The JUDGE for house and car.....the .410 for the bedroom, the shot will not travel thru the wall and hit someone sleeping in the next room, and then load .410 with the 44 everyother shot for the car...CCW PARA LDA.45acp..

I keep my trusty old Bulldog in 38cal. in the nightstand or when out camping in remote bear country. Granted the 38 is not the go-to caliber for bear, but it should work to slow it down (and I can still run pretty fast)..lol.

Use what you can shoot and be confortable with. Whether it is a 9mm or .45acp means nothing if you cannot control your shot placement. As far as home, I would use a gun that eats wad cutter ammo without fault. Wad cutters will not pass thru and hit someone else. Plus P ammo is too strong to control. I personally like .45 1911s........but I practice alot and have complete confidence in their use.

Shot that will not travel through sheetrock is also shot that may not travel through a thick leather coat and through the fat layer of a perp.<br>
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And what makes anyone so sure about the shot from a 410 not passing through sheetrock? Have any of you actually tested various loads on sheetrock to see how they perform? How about posting pics of your tests? Oh, wait, no pics because it's all hearsay evidence.<br>
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It really makes me cringe when I see advice that basically advocates turning an entire house into a "free fire zone".<br>
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The biggest problem with the "home gun" crowd is, they are more interested in a excuse to buy another gun and seeing themselves as Chuck Norris than they are of really learning what its going to be during a real home invasion. Just go buy a gun or 5 and get on with it.

Here's the reality whether you like it or not and this is only part of it:

If you think someone is really in the house, other than grabbing your new found toy, what are you going to do?
Call the cops? Might be a good idea.
Then, are you now going to go hunt the bad guy in your own house? Or, if you have other family members in other parts of the house are you going to go get them, or have them lock down in place? How are you going to tell them? Do you have communication ability between rooms? If not, how do you know that they are in the same room they're "supposed" to be? If they aren't, now it's a Hogan's Alley where you get to try and decide if its good guy/bad guy before you yank on the trigger at the looming figure in the doorway just as your flashlight takes a nap. Do you have a minimum of 2 flashlights? One is none and two is one.
If you're going bad guy searching, are you going to get dressed or are your Hanes all you need to carry your extra light, mags, phone and so on? How much time will that take and how much noise will you make doing it?
If you're going to go searching, do you have body armor? Who said just because it's your house that you'll get to fire the first shot? Not much good to snoop around your own house and get shot in the back.
Are you able to be in contact with someone during your search? How are they going to know who you are and where you are? What if you get shot and can't move?
Remember, you called the police and probably told them someone is in your house. By now they are either outside or not far away. Are you going to keep wandering around your house while you expect the cops to come in and nab the bad guy?
If you're wandering around the house, how are you going to be able to contact the PD when they get there and direct them where to go?
If you hear them show up and you run to the door and yank it open with a gun in your hand when they are very near that door, it might get ugly. At that point you're just another bad guy with a gun.
How about if by some stroke of blind luck you find a bad guy and he doesn't shoot you in the back?
Can you call the PD and tell them what's going on? Did you bring your cell phone or cordless phone with you? Can you do all this and keep an eye on the bad guy?

Remember the part about "you're just another bad guy with a gun"? This is a good question for all the people to ask themselves who want to carry a gun whether in their house or out in public as a CCW:
If you draw your gun for whatever reason, legal and otherwise, and the police show up, are you mentally and physically prepared to put down your gun without question or argument, when told by a law enforcement officer? That means putting that $1600 Kimber Flash custom on the concrete right now. Remember, a lot of cops watch the same foolish TV you do and many think that "drop the gun" is a valid command. It's not a smart one but they probably have their gun pointed at you and it's their game at this point. Are you willing to risk getting whacked by not doing what they tell you just to avoid a divot in the finish?

