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Sunday, November 30, 2014

Depression hurts

From a reader:

I've loved reading your blog. I stumbled across it 6 months ago and now I read it every week. It really is fascinating to me, even though I know I'm not a sociopath. I'm empathetic to a pathetic degree most days. I feel deeply, remorse is my middle name and I can't manipulate people very well. However, I've found an interesting side-effect of my depression is a distinct lack of feeling. Most people that I've known when they say they feel depressed they feel melancholy for no reason. I'm not in that category at all. When I get depressed, I feel numb, as in nearly nothing at all. It becomes harder for me to tolerate people, so I put on this mask to pretend that I'm alright. I keep it firmly in place, saying all the right things and making all the right facial expressions, but really I'm just trying to bide my time until my emotions "come back on," as it were. I know that my depression can be the dangerous kind. When I get too deep, as in too far away from my emotions, I start contemplating things with a more distant mind from morality. I've thought more than once that I could definitely murder someone in cold blood and not feel a thing. People closest to me notice the difference and say I get "colder." I act more selfish, in the sense that I'm putting myself before others which goes against my normal behavior. A close friend also mentioned that I am more honest, but in a mean way, that my filter kind of somehow dies with my emotions. When I was a teenager, I used to fall into depression more often than I do now. I would make a game out of it, sometimes kind of willing myself to stay numb for weeks because I knew it would give me an edge during certain periods of my life. But the game nearly made me kill myself once, so I never did it again. I'm strangely lucky that my depression is a minor form usually brought about by stress, so if I'm careful I can manage to keep my emotions. However, when I lose them, it's strangely liberating. I've often wondered if maybe there's going to come a day when I go numb and never get my emotions back. I know logically that's not how it works, but it's a strange dream/nightmare I've had since I was about fifteen or so. Every time I read about sociopaths and you share your experiences, I wonder if maybe I could've been one given the right trigger at some point in my childhood, or that I might become one if given the right circumstances. It's interesting and a little scary to contemplate, but your articles make me feel at ease with the idea more and more. I also think you're really brave for coming out and talking for sociopaths. I've met one self-aware sociopath a long time ago who told me that he didn't want to get killed for being what he was, but he knew if people found out about him they'd destroy him. I wish there was a bigger conversation about sociopathy, ASPD, and so on. I think that actually empaths and sociopaths could benefit from talking about it, since in the end we are all human but nobody is technically "normal." Please keep writing and keep the conversation going. I look forward to reading more soon.

M.E. This is actually pretty interesting. Over the past year or so I have been sort of trying to do the opposite, to really try to amplify my feelings by concentrating on them and really indulging the "feel" of them -- like an emotional hearing aide. So I am more aware of my own emotions, even if I'm still don't necessarily experience other people's emotions via empathy. But if I get sick or otherwise overloaded, I also shut down the emotions and feel numb for a while. And I agree, it feels really great. My therapist doesn't allow me to stay there for long, he says it's counterproductive to what we're trying to ultimately accomplish, but it certainly is very useful for almost anything of practical importance, at least in my life.

Do you feel like your depression is actual depression? Or is it a byproduct of some other issue, like stress or prolonged frustration, boredom, etc.?

Reader:

My depression has been diagnosed, so it's real, but it gets worse under certain periods of stress. Even good stress, like weddings and traveling, can hit me so hard and knock me into a numb state. I'm always aware it's there, though, like a nagging itch under my skin.

I understand that a lot of people suffer from depression and just depression and the depression is not a side effect of other issues or feelings, but I do wonder how often diagnosing someone with depression is like diagnosing someone with a runny nose (symptom), without really looking at the cause.

And in terms of sociopaths, which of these depressions could they feel? The meaningless depression? The chemical depression? Other types

202 comments:

"Post whatever you want, and feel free to do as you like." Um yes, yes I think I'll do that, and I'll imagin chuckin your ass in to a meat grinder...I'm still free to do that too."

Dr. Ginger,

Whether it's depression, borderline symptoms and their manifestation, autism or whatever the case may be, you should at least apologize to me. I tried helping you in a sincere way (i.e., toward reaching a realization on your part), and, in return, you sought to deeply hurt me with your words, which I didn't take as a joke at all, and come to think of it, neither should you, because your words and their meaning are a sure indication of a serious problem (i.e., not just your words to me, but to others as well). What's more, you need to take care of this serious problem in real time, which will help you with understanding that saying such hurtful things cannot and should not be taken as jokes, that a sincere apology means having and showing remorse, and that seeking to hurt others in such mean ways is part of a personal, bigger issue that needs to be dealt with, resolved and healed.

"I didn't take as a joke" I did - a very funny one too. I'm still chuckling...

"a sincere apology means having...remorse"

I can't speak for the Doc, but there was a recent exchange where I explored this with Dr. SciFi and it seems to be something I really don't get. So, I guess I can't give sincere apologies. Bummer - people will be disappointed. *shrug*

Yes, I saw the recent exchange you've mentioned in connection to feeling remorse, which, in my mind, had mainly to do with feeling one's conscience in the heart (i.e., in addition to one's mind). Although it is not easy to explain in its totality, since, after all, it is a deep feeling that must be felt, this is how I can put it into several words.

Since I have been discussing depression with psychotic symptoms, it might be that Dr. Ginger wrote to me, "Um yes, yes I think I'll do that, and I'll imagin chuckin your ass in to a meat grinder...I'm still free to do that too." as a result of it (i.e., violent thoughts induced by a period of psychosis). In any case, I cannot be sure, but it was quite sudden, unexpected and, truth be told, it has never happened before. Well, as I wrote in other comments, I felt deeply hurt, not understanding why Dr. Ginger wrote such a horrible, violent thing to me.

As to the apology, being willing to apologize on Dr. Ginger's part would be an indication of truly seeing, feeling and acknowledging that it is wrong to deeply hurting others with one's words/actions.

I meant to write deeply hurt at the end of the last paragraph. Well, here is the edit. I wanted to delete and re-post the entire comment, but it would have looked as though I meant something different by doing so. I have done it before and it was mainly because of a typo that I needed to correct. This way works as well.

You're killing me here! So you are saying you don't suffer from delusions of being significant? Interesting, considering you claim to know what's best for everyone. The smartest retard in all of Lake Tardicaca.

Stay smart, if the ass in the grinder comment hurt you, you really should stay away from this blog. There will be more things people will say that will hurt you even more. Including perhaps what is below...

I am amazed you asked somebody on sociopathworld to please feel remorse. It would be like asking a person to listen to a podcast on a site dedicated to deaf people. They could actually take it the wrong way. Do you understand that? You sound like a nice person with her heart in the right place. A bit stuck up and full of herself, maybe. But you have not been close to a sociopath yet. You do not understand. I wonder what your background is and why you are here. Did you say you work with autistic people? Would you demand of them to please have the same feelings other humans usually have? If you antagonize people on this site, they will tear you apart. Do not expect any apologies...

God, I am sick. I can't stop laughing about the grinder thing. Sorry Stay Smart, but it is funny. And the fact that you are so up-in-arms about it makes even funnier. And I am a regular empath. Nothing sociopathic about me.

