Secretary of State Ken Detzner will go on the road next month to pitch for a revived voter scrub, but supervisors of elections, caught in the crosshairs of last year’s problematic purge, and voting-rights advocates remain skeptical.

Detzner’s office announced Wednesday he would meet with supervisors in five cities to get their input into another attempt to identify and remove non-citizens from the voting rolls.

“Through transparency and the statutory due-process protection afforded to every voter, we can ensure the continued integrity of our voter rolls while protecting the voting rights of eligible voters from those who may cast an illegal vote,” Detzner said in a press release Wednesday announcing the “Project Integrity Roundtable Tour” of five cities beginning Oct. 3.

But despite the spin put on “Project Integrity” by Detzner’s office, his announcement immediately drew fire from Pasco County Supervisor of Elections Brian Corley, who tweeted: “There is no greater ‘voter advocate’ or ‘voter roll integrity advocate’ than a Supervisor of Elections!”

Nearly all supervisors scrapped last year’s purge — the brainchild of Gov. Rick Scott — after they discovered that the majority of more than 2,600 voters, many of whom had Hispanic-sounding last names, flagged by Detzner’s office were eligible to vote. The problematic lists included the names of naturalized citizens and even some who were born in the U.S.

A coalition of voting groups representing minorities sued the state over the purge, but the lawsuit was dismissed after a U.S. Supreme Court ruling this summer that tossed out part of the federal Voting Rights Act.

Unlike last time, Detzner’s office is seeking supervisors’ input into the process. But initial reaction showed the supervisors remain dubious.

Orange County Supervisor of Elections Bill Cowles said he was contacted by Detzner’s office Tuesday and asked to provide space for a meeting, scheduled in Orlando on Oct. 7.

“All the supervisors are going to be concerned about why we’re doing it now and what has changed since the last time,” Cowles said.

Polk County elections supervisor Lori Edwards, president of the Florida State Association of Supervisors of Elections, said local officials’ willingness to participate will depend on the integrity of the data provided by the state.

Local supervisors — who have the sole authority to scrub the voter rolls — rely on the state to provide data related to felony convictions and deaths before removing voters. Those processes involve paperwork documenting when someone becomes ineligible or dies, Edwards said.

“We’re going to repeatedly request from the Division of Elections that before they send us the information, they carefully scrutinize the data and make sure it’s reliable. Providing documentation is the key. If you can show me that they’re here on a green card, fine. Then I’ll say hey, you might not be a citizen. But if you just say they’re on some list somewhere, that’s not enough,” she said.

Like Edwards, Corley said the supervisors agree that anyone who is ineligible to vote should be removed from the rolls. The non-citizen “audit” should be a part of routine voter-list maintenance like removing dead voters or convicted felons, Corley said.

“The problem is when you go through this process of doing an audit, it’s got to be done right and devoid of the perceptions of politics. I think sadly what we saw take place last year didn’t meet that litmus test,” Corley said.

In an email to the state’s 67 supervisors sent Wednesday, Division of Elections Director Maria Matthews asked the county officials to attend the meetings in Panama City, Jacksonville, Orlando, Sarasota and Fort Lauderdale.

“These meetings are expressly to discuss this issue with you, but for the sake of transparency, the press will be notified,” Matthews wrote.

Corley gave Detzner credit for reaching out to the supervisors but said it’s too early to say whether the new process will be better.

“I hope round two is a whole lot more accurate and professional than round one because that was amateur hour. That was embarrassing,” he said.

Some critics accused Scott, who is running for another term in 2014, of pushing the non-citizen voter purge because it resonates with tea party activists and conservatives who make up his base.

But Edwards said that, if the purge is a campaign strategy, it is also flawed.

“Why would you draw attention to something that you botched so badly the last time? If this is politically motivated, it seems silly because all it’s doing is rehashing the mess they caused prior to the presidential election,” she said.

Scott blamed last year’s faulty data on President Barack Obama’s administration because the Department of Homeland Security had refused to grant Detzner access to the “System Alien Verification for Entitlements Program,” or SAVE, database. Federal officials and the state entered an agreement allowing Detzner to use the database last summer.

On Monday, representatives from five civil-rights groups — Advancement Project, Florida New Majority, Florida Immigrant Coalition, Haitian-American Grassroots Coalition, and LatinoJustice PRLDEF — sent a policy statement to the 67 supervisors urging them not to rely on the SAVE database to remove voters.

Advancement Project led the lawsuit last year to stop a similar action by Detzner’s office. The state’s agreement with the Department of Homeland Security about the SAVE database also requires the state to create an appeals process for voters who are removed. But the groups noted that the appeals process has yet to be spelled out.

