US Healthcare Firm Takes Over From GPs To Treat Workers On Sick Leave: NHS Privatisation Is Already Happening

As the NHS descends into chaos, a US healthcare insurance firm is quietly being installed to take over key front line services from GPs including providing certification to bosses for staff absences due to sicknesss. In addition employers are to be given tax breaks to fund medical treatment for staff when it has been recommended by these private sector healthcare professionals.

The new ‘Fit for Work’ service is to be run by Maximus in England and Wales, the same company brought in to replace Atos to carry out the despised assessments for out of work sickness and disability benefits. In a major embarrassment for DWP Ministers, Fit To Work was expected to launch late last year but so far all Maximus have managed is a website and a phoneline.

When the service is finally implemented employers will be able to refer staff to Fit for Work if they have been absent due to sickness for four weeks. GPs will have additional powers to make a referral from the first day of sickness provided the period of absence is expected to last over four weeks. The patient cannot refer themselves, although they can, at present, refuse to be referred. What employers will make of that refusal is anybody’s guess.

Once an employee starts on Fit for Work they will be handed over to Health Management Limited, a subsidiary of the private US healthcare firm Maximus. This will mean their GP will no longer have a responsibility for issuing Fit Notes and a Maximus ‘Health Professional’ – not a doctor – will certificate their sickness and liaise with their employer. The DWP are encouraging Maximus and employers to share sensitive healthcare information on patients, however the employee can refuse consent for this to happen.

Maximus will develop a Return To Work plan, based on what in most cases will be a short telephone assessment with the patient. Ominously this plan will be based on a ‘biopsychosocial’ approach – the same quackery that has caused such heart-breaking chaos in the assessment system for sickness benefits and suggests that someone’s attitude or psychological state may be the driving factor of their illness.

Not only will Maximus now be responsible for certificating sickness, but they will also be able to recommend treatment to try and force the patient back to work as quickly as possible. Of course because this treatment will not have been proscribed by an NHS doctor then that will mean referral to a private sector healthcare company, such as, well, Maximus. To smooth the road, the government have decided to offer a tax break of up to £500 for employers who agree to pay for this treatment. This really is privatisation of front line health services by the back door.

Throughout all the guidance notes for Fit For Work it is emphasised that the employee’s consent must be sought at every stage of the process. If the employee refuses to provide that consent then all the government are prepared to say is that they will not then be referred to Fit For Work. Whether this refusal is used by employers to attempt to initiate disciplinery action is yet to be seen. Whether this is successful is likely to end up being a matter for employment tribunals and trade unions reps should be getting clued up on this new scheme now.

Reblogged this on Wirral In It Together and commented:
Are you off work with a genuine illness? Stand by to be registered with US $$Healthcare after 4 weeks, then driven out of your livelihood beneath a cloak of “Employer Support”…

With petrol now under £1 a litre, 48 inch TVs for £120, the ‘Big 4’ supermarkets giving away food for free as they attempt to wipe each other out, it seems, although afraid to say that the Tories/UKIP are a shoe-in for the next General Election. That odd-ball Millipede prattling on about ‘kitchen tables’ and his side-kick Burnham parroting on about ‘social care’ and a ‘crumbling NHS’ just doesn’t cut the mustard…

No way would I give my consent for anyone to have access to my medical records – what about data protection? What if sensitive information was left (as has happened before) on a train or somewhere else? I will be voting for the Green Party in May’s General Election. Labour and LibTory are finished in my book. I will keep spreading the word to everyone who does not have access to the internet about the issues raised on this site.

Thomas – I used to hear people saying that if they voted for SNP it would be a wasted vote – who would have imagined at that time, Scotland with it’s own Paraliament and SNP running it? The Labour Party make me laugh – in Scotland they call themselves the Scottish Labour Party – it is plain and simply the Labour Party. Another thing, if Ed Milliband could do the dirty on his own brother just think what he is capable of!!!! Would not give them the time of day.

I don’t like Milliband much, but the only small party that seems to be doing well is the really foul and vile UKIP. I’ll vote for a small party but only if it has a chance of success. And is not fascist like UKIP.

you can vote for the dickhead who runs the the labour party but it will just mean more of the same crap as we currently have, maximisus will still be doing its thing so you may as well shred your voting paper

Some of this (the potentially useful bits) is actually what in-house occupational health (OH) providers try to do, notably if they are in the public sector and staffed by OH doctors whose overriding responsibility is to the patient. Of course, once it is a private provider on a contract doing it all, the question of what is the main driver in the consultations and process is a bit more questionable.

In this connection, recall that the much-loathed Atos did not employ many OH doctors to do their assessments. This was partly because nurses with some OH training and a computer programme are a lot cheaper than doctors… and partly because the Faculty of OH re-stated in clear terms that an OH doctor, even one working for Atos, would be seeing a patient, and thus be bound by their professional code to make the patient’s welfare their first concern. Not, note, ‘filling assessment quotas’ or ‘reducing the no of people on disability’ or ‘helping company management’.

Anyway, not all of what the process describes is intrinsically bad. But doing it via a phone, in a hurry, on a target and in a for-profit sector… hmmm. There are, BTW, lots of NHS hospital OH departments that could do this kind of work properly, and which take on contract OH work for outside organisations. However, can’t see the present govt asking them. Wonder why not?

dr
nope, i can’t agree with you there…the PATIENT has already decided that they are NOT fit for work, and a gp has agreed with them…now if the patient ASKS OR SEEKS ADVICE that is a different situation entirely… the overriding responsibility for the patient is the patient….any thing else is ownership…the patient has already done the responsible/correct thing for themselves (ie ‘why do i feel so crap, oh’ i know i’ll see my gp,) and that is to seek medical help for their medical condition(s)…and tell me how many people are even fully diagnosed within 4 weeks?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26105246 still it’s ok the tuc approve!

I share OBD’s views in this. But stop & think about the initial stages – with one’s own GP, where they suggest using this service. First – the referral removes the cost of further treatment(s) from the GP purse. Next, it removes the possibility of repeat visits from the patient. More cost saved, by the GP.

From the worker’s view point, think – is the original diagnosis correct, and hence the outcome? Think upset tum vs Crohns…. only repeated consultations with the GP and a failure to recover is diagnostic. Ditto – the identification of more serious problems – depression, alcohol problems, abuse, that will only be teased out in time. This would not happen under the Maximus route.

these are just things that are off the top of my head. I’ve been there, and had much experience of the GP, NHS, OH and return to work programmes. This is a definite move to make the worker go back to work, not for them to recover effectively, and to break the continuity of care with the GP. Bad for anyone who dares to fall ill.

Finally, does anyone really believe that the same gang of Eton thugs who have given us sanctions, hunger, poverty, death, for daring to claim from the Insurance system we all pay into, that there is anything that is GOOD for us in this scheme? Really?

Written Ministerial Statement
Thursday 30 October 2014
THE DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS
Employment and Support Allowance

The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith MP): The previous Government appointed Atos the sole provider for carrying out Work Capability Assessments in 2008.

On 27 March, the former Minister for Disabled People announced that following negotiations with Atos, the Government had reached a mutual agreement for Atos to exit the contract to deliver health related assessments including Work Capability Assessments before it is due to end in August 2015.

