Perhaps a general election may jolt the Labour Party out of their current obsession with a thoroughly unfit and discredited current leader. Their membership might be persuaded to ditch Mr Corbyn if the prize is power which I believe Keir Starmer could lead them to.

Be fun to see who stands against her. And if she wins she can't be challenged as Tory boss for the next 12 months. Staggering on as a Zombie Leader.

Today's PMQs should be entertaining in a horror movie sense. Even Jezza shouldn't be able to mess this one up. Although, when presented with an open goal he's generally managed to trip over his own feet or send his shot out for a throw in.

Out of around 306)ish) tory MP's, 141 have stated that they will vote against May in the vote. It will be close

If that's the case her jacket is on a shoogly peg. You can be sure there'll be plenty who will not be open about stabbing her in the back for fear of appearing disloyal.

Bt they'll do it all the same.

Not that close 200-117 majority 83.

Enough for her to bumble on.

What can’t happen now - she can’t be taken down by her own party for a year.

Indeed the only one who can take her down is Jeremy Corbyn.

So, she will still fail to get her Brexit deal through. Does this make a no-deal Brexit more likely?

It’s totally uncharted waters and absolutely anything could happen. I’ll take a wild guess (which chances are is completely wrong) and say Article 50 will be postponed to avoid crashing out with a no deal until Parliament can vote some kind of deal through. How they can agree on something is still the same problem that doesn’t seem to have an answer due to the current make up of the Commons.

I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood

Why?

Military figures are good at running countries, or at least holding them together - think Tito (Yugoslavia fell apart only a decade after his death) Gaddafi (look at Libya now that he is gone) or Saddam Hussain (although not the failed state that Libya now is, Iraq is less safe than it was under his rule)

If you want to be more specific, for example if you want to focus on the economy, get a businessman to run your country. The US economy has improved greatly since Trump became president, because he is a businessman rather than a career politician.

I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood

Why?

Military figures are good at running countries, or at least holding them together - think Tito (Yugoslavia fell apart only a decade after his death) Gaddafi (look at Libya now that he is gone) or Saddam Hussain (although not the failed state that Libya now is, Iraq is less safe than it was under his rule)

If you want to be more specific, for example if you want to focus on the economy, get a businessman to run your country. The US economy has improved greatly since Trump became president, because he is a businessman rather than a career politician.

I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood

Why?

Military figures are good at running countries, or at least holding them together - think Tito (Yugoslavia fell apart only a decade after his death) Gaddafi (look at Libya now that he is gone) or Saddam Hussain (although not the failed state that Libya now is, Iraq is less safe than it was under his rule)

If you want to be more specific, for example if you want to focus on the economy, get a businessman to run your country. The US economy has improved greatly since Trump became president, because he is a businessman rather than a career politician.

A career politician is seldom good at anything except telling lies.

You’re joking, right?

I think Greenwood might be trolling us, but what is apparent is that all the countries he mentions fell apart spectacularly after the loss of their military leaders,who had held disparate elements together by force. Compare that to the velvet divorce between the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

As for the USA, if and when Trump goes or is impeached... who knows, but he has tried to latch on to, or take over, a far right ideology rather than being a technocratic business manager; see how he has betrayed the Kurds today (not that he is the first American president to have done that) in his subservience to Russia.

Perhaps you could be more specific though and tell me why you think I'm joking? By the way, I wouldn't support military dictatorships or vote for Trump - I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint.

Perhaps you could be more specific though and tell me why you think I'm joking> (By the way, I wouldn't support military dictatorships or vote for Trump - I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)

So you wouldn’t support a military dictatorship but you put forward murderous military dictators to exemplify your argument.

Perhaps you could be more specific though and tell me why you think I'm joking> (By the way, I wouldn't support military dictatorships or vote for Trump - I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)

So you wouldn’t support a military dictatorship but you put forward murderous military dictators to exemplify your argument.

Hmm.

Yes, that is true. Living under a benevolent dictator (there have been a few of these, although no-one remembers them) is the ideal compromise but a murderous one could arguably still be preferable to a failed state like Libya.

