As all of the regular posters know I've always been very interested in the players heights, wingspans ect. but I wanted to know out of all the tests and measurements they do which do you think are the most imporant?

For example at the time of the 1999 draft there were rumors about Elton Brand being 6'5" or 6'6" but not only did he measure a legit 6'8" but also had a 7'5" wingspan which allows him to play bigger than his 6'8" height.

Here are some old evalutions of Brand from around the 1998 draft

Quote:

Initial concerns about his height were erased when he measured just over 6-8 without his sneakers. His arm span is huge; he's got a vertical reach of over nine feet, and his horizontal span is 7-51/2. At 260 pounds, he can play defense with the best of them, but he's got soft hands, too.

BULLS: Chicago may have moved a step closer to taking Elton Brand with the No. 1 pick of the draft after Brand measured 6-foot-8 1/4 in bare feet at the Chicago draft camp last week. With a 7-foot-5 horizontal reach and a vertical reach of more than 9 feet, Brand ranked with the 7-footers.

See what really interested me about Brand was despite playing so well in college if he measures an inch or 2 shorter he probably falls from number 1 to number 10. Brand however has been one of the best big men in the NBA since he entered the NBA averaging over 20 points, 10 rebounds and 2 assists but my question is how much does that extra inch or 2 really help Brand or is it his wingspan that allows him to play so big? Is it Brand's strong frame?

While Brand got picked number 1 Ben Wallace wasn't as fortunate 3 years earlier after he measured 6'7". He went undrafted but eventually won 4 defensive player of the year awards, led the NBA in blocks and rebounds plus he won a championship. Many people however believe just being 6'7" is why teams didn't draft him considering he is a PF/C.

Quote:

Ever wonder how teams missed Ben Wallace? I did. From what I can tell it was fairly simple. Wallace measured at 6'7 in pre-draft workouts. Teams looked at that and thought, "That's small forward size?" When you look at Wallace as a small forward you see a good defender who might lack quickness and definitely lacks the ability to shoot from outside of 8 feet. Of course in reality Wallace didn't have small forward size. People don't block shots or shoot with the top of their head, they do it with their hands, usually while jumping. Wallace's long arms and great leaping ability allowed him to play like he's 6'10, not ideal size for a center, but definitely reasonable. Four Defensive Player of the Year awards later teams have realized that it is more important how tall someone plays than how tall they measure.

Is it his wingspan, athletisism and strength that allows him to block shots, defend seven footers? If so then why weren't any scouts smart enough to look at that. Sometimes there are players who are just freaks of nature in every area and leave no doubts like Shaq.

Quote:

The reason Shaq's so hard on basketball hardware is that he's not your average college center. At 7-foot-1 and nearly 300 pounds, ... Shaq already has a reach of 9-5 and an armspan of 7-7. He's a good leaper, too, and can touch a point on the backboard almost two-and-a-half feet above the rim.

Quote:

To no one's surprise, the Orlando Magic took the 7-foot-1, 303-pound O'Neal with the first pick of tonight's NBA draft.

Obviously Shaq measuring 7'1" barefoot, with the 36 inch vertical and long 7'7" wingspan erased any doubt he'd be the number 1 pick but because many people test their vertical lower or come out much shorter than expected say Shaq measures 6'11" with a 30 inch vertical instead. Is he still the number 1 pick or do teams worry that the college dominance won't translate into NBA dominance?

Even a legend like Red Auerbach questioned Alonzo Mourning's ability to play center in the NBA.

Quote:

But can Mourning, who weighs 249 pounds and measures 6-9-1/2, hold up as an NBA center? Auerbach isn`t positive of that yet.

Of course Mourning ended up having a hall of fame career aswell.

I also wanted to talk about those athletisism tests and in particular Kevin Durant's results from last years camp.

Quote:

According to the Times, Durant was the only prospect at camp who failed to bench press 185 pounds, and finished behind Oden in some key drills, including the vertical leap, agility drill and three-quarter court sprint.

Oden jumped 34 inches in the vertical leap while Durant jumped 33½ inches, completed the agility drill in 11.67 seconds to Durant's 12.33 seconds, and finished the three-quarter court sprint in 3.27 seconds, ahead of Durant's 3.45 seconds, according to the report.

Durant, however, had a 7-4¾ wingspan, which ranked second among all prospects and measured a half-inch wider than Oden's wingspan.