More than 80 percent of the individuals on last year’s list were minorities, the groups wrote on Monday.

“Based on this past experience, we are concerned that again this year, eligible voters of color will be wrongfully made to ‘show their papers’ or otherwise reprove their citizenship before they can vote,” the statement reads.

The groups continued to question the veracity of the SAVE database used to cross-reference names on Florida’s lists of registered voters, as the federal database cannot verify U.S.-born citizens or those born overseas to U.S. citizens.

“The SAVE database is not a complete or accurate list of United States citizens; therefore it is not a definitive check for whether a person is a non-citizen,” the groups stated.

League of Women Voters President Deirdre Macnab said her group “will be paying attention” to the new plan.

“The secretary will need to pack a lot of shoe polish given the track record that previous voter purges have had in Florida,” said Macnab, noting the fears that Scott’s original plan could have caused eligible voters to be disenfranchised.

Voter fraud does occur. It is the job of the Election Supervisors to keep the rolls cleaned up. It’s not only their job. It’s the law. If someone votes illegally, they are disenfranchising someone elses ability to have their vote counted.

Tuscaloosa, AL..10 people registered to vote at one house, for last weeks school board election. The house is empty.

These are just cases from the past 8 weeks.

We can do much better than this. And ID? Get out the vote efforts can ‘get out the ID’ and get these poor people to the DMV to pick up a free ID and join the 21st century like the rest of us. High School and College kids without ID? I hardly believe it. But if it’s true…then they surely aren’t going to concerts, movies, dances, etc. If they can go to off campus parties and partake in entertainment, they can find a ride to get an ID.

Free ID? What free ID? It costs $25 in the state of Florida to get even just a basic State ID card…not to mention the additional costs involved in securing the documents that you need to get the ID, such as a certified copy of your birth certificate, which can easily run another $10-$15 or more. And of course, you can’t get a copy of your birth certificate without providing photo ID…do you see the problem here? Can’t get one without the other…it’s a never ending circle.

Yes. We should all be able to drive w/out having to prove who we are. It took me a good while to dig up my documents. And it was expensive as well. Should do away w/all that ID for collecting SS , filing income tax and to access the new ACA benefits. What does it matter? we’re here aren’t we?

Seriously though..WI and GA provide free ID, and I’m sure many other states do as well. FL should get on the bandwagon w/that. We can sure ‘get out the vote’ so it should be fairly easy to fire up our same political groups to ‘get out the ID’.

“free Id” would have to be passed into law by the exact same people who are trying to disenfranchise an entire class of voters by requiring them to have ID in the first place. Gee, do you really think they are going to do that? Not.

Even passing free ID wouldn’t solve the problem of disenfranchising voters because they don’t have ID. If you don’t have ID, you can’t get the documents you need to get your ID. It takes a court order. The type of voters who don’t have ID don’t exactly have the sort of resources needed to get a court order to get one!

You also need to look a bit harder at that list of “fraud” that you posted. What I see are a lot of errors and attempts at fraud…but no proof of actual fraud taking place. So there were 110 year old dead people on the voter rolls…is there any evidence that anyone was actually trying to vote for them or were the names just gathering dust because someone forgot to process the removal paperwork? In the Williamsburg story, did you notice the part where the person said the people were turned away when their signatures or other info didn’t match?

Attempted fraud that is being CAUGHT is actually proof that the system is working without taking more extreme measures. Erroneous names on the roll that aren’t being used to vote is just a clerical issue, not a fraud issue.

I worked on a state voter rolls project during the last election and had access to state voter lists. Did you know that before the voter lists were cleaned up before the last election that Florida had 129,000 dead people on those voter lists? I don’t know how you can say there is no abuse.

I also did some research on our lists here in Flagler County and found excessively large numbers of people registered at a single address in some cases. I also saw people registered in empty lots and at their place of work. The later two are against the law. In many cases these same names appeared in public records in hundreds of places up and down the state.

I also worked the polls and watched the SOE approve a voter who had a Miami drivers license, something not legal in order to vote in Flagler County.

All of this was reported.

Knowing all this, I don’t know how anyone could possibly make the statement that we don’t have voter fraud. It is too difficult to prove. A valid photo ID would go a long way toward ensuring there is no fraud.

However, rest assured the law is on the side of the voter. Regardless of any problems at the polls, all voters are entitled to cast a provisional ballot in the event there may be any questions about the voter’s ID. No one is turned away.

