Political, Social, and Religious Ravings from a Texas Conservative

The Great Divorce – Chapter 04 – Pride

“There are going to be affecting scenes. Perhaps it would not be right to look on.”

The Substance of Heaven
In the fourth chapter, the ghosts are confronted by the natives of Heaven. This applies to both living and non-living things: in Heaven, even the grass and birds are of a substance so much more solid than the ghosts of Hell that they barely notice them. The point is: The ghosts are not made for Heaven. They’re not real enough, yet. But, there is opportunity to transform.

Salvation After the Grave
In this sense, the Great Divorce is a projection of the core Christian dilemma into the afterlife. Where the mortal is on Earth with the opportunity to join the Kingdom of Heaven, which Jesus says is among us (or within us, depending on translation), in Lewis’ story, this opportunity to join the Kingdom remains even after death. This is more akin to a Buddhist or Muslim idea of the afterlife than the traditional judgment-at-death view of most Christian writers. In Lewis’ fantasy, the afterlife is not a place of instant and eternal reward or damnation, but a place where there is still a chance to make progress toward the divine, if you are willing to change. (Perhaps it is even possible to go the other way, but it seems unlikely, and Lewis never hints at this.)

Confrontation
The core confrontation in this chapter is between the Big Ghost and Len, a former employee who murdered their mutual friend, Jack. Len tells the Big Ghost that indeed, Jack is here in Heaven, too, and that he can take the Big Ghost to see him if he likes. But of course, he does not like this, because it is too humbling. The Big Ghost was not a murderer in life, and refuses to be mentored by the spirit of an underling who murdered his friend, even though this spot of pride will deny him entry to paradise.

The Big Ghost is only interested in what he’s earned – a noble-sounding trait on Earth that causes problems in Heaven. (In truth, the Big Ghost wasn’t nearly as noble as he thought himself, as Len points out. Further, even the brightest and hardest working of us have a support network to which we pay little notice. Nothing is ever accomplished alone.)

Private Affairs
The Big Ghost is further insulted when Len implies he didn’t take good care of his own family, which he considers a private affair. But in Heaven, Len tells him, “there are no private affairs.”

This is something I find to be an interesting conundrum, because it is a rather un-American idea of paradise. Lewis’ Heaven is, frankly, communist – or if that’s too shocking, we can say, communal. There are no individual “rights.” There is no “privacy.” There is no pursuit of self-interest or self-improvement – in fact, that idea is impossible there.

Monarchy in Heaven
Normally this Biblical/Heavenly language is shaped in monarchy, but even serfs under kings have free time to do whatever they like. Len implies this is not the case here in Heaven. There is work, but it’s not needed. There is progress towards God (walking towards the mountains), but it’s not in support of one king or people versus another. Really, the whole monarchy thing is inaccurate here, because there is only one people, and only one Lord, and bliss through service and worship – not progress towards a goal. Not improvement, as we understand it. Heaven is so unlike the competitions of life which we’re all used to that it’s unsettling for the Big Ghost, as well it might be for even the “best” of us.

Communal Heaven
This whole idea parallels an ongoing debate in my own mind, connected to politics. It would seem the more Heavenly thing to do, for example, would be to offer free health care to all, paid for by all (but, of course, paid for more by those able to pay more). This would be no more unfair to the rich than paying for our sins is unfair to Christ. Who else could pay? No one. But that is a socialist idea, and in the current dialogue, a slippery slope towards resurrecting 1930s Germany.

So, what to do with Lewis’ communal, egalitarian idea of Heaven? I’ll let Lynn take that on, in Chapter 5, where the land is further explored. 🙂

8 Responses

Hey, nice work on the subtitles. You really are a bullet-point kinda guy, aren’t you? 🙂

Also, does your book have chapter titles, like “Pride,” or is that your input? Mine just has chapter numbers… but I must admit to losing my copy during the move. I’ve actually been reading a Kindle version, from my phone/laptop (I don’t have a Kindle yet, but I’ll probably get one this year). Even reading it on the phone hasn’t been too bad, since it has such short chapters.

>> Hey, nice work on the subtitles. You really are a bullet-point kinda guy, aren’t you?

You’ve known me long enough to know how extreme Type A I am. Everything in it’s proper place with a proper label!

>> Also, does your book have chapter titles, like “Pride,” or is that your input?

No, that’s my input.

>> I must admit to losing my copy during the move. I’ve actually been reading a Kindle version.

You know I’ve always kind of considered books I’ve read trophies. Plus I like the feel of a newspaper in my hand. And reading from a glare filled screen is torture on my eyes and brain. I know the kindle is supposed to be different… hopefully the iPad too.

