OK, I was against Lawrence Timmons before I was FOR Lawrence Timmons.
Now I have this love/hate relationship w Timmons.

TIMMONS athleticism is amazing, but his head isn't.

ie. First play for the Dolphins today, Timmons attacks the weak side lead blocker as Ricky Williams hits the stong side "A" gap for a long gain. Timmons?? What are you doing??? This guy gets lost in crowds and just doesn't have great instincts.

He's done this all year and often takes terrible angles. he's just not consistent in making great decisions.

BURGH86STEEL

01-03-2010, 09:10 PM

OK, I was against Lawrence Timmons before I was FOR Lawrence Timmons.
Now I have this love/hate relationship w Timmons.

TIMMONS athleticism is amazing, but his head isn't.

ie. First play for the Dolphins today, Timmons attacks the weak side lead blocker as Ricky Williams hits the stong side "A" gap for a long gain. Timmons?? What are you doing??? This guy gets lost in crowds and just doesn't have great instincts.

He's done this all year and often takes terrible angles. he's just not consistent in making great decisions.

This was his first season as a full time starter. I am not sure he is best suited to play MLB in the 3-4 defense. Only time will tell.

phillyesq

01-03-2010, 09:11 PM

Timmons is a beast... if he is unblocked. For somebody drafted as highly as he was, he should be performing at or near the pro bowl level, especially in the Steelers linebacker friendly scheme. He is big on potential and athleticism, but not so big with contributions.

Shawn

01-03-2010, 09:11 PM

Timmons strength isn't his run stopping ability that is for sure. But, he is fierce when turned loose to blitz and is terrific in pass coverage.

Mister Pittsburgh

01-03-2010, 09:15 PM

Timmons strength isn't his run stopping ability that is for sure. But, he is fierce when turned loose to blitz and is terrific in pass coverage.

:shock:

I would almost consider moving Timmons to OLB and Harrison inside.

feltdizz

01-03-2010, 09:15 PM

Timmons needs to shed blocks better and stay in his gap.. but in his first full year he did pretty good. He will get better. I like Fox inside and hope he gets more reps.

Captain Lemming

01-03-2010, 09:16 PM

Timmons strength isn't his run stopping ability that is for sure. But, he is fierce when turned loose to blitz and is terrific in pass coverage.

Nickelbacker?

steelblood

01-03-2010, 09:24 PM

Timmons needs to shed blocks better and stay in his gap.. but in his first full year he did pretty good. He will get better. I like Fox inside and hope he gets more reps.

Timmons played a lot last year. This is his third year here. We can't give him a pass any more.

MicroBioSteel

01-03-2010, 09:29 PM

Timmons strength isn't his run stopping ability that is for sure. But, he is fierce when turned loose to blitz and is terrific in pass coverage.

:shock:

I would almost consider moving Timmons to OLB and Harrison inside.

I also would like to see what Harrison would do inside. Harrison's strength WAS pass rushing but the holding "no calls" and the fact that the NFL is not going to enforce their own rules reduces his effectiveness.

Farrior is done as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see Woodly,Fox,Harrison,Timmons. Combined with Hood, Smith/Kiesel, and Hampton's replacement/Hoke we could have a resurgence in the pass rush.

Mister Pittsburgh

01-03-2010, 09:32 PM

Timmons strength isn't his run stopping ability that is for sure. But, he is fierce when turned loose to blitz and is terrific in pass coverage.

:shock:

I would almost consider moving Timmons to OLB and Harrison inside.

I also would like to see what Harrison would do inside. Harrison's strength WAS pass rushing but the holding "no calls" and the fact that the NFL is not going to enforce their own rules reduces his effectiveness.

Farrior is done as far as I'm concerned. I would like to see Woodly,Fox,Harrison,Timmons. Combined with Hood, Smith/Kiesel, and Hampton's replacement/Hoke we could have a resurgence in the pass rush.

I also hope Colbert/Tomlin are very concerned about our secondary. As far as I am concerned after this season Deshea and Carter don't belong on an NFL field. With Gay's play I think about the same of him. Maybe they can see something that fixes his issues....I don't think they can fix father time though.

