Here's hoping the Sox reward his long and distinguished service to the organization with an Oney Guillen day at the Cell!

ViPeRx007

09-14-2008, 11:00 PM

Retired? From what exactly?

LoveYourSuit

09-14-2008, 11:06 PM

I think the Oney Guillen story has the making of the sequel to Field Of Dreams part II.

He will have to cross the baseline to perform a crucial language translation and in the process giving up his only shot to a big league AB.

CHISOXFAN13

09-14-2008, 11:32 PM

Here's hoping the Sox reward his long and distinguished service to the organization with an Oney Guillen day at the Cell!

Statue?

doublem23

09-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Dammit, I kind of liked having someone in the organization that was an inferior baseball player than me... Sort of kept a small glimmer of the dream alive. :cool:

At least I still have Kenny Williams, Jr.

CashMan

09-14-2008, 11:55 PM

At least I still have Kenny Williams, Jr.

And Juan Uribe.

California Sox

09-15-2008, 12:20 AM

I don't get the Oney Guillen hatred. He was like a 36th rounder who was a minor league utility player. I don't see the harm. He seems like a good kid. Oh well. His brother could be a first rounder in a couple of years.

oeo

09-15-2008, 12:51 AM

I don't get the Oney Guillen hatred. He was like a 36th rounder who was a minor league utility player. I don't see the harm. He seems like a good kid. Oh well. His brother could be a first rounder in a couple of years.

It's all because he's Ozzie's kid. Oney got to play professional baseball because of his dad and some people around here feel like you need to 'earn' it. But hey, it happens everywhere in baseball. Hell, it happens everywhere, period. Knowing someone can be the best thing going for you sometimes.

Chilli Palmer

09-15-2008, 12:54 AM

When is Kenny's kid gonna retire, talk about a waste of a high pick. Nepotism FTL.

doublem23

09-15-2008, 08:17 AM

And Juan Uribe.

I'm completely full of myself, but I'll admit that I can't hit .250/.296/.401 in the Majors.

alohafri

09-15-2008, 08:48 AM

I don't get the Oney Guillen hatred. He was like a 36th rounder who was a minor league utility player. I don't see the harm. He seems like a good kid. Oh well. His brother could be a first rounder in a couple of years.

It's not an Oney Guillen hatred. But how many guys "retire" from minor league baseball on a weekly basis who never get their name on the scoreboard of the parent club? Being the boss's son has its privileges.

jabrch

09-15-2008, 09:28 AM

When is Kenny's kid gonna retire, talk about a waste of a high pick. Nepotism FTL.

You really aren't willing to wait a bit to see what he can do when he is healthy and has a few years in the minors?

jabrch

09-15-2008, 09:36 AM

It's not an Oney Guillen hatred. But how many guys "retire" from minor league baseball on a weekly basis who never get their name on the scoreboard of the parent club? Being the boss's son has its privileges.

That's true in every walk of life. And it isn't just true of being the bosses son. Being a favorite has its priveleges.

And here's the sad truth. Now people can piss and moan all they want - but that doesn't change things. When you get into a position of power, it enables you to do things for your family and friends that you otherwise might not be able to do for them.

Here's truth #3. It is far to early to conclude that KWJR is the same story. He was projected to go in the 8th round regardless. He is not some talentless stiff who was taken in the back end because of his dad.

I know people need to hate over everything - and most of those people suck. So let them hate. I'd much rather spend my energy celebrating a team that is 1.5 games up with a few weeks left to go, and has a very bright looking present/future.

Except a completely wasted draft pick that could have been used on a real prospect or a real baseball player with a much better probability to make something of himself.

Here's truth #3. It is far to early to conclude that KWJR is the same story. He was projected to go in the 8th round regardless. He is not some talentless stiff who was taken in the back end because of his dad.

But he was a talentless stiff that didn't start on his high school team and had an awful college career. Again, he was a wasted draft pick that could have been used on another prospect with a much better probability to make something of himself.

oeo

09-15-2008, 12:07 PM

Except a completely wasted draft pick that could have been used on a real prospect or a real baseball player with a much better probability to make something of himself.

But he was a talentless stiff that didn't start on his high school team and had an awful college career. Again, he was a wasted draft pick that could have been used on another prospect with a much better probability to make something of himself.

This topic is old. We didn't lose anything by drafting him, he didn't hurt any other players' development. The chances that we draft a 'real' prospect that late are very slim.

