TD - New Thread as I did not want to hi-jack the trail map thread.

Originally Posted by traildoc

Phillbo and Eazy_E are both TD haters. They want to ignore my posts but they can't because they are weak in their convictions. They know 95% of what I communicate is the truth, and they want to participate in the Sedrama.

If I can help Skid Map develop the best interactive map in Sedona I make them eat crow about what I am trying to accomplish.

In Sedona 5% of the local users hate what the mountain bikers have accomplished here. Both Phillbo and Eazy_E think that Sedona is going backwards. If you have thousands of riders riding our get trail system that kind of debunks that mentality. A really cool interactive map like Skid Map could help with promoting of Sedona mountain biking.

Jennifer and her boyfriend have adopted most of her boyfriends trails whether she wants to adopt the other user built trails is an unknown at this point in time. Her boyfriend told her the other user built trails are sh*ty. I don't agree and hopefully we will be able to get the RTCA to see the merit of those other trails.

Let's say Jennifer's boyfriend tells Jennifer Drano is a sh*ty trail. He has a lot of clout with Jennifer and he knows Drano intimately. He is the one that "get's to decide", right? But let's say the reviews on SkidMap say it is a blast riding downhill and it rides nicely uphill. Now who is Jennifer going to believe a bunch of independent users or her boyfriend? Ultimately SkidMap will decide which trail is fun to ride not Jennifer's boyfriend.

TD

If someone disagrees with your methods, determines if they are a hater or not? That's like saying I'm a racist because I disagree with the policies of Obama.

As far as the Jennifer comment, except for she might be following the steps lined out for her! What makes her efforts different than what you have done? You have already stated you modified trails to fit your view of how something should be! Are you simply upset that someone else is making the calls and not you? Repeatedly mentioning Jennifer and questioning her motives seems to be a from of hate, do you hate Jennifer?

I would like to know the algorithm you have used to create all your percentages. If the data going in is garbage, well the data coming out may be as well.

Lastly, did Skid Map request your help in creation of the interactive map? If so great, if not why do you feel the need to butt in to what is already in motion?

I await you prompt and factual responses.

Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

I just want to say that I'm not a hater. John, or whatever the hell that guy's real name is, I respect that guy. I think his heart is in the right place, and he's a decent advocate. I've got nothing against John. Now, his Mr. Hyde, Traildoc, I am a hater. Me, me, me, I, I, I, I did this, I did that, etc. It's nothing but pure masturbation of ego. I'll do whatever I want, and if I get caught, it's because they're out to get me and I'm the victim and I'm just misunderstood, and everybody else is a hater, and they just want to ride my coat tails.

I just want to say that I'm not a hater. John, or whatever the hell that guy's real name is, I respect that guy. I think his heart is in the right place, and he's a decent advocate. I've got nothing against John. Now, his Mr. Hyde, Traildoc, I am a hater. Me, me, me, I, I, I, I did this, I did that, etc. It's nothing but pure masturbation of ego. I'll do whatever I want, and if I get caught, it's because they're out to get me and I'm the victim and I'm just misunderstood, and everybody else is a hater, and they just want to ride my coat tails.

Every new resident gets a late 90's subaru, a north face jacket (from the thrift store), half of a beard, and 1oz of their preferred substance from the city. Jam bands?

I actually was thinking that a Subaru would be a pretty practical vehicle for my lifestyle. I can't grow a beard, or really any facial hair for that matter, and only an ounce? That's like a slow Tuesday.

If someone disagrees with your methods, determines if they are a hater or not? That's like saying I'm a racist because I disagree with the policies of Obama.

As far as the Jennifer comment, except for she might be following the steps lined out for her! What makes her efforts different than what you have done? You have already stated you modified trails to fit your view of how something should be! Are you simply upset that someone else is making the calls and not you? Repeatedly mentioning Jennifer and questioning her motives seems to be a from of hate, do you hate Jennifer?

I would like to know the algorithm you have used to create all your percentages. If the data going in is garbage, well the data coming out may be as well.

Lastly, did Skid Map request your help in creation of the interactive map? If so great, if not why do you feel the need to butt in to what is already in motion?

I await you prompt and factual responses.

64:

Before I answer your questions I want to find out what you know about the whole Jennifer thing.

