At some point solely by numbers, 93 is power and 92 is not, I suppose. I have no idea where the line is.

It's not just velocity, it's also about command, usage, angle, movement, all sorts of stuff. I don't think anybody here is claiming that Quintana is a fireball guy like Aroldis Chapman, we're just suggesting the idea that he's a soft-tossing junkballer magician is a bit untrue, as well.

It's not just velocity, it's also about command, usage, angle, movement, all sorts of stuff. I don't think anybody here is claiming that Quintana is a fireball guy like Aroldis Chapman, we're just suggesting the idea that he's a soft-tossing junkballer magician is a bit untrue, as well.

Before any of those things though, he's a guy with an extremely hidden ball. The discussion on Jose Quintana's effectiveness has to start there, because that's what sets him up for success. He hides it like a champ. I don't care if he's a fireballer or not (he's not though), more than anything it's the deception that defines him and allows him to be so effective. Take it away, and he's not going to be the same pitcher.

No it isn't. He did lose velocity this year (which is actually worrisome). But he throws on average a lot harder than Quintana (MORE than 2mph) and dials it up to 98 (whereas he used to be able to dial it up to over 100). It's a whole other league of velocity. The only reason to think there's not a line between these guys is to ignore reality. Quintana's TOP speed that he barely throws is closer to Sale's average fastball than Quintana's average fastball velocity is to Sale's average.

No it isn't. He did lose velocity this year (which is actually worrisome). But he throws on average a lot harder than Quintana (MORE than 2mph) and dials it up to 98 (whereas he used to be able to dial it up to over 100). It's a whole other league of velocity. The only reason to think there's not a line between these guys is to ignore reality. Quintana's TOP speed that he barely throws is closer to Sale's average fastball than Quintana's average fastball velocity is to Sale's average.

Here we go again on Quintana; personally who gives a rats ass as long as he gets the job done. Back to Granderson I'm good with it.

Before any of those things though, he's a guy with an extremely hidden ball. The discussion on Jose Quintana's effectiveness has to start there, because that's what sets him up for success. He hides it like a champ. I don't care if he's a fireballer or not (he's not though), more than anything it's the deception that defines him and allows him to be so effective. Take it away, and he's not going to be the same pitcher.

If so, they haven't found it in 2 years. It's a little like saying if pitcher X loses his ability to hit the corners, or loses velocity, he won't be as effective.

Still, he's the pitcher I'd trade because we'd be selling high for a change.