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Anti-WHDVR / Anti-Cloud / SOD & RBAC (Genie vs. HDDVR, etc).

Good afternoon folks!
Today, my DirecTV installer came out and set me up with a SWM-LNB (1 wire coming off the dish), a Genie (HR34? Whichever one is the fat model that doesn't have wireless) & 3 Clients & a cinema connection kit. It's a neat system, but I am not totally enthused.

I've had DirecTV previously so I know that they're the right choice for my personal television viewing preferences, however I have some concerns.
My primary concern being with having 1 Genie, and 3 'Clients'. It's a really great concept that most people would love, but I take issue with the fact that if the Genie dies, all my TVs die. Seriously, Like I said before, really great concept, but in practice, it makes me nervous. Is there any work-around or assurances for something like that?

The only solution I know of, is to obtain additional full-fledged receivers (which in my case, would be 1-2 additional HDDVR's).
My next concern would be "purchasing" (leasing) additional receivers. The neat feature about the Genie is being able to see all your content through-out your house. While that's also a great idea, sometimes I don't want my whole household to see the content that I've recorded (parental controls aren't perfect, and the side effects are less than desirable). I did talk to "tech support", and they've advised me because I have the whole home DVR service, that any additional DVR's I connect to my account will share the playlists with the other devices. Also, since I have the cinema connection kit, even if I don't want the other HDDVR's connected to the internet, because they are connected to the SWM, I don't have a choice... It's all or nothing.
It was at this moment that I had a brilliant idea. I'll just disconnect the cinema kit, and connect the Genie to the internet. That will allow me to use the internet features in the living room, but the other devices will be 'offline'. Upon searching this forum (and solidsignal, and weaknees, and a few other places), I've learned that apparently connecting the Genie to the internet is the same thing as having the cinema kit. The genie will put the entire network on the internet.
So, my next brilliant plan was to use the 'legacy ports', because they didn't pass the SWM signal. Unfortunately, that doesn't look like an option for me. 1) Because I have a SWM LNB, so I don't have legacy ports, and 2) Because even if I had them, the max is like, 3, and I'm talking about connecting 4 tuners (up to 2 DVR's).

I was nervous when the sales gal I talked to told me she was setting me up with the Genie system, but decided to give it a go. I've had the system for about 5.5 hours now and while the television service is streaming nicely, I've got about 18 hours to figure out whether I can make this work or if I need to cancel before having to pay a $240 ETF.

But if he adds a splitter he can get more ports as well or does the SWM LNB have the 4 cables. I thought the HR2x used only one cable for the receiver and the SWM LNB would support tuners support up to 8 tuners.

Good afternoon folks!
Today, my DirecTV installer came out and set me up with a SWM-LNB (1 wire coming off the dish), a Genie (HR34? Whichever one is the fat model that doesn't have wireless) & 3 Clients & a cinema connection kit. It's a neat system, but I am not totally enthused.

I've had DirecTV previously so I know that they're the right choice for my personal television viewing preferences, however I have some concerns.
My primary concern being with having 1 Genie, and 3 'Clients'. It's a really great concept that most people would love, but I take issue with the fact that if the Genie dies, all my TVs die. Seriously, Like I said before, really great concept, but in practice, it makes me nervous. Is there any work-around or assurances for something like that?

The only solution I know of, is to obtain additional full-fledged receivers (which in my case, would be 1-2 additional HDDVR's).
My next concern would be "purchasing" (leasing) additional receivers. The neat feature about the Genie is being able to see all your content through-out your house. While that's also a great idea, sometimes I don't want my whole household to see the content that I've recorded (parental controls aren't perfect, and the side effects are less than desirable). I did talk to "tech support", and they've advised me because I have the whole home DVR service, that any additional DVR's I connect to my account will share the playlists with the other devices. Also, since I have the cinema connection kit, even if I don't want the other HDDVR's connected to the internet, because they are connected to the SWM, I don't have a choice... It's all or nothing.
It was at this moment that I had a brilliant idea. I'll just disconnect the cinema kit, and connect the Genie to the internet. That will allow me to use the internet features in the living room, but the other devices will be 'offline'. Upon searching this forum (and solidsignal, and weaknees, and a few other places), I've learned that apparently connecting the Genie to the internet is the same thing as having the cinema kit. The genie will put the entire network on the internet.
So, my next brilliant plan was to use the 'legacy ports', because they didn't pass the SWM signal. Unfortunately, that doesn't look like an option for me. 1) Because I have a SWM LNB, so I don't have legacy ports, and 2) Because even if I had them, the max is like, 3, and I'm talking about connecting 4 tuners (up to 2 DVR's).

