I don't want to kick a dead horse but OMFG! If the teachers in Newtown had been armed no one would have died.

Kristi - posted on 12/19/2012
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I know how the 2nd Amendment/Right to Bear Arms debate goes. I honestly did NOT want to see this come up again after this horrific crime.

I was watching Piers Morgan on CNN tonight. He was talking to Larry Platt, the Executive Director of Gun Owners of America. I honestly could not believe that this guy could say what he was saying with the conviction and attitude that he had. The scary part is that there are many others who believe the same way.

Platt said that if the teachers had had guns of their own they wouldn't have been sitting there waiting to die. They could have killed him before he killed them.When Piers tried to ask him where should the teachers keep their guns, his response was people all over America carry concealed weapons. UH...hello? He said the only places in America where there is gun violence is where the good guys aren't allowed to have guns. He also tried to say that because 35 people were mass murdered in an event in another country (I can't remember which country, but it was one with way strict gun control compared to the US) that they had the same kind of gun violence as America. The interview was so incredibly outrageous! I don't know if you can watch it online or not. Obviously I'm not able to accurately or significantly describe or relate the whole interview here. He basically thinks that people who do not arm themselves are stupid and are just asking to be a victim.

Personally, I think there is a reasonable compromise for both sides. I also think that mental health issues and school safety need to take the front seat right now. However, Sandy Hook, IMO, was unavoidable. He used guns that had been legally purchased and registered by his mother with whom he lived. The school was secure. He literally had to break in in order to gain access. Maybe an armed guard on school grounds would have made a difference, maybe it would have been one more fatality but that is the only variable I can see here.

Anyways...I probably should have put this up on Moms Who Need to Vent but oh well, here it is. UGH!

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Mary - posted on 12/19/2012

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The idiocy and morally deficient comments that some people have made since Friday is absolutely astounding. For me, this ranks right up there with Huckabee's statement that we shouldn't be surprised that schools are a "place of carnage", and other like-minded people who are saying that Sandy Hook was a "deserved consequence" of pushing god out of schools.

The idea of elementary school teachers carrying weapons is simply ludicrous, not to mention impractical. When I think of my daughter's preschool teachers, I am pretty damned sure that none of them would be comfortable even touching a gun, much less being proficient in using one "effectively" in a crisis situation. Are we now going to include marksmanship and firearms proficiency alongside a teaching certification as a prerequisite for hire?

And that nut job got it wrong. I believe he is referring to the massacre that occurred in Australia in 1996. 12 days later, the country passed sweeping gun control legislation, including a buy-back of over 600,000 semi-automatic guns and rifles. From 1996 through 2006, gun-involved homicides dropped 59%, and gun-involved suicides dropped 65%. In other words, it had a huge fucking impact on decreasing gun-related violence and death. There have been numerous studies on Australia and it's gun control policies, and all credible, peer-reviewed, unbiased evaluations (meaning ones not performed by pro-gun interests) have concluded that this measure significantly decreased the number of firearm deaths, both by homicide and suicide.

LOL Tina, curse words are allowed to be used here. It isn't against debate etiquette. No-one called you anything, they just said a curse word, so time for YOU to don the big girl panties I think. There are no 3 or 4 year olds around here, so it is OK to curse.

It concerns me that these women you have given examples of have a child in a house with a loaded weapon so readily obtainable. Did you know that statistics show that if you have a loaded gun, you are actually MORE LIKELY to get shot? That's right, people who protect themselves with guns are more likely to have a gun used against them.

And having a loaded gun in a house with children is asking for trouble. In the US, every day approximately five children are injured or killed on a nationwide basis as a result of handguns. The primary cause of youth-involved shooting rests with the fact that children find loaded handguns in the home – and natural curiosity leads them down the road to disaster. That's right, that's about ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED CHILDREN EVERY YEAR due to accident with a loaded weapon in the home.

I am so sick and fucking tired of hearing "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". That is an absurd and idiotic defense. You're right, in that a gun is an inanimate object, and cannot act alone. However people WITH a gun can and do kill. They are much less capable of killing large numbers of people if they don't have one, especially a semi-automatic assault weapon.

Those of us who support gun-control legislation have no delusions that it will magically eradicate all homicides. In fact, many of us are not even trying to suggest that all guns should be banned - just those assault weapons that can spray multiple rounds of ammunition in seconds. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely NO justification or reason that the average, everyday civilian needs one in their home. NONE.

Mentally disturbed and violent people will always exist; they always have. It is a sad reality of humanity that there will always be those who try to harm and kill others for no logical or predictable reason. We cannot prevent every random act of violence. However, the one thing we can and must do as a society is make it less likely that when that "evil" acts, they are less empowered to inflict harm upon others.

"Heroin, crack, cocaine all are illegal but readily available to those who want to get it, and so would be guns. "

How do you think these guns are readily available? Oh, that's right, every home has one! Very easy to get hold of a gun. Isn't it logical that if there wasn't a gun in every home, they'd be a shitload harder to get hold of?

