20 PMs an hour are not enough. It often seems like I am rude cause I don't get to my PMs. Well I am rude, but sometimes when I sit down to do my PMs, I don't get to them all and then the ones I don't get to get buried in my memory and inbox.

It is especially frustrating when more than a few of us use the PM function not to "derail" threads.

I mean really does anyone want more of mine and Achronos' back and forth here?

Dude you have no idea how scatterbrain you sound via PM at times. People should know you are much more sane

I dunno what brings it out.

Quote

Some that some of the women here get are beyond the pale.

You really should take your orthonorm column on relationships and turn it into a subscription service for Orthodox males. Do a mail order thingy, include some handmade soap and incense from the monks dwelling in your basement.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 11:00:12 PM by Shiny »

Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

It would be a not-so-involved script to write out to PM every single person on OC.net spam. This way they'd be limited 20 an hour, until they get reported.

Not that everybody would click on the spam, but a "troll" could write out something to bait people into a link on a "trollish" subject.

At 20 an hour though, they'd be limited. Also it may involve server storage limitations on Dbase/MySQL. I sort of doubt it though - makes more sense of a security thing.

Couldnt that security be ensured by imposing the limit on new accounts, and it going away after a day/week/month/year/certain post count

I don't know. The thing is it is always possible for some irate person who has been banned to come back and bring the forum to its needs via PM. It could be a disaster and even bring down the Dbase if overfilled. Especially if one had a script of trash text.

Imagine 10,000 messages 10 pages long being sent to every user on the forum all at once.

The pm limits COULD be there to keep things like this in check.

Also there are people who would even create long time users to unearth a series of spam...

It would be a not-so-involved script to write out to PM every single person on OC.net spam. This way they'd be limited 20 an hour, until they get reported.

Not that everybody would click on the spam, but a "troll" could write out something to bait people into a link on a "trollish" subject.

At 20 an hour though, they'd be limited. Also it may involve server storage limitations on Dbase/MySQL. I sort of doubt it though - makes more sense of a security thing.

Couldnt that security be ensured by imposing the limit on new accounts, and it going away after a day/week/month/year/certain post count

I don't know. The thing is it is always possible for some irate person who has been banned to come back and bring the forum to its needs via PM. It could be a disaster and even bring down the Dbase if overfilled. Especially if one had a script of trash text.

Imagine 10,000 messages 10 pages long being sent to every user on the forum all at once.

The pm limits COULD be there to keep things like this in check.

Also there are people who would even create long time users to unearth a series of spam...

But seriously is the limit really that bad?

I get locked out within five minutes at times.

Again, I'll gladly move the conversations I am having to the board, but it seems people have had enough of my posts, so they might not enjoy seeing reams of threads about whatever on the board.

Dunno, that'd be the the admin's decision and the resources he has or wants to spend etc.

But 20 messages an hour? that's like sending out another PM every 3 minutes.... Sounds like a fair limit for somebody typing something with context.... I mean unless they are all one/two liners.

Really its an admin thing. Perhaps if it requires more resources a donation of $ or hardware with the suggestion may be convincing. It's all in the server setup, if its on host, or concerns of the admin. Dunno about the simple machines forum, but it in itself may have limitations.

You guys would be surprised with just how much space simple messages can eventually take up in a database... Especially if they are always kept and never deleted... It just grows and grows and grows, including PM's....

It would be a not-so-involved script to write out to PM every single person on OC.net spam. This way they'd be limited 20 an hour, until they get reported.

Not that everybody would click on the spam, but a "troll" could write out something to bait people into a link on a "trollish" subject.

At 20 an hour though, they'd be limited. Also it may involve server storage limitations on Dbase/MySQL. I sort of doubt it though - makes more sense of a security thing.

Couldnt that security be ensured by imposing the limit on new accounts, and it going away after a day/week/month/year/certain post count

I don't know. The thing is it is always possible for some irate person who has been banned to come back and bring the forum to its needs via PM. It could be a disaster and even bring down the Dbase if overfilled. Especially if one had a script of trash text.

