The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon

Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.

II. Make her jealous

Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.

III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

IV. Don’t play by her rules

If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

V. Adhere to the golden ratio

Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.

VI. Keep her guessing

True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.

VII. Always keep two in the kitty

Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary

Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.

IX. Connect with her emotions

Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

X. Ignore her beauty

The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.

XI. Be irrationally self-confident

No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.

XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses

In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.

XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.

XIV. Fuck her good

Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.

XV. Maintain your state control

You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

XVI. Never be afraid to lose her

You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.

***

The closer you follow the letter of these commandments, the easier you will find and keep real, true unconditional love and happiness in your life.

The most masculine of Male Endeavors are those that exist within the world of logic. (I am not saying that World of Warcraft is the height of said endeavors) Just look at any number of Linebackers in the NFL. They cry all the time. Their emotions are so often right on the surface; just like a girl.

Scientists, Engineers, Mathematicians, Programmers, etc. These fields are absolutely dominated by men. Men who do not cry or get dramatic. That is for a reason.

And, these guys get no groupies.

Game is about understanding what girls react to. It is not about being a better man or being more masculine.

If a man’s Alpha enough to have a couple of women in “reserve” he doesn’t need any of this advice in the first place.

I have known more than a few guys that knew how to approach and flirt, yet, did not know how to keep a woman. So, they always had a few back-ups, but, they were never that happy about “relying” on them.

1. Fuck her good. This is an immutable call to action for all men. (Note: May require cunnilingus.)

2. All the rest can be boiled down to this: Don’t care too much. State control, ignoring her beauty, making her jealous — all of these are outcomes of just not really caring too much about what she thinks.

For real! As I see it these commandments have embedded within them the basic tenents of manhood and it shocks me that so many guys are missing the fundamental qualities that make them men, not just players.

Eventually I expect a cult to form around roissy in which his acolytes poison themselves with laced pussy juice created from mixtures of zima, fromaldahyde, cyanide and viagra after feminist conspirators who subsist on the blood of cats find a way to outlaw polyamory, and institute a law that requires men be enslaved during marriage and castrated after divorce for the benefit of womynkind.

Best post yet, Roissy. You could hand this list of commandments to a game neophyte and, if he was even moderately insightful, he could derive the correct course of action for virtually any encounter with a woman on any level. Well done.

You’d figure that those commandments would be like a default behavior in all men, not just a province of skilled casanovas. And yet that’s not so. In fact, many — most — men take the exactly opposite approach. Why is that?

Dizzy, what ‘jerk’ behaviors from Roissy’s date are enumerated here, other than #2, “make her jealous”? Is jealousy a jerk behavior? Is it only jerk when it is done on purpose? If a man or woman uses jealousy on a subconscious level, is that person a jerk, or is cognition and commission required?

Brilliant, and every bit as applicable to marriage as to the single life. Roissy, you talk about unconditional love as if that’s some kind of end goal and I say the rules of the game do not change! I’m a little older and am surrounded by guys who, 10-15 years ago, were great alpha players and scored the hottest chick by doing all of the above, only to be worn down by years and years of the girl’s emotional game. Women never stop playing — that emotional messiness is a tactic to wear down the very strength and virility that attracted them to the guy in the first place. Like picking the best wild horse and taming it to ride. The stamina they have for the long fight is unreal — years and years and years. It isn’t over until you’re driving her to the spa and holding her purse. Then they’ll laugh at you with their girlfriends and humiliate you in front of your children. Keep playing, men, never relax your guard for a minute! By playing the game all your life, you’re working hard to be the man she loves rather than the man she thinks she wants.

#26 Kevin
Very astute observation:
“Women never stop playing — that emotional messiness is a tactic to wear down the very strength and virility that attracted them to the guy in the first place.”

Seems like a lot of guys think getting the girl means they can finally relax and move on to more important things -not so, you gotta stick to your guns just like you did to get her to begin with.
And if that seems like too much work – that’s why marriage or long term relationships don’t appeal to many men.

THIS IS SO MONEY. It is one of the great triumphs of modern capitalism: let a thousand status hierarchies bloom! Unlike in hunter gatherer days, there isn’t one status hierarchy to climb and that’s that, there are endless hierarchies to climb, endless things to specialise in. Roissy’s good buddy, the economist Tyler Cowen, has been pushing this idea for a while now, and the effect this has on human happiness and potential is mind-boggling. Guys can rise to the top of whatever work/hobby hierarchies there are, or at least portray to women that yes, he is in THE PROCESS of climbing to the top. There are obvious caveats: females aren’t impressed by computer game related status, even though leading 30 guys from around the globe in World of Warcraft to quickly and efficiently take down an enemy is actually an impressive accomplishment – I think this will change in the future. But for now, I’ll bet the college ultimate frisbee champ gets some pretty good action.

I could prattle on and say that Roissy’s liar, but I remember back in my engineering school days that there was a girl who thought my encyclopedic knowledge of New York City’s subway system was cool. Mind you, she would probably rank very low on the Roissy scale of beauty, so it would be pointless to discuss her any further.

Regardless, your statement presumes that one actually has natural talents in the first place…

The overall problem with these commandments is that the average guy doesn’t have the requisite discipline to put them into practice and ensure that he follows them 100% of the time. The average guy is always looking for the most direct way to get laid, and doing what a woman says would appear (incorrectly) to be the most direct path to this goal.

WTF. at this rate I’ll have to date a I’ll have to end up with a coma victim so I wont have to deal with the games…. but I’ll still be able to sleep with her…. but then I’d have to shave her junxs myself…… ewwwwww

I have seen alphas suffer crushing personal setbacks–generally involving their jobs, as this is where many man derive their self worth–and suddenly, their swagger is lost. Being over confident is impossible, for they are defeated, broken shells.

Even the hardest of men will fall in love eventually; in a weak moment “I love you” will pass those lips…first.

Trying to follow these commandments is like trying to fight being human and actually feeling things. I know feelings are scary, guys. I hate my own, but resistance is futile. You will all capitulate.

Don’t be surprised if tactics and manipulation attract the like. Take an honest look back at the women you’ve dated and you can learn something about yourself.

Techniques can work sort term because they send ‘high value male’ signals. Fake-it-til-you-make-it is a start, but indulging in it sets you up for self administered spankings later. The real deal is ‘making’ it.

Lastly, too concerned about alphaness = beta.
You can live life the way you choose without reducing attraction or hurting your manhood.

Yes, Lemmonex. In fact, an alpha doesn’t have to fall in love to make himself look ridiculous. Just being too arrogant, and too eager for sex, even the casual kind, can lead him to serious humiliation. Look at what happened to Hugh Grant when he had his encounter with a street prostitute. Perhaps it didn’t have lasting repercussions for his career, but I bet it cost him a good many sleepless nights – and there are still people who giggle over that incident, many years later. Having a “reserve” didn’t do him much good.

Patrick, but you all DO feel strongly. This is where all this falls apart. All these commandments and games are specifically to control your feelings, act like you don’t care. In an effort to fight your feelings, you have done something very “male”: tried to fix the problem. There ain’t no fixing feelings. They are there and no amount of roissy’s gospel is going to lead you to salvation. You are doomed.

Oooh Lemmonex thank you for elucidating the point! We can control our feelings, that is what makes us men. It takes moral discipline and strength of character, and is very hard to do, but we can, and are in fact called to do so. You’ve just set the battle of the sexes back three hundred years by invoking the supremacy of windy passions over reason.

I have a lot of problems with *some* of the “rules” whose efficacy and usefulness seem pretty doubtful. To me, it seems rationalizing for a bunch of short-term, limited playa mentality who’s lifespan will be quite short. There’s nothing more pathetic than a 45+ playa. See Hugh Grant.

More likely, the screwed up nature of male-female relationships post 1968 or so, seem to be the result of urbanization (Roissy’s observation a week or so was spot on), the pill/condom, and social/economic freedom for women making men disposable or replaceable. Compounded by the beauty industry fooling women into thinking they’ll be young and desirable forever.

[Linemen are very controlled and analytic, they have to be. They’re usually the smartest guys on the field after the QB. As for groupies, I doubt Bill Gates, Bill Joy, Linus Torvalds, or any other “smart guy” has any appreciable amount of groupies. Smartness requires a trade-off in testosterone, and women in today’s cafeteria of men want testosterone and flee from anything that would indicate a guy is smart.]

“Alpha” behavior to me seems merely the result of higher-testosterone, early physical onset of puberty/maturing young men having lots of girls throw themselves at them from an early age. Often this correlates highly with average IQ, instead of higher IQ, and social-motor orientation instead of abstract task-orientation. But, the demands of the professional workplace require that men act like “Betas.” A guy acting like the swaggering football wide receiver (say, T.O. or Pacman Jones or Chad Johnson) outside of the NFL or College is going to get fired and/or arrested. Even a small company workplace won’t tolerate that non-cooperative, too-aggressive macho behavior. [I’ll spilt my comment into my problems with *some* of the rules into a later comment.]

Lemmonex, you’re still not getting it. Because our feelings are so much weaker, men can live their lives without letting those feelings guide their actions the way women do. They don’t require a strong effort to control. Roissy is advocating A+ level feeling control, but most men, even betas already have B level control.

If you act like you don’t care, eventually enough pussy will find you so that you really don’t care.

I. No problem. I agree. HOWEVER, once in a committed, monogamous relationship it is important to say this often unprompted. This tells the woman she’s wanted and loved. As passion cools and companionate love takes over.

II. This will work with some women, often younger, who are competitive with each other. Older (30+) women don’t like it because they often LOSE. Needless to say, it’s poison in a committed relationship.

III. Caveat — in a committed relationship women want to know that family (themselves, your children) will come first. Otherwise, I agree.

IV. Agreed. With the addition that women often seek comfort and solace from an emotionally strong man.

V. Caveat — not applicable in a committed relationship. Surprising your girlfriend with something special “just because” particularly something that requires time and effort tells her she’s loved and “special” above all other women.

VI. Contradicts IV, in a relationship. Agreed in courting, but not in a relationship. PASSION COOLS. But companionate love, over time, can be as strong if not stronger. A woman knowing (in a long-term committed relationship) that without a doubt, her man loves her, takes solace and strength from that and is far less likely to stray than one who has doubts. Since — ALL PASSION COOLS and is replaced by companionate love.

