Realize how the repubs in the usa are going so bat – poo that they had to not only kiss the derrierer of the cath bishops, long ago sell their soul to the racist evangelical / southern baptists and now want to capture the mormon vote of the people who were the biggest supporters of prop Hate

Good link: I love the interpretations bit, especially “(New English Translation, 2005): You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.”. If we’re absolutely BIOLOGICALLY ACCURATE it’s completely impossible for a man to have sex with a man as a woman because of the lack of the Female Front Bottom (that’s the proper Medical term, right? ;) )!!

Did they have them in the BCE days? It’s a shame these “Holy” commandments haven’t been updated since people started thinking “Hang on, how come God only speaks to some illiterate Shepherd in the Middle East WITH NO WITNESSES when he gives these Holy Commandments??”. I’m sure that God is just busy, I mean he can’t be everywhere at the same time…. Oh, wait, YES HE CAN! It SAYS SO in the BIBLE!!

oh yea… they had them in BCE days… Check Ovid’s “Metamorphoses”, Book XII, 210-535.

It’s the Pirithous and Hippodamia wedding scene where the mythical Battle of the Centaurs breaks out and the trans-sexual Lapith, Caenus, is crushed by the centaurs with rocks and tree trunks… but Caenus had a divine parent so he resurrected as a bird with sandy colored feathers on his head…

The original marble art work is found in the British Museum in the Greek Sculptures section… no mention there about refrigerators though… no mention of Oklahoma either.. mmmm

For you even to post that link implies that you take it all seriously?! Surely, you must know that this is the rambling of some ancient priest with a vested interest in making the Israelite tribe bigger and stronger than any other? The catholics have done the same thing over the years … introduced ‘sins’ which outlawed anything that didn’t result in more little catholics. I think we need to get a grip on reality and stop giving such credence to an old novel. It’s caused more misery and death than anything else on the planet.

Definitely an idiot that is beyond help. There is a verse in the bible he might have overlooked: “And there be eunuchs that have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of God’s sake”.
1 in 200 people is born with some level of intersex condition, from the hormonal and biochemical to the metabolic, chromosomal, gonadal, or other types. Most won’t know unless they find out much later by accident.
Jesus mentions a person who is a water carrier who is a man, a job normally done by women.
Whoever wrote the bible did not know about snails, ants, parthenogenetic lizards, and clownfish where the mother can become the father to replace a lost female and vice versa. They’d never found bonobos, the pansexual primate most closely related to humans. Other human societies can be polyandrous (multiple husbands), so it’s not set in stone what anything/anyone is and should be.

Sits back and smiles and watches the Christian fundies make complete t1ts of themselves, destroying the last shreds of rational argument about their religion and it’s place in the modern world… no seriously, do go on. How about tackling rape and slavery next? :gets popcorn:

“Is there anything else we can Pick and Choose from in the Bible?” “Well, we’ve managed to get around the ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’ for a good few years just by saying ‘It’s ok if they worship in a slightly different way to you’, we got around the Shellfish and Pork thing because of the Fridge, we just ignore the “Cloth made from two different threads” thing because Polyester wasn’t around back then…..”

Not really the best argument, since the Bible is full of killing. It’s also translated “murder”, which makes more sense in context.

The fridge thing is just ridiculous, though. Social anthropologists, theologians and the like have spent generations trying to work out the rationale behind Jewish dietary laws, as there is no one theory that fits all of them. And he thinks it’s about fridges.

The interesting thing about these idiots is that they ignore passages in the NT that state very clearly “If you follow the Israelite laws (meaning the book of Leviticus) Christ has become useless to you. (Gal.5:3,4) There are MANY more, yet the fundamentalists completely ignore them.

The word “abomination” in our language is not a good translation of the meaning of the two words used in the Bible. Generally dietary prohibitions use the Hebrew word “Shekets” for eating foods which are forbidden, and “To’evah” is used when something might offend religious people or is considered prohibited. There’s another word “piggul” which is also translated in to our English word “abomination”. But our word adomination has force and power far beyond the simple meanings of prohibited practice or ritually unclean of the original Hebrew use. One tribe eating with another was considered “To’evah”

Yes, the word “Piggul” is used in a couple of verses. Whereas, “SHE-qets” and “to-eh-VAH” refer to things that are unacceptable in any state. “Piggul”, judging from internal evidence, is used of things spoilt or gone off.

