sircallen wrote:I took the liberty to put my Auto CAD skills to use and drew up a quick illustration of building rotater abuse:As you can see, the red thingy is longer than the black thingy and this means you can abuse the rectangular nature of buildings' foundations by creating seemingly longer paths for units to traverse. Imagine these are two block houses or banks. Note, a similar effect can be achieved with a cheap wall, though the rotated buildings provide a rather nice "pocket" for ranged units to sit in and greatly protects ranged infantry from cav. Pushing two rotated blockhouses is much more difficult than two non-rotated blockhouses.

Pathing is such a large part of aoe it makes sense not to allow it.

Its also not going to matter in 99%+ of all games. I feel like rotating a random wall pillar midmap just to protest it.

(I could not quote this entire thing but I worked really hard on that picture I want everyone to see it.)

Idk man, a lot of games come down to one large fight and whoever wins it is sitting pretty. These fights typically happen at some sort of infrastructure location whether that be a mid map fb or a defensively fortified tc. I just think rotater is giving the defensive position a non-negligible advantage when all else is equal. But that advantage can also be and will be negligible in an arguable amount of circumstances.

Purely from a tournament hosting view point it makes the most sense just not to fuck with it.

sircallen wrote:I took the liberty to put my Auto CAD skills to use and drew up a quick illustration of building rotater abuse:As you can see, the red thingy is longer than the black thingy and this means you can abuse the rectangular nature of buildings' foundations by creating seemingly longer paths for units to traverse. Imagine these are two block houses or banks. Note, a similar effect can be achieved with a cheap wall, though the rotated buildings provide a rather nice "pocket" for ranged units to sit in and greatly protects ranged infantry from cav. Pushing two rotated blockhouses is much more difficult than two non-rotated blockhouses.Pathing is such a large part of aoe it makes sense not to allow it.

Call me dirty , but who here like me thought why he has drawn square boobs

P.S : building rotator does give unfair advantage to defensive civs like dutch , TAD civs (Wonders). I like it that the rule related to its use is clearly mentioned.

sircallen wrote:I took the liberty to put my Auto CAD skills to use and drew up a quick illustration of building rotater abuse:As you can see, the red thingy is longer than the black thingy and this means you can abuse the rectangular nature of buildings' foundations by creating seemingly longer paths for units to traverse. Imagine these are two block houses or banks. Note, a similar effect can be achieved with a cheap wall, though the rotated buildings provide a rather nice "pocket" for ranged units to sit in and greatly protects ranged infantry from cav. Pushing two rotated blockhouses is much more difficult than two non-rotated blockhouses.Pathing is such a large part of aoe it makes sense not to allow it.

Call me dirty , but who here like me thought why he has drawn square boobs

P.S : building rotator does give unfair advantage to defensive civs like dutch , TAD civs (Wonders). I like it that the rule related to its use is clearly mentioned.

Ep gives an unfair advantage to ports and spain. Should be banned too. Or is the usage of unfair here completely subjective?

sircallen wrote:I took the liberty to put my Auto CAD skills to use and drew up a quick illustration of building rotater abuse:As you can see, the red thingy is longer than the black thingy and this means you can abuse the rectangular nature of buildings' foundations by creating seemingly longer paths for units to traverse. Imagine these are two block houses or banks. Note, a similar effect can be achieved with a cheap wall, though the rotated buildings provide a rather nice "pocket" for ranged units to sit in and greatly protects ranged infantry from cav. Pushing two rotated blockhouses is much more difficult than two non-rotated blockhouses.Pathing is such a large part of aoe it makes sense not to allow it.

Call me dirty , but who here like me thought why he has drawn square boobs

P.S : building rotator does give unfair advantage to defensive civs like dutch , TAD civs (Wonders). I like it that the rule related to its use is clearly mentioned.

Ep gives an unfair advantage to ports and spain. Should be banned too. Or is the usage of unfair here completely subjective?

Yeah I suppose it's almost entirely subjective but that's half my point: it has never been a staple of the game so why even dabble in it? Players are responsible for not having the feature enabled in the launcher. There is no real way of activating building rotater accidentally in-game unless the player actively attempts to do so.

People are for the most part reasonable. If an opponent rotates vs me I will most likely allow it unless I felt it really did jeopardize the game. If it is as irrelevant as you say I would be willing to bet any rotater incident will be swept aside by both parties as, "shit happens."

Jerom wrote:Its mostly an irrelevant thing to me but im gonna be sad about the upcoming rotator incident.

I would be really happy when some retards use the mod and lose or even get disqualified. NO MATTER, how good a player are you, if u are illiterate and cannot abide by the rules of the tournament, U DESERVE to get punished. xD

Jerom wrote:Its mostly an irrelevant thing to me but im gonna be sad about the upcoming rotator incident.

I would be really happy when some retards use the mod and lose or even get disqualified. NO MATTER, how good a player are you, if u are illiterate and cannot abide by the rules of the tournament, U DESERVE to get punished. xD

It's not that people are illiterate, it's that they turn the mod off because they remember they aren't allowed it. They then turn it back on because they use it normally. They remember again to turn it off in the RO64. They then turn it back on and play with it on for another 2/3 weeks before their next match. Then they play RO32 match and they've forgot to turn it back off because its now been 3 weeks since last match, and then out of habit they rotate 1 bank.

