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Yeah, I think you really need to play the actual world bits to get a decent impression of the game - if you're playing the tutorial bits for the very first time it's tedious, stupid, and boring. Afterwards, the only shitty part of the tutorial that remains is the screwed up art and the terrible UI/controls. Not minor, but still.

Without knowing what comes after, though, just looking at the first town, it's not as good as Div 2 (no console, no Dark Souls). Div 2 had a more polished world, a more alive world. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff in KoA but a lot of it simply feels amateur, in major part but not wholly due to the crappy visuals/controls. I'd say it's better than Two Worlds 2, but then I thought that game was simply so mediocre in every way, and was amateur in execution. Here the combat could possibly get fun after a few levels depending on how they've designed the creatures and hwo hard Hard is.

Nope, I couldn't go on. I was having a headache because of the camera, for real. The UI and all the obligatory non-skippable tutorial bits made it take too long as well, even though I skipped everything I could. I thought I was nearing the end but then they wanted me to learn about magic as well so I just alt-f4'd.

Since everyone speaks so dearly about the post-tutorial bit then maybe I should give it another try.

Yes, watching this thread I almost got a heart attack. I mean, the same people who told that Deus Ex: HR would be japanese weaboo fest because main character had something of a spiked hair. Same people who are now lapping up this mutated child of World of Warcraft. How the times have changed.

An ARPG that takes the KoA formula and adds dangerous enemies to it will be a masterpiece.

Nope, I couldn't go on. I was having a headache because of the camera, for real. The UI and all the obligatory non-skippable tutorial bits made it take too long as well, even though I skipped everything I could. I thought I was nearing the end but then they wanted me to learn about magic as well so I just alt-f4'd.

Since everyone speaks so dearly about the post-tutorial bit then maybe I should give it another try.

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Okay, that's laying it on a bit thick... If you skip past all of the cutscenes and opt out of all the dialogues on the first choice then the tutorial area is maaaaaybe fifteen minutes long. Probably not even that.

By 'action games' you mean arcade beat'em ups? There's a reason that 'much of the depth' in those games come from combos... it's because that's all there is in those games. Not sure why you want to conflate two different genres.

I was actually pretty impressed with the feel of the game. Combat has the flow later Fables should have, and looking through the skill sets it'd be easy to differentiate characters, provided you aren't leveling obscenely high. I'm looking forward to this now.

I thought that ARPG's where a different kind EXACTLY for having skill based attacks instead of combos...

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It's a flawed line of thinking because it denies ARPGs the most fun part of action games. There are ways to combine the combat of action games with an RPG-style character progression system without making this sacrifice. KoA shows one such way.

I mean action games. Beat 'em ups is a term mainly used to refer to isometric sidescrollers like Final Fight, Streets of Rage and Double Dragon. I'm talking about games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden.

There's a reason that 'much of the depth' in those games come from combos... it's because that's all there is in those games.

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That's not true. Studying the AI patterns is just as important. No matter how good your execution is, you'll get your ass kicked on your first playthrough of any action game simply because you don't know what to expect from enemies.

Not sure why you want to conflate two different genres.

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I want ARPGs to borrow the best from both action games and RPGs. The action genre went beyond mindless button mashing years ago. ARPGs should do the same.

I mean action games. Beat 'em ups is a term mainly used to refer to isometric sidescrollers like Final Fight, Streets of Rage and Double Dragon. I'm talking about games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden.

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The fuck is a isometric sidescroller ?

The best advertising plant ever said:

Fuck you. Fuck you all. I hope you die in a fire. I hope dogs piss on your grave. You fucking cunts. You have nothing better to do than troll all day? You no-life assholes, I steal art assets from the rich to give to the poor. I'm like the fucking Robin Hood of strategy games. You retarded little shits.

Yes, watching this thread I almost got a heart attack. I mean, the same people who told that Deus Ex: HR would be japanese weaboo fest because main character had something of a spiked hair. Same people who are now lapping up this mutated child of World of Warcraft. How the times have changed.

An ARPG that takes the KoA formula and adds dangerous enemies to it will be a masterpiece.