Ataturk had one of the major things that tends to blight attempts to be benevolent dictators, (as most at least start with good intentions - although I would not like to speak for Putin)

This is that he did not suffer from longevity. The view of his rule is tempered by the fact that much of his reform programme was in line with (and in some cases ahead of) thinking in western democracies.

If you look back at the careers of people like Suharto and Magabe, then when they first came to power they were popular - they could have won democratic elections. Power corrupts, and both these dictators became more corrupt as time went on. Their families and cohorts were enriching themselves out of connections to power. Both in their later years were more concerned with hanging on to power, (if only not to be arrested for what they have already done).

Ataturk had one of the major things that tends to blight attempts to be benevolent dictators, (as most at least start with good intentions - although I would not like to speak for Putin)

This is that he did not suffer from longevity. The view of his rule is tempered by the fact that much of his reform programme was in line with (and in some cases ahead of) thinking in western democracies.

If you look back at the careers of people like Suharto and Magabe, then when they first came to power they were popular - they could have won democratic elections. Power corrupts, and both these dictators became more corrupt as time went on. Their families and cohorts were enriching themselves out of connections to power. Both in their later years were more concerned with hanging on to power, (if only not to be arrested for what they have already done).

Salazar probably holds the longevity record for dictators from 1932 to 1968.Unusually his title was Prime Minister rather than President or some other grand title like Fuhrer, Duce or Caudillo.

She must have more brass neck than anyone in the history of British politics. She called a General Election, which she said she wouldn't, to get a mandate, which she already had, for a policy that she had campaigned against; only to lose her majority. She has suffered more parliamentary defeats than any PM in decades, including failing to get her Finance Bill through unamended, culminating in a record defeat on her flagship policy last night. She has survived a vote of confidence in which the majority of her backbenchers opposed her.

Why doesn't she resign? Why are her backbenchers not taking the opportunity to threaten to vote against her in today's no confidence motion unless she goes. It would take fewer than ten of them to get her out and, provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?

Why are her backbenchers not taking the opportunity to threaten to vote against her in today's no confidence motion unless she goes. It would take fewer than ten of them to get her out and, provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?

The backbenchers had the chance to force her out before Christmas and failed.

She must have more brass neck than anyone in the history of British politics. She called a General Election, which she said she wouldn't, to get a mandate, which she already had, for a policy that she had campaigned against; only to lose her majority. She has suffered more parliamentary defeats than any PM in decades, including failing to get her Finance Bill through unamended, culminating in a record defeat on her flagship policy last night. She has survived a vote of confidence in which the majority of her backbenchers opposed her.

Why doesn't she resign? Why are her backbenchers not taking the opportunity to threaten to vote against her in today's no confidence motion unless she goes. It would take fewer than ten of them to get her out and, provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?

Conservative Party rules state that there can't be a leadership challenge for 12 months after a previous challenge and a motion to oust her was defeated before Christmas. I don't know whether there are special circumstances where a fresh challenge could be made within 12 months. Of course, May could resign but not opt for a GE.

At the moment. no one seems to want the job and if they do then it would be a career ending time to take on the job of PM. Once a clear(er) path to Brexit has been agreed with both parliament and the EU then MP's will be queuing up take May's job

The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.

Not a site I thought I'd ever provide a link to, but I think that speech will be brought to mind by Tory MPs and party members when May takes up hill walking full time.

I don't suppose Labour MPs expected that the Confidence debate would conclude with them sat stoney faced, squirming in their seats and trying not to nod in agreement when Gove laid bare Jezza's unfitness for being entrusted with the role of PM.

As for my lot's Leader, dancing Vince, it was nice that Gove gave him a mention, even though it was in the form of a joke. .

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tory MPs end up with one favoured candidate and one candidate making up the numbers, and then that second candidate withdrawing "to preserve unity in the party" and the membership being denied the opportunity to choose the leader for the second time in a row.

