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on this thread! this thread is the reason I join the Forum O N i have a Bimmer.
but just a few ?s i drive an 89 bmw 535i what would be the first step i should take toward tuning my beast . or a short list of mods would help two

Great thread. My m50 NV is under the knife right now getting VAC's stage 1.5 head upgrade/w 6mm valve stem conversion, 268/257 cams, 24lb injectors and a tune from miller's W.A.R chip. I will still be running stock air filter and maf, also running stock exhaust mani for now but will try to swap s50 mani if i come across one. I am new to this forum and will start a build thread or just post some results when everything is complete and running.

on this thread! this thread is the reason I join the Forum O N i have a Bimmer.
but just a few ?s i drive an 89 bmw 535i what would be the first step i should take toward tuning my beast . or a short list of mods would help two

First things first. Always remember.

Maintenance before performance. If you can make a maintenance upgrade that's good too.

Can't stress that enough. Easiest and best bang for your buck is a performance chip. EAT chips or Comforti chips are favored for the m30b35.

Going with a sportier suspension wouldn't hurt either.
Koni adjustable struts and shocks are becoming more favored than the traditional Bilstein upgrade.
For Bilstein's tend to be harsh up front. As well, Konis are cheaper and can be adjusted to suit the drivers ideal ride.

Obviously the ultimate combination of the two are coilovers. Nex, BC, KIDO, K-Sport, Ground Control, Lowtec, KW, Bilstein, Eibachall make coilovers for the e34 chassis.
The majority of coilover systems will need some type of strut modification to you front strut housings.
Some companies offer this modification service for a fee.
Some don't offer to do the work. Meaning you or a shop will have to perform the modification.

Braking is area where the e34 can upgrade without complete aftermarket setups.
The biggest calipers we can use without going aftermarket are e31 850i 4 piston or E24 4 piston front calipers and 540 rear calipers.
The bias matches up well.
It may require a change in your brake booster system but for the most part it is plug and play.

We can also use brembo front calipers from a Porsche 996 non turbo with e36 aftermarket brackets.
However the brackets IIRC will need to be flipped for it to work properly.

From there you can go in any direction. NA or FI

Miller performance cars makes a MAF and chip which will give you modest gains in RWHP, Torque, and help you m30 breath better.
But it will set you back about 700 bucks (depending on desired goal)

You can also go with a standalone system like DTA,AEM, VEMS or Megasquirt.
Most who go this route are looking for Force induction gains or have some type of NA swap.

Engine swaps are not as common for m30 owners as for m20 or m50 owners.
The most common M30 swap is a auto to manual swap.
There are plenty out there to research.

Cams are a good performance upgrade which will give nice gains.
However you'll achieve more dramatic change intergrating a well built turbo system. Word of advise on this.

There are plenty of options out there for Turbo kits.TCD or TurboCharging Dynamics is the favored.
They offer the best options for turnkey M30 turbo kits.
However if yu can also a setup together from a e23 or e32 745 turbo car.
These aren't the most efficient kits but they work with success.
You can pretty much get everything you need rather cheap and have your car running boost after some small changes.

Lastly, if your looking for hp gains.
Have a goal, do your research, and make a realistic budget for your build.
Most FI setups will set you back at least 2500.
My setup tally is currently at 2134 with a few little things needed to be done.

No they are out there. Most just don't go that route.
For our cars they are considered "Hot"air intakes for they take in more hot air than cold.
The air boxes are proven to be the best suited for the e34.
Only most FI setup see gains from a CAI.
Then again most FI setups have some type of intercooler incorporated inthe intake piping.
If you want better intake air flow go with a drop in K&N filter.
As an option you also can remove your right high beam and your air flow will increase.

No they are out there. Most just don't go that route.
For our cars they are considered "Hot"air intakes for they take in more hot air than cold. The air boxes are proven to be the best suited for the e34.
Only most FI setup see gains from a CAI.
Then again most FI setups have some type of intercooler incorporated inthe intake piping. If you want better intake air flow go with a drop in K&N filter.
As an option you also can remove your right high beam and your air flow will increase.

not quite true, but bang for buck yes you are right. a proper CAI for the E34 needs to be down below the valance etc

Rob Levinson from UUC Motorwerks says that "it is really doing every E34 owner a disservice for three reasons:
• First, conclusive tests from independent labs show that K&N filters, no matter how well-oiled and cleaned, let through huge amounts of large particulate that damages engines. Oil analysis shows 5x as much silicate contamination. Additionally, the oil from these filters tends to muck up the MAF and cause an engine-damaging lean-run condition.
• Second, an open element filter like that sucks in hot underhood air and subjects the filter to "fan wash", the swirl that creates a vacuum effect. On the E36 M3, we measure a 15hp loss from open cone filters.
• Third, the E34 airbox is designed with an integral velocity-stack style venturi at the opening. Running one of these engines on a dyno, you can cause a 5hp drop just from putting your finger on the stack lip. Removing that airbox undoes a lot of good BMW engineering. Yes, these filters make a "really cool" noise... but noise does not equal power. Stick with a stock paper element in the factory airbox, you're not getting any more power with a K&N garbage-filter, just damaging your motor."

