ing our mil­i­tary the ser­vice of patri­otic vol­un­teers because of their sex­ual ori­en­ta­tion is not only short­sighted and stu­pid, it is poten­tially dam­ag­ing to mil­i­tary readi­ness and our national security.

2. It is in the best inter­est of our national psy­che. We all know very well that we are a coun­try founded on the truth that all men are cre­ated equal under the laws of nature and of God. This is deeply instilled into our national psy­che. Yet, we have had a painfully psy­cho­log­i­cal, and at times very phys­i­cal, strug­gle try­ing to turn this national belief into a national real­ity. We have learned from our long his­tory of attempt­ing to rec­on­cile our fun­da­men­tal beliefs with our country’s orig­i­nal sin of slav­ery, that when we as a nation say that we all are to receive equal rights under our laws while at the same time deny­ing these rights to a seg­ment of our soci­ety based on the color of their skin, our national psy­che suf­fered deeply from it. We became dys­func­tional, self-hating, and even came close to com­mit­ting national sui­cide over it. The cog­ni­tive dis­so­nance that occurs when say­ing one thing–that all men are cre­ated equal and are guar­an­teed equal rights under our laws–and then doing another–denying these equal rights based on race, sex, reli­gion, national ori­gin, or sex­ual orientation–is not only detri­men­tal to our national psy­che, it is damn­ing to our national soul.

Much more work still needs to be done to ensure homo­sex­u­als receive equal rights under our laws, but as a nation, we can go a long way to secur­ing our national secu­rity and improv­ing the health of our national psy­che sim­ply by allow­ing them to serve openly in the military.

To those who commented that our representatives in Congress should be only focusing on one issue and one issue only, my response is that is a very short-sighted and wasteful position to hold. We pay our politicians too much money for them to be so singularly focused. It's the 21st Century...we multitask now and so should our representatives.

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