Having failed to convince a Florida judge that Bully is a public nuisance, controversial attorney Jack Thompson has a new tactic in what seems to be a never-ending crusade against the game.

Thompson's latest approach is that the game's boy-kissing scenes are essentially porn, thus making Bully illegal to sell to minors. Although Thompson does not use the P-word, the statute he cites would generally relate to such material.

"It turns out that the school violence simulation game Bully also contains homosexual activity between the game’s hero, Jimmy Hopkins, and other male students."

"It is my legal opinion that the sale of this game to minors, which is presently occurring at your stores in Florida, violates Florida’s 'Sexual Material Harmful to Minors Statute,' Florida Statute 847.102. Each such sale to a minor constitutes a separate felony."

"Such sales are occurring to children of all ages because of the game’s wholly inappropriate “Teen” rating, as opposed to the 'Mature' rating it deserves..."

GP offers a couple of points here:

First, the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said that pornography is hard to define, "but I know it when I see it." We agree, and we're definitely not seeing it with Bully's silly boy-kissing scenes.

Next, the statute Thompson is referring to is 847.012, and this is what it says (GP has taken the liberty if adding "no" where Bully does not meet the statutory requirement):

"It is unlawful for any person knowingly to sell, rent, or loan for monetary consideration to a minor:

(a) Any picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture film, videocassette, or similar visual representation or image of a person or portion of the human body which depicts nudity (NO) or sexual conduct (NO), sexual excitement (NO), sexual battery (NO), bestiality (NO), or sadomasochistic abuse (NO) and which is harmful to minors, or

(b) Any book, pamphlet, magazine, printed matter however reproduced, or sound recording which contains any matter defined in s. 847.001, explicit and detailed verbal descriptions or narrative accounts of sexual excitement (NO), or sexual conduct (NO) and which is harmful to minors.

In case you are wondering, kissing doesn't qualify as "sexual conduct" under Florida law. For that definition, click here.

Comments

Submitted by Sprngpilot (not verified) on Mon, 10/30/2006 - 13:01.

@Boffo97

I could make some arguments for why homophobe is, in fact, an accurate description and you're wrong. And I would make those arguments if you hadn't made it clear you have no intention of listening to anyone with an opposing opinion on this matter.

How many times must one person sigh at the desperate antics of Jack Thompson? I agree with pretty much all the posters above me, and as someone who also participated in a few sports during high school (albeit not the really homoerotic ones like football), I can say that they are much more gay than a five-second guy-on-guy kiss in Bully. I mean, you can dress up a bunch of sweaty guys hanging out and cracking sexually explicit and homophobic jokes however you want, but as soon as clothes start coming off in the shower, that's Cinemax-quality soft-core porn right there.

I think Bully will ultimately lead to the demise of Jack Thompson. Everyone who has legitimately played this game finds it to be not all that bad, and certainly much better than most of the other violent games out there that don't even attempt to teach the players a message. And while Jack may have slipped his way through this unscathed had he stuck with the "ultraviolent" angle, I think his new homophobic angle will be the final straw. As others have said, America is increasingly okay with homosexual activity, and it's becoming taboo to actively discriminate against them in any way. I remember taking a course earlier in college where we broached the gay issue. As I recall, there have been "gay" people throughout history, but we're one of the first civilizations in history to classify them as such. I think people like Jack Thompson need to get off their high horses and just let people do what they want. Does my life change because some guy somewhere is kissing another dude? No, and neither does Jack Thompson's.

Much like Jimmy in Chapter Five, Jack Thompson is heading for the big fall. He's become too arrogant and obnoxious for his own good, and that can only lead to an untimely demise. Although I don't think Jack, like Jimmy, will be able to redeem himself.

@Blitz
Glad someone pointed it out. Seriously, sports are kind of as gay as you can get without stepping out of the closet (in some cases). There's also the issue of when that locker room behavior extends past just the athletes (I've had athletes slip a butt pat on me when I wasn't even playing a sport). But conspiracy theories aside, no one is going to cry out against the homosexual undertones of organized sports just because they're such an American thing, as most people would tell you.

If anything, this is just JT being desparate. He keeps saying take the game off the shelves, first because it's a columbine simulator, which is false (no guns, no blood, no death). And now he's continually pitching the "harmful to children" angle because he expects support from the minority of parents who still think too much TV and Videogames makes ya stoopid.

