beardmcdoug wrote:lmao yeah, I remember thinking that back in high school too, Bootz. Then the darnedest thing happens to that opinion when you actually realize world history didn't start in 1500, and that the US doesn't exist in a vacuum. What you have issue with is humanity itself, not this great nation.

So THIS land specifically wasn't previously inhabited by Native Americans? And the African Slave trade never happened meaning the institution of slavery was never a thing in this country? That's what you're saying?

beardmcdoug wrote:lmao yeah, I remember thinking that back in high school too, Bootz. Then the darnedest thing happens to that opinion when you actually realize world history didn't start in 1500, and that the US doesn't exist in a vacuum. What you have issue with is humanity itself, not this great nation.

So THIS land specifically wasn't previously inhabited by Native Americans? And the African Slave trade never happened meaning the institution of slavery was never a thing in this country? That's what you're saying?

So....do you hate everyone else then? Do you hate the countries of Central and South America because they all pretty much did the same thing? Do you hate most of Europe for using slaves in their colonial empires and killing off the natives? What about Africa itself? Do you hate most of the free African states that sold off their people for guns and money back then? Is it time to start hating the Asian countries for exterminating and enslaving each other? Hell, some of them still have slaves.

Or are you just doing the "I'm black and the world still owes me" schtick?

Reasonable people are able to put aside their differences. So if there was an issue you wanted to advance some type legislation on, or just take advantage of the opportunity to have the ear of the POTUS you'd decline it b/c of your feelings for him personally?

I can't relate. But I've never hated a POTUS the way some people hate Trump. In my observation the ill feelings greatly impairs their better judgement.

I have a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, but I sure as **** wouldn't turn down an invitation from her if she was President. It's not the same, but the best analogy I can surmise for myself.

Oh, I'm a reasonable person.

I'm a liberal from urban California whose high school football team knelt for every national anthem last season. I'm not a big political donor or a woman with large fake breasts. I'm still on my first wife and none of my business partners are Russian.

Trump does not give a **** about the overwhelmingly vast majority of his constituents. I am most assuredly in that group.

And you think he'd listen to my policy ideas? He barely listens to people he likes. You crazy.

Reasonable people are able to put aside their differences. So if there was an issue you wanted to advance some type legislation on, or just take advantage of the opportunity to have the ear of the POTUS you'd decline it b/c of your feelings for him personally?

I can't relate. But I've never hated a POTUS the way some people hate Trump. In my observation the ill feelings greatly impairs their better judgement.

I have a strong dislike for Hillary Clinton, but I sure as **** wouldn't turn down an invitation from her if she was President. It's not the same, but the best analogy I can surmise for myself.

Oh, I'm a reasonable person.

I'm a liberal from urban California whose high school football team knelt for every national anthem last season. I'm not a big political donor or a woman with large fake breasts. I'm still on my first wife and none of my business partners are Russian.

Trump does not give a **** about the overwhelmingly vast majority of his constituents. I am most assuredly in that group.

And you think he'd listen to my policy ideas? He barely listens to people he likes. You crazy.

Respecting your opinion - but, given your criteria, I have to wonder who was the last president you would've felt obliged to accept an invitation from...?

MJW wrote:I agree, absolutely nobody should be forced.I also agree Trump has degraded the office, and has no class himself.I further agree that trying to bring issues to Trump's attention would be like slapping a rabid dog in the face with your penis.I additionally agree that Trump has been using the issue for cheap applause, the same way he uses nearly every issue.

Where we disagree is your argument that any of this means turning down the invitation to meet the President at the White House is something that should be applauded. The Office is bigger than the occupier of it. We used to understand that. Refusing to understand it now lowers civil society to Trump's level. It should not be applauded.

Oh, and again, refusing to do community work in DC because of the disinvite was trash. Trump didn't ban them from the city.

And Hodges likely got blackballed for romantic relationship with Jew-hating Farrakhan. But that's another discussion.

Where did I say the Eagles players should be applauded for declining the invite? My position is that it’s 100% okay for players to decline the invite. Past Presidents wouldn’t make a big deal of it, but this President can’t help responding out of offense.

My point is that the Eagles are in the wrong, too. They are within their rights, absolutely. Ten thousand percent. But this, "let's give them a cookie for being edgelords" thing doesn't work for me. This is stooping to Trump's level. I FULLY recognize that American citizens should never be ABLE to "stoop" to the level of the President. I consider that a given. But with Trump, you can, and they did.

Bootz2004 wrote:So THIS land specifically wasn't previously inhabited by Native Americans? And the African Slave trade never happened meaning the institution of slavery was never a thing in this country? That's what you're saying?

