At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

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At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder." I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder."

I dunno--disorders, particularly in regards to psychiatry, are a pretty loose definition.

Though how about its existence as a syndrome?

I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder."

I dunno--disorders, particularly in regards to psychiatry, are a pretty loose definition.

Ya, that's my point.

Though how about its existence as a syndrome?

The word "syndrome" literally means "a group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms" but its usage implies (within the context of mental health) negative connotative weight that I'm just not comfortable with. I know the semantic issue here is probably overly pedantic, but I have real conceptual issues with calling Aspergers either a disorder or a syndrome.

I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder."

I dunno--disorders, particularly in regards to psychiatry, are a pretty loose definition.

Ya, that's my point.

Though how about its existence as a syndrome?

The word "syndrome" literally means "a group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms" but its usage implies (within the context of mental health) negative connotative weight that I'm just not comfortable with. I know the semantic issue here is probably overly pedantic, but I have real conceptual issues with calling Aspergers either a disorder or a syndrome.

Why?

I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder."

I dunno--disorders, particularly in regards to psychiatry, are a pretty loose definition.

Ya, that's my point.

Though how about its existence as a syndrome?

The word "syndrome" literally means "a group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms" but its usage implies (within the context of mental health) negative connotative weight that I'm just not comfortable with. I know the semantic issue here is probably overly pedantic, but I have real conceptual issues with calling Aspergers either a disorder or a syndrome.

Why?

Because to call something a disorder or a syndrome is to imply a deviation from a norm, the nature of which is really hard to isolate. Likewise, culturally, when we say that X person has Y disorder, the very fact that we're calling some group of phenomena a disorder implies (I think an unmerited) judgement/stigma.

I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder."

I dunno--disorders, particularly in regards to psychiatry, are a pretty loose definition.

Ya, that's my point.

Though how about its existence as a syndrome?

The word "syndrome" literally means "a group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms" but its usage implies (within the context of mental health) negative connotative weight that I'm just not comfortable with. I know the semantic issue here is probably overly pedantic, but I have real conceptual issues with calling Aspergers either a disorder or a syndrome.

Why?

Because to call something a disorder or a syndrome is to imply a deviation from a norm, the nature of which is really hard to isolate. Likewise, culturally, when we say that X person has Y disorder, the very fact that we're calling some group of phenomena a disorder implies (I think an unmerited) judgement/stigma.

I can get behind that.

Yet, there are negative effects for having the collection of traits that make up asperger's--you are a deviation from the norm. Having dealt with autistic kids on various parts of the spectrum, I find it easy to "get them". But a lot of people DON'T, and it would be nice if those kids had the resources to help them adapt.

I guess you're coming at it from the same perspective as those who don't want gender dysphoria classified as a disorder. From my perspective, that one is a disorder--one that we can, with modern medicine, come close to "curing", in the sense that we can get their bodies to be what at least close to what their minds are.

But it's tough, as I can see how it can just as easily be used by bigots to advocate we "cure" the person's brain.

In the case of asperger's, its disorder status seems proportional to how the person has adapted--if they've found ways to adapt, then they don't really have a "disorder" any more, although the fact that they had to adapt is because of the "syndrome".

If all that makes sense and doesn't sound terrible...

I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why you found what I said ironic...

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why you found what I said ironic...

Irony: "incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs"

I would expect someone who is gay to be more open-minded and accepting.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Asperger syndrome falls pretty squarely as a disorder. We aren't normal, and that's just fine.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Asperger syndrome falls pretty squarely as a disorder. We aren't normal, and that's just fine.

Perhaps. But neither are homosexuals "normal", in the statistical sense--10%-ish of the population, yeah? Yet homosexuality is not considered a disorder any longer. I believe YYW is saying he questions whether asperger's should be considered a disorder, either. I mean, he's also fully capable of speaking for himself, but I think that you're faulting something he's not saying.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Asperger syndrome falls pretty squarely as a disorder. We aren't normal, and that's just fine.

Perhaps. But neither are homosexuals "normal", in the statistical sense--10%-ish of the population, yeah? Yet homosexuality is not considered a disorder any longer. I believe YYW is saying he questions whether asperger's should be considered a disorder, either. I mean, he's also fully capable of speaking for himself, but I think that you're faulting something he's not saying.

So, mine is a nuanced position and clearly not one that TNO5 grasps. That's fine, I was just wondering why he thought it was ironic.

I'm a pretty open minded guy, or at least I like to think of myself in that way but hey... I have my authoritarian impulses.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Asperger syndrome falls pretty squarely as a disorder. We aren't normal, and that's just fine.

