12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

Below is our list of twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the MSM, and the memes so prevalent on social media.

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Dr Sucharit Bhakdi is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.

What he says:

We are afraid that 1 million infections with the new virus will lead to 30 deaths per day over the next 100 days. But we do not realise that 20, 30, 40 or 100 patients positive for normal coronaviruses are already dying every day.

[The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous […] The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people. The consequences on medical care are profound. Already services to patients in need are reduced, operations cancelled, practices empty, hospital personnel dwindling. All this will impact profoundly on our whole society.

All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.

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Dr Wolfgang Wodarg is a German physician specialising in Pulmonology, politician and former chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. In 2009 he called for an inquiry into alleged conflicts of interest surrounding the EU response to the Swine Flu pandemic.

What he says:

Politicians are being courted by scientists…scientists who want to be important to get money for their institutions. Scientists who just swim along in the mainstream and want their part of it […] And what is missing right now is a rational way of looking at things.

We should be asking questions like “How did you find out this virus was dangerous?”, “How was it before?”, “Didn’t we have the same thing last year?”, “Is it even something new?”

That’s missing.

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Dr Joel Kettner s professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases.

I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why.

[…]

I worry about the message to the public, about the fear of coming into contact with people, being in the same space as people, shaking their hands, having meetings with people. I worry about many, many consequences related to that.

[…]

In Hubei, in the province of Hubei, where there has been the most cases and deaths by far, the actual number of cases reported is 1 per 1000 people and the actual rate of deaths reported is 1 per 20,000. So maybe that would help to put things into perspective.

Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine and a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).

He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine.

As a physician, scientist and author he has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. In addition, he pioneered the field of meta-research. He has shown that much of the published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence.

Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.

[…]

Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes.

[…]

If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.

– “A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data”, Stat News, 17th March 2020

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Dr Yoram Lass is an Israeli physician, politician and former Director General of the Health Ministry. He also worked as Associate Dean of the Tel Aviv University Medical School and during the 1980s presented the science-based television show Tatzpit.

Italy is known for its enormous morbidity in respiratory problems, more than three times any other European country. In the US about 40,000 people die in a regular flu season and so far 40-50 people have died of the coronavirus, most of them in a nursing home in Kirkland, Washington.

[…]

In every country, more people die from regular flu compared with those who die from the coronavirus.

[…]

…there is a very good example that we all forget: the swine flu in 2009. That was a virus that reached the world from Mexico and until today there is no vaccination against it. But what? At that time there was no Facebook or there maybe was but it was still in its infancy. The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.

Whoever thinks that governments end viruses is wrong.

– Interview in Globes, March 22nd 2020

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Dr Pietro Vernazza is a Swiss physician specialising Infectious Diseases at the Cantonal Hospital St. Gallen and Professor of Health Policy.

What he says:

We have reliable figures from Italy and a work by epidemiologists, which has been published in the renowned science journal ‹Science›, which examined the spread in China. This makes it clear that around 85 percent of all infections have occurred without anyone noticing the infection. 90 percent of the deceased patients are verifiably over 70 years old, 50 percent over 80 years.

[…]

In Italy, one in ten people diagnosed die, according to the findings of the Science publication, that is statistically one of every 1,000 people infected. Each individual case is tragic, but often – similar to the flu season – it affects people who are at the end of their lives.

[…]

If we close the schools, we will prevent the children from quickly becoming immune.

[…]

We should better integrate the scientific facts into the political decisions.

– Interview in St. Galler Tagblatt, 22nd March 2020

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Frank Ulrich Montgomery is German radiologist, former President of the German Medical Association and Deputy Chairman of the World Medical Association.

I’m not a fan of lockdown. Anyone who imposes something like this must also say when and how to pick it up again. Since we have to assume that the virus will be with us for a long time, I wonder when we will return to normal? You can’t keep schools and daycare centers closed until the end of the year. Because it will take at least that long until we have a vaccine. Italy has imposed a lockdown and has the opposite effect. They quickly reached their capacity limits, but did not slow down the virus spread within the lockdown.

– Interview in General Anzeiger, 18th March 2020

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Prof. Hendrik Streeck is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University.

The new pathogen is not that dangerous, it is even less dangerous than Sars-1. The special thing is that Sars-CoV-2 replicates in the upper throat area and is therefore much more infectious because the virus jumps from throat to throat, so to speak. But that is also an advantage: Because Sars-1 replicates in the deep lungs, it is not so infectious, but it definitely gets on the lungs, which makes it more dangerous.

[…]

You also have to take into account that the Sars-CoV-2 deaths in Germany were exclusively old people. In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics. But the question is whether he would not have died anyway, even without Sars-2.

– Interview in Frankfurter Allgemeine, 16th March 2020

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Dr Yanis Roussel et. al. – A team of researchers from the Institut Hospitalo-universitaire Méditerranée Infection, Marseille and the Institut de Recherche pour le Développement, Assistance Publique-Hôpitaux de Marseille, conducting a peer-reviewed study on Coronavirus mortality for the government of France under the ‘Investments for the Future’ programme.

The problem of SARS-CoV-2 is probably overestimated, as 2.6 million people die of respiratory infections each year compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing.

[…]

This study compared the mortality rate of SARS-CoV-2 in OECD countries (1.3%) with the mortality rate of common coronaviruses identified in AP-HM patients (0.8%) from 1 January 2013 to 2 March 2020. Chi-squared test was performed, and the P-value was 0.11 (not significant).

[…]

…it should be noted that systematic studies of other coronaviruses (but not yet for SARS-CoV-2) have found that the percentage of asymptomatic carriers is equal to or even higher than the percentage of symptomatic patients. The same data for SARS-CoV-2 may soon be available, which will further reduce the relative risk associated with this specific pathology.

I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near-total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long-lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.

– “Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?”, New York Times 20th March 2020

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Michael T. Osterholm is regents professor and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

Consider the effect of shutting down offices, schools, transportation systems, restaurants, hotels, stores, theaters, concert halls, sporting events and other venues indefinitely and leaving all of their workers unemployed and on the public dole. The likely result would be not just a depression but a complete economic breakdown, with countless permanently lost jobs, long before a vaccine is ready or natural immunity takes hold.

[…]

[T]he best alternative will probably entail letting those at low risk for serious disease continue to work, keep business and manufacturing operating, and “run” society, while at the same time advising higher-risk individuals to protect themselves through physical distancing and ramping up our health-care capacity as aggressively as possible. With this battle plan, we could gradually build up immunity without destroying the financial structure on which our lives are based.

– “Facing covid-19 reality: A national lockdown is no cure”, Washington Post 21st March 2020

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Dr Peter Goetzsche is Professor of Clinical Research Design and Analysis at the University of Copenhagen and founder of the Cochrane Medical Collaboration. He has written several books on corruption in the field of medicine and the power of big pharmaceutical companies.

Our main problem is that no one will ever get in trouble for measures that are too draconian. They will only get in trouble if they do too little. So, our politicians and those working with public health do much more than they should do.

No such draconian measures were applied during the 2009 influenza pandemic, and they obviously cannot be applied every winter, which is all year round, as it is always winter somewhere. We cannot close down the whole world permanently.

Should it turn out that the epidemic wanes before long, there will be a queue of people wanting to take credit for this. And we can be damned sure draconian measures will be applied again next time. But remember the joke about tigers. “Why do you blow the horn?” “To keep the tigers away.” “But there are no tigers here.” “There you see!”

If you can find any other examples of noteworthy experts deviating from the mainstream narrative, please post them below. As always, this list have been impossible to build without Swiss Propaganda Research. Follow their work and share widely. An indispensable resource.

The number of deaths is not the only factor when trying to infer the impact of those deaths. Shouldn’t the following factors somehow also be considered:

1. Those 5000 infected health workers were probably unable to perform their duty. I mean we all saw the pictures from the situation at the hospitals. Wouldn’t 5000 additional health workers be something good to have?
2. Maybe other patients died because they did not receive the kind of treatment that would have been possible with 5000 additional health care workers?
3. Isn’t it also possible that an unknowingly infected health care worker infects more people than a normal person that is under lock down? (Sitting at home watching tv vs interacting with patients)
Etc etc.
To sum it up: isn’t the world more complicated than a single number?

