They let the Horde in and the Horde ended up desecrating and despoiling the vale.

You always say desecrating and despoiling. I find that interesting because they found the somehow still alive body of an old god resting below their oh-so-sacred vale. Shouldn't the Shado-Pan be interested in that or even thankful that this was discovered ?
It's not as if the Horde was digging for oil or gold there. Y'Shaarj corrupts their most holy place from below and they threaten the ones that discovered that ?

Really when you think about it Taran Zhu is now barking orders at the horde to leave the vale.. the same horde that just faught against the thunder king, well Taran stood on the sidelines bleeding...

yeah, if there was any dam logic in story here, horde players would just kick it ass off the cliff into the sea.

The same horde that dug a giant ditch in the vale. The same horde who tried to steal the divine bell. The same horde who are killing their own. The same horde who now have some sort of titan/old god artifact. The alliance didn't need the hordes help to take down the thunder king. I believe technically the alliance got the canon version of the thunder king kill because of jaina's staff. The horde is sounding like a bunch of whiny babies considering how much lore you guys have had this expansion..Fricken 5.3 has a world event FOCUSED AROUND THE HORDE. Like seriously. You guys are so whiny. This is worse than "Theramore in flames" thread...god

Originally Posted by Yriel

You always say desecrating and despoiling. I find that interesting because they found the somehow still alive body of an old god resting below their oh-so-sacred vale. Shouldn't the Shado-Pan be interested in that or even thankful that this was discovered ?
It's not as if the Horde was digging for oil or gold there. Y'Shaarj corrupts their most holy place from below and they threaten the ones that discovered that ?

Y'shaarj is dead.......................Y'shaarj isn't corrupting the vale. Y'shaarj wasn't doing anything until your horde disturbed the artifact. So no Y'shaarj was never a thread because he's already dead. Plus the horde isn't SHARING that information with the shado-pan. They're greedfully taking the artifact and running.

The alliance didn't need the hordes help to take down the thunder king. I believe technically the alliance got the canon version of the thunder king kill because of jaina's staff.

They weren't helping each other, neither the Sunreavers nor the Kirin Tor would have needed help and I would guess both sides are canon, since Tharan Zhu does not purge the Shrine, because the blood elves helped him on the Isle of Thunder, Jaina gets her sparkly staff, blood elves their new Golems everyone is happy, except for the Shado pan who wanted those weapons destroyed, but were promptly ignored by both.

He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

Y'shaarj is dead.......................Y'shaarj isn't corrupting the vale. Y'shaarj wasn't doing anything until your horde disturbed the artifact. So no Y'shaarj was never a thread because he's already dead. Plus the horde isn't SHARING that information with the shado-pan. They're greedfully taking the artifact and running.

Well give me your definition of dead because he sure was able to posess the goblin and talk through him. I wouldn't call that dead.
But even if he is "dead", the freaking body of an old god, the most evil thing on Azeroth (and the main deity of the Mantid by the way), was buried under their holiest place. If i'd be a protector of Pandaria i sure would like to know that.
Yes the Horde wasn't exactly sharing that info but still a gigantic threat to the vale was discovered.
I wouldn't call the digging desecrating the vale.

Well give me your definition of dead because he sure was able to posess the goblin and talk through him. I wouldn't call that dead.
But even if he is "dead", the freaking body of an old god, the most evil thing on Azeroth (and the main deity of the Mantid by the way), was buried under their holiest place. If i'd be a protector of Pandaria i sure would like to know that.
Yes the Horde wasn't exactly sharing that info but still a gigantic threat to the vale was discovered.
I wouldn't call the digging desecrating the vale.

If they're not sharing it then it's not useful to be discovered. And it's his spirit. Just like c'thun went into cho'gall. Old gods can't permanently die, they die and still live on. And probably may eventually come back. But if they aren't sharing the info..Pandaren's won't know about it until it actually comes back if he does. So it's still useless.

If they're not sharing it then it's not useful to be discovered. And it's his spirit. Just like c'thun went into cho'gall. Old gods can't permanently die, they die and still live on. And probably may eventually come back. But if they aren't sharing the info..Pandaren's won't know about it until it actually comes back if he does. So it's still useless.

Well aren't the Shado Pan not supposed to be the master of infiltration ? The chatty Goblin who was posessed just walked outside afterwards to take a nap. It won't be that difficult to find out what they discovered in the dig...

You always say desecrating and despoiling. I find that interesting because they found the somehow still alive body of an old god resting below their oh-so-sacred vale. Shouldn't the Shado-Pan be interested in that or even thankful that this was discovered ?
It's not as if the Horde was digging for oil or gold there. Y'Shaarj corrupts their most holy place from below and they threaten the ones that discovered that ?

