Was going to say, however tell me more about why pimsleur is good? Everything else I have been trying has been lower cost but really falls down on getting me to speak. I’d pay for some live interaction.

Duolingo fluency shield suffers from grade inflation especially when you are progressing through, say, the first third of the course or have just taken the placement test. At some points if starts to drop off and decay and you may regret giving into your ex-clever schoolboy’s craving for this particular form of external gratification.

Some of the answers in some of the courses are messed up so that it will tell you about an alternate answer or typo which seems to be dependent on some punctuation, or even some other “invisible punctuation.” There seem to even be cases where it is supposed to accept some letters from say, a standard English alphabet, without certain diacritical and just tell you to “mind the accents” but it gets into some looking glass world where it doesn’t accept the correct foreign alphabet letter. Feel like I️ saw this happen in Turkish, with the non-dotted i, the ı.

i haven't gone back in and checked but yes, it's quite likely tha:, since i realised when i read yr post that i was listening to DL's pronunciation of Iau and thinking "wow the initial i sound in front of those vowels is really like an L isn't it?" -- based on assuming my grasp of welsh pronunciation is actually worse than it is

my double ll pronunciation is p good i think! the nearest large town to where we went on family holidays when i was a kid is machynlleth and i know how ppl who live in it say it

this was before welsh was actually taught in schools -- indeed, it was actively discouraged in schools back then, and i know someone who was made to leave school at 16 because he preferred to speak welsh (as did his entire family, of hill farmers)

(he became a mechanic and a builder, and is now very comfortably off and owns half the town)

"The grapheme k was also used more commonly than in the modern alphabet, particularly before front vowels.[3] The disuse of this letter is at least partly due to the publication of William Morgan's Welsh Bible, whose English printers, with type letter frequencies set for English and Latin, did not have enough k letters in their type cases to spell every /k/ sound as k, so the order went "C for K, because the printers have not so many as the Welsh requireth";[5] this was not liked at the time, but has become standard usage."

"why doesn't welsh have the letter k?""we ran out that one time and never restocked"

my devoted year+ on duolingo french got me enough of the basics that I was able to get a civil servant job in France where I speak French full time. it helped that I was living in France most of that time and that I'd already spent a lot of time reading french (or trying to, with much dictionary use) and that I already spoke Spanish pretty well (son of a native speaker but didn't grow up speaking it, only learned it in school). so I am yay duolingo!

I spent some time on the japanese tree earlier this year as I learn that language next but I'm going to need more than just duolingo to do it because I don't have a great sense of the grammar whereas learning a second romance language, I already grokked the main structures, what I really needed was enough confidence in applying those structures to go ahead and speak it irl.

although I think the japanese accent is easier than the french accent, so duolingo may be ok in that regard (japanese mostly sounds like it looks, unlike french)

I'm doing German which I'm already sorta conversational in as my Dad is from there. I wasn't raised speaking it though and what I do know is only what I've picked up listening to him speak with friends and relatives and the times that I've spent there. I'm really enjoying it so far though and am excited to improve :).

i just discovered the chats-with-bots feature (after several days of just ignoring the you-have-mail signal): i like that it goes "excellent response!" after what is (in another, more accurate sense) a pretty basic not-actually-rude response

I spent some time on the japanese tree earlier this year as I learn that language next but I'm going to need more than just duolingo to do it because I don't have a great sense of the grammar whereas learning a second romance language, I already grokked the main structures, what I really needed was enough confidence in applying those structures to go ahead and speak it irl.

Ah, you are right, f. hazel, it is in the second hardest category. Very hard to shake that feeling of “In just a short period of time I have learned a few simple greetings, phrases and grammar points — it’s all downhill from here!”

I studied Japanese for three years, it feels easy at the very beginning (no subject/verb agreement, no plurals, very few sounds not already present in English) and then rapidly destroys your self-confidence (honorifics, counters, ten-year investment in memorizing Kanji if you ever want to read a newspaper headline)

Well, true, the honorifics are quite hard. But compared to dutch (and other languages) it felt easier. Much less exceptions. It feels more structured compared to my language. Granted, languages come easily to me.

I remember my Japanese-as-in-from-Japan professor being asked if she was going to move back to Japan and her momentary abandonment of her usual formal-Japanese-professor aspect to exclaim "absolutely not, I hate living there!" and then she spent the rest of the class saying how great Japan was to make up for it. Not mentioned in textbooks: it really sucks to be a woman there.

As for kanji, I find that relatively easy. I’m thirty weeks into a kanji learning programme and I can read most of what a 6th grader can a lot of what a high schooler can. Actually I’m slowing down that to bring my grammar and comprehension up to a similar level. It’s been a real boon to be able to read so much more, though.

Position of women in japan is pretty shocking, if slowly getting better.

I'm a creature of habit and many days just do a quick couple of lessons, but more when I have time (I'm at 55000XP over those 1000+ days). I've always maintained my streak freeze, which has saved me a few times along the way when life got particularly busy.

Can I just say, I hate the Leagues? I mean, it was cute when there were a limited amount of them, and it was a race you could win. But it got old really fast - and now the leagues are just never-ending, like every time you complete one, another one appears?

Also, the "scoring" for the leagues is really unfair. I'm on Level 5 (the top level) for over half the available courses. The ones that are left are actually really difficult, because German grammar is complex.

Stupidly, because I was trying to "win" a league, I raced really fast through levels 3 and 4, so I did not absorb the actual grammar. Now I'm down to no lessons left, but I still need to review them, so I do a lot of reviewing.

It used to be that reviews and new lessons counted for the same amount of points - 10. Then you got up to 5 "bonus" points for new lessons. Then the "new" lessons got bumped up to 18 points, with "bonus" points on top of them. And now reviewing older lessons had been demoted to only 5 points. Like, it's actively penalising you if you are reviewing grammar rather than trying to absorb new lessons at an unfeasible speed.

At first the Leagues were useful, because doing 20 or 30 reviews a day was really GOOD for my German. But now it's really stopped being fun, and I wish I could opt out of them without feeling like I'm "losing".