And why is it that you need a semi-automatic weapon? Please enlighten me about that, because I am still trying to understand the necessity. I'm also wondering at the necessity of military style assault weapons in the average collection. Are these things that you want a right to so badly that you would oppose stricter gun laws?

"Guns are not the problem a gun has never killed anyone it's the person behind the gun. You can't stop crazy or evil people from committing violent crimes, if they have the intent they will find a way. "

As has already been said, no, you can't prevent crazy people from committing a crime, but giving out more guns is NOT going to prevent it either. But a semi automatic weapon can kill a lot of people in very little time. How many people could this same person have knifed to death before he was stopped?

Kelly, if you look back to my first post, I referenced those studies of Australia's gun-control laws and their efficacy. Homicide by firearms dropped 59%, and suicide by gun dropped a whopping 65%. There is absolutely no justification for the US to not follow suit. We owe our children and each other.

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Jodi - posted on 01/07/2013

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Ah, ok, I think you will find she was quoting Larry Platt's stance on the issue, and I am pretty sure he wasn't referring to the guy's mother, but instead to no-one dying in the school if the teachers had been armed. It sometimes pays to read between the lines ;) If you read it properly, this wasn't the OP's opinion.

@ Jodi: The girl who wrote this original post said it. The last five words in BOLD, "no one would have died." I'm not sure what she meant, or if she was quoting someone else? If she was referring to a statement by the NRA? I don't know. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But again, chose your words wisely if you want to make a point that is understood.

Christine--No more enduring for me. I, for one, am getting sick and tired of Tina's personal attacks, especialy when much of her evidence is fabricated. If she does it again, I intend to contact this board's administrator and ask that her posts be reviewed. Enough is enough.

I think that since many Americans look at Texas as one of the best examples of unregulated gun control, my home state is as good a place to start as any. (It is not true, though. Texas has tougher gun legislation than many people think. If a person violates it, they get hammered legally.) Right now the debate is between people who want to tighten up the law with common sense measures and people LIKE OUR GOVENOR who want to arm teachers in public schools with concealed weapons.

Lobbying group is Texas Federation of Teachers. I thought I would be bored this year. So many issues to study, so many letters to write, so many other people to consider as a govenor...: ) I feel better just knowing I can do something about this!

My quote was:"Not sure what nationality this young woman is" and " if English is not her first language then all becomes clear and understandable".It does not matter what 'race' you are, no one was alluding to your race - at that point it occurred to me that there was another reason why your skills were not up to par, not just that you were being rude and offensive to others.Read back to before you came on board. There was disagreement and even cursing, people were debating in a mature manner and you came blasting in, questioning Mary N's parenting skills, maturity and intelligence, using sarcasm and passive aggressive retorts, using upper case which previously explained, is tantamount to shouting.You DON'T refer to people's religion or faith, you DON'T insinuate that someone is trailer trash or call them fucking crazy. You spoke in a derogatory manner about construction workers, trailer park residents and black people.Saying someone is fucking crazy is offensive.Saying the IDEA of something is fucking crazy is a different matter.If you don't agree with a statement - do your own research first before answering. Don't just assume they are wrong and get abusive.When shot down you got defensive and say you are pleased you have offended everyone. Not very mature Tina is it!I hope you learn to regulate your words and understand that without facial and tonal expressions, the written word is all we have to judge by, that is why you should consider educating yourself in the written word and then you will be able to join in adult discussions without offending and making an absolute fool of yourself.Reading the latest posts:Does it really matter if there are any men on here? As long as they contribute in a positive manner and give well thought out opinions, who cares!Mary N and Jodi - thanks for clearing up the stupid retorts of race and nationality. Bobbi Jean - you sound absolutely LOVELY! Tina - Oh Tina Tina Tina, we don't need to perfect our grammar but YOU DO!I notice you have changed your avatar and yes you are right, you have a pretty face but that is as far as it goes. I am beginning to think you may have mental health issues which would go further to explain your conduct. Finally, you are an UGLY person inside which is where it matters and sitting in a park somewhere is probably the best thing for you. Oh ladies - how much more of this do we have to endure?

Where can I find information on the gun laws in Australia? It sounds like a good model. I want to compare them to the laws we have here in Texas. This might give me a starting point for writing my elected officials. Hopefully, this is one issue our representatives will consider seriously and act on.

Texas State Representative Debbie Riddle is working to pass a law arming Texas teachers in public schools. I may have to start woking with our local teacher's group to make sure this doesn't pass down in Austin. Source is: http://www.kens5.com/news/Texas-lawmaker...

I guess Mark Twain was right. "If common sense were common, everyone would have some." It sure isn't being demonstrated by some of my state's elected officials!

"I cant take it??? Its so funny you say that Jodi COZ everything ive said you have no real response, you all have just been eating it and then criticizing my grammar. Is that because im telling the truth and COZ you know your own thots are wrong and now youre insecure COZ you just got told off by a new girl??"

Um, no, I wasn't criticising your grammar. I pointed out that the reason someone asked about your nationality was because it appeared that English may not be your first language. You are really very good at twisting words.

