Comments for Mormon History Guyhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com
Mormon History for the Masses Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:46:32 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.5Comment on Podcast #10: An Interview with Alex Beam, Author of American Crucifixion by Garrett Wesley Gibbonshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/06/13/podcast-10-interview-alex-beam-author-american-crucifixion/#comment-2769
Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:46:32 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1946#comment-2769This is a great interview! Wonderful conversation, thought-provoking content, and some great perspectives to consider.
]]>Comment on Podcast #11: Joseph Smith and Polygamy: An Interview with Brian Hales by Will Robertshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/07/16/podcast-11-joseph-smith-polygamy-interview-brian-hales/#comment-2735
Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:28:01 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1958#comment-2735“I argue that if Brigham Young, John Taylor, Zina Huntington, Emily Partridge, Eliza R. Snow – if any of these people who knew what was going on had thought that he was a hypocrite, they wouldn’t have stayed with him.”

Brian, you need to stop making this argument. Besides the fact that there were many who did think that JS was a hypocrite and left the church (think of William Law and those associated with him and the Nauvoo Expositor, for example), it is a well-established principle of psychology that when someone has a long-held belief that defines who they are, when they are presented with data that contradicts their belief, they will actually strengthen their belief in that thing. This is called the backfire effect.

It is *expected* that many people would still follow Joseph Smith, even though they were given evidence that he was a hypocrite. It would be strange from a scientific standpoint if they didn’t.

]]>Comment on Podcast #8: An Interview with Robert Millet by Greghttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/05/27/podcast-8-interview-robert-millet/#comment-1966
Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:25:56 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1933#comment-1966The fact that Robert Millet would express the thoughts and take the positions that he did in this interview, gives me hope that the Church is changing. Can’t wait to read the book.
]]>Comment on Podcast #8: An Interview with Robert Millet by Katherinehttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/05/27/podcast-8-interview-robert-millet/#comment-1927
Mon, 09 Jun 2014 03:43:37 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1933#comment-1927Awesome interview!

Understanding the Trinity feels like one of my weaker points and I feel it may really help me out one day to have a better understanding.

There are a million books on theology so what do you think is a good resource? I’m guessing there are different ways that different areas of Christianity understand that the Trinity concept as well?

]]>Comment on Podcast #8: An Interview with Robert Millet by Chad Hadlerhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/05/27/podcast-8-interview-robert-millet/#comment-1725
Wed, 28 May 2014 03:27:43 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1933#comment-1725Interesting comment from the Harvard theology professor who couldn’t take seriously our movement because we “disregard” 2000 years of Christianity.
]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by cindy mexicohttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-1127
Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:28:14 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-112717) And when a woman wishes to engage in the work of My Father which is in Heaven, in addition to that great work which the Mother has given unto her by virtue of her very creation, you, unto whom I have given My authority, may ordain her unto that stewardship that I shall provide for her. And she shall apply that great gift, which My Mother which is in Heaven has given her, to the ministering unto the people as
the man does. She shall also bend her own will and do whatsoever I shall command her. But remember, whereas the stewardship that I shall provide for every man is a necessary thing for most men, in order that they might overcome the natural man, that which has been provided women by the Mother does already accomplish this end for them. Wherefore, priesthood, though a woman may officiate in the sacraments and
in every holy ordinance, is not requisite for her salvation. Whereas, men must have this device in order to truly come unto me. And where the priesthood is not available for them, surely I shall provide another means whereby men may overcome that which prevents them from the Way.

18) And these are the sacraments which I command you to administer unto My children:

19) You shall bless your little ones, calling upon My name. For, in the day that I began the work of Atonement for them, they were given to Me by the Father and the Mother. Wherefore, ye are My children, notwithstanding, I am also My Father’s son.
Posted in Let’s Share Our Dreams and Visions | Leave a comment
Women’s Priesthood Daughters of Adam and Eve
Posted on April 18, 2014 by c j

For I Am the Lord;

Now, behold ye Nemenhah, the daughters of Adam are blessed from before the foundation of the world.
Behold, My daughters, by the nature of your creation, ye do serve all people. Yea, it is good that ye do organize yourselves in all your good and that ye do uphold this nation as ye presently do. But behold the orders of the priesthood are for the sons of Adam, to be an instrument unto them that they may train their natures to be more like unto the daughters of Eve.