The point about the word “abomination” is that it changed meaning, almost as soon as it came into our language in the 14 Century and has acquired greater and greater pejorative connotations ever since. The fact about homophobes is that they don’t want an accurate translation of the Bible but mistranslations that suit their own agenda. That’s why they won’t replace the word. The proliferation of references to sodomites in many modern English translations is through wilfull and hateful mistranslation. The evidence that we are exploring here can be used to discredit religious homophobes – as if we could discredit them any more than they do themselves.

“And with a male, thou shalt not lie down in a woman’s bed; it is an abomination.”

But who is lying down in the bed – it doesn’t say which gender, it could be adultery, it could be two men — but why would two gay men be lying down in a “women’s” bed? Gay men have their own beds. If it was a married man lying with another man then the sin would be bisexuality and adultery, or just the adultery. Who can say for sure.

Is the verse actually talking about Shrine Temple Prostitutes and the practices of child sacrifice and worship of Molech?

That seems entirely possible, although Christians should perhaps not be referring to the Hebrew Bible as it was written for the Hebrews, their religion is really the New Testament (a lot of which is fake).

I would dispute the assertion that the two anti-gay verses in Leviticus can be accurately translated at all.

Firstly, the command-form of the verb in both verses is masculine singular. It has been interpreted throughout the ages as addressing a man. As the masculine is the default gender in Hebrew, it could be taken as a commandment addressing women, too. So, it condemns male homosexuality and female heterosexuality. Et voila, the Bible wants women to be lesbians. Seriously, though the point is that it’s gobbledygook.

The verses say that you mustn’t lie with a “za-CHAR”, which isn’t exactly a man but a male of any species. This casts serious doubt on any modern translation making sense out of the original.

For me the important words are “mish-ke-VEH Ish-SHAH”. Ancestral wisdom says that the mean “as you lie with a woman.” These words make no literal meaning and this leads to the conclusion that the text is very probably corrupted. The point is again that it’s gibberish.

Neither of the two anti-gay verses in Leviticus use the words for male or female temple prostitutes.

The Queen James Translation: http://queenjamesbible.com/gay-bible/ tries to make the th offense male temple prostitution by inserting the words “in the Temple of Molech.” This plays straight into the hands of fundamentalists, as the Hebrew text doesn’t justify such a mistranslation.

The verses both say, “You shall not lie” with a masculine singular verb. However, it could refer to women as the masculine was the default gender in Biblical Hebrew. But is that were the case these two verses would condemn male homosexuality and female heterosexuality. Obviously, gobbledygook.

The strongest argument in our favour is that the words translated as “as with womankind” in the KJV have no literal meaning, which strongly suggests that the text is corrupt and therefore not fit to put into practice.

Lev 18:22 & 20:13 are not exactly gender non-specific. The command in both verses is a masculine singular verb. However, the default gender in Biblical Hebrew was the masculine. So, women could be included.

However, both verses say that you can’t lie with a “za-CHAR”, i.e. a male (of any species). Neither verse uses a word meaning “man”. So, the subject could be of either gender but the object was definitely male.

Taken literally, these two verses, therefore, condemn male homosexuality and female heterosexuality. Therefore, all women should be lesbians. Reductio ad absurdum.

I think the best idea, and the kindest too, is to cryogenically freeze Porno Pete and when we find a medical cure for whatever it is that’s wrong with him, we can fix him. Might also be better for public health if his balls are removed so he can’t reproduce – I hate to think what horrendous Ridly-Scott “alient” might result if he was allowed to mate ! :D

Some of them think cars go to heaven and will follow you into the afterlife.
You will be texting in heaven? Playing Xbox?

I’m related to one who believes if you pray God will send you a new television! Oh according to this person the earth is 2,000-4,000 years old.

The religious right need to aproach every female and ask her whether she is menstruating, as, if she is, they should not touch her. UNCLEAN! So are erections and ejaculation, even of old men and little boys. Don’t fry things in egg and milk batter if you are cooking meat, you must not mix them. Don’t cut your beard; eat fish on Fridays; cut off the hand of a woman who helps her husband in a fight by grabbing the opponent’s balls. If you have no wife, rape and impregnate your daughters. If your brother dies, rape his wife.
If your female slave needs replacing she is cheaper than a male slave. If you are a deity whose grudge is against one leader, commit genocide against his people including all their kids and babies.

The importance of what the religious right thinks is very important when winnning support for LGBTI rights, including marriage equality. They are a very large part of the anti-gay lobby and will get involved in the debate in the UK, as they have in New Zealand. Rational arguments that disprove their claims, many of which are based on the Bible, help to persuade people to abandon superstition and, hopefully, to view homophobia as what it really is – superstitious irrationality.

