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2 Weeks Amsterdam, Belgium, Germany, Salzburg

Hi, there are 2 of us in our mid 20s who are planning on a 14 full days trip to the above places in mid April. We will not be driving any leg of the journey (intending to take trains), and will be flying in Amsterdam, flying out Munich. We are interested in a mix of cities/towns/nature.

Will appreciate comments on anything else we should not miss (given our itinerary), and especially the logistics - i.e. whether it's worth getting any rail passes, which train tickets should we buy in advance etc.

We might be able to afford an extra day - in which case, appreciate comments on where to slot in the 15th day.

Day 1: Amsterdam (Rijksmuseum, Vondelpark, Albert Cuyp Market, Zaanse Schans)
Day 2: Amsterdam (Anne Frank House, "nine little streets", floating flower market, canal cruise)
Day 3: Amsterdam (Keukenhof)
Day 4: Train to Bruges (sightseeing in city centre)
Day 5: Train to Ghent (sightseeing in city centre), and to Brussels (stay the night)
Day 6: Train to Frankfurt. Side trip to Heidelberg (by train)
Day 7: Frankfurt. Day trip to Rhine Valley (Train to Mainz to St Goar to Rudesheim back to Frankfurt main station)
Day 8: Take the Romantic Road Coach that departs from Frankfurt, to Wurzburg and to Rothenburg ob der Tauber (stay the night)
Day 9: Continue on coach to Munich (stop at Dinkelsbuhl along the way). Night in Munich.
Day 10: Day tour to Neuschwanstein Castle. Night in Munich.
Day 11: Train to Salzburg (Salzburg Old Town, Mirabell Palace, Salzburg Cathedral, Hellbrunn Castle, Salzburg Fortress). Night in Salzburg.
Day 12: Day trip to Berchtesgaden (Bus 840), Lake Königssee. Night in Salzburg.
Day 13: Day trip to Hallstatt (Bus 150 to Bad Ischl, train from Bad Ischl to Hallstatt railway station, ferry across the lake): salt mine, boat ride. Night in Salzburg.
Day 14: Train back to Munich. Sightseeing in Munich (Marienplatz, Victuals Market, English Garden).

Specifically on the Romantic Road portion, grateful for any comments on alternative modes of transport which may be more feasible / economically efficient.

Day 6: Train to Frankfurt. Side trip to Heidelberg (by train)
Day 7: Frankfurt. Day trip to Rhine Valley (Train to Mainz to St Goar to Rudesheim back to Frankfurt main station)
Day 8: Take the Romantic Road Coach that departs from Frankfurt, to Wurzburg and to Rothenburg ob der Tauber (stay the night)

You'll be spending 6 hours + on the train on Day 6 if you overnight in Frankfurt. You are visiting Heidelberg for several hours that day, I guess. But you are staying in Frankfurt and not allowing any time for Frankfurt?? And then you're heading back north to the Middle Rhine Valley?

If Frankfurt is not a destination, then I suggest you just take the train from Brussels to a Middle Rhine Valley destination on Day 6. Koblenz (Rhine train hub) is less than 3.5 hours from Brussels. Instead of visiting Heidelberg castle (perhaps your reason for the trip to H'berg) you can take a tour of Marksburg Castle in Braubach (only 10 minutes from Koblenz.) This castle is "virtually unchanged from medieval times" as the website says and represents the only never-destroyed castle tour option.

Heidelberg's castle is actually nothing like a castle anymore as a result of the rebuilding that has gone on there. In fact, Germans aren't sure what to call the current mess and refer to it as a palace (Schloß.)

Anyway, on Day 6 after Braubach, you take the train back to Koblenz (10 minutes) fetch your bags (which you left in a Koblenz station locker) and continue to some cool Rhine base town a little further south on your intended tour route (Rüdesheim? St. Goar? Oberwesel? Bacharach?)

On Day 7 you can do your tour of the Rhine towns and that p.m. return to your base town. There's a lot to do in this area, more than a day's worth, including Rheinfels Castle (ruins and museum) in St. Goar, a river cruise, the Rüdesheim and Aßmannshausen chairlifts, wine tasting, scenic hikes, and more:

On Day 8 take the train to Würzburg and Rothenburg on your own. If you were to take the RR bus from Frankfurt, you would NOT have enough time to see anything in Würzburg and only enough time to RUN through the Residenz palace and the very attractive Hofkirche (chapel.)