Yea, that by the sweat of their face, even by their strength, they might learn to give of themselves for the sake of others. For how shall they become like Me if they do not that which I have done? But, ye Daughters of Eve, ye do it already.

Wherefore, covet not that which I have given unto men, but rejoice and know that ye may seek My face without other preparation than that which ye have received by your nature. For ye receive of the Mother even a more complete priesthood than the orders of the priesthood that I give unto men, in order that they may prove themselves thereby.
Posted in Let’s Share Our Dreams and Visions | Leave a comment
Nemenhah Temple Endowment; Covenant of Elohim

]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by cindy mexicohttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-1126
Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:27:08 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-11266) Samuel, you who have been my mouthpiece in times past, be so now even unto this people. And take twelve of your people, of both men and women, and behold, I shall touch them and place upon them the priesthood. And they shall listen to My words and take them to the people. For the multitude gathered is great and My voice shall reach them all through Myanointed ones. And all those who are of the Nemenhah of Corianton who are not present must also hear My words. Wherefore, these whom you appoint and upon whom I lay this great charge, shall take other twelve from each city and region, to begin
the spreading of My gospel to all the people.

7) Then, when all the people have received of My word, let them all strive to obtain for themselves the anointing. And if they do this with singleness of heart, seeking My face, behold, I shall manifest Myself unto them upon the Way. For I am the Way, the Truth and the Light. If anyone seeks Me in this spirit, they shall find Me.

8) And I did all that the Lord commanded me, choosing out six men and six women who were known to me to be upright people with good intentions. And He took them one by one and touched them and called them to be His servants. And these are the words He used:

9) Upon you, my servant, I lay a certain charge and commission. And I give you authority to act in all things that the Spirit does manifest that I would do were I present to do them. Wherefore, be diligent in study, and also in fasting and in prayer. In this shall you know My doctrine. Yea, in this shall you know of Me, through the whisperings of the Spirit, that which isMy will and that which is not. And I give unto you power to command the elements as often as the Spirit dictates. Wherefore, pray always that you be not deceived and carried away in pride.

10) Then, casting His eyes about, He taught us concerning this priesthood, saying:
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11) Behold, I do perceive your thoughts. Marvel not that I have given mine authority to women and men alike. Yea, this thing has been of concern to some since the day that Pa-Sabel received word from Me of the ordinance she should perform when I came. Behold, I do confer the priesthood upon those men who
would follow Me and do the things they see Me do. And unto such is made an ordination, that they may speak and act in My name, and be justified in so doing. But I do not confer such upon the women, for they have of My Mother in Heaven that which I cannot give. Wherefore, I do ordain them. But the priesthood they have already cannot be given, nor taken away, but by that person who gave it. Wherefore, if there be any woman who desires to follow Me and do the thingsthey see Me do, they are authorized from the foundation of the world, and I do justify them.

12) For, the daughters of Eve do sacrifice of themselves freely for the sake of all living. For this cause did Adam call her name Eve. For she is the Mother of all Living. She does give of herself, even to the laying down of her life, in order that man might be, and in order that the purposes of heaven may go forward. She is a Priestess and Queen unto the Most High God forever.

13) Wherefore, if by the Spirit she is moved upon to take up emblems of My life and death, and bless them, and administer them to the people, what is that to you? She does it unto Me. Wherefore, restrain her not at all.

14) But behold, men received not such power by their creation and come into the world without the natural inclination to do good. Wherefore have I said, the natural man is an enemy to God. By the sweat of his face shall Adam earn his bread all the days of his life. And through constancy in service and in sacrifice shall he learn, order by order, line upon line, even precept on precept, to become like Me and do the things they see Me do. Wherefore, I confer priesthood upon men who would be My servants, and I give them
authority to minister. But woman are ministers from the foundation of the world.

