I got asked a great question and wanted to make it a topic here to get some feedback.

Is a Brat a real Sub? They assert themselves sexually. They don't always do as they're told. Does it feel like a deeper submission when you make your Dom fight for it?

I've been told by a Dom that he sees Brats as being more trouble than they're worth. When you act like a Brat, is there something you do to redeem yourself? Is there something that Brats bring to the table that makes them worth the struggle? Are there men who specifically look for Brats? Have you ever been rejected or broken up with because you're a Brat?

When I first got into the kink scene, I thought I was a Brat. I liked to tease, act playful, and be silly. I've found out that being a Brat is more and not me. I'm playful but I'll do as I'm told with the drop of a hat. I know I'm not a Brat but I've always been curious about the dynamic and how it plays out.

I have alwys been called a brat, I love to tease and prod, just to see how far i can push my Master until he lets me have my just deserts. The feeling of not knowing exactly how far i can push drives me sexually NUTS.I believe that this is also called a SAM. A Smart-Ass- Masochist...

"When its too kinky for everybody else, its just gettin' good for me."(Kinky Freedman)

Are brats a "real" sub? I guess that depends on who you ask or the write-up you read. So I will leave that answer for each person to determine for themselves.

To me, I view them as controlling people who simply love to be dominated with a fight (nothing wrong with that, if that is what you are into). To me, I see them as liking the IDEA of being a sub, but don't truly want to give up what they consider their power and control. I think the whole process is one of THEM controlling the partner and getting exactly what THEY want, but they try to disguise it (even to themselves) as something else because in the end they are in a "submissive" position (this is also known as one of the ways one can "top from the bottom"). To me, simply being controlled and dominated in the end does not make you a "sub" by default, it makes you dominated and controlled (and there is a difference, IMO). I think they (brats) get a sexual and emotional high out of the struggle and then release (and I see people in "normal" relationships do this all the time as well). And the Doms or partners who enjoy them, imo, get the same from the relationship. I view their final sexual submission as a submission behavior but not the behavior of a "sub"; it is simply the end to the power play which the brat actually controlled. To ME, I believe that a sub WILLINGLY and without a FIGHT, submits to their Dom. There is not a power struggle, nor IMO should there be. So the whole "brat" thing, to me, just does not work well in traditional D/s relationships. I think that is why many Doms (as the one you talked to) view brats as more trouble than they are worth. But I am sure, like many aspects of BDSM, views on this vary and you will find folks who disagree completely.

If you ARE a brat though, it is best to let prospective Dom(s) know this right away (if they have not already figured it out). It can be very frustrating (understatement) to have someone represent/present themselves as one thing, only to find out shortly after that they are NOT what they profess to be. As pointed out, there are Doms that simply do not enjoy the constant struggle or "maintenance" required of a brat. There are, however, people who DO. So again, it comes down to having a good match and being honest with each other. And I will also point out that a lot of couples fall within a range of behaviors or "titles" and are not fixed in one or the other; much like sexuality in general. What degree certain aspects or personality traits are seen is often different and can be fluid, and even change.

I dont think brats are real submissives, they just like getting their way. They say they are submissive for whatever reason, but like the struggle and trying to top from the bottom. Maybe it makes em more switch. I dunno. I just dont think they are a true submissive who wants to obey and be a good submissive.

If you ARE a brat though, it is best to let prospective Dom(s) know this right away (if they have not already figured it out). It can be very frustrating (understatement) to have someone represent/present themselves as one thing, only to find out shortly after that they are NOT what they profess to be. As pointed out, there are Doms that simply do not enjoy the constant struggle or "maintenance" required of a brat. There are, however, people who DO. So again, it comes down to having a good match and being honest with each other. And I will also point out that a lot of couples fall within a range of behaviors or "titles" and are not fixed in one or the other; much like sexuality in general. What degree certain aspects or personality traits are seen is often different and can be fluid, and even change.

I totally agree with this!!! Soooo Many people miss the whole communication bit! They either "miss-label" themselves or don't understand what they want. When I finally figured out who I was and what my identity is and not just for myself but for others. Life got so much easier

I'm a babygirl/little! I love it. When I would meet Doms/Masters/Daddys, it made talking to them easier. All the fluff talk of i want this and expect that was taken to a different level. I dunno if im explaining myself correctly, but its like we started out in the light rather than the dark unknown. When I say I'm a little, certain things are expected. For instance, the playfulness, the stupid kid talk, and my childish mannerisms. Or IF I was a brat. Its great to know not only for myself but for him too. Because then he knows how to do things. What ways to take control and what ways to punish and what ways to have fun.