Someone else becomes leader of tory party but can't get a commons majority, then what? Is she still PM? Fixed term parliament act makes a general election more difficult and this weird situation a tad more likely, though unlikely I admit.

They just don't learn do they? Every candidate for the Tory leadership is wittering on about uniting the party. That will lead them straight back to where they are now. Uniting the Tory party is not important, getting the country out of this mess is. State your views, campaign on them and, if you win, ignore the others. If they don't like it they can leave for another party or start a new one.

Oh for the good old days when the likes of Margaret Thatcher, Tony Benn or Enoch Powell told you what they believed and campaigned and acted on those beliefs. You then voted for them knowing what you were going to get.

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

Indeed, any half-credible opposition should be wiping the floor with this government yet Labour are also imploding under their own incompetence. Still think it was all a prank that made Corbyn leader - the ultimate oxymoron.

Indeed, any half-credible opposition should be wiping the floor with this government yet Labour are also imploding under their own incompetence. Still think it was all a prank that made Corbyn leader - the ultimate oxymoron.

The irony of expelling Campbell for voting against Labour by the most rebellious labour MP during Labour’s 13 years in office.

For labour to sweep the next GE, make Kier Starmer leader now. Get John McDonald and Diane Abbot as far away from the Labour front bench as possible.

They’ve only got to nudge slightly right to defeat the Tories. If they don’t, I honestly think the Tories could put Anyone in as PM and they’d win.

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

Shame its just him! I hope they throw the book at him He will be a martyr to the Brexit cause No Doubt he will have Putin and Trump as character witnesses with his defence being funded by Aaron Banks. Would be great to see his opening prime ministers speech behind bars. Its just a pity we don't have impeachment over here!

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing . Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing . Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.

Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

I have to smile at your predictable defence of your boy but I'm pleased that you aren't shouting Project Fear yet, as is normal when a Brexiter is confronted with facts. Anyway you should be commended for your loyalty and the way you are sticking to your principles. It provides hours of mirth in our house. Keep up the good work but prepare yourself, just in case......

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important.

How about accurate to the nearest £100 million? Is that too much to expect from a prospective PM?

He lied through his teeth. It's what he does. It's what he always does. Bojo the clown with his pants on fire for PM! Ah well, I suppose it's appropriate for the Brexit farce that's made us an international laughing stock.

The mystery is why anyone knowing anything of Boris would believe a word he says.

Of course, the reason why Brexiters are happy to suggest another Referendum 10 or 20 years down the line is that they know that the Rebates that currently reduce the £350 Million by £100 Million would not be on offer, so annual membership on rejoining the EU would cost much more than currently.

........so annual membership on rejoining the EU would cost much more than currently.

.

If it still exists in its present form, which is debatable in its own right!

As for politicians lying, well it is their stock in trade. To prosecute Johnson is laughable and I would wager that it will only benefit him in his quest for the top job.

This current furore surrounding Johnson pales into insignificance when compared to ....

Clegg....I will vote against raising tuition fees and then promptly traipses through the lobby to triple them Corbyn.....I have never met the IRA Blair.....Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction Osborne..... A Leave vote will result in a recession and an extra 80,000 unemployed

Not one of these liars was prosecuted. The jury in these cases is the electorate. If every politicians lie was prosecuted the courts would be overflowing. I rest my case

In Clegg's case I'm not sure which was the bigger lie, his pledge to reduce Tuition Fees pre the 2010 GE or his very belated apology after voting for the opposite when in office.

You're right, of course, about the comical idea of holding politicians to account for their campaign lies through the courts. But we seem to have entered a twilight zone where the absurd has become the norm.

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing . Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.

Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

I have to smile at your predictable defence of your boy but I'm pleased that you aren't shouting Project Fear yet, as is normal when a Brexiter is confronted with facts. Anyway you should be commended for your loyalty and the way you are sticking to your principles. It provides hours of mirth in our house. Keep up the good work but prepare yourself, just in case......

Obviously I'm not aware of every utterance of Johnson and in what capacity it was said, but the general principle of the court case is ridiculous tbh because pretty much every politician in a principle role will have said things that they will argue was their understanding of the situation at that time.

