All good responses above. Would opinions about Andorians change if one or more changes occured, say if 1) Information was given to new managers about trends in regional arenas, or 2) Some arenas actually were set up with slightly modified rules (though what those would be could be hotly contested) ???

Ghoti wrote:

I also want to clarify that I do not personally call myself a true andorian...

Perhaps what people perceive as 'True Andorian' has an impact on how much all Andorians are bagged on. What does it mean to be a 'True Andorian', and do managers get bagged on who claim to be Andorian but don't seem to meet that definition?

Ghoti wrote:

Adie, Sorry if I seem to be steering this in a different direction. It just seemed like the place to do it.

You can respond however you wish, I'm just trying to get an idea of the depth of differences in people's impressions of Andorians. The pure complexity and differences in opinion seem to make the concept of an 'Andorian' so divisive. Since all Andorians are different, and opinions are all different, they seem to get bagged on for different reasons. I'm not trying to solve any issues here, just hear what people have to say.

_________________Steve (Adie/Tankesh)
respect: noun. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
transitive verb. To avoid violation of or interference with.

SmugUnchartered Poster

Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Louisiana

Posted:
Wed Oct 15, 2003 10:10 am

Each person has the right to play the game how he/she feels it should be played. If you choose to play in the "Andorian" style, then great. Same with Delarq and Free Blade. I just dont hold with the idea that a certain few arenas should be run differently. If you choose to run low KD and not DC, that is a choice that only you can make. But to insist that an entire arena will be run that way is......well........petty. If I were a new manager and RSI put me into an Andorian arena, I would likely be that putz that you just mentioned. Why? Well, as I stated before, I'm gonna play the game whatever way I feel is right for me. Whether anyone likes it or not. Besides, if RSI was to designate certain arenas to run certain ways, it'd just be a matter of time before they were flooded with requests to have other arenas run in specific ways, thus changing the entire game. And who would regulate these arenas? It seems like so much trouble to have these arenas when it'd be far easier to just.......play the game. However you like.

_________________Great Nations are built from the bones of the dead with mud and straw, blood and sweat.
You know your worth when your enemies praise you Architecture of Aggression.

SylvesterMaster Poster

Joined: Apr 13, 2003
Posts: 209

Posted:
Wed Oct 15, 2003 1:37 pm

had a moment of clarity and realized that the main reason Andorians get nagged on so bad is because Soultaker is one...

had a moment of clarity and realized that the main reason Andorians get nagged on so bad is because Soultaker is one...

Thanks for bringing me in on this. It is true I am Andorian but I am sure a number of other Andorians would say I am not the ideal vision of Andorian values.

I do have a question for you though. Why is that you fight so hard to be seen as a 'Larq, but you and your fellow alliance mates all run to 103. I would think that you would run in 104.

_________________Soultaker

gameogreGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 775
Location: San Diego

Posted:
Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:51 pm

I have no concept of how much extra bother this would be for RSI, so it is by way of a philosophical answer to Adie's questions above.

What Andorian's would need to be true to their precepts and acheive their safer arena would be one arena set aside with a "dueling council" of say five members. Replacement of a departing member would require unanimous vote of the remaining four. RSI would have to allow them to vote a team off the island... I mean arena, and let it be sent to any arena the manager didn't already have a team. Then anyone mistakenly entering the arena could happily go their own way with the team intact. By way of role-playing design, the Andorian crowd would be assumed to refuse to pay to see a purposeful killer fight and such teams would be forced to fight elsewhere to earn their living.

In reality, you're stuck with two problems. Would it ever be worth the extra bother for RSI and would it be too advantageous and cause a backlash from other players?

I might still rag on Andorians for not facing up to the same challenges getting their darlings through basic as the rest of us, but that's by way of good humored opponents jibing. The awful treatment of accidental arrivals who just want to play "their way" would no longer be necessary.

RillionArchMaster Poster

Joined: Jul 17, 2002
Posts: 1054

Posted:
Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:15 pm

When saying that Andorians are making up or imposing their own rules, I think something that people are forgetting (because not many of you played back then) is that originally you were not allowed to downchallenge. Before the various classes were added to the game, all warriors were ranked in one big list and you could only challenge up (except for the DM who could challenge down into the top 10 and for bloodfueds).

