- Turn Jordan's Pillar into healing wave. The heal AI fucks with the Bloodstone Guardians' other spells.- Get Neodex working and do hit test checks on all new meshes. (update: Neodex partially figured out, testing)- Give Priestess of the Stars an ability more analogous to Meteor Shower (an aoe with more radius). Check their respective damages.- Find out why the Disco Inferno is not disco- Add extra region cases to corners to stop dudes from running away after spells/cc etc, and add cases for ramps so minions stop going down them (particularly the right of middle).

Version Cer 02 (From Emu Cer01)

Functionality

- (Emu) Imported new/updated damage engine- (Emu) Modified damage event to reflect new system- (Emu) Modified pathing a little- Some minor changes to pathing regions in hopes to stop corner cutting. There are still some issues regarding the middle ramps and probably more fringe pathing cases, but at the moment I don't know how the pathing triggers work so I can't do much about it.- A very odd blue backlight has appeared in the map pending my terrain cleanup. I believe it originated from Pheo's spectral matter doodads. Removing the lights, restarting the editor and rebuilding the lighting had no effect in removing them. They are highly disruptive. I have opted to place some torch lights in areas highly effected by them, but I fear it will make a major mess of the units everywhere...

Divisions

- Division upgrades and timing changes occur every 160 seconds instead of every 200 seconds.- A preliminary system has been cobbled together that should reduce the timer for Division resources to be granted by 10 for every Cannon Garrison in that faction's possession.- Additional Cannon Garrisons have been placed throughout the map. Some of them are heavily guarded, some are biased to either faction. Controlling the majority of them would grant significant Division advantages over time. If you can actually kill the two dragons currently guarding the inner underworld nodes you should probably be winning anyways.- Waves now spawn at a max of 120 seconds instead of 160.- Waves spawn at an initial interval of 30 -> 20 and increment spawn time by 5 -> 2.- Critical strike is being removed from anything I find it on during my travels except for DPS-specific units (for now, I'd rather give tanks bash or something).- For preliminary revamp of divisions, I disabled both factions' air units.

Cleanup

- Opting to use Rakusu for experimental tooltip setups. - First Neodex experiment has yielded a much cleaner PvP Brazier No Smoke, which reduces particle count by over 80%, fixes most underground particles, and removes a lot of clipping issues.- Death event cleanup (there are THREE death event triggers hidden in this mess)

SOURCE

- Currently experimenting with Neodex. I overcame most import issues but not 100% confident on its support for our meshes yet.- Re-acquired mdlvis and war3modeleditor.- Optimizations and texture fixes for Warrier Man X, Draconisath Defender, and the Holy Hell Hope Sword need to be tested.

Functionality- Loladins of Legend has been updated by BilltheEmu and now functions for the current version of Warcraft 3. There may be severe bugs and undiscovered issues with the map pending the changes to the damage event system (which now uses code copypasted from CFA, which was originally based on the first LoL. Fancy that.)- The new version is called Cer and defaults to 00 for the prototype. The filename is LoladinsofLegend-Cer00.

Features- A soundtrack is being selected with unique tracks per faction and event-specific tracks. This will replace existing Wc3 mp3s and therefore be able to be enabled or disabled with Control+M.

Neutrals

- The Horusath- Servants of Mal`Ash are now known as the Horusath, spawn of the Devilwing Dragon God, Horus, from 2042 lore. Horus himself will be a megaboss later on, as will Anubis (and potentially other members of the brood). For now, though, this will set a clear goal of what to achieve with these special units.- Mal`Ash champions and their iterations have been appropriately renamed and many of them have been significantly reduced in strength.> No longer possess Soul Bind> No longer possess Mana Burn> No longer possess Crushing Wave> Base damage for Drakes (lowest level) 110 -> 50 (I figure they will spam storm more often so it should even out in overall aoe and make them less lethal for melee heroes).> Strength of Mal`Ash (divine shield) is now known as Unnerving Fortitude and lasts 3 seconds instead of 15, with a shorter cooldown and lower mana cost. Removed from many lower level drakes.> Bleeding Storm of the Star Dragon is now just known as Bleeding Storm and deals 80 -> 30 damage a tick> Claws of the Star Dragon deals 30 -> 50 damage, has way larger radius, and lasts a lot longer. > Dismember removed from lower level Horusath