On Day 9 you board the RR bus (not a trip I recommend as there are other ways to see this part of Bavaria but the point is you could continue from there as scheduled.)

Have you looked at the actual time in transit between all of the places you want to go each day?

I fear that unless you're beginning your days at 7 am, rushing around all day grabbing quick meals on the run, and sightseeing well into the evening (if things are still open then) you will just run out of time on at least several of these days.

You might consider looking at:

Bahn.de to see the actual train schedule

Check out the Michelin green guides to have some idea of how long it actually takes to see things

I fear you will end up with a very frustrating, exhausting and expensive blur rather than an enjoyable vacation

Also you need to confirm which places are available i April (mid April is ery late for the best show of flowers)

This two-week itinerary is dominated by various "modes of transport." Just look at the number of times the word "train" is mentioned. You're spending way too much time traveling from place to place, trying to touch too many bases.

Grateful for all the comments. We are 25, so I suppose we will qualify for youth discounts for rail tickets. Thanks for all the helpful links for transport around the different regions.

I have indeed encountered most difficulty planning the Germany part of the trip, especially the part linking Belgium to Munich. Must-visits would be the Rhine Valley, Rothenburg ob der Tauber, and Neuschwanstein Castle.

Thanks to Fussgaenger for the very helpful comments. Frankfurt is not a must-visit, but thought that as a central hub it would be easier to travel to places, and the Romantic Road Coach departs from there. Not sure how easy it would be to travel to Rothenburg and to Munich without taking the coach. I suppose we can then add the extra day to the Rhine Valley region following your suggestions.

"I suppose we can then add the extra day to the Rhine Valley region following your suggestions."

My suggestion eliminates Heidelberg, a just-okay place IMO and a lengthy detour - and replaces it with a quicky-visit in the Rhine Valley (a UNESCO World Heritage site)-http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1066

You can use the extra day as you please.

"Not sure how easy it would be to travel to Rothenburg and to Munich without taking the coach."

It's very easy by train. The train won't follow the RR route but the RR route isn't so very scenic anyway and if you check that bus schedule you will see that the time you get in the RR towns is virtually NONE, maybe enough to find a restroom and buy a post card.

If you see both Würzburg and Rothenburg, that's enough of the RR given the time you have anyway, IMO.

The fastest way from Rothenburg to Munich takes you there via Nuremberg in about 2.5 hours vs. 5+ hours on the plodding RR bus. So you could spend 3 hours in Nuremberg if you like and still get to Munich by around the same time. Nuremberg is a real city but it has a really nice old town zone and some really fine pubs in addition to some important sights:

"I suppose on Day 6 we could then go straight from Brussels to Rüdesheim? And take a rest from the long journey. Then sightsee around the area on Day 7 as suggested. the Ringticket looks good."

Rüdesheim is fine if a bit over-touristed. It's about 1 hour by direct train from Koblenz. I prefer St. Goar (about 25 min. from Koblenz) or Boppard (about 15 m. from Koblenz) on the opposite river bank but if the Ring tour interests you it may be more convenient to stay in Rüdesheim. You can take the train from any of these places to Würzburg easily enough. I've stayed in Osterspai (near Marksburg,) Bingen, and Bacharach as well, and if you don't find the digs you like in your preferred town, well, don't worry, one of these other places will work just fine too.

"(so I guess we will be fine to skip the Marksburg Castle)."

NO, NOT IMO. Heidelberg, Hellbrunn, and Neuschwanstein... none of them are genuine castles. N'stein is a late 19th-century fake, a palatial residence, not a medieval castle anymore than Cinderella's castle in Disneyland (which is only slightly younger than N'stein!) You should not ride the train right past the real thing when it's right there for the taking.

You can easily take a train Salzburg to Puttnang-A to hook up with trains to Hallstatt - at least one way - the bus does go thru the wondrous Lake District however but probably takes longer than going all by train so on the return take the train with your pass if you end up getting one and having simplifies everything so so much.

