Microsoft Windows Vista

Here is something that I wrote tonight that I'd like to share with
the class. This was from my Computer Forensics homework, laugh if you
want, but the point is this will be your reality in twenty-four hours if
your business is "gung-ho" about implementing Vista in a large push.
Rarely do I ever speak negatively about Microsoft, but this time, I feel
as if it truly has crossed a line. I have files on disks that I want
that were created using Microsoft and I can't see them. Vista has pissed
me off.

The question was from a Thompson book and is a part of the CSSIA
courseware. "A new version of Windows has been released. What do you
need to do to be ready in 6 to 10 months when cases involving the new
operating system begin happening? Include research, user groups, and
others you need to contact. Write a one-page paper on this procedure."

And here it is.

Lasher, MCP, MCDST

Computer Forensics

Case Project 3-3

Honorably so, Microsoft will launch Microsoft Windows Vista in
twenty-four hours. A new system that is a mix of bugs, lack of support
on 3rd party products from both the manufacture and Microsoft, and
security exploits that would make the average user cringe in fear. At a
worse case, and to complete the black hole that is Microsoft, simple
data transfers from a CD-R are not supported for some odd reason.
Twenty-four hours, one day. These are our present problems.

If one were to actually attempt to scale these feats of spiting
Microsoft's support as a Beta tester, would be the only feasible way
that someone could actually attempt a 6 to 10 month venture into
studying an almost completely broke product. Case problems would be
existent even on the day of launch if someone were so enthusiastic to
support Microsoft, so it would depend on the company. For my scenario, I
will illustrate a day where a MCDST would actually experience "end-
user", a user who is requesting assistance, problems.

Microsoft may or may not push another pre-mature patch within the
next twenty-four hours. The results would be tragic. For an end-user,
their range of product knowledge can vary and they can be rather
unpredictable. This is even illustrated in class. There are ranges of
students who know more than others and it is a chaos factor. If a group
was not properly assembled from Beta Testing to answer questions on all
levels, then there would be a huge problem with the aforementioned
problems, including Tech Support itself. Research groups who studied the
products would be the Beta Testers themselves. And the user group as
well.

In my professional opinion as a Microsoft Certified Professional, a
Microsoft Beta Tester, and as a Microsoft Certified Desktop Support
Technician, Microsoft may just flop on this one. The "group" would know
that and it would be chaos.

At this point, all they could do is get on their knees and pray.
Pray to God himself that he did spare them the wrath of the "end-user"
not getting their way, or their bosses and Office 2007 not working or
importing correctly simply causing a loss in job. The humor on the
UseNet would probably be quite entertaining.

This new release, which happens to now be less than 24 hours from
launch, is a threat to the public. End-Users, if not equipped with Anti-
Virus protection that is valid for Microsoft Windows Vista and proper
configuration knowledge, would be at risk. Windows Vista adapts to your
needs and wants as far as Administrator rights, but if a company were to
also implement a computer usage policy, which is a feature that is much
more controllable added to this version of Windows, I would see no point
as it to just be a "case of the Mondays".

I would not encourage a company to be gung-ho about Microsoft Windows
Vista just yet because it is not ready. I think that any good Tech
Support Agent and purchasers of Software truly know that. At least I
still have faith in some people.

****

Have fun, scukers.
--
Lasher
MCNGP #50 www.mcngp.com > all
MCNGP: Leading the world to better training, better computer skills,
and taking out the lowdes of the world with fervor beyond anyone's
belief. www.turkreno.com

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I may or may not get it. If I do, I'll give it at least a year so they can
spit out a service pack before i buy it. Never buy software as soon as it
comes out. It's kind of funny isn't it? You can buy cars when they are new
and don't have to worry about the bugs getting fixed after you buy it. haha
I know how programming goes though and it's very challenging so I can
understand. Most end-users don't have a clue though and have surreal
expectations from their software.

