4:53pm: Australian shares have extended their longest losing streak in eight months as a jump in the unemployment rate to a 12-year high caught investors by surprise.

It was the fifth consecutive session of losses on the local bourse. The last time shares fell for more than five sessions in a row was when the market retreated for six sessions straight in early December as signs of strength in the US economy foreshadowed the start of a reduction in the Federal Reserve’s asset buying program that month.

The benchmark S&P/ASX 200 Index and the broader All Ordinaries Index each edged down less than 0.1 per cent on Thursday to 5509 points and 550.7 points, respectively. After opening higher, the market quickly fell away, having taken a weak lead from Wall St.

Mining was the strongest sector on Thursday as Australia’s biggest iron ore exporter, Rio Tinto, lifted 0.8 per cent to $66.32 with investors confident the company was on track to meet its full year profit guidance. After the market closed, Rio Tinto announced a 21 per cent rise in underlying profit to $5.1 billion - beating JP Morgan estimates for $5.04 billion.

Main rival BHP Billiton added 0.4 per cent to $38.47. The spot price for iron ore, delivered in China, was 0.4 per cent firmer at $US95.90 a tonne with futures traders tipping it to edge higher overnight.

Falls in the big four banks weighed heavily on the market.

“The two biggest miners and the big four banks will likely continue to deliver very solid results . But it is obvious that these six stocks can not continue to drive profit growth as they have in the past,” Merlon Capital Partners portfolio manager Neil Margolissaid.

“On a three-year view there is better value to be had among industrial companies and non-bank financial services players,” Mr Margolis said.

4:06pm: The highest Australian unemployment rate in 12 years has brought forward bets on an interest rate cut by the Reserve Bank as traders increasingly believe the economy will need a stimulus.

The nation's unemployment rate jumped to 6.4 per cent in July, up from 6 per cent in June, as jobs creation proved unexpectedly weak. The worst outcome since 2002 means that more Australians are now out of work than during the global financial crisis.

Economists attributed some of the blame to the May federal budget, which has dented consumer confidence, poor capital spending intentions by business and changes to the survey that may have skewed the headline result because the definition of those actively looking for work has been modified.

The surprise result has been reflected in traders' bets where interest rates are going: They now see a 35 per cent chance that the official cash rate will be reduced to 2.25 per cent from 2.5 per cent by year end, versus a 30 per cent likehood by March 2015. That means that the market is pricing in a theoretical cash rate of 2.4 per cent in December.

However, the majority of experts still do not think the RBA will budge from 2.5 per cent, consistent with its expectation for sub-trend growth that it had conveyed in previous statements.

“If we had three numbers [like today] in a row, absolutely the RBA would be contemplating rate cuts,” said Annette Beacher, TD Securities' head of Asia-Pacific research, FX and rates strategy. A single bad month would not be enough to sway the central bank’s bias, she said. “To get the RBA to shift, things need to be different to what they expect.”

3:42pm: The best way to reach for that pie in the sky... strapped to a jet pack:

Martin Aircraft, a New Zealand company with plans to launch the world’s first commercial jet pack in 2016, has now raised more than half the $4.6 million it has been seeking in a pre-IPO capital raising and is now targeting a dual-listing on the New Zealand Stock Exchange and Australian Securities Exchange in November.

A prospectus for an initial public offering to raise about $25 million is expected to be lodged with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission within weeks.

Corporate adviser Axstra Capital has been introducing Martin Aircraft to sophisticated Australian investors since February in a bid to drum up $NZ5 million ($4.6 million) to get commercial production off the ground ahead of an IPO that was initially flagged for late 2014 or early 2015.

It is understood about $3 million has already been secured in pre-IPO capital, with individual contributions ranging in size from $50,000 to $650, 000.

3:10pm:Last week’s global sell-off, the worst since January, had all the features that make such market events both frightening and exciting for investors. It serves as a reminder to policy makers of the latent threats to financial stability, and the implication this carries for growth and jobs. It also provides insights for the more bumpy road that lies ahead.

The sell-off was sharp, sudden and generalised. In just a few days, the downturn erased the year-to-date gains for major US equity indices, with virtually every segment – both large and small – experiencing significant losses. To add insult to injury, conventional correlations among asset classes broke down as the spillover of the equity market correction spread beyond corporate credit. Commodities also sold off, as did the safest of all havens, German and US government bonds. As such, well-diversified asset allocations did little to mitigate portfolio risks.

Rather than being driven by a single factor, last week’s correction reflected the cumulative impact of multiple causes that markets could no longer shrug off given their high valuations and unbalanced investor positioning. They covered geopolitical, financial, economic and policy factors.

2:31pm: Thursday’s startling jobless rate headline probably needs to be taken with a bucket of salt.

With the Australian Bureau of Statistics making adjustments to the way it does its monthly labour force survey for the first time in July, there’s a chance the 6.4 per cent unemployment rate is a rogue number.

Most worryingly, the ABS isn’t entirely sure either.

While it claims the changes haven’t affected the underlying figures, it concedes that “accurately measuring any impact is expensive and complex [so] the ABS did not introduce special measurement arrangements”.

In other words, a cash-strapped bureau at the heart of determining how this economy is travelling doesn’t have the money to test its own work.

While there is no doubt the labour market has softened since the May budget, the doom-and-gloom implied by the worst jobless rate in 12 years may be overstated.

It also raises the worrying possibility that the negative cascading effects of a scary-looking number triggers another sharp plunge in household confidence – perhaps only because of a methodological change by the official statistician.

2:21pm: A new report using fresh federal government data has found recent overseas-born arrivals to Australia have "taken almost all of the net job growth" since 2011.

Immigration experts Dr Bob Birrell and Dr Ernest Healy have obtained fresh Australian Bureau of Statistics information showing that 380,000 arrivals to Australia since 2011 had found jobs. But over the same period, net job growth was only 400,000.

The pair have called for changes to Australia's skilled migrant program in order to provide more opportunities for citizens and permanent residents.

They found that Australia continues to grant skilled migration visas to thousands of foreign cooks and accountants. This is despite an excess of local candidates suitable for those jobs, and government claims the migration program is attracting workers who have skills required by Australia.

Confidential Immigration Department documents obtained by Fairfax Media reveal that many of those foreign workers who have gained permanent residency in Australia through skilled migration programs are likely to have first arrived as students in suspected fraudulent international education schemes operating between 2006 and 2010.

1:52pm:Iron ore is always the focus of Rio Tinto’s financial results, but the long-suffering aluminium division could provide one of the more interesting tales when the diversified miner reports its half-year results this afternoon.

While the aluminium division is predicted to supply just $US347 million ($371 million) of the $US4.7 billion half-year earnings result tipped by UBS, such a result would be an improvement on the $123 million worth of earnings the business delivered in the first half of 2013.

The aluminium division has suffered close to $US28 billion worth of impairments over recent years as rampant production by rivals in China dragged down prices for the versatile and lightweight metal, which is widely used in the aviation industry.

But aluminium producers that control their own supply of bauxite and alumina – such as Rio Tinto and Alcoa – are becoming increasingly confident about their future prospects.

Demand for aluminium is improving from vehicle manufacturers, while high-cost smelters have been shut down, and an export ban in Indonesia has interrupted China’s most important supply of bauxite, which is the prime ingredient in the production of alumina and aluminium.

All those factors are helping to turn the aluminium sector around; contract prices for the metal have risen by about 12 per cent in 2014, and there are expectations a decade-long surplus of aluminium could slide into a deficit within one year.

As one of the world’s top five producers of aluminium by volume, and the owner of more than 20 assets tied to the aluminium production cycle, a sustained improvement in aluminium markets would be cause for optimism at Rio, which has been criticised for being too reliant on iron ore.