Following a rigorous procurement exercise, I am pleased to announce today that MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd has been awarded the contract to deliver health related assessments including the Work Capability Assessments for DWP. The contract is to provide a national service for three years, with the option to extend twice by a further year. Operational service will commence on 1 March 2015.

The Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment Regulations will apply and most of the Atos employees currently employed on this contract will transfer to MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd; who will also use the existing Atos infrastructure and IT. The new provider will therefore be able to step into the contract without disrupting the service.

My absolute priority for MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd will be to
transition the service smoothly from the current provider and stabilise the operation to deliver the best service possible for claimants, increase the volume of assessments carried out and reduce waiting times without compromising quality.

MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd runs healthcare programmes in
Australia, Canada and the United States and is one of the largest occupational health providers in the UK. They employ large numbers of doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals and bring years of experience conducting independent health assessments. MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd is already a key Work Programme provider and was recently awarded a contract to run the Department’s new Fit for Work service.

MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd will bring both clinical expertise and a fresh approach that, over time, will significantly reduce waiting times and provide a better experience for claimants. A key focus of their plan is on recruiting and retaining the high quality healthcare professionals the service needs. MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd staff will spend more time engaging with and helping claimants earlier in the process, so that claimants know what to expect and can better prepare for the assessments. This should help reduce the number of people who currently do not attend assessments.

I am confident MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd will bring about the changes required to improve claimants’ experience of the assessment process.

We already have in place an agreement with Atos covering the remaining term of their contract. This agreement is more robust, with an agreed performance regime that
gives us confidence delivery goals will be achieved. My Department, Atos and MAXIMUS Health and Human Services Ltd will work together during the transition period to ensure a smooth handover.

Atos will continue to deliver health related assessments including Work Capability Assessments in Northern Ireland under a separate contract.

Reblogged this on Beastrabban’s Weblog and commented:
Another important piece by the good Mr Void on the stealth privatisation of the NHS. This describes in detail the government’s ‘Fit for Work’ scheme, in which workers, who are, or who are believed will be, sick for more than four weeks, will be referred instead to a private healthcare firm run by Maximus. The ‘Fit for Work’ scheme itself, and the referral process are also run by Maximus. So, as Private Eye would say, no conflict of interest there. Mr Void also points out that the staff referring and drawing up plans to get employees back to work will not be doctors, and will use some kind of biopsychosocial test. This looks like more of the NLP-style self-help quackery that the DWP seems to think can help people unblock their own psychological inability to get a job. It’s rubbish, voodoo science of the type usually skewered by people like Ben Goldacre. Unfortunately, it’s lucrative rubbish, and the government is determined to foist it on us.

Have had a look at the “Fit for Work Scotland” web-page – at the bottom under legal – Disclaimer. This info seems a bit contradictory to what they are stating on the web-page. Before I paste this statement – just say that you were sacked for being ill and had undergone a consultation with Maximus at the initial stage of your illness. When you go to claim for JSA or sickness benefit they would have all your information to hand and could place obstacles in your way before you even start to receive any payments – woe betide anyone who gives their consent to this process. Wonder if they are sitting there waiting on the phone to ring!!!!

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donna
what they are saying if you’re stupid enough to get caught up in our money making, cop out, and usury scheme it’s your look out…it’s all done to blame and suck dry the victim…in civilized culture abuse like this would be unimaginable…

while at the jobcentre this morning,there was a young girl in there crying her eyes out.not one member of staff came over to see if she was ok.myself and another lady went to the girl to see if we could help.she was crying because her advisor had talked down to her.he had threatened to stop her benefit if she didn’t do what he said.the only way to stop this is to stand up to these people.ask to see the manager go to your local mp.there isn’t any need for any jobcentre employer to talk to us like this.

There is of course no need for it, but it is now their normal way of talking to their ‘clients’, which they can do as all of the power is on their side. No respect, no compassion, no interest in their personal difficulties, no concern about what will happen to the sanctioned, and no ways providing any help about finding a job.

Those who get off on that sort of thing are now the more preferred as employees, and are encouraged to go their full length, and they’ll only get in trouble if they fall behind with their sanctioning quota; with ‘agitating the client’ being an intentional policy.

Because being unemployed is now to be treated as worse than being a criminal, with far longer sentences given for workiing in the community without pay; and so viewed as deserving only contempt. When it’s not the unemployed acting contempuously.

There are people working in jobcentres who are just to big for their boots. they just think because the green light has been given to go on the rampage,their above the law.this has gone to their heads.

we as a human species would have never survived to be a 1m + yrs old on this planet if this kind a crap had to be faced back then….these pricks have turned the real world of human beings and existence upside down…to get our vitality giving vitals of life we must 1st go through a 3rd party or middle person…and/or sell our labour to the highest bidder or work to beg for benefits..this system destroys the majority of human beings physical health and therefore mental health….all human beings are born knowing food and shelter for life awaits them…a rude shock is to awaken to the fact that nature has been comodified/profitised and now one has to be ‘good’ ( in the eyes of others judgments) or get fuck all…hat tip to mr r, as with such blinding clarity puts it ‘The lifestyle choice narrative is weighted with the assumption that there was a choice of lifestyle.’ to hold any other view is frankly insane….http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26105246 the tuc; ‘we are very supportive of the principles behind this’ …what they will ultimately try to convince people of, is that their minds and understanding of themselves is crap…don’t even think that they can offer anything that one has already not considered or indeed tried….

Well if Maximusfuckus are going to be doing this for the Pleds then i want all Government personal to have to go through the same hoops as everyone else and i do mean any members of Government and it’s staff! The house of lards as well. While i am at it the royals as well… Can you image that!

……….parasites that feed off the poorest, weakest and most vulnerable. Funded by the benefits stolen by the DWP from claimants, many of whom have died needlessly. Organised by government ministers and high ranking officials to remove the safety net of welfare, whilst transferring wealth to friends and associates within their social circles.

“TO ILLUSTRATE THE SUCCESS OF PROGRESSIVE WELFARE REFORMS, DRIVEN AT THE BEHEST OF THE AMERICAN PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY THAT NOW CONTROL THE DWP IN THE UK, PLEASE FIND THIS LIST OF THOSE WHO GAVE THEIR ULTIMATE SACRIFICE”……………………………..

……………………………………. their lives

Terry McGarvey, 48. Dangerously ill from polycytheamia, Terry asked for an ambulance to be called during his Work Capability Assessment. He knew that he wasn’t well enough to attend his WCA but feared that his benefits would be stopped if he did not. He died the following day.

Elaine Lowe, 53. Suffering from COPD and fearful of losing her benefits. In desperation, Elaine chose to commit suicide.

Mark Wood, 44. Found fit for work by Atos, against his Doctors advice and assertions that he had complex mental health problems. Starved to death after benefits stopped, weighing only 5st 8lb when he died.

Paul Reekie, 48, the Leith based Poet and Author. Suffered from severe depression. Committed suicide after DWP stopped his benefits due to an Atos ‘fit for work’ decision.

Leanne Chambers, 30. Suffered depression for many years which took a turn for the worst when she was called in for a WCA. Leanne committed suicide soon after.

