The new normal?

As part of my outplacement services, I attended a session at Right Management. I was very impressed by Right - good folks serving an important need.

But I was shocked by what I heard in my roundtable. 8 people were there from all different industries. Every one of us lost our jobs because of outsourcing to India. I was in work today (2 weeks left), and 85% of the people there are now H1B folks from India. 5 years ago, that number was 0%.

A friend is an organic chemist with a PhD. Worked in the pharma industry inventing new drugs to help save our lives. Yes, her job also was outsourced to India. She's now making $10 per hour working in a nursing home.

Come on USA - STOP. Tell me, friends, in 2020, will ANYBODY in the USA have a job other than those that can't be outsourced?

I feel your pain. I keep wondering when we'll hit that tripping point where the downsizing will reduce the "local" market to the point where the company's feel their mistake on their bottom lines and the trend slowly reverses.

As an IT worker I keep waiting for that day when my turn comes. Already have a large contingent of IT workers from that continent aboard here (up from 0 just 2 years ago). In my experience very book smart but very single dimensional thinkers.

Glad I have a sales background to fall back on if I need to...

Don "that and pictures of certain influential persons with sheep would help" Bolton

Tell me, friends, in 2020, will ANYBODY in the USA have a job other than those that can't be outsourced?

I'm really worried about our country...

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In today's SF Chronicle there is a long article which I'll quote in part:

Silicon Valley technology firms that are lobbying Congress to slash taxes on money they bring home from abroad, arguing that doing so would help them create millions of jobs, already send more than half that money back to the United States without paying taxes, according to a Senate investigation released Wednesday.

...Independent tax analysts have widely panned the idea. Numerous academic studies of the Boxer tax holiday showed that the companies spent most of the money they brought back after 2004 on shareholder dividends, stock buybacks and executive pay, while some of the companies actually cut jobs.

Interest groups as disparate as the conservative Heritage Foundation and the liberal Citizens for Tax Justice strongly oppose another tax holiday, in part because of evidence that the last one encouraged multinationals to send more of their earnings overseas, in anticipation of another tax holiday.

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This is not a partisan issue. Senator Boxer, 71, is cosponsoring the bill with Republican Senator John McCain, 75. Boxer is the youngest and most "liberal" of the three senior politicians controlling California's Democratic Party, along with Senator Dianne Feinstein, 78, and Governor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown, 73.

For a significant number of a Californian's lack of a job is "the new normal."

Despite what you may read about Silicon Valley being full of job creators and the Bay Area's booming biotech industry, the number of people employed in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2010 was approximately the same as in 1990 - let me emphasize this, the number of people actually working at paying jobs in the Bay Area including the Silicon Valley was about the same in 2010 and in 1990.

You see, there are parallels that can be seen between our situation and:

The asset bubble crash in Japan in 1991 that led to what was first called "The Lost Decade" but is now many Japanese are calling "The Lost Decades" because it's been two decades since the economy has been anything but stagnant,

The Long Depression which began with the Panic of 1873 and ended about 1896 (23 years), an economic collapse that was world wide, but most notably in areas that had gone through rapid economic growth from the Industrial Revolution such as Europe and the United States.

What we're experiencing now would not be considered a "new" normal in Japan. And what we're experiencing now would not be considered a "new" normal to the grandparents of Boxer, Feinstein, Brown, or McCain, who were the same generation as my wife's and my grandparents.

As one economist describes The Long Depression (which was named The Great Depression until the 1930's but didn't end with a timely World War - so it was longer):

New technologies and industries were being created. The telephone was invented, and the foundations of new industries based on the petrol engine and electricity were put into place. The people who got it right still made huge fortunes, and the workers in the right industries prospered. Overall, however, times were hard.

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I'm worried also Wilbur, for my grandchildren who will have to live much of their early adulthood in what I'm calling The Great California Slump and for their parents generation who are your generation.

lugnutathome said:

I keep wondering when we'll hit that tripping point where the downsizing will reduce the "local" market to the point where the company's feel their mistake on their bottom lines and the trend slowly reverses.

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The problem is whether it's GE or Apple or Google or McDonalds or Walmart or the thousands of other international corporations, what happens in the U.S. isn't "local" to them. Their sales territory is the world. Outside the U.S., Europe, and Japan where things are stagnant including population growth, the market is growing noticeably. And yes, I meant to include Walmart which has 8,500 stores in 15 countries, under 55 different names.

IMHO, the economic disparity cycle is not a political issue - it's a social problem. No nation, politician or political party has solved it since the Industrial Revolution began, unless you count Germany in 1939. But I will say one thing - I did not include those politicians' ages at the beginning of my post for no reason.

About 10 years ago, I went through a short but painful period of having my position evaporate in the name of "corporate downsizing".

My solution was to make getting a job my new job. I spent 12 hour days every day doing whatever I could do to network, update resume content, search, research, and other activities. I arrived at my home office desk at 7:30 each morning just like I was still working.

It was a time that was neither enjoyable nor easy.

Today, many other folks are going through similar situations, and I have a warm spot for those challenged by the current economic conditions in terms of jobs.

I'd only like to encourage to be as aggressive as possible in their pursuit of a new job - don't give up. In my case, I looked at it like a kidney stone - very painful at the time, but eventually the problem goes away. You also learn how to avoid the pain coming back through the experience.

P.S....I also was offered and used Right Management - a great and helpful group of folks.