Facts and statistics during this ‘pandemic’ are biased and ‘unproven’ as nearly 60 to 70 percent of the ‘reported Covid-19’ deaths are just that, “reported as Covid-19.” Actual related deaths can only be factual if full autopsies and/or complete lab work has been performed, otherwise it’s solely based on a doctor’s best educated guess from either an innacurrate swab test (that didn’t get lab tested) or the doctor’s best educated guess based on symptoms related to Covid-19, the doctor’s signing the deceased patients death certificates ‘have been instructed globally to list ALL SUSPECTED Covid-19 deaths as being Covid-19 related, so an 80 year old that had caught regular influenza but suffered like a patient with Covid-19 due to the patients age and having Chronic COPD would be listed as having passed due to Covid-19 on the death certificate!
This IS FACT and the PROOF of this misleading diagnosing WORLDWIDE can be found online, simply view this latest YouTube video of Dr. Annie Bukacek, who clearly gives enough factual proof in a live seminar at a medical convention (don’t quote me on this last part, as I’m assuming that’s where the announcement was recorded) that should (in my opinion) become a global investigation by W.H.O. or some other governing medical body as to WHY THIS MISLEADING PRACTICE has been given as ‘orders from the US Department of Health’ (or higher governing body) and is being used as a ‘tool’ to inflict fear mongering and thus become the leading factor for our current state of global quarantining and impending economic collapse. This is unnaceptable and restarting our global economy should be the primary goal before governments have become so financially burdened that we can’t pay our physicians, doctors and necessary medical personnel at all. Then at that point do Emergency Acts and Marshal Laws force doctors to work? Get ready for it folks, that’s the course we’re on if changes aren’t made soon!
Either way according to the ‘estimated specifications’ from Dr. Bukacek (She is a current member of several medical associations and has been signing death certificates for over 30 years!) there’s easily over 60 percent or recorded Covid-19 related deaths being added to the global totals that WHO and other organizations are tallying that haven’t been properly diagnosed via lab tests or autopsies, deaths added as caused by Covid-19 simply on the physicians ‘best educated guess’ and then signed off on the death certificate as ’cause of death’ because they’re being

If you go to the CDC website they have the guidelines on reporting covid19 deaths. There are 3 lines for cause of death and doctors are instructed to provide the cause of death beat as possible. If some died of a heart attack and they were infected. The heart attack will be on line one. Covid-19 on line 2. Sadly this narrative about death certs is one example of the public caused hysteria going on around this virus. Also I want the writer of this post to maybe follow up with all these docs he got sound bites from in the middle of March and see what their tune is now. Our numbers have surpassed influenza Already from staying at home.

Where were all you researching? Where was your funding coming from how many people in your study groups are measured in this research study? What parts of the population were you working with! Where’s the Data, how many have been in your study groups and what Health admins supported these trials of 12 people?

Then if that’s true (which it is and is being used as the governing rule globally) the reported deaths as being caused directly from Covid-19 are ‘speculation’ and based mostly on the physicians ‘best educated guess’ and then officially (without lab testing OR autopsies) are being signed off on the diseased persons death certificates AS DIRECTLY DUE to Covid-19. These stats are being spread by mainstream media, numbers inflated potentially ‘more than double’ as ACTUAL CONFIRMED cases and not as ‘REPORTED’ cases of being directly due to Covid-19. Thus the global panic and pandemic has ensued throwing humanity into a fatal economic collapse that’ll take years to climb out of! I’m glad I’m 53 years old already and won’t have to endure it for too long, it’s the children I worry about, their futures are extremely uncertain and they’re the generation that’ll be running things next, potentially very uneducated, deprived and using self knowledge from the internet to succeed in life and make decisions from… wait a minute, isn’t that how our family doctors diagnose your conditions now? (after they leave your room and Google your symptoms and needed meds before returning with your prescription?)😲
Food for thought…

Sorry I forgot to add the link I’m referencing this fact from, a YouTube video from Dr. Annie Kubacek’s statement during a medical convention or announcement, likely with intentions on enlightening the rest of the medical field and public with the ‘global fear mongering and mainstream media influence being based on “doctors best educated guesses” before signing death certificates of direct cause, instead of potentially caused by Covid-19.https://youtu.be/a7ZGPDW4gGE

Meanwhile, at least here in the U.S., health workers are being laid off across the country because there are fewer people coming to emergency rooms for other reasons and elective procedures have been cancelled. It’s a fact; look it up.

Here are up to date results per the CDC from State Pathologists after autopsies were conducted… The really interesting part begins after Researching trends regarding other known causes of death that used to be significantly higher pre-Epidemic… So then we have to wonder “where did all the Deaths from Cancer, COPD, Heart Disease, Strokes go?”

Notice the 33 in there? That’s a conveniently recurring number throughout covid news stories everywhere. Dark occult control symbolism there. Look into it for yourselves, but don’t put too much worry or energy towards it. Just notice the lies it accompanies and look for the Truth.

My question is where is the original research proving that Covid-19 is a pathogen in the first place? You would first need to determine if there is a causal link between a virus and a given disease in the first place. Has such a causal link been established?

What we do know is that in October 2019 the Bill Gates Foundation simulated a deadly coronavirus pandemic and a few weeks later we were told a deadly novel coronavirus had been found. But where is the proof?

* We aren’t seeing any new kind of symptoms, nor any measurable kind of impact in death rates. We are however seeing a lot of questionable diagnostic procedures and falsely classified deaths.
* Nor are we seeing an impact on arguably the most vulnerable demographic to a new pathogen: babies and children. All we’re really seeing is mostly elderly people with underlying health issues die off and their deaths attributed to Covid-19, instead of to old age or pre-existing conditions.
* There is a difference in dying WITH the virus and dying OF the virus as many have pointed out.
* The criteria for a confirmed case of Covid-19 is simply a positive test. However the test itself is flawed, throwing up false positives. Nor does the test actually isolate the alleged virus. The manufacturer of the test itself states that it shouldn’t be used to diagnose infectious disease. That’s a pretty key point.

It should be noted that the Bill Gates Foundation is the second top donor to the WHO (bumped up to top donor following the US pull-out). The next biggest donor to the WHO are GAVI – and GAVI was founded by the Bill Gates Foundation. GAVI is interwoven with the UK government and pharmaceutical lobby, and highly involved in the vaccination process. Bill Gates is a founding partner in another company, called the ID2020 Alliance, whose goal is to give every human being on earth a digital ID. How do they plan to accomplish this? By combining mandatory vaccinations with implantable microchips.

Interesting enough, I found info on Wikipedia, I know, I know about Wikipedia but not anyone can change the info anymore. As I write this here I checked back on Wikipedia for reference and I noticed it was altered on April 24, 2020 after I posted it on FB. Enough proof it started in WuTan Institute of Virology by studying coronavirus in bats. WuTan had an epidemical breakout of pneumonia in December of 2019 that they found was linked to the coronavirus CV-19. I’m sorry it is gone but I’ll check FB but (probably deleted) Also the coronavirus (human) was created or found by scientists in 1960.

Guardian is part of the MSM and liberal media. Knowing how skewed and biased their reporting is I never look at their website when it appears as a recommendation or web search result when I am looking for something. Out of curiosity I have looked at their website twice and will never give their website anymore traffic.

Here are some resources to improve your selection of news sources that I share when the topic of news and sources comes up. Even though I am conservative I try to stay as close to Center on the left right news scale to avoid hyperbole and other scare tactics. I created a News bookmark folder to save these website links and to save sources that I look at infrequently. https://www.allsides.com/https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ and the Media Bias Chart https://www.adfontesmedia.com/

I know exactly what site I am on, I can tell the difference between this site and “The Guardian” news website. My only mistake was I didn’t realize that I forgot to type “The” before Guardian at the beginning of my reply to a previous post by erm who was citing The Guardian for an article. That is why my comment is placed a little more to the left in line with the other people who replied to erm. Unfortunately this website does not use lines connecting replies to bridge the gap over sub-replies like Disqus does for comments on many websites.

