CCL self-defense shooting

Im getting early word that a CCL holder shot and killed a would-be armed robber at the Target at 33rd and Damen right off the Stevenson Expressway. I dont any further detail but always remember to keep your head up and keep armed especially around this time of year when predators are out in force.

But, at least his 'victim' wasn't in the mortality stats. The bad guy earned his prize but it still isn't a good situation.

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Saw this on the 9:00 news last night as it was still breaking. The news girl couldn't have said enough times how there are cameras all over the parking lot. I don't blame the shooter for fleeing. These thieves hide out like cockroaches. For all he knew, there might have been 3 more robbers all within range. Lets see if they give any more info on this soon..

Saw this on the 9:00 news last night as it was still breaking. The news girl couldn't have said enough times how there are cameras all over the parking lot. I don't blame the shooter for fleeing. These thieves hide out like cockroaches. For all he knew, there might have been 3 more robbers all within range. Lets see if they give any more info on this soon..

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

If there was a struggle, where you get shot may not be relevant.

Absolutely! However, on initial view, it doesn't look good without further explanation and investigation.

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

Read up on "falling through the plane of fire." Guy was shot multiple times. Perhaps one went through the back. Not uncommon as the person getting shot is falling. Let's not jump to conclusions.

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

Read up on "falling through the plane of fire." Guy was shot multiple times. Perhaps one went through the back. Not uncommon as the person getting shot is falling. Let's not jump to conclusions.

As I said, it's certainly within the realm of possibility, but will demand a closer examination to ensure they know what happened.

According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.
Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.

Which article was that? The one from WGN I read didnt mention any arrests or charges.

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

One report I read said the shooter and the robber were struggling inside the vehicle. The instinct to turn away from danger could easily account for that. Robber sees gun, flinches and gets one through the back. If the robber was in the passenger seat I can also understand the shooter fleeing. My first thoughts would be his buddies coming to the drivers side of the car.

According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.
Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.

Which article was that? The one from WGN I read didnt mention any arrests or charges.

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

One report I read said the shooter and the robber were struggling inside the vehicle. The instinct to turn away from danger could easily account for that. Robber sees gun, flinches and gets one through the back. If the robber was in the passenger seat I can also understand the shooter fleeing. My first thoughts would be his buddies coming to the drivers side of the car.

According to WGN they have taken the guy into custody and have already charged him.Evidently there's more to this then what was reported earlier.

Which article was that? The one from WGN I read didnt mention any arrests or charges.

Gunshot wounds to the chest and BACK? That could be troublesome. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that the bad guy gets shot in the back during a skirmish, but it certainly raises some doubt

One report I read said the shooter and the robber were struggling inside the vehicle. The instinct to turn away from danger could easily account for that. Robber sees gun, flinches and gets one through the back. If the robber was in the passenger seat I can also understand the shooter fleeing. My first thoughts would be his buddies coming to the drivers side of the car.

It was on the morning news at about 7:30AM.

Ahh ok. Was thinking it might have been TV news. I rarely watch live TV anymore.

As of this morning he been released from custody. That's something to think about. If the DGU was 100% justified this guy spent over 30 hours in police custody getting grilled. The fact that he was released without bond is a good thing. The investigation is far from over, now we have to see what forensics says. Since there is only one man left living and given the area, IMO I think the CPD was and probably still is thinking this something like a drug deal gone bad. The "robber" parks his car in the same parking lot he is going to rob people in and the victim takes off after a legal DGU? Like I said time will tell but that Nissan is a treasure trove of forensic info but it is Chicago.

I am not saying these are my opinions, I would like to think it was a good SD shoot and the guy panicked. The CPD, not so much.

I saw nothing on this in the Tribune today (12/16). I tend to think that this will be considered a good self defense shoot since the media is not going wild with major headlines about a licensed concealed carrier shooting someone illegally. If the shooter ends up being charged with a crime, I'm sure we will see the usual suspects claiming that this "proves" that ordinary, law abiding citizens should never have been allowed to legally carry a gun in Illinois.

That's MSM. If they find out that it was say a drug deal gone bad you'll read about In both the Sun Times and Trib for a week. If the police find nothing with forensics (and likely wont) then you wont hear another peep about it. I read an article this morning and actually am reminded I have to look up the new tax bill because of how badly the article was written.

You're right though, Joe Biden babbled that Stephen Willeford (the guy who stopped the church shooting in Texas from continuing into something worse) never should have owned an AR 15. if that shoot at Target was suspicious forensically then that will plastered in the papers for a week. Mary Mitchell harping "Black on Black crime is almost legal now with concealed carry."

Concealed carry license holder released after he says he shot would-be robber

Chicago police have released a concealed carry license holder who told authorities he fatally shot a would-be robber near a South Side Target store earlier this week.

