A hipster Catholic musician, evangelical leaders and March for Life app? Welcome to the protest.

And those changes just skim the surface.

The March for Life, billed as the world’s largest anti-abortion event, is remaking itself in deeper ways as well, says Monahan.

For its first 40 years, the march was marshaled by Nellie Gray, an occasionally irascible Catholic who had little use for modern technology, political compromise or the mainstream media.

Gray died in her home office in 2012 at age 88. A short time later, Monahan was named her successor at the March for Life.

While abortion opponents praise Gray’s legacy, there’s a popular saying around the March for Life’s Washington headquarters: “We’re a brand-new, 41-year-old organization.”

The goal: to turn their annual, one-day demonstration into a potent political machine.

Abortion rights advocates say they’re skeptical that March for Life leaders can convince more Americans to join their cause. Since 1989, the percentage who want to overturn Roe has barely budged above 30%.

“It’s an impressive show,” Jon O’Brien, president of Catholics for Choice, says of the March for Life. “But at the end of the day, they have failed dramatically at their goal.”

With that in mind, here are six big ways the March for Life is changing this year:

1) 9 to 5

Since 1974, the March for Life has made a really loud noise every January 22, the anniversary of Roe. V. Wade.

Estimates of the crowd’s size vary, but it seems safe to say tens of thousands have attended the protest each year.

Organizers estimate that at least 50% of the marchers are under 18, as busloads of Catholic school kids descend on the capital from across the country.

But some abortion opponents complain the March for Life had morphed in recent years from a political demonstration to a photo op.

Ryan Bomberger, an anti-abortion activist who is speaking at march events, says the protest needs to find ways to harness its youthful energy throughout the year.

“You’ve got all these young people with energy and passion and the desire to do something about the injustice of abortion. But what do they do when they leave the march and go home?”

March for Life leaders want to turn its young protesters into citizen lobbyists, much like Tea Party partisans and the Obama campaign did with their troops.

The key to that, says March for Life's Chairman of the Board Patrick Kelly, is to keep them engaged throughout the year, including through social media. (More on that later.)

In addition to Monahan, an experienced Washington politico, the March for Life has beefed up its Washington office by hiring a full-time lobbyist and social media manager who will also lead outreach to evangelicals, a big and politically active constituency.

The focus this year will be combating the Obama administration’s contraception mandate, which requires most companies to provide free contraceptive coverage to employees. Abortion opponents say that some covered services are tantamount to abortion.

2) If You’ve Got the Money, We've Got the Time

For decades, the March for Life subsisted on a meager budget: Just $150,000 a year, according to tax filings from 2009-2011.

But new Washington offices, lobbyists and social media managers don’t come cheap. Fortunately for the March for Life, a donor who was a friend of Gray’s bequeathed $550,000 to the organization last year.

That, along with a more robust fund-raising campaign, has allowed the March to increase its budget from $252,000 when Monahan took over in 2012, to $780,000 this year.

“We are professionalizing the March for Life,” said Kelly.

3) With Arms Wide Open

Though various religious groups oppose abortion (many support abortion rights as well) the March for Life has come to be considered mainly a Catholic event.

Catholic clergy offer prayers, Catholic politicians make speeches and Catholic school kids fill out the rank-and-file.

Monahan says this year will different.

The March for Life has hired a full-time staffer devoted to bringing more Protestant evangelicals to the protest, and they hope to see that effort bear fruit this Wednesday.

They’ve tapped James Dobson, founder of the evangelical powerhouse ministry Focus on the Family, as a keynote speaker. Dobson and his adopted son, Ryan, will talk about adoption, an issue close to the heart of many evangelicals.

4) The Hardest Part

For the first time in its 41 years, the March for Life will focus on an issue besides abortion on Wednesday.

Through Dobson and other speakers, the march is also promoting the idea of “noble adoption” as an alternative to abortion.

“Adoption is a heroic decision for pregnant mothers who find themselves in a difficult situation,” says Monahan. “We want to eliminate the stigma of adoption and encourage women to pursue this noble option.”

The spotlight on adoption dovetails with new focus within the anti-abortion movement on crisis pregnancy centers, which urge women to carry their pregnancy to term.

Critics charge that the centers divulge false medical information about abortion and deceive unwitting patients into thinking they provide abortions, only to advise them otherwise. Supporters say they help women through financial assistance, counseling and adoption referrals.

5) Wish You Were Here

Despite the youth of many March for Life participants, the group’s website had been decidedly Web 1.0.

For the more technically advanced, the March has developed an app that connects to a 360-degree camera so folks can follow the protest from home. The app also has anti-abortion information, links to articles about adoption and tips for lobbying Congress.

“We have to find a way to take those boots on the ground and talk to them throughout the year,” says Kelly. “And with Facebook and Twitter and other social media we have the tools to do so.”

The March is also hoping for a high-profile social media endorsement on Wednesday: Monahan says she’s asked the Vatican to send a tweet from the Pope in support of the March for Life.

UPDATE: On Wednesday morning, Monahan got her papal tweet.

I join the March for Life in Washington with my prayers. May God help us respect all life, especially the most vulnerable

Imagine listening to politicians drone on for hours about their voting records in the chilly January air.

Fun, right?

Monahan didn’t think so either, so she’s trying to accomplish a minor miracle: limiting the speaking time of politicians at the pre-march rally.

Only a handful of politicians, including House Majority Leader Eric Canton, R-Virginia, and Rep. Dan Lipinski, D-Illinois, have been invited to speak. They’ve all been asked to keep their speeches to a just a few minutes.

“In past years our rally has gone on for two or three hours and people lost interest,” Monahan says.

So, instead of boring speeches, the rally this year will feature a live concert by Matt Maher, a Catholic singer-songwriter with a huge following among young Christians.

So, will all this make any difference?

Clearly, changes are afoot this year at the March for Life. But what effect, if any, will they have on the larger anti-abortion movement?

Not much, says Ziad Munson, a sociologist at Lehigh University and author of the book “The Making of Pro-life Activists.”

The March for Life hasn’t really been politically influential since the early 1990s, says Munson. Meanwhile, other abortion opponents, like Catholic bishops and National Right to Life Committee, have led the charge.

“In effect, what we’re seeing is a new organization within a movement, not a new approach,” he says. “I don’t think the March for Life is likely to make inroads that haven’t already been made.”

Monahan is more optimistic.

If the March can recruit even a slice of its youthful protesters into citizen activists, she says, it might be enough to tip the balance in a country deeply divided on the morality of abortion.

soundoff(1,983 Responses)

Calling all cats and dogs

Please, if you care, spay and neuter your humans.

January 22, 2014 at 7:35 pm |

Cherilyn B

Thanks for the laugh! By the time I was 19, I had decided not to have kids but I could not find a doc to sterilize me because they said I was too young and would change my mind. How paternalistic of them. I could have saved the $$$ that I have spent on birth control that has failed twice now plus the cost of the abortions. At age 25, I still do NOT want any kids and I am still looking for a doc to sterilize me. In the meantime, I am so glad to be able to get a safe & legal abortion if needed! I will always stand up for all women to have a choice! My body. My life. My choice.

January 22, 2014 at 9:32 pm |

What?