Did you take the time to read and actually think about what I said in my comment before making false accusations, “Guardian is part of the MSM and liberal media. Knowing how skewed and biased their reporting is I never look at their website when it appears as a recommendation or web search result when I am looking for something.

(If I were posting this comment on THE Guardian website I would say, “Knowing how skewed and biased the reporting is on this website I never look at this website when it appears as a recommendation…”)

Out of curiosity I have looked at their website twice and will never give their website anymore traffic.” Notice the use of the word “their” and not “this” like I would have typed if I were on THE Guardian website posting this comment. Also I said I would never give “their” website more traffic, I did not say I would never give “this” website more traffic.

It’s been about 20 years since I earned my Journalism degree that I never used after college because I unexpectedly got into a career of Mental Health and Corrections (basically working with combative adults some with criminal histories). There is enough vitriol and anger going around without either of us adding more. Whether it be online or in real life, next time you encounter something you don’t understand, are unsure about or disagree with ask clarifying questions to make sure you understand what a person is saying or what their body language is saying before assuming the worst.

With digital communication like email, texting, online comments etc it can be easy to misinterpret what someone is saying and overreact. This is when it is especially important to make sure you understand what someone is saying. In real life I have a bit of a sarcastic/funny attitude. But I absolutely do not use any sarcasm online or when communicating with someone I don’t know very well. Unfortunately, sarcasm when used for digital communication can be interpreted different ways depending on the mindset or mood of the receiver. Digitally communicated sarcasm can cause a whole lot of unnecessary grief and problems so if in doubt I leave it out.

If you remember nothing else about what I said here please remember this, I’ve learned long ago most people are good and to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. A quote I picked up years ago somewhere online, “Do you have heart or hate? With one inside the other one ain’t.”

Ecuador changed when the long-term US asset, ‘Lenin’ Moreno succeeded to the Presidency, and commenced reversing ALL Correa’s policies and returning to Uncle Satan’s cabal. Assange should have gone to Russia, or better yet, China, so he’s stuffed.

Hey there Feisal, lol no I didn’t work in a prison or jail. I worked in a mental health facility mostly with adults and some juvenile’s. Some had mental health issues, some were combative and assaultive some with criminal histories and some were convicted sex offenders. Like a lot of people I want to college for something that interested me and after I graduated I got into a different career field.

I have no interest in virology. But I have been questioning this whole coronavirus thing as it started gaining more attention here in the US during February and March. While trying to find factual information my curiosity, that lead me to study journalism, started to take over leading me investigate and ask questions.

Badly informed? Not at all, already into my 6th decade living the broken UK democracy.

Disinfo? Not all, I’m giving my opinion based on what I experience.

When I say “broken democracy” I’m also referring to the whole FPTP electoral system and lack of true representation as is present in just about every other European country. I’m referring to the revolving doors between business and our politicians to such an extent that contemporary government policy is shaped purely to suit corporations and their donors. I could go on and on. Their corporate media then persuade the busy and the brainless that all is wonderful and it will be much worse under Corbyn’s Labour.

Once the boundaries are redrawn the Tories will have an overwhelming majority and as we have recently seen it only takes 84 nutters in the party to get their way entirely. You are the one showing completely naivety in ignoring the Tory calls for deregulation. Once they are in power with a majority and the likes of JRM or BJ in charge, there will be no stopping the evil bastards.

Don’t fool yourself about the UK having greater control and sovereignty post-Brexit. A small country in a large world at the mercy of WTO tariffs will decimate industry and the supply chain in the short term. In the long term it will force us into shockingly one-sided trade deals especially with the US. I believe that’s the intention anyway, the UK will become even more of a vassal state to the US than it is already. The Brexiteers are already masturbating over the thought of joining NAFTA.

I believe that there is a huge number of people who voted to remain who gloat over every fearmongering report which states that the grass will turn pink if we leave the EU and that those people hope that leaving the EU will be a disaster so that they can look down upon those who voted to leave. They want the UK to fail if they don’t get their way. I believe that you are one of those people.

The UK is not going to ‘fail’. It is going to collapse into mass poverty, hyper-exploitation and almost certain civil strife, perhaps war. And Scotland will leave ‘the Union’, and Northern Ireland return to civil war. All going to test your ‘bull(yboy)dog spirit’.

As I mentioned earlier, I completely understand, and indeed agree, with the Brexiters’ concerns about UK sovereignty issues. But the “UK Elite” have been blaming their mismanagement and corruption on the UK upon the EU for at leaat 2 decades. It’s always the fault of the EU. Never the UK govt responsibility.

So let’s look at the EU. Yes, it’s been somewhat dominated in recent years by neoliberals, but it’s fundamentally social democratic in its origins and spirit. It needs reforming, but less so than the broken UK “democracy”.

The EU, a market of 550 million humans has been the biggest and most successful human achievement in recorded history, It’s been underpinned by centuries of progress.

The US see it as a major competitor and want, even need, to bring it down, hence Brexit on the western front and the Polish-US neoliberal nutters on the eastern front; a classic pincer movement. Divide and conquer.

As I said, lots of issues with the EU, but FAR bettter for the UK to stay in and working to improve it rather than being on the outside trying to bring it down.

The average EU worker is massively better off within the EU than without it. Any doubters need to spend a year or two in the EU and you will understand.

Reply to Franklyspeaking
Firstly the anti-democratic elite in the UK is nearly all Remained, it is those who disagree with the mostly self appointed elite who have blamed the EU for many problems, often using evidence. The elite usually cannot defend the EU and as in the referendum only make negative statements about the consequences of leaving, which are of course unknown, unless of course you have the actual economic data for the next 10 years in both cases. If you do please can you share it?
As for the second paragraph it’s just your opinion and one I totally disagree with but am happy to be proved wrong if you have any evidence.
The US see the EU as a major competitor because it is. Many countries in the EU have a long history of antipathy to America, who made the great sacrifice of money and human lives to save many European countries from Germany. Germany now has achieved european hegemony anyway.
As for workers being far better off in the EU than the UK, you failed to mention in what way. I currently live in Spain, Spanish workers are definately not better off than those in the UK, the job market is sclerotic wages are poor, health and safety is nowhere near as good, social security is totally inadequate and the pension system is bankrupt about once a year and has to be bailed out, national politicians are incredibly corrupt and it is incredibly hard to start a business, the health service is good and free at source but is no as comprehensive as the NHS, for example you have to pay for an ambulance. Now, let’s talk about Greek workers… German workers are very well off, but so would those in the UK be if things were different eg trade balance, Germany has a huge current account surplus 400 billion made possible by the relatively low value of the Euro for them, the UK has a huge trade deficit about 60 billion with the EU. This surplus is equivalent to about 3,ooo Euros per capita, so yes German workers are well off. How about Italy? Portugal? Any facts to disprove the above? You could always ask one of the Greeks 16.2 % unemployment rate or Spanish 14.2 unemployment Oct 2019 or Italian only 9.7 in Oct 2019.
So here I am in Europe and these are the facts. UK? 3.7% despite that huge trade deficit a very comprehensive social security and healthcard system, an ever improving record on health and safety. Yes things need fixing but the EU won’t fix them, they wanted our money, the UK was the second biggest net contributor whilst losing 60 billion through the trade deficit so total cost of the EU 70 billion. Trade with the rest of the world is roughly in balance and they don’t charge us, nor do they actively try and shut out our service sector like the EU.

I think N Irelsnd, in the circumstances you describe, would be delighted to Vote for reunification. No need for a civil war – although no doubt some extremists will cause trouble in their death throes.

There was no civil war in n.ireland. What we had was a counter attack by the Brit state, led by its proxy death squads, against those of whom wanted an end to British rule over Irish people. Just saying.