True story, though... a few months ago, my husband got acquainted with a few people. Two of those are named David. One of them has youngish kids. He was separated from wife. She died from cancer shortly after my husband met him. One day, my husband said he was meeting David. So, innocently, and to distinguish between the 2 Davids, I asked: you mean Dead Wife David?

Well, this has become a joke in the family (including my kids who shamelessly make fun of me for having said this - gosh, my kids are doomed!) and some other people who have met David. We now call him DWD. I am not proud of it, but people, including myself still find it funny. He would be devastated if he found out... or maybe he would find it funny as well. His kids would not though. So I try to be a perfect human being, but sometimes dark humour takes over. Perfect is boring anyway. Dr. Ginger, you are far from perfect. Hugs.

As I wrote before, I will continue to help those people who deserve my help. All in all, evil, manipulative people, as well as liars, no longer exist for me once I find their true "face." Also, I don't want to exist for them.

Ok, stay smart. Do as you wish. But don't come crying and looking for apologies when somebody on this site rejects your help. There are plenty of other sites or venues that would appreciate you. Just ask yourself why you want to spend your time and energy here.

A sincere apology means having and showing REMORSE, as well as the realization and indication that one intends to and will get help in a real way. This is how the process of stepping toward recovery usually starts, meaning with a rational and emotional (meaning feeling sorry for having said and done certain things) realization of what has been happening, and with understanding that getting help will stop one from continuing to deeply hurt others as well as oneself. Being willing to apologize, and truly seeing that you have been deeply hurting others with your words and actions, is a step into the right direction. An apology is viewed as an improvement. You call such individuals dramatic or wanting to cause drama, but it is not so, because looking at the facts/reality of this situation, you did write that "I'll imagin chuckin your ass in to a meat grinder...I'm still free to do that too." That is quite serious and very hurtful.

Listen, Thtay Thmart, everything about you is completely full of shit. You know it, and I know it. You’re not “hurt”. I’ve been watching your manipulations with complete fascination. You’re a norm that thinks they’re going to outsmart a bunch of PD’s, and attempt manipulation, which, btw, you’re not bad at, and I’m sure you could easily get away with with others. Really it just amuses you, and keeps you entertained. Not only that, but you came at me like a dominant, oppressive force trying to shame and admonish me in to behaving in a way that you deem acceptable. Fine, I endure it daily, but on this site where others have tried to create an atmosphere where people can freely explore who and what they are without fear of EXACTLY the type of behavior you have been engaging in, it’s actually YOU that should be apologizing.

There is nothing funny about that. Honestly, I can't see why you don't realize this point, but you can discuss epigenetics and were able to "supposedly" sympathize with Dr. Ginger (in an artificial way, that is) about depression and blame, which I did not even mean to convey in my comments. Then, you built up the resistance in him in several comments. I see that as being mean toward a person who really needs help with anger and psychotic symptoms/manifestations.

SS, this is good advice he is giving you. You need to practice saying that. You know how when you speak to people and their eyes glaze over, then they start looking around and fidgeting uncomfortably? Say that.

So full of anger and insults. It was the same as last time, which makes a lot more sense now. Honestly, I don't understand being mean and/or trying to pointlessly agitate a person, especially one who tries to help you in genuine ways. Well, I have been calm through this whole thing, and as I have been saying, realization and awareness is what works in the real world, because that is how I think.

"I was the one you threatened to expose last time. For DrG's sake of course..."

I never threatened to expose anyone last time. I didn't threaten to expose anyone this time either. I never wrote such things, and this is all in your head. As to your insults, they are just malicious and coming from a person who needs help. I'll just look at it that way. And by the way, have some class.

"I'll say it really slowly so maybe you will understand.You...are...retarded. It would be ok if you were amusing as well, but no. You are simply retarded."

As I wrote before, I sympathized with you and felt quite badly when you were called a retard in the past. You know what I mean, pertaining to those posts about Autism. And, no, they weren't on this site.

Lies, you always lie, "Dr. Ginger." Nothing that you have done here shows lucidity. Just so you know, this experience has not made me bitter at all, nor has it changed me in any way. I am still a good person, and I am going to keep helping people, meaning the ones that deserve my help. Once again, forget that I exist - in all ways.

“SS, your condescension, arrogance and the way you try to manipulate and bully people on here make you irresistible to fuck with and will give you away every time.”

Wrong, I was not trying to play a game. This is where you have not understood my reason for being here, so your statement is moot.

“Your manipulation attempts and empty threats are utterly see through. And yes, telling someone "I know who you are and there will be consequences if you don't do what I say" is a threat.”

I never neither manipulated, nor threatened anyone. That is a lie, since this game is all in your head. Just because people do so on this site, it does not mean that I did it as well. My reason for being here has been quite different.

“You want to think that you inspire anger and hatred because you can't handle the thought that you are nothing but a cheap source of amusement to me.”

Ridiculous. I wanted to help. You are cheap, and it shows.

“Once again, I am not HL. I am not DrG. You have never met me outside of this site. Your paranoia seems to make you unable to believe that, no matter how many times I tell you.”

No, this is your paranoia speaking, which is quite evident.

“Yet here you are lecturing people about psychosis, depression and needing help. Take your own advice.”

Well, at least I tried to help you. This is what I am taking with me from this experience - only my good thoughts and intentions.

SS: You're either a gaslighter, a troll or just a run-of-the-mill jackass. Only one of those three would go around trying to correct other people's opinions and trying to incite people all the time while denying it.

Either way, it looks like a number of people here are irritated with your antics, and there's a reason for that.

But it's most definitely entertaining and I don't care to realize anything else about it.

You come here paranoid, projecting in all directions and preaching to us like we are children.

You know, I hear beepers have rather selective recall and are fond of using denial and projection to mask their own fuck ups. Interesting little fact, don't you think?

It's there, clear as day, for people to read. Your holier than thou attitude, condescension, paranoia, denials... it's all there. No matter how much you try to hide it, we can see through it. Can zero in on it every time.

You've managed to withstand my alters. Clearly you do have good understanding of the disordered mind.

It was wrong of me to traumatise you with my dark thoughts, attack you so callously, call you names...especially after the help and support you gave me. I just can't seem to help it. Help me get better. Please.

How do you know the motivation is attention? How do you know it's not just a game? I remember once being toyed with by a psychopath, but I was still learning about it (and still am), and I felt like a mouse being toyed with by a cat. I don't think he wanted attention, he wanted control.

Dr. Ginger, I wasn't speaking to the motivation directly. I was speaking to the fact that lots of attention has been given by the other commentators here. I wouldn't want to speculate out loud on what I think is actually going on in terms of intent, just the observation that lots of attention has been gained.

“When I get too deep, as in too far away from my emotions, I start contemplating things with a more distant mind from morality. I've thought more than once that I could definitely murder someone in cold blood and not feel a thing.”

