In response to WhoDat's Blanco vs. Benson

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Scotty,
You have every right to complain about whatever area of the team you wish. But Tom Benson has a right to do whatever he wishes with HIS team.
You think Benson is ripping the State of La. off? Stop ...

You have every right to complain about whatever area of the team you wish. But Tom Benson has a right to do whatever he wishes with HIS team.

You think Benson is ripping the State of La. off? Stop following the Saints and make Benson suffer. Stand up and be counted. Make a stand. Don't watch the games, don't buy any Saints' merchandice, don't buy any tickets to the game. Show ol' Tom you can hit him where it hurts.

Demand a better performance and only then will you support Benson's efforts. Show 'em Scotty.

Just be careful that Benson doesn't ride ride out of New Orleans with the Saints.

I take very little comfort in your "beleifs" that he won't do anything. Selling the team looks like a pretty good option to me. What makes you so certain Benson won't get pissed off and sell?

I take very little comfort in your belief that selling is a good option.

Stop following the Saints and make Benson suffer. Stand up and be counted. Make a stand. Don't watch the games, don't buy any Saints' merchandice, don't buy any tickets to the game. Show ol' Tom you can hit him where it hurts.

Why? Why not watch the games and root for the team and still criticize Benson's actions. I'm not trying to run the team out of town. I just want what I think is a fair deal. (Of course, it doesn't really matter what I think. I understand that, but what's the point of a forum if we don't speak our minds.)

But the threats don't bother me. If Benson doesn't like things, then let him sell or move. I'll get over it. I don't want him to, but I'm not going to kiss his heinie because I'm scared that he will.

I take very little comfort in your belief that selling is a good option.

Stop following the Saints and make Benson suffer. Stand up and be counted. Make a stand. Don't watch the games, don't buy any Saints' merchandice, don't buy any tickets to the game. Show ol' Tom you can hit him where it hurts.

Why? Why not watch the games and root for the team and still criticize Benson's actions. I'm not trying to run the team out of town. I just want what I think is a fair deal. (Of course, it doesn't really matter what I think. I understand that, but what's the point of a forum if we don't speak our minds.)

But the threats don't bother me. If Benson doesn't like things, then let him sell or move. I'll get over it. I don't want him to, but I'm not going to kiss his heinie because I'm scared that he will.

Oh, I thought you were serious about Benson ripping off the State of Louisiana. If I thought that someone was ripping Louiaiana off, I don't think I would support and do business with that company anymore.

If GM was ripping the State off, I'd be buying a Ford. If the New Orleans Saints was holding my state hostage .. I don't think I could support that team in good faith. Or if I did ... I would come across as hypicritical.

Now I'm a hypocrite. This from the same guy that went ballistic earlier today when he thought, incorrectly, that someone was calling him out for setting a trap. That's almost - dare I say - hypocritical.

I consider myself more conflicted than hypocritical.

Is it hypocritical to state that you believe that the FO has not done enough to make the team into a winner, but still hope like heck they win each and every game?

In the same way I don't think it is hypocritical of me to have disdain for the way Benson is negotiating with the state while still hoping the team wins and buying the team's merchandise.

I wouldn't buy a car from his dealership. This guy that has renegotiated deals from the start is no good. I do appreciate that he came to the rescue to purchase the saints to keep them in the state, but to make the state pay for the team to be there,and to make the state pay for a new stadium doesn't make sense. He is just using a sales pitch that ,"someone else is looking at the car", if you are interested you should buy now. He is smart by trying to make the fans put political pressure on Blanco to work out the deal, unfortunatly the fans are all primarily around the new orleans area and not the whole state. I'd be willing to bet that the dallas fans in north louisianna outnumber the saints fans in southern louisianna.

I'll take your word that you're "conflicted" on this issue. Although you sounded pretty sure of your feelings earlier in the conversation.

It sounded like you were a man of principle. I was merely making an observation based on your comments in which you basically said Tom Benson is ripping the State off.

It was just very hard for me to understand how you complain so loudly about Tom Benson's business ethics but support his company (Saints) to a fault.

Maybe you really don't believe Benson is ripping anyone off at all? Maybe you just think he could hanlde the situation better?

I think, Scotty, if you really thought Benson were a thief that you wouldn't support the team.

Forgive me for making reference to hypocrisy. That would be saying one thing with your words but doing something totally different with your actions.

My bad.

I am not conflicted in my belief that Benson has used extortion tactics to get the current deal and continues to use them to enforce it. You seem to have bought in fully to his propaganda threats of moving and that's ok. I happen to think they are idle threats, but that doesn't mean he wont move in the future. I am conflicted because I dislike what he is doing as owne of the team, yet I still plan to watch the games, which means support the team.