If JT is right, then this game will sell to every child in the nation and we'll have a generation of homosexual columbine bullies destroying schools everywhere... But if you're a sane person you'd actually find that school and teen violence are actaully not such a massive issue nor have they gotten any worse since Bully's announcement or release.

On a final note.. Let's all share a laugh at Jack's expense, since he thinks kissing is sex. And also, let's laugh at him for thinking that boys across the nation will start kissing each other because of a game.

Yet again, the issue that is blatantly obvious here is that Thompson is making a problem out of the fact that the kissing scenes can be homosexual in nature :\ If it were a lad kissing a girl, I doubt he'd perceive any ammunition.

Bit of a dilemma for the people stuck making the choices though. Buy into Thompson's ridiculous propaganda and they'll be effectively stating that any display of homosexuality in a game automatically equals explicit pornography. Homophobic, much?

I'm honestly sick to death of the media hype over a game that looks like hardly anything to be concerned about. You can develop homosexual relationships in The Sims, so why didn't Thompson preach about that? Only because there wasn't so much goddamn pre-release hype over the game, no doubt.

I thought there was a mention in a previous article discussing the kissing content of the game. Someone from the ESRB (might have been Patricia Vance, I can't recall) said, in response to the talk about gay kissing in Bully, that R* STATED, when submitting the game, that the game contained kissing, that it could potentially include gay kissing, and that the ESRB WAS AWARE AND CONSIDERED this when handing down the T rating. If this is true (and even if I'm imagining the artlcle, it likely is more or less true) then there was no fradulence at all. None. At all. Jack just has to get used to the idea that the world does not live by his own set of beliefs and that maybe this isn't the big deal he personally thinks it is.
Also, @Brer: In most of his previous correspondence I'd agree that what JBT says is either a biased but still valid interpretation of fact, or an opinion of his. And in hindsight, the body of his letter could still be called that, though barely. But the title of the memo is not such a case:
"Re: Gay Sex in Bully Video Game; Retail Sale of Sexual Material Harmful to Minors"
Gay Sex in Video Game. You cannot say that something, IN YOUR OPINION, contains gay sex. This is attempting to make a factual claim about what is or is not contained within the game.
What he can complain is that the game contains acts that, to him, fall under the category of Gay Sex. He can make this claim, but according to the Wikipedia stuff on defamation I don't know if this is a defense because he might be the only person who considers guy-guy kissing to be gay sex - a 'reasonable person' would not agree with him.
In the body of the letter he calls it 'homosexual activity' which is valid. But I say that the subject line of this letter is libel - though I don't know if that line alone would justify a case or if my judgment on the matter is less kind than that of the average judge.

I believe this IS defamatory, as it states, explicitly, that kissing between males is harmful pornography while kissing between other gender pairs is not. This maliciously defames any homosexual or bisexual make who reads it.

Not that I know florida law but that state has legal rights for gays no?

He once ran against Janet Reno and his entire campaign was based on the premise that she should not be elected because she was a closet lesbian. He also has made about as many venomous anti-gay statements as Fred Phelps, just not quite as nasty.

I don't think Jack's assertions are half as notable for their actual legal merit (ie, none) as for their potential impact.

Like it or not, when it comes to the mainstream media Jack's had some good PR; if it's widely out that a Florida court is examining the game on grounds that it contains sexual obscenity, that could be enough for parents' associations and family groups to band together to have the game pulled.

We know that his assertions are groundless, but if JBT gets the right person on side, to report a skewed account of the game's content, it could have pretty bad repercussions.

South Florida (where JT lives) among other things has: a massive illegal drug trade, a growing obesity problem, plenty of illegal’s, plenty of corruptions, a laging educational system, more HIV/AIDS cases then 44 other states combined and what is this moron most pressing issue in life? Boy on boy kissing.

JT is right there is a cultural war in this country, the war is getting this frivolous junk out of the spotlight so legislators could fix some real problems for a change (and plus the pro-health pro-nutrition legislation won’t be struck down by the courts, vetoed by the president because he has ties to the food industry yes… but that a whole another rant entirely.)