UBS expects iron ore to deliver close to 89 per cent of group earnings at the half-year. Its forecast for Rio’s net earnings to come in at $US4.7 billion is higher than the $US4.56 billion tipped by a consensus of analysts surveyed by Bloomberg.

Both RBC Capital Markets and UBS expect Rio will stick with its policy of returning half of the previous year’s full-year dividend to shareholders at the August results.

That should see Rio return $US0.96 per share, which is 15 per cent higher than was returned in August 2013.

1:41pm:Expectations of a rate increase in the United States are now firmly being factored into the investment horizon of many portfolio managers - and so too is a view that stocks should outperform bonds for another three years before hitting a wall, says Goldman Sachs.

Both the futures market and Goldman’s economics team are tipping the first initial rate hike in the US to occur in roughly 12 months' time. The broker expects the near zero per cent Fed funds rate will rise to 4 per cent by 2018.

This prediction is based on the view that US economic growth, as measured by gross domestic product (GDP) growth, will accelerate towards 3 per cent.

Goldman Sachs US equity strategist David J. Kostin reckons that if that happens, it should translate to “dramatically greater returns for stocks versus bonds in the next several years” as the interest rate environment starts to return to more normal settings moving towards 2018.

“The S&P 500 will generate an annualisedtotal return of 6 per cent between now and 2018 when Fed funds reach a “neutral” level of 4 per cent,” said Mr Kostin in a note to investors.

“We assume a neutral Fed funds rate will be reached in 2018, and 10-year Treasuries will yield 4.5 per cent. Our baseline scenario implies an annualised total return of 1 per cent on a constant maturity 10-year Treasury note through year-end 2018.

“Buying a 10-year Treasury note and holding it through 2018 would also generate a nominal annualised return of 1 per cent,” he said.

The difference in timing of between when the US and Australia start raising rates is important to the performance of the Australian financial markets as most asset classes take their lead from the US.

1:26pm:Van Eyk has temporarily suspended all applications and redemptions on one of its funds after the underlying manager unexpectedly invested in a portfolio that was not in line with the fund's strategy.

The [halt on] van Eyk Blueprint International Share Fund has been imposed after Artefact Partners, which constitutes approximately 32% of the fund's assets, made an illiquid investment.

"Contrary to our expectations, the underlying manager, Artefact Partners, elected to invest in a portfolio that was not in line with VBI's strategy and objectives. Artefact was appointed in July 2012," van Eyk said.

As a consequence, VBI has ceased to be a liquid scheme as defined by the Corporations Act.

Van Eyk and Macquarie Investment Management, the fund's responsible entity, "have determined that it is in the best interest of investors to temporarily suspend pricing, applications and redemptions," the company said.

12:53pm:Amazon.com is giving special privileges to companies that sell their wares directly through its online store rather than via its network of third-party resellers.

Companies such as Burberry Group and Levi Strauss that partner with Amazon have scored unusual deals that let them control how their merchandise is sold through the world's largest online retailer, according to a study by market researcher L2 to be released this week. The companies have been able to limit the sale of goods from third-party resellers - a practice its chief executive, Jeff Bezos, has traditionally let run unimpeded despite objections from some brands.

L2's study offers a rarely seen glimpse into Amazon's relationship with suppliers whose products fill its website. Those that choose closer ties enjoy benefits such as getting their products more prominently featured to millions of shoppers. By contrast, companies that don't partner with Amazon often continue to see their goods being sold through the web retailer's network of resellers without curtailment, meaning they aren't able to reap the rewards of sales that instead flow to third-party merchants.

Consider the different experiences of Ralph Lauren and Levi's on Amazon, according to the study: Ralph Lauren, which doesn't have an agreement with the online retailer to offer its clothing or accessories through the site, had more than 9000 items available on Amazon as of April via resellers. By contrast, no merchandise from Levi's, which has a deal to distribute its apparel on Amazon, can be purchased from a reseller. Levi's products are only available from Amazon itself.

"It's definitely [a case of] pay to play, and they are definitely muscling brands and retailers around," said Scott Galloway, a marketing professor at New York University's Stern School of Business

12:36pm:Woolworths has acquired another 16 hardware stores in NSW and Queensland for around $20 million after securing approval from the competition regulator to proceed with the purchase of Hudson Building Supplies from Fletcher Building.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission approved the Hudsons acquisition following a 38-day inquiry into the impact on competition.

The ACCC found the acquisition was unlikely to substantially lessen competition in any local market for the retail supply of building supplies, hardware and home improvement products.

ACCC chairman Rod Sims said the ACCC took into account the overlap between Hudsons and Woolworths’s big-box home improvement stores, Masters.

Hudsons’ main customers are builders and tradespeople who have materials delivered to building sites.

While there was some overlap between Hudsons and Masters in the supply of products and services to smaller trade customers, the ACCC found that the degree of overlap in this customer segment was limited.

Masters, a joint venture between Woolworths and US home improvement chain Lowe’s, was likely to be competitively constrained by other competitors including Wesfarmers’ Bunnings and Metcash’s Mitre 10 stores.

The Hudsons acquisition follows the 2009 purchase by Woolworths of hardware wholesaler Danks and the subsequent acquisition of Magnet Mart, Mittagong Home Timber & Hardware, FAW Building Supplies and Hardings Hardware.

Woolworths and Lowe’s now own about 40 Masters big-box stores and about 43 Home Timber and smaller hardware stores. They also supply another 485 independently operated hardware stores under the Home Timber and Thrifty-link banners.

Only 13, or 6 per cent, of Parliament’s 226 members own no real estate.

The analysis comes as Australia’s home values reach new heights, with the latest data showing prices rising again in Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra.

Values in Sydney grew over the year to July by 14.8 per cent, while Melbourne’s rose 11 per cent, RP Data figures show.

The combination of high property prices and lack of political action to make housing more affordable prompted the authors of the analysis to ask: “Are the property holdings of our federal politicians negatively influencing policy and causing them to ignore evidence?”

11:00am: A UK adviser to institutional investors with more than 1.5 trillion pounds ($2.7 trillion) in assets said shareholders in Rio Tinto and SABMiller should be concerned about sharing a chairman from next year.

SABMiller, the world's second-biggest brewer, said on Wednesday Jan du Plessis will replace John Manser as chairman in July. Du Plessis, 60, chairman of Rio since 2009, will become an independent non-executive director at the maker of Grolsch and Peroni beers in September, it said in a statement.

"Rio is an enormous diversified global resources company and our view would be chairing a company like Rio would be very close to being a full-time job, if it is to be done effectively," Andrew Whiley, a spokesman for Pensions & Investment Research Consultants, said by phone. "Are SABMiller really saying that out of all of the talented men and women that could chair their company that this is the best candidate available?"

"Shareholders of both Rio and SAB Miller should be concerned," Whiley from PIRC said. "Is the chair of their company able to allocate sufficient time and attention required to chair two large organisations?"

10:44am:Rupert Murdoch says his 21st Century Fox has made a “resolute decision” to walk away from its $US80 billion bid for rival Time Warner and his lieutenant, Chase Carey, says Fox has no plans to pursue an alternative content company.

Announcing higher adjusted earnings per share and a double-digit revenue rise for the fourth quarter, Mr Murdoch said Fox’s share price was “severely undervalued” which is why the company had launched a $US6 billion share buyback program upon dropping the bid.

Mr Murdoch told investors on a conference call on Thursday morning that Fox had made the takeover proposal – which would have created the world’s largest media and entertainment company - because it viewed it as a unique opportunity with clear strategic benefits.

Many investors remain convinced Mr Murdoch will renew his pursuit of Time Warner after news leaked last month that it had rebuffed Fox’s audacious $US85 a share offer. Mr Murdoch was prepared to pay up to $US95 a share, it is understood.

However, Mr Murdoch said Fox had withdrawn its offer due to “the refusal of the Time Warner board to engage with us to explore this compelling offer, coupled with the reaction in our share price that undervalued our stock”.