We did a quick test one day with the 5.7 and so far, I'm not convinced its anything other than something for the gadget folks to play with, although the P90 would make a great tank/truck gun to be worn while in motion but I'm unconvinced as a LEO gun due mostly to the mechanical offset of the sighting system to the bore.
We wrapped a level II vest around a gel block and shot it with the handgun. It ran through the front panel and stopped about 2" or so into the gel after tumbling about 3/4 of a revolution. If we did the bare gel shot, it only went in 6-8" but would do full revolution or less by the time it stopped and would go way off the original path. It didn't make any difference which type of ammo we shot, it did the same thing. The bullets came out with little or no damage.
It seemed that if it hit something resistive, it'd buzz right through but if it hit something soft, it'd go end over end once and stop with the base of the bullet facing forward but pretty shallow penetration. Only one or less end over end and that was it. No real wound cavity at all. Doesn't seem to effective to me. When time permits we hope to do some more testing on other materials.

GunCSI, I am going to wait for the police to show up. The things you say I had never thought about and you make so many good points it's hard to imagne that I ever felt I was ready to shoot somebody in my house. Thanks for the good advice. Jeff

For me it's the Springfield SA-XD sub-compact 9mm with Speer 124 grain Gold Dots. I was told to learn one gun, practice with one gun, practice clip changes with the gun you are going to carry and practice, practice, practice, and when you are done practice some more. The gun range by me, has Tactical Tuesdays, we do different scenarios every Tuesday night. Last week was shoot don't shoot,carjacking and hostage prevention. We had to bring around 250 rounds and 2 clips. Clip holster, speed loader and gun holster. The tactical teacher used the computerized program for different scenarios. Target was on edge and we had to unload 2 shots from holster position into the hostage takers forehead. From the sitting position, we had a target 3 feet from us and when turned face on, we had to unload 5 shots into it from holstered position within 5 seconds. Clip change was a bitch because the target kept coming, and you had to unload as many rounds you could until the target got to you from 10 yards, all from holstered position.

You think you have the skills until you have to execute them, then you find out you were only fooling yourself.

GunCSI, very valid points. We are taught to not clear the house, let them come to you. Throw a GOOD and reliable flashlight that is not too bright into a hall and keep another that is blinding for identification before reaction. If they are just stealing things let them go... it's just stuff. If the intruder comes to your family area, that's when it's time to react. Have the PD on the phone with what you are wearing and keep the line open, if there are shots fired, then at that point it's you and him/them. I was told to practice this with the whole family and they all have a job to do. After the ordeal, put the gun on a table and bring in the PD. If it's fatal at if you got this far, it would most likely be, tell the police that you want to cooperate with the investigation, but you want to talk to your lawyer first. This gives you time to calm down, get you wits,so to speak and write down the events as they transpired to the best of your recollection. GunCSI am I wrong in this advice? This came from a swat commander that teaches these classes.

Jerbear, I sure wouldn't say what you were told was wrong because there's a 100 ways to do anything. Staying in the bedroom or where ever you're at, is, in my eyes, the better thing to do. However, why would I basically throw away a flashlight that may end up doing me no good by pointing the wrong way? Who said it was always going to land pointing in the right direction? Instead, why not get or make a simple wedge or door block to push up under the door knob to keep them out? Then, take the expendable flashlight and put it on the bed or floor and point it at the door. Stay away from the door but if someone is ignorant enough to bust the door open, you'll be better able to identify the threat. If they break the door open, sure shows a lot more intent on the bad guy's part and will make it pretty hard for the defense to say; "oh, he wasn't going to do anything".
If P.D. makes entry, stay on the line with dispatch and cordinate with them as the officers come to your door. Once you are satisfied that its the officers on the other side of the door, put your firearm in the middle of the bed, tell them you will open the door, then slowly put both hands straight up over your head so they can see you don't have a firearm and you should be good. If you happen to know someone on the PD or whatever the agency is, it can't be too bad to talk it over with one of them to see if there's something way different that they teach that might conflict with any of this.

On the phone w/dispatch is a good idea and stay that way as long as possible.
Here's a couple of other ideas for your bedroom or whatever you figure to become ensconsed in:

1 extra cell phone battery and/or a charger. what if the situation becomes a barricade on a different floor and you can't get out the normal way and want to stay in contact with the authorities or family?

An orange mesh traffic vest. How easy will it be for the good guys to I.D. you with that thing on?

