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Trooper A is in the suppression fire state. Camo marker B engages A with the first half of an order, revealing itself. Can A ARO with a BS attack using suppression fire? Suppression fire is canceled by entering the Engaged state, and A declares his ARO after this happens in the declaration sequence. B is revealed for the whole order, why would A not lose suppression for his whole order? Important part of the cancellation clause below.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Suppressive_Fire_(State)
Cancellation
The Suppressive Fire state is automatically cancelled in any of these cases:
The trooper's state changes to a Null state, or to Blinded, Engaged, Immobilized, Isolated, Retreat! or to any other state which specifies that it cancels Suppressive Fire.

McMurrough throws a smoke grenade onto a fireteam: Haris of 3 Morats who are all within 2" of eachother. It covers all of them.
In a new order, he then uses Stealth to enter B2B. Nobody gets AROs, even the guy he came into B2B with thanks to Stealth. McMurrough then attacks with his Templar CCW. The Morat he's attacking now gets an ARO, they choose to attack, yada yada yada. Then...
Am I correct in assuming that none of the Morats have LoF to the AROs so they can't do anything but Change Facing, Alert or scream in terror? I guess if they don't take AROs they can Warning! at the end of turn after McMurrough strikes the enemy and change their facing (but it doesn't matter because facing is essentially irrelevant when inside of a smoke grenade when no one on the table has MSV). Or are there other options that you can do when trapped in a smoke grenade with a meleeist? I played my first game of Caledonia (ever) versus my friend's Morat Aggression Force and my opponent didn't like McMurrough using Stealth to get into B2B and rip apart his fireteam so easily. But my main army is PanO, so having things like capable CC with Smoke means it's pretty much the first time ever I've gotten to use it more than once a game (and the first time ever I've used it 7 times in a row... god bless Galwegians and god bless McMurrough), and I am still learning the rules for Smoke and Extremely Impetuous and things like that.
I'm used to having like, one Impetuous guy and maybe a frenzied Knight and just winging it, but now I'm juggling like 6 of them, so...
Sidetrack: Honestly, he should have had me as all 3 Morats were Suppressive Firing on McMurrough from 6" while surrounding his own HVT to keep McMurrough from using his twin chain rifle templates, but a hail mary smoke grenade from a nearby Highlander put McMurrough in smoke, and a lucky spec fire from McMurrough put a grenade on top of all 3 of the Morats. And then McMurrough went through them one-by-one with Stealth, Martial Arts L3 and his Templar CCW killing them all... It mildly felt as if we missed something as it felt unlike Infinity.
Last question: I was going to ask, but I also just found the rule that when targeted with a Smoke Grenade template a unit can Dodge to get out of it, so there's that-- some amount of counterplay possible-- but now I have a new question: If someone inside of a smoke grenade is big enough to be inside a Smoke template but in B2B with someone outside of it, what happens? Are they both visible, or are they both concealed, or do they leave the Zero Visibility Zone vis a vis the one model being outside of it?
As always, thanks for reading! Being able to have things dumbed down for me helps so much and I appreciate every one of you.

Hello everyone!
Just a few questions regarding the interactions between CC and ARO:
1)
A and B are allied and C is their enemy.
C moves in base contact with B with the first part of his order. Then, B declares CC ARO against C and A declares a BS attack ARO against C. Then, C declares CC attack against B with the second part of his order.
Is A risking to shoot at his ally with his ARO, as all the rolls happen at the end of an order and at the end of the order C is in base contact with B?
2)
With the first part of his order, A moves in base contact with B from behind. B has no line of sight of A.
Can B still declare a CC Aro against A even if he's at his back?

Good *insert time of the day you're having here*, folks.
I've been recently browsing through some of wiki articles on the topic, and finally decided to clear my doubts here, even though I think the answer was actually provided by game examples in the very wiki.
I'll cut description of my thought process and go straight to the point:
1) Is it correct that I can only apply mods from CC Special Skills if I declare a CC attack as a part of current order (in active turn or as ARO), even if the opponent is in base contact with my trooper with said skill and declares a CC attack during that order anyway? Example #3 on I-kohl wiki page is what prompted me to ask.
2a) Can I apply negative mods to opponent's roll provided by CC Special Skills in any FtF roll, or only if he rolls on CC attribute? Is it specific to some skills but not applicable to others? General description of CC Special Skills states that opponent mods are applicable to generic FtF rolls, but wording for Martial Arts specifically mentions that "Each Level of Martial Arts gives a series of specific MODs and advantages to CC, as shown in the Martial Arts Chart." Does it mean that MA level 1, 3 and 5 only specifically modify enemy CC roll, but not BS or PH rolls (if opponent decides to shoot me in the face or dodge, respectively)?
2b) A specific generic example to go with the question above. If I activate a trooper in Impersonation state, move it into BtB of the enemy trooper, at which point he declares shooting me in the face as an ARO, and then I declare a CC attack with MA3, will the opponent get a -3 mod (for MA3) to his BS attack? Do I get to also apply -6 mod to his BS roll for my Surprise Attack (I assume I do since it is applied in the example given on Surprise Attack wiki page)?