The 27-year-old man was taken into custody soon after the shooting about 8 p.m. Thursday in a parking lot in the 1900 block of West 33rd Street in the McKinley Park neighborhood.
...
A Chicago police spokesman on Saturday said the man was released by Area Central detectives without criminal charges, but did not say whether investigators believe the shooting was self-defense. The case and the investigation are not closed, the spokesman said. A representative with the Cook County state's attorney's office, which prosecutes felony cases, wasn't immediately available for comment

Edited by InterestedBystander, 16 December 2017 - 07:47 PM.

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They keep calling the lawful carrier a "gunman" like he is the bad guy

Because in any shooting it is a criminal investigation. The CPD only has the facts that they were presented with. Regardless of the lawful carrier having a CCL for all intents and purposes this a criminal investigation until it is proven that the laws were followed. Like I have stated in earlier posts the police are not going to pat you on the back and say good job. You will treated as a criminal, questioned like a criminal and ultimately either vindicated or charged as a criminal. There is a dead guy and a very iffy story from the lawful carrier and forensics are going to clear him or bury him.

The belief with some CPD is this a drug deal gone wrong. The guy shot someone to death in his car, left the dead body in the parking lot, took off and had to be caught by the CPD. If the guy didn't have a CCL he would be sitting in Cook County Jail right now. The fact that he did have a CCL makes his story more plausible but some CPD that I know say this is dope deal gone wrong, the guy took off because he had to get rid of the dope and CCL or not they have many hours of this guys story on tape and his Toyota and video had better prove everything he said and says. They aren't done questioning him yet.

I am not making a judgment call here but simply stating what two CPDs have told me. They aren't buying this guys story and the investigation is just getting under way. There's the video from Target and the bank, the car, witnesses and the shooters story. If they can make a case they will, if not then it's a good shoot. A good example is did the guy have a receipt from the Target? What was on the receipt? If he never even went into the Target that puts serious doubt on his entire side of it. The detectives know what they are doing, they will give you just enough rope to hang yourself. They do this for a living.

If the same situation happened to you don't think for a second it doesn't plays out the same way. A self defense shooting is going to end up with you taking a trip to the PD in the back of the squad car. The police are there to investigate a shooting, nothing more. If you did every 100% right you are taking a ride and being questioned and then questioned some more. Even if the police shoot someone they get desk duty for a month until the shoot is cleared and it still goes on their record.

There are no good guys or bad guys when someone gets shot dead. There is a active investigation. If a cop shoots someone who has a gun they face almost the same scrutiny. You can 8 cops chasing a guy with a gun. The guy stops and fires. The 8 cops statements mean nothing because there are 50 people in the neighborhood who claim the suspect didn't even have a gun because somebody picked it up.

Basically throw the whole innocent until proven guilty thing out when it comes to a shooting, especially when there are inconsistencies in the story. It's an investigation right now. There are some big holes in this guys story. If it takes a month to clear a cop then figure at least that amount of time. The lawful carrier very well may be charged as the bad guy, the evidence has to be thoroughly examined.

Right now it is a shooting and possible murder investigation not good guys vs. bad guys.

That all being written I will give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say its a good shoot unless it is proven otherwise. I'm not as cynical as the CPD but I don't have to see crazy stuff every day and hope that when I leave for work, I make it home.

I've been there and done that owning a pawnshop on the Westside and have seen a lot of absolutely crazy violent S***.

I certainly hope I am never in the position of wondering what to do after I have shot someone in self defense, but if it happened the FIRST phone call would be to my legal defense insurance company, THEN I would call 911. My third call would be to my wife to tell her that I would likely not be coming home very soon. I would tell the police that I acted out of fear for my own life or well being, that I was the victim, and that I would be more than glad to make a full statement after I had calmed down for a day or two and had a chance to consult with my attorney. I would state that I am willing to sign a complaint, and I would point out any witnesses or physical evidence in the vicinity. Then I would not answer questions or make any further statements. I know that when a stressful situation occurs, and this would certainly qualify as a highly stressful situation, the tendency is to want to explain everything to make the police see my side of it, but I hope I can maintain my composure and just limit myself to what I stated above. Everyone reading this thread should be reminded that the police are not looking to help the shooter, but are trying to determine if they have reason to arrest and charge the shooter, so anything you say might be used to help the police do just that and they are not obligated to use anything you say which might be helpful to you. Especially if they read you your Miranda rights you should realize that you are a suspect, not a witness, and be silent accordingly. I am not an attorney and I am not providing legal advice, but just stating what I have read and believe to be the best way to handle being in this type event.

I think I would prefer to get the advice of a lawyer before saying much of anything to the police, other than what I stated in my earlier comment. I don't know that anything you say will help you, but I do know it sure can hurt you. Especially if you are upset, which is likely, you might well mis-remember some details, so when you re-tell your story for the 10th time you will have some discrepancies which well might be used against you. I think it better to wait for legal counsel, even if that means being locked up for a day while awaiting your lawyer.

Call 911, tell them there has been a shooting and give the location and hang up. If you have time call your CCL insurance company but you will have plenty of time to do that when you are sitting in the back of the squad car. They will take your gun and usually let you keep your phone.

Massad Ayoob is not an idoit and I highly recommend that you watch ALL of his videos on YouTube when you have a chance.