Durant's strength had proved to be a problem earlier in the year when he had trouble finishing with contact but he has appeared far more athletic than those tests would suggest. His athletisism seems above average for a swingman and you will see him throw down very athletic dunks on a regular basis and the tests were so much lower than expected that many scouts feel he didn't do the tests properly. A lot of people however said he was going to be a bust based on those vertical and agility tests plus him not benching 185 pounds. Durant however has been a 20 point scorer this year and by far the favorite to win rookie of the year. Durant isn't the only athletic player to test lower than expected either.

Monta Ellis didn't test as well as Oden in the 3/4 court sprint or the lane agility test which seems crazy when you think about it. Ellis also had a max vert of 31 inches at the combine and Ike Diogu did better than him in the lane agility test.

Im with you bro, how the heck does Roy get a higher Vertical then Iggy. That's totally wrong, some of this info just isn't right, and for Greg Oden to have a 34 inch Vertical is astonishing. I still don't beleive that he has a 34 inch Vert.

Im with you bro, how the heck does Roy get a higher Vertical then Iggy. That's totally wrong, some of this info just isn't right, and for Greg Oden to have a 34 inch Vertical is astonishing. I still don't beleive that he has a 34 inch Vert.

Iggy probably just did the tests wrong. Shaq had a 35 inch vertical in his prime and he measured 2 inches taller and a rookie Shaq weighed 46 pounds more than a rookie Greg Oden at the pre-draft camps so Oden could have a 34 inch vert. Iggy's max vert has to be atleast 40 inches.

aigudala is a good example of a 1 foot jumper as roy is a good example of a 2 foot jumper - drJ/david thompson jamariomoon/dwight howard josh smith/vince carter

when you allow the running start and jumping off 1 foot good jumpers get crazy numbers- high40's and 50's

Thanks for in the information. BTW Vince had a 43" max vert and 36" standing vert at the 98' pre-draft camp. His draft stock went way up after the workouts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainOwlClub

i think love will go back to ucla come back cut up and be a top 3 pick next year

That would be a great idea for Love. I think big men should always stay 2-3 years in college but especially Love because he doesn't have great height or athletisism so all the footwork and moves he can learn to get his shot off the better. He already has a great basketball IQ but with another year or 2 of college he could become one of the smartest players in the NBA.

My concern about Love is his weight for his age because he seems like he could become a 300 pound player which wouldn't be good for a player his size who isn't that athletic especially with his back problems. If he works hard on conditioning he could be a great player in the NBA though.

Kevin Love will definitely be scrutinized in pre-draft workouts. Scouts will take a key interest in his arm length measurement (more important than wingspan) and body fat percentage.

As for the Ben Wallace thing.....

Wallace went undrafted not because of his height but because he has/had not a single reliably skill to count on at the NBA level. His entire game then (and now) is based around his athleticism and effort. Players like that never get drafted when they are 6'7" PF/C hybrids.

Kevin Love will definitely be scrutinized in pre-draft workouts. Scouts will take a key interest in his arm length measurement (more important than wingspan) and body fat percentage.

It's funny because I think regardless what scouts think of his skills a big part of if he gets drafted in the lottery will be how he measures in height/length/weight and body fat%. Some team could really steal him if he drops out of the lottery but I think whenever a player already has questions about their weight and they are undersized for the position they play and not very athletic there is a legit cause for concern.

As for the Ben Wallace thing.....

Quote:

Wallace went undrafted not because of his height but because he has/had not a single reliably skill to count on at the NBA level. His entire game then (and now) is based around his athleticism and effort. Players like that never get drafted when they are 6'7" PF/C hybrids.

Yeah but it seems like those types of players usually make great additions to NBA teams for example Chuck Hayes and Jason Maxiell who are both closer to 6'5" actually have become very valuable players.

i think love will go back to ucla come back cut up and be a top 3 pick next year

but if they win the championship this year it would be smart for him to leave now. dont get me wrong, im always pulling for duke, but ucla has a decent chance of winning this year despite Hansbrough and the heels. say ucla does win, what would he have to gain from coming back for another year? what could he possibly loose? you dont want to become another Bill Walker by your own hand...

but if they win the championship this year it would be smart for him to leave now. dont get me wrong, im always pulling for duke, but ucla has a decent chance of winning this year despite Hansbrough and the heels. say ucla does win, what would he have to gain from coming back for another year? what could he possibly loose? you dont want to become another Bill Walker by your own hand...

Even though his stock would be better I just hope he stays another year gets in better shape and develops his skills even more.