10:33am: Consumer and business financier Flexigroup has hit its full year guidance of $85 million cash net profit, up 18 per cent compared to 2013.

However, its statutory profit is down 13 per cent to $57.6 million due to what it called one-off spending on IT software, impairment of goodwill and costs for the acquisition and integration of new businesses.

Revenue rose 15 per cent to $249.1 million, backed by a 13 per cent increase in “receivables” particularly in its New Zealand leasing business and its business and consumer interest-free cards.

The company said its source of profits continued to shift to its “no interest ever” Certegy business, which is mostly solar panel leasing at the moment, with this business adding $15.7 million to NPAT.

The company said the result was driven by a turnaround in sales volumes from a decline in the first half of 2014 to 9 per cent growth as well as a lower cost of funding from recent securitisations of its assets.

This business now accounts for a third of its revenue, which has overtaken its traditional consumer leasing business offered via brands FlexiRent and FlexiWay in big electronics department stores like Harvey Norman and Dick Smith.

Profits in this divisioncontinued to decline, falling 10 per cent to $26 million, even though volume of sales was up 1 per cent to $189 million.

Analysts have expressed concern about the impact on earnings of hikes in technology spending needed to shift its business to online channels with its retail partners.

The biggest growth has come from its recently acquired Lombard and Once interest free cards offered via retailers, with profits jumping by 307 per cent to $11 million, with sales up 127 per cent to $200 million.

10:09am: The co-founder of SocietyOne, a peer-to-peer start-up wooed by Kerry Stokes and James Packer, has launched an internet shopping site designed to use group buying and imports from Hong Kong to undercut local retailers.

Andy Taylor formally launched Yatango Shopping on Wednesday - a website where distributors bid for the right to sell customers big-name brands such as Apple, Nike and Chanel.

But his site’s launch comes as the online retail shopping market undergoes widespread consolidation with smaller websites being swallowed up by bigger rivals.

Mr Taylor said his site was different because it worked directly with product distributors in Australia and overseas, who in turn bid their lowest possible price for a range of products like smartphones, cameras and cosmetics.

Customers buying the products would automatically get them from the cheapest supplier with free shipping for goods worth over $30.

Where a Samsung Galaxy S5 16GB would cost $897 at JB Hi-Fi, it costs $660 at Yatango.

“We work mostly with suppliers, distributors and manufacturers although we have some retailers in there,” he said. “We have a range of [distributors] out of Hong Kong, some of them here ... and one of our largest retail partners out of Hong Kong is StrawberryNet."

He also promised the goods would be genuine and covered by global warranties.

9:50am:Iron ore will extend a drop through 2015 when an increase in seaborne supply that’s spurred a global glut is set to accelerate, said Goldman Sachs Group.

While the expansion in supply will probably moderate in the second half of 2014, the trend rate of growth in seaborne cargoes exceeds demand by a ratio of three to one, the bank said in a report dated today. Goldman kept its forecast for the steelmaking raw material at an average of $US80 a metric ton in 2015 from $106 this year.

Prices have tumbled 29 per cent in 2014 as companies from Rio Tinto to BHP Billiton increased output, betting higher volumes will more than offset falling prices. JPMorgan analysts are more optimistic, they expect the iron ore price to average $US97/tonne in 2015, with a longer term price target of $US80/tonne. Deutsche Bank and Morgan Stanley see lower rates through 2016.

Fortescue MetalsGroup has said it’s completed a $US9.2 billion expansion to boost annual output to 155 million tons.

“The shift to oversupply started barely six months ago and the adjustment phase is far from over,” said Goldman analysts Christian Lelong and Amber Cai. “Seaborne supply is set to accelerate again in 2015 while Chinese steel production growth slows further.”

Ore with 62 per cent content delivered to Tianjin increased 0.4 percent to $95.90 a dry ton today, according to data from The Steel Index Ltd. Prices entered a bear market in March and dropped to $89 on June 16, the lowest level since September 2012. China buys 67 per cent of global seaborne supply.

While mining companies plan to boost shipments, a labour dispute over leave and wages threatens to disrupt cargoes at Australia’s Port Hedland, the world’s largest bulk terminal.

9:33am:Gold futures on Wednesday jumped the most in six weeks in New York as signs of escalating tension between Ukraine and Russia fueled demand for precious metals as a haven.

NATO said there's a risk of Russia sending troops into Ukraine under the "pretext" of a humanitarian or peacekeeping mission after President Vladimir Putin massed soldiers on his country's western border. The MSCI All-Country World Index of equities fell as much as 0.7 per cent after Italy unexpectedly slipped back into recession.

Bullion prices climbed 8.8 per cent this year as tensions in Eastern Europe and violence in the Middle East renewed investor interest in the metal. The 2014 rally has topped gains for broad measures of stocks, Treasuries and commodities. Last month, holdings in exchange-traded products backed by the metal rose the most since November 2012.

"Gold is getting the fear bid," Charlie Bilello, director of research who helps oversee $US220 million of assets at New York-based Pension Partners, said. "Concern about a correction in the equity market is also bringing some people to gold."

On the Comex, gold futures for December delivery rose 1.8 per cent to settle at $US1,308.20 an ounce at 1:38 p.m. in New York, the biggest gain for a most-active contract since June 19. Prices reached $US1,311 Wednesday, the highest since July 29.

The metal tumbled 28 per cent in 2013, the most in three decades, after some investors lost their faith in the metal as a store of value amid an equity rally and as inflation remained muted.

Bullion dropped 3 per cent last month on concern that the Federal Reserve would raise interest rates as the economy gained traction. Prices jumped 70 per cent from December 2008 to June 2011 as the Fed bought debt and held borrowing costs at an all- time low.

9:28am: Gaming and wagering company Tabcorp has reported a 2.6 per cent rise in net profit to $129.9 million, which was dragged down by a $19.5 million levy related to its previous operation of poker machines in Victoria.

Excluding the effect of the health benefit levy for the management of pokies, which Tabcorp is fighting in the Victorian courts, the company’s net profit from continuing operations of $149.4 million was in line with the analysts’ consensus of $146.8 million, according to Bloomberg.

The underlying result represents a 7.4 per cent increase on underlying net profit of $139.1 million reported in the 2013 financial year.

The company reported a 4 per cent decrease in revenue to 2.04 billion in the year ended June 30, which was in line with expectations.

Earnings before interest and tax from continuing operations was flat at $321.7 million, which was just above consensus of $318.7 million. EBIT in the prior year was $322.1 million.

The board declared a dividend of 8¢, which was in line with last year’s payout and is to be paid on September 24.

Tabcorp’s share price has had a volatile past 12 months.

At Wednesday’s closing price of $3.45 it had gained 2.5 per cent over the past year, underperforming the S&P/ASX 200 index (8 per cent), as well as consumer discretionary stocks in the index (6.7 per cent). The stock was climbing strongly until mid-May when the proposition of a new fee regime proposed for Victorian racing lead to a plunge that erased a lot of the gains.

9:25am: The Italian economy shrank in the second quarter, according to an official estimate Wednesday, taking economists by surprise and provoking concern that violence in Ukraine and tension with Russia could be pushing the eurozone back into recession.

Gross domestic product contracted 0.2 per cent from April through June, compared with the first quarter of 2014, Istat, the Italian statistics office, said in a preliminary estimate. It was the second quarterly decline in a row for Italy, meeting the most common definition of a recession. In the first quarter, output shrank 0.1 per cent compared with the previous quarter.

The decline dashed hopes that Italy was finally emerging from a decade of stagnation. Along with a report of a sharp decline in German factory orders, it raised questions about the health of the eurozone as a whole.

The deteriorating Italian economy also steps up pressure on Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, who less than a week ago promised not to impose any more government budget cuts and to invest in improving the country's roads and other infrastructure.