Karen Sherlock, 44. Multiple health issues. Found fit for work by Atos and denied benefits. Fought a long battle to get placed into the support group of ESA. Karen died the following month of a heart attack.

Carl Payne, 42. Fears of losing his lifeline benefits due to welfare reform led this Father of two to take his own life.

Tim Salter, 53. Blind and suffering from Agoraphobia. Tim hanged himself after Atos found him fit for work and stopped his benefits.

Edward Jacques, 47 years old and suffering from HIV and Hepatitis C. Edward had a history of severe depression and self-harm. He took a fatal overdose after Atos found him fit for work and stopped his benefits.

Linda Wootton, 49 years old. A double heart and lung transplant patient. Died just nine days after the government found her fit for work, their refusal letter arriving as she lay desperately ill in her hospital bed.

Steven Cawthra, 55. His benefits stopped by the DWP and with rising debts, he saw suicide as the only way out of a desperate situation.

Elenore Tatton, 39 years old. Died just weeks after the government found her fit for work.

John Walker, 57, saddled with debt because of the bedroom tax, John took his own life.

Brian McArdle, 57 years old. Suffered a fatal heart attack the day after his disability benefits were stopped.

Stephen Hill, 53. Died of a heart attack one month after being found fit for work, even though he was waiting for major heart surgery.

Jacqueline Harris, 53. A former Nurse who could hardly walk was found fit for work by Atos and her benefits withdrawn. in desperation, she took her own life.

David Barr, 28. Suffering from severe mental difficulties. Threw himself from a bridge after being found fit for work by Atos and failing his appeal.

David Groves, 56. Died of a heart attack the night before taking his work capability assessment. His widow claimed that it was the stress that killed him.

Nicholas Peter Barker, 51. Shot himself after being told his benefits were being stopped. He was unable to work after a brain haemorrhage left him paralysed down one side.

Mark and Helen Mullins, 48 and 59 years old. Forced to live on £57.50 a week and make 12 mile trips each week to get free vegetables to make soup. Mark and Helen both committed suicide.

Richard Sanderson, 44. Unable to find a job and with his housing benefit cut forcing him to move, but with nowhere to go. Richard committed suicide.

Martin Rust, 36 years old. A schizophrenic man who killed himself two months after the government found him fit to work.

Craig Monk, 43. A vulnerable gentleman and a partial amputee who slipped so far into poverty that he hanged himself.

Colin Traynor, 29, and suffering from epilepsy was stripped of his benefits. He appealed. Five weeks after his death his family found he had won his appeal.

Elaine Christian, 57 years old. Worried about her work capability assessment, she was subsequently found at Holderness drain, drowned and with ten self inflicted wrist wounds.

Christelle and Kayjah Pardoe, 32 years and 5 month old. Pregnant, her benefits stopped, Christelle, clutching her baby son jumped from a third floor balcony.

Mark Scott, 46. His DLA and housing benefit stopped and sinking into deep depression, Mark died six weeks later.

Cecilia Burns, 51. Found fit for work while undergoing treatment for breast cancer. She died just a few weeks after she won her appeal against the Atos decision.

Chris Cann, 57 years old. Found dead in his home just months after being told he had to undergo a medical assessment to prove he could not work.

Peter Hodgson, 49. Called to JCP to see if he was suitable for volunteer work. Peter had suffered a stroke, a brain haemorrhage and had a fused leg. His appointment letter arrived a few days after he took his own life.

Stephanie Bottrill, 53. After paying £80 a month for bedroom tax, Stephanie could not afford heating in the winter, and lived on tinned custard. In desperation, she chose to walk in front of a lorry.

Larry Newman suffered from a degenerative lung condition, his weight dropping from 10 to 7 stone. Atos awarded him zero points, he died just three months after submitting his appeal.

Paul Turner, 52 years old. After suffering a heart attack, he was ordered to find a job in February. In April Paul died from ischaemic heart disease.

Christopher Charles Harkness, 39. After finding out that the funding for his care home was being withdrawn, this man who suffered with mental health issues, took his own life.

Sandra Louise Moon, 57. Suffering from a degenerative back condition, depression and increasingly worried about losing her incapacity benefit. Sandra committed suicide by taking an overdose.

Lee Robinson, 39 years old. Took his own life after his housing benefit and council tax were taken away from him.

David Coupe, 57. A Cancer sufferer found fit for work by Atos in 2012. David lost his sight, then his hearing, then his mobility, and then his life.

Michael McNicholas, 34. Severely depressed and a recovering alcoholic. Michael committed suicide after being called in for a Work Capability Assessment by Atos.

Victor Cuff, 59 and suffering from severe depression. Victor hanged himself after the DWP stopped his benefits.

Charles Barden, 74. Charles committed suicide by hanging due to fears that the Bedroom Tax would leave him destitute and unable to cope.

Ian Caress, 43. Suffered multiple health issues and deteriorating eyesight. Ian was found fit for work by Atos, he died ten months later having lost so much weight that his family said that he resembled a concentration camp victim.

Iain Hodge, 30. Suffered from the life threatening illness, Hughes Syndrome. Found fit for work by Atos and benefits stopped, Iain took his own life.

Wayne Grew, 37. Severely depressed due to government cuts and the fear of losing his job, Wayne committed suicide by hanging.

Kevin Bennett, 40. Kevin a sufferer of schizophrenia and mental illness became so depressed after his JSA was stopped that he became a virtual recluse. Kevin was found dead in his flat several months later.

David Elwyn Hughs Harries, 48. A disabled man who could no longer cope after his parents died, could find no help from the government via benefits. David took an overdose as a way out of his solitude.

Denis Jones, 58. A disabled man crushed by the pressures of government cuts, in particular the Bedroom Tax, and unable to survive by himself. Denis was found dead in his flat.

Shaun Pilkington, 58. Unable to cope any more, Shaun shot himself dead after receiving a letter from the DWP informing him that his ESA was being stopped.

Paul ?, 51. Died in a freezing cold flat after his ESA was stopped. Paul appealed the decision and won on the day that he lost his battle to live.

Chris MaGuire, 61. Deeply depressed and incapable of work, Chris was summonsed by Atos for a Work Capability Assessment and deemed fit for work. On appeal, a judge overturned the Atos decision and ordered them to leave him alone for at least a year, which they did not do. In desperation, Chris took his own life, unable to cope anymore.

Peter Duut, a Dutch national with terminal cancer living in the UK for many years found that he was not entitled to benefits unless he was active in the labour market. Peter died leaving his wife destitute, and unable to pay for his funeral.

George Scollen, age unknown. Took his own life after the government closed the Remploy factory he had worked in for 40 years.

Julian Little, 47. Wheelchair bound and suffering from kidney failure, Julian faced the harsh restrictions of the Bedroom Tax and the loss of his essential dialysis room. He died shortly after being ordered to downgrade.

Miss DE, Early 50’s. Suffering from mental illness, this lady committed suicide less than a month after an Atos assessor gave her zero points and declared her fit for work.

Robert Barlow, 47. Suffering from a brain tumour, a heart defect and awaiting a transplant, Robert was deemed fit for work by Atos and his benefits were withdrawn. He died penniless less than two years later.

Carl Joseph Foster-Brown, 58. As a direct consequence of the wholly unjustifiable actions of the Job centre and DWP, this man took his own life.

