by Microelite7711 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:34 am ([msg=43154]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

mRmasteRful wrote:Point taken most of HTS users may be Christians and it is well known but for once I would like to hear a jew or maybe a muslim defend their belief in a God(s). Not for the sake of right or wrong but just to read something of interest.

Cool, I'm glad you see my way. Now I have to admit the topic of Christianity is getting a little dry and it would be nice to hear about another God. That would be hilarious to see someone defend Scientology (HAHA ) That would be interesting for me big time!

Oh yeah, since I think your on right now. Check my new topic, it's going to be hilarious. I'm going to use the tactics Christians use on atheists This is going to be fun to write! It should be up in like 20 minutes or less.

by Vulpine on Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:36 pm ([msg=43425]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

When I lived in Florida, I would see them walking around in packs. It was either in Palmetto or St Petersburg... I honestly don't recall which, but it was more than a little creepy. At the time, they would wear identical blue shirts with black slacks and a tie, and I never saw one of them alone. It reminded me of some slasher-film Jehovah's Witnesses...

by Microelite7711 on Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:09 pm ([msg=43478]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

Vulpine wrote:When I lived in Florida, I would see them walking around in packs. It was either in Palmetto or St Petersburg... I honestly don't recall which, but it was more than a little creepy. At the time, they would wear identical blue shirts with black slacks and a tie, and I never saw one of them alone. It reminded me of some slasher-film Jehovah's Witnesses...

Haha, that's awesome. Aren't they annoying when that dude says, "What do you have to hide?" when the dude is just there to record!!! I mean if he was trying to hide he would be there! God damn! They piss me off!!!

by markt4death on Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:28 pm ([msg=60696]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

You all have interesting ideas but your assumptions may need to be based on fairly general Bible knowledge that lacks the necessary specifics needed to stay solid.

First, the perfection question about God not being perfect because stuff isn't done (although already shot down quite well) is actually explainable in the fact that God is infinite in both directions. He always was, is, and always will be. In fact, when Gen 1:1 says "In the beginning..." It means at the start of Creation; and since the start or change of something is the only way to define time, and God is unchanging Himself, it follows that when God created... he created time too.

Next, "all scripture is God breathed" means that even though it is true that men wrote the Bible, they did it by the inspiration of God, and since God is perfect, so is the Bible. In fact it is called the living word of God and is "sharper than any two edged sword. The so-called errors in the Bible have been punctuation marks, disproved, or are remnants of rewritings done by an offshoot cult created in Egypt soon after the early Church was established. They decided that they only wanted to believe what fit into their personal ideas and logic so they changed parts of their copies of the Bible to fit those ideals. The died off in a few hundred years and the vast majority of all Bibles used today come from the original churches, however the first person who conclusively proves the Bible is false gets fame like none have ever seen; and with that motivation, archeologists in Egypt and the surrounding area have been using those rewritten texts for years as "proof" that the Christianity is crap. God has protected the integrity of His Word for a long time and no one has come close to that fame.

Next comes the idea of Paul being forced by God to join Him. Paul was on his way to Damascus because he believed he was doing God's work by killing Christians. Jesus met him on the road, blinded him, and asked him why he was persecuting Him. He then directs Paul to a Christian in Damascus so he might be healed from his blindness and told the truth about the Messiah and why what he was doing was counterproductive to God. In no way did God force Paul to switch sides. He simply helped Paul connect the dots that allowed him to realize whose side was really right.

As for Jesus choosing the disciples, God has always been quite clear on the fact that He has a plan for everyone's life should we choose to answer His call. It is always about choice and I personally think the fact he chose common laborers instead of religious leaders says a lot about who God intends to spread His message. Another thing you might want to consider is that every disciple was persecuted for their beliefs and all of them save John was martyred for his faith (John was exiled on the island of Patmus where he ended up writing Revelations). If these eye witnesses didn't believe Jesus performed the miracles recorded by them in the first 4 books of the New Testament (I didn't include Luke on purpose) or that He didn't raise Himself up from the dead and present Himself to, not only the disciples that spent years with Him but thousands of others who later formed the early Church, does anyone really believe they would be willing to be tortured, beaten, and killed in order to defend that belief?

Finally, the disciples and Paul were not the only ones to help write the New Testament. Luke, a doctor, researched first person accounts when he wrote the 5th book and I don't think anyone really knows who wrote Hebrews.

If you actually made it this far, congratulations. I wrote a lot, I know. I respect all your opinions but realize that debating very rarely leads to any sort of change of opinion

by edone automaton on Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:20 am ([msg=60891]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

markt4death wrote:You all have interesting ideas but your assumptions may need to be based on fairly general Bible knowledge that lacks the necessary specifics needed to stay solid.

For my money, basing ones assumptions on fairly general knowledge whilst not ideal, beats basing them on pure fantasy every time.

To mirror a comment of your own, I'm not trying to piss anyone off either. I have both religious/ spiritual and non religious friends, some, like yourself, are reasonable and open to discussion, others not so much. Its an issue that is unlikely to be resolved any time soon but open, non judgemental discussion and clear, honest introspection will get us moving in the right direction.

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer. -Bruce Lee

by augris on Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:30 pm ([msg=63589]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

I guess I am a little late to this argument/discussion, but the original post seemed to indicate that the author had not thought of how God (at least in Catholic theology) is outside of time...this really throws off the entire argument because to God, all of creation and the history of everything has happened, and is happening now. He is omnipresent, to all times.

by Threethumb on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:28 pm ([msg=71730]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

I think the big reason for why God is not perfect is that his creations are not perfect. If he was perfect, anything he made would also be so. No one can deny that if a construction worker makes a building that is not structurally sound, even if everything else he does is flawless, he is not perfect. His perfection is defined by not having a single flaw, neither internally or in terms of what he does externally. In other words, if God makes something that is a failure, then he is not perfect. A perfect being do not make mistakes.

In which case, why did Adam and Eve eat those apples when they were not supposed to? Why did humanity corrupt the earth so much that God regretted making them, and killed all but 2 of each species, male and female, with a large flood? If his creations are flawed, how can we call him flawless?