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Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

So Vogel is such a stupid coach that he handcuffs a scorer good enough to rank in the top of the league, just because? Or does Lance not get the opportunity, beause he's not a good enough scorer to give free reign to?

Or it could be that the Pacers don't need any one player to put up huge numbers anymore. When Granger was scoring 20+ a game, he was pretty much Option 1, 2, 3 and probably 4. Don't need to do that anymore.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

I'm not the one that came up with that standard read the previous posts were the "unbiased" people are saying that "DG is twice the post defender"(hilarious) that Paul George is because Lebron scored on him.

lol now the Danny Granger is a good post defender myth is spreading like wildfire, first Suckleavy and his great "team defense" and now this

Hyperbole reigns supreme on PD. Don't act like you're above using it.

I generally think that threads like this are a colossal waste of time but if this is our new Tyler vs. McRoberts/Hill vs. Collison theme for the upcoming year... at least the quality of players we're debating has greatly improved!

In all seriousness, I trust Vogel to make the right decision on who to start and who to use to finish.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

The problem is saying those 6 nights are more important than 4 years worth of Danny doing it.

I don't think most people are saying that it's more important. The point is that all of the history might be irrelevant. Lance is 23 years old and improved dramatically in just his first season of playing. It's very likely that he will continue to get better. Danny, OTOH, played just five games last year, has battled a devastating injury, and is 30 years old. 2011 Danny is better than 2013 Lance, but that doesn't really matter in 2014. Sayin that Lance will be better is no more off base than saying that Danny will be better. No one knows for sure until we see these guys play.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

Or it could be that the Pacers don't need any one player to put up huge numbers anymore. When Granger was scoring 20+ a game, he was pretty much Option 1, 2, 3 and probably 4. Don't need to do that anymore.

If Danny can average 26pts, and Lance is a better scorer than him, Lance would have to be the best scorer on the team. Why is the best scorer, being given the 5th option?

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

They're saying he's a better scorer than Danny and using his ability to go for 20 any given night as proof of it. So Lance is the better scorer when he's a threat to go off for 20, only getting to the mark 6 times, while Danny is worse as a scorer when he puts up 20 on a nightly basis, only getting to the 20 pt mark on average for 3-4 consecutive seasons.

When 6 nights worth of 20pts and his high school scoring record is the only proof you have of how dynamic of a scorer he is, that says something.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

This Pacers team has 7 players that could score 20 + points on any given night. Who cares who can score more? I hope the players aren't worried about it because if so, this thing will go down in flames like the JO/Artest team did.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

They're saying he's a better scorer than Danny and using his ability to go for 20 any given night as proof of it. So Lance is the better scorer when he's a threat to go off for 20, only getting to the mark 6 times, while Danny is worse as a scorer when he puts up 20 on a nightly basis, only getting to the 20 pt mark on average for 3-4 consecutive seasons.

When 6 nights worth of 20pts and his high school scoring record is the only proof you have of how dynamic of a scorer he is, that says something.

All add on to this and say I'm fully aware that Danny won't be the same player, but we have no idea how far he'll drop. But I know that Lance, with his 9pts per game, isn't some profilic scorer like it's being touted.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

Danny does that when he was the focus of the defense, while Lance is an afterthought.

Taigo Splitter must be heads and shoulders better than Roy, and even Tim Duncan. Splitter shot 56%, Duncan only shot 50%, and Roy only got to 45%. Splitter will be challenging Duncan on the list of all time greats at any moment now.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

Yes, Lance shot 1% point better as the 5th option where most of his shots were wide open or on backdoor cuts where his defender got lost. Compared to Granger where he was the main target of the defense and and had to work for every shot he got. Stats without context are worthless.

I don't really care who starts and who doesn't, I see advantages too both, all I care about is people having accurate opinions of the players.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

I'm not the one that came up with that standard read the previous posts were the "unbiased" people are saying that "DG is twice the post defender"(hilarious) that Paul George is because Lebron scored on him.

lol now the Danny Granger is a good post defender myth is spreading like wildfire, first Suckleavy and his great "team defense" and now this

Danny is a fantastic post defender. You'd know that if you weren't busy arguing how facts aren't facts because you disagree with them.

Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

Read it and weep:

When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

If Danny can average 26pts, and Lance is a better scorer than him . . .

I'm not saying Lance is a better scorer. I'm saying it's possible he may become a better scorer. We don't know yet. Time will tell.

What is more likely is that Lance will become a better all around player eventually. I've watched enough of Granger's volume shooting, mediocre handles, one-dimensional court vision creation, and on and off defense to know that he and Lance will have a good bit to compete over next year. We'll see if the Lance fans are right or if those who liked Gerald Green over Lance last year are right.

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"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

Or . . . keeps Lance on the bench in favor Gerald Green? That actually happened.

Several of us here were screaming for Lance to start instead. And guess what? We were right and Vogel was "stupid" (your words, not mine).

I'm a big Vogel fan. But he does make mistakes. He's human.

I was actually calling for Lance to start a the beginning of the season. There's a big difference between searching for the right combination, after getting the curve ball that your starting SF isn't healthy enough to go, for 9 games and handcuffing your supposed best scorer for the other 73 games plus the playoffs.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

I'm not saying Lance is a better scorer. I'm saying it's possible he may become a better scorer. We don't know yet. Time will tell.

What is more likely is that Lance will become a better all around player eventually. I've watched enough of Granger's volume shooting, mediocre handles, one-dimensional court vision creation, and on and off defense to know that he and Lance will have a good bit to compete over next year. We'll see if the Lance fans are right or if those who liked Gerald Green over Lance last year are right.

I'm glad you brought up Gerald Green. Hilarious that people thought Green was better than Stephenson and would be higher in the rotation.

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

I'm not saying Lance is a better scorer. I'm saying it's possible he may become a better scorer. We don't know yet. Time will tell.

What is more likely is that Lance will become a better all around player eventually. I've watched enough of Granger's volume shooting, mediocre handles, one-dimensional court vision creation, and on and off defense to know that he and Lance will have a good bit to compete over next year. We'll see if the Lance fans are right or if those who liked Gerald Green over Lance last year are right.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

People forget that Lance carried us in game 6 vs NY. Without his clutch performance, we never advance to ECF. Lancr was also THE ONLY Pacer ready for game 7 vs Miami. When has Granger ever carried us to closing out a playoff series?

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

Re: Indy Cornrows: Granger an "Easy Choice" over Stephenson

People forget that Lance carried us in game 6 vs NY. Without his clutch performance, we never advance to ECF. Lancr was also THE ONLY Pacer ready for game 7 vs Miami. When has Granger ever carried us to closing out a playoff series?

Good post. Lance was big. However, I do want to give credit where it is due regarding Granger. I think his other top asset other than as an excellent scorer is that he has proven to be very clutch at the end of games. True, we haven't seen that as much in a couple of different playoff series, but, on the whole, he has proven time and again to be pretty darn effective as the game clock approaches zero.

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"I like our group of people," Ainge told USA Today. "I'm trying to teach them about basketball, and they're trying to teach me about analytics."