well then, how about we take on roy hibbert? then we'd have a legitimate defensive minded center (and yes i realize hes not doing so hot right now). JV would unfortunately have to come off the bench.

Not on the contract he is on right now. I'd take JV over Hibbert, because JV has been playing 200% better than him over the past 2 months. You definitely can't teach height, but you can teach offence. I do not want a 7 footer who shoots ~45% in the paint and consistently statistically disappears to be on this Raptors team. At least JV grabs boards and plays solid defence when he isn't called upon on offence, or if he is struggling.

I also do not like the way that Hibbert has been handling this adversity that will likely be knocking the Pacers out of the Playoffs tomorrow.

JV got charged with a DUI, and the next day, had one of the best games of his young career. That is how you overcome adversity. That's the type of toughness the Raptors need. At the same time, JV was accountable for it.

I know this may be a bit controversial but I think the Raptors have proven that they're the best team in the NBA from Canada

Not on the contract he is on right now. I'd take JV over Hibbert, because JV has been playing 200% better than him over the past 2 months. You definitely can't teach height, but you can teach offence. I do not want a 7 footer who shoots ~45% in the paint and consistently statistically disappears to be on this Raptors team. At least JV grabs boards and plays solid defence when he isn't called upon on offence, or if he is struggling.

I also do not like the way that Hibbert has been handling this adversity that will likely be knocking the Pacers out of the Playoffs tomorrow.

JV got charged with a DUI, and the next day, had one of the best games of his young career. That is how you overcome adversity. That's the type of toughness the Raptors need. At the same time, JV was accountable for it.

JV > Hibbert anyday.

You get rebounding AND offensive game. And Lately, JVs defense has been good. Not great, just good.

You get rebounding AND offensive game. And Lately, JVs defense has been good. Not great, just good.

Actually, I wonder how Jonas' offensive game would look on the current Pacers. If he gets passes out of rhythm 20 ft from the basket, what is he going to do? I think it would be pump fake, pump fake, pump fake, drive, travel. I guess Jonas could go back to just doing the dirty work and grabbing offensive boards. Then again, Hibbert was one of the best offensive rebounders in the league until that team fell apart in the middle of this season. It's easier to be an offensive rebounder when you have a clue how offense works and what your teammates might do and when. It's easier to play all aspects of offense when it's run by Kyle Lowry who's a leader and a communicator, as opposed to when it's run by Lance Stephenson.

I suspect if Jonas was on that team, we'd be calling him a bust right now.

They should change the coach and try this again. Maybe replace Lance too. But I'd give Lance another chance under a new coach, too much talent to just let go.

Actually, I wonder how Jonas' offensive game would look on the current Pacers. If he gets passes out of rhythm 20 ft from the basket, what is he going to do? I think it would be pump fake, pump fake, pump fake, drive, travel. I guess Jonas could go back to just doing the dirty work and grabbing offensive boards. Then again, Hibbert was one of the best offensive rebounders in the league until that team fell apart in the middle of this season. It's easier to be an offensive rebounder when you have a clue how offense works and what your teammates might do and when. It's easier to play all aspects of offense when it's run by Kyle Lowry who's a leader and a communicator, as opposed to when it's run by Lance Stephenson.

I suspect if Jonas was on that team, we'd be calling him a bust right now.

They should change the coach and try this again. Maybe replace Lance too. But I'd give Lance another chance under a new coach, too much talent to just let go.

Regardless of how Jonas' offence would be doing though, I don't think we'd be seeing the awful rebounding performances Hibbert's been putting up for the last 2-3 months.

Regardless of how Jonas' offence would be doing though, I don't think we'd be seeing the awful rebounding performances Hibbert's been putting up for the last 2-3 months.

Maybe. But how does one of the very best offensive rebounders over the last few years suddenly turn into a dud? Offensive rebounding is supposed to be Hibbert's strength. Now he's out of position much of the time or tipping those boards hell knows where. I think it's a combination of a mental collapse and an offense that's a mess and both misplaces him and makes it easy for defensive rebounders to set. I hope Jonas would be able to handle that toxic situation better, but then again, he's never been exposed to anything like it yet.