There is such a thing as depression with psychotic symptoms and manifestations, which are usually transitory (i.e., six months or less). The temporary psychosis, which came about as a result of severe, chronic depression can be treated and healed with the help of a psychiatrist and appropriate medication (i.e., Seraquel is frequently used for psychotic depression). The psychotic symptoms develop and manifest when the severe depression is left untreated for a long time, and this is what it looks like based on this “reader’s” thoughts to the author of this blog. Depression with psychotic symptoms also develops after the impacting effects of post-traumatic stress disorder, which is also transitory and treatable. This happens to individuals who have gone through highly emotional, physical or sexual abuse (or some other traumatic incident of a different nature) at some point in their lives without having been treated in any way. When left untreated in real time (i.e., meaning not just discussing such issues with people on the internet), these issues can turn into something that becomes harder and harder to cope with, and increasingly difficult to hide from others. What’s more, these issues make one self-destructive and destructive toward others, including the destruction of their most loving and caring relationship. However, the realization that one needs to take care of these issues and heal their depressive (with psychotic symptoms) state of mind is the first step in the process. There is absolutely no shame in telling the truth as it is, in seeing a psychiatrist, in taking medication, and in getting the necessary support to overcome such deep, personal problems. Based on my experience from knowing depressed individuals, the reason for perpetually delaying treatment, or for plainly refusing to get treatment, is due to a fixated refusal to make a change. However, when these depressed people experience psychosis, they are not in a position to decide what is best for them, lacking reason and common sense, and no matter how hard you try to reason with them and help, they still continue to act destructive.

“Do you feel like your depression is actual depression? Or is it a byproduct of some other issue, like stress or prolonged frustration, boredom, etc.?….but I do wonder how often diagnosing someone with depression is like diagnosing someone with a runny nose (symptom), without really looking at the cause.”

It can be a result of post-traumatic stress disorder, which makes it quite severe.

There are some strong indications based on this “reader’s” descriptions.

“I'm empathetic to a pathetic degree most days. I feel deeply, remorse is my middle name and I can't manipulate people very well.It really is fascinating to me, even though I know I'm not a sociopath.”

Well, then you’re not a sociopath. You might be fascinated, but you’re not one, and, honestly, your question has been answered in more than one way, including yourself.

What I would also like to mention is that sometimes, severely depressed people claim that they are getting help in real time, but in reality, it is not so. Their reasons for saying so can vary, often minimizing the effects of the depression in their minds or when communicating with others:

“I'm strangely lucky that my depression is a minor form...”

It really does not look like it based on this previous statement, showing inconsistent thinking and certainly not to be taken lightly or to be viewed as depression “in a minor form”: “When I get too deep, as in too far away from my emotions, I start contemplating things with a more distant mind from morality. I've thought more than once that I could definitely murder someone in cold blood and not feel a thing.”

You see, the truth is that getting real help is what would work. And, no, it is never a game: “But the game nearly made me kill myself once, so I never did it again.”

Again, as I've done before, I have also written this in an attempt to help a person who needs to make a change, seek real treatment, follow that treatment and heal.

If you are suffering from depression, I recommend the http://destroydepression.com system.Written by a former sufferer of depression, it teaches a simple 7-step process to eliminate depression from your life.

Depression is actually anger turned inward, IMPOTENCE at lack of choice.A woman suffering from harassment, that MUST keep a lousy low paying jobto care for her child is depressed. (Angry). Perceived self weakness turns to selfhate. The person is actually ANGRY. Physical and emotional abuse brings thison. The only solution is to live in the present moment, and to realized thatraking prior events over in your mind, (Thinking) undercuts YOU. You can'tchange the bothersome event, only your inner reaction to the event.

Depression is a big component of my "personality" and it needs to be managed - more so than numbing out in my case. (I have developed a degree of "control" over that and I use it as a tool - a different post though).

My depression is seasonal and connected to light and warmth, so I have to manage that. This is one of the reasons that Ma likes to describe me as a "bear" (there are others - some more and less flattering...). I tend to be really active in spring and summer. The transition of fall is the hardest because I "feel" the loss of light and heat. I've learned over the years to "ignore" this (I take care of myself, but I try not to let the "feelings" dictate my actions).

The two biggest elements of my depression are anhedonia and the inability to feel warm - physically. I spend 8-10 weeks a year feeling like I have the chills (normal body temperature - tracked that for a while). This is one element that I've seen virtually nothing on, so if anyone else "gets" this, I'm curious to hear about it. I go to pretty elaborate lengths to warm up sometimes.

The anhedonia was a bitch for a while until I came to understand it. Now it's mostly tedious and a drag for the family. I'm much less playful -

And, there's fatigue - lack of sleep is probably the most egregious insult I can inflict on myself (again, I manage this fairly strictly). I deal with that mostly by trying to observe good sleep "hygiene." I used meds for years - loved it - but stopped when we had kids; I'm way too loopy when I take them. Fun for "adults," with kids, not so much. Now I take them rarely (mostly when I have a migraine and I need to "check out").

Also, I've used the term "chemical depression" for years - decades, actually - to describe a state where there really isn't anything wrong with my life, objectively - things can even be "going my way" - but I still feel "depressed."

I can't recall if I've posted on that, but again, here is a term that I don't often hear outside my immediate circle -

I believe that the author of this blog has done a good thing in posting the thoughts of this reader.

In spite of past events stemming from misunderstandings, as you can see, I have been genuinely trying to help a person who suffers internally and exhibits a great deal of anger. True, I have been hurt by this person due to words/actions, but that is because, in reality, there are some souls that are terribly lost until they seek and accept the right type of help, meaning someone in the medical field who pays closer attention, or who has the ability to grasp things in a deeper/experienced way.

While I honestly don't mean to antagonize you (i.e., as a person, since you don’t know me, I have no hateful, bad feelings toward others in me), there is something you have written which concerns me in connection to what I wrote earlier, which is:

"I'm way too loopy when I take them...."

I would not want your statement to deter Dr. Ginger from taking medication(s), since everyone is different, and people react in various ways when taking them. Let's suppose that Dr. Ginger has taken medication(s) in the past, but it might be that Dr. Ginger did not take the right one(s). It might be that it was a form of self-medicating based on self-analysis, so we can't be sure of it. I believe that taking the right medication(s) prescribed by a psychiatrist after proper evaluation and diagnosis would not necessarily result in feeling "loopy," as you have written.

Depression is "chemical," having to do with one's brain chemicals, which need to be balanced over a given period of time. As I wrote before in relation to extended time periods, when this chemical imbalance is left untreated for a very long period of time (i.e., decades), it can turn into temporary psychosis as long as it lasts for a period of six months or less (i.e., also as a result of PTSD, which is a strong indication in this case). What's more, the psychosis can stop and then re-occur, depending on triggers or negative, disturbing events in one's life, including excessive anger brought on by family members with other issues, work/co-workers, unfortunate circumstances and so forth. But, again, as you read this, keep in mind that I don't mean to antagonize.