Rob Levinson from UUC Motorwerks says that "it is really doing every E34 owner a disservice for three reasons:
• First, conclusive tests from independent labs show that K&N filters, no matter how well-oiled and cleaned, let through huge amounts of large particulate that damages engines. Oil analysis shows 5x as much silicate contamination. Additionally, the oil from these filters tends to muck up the MAF and cause an engine-damaging lean-run condition.
• Second, an open element filter like that sucks in hot underhood air and subjects the filter to "fan wash", the swirl that creates a vacuum effect. On the E36 M3, we measure a 15hp loss from open cone filters.
• Third, the E34 airbox is designed with an integral velocity-stack style venturi at the opening. Running one of these engines on a dyno, you can cause a 5hp drop just from putting your finger on the stack lip. Removing that airbox undoes a lot of good BMW engineering. Yes, these filters make a "really cool" noise... but noise does not equal power. Stick with a stock paper element in the factory airbox, you're not getting any more power with a K&N garbage-filter, just damaging your motor."

The information is really old. Proper CAI setup will have a plate blocking off engine heat. While in high temperature weather in 540I setup stock will be better. In 'normal' or cold weather conditions a CAI setup will be superior on M60B40.

Regarding particle, it's all bull**** and neither of the party above did testing. Properly lubricated K&N filter does not saturate oil nor does it damage the engine. I ran K&N setup for few years and my engine is 100% leak down wise and has clean top and bottom end.

If we were talking hondas or even lsx monster swaps I'd agree with your point.

There are a few well respected tuners and contibutors to the community if not the e34 model.
Rob Levinson is a respected guy and one of the reasons we have products like DSSR, EVO3, etc.
So to say "This information is really old or "it's all bull**** and neither of the party above did testing"
Is kind of like pissing in the wind.
For these cars are... really old cars. That technology hasn't changed in 17 years. Just been improved for fuel efficency.
UUC designs products for our cars.
I am sure if they felt the need to produce a CAI for our NA cars they would have long ago... But they didn't feel it was necessary.

There are countless threads on various forums on this subject on the internet.
Start this debate over in Bimmerforums and see how far you get before a flame war commence.

There are no real gains using a CAI on a e34 which has not been modified to some extent or isn't utilizing it for FI applications.
That's not heresay. It's proven.

Insult to injury, due to this, there are owners who remove the High beam just to gain more air into the velocity stack on the box get the engine breathing better.
A CAI doesn't have nor act like a velocity stack. It pulls air from multiple sources some cold some hot... mostly hot.

So how can you honestly compare it.
A chamber with a velocity stack which sources air directly from the outside
to a open pipe with a cone filter on it drawing hot, warm and some cold air from inside the engine bay.

Which one do you think will be more beneficial to the engine?

The OEM Box is more than efficient to handle the breathing capability of a NA e34.

Now if you want better flowing. Go with a Maf, chiptuning or standalone ecu like Megaquirt which use a IAT sensor.( allows you to remove the AFM for m30 and M20 cars) ,
DTA, VEMS and such. That the proper way to see the gains you think the a CAI gives you.

The only real gain using a CAI on our cars is in exhaust note and engine bay bling.

I have talked to Rob Levinson and he is a very smart dude but a quote in e-mail does not really mean anything.

The airbox in 540I is velocity stack you are right but if you talk about performance I have gotten better HP (small gain 3-5hp but better) on CAI with block off plate (K&N based).

The only thing that was better about stock unit is it was more consistant while CAI suffered from some heat soak but this was on a 95+ day in NYC.

And like i mentioned before my oil and engine are 100% after running K&N so that claim of 'particles' is just that a claim. Think about it.. those particles stay on the filter 99.99% of the time and when they do fly they are so small that with current oil nothing will ever be damaged.

I have talked to Rob Levinson and he is a very smart dude but a quote in e-mail does not really mean anything.

The airbox in 540I is velocity stack you are right but if you talk about performance I have gotten better HP (small gain 3-5hp but better) on CAI with block off plate (K&N based).

The only thing that was better about stock unit is it was more consistant while CAI suffered from some heat soak but this was on a 95+ day in NYC.

And like i mentioned before my oil and engine are 100% after running K&N so that claim of 'particles' is just that a claim. Think about it.. those particles stay on the filter 99.99% of the time and when they do fly they are so small that with current oil nothing will ever be damaged.

That's the point.
It's about consistant, reliable horsepower.

FI applications use them for they have a intercooler within the intake plumbing to bring the temps down.
If your running it stock with nothing to cool that air mass.
The result can be a drop in HP or something worse over time.

