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Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by MC130

I think the Brexiteers have finally had a reality check.

Sorry I do not agree with you.
I think it is the remoaners who have been completely hoodwinked.
I have friends in France who sincerely believe that Brexit was a mistake because the EU has prevented another war.
For the EU politicians Brexit was not about high ideals and European unity.
Nothhing of the sort, for them it is about MONEY!
Withhout that £350 million who pays for two parliaments, god knows how many commissioners, officials, not to mention 700 odd MSP,s we don t need because we have 600 of own!
In any case British people voted on an immigragation and benefits issue.
What we ought to do is pull out of the single market and customs union immediately.
They will soon come running to us!
We had a common market anyway thirty odd years ago when I started passing through border customs all over Europe.
Jack Caley

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by Jack_Caley

Sorry I do not agree with you.
I think it is the remoaners who have been completely hoodwinked.
I have friends in France who sincerely believe that Brexit was a mistake because the EU has prevented another war.
For the EU politicians Brexit was not about high ideals and European unity.
Nothhing of the sort, for them it is about MONEY!
Withhout that £350 million who pays for two parliaments, god knows how many commissioners, officials, not to mention 700 odd MSP,s we don t need because we have 600 of own!
In any case British people voted on an immigragation and benefits issue.
What we ought to do is pull out of the single market and customs union immediately.
They will soon come running to us!
We had a common market anyway thirty odd years ago when I started passing through border customs all over Europe.
Jack Caley

If there is no agreement , and its more likely there will not be one with 27 countries having to agree ,then we will fall out of the single market and then the truth will be clear to everyone.

Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

If there is no agreement , and its more likely there will not be one with 27 countries having to agree ,then we will fall out of the single market and then the truth will be clear to everyone.

The other day I saw a piece in some newspaper or other that said we would lose about half a million jobs but Europe would lose a million!
All this ridiculous scaremongering, I know one thing the Caravaggis we deal with in Italy will still have our business, the French will still want our lamb, and so on.
It is as though the world is coming to an abrupt end!
Jack Caley

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by Jack_Caley

The other day I saw a piece in some newspaper or other that said we would lose about half a million jobs but Europe would lose a million!
All this ridiculous scaremongering, I know one thing the Caravaggis we deal with in Italy will still have our business, the French will still want our lamb, and so on.
It is as though the world is coming to an abrupt end!
Jack Caley

Yep no problem.....
until......
News today that The good old US of A has decided to impose a 220% import tax on any plane imported into the US of A from Bombardier in Ulster.
Try selling Caravaggio mills with a 220% import duty levied!
Much the same as a very populist policy (in the eyes of embattled French politicians) of imposing an import levy on imported lamb from the UK to France.
No matter how much you would like to do it, financially it will be impossible.

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by Gee

Yep no problem.....
until......
News today that The good old US of A has decided to impose a 220% import tax on any plane imported into the US of A from Bombardier in Ulster.
Try selling Caravaggio mills with a 220% import duty levied!
Much the same as a very populist policy (in the eyes of embattled French politicians) of imposing an import levy on imported lamb from the UK to France.
No matter how much you would like to do it, financially it will be impossible.

That is because Boeing didn't get a contract with United airlines and Bombardier (headquartered in Quebec, Canada) got a government (aka taxpayer) bailout a few months ago.

Boeing is also trying to sell Canada some used aircraft - maybe it is time for Canada to see what Russia or China have for MIGs

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

I remember a number of years ago talking to a farmer in PEI, and he told me that if there was a good crop of potatoes over the border, you just could not please the USDA as far as quality for export, even though at that time there was no bother out in the west.
You guys have a lot of natural resources there must be willing buyers other than Uncle Sam.

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by rangerover

I remember a number of years ago talking to a farmer in PEI, and he told me that if there was a good crop of potatoes over the border, you just could not please the USDA as far as quality for export, even though at that time there was no bother out in the west.
You guys have a lot of natural resources there must be willing buyers other than Uncle Sam.

little PEI grows about 1/3 of the potatoes grown in Canada. A couple of decades (or so) ago, the US tried to put a "dumping" tax on Canadian potatoes (I think it was Idaho who complained) - it was because of the PEI inspection process that the tax wasn't implemented. I am not sure about today, but at that time a government inspector would be present when a truck (or boat) was being loaded and would pull the occasional bag from the conveyor, weigh the bag then pop it open to verify the quality.

