And to the mods on this forum: The attitude of many on this forum is becoming the norm more often than the exception. maybe the admins need to have a serious look at what a welcoming and inclusive community is and should be. The baiting, trolling and general "waving it about and comparing sizes" crap is becoming sickening to witness. Pull your (insert abusive term for number 2's here) together before BNA's reputation sinks any further than it already has with many, and it really has.Nobody deserves the rubbish that Supera has had to put u with in this thread for what genuinely seemed an honest question by a noob.

supera wrote:perhaps because I'm new to cycling i'm not so entrenched in this "all cyclists are completely pure and obey road rules" mindset - I know that they don't.

At no stage have I suggested all cyclists obey all road rules. In fact I happily admit that I sometime ignore road rules. However at no stage have you established this is a problem.

supera wrote:1. you'll note that I said nothing about "buying" access to the road. so it's a poor start to a post when you didn't comprehend the central point of my proposal.

Well you suggested that accountability and registration is needed to use the road yet have failed to establish why,

supera wrote:2. who are pedestrians hurting when they cross the road on a red light? they're the bottom of the road user food chain. we might be smaller than a car, but we can still hurt a pedestrian if we run into them. what you're essentially saying is that, while we moan about inconsiderate drivers, and expect them to be hit with the full force of the law if they interfere with us in our space - a cyclist who does the same thing to a pedestrian shouldn't be identified, fined, or punished. do you not see how hypocritical that makes you?

Hmmmm.... There really isn't any basis for your claim that cyclists are hurting pedestrians. Pedestrians are a bigger danger towards pedestrians!

supera wrote:3. recourse for breaking road rules! if a driver goes through a red light they'll eventually get caught by a camera. for other things they're identifiable (which is the whole point of the suggestion) by number plate. if i'm riding on a pedestrian footpath when there's a bike lane on the other side of the nature strip and i hit someone before riding off, why shouldn't a witness be able to identify me? unfortunately for my victim, "giant guy on a Giant bike" describes about 5000 riders in Canberra.

Pedestrians getting hit an run by bicycles is hardly a common event. Pedestrians getting assaulted is far more common. Why no register pedestrians.

supera wrote:i'll give you one this morning - main road in canberra, bike lane on the side of the road that the bus has to pull into. the rule, as it was explained to me by the guy at the bike shop a couple of weeks ago, is to wait behind the bus.

That is not a road rule.

supera wrote:5. if a driver breaks the law, I expect them to be fined. it should be no different for other road users. but in any case

Well 99% of the time reality will fail to meet your expectation.

supera wrote:but they didn't say hello. they started ragging on me for being slow ("hurry up porky" is so mature) and then continued to rag on me as they over took me ("how the f did YOU get a bike to hold you?!"). for someone who had owned his bike for 3 days, it was about the most horrible experience that I could've imagined at that particular point in time. i'd had my bike 3 days, it took me another 3 days to want to go and ride on the road again. and it hasn't been as fun as it was in the first 3 days.

it's upsetting to even recount it. it upset me because they maliciously took my fun for no reason. it upset me because i spent a lot of money that i didn't really have for that fun. and it particularly upset me because i spent all that money hoping that this was a community that i might be able to get involved in, and my first experience with that community was awful.

That is a disgraceful way to behave. There are a$$hats on all modes of transport.

I'm sorry if you have interpreted strong debate with an attack on you personally. You came into this thread with strong and controversial comments. I have attacked your arguments, and your opinions regarding the issue. I don't believe there have been any personal comments.

supera wrote:[n. we might be smaller than a car, but we can still hurt a pedestrian if we run into them.

Got news for you lad. . It will hurt you as well. And in all likelihood worse than the pedestrian. Its quite unlikely you will badly injure them and just ride away.

supera wrote:3. recourse for breaking road rules! if a driver goes through a red light they'll eventually get caught by a camera.