Yes you can make a barrier to help cool the environment in which the CAI pulls air from.
However your still pulling in a heated air mass.
You know this from your statement about heat soak.
All CAIs are prone to heat soak. For they don't pull direct cool air.
They pull in mostly hot air.
Thus coining the name "hot air intake"

The stock box pulls in fresh cooler air through the velocity stack more direct with minimal hot air exposure.
The Cooler mass of air enters the intake manifold + greater charge = more power.
So even academically that doesn't make sense on a NA e34.

Your theory would work but you would have to route the end of the intake to the outside of the car.
The best place would be behind the bumper.
However you'll have another issue.
For your going to pick up all types of crap kicked up from the road.
Something you really don't want.

If you still have the stock box.
Take your car to a dyno. Do one run with the box.
The next with the CAI.
Don't sandbag go all out.
I can bet your gains would be greater with the box.

Lastly you and i don't want to leave the impression that any old CAI will work.
Not everything at pepboys is made for our cars.
To allude to it could cause someone catastrophic failure and a bunch of money.

So to sum this all up.

Unless your e34 is turbo or supercharged.
Running a CAI is not beneficial to gains which can be gotten elsewhere.
As well they can possibly damage your car pulling in heated air for All CAIs are prone to heat soak.
The stock box is more than efficient for reliable and consistant power.
You may not get that cool exhaust note.
But that extra 25-100+ dollars can be used to by that chip you've been wanting.

Unless your e34 is turbo or supercharged.
Running a CAI is not beneficial to gains which can be gotten elsewhere.
As well they can possibly damage your car pulling in heated air for All CAIs are prone to heat soak.
The stock box is more than efficient for reliable and consistant power.
You may not get that cool exhaust note.
But that extra 25-100+ dollars can be used to by that chip you've been wanting.

So the velocity stack created by the stock air box is better than a cold air intake. Got it.

How about the non CAI knn filter ? The one that goes right in the stock air box instead of the stock paper filter ? Would it lead to HP gains ? Is the oiling really necessary ?

Unless your e34 is turbo or supercharged.
Running a CAI is not beneficial to gains which can be gotten elsewhere.
As well they can possibly damage your car pulling in heated air for All CAIs are prone to heat soak.
The stock box is more than efficient for reliable and consistant power.
You may not get that cool exhaust note.
But that extra 25-100+ dollars can be used to by that chip you've been wanting.

* If you are running the car hard in hot/humid conditions.

E34 540I will benefit from CAI in normal conditions, if you going to red line it in all gears in humid weather within 15 minutes you will see some minor performance de-gration over x number of pulls FASTER then you would see on stock air box that this car comes with.

I never said CAI dipped below stock air intake in those pulls, but it was definitely not as consistent with every pull.

The gains from this setup are worth $$$, if you already have chip/lsd/exaust on this engine this is the way to go for extra HP as there are pretty much no other options.

K&N with block off plate (I'm running Bavarian Auto) setup is something I would recommend and it does give you more power.

No damage what so ever, both top and low end look brand new and leakdown tests are 100%.

So the velocity stack created by the stock air box is better than a cold air intake. Got it.

How about the non CAI knn filter ? The one that goes right in the stock air box instead of the stock paper filter ? Would it lead to HP gains ? Is the oiling really necessary ?

KNN drop ins work well.

If you experienced again from a CAI. Cool.

What I haven't stated is I have a CAI on my 535i/5.
my 535i/5 is chipped, 24# injectors, custom reso delete exhaust and it has a stock 3.46lsd.
The car came with the CAI when bought.
My previous 535i/5 had a stock box.

The only noticable difference between the 2 was the exhaust note. Any gains I've gotten aren't contributed to the CAI. For my exhaust is more aggressive.

To make this more interesting and current I borrowed a box from a friend who was parting his 535i.
Installed it and ran it in daily situations (stop and go, highway 50-65ish+).
Again the only difference was exhaust note.

Now again if you got better performance out it cool.
Get us some dyno numbers to compare the 2.
For I'm all for new data.
I just don't want people to run to their local auto parts store and pickup something that
a.) isn't designed for our cars
b.) doesn't change the rwhp enough to be a significant change.

Perhaps you could add here that, due to a recent discussion, it has been proven that engine flushes of all kinds being sold and other bootleg flushes such as diesel, while being harmless to an engine when used as directed, do not, in fact, create much of a benefit to either justify the cost or the added time required to do the flush.

This is because :

1. If you run brand name fully synthetic oil, and
2. Change your oil and filter at the recommended intervals.

...no matter how high the mileage of the engine, it will be mostly free of sludge. What little that is left is is too little to make a difference to either the engine's internals or its performance, when it is removed by a flushing solvent.

Perhaps the only time when it is worthwhile to flush an engine would be at your first service interval after you've bought that car, since you don't want to assume that the po (previous owner) has been changing the oil whenever he should and has been using premium brands such as LiquiMoly and Mobil1. when he held onto the car. Thereafter, there would be no need, assuming of course that you're going to do your part henceforth.