Cleanup- Altered Fog- There is now a 6 second timer between the announcement of a Final Boss' arrival and their subsequent arrival (Lord Dread/Sir Lol).- The frequency and length of Isador's dialogue has been adjusted for brevity.- Howard the Junk Collector and Space Man have become confused in space-time, and now find themselves within the spawn locations of both factions rather than in the middle lane.- The regions and spawn locations have been adjusted a bit for consistency.- Many new ramps have been added across the map to allow easier entry into the Underworld via Lanes. Be wary when approaching enemy lanes via their ramps, some of them will be guarded. Each faction has a backdoor entrance to their Special Plase (whose function has yet to be determined). It's possible I'll just let you TP there, though.- Several of the dragons guarding the Underworld have been removed pending a proper Creep system.- A number of turrets have been removed from the Underworld, though probably not all of them.- The waygates ferrying between top and bottom lane have been removed. - Minor terrain brushwork- Priestess of the Stars is no longer classified as Undead/Evil. This should unfuck some healing abilities.- The Olympic Sprinter is no longer classified as Evil.

Neutral Hostile minions will be referred to as Assholes, just like 2042.

Currently, Assholes spawn every so often in a rigid timed series of triggers, and generally in mid lane where they proceed to idle until attacked. Some other spawns exist, but their timers are so insanely long, and they are so strong, that they often are never seen or fought.

I will be entirely redesigning this system from the ground up to more reflect what I originally intended.

There will be three major types of Assholes -

Camps -

Similar to camps in Dota or League, camps of Assholes will be in specific regions and will respawn x seconds after the camp is cleared. Camps are Tiered, with each camp containing a specific type or collection of types of enemies. Each tier has an associated series of levels, which advance as the game progresses, and each level contains different collections of mobs that will be randomly chosen for spawning. The higher tier camps will naturally be stronger than lower tier ones. Camps all have a small chance to spawn a World Boss instead of their camp. Some camps will be close enough to lanes to be dragged into combat against the lane minions if desired.

World Bosses

There will also be some specific boss spawn points. Particularly of note is the two large plateaus between the upper/lower and middle lanes in the corners of the middle of the map. Bosses here will advance in levels when killed. These will be the primary opponents you will desire to kill for major upgrade materials for items.

Traditionally speaking, Assholes will have strong anti-creep abilities and sustain capacity, so they'll be rather strong against your minions and summons. I've removed almost all mana burn, cc, and divine shield from the existing mobs and those abilities will continue to be exempt from their and later units' pools. However, they will still have super strong abilities, including the Rust Dragon's Rust Aura.

Inane Spawns

This brings us to the third type of Assholes - those who will spawn in random locations and hungrily wander the map searching for your hiney. These Assholes may be special mobs or just higher tiered mobs, but they'll probably be special. These are strong world bosses and will pass through lanes and the Underworld hunting for heroes.

Rewards

All camps give gold to your team when cleared and all bosses give team gold. Since they'll be strong and can only be solod by strong heroes, it makes sense to co-operate as a team and receive team benefits. Other than controlling Garrisons, controlling camps, especially those close to lanes, will hopefully be a fairly integral part of the game. It should also lead to lots of hilarious multi-way battles. As it is this can't happen since most of the neutral units eviscerate you on contact or cc you forever. I'll be fixing that.

The further from lane the more powerful camps and bosses will become. Some bosses may need special conditions to be met to be summoned, or you may be able to instigate random summons through some means. e.g., a low kill game may spawn more inane events, while high kill streaks may cause camps to go berserk. There's a lot of ways I could build statistics out of player interactions and turn them into ways of making the game more silly overall.

Ultimately, the items rewarded from boss kills will still be acquirable by gold, so it won't be game deciding if you can't control the Underworld very well. However, some Garrisons will be deep in the Underworld, so leaving it to your enemies means they'll have a Division advantage over you.

