This is a discussion on Any tips when not hitting the flop? within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; I'm having trouble playing when I don't hit the flop and have some high unpaired cards or Ace plus low suited card. Usually I enter

Any tips when not hitting the flop?

I'm having trouble playing when I don't hit the flop and have some high unpaired cards or Ace plus low suited card. Usually I enter pots with a raise and C bet but scare cards make me fold too easily. It looks so easy when pros do it or someone in the tutorial explains it but it's different in game. How should I approach it? I know that it's all about outs and pot odds, statistics, hand ranges and all that. If I always fold too easily then people just re raise me more often.

my opinion is if the pot small just check and call if the bet size make sense.. if pot big and u have good draw enought then u can try to bluff and if ur opponent make reraise or big aggression you have to fold try to be patience and wait for ur moment. gl

#3

April 28th, 2018, 3:03 AM

sid kendell

Game: holdem/omaha

Posts: 97

Its tough for most people when they miss the flop after raising.I usually c -bet A high boards,K high ,paired boards,draws etc.I try to keep it at sixty percent c-bet.

#4

April 28th, 2018, 3:12 AM

johnny tigre

Online Poker at: ps/888/ACR

Posts: 411

When i get an A or K with low kicker i would most of the time fold it because i dont want to hit the pair and get involved too much in the pot and end up losing from the same pair with a better kicker.On other situations when i get to see the flop and dont hit a pair, i usually fold unless i have a flush draw or open ended straight draw.

#5

April 28th, 2018, 4:41 AM

freestocks

Poker at: ACR

Game: holdem

Posts: 1,758

You should fold. What are your choices? Bluff, or a bad call? If your hand is a miss, and you're heads up against one scared player, then maybe bet to make them fold.

#6

April 28th, 2018, 5:24 AM

karl coakley

Online Poker at: ACR

Posts: 671

re: Poker & Any tips when not hitting the flop?

Most of the time when people watch the "pros do it" you are seeing 1 hand of poker out of a lot of hands so it is shown out of context. You don't see the temperature of the table. Someone could have folded 20 hands in a row and was given "credit" for having something.

My knee-jerk reaction is you are playing too much junk. Suited A/rag is pretty much junk. Two "high unpaired cards" is also pretty much junk. Yes, I know these hands win, but a stopped clock is right 2x a day also. In the long run (and most likely the short run) you are going to run into problems with these hands. You are going to constantly be behind in hands and have to make tough decisions. Which is what you are saying in your post. You are struggling how to play post-flop, well, this is because you are being too loose.

Look at a starting hand strength chart and play fewer hands. It will make decisions easier post-flop. If you are getting into speculative hands, you need to learn to play position and control the pot. This will increase your wins, limit your losses, and make decisions easier.

#7

April 28th, 2018, 6:14 AM

Andrei Korolev

Poker at: Poker Stars

Posts: 2,675

Simple advice don't go with a weak ACE and a generally weak hand...

#8

April 28th, 2018, 7:43 AM

laimisj

Online Poker at: pokerstars

Posts: 27

if you have A plus low suited - check or fold (unless you can get a flush draw)
if you have something like KQo and flop is 2 6 10 rainbow - I think you should bet here, because you are probably ahead of your opponent most of the time, if you got raised you should probably fold and wait for a better hand.

Don't worry about folding a bit more, just play how you are comfortable and wait for a hand that has value for you.

#9

April 28th, 2018, 7:58 AM

steeler1970

Poker at: ACR

Game: Texas Holdem

Posts: 252

I will just sit out and watch every hand and if i am not hitting just wait in till i get moved to a other table

#10

April 28th, 2018, 2:43 PM

Chewfulitsch

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

Posts: 62

Originally Posted by Andrei Korolev

Simple advice don't go with a weak ACE and a generally weak hand...

I'm quite tight on my ranges but how do others manage to be 50k stack 30 minutes into a free roll? They can't be getting premium hands all the time. If I wait forever for good cards I'll get behind too much, meanwhile they win with T8s or 64o because they are lucky to draw out against my QQ.

#11

April 28th, 2018, 2:52 PM

es530

Poker at: PokerStars

Game: holdem

Posts: 1,030

Originally Posted by Chewfulitsch

I'm having trouble playing when I don't hit the flop and have some high unpaired cards or Ace plus low suited card. Usually I enter pots with a raise and C bet but scare cards make me fold too easily. It looks so easy when pros do it or someone in the tutorial explains it but it's different in game. How should I approach it? I know that it's all about outs and pot odds, statistics, hand ranges and all that. If I always fold too easily then people just re raise me more often.

I think you need to study more, understand what you've studied, so you need to practice what you understand. Your question is very superficial, what to do when you lose the first flop, most of the time you lose the flop, so
you have to understand the opponent's level before paying these bets, understanding this you can plan an action. but in what situation you're getting into, you need to know if it's worth paying these bets. So give time to your game, study, understand and practice, as time goes by, things get better. I will not tell you what to do because you need a lot of information inside your head until you find solutions to every problem. But for now, you can minimize these problems, not opening the hands that cause problems seems obvious and it is!
Sounds easy for the pros, right. but know that for those who are not easy to learn, they had to work hard for it. so if you want to improve your game. study, understand and practice good luck.