I’ve was given an iPad from work this year; but haven’t played with it much… yet. I figured I’d see how I liked it as a book reader; and then maybe even subscribe to a Newspaper or two. I’d probably start with the Wall Street Journal.

I would really hate for technology to get me to “go green”.

Now that I’ve moved into a much smaller house (or am planning to soon), I’m rethinking my material possessions thing. My goal is to rid myself of at least 1/3 (by volume) of everything I own. My comic book collection by itself should get me half way to my goal.

>> Even reading it on the phone hasn’t been too bad, since it has such short chapters.

>You know I’ve always kind of considered books I’ve read trophies. Plus I like the feel of a newspaper in my hand.

I agree. I had a lot of books ruined in a flood (leaky roof), and some of them I just can’t find anymore. I’m hoping I can replace some, electronically.

>I’d probably start with the Wall Street Journal. I would really hate for technology to get me to “go green”.

Oh, like so many things, it’s not all bad. Some of it’s silly. I’ve been thinking of a Chinese proverb I read recently: “Don’t try to teach the children your ways; they were born in a different time.” I think we can teach the next generation values, and for some of them, being green is their interpretation of the value we would have called “taking care of your stuff.” They’ve just applied it to the whole world, and in some cases, gone overboard with it.

It’ll be interesting to see if that changes when we colonize another planet. Will we feel as protective of Mars? Or will we be like the guys who shot buffalo from moving trains, just for fun, because they thought it’d never run out?

The Ghosts in the Great Divorce
>> So, what to do with Lewis’ communal, egalitarian idea of Heaven? I’ll let Lynn take that on, in Chapter 5

Oh, No… I think Lynn can take that on well before Chapter 5. 🙂

Chapter 4 is indeed where we get our first look and lesson from a ghost and his/her designated (solid) spirit from Heaven. We have many more to go as the book continues; but I get ahead of myself. These ghosts will represent an aspect of society or humanity. They will make the common mistakes of those they represent. And they will be given the reasons and opportunities to shed themselves of their baggage. How many succeed remains to be seen.

>> The ghosts are not made for Heaven. They’re not real enough, yet. But, there is opportunity to transform.

I do like this aspect of Lewis’ afterlife. It kind of flies in the face of those who say the afterlife is purely spiritual. We are, after all, promised new bodies in the next world; and Lewis has taken this to heart. You would have to think that the bodies we receive are much better than what we have here on earth. You would have to think that they are… well, heavenly… and in Lewis’ imagination, they are.

The Concept of Redemption After Death
>> in Lewis’ story, this opportunity to join the Kingdom remains even after death.

Yeah, I have to admit it… I’ve got a big problem with repentance/salvation after death. Yes, I know there are arguments about praying for the dead, and I know there are arguments about where Jesus went and what he did while in the grave; but based on what I’ve studied; I think you’ve got a first, second, third, fourth,… and fiftieth chance… but only while you draw breath. When you die… your decision has been made.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Here’s one of those blunt moments so I’ll ask forgiveness from my Catholic brothers and sisters in advance… Even the Catholic Church invented purgatory in order to extort money out of those who could afford it. “Yeah, your was a disreputable smarmy bastard, and no one doubt he’s headed straight for the fiery furnace; BUT, we might, just might be able to get him a seat upgrade to 500 years in purgatory for a quarter of your inheritance!”

As with many of the things we Christians debate, this issue is one of those where getting the answer right is not essential to your salvation (unless your planning on this “second chance” and thus squandering the ones during your life); in which case you’re just a fool!

One last point. Me disagreeing with one of the premises of this book does not undermine its insight and value. The predicaments these ghosts find themselves in are every bit as relevant to me (and humanity) as we struggle to shed ourselves of that which will separate us from God. The insight can be invaluable and even lifesaving.

>> Perhaps it is even possible to go the other way, but it seems unlikely, and Lewis never hints at this.

No, it’s not addressed in the book itself, but there is an example of it happening in the Bible by a multitude of angels; led by one in particular.

Of course, that could also bring up the earthly debate on “once saved, always saved” while still on this Earth. I’ll only say that I believe grace is a gift that you can accept or deny. It’s also a gift (like any gift) you can accept and toss away… it’s part of that free will thing again.

The Ghost of Pride
Back to the confrontation between the Big Ghost and the Spirit (Len), I think this Ghost represents our pride and its different aspects.