In the use of extortion tactics to secure his deal, I do think he has somewhat "ripped off" the state. Not only because of the threats but also because he claims to need it to be competitive, but Forbes suggests he is in the top 10 easily. That seems a bit off to me. However, I have said in the past that the state should continue to make the payments because the deal was made in a procedurally correct manner.

That doesn't mean that I shouldn't watch the team. Maybe that is hypocritical. Maybe not. I don't think it is any different that criticizing the FO for things they do and still watching the games and buying the merchandise. I don't think it's different than questioning play calling or other coaching decisions and still watching the games and hoping for a win.

If criticizing Benson on this issue makes me hypocritical when I support the team, then so be it. I will be in comfort that these other issues make other fans equally hypocritical and, therefore, not alone.

Winning and losing have nothing to do with it? Scotty is exactly right. Yes VooDoo, the FANS are the ones actually buying the crappy product that the Saints are selling. And it's so crappy, if you listen to Tom Benson, that the fans don't buy it enough for him to make money.

So who is paying Benson so that he can keep up with the other NFL Jones? Who is giving him the money he needs to be able to afford the types of yachts that other NFL owners can buy? The State of Louisiana. Is it OK then for the State of Louisiana to expect certain performance levels?

What's funny to me is that all these "red bloods" who take Benson's side and say that "a deal is a deal" and that Benson owes his business partner (the State of LA) no duty of disclosure or good faith, are also the people who generally oppose social programs like welfare.

Note to the Pro-Benson crowd: that is what Tom Benson is getting - corporate welfare. Entergy is a much bigger corporation than the Saints. They employ far more people and pump much more money into the state than the Saints. Do you hear them crying about the poor LA economy? Are they asking the state for handouts b/c other places have better economies? They might get tax breaks, true, but so does Benson... plus all of the State subsidies.

Anybody here really believe that a person on welfare should be able to get the money forever? Think that they "deserve" it simply b/c they asked for it? Think that they have a responsibility to try to better themselves, get a job, and get off of welfare? That's the entire idea of the system, right? Help out while people are down and help them get back on their feet, right? It's not supposed to be free money forever.

Well that is exactly what Tom Benson is asking for - and he's not even willing to prove that he needs or deserve the assistance. If a guy in a $700 suit walked into a welfare office and asked for a hand-out think he would get it? Think he could keep it? Think you would be suggesting that he deserves to keep it just b/c he asked for it???

It is true that Blanco approached Benson about reworking the deal. She approached him to suggest that the State lower its payment to the Saints, and IN RETURN, work out a stadium deal (which is EXACTLY what Tom Benson was asking for when he got this deal). She is trying to help the State's position, yes, but she has a responsibility as Governor to do just that. It's not like she's asking Benson to just give money back? She's asking him to take a lower direct payment in return for hundreds of millions of dollars in Dome renovations, additional direct payments, and incentives and income opportunities worth nearly $737 million.

Yeah, Benson is really a victim here. He's lying. His lawer is lying. He hasn't done a thing to prove he needs money - he's just stated that he does. Sure. I need money too, where's my subsidy?

Listen folks - there are only three possible reasons that I can think of that Tom Benson won't take the deal offered by the Governor.

1) It requires him to stay in New Orleans for 20 years without the out clause that the current deal has. Thus, he couldn't threaten to move the team again in 3 or 4 years to try to milk the State out of even more money (especially after being exposed this time around).

2) Some of the incentives in the agreement that would escalate the value to the Saints from somewhere in the $400 million range to somewhere in the $700 million range are based in part on how the team performs (on the field). If the Saints put winning/playoff teams on the field, their opportunity to earn incentives increases. Tom Benson has never been required to put a good product on the field before in order to milk the State for all its worth - why start now?

3) He's greedy. Deny this if you want, but how else can you justify this: Tom Benson wanted a new or rennovated stadium in 2000. He threatened to move the team and got the current deal from Mike Foster. Blanco has approached the Saints to modify the current deal. She's asking to lower the payments to $9 million annually (about 2/3 of what he's getting this year). So Tom gets to keep 2/3 of the current direct payments, which were given to him originally in lieu of a stadium deal. But the Governor is willing to let him keep his hand out, AND give him a rennovated stadium, AND MORE incentives than the team already has so that it can make even more money. Peter Finney at the TP called it the best deal in the league. Tom won't take it. You tell me why not, other than greed, inability to play his normal relocation hand every few years, and the realization that he would have to make his team a winner to really get paid.