I was nervous when the sales gal I talked to told me she was setting me up with the Genie system, but decided to give it a go. I've had the system for about 5.5 hours now and while the television service is streaming nicely, I've got about 18 hours to figure out whether I can make this work or if I need to cancel before having to pay a $240 ETF.

Click to expand...

Your concern is something that people have brought up before. That is one reason that some people have opted to go with additional DVRs or receivers instead of clients. With regards to not sharing recordings, there are a few options, but they are limited. If you share your PlayList, anyone can see it. You can opt to not share your PlayList, however, that would be with other receivers and not the clients. The clients can see the PlayList no matter what your sharing is set for as they are essentially just an extension of the Genie. If you opt to get 2 more DVRs, that will get you to 9 tuners, which means that you would have a SWM16 installed and then you would have the legacy ports. If you hooked up the DVRs to to legacy ports, be sure to use BBCs.

With regard to the access to the Internet, if you are worried about PPV stuff being ordered, set a PIN for ordering and the maximum amount allowed without a PIN to be $0. You can also set it to not allow Web Videos, which would block YouTube.

If you opt to use DVRs instead of the clients, you can then tell the Genie to not share its PlayList while the DVRs share theirs. That will allow you to see everyone else's recordings and no one can see yours.

But if he adds a splitter he can get more ports as well or does the SWM LNB have the 4 cables. I thought the HR2x used only one cable for the receiver and the SWM LNB would support tuners support up to 8 tuners.

Click to expand...

With a SWM-LNB, you have one coax from the dish that is split to go to any receivers that the customer has. You can have any combination of receivers (1 tuner) and DVRs (2 tuners) as you like as long as the total is not more than 8. With a SWM16, you have two outputs, each of which can handle up to 8 tuners.

Merg, as always (or so it appears from my forum-searching) you are very correct.
Obviously the Genie has 5 tuners, and I can add up to 3 additional tuners on the SWM-LNB for a total of 8. (1 HD receiver and 1 DVR {2 Tuners}, or 3 HD receviers, etc).
I like the idea of the SWM-16, however, I would have to acquire one (just like the Receivers). So, that could potentially be a very fun call. I strongly doubt those are drop-shipped, and now that I think about it, drop-shipping isn't an option because a tech would have to come out and swap the dish (err, maybe just the LNB?).

peds48, I see your point, but what if I didn't want the units connected to the internet?
The Merg brought up some good work-arounds:

The Merg said:

With regard to the access to the Internet, if you are worried about PPV stuff being ordered, set a PIN for ordering and the maximum amount allowed without a PIN to be $0. You can also set it to not allow Web Videos, which would block YouTube.

If you opt to use DVRs instead of the clients, you can then tell the Genie to not share its PlayList while the DVRs share theirs. That will allow you to see everyone else's recordings and no one can see yours.

- Merg

Click to expand...

But I'm trying to avoid having the other units connected to the network/internet all together, and it sounds like (at least with the SWM-LNB) that's not possible.

So If I'm understanding this correctly, I'm looking at an all-or-nothing situation (unless I can convince DirecTV to swap some clients with some receivers, and/or swap my dish and add a multiswitch). It sounds like Option 1 is to disconnect all the equipment from the network (remove the connection kit, and not connect the genie via the ethernet port), or Option 2 is have everything connected.
On a side note, it seems like I could actually do the opposite. If I had 1-2 regular DVRs, I could connect those to the internet without it sharing the connection over coax, but I could be wrong about that.