It is a voters responsibility to keep their record current and to always vote! It is unknown if I move if I don’t tell the appropriate offices such as the elections office. If we voters do our part, the voter rolls would definitely be more accurate!

We need a State (not Fed) Citizenship registry at every poll. Check registration. Uniform voting laws across the nation. Fingerprint voting w a paper trail at all polls, in every state. Video cameras to record the entire process from start to finish, until the final tally is in. Multiple poll workers from all parties present during entire process. Sounds simple to me. Too many mishaps w the machines the past 15 yrs. Will stop a lot of fraud. Some of the state seats were very close in 2012, and a few 1000 or even a few 100 votes can change the results. There is no reason we can’t keep rolls clean and our elections honest. Except politicians like it that way.

Umm, no…you are NOT videotaping me voting or making me fingerprint my ballot. Votes are supposed to be anonymous. The tactics you are suggesting are more appropriate in China, or Iran than in a democratic society.

I realize that it’s against the law to videotape voters in the polling places while they are voting, unless it’s a reporter and you give them permission to videotape you. Not sure if that’s true in all states, but it is in many. Poll workers, lawyers and those who are verifying votes during recounts are videotaped.

I’m not talking about videotaping WHO you vote for. Just the general areas where the votes are kept, and carried out, and counted. Your fingerprint doesn’t go next to your vote. It only goes next to where you sign your name BEFORE you vote, when you sign in. We all have to sign in anyway. And it’s just an added safety measure in case there is any discrepancy later on. To prove it really was you and not someone else. LOL..Unions are the only ones I know of who don’t like secret ballots.

I’m not into video taping either. We are on video when we walk in any Govt building. When we walk in a bank, when we walk in a mall, enter sporting/entertainment venues, etc. Even when we drive down the road our tag is photographed at many points along the highways. We don’t go anywhere nowadays that law enforcement cant review tag scanners and figure out where we have been.

Poll workers DO need to be videotaped during the process of transporting votes from one area to another. They need to be taped when any counting of the votes, repairing of machines done on the premises, etc. ANY handling of the votes. We already tape recounts with all the lawyers, poll workers, counters and the representatives from the different campaigns.

I agree…we should be beyond fingerprints. But w/all the different machines being used made and maintained by different manufacturers, all the hands that play into the mix, corrupt officials, (many elected officials have been arrested this past year nationwide and in FL for fraudulent voting practices and attempted manipulations of the process) there are too many players/factors involved. I think KISS is the best plan. Keep it simple stupid.

We are allowing the ACA to compile all of our and our family health and financial info, from birth to grave into the giant Federal Cloud once ACA starts in full. I believe voting is even more important and every vote should be protected beyond doubt. The majority of Americans want ID and want their vote to be counted. We have to come up w/ some new ideas. That’s just my humble shot at a solution.

You are forgetting one problem with giving the government your fingerprint to vote. Are those fingerprints going to stay with voting records or will they be used for other purposes? They sure would be a tempting target for law enforcement wanting to expand their database of fingerprints. Even if the initial intent was only to use them to provide “secure” voting, how long do you think it would stay that way before law enforcement would start trying to grab that data? Should we have to submit to the equivalent of a search by law enforcement to be allowed to vote? That is REALLY totalitarian territory to be playing in.

And let’s talk about voter suppression…the GOP is already trying to keep a class of people from trying to vote. Do you think that if you told that class of people, most of whom don’t trust the government very much and many of whom have been hassled unnecessarily by government just because of who they are (hello, stop and frisk) that they would have to be fingerprinted to vote that they would show up at the polls? A lot of them wouldn’t, simply because they fear the government. Which is exactly what the GOP wants. THEIR voters trust the government blindly when it comes to “security”.

I like stop and frisk. I can spot druggies a mile away. Grew up in the hippie culture and have family members who are recovered users. I think it’s common sense to profile. No, I don’t trust Federal Govt with keeping my info secure. Barely trust State offices. People are so amoral now. The fingerprints are for State election office only, which is about as far as I would go. Besides, what abuse can happen w a crook getting my fingerprint copy? About as much as can happen w all the info we give Govco to drive, open a bank account, attend college, apply for loans, give birth, etc. It’s just like a birth certificate. I think fingerprints might solve several problems. Proving citizenship for one. I may change my mind about this w/a little more info, but for now, it doesn’t bother me.

I simply don’t understand this article. The last election required all those voting (at my local polling place) to submit official identification before being issued a ballot. Is this not a requirement when voting absentee? Where exactly is the fraud? Or, is this just another form of voter intimidation/supression?