So those are the intersections drivers stop at.. the ones with cameras.

nding my own business, and having a friggen ball. was absolutely loving it. i must've looked ridiculous riding along with this stupid big grin on my face. (and my friends would tell you that I'm a particularly bubbly personality) what i didn't look like was a cyclist - i was wearing cheap lightweight "athletic shorts", an American football jersey, an old pair of sneakers and a pair of service station sunglasses.

a couple of cyclists, with proper road bikes (i ride a hybrid) and lycra and a lot more speed and experience than me came up behind me. instead of going around me, they started following me (I promise you I wasn't going fast enough for anyone to be slipstreaming off me)

they didn't go around me, so i was expecting that they were going to say hello. (perhaps I was being naive because of the insane amount of fun that i was having)

but they didn't say hello. they started ragging on me for being slow ("hurry up porky" is so mature) and then continued to rag on me as they over took me ("how the f did YOU get a bike to hold you?!"). for someone who had owned his bike for 3 days, it was about the most horrible experience that I could've imagined at that particular point in time. i'd had my bike 3 days, it took me another 3 days to want to go and ride on the road again. and it hasn't been as fun as it was in the first 3 days.

it's upsetting to even recount it. it upset me because they maliciously took my fun for no reason. it upset me because i spent a lot of money that i didn't really have for that fun. and it particularly upset me because i spent all that money hoping that this was a community that i might be able to get involved in, and my first experience with that community was awful.

but i hoped that these guys were the arrogant ones who are probably the 'bad eggs' that i refer to on the road. i had hoped that not all 'cyclists' were like that - which is why i joined this forum. i wanted to meet the friendly cycling community.

but from the responses I've received so far for daring to offer an opinion and ask a question, most of you are the same hypocritical, arrogant douchebags that wrecked my first week in my new hobby.

That so totally sux. Was I you I would train my ass off and kick their butt. I know the type but its not remotely everyone.

A while ago I got revenge for you... sorta. I,ll tell you the story and you can plot your version of revenge. I built up a mixte frame (which is a girls frame) for a friend as a pub bike. A pub bike is supposed to be rideable enough but must look like junk so that it can survive locked up at a pub. So I am on this rusty scabrous girls bike with 27 inch wheels and downtube shifters. That rode quite well. I decided to ride it over to her place. Wearing shorts and a t shirt and runners. So here I am a middle aged bloke.. riding up the hill in Whitehorse road... and I overtake Mr very nice Cannondale in full team kit. on my girls bike. ANd he is gasping for breath and trying to totally ignore me.... While I chatter away at him.. "Gday... nice day for a ride... how ya going mate" He did not look comfortable and did not say a word. I was so enjoying it. Hard to be a macho road warrior when you are all image. I eventually rode away from him up the hill.

Bicycles are not heavy machinery that regularly kill people so rego is totally unnecessary. I've seen motorbikes intentionally hit cars in the city and no one seems to get their plates. Imagine trying to read a bicycle rego plate! If you want this accountability lets register smokers so I can report them for dropping their ciggie butts, after all that is 50% of all litter. In my area I would also like to see dog owners wear a rego plate, imagine if I spoke to my local member and said a small minority of owners do not clean up after their dogs, can we get them to register and wear a plate??? Probably have a giggle and get me taken out by security. I came within a whisker of serious injury/death when a ped ran a red light in Sydney, but I accept peds will never be registered, nor do they really need to. In the event there is an accident with bike/ped and it is half serious people tend to stop and stick around. Most of the hit and runs I hear about are cars on bikes/peds and often they are solved by the police.

I have been done for running a red light, $60, or less than 2 weekly train tickets, as I explained to the young copper I regularly run red lights because I often ride before and after normal humans are awake and my heaps sick carbon fibre road bike often does not trigger the lights. Eventually when we get more and more cyclists and people understand that we are not a danger, in fact we are the opposite to danger, we can progress like some European (cool) countries and legally run red lights.

The idiots who had a go at you probably do not even race let alone follow a proper training programme, as such you should act they they do not exist. But seriously did you get any information from their cycling kit? Might be a shop or club logo or name?? Most bunches will have at least one guy in club kit or shop kit.... I'd post it straight to their facebook page and contact the club/shop. Cyclists abusing a fellow cyclist is not on.

Keep posting your thoughts as and when you feel like it. Not everyone agrees with everyone on here, thankfully.

I provided an example of a friend having a wrist broken by a cyclist who didn't stop.

I provided an example with the bus that I've been told is illegal - if it's not, it's certainly ignorant and dangerous.

I provided the safety reason of being able to identify a rider not carrying Id (which I don't normally, but will be having thought about during this argument).

I think the notion that identification could quell some road rage was discarded too quickly.

and I spoke at length from the perspective of someone who is primarily a driver, and a beginner cyclist - if we want respect on the road, we need to be accountable to the same standards as other road users.

tell me again about how I didn't establish a need?

thanks trying to cheer me up percrime, although getting awesome and turning into one of those douchebags isn't what I want.