Anyway, I don't know how Jonas would perform in that situation, hopefully better. But the bigger point would be that there's every reason for them to be patient with Hibbert and try to fix the environment first.

The Pacers would be stupid to give up on George. Even if the trade was DD/TR/#1 for him they'd laugh at it. Even though the Pacers are down 3-2, George has been their best player.

The easiest fix is to remove the coach. If Hibbert continues to play awful next season I see him coming off the bench until they can make a trade happen that works for both teams.

To be fair on Hibbert, Atlanta was without question the worst possible matchup for him. They rely on ball movement and 3 point shots. Their starting C shoots 3s. They play a lot of small ball and all those guys shoot the 3. Only big off bench who doesn't shoot the 3 and he is playing just 14mpg down 5 from regular season.

To be fair on Hibbert, Atlanta was without question the worst possible matchup for him. They rely on ball movement and 3 point shots. Their starting C shoots 3s. They play a lot of small ball and all those guys shoot the 3. Only big off bench who doesn't shoot the 3 and he is playing just 14mpg down 5 from regular season.

Last year's Pacers would probably make Atlanta pay for it by Hibbert scoring 20 points a game against those lineups. But now they are a clusterfuck.

Actually, I wonder how Jonas' offensive game would look on the current Pacers. If he gets passes out of rhythm 20 ft from the basket, what is he going to do? I think it would be pump fake, pump fake, pump fake, drive, travel. I guess Jonas could go back to just doing the dirty work and grabbing offensive boards. Then again, Hibbert was one of the best offensive rebounders in the league until that team fell apart in the middle of this season. It's easier to be an offensive rebounder when you have a clue how offense works and what your teammates might do and when. It's easier to play all aspects of offense when it's run by Kyle Lowry who's a leader and a communicator, as opposed to when it's run by Lance Stephenson.

I suspect if Jonas was on that team, we'd be calling him a bust right now.

They should change the coach and try this again. Maybe replace Lance too. But I'd give Lance another chance under a new coach, too much talent to just let go.

Lol at Lance Stephenson running an offense. That dude needs a nickname more than anyone else in the league.

To be fair on Hibbert, Atlanta was without question the worst possible matchup for him. They rely on ball movement and 3 point shots. Their starting C shoots 3s. They play a lot of small ball and all those guys shoot the 3. Only big off bench who doesn't shoot the 3 and he is playing just 14mpg down 5 from regular season.

It's not just against Atlanta.. in his last 20 regular season games Hibbert has been averaging 8.7pg, 4.3rg on 37.4% FG. Those are awful numbers for a #1 center.

Last year's Pacers would probably make Atlanta pay for it by Hibbert scoring 20 points a game against those lineups. But now they are a clusterfuck.

planetmars wrote:

It's not just against Atlanta.. in his last 20 regular season games Hibbert has been averaging 8.7pg, 4.3rg on 37.4% FG. Those are awful numbers for a #1 center.

I agree on both posts.

Keep in mind what I said: Atlanta was without question the worst possible matchup for him.

Dude has been struggling. When you're struggling as a 7'2", 280lb C you don't want to go against a team with a C shooting 3s and taking you away from the hoop and your strengths. It is just a gigantic pile on. Things keep going from bad to worse.

Hawks is a terrible matchup for Pacers. They got 4s and a 5 that can shoot threes. That pulls David West and Hibbert out of the paint and allows Teague to attack and kick out to their 3 point shooters.

The other issue is that Pacers seem to have given leadership to PG and Lance as opposed to some of the veteran guys like Hill and West. PG and Lance are great players, but i don't think they're ready to lead yet. Lance is too much of a loose cannon who gets a bit carried away with the ball. Last season, the Pacers playoff success was a result of David West. He was basically the emotional and physical pillar of the team, which the rest of the guys fed off of. And that was why Pacers made it a priority to resign him. However, it looks like he's now relegated to a supporting role. George Hill was never a true point guard, but he has now turned into a Mario Chalmers type spot up shooter. He can't just turn up his offence when PG and Lance are in a funk, especially when he needs time to get into rhythm. He's lost the same aggressive he showed in last year's playoffs because he's much less involved than he used to.

Unless the Pacers somehow turn things around, you can be sure that Vogel is out next season.