I got asked a great question and wanted to make it a topic here to get some feedback.

Is a Brat a real Sub? They assert themselves sexually. They don't always do as they're told. Does it feel like a deeper submission when you make your Dom fight for it?

I've been told by a Dom that he sees Brats as being more trouble than they're worth. When you act like a Brat, is there something you do to redeem yourself? Is there something that Brats bring to the table that makes them worth the struggle? Are there men who specifically look for Brats? Have you ever been rejected or broken up with because you're a Brat?

When I first got into the kink scene, I thought I was a Brat. I liked to tease, act playful, and be silly. I've found out that being a Brat is more and not me. I'm playful but I'll do as I'm told with the drop of a hat. I know I'm not a Brat but I've always been curious about the dynamic and how it plays out.

Being a brat and a sub seem to be synonymous. Being a brat lets the dom do her thing.

This is not true. A brat likes to be dominated either physically or mentally, but wants to FIGHT it as well. A brat uses their position to dominate the other one and control their actions... thus, topping from the bottom. Their intent is to create a situation where the other party gets upset or MUST exert control to the point where the brat becomes dominated. That is not true submission. While it is true that every sub will have their moments of resistance or being "bad", this is in a minority of the time. Discipline or being "dominated" is not the goal with true D/s relationships. Roles and what happens is natural with NO fight or struggle. This is not the case with brats at all.... quite the opposite.

When a true Dom encounters a brat, there are problems. This is because it becomes a power play with both parties. There is no harmony. Now while some people who have a dominant personality may LIKE that struggle and power play, that does not mean that the brat IS a sub. No, BOTH are Doms in reality But one likes to fight until dominated (and control the struggle), and the other likes to dominate until the other party surrenders. And I would present that someone finally surrendering does not make them a sub. A sub WILLINGLY gives of themselves.

I would also suggest that if a person believes that simply making another person surrender to dominance is what a Dom is about, they don't really understand BDSM at all. I also see that there are a lot of dominent assohles who think they are Doms, but in reality they are bullies and punks and nothing more. They abuse true subs and misuse the relationship/dynamic to get things only for themselves.

IMO the dynamic of the brat and their "dominant" partner is more akin to S/M than it is to D/s. But with the twist of the seemingly sub part being the one who is truly pulling the strings... thus in reality being the Domme.

niceguy4401 wrote:

I would love to work with a brat. Challenge is good.

But you see, there is NO CHALLENGE. LOL YOU would be the one being "worked", not the other way around. You may enjoy the "struggle" and the "conflict", but trust me, you are not working anyone. It isn't like breaking a wild horse. Once you have broken them it is over. You will NEVER "break" a brat. Their GOAL is to work YOU into dominating them until they must surrender (NOT SUBMIT, there is a mental difference between the two). And then when it is over, they NEED that again, and will play you over and over and over. They are in control, not you.

I dont think brats are real submissives, they just like getting their way. They say they are submissive for whatever reason, but like the struggle and trying to top from the bottom. Maybe it makes em more switch. I dunno. I just dont think they are a true submissive who wants to obey and be a good submissive.

Depends on if they're a brat all the time or just sometimes.

When my girl Becky is being bratty, I know it's because of something that's been building up and she's getting her frustrations out. It's rare through, maybe a few times a year.

I don't put up with much of it, let it go for a little, then give her something to take her mind off of it - beatings don't work, she's asking for that.

So I'll have her do a mindless task so she can actually think about why she's being bratty. One is sitting in the middle of the living room, water, saddle-soap, rags and all the leather toys. She can't move till everything's been cleaned, so two to three hours of sitting bare-assed on a hard-wood floor usually calms her down enough to talk.

Then we talk and find out what the problem is. Most often it's job stress, dealing with unruly people is never fun, especially for a phlebotomist.

When my girl Becky is being bratty, I know it's because of something that's been building up and she's getting her frustrations out. It's rare through, maybe a few times a year.

I don't put up with much of it, let it go for a little, then give her something to take her mind off of it - beatings don't work, she's asking for that.

