Godfather77

Hi I'm new to this forum and would like to thank Alex for his hard work in trying to wake up the world to what really is happenning! Being from England I thought for my first post I'd talk about how Britain is going from bad to worse

Unlike many democratic countries Britain has no official constitution. The Magna Carta which served in a minimalistic sense as bill of rights has all but been repealed since 1828. Even one of the few remaining parts of this bill 'Habeas Corpus', which acted as protection against unlawful detention has been shamefully eroded by the passing of recent terror legislation which allows for 30 day detention without trial for any person suspected (not convicted) of terrorist crimes against the state. This was even once used to detain a pensioner who heckled a government minister in a speech!

There has even been talk about the need to increase this detention period to 60 days and unbelievably 90 days to protect society from terrorists. Luckily this motion was not passed but it is likely only a matter of time before it does This inhumane & futile detention period is evident in the fact that the vast majority detained under this pretext are released without charge.

Since there is neither entrenched constitutional law nor a formal separation of powers, Parliament has the ability to change almost any aspect of the constitution at will. This gives the government almost dictatorial powers against the people and over the past 10 years we have seen numerous example of this. The fact that Labour has passed more new laws than any other government in history and even ignored the will of the people and went to war with Iraq anyway, is just two shocking examples of this!

Has Britain became a better more moral place because of all the new laws passed or has Britain become safer from global terrorism since the war in Iraq? I think the majority of the British would say NO

Additionally, Britain has the most number of surveillance cameras in the world. The average British subject gets filmed up to 300 times per day on surveillance cameras. It is often said if you haven't got anything to worry about why be concerned or the classic line used 'these cameras are their to protect your liberties'? These are just red herrings designed to silence potential critics and it is amazing how many people can be quite naive and not question such erosion's of their liberty.

Britain is also one of the most highly taxed countries in the world and at present we are seeing increasing numbers of hard working Britain's being coined into debt which they cannot escape. House prices are unbelievably high and many young first time buyers have almost no hope in hell of getting a foot on the housing ladder. Under the covert notion of making it easier to buy a new home the government has introduced the home information pack scheme (HIPS) which in reality adds just makes it more complicated to sell your home and adds another £700 onto the cost of selling your home.

Enslavement by money is just one of the issues across the Britain and the rest of the industrial world. Banks and loan companies readily offer easy credit to people merely struggling to survive in a high taxed society and when interest rates go up as they have done many times over the past 18 months people are forced to declare bankruptcy and have their home and any assets taken from them! The government is now proposing mass gambling as the answer to society's woes . It seems much more likely that this will be a means of bringing in revenue following the restrictions on smoking in public and alcohol advertising

The situation in Britain is getting so dire that applications to leave the country in the past 7 years have soared by a huge 80%. Four in ten homes built over the past ten years have been needed because of immigration, figures have revealed. Contrary to government statistics many of those moving to Britain take up low paid professions supplemented by welfare incentives which increase the ever growing burden on the state.

New jails are not being built and the penal system is close to collapse. Convicted felons are now often released wearing security tags so shoddy that increasing numbers are simply ripping the tags off and go back to their life of crime. The deterrent of being sent back to prison is laughable as they know all too well that their are too few jails to house them

Quite worryingly the UK government has already banned freedom of demonstration without police permission within 1/2 mile of Westminster and are now trying to pass a bill that prevents anyone from taking photographs in a public place. If the bill is passed, 'ID' cards will be required to allow photographers (or anyone with a camera!) to operate in a public place no matter who or what they are photographing.

Recently in the news it reported that military personnel working for the MOD are to be censored. They will also be barred from sending text messages, photographs and audio or video material without permission if they relate to defence matters. Unbelievably this also covers playing multi-player computer games. How they are going to control this is another question altogether

In the past few days I read in the papers that a man was threatened with an £80 fine for wearinga T-Shirt with words that the police said some people may find offensive. It goes without saying that this was obviously meant to be a joke and just goes to show how they'll fine you for anything these days and then stick you on a police database for life.