One or two gallons of bottled water. See above. Also, an empty gallon jug to put the used water. A barricade can go on for hours and hours.....

A couple of energy bars.

If it's above ground level, maybe one of those rope ladders for an escape.

Think about keeping your camcorder device in the bedroom and always charged. Point that at the door from across the room so it takes in as much of the scene as possible but mostly the wedged door. Maybe instead of a flashlight, put one of those little lights on the recorder. They are usually pretty bright. Set it on the bed or whereever and let it run.

Here's one I'll bet no one thinks about. A large key ring with a key to any or all of the exterior doors. Attach a chemical light to it. Open a window, tell the dispatcher what side/corner/floor of the house you're in and that the window will be open. When the uniforms arrive, you can be in direct contact with them. Break the chem light and throw them the lighted key ring. Then they don't have to destroy your door to enter and they can do it quietly.

I'm inclined to agree with not speaking until you are in the presence of your lawyer. Have you already picked one out? 2am is not a good time to get into the yellow pages and look for one.
Don't even think about trying to write anything for a while and till after you talk to your lawyer. Its discoverable as evidence and you can write dumb things just like you can say dumb things.
Rather than ask the swat guy for advice on that part, I'd call a lawyer and spend a few bucks discussing it with them. He's probably not wrong but getting the interpetation from the law side would make more sense to me.

I'm liking some of the drills but I am very much against a drill that say you HAVE to expend all the ammo in your gun in a certain time. It leads to sloppy shooting by blazing ammo rather than concentrating on what you hit. Rather, make very small zones on the target that you have to hit. Shoot no faster than you can control the gun, control the trigger and control the sights. Shooting to "keep their head down" is a joke that is based in movie lore and a waste of precious ammo. Of course, if there was a way to induce some form of "punishment" that forces you to shoot better, not faster would help. How about 10 pushups per shot outside the designated hit zone? Can't do pushups? then $1 per shot outside the zone donated to the NRA-ILA fund. This would be for after you've practiced what you're doing and is on a sort of end of the day test. Unless you can afford to do that all afternoon at a $1 per miss. ow.

GUNCSI Thanks, the guy who owns the range is a defense attorney, yes I have his card. The CPL classes they hold, is with the tactical concept in mind. Bill (the owner, attorney and retired swat commander) comes in after class and gives the legalese and suggestions on what to do during and after an encounter. It is my understanding these people are all swat or retired swat that runs the classes. It was Bill's idea to put a flashlight in the hall pointing away from the room you are in and not to sweep the home. His words were always let them come to you, even though it's your house, you don't know how many of them there are or what they are carrying.

I like your idea of the video camera, I do have one in my bedroom closet and we have practiced some break-in scenarios already. The carjacking practice was to get in the habit of changing clips in a quick manner and not drop the full clip and get some sort of feeling of pressure that most people will never experience, until the sh!t hits the fan, then it's too late. I came away with the jitters during the shoot no shoot drill. Wow that was intense.

The drills are to get used to muzzle jump with double taps and triple taps and keeping them in the 9 ring/center mass. Any flyers are counted as an automatic lawsuit. You don't know where they went. They stress the idea that all you want to do is stop the threat and not kill anyone. We do not refer to our firearm as a weapon, it is a tool to "stop the threat".

They say most people that have a CPL, will never go through training like this, let alone rack up the valuable range time they need to survive an encounter.

With 11 gangs in my town, I don't take this lightly. We had an elderly man get beat up cutting his front lawn about two months ago. They caught the punks, but he suffered severe bodily harm. I don't have my CPL in hand yet, but carry in and around the house to get used to the feeling of it on my waist.

As you can tell I'm in the range as often as I can be. Training as much as I can about fight or flight. Even during normal range time we have range officers willing to work the targets for us so we can continue the training we received during those Tactical Tuesdays.

I'm not sure if I mentioned that on Thursday nights they turn off the lights for those of us that have night sights. We are getting training in low light situations such as garage at night and night basement conditions.

To me the best home protection is a pump shotgun. The noise will scare most away and you can load it with shot that you don't have to worry about anyone in the house next door getting shot. For a carry gun I would use a Kimber Pro CDP II.