So I'll have her do a mindless task so she can actually think about why she's being bratty. One is sitting in the middle of the living room, water, saddle-soap, rags and all the leather toys. She can't move till everything's been cleaned, so two to three hours of sitting bare-assed on a hard-wood floor usually calms her down enough to talk.

Then we talk and find out what the problem is. Most often it's job stress, dealing with unruly people is never fun, especially for a phlebotomist.

I believe there is a difference between being bratty and being a brat. One is a temporary thing where a need is expressed in a way that is not acceptable, and the other is a constant and used as a form of control. I have seen both, and there is a huge difference between them. And heaven help the Dom who does not recognize he is getting a BRAT as opposed to a sub who on occasion can be bratty. LOL

I guess I've been lucky, even before I signed with my two, I never played with a true Brat, but I've heard of a few. Sorry, topping from the bottom is not acceptable to me and if I had found one, she'd have been out the door so fast...

I guess I've been lucky, even before I signed with my two, I never played with a true Brat, but I've heard of a few. Sorry, topping from the bottom is not acceptable to me and if I had found one, she'd have been out the door so fast...

There is nothing "wrong" with a brat. But people have to be HONEST with themselves and their partners. Unfortunately many brats don't seem to realize they are NOT SUBS, and this causes huge problems when they partner up with someone who is expecting a classic D/s dynamic in the relationship. Far too often brats are attracted to Doms who are quite manly, and that excites them. Unfortunately what I think they really want is a masculine and "macho" sub that LOOKS the part but can be controlled/dominated. And those who stay with brats often times fool themselves into thinking they are Doms and in control, when in fact, the opposite is true.. being the more physically powerful, and one who seems to "make" the other "submit" over and over is not always a true reflection of who has more control (or power) in the relationship. Heck, if you have to make them do it over and over, how much "control" and "power" do you REALLY think you have? ;)

I see in the world outside BDSM the brat dynamic played out A LOT. Then agom. I have seen many cases of people who are not even familiar with BDSM living the D/s lifestyle (minus the titles and other trappings found in BDSM) more purely than those who profess to BE in the lifestyle and who get caught up in the titles and "play" we all to often see. Funny how that works.

But you see, there is NO CHALLENGE. LOL YOU would be the one being "worked", not the other way around. You may enjoy the "struggle" and the "conflict", but trust me, you are not working anyone. It isn't like breaking a wild horse. Once you have broken them it is over. You will NEVER "break" a brat. Their GOAL is to work YOU into dominating them until they must surrender (NOT SUBMIT, there is a mental difference between the two). And then when it is over, they NEED that again, and will play you over and over and over. They are in control, not you.

Hey, get me in a BDSM thread.I agree that brats are not subs but not that they're in control, rather you have to "earn" the control. It's not D/S nor S/M it's a totally seperate roleplay. It is more Alpha dominance and control and much more aggressive than D/S but the rewards can be fantastic if you like the struggle.It's not a constant fight as many seem to think and, to my mind, more interesting. I could never get into D/S as I'd find it too mild, that will upset some doms, I prefer the Alpha challenge. "Chacun a son gout!" as the French say.

Hey, get me in a BDSM thread.I agree that brats are not subs but not that they're in control, rather you have to "earn" the control. It's not D/S nor S/M it's a totally seperate roleplay. It is more Alpha dominance and control and much more aggressive than D/S but the rewards can be fantastic if you like the struggle.It's not a constant fight as many seem to think and, to my mind, more interesting. I could never get into D/S as I'd find it too mild, that will upset some doms, I prefer the Alpha challenge. "Chacun a son gout!" as the French say.

When you initiate and then force the other to gain the alpha spot.... you are in control. LOL You dictate the situation and set the play. But it is not, as you say, ONLY a D/s thing or BDSM thing, it is seen in standard relationships as well (I pointed that out too).

I see the same alpha games and control issues with many parents and their children. The parents THINK they are in control because in the end of every incident they "win". LOL Oh no, silly you. The CHILD was in control the whole time. They are playing YOU every step of the way. And they will do so again. :)

You say it is not a constant fight, but in the BDSM community IT IS. It is a constant struggle for control, or appearance of it. LOL With a brat, it IS a constant. That is what separates a brat from someone who is simply "bratty" some of the time. Please don't confuse this term with how those OUTSIDE the BDSM community use the term. You have mixed in and out of the community as if they are constants or the same.... they often times are not. And an Alpha Challenge is not the same thing as what brats do. I can see (truly I can) how it might look that way, but the dynamic of the relationship is not about that. It is about control, period.

