1. Going in at 6AM to make the dough for the day I would mix up a batch of thin dough, put it in the bag and container, and that would be the thin dough for the day. I'd say it was in the bag 6-7 hours before first use, and then would be in that bag all day. So this dough was "complete" and ready to use in 6-7 hrs and then remained relatively unchanged for another 10 hours or so. This would imply low yeast amounts. When placed in the bag/container, I'd say the dough came up 1/3 of the way. By the time I left around 2PM I'd say it was a little higher but not significantly. I have seen it in the container at the end of the night and it was perhaps about doubled.

2. The other idea came to when I was trying to make my own thin & crispy dough at home this weekend. I remember the PH T&C was very soft and pliable and had almost no elasticity...like a cross between pizza and pie dough. Rolling out my thin dough with a rolling pin was hard work as it kept wanting to pull back. I'd get it to the right size for my 16" cutter pan and when I picked it up off the silicone mat it shrank significantly and was not large enough for the pan. The PH T&C did not do this at all, so it had very little if any elasticity, yet it went through the sheeter with no sticking. I used a high gluten flour as many suggest here for other tin crispy formulas. Perhaps All-Purpose would be less elastic. I didn't mix it long either...just until it came together.

3. The PH T&C was crackery and crisp where my attempt was more akin to pie dough. It was more crunchy than crispy and denser than it should be. I think my next attempt will back off on the oil some.

I am curious why there are no intensive clone attempts for the PH T&C on here. There are Pizza Inn, Shakey's, etc. but not much in the way of Pizza Hut's Thin & Crispy. Perhaps people here were not particularly fond of that particular pizza?

Oh there are plenty of people here who love the old, old school PH thin pizza....it's just really difficult to make in a home oven. And with the Pizza Inn and Shakeys threads, well, they're all three very similar so I suppose it's easiest to just grab a recipe there when the 'ol T&C urge strikes.

1. Going in at 6AM to make the dough for the day I would mix up a batch of thin dough, put it in the bag and container, and that would be the thin dough for the day. I'd say it was in the bag 6-7 hours before first use, and then would be in that bag all day. So this dough was "complete" and ready to use in 6-7 hrs and then remained relatively unchanged for another 10 hours or so. This would imply low yeast amounts.

I've made the same assumption (low yeast) in the past when I've tried to make pizzas resembling PH thin. Years later, having made hundreds more pizzas, and in conjunction with some ideas Peter (Pete-zza) has shared recently in my unleavened thread, I'm inclined to think there's a lot more yeast in a PH thin dough than might seem evident.

I now see the big picture a little more clearly, and I realize yeast acts much more slowly in stiff doughs than in softer doughs. And as you know, Pizza Hut thin dough is very stiff. Also, as a same-day dough, it needs more yeast than a 2- or 3-day dough needs. That's at least three different factors that typically require a high yeast content (stiff dough, same-day dough, and room-temperature ferment). So I would not be surprised if PH thin dough actually requires several times more yeast than a standard 2-day refrigerated NY style dough of 60% hydration (soft dough, long fermentation period, cold ferment).

(Having been a driver at Pizza Hut in the early 90s, I have a lot experience sheeting and panning the thin dough, but no experience making it.)

Also, I just want to point out that if you went in at 6:00, you probably didn't mix the dough until 6:30 or 7:00. The dough would need to be ready to use by around 10:30. That leaves about 5 hours between mixing and using, not 6 or 7. Similar to what you said, at the stores where I worked, one batch of dough would last all day.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

No doubt, many of our members fondly remember the days of the original PH T&C that rfmfla talks about. That was before PH went to frozen doughs (in the U.S. at least). I have a 2008 PH ingredients list and the last dough ingredient in the list for the T&C dough is yeast. That can mean that the dough is frozen or possibly it is a same day low hydration dough that needs more yeast for fermentation purposes, flavor, or both. If rpmfla is interested in the 2008 PH R&C dough ingredients list, I can give it to him.

Apart from the fact that most of our active members--those who spend a lot of time on the forum--are not particularly fond of chain pizzas, there is little payback to the forum or its members to spend any appreciable time, and maybe even some personal money, to reverse engineer and clone chain pizzas. The people who are most interested in chain pizza are those who do Google or other searches loohing for clone or copycat chain pizza recipes. In many cases, they are directed to our forum. Once they get here and have to register, which they do, they leave as soon as they find what they are looking for. They give nothing back to the forum other than an inflated membership list. No thank you's, no feedback, no money.