I am often bemused by articles in the press and even statements from the government referring to the British people as citizens? This is not the case at all as until a formal constitution is written the British are still and always have been subjects to the Crown! Indeed to counter growing public alarm and in an attempt to rebuild voters' trust in politics PM Gordon Brown has stated he fully intends to have a British constitution drawn up. Whilst this may seem like a dream come true for the British, as past experience has shown this government will likely use it for its' own nefarious interests

The Orwellian nightmare is upon us ~ how long before the British people wake up to this

I interviewed a band called Ewigkeit from England. Their album is all about conspiracies and talks about media mind control, Bohemian grove, etc. I asked James if he thought we are living in Orwell's "1984" and he adimently said we are. Of course, he lives in England and they are much worse than the U.S. The interview can be read at http://www.thegauntlet.com/interviews/670/Ewigkeit.html. He mentions Alex Jones and Infowars

To add to the subject at hand, you mentioned a person being arrested for an obscene t-shirt and getting into the database. I know a teen wearing a Cradle of Filth t-shirt was arrested. They invoked an arcane, seldom used law for that. They have the largest DNA database in the world. That's because any crime, misdemenor or otherwise, requires a DNA swab. The police also has the authority to do random pat downs. You could be a normal, average citizen walking down the street, minding your own business, and the coppers could frisk you.

Logged

Doublethink is basically the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.-George Orwell "1984"

Good post, Godfather... keep it coming!Interesting point, being subjects, and not citizens. The words themselves help create the illusion of relative freedom.The alleged upcoming Constitution sounds like another way to sedate the subjects.

Even one of the few remaining parts of this bill 'Habeas Corpus', which acted as protection against unlawful detention has been shamefully eroded by the passing of recent terror legislation which allows for 30 day detention without trial for any person suspected (not convicted) of terrorist crimes against the state.

You know what the brain dead British sheeple are like: "no smoke without fire," etc. is the norm.

Has Britain became a better more moral place because of all the new laws passed or has Britain become safer from global terrorism since the war in Iraq? I think the majority of the British would say NO

Ah, but Toady Bliar will have all these lucrative deals with Murdoch, Carlyle, etc. //insert sarcastic smiley here.

Enslavement by money is just one of the issues across the Britain and the rest of the industrial world. Banks and loan companies readily offer easy credit to people merely struggling to survive in a high taxed society and when interest rates go up as they have done many times over the past 18 months people are forced to declare bankruptcy and have their home and any assets taken from them!

Don't play the bank's game as they are fully aware that credit cards are a scam and a rip-off. If their offers sound too good to be true, then they almost certainly are.

Godfather77

What is most disconcerting is how global surveillance is on the increase not just in the UK which is already obsessed with pioneering the Big Brother template but now America is also upping the level of state sponsored surveillance, with Bermuda, China, Australia, Ireland and even Zimbabwe quickly following behind! In Australia over 50 schools in New South Wales have installed CCTV cameras in classrooms to monitor student and teachers. In some countries cameras have been fitted onto school buses and portable X-ray cameras have even been installed in classrooms to detect student carried objects such as knives and guns. This is all in the name of safety for our children and to deter vandalism and antisocial behaviour!

Not only is the media and our government telling us drugs for children such as Prozac and Ritalin are good but now they are trying to push forward the idea of using tracking devices and microchips to monitor our children! By preying on our fears this can easily be used as a sinister way of indoctrinating our children into accepting living in a drugged up surveillance society as the norm!

Here are some interesting links from infowars, prison planet and other sources covering these topics.

Godfather77

Thanks bro. Brits seem very apathetic these days and its' good that forums such as this exist so that such subjects can be discussed. Hopefully the lies and disinformation spread by the media and our government will be noticed before it is too late

i live in britain and i have to say british people are dispassionate, uninteresting, soulless, boring and drab. i think a nations food really says a lot about its people. for instance in america, food is generally artificial and so are its people. in britain, food is bland and lacking flavor - just like the people.

They (Brit.gov, not the people) continue to blunder about in a fog of stupidity.