"TurkReno" <> wrote in message
news:Xns98C7CEE839EF4Lasher36526@207.46.248.16...
>
> Here is something that I wrote tonight that I'd like to share with
> the class. This was from my Computer Forensics homework, laugh if you
> want, but the point is this will be your reality in twenty-four hours if
> your business is "gung-ho" about implementing Vista in a large push.
> Rarely do I ever speak negatively about Microsoft, but this time, I feel
> as if it truly has crossed a line. I have files on disks that I want
> that were created using Microsoft and I can't see them. Vista has pissed
> me off.
>
> The question was from a Thompson book and is a part of the CSSIA
> courseware. "A new version of Windows has been released. What do you
> need to do to be ready in 6 to 10 months when cases involving the new
> operating system begin happening? Include research, user groups, and
> others you need to contact. Write a one-page paper on this procedure."
>
> And here it is.
>
>
> Lasher, MCP, MCDST
>
> Computer Forensics
>
> Case Project 3-3
>
>
> Honorably so, Microsoft will launch Microsoft Windows Vista in
> twenty-four hours. A new system that is a mix of bugs, lack of support
> on 3rd party products from both the manufacture and Microsoft, and
> security exploits that would make the average user cringe in fear. At a
> worse case, and to complete the black hole that is Microsoft, simple
> data transfers from a CD-R are not supported for some odd reason.
> Twenty-four hours, one day. These are our present problems.
>
> If one were to actually attempt to scale these feats of spiting
> Microsoft's support as a Beta tester, would be the only feasible way
> that someone could actually attempt a 6 to 10 month venture into
> studying an almost completely broke product. Case problems would be
> existent even on the day of launch if someone were so enthusiastic to
> support Microsoft, so it would depend on the company. For my scenario, I
> will illustrate a day where a MCDST would actually experience "end-
> user", a user who is requesting assistance, problems.
>
> Microsoft may or may not push another pre-mature patch within the
> next twenty-four hours. The results would be tragic. For an end-user,
> their range of product knowledge can vary and they can be rather
> unpredictable. This is even illustrated in class. There are ranges of
> students who know more than others and it is a chaos factor. If a group
> was not properly assembled from Beta Testing to answer questions on all
> levels, then there would be a huge problem with the aforementioned
> problems, including Tech Support itself. Research groups who studied the
> products would be the Beta Testers themselves. And the user group as
> well.
>
> In my professional opinion as a Microsoft Certified Professional, a
> Microsoft Beta Tester, and as a Microsoft Certified Desktop Support
> Technician, Microsoft may just flop on this one. The "group" would know
> that and it would be chaos.
>
> At this point, all they could do is get on their knees and pray.
> Pray to God himself that he did spare them the wrath of the "end-user"
> not getting their way, or their bosses and Office 2007 not working or
> importing correctly simply causing a loss in job. The humor on the
> UseNet would probably be quite entertaining.
>
> This new release, which happens to now be less than 24 hours from
> launch, is a threat to the public. End-Users, if not equipped with Anti-
> Virus protection that is valid for Microsoft Windows Vista and proper
> configuration knowledge, would be at risk. Windows Vista adapts to your
> needs and wants as far as Administrator rights, but if a company were to
> also implement a computer usage policy, which is a feature that is much
> more controllable added to this version of Windows, I would see no point
> as it to just be a "case of the Mondays".
>
> I would not encourage a company to be gung-ho about Microsoft Windows
> Vista just yet because it is not ready. I think that any good Tech
> Support Agent and purchasers of Software truly know that. At least I
> still have faith in some people.
>
> ****
>
> Have fun, scukers.
> --
> Lasher
> MCNGP #50
> www.mcngp.com > all
> MCNGP: Leading the world to better training, better computer skills,
> and taking out the lowdes of the world with fervor beyond anyone's
> belief.
> www.turkreno.com