If the recourse to blame were identified as an invalid distortion and block to genuine communication and redacted from the record, there would be little said here on ‘brexit’ or indeed most subjects.

Regulatory capture is the use of law – including contractual agreements upon and between legally defined entities, as a weapon against those who are then left without a voice. They are overruled or ruled out.

Mind capture is the setting of narratives by which people are induced to ‘love’ their slavery and hate and fear freedom.

Orwell scripted 1984 as a picture of the herded and managed mind.
(He wanted to entitle the book 1948).

False hope – or rather mis-directed hopes – play into imagined escape from un faced and un-owned fears that are then easily flagged to outside events, agencies or evils that once reacted to as real, engage an investment of self in the narrative.

Assertive opinion then operates a mindless reaction as seeded and farmed by the management class – who are no less managed – but in versions of the script that incentivise a similar identity investment in an ‘us’ allied in common opposition to a ‘them’.

The population at large has been identified as ‘the enemy’ by those who exploit and predate upon their fellow humans in some belief it is their right and duty to do so. The ‘management’ may have internal divisions as to the manner and division of the ‘mind-share’ of jurisdiction, but not with regard to their investment of allegiance to the idea of domination as possession or control over feared, hated or disregarded others.

The consolidation of management as an essentially faceless bureaucratic technocracy, is of the dominion operating from the capture of wealth, by which to capture Law, Media services, Education, Scientific and Medical Institutions, and any other vector of influence – whilst generating overarching ‘global’ initiatives apparently for unifying protection against war, hunger, disease and catastrophe (man made or otherwise) supposedly as experts in their field who enact private agenda in the drafting of ‘guidelines’ that are weighted using the undue influences listed, with ‘incentives’ that escalate to become ‘an offer you cant refuse’.

The Mafia is organised crime. Its term goes beyond any particular organisation, society, corporate or political or other interest, to birds of a feather that flock together, because they all see the world the same and think and speak the same language. However, the power consolidates or is aligned to the ability to set the narrative in which everyone else then ‘thinks’. A society of ‘incentivised’ order is thus posited as a ‘freedom, power or protection’ that the acceptance of always delivers a dependency of captive, powerless vulnerability.

Enter the ‘matrix’ as the ‘thought adjustment’ of asserted and defended identity investment.
The Emperor is naked – yet the ‘cunning tailors’ have dressed you in your own illusion – defended as very ‘self’ by the betrayal and sacrifice of love to its survival. Of course not owned as such – but the self-hate cannot but leak out as a quickness to blame-hate and likewise invalidate.

International, inter- personal or intra-personal co-operation is the idea of communication, not coercion.
While possession operates ‘9/10th of the law’ in terms of established momentum, it operates the ruling and regulating OF communication by the appearance of ‘giving’ or enforcing rights and regulations of a narrative agenda masked in ‘scientific consensus’ from which a lay person is excluded a voice.

When you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all. But while we want to be reinforced in our personal identity investment of hopes and fears, we will NOT see but will take the baited hook and run the scripted result as intended under belief our cause is just and our enemy justifies our reaction.

Either the choice for slavery is recognized and relinquished, or it demands further sacrifice. Because fear-induced appetite is never satisfied or allayed by appeasement.

“To those who have, more shall be given, but t those who have not, more shall be taken – even the little that they have”. The decision to to have and live from having being instead of living from a lack that seeks to cover or inflate itself.

NOT living our self-responsibility invites or even demands indeed others, take over along with other ideas of self-justifying definition. True nakedness to being is no shame – who tells us we are ‘shame-naked’ but the voice for blame?

Complete bollocks! Brexit hasn’t really started, yet the British economy is on the verge of collapse thanks to the Covid crisis alone. The worst thing we can do is to inflict more damage to the economy by continuing with Brexit. In any case, the crass Brexit ideology will soon be forgotten in the coming tsunami of lost jobs and food shortages. All ideologies fail when survival is of the essence!

You need to do some reading about WTO terms of trading and they you might wake up to the reality of the massive harm that will be caused to the UK economy if we crash out of the EU without a deal.

You may also get to learn that we cannot trade on WTO terms after leaving unless we negotiate and agree tariffs with more than 150 other WTO members, many of them not friendly towards the UK’s interests.

You think negotiating with 27 friendly neighbours is difficult, just wait until we try with 5-6 times that number scattered around the globe with different interests to ours, even hostile towards us. Time to wake up.

Very few European countries operate zero hour contracts, the working time directive gives everybody who is covered by it 28 days holidays , the agency workers directive was rejected by the UK fascists, most of the utilities in Europe are state owned which we gladly pay them to run ours, most of the transport in Europe is nationalised, and again run ours, why do you think the French workers are on strike now? to preserve the social model they have, and wish to preserve it, unlike here they would rather go and watch millionaires kicking a ball around sat/ sun. and couldn’t care less.rented accommodation in Europe very heavily controlled , over here? free for all. Eurostar made four hundred million, a nationalised company, what happened ,sold to the French, no I’ll take the Europe model every time over these zealot bastards.

It is always confusing to read comments when the commenter does not include the reason or topic for his answer. That way, people like “whatismyname” can practice proper writing skills and show the rest how it is done. As for the main article topic, most people get so involved in arguing with each other, they forget to contribute to the actual discussion at hand. This is actually quite disrespectful to the author, and the people who have to pay/maintain/moderate the site. That is why I apologise to the site owner/s for this irrelevance, while the coronavirus pandemic is raging across every fake news channel in the world…

@whatismyname, while I agree that The Guardian conveys some liberal themes, I don’t see them as liberal per se. If they are, then where are their calls for Socialism or Communism? Spouting various themes that make liberal people gravitate towards them doesn’t make them liberal. After all, they are owned by The Scott Trust. People involved in tax havens, money laundering and HSBC. In what situation would people like this want their wealth taken away or wealth redistribution?

Bro’, you are obviously “Liberal”. The Guardian does not “call for Socialism or Communism”, a turn of phrase that betrays your lack of distinction between or even understanding of those two political theories. What the Guardian, and just about every other media entity out there, is doing, is to casually use the language of the communist/ globalist/ satanist /free-market capitalists in everyday conversation, until you cannot even distinguish Socialism from Communism anymore. I suggest you study the Protocols of Zion. It starts with : “…and we should carefully consider the meaning of words…”.

Paranoid is a very apt name. And Goy? Neo-Nazi much? I know the Guardian does not call for Socialism or Communism, that’s why I said it. Thanks for re-enforcing the point. The irony is, you then go on to throw Communist and Free-market Capitalist in the same sentence. You clearly have no idea. Clearly the Guardian supports free-market Capitalism and not any forms of economic systems that come from the left, through Socialism and Communism. And Satanist? Wtf? Whatever evidence you think you have about Satanism through the elite, is derived from opinion and anecdotal evidence and is tenuous at best. Juxtapose that with Christian nations like the US, UK and Australia entering wars illegally, still occupying illegally after 17 years, killing 100’s of thousands, as well as destroying the free-market through unjust sanctions.

And The Protocols of Zion? The Church would be pleased that after 1000’s of years, the Jews are still being blamed for things others are doing. The Blood libel myth still works as a clever distraction on fools even thousands of years later, while they ignore what is right in front of their face. How you buy into The Protocols of Zion and not understand that most countries and religions suffer from tribalism and a superiority complex.

Next, you will start believing in Gematria, Star forts and flat earths.

Cute how you insist on separating the capitalist and the communist when they share the exact same goals and methodologies, hidden behind false public doctrine. What difference between satanism and christianity, both of which are Judaic in origin? Nazis were socialists, by the way, right there in the name… Peace.

Paranoid Goy , are their any more misconceptions and falsehoods you can push in this one paragraph?

Capitalists and Communists share exactly the same goals? While both are completely corrupt systems, they are polar opposite in what their goals are. McBains Nazi-Commies eh? Ridiculous.