> I have known more than a few guys that knew how to approach and flirt, yet, did not know how to keep a woman

Well I found that above to be pretty obvious for the most part. Maybe I am sort of a natural after all? I sure would not have guessed, maybe I am just the opposite of those guys above. In a relationship I do push pull automatically, if I feel my space invaded, push will invariably follow.

I would add that adding in some occasional bouts of vulnerability ain’t all bad. In part it can be used as a screening device (does she actually love me?) and a similar vein, it helps figure out whether she is any good at nurturing.

Not sure what roaming in emotions really means though.

>Re XII ‘there is a groupie for every male endeavour’

Then how do we find her? And she better be hot.

There is one thing remaining to be discussed WRT to the gifts though. Assume you make a lot more money than she does. Are talking about gifts of comparable value or comparable sacrifice? And how about holiday trips? They are obviously more fun together but what if she cant afford where the guy wants to go?

“Alpha” behavior to me seems merely the result of higher-testosterone, early physical onset of puberty/maturing young men having lots of girls throw themselves at them from an early age. Often this correlates highly with average IQ, instead of higher IQ, and social-motor orientation instead of abstract task-orientation. But, the demands of the professional workplace require that men act like “Betas.” A guy acting like the swaggering football wide receiver (say, T.O. or Pacman Jones or Chad Johnson) outside of the NFL or College is going to get fired and/or arrested. Even a small company workplace won’t tolerate that non-cooperative, too-aggressive macho behavior.

It’s hard to be a man today. To have the most luck one has to be a testosterone-dripping Alpha outside of work and a Beta in the workplace. Not everyone can maintain a “split personality” of that sort.

Sales, BIGLAW superstars, movie stars, and professional athletes can get away with that behavior (Sales practically encourages it) but most people can’t. For as much as Ari Gold embodies stereotypes, the agents and ex-agents I knew stressed that while you had to be confident enough to chat up Michael Ovitz in his heyday, you could never be arrogant or a prick, because that would be death. A client on the downswing can suddenly turn hot, or an assistant to someone can freeze you out. Even in Professional sports someone like T.O. can bounce around a lot costing him money and endorsements, while a guy who cries and is a team player (Farve, Peyton) carves out lucrative endorsements.

I think broadly speaking Roissy is correct in the wooing phase, but a lot of the rules will end in disaster if applied to a steady relationship. I think it’s telling that nearly all the PUA cannot maintain a relationship AND GET DUMPED. Something tells me that PUA stuff simply fails when applied to long-term relationships.

This commandment is brilliant in 2 ways. One, it is true, and useful for game purposes.

But the second, more subtle reason is that it forces a man to consider exactly what IS his purpose in life? To make money and buy stupid shit to gain social proof? Well, that would be making women his mission!

So, strip away all the missions that are indirectly related to getting laid, and all you’re left with are lives dedicated to either reaching enlightenment or improving the world. I’d say that is a pretty good consequence of the self introspection gained from taking this commandment to heart.

> I think broadly speaking Roissy is correct in the wooing phase, but a lot of the rules will end in disaster if applied to a steady relationship. I think it’s telling that nearly all the PUA cannot maintain a relationship AND GET DUMPED. Something tells me that PUA stuff simply fails when applied to long-term relationships.

If you don’t over do it it can help keep interest. You most certainly don’t want to get into game playing/shit testing. Some detachment helps.

We don’t feel as much as you do. Sure, we fall in love but our feelings are rarely as intense as those of a female. It’s easier for us to fight our feelings because they just aren’t that strong.

63 Lemmonex

Just because we don’t agree doesn’t mean I do not “get” the point. You are stating an opinion, I am stating an opinion. It may be your truth, but it sure isn’t mine, Patrick

——————————————————————————
As far back as 1993, I have been in agreement with my mentor’s observation:

He maintained after his research that: “On the whole, exceptional exemptions not with standing, women are creatures of and are ruled by their emotion. Conversely, men are creatures of and ruled by reason, again in the highest majority, some men exepted.”

My own work on this, after exposure to his thought:

After logging close to 3200 hours of IRC and other chatroom logs, self identified males lead statements with: “I Think…” 92% more frequently then Females; with a corresponding symmetry with Females leading statements with: “I Feel..”
at 94.2% higher frequency.

Neuromedicine has proven the reality of biological gender brain development. Male brains are not grown/developed the same way, and do not think like female brains.

Now the nature vs nurture interplay was tested before the days of ultrahigh resolution MRI brain scans.

Huge mistakes were made, They tried to test the hypothosis that if you raised a male as a female, he would learn to always be a women.

This being the most notable failure:

“Gender Study” Victim Boy Raised as a Girl Commits Suicide

WINNIPEG, May 10, 2004 (LifeSiteNews.com) – David Reimer committed suicide last week at the age of 38. Reimer’s parents, after a botched circumcision, were convinced by a Johns Hopkins gender studies specialist to raise the boy as a girl. Dr. John Money believed that gender was a learned trait, and wanted to prove his theory with an ideal test subject:

David was one of a set of identical twins. He was started on female hormone injections and raised as Brenda.

David’s mother, Janet Reimer, said that he would still be alive had it not been for the gender experiment. She blames the doctor for talking them into the sex-change. She described his life: “They wouldn’t let him use the boys’ washroom or the girls. He had to go in the back alley,” she said.

At the age of 14, he was told of his true gender identity, at which time he rebelled, and lived as a boy. He eventually married and became a stepfather to three children.

David’s story became widely known after the publication of a book about his life by author John Colapinto, who wrote

“As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl”.

Reimer went on the Oprah Winfrey show to talk about the issue, in order to prevent the same thing from happening to anyone else.

—————————————————————————-

Bottom line is simply this, by design or evolution, We do not think at all like girls, and vice versa. I think this is great, both for survival and for social reasons.

I really don’t need more people who reason the same way I do. I want other observer perspectives in the search for truth.

{Myopia sucks}

Those with myopia see nearby objects clearly but distant objects appear blurred. More eyes on station observing = greater chance of gaining understanding. Interpreting this observation gains real benefit from a multiple perspective gestalt.

I think that opening a statement with the words “I feel” rather than “I think” says absolutely nothing about the rationality of the person who uses the one in preference to the other.

I’m perfectly willing to accept that in general men and women think and feel differently. That doesn’t mean that women are necessarily more likely to be ruled by their feelings than men. First, men often rationalise their feelings and try to give logical explanations for what are in fact intuitive decisions (e.g. “I invested in stock A for reasons x, y, and z”, but the real reason is that a good friend whom he trusts recommended it). Second, women very often have solid “rational” reasons behind their preferences or actions, but choose to explain these as a matter of personal feeling, perhaps out of reluctance to start an argument, or so as not to offend the person to whom they are speaking. To be sure, wishing not to offend someone does place a certain value upon that person’s feelings – a perfectly rational value, merely showing a different set of priorities.

Third, to get back to the post and Lemmonex’s comment – men are every bit as subject to irrational behaviour in pursuit of an object of desire as women. The real difference between us is that men fall in love/lust much faster than we do, but get over it as soon as the desired party has said yes.

From a woman’s point of view, some men behave so absurdly in their pursuit of sex/love that it’s a wonder that any woman ever says yes to you. I’m not talking about the poor saps who are merely shy and awkward. I mean the men who tell obvious lies, who boast in a way that sounds insecure rather than confident, who use idiotic lines, who get into pointless arguments with waiters, who repeat “you’re beautiful” 20 times during dinner, or stare so intently at you that they embarrass you into total confusion. I ask you – does that sound like rational behaviour?

an addendum to #xii:
you should pour the majority of your effort at self-improvement into 2 things: (a) enhancing whatever is your greatest strength, and (b) mitigating whatever is your greatest weakness.
i agree about the dancefloor analogy, at least inasmuch as you shouldn’t subject glaring weaknesses to intense sunshine (thereby making them glare even more). however, you should WORK like crazy on your weaknesses, until you have no more true weaknesses – just lesser strengths.

“you should find ways to SHOW your woman that your mission matters more to you than her presence in your life. Say you’ve got to work on some project related to your mission instead of going on a date. Or just plain ignore her for long stretches at a time while you work fanatically on your mission. She’ll like you more.”

that shit can backfire on you

why keep cancelling dates and forestalling the pussy? that was the reason you were after her in the first place. no sense in killing your own momentum

“Second, women very often have solid “rational” reasons behind their preferences or actions, but choose to explain these as a matter of personal feeling, ”

I think in a lot of cases NOT… reasons that would fail under close examination. Now then, under the color of emotional reasons… who dares to accuse someone of feeling wrong.
A bigger non sequitor fails to manifest.

Since emotion is a product of self, and owned by self. Most challenge all comers. “Who are you to tell me how to feel? These are MY feelings, dammit”. In extremis, Males capitulate at the sounds of a woman who has the waterworks going full tilt.

“perhaps out of reluctance to start an argument, or so as not to offend the person to whom they are speaking.”

Women are far better as social clues and interpersonal dynamics. The higher number of cross connections between left brain and right brain is the leading accepted theory on why this is so.

“To be sure, wishing not to offend someone does place a certain value upon that person’s feelings – a perfectly rational value, merely showing a different set of priorities.”

All well, good, noble even. Logical output from an emotional process? Highly Unlikely. I don’t have the proofs or even protocols for testing such a supposition. Why don’t I? It must be, because almost all the sciences were created by men, and biased against the tides of emotionalism.

“Men…the logical sex. Sigh.”

As unlikely as that seems, Yes. But not all men. And Not all women are Irrational either. The proof is in the pudding.
Throughout history the of advances of law, architecture, and science have been primarily from almost all men.

Sure you can stake the claim, we never had the opportunity because we were feeding you, changing diapers, etc.

In the present day,
Ok.. other then Kevlar… what contributions have the ladies made? A lot of case law, and thats about it.

Awesome fucking list of what has to be the MOST important shit a man needs to keep in his mind when playing the game. And by playing the game, I mean having ANY interactions with a female he desires.

