I was looking at the list, do the DT770s pros really have a bigger soundstage than open headphones like AD700, K701 and HD598? I was looking at some of the reviews of the DT770 pros and I didn't see anyone mention anything special about the soundstage.

Not at all. It has a large soundstage for a closed headphone. It still doesnt touch the soundstages of those you mentioned. However, it's imaging and positional cues are extraordinary, IIRC. Too bad there's too much bass bloat.

Soundstage is the virtual space all these cues inhabit. I say positional cues for gaming in virtual surround because it seems easier to understand in a gaming perspective (where enemies are located, etc), and imaging otherwise (I use the term imaging when talking about cues in a stereo feed, like when listening to music and picking out where instruments are located, etc). Sorry for the confusion.

So for me:

Positional cues: sound cues in virtual surround, usually for gaming/movies
Imaging - sound cues in stereo, usually in music
Soundstage: the space all sound inhabits in/around your head

That being said, the MA900 has some of the best stereo imaging I've ever heard. Some cues project pretty far out, which to me is rare, regardless of headphone. Stereo feeds tend to always sound in my head for the most part.Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 8/22/13 at 10:17pm

Other people around here seem to treat positional cues and imaging as the same thing. Guess we're left playing the semantics game again...

Regardless, the point has been made that larger soundstages don't always equate to precise positional cues/imaging within that soundstage, for whatever strange reason that may be. Some people on these forums have been known to prefer headphone models with smaller soundstages than the usual open ones we discuss here because they find the imaging and positional cues to be superior.

Since audio is mostly subjective, I don't think anyone's going to completely agree there. All we can do is say what works and doesn't work for us while figuring out what may suit a person whose tastes differ from our own.

Well, that's because imaging and positional cues ARE essentially the same thing. I'm mainly referring to how *I* use the terms. To me, it doesn't sound right calling instrument placement in music as positional cues. Positional cues sounds like something you expect out of video games or movies. Like "Hey, I totally heard that you were behind me because these headphones have a great ability to pinpoint positional cues". Imaging just doesn't fit for me. It's also a lot easier to understand for those who don't know the audio jargon. Positional audio cues is pretty self explanatory. Imaging isn't.

Imaging does fit for me when speaking of music and instrument placement.

Imaging also sounds more legitimate as you're listening to a headphone's cues at default in stereo, no extra processing. Positional cues will be altered by virtual surround, etc, so I can't consider a headphone's imaging to be gauged when using virtual surround. So for that, I make a clear distinction in that a headphone's positional cue accuracy is either good/bad when using virtual surround...

To make it easy for you guys, I NEVER say imaging unless I'm referring to music on this guide.Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 8/22/13 at 11:26pm

In that case, I'll adopt your practice just to minimize confusion around here.

After all, a lot of people here test headphone imaging through music alone, talking about how much it resembles having the band on stage before them.

I've always looked for positional cues in games first and foremost when evaluating that sort of thing. The question I always ask is something like "Can you shoot someone through a wall just by listening to his footsteps?", which most likely isn't what they're thinking at all.

The TH-900 is too beautiful, it sings to me. I can be astonished by the HD 800s imaging and technical capabilities but the TH-900 sings, has euphonics and it images excellent. The stage is smaller than the Sennheiser but I am very sure nobody would complain. If I had to choose one it would be the Fostex.

I'll be making a price suggestion for the K712 now. Trying to bring it down to 500. Daman, the Annies are 489 in your county. You always have the better prices.