15) And when a man wishes to engage in the work ofmy Father which is in Heaven, you unto whom I have given this authority may confer it unto him and ordain him to that stewardship that I shall provide for him. That he may also take up his cross and learn by the application of the Law of the Gospel to give freely of himself, breaking his heart and humbling his spirit. For,this is the sacrifice which I will accept of him.
Yea, he shall bend his own will and tame it, and do whatsoever I shall command him. And this he shall learn to do without coercion or compulsion, but freely ofhis own accord. This is the sacrifice of the heart and the spirit which I require of all those who would call themselves My servants.

16) And that man shall attend to do his duty unto the people, administering the sacraments unto them, keeping My Holy House, and teaching the people. This is the work that I shall require of him. And behold, he shall do all this freely and shall not be compelled to do it in any way. For, though the priesthood appear to be that by which service is rendered unto others, it is a service unto Me and unto My Father. Wherefore, let him do it with an eye single to the glory of God and not tohis own. And if he do this, he shall attain to that
state of happiness of which the prophets have spoken, both in this life as also in the life to come.

]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by cindy mexicohttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-1125
Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:26:11 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-112511) And behold, when He had said these words, He did join the hands of Corianton, my son, and Pa-Sabel and presented them together to the host, saying:

12) These two have become First Man and First Woman. Surely, they shall always administer My sacraments together. For, the one is not without the other in Me. Wherefore, I shall bless and sanctify all that they do.

13) And unto the two, He said:

14) Go now and do like as you did unto Me also unto all this people, teaching them to do likewise unto every person. And they went straightway and ministered unto the people, teaching them the ordinance of these two sacraments.

15) And when they had done this and returned again, He turned again unto me and said:

16) Are there any sick and afflicted among you? Let them come up unto Me and I will bless them. And by their faith, they shall be made whole.

17) And we did cause that all those who were sick and afflicted to approach Him and He was pleased. For there were not so many who were sick and afflicted because of the many healers that worked their gifts among us. But there were some who had met with accidents who were halt and some who had complaints that they had borne for many years for which the Healers had no cure. But behold, these were not many.

18) Now, when they had approached the Lord, He did lay hands on them and blessed them. And behold, they did arise and were free of their afflictions. And thiswas a great confirmation of what we had always
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believed about the Lord, that He is mighty to saveboth quick and dead. And we rejoiced in this affirmation.

19) And when He had blessed all the sick and the afflicted, He turned again unto me and said:

20) Suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.

21) And we did suffer all the parents to gather the little children and bring them to the Lord. And He did teach them many things that cannot be written. And He raised His hands into the air and He blessed all the little ones. Now when He had done this, a great light was seen in the sky above their heads and they were all enveloped in light. And it was to be seen within the light that Angels descended and did minister to the children. And voices were heard that we did not understand, and songs were voiced that we did not know.
And all the people marveled at this thing. And when the Angels had again ascended and the light had gone away, behold, the countenances of the children shone still and they did prophecy.

Chapter Seven

1) Now, after all these things had taken place, Jesus turned once again to me and said:

2) Behold, the people of Corianton are Nemenhah indeed. Great should be your joy and also your cause to give thanks and rejoice. For, you have listened toMy voice and you have soughtMy face. Wherefore, I have manifested Myself unto you at many times, and you are not surprised nor too much amazed by My appearance unto you this day. This thing does please Me very much. Now I go unto the Nemenhah of Mentinah again to teach them. Continue faithful and I will visit you often to teach you also.

3) And after He had said this, a cloud did descend fromheaven and He was taken up in it and carried away with a great sound.

4) And I, and all the people, did stand in amazement and in joy. Yea, we felt a joy that could not find expression. And we could not find it in ourselves to depart one from another for the space of many hours because of the Spirit that was in us. For, of a sudden one person or another would burst forth in prophecy and we were loathe to be absent from such miracles.