Shawn

01-03-2010, 09:33 PM

They won't move a pro bowl OLB to the inside. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see that experiment...just don't see it happening.

stlrz d

01-03-2010, 09:42 PM

Timmons needs to shed blocks better and stay in his gap.. but in his first full year he did pretty good. He will get better. I like Fox inside and hope he gets more reps.

Timmons played a lot last year. This is his third year here. We can't give him a pass any more.

I'm not giving him a pass, but last season he was pretty much a 3rd down specialist.

feltdizz

01-03-2010, 09:51 PM

Timmons needs to shed blocks better and stay in his gap.. but in his first full year he did pretty good. He will get better. I like Fox inside and hope he gets more reps.

Timmons played a lot last year. This is his third year here. We can't give him a pass any more.

Timmons is a beast.. he has lapses in the run game but he is the least of our worries on defense. There was a time when I wanted Fox in for him on run support but overall the man is playing as
expected for draft position.

Chadman

01-03-2010, 10:56 PM

Opinions on players will vary greatly depending on what you are looking for.

Last season (and several before that) many complained about Larry Foote & his lack of athletisism.

So he's replaced with Timmons who isn't as good a run defender as Foote- so we get complaints about that now, but his athletic skills are off the charts.

Timmons is fine. Athletically, he's a mismatch for most on the field. His coverage skills are far better than Foote & Farrior & Fox, his blitzing skills outmatch most of his team mates & he has that 'splash play' quality that is often missing.

But the downside is that he isn't 'great' against the run- so far as reading angles goes.

But that can be taught.

And he's what? 23?

So those of you that want a stout run defender will be upset, but those of you that look for a playmaker are probably happy.

It's a very similar situation to that of Ike Taylor- good cover CB, but terrible hands are a massive liability.

papillon

01-03-2010, 11:00 PM

Timmons needs to shed blocks better and stay in his gap.. but in his first full year he did pretty good. He will get better. I like Fox inside and hope he gets more reps.

Timmons played a lot last year. This is his third year here. We can't give him a pass any more.

He wasn't the problem with the defense. No need to consider giving him a pass, he moved or was moved inside and was not a liability. The run defense except for last week was good enough to win games. The pass defense was not.

He is certainly going to have to get better at the point of attack if he's going to stay inside. I'll take him, he played pretty well. We'll see more from him next year.

Pappy

Shoe

01-03-2010, 11:00 PM

Timmons seems much more bulit like a mini-DE than anything else... certainly not an ILB. For someone with his speed/burst, he is rather straight-linish in his movements. IMO, he would do very well in more limited role as an OLB.

ILB's have a 4-way go, in terms of which way they go: left, right, forward, back. OLB (more so) are just coming off the edge, and most of their movements are going up the field.

Opinions on players will vary greatly depending on what you are looking for.

Last season (and several before that) many complained about Larry Foote & his lack of athletisism.

So he's replaced with Timmons who isn't as good a run defender as Foote- so we get complaints about that now, but his athletic skills are off the charts.

Timmons is fine. Athletically, he's a mismatch for most on the field. His coverage skills are far better than Foote & Farrior & Fox, his blitzing skills outmatch most of his team mates & he has that 'splash play' quality that is often missing.

But the downside is that he isn't 'great' against the run- so far as reading angles goes.

But that can be taught.

And he's what? 23?

So those of you that want a stout run defender will be upset, but those of you that look for a playmaker are probably happy.

It's a very similar situation to that of Ike Taylor- good cover CB, but terrible hands are a massive liability.

Again a rational view from "down under" versus the knee jerk, condemnation of a player who is only 23 which is the age of many players who will just be getting drafted this year.

Timmons adds a completely unique dimension. If you pay attention you see that he is asked at times to cover WRs in the slot and runs with them step for step. His inside blitzes add a dimension that we have never had.

Timmons will be a great player as he learns ILB but would be a greater player on the outside where he should be playing in a 4-3 defense.

