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That's exactly it. I don't want her to be perfect, I just wish her personality had at least one positive trait.

It wasn't exactly clear, no. In fact, I thought Kirino was very likeable in the first episode, that coupled with the title "My sister can't be this cute", I was actually fooled into thinking she was going to be one of those nice little sisters I love so much. My loss. Now that I know exactly what to expect, you can be sure I won't complain to much.

I personally think it's the trade off for having the anime pretty much in a 3rd person point of view.

In LN, because the view is told from Kyosuke only, you got more of how and why he acts this way, and gets to see Kirino in a way he was thinking, therefore, the LN Kirino is much more likable, she is still a bi#ch, but a likable bi#ch, fairly similar to Haruhi and Yakushiji Ryoko, minus the god-like power, and perfection respectively of course.

What this episode felt at was that it kept the date part skipped the rest of the volume 3. The date part was suppose to show one of Kirino's good side, and that is despise what she was saying, she works hard for what she have right now and is taking it rather seriously. Unfortunately that part was lost during the adaption.
Instead, it only enhances her bi#chy personality.

And that is the issue I've see so far. The LN has pretty tie plot. Unfortunately due to the series being only 1 cour, a lot of information necessary for new viewers were lost, and couple of scenes with Kyosuke-commentary that should have been remade was left unchanged minus the commentary.

The result being that they showed all the important events in the LN, but failed to connect all those events together and lacks the transition.

Think of it as Kuroneko's Marchera dojin-fic. You got to have to know some background on the series otherwise there are a lot of plot-holes and inconsistency.

Generally speaking, a major protagonist needs to be likable or entertaining. They can certainly be both, of course, but they really should be at least one or the other. Kirino is very much a case of the character (hopefully) being entertaining to make up for her lack of likability. Basically, you either get the humor of the character, or she won't resonate with you because it's really hard to feel sympathetic towards a character with her personality drawbacks (barring some sort of really effective tear-jerking background story, of course).

Thankfully, I found Kirino pretty amusing this episode. The following quote is a big reason why...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist

On the other hand, the way this episode poked fun at some of the, shall we say, excesses that some of the more extremist otaku out there engage in was absolutely hilarious.

When this anime decides to gently poke fun at some otaku excesses, this anime is very amusing, and so is Kirino by extension. Because most of us get those excesses, coming into contact with them regularly as anime fans.

But when this anime decides to laud and justify the otaku subculture, it goes from comedy to drama, and Kirino's lack of likability then becomes an issue. In other words, it gets in the way of us sympathizing more with her (an important element to effective drama is getting the audience to truly care about the main protagonists).

Basically, Kirino is a tsundere that's too tsun and not enough dere, as others have noted. If this anime wants to be more than pure amusing comedy, then it should make Kirino more likable, or at least give a good reason for why she is the way that she is. Because let's face it, there's not much to like about her when she isn't amusing you.

I still don't get why Kirino treats her brother like trash... even her tone of voice and expression always accuse of him like a criminal or something... I know she shows her kindness from time to time which is around 5-10% of their interactions... Oh well, I hope they improve things along the road

Problem is, being the two main characters it's the two of them we'll see together most often...for instance, when Kirino interacts with Kuroneko in the first half she's still insufferable, but it's much more entertaining to watch because Kuroneko fights back. Which I guess is my problem with Kyousuke, he's too much of an enabler...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertaker

In LN, because the view is told from Kyosuke only, you got more of how and why he acts this way, and gets to see Kirino in a way he was thinking, therefore, the LN Kirino is much more likable, she is still a bi#ch, but a likable bi#ch, fairly similar to Haruhi and Yakushiji Ryoko, minus the god-like power, and perfection respectively of course.

What this episode felt at was that it kept the date part skipped the rest of the volume 3. The date part was suppose to show one of Kirino's good side, and that is despise what she was saying, she works hard for what she have right now and is taking it rather seriously. Unfortunately that part was lost during the adaption.
Instead, it only enhances her bi#chy personality.

The result being that they showed all the important events in the LN, but failed to connect all those events together and lacks the transition.

Think of it as Kuroneko's Marchera dojin-fic. You got to have to know some background on the series otherwise there are a lot of plot-holes and inconsistency.

Yeah, I suppose if the cuts the anime adaptation made ended up cutting her good moments and thus exaggerating her bitchiness, then I guess it's more understandable. Like your example, Haruhi is also someone who is rather unlikable to be around, but I'm still find her abundant excitement to find new interesting things entertaining (also, Kyon stop her when she goes too far, and as time goes she mellowed out a bit).

Which, I guess, is the fault of the anime staff then? I mean, I know it's hard to convert all those materials and I'm not expecting for a 1:1 adaptation, but when the characterization becomes skewed then it's a problem. After all, an adaptation must be able to stand up on its own and not riddled with plot-holes and inconsistency to be addressed only in the original source.