Wait, why can't you have a hysterectomy per your own request, or your tubes tied?

January 22, 2014 at 9:51 pm |

Liz the First

Most doctors won't perform a tubal ligation without the woman having kids first...too permanent. They generally won't do vasectomies on men without them having kids, either.

They'll never perform a hysterectomy on a woman unless it's medically necessary.

January 22, 2014 at 10:01 pm |

Ken Margo

As a man Please forgive my ignorance on the subject. Is having your tubes tied the same as sterilization? My sister in-law had her tubes tied after her only child was born when she was 18. She's now 47. No kids since.

January 22, 2014 at 9:55 pm |

rwcp

Yes tubal ligation is considered a form of permanent surgical sterilization

January 22, 2014 at 10:21 pm |

Cherilyn B

For a woman, having her "tubes tied" is the common term for sterilization. It is a simple procedure but no doctor I have asked so far will do it unless I am either married to a man who also does not want children or I already have kids. Rather defeats the purpose, I say.

January 22, 2014 at 10:28 pm |

Ken Margo

@Cher...............So you need a man in essence give you "permission" to get the procedure! Could you go south or north of the border to get it done.

January 22, 2014 at 10:39 pm |

Ken Margo

@Cher..........This is extreme. Could you get a niece or nephew or a male with the same last name to pretend? Or will the doc want proof.

January 22, 2014 at 10:43 pm |

Cherilyn B

Ken – Last summer, I had a consultation w an attorney. He said that I can't force a doctor to perform an elective sterilization. I found a gynecologist in Chicago that told me to come back when I am 30 years old. Very frustrating. Thanks for the suggestions.

January 22, 2014 at 11:10 pm |

Dandintac

My wife had her tubes tied, although her church tried to stop her and told her it was a sin. She was a Mormon at the time. Her Catholic girlfriend had her tubes cut and cauterized. My understanding is that if they are tied it's reversible (probably within a certain time span).

January 24, 2014 at 1:58 am |

Dandintac

Cherilyn, interesting reading about your travails with your personal reproductive choices. To me, this sort of thing is further evidence that the real issue is not "life"–it's about religion's obsession with controlling our se-xuality and reproduction. Too many people are viewing abortion in a vacuum (no pun intended)–without looking at the larger picture.

January 23, 2014 at 1:32 am |

WASP

@CHERILYN: yeah my mom had the same problem. she had two kids myself and my sister by the time she was 19. she wanted to get sterilized because she had her boy and girl, all the doctors refused because "she was too young and would want more later."

well she didn't want anymore yet, "the pill" failed 3 other times and now i'm the oldest of 5 kids. my mother never had an easy life trying to provide for us and you can see the struggle and pain of life ecthed into her face from working herself to the bone.
needless to say i love my mom for what she did for her children; i hate the doctors for not accepting what she wanted for herself.

her life, her choice, my fight now.

January 23, 2014 at 7:58 am |

Cherilyn B

Thank you both, WASP and Dan, for standing up for women. We all need to respect women and men in allowing them to decide when and, indeed, if at all to have children.

January 24, 2014 at 6:35 am |

Otis

I believe that life begins at conception. I also believe that life is cheap and people die all the time. As long as the fetus is terminated before the legal cut-off it should only be an issue to the mother and not the rest of us.

January 22, 2014 at 7:32 pm |

Life is cheap?

Really? It's the only thing any of us can truly say we have, and without that we don't have much including you.

January 22, 2014 at 7:38 pm |

BBM

Sick troll.

January 22, 2014 at 7:45 pm |

Barnes

Sick hypocrite troll.

January 22, 2014 at 7:46 pm |

Life is cheap?

Wait a minute, how does my appreciating my own survival equate to me being a sick troll exactly?

January 22, 2014 at 8:49 pm |

Barnes

BBM is a sicko. Ignore him.

January 22, 2014 at 9:09 pm |

In Santa we trust

Yes, life is cheap in a large part of the world. "Pro-life" really only means anti-abortion as the religious right are not active in the attempt to stop any other premature termination of life.

January 22, 2014 at 8:53 pm |

Life is cheap?

I suppose food not bombs, animal rescue, investors against genocide and all the other groups that happen to contain religious people as well as secular people are invalid just to support your point?

January 22, 2014 at 8:55 pm |

Ken Margo

@life..it's the religious ones that support repubs that don't want gun control, want to cut programs and are pro life. So yes religious people are gonna get it too.

January 22, 2014 at 9:06 pm |

In Santa we trust

Life, I'm sure some religious people are supporting those causes; my point was that they're not vocal on those issues as they are with their anti-abortion stance, they aren't introducing legislation to prevent those other causes of death and in the case of gun control, capital punishment, and foreign wars are doing the opposite.

January 22, 2014 at 9:20 pm |

Otis

Yep, Including me.

January 22, 2014 at 9:14 pm |

Logic.

You're intellectually honest, at least. Still, the stance you take is disturbing. Perhaps you've never loved someone and seen their true worth. (Love makes us SEE someone's worth, it doesn't GIVE it to them).

January 22, 2014 at 7:52 pm |

Ken Margo

Otis is right. We kill people everyday. Don't try to sound like you care now.

January 22, 2014 at 7:56 pm |

Nate

Why do you think he doesn't care about people being killed? Why do you say that his caring about it is a new thing?

January 22, 2014 at 8:33 pm |

Ken Margo

@nate......I said "don't try to sound like you care" I didn't say he didn't. He seemed shocked by the previous post. He shouldn't be.

January 22, 2014 at 8:48 pm |

Otis

Disturbing to you and maybe the only sociopathic bone in my body but I think a lot of other folks feel the same way. I would rather to put our resources into kids that have already been born and/or better chance. If I felt that all the aborted fetuses had a decent chance I might feel differently but I believe there are too many people on Earth already and to bring unwanted people into the world will only add to the problem. If we are overrun with dogs at cats at the shelters I am OK to terminate them too. At least with humans I am only OK to terminate them before they get to the point it is not legal.

January 22, 2014 at 8:44 pm |

Ken Margo

Thank you Otis. A man that deals with reality.

January 22, 2014 at 8:49 pm |

Life is cheap?

"I believe there are too many people on Earth already and to bring unwanted people into the world will only add to the problem"
Got any facts to back up your belief because when I look around me I see plenty of resources, it's only the distribution of them that is criminal, some are hoarding them that is the problem.

January 22, 2014 at 8:53 pm |

In Santa we trust

There's already a water crisis in a lot of the world. As populations continue to rise, the food situation will worsen – 20,000 people already die daily from starvation alone. Resources don't get more vital than food and water.

January 22, 2014 at 8:59 pm |

Ken Margo

@life.........................You answered your own question. Yes there is hoarding, unfortunately because of hoarding millions in this country go to bed hungry and those are the ones lucky enough to have a bed. Repubs want to cut/gut every program poor people need to survive. Why? Because we can't afford it! In other words not enough resources.

January 22, 2014 at 8:59 pm |

Reality # 2

Practicing safe -se-x eliminates the concern. See the previous comments about the Brutal Effects of Stupidity.