You can keep whining about it if it makes you feel better, though. :whiner:

And you can keep ignoring the fact that there is a much higher probability we find a diamond in the rough (albiet under 5%) than there was of Oney making anything of himself (0.00000000000001%).

You've gone back to when Kenny Rogers was drafted and found about 20 baseball players.

Bra-Vo.

FedEx227

09-15-2008, 12:49 PM

Wow doublem, you've found another one of my threads and found a way to bash it. You should really find something else to do with your time.

No, I found an ESPN list of players, most of those are very good players, Hall of Famers, etc. I'm sure if you went team-by-team and found starters you'd have even more. And yes Don Mattingly, Ken Griffey Sr. and Orel Hershieser were drafted after Kenny Rogers. doublem classic: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm not saying the Sox missed out on a lock of a prospect, I'm saying why waste a draft pick on a 3-month family rental when you have the VERY, VERY slim chance of getting a decent ballplayer out of the pick.

The positives of actually taking the draft seriously outweigh any positives we received by drafting Oney. No?

CashMan

09-15-2008, 01:04 PM

You've gone back to when Kenny Rogers was drafted and found about 20 baseball players.

Bra-Vo.

I would say before you go bashing him, do research. He took time and did some.

alohafri

09-15-2008, 01:05 PM

Holy cow! I started this tounge-in-cheek thread to point out the ridiculousness of the Sox putting a message on the scoreboard about a minor leaguer who never even sniffed the AA level. I love how these things take on a life of their own! :smile:

FedEx227

09-15-2008, 01:31 PM

I would say before you go bashing him, do research. He took time and did some.

I really didn't, haha... someone at ESPN did a list of the best late-round picks. But there are plenty of MLB starters that were taken in later rounds. It would take me forever to go through every single team, but the point is you don't have to get a hall-of-famer in the late rounds, you can just get an everyday reliever, utility man, etc.

When deciding between 2-5% and 0.000000000000001% why not take 2-5%?

sox1970

09-15-2008, 01:59 PM

Holy cow! I started this tounge-in-cheek thread to point out the ridiculousness of the Sox putting a message on the scoreboard about a minor leaguer who never even sniffed the AA level. I love how these things take on a life of their own! :smile:

The message on the board was tongue-in-cheek as well. Joking that he retired with a .333 average at AAA and retired, and was signed Good Luck, White Sox organization and Freddy Garcia. (something like that).

Optipessimism

09-15-2008, 03:40 PM

That's true in every walk of life. And it isn't just true of being the bosses son. Being a favorite has its priveleges.

And here's the sad truth. Now people can piss and moan all they want - but that doesn't change things. When you get into a position of power, it enables you to do things for your family and friends that you otherwise might not be able to do for them.

Here's truth #3. It is far to early to conclude that KWJR is the same story. He was projected to go in the 8th round regardless. He is not some talentless stiff who was taken in the back end because of his dad.

I know people need to hate over everything - and most of those people suck. So let them hate. I'd much rather spend my energy celebrating a team that is 1.5 games up with a few weeks left to go, and has a very bright looking present/future.
I agree with this, and would add that if there is anything to bitch about in this year's draft - and there actually isn't much considering this year the Sox did what a Major League organization is supposed to do in the draft - then the bitching should start and end with the selection of Brent Morel in the third round while Tim Melville was available. During the actual draft it sucked to learn that the Sox picked KW Jr. while passing on Jordan Danks through yet another round, but since we got Jordan and he's signed that doesn't matter anymore. KW Jr. is an actual prospect that was on the boards of other teams a bit later than where he was taken. Sure he was a reach, but that doesn't exactly matter right now.

As far as Oney Guillen, who ****ing cares? You don't look for superstars in the 35th round of the draft, and as far as irrelevant lists of superstars who have come from that spot or later, players that are passed up by 30 different organizations over 35 times each are obviously in such dire need of improvement that their signings mean basically nothing. Each team has a list of players they are interested in taking and once all those players are off the board then the only thing left to do is fill minor league rosters with catch and throw guys. If you need a back-up IF who is only going to amass 143 AB's over two years combined, why not take the manager's son instead of Joe Schmoe from Buttcrack University who sucks just as bad? I mean come on. This whole argument is ridiculous.