Clegg's tuition fee stance was bare faced lying and he sold out his voters for a seat of power in Cabinet. What about all the Project Fear nonsense from Remain politicians, Mark Carney et al? Will climate change scientists and their advocates be hauled through the courts in 2029 when we find the planet hasn't died and our ecology hasn't collapsed by then?.........Their 'lies' doesn't mean their general message isnt indicative and relevant does it?

As for Johnson being 'my man' .......That's laughable. I can't stand the man. He's a total buffoon and not fit for high office.......That's a statement you can file away for future reference should you require.

My principles are quite straightforward.....hold an election then honour the result.

EU membership is simply a trading arrangement with a few whistles and bells that we are in the process of adjusting. It's not life or death as the liars in the Remain camp would have us believe.

........so annual membership on rejoining the EU would cost much more than currently.

.

If it still exists in its present form, which is debatable in its own right!

As for politicians lying, well it is their stock in trade. To prosecute Johnson is laughable and I would wager that it will only benefit him in his quest for the top job.

This current furore surrounding Johnson pales into insignificance when compared to ....

Clegg....I will vote against raising tuition fees and then promptly traipses through the lobby to triple them Corbyn.....I have never met the IRA Blair.....Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction Osborne..... A Leave vote will result in a recession and an extra 80,000 unemployed

Not one of these liars was prosecuted. The jury in these cases is the electorate. If every politicians lie was prosecuted the courts would be overflowing. I rest my case

Just how stupid is the UK electorate? 26% would vote for a one-man party (actually not a party but a company) with a single policy.

This shows exactly why Cameron called the referendum in the first place. It also serves as a convenient reminder ahead of the Tory leadership election as to what would happen if a Rory Stewart or the like became leader.

Cameron called the Referendum because he'd made a stupid pledge that he never for a moment thought he'd have to honour, and then to his surprise found he'd won an overall majority in the 2015 GE and had painted himself into a corner over a Referendum.

Even then I think he'd have reneged on the promise if he hadn't thought he could blag his way to victory as he'd done in other contests.

The big question now is, if a no-dealer is elected leader, can he/she herd his/her MPs into line to go along with something that the Remainer and Soft Brexiter Tory MPs genuinely consider will seriously damage the nation.

Jezza''s 1970s Citizen Smith style response to a state visit by the Head of State of by far our most important ally confirms he is completely unfitted to be PM.

As for the current Tory runners and riders, I'd go for Gove. Not something that at one time I ever thought I'd say. Unlike Johnson I"ve been impressed by his record in office and his defence of Theresa May in the HofC confidence debate was a tour de force (are we still allowed to use French phrases? )

Jezza''s 1970s Citizen Smith style response to a state visit by the Head of State of by far our most important ally confirms he is completely unfitted to be PM.

As for the current Tory runners and riders, I'd go for Gove. Not something that at one time I ever thought I'd say. Unlike Johnson I"ve been impressed by his record in office and his defence of Theresa May in the HofC confidence debate was a tour de force (are we still allowed to use French phrases? ) .

Totally agree with your analysis Jon....by far and away the 'best' man for the job. He is intellectually sound and unlike many in the party not tainted by an Etonian background.

You're allowed to change your mind, of course, now that he has outed himself as a hypocritical cokehead.

Boris Johnson, true to form, is pandering to the greed and selfishness of his fellow Tories by offering big tax cuts to those earning double the national average.

Just forget about the 4.5 million children and one million pensioners living in poverty, the million plus who are referred to foodbanks, the lack of funding of schools, police, NHS. Let's give back more to the rich.

One who's mantra about hard drugs seems to be "do as I say not do as I do"

Another who wants to restrict access to abortion for women

One who wants us to default on our sovereign debt to the EU, and then basically spend all the net saving on contributions from leaving the EU on tax cuts for the richest 8% of the population

Another two who want to suspend parliament for months to force the leaving of the EU with no deal

And that's to say nothing about some of the stupid statements that have come out in the last 48 hours about how they'd deal with the UK/EU border in Ireland.