January 23, 2014 at 12:47 am |

Cherilyn B

I agree with Otis. QUALITY of life is more important than QUANTI-TY (ie population numbers.) The truth is, for any animal species the quality of life is inversely proportional to population numbers. At a certain tipping point, resources become scarce hence starvation and disease etc. weaken a group leading to a population crash which thins out the weakest and, ultimately, leads to a better quality of life for the survivors. Take a good look around. What would most benefit humans as a whole would be another pandemic like the flu in 1918. So, yes, life is cheap and people do die everyday but not enough. And, unfortunately, modern society & medicine supports too many weak links that ultimately weaken the gene pool.

January 22, 2014 at 10:13 pm |

WASP

@cherilyn: wanna get married? you are the first human female that i believe i could have a truthful conversation with and enjoy observing life.

i'm really serious; i find it difficult to interact with most people on an equal level. i'm viewed as odd or unfeeling for many of my more natural based views. lmfao

January 23, 2014 at 8:36 am |

Cherilyn B

Hi, WASP – I do not relate to nor understand people. What I have learned about them has not impressed me greatly. Objectively, I do not think I would make a good parent. I wonder if marriage has become obsolete and we just haven't realized it? So, it is not a goal of mine.

I live way out in the country by a lake with peac@cks, African geese, ducks, rabbits, turtles, two dogs and herd of deer. I am a biologist who is interested in animal behavior while working on my master's in genetics.

It is interesting to meet an intelligent human being; so few of them seem to have survived. I am happy to be your friend, WASP, but where do you want to meet to talk besides the Belief Blog?

January 24, 2014 at 7:10 am |

WASP

@cherilyn: i could pick your brain for hours based strictly on the observation you have seen of predator/prey interactions.
"marriage" has always been a ceremony, i believe mainly to insure the two parties involved weren't of blood relation during a time when villages were small and the art of geneology wasn't used yet.
(hint: on the marriage thing i was teasing.) i was married once, she cheated 3 times and poisoned me, so i'm not getting married ever again.

hmmmm the whole meeting elsewhere to chat is made more difficult by the fact it requires open release of information like my email on an open social media;.................................. Mrotserif1980@facebook.com
i always enjoy making friends, mainly ones i can have an equal conversation with.

January 24, 2014 at 7:22 am |

Cherilyn B

Hi, WASP – You are very brave to give your personal info out on a public forum. You should consider changing the name that you post under here. People don't realize that what they put out on the internet can come back to bite them professionally.

I am so antisocial that I am mostly clueless about social media like Facebook. Is the contact info you have given me a regular email address or do I have to join Facebook to use it?

I am sorry to hear about your viperous wife. Unfortunately, it is fairly common. I had a disastrous marriage. He had the hot body with endless muscles but he was dumb as a box of rocks. Skip the personal stuff... When I divorced him, he stalked me; he got drunk and tried to kill me and then tried to kill himself. I still do not trust anyone. But I have spent so much time alone with my animals learning how to communicate with them that I realize I miss talking to people.

I try to respect everyone's right to their world views and religious beliefs but I should tell you that much of what I have learned, such as with predator/prey relationships, have brought me to a perhaps agnostic but mostly atheist secularist viewpoint. Religion is interesting but I do not want to spend hours debating it.

I figured you had to be teasing about marriage. Friendship is fine. Intellectual conversation is fine. Everything else that I need, I already have.

Have a Good Day, WASP

January 24, 2014 at 3:44 pm |

Cherilyn B

Hello Again, WASP – Well, it is a relief that you are an atheist as I do not waste time on anyone preaching the gospel to me. I will try to email you later tonight. If it doesn't work, I will set up a Facebool account sometime this weekend. Til then stay warm. I do not know where you live but it is so bitterly cold here. Usually, I go for a walk in the woods but not today. Take Care!

January 24, 2014 at 11:46 pm |

WASP

hmmm i think you will have to set up an account to use that e-mail address. it would walk you to my page. i only get on here to debate religion while i'm bored at work. i'm atheist, so one of my twisted joys is seeing how people react to certain stimuli. religious people i have found have the most peculiar reactions, and vary in ranges sometimes based on depth of religious belief.
well hope to hear from you soon, take care. 🙂

January 24, 2014 at 4:15 pm |

Cherilyn B

Hey, for some reason my response is above you instead of below. I must have hit the wrong reply button.

January 24, 2014 at 11:50 pm |

Solon

Hallucinations are not proof or evidence supporting the bible or the existence of some god(s). They do, however, tend to prove that Austin is in need of professional mental health treatment.

January 22, 2014 at 7:06 pm |

Vic

Defamation of character is not an objective discourse, let alone offensive and abusive; alas, I see it a lot on this CNN Belief Blog.

January 22, 2014 at 7:35 pm |

Jen

It's the last resort of those who don't have an actual point to make.

January 22, 2014 at 7:41 pm |

Vic

Obviously.

January 22, 2014 at 7:47 pm |

Ken Margo

Those against abortion use the argument of when life "begins". Since no one cares when life "ends" does it matter when life begins?
We have 10,000 gun deaths a year, yet not one law has been changed/created.
We have people against healthcare reform! Over 30,000 people (a year) have died because of LACK of healthcare.
Wars have killed literally millions of civillians and soldiers.
The war on poverty has been a failure leading to greater numbers of hunger and homelessness.
If you give women that are considering abortion HOPE, real HOPE not imagined. You could cut down on abortions.

January 22, 2014 at 7:04 pm |

Jen

If you take away my gun I loose the ability to hunt for my food, I loose the ability to defend myself from an intruder, you will disempower me.

January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm |

Ken Margo

Don't be paranoid. I didn't say take anything. We could at the very least pass laws the limit those with mental heath issues from getting near a gun as one example. Background checks is another way.

January 22, 2014 at 7:52 pm |

Vic

Those laws are already in place. Raising awareness is imperative.

In the meantime, the true gun control is self control.

January 22, 2014 at 7:59 pm |

Ken Margo

If the laws are already in place, why are people getting shot? I work in NYC. The majority of guns used in crimes comes from Virginia and Florida. If we had federal gun laws you shouldn't be able to take guns over state lines. Vic proves guns mean more to some people than human life.

January 22, 2014 at 8:45 pm |

Lucifer's Evil Twin

'Lose'... once is a typo... twice is because you went to school in Georgia

January 22, 2014 at 7:56 pm |

Dandintac

Ken,

You touch on some interesting points. Life is actually an unbroken chain, going back to the first living, reproducing cell. I think it's an interesting question to ask–when is a person a person? In other words, when can it reasonably be claimed that a person is enti-tled to protection under the law–a legal person? I think the line should be drawn when we have a functioning brain. This occurs between 24-30 weeks into pregnancy–so it's already about where we draw the legal line now, but for different reasons (viability). Viability can shift with technology though, so I don't think that's a good standard.

If there's a functioning, human brain, possibly capable of consciousness, then I would agree it's immoral to terminate, and it should be legally protected. However, if not, then I think it should be left up to the parties immediately concerned (parents, and ultimately the mother) whether they wish to carry the baby to term.