I was unaware that God qualified the commandment not to eat pork or shellfish, but in my Bible, God just gives the commandment without mentioning anything about refrigeration. the explanations of why God issued the commands are not biblical but rationalizations, as is this man’s attempt to claim he honors the Bible while ignoring it except when it comes to discriminating against homosexuals.

It’s Your opinion that it’s all nonsense.
It also happens to be MY opinion too. But, to people who take these things seriously it’s important to point out what the correct translation is, how you can have different interpretations, how the word “homosexuality” was never written once in the Bible because they didn’t have that word in Hebrew, who were those passages intended for, can you really take a pick and mix approach to passages, who actually wrote various parts – the Gospels were not written by the disciples, 3+ letters written by Paul are fakes. They need to see that you can’t be sure what the original texts say because we don’t have the originals, only a series of copies, which show changes over time. People need to be educated about the authorship of the Bible and whether it is different than the originals. What was the culture of the time and how does knowing that change how the passages are interpreted. We’ve got to stop accepting it as some sort of fact-based text.

I agree with you again GulliverUK. It’s all nonsense but the point is proving that it’s nonsense. People are being persecuted and killed on the basis of this nonsense. So, it’s very important to show it up for what it is.

Peter Robinson, minutiae of Biblical translation may not be everyone’s cup of tea but we all have different skills and interests to contribute to the struggle for equality for all, including LGBT equality.

It’s not about ‘correct’ so much as demonstrating quite easily that the so called ‘biblical’ edict against gay people is in fact an artificial construct, a deliberate twisting of meaning in the first place.

It’s one thing to argue about ‘what God wants’ its quite another to base that on something which is demonstrably false to start with…

–I am not being sarcastic in these statements and questions. Honestly, Mr LaBarbera and Pastor Taylor are trying to defend what God says by doing exactly what they tell others not to do which is ‘picking and choosing’.

–THE EQUIVALENT to the invention of refrigeration is the invention of acceptance — oh wait, there’s always been acceptance! — just look it up in the dictionary for the meaning.

–Vague: “SOME THINGS are cultural and there are also SOME THINGS that have happened now in terms of refrigeration and health concerns and THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE THERE.” — Really? You’re educated, right?

–God says pork is unclean, because it’s UNCLEAN.

–HETEROSEXUALITY is a behaviour which leads to disease.

–Why don’t you teach people to love one another instead of hating one another? instead of pointing out flaws in everyone else? instead of trying to explain the bible by picking and choosing?

You are supposed to be our leaders & teachers, not dividers & conquerors.

The bible poops on it;s own pages. After the 10 commandments bit about “Thou shalt not kill” [-funny how ancient Hebrew sounds like old English-], just read on through the books of Joshua and Judges, and do a tally of those killed by the Israelites. And if they couldn’t do it, god itself would step in to do the deed.

As for “lying with a man as with a woman’ , if my bf and I both keep our plaid shirts and work boots on while we have sex, neither is of us doing the “woman” thing, so I guess we’re ok???

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly how the religious cherry pick from their supposedly “holy” scripture so that the can live their life as they want and use their religious literature as justification.

jesus didn’t want his followers to adhere to levitican law, or does the pastor NOT cut his hair?! what wing-nuttery is this? tell me people don’t actually follow thes shallow, incomprehensible buffoons?!

jesus didn’t want his followers to adhere to levitican law, or does the pastor NOT cut his hair?! what wing-nuttery is this? tell me people don’t actually follow these shallow, incomprehensible buffoons?!

Yeah, unfortunately, it seems as if church goers are brain-washed into believing whatever they are told, without question. Just look at how old they believe the world is and how we came to be here. When scientists have a 2 million yr old skeleton of a homonid, ans dinosaurs 50 million yrs old, we can’t only be 10,000 years old like so many christians believe. Or is science a tool of satan, just to try to corrupt them?

The church carry on about gays and how bad we are, but their bible in Numbers 31, v17, 18, 25-40 tells of God saying to kill, rape and molest women and children. This is the Holy book and the God they follow? How ridiculous.

Sadly just another homophobic pastor who has not done his research into the context of the clobber passages. Has he thought for a second why on earth Lot offered all the *supposedly* gay men of Sodom for example, virgin daughters? Doesn’t make sense right? (because it’s actually a story of attempted gang rape, not a condemnation of gays). Also it is our job to love unconditionally, and God’s job to judge, so I think that pastor needs to stop pointing the finger, as three of them are pointing right back.

