I don't know where "several breeders" have her dogs. There's the noble paws people, and I don't know the story behind them. Then there's the aatu tamaskan people who have one dog (that I know of) to use as a POSSIBLE outcross. The aatus are operating out of a very small genepool and are bringing in additional foundation stock to try and correct some issues (idiopathic epilepsy) and widen the gene pool a bit. I'm not sure where it's a problem for a breed club to explore the possibility of utilizing a health tested temperament tested dog from ANCD lines and it's okay with the ANCD breeder that her dog is POSSIBLY used. Because he hasn't been used yet. You make it sound like these people are churning out half a dozen litters a year and peddling them through puppyfind, and really that's not the case. At all.

Aatu Tamaskan, NoblePawz, and another breeder all three have her dogs. And are crossing them on wolf hybrids. Aatu Tamaskan has been the subject of MUCH debate in the past within wolfdog communities. NoblePawz obviously has it's own history. This new breeder looks like a BYB, just pumping out pups and selling them via PayPal. And, oddly enough, calling them SIBES. Because Mutt x Alaskan/Wolf Husky totally equals Sibes.

If she is SO "selective" how are these dogs falling into these programs? Right as I thought they would at the BEGINNING of this thread? She hasn't even made it 5 generations, and it's already doomed to fail in the hands of BYBing practices to make WolfDogs. I'm simply not impressed, and as said before, I don't see this going anywhere. And I'm definitely not convinced wolf blood isn't in there, with as many characteristics as they have. Lauren brought up many good points on that, too.

If it's a companion breed, fine. If it's a sport mix, fine. Is it a new breed that will totally stop people from watering down other workings breeds? Nope. Because the general public still WANT Sibes, GSDs, Mals, etc. They just don't want the temperaments, the hassle. Or, they DO want the hassle, and they think they are "man enough" to take it. This "breed" isn't filling any major niche, and I suppose that's why she may have been forced to sell to breeding programs that don't have any good reputation. And considering these people still have these dogs of hers, I suppose she doesn't, or at one time didn't have a contract to protect her so-called breed. Or else I suppose any good breeder would snatch the dogs back and re-home them appropriately. Especially if they are trying to create a new breed with these dogs. She's definitely not concerned with reputation. Or maybe she was just THAT clueless?

Those who want wolfy looking dogs with temperament and health are a small select group of people. Everyone else just wants wolfy looking dogs to throw in the backyard and call "Wolfy". And they aren't going to pay the money for a lawn ornament with a crap load of "accomplishments". Only bigger BYBers will do that, the Wolf Hybrid breeders who are trying to call their dogs Tamaskans or Sibes. People are taking these dogs and twisting other breeds. Tamaskans, Alaskans, and Sibes so far. How long until the GSD breeding community grabs on to this gem? Or, heck, Shiloh Shepherds at least? You know how well those took off. And they seem to be such BIG fans of AD.

This is something that has been done TIME and TIME again. It's nothing new or revolutionary. It's old, and it's going to create a lovely mess that the rest of us will have to clean up. Again.

Kootenay, Yarrow is gorgeous. Truly, he is. And I look forward to seeing more pictures of him and hearing of his adventures. But I hope you understand that I find this no different than the Sarloos, Tamaskan, or any other breed that tried to fill this niche before and failed miserably because of the the very reason it was created. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to say so in a few years, as I'm interested and intrigued by the idea, and the health and temperament testing. But I'm not optimistic.

And that's all I really have to say. As Cliffdog said, arguing on this thread isn't going to change anything.

It's not even the first large companion breed anyone has ever gone about making. Leonbergers were created specifically to look like lions so they could be Leonberg's town mascot, and be nice family companions. They were bred for none of the functions mastiffs normally served, and they're not even modern.

People don't have huge issues with them existing as far as I know. What's the difference between making a dog that looks like a lion vs. a wolf?

Besides, it's not even like these dogs are limited to being companions. The foundation dogs have a crap ton of titles (more than the majority of GSD breeders put on their dogs) and a crap ton of health testing (again, more than the majority of people shoving Fifi and Fido together and clanking them together to make puppies) and are supposed to be an everyman dog that does well in a lot of venues like tracking and agility.

ETA: Sorry Lyzelle, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and wait to see what happens. I'm a fan of tamaskans as well (the ones I've met were fabulous dogs with balanced, great temperaments, just not quite what I was looking for in temperament-wise to live with but I love them). The aatu community from what I've seen has been really transparent about what is behind their dogs after they discovered it, as the original founders of the breed hid the fact that they used a pedigreed sarloos among other health related things. The ones that I've seen have all that information right there on their websites and it was a factor in them splitting from the UK tamaskan, so I'm not sure how there could be a lot of controversy within the wolfdog community unless that controversy happened before that came out.

