Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER:SnoopDOhDubbaGee: *Some American prisons won't even admit journalists because the conditions are worse than those depicted in TFA

Oh, like Corcoran State Prison in California, where the guards held "Gladiator Days" pitting members of different gangs against each other, and then shooting them both? Link I guess that's one way to solve overcrowding.

/I served in the Army with an ex-prison guard. Most sadistic person I ever met

Some of the prisoners mentioned in that article sound pretty sadistic to me.

Repo Man:The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zerofarksgiven

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

According to whom? It's nice if it happens but its more correct to say it simply segregates those who can't play nice in society from those who can. Given recidivism rates for most of the crimes calling their time incarcerated "rehabilitation" is just wishful thinking.

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

According to whom? It's nice if it happens but its more correct to say it simply segregates those who can't play nice in society from those who can. Given recidivism rates for most of the crimes calling their time incarcerated "rehabilitation" is just wishful thinking.

THIS.

It's entirely up to us what sort of prison system we have, and to a large degree, how effective it is at either releasing people who can live peacefully in society, or at releasing hopeless sociopaths who come out much worse than they were when they went in.

MrHelpful:Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zerofarksgiven

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.

It's not a complicated concept but since some people seem to be having trouble with it, prison should not turn two bit criminals into murdering rapists, or you know nobody should ever go to prison, that's the ticket.

Because the reason the prisons are filling up is because of all the people who end up there who committed no real crime. Crimes that are simply offenses against the state, like using a drug the state doesn't approve of.

Given the volume of laws and vagueness of many of them, all that separates any of us from prison is the willingness of someone in a government job to put us there.

leadmetal:Crimes that are simply offenses against the state, like using a drug the state doesn't approve of.

California has a large alternative sentencing program. The jails aren't full of people who were just using drugs. The pro-drug people like to pad the statics with people who plea down from more serious charges, people who refuse to comply with the terms of their alternative sentencing, and people who are violating probation/parole terms.

It's not murderers and rapists filling the prison system - it's immigration and drugs. What with crack being exponentially a longer prison sentence than cocaine (I think 17 years vs 1 year, but I can't remember. They just changed it) it's pretty obviously slanted to be a money machine to trap brown and black people.

And I'm sure popular culture has done nothing to dissuade said black people from the actions that cause them to end up in jail. Stop glamorizing gang/thug behavior and watch the prisons empty out.

Yeah - I think it's pretty much pointless to debate this since our focus is so completely different. For me, the real point is the same chemical can put you in jail in different ways which is much more lenient on people that have money for a more refined product. The more expensive refined kind gets you 1 year, the cheaper kind gets you 17+ years. That's like us both being caught for speeding on the freeway and you having 17x the fine because you are driving a cheaper car.

MrHelpful:Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zerofarksgiven

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.

Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot. Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse. But if you are happy with the idea of sending in a kid who made a stupid mistake, and releasing an animal who will kill you for looking at him funny without a second thought, our present system is for you.

Pribar:I once spent a week in Marine transient berthing at naval station Philadelphia, when I checked in I wondered why all the doors were heavy steel with holes where they had used torches to cut locks out, my "room" was a 6x8 cell with no lock on the heavy steel door and a bungie cord holding it shut. I asked wtf was up and was told that it used to be the brig, but the Inspector General had ruled it unsafe for prisoners so they transferred them out, removed the locks and made it Marine berthing. So the place was unsafe for prisoners but just dandy for Marines, that told me exactly where the powers that be had us on the food chain...

The fact that you could get out easily at any time--nothing but a bungee cord holding the door shut, right?--probably made the building a lot safer to inhabit than it was when the doors locked from the outside. Fire, flood, earthquake, failure of the ventilation system, whatever, every marine gets up and leaves in a matter of minutes. Doesn't work that way with prisoners.

Repo Man:MrHelpful: Repo Man: The_Original_Roxtar: WAAAAAAH, I JOINED A GANG AND ROBBED PEOPLE, ASSAULTED PEOPLE, AND SOLD DRUGS OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND NOW THEY WON'T LET ME LEAVE THIS PRISON! WAAAAAAH

zerofarksgiven

Stupid kid steals a car, get sent up to do hard time in one of our criminal factories. Serves his time, is released, breaks into your apartment, rapes your girlfriend in front of you, and kills you both. Doesn't give a fark. He learned some things in the joint you see, and one of them was that human life has no value at all. But you're ok with that.