Such promises will be difficult to keep if slower growth, which usually translates into higher unemployment and lower corporate profits, leads to more meager tax receipts.

9:13am: Local shares are set to open weaker on a flat lead from Wall Street amid offsetting positive and negative corporate news and heightening tensions between Russia and Ukraine, with gold rallying.

Quotes Search

Fifth day in a row down after the highest point since the GFC. This market gets tired easily or as the latest unemployment figures show, that high was built on wishful thinking and not reality.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:16PM

story at 4.06 pm

you don't say!

Commenter

Xenaphon

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:13PM

That transurban thing going on in Melbourne is a joke. There couldn't be worse politicians in the world than ours.

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:39PM

Guess we ain't payin' 'em enough.

Commenter

Nobody

Location

Nowhere

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:48PM

Really? you think ours are that bad to say worst in the world? I dont think you really considered that, try looking at the millions coming out of china, the Priority Development Assistance fund scam in the Phillipines ($250 million in that one alone). Still not saying ours are great either.

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:51PM

Market heads up on bad news hoping for a rate cut. Yep. This economy's healthy.

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:37PM

It's all good.

Commenter

Nobody

Location

Nowhere

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:56PM

anyone have any idea of LMB?

Commenter

nax

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:28PM

Any idea when Sydney's house prices will come off the boil. Prices are astronomical lately, up 15% this year if you can believe it. I do, waiting for some pull back

Commenter

angry

Location

renter

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:27PM

Why is this a shock?? The signs are all there and for those who actually talk to people rather than just looking at numbers they will know.

Commenter

Ray

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:25PM

here it comes. the build up. Sellers not discounting enough to the sheepish but hungry buyers. small caps starting to bite

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:11PM

Is that it! Is that the big sell off! laughing my ass off here right now. This is a pathetic correction. If anything its added 4% to MTU for me.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:38PM

iTS A FACT THAT AUSSIE LABOUR IS TOO EXPENSIVE AND HENCE PEOPLE SHIFT THEIR MANUFACTURING OVERSEAS CAUSING JOB LOSSES. YOUR CHOICE MATES, PAY TE LABOUR LESS OR SEE THE UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURE RISE

Commenter

Homer

Location

Pymble, NSW

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:59PM

i said quiet! i enjoy these wages.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:24PM

Homer.You are correct that wages are high in Australia. However I always ask one question when anyone tells me this. Do you consider you are payed to much, are you an employee or employer and are you prepared to take a pay cut either as an employee or employer.

Told you so many times, labour here is too expensive. Cook on FIFO earns a few hundred grands, Janitor earning 6 digits. As teh results doing business here is costly and manufacturers shift overseas. Once they do that they will never return to Australia in teh short run and that means more job loss. Your choice mate. Pay the labour less to compete with teh rest of the world or let the jobless trend continue.

Commenter

Homer

Location

Pymble, NSW

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:56PM

quiet, i enjoy these wages.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:05PM

Buh.......what about the principle of paying peanuts and getting monkeys? Always cited by the geniuses at the top. Especially at the top of corporate government and financial services.

Commenter

Nobody

Location

Nowhere

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:52PM

There is actually a way to accurately gauge the level of employment to complement and test the ABS employment figures against. Every week, fortnight, month and quarter employers pay the PAYG tax collected from their e/ee's wages to the ATO via BAS. That's cash, no estimates, no guesses, no misunderstood questions. If the cash collected is rising, after adjustments for changes to tax rates, inflation, holiday periods, then employment is improving. If not then the reverse is true. Alongside those numbers would be the applications for Newstart from Centrelink. The ABS method is haphazard and will only get worse as Budget cuts hamper its data collection methods. Follow the money, each time, every time. Cash does not lie and is not affected by political spin.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:47PM

All of these PAYG payments are made via the banking system to nominated bank accounts for the ATO. The chances are that the banks are monitoring these payments and can work out for themselves what is happening with employment. Early information on how to play the markets.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:10PM

@mitch, i like the thought about getting solid numbers but a few gaps in your idea i see.1 million dollars paid in PAYG, was it for two people earning alot or 1000 earning very little? Also it will count a lot of people as unemployed because they work cash in hand.

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:15PM

@Wwwish an average would have to be worked out, so much in PAYG = so many e/ees. Consistently applied it would give a good idea as to e/ee numbers. People working cash in hand won't tell anyone that they are employed so they won't affect the outcome now or with a different basis of measurement.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:23PM

Some have been calling for a cut in the annual migrant quota for a while and have been labelled racist. Yet here you have it, Australia's migration intake since 2011 has been so high that there's no net job growth! A cut of the absurdly high annual quota is well overdue.

Commenter

Josh

Location

Perth

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:38PM

The point isn't whether they work or not, it's whether or not they're right

Commenter

Don Polski

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:19PM

Wow! According to this thread, the End is Nigh, because the market has dropped. Gone are the Masters of the Universe to be replaced by Prophets of Doom in just a few days. Investors in the Aust share market are no more than sheep, waiting for a sign from everyone else that it's ok to buy again. So someone (with more money than me) buy something, so we can all get back to business!

Commenter

Bazwat

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:18PM

I see 1st hand the continual off-shoring of jobs for profit and the importing of cheap Chinese materials for even cheaper, poorly constructed housing / units within Australia. You still pay top dollar though... basket case country coming right up!

Commenter

Liberator

Location

SEQLD

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:54PM

Why is no-one linking Jobs lost to the future of house prices? Really hard to fund your 500k mortgage without a salary each month, unemployment was always going to be the first test of whether there is a bubble or not.Allan - surely must have a view??

Commenter

Greg

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:47PM

Sshh you'll upset the banks and the knock on will start,hide.

Commenter

Bearshapedbull

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:53PM

All the favourite stocks are fully valued that is why, will have to sort out a few hopefuls from the leftovers to make any capital gains, but good luck with that!

Commenter

frozen

Location

with fear

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:46PM

Now here's a way to give our economy a boost that's more than a little out of left-field. Gaza has just been devastated by nearly a month of war. Thousands of houses and buildings have been destroyed. They will be crying out for building materials and builders. Australia could step into the breach and ship thousands of tonnes of locally produced building materials and employ our builders on reverse 457s to aid in the reconstruction effort. Foreign aid money would be spent here in Australia giving our own economy a boost and be of benefit elsewhere as well. Look at the boost rebuilding Christchurch gave to the NZ economy.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:44PM

no Mitch. Australia will not be supplying building materials to Gaza. Are you crazy!

Commenter

Dave

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:59PM

@mitch - I'm sure you're a well-meaning gentleman, but those kinds of ideas don't work, it would be a huge waste. Here's three reasons why that I can think of straight away.

1. Australian construction is already booming. Material and builders are already in short supply. Do you then want to increase demand even more and thus drive up inflation in this field? That would further add to cost of construction in this country. If anything we need to deflate the construction boom here.

2. There's a reason that buildings are not manufactured in China and exported around the world already today. That is that building work is best done locally to fit with local tastes, materials and sensibilities. To build components here and ship to the other side of the world would just go wrong at every single point ...

3. There's a moral reason here. Should we be paying the Israelis for bombing the Gaza into the stone-age? I think not.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:10PM

Well said Mitch, if only we could help them!

Commenter

AR

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:17PM

That's the trouble with Australians. No imagination. Let one opportunity slip by after the other.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:20PM

There's one reason why this would not be viable: the cost of insurance. Who would insure all these workers and who would be willing to carry the can if an employee died on the job. Only shonky fly by nighters would be willing to give it a go and it would all end in tears. Bit like our pink batt scheme, only worse...

Commenter

doglover

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:49PM

After the 2004 tsunami Australian aid programs were heavily involved in rebuilding parts of Asia affected. That experience would come in useful in helping to rebuild Gaza. All of the minor problems you have mentioned have a solution. What is missing is the will to seize a golden opportunity. Perhaps the Chinese or Russians will do it and entrench their influence in the Arab world. China &/or Russia influencing Arab policy makers, perhaps with regard to who gets oil and who doesn't.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:06PM

The u/e stats are a product of a small sample size and poor questions. Expect a bounce witnin the next few months.

