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MyD4rkPassenger

Posted 30 October 2017 - 06:19 PM

MyD4rkPassenger

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Chapter Name: CSM/Imperium

If I were a space marine I probably wouldn't take to the field with one. They are relics of a lost age at this point, a vestige of a time when the chapter was something greater than it is now. To lose one would not only be utterly devastating to the chapter, but the greatest shame upon the wielder. Secondly I think they are more symbols of authority. Take the Talon and Gorechild as you have stated, they are wielded by the greatest champions of their legions, and those two have the greatest group of followers of their legion behind them. A more extreme example could be Guilliman taking up his father's sword, it sets a precedent to lead. The wielder must accept the responsibility of stepping into their Primarch's (or in Robute's case the Emperor's) shoes. I feel at this point only the chapter masters would dare to wield their gene father's weapons, and even then second founding and on probably would relegate the honor to their first founding brothers. I, as a space marine, would simply venerate them as examples of how my brother's and I should be. (All of this is from a loyalist view, examples show the traitors don't really care about honoring their fathers all that much.)

There are cases of remnants of weapons, or war-gear that wasn't always favored, such as the high marshal's blade and pistols and so on. These are relics of the primarchs, however I wouldn't put them up with things like Sanguinius' spear, Manus' hammer, Dorn's chainsword etc which are much more iconic.

Edited by MyD4rkPassenger, 30 October 2017 - 06:20 PM.

Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra, Chaplain Dosjetka, Trevak Dal and 1 other like this

Claws and Effect

Posted 30 October 2017 - 07:07 PM

Claws and Effect

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Not all the Primarch's weapons are just sitting around. Shrike uses the Raven's Talons, which were allegedly built by Corax himself to replace the lightning talons destroyed during the Dropsite Massacre.

The biggest problem is scale. ​Look at the Lion Sword that Cypher is hauling around and how fething huge it is. That is a one-handed sword scaled to being wielded by a 12 foot tall Primarch. There is no way an 8 foot tall Marine can possibly wield it effectively. Pretty much all of the Primarch weapons are similar in scale.

Another example still in use: The Gauntlet of the Forge. It looks power fist sized, but it was probably just a glove for Vulkan.

I heard a theory a while back that the Teeth of Terra is actually Rogal Dorn's chainsword Storm's Teeth. No proof, but it seems plausible.

And the "priceless relic of the chapter" view is a valid one. This is a relic of your frigging Primarch. Do you want to take the chance of being the guy who gets killed while fighting an Ork Warboss and having your Primarch's irreplaceable weapon become his new Big Choppa?

On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared.

Leif Bearclaw

Posted 30 October 2017 - 07:17 PM

On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared.

Lost and abandoned in the rubble on Armatura, just like Gorechild was. Khârn only found the one axe after Angron's rampage and ordered it rebuilt (going against WE tradition), so I assume Gorefather was either more wrecked, or buried more comprehensively.

Storm's Teeth is probably gone too. IIRC the book Legion of the Damned covers a Feast of Blades, and it turns out the prize for the winning Chapter is 'The Dornsblade', said to be the weapon Dorn made for his use after breaking the sword he carried onto the Vengeful Spirit due to grief/failure. But then again, that may just be rumour and legend, because the blade in question isn't exactly 'Primarch sized'...

blackoption

Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:17 PM

On another note: We all know Khârn is using Gorechild, but whatever happened to Gorefather? Angron stopped using it when he ascended, and it just kinda disappeared.

Lost and abandoned in the rubble on Armatura, just like Gorechild was. Khârn only found the one axe after Angron's rampage and ordered it rebuilt (going against WE tradition), so I assume Gorefather was either more wrecked, or buried more comprehensively.

Gorefather was a relic that a World Eater's Legion army could field in the last edition. So it is safe to assume it is still blooding the galaxy.

DuskRaider

Posted 30 October 2017 - 08:32 PM

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I thought Angron kept Gorefather but tossed Gorechild. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read Betrayer. Also, I do believe Sanguinius' sword was completely shattered by Horus and, as was said prior, given to the founding members of the Black Legion.

I would say the biggest reason they're no longer used is they're most likely the last link to their primogenitor... perhaps with the exception of Dorn's Fist of Fail and Sanguinius' corpse.

karden00

Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:20 AM

Angron chucked Gorefather same time as Gorechild. He used two chainswords on Nuceria.

Also regarding size of weapons, isn't Calgar only able to wield the Gauntlets due to his augmetics?

Glad you mentioned The Gauntlets. I don't recall if the sources say that Roboute specifically used them, but it has certainly been fact for a long time that Roboute won them from a fell Chaos champion and that they have been a symbol of the Ultramarines and only The Lord Macragge could wear them, yada yada yada......