Too many "out of spec" taters, the shipment got rejected and they couldn't leave the island.

AND yes, we need to find other markets but it is similar to England - if you don't deal with the EU you are looking at going to other continents to get a market. Darned if you do and darned if you don't

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by Ironhead

little PEI grows about 1/3 of the potatoes grown in Canada. A couple of decades (or so) ago, the US tried to put a "dumping" tax on Canadian potatoes (I think it was Idaho who complained) - it was because of the PEI inspection process that the tax wasn't implemented. I am not sure about today, but at that time a government inspector would be present when a truck (or boat) was being loaded and would pull the occasional bag from the conveyor, weigh the bag then pop it open to verify the quality.

Too many "out of spec" taters, the shipment got rejected and they couldn't leave the island.

AND yes, we need to find other markets but it is similar to England - if you don't deal with the EU you are looking at going to other continents to get a market. Darned if you do and darned if you don't

It was around 14 years ago we did a houseswap near St Peters Bay when I heard this tale of woe, and yes I think Idaho was mentioned.

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

That is because Boeing didn't get a contract with United airlines and Bombardier (headquartered in Quebec, Canada) got a government (aka taxpayer) bailout a few months ago.

Boeing is also trying to sell Canada some used aircraft - maybe it is time for Canada to see what Russia or China have for MIGs

Tonight's news carried the story....somewhat dwarfed by the homage to our future glorious leader...."Kim Old Corbyn"
Apparently Boeing used a national anti dumping law to have this tariff applied.....once it works through the system it will be dropped.
Bit of a nuclear early warning shot!

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by Gee

Yep no problem.....
until......
News today that The good old US of A has decided to impose a 220% import tax on any plane imported into the US of A from Bombardier in Ulster.
Try selling Caravaggio mills with a 220% import duty levied!
Much the same as a very populist policy (in the eyes of embattled French politicians) of imposing an import levy on imported lamb from the UK to France.
No matter how much you would like to do it, financially it will be impossible.

A 220% tariff would be a problem for anyone.
However you have hit on the crux of the matter for the UK!
First of all we might go on to WTO rules if ever the Europeans would allow it, (we should soon see the Europeans running to us for a free market).
Secondly our government will never impose tariffs, it would vastly increase the cost of living here.
That 220% duty will never happen!
As regards hard line brexiteers accepting a transition period, the only reason they pretended to go along with it is that they know full well now that the alternative is a Corbyn government.
Boris made his point before her speech, now he has to go with a disastrous flow.

I really believe if it were not for the blackmail by EU fat cats trying to keep their loot, we could quite easily go back to those old days of the common market when I just had my invoices stamped at every border.
Jack Caley.
PS Boris was quite right about the £350 million, just think it would be so easy, for a start he could save £60 million a week in single farm payments!

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by skoda

The serial liar has been slapped down and corrected 3 times by the Office for National Statistics over this desperate lie.

Actually the figure is correct, because it includes all the money ostensibly paid over, but about half paid bag according to their terms, for example the single farm payment. What the conservatives haven't always wished (including my own MP), is to get rid of those payments. They may be right of course, especially in the case of such as the Duke of Westminster, but it would mean that the money was never paid over in the first place.
But can you justify to me why we should pay something like a net £150 million to support fat cats in Brussels, not to mention people like Clegg, and Mr and Mrs Kinnock?
Jack Caley

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Why would they be worried about Corbyn, it's 5 years till the next election. Unless of course, they're worried the country will be on it's knees by then...

It's not like they have to toe the line with May. She's a lame duck PM who's only been kept on so they have someone to carry the can if it all goes belly-up.

I would remind you that Mrs May respected the democratic vote of the people.
She made two mistakes out of political naïveté, one was responding to the jibe from Sturgeon that she was not an elected leader, the other was underestimating the skill of Corbyn appealing to the self pity of people in coping with the mess still left by Blair, Brown and party. Likely to be repeated by Corbyn.
We all know that politicians have no ethics, especially when it affects their political ambitions. The conservatives are just as likely to stick a knife in her back, as did Gove with Johnson.
Jack Caley

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by Jack_Caley

Actually the figure is correct, because it includes all the money ostensibly paid over, but about half paid bag according to their terms, for example the single farm payment. What the conservatives haven't always wished (including my own MP), is to get rid of those payments. They may be right of course, especially in the case of such as the Duke of Westminster, but it would mean that the money was never paid over in the first place.
But can you justify to me why we should pay something like a net £150 million to support fat cats in Brussels, not to mention people like Clegg, and Mr and Mrs Kinnock?
Jack Caley

Really . Assuming that revenue will be available ,when there will almost certainly be a run on the pound.