We have no qualms (most of us) when it comes to pulling the plug on a brain dead relative. We recognize, with an living adult body–that when the brain goes, that's it. What makes the person a person–a human being, is gone. It is our brains that make us special, make us who we are, conscious, living, thinking beings. So if a brain is not yet developed, or developed enough to have measurable brain waves, it makes sense that it should not be counted as a legal person, protected by the law and recognized as such by society.

You also touch on a lot of the other issues that anyone who is truly "pro-life" should care a great deal about, but that's not what we see. We also don't see legions of "pro-life" people lining up to adopt black crack babies, or deformed or retarded children. There are a few, but not many.

The real question is, why should we give a fetus extra rights that no one gets after birth?

January 23, 2014 at 2:25 am |

Ken Margo

@Dan...........We need to look at when women have abortions. 90% occur in the first trimester. NOTHING IS DEVELOPED at that point. Abortions that occur late usually happen because the baby isn't viable or the mothers health is in jeopardy. Women that have late term abortions wanted to have the baby! The pro lifers are so crazy they want to remove a woman's choice under ALL circu mstances.(including ra pe)

January 23, 2014 at 4:18 pm |

Dandintac

Ken, this is part of why I believe the real issue behind the "pro-life" movement is not life at all–it's religion's obsession with human se-xuality and reproduction. They can't stand the thought of young women having se-x outside strict confines that they get to define for us, as well as their obsession with high birth rates to grow their churches.

January 24, 2014 at 2:02 am |

Solon

The christian god is imaginary, fake, man-made and a weakling.

Zeus is the real King of all gods.

January 22, 2014 at 6:48 pm |

Science Works

No Adam or sin either.

January 22, 2014 at 6:54 pm |

Logic.

You're purposely being obtuse. Do you get all your theology education on atheist websites?

January 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm |

Observer

Logic,

Many atheists and agnostics get their theology education from actually reading the Bible. That's usually enough.

January 22, 2014 at 8:12 pm |

Logic.

Contrary to popular belief, one cannot simply read the Bible straight through without any help and understand it. That's what exegetes are for.

How right you are! I am an agnostic atheist. No one can claim to know as a FACT because it can not be proven or disproven. I do however tend to lean towards atheism because with out proof I can not accept religious claim. I am open to the possibility that something outside of our ability to understand exists in some form. I find it impossible that any individual person or religion holds the truth of the matter. No religion can claim to have facts supporting their cause. No facts exist concerning the existence of god, his thoughts, word, commandments exc. Their claims are based on something other than fact. I can't accept that as truth.

I was raised in Catholic schools from kindergarten! I went to service every Friday in school, and most Sundays, took bible studies, had a confirmation, Sunday school....the whole nine. My grandparents were very religious. However when they died....my family became less and less and now we are not very religious at all. I was the first to openly question religion in my family at the age of 18. Some other members of the family are Athiest/Agnostic.

I hate how the religious act as if they are the only people enlightened enough to "understand" the Bible. As if anyone who isn't faithful couldn't have possibly been born into religion, educated in it, lived it for years, understand it's claims very well, and come to reject it's claims for lack of evidence. I spent the good majority of my youth on church property as a child. I had a good relationship with our priest. I volunteered for fundraisers and fish fry's. I absolutely understand the Bible, the Christian faith, the believers, who they are as people exc, and still lean towards atheism.

I think it takes a HUGE amount of arrogance to claim that one KNOWS the word of god. The absolute truth is that no one knows the word of god. No one can claim to know. No one has proof. To expect other people to live by your faith is ludicrous. Any one religion can not hold the truth. It's all speculation that requires faith to believe. Faith is fine so long as you don't expect other people to live by one which they do not choose for themselves.

January 23, 2014 at 2:20 pm |

Topher

Solon

"The deranged christian god murders newborn babies. What a sicko."

Ah, so if God, who as creator says when EVERY person dies, says a baby is to die, He's a sicko. But when man does it, it's good for population control and because no one can tell a woman what to do with her body.

Hypocrite.

January 22, 2014 at 6:45 pm |

Solon

Claiming your imaginary god is a "creator" is an Illogical, flawed argument .

Provide empirical evidence that your god exists and that your deranged god is a "creator".

8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

you are not ever excluded.

January 22, 2014 at 7:11 pm |

Solon

Your god stated that Adam would die the day he ate the forbidden fruit; he lived 930 years, according to myth.

And you expect to be taken seriously?

January 22, 2014 at 7:13 pm |

Vic

Mortals eventually die. When and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil they became mortals that day.

January 22, 2014 at 7:21 pm |

Vic

Mortals eventually die. When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil they became mortals that day.

January 22, 2014 at 7:23 pm |

Solon

Vic, comprehension problems?

Genesis 2:17 – But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Why didn't they die the day they ate from it? why 900 years later? Your god said they would die that day.

January 22, 2014 at 7:26 pm |

Science Works

Wow Vic so where does the fig leaf come in to play ?

January 22, 2014 at 7:30 pm |

Topher

Solon

"Why didn't they die the day they ate from it? why 900 years later? Your god said they would die that day."

Nope. Death entered the world that day. Before that, no disease, no death.

January 22, 2014 at 7:39 pm |

breathe deep

"Nope. Death entered the world that day. Before that, no disease, no death."

Since there would be no death, would that mean there would be no new life either? Surely you could see something wrong with a world of no death right?

January 22, 2014 at 11:06 pm |

breathe deep

But first, could you please follow the birth line of adam to joseph? Joseph would have to be adam's great great great great etc. nephew right?

January 23, 2014 at 2:29 am |

sam stone

You may not be lying, Austin, but you are delusional and unwilling to submit your "prophetic visions" to any sort of independent scrutiny

January 23, 2014 at 5:22 am |

sam stone

Right, gopher, no disease, no death until "sin" entered the world

Amazing that a thinking person would believe that tripe

Of course, we are talking about you

January 23, 2014 at 5:24 am |

Science Works

Vic and topher this should help ?

Smithsonian's Human Origins Program

http://humanorigins.si.edu/

January 23, 2014 at 7:06 am |

Topher

That's like a fish asking for proof of water. The Creation is proof of a Creator.

January 22, 2014 at 7:11 pm |

Solon

So, you offer no proof at all, no evidence; only unsubstantiated claims, fairy tales and riddles. Exactly what I expected.

January 22, 2014 at 7:14 pm |

Solon

There is not and has never been any proof; nothing about your imaginary god, bible or associated fairy tales has held up to even the slightest scrutiny and standards. It's only true to you because you want it to be, not because any evidence exists.

If you had a shred of honesty you would admit your beliefs are based on faith. Instead you bear false witness and claim to have proof.

Classic christian dishonesty.

January 22, 2014 at 7:20 pm |

Vic

Can you provide empirical evidence for 'Evolution of Species?!'

January 22, 2014 at 7:38 pm |

In Santa we trust

Topher, You have no evidence of a creator. Our scientific knowledge shows us that the biblical creation myth is incorrect.

January 22, 2014 at 9:23 pm |

In Santa we trust

Vic, There's too much to post here and people like redzoa have posted so much evidence in the past. Here's a good starting point – http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
There's a reason that evolution is taught in schools and creationism isn't – all of the evidence supports evolution and none supports creationism.

January 22, 2014 at 9:25 pm |

breathe deep

How about the fact that there is a new flu shot every year. That is the 'evolution of a species' right in front of your eyes.