"Her first impression was cursing at me! "

No-one cursed AT you.

"race and nationality are the same thing."

No, it isn't. Sociologically, they are two different things. You could be a Caucasian but you could be any number of nationalities where English is not your first language and you struggle to express yourself in English. So when someone questioned your nationality it was NOT about race, it was about language, and it was in an effort to understand where you may have been coming from. If you want to read racism into that, you have that right, but that doesn't make it so. You own your own interpretation of what someone else says.

Why have I not debated you on your point of view with regard to this issue? Because Mary said it all. I have nothing to add. But you bet I stepped in when you started ranting at her. You were rude and out of line.

Tina—Since you addressed me personally, I will respond personally. Yes, in my opinion, it would be an armed camp. Personally, I do not understand your insistence that easier availability to guns is the answer to increased gun violence. It seems to me that would be like curing small pox by exposing people to an infected carrier. Easy availability to guns was a factor in the suicides of three of my former students and one of my childhood friends. Gun safes and trigger locks help, but any lock can be picked or breeched if someone wants the firearms badly enough.

As for having gun tooting professionals at every corner, I have traveled to other countries that had the continual armed presence that you seem to be in favor of. One time I was stopped for speeding in Germany (1980). I was and paid the fine immediately as was customary. However, I was definitely shook up by the sight of the police officer’s partner in position with an assault style rifle aimed at my head from a distance. It is not an experience I will easily forget. Nor is it a lifestyle I want to contemplate living here in the United States.

To quote from your last post--<<” i wasnt referring to an armed camp. i say "police militia" coz thats what MAry N turned my post into. i said just a few military guys walking around. scoping people for suspicous and out of place people. a post out front of every school, like a country club check in, isnt an armed camp. “>> This sounds very much like what is going on in Arizona. There, the police have been empowered to stop anyone who seems out of place and appears to be a Mexican national in our country illegally. Many of the people they have taken into custody are American citizens of Latin origin. Some have been mistakenly “deported.” This has happened because someone decided they were some of these “out of place people.”To quote again from your last post--<<”Mary said that military are unstable and massacre at a Fort some years ago and there are multiple "insame asylums" across the country for them, which is why she wouldnt enjoy our great military being home, protecting us here, at schools, at malls and churches to prevent any more tragedies”>>No, she wasn’t. I looked over all over all of her posts. In one she makes the point that if assault rifles hadn’t been so easy to get, the mass shootings might not have been carried out by troubled young men. Her reasoning makes sense. A person can’t use what they don’t have. If assault weapons are hard to get, it is unlikely they will be used. As a matter of fact, Mary goes on to make this point at the end of her post. <<” IF prevention is truly a concern for you, than the only rational and logical option here is an assault weapons ban. Our current state clearly isn't working, and scores of innocent victims are being slaughtered at an alarming increase in frequency and numbers. “>>As for your suggestion to her that soldiers be used to police schools, malls, and churches, most soldiers I know would hate it. My son summed it up nicely (I referring to an earlier post) when he likened it to making war on his own country when his Guard unit had to supplement the local police force during a local disaster. “Defending against all enemies foreign and domestic” doesn’t include pointing a rifle at your neighbor.

I know that you have said that you are a nurse. I hope that you have never seen the gunshot wounds that assault weapons can inflict. My sister-in-law, also a nurse, used to work in the emergency room. Whenever there was a gunshot case she would shake and cry when she got home—especially if it was a child. (She was a solid professional at work. She said assault weapons were always the worst.) Again, this was partly caused by easy accessibility to these weapons.

Quoted from the previous post of yours <<” you all sound like little housewives who have nothing to do but perfect your grammar and read up on news and complain about it. you dont know who each other are, many of you could be men, could be creepy 50 year olds and never know, its the internet, not a coffee shop.

you finally meet a real down to earth person who tells you like it is and u criticize over some typing” >> Since I seem to be included in this universal “you” that you are referring to, I’ll answer that too. I am a short, fat, little woman of 60. As for the creepy part, some of my students think that I am too quiet when I walk around the classroom. (Full time teacher, part time library tech—it’s a small school—I write curriculum on the side. That is only when I am at work. I keep a large garden, try to keep those dust bunnies in line—loosing battle--help to raise my nieces and nephews, and work with battered animals at the local shelter.—My Shepherd Sassy is a therapy dog for animals of all things.) As for having nothing to do—sometimes I wish!

As busy as I am, I will still make time for something important. This issue of guns is important because of the people I know that have been hurt or killed because of them. Participating on this board has helped me get information; clarify ideas, and a plan of actions as to what I can personally do about it. That is time well spent, in my opinion of course.