Have taken into account all comments and we decided to omit Belgium in its entirety, and allocate more time to the Rhine area; hopefully that will be more feasible.

Days 1 - 3 (Amsterdam)

Day 4: Train to Cologne (sightseeing in city centre, night in Cologne)
Day 5: Train to Koblenz (leave luggage in lockers), to Braubach to visit Marksburg Castle, train from Koblenz to Rudesheim (stay the night)
Day 6: Sightseeing around Ruesheim ("Romantic Tour" ticket:cable car, chairlift to Assmannshausen, castle Rheinstein)
Day 7: Cruise from Rudesheim to St. Goar, then train to Oberwesel, and then to Bacharach. Train back to Bingen, then ferry back to Rudesheim (night in Rudesheim)

If we decide to omit taking the RR coach and take the train instead (then we might have to skip Dinkelsbuhl):

Day 8: Train to Wurzburg (leave luggage in lockers and sightsee) and to Rothenburg ob der Tauber (stay the night)
Day 9: Train to Munich. Night in Munich.
Day 10: Day tour to Neuschwanstein Castle. Night in Munich.

On transportation, just to confirm, the Eurail pass does not cover transport WITHIN cities? I.e. transport within Amsterdam, within Munich.

It does appear that point-to-point tickets will be cheaper, especially since we have omitted Belgium from our itinerary. The 11 Days Eurail pass for youths is around €365 for 3 countries.

Have tried calculating the point-to-point, but not all fares are available online (e.g. Rudesheim to Frankfurt). Below are the fares per person on a 2 youths travelling together basis. Roughly costs €150.

However, I chanced upon the German Rail Pass "Springtime Special 2016" – 7 flexi days: €176.00. Which I suppose will include travels WITHIN cities?

In light of our itinerary, wondering if it's worthwhile / more convenient to get the German Rail Pass, and get point-to-point tickets for Amsterdam to Cologne + 2 X Bayern Tickets for the Salzburg leg.

I do not know your dates but I just tried this and pulled up a fare of €58 for two on April 16.

Like all saver fares, any high-speed trains must be used as according to the schedule you choose at the time of purchase. The journeys between A'dam and Koblenz are high-speed trains; from Koblenz to Braubach to Rüdesheim you are on local trains. On these trains you do NOT have to follow the schedule. So you can spend all the time you like during your stopover in Braubach and leave for Rüdesheim when you please on any local train.

That's €48 for two. You can save €20 by using a Bayern Ticket instead (€28/2.) And the Bayern ticket allows you to use subway, tram and bus transport within Munich that same day as well, for more savings.

"Bayern Ticket – for Munich to Salzburg €14 X 2 (Days 11 & 14)."

That's €56 total. You can save €4 by using the Guten Tag ticket on the Meridian trains between Munich and Salburg - €26/2/day.

If you get lucky and find a €58 saver fare for A'dam - Rüdesheim, you'll save about €70+ total with these tips.

The special price rail pass will not provide transportation within Munich or other cities. The Bayern ticket does.

Yes the German Railpass is a better deal because it is cheaper per day and also can be used to go to Prague, Salzburg and Verona without additional cost and it can indeed be used in cities on S-Bahns which are very useful in cities like Munich - of course you have to activate the pass for a day to do that so would only do if you are using a day on day trips or to get to the city.

But the efficacy of a pass is often whether you want unfettered access to trains - to just show up at stations and hop any train - not being restricted to slower and IME less comfy regional trains.

Do the maths and if at all close go for the pass and IME first class is well worth the extra costs for many reasons.

Very grateful to Fuss for giving such to-the-point and helpful comments; will definitely source for the saver tickets. And the Bayern Ticket at €28 does seem to work wonders - will keep that in mind.

Based on the above I think we are more or less convinced that it will be more worthwhile in our case not to get any rail passes.

On a separate note, we might swap a day / add an additional day to do a Munich to Zugspitze day trip. In that case the train ride from Munich to Garmisch is €23 for 2 (saver fare); but I suppose the Bayern Ticket works as well (for €5 more we can travel within Munich itself)?

