I just started the "Decision in the South Pacific" scenario as the allies and noted a strange thing on the completion of the first turn.

Five air units that had not been on the aircraft reinforcement list magically appeared at Noumea (three Hudson squadrons and two Wirraway squadrons). To top it off, they are all Australia Command units!

What's up with this? Is this some kind of a bug or something?

I tried starting the scenario a second and third time. In both of these cases, the same, unscheduled units arrived.

Has anyone else seen this? Or do I have some kind of problem with my game?

Could someone just take 3 or 4 minutes, open stock scenario 4 as the allies and run the first turn? Check to see if these unscheduled Hudson and Wirraway squadrons appear in Noumea at the end of turn 1. If they do, that tells me my program isn't messed up. It would just be a bug or something. If they don't show up, it tells me my game is screwed up and I have to do a reinstall or something.

It's not like I'm asking folks to donate a kidney or something - just 3 or 4 minutes of someone's time - that's all.

Could someone just take 3 or 4 minutes, open stock scenario 4 as the allies and run the first turn? Check to see if these unscheduled Hudson and Wirraway squadrons appear in Noumea at the end of turn 1. If they do, that tells me my program isn't messed up. It would just be a bug or something. If they don't show up, it tells me my game is screwed up and I have to do a reinstall or something.

It's not like I'm asking folks to donate a kidney or something - just 3 or 4 minutes of someone's time - that's all.

Let me give it a try.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

I just ran the scenario , and on the second turn as allies I recieved at Noumea three Hudson squadrons and two wirraway squadrons , all RAAF of Austraila command. None where listed on the re-inforcement schedual. I hope this helps.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

Does anyone know whether or not this has been reported as a bug or not?

Or is it one of those odd "design features" of this scenario?

Like:

1) The lack of allied transport capacity. I know the allies had very little to spare with regard to transports around this time of the war, but if the Japanese can manage to sink just 4 or 5 of the allied AP's it's basically game over as the allies won't be able to move troops around.

2) The lack of japanese ground replacements. The allies get an absolute ton of ground replacements (even Chinese rifle squads and Russian tanks - apparently the Americans and Australians owed a great deal to the Chinese and Russians for all of their help in the South Pacific!), but the Japanese can't even replace a single rifle squad!

3) The absolutely bizarre OOB's of some ground units (particularly some of the allied base forces).

Has anyone else noticed the surreal nature of this scenario, or is it just me?

Does anyone know whether or not this has been reported as a bug or not?

Or is it one of those odd "design features" of this scenario?

Like:

1) The lack of allied transport capacity. I know the allies had very little to spare with regard to transports around this time of the war, but if the Japanese can manage to sink just 4 or 5 of the allied AP's it's basically game over as the allies won't be able to move troops around.

2) The lack of japanese ground replacements. The allies get an absolute ton of ground replacements (even Chinese rifle squads and Russian tanks - apparently the Americans and Australians owed a great deal to the Chinese and Russians for all of their help in the South Pacific!), but the Japanese can't even replace a single rifle squad!

3) The absolutely bizarre OOB's of some ground units (particularly some of the allied base forces).

Has anyone else noticed the surreal nature of this scenario, or is it just me?

You are welcome. I'm afraid that I had not noticed these things , but I'll keep an eye for it. I feel sheepish as I'm currently on a PBEM on the same scenario (turn 7) and never noticed the aircraft discrepency. I'll report back if I see anything.

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

Does anyone know whether or not this has been reported as a bug or not?

Or is it one of those odd "design features" of this scenario?

Like:

1) The lack of allied transport capacity. I know the allies had very little to spare with regard to transports around this time of the war, but if the Japanese can manage to sink just 4 or 5 of the allied AP's it's basically game over as the allies won't be able to move troops around.

2) The lack of japanese ground replacements. The allies get an absolute ton of ground replacements (even Chinese rifle squads and Russian tanks - apparently the Americans and Australians owed a great deal to the Chinese and Russians for all of their help in the South Pacific!), but the Japanese can't even replace a single rifle squad!

3) The absolutely bizarre OOB's of some ground units (particularly some of the allied base forces).

Has anyone else noticed the surreal nature of this scenario, or is it just me?

You are welcome. I'm afraid that I had not noticed these things , but I'll keep an eye for it. I feel sheepish as I'm currently on a PBEM on the same scenario (turn 7) and never noticed the aircraft discrepency. I'll report back if I see anything.

Check out #2 in particular. Look at the allied replacement schedule and you'll see the allies have a huge list that even includes elements they can't use. Yet the Japanese player would sell his left arm for a few rare elements like, let's say, RIFLE SQUADS!

The lack of allied transports is a real killer, so if you're playing as the allies, keep those guys out of harm's way. If you lose just a few of them, the game is basically over as you won't be able to move anything around.