I believe that becoming "comfortable" with the feeling of being depressed is dangerous, which is another “health risk,” if you will, that one undertakes when being unwilling to seek professional help, or to accept the real possibility of getting better if following through with the prescribed treatment. This is another point in relation to what I wrote above, meaning that starting and then giving up on the necessary treatment, which might be something that Dr. Ginger has done in the past, can result in feeling "loopy" from the medications. However, if taken consistently for as long as they are needed, the medication(s) would work more effectively and, in the process, yield better results.

Depression comes in cycles, which might look or feel "seasonal," so to speak. I would not use this specific word when referring to cycles, but you have mentioned it and I thought about it. And besides feeling angry, depression manifests as deep sadness, excessive exhaustion and an overall feeling of doom. However, once treated, the chemicals balance once again and the symptoms I just mentioned disappear or minimize. It means having the willingness to make a change, because that is where it starts, and Dr. Ginger is at this point at the present time.

HLHaller (this is the rest of it, since I was not able to post everything at once),

The sad part about this is that some people (i.e., I see this when it comes to Dr. Ginger) feel ashamed to open up and seek help/guidance from a psychiatrist in real time, but there is absolutely no shame in doing so. Trusting another person, or trusting those that are close to you in real time (i.e., a family member, significant other or closest friend), with certain issues and traumatic events that happened in the past is never easy, but having the willingness and courage to do so is the brave and best thing to do. Taking that step in trusting someone in real time would make a difference, and I believe that Dr. Ginger needs to do so as well. Life would improve and things would feel so much happier.

But as I wrote in the beginning, don’t take any of this as antagonism, since I don’t mean any of it to cause such a reaction in you, and what's more, I am not a bad person at all. I am only trying to help, and as I previously mentioned, I feel that the author of this blog has done a great thing in posting the thoughts of this “reader.” I think that it was a good decision on her part, since others’ perspectives can possibly make a difference in the lives of those who are suffering, angry and lost.

HLHaller, I'm glad you feel comfortable writing here about your dealings with depression, how it manifests as a fact of life. I recall you posted a link to an article about not diagnosing one's self with depression before first getting all the a**holes out of your life. I think depression can also be a learned behavior pattern to protect the child.

I can also add one other thing we have in common is an Eastern European ancestry, one side being jewish, both parents surviving the war in Poland somehow... I heard on a radio show that due to epigenetic factors, influences of the holocaust, and probably wars in general, have been observed three generations later. there is a memory in us from the life history of our ancestors.

The "Loopy" thing - I used Ambien for a number of years and those are the best years of sleep I've ever had. I miss it. But...

Ambien has this nasty habit of causing amnesia and, at least in my case, decision making that is on par with a black out drunk (at least what I look like on a black out drunk - those were the days...). With my wife, it was, at worst annoying to her, but usually comical - no harm, no foul, as it were. But, like I said, that's no way to parent, so for me, the "easy button" is no longer an option (not to mention the withdrawals - benzo withdrawal syndrome is no fun, so no going back for me...).

Also, to be clear, it's the fact that I can post the sorts of things that I do that is "comfortable" to me. Depression is a drag - that's why I manage it. However, having said that, I don't see pain and suffering as inherently "bad" but rather states that we need to work through - it's that heavy eastern influence. We can disagree on that without mutual antagonism, I hope.

And, again, I am not speaking for Dr. Ginger (she is quite capable of speaking for herself - one of the things I appreciate about her). I don't see any shame in it either - I did it for years. Now I don't feel like I need it. *shrug*

But trying to "talk people into therapy" is a fools errand. You are welcome to it, but I'm not sure you're doing much of anything, good or bad.

I'm glad you find them helpful - it's helpful for me to write about topic, even old ones, to help me stay in touch with my own processes. That's one of the great things about this forum - with few exceptions, people seem to be willing to engage the topic in way that if refreshingly "familiar."

Yeah - the epigenetic component is one of the reasons that I watch the spawn so keenly. As I mentioned before, I put off having kids until later in life - to some degree to help give them a better chance. Having come to understand myself as I have, I hope to be able to give them the answers and tools my folks didn't have for my sister and I.

But, this is yet another reason that I "bristle" when people see it as a disorder - in any other organism, that sort of epigenetic effect would be interesting and accepted (provided all the usual scientific conditions are met). To me this seems a whole lot more like an adaptation than a disorder. As aspect of our natures that we need to comes to grips with, perhaps...

HLHaller, from what I understand of DBT, it's a dialectic between acceptance and change, much like the dialectic between adaptation and disorder.

There's genetics, epigenetics, exposure in the womb, development of the brain in infancy, how the world of social relations gets constructed as well as a sense of identity, and so on -- so in some sense everything that happens is an adaptation -- looked at from a biological point of view. Some adaptations are positive and some negative in the long run.

About depression one gets these side effects like feeling 'bad' about being depressed, perhaps being told that one is not doing enough about it, a kind of implicit or explicit blaming, and also the fact that a significant number of cases are 'treatment resistant' given the current state of psychiatric knowledge.

I never did DBT, but I hear people singing it's praises. My "hard core" therapy days were in the mid 1990's, so DBT was still pretty young, if I recall the timeline.

What we focused on was more about transactional content ("what the fuck are they saying, really and what does that really mean to me?"). From there, I spent some time on "how do I really want to respond to that if at all?" Along the way, I came to see how many of my choices were at the root of my problems and I needed to make better choices. In a sense, I re-parented myself (and worked through forgiving my parents, and...).

That's the crux of it - I don't think there's any real magic to any of it. I wanted to start acting in ways that promote a stable but interesting life. Finding that balance has been kind of where I am these days. With the spawn, I'm trying to push more toward stability...at least at the moment. 8)~

But that feeling "bad" crap - yeah, I worked through that too...I had hurt some people (and I still don't feel bad about a lot of it) and I had to reconcile that as well.

There is depression and then there is severe depression with psychotic symptoms.

"Depression is a drag - that's why I manage it. However, having said that, I don't see pain and suffering as inherently "bad" but rather states that we need to work through - it's that heavy eastern influence. We can disagree on that without mutual antagonism, I hope."

One cannot just "work through" severe depression with psychotic symptoms, and hope that it somehow goes away in time, without the help of a psychiatrist and medication to eliminate and/or minimize the disturbing psychosis coupled with violent words/actions.

Trying to help a person in this situation is difficult, and no one is "implicitly or explicitly blaming" the person in question for experiencing depression and the psychotic symptoms. That would be cruel, and I am not a bad person. However, during the periods of lucidity, one can understand the need to apologize in order to go forward and improve (i.e. my previous comments explain this in greater detail).

I saw this in another comment, and felt that it has to be mentioned. A person who resists treatment is a person who does not want to change or to follow through with the prescribed treatment. It takes effort (lots of work), and the willingness to heal. During those times, the person should also be able to understand and feel remorse. Also, pertaining to an infant's brain, that has nothing to do with depression and psychotic symptoms in this particular case.

However, yes, and I agree with this point. Acceptance and change are a part of life. They come with growth and a deeper understanding of oneself. I also believe that trying to help someone with starting real therapy and taking medication can make a difference in a person's life.

"But trying to "talk people into therapy" is a fools errand. You are welcome to it, but I'm not sure you're doing much of anything, good or bad."

