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to actually manage to successfully trick someone into giving them money? I didn't think ANYONE would be dumb enough to send money (often thousands of dollars) to a complete stranger in another country, who approaches you over the internet, but nope, I googled it and saw LOTS of news stories about people who lost their life savings to online scammers.

I hope that most people are not that dumb and I would like to think that most people, even if they are not initially aware it is a scam, would cease contact immediately with someone once asked for money... but I don't know.

On average, how many people do you think scammers have to message and chat to before they find someone who will give them money? maybe 1 person in every 100 sends them money? 1 in every 500?

No way of knowing for certain, but I am interested... what do you think?

Joker*** BANNED ***

Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 1123

Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:52 am

Just one. The right one with the right method of scamming or the right scam format. With so many different types of scams out there one has to be believable to everyone.... including you and me. FYI I have been scammed once trying to buy a computer online on fleabay. It happens. You pick yourself up and move on hopefully with a lesson learned. There is a format for everyone.

As for the more laughable formats I will agree that is takes a special person to get hit by those but why else would they be still in circulation is not profitable. You see that term 'dumb' is a bit derogatory in my mind if you happen to look into some of the victims of those scams. I would hardly call the elderly person suffering from some form of dementia dumb and the same would go with someone suffering a mental handicap of some sort, say aspergers or downs or any other number of handicaps out there. I would just tend to call them handicapped. Then there are the people who are new to computers. The elderly in a brave and new world, those in a developing country learning new technology that could help bring business and money to them and their fledgling country, or perhaps those that take to online dating and become attached and emotionally manipulated.

There is a scam for everyone. As for the numbers, hard to say but there is a reason a lot of the more laughable scam formats are blanketed out in mass as it may actually be 1 in 500 that bite. For the 5 minutes it took to blanket out a scam format with a spamming script though, all it takes is one over the course of time though. That is all that matters and why some choose to fight back.

_________________All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu, The Art of Warلئيم كافر

TerranceBoyceElite Baiter

Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 1658
Location: Where ever I lay my hat

Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:29 am

Somewhere between 1% and 3% I reckon 'ordinaryday' depending on the type of scam they're doing and how they're working it.

I enjoy examining the psychology behind scamming as often the tactics the scammer uses work for baiting though, of course, I'm not angling for money.

In trying to hook ad scammers I don't want to go as far as posting fake ads myself or applying to buy things that I judge are posted by scammers. By knowing how the scammer works I can avoid doing that and jump in on them knowing they won't see my approach as being by a baiter. I operate as they do and take advantage of the fact that they don't know who they've contacted.

Even at a rate of 1% the scammer makes a very good living and wont have to work, so any economy that has scamming as a major component is virtually a zombie economy. The young and enthusiastic workers see it as the most lucrative option and fraud and deceit become an accepted part of everyday life.

_________________ x 23

"I have not hard form you, the so called G0MER is a thief" Loan Lad who appeared to be expecting more than just money
"I go faint if una nor help me" Loan Lad
"We bring to your humble knowledge that you should mind your ill mannered language you use to the public" Lotto Lad
"I am not interested in fraudulent matters you are trying to engage me in stealing" 419 scammer
"Your nurse is trying to do something evil i must warn you"

Big AlBaiting Guru

Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 5054
Location: Winter is Coming....

Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:41 am

I agree with Joker on the "dumb" part. There are many victims who are fully capable and well educated people. They just met the wrong dirtbag online (Or elsewhere) and got their life set into a turmoil. Some scammers are VERY patient and will just chat up their victims for months before they ask for anything. They sometimes start small and work their way up to thousands. Before the victim ever realizes they've been duped it's already too late. Some work in Gangs and will start to deprive their victims of sleep. Lack of sleep can break someone's will to resist down making them more vulnerable.

next victimBaiting Guru

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 21168

Posted:
Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:35 pm

I got an ASEM from a lad the other day with a whole list of CC addy's. I think some may have been baiters but the rest are uncertain. I did not bothering counting but there are at least 100. They do try to stay under the SPAM radar when they mail but then a gang may have more than one lad bombing addresses for the rest.

Victims are in no way dumb. The may be unaware or maybe even the right person has used that one thing they did not think of to con them. We all know Joker is not dumb and he was taken.

Blaming the victim is a wrong way to view this. Given the correct set of circumstances pretty much anyone could be taken in if they do not know.

I recently had a pissed off lad (can't imagine why he was mad...maybe it was the money in his account that he lost when it was magically closed) decide to "get back at me" by using my baiter address as the "from" for one of his blasts.