When the classes were added the rules were changed to allow down challenging (with certain limits). Some people felt downchallenging shouldn't have been allowed while others felt it was fine.

Several years later the "regions" were introduced for roleplaying purposes with the Andorian League and the Delarquian Federation having bad relations with each other. The Andorians from the start were always portrayed as a more cooperative region where people worked for the betterment of all, while the Delarqs were portrayed as more individualistic and every man for himself. Free Blades were the catch all for everyone else.

SylvesterMaster Poster

Joined: Apr 13, 2003
Posts: 209

Posted:
Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:13 pm

Soultaker wrote:

had a moment of clarity and realized that the main reason Andorians get nagged on so bad is because Soultaker is one...

Thanks for bringing me in on this. It is true I am Andorian but I am sure a number of other Andorians would say I am not the ideal vision of Andorian values.

I do have a question for you though. Why is that you fight so hard to be seen as a 'Larq, but you and your fellow alliance mates all run to 103. I would think that you would run in 104.

A few years ago, DOOMcorps decided to move all our ADM warriors to 103 and now in the Frothingslosh Syndicate most everyone has their warriors there, I'm not sure why. But for me I just like fighting there mostly because Sandman and Rillion are cool to play with. However I didn't realize I fought hard to be seen as anything. I play the way I play and am consistent in doing so.

gameogreGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 775
Location: San Diego

Posted:
Thu Oct 16, 2003 11:27 pm

Rillion wrote:

When saying that Andorians are making up or imposing their own rules, I think something that people are forgetting (because not many of you played back then) is that originally you were not allowed to downchallenge. Before the various classes were added to the game, all warriors were ranked in one big list and you could only challenge up (except for the DM who could challenge down into the top 10 and for bloodfueds).

When the classes were added the rules were changed to allow down challenging (with certain limits). Some people felt downchallenging shouldn't have been allowed while others felt it was fine.

Several years later the "regions" were introduced for roleplaying purposes with the Andorian League and the Delarquian Federation having bad relations with each other. The Andorians from the start were always portrayed as a more cooperative region where people worked for the betterment of all, while the Delarqs were portrayed as more individualistic and every man for himself. Free Blades were the catch all for everyone else.

Interesting! I knew that the rankings were added later but not that there was no down-challenging in the beginning. So the questions naturally occur; Why was it added? What's changed from those reasons? Does this actually change anything in the comment that Andorian rules are extra things applied on top of the games rules now?

I still think Andorians can play as they see fit, but for the reasons already mentioned too many times, under the present game set-up it will result in disparagement from many. (Which was the question asked)

AdieArchMaster Poster

Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1274
Location: Orange County, CA

Posted:
Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:34 am

gameogre wrote:

Rillion wrote:

When saying that Andorians are making up or imposing their own rules, I think something that people are forgetting (because not many of you played back then) is that originally you were not allowed to downchallenge. Before the various classes were added to the game, all warriors were ranked in one big list and you could only challenge up (except for the DM who could challenge down into the top 10 and for bloodfueds).

When the classes were added the rules were changed to allow down challenging (with certain limits). Some people felt downchallenging shouldn't have been allowed while others felt it was fine.

Several years later the "regions" were introduced for roleplaying purposes with the Andorian League and the Delarquian Federation having bad relations with each other. The Andorians from the start were always portrayed as a more cooperative region where people worked for the betterment of all, while the Delarqs were portrayed as more individualistic and every man for himself. Free Blades were the catch all for everyone else.

Interesting! I knew that the rankings were added later but not that there was no down-challenging in the beginning. So the questions naturally occur; Why was it added? What's changed from those reasons? Does this actually change anything in the comment that Andorian rules are extra things applied on top of the games rules now?

That IS interesting. Maybe you could think of Andorians as a morphed form of the philosophical decendents of those who didn't like the new downchallenging rules.

I had another thought. Maybe many Andorians find it a challenge to be Andorian and be bagged on and play differently in a set of rules not designed for their tendencies, because they like the thrill of fighting back and defending their ideals. I certainly don't mind, though I do tire of it sometimes and need some breaks!