Let me ask you the following, and again, I don't mean to argue at all: Why wouldn't you want this person to begin therapy or to take medications? I certainly don't find it pointless or foolish. It would help Dr. Ginger a great deal if everyone would be supportive instead of increasing resistance, since, truth be told, this is what it looks like from here.

I see, but being supportive instead of increasing resistance in him along with your "friend," Dr. SciFi, (i.e., because Dr. Ginger is a male) could possibly change this person's life. It would be the right thing to do, considering the psychotic symptoms and his latest comment to me about, in his words, "being full of shit" when all I have been trying to do was help in a sincere way. Obviously, he is not lucid if he thinks that I am trying to manipulate him. I am aware of what's on this website and the way that people treat one another, but I am not one of these people. There have been some misunderstandings in the past, but my presence here has never been to manipulate anyone.

First - I don't give a rats ass if Dr. Ginger is male, female, or a hermaphrodite. I've used the female pronoun and have yet to be corrected by anyone other than you. So, if Dr. Ginger is not happy with the gender I'm using, I expect I will be set right. It's not like Dr. Ginger is a "delicate tulip." Otherwise I will assume that I've got it right or it doesn't matter.

Second, umm...no. You are full of shit. Nice try. You aren't going to convince me to suggest Dr. Ginger "get help." Good luck with your next target.

I don't have a target, and, honestly, you should remain as calm as possible at this time. Again, I only tried to help, and insulting me is pointless on your part. You're agitating yourself for no reason at all.

One always has a choice. Once one takes steps toward healing the depression, since it is the depression in itself and its effects that feel like impotence, one would realize this important point.

"The only solution is to live in the present moment, and to realized thatraking prior events over in your mind, (Thinking) undercuts YOU. You can'tchange the bothersome event, only your inner reaction to the event."

It is not the only solution, and burying or avoiding things by artificially "living in the present" is never a good idea. Another solution would be to seek help from a trained professional. There is medication, too, which can be taken for a while until things feel less cloudy and angry in one's head.

Yes, changing the reaction to the even is what therapy is for, but the important thing is to change it in the right, appropriate way. If you do not, the anger persists and turns into a huge problem, leading to destruction. So, if the anger is still there and continues to destroy and self-hate "in the present time," it means that one needs to make some changes and find the right reactions to those events.

Self-hate can turn into hating others, as well as into destroying the most loving relationship in one's life. So, as I wrote in a different post, having a conscience is not only present in the mind, but also felt in one's heart. For instance, when I apologize to a person, it comes from the heart, because that is also my conscience.

@StaySmart, Sometimes people say cruel things just for the hell of it. I've found that when happens, it's usually their issue not mine. I would try not to take it personally. After all, Dr. G doesn't even know you.

"@StaySmart, Sometimes people say cruel things just for the hell of it. I've found that when happens, it's usually their issue not mine. I would try not to take it personally. After all, Dr. G doesn't even know you.

You appear to be a very thoughtful and caring person."

Grendel, all I did was try to help, but, overall, there was lots of "interference" from people who have tried to pointlessly insult me. And by the way, the wasn't humor at all. I do hope that you realize that.

SS, I realize that you didn't find it funny. I did; but then, I work with criminals, who make those same remarks and usually they mean nada. It's all show, biting humor and/or venting, an expression of anger that's done before you can say Boo! You found it hurtful, and I can see why. It's true comments here can be nasty: that's sociopathworld. Actually not just socioworld but the world of the internet, period.

Where you and me differ is that I'm not convinced that Dr. Ginger can be diagnosed by you -- therefore prescribed help -- via some of her comments, or as you might put it, acting out on the internet. I think you struck a few nerves not because you want to help, but because your tone is, to be honest, a tad preachy and superior. How can you assume that you know what kind of treatment Dr. Ginger needs? Are you a shrink?

"I think you struck a few nerves not because you want to help, but because your tone is, to be honest, a tad preachy and superior."

"Grendel,"

It is not true. I truly wanted to help, and no one can tell me otherwise; however, people don't like it when certain things are shown to them, especially when having to face reality. But, as I previously wrote, I only exist for people that appreciate me, staying away from those who are evil, hurtful and manipulative.

Hi,I have a question for/about Sociopaths. Do you have noticed sometime/often a link between sociopathy and hyperactivity/Attention deficit?When I read ME's book, It looks like she was quite an active woman...and most of the people I know with sociopaths I know looks to me like hyperactive people.

Is there any quiet and low tension sociopath? (i'm not speaking about depression of course).

I read a study that stated a high comorbidity in prison populations of people with AsPD -- that many had ADHD (above the baseline rate in the population) as well as addiction issues and those tended to do the worst. Just a vague recollection...

In fact I got the impression from the study that just about all their sample of incarcerated people with AsPD had a significant comorbid disorder or mental illness.

Depression isn't all bad: it can deepen a person and cause them to self-reflect, teach them to discriminate between what's important and what's not. In fact, there are many kinds of depression, and some types are perfectly legitimate. Who isn't depressed about the state of the world today? Who doesn't believe that the human race isn't racing toward a cliff? Who doesn't find it appalling that the image of a person means more than their essence? Why do humans continue to generate so much unnecessary suffering?

These are not happy thoughts. And thus may seem to lead nowhere but apathy or destruction. But the man who never faces deep questions and troubling issues lives life only on the surface: All great art embodies both the comedy and sorrow of life, the joy and the tears. There can be no great art or great human being without descending to the depths. In fact, one cannot see the light without first knowing the dark. Even Jesus had to face the devil before he could become the Christ.

So, while I do get Stay Smart's comments, and indeed have counselled thousands of people, I don't necessarily buy into chemical healing route. It works for some but not for others. And for some, it's rather like being part of a grand experiment in which, like Alice, we take pills that make us grow first small, then big, then turn us into zombies. Of course the reader who sent M.E. this post needs help, and she/he should find it in realtime. But I would urge this person to also find alternative ways of understanding and healing with his/her pain. For myself, the pills never worked. What worked was finding different lenses through which to view my pain. Art, spiritual practices, Nature, meditation, yoga -- all these things and many more have brought me to a place not of so-called happiness, as in the gushy/giddy kind we always see in media, but to a place of caring watchfulness and careful engagement. I observe the world and try to pierce the massive illusion we call modern civilization. I can't say I'm at peace but I do feel authentic, alive in every atom. I see the beauty in all things and try to foster it. I see the horror and try to alleviate it. And I try to articulate that vision through my art. Because that's all I have to give. I may not be able to save the world, but if I can touch one sentient being and move their soul, then I have made a difference. That is good enough.

Perhaps depression, like love, like hate, all serve a higher purpose.

From the intro to the Upanishads, translated by Juan Mascaro: Brahman is described as immament and transcendent, within all and outside all. If the All is imagined as a triangle, the apex might be imagined as God transcendent, who in his expansion creates matter out of himself, not out of nothing, and thus becomes immanent until the end of evolution when the Immanent has all again become transcendent in an ascension of evolution towards him. why? For the joy of creation. Why is there evil? For the joy of good arising from it. Why darkness? That light may shine the more. Why suffering? For the instruction of the soul and the joy of sacrifice. Why the infinite play of creation and evolution? For Anandam, pure joy.