I immediately had over 5,000 "undeliverable" messages in my spam folder, so that's just the addresses that were no good. These lads send a LOT of this crap!

- Why do you give shit about who i scammed you have to stop sticking ur nose on my shoes. Because it doesn't fit your noses
- Please bring me back before i hit my brain on a pan.
- This business is not like selling shoes and clothes in the market sir.

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 1348
Location: In the back room, being naughty

Posted:
Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:41 am

Joker wrote:

... say aspergers or downs or any other number of handicaps out there....

Us "aspies" may be different, but we're far from mentally handicapped. I make a pretty good living annoying people in court. We'd probably be more likely to correct the lad's grammar and send that back to him.

_________________ x 134 known, lost count since then -- thanks to Dharma for this one.
x 188
A.Z. 2013-2015
"If You can't figure out the scanner find someone smart to do it ok?"
"KISS YOUR INHERITANCE GOOD BYT DUMP ASS"
"its [wo]men like you who truly ruin my days."
"Do you realize that you have pushed me to tears?"
"I pray you die of horrible disease in Jesus name for wasting my time. The is serious business."

Joker*** BANNED ***

Joined: 26 Jul 2012
Posts: 1123

Posted:
Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:10 am

^ Sorry Rowan, no offense meant and I know what you mean by how capable people with Asperger's can be. In many areas they make 'normal' people look like blithering idiots when it comes to finding that niche or area of expertise.

I guess I am mainly trying to say if a scammer can see a way to take advantage of who we are at the core (God given abilities + beliefs) they will do it as they really have no conscience. They really do not care if grandma is in the early stages of dementia or Alzheimer's and not thinking straight. They will take the nest egg any old way they can get it.

_________________All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu, The Art of Warلئيم كافر

Again, the victim was carefully worked from multiple angles, and at the end, even when facing prison time, wasn't totally convinced that the whole thing was a scam.

_________________ x59 x5 The Chairman's Xmas Parti 2012 Lagos-Natitingou w/Team Sley
William Brent Christian 8/2012 - present 'WE ARE STILL WAITING''i hate the fact that i come online everyday to send you emails and all i get is disappointment every time' - Silk
'keep your money ok. we dont need it. have a bless day' - Barrister Douglas Brown
'YOU ARE A BASTARD AND A FOOL' - Dr. Ugo Peters
'I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE MAN IN THE WESTERN UNION IS A CRIMINAL AND A LOW LIFE CHEAT' - Dr. Ugo Peters
'tell your stupid prostitute step dauther never to play with the tail of a tigger' - Capt. Anita George (US Army)

tazmanian419Eater is my life

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 309
Location: A long way from where they think!

Posted:
Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:15 pm

By pure coincidence I've just watched that film rattlesnake linked to before reading this thread.

The film claims to be based on real events, but then they said that about 'The Amityville Horror', too. I can't find any record of the victim's name in any news article. (If it is true, it's tragic.)

Anyway, the victim in the film was an international broker. Surely such a person should be the most sensitive to how legit trade is done and sensitive to any warning signs?

And I also recently saw a clip on YT regarding a heart surgeon who was scammed. As I watched, I asked myself: "How can a school teacher like me be looking a a heart surgeon and thinking how dumb he is?"

But I guess the motto is; anyone can get caught.

Anyway, my guess at the original question is that maybe 1 in 1,000 gets hooked in. Tiny return, but still lucrative.

_________________ x9 x2
"Thanks for your silent upon time wasted and disappoint of the century." - Mr. Any Ray

"If this is a game you are pulling with us please stop we are not such people you have to be playing games with." - Mr. Charn Sophonpanich

RowanElite Baiter

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 1348
Location: In the back room, being naughty

Posted:
Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:09 am

Joker wrote:

^ Sorry Rowan, no offense meant and I know what you mean by how capable people with Asperger's can be. In many areas they make 'normal' people look like blithering idiots when it comes to finding that niche or area of expertise.

I guess I am mainly trying to say if a scammer can see a way to take advantage of who we are at the core (God given abilities + beliefs) they will do it as they really have no conscience. They really do not care if grandma is in the early stages of dementia or Alzheimer's and not thinking straight. They will take the nest egg any old way they can get it.

No offense taken.

_________________ x 134 known, lost count since then -- thanks to Dharma for this one.
x 188
A.Z. 2013-2015
"If You can't figure out the scanner find someone smart to do it ok?"
"KISS YOUR INHERITANCE GOOD BYT DUMP ASS"
"its [wo]men like you who truly ruin my days."
"Do you realize that you have pushed me to tears?"
"I pray you die of horrible disease in Jesus name for wasting my time. The is serious business."

report-scam20**Spammer**

Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 2

Posted:
Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:07 pm

yes it can be 1 out of 100 depending on how good the scammer is but anyone can become a victim for sure bec its hard to identify specially if its a woman scamming that tries to get u hooked up with the fake words of love. just like this one scam article of a guy victim that ive read from *Snip*

Admin edit. Please don't link to other scam sites - Slightly.

