Friday, September 7, 2012

Okay, Now THIS Rocks!

Reader Jackie sent in a sign recently spotted in Texas:

What a nice break from the "No Firearms Allowed" signs seen all too frequently - even in Texas. In a previous job, we had partners in Texas that I visited on a quarterly basis, and I remember the first time I went to their facility seeing the big "No Firearms" signs on the front entrance. It puzzled me - I mean, I'd had my MA permit for a few years, along with a NH non-resident permit, and I'd never seen a sign banning firearms from the premises.

I still don't understand the thinking behind the "No Guns Allowed" signs. The only people who are stopped by them are the good people, the law abiding people who respect signs no matter how stupid and short-sighted they are. They're not going to stop the criminals, nor the deranged; they're only going to make certain that someone intent on causing harm will run into no armed resistance.

I like the "permit holders on premises" sign a lot better - it calls out "You are on notice" to the crooks...

7 comments:

The one good thing about no guns signs in Texas is that there is a legally prescribed sign with specific wording and minimum size and placement. Should a building not be posted properly then a CHL holder is free to ignore such signs. I had a employer that rented offices in a building that had a sign that consisted entirely of a gun in a circle with a slash through it. It was not posted at every entrance either, only the ones most likely to be entered by visitors and not tenants. I did not understand the reasoning behind it, but then I didn't really care because anyone who had a CHL should have known the law sufficiently to know that they could legally ignore the signs.

@Armed Texan, Unfortunately for us here in NC, there's no prescription on the wording or what images are or are not on the signs. HOWEVER, what is nice is that the law here is the same regarding the requirement that all entrances be posted.

It is for that reason that lawyers have advised malls to not bother posting at all, since they can't demand that all the stores with external entrances also post, nor can they insist that those stores post at the exit of the store into the mall.

I get really annoyed with gun owners who 'correct' those who improperly post. I prefer carrying openly, but concealed is concealed and if their sign is not legally enforceable, I want to be able to ignore it and remain armed, rather than have them fix it.

Of course, the case can be made that I should refuse to do business with them, as well.

At least with the passage of HB650 last year, it is no longer treated as a criminal act. Now, if we are made, then we can be told to leave and if we refuse, we can be charged with trespassing. No criminal charges for simply carrying somewhere that's posted.

@JayG, In the case of MA, it's an odd situation, but I think I get it. Compared to most states, almost no one has an LTC, so no one thinks about it. They don't even consider that someone might be carrying. So posting never comes to mind.

Don't know about NH. I guess it's just more widely accepted, so you don't see many signs banning it. Like you, I don't think I've ever seen a no guns sign in MA or NH.

What you'll find, generally, in all "may issue" states is that the people that actually *have* the permits were, historically, the "connected" folks. Friends of the mayor, retired cops, etc. - these are the kinds of people that would normally get permits in states like MA that don't have "shall issue"

Well, if you're one of the mayor's big donors, you don't want to be told you can't bring your heater somewhere, right?

Plus, yeah, when you're talking about a state where only 6% of the population even *has* a permit, there's little point in worrying about where that 6% can carry.

As for NH, I *did* see a "no firearms allowed" sign in the past few years. It was on the large Simon-owned mall, posted on a tiny notice outside the main entrance.

In NH, signs are non-binding. If you were to open carry into the mall they can ask you to leave, and if you decline then it's trespassing, but there's no specific gun charge.

FWIW, Simon Malls Corporate policy is to post the no weapons/firearms at major entrances(not all of them). From a "friend" that used to work at a Simon property as "security" (small 's', and emphasis on the "), the security staff doesn't give a damn, and at most would call the popo and hide in the area farthest away from someone should they be found to be carrying. Not to mention that in MA, signs are not legally binding.

Also, all the entrances must be marked. I stated at a hotel in Houston, and the revolving door wasn't labeled. That was the door I used for 3 days and on the last day, I finally noticed the other doors.

When we were back home in Kansas last fall, I saw several signs banning firearms from the premises. Funny, I haven't seen any of those around here even when I've been in MA. I too thought it very strange.

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