To Becky C.
There were no mishaps in the past 2 elections held…Unless you call a mishaps the fact that GOP lost 2 in a row! When you guys loose is over fraudulent elections..? The only fraud is caused by the GOP jerrymandering the redistribution of our districts, making voters stand in line for hours to cast their ballots by denying enough early voting sufficient time. Purging voters lists from American citizens that included even veterans and some very elderly. Now the new suppression ideas of conservative obsession zealots like you having us filmed while voting, or having our voters frivolously challenged by Gestapo style dudes? They harass university students mainly minority ones to denied their right to vote in campus where they reside for years until their graduation? When we vote absentee as is not in person, we do not have to show our ID to anyone. Our ballot is mailed by request and from the supervisors registration documents on file. What fraud are you talking about?
Like Nancy above says our ballot is secret!
Just keep on doing the good suppression work in order to secure another Democratic victory in 2014 and 2016 and doesn’t matter who runs. Keep up the good work Becky!
I never seeing so many voters with such a determination to vote as I saw in 2008 and 2012.
Thank you Nancy for making the record straight!

@Confidential and Nancy. . . you are right on! The GOP is still stunned that they did not win the last 2 Presidential elections. They spent an amazing amount of money on their campaigns, they reconfigured districts, they kept people away from the polls and suppressed Democratic votes in horrific ways. . . yet they still lost. They couldn’t use the old “hanging chad” gambit to steal another election.

Now, the Republicans need to blame their lost elections on cheating. . . which is really their tactics and area of expertise. The GOP simply can’t comprehend that the down trodden finally showed up to make their opinions legally count. . . twice!

I just found this. .how about going to hand counting paper ballots? Germany outlawed electronic voting. Scottland and the Netherlands have gone back to pencil voting. These folks believe that hand counting takes care of any suppression and most fraud, real or imagined:

A hand count of the ballots is done after the election which is called a post manual audit. Read the Florida Election Statutes and you too will have a better understanding of Florida elections and be educated to defuse those that just enjoy creating doubt.

The first article is about corrupt officials wh were convicted of buying vots, the other two detail potential problems with electronic voting machines. Maybe I missed something, but what do these have to do with voter purges?

Becky,
Keep the apples with the apples and the oranges with the oranges when gathering voter fraud information. You can’t compare Florida with other states when other states don’t have the same processes and laws as Florida.

Dear Becky; your humble shot to a solution of what..? You don’t get it yet? We had two fair and well conducted elections and the GOP lost and in good terms for trying really hard to suppress voters rights, to adamantly and inhumane public displays against immigrants illegal and legal, against women’s right to choose and the invasion of their private parts thru their legislations, against gays, against minorities, against workers and their unions, against the millions of American without health insurance, trying to reduce benefits and privatize Social Security, pushing for education and our postal services privatization and a myriad of more feudal proposals. The was not mishap, no fraud they/you lost fair and square. Can anyone believe that GOP will win just with the wealthy voters and their still pathetic rhetoric and legislation?
Better read the writing in the wall for 2014 and 2016.

Ahhhh. . . and NOW we have an argument for more of the fraud called “hanging chad”. . . amazing! Exactly how are hand counted paper ballots PROVEN to be more accurate? Where would the money come from to “pay” people to do the counting, and recounting? What does that have to do with the original question of accurate voter registration?

Just amazing that having/showing an ID is voter intimidation! If for what ever reason one does not have a valid ID in 2013 one should not be able to vote. As for those who say why do we not see more people being charged or prosicuted for voter fraud as a reason there is none my answer is how can you go after someone if you cant prove who they are as they have NO valid ID?????

Did you know that before the Governor requested the voter lists be cleaned up before the last election that there were roughly 129,000 DEAD people on those roles?

I’ve some questions for our SOE here in Flagler County. I’ve seen your lists and what concerns me is the large number of people registered at some addresses here in the county. In some cases, there may be as many as 11 0r 12 people listed at one address. I’ve seen cases where people are registered in vacant lots and at their place of employment, both illegal.

And when working the polls, I watched our SOE approve someone to vote here with a Miami drivers license, also illegal.

However, even with all these things taken into consideration, no one is to be turned away from the polls. In the worst case, a provisional ballot may be cast while the matter is straightened out. The law is on the side of the voter.

I work the polls and disagree with you Genie. We have on of the best SOE’s in the state! In training she infatically instructs us poll workers to only accept a valid FL drivers license. Our SOE is out on Election Day and does not work the polls, she over sees what we do, and never hesitates to speak up to support the law to ensure voting here in Flagler County is fair and correct. When I work during early voting there are postings as to what ID is acceptable all over the place, and when I get mailings from the SOE they always state a valid ID is required to vote and has Florida Drivers License on the list. I know I’m not the only voter that gets mailings….do you read yours?