I've made the same assumption (low yeast) in the past when I've tried to make pizzas resembling PH thin. Years later, having made hundreds more pizzas, and in conjunction with some ideas Peter (Pete-zza) has shared recently in my unleavened thread, I'm inclined to think there's a lot more yeast in a PH thin dough than might seem evident.

I now see the big picture a little more clearly, and I realize yeast acts much more slowly in stiff doughs than in softer doughs. And as you know, Pizza Hut thin dough is very stiff. Also, as a same-day dough, it needs more yeast than a 2- or 3-day dough needs. That's at least three different factors that typically require a high yeast content (stiff dough, same-day dough, and room-temperature ferment). So I would not be surprised if PH thin dough actually requires several times more yeast than a standard 2-day refrigerated NY style dough of 60% hydration (soft dough, long fermentation period, cold ferment).

But what really necessitates high yeast levels in the sheeted cracker-like dough? It would impart a nice flavor but would it add to the texture? I was reading Steve's posts in the Shakey's thread with interest and may try his recipe with absolutely no yeast.

I have a 2008 PH ingredients list and the last dough ingredient in the list for the T&C dough is yeast.

Last ingredient listed means there's less of it than any other ingredient, right? I would expect almost all doughs to have less yeast than any other ingredient (except possibly salt); especially the chains, who probably all use IDY. You kinda seem to be confirming what I said in my previous post, but I'm not making the connection of how it helps confirm what I said.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

The Chicago thin crust pizza dough I made in the early 70's was balled up an put in the reach in usually by 3 pm and it would start getting used when we opened at 5. It had cake yeast in it, and a lot of it too. The whole kitchen would smell of it when I made that dough. Lard was whisked into the flour to begin it's preparation. This pizza was cooked on thin metal pans with a lip on them in a deck oven.Does anyone know how PH cooked the T&C back in the day? Temp.?

I was reading Steve's posts in the Shakey's thread with interest and may try his recipe with absolutely no yeast.

I've made a couple pizzas in the last ten days using no yeast. I don't want to sway your thinking by directing you to that thread, but I'd say it's pretty thorough. Make your no-yeast pizza, then check out my thread (if you haven't already). It would be interesting for me to know your thoughts after doing it.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Last ingredient listed means there's less of it than any other ingredient, right? I would expect almost all doughs to have less yeast than any other ingredient (except possibly salt); especially the chains, who probably all use IDY. You kinda seem to be confirming what I said in my previous post, but I'm not making the connection of how it helps confirm what I said.

Ryan,

You are correct. I misspoke. Last in the list means there is less yeast, by weight, than the rest of the ingredients. The sequence is flour (bleached and enriched and malted), water, partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, soybean and/or cottonseed oil, salt, yeast. However, the actual amount of yeast can still be high, especially if the amount of salt, which is just ahead of the yeast, is high. That is what I was thinking when I posted earlier. In frozen dough, the yeast is often high because freezing kills some of the yeast.

We used cutter pans on a conveyor oven. I grabbed a blob of dough out of the bag/container and ran it through the sheeter top, turned it 90 degrees and ran it through the lower rollers onto the pan, then docked it. There was a short lip on the cutter pans that we could grab with pliers to remove from the oven. I seem to recall the ovens set to 485, but I could be way off on that as it was a very long time ago (late 70s)

All I know is this: sheeted > placed on seasoned cutter pan > docked > trimmed > sauce, cheese, toppings > conveyor oven. Usually straight from the sheeter to the make table, but during busy times there might be about 20 skins already sheeted (and kept in a cooler, I believe) for a very short time.