#12

April 28th, 2018, 3:04 PM

MattRyder

Posts: 3,074

re: Poker & Any tips when not hitting the flop?

I play mostly 6-max Zoom (cash). Most hands are opened and 3-bet pre-flop. Knowing this, I tend to play fairly tight pre-flop staying completely out of hands with weaker cards.

My goal is to see the flop with just one villain. If villain seems weak, and I am the one who 3-bet pre-flop, I will usually c-bet pot if first in regardless of my hand strength. It's pretty easy to tell who's weak in Zoom. They're the ones with stacks around the buy-in point. With better players I tend to wait for better starting hands and then rely more on my hand strength before deciding what to do on the flop. If I end up seeing a flop with two villains then I almost always base my flop action on hand strength.

I generally don't play Ace-trash hands or lower suited connecters/gappers or lower pairs except as a steal against weak players when the odds are really high that they are not going to 3-bet back at me. In other words, I don't pretend to have much of a chance of winning these hands based on post-flop hand strength.

#13

April 28th, 2018, 5:16 PM

IcyNicy

Game: NLHE

Posts: 76

I think it's ok to fold your hands if they don't hit the board. Are you going to win bluffing? All the time? Good luck then)
You better posted some real hands you played to find out where you played well or not.
In microlimits I prefer to play only good hands, then cbet. If opponent doesn't fold then it's time to give up if I don't have anything worth. It's better to play accordingly to the cards you have. If opponents don't fold why bluff?

#14

April 29th, 2018, 9:11 AM

Chewfulitsch

Online Poker at: PokerStars

Game: Holdem

Posts: 62

Originally Posted by IcyNicy

I think it's ok to fold your hands if they don't hit the board. Are you going to win bluffing? All the time? Good luck then)
You better posted some real hands you played to find out where you played well or not.
In microlimits I prefer to play only good hands, then cbet. If opponent doesn't fold then it's time to give up if I don't have anything worth. It's better to play accordingly to the cards you have. If opponents don't fold why bluff?

I guess it's tempting to limp and play speculative hands when you see people having success with them while you wait for good ones and they never come. Had a better run today placing 28/3945 where I folded more than before. Still had a few strings of lucky all ins with KK QQ and QJ. I was also more careful with my bet sizing and got some folds. There are good days and bad days too. Thanks all for advice!

#15

November 5th, 2018, 12:54 AM

ironduke11

Poker at: stars

Game: Holdem

Posts: 101

missing the flop

its great to watch the pros but look at the context of where you see them on tv
they are deep stacked and lateish in tournaments so they have the amount of chips required to cbet and not be terribly hampered by it

I'd love to watch early in tournaments to see how they get there but I imagine I wouldn't make good tv

early stage strategy is usually to acquire chips so you wanna cbet a % of the pot that is enough to make the opponent think you've got a hand but not so big that you will be hurt by losing....that's an art I feel because you've got these loose aggressives that call down anything
so its all about timing and feel as well...

I think you've got to look at the percentage of hands that might beat you and if they would typically be played by your opponent.
bet also hand potential ie it might not be a made hand but your opponent may be wary of you connecting on the turn or river and may give up.....if sensible...

#16

November 5th, 2018, 3:13 AM

CallmeFloppy

Online Poker at: ACR

Game: Hold-Em

Posts: 797

This is why paying attention to all the action in every hand (yes, even those you folded) is so important. Paying attention to opponents preflop range in different positions and preflop action should give you a feel for what they may be playing. Know what they tend to do after the flop when faced with a bet or raise is important as well.

Way too many scenarios to list a general guide., but following the action will help you to make better decisions.

#17

November 5th, 2018, 1:18 PM

NHequalsFU

Poker at: ACR

Game: 8-Game

Posts: 826

If you miss ask yourself a few questions.

How many opponents saw the flop? This will affect your line.
Does this flop look favorable for my opponents range or mine? This will affect your line.
How do my opponents play post flop? This will affect your line.

Different variables go into how you should approach whiffing on the flop.

If you are against passive opponents you can lead on and then slow down if they continue.
Against aggressive or calling stations you may want to play more passively. If the flop is very wet be careful but if it is dry bluffing may work better.

Play to what you think your opponent thinks you have.

#18

November 5th, 2018, 5:48 PM

TeUnit

Game: holdem, sng,

Posts: 2,436

re: Poker & Any tips when not hitting the flop?

The best tip for when you miss the flop, is to know the villans ie can you stab at the flop, can you float the flop, or can you check raise the villan. You should always have a plan on what to do if you hit or what to do if you miss.

#19

November 5th, 2018, 11:09 PM

duson

Posts: 241

You consider what your hand can become if the right cards come. If you can hit a straight or a flush, or if you have high cards and the boards low, etc. Check and see what the table does, if someone bets just think about is it worth paying that much to see the next card because I have a hand that can become something worth betting.