What a lovely bunch the Conservative party members have to choose from!

Totally agree - what a complete and utter shambles.

At least Boris Johnson is now finally coming clean regarding his reasons for supporting Brexit. Tax cuts for the rich as a starting point - no doubt followed by removing employees rights once we’re free from EU ‘red tape’.

Great news for all the ‘City’ based Old Etonian elite. Incredible how many people are taken in by our written media, toffs like Jacob Rees-Mogg and charlatans like Nigel Farage.

Let's hope Esther Mcvey becomes the next PM and then she can dismantle the NHS, and cut all DWP benefits. At least then every British citizen living in the UK can all suffer together while she, her party colleagues, can fill their pockets.

The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing . Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.

Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign. Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any lies

It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing . Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.

Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

I have to smile at your predictable defence of your boy but I'm pleased that you aren't shouting Project Fear yet, as is normal when a Brexiter is confronted with facts. Anyway you should be commended for your loyalty and the way you are sticking to your principles. It provides hours of mirth in our house. Keep up the good work but prepare yourself, just in case......

“On Monday morning, Jeremy Hunt was asked at the launch of his campaign for the Conservative leadership whether he had ever broken the criminal law. “I’m just really racking my brain at the moment,” the foreign secretary replied, “but the answer is no.”

Just five hours later, however, Hunt was forced to clarify that response when he acknowledged to BuzzFeed News that he had in fact breached his own government’s anti-money laundering laws last year.”

ComRes for the Telegraph today suggests Boris would lead the Tories to a 140 majority in a General Election.

Labour are currently on course for a minority government with May. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Whats the bet the Telegraph is backing Boris as they're shouting about extrapolated seats, based on unknown biases, from a small number random phone calls.

Crucially, Boris can’t be overtaken by two candidates (unless he loses support), therefore guaranteed to be in the final 2.

Yes, looks like he's guaranteed to be one of the two candidates to be put before the Tory membership. Which presumably means its definitely going to be PM Bojo.

Last night's episode of "This Week" was fun and feisty on the subject. I recommend taking a look at it. Surprisingly, Portillo, who over the months has shown he clearly hates Boris, seemed in favour of him winning the contest.

I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?

I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?

We seem to be moving away from a world where personal life has an impact on your political career.

The rule seems to be, do what you like, preferably not illegal, but just DON’T lie about it!

For those that read Private Eye the 'Classic Comedy Sketch Rediscovered' on p94 had me in stitches and just about sums up the Tory leadership contest. For those that don't it has the four Yorshiremen from Monty Python discussing Brexit. Starts off with us leaving on Oct 31st but the EU paying us £39 billion and progresses through to us executing the Royal family, siezing control of the army and t'utilities and nuking Paris and Berlin so we get a good trade deal. "and if you don't do that you'll end up with a Corbyn Government in..... but you tell the young people that, they won't believe you"

I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?

We seem to be moving away from a world where personal life has an impact on your political career.

The rule seems to be, do what you like, preferably not illegal, but just DON’T lie about it!

I’m sure if it was Corbyn’s personal life, he’d have been hung out to dry by the right wing press. But because Boris is part of that right wing press & this won’t get the same headlines. I wonder how many times Boris has failed to keep it in his trousers & with how many women?

I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?

We seem to be moving away from a world where personal life has an impact on your political career.

The rule seems to be, do what you like, preferably not illegal, but just DON’T lie about it!

How ironic. As we leave the EU we adopt the French attitude towards privacy.

My goodness that was just awful tonight wasn't it. Johnson had clearly been coached to memorise a handful of short speeches on topics likely to come up and ploughed through them despite interruptions along the lines of 'can you answer the question' and 'we know all that but that isn't the question' Gove is just a horrible weasel, he apparently is the only one with a plan and that plan appears to be to knock Corbyn at every opportunity. I can't help but think of Baldrick every time he mentions his 'plan'.

