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Key word being typically, there's nothing proving that it can't be an Egg move or otherwise. Really, I think they just wanted to showcase Glow Punch and Fennekin could do that, whether or not it's a level move doesn't negate the rest of trend.

Are there any cases, though, of Egg moves being shown in trailers? I don't recall any, but I don't recall a lot.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

And forgive me, but that's letting personal bias cloud what's reality. Pokémon learn moves all the time that you'd think they wouldn't learn and vice versa at that, because of that I don't see that being nothing more then a self-imposed barrier that's not supported by official instances.

There's almost always a good reason why they do, though, and I'm wagering that there's a good reason Fennekin gets Glow Punch as well. Either there's some aspect of Fennekin we don't know about (I doubt that they would be relevant), or there's some aspect to the move we don't know about (there are many).

Originally Posted by Taodragon

And again, what's to say it's not for Fennekin?

Well, it's a move used by Fennekin specifically, and that's what they're showing. It clearly is for Fennekin.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Honestly, I'm not nitpicking because I'm using instances that have already been established by previous Pokemon

About three of them, out of the many Pokemon that learn punching moves, and the many that lack limbs. Outside of the ones you're naming, those two groups of Pokemon don't intersect. When you select the few Pokemon in both groups, that's nitpicking.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

you're using bias and observations (that can be wrong) to support your claim. Really, it's seems that you're reading more into what the move means despite not knowing much about it aside from how it looks and what it's name is. Observations can only get us so far, established patterns and instances are much more easier to follow because those are what we've seen before and can easily see being kept in future instances.

And the patterns we've seen thus far are that punching moves are typically restricted to Pokemon capable of using them, outside of the cases where a few Pokemon get them due to evolving into something that can use them, and those cases are all via Egg or tutor, which you've admitted isn't likely to be the case with Fennekin.

On the other hand, if Glow Punch is essentially just creating a "glow that punches" (an altogether highly feasible hypothesis), then you don't need to cite a rare case only applicable in certain circumstances to understand why Fennekin is capable of using it and why it's shown using it; it can create a glow (more easily than it could leap up and rocket-fist), then the glow does the punching. How it looks and what its name is aren't the end-all-be-all, but they're nonetheless evidence, which the notion that Fennekin evolves into a biped doesn't have as of yet.

Are there any cases, though, of Egg moves being shown in trailers? I don't recall any, but I don't recall a lot.

There are some, and again, it could be a level-up move regardless.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

There's almost always a good reason why they do, though, and I'm wagering that there's a good reason Fennekin gets Glow Punch as well. Either there's some aspect of Fennekin we don't know about (I doubt that they would be relevant), or there's some aspect to the move we don't know about (there are many).

"Almost" is not always, in fact it's not even almost. Pokémon learning moves you think they shouldn't is not an uncommon occurrence in this series, just because you don't think Fennekin shouldn't learn a punching move doesn't mean that it can't. Also, playing by your criteria, wouldn't learning the move for its evolution count as "some aspect to Fennekin we don't know about?"

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

Well, it's a move used by Fennekin specifically, and that's what they're showing. It clearly is for Fennekin.

Yes, and that's why it doesn't matter if it's a punching move, to clarify, they wanted to show Fennekin with the move whether because they wanted it to be known or that it's special to Fennekin for some reason. Now, special to Fennekin can mean a lot of things, including hinting at a bipedal stance.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

About three of them, out of the many Pokemon that learn punching moves, and the many that lack limbs. Outside of the ones you're naming, those two groups of Pokemon don't intersect. When you select the few Pokemon in both groups, that's nitpicking.

They fit exactly into the criteria I gave you, they're Pokémon related to bipeds, all of them even the ones I didn't mention. So I don't see how that's nitpicking when a criteria is already used and supported by established fact. On top of that, it comes off as silly to accuse me of nitpicking considering you're also saying "I just don't see Glow Punch as a punching move because it glows" in the same breath, you're picking out specific parts to fit your claim even though "glowing" can just be a different effect among the likes of having Fire in Fire Punch.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

And the patterns we've seen thus far are that punching moves are typically restricted to Pokemon capable of using them, outside of the cases where a few Pokemon get them due to evolving into something that can use them, and those cases are all via Egg or tutor, which you've admitted isn't likely to be the case with Fennekin.