Wow. Overwrought rhetoric much? Based on your logic, no one should go to jail because it will just turn them into murdering rapists.

Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot. Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse. But if you are happy with the idea of sending in a kid who made a stupid mistake, and releasing an animal who will kill you for looking at him funny without a second thought, our present system is for you.

I realize you need to believe that most people who go in are "kids who make stupid mistakes" and those who come out are "animals who will kill everyone" however such is not the case. Sorry to break your bubble.

It is a little bit more complicated than that. Violent gangs routinely identify the dudes who have no record. They then force these guys to join the Army or the Marine Corps. Having no record, they get in and do their time in infantry. After their time is up, they go back home and train their bros on military tactics.

Repo Man:Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot.

That's actually a good idea... so... like... different levels of prison. Where we try to keep the dangerous and incorrigible in certain prisons where we have heightened security... more and taller fences... less inmate freedoms... that kinda thing. Then something at the other end for non-violent and first offender types where they can take classes... even do work outside the prison to learn a skill.

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

Pray 4 Mojo:Repo Man: Or maybe a system that doesn't just put those who can be salvaged in with those who cannot.

That's actually a good idea... so... like... different levels of prison. Where we try to keep the dangerous and incorrigible in certain prisons where we have heightened security... more and taller fences... less inmate freedoms... that kinda thing. Then something at the other end for non-violent and first offender types where they can take classes... even do work outside the prison to learn a skill.

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?

DrewCurtisJr:Repo Man: Or any number of the reforms that could easily be instituted to do all that we are able to make incarceration something that actually improves things, rather than making them worse.

Like what?

Here's just one: eliminate prison rape. There is no excuse for prison rape. No one deserves it (no civilized country punishes people with rape), and if we as a country decided to, it could either be eliminated entirely, or made incredibly rare. It exists because we collectively tolerate it.

I don't know about concepts. I do know that my proposed solution will (1) rapidly reduce prison overcrowding, (2) remove violent criminals and thieves from our midst, (3) discourage other potential violent criminals and thieves. In my opinion, that would make our society better.

Deterrence is over-sold. People are not rational enough nor do they value their lives enough for that to work. There's a lot of untreated mental illness and addiction combined with people getting shiat on and pissed off. Make people more rational and give their lives more value and deterrence might be more relevant.

A good example of our system not being about deterrence: South Dakota recently executed Eric Robert. Apparently, he had a decent background, education and job, and did volunteer work. He was on his way to being every other middle-aged midwestern white guy. But he had a bad temper with women, acted on it, and committed a kidnapping that got him basically a life sentence. Nobody was killed, but essentially he ended his own life for all practical purposes. Rather than face decades doing nothing in prison, his anger, untreated, turned on the system and he decided to kill a prison guard and either escape or be executed. He didn't seem to care which. He pled guilty and asked to be executed as quickly as possible and the state obliged. Not only was the death penalty not a deterrent, it was his big ticket out here. A game of state-assisted suicide, with a guard's life as the achievement unlocked. Why did this have to happen? This was not a guy who was hopeless until whatever hidden mental illness he had motivated him to commit a serious crime, and our tough-on-crime, no-second-chances system said, "you're done, pal" and took all hope away. He was capable of reasoning and he reasoned he had no reason to put up with this shiat. He went to war to get himself out of prison, and apparently he won. I'm not saying go soft of kidnapping, but when someone is functional except in one area we should be looking at what psychiatry can do. Take crime seriously by seriously trying to FIX it. How much crime is because people's brains are broken in a treatable way? How much crime could be prevented by spending the same money productively? It seems like we almost enjoy making life harder than it has to be so we can get off on watching people go wrong.

Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.

You're so right, because monied interests can never have any kind of impact on how society functions,

How stupid of me to suggest that the people who are making a profit off of prisons use a portion of that money to perpetuate and expand the system that enriches them.

How short-sighted to imply that those whose paychecks are derived from the maintenance, incarceration, trail and care of said prisoners would be in moral and financial alignment with the people with and for whom they work.

Well, you're kind of assuming that every country goes through similar phases towards a pinnacle of development, but that's not really true. Every society has its own trajectory. There's no guarantee that the U.S. will keep increasing its wealth and power simply because we're young.