It's Good to Be a British Prisoner: Faced with overcrowding, the government announced earlier this year that 25,500 inmates would be early-released, and since that would take away their "free" housing for the remainder of their sentences, awarded each released person "room and board" expenses to live on until their terms expired. [Daily Mail (London), 6-29-07]

Not that releasing 25,000 non-violent prisoners, i.e., pot-smokers, tax "evaders" or such would not be a good idea, but offering them more public largesse is friggin' INSANE.

Logged

Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a hospital makes you a doctor.

Stop thinking in terms of left and right and start thinking in terms of right and wrong

I can say with some authority and, power to us, that the CCTV age is a myth. The vast majority of CCTV cameras in Britain are fake and the ones that aren't are dependent on the people who own them to keep them recording.

There was a gay bashing in Birmingham City Centre, which actually took place on a busy gay street and none of the gay bars could provide CCTV footage as their cameras were all dudds and their for prevention rather than to actually record. This particular street is just off the main city centre where all the casinos are too.

I think they are putting out the idea that we are a CCTV nation when we're not. If we were really as watched as they make out we are, we wouldn't have the crime rate that we do.

When my daughter left her East Dulwich, South London home today, August 22nd she was looking forward to attending her friendly, therapeutic yoga class. Little did she know that the NWO had their own plans for her that were far from friendly or therapeutic! Anita, like many Londoners, uses public transport and regularly purchases the local travel card, the Oyster Card, for use on the London Underground, bus routes, etc.On arrival at Elephant & Castle, Central London and alighting from the bus, she and the other passengers were met by a hoard of Community Police Officers, who proceeded in pairs, to question each passenger about their tickets or travel cards. What ever happened to Ticket Inspectors? Anita was surprised to hear that her Oyster Card had not registered her fare. The officers announced that she had not paid the bus fare, to which Anita replied that no - she was sure she had, because she had swiped the card on entering the bus and felt sure it had registered. This was of no importance though and the officers rudely informed Anita that she would be fined £20.00 for fare evasion. Anita objected and explained that her Oyster Card was valid and there was enough money on it to cover the fare. How could she know if the machine on the bus worked properly? The officers did not care and demanded to know where Anita lives- her full name and address, which she told them. They asked her for ID. They then asked if she shared her flat with anyone, who that person might be and who else lived in the building!!! Anita was annoyed by this intrusion and refused to tell them. She tried to explain that she had an appointment to keep but the Community Officers told her to stay where she was and said they would take as long as they liked, they then beckoned to two uniformed Police Officers nearby. Anita looked around, other people were just quietly giving their details without complaint. Anita asked why they were involving the police and one of the Community Officers told her “don’t get funny with me.” Anita, still pleading her innocence, was then surrounded by the four officers and thetwo policemen told her to “shut up and stop causing trouble” or they would throw her in the back of a paddy wagon and take her to the station for questioning. Passers-by were stopping and staring, and Anita felt very intimidated and afraid. She took a few steps back and the police moved forward towards her, she then tried to walk away and was followed by the uniformed police. Would she be tased? Anita asked if they were shadowing her and they told her to behave and “move along, we’re watching you.” She walked away from them.Her day ruined and in tears, Anita missed the yoga class and returned home in shock to go over the experience again in her head. How could this have happened, what is going on here? Anita is law-abiding, tax-paying citizen, she has no criminal record and has never been in any sort of trouble but now fears that her details will be going on a secret data-base, something she had hoped to somehow avoid. We suspect that the purpose of this exercise is more about gathering information on citizens than collecting money.

ooh aah I want to kill somebody, ooh aah I want to kill someone!

I believe Gordon Brown to be a traitor, a liar and a satanist who sacrificed his first-born in exchange for the position of Prime Minister that he has coveted for decades.

Don't take that shit lying down - get down your local police station and complain, complain, complain - dont let the gestapo get away with anything! If they stop and search you they have to do the following first - Before an officer searches he/she must tell you:

· their name· which police station they work at· what made them suspicious in the first place· the aim of the search· what they expect to find

If not then tell them where to stick it!

Also - Do I have to give officers my name and address?

If you are stopped the officers will ask you some simple questions such as your name, where you live and where you are going.Unless they are reporting you for a suspected crime, you don’t have to give them these details, but it makes sense to co-operate. If you are innocent you have nothing to fear. - Bullshit - give them nothing!If you are being reported for an offence, you do have to provide these details and may be arrested if you refuse to give your details.