I assume before conveyor ovens they did everything about the same, until the oven part.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

We used cutter pans on a conveyor oven. I grabbed a blob of dough out of the bag/container and ran it through the sheeter top, turned it 90 degrees and ran it through the lower rollers onto the pan, then docked it. There was a short lip on the cutter pans that we could grab with pliers to remove from the oven. I seem to recall the ovens set to 485, but I could be way off on that as it was a very long time ago (late 70s)

Interesting, I didn't know they used conveyors back then.Now, I don't want to put words in your mouth cause this is kinda important to me....but do you think it is possible that the oven could have been at 385 rather than 485? Do you remember how long it took to bake>>

Interesting, I didn't know they used conveyors back then.Now, I don't want to put words in your mouth cause this is kinda important to me....but do you think it is possible that the oven could have been at 385 rather than 485? Do you remember how long it took to bake>>

I seem to recall 7-8 minutes...again, it was long time ago but I am pretty sure it was somewhere between 450 and 500.

The same oven and time was used for the Pan Pizzas. There was a small door that was half way through the oven and that was where we put the sandwiches (to toast) and pasta dishes (to lightly brown the cheese on top), so they got half the time the pizzas did.

Since the Pan Pizzas were literally swimming in oil, one could say they were actually just as much fried as baked, so I can't imagine the temps being lower than upper 400's.

Unless I missed something, everything rpmfla has said in the last two or three posts is in line with my memories. I never paid attention to the oven temp back then, but I can't see it being anything but 450-500. I'm kinda surprised they had conveyor ovens in the 70s, though.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Unless I missed something, everything rmpfla has said in the last two or three posts is in line with my memories. I never paid attention to the oven temp back then, but I can't see it being anything but 450-500. I'm kinda surprised they had conveyor ovens in the 70s, though.

A little known fact:

There are actually drawings in the Lascaux Caves resembling a primitive conveyor oven.

You know, I haven't been inside a Pizza Hut in years! Occasionally people at my workplace will order a PH Pan pizza for lunch delivery and I will have a piece.

Since I make pizza regularly at home, I rarely eat it out, especially for dinner. I go to Peter Taylor's Woodfired Pizza and a new place called Pizza Squared:Detroit Style Pizza about once a month each, but thanks to a lot of work and research on this site, my home pizzas are better than what I can get out.

You know, I haven't been inside a Pizza Hut in years! Occasionally people at my workplace will order a PH Pan pizza for lunch delivery and I will have a piece.

Since I make pizza regularly at home, I rarely eat it out, especially for dinner. I go to Peter Taylor's Woodfired Pizza and a new place called Pizza Squared:Detroit Style Pizza about once a month each, but thanks to a lot of work and research on this site, my home pizzas are better than what I can get out.

I am still working on this cracker style though.

I hear a lot of people say PH pan is pretty good...do you like it? Is the bottom always crispy/fried like or is it hit or miss?

I hear a lot of people say PH pan is pretty good...do you like it? Is the bottom always crispy/fried like or is it hit or miss?

As infrequently as I have had it in the last several years, I'd say hit or miss.

I have a nostalgic feeling about my years there long ago and I know we all tried to make quality food within the rigid parameters. My boss was very laid back and we were buddies, so the work environment was very stress free for me.

I read here that they switched over to using frozen dough...anybody know when that was?

I found a Dec. 2009 PH document at http://www.docstoc.com/docs/32523904/Pizza-Hut-Ingredients-Aug-04 that shows, at page 2, the ingredients that go into a PH/Edge Thin 'N Crispy pizza, to wit: Water and a pre-mix that includes enriched and malted bleached flour, salt, yeast, sugar, soybean oil and sucralose. Pre-mixes are intended to be used at the store level, so it is not clear where the PH T&C pizza using the above ingredients is intended to be made. It could be outside of the U.S.

Unless I missed something, everything rpmfla has said in the last two or three posts is in line with my memories. I never paid attention to the oven temp back then, but I can't see it being anything but 450-500. I'm kinda surprised they had conveyor ovens in the 70s, though.

I think they had a standard deck oven (two stacked I think) when I started so it wasn't until the early/mid 80's that the conveyor replaced these. Sorry for the misinformation...it was a long time ago! Also, my first post here stated "during my college days back in the mid-70's"...I started college in '77 but I didn't start working at PH until about 1981. Embarrassingly (but enjoyably), I took a very long time to get through undergrad! (I got within one Art History course of graduating in the standard 4 years...and all the way to the final exam for that...and dropped out, only to then work at Pizza Hut for a few years before getting my act together and finishing my BFA).