Christianity and Satanism are Judaic? Thanks for the pointless trivia. Non-sequitur.

Nazi’s were Socialists? Your general knowledge is quite poor. Even tried Google instead of listening to far-right echo chambers? The Nazi’s were Fascists. A right-wing government, not left-wing. They were about as Socialist as the Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea are Democratic.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but both the right and left do bad things. Every government of any system.

With all the respect you feel you deserve, friend, I apologise for my poor mastery of English. Communism and globalism and capitalism and zionism all aim for the total ownership of earth, and they all dream of ruling with the “iron sceptre” or as I call it, the ferrous dick of the gods. Right-and-left is declared zionist tactic of divide-and-rule.
Nazi Fascists? Use a dictionary, not the biased liberals at Google, and look up ‘fascist’, you may find it means other than you think. It’s like you calling me, an Anarch, neo-Nazi. Those are curses you were taught to throw at dissenters to the ‘official narrative’. I do not “believe in” the Protocols, it’s just that, in about 25 pages, the entire structure and purpose of modern economics/political theory is perfectly and provably correctly written down. I care not who wrote it, but it ends with this:
“… we shall answer every question with a promise of future economic growth, and every criticism with a charge of anti-Semitism…” Can you see why I am not getting angry with you? I want you to go read the Protocols, it will free your mind something wonderful, then maybe you can start offering solutions, instead of ad hominem criticisms.
The only thing to fear about the so-called pandemic, is the vaccines, and stripping your pension off ‘the Market’ when They decide to foreclose everything. It’s in the Protocols!

Communism and globalism and capitalism and zionism all aim for the total ownership of earth

No, they don’t, that is just paranoid fantasy. Evidence free rubbish.

Right-and-left is declared zionist tactic of divide-and-rule.

Zionists don’t have the power you think they have. Once there is no need for oil in the Middle East, Israel will be eaten by its neighbours. AIPAC might donate enormous sums to the left and right, but so do other lobbyist groups.

Use a dictionary, not the biased liberals at Google, and look up ‘fascist’, you may find it means other than you think.

Lol, you mean, keep looking until it provides a definition that reinforces your biases? I provided caution. Fascism, while having some overlapping ideals as Communism, Fascism especially the version I cited being Nazism has always been considered right-wing. I know the game. Blame every pejorative on your enemy.

I want you to go read the Protocols

You give them too much credit and put too much weight on it. Additionally, you seem to not know that The protocols of Zion was a hoax. It was entirely fabricated.

The only thing to fear about the so-called pandemic, is the vaccines

While I believe the media is hyping this virus to hysteria levels, it does exist and is dangerous in its worst form. I guarantee you will not doubt science and beg for help should you contract it. And you are anti-vax as well? Diseases that used to wipe out millions were prevented by vax I’m sorry. Anti-vaxxers can simply start their own emergency department or go to Africa and show us how they prevent the virus or mitigate its effects. As usual, I’ll enjoy the sound of crickets.

Bob, relax brother. There really is no Conspiracy, just cultivated dissent. All your retorts are supposed opposites of my statements, standard ad hominem against the basket of deplorables. If you really want me to supply you with extensive arguments on my views, please visit my site. No, I allow no comments, life is too short to defend myself against people who get off on calling me names.
But, if you explain to me exactly what is fraudulent about the Protocols, I’ll appreciate it. What, Bob, exactly, does that charge of “fraud” mean? “There was no such meeting” is the most puerile of attempts at denial, but even if true, calling a treatise by name of a protocol still does not imply fraud. WHAT’S THE FRAUD, BOB? Ditto for the rest of your rant.

I know. It’s not me going on with one-world government shite and Jewish conspiracies, it’s you.

standard ad hominem

I don’t think it means what you think it means. Because I have nowhere attacked you personally. Whereas you from the outset said “bro, you are obviously liberal”. Talk about inverse of reality.

against the basket of deplorables

.

Sorry, not a fan of Hillary, Obama or any Democrats either. I view the Democrats and Republicans as two sides of the same coin and one political cartel furthering the needs of billionaires. The foreign policy stays the same no matter who the party or leader is.

But, if you explain to me exactly what is fraudulent about the Protocols, I’ll appreciate it.

Errr, you mean to say you have based so much of the premise of your present life on a hoax and you didn’t bother to check into it? You have believed it all this time, because what? Some neo-Nazi group told you it’s true? Too funny. Poor guy. Anyways, have a look at these links. It was created by Russian secret police:

No-one defending me? he’s quoting the NYtimes at me!
If you think the history of something is more important than the content, oh well.
The test for something is repeatable effects and prediction of future effect given starting parameters. The Protocols pass both tests. I don’t give a fig who wrote it when, especially when my stated enemy tries to ‘disappear’ it by calling anyone who reads it mentally deficient.
And no, I’m an acoiitheist (sic), so I don’t ‘believe’, I observe and sythesize.

No, it hasn’t. You are employing wishful thinking here. No different than believing in religious text and trying to claim that events happening now, have been described in the bible. Same scam. You’ve been duped and you fell for it due to cognitive bias.

No-one defending me? he’s quoting the NYtimes at me!

Actually, I quoted 3 separate sources in case you had a problem with one and singled one out as I predicted you would. There are 3 citations there, so myth effectively busted. You are free to continue to believe in it though and fairies at the bottom of the garden and Harry Potter.

Each news organization is different how they express their views and opinions, just like people. I prefer to avoid questionable sources on both ends of the spectrum. If I happen to read a questionable source I fact check the best I can with other information provided online. Disabled alerts so when others pass through and make comments I won’t be receiving comments well into the future.

One would hope people knew enough about the guardian to not bother quoting them except for education purposes SOLELY as examples of socialism/commi, faux morality, virtue signalling, downright nastyness, lying, lying to disguise islam, etc etc etc

These “experts” offer platitudes and little relevant data and no annotation, but Admin1 requires that readers offer proof of their comments. The discussion of the mortality rate is important , but the key issue is the hospitalization rate which the “experts” offer no solution for.

No one is saying unsourced posts are going to be routinely removed, but we are warning that they could be if requests to substantiate are persistently ignored. No one is in a position to bring their credentials to the table BTL, and I think these measures are fair under the circumstances.

I found it in about 30 seconds. It’s right there, all over the web. I saw it in last week on another thread here, ATL and then BTL and had never seen it in US so I searched and found: “Above The Line and Below The Line.”

Which web are you using? The non-sticky kind?

(I still don’t have a crystal clear sense of the meaning, but am arriving contextually, since Yanks are perrenially below the line, divided as we are “by a common language.”

Amazing how internationally prestigious and academically discerning institutions all hired these “experts’ to fill important, long term and productive positions, while your laser intelligence sees right through their “platitudes” and lack of data.

Or maybe The WHO and EU who demanded borders stay open and travel unrestricted all the way through February and coronavirus infected not be stigmatised.
Also the WHO said the mortality rate would run at 4% yet we know it is less than 1% when more widespread testing takes place and that figure is likely much lower still when we take account of how many people will have had the virus and remain healthy and untested including millions of children and that just 12% of CV-19 deaths in Italy actually list coronavirus as cause of death and where the average age is around 80 and where the majority of deaths were of people who had at least 2 other chronic diseases.

People like you are incapable of critical thought, you are mere drones regurgitating the mainstream narrative even where that narrative has already been debunked by reality.
You are a clear and present danger to free society and the nation state.

Mainstream narrative? Me? I was responding to someone above named Janck who was scoffing at the people who’s views are represented on this page (which I fully support) and called them “experts” in quotations. That person accused them of spewing “platitudes” and my response was directed at him. I don’t know why my comment ended up on it’s own and not in Janck’s thread, but you have completely misunderstood that and vented your anger in the wrong place.

Way riskier. Maybe we should block off and quarantine all the freeways (of the planet) until we’ve flattened the curve of motorist deaths.

Once the curve has been flattened to near null, or nil, we can all start driving again. It will be SO much safer, see.