DumpJerry

09-15-2008, 03:52 PM

Holy cow! I started this tounge-in-cheek thread to point out the ridiculousness of the Sox putting a message on the scoreboard about a minor leaguer who never even sniffed the AA level. I love how these things take on a life of their own! :smile:

The message on the board was tongue-in-cheek as well. Joking that he retired with a .333 average at AAA and retired, and was signed Good Luck, White Sox organization and Freddy Garcia. (something like that).
It was co-signed by his cousin Freddy Garcia. I thought it was a nice touch.

By the way, he did retire from Charlotte with a .333 BA (http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=33559). He was one for three in his only game with The Knights. It was double and he scored.

Optipessimism

09-15-2008, 03:53 PM

Wow doublem, you've found another one of my threads and found a way to bash it. You should really find something else to do with your time.

No, I found an ESPN list of players, most of those are very good players, Hall of Famers, etc. I'm sure if you went team-by-team and found starters you'd have even more. And yes Don Mattingly, Ken Griffey Sr. and Orel Hershieser were drafted after Kenny Rogers. doublem classic: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm not saying the Sox missed out on a lock of a prospect, I'm saying why waste a draft pick on a 3-month family rental when you have the VERY, VERY slim chance of getting a decent ballplayer out of the pick.

The positives of actually taking the draft seriously outweigh any positives we received by drafting Oney. No?
The Sox didn't waste anything. The guys they wanted and thought they could sign were taken. Then the guys that they wanted but didn't think they could sign were taken. Then the guys that they didn't really care about but thought maybe, if they sign, have some small chance of doing something were taken. And then everyone they wanted or might have wanted was taken, so they started filling out rosters and took Oney as a result.

Most teams don't even use the whole draft. With international free agency they are much more concerned with finding talent that way as opposed to long shots in the 30th-50th rounds of the draft who, because of their status, do not even play anyway. It doesn't matter if the Sox took the second coming of Albert Pujols in the 35th round, because the second coming of Albert Pujols would have to earn his playing time on the bench of Great Falls, stick with it, dedicate himself, hope he didn't get cut, and then try to impress the coaching staff during minor league camp in order to beat out a player who has the ceiling of a minor league journeyman utility player.

jabrch

09-15-2008, 04:36 PM

This topic is old. We didn't lose anything by drafting him, he didn't hurt any other players' development. The chances that we draft a 'real' prospect that late are very slim.

You can keep whining about it if it makes you feel better, though. :whiner:

And because we stopped drafting before the end of the draft, we were out of prospects on our list of any value. We could have continued to draft anyone we wanted. But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good rant. We took 10 guys after Oney - none who have any potential for us.

You really aren't willing to wait a bit to see what he can do when he is healthy and has a few years in the minors?

No.

jabrch

09-15-2008, 11:29 PM

No.

Your choice...

EuroSox35

09-16-2008, 12:21 AM

It was shown on the scoreboard tonight that Oney Guillen retired.

LMAO. I'm surprised he wasn't a Sep callup. Must have stressed a fingernail

alohafri

09-16-2008, 08:42 AM

The message on the board was tongue-in-cheek as well. Joking that he retired with a .333 average at AAA and retired, and was signed Good Luck, White Sox organization and Freddy Garcia. (something like that).

Thanks for leaving that tidbit out, Deep Throat! :cool:

sox1970

09-16-2008, 08:51 AM

Thanks for leaving that tidbit out, Deep Throat! :cool:

I didn't know you were going to run to your computer with the info. :lol:

alohafri

09-16-2008, 10:08 AM

I didn't know you were going to run to your computer with the info. :lol:

You know me...always trying to scoop everyone! :redface:

2906

09-16-2008, 11:10 AM

One of the papers said Oney will be attending scouting school in Arizona beginning the end of this month. I presume at some point he'll be part of the White Sox scouting staff.

FedEx227

09-16-2008, 12:38 PM

One of the papers said Oney will be attending scouting school in Arizona beginning the end of this month. I presume at some point he'll be part of the White Sox scouting staff.

He can continue our tradition of absolutely dreadful drafting and development. :D: YAY!!

Lundind1

09-16-2008, 01:28 PM

He can continue our tradition of absolutely dreadful drafting and development. :D: YAY!!

Nice, very nice.

jabrch

09-16-2008, 02:29 PM

One of the papers said Oney will be attending scouting school in Arizona beginning the end of this month. I presume at some point he'll be part of the White Sox scouting staff.

Couldn't hurt to see another set of eyes down in Venezuela as a Jr. scout learning the trade - if he was serious about learning how to scout.

doublem23

09-16-2008, 04:10 PM

Wow doublem, you've found another one of my threads and found a way to bash it. You should really find something else to do with your time.