5) Now, in three days time the people had meant to meet to worship together because of the signs that had been shown in the heavens. And now that Jesus had visited them and manifested Himself unto them, they were all the more anxious to meet and offer oblations unto Him. And it was while we were thus met and employed that we looked and behold, Jesus stood in our midst. And when we had seen Him, all the people bowed down to the earth before Him. And He sat with us and taught us upon the bench, saying:

]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by cindy mexicohttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-1124
Fri, 18 Apr 2014 21:25:02 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-1124Jesus Christ visits the people of Corianton; and ordains women

The Other Book of Mormon

Mentinah Archives vol. 1

The Second Book of Shi-Muel ( Samuel the Lamanite )

Page 78

Chapter Six
1) Now, it was while I labored as High Priest to the people of Corianton, before the year wherein my father returned unto our fathers, that the signs which I had prophesied unto the people of Zarahemlah concerning the birth of the Christ were accomplished. And when my son Corianton and I did labor together in that capacity the signs of His death came, and the people were amazed and affrighted.

2) But behold, the Spirit did whisper peace to our minds and to our souls so that we did patiently bear the day, the night and the day of darkness. For, though the occurrence was frightful, still, the Spirit did sing a song of sweet redemption to our souls. And many dreamed dreams and saw visions. And even some few did receive commandments as to what should be done when the Lord did come to visit the people of Corianton.

3) And He did come unto us, in accordance with the visions that I too had received when I was but a young man. For, we had gathered together to worship when the signs came. Yea, and all the people in the cities had gathered to Corianton. And all the people in the forests had gathered, and also from the lakes and rivers. And we were all together, a great concourse of people awaiting the coming of the Lord.

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4) And we did hear His voice from afar off and we did shout with joy when we heard it. For, it caused our hearts to leap. Yea, our hearts did leap within our breasts and nothing could haveprevented us from crying out our joy when we heard His voice.

5) But the voice was first a voice of warning unto all those who did wickedness. And from this we understood in our hearts that not all the wicked were destroyed. But behold, many were destroyed, even the most part, and that so that all might have one or many accounts to tell of the signs that preceded the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the voice was as the voice of an Angel, not of a trump or of thunder. But it did pierce us to the core. And behold, the voice did also separate the good from the bad. For, those who feared the retribution of a just God, trembled and sought to hide themselves. Yea, and they were
filled with great loathing to see Him. But those who did good works were filled with joy and they ran out into the streets and clearings to see what was about tobefall. Yea, they welcomed their Lord with praise and singing.

6) And in the day that He did come amongst us, and it was not long after the signs of His death had abated, we did according to the things we had been commanded in the visions and revelations that many had received during the days of darkness.

7) Behold, we did greet Him as our King and our High Priest. And I did take Him by the hand and I did lead Him to the seat of the High Priest. And I did place upon Him the robes of the High Priest and He did sit upon the seat. And behold, I did declare to all the people that this was the Christ, the Son of the Living God; He who was killed by His own; He who had paid the uttermost price for our redemption and who had sealed it with the sacrifice mostdear. And the people did gather to the Temple to see Him and to hear His words.

8) And behold, my son Corianton did approach the seat and, bowing himself down before his Lord, he did wash His feet, hands, and head, and he did anoint Him with oil most precious. And when he had done this, the Lord did place His hands upon the head of Corianton and blessed him, and bid him arise.

9) And behold, Pa-Sabel approached also the seat and bowed herself down before the Lord. And she did break bread and blessed it, as she had been taught to do upon the Way. And she offered it to the Lord, and He did eat. And she did pour out pure wine into a grail and blessed it, as she had been taught to do upon the Way. And she offered it to the Lord, and He did drink. And when this was done He took her by the hand and arose from the seat. And He said in the hearing of all the people gathered there:

10) Behold, this is well, what these two have done unto me. For they did approach me upon the Way. Yea, they did seek My face and I did acknowledge them. And behold, I did teach them these things upon the Way when I did show Myself unto them who sought Me. Let them be an ensample unto all those who would come unto Me and diligently seek Me. Unto such shall I give My kingdom. Yea, of such shall I make up My jewels.