SteelAbility

01-04-2010, 01:12 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

SidSmythe

01-04-2010, 01:20 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I agree . . . it's easy to fall in love w/ a guys athletic ability. Yeah, he's young but we are talking about the 15th overall pick here. I can name plenty of young guys who "get it" and show it play in and play out.

feltdizz

01-04-2010, 01:20 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

feltdizz

01-04-2010, 01:22 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I agree . . . it's easy to fall in love w/ a guys athletic ability. Yeah, he's young but we are talking about the 15th overall pick here. I can name plenty of young guys who "get it" and show it play in and play out.

the 14 guys picked above Timmons make mistakes and look like they don't "get it" on a few plays.

SteelAbility

01-04-2010, 01:28 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

I didn't say he's THE wink link. I said he's not a radiator. I have not seen "every down" performance out of him. The thing with Timmons is that when he makes a great play it gets all amplified cause he can really wow with his athletic ability. But in the down-in and down-out flow of the game he does not do well at controlling LOS. In that sense I definitely feel that there IS weakness in the Timmons link.

In fact I've been pretty outspoken on William Gay being the weak link.

SteelAbility

01-04-2010, 01:32 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I agree . . . it's easy to fall in love w/ a guys athletic ability. Yeah, he's young but we are talking about the 15th overall pick here. I can name plenty of young guys who "get it" and show it play in and play out.

the 14 guys picked above Timmons make mistakes and look like they don't "get it" on a few plays.

No argument there. The implied point is that they don't "get it" for a much lesser percentage of the time compared to Timmons.

feltdizz

01-04-2010, 01:42 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

I didn't say he's THE wink link. I said he's not a radiator. I have not seen "every down" performance out of him. The thing with Timmons is that when he makes a great play it gets all amplified cause he can really wow with his athletic ability. But in the down-in and down-out flow of the game he does not do well at controlling LOS. In that sense I definitely feel that there IS weakness in the Timmons link.

In fact I've been pretty outspoken on William Gay being the weak link.

When we have our healthy 11 in the game there is no one better to fill Timmons role. If anything Farrior will be replaced by Fox.

Slapstick

01-04-2010, 01:59 PM

No argument there. The implied point is that they don't "get it" for a much lesser percentage of the time compared to Timmons.

Which is a fallacious implication...

Mister Pittsburgh

01-04-2010, 02:12 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

I didn't read in there where he implied he was the weak link. The weak link in our D is obviously our secondary.

feltdizz

01-04-2010, 02:25 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

I didn't read in there where he implied he was the weak link. The weak link in our D is obviously our secondary.

if you want to replace him on certain downs then it is implied he is a weak link... You don't replace strong links or capable defenders.

papillon

01-04-2010, 02:29 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

It's not even close either. Everyone is hating on him because he was the 15th pick and he's playing like a second round pick, big deal. His rookie contract isn't stopping this team from doing the things they need to do financially. Every first round pick isn't turning into Troy or Ben.

There are problems that need to be corrected, he isn't one of them.

Pappy

birtikidis

01-04-2010, 02:55 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).
A radiator is also very good at cooling down things. such as motors.

SteelAbility

01-04-2010, 03:44 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

I didn't read in there where he implied he was the weak link. The weak link in our D is obviously our secondary.

if you want to replace him on certain downs then it is implied he is a weak link... You don't replace strong links or capable defenders.

The key here is the difference between "A weak link" and "THE weak link." You said that you disagree because Timmons is not THE weak link. I never implied that he was THE weak link.

"THE weak link" means that all other links have integrity, except for THE one. "A weak link" means one of at least two that have weakness. Under that definition, I definitely feel that there are significant weaknesses in Timmons' game and he qualifies as "a weak link" ... and I will qualify this ... AS AN EVERY-DOWN LBer ... because he has not demonstrated that he can control LOS.

I have left room for Timmons' starting against teams with weak running games (or pass-first offenses).

Shoe

01-04-2010, 03:47 PM

It's not even close either. Everyone is hating on him because he was the 15th pick and he's playing like a second round pick, big deal. His rookie contract isn't stopping this team from doing the things they need to do financially. Every first round pick isn't turning into Troy or Ben.

There are problems that need to be corrected, he isn't one of them.

Pappy

I totally agree with you Pap, though... it does especially hurt when we passed up Revis (and considering our NEED at CB currently) for Timmons.