Fires an arrow towards the cursor that collides with the first enemy target hit. It then attaches to that unit. Subsequent hits from Lila or allied champions will cause the arrow to explode and consume a charge. The explosion will deal X+int damage. Every X int, the arrow has another charge. Levels increase range, speed, and base damage.

- W - Dash

The caster powerslides towards the target location. She has 25/35/45/55% evasion while powersliding. Max Distance of powerslide based on agi.

- E - Twinfold Arrow

The caster has a 20/30/40/50% chance to attack twice in quick succession when performing a basic attack. The secondary attack constitutes as a standard attack and applies any orb effects or other % chances EXCEPT for Twinfold Arrow itself.

- R - Power Shot

The caster charges for 5 seconds and then fires a high-speed arrow straight into a target at high range. This functions very similarly to the existing Power Shot except the stun will be much shorter. The shot loses damage the further out of range it is. AGI increases damage.

- X - Skyfall

Fires an arrow at a target location that forms into an airborn sentry. After 2 seconds the sentry will crash down in a rain of arrows, dealing aoe damage based on the caster's int. The number of arrows spawned by the sentry is based on the caster's agility, allowing you to specialize for damage over time or burst.

A bouncing attack similar to Sir Lol's, but loses strength with every bounce. It bounces off of heroes as well as walls, and travels a max distance based on a % of INT determined by the spell's level. The amount of bounces it can have and its damage are determined by agi.

Ricky's hero will be ported from 2042. He is a highly specialized hero that does not have any direct attack. He'll have to have some other way of making money. He is support centric, and has touch-based heals and defensive abilities.

It makes sense that the god of evil would summon a cat to be his champion in times of peril.

The Cat Wizard has above average speed, but is more frail than most casters. In return he has a plethora of strong utilitarian abilities and a fairly decent summoning ability.

- Q - Catsplosion

Summons a Cat. The cat will explode when killed, like a sapper, dealing damage proportional to the caster's int when it does so. The caster's agi will determined how many additional cats may be summoned by the cat's destruction. These also explode, but don't replicate. The cats have a melee attack that scales with level only. Levels increase scaling values. The cats have timed life, and do not explode when they unsummon.

- W - Graviton Conflux

Conjures a globe in a spot that collapses over the course of two seconds. Once collapsed, it acts as a force and sucks things into it, causing them to ignore collision and condense. The units can still attack and perform actions within the Conflux, but at a reduced rate (20,30,40,50% reduction per level). When the Conflux ends, whose determination is determined by int, the caster's agi is used as a multiplier for the force used to propel the contents outwards. Damage is dealt to the units on the conflux's destruction based on duration. Base duration of 1 second. The collapse period is reduced by int to a minimum of 1 second. The radius of the suction is also scaled on INT.

- E - Cat Shot

Hurls a cat as a linetrace skillshot. The cat collides with the first unit hit and attachs to it and then explodes, hurling out cat-shaped shrapnel. The shrapnel expands in a nova and also fucks as colliding projectiles. The projectiles deal base damage + damage based on agi. The amount of projectiles and their travel range is determined by int.

- R - Catcall

Summons a cat that descends from the heavens into a target region. When the cat hits the ground it becomes a stationary Mirror Image that mimic's the caster's spells for the next 5 seconds. The spells that are mimic'd are performed 1 second later. They attempt to target the same target the caster targetted, but if they exceed a certain range they either target a random nearby enemy or do nothing. INT reduces spawn period.

- X - Inertia

Sends out a wave of force from behind the caster to the direction of the target location. Moves enemies based on their STR. Less str = moved further. INT increases length of wave of force, AGI increases force energy. Creeps are moved an amount based on their max health, or armor, or something else. Has no effect on spell immune enemies.

This Legendary Hero was in 2042 and will be ported to the aos. A white Naga with a polearm who has exceptional martial skill. He is Bloodstone aligned so he'll probably have Bloodstone tech built into his kit and therefore make exceptional use of int if he wants to bolster his ability over his melee dps.

Melee assassin from 2042. Although her character was ported to Apex her 2042 design can still live in this project. She will thrive on melee combat and multistrikes in some manner.