]]>Comment on One Being or Two: A Guest Post by Dr. Steven Harper, LDS Church History Department by Davehttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/04/01/one-two-guest-post-dr-steven-harper-lds-church-history-department/#comment-928
Wed, 02 Apr 2014 03:34:03 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1924#comment-928John, it may be a bit weak. However, I think you downplay the difference between speaking and writing. I wonder how anyone could be so stupid as to be able to speak, know the various letters and their sounds, and write fragmented garbage they would never say. And yet, that is how most people write. (And they use quotation marks for emphasis–no one knows quite what they’re thinking.) Perhaps Joseph Smith, like 90% of the so-called literate population, couldn’t quite make the transition from speech to writing. In which case, it wouldn’t matter that he had heard the words.
]]>Comment on One Being or Two: A Guest Post by Dr. Steven Harper, LDS Church History Department by John Williamshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/04/01/one-two-guest-post-dr-steven-harper-lds-church-history-department/#comment-922
Tue, 01 Apr 2014 18:00:23 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1924#comment-922According to the canonized account, the Father and the Son identified themselves to Joseph. It seems a little odd that Joseph would have struggled to identify them after they had said who they were. He might have struggled to explain what they looked like and how they appeared before him, but you still have two beings who have told young Joseph who they are. This argument from Dr. Harper seems a bit weak to me.
]]>Comment on Podcast #7: The First Vision by One Being or Two: A Guest Post by Dr. Steven Harper, LDS Church History Department « Mormon History Guyhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/13/podcast-7-first-vision/#comment-918
Tue, 01 Apr 2014 15:22:34 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1896#comment-918[…] following post is a follow-up to the podcast conducted with Dr. Steven C. Harper on the First Vision. It addresses one of the most […]
]]>Comment on Podcast #7: The First Vision by Kirk Brocashttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/13/podcast-7-first-vision/#comment-911
Tue, 01 Apr 2014 05:46:18 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1896#comment-911I enjoyed this podcast. DOes Stephen have a website? searching on his name I suspect he is a Canadian politician 🙂
]]>Comment on Plague: The Mormon Opposition to Pornography, 1850s-1966 by Episode 105: The History of LDS Views on Pornography | FMH Podcasthttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/10/23/plague-the-mormon-opposition-to-pornography-1850s-1966-2/#comment-882
Mon, 31 Mar 2014 04:48:51 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.wordpress.com/?p=1780#comment-882[…] mentioned in this podcast: Plague: The Mormon Opposition to Pornography, 1850s-1966 Russell’s book, Black Mormon: The Story of Elijah […]
]]>Comment on Podcast #7: The First Vision by tootpastehttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/13/podcast-7-first-vision/#comment-698
Sun, 23 Mar 2014 05:25:34 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1896#comment-698The post has actually been an eye opener, happy to have actually discovered it.
]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by MormonHistoryGuyhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-660
Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:47:55 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-660I don’t hold a strong opinion on that one either way. Given what we know about how demonic possession was typically perceived in the ancient world, it can be safely assumed that Mary was not considered to be well-regarded woman in her community. And given the other types of people in Jesus’ circles (tax men, political revolutionaries, etc.), I can’t see most respectable people associating with his kinds. Whether this means prostitution or not, of course, I don’t really (nor did Gregory the Great) know.
]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by Tom Hattonhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-659
Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:42:25 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-659Russ,
I love you dude, and think that this is an interesting and informative essay. Just one question though. Are you suggesting Mary Magdalene was a “woman of ill-repute”? I tend to agree with Talmage, that Mary Magdalene is not the same woman as the fallen woman in Luke 7 (Jesus the Christ, 264-265).
]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by Mindy Gledhillhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-656
Wed, 19 Mar 2014 15:36:33 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-656Wow. This is SO well-written. Thank you!
]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by Tom Bartletthttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-650
Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:30:36 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-650If the women of the LDS church can’t hold THE priesthood and they feel they should, how can they think these old white men are inspired to even run “the true church”. Why would they want to be part of it anyway, it’s not true.
]]>Comment on When Mormon History Fails You by Amy Cartwrighthttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/03/18/mormon-history-fails/#comment-648
Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:41:03 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1901#comment-648Russell, I really, really liked this. Thank you.
]]>Comment on A Lesson Plan on Official Declaration #2 by Googlehttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/01/lesson-plan-official-declaration-2/#comment-284
Fri, 07 Feb 2014 03:11:59 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1804#comment-284Google

Here are some links to web sites that we link to since we believe they’re worth visiting.