TururutElite Baiter

Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 1586
Location: Lost in translation

Posted:
Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:39 am

I guess they do a "mixed strategy".
You know that when it comes to leaving descendency animals either 1) Hatch millions of eggs hoping that a couple will survive or 2) Have little descendents but make sure all of them grow up to adults. Lads do both, they send their formats to thousands of people but take great care of those who respond. In fact they don't need many paying victims to live a life beyond the wildest dreams of his countrymen.
See what I mean.
GDP per capita in Nigeria was $1,490 USD as of 2011. In Ghana, $1,670 so imagine. A scammer with two paying victims can double or triple what an Ordinary Joe makes in a year in a matter of months.
So, even if one out of 1,000 potential mugus actually sends any money, they can make quite a good life of it, more if they're good at their job and don't let them go.

_________________ x28
Parti Boi. x2 x3 Xmas Parti 2012 Lagos-Natitingou, Lagos-Parakou-Kandi, Benin City- S4fari Hotel Kano A 419 picked me up, took my bag and ran away - have did a lot for Gomer but nothing good come out, every time different trip and they always mess up at last, why? Benin Republic mess up, Kano state in Nigeria mess up, Safari Camp also mess up - am really ashamed of my self in street My wife divorce our marraige because I failed to provide proper maintenance of the family.

BearSeasonElite Baiter

Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 1066

Posted:
Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:51 am

If you take some time to bait these guys, you'll soon discover that a lad will identify whatever your weakness is and exploit the hell out of it. Victims are most certainly not dumb. Vulnerable but not dumb.

_________________THIS IS TO INFORM YOU THAT WE ARE DONE WITH ALL THIS YOUR CHILD'S PLAY...PLEASE IT IS ENOUGH. - Jeff
i can believe that all this will be happened to me why me why me / all my future had scatted - Rechel
you are a man that did not go to the four wall of any school at all. - Attorney Sarah Nan
U 2 go fuck yourself ! I don't need the money and stop emailing me please / BASTARD!!!! / fuck ur family
<a href="/forum/donate.php">Where all the cool kids are.</a> x 47 x 2 x 2

there is no aspect of the human mind that cannot be seen as a vulnerability. Whatever your scammer is can be used against him. Once you've done this a few times and sent them round the pole with frustration, you will see how easy it is for them to get money out of victims. The methods are identical.

_________________"I still have your name tattoo on me. No woman want me because of this"
"Baster ScamBaiter like you. just leave me alone, and delete my email from you least"

CowboyhenkHello I'm New here!

Joined: 01 May 2013
Posts: 3

Posted:
Wed May 01, 2013 10:22 pm

I'm interrested in their conversion rates as well.

From reading some of the baiting succes-stories, my guess is a lot of these lads play the numbers game. Using some guessed numbers:

Let's say the average victim loses 10K$, then the scammer can figure out how many replies to spam he needs, how many communications/emails he needs and thus how many spam he needs to send to earn an income.

For instance, to get 1 victim, he needs to receive 100 replies. To get 100 replies, he needs to send out to 5000 emailadresses. Take into account the time he spends on massmailing / replying, and you can figure out a scammers hourly income. Considering the wages in the countries of origin, my guess even scammers with bad conversion rates, a 'buckshot' approach, (need a lot of spam and replies to get a victim) still make a locally competitive 'salary'.

Personally, I'm more worried of the example in the youtube link by Rattlesnake. A more targetted approach. Seems those scammers have quite a bit more intelligence and ability to establish a base of trust prior to ensnaring their victim. Most people are pretty suspicious by nature toward strangers, but a slower approach as in the youtube link can bring down a lot of those defenses.

- Why do you give shit about who i scammed you have to stop sticking ur nose on my shoes. Because it doesn't fit your noses
- Please bring me back before i hit my brain on a pan.
- This business is not like selling shoes and clothes in the market sir.

The old style script had you sent (by people) the standard script and when you took the bait or they ran out of script, you were handed on to the next step on the ladder. Paying you did only with the "Boss" as it was to risky to have MG or WU info accessible for the lower ranks. Now they operate more alone as the availability of computers has improved and you stick with the same person the whole story.

Your question; as many as they can sent to improve their profit, they never have enough, that's why claiming their time works!

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