This justification of Rafa's physique - his technique on the f/h or top spin he imparts to the ball is the reason for his exceptional muscle mass - is just hilarious!! Babble, you know topspin is as old as tennis.

Leftie f/h with top spin is also common knowledge - ain't that why Senor Toni had his nephew play left-handed in the 1st place?

I have not seen another guy who looked so buff on a tennis court - especially one who professed to shunning the gym!

I would like Johnny McEnroe's opinion on this theory behind Rafa's physique!! Poor John played doubles and singles with great success for a significant period of time, and has no 'guns' to prove it -how sad!!

He was/is a ball massager.Rarely hit with 'wicked' spin.Surely hasn't hit nearly as many balls as Nadal in his lifetime.He was a short point player, not a rallier.All this adds up to No Guns for JMac.

a Rafa fanboy explained the musculature of his hero being the result of hitting with an insane amout of topspin.

Thanks for the personal insults....

Anyway, I'm outta here, have fun circle ing

like a baby when someone says poop about your hero? Yep, you fit the description: fanboy.

You guys and girls have the thinnest of skin. Why is that?

Alex is the exception to the rule. In another thread, I'm being critical of Djokovic-Murray (and to a far lesser extent, Nadal). The Nadal fans are sobbing and Emma (Murray) is hysterical (not Ha ha). Alex (Djokovic) is taking the whole discussion in stride.

a Rafa fanboy explained the musculature of his hero being the result of hitting with an insane amout of topspin.

Thanks for the personal insults....

Anyway, I'm outta here, have fun circle ing

like a baby when someone says poop about your hero? Yep, you fit the description: fanboy.

You guys and girls have the thinnest of skin. Why is that?

Alex is the exception to the rule. In another thread, I'm being critical of Djokovic-Murray (and to a far lesser extent, Nadal). The Nadal fans are sobbing and Emma (Murray) is hysterical (not Ha ha). Alex (Djokovic) is taking the whole discussion in stride.

Kudos to Alex!

You didn't answer the question, how come his right arm is skinny then? This is just pure BS and trolling...

well, thanks Babs and MT for your kind words . I try to be objective and neutral regardless of the fact that I support Nole. When I started supporting him he was just a kid who won nothing. He turned out to be a big champion so I'll take it . Above all, I love tennis.Nekro, just a friendly advice here. Don't take things so personally. Babs and MT are good, smart guys. They are not against you. We joke around, we are often very cynical and poke at one another ...

If it's going to make you feel better, when Nole started winning everything left and right in 2011 (he won many tournaments prior to 2011) many guys on tennis boards started questioning his superman form. First it was the egg (I hope you know what I'm talking about), then they said 'well, he must be doping' ... how come heat is not bothering him any more, he is not retiring from matches any more ... he can play 6 hours matches and still be fresh etc.

We can only speculate. Maybe Nole, Fed, Rafa and Murray are all doping. I don't know. Nole says that WADA should be testing them more often. Murray and Fed said the same thing. Djokovic said he hadn't been tested in almost 6 moths. Nadal, for whatever reason, has been tested more often although he hasn't been playing tennis now for almost 7 moths.

I think that lower ranked players are actually more prone to try to use some illegal stuff but who knows how often and if they are getting tested at all.

It's a complicated issue. I'm, personally disgusted with Lance Armstrong. All BS, all lies, denying everything for years, playing stupid and then ... he shows up on Oprah and finally admits everything feeling guilty, almost crying, whatever ... they took away his trophies, but did they make him give all of his prize and endorsement money? of course not. He is a super rich guy. so was it worth it?

well, thanks Babs and MT for your kind words . I try to be objective and neutral regardless of the fact that I support Nole. When I started supporting him he was just a kid who won nothing. He turned out to be a big champion so I'll take it . Above all, I love tennis.Nekro, just a friendly advice here. Don't take things so personally. Babs and MT are good, smart guys. They are not against you. We joke around, we are often very cynical and poke at one another ...

If it's going to make you feel better, when Nole started winning everything left and right in 2011 (he won many tournaments prior to 2011) many guys on tennis boards started questioning his superman form. First it was the egg (I hope you know what I'm talking about), then they said 'well, he must be doping' ... how come heat is not bothering him any more, he is not retiring from matches any more ... he can play 6 hours matches and still be fresh etc.