The people espousing that these rules do not apply to long-term relationships need to rethink some shit. Do women change once in a relationship? Uh… NO! They simply dig there talons in deeper and look to crush your soul even further. These rules become even more important when a man decides to enter into a long-term relationship. Bitches still need their buttons pushed. This will NEVER change!!!

Stay strong my brothers!

@80

Bitch please… you know damn good and well that when you smell pussy on a man that your sloppy hatchet-wound starts salivating or that when you see his weaknesses manifest themselves you’re ass positions a foot out the door.

Clio, there is no doubt that a lot of men, perhaps a majority, do all sorts of stupid and irrational things and then find a way to rationalize them.

And, on average, women may be as rational as men. I don’t know.

But, to say that a woman is likely to be as rational as a man is ridiculous. It is the same to say that a woman is as likely to be a mathematician or programmer or physicist.

Our abilities for math, on average, are about the same, but, we are not as likely to be good at math (or logic, or reasoning). When you look at the top 10% or 25% mathematicians (or physicists, or programmers, or whatever), there are disproportionately more men.

But, to say that a woman is likely to be as rational as a man is ridiculous. It is the same to say that a woman is as likely to be a mathematician or programmer or physicist.

That’s silly, ULurk. Men may well outdo women in math, physics, programming, etc. – but that has nothing to do with whether either sex has a greater capacity to control their emotions or to guide their lives by reason rather than emotion – which is the actual subject of this thread.

Those who are excel at logic in their professional capacity – take the late Bertrand Russell as an example – may nevertheless conduct their private lives with such inconsistency that I’ve come to suspect that there’s no connection between the ability to be logical in the realm of intellectual endeavour, and the ability to make rational and/or logical decisions in one’s personal life. Russell, for instance, was an exponent of free love but was crushed when his wife practised it with another man. Sir Isaac Newton was an alchemist; Robert Oppenheimer was a troubled man attracted to quasi-communist ideology and Hindu mysticism, and whose private life was a mess. I could come up with many more examples but I’ll leave it at that for now.

The subject of the thread was on how to get, and keep, poon. Controlling your emotions and being logical are two different things, though, often related.

We have all known some guy that used to lose his temper all the time, but now, can keep it unfer control. His ability to reason has likely gone unchanged.

I am not saying that one’s ability to reason implies that they will then live by that reason. Often enough, the best logicians have their heads so firmly in the clouds that there choices in life are downright idiotic. But they can still be reasoned with. They can follow, and improve, a line of logic.

And, BTW, Newton was a Chemist. They just called it Alchemy back then. (He is no less a Chemist than the Physicists that pursued Cold Fusion. Their quest proved futile, but the processes and focus was the same.)

Maybe we’re looking at this the wrong way. Maybe men and women have the same average ability to be logical and to control emotions, but men simply do a better job at it because their emotions are so much weaker. I suspect women may even be better at controlling some quantity of emotion x.

The influence emotions have on our actions depend primarily on 2 factors.
1. The strength of our emotions
2. Our ability to control emotions

Women may actually have an advantage in 2. because they have so much more experience with emotions, but 1. is so overpowering for them that they act emotionally despite having better average control than men. If I suddenly had the T/E ratio of a woman, I doubt I could compose myself as well as the average woman.

The way I understand it is that women have a stronger connection between their left and right brain hemispheres (the “logic” and “emotion” halves) while men have a weaker connection between the two.

Thus, for women logical processes can be constantly informed or affected by feelings and everything will be more personal to women, while men can compartmentalize more effectively, and de-personalize things.

A caricature: in “Pulp Fiction” the male robber Pumpkin started talking about the idea of robbing a bank by the telephone, by claiming that he has a little girl hostage. His female partner Hunny Bunny ignored the objective idea of this plan, and asked “was the little girl all right?”

***
Brilliant, and every bit as applicable to marriage as to the single life. Roissy, you talk about unconditional love as if that’s some kind of end goal and I say the rules of the game do not change! I’m a little older and am surrounded by guys who, 10-15 years ago, were great alpha players and scored the hottest chick by doing all of the above, only to be worn down by years and years of the girl’s emotional game. Women never stop playing — that emotional messiness is a tactic to wear down the very strength and virility that attracted them to the guy in the first place. Like picking the best wild horse and taming it to ride. The stamina they have for the long fight is unreal — years and years and years. It isn’t over until you’re driving her to the spa and holding her purse. Then they’ll laugh at you with their girlfriends and humiliate you in front of your children. Keep playing, men, never relax your guard for a minute! By playing the game all your life, you’re working hard to be the man she loves rather than the man she thinks she wants.
***
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Why should women get married relatively young?

“We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.”-Aristotle

Because it stops them from being UNABLE to move beyond the dating scene. As this person so accurately said, some wives are UNABLE to stop playing the same games that they played when single, when they get married. This is because they spent to much time dating. Granted, the switch from single female behaviour to married behavior, even after way to long dating, can be made, but it is HARDER. Arrested development. Really.

Also, this is what ticks so many men off, they can’t “earn” a womans love, because the woman doesn’t know how to stand down and leave combat mode.

Benjamin Franklin once wrote that widows make better mistresses. I believe this is true because the widow, after her husband died, is “stuck” in wife mode, and as such is an excellent wife… er, girlfriend. But acts like a wife.

Really, I have no idea how to “check” to see if your girlfriend can make the switch, FOR REAL, to “wife mode”, but certainly it is important if you are actually going to marry her.

Speaking of men compartmentalizing more effectively and de-personalize things, here are two Beta Hall of Fame moments that show the un-manliness of separating emotion from logic at an inappropriate time:

Democratic presidential candidate Mike Dukakis was asked a question on the death penalty, that began as follows: “Governor, theoretically speaking, if your wife were brutally raped and murdered…”

During that same election, Republican vice presidential candidate Dan Quayle was asked a question on abortion, that began as follows: “Senator, theoretically speaking, if your teenage daughter were raped…”

Both men responded dutifully and meekly as though they were discussing the finer points of tax law. What they should have said was:

“[name], theoretically speaking, the next time you mention my wife/daughter in this kind of a context, then, theoretically speaking, I will decorate the floor of this room with your teeth.”

It is also believed that Ike never did the Horizontal Bop during his entire long life.

From everything that I have read about Newton, he very likely died a virgin. (He was such a quirky guy that it is difficult to figure out whether his celibacy bothered him or not. That is, whether he was frustrated or not. I mean, we are talking about a guy that would eat one or two tiny meals per day, standing up, and slept about 3 hours per night.)

He proposed to a girl when he was 22, but never did again. I can not remmeber if was rebuffed or not. In addition to creating the laws of physics, inventing the Calculus, making major contributions to Optics and spending a great deal of time with the then new science of Alchemy (i.e. Chemistry), he spent a shit-load of time thinking about God and religion.

There were times in his life where science really took a back-seat to his religious ideas/pursuits.

PA in #21 raises an interesting point that is relevant here: why don’t more men act this way naturally? Contrary to much of the discussion above, I think men are in fact creatures of deeper, stronger emotions than women, emotions that in their highest form inspire the sacrificial love and noble duty of our heroes, while in their basest form engendering the violent bestiality of our antichrists. Most of us, I think, by nature want to love our women in ways that make us worthy reflections of our heroes, so our first instinct is to pull out the noble love stuff for the chick in the bar. I overstate? Read through the commandments and construct their opposites, e. g. I. Be the first to say I love you, II. Never make her jealous, III., Make her your priority. (Sorta works until you get to XIV., Fuck her badly). What you’re left with is a picture of premature sacrifice on the guy’s part, which cedes control of the relationship to the woman and makes him feel heroic. L&K Roissy’s advice is powerful precisely because it contravenes nature. It’s a superb effort to shift the locus of control closer to the middle, where it belongs.

Clio, I was just reading about one of those “rational” women in today’s paper.

She’s a TV sports reporter, and she took up with some guy who’s in the “SlamBall” league back in November. He beat her up 4 times since them, and she covered up the first 3 by wearing long sleeves or not going to work for a few days. This last time, they were out drinking with a friend of his, and went back to her place with some people they met at the club to “keep the party going”. Her boyfriend proceeded to start groping one of the other women, and, when he grabbed the woman by the hair when she protested, she went over to get him to stop. He gave her a backhander that witnesses say “knocked her through the air about 6 feet until she hit the wall”. While the other women escaped, she ran into the bathroom , whereupon he broke the door down and continued to beat the crap out of her, punching and BITING her face. She finally escaped from hew apartment, and the other woman had called the cops, who arrested the dope.

At the dangerousness hearing for this asshole, she FINALLY took out a restraining order.

So I guess I have a math problem for the rational Clio: how many times do you let someone beat the crap out of you before you do something about it?

Brutus, on the rare occasions when I have resorted to the use of anecdotes here to prove a point, I have had other commenters pounce on me to explain that only statistical evidence is valid, and that anecdotes prove nothing. So I have no compunction about doing the same to you. What does the case of this foolish woman prove, other than that one woman is foolish?

Leaving the anecdotal element aside, however, I could also point out that the man who did this to the woman in your story was hardly exemplifying rational behaviour either. He must have known that he was courting the possibility of arrest and imprisonment.

ULurk, it’s true that Roissy’s post was about getting sex from women – but this particular “branch” or thread, of the discussion, has been concerned with the question of whether men are as driven by their emotions as women are. I happen to believe that indeed, they are, but in different ways and probably by different kinds of feelings.

***

Men’s lesser ability to communicate between their right and left brains is often responsible for some very irrational actions.

Unable to translate his emotions into words, and thus finding it difficult to acknowledge that he is even feeling them, a certain kind of man may erupt into rage out of jealousy, envy, or despair, and seriously injure those he cares about, physically or emotionally, in spite of being, in other ways, a responsible and decent man.

I have known men whose entire lives were warped by resentment over past hurts, who – instead of telling themselves “there’s something wrong with me for dwelling on this so much; I’d better get help” – instead spent a great deal of time and effort coming up with rational explanations for their resentment. “I hate him because he stole my ideas”; “I hate her because she betrayed me”.