I've noticed this before and assumed that when you select variable reinforcements that those pushed to before the start date of the scenario show up at the end of Turn 1 but never show up on the reinforcement schedule.

Posts: 5317
Joined: 1/26/2005 From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xenocide

I've noticed this before and assumed that when you select variable reinforcements that those pushed to before the start date of the scenario show up at the end of Turn 1 but never show up on the reinforcement schedule.

Good thought, I had a look at the database editor and its basically the full game cropped down to the Solomons map.

Re 2) I would assume that even though these are listed as available the Allies cant actually use them, Now if you got a Guards Tank Corps it would be useful.

I think the scenarios are "cropped" versions of a full game in many areas, so deleting a field which doesnt effec the game would be a waste. and the way WITP goes could effect something else.

Re 1) Do those units appear on teh database at all, maybe with an earlier arrival date (What are the Sqn Nos?)

Re Re 2) I understand that the allies can't use all of their replacements, but the Japanese get basically NOTHING for replacements. Open the stock scenario 4 of WiTP and check the ground replacement schedules for the two sides. The allies get insane amounts of replacements, while the japs just get support and engineers. They don't even get any replacement rifle squads. I understand that the allies obviously had a far better logistical situation than the japanese, but this replacement schedule is absolutely ridiculous. It's like comparing a Bentley to a Yugo. A Volkswagen to a Hyundai I could live with, but this is nuts.

Re Re 1) The squadron numbers are 2, 13 and 14 RAAF for the Hudsons and 12 and 25 RAAF for the Wirraways. They show up in other scenarios, so I suppose they are in the database. Aside from their appearance at all (given that they don't even show up on the reinforcement schedule), their LOCATION of appearance is all whacked as well. These are Australia Command units, so shouldn't they show up in Brisbane or some place on the Australian mainland?

I've noticed this before and assumed that when you select variable reinforcements that those pushed to before the start date of the scenario show up at the end of Turn 1 but never show up on the reinforcement schedule.

Good idea, but I tested it with "fixed reinforcements" and got the same result. The same 5 unscheduled reinforcement squadrons show up in Noumea.

Go ahead and try it to see what I mean. Open the stock scenario 4 as the allies with reinforcements fixed, check the aircraft reinforcement schedule before starting the first turn (you'll see these squadrons don't exist in the schedule), run the first turn and you'll see that the "phantom squadrons" magically appear in Noumea (far from their Australian homeland to boot!).

I looked at scen4, it not called "Decision in the South Pacific" so I looked at UV for that scen.

Back to WITP

I assume they are 2,13,14 Hudson & 12, 25 Wirraway Sqns.

They are at Noumea on game turn 1 when I start with variable on & off.

Its a hypothetical scenario, I suppose anything can happen.

Yeah, I noticed I got the name a bit messed up too. But now that you know its "stock scenario 4", we're on the same wavelength.

Yes, you've got the squadron numbers right.

I understand it's a hypothetical scenario, but having squadrons magically appear from out of the blue (and at an inappropriate base as well) just seems wrong. Add that to the non-existent allied transport fleet and the completely lopsided replacement schedules and this scenario becomes all-but-unplayable. It's too bad, because this is the only medium-length scenario that is relatively balanced. It has great PBEM potential for someone anxiously awaiting the mythical AE beast. It's just too bad that it is so botched.

I just started up with "fixed reinforcements" and checked for them. They are not there (either on the map or on the reinforcement schedule). I ran the first turn and got the operations report saying the 2, 13, 14, 12 and 25 RAAF squadrons arrived at Noumea. I'll try again.

The sqd have not been set a location in the database, but are available. Like in a game where your reinforcements are supposed to go to base when it has been captured, they go to the primary base instead. I've checked it in Tracker and the DB editor ... want screen shots ?

Why the big fuss ? They are not phantoms, just units that have not been assigned correctly / allowed to default to this location. You will not see them in the reinforcements as they are already "on map" although at no location the first turn ...

Just ran it again. Stock scenario 4 as the allies. Fixed reinforcements. The squadrons in question (2, 13, 14, 12 and 25 RAAF) were not present at the start. Other Hudson and Wirraway squadrons were present (4, 5, 23, 24 and 6 RAAF). At the end of turn 1, the 2, 13, 14, 12 and 25 RAAF arrived at Noumea. The 34 RAAF also arrived there, but I think that is a scheduled reinforcement. The operations report is pasted below.

The sqd have not been set a location in the database, but are available. Like in a game where your reinforcements are supposed to go to base when it has been captured, they go to the primary base instead. I've checked it in Tracker and the DB editor ... want screen shots ?

Why the big fuss ? They are not phantoms, just units that have not been assigned correctly / allowed to default to this location. You will not see them in the reinforcements as they are already "on map" although at no location the first turn ...

"just units that have not been assigned correctly"

Thank-you for clarifying. This solves my dilemma. So the scenario is screwed up (just not fatally).

