The worry Richard (Mad_Scientist)is that there really is no terminology for that part of the process that currently exists as far as I am aware. I think I have 'flat beer' up on the forum atm but I think 'still beer' might be/sound better. Really open to some suggestions on this though.

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It's another way of saying 'batch size', which we know is also a completely useless term unless it's specified further (hence our VAW term that is very clear in definition).

Definitely not a stupid question! First time I saw it was from somebody posting here. It came off as if it was common knowledge, and I immediately felt as if I should know what it meant. All I could think is, "wtf?" ... once I figured out what they were talking about. Perhaps it's a term from another language, and "length" is the translation that seems to make the most sense to those who are not very well versed in the English language. Just a theory ...

Brew length, is the proper brewing term for how much beer you will be able to package from each "gyle." Wtf? asks Rick again . A gyle is the beer produced from one fermentation. (Hence parti-gyle brewing is when a single grain bill produces two or more gyles, the first gyle being stronger than any subsequent ones.)

We did use Brew Length in the early predecessor to the BIABacus, called 'The Calculator', but it's one official term that we can do without.

The Fast Answer.

"Volume into Packaging (VIP)" is the term used used instead of brew length in our "Clear Brewing Terminology (CBT)." It's simple, unambiguous, and, like many other terms used in CBT, has a shorthand version - VIP.

....

Lumpy's answer is far more enjoyable though ,
PP

Last edited by PistolPatch on 08 Mar 2016, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.

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If you think about it, a high O.G. beer won't travel as far across the table as a low O.G. beer.
Therefore; brewlength is an ancient (possibly Jurassic Period) analytical method for measuring wort density

G B
I spent lots of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I squandered
I've stopped drinking, but only when I'm asleep
I ONCE gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life

Brew length, is the proper brewing term for how much beer you will be able to package from each "gyle." Wtf? asks Rick again . A gyle is the beer produced from one fermentation. (Hence parti-gyle brewing is when a single grain bill produces two or more gyles, the first gyle being stronger than any subsequent ones.)

We did use Brew Length in the early predecessor to the BIABacus, called 'The Calculator', but it's one official term that we can do without.

The Fast Answer.

"Volume into Packaging (VIP)" is the term used used instead of brew length in our "Clear Brewing Terminology (CBT)." It's simple, unambiguous, and, like many other terms used in CBT, has a shorthand version - VIP.

flhb,
I think VIB is easy to abbreviate That VATHBIPAD...Volume After The Bag Is Pulled And Drained.
Or VAMO....Volume After Mash Out.
But, another Thing is Just Before the Boil Starts, the Expansion of the Sweet Liquor is Finished, which makes the Spreadsheet correct for Efficiency.

Why would you need to change the acronym? It would seem easy enough to just shift the definition a bit. And I guess I don't fully understand your last point, would the spreadsheet be wrong to calculate efficiency at the slightly reduced volume? Why couldn't we calculate efficiency at the lower temperature. I'm only raising the point because it is much easier to take an accurate measurement at the lower temp, what's the benefit of taking it at the higher temp (other than precedent)?

flhb wrote:Why couldn't we calculate efficiency at the lower temperature

The way I see it is;
What is your lower temperature? Someone could do a 62C mash, another 69C, another could mashout (78C). I think this was what Joshua was alluding to.

If the VIB measurement is done at start of boil, everybody will take a measurement at the same temperature, and the spreadsheet will calculate that volume correctly too.

The volume change due to temperatures between 60c-80c will probably have a small if not insignificant difference though. So if you feel more comfortable or think you will have better accuracy taking it after bag pull, I would do that.

I have a spreadsheet on another PC that calculated volumes at various temps so I can check what those differences are likely to make if interested?

There's no major theoretical reason why you can't measure it at mash-out. mally can give us more accurate theoretical numbers but as a rough guide, water (and therefore, we assume wort) swells by 2% from ambient to mash temp and then another 2% from mash to boiling point. i.e. 100 L becomes 102 L then 104 L. So, multiply your mash volume by 1.4/1.02* (you can do the calc in the VIB field of the BIABacus) and that's all the maths you need to do but...

There are some practical considerations to consider. The first major one is that it's quite common practice to pull the bag after mashing out and then leave it to drain further as the wort is brought to the boil. On an average brew (around 19 L VIP of 5% ABV beer), that practice will give you a few more litres into the boil. Some brewers doing a high gravity brew in a small kettle may make a decision to sparge and, others, may be topping up their kettle before the boil.

If you do take your volume reading at mash-out, make the volume adjustment, and then, before the boil, add any runnings you collected or water you added. If you take your volume at the beginning of the boil, when the wort starts to boil, turn the flame-off and then take your reading, as best as you can.

So, any 'kettle' efficiency reading can be taken, at any point, as long as the volume and gravity measurements are taken at the same time, the volume is temp corrected* and, that time is after all runnings from the mash have been lautered (drained).

Remember that the purpose of this first check on efficiency is only to act as a "reverse double-check"; you never act on that first check. In other words, if your ambient wort efficiency check came out low (and you double-checked that), and your into kettle efficiency reading was also low, you will know with a good degree of certainty that something went wrong on that brew. If you only make one check, your degree of certainty goes down massively.

All these things get less important once you've done several brews and know that there are no fundamental errors occurring in your brewing process. In the beginning though, the extra checks really help to nail a problem fast.

PP

* For the actual efficiency calcs, all volumes are actually temperature corrected back to ambient but The BIABacus does this automatically. In other words, if you take a VIB of VFO reading, you type in what you actually measured because the BIABacus assumes you took those measurements at boiling point.

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