We can only speculate. Maybe Nole, Fed, Rafa and Murray are all doping. I don't know. Nole says that WADA should be testing them more often. Murray and Fed said the same thing. Djokovic said he hadn't been tested in almost 6 moths. Nadal, for whatever reason, has been tested more often although he hasn't been playing tennis now for almost 7 moths.

I think that lower ranked players are actually more prone to try to use some illegal stuff but who knows how often and if they are getting tested at all.

It's a complicated issue. I'm, personally disgusted with Lance Armstrong. All BS, all lies, denying everything for years, playing stupid and then ... he shows up on Oprah and finally admits everything feeling guilty, almost crying, whatever ... they took away his trophies, but did they make him give all of his prize and endorsement money? of course not. He is a super rich guy. so was it worth it?

Thanks Alex for the advice, however, my problem is this:

Clay Death told me that Shankar doesn't want to come back to the board.... Actually I saw the incident that made him leave: the jesse james guy called him a homosexual, so he tried to defend himself but his posts got deleted.....

And today I tested this thread, well, this is what I saw: people including the Dallas mod insinuating Nadal is a doper, propstoart insinuating Nadal has actually admitted to doping in some strange symbolic way I ask a simple question: If it's not the stroke that made Nadal's left arm so muscular how come his right arm is so skinny and of course I don't get any sensible answer only fanboy crybaby bla bla bla senseless trollery and BS from the babblelot character.... Well, I'm gonna say this: I find this behaviour strange, I mean the lack of sensible discussion, the mean spirited accusations without proof and the focus on personal attacks and trollery........do you get what I mean? Even though I don't give a rat's butt about Nadal I find that kind of behaviour disgusting sorry......

Necro,I just went to TW, I don't post there I just check it out once in a while. They are discussing Djokovic, his egg and some of them claim he is a doper. It's like a good comedy show.

Now as for Jessie calling Shank a homosexual, so what (if that's so insulting to him he could've complain to mods, although IMHO not sure why take that as an insult)? gay people are just people... Emma calls me gay/homo all the time, I couldn't care less . Shank is a great guy but he does tend to be too sensitive sometimes (well, he lives in India, so maybe that's a sensitive topic there, not sure). Again, I don't know who said what but this is a pretty civil board. We've known each other for a long time. Nobody is really trolling here, well except Dallas in her The Roger God thread

Now, I know you used to post on MTF and it's a jungle. MTF the Church of Federer. T4u is another Church of Federer. it's just the way it is. that's why me and Babs harass Dallas, FFF and other Fed fans any time we can . They deserve it but they can also take it, if you know what I mean.

You remember how Fed tards used to attack Nadal on MTF. well now they switched to Djokovic. There a couple of them who are really bad. Any thread about Nole, they are right there, mocking him, and trying to prove how Fed is God and Nole is a useless one dimensional prick from Eastern Europe (white trash). They say 'peak Fed' would destroy him, conveniently forgetting that 20 yo was beating Fed.

so my point is, don't let these things affect you so much. people are stupid and they will always BS no matter what. If you agree with them they will love you, if you disagree some of them will hate you and they'll try to prove they are right. I assume you are a young guy.

This justification of Rafa's physique - his technique on the f/h or top spin he imparts to the ball is the reason for his exceptional muscle mass - is just hilarious!! Babble, you know topspin is as old as tennis.

Leftie f/h with top spin is also common knowledge - ain't that why Senor Toni had his nephew play left-handed in the 1st place?

I have not seen another guy who looked so buff on a tennis court - especially one who professed to shunning the gym!

I would like Johnny McEnroe's opinion on this theory behind Rafa's physique!! Poor John played doubles and singles with great success for a significant period of time, and has no 'guns' to prove it -how sad!!

He was/is a ball massager.Rarely hit with 'wicked' spin.Surely hasn't hit nearly as many balls as Nadal in his lifetime.He was a short point player, not a rallier.All this adds up to No Guns for JMac.

Good points against JMac's lack of guns, what about Guga or Brugera or Costa or Muster or Lendl - MS, this is not an argument you can win! However, without any proof/revelation/news regarding the tennis players who consulted Dr. Fuentes, I cannot either!!