If you add DVRs to your account that would take you over 8 tuners, DirecTV automatically puts an order in for a SWM16. A tech would come out and replace the LNB with a legacy LNB and then run 4 cables down to the SWM16.

Another thing you can do to keep the other receivers from having access to the Genie or the Internet would be to use a Band Stop Filter (BSF). The BSF would prevent MRV and Ethernet traffic from going beyond wherever it is on a coax. You could isolate the DVRs for Whole Home amongst themselves and the Genie would be on the other side with access to the clients and the Internet.

If you add DVRs to your account that would take you over 8 tuners, DirecTV automatically puts an order in for a SWM16. A tech would come out and replace the LNB with a legacy LNB and then run 4 cables down to the SWM16.

Click to expand...

Ahh OK. That's good to know, and it actually gives me another idea.
If I had a legacy LNB (from a slimline dish), could I swap the SWM-LNB with it? Is there a difference between the legacy slimline dish and the SWM slimline dish?

The Merg said:

Another thing you can do to keep the other receivers from having access to the Genie or the Internet would be to use a Band Stop Filter (BSF). The BSF would prevent MRV and Ethernet traffic from going beyond wherever it is on a coax. You could isolate the DVRs for Whole Home amongst themselves and the Genie would be on the other side with access to the clients and the Internet.

Click to expand...

I was just reading about that in another thread! Literally!
Is that something I can get from DirecTV? Or do I have to get it via solidsignal?

Ahh OK. That's good to know, and it actually gives me another idea.
If I had a legacy LNB (from a slimline dish), could I swap the SWM-LNB with it? Is there a difference between the legacy slimline dish and the SWM slimline dish?

Click to expand...

According to your OP, you have a SWM-LNB now. If you put your legacy LNB back, you need a SWM16 or SWM8 (not really used anymore). The dish you have is fine for use with both types of LNBs.

HighTechRedneck said:

I was just reading about that in another thread! Literally!
Is that something I can get from DirecTV? Or do I have to get it via solidsignal?

Click to expand...

You'd have to purchase it. You can find it at Solid Signal, Amazon, or eBay.

Ok, hold on.. Your concern is that you want more than one box that can be used in the event that the genie dies, and you want the ability to record some thing that others wont see, yes? Why not replace ONE of the clients with a hr dvr and have it not share its play list and put it in a room like your bedroom. Will solve all your issues because youll have a back, it wont show other units its playlist but will see everyone else playlist, and it fits in nicely with the existing setup.

Oh, and everything will have full internet access still as well, no issue that either.

Genie clients must be networked with the Genie itself in order to work. They are networked over the coax and that cannot be avoided. You can do this without connecting the Genie to your LAN (i.e., no outside network connection, so no internet). There is no way to have a Genie connected to the internet and not have the clients connected, and there is no way to have a client connected and not have the Genie connected.

If you have additional DVRs or receivers, then it is possible to connect some to the internet and not connect others. But if you want whole-home viewing between all the units, then you are back to an all or nothing situation with regard to outside networking.

If your primary concern is preventing some of your units having access to recordings on other of your units, you can select to share or not share the playlist from any individual DVR (or Genie) with other DVRs, Genies or receivers. However you can't share with a Genie and not with the associated clients. Clients and Genie work together in that regard.

So you could have a regular DVR (e.g., an HR24) in your system and have it's playlist restricted to only that DVR/TV (but still include it in whole-home to view recordings from other units (and have it connected to your network). Internet connectivity is unrelated to this capability. Or, you could have the Genie set up that way so it did not share it's playlist with other receivers or DVRs (but the clients would still have access to it).

Ok, hold on.. Your concern is that you want more than one box that can be used in the event that the genie dies, and you want the ability to record some thing that others wont see, yes? Why not replace ONE of the clients with a hr dvr and have it not share its play list and put it in a room like your bedroom. Will solve all your issues because youll have a back, it wont show other units its playlist but will see everyone else playlist, and it fits in nicely with the existing setup.

Oh, and everything will have full internet access still as well, no issue that either.

Click to expand...

I was just re-visiting this post to say that (sort of). What you said is exactly what's being done. DirecTV is swapping a client for an HDDVR. It only took 1.75 hours on the phone with 2 customer service reps, one "package sales" rep, 2 verification reps, and one retention rep. But, that is what is being done.