Also this is usfull info also - The police can usually only stop and search you in a public place. But if they suspect you have committed a serious crime, they can search you anywhere

Community support officers are NOT policemen and do not have the power of arrest. Next time tell them nothing, show no ID and just walk away - know your rights, the swines rely on most people just accepting this harrasment. I remember once i and a couple of friends had just been dropped off outside a supermakert on the way home from a night out - supermaket was central location for all of us to walk home from there - a policeman stopped and demanded to know what we were doing, where we lived and our ID. I wasnt aware of my rights then and i complied but i was drunk so i remember shouting at him my address and telling him to come and see me in the morning and that id get his badge! Haha - good times, but he left in a hurry!

Yes, a great many Britains seem to have had their soul sucked out of them with this constant intrusion into out lives everywhere you go. It grinds you down. Trouble with a smaller country amonst the usual things. Still we'll go on trying to wake people up... but its slow going here. Apathy rules.

in regards to the britons. thank you for entering into ww2. Thank you for what you sacrificed. No matter whatever is said i respect the spirit of the british people. Not your government or your monarchy but you as a people. you are tigers and lions, maby that has been dampened over the years but you are still what you are. and you are decent, intelligent and honourable people. I know that spirit is still there. And your sence of humour is amazing!Dont bring yourselves down. without you the world would have been a different place from 1940.

in regards to the britons. thank you for entering into ww2. Thank you for what you sacrificed. No matter whatever is said i respect the spirit of the british people. Not your government or your monarchy but you as a people. you are tigers and lions, maby that has been dampened over the years but you are still what you are. and you are decent, intelligent and honourable people. I know that spirit is still there. And your sence of humour is amazing!Dont bring yourselves down. without you the world would have been a different place from 1940.

Dude, I can guarantee you that NOBODY reading the above post on this forum had any hand in the decision taken by the British government to declare war on Germany in '39.Have you seen Endgame? It's on google video. The film explains that, far from being a war between liberty and fascism, it was a war between the Fabian socialists (who wanted to take over the world incrementally so nobody would notice) and those who thought that the West was ready to conquer through force.Now? Our people have no tigers or lions left. Any appearance of decency, intelligence and honour are relics from the days when people were independant, like smouldering topsoil that hangs around for weeks after a forest fire.I do have hope in Britain moving from the bottom-up (rather than top-down changes), arranging ourselves into neighbourhood-states with nonexistant corporatism. But I think that's a long way off. British infowarriors have less pressing matters of state to contend with than our American allies, but at the same time the movement in this country must consign itself to biding time (rather than activism).

Dude, I can guarantee you that NOBODY reading the above post on this forum had any hand in the decision taken by the British government to declare war on Germany in '39.Have you seen Endgame? It's on google video. The film explains that, far from being a war between liberty and fascism, it was a war between the Fabian socialists (who wanted to take over the world incrementally so nobody would notice) and those who thought that the West was ready to conquer through force.Now? Our people have no tigers or lions left. Any appearance of decency, intelligence and honour are relics from the days when people were independant, like smouldering topsoil that hangs around for weeks after a forest fire.I do have hope in Britain moving from the bottom-up (rather than top-down changes), arranging ourselves into neighbourhood-states with nonexistant corporatism. But I think that's a long way off. British infowarriors have less pressing matters of state to contend with than our American allies, but at the same time the movement in this country must consign itself to biding time (rather than activism).