January 22, 2014 at 11:10 pm |

sam stone

"god is just, but i want to avoid that justice" – topher/gopher

snivelling coward

January 23, 2014 at 5:20 am |

S-3B Viking

The " 'justice' of God" is akin to how a white, conservative Evangelical Texas male with a bunker and a variety of assult rifles defines "justice."

January 23, 2014 at 5:44 am |

sam stone

god is just, but you do everything in your power to avoid that justice?

hypocrite and coward

February 3, 2014 at 5:22 am |

Solon

Why are the jails and prisons overflowing with christians?

January 22, 2014 at 6:41 pm |

Topher

Has zero bearing on the truth ... and has nothing to do with anything.

January 22, 2014 at 6:46 pm |

Solon

What a flawed argument. Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide anything. Heck, you aren't even capable of explaining why so many of your brethren are in jails and prisons.

January 22, 2014 at 6:53 pm |

Logic.

No, yours is the flawed argument and Topher is right. Ad hominem is attacking the person instead of the argument, which is a logical fallacy.

January 22, 2014 at 7:47 pm |

sam stone

Topher/Gopher runs from logical arguments

January 23, 2014 at 5:26 am |

Vic

That's an urban legend. Plus, if it were true, how do you know they were not atheists when they committed their crimes and then became Christians in lockup?!

It is true that a lot of people convert to Christianity in lockup.

January 22, 2014 at 7:12 pm |

Solon

Bureau of prisons, government statistics obtained during intake processing.

Next.

January 22, 2014 at 7:16 pm |

Solon

The atheits commit all the crimes then convert to christianity when they get caught?

You're lying for jesus, again.

Bearing false witness is forbidden in the 10 commandments, liar.

January 22, 2014 at 7:23 pm |

Observer

Austin

Let's get this PERFECTLY clear:

You have predicted a class f5 or f7 tornado will hit Raymond, NE in April or May, 2014. Yes or no?

If not, please make the corrections and TRY NOT to run away to avoid answering.

January 22, 2014 at 6:30 pm |

Austin

no i take it back. i don't have the authority to project into the future, i want to simply write my dreams down and i can speak to the ones that have been confirmed, but i should not say that i know that it will happen.

here is what happened and why i think it might. because i had a dream about tornadoes in missouri right before the joplin missouri tornadoe and this was the same dream but in lincoln ne.

January 22, 2014 at 6:33 pm |

Observer

Austin

"no i take it back. i don't have the authority to project into the future"

Totally FALSE. You claim you can do that ALL THE TIME.

Can't you be HONEST?

January 22, 2014 at 6:37 pm |

Austin

observer, i had done it twice, about chemical weapons, and a train attack,

and i was correct about both of those.

isnt it kind of too late now, we will wait and see. ok? sounds fun huh?

January 22, 2014 at 6:39 pm |

In Santa we trust

How many dreams do you have? How many are exactly accurate? How many are non-obvious – predicting a tornado in Tornado Alley is something I could do.

January 22, 2014 at 6:46 pm |

Observer

Austin

"isnt it kind of too late now, we will wait and see. ok?"

Nope. We aren't going to wait until something happens and then you say "Yep. I knew it".

If you are UNWILLING or UNABLE to clearly make your visions for the future known, then don't waste our time with WORTHLESS claims later.

You could make $1 million for your church and convince millions of people that God exists, but you are too AFRAID to try.

January 22, 2014 at 6:49 pm |

Austin

observer. a prophet could make such a claim. I am not a prophet. i should not risk becoming a "false prophet", when all i know is that i have a spiritual gift. I am not the one who does it. God is.

I have no clue other than I write my dreams down and then experience them when they come true. Its really amazing. I spend much time in the word of God because I know that He is the father of all things spiritual.

January 22, 2014 at 6:53 pm |

sam stone

Austin: Submit your dreams for independent verification, if you have the g-o-n-a-d-s for it

January 23, 2014 at 5:29 am |

Austin

listen to this. after my buddies funeral last week, i went to buy a few bibles for 2 people at the funeral. at the bookstore i saw this woman i had not seen in ten years i asked her "how is your twin sister" she said "she died of a drug overdose"
and just then my ex girl friends mom (hadnt seen her for 5 years walks in ) and says, "my twin sister died too".......

i get home and i had a dream from jail, from two years ago that there was a girl who overdosed, and that my ex girlfriends mom was in the dream. and this girl overdosed only 6 months ago.

there was another part to the dream, "two guys caught on tape"
and i called crime stoppers and told the cops and i personally think that this information led to the arrest of 2 guys for 1st degree se.xual assault on top of the wreckless ho.micide.

January 22, 2014 at 6:38 pm |

Solon

You're hallucinating or your a liar. Just man up and admit it.

January 22, 2014 at 6:40 pm |

Solon

Bearing false witness is forbidden in the 10 commandments, liar.

January 22, 2014 at 6:42 pm |

Austin

there were 2 men booked on 1st degree s.exual assualt in the mugshots, and one of them looked like the guy from my dream .

however, no response will be given to me i have no way to verify. aside from that, I had the dream 2 years ago that my ex was in a dream with something about a death overdose, and the dream CAME TRUE. This is ANOTHER VISION FROM JAIL

the dream was 18 months ahead of the crime, and 2 years ahead of the sovereign work to put the girls sister, my ex gfs mom and me in the same store.
TALLY THAT ONE UP IT HIT.

Austin: You clueless dolt, no-one believes you. We all see another Andrea Yates in your righting...you're crazy and need serious help. Now if you don't want this truth to be known then stop being a little coward and contact James Randi.

January 22, 2014 at 6:45 pm |

Austin

solon THIS IS NO LIE MAN.

i am speaking about the dream and then the book store experience. i don't have any proof that the men arrested were related to the woman who died, but I have a feeling they were. i think i gave them the information they lacked, and they questioned the men and they ratted each other out.

January 22, 2014 at 6:46 pm |

Austin

truth prevails, come to lincoln NE and you can meet me and i will show you my stuff. ill by half your plane ticket.

January 22, 2014 at 6:47 pm |

Austin

tp, i am way out of line to predict a tornadoe. and the James Randii thing is for personal gain, that's is forbidden.

research, "the error of Balaam"

January 22, 2014 at 6:48 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

Any excuse will do, Austin, any excuse will do. Well done.

January 22, 2014 at 6:51 pm |

OTOH

Austin,
"the James Randii thing is for personal gain, that's is forbidden. "

You could refuse the prize, or donate it. Just think of how many 'souls' could be 'saved' if your claims can be proved!

January 22, 2014 at 6:53 pm |

Solon

" i don't have any proof... but I have a feeling"

At least you can admit you are wrong; well done.

Feelings, emotion and intuition are not evidence, they are not proof. They are nothing.

January 22, 2014 at 6:56 pm |

Observer

I constantly say that Austin could win the million dollars for his church and all the GOOD it could do.

Austin: You're a liar and a coward. The fact is you are making it up as you go along and screaming foul when confronted...either put up or shut up!