Their reasoning processes may be perfectly accurate, their accusations entirely justified – but what such men don’t get, in their search for reasons for their pain, is that people of lesser sensitivity or greater good sense find a way to cope with such setbacks without becoming poisoned by them. In other words, they find the reason but miss the point.

as for the supposed anecdotal nature of women going back over and over again to violently abusive men… well, let’s just say that based on the plethora of these anecdotes we may need a semantical upgrade to “sizeable minority”. almost, dare i say, a predictive dataset.

Anon, talk to any cop. It’s well-documented that a vast majority of them feel they are most at risk from a woman during a domestic violence arrest; for whatever reason (Stockholm Syndrome?) women tend to defend their batterers.

As the guy, he was simply exhibiting a rather extreme example of Roissy’s alpha behavior.

Clio, is it emotion or mental illness? It’s sometimes hard to tell the difference.

SovereignAmericanMale,
Good Luck Man,
Guess you will have to change the name once you get married and the kids come to something like NormalAmericanMale who just gave up all his rights as a man to the state and his (I mean the states) woman.

Keep it real. She is yours already why the need to get married? Just make a comittment to each other based on your word and mean it. You do not need the piece of paper which everyone knows can be broken. You can make it so your word will not break by just being determined and meaning what you say. That piece of paper cannot do so. Only you as a man can forge an unbreakable bond forever and make it stick, no matter what happens.

If it is just a piece of paper when shit hits the fan you can walk. If you place all of your soul into your word and say it with your whole being. Then you can walk through the valley of the shadow of death with your woman and your will will not bend and your strength will not waver. Since she knows that neither will hers.

Warning to all posters. While clio is certainly not a bad or harmful woman in any way, she is the classic literary, sensitive woman. She is so incredibly sensitive and cerebral that she is likely to blow away in a stiff breeze.

In other words, she doesn’t have a clue about her own needs or desires.

She lives in a world of pansies. She’s isolated herself in a hermetically sealed universe in which she is unlikely to ever meet a man worth shit.

Be forewarned. I rather like her, but I don’t take much of anything she says seriously.

Anon, talk to any cop. It’s well-documented that a vast majority of them feel they are most at risk from a woman during a domestic violence arrest; for whatever reason (Stockholm Syndrome?) women tend to defend their batterers.

the domestic violence racket is such a joke that the concept of “batterer” has been rendered essentially meaningless.

i’ve even seen a study showing a strong inverse correlation between the vehemence of a woman’s testimony and the truth of that testimony – meaning that the stronger the “evidence” in a DV case, the more likely that the man is being railroaded.

Kevin, Lemmonex and others are right — men are if anything *more* emotional than women. But they are less expressive. This can paradoxically result in stronger emotions.

Think about it. Men are far more likely to let their emotions drive them into self-destructive behavior than women are. Men commit suicide more often, die violently more often, do idiotic things that harm them or land them in jail more often, delay medical care out of pride, etc. It’s just that men valorize the “macho” irrational emotions of aggression and pride, and refuse to recognize that these emotions make them just as flighty and irrational as women. And far more dangerous to themselves and others.

Warning to all posters. While clio is certainly not a bad or harmful woman in any way, she is the classic literary, sensitive woman. She is so incredibly sensitive and cerebral that she is likely to blow away in a stiff breeze.

Dunno … clio is cerebral, but not too sensitive, not if she’s hanging around Chez Roissy. This site is as appealing to an overly sensitive woman as a Hezbollah conference is as appealing to an Orthodox rabbi.

I think MQ and the others are right. Some guys who argue that men are less emotional than women are either confusing this with the fact that men tend to be more logic-oriented, or they are arguing from a nerdo-centric position of a someone who does in fact either have very little emotion or has it profoundly repressed.

On the list — there’s some truth to it, in a manipulative sort of way. Certainly it will help prolong that crazy-making yet compelling romantic uncertainty. Tone it down sufficiently and it can work as flirtatious play. But the core of the thing is: never really trust a woman, and never let her really trust you.

However, trust and mutual reliance — knowing that you can rely on each other — is a really powerful and compelling part of love. There’s a reason why we want it. But if you try to wall it out completely you’re losing out on a lot of what makes love rewarding.

However, trust and mutual reliance — knowing that you can rely on each other — is a really powerful and compelling part of love. There’s a reason why we want it. But if you try to wall it out completely you’re losing out on a lot of what makes love rewarding.

Truth. Just celebrated my anniversary, and I have known my husband for almost 10 years. We trust each other completely and can be vulnerable and open to each other.

He violates nearly every one of the things stated on this post, gives me all of himself, compliments freely, and loves me completely. It is enough to make me get a lump in my throat when I think about all that.

Roissy’s commandments may be good for “poon” as the title states, but suck for how to “keep real, true unconditional love and happiness in your life” as the last sentence suggests. But what do I know? I’m just a girl.

Comment 94, Comment_This_Is_Why – you hit the nail right on the head. In fact I would say Roissy’s list is even more importatant when you are married. Following these rules not only keeps the man in top mental condition even after the ring is on the finger but it also keep things new. Never ever let her get comfortable with you, it is the kiss of death for her and you.

I post at Roissy’s – as I’ve explained many times before – because HE LINKED TO ME. (Apologies to everyone except ST for shouting.) Obviously he doesn’t find me too sensitive and literary to be allowed to comment on Real Life. If I were the wilting flower you describe, I’d have given up posting here in tears and embarrassment long ago, especially considering some of the language (a few) posters here have used against me.

As for not being “in touch with my needs”, how the bloody HELL would you know what they are or whether I’m in touch with them? Why is it that people assume that anyone with literary or cerebral interests is too frail to live? Or asexual? Or whatever it is you believe?

I did not see those, but I went back to read them. Maybe I’m being delusional, but my husband does very few things on that list, and ever since he started being more caring and affectionate, I’ve been more in love with him than when he was being distant and made me jealous with another woman in the wings.

About comment #26, It isn’t over until you’re driving her to the spa and holding her purse. Then they’ll laugh at you with their girlfriends and humiliate you in front of your children.

I don’t have girlfriends or go to the spa or even go shopping. Yes, we both poke fun at each other a little bit, but it’s for laughter, not to humiliate with malicious intentions. We both do things for each other, compromise, and demand from each other. He doesn’t have to work hard for my affection as he gets it freely without needing to ask, and vice versa.

If he has to hold back “I love you” and compliments, and has to make me to jump around like a pet, then the whole relationship dynamic would change. At that point instead of completely honest communication we would just have deception, manipulation and misdirection. All this talk about the man “not caring” would result in what happened before between us… I would stop caring as well.

Following these rules not only keeps the man in top mental condition even after the ring is on the finger but it also keep things new.

Keeping oneself in top condition is a partner effort in a good marriage. We support each other’s exercise regiments, support each other’s mental pursuits, discuss topics even such as pick-up artist stuff, etc. We keep things new by engaging in new activities together.

We don’t play head games with each other, but play with different challenges that we both have to work together to overcome. We transfer our new interests that we discover on our own to the other person. Our partnership makes us both more confident, not him super cocky arrogant and me a submissive little wifey perpetually meek and pliant.

Never ever let her get comfortable with you, it is the kiss of death for her and you.

We’re totally comfortable with each other, and there’s no kiss of death after all these years. When times were brutal in the relationship, they weren’t because we were too comfortable and not enough “excitement,” but because of too much drama, not enough communication, and actually quite a bit of neglect on both our parts.

Playing games inside a marriage rather than just finding a suitable partner to begin with seems to indicate the wrongness of the pairing rather than the rightness of these “commandments.”

The men who believe we have as much emotion as women are either overly emotional themselves, or spend too much time around emotional men. Academics perhaps? Here in my ivory tower I notice that the men are far more emotional than average. I know they’re not an unbiased sampled.

Forget about the people you know and think about the average Joe. Sure, his emotions may be repressed but he sure as hell doesn’t feel as strongly as the average Jane.

MQ, thanks. Men are more emotional and also more capable of emotional discipline — it takes a strong rider to ride a strong horse. Even subordinating one’s emotions to a woman’s caprices as per the antilist would be a form of discipline. The commandments are another. If I may presume to summarize, Lord Roissy commands us to refrain from ever ceding control of a relationship, no matter how much we want to. In my observation, all relationships, no matter how frothy in the beginning, eventually ground themselves on issues of control. At the stakes at which those of us who frequent this site play, none of us would be satisfied with a subservient lover — we’re all smart and proud, and are looking for the same. Therefore, we will all have conflicts over control. Dear Hope, ask yourself, who decided where to live, how many children to have, whose parents you see on Christmas? And don’t say “we decided together.” Relationships are not friendships. We don’t have agendas for our friends, but we sure as hell do for those with whom we fall in love. So there will always be conflicts between our expectations and our loves. How two proud independent souls ever find solace together is the eternal great mystery of love. And the fastest way to kill love is to give in to it.

This blog was entertaining/disturbing back when I had more time on my hands. It seemed like ideas worth contemplating. Now I get home, read a lot of comments from a bunch of myopic fucktards and realize how pathetic it is that you spend your time plotting on how to be manipulative in order to get what you want.

Newsflash: these mindfucks only attract girls that are messed up in the head to begin with. If my boyfriend did half the shit Roissy promotes, I’d probably respond immediately by holding back emotionally and sexually, and then break up with him immediately after.

I mean, maybe legitimate relationships arise from the actions Roissy is such a proponent of using. I’m not one to discount the possibility. But really? Should a relationship be so much work? Personally, I like having someone who is a best friend, a decent human being, and sexual partner: Someone who being with is just easy, and not a constant power struggle. I know every misogynist here is already thinking to themselves: he’s a beta, she’s fat or ugly, she withholds sex or is a golddigger just waiting to have babies and steal all his money in divorce…

What this blog offers for casual sex I can’t comment on. But these tactics for use in long term relationships are ridiculous, and seem borne out of a pathetic insecurity in dealing with women as equals.

If you want a relationship, AND you desire to be happy… Don’t do this shit. You won’t be doing yourself any favors by expending so much energy in what will be a high-maintenance relationship right off the bat. Your time would be better spent finding a woman who both likes your personality AND likes sex with you.

The cynics will read this and think I am advocating what Roissy describes as “beta”– too much fawning over women, the “pussy on a pedestal.” I’m not. You know why women hate this? Because too much attention means you are not treating her like a human being. You’re STILL treating her without the respect you would give an equal. Women hate this. Even Roissy know this, though he attributes it to just being “beta,” rather than recognizing it as just another form of sexism that women dislike.