So....do you hate everyone else then? Do you hate the countries of Central and South America because they all pretty much did the same thing? Do you hate most of Europe for using slaves in their colonial empires and killing off the natives? What about Africa itself? Do you hate most of the free African states that sold off their people for guns and money back then? Is it time to start hating the Asian countries for exterminating and enslaving each other? Hell, some of them still have slaves.

Or are you just doing the "I'm black and the world still owes me" schtick?

I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

Nano wrote:So....do you hate everyone else then? Do you hate the countries of Central and South America because they all pretty much did the same thing? Do you hate most of Europe for using slaves in their colonial empires and killing off the natives? What about Africa itself? Do you hate most of the free African states that sold off their people for guns and money back then? Is it time to start hating the Asian countries for exterminating and enslaving each other? Hell, some of them still have slaves.

Or are you just doing the "I'm black and the world still owes me" schtick?

I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

The industry of slavery is ugly. But we should be honest about it.

Sure. Let's be honest about it.

But to what end? To tell black people how good they have it by comparison?

Nano wrote:So....do you hate everyone else then? Do you hate the countries of Central and South America because they all pretty much did the same thing? Do you hate most of Europe for using slaves in their colonial empires and killing off the natives? What about Africa itself? Do you hate most of the free African states that sold off their people for guns and money back then? Is it time to start hating the Asian countries for exterminating and enslaving each other? Hell, some of them still have slaves.

Or are you just doing the "I'm black and the world still owes me" schtick?

I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

The industry of slavery is ugly. But we should be honest about it.

I wasn't asking about any other civilizations or mankind. People like you throw red herrings out there in order to not answer the basis of the discussion. No fewer than 4 of you did that very thing. I'll sum it up to lack of knowledge mixed with fear of humiliation as well as being very COWARDLY.

Truth be told I never expected an answer or focused rebuttal. I fully expected a ton of deflection and like clock work you guys didn't disappoint.

DreadNaught wrote:I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

The industry of slavery is ugly. But we should be honest about it.

Sure. Let's be honest about it.

But to what end? To tell black people how good they have it by comparison?

Everyone has it better than at just about any point in history

It isn’t perfect and we shouldn’t pretend it is. But it’s about the best man has ever known

DreadNaught wrote:I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

The industry of slavery is ugly. But we should be honest about it.

I wasn't asking about any other civilizations or mankind. People like you throw red herrings out there in order to not answer the basis of the discussion. No fewer than 4 of you did that very thing. I'll sum it up to lack of knowledge mixed with fear of humiliation as well as being very COWARDLY.

Truth be told I never expected an answer or focused rebuttal. I fully expected a ton of deflection and like clock work you guys didn't disappoint.

Except you try to act like this country is different than pretty much the rest of human history. Was this country built exactly like you said? Yes. Was pretty much the rest of civilization throughout time built the same way? Yup. Still doesn't change the fact that we live in one of the greatest countries, during one of the greatest times to be alive as a human being.

DreadNaught wrote:I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

The industry of slavery is ugly. But we should be honest about it.

Sure. Let's be honest about it.

But to what end? To tell black people how good they have it by comparison?

Who is doing that?

Nobody is suggesting there isn't progress to be made. Being honest about human nature and world history is possible without telling black how good they have it imo.

That said there has never been a better time or place to live than America right now if you value liberty and prosperity regardless of your age, race, or gender.

Last edited by DreadNaught on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

It isn’t perfect and we shouldn’t pretend it is. But it’s about the best man has ever known

And its getting better all the time.

Maybe at some point we'll get to where nobody is getting shot by cops disproportionately.

Maybe at some point we'll get to a point where violent crimes are committed at a statistically average rate as well, look both sides of this are in the wrong. Both sides perpetuate the problem, until that changes, it's not going to get any better.

DreadNaught wrote:I don't want to tell Bootzy that before mankind was sailing across oceans the industry of slavery was thriving as civilizations enslaved their own. When empires expanded, the more advanced civilization inherited the lands. It was human nature of the time and certainly not synonymous with just white people.

In regards to the African Slave trade, who originally rounded up and shackled those would be slaves in sub Saharan Africa and had them ready at the ports where the slave trade occurred?

The industry of slavery is ugly. But we should be honest about it.

I wasn't asking about any other civilizations or mankind. People like you throw red herrings out there in order to not answer the basis of the discussion. No fewer than 4 of you did that very thing. I'll sum it up to lack of knowledge mixed with fear of humiliation as well as being very COWARDLY.

Truth be told I never expected an answer or focused rebuttal. I fully expected a ton of deflection and like clock work you guys didn't disappoint.

A lack of knowledge, fear of humiliation, and a large portrayal of cowardice are what describes you right now Mr.Bootz. Especially when it comes to history, a subject you apparently were not educated in. Either that or you were too busy doing...other things in that class.

Now, who would we consider a great nation then if our criteria are slavery and genocide are not in their history?