yes, I have seen endgame and for the most part I agree with what you say. I watched the World at War series years back and wondered how Hitler managed as one man to start it. That question was answered. He could not have without backing and now I know who backed him. But someone had to fight in their dirty war and that was the young men and women. Had the british soldiers and their allies not fought with spirit the world would have been a worse place the last 60 years. The Elite could start the war machine but not even they could completely control the outcome. There is a scene from the movie The Edge in which the character Anthony Hopkins plays gets caught in the wilderness and fights for survival. The others with him are on the point of giving up and he asks a question. Why do some people die when caught in a bad situation? the answer to the question was that they die of shame. they cant believe they allowed themselves to land in the situation in the first place even if it was totally beyond their control.So they capitulate and allow circumstances to overwhelm them.We have woken up now and realised we have been manipulated for decades, even centuries. We are in a far worse place than WW2.They have taken the gloves off and we are being attacked by our own.There is no german army (who themselves were manipulated) to fight. Now its our own police, government and their officials that we are up against.Would you rather I called you hamsters and sheep rather than Lions and tigers?. You are what you believe you are. If you think as a lion you shall become one. And I believe that fighting spirit is still there. The smouldering topsoil ready to take flame.I have laid myself open to the more cynical of the forum readers but I think now we are no longer fighting for someone elses agenda but for ourselves. For the first time we actually know a lot of the truth and now do we stand up for ourselves or do we give up and die of shame?

Godfather77

George Orwell warned in his book 1984 that "Big brother is watching you" but now they want to listen to you as well and that’s not all.

Recently it has been reported that police officials across areas of the UK want to hide microphones on city lampposts in an effort to tackle gun crime. These hi-tech listening devices are based on a system similar to one being used across the United States called Shotspotter and rival Sentri systems based on a similar format but also uses CCTV cameras.

The microphones used are apparently so sophisticated they can pinpoint the location of a shot to within 25 feet and can distinguish between a real gunshot from a car backfiring or a firecracker. The bugs are so fine-tuned that they are set up only to listen for gunshots and cannot be used to eavesdrop on conversations. Once detected it immediately triggers an alarm in a police control room.

If police officials give the go-ahead for the system it will be installed only in areas blighted by gun crime. But police will have the option to move them around.

A more sinister application of these devices was shown when Westminster Council released plans to attach such devices to lamp posts outside houses to allow inspectors to monitor sound levels. If neighbours make too much noise, council officials will know and take appropriate action.

Steve Harrison of Westminster Council stated “Using the new system, we can leave a monitor in an area for several days. The idea is that we can pre-empt people having to call us — if the monitor hears a disturbance it lets us know.” Mr Harrison added that the microphones were also going to be placed outside bars and clubs to monitor noise levels and any disturbances. “Eventually this wireless network will cover the whole of Westminster Britain and be used by workers wherever they are,” said Mr Harrison. “Noise monitoring and CCTV are just two of the initial applications, and the great advantage is that we can move these sensors to wherever they are needed.”

Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner said last year that a debate had begun about whether listening devices should be set up alongside Britain's 4.5 million CCTV cameras. Mr Thomas even considered that so-called ''talking CCTV'', which is now being installed in more than 20 areas across the country, might be a ''bridge too far''. This system allows operators to bellow orders at those deemed to be behaving badly.

The fact that these plans are effectively being rolled out across many areas across England with speed, seems to suggest that the Parliamentary debate is over and its’ full steam ahead on the creation of a surveillance society.

Beleaguered Heathrow owner BAA wants to fingerprint passengers at all seven of its British airports, despite warnings that it may be illegal.

The Spanish-owned company was last week forced to delay plans to take fingerprints from passengers flying out of Heathrow's new Terminal 5. The climbdown came 24 hours before the terminal opened after The Mail on Sunday had revealed that BAA risked "criminal action" from Britain's data protection watchdogs if it went ahead.

Deputy Information Commissioner David Smith said passengers told to give prints should do so "under protest".

But BAA wants to resurrect the plan, which saw passengers at Heathrow's Terminal 1 allegedly being told they had to give their prints or be barred from flying. It says fingerprinting is needed so that domestic and international passengers can mix in airport shopping centres, and it warns that an incoming international passenger could switch tickets with an accomplice booked on a domestic flight and then enter the country without being checked by immigration.

BAA says it is due to hold talks with the watchdog to try to press ahead with fingerprinting.

Godfather77

Here is a selection of a BBC news article which outlines the British government's plans to monitor social networking sites to see what the public are saying about them. There is even the suggestion that the Government may employ media monitoring companies, as well as having a cyber army of civil servants dishing out advice on such websites. This is supposedly all part of a plan to "personalise services for the public" but the real reason is crystal clear.