Oviedo

01-04-2010, 03:58 PM

It's not even close either. Everyone is hating on him because he was the 15th pick and he's playing like a second round pick, big deal. His rookie contract isn't stopping this team from doing the things they need to do financially. Every first round pick isn't turning into Troy or Ben.

There are problems that need to be corrected, he isn't one of them.

Pappy

I totally agree with you Pap, though... it does especially hurt when we passed up Revis (and considering our NEED at CB currently) for Timmons.

We did not pass up Revis. He was picked before our pick came up. At that point it made no difference. Need to quit misremembering to try to detract from the decision the was made.

SteelAbility

01-04-2010, 04:01 PM

When I think of Timmons I think of the match versus the radiator. He has exceptional athletic ability. Hence, like a match he can get real hot ... but in one spot (the timing and circumstances have to be right and you'll see the full display of the matche's heat applied to whatever material).

But a match cannot heat a room like a radiator can. A radiator is an every-down LB who consistently takes good angles, holds his position and contributes strongly in control of the LOS. The radiator gets no glory. He creates a warm environment so his buddies can make plays and look good. I have yet to see that out of Timmons. If you want an every-down LB, you want a radiator, not a match.

I believe Timmons should be a situational guy (and perhaps get starts ... but situationally against teams that are particularly weak in the run game).

I disagree... he is not the weak link in our D.

It's not even close either. Everyone is hating on him because he was the 15th pick and he's playing like a second round pick, big deal. His rookie contract isn't stopping this team from doing the things they need to do financially. Every first round pick isn't turning into Troy or Ben.

There are problems that need to be corrected, he isn't one of them.

Pappy

I think people are missing (or misinterpreting my point). My point isn't that he's a problem and needs to be cut or something. He is a good player and has lots of value to us. He hasn't lived up to his draft position, IMO. That's a different debate, I suppose.

I think Timmons is a problem as an every down LBer ... in the sense that ... we could do better. IMO Fox is more effective as an every down LBer. I've heard the point that Timmons is much better pass-rusher than Fox. No argument there. However, a counter argument is that a guy who is better at defending the run makes the pass more predictable, enabling the team as a whole to improve its pass-rush. It's give/take. From what I saw this year, the D was more effective with Fox in than Timmons.

I would also argue that Timmons' great pass rush is particularly most effective in obvious passing situations where he comes in fresh on 2nd or 3rd and long (made possible by the fact that Fox is doing a better job at stuffing the run) and not after he's a bit gassed playing hard on 1st and 2nd down.

That being said, I am all for starting Timmons against teams with either a weak running game or teams that are embarrassingly pass-first. In other words, imposing a "Timmons will start" blanket policy, I believe, hurts the team. I actually think the majority of the starts should go to Fox.

Steelerphile

01-04-2010, 04:51 PM

From my point of view, Timmons had a good season. He wasn't great against the run, down after down, but he did show at times against the run. He is a developing player in that area, and I don't think he did a bad job of it.

He is above average as a pass defending LB and a far above average burst to the QB. You can't have everything or else they would be chiseling out a bust for him already to Canton. I still hold to the belief that in time he will cover all areas well enough to be called a star and an all-pro.

Chadman

01-04-2010, 06:23 PM

The Steelers run defense was once again a strength of the team this season. We are talking about a top 5 run defense.

If Timmons is so bad at run defense, wouldn't we see a greater drop off?

Can Fox fix the pass defense problems?

feltdizz

01-04-2010, 08:19 PM

The Steelers run defense was once again a strength of the team this season. We are talking about a top 5 run defense.

If Timmons is so bad at run defense, wouldn't we see a greater drop off?

Can Fox fix the pass defense problems?

Timmons is fine..

NorthCoast

01-04-2010, 10:13 PM

Timmons did what he was drafted to do, cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, occasional blitz. He is not a run stuffer at all. On a lot of running plays he is usually chasing his guy down from behind rather than meeting him head-on. He is definitely not slow, so it tells me he was out of position or took a poor angle to attack. I was hoping for Patrick Willis.... he would look real good in black-and-gold.

