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Illuminati Apologist?

After the defeat of Spartacus, his followers were crucified along the Appian Way. Spartacus’ body was never found. Stanley Kubric’s 1960 film “Spartacus” ends with the crucified rebels taunting their captors from their crosses, each shouting, “I’m Spartacus!”

My posts on this blog have sometimes been called apologist, as far as the Bavarian Illuminati are concerned. Such statements neither give me a sense of pride, nor do they offend me. However, they are inaccurate because they are pointless. To me, stating that I make apologist statements on behalf of the Illuminati makes about as much sense as being an apologist for the Pleistocene. The Pleistocene was a geological epoch that began some 2.5 million years ago and ended nearly 12,000 years ago. Just like the Illuminati, it came and went, and is no more.

I am well aware that every once in a while, someone will come out of the woodwork and shout, “I’m Spartactus!” like in the final scene of Stanley Kubrick’s 1960 classic. Sometimes, these people will even make threats, but even credible threats prove nothing in the end.

I have never made it a secret that I am not conspiracy theorist. While I acknowledge that throughout history ruthless, powerful and/or wealthy persons have conspired to commit some very ugly things and still do so, no credible evidence of a master conspiracy proposed by the likes of Alex Jones or David Icke exists. Since Jones and Icke have never done me any wrong, I can honestly say that I don’t have anything against them personally, but I vehemently disagree with nearly everything they say. It’s the Internet, after all, and I live in a free country. As long as no one gets hurt, everyone has a right to say their piece.

This blog, however, is not the place to discuss the conspiracy movement in detail — only to the extend that conspiracist claims pertain to the scope of this blog. People like Edward L. Wiston have done extensive research in these matters, and the scope of the Illuminati Info blog is the study of the Bavarian Illuminati during their actual time of influence (1776 to appr. 1820).

Having made it clear that I am not a conspiracy theorist, the Bavarian Illuminati certainly were a curious historical phenomenon: Their Utopian vision for humanity was something many Libertarian-minded persons would find attractive to a large extent. Their internal implementation of a moral regimen, on the other hand, had aspects many would find disturbing by today’s standards, since this regimen meant that members who wished to advance in the order voluntarily relinquished every speck of personal privacy to their superiors. The Illuminati’s rituals were harmless, inasmuch as they did not feature human sacrifice, bloodshed, sexual depravity, blasphemy against the Christian religion, or violent revolution. They were crafty when it came to putting their ideas into practice, and this meant that their methods were not always on the level. The extent of their influence is a matter that requires much more extensive research. As is often the case within secret societies, talk was big within the Illuminati, and it was their big talk that landed the Illuminati in hot water during a politically turbulent time, especially since they had gone to great lengths of antagonizing the disbanded but still powerful Jesuits as well as esoteric groups, such as the Rosicrucians. Each of the above statements would take take several posts to explain in sufficient detail.

The tendency to be mistrustful of any secret endeavor is natural, and even former Illuminati, such as Knigge and Montgelas agreed with this concern after the order ceased to exist. And ultimately, nothing stays secret forever — there is always someone who breaks the code of silence, either out of a sense of disgruntlement or for recruiting purposes. In the case of the Bavarian Illuminati, we have more than enough available source material to entertain a rational, facts-based discussion.

18 thoughts on “Illuminati Apologist?”

I touch on it briefly in this post: https://bavarianilluminati.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/spying-games/ Terry Melanson goes into greater detail in “Perfectibilists.” The actual catalog of questions for members is some 5,000 words long.
I am currently collaborating on a comprehensive translation project with Josef Wages and Reinhard Markner, which will hopefully be published by the end of this year. That catalog will be included.

I am well aware that you are anti-conspiracy theory, and I’ve seen some of your posts on the skeptic site. There’s a lot of bunk out there and if it needs to be shown for what it is, then it needs to be. I’ve debunked all kinds in my internet forays.

But some things really are a conspiracy, which is why I dedicated many years to the real Illuminati. It’s one of those examples that you can cite which actually was a conspiracy – and a particular type. A sort of private secret service intent on infiltrating into the heart of the state. Propaganda Due is the nearest thing one can point to in a modern sense, though the latter were certainly much more dangerous than the former … but who knows how it could of ended up if Weishaupt had managed to keep it under wraps.