SS, "not psychotic depression." Tell that to those who believe in the bible, St. John's revelations. I would not be so quick to judge the wayward streams of nature. How do you know which psychosis is a true vision, which is a demented dream? ;-))

@HL and Dr.SciFi, I very much enjoyed reading your comments. I've read about epigenetics, etc. Very interesting. Makes complete sense to me. The body knows from whence it came, carries within its cells the history of evolution and memories of past generations.

I'm sure we don't feel chemical depression. it's not possible. also, it's all in ur own hands: i never get sad. just because i managed not to have that feeling. i meant sociopathicily (! :D ) sadness. the meaningless sadness.

There's genetics, epigenetics, exposure in the womb, development of the brain in infancy...."

So, what Dr. SciFi is really saying if you read carefully is this person's brain did not develop properly because of "exposure to the womb" of the mother (i.e., as in being the mother's fault and blaming her), and then even more so during infancy, akin to a defective, maladapted brain.

It may have nothing to do with the mother at all, but may, in fact have to do with happened to the grand mother or great grand mother. As I recall, the genes can get altered in a ways that can be reversed in later generations - sometimes many. Until then, however, the activity of the gene is "triggered" regardless of what the mother does.

However, what the mother does while the baby in the womb and what happens the first three to six months after birth can have a big influence (e.g. Tabaco).

Evolution works in ways we are only beginning really to understand. For instance I read once that there are viruses that cause chronic disease that skip generations... as well the stress (for instance) a mother is under whilst pregnant also is associated with hormone release that affect development of the embryo. Life and our own personal development is a highly contingent process. I think this is also related to what Grendel wrote about.

"So, what Dr. SciFi is really saying if you read carefully is this person's brain did not develop properly because of "exposure to the womb" of the mother (i.e., as in being the mother's fault and blaming her), and then even more so during infancy, akin to a defective, maladapted brain."

Grendel,

At that point in time, I was actually trying to help Dr. Ginger, since he is constantly bullied by others on this site who play mean games. I thought they were trying to insult him.

@SS, "influences of the holocaust, and probably wars in general, have been observed three generations later. there is a memory in us from the life history of our ancestors." is the statement I was referring to. As for blaming mother, might as well since it's often primarily Mom who's most often maligned by shrinks and the public, labeled the worst and/or more influential of the parental pair. Yes, I understand attachment disorders and maladaptive behaviors; they are valid as far as they go. But to my mind all life is in constant flux, all organisms are adapting all of the time. The ones who not only survive but thrive, do not dwell on past mistakes. They learn from them. I took Dr.SciFi's comments not as blaming mothers but as scientific evidence that our thoughts, feelings and actions (memories) resonate throughout time and matter, in our DNA. If this is true, we are constantly adapting to both the ancient past and the present. The brain is plastic, our senses limited, for a reason.

The discussion of epigenetic stated with DocSF at 8:29AM. Go ahead, scroll up and check, we'll still be here. You tried to make it about Dr. Ginger so that you can keep trolling for attention. Almost clever...

@Dr.SciFi, I find the implications of epigenetics amazing and exciting. It touches beyond the whole mommy/daddy thing as being the primary genesis of maladaptive behaviors. That's liberating, and actually creates a deeper bond with others, by seeing how entwined our psyches and bodies really are. Life is a collective experience, shared via our genes; the shape of a person's life is not solely contingent to his individual, finite experience. There's hope in that.

@SS It relates to your discussion of Dr. Ginger's so-called maladaptive remarks. Just because someone on sociopathworld makes violent remarks doesn't mean they need help: check out normal web site and read all of the horrible stuff people say. A mom relentlessly taunted her daughter's ex-friend into suicide . . . . I don't see that here. I see off-the-cuff dark humor. Nothing more.

Grendel, well I think there is more than just dark humour -- although I do appreciate that too. I am not talking about Dr. Ginger but the comments section as a whole. There's no need to justify anything here. Isn't that the point? Anyhow there was an eruption not so long ago of the same instance and in a similar way. i decided just to ignore all that. the scroll feature is handy.

I think it is also true that epigenetics conveys survival advantages. Advantages and disadvantages -- that's true of many things. For instance there's been some debate as to whether certain mental illnesses convey with them creativity and drive, in the person or their family members who are not afflicted.

"@SS It relates to your discussion of Dr. Ginger's so-called maladaptive remarks. Just because someone on sociopathworld makes violent remarks doesn't mean they need help: check out normal web site and read all of the horrible stuff people say. A mom relentlessly taunted her daughter's ex-friend into suicide . . . . I don't see that here. I see off-the-cuff dark humor. Nothing more."

Grendel,

As I wrote before, I was actually trying to help Dr. Ginger understand things, since they were playing mean games or rather being "off topic." I did not bring up the subject of maladaptive and disordered brains as related to epigenetics. They're twisting everything around, and they're being quite obvious.

Dr.SciFi, yes, there's a bite to many comments. The whole internet is clogged with such comments. I don't believe that means that all those people need help. Anyway, I agree there's no need to justify, and that this whole conversation has gotten too mired in giving advice, labeling, diagnosing. I'm guilty of it, too. Diagnosing someone as this or that on socioworld seems to me a waste of brain cells -- I'll leave that to doctors.

As for creativity and illness . . . that's a huge topic. And the baby gremlins just arrived . . . see ya downstream.

Grendel, I'd like to hear your thoughts on creativity and illness. I think sometimes we want to romanticize afflictions or see the silver lining where there is none -- other than at the grand evolutionary scale that life is about randomness and selection -- or deselection -- removal of the unfit. But I also think sometimes there really is a silver lining...

Never read it. What's it about? I was once targeted by a socio just like SS. I have long had an interest in this population as well as BPD, but I learned a long time ago from trying to engage people in discussions about it that they aren't interested in the topic so I accepted that it was just kind of my own little quirk. It was someone I had actually met from the internet. No laughing :P The first time I met him in person I spose he had the whole stereotypical façade. Good looking, charming, successful, intelligent, but upon the first time meeting him I picked up on him being a pathological liar. I didn't directly call him out on it because it would just be rude, but I decided I wouldn't talk to him again. He kept contacting me after that, and insisting we meet up again. Maybe things wouldn't have stood out to other people, but everything just struck me as over the top with this guy. We were sitting at the bar, and I remember he leaned over and he said, so being a psychologist, do you know anything about....sociopaths?" lol, I just smiled because I pretty much knew what I was dealing with at that point. I let it continue though because I wanted a chance to observe. Extremely intelligent and sophisticated with his games. I was impressed :) Was I lured and charmed? Great grandmother fuck no

Dr. G, my experience was with someone I guess is closer to malignant narcissism as well as a pathological liar.

there is this overweening need for attention and the propensity to project/invert what is actually taking place. I don't think socios need to justify what they are doing so much and therefore don't tend to come across as creepy this particular way -- reinventing reality as a matter of course, not just when it might be needed. Why give one's game away so easily?