Someone please dispel my doubts about CC.
Is unconscious units in btb with enemy still counts as engaged?
Can doctor or enginer heal those units if they only btb with them but not enemy?
Is +1B for friendly models works both in active and reactive turn?
Is +1B for MA l4 works only in active turn?

Although I really like the Infinity rules there are certain (very few) aspects I hate - and this is one of them!
So it's my reactive turn and I have a Pheasant Rank in cover with a boarding shotgun over a link team if Joan and her buddy knights. Off to the flank a wounded impetuous Equestria knight runs at her, exchanging boarding shotgun blasts, and killing her Bao trooper buddy!
In an epic exchange of buck shot the knight makes 2 saves, the Pheasant makes one and then the Knight runs into CC shooting as he goes, while the Pheasant ARO's with a CC attack and wins! The knight goes down! But as he is just unconscious and now the Pheasant is Engaged! Now the link team of Joan and friends can move freely ... (what happened next....well that's another story )
The annoying rule is that even if you win the CC battle you are stuck in an Engaged State and can no longer draw LoF outside of CC. You also can't ARO if anything moves in your ZoC (as dodge needs LoF)....and all because there is a bleeding unconscious guy at your feet??? Really???
When this got FAQ'd recently many people hoped it would say that when you win a CC you may choose to disengage (move 1 mm apart).
I hope the Infinity rules people sort this out...
Was a great game though vs Chris "Pootle Flump" P! Epic!

Can my non Camo (Impersonation) guys with martial arts even get the surprise attack ability that Martial arts says they can do? (e.g Tarik Mansuri).
Pg 104 Surprise Attack: states that my trooper must fulfill all requirements:
- He must have a special skill that gives him surprise attack. (Martial arts does this).
- He must also be in a marker state! (Tarik Mansuri cannot do this).
- He must enter base contact in the same order surprise attack was declared. (Easy)
Guess I kind of answered my own question.

Hello.
I discovered one subsectiont in stealth rule, that never call my attention before:
If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state.
It's getting really strange if out of context.
Can I really move within opponent model's LoS and he can not shoot at me if my Stealth model ends movement in BtB?

When you perform a CC attack against a scenery structure with an anti-materiel weapon like a DA or T2 CC weapon, do you still get to use special CC modes like Martial Arts or NBW, to for example increase your chance of critting? Can you choose to use the "melee at -3" option with d-charges in addition to setting them normally?

It's Monday so time for another instalment of 'Noob question of the week'.
As I continue to learn the game I'm starting to struggle with the whole Close Combat thing in Infinity. On the face of it, as a faction, we have some close combat capable troop choices (Imperial Agents, Ninja, Oniwaban) but Infinity seems to be a 'gunfight' game where close combat doesn't really happen much. On the few occasions I've tried to get into close combat I've been gunned down on the approach. Now I accept that a lot of this is due to inexperience. I mean running down the street waving a Katana at someone is all very well but when that someone has a gun it tends to end badly for the Katana owner.
So as a general rule of thumb how do other Yu Jing players deliver their close combat guys to the enemy?
I'm assuming that dropping smoke is a good idea as that removes LOS (visors not withstanding) so that the victim is robbed of their ability to ARO shoot at you on the way in as long as you are not tempted to shoot at them and allow them the shot back?
Do you rely on the camo state that things like the Ninja can start in to help protect their approach?
Do you just not bother given that it's order inefficient? (drop smoke + move + getting into cc usually means 3 orders or more. Much like the famous clip form Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indy pulls out his pistol to just shoot the sword wielding guy coming at him as it seems like a better option)
Is my desire to be waving sharp metal objects around just not a good idea in a game where shooting is king?
As always; thanks for reading and helping the new guy out.