As for typing and grammar mistakes that I may have made— criticize away. I am sure this piece is loaded with mistakes. By the way, you are the only person, who I have encountered, who has ever made an issue of spelling or typing errors as a sign of deficient human capability. English is my second language and I have dyslexia. These things are not exactly helpful to writing pretty prose. I have certainly made my share of mistakes in all the things I post. No one else has ever made an issue out of it before.

bobbi jean,i just read your post about me being angry and how a military country is not possible. Mary said that military are unstable and massacre at a Fort some years ago and there are multiple "insame asylums" across the country for them, which is why she wouldnt enjoy our great military being home, protecting us here, at schools, at malls and churches to prevent any more tragedies

thats why i referred to them as "average joes who could potentially massacre..." and telling her not to call them since she thinks theyre so unstable if im all for the exaggerated "police militia" why would i think theyd massacre any neighborhood

i wasnt referring to an armed camp. i say "police militia" coz thats what MAry N turned my post into. i said just a few military guys walking around (like the philippines). scoping for suspicous and out of place people. a post out front of every school, like a country club or prestigious apartment complex or gated neighborhood check in post, isnt an armed camp

im done anyway. you all sound like little housewives who have nothing to do but perfect your grammar and read up on news and complain about it. you dont know who each other are, many of you could be men, could be creepy 50 year olds and never know, its the internet, not a coffee shop.

you finally meet a real down to earth person who tells you like it is and u criticize over some typing, real mature of you all. maybe you will really read over what was said and see you were just over the edge on the criticizing and not on debating.

im not gonna linger in company i dont fully in enjoy so PEACE out girls, im sticking to moms at the park, less drama and no judging. maybe you all dont like educated pretty faces

I cant take it??? Its so funny you say that Jodi COZ everything ive said you have no real response, you all have just been eating it and then criticizing my grammar. Is that because im telling the truth and COZ you know your own thots are wrong and now youre insecure COZ you just got told off by a new girl??I corrected on language. FOUL language. Youre correcting how I type… TYPING?? So its OK to curse but not OK to type wrong???? Her first impression was cursing at me! Im not going to sit and eat it, im a big smart alec, as you all can see. I have been giving it as well as taking it, I replied to everyone, right? defended myself fully, I haven’t ignored anyone.

You get what you give, all I said was we should have more protection by our own military. bring our boys home and let them protect us here, not foreign land, coz we need more protection apparently, since people are acting as they are nowadays. And everyone gets offended?? Coz I want our military to be home protecting us on our own soil??? Go read my first post and her post. Go on read it again. See whos “backlashing”

or was it my posts about how guns do more good than bad?? or how they'll never take guns from americans... just the simple unsugarcoated truth

Tina, have you even bothered to read the content of all of my posts in this thread? Either you haven't, or your reading comprehension skills are on par with written communication skills.

Never, not once, have I suggested that all guns be banned. What I HAVE said, repeatedly, is that semi-automatic assault weapons should be banned. That is a HUGE distinction. I have also given some very concise and fact-based reasons and statistics to support this opinion, as well as providing links to research that validate my conclusions.

I have re-read Christine's posts. You are mistaken. She did not bring up race - you did. What she DID do was suggest that if you were from another country, and English was your second and non-primary language, it would be a semi-plausible "excuse" for your illiterate posts and abuse of the English language. Again, it seems that your reading comprehension skills are a bit sub-par.

" Black people always go to race, just cant get over those inferior slave days huh? move back to Africa if you cant get over it by now, its been over 50 years since segregation, how much more time do you need??"

Meh, I'm not seeing anywhere that anyone mentioned race. I did see a question about what nationality you may be, due to your poor grammar and spelling, because it is common to have this here from someone for whom English is not a first language. It is nice to know if there is a cultural difference when debating, because often we are culturally different (in fact, even between myself, an Australian, and Mary, from the US, we will have cultural differences). Asking about nationality isn't a race issue.

yeah Christine, well when you talk about which race I am, that sounds racist. If im not white nor black, am I Spanish? Indian? That’s still race demeaning, sounds racism…and you had to go as far as race? Black people always go to race, just cant get over those inferior slave days huh? move back to Africa if you cant get over it by now, its been over 50 years since segregation, how much more time do you need?? Good for you and your children. My intellect? Have you read my posts? I don’t sound stupid. Typing the way I do is not the definition of stupid. And my other post, go read it. Its completely sensible for someone of sound mind. Psh make a fool of myself, you girls are making fools of yourself, all heated over my idea of bringing our military home to protect us here, that’s all I said to spark this nonsense. Be my guest and read my first post on here. And caps, MAN I NEVER KNEW THAT!! great definition!! thanks for clarifying!! THANK YOU!!!!!!… gosh darned! what a missed shot to the heart… little computer insults and weak jokes don’t bother me as much as my smart aleccy mouth has bothered all yours =)

Mary, Christine just so ignorantly said, I wonder what race she is, and then thinks she “hit a nerve” talking about races??? And I hate discrimination. So she got back what she gave. Go read it. maybe you dont remmber what i said. i said i want our military to protect our soils here, in schools, at the mall, at churches, not foreign land. i said guns will never be taken away from americans. i said guns protect more than damage. and what have you said?? my grammar sucks, BRILLIANT response. made you stand alittle taller that day huh? made you look like nobody to me.