This blog is the best running statement I’d read on the devastation done to us all by feminism.

Thursday, you’re right. Get yourself an Asian nerd girl. You won’t need to play these stupid games with her.

clio, I’m a fan. Perhaps you need to re-read Roissy’s commandments. Hard for you to believe, but they are aimed at you. Haven’t read your blog for a while. I follow the link here from the Blowhards.

So, in the spirit of Roissy’s rules, I must inform you that it was not your scintillating self that drew me here. I read this blog regularly due to the Blowhards’ link. Your blog is too boring and pedantic to read with any frequency.

I didn’t suspect you of looking for a date, ST. I thought you were trying to annoy me by making a completely irrelevant comment about what you think my personality is. I do suspect you can’t read Roissy’s blog all that regularly, because if you did, you’d be aware of how often I post comments and realise how ridiculous it is to try to explain me to the other readers here.

Clio

p.s. My blog apparently interests many of Roissy’s readers, who are also among my own most regular readers and seem to find it neither boring nor pedantic.

Welcome to my world. The ambivalent one. But remember even a broken watch is right twice a day.

The human mind really is a true marvel.

How is it that I can Lust and Hate the same person?
The long term outlook for people who hold contradiction within their minds is NOT good. Psychosis like Schizophrenia become normative, in such people.

Yes but No… more on why in a second.
It will likely become “SovereignAustralianMale”, but thats only do to a chance in domicile location. But not do to a change marital status.

…NormalAmericanMale who just gave up all his rights as a man to the state and his (I mean the states) woman.”

Rights given by the Creator, are Un-A-Lien-able and In-Alien-Able.
My rights cannot be amended, recended, revoked, or replaced. Gaining a wife, changes nothing, with regard to my rights. Any male who lets a wife defraud him into losing his recognition (forgetting) of permanent intrinsic rights, deserves neither her or his rights.

Among the 96 point check list points required:

01: “She is in True Love, with me”

38: “She is a {bdsm} Submissive, She chooses / accepts her path to be ruled by me. Because she honors my sovereignty and will not challenge it, she is able to find fulfillment of her own need to be ruled.”

04: “She has an Iq above 130, understands completely whats going on around her, when in ignorance and investigates until aware”

For all of the above, and other reasons, I have no need to give up “rights to the state/wife” and become Normal (not sovereign in Re: the wife) .

—————————————————————————

“Keep it real. She is yours already why the need to get married? Just make a comittment to each other based on your word and mean it. You do not need the piece of paper which everyone knows can be broken.You can make it so your word will not break by just being determined and meaning what you say. That piece of paper cannot do so. Only you as a man can forge an unbreakable bond forever and make it stick, no matter what happens.

If it is just a piece of paper when shit hits the fan you can walk. If you place all of your soul into your word and say it with your whole being. Then you can walk through the valley of the shadow of death with your woman and your will will not bend and your strength will not waver. Since she knows that neither will hers.”

Very True, but I am a Covenant Maker. The value in a covenant, contract, (legal instrument) is two fold. Like every land title, It contains a blueprint or description. This is a good thing to study, and helps you remember “The Why”. Like the keeping of Passover, a memorial. So That you do not forget.

I totally believe If: (1)Men entered the covenant Honestly, and (2) recited their vows each morning while getting the morning BJ, Then they would succeed at fidelity. 95% of men are unable to recite their vows… How the Fuck can you keep your word if you don’t even know what your supposed to do. Because you don’t remember what you agreed to???

The second part of its value lies within its ability to help keep an honest man honest. {by threat of consequence} I also Fear God. I think there is a real afterlife consequence for willful breaking of your Bond-Word

Shouting Thomas, I see where you’re coming from in principle and you kick ass at 2BH. But you have it backwards on Clio.

I’ve notices that female commentators come in two flavors here at Roissy’s: ones who know how to talk to men, and ones who don’t. The former group, which includes Clio and a few others, even when they disagree, somehow avoid coming across like the latter group, which includes a parade of schoolmarmy nags, condescending apt pupils of political correctness, or shrieky harridians.

Those, as you well know, have no effect on guys. We just tune them out and ignore them.

It’s good to have a few smart and friendly female commentators here. Compare this blog with sausage-party blogs. This one is more fun.

Clio is always super-cool and understanding. ST shouldn’t just come on this board and go on a rant. ST has zero social intuition – he once went on a mad, irrational rant against Megan McArdle for being upset over the death of her dog. One of the biggest things women like in men is good social intuition, ST has none.

This is apropos of nothing, but I’m watching Wednesday Night Fights on ESPN2 right now, and one of the (male) boxers has bigger and bouncier hooters than probably 75% of all women.
He’s actually a pretty good boxer.

But does he have a GNP?

That I do not know (nor, for that matter do I want to know), however it should be noted that shaving, of the sort I deplore, is no longer entirely limited to women. Yes, some men are getting into the act as well. In fact, I believe the practice originated among male porn actors, who realized that hairlessness would make them look longer.

ST has zero social intuition – he once went on a mad, irrational rant against Megan McArdle for being upset over the death of her dog.

In slight defense of Shouting Thomas, it wasn’t really a mad or irrational rant. His point was that Megan, being unmarried and childless, was treating her dog as a husband/child substitute. It was an uncalled-for statement because Megan hadn’t given any indication that she in fact had treated her dog that way. For all ST or anyone else knew, despite having no human family Megan may have considered her dog just a pet, a beloved pet but a pet nonetheless.

In any event, the timing was all wrong.

—

I’ve notices that female commentators come in two flavors here at Roissy’s: ones who know how to talk to men, and ones who don’t. The former group, which includes Clio and a few others, even when they disagree, somehow avoid coming across like the latter group, which includes a parade of schoolmarmy nags, condescending apt pupils of political correctness, or shrieky harridians.
Those, as you well know, have no effect on guys. We just tune them out and ignore them.

Were it so easy. In my travels through the blogosphere I had quite a run-in with a woman in the latter group, and the consequences for me weren’t pleasant. It got me banned from making comments on what had been one of my favorite blogs, and to make it worse the woman in question has made snarky replies to some of my comments on other forums and in the process has damaged my reputation.

I think the contradiction inherently lies with individuals rather than with the statements themselves. With some women, presumably Roissy’s efforts make more progress, but with others, these commandments might well turn them off.

The affectionate, devoted and emotional man might not be wildly successful with club hotties, but with a sweet girlish girl he would get a lot more mileage. It’s a catch-22 for a man if he does not wish to adhere to his own intrinsic sense of self and twists himself into a manipulative jerk. The women he attracts are more beautiful, but he must keep up the game facade to keep them.

Dear Hope, ask yourself, who decided where to live, how many children to have, whose parents you see on Christmas? And don’t say “we decided together.” Relationships are not friendships. We don’t have agendas for our friends, but we sure as hell do for those with whom we fall in love.

He decides on matters of children (if I am capable of bearing children, since we never really tried) because I want to bear children for him. He would be a much better parent than I would. On Christmas (the past 7 consecutively), we put up a single decoration, had no tree, and stayed home. No parental visitations or elaborate dinners.

Our lives are unusual and simple. We don’t really decide so much as simply “do.” We are both lazy as all hell, not to mention incredibly indecisive. It sometimes takes us 10 minutes of back and forth to decide where to go for lunch, which we eat together almost every day. We seldom travel or buy new things. We don’t have deep friendships outside of the relationship.

So there will always be conflicts between our expectations and our loves. How two proud independent souls ever find solace together is the eternal great mystery of love. And the fastest way to kill love is to give in to it.

This is true, but no matter my expectations (we could never live up to the ideal) there is something greater than that. Our souls were inexplicably intertwined from the first few moments we spoke to each other. One could say we are soulmates, even if that kind of expression is unusual these days.

We gave in a long time ago to this tremendous kind of bond that is greater than ourselves. It is the kind that is loving of quirks and flaws, that accepts and forgives all, and that allow us to truly be ourselves.

Yea, it’s an anti-feminist statement. But to many feminists, their worst nightmare is coming true: some women are choosing the blue pill. Some women have the world of options fought for by their mothers and yet reject them. But then again, most ‘feminists’ won’t acknowledge this as a legitimate choice, but rather continued dellusion and oppression. That’s because to accept it is too dangerous to their dogma. To accept that THEIR path isn’t the only one, might mean they made the wrong choice, and their whole identity is built up in that. That’s just too much, so the mind constructs a way out.

But in all honesty, if anything deserves a ‘Fuck you’, it’s “post-modern when convenient, your-truth-is-just-as-valid-as-mine-except-when-it-threatens-my-beliefs” type people. Maybe that’s not you, but if that’s the case I’d love to hear it.

This is interesting because I’m a woman and successfully employ most of these tactics – make him jealous & be sure that he’s aware of your other options, “play hard to get”, be mysterious, never let him feel he’s totally “won” you, never call attention to your flaws/weaknesses/failures, etc – as far as he knows, you know you’re awesome, have high self-esteem, & your men have always treated you very well, and that’s what you expect, have a full life that doesn’t revolve around him, don’t always be available, keep him guessing, if he’s a guy used to women falling all over him, don’t – he’s lucky to have you too, etc.

I mean this is pretty basic, handed down over the centuries advice to women re: how they should deal with men, no? A lot of your list reads like it was lifted from tracts like “The Rules”, which after much denial on my part , I’ve come to realize works beautifully on men. Your female readers would be well advised to follow some of your tips.

Aw, poor Peter. His stupid comments about “bearded clams” and other random asides upset the wee women and we responded by not letting him talk that way to us! If we knew how to talk to real men, we’d understand and put up with it…

Why don’t you ever need to know how not to upset women, Peter? Why is it always our job to have to figure out how not to be offended by your jackassness?

Aw, poor Peter. His stupid comments about “bearded clams” and other random asides upset the wee women and we responded by not letting him talk that way to us! If we knew how to talk to real men, we’d understand and put up with it…

Actually, it wasn’t my Glorious Natural Pelt comments that led to unpleasant scene on another forum.