1. Who is the number one mountain bike trail builder in Sedona who built more user built trails than any other builder?

Before I answer your questions I want to find out what you know about the whole Jennifer thing.

1. Who is the number one mountain bike trail builder in Sedona who built more user built trails than any other builder?

You just made my point too. Me, me, me, I, I, I......

Let me ask you a question, what authority do you have to be the Sedona number one user built trail builder? That's all Forest Service land, not Traildoc land. Everybody has claim to that ground, so how come you're the decider when it comes to where a trail goes?

Attacking someone that does not even partake in this forum is low class.

Come on 64 even you can do better than this. I am just trying to see if you have learned the history of Sedona user built trails which I consider to be pretty nice. Who is the number one trail builder of mountain biker user built trails?

Question #2- Who is the number one promoter of Sedona mountain biking user built trails?

Come on 64 even you can do better than this. I am just trying to see if you have learned the history of Sedona user built trails which I consider to be pretty nice. Who is the number one trail builder of mountain biker user built trails?

Question #2- Who is the number one promoter of Sedona mountain biking user built trails?

Did not your mother tell you to not answer a question with a question? If you are unwilling to answer a few simple questions of mine! Why would I respond to anything you ask?

Correct or not, the continued attack on Jennifer and her BF is against MTBR forum policy.

1.) The message insults or degrades another member of the community.

7.) The message is posted as "flame-bait" and is posted to incite flames and insults.

Question 3: Who was fined for trail altering misconduct in Sedona?

Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

. I am just trying to see if you have learned the history of Sedona user built trails which I consider to be pretty nice. Who is the number one trail builder of mountain biker user built trails?

Here is the gist of the problem. No one really cares about the history but YOU and you continue to ram it down everyone's throat with every post you make. Try posting about something other than sedona trails and you may not come off as so damn annoying.

So why don't you all get together for a ride: TD, Phillbo, Eazy and 64. That way we can maybe stop these rants you all seam to have. Let say TD comes down and rides PMP and then you guys go up and ride sedonuts with TD. Just saying, this cant keep going on n on n on. Hopefully if you guys ride together you might see things different?

So why don't you all get together for a ride: TD, Phillbo, Eazy and 64. That way we can maybe stop these rants you all seam to have. Let say TD comes down and rides PMP and then you guys go up and ride sedonuts with TD. Just saying, this cant keep going on n on n on. Hopefully if you guys ride together you might see things different?

All I'm wondering is why he keeps calling out people on a forum that don't seem to use the forum. It's like talking behind ones back so to speak. He states he likes the work Jennifer's BF did. Then complains those trails are being adopted over others. I have to agree with Easy, sounds like the day end and day out rant is poor me TD.

Best be Sedona, as I don't want him to come to PMP and get any funny ideas on what needs fixing.

Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

1- I am having trouble following this post, can someone dumb it down for me?

2- DO NOT incvite TD to PMP. If he sees how dangerous some of that can be and the way it was built (mainly by miners, 60's dirtbikers, horses, kids partying and 4x4's- and it holds up pretty well doesn't it?) it will end up looking like the cart path behind my house!

1- I am having trouble following this post, can someone dumb it down for me?

2- DO NOT incvite TD to PMP. If he sees how dangerous some of that can be and the way it was built (mainly by miners, 60's dirtbikers, horses, kids partying and 4x4's- and it holds up pretty well doesn't it?) it will end up looking like the cart path behind my house!

Okay, back to not giving a f00k.

I really was interested in what TD thought established a hater.

I have never seen a trail crew or illegal trail op working on PMP. Mother nature does a nice job now and then.

Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

If someone disagrees with your methods, determines if they are a hater or not? That's like saying I'm a racist because I disagree with the policies of Obama.

As far as the Jennifer comment, except for she might be following the steps lined out for her! What makes her efforts different than what you have done? You have already stated you modified trails to fit your view of how something should be! Are you simply upset that someone else is making the calls and not you? Repeatedly mentioning Jennifer and questioning her motives seems to be a from of hate, do you hate Jennifer?

I would like to know the algorithm you have used to create all your percentages. If the data going in is garbage, well the data coming out may be as well.

Lastly, did Skid Map request your help in creation of the interactive map? If so great, if not why do you feel the need to butt in to what is already in motion?

I await you prompt and factual responses.