Christine--I have a German Shepherd named Sassy that I have mentioned somewhere on the boards before. Maybe this is where the name came up? Good for you and Mary for loving your rescues. A loyal dog beats a dozen guns any day of the week. Maybe instead of everyone want a gun--it should be everyone (who can care for them) get a dog? lol : )

I thought its name was Sassy? Sorry my mistake.I have 5 rescue dogs, 3 Chi's with brain damage, 1 blind Yorkie and a lunatic untrainable Italian Greyhound who had a badly broken leg. I was a fosterer for some years but now take on troubled animals that need time and money spent on them - like to think I am helping redress those that go out and impulsively buy a puppy without thinking through their lives ahead, especially the designer breeds of fashion.... such a tragic outcome for some of these animals. The 3 I have were bred too small (teacup) and suffer breathing problems, headaches, joint trouble.Woah, we almost changed the subject ha ha...

Thanks! Charlie is a 9 y/o ridgeback mix found wandering along the side of the road. I adopted him when he was a little under a year. My other boy is a 10 y/o pit mix; he was 4 when we adopted him. Now that my daughter is in preschool 3 days a week, I have returned to volunteering at the shelter we adopted him from :)

What in the world would make you suggest that *we* think you "prolly sound black"? There is no way to discern anyone's race on an internet forum, unless they have an avatar that is a picture of themselves. As it is totally irrelevant to this thread, I don't believe any poster has made mention of their own racial or ethnic background ( until now). The only personal attribute that has been referenced here is one's country or citizenship. You don't "sound" like any particular race; poor written communication skills are equally distributed among all races and cultures. To state otherwise would make you appear a bit prejudicial.

....I'm still waiting for you to offer any REAL facts. Until then, I think we can all agree that your contributions to this thread have been nothing more than unsubstantiated and inflammatory crap.

Oooh Tina, I seem to have hit some nails right on the head and touched a few nerves here; well good.Do you know that typing in upper case IS shouting (upper case is big letters in case you are not sure).Lets hope you are a better nurse than a writer, intellectual or philosopher and I have a very firm suspicion that you are able to get under any skin, young or old.Yes, please feel free to go join another website, something more suitable to your intellect and then I could stay and talk sense with sensible people but don't forget to go make a fool of yourself on your other subject first.I have two fantastic teenage girls and I never had any attitude from them because I brought them up and taught them LOVE, RESPECT and MANNERS, something you should take a look at in yourself.By the way, I am BLACK so I would respectfully ask that you not assume that I am racist and presume that black people cannot articulate themselves, I've never heard a black person say PROLLY! Do you mean PROBABLY?

LOL, just for the record, I already have teenagers, and one who is already an adult. And if ANY of them EVER expressed themselves with the poor grammar, spelling and expression you have, I'd be very disappointed in them, because they were raised with a much better education than that.

No-one is looking for perfect grammar, but you corrected others on their language and their first impressions, you kind of have to expect a backlash. You know what they say about the pot and the kettle, right? It appears you can give it but you can't take it ;) Just like a teenager.......

its so funny coz i say one thing about more protection and every one atttacks me.

and my other post board, im getting to that and then im done with this site. im joining another web site. you all are all too biased and cant accept facts nor ATTITUDE. hope you all dont have girls, coz youre gonna get a lot of it when theyre teenagers.

wow. i sound so insecure and angry? how do those make sense?!?! when did i sound angry?? how can i show anger on the computer??? are my typos yelling at you??? LOL insecure? my responses are pretty straight forward. im saying the facts and its not sugar coated. get over it. im an LPN ( a licensed practical nurse FYI) , im filipino american. not black which is what i PROLLY sound like. ssounds like youre racist. my words arent in perfect grammar?? what are you all teachers? am i being graded? if you cant read past some typos than you need to grow up. its called the real world not everyone likes to type perfect.

im glad i offended you all. its so easy to get under uptight old skin.

im sure im one of the most CHILL people you all have never met. im blunt and honest, most people say i should be a comedian. .and i only joined this site thinking i could put some input with other moms instead of facebook and twitter (coz i hate those) but since i came into this "debate board" of girls trying to enforce their rule over others

Ok - enough is enough. Jodi, your comprehension and awareness are to be commended, as is your patience. The same with Heather, Mary N, Aleks, Tracey and Bobbi Jean. I've enjoyed conversing with you but feel it is time I left this board as I can no longer tolerate the level of ignorance and un-educated meanderings of this person known as Tina Louise.Not sure what nationality this young woman is, perhaps that is the reason for the appalling grammar, punctuation, untruths and frankly stupid accusations levelled at others. If English is not her first language then all becomes clear and understandable.Her prose is inane at best and puerile at least and I am wondering where the mediators of this board are and when they think it might have been appropriate to end her insulting ramblings.Really - do we have to respond to unsolicited retorts like ' I am not trailer trash' 'I just seen' 'you prolly don't'.When presenting her with any fact, we are then expected to substantiate our sources as if we have just made them up without any prior research or investigation. Well little lady, DO IT YOURSELF. Perhaps if you spent less time ranting and spouting ridiculous incoherent and inconsequential denunciations, you might learn a thing or two. You quote ' I don't believe ladies should talk like that' and 'it makes us look like construction workers' - well I'd far rather be talking with a woman who blasphemes with a level of intelligence, or a construction worker who can string a sentence together and even; as you put it, some trailer trash as long as they had a slightly higher level of educational text than you! You sound like a very angry, unhappy and insecure person with a mind so closed to listening and learning that you will surely never attain any level of contentment in your life. Oh dear, I feel sorry for you.Ladies, have you noticed that every comment she makes is marked with every compliment available? Helpful - Nice - Funny - Encouraging ! All with just the one though - wonder who is her fan ha ha! So childish, I have better conversations with my 9 year old, and my 6 year old come to think of it. Nice chatting with the rest of you though, have a good day.

