"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy" -- Shakespeare

Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:06 AM

aztek, on 14 February 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

you can't really brainwash home schooled kids that don't go to public school, all the wonderfull things they are tought in schols, like calling 911 if parents are punishing you. among other things. what will happen to our country if a missbehaving kids looses his right to be imune from punishment, omg.
my friend's kid called cops 3 times on them cuz he was not getting what he wanted, nasty litte f..ck. he was thought that in school, and the sadest part is, no one tells him it is wrong, even cops, so he keeps doing it, and feels like he won, and has power over parents, and it is true

"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy" -- Shakespeare

Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:11 AM

Eonwe, on 14 February 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

So, basically Holder is saying the following:

"You can't teach your children. A government funded public school system, overseen by the Department of Education, knows best. The government knows best; the government mandated school systems must teach your children."

If Obama’s dream for this nation becomes reality, then those post apocalyptical worlds from those movies like Mad Max to Damnation Alley to Book of Eli to The Postman to Falling Skies to Walking Dead to Omega Man to The Last Stand may not be so bad and would be a number of times more preferable.

1. Ever know any introverted, socially awkward public school kids? There are plenty. One can't site a socially awkward homeschooler as the norm or as missing in public school students.

2. The number of activities for homeschoolers is actually quite extensive in many cities across the USA. Many do co-ops, have play days, sporting opportunities, group field trips, they do year books and dances and exchange programs and the kids develop close friendships, so do the moms/families.

3. For those who mistakenly think homeschooling is about isolationism and moms who want to be shut in the home with their kids...this is just ignorance at its best. It's 2013.

4. Do radical homeschoolers exist? Yes, in rare situations. Are their parents any worse or weirder than some public school parent's ideologies? No.

5. Will homeschoolers now somehow create unemployment lines and fill jail cells and therapy sessions? Can't blame them for that either. Those are already full of public school graduates.

I was just pointing out that my friend in particular didn't develop his social skills until he was around 18 or 19 because he was homeschooled.

When I was in high school - I was in public school, highly introverted, no friends, was in no activities, and sat around and read Nietzsche.

I didn't begin to get out of my shell until I was about 16; when I met him I was 16 and he was 18. In the case of the two of us he had friends, played soccer, went to Church - yet still had extreme anxiety and had a hard time talking to any one - and to this day still does to an extent ecause he lacked the social experiences I had gone through because of all of the years of public schooling. Whereas, even despite my lack of social skills, I could still interact with people to some degree. And now I'm a very friendly and laid back person.

Edited by Eonwe, 15 February 2013 - 10:12 AM.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

I think the US is ready for a new rule that bans the word "ban" from the govt vocabulary.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature. The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding." ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity. To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth!

Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

OverSword, on 14 February 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Actually there were a couple of kids that were home schooled that I used to hang out with and shoot hoops and such and my little brother had one on his soccer team so you can't say they had interaction with other kids 'withheld'.

Point of interest, the two I played with one was two years older and the other the same age as I (brothers) were in Universities by the time they were 16 years old. So just what were they missing out on? Being bullied for one, being brainwashed into thinking the USA can do no wrong for two.

where they asylum seekers from another country where they do not want to have their children schooled in either.
I am not at all anti home tutoring, quite the opposite.
There are children who are home taught by their educated parents.
But this incident is not just about parents wanting to teach their children at home. As you have said yourself, read the full article.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

I was just pointing out that my friend in particular didn't develop his social skills until he was around 18 or 19 because he was homeschooled.

When I was in high school - I was in public school, highly introverted, no friends, was in no activities, and sat around and read Nietzsche.

I didn't begin to get out of my shell until I was about 16; when I met him I was 16 and he was 18. In the case of the two of us he had friends, played soccer, went to Church - yet still had extreme anxiety and had a hard time talking to any one - and to this day still does to an extent ecause he lacked the social experiences I had gone through because of all of the years of public schooling. Whereas, even despite my lack of social skills, I could still interact with people to some degree. And now I'm a very friendly and laid back person.

I wasn't attacking your post. I was responding in general to a very common objection brought up against homeschooling.
But there is no guarantee had your friend gone through formal schooling he wouldn't still struggle, as plenty of brick and mortar graduates do.
I can remember several Wall Flowers in high school, who clung to the lockers and found it difficult to look you in the eye or walk through a crowd or enter a classroom with any kind of confidence.
Therapy and medications for social anxiety are not something new due to homeschooling.
Socialization doesn't begin and end in a classroom of peers in a school building. It can happen anywhere, even in your own home, with all ages of people.