C64,

You have made some good points, and you "know" I have respect for you, the mere thought of this thread is somewhat defensive/offensive in nature just as TD's posts in regards to Jenifer and her boyfriend. I have always been about being positive, in approach, considerate of others, and constructive with thought and content that's relevant to topic. I don't see any of this other than a way of forcing TD to behave a certain way on the public forum by pointing it out in a "call you out manner" that is offensive in nature and elicits a predetermined negative reaction to point out fault in his approach and I would expect a negative response.

I too have been at fault for this and have seen that it is not positive, considerate or constructive, I have changed. I had a very nice visit from TD and his wife, a few days back and there is better understanding between us because of it. Thank you TD "John" for lending an ear and sharing your thoughts I apreciate it!

The perception that the FS is not doing their job is viable, and the reasoning to jump to such perceptions is completely understandable by me and by others besides TD. His perception of why they manage the land and the reasoning of the FS' actions and considerations towards him would cause "Jari Kari" in just about anyone if truth were understood by all. This, is what is irritating TD, and to all concerned including myself. How each of us go about dealing with such frustrations should come from a positive, considerate, relevant and constructive perspective that is selfless second only to what is considered best for all concerned. The thoughts and feelings shouldn't be directed towards any one person or group,they should be directed to the issue of concern. My concern is with the situation itself and the fact that I see no reason why it should even exist.

The WWW provides loud voice to thought, and others who hear and consider such a voice, without, weighing consideration fairly of the actual strength of that voice, as it should be factored with the number of voices of concern it's "pooled with" is not giving that voice fair consideration, I have also done this in the past as well, but no more for me.

Should TD be able to use the MTBR forum, yes, as long as the topic is relevant to what MTBR intended the forum's use to be for and about; and as long as the intent of topic is not malicious, or conflicts with the intended purpose of the forum.

TD is a very loud voice that "forsake the approach" is one of very many, that have resonable concern. TD is however very passionate, knowledgeable, and worthy of more consideration as his opinion is shared by many, but his approach and methods could be better.

All I hope for is that I may be a fair example in which he and others may follow for the betterment of forum discussion.

Thank you for your time and consideration C64 and others, it's appreciated!

Last edited by RideNShine; 01-12-2013 at 05:14 PM.

Personal quote: "If at first you don't succeed, critically re-think it and do."

OK, I just got back from doing a ride with two hot shot riders from Phoenix who came up to Sedona to enjoy our great user built trail experience. Out of a 15 mile ride about two miles were on FS built trail.

Some of the ride was on a trail Jennifer's boyfriend believes is a sh*ty trail. The Phoenix guys thought that trail was fun, so is Jennifer's boyfriend always correct when evaluating a trail, I think the answer is no and I think someone like our resident geologist would agree.

So let's get back on topic.

Qusestion #4: When you have served your time and paid your fine and the paper work doesn't say you have to show remorse, should you be allowed to help mitigate trail erosion in Sedona on FS system trails?

OK, I just got back from doing a ride with two hot shot riders from Phoenix who came up to Sedona to enjoy our great user built trail experience. Out of a 15 mile ride about two miles were on FS built trail.

Some of the ride was on a trail Jennifer's boyfriend believes is a sh*ty trail. The Phoenix guys thought that trail was fun, so is Jennifer's boyfriend always correct when evaluating a trail, I think the answer is no and I think someone like our resident geologist would agree.

So let's get back on topic.

Qusestion #4: When you have served your time and paid your fine and the paper work doesn't say you have to show remorse, shouldn't you be allowed to help mitigate trail erosion in Sedona on FS system trails?

You have the cart before the horse again, Ask first "Are they being fair to you; in their role as the local land manager, in forcing action upon you, to control what you can and cannot do on FS lands in which they manage, when fair and honest consideration is given to you when determining what was considered just in actions against you, when the community as a whole is fairly considered?" Undoubtedly NO IMHHO!

Personal quote: "If at first you don't succeed, critically re-think it and do."

So why don't you all get together for a ride: TD, Phillbo, Eazy and 64. That way we can maybe stop these rants you all seam to have. Let say TD comes down and rides PMP and then you guys go up and ride sedonuts with TD. Just saying, this cant keep going on n on n on. Hopefully if you guys ride together you might see things different?