The way I remember it, I supported banning you from the other forum based on general cluelessness and asshattery. It had nothing to do with your preferences, but rather with your attempts to use, “But you’re a girl!” as an insult.

Besides. It’s not the “natural” part that bugs me. It’s the reference to “pelt,” like we’re your livestock or something.

Sure. I know. You’re just trying to be funny. I should get a sense of humor. Whatever. Maybe you should get another schtick?

***
[b]If you want a relationship, AND you desire to be happy… Don’t do this shit.[/b] You won’t be doing yourself any favors by expending so much energy in what will be a high-maintenance relationship right off the bat. Your time would be better spent finding a woman who both likes your personality AND likes sex with you.

[b]The cynics will read this and think I am advocating what Roissy describes as “beta”– too much fawning over women, the “pussy on a pedestal.” I’m not. You know why women hate this? Because too much attention means you are not treating her like a human being.[/b] You’re STILL treating her without the respect you would give an equal. Women hate this. Even Roissy know this, though he attributes it to just being “beta,” rather than recognizing it as just another form of sexism that women dislike.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, just, grow up.
***
If this woman was for real, and I’m sure she’d can be gamed, then she would be the most nightmarish, insane nut to deal with possible.

“Don’t put me on a pedastal”(Give me to much control)
“Don’t be ‘an ass'”(Give yourself to much control)

All in all, a very narrow tightrope.

Now, let’s try to remember that this narrow little region in which she won’t be miffed is constantly under “hormonal drift”, and thus is a tightrope happily swinging in 150 mph winds.

If she was for real, then NO ONE could date her. NO ONE.

Of course, her opinions on what she wants are nonsense, but what horrible, frightening nonsense it is!

Oh, so sorry. Imagine that female commenters wouldn’t sympathetic to all the crockery on this blog? Boo hoo. Did I hurt somebody’s feelings?
*better go tune me out now, because, as stated, men can’t listen to perfect logic when it threatens to be unfriendly*

@ Animus

I, as a feminist, have nothing wrong with decisions that women make (unless it is made out of fear or ignorance). If a woman wants to follow her man’s dreams then go for it. But let refresh what was said, “Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women…”

Where’s the implication of a choice here? In fact, it’s the exact opposite. Let’s ignore what women really feel and say, because, by default, a worthy man’s life purpose is paramount to any woman’s.

So as such, the ‘Fuck you’ still stands. I’m vomiting all over my keyboard now…

“*better go tune me out now, because, as stated, men can’t listen to perfect logic when it threatens to be unfriendly*”

1. I guess I am not a member of the men, as I don’t meet the above definition.
2. Waits for perfect logic to descend from on high, as another high priestess of femanazim, Preaches the gospel according to woman-goddess.

“I, as a feminist, have nothing wrong with decisions that women make (unless it is made out of fear or ignorance).”

So lets go educated all the unenlightened women, and make sure she knows she has a choice… To be happy and successful in the workplace or unhappy and successful in the home. And make sure she is not there because her father handed her over to another man, and has her in “fear”.

” If a woman wants to follow her man’s dreams then go for it. But let refresh what was said, “Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women…” ”

What? Why the need to qualify a perfectly good rational sentence by tying it to some other thought? This is the kinda spin-crap that pisses me off in chats with femi-gals.
Please don’t follow good stuff with that “But”.. cause sounds / smells just like it came out of a “butt”.

“Where’s the implication of a choice here? In fact, it’s the exact opposite. Let’s ignore what women really feel and say, because, by default, a worthy man’s life purpose is paramount to any woman’s.”

Notice how the whole line of thought has changed direction, after the first sentence. Its like the pill has become suger-coated. Lets feel good, while feeding you this drivel.

“So as such, the ‘Fuck you’ still stands. I’m vomiting all over my keyboard now…”

Quite so.. its showing up on our screens.

As for the “Fuck you” I am sure Animus will pass thank you.
Your strap-on doesn’t interest him or any of the others here…

Unless your usage of said strap-on has been seen in porn, and is worthy of being on David Alex’s 50 Terebyte harddrive.

Jenni, I’ll keep this brief. “Despite whatever contestations to the contrary” is not so much a statement about women as it is about humans. People act contrary to their stated desires, *all the time*. What you call bigotry, Roissy calls biomechanics. It’s not a matter of disregarding what they say because they are viewed as worthless (which is your implication), but rather because their genes compel them to act in a manner contradictory to a consciously stated direction. The deepest irony is that this is the same as a gay man trying to deny his gayness; something that third-wave feminists would encourage him to break free of.

Yes people act contrary to their stated desires all the time. It’s still condescending to pretend you know what someone “really” wants and act as if you can take advantage of that knowledge to give it to her. You’d be pretty upset if I was all, “You say you don’t want to pay for my drinks, but I think it’s in your nature to provide and show off your ability to buy me things, so I’m putting this on your tab.”

See, that’s where the difference lies, and why no one takes you seriously, dizzy. If you said that to me, I would *not* be pretty upset. I would laugh, because you would be acting silly, tell you that I don’t know you well enough to be providing for you, and kindly tell the staff person that I’m not paying for you. And guess what? Something like this *has* happened to me. You get upset when people make assumptions about you. If you knew what was going on in everyone’s head as you walk around the grocery store, your head would probably explode from the pressure.

Condescending means to talk down to someone, as if they were of less intelligence, or rank. How does believing you know what someone wants, in contradiction of what they are saying, imply that that person is of lower rank or intelligence? Especially when you admitted that contradiction is a common human behavior?

This was the reason I hated the dating scene. I can’t stand game-playing, and there were a number of guys that I stopped seeing simply because they seemed more interested in playing games than in developing a relationship.

For emotionally stunted men, I’m sure Roissy’s tips will work in attracting equally emotionally stunted women. Good luck to you.

Men and women are different. Nothing wrong in that, or in acknowledging it. Viva le difference! It’s wonderful, and I love it. But the mind f**k encouraged here is discouraging. No wonder there are so many unhappy people in the world, if everyone is out to “play” everyone else.

If you live by these rules, expect your long-term outcome to be a shallow relationship, if any, at best.

As a rule, emotionally stunted people create MORE drama, not less. Generally they’re insecure. And if someone is playing these types of games with them it’s just going to increase their insecurity and increase the drama.

Some people like drama in their lives. I’m not one of them.

A shallow relationship with a hot girl giving you plenty of freedom may be exactly what you want. But be aware if she’s giving you plenty of freedom she’s very likely taking the same liberties you are. If you’re okay with that, more power to you.

Hot girls are a “hot” commodity. And women are wired to look for a monogamous relationship, so your hot chick relationship may last just long enough for her to find someone who will nest with her.

Also, if you eventually decide that you want to pass along your genes for a bit of physical immortality will you ever be able to fully trust that that hot chick with whom you had such a wonderful, free, shallow relationship with is carrying YOUR progeny?

Funny…but most of these commandments are simply reminding men how to be men, and that by being so, they will have a better chance at attracting women.

Nothing offends the feminist more than the truth of the natural laws of attraction and mating. Telling a feminist that her attraction mechanism is based on the principle of hypergamy (she wants to mate up) is just too much cognitive dissonance for her indoctrinated mind to comprehend. Hence the reference to vomiting on keyboards and other such emotionally-based invective.

And for those of you that think these commandments would doom a long term relationship, you are wrong.

There IS a line – a breaking point if you will – with any of them, taking it too far will damage your relationship…but generally following them more or less WILL ensure that the woman in your life will never “get bored” and “fall out of love” with you.

Just celebrated 10 years of marriage. Spent 7 years of it skating on the edge of divorce because I tried to be Mr. Sensitive, caring, “I’ll do anything for you, dear!”

Started reading up guys like roissy, and other PUA websites on theories of attraction and gaming etc, and applied the principles of BEING A MAN instead of a simpering Beta begging for affection and attention. I took my balls back from her purse, reattached them, and watched as our relationship transformed almost overnight.

We have NEVER been happier. I cannot even remember the last real blow up we had (simply because I got off of her emotional roller coaster…) Funny thing is, thanks to the Feminst Zeitgeist that has corrupted this society, you cannot tell women the truth of this, they will deny it, because they do not want to admit that they want to breed with superior genes. Oh no…”all women are equal to men, blah blah blah.”

Women and men are DIFFERENT. We think differently and have different physical abilities. Only idiots (usually feminists) think we’re the same.

And, as a woman, I want my man to be a MAN – not a wuss. A man can be manly, keep his balls, and still be caring. It sounds like most of this advice should be used for those silly, game-playing women. My husband refers to them as “blondes” even if they have dark hair. It’s a personality type that tends towards the material and superficial.

There are reasons I live in Texas. Unfortunately the “Dallas Blonde” is not a myth, and there are a LOT of them around. Thankfully, Texans seem to breed a higher than average percentage of real men. The Dallas Blondes seem to hook up more with the transplanted Yankees.

I’m with PA on this one. I can not tell you how many times I saw somebody on a site like Feministing reference “gender is a social construct”. In fact, I thought that the word gender was “invented” (i.e. appropriated) because sex was used to describe the basic biological difference whereas gender was socially constructed.

I don’t doubt that there is a Womyns Studies author who may say different, but, debates over whether or not a girl can accept, or even want, an engagement ring still go on at Feministing.

on July 10, 2008 at 8:25 pm157 dizzy8
The way I remember it, I supported banning you from the other forum based on general cluelessness and asshattery. It had nothing to do with your preferences, but rather with your attempts to use, “But you’re a girl!” as an insult.

Besides. It’s not the “natural” part that bugs me. It’s the reference to “pelt,” like we’re your livestock or something.

Sure. I know. You’re just trying to be funny. I should get a sense of humor. Whatever. Maybe you should get another schtick?

Wow so you supported banning him. Another difference between woman and men. Men don’t normally ban people from discussioncause they don’t like it they just ignore it if they really don’t like it or try to change it. But not ban. Woman are usually the ones on blogs having some crazy ass shit there saying about feminism but then they only let the comments through on it that they want not all the comments.
So dizzy was all for someone getting banned on an internet site blog. Holy shit. Then the comment from the woman above somewhere that men can’t handle logical discussion. What the fuck these guys Rhoosh and Roissy as far as I know And Virgle Kent probably except I can’t read his blog it doesn’t come through. Don’t ban people even if they don’t agree with them. So men are actually for real free speech which a lot of woman would be real happy with having only pr speech that they agree with.