SteelAbility

01-05-2010, 08:55 AM

Timmons did what he was drafted to do, cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, occasional blitz. He is not a run stuffer at all. On a lot of running plays he is usually chasing his guy down from behind rather than meeting him head-on. He is definitely not slow, so it tells me he was out of position or took a poor angle to attack. I was hoping for Patrick Willis.... he would look real good in black-and-gold.

And the difference between taking a good angle and being in position is a run that goes for 7-8 yards vs. a run that goes for no more than 2. Add up those plays over the course of the game and cumulative result is a straining of the D.

SteelAbility

01-05-2010, 09:04 AM

The Steelers run defense was once again a strength of the team this season. We are talking about a top 5 run defense.

If Timmons is so bad at run defense, wouldn't we see a greater drop off?

Can Fox fix the pass defense problems?

That's a good question, but a bit vague. In 2008 our D was at 80.2 rushing YPG. In 2009 our D was at 89.9 rushing YPG. I think people would argue the loss of A. Smith. I'll buy into that somewhat. The more important question though is how many YPC are we allowing. In 2008 we were at 3.3. In 2009 we were at 3.9 (about 18% higher).

Fox could indirectly help fix the pass problems in that the improved run stuffing makes the pass more predictable, which also means it's more defendable. Predictability is a major factor in producing INTs.

papillon

01-05-2010, 09:44 AM

I think he gets a bad rap as a run stopper because he is an explosive athlete for his size. I'm not saying he sheds blocks great, but he does get off blocks when he has good technique. When he allows mauling type guards and centers to get into him he has problems. As he learns he will become a better run stopper at the point of attack. His ability to pursue is unmatched on this team at the LB position.

Pappy

Oviedo

01-05-2010, 09:48 AM

Timmons did what he was drafted to do, cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, occasional blitz. He is not a run stuffer at all. On a lot of running plays he is usually chasing his guy down from behind rather than meeting him head-on. He is definitely not slow, so it tells me he was out of position or took a poor angle to attack. I was hoping for Patrick Willis.... he would look real good in black-and-gold.

And the difference between taking a good angle and being in position is a run that goes for 7-8 yards vs. a run that goes for no more than 2. Add up those plays over the course of the game and cumulative result is a straining of the D.

Again the run defense did not slip because of Timmons starting so that isn't a valid argument.

In 2009 we were #3 (89 yds/game) versus the run and in 2008 were #2 (80 yds/game) Hardly a game changing difference plus we added Timmons' 8 or 9 sacks. The Timmons weakens the defense argument is ridiculous.

stlrz d

01-05-2010, 09:54 AM

Timmons did what he was drafted to do, cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, occasional blitz. He is not a run stuffer at all. On a lot of running plays he is usually chasing his guy down from behind rather than meeting him head-on. He is definitely not slow, so it tells me he was out of position or took a poor angle to attack. I was hoping for Patrick Willis.... he would look real good in black-and-gold.

And the difference between taking a good angle and being in position is a run that goes for 7-8 yards vs. a run that goes for no more than 2. Add up those plays over the course of the game and cumulative result is a straining of the D.

Again the run defense did not slip because of Timmons starting so that isn't a valid argument.

In 2009 we were #3 (89 yds/game) versus the run and in 2008 were #2 (80 yds/game) Hardly a game changing difference plus we added Timmons' 8 or 9 sacks. The Timmons weakens the defense argument is ridiculous.

Where are you on the women weaken legs argument? :P

phillyesq

01-05-2010, 10:38 AM

Timmons did what he was drafted to do, cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield, occasional blitz. He is not a run stuffer at all. On a lot of running plays he is usually chasing his guy down from behind rather than meeting him head-on. He is definitely not slow, so it tells me he was out of position or took a poor angle to attack. I was hoping for Patrick Willis.... he would look real good in black-and-gold.

And the difference between taking a good angle and being in position is a run that goes for 7-8 yards vs. a run that goes for no more than 2. Add up those plays over the course of the game and cumulative result is a straining of the D.

Again the run defense did not slip because of Timmons starting so that isn't a valid argument.

In 2009 we were #3 (89 yds/game) versus the run and in 2008 were #2 (80 yds/game) Hardly a game changing difference plus we added Timmons' 8 or 9 sacks. The Timmons weakens the defense argument is ridiculous.