I should have been a little bit clearer. I was mainly talking about the moral issues we're facing and the dying out of all the completely off the rails people we're seeing today. I didn't mean wealth and power cause that is always up in the air since no one can predict the future.

Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.

Yes, it isn't possible that judges could be corrupted.

As scandals from Wall Street to Washington roil the public trust, the justice system in Luzerne County, in the heart of Pennsylvania's struggling coal country, has also fallen prey to corruption. The county has been rocked by a kickback scandal involving two elected judges who essentially jailed kids for cash. Many of the children had appeared before judges without a lawyer. Video Watch the corruption scandal that is rocking Pennsylvania »

The nonprofit Juvenile Law Center in Philadelphia said Phillip is one of at least 5,000 children over the past five years who appeared before former Luzerne County President Judge Mark Ciavarella.

Ciavarella pleaded guilty earlier this month to federal criminal charges of fraud and other tax charges, according to the U.S. attorney's office. Former Luzerne County Senior Judge Michael Conahan also pleaded guilty to the same charges. The two secretly received more than $2.6 million, prosecutors said.

The judges have been disbarred and have resigned from their elected positions. They agreed to serve 87 months in prison under their plea deals. Ciavarella and Conahan did not return calls, and their attorneys told CNN that they have no comment.

Ciavarella, 58, along with Conahan, 56, corruptly and fraudulently "created the potential for an increased number of juvenile offenders to be sent to juvenile detention facilities," federal court documents alleged. Children would be placed in private detention centers, under contract with the court, to increase the head count. In exchange, the two judges would receive kickbacks.Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for cash' scandal

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?

me texan:Looks about the same as my barracks in basic training, except they have more freedoms apparently. Do they deserve better than soldiers in basic training / boot camp?

/not subby

You did BCT for 10 years locked in a room with 100 other criminals? Your BCT experience was different from mine. I only did 9 weeks, and we got to go outside and do line dancing....they called it D&C...and shoot things, but it was only 9 weeks, not 5,10,20,60 years.

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

As you are apparently too lazy to click:

A giant amount of research has been done since his studies, and most psychologists have come to the same conclusion: You want the world to be fair, so you pretend it is.

"Zick Rubin of Harvard University and Letitia Anne Peplau of UCLA have conducted surveys to examine the characteristics of people with strong beliefs in a just world. They found that people who have a strong tendency to believe in a just world also tend to be more religious, more authoritarian, more conservative, more likely to admire political leaders and existing social institutions, and more likely to have negative attitudes toward underprivileged groups. To a lesser but still significant degree, the believers in a just world tend to 'feel less of a need to engage in activities to change society or to alleviate plight of social victims.'"The Just-World Fallacy

Gary JohnsonEnd the war on drugs.Clemency for incarcerated or paroled non-violent drug offenders.The extra resources can go into rehabilitation of those remaining incarcerated or paroled.Ancillary crime rates will drop when drugs are decriminalized.

Well, this is the kind of conspiratorial stupidity that makes any kind of discussion about the issue impossible. But keep on dreaming, dude.

Yes, it isn't possible that judges could be corrupted.

As scandals from Wall Street to Washington roil the public trust, the justice system in Luzerne County, in the heart of Pennsylvania's struggling coal country, has also fallen prey to corruption. The county has been rocked by a kickback scandal involving two elected judges who essentially jailed kids for cash. Many of the children had appeared before judges without a lawyer. Video Watch the corruption scandal that is rocking Pennsylvania »

The nonprofit Juvenile Law Center in Philadelphia said Phillip is one of at least 5,000 children over the past five years who appeared before former Luzerne County President Judge Mark Ciavarella.

Ciavarella pleaded guilty earlier this month to federal criminal charges of fraud and other tax charges, according to the U.S. attorney's office. Former Luzerne County Senior Judge Michael Conahan also pleaded guilty to the same charges. The two secretly received more than $2.6 million, prosecutors said.

The judges have been disbarred and have resigned from their elected positions. They agreed to serve 87 months in prison under their plea deals. Ciavarella and Conahan did not return calls, and their attorneys told CNN that they have no comment.

