I wanted to post this here, because I believe that people who read & write stories need their fluff to be believable.

The problem when you hang out with engineers is that they have a way of destroying fantasies.

A friend of mine went through the fluff and pointed out that there is a gap in the “hiding in tunnels” idea. And according to Phase I - this idea justifies the existence of the Resistance in the first place.

Since he is directly involved in tunnel construction he pointed out that most tunnels on an earth like planet would start to flood after 48 hours without proper maintenance.

Even with the super pumps of the future – all the Scourge would have to do is: Destroy the pumps and check out the areas where they are miraculously repaired. And even without meddling Scourge (in case they don’t care) after a few decades – burst pipes should drown whatever is down there.

So, what do you think?

Does that deserve (at least) a footnote or is it irrelevant

Regards

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man ON fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...

I think that's not the only problem with the resistance. For instance, they have tyres. I'm quite happy to accept small difficulties like this, when the overarching narrative is good, and the game is fun. Both of these are true for me.

Yeah there are a bunch of things that sort of suspend belief when it comes to the Resistance, like how UCM Recon teams can locate them pretty quickly while the Scourge haven't been able to do it in 2 centuries.

My take on the Resistance is that they really aren't as hunted as the literature suggests. They are primarily engaged when they are an actual threat to the overarching mission of the Scourge. Think of it in a cost/benefit way: do the Scourge know free humans are scurrying around, of course. Does it make logistical sense to hunt down all of them, at huge expense? No, not if they aren't actively damaging Scourge infrastructure or inhibiting the Scourge mission/goals. If you know roaches are scurrying around under your floor are you going to rip up your carpet/floorboards to kill them? No, that would be silly. You lay poison, kill the easily accessible ones, and forget about the rest until they show themselves. In the tunnel example, sure the Scourge could have flooded them, but maybe keeping infrastructure intact was more important than killing a few insignificant freedom fighters.

IMO, the Resistance thinks they are more important than they actually are, and their unimportance is the reason they have survived.

As a geologist who's studied and worked with a fair bit of tunnelling, I can categorically say that your misgivings are well founded. But, there's just so much technically wrong with the idea of the rag-tag, perpetually hunted Resistance living underground for ~200 years, that you sort of have to give up on any expectations of reality and just play the game

One point though - the flooding tunnel issue would depend wholly on the depth to the water table, and the volume of rainfall in the area. In arid areas, no problems. Most other areas - problems. The biggest issue in ANY tunnel of any size though, would be ventilation. Doesn't take much digging before air gets stale, full of dust, and toxic to life if it isn't changed out fairly often. Forget your exhaust ports - fire a couple of proton torpedoes down the ventilation shafts!

Ruarl wrote:I'm quite happy to accept small difficulties like this, when the overarching narrative is good, and the game is fun. Both of these are true for me.

+1

Creeping Dementia wrote:IMO, the Resistance thinks they are more important than they actually are, and their unimportance is the reason they have survived.

+1

Bazlord101 wrote: But, there's just so much technically wrong with the idea of the rag-tag, perpetually hunted Resistance living underground for ~200 years, that you sort of have to give up on any expectations of reality and just play the game

+1

I totally agree (!!) - but since we are in the writing section and DzC is fictional (I hope) - I think the most pressing WTF-points could be addressed by a single sentence in the fluff section of the rulebooks.

Like: Why haven't the skyscrapers toppled yet / Why are the buildings in such a good condition? "Without the Armorplast exterior (/the invention of XXX) all these buildings would be nothing but rubble"

Or: "Ventilation/Why haven't the tunnels flooded""[...] when she felt a fresh breeze on her face. It always felt like a miracle that the lost knowledge of the forefathers allowed them the luxury of fresh air this far underground"

These sentences could then be quoted and allow for an even more realistic feel to the game.We could maybe collect some of the worst bugs/gaps, write a short fluff sentence and send it to Hawk?!

What do you think?!

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man ON fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...

Ljevid wrote:Like: Why haven't the skyscrapers toppled yet / Why are the buildings in such a good condition? "Without the Armorplast exterior (/the invention of XXX) all these buildings would be nothing but rubble"

Or: "Ventilation/Why haven't the tunnels flooded""[...] when she felt a fresh breeze on her face. It always felt like a miracle that the lost knowledge of the forefathers allowed them the luxury of fresh air this far underground"

These sentences could then be quoted and allow for an even more realistic feel to the game.We could maybe collect some of the worst bugs/gaps, write a short fluff sentence and send it to Hawk?!

What do you think?!

I like it! Yeah, it doesn't have to take much, or be fully explained, I guess.

Its true that the water would invariably drown the underground resistance when the scourge broke the pumps. Much like modern day London, without the Thames barrier there would be a lot of problems containing the river Thames at sea swell and stopping it infiltrating the London underground.

But there I think there is cause for this not to happen. Not because the resistance would keep it going but more because the scourge have no cause to destroy the pumps in the first place. In fact it would probably be in the scourges interest to keep them going.

1. Protect their own industry. The scourge assimilate human structures. Should they flood all the under city those tunnels and supports will start to fatigue and collapse leading to sinkholes, subsidence and eventually buildings failing due to unstable ground. 160 years is a long enough time for that to start happening on a large scale. It would be smarter for the scourge to maintain anything that protect their interests.

2. More meat.Its said the scourge would raid the tunnels once a resistance band became large enough to make harvesting it worthwhile. The scourge may be treating the resistance as a larder they can dip in and out of now and again to replenish numbers when it suits them. To wipe them out might seem pragmatic in the short term but with them running out of bodies to infest it might make sense for them to protect and even in some odd cases encourage growth of underground resistance for taking later.

3. Not all that bothered. While formidable on the table top its made mention of several times in the phase 1 rulebook that the scourge couldn't really care about the resistance as long as they are out of their way.

What about some sort of hydrophobic membranes within the tunnel structure. We have already made some pretty amazing hydrophobic materials. Fast forwards a few hundred tears and who knows what we could make.

Here in the USA there are a couple of locations with massive underground cavern structures, Carlsbad and Blanchard Springs, carved out by time and geologic action. Who knows what what the geology is of the core planets. If enough space was naturally hollowed out, then colonist might find a ready made home with water for sustenance and power generation. Dare I say a "dwarvish" culture could have evolved from this starting point.In our own reality, there are theories now that our own moon has openings that lead under the surface. These would be the best places to start a colony, No temperature fluctuation, seal the entrance(s) and the easiest areas to pressurize an atmosphere, and perhaps the best place to mine the massive amounts of H3.