Hi all.
Quick question from our last game:
We had a trooper in active turn shooting into a close combat situation consisting of a fellow trooper and an enemy. The Burst showed a critical and a miss which was on the range of the failure category. So the miss should have hit the fellow trooper. Now we debated whether the critical canceled out the failure?
Any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

Hi guys !
So I'm having quite the debate with myself, and I thought that I would share with the class so here I am.
I'm planning my second faction (JSA) around aragotos because bikes (I swear this sentence is correct ;)). So I'm looking at CC, because Yu-jing, on the other hand I look at my friend's myrmidons and I wonder : what really makes a good CC unit ? The uber high CC value coupled with nice skills like MA/berserk etc or having a little lower but all the tools to get there easily like ODD/Smokes ?
On a side note there is the question of i-khol units, different CC weapons, mobility of the CC unit, dual wield, point cost. My experience with CC is the use of jaguars against hungries in my DZ or transductor zones going full electric pulse after being engaged, or being ripped to pieces by angry myrms...
And you guys, what is a good CC unit to you? What makes a faction a good CC faction? What's your experience with the use of CC ? I'm curious to see how other people outside my group thinks !

It's question time!
We have to following situation: Trooper A fires his shotgun Boarding Shotgun in Blast Mode at Enemy B. Enemy B is engaged in CC with Friend C. Trooper A's teardrop template doesn't include Friend C.
The following rules text applies, that's for sure:
______________
Template Weapons on a Close Combat
Template Weapons that affect at least one trooper engaged in a Close Combat affect all troopers in that Close Combat, even if some of them are not in direct contact with the Template. Bear in mind that troopers cannot declare Attacks against their friendly troopers.
_______________
Is the following asumption correct:
The attack is legal because Friend C is not under the template. If Friend C would be under the template, the attack would be null. In both cases, Friend C is hit by the attack.
Or does the rules text mean that I can't use template weapons at all to shoot into close combat?

Heya guys. In the new HSN3 book with the updated rules the fireteam bonuses in CC confused me on whether it has changed or not.
» In Close Combat, whether in the Active or Reactive Turn, when several members are engaged in the same CC, only the Team Leader trooper will perform the CC Roll, gaining a MOD of +1 to his B and +1 to the PH Attribute for Damage for each Fireteam member Engaged with the adversary
For example, if I got 3 guys in a fireteam (including the link leader) engaged with an enemy:
1) In the active turn: I activate the fireteam and declare a CC Attack. The Link Leader does the attack and gains +3B and +3PH (for damage) for the CC attack as there are 3 members of the fireteam engaged with the enemy (including the link leader).
2) In the reactive turn, the enemy trooper activates and declares he will CC attack one of the member of the fireteam who is NOT the Link Leader. I declare the fireteam will CC attack in reaction. ONLY the Link Leader will be doing the CC attack, gaining the bonuses in (1). The other 2 members of the fireteam, for the purposes of face to face rolls, does nothing, hence the enemy trooper will get an uncontested roll against the target of its CC attack.
Is this correct? Example (1) came up during a recent game and we didn't want to waste time debating the rules so we just went with the old ruling of only +1B +1PH for every other member of the fireteam engaged, hence only a +2B +2PH bonus for the (1) example

Situation:
1 Fusilier is at the base of a building 6" tall and facing the wrong way.
1 Antipode is on the roof of the building- 3" from the edge of the building (and therefore hidden from view).
It is the Antipode's active turn.
1 order is spent- 1st short skill- move 3" to the edge of the building and then plunges 6" into base-to-base contact with the Fusilier. 2nd short skill- CC attack.
Is this a legal move?

There is one example in the N3 core book:
Fusilier Angus watches as his comrade Fusilier Bipandra is attacked in CC by the Alguacil Ortega. Angus, always the gentleman, tries to help and declares his ARO will be to make a BS Attack, then opens re on Ortega. To hit Ortega, Angus needs to roll 9 or less on his d20 [BS: 12 +3 (Range MOD) –6 (MOD for trying to avoid friendly re) = 9]. What he rolls instead is a 12. Uh oh. He failed his Roll, and he did so because of the MOD for having to avoid hitting his ally engaged in that CC (10 to 15 on the die). This means his FC is 3 (12-9=3), less than the value of the MOD (-6), so Angus ends up shooting Bipandra by accident. Now Bipandra must make an ARM Roll and, if she passes it, she will want to have a word with her comrade Angus.
But what about critical hits, are they applied? If yes to whom?
Correct me if I am wrong but I understand this way. Taking into consideration the example above there are two possibility to hit:
1-9 roll to hit enemy model. Does it mean that 9 is a critical hit?
10-15 roll to hit friendly model. Does it also mean that 15 is critical hit which applies to own model?
Thank you in advance for all help

Ok so I think I know the answer and my buddy does too but he did ask where in the rulebook it says it and for the life of me I havnt a clue. So I thought to pop it on here in the hope of some Guru helping me out.
So my TO CAMO'd, stealth ninja was in such a place as to be able to get into close combat with my mates unlucky little line trooper. I could trace a line from the ninja to the other trooper so that I would go behind the troopers back and the trooper could not turn round as the ninja had stealth. So when the ninja attacked the other trooper could only make a CC attack, right? Well my mate said that he could declare a BS attack, as when you are in close combat the model gets 360 degree point-of-view, and at any point along the line it moved as the whole order happens at the same time. Could that happen, could he fire his main weapon at the ninja as the ninja closed in for CC? So what do you think then peeps?