I think if I had my time again I'd regain my pride by smacking one of them in the mouth and watching them either fall off or bolt away.

wasn't a "bunch", it was just 2 guys. all I recognized was one of them wearing an old CSC kit.

The 2nd Womble wrote:And to the mods on this forum: The attitude of many on this forum is becoming the norm more often than the exception. maybe the admins need to have a serious look at what a welcoming and inclusive community is and should be. The baiting, trolling and general "waving it about and comparing sizes" crap is becoming sickening to witness. Pull your (insert abusive term for number 2's here) together before BNA's reputation sinks any further than it already has with many, and it really has.Nobody deserves the rubbish that Supera has had to put u with in this thread for what genuinely seemed an honest question by a noob.

I hope this isn't directed at me, all I did was try to respond and explain why it didn't make sense to me. I haven't really seen anything that bad in this thread directed at supera really, maybe I missed something.

The guys who were teasing him on the road on the other hand were not very nice people it seems.

supera wrote:thanks trying to cheer me up percrime, although getting awesome and turning into one of those douchebags isn't what I want.

Oh mate.. me in baggy shorts and a old cycle t shirt on a girls bike is less than awesome. But seriously some guys are right up themselves. They usually have a dark colored BMW. But some of em ride bicycles.

Like I said while it is possible to hit a ped and escape uninjured..usually you will be hurt more than the ped. And as you will ride more you realise that while as a cyclist you increasingly expect peds to walk in front of you.... peds generally lack awareness of cyclists. Even when walking in a bike lane on a road.

Registration is not a go. Its been costed by many countries. It cannot be made to work. End of story really.

Don't worry supera. Some people on here are very "passionate" in what they believe in. So passionate in fact that they take offence when others don't agree. There are many "arguments" like this on many other topics such as running red lights, MHL rego etc. I've learnt that it's just best to stay clear of these threads.

In reference to this

supera wrote:I provided an example of a friend having a wrist broken by a cyclist who didn't stop.

It is more people's morals that need to change not rego. If the guy was a good guy he would have stopped to help. Substitute your example with a car, motorbike or pedestrian and would still be the same scenario. The vehicle/person would have run over your friend and they would have sped off. There would have been no way anyone could have gotten pen and paper out while lying down on the ground and then manage to write down the rego of the vehicle.

There is also many other implications. Should it be that kids (I think I would classify as one?) and even the weekend warriors or once a month cyclists have to register their bikes? I don't think rego for bikes would work well.

I provided an example of a friend having a wrist broken by a cyclist who didn't stop.

I provided an example with the bus that I've been told is illegal - if it's not, it's certainly ignorant and dangerous.

I provided the safety reason of being able to identify a rider not carrying Id (which I don't normally, but will be having thought about during this argument).

I can relate many stories of cars hitting and running cyclists with the drivers never being held to account. One incident was me a few years ago and a driver of a van intentionally running me into the gutter, no point looking for the rego I was to busy trying to save myself. There was also the case of a stubby being thrown at our bunch as a vehicle going past at 100km/h. Another incident more recently was a driver hitting a cyclist here in Waniassa in Oct and leaving him for dead on the side of the road, or even the story in the Canberra times the other week about a car crossing to the other side of the road to intimidate and threaten a bunch of the elite girls. I will stop there as it is too depressing.

All these incidents the drivers had rego and yet were not called to speak up about their actions.

As for ID most people do carry it anyway, your point there is moot.

As for your posting I have serious lack of faith that you are anything but a troll here to try and stir and your whole façade is quite fairy tale.

I provided an example of a friend having a wrist broken by a cyclist who didn't stop.

I provided an example with the bus that I've been told is illegal - if it's not, it's certainly ignorant and dangerous.

I provided the safety reason of being able to identify a rider not carrying Id (which I don't normally, but will be having thought about during this argument).

I can relate many stories of cars hitting and running cyclists with the drivers never being held to account. One incident was me a few years ago and a driver of a van intentionally running me into the gutter, no point looking for the rego I was to busy trying to save myself. There was also the case of a stubby being thrown at our bunch as a vehicle going past at 100km/h. Another incident more recently was a driver hitting a cyclist here in Waniassa in Oct and leaving him for dead on the side of the road, or even the story in the Canberra times the other week about a car crossing to the other side of the road to intimidate and threaten a bunch of the elite girls. I will stop there as it is too depressing.

All these incidents the drivers had rego and yet were not called to speak up about their actions.

As for ID most people do carry it anyway, your point there is moot.

