cameroncrazy1984:Gonz: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: Mercutio74: flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time? Will Biden be there too?

You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.

There's a difference between pointing out a potential security lapse, and acting on it.

"Hey, you may want to rethink this plan, are you sure it's a good idea?" vs. "Gotta run to 1600 Penna Ave by 5:30 with my gear!".

A security lapse? It's the White House for chrissakes. How is that a security lapse?

I don't personally think it is. However, the guy who initially asked the question was pointing out that the President and the individual #2 in the line of succession are going to be in the same room, along with three other powerful politicians. If the VP was also in the same room, then you have the Big Three all in the same place.

When this happens for States of the Union and such, contingency plans kick in, and some guy who's further down the line watches the speech on TV at Camp David. At least, that's what I read into it.

It was on an episode of The West Wing.

Sure, but not in the Tom Clancy book, though. Jack Ryan got to be President because he was late to the show and was still in the tunnel when the 747 crashed on the Capitole.

Flab:snocone: Ned Stark: NFA: dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason? Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?

Being a such a group of clowns that the credit rating agencies think you can't run your country, resulty in a downgrading, is a warning.Showing the world you are a group of clowns that can't run your country, is the real problem.

Other than hanging or, my personal favorite, piking, do you really see a solution to this problem?The 1% like their clowns.

AngryDragon:I guess we'll see by about 6:30 or so. I'll meet you right here. If I'm wrong I will happily apologize. I have a bad feeling about this though.

I understand your frustration but there is, actually, no way for Dems to capitulate here even if they wanted to. The ACA horse left the barn along time ago and the Dems dont have the power to turn back time anymore than anyone else.

Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

snocone:Flab: snocone: Ned Stark: NFA: dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason? Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?

Being a such a group of clowns that the credit rating agencies think you can't run your country, resulty in a downgrading, is a warning.Showing the world you are a group of clowns that can't run your country, is the real problem.

Other than hanging or, my personal favorite, piking, do you really see a solution to this problem?The 1% like their clowns.

Guillotines, dude. They bring a certain air of refinement and sophistication to these affairs.

Flab:cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: Mercutio74: flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time? Will Biden be there too?

You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.

There's a difference between pointing out a potential security lapse, and acting on it.

"Hey, you may want to rethink this plan, are you sure it's a good idea?" vs. "Gotta run to 1600 Penna Ave by 5:30 with my gear!".

A security lapse? It's the White House for chrissakes. How is that a security lapse?

I don't personally think it is. However, the guy who initially asked the question was pointing out that the President and the individual #2 in the line of succession are going to be in the same room, along with three other powerful politicians. If the VP was also in the same room, then you have the Big Three all in the same place.

When this happens for States of the Union and such, contingency plans kick in, and some guy who's further down the line watches the speech on TV at Camp David. At least, that's what I read into it.

It was on an episode of The West Wing.

Sure, but not in the Tom Clancy book, though. Jack Ryan got to be President because he was late to the show and was still in the tunnel when the 747 crashed on the Capitole.

quickdraw:AngryDragon: I guess we'll see by about 6:30 or so. I'll meet you right here. If I'm wrong I will happily apologize. I have a bad feeling about this though.

I understand your frustration but there is, actually, no way for Dems to capitulate here even if they wanted to. The ACA horse left the barn along time ago and the Dems dont have the power to turn back time anymore than anyone else.

Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

As someone who just had a health scare I can say this. My 401K wouldn't like it, but if it means people get helath insurance, I'm all for it.

BMulligan:Flab: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: Mercutio74: flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time? Will Biden be there too?

You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.

There's a difference between pointing out a potential security lapse, and acting on it.

"Hey, you may want to rethink this plan, are you sure it's a good idea?" vs. "Gotta run to 1600 Penna Ave by 5:30 with my gear!".

A security lapse? It's the White House for chrissakes. How is that a security lapse?

I don't personally think it is. However, the guy who initially asked the question was pointing out that the President and the individual #2 in the line of succession are going to be in the same room, along with three other powerful politicians. If the VP was also in the same room, then you have the Big Three all in the same place.

When this happens for States of the Union and such, contingency plans kick in, and some guy who's further down the line watches the speech on TV at Camp David. At least, that's what I read into it.

It was on an episode of The West Wing.

Sure, but not in the Tom Clancy book, though. Jack Ryan got to be President because he was late to the show and was still in the tunnel when the 747 crashed on the Capitole.

Skleenar:Nunya_Bizness: The only thing I can think is the Republican moderates are attempting to use this episode to purge themselves of the Tea Partiers, much the way Buckley purged the John Birch society in the 60's. I think they may have finally figured out that they will require extensive rebuilding in order to form a relevant party. What they should have done is to point out a few times the significant weaknesses with ACA, in specific the fact that the whole plan requires the young single people to be willing to pay more for health care then they are currently paying or will pay in case of a penalty. Also the fact of EMR requirements for all physicians by 2015 without having any standards addressed for this or specific requirements for HIPAA compliance or certification. Or the physician shortages that are almost sure to follow. Then say nothing and silently rebuild the party and wait for the ACA governmental costs explode which will require a tax hike and then they would be poised to take advantage.