January 22, 2014 at 6:58 pm |

Austin

again, i had this dream and i called the police over the matter, because i know that God is the only sovereign enti.ty that could have given me the dream. and there was an unsolved case, and i had information that would appear to be case related."2 men caught on tape" is what I wrote down. 2 years ago.

salvation "otoh" is the baptism of the holy Spirit. If you do not seek the holy spirit now, you will not change your mind later. I just gave you the most recent supernatural example and you don't believe me. that is a problem. you can't believe me and you could simply ask for the gift of faith and forgiveness.

and you would inherit eternal life too. thats a no brainer.

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

Austin: And again you are a liar! Your dreams are not evidence of the supernatural. You are delusional and need to seek help at the local asylum before those dreams turn you back in to the drunken fool we know you are and in turn cause you to harm someone!

January 22, 2014 at 7:03 pm |

Austin

tp, i don't know if the guys arrested were due to my tip. but one of them looked like the guy i saw in another dream were there was a tape of 2 men r.ping an unconsciouss woman, and she died in the process in my dream.

i think that God wants justice and is showing me what happened.

January 22, 2014 at 7:04 pm |

Observer

Austin,

If you are too AFRAID to actually predict something in detail, don't waste our time making claims later.

You have no credibility. Twisting dreams to match a situation doesn't hack it.

As some people say, why not "put up or shut up"?

January 22, 2014 at 7:06 pm |

Austin

truth prevails,

i had a dream about a woman who died of an overdose, and my ex girl friends mother. this was 2 years ago. i walked into the store and wam, this dream had come true. now i could not even remember the dream. it was not until i had another dream of a woman who died while being ra.ped, did i even go back and read other dreams. this is a supernatural experience. not one of you can prove that it is not. and i KNOW, that it is.

how do you even rationalize that i could be sitting here telling you this after everything else i have allready explained to you , and sit here and claim "delusional" AGAIN.

I feel sorry for you.

January 22, 2014 at 7:08 pm |

Austin

observer , what did i twist? do you have some questions?

January 22, 2014 at 7:08 pm |

Observer

Austin,

We have no idea what you twisted. You REFUSE to go on record for the future.

If you want, I'll come back after the weekend and tell you about all of my visions for the weekend that came true.

January 22, 2014 at 7:11 pm |

Austin

truth prevails......you called me a liar.

what am i lying about?

January 22, 2014 at 7:13 pm |

Austin

observer..this dream was from 2 years ago. do you see that pattern? do i have to go to James Randii for 2 years?

January 22, 2014 at 7:14 pm |

Austin

i have to take off. c ya all later. i have accurately put the details of this latest one out. and i called crimestoppers in lincoln NE as well as 2 people who i think are informants or higher up.

January 22, 2014 at 7:17 pm |

Solon

Austin is a well known mental patient to police, dispatchers, detectives and hospital staff in Lincoln.

January 22, 2014 at 7:28 pm |

sam stone

Austin: Put up or shut up

January 23, 2014 at 5:36 am |

S-3B Viking

Austin,

So glad to hear you are psychic...let us know the number to your psychic hot-line when it's up and running.

Oh, and learn how to spell "tornado." You look a bit silly not knowing.

January 23, 2014 at 5:51 am |

Pete

Austin again 20% of people on this planet can have these types of dream regardless of their beliefs, it has nothing to do with religion. I have these types of dreams and don't believe in a god. This is about our brains and not religion, so stop trying to sell as part of your god because that is a lie.

January 23, 2014 at 11:13 am |

Solon

The deranged christian god murders newborn babies. What a sicko.

2 Samuel 12:14 – Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

January 22, 2014 at 6:26 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

Don't forget the week-old babies, embryos, and fetuses in the whole flood fiasco.

January 22, 2014 at 6:28 pm |

Austin

tower of Babel, man is so depraved that God had to interveine.

You can be thankful that you have a savior and that you are loved and justified through the name and the blood of Christ.

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

take a step out of spiritual blindness/depravity

January 22, 2014 at 6:30 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

And your stupid god couldn't come up with a better fix than world-wide genocide?!?? What a disgusting and stupid terrorist azzhole you serve!

January 22, 2014 at 6:34 pm |

Austin

capt obvious, Paul had Christians killed. He was ignorant, and then he was called to the light.

Israel was a holy nation, if you read the old testament, stoning people was something where one would die, and the guilt of the whole congregation was placed upon the guilty person. an animal sacrifice was where the sin of the congregation was placed upon the head of the cow.

this was foreshadowing Jesus Christ. That is a prophetic truth.

Leviticus 4:29

Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Leviticus 4:29.

And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

January 22, 2014 at 6:28 pm |

Solon

There has never been such a thing as "prophetic truth"; you are a parrot and a liar.

January 22, 2014 at 6:30 pm |

Solon

According to mythology, jesus told his listeners, the people in front of him he was speaking to, that he would return in their lifetime. FAIL.

January 22, 2014 at 6:31 pm |

Austin

no he didn't . mis interpretation.

January 22, 2014 at 6:50 pm |

Solon

According to the goofy bible, infants under one month old are not considered people. Sick, deranged, lunatic bible bangers don't know their own bible. Instead they claim to know what their imaginary god wants.

Numbers 3:15-16 – Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD.

January 22, 2014 at 6:25 pm |

Solon

According to the deranged, malevolent christian god, abortion is NOT murder.

Exodus 21:22-23 – If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life.

January 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm |

Austin

God is love. God told Adam, "the day you eat of the tree you will surely die"

and God spared his life. and then cain killed abel and started the caananites and there was war.

what do you think you can change about that?

January 22, 2014 at 6:24 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

God is a hateful hypocrite. He tells us to love our enemies, but he tortures his forever in a pit of never-ending fire. What a torturous azzhole. Pol Pot, Hitler, and bin Laden got nothing on him.

God is far from love. Your god impregnated a young lady against her will-better known in the real world as ra</bpe; your god had a Britney Spears moment when it decided to wipe out its entire creation because it screwed up; your god condones oppression of women and children; your god condones child abuse. Your god is not so loving and you are still crazy as ever for accepting it.

January 22, 2014 at 6:32 pm |

Solon

And Lot was a "just & righteous" man after getting his daughters pregnant and blaming alcohol and them.

January 22, 2014 at 6:33 pm |

Solon

What a flock of hypocrites. According to their fictional bible, their imaginary god was the first abortionist. Goofballs don't even read their own babble. They brainwash and condition the above mentioned children in their sick jesus camps. Disgusting.

January 22, 2014 at 6:19 pm |

Austin

the apostle Paul and gospels were written by people who had proof of God. many other people, including myself, also have proof of God. The Holy Spirit is a sanctifying spirit that bears the truth of God's word within a persons heart.

This is real, I can attest to that. I say this and this is true.

January 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm |

ME II

@Austin,
Correction, you and others claim to have "proof" of God. That does not mean that you do.

You have no proof; only unsubstantiated claims. There has never been a shred of evidence that proves your sick, deranged, twisted, malevolent, fictional murderer god exists nor has there been any proof supporting the fictional bible. "the bible is true because the bible says so" is not proof.