Advertisements

"Keith Chilton" <> wrote in
news:OM#:
> I may or may not get it. If I do, I'll give it at least a year so they
> can spit out a service pack before i buy it. Never buy software as
> soon as it comes out. It's kind of funny isn't it? You can buy cars
> when they are new and don't have to worry about the bugs getting fixed
> after you buy it. haha I know how programming goes though and it's
> very challenging so I can understand. Most end-users don't have a clue
> though and have surreal expectations from their software.
>
>
> "TurkReno" <> wrote in message
> news:Xns98C7CEE839EF4Lasher36526@207.46.248.16...
>>
>> Here is something that I wrote tonight that I'd like to share with
>> the class. This was from my Computer Forensics homework, laugh if you
>> want, but the point is this will be your reality in twenty-four hours
>> if your business is "gung-ho" about implementing Vista in a large
>> push. Rarely do I ever speak negatively about Microsoft, but this
>> time, I feel as if it truly has crossed a line. I have files on disks
>> that I want that were created using Microsoft and I can't see them.
>> Vista has pissed me off.
>>
>> The question was from a Thompson book and is a part of the CSSIA
>> courseware. "A new version of Windows has been released. What do you
>> need to do to be ready in 6 to 10 months when cases involving the new
>> operating system begin happening? Include research, user groups, and
>> others you need to contact. Write a one-page paper on this
>> procedure."
>>
>> Lasher, MCP, MCDST
>>
>> Computer Forensics
>>
>>
>> Honorably so, Microsoft will launch Microsoft Windows Vista in
>> twenty-four hours. A new system that is a mix of bugs, lack of
>> support on 3rd party products from both the manufacture and
>> Microsoft, and security exploits that would make the average user
>> cringe in fear. At a worse case, and to complete the black hole that
>> is Microsoft, simple data transfers from a CD-R are not supported for
>> some odd reason. Twenty-four hours, one day. These are our present
>> problems.
>>
>> If one were to actually attempt to scale these feats of spiting
>> Microsoft's support as a Beta tester, would be the only feasible way
>> that someone could actually attempt a 6 to 10 month venture into
>> studying an almost completely broke product. Case problems would be
>> existent even on the day of launch if someone were so enthusiastic to
>> support Microsoft, so it would depend on the company. For my
>> scenario, I will illustrate a day where a MCDST would actually
>> experience "end- user", a user who is requesting assistance,
>> problems.
>>
>> Microsoft may or may not push another pre-mature patch within the
>> next twenty-four hours. The results would be tragic. For an end-user,
>> their range of product knowledge can vary and they can be rather
>> unpredictable. This is even illustrated in class. There are ranges of
>> students who know more than others and it is a chaos factor. If a
>> group was not properly assembled from Beta Testing to answer
>> questions on all levels, then there would be a huge problem with the
>> aforementioned problems, including Tech Support itself. Research
>> groups who studied the products would be the Beta Testers themselves.
>> And the user group as well.
>>
>> In my professional opinion as a Microsoft Certified Professional, a
>> Microsoft Beta Tester, and as a Microsoft Certified Desktop Support
>> Technician, Microsoft may just flop on this one. The "group" would
>> know that and it would be chaos.
>>
>> At this point, all they could do is get on their knees and pray.
>> Pray to God himself that he did spare them the wrath of the
>> "end-user" not getting their way, or their bosses and Office 2007 not
>> working or importing correctly simply causing a loss in job. The
>> humor on the UseNet would probably be quite entertaining.
>>
>> This new release, which happens to now be less than 24 hours from
>> launch, is a threat to the public. End-Users, if not equipped with
>> Anti- Virus protection that is valid for Microsoft Windows Vista and
>> proper configuration knowledge, would be at risk. Windows Vista
>> adapts to your needs and wants as far as Administrator rights, but if
>> a company were to also implement a computer usage policy, which is a
>> feature that is much more controllable added to this version of
>> Windows, I would see no point as it to just be a "case of the
>> Mondays".
>>
>> I would not encourage a company to be gung-ho about Microsoft Windows
>> Vista just yet because it is not ready. I think that any good Tech
>> Support Agent and purchasers of Software truly know that. At least I
>> still have faith in some people.
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Have fun, scukers.
>> --
>> Lasher
>> MCNGP #50
>> www.mcngp.com > all
>> MCNGP: Leading the world to better training, better computer skills,
>> and taking out the lowdes of the world with fervor beyond anyone's
>> belief.
>> www.turkreno.com

I would have at least expected one very close Microsoft product, such as
XP, to be able to interpret data between each other.

Interesting Lasher... I am not sure what you are doing wrong, but I know
that I have never had a problem accessing any data from XP... or 2000, 9x,
or DOS or Mac for that matter. I would love to help you troubleshoot this
issue... usually it is an NTFS issue, though files on CD do not use NTFS.

I have been using Vista for the past sixteen months so I suppose I have a
bit of an advantage, but really, you are attacking a foe that is not there.

Someone brought up the car analogy so here's this: If you buy a 2006 Toyota
do you expect to be able to use parts from your 1999 Nissan?