Just read the Gaygamer article. Nice to see I'm not the only one who though Jack spoke with a forked tongue. :)

I've long maintained Jack was a bigot, and here's incontrovertible proof right here. His true colors are now out in the open for all to see. You can clothe yourself in rightousness when you talk about protecting children from gratuitious violence and it'll look okay because, well let's face it, no one in their right mind will say they're for kids being exposed to that kind of stuff. But when you openly come out against homosexuality at a time when it's becoming accepted by society, that's very bad form. Homophobia is being increasingly looked down upon, and politicians who have taken an anti-gay stance are finding themselves losing support among all but the most die-hard conservatives. He's now probably just as disgusting an individual as Fred Phelps, Anita Bryant or Phyllis Schlafly.

If you ask me, his contempt trail can't come fast enough. He really needs someone to put him in his place.

Does Jack know that he's opening a can of worms here? Think about it, do parents have a right to be angry if their children are presented with homosexual relationships in their media. I'm actually referring to an already ongoing discussion about whether or not homosexuality should be taught to students in elementary and high school. People are getting pretty vicious over this stuff (harkens back to the evolution vs. creation debate). I'm just pissed because Jack may inflame people over another issue entirely, and what pisses me off even more is that he has absolutely no chance of winning in the first place.

"Thompson is a media whore who just wants to push his narrow minded sensibilities onto an entire nation. It is shameful that he calls himself a lawyer, with so much bile and hatred spewing from his forked tongue."

As I said before, Thompson is far off base on this one. He told us several times to go outside or get a life, and has even specifically mentioned we should be more contsructive and enjoy such activities as reading and playing sports.

Mr. Thompson, I was a regular four sport athlete who participated in a combination of 6 sports for 6 consecutive years, and I am heterosexual. Before you start liking me for that, let me point out that playing sports leads to more homosexual moments and tension than anything found in 'Bully'.

In organized sports, these activities are common:

A) Mass showering with the same gender (nudity and explicit 'drop the soap' jokes)

B) Dressing and undressing on a daily basis in front of same gender (nudity)

C) Celebratory Butt-Patting from same gender (touching)

D) Finally, as a witness and not a victim, hazing rituals that involve such activities as kissing fellow rookies of the same gender, streaking in front of entire family units in communities, and towel whipping of naked groups from same gender.

Please note that I was either involved in, witnessed, or sneakily avoided these activities before Bully, before GTA 3, before Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, before Will & Grace, and on and on and on.

Actually, in some places, gays kissing is considered an offense, it's considered disturbing the public peace or something idiotic like that.

However, someone made agood point ealier, forgive me for not remembering whom you are and for being to lazy to scroll up and check. The point was that he's going after videogames when his state, and for that matter, America in itself should be dealing with problems that are more important then videogames.

Homelessness, Medical Care, Unemployment...Stuff like that should be more important then videogames and what do we have American politicians wasting time and money on? Video Games.

Is it just me or does everyone else see the flawed logic that seems to have gotten itself a soapbox for the majority of the past few years? It's created more controversy lately then almost all other 'problems' of society like Rap music, violent TV shows, comics and the always dreaded D&D. (Yet the books based on D&D and not actually given that name were always ignored. Gasp.)

Just read JT's full letter (for letter see pile of complete lies and dis-information from a failed, homophobic laywer):

"A recent Reuters story indicates that parental concern about this is growing, as reportage of this new video game industry scandal is making headlines today around the world."

The only stories around the world now are about how Bully isn't that bad and all the ho-hah about it is clearly misplaced. The stories even point out JT's lack of knowledge for judging the game before it was even completed. Pity he didn't do his research again.

"now that we know that it contains not only high levels of unpunished violence"

Who's 'we' - everyone who's seen or played it knows that it does not contain high levels of unpunished violence! Once again, no research, just babbling out the usual garbage and lies.

Every review I've read (and pre-view) mentioned the fact Jimmy could kiss boys and girls, so exactly who wasn't told - Oh hang on, the only person who doesn't matter in any of this; the only person who thinks he's important; the only person who never researches or looks at the facts - dear old loopy lawyer Jack Thompson!

"However, now each of you knows, and from now on, from this minute forward, you are all on the hook"

On the hook? Come on, on the hook from what? Selling a Teen rated game which features activities that any teen can see on television or film, or read about online or in the news.