As for your posting I have serious lack of faith that you are anything but a troll here to try and stir and your whole façade is quite fairy tale.

because of course, that's all a new poster and an admitted non-Lycra wearer with a strong opinion can be.

like I have nothing better to do.

why post if you have nothing constructive to add. you're one of the patronising, unwelcoming douchebags that discourages new riders from trying to learn more and find a community.

supera wrote:anyway, perhaps i will put my head down and back out of this forum altogether. i'm clearly only ever going to be a bike rider. from what I've experienced so far on the roads and on this forum, i don't ever want to be a "cyclist" - too many of them are hypocritical, arrogant douchebags.

my first weekend riding after getting my bike, i was riding along, minding my own business, and having a friggen ball. was absolutely loving it. i must've looked ridiculous riding along with this stupid big grin on my face. (and my friends would tell you that I'm a particularly bubbly personality) what i didn't look like was a cyclist - i was wearing cheap lightweight "athletic shorts", an American football jersey, an old pair of sneakers and a pair of service station sunglasses.

a couple of cyclists, with proper road bikes (i ride a hybrid) and lycra and a lot more speed and experience than me came up behind me. instead of going around me, they started following me (I promise you I wasn't going fast enough for anyone to be slipstreaming off me)

they didn't go around me, so i was expecting that they were going to say hello. (perhaps I was being naive because of the insane amount of fun that i was having)

but they didn't say hello. they started ragging on me for being slow ("hurry up porky" is so mature) and then continued to rag on me as they over took me ("how the f did YOU get a bike to hold you?!"). for someone who had owned his bike for 3 days, it was about the most horrible experience that I could've imagined at that particular point in time. i'd had my bike 3 days, it took me another 3 days to want to go and ride on the road again. and it hasn't been as fun as it was in the first 3 days.

it's upsetting to even recount it. it upset me because they maliciously took my fun for no reason. it upset me because i spent a lot of money that i didn't really have for that fun. and it particularly upset me because i spent all that money hoping that this was a community that i might be able to get involved in, and my first experience with that community was awful.

but i hoped that these guys were the arrogant ones who are probably the 'bad eggs' that i refer to on the road. i had hoped that not all 'cyclists' were like that - which is why i joined this forum. i wanted to meet the friendly cycling community.

but from the responses I've received so far for daring to offer an opinion and ask a question, most of you are the same hypocritical, arrogant douchebags that wrecked my first week in my new hobby.

you aren't better than me just because you can ride fast. your world might revolve around your bike, but mine doesn't. to me it's just fun. or at least it was for the first 3 days.

"cycling" really is a culture isn't it?

but it's not a culture i want to be a part of if it means having to be a prick to new riders and become so closed minded that I forget how some cyclists behave. i never want to become one of you who thinks that cyclists can't ever do anything wrong, and who thinks that all vitriol directed at riders in unwarranted. like drivers, cyclists sometimes do stupid things. i don't ever want to become so arrogant that i forget that.

in my experience over the last 2 weeks, you people (cyclists, both on the road and on this forum) are a very unwelcoming people. you espouse the virtues of cycling as though it makes you better than drivers, you say that everyone should be doing it - but you don't want them doing it. they're cutting in on your niche. they're cutting in your culture. you don't want your sport becoming mainstream at all because then it would be less obvious that you're a "cyclist" when you're wearing your matching lycra at the coffee shop.

anyway, that's the end of my rant/sook. thanks for confirming that too many cyclists are exactly like those pricks, and if riding a bike is to be fun, it will be in spite of you.

i'll check in again in a couple of days though - just cos i'm hoping that if anyone is aware of an online community of friendly, non-patronising, welcoming bike riders (as opposed to 'cyclists'), please let me know.

fwiw, thanks to you for sharing kb. you're the first rider i've ever known to get a fine!

Don't want to get involved with the rego argument (that's like arguing about chain care...nobody wins) but I just wanted to offer my sympathy in relation to your experience with those two total gits. Complete w...... behaviour on their part, I really can't work out what the thought processes are that lead to people doing stuff like that. Please be reassured we're not all like that. Pretty much everybody I've met in cycling have been good people, I've never had an issue. Just on Saturday my wife and I went out on a ride, road bikes but on this occasion in baggy shorts and t-shirts rather than Lycra. My wife got a puncture at southbank, I was just finishing up fixing it when a fairly serious looking guy in a UQ strip went by, and then doubled back to make sure we were okay. That sums up my experience of people really. I ride with a shop group a couple of times a week, mixed age and ability, and I have never seen them be anything but encouraging to riders new and old. They love riding, and they take delight in other people discovering the fun too.