Superiority: We Christians like to sooth our conscious by saying something like “I may be a sinner but at least I’m not as bad as him/her”; which is like saying my pig isn’t as dirty. The Big Ghost cannot believe HE was sent to the grey city and LEN, of all people wasn’t; and even worse LEN made it to the Pearly Gates and has now been sent to fetch him. It’s an insult! “Personally,” said the Big Ghost with an emphasis which contradicted the ordinary meaning of the word, “personally, I’d have thought you and I ought to be the other way round. That’s my personal opinion.”

Service: We loath to serve or take orders from someone who is beneath us, socially, by age, by intelligence, by experience, AND by who has the cleaner pig. “I haven’t got my rights. I always done my best and I never done nothing wrong. And what I don’t see is why I should be put below a bloody murderer like you.”

Now the Bible does state that there will be ranks and levels of responsibilities in Heaven. I believe that is what Jesus was stating when he told the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:12-28). Though perhaps this parable applies to both Heaven and Earth?

Jesus also gave us the ultimate lesson in service by example. He came down, humbled himself, walked on Earth, served us, washed our feet, and died on a cross between two thieves.

Charity: The next aspect of pride to be addressed is charity. As we reach adulthood taking care of ourselves and our family becomes a point of pride. Needing or accepting help is an attack on our self-reliance. Well, that concept doesn’t work well in the spiritual world; because all our hard work isn’t going to get the job done. Accepting charity is the only way. The Big Ghost says “I only want my rights. I’m not asking for anybody’s bleeding charity.” “Then do. At once. Ask for the Bleeding Charity. Everything is here for the asking and nothing can be bought.”

I love this exchange where the Big Ghost uses the British swear word “bleeding” and the Spirit immediately turns it around to refer to the Blood of Christ, charitably given for the remission of our sins.

Fairness: As I write this about pride, it seems many aspects have a flip side. The flip-side of charity is fairness. I may insist that I don’t want what’s not mine… but I damn sure want everything that is… everything that I’ve worked for… and no less. The Big Ghost seems obsessed with this concept and constantly thinks he is being slighted. “Who’s going on? I’m not arguing. I’m just telling you the sort of chap I was, see? I’m asking for nothing but my rights. You may think you can put me down because you’re dressed up like that (which you weren’t when you worked under me) and I’m only a poor man. But I got to have my rights same as you, see?”

I love the spirits answer in that like himself, the Big Ghost will NEVER get his rights if he goes to Heaven. He should throw his rights aside and take something far better.

Life isn’t fair! Neither is Heaven! Thank God!

Inferiority: Here is another flip-side in pride. Our pride tells us we are superior to some; but the logic behind that also tells us we are inferior to others; and we resent it. This is the conclusion the Big Ghosts uses to punish Heaven. If these self-righteous snobs in Heaven have the gall to rub it in his face and send Len to fetch him then he’ll have none of it. “It’s all a clique, all a bloody clique. Tell them I’m not coming, see? I’d rather be damned than go along with you. (Lynn’s Note: This is interesting in that the Big Ghost KNOWS he has been damned to Hell) … If they’re too fine to have me without you, I’ll go home.” And he does! He chooses Hell over Heaven! His will be done!

>> But in Heaven, Len tells him, “There are no private affairs.”
I love that old hymn “Father Along” (usually sung as a comforting song at funerals); which basically tells us that there are many things we cannot hope to know or understand while on Earth. So don’t dwell on those things, concentrate on the important stuff knowing we’ll understand all in the next world.

In one way it’s scary that all our dirty laundry will be exposed; but a relief that we’ll all be focusing on more important things to care.

>> So, what to do with Lewis’ communal, egalitarian idea of Heaven?

There may be communal aspects to Lewis’ Heaven, and he may be right. But communism and the ideas therein are in no way Christian. I can see where some people may think so based on verses like:

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to give unto Caesar enough money to look after orphans and widows in their distress after he has used most but not all of the money collected to pay a living wage to those he has chosen to administer and distribute such aid.

and

Matthew 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever good you forced others to do through the power of the majority and you did this good for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

OK, OK… those verses don’t really say those things. The point is Jesus told US to take care of the poor, the sick, and the downtrodden. He didn’t tell us to get Caesar to do it for us. He didn’t tell us to forcibly conscript others to share the pain or increase the help. This is a responsibility of the Church (Christians). Jesus probably didn’t tell us to do it any other way, because it won’t work any other way.

OK… A thousand pardons… I’m going to get political for just this one paragraph! OK… deep breath… here it goes…

Rick… RICK! Communism/Socialism is a fantasy! Just like unicorns, fairies, big foot, and still living Elvis’ (thank you very much)! Unfortunately it’s worse than all of those things because when someone takes it seriously and it’s allowed to flourish it leads to only one thing, totalitarianism. This has been proven throughout history! Communism is an impossibility precisely because of the nature of man and the man-made institution of government. And everything our government does in that model (however well intentioned) is a disaster. Welfare, feeding the poor, educating the children (to name a few)… exactly what percentage of the money gets to the root problem once the unions and bureaucrats take their cuts. And it gets even worse; eventually the government process is so inept, that it feeds and grows the problem rather than helping those who need it.

