The real problem is not LFR catering to 10 afk people whilst the others try to down the boss, its the afk people... I still don't know why no contribution system is implemented yet (like in world-quests from warhammer online which was by far one of the best things), but I guess we will never know.

This, I can agree with. The only issue I ever found was the occasional alt-tabber who was reading WoWhead or watching a YouTube vid while on follow. I think the contribution to the fight is probably the biggest hindrance. If the system were to somehow flag/kick a player who did not get in at least some dmg/dps/or heals, that might encourage more participation. Or, base the loot gained on the level of dmg/dps/healing done during the fight. I'm sure it would take some time to tweak, but this would at least make the attempt at getting all parties involved in the fight.

Heroic = winning the marathon
Normal = trying to beat a particular time, your previous time, etc.
LFR = finishing the marathon
LFR w/ buff = being told you ran a marathon when you actually just ran a 10k, a 5k, or maybe even 1k race. Heck, you could have just stepped over the start line and sat down and the finish line would eventually come to you.

The problem with the last part is, in order to be told I ran the marathon, I would have started to run, fell down in 20 feet, lay there for a bit, run another 40 feet, fall down and lay there awhile, run another 80 feet, fall down and lay there for awhile. The "rest breaks" are essentially the dumbing down. But, the "adding a stacking buff that makes downing bosses stupidly easy" means we still have to fight the boss 8 or 9 times (sometimes more) before we get past it. Why should we have to be penalized just because "hardcore raiders" think we should wipe 50 times at reg difficulty like they do cause they think it is fun? LFR is easy mode raiding. 90% of the people playing this game are casuals. Complain all you like, but Blizz has said on more than one occasion how happy they are with the LFR.

The only real problem that I have with LFR is how players can get in to ToT LFR with a large portion of their gear being from heroic dungeons. THAT is a slap in the face. Average ilvl isn't enough anymore, they should expand it to "base-line ilvl for current BiS" in my opinion.

I'll also make one more attempt at explaining my (now quite overstretched) analogy:

Heroic = winning the marathon
Normal = trying to beat a particular time, your previous time, etc.
LFR = finishing the marathon
LFR w/ buff = being told you ran a marathon when you actually just ran a 10k, a 5k, or maybe even 1k race. Heck, you could have just stepped over the start line and sat down and the finish line would eventually come to you.

Have you actually done LFR the last 2 weeks? I don't get it. I just don't see this huge difference between the buff and how it was before.

If anything, I've seen way more people sticking around after a wipe and improving their play. Prime example is Ji-Kun. Have yet to 1-shot him on 3 different characters, but after the first wipe generally the nest team gets much better once they understand what they're doing. The people on the platform get better at gathering for quills and absorbing green blobs strategically.

Pretty much every time I've wiped in ToT LFR, the group has gotten better as the next attempt improves on execution and mechanics. The buff just helps a lot in getting people to stick around who might otherwise bail and hope for a better group later. It was a great change that helps groups stick together and learn the encounters.

Oh and I'd like to point out that the fact that they don't need to spend time and resources on new 5-mans every patch means they can put much more effort into the raid. And ToT is pretty damn good so far.

I'd like to think they want to add such a system, and just haven't gotten it ready yet. The devs are rather competent game designers, all told, and the problem with LFR is rather obvious.

Contribution-based rewards in a randomly organized group is counter to Blizzard's basic philosophy. Every person who meets the requirements for a LFD/LFR/world boss encounter will have the same chance to get a reward from the boss. All the changes Blizzard made to LFR/world bosses this expansion follow this idea.

The only real problem that I have with LFR is how players can get in to ToT LFR with a large portion of their gear being from heroic dungeons. THAT is a slap in the face. Average ilvl isn't enough anymore, they should expand it to "base-line ilvl for current BiS" in my opinion.

Apparently you funk math.

Heroic dungeon gear is 463, you need >480 to enter ToT LFR. Sure the valour shado-pan assault neck will push you up a bit but it isn't much.

Heroic dungeon gear is 463, you need >480 to enter ToT LFR. Sure the valour shado-pan assault neck will push you up a bit but it isn't much.

Uh... the Shado-Pan Assault gear is ilvl 522. That means it can counter-balance a single ilvl 438 item OR two ilvl 459 items. So, assuming a player had some VP stocked up, they could easily be wearing 4-5 Heroic Items (of which I have seen in ToT).

Next time you want to talk about "f(l)unking math," go try doing it yourself.

Uh... the Shado-Pan Assault gear is ilvl 522. That means it can counter-balance a single ilvl 438 item OR two ilvl 459 items. So, assuming a player had some VP stocked up, they could easily be wearing 4-5 Heroic Items (of which I have seen in ToT).

Next time you want to talk about "f(l)unking math," go try doing it yourself.

We have 12-13 gear slots. One 522 ilvl gear will give you an extra 522-463=59 ilvl total. Avg it out, you get about +5 to you ilvl bring you to 468. A far cry from the 480 required. To get the rest of the shado-pan assault pieces you need to get to friendly which requires you to kill trash and bosses in ToT LFR which they can't enter. They will still need either crafted gear, IoT faction gear or 5.0 LFR gear to reach 480.

We have 12-13 gear slots. One 522 ilvl gear will give you an extra 522-463=59 ilvl total. Avg it out, you get about +5 to you ilvl bring you to 468. A far cry from the 480 required. To get the rest of the shado-pan assault pieces you need to get to friendly which requires you to kill trash and bosses in ToT LFR which they can't enter. They will still need either crafted gear, IoT faction gear or 5.0 LFR gear to reach 480.

You left out the easiest cheesiest gearing mechanism: ilvl 476 honor gear.

"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

Uh... the Shado-Pan Assault gear is ilvl 522. That means it can counter-balance a single ilvl 438 item OR two ilvl 459 items. So, assuming a player had some VP stocked up, they could easily be wearing 4-5 Heroic Items (of which I have seen in ToT).

Next time you want to talk about "f(l)unking math," go try doing it yourself.

he was talking Shado Pan, not Shado Pan assault. And there's no VP to be stocked up. 3k, and that's it. You can get 4 pieces if you buy the cheap stuff that's discounted. But that doesn't get you 480 ilevel.
For the 522 gear you need rep, rep you get from the raid....
And don't forget the cheap valor gear still requires the rep for GL and the other factions.. All in all, it is NOT possible in mostly heroic 5 man gear.
You overlooking the truth however.... OFFSPEC..
I can have an ilevel 510 geared main spec toon and get in LFR with it, wearing an average ilevel of 437... For all I need is putting on my shiny gear and queue, once inside I switch to my other gear.. Practical example: Epic Healer running for Tank OS.. The healer gear won't do shit, he's better off with the green gear.

I can see peoples problems, but for me (as a raider, currently 3/12, soon to be 6 though, council is a bitch) its quite fun. Some upgrades and a bit of craic with the guild. Bare in mind I do lfr with about 5 guildies including a tank and healer usually.

You can grind out full 476 gear in like 20 heroics. 5.2 "catchup" is only slightly slower than grinding HoT heroics for full 378 gear in DS.

Well, it is a "catchup" mechanism. It kind of has to work in a reasonable fashion.

Anyway, I was just countering the BS assertion you can wonder into ToT LFR in heroic blues. Also it would take you more than 20 heroics to get enough honour to get a full 476 set. 20 heroics will yield about 480*20 = 9600JP -> 6400HP. It would get you around 3-5 pieces of PVP gear. You can't even buy a weapon with that.