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by skoda

Really . Assuming that revenue will be available ,when there will almost certainly be a run on the pound.

Actually the pound is already devalued, which when you come to think of it, makes the EU attitude more and more stupid.
The more uncertainty they create , the worse will be the European position.
Take for instance BMW cars, we will not be able to buy as many cars, BMW,s only solution will be to reduce the price and hence their profit 40% of which is supposed to come from the UK market.
Take for instance Cranswicks factory near here importing 40% of their meat from Europe to make sausages. Either Cranswick will have to make less sausages, or God forbid get more pigmeat produced in this country. Maybe even back to the 800,000 sows it was before Europe stole our market with unfair trading practices.
Jack Caley

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

I would remind you that Mrs May respected the democratic vote of the people.

Resorting to a 'straw man' argument only makes your position look weaker.

Originally Posted by Jack_Caley

She made two mistakes out of political naïveté, one was responding to the jibe from Sturgeon that she was not an elected leader, the other was underestimating the skill of Corbyn appealing to the self pity of people in coping with the mess still left by Blair, Brown and party. Likely to be repeated by Corbyn.

Political naïveté? Don't be ridiculous, how long has she been in the government?
The Tories messed up through arrogance. They thought it was all about Brexit and the voters would just run to them on the back of that. There are other issues in the country that are sod all to do with Brexit and the EU but they couldn't be a£$ed to run a proper general election campaign. All they thought they had to do was keep banging on about Brexit.
They wanted to run the Scottish Conservatives campaign from London. Ruth Davidson told them to pi$$ off and ran her own campaign. The results speak for themselves.

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

Originally Posted by MC130

Resorting to a 'straw man' argument only makes your position look weaker.

Political naïveté? Don't be ridiculous, how long has she been in the government?
The Tories messed up through arrogance. They thought it was all about Brexit and the voters would just run to them on the back of that. There are other issues in the country that are sod all to do with Brexit and the EU but they couldn't be a£$ed to run a proper general election campaign. All they thought they had to do was keep banging on about Brexit.
They wanted to run the Scottish Conservatives campaign from London. Ruth Davidson told them to pi$$ off and ran her own campaign. The results speak for themselves.

I still believe she was naive, in responding to Sturgeons jibe.
Yes, I think she was thinking only of the Brexit campaign, and mistakenly thought she could INCREASE her majority.
She had not reckoned on Corbyn political dexterity, appealing to peoples self pity because of austerity, promising students fees etc etc.
Trouble is all this argue bargie is doing the country no good, and the gloom and doom merchants will be proved right.
Jack Caley

Re: Brexit, yes or no?

I know I have mentioned this before but probably timely now to repeat myself in this discussion (it's not an argument please, it's a discussion or a debate) To a large extent I think the whole Brexit issue is an age thing. Jack and I remember when the U.K. was called Great Britain. That was probably a bit pompous but we did have the last vestiges of an Empire. The latter morphed into a Commonwealth, Great Britain became the United Kingdom although even that is starting to disintegrate now.

Jack and I thought that the Common Market was basically a good idea. If nothing else the basics meant that there was a fair chance of stopping another European war, maybe even another World war. And for a few years it was good. But it has grown like Topsy. And, in truth, the whole monolith has taken over large swathes of our lives. A lot of the Governance of the EU is unelected and people like Jack and I see people whoi have jumped on the gravy train which some people are wont to do if they find an easy passage through life. In my opinion we have plenty of our own MPs who couldn't run the proverbial in a brewery. In my view the U.K. is U.K. plc. It should be administered by people with business brains, acumen, and experience. Read what James Dyson says about Brexit. And I vehemently support that we must always provide an education and health system that is free at the point of delivery and a welfare system for those who need a bit of help.

But we have lost control of our borders and to a degree our judicial system, not to mention our governence. That for me is enough to want to be freed from the clutches of the EU.

What is really worrying is that we have become a very divided society. The haves & the have nots. There are those in inner city areas who have basically nothing, and yet look at house prices. Somebody is paying them or they wouldn't be the level they are. It's what is going to happen in this country in the future that we really need to be worried about and we need to have the ability to correct the imbalance without any interference from any Heinrich, Pascal, or Antoinette.