]]>Comment on Podcast #4: Mormons and the Environment by Hamlethttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2014/01/16/podcast-4-mormons-environment/#comment-268
Thu, 30 Jan 2014 04:28:15 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1878#comment-268Wanted to commend you and Kate for a job well done. We are truly stewards to this earth. Just as we would expect a precious gift that we give to a loved one to be handled with care and respect, so should we treat this precious gift that our Heavenly Father has given us. Keep up the podcasts!
]]>Comment on Faith Crises: A Believer’s Guide by Final Call for Tarefic-Wheaties Nominations! | Wheat and Tareshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/07/25/faith-crises-a-believers-guide/#comment-224
Mon, 06 Jan 2014 22:07:29 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.wordpress.com/?p=1486#comment-224[…] Russell Stevenson, Mormon History Guy: ”Faith Crises: A Believer’s Guide“ […]
]]>Comment on Faith Crises: A Believer’s Guide by Wheaties-Tarefic Update | Wheat and Tareshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/07/25/faith-crises-a-believers-guide/#comment-193
Mon, 30 Dec 2013 08:04:47 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.wordpress.com/?p=1486#comment-193[…] Russell Stevenson, Mormon History Guy: ”Faith Crises: A Believer’s Guide“ […]
]]>Comment on Faith Crises: A Believer’s Guide by Tarefic-Wheaties Nominations 2 | Wheat and Tareshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/07/25/faith-crises-a-believers-guide/#comment-183
Sat, 28 Dec 2013 01:44:55 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.wordpress.com/?p=1486#comment-183[…] Russell Stevenson, Mormon History Guy: ”Faith Crises: A Believer’s Guide“ […]
]]>Comment on Hans Mattsson, Mormonism, and Me by nick.galieti@gmail.comhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/07/23/hans-mattsson-mormonism-and-me/#comment-176
Thu, 26 Dec 2013 16:10:35 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.wordpress.com/?p=1450#comment-176I think that going point for point to try and convince someone that a point in church history is right or wrong, is a fruit-less proposition. However, I do see faith crisis as a time where information can be a wedge to faith, or an opportunity to realign our faith more in God and Christ, than in the self-professed fallible men who are called to be prophets. Prophet’s are important, they have been since the Fall of Adam. But at no time, even with the great prophet Moses, were we ever to think that prophets were to be without fault.

The second is a book called Shaken Faith Syndrome by Michael R. Ash. I hope you don’t give up on trying, but perhaps one or both of these two sources might be of some value to you.