Divisions

Currently, I have no idea how the Divisions are set up in LoL. I could pick apart the triggers, but as I plan to rework the Divisions anyways, I'll just leave them alone for the moment. Here I'll document what the revised Divisions will do. I need to figure out how the super unit synergies will work, as generally it is expected teams to build their divisions around their heroes. e.g. if they plan to do a lot of jungling they'll want to be able to turtle it out, but if their heroes are based on pushing they may want more supportive or damage oriented roles depending on their composition.

The new Divisions will be based off the factions from 2042. Horray for lore!

Access to the Human's Highland Infantry divisions. Fighting for years against the Orcs, these are your Primary Physical DPS. Keep in mind they are all rather frail, and summon less units than other divisions, but their sustained DPS is second to none in the Loladin Divisions.

Theorycrafting for major systems ideas in the later future of the project's production. These are merely ideas - feel free to share your own or share your opinions on them.

"Endgame"

The average Loladins of Legend game is expected to last anywhere from 1-2 hours. After the one-hour mark it is expected that you have at least one Legendary unit being summoned and another one being worked on (a third division well under way in terms of upgrades). If a team has been dominating the game it may already be ending or over from their control of the Garrisons gradually snowballing their division upgrades.

Currently, the only game-ending mechanic in place is when a faction's final boss is summoned, Champions of Light or Darkness will spawn and basically murder them. This seems like an extremely lazy copout, so once I noticed this was happening I stepped back and thought, "wow, what can we do that's a bit better of a solution than this?"

This lead me to thinking, "Well, what chance, exactly, does a faction have to win once their boss is summoned? The most they can do is just turtle out a slow death. It's impossible to win at that point."

That got me thinking.

Currently, items are not really a thing. There is one expensive item that hands you some stats and such and that was just a placeholder for people to spend their money on. Once I add items and "forging" for them, or see what Mucky does, the item system itself will probably take a while to actually implement. But it will help set the ground for what would be viewed as endgame goals - builds.

Currently, my main idea is that heroes will be able to build in two major arcs (though probably more if players are creative). Heroes will have at least two attributes that they can build for which will formulate how their abilities work. For Lila Serende's Skyfall, for example, which will be rather spammable, you can spec for sustained damage or burst damage. Evidently, in an endgame situation, with a full inventory you can have both attributes somewhat worked for. But there'll also be AA builds she'll be effective for due to double shot. So on so forth. What this means is that the current power level of max level heroes in the map which, other than some blatantly broken ones, is not really comparable to what they'll be like once completed. If King Mosh's knockbacks and damage all scaled off of STR and AGI, he could, for example, enormously disrupt creep waves or really fuck with team fights way more than he currently does.

So, it seems a bit of a copout to end a game for a team who may have very strong fighting strength just because their first boss died and their base is going down. While it certainly will allude to an overall losing game, it's a snowball that is very hard to stop in any of these dota clones once it starts - other than those who have no creep strength whatsoever, like dota and league themselves. However, speaking from our wc3 perspective, almost no manner exists in most of the maps we play to stop the snowball. Battleships and TGS both are highly prone to snowballing for their respective reasons, although the addition of the barracks in TGS alleviates it a small amount.

Indeed, one only need look at Castlefight to see the extreme effects of tug of war snowballing. Lose one building and it's GG at almost any point in the game.

Once Divisions get rebuilt and there are less units, the CC for defenses will be that much more potent (especially Silence). However, the problems remain - lose a barracks, lose the game.

On this thought, I have been considering what kind of alternate options I could give to teams to control gameflow beyond just trying to keep the waves pushed. Controlling out of lane garrisons is a step in the right direction - having objectives out of lanes opens up more values to look for in heroes and map control. But it's a small thing that, for now, I expect to be mostly limited to individuals backdooring and ganking each other as individuals when opportunity allows. All of it, again, seems inconsequential when the first barracks falls.

What if I allow you to rebuild buildings like TGS? I think in 50% of games this will only needlessly prolong the game as the team who dropped the first building is very likely to simply drop it again. Of course, with the back doors to the bases, a sufficiently strong team could, in theory, sneak in and defeat the first boss.

I don't know if I really put a lot of thought into the "second phase" of the map during its first bout so many years ago, but I'm thinking now.