The validity of your specifics aside, if you think that anything in this debate has anything to do with the specifics of the ACA, you're sadly illusioned.

Oh no, I do not think the current Republican party has the intellectual capacity to get that far, sadly we are all the worse off for it.

quickdraw:Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

If the shutdown lasts for months, there won't be a US left. During that time the US dollar will be in absolute chaos and the world will probably be forced to switch to the Euro as it tries to limit the damage done by the global recession that'll be caused by the US tanking the global economy.

AngryDragon:quickdraw: AngryDragon: I guess we'll see by about 6:30 or so. I'll meet you right here. If I'm wrong I will happily apologize. I have a bad feeling about this though.

I understand your frustration but there is, actually, no way for Dems to capitulate here even if they wanted to. The ACA horse left the barn along time ago and the Dems dont have the power to turn back time anymore than anyone else.

Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

As someone who just had a health scare I can say this. My 401K wouldn't like it, but if it means people get helath insurance, I'm all for it.

Well - aside from the fact that ACA is good for the economy. The shutdown will allow corporate interests to act unregulated and unwatched. So depending on how you're invested your 401K may do just fine. If this went against the moneyed interests it wouldnt be happening. Somebody is making a huge profit.

naturalbornposer:InmanRoshi: naturalbornposer: Slaves2Darkness: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

If he did I would start the revolution. Understand I'm a liberal Democrat, but if the President starts arresting people for shiat like this it's time to execute people like you.

Agreed. Different beliefs are different. We're supposed to work together, not stonewall each other like the present government is doing. If we tried to erradicate everyone that disagrees with what we think is "right", everyone dies.

You are not correctly diagnosing what is going on here.

There already is "comprimise", and bipartisan support to pass a clean CR bill. If Boehner let it hit the Congressional Floor, which has already cleared with bipatisan support in the Senate, it would easily pass with votes from both sides of the aisle.

The issue is that a small faction of neo-confederate, anti-government insurrectionists and anarchists who believe they have been sent to Washington by their constituents to sabotage government from the inside. They're holding our governance hostage by the threat of the gun. The Republican Party leadership is too weak and dickless to get them to fall in line, and the Democrats can't set a precedent of rewarding hostage taking tactics.

The thing to remember is this "minority" you describe represents a large portion of the nation, not ten fringe extremists. This us and them attitude is going to split this nation in half, if not quarters (yay fractions!). Both sides are to blame for demonizing each other. Even in a 70-30 win, 30% of our nation feels they're getting shafted. Not 30 people, 30 percent. In a nation of over three hundred million that is 90,000,000 people feeling like someone else is dictating their lives against their will. Let that set in. You don't like it when its done to you.

Is this kind of like when the President is obviously lying our way into a war of aggression? That would sure suck, wouldn't it?

quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

dwrash:quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

It's a tie. There's the president, that makes 253. Biden has the strength of 25 men, so that evens it up at 278.

dwrash:quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

Factually, more people voted for Democrats to national offices in 2012 than Republicans.

mrshowrules:Carn: In the Jon Stewart clip they added in the clip from Willy Wonka "You get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!"

This is how I suspect some of Stewart's writers are visitors to Fark. I'm pretty sure this joke was posted in a thread yesterday.

Or, perhaps it's a really obvious joke considering it's a meme found all over the internet and that it's from a famous movie that Stewart and most if not all of his staff has seen once if not multiple times. Willy Wonka isn't exactly obscure, especially to people who were young when it come out.

dwrash:quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

I'd like to know your justification for lumping the Senate and House together here. It's like saying that if Romney had won Vermont and Delaware in 2012, he would have been President.

dwrash:quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

Mercutio74:quickdraw: Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

If the shutdown lasts for months, there won't be a US left. During that time the US dollar will be in absolute chaos and the world will probably be forced to switch to the Euro as it tries to limit the damage done by the global recession that'll be caused by the US tanking the global economy.

Perhaps that is their plan. Some people just want to watch the world burn. They believe, really believe, in the bible and the last days. They know Jesus is coming and will carry them to safety while the rest of the world suffers as sinners ought to suffer.

Why do people keep saying "deal"? There is no "deal" possible. This is a standard procedural matter which Congress is obligated to undertake. You can't make "deals" to do your basic job. I couldn't just walk into work tomorrow and go up to my boss and say, "Tell you what, chump, I'll make you deal. I'll do the job for which I was hired today, but only if you agree to give me more money. And if you don't, I'll just sit in my office and play with myself all day. Once you agree to my terms, we'll talk again about tomorrow".

It doesn't work that way. This is your job. You don't get to make demands to do your job. Just farking do it. No farking deals. You don't get to demand concessions for performing your most basic job functions.

quizzical:dwrash: it is the HOUSES RIGHT to deny funding to whatever it sees fit.