I wasn't attacking your post. I was responding in general to a very common objection brought up against homeschooling.
But there is no guarantee had your friend gone through formal schooling he wouldn't still struggle, as plenty of brick and mortar graduates do.
I can remember several Wall Flowers in high school, who clung to the lockers and found it difficult to look you in the eye or walk through a crowd or enter a classroom with any kind of confidence.
Therapy and medications for social anxiety are not something new due to homeschooling.
Socialization doesn't begin and end in a classroom of peers in a school building. It can happen anywhere, even in your own home, with all ages of people.

My apologies. Some times it's hard to decipher the intentions of others through mere text.

I agree that it can happen with all people - but I was just citing that his issues - as he told me himself, stem from being homeschooled.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

My apologies. Some times it's hard to decipher the intentions of others through mere text.

I agree that it can happen with all people - but I was just citing that his issues - as he told me himself, stem from being homeschooled.

I'd blame parenting, personality, etc rather than homeschooling. Could formal schooling have made up for it? Sure.
And yet had he gone to formal school the jackals may have harassed him until he became even worse.

I'd blame parenting, personality, etc rather than homeschooling. Could formal schooling have made up for it? Sure.
And yet had he gone to formal school the jackals may have harassed him until he became even worse.

Bullying can make things worse, I cannot argue there.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

It is very rare to find a school that completely teaches us the proper history and let us decide our own ideology. This is why we have the constitution that gives us the freedom of religion, freedom of ideology, freedom of speech, and other forms of freedoms that allows us to live our lives the way we want. Without it we are at the mercy of those who want to control us, to lead us to further their agendas based on what we are taught and preached too about. If you refuse to, they would be able to out-right kill us in public and get away with it because there nothing that states the government would be held accountable for their actions. What should they be held accountable for?

To indoctrinate us with their ideology and agendas, so we end up completing their agenda without us knowing the purpose. Let's say they teach us that the constitution is an useless document, a relic of past, subject to being replaced. We go ahead and petition for it to be changed, then the government sweeps in and replaces it with a document that restricts our freedoms instead of ensures it. Now guess what, us citizens have been had because we gave away our rights willingly because the government taught us too in the schools and college. And the kicker to this, it is currently happening with the liberal agenda in our colleges and schools. If we didn't have citizens defending the constitution and bill of rights, the government would micro-manage our lives like livestock, forcing us to fight their wars instead of trying to trick us into fighting them. At least when they are trying to trick us, we can decide which wars are just and which ones are illegal, then we can hold our government officials accountable for their actions.

Now let's take a look at home schooling. The real danger in home schooling is massive illegal immigration who refuse to integrate, they use forged documents and stolen social security numbers to gain social services. Illegal immigrants avoid public schools and prefer home school, because they fear they will be caught and deported. Because of the home schooling of illegals, the children will not intergraded while they are national citizens, which means they will obtain the ideology of another nation influencing our elections and even our laws because the nationalized citizens of the nation are outnumbered when it comes to voting. You say they can't vote because they don't have a registration card? They already have forged documents, why not have a forged registration card that allow for them to vote and influence our nation? This then becomes a question of sovereignty instead of a question of moral decisions.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 15 February 2013 - 02:29 PM.

A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. - Albert Einstein

Sorry for the long written post, I tried to bring as much reason and understanding I can to the post. Also it has some of my views, so you can see where I am coming from.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 15 February 2013 - 02:28 PM.

A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. - Albert Einstein

Farris outlined three arguments made by the U.S. Department of Justice lawyers which should be of concern to American homeschooling families:He said the first argument in essence is that a government isn’t violating anyone’s rights if homeschooling is banned altogether.

This is one of the arguments used to deny political asylum to Germans seeking to home school thier children in the USA after being found in violation of German law against homeschooling for some apparently but not all Germans.

Eric Holder really needs to be fired. That's the legal thing that i can say....for now.

*jaw hanging*
I wondered if this would come down the pike ,given they are now teaching our kids to be good communists in school,but its not violating anyones rights ?
Its bad enough they want to remove our rights as pet owners ,"for the good of the animal",but our kids too ...
And no one gets why gun control is their main objective ?