Over the years I have witnessed academia and professional skeptics mock conspiracy theorists to the point where it is suggested as a mental illness. More than a few have actually had the gull to declare that the Illuminati weren’t even conspiratorial. Freedom and reason are good things. Everyone understands this. Living under theocracy was no cake walk, and perhaps a group like the Illuminati in Bavaria was inevitable – just as the French Revolution. Weishaupt didn’t die for his cause, he didn’t do anything really except try and be a master conspirator and run like a scared child about to get a spanking. I respect revolutionaries, especially if they are willing to die for a just cause. There isn’t anything that I admire about Weishaupt, his ostensible “philosophy,” nor his underhanded methods of subversion and control.

I’d like to leave you with a recommendation. There’s a PhD thesis I came across recently that quite logically critics the deficient arguments of the new conspiracy skeptics. It is, in fact, a sort of defense of conspiracy theory. He’s quite brilliant, and appeals to common sense.

I think I used “apologist” because you had sent an email to me before the post in which you said you have to try and not write about it apologetically, or something similar. Likewise, I could tone down my own disdain for the Order. After you guys publish those texts, I’m sure there might be something in there that I could point to that wasn’t all a ruse and really a genuine sentiment for change.

We all have our biases, I’m certainly aware of mine. We’re all wired differently.

I like to debate issues that I write about as well. So please feel free to comment on any of my own posts at my conspiracy site, especially if you disagree. I used to have a great time debating the masons – all by my lonesome – over at Abovetopsecret … until they shut me up by shadow banning me 🙂 Funny though, since I’m gone most of those I sparred with have been praising my book to everyone who will listen, even some of my debunking posts such as the Pike/Mazzini letter canard.

Terry, you did not offend, and I am aware that conspiracies exist with good or bad intentions. I also know that you have debunked quite a few conspiracy theories yourself. The specific example that comes to mind right now is your pointing out how some conspiracy theorists misquote George Washington’s letter to Snyder.

You’re right, we all have our biases. I will definitely look at the thesis.

Since beginning my studies and sharing them, all kinds of people have asked me how they can join, if I’m a sympathizer, if I know any Illuminati, if I knew THEY’RE the Illuminati, etc.

Very well put. The Illuminati were an influential organization for a time, in a definite period and space which is no more. They were key players in the French Revolution through Nicolas Bonneville — Bode’s writing partner and friend. But studying the life of Bonneville — the leader of the Bavarian Illuminati of France — proves conclusively that his end was not like one sitting around a table devising how to divide up the world. He ended up an impoverished bookseller of France as of 1828 whose friends had to raise money to pay for his burial. Bonneville’s Illuminati clearly had previously died as a functioning organization well beforehand. Then why pursue their study? In my view, we need to give the Illuminati finally their due, despite their sins. We do not become their apologists by correcting common misperceptions that have exaggerated them into monsters. The Illuminati do not deserve many of the horrible things laid at their feet. Moreover, some of their aims were indeed libertarian and wholesome — at least liberating. This does not excuse their Machiavellian morality. To ask for a fair and accurate verdict is not to be an apologist. It is to be a truth-seeker who gives the Illuminati no less a fair treatment than we would expect for ourselves.

In the interest of accuracy then, “Bonneville’s Illuminati” is a misnomer.The Bavarian Illuminati were a specific organization “for a time, in a definite period and space.” You were either a member or you weren’t. Your name has been found on a bonafide list, or it hasn’t. You admitted it in some fashion, or you didn’t. I’m with you on Bonneville being as good a suspect as there is, but there’s no conclusive evidence.

This comment was sent directly to my spam filter, and for good reason. Normally, if it’s in the spam folder, I trash it right away.

However, sites like this remind me why a growing number of earnest researchers and scholars are studying the Bavarian Illuminati with the greatest amount of good faith and objectivity possible, looking at the documented evidence, examining it critically, arriving at facts-based conclusion, and re-examining these conclusion in the face of new evidence.

The specific original organization may have ceased to exist. But to suggest their conspiracy ended simply because they were “suppressed” in 1785, when in fact not a single member was arrested is absurd. Known Illuminati members remains clearly politically influential in revolutionary activity at least until 1817. And Spartacus himself remained a guest of the future British Royal Family up to his death in 1830.

I think the key to the continuation of their Conspiracy is not in Esoteric movement like the O.T.O. but in the Carnbonari and their descendents. Are there any websites and books that study the Carbonari in depth they way you and Terry study the Illuminati?

“Their Utopian vision for humanity was something many Libertarian-minded persons”. Not all Libertarian minded persons believe in Utopia. Quite the contrary to me thinking a Utopia is possible is the fallacy of Statism.

I’m using “utopian” to mean that they had a general idea of what a perfect world would be like, and I’m using the word “Libertarian” loosely — in the sense of a government that is so small and decentralized that it’s essentially nonexistent.

The details of their perfect world were certainly something that can be debated.