Do they deserve to lose the match or entire set because they've forgotten to turn it off once?

It's not that people can't abide by tourney rules, it's that they are forgetful, and in competitive scenes and high class play, habits are what wins games. Good habits are what separates good players, from great players. So to try and break a beneficial habit isn't easy. If the rotator is always going to be banned, the EP team should just remove it from EP. Solve the whole issue.

wardyb1 wrote:Do they deserve to lose the match or entire set because they've forgotten to turn it off once?

The rule says once = warning , twice = lost that game , thrice = disqualified (i m pretty sure things wont be that harsh unless its been repeated many times). So, stay focused and remember to do things like downloading the map set , knowing the maps, checking hotkeys, and other settings etc. This is like a basic preparation for tourney games. We all have shouted at ESOCTV casters when they forget to 'remove the overlay' , 'mic not working' , 'poor quality stream' bla bla. Why only the casters present for the show and not the players?

wardyb1 wrote:Do they deserve to lose the match or entire set because they've forgotten to turn it off once?

The rule says once = warning , twice = lost that game , thrice = disqualified (i m pretty sure things wont be that harsh unless its been repeated many times). So, stay focused and remember to do things like downloading the map set , knowing the maps, checking hotkeys, and other settings etc. This is like a basic preparation for tourney games. We all have shouted at ESOCTV casters when they forget to 'remove the overlay' , 'mic not working' , 'poor quality stream' bla bla. Why only the casters present for the show and not the players?

Also, "Rotator mod as a good habit" --> that's debatable.

I feel like a warning for the first time could be abused. I mean if I'm playing japan vs an aggressive civ im gonna rotate my big shrine for sure and take the warning.

wardyb1 wrote:Do they deserve to lose the match or entire set because they've forgotten to turn it off once?

The rule says once = warning , twice = lost that game , thrice = disqualified (i m pretty sure things wont be that harsh unless its been repeated many times). So, stay focused and remember to do things like downloading the map set , knowing the maps, checking hotkeys, and other settings etc. This is like a basic preparation for tourney games. We all have shouted at ESOCTV casters when they forget to 'remove the overlay' , 'mic not working' , 'poor quality stream' bla bla. Why only the casters present for the show and not the players?

Also, "Rotator mod as a good habit" --> that's debatable.

I feel like a warning for the first time could be abused. I mean if I'm playing japan vs an aggressive civ im gonna rotate my big shrine for sure and take the warning.

* = If the rotator mod is game breaking, by for example rotating your buildings to wall off your base, this will lead to a map loss immediately without any preceding warning.

wardyb1 wrote:Do they deserve to lose the match or entire set because they've forgotten to turn it off once?

The rule says once = warning , twice = lost that game , thrice = disqualified (i m pretty sure things wont be that harsh unless its been repeated many times). So, stay focused and remember to do things like downloading the map set , knowing the maps, checking hotkeys, and other settings etc. This is like a basic preparation for tourney games. We all have shouted at ESOCTV casters when they forget to 'remove the overlay' , 'mic not working' , 'poor quality stream' bla bla. Why only the casters present for the show and not the players?

Also, "Rotator mod as a good habit" --> that's debatable.

I feel like a warning for the first time could be abused. I mean if I'm playing japan vs an aggressive civ im gonna rotate my big shrine for sure and take the warning.

* = If the rotator mod is game breaking, by for example rotating your buildings to wall off your base, this will lead to a map loss immediately without any preceding warning.

that just seems a bit subjective imo. I think it should be either straight up banned and people get kicked out for using it or it's okay, not any of this wishy washyness

Talking about rules, is the explorer glitch allowed (with aztec) ? Because it seem's far more game deciding than building rotator (entire strategies are based on this shit) and it's basicly the same cheat as using alt+D for me... Ik it can be removed on ep, so will this be done next patch ?

I think this is really great and am looking forward to some awesome vods! Could you make the prize pool 1400 - and use the last 100 to get Edeholland a better mike? He does a GREAT job, but the sound could use some care :)

crjensen4 wrote:I think this is really great and am looking forward to some awesome vods! Could you make the prize pool 1400 - and use the last 100 to get Edeholland a better mike? He does a GREAT job, but the sound could use some care :)

Will there be group stages?

Oh and nothing happens when I attempt to signup....

Ede's mike is not that bad Yes, there will be group stages.There is currently a problem with signing up for people without any team games recorded on JP ELO. I'm working on a fix, hopefully it will be out sometime today.

crjensen4 wrote:I think this is really great and am looking forward to some awesome vods! Could you make the prize pool 1400 - and use the last 100 to get Edeholland a better mike? He does a GREAT job, but the sound could use some care :)

Will there be group stages?

Oh and nothing happens when I attempt to signup....

or we could get umeu a 1080p screen so he can actually stream in more than 800x600 haha. Or just give 100 bucks to interjection.

sircallen wrote:Yeah I suppose it's almost entirely subjective but that's half my point: it has never been a staple of the game so why even dabble in it? Players are responsible for not having the feature enabled in the launcher. There is no real way of activating building rotater accidentally in-game unless the player actively attempts to do so.

How has it not been? Also isn't it all irrelevant because of 3D game engine?