If i were u i would save it for celestial alignment, however i dont think it will matter too much as ul get ur meta proc almost insantly. If u save it for celestial alignment u will probably have more chance of both ur trinkets up & your dots will benefit from lunar + solar + meta proc + lust(fight dependany). Either way i dont think its a massive dps loss

All CDs (gloves + berzerking etc) should be cast with CA. Casting them with only Inc up is a dps loss. The only exception I'd imagine is 2nd pot, as that should be cast 5 seconds into Inc, to end its duration at the conclusion of CA.

All CDs (gloves + berzerking etc) should be cast with CA. Casting them with only Inc up is a dps loss. The only exception I'd imagine is 2nd pot, as that should be cast 5 seconds into Inc, to end its duration at the conclusion of CA.

Is this correct? And also during the fight when both are off cd should I blow both together?

Yes, if Inc + CA are up and you are 'safe' you should.
And unless you have 2 RPPM trinkets, or your Legendary Meta Gem. Then your opener is good.

Edit: As Fleuria said, switch to the Solar Opener as soon as you get the LMG or 2 RPPM trinkets.
Also, use your Eng gloves on CDs since they are a 1 minute CD and if you do use them on CD, they should line back up with Inc + CA.

Before countdown / pull:
1. Make sure you have starfall off cd
2. Pre-plant mushrooms on boss

Pre-pull / On countdown:
1. Pre-pot 1 sec before pull
2. Starfall immediatelly after (so this should still be ~1 sec before pull)

After countdown / boss is ready to be hit:
1. CA + Mushroom Bloom + Engineer Gloves macro
2. Sunfire (Moonfire will be applied automatically by CA)
(By this time all my trinkets usually are procc'd)
3. Spam my Treants keybind, try to get all 3 treants as instantly as I can
4. Starsurge (whenever off CD or SS proc)
5. Starfire spam
6. Reapply starfall when first one

Now you have to pick the easy way or the better way (imo):

# Easy way
7. Keep starfire/starsurge spam till at the very last second
8. Right before CA is about to fall off you reapply Sunfire to get both dots refreshed.
9. Wrath your way back to Lunar
10. And continue normal rotation from here...

# My way:

Ok here is the tricky part: usually by this time (right after applying 2nd starfall) all my procs are about to fall off (meta/2 trinkets) but I still have another 2-3 seconds on CA... I personally have found out better to reapply my CA dots at this moment (i.e. before all buffs fall) versus applying at the very end of the CA buff.. So here is goes (continuing off 6):

If you are *Fishing* for trinket procs(which is what a treants are used with) for your treants and CA, why do you pop CA right when the pull timer hits 0, more than likely your initial dots will not be impacted by all your trinkets/buffs. Sometimes it takes 3-4 seconds to have all trinkets and buffs procced.

Seems to me that you are wasting valuable trinket procs when trinket procs do not 100% of the time proc on the first spell cast.

If you are *Fishing* for trinket procs(which is what a treants are used with) for your treants and CA, why do you pop CA right when the pull timer hits 0, more than likely your initial dots will not be impacted by all your trinkets/buffs. Sometimes it takes 3-4 seconds to have all trinkets and buffs procced.

Seems to me that you are wasting valuable trinket procs when trinket procs do not 100% of the time proc on the first spell cast.

Hum, good point. So how exactly are you saying I could open instead then? You guys open with wraths till u get procs and then starfall into CA kinda deal? BTW I don't get what u said about use treants to fish for procs since you want to pop them with the procs it self...

Hum, good point. So how exactly are you saying I could open instead then? You guys open with wraths till u get procs and then starfall into CA kinda deal? BTW I don't get what u said about use treants to fish for procs since you want to pop them with the procs it self...

I open with a SS that its pre-pull casted, 1 Wrath but no more and then pop CA and Treants. Sometimes I pop Mushrooms after CA and before treants if Bindings didn't proc.

A lot of people aint using mushrooms on pull because they underestimate the power, if I don't use shrooms my bindings can sometimes take 10-15 seconds to proc on a pull, but a mushroom explosion (which I macro with CA) procs absolutely everything instantly 9/10 times.

A lot of people aint using mushrooms on pull because they underestimate the power, if I don't use shrooms my bindings can sometimes take 10-15 seconds to proc on a pull, but a mushroom explosion (which I macro with CA) procs absolutely everything instantly 9/10 times.

Obviously if using FoN you just move everything forward by 1 second and put FoN where you're applying your CA dots.

Starfall updates dynamically with Int procs so using pot 5 seconds before pull it a waste. You also have an empty GCD between using Incarnation and Starsurge.

I'm not really a fan of using Wrath and other filler spells to get Int procs active before putting CA DoTs up since 99% of the time all your RPPM procs will happen on the first Starsurge and you're essentially wasting a few seconds of those procs in hope that your Bindings will proc (which they may actually not).

Yeah got the numbers of seconds wrong on the countdown, there's no gap when i actually do it though :P Come to think of it I'm not actually why the potion is where it is, or how I came to putting it there, I just learned it that way when learning the solar opener last tier.

The wrath isn't there to proc things though. I get everything to proc from shrooms alone. I do a wrath because 1. Starsurge doesn't leave my chars hand on the pull, but slightly before, so if I CA DoT there I'll ninja pull and fuck other peoples pots and 2. It gives an extra second for tanks to get in and lust to go up. It's literally 1 second, I wouldn't call it a waste, and it's mostly beneficial.

I'm getting really confused in here, I thought we were supposed to keep CA for when we exit Lunar phase, like:¨
Stay at 75 energy prepull
Starfall and get into lunar
Inc/FoN
Cast to 0 Energy
and THEN use CA

I'm getting really confused in here, I thought we were supposed to keep CA for when we exit Lunar phase, like:¨
Stay at 75 energy prepull
Starfall and get into lunar
Inc/FoN
Cast to 0 Energy
and THEN use CA