ALL legislation - which by definition includes funding legislation - has be passed in both the House AND the Senate. That legislation must then be signed into law by the President. If the President vetos the legislation, then the House and the Senate may overturn that veto with the approval of 2/3 of the members of EACH chamber.

So while the House has every right to keep trying to deny funding to the ACA, the Senate and the President have every right to keep telling them no. The Sentate has told the House "No!" 41 times by not taking up the House's previous efforts to repeal the ACA.

Even IF the bill passes the House AND the Senate, President Obama has already said he would veto anything except a clean CR. Unless the Republicans can muster 2/3 of the House and the Senate to override a Presidential veto, it is FUTILE for them to vote on anything except a clean CR.

In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Looks like the minority of the minority has the power to hold the government hostage. And enjoys it.

JusticeandIndependence:dwrash: quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

What does that have to do with how our government works?

[allmyroads.files.wordpress.com image 300x225]

Nothing, except the continued harping on the Republicans being the minority party is a lie.

And as far as the democrats getting more vote nationally, its irrelevant since we are not a pure democracy, we are a democratic republic...

If Obama is smart, with McConnell and Boehner separated from the pack of howling whackadoos, he'll tell them he already knows House Republicans have the votes on a clean CR if they can flush the tea party, and offer a minor, token concession on a "moderate" Republican pet issue with bipartisan support -- but not a tea party issue, like a payroll tax cut or something. Boehner can own the concession as much as he wants, as long as he puts the new CR up to a vote immediately, and instructs his caucus to vote their conscience.

If they say no, Obama, Pelosi, and Reid immediately walk out and say "we tried to negotiate, but Republican leadership is too hamstrung by right-wing extremists to act. As a show of good faith, we're putting this bill to a straight yay-or-nay vote in the Senate and sending it to the House. The American people can then judge for themselves who are the bad guys from that point." Then, they do it.

If they say yes, non-batshiat Congressional Republicans get a lifeline in dealing with the tea party, Congressional Democrats and Obama get to continue playing divide-and-conquer, and the tea party gets baited into flying its true colors even louder and prouder for all to see.

skozlaw:Why do people keep saying "deal"? There is no "deal" possible. This is a standard procedural matter which Congress is obligated to undertake. You can't make "deals" to do your basic job. I couldn't just walk into work tomorrow and go up to my boss and say, "Tell you what, chump, I'll make you deal. I'll do the job for which I was hired today, but only if you agree to give me more money. And if you don't, I'll just sit in my office and play with myself all day. Once you agree to my terms, we'll talk again about tomorrow".

It doesn't work that way. This is your job. You don't get to make demands to do your job. Just farking do it. No farking deals. You don't get to demand concessions for performing your most basic job functions.

Part of me wishes this meeting would play out like a scene from The Wire. The 4 congressional leaders sit there. The president comes in, flanked by chief of staff and Biden, and sits down. He looks directly at John Boehner and says "Do your farking job", then gets up and buttons his jacket and walks out. Boehner gives a surprised and disappointed look. Scene.

skozlaw:Why do people keep saying "deal"? There is no "deal" possible. This is a standard procedural matter which Congress is obligated to undertake. You can't make "deals" to do your basic job. I couldn't just walk into work tomorrow and go up to my boss and say, "Tell you what, chump, I'll make you deal. I'll do the job for which I was hired today, but only if you agree to give me more money. And if you don't, I'll just sit in my office and play with myself all day. Once you agree to my terms, we'll talk again about tomorrow".

It doesn't work that way. This is your job. You don't get to make demands to do your job. Just farking do it. No farking deals. You don't get to demand concessions for performing your most basic job functions.

Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time. Say boss I want a raise, say boss I do not want to do that..... now you are not guaranteed to keep your job but you are free to try.

James!: They made their last desperate attempt to stop the ACA and now it's consequences time.

See, the problem is Obama truly believes what he says - that the other side has a right to disagree and oppose him even if it means using these desperate measures to get what they want. He doesn't get pissed off and take it personal like most of us would. The guy just doesn't have the killer instinct needed to shut his opponent down because, well, he likes wrestling with pigs. It's what he does.

dwrash:JusticeandIndependence: dwrash: quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..

What does that have to do with how our government works?

[allmyroads.files.wordpress.com image 300x225]

Nothing, except the continued harping on the Republicans being the minority party is a lie.

And as far as the democrats getting more vote nationally, its irrelevant since we are not a pure democracy, we are a democratic republic...

Like it or not, the Democrats are the minority.

Let's see.

House - Republican's a minority.Senate - Republican's not a minorityWhite House - Republican's a minority.

I believe that is two out of three ways in which the Republican's are a minority in the way the United States passes laws.

TaxBoy:17 republicans have now stated they'll vote for a clean CR, so combined w/the democrats, that's >50% of the House.So if Boehner would bring it to the floor for a vote, we could be done with the shutdown TODAY.

I have a feeling this is why Nancy Pelosi is attending. Like her or not, she did get things passed. One speaker to another might help a bit - who knows