OK… I’m done… Now… that being said, I suspect all that doesn’t apply to Heaven, God, or men redeemed by God BECAUSE in that state and in His presence I don’t think we will be subject to the worldly nature of man as we are now.

Perhaps the creed of Heaven is “To each according to His Love. From each according to His Love.”

>Me disagreeing with one of the premises of this book does not undermine its insight and value. The predicaments these ghosts find themselves in are every bit as relevant to me (and humanity) as we struggle to shed ourselves of that which will separate us from God. The insight can be invaluable and even lifesaving.

Agreed. It’s a thought-provoking story, not a prophetic one.

>Communism is an impossibility precisely because of the nature of man and the man-made institution of government.

And yet the early church believed in it.

“All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.”
(Acts 2:44-45)

Perhaps this passage inspired Marx, and he simply applied it to the State instead of the body of Christ? It’s possible, but I don’t know. I never studied Engels or Marx seriously, the way I did with the Greeks and Romans.

Now we could argue, “This is a religious group following an ideal, not a political group following a government.” But I think that’s splitting hairs. Peter was clearly the ring-leader after Judas (who had been the money-keeper) killed himself; when Peter confronted two followers who were dishonest in their donations (Acts 4), they *fell dead*.

That, to me, reads like a statement of political coersion. “You will support the commune, or God will smite you,” is hardly different than “you will support the State, or the secret police will get you.” It bothers me, frankly.

But, I do agree that Communism doesn’t work. It clearly didn’t even work for the Disciples, at least not for long. It’s our nature — or at least, the nature of most of us — to be selfish. A system that demands otherwise isn’t going to work.

>Perhaps the creed of Heaven is “To each according to His Love. From each according to His Love.”

I like that. I’d like to see it on Earth, but I’m a pretty rusty mirror, when it comes to reflecting his love. I can’t expect my fellow humans to be much better.

I don’t think the early church believed in it (Communism) as much as they believed in safety in numbers; kind of a hang together or we will surely hang separately mentality. Nowhere does Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc. advocate pooling money for the good of the community of Christians as a tenant of the faith.

Yes they grouped together and even pooled resources/money; but this is simply history concerning survival; not an endorsement of communal Christian living; and certainly not an endorsement for a similar secular arrangement.

Jesus even said there will be classes in Heaven. People will have different amounts of reward, mostly based on works here on earth.

The Rich Young Ruler who approaches Jesus in Mark 10:17-31 is not commanded to sell everything he has and distribute it to the commune; he is to simply give it to the poor; then to pick up his cross and follow Jesus. We obtain salvation through following (accepting) Jesus and we lay up rewards by our works through that faith.

So, what it comes down to is; I just don’t see the Communism connection with early Christians (or the gospel); no more so than when our founding fathers ended the Declaration of Independence with “And for the support of this declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor.”

>> I never studied Engels or Marx seriously, the way I did with the Greeks and Romans.

I can’t say that I have either, other than having read the Communist Manifesto (actually recently). And I have to say, a more vile and evil document I have never seen before.

>Yes they grouped together and even pooled resources/money; but this is simply history concerning survival; not an endorsement of communal Christian living; and certainly not an endorsement for a similar secular arrangement.

Ultimately, all social arrangements (governments of any kind) are about survival. But I agree, Christianity does not promote communism or even communal living — this is just a passage I find curious.

If anything, Jesus seemed indifferent to that sort of thing — and, just as an interesting aside, so was Buddha. I read a story where he was approached by a soldier, and rather than telling him to become a pacifist, he just told him to be a good soldier, not to extort money from the poor. And, from a practical standpoint, that’s part of why the faiths survived — they didn’t challenge the state’s authority (for the most part).

But, then they became the official religions of the states, and did some pretty horrible stuff… but that’s usually the states using the faiths for their own ends, not the faiths themselves.

>I can’t say that I have either, other than having read the Communist Manifesto (actually recently). And I have to say, a more vile and evil document I have never seen before.

OK, I just started reading it.

It’s interesting, how it starts out in Ch 1 as rather romantic… the idea that the modern age has reduced honored professionals into wage slaves, and even the family structure into mere money relations. Nations have lost identity. Guilds have been absorbed by ubiquitous sweatshops. Small town crafts have been replaced by giant city industries.

Then Ch 2 proposes a solution:

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
etc.