January 22, 2014 at 6:29 pm |

Pete

Austin, you have no proof of that, the reason is because I can get the exact same feeling my accessing a particular part of my brain that releases a chemical to create that feeling. ALL people of ALL the thousands of religions that man has come up with can make the same claim, because it has nothing to do with your religion or your god, it has to do with our brains. Plus it's really hard to take you seriously when it's been shown that the bible is not an historical book because it's full of literary genre and folklore.

January 23, 2014 at 11:26 am |

scootfl78

So lovely watching hateful bigoted people trying to enforce their religious beliefs on others. How many of these anti-abortionists are anti-welfare, anti-government, yet pro death penalty? Its a nice thought that they apparently care about life (when it fits their ideals), but could care less about that life once its born into the world. Thanks CNN for once again sharing what the far right in the world are doing. Maybe one day you'll care about the left and progressive side of the world enough to post stories about their protests (though it obviously wouldn't be part of the religion blog).

January 22, 2014 at 6:17 pm |

Austin

the secular government is an abomination in the eyes of God. this government teaches children to reject God.

That is satanic. secular is satanic. its all bad.

January 22, 2014 at 6:26 pm |

Solon

Zeus is the King of all gods; your god is a weakling.

According to the bible your sick, malevolent god is omnipotent; mere mortals could not possibly overpower an omnipotent god. You've spent too much time at jesus camp and not enough time in science class.

No-one is forcing you to live in a democratic nation Austin. If you want theocracy please feel free to do the good people of the country a favor and leave.

January 22, 2014 at 6:42 pm |

Sidd Finch

Give me a break. First of all, it is very clear that Roe v Wade has had a significant impact on the decrease in crime in the US. Non of these bleeding heart conservatives are willing to put step up and open orphanages to house all the unwanted babies that would come from a repeal of RvW. And I don't get where the shame comes from in adopting in this article. I know plenty of parents who have gone to extremes including adopting children from overseas to fulfill their dreams of a family. Unfortunately, it all comes back to the communities that are the biggest users of abortion as BC. Their communities are not willing to step up and clean up their problems. But at the end of the day, it is time for RTLers to keep their noses out of mine and everyone else's business.

While many may argue against me, religion is much like poverty. It has been reinforced through the generations to the point it gets into your blood. But if you take a child away from the influence of either, there is a new benchmark to begin with. Believe what you will and I won't argue with me so long as you don't try to shove your baseless, mystical views down my throat. Just because everyone has told you there is a god since the day you could remember a thing does not make it so. So don't try to shove your god-based beliefs about RTL down my throat. This country separated church from state for a reason, so that sanity and reason would reign supreme over blind faith and irrationality!!!

January 22, 2014 at 5:37 pm |

Austin

hell is poverty, and the effects of sin are poverty. and the secular lie is poverty. death is poverty. life is from God.

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

January 22, 2014 at 5:40 pm |

Observer

God never mentioned abortion, but he did give man a formula to create a drink to cause them.

January 22, 2014 at 5:43 pm |

Austin

was that the curse for some women or what was that reference? if God did not mention abortion that means it is not a Godly process. Correct? did God not cover His bases?

January 22, 2014 at 5:47 pm |

Austin

I garintee you that the fallen angels taught abortion.

January 22, 2014 at 5:48 pm |

Observer

God's Formula for Sterility and Abortion:

Numbers 5:26-27) “The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”

January 22, 2014 at 5:50 pm |

Austin

no if she was innocent then that woud not cause the abortion so this is not an abortion drink.

January 22, 2014 at 5:54 pm |

Observer

Austin

"no if she was innocent then that woud not cause the abortion so this is not an abortion drink."

Lol. Are you SERIOUS at all? IF she was GUILTY this would cause an ABORTION.

Oooops!

January 22, 2014 at 5:56 pm |

Austin

right , however this potion was a supernatural potion causing death, and not abortion. you can compare it to the destroyer who saw the passover blood on the door. and He passed over those who were set apart.

supernatural Death does not =abortion.

January 22, 2014 at 5:59 pm |

Austin

hebrew women would put the live newborn in the dump. this is historical cultural truth. they didnt have abortions. they put the baby live into the dump and left it.

January 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm |

Liz the First

Austin, the fetus was just as dead, whether you like it or not; God killed a child innocent of its mother's supposed crimes. You excuse it because you excuse all things God does.

January 22, 2014 at 6:03 pm |

Observer

Austin

"right , however this potion was a supernatural potion causing death, and not abortion"

"When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will MISCARRY, and she will become a curse.”

What part of the word MISCARRY don't you understand?

January 22, 2014 at 6:07 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

Austin believes that might makes right. He believes that his god could never be wrong.....EVER...because of his t!tle.

January 22, 2014 at 6:08 pm |

Austin

well Liz, i wish it was that simple. I struggle to accept everything that God does, but I know that I should not arge with God's will. sometimes His answer to prayer is "no'.

No Christ follower can relate to the decisions that God makes . Our flesh does not agree with our spiritual intuition.

But the Holy Spirit reveals the fact of His presence and then you realize that this happened through the Word of God

John 1 (New International Version)
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John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jan. 22, 2014 — Our most common male ancestor emerged some 209,000 years ago - earlier than many scientists previously thought, according to new research from the University of Sheffield.

The pioneering study, conducted by Dr Eran Elhaik from the University of Sheffield and Dr Dan Graur from the University of Houston, also debunked the discovery of the Y chromosome that supposedly predated humanity.

http://sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140122134148.htm

January 22, 2014 at 6:13 pm |

Liz the First

Austin, who is man to interfere with free will?
You cannot legislate your religion into laws.
God will decide, not you. I have to assume that everything going on is according to His plan. Right?

January 22, 2014 at 6:14 pm |

Observer

Austin

You are a riot!

"an abortion is deliberate invasive action, miscarriage is natural."

The miscarriage wasn't "natural". It only happened because the woman took the potion COMMANDED by God. It was a "DELIBERATE INVASIVE ACTION".

January 22, 2014 at 6:16 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

What kind of stupid god needs a dust-infused magic potion to do assist him? You'd think he could carry out the "curse" without a recipe for abortion. Then again, you'd think an all-knowing god could come up with a better "fix" than to murder an entire planet's worth of humans, animals, and plants by drowning.

Austin's god is just fvcking stupid. Bottom line.

January 22, 2014 at 6:19 pm |

Austin

no way, if she was innocent then the potion would not have been invasive. this was a judgment, not an abortion.

January 22, 2014 at 6:20 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

No, dipsh!t, it was both. Your god like to fix problems by murder. It's what he did to David and Bathsheba. He kills and tortures. It's what he does.

January 22, 2014 at 6:24 pm |

nhein

Observer - From your post "her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”

Not sure which translation you used but the translations closer to Hebrew(New American Standard) DOES NOT say Miscarry:

All translations I looked at show: "her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot"

This is open to interpretation – it could mean she becomes barren - unable to have any more kids(based on vs. 28(if the woman has not defiled her husband she will be able to have children)) I believe it means barren and does not mean the abortion of a baby. Besides NO WHERE in the previous verses does it mention she is with child.

First of all look at the context - if a woman has defiled and been unfaithful to her husband and the husband suspects his wife is impure - then he takes her to the priest with the grain offering and the priest will put the woman under oath - then under oath she takes the "bitter water" and if she has been faithful no harm is done but if she has been unfaithful then this curse of barreness will be upon her.