]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by canada goose salghttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-174
Thu, 26 Dec 2013 05:37:00 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-174I could nоt resist commenting. Well wrіtten!
]]>Comment on Let Not God Speak with Us: The Tragedy of Mormon Racism by Ignacio M. Garciahttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/19/let-god-speak-us-victims-tragedy-mormon-racism/#comment-166
Mon, 23 Dec 2013 23:42:12 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1853#comment-166Russell, I commend you for your openness and for calling things as they are. I think one of the biggest problems with discussing race in the church is that the victims have rarely even spoken about it. when they have they have mostly spoken with the voice of faith and long-suffering. We have yet to hear the voice of the indignant or righteously outrage person of color. There are many reasons for this but until this conversation crosses color barriers it will always be one in which there will be discomfort and defensiveness, or extreme self-criticism. All are legitimate feelings but they do not fully understand what being a victim of racism in the church really feels like. A dear friend and I were talking two Sundays ago that some of the most patient and courageous “pioneers” were those Latinos, Blacks, Native American, etc. who have remained faithful while realizing that they were seen as “children of a lesser God” by even those who loved them–I don’t mean those that professed to love them but who actually loved them. We were the little children, the nice people, or the much afflicted ones, but we were still not a real part of them. At the end of the day, they could go back home and feel the blessings that were often absent from the homes of those they loved but never fully understood. I am hoping that my memoir will be published and while it is not specifically about this as it involves much of my chicanismo it does deal with some of these issues, which I think most Mormon intellectuals, including the most liberal, have rarely talked about. In fact, too much liberal Mormonism is about the battle with the cultural conservatives within the church. That is why I appreciate what you do. Keep it up. By the way, I will be a plenary speaker at the MHA and will be speaking in part to this issue of the one-sided conversation.
]]>Comment on First Book of the Week: Massacre at Mountain Meadows by r4I 3dshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2012/07/12/first-book-of-the-week-massacre-at-mountain-meadows/#comment-162
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]]>Comment on Review of Elijah Abel: The Life and Times of a Black Priesthood Holder by maillot blanchttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/08/review-elijah-abel-life-times-black-priesthood-holder/#comment-144
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]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by In Defense of Russell Stevenson - Rational Faithshttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-126
Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:01:12 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-126[…] This past Wednesday the radio program Radio West invited Margaret Blair Young (writer and co-producer/director of the documentary, “Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons and co-author of the black Mormon pioneer trilogy, “Standing on the Promises”), Marvin Perkins (a black LDS member), Russell Stevenson (an independent historian who recently published a biography of Elijah Ables), and John Dehlin (creator of the Mormons Stories podcast empire) to discuss the LDS Church’s recently released statement, found on the Church’s webpage, about blacks and the temple-priesthood ban. In case you have been living under a rock and have no idea of what I am speaking, click here to read the statement. The first half of the program Margaret Young and Marvin Perkins were interviewed; the latter part John Dehlin and Russell Stevenson were interviewed. It is in the latter part of the show where things got interesting. Some of Russell’s statements led to a friendly exchange between he and John. The first of the statements that John saw as being problematic occurred around 45:32 minutes into the program. It set off a fire-storm amongst nearly all of the Mormon Facebook groups; some called for Russell to retract that statement. Russell in response, did not retract his statement, but instead wrote a blog post about it on his Mormon History Guy blog. […]
]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by Katiehttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-113
Sat, 14 Dec 2013 02:13:19 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-113Well John Dehlin surely got something right including the note on defensiveness…

Anyways, maybe I am a septic, but I personally think it is too early to say if the majority of the Mormon people are ready to come to grips with this in 2013. The church just barely released this statement, which isn’t even 100% clear to me as to what they are really saying, and the majority of those I know haven’t read it.Only three people I personally know have I ever seen actually express the idea that the Priesthood ban was an error. So I think 2013 is actually an optimistic statement!! I really hope that people are open to this, but I think that people like the Mormon History Guy are ahead of the ‘Mormon times.’
Thank you for saying what you believe to be the truth unapologetically. You’ve helped me to open my eyes to something I obviously did not want to see, but it is the right thing to do. I am not any better than those who went along with the ban for so long, because I was willing to justify it myself with the false doctrine I’d heard. I don’t know how I would have accepted a thought of it before now. May God’s grace and forgiveness rest upon us as a people.

]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by Randy B.http://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-110
Fri, 13 Dec 2013 19:04:37 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-110I’m not sure what your comment has to do with anything I’ve written, so I suppose it’s probably best just to leave things there if you don’t intend to respond to my actual arguments. Best to you.
]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by MormonHistoryGuyhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-109
Fri, 13 Dec 2013 18:56:56 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-109Randy:

Unfortunately, racism does not work like a light bulb. A statement doesn’t change racial attitudes overnight. I wish it had been a more fundamental change.

]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by Randy B.http://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-108
Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:36:28 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-108It’s not just that it’s damning, it’s simply untrue. To be sure, racial issues have been, and continue to be, a source of serious concern in the church. And members certainly have resisted past changes in doctrine / policy / discourse. But the fundamental change here came over three decades ago. The idea that members could handle the reversal of this long-standing, on-the-ground policy in 1978 (changes that would lead, for example, to blacks serving in the temple, serving as bishops and stake presidents, etc.), but not the disavowal of mere statements previously advanced in favor of the policy for another 35 years, strikes me as more than a little far fetched.

The better explanation, and the one that others such as Bushman have discussed, relates to what this statement means about the fallibility of prophets more generally. I can at least understand (though I strongly disagree) why the church might have hoped to avoid triggering this conversation anew. As Bushman says, for many Latter-day Saints, that is going to be a difficult conversation. But that is fundamentally different from arguing that the members themselves are at fault for this delayed teaching because they had not adequately “reckoned” were their own racism.

