Nah - if you have a healer and a tank survive the dance, they can duo the fight at level. Used to happen to me so very often because most of raid was either a) too lazy to learn the dance or b) just didn't move on time, usually due to lag. It takes a long time, but it took only two coordinated people to do the fight, even on 25 man.

I can vouch for this, at least on 10 man. My guild actually dragged my priest through Naxx for gear because I could survive the dance, unlike our normal healers. Which sucked, because Heigan was one of the bosses who dropped Dying Curse on 25 man, and my lock (much like every other caster) craved that trinket.

Incidentally (and totally unrelated to the OT) Dying Curse/Illustration is still my favorite trinket combo, due to the names of both and lore associated with the second.

Back OT: I'm not sure why listing all these mechanics from normal/heroic bosses is relevant, since LFR removes or dilutes anything that is really deadly. But since I am here, how about Instructor Razuvious? Even if they gave tanks the MC orbs like 10 man, it could potentially be a mess. Likewise with the beams on Netherspite, or the cubes on Magtheridon.

If the mechanics or fights isn't "dumbed down" or otherwise reduced in difficulty, what is the point of discussing it in relation to LFR? The point of LFR has always been a sub-normal difficulty mode for new or non-raiders without a steady normal group, since its inception. "These fights were so hard people without Vent or prior knowledge of mechanics or a coordinated pre-made team could never do them!" That doesn't say much.

This discussion, to me, essentially proves why LFR needs to be a reduced difficulty mode to be successful. Groups without sufficient communication simply cannot do some of the mechanics in certain fights.

Especially since half of the OP's list was either not completed by anyone (pre-Nerf C'Thun) or by a very, very VERY small percent of the raiding population (pre-Nerf Muru).

Well now that's hardly fair or accurate. There were some complicated fights in there, like Vashj and Kael.

Ive done PuGs on fights like lootreaver and there sure was a lot of wipes and no loot at the end of the night despite having a raid leader and players using vent. I would so hate to heal that fight in an LFR. Even if the fights was so simple, players still stood in bad and screwed the whole raid over. Lurker would be a fun fight as well which was also called a very easy boss at the time.

If the mechanics or fights isn't "dumbed down" or otherwise reduced in difficulty, what is the point of discussing it in relation to LFR? The point of LFR has always been a sub-normal difficulty mode for new or non-raiders without a steady normal group, since its inception. "These fights were so hard people without Vent or prior knowledge of mechanics or a coordinated pre-made team could never do them!" That doesn't say much.

This discussion, to me, essentially proves why LFR needs to be a reduced difficulty mode to be successful. Groups without sufficient communication simply cannot do some of the mechanics in certain fights.

There is no point of this thread outside of "Hurr durr, let's laugh at how stupid we think LFR players are."

While we're at it, why not throw Sinestra into the fray? If people are going to include Heroic LK or Yogg+0, then Heroic only bosses count to, right? Fact is that MOST organized raiding guilds were incapable of doing Heroic LK or Yogg+0 when the content was current. What would make anybody think that it would be acceptable for something that is specifically "dumbed down" for ease of completion like LFR to have any of these fights incorporated into them?

If LFR existed only as a tool with no dumbed down encounters, which raids would have just been brutal to try and finish? And please dont just say "All of them" Some raids were just pushovers, even in PuGs.

Heroic Lich King
Pre-nerf C'thun
Yogg-0
Prenerf M'uru

Do you seriously think any end boss of any WotLK or later expansion raid (not counting KT in Naxx, but rather Malygos or Sarth+3D) would fall over to the average LFR group? I can't imagine one, unnerfed. At least based on how LFR players are today.

Regarding every raid as 25man;
Naxx in 3.0 could probably be cleared if the group was a bit above average and if they had like BiS gear, but no way they'd clear Sarth+3D or Malygos

They can forget about clearing Ulduar

Forget about ToGC

Forget about ICC

Forget about Nef/Al'akir/Sinestra

Forget about Raggy

Forget about Spine/Madness

Forget about T14

Forget about Lei shen

Forget about Garrosh

No seriously in what way is "all of them" not an eligible answer?

I don't think an average LFR group would've been able to take down any raid on the hardest difficulty setting apart from a few Vanilla and/or TBC raids. Maybe, MAYBE Naxx25 or Malygos, but Sarth+3D is likely the easiest one following and they can just forget about that.

Like the cracker fed to the starving man, WoD was handed to the loyal player, starved of new content for 14 months in MoP.
At first, it was the best thing he had ever tasted, this new meal, but as his stomach started to grumble again, he realised the cracker was indeed just a hollow snack. He soon turned back to the cracker giver, eyes wide, open palms extended, an enquiring look as they asked, "please sir, Can I have some more?".

Interesting post... Tbh I think the reason why Blizz doesn't increase LFR difficulty / use LFR as a group finder tool isn't so much that people can't or wouldn't be able to figure out fights. (Even though if it were this way it would encourage LFR players into guilds...) It's more of the fact that if LFR wasn't easy, normal players wouldn't do LFR. This would lead to LFR just tanking and gathering dust.