January 22, 2014 at 7:31 pm |

Observer

nhein,

(Numbers 5:26-27) “The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”

Source: New International Version, the largest selling Bible in 2013

The woman supposedly committed adultery and the potion will cause her to MISCARRY, which is abortion here.

January 23, 2014 at 1:10 am |

hemiola

In the beginning, there was Africa....home to man; then Buddha who taught about the realities of living in the world, not out of it in some supernatural fog of an alternate universe (heaven/hell). Heaven/hell is what you make of your life as you live, not as you die.

January 22, 2014 at 5:51 pm |

Austin

Satan was created by Christ. He fell out of heaven and started acting like God, creating false religion.

Adam, Noah, Abraham, these men followed God most High, not like Cain who killed his brother and was banished and cottled by the devil.

January 22, 2014 at 5:57 pm |

Observer

Cain went off to the parallel civilization called Nod, but the Bible forgot to explain. God created it, but didn't talk about it. Maybe it started with the guy named Steve that Christians talk about when they reference "Adam and Steve".

January 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm |

Austin

God did not create the cain civilization. Baal was the creator if any aside from Cain. Baal is the devil's loyal demon.

January 22, 2014 at 6:02 pm |

Observer

Austin,

Where does the Bible say that Baal created Nod? We thought that God created EVERYTHING, but you claim not.

Please QUOTE that fact from the Bible. Or did you JUST MAKE IT UP?

January 22, 2014 at 6:12 pm |

sam stone

Austin: You are delusional. Seek the help of a mental health professional

January 22, 2014 at 6:14 pm |

Austin

no problem buddy, Gal 2:17

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not!

God did not create the Atomic Bomb. sinners did.

Jeremiah 10:8

They are both stupid and foolish; the instruction of idols is but wood!

Isaiah 44:9-10 Helpful?

All who fashion idols are nothing, and the things they delight in do not profit. Their witnesses neither see nor know, that they may be put to shame. Who fashions a god or casts an idol that is profitable for nothin

the list goes on and on that men "worship the creations of their own hands" and the fallen angels helped them. they civilized the fallen world.

January 22, 2014 at 6:18 pm |

Observer

Sidd,

Happy Birthday in April!

January 22, 2014 at 5:40 pm |

Liz the First

It's the 1st, is it not? Lol

January 22, 2014 at 6:17 pm |

Observer

Just like in "Liz the First"

January 22, 2014 at 6:41 pm |

MaryM

Again, when ALL the children in foster care are adopted, then we can talk.

January 22, 2014 at 5:25 pm |

Ken Margo

When men can get pregnant abortion would be as common as a cold.

January 22, 2014 at 5:28 pm |

MaryM

If men could get pregnant , There would be drive thru abortion clinics on every corner of the city

January 22, 2014 at 5:30 pm |

Liz the First

Lol. I agree with both of you. Except for Ken and a few others I have seen here, the ones bitChing the loudest are the ones who will never have any skin in the game.

If only we could see this issue with the eyes of the child in the womb. I know, they are only called 'children' by mothers who want them, otherwise we choose to call them 'clumps of cells'.

January 22, 2014 at 5:22 pm |

bdru

So, around 28 weeks we should try to see thru the eyes of the fetus since that is when their eyes would be considered viable.

January 22, 2014 at 5:58 pm |

Alias

I asked this questoin below, but apparently no one saw it:
Do some of you really believe that you all knowing and all powerful god had no choise but to get a virgin pregnant and torture the child to death? The bible says that is the ONLY way god would be able to forgive us all for a sin we did not commit.

January 22, 2014 at 5:18 pm |

Ken Margo

I use the bible for a door stop. So don't expect an answer from me.

January 22, 2014 at 5:21 pm |

Alias

I don't expect a straight answer from anyone.
I just hope people understand that if they don't accept the 'truth' in their own religion, I will reject any argument based on their faith.

January 22, 2014 at 5:28 pm |

Ken Margo

If they accepted the "truth" they wouldn't be religious.

January 22, 2014 at 5:30 pm |

Austin

Alias, its a good question.

why the sacrifice? it goes back to Adam. God told adam, if you eat of the tree you will die. and that is what happened spiritually and physically, but instead of God putting creation out of it's misery (mankind), God made them tunics of skin to clothe their new found shame.

that was a substi.tutionary death. and then to remind Adam of the sin, He started the animal sacrifice, to basically make them emotionally burdened at their own sin.

Remember, God, is Christ. Christ is the love form of God.

January 22, 2014 at 5:46 pm |

Alias

I knew I wouldn't get an answer to the question.
I asked if he had to – you asked WHY and then answered your question instead of mine..

January 22, 2014 at 7:06 pm |

Dave W

Alias

The Bible does not actually that Christ's virgin birth and death on the cross was the only way sin could be forgiven, but it does say that is in fact He chose to provide salvation. The Bible also says that the "cross of Christ" (ie, His way vs wordly wisdom's way) is folly to those who are perishing in their sinful blindness. It is clear He does this in direct and conscious opposition to what self-righteous human beings who reject His truth would say makes sense.

My sincere advice to you is to rethink your opposition to God and His truth.

January 22, 2014 at 5:37 pm |

Eric

So nice that it's just that convenient.

January 22, 2014 at 5:57 pm |

Alias

If you really think that aborting a fetus in the first trimester destroys a life, then think about a woman giving birth to a child she did not want and cannot support. That can destroy 2 lives.
Unless, of course the woman already had other children. Then it could destroy more.

January 22, 2014 at 5:10 pm |

Austin

here is why that is garbage. John the baptist ate locusts and was clothed in camel hair. being poor is not a curse. life is not a curse. struggling is not a curse.

poor people will be rich in the kingdom. poverty is not any reason put a child out. why did she allow herself to get pregnant? you are saying, "oops i had to get laid now lets kill it" this is trecherous.

January 22, 2014 at 5:53 pm |

Ken Margo

Austin

"John the baptist ate locusts and was clothed in camel hair. being poor is not a curse. life is not a curse. struggling is not a curse."

Tell that to the repubs!

January 22, 2014 at 6:00 pm |

Austin

i really cant stand the government period . I make no distinction in a secular satanic system that teaches children to reject God.
to hell with every bit of em.

January 22, 2014 at 6:04 pm |

Cpt. Obvious

Yeah, you seem like the type to think eternal torture is a good idea. You and your disgusting god deserve each other.

January 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm |

James

Spoken like someone who has never known poverty. I grew up poor. We were hungry a good bit of the time, scrambling to put together meals. I wore clothes so worn and patched and repatched I am surprised I did not get the nickname 'Patch'. We foraged thru dumpsters for anything useful. Being THE poor kid in my school I was bullied constantly. It was HELL and it did not lead to a happy adulthood–lots of depression, several suicide attempts and sketchy lives have resulted for my brothers and I. My mother should only have had the kids she wanted and could afford. There is no 'miracle' or 'blessing' to life, especially if it is unwanted or ill prepared for. Wake the heck up! Your ilk trying to saddle thousands with hordes of children is just going to drive up the misery. Of course that is what you want to do to 'those people', don't you?

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.