I have chanced upon the Meinfernbus Flixbus though - is that a reliable bus service? It does seem to match train prices / may even be cheaper for a point-to-point direct transport (e.g. Munich central bus station to Salzburg central station one way for 2 pax at €18). However, appears that the downside is that the travel duration is generally longer than train rides...

The price of €23 that you found at the DB website for Munich-Garmisch is not a point-to-point "saver fare" on high-speed trains. This is actually a regional day pass that is good for unlimited travel on one day - so for a DAY TRIP, Munich-Garmisch-Munich will cost just €23 for two on a "Regio-Ticket Werdenfels." Here is a map of the area it covers:

We have settled our accommodations and would like to purchase all necessary train tickets in advance (e.g. saver fares) all from DB Bahn; however, understand that it is non-refundable and we have to stick to the schedule for high-speed trains, so wanted to confirm the following (costs for 2):

3. Rudesheim to Rothenburg (3 hr 39 mins stopover at Würzburg to sightsee, arrive at Rothenburg at 4pm) - €48 (Question: Is the Bayern Ticket available for this route? Will save €20)

- Rothenburg to Munich, and round-trip Munich to Salzburg (don't need to purchase in advance, get the Bayern Ticket from the train station)

Would also like to confirm the understanding that we have to purchase the Bayern Ticket on the spot, and won't be able to reserve designated timeslots in advance. But I suppose the routes above from Rudesheim onwards hardly sell out (if at all)?

Rudesheim is not in Bavaria so not part of the Bavarian Ticket, which can be bought in any train station I believe in Germany. You could also take the Romantic Road bus from Wurzburg to Rudesheim.

So many trains the rarely sell out and since seat reservations are not required you can usually get on a train even if all seats are full and at the next station when someone leaves sit down - or at the worst have to go first class where there are nearly always empty seats. I would not worry about that. You can easily make seat reservations as you go along at stations if you see things are mobbed more than you thought they would be.

That's a good fare. I take it you're on the EC to Koblenz and proceed from there on the VIA. Please note that while you must use the EC train scheduled for Cologne-Koblenz, you do NOT need to use the scheduled regional train for Koblenz-Rüdesheim - you can use ANY VIA train(s) that day on that route. If you want to stop over in Braubach for Marksburg or a look around (the TI office will hold bags) or have lunch in Koblenz or whatever, that's fine.

"3. Rudesheim to Rothenburg (3 hr 39 mins stopover at Würzburg to sightsee, arrive at Rothenburg at 4pm) - €48 (Question: Is the Bayern Ticket available for this route? Will save €20)"

No, no Bayern Ticket... I take it that to reach Rothenburg you are booking a VIA - ICE (Frankfurt-Würzburg) - RB - RB sequence of trains. Again you will have to ride the ICE train as scheduled but the others are flexible. If you are done earlier or later than your stopover stipulates, it doesn't matter - just take any RB trains at any time you like that day between Würzburg and Rothenburg.

The Bayern Ticket is sold on the spot with no possibility of reservations and no reference at all to available seating. It is theoretically possible that you might board a train and have to stand for a while.

The Bayern ticketn for Rothenburg-Munich and Munich-Salzburg means a slower trip than you'd have with a saver fare. You can check prices and travel times to see whether it's worth it or not. To find travel times on the regional trains only (which you use with the Bayern Ticket,) remember to specify "only local transport" under "means of transport" at the DB itinerary page

You do not HAVE to buy reservations for the saver fare journey either... the only seat reservations possible anyway for Rüdesheim-Rothenburg would be for the one Frankfurt-Würzburg ICE train (which is only about 1 hour of your roughly 4-hour journey.) You don't get reservations on the VIA or RB trains.

Note that instead of the Bayern Ticket (€28) you can use a "Guten Tag Ticket" (€25/2) on any of the M (Meridian) trains between Munich and Salzburg. Same rules of use apply.

Many thanks to PalenQ and especially appreciative to Fuss for providing such detailed and helpful comments. It is our first visit to Germany and am grateful for all the help rendered - which I am certain has made the logistical aspect of our trip much more manageable.

Will proceed to purchase the relevant train tickets, and will bear in mind the tips given above re train schedules.