Oh, and I agree with what Triple_R said, I guess s/he puts it way better than I do.

I still don't get why Kirino treats her brother like trash... even her tone of voice and expression always accuse of him like a criminal or something... I know she shows her kindness from time to time which is around 5-10% of their interactions... Oh well, I hope they improve things along the road

it'll be awkward otherwise. I guess before the event in ep1, she didn't even give a rat about her brother. Now she treated him like "trash." That's a huge improvement. And as I said, I like where things are heading

I loved the first half. Kirino's arguments with Kuroneko are just so similar to the many attitudes and arguments I've seen in anime forums, including this one.

Unfortunetly i can't help but agree with others when they say Kirino is bitchy. I know the writers are trying to make her a likable bitch (which I've seen before), but I just don't think they're doing a very good job. You have good tsunderes and bad tsunderes (Well really she's not actually a tsundere since Kyousuke isn't actually her love interest, but it's clear they're trying to give her tsundere traits.) and to me she's one of the latter rather than the former. Can't say she's as bad a Haruhi, though (Though she ain't a tsundere either, but I'm sure you know what I mean)

One of the cues that someone is a "likable bitch" is how everyone else reacts to their eccentricities. If someone is doing what Kirino is doing, and the people around them acknowledge that she is being unreasonable or act similarly eccentric or inane, then you realize the situation is supposed to be zany and you accept it. The way the staff is doing it, though, I just feel that Kirino is entirely too serious, and Kyousuke is entirely too accommodating, and few people in the show seem to think Kirino is going too far. So I guess the Kirino-Kyousuke pairing is just too painful to watch, which is why I enjoy when someone other than those two are on screen.

Basically, Kirino is a tsundere that's too tsun and not enough dere, as others have noted. If this anime wants to be more than pure amusing comedy, then it should make Kirino more likable, or at least give a good reason for why she is the way that she is. Because let's face it, there's not much to like about her when she isn't amusing you.

This. She has not been amusing me for some episodes now. If there's not much to like about the characters themselves when the dust settles down in the story, then they are doing a very poor job at character development.

I wonder how people would feel about this kind of story if Kirino was actually a guy and acted like this. I doubt she'd be liked by anyone at all.

I haven't her liked since day one, and to be honest I decided that early on (by just reading the manga).

And I might be thinking out of the box here or plain odd, I'm not watching this show for Kirino, but for her brother instead. The brother's shown far more development and investment for what's happening then anyone else. Seeing how he deals with everything is more entertaining then everything else in the show. Kirino can drop dead, seriously. Weakest excuse of a character I've seen in years.

I haven't her liked since day one, and to be honest I decided that early on (by just reading the manga).

And I might be thinking out of the box here or plain odd, I'm not watching this show for Kirino, but for her brother instead. The brother's shown far more development and investment for what's happening then anyone else. Seeing how he deals with everything is more entertaining then everything else in the show. Kirino can drop dead, seriously. Weakest excuse of a character I've seen in years.

Kyousuke's a damn saint for putting up with his sister that much. I mean, she wants him to jump in front of a car for her research, and then she makes a big scene in the middle of the street by tipping a bucket of water over herself.
There's annoying, and then there's borderline crazy!

Oh come one you guys, there is way too much hating on the shows main heroine (whether you acknowledge it or not ^^; ). Seriously, when you consider just how frozen their relationship has been- they never talked to each other basically before the series start- it's amazing how far they've come. Being a bitch to Kyousuke is all Kirino has known, and now that their relationship has upgraded significantly I think she's simply rather confused as to how to behave now and simply falls back to the whole "bitch" routine" (as you people seem to call it) whenever she's lost or doesn't know what to do next. I mean, they never talked to each other only a while back and now you expect her to be all dere around him? That would be unrealistic. And sure the bucket scene was rather unexpected, but consider this: up to now Kirino has never really had (well so I assume) any interaction on this level with a guy, brother or not. She probably simply doesn't know what kind of behaviour is necessary to get his attention, and it's a fact that no matter how immature Kirino was acting Kyousuke wasn't exactly a shining beacon of hope either (just about to walk out on her etc.) Personally I'm of the opinion that Kirino's just going through a phase and their relationship will get much better as time progresses. So be patient huh D:

Seven episodes is enough to warrant disliking a character. I'm not saying she has to change either, she can stay as the super bitch for the rest of the show, but that doesn't mean I'm actually going to like her, let alone care what happens to her.

It's not her brother's fault that she's like this either, I'm sure he's made attempts in the past the help 'rectify' the situation (that being her not talking to him) but if she wants to keep being a snotty little bitchy otaku that's fine, that's just who she is. I'd rather prefer it that way I suppose.

It's not her brother's fault that she's like this either, I'm sure he's made attempts in the past the help 'rectify' the situation (that being her not talking to him) but if she wants to keep being a snotty little bitchy otaku that's fine, that's just who she is. I'd rather prefer it that way I suppose.