Imagine 10,000 messages 10 pages long being sent to every user on the forum all at once.

The pm limits COULD be there to keep things like this in check.

Also there are people who would even create long time users to unearth a series of spam...

But seriously is the limit really that bad?

I get locked out within five minutes at times.

Again, I'll gladly move the conversations I am having to the board, but it seems people have had enough of my posts, so they might not enjoy seeing reams of threads about whatever on the board.

If I copy four people on something, I quickly time out.

Oh well.

There's sections for a lot here... Yeah understand what you are saying though to include multiples.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

IOW, some members have sent me PMs from the more righteous voices here who seem to like to deride me. What they say in private is oh so illuminating.

Just be glad you aren't a woman here. The worst I get is someone calling me names and threatening me or something. Women get creepy dudes wanted to reach out and "help them", phone number and all. Some of them are even married.

If you ever want to call a member here, holler at me, I might have their phone number. If it was given to me because of some creepy PM to a woman, it is all yours.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

Heh, as controversial religiously as I am on the forum, surprisingly, I barely get any hate mail....

I get more "what do you think abouts", etc... Plus some tech support.....And of course, a few warnings and moderations.

YiM, no matter how you might think you seen cause of your monotonic posts around here and the reaction they get, you are a stand up guy obviously boardwise. I am a jerk. I bring out the worst in people at times and I try to help them manage that part of them.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

Heh, as controversial religiously as I am on the forum, surprisingly, I barely get any hate mail....

I get more "what do you think abouts", etc... Plus some tech support.....And of course, a few warnings and moderations.

YiM, no matter how you might think you seen cause of your monotonic posts around here and the reaction they get, you are a stand up guy obviously boardwise. I am a jerk. I bring out the worst in people at times and I try to help them manage that part of them.

You are just too nice. I am sure you are a decent human being.

Honestly I am a sinner and I can bring out plenty bad.

Oh you're not a jerk, you just want things raw with all the filler stripped away - out in the open. At least that's how I've come to know you. I can appreciate that.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

I think (now I don't know for sure) but having been an administrator on several forums, generally PM's would not really ever be read unless there was some kind of issue. (no time either). I don't think they'd find anything interesting on my PM's.

Heh, back in time I tried to do an "open confession thread". LOL Put it out raw and into the open.It didn't work out.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

Thankfully, I have never sent/received a PM from you that I can recall, nor do I wish to receive one.

However, there is a recent rule here that you cannot publish a PM unless the other party/parties agrees.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

I think (now I don't know for sure) but having been an administrator on several forums, generally PM's would not really ever be read unless there was some kind of issue. (no time either). I don't think they'd find anything interesting on my PM's.

Heh, back in time I tried to do an "open confession thread". LOL Put it out raw and into the open.It didn't work out.

I think I remember such a thread. It was a real bomb.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

Thankfully, I have never sent/received a PM from you that I can recall, nor do I wish to receive one.

However, there is a recent rule here that you cannot publish a PM unless the other party/parties agrees.

I don't typically PM women, especially married women. I've only done so for reasons which seemed reasonable to me. Unlike other guys here.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

I think (now I don't know for sure) but having been an administrator on several forums, generally PM's would not really ever be read unless there was some kind of issue. (no time either). I don't think they'd find anything interesting on my PM's.

Heh, back in time I tried to do an "open confession thread". LOL Put it out raw and into the open.It didn't work out.

Someone brought that to my attention about a week ago. I missed it. I think someone of us would put many of you in a legally murky zone if we told you our worst sins, or what most people think are the worst ones.

When I did my AA inventory, it included a sponsor, an attorney, a therapist, and a RC Priest.

Before I do any AA stuff with someone, I'm like here is the list of stuff you can't tell anything specific about and here are the names of attorneys and Priests would will gladly listen to that part of your inventory for free.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

I think (now I don't know for sure) but having been an administrator on several forums, generally PM's would not really ever be read unless there was some kind of issue. (no time either). I don't think they'd find anything interesting on my PM's.