Commenter

Wally

Location

Flynn

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:37PM

last two days flat as a pancake. is all the end of the world, bag your favorite political party stuff required?

Commenter

just

Location

sayin

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:27PM

All the favourite stocks are fully valued that is why, will have to sort out a few hopefuls from the leftovers to make any capital gains, but good luck with that!

Commenter

frozen

Location

with fear

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:49PM

fully valued or fairly valued? I mean fully valued stocks have come off the boil last few days. fairly valued stocks have been chugging along like they always do. timing the market is a mugs game!

Commenter

mugs

Location

away!

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:20PM

Of course it is in the best interest of politicians to keep housing prices high. After all it's about lining their own pockets and they don't give a rats arse about the average Australian. It is not only negative gearing but they are turning a blind eye to the mass amount of foreign buyers. There needs to be an investigation in to foregin ownership of property in this country as it is clearly obvious that we slowing being bought out. The FIRB is a joke in my opinion and is not enforcing the rules that deny the purchase of existing dwellings.

Commenter

JB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:25PM

+1

Commenter

Bot

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:47PM

I said early this year that we'd get a good understanding by the last quarter we're this increasingly feeble Ponzi nothing economy was going. I expected that the wheels would start slipping noticeably by the last half. The weakening wage growth of the last couple of years suggested growing weakness. People are not going to be happy, especially as a growing flood of 457s and others taking jobs in this weakening job market. Tony and Joes idea is to redirect welfare into supporting the Ponzi. Very stupid Joe, undermining the country's health to prolong the life of this beast. The sooner it dies, the better.

Commenter

Catch 22

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:55PM

Bear Shaped Bull

Need to subject head the post so to avoid usual garbage.

CCL moving ahead of 20/08 results

Commenter

Harry Rogers

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:10PM

couldn't hurt waiting to see how they fair come next profit announcement. still alot of restructuring going on.

Commenter

..

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:54PM

Alot of consolidation to come but with a market shift away from sugary hits the ability to track and change with trending seems a challenge to meet, enough cash to t/o or stifle competition. Can the global player step up to the plate? Im a bit shy of consumer goods and retail this year. SUP failed,CCL re invention needef.

Commenter

Bearshapedbull

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:23PM

All true however my thinking is that all those drinks are pretty much the same when people started paying for bottled water I realised you can sell them anything if its got a nice label and makes them feel part of their peer group. (viz phones)

Distribution network is the most valuable part of selling tangibles particularly ones that have a health factor and use by date.

Another point is that in Australia funds have to diversify and there is very little choice.

All just opinion of course and if they get to $10 I'll sell

Commenter

Harry Rogers

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:13PM

Lovely to see Rupert come a gutzer.Should be more of it.

Commenter

Red Rooster

Location

Surgical Ward

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:00PM

36000 SXY @ $0.635

Commenter

clive

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:47PM

@ Clive Well done with SXY. I see what you've done. Dbl bottom and interesting chart. Courageous effort, and I'm hoping for you it doesn't go to 0.60 before rebounding. I'll be watching with interest and may have a go myself.

Commenter

Forry

Location

all the best

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:43PM

Well done Tony. Now you are clearly the most economically destructive PM in 12 years. Howard damaged the culture with division and middle class welfare/entitlement...but you take it one step further into real damage to the actual economy. Where's the upside? I should take that job in the US

Commenter

Elric

Location

Melnibone

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:33PM

Well said comrade. Now off to the US for you.

Commenter

ALP

Location

Headquarters

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:42PM

Elric,

We are in the mess we are in due to Howard/Costello stupid middle class welfare and economic vandalism by Rudd et al. For sure, Abbott/Hockey won't be well regarded in the pages of history but to blame them for situation we are in is a bit harsh.

Commenter

Ox

Location

Kensi Pk

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:43PM

Must admit not looking good for TA

Commenter

colin

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:48PM

What would be good policy? Continue to borrow money and throw at the economy to try to keep (artificial) growth on track? That would indeed take us to where the US is now, i.e. near bankruptcy.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:09PM

Actually, Elric, if you were able to read then you'd see that the rorting of the visa system, where hundreds of thousands of jobs were taken those who cheated the migration system, was actually the fault of the Labor government's lack of oversight and their incompetence. Mind you it might also have been Labor putting their electoral prospects ahead of what was good for the country.

Because Abbott and Morrison aren't able to instantly wave a magic wand and fix Labor's mess, you choose to blame them, rather than the real culprits.

Commenter

JohnB

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:10PM

Tony would say he's fixing the damage caused by Labor. But to fix a hole in the roof you don't normally knock down a wall.

We shouldn't blame Abbott and Hockey for actually cleaning up this mess.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:26PM

Tony is trying to clean up a mess agreed. His tactics in doing so are absurd. Decimating industries (clean power and cars), a budget that is ideological zealotry instead of helpful that scared 99% of the population, billions in planes and PPL. I can blame him for the current mess; it is more fair than the budget implications of the GFC and it's aftermath were blamed on Rudd.

Commenter

Elric

Location

Melnibone

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:49PM

@DR No, neither Howard's welfare bonanza nor Rudd's stimulus policies have contributed to the increasing unemployment rate. In fact both sets of polices would have created jobs by increasing the spending power of consumers. The current jobs deficit is due to a whole range of factors including the winding down of the construction phase of mining, the high $A shifting jobs offshore and the current govt's reluctance to actually assist with the creation of new jobs. Winding back the green energy program hasn't helped. Telling car manufacturers to get lost hasn't helped. Threatening big cuts to consumers spending power hasn't helped.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:14PM

ElricHockey's budget says GDP growth will slow to 2.5 per cent after doing 2.75 this year.The latest couple of months of labour market statistics show an unemployment rate that has gone from 5.8 per cent to 6.4. Hockey's budget said it would rise to only 6.25 per cent and stay there.The figures don't match the "growth" and "build" spin of Budget night's rhetoric.Where is the growth & build coming from?

Commenter

Econorat

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:39PM

Most world economies in damage control we just join the que any tricks left in the bsg? Print your way outta here.

Commenter

Bearshapedbull

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:40PM

@mitch - can't you see that it's the over-heated economy that has caused the price rises which have made so much of our manufacturing industry uncompetitive? It's the lack of workers, lack of skills, and the salary rises that follow, which has put us in this situation. The main culprit is of course a huge mining boom for the last 8 years, but politicians have made it worse by increasing welfare and quite unbelievably borrowed to spend even more in this economy.

We need to take the heat off this economy, we need to have the recession we had to have.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:53PM

Go JohnB, couldn't have said it better myself.

Commenter

Concerned Australian

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:55PM

JohnBMy recollection is that Labor tried to wind back the 457 Visa system because of rorting but the LNP and big business screamed Blue Murder at the thought.

"Labor's assertion that the 457 visa scheme is not working in Australia's best interests is on the money.The system is too deregulated: there is no mechanism for ensuring there is a skill shortage for the jobs in which employers are using 457 visas. This means that dodgy employers can use 457 visas in areas where unemployed Australians could fairly easily be trained to do the job"

Dr No.the economy is far from overheated. if it was the interest rates would have gone up. and why is unemployment rising in an overheated economy???

Commenter

Econorat

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:30PM

@econorat - I was referring to the last 8 years largely having been overheated. Thanks god the mining boom is now slowly levelling off and we've got a gov't that aims to take us back to a balanced budget and paying back debt thus taking some of that heat out of the economy.

What we've seen is that the mining boom has pushed the rest of the export industry into recession by taking workers, inflating salaries, over-valued our currency, and pushing up the cost of living across the board. Politicians have made this worse by adding spending in the economy rather than removing spending to ease the pain.