I know one thing...to get the muscular definition that Rafa has in that left arm...he had to have had weights or something....you don't get that just from playing tennis. Heck, Roger plays ONE handed and has been playing longer than Nadal and his right arm is still puny compared to Nadal's arm (and Nadal plays with 2 hands on the backhand. So for Nadal to say he does no gym???? Interesting.

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The wording I remember regarding this topic was he uses 'no weights'. You must admit, his body shape has a natural predispostion for muscularity, the complete opposite of Lady Federer. I think it's called mesomorph.

It would truly be a shame if he or any other player is outed.

Thanks for the insight, MS. I hope you are right about Rafa being Meso-morphic! The alternative would be a hammer blow!

Necro,I just went to TW, I don't post there I just check it out once in a while. They are discussing Djokovic, his egg and some of them claim he is a doper. It's like a good comedy show.

Now as for Jessie calling Shank a homosexual, so what (if that's so insulting to him he could've complain to mods, although IMHO not sure why take that as an insult)? gay people are just people... Emma calls me gay/homo all the time[/u], I couldn't care less . Shank is a great guy but he does tend to be too sensitive sometimes (well, he lives in India, so maybe that's a sensitive topic there, not sure). Again, I don't know who said what but this is a pretty civil board. We've known each other for a long time. Nobody is really trolling here, well except Dallas in her The Roger God thread

Now, I know you used to post on MTF and it's a jungle. MTF the Church of Federer. T4u is another Church of Federer. it's just the way it is. that's why me and Babs harass Dallas, FFF and other Fed fans any time we can . They deserve it but they can also take it, if you know what I mean.

You remember how Fed tards used to attack Nadal on MTF. well now they switched to Djokovic. There a couple of them who are really bad. Any thread about Nole, they are right there, mocking him, and trying to prove how Fed is God and Nole is a useless one dimensional prick from Eastern Europe (white trash). They say 'peak Fed' would destroy him, conveniently forgetting that 20 yo was beating Fed.

so my point is, don't let these things affect you so much. people are stupid and they will always BS no matter what. If you agree with them they will love you, if you disagree some of them will hate you and they'll try to prove they are right. I assume you are a young guy.

Bro, what is it that 'haters' mean by Nole's 'egg'??

On a side note, Emma is more obsessed with gays/homosexuals than George Michael and Elton John combined!!

Necro,I just went to TW, I don't post there I just check it out once in a while. They are discussing Djokovic, his egg and some of them claim he is a doper. It's like a good comedy show.

Now as for Jessie calling Shank a homosexual, so what (if that's so insulting to him he could've complain to mods, although IMHO not sure why take that as an insult)? gay people are just people... Emma calls me gay/homo all the time[/u], I couldn't care less . Shank is a great guy but he does tend to be too sensitive sometimes (well, he lives in India, so maybe that's a sensitive topic there, not sure). Again, I don't know who said what but this is a pretty civil board. We've known each other for a long time. Nobody is really trolling here, well except Dallas in her The Roger God thread

Now, I know you used to post on MTF and it's a jungle. MTF the Church of Federer. T4u is another Church of Federer. it's just the way it is. that's why me and Babs harass Dallas, FFF and other Fed fans any time we can . They deserve it but they can also take it, if you know what I mean.

You remember how Fed tards used to attack Nadal on MTF. well now they switched to Djokovic. There a couple of them who are really bad. Any thread about Nole, they are right there, mocking him, and trying to prove how Fed is God and Nole is a useless one dimensional prick from Eastern Europe (white trash). They say 'peak Fed' would destroy him, conveniently forgetting that 20 yo was beating Fed.

so my point is, don't let these things affect you so much. people are stupid and they will always BS no matter what. If you agree with them they will love you, if you disagree some of them will hate you and they'll try to prove they are right. I assume you are a young guy.

Bro, what is it that 'haters' mean by Nole's 'egg'??On a side note, Emma is more obsessed with gays/homosexuals than George Michael and Elton John combined!!

well, thanks Babs and MT for your kind words . I try to be objective and neutral regardless of the fact that I support Nole. When I started supporting him he was just a kid who won nothing. He turned out to be a big champion so I'll take it . Above all, I love tennis.Nekro, just a friendly advice here. Don't take things so personally. Babs and MT are good, smart guys. They are not against you. We joke around, we are often very cynical and poke at one another ...