Cabinet Office minister Tom Watson...may also need all of his diplomatic skills to persuade voters that the government has their best interests at heart when it begins monitoring popular social networking sites such as Facebook, Netmums, Fixmystreet and MumsNet.

Ministers are keen to get in on the social networking act - seeing it as a way of by-passing traditional media to communicate directly with the users of public services. The initiative is part of a wider Power of Information Taskforce, aimed at helping government departments make better use of the internet, led by Mr Watson, who was among the first MPs to blog.

They may even employ media monitoring companies to find out what the users of popular sites are saying about them.

They might not always like what they find. A quick search on MumsNet under "Gordon Brown" throws up little in the way of praise for the prime minister. "The only thing I'd like to feed Gordon Brown is a knuckle sandwich," says one member in a discussion on nutrition. Another poster - in a discussion on lookalikes - compares the prime minister to "Javier Bardem, the serial killer in the Coen Brothers' brilliant No Country For Old Men".

The government's plans have also sparked concerns about privacy. Mr Watson sees nothing intrusive about the government using open, commercially run sites to dispense advice and information. "Having 100,000 mums on a social network like NetMums sharing ideas about how you bring up kids or what it's like to give birth can be useful to government because they can talk about the services that they provide. "Government can be useful to them to give them advice on what's good and what isn't good.

"If 100,000 mums met at Wembley stadium there would be welfare rights advisers, clinicians, midwives, even politicians would get in on the act. "But when 100,000 mums meet on an information community online like NetMums, you don't get a politician talking to them."

Some have argued there is a whiff of "Big Brother" about the plans. Mums congregating at Wembley is one thing, but how would those "mums" feel if they were chatting with friends in a coffee shop - an experience that has more in common with being online than visiting a football ground - while a government official hovered nearby taking notes and butting in with helpful suggestions?

For Mr Watson, it is simply a question of following the voters. "We have got to go where our citizens are congregating," he says. If members of a social networking site were discussing which food additives were safe, for example, an NHS official could step in to offer advice. "Someone in the NHS has a job, whose job it is to give advice about what additives kids can have and what they can't have," he argues.

It is all part of Gordon Brown's much-vaunted plan to "personalise" public services, he argues.

I believe that there was a message given to the public today about the coming new world order, shown in the annual horse race the GRAND National - the words Grand and Great tend to indicate a masonic connection e.g. the Great Work, or the Grand Lodge.

Anyway, the winner was number 33, another masonic hint. And the name of the winning horse was, believe it or not, COMPLY OR DIE.

Godfather77

I believe that there was a message given to the public today about the coming new world order, shown in the annual horse race the GRAND National - the words Grand and Great tend to indicate a masonic connection e.g. the Great Work, or the Grand Lodge.

Anyway, the winner was number 33, another masonic hint. And the name of the winning horse was, believe it or not, COMPLY OR DIE.

I remember when I saw the names of the horses running a couple of days ago, thinking just how the ironic it would be if 'Comply or Die' won and its' name was spread across the front page of the UK Sunday tabloids. Such a sublimnal message to the public at large is shocking but in another sense it airs of complete desperation

A couple have spoken of their shock after their local council spied on them to see if they had been cheating the school catchment system.

Tim Joyce and Jenny Paton and their children were put under surveillance by Poole Borough Council for more than two weeks without their knowledge. Miss Paton said this kind of scrutiny was "hugely disproportionate".

The council has defended its actions, carried out under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA). The council admitted using RIPA laws, which were designed to track criminals and terrorists, on six occasions in total.

Miss Paton, from Parkstone, said: "We all know there has to be scrutiny of applications but they could carry it out without resorting to anti-terror legislation and spying.

"The fact they are going to continue this is outrageous.

"I feel that this kind of scrutiny is hugely disproportionate to the circumstances to being able to scrutinise a school application.

"They could have come back to us and asked for utility bills, they could have come back to us and asked for telephone bills instead."

The couple had applied to have their three-year-old daughter accepted into Lilliput CE First School - described by inspectors as "outstanding" and heavily oversubscribed - which one of their children already attends.

The couple has two addresses and they waited until after the council deadline for school applications had passed before moving from one address to the other.