That's just crazy enough to work.

"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

We don't care about Jennifer's Boyfriend's opinion. Can't you get that through your head?

Only YOU care.

Phillbo,

I think a better statement would be is "It (the JBO) has no relevance; here, to the trail inventory solution, or to anyone but you, however, we all here on the forum, can agree that getting as much of the current trail inventory in Sedona adopted would be a good focus for all and provides the best, most constructive common ground in which to work on, when it comes to solving this issue."

Personal quote: "If at first you don't succeed, critically re-think it and do."

Cripes sake! How many years will you let let yourself get trolled? We're talking *years* of the same stuff. Most of regulars here over the last five years have gotten trolled by a TD post, took our lumps and laughed it off.
Arguing with TD is like trying to convince a woman that the toilet seat should be left up and not down. It's also like chopping up celery, mixing that with motor oil and using it as a salve for sore joints.

"Lastly, did Skid Map request your help in creation of the interactive map?"

No they didn't but I did offer my help, as I have offered my help to the Sedona FS to help reduce erosion potential on FS system trails. I also offered to help with improved signage in problematic areas where users are constantly looking for better trail information.

Cripes sake! How many years will you let let yourself get trolled? We're talking *years* of the same stuff. Most of regulars here over the last five years have gotten trolled by a TD post, took our lumps and laughed it off.
Arguing with TD is like trying to convince a woman that the toilet seat should be left up and not down. It's also like chopping up celery, mixing that with motor oil and using it as a salve for sore joints.

chongoman,

What up with this?

What about what I'm posting has any similarity to "trolling and taking lumps from TD"?

Personal quote: "If at first you don't succeed, critically re-think it and do."

"Lastly, did Skid Map request your help in creation of the interactive map?"

No they didn't but I did offer my help, as I have offered my help to the Sedona FS to help reduce erosion potential on FS system trails. I also offered to help with improved signage in problematic areas where users are constantly looking for better trail information.

Any other questions?

<<<< raises hand eagerly!!

How is "continually whispering in a def ear of the blind" going for you when trying to offer suggestions?

Personal quote: "If at first you don't succeed, critically re-think it and do."

Qusestion #4: When you have served your time and paid your fine and the paper work doesn't say you have to show remorse, should you be allowed to help mitigate trail erosion in Sedona on FS system trails?

Unfortunately, you already proved that you aren't willing to play by their rules once. Not showing remorse shows you probably wont play by their rules in the future. So can you honestly say that if you were them you would let it slide?

The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is youíll crash.
- Julie Furtado

Unfortunately, you already proved that you aren't willing to play by their rules once. Not showing remorse shows you probably wont play by their rules in the future. So can you honestly say that if you were them you would let it slide?

Woahey:

I have been waiting for this question for a while and you finally came up with it. Have you ever heard the quote "keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer".

Jennifer and her boyfriend's goal was to make an example out of me in front of the Sedona community. She turned me into the LEO for doing superior work on FS system trails that were not rideable by the advanced masses.

If they let me work for them I would continue my superior erosion control work and the trails I worked on would be easy to follow due to well thought out trail reinforcement signage.

Yes I can honestly say I would have OK'ed my request to adopt the Anaconda trail, that I here just got adopted by a Sedona icon, who is one of the pioneers to find the Mescal route which the FS recently adopted and is a favorite in the hiking community.

I have been waiting for this question for a while and you finally came up with it. Have you ever heard the quote "keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer".

Jennifer and her boyfriend's goal was to make an example out of me in front of the Sedona community. She turned me into the LEO for doing superior work on FS system trails that were not rideable by the advanced masses.

If they let me work for them I would continue my superior erosion control work and the trails I worked on would be easy to follow due to well thought out trail reinforcement signage.

Yes I can honestly say I would have OK'ed my request to adopt the Anaconda trail, that I here just got adopted by a Sedona icon, who is one of the pioneers to find the Mescal route which the FS recently adopted and is a favorite in the hiking community.

TD,

What part of any of these statements, show a beneficial way of dealing with "your" issue with anyone in the FS land management office.

I am only offering this as a suggestion from a friend, These matters should really be discussed in private with those who have relevance, not on this forum,

Respectfully, R&S

Personal quote: "If at first you don't succeed, critically re-think it and do."