And that can fit for Fennekin's evolution, there's nothing saying that Fennekin doesn't fit into the same realm as Wooper or Gastly.

I said it has a point to it, not that it's unlikely.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

On the other hand, if Glow Punch is essentially just creating a "glow that punches" (an altogether highly feasible hypothesis), then you don't need to cite a rare case only applicable in certain circumstances to understand why Fennekin is capable of using it and why it's shown using it; it can create a glow (more easily than it could leap up and rocket-fist), then the glow does the punching. How it looks and what its name is aren't the end-all-be-all, but they're nonetheless evidence, which the notion that Fennekin evolves into a biped doesn't have as of yet.

No, because your hypothesis only uses certain parts that fit it. You only address that it has "Glow" in it and that the animation's different. The former doesn't mean much on its own and needs more to be developed before hypothesis can be used and the animation, as you said, still uses the dead on punch typical of others of its type and thus just as easily (if not more so) can just be another punch with new visual effect. On top of that, you ignore that for the most part, it has a lot in common with regular punches (name and visual effect just going by observation), you're making the animation your mountain when it's just a molehill right now. It doesn't have enough to build itself on.

Really, I'm not ignoring the "Glow" in Glow Punch, I admit there's a effect that we haven't seen yet but I'm just not pretending it's something that it's not. You can speculate that there's something new about it but don't dismiss everything else about it. Everything points to it being a punch of sorts, I don't see why you're so adamant in ignoring that.

"Almost" is not always, in fact it's not even almost. Pokémon learning moves you think they shouldn't is not an uncommon occurrence in this series, just because you don't think Fennekin shouldn't learn a punching move doesn't mean that it can't.

When is there a case of a Pokemon learning a level-up move that obviously doesn't fit, then?

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Also, playing by your criteria, wouldn't learning the move for its evolution count as "some aspect to Fennekin we don't know about?"

Yes, but I then went on to explain why that's not really a reason for Fennekin itself to get the move if it doesn't fit.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Yes, and that's why it doesn't matter if it's a punching move, to clarify, they wanted to show Fennekin with the move whether because they wanted it to be known or that it's special to Fennekin for some reason. Now, special to Fennekin can mean a lot of things, including hinting at a bipedal stance.

So, they're showing it using a move that doesn't fit with its anatomy and won't make sense in order to dangle some sort of hint at what Fennekin might possibly become?

I doubt that it's going to be Fennekin-specific; I feel as though it's going to be something generic.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

They fit exactly into the criteria I gave you, they're Pokémon related to bipeds. So I don't see how that's nitpicking when a criteria is already used and supported by established fact but "I just don't see Glow Punch as a punching move" isn't.

And that can fit for Fennekin's evolution, there's nothing saying that Fennekin doesn't fit into the same realm as Wooper or Gastly.

I said it has a point to it, not that it's unlikely.

Right, but then this goes back to the other points - there aren't too many that learn said moves, they learn the moves via Egg or tutor, and we know the evolutions get the moves, why would they show a punching move that's probably an Egg or tutor move and associating it with Fennekin, maybe there's something about the move other than just punching that makes sense for Fennekin to get it.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

No, because your hypothesis only uses certain parts that fit it. You only address that it has "Glow" in it and that the animation's different. The former doesn't mean much on its own and needs more to be developed before hypothesis can be used and the animation, as you said, still uses the dead on punch typical of others of its type and thus just as easily (if not more so) can just be another punch with new visual effect. On top of that, you ignore that for the most part, it has a lot in common with regular punches (name and visual effect just going by observation), you're making the animation your mountain when it's just a molehill right now. It doesn't have enough to build itself on.

I'm building it off of pretty much everything we know so far: the move has glow in the name, said glow is shown separate from the punch itself (unlike elemental punches and such, where the element is shown as part of the punch), the Pokemon using it likely can't form an actual punch, nor does it like that's what it's even attempting to do (there's no running towards the target animation).