The new normal blows chunks, 25%-30% less income,an eat crap jobs with no benefits, working in asbestos and the employer could care less, soon to be forced health care system at $3,000+ a year per person.

Hot & cold running stress and the general public for the most part act like a bunch of jerks out on the road and in public.

Both of my daughters and grand kids have left the USA seeking greener pastures.

I don't care what they say on TV the economy has put many good people out of a job and home.

It's all about the bottom line. If the company can do it at one-third of the cost, they will do it, even if it ends up taking twice and long to resolve the issue. Insert the obligatory "Is it good for the company?" line from Office Space.

My mother has wondered why I have not taken a day off since June 30th. She is noticing that I desperately need a vacation, and I agree with her. However, we had a bad layoff during the summer, and I still have my job. I am looking forward to my week off between Christmas and New Years, and even that time is only being taken off because it is part of the mandatory year-end shutdown. Under California Law, accumulated vacation time is considered earned wages, and must be paid out upon separation, whether voluntary or involuntary. And, I would like to run close to my cap.

I am very glad to have graduated and obtained my degree last December. It is my belief that a well-educated work-force is essential for the United States to compete. Unfortunately, there has been yet another round of cuts to post K-12 education programs, which means yet another steep fee hike for the community colleges and university systems in California. Even if you get that degree, good luck getting a job in that field, as the employees would prefer experienced people over the fresh college graduate.

It's all about the bottom line. If the company can do it at one-third of the cost, they will do it, even if it ends up taking twice and long to resolve the issue. Insert the obligatory "Is it good for the company?" line from Office Space.

My mother has wondered why I have not taken a day off since June 30th. She is noticing that I desperately need a vacation, and I agree with her. However, we had a bad layoff during the summer, and I still have my job. I am looking forward to my week off between Christmas and New Years, and even that time is only being taken off because it is part of the mandatory year-end shutdown. Under California Law, accumulated vacation time is considered earned wages, and must be paid out upon separation, whether voluntary or involuntary. And, I would like to run close to my cap.

I am very glad to have graduated and obtained my degree last December. It is my belief that a well-educated work-force is essential for the United States to compete. Unfortunately, there has been yet another round of cuts to post K-12 education programs, which means yet another steep fee hike for the community colleges and university systems in California. Even if you get that degree, good luck getting a job in that field, as the employees would prefer experienced people over the fresh college graduate.

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I can't help but wonder what FDR would have done about all this outsourcing. I think I know, there wouldn't be any outsourcing. Does anyone really think that companies that use outsourcing would go under if they had to maintain call centers in this country?

It probably wouldn't cost that much more. I bought a Dell laptop once that had an offer for Gold tech support. I knew I probably would t need it much, but wanted as good support as possible for cases where I needed a new part etc. I think I paid about $100 for several years, and when I called, I got someone in Texas, with at least A+ certification, overnight shipping etc. The problem is, a lot of people want American stuff at Chinese prices.

Don't tell me about Dell, they USED to have a outsourced call center in Las Vegas they moved to India many years ago.

Yes, I used to work there as well. :nono2:

All in all, I think I have lost my job to a overseas outsourcer 5 times in the last 10 years. My wife has lost hers 6 times.

The whole thing makes me shake my head in frustration because the large corporations just don't get it. If you send all the job's overseas nobody will buy your products/services because nobody will have the money to do so.

But hey, if they send more work overseas (where it's cheaper) they can make cheaper products and maybe more folks will buy them...

Reminds me of when I worked for Nike back in 1985. At that time, 1/3 of their shoes were made in the USA - today, zero are. Why? The American consumer won't pay to have their fellow citizens make quality products. They'd rather play for flashy designed shoes made by people in the poorest of countries.

Nike went from Japan to Korea to China to Taiwan to Vietnam and now to Thailand. They continue to chase the world's cheapest labor.

I don't mean to single Nike out - most all other companies will do exactly the same if they can today.

Don't tell me about Dell, they USED to have a outsourced call center in Las Vegas they moved to India many years ago.

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I think the last time I called that support line was 2 years or so ago, either got someone in Texas or Tennessee. The problem with computer hardware, unless you're Apple, the profit margins are fairly thin to begin with.

Don't tell me about Dell, they USED to have a outsourced call center in Las Vegas they moved to India many years ago.

Yes, I used to work there as well. :nono2:

All in all, I think I have lost my job to a overseas outsourcer 5 times in the last 10 years. My wife has lost hers 6 times.

The whole thing makes me shake my head in frustration because the large corporations just don't get it. If you send all the job's overseas nobody will buy your products/services because nobody will have the money to do so.

But hey, if they send more work overseas (where it's cheaper) they can make cheaper products and maybe more folks will buy them...

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Those practices - massive outsourcing - have been a major contributor to why the job situation in the US is where it is today.

The fact that you have been impacted so severely demonstrates just how bad this is and just how little companies care about US workers, despite any rhetoric to the contrary in public.

I live near old steel mills that went to Japan in the 80's, no one cared. They said we did not need those jobs. It was the beginning of the end. Sadly most Americans do not care, they want their crap as cheap as they can get it. Personally I won't shop at wal mart, I try to buy American made on everything I can and shop from local small stores, not big box stores. So tired of free trade I wish they would put sky high tarrifs on all imports and heavily tax companies that move jobs overseas. Until the rest of America can wake up and get with the program we are doomed.