Martin Hadfield, 20 years old. Disillusioned with the lack of jobs available in this country but too proud to claim benefits. Utterly demoralised, Martin took his own life by hanging himself.

Annette Francis, 30. A mum-of-one suffering from severe mental illness, found dead after her disability benefits were ceased.

Ian Jordan, 60. His benefits slashed after Atos and the DWP declared Ian, a sufferer of Barratt’s Oesophagus, fit for work, caused him to run up massive debts in order to survive. Ian was found dead in his flat after taking an overdose.

Janet McCall, 53. Terminally ill with pulmonary fibrosis and declared ‘Fit for Work’ by Atos and the DWP, this lady died 5 months after her benefits were stopped.

Stuart Holley, 23. A man driven to suicide by the DWP’s incessant pressure and threat of sanctions for not being able to find a job.

Graham Shawcross, 63. A sufferer of the debilitating disease, Addison’s. Died of a heart attack due to the stress of an Atos ‘Fit for Work’ decision.

David Clapson, 59 years old. A diabetic ex-soldier deprived of the means to survive by the DWP and the governments harsh welfare reforms, David died all but penniless, starving and alone, his electricity run out.

Chris Smith, 59. Declared ‘Fit for Work’ by Atos as he lay dying of Cancer in his hospital bed.

Nathan Hartwell, 36, died of heart failure after an 18-month battle with the ­Department for Works and Pensions.

Michael Connolly, 60. A Father of One, increasingly worried about finances after his benefits were cut. Committed suicide by taking 13 times the fatal dose of prescription medicine on the 30th October – His Birthday.

Jan Mandeville, 52, A lady suffering from Fibromyalgia, driven to the point of mental and physical breakdown by this governments welfare reforms. Jan was found dead in her home after battling the DWP for ESA and DLA.

Trevor Drakard, 50 years old. A shy and reserved, severe epileptic who suffered regular and terrifying fits almost his entire life, hounded to suicide by the DWP who threatened to stop his life-line benefits.

Death of a severely disabled Dorset resident, unnamed, who took her own life while battling the bedroom tax.

……………………………………we did not want to die but the UK government decided that we were expendable, collateral damage to save money.

Just one death directly thru a Government policy is one too many. Years ago, MPs would’ve questioned any such policy that forced ppl to kill themselves.
That there has been hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of deaths due to Westminster’s evil policies is truly a scandal. (Many deaths go unrepotred – Many, many suicides not documented as being forced thru DWP).
It is shocking indeed, that MPs in the Palace of Westminster even praise these very policies. And where, oh where has the so called “Opposition” been to all of this? A half decent Labour party could have brought this lot down. Amongst the biggest culprits in keeping these evil satan worshiping NEW NAZIS in power has been the Cleggites.
Unfortunately, by the time the Lib Dems have been wiped out of existence, too many innocent ppl will have died before then. To think Nicholas Clegg is proud of himself !
IDS and McVey and Cameron are very well aware of all these needless deaths. It is obvious they do not care in the slightest.
There are as bad if not worse than Hilter and Stalin

The housing associations are totally tied up with private health care and snooping into peoples private lives.

Twice my housing association have given me appointments for me to have a survey to see what renovations need doing to the house, windows, doors bathrooms etc.

Twice they never arrived both last year and this, instead I received a survey both times probably one of the arsehole housing office staff sent to me regarding sevices at my GP which is just opposite the housing office.

It was them that helped get me locked up 3 times declaring me mentally ill because I refused to do new deal or work programmes working for nothing. They are all scum

I never fill them in as they are both a waste of my time and tax payers money and you cannot even get a proper repair done to the house you live in let alone any renovation work, yet they still charge bedroom tax for a bedroom that is too small to be classified as a bedroom.

I expect consent to this will turn out to be the same as the consent allowed to those on JSA. You can refuse consent to whatever you like, and they can then refuse to continue giving you an income, or with this, employment.

As Maximus is no different than having Atos, except maybe a bit worse, it’s simply a gesture of contempt and further condemnation for all of those who have suffered and have protested and are protesting against the methods of the WCA and its biopsychosocial twaddle.

Where the more they decide people should be able to think their way out of illness and disability, the more people are dying of the effects of that disbaility/illness denial; and as every person still dies hereafter whatever, that does seem to indicate that you can’t think your way out of it.

The tories answer to everything has been that it was Labour who introduced it, which is true, and for which they should properly apologise to the nation (some hopes); but now it can be responded that this government have not only contiued with it but made it even nastier, which they were in no way obliged to do.

So they have done this because it’s what they wanted to do, and anyone wanting to do this is a big piece of slimy Evilness, and they are the ones who are really not fit.

mind advocate the WP….their statement is half spoken, 2 places @ once, truth…
they also advocate mind control and management, and therefore the neoliberal agenda…see also boycott workfare…for cure see work of dr bob johnson also work of ‘mad in america’ author robert whitakerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgS79hz1saI

p s the victim’s of PD’s (aka mhp’s) DO NOT HAVE FAULTY MINDS…people are GIVEN PD’s….mind control and management profoundly weakens the VICTIM’S NATURAL abilities to deal with the historic abuse burdens for themselves, and keeps the victim in the shit, and vulnerable to further abuses, until the victim is so out of control they are diagnosed with PD’s, and may even be sectioned and @ some point via so called therapies all hope of recovery is lost…

The authoritarians are all tweeting to televise programs like ‘bring back borstal’.
If they are in favour of this, lets lock them up in their borstals not as warders but as mentally deficient sheep inmates who can’t see past the end of theirr noses.

There are two types of ANTI-AUTHORITARIANS, those that want to see common sense, real justice and kindness prevail and those that want to be top dogs themselves who are usually more authoritarian than the authorities – gangsters etc.

fawkes
i only see one type and in your post top dog aspires are authoritarians, as are all bullies…see the work of ‘the healing hands of kindness’ quaker dr bob johnson…..”Capitalism is the legitimate racket of the ruling class.” – Al Capone….

Having read Kitty Jones’ blog all I can say is that I was somewhat flabbergasted to see that she really believes that the Labour Party has consistently opposed the welfare reforms and austerity measures. I don’t know what kind of parallel universe that she and people like Mike Sivier are living in, but it surely isn’t that same one that I, and the majority of people here live in. It’s completely delusional that the Labour Party has done anything except aid and assist the ConDem government in the imposition of their policies, indeed, many of the polices followed by this present government were implemented initially by the previous Labour government. So it follows that it is equally delusional that the Labour Party will offer any kind of solution.

I would go as far to suggest that anyone reading Kitty Jones’ blog who subsequently remains a Labour supporter is a gullible fool.

I was banned from the Tom Pride site for calling him a puppeteer or at least having friends who act like his puppets, how petty can you get?
I could understand it if I had been banned for something worthwhile but namecalling – what a hypocrite!

