Here's what I'm wondering. The hero has the meeting with the godess, basically, forming a close relationship with a female character. So what will this phase look like for a female protagonist? The ST will likely have a female protagonist.

In that actual chapter of the book, it's really got nothing to do with male/female at all.

It's about recognizing both "good" and "bad" in the creator, realizing the creator is also a destroyer, but loving it anyways because you're one of the few who understand it. The unworthy person who tried to approach this being (called the "goddess" in the book) would instead be consumed or worse. Think of the Nazis when they found the Ark of the Covenant, or the Soviet lady played by Cate Blanchett when she found the aliens and asked for knowledge. Only the worthy is capable of encountering the "goddess" and coming out intact, but will still be forever changed.

In the OT, Vader was essentially this figure. Luke was able to recognize Vader had both good and bad, realized he's a creator and a destroyer of the galaxy as it is, but loved Vader anyways because he was one of the few in the position of understanding him (when he stopped striking Vader, looked at his hand, and threw away his lightsaber). All who encountered Vader before were unworthy of doing this, of being in the position to understand and love him. And then Vader fulfilled his role, and destroyed the Emperor he helped create, while saving Luke and allowing the re-creation of the Jedi, again forever transforming the galaxy.

Even though the Hero's Journey was drawn upon for A New Hope, Campbell's theories are not an end-all be-all formula for how Star Wars is going to play out. Monomythology is more of an extremely vague roadmap to which stories are compared after the fact. And Star Wars is a work of art, meaning implicitly that not even its creators will truly know what it will look like until it is finished. The Hero's Journey/Monomyth tends to be overrated, while George Lucas' pre-vision of Star Wars is frequently overestimated.

See my signature. What it's really trying to say is that creating a myth is harder than it looks, can't be all things to all people, and will evolve drastically over the course of creation. All myths probably have these things in common more than Campbell's theories!

Even though the Hero's Journey was drawn upon for A New Hope, Campbell's theories are not an end-all be-all formula for how Star Wars is going to play out. Monomythology is more of an extremely vague roadmap to which stories are compared after the fact. And Star Wars is a work of art, meaning implicitly that not even its creators will truly know what it will look like until it is finished. The Hero's Journey/Monomyth tends to be overrated, while George Lucas' pre-vision of Star Wars is frequently overestimated.

See my signature. What it's really trying to say is that creating a myth is harder than it looks, can't be all things to all people, and will evolve drastically over the course of creation. All myths probably have these things in common more than Campbell's theories!

Don't you mean underestimated?

Anyways, creating a fictional universe and being influenced by the Hero's Journey are very much two different things. The former is process of creating a story's setting, as well as the inner mechanics of society and reality in that setting. This also can include creating the back-stories and personality traits of the story's characters. The Hero's Journey is one of several common plot structures and the meanings behind key events in such stories.

The plot of Star Wars, or at least the Skywalker Saga, is very much influenced by Campbell and the Hero's Journey. This is by no means a slight against George Lucas, nor does it take anything away from the incredible universe he envisioned that this particular journey is set in. Aside from what Tolkien did with his creation of Middle-Earth (which is simply inhuman in specific details compared to any other storyteller I've ever come across), Lucas' creation of the Star Wars mythos is one of the most vast and detailed settings in a fictional story out there.

You're right and let me get the discussion back on track with a question I've been mulling over since I created this thread. It involves the Ultimate Boon portion of the Hero's Journey:

The Ultimate Boon

The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven." [12]

I would say it's clear that Luke's boon is the knowledge to become a Jedi Knight and he can share his knowledge with the society he lives in by rebuilding the Jedi Order. But what is the Ultimate Boon for Anakin and how does he bestow it onto the galaxy? In my opinion the boon is simply freedom. In TPM we first meet Anakin as a slave on the planet Tatooine. He receives the call to adventure when Qui-Gon arrives and he wins his freedom by winning the podrace. But is he truly free at the end of the film? He is a Jedi padawan and he lives under the tight restrictions of the Jedi Order. He can't visit the places he wants or do the things he wants or be with the people he loves. He is clearly chaffing under these obligations and clearly wants to break free. So tragically in ROTS he falls to the dark side and enslaves not only himself to the Emperor but helps enslave the entire galaxy. Throughout the OT we see the Empire and in particular Darth Vader oppress the galaxy and this all leads up to when he must choose between his son and his master. So by destroying the Emperor he not only finally frees himself but also gives freedom back to the galaxy he helped take it away from. So my question is: Do others see this as I do or do you see something else? Also regarding the ST, what could the Ultimate Boon for our new hero be?

