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Jul 2008

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Somewhere On the Darkside...

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I agree Chadman, we definitely DID NOT win the battles along the LOS all season long. It could very well be that simple, but methinks not. I think there are a variety of problems with the team right now. I think the QB is a self-centered ego-maniac, though a very talented one, and ego-maniac can be a good thing in the right balance when it comes to being "the" guy. I think that balance was lost this year when Haley entered the picture. I think Larry Foote is a big hole in the middle of our defense, he can't cover and is often too slow in pursuit to the RB. He showed flashes in the pan blitzing this season, but in all he was inadequate. Our WR's failed to get open consistently down the stretch, which caused Ben to fall back into old habits of holding the football for an eternity and that led to too many sacks (along with woeful OL play) and forced throws which in turn led to turnovers. Couple with all of that the tendency for our WR's to drop passes and also to fumble the ball, hell sometimes without even being hit. That's more disaster, and we were just giving the ball game away. Add to all of that the inability for this entire team to stay healthy. I mean, was there a player this season who didn't miss time due to some sort of injury? I think Timmons and Keisel played all season if my recollection serves me correctly. This off-season presents plenty of time for gut-checking, and this team needs to do just that at length.

This has been a pretty crappy year of football all the way around, my only hope is we don't have to sit and watch the Pats* or the Ratbirds in the Super Bowl. That would be the arsenic sauce on the sourkraut and toadstool sandwich that we called the 2012 NFL season.

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We don't have a top defense. Even Phil Simms said before the game we have a ranking but it isn't a defense that makes game changing plays. His words, but exactly what I have been saying.

You are right--it is time to go a different direction on defense. As you correctly stated, the league knows how to beat LeBeau. This league is all about attacking the QB every play, every down. Not freaking rushing three players against 5 or 6. We saw yesterday how a defensive line can play when the four DL are committed to going after the QB and not screwing around scheming and trying to fool people when they just fool themselves. We also saw a large number of rookies and first year players contributing in the Bumgals defense because they didn't have to spend three years learning the system. Just move them into the positions they have always played and let them go.

Put Woodley at DE because he can't play OLB without getting hurt and give him one mission, get the QB. If we don't change this defense we will continue a third year trend with the worst sack totals in decades.

The defense was good enough to have a winning season. Last I checked this defense held the #12 scoring offense to two field goals. The offense?.... bleh, that's the only place to find true fault.

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Originally Posted by SDSteel1

We have a HOF QB?? He singlehandedly lost the last 2 games. We lost today because the only guy who didn't seem to realize it was a playoff game was your HOF QB. The season in a nutshell came down to Ben sucking.

I agree with this. Ben is living on a reputation that no longer matches reality. He is supposed to be clutch and instead he is garbage when we need him most. Take away his sloppy, bone head plays, and we win this game. I am sick of his sloppy BS. And then add in Tomlin's sloppy decision making (who makes a 56-yarder at Heinz, but the head coach isn't aware of it?) and you have the recipe for many losses. It's really broken at this point. Art better roll up his sleeves and get to work.

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I think there are a variety of problems with the team right now. I think the QB is a self-centered ego-maniac, though a very talented one, and ego-maniac can be a good thing in the right balance when it comes to being "the" guy. I think that balance was lost this year when Haley entered the picture.

This. /\ /\ /\ /\. I don't think Ben is even a real leader at this point; I don't think his teammates respect him because he is far too often, too sloppy. Gee whiz, he apologized to every teammate after this game. Well F--k you Ben. Why don't get take it more seriously BEFORE you lose the season, you jack @ss. I am sick of him being so careless. He no longer makes up for it with his clutch play. Now he simply LOSSES games instead of saving them. I am SICK OF IT.

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We don't have a top defense. Even Phil Simms said before the game we have a ranking but it isn't a defense that makes game changing plays. His words, but exactly what I have been saying.

You are right--it is time to go a different direction on defense. As you correctly stated, the league knows how to beat LeBeau. This league is all about attacking the QB every play, every down. Not freaking rushing three players against 5 or 6. We saw yesterday how a defensive line can play when the four DL are committed to going after the QB and not screwing around scheming and trying to fool people when they just fool themselves. We also saw a large number of rookies and first year players contributing in the Bumgals defense because they didn't have to spend three years learning the system. Just move them into the positions they have always played and let them go.

Put Woodley at DE because he can't play OLB without getting hurt and give him one mission, get the QB. If we don't change this defense we will continue a third year trend with the worst sack totals in decades.

I agree with these points and it's getting depressing. The "tricky" crap is over. The waiting 3 years before a player can product on the field is moronic at this point. So much wasted talent on this team, because it is being mis-managed. Depressing

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Originally Posted by lloydroid

I agree with these points and it's getting depressing. The "tricky" crap is over. The waiting 3 years before a player can product on the field is moronic at this point. So much wasted talent on this team, because it is being mis-managed. Depressing

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Originally Posted by lloydroid

I agree with this. Ben is living on a reputation that no longer matches reality. He is supposed to be clutch and instead he is garbage when we need him most. Take away his sloppy, bone head plays, and we win this game. I am sick of his sloppy BS. And then add in Tomlin's sloppy decision making (who makes a 56-yarder at Heinz, but the head coach isn't aware of it?) and you have the recipe for many losses. It's really broken at this point. Art better roll up his sleeves and get to work.

With all due respect- this is rubbish. Ben was going great before he got seriously hurt. When neither Batch or Leftwich instilled a great degree of confidence, Ben was rushed back in to start (as is what always seems to happen) & has looked out of sorts since then. Do we totally disregard the beginning of the year to emphasis your argument?