Oh, but then there’s the sidestreets. We’ll have to close them until the curve is flattened for vehicular accidents there, too.

(I’m sitting in my car, Saturday, the boardwalk in Newport Beach CA. has just been closed for the weekend, which has never happened before, since the year it was built, long before I was born. Again, temporary, with sandwich board signs, “Now is not the time for tourism.” A dissident and thankless concept, since the whole town markets mostly tourism.)

And when the curve is flattened for the virus, if ever, will it persist?

Your remarks about flattening the curve of motorist deaths reveal your misunderstanding of what that means. Motorist deaths (or otherwise, the accidents which lead to them) do not increase exponentially, as if one accident would engender two more, etc. It is the rate of new infections which must be slowed, so that the number of people getting sick all at once does not overwhelm our health care system. Even at a low death rate, when thousands are sick at the same time, people die because there is no hospital room for them, etc.

Really? No Scheiss Sherlock. With all due respect, I can’t believe how, ah, dense a non-comparison of a comparison that is. Are you feeling all right? Maybe you should check into a hospital or something. Go flatten that curve.

Or if that doesn’t add up as arithmetic, do it “inversely”.

Or just socially distance this.

In any event, you obviously have never driven the 405 in LA. All havoc there is clearly exponential. See?

BESIDES, AS MANY EXPERTS HERE HAVE POINTED OUT, A HELLUVA LOT OF PEOPLE GOT SICK ALL AT ONCE WITH THE 2009 PANDEMIC, AND MEDIA DIDN’T WHINE ABOUT OVERWHELMING.

Excellent comment. Govt (in Aust) make it clear self-isolation/lockdown are about not overwhelming our hospital system & resources, NOT deaths. To say nothing of our overwhelming our hard working, highly skilled Medical staff…. And yes, more deaths will occur if our health system is overloaded…. it’s really quite simple, as you have written so clearly.

If this is overloading any health system, it is a more a sign of the poor quality and insufficiency of that system than of a system overwhealmed by some great enemy. Doctors make too many mistakes to be given this sort of power or discretion over all people!

Yes actually was considering signing up to test vaccines you are then after a few weeks exposed to the virus. Seeing as there is a pretty high chance they won’t work you are basically just exposing yourself to the virus. Only reason I didn’t was the trial was oversubscribed so they didn’t need more guinea pigs, sadly because it was really good money.

What are you talking about?! Each of these doctors have plied their credentials and even sited the communication, with OH MY gawd! Yes! the Washington Times!! As well as their being peer reviewed authors in medical journals. What, you want their pound of flesh as well??!!

These are concise presentations by actual epidemiologists, scientists, and doctors, as a response to and opposed to hysterical crisis ‘reporting’ by news presenters and many in governments. There are another 10 opinions in another article on this site.
If you wish to delve into the thousands of pages of statistics there’s plenty of that available.
Anybody who knows what they’re talking about is saying the same thing, and they are puzzled and concerned about what is going on, and the reason for creating this unprecedented mania and panic.

They have been fear mongering for two months, greatly exaggerating the situation in order to support the coup d’état orchestrated by our government that wants to sell us to the ESM.

Official numbers from the ISS (Istituto Superiore di Sanità) say that only 12 people have died without a previous illness, many had 3+ pathologies and the average age is 79 years.

Furthermore, the entire Italian ruling class is involved in cutting our Health System and corruption is going on even now. Just think that the former president of the Lombardy region (where many cases are located) has been sentenced to refund €47.5 million! And he belongs to the opposition to the national government.

In my region, Marche, the current president closed 13 (thirteen) hospitals in the last 5 years.

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Gregorio Jordan-Panama

May 24, 2020 1:40 AM

The reason why many governments have failed to combat SARS-CoV-2, first they closed airports too late as the virus travels by plane. Another reason the world government authorities in the different countries do not allow themselves to be properly advised by the scientific health authorities and the population ignores the scientific confinements of the quarantine. They also need to create massive serological tests for the detection of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The follow-up and mapping case by case of the sick and those contacted by this infection. Food security is another factor that must be guaranteed in different countries in these cases of quarantine. And finally, try not to collapse the local health system. In my country, there are no massive tests for the population, but scientific measurement variables were used. The recovery of the infected has reached a margin of 50%.The final vaccine for the cure of SARS-CoV-2 is under study but there is no affirmative conclusion. Greetings from Panama City..

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lon

May 22, 2020 3:16 PM

A virus threat for sure, Dangerous and Killing, but used as a means to bring deep drastic economic, financial and political changes all over the world, let alone Freedom of speech and action. as the virus spread death , fear also spread . So deceptive. All need to be brave to face this era.

would be nice to get an update on these opinions now the more time has passed.

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kigouya

Apr 27, 2020 9:45 AM

would be nice to get some updates to their opinions to see if any of them have changed.

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Linsi

Apr 23, 2020 3:41 PM

Dr Shiva is providing very good, science-backed, information about the hysterical panic-mongering of the COVID19 virus. Including possible reasons behind the apparent wish for some to control the global population and wish to destroy our world economies….here’s the link where he explains it all:

END THE STUPIDITY: “The present invention has been devised to attenuate any bacteria, virus (including the AIDS HIV and COVID-19 viruses) parasites… NONINVASIVELY – Virutron.

Search for Virutron. NO NEED FOR LOCKDOWN!

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Sir Loin of Steak

Apr 22, 2020 2:51 AM

Yes indeed!
But these experts aren’t running interference for evil banks & their winged monkeys who are responsible for the economic crash we are seeing so they didn’t make it to the main stream media.
Why? Well because TPTB are hoping that everyone will blame this Coronavirus for the crash instead of having the torch wielding villagers come to burn them at the stake for what they’ve done.
I agree with all these experts. I actually thought the very same thing.
I might not be an expert on much but I can smell a really big fat rat.
This is the strangest, wildest reaction on a world wide basis that I’ve ever seen.
It’s so radical & extreme they make right wing, left wing & Muslim extremists seem mild in comparison.
I never ever wanna hear a government or media ever call anyone else extremist ANYTHING after this one because they’re really taken the cake. The huge, power hungry, ugly, incompetent, stupid, totatlitarian, authoritarian cake.
I never want to hear them ever call anyone a conspiracy theorists either coz if these guys are right ( & I think they are) then this is one really huge actual conspiracy.

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Paula

Apr 21, 2020 10:49 PM

Too many non-medical people who have suddenly become medical experts spreading fear & misinformation. I hope more genuine scientists will start too speak out now.

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BBoutry

Apr 21, 2020 8:16 PM

Hello, you may add to your list an interview with Dr Anders Tegnell, the current state epidemiologist of Sweden

The Stanford Group has just published a seroprevalence study conducted in early April 2020. They report:
“These prevalence estimates represent a range between 48,000 and 81,000 people infected in Santa Clara County by early April, 50-85 times more than the number of confirmed cases.”
This means that the infection mortality rate is 50-85 times lower than the published numbers.
Full paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1

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Feisal Alykhan

Apr 18, 2020 8:30 AM

Our editors & admins are based around the globe, in North America, Britain, and Southern and Eastern Europe. If this statement from yor website is true then how is it that the POV of folks from the non-white world is not represented? If you say around the globe then why do you refocus on the white world? Finally, who finances your site? Thank you for your frank reply.

There’s even more specialists questioning the narrative in this article… what if the whole thing was to keep us from rioting once we figured out the economy was collapsing way before they cooked up the Corona House Arrest idea…

This article has not aged well in the two weeks since it was published. In fact, it was dangerously out of date even then. Here’s a brief chronology*:

March 14: In the US, 49 people have died of the new coronavirus, and another 7 will die today.

March 22: In the US, 298 have died of the new coronavirus, and another 110 will die today. Globes publishes Prof. Yoram Lass’s statement (relying on 8-day old data) that “In the US…so far 40-50 people have died of the coronavirus.”

March 24: In the US, 519 people have died of the new coronavirus, and another 162 will die today. Off Guardian publishes this article, including Prof. Lass’s statement quoted above, now based on 10-day-old data and off by a factor of 10.