Let me humbly submit my own theory. Perhaps the boon for this new hero is forgiveness. Anakin has already been redeemed but I see it much more difficult for the galaxy and his descendents to simply forgive and forget. Perhaps Luke is rebuilding the Jedi Order but the galaxy has not yet forgiven the Jedi for the role they played in Palpatine's rise to power and so Luke must rebuild in secret far away from the center of the New Republic. Perhaps Anakin's descendents have not yet forgiven him. I've given my theory in a different thread that the hero could be struggling with the Skywalker legacy and fear that they could become another Darth Vader. This could manifest itself in the hero repressing their powers to the point where Luke believes they have no Force sensitivity. So the Hero's Journey could be about him/her accepting his/her powers, forgiving Anakin for his crimes and atoning with Luke. The hero's victory could then show the galaxy that they can forgive the Jedi and once more trust them to be the guardians of peace and justice. So just as Luke's Journey helped his father bestow his boon on the galaxy so too could the new hero's Journey help Luke bestow his boon on society.

I think this is a great theory and could very well be accurate. However, I also feel that perhaps the new hero's boon could be identity.

The legacy of Anakin Skywalker played a great part in Luke's journey, and I can only imagine Anakin's grandchild(ren) would have a more amplified version of that. After all, not only would they be the descendant(s) of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, but they would also have the legacy of their parents to deal with as well. Whether or not the protagonist is the child of Luke or of Han and Leia, they still have the entire trio's accomplishments looming over them alongside the feats of Anakin and evils of Vader.

So how would this hero be able to break free of the legacy they've inherited? By realizing their own identity. That being said, I could see identity and forgiveness going hand-in-hand here and both could as the ultimate boon for our new hero.

I completely agree and it's part of the reason why I thought an interesting way to explore the theme of identity would be a Skywalker or Solo who is so afraid of that legacy and what it did to his/her grandfather that it manifests itself in a repression of their Force powers. I think it would an interesting new angle for the hero and would allow for a story where they have to accept who they are before they can confront the big bad.

You're right and let me get the discussion back on track with a question I've been mulling over since I created this thread. It involves the Ultimate Boon portion of the Hero's Journey:

The Ultimate Boon

The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven." [12]

I would say it's clear that Luke's boon is the knowledge to become a Jedi Knight and he can share his knowledge with the society he lives in by rebuilding the Jedi Order. But what is the Ultimate Boon for Anakin and how does he bestow it onto the galaxy? In my opinion the boon is simply freedom. In TPM we first meet Anakin as a slave on the planet Tatooine. He receives the call to adventure when Qui-Gon arrives and he wins his freedom by winning the podrace. But is he truly free at the end of the film? He is a Jedi padawan and he lives under the tight restrictions of the Jedi Order. He can't visit the places he wants or do the things he wants or be with the people he loves. He is clearly chaffing under these obligations and clearly wants to break free. So tragically in ROTS he falls to the dark side and enslaves not only himself to the Emperor but helps enslave the entire galaxy. Throughout the OT we see the Empire and in particular Darth Vader oppress the galaxy and this all leads up to when he must choose between his son and his master. So by destroying the Emperor he not only finally frees himself but also gives freedom back to the galaxy he helped take it away from. So my question is: Do others see this as I do or do you see something else? Also regarding the ST, what could the Ultimate Boon for our new hero be?

Let me humbly submit my own theory. Perhaps the boon for this new hero is forgiveness. Anakin has already been redeemed but I see it much more difficult for the galaxy and his descendents to simply forgive and forget. Perhaps Luke is rebuilding the Jedi Order but the galaxy has not yet forgiven the Jedi for the role they played in Palpatine's rise to power and so Luke must rebuild in secret far away from the center of the New Republic. Perhaps Anakin's descendents have not yet forgiven him. I've given my theory in a different thread that the hero could be struggling with the Skywalker legacy and fear that they could become another Darth Vader. This could manifest itself in the hero repressing their powers to the point where Luke believes they have no Force sensitivity. So the Hero's Journey could be about him/her accepting his/her powers, forgiving Anakin for his crimes and atoning with Luke. The hero's victory could then show the galaxy that they can forgive the Jedi and once more trust them to be the guardians of peace and justice. So just as Luke's Journey helped his father bestow his boon on the galaxy so too could the new hero's Journey help Luke bestow his boon on society.

I think this is a great theory and could very well be accurate. However, I also feel that perhaps the new hero's boon could be identity.

The legacy of Anakin Skywalker played a great part in Luke's journey, and I can only imagine Anakin's grandchild(ren) would have a more amplified version of that. After all, not only would they be the descendant(s) of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, but they would also have the legacy of their parents to deal with as well. Whether or not the protagonist is the child of Luke or of Han and Leia, they still have the entire trio's accomplishments looming over them alongside the feats of Anakin and evils of Vader.

So how would this hero be able to break free of the legacy they've inherited? By realizing their own identity. That being said, I could see identity and forgiveness going hand-in-hand here and both could as the ultimate boon for our new hero.

