Comments on: Should public schools be responsible for private school references?http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/
Katy Murphy's blog on Oakland schoolsTue, 02 Dec 2014 18:10:00 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1By: Jim Mordecaihttp://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15171
Jim MordecaiFri, 26 Oct 2007 16:24:53 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15171I believe the goal of public education is an open question and will not concede that the goal is to raise test scores on a group test. For my money Jefferson’s priority of an educated citizenry that makes democracy work should be goal number one.

The idea of test driven goal setting makes no sense to me. By definition a goal of everyone above average is a guarantee of 50% failure.

It is a misuse of testing and group statistics to employ group testing as the basis of goal setting.

]]>By: Jim Mordecaihttp://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15170
Jim MordecaiFri, 26 Oct 2007 07:19:35 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15170The idea of proficiency is an arbitrary cut score defined by each State under No Child Left Behind. Steve says that 35% of the students scoring on a test is defined as proficient and then everyone is being supported in achieving that score. But, I would argue that this is teaching to the test; not a good idea.

The next bad idea is grade level. What does that mean? Is it the average score of students in reading and math. What about the student that is above average in vocabulary and below average in comprehension but total score is at grade level.

Students are not test scores. They grow and they regress. But, whatever they do it is the teachers job to be there thru ups and downs and provide support and encouragement.

]]>By: Steve Weinberghttp://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15169
Steve WeinbergFri, 26 Oct 2007 06:18:51 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15169Mr. Jones, you make your points very forcefully, and I don’t disagree with many of them. I noticed from an earlier posting that you were the SSC chair of Sherman Elementary last year. Since the district seems headed for a new round of closure decisions, many blog readers might be interested in your thoughts about how the process went at Sherman last year.
And please drop by Frick sometime and let me show you around. We need the support of all involved community members, even if they decide to send their children elsewhere to attend school.
]]>By: James Jones, Jr., Parent, etc.http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15168
James Jones, Jr., Parent, etc.Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:32:34 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15168Steve said: “Testing Proficient is not a grade level requirement.”

JJ: Listen, we’re only talking about Test scores because you brought it up, remember: “Frick, where I work, has one of the greatest increases in test scores of any middle school in the county over the seven years of state testing “JJ cont’d: You were proud then, but now you’re saying the test scores don’t matter. Which is it? you can’t have it both ways.

The facts stand: Out of 194 Frick 8th graders, only “22″ met the State standard for English, and only “5″ of 135 met the standard for General math…. And meeting the state standard only required a score of 58% or higher. (58% is considered “Proficient”)..

YOU SAID: Testing Proficient does not even mean that a student knows what some committee decided that a student at that grade level should know.

JJ:And testing below PROFICIENT does? Please explain this to me. I would think, the higher a child scores, the more likely it is that the child understands the material—no? How would you recommend the State of California monitor the progress of the 6 million (or so) children in public schools?

YOU SAID: When the state began their testing program they decided that at whatever 35% of the students could score would be Proficient. Whatever 65% of students could do would be called Basic. It is common misconception to confuse Proficiency with grade level, but it is a misconception.

JJ:According to the CA’s Education Code:

“The five performance levels designated for reporting CST results are advanced, proficient, basic, below basic, and far below basic. The state target is for all students to score at the proficient or advanced level. “

JJ cont’d: And besides that, it’s no coincidence that the best prepared kids do the best on the test. Some may not, but we’re not worried about good students that do bad on tests; we’re worried about not-so-good students doing bad on tests. The best schools have the highest test scores, and for good reasons. I’m sure that one of those reasons is, they take the test and it’s preparation seriously. There are too many important decisions that are based on these test scores; including decisions regarding school closures. These tests also have an effect on a students self-esteem. You can argue the Benchmark and the process all you want, but right now this is the standard that we need to meet or EXCEED (period).

]]>By: Carolinehttp://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15166
CarolineThu, 25 Oct 2007 17:02:32 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15166Private K-12 school in relation to public K-12 school is not comparable to private colleges/universities vs. public college/universities (even using “vs.” doesn’t make sense in relation to higher education).

There are a whole lot of reasons that’s the case. Others can probably explain this much better than I can.

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Skyline TeacherThu, 25 Oct 2007 16:51:37 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15160Steve’s claims for the teachers at some OUSD middle schools may be true — but to me it is an indictment of how little teachers can really accomplish, at least in the current system.

Should I not think it odd that almost none of my tenth graders could define the word “liberty” after a decade of schooling in OUSD? Are my expectations too high?

]]>By: Steve Weinberghttp://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15167
Steve WeinbergThu, 25 Oct 2007 05:26:19 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15167Testing Proficient is not a grade level requirement. If it were, more than 60% of students in California at every grade level would be failing. Testing Proficient does not even mean that a student knows what some committee decided that a student at that grade level should know. When the state began their testing program they decided that at whatever 35% of the students could score would be Proficient. Whatever 65% of students could do would be called Basic. It is common misconception to confuse Proficiency with grade level, but it is a misconception.
]]>By: James Jones, Jr., Parent, etc.http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15165
James Jones, Jr., Parent, etc.Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:33:09 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15165CORRECTION… to http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-854

“These numbers say: last year, their were no more than 16 (not 29) eighth-grade students that met grade-level requirements for each subject. that leaves 178 (not 165) students that did not meet all requirements.

]]>By: Skyline Teacherhttp://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2007/10/19/should-public-school-teachers-be-responsible-for-private-school-recs/comment-page-1/#comment-15164
Skyline TeacherWed, 24 Oct 2007 23:05:19 +0000http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=266#comment-15164I love (read: hate) how where we send our children to learn is so politicized. I myself embraced this wholeheartedly as a kid: I hated private school and wouldn’t allow myself to be moved to one even when I was clinically depressed in a dangerous middle school.

My kids are in public school. But if I and their mother decide that’s no longer the best thing, I won’t let my support of public schools in general change my mind. As Mr. Jones says, these are not hypothetical children.

Would I send my kids to the school I teach at? It would depend on what they grow up to be like. But there are days I feel like calling some kids’ parents and saying why is your child in my class? She can actually READ and WRITE and THINK CRITICALLY. Get her somewhere more stimulating!

JJ: That’s probably all it is, but in the process they inadvertently showed us their cards… some things are really better left unsaid.. I’m sure there’s nobody at Thornhill twisting their mustache and filling the halls with evil laughter; the principal probably got tired of dealing with parents that had been turned down by their child’s teacher.