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Hmm...when you talk about Eva, yes, you generally do (although I'm o the opinion that Shinji ACCEPTED Instrumentality in the show)...but trying to extend it to a cultural commentary on Japan doesn't really work.

I got the impression that Shinji accepted, then ended up rejecting Instrumentality (particularly the scene where him and Rei have that freaky moment where their bodies morph together, and he decides to pull out of it)...Of course the End of Evangelion gets so Psychedelic and abstract at points that it goes out of my range of capability to try to seriously argue about the symbolism going on there

Though I kinda agree with you. I don't think you can look at some of the scenes I've pointed out in Rebuild movie one and say that it's an example of how Japan is a collectivist society. People doing things in large groups (particularly in crisis situations) isn't something unique to collectivist societies, nor is thinking humanity shouldn't be destroyed.

It appears in both that Shinji ragequits, but is brought back by a realization of his own self-worth from others.

I don't think it'd make sense for both endings to arrive at different conclusions; that'd just break the story to me. It seems that instrumentality was their roundabout way of uniting humanity, and thus is hardly an emotionally satisfying solution. (Of course what actually happened isn't that much better, but hey) It would seem that EoE was done to display a properly budgeted ending of the tv version. It'd just be simpler to explain the tv as abstract and the movie as eh somewhat less so.

I got the impression that Shinji accepted, then ended up rejecting Instrumentality (particularly the scene where him and Rei have that freaky moment where their bodies morph together, and he decides to pull out of it)...Of course the End of Evangelion gets so Psychedelic and abstract at points that it goes out of my range of capability to try to seriously argue about the symbolism going on there

I should've been clearer...obviously, in EoE, Shinji rejects Instrumentality, but I don't see anything in the TV series (or as I termed it above, "the show") to indicate the same thing. And the filmbook of the episode flat-out states that the final scene is Shinji accepting Instrumentality.

I should've been clearer...obviously, in EoE, Shinji rejects Instrumentality, but I don't see anything in the TV series (or as I termed it above, "the show") to indicate the same thing. And the filmbook of the episode flat-out states that the final scene is Shinji accepting Instrumentality.

That's what I gathered from the TV Show as well: that Shinji was accepting Instrumentality while in the Movie he gave people the choice to accept it or not. But obviously that's just what I got from the series and it's been quite some time since I last saw it so details are a bit sketchy for me.

I should've been clearer...obviously, in EoE, Shinji rejects Instrumentality, but I don't see anything in the TV series (or as I termed it above, "the show") to indicate the same thing. And the filmbook of the episode flat-out states that the final scene is Shinji accepting Instrumentality.

Aaaaah! ok that makes much more sense.

Though wasn't a big reason for the way Ep 25 and 26 of the TV broadcast went the way they did because Gainax had run out of money to do a big budget final? I guess that's one reason why I didn't get to freaked out by the later more abstract *artsy* sequences. I mainly just thought of them as a cheap way for them to fill the time slot.

People responsible for making sure there was money: IT WAS A SCHEDULING MISHAP!
People responsible for making sure there's proper scheduling: IT WAS A BUDGET SHORTFALL!

Not quite...I *think* it was Tsurumaki who said that it was a budget problem, whereas Anno has said that that's the way he wanted the ending all along (which is what led to the entirely-unsubstantiated "EoE was Anno's big F-You to the fans!"). Other staff members have generally echoed one of these two positions.

The first one is easier to believe, but we really have no idea which one is ACTUALLY true...

*Anno plots to have a psychedelic mind fuck ending from the beginning*
*They run out of money*
*Anno brings up the crazy ending. Other people have mixed feelings, but due to budgetary constraints can' really suggest doing anything else*

*Anno plots to have a psychedelic mind fuck ending from the beginning*
*They run out of money*
*Anno brings up the crazy ending. Other people have mixed feelings, but due to budgetary constraints can' really suggest doing anything else*

So, Xxxx Xxxxxx shows up dressed as Mari Illustrious Makinami, right? And I'm talking to her, and I tell her that a lot of western fans don't like Mari. And she's like, "Ehhh? Nande? Why?" So I tell her that a lot of Western fans think Mari doesn't fit with Eva, and that she stole the spotlight from Asuka.

And then, immediately after I finish telling her that, Zzzzzz Zzzzzz walks up to us and tells Xxxxxx, "Y'know, I don't like Mari." And Xxxxxx's all like, "Why?" And Zzzzzz's all like, "I like her design, but I don't think she fits with Eva, and she stole the spotlight from Asuka."