April 2: In the US, 4,746 people have died of the new coronavirus, and another 1,075 will die today. Prof. Lass’s data quoted in this article is now off by a factor of 100.

April 7: The US death toll has doubled in the last five days, exceeding 10,000. In my state of New York, about 600 people have died from the coronavirus on each of the last three days.

With all due respect, maybe it’s time to start listening more to the scientists and journalists who saw all of this coming, and less to the contrarians who denied it (or the dwindling number who will continue denying it) even in the face of the continuously growing evidence.

New York is the only place where the deaths seem alarming but given the peak levels of residential density, it makes sense, and given the ratio of deaths to gen pop. Not alarming after all, is it.

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Rick

Apr 7, 2020 2:40 PM

I did not surprise me in the least of China’s initial reaction to the outbreak such as building a hospital in ten days and strict lock downs given that Wuhan had just hosted the world military games, I believe they would have been justified in treating it as a possible Biological weapon! That thought would have lingered once the news from Iran started coming out soon after.

I clicked the link, but the video was taken down. They’re burning the books!

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Shana

Apr 5, 2020 2:05 AM

Refreshing to see experts agree the sky is not falling. It is a bad virus, but is not Smallpox or the bubonic plague…then I would be scared. Thank you for getting their input.

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wolf

Apr 3, 2020 11:58 PM

i expect this list of off-narrative experts to double every 4 days like the virus. please update or link to longer list.

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Anthony Roberts

Apr 2, 2020 3:32 AM

Supporting viewers of the news will tell you the world won’t be informed without them, but the thing is, the real issue is media itself. Most people will tell you that media is something that can motivate people. What they fail to point out is that the media has become a stepping stone of deceit, if you know what I mean. All these supposed “deadly crises” are exaggerated for the purpose of fraudulent profit when everyone loses their freedoms.

Is it possible that the Abrahamic churches have more influence (and not in a good way, at that) on politics despite having little power?

Unfortunately, no english CC but these experts say practicaly the same as Wolfgan Wodarg

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Isidro West

Apr 1, 2020 4:45 PM

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andrew

Mar 31, 2020 11:21 PM

If 3000 people die in a year from a virus that is a stastic …If 3000 die in a week that is a problem..A BIG PROBLEM

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Niculae Cojocaru

Mar 31, 2020 8:50 AM

I totally understand the logic o f the dozen experts. They are all in the age bracket loved by this virus, they all have resources to isolate themselves from the contaminating environment for a limited period of time. The best for them is that the world go through as quickly as possible, die who may die, the rest get herd immunisation, then they can safely get out of hiding. Do not close the schools, do not stop working! Has any of those ‘experts’ volunteered to do shifts in hospitals? Lip service, that-s all they can offer!

I do agree! I am a former scientist and medical professional (for the past decade working as holistic therapist) I am not famous and I have no public appearance or reputation. But with my background and knowledge I can only agree with these experts. I was delighted to find these experts statements finally being spread more! Just this morning I wrote a blog on my website https://innerspirithealing.wordpress.com/2020/03/30/corona-pan-ic-demia-just-wondering/

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Joe McQuack

Mar 30, 2020 10:26 AM

Iranian doctor Mansoureh Tajik has many interesting things to say, and is highly critical of “social diatancing”.

The head of the WHO is a war criminal, communist rebel, and not a doctor. A strange one to be running the world right now. Look it up!!

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Lynn

Mar 30, 2020 1:34 AM

From Tx…The numbers simply do not warrant a shutdown. it’s a virus, if you get sick stay home.. this isn’t some “Magical Death virus”. 99% of people who get infected will have minor discomfort, develop a Natural Immunity to the strain. Tx population : 29,087,070 People infected 0.009% (2792 ) People dead 0.0001% (37) Meanwhile over 40 million people have been infected with influenzia , 26 million went to the hospital, 700,000 hospitalized, and 60,000 deaths. and not a single peep from the media. They are using Fear/Scare tactics to destroy the economy and your Rights… If there were Ever a time to turn off the Fake News and do your Own Homework, it is Now.. Don’t Panic,or Fear… Arm yourselves with Knowledge. Many Governors,Mayors etc are being led like Sheep because they Don’t Know anything but what the Media is saying, and They are Lying (the Media)… Be safe,Stay Clean, Be Prudent but Not Blind. Here’s the actual Data : https://corona.help/country/united-states/state/texas

If we didn’t take the actions we did guess what will happen? It will spread, it will infect old people and they will die. So either we don’t lock down and save the economy while filling our hospitals with high risk and old people and most just die anyway or we lock down, slow the virus, lower the number of patients coming in at once.

Another thing just look at how many people under the age of 65 have underlying medical conditions that would count as high risk. It would be a massacre if we did nothing.

Perhaps it’s just an alternative opinion that we should all at least just consider, and yet… once all this is said and done, the data will actually reveal wether complete lockdowns benefitted western nations or actually made things worse. My opinion is There’s pro’s and con’s of both sides, but if you can’t at least consider an alternative opinion, or at least see the many great points highlighted in this article, plus the many other articles highlighting the discrepancies in some of the numbers being reported, then perhaps, you can continue to line up for your daily dose of fear porn from the main stream media.
This whole global situation and it’s ensuing media coverage wreaks of the same fear and panic build up, so reminiscent of the days after 9/11. If we are not careful this could be used politically to steer public opinion and fear in such a way that on the surface might seem logical, but may in fact being very bad policy especially long term. That doesn’t mean you should then suggest someone is a conspiracy theorist or some type of crazy guy. Especially since in the years after 9/11 it became known that the war created was all based on lies. However, that didn’t change the fact, that many western nations had to loose many freedoms apparently for the greater good of national security, irregardless of the dodgy links between western nations and some dodgy terrorist groups.

What Osterholm is saying is currently the Dutch handling of things. We are not closing everything down but the call for a lockdown is getting louder since more people know someone who died. I hope we will continue this way. And that people take their personal responsibility.
I have my own small business and life is stressful because I have about 30% of my normal income.
My outlet is working out intensely. The health effects of no income and not being able to get outdoors would be severe.
Social distancing is one thing. Locking down everything is just crazy.
Osterholm said this btw. (so you don’t have to scroll up)

[T]he best alternative will probably entail letting those at low risk for serious disease continue to work, keep business and manufacturing operating, and “run” society, while at the same time advising higher-risk individuals to protect themselves through physical distancing and ramping up our health-care capacity as aggressively as possible. With this battle plan, we could gradually build up immunity without destroying the financial structure on which our lives are based.

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Rob

Mar 29, 2020 2:06 PM

A couple of points here, the lockdowns etc are because the west was totally unprepared (having been warned for decades) and reacted too late with possibly too little (USA).
S Korea made a very rapid effort to do massive testing and isolation of positive cases. They have not had to shut down the whole country. Their infection numbers are much lower and their healthcare systems have not been unduly overloaded.
So testing and isolation do work, they just have to be done on a massive scale.
I think it is clear that left to it’s own devices COVID19 would cause a high death toll and because of the way exponential curves work, the majority of cases arrive in the few days before the peak. This alone causes system failure.
Don’t forget, COVID19 is new to the human respiratory tract and thus a much higher % of people with less than ideal immune systems will succumb in some way, possibly fatally.
None of this is pointed out by any of those contributors.
Imagine say 40 million infected in UK. Infection doubles every 2/3 days. So it takes about a week to go from 5 million to 40 million, if only a small % require hospitalisation, that is still a huge number and that is why the systems will fail.

Rob – the actual stats don’t support some of your assertions I’m afraid. Covid 19 is in fact, the symptoms and disease of SARS Covid-2. CV-19 is not a strong virus or one with a high kill rate – far lower in fact than flu. Most people are asympmtomatic and most people who contract it display minor or mild symptoms only. It is the frail elderly and those with 2 or more underlying long term serious and chronic health conditions that get affected by it.