If it's going to make you feel better, when Nole started winning everything left and right in 2011 (he won many tournaments prior to 2011) many guys on tennis boards started questioning his superman form. First it was the egg (I hope you know what I'm talking about), then they said 'well, he must be doping' ... how come heat is not bothering him any more, he is not retiring from matches any more ... he can play 6 hours matches and still be fresh etc.

We can only speculate. Maybe Nole, Fed, Rafa and Murray are all doping. I don't know. Nole says that WADA should be testing them more often. Murray and Fed said the same thing. Djokovic said he hadn't been tested in almost 6 moths. Nadal, for whatever reason, has been tested more often although he hasn't been playing tennis now for almost 7 moths.

I think that lower ranked players are actually more prone to try to use some illegal stuff but who knows how often and if they are getting tested at all.

It's a complicated issue. I'm, personally disgusted with Lance Armstrong. All BS, all lies, denying everything for years, playing stupid and then ... he shows up on Oprah and finally admits everything feeling guilty, almost crying, whatever ... they took away his trophies, but did they make him give all of his prize and endorsement money? of course not. He is a super rich guy. so was it worth it?

Thanks Alex for the advice, however, my problem is this:

Clay Death told me that Shankar doesn't want to come back to the board.... Actually I saw the incident that made him leave: the jesse james guy called him a homosexual, so he tried to defend himself but his posts got deleted.....

And today I tested this thread, well, this is what I saw: people including the Dallas mod insinuating Nadal is a doper, propstoart insinuating Nadal has actually admitted to doping in some strange symbolic way I ask a simple question: If it's not the stroke that made Nadal's left arm so muscular how come his right arm is so skinny and of course I don't get any sensible answer only fanboy crybaby bla bla bla senseless trollery and BS from the babblelot character.... Well, I'm gonna say this: I find this behaviour strange, I mean the lack of sensible discussion, the mean spirited accusations without proof and the focus on personal attacks and trollery........do you get what I mean? Even though I don't give a rat's butt about Nadal I find that kind of behaviour disgusting sorry......

Any insinuations I am making are exactly that - insinuations! I am no expert in sports physiology! Its the doping controversies and court drama out in Spain that have got me and others around the globe wondering.. Sorry if I hurt you. Until proven otherwise, Rafa is !

As Alex said - Federer could be doping himself - in which case he needs to do a better job of it!

How would someone know all of this - zero tests? The ITF wouldn't make that info easy to discover.

I'm calling b.s. Someone is trolling rabid Serena fans.

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For the record, I've never accused Rafa of doping in the past. His physique was never a problem for me. And when Yannick Noah said all of Spain is on the dope, I said, "Shut up and sing, Noah."

When this thread was started, I called "B.S." It wasn't until I happened upon the article about the Spanish doping doctor whose clients include Spanish tennis players that I could no longer turn a blind eye to it.

Today, I follow Almagro. Maybe he's on the dope, too.

And while we're at it, I have to read about what a choking, mental midget Almagro is on a regular basis. If my skin was as thin as all y'all fanboys (not restricted to Nadal fanboys), I'd be as batsh*t crazy as Emma by now. Like I said elsewhere, I've been Fedfanboys for 7 years. I have no reason to throw them a bone now.

I see your point Alex.... The problem is that a lurker checks the section he/she will see this: fedtrolls, supported by a fedtroll mod mocking, hating and accusing Nadal.... Strange, I see no user attacking Federer, you're right btw alex, this section is a another church of Fed, same old same old, playground for Fedtrolls supported by fedtroll mod, just like MTF .... Now I and My feelings have no problem with this, my problem is that Nadal fans are trolled off the board.......Shankar left and the new Nadal fan user tio_toni too who used to log in here and even post from time to time...... Now you can say ooooh crybaby Nadal fangirls with thin skin crying sure, it's not the Fedtrolls' loss all the Nadal fans have left, no wonder they are so happy they even like to crack some jokes about it.... I believe the lovely and very professional Dallas won't miss Shankar......