I was wondering if the type of player, that complains about the story sucking due to bad stuff happening to the faction they play, is just magicaly attracted to the alliance or if there was just not enough bad stuff happening to us, that our guys didnt complain
I would have prefered the first option

I really enjoy being the underdog for once and I still find all our leaders far more interesting than anything happening on the alliance side. Oh and if you go into someones holy vale and start digging, you should have someone telling you to gtfo.
Pretty sure the only reason we are not at war with the pandas is gameplay wise not having a base anymore would suck

btw ...it will be intresting to see if the "typical" alliance players (vocal minority ?) will stop whining and actually be okay with their faction if the current trend of blizzard sledgehammering" The alliance is cool! You are united! Your King is a badass! And no longer crazy! And the dwarves now love each other because!" into the story will continue for a while I kinda doubt it.

Oh and for the Horde. The true one. No the other true one...no not the one in blackrock mountain

"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

Its a shame dezco is such a spineless maggot (and child murderer). Real leader would simply punch that fat panda so hard he would find his teeth in northrend.

Yeah, because that's how a 'real leader' would react to someone who's COMPLETELY justified in his anger.

Taran Zhu has EVERY reason to hate the Horde. This whole 'Shado-Pan are useless, they cant' do anything, we killed all the threats is a terrible argument. The Sha were a threat that was amplified by the Alliance and Horde, so they had every reason to take out those threats. The Mogu are an enormous, endless legion, while the Shado-Pan are a very small organization. They've survived the last couple thousand of years without the help of anyone else, and they could easily do it again. (Considering the Sha wouldn't be that big of a threat without H/A).

And the Mantid threat is the only threat that the Shado-Pan actually needed help with. They weren't prepared for a Mantid Army that was fuelled and empowered by the Sha.

The Thunder King Campaign was an equal campaign on both the H/A and the Shado-pan side. Game play dictates that we have to be the ones who 'advance the story through our aid' but that doesn't mean the Shado-Pan are sitting around idly, doing nothing.

Should they wanted to, Taran Zhu and his Shado-Pan could've easily snuffed out the Hordes Shrine (and the Alliances, too). They may be few in number, but their greatest weapon is their stealth and we've seen Giant Mogu fall to a single blow by a stealthed Pandaren.

Hard to belive it, since in all the zones we go, the Sha are already rampant by their own, while we discovered that they weren't by thousand and thousand of years. We simply see the Sha of Doubt of the Jade Forest because, well, we are in the Jade Forest. This doesn't mean that all emerged instantly in the same time, but it's sure that who before who after all released during the events in the Jade Forest.

I explained this. The Shado-Pan failed in their duty. Taran Zhu misplaced his anger towards the Alliance and Horde, when in reality, the only Sha they were responsible for was Doubt.

Fear, Hatred, and Violence was all on the Shado-Pan. Fear escaped prior to the Horde/Alliance landing, which is why the Dread Wastes is so warped. It's referenced in a short story as well. Violence "escaped" but festered in the temple, probably because of the fighting going on with the mantid. Hatred "escaped" and (after I was corrected), overpowered Taran Zhu after his anger at the Alliance/Horde reached a boiling point, after that, it fled to Townlong, where it ended up overpowering Suna Sunstrike due to her anger at Taran Zhu, to the point she refused to be saved.

The Sha of Anger no one knows. It's possible the Alliance/Horde caused that one too, but it's also equally possible Taran Zhu or even Xuen caused it, as 3 other Sha were focused on the Celestials.

The Sha of Despair preyed on Chi-Ji's despair. It is unknown when this happened, but it was BEFORE the Alliance and Horde entered Krasarang Wilds. This is made quite obvious when you do the quests there.

The Sha of Doubt had been imprisoned by Yu'lon under Serpent's Heart. The Hozen and Jinyu's doubts about the future and the Alliance/Horde's doubts about the war caused it's seal to break, releasing the Sha. That is the only Sha the Alliance and Horde are guilty of releasing.

Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan spent so much time blaming the Alliance/Horde to cover up what they did that they seem to have believed it. You learn the truth in the Kun-Lai and Townlong quests, if you piece it all together. There is a reason after the Alliance/Horde save Taran Zhu he accepts their help. He realizes the error of his ways, and that we are stronger than him, emotionally. We were not overcome our Violence while fighting Violence, our Doubts while fighting Doubt, etc. He was.