Lemonex,
Shit I get hit in the face every day that woman are actually better at everything than men including shooting guns lol and it is said with a straight face. But yea you never heard of equality have you never worked in a business. Equal pay and all that type of stuff. Really I am a special case though I had a lot of extra classes on equality and equal pay but with different expectations of men and woman when I was in the army. Going on in the real world today as we speak.

Gunslinger: WTF? Is this English? I just read this three times and have no fucking idea what you are attempting to say. Something about shooting guns? Either way, girls rule, boys drool, blah blah blah.

I was saying that a feminist website would not of posted my comment. I am saying men are the tolerant ones. Roissy lets dizzy and anyone else post here that wants too. I think it is cool that dizzy can post that I can post that anyone can post. How else can you see other views. It may make you angry it may make you mad. Might change someones mind. Might not. Everyone has an opportunity to have a say. The only censured sites I have seen so far are female run sites to make it look like everyone is for their cause or there is no opposite opinion.

Your right lemon woman do rule they can always make just as much money as men or more with no shop or education needed. They just have to sell there ass. So yea we will never be really equal. Guys love them too much.

Reading dated things lol I have been living this shit for the last 10 years. A woman told me the other day that all woman are better at shooting guns than men. I am like ok uh what about the guys at the shooting range in the army and the woman who usually hit 5 targets and they make them stay out there all day till they qualify. She is like well my husband who was a sniper when he was in sniper school the teacher told them woman shoot better they have better breathing and all that stuff. I said are you sure he didn’t tell you that to get in your pants since your a feminist. We laughed but anyway.

To clarify the selling ass statement. Check out escort services in the states that charge 250 an hour. Then you might say well the escort service charges these woman exhorbetant amounts to work there. Well they might charge 40 percent so that means the woman gets 150 dollars an hour. What masters or doctorate program did she have to go to to get the skills needed for the job none. How many people do you know making 150 an hour. Her “skills” come naturally.

I have heard coments here how the woman don’t get enough profit selling thier ass.
Actually they make a way bigger profit than someone say working at walmart as a cashier or many other positions. Walmart makes like 175,000 per year per employee. They do not pay very many 105,000 a year or 60 percent of that.

[…] July 17, 2008 by roissy The utopian libertarian economist who would throw open the borders for the experience of an authentic chalupa once again summoned the Krakon by posting a comment from my site without proper attribution. I understand in the hothouse nerddom of internet protocol this is considered a major breach of etiquette, so I feel it is my duty… nay, my honor… to call out his beta ass. Here is the comment in response I left on his blog Karl Marx Was An Academic Too: the quote cowen pulled and attempted, weakly and with great passive-aggressive betatude, to hide the source of, is from my post “the sixteen commandments of poon“: […]

I had a lot of extra classes on equality and equal pay but with different expectations of men and woman when I was in the army. Going on in the real world today as we speak.

My husband was in the marine corps and said that the women got to shower every day, but the men didn’t. He thought that was incredibly unfair at the time, until he got with me and realized women really need that kind of cleanliness or they get infections.

When I took classes on feminism in college, he sat in on some of them. We are both “dirty liberals” as the righties like to call us, but we’re realistic about it. We think women should not join up for war or work hard jobs that threaten their fertility, and should not be working long hours or should even be working in most cases. Women should have children, raise them well, and be good wives and mothers — pillars of the family unit.

To use a nerdy gaming analogy, women are the support classes healers and buffers, while men are the fighters and wizards. Fighters and wizards are good at soloing, but healers suck at soloing, but are very much needed in groups. Men need the feminine emotional support, stable home life and to feel honored and respected, in order to succeed at what they do.

When the support classes are played poorly, the groups suffer. Without support classes at all, groups fall apart. I always play healers and support classes. Being a wife and a mother is exactly that. It is a difficult and self-sacrificing role, a nurturing and empathic role. Even though not all women want to fill that role, without anyone to do it, the very glue that holds society together falls apart. We are now all solo fighters, competing against each other, never working together. Where’s the team spirit?

Roger that Hope. I do think that in a game is where we will be able to all just be ourselves. My little sister plays and she thinks its funny guys just giver her stuff and not just small stuff in game because she is a woman. We will never be equal it is a fantasy but we can just be allowed to be ourselves.

“infections” they can use a plastic bag with holes and a 5 gallon bucket too. oh wait that is mechanized. So you see again on the equality never happening woman really are led to believe they are special. Which of course they are but then when you add additional laws to the mix at the expense of men as well it makes them superhuman. Guys would already give them prob more than half their shit they don’t need a law to tell them to do it. I have given my woman a shitload of money and I will give her a shitload more to help her be rich. I have no name on that stuff after I give and I don’t care. It is a gift. I didn’t need a law to make me give I love her and want the best for her. So you can see how this normal giving nature has been tranplanted with you have to give this much. The man’s choice to give in support has been taken away along with his feeling of being helpfull he could just give what he felt in his heart he needed to before now in america you will give this much. Fucked up way to live life and takes away the adventure.

Talk about another in game phenomenon. The guys who play a woman char to get the extra benefits of what they see for that. If they are a woman char selling expensive stuff in game. They see it being easier to get a higher price and to sell stuff. They also like the free stuff they are given. I didn’t need that because I had my ex doing the gateing to our shop so I already had the extra help of a woman on a unicorn sending people to the shop lol She had the benefit of a man knowing a little about business and that selling a 45000 gp item vs selling 10 gp items would make more money.
So after I got rich in game and divorced after being poor in real I decided to get rich in real then go back to the game. You can do it hope give up games for a bit and focus your energy on making loot in real and then you can go back without caring about the electric bill 🙂

I was a new employee at my job, and was sub-contracted, FUN, FUN, FUN to another firm. I got to listen, as I worked at my unpleasant job to a 40+ year old female engineer whine about how when she graduated college.. and lets skip the fact that she is an insane bitch for talking about something that happened to her 18+ years ago…. how the NASTY BAD MAN WHO WANTED TO HIRE HER said he wanted her to help make his quotas. Do to the lousy economy, and the invasion of the Hindu’s, I had much, much more difficulty getting a job when I graduated college. But could I say that her “pain” as a “strong woman” at having jobs thrown at her was, perhaps, less than my pain of trying to find an engineering job?

Of course not. Hell, it could even have been worth my job. Because in addition to being a wonderful person, she is also an intolerant bitch. And no, she wasn’t a manager, just a standard salaried female. Which makes her much more special than standard salaried males.

It’s funny that Hope calls himself a “dirty liberal” in the eyes of the right when it is the left that would crucify him if he aired these sentiments in public-not that he would ever find a forum that wouldn’t gag him.

Roissy, AMEN… I am now sending this to my brother who needs some reeducation in the matters of woman.

Kevin, AMEN. You exactly described the shit women have been trying to pull on me when I was committed to them.

Jane…

Oh Jane…

Another woman who shames and belittles us lonely poor men..

men who have more experience than the rest 95% of men…

Let me tell you something..

Whenever I employed the list Roissy wrote about on the intelligent and beautiful women I met, it worked.

Whenever I thought like a man (usually few months later), “I treat the ones with respect, the ones who treat me with respect”, I paid for it. Got shit tested, I fialed, and the relationship failed. We are talking about 8’s, 9.5’s all intelligent way oveer the average.

Yea, of course, this stuff will never work on you… Unless you put the mirror to your face and be honest to yourself.

sure a guy can keep two women in reserve but they will know they are on the back burner. if they are quality girls they will dissapear, if they are not you have a fighting chance of keeping them on said burner but if its goes tits up with number one lady you wont want sad, desperate, not nearly as attractive as number one girl. cos that wont stroke your ego enough.

Sungirltan, I think that depends on whether or not the other two are on reserve or parallel. As a bisexual woman, until I moved to a place where the Lesbians all seem to disappear at the age of 25, I always made it clear that I am polyamorous, and that I *can* be monogamous, but won’t without good reason.

This sort of thing works well with male partners too. As I’ve said before, gender is fluid, and now that we don’t really need men for money anymore, they’re free to express their feminine side without it emasculating them. Even a very strong man enjoys being loved, and on the real, every man with a drop of testosterone likes to compete.

Many of these commandments could work just as well for a dominant woman, as long as she can remember that she’s the woman even though she’s the more dominant partner. Never let your head get twisted up by yo biatches. 😉

nicole – yes perhaps you are right but i thought alot about the player type guys i know. theres one or two who can live by these comic book rules and score the pretty girls and more importantly impress the hell out of their mates. these guys are very good looking and have a head start. also they get stung by women all the time because they play the game so ahrd and forget that women do too. another thought i had was that the reserve girls act as a rest stop/ego stroke when premier girl is hard to get.

meanwhile i just wish i could see pictures of all the ‘amen’ guys above. i’m sure you all look like george clooney, just sure of it!!

Sungirltan, yes too many guys do forget that many women have game as well. In fact, those of us who don’t have mainstream looks usually have game. It’s a kind of a trade-off.

It also varies a bit from culture to culture. Here in Israel I found myself in the position of being extremely socially inconvenient to the vast majority of men here because of my ethnicity. I was never as hard core in the U.S. as I am here. I didn’t need to be.

But I’m a quick study. 🙂

Here, I’ve been the reserve girl, and learned alot in that position for awhile. One funny thing I figured out is that reserve girls are not only the ones that guys go to for ego stroking when the premier girls are hard to get….they’re also the ones that guys cheat with once they’ve done their social duty and reproduced with the premier girl.

nicole – re the cheating threory – yes i concurr- but then being the one they cheat with isnt much of a result either unless thats truly what you want. different strokes n all that.

usually lurking- yes im postive that attempting to be a player helps you transcend your self imposed ‘average’ status and shoves you right up there into the premier league. i mean i wouldnt date an average guy but hell!! if he’s a total wanker – well thats a different story!!

