Well said. I guess what really rankles with me is this idea that Batman is indisputably worthy of solo movies, whereas Superman - the supposed king of the genre - can't even get to Movie #2 without the Bat getting all up in his grill.

Indeed; it just further proves that there's this double standard against the hero that doesn't seemingly apply to Batman.

People can say all they want that maybe Batman won't be a second protagonist in this film, and that may be true, but the fact that it's the freaking Batman won't change the presence that he'll have on this film, intentional or not.

I've seen people say on how it makes sense for Batman to be in Superman's story, but never the other way around for some reason.

At the end of the day, no matter how Batman is written into the story, Superman got the short end of the stick and nothing can really prove that to be false.

i don't think thats there reasoning they just dont want to miss the boat on a justice league film again they let nolan do his trilogy and now bale is gone they lost their chance there with bale as batman didn't help returns underperformed

It's a shame that they couldn't have gotten MOS off the ground after TDK debuted and release TDKR after a JL film was released. That way, there would be no need to have Batman inserted into MOS 2 in order to reintroduce Batman to the audience.

^ So implicitly, a JL movie must be important. If ONE compromised trilogy spins off many good stand-alone trilogies, I'll accept that sacrifice.
But if there can be many cohesively molded films without studio mandates, that would be even better.

I had the same mixed mindset as most people initially, but the more I think about it, the more I like this approach that DC is going for. It's a distinct take on the idea of a shared cinematic universe compared to Marvel's assembly line movie style, i.e., one major character film after the other, with a post-credit stinger that advertises another major character/film or sequel that builds up to a larger tent-pole film.

Snyder has said this long overdue crossover is effectively the sequel to Man of Steel; from what it sounds like, Batman was just woven into the narrative, and that idea is starting to grow on me. I personally see no issue with bringing Batman on board the MoS follow up. Especially if Batman is written well and integrated in the story that follows Man of Steel in an interesting way. Plenty of potential.

Plus, DC's basically killing two birds with one stone here. If there's one thing about Batman on film, it's that we really don't need to see his origin story again. We get it, yeah? By writing Batman into the storyline that continues where Man of Steel left off, DC is getting their Superman sequel AND bringing in the the post-Nolan take on Batman (which I've always thought would be a feat), all the while establishing their shared cinematic universe. I guess that's more like three birds, but either way, I kind of like that approach better. It makes the world seem bigger since DC has basically established that major characters can show up in another character's film right from the get-go. No need to wait for a stringer after the credits, or another film. I'm glad they're not aping Marvel's style in this regard.

I still feel like the definitive Superman origin movie has yet to be made. At least the next Superman reboot will not be in the shadow of the Donnerverse (which has pretty much taken over the idea of what a Superman movie should be in the eyes of some, including many critics) It can be a clean slate next time. And the CGI will be undetectable by the time it happens!

Not exactly! they downgraded superman to make the presence of the JL credible but they went too far and the fans flipped about it so they did a 180 and upped the ante on superman in season 2 giving him staring roles in twilight, a better world and hereafter.

Oh well, maybe in 20 years from now we'll get a great stand alone trilogy involving Superman.

A movie is only compromised when it is bad. If the new movie as MoS in the title and it's a good movie then that's all that matters. If there is no 'MoS' in the title then it's not a sequel in which case MoS 2 will still be on the cards at a later date (after WF).

MOS 2 is what SHOULD have happened after MOS 1, not WF's imho given where Superman was left at the end of MOS.

IF Superman was fully formed in his role by the end of MOS, I"d say, go for a WF. But he was not. Steve Rogers was already fully formed in his captain America gig before he arrived in the Avengers. And Thor was fully formed as the Asgardian Prince/Warrior before the Avengers as well.

And honestly, it's not a given that they'll be able to get Amy and Henry back for every time they go about making a film involving the characters within the foreseeable future.

As I've said before, the only people that I can see caring about this announcement are Batman fans, not superman only fans.

MOS 2 is what SHOULD have happened after MOS 1, not WF's imho given where Superman was left at the end of MOS.

IF Superman was fully formed in his role by the end of MOS, I"d say, go for a WF. But he was not. Steve Rogers was already fully formed in his captain America gig before he arrived in the Avengers. And Thor was fully formed as the Asgardian Prince/Warrior before the Avengers as well.

And honestly, it's not a given that they'll be able to get Amy and Henry back for every time they go about making a film involving the characters within the foreseeable future.

As I've said before, the only people that I can see caring about this announcement are Batman fans, not superman only fans.

If you think about, the inclusion of batman in the sequel is necessary. The events in MOS cant be ignored especially by a character like batman. He is a very distrustful character and thus will view superman as a threat to humanity that should be neutralized.

If you think about, the inclusion of batman in the sequel is necessary. The events in MOS cant be ignored especially by a character like batman. He is a very distrustful character and thus will view superman as a threat to humanity that should be neutralized.