Interesting. So refrigerators validate sin now…? Apparently, some Christians don’t need Jesus anymore, as long as they have Frigidaire to save them. Forgive me if my response is “choke on your shrimp”….

They don’t even know the Bible. Leviticus describes undesirable foods as “SHE-qets” and other undesirable things as “to-eh-VAH”. In the latter category were male homosexuality, wedding anniversaries and birthday parties(“keepers of times”), “Abomination” is too strong a word in modern English to translate either of these two Hebrew words. Between them, the two Hebrew words and the word “abomination” are used to describe some very innocuous objects and actions. Also, note that the Bible never even mentions lesbianism, let alone condemning it.

His sneaking in ‘and vice-versa’ to cover women was most amusing….And I would have thought that the Hebrews had a simple expression referring to ‘sexual intercourse’ (if not ‘anal intercourse’) such that they could have made an unambiguous statement forbidding gay sex if they’d been so minded. They seem to have had no difficulties in being quite clear in the 10 Commandments…..

It’s a pity they don’t live by their Ten Commandments. I love throwing “Thou shalt not bear false witness” at them. All of the mistranslations made in order to multiply the number of verses in the Bible that condemn homosexuality are quite simply “false witness.”

The phrase “lying with a man as with a woman” could mean pretty much anything. I.e. if you’re gay, don’t lie with your boyfriend as you would with a woman (i.e. on the other side of the bed trying to ignore her) but go for it. It’s a command for gays to have lots of sex.

Church Cults take note….The next “gay agenda” so to speak. Destroy religion…. Surely you didn’t think the Gay community would just fade away quietly once we had won our fight. Well I for one am here to tell you No. We will firstly fight for the disestablishment of all religion. Then the next battle will be to recind the tax free status of ALL religions and to make sure they pay all their taxes as the rest of the population and organisations do, including the Queen and her minions. The n the battle to have the Cult of Rome banned from having any thing to do with children and to ban anyone of a clerical bent (pun intended) barred from coming within 50 meters of a child under 16. Religion must also withdraw from public into those buildings they have intended for the purposes of indoctrination and brainwashing of the public. All outwardly signs of religion must be concealed and no religious clothing worn in public including those designed to humiliate and demean women.

the catholic church still hates gays, Jews, and anyone else who dares to tell the truth about them. It uses (prison) rape all over the world humiliate and drive many youth to suicide while it babbles about protecting life.

Renegade priests blame the kiddies for their rapes, and the church now supports the death penalty in Uganda for being / having gay sex.

The Catholics built their HQ on the site of the temple of the Phrygian fertility goddess Cybele. She was a deity imported to Rome. The priestesses of the goddess wore a long dress and a MITRED HAT. They were also women who had removed their penises or had done eachother’s. After the operation they could live basically as women. Some wore the Phrygian Cap instead, a symbol of the French Revolution later.

When androcentric, patriarchal religion took over, the power of women was quickly squashed. In Arabia there were several goddesses, including Allat, the female equal of the original Allah. Jewish belief in the Kabbalah traditions, includes the story of Lilith who was Adam’s rebellious first wife, and who became a goddess. Early Christian priests could be women. The goddesses in Hinduism are all the female deity’s aspects, in turn half of the one god.

..what is this babbling twit on about? He obviously needs reminding that heterosexuals are bloody well sinful. Probably more so, but giving this mad person the benefit of the doubt–shouldn’t he ban straights also from his parish?!?!?!

… and divorce … and adultery …. and wearing clothes made of two different materials .. and burning witches ….? Why have they all fallen by the ‘sin’ wayside but homosexiality hasn’t? This obsession with the subject is all VERY odd … it’s almost obsessive. And those with obsessions need treatment ….

The Leviticus prohibition against sex between men is quite oddly phrased in the original, which tends not to be reflected in translations. The most literal translation would be, “You shall not lie on a man as with a woman.” “Lie on” usually means rape rather than consensual sex, which is described by “lie with”. So it could be a prohibition against raping men. It could also be about not misusing male slaves (can’t remember the reference for that bit), or perhaps saying that sex with a man counts as adultery just as much as sex with a woman does.

Lesbians, incidentally, are left free to do whatever they like, since all of the laws in Leviticus are addressed to men only.

Hehe, hilarious the absurds the bigots come with. Now I want to see the excuse for wearing clothing of differents kinds of fabric and a virgin woman who is raped having to marry her rapist and never divorce him they can come with.

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