Of course, as Ben was doing great, the Defense was struggling. Now that the defense is playing well, Ben is struggling. It's been one of those sorts of years.

For all the 'blame' Ben deserves for his subpar games since his return- it's still the 8 fumble game & Brown's double-fumble brain meltdown that cost the Steelers 2 wins since Ben's return. You take away Brown's return-fumble & the Steelers beat the Cowboys. You take away the 8 fumbles vs the Browns, and you don't lose by 6 points.

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Originally Posted by Chadman

With all due respect- this is rubbish. Ben was going great before he got seriously hurt. When neither Batch or Leftwich instilled a great degree of confidence, Ben was rushed back in to start (as is what always seems to happen) & has looked out of sorts since then. Do we totally disregard the beginning of the year to emphasis your argument?

Of course, as Ben was doing great, the Defense was struggling. Now that the defense is playing well, Ben is struggling. It's been one of those sorts of years.

For all the 'blame' Ben deserves for his subpar games since his return- it's still the 8 fumble game & Brown's double-fumble brain meltdown that cost the Steelers 2 wins since Ben's return. You take away Brown's return-fumble & the Steelers beat the Cowboys. You take away the 8 fumbles vs the Browns, and you don't lose by 6 points.

You put 2 wins in the Steelers column, and how do the playoffs look?

There's no use trying to convince those that believe Ben is nothing more than an average quarterback playing behind a great defense for the past 9 years as anything different, it's futile. This year alone through week 9 the media, fans and pundits had Ben in the MVP race and then the freak injury on what appeared to be an innocuous type tackle and the season spiraled out of control. If anything, it proves Ben's worth to the team rather than his lack of ability.

The same with the defense, now its not good enough to simply hold the other team to miniscule numbers of points, but they should be putting points on the board as the #1 defense in the NFL. If you're expecting points from the defense then you're admitting the offense has issues. The defense's job is to get the ball back to the offense without allowing points and regardless of where that puts the ball it then becomes the offense's job to score the points. Hoping for a pick 6, strip sack and score, blocked punt and score, etc is folly; stop the opponent from scoring and put your offense on the field, that's the goal. It's nice when that happens at midfield or in positive territory, but it shouldn't be a requirement of a good defense and that's what the Steelers had a good defense.

Some fans lose their marbles when things go south, fire Tomlin, Lebeau is old, Haley is an idiot (same fans that wanted Arians gone, now want Haley run out of town on a rail), Kugler gets the offensive linemen injured, etc, etc its the same old lament. Fortunately, the Steeler front office is smarter than all of us and hold the ship steady during these types of years which are far and few between.

Pappy

The referee said that you hit Brian Sipe too hard. Did you hit him too hard?
I hit him as hard as I could - Jack Lambert

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Well to clarify my stance, I think Ben is a great QB, but I do maintain he's self-centered and has to get his way to be happy. If not, he's like a disgruntled 3 yr old bucking the world until things fall into place the way he wants them to. There's no argument he was having a good season prior to his injury, but he looks like a shell of himself since returning, and I don't exactly buy the reasoning for this is ALL the injury. His head isn't in it. He seems very distracted and has made some very poor decisions (i.e. holding the ball way too long and taking sacks and throwing INTs). So, to be fair, you live and die by him. By that reasoning, when he plays great, he's worthy of praise, but when he's playing like a bonehead, then he's worthy of criticism. One doesn't erase the other. The last three weeks, the whole team has come out and given a stinker effort, and Ben was among them. It's easy to misread one's true intentions when typing on a message board I suppose because there's no face of emotion or inflection of voice to measure the true meaning that one is trying to express, so I suppose I offer a bit of an apology for sounding off so harshly after the last month's debacle performances. If we beat the Browns then the season ends on a good note, but they'll have their hands full for sure.

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Originally Posted by Jooser

Well to clarify my stance, I think Ben is a great QB, but I do maintain he's self-centered and has to get his way to be happy. If not, he's like a disgruntled 3 yr old bucking the world until things fall into place the way he wants them to. There's no argument he was having a good season prior to his injury, but he looks like a shell of himself since returning, and I don't exactly buy the reasoning for this is ALL the injury. His head isn't in it. He seems very distracted and has made some very poor decisions (i.e. holding the ball way too long and taking sacks and throwing INTs). So, to be fair, you live and die by him. By that reasoning, when he plays great, he's worthy of praise, but when he's playing like a bonehead, then he's worthy of criticism. One doesn't erase the other. The last three weeks, the whole team has come out and given a stinker effort, and Ben was among them. It's easy to misread one's true intentions when typing on a message board I suppose because there's no face of emotion or inflection of voice to measure the true meaning that one is trying to express, so I suppose I offer a bit of an apology for sounding off so harshly after the last month's debacle performances. If we beat the Browns then the season ends on a good note, but they'll have their hands full for sure.

-Joos out

My question would be: Why would he throw in the towel the second half of the season if it isn't injury related? I mentioned in another post the specific throws that caused him issues are the ones where his body may not be square to the target and he has turn at the waist and the try to deliver a pass horizontally. He appeared to have plenty of zip when facing downfield and stepping into the throw with his shoulders square to the target. It was those screens and quick hitches to the right or left that were bouncing to the receivers. These throws probably caused him pain since he couldn't square himself to make the throw, just my opinion of course.

Ben is a lot of things, but one thing I've never seen him do is give up, ever and I doubt we'll ever see it. it's too coincidental that his play after injury was less than stellar and he was in the MVP discussion prior.

Pappy

The referee said that you hit Brian Sipe too hard. Did you hit him too hard?
I hit him as hard as I could - Jack Lambert