Mary--thank you for citing the links. I have read both studies and will make an appointment to see my representatives to ask them to back tougher gun legislation. (In the US if you contact your government representatives you can make an appointment to talk to them directly. If I can't meet with them, I will at least write them!)

Lakota-thank you for expressing the point I feel like making. You were a lot nicer about it than I would have been.

Jodi and Mary--both of you have given well reasoned posts, which I have enjoyed reading. They have given me something to think about.

Tina Louise--Why are you so angry? You are entitled to your own opinion, but not entitled to make your point by attacking others. It seems, to me anyway, that you are ignoring any facts because you have already made up your mind. I quote from your earlier post today.

I do not agree with your rather colorful assessment of police officers. They have saved my family more than once. As for your earlier assertion that military members should be used to police their friends and neighbors--that will not work as a permanent solution. They have taken an oath of defend the Constitution from all enemies--foreign and domestic, not to turn their country into an armed camp. When my son was in the National Guard (while in college) his unit was called to help out with an emergency. One of the things his did was supplement the local police to prevent looting of the homes that had to be evacuated because of a brush fire. He said later that he hated it. It was too much like making war on his own nation.

I do not want my grandnieces and nephews to grow up in the kind of world that you are advocating. Legal restrictions on assault weapons, large capacity magazines, tightening the background check and waiting periods to buy guns--or ammunition of unusually large caliber, and closing the loopholes presented by buying ammunition and guns on line and at gun shows is, in my opinion, a good place to start.

Ah, Tina...thank you so much for sharing that rather prolific bout of barely literate verbal diarrhea. It was most entertaining. It was also a somewhat revealing glimpse into your level of maturity and education.

I won't refute all of the incorrect assumptions and assertions you have made in the past 4 (consecutive) posts; it would be too tedious and time consuming. As well, some of your points are simply unintelligible...perhaps the effort to utilize proper grammar IS worthwhile when you want others to comprehend what you are trying to say.

I DO take the time to research facts and statistics when trying to intelligently debate a topic; I'm not just spouting off my (uninformed) opinions and feelings. The simple truth is that if you want others to respect and listen to your perspective, you can't just fabricate crap to suit your needs. However, I have found that when debating with less educated but overly opinionated individuals, they often resort to petty and off-topic rants and attacks. Your most recent posts clearly support this conclusion.

I have cited two links within this thread. One is a Harvard study on the effects of Australia's gun control legislation. The other is from the Citizen's Crime Commission of New York City ( an nonpartisan, non-profit organization). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have yet to see you cite any sources for your rather convoluted thoughts and opinions.

LMAO!! You may not be "trailer park" but you sure are entertaining!! I've actually never seen probably spelled prolly before. Thank you for the laugh :)

You also happen to be ranting at and insulting one of the most calm and rational women in this community (Mary), so it may just pay you to hang around a bit before you start insulting long term community members without knowing them. Unless, of course, you are just trolling and not planning on sticking around, in which case, go for it, and I wish you luck with that.

if everyone here like to use all this "collected data" they should also state their resources. so we can decide what true and whats bollucks.

alot of news stations and casters are biased. you can TOTALLY see their side of every situation. so of course, because of said opinion, the topic in question will be more leaned toward their own thoughts and well get you to believe what they think.

for example, the charming (haha) nancy grace, you clearly see her opinion every show and she even ignores or cuts off the other side's defense almost every time. just to persuade you.

Jodi, i didnt say she called me any words. if she name called she wouldve gotten it back from me, its the golden rule. Its just the speech. It’s her first impression and she’s flipping out cursing towards me, totally on the defense when my post was completely calm and frankly, quite happy! Im not trailer trash I don’t need to talk like that to get my point across. Ive had my big girl pants a lot longer than you all have, apparently. Its funny out of everything I wrote this is all you notice… BRILLIANCE

Loaded guns should be in lock boxes, if theyre not; it’s the OWNERS RESPONSIBILITY. Those parents might as well put the guns in the kids’ hands if they aren’t more cautious. Its their own faults. You know what that means? Responsibility? You’ve never met anyone in the NRA have you? Its serious, they mean business. Those other people, just irresponsible, they caused it. I hear too many stories about people being protected by their guns and if they didn’t have them, they’d prolly be dead. Apparently their kids havent gotten their guns since it hasnt been on the news. Maybe they have good kids who actually listen to the mothers when she says its not a toy.