I'm not sure where this idea that sociopaths need to lurk in the shadows is coming from. The author of this blog recently wrote about Cheny needing to lurk in the shadows. I'm not sure how being the vice president of the most powerful country in the world is lurking in the shadows. How about the blog about the corporate psychopath? He seemed to relish being the center of attention in that little microcosm. Nero? Tepes? Could name numerous others. Narcissistic personality disorder is a construct just like depression is a construct. You seem to have clear idea in your mind of what narcissism is. I've said it before on this site, both sociopaths and borderlines are narcissistic, and we know what the sociopathic brain looks like from neuroimagining technology that has been used, and we know what the borderline brain looks like, but I have yet to see any solid evidence that NPD is a stand alone disorder.

Dr. G. I am not sure if the above comment was addressed to me. If you read "people of the lie" Peck gives some examples of what he calls malignant narcissism. That is what I was referring to. Being narcissistic and being pathologically narcissistic are not usually considered to be all that similar in what I have read.

HLHaller - About "Forget that I exist." - There is such a thing as karma, and those who have intentionally made fun of me, those who have mocked me in all of this, as well as those who have taken advantage of my help will get what they deserve. I know it to be so, because my intentions have been good. My heart has been in the right place.

I also found this paper of interest comparing bpd and diagnosed npd patients: "shame in patients with narcissistic personality disorder" Psychiatry ResearchVolume 215, Issue 2, Pages 429–437, February 28, 2014. type the title into google scholar and the free researchgate version should appear.

Yes, and many supported the removal of it in the new edition, and also there has been so much criticism for the lack of evidence for many of the disorders in the new DSM, that many clinicians have reverted back to using the forth edition.

Dr. Ginger, I realize there are problems with the NPD diagnosis -- don't get me wrong on that. My professional qualifications are nil in this area, so I don't claim expertise. I am a scientist and a scholar at heart.

I have read some though in this area and I have my thoughts about things and want to learn more. The DSM IV (the older version) also included NPD.

I think there is a problem much more general regarding diagnosising PDs than just with NPD btw. The DSM standard version did not change as far as I know in categorizing in any significant way the PDs at all from version IV to V. If I am wrong on this let me know.

I can also say that I found the descriptions of cases in Peck's book compelling at a personal level. That is subjective but it also gives meaning to the construct.

My doctorate is in a far away field of theoretical physics. I don't see that as being relevant here, which is why I didn't state this earlier.

I did see a lecture recently (I tried to find it again, without luck) from an Ivy League school (again, not sure which) where a clinician came out and said, "I have to put this one [the case file] otherwise the hospital won't get paid."

This is where I see the "therapy industrial complex" as being part of the problem...

Now this could get really interesting! I am looking forward to wherever this goes...

People of the lie is about malignant narcissism in individuals and society and what constitutes evil -- a psychology of evil. Well there is some stuff in there I found interesting even if it is dated and eccentric at times.

Peck states that psychopaths cannot be evil because they have no notion of morality and therefore cannot make evil choices -=- he ascribes evil to laziness and (malignant) narcissism and gives some interesting examples from his practise. It is a short and easy read, downloaded for free I found.

HI, everybody. I have not been back for a long time and reading today's posts remind me some of teh good old days where we had a psychic that acted just like Stay Smart. She was persistent, you could not get rid of her, she was causing to yield over 500 comments a day, lol. She trolled really well, and I wonder if she's the reincarnation.

Stay Stmart, is your mother a psychiatrist? Do you like her? Who is the depressed person who really hurt you? Your mom?

Do you have any idea why you're pissing people off when yo believe all you want to do is help? Is it possible that you'd be a better person if you didn't try to help unless someone was willing to pay you for your help? They think your attempts are about control. Can you stop and think if there is indeed any chance your efforts are about control, and what's hard is to let go of trying controlling your environment? Can you control yourself to be able to let that go?

See, I'm just like you here. You didn't ask for your help, but you're screaming for help between the lines. Now I'll go ask myself if I wrote all this to help you or to control you. Boy, one has to love those mirrors...

At the beginning her name was Erin, then she tried to exist in many different names. Eventually, we all grew to accept her--NOT.Sociopath World: Daily ShowJul 23, 2011Erin, do you know why noone likes you? Because you are a frigid frustrating bitch. Everything you say asks for a punch in the face. I bet your socio boyfriend is nothing but imaginary cause I can't see a sociopath actually living ...http://www.sociopathworld.com/Sociopath World: Socios on TV: Breaking Bad's GusSep 23, 2011Erin won't give you consolation luke. She is just another victim. It's pathetic that you came in here guns blazing but you can't take even a dish from me. Even zWaq lasted longer than you. He was just like you luke. Long winded ...http://www.sociopathworld.com/Sociopath World: Sociopath(ic) (part 2)Sep 16, 2011Why the fuck would homeland security put a circle over their office that they spy on people in??? that's retarded erin. They wouldn't do that. I'm sure they control google earth anyway. They're not gonna put anything that might ...http://www.sociopathworld.com/Sociopath World: Anatomy of a murdererJul 09, 2011Erin it sounds like you got used to shutting yourself down in order to protect yourself from people like your mother. If you cant feel anything you cant be hurt so you made a place you can go in order to stay safe. (And sociopaths ...

It really is all shits and giggles. When I first got here I actually seriously got scared of what I was reading, then over time everything got lightened up. Not sure if this was the same for others, too. But, it sure lost that initial entertainment value eventually. I'm pretty sure a lot of people learned a lot about themselves here, watching their own reactions to such unusual views without hold back.

Great site for character development in stories. It's really amazing to me that ME is not bored with it yet. She is in a tough stage in her life, I hope she finds her new equilibrium soon.

I do agree - dark shits and giggles indeed. I'm an engineer, but I can seen where characters might be inspired from here...

Change isn't easy, but from her recent post is does sound like she continues to have the support of are least he fiends and family, if not her church (don't know anything one way or another, but her family and friends seem intact so...).

This continues to be a useful "mirror" for me, so I'll keep at it. 8)~

HLHaller - It's not SS, because she wasn't on this site at that time back in 2011. SS has been pretty new here. Look at the differences in writing style, expression, words, etc Definitely not the same person. And, btw, did ya know? SS is a male. I know from another site

People like SS remind me of the hunter in the "parable" below. I don't think they are "here for the hunting."

A guy went out bear hunting one day. He saw a bear and shot it. It was a perfect shot in the head. He walked over to retrieve the dead bear and it wasn't there on the ground. He was wondering where it went. Then he felt a tap on his shoulder. He looked back and it was the bear. The bear said, "Grab your ankles." So the hunter did and the bear started ramming him up the ass. The next day, the hunter went back out hunting with a bigger gun. He thought, "I am going to get that damn bear this time!" He saw the bear, shot him twice, then he noticed the bear was again not on the ground when he tried to retrieve it. He got another tap on the shoulder. You guessed it, the bear again, saying, "Grab your ankles." He rammed the guy up the ass again. The next day the guy went out again, this time he had a 50 caliber machine gun with Armor piercing, explosive tip rounds. He saw the bear and went crazy on him and filled him full of lead! Then he got another tap on the shoulder. He looked back and saw the bear. The bear said, "You know, "I am beginning to think that you are not really coming out here to hunt!"