Your case refers to Vista as 'a mix of bugs, lack of support on 3rd party
products from both the manufacture and Microsoft, and security exploits that
would make the average user cringe in fear.' I will address these points
one at a time:

While I am sure there are some issues, I am interested to hear what huge
array of bugs are being refered to. Vista has been available to corporate
clients since November 8th and in these nearly three months there are not
even a small percentage of reported bugs that previous OS releases have
experienced.

Yes there are going to be some applications that will not run on Vista. You
want to blame someone? Blame the coders who developed those apps. Well
coded apps work, poorly coded apps will not. With one exception I have not
run across a single program that does not work on Vista, and frankly it was
an x86 versus x64 issue rather than a Vista issue. And yes, some vendors
will not support Vista the day it is released, but they will catch on
quickly. As for lack of support from Microsoft? Hardly.

Security exploits... I have had conversations with two of the top Microsoft
Security guys in North America in the past week and while they both agree
that you still need to deploy anti-virus solutions, Vista is more secure
than any previous version of Windows by far, and as secure as any OS on the
market.

If you want to wait until Service Pack 1 before you deploy then that is your
perogative. If you are an IT Professional you will be doing yourself and
your clients a great disservice by doing so. On the flipside of that you
will be doing your competition a favour because they will gain the business
that you are not qualified to support.

"TurkReno" <> wrote in message
news:Xns98C7CEE839EF4Lasher36526@207.46.248.16...
>
> Here is something that I wrote tonight that I'd like to share with
> the class. This was from my Computer Forensics homework, laugh if you
> want, but the point is this will be your reality in twenty-four hours if
> your business is "gung-ho" about implementing Vista in a large push.
> Rarely do I ever speak negatively about Microsoft, but this time, I feel
> as if it truly has crossed a line. I have files on disks that I want
> that were created using Microsoft and I can't see them. Vista has pissed
> me off.
>
> The question was from a Thompson book and is a part of the CSSIA
> courseware. "A new version of Windows has been released. What do you
> need to do to be ready in 6 to 10 months when cases involving the new
> operating system begin happening? Include research, user groups, and
> others you need to contact. Write a one-page paper on this procedure."
>
> And here it is.
>
>
> Lasher, MCP, MCDST
>
> Computer Forensics
>
> Case Project 3-3
>
>
> Honorably so, Microsoft will launch Microsoft Windows Vista in
> twenty-four hours. A new system that is a mix of bugs, lack of support
> on 3rd party products from both the manufacture and Microsoft, and
> security exploits that would make the average user cringe in fear. At a
> worse case, and to complete the black hole that is Microsoft, simple
> data transfers from a CD-R are not supported for some odd reason.
> Twenty-four hours, one day. These are our present problems.
>
> If one were to actually attempt to scale these feats of spiting
> Microsoft's support as a Beta tester, would be the only feasible way
> that someone could actually attempt a 6 to 10 month venture into
> studying an almost completely broke product. Case problems would be
> existent even on the day of launch if someone were so enthusiastic to
> support Microsoft, so it would depend on the company. For my scenario, I
> will illustrate a day where a MCDST would actually experience "end-
> user", a user who is requesting assistance, problems.
>
> Microsoft may or may not push another pre-mature patch within the
> next twenty-four hours. The results would be tragic. For an end-user,
> their range of product knowledge can vary and they can be rather
> unpredictable. This is even illustrated in class. There are ranges of
> students who know more than others and it is a chaos factor. If a group
> was not properly assembled from Beta Testing to answer questions on all
> levels, then there would be a huge problem with the aforementioned
> problems, including Tech Support itself. Research groups who studied the
> products would be the Beta Testers themselves. And the user group as
> well.
>
> In my professional opinion as a Microsoft Certified Professional, a
> Microsoft Beta Tester, and as a Microsoft Certified Desktop Support
> Technician, Microsoft may just flop on this one. The "group" would know
> that and it would be chaos.
>
> At this point, all they could do is get on their knees and pray.
> Pray to God himself that he did spare them the wrath of the "end-user"
> not getting their way, or their bosses and Office 2007 not working or
> importing correctly simply causing a loss in job. The humor on the
> UseNet would probably be quite entertaining.
>
> This new release, which happens to now be less than 24 hours from
> launch, is a threat to the public. End-Users, if not equipped with Anti-
> Virus protection that is valid for Microsoft Windows Vista and proper
> configuration knowledge, would be at risk. Windows Vista adapts to your
> needs and wants as far as Administrator rights, but if a company were to
> also implement a computer usage policy, which is a feature that is much
> more controllable added to this version of Windows, I would see no point
> as it to just be a "case of the Mondays".
>
> I would not encourage a company to be gung-ho about Microsoft Windows
> Vista just yet because it is not ready. I think that any good Tech
> Support Agent and purchasers of Software truly know that. At least I
> still have faith in some people.
>
> ****
>
> Have fun, scukers.
> --
> Lasher
> MCNGP #50
> www.mcngp.com > all
> MCNGP: Leading the world to better training, better computer skills,
> and taking out the lowdes of the world with fervor beyond anyone's
> belief.
> www.turkreno.com

