Eric Pickles, David Cameron’s Communities Secretary, has told militant atheists to stop trying to impose their politically correct intolerance on the UK:

“I’ve stopped an attempt by militant atheists to ban councils having prayers at the start of meetings if they wish. Heaven forbid. We’re a Christian nation. We have an established church. Get over it. And don’t impose your politically correct intolerance on others.”

“This Government has backed British values. And we’ve stopped Whitehall appeasing extremism of any sort. Be it the EDL, be it extreme Islamists or be thuggish far-left, they’re all as bad as each other.”

It’s nice to see that there are a few people who can see some of what is happening and aren’t afraid to call it out.

I think a big red herring is the women’s ‘equality’ agenda which seeks to create a new underclass: men. But I hear only silence. And within the Church, we see it in the constant campaigns for women”s ordination and the denigration of men. Yet clerics seem only too keen to be seen to pander with weasel talk.

i agree with Mr Pickles. If someone doesn’t want to hear prayers said before a Council meeting then they can simply stay outside the chamber until the meeting proper starts.

But here’s the dilemma. Pickles correctly says that “We have an established church”. Whether that’s a good thing or not is another matter, but it does happen to be true. However, many people on this site contend that the Church of England is not a true church, is heretical and may not even be Christian. So where does that leave this debate. You can’t argue that the CoE is all part of the same movement as the RCs when it suits your case and it isn’t when it doesn’t.

Owen ,
Who said these prayers were Anglican?
The Anglican Church was established by law in 1559 by the 2nd Act of Supremacy-and by the 1571 39 Articles of Religion which laid the legal/theological basis of Anglicanism.Catholic recusants did not and Catholics today recognise the CoE for what it is-the Church by Law Established.
Catholics do not recognise the validity of Anglican Orders as Apostolic-vide 1896 Apostolicae Curae.The last Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury was Cardinal Reginald Pole who died in 1558.
Catholics have never argued that Anglicans are part of the “same movement”-they share a common baptism and are our separated brethren.
And the reason for all this is very simple .That was the intention all along of Thomas Cranmer whose 2 x Books of Common Prayer and 2 x Ordinals -1549 and 1552 made it explicitly clear that the intention was to establish a brand new national Church.The Mass was banned in England from 1560 and was only freely restored in 1829.
I hope this answers your observation.

Not me. It is Eric Pickles who argues that the reason for opposing any ban on prayers before Council meetings is that “we have an established church”. I can only assume he means the CoE – a church that you and many others regard as invalid and heretical.

Owen ,
Thank you for that reply.
Let me be clear to you on the state of the Church of England-Justin Welby is the Archbishop of Canterbury…in the Church of England.

He has undoubted Christian ministry and Orders -in the Church of England-but he does not possess Apostolic Orders as the clergy of Rome and the Orthodox do.

The last Catholic ABC was Cardinal Reginald Pole who died on 19 Nov 1558.

The Papal Bull of 1896 -”Apostolicae Curae”-issued by Leo XIII declared Anglican Orders utterly null and void.
And surprisingly at the time -this was welcomed by large sections of the Anglican Communion-who did not wish for any taint of Papist Rome about what they were conferring.
Eric Pickles is also perhaps wrong in linking prayers to the Anglican Establishment anyway. No one Christian denomination “owns ” prayers but most of them are glosses or cribs from their Latin/Catholic originals.

Apart from Rome there is a huge swathe of Nonconformist conscience and in England and Wales they , like Catholics , don’t have a huge amount to be thankful to the Anglican hegemony for.
So …these prayers are not really “Anglican” prayers at all..but actually Catholic ones -two or three times removed from their Vulgate originals-given the Tyndale/Cranmer glosses and said at the start of certain key local government meetings.
Perhaps they still have them in Tower Hamlets…but perhaps in a form Thomas Cranmer had not reckoned upon.

“i agree with Mr Pickles. If someone doesn’t want to hear prayers said before a Council meeting then they can simply stay outside the chamber until the meeting proper starts.”

But that isn’t what Mr Pickles says. He claims that he has given Councils the power to include prayers as part of the meeting proper included on the agenda.

The court decision didn’t have a problem with prayers before the meeting. neither does the NSS who brought the case. What they say that a council cannot do is include prayers as part of the official business of the meeting because Councillors are required to attend the meeting. Christians should be supporting the court decision not deriding it. It is a sensible British compromise and protects the rights of the religious as much as it protected the rights of atheist Clive Bone. It is because of this case and the NSS that Catholics will be able to legitimately excuse themselves from prayers which they do not wish to be part of (heretical prayers for example) should they have concerns of the nature that Owen raised.

Except this is fantasy. Pickles is not telling the truth when he claims “I’ve stopped an attempt by militant atheists to ban councils having prayers at the start of meetings if they wish.” The court decision arising from the NSS challenge still stands. All Pickles has done is claim that his localism Act gives councils the power to have prayers on the agenda even though the Act and the debate leading up to it does not mention prayers and many councils have taken legal advice and concluded that prayers need to be moved off the agenda to before the official meeting starts despite what Pickles says.

Do not be seduced by this rather transparent attempt to divert the attention of the dim right wing from the dodgy antics of Maria Miller. Anyway Miller has now gone and Eric is stopped trying to distract us.

It’s a battle he thinks he can win (at the moment). Let’s see what happens when the ‘gay marriage’ law clashes with the Christian beliefs of business owners as it surely will at some point. See below for the latest case from America.

Don’t be conned by this man’s warm words. First, be it noted that he voted to redefine marriage with all the consequences that will have. Second, be it noted that his government was the one which opposed the right of employees to wear Christian symbols at work. Third, be it noted that according to the Christian Institute: “The Government’s equality watchdog has funded a top gay lobby group to advise employers on dealing with the ‘clash’ between sexual orientation and religious liberty rights. Stonewall’s 38-page guide, Sexual Orientation and Religion: How to manage relations in the workplace, was produced with funding from the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC).” Fourth, be it noted that as soon as she had steered the Redefinition of Marriage Bill through the Commons, the Government Minister, Maria Miller, wrote to homosexual lobby groups asking them what else the government could do for on their behalf. From time to time, members of the Conservative part of the Government will make noises in an attempt to make it look as if they support Christians. (The Lib Dem part is more honest: they don’t pretend to be pro-Christian.) Christians should not be fooled by such attempts, especially in the run-up to important elections.

Thank you for that Mike….succinct and to the point. Yes…there are elections coming up. I am so glad Maria Miller is gone….had she not been so involved in pushing gay ‘marriage’ through so spitefully….I don’t think I would have taken much notice of her demise. Just desserts I think.

I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it….we need to monitor any discrimination and bullying against Catholics and Protestants in the workplace over their religious beliefs. I mention these groups specifically….as they are not classed as minorities….therefore have less rights. Time we kicked up a fuss. BTW….the boycotts of Guinness and Mozilla shows a flexing of Christian muscles. We need more.