However, the 41-year-old is also aware of the need to keep learning in his current backroom roles.

"But it's not the be all and end all. People get obsessed with titles," he said.

"I think when you're a secure person, you kind of get into an environment that you're happy with, that you know that you can add value to and that's what's happening with the Crusaders.

"The Crusaders doesn't have to be a stepping stone to anything. It's one of the best clubs in the world and it's a great club to work at. And sure, I'm not the boss but I have a good role and a role that I feel challenged in, not alone by the staff, but by the players and that's the biggest test I think.

"The players will know when their coach isn't giving them the direction and these are good All Blacks you're talking about."

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