Perhaps. But neither are homosexuals "normal", in the statistical sense--10%-ish of the population, yeah? Yet homosexuality is not considered a disorder any longer. I believe YYW is saying he questions whether asperger's should be considered a disorder, either. I mean, he's also fully capable of speaking for himself, but I think that you're faulting something he's not saying.

So, mine is a nuanced position and clearly not one that TNO5 grasps. That's fine, I was just wondering why he thought it was ironic.

I'm a pretty open minded guy, or at least I like to think of myself in that way but hey... I have my authoritarian impulses.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Asperger syndrome falls pretty squarely as a disorder. We aren't normal, and that's just fine.

Perhaps. But neither are homosexuals "normal", in the statistical sense--10%-ish of the population, yeah? Yet homosexuality is not considered a disorder any longer. I believe YYW is saying he questions whether asperger's should be considered a disorder, either. I mean, he's also fully capable of speaking for himself, but I think that you're faulting something he's not saying.

But we still distinguish homosexuality exists, right? I can understand the argument but if we remove that option, I fear it would harm treatment. I'm just fine, but many kids with AS aren't that well off.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

I find it ironic the gay guy is questioning the existence of Asperger syndrome.

So, I'm guessing you missed the conversation I've had with Bladerunner in this thread. But nonetheless, why do you find it ironic?

How would you feel if someone said people aren 't actually gay, they just choose to be?

I don't think YYW is disagreeing that the thing which we call asperger's exists--he's questioning whether it should be classified as a DISORDER. Which isn't ironic at all in reference to his sexuality, considering homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder.

Asperger syndrome falls pretty squarely as a disorder. We aren't normal, and that's just fine.

Perhaps. But neither are homosexuals "normal", in the statistical sense--10%-ish of the population, yeah? Yet homosexuality is not considered a disorder any longer. I believe YYW is saying he questions whether asperger's should be considered a disorder, either. I mean, he's also fully capable of speaking for himself, but I think that you're faulting something he's not saying.

But we still distinguish homosexuality exists, right? I can understand the argument but if we remove that option, I fear it would harm treatment. I'm just fine, but many kids with AS aren't that well off.

I agree--which is part of why I disagree with YYW. But I see where he's coming from. He explicitly did NOT negate the existence of asperger's as, for want of a better term, "a thing", just its classification as disorder.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder." I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior.

Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder." I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior.

At 3/27/2014 9:15:08 PM, savannahbhang wrote:There is major controversy about this topic. I have read on both sides, and i would just like to hear everyone's belief, and personal stories that back up your belief if you have one.

Of course Autism is real. Aspergers, though, is up for debate.

For Asperger's, I don't think that the disorder exists is really up for debate. Whether it's over-used and/or is properly classed as part of the autism spectrum might be...

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder."

I dunno--disorders, particularly in regards to psychiatry, are a pretty loose definition.

Ya, that's my point.

Though how about its existence as a syndrome?

The word "syndrome" literally means "a group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms" but its usage implies (within the context of mental health) negative connotative weight that I'm just not comfortable with. I know the semantic issue here is probably overly pedantic, but I have real conceptual issues with calling Aspergers either a disorder or a syndrome.

I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior. But, if Aspergers is a disorder, then the question of its classification does become salient.

I get what you're saying to an extent. I think we try to sometimes view mental health issues too much like we do medical problems in biology. General 'disorders' such as OCD, depression, and anxiety I think can be viewed more as a symptom of people falling into poor habits. Sure, some may be more genetically predisposed to fall into such habits as OCD, but at the end of the day there's not something wrong with that person's biology presay, like with a cancer patient, there 'maladaptive' behavior is rooted in habits.

I'm not so sure I would agree with you on Asperger's particularly though. By the way you should check out this cool TED talk by someone with Asperger's, above

Whether Aspergers is a disorder or not isn't set in stone. My issue, here, is with describing Aspergers as a "disorder." I'm, of course, not taking issue with Aspergers existence as an observable pattern of behavior.

OK, I can get that. Doesn't change that it is wrong, but understood.

Actually, it's not wrong. It's also not right. It's an opinion that's shared by a lot of mental health professionals, and was a subject of considerable debate before the release of the DSM-5. My view is not, after all, necessarily inconsistent with the DSM-5 insofar as the DSM-5 no longer classifies Aspergers as a disorder independent of the autism spectrum, meaning that the extent to which the symptoms manifest has to be considerably greater than was the case to merit a diagnosis under the DSM-IV.