What do you think about having a tbs or so of coconut oil whilst stretching out fast to 40 hrs? This may help keep the fast going if you are used to doing only 16-20 hr fasts. Do you think it would help at all?

What do you think about having a tbs or so of coconut oil whilst stretching out fast to 40 hrs? This may help keep the fast going if you are used to doing only 16-20 hr fasts. Do you think it would help at all?

If you need a little bit of nutritional support during the extended fast, it is always best to go to a good source of fats as the body does not differentiate between exogenous and endogenous FFAs. I tend to like heavy cream ( 35% milk fat ) in my coffee. If you don't drink coffee, or prefer coconut oil in your coffee, or plain for that matter, that is an excellent way to help you maintain the fast.

great thread pklopp!! Someone else asked you if you believe that this type of fasting can break thru a weight loss plateau. I have made great progress and have really leaned out. I would like to lose another 5-7 lbs. of fat. Could this be the way? Thanks again for this excellent thread.

I might be biased, but I think fasting is an excellent way to break through a fat loss plateau.

You have to be very careful with language because to define something is to limit it. That is, the linguistic framework we build around something restricts our ability to think about it. A perfect example of this is the notion of "antagonistic" hormones. Antagonism, for most of us, suggests that these hormones are at cross purposes with each other. But that is not what we mean at all. Rather, what we are trying to say is that, in general, when we sample cortisol and GH in an individual, we observe that they are inversely correlated, so when levels of one are high, the levels of the other are low. But this is a much weaker statement than "antagonism", because it allows for the existence of specific circumstances when we may observe high concentrations of both, like say, during prolonged energy deprivation.

When the body detects that there is an energy shortfall, it will do several things:

It will attempt to reduce the amount of energy it discretionarily expends, which will necessarily impact thyroid hormones, and ultimately, thermogenesis, which is quite expensive in terms of energy consumed. So, during a prolonged fast, expect cold hands and feet, and better make sure you have a heavier blanket.

It will attempt to conserve blood glucose and to do this it needs all tissues that do not require glucose to stop trying absorb it from the blood. Luckily, GH inhibits the use of glucose by the muscle. But that leaves us in the position of having lost a source of energy for muscular activity. Doubly luckily, GH is lipolytic which increases FFA availability as an alternative energy substrate for the muscles. But what about those tissues that cannot use FFAs and resulting ketones for energy? For those tissues:

It will attempt to produce new glucose via gluconeogenesis. In this case, the inputs to this process are amino acids, so the body will need to find a supplier for these that does not require food. Luckily, we carry large pools of amino acids in all of our proteinaceous tissues. The trick is to liberate them, and this we achieve via the action of cortisol. So, during the course of a fast, cortisol levels increase to ensure that we can rely on gluconeogenesis as a source of glucose.

All of this is to say that actually, GH and cortisol are acting synergistically to provide the body with adequate energy from internal sources.

The cortisol belly fat connection is a marketing ploy to attempt to sell you some particular pharmaceutical or herbal cocktail that presumes to fix it. This is very similar to what happened with cellulite, which is nothing more than subcutaneous fat, but if I can sell you the disease, cellulite, then I can sell you the cures: anti-cellulite creams, exercise programs, and magic bracelets.

I am extremely fond of my proteinaceous tissues, especially my muscles. If there were some way to direct my cortisol to take some protein out of my nose, to make it more petite and button like, that would be great. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, so I am extremely wary of pushing my system into a situation where it will start to cannibalize hard earned muscle to keep my silly brain alive. So now, we have a tradeoff. How much muscle am I willing to give up for less subcutaneous fat? Not very much, so I advocate keeping fasting in the range of 40 hours in accordance with my priorities. If you really want to burn more fat, fast longer, realizing that you will be sacrificing more muscle tissue along the way. I do not recommend that you do this, but, it is ultimately your reality, and your decision.

-PK

That makes sense, thank you!
Huh, I had kind of taken the cortisol-belly fat connection as a given.
I wasn't asking about cortisol during 40+ hour fasts but in these up-to-40-hr fasts you write about here... I suppose even in these 40-hour-fasts there is some protein tissue/muscle breakdown but it's not significant compared to the use of stored fat?

I guess the bottom line is that a fast consists of not eating, and there is very little you can do, short of not eating, to trick your body into thinking it has not been fed when it has. Assuming you could trick your body this way, that would be disastrous, as you might find yourself in the paradoxical position where you keep eating and eating the faux feasts while the body is in full on famine response!

-PK

Are you aware of Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat-Loss Handbook? I had added that to my post after you responded - it's essentially a protein sparing modified fast where you for a prolonged period of time only eat the required protein plus essential minerals, vitamins and fatty acids (n-3). It would be interesting to see a study of the hormones and markers that you presented for such a modified fast where people essentially only eat their x grams of protein per lean body mass. If what you're guessing is correct then people on that protocol would not reap the benefits of fasting, but instead would be on a weird and unnatural combination of fasting and storing.

I think you need to be careful when breaking your fast to not eat with your eyes, but with your stomach. There is a tendency to try to "make up" for the skipped meals with the break fast meal, which is what I believe is what dboxing was getting at. I think this was brought about by JPA's comment that he was feeling stuffed? I've done this myself, having eaten to the point where my stomach was uncomfortably pushing against other organs! The one tip I can offer is to take a pause while eating to let your body's satiety signals kick in. I think on the order of 5 - 10 minutes. If, after a 10 min. pause you are still hungry, then by all means eat more.

-PK

Exactly. The idea is Intermittent Fasting followed by “normal” meals. It’s not Starve then Stuff. Regardless, no one says “I just got through fasting, and I’m craving a goat milk shake with 65 grams of added whey protein, in addition to my meal.”

So I am currently in hour 39 of a 40-hour fast, and I have to say it went smoother than I thought. I do 24 hours once a week, and I do a 16-8 pattern every day, so it really wasn't that much of a stretch. Around hour 22 I started feeling pretty sh*tty. I decided to push through and it subsided within an hour or two. I ended up being incredibly productive during the evening (yard work, cleaning, laundry). I had no trouble sleeping, and woke up feeling just fine. I'm starting to get hungry again now, and I'm looking forward to a healthy plate of delicious brisket in t-33 minutes.

Pklopp, I'm sorry if I missed it, but how often do you engage in an extended fast like this? Once a week? Every other week?