I think the YPC stat is more telling than the YPG stat, but by either measure, the run defense was worse this year.

I don't think that the run defense slipped just because of Timmons, but I'm not sure that he made the defense much better, either. IMO, he made more of impact last year playing only in obvious passing situations than he did this year as a regular starter.

On most sacks that I can remember this year, Timmons was unblocked. I haven't seen much from him in the way of pass rush moves at all. He was drafted based on potential, and IMO, he is still getting by on potential. His performance does not meet the expectations that come with his draft status. I think both David Harris and John Beason are better ILBs out of that draft class than Timmons.

Shoe

01-06-2010, 03:44 AM

We did not pass up Revis. He was picked before our pick came up. At that point it made no difference. Need to quit misremembering to try to detract from the decision the was made.

My mistake. I read it here before, and just took it as fact. I'm sorry.

frankthetank1

01-06-2010, 11:21 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft

this puts things in perspective a little bit. at least there are not any lb's picked after timmons that stand out. drafting bowe would have been nice but we are set at wr anyways so thats not a huge deal. willis and revis have definetly been the best players in that first round on the defensive side but both were picked before timmons. besides timmons is very young and playing out of position. he really should be playing OLB but we have wood and harrison so you cant make any change there.

phillyesq

01-06-2010, 01:38 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft

this puts things in perspective a little bit. at least there are not any lb's picked after timmons that stand out. drafting bowe would have been nice but we are set at wr anyways so thats not a huge deal. willis and revis have definetly been the best players in that first round on the defensive side but both were picked before timmons. besides timmons is very young and playing out of position. he really should be playing OLB but we have wood and harrison so you cant make any change there.

Beason had been a pro bowl LB, and David Harris has also played very well.

A very interesting comparison is Paul Posluszny (and, for the records, I was not among those who were on the bandwagon to draft him). He missed four games this season and still ended with 110 tackles and 3 picks. :stirpot :stirpot :stirpot

papillon

01-06-2010, 01:46 PM

I'd like to see Timmons return to his 2008 role in the defense until Silverback retires or becomes ineffective. Be patient, Timmons will get his chance at OLB in a few years and he'll excel. I'd love for him to be on the field in passing situations, giving Harrison a breather and as relief for Farrior on occasion.

Pappy

Slapstick

01-06-2010, 02:02 PM

Timmons is not a problem at ILB...

SteelAbility

01-06-2010, 02:03 PM

I'd like to see Timmons return to his 2008 role in the defense until Silverback retires or becomes ineffective. Be patient, Timmons will get his chance at OLB in a few years and he'll excel. I'd love for him to be on the field in passing situations, giving Harrison a breather and as relief for Farrior on occasion.

Pappy

Agreed. I too think Timmons is much better placed at OLB.

Oviedo

01-06-2010, 02:09 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft

this puts things in perspective a little bit. at least there are not any lb's picked after timmons that stand out. drafting bowe would have been nice but we are set at wr anyways so thats not a huge deal. willis and revis have definetly been the best players in that first round on the defensive side but both were picked before timmons. besides timmons is very young and playing out of position. he really should be playing OLB but we have wood and harrison so you cant make any change there.

Beason had been a pro bowl LB, and David Harris has also played very well.

A very interesting comparison is Paul Posluszny (and, for the records, I was not among those who were on the bandwagon to draft him). He missed four games this season and still ended with 110 tackles and 3 picks. :stirpot :stirpot :stirpot

He pays on a team that lost all their established starters in the off season before he was drafted. He was handed a starting role by default and can't stay healthy.

phillyesq

01-06-2010, 02:18 PM

I'd like to see Timmons return to his 2008 role in the defense until Silverback retires or becomes ineffective. Be patient, Timmons will get his chance at OLB in a few years and he'll excel. I'd love for him to be on the field in passing situations, giving Harrison a breather and as relief for Farrior on occasion.

Pappy

Twenty years ago, this kind of approach would be fine, but that isn't the reality of the NFL today. A top 15 pick needs to start contributing early in his career. Teams don't have the luxury of waiting 5 years for somebody to come around.