Christine, the same goes to you. Im not trailer trash, maybe you all are, but I know how to talk without cussing and I get my point across and alleviate my emotions just fine. so when you and your husband or your best friend get into arguments you’re gonna cuss them out coz it makes you feel better? That makes no sound sense. what studies were you looking at ? are those credible professors and psychologists or some high school student’s science project? Im leaning toward the teenagers…GEEZ? Wow youre gonna attack simple words and relate it to the bible. Are you a catholic or a greek? You prolly don’t even know how those two would correlate. LOLFLIPPING… as in shes SO MAD she’s flipped her switch, she’s turned, she’s now backwards, she went insane, crazy, her attitudes changed, how else can I lay it out for you? But the word “fucking” makes no sense in the context used. why don’t you write a real response instead of TRYING to criticize

I don’t believe ladies should talk like that. It makes us look like construction workers. It’s not attractive, nor classy which is all I relate etiquette to, and I didn’t read the post (like most of your posts) I wasn’t that interested, I just seen “debate etiquette” thinking it would be more civilized.

inferior writing skills?? WOW. It’ called being lazy. You’re hilarious Mary. I don’t have time to type all nice and neat nor do I care to do so. I bet your college professors hated your ramblings in your “perfectly” written papers. Summaries are called SHORT AND SWEET… for a reason.SMH means shake my head? Sounds like a wet dog

I see your time is consumed by the news and looking up peoples names whove massacred others and statistics that may not be correct. What are your kids doing right now? (mines is sleeping, since its middle of the night) Youre apparently payin no attention to them. Playing it up the computer, getting all heated over my want of more protection for this country. OK, thats the constitution I can look that up same as you (means youre no smarter). .and each state and county has their own gun laws, hence government making own laws according to the constitution

They could implement my “militia” all over the country but they will NEVER take away guns from anyone. So why don’t you just let that one go hunny. Maybe we should get rid of knives coz you know people stab people everyday. OR OR maybe noone should have cars coz pedestrians and bikers get hit everyday!!!! YOURE FUCKING CRAZY (how you like that cursing towards you??) youre an extremist and an idealist. Get off the computer and into the real world. You sound like one of those ppl who believed the world was gonna end the other week.. what were ur thots for doomsday? Zombies? Earthquakes? Meteorites?

Hey hey. remember dont call your local police when your getting mugged, raped or your kids are missing for days!!! remember their just your average jos who could potentially go crazy and massacre YOUR neighborhood too.

Morris, I am not quite understanding your posts. Are you saying I am Joan? My name is Christine and the only name I use, it sounds like you are accusing me of trying to add weight to my point by calling myself Joan when it was YOU that used the name first. I merely pointed out that you were being offensive by calling 'Joan' ignorant.Are you on here to just stir things up? Perhaps a few punctuations or some grammar would help us understand your point, or it is that you just want to agitate people. I state my case again: US population same size as the population of Australia, France, Japan, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden and UK all together. Gun deaths USA 32,000! Gun deaths ALL these countries 112!Maybe there are a higher percentage of lunatics in the US?

Tina - as there are no children in either this community or thread, I have no reservations about using adult language. I refer you to the pinned thread "Please Read" at the top of this community, which explicitly states that the use of profanity IS "allowed". I understand that some of you may be just as offended or put off by the use of the word fuck as I am by those who seem to ignore proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. If you want to participate in these debates, you will need to learn to let it go, in the same way that I ignore another's inferior writing skills ;)

As for the Second Amendment: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I love how so many people seem to conveniently ignore the beginning of the amendment and the historical context in which it was written. The Bill of Rights is not unlike the bible; people seem rather fond of twisting and changing the context and interpretation so that it fits their needs at the time. Despite this issue of interpretation, the Supreme Court has reaffirmed that the 2nd Amendment guarantees an individual the right to possess guns in the home for self defense. However, they have also stated that this right is NOT UNLIMITED, and that our elected leaders may institute common sense gun laws to protect the public at large.

As for your assertion that "we need more protection from all the crazy people in this country.".... well, if the "crazy people" didn't have such ease of access to assault weapons, we wouldn't have this need, now would we?

The sad thing about the bulk of the mass shootings that have occurred in the past 25 years or so is that most of them have been done by white males who don't have any significant criminal history. Many of them don't have any documented history of mental illness, either. The funny thing about mental illness is that you (or your family) has to recognize that you in fact have some type of instability AND then seek treatment for it in order for their to be any traceable evidence of it that would show up in a background check and prevent that individual from owning a gun. Granted, AFTER one of these guys has snapped, people that knew them pop up out of the woodwork and describe them as being disturbed, unbalanced, or otherwise "off"...but by then it's a little too late.