Again, many times those on the outside see things that are not quite accurate.

Let me try to say it differently... what a brat does in BDSM is not the Alpha Challenge. The brat's control extends past issues of conflict and apparent control. They dictate and lead the relationship and dynamic, in both times of struggle AND in times of conflict. The Alpha Challenge is a game that is played by some, yes, but is not really a part of the D/s dynamic involving brats. It can LOOK that way, but only if you ONLY focus on times of conflict. In the BDSM community, the brat is the one in control... or attempting to be.... in both conflict and peace.

Let me try to say it differently... what a brat does in BDSM is not the Alpha Challenge. The brat's control extends past issues of conflict and apparent control. They dictate and lead the relationship and dynamic, in both times of struggle AND in times of conflict. The Alpha Challenge is a game that is played by some, yes, but is not really a part of the D/s dynamic involving brats. It can LOOK that way, but only if you ONLY focus on times of conflict. In the BDSM community, the brat is the one in control... or attempting to be.... in both conflict and peace.

So these brats get everywhere!Gay brats are fun, I think you get the best sex with them but you have to earn it! High risk and high reward, lol.

Being a brat and a sub seem to be synonymous. Being a brat lets the dom do her thing.

No. Not for me so I have to disagree. [My case, "his" thing & 'he' is 'Daddy'-Dom, so not a typical Master, either. We do not have a typical D/s relationship.] I am an imperfect and mischievious little kitsune.... I get into trouble, often without "trying" sometimes I am just bad or make mistakes or get in a mood.

That kind of behavior, just like in a REAL child acting like that, is very unbecoming to me. Many times if you see a kid in the store having a fit:whining and screaming for something they want or running amuck-the parent gets looked at as a bad parent. I may not blame the parent, but some people DEFINATEY do and this reflects on them, as well. I DO feel like, of course, this behavior cries out for discipline, but it is negative. It makes me wonder "why" they act like that or choose to. I am not someone who seeks and needs attention like that. Attention seeking is ugly to me more than anything good. In a sexual relationship it seems extremely unattractive. Some people may like it. I like pushing, playing, or being bad, but I have never-ever been called a brat, because I am not REALLY acting like one even when I am naughty.

I think you can be spoiled without being unruly or 'high maintenance' (I do not look at that as a good quality) and one can get attention without begging for it by demanding behavior (BUT ~ to each their own).

I believe my Daddy-Dom would be very unhappy and would NOT think it was "fun" at all if I was a brat... (I can see how some people would like that though.) I just do not wish to be one, either.

As for Alpha Challenge Games? (???) or other stuff, all I know is this forum is for BDSM...

Relationships as a whole have Alpha/Beta, they also have S/M to whatever degree... whether someone is aware or not and Uke/Seme...Top/Bottom, etc.

"Games" are different than the BDSM community & actually knowing who you are and your natural personality and understanding that when you come into the BDSM fold. It's not about games... not really. It is more about having come to terms or coming to that understanding within in the MORE indepth BDSM scope of things. Games you can turn on or off and come and go and change, change rules, but BDSM is more of a lifestyle. Mild or hardcore is a personal thing - WITHIN BDSM, not just a personna or mask.

I do not know as all the same rules apply It is not merely casual sex like ordinary sleeping around nor would I think like a gay bar scene or a London Boots club...there is what seems to me more of a "general" responsibility and understanding of that where I think that makes BDSM a bit more complex.

For me a brat is not a submissive they're a brat, and that's it.A sub/little may have a bad day/mood/PMS whatever and that's normal, but to purposefully challenge - nah! That's a brat.

Only ever had one brat to deal with. I finally settled her down by saying:"If you're good I have a surprise for you.""Really?""Yep.""What, what, what?""First you have to out on this blindfold"And she did. Then I took to her house.Out of the car. Gave her a kiss.Opened her front door, put her inside, pull the screen door closed"Now you wait right here and you'll get your surprise.""What, what, what is it?"I went to my car, got in and yelled out, "SURPRISE" and drove away.Never saw her again.

For me a brat is not a submissive they're a brat, and that's it.Only ever had one brat to deal with. I finally settled her down by saying:"If you're good I have a surprise for you."...I went to my car, got in and yelled out, "SURPRISE" and drove away.Never saw her again.

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