The SOE has no control over how many people live in a household and are registered to vote at that address. It s the voter is responsible for keeping their voter record current. The SOE registers the voter at the address that is put on their registration application. The SOE also cannot remove deceased voters from the rolls unless the proper laws and process is followed. Since you Genie have already posted misinformation, I’m inclined to believe you are misinformed about how mand dead people are registered to vote. I won’t become concerned until I see dead people actually are voting.

The SOE also works the Property Appraiser to ensure here are no registered voters registered at vacant lots and at businesses. I would challenge you to give one example of a voter being registered at a vacant lot or a business as you claim. When there is an address change the SOE requires us to call the office to make the change, and the change is not made unless it is for a vald address. If you have concerns about addresses and registered voters you need to contact the SOE or Darlene. I would be surprised if anything you have stated in your post can be proven.

Voter Suppression in Florida is rampant! This from the Palm Beach Post:

Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau

A new Florida law that contributed to long voter lines and caused some to abandon voting altogether was intentionally designed by Florida GOP staff and consultants to inhibit Democratic voters, former GOP officials and current GOP consultants have told The Palm Beach Post.

Republican leaders said in proposing the law that it was meant to save money and fight voter fraud. But a former GOP chairman and former Gov. Charlie Crist, both of whom have been ousted from the party, now say that fraud concerns were advanced only as subterfuge for the law’s main purpose: GOP victory.

Former Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer says he attended various meetings, beginning in 2009, at which party staffers and consultants pushed for reductions in early voting days and hours.

“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told The Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only. … ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’ ” Greer said he was told by those staffers and consultants.

There is simply too much evidence to paste it all here. Just “Google” voter suppression in Florida.

Some Conservatives will defend and rationalize anything that they think might give them an edge. It’s like watching Dinosaurs trying to fend off their extinction by trampling anything in their runaway path…sad really. The concern is, what damage could they leave in their wake that might endanger innocent bystanders.

And there are many posting here who believe it is their way or the highway. Please remember that we are a versatile society. The personal insults are amazing. It seems we cannot discuss anymore. We must put others down.

@Genie says– “And there are many posting here who believe it is their way or the highway.” Really? And just what do you think the point of this article is? Voter purges based on demands made on prospective voters by people who would (if we allow them to get away with it) say DO IT MY WAY OR YOU DON’T GET TO VOTE…in other words, “Do everything the way I tell you to do it, in minute and excruciating detail, or HIT THE HIGHWAY!” Now, THAT is an insult! Please remember we are a versatile society? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!. Versatility and diversity are, in fact, what these Neo-conservatives are most afraid of…It is what has cost them the last two elections and they know it. That is why they are trying to stack the deck. Now, THAT is sad…and, given that their actions are geared towards oppressing the most basic rights of others, I think they deserve to be put down.

Sorry if I got off track from the topic to keep the voter rolls cleaned up. Google it? You have to realize how news stories are aggregated in search engines. Just because there are multiple stories on the first few pages doesn’t mean there aren’t just as many stories that slant in the opposite direction out there. And you have to remember that Google is not apolitical. I have done extensive research on voter suppression and voter fraud, as this is something I am very passionate about. I don’t believe or trust Jim Greer anymore than I would trust Bill Clinton. It’s wisdom not to follow a liar or a thief as you won’t know where he is taking you or what he is stealing from you. Dems play dirty politics just as well or not better than GOP. For every bad thing you can point to supposedly or factually by GOP, I can point to Dem mischief as well. It does no good to play the blame game. We all should want clean and fair elections. People had 10 days to vote. Is there a large cost factor to keeping polls open more than the 10 days before an election? People can also vote absentee. It’s a responsibility to vote, and you bear some of the responsibility to arrange your schedule to take advantage of ample access to the polls. Republicans had to stand in line too. Also, no amendment legislation, or local bond/tax legislation should be on ballot in Presidential elections. The forms were too long. People can make an effort to get to the polls during other elections for that. Uniform voting laws would be nice as well if we could get states to agree wout getting the Federal Gov involved. Vote fraud in one state affects ALL states in National elections. And just for a little info if anyone is interested…here is another example of weird laws effecting votes and contributing to possible fraud. But he’s a ousted Dem so maybe he has a grudge too. .http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/18/ousted-dems-campaign-manager-calls-for-vote-fraud-investigation/