I don't know diddly squat about the technical workings of the game, but this "assignment" issue sounds like a nice concise explanation for a player who doesn't understand programing jargon.

So, basically the person who set up the scenario made a minor mistake that has not warranted fixing in any of the patches to this point. I can live with that.

"The big fuss" had to do with my concern for some issue with the game as it is installed on my computer. I just noticed the game behaving oddly - units not listed as reinforcements seemingly showing up as reinforcements. When that happens, it makes me question the accuracy of the reinforcement list and/or the presence of some problem/virus with my computer.

What are "Tracker and the DB editor"?

Can you clarify what this means - "they are already "on map" although at no location". What is the difference between being "on map" and "at a location"? How can something be on the map, but not at a location? Sounds kind of "Alice in Wonderland" to me. But remember, I am completely ignorant of all of the inner workings of the game. I play the game, but have no understanding of how the machine works.

"Can you clarify what this means - "they are already "on map" although at no location". What is the difference between being "on map" and "at a location"?"

By this he means that they are in the "at start" database (i.e., they are supposed to be on the map) but were mistakenly not given an "at start" location. In this case it slightly screws the allied player as they are supposed to be either in Australia or New Guinea - and those Throwaways (sorry, Whirraways) can not fly back to Australia on their own; they will need to be shipped over on one of the transports.

OK ... sorry I'll go through it more slowly for you. It is a hot day and I'm a little testy.

Firstly, I very much doubt you have a problem with your game, just make sure you have patched it correctly. Anyway, this scenario problem has nothing to do with patches and you should be at --> 1.806

The scenario's were written a while ago and while the big campaign has been updated, the smaller scenario's to my knowledge have not been tinkered with. Still I'm sure someone will come along and maybe correct me on that point.

The scenario is not screwed, just some of the fine points have probably been glossed over. You might think this strange in a game that is very detailed.

You say that you question the accuracy of the reinforcement list ... well in this case they were not reinforcement, just not assigned to any base and therefore while theoretically being "on map"(available)they were just not assigned anywhere until the following turn when the program checked to see that all units that should be where there are. These were not, so they were switched to(given the location) Noumea. Probably the HQ for these units.

Tracker is a program that tracks all the units and helps with a myriad of things. You can read about it by clicking on my signature ...

The DB editor can be found in your WITP folder from the start menu and it lists all the units in the game, but obviously is the place where people can edit the scenarios.

If you still need clarification, or help let me know ... welcome to WITP!

"Can you clarify what this means - "they are already "on map" although at no location". What is the difference between being "on map" and "at a location"?"

By this he means that they are in the "at start" database (i.e., they are supposed to be on the map) but were mistakenly not given an "at start" location. In this case it slightly screws the allied player as they are supposed to be either in Australia or New Guinea - and those Throwaways (sorry, Whirraways) can not fly back to Australia on their own; they will need to be shipped over on one of the transports.

Thanks. That makes sense.

So, the take home message is, some drunk transport captain took a wrong turn and brought his crated cargo of Hudsons and Wirraways to Noumea by mistake.

For the allied player, you've just got to make up for this bum's mistake, save up some PP's and use them to change the HQ of the misplaced squadrons.

Unless you are in desperate need of clearing refuse out of the Noumea airfields, you'll probably just want to leave the Throwaways there. They really aren't any good against the Zeros and you'll need to use the shipping for more important jobs. The Hudsons can fly to Australia on their own.

OK ... sorry I'll go through it more slowly for you. It is a hot day and I'm a little testy.

Firstly, I very much doubt you have a problem with your game, just make sure you have patched it correctly. Anyway, this scenario problem has nothing to do with patches and you should be at --> 1.806

The scenario's were written a while ago and while the big campaign has been updated, the smaller scenario's to my knowledge have not been tinkered with. Still I'm sure someone will come along and maybe correct me on that point.

The scenario is not screwed, just some of the fine points have probably been glossed over. You might think this strange in a game that is very detailed.

You say that you question the accuracy of the reinforcement list ... well in this case they were not reinforcement, just not assigned to any base and therefore while theoretically being "on map"(available)they were just not assigned anywhere until the following turn when the program checked to see that all units that should be where there are. These were not, so they were switched to(given the location) Noumea. Probably the HQ for these units.

Tracker is a program that tracks all the units and helps with a myriad of things. You can read about it by clicking on my signature ...

The DB editor can be found in your WITP folder from the start menu and it lists all the units in the game, but obviously is the place where people can edit the scenarios.

If you still need clarification, or help let me know ... welcome to WITP!

Thanks for the clarifications. And thanks for going slowly. It's a cold day here and my brain's slightly frozen.

I've played WiTP for four years now, just not this scenario as the allies. Usually I play as the japanese, so I never really noticed what was going on with these air units.