That may be, but they could have easily done that arc with someone like Lex, or even bring in someone like Amanda Waller from Checkmate to investigate things.

They could have saved the whole Batman is distrustful of Superman arc for their meeting in the JL film.

Since Wonder Woman is not getting a solo film before the JL film supposedly, they could have introduced Batman in that film instead.

Batman's presence alone disrupts the quality of the franchise and threatens to really put a shadow over the character. Superman may be allowed to topple any foe but when he goes up against Batman, he cannot and will not be allowed to win that fight due to DC's bias attitude towards the issue.

I really don't think anyone really understands how bad the situation is right now. This film could literally kill off most of the respect that Superman got from MOS and before anyone responds with...well Goyer and Snyder wouldn't undo their hard work from MOS...well I'd counterattack that by saying that the only things that Goyer and Snyder care about are getting their paychecks from Warner Bros. and making a good film regardless of who's portrayed bad or not, along with the fact that they care about Batman first, over Superman any day of the week (proven fact by interviews)

I think it's too early to say that he 'disrupts the quality of the franchise.' They can still incorporate Batman and have it still be a proper, character-driven Superman movie.
However, it would have to involve making Batman a minor character who isn't likeable at first. Also, their natural love for the Batman character might override their intentions.

I honestly feel like Superman:TAS did a lot of stuff right, it just didn't have the "organic" quality of BTAS because the creators liked the Knight more. This becomes especially obvious in the "World's Finest" episode.

I think it's too early to say that he 'disrupts the quality of the franchise.' They can still incorporate Batman and have it still be a proper, character-driven Superman movie.
However, it would have to involve making Batman a minor character who isn't likeable at first. Also, their natural love for the Batman character might override their intentions.

I honestly feel like Superman:TAS did a lot of stuff right, it just didn't have the "organic" quality of BTAS because the creators liked the Knight more. This becomes especially obvious in the "World's Finest" episode.

It was even said by the producers in the video commentary that they had a hard time writing for superman, let alone picking his villains and how they found Batman to be more interesting.

Given the fact that they're still writing this thing, I'm hoping that they'll get word that there's quite a group of people that aren't obsessed with Batman that aren't actually happy about Superman having to share his film with Batman, let alone worried that Superman is going to be crucified by the knight

It was even said by the producers in the video commentary that they had a hard time writing for superman, let alone picking his villains and how they found Batman to be more interesting.

Given the fact that they're still writing this thing, I'm hoping that they'll get word that there's quite a group of people that aren't obsessed with Batman that aren't actually happy about Superman having to share his film with Batman, let alone worried that Superman is going to be crucified by the knight

Stalemate is the only way to go. Though I would like it if Superman destroys Batman's armor and "wins" even though he's holding back, but I know that won't happen. I just want to see all the fan complaints by the Bat-trolls

The only thing I worry about is if having Batman overshadows any villains they may have. That Batman is more important and billed before any villainous characters. I am actually really looking forward to seeing a new and unexplored villain on the big screen. We have yet to see Darkseid, Doomsday, Braniac and Metallo. These could all make for epic villains. The former three being supervillains and the latter being just a villain. It was cool to see Zod in a new light and the great action scenes that we got, but we have seen him before.

What I don't want is it to become a Superman and Batman show where they go head-to-head with Luthor trying to take him down. That would frankly bore me and to me would be a waste of a Superman movie.

The only thing I worry about is if having Batman overshadows any villains they may have. That Batman is more important and billed before any villainous characters. I am actually really looking forward to seeing a new and unexplored villain on the big screen. We have yet to see Darkseid, Doomsday, Braniac and Metallo. These could all make for epic villains. The former three being supervillains and the latter being just a villain. It was cool to see Zod in a new light and the great action scenes that we got, but we have seen him before.

What I don't want is it to become a Superman and Batman show where they go head-to-head with Luthor trying to take him down. That would frankly bore me and to me would be a waste of a Superman movie.

Yes. It would. Set up Batman in his world, and have Batman eventually come to understand that Luthor's responsible for it all during their violent encounter, with Clark claiming to have been set up. Knowing that Clark has a better understanding of Lex as a person and is an inherently more powerful figure, he leaves Metropolis, knowing that at this point there's nothing he can do to help Supes, and has some guilt for misjudging him.

This can set-up a team-up film while allowing MOS2 to build upon the first movie, rather than forcing the team-up film into MOS.

I don't want a final team up battle. It would be anticlimactic, and feel like another movie shoehorned into MOS2.

It could help development of Superman, hamper development of Clark Kent.

I think this is a good thing, though. I felt like MOS was development of Clark Kent with an explosive introduction of Superman at the end. If anything, who he is as Superman is what I feel like needs to be developed more. He needs to truly become the savior of Metropolis.