I completely agree and it's part of the reason why I thought an interesting way to explore the theme of identity would be a Skywalker or Solo who is so afraid of that legacy and what it did to his/her grandfather that it manifests itself in a repression of their Force powers. I think it would an interesting new angle for the hero and would allow for a story where they have to accept who they are before they can confront the big bad.

By extension, I think it would be a brilliant move to see the Big Bad recognize and capitalize on the new hero's feelings towards their inherited legacy in their initial confrontation(s). Darth Vader's revelation to Luke of his true status as his father, alongside his comments about Obi-Wan and how Luke was not yet a Jedi, were similar in this regard by turning Luke's idols and goals against him in their first true confrontation with one another in The Empire Strikes Back.

Even though the Hero's Journey was drawn upon for A New Hope, Campbell's theories are not an end-all be-all formula for how Star Wars is going to play out. Monomythology is more of an extremely vague roadmap to which stories are compared after the fact. And Star Wars is a work of art, meaning implicitly that not even its creators will truly know what it will look like until it is finished. The Hero's Journey/Monomyth tends to be overrated, while George Lucas' pre-vision of Star Wars is frequently overestimated.

See my signature. What it's really trying to say is that creating a myth is harder than it looks, can't be all things to all people, and will evolve drastically over the course of creation. All myths probably have these things in common more than Campbell's theories!

Don't you mean underestimated?

Anyways, creating a fictional universe and being influenced by the Hero's Journey are very much two different things. The former is process of creating a story's setting, as well as the inner mechanics of society and reality in that setting. This also can include creating the back-stories and personality traits of the story's characters. The Hero's Journey is one of several common plot structures and the meanings behind key events in such stories.

The plot of Star Wars, or at least the Skywalker Saga, is very much influenced by Campbell and the Hero's Journey. This is by no means a slight against George Lucas, nor does it take anything away from the incredible universe he envisioned that this particular journey is set in. Aside from what Tolkien did with his creation of Middle-Earth (which is simply inhuman in specific details compared to any other storyteller I've ever come across), Lucas' creation of the Star Wars mythos is one of the most vast and detailed settings in a fictional story out there.

I meant overestimated because many of the central elements of the saga were created the by the seat of his pants - for example Vader wasn't even supposed to be Luke's father until the making of Empire Strikes Back, and Star Wars wasn't 'Anakin Skywalker's saga' until the prequels defined it as such.

The term mythopoeia refers to the independent invention of myth, IE, creating a non-extant fictional setting and its rules. Tolkien and CS Lewis were really the first to do it in Rings and Narnia, but now it's everywhere, especially Star Wars. Mythopoeia is what links world-building and monomyth theory together almost inextricably, because if a creator is inventing a new world, it is inevitably a metaphor for this world, making the invented world a myth by definition, and thus subject to mythology. The world-building is secondary to and frequently dependent upon the primary narrative, which in A New Hope's case, was The Hero's Journey. I think that by the later episodes, GL learned to follow his storytelling instinct rather than to constantly refer back to Campbell. But because Star Wars is a myth both by nature and by invention, the whole saga is mythically resonant, with or without consideration for The Hero's Journey or any mythologic theory. There's a difference between myth and mythology. To put it simply, Myth is being enthralled by the story in progress, and mythology is talking about it afterward. Myth begets Mythology.

I don't know if this responds to you effectively, but these are things I learned firsthand from creating my own fictional universe.

I completely agree and it's part of the reason why I thought an interesting way to explore the theme of identity would be a Skywalker or Solo who is so afraid of that legacy and what it did to his/her grandfather that it manifests itself in a repression of their Force powers. I think it would an interesting new angle for the hero and would allow for a story where they have to accept who they are before they can confront the big bad.

Meet Cade Skywalker, Luke's great-great-grandson who was born about 120 years after the battle of endor:

It just goes to show how hard it will be for the ST to come up with heroes and villains and themes and plots that haven't already been covered by the EU...

Well I think the theme of a reluctant hero is a very interesting one to explore (probably why they did so with Cade ) but I think there are many ways to do it. You can create a character that's completely different from Cade and still deal with the themes of identity and legacy that he struggles with. Being the offspring of Luke Skywalker or Han and Leia Solo is naturally going to come with some struggles. Those are big shoes to fill.

It just goes to show how hard it will be for the ST to come up with heroes and villains and themes and plots that haven't already been covered by the EU...

That's been a risk since the beginning; if it should happen, whether we accept it or reject it will depend entirely upon execution; in other words, if it's done well, it's forgiveable; if it's not, it isn't.

One thing that really bothers me about those Stormtroopers is that they haven't changed from the time of the films. I really think the next films should evolve from the technology of the OT and the PT.