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Really, I'm not ignoring the "Glow" in Glow Punch, I admit there's a effect that we haven't seen yet but I'm just not pretending it's something that it's not. You can speculate that there's something new about it but don't dismiss everything else about it. Everything points to it being a punch of sorts, I don't see why you're so adamant in ignoring that.

A reminder: I'm not arguing that it's not a punch, I'm arguing that the user doesn't necessarily need to punch in order to use it. The idea is that punch comes out of the glow and that the move will be a special move (but one flagged as punch-based), hence the name, animations applied, and how the user is doing it.

If it makes you more comfortable, I'm arguing that it's a punch in almost every regard, except for being physical (and maybe contact).

The legendaries using Hyper Beam is possibly one, unfortunately it's hard to tell since almost all the Pokémon used are new ones.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

When is there a case of a Pokemon learning a level-up move that obviously doesn't fit, then?

Tentacool learning Hex comes to mind. Regardless, I don't see how restricting it to just Level up moves suddenly justifies how odd some Move Tutor and TM moves that certain Pokémon can learn.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

Yes, but I then went on to explain why that's not really a reason for Fennekin itself to get the move if it doesn't fit.

And I already explained why that doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

So, they're showing it using a move that doesn't fit with its anatomy and won't make sense in order to dangle some sort of hint at what Fennekin might possibly become?

Because as you said, their anatomy doesn't fit learning punches but when you consider what they evolve into, then it does. Same thing can happen with Fennekin.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

I doubt that it's going to be Fennekin-specific; I feel as though it's going to be something generic.

Right, but then this goes back to the other points - there aren't too many that learn said moves, they learn the moves via Egg or tutor, and we know the evolutions get the moves, why would they show a punching move that's probably an Egg or tutor move and associating it with Fennekin, maybe there's something about the move other than just punching that makes sense for Fennekin to get it.

Potentially yes, but we'll have to see.

Because it's a unique move it can learn? And in the same vein, why does it have to be so special for Fennekin to learn it? Especially when special can be anything within reason.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

I'm building it off of pretty much everything we know so far: the move has glow in the name, said glow is shown separate from the punch itself (unlike elemental punches and such, where the element is shown as part of the punch), the Pokemon using it likely can't form an actual punch, nor does it like that's what it's even attempting to do (there's no running towards the target animation).

Again, you're assuming based on a restricted instance. Of course there's no animation for it if the Pokémon in question doesn't have the feature, I mean if Alakazam used Iron Tail, we'd still expect it to do a different animation then using its non-existent tail. Glow is a name and means little on its own, the animation doesn't necessarily equal suddenly being more special, possibly I'll agree but it could be special in a different way then you're thinking. Also, Pokémon that can't form a punch doesn't mean that it can't be a punch, instances already prove otherwise. Also, we've only seen one specific instance of a Pokémon running up with a physical attack (Froakie using Acrobat), when TalonFlame used Aerial Ace it didn't run up either.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

A reminder: I'm not arguing that it's not a punch, I'm arguing that the user doesn't necessarily need to punch in order to use it. The idea is that punch comes out of the glow and that the move will be a special move (but one flagged as punch-based), hence the name, animations applied, and how the user is doing it.

If it makes you more comfortable, I'm arguing that it's a punch in almost every regard, except for being physical (and maybe contact).

Potentially yes, but potentially no. I can agree that maybe it can be special but I don't agree that it won't be anything else because other instances may hint otherwise.

The legendaries using Hyper Beam is possibly one, unfortunately it's hard to tell since almost all the Pokémon used are new ones.

I was talking about from past new game speculation, like DP or BW; I don't recall any from BW, besides the shiny Raikou using Aura Sphere (the move from the event). Besides that, they stuck to STAB moves and such.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Tentacool learning Hex comes to mind. Regardless, I don't see how restricting it to just Level up moves suddenly justifies how odd some Move Tutor and TM moves that certain Pokémon can learn.