#20

November 5th, 2018, 11:39 PM

Poker_Mike

Posts: 671

Originally Posted by NHequalsFU

If you miss ask yourself a few questions.

How many opponents saw the flop? This will affect your line.
Does this flop look favorable for my opponents range or mine? This will affect your line.
How do my opponents play post flop? This will affect your line.

Different variables go into how you should approach whiffing on the flop.

If you are against passive opponents you can lead on and then slow down if they continue.
Against aggressive or calling stations you may want to play more passively. If the flop is very wet be careful but if it is dry bluffing may work better.

Play to what you think your opponent thinks you have.

YES...yes...yes!

If you raised with a premium hand preflop then there is a very good chance that you are still good on the flop. So I would bet for value and to help define my opponent's holdings.

If they check to you then you should bet.

Great question OP.

Good luck !

#21

November 6th, 2018, 10:41 PM

619Leafs

Poker at: 888 Poker

Game: Hold'em

Posts: 700

Originally Posted by Chewfulitsch

I'm having trouble playing when I don't hit the flop and have some high unpaired cards or Ace plus low suited card. Usually I enter pots with a raise and C bet but scare cards make me fold too easily. It looks so easy when pros do it or someone in the tutorial explains it but it's different in game. How should I approach it? I know that it's all about outs and pot odds, statistics, hand ranges and all that. If I always fold too easily then people just re raise me more often.

I have had that problem as well because if I bet, I could get raised and if I don't bet its difficult to call a sizeable bet.

How I approach this is make your usual raise and try to narrow it to a heads up situation. Assess the flop because a big part of your decision is the flop. Try to put your opponent on a hand and stick with that plan. I was surprised when I started doing that it helped to make decision more clear. It may not win more however it will save you a lot of money.

#22

November 7th, 2018, 4:01 AM

ThinkIllcallUwitha5

Posts: 92

You shouldn't be in as many hands in the first place, as someone else said. Once you're in and you don't hit the flop, all you can do is fold. It hurts to lose those chips already placed in, but that's why you're more selective with your hands.

#23

November 7th, 2018, 6:12 AM

ScooperNova

Poker at: ACR

Game: PLO

Posts: 1,429

A knee jerk reaction to the title of this thread is to suggest folding. To go a little deeper, I would suggest to play very tight opening hands, and folding big hands in very early position preflop (AJ, AQ, 1010) when facing 4-10 BB bets nearly every preflop. Find your spots and when you connect on the flop, let them know about it with huge raises. Consider playing super strong holdings ever more aggressively than normal, especailly preflop and on the flop.

#24

November 7th, 2018, 8:18 AM

Fahrenheit451

Online Poker at: 888

Game: holdem

Posts: 194

re: Poker & Any tips when not hitting the flop?

There was a book, How to win holdem with any two cards, any time, every hand.
Something like that. Your question was answered there in great detail.

#25

November 8th, 2018, 7:31 PM

Ovuvuevuevue

Poker at: Pokerstars

Game: NLHE

Posts: 176

Fold pre and play tighter

If you go in with mediocre hands then you will get mediocre odds. That's why it's important to play the best hands only. When you're more skilled and can read your opponents and understand more math then you can loosen up and take advantage of your opponents' mistakes.

#26

November 8th, 2018, 9:49 PM

JBGoode

Online Poker at: GlobalPoker

Game: PLO Hi/Lo

Posts: 300

First I was suggest betting small on the dry unconnected boards where you have overs and backdoor draws. and betting big with your hands that offer open ended, and pairs with good kickers.... If you get called, good. They got a piece of it too, and you are still drawing to something stronger.... If the turn card is a scare card that could have completed a draw for most of your range bet big on the turn. If not check on concede if OOP. If your IP, and the scare card gets checked to you Fire almost all the time... if you get a call, or they raise you, you can still get away.... Then just play the river as if you feel like you have it or not, or if the River card is really scary based off the story that was told you can bluff at it....

Now if the boar is wet, connected, or high pair. you pretty much play this straight up, betting 2/3s the pot if you decide to bet... Once again if you get called you decide if you got stronger on the turn, or weaker.... IP normally if its checked to you on the turn you want to again play this straight up, if you checked the flop to an aggressor, and are OOP, your looking to check raise with your made hands like top end straights, full house and A or K high flushes.... good hands like 2 pair, top pair good kicker your looking to bet if the flop was checked through... everything else just depends on the action on the flop and if you think you can get a better hand to fold.... as above the river should be played straight up, or if your story you told based off action previous checks out....

a lot of this comes with studying off the table...I promise if you go back and watch your hands, and ask yourself what was the best thing to do here 9 times out of 10 you will realize your mistakes.... and when you don't there are a lot of people out there willing to take a look at it and go over it with you....

#27

November 8th, 2018, 9:58 PM

bstest

Poker at: ACR

Game: Holdem

Posts: 389

Based on what you said, my strategy right or wrong, is that if you miss the flop, stop putting money after a wild hope. You probably have more to lose than gain in the single hand, and it will affect your stack size for the rest of the game. I say think long.