People will always BYB northern breeds unfortunately and misrepresent their puppies, just like the BYB toy dogs and sell them as "purebread chiweenerpoos". I just don't think this breed is going to have much impact on that happening. The people who want health tested titled parents of their puppies will go to these people and the folks who want a shiny cool puppy will get duped into a malamutexsibexgsd "wolf hybrid".

I have been trying to figure out what breeds are in my dog. I assumed she was a pure bred MUTT, with an unknown history. For a while I was convinced she was a Belgian sheepdog/Border Collie, but she looks nearly identical to Yarrow! And after reading the base breeds for the Alaskan Noble Companion dog, I am pretty convinced.
She looks like a black wolf, I get comments all the time on how beautiful she is, and people have been taken aback on the trail when she is off leash, unsure if she is bear, wolf or dog! Didn't know people were seeking out this dog specifically, I kind of ended up with her on accident! I really wasn't looking for a shepherd mix. But I couldn't giver her up now, we're best buds.

I just sent away for a doggy DNA test, so I will have the results one day.

I have been trying to figure out what breeds are in my dog. I assumed she was a pure bred MUTT, with an unknown history. For a while I was convinced she was a Belgian sheepdog/Border Collie, but she looks nearly identical to Yarrow! And after reading the base breeds for the Alaskan Noble Companion dog, I am pretty convinced.
She looks like a black wolf, I get comments all the time on how beautiful she is, and people have been taken aback on the trail when she is off leash, unsure if she is bear, wolf or dog! Didn't know people were seeking out this dog specifically, I kind of ended up with her on accident! I really wasn't looking for a shepherd mix. But I couldn't giver her up now, we're best buds.

I just sent away for a doggy DNA test, so I will have the results one day.

Remember, from my understanding this is a breed still being developed and all the off spring pretty monitored, so the likelihood that your girl is one is pretty slim.

It's amazing how much you can get lookalikes for some of the breeds out there! But you have to take into account not just the look but overall chance that the breed is common enough to end up in the shelter.

But regardless your dog from the your little avatar picture looks gorgeous and you should post some more pictures of her!

Im not too worried, it wasn't overly expensive. And it can't do any harm having someone else guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linds

Remember, from my understanding this is a breed still being developed and all the off spring pretty monitored, so the likelihood that your girl is one is pretty slim.

It's amazing how much you can get lookalikes for some of the breeds out there! But you have to take into account not just the look but overall chance that the breed is common enough to end up in the shelter.

But regardless your dog from the your little avatar picture looks gorgeous and you should post some more pictures of her!

Ya, maybe she is, maybe she isn't, she did come up from California without a history. Sometimes its nice to be able to label her though, everyone sees something else in her (other than wolf, that one is very consistent). All I know is that I have never seen another dog other than Yarrow that matches her physical type so well, the stance, the eyes, the tail, the fur coat, the colour markings. But maybe all black dogs look alike . Though one of her cool attributes is that she has a spotted tongue.
I will try and post more photos, but Im still trying to figure out how, the size limits are kind of tiny on here!

Remember, from my understanding this is a breed still being developed and all the off spring pretty monitored, so the likelihood that your girl is one is pretty slim.

It's amazing how much you can get lookalikes for some of the breeds out there! But you have to take into account not just the look but overall chance that the breed is common enough to end up in the shelter.

But regardless your dog from the your little avatar picture looks gorgeous and you should post some more pictures of her!

Ya, it might be a stretch calling her an ANCD, but I couldn't believe how similar my dog looks to Yarrow, they have the same coat, eyes, tail and body type. But she is a rescue from California with no known history (other than obvious signs of abuse). Sometimes its just nice to be able to call her something! But there is one thing for sure, she is cute and she knows it! And one of her cool attributes is a very spotted tongue!

Unfortunately I cant seem to compress my pictures small enough for this website to accept them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SevenSins

You wasted your money, those tests are a scam.

I'm not too worried, it wasn't that expensive and I wouldn't mind another guess at it.

I wondered if Kootenay could tell something about the development of her ANCD?
I already had contact with the breeder via e-mail. And what she wrote sounded great. But since the breed is still in progress I would like to hear what they are really like of an owner.
Are they really as trainable as described?
What are similarities and differences to other (more common) breeds?

At the moment I wouldn't get a second dog. But maybe in one or two years...
And I definetly love the look of them. But looks aren't everything