My two cents on the matter of an under- 5 yearold spending a substantial amount of time television watching -

I would encourage other activities. My child development professors (most doctorates and with 15 years of experience in their field...) have expressed major concern over this (the statistical average that many children under 5 watch 2 hours of television a day)....so much brain development occurs pre 5 years, it is crucial for them to be engaged in hands-on activities... and it has been shown that children use less of their brain watching television than when sleeping! They feel it can cause damage to be "clocked out" on such a regular basis (crucial time to use that brain...) And have expressed utter distaste/concern towards the marketing of videos to babies (i.e. Baby Einstein videos).

One of my professors has said she thinks it acceptable for children under 5 to watch television only when they are actively engaged in the matter, which usually means there needs to be an adult around talkign to them and engaging them in the material, but it sounds like from someone's previous post that a few of these shows are trying to accomplish it themselves..

--Allisun, Child Development Major at Humboldt State University and in the process of trying to start a Humboldt Sudbury School : )

Heh. What, you mean you think there aren't video games like that
already?

There's a lot more art around us every day than we're aware of. I mean,
have you heard of this Japanese video game, Katamari Damacy? It is the
ultimate New Media reflection on the capitalist/imperialist impulses of
Postmodern (contemporary) culture. It's also got a really interesting
electronic soundtrack that touches dextrously on several genres of
music, and vibrant Peter Max-inspired graphics.

Going back to what Scott was talking about, my point is that in
interpreting what qualifies as art, high art, low art, pop art,
postmodernists are VERY inclusive. And so should we be-- regarding all
of life as a work of art is not just postmodern chic, it's a good way
to remind yourself to stay on top of having a great life that you're
super engaged in.

-Tay

On 5 Dec, 2005, at 14.54, Lif Strand wrote:

> Quoted from Scott David Gray's message at 12:15 PM 12/5/2005:
>> And, really, what is the big deal if people *do* want to
>> play video games or watch TV? Is this really a worse way to
>> spend one's time than browing at a museum? Than listening to
>> music? Than enjoying any sort of art?
>
> Sometime in the future whatever video games evolve to might be
> considered a high art form, and today's video games the embryonic form
> of that art.
>
>
> ------------------------
> Lif Strand, Research Associate
> Southwest Center for Resource Analysis
> Western New Mexico University
> (505) 773-4897
> (505) 212-0108 FAX
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss-sudbury-model mailing list
> Discuss-sudbury-model_at_sudval.org
> http://www.sudval.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/discuss-sudbury-model>
>
-Tay

Hi, I am a new listmember and wanted to add something to the Piano learning conversation. My ex (we are still very good friends) is a professional keyboardist/pianist. He is one of the best in the world and gets paid for his sounds and playing. He loves his life's work. His father was a professional guitarist. His mother used to make him practice the piano when he was little. She used to have to actually tie him to the piano bench to make him practice his scales. He remembers hating to practice because he wanted to go out and play baseball with the guys. We had this conversation so many times. He is SO glad his mother made him practice. It is his life's love, he is amazing at it, but he wouldn't have had the early life career chances he did (playing in very well known bands at 17 yrs.old, etc...) unless his mother had forced him to play. He is ever grateful to her and says it often.

Now on another spin, my mother is an artist. She used to force me to paint when I was little when I wanted to go out and play I was stuck in our basement painting on Saturdays. I hated it then and I refuse to paint to this day. I am an artist by profession (I could not ignore genes and my life's work even though I tried to in my early 20's), but she made painting so onerous a task that I hated it then and I hate it now. I never learned how to do it well. When the time came to do art, I chose photography, ceramics, sketching and advertising graphic design (anything but oil painting) and have made my career ever since.

So, I guess I'm saying that I have seen forced practicing go both ways. My ex's mother says she saw his great talent and knew he must work at the piano, that his great talent needed to be expressed. My mother just wanted me to do something *she* wanted me to do. I do not have any great talent for painting, she just wanted to teach me to paint. So, now I think it might have something to do if the kid needs encouragement thru a distracting period where they might drop their piano playing due to too much peer influence, like baseball or hanging out, then I think I would encourage my child to continue practicing with a kind method of encouragement. But if my child just wasn't into the activity of playing the piano and didn't shine like the proverbial sun while playing, I think I would just let it go and allow him to not play anymore.
It might be seen by the parents as "Look, my little Johnie plays piano (or kicks the soccer ball or paints the best picture) so well. Doesn't that reflect so nicely on me and my parenting?" And I don't buy into that mode of thinking.
-Arlynn

Hi, I am a new listmember and wanted to add
something to the Piano learning conversation. My ex (we are still very good
friends) is a professional keyboardist/pianist. He is one of the best in the
world and gets paid for his sounds and playing. He loves his life's work. His
father was a professional guitarist. His mother used to make him practice the
piano when he was little. She used to have to actually tie him to the piano
bench to make him practice his scales. He remembers hating to practice because
he wanted to go out and play baseball with the guys. We had this conversation so
many times. He is SO glad his mother made him practice. It is his life's love,
he is amazing at it, but he wouldn't have had the early life career chances he
did (playing in very well known bands at 17 yrs.old, etc...) unless his mother
had forced him to play. He is ever grateful to her and says it
often.

Now on another spin, my mother is an artist. She used to
force me to paint when I was little when I wanted to go out and play I was stuck
in our basement painting on Saturdays. I hated it then and I refuse to paint to
this day. I am an artist by profession (I could not ignore genes and my life's
work even though I tried to in my early 20's), but she made painting so onerous
a task that I hated it then and I hate it now. I never learned how to do it
well. When the time came to do art, I chose photography, ceramics, sketching and
advertising graphic design (anything but oil painting) and have made my career
ever since.

