I think I found out what's going on --- I'm using the pvp sets and apparently, the pvp power does affect the scale of some spells in PVE AND they changed my static strength trinkets into on use trinkets, therefore set #7 is not viable anymore...

FFFUUUU

ExampleCrusader Strike, Censure and Seal of Truth for SET 6 and SET 7 is about the same (~3153, ~4581, ~287) but my Eternal Flames are different for both sets; the difference being about 2466 PVP Power.

Klaudandus wrote:I think I found out what's going on --- I'm using the pvp sets and apparently, the pvp power does affect the scale of some spells in PVE AND they changed my static strength trinkets into on use trinkets, therefore set #7 is not viable anymore...

FFFUUUU

ExampleCrusader Strike, Censure and Seal of Truth for SET 6 and SET 7 is about the same (~3153, ~4581, ~287) but my Eternal Flames are different for both sets; the difference being about 2466 PVP Power.

Please advice on how to proceed

Basically, ignore PVP gear entirely. If that means we only have 6 sets to work from, that's fine. I'd just toss all PvP gear for testing purposes.

If you have to adjust the sets, that's fine, we don't need to use the same AP values as previous builds. If you've already taken data, just give me the PvP power values too.

Actually, that may be something to check. If PVP power gives us a healing benefit, and it's free itemization, we might be inclined to wear PvP gear. So it'd be good to know how PvP gear affects healing.

all my testing gear is pvp, it allowed me to have the most str per piece of gear more often than not, which was useful considering that the only thing i log into the beta for is get the logs, i have no access to any other gear since i havent had time to do any dungeons, dailies nor raids...

For damage-dealing abilities, that should be fine. Anything that heals, though, will probably be skewed by it. Which means I either need to know how much PvP power you have in each gear set, or we need to use completely different gear sets devoid of PvP gear for heal testing.

Q:Confirmed that other abilities, like Light's Hammer is not affected by PVP Power -- but Eternal Flame is.

Still would like a confirmation on whether this is a bug or not.

A:It sounds like a bug, but to be clear, PvP Power should do nothing for your healing in a dungeon or raid. When healing someone in a BG, Arena or in the outdoor world, PvP Power should increase your healing. The only exceptions are percent based heals, which does not include Eternal Flame or Light of Dawn. Eternal Flame should work almost exactly like Word of Glory, and I'm not sure what could account for a difference.

Q:Prot paladin DPS relative to other tanks should be examined. Most changes to ret, and some changes to holy, affect Protection Paladins directly. EDIT: The bugfix to Eternal Flame make it somewhat unattractive to Protection. I'm a little concerned prot is going to gravitate towards Sacred Shield exclusively, especially because we have better ways to spend our Holy Power.

A:Prot paladin DPS is in a good place for us internally. The Ret nerfs didn't seem to drop Prot down below other tanks. Eternal Flame should feel like a slightly better Word of Glory for Prot, which is definitely a spell you do want to use. You should be able to figure out if the absorb over time from Sacred Shield provides as much defensive benefit as the hot from Eternal Flame.

Was still listed on the first page, so I thought I'd check it quickly:

Test #37: Sanctity of Battle

Level: any Gear: naked Target: none Goal: find a friend that can supply the 5% spell haste raid buff. Compare the tooltip of Crusader Strike with and without the buff active. Report: Any change to the CS cooldown due to the buff.

No change in cooldown for crusader strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield et. al. when a moonkin druid joined my group. Cooldown of Crusader Strike and HotR remained at 4.5 seconds.

This tells us two things:1) the base heal value of WoG is off by around 337 damage compared to the tooltip. The max seems off by 364 as well from other fits.2) PvP power could add healing linearly (like AP) or multiplicatively (as in, X pvp power increases WoG by Y%).

To discriminate between the two potential scalings, we need WoG data from gear sets 6A-6G. No need to repeat that for EF, we can reasonably assume the scaling function is similar between the two (i.e. EF isn't linear if WoG is %-based).

Curiously, the %-based scaling fit works better here. Though again, both are so close that it's really not possible to conclusively say which is correct. That said, compare this to the offensively-cast fits:

Now, it's entirely possible that the spell has different PvP power scaling for each version. However, the fact that the percentage-based version gives nearly the same conversion factor (219-257 PvP power per 1% healing increase) is suspicious. Especially since we got the same rough conversion factor from WoG:

That explains where the extra base heal on WoG was coming from. EF's base heal and WoG share the exact same formula now: (4030+0.377*SP) per holy power. WoG's tooltip just hasn't been updated to reflect that buff. EF simply adds the HoT.

So again, EF's HoT component is consistent with (391+0.045*SP) and the newly-discovered PvP power scaling (1% per every ~260 PvP Power).

The only thing that remains at this point, I think, is to nail down the exact scaling factor more exactly. It might be faster to just ask the Devs for that in the beta thread, but I'll see what I can do in the meantime.

Don't bother, I think we're pretty well set on L90 talents now. I'm mostly interested in nailing down the PvP power scaling factor, and convincing myself that EF and WoG both have the same base heal formula.

Also, for future reference: when putting in the tick values for EF, just give me the min. Putting in a one-point range screws up my sophisticated "copy from spreadsheet and paste into MATLAB" data entry technique (because "405-406" turns into "-1")

Given that the tick is a fixed amount, that gives us our best estimate of the true value (all of the other data sets are subject to variances in the min and max values). We can comfortably say that the PvP power scale factor is between 265.3 and 266.3, with a best estimate of 265.8.

In other words, every 265.8 PvP power increases the effectiveness of your healing by 1%.

Pyrea wrote:No change in cooldown for crusader strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield et. al. when a moonkin druid joined my group. Cooldown of Crusader Strike and HotR remained at 4.5 seconds.