I was waiting on research, data collected, or some type of reference as
to where he came to this conclusion before commenting. And well to be
absolutely honest, I frankly did not care to respond. I even had a
comment in draft that echoed yours.

"Montreal MCT" <> wrote in message
news::
> Interesting Lasher... I am not sure what you are doing wrong, but I know
> that I have never had a problem accessing any data from XP... or 2000, 9x,
> or DOS or Mac for that matter. I would love to help you troubleshoot this
> issue... usually it is an NTFS issue, though files on CD do not use NTFS.
>
> I have been using Vista for the past sixteen months so I suppose I have a
> bit of an advantage, but really, you are attacking a foe that is not there.
>
> Someone brought up the car analogy so here's this: If you buy a 2006 Toyota
> do you expect to be able to use parts from your 1999 Nissan?
>
> Your case refers to Vista as 'a mix of bugs, lack of support on 3rd party
> products from both the manufacture and Microsoft, and security exploits that
> would make the average user cringe in fear.' I will address these points
> one at a time:
>
> While I am sure there are some issues, I am interested to hear what huge
> array of bugs are being refered to. Vista has been available to corporate
> clients since November 8th and in these nearly three months there are not
> even a small percentage of reported bugs that previous OS releases have
> experienced.
>
> Yes there are going to be some applications that will not run on Vista. You
> want to blame someone? Blame the coders who developed those apps. Well
> coded apps work, poorly coded apps will not. With one exception I have not
> run across a single program that does not work on Vista, and frankly it was
> an x86 versus x64 issue rather than a Vista issue. And yes, some vendors
> will not support Vista the day it is released, but they will catch on
> quickly. As for lack of support from Microsoft? Hardly.
>
> Security exploits... I have had conversations with two of the top Microsoft
> Security guys in North America in the past week and while they both agree
> that you still need to deploy anti-virus solutions, Vista is more secure
> than any previous version of Windows by far, and as secure as any OS on the
> market.
>
> If you want to wait until Service Pack 1 before you deploy then that is your
> perogative. If you are an IT Professional you will be doing yourself and
> your clients a great disservice by doing so. On the flipside of that you
> will be doing your competition a favour because they will gain the business
> that you are not qualified to support.
>
> M
>
> --
> Montreal MCT
> MCT, MCSA, MCDST, MCTS, MCP
> President Emeritus, Montreal IT Professionals Community (www.mitpro.ca)
> Microsoft MVP: Windows Server - Customer Experience
> Microsoft Small Business Specialist
> Visit my blog at:
> http://dnn.mitpro.ca/mitpro/Blogs/tabid/59/BlogID/2/Default.aspx
>
>
> "TurkReno" <> wrote in message
> news:Xns98C7CEE839EF4Lasher36526@207.46.248.16...
> >
> > Here is something that I wrote tonight that I'd like to share with
> > the class. This was from my Computer Forensics homework, laugh if you
> > want, but the point is this will be your reality in twenty-four hours if
> > your business is "gung-ho" about implementing Vista in a large push.
> > Rarely do I ever speak negatively about Microsoft, but this time, I feel
> > as if it truly has crossed a line. I have files on disks that I want
> > that were created using Microsoft and I can't see them. Vista has pissed
> > me off.
> >
> > The question was from a Thompson book and is a part of the CSSIA
> > courseware. "A new version of Windows has been released. What do you
> > need to do to be ready in 6 to 10 months when cases involving the new
> > operating system begin happening? Include research, user groups, and
> > others you need to contact. Write a one-page paper on this procedure."
> >
> > And here it is.
> >
> >
> > Lasher, MCP, MCDST
> >
> > Computer Forensics
> >
> > Case Project 3-3
> >
> >
> > Honorably so, Microsoft will launch Microsoft Windows Vista in
> > twenty-four hours. A new system that is a mix of bugs, lack of support
> > on 3rd party products from both the manufacture and Microsoft, and
> > security exploits that would make the average user cringe in fear. At a
> > worse case, and to complete the black hole that is Microsoft, simple
> > data transfers from a CD-R are not supported for some odd reason.