I didn’t even do any name-calling, simply disagreed with her view by pointing out some inconvenient truths such as that Labour supports Benefit Sanctions! Some people are so blinkered they can’t accept the truth of the matter.

fawkes
‘I’m sure JV would agree with you too’….what rot we cannot discuss it here jv has already said so many times before, and you know that….so by posting something we cannot directly respond to, you are being disingenuous, as no one can reply directly too your post without being moderated..ie no free and frank discussion can be had on that particular topic….and i do also agree with him…

Get lost OBD, you are a right arsecrawler, landless peasant is complaining about a site that has banned him isn’t he? Tom Pride has commented on here before so nothing stopping him from contesting my assertions, it is only him that does not like anyone criticizing him on his site, so much for free speech.
You would make a good authoritarian OBD it’s in your blood.

Can you even see that far Guy Fawkes? It doesn’t seem like it, and though you often complain bitterly about others banning you for merely disagreeing with them, you seem to take equal umbrage when others have the audacity to call you out or disagree with you. Blog owners don’t need to ensure free speech, just as you don’t have to allow just anyone into your home. That doesn’t have to be justified by either, as it is personal space. However, you are perfectly free to set up your own blog to put across your own point of view.

You are just another petty poster who I have proved wrong countless times ion this site so I also take what you say with a pinch of salt.

I think I have proved many times how farsighted I am with regards to the direction politics is moving both here and in Europe, neither you nor OBD have, so I suggest you keep your own opinions to yourself.

Tom pride is rabbitting on now about how unfair it is to satirise one group and not another, try satirising the politically correct brigade on his site and watch him jump down your throat.

The fact that neither you nor OBD have objected to landless peasant’s grievance shows just how one sided and vengeful you are about being shown up for your own injustice and inadequacies.

PS Blogg owners don’t need to ensure free speech – then they are hypocrites and why should they be the only ones with free speech?

Saying doing what you like on your own website equivocal with doing what you like in your own home is a ridiculous analogy, as one is very much in the public sphere on the internet and removes comments that show them up to be prejudice or hypocritical, I had that too with your fellow welshman vox political.

I have never refused to reply to anyone nor run away from an argument, that is for snides and sneaks who use the powers that be to their own advantage when they are losing the argument.

Why don’t you stop trying to score points off people on this site.
You have just contradicted yourself by saying ‘what rot’ about Johnnie Void agreeing with you, then at the end you go on to say ‘and i do agree with him..’ on the same subject.

People cannot comment on the site they are banned from so they comment on here, what is your problem with that?

Do you ever ask yourself why certain conversations are moderated without any real justification, I hardly think calling someone a puppeteer is grounds for moderation nor a ban, goodness knows what society you want to live in that you want to uphold such unfairness.

Perhaps you should stop poking your nose into other peoples conversations, especially if you criticize only one poster for agreeing and empathizing with another poster who has the same grievances.

Perhaps you have a personal problem with Guy Fawkes, if that is the case you should say so instead of passing snide comments and asides about him to others.

social
i have not contradicted myself….if i have a problem with anyone i do say so @ the time, and i have said…fawkes already knows full well that the subject that fawkes refers to will be moderated…as it has been before and specifically stated by jv..so in the matter of fairness it is not right to bring up a subject that cannot be commented on here is it?
l p, referred to another site which is well known for moderating people for simply disagreeing with their wants…fawkes idea of an argument is to hurl insults @ people and pick fights with them….@ 2.59 yesterday i said very plainly…’fawkes
what you have just said cannot be contested on this site so please stop bringing it up here…’ it was a statement of fact that fawkes is well aware of…knowledge is power and only the truth will set you free…when jv posts he is giving us knowledge of the system, to the people…sure the state can counter act that info, but the more they do the more obvious it is that they are doing what they are doing to all others and why…and the more effort that the state will have to make in oppressing people, suppressing info the more obvious they are and this becomes…
…and as you will be aware lab/tory/ukip are deeply unpopular in many circles because of people seeing them for what they are especially in scotland…scotland being alight with passion for social justice atm and living proof that knowledge is power…

The whole concept of national insurance contributions was to offer a level of support to the worker, should they succumb to sickness or injury, furthermore it afforded a range of benefits to be paid if a disability, long or short term, should ensue.
It offered a guaranteed protection that most workers would opt to pay for.

Sadly, due to no fault of the workers, working trends changed dramatically as did the rise in low paid work.

This resulted in a shortfall of contributions that left the government with more than one option……………………….
The government in their ignorant wisdom decided that the easiest way to deal with this would be to go down the American route of Personal Health Insurance.
With this in mind, they had several covert meetings with the disgraced and heavily fined UNUM PROVIDENT of AMERICA.

UNUM have influenced the UK government at every turn, even bragging about their involvement in DWP work capability and welfare policy.

……………..here is an extract from hansard;

13. UnumProvident is actively engaged with the Government, policy-makers and large employers to share best practice and to see where our systems and approaches might be applied more widely. We are currently working with the Department of Work and Pensions on this, and have had discussions with officials in HM Treasury and the Prime Minister’s office. We have met with officials to help better understand the nature of the IB casebook, and to discuss how our commercial experience and expertise might be more widely applied. In addition, we will shortly be supporting the National Employment Panel in its work on the New Deal for Disabled People through a secondment of one of our senior managers.

14. UnumProvident is confident that its policies and approach to claim management and rehabilitation can be replicated more widely for those on IB. Whilst we are more than happy to share our commercial expertise and proven ideas, we would particularly welcome the opportunity to put them into practice.

…………………………….Unum got so cocky that they started bombarding our tv screens with offers of their private health insurance policies but the government did not like the link as it showed a conflict of interest between their new policies and the private, for profit, insurance industry. The tv advertising campaign was quickly halted.

It now depended on certain individuals like FREUD to sell us all down the river at any cost. Think tanks espousing “BIOPSYCHOSOCIAL DISABILITY CLAPTRAP” came thick and fast.

UNUM were involved in DWP policy at every shake of the dice;

“The Work Capability Assessment was developed in collaboration with a range of
medical and occupational health experts. Sue Godby, of the College of Occupational
Therapists and Unum Provident, was part of the Mental Health Technical Working
Group, along with eight other professionals. Dr Peter Dewis, a disability analyst and
Customer Care Director, Unum Provident, was part of the Physical Function Technical
Working Group, along with nine other professionals.”

UNUM donate 1.9 million pounds
Professor Sir Mansel Aylward, former Chief Medical Adviser of the DWP, Medical Director and Chief Scientist to the UK’s Department for Work and Pensions was appointed by Cardiff University as Director of the Centre. The Centre retained independence over this appointment.
At the same time, Unum and other insurance companies were called upon by Government as part of the welfare reform consultation.

This week the sixth International Forum on Disability Management,
IFDM 2012, takes place at Imperial College London. It is sponsored
by some of the world’s largest medical insurance companies, Unum
among them, and speakers include DWP chief medical adviser Dr Bill
Gunyeon and Professor Sir Mansel Aylward, formerly DWP chief
medical adviser and director of the Centre for Psychosocial and
Disability Research at Cardiff University, which was sponsored by
Unum from its inception in 2003 until 200

London 2012.
The 6th International Forum on Disability Management was chaired by two of the worlds leaders on the “good work is good for you” movement,Professors Dame Carol Black and Sir Mansel Aylward.The UK movement is going gang busters. Dr Bill Gunnyeon, Chief Medical Adviser and Director for Health and Wellbeing at the DWP,described how their surveys of GPs attitudes has shown a remarkable turnaround, with most GPs now agreeing work is beneficial for health, and around two thirds agreeing that GPs have a role in getting people back to work.