10 years ago we should have created one mighty sovereign fund to remove money out of the domestic market and investing abroad. Then we might still have had a car industry for example.

The rise of our dollar has very little to do with politicians and everything to do with our perceived economic stability compared to the rest of the world, our mineral prices, our relatively higher interest rates and our government's AAA rating.

How can a politician do anything about that?????

Forget it, our dollar is what it is.

Commenter

Econorat

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 4:57PM

I would assume anyone in the 45% tax bracket would be a property owner.

Share margin loans would be too risky to commit 7-8 figures to make it work. Property is safe and generally moves up (in Australia)

No real surprise that politicians own multiple properties on their pay level. Are you guys shocked?

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:23PM

Kick senator Barry O'sullivan out at the next election. Sorry Canberra’s biggest property owner, no other option for me.

Commenter

ps

Location

syd

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:44PM

Presumably Jan du Plessis of RIO was full-time incumbent when RIO purchased Riversdale for $3.9 Billion and recently sold it for $50 Million. SO does his new extra gig at SABMiller become a positive for RIO as he becomes less involved in RIO?

Commenter

mike

Location

ormond

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:15PM

even with the government fudging the actual job figures beyond belief the truth is getting out. the poo is starting to hit the fan. anyone with any grasp of reality knows the actual figure is way closer to 20%. and the usa is recovering. sure it is. just ask an economist.

Commenter

smilingjack

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:05PM

This jobless rate is according to John Howards con job where anyone working 1 hr a week was fully employed. Your figure of 20% is more near to reality. Jobless should be difined by total number of people looking for jobs.

Commenter

xyz

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:15PM

John Williams @ showstats calculates US unemployment 20-25%.

The U-6 (an official measure), that even the Fed officials have said is a better measure than the U-3, says US unemployment is about 12.5%, not withstanding a terrible participation rate.....

Commenter

Bye Bye Fiat Money

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:20PM

Where are all the BSD's sprouting about buying calls yesterday? How's that 5500 support level working out for you?

And spare me the "I've never met a rich technician" argument.

Commenter

50BahtLeo

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:57AM

Sydney's house prices have increased 14% year on year according to RP data.

Housing Boom!

Commenter

angry

Location

renter

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:51AM

@11:13am: Australia’s political elite are among the country’s most enthusiastic real estate investors

That is reason why pollies will never take correct action to fix the budget by fixing negative gearing and SMSF rorting. They will just tinker on edges by making pensioners suffer and come up with a stupid policy of medical copayment. JH will just try to act tough and smart and will never take a proper corrective action to fix the budget and keep on blaming others to not cooperate to pass his unacceptable budget.

Commenter

xyz

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:49AM

Doe this report differentiate between actual residential and business real estate. As usual the headline is misleading. It doesn't take much to see that Barry O'Sullivan has a number of diverse business interests and agricultural investments. So I expect a large portion of his 50 properties are actual business related and not "rental properties". How are the authors allowed to get away with such misrepresentation????

Commenter

bunyip

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:35PM

Remember this is probably just the number of properties in their name. Imagine the number of properties they have in family trusts, business names, etc.

Mitch from the ACT. All of Australia if they wanted to listen 18 months ago were told that the jobless rate would get to 6.5%. This was BEFORE Tony Abbott was invented.

Commenter

Goldfinger

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:16PM

Things will get worse with irresponsible 457 visas. Real unemployment rate is much higher and prospects of unemployed getting jobs in near future are dim. You can only play with interest rates to an extent and further reduction from here may not be of much help.

Commenter

xyz

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:30PM

@GoldfingerIt is irrelevat wheteher TA was invented or not. The problem of unemployed needs to be addressed and who ever is power has to deal with it.- reduce immigartion levels-- stop 457 visas- JH budget is a joke- stop contractiing economy-Free trade with China must be postponed as they want to bring in their own people to work her--etc

Commenter

xyz

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:37PM

But the economy is not contracting.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:10PM

Still only 97k holders of 457 visas in Australia. Such a tiny number.

Commenter

Irish Phil

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:11PM

xyz Mitch I thought you could do better than that.

Commenter

Goldfinger

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:24PM

@Irish Phil...hmmmn, 'Irish Phil' doesn't sound too Australian...

Anyhow, I don't know the number of holders of 457's at the moment but it seems we are expecting a flow of about 48,000 (employer sponsored) this financial year. That is roughly a quarter of our total immigration intake and I believe there is talk that 457's are used as a means to then move on to other visas - PR for example. To the extent that those with bogus skills are able to upgrade their visa status that might actually be a fairly significant issue.

@Zeus: I came to Australia on a 417 visa, moved to 457, then to PR, and am now a citizen. I believe all non-aboriginals emigrated here at some stage, so I don't get the 'time to close the gates' mentality. Diversity and new ideas from those emigrating here have enriched Australia. I see it in my workplace all the time with new hires from overseas.There are currently 97k people on 457 visas, you can find the number yourself on the web.

Commenter

Irish Phil

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 3:49PM

The sooner ASX companies report and announce their divs the better.

So sick of relying on geopolitical "news" & bi-polar US traders deciding our fate each day.

Bring on next week!

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:46AM

Couldn't agree more. So far this week down Mon, Tues Wed Thurs. Dow up two of the three days. The ASX has been the market that's gone nowhere for five years and it's still going down. Here excuses from all over the place each day, today for example Jobs, however we've known this was going to happen now for almost two years. Good news and the ASX does nothing and bad news falls like a stone. So bring on reporting and bring on the facts./

Commenter

Peter

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:31PM

So with 94% of politicians also landlords, who in their right mind can ever see the tax lurks associated with negative gearing getting the axe. As well as this, which of these parasites would like to see affordable housing? Greedy hounds the lot of them

Commenter

Derf

Location

Latham

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:34AM

lmao! who ever thought tax breaks would be removed. silly renters.

Commenter

greedy

Location

landlord

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:38AM

my only consolation derf is at these intr. rates the write offs are pitiful and self extinguishing sooner.

Commenter

vested

Location

interest

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:40AM

No offense, but you only just figured that out??? Both parties are terrible, but most people wont realise till it's too late. This country is going to go thru the meat grinder over the next 5 years

Commenter

Bye Bye Fiat Money

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:49AM

To be fair, the article says 6% "own no real estate", which I took to mean they actually rent, and at least a few others only own their own home.

But most of those would have family, friends and (perhaps most importantly) party donors who are deeply interested in propping up house prices at all costs...

Commenter

Phil

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:11PM

The 6% that don't own property will merely have it in their wife's name. If you took all property owned by State and Federal MPs, their wives, children, SMSFs and their family trusts and enumerated that it would horrify the general public. We aren't that different to China.

Commenter

Elric

Location

Melnibone

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:24PM

italy in recession. economists had no idea. thats right. economists have no idea on anything.

Commenter

smilingjack

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:32AM

Economists make their judgements using historical stats post ipso facto. They look for trends but usually are reticent to make non main stream predictions. They are mired in the past. Worse still they adhere to neo-classical theory

Commenter

Wally

Location

Flynn

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:49AM

To be fair to some economists, some of them warned the politicians about the dangers of the Euro currency and pointing to the economic constraints of an optimal currency area. Those economists were, however, over-rules by politicians with utopian dreams. Culture trumps economics always.

However, economists seldom take the wider issues into account. Demography, ethic make-up of population/work-force, etc. To economists every human being is an Economic Man, but the rules of biology tells us this isn't so.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:55AM

Print Draghi, Print!

Commenter

MrSteve

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:31PM

AGL (AGK) got approved for the CSG fracking of 4 new wells which could provide NSW up to 20% of its needs and it goes down today!

You're meant to be my defensive!!

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:23AM

"Delivering coal power to the rural poor would require them to pay prices they simply couldn’t afford.