:scratch:

I bash your threads?

:rolling:

Ooooooooo-kay. :thumbsup:

Steelrod

09-16-2008, 04:51 PM

Couldn't hurt to see another set of eyes down in Venezuela as a Jr. scout learning the trade - if he was serious about learning how to scout.
...or Rush Street !

DumpJerry

09-16-2008, 07:02 PM

Wow doublem, you've found another one of my threads and found a way to bash it. You should really find something else to do with your time.

:scratch:

I bash your threads?

:rolling:

Ooooooooo-kay. :thumbsup:
It's not even "his" thread. Someone else started it. However, Doub, good work sleuthing and "finding" another one of those hidden FedEx threads....

veeter

09-16-2008, 09:35 PM

And Juan Uribe.Juan's making this comment look pretty stupid.

FedEx227

09-16-2008, 10:01 PM

It's not even "his" thread. Someone else started it. However, Doub, good work sleuthing and "finding" another one of those hidden FedEx threads....

Sorry I meant post.

Didn't know it was that big of a deal. Shoot me now.

doublem23

09-16-2008, 10:42 PM

Didn't know it was that big of a deal. Shoot me now.

If you want. :D:

NLaloosh

09-17-2008, 09:54 AM

My sources are telling me that he'll be with the big league club next year.

He's going to be the translator for Harold Baines facial expressions and bodily noises.

Optipessimism

09-17-2008, 11:50 AM

My sources are telling me that he'll be with the big league club next year.

He's going to be the translator for Harold Baines facial expressions and bodily noises.
So when Harold farts all Oney has to do is point to the bullpen. Sounds like an easy gig.

Tragg

09-17-2008, 06:10 PM

There was no reason to draft Williams Jr 3 rounds too early. If he's interested in playing ball and not just his $500K bonus, then it could still work out okay.

But nepotism is nepotism - I see no reason to excuse it.

UofCSoxFan

09-18-2008, 01:10 AM

Here's truth #3. It is far to early to conclude that KWJR is the same story. He was projected to go in the 8th round regardless. He is not some talentless stiff who was taken in the back end because of his dad.

I think people that lump KWJr and Oney together are completely missing that point. KWJr may or may not pan out but he was good enough to be recruited by Arizona State and then transfer to Wichita State...two of the best baseball programs in the country...I doubt KWSr had much say (if any) on that. If the Sox wouldn't have taken him, another team would have in the next 2 or 3 rounds at the latest. I also believe he was drafted out of high school, but could be wrong on that.

Oney played a North Park, a doormat in the CCIW, one of the tougher conferences in DIII. He put up mediocre numbers there and woudn't have been drafted by anyone. He played 2 years of professional baseball, however, and while didn't embarass himself, did nothing to justify his roster spot for that time frame.

They really don't compare at all.

UofCSoxFan

09-18-2008, 01:16 AM

There was no reason to draft Williams Jr 3 rounds too early. If he's interested in playing ball and not just his $500K bonus, then it could still work out okay.

But nepotism is nepotism - I see no reason to excuse it.

Perhaps the reason the Sox "reached for KWJr" is that they were familiar with him. What I mean is, teams tend to like players they see a lot of for whatever reason (they also make an effort to see the players they like so it works both ways). This is why you'll see certain teams take an inoridnate amount of local kids. It's only natural, even if its on a subcocious level.

In the case of KWJr., he MAY have been drafted where he was b/c of nepotism but he may also have been drafted b/c the Sox really liked him and didn't want a team to take him before their next pick (keep in mind any team that liked KWJr. had to believe he was on the Sox radar so he may require a reach on their end).

With Oney, I'm 100% certain the pick was b/c of nepotism. I really think they are two different scenarios.

jabrch

09-18-2008, 03:48 AM

I think people that lump KWJr and Oney together are completely missing that point. KWJr may or may not pan out but he was good enough to be recruited by Arizona State and then transfer to Wichita State...two of the best baseball programs in the country...I doubt KWSr had much say (if any) on that. If the Sox wouldn't have taken him, another team would have in the next 2 or 3 rounds at the latest. I also believe he was drafted out of high school, but could be wrong on that.

Oney played a North Park, a doormat in the CCIW, one of the tougher conferences in DIII. He put up mediocre numbers there and woudn't have been drafted by anyone. He played 2 years of professional baseball, however, and while didn't embarass himself, did nothing to justify his roster spot for that time frame.