But after two weeks of surveillance the couple were exonerated and their daughter was awarded a place.

Miss Paton admitted they had played the system. She said: "We had some uncomfortable feelings about that, in that we had two addresses and we were able to do it.

"They [the council] produced a very detailed document of our movements.

"They weren't forthcoming with that until asked by a direct question and it took us by huge surprise.

"However, by the end of the meeting it was clear that the surveillance had shown we weren't lying."

Poole council has admitted that it has spied on families three times over suspected fraudulent school place applications. It said two offers of school places were withdrawn as a result.

RIPA legislation allows councils to carry out surveillance if it suspects criminal activity. On its website, the Home Office says: "The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) legislates for using methods of surveillance and information gathering to help the prevention of crime, including terrorism."

Human rights pressure group Liberty called the spying "ridiculously disproportionate" and "intrusive".

James Welch, legal director for Liberty, said: "It's one thing to use covert surveillance in operations investigating terrorism and other serious crimes, but it has come to a pretty pass when this kind of intrusive activity is used to police school catchment areas.

"This is a ridiculously disproportionate use of RIPA and will undermine public trust in necessary and lawful surveillance."

Poole council said surveillance was carried out by a council officer who was fully trained and authorised to exercise RIPA powers, once it had decided it may be a criminal matter.

John Nash, the council's strategic director for children's services, said: "Where the main criteria for entry is to live in the catchment area then we have a duty to make sure, where there is a complaint or concern expressed by somebody else, that the application is fair."

Mick Brookes, of the National Association of Head Teachers, said the council's actions appear "a little over the top".

He added: "I would have thought that if there was a doubt about where parents were living then the school would actually get in touch with them to check their address was right, not least because if there was an emergency."

There's some evidence for this and more coming out all the time. It also relates to TV and media manipulation and the how and why maybe. Initially sceptical, after investigation, there is more to this than I initially thought. It makes sense from a Love thy neighbour as thyself, Love thine enemies etc.Sounds mad, but possibly isn't, and I'm not suggesting its an answer either. But there's something there to find out. Condemnation before Investigation and all that.

More than 1,000 covert surveillance operations are being launched every month to investigate petty offences such as dog fouling, under-age smoking and breaches of planning regulations.

Councils and other public bodies are using legislation designed to combat terrorism in order to spy on people, obtain their telephone records and find out who they are emailing. The full extent to which local authorities take advantage of new powers given to them by the Government came to light after a Dorset council admitted spying for more than two weeks on a family it suspected of lying on a school application form.

Privacy campaigners said figures obtained by The Daily Telegraph showed the extent to which Britain has become a "surveillance state", and likened the tactics employed by councils to the Stasi secret police in the former East Germany.

Last year, councils and government departments made 12,494 applications for "directed surveillance", according to figures released by the Office of the Surveillance Commissioner. This was almost double the number for the previous year.

In contrast, applications from police and other law enforcement agencies fell during the same period, to about 19,000, and one local government body admitted that councils and other public bodies would soon carry out more surveillance than the police.

Councils are increasingly using the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (Ripa) to investigate anything that can be classed as a criminal offence. The Home Office website describes the legislation as a tool for "preventing crime, including terrorism".

But it is used to spy on otherwise law-abiding people committing minor offences such as fly-tipping and failing to pick up dog mess and to gather evidence that can be used to instigate fines.

Keith Vaz, the Labour chairman of the Commons home affairs committee, said: "I am astonished that this very serious legislation is being misused in this way in cases which seem to be petty and vindictive. We have just completed an inquiry into the surveillance society and we have noted that there has been a huge growth in the use of these laws.

"The people responsible have some very serious questions to answer."

Gosport borough council in Hampshire said yesterday that it was currently using Ripa for an undercover investigation into dog fouling. Council officers equipped with digital cameras and binoculars are spying on dog walkers.

Chris Davis, the council's head of internal audit, said: "We have strategically placed members of our enforcement team to blend in with the natural environment and observe people walking dogs. They are using digital cameras to get hard evidence. Dog fouling is a real issue and in this case it is happening close to a leisure facility where children play."