I see your point Alex.... The problem is that a lurker checks the section he/she will see this: fedtrolls, supported by a fedtroll mod mocking, hating and accusing Nadal.... Strange, I see no user attacking Federer, you're right btw alex, this section is a another church of Fed, same old same old, playground for Fedtrolls supported by fedtroll mod, just like MTF .... Now I and My feelings have no problem with this, my problem is that Nadal fans are trolled off the board.......Shankar left and the new Nadal fan user tio_toni too who used to log in here and even post from time to time...... Now you can say ooooh crybaby Nadal fangirls with thin skin crying sure, it's not the Fedtrolls' loss all the Nadal fans have left, no wonder they are so happy they even like to crack some jokes about it.... I believe the lovely and very professional Dallas won't miss Shankar......

Nekro, think about it this way. When I joined this board back in 2007 I was the only Nole fan. Everyone was talking about Fed and Rafa only. same with MTF, back in 2006 there were just a few of us who recognized Nole's talent. Now, when Djokovic is #1, there are so many Nole tards and they are fighting with Fed tards .

anyway. now when Rafa is back, I guarantee you his fans will come back here. Shank will probably cool down his head. I joke with Dallas all the time, love to tease her. She is obsessed with Fed and there is nothing we can do about it . As I said earlier we shouldn't take ourselves so seriously.

I know one thing...to get the muscular definition that Rafa has in that left arm...he had to have had weights or something....you don't get that just from playing tennis. Heck, Roger plays ONE handed and has been playing longer than Nadal and his right arm is still puny compared to Nadal's arm (and Nadal plays with 2 hands on the backhand. So for Nadal to say he does no gym???? Interesting.

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did you ever see vilas and laver arms?

how about muster?

its the way you hit the ball. heavy topspin requires massive arm strength. imagine hitting like that 4-6 hours a day. that will build up anybody.

it even builds up the whole body.

i lift weights now but i did not lift when i was playing and competing. i too hit with massive topspin off both wings.

i had a single handed backhand. my right arm is nearly twice the size of my left arm and people used to ask me too if i pumped heavy iron when i was playing. i was very muscular.

the way i played contributed to it. i was doing a lot of running when i was playing a lot but no work in the gym.

and now i am muscular as hell because i pump iron 3-4 times a week.

finally, i hit 4-6 hours a day when i was playing and competing.

last thing you should know about your own player is this dallas:

1. he does not hit with heavy topspin2. he plays the game more efficiently than anybody has ever played3. in his prime, he held serve 90% of the time4. his mechanics are near perfect5. he plays at the baseline and often finishes his strokes well into the court6. he ends points in a hurry with his serve, his volleys, and his forehand.

so why the hell would he ever be muscular. this guy finishes his service games in less than a minute. nadal never had that luxury. he serves with the wrong hand for one thing. it takes him a bloody hour to win his own service games. he has had to be more fit than roger over the years. his way of playing and hitting has contributed greatly to the way he looks.

The 26-year-old Spaniard said he'd passed six blood and urine doping tests since then. In the wake of cyclist Lance Armstrong's doping admission, Nadal said he supports strict controls to keep tennis clean.

"Above all, the sport must be clean. We must have certainty that the rival in front is as clean as I am," he said. "I don't have any problem with having controls every week to combat what has happened in other sports. Tennis continues to be a clean sport as it has been throughout its history."

fair enough from good old Rafa. what I do find bizarre is that Djokovic says he hasn't been tested for over 6 months .

The 26-year-old Spaniard said he'd passed six blood and urine doping tests since then. In the wake of cyclist Lance Armstrong's doping admission, Nadal said he supports strict controls to keep tennis clean.

"Above all, the sport must be clean. We must have certainty that the rival in front is as clean as I am," he said. "I don't have any problem with having controls every week to combat what has happened in other sports. Tennis continues to be a clean sport as it has been throughout its history."

fair enough from good old Rafa. what I do find bizarre is that Djokovic says he hasn't been tested for over 6 months .

The controls won't keep tennis clean, the tests can be beat easily.How players get caught is following their associations, paper trails and people not keeping their mouth closed.

There may be suspicions based on performance but there are plenty of other legal factors that can make dramatic differences.

Fed was under the radar until he won his first slam, he then went on a tear.Sometimes things just come together all at once.