The main failure point with any TiVo is the hard drive, I want a backup so I can replace the drive myself, I got the 1Tb R-6 and I hope we will have tools to expand the drive to 2Tb as that all I would ever need (for now).

I've had Tivos since the series 1 and I've never had a problem with any of them (tuning adapters on the otherhand....)

That is impressive. I'd had hard drive failures (usually around the 4 to 5 year old mark) on all of my TiVos, going back to the DirecTivos. I currently have two TiVoHD units that had upgraded 1 TB drives installed the week I received them in March of 2008. One drive died about a year ago. The other died about a month ago. When they died, I was able to swap the basement TiVo with the living room TiVo (main TiVo) giving me until the weekend to acquire a drive and do the drive copy again.

That is impressive. I'd had hard drive failures (usually around the 4 to 5 year old mark) on all of my TiVos, going back to the DirecTivos. I currently have two TiVoHD units that had upgraded 1 TB drives installed the week I received them in March of 2008. One drive died about a year ago. The other died about a month ago. When they died, I was able to swap the basement TiVo with the living room TiVo (main TiVo) giving me until the weekend to acquire a drive and do the drive copy again.

Maybe I just need to upgrade TiVo's more often.

Thankfully, I don't have to deal with tuning adapters in my area.

Even still so far I've yet to see a hard drive failure with a TiVo. My six DirecTV Tivos I bought in 2001 and 2003 are still being used by some friends I gave them to. They had Weaknees upgraded hard drives and have been running pretty much since they were upgraded.
Plus my GF has two of my old S3, OLED Tivos with Hitachi 1TB drives. Those have been runnning for over six years with those hard drives with no problems.

Although i don't know if the current hard drives are as resilient as those drives from years ago. But only time will tell.

Who knows? Maybe it's time I have a hard drive issue with a TiVo? I'll probably get my Roamio Pro and it will be DOA.
Although that would be preferable to the drive dying a few days after being put into service.

I have two Premieres each upgraded with 2TB drives. One is at 92% and the other at around 75% though I think I might have some duplicate stuff on each Tivo. I like to record full seasons of shows and then wait until the end to decide if I want to watch them. I also have big TV eyes, meaning I like to record a lot of stuff knowing I probably won't be able to get to them. Plus my kids have a lot of their stuff on there. I have them set their stuff to keep at most 5 but their junk adds up.

I'd actually like to buy the plus and upgrade the drive to 4TB but I think 3TB would be ok. I would hate to lose space on the upgrade (going from 4TB to 3TB) but I definitely can't do 1TB. While DSwallow's point is valid, I hate the idea of significantly overpaying for something.

Oh well, I'll probably wait a little longer and see what happens with the upgrades. I really don't find it much of a hassle to do the upgrade (at least it wasn't on the TivoHD and Premieres that I previously did).

I'm debating this same thing... is it worth the extra $200 to have it now, or pay ~$100 in the future when (if) the drive is upgradeable? I can't imagine i'd ever need more than 2 TB...

I've pretty much decided to go with the Pro. I used to always upgrade the hard drives in my TiVos. But the Elites were the first model that I did not upgrade. My plan will be not to upgrade the Roamio hard drive. But if an upgrade process is released quickly, before I get my Roamio Pro, Then I will probably pick up the Plus and upgrade it to a 3TB drive(since I have a spare 3TB Seagate) and then later a 4TB drive.

I've pretty much decided to go with the Pro. I used to always upgrade the hard drives in my TiVos. But the Elites were the first model that I did not upgrade. My plan will be not to upgrade the Roamio hard drive. But if an upgrade process is released quickly, before I get my Roamio Pro, Then I will probably pick up the Plus and upgrade it to a 3TB drive(since I have a spare 3TB Seagate) and then later a 4TB drive.

Yeah I upgraded the drive in both my TiVo HDs (but have not owned a premiere to be familiar with that process). It was easy enough, but it may be worth it not to have to even have to worry about it at all.

That is impressive. I'd had hard drive failures (usually around the 4 to 5 year old mark) on all of my TiVos, going back to the DirecTivos. I currently have two TiVoHD units that had upgraded 1 TB drives installed the week I received them in March of 2008. One drive died about a year ago. The other died about a month ago. When they died, I was able to swap the basement TiVo with the living room TiVo (main TiVo) giving me until the weekend to acquire a drive and do the drive copy again.

Maybe I just need to upgrade TiVo's more often.

Thankfully, I don't have to deal with tuning adapters in my area.

Regarding your to TivoHDs, it appears the drive failures were for the drives that you installed. Not saying Tivo oem drives don't fail but it's hard to complain about Tivo hardware failure when the failure was with your own equipment and not Tivo's.

Between me and my family members (all supported by me) I've only seen 2 internal and 1 external drive fail. The two internals were back in the S2 days. The external was on my wife's S3 and it failed slowly enough that we were able to transfer most of her recordings to mine before it died and needed to be replaced.