At the end of the day, all the Lycra/road bike vs hybrid vs blah blah blah/fast vs slow people etc etc is just froth. Cycling is about freedom, not the freedom to run lights, but the mental freedom you get from cruising along with the breeze on your face, worrying about nothing in life apart from keeping the pedals turning and the wheels rolling. It's brilliant, you already know this, and that's all you need to worry about.

you're one of the patronising, unwelcoming douchebags that discourages new riders from trying to learn more and find a community.

Calling another poster on here a douchebag in post number 12 does unfortunately show you have a huge chip on your shoulder that that is going to make it difficult for you to find a community where you are going to be welcome with that attitude.

Cadel is probably one of the most down to earth and all round nicest sporting star produced by Australia. I am not going to say go read his book but just look at his words, actions and how he goes about his business. Top guy.

Bicycle Rego is 100% a total waste of time, effort and money. In fact it would actually cause more harm, leave the community worse off. In addition such a rego system would deter some cyclists and others would totally ignore it much the same as the helmet laws.

Cars are registered and it stopped none of the carnage. I've had a few road rage incidents, funnily enough they were at me to pay rego, wen they had rego plates but it did not stop one guy trying to kill me. Rego plates mean nothing.

Sorry about your friends broken wrist, the chances anyone would of thought to get the rego from the tiny plate on the bike is pretty slim to not going to happen. The government needs to educate everyone in this backward country about driving, cycling and walking. It sounds basic but a lot of people are doing it wrong.

There is no valid argument for bike registration, most countries who tried quickly found out it achieve nothing. Japan I believe still does it to prevent theft, and it does not even do much to stop that.

supera, all I can say is welcome to the world of cycling, but I'd suggest you get that thing off your shoulder.

But I do see where it comes from - Canberra does seem to have a huge problem with accepting cyclists as normal human beings, people who are simply customers in cafes and other stores. I reckon a lot of this appalling attitude comes from drivers who have grown up under the misguided idea that, because Canberra has a few nice bike paths, they should have sole use of the roads.

Wake up Australia, bicycles are road vehicles. The road rules specify this, nothing to do with registration

Supera - we aren't all nasty, but I think you don't really want to accept that. I think you are here for a fight, and the name calling just makes you as bad as the other two cyclists who apparently insulted you.

I'm yet to encounter any nasty cyclists. I think you just need to put your head down and ride, forget about what others say or do. And remember, all online forums have trolls. But I don't need to tell you that, I think you know it already.

Driving from a 100kph zone into an 80kph zone yesterday, just thinking about changing to the right lane and did a mirror check, a black V8 Commodore approaching rapidly, then passes me... doing around 150 - 160 kph. I didn't get the rego... happened too quick.

Now... in my car, I would probably be shifting to 4'th at about that speed. Not that I would ever drive like that, of course. Because I would fully expect to get reported to the police.

I wish it WAS cost effective to be able to track cyclists, and I also think riders should have passed a license test before getting out on a road - purely because it would make the world turn a bit more smoothly for everyone. But it's not practical, and therefore they should spend more money on visible policing.

But that costs money. Standard of living vs. Community. Population growth to drive consumerism. Personal freedom. So many things to be juggled.

people seem very focussed on the pricks I encountered on the road and forgotten all about the patronising and unwelcoming responses I initially received.

I've since received some very good responses - but I didn't deserve accusations of trolling or to be spoken down to for a legitimate opinion and question.

to those suggesting I have a chip on my shoulder, if I do it's only been for the last 24 hours. I didn't consider those guys to be representative of cyclists - until the responses on here were every bit as unwelcoming to a new cyclist as those guys were.

except this forum was worse - they didn't know I was a noob. everyone here did. I find it incredulous that you are all saying how outrageous the behaviour of those riders while defending the responses to my question.

it certainly didn't help that the person who attacked me the most (human909) clearly hadn't even read my post before attaching me. that's as clear a sign as I need that I was being attacked just for being a noob - at least by that person. (u can't have been that offended by my opinion, cos you didn't read it)

so no, "forum reputation" means nothing to me, nor does post count. I treat people according to how they treat me. so if you're going to attack me for being new, or for having an unpopular opinion - well, you are a douchebag.

with all that said, I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush - some people have been friendly and welcoming. I thank those people for shunning the mob mentality.

but some others? you ARE the "cyclists" (as opposed to "bike riders") that I met on the road.

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