Ciavarella, 58, along with Conahan, 56, corruptly and fraudulently "created the potential for an increased number of juvenile offenders to be sent to juvenile detention facilities," federal court documents alleged. Children would be placed in private detention centers, under contract with the court, to increase the head count. In exchange, the two judges would receive kickbacks.Pennsylvania rocked by 'jailing kids for ca ...

I'm sure there are corrupt judges. And I'm just as sure they're an extremely small minority. What Dr. Love is doing is stating the whole prison system is corrupt and akin to slavery. That's what's so stupid about this. And did you even read the article you linked to? The first example in the story is of a 14 year old who, gasp, was sentenced to a youth detention center and then was taken from his mommy and sent to a "school for troubled teens" for nine months. Something tells me there is a LOT more to that particular story than a "corrupt" judge.

Yes, the average pot smoker tossed into jail has a body completely covered in tattoos...LOL.

In California good luck finding a cop who will bust someone for smoking pot. Our prisons are still full of scumbags.

The drug war should be ended, but don't think for a minute that these people are all upstanding citizens, who just happened to be caught up...and then decided to have their entire bodies covered in prison tats.

Our society has basically dropped the whole concept of lower/working class people having any morals. I don't blame those folks - they are just following what society teaches them. "do whatever you want! no judgement. no shame. In fact, being a gansta is cool!"

You know, I really shouldn't say "working" class because most of the scumbags don't work. There are plenty of lower class people who do work, and they are the guys who woke up one day with a girlfriend pregnant and instead of just bailing, they find a way to make it work for their kids. I have full respect for those guys. In fact, they need MORE respect from society. But nobody writes rap songs about busting their ass at two jobs so the family has food on their table that doesn't come from Uncle Sam.

How can prison rehabilitate in conditions like that? You do realize that's what prison sentences are supposed to do, right?

Wrong. The "convicted people are scum" crowd don't give a sh*t whether people are "rehabilitated", they just want the state to appease their twisted sense of "justice" by punishing those who may have broken the law.This belief is most prominent in those who get boners when someone mentions the death penalty... putting someone to death isn't going to bring their victim back, it's simply a means of revenge against that person sanctioned by the state.

EnderX:So let me get this straight, prison has become such a unpleasant place that we should stop sending criminals there?

Do you know that the recidivism rates for released prisoners in the United States of America is 60%

If it is so unpleasant, why do the criminals keep making the decision to commit crimes and put themselves back in such a hellish place?

Because for some of them, with no possibility of a job or a life with any sense of normality, prison could actually be a more attractive alternative. This may be difficult to understand for someone who has never been convicted of a crime, but my brother has worked for the local department of corrections for over 20 years, and has to deal with people like this every day. He sees them back again and again, and the main reason is that society doesn't want them, even after they have served their time. They have no where else to be.

Even with all the advantages the average non-convicted citizen has, it's still a b*tch out here. Trying to find a job that pays enough to live on, a place to live with no credit record, and so on is tough for anyone... now add to that a felony conviction and your chances just went from 50/50 to "you gotta be sh*ttin' me!"

Hope they are careful about which of these fine upstanding young men get released.

I see you are trolling.

A good friend of mine farked up and went to jail. Not a bad kid, just was in a bad way and got caught with a friend with drugs. His friend threw him under the bus for bigger shiat so that he could get off lighter. My friend went in a misguided kid that made a mistake, and came out looking like those guys and had a far bigger view of the world of crime. People learn to be dregs of society in prison, because that's what you have to do to get by.

It's quite amazing how everyone has a story. It's never their fault. And even if it is, well, it's not. And if you disagree, you're trolling. Brilliant!

It's a lot easier to just assume everyone gets exactly what they deserve, right?

Frankly, it's been my experience in life, that's exactly what happens. It's called karma. You should try it some time.

So can I go ahead and assume you're a white male of a mainstream religious denomination?

No you can't. But thanks for playing.

Then what is it that gives you so much confidence that the world is just and equitable?

Repo Man:Here's just one: eliminate prison rape. There is no excuse for prison rape. No one deserves it (no civilized country punishes people with rape), and if we as a country decided to, it could either be eliminated entirely, or made incredibly rare. It exists because we collectively tolerate it.

We don't tolerate it. Just how big of a problem do you this it is?

Unless you keep everyone in shackles all the time or isolated in cells there's a risk of bad things happening. There are a lot of bad people in prison.