Wednesday 20th January 2010 5.00 for 5.30pm

The Government’s response to the Black review into the health of working age people was published in November 2008. This event aims to provide a brief update on the progress made over the past year with the programme of work outlined in that response. In addition we will have a presentation from Gordon Waddell and Mansel Aylward to mark the publication of a new edition of their book ‘Models of Sickness and Disability’. First published in 2002 this has been revised in the light of recent evidence.

TAEN CONFERENCE, Sponsored by UNUM, London 29th oct 2008.

Among the morning speakers were; Dr Bill GUNNYEON (DWP)……

Professor Michael ODONNELL, UNUM Chief Medical Officer…

Commenting on the development of the guidance, Dr Bill Gunnyeon, Chief Medical Adviser at DWP said:

“From the outset, the development of the fit note has been a collaborative effort. It demonstrates what can be achieved when Government, healthcare professionals, employers and other key stakeholders work closely together towards a common goal. We need to continue this good work once the fit note is in place to ensure it delivers the benefits it should for individuals, employers and GPs.”

The new guidance has been created by the Department for Work and Pensions with the Royal College of General Practitioners, British Medical Association, CBI, Acas, Federation of Small Businesses, Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, Association of British Insurers, British Retail Consortium and EEF, the manufacturers’ organisation. The fit note reflects medical evidence that work is generally good for health and well-being and can aid recovery for many health conditions.

………………….SO THE AMERICAN PRIVATE HEALTH INSURER, UNUM, HAVE NO LINKS TO UK WELFARE REFORMS

2012
Lord Freud, Government Spokesperson, Department for Work and Pensions said that the government, ‘had gone for the biopsychosocial model’ and that the social model was ‘intrusive and costly assessment, putting significant cost burdens on the state’.

The biopsychosocial model claims that a disease or disorder is explained through biological, psychological, and social factors. Interestingly, it is a model which has been adopted by Unum, who the government consulted on regarding Welfare Reform.

It’s Models of Illness and Disability, by Gordon Waddell and Mansell Aylward – both from the Centre for Psychosocial and Disability Research at Cardiff University. The Centre is funded by Unum Group, whose relationship with the DWP has long been – well let’s just say “interesting”. A good place to start in learning more about that is here.

Biopsychosocial? Never heard such an expression, is that even a real word? Sounds like an umbrella cover-all term that seeks to apportion blame to illness rather than merely accept that people get sick, and thereby (probably) an excuse for either intervention or punishment of some kind. Feeling ill? It’s your own fault for having a dodgy gene or an unhealthy habit and you must be changed.

l p
yep generic cover all, to deflect blame from the pirates….it is another word for we’re going to bully you…squeeze every last drop of energy from you and there is nothing one can do about it coz we’ll split/blind one in cause and affect categories, and we get to keep all of our illgotten gains…of DSM5…a freezing in the present (give them presents), one way valve, defence word….it’s a BORG word resistance is futile…a word used to talk @ people….a behaviourists word…you are sick and it’s all your fault cos you did this or the other wrong…we’re you ‘good’ @ christmas…base of which is; offend god and you will be punished…a modern ducking stool word….stocks or rack or thumbscrews… i kid you not, someone said to me that my t2d was god’s punishment…hat tip to mr r, as with such blinding clarity puts it ‘The lifestyle choice narrative is weighted with the assumption that there was a choice of lifestyle.’ to hold any other view is frankly insane….

At the moment I feel a little shaken by a bit of drama that’s just occurred, having just had to call an ambulance for the guy next door (an alcoholic and heroin user) who just had two fits one after the other and also has a DVT with one leg swollen twice the size of the other. Fuck me, life is never plain sailing.

Why don’t we get any credence or consideration for the ‘biopsychosocial’ effects we endure in daily life then? When does IDS ever have to help his neighbours out or put himself out to save someone’s life? They don’t have a fucking clue what shit people have to deal with in their everyday lives.

Some critics point out this question of distinction and a question of determination of the roles of illness and disease runs against the growing concept of the patient–medical tradesperson partnership or patient empowerment, as “biopsychosocial” becomes one more disingenuous euphemism for psychosomatic illness.[21] This may be exploited by medical insurance companies or government welfare departments eager to limit or deny access to medical and social care.[22]

Some psychiatrists see the BPS model as flawed, in either formulation or application. Epstein and colleagues describe six conflicting interpretations of what the model might be, and proposes that “…habits of mind may be the missing link between a biopsychosocial intent and clinical reality.”[23] Psychiatrist Hamid Tavakoli argues that the BPS model should be avoided because it unintentionally promotes an artificial distinction between biology and psychology, and merely causes confusion in psychiatric assessments and training programs, and that ultimately it has not helped the cause of trying to destigmatize mental health.[24]

Biopsychosocial sounds like a soap powder, but what they are trying to con is with is that some illnesses of the psych are in the biological and some caused through social factors. They forgot to mention some are made up by the powers that be to keep themselves in a job or to tarnish people who have got their ,so that nobody take what they have to say seriously, imaginarypsychosocialbabble they should call it!

You really do need to know about the bio-psychosocial model of disability, in order to understand how disabled people in Britain have been conned since from when Peter Lilley was the minister responsible for letting Unum in as advisors, and for which every minister responsible has been complicit ever since.

We don’t need to read lengthy theses on crap to know what these conmen look like, whether they are in the medical or political professions.
In fact to call these people professionals is an insult to those blessed with insight, common sense and integrity.

Clinton, NY: Mary will be following an Unum, or Unum Provident denied disability lawsuit recently filed. Unum had “threatened” to terminate her benefits for several months and she too might have her day in court with the behemoth insurance company.

New York man – who worked for an insurance company – filed a lawsuit against Unum last October, claiming he was wrongfully terminated from his short-term disability benefits and then denied long-term disability benefits. Steven Krol was diagnosed with a cognitive impairment that included vascular dementia, a condition that left him disabled. But Unum didn’t see it that way. Krol first applied for short-term benefits and Unum made payments from Oct. 26, 2012 through Sept. 20, 2013.

Did Unum believe that Krol would miraculously recover from vascular dementia? It just takes a quick search online to discover that this condition is not reversible. According to WebMD, “No available treatments can repair the damage of vascular dementia once it’s happened.”

Still waiting for a cure for the common cold – Wait News Flash Maximus aka Atos UNUM have now found the cure over the common cold. It`s easy it`s mind over matter & if you convince yourself you will be working for UNUM without knowing it or getting paid UNUM is get it £££. No tax then !!!! Perphaps UNUM can tell the rest of the world how you cure a common cold. It`s easy to cure confidence tricksters.

Metaphysical Teachings is a form of Kung Fu – You lazy people will believe mind over matter which means Ego Tripping now lazy people the strain on your heart will give you a heart attack. The Biopsychosocial Model.is not fir for purpose in any form because it is false fake bogus in every way. The only thing it is not bogus fake or false is Profit ££££ !!!! No Regulation in Healthcare Confidence Tricksters Professionals. The Biopsychosocial Model means no one has a disability [the word will be banned soon & be Disability PLC] & no one has any Mental Health. What stupidity to think that !!!

