the soldiers returning from iraq who are blogging about their adventures are revealing that we've lost the hearts and minds of the iraqi people . . . and abu ghraib was the dagger that killed our efforts. there are educated iraqis who now believe that the U.S. set up the whole 9/11 thing to use it as an excuse to invade iraq. our failures in our treatment of iraqi prisoners has doomed us in iraq.<br><br><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>there are educated iraqis who now believe that the U.S. set up the whole 9/11 thing to use it as an excuse to invade iraq. our failures in our treatment of iraqi prisoners has doomed us in iraq.<p><hr></blockquote><p>shoooo...good thing there wasn't a "moving picture" that would insinuate such a thing. It might win an award as a "Documentary" or something.<br><br><br><br><br>got to let your eyes adjust

NOW with bill moyers is where i saw it and it was an american soldier who joined right after 9/11 who was saying this.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>MURPHY: They were. But there's so much more to do. Akram was happy that Saddam was gone. But at the same time, he was upset that the United States had made lots of promises about rebuilding their country and we hadn't fulfilled the promises. And he can't leave his house with his family.<br><br>I still contact with him over email. He feels unsafe in the streets. At least he says at least under Saddam he felt safe in the streets.<br><br>BRANCACCIO: What about this key controversial issue? Does he feel that you were an occupier?<br><br>MURPHY: He does. And the news they get is very anti-American. It's paranoid.<br><br>BRANCACCIO: Give me an example of what they're hearing.<br><br>MURPHY: One of the prevalent things in the Arab media is that the United States had a hand in September 11th. And even educated Iraqis, I've heard this, that the United States knocked down the Twin Towers, to justify its invasion of Iraq.<br><br>And it boggles my mind, that they could possibly believe that. But it's a problem, when those sorts of ideas are accepted by educated people.<br><br>BRANCACCIO: You even have to have this conversation with someone like your translator friend.<br><br>MURPHY: Yeah. And he's a very intelligent person, speaks excellent English. But they are so… they don't trust the United States. And it's frustrating as a soldier on the ground there, to try to bridge that gap of trust.<p><hr></blockquote><p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript338_full.html">transcript here</a><br><br><a href="http://optruth.org/main.cfm">more non-partisan reading here from the soldiers</a><br><br><br>--<br>one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. -Plato

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>MURPHY: One of the prevalent things in the Arab media is that the United States had a hand in September 11th. And even educated Iraqis, I've heard this, that the United States knocked down the Twin Towers, to justify its invasion of Iraq.<br><br>And it boggles my mind, that they could possibly believe that. But it's a problem, when those sorts of ideas are accepted by educated people.<p><hr></blockquote><p>That's what I said... Perfect example of the power of propaganda. <br><br><br>got to let your eyes adjust

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>there are educated iraqis who now believe that the U.S. set up the whole 9/11 thing to use it as an excuse to invade iraq<p><hr></blockquote><p> <br><br>I've seen some documentaries that have some questions about some very peculiar events of that day. I'm not saying I believe any of it, but I can see how someone who wanted to believe it could. <br><br>Here's a clip from In Plane Site<br><EMBED SRC="http://idisk.mac.com/mikeleboeuf/Public/911 - In Plane Site.mp4", WIDTH=200, HEIGHT=150 CONTROLLER=TRUE AUTOPLAY=FALSE><br><br>

there are educated iraqis who now believe that the U.S. set up the whole 9/11 thing to use it as an excuse to invade iraq<br><br>Yeah, but educated where and by whom? <br><br>[color:red]C'mon...you know me.</font color=red>

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