> > Twenty-four hours, one day. These are our present problems.
> >
> > If one were to actually attempt to scale these feats of spiting
> > Microsoft's support as a Beta tester, would be the only feasible way
> > that someone could actually attempt a 6 to 10 month venture into
> > studying an almost completely broke product. Case problems would be
> > existent even on the day of launch if someone were so enthusiastic to
> > support Microsoft, so it would depend on the company. For my scenario, I
> > will illustrate a day where a MCDST would actually experience "end-
> > user", a user who is requesting assistance, problems.
> >
> > Microsoft may or may not push another pre-mature patch within the
> > next twenty-four hours. The results would be tragic. For an end-user,
> > their range of product knowledge can vary and they can be rather
> > unpredictable. This is even illustrated in class. There are ranges of
> > students who know more than others and it is a chaos factor. If a group
> > was not properly assembled from Beta Testing to answer questions on all
> > levels, then there would be a huge problem with the aforementioned
> > problems, including Tech Support itself. Research groups who studied the
> > products would be the Beta Testers themselves. And the user group as
> > well.
> >
> > In my professional opinion as a Microsoft Certified Professional, a
> > Microsoft Beta Tester, and as a Microsoft Certified Desktop Support
> > Technician, Microsoft may just flop on this one. The "group" would know
> > that and it would be chaos.
> >
> > At this point, all they could do is get on their knees and pray.
> > Pray to God himself that he did spare them the wrath of the "end-user"
> > not getting their way, or their bosses and Office 2007 not working or
> > importing correctly simply causing a loss in job. The humor on the
> > UseNet would probably be quite entertaining.
> >
> > This new release, which happens to now be less than 24 hours from
> > launch, is a threat to the public. End-Users, if not equipped with Anti-
> > Virus protection that is valid for Microsoft Windows Vista and proper
> > configuration knowledge, would be at risk. Windows Vista adapts to your
> > needs and wants as far as Administrator rights, but if a company were to
> > also implement a computer usage policy, which is a feature that is much
> > more controllable added to this version of Windows, I would see no point
> > as it to just be a "case of the Mondays".
> >
> > I would not encourage a company to be gung-ho about Microsoft Windows
> > Vista just yet because it is not ready. I think that any good Tech
> > Support Agent and purchasers of Software truly know that. At least I
> > still have faith in some people.
> >
> > ****
> >
> > Have fun, scukers.
> > --
> > Lasher
> > MCNGP #50
> > www.mcngp.com > all
> > MCNGP: Leading the world to better training, better computer skills,
> > and taking out the lowdes of the world with fervor beyond anyone's
> > belief.
> > www.turkreno.com

"Montreal MCT" <> wrote in
news::
> Interesting Lasher... I am not sure what you are doing wrong, but I
> know that I have never had a problem accessing any data from XP... or
> 2000, 9x, or DOS or Mac for that matter. I would love to help you
> troubleshoot this issue... usually it is an NTFS issue, though files
> on CD do not use NTFS.
> <snip>
> M
>

I can put any of these CD's\DVD's in a Windows XP SP2 Machine and they will
identify, read the files, and execute the files. I am running the Windows
Vista Business Edition. When you put them in this OS, they identify either
just the file structure, such as you can see the directories, but they are
all blank, or you can see a single file that is a RAR or JPG file and it is
corrupted. The CD itself, when it is in the disk-drive, shows that there
is space allocated and space used, however Windows is acting like I just
put a disk created in Linux in it and not showing me the files that I have
backed up. Also, as a note, everything was ran and created in NTFS mode.
I promise you that I'm not the only one experiencing this issue. Several
other associates of mine are also having the exact same problem. One
suggested that it was the UMD of the OS.

--
Lasher
MCNGP #50www.mcngp.com > all
MCNGP: Leading the world to better training, better computer skills,
and taking out the lowdes of the world with fervor beyond anyone's belief.www.turkreno.com

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