Well, we still don't know what really happened in the past, so we dont know if Kyousuke even attempted to reestablish the relationship with Kirino in the past. If they ever show that part (or atleast a small flashback of it, then it will clarify everything and finalize the character development)

But Kirino has made some development that "can" be likable, she is not being a total... Pain, and alienating Kyousuke from her life by completely ignoring him. But she probably will learn eventually how to deal with situations herself, now that will boost her like meter by alot. Instead of always having Kyousuke take the fall for these sort of things, episode 7 really does show a big improvement in the Kirino and Kyousuke relationship. It might even lead to Incest if it keeps going at this pace...

At the very beginning, when Ayase asked Kirino if she had a boyfriend, she replied coldly "no". 2nd time, she got a little embarrassed. Now she is completely blushing at the thought, or thats my thoughts running wild, and she is probably just clarifying the mistakes in her sentences to make sure Kyousuke doesn't get the wrong idea. But I get the idea its leading to Incest at this pace.

Also this sort of relationship reminds me of Haruhi Suzumiya, where Kyon was leading your average, boring life until Haruhi came into his life. Now its Kyousuke getting dragged in to all these things by Kirino, leading his average, boring life to something even more fun now. Meeting new people (Ayase, Saori, Kuroneko) but having to take the blame for some things. Its still better then having him do nothing the entire show.

It's not her brother's fault that she's like this either, I'm sure he's made attempts in the past the help 'rectify' the situation (that being her not talking to him) but if she wants to keep being a snotty little bitchy otaku that's fine, that's just who she is.

Assumptions assumtions. We don't know what happened in the past, all we know is that it resulted in Kyousuke declaring they hate each other. And it's obvious she WANTS to change, she's trying very hard and it's just that she's rather uncertain as to what to do.

Quote:

It might even lead to Incest if it keeps going at this pace...

Yes pleaseHere's to hoping Only time will tell.

Quote:

Also this sort of relationship reminds me of Haruhi Suzumiya, where Kyon was leading your average, boring life until Haruhi came into his life. Now its Kyousuke getting dragged in to all these things by Kirino, leading his average, boring life to something even more fun now. Meeting new people (Ayase, Saori, Kuroneko) but having to take the blame for some things. Its still better then having him do nothing the entire show.

And when faced with choosing a flat life or a stressful crazy weird life what did he choose? Also note that while a wild number of shippers preferred Yuki (who's similar to Kuroneko in some respects) canonically it seems Haruhi is going to win. Hooray for WMG.

It's less of an assumption and more of a judge of character to her brother, but this is anime so that's a moot point. The irony is that if / when she manages to clear through the 'wall of bitch', if this show does lead to some incest *ugh* I would probably hate it more. Way more. Haha.

And when faced with choosing a flat life or a stressful crazy weird life what did he choose? Also note that while a wild number of shippers preferred Yuki (who's similar to Kuroneko in some respects) canonically it seems Haruhi is going to win. Hooray for WMG.

Kyon is a bad example to bring up, he always wanted a fantastic world of aliens, time travelers, espers, etc. Using Kyon to predict how this series is going to go is a terrible idea. Kyousuke by all accounts never had the slightest interest in otaku related material until Kirino dragged him into it.

I can honestly say I liked the whole episode, Kirino failing to hide how much she is a brocon in the second half was hilarious but Kuroneko is my favorite character so her interactions with Kyousuke in the first half was my favorite part.

Kyon is a bad example to bring up, he always wanted a fantastic world of aliens, time travelers, espers, etc. Using Kyon to predict how this series is going to go is a terrible idea. Kyousuke by all accounts never had the slightest interest in otaku related material until Kirino dragged him into it.

I was merely combining the fact that Kirino and Haruhi dragged Kyousuke, and Kyon into the fun, but unusual things that will destroy their average, boring, normal lives.

Well I must say I found this episode Amusing if not a bit meh towards the end.

Still the second half it seems a little weird to go on a date with your sister that's NOT a simple movie. But they both seemed to enjoy the time together so no biggy, but......Kyousuke's reaction when he saw Kirino in a bathrobe at the love Hotel.....Not a good impression. I mean it's your sister surely you've probably seen the girl in worse positions so a bathrobe shouldn't bother you.

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Well I must say I found this episode Amusing if not a bit meh towards the end.

Still the second half it seems a little weird to go on a date with your sister that's NOT a simple movie. But they both seemed to enjoy the time together so no biggy, but......Kyousuke's reaction when he saw Kirino in a bathrobe at the love Hotel.....Not a good impression. I mean it's your sister surely you've probably seen the girl in worse positions so a bathrobe shouldn't bother you.

This. Seriously though, it's more the implications of the thing. She's just taken a shower and has come out in a bath robe in a motel. Kyousuke's looked at porn, he knows the setting and his imagination's doing the rest. Kirino's reaction doesn't exactly help either. If he pressed his advantage he probably coulda scored <3 oh well another time