Any more input here would be much appreciated. Does anyone have experience with this material?

I know a number of other plants containing iboga alkaloids exist (star anise,etc) but in much smaller quantities and presumably containing unwanted nasties. It would be nice to explore some options with other materials, are there any practical and safe methods for doing an effective extract on some of the more obscure varieties containing alkaloids?

Since I have no T. iboga with which to experiment, I am planning on making a mixed alkaloid extract of Voacanga africana root bark. There are some questions I am hoping can be answered by the collective experience of this Forum. Since the major alkaloid, voacangine, is very similar to ibogaine, it is likely that the results obtained will be similar to those of T. iboga.

1) Does anyone have any experience or information re: the fumarate salt of voacangine (or ibogaine)? I am planning on extracting the Voacanga alkaloids with acetone and precipitating the fumarate salts by adding a solution of fumaric acid dissolved in acetone. This method has been used with success with DMT, and I am hoping that it works as well with voacangine/ibogaine.

2) Has anyone used either voacangine fumarate or ibogaine fumarate? If so, were the subjective effects (pharmacodynamics) similar to other salts (e.g. hydrochloride or acetate) or the freebase?

3) I have yet to find any information on the use of a V. africana root bark extract on the web, most experiences reported are for the seeds. Any information will be appreciated.

After making the effort to obtain a V. africana extract, I am considering a bioassay. Since it will be helpful in documenting the procedure and effects if I survive the experiment , I will start out with a low dose. (The LD50 (i.v.) in mice is 54 mg/kg, somewhat higher than ibogaine at 42 mg/kg.)

4) What would constitute a threshold dose of voacangine?

5) Since I do not expect an answer to the above question, what is a threshold dose of ibogaine HCl?

If the extraction procedure is effective, it has several benefits: Quick, simple, no extremely toxic chems, relatively safe (acetone is flammable, but no heat will be used), and the result should be very pure. The only downside is that fumaric acid is not widely available, though it can be purchased for low cost over the web.

I will be cross-posting this to the mindvox list in hopes that its wider audience contains someone with answers to my questions. If this experiment works, I will be expecting donations of T. iboga root bark with which to continue this vital, groundbreaking research (har har yeah yeah I know: in my dreams. ).

BTW Igor says "Hi" -- I might just let him be the first to experience voacangine fumarate (if he begs sincerely and long enough).

Well...that's really jumping in with both feet my friend. I don't know what to make of it quite yet, but I have always been leery of V.africana - this is probably due mainly to ignorance of how best to draw the useful alks out and have something to safely consume...wanted to respond to this post even though I have no answers for you yet. You've given me much to think about, be careful dude, please, and keep us up to date!

Not to worry, it appears that Voacanga has some nasty side-effects at large doses, which include headache, stomach distress and lethargy lasting days afterward, from both seeds and root bark.

Since I just happened to have 32 gms of root bark from a trusted herbal supplier on hand, I figured that it would be useful to attempt an extraction process that would probably work for T. iboga as well.

I was contemplating a threshold dose just to verify the nature of the result. No large doses contemplated!

Should a significant yield be obtained, a conversion might be in order, but that is totally up in the air for the time being. Though obtaining clean looking crystals and a tight melt point range similar to ibogaine would be good indicators of success, I would be very wary (vewy wawy?) of injesting the results without further tests re: substance ID and purity.

Another possibility would be isolating voacangine or other alks from the mixed alkaloid result in hopes that the other alks are the ones causing the bad side-effects. This path would entail a commitment that I do not think I am able to make at this time in addition to chemistry requiring chems and equipment that I do not posess.

If I can successfully apply the fumarate tek used by others on Mimosa to Voacanga, that would be good enough for now.

~eon

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fallout330

That would be a very interesting, but undoubtedly complicated attempt, Eon. I've always been interested in the conversion of Voacangine to Ibogaine. I know I would be very interested to hear back on any results you main attain.

I'm happy to hold dear some freaky deaky chemtek folk. Yup YOU.I never need to try V. Af, but if you come to hang out at mi casa, let's see what kind of interesting conversations we can get into. I'm still a baby to chemisrty, and I attempt to take in all that is conveyed.

Nganga Nobunoni

Voacanga alkaloids are stimulating' and you would no wish to take a large dose' ie over 60mg alks' it is extremely uncomfortable on the body' causing discomfort in the chest and liver/stomach area'Adaptegenic with Iboga alks' but extremely uncomfortable on it's ownLarge doese of Voacangine are used in poison darts for to kill monkeys and birds'

Persoanl experience'

V.A. is nasty stuff' it has no visuals' is psycho-active' stimulating' if you take too much you shall be lethargic' sick' strange body pains' severe chest pain' stomach cramps for 3-4 days' with a profound inability to sleep'

Advice' no worth extracting' just mix the powdered bark with Iboga' it actualy makes the Iboga alks secondary bind more efficiently to opiate receptors'Practicaly useless on it's own' unless took for the specific effect of stimulation'

Out of all of these moles' Voacangine is the most uncomfortable and in my opinion a complete waste of time'

Tabernanthine is way better and also visual' very similiar to Ibogaine' Ibogaline' Ibogamine'

Be very careful'

Voacanga Africana is traditionaly used as a stimulant and also to give a kick to Iboga!