What a sad lonely little white haired old bigot!

Rich

Wouldn't it be funny if his son "came out" at the dinner table tonight?

lets face it the guy is a desperate joke. When this angle fails he'll try to find another angle to justify himself. He sure hates the country he lives in tho and is pissing people off left and right, needless to say the line to dance on his grave will be a long one.

I wonder if our old bag of wind keith vaz will pick up on this angle?, still i saw the game on sale over here a few hours ago (had a label on it saying "also known as bully") and people wernt stooped over in front of it crying and shouting think of the children.

You know, "homophobia" really isn't a word we should be throwing around here.

First off, this whole debate really isn't about homosexuality to begin with. It's about simulated boy-boy kissing. Simulated boy-boy kissing has been in both Sims games and in a small way in GTA: San Andreas as I pointed out in an earlier post. None of it was pornographic.

Secondly, it's a term that just gets applied as a free "get out of jail free" card for any arguments made against homosexuality. Anyone says the slightest little thing against it, and "Oh, you're a homophobe!" and we're supposed to be better than that. If we wanted, we could start calling Jack a "gameophobe" in response to any arguments he makes, but how is that any better than his labeling us as pixelantes or what have you?

Thirdly, it's often inaccurate. Fear is often not the basis of objection to homosexuality. Disapproval or even disgust are not fear.

And lastly, usage of the term is hypocritical. Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. I'm sure supporters of homosexuality find that very idea repugnant. Yet at least some of them now turn around and accuse those who think differently than they do of a mental illness.

Due to the off topic nature of this content and the absolute sureness that certain people around here would want to engage in a flame war on this topic, I'm not going to respond any in this vein.

But I hope I can make some people think and realize we don't need to resort to kneejerk PC name calling for Jack. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms we can level. Especially focusing on the first point that this is not about homosexuality or pornography in the first place.

Why is GP even reporting this? Take-Two is going to ignore him. The retailers are going to ignore him. Even the politicians are ignoring him, why is this news? He can't stop Bully and when he tried, he received a bar complaint from a judge. How long before Jack dies of a massive heart attack from all the frsutrations and defeats he has suffered already?

Jack Thompson's crusade against Bully is exactly like Patricia Pulling's crusade against D&D. The two started for different reasons, but their methods are similar, even to the point of proclaiming expert status, when clearly neither of the two individuals could be considered 'knowledgeable,' let alone expert. From every person that has actually played Bully, we receive the idea that the game is not the monster he is making it out to be. This baseless assault on Bully show Mr. Thompson is allowing his personal moral agenda agaisnt creative expression he disagrees with, and now against those from an alternative lifestyle, to completely blind him to reality. Much the same as Patricia Pulling.

Luckily for Gamers (I include Gaymers in that catch-all), this crusade of Thompson's will be his undoing. I am not advicating the "Ignore him and this will go away," tactic. However, once the agendaists have had their say, the proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. I firmly believe, from the reviews of Bully, some from parent groups, that this game -ear-marked as the focal point of this culture clash- will turn out to be laughed off as harmless, or at most mildly controversial, as other anti-establishment media has been in the past. I have only played the opening, so time will tell. But those who pre-judge it; their days are numbered. Your time is reaching an end, Jack. The majority of people that play the game disagree with you, and your "this game is obscenity" angle is born of desperation.

Even the implacable Dennis has come out on a 'side' here - placing NO's squarely in the middle of Jack's obscenity tripe.

If he thinks two boys kissing qualifies as "sexual material harmful to minors," I'd say it's pretty obvious that he's either homophobic, or trying to get homophobes to denounce the game.

If he were denouncing any and all kissing in the game, I'd call him a prude. Since he's just singling out boy-on-boy smooching, I'm forced to assume he's a homophobe, or at least encouraging people to be homophobic.

