Playstation3 is coming next month, and from all that I can see it will have some kind of Java support. BD DVD should have it, and from what I could find on the net, the built in browser will support Java.

So, exactly what Java we are talking about?

And does Sun have any plans to support newest Java on PS3, because it seems that Yellow Dog Linux is coming for Playstation 3, and will make PS3 their primary platform.

In short, can you guys finally show the cards now (less than a month before PS3 Japan and USA launch)?

For the less fortunate that can't read Japanese: "edit: -The web browser supports Java and Flash Player (like PSP). -11 languages are available. -When you insert a music CD (authentic one) PlayStation 3 will automatically grab the info from CDDB (if you're online). -PS3 start-up music will be similar to an orchestra's tuning sound before they start playing.

"Install Other System" (install Linux?)"

And with Yellow Dog Linux going for PS3 (first release mid November), and Sun (allegedly) opensourcing Java, Cell being IBM technology, PS3 having Nvidia OpenGL card in it, PS3 having a HDD, well, why are you so sure there won't be any usable Java on PS3 (maybe not at the beginning, but I really don't see why not in not so distant future)?

However (I don't know to read Japanese) it could be that browser Java support could be just browser JavaSCRIPT support (if translators don't know the difference, which could be possible.). However, that doesn't change the fact that SOME kind of Java on PS3 could be possible, and really a nice project, when Sun opensources compilers and other stuff.

Err, only on page 4 java is contained (jap. and eng.) and it even reads Flash Javascript in western letters, so how did you come to idea it could be a real java (beside that bd-java thing).. ?

Anyway, I agree with Cas:

if there would be real java on the ps3, we'd know it. Snd even if there would be good change, we'd know it, too. IMHO, there is no hope for a real, perfomant Java port on the PS3, at east within the next 2 years.

I think you have mistaken consoles for little PCs. They're not. The first release of the console is the definitive standard for that console and its capabilities are basically determined from that point onwards. A crap Java port in 2 years time is not going to convince anyone except random nerds. I've got a PC and a Mac in the meantime and no desire to waste my time on such rubbish as an unsupported, slow, buggy, way-behind JVM on a console which brings absolutely no added benefit to me or anyone else!

I started this topic to see if there's any move on the Sun side. If my memory serves right, there was a lots of "we are talking with partners", "we are under NDA", "we will open up when time will be right" from Sun's side. OK, it's under a month to release now, a little update would be nice (especially considering a lots of missinfo, like my trust in the guy who translated the Japanese text above, and he seems to not know the difference between Java and JavaScript, sorry ).

So, for now it seems that the only Java on PS3 is the one in BluRay DVD player, and that is ME just for interactive DVD menus.

Now, as for consoles not being a little PCs, coming with predefined featureset etc., I beg to differ with this generation. All three of them have network upgradeable firmware, and plan to use it (it seems MS will enable 1080p via this mechanism sometimes in the future).

A different fight is going on this time. This new generation hardware actually deserves it. It looks like Sony is trying to capture any market possible. Look at Yellow Dog announcement :

A single-click installer enables absolutely anyone to install without instruction. Post-install, the default suite of applications presents an intuitive, self-guided means of exploring Linux without the confusion of multiple applications in the same family. An Advanced installer mode enables selection from greater than fifteen hundred packages, as is expected from a complete Linux distribution. "

Now, if that ain't PC, I don't know what is

Combine that with new and what it seems very open game download service, which will, it seems again, support even indie titles (Fl0w), seems to me that there could be a nice chance for Sun and/or OS community to bring some kind of Java to PS3. Now, it has flash, openoffice, firefox etc, but not Java? Why? The shear volume of this new platform in coming years makes it worth for someone to try a port. If not for gaming (initially), I sure wouldn't mind sub 600$ 3.2 PPC machine with 1080p output running some Java.

My current guess is that Linux on the PS3 will follow the same route as Linux on the PS2 -- the release of C/C++ development kits from Sony and third parties. A good site, if you're interested in this sort of thing for the PS2, is: http://playstation2-linux.com/coding-on-playstation2.php.

My guess (once again ) is that home-grown development on the PS3 will be much more popular, since it'll be so much easier for programmers to get started, and there'll be a much wider audience for their games.

This is a large opportunity lost to Java in my opinion.

- Andrew

BTW, Henry Fortuna's site as some interesting academic papers on teaching games on consoles, which might be of interest

My current guess is that Linux on the PS3 will follow the same route as Linux on the PS2 -- the release of C/C++ development kits from Sony and third parties. A good site, if you're interested in this sort of thing for the PS2, is: http://playstation2-linux.com/coding-on-playstation2.php.

My guess (once again ) is that home-grown development on the PS3 will be much more popular, since it'll be so much easier for programmers to get started, and there'll be a much wider audience for their games.

This is a large opportunity lost to Java in my opinion.

- Andrew

BTW, Henry Fortuna's site as some interesting academic papers on teaching games on consoles, which might be of interest

Yep, it seems that (for now) IBM & co are pushing just C/C++ compilers for Linux on Cell. I say "for now" because I really don't see how IBM plans to make Cell based servers without supporting their huge Java investment. And yes, this is a large opportunity lost to Java. However, I'm still kind of hoping that someone will realize that Sony, it seems, is loosing up a bit (they obviously did let a third party developers to release a almost full blown Linux distribution for PS3, and this time, every PS3 has a HD, no need to buy one to run something different on a console), Sun is definatelly loosing up with Java (they ARE going open source), so the question is, who will be first to step up and port the damn thing. It could be G(ame)VM, for a start (basically, that small thingy that Prince has)

He he. Won't do. Not a PPC anymore And "only" 1.66 Ghz (well, dual cores will definatelly help there, although I doubt linear). However, no double HDMI, no BluRay, "just" 4 USB ports, and most of all, no price drops ("everyone" knows that PS3 will drop like mad in 2007). Oh, yes, and no games. And SPE's, if anyone knows how to suck some power out of them. And they probably won't sell 50 mil of those by the end of the decade in peoples living rooms.

But a really really nice machine, newertheless. I would actually opt for both

The graphics caps of the Mini are a match for PS2 I suspect. Don't forget the PS2 is only filling 320x200 pixels. And the clock speed and memory in the Mini are far, far superior to the PS2. And the games are a lot cheaper. And ... it's a real computer too!! So much going for it, it surprises me that Apple haven't p1mped it as a games machine.

Ok, for now Java is second-class citizen in Playstation 3. It does exist somehow in bluray dics. But not available as an applet plugin in web browser. Adobe Flash plugin is implemented, so thats +1p for Flash programmers.

What we know so far, 3D gfx card cannot be accessed from the OtherOS side. Lets see if Sony ever opens it up because it will expand 100% indie games where Sony might not get any revenues. But a normal non-hardware accelerated doublebuffered framebuffer is available.

You know, with this whole OpenJDK thing and a complete source available OS/Java stack, independent developer game usable Java (whew-whata-mouthful) on the PS3 is starting to look possible...

Well, Java will get to the PS3 sooner or later (someone has to make newer port to PPC than 1.3.1 currently available). Sony hiding RSX from guest OSses and leaving them just 200 MB of RAM could be a bit problematic for gaming I don't know if Mesa (software OpenGL) could be adapted to use SPE's. Have seen some pretty impressive demos of Cell doing raycasting realtime, though.

The new PS3 has the Java Powered Logo on the box with all of the other logos. (My wife bought my son one. Will not open until Christmas.) I feel like that is a little misleading since it will not run Java-based applications, or am I wrong?

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