I'm not justifying odd tutor/Egg/TM moves, I'm saying that if it's level-up (which seems pretty likely to me, given the circumstances), then it's a lot harder to justify because it's not a tutor/Egg/TM move.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Because as you said, their anatomy doesn't fit learning punches but when you consider what they evolve into, then it does. Same thing can happen with Fennekin.

and then they only get the moves because the moves are so hard to get, which doesn't hold as much water for new Pokemon due to reusable TMs and such; it's easier to just give the evolution the move, so why does Fennekin have it, etc...

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Then why are you so up in arms about it learning Glow Punch?

I'm not; I'm trying to figure why it does, and looking at aspects such as the move's animation as to why.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Because it's a unique move it can learn? And in the same vein, why does it have to be so special for Fennekin to learn it? Especially when special can be anything within reason.

I don't know if it'll be Fennekin-specific, but I'm guessing it won't be. I'm not saying it's "special" in any sense other than how the term is used in-game, but that the move may be different from punching moves we've seen.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Again, you're assuming based on a restricted instance. Of course there's no animation for it if the Pokémon in question doesn't have the feature, I mean if Alakazam used Iron Tail, we'd still expect it to do a different animation then using its non-existent tail.

Yeah, it'd do something to suggest physical, which Fennekin doesn't.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Glow is a name and means little on its own, the animation doesn't necessarily equal suddenly being more special, possibly I'll agree but it could be special in a different way then you're thinking.

It's name plus animation, and the animation shows glow giving way to punch.

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Also, Pokémon that can't form a punch doesn't mean that it can't be a punch, instances already prove otherwise.

yeah, for reasons of evolutions having easier access, like with Snorunt and Spikes

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Also, we've only seen one specific instance of a Pokémon running up with a physical attack (Froakie using Acrobat), when TalonFlame used Aerial Ace it didn't run up either.

well, I mean

it IS a bird

Originally Posted by Taodragon

Potentially yes, but potentially no. I can agree that maybe it can be special but I don't agree that it won't be anything else because other instances may hint otherwise.

No offense, but this is a really stupid argument. But I do have to agree with Taodragon, it could quite easily be an egg move, and lots of egg moves are strange, I could do a quick search and find a ton of them.

I was talking about from past new game speculation, like DP or BW; I don't recall any from BW, besides the shiny Raikou using Aura Sphere (the move from the event). Besides that, they stuck to STAB moves and such.

It's looks like that's at a standstill, I'm not looking up all that information at this time.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

I'm not justifying odd tutor/Egg/TM moves, I'm saying that if it's level-up (which seems pretty likely to me, given the circumstances), then it's a lot harder to justify because it's not a tutor/Egg/TM move.

And I gave you an example where it doesn't really, there's odd cases regardless.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

and then they only get the moves because the moves are so hard to get, which doesn't hold as much water for new Pokemon due to reusable TMs and such; it's easier to just give the evolution the move, so why does Fennekin have it, etc...

Doesn't matter, they still have moves that you'd think they wouldn't have.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

I don't know if it'll be Fennekin-specific, but I'm guessing it won't be. I'm not saying it's "special" in any sense other than how the term is used in-game, but that the move may be different from punching moves we've seen.

It may, not saying it couldn't be, on the flip side I see how my argument can be dismissed as "nitpicking" in the same breath

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

Yeah, it'd do something to suggest physical, which Fennekin doesn't.

Doesn't have to, it can or cannot. We've seen examples where it doesn't quite give the impression you're trying to get at. Talonflame doesn't fly up to Haunter when it uses Aerial Ace, no reason to believe the same couldn't hold for Fennekin.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

It's name plus animation, and the animation shows glow giving way to punch.

And as I've said before: That's not enough on its own, again Fire Punch hits the opponent with a fiery fist, doesn't mean it' special.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

yeah, for reasons of evolutions having easier access, like with Snorunt and Spikes

Doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

I
well, I mean

it IS a bird

I don't see how that's not a counterexample.

Originally Posted by Excitable Boy

yeah, Stewart's on, sure

Well then, we're never going to agree on this, enjoy your Stewart.

Originally Posted by Yveltal96

No offense, but this is a really stupid argument. But I do have to agree with Taodragon, it could quite easily be an egg move, and lots of egg moves are strange, I could do a quick search and find a ton of them.