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This isn't 2002 anymore. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN

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I don't get this kind of butthurt. The DX:HR bit aside, it's not like anyone's saying the game is actually good as a whole. Everybody, me included, presumably expected it to be more awful shit with no redeeming qualities. Surprisingly though, it's an arpg with pretty decent combat (by arpg standards), a functional character system, a relatively open world, and no bits that are so absolutely fucking awful as to make it immediately unplayable. Whether the decent parts actually persist in the full game or it devloves into utter shit is yet to be seen, but for now the reaction is basically "Not as bad as we thought".

I mean srsly, your rage would be better spent on that 50 page Skyrim thread.

Let's Read Freesia, where you are the last thing holding a schizophreniac's mind together. And rape.

I mean action games. Beat 'em ups is a term mainly used to refer to isometric sidescrollers like Final Fight, Streets of Rage and Double Dragon. I'm talking about games like Devil May Cry, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden.

Gothic. No mindless button mashing there. But let's get to what's really going on here...

You're an anime fan, fair enough. As such you have a proclivity to the Japanese style of 'action games' (*cough* beat-em-ups). What you really want is a J-ARPG. You seem to think that's the only way you can have good combat in an ARPG and that simply isn't the case.

Gothic. No mindless button mashing there. But let's get to what's really going on here...

You're an anime fan, fair enough. As such you have a proclivity to the Japanese style of 'action games' (*cough* beat-em-ups). What you really want is a J-ARPG. You seem to think that's the only way you can have good combat in an ARPG and that simply isn't the case.

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Hmm. I don't know, I would have thought the "Japanese style of action games" has been pretty much Americanized by now, by the likes of Mortal Kombat (a game made by two white guys).

Alternative to what? 'Combos?' As already mentioned: something like Gothic or Die By the Sword (granted it isn't an ARPG). A system based on timing, blocking, and dodging and not simply chaining attacks in Guitar Hero fashion.

Edited to add: Dark Souls is another example. The combat in that game is not based around chaining combos but defensive posturing, evading attacks, and making your own attack at an opportune time.

Gothic. No mindless button mashing there. But let's get to what's really going on here...

You're an anime fan, fair enough. As such you have a proclivity to the Japanese style of 'action games' (*cough* beat-em-ups). What you really want is a J-ARPG. You seem to think that's the only way you can have good combat in an ARPG and that simply isn't the case.

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Hmm. I don't know, I would have thought the "Japanese style of action games" has been pretty much Americanized by now, by the likes of Mortal Kombat (a game made by two white guys).

What's the alternative, then?

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I'd assume the alternative would be to have more deliberate, slow-paced and "realistic" melee combat - take Gothic, Dark Souls, or most notably Blade of Darkness as examples. I don't think this was ever really done in a pure action game though.

Man, I wish someone could make another Blade of Darkness. Would be hilarious to see Dark Souls fanboys complain about the combat being too hard.

Let's Read Freesia, where you are the last thing holding a schizophreniac's mind together. And rape.

Except I'm not. The avatar's from an RPG. A Japanese one, certainly, but that doesn't make me an anime fan. Anime fans watch anime, and I don't.

As such you have a proclivity to the Japanese style of 'action games' (*cough* beat-em-ups).

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I have a fondness for Japanese action games because barely anyone else makes action games. America and Europe are all about shooters. Sure, there's God of War, there's Heavenly Sword, but they aren't particularly good, and they're heavily influenced by Japanese games anyway.

What you really want is a J-ARPG. You seem to think that's the only way you can have good combat in an ARPG and that simply isn't the case.

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MaroonSkein said:

There are ways to combine the combat of action games with an RPG-style character progression system without making this sacrifice. KoA shows one such way.

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Piranha Bytes games are another way. The Souls games are yet another one.

The action genre went beyond mindless button mashing years ago. ARPGs should do the same.

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And... as I said, ARPGs have already 'caught up.' The ones that have just don't use the 'combo' style you're looking for. The ones that haven't are just mediocre to poor games. Fable 1 wouldn't be made any more challenging by having combo attacks.