There have been books written since the 60’s on how to represent yourself in court, providing you are willing to be bogged down in paperwork to prove your case and attain justice, but your evidence has to be watertight.

If you do highlight loopholes in the state of private sector legislature, these will then be closed or laws changed to prevent others getting justice.

The academics in society want you tied up in their world of repetitive, irrelevant casework, jargon and crap they have created as a barrier between them and us – the Joe Bloggs of this world, don’t play into their convoluted way of thinking, legislation could be simplified on a whim if it were not out to confound, corrupt or control as well as keep it confined to a superior hierarchy with it’s terminology, trickery and thuggery.

One of the best ruses that the DWP use to steal your bonafide benefits is claim that your existing benefits cannot be used as evidence in recently introduced benefits…………

I have several letters from different departments of the DWP that state emphatically that because the latest benefit is new, your existing disability details have no bearing whatsoever…………………

This is utter down and out bullshit from the department that is licenced to kill.
Any pre existing disability history can and must be used in whatever form you wish to submit it.

The DWP don’t like to accept that precedents have been set and awards granted, some for lifetime.

………………………..Freedom of information requests on this very subject have been lodged with both the DWP and Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal Service;
Case law has been used but both departments are trying to evade giving a response…………………..
……………………………………………………………………………………………………..
From: MR A Nichols

6 November 2014

Dear Her Majesty’s Courts and the Tribunals Service,

There is a legal requirement for DWP Decision Makers to take into
account the
relevance of a DLA award when deciding on the claimant’s ESA award:

“Case law (JW v SSWP (ESA) [2012] UKUT 256 (AAC)CE/2894/2011)
obliges Decision Makers to take into account the relevance of a
claimant’s existing DLA award when considering a Work Capability
Assessment — there may be sufficient “common ground” for one to
provide material evidence in respect of the other.”

However, as DLA has now been replaced by PIP can you confirm that
the case law that applied to DLA should also encompass PIP as DLA’s
replacement?

Yours faithfully,

MR A Nichols
…………………………………………………………………………………………………….

In other words, they both are pissing in the same pot, and tribunals and courts work to the same songsheet.

“FAIR, INDEPENDENT AND IMPARTIAL”, WHAT A COMPLETE CROCK OF SHIT………………………

ANYTHING BEARING THE ROYAL COAT OF ARMS IS ANYTHING BUT, CONSPIRING TO CHEAT YOU AT EVERY LEVEL.

“HUMAN RIGHTS TO A FAIR HEARING, WITH LEGAL AID, WENT OUT OF THE WINDOW WITH THESE SCUMSUCKERS”

Thousands of sick and disabled people have requested an audio-recording of medical assessments for sickness benefit, Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), official figures show.

However, DWP figures also show that of the 4,060 requests to audio-record a WCA, only 2,670 were successfully completed – averaging between 150 to 200 a month.

On average, approximately 70 were cancelled each month, totalling 1,080 between December 2012 and February 2014. The DWP says 330 individuals were awaiting an audio-recorded WCA in February 2014.

For every 10,000 WCAs completed, the DWP received only 66 requests for audio recordings (0.66%).

The ratio of recordings requested to all assessments completed was highest in January 2014 (1.14%) and lowest in January 2013 (0.36%).

The ratio of completed audio recording to all assessments completed was on average 0.42% and the ratio of cleared (completed + cancelled) audio recordings to all assessments was on average 0.59%.
Source: Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).Source: Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

There is no legal right to record a face to face benefit assessment, says the DWP. And the department has no legal obligation to provide recording equipment.

According to the DWP, the current policy for audio recording of face-to-face assessments is that DWP has asked Atos Healthcare, and its successor Maximus, to accommodate requests as much as reasonably possible.

The DWP said they are releasing these statistics “as a contribution to the debate on audio-recording face-to-face WCAs”

……………………………”REMEMBER, EACH AND EVERY RECORDING CAN BE USED AGAINST THE DWP IN DISABILITY DENIAL LITIGATION”..

Pleas to the government to suspend its benefit sanctions regime pending a fundamental review of its impact – especially on the mentally ill and disabled – were made at the first session of a broad inquiry by the department of work and pensions select committee.

In a two-and-half hour session involving academics, food banks administrators, disabled groups and employment service professionals, the select committee repeatedly heard the sanctions regime had changed over the last two years, creating a punitive culture of fear – especially amongst the disabled.

BBC2 tonight 9pm ‘The super rich and us’, yet another programme telling us what we already know, that the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer and the middleclass supposedly stagnating, the ones that are not using pension pots to buy second homes to rent and exploit the poor that is.

We don’t need more literature, theses or programs telling us what we already know, we need to see some ACTION to reverse it, which will only bring us back level with what the rich stole from us in the first place if we are lucky.

So get off your backside and do something – instead of continually griping. We do need this knowledge, information is key. You and I may be aware of all this information, but I doubt that either of us could present it in such a succinct and informative manner. It’s also important that people who have swallowed the Daily Mail/Tory/UKIP rhetoric have something to trouble their comfortable delusions.

Knowledge is power, but you seem to want people to remain in not so blissful ignorance. Imperfect as it may be, this programme is timely given that we are soon to have a general election where this issue is largely the main consideration.

I don’t intend replying to you again, as it would be a complete waste of my time, as I doubt that you have the ability to see beyond your own blinkered perspective. I also disagree with you, which is a further reason as to why I will be subject to your disregard.

Everything you say about me is based on assumptions – POWER IS POWER not knowledge.

Knowledge has been made power by those that believe their own psychobabble theories, a pseudo science not worthy of acredation, they want to draw people into their knowlege and make them think that if they swallow their crap they too can seem intelligent and powerful, egotists like you fall for it all of the time.

They will be bringing out a new field of sciences for you to study and charge you for learning, yet no matter what you learn, how good a convincing argument you throw back at them, THEY ARE IN THE SEAT OF POWER and you are just the sap that they have got on the run replying to them, which they dismiss with impunity or say they have lost your proof, argument, documents etc.

Knowledge is power. When the DWP know that, it makes it very hard work for them. Easier to go to someone else as a faster processed cash cow !!!
Everybody knows the Human Rights & Equality laws are being broken non stop.

fawkes
you’re implying only some should have knowledge and should be led by those with it…nothing has been able to bring neoliberalism to a full stop for centuries..the magna carta was hijacked, as was the labour party and unions….but without constant protests we wouldn’t have a fraction of the power we have today, and also kept alive the dream of ‘freedom come all ye’….this struggle is generations old, don’t you even know that?
what you have said begs to question why do you post here?
over throwing a system leaves a power vacuum that even cromwell failed to see….look what has happened in iraq! or anywhere….viable social structures have to be put in place (anti-dotes) to what we endure now… see the work of the common weal…and the indyscot ref movement campaign all based on replacing the current system….well over 50% of scots now want indy! we haven’t laid down coz we lost but stood tall and have carried on with our struggle to achieve social justice…i am delighted to say scottish youngsters now run rings round me with their political knowledge….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyJmDcQf-qU

‘you’re implying only some should have knowledge and should be led by those with it…’ ?????? How did you come to this conclusion?

You change the subject into something you think you have got an answer to which is Indy this and indy that, which is a form of Scottish nationalism and pride. You of all people should know that pride comes before a fall!