I have no problem saying “damning things” about the state of the Mormon people. And I’m glad we’ve grown since 1978. As we both know, the Mormon people have often resisted change both from society and from their leadership-and that includes a change of discourse. Talking about something sincerely and seriously is but a form of reckoning. I’m grateful that globalization and the information age has invited (almost compelled) the Saints to be more ready to have a dialogue on this topic.

]]>Comment on 2013?! Wow. Ok. by Randy B.http://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/13/2013-wow-ok/#comment-105
Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:03:20 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1840#comment-105“I said that it has taken this long for the Mormon community to reckon with their racial past.”

Well, that’s not what you actually said.

The remark at issue comes at around the 46 minute mark of the program, in response to Doug Fabrizio specifically pressing you on whether you actually believe that the church’s statement did not come out any earlier than 2013 because the members “weren’t ready.” Your response to this specific point: “It did take that long for the Mormon rank and file to be ready to receive this kind of language.” Asked, incredulously, by Doug, “2013?”, you responded, emphatically, “Yes, 2013.”

No doubt we will be “reckoning” with our “racial past” — as a church, as a country, as individuals — for some time to come. Your post here addresses some of that. But that’s a very different question from whether church members could have received a statement from their beloved prophet on this topic any earlier than 2013.

With all due respect, your statement has to be one of the most damning things I’ve heard anyone say about Mormons. And a point on which I could not disagree more.

“Why do you not open the windows of heaven and get revelation for yourself? and not go whining around and saying, ‘do you not think that you may be mistaken? Can a Prophet or an Apostle be mistaken?’ Do not ask me any such question, for I will acknowledge that all the time, but I do not acknowledge that I designedly lead this people astray one hair’s breadth from the truth, and I do not knowingly do a wrong, though I may commit many wrongs, and so may you. But I overlook your weaknesses, and I know by experience that the Saints lift their hearts to God that I may be led right. If I am thus borne off by your prayers and faith, with my own, and suffered to lead you wrong, it proves that your faith is vain. Do not worry.”

—A Series of Instructions and Remarks by President Brigham Young at a Special Council, Tabernacle, March 22, 1858 (Salt Lake City, 1858), pamphlet in Frederick Kesler Collection, J. Willard Marriott Library, University of Utah.

]]>Comment on The White Element: Heber Meeks and the First Mormon Mission to Cuba by Bruce Crowhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/06/white-element-heber-meeks-first-mormon-mission-cuba/#comment-86
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:39:03 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1823#comment-86Sure.

I found it in the Southern States Mission Manuscript. Dates are Jan 4, 1904; Jan 9, 1904; and Jan 29, 1904. With the following references: Hist Rec 3491 p 931; Elders Journal 1:60-61; Journal of Ben E. Rich.

President Rich reported a very successful trip to Cuba. He and Sister Rich met Brother Emil Gammeter of Akron Ohio and his wife at Washington, and they sailed from New York. “With the exception of a couple of days of stormy weather, their voyage to Cuba was very pleasant and their visit in Havana, Matanzas and other parts of the island made a very enjoyable tour.”

]]>Comment on The White Element: Heber Meeks and the First Mormon Mission to Cuba by MormonHistoryGuyhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/06/white-element-heber-meeks-first-mormon-mission-cuba/#comment-85
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:38:50 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1823#comment-85Love it. Would care to post the source here?
]]>Comment on The White Element: Heber Meeks and the First Mormon Mission to Cuba by Bruce Crowhttp://mormonhistoryguy.com/2013/12/06/white-element-heber-meeks-first-mormon-mission-cuba/#comment-84
Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:27:27 +0000http://mormonhistoryguy.com/?p=1823#comment-84Very interesting indeed.

I recently found some evidence that Ben E. Rich visited Cuba in 1904 while he was President of the Southern States Mission, though I have as yet found no more detail about his visit than a single sentence. He took his wife Diana, and a member from Ohio named Emil E Gammeter. I suspect it was more as a tourist trip.