Heh, back in time I tried to do an "open confession thread". LOL Put it out raw and into the open.It didn't work out.

Someone brought that to my attention about a week ago. I missed it. I think someone of us would put many of you in a legally murky zone if we told you our worst sins, or what most people think are the worst ones.

When I did my AA inventory, it included a sponsor, an attorney, a therapist, and a RC Priest.

Before I do any AA stuff with someone, I'm like here is the list of stuff you can't tell anything specific about and here are the names of attorneys and Priests would will gladly listen to that part of your inventory for free.

Did AA help you? Several folks whom I know who went through AA said that it was a lifeline to them.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

More than 20 per hour? I think I get 20 per year tops. Do you just get loads of hate mail or something?

I always wanted to post my PMs in a thread. I think it would be awesome.

But I am told this against the rules for some reason.

I also have reams of other members' PMs. You might be surprised at what folks around here PM about.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons for different rules. My biggest mess ups are posting something not really realizing where I am at. Such as in Faith issues or something I'll comment forgetting I wasn't in Free for all.

But for PM's if it was my forum, it would be a trust thing. As the forum is religious in nature primarily consisting of Orthodox Christians.... Things can be said privately about somebody - then made public - and it could cause trouble.

My opinion: Such as if somebody was upset with their priest and asked about things/complained on PM, then it be made public, then everybody knows..... I mean it just wouldn't be right. Kind of allows some barriers between "real world" and "forum world".

Similar - That's why I DETEST facebook. (1/3rd of all divorces in the United States in 2011 had the word "facebook" in the papers!) It brings virtual world of "bravery" into the real world.

Hopefully I'm understood, because I don't know how else to explain it. People are braver online. You PM somebody griping about clergy or parishoners, then it be made public, it could quickly get back to the church/parish....

The last time I read the rules. The rules of the board here govern PMs and the admins are allowed to read your PMs. So I figure, why not allow them to be posted in public?

Again, I am no modernist and see no difference between the private and public. But yeah, some folks might have some RL trouble if what they PMed was placed into the public forums.

I think (now I don't know for sure) but having been an administrator on several forums, generally PM's would not really ever be read unless there was some kind of issue. (no time either). I don't think they'd find anything interesting on my PM's.

Heh, back in time I tried to do an "open confession thread". LOL Put it out raw and into the open.It didn't work out.

Someone brought that to my attention about a week ago. I missed it. I think someone of us would put many of you in a legally murky zone if we told you our worst sins, or what most people think are the worst ones.

When I did my AA inventory, it included a sponsor, an attorney, a therapist, and a RC Priest.

Before I do any AA stuff with someone, I'm like here is the list of stuff you can't tell anything specific about and here are the names of attorneys and Priests would will gladly listen to that part of your inventory for free.

Did AA help you? Several folks whom I know who went through AA said that it was a lifeline to them.

I think AA is a complicated creature like all bodies of persons.

Persons in AA saved my life one could argue without hyperbole.

AA in itself can be rather harmful and certainly has held too much sway within so called "addiction medicine" and the legal process in the US.

I was lucky to have a couple of sane sponsors. Most are not as lucky.

And as much time and stuff I put into AA, I would never mislead anyone about its rate of success which has always been about as high as doing nothing. But that is a complicated discussion for another thread.

I haven't read the book in forever but I got the vibe he thinks the Orthodox Church can replace real psychological help. I think thats where he is dangerous.

I remember reading the first page or two and immediately rolling my eyes. I don't remember which one it was, but he was parroting one of those silly convert platitudes, like "Orthodoxy is not a religion", or expounding at length on the all-important word "mystery," or contrasting the mystical East with the rationalist West.

Logged

Quote

Radiates, vegetables, monstrosities, star spawn— whatever they had been, they were men!

I've always maintained Fr. Meletios came across a dangerous dilettante. I think events since my saying such has proved me right. Habte and Gebre should sell the goofy books they read by him.

Really, another reason people shouldn't be so hasty to blow off my opinions.

I think you are right, norm, especially with his hasty departure to the UK.

Logged

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.