So, I guess I'm saying that I have seen forced practicing
go both ways. My ex's mother says she saw his great talent and knew he must work
at the piano, that his great talent needed to be expressed. My mother just
wanted me to do something *she* wanted me to do. I do not have any great talent
for painting, she just wanted to teach me to paint. So, now I think it might
have something to do if the kid needs encouragement thru a distracting period
where they might drop their piano playing due to too much peer influence, like
baseball or hanging out, then I think I would encourage my child to continue
practicing with a kind method of encouragement. But if my child just wasn't into
the activity of playing the piano and didn't shine like the proverbial sun while
playing, I think I would just let it go and allow him to not play
anymore.

It might be seen by the parents as "Look, my little Johnie
plays piano (or kicks the soccer ball or paints the best picture) so well.
Doesn't that reflect so nicely on me and my parenting?" And I don't buy into
that mode of thinking.

I think this applies to any activity. Some parents force their kids to play
basketball or football when they hate sports were players must have violent
body contact. As you say, the difference is if you are "encouraging" a
talent or if you just want to pride yourself (or have some hidden personal
agenda).

Hi, I am a new listmember and wanted to add something to the Piano learning
conversation. My ex (we are still very good friends) is a professional
keyboardist/pianist. He is one of the best in the world and gets paid for
his sounds and playing. He loves his life's work. His father was a
professional guitarist. His mother used to make him practice the piano when
he was little. She used to have to actually tie him to the piano bench to
make him practice his scales. He remembers hating to practice because he
wanted to go out and play baseball with the guys. We had this conversation
so many times. He is SO glad his mother made him practice. It is his life's
love, he is amazing at it, but he wouldn't have had the early life career
chances he did (playing in very well known bands at 17 yrs.old, etc...)
unless his mother had forced him to play. He is ever grateful to her and
says it often.

Now on another spin, my mother is an artist. She used to force me to paint
when I was little when I wanted to go out and play I was stuck in our
basement painting on Saturdays. I hated it then and I refuse to paint to
this day. I am an artist by profession (I could not ignore genes and my
life's work even though I tried to in my early 20's), but she made painting
so onerous a task that I hated it then and I hate it now. I never learned
how to do it well. When the time came to do art, I chose photography,
ceramics, sketching and advertising graphic design (anything but oil
painting) and have made my career ever since.

So, I guess I'm saying that I have seen forced practicing go both ways. My
ex's mother says she saw his great talent and knew he must work at the
piano, that his great talent needed to be expressed. My mother just wanted
me to do something *she* wanted me to do. I do not have any great talent for
painting, she just wanted to teach me to paint. So, now I think it might
have something to do if the kid needs encouragement thru a distracting
period where they might drop their piano playing due to too much peer
influence, like baseball or hanging out, then I think I would encourage my
child to continue practicing with a kind method of encouragement. But if my
child just wasn't into the activity of playing the piano and didn't shine
like the proverbial sun while playing, I think I would just let it go and
allow him to not play anymore.

It might be seen by the parents as "Look, my little Johnie plays piano (or
kicks the soccer ball or paints the best picture) so well. Doesn't that
reflect so nicely on me and my parenting?" And I don't buy into that mode of
thinking.

style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think this applies to any =
activity.
Some parents force their kids to play basketball or football when they =
hate sports
were players must have violent body contact… As you say, the =
difference
is if you are “encouraging” a talent or if you just want to =
pride
yourself (or have some hidden personal =
agenda).

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi, I am a new listmember and wanted to add something =
to the
Piano learning conversation. My ex (we are still very good friends) is a
professional keyboardist/pianist. He is one of the best in the world and =
gets
paid for his sounds and playing. He loves his life's work. His father =
was a
professional guitarist. His mother used to make him practice the piano =
when he
was little. She used to have to actually tie him to the piano bench to =
make him
practice his scales. He remembers hating to practice because he wanted =
to go
out and play baseball with the guys. We had this conversation so many =
times. He
is SO glad his mother made him practice. It is his life's love, he is =
amazing
at it, but he wouldn't have had the early life career chances he did =
(playing
in very well known bands at 17 yrs.old, etc...) unless his mother had =
forced
him to play. He is ever grateful to her and says it =
often.

style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>

style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Now on another spin, my mother is an artist. She used =
to
force me to paint when I was little when I wanted to go out and play I =
was
stuck in our basement painting on Saturdays. I hated it then and I =
refuse to
paint to this day. I am an artist by profession (I could not ignore =
genes and
my life's work even though I tried to in my early 20's), but she made =
painting
so onerous a task that I hated it then and I hate it now. I never =
learned how
to do it well. When the time came to do art, I chose photography, =
ceramics,
sketching and advertising graphic design (anything but oil painting) and =
have
made my career ever since.

style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>

style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>So, I guess I'm saying that I have seen forced =
practicing go
both ways. My ex's mother says she saw his great talent and knew he must =
work
at the piano, that his great talent needed to be expressed. My mother =
just
wanted me to do something *she* wanted me to do. I do not have any great =
talent
for painting, she just wanted to teach me to paint. So, now I think it =
might
have something to do if the kid needs encouragement thru a distracting =
period
where they might drop their piano playing due to too much peer =
influence, like
baseball or hanging out, then I think I would encourage my child to =
continue
practicing with a kind method of encouragement. But if my child just =
wasn't
into the activity of playing the piano and didn't shine like the =
proverbial sun
while playing, I think I would just let it go and allow him to not play
anymore.

style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It might be seen by the parents as "Look, my =
little
Johnie plays piano (or kicks the soccer ball or paints the best picture) =
so
well. Doesn't that reflect so nicely on me and my parenting?" And I =
don't
buy into that mode of thinking.