Premier XL4 is 57% full, Premier XL is 61% full. When you combine both and eliminate duplicates, I'll be about 50% full on my new Roamio Pro. And, if it ever gets really full, I can always add an external drive at some point. I also got the extended warranty because I've had a hard drive failure on one of my old Series 2 TiVo's a few years back, and I don't want to take a chance.

My xl4 has never been higher than 20% full. That makes me pretty comfortable with getting the plus.

then a plus make sense for you

I've got and XL premium with a external for 4TB total & run at abt 90-95% full. I do let shows stack up & watch them over the summer, plus I tend to record movies I think my 13 year old would like, in addition my husband watches sports.

i can't transfer non-major network shows off my tivo due to TW's policy. plus neither my husband or son will put up with getting stuff off my computer which isn't on 24/7.

i also usually record most every new drama premiere to see if i like it or not. Sometimes it takes me a while to get to watching them.

Is anyone else concerned with missing OTA on the Plus and Pro? Do most get the OTA channels with their digital cable channels anyways? I'm kind of puzzled why TiVo chose to exclude OTA tuning from the Plus and Pro... ???

I've got and XL premium with a external for 4TB total & run at abt 90-95% full. I do let shows stack up & watch them over the summer, plus I tend to record movies I think my 13 year old would like, in addition my husband watches sports.

i can't transfer non-major network shows off my tivo due to TW's policy. plus neither my husband or son will put up with getting stuff off my computer which isn't on 24/7.

i also usually record most every new drama premiere to see if i like it or not. Sometimes it takes me a while to get to watching them.

Is anyone else concerned with missing OTA on the Plus and Pro? Do most get the OTA channels with their digital cable channels anyways? I'm kind of puzzled why TiVo chose to exclude OTA tuning from the Plus and Pro... ???

Overall it's a balance of cost/utility. But yeah, most OTA channels come with the cable packages too. The cableco's are actually mandated to carry many/most of them.

OTA tuners haven't seen the same kind of advancements QAM tuners have (there's no money in OTA), so from Tivo's perspective adding 6 OTA tuners adds a not-insignificant complexity and cost to the product for a market that isn't very big (those that need 6 ota tuners)... So it's a balance. But it's great that there's finally a 4-tuner OTA model at least though.

Is anyone else concerned with missing OTA on the Plus and Pro? Do most get the OTA channels with their digital cable channels anyways? I'm kind of puzzled why TiVo chose to exclude OTA tuning from the Plus and Pro... ???

That is the main reason I opted for the basic Roamio even though I currently subscribe to cable. (I wish it could also be used with satellite but I'm treating a TiVo like I do most cellphones -- GSM or CDMA).

Overall it's a balance of cost/utility. But yeah, most OTA channels come with the cable packages too. The cableco's are actually mandated to carry many/most of them.

OTA tuners haven't seen the same kind of advancements QAM tuners have (there's no money in OTA), so from Tivo's perspective adding 6 OTA tuners adds a not-insignificant complexity and cost to the product for a market that isn't very big (those that need 6 ota tuners)... So it's a balance. But it's great that there's finally a 4-tuner OTA model at least though.

Thanks. That makes sense. I was weighing the value of OTA versus built-in Stream (Base versus Plus or Pro).

Regarding your to TivoHDs, it appears the drive failures were for the drives that you installed. Not saying Tivo oem drives don't fail but it's hard to complain about Tivo hardware failure when the failure was with your own equipment and not Tivo's.

The one caveat about the Roamio (if you weren't aware) is that the base model makes you choose between OTA or cable. It doesn't let you do both simultaneously.

Hmm. So long OTA. I'll go with the Pro, and keep my Premiere as an OTA DVR at our vaca place with no cable. It was kind of cool how the older TiVos seamlessly mixed OTA channels in the guide and to-do, but, as you said, OTA isn't really needed where you have cable. OTA was sorta nice, sometimes, because (in my case, I speculate) it seemed TW compressed the bejeezus out of some of the required-to-carry channels; could have sworn I saw better quality on some OTA channels for live ncaa fb games, etc. ...but, I digress.

It was kind of cool how the older TiVos seamlessly mixed OTA channels in the guide and to-do, but, as you said, OTA isn't really needed where you have cable.

I'm going to keep my two S3s running, as backup DVRs for when cable goes out. Not often, but we do get that occasional hurricane or storm. With OTA reception so strong in Houston (think FLAT, baby!), I get a beautiful signal. So I'll leave them running recording the four OTA nets, and get a new PRO for the six tuners. I also have an Elite I'll keep running.

I broke down and ordered a Pro from Weaknees. No tax, free shipping and $40 coupon sealed it.

I went back and forth considering the Basic and Plus, but in the end I went for convenience. 3TB should hold me over pretty much forever and with 6 tuners I don't think I'll ever have a conflict again.

I should be able to sell my lifetime Elite and standalone Stream to cover the hardware cost, so it's really only going to cost me the service fee.