We won't be changing the ESOC Patch for some time now (at least after the winter tourney) so for now we will just use this one thread for everything regarding the ESOC Patch. Don't go off-topic please.

Offshore support should be nerfed. It's a big flaw to not change this card. I understand that you don't want to change water right now, but I think we can all agree that Offshore support is a broken card.

edeholland wrote:We won''t be changing the ESOC Patch for some time now (at least after the winter tourney) so for now we will just use this one thread for everything regarding the ESOC Patch. Don''t go off-topic please.

jerom wrote:I would really really like to see plantations cost 600w. Running out of mines is too big of a deal right now. And if you do, rice paddies are super broken.

if plantantions got cheaper, mills will need to be cheaper because plantantions are supposed to be 2x more expensive.if you leave mills at 400 wood and plantantions at 600, we are not talking anymore for a fanpatch ,but a mod because you are changing the gameplay.

krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish

jerom wrote:I would really really like to see plantations cost 600w. Running out of mines is too big of a deal right now. And if you do, rice paddies are super broken.

if plantantions got cheaper, mills will need to be cheaper because plantantions are supposed to be 2x more expensive.if you leave mills at 400 wood and plantantions at 600, we are not talking anymore for a fanpatch ,but a mod because you are changing the gameplay.

You could argue then that iro is supposed to be stronger because thats the way its designed. Yes I am talking about changing the gameplay because I think plantations being so expensive has a negative influence on the gameplay.

I think otto's silk road should be nerfed as I said in the other thread. 25% might be decent, but having it in discovery is way too op.Also 80f for vils might be too cheap but I guess the FP team balanced that so we will see

I think what is even more insane is the amount of upgrades and their costs for plantations, mills, paddies.it's just not proportional compare to any eco you can have at around 20mn.Even in treaty, sometimes you don't have the resources to upgrade them and must wait, lol

jerom wrote:I would really really like to see plantations cost 600w. Running out of mines is too big of a deal right now. And if you do, rice paddies are super broken.

if plantantions got cheaper, mills will need to be cheaper because plantantions are supposed to be 2x more expensive.if you leave mills at 400 wood and plantantions at 600, we are not talking anymore for a fanpatch ,but ?a mod because you are changing the gameplay.

I dont see why plantations couldnt cost 400w just like they do for asian civs...... Where are you getting that plantations are supposed to be 2x as expensive?

the developers probably pictured every plantation as Oak Alley and costing a lot to build, which is surely a mistake. 600w seems much more reasonable than 800. I don't see how plantation are supposed to be 2x more expensive than mills. you go nowhere with this reasoning

"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham

That makes sense that you cant one shot an explorer or a villager. shouldn't euro civs have a chance to counter the massive power spike of a shogun? I haven't tested every unit, but I imagine you can one shot mams bombards etc...Maybe im wrong, but I think its an issue. When I play Dutch vs japs this causes me to lose a lot. I mean shouldn't Dutch be able to hang with japs in age 4? that's when both nations peak ...right? I hate playing this matchup and always thinking I have to win in age 2. I'm not an expert by any means so any feedback is welcome.

The Sioux changes need some work. They are meant to be a cav civ which reflects the history of the Sioux. The roles of Infantry and Cav are reversed with infantry being the support units. So the cav hit and run then retreat to a position where there are teepees and infantry. As the aura on teepees need to be small the speed bonus to cetans doesn't really make much of a difference because you aren't going to kite if you've built teepees. The reason why we don't see foward warhuts with teepees, cetans and raiding bowriders in colonial is because the Sioux economy is too weak to get all of that out. All you've done is reintroduced the possibility of cetan laming back into the meta. Also, rifle riders are not the age 3 projection of bow riders. They do different stuff and you should still want to make bow riders in age3.

I think all mill / plantation types should be 400w. It is ridiculous not to. I don't think the game design is meant to be plantations are 2x cost of mills. I am sure the original game design intended for more age 2 play with wood based units meaning that mines would last longer. Obviously things change.

Would also like to see more new maps to keep the pool fresh for every tournament season. New maps to shift balance and meta will be a huge part of keeping the game fresh and retaining players and viewers.

mmcnoel wrote:I think all mill / plantation types should be 400w. It is ridiculous not to. I don''t think the game design is meant to be plantations are 2x cost of mills. I am sure the original game design intended for more age 2 play with wood based units meaning that mines would last longer. Obviously things change.

Would also like to see more new maps to keep the pool fresh for every tournament season. New maps to shift balance and meta will be a huge part of keeping the game fresh and retaining players and viewers.

agree with both parts of your post. Rotating map pool would be nice. How easy is map making? If its doable for someone with not too much coding experience Id maybe want to give it a try aswell.

Logically rice paddies should cost way more than mills and plantations (>1200w) because you can alternate food and coin production. I mil(l)itate in favour of a new change that would decrease the plantation's cost. 400w for plantations seems a reasonable option (I agree with n0eL on that) and 800w for the rice paddy because of the reason I stated above. It's not like TAD civs couldn't afford that.

Also I'd like the fp team to fix schooners. 40w is insanely ridiculous !