_________________Steve (Adie/Tankesh)
respect: noun. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
transitive verb. To avoid violation of or interference with.

ManagerrArchMaster Poster

Joined: Jul 12, 2002
Posts: 4136
Location: Omaha

Posted:
Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:41 am

Quote:

I might still rag on Andorians for not facing up to the same challenges getting their darlings through basic as the rest of us, but that's by way of good humored opponents jibing. The awful treatment of accidental arrivals who just want to play "their way" would no longer be necessary.

At least for new players, not an issue anymore, they get sent to 93 so that they can research and find out what arena they really want.

Issue is tricker with returning players, especially those who played like 15+ years ago. However, the number of players who played that long ago and would get stuck in an arena that hapened to turn Andorian would be pretty slim. Most of the old old school arenas ended up becoming Delarquan. That would suck for someone it happened to though.

SmugUnchartered Poster

Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Louisiana

Posted:
Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:13 pm

Just a thought, but segregation of arenas between factions would be a lot less fun that the current state of affairs. I'm about to put a team in arena 11 just BECAUSE of the fact that everyone is up in arms over the whole "Andorian Enforcement" issue. A little off topic, but something to think about.

_________________Great Nations are built from the bones of the dead with mud and straw, blood and sweat.
You know your worth when your enemies praise you Architecture of Aggression.

GhotiAdvanced Master Poster

Joined: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 308
Location: Zimmerman, MN

Posted:
Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:55 pm

Smug wrote:

Just a thought, but segregation of arenas between factions would be a lot less fun that the current state of affairs. I'm about to put a team in arena 11 just BECAUSE of the fact that everyone is up in arms over the whole "Andorian Enforcement" issue. A little off topic, but something to think about.

Some, like myself, might argue that it wouldnt actually change a thing considering the state of affairs. There are almost always crossovers, and then there is the Free blade arenas that kinda work every which way. Larq arenas would still be a Larq arena, Freeblade arenas would still be such and the only real change is the ANdorian arenas which for the most part get invaded in some way or another all the time. Dm 11 is nothing more than a case in point. THough I think it is a great place to be at the moment. Very active though not at all Andorian.

Ghoti

carnyUnchartered Poster

Joined: Jul 20, 2002
Posts: 16

Posted:
Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:51 am

Someone in the latest ANDORAK came up with the
medical view that the LARQ attitude is an OBSESSIVE COMPULSION..I am inclined to think
there is a lot to be said for that concept and it just
may be right on target and I can't imagine any
disagreement................CARNY,Neutral Observer

gameogreGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 775
Location: San Diego

Posted:
Sun Oct 19, 2003 11:46 pm

Managerr wrote:

Quote:

I might still rag on Andorians for not facing up to the same challenges getting their darlings through basic as the rest of us, but that's by way of good humored opponents jibing. The awful treatment of accidental arrivals who just want to play "their way" would no longer be necessary.

At least for new players, not an issue anymore, they get sent to 93 so that they can research and find out what arena they really want.

Issue is tricker with returning players, especially those who played like 15+ years ago. However, the number of players who played that long ago and would get stuck in an arena that hapened to turn Andorian would be pretty slim. Most of the old old school arenas ended up becoming Delarquan. That would suck for someone it happened to though.

Yes! Yes, it did suck. You are entirely correct...

(Probably at least half my fault for leaving it up to RSI, but this site, which was the only one I had found at the time, had almost no one posting yet and I had no idea I needed to ask people about arenas to play in.)

As to the fun of invasions, I didn't suggest all the Andorian arenas be set up in that way. Just that it would answer a lot of issues, and maybe be little enough not to cause a separate stink, if one arena was set aside to run as they like.

RTRAdvanced Master Poster

Joined: Aug 06, 2005
Posts: 421
Location: Polaris

Posted:
Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:24 pm

Adie wrote:

Since this topic hadn't a single post, thought I'd try to throw one in.

Why is it that Andorian, and anything/everything associated with it, gets bagged on by everybody else? Is it because Andorian is too nice? What's your opinion of Andorian, and why...

Did you ever get your answer?

_________________Raoul the Rude
"Harbinger of Woe"
The Council of Lords

"When you cross me, you cross my entire heritage. And my ancestors were unstoppable tyrants of the City of Brass."