Adani, the developers of the Carmichael deposit, need a wholesale power price of around Rs5-6/kWh to break even in Australia before funding and then make money in the downstream Indian power generation. This is double the current wholesale power price in India of Rs3/kWh.

But Adani also needs to also make a return on proposed $10 billion investment in Australia. To do that, it needs an energy adjusted thermal coal price of US$100/t fob (free on board). The current price is around $US70/tonne.

At a price of US$100/t Adani would need an electricity price of over Rs7/kWh back in India. But in India, a solar plant to deliver power in can be built for Rs5.50/kWh today – with zero inflation or currency risk for the next 25 years.

Or Adani could build wind or hydro at Rs4.60/kWh or US$75/MWh. “Why would Adani bother with imported coal?” Buckley asks. “No nationalistic agenda is appeased by locking in imported inflation at such a high cost.”

Commenter

Fred

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:18AM

So is there anything that can turn the ASX around independently of the US? Should we all just go to the pub today and start again tomorrow?

Commenter

Bazwat

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:10AM

Yeah get the ALP to stop playing politics with our investments!

Commenter

realist

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:38AM

Yep, pub sounds good, preferably one with a TAB. We'd stand a better chance having a punt on the gallops!

Commenter

Human Trader

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:57AM

hahaha from "Markets Live: Shares UP ahead of jobs" to "Markets Live: Shares DROP ahead of jobs" in about 10 minutes!

not an easy job trying to predict the markets.lol.

Ed: not trying to predict, no banks, just report! That's hard enough!

Commenter

no banks .. no party!

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:09AM

Is there any Motely Fool subscribers on here that can tell me what the $400k bet is on? Would be interested to know. Thank you.

Commenter

Need to Know!

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:58AM

also can you add to shorts if price is above contract price?

Commenter

Need to Know!

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:19AM

For what its worth, after being poleaxed by an insto dumping at any price MML finally is regaining some buying support with equal number buyers and seller, a far cry the other day when total number of share on the buy side was 136k.I take comfort when an insto sells invariably that is the time to buy.

Commenter

Ox

Location

Kensi Pk

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:46AM

MTU anyone? is that a break above, or did someone put out a buy recommendation. Quite a rise in past few days, overbought?

Commenter

jacey

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:38AM

pulling back if you want to jump aboard?

Commenter

MTU

Location

CEO

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:06PM

"Shares opened higher" monitor upside down?

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

MugPunters Lounge

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:32AM

A big thank you to whoever sold me those ANZ puts this morning. The chart looks absolutely terrible. Next stop - 32.40

Commenter

50BahtLeo

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:29AM

I bought yesterday expecting a bounce in the next week. Picked up some more today! Too many down days, a bounce is coming!

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:08AM

I wonder what is coming, but agreed the charts do look to have a lot of bearish potential (and little bullish potential), but still, care is warranted, they could easily just pop higher... Markets and irrationality :(

Commenter

Bye Bye Fiat Money

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:17AM

if you use charts, someone will be thanking you too soon ;-}

Commenter

no banks .. no party!

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:20AM

What sanctions? EU still feeding of Russian gas, France still planning to export 3 Aircraft carriers to Russia.

Commenter

DJ77

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:28AM

I am perplexed, With some sort of invasion of Ua really on the cards and sanctions really biting big name De firms, and their share prices dropping as much as 3 per cent overnight, surely it is a time to pull outta hereI sold all my holdings of banks yesterday, holdings I had held over 12 months, just accumulatingIt pained me to do so as they were 2 dollars off highsSit and wait,it could all head south so fast, we are in Putins capable hands

Commenter

stu

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:17AM

Wars are good for business. It doesn't seem to matter how broke govt's are, as soon as war clouds gather they start spending money faster than a politician going through a travel allowance. That cash washes through the economy leaving little bits everywhere. All is well provided it's not your territory being fought over.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:00AM

@mitchAgreed. The disgraceful part is the loss of life.Further I liked all the pre and few month post election rhetoric about budgets... To hell with it, inflate away Tony!!!

Commenter

Bye Bye Fiat Money

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:09AM

MitchIf you build tanks in St Pete Ru or are Lockheed sureTake a look , at DAX this situation will benefit nobodyIf Putin goes into Ua the Pl andCzwill feel threatened and rightly soThere would be 1000 business,s lose to every gainSold all Anz at 32.90 yesterday, could go in again today but only fools will buy until thisis resolved

Commenter

stu

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:25AM

Rally for Goldies in store..might make up some lost ground at least.

Commenter

BearShapedBull

Location

MugPunters Lounge

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:11AM

Finally, some green next to BDR. About time. NST also looking better today

Commenter

doglover

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:25AM

Even my MML look better. Still need 20c to break even. Need gold to pierce $1315 on technicals. Every thing I read suggests gold is undervalued.

Commenter

Ox

Location

Kensi Pk

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:39AM

I have said it before - BRD is still a sell, there are a few goldies that are trending higher (note "FEW") but if you don't want to punt then stay in cash and buy in cheaper in 6 months (Especially after the full year accounts).

2c on the fire

Commenter

Bye Bye Fiat Money

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:14AM

IPHONE 6Just read a preview of the iPhone 6 in the SMH today. Why isn't Java on smart phones or tablets? I can't run full dynamic Iress on my iPhone or iPad. Java is needed to run Iress for share trading. We are stuck in front of a desktop computer until Java is permitted on phones and tablets. Does anybody here have a phone or tablet with Java enabled or a work around? I would be interested to hear about it. Thanks.

Commenter

It's All About Making Money

Location

Lennox Head

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:07AM

viruses

Commenter

Java

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:18AM

Have you tried to use Cloud Browse app on the iPhone?

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:19AM

Actually Android is a flavour of Java. Android is the underlying operating system in most non-IPhone devices (e.g. Samsung, HTC). Versions of IRESS specific for Android and IOS (for Iphone and Ipad) have to be developed separately.

Commenter

CafeBlanco

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:30AM

Thanks for your suggestions and replies. With IOS the operator has to authorize any program so viruses are not common. Many traders already successfully use Java with Iress and limit viruses.Cloud browser gets a 1.5 star user rating and only works for 10mins at a time with usability issues as well. Does somebody then have your access details, as it is 3rd party? Yieks scary.I have tried running Iress on a Samsung phone and it also didn’t work. The Java website says mobiles and tablets and MS Surface don’t run Java. Still perplexed and stuck in the office.

Commenter

It's All About Making Money

Location

Lennox Hd

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 12:26PM

I don't know the "technical" but I'm pretty sure you can use Microsoft Remote Desktop from your phone to operate a "Desktop" that's screen-locked.

I remember people doing this years ago (00's) on oldschool phones. Ask some gurus on Whirlpool forums for technical setup.

Commenter

GS

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 1:40PM

@GS - Thanks i think that will work. I now just have to decide which remote desktop to use on my phone. Great!

Commenter

It's All About Making Money

Location

Lennox Head

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 2:35PM

Who is ready for the S&P500 to test 1900?

Don't worry about the ASX, it will just copy the US markets.

Commenter

Daxman

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:55AM

Does RIO report @ 5pm? Sorry about the ignorance. Long term viewer first time poster.

TAH result seemed ok.

Ed: Hi Magical1, around 4pm I'm told. Chrs

Commenter

Magical1

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:54AM

"There's such strong growth in the population at the moment that the jobs that are being created just aren't enough to soak up the number of people who are joining the workforce."

Migration increases the demand for the supply of goods and services and thus creates new jobs to absorb the influx of people, most of whom are of working age. That's why full employment was the norm during the peak migration years of the 50's & 60's. However now jobs are being exported at a fast pace and the gov't seems reluctant to assist in the creation of new jobs, content to watch a rising pool of unemployed drive wages and conditions down so as to reduce business costs. The problem with that is that lower wages reduce business turnover & profits. A self-defeating exercise.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:05AM

It depends if you use a general equilibrium model (MONASHModel) as part of the evaluation.....oh this is just rant, sorry....