With all respect to the OP, because I think it could be real fun to track down what happened to all the juicy bits of wargear, (even if they suffer inglorious fates like just being lost/rust to death/whateverhaveyouovertenthousandyears) sometimes these questions make me kinda cringe. One thing I loved about Know No Fear was Thiel's awe at Guilliman's armory. Sure, Guilliman had a ton of stuff, but I never once, despite everything I know and love (and want to believe) about my Primarch, that the XIIIth primarch was unique in this. What Primarch wouldnt have a ton of stuff? It is a wonderful and necessary thing that we have named wargear, but I cannot conceive of Primarch's not having a silly amount of stuff to play with.

Urriak Urruk likes this

'Lorgar has his own battles to fight, Erebus,' replied Horus sharply. 'Should he fail at Calth, all this will be for nothing if Guilliman's Legion is allowed to intervene.
You can always ally the Dark Angels to your current ultramarine force.
Never.
My Ultramarines aren't taking the field with traitors.
That's what Dark Vengeance is. A box of traitors.

KhorneHunter57x

Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:34 AM

KhorneHunter57x

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Storm's Teeth is probably gone too. IIRC the book Legion of the Damned covers a Feast of Blades, and it turns out the prize for the winning Chapter is 'The Dornsblade', said to be the weapon Dorn made for his use after breaking the sword he carried onto the Vengeful Spirit due to grief/failure. But then again, that may just be rumour and legend, because the blade in question isn't exactly 'Primarch sized'...

And the blade Dorn broke was re-forged into the Sword of the High Marshals, currently in the possession of the Chapter Master of the Black Templars.

"Zeal and fury are rewarded with victory." -Dawn of War II

I prefer to think that bolt weapons do, in fact, use cased ammunition - mostly for the reasons you state. It looks cool. They jingle when they hit hard ground. It's like the Emperor's wind chimes.

battle captain corpus

Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:29 AM

Plus after 10,000 years things get misplaced and left in now abandoned chambers etc. I lose my house keys all the time!

BCC

"As inexorable as the winter cold, as ruthless as the bitter frost, as certain as death - the Valhallans fight only for victory and the Emperor. All else is a prelude." - Colonel Kasteen, 597th Company

Closet Skeleton

Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

Closet Skeleton

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Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head?

he doesn't duh, that's why he has a watcher carry it for him. If Azrael got an updated model the helmet would be scaled up like Cypher's sword was (and need two or more watchers). Primarchs used to be much more sensibly sized.

Charlo

Posted 31 October 2017 - 01:26 PM

Charlo

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It's been 10,000 years.

Most of them will be lost, replaced by fakes, shadows of their former selves or just plain irreplaceable.

I'd imagine most Chapters would rather hang the weapon in their Fortress Monastery and have the marines kneel and be blessed by it rather than take it into battle and risk losing it and bringing some forever shame to themselves.

Urriak Urruk

Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:38 PM

But what about weapons like the Spear of Russ, which was gifted to Bjorn by Leman himself? You would think the chapter would think "He gave it to us to use, not just let sit around."

Same logic for Sanguinius' sword, which he gave to Belarius.

Belarius has mostly been replaced by Raldoron. Also, it was necessarily his personal sword, it was a sword he gifted to him.

Anyways literally both examples you provided are examples of why you *shouldn't* do it. Literally both got lost.

Haha I guess that's true isn't it?

I suppose I'm just miffed that these objects are part of the lore and just sit unused for 10,000 years. Seems like a waste to me.

Side-note, how does Azrael wear the Lion Helm? Does he have a big head?

he doesn't duh, that's why he has a watcher carry it for him. If Azrael got an updated model the helmet would be scaled up like Cypher's sword was (and need two or more watchers). Primarchs used to be much more sensibly sized.

Why the heck do you have a helmet if its only purpose is to have your midget sidekick carry it?

Also this;

Another side-note, do you think a Primaris in Gravis armor could pick up a weapon like Forgefather? Or still "NOPE too heavy!"

Ulfgrim Alvsbane

Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:42 PM

Ulfgrim Alvsbane

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Chapter Name: Ultramarines

Presumably, because the helmet does more than protect one's head. Even if it provides no actual protection to Azrael, it is a powerful symbol to his fellow Dark Angels - as valuable as an ancient battle standard, and every Chapter bears those into battle all the time.

It's a relic of their Primarch and surely stirs them to greater courage (and in the case of Dark Angels, obstinance )

Closet Skeleton

Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:31 PM

Why the heck do you have a helmet if its only purpose is to have your midget sidekick carry it?

Why have a midget sidekick to carry your Force field generator if you were just going to put it on your head.

Presumably, because the helmet does more than protect one's head. Even if it provides no actual protection to Azrael, it is a powerful symbol to his fellow Dark Angels - as valuable as an ancient battle standard, and every Chapter bears those into battle all the time.

Or maybe its some kind of Force field generator.

The helmet would be like a catholic relic. Being in the mere presence of it does miracles.