Your fantasy seems to revolve around how you want the world to be, not actually how it is, good luck with independence, if you are a product of
what Scotland is offering such as a fascist Europe, a basic income for the rich, everybody a rentee of a house instead of free ownership of your own house, not to mention a backstabbing nature, then I want no part of it
anyway.

Why should I not be on this site, is it ruled by only the Scots, I was actually on this site before you, so go and get your own website to promote Scotland.

Your friend Sib, Mr Wales has the same mentality.

The best education cannot be found in textbooks, a piece of wisdom you would do well to remember and the most honest down to earth people are not found in the so called educated middle class either.

fawkes’
I was banned from the Tom Pride site for calling him a puppeteer or at least having friends who act like his puppets, how petty can you get?
I could understand it if I had been banned for something worthwhile but namecalling – what a hypocrite!’ you posted that to get a reaction knowing full well that no one could respond to you…l p’s post was entirely different in circumstances to the reasons you were banned from tom prides site…yet you tried to lump it in with his post as if you were a victim of injustice too…..you try to sap peoples energy and when they get so exhausted by responding to you, then you call this a victory…like i say you call an argument hurling insults @ people and picking fights…you have already wasted enough of my time and energy over this but you try to drag it on…..if anyone wants to know why fawkes was banned from tom prides site go to his site and ask him!….bare in mind that fawkes is the 1st person that tom pride has ever banned….

Tom pride actually wrote to my e mail address telling me I could post back on his site if I stopped calling him a puppeteer.
I told him I would rather not and declined his offer. I have the emails to prove this.

Any other reason obd has in his tiny brain is entirely a figment of his own imagination.
You are a weak lazy man who provides no proof only assertions of this that and the other.

I hope people do go on Tom Prides site and ask him, also ask him how many times petty OBD has argued on there and then left or refused to speak when he was out witted or proved wrong.

You OBD want no opposition, no criticism, no arguments just your own idiotic pipe dreams.

Good luck, there are seats reserved for you and Sib(which is welsh for sergeant major) at my cinema.

‘I was banned from the Tom Pride site for calling him a puppeteer or at least having friends who act like his puppets, how petty can you get?
I could understand it if I had been banned for something worthwhile but namecalling – what a hypocrite!’Tom pride actually wrote to my e mail address telling me I could post back on his site if I stopped calling him a puppeteer.
I told him I would rather not and declined his offer. I have the emails to prove this.
you accused tom of sock puppeting among many other things…not however of him being a puppeteer and having friends like puppets…

OBD – I think there is only one person who is sick of you. I avidly read your comments, and sometimes respond to them as you know. I’m sure we don’t always agree, but we agree to differ, and don’t fall out or resort to personal abuse either.

Both you and I have regularly suggested positive avenues in which to direct the frustrations we all feel, and disseminate ideas that others reading these comments may wish to know about. Neither of us claims to have all the answers, but your championing of Scottish independence should, I think, be an inspiration for us all. To dismiss this campaing as mere narrow nationalism is to miss the point entirely especially as the kind of ‘nationalism’ being promoted is a civic one, in which all, regardless of background, creed or colour can pariticipate.

To even suggest that nationalism in any form is the basis for support for independence in Scotland is to largely miss the point. It will be one aspect, it is certain, but I believe that most of the impetus for an independent Scotland comes from people who have a real desire to build a fair and equitable society, to free themselves from a political system that we know has greatly failed the many. If the Labour Party had any principles whatsoever, (it doesn’t, and has never posessed principles) like the once very influential Independent Labour Party did, then they would most certainly support independence in the way that both the SNP and Plaid Cymru understand it.

Most detractors of nationalism clearly have no real concept of what nationalism actually is, and that more correctly there are nationalismsm and only a rogue minority express themselves as full blown fascism or nazism – and actually to view either fascism or nazism as nationalist is disingeuous, as they are both correctly forms of imperialism, which is inconvenient for the Labour Party as it is itself a nationalist party if that ilk (imperialist, not fascist or nazi): The Labour Party’s criticism of the nationalistic tendencies of the SNP and Palid Cymru is akin to the biblical notion of drawing attention to the speck of sawdust in someone’s eye whilst ignoring the plank in their own.

As an anarchist I don’t support either the SNP or Plaid Cymru, but as a gradualist I do see the need for both Wales and Scotland to free themselves from a regime that threatens to impose neo-feudalism on us all.

Don’t go OBD, you are wanted here. I understand that feelings run high here, and that most of us are facing a pretty uncertain future, but we must not lose hope. JV’s blog just wouldn’t be the same without you. We can try and ignore the idiots, (and would be wise to do so, as we know). I usually try to do just that, but sometimes I find it impossible to ignore their crass stupidity, and feel the need to challenge their assertions. But in all this we must remember the quote:

‘Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience’

Stop making yourself look the idiot Sib with your middle class mores, two faced demeanour and as much of a nasty streak as the friend you supported against me.

The other site in question had a poster who usually called everyone idiots, whether he was the puppetmaster or his friend remains to be seen, but he got away with murder and caused all of the arguments, I just replied to them, usually jokingly, but you can’t joke with people like you two who possess no sense of humour at all.

Like you say there are those that can see the speck in everyone elses eye but not the plank in their own – you two were the first to wrongly point out my failings. Do what you told me to do Sib and start your own site, i’m too busy to run one!

sib
i can easily ignore her now….she wants the status quo to prevail and is not interested in change @ all, it’s all a game to her…what disgusted me is that she compared landless peasants experience with hers as if she said something once and was banned…she goaded tom and others for months…constantly trying to get me to gang up on another individual there…she said things on that site that she would not dare say here and come back to this site as if she was the victim….she drove beautiful gwen off….blaming gwen coz she had mental health difficulties not even bothering to accommodate communication with the other…look @ the things she has said about me just now…she’s a gossiper, who throws tantrums if she doesn’t get her own way…an energy drag/drain/consumer of the time of others….
see 17 9 14 posts and 10 10 14 (166 comments) posts et al and way before…,'[Guy – I’ve warned you before about accusing commenters on this site of being my sock puppets. Carry on with this nonsense and you will be the first person I have banned from this site. Now please stick to discussing politics – criticise me by all means but leave other commenters out of your paranoid delusions and obsessions with me.] – TOM,
it breaks my heart to think that she carries influence over others here…
mark twain…but it’s certainly good to know someones true colours…

It occurs to me that the DWP’s rollout of ‘treatment’ programmes for depression and mental health issues is on the basis that the DWP knows there soon WON’T BE any NHS to treat those who can’t pay.

In fact the Work Capability Assessments of the disabled by Atos and Maximus have probably been part of a pilot anticipating the planned removal of the NHS and explains why bargain basement ‘second opinions’ were being sought to override the diagnoses of the NHS doctors currently treating the victims of this process – those doctors also will have gone if the Tories get back in.

The daily mail takes comments out of context like obd has, so typical of him and the mentally ill girl verbally attacked me. Get your stories straight.
As for me trying to get him involved with my arguments, I backed him up and he ran away and left me to face fink

no I’m not, you of all people should know that comments with a certain person’s name in go into a moderation queue. having said that wind your fucking neck in, its boring and this is not the place for endless personal attacks on other posters.

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