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:09AM

The purpose of mass-immigration into Western - and only Western - countries is not to achieve economic growth. All the economic, humanitarian, moral, etc. reasons that are constantly used as justification for the great population replacement project.

Nobody demands that Japan, South Korea, Qatar, Israel, Nigeria, etc. embark on similar projects, but if ones single Western country was to divert from the plan that country would be ostracised.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:17AM

There is zero reason Fred other than adding per capita to big business and undermining wages. Migration is a disaster for Australians. We won't work that out until it's way too late. .

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:26AM

@dr no. That doesn't account for our government over achieving at 500k in 13 months. Nor does it make any sense when we consider global population growth is 90 million a year.

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:00AM

@JohnBB - think independently. What do you think the ultimate aim of Western migration policies are?

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:26AM

go on, I'm curious. What is

>the great population replacement project

...?

Commenter

Green Sheep

Location

Cheshire

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:33AM

@johnBB - for example, why do you think that the UN demands that the little Baltic country of Estonia should take non-European refugees, but the UN has never demanded that the much wealthier countries like Japan, Qatar and Israel do it. What do you think the ultimate aim of the UN is?

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:35AM

@JohnBB..Migration is a disaster for Australians (except when us white people came, that was ok)

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:36AM

@Green Sheep...shhhhhh they are listening

Commenter

Wwwish Lion

Location

Melbourne

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:45AM

@dr no. The UN have no idea what they're doing. Don't give them that much credit.

A lackluster performance on the US last night, yet another failed rally. Probably good for a 40 point pop as the 'Bargain Hunters' headline is wheeled out.

Commenter

50BahtLeo

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:42AM

The so called "Bargain Hunters" are usually the cannon fodder for the big market players as they dive in just as the market dips below record highs quoting Warren Buffet out of context, "Be greedy when other are fearful"

Commenter

MTD

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:55AM

See the Ferrari lady sewing. Australians dont need to do any such menial tasks we're a smart economy. Or rather, we're going to become one after we've spent every last cent our ancestors saved, and conned all future earnings out of our young, and sold every single thing foreigners want to buy. After we can borrow no more. Dont panic, we're in good hands right across the parliament.

I don't think you need to be that smart to dig deep holes and send the rocks extracted therefrom to China. In fact, it sounds pretty stupid as the basis of a so-called first world economy.

Commenter

Groundswell77

Location

GC

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:58AM

You mean we can't make Ferrari cars, don't you? That photo of the employee sewing leather is magnificent as it shows industry at work. Oh, as well, there's Lamborghini, Masarati, Ducatti, and Bugatti, and my favourite pasta...Barilla to boot. All of them...MADE IN ITALY. GG.

Commenter

Gordon Gekko

Location

Greg Coffey World

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:07AM

..don't forget: we've increased our immigration intake to record levels, meaning that employers can give up hiring our young people, and our 'old' people (anyone over the age of 40), we've expanded our cities to unsustainable levels...we can't afford what we've go already, who needs the population Ponzi scheme???

Commenter

jacey

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:10AM

"dont have to be that smart to dig holes"I work in this industry, and it's obviously not as easy as you say. I agree with JohnBB, but Australia leads the world "in digging holes", by the way having these highly skilled engineers will prove even more valuable when Australia makes the transition towards your happy hippy utopia of renewable energy.

Commenter

Happy

Location

Trader

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:11AM

Good reply Alex. It's clever for you to have thought things through. It's good you have contingencies and hedges. All clever investors do.

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:15AM

Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine on an otherwise gloomy day?

Commenter

doglover

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:16AM

@groundswell. Until they no longer need it ...or...get it where wages are a tenth ours. Heard of the mining investment cliff? If what you're saying is right and that's our future. Why populate? Whatever way it's looked at we're doing it wrong for the future.

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:19AM

9.25 Italian economy shrinking

With total fertility rates - i.e. the expected number of children born per woman - in Italy being 1.42, Italy will never return to prolonged economic growth. In fact, contraction is the natural state of being for an economy where fewer and fewer workers enter the workforce every year. Add to that the additional welfare costs of an aging population and you've got societal decline.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:38AM

@ Dr No, I think "fewer Italian workers" might be more accurate than "fewer workers". As we speak there are probably several thousand Africans sailing across the Med towards Italy.

Commenter

Fred

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:00AM

With all due respect to those that try to enter in rickety boats across the sea to Italy, but they don't have the education or capability to positively contribute to the Italian economy. Not in a globalised world where most worker-intensive manufacturing can be off-shored to Asia.

Commenter

Dr No

Location

Sydney

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:20AM

I agree

Commenter

Fred

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:28AM

Can anybody name a single occasion when economic sanctions have achieved anything?

The current sanctions on Russia, and the retaliations (e.g. bans on agricultural imports from Australia) will achieve nothing at all except disrupt global economic growth.

Commenter

Fred

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:19AM

They often achieve a slow down in the violence associated with the sanction action. Although your little ASX investments might take a dent, it saves the lives of humans in conflicts zones. I know what I'd prefer...

Commenter

DR

Location

syd

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:40AM

apartheid was disabled?? but the sanctions were way past economic sanctions.your point stands . the professional russian wont be budged by this

Commenter

vested

Location

interest

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:47AM

Have you forgotten about the sanctions, political, sporting and economic, that brought about the end of the Apartheid regime in South Africa,I'm sure that when the Russian oligarchs lose their $billions of wealth in the West they'll wish they hadn't supported their would-be Tsar. All it takes is oligarchs conspiring with a Russian general or two & Putin is gone.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:48AM

Sanctions were effective in ending apartheid in south Africa.

Commenter

JohnBB

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:50AM

1. South Africa2. Libya3. Rhodesia

Want more?

Commenter

groundswell77

Location

GC

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:51AM

BurmaSudan

And yes, sanctions will ultimately work in Cuba and North Korea once the juntas in those countries are dispensed with.

Commenter

Groundswell77

Location

GC

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:56AM

Hippies in the West tell themselves that boycotts of South Africa ended apartheid to make them feel like their protests achieved something.

In reality it was the internal opposition from the majority of the South African people, both armed and peaceful, over many decades.

Commenter

Fred

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 9:57AM

You are all deluded if you think that apartheid ended in South Africa because of sanctions. One of the things that South Africa excelled at was sanction busting. How else do you think all the gold, diamonds and platinum all still found their way onto the international market? The sanctions were all just a marketing exercise by powerful countries, but the reality is that vested economic interests win every time.

Commenter

doglover

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:02AM

@ Groundswell -

Libya? I think you might mean NATO bombers rather than sanctions.

Rhodesia? I think you might mean the AK-47 rather than sanctions

South Africa? See above

Cuba and North Korea? Yes after 6 decades those sanctions have been very effective...

Commenter

Fred

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:03AM

If you know anything about IR you know that sanctions are just one of many things that force change. Without the sanctions would have SA changed - who knows! But it certainly didn't hurt as part of a number of factors that forced the change. Likewise, with Russia I think the message of sanctions is more powerful than the impact (which I agree will be zero).

Commenter

Groundswell77

Location

GC

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:07AM

Sanctions work. They just take longer than tanks, troops & bombs.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:16AM

Sanctions - See Iraq 1996, Madeline Albright (on 60 minutes) and her comments regarding 500,000 children that died due to "sanctions".

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story no?

Commenter

Bye Bye Fiat Money

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 10:27AM

@Bye bye, how many children died in Iraq 2 and continue to die from the strife of war right up to right now.

Commenter

mitch of ACT

Location

Date and time

August 07, 2014, 11:10AM

@mitchLots sadly. I'm not advocating war, but the sanctions clearly did not work.