Stoke-on-Trent city council said it used Ripa to investigate "illegal building work", while several councils have put cameras in tins and piles of twigs to catch fly-tippers.

When Ripa was passed in 2000, only nine organisations, such as the police and security services, were allowed to use it, but that number has risen to 792, including 474 councils.

In 2006, more than 1,000 applications per day were being made to use Ripa powers. The Act allows councils to authorise surveillance, obtain phone records and details of email traffic from personal computers (though not their contents) and obtain details of websites individuals are logging on to.

Councils cannot bug telephones, a power reserved for the police and security forces and which must be authorised by the Home Office.

As the Joyce family of Poole, Dorset, found, Ripa allows council staff to spy on people suspected of lying in school applications. Tim Joyce, 37, his girlfriend Jenny Paton, 39, and their three daughters were followed on school runs and watched at their home by Poole borough council to make sure they lived in the catchment area of the school their three-year-old daughter attends.

Miss Paton described the council's actions as "a grotesque invasion of privacy". Mr Joyce said: "It used to be that the Home Secretary had to talk to a judge to get surveillance through the police. Now it seems the world and his wife can carry out surveillance whenever they feel like it."

Gus Hosein, of the campaign group Privacy International, said: "We are on a par with China. The tactics of local authorities are more like the behaviour of the Stasi."

Millions in sensitive jobs, including teachers, carers and health workers, will be among the first to be entered on to the identity register.

In a bid to kick start the project - the world's biggest - foreign nationals working in Britain will begin to be issued with cards from November. Starting next year, the first British citizens will be enrolled beginning with some airport staff, power station employees and people working on the London Olympics site.

Fingerprint kiosks, modelled on existing photograph booths in stations and shops, could be set up around the country to help people enrol. Plans outlined by Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, yesterday envisage a fee of £30 for a stand-alone card, and more than £100 for a combined ID card and passport.

Tories think the National Identity Register could be a target for criminals, hackers and terrorists

But ministers have been told by their own expert that enrolment should be free if the scheme is ''to win hearts and minds''.

A report commissioned by Gordon Brown from Sir James Crosby, a former banking chief, raised the prospect of the taxpayer stumping up the full cost. The Government has insisted all along that the multi-billion pound scheme would be funded through fees and not taxes.

Sir James also came out against including a digital image of the cardholder's fingerprints on the microchip in each ID card. For security reasons, the card and database should only hold some elements of a biometric, he said.

His report was published alongside a new Government timetable for introducing a universal ID scheme by 2017.

From the start of 2010 young people will be able to get an identity card if they chose and will be issued with a unique personal identity number. Later that year the scheme will be opened up to voluntary applicants of any age.

From 2012 - after the next general election - anyone applying for a new passport will automatically be fingerprinted and 49 pieces of personal information logged on the database. This is three years later than planned when the scheme was first proposed after the September 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.

In another change from original plans, Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, said it will be possible to decline the card itself and rely upon a passport as an identity document. Ministers might even revive the idea of linking the database entry to the driving licence.

There had been suggestions that Gordon Brown was cooling on the ID project because of the cost and civil liberties implications. But far from being a retreat, the announcement was designed to show that the Government is still committed to the project.

Miss Smith said the aim was to make coverage of the population ''universal'' by 2017. Officials said by that date, around 80 per cent of adults would be covered.

At that point, or possibly earlier, there will be a vote in parliament to include the rest of the population still not on the register.

Miss Smith said there would be greater involvement of the private sector in delivering the scheme. There would also be a drive to encourage more people to join the scheme voluntarily. As a result, Miss Smith said the Home Office could scale back the projected £5.4bn cost by around £1bn.

The Tories have promised the scrap the scheme if they take power after the next election, likely in 2010. David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "The government may have removed the highly visible element but they have still left the dangerous core of this project.

"The National Identity Register, which will contain dozens of personal details of every adult in this country in one place, will be a severe threat to our security and a real target for criminals, hackers and terrorists.

"This is before you take the government's legendary inability to handle people's data securely into account."

Shami Chakrabarti, director for Liberty said: "Yet another re-launch of the ID scheme looks suspiciously like a new sales pitch for the same bad product. '