The first gut reflex I had to seeing Lord Dread get nibbled down by holy puppies in a chain of stutter-stepping Loladin conga lines was, "What the fuck are you going to do besides try to drag it out? Shouldn't you be able to ask your God (Doom himself) for help?"

That got me thinking. What would be necessary to draw the spirit of Doom to you? Artifacts that are the key to the end of all things, duh.

I thought more. "Let's say we give Evil the opportunity to summon Champions or something if they can hold back all three lanes and control their original Barracks locations long enough to make special buildings that summon megademons OR super buff Lord Dread so he can attack the Loladin base."

Now I had an idea. This seemed more fitting of a final stand than just waiting for the end game screen to pop up. After all, even if Evil's heroes were ultra strong, they couldn't win in a circumstance where Dread was active. This seems retarded. Dread is one of the most powerful and strategic-minded characters in LoL lore, why would he know show up if Mars was already lost? Why would Doom tell him to wait it out?

I am not sure what I was thinking when I had the two-stage boss fights originally. I'm sure my plan was, "I'll figure it out once the other mechanics are done." But I think a goal should be determined BEFORE we reach that stage so we know what it is, exactly, we're working towards. How would you attempt to initiate your comeback mechanic? Items you scrounge from neutrals, you find on the map, you take from the enemy faction, or is it merely something that is just automatically initiated and you try to involve yourself in? I think having it being largely player-centric is important, but can it be done through items? Probably not - a full inventory and trying to manage more shit on top of it always consumes most of my time in Map Tong Hop, and it's not a particularly enjoyable experience.

I'll have to think long and hard and girthy about what the final minutes of the map should look like, but the current system is just dumb as hell and boring. To really make the Divisions and the other portions of the map really fit together I think more thought will have to be put into the major mechanics that determine who wins and who loses. The Garrison functions I added are a good step, though.

Concept 1 -

I believe my original idea was that Sir Lol and Lord Dread would suicide each other in middle lane after X of one being active. It would be very hard to balance this fight out, and it still seems a hopeless fight for the losing faction.

Concept 2 -

The ability for either faction to summon their Deity (Ascended Sir Lol or Doom) at any point in the game, or only post-summoning, is an interesting idea, but how? Gathering materials? One of my old ideas was a highly snowbally kill count kind of thing, which seems like it'd only further harm the losing faction anyways (hence the decision to leave those off-lane locations to potentially be used for item forging or something).

Concept 3 -

I thought of either letting heroes buy builders (TGS) or having a construction-specific hero (meh) for each faction that can build some stuff like defenses, artillery, and other special structures. Not sure how I feel about this, although being able to construct defenses and stuff around off-lane locations has its own merits and certainly seems like it could add some interesting dynamic if I manage to make neutral spawns and other stuff valuable enough to warrant the effort from the players. This doesn't really influence the current endgame solutions much, though (unless constructing buildings allows one to invest into an endgame goal, such as one of the previously mentioned concepts).

wait. this isn't some ancient thread from way back when? this is new? LoL lives?

also, as far as endgame suggestions-

concept 1 could be cool, similar to the way blizzard dota has the angel/demon battle, except instead of them just being objectives to fight over it would be cool if you could push with them, similar to the way ashran(lolwtfisthat) or some missions in Campaign have kerrigan or whoever rallying their own army and you need to coordinate your attack with the AI. neither example does the concept right imo, but i like the idea of having a kickass general that you need to support on a final heroic charge to end the game. blood for the blood god \m/

2) again, this makes me think of ashran, the way you can collect garbage to summon your factions megaboss, however if you want it to not be a snowbally thing you could definitely make more use of the none-lane (jungle?) space, have a little mini dungeon or something that the team needs to clear to unlock some summoning shrine and if they hang out on the shrine they summon armageddon. You could maybe use a system similar to twisted treeline (lolololwtf is THAT) where they have altars that lock. maybe you have 3, if a faction can zerg all 3 they get a dude? if youre looking at this as a potential anti-snowball mechanic, it shouldnt be based off kills, or lanes, so i'm thinking sidequests? just a thought