“Read through the commandments and construct their opposites, e. g. I. Be the first to say I love you, II. Never make her jealous, III., Make her your priority. (Sorta works until you get to XIV., Fuck her badly). What you’re left with is a picture of premature sacrifice on the guy’s part, which cedes control of the relationship to the woman and makes him feel heroic. L&K Roissy’s advice is powerful precisely because it contravenes nature. It’s a superb effort to shift the locus of control closer to the middle, where it belongs.”

What Roissy’s overarching game rules do is not so much contravene nature, as contravene Western social conditioning, particularly in the Anglosphere. Not nearly so much in more macho cultures. This much predates feminism, but feminism has only amplified the problem / worked to emasculate males into safe and female controlable beta boys. The chivalric ideal was taken to it’s greatest and most lasting extremes in Britain esp. post the middle ages. Even James Bond, who was the iconic Anglosphere movie player over the last four decades or so, was also always chivalrous. He had to always risk his life (often apparently hopelessly) to save any woman he had a romantic interest in, even if he was finished with her. (It’s always blurry and unaddressed re: other less hot women.)

A long attempt at an answer would be quite a lot of work, going through it rule by rule as Whiskey did (and I more disagree with Whiskey than agree on this point by point).

My short answer is that most of these rules need to be kept up, or occassionaly used in a commited LTR, but nothing like as much as when in dating attraction phase.

For example, telling a woman she’s beautiful is something you really need to do a whole lot once in a LTR, esp. as she starts aging. (Of course it helps a lot if she’s taking care of herself and if she isn’t e.g. working out she should and you have to tell her so, tactfully, you should.) Really what you’re aiming for most though is “uniquely and powerfully beautiful TO YOU”. Picking out some feature which not so many others have focused on and loving that (really, and in part acting => real) is part of it. Of course you don’t want to send the message “yeah I think you’re beautiful but no one else does.

But many other things on the list you should do after being in a LTR / marriage, just less. Even shit testing, IF she’s shit testing you. I.e., back off my beautiful bitch, and chase me some again – subliminal message. You do want a LITTLE jealousy going too. Not in the sense of you’re a hair’s breath away from cheating on her with some younger woman, but in the sense that other very attractive women find you sexy. (Sexy is WAY better than “you’re so lucky to have your husband” though that’s somewhat positive too. The later could mean “you’ve got him so well trained, fortunate you”.

I think it depends on the situation. I wouldn’t want to be the primary or secondary partner of a loser.

I wouldn’t mind however, sharing a guy who’s good, but whose wife doesn’t want to have sex with him for reasons that don’t have to do with his being a failure. Lots of women have a low sex drive, or are completely sexually dysfunctional. I don’t think it’s a good thing for a guy to walk out on a good woman with one little problem, if she’s otherwise a good partner. He should be able to nurture and maintain that connection without sex clouding his vision.

Problem is that with monogamy being the socially enforced facade, a guy has trouble if he gives his mistresses due respect. The wife will usually demand that he be monogamous with her, even if she doesn’t want to have sex with him. Sounds ridiculous when you see it written out, but I know of quite a few couples exactly like this…the wife attempting to use sex to control her man.

@ nicole. indeed monogamy may be a socially enforced facade but if you get married you’re signing up to that willingly. For better, for worse. Regular sex isn’t ac married man’s ultimate right!
I had a debate with my partenr recently about this since we are trying for a baby. I said ‘well when i’m really heavy i might not be that up for it’ so he replies ‘ well do you mind if i look at porn’ ‘yes i do mind – if im too tired/fat to have sex you should be looking after me and our baby, not fussing about your minor needs!!’

I was wondering like I always have my female under control and I always go in there keeping my eyes on the prize. But it was this one chick and she was super beautiful and everything was going well and she told me a whole lot of good things and use to call and text me everyday all day..And suddenly it stopped. So I started to think that is was another guy but she telling me that she is busy.
But she was making time the first time and telling me that I am the exact type of guy that she wanted. So she basically gamed me..I started believing her..And then I let my feeling get involved..Then she stopped texting and calling..And she would text and call back when she feels like it.
So basically I was in control at first and she ended up getting into control..And now I have not talked to her for 2 weeks now and I texted her 3 times out of that two weeks..So I want to know what can I do to get back in control because to make it worse is I didn’t even fuck her..And I stayed with her but didn’t try..And now I wish I would have tried to fuck her..So what can I do to get back in control…

I wasn’t doing it as a game I was talking to her and let my feeling get involved basically..And I screwed up..But that was my mistake and I noticed it..But it will not happen again…Fool me one once shame on them fool me twice shame on me…

nicole, monogamy to me, means signing up for taking the rough with the smooth and being prepapred to occasionally forgo your own needs for a while to meet the needs of your partner – that is if your shared goal is staying together.

i like to think that as a society we’re outgrown the notion of conjucal (sic) rights.

sex is an exchange, directly and indirectly. if your partner has misplaced their sex drive at least make some effort to help them find it again y working out what their needs might be and i dont mean nagging that your horny!!

mick – she’s put you on the backburner. in the same way that i’d tell my girlfriends not to tolerate being made to wait until a guy can be bothered i suggest you move on. however, if she calls you next week and says ‘hey im so sorry, i had so much shit to deal with etc’ be sympathetic – she might not feel she knows you well enough to tell you if something difficult has happened

sungirltan- indeed she did…cause like she didn’t talk to me in like a week before that then when we talked she talked as if nothing happen and still talking about hanging out with me and stuff like that..But when we started talking I know she was going to be busy so its not no surprise but the problem I got is that she is not hitting me up at all now..When we talked she was calling me nicknames..So I don’t know if she really is busy, or its another guy, or she is just trying to keep me around..Its hard to tell..But I am not going to call or send anymore texts and if she call or whatever I am going to talk like nothing happen like I did before and try to see her. So what you say…I am so mad I let my feelings get caught up in her and I usually don’t do that but she told me a sad story and I felt sorry for her..I was a fool now for falling for it. But I think she will call but I don’t know when..But she do have a lot going on so that’s what make it confusing..But she was making a little time at first but stopped…

Again, Sungirl, monogamy and celibacy are not the same thing. It is typical of scam artists to claim that it’s the sucker’s fault.

…but this is why so many men don’t marry legally nowadays. With women being twisted enough to try to trap them into celibate marriages without allowing them to get their needs met elsewhere on penalty of losing their family and half their assets, I don’t blame them at all.

you know what nicole – i’m not buying that its the woman’s fault. men who cheat will cheat, men who don’t cheat stay faithful because they love/respect/value their partners, not because every one of their perceived needs are met

Cheating…you do realize don’t you, that this word covers more than extramarital sex…and not all extramarital sex is cheating.

I believe that a woman is cheating her husband by enforcing celibacy when the agreement was monogamy. If she doesn’t want to provide him with sex, she should free him to pursue that with others, either by giving him explicit permission to take other lovers, or by divorcing him without penalties.

Temporary lags are one thing, but to think a man should stop wanting sex just because his wife does is preposterous.

I would never do such a horrible thing to someone I love.

You can do whatever you feel you can get away with. I’m just saying that to me it seems awfully dishonest to trap people. That you don’t see it as dishonest also looks to me like you’re one of those women who’s due for a big check from Reality Inc.

well, i’m not hugely familiar with anything i could describe as ‘enforced celibacy’. what i am saying is that both partners are responsible for the quality/quantity of their sex lives. can every philanderer honestly say they tried everything to get their wife/partner to re engage before they justified a fling? i think not.

furthermore alot of cheating isnt really about sex at all. its about attention and support or just uncomplicated interaction.

[…] reason or any initial evidence – that defines you as an attractive man (see also point XI of this accurate list of maxims). If you need empirical proof or validation, you are needy (of proof or validation) and therefore […]

I am a 60 year old woman, and one of the top 10 richest women in the world – really. I spent 30 years dating such game-playing empty-hearted jerks, and ending up heart broken. One day, I met an honest man, with his heart out on a plate. I fell in love, true love, instantly. We have been together ever since, had children and we are now facing death together – we are both going to die within about a year, of cancer. Indeed, the alpha male will die alone, full of … s… emptiness — because he has no heart, no brain and no God. A wasted life to vanity. He just did not know any better.

I read every commandment and I thought it was brilliant. The thing is, I am the girlfriend of the ULTIMATE alpha male. I know my boyfriend is an asshole at times, but it is sad to say I am willing to put up with his dick-sh ways because he abides by these rules TO A T! Does this make me a vegetable that will end up alone, and without him if I don’t submit to him? Or the fact that I recognize this game, and use it to my advantage make me pretty fucking smart?

btw, he spoils the hell out of me. He is 40 years old now and says that I am “so lucky,” that I got ‘this,’ version of him. Apparently, he was FAR worse when he was younger and I got the “nice,” version of him! ***A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.*** THIS IS SOOOOO TRUE. He is smart now though, he does tell me how beautiful I am (not super often, but he does) He doesn’t have a girl on the sidelines (he would never do anything to tarnish his SUPERIOR character as a man) Also, he doesn’t adhere to the golden ratio (we’ve been together for over a year so there is no cell phone text messages dramas) Umm, and he also wasn’t sexually aggressive on our first date. Other than that, he is exactly what the commandments describe.

So, I have a girlfriend and I’m pretty confident that I’m quite alpha. However, i really liker her. blasphemy, i know but i do. should I ever be jealous? i mean if she flirts with guys in fornt of me or hangs out with guys shes fucked before alone should i say anything or just act totally unphased? wheres the limit between indifference and being a pushover?

“….with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.”

i cant read this SHIT anymore, my NOW ex acts just like this, and ive grown to fucking hate him in only 6 months. Holy fuck now i know who to blame, Dick heads like u who give advice that is MESSED UP and UN FAIR …….shovenist pigs fuck it im lesbian now

What is amazing is that so many commenters actually think this to be good advise. Follow this advise, and it may work for a while, but eventually your woman will leave you. It may take 6 days, 6 months or 26 years, but eventually she will see you for the ass you are. Ask me how I know.

Behavior like this actually shows that you do not have the self confidence to truly engage in a adult relationship.

This shit infuriates me. No woman wants to be treated that way. Eventually she won’t be able to take it anymore and will explode! I just got in a nasty insult fest over txt msg last night cuz of this kind of shit. I certainly won’t be seeing him again.