Yeah you're right, I think at this point neither me or EB are going to relent so it's probably best to just let this argument die.

I saw on another site (Pokebeach I think) that apparently Augusts Coro Coro is going to have some big announcement-anyone else heard this?

Maybe they are going to reveal the starters full evolution lines? Really hope Fennekin is Fire/Psychic and Chespin is Grass/Dark tbh

Hoo, boy, welcome to the club.

Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

Yeah, it seems that the main theories for the August Corocoro claim that it'll either reveal new Starter-type or the strengths and weaknesses of Fairies. We'll just have to wait and see.

Showing moves that aren't part of a Pokemon's moveset is something i believe they would avoid. There would be no reason to showcase moves they don't naturally learn, because then they would create fake hype and wouldn't show what kind of Pokemon it truly is. By the way, Chespin used Aerial Ace, not Cut, in the video.

Aww, just before the trailer was released with the whole Glow Punch thing, I stated that Fennekin may evolve into a bipedal because it knows Scratch instead of Tackle. xP Now everyone is arguing about it because of Glow Punch. What if that noise was a Critical Hit instead? It sounds like something Bug types would use, so it could be a TM. Also to people who were stating that it did a lot of damage- Litleo was Lv 5 and Fennekin was Lv 14. Why does it really matter whether it stands on its hind legs or not? o3o

Aww, just before the trailer was released with the whole Glow Punch thing, I stated that Fennekin may evolve into a bipedal because it knows Scratch instead of Tackle. xP Now everyone is arguing about it because of Glow Punch. What if that noise was a Critical Hit instead? It sounds like something Bug types would use, so it could be a TM. Also to people who were stating that it did a lot of damage- Litleo was Lv 5 and Fennekin was Lv 14. Why does it really matter whether it stands on its hind legs or not? o3o

Time will tell.

Anyway, this game needs to be released now. The wait is too long. :c

It was a definite SE sound

It matters because every other fully evolved Fire Starter already does.

I agree with you on the last part. But now we just have to survive August and September!!!

What if Fennekin's evo's tail morphs into a vaguely hand-like shape, like Yveltal's?

So we know unless it's really weird, Glow Punch is Fighting-Type. May or may not be Level-Up.

It might be a special fighting move like Zen Headbutt is a physical psiquic type move. And Fennekin is using it in his quadrupedal form, that doen't mean it has to become bipedal just because it used that move.

I personally think this trailer is just a GF troll move, most of us were pretty convinced that Fennekin would become fire/psiquic that's just a way to make us speculate a bit more.

We could even be trolled more if GF shows the first evolution of the starters and the 3 of them are still mono type.

I think the fact Fennekin knows Glow Punch says more that it will be bipedal than it being a fighting type.

thank you. someone sees sense. we don't know why that is super effective, it could be that it fairy is super effective against normal. even if it is a fighting type move it doesn't mean fennekin has to be.

Always watching. Always waiting. Never truly at peace in a realm of its own.
Giratina will return....someday.

thank you. someone sees sense. we don't know why that is super effective, it could be that it fairy is super effective against normal. even if it is a fighting type move it doesn't mean fennekin has to be.

Yes, but glow PUNCH. this means it will probably grow arms at evolution and could mean fire fighting. But I could be fairy. Im getting chespin either way.

Spoiler:- Credit + Claims:

I claimed Heracross , credit for the banner goes to Sworn Metalhead. I also claimed Beyond The Sky

Yes, but glow PUNCH. this means it will probably grow arms at evolution and could mean fire fighting. But I could be fairy. Im getting chespin either way.

That does not mean anything. Come on, if it can use the move as a fennekin it could still be able to use the same move even if it's evolved forms aren't bipedal. Also this move could be something like aura sphere, the pokemon gathers "energy" and unleashes it as a special attack in the form of a punch.

I'm sticking with my opinion, that's just a way to troll us a bit, but i'm pretty confident that fennekin won't become a fire fighting pokemon, even thou it will probably learn some fighting type attacks.