"November 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM this is fucking brilliant. sometimes we empaths can be very dictatorial"

"November 13, 2014 at 9:17 AM

Real humans need to warned and made aware of the sociopath. Sociopaths are not humans, but rather "It's", things. They are nothing more than cardboard cutouts that lie, destroy and manipulate. They are disgusting "things". One of God's mistakes, (not that they care)."

"November 10, 2014 at 4:34 AM In your case, I would suggest you seek out Casey Anthony. IMAGINE! Youcould be her SAVIOR! A lonley, unloved girl (two years your Jr.) who for allintents and purposes feels she's in purgatory and might "live(?)" 70 more years.There is ONLY ONE person who can help her! Only ONE person who can bringher back to life: M.E. Thomas. If Casey recieved the M.E. treatment she would be putty in your hands. This must be the next big cause of your life!Recycling a life!"

Just logged in and am shaking my shaggy mane over the nutty comments made by Stay Smart and thinking to myself, you can't stay smart till you first get smart. But maybe SS was referring to everyone else's brains and not hers. lol

The topic of depression juxtaposed to sociopathy really interests me. I get the blues when the weather turns cloudy. And I have the chills as well, just like HLHaller describes. I have never been depressed per se. Nothing that ever required medication. Nothing that made me miss a day at work. But I do get periods when my thoughts are darker and I have less energy. Still do.

However, I have certainly been less "depressed" since my socio friend put me through hell. Perhaps I had to survive and understand what is important to me. Perhaps it made me more resilient to life's little set backs. Perhaps i can analyze situations better and better comprehend why I feel sad. I apply more logic to situations, and try to not always take the blame for how I am feeling. If someone was mean to me, or if I feel I might have hurt someone (both of them feel bad), I try to understand why they were mean to me, and whether they were wrong or I was, to what degree, and what I could learn from it, about myself in particular and about similar situations in the future. If I hurt someone, I try to make it up to them later, perhaps discussing the subject again. Some people are so easily hurt, though. I used to be one of those. Not as much anymore. Not sure if this is permanent in me. But it certainly feels better. More inner peace.

So in some ways, people could say I got a bit higher on the cluster b scale. Maybe I used to be closer to cluster c in the past, and relentless exposure to a sociopath made me realize it and work at getting out of that cluster. Just a thought. Can anyone relate?

I read a study once that stated that people with AsPD can get depressed if they are not able to act on their antisocial impulses, for instance if they are incarcerated. I'm sure one can question the validity of any paper or set of them in this kind of field, but I did think that was a curious result.

I'm The Reader who wrote this email exchange turned article, and with all due respect, your diagnosis via internet is way off. I suffer from neither PTSD nor "psychotic depression." When I talked about contemplating that I could murder someone, the emphasis was on the "could" part. I don't have visions of some grand scene wherein I kill someone, I'm just aware it is an action I could accomplish when I'm numb.

Also, when I say my depression is a minor form, I mean that it leaves very little impact on the way I can live a "normal" life. You seem to think that I'm self-destructive and hurting others, but actually I don't inflict (much) harm on anyone. Much like M.E., I can keep my mask in place pretty well, and most people don't notice when I get into my numb state. My friends can notice, but usually only if it lasts for more than a few days.

Perhaps I should also point out that my deep depression stage hits me perhaps once every couple of months or so. I know the warning signs, so I'm able to start planning ahead when they start. It also tends to only last in my adulthood for no more than a couple of days. The rest of the time, my emotions are wide awake and in working order.

I don't know who hurt you in the past, but you should be careful about trying to help people. I actually have been seeing therapists throughout my life, and it's not exactly a dirty secret. My family and friends are aware about my issues, so it's not like they don't know why I get a darker personality sometimes. Your advice, while well meaning, kind of leaves out some important elements, like not just getting professional help but also talking with the people who matter the most. I've got a working support system, and I'm not at all ashamed or afraid to get help.

There was no abuse that I suffered in the past to make me this way. I was just made up like this. I live with it, I work around it, and I get shit done regardless. I don't need to be helped or healed or saved or whatever. I appreciate what you were trying to do, but next time be a bit less jumping the gun on your assumptions, please.

“I'm The Reader who wrote this email exchange turned article, and with all due respect, your diagnosis via internet is way off. I suffer from neither PTSD nor "psychotic depression." When I talked about contemplating that I could murder someone, the emphasis was on the "could" part. I don't have visions of some grand scene wherein I kill someone, I'm just aware it is an action I could accomplish when I'm numb.”

I understand, and I’m glad that you have clarified your points. I am also glad to hear that you don’t suffer from psychotic depression, which can be a very hard thing to handle and overcome. I would like you to know that my comments were not mean or accusatory, but clarifying these points is a good thing.

“Also, when I say my depression is a minor form, I mean that it leaves very little impact on the way I can live a "normal" life. You seem to think that I'm self-destructive and hurting others, but actually I don't inflict (much) harm on anyone. Much like M.E., I can keep my mask in place pretty well, and most people don't notice when I get into my numb state. My friends can notice, but usually only if it lasts for more than a few days.”

I know that a high number of depressed people can be self-destructive, and that was my main point, which had more to do with “concern” as opposed to pointing my finger in your direction.

“Perhaps I should also point out that my deep depression stage hits me perhaps once every couple of months or so. I know the warning signs, so I'm able to start planning ahead when they start. It also tends to only last in my adulthood for no more than a couple of days. The rest of the time, my emotions are wide awake and in working order.”

These details clarify things even more now, and I can understand your situation so much better than before. I’m glad that you decided to write to me about it, since things sound much more defined and comprehensible at the moment.

“I don't know who hurt you in the past, but you should be careful about trying to help people. I actually have been seeing therapists throughout my life, and it's not exactly a dirty secret. My family and friends are aware about my issues, so it's not like they don't know why I get a darker personality sometimes. Your advice, while well meaning, kind of leaves out some important elements, like not just getting professional help but also talking with the people who matter the most. I've got a working support system, and I'm not at all ashamed or afraid to get help.

There was no abuse that I suffered in the past to make me this way. I was just made up like this. I live with it, I work around it, and I get shit done regardless. I don't need to be helped or healed or saved or whatever. I appreciate what you were trying to do, but next time be a bit less jumping the gun on your assumptions, please.

As I wrote above, having clarified your situation has helped me understand things better as well. Know that my intent was not bad at all, I honestly didn’t mean to sound belittling in my comments about this, and it is great to hear that you have a working support system, since that is so important when it comes to depression. I believe that writing this to me was a really good decision on your part. :)

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Of course, my default is still to intuitively analyze every outcome and situation and achieve the best result, but it's more interesting to let people remain a variable and go in their own direction, rather than nudging them in the direction I prefer. Interacting with people WITHOUT trying to control them is a new paradigm for me.