Yes the COVID-19 virus doesn’t kill as much as say influenza or other things but that’s not the point. The point is this virus spreads quicker and imagine the strain on the already strained system. Have you ever gone to hospital and it’s quiet? Always wait times in a&e, not enough beds in some wards or enough staff and many, many other problems. The system struggles on a good year, now throw in a new virus. What do you think would happen if we just left it? Didn’t go on lockdown? People who would need help wouldn’t be able to get it, if it was to do with the virus or not which causes a high death rate, maybe not solely from COVID-19 but in effect the virus has on the nhs and all the other hospital systems in the world.

Adam, the bed situation in the NHS is because for years now, they have been systematically reducing bed numbers to the extent that we are now second from the bottom in the world for the number of NHS beds per capita population. We have the lowest number of doctors and nurses at the frontline in the whole developed world. In the meantime, the tiers of managers and administrators has grown exponentially to the extent that I think it is now fair to say there are more managers and administrators than beds, doctors and nurses. Editor of the Independent questioned the Orange Buffoon and the Chief of the NHS on this – and neither could refute the evidence – mumbling something like they would put more on the frontline in the next 5-10 years. Remember this, it was only in December that the NHS said they were overburdened to a critical extent because of winter illnesses, they say this every single year – yet they do nothing year on year to make contingency plans for this. Do you think, really think, that the CV-19 is having any greater impact on the NHS than any average year, absolutely not. Do you think that the £40m pounds given my May in December 2018 to ease the so called ‘winter crisis’ went in creating more beds, more doctor more nursing posts? Hell no, it didn’t. Guess what though, it was spent on creating more bean counters, more managers and more administrators. Set CV-19 aside for a moment, week on week, month on month, year on year the NHS always grab the headlines and appear to be perpetually in crisis yet do nothing about it. They never make any managerial or administrative redundancies and Lord knows, at least 60% of them could be axed and wouldn’t be missed. The truth is they don’t know what they do with the £140bn worth of public money they get a year. Don’t forget, the Blair Government allocated hundreds of millions of pounds in the Modernisation Agenda which was allocated to introduce modern treatment and equipment in line with Europe, put more Doctors, consultants, nurses and GPs on the front line and improve early diagnosis and treatment. In addition to which, they also £300m of public money to bring outcomes for stomach, pancreatic and liver cancer in line with Europe, who have a huge success rate compared to us. Five years later, a senior spokesman for the NHS, interviewed on Radio 4 when asked to demonstrate the extra number of patients who were treated and diagnosed early, what new treatment had been adopted from Europe and the world that had proven to be successful and what new and highly effective new equipment had been purchased to achieve the desired outcomes, it became apparent that not a penny of that money had been spent on what it was allocated for. Not one extra patient had been diagnosed and treated, not one piece of new specialist equipment had been purchased, there was no improvement in outcomes and so on and so forth. Where did the money go – just as with the Modernisation Agenda money, it went on giving Consultants massive, and I mean massive, pay rises, technicians such as OTs and Physios were given massive regradings and massive pay rises, tiers and tiers of new managers were created and so on and so forth. So, when you talk about the CV-19 overwhelming the NHS – it is not and will not because every year, every month, every day, they are always bleating on about how treating x, y z or any condition is costing them billions of pounds of public money. Thing is, they don’t have any proper financial accountability systems so they haven’t got a clue where there money is spent, they haven’t even got a clue about how many people they treat for what diseases. Less sympathy please and more facts. CV-19 is just another headline the NHS can grab for an unashamed increase in their funding which will go nowhere other than on themselves and not the patients. I didn’t applaud our so called NHS heroes – the front line medical staff are treated like shit by the Managers and are not respected. I reserve my respect for them and their dedication not for the rest of the NHS.

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GEORGE GALLO

Mar 29, 2020 11:10 AM

First, I wanna say that it’s cool that we can ‘thumb up or down’ the comments.

I should have stopped reading after reading this- “Below is our list of twelve medical experts whose opinions on the Coronavirus outbreak contradict the official narratives of the MSM, and the memes so prevalent on social media.”

How can you have a counterpoint when you haven’t established a ‘point?’ Define the “official narrative(s) of …… wait, wait, ……. Define who/what is ‘Main Stream Media’ first. For example, if MSM is, media one doesn’t agree with, that’s too arbitrary to have any meaning. And then, what ‘so prevalent memes?’ (I don’t know if you are aware of this, but memes don’t really stand for much of anything.) Then, getting back to “official narratives,” is there really a consensus that no one told me about? Putting this article through the shredder and then filing under ‘Propaganda.’ Your premise is all too vague, along with the responses of the ‘experts.’

‘I should have stopped reading…’
So you didn’t, presumably?
What did you think of the actual opinions of the quoted medical experts? Did you find them interesting and provocative, and in contrast to the opinions you are hearing on most of the Broadacst TV stations, or broadly in line with those TV opinions?

Sorry. Tried to respond 4 days ago, but somehow the page got ‘locked up,’ and my post got lost in the ether. So real quick; yeah, made me think. I had a longer post, but I’m too brain dead to recreate it.

George –
Could there be a balanced version of the truth between what experts are saying and what media is reporting? Should media drive the message? Probably not.

When you have a question about the mechanics of your automobile, do you consult the local newspaper reporters? Or perhaps you call the local television news station? It seems more logical to consult an auto mechanic … possibly one w/certifications.

BTW, I realize the absurdity of this analogy. However, it is my opinion we should be listening to experts … period. Unfortunately, their messages (just like it is with most messengers) are filtered by media. And media, mostly, delivers what SELLS.

Whatever the reality one thing is certain, I am a hospital facility manager of 15 years and this is turning the entire medical system upside down.
The fear in the staff is palpable, my budget is blown to smithereens, my supply chain is in tatters unable to respond.. it is incomprehensible what is happening to the healthcare system.

[From Admin: These are unsubstantiated claims. Claims of this nature should be able to be corroborated, or they serve no purpose accept to scare. Thank you]

@Admin… so he should post a copy of his employment contract as a hospital facility manager, some screenshots of his financial and logistics software? I don’t think you can call someone talking about their daily working experience and ‘unsubstantiated claim’.

Even unsubstantiated, it seems the claims (fear, budget, supply chain) are not direct results of the virus but from the news and government actions.

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DARRYL POTTER

Mar 28, 2020 11:37 PM

There is also a Dr Andrew Kaufman in America speaking out about the handling by media & the overreaching & draconian actions being taken his government in respect of covid19
I found what he said of great interest

You may get better search results in the future by using a browser other than Chrome, a search engine other than Google. I recently began using Brave as my default browser, DuckDuckGo as my search engine. I am sure there are others. Google/YouTube and Facebook/Instagram often block or make controversial content difficult to find, if they don’t delete it entirely (often the case) Before I got laid off due to this irrational panicking, I worked in a video production/marketing company. I had nothing to do with digital marketing, but we are a small office, so I was a few feet away from our digital team. We primarily market for health care providers–dental offices, chiropractors, etc. I cannot tell you how many times I heard the digital team saying a clients ad or video got pulled because it used controversial words (stem cell as opposed to regenerative therapy, or immune system vs. vaccination.

Excellent posing of a questionable situation. Putting being hit by a car, aside for a moment, if the virus made a person more susceptible to succumbing to another disease, then the virus certainly did not help. So, let’s say a person with a heart condition got the virus and subsequently died of heart failure, soon after. If they did not have the virus, would they have lived another day, or month or years? Difficult to know or speculate. One thing is certain, the virus didn’t contain any vitamins or a cure.

Exactly correct. If you find a dead mangled body at the bottom of a cliff, and there is a gun on the body, it should not go down as a gun death.
I am in Bulgaria.
The head of the National Response team against COVID-19 is Major-General, Prof. Ventsislav Mutafchiyski.
“The general explained that the statistics kept in Bulgaria for coronavirus deaths is independent of the accompanying diseases of the patients and if there is identified COVID-19, it is considered as the leading cause of the death.”