Nganga Nobunoni

"A dense snowstorm of huge white crystals appeared when I added the fumaric acid solution" was what I hoped to be writing.

Sadly, that is not the case.

Could be the starting material. Could be my amateurish technique.

Am re-extracting with vinegar and will put everything in one pot in hopes that there is something in there. More later... ~e

Hehehe' big smiles'

Chemistry' use acetic acid solution or pure methanol'

Acetone = evaporated acetone extract gives an unstable oil that is almost impossible to crystalise out of acetone with an acid or a base' there is also the unanswerd question of acetone extracts worked with bases making SCHIFF base molecules'

It is possible to acid salt the molecules whilst in the acetone' but a loss is noticed every time' and a mass of totaly insoluble matter falls out of the solution along with the required molecules'Washing it again and filtering yeilds some fine residue' but of where are all the molecules gone from 100 grams of woods that you eat 5 grams of an nearly fall over' see yourself smiling back at yourself through the veil' white birds flying everywhere'

Keep things simple'

Methanol attracts less oxygen than ethanol and all these moles are soluble in warm methanol'

Bliss!

Nobu +

Question' is this an open or private forum ?

Becasue I no talk chemistry to the world' Inform me of the answer to this question as soon as!

Well, I am a registered member, but I can see your post fine. Perhaps asking Calaquendi to form a private forum here for discussing the chemistry of ibogaine, would be a good addition, and only certain members in good standing in this community would be allowed.

I'll try and catch him when I can and discuss it with him. Then, for very important chemistry or teks to be posted for the public, we could make them posted as anonymous, or just keep them private due to each users request. This may allow this forum to grow well, and draw in a bigger crowd for iboga help, but still provide a more private area for those of us with a bit more experience who can perfect the knowledge of these things among ourselves before sharing it with the rest of the world.

Just an idea, but I'd like to hear others opinions on the matter. Maybe start a new thread? Feel free to move this as needed, mods!

GD

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GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Since I have no T. iboga with which to experiment, I am planning on making a mixed alkaloid extract of Voacanga africana root bark. There are some questions I am hoping can be answered by the collective experience of this Forum. Since the major alkaloid, voacangine, is very similar to ibogaine, it is likely that the results obtained will be similar to those of T. iboga.

1) Does anyone have any experience or information re: the fumarate salt of voacangine (or ibogaine)? I am planning on extracting the Voacanga alkaloids with acetone and precipitating the fumarate salts by adding a solution of fumaric acid dissolved in acetone. This method has been used with success with DMT, and I am hoping that it works as well with voacangine/ibogaine.

2) Has anyone used either voacangine fumarate or ibogaine fumarate? If so, were the subjective effects (pharmacodynamics) similar to other salts (e.g. hydrochloride or acetate) or the freebase?

3) I have yet to find any information on the use of a V. africana root bark extract on the web, most experiences reported are for the seeds. Any information will be appreciated.

After making the effort to obtain a V. africana extract, I am considering a bioassay. Since it will be helpful in documenting the procedure and effects if I survive the experiment , I will start out with a low dose. (The LD50 (i.v.) in mice is 54 mg/kg, somewhat higher than ibogaine at 42 mg/kg.)

4) What would constitute a threshold dose of voacangine?

5) Since I do not expect an answer to the above question, what is a threshold dose of ibogaine HCl?

If the extraction procedure is effective, it has several benefits: Quick, simple, no extremely toxic chems, relatively safe (acetone is flammable, but no heat will be used), and the result should be very pure. The only downside is that fumaric acid is not widely available, though it can be purchased for low cost over the web.

I will be cross-posting this to the mindvox list in hopes that its wider audience contains someone with answers to my questions. If this experiment works, I will be expecting donations of T. iboga root bark with which to continue this vital, groundbreaking research (har har yeah yeah I know: in my dreams. ).

BTW Igor says "Hi" -- I might just let him be the first to experience voacangine fumarate (if he begs sincerely and long enough).

Yer Pal, Eon

I haven't played around with voacanga extract other than some that was extracted for me by one of the guys at ethnogarden 6 years or so ago. However, I have extracted freebase ibogaine and can make a very pure total alkaloid extract.

I can take the iboga bark and purify it to a very pure TA, or even take it further to 98% pure ibogaine HCl. I have spoken extensively with Chris Jenks, the guy who posted how to extract and purify the ibogaine HCl from the bark, and have posted a much simpler step by step extraction in another thread, here: http://eboka.pkeffect.com/index.php?topic=7.msg534#msg534

If this is of any interest, let me know, and I can try and make any unclear parts easier to understand, if anyone needs any help. Sorry if this strays off topic a bit, but I figured since you were working with voacangine as a possible route to ibogaine or something, then this might be somewhat relevant in how the iboga alkaloids react.

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GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."