Let's take Wade Michael Page - the shooter at the Sikh Temple. He was a 40 y/o white male and Army Veteran. He served for six years as both Hawk missile repair specialist and then in psychological operations. He was given a less-than-honorable discharge for "patterns of misconduct". However, he had no documented history of mental illness, and his only "criminal" history was writing a bad check in 1997. He did have known ties to white supremacist groups. The gun he used to kill six people and wound four others was legally purchased by him.

When you look at James Eagan Holmes - the shooter in Aurora, you have an unusually bright, gifted, and accomplished student. No criminal history whatsoever. In the 6 months prior to the shooting, his academic performance started to deteriorate. Profiles done on him suggest thwat while he was always a bit socially inept, he didn't really seem to start to mentally unravel until the early spring prior to the July shooting. Despite the fact that he was being treated by a school psychiatrist, he was legally able to purchase 4 guns and over 6000 rounds of ammunition during this period of time when it was - in retrospect - glaringly apparent that he was unhinged, and a danger to others.

IF prevention is truly a concern for you, than the only rational and logical option here is an assault weapons ban. Our current state clearly isn't working, and scores of innocent victims are being slaughtered at an alarming increase in frequency and numbers.

Christine, if I may correct you, anyone in the UK over the age of 14 can have a gun as long as it is licensed, although you are right about the storage. A licence is renewed every 5 years and costs about £50 regardless of how many guns the person owns, although there is a separate licence for shotguns. A person must have a reason for owning a gun which could be for sport. Self or home defence and hunting for food are not acceptable reasons.

Morris. Seems the hunters are doing fine in Australia without these weapons. Also our farmers do great without them too. Most people here are also quite happy that we don't really have many crazies doing violent home invasions nor armed robberies with military type weapons. Yes, robberies still occur and on a more rare occasion a home invasion, though even less people are killed or maimed because of it. But I guess you like your violent society. I wonder what your view would have been if it was YOUR 6 yo that got shot to pieces at school. Oh wait, if the gun laws remain as lack as they are now, you may just get to see if that opinion of yours changes, because you can never know where and when the next attack is going to occur. But I can guarantee you that your child's school will not have armed guards/police/army or teachers. THERE IS NO MONEY to pay for this.

As the beginning of this thread was titled with OMFG I would think that sets the precedent for the language used. Those that are offended by profanity are free to leave the conversation. Scientific studies have proven that swearing assists in relieving pain which cannot be a bad thing. We are all on here to debate, discuss and express ourselves in whatever way we feel appropriate, that can include disagreeing with others' views and their opinions but not disagreeing by insulting. As far as I can see, no one was personally cursed at by Mary N if that was who was being referred to. Geez is a euphemism for Jesus and a profanity against the Christian faith'these women' 'arrogant enough' 'bunch of narcissistic women' and calling Joan ignorant IS offensive and finally FLIPPING is a euphemism for FUCKINGSMH is shake my head by the wayCan we all now stick to the subject without any further personal attacks or comments - come on ladies

Tina give up these women cannot carry on a debate without attacking you personally or cussing. They seem to think they are the sole owners of this country and are arrogant enough to think they should control what everyone thinks. They don't want a debate they just want you to listen to them and tell them they are right. I gave up walk away it's much easier than to argue with a bunch of narcissistic women that have never hunted or owned a gun in their lives......They sure are on here putting statistics and we all know for every statistic there is another statistic.......And Joan for the record. It may be "okay" to cuss but to me it just show how ignorant you are. I do believe you're a "teacher" how flippen scary is that.........

wooooowwwww. what happened to the whole debate etiquette.??? man you're flipping out right now...... GEEZ do you talk like that in front of your kids. now be a big girl and drop the high school cursing. and what's SMH???

im just saying. its for our protection. military and police are highly trained and practiced, the're not jo schmos and teachers in small towns. if you cant depend on them to protect you then DONT CALL THEM next time your house is being robbed or your being raped on the street.

its called prevention hunny. not a militiant police country. dont you see the news!?!? we need more protection from all the crazy people in this country. if youre not doing anything illegal you shouldnt be worried about the extra military presence.

a couple months a widowed 23 year old was home alone with her 5 month old. Her military husband died recently overseas. 3 guys broke into her home and she heard it, and grabbed her shot gun. she shot and killed the first one in the door and the rest fled. what do you think would've happened to her if she didnt have her GUN!??!?

Some california lady that recently moved to tampa was home with her two girls. a man broke in, grabbed some items and then grabbed HER DAUGHTER. the mother grabbed her gun and told him to drop the girl. HE DID ONLY BCOZ A GUN WAS POINTED TO HIS FACE. what the hell woulda happened to that little girl if her mom didnt have a gun!?!?!?

i cant believe your insults to the government. we have the right to bear arms. we have the right to protect ourselves. if we dont want to reload after every 20 shots then its our right to choose a weapon that allows that option. and if you heard the news. the MOTHER let the child get the guns. the MOTHER was the one practice shooting with her child!!!! it's the gun owners responsibility to what happens with their weapons. she shouldnt have let anyone get ahold of it, especially an unstable person.