3) there was another dota clone out there that had a builder hero, that shit was hilarious. Personally I like the idea of having a passive type, indirect buff type class (such as a trader in battleboats) but the downside to that is that, especially in a long game, is that the team that has it will 90% be unstoppable by the end vs a team that doesn't have one, so rather than a builder who has permanent impact on the map, have more timed/area sensitive mechanics (think heimerdonger or loliaoi). Rebuilding shit is all well and good, but if they have spawners and overall upgrades then it'll be pretty much mandatory for both teams to have one in any given game if either team wants one (similar to the trader problem in attackships). Maybe have them set up limited defenses or more "creative" buildings than basic spawners/defenses, a la castlefight where you've got a hentai tentacle building, a buff that does x, a buff that does y, a building that does random shit, a building that freezes random units, etc. I'm not saying use any of those specifically, as in castelfight everything is mapwide and wouldn't make sense in a AoS type map, but those kinds of buildings that do fun things. I'm not creative though so i can't suggest anything new. Still figuring out how to balance a hero thats not designed to fight is tricky

in any case i can't wait to see this again, definitely let me know when you folks are gonna test

Yeah I was definitely thinking of some kind of quest-like thing. Currently the map is in the perfectly capable if not lethargic hands of an emu while I am working on other stuff, so it likely won't be playable for a while yet. But yes, it's considered active again.

Construction-type heroes or off lane supports are definitely one of those things you need to be super careful about. League is far too scared to make one, so I only have Abathur to go off of. He works because of his exp soaking functions which is definitely not a thing in wc3. But his balance is definitely very weird and his only real construction behavior is mines (which are super strong in the right circumstances).

What I'm actually planning to do is make some videos that lay out the groundwork for a bunch of design talk.

smota. thats what it was. i know we played it a few times back in the day, but that may just be drunken memories of testing zillamaps with emu and shadow, but IIRC this has a builder that I remember being hilarious, but my memory is terrible

At the moment I can guarantee that I plan to make most abilities function like skillshots. There will be extremely few point and click abilities except for the cases where it makes the most sense (such as allied buffs). I also plan to have extremely few stuns, especially direct activation or one-click stuns like storm bolt. I'm basically looking at league as examples of what not to do for ability design. The 3-hit % damage over the top CC shit is stupid.

I plan to scale a lot of mobility and utility stuff off of stats in different ways, so a hero with mobility options like dashes or whatnot will be able to scale towards damage/support/whatever OR high mobility, at least until full build, but they won't be able to depend on super strong kit options right off the bat. Basically, I don't want the same issues league has with tanks and such that can itemize to be unkillable while still doing insane amounts of damage and having very strong mobility/CC options just because. Though I also plan to have very little in the way of passive mitigation for most heroes.

I am also thinking of steering away from minion bounty for primary gold generation. I don't know if I want gold tied to garrisons or something else, but given how stupid last hitting in wc3's latency is, and how creep divisions could potentially be gamed to make last hitting harder, I would rather give the majority of gold through other means (hero kills is an obvious one but I am thinking map objectives).

tbh last hitting and lag is my biggest sticking point with wc3, I don't remember it being this bad

Is there a way to grant local bounty? ex, kill a minion all allies in local [small] area get gold? this would promote helping clear the wave quickly and working with your friendlies instead of cursing the cannon minion for ruining your cs. This would be a boon to supports especially, so they dont have to worry about gold generation so long as they are near somewhere that blood is being spilled.

or maybe each an assist type system? if you deal damage to something or you buff someone who deals damage to something and it dies within x seconds give gold? again, trying to mitigate the need to actually land the killing blow but still trying to encourage these walnuts to do something

Might be as way to trigger it but it would probably be a rather distant future kind of thing.

Wc3's always been that bad. It's just more noticeable now because you have league and blizzard dota to compare.

Neutral creeps will give team-wide gold and I will probably have most gold generated by some kind of control point system similar to CFA. I am just not sure if I want those control points to be the garrisons which currently determine division upgrade rates as well (seems like it may be too strong to hold 1 extra garrison and get best of both worlds).

It's worth nothing I don't plan to have league-styled roles in this. I don't plan to have hard supports whose sole purpose is to hold someone else's hand, nor do I want pure nuke-based assassins or passive soaking tanks.