The Sha of Pride is a unique Sha. We don't know where it is, but we know it's not causing Havoc. In fact, the Pandaren don't even know about it, other than Shaohan. Why? Because after Shaohan refused to admit he needed help, the Sha manifested itself as the Mists. There was no Sha for the Pandaren to know, as for all they knew, it was the mystical fogs that Shaohan set up to protect Pandaria.

It's possible the Alliance/Horde caused Pride to reappear as well, but we do not know that yet. Anduin stumbled into Pandaria prior to the Mists parting, so it's entirely possible that Anduin's pride in his belief of peace attracted Pride to infect him or search out someone who Anduin was thinking about. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out Anduin is the one the Sha of Pride is hiding in. It's good, until it's bad.

It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out Anduin is the one the Sha of Pride is hiding in

All you guys saying that Thrall or Anduin are possible hosts of the Sha of Pride make me wonder if you really understand what pride means. Just because someone is not succumbed to his flaws and weaknesses or that lived important experiences for which many other persons would be arrogant and prideful, doesn't mean that they are. Thrall for example has been shown very humble about all the stuff he made, as shown in novels (Tides of War) and in game. Anduin NEVER showed signs of arrogance or pride. Seriously, it's obvious that Garrosh and his Kor'kron will be (or are) the easiest prey in the entire planet for the Sha of Pride. It is not even worth discussing about it;

"All the LESSER races are enemies of the TRUE Horde!". Nah, no pride at all, just an insane supremacist obsessive crazy pride.

Fear, Hatred, and Violence was all on the Shado-Pan. Fear escaped prior to the Horde/Alliance landing, which is why the Dread Wastes is so warped. It's referenced in a short story as well. Violence "escaped" but festered in the temple, probably because of the fighting going on with the mantid. Hatred "escaped" and (after I was corrected), overpowered Taran Zhu after his anger at the Alliance/Horde reached a boiling point, after that, it fled to Townlong, where it ended up overpowering Suna Sunstrike due to her anger at Taran Zhu, to the point she refused to be saved.

You are assuming that these events happened before our arrival because were already active when we make the quests there, and it's a shallow assumption. Following a logical progress of questing through the zones, it's much more arguable that the various escapes took place during our questing in the Jade Forest, and if someone follow the logic behind the progress of the zones, when you arrive at the Dread Wastes (the last zone) a lot of time passed meanwhile, making it more than belivable that in that time the Sha of Fear escaped, fled to the Mantid territory, and began to corrupt the Empress.
We have the first hint that something extraordinary is happening behind the wall in the last quest of the VoFW, with that "Sha blast" suddenly erupting into the Pandaren territory and the Mantid attacking thousand of years before the Shado-Pan had expected. Violence is easly a Horde/Alliance responsiblity, maybe and i say MAYBE Hatred is the only exception and the Shado-Pan with their growing despise for us they have contributed to awaken, but always AFTER our arrival.

The Sha of Anger no one knows. It's possible the Alliance/Horde caused that one too, but it's also equally possible Taran Zhu or even Xuen caused it, as 3 other Sha were focused on the Celestials.

Xuen? Absolutely not. And we know from where the Anger comes from, it was chained in the Monastery like the other two Sha, but it escaped into the open Kun-Lai, in the same time the other two broke free aswell.

The Sha of Despair preyed on Chi-Ji's despair. It is unknown when this happened, but it was BEFORE the Alliance and Horde entered Krasarang Wilds. This is made quite obvious when you do the quests there.

Again, before we arrive in the Krasarang time is passed, and nothing hinted that what happened in the temple of Chi-Ji or the Zhu's Province was happening by months and months ago. You cannot seriously belive that after THOUSAND of years of complete calmness almost all the Sha began to randomly erupt in all their power and escaping by their own for "Shado-Pan ineptitude". It's simply unrealistic. Plus, it's unbelivebale that Chi-Ji was randomly despairing with no reasons and caused the Sha to broke out, it's instead a lot more logical that the Sha of Despair awakened in almost the same time of the Sha of Doubt, and when we arrived there, after days and even one or two weeks, the situation was the one we saw, with Chi-Ji possed by the Sha itself and so brought into unnatural despair.

The only reason for which Taran Zhu is so eager to accepts our help in the Townlong is that we proved to him that we "heroes", instead of all the rest of our Horde/Alliance buddies, were open to help him to face the real dangers of Pandaria, and this has been proved with us saving him from the Sha of Hate that was devouring him, while the rest of the Alliance and Horde just continued to battle each other, the real and effective fuel of the Sha. We indeed proved to be stronger emotionally, still this is relative only to the "heroes", not to the whole of the Alliance/Horde troops in Pandaria.