Genie clients must be networked with the Genie itself in order to work. They are networked over the coax and that cannot be avoided. You can do this without connecting the Genie to your LAN (i.e., no outside network connection, so no internet). There is no way to have a Genie connected to the internet and not have the clients connected, and there is no way to have a client connected and not have the Genie connected.

Click to expand...

You are correct sir. I am fully aware that if I connect the Genie to the internet, then the clients will be connected to the internet, because even though one is charged the full "leased/additional/mirror/WeCantCallItMirrorAnymore/WHATEVER" $6 fee (That is silly, but I guess it's better than paying for each tuner?), the "clients" are really only extended viewing devices of the genie. The Clients do not operate without a (nearly direct) connection to the Genie.

carl6 said:

If you have additional DVRs or receivers, then it is possible to connect some to the internet and not connect others. But if you want whole-home viewing between all the units, then you are back to an all or nothing situation with regard to outside networking.

Click to expand...

This is where the confusion is. Because whole-home viewing is such a popular feature, some people are confused by the fact that I may not be interested in it, or in OnDemand, or any other network/internet-based feature, *on some of my units*. Specifically, the other stand-alone units. So, aside of Band Stop Filters, or Networking voodoo, if you have any other ways of keeping my (theoretical) stand-alone units off the internet, while allowing the genie (and therefore, the clients) to access the internet, I am very interested!

carl6 said:

If your primary concern is preventing some of your units having access to recordings on other of your units, you can select to share or not share the playlist from any individual DVR (or Genie) with other DVRs, Genies or receivers. However you can't share with a Genie and not with the associated clients. Clients and Genie work together in that regard.

Click to expand...

I appreciate your clarification. I do fully understand this and am not attempting to do anything to the contrary between the Genie & the clients.

carl6 said:

So you could have a regular DVR (e.g., an HR24) in your system and have it's playlist restricted to only that DVR/TV (but still include it in whole-home to view recordings from other units (and have it connected to your network). Internet connectivity is unrelated to this capability. Or, you could have the Genie set up that way so it did not share it's playlist with other receivers or DVRs (but the clients would still have access to it).

Click to expand...

The issue is that, because I have a SWM, and because the Genie/CCK is connected to the internet, all the other receivers are forced to be connected to the internet. I am specifically using the word internet here because I don't want to to confuse the SWM/DECA "cloud" network with the broadband network.

Your only real solution is to use a BSF to keep the other receivers disconnected from the Internet.

- Merg

Sent from my iPad using DBSTalk mobile app

Click to expand...

Based on everything I know at this point, I agree with you, and that is the solution I am looking forward to. Those things are like $3 + shipping, which is drops in the bucket.
However, Considering DirecTV is sending me another HDDVR... That puts me at 7 tuners. If I get 1 more DVR, that'd put me at 9 tuners and force an LNB/Multiswich swap, and when that occurs, I can ask the tech if they have any of those little adapters on the truck.

That reminds me... I had to ask the tech for the 10 pin to A/V adapters that come with the clients today. He only gave me 2. Do they not come in the box with the units?
He also took out my barrel connectors from my wall plates (I found 1 in the Genie packaging, the rest are gone), so now I have ugly cables running through holes (in the wall plates). Oh well. I understand if he decided they would cause a problem, but really, he could've said something about it. I guess alternatively I could've said something about it, but I didn't notice 'til he was gone.

Hold on again.. There is no need to bother with a bsf, because your issue is you don't want the one dvr to be seen by the others correct? That's a simple setting inside the dvr. And it will leave internet access for on demand available if you did decide you wanted it at some point, but you wouldn't have to use it either. This would allow you to control it via an ipad still to, where as if you used a bsf, you wouldn't. Not that you would, its just there's no reason to use a bsf if its simply to isolate the recordings to the one dvr...Plus, should everyone else go on vacation for a week and you have the house to your self, you could change the setting back and have the recorded stuff everywhere for the week.. But it can only be changed at the dvr with the recordings on it.