I've looked at the previous topics on this, and I haven't seen a satisfactory answer for whether or not a model with sixth sense can respond to an engage+CC attack order with a BS attack ARO if the entire order occurs in a Zero-V Zone.
>Allows the user to respond with a Face to Face Roll to Attacks (and only Attacks) directed at him by an enemy inside his Zone of Control, even without LoF to the attacker and regardless the facing of the user.
The exact order of events is both models are in AoE of a smoke template. The SSL1 delays ARO until the active model's CC attack is declared then declares ARO.
Reasons for being able to declare BS attack:
>The entire sequence of the active model is simultaneous, so by declaring an engage+attack the active model generates the proper condition for responding with a BS attack.
>The shot would occur before the engaged state comes into effect.
Reasons why a BS attack is not allowed:
>This would create a odd situations with attacks for no LoF weapons, for ex. Muttaw'iah declaring a Jammer attack against a link from behind total cover and then getting shot through a solid wall.

Hi there, I had a question come up during a game that I'm sure will pop up more as I play with the Devil Dog Team, so I wanted to ask here if anyone knows how to treat this situation.
As I understand it, you can normally never split your ARO burst. (Does anyone have the page where this is stated?) However, if a model with Martial Arts lvl 4, +1 burst, is attacked by both a Devil Dog and his K-9 unit, can he then split the burst and declare one CC attack against each model? Seeing as the K-9 and the Devil Dog are both activated by the same order, I feel like that should work. Then again, I've been surprised by how rules have worked in the past so I'd like to know for sure
Thanks!

My friend and I just had a situation come up in a game which we couldn't completly resolve our selfs: I was with my Bandit in CC with a Bulleteer REM, I just used Engage to get there - so it's PanOs active turn. Now he wanted to flame my Bandit with his Auxbot HFT. He could place the template so it wouldn't cover his Bulleteer. Now the problem: is the flamethrower canceled (simply illegal) because it hits the Bulleteer (a friendly model) or is it legal because the template doesn't cover the Bulleteer, despite still hitting him? If it's the second (it's legal), why wasn't it simply worded, that templates into CC is canceled..?

You can clearly put a D-Charge on an enemy model as a CC attack (ARO or short skill), that's not a contest. You can also detonate the D-Charge without a roll as an ARO or short skill. Still super clear. What we couldn't find, was whether or not you had to detonate the first D-Charge before you place another one. Can you put two on? There's nothing that says you can only put a D-Charge on a target if it doesn't have one already, but there's also nothing that says you can. No other weapon (that I'm aware of) applies a 'debuff' like this that could potentially stack, so we're a bit stumped. The situation, if anyone is interested, was that my Dr. Worm was engaged with his Achilles and managed to beat his CC roll and put a D-Charge on him. In his (Achilles) next activation, I wanted to do it again, but I hadn't yet exploded the first one (it was his turn so I couldn't just explode it remotely with someone else first.)

I was watching a battle report last night in which a CA player had his heroic Umbra dodge into close combat with an evil, ramboing jotum as an aro. This was a pretty smart way of putting a stop to the nefarious pan-o rampage, I thought. What surprised me was that in the following turns, the ca player only used the Umbra's MA 1 instead of going for level 3. I would think that since both levels inflict the same penalty to the enemy's hit chances, going for an improved chance at a crit would be better against the jotums heavy armor than simply increaSing damage by 1. That got me started imagining all sorts of crazy scenarios, which leads to the question, under which circumstances do we want to get into close combat? And since we have several martial artists with varying weapon loadouts, what situations lead to a particular level of MA being a superior choice to the others? The speculo always using MA3 seems obvious since mono weapons rely on simply hitting, but for the umbra, razyats, daturazi etc. it seems like different situations would demand different approaches.

1. Can engaged model declare Idle? 2. Can engaged impetuous model declare first short skill move, which is illegal, so it change to Idle? Not impetuous? 3. I suppose engaged impetuous model can declare only attack or dodge, is it so? Thank you!