I meant 'recover from a weird roll' as in UNFUCKULATE the lines completely so you can keep shredding. Not get the kite back in the sky flying so you can go back to the beach and land and fix it.

I kite often in a flatwater spot that requires a long broad reach to get to, and with a LOW SPLIT, after rolling the kite inside-over and crossing my lines up, I can unleash, unhook and pass the bar through the split to fix the entire situation. If I'm flying a kite with a high split, I can get the kite flying but its session over and time to limp back home.

technique. bitch please

Oh I see now must be shit kites because you say so Wow I sell my Torches now, what are the best kites to "shred" on O greatness

I'm not saying that they're shit, some people like the way they fly, but their bar system on both kites has been 'developed' into a product with flaws (in my opinion).

5th really does make relaunching easier - especially if you got nothing to get any pressure against the kite. Good advice here about digging in water earier on bails - tried it - sometime works to prevent torch insideout of split y bridle

I meant 'recover from a weird roll' as in UNFUCKULATE the lines completely so you can keep shredding. Not get the kite back in the sky flying so you can go back to the beach and land and fix it.

I kite often in a flatwater spot that requires a long broad reach to get to, and with a LOW SPLIT, after rolling the kite inside-over and crossing my lines up, I can unleash, unhook and pass the bar through the split to fix the entire situation. If I'm flying a kite with a high split, I can get the kite flying but its session over and time to limp back home.

technique. bitch please

Oh I see now must be shit kites because you say so Wow I sell my Torches now, what are the best kites to "shred" on O greatness

I'm not saying that they're shit, some people like the way they fly, but their bar system on both kites has been 'developed' into a product with flaws (in my opinion).

I think Ludmil is referring to the 5th line, 4 line kite you can untangle lines by passing bar through lines after a roll, 5th line you can't.

Nothing wrong with Torch but you fly what suits you best, if you don't like 5th line then that's your opinion but it's not a fault with the kite.

Yes 5th line wraps can be a pain and do happen but Ive got used to them, learn to not do the things that case wraps don't happen much these days

I know...Despite Dirk explains his concerns /don`t know his actual experience/ he mentioned "both kites"and that was the way to understand which he refers to - Park mentioned by PP or Torch and Vegas .From my point of view,concerning flat water conditions the whole "5th line tangling problem" is nonsence, especially in suicide mode.I rode 4line hybrid w/ low V for a season, after years of riding Torches. Now I`m back.Believe it or not I had more difficulties relaunching the 4 liner.As for the inverting issue according to me 4 liners are more prone to that.On the other hand in most cases to pass the bar through the tangled lines when the kite is pulling you remains a good wish /at least for me,had line tahgled around my leg/.

Well I pretty much crash my kite every tack, so when you 5th line wrap 5% of the time you crash your kite, and the tiny, crowded launch means a bunch of dicking around in boots or sharp rocks I like to be able to fix it on the water. Pride myself on it.

In terms of flaws (or call it 'product development, flaw is pejorative?): I don't see the advantage of the "high split" in gains in flying performance, relaunch, and easy line replacement vs. full length 5th & front lines.

and just to show you i'm not prejudiced otherwise, i was going to edit a sweet clip i have of jesse richman shredding hard on the 2014 torch, but i just worked 12.5 hours so i'm going to rest so i can work 12 again.

i been riding a vegas a bit and really like it - you can unhook without having to worry about oversheeting or turning while depowered which always does my head in about torch relaunched ok too. I want to go back to full length 5th line with release like the old fuels - i can continue to have a session even with the 5th flying around no worries. Roll a torch out to sea between the y bridle and it can be game over, have managed to fly it real twisted up before tho but not always possible. The combat is very easy to launch with 5th.

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