There's someone on GP - perhaps several someones - who have frequently advocated going after JBT for libel/slander. I'm not saying that such things would have worked in the past, and I'm not saying that it's the best tactic to use on Mr. "Oh Noes the Video Game Conspiracy Wants to Attack My First Amendment Rights to Rant."
But this latest letter of his definitely reeks of defamation and I could see TT/R* building a reasonable case against him. He's basically claiming that he has found gay sex in the game and that as such it should be pulled from shelves.
--The statement is clearly malicious in nature - he's accusing TT of shady business practices and attempting to do damage to their trade by using his claims to encourage retailers to not sell their product.
--The question is whether his claims are in fact libellous. Saying his claims are false would likely fail - he can claim that guy on guy kissing = gay sexual acts (kissing is often sexual in nature) = gay sex. Which means it's not really true or false and is a matter of semantics. But (according to that fountain of legal information, Wikipedia) the likely defense to me seems to be:
"Fair comment on a matter of public interest, statements made with an honest belief in their truth on a matter of public interest (official acts) are defenses to a defamation claim, even if such arguments are logically unsound; if a reasonable person could honestly entertain such an opinion, the statement is protected."
JBT migth think that he is acting in the matter of public interest. The last bit of that statement is what would make or break this. Would a 'reasonable person' honestly entertain that there is gay sex in Bully? Signs point to no.
I don't want to be one of those people that say we should sue JBT at every turn, because it's hard to do and, like him or not, he is quite the weasel where the legal system is concerned. But he's not going to stop with his outlandish claims until the industry goes on the offensive and this particular letter seems like one of the more sound methods of doing so.

For instance, a boy and a girl kissing is heterosexual activity. A boy and a girl going on a date, holding hands, is heterosexual activity. A man and a woman getting married is a heterosexual activity. Yet none of those involve SEXUAL ACTIVITY.

So something can be a homosexual activity without being sexual activity.

Shout box

Infophile: @Matt: Apparently Dan Aykroyd actually is involved. We don't know how yet, though, but he's apparently going to be in the movie in some way.08/02/2015 - 4:17am

Mattsworkname: I still hold that not having the origonal cast invovled in any way hurts this movie, and unless the 4 actresses in the lead roles can some how measure up to the comic timing of the origonal cast, i just don't see it being a success08/02/2015 - 12:46am

Mattsworkname: Mecha: regardless of what you think of it, GB 2 was a finanical success and for it time did well with audiances ,even if it wasnt as popular as the first08/02/2015 - 12:45am

MechaTama31: I think they're better off trying to do something different, than trying to be exactly the same and having every little difference held up as a shortcoming. Uncanny valley.08/01/2015 - 11:57pm

MechaTama31: Having the original cast didn't do much for... that pink-slimed atrocity which we must never speak of.08/01/2015 - 11:56pm

Mattsworkname: Andrew: If the new ghostbusters bombs, I cant help but feel it'll be cause it removed the origonal cast and changed the formula to much08/01/2015 - 8:31pm

Andrew Eisen: Not the best look but that appears to be a PKE meter hanging from McCarthy's belt.08/01/2015 - 7:34pm

Mattsworkname: You know what game is a lot of fun? rocket league. It' s a soccer game thats actually fun to play cause your A Freaking CAR!08/01/2015 - 7:02pm

Mattsworkname: Nomad colossus did a little video about it, showing the world and what can be explored in it's current form. It's worth a look, and he uses text for commentary as not to break the immerison08/01/2015 - 5:49pm

Mattsworkname: I feel some more mobility would have made it more interesting and I feel that a larger more diverse landscape with better graphiscs would help, but as a concept, it interests me08/01/2015 - 5:48pm

Andrew Eisen: Huh. I guess I'll have to check out a Let's Play to get a sense of the game.08/01/2015 - 5:47pm

Mattsworkname: It did, I found the idea of exploring a world at it's end, exploring the abandoned city of a disappeared alien race and the planets various knooks and crannies intriqued me.08/01/2015 - 5:46pm

Andrew Eisen: Did it appeal to you? If so, what did you find appealing?08/01/2015 - 5:43pm

Mattsworkname: Its an interesting concept, but it's not gonna appeal to everyone thats for sure,08/01/2015 - 5:40pm

Andrew Eisen: That sounds horrifically boring. Doesn't sound like an interesting use of its time dilation premise either. 08/01/2015 - 5:36pm

Mattsworkname: an observer , seeing this sorta frozen world and being able to explore without any restriction other then time. no enimes, no threats, just the chance to explore08/01/2015 - 5:34pm