Stewart thinking being sensible is a vote winner in the Tory environment that he lives in is quite obviously foolish. He is clearly in the wrong party. Hunt is just another grey man, John Major Mark 2. He is careful to say nothing much at all, it's obvious this all just an interview for a job in Johnsons cabinet for him. Javid... well I can't remember anything he said, he'll be out tomorrow anyway. Never mind Brexit, these people have been in Government for 10 years and have overseen and voted for the policies that has left the country in the state it is in. It's a bit late now to believe they have the will to want to put it right.

For those that read Private Eye the 'Classic Comedy Sketch Rediscovered' on p94 had me in stitches and just about sums up the Tory leadership contest. For those that don't it has the four Yorshiremen from Monty Python discussing Brexit. Starts off with us leaving on Oct 31st but the EU paying us £39 billion and progresses through to us executing the Royal family, siezing control of the army and t'utilities and nuking Paris and Berlin so we get a good trade deal. "and if you don't do that you'll end up with a Corbyn Government in..... but you tell the young people that, they won't believe you"

I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?

Obviously the ladies like him.

I don't think it matters how many 'ladies' he's taken around the back of the bike sheds.

Surely, in 2019, that is completely irrelevant to his political persona.

It wouldn't surprise me if Rory Stewart the candidate who appears to want to throw us over the cliff the least out of all the others, might get squeezed out by tactical voting. Johnson is certain for the final 2, so expect some of Johnsons supporters to go for Javid this time.

I don’t think Rory did particularly well yesterday. Whilst it’s Ok to say that he’s not promising more spending or tax cuts, he didn’t give us a sense of what his priorities are if there is any money left.

So we’re really clear what Boris will do on taxes (like it or not), when / if he can afford it.

Jeremy Hunt said he’d increase the threshold for NI.

One of the others mentioned lowering the basic rate of tax.

At some point, people need to know what you stand for, even if you can’t promise it, depending on economic circumstances

And don’t get me started on him trying to get May’s Brexit deal through a fourth time....

Irrespective of the accuracy or otherwise of the accusation, I was surprised John Bercow didn't require Ian Blackford to withdraw the word. Bercow suggested that he withdraw it but as far as I could tell, Blackford didn't do so.

There are various words that are deemed too provocative or too great a slur on the honour of an "honourable" member to be allowed to stand. Among the words ruled over the years to constitute unparliamentary language are coward, idiot, hypocrite, traitor, swine and drunk.

Maybe Bercow thinks soon to be PM Johnson through his deliberately controversial polemics in his newspaper columns has set himself up for some rough treatment in the HofC. A worrying omen for how much of a bear pit the HofC may become in the autumn.

Irrespective of the accuracy or otherwise of the accusation, I was surprised John Bercow didn't require Ian Blackford to withdraw the word. Bercow suggested that he withdraw it but as far as I could tell, Blackford didn't do so.

There are various words that are deemed too provocative or too great a slur on the honour of an "honourable" member to be allowed to stand. Among the words ruled over the years to constitute unparliamentary language are coward, idiot, hypocrite, traitor, swine and drunk.

Maybe Bercow thinks soon to be PM Johnson through his deliberately controversial polemics in his newspaper columns has set himself up for some rough treatment in the HofC. A worrying omen for how much of a bear pit the HofC may become in the autumn.

PMQ's might become prime time viewing, but at midday instead of the evening.

The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.

One of the least edifying aspects of this current Parliament is having to suffer the slittering ( Scots word!), slobbering Intellectual desert that is Ian Blackford continualy wallow in his cringeworthy Scottish Victim Persona or see him hollering smugly from his High Moral Pedestal with his zombie psychophants gurning around him.

Their pathetic attempts to disrupt proceedings by introducing Scottish swearwords in to Hansard and calling Tories rude names has been probably the most pointless political campaign ever undertaken in the history of Westminster.

Theresa May has had some of her best moments slapping down the bloated Tick.

One of the least edifying aspects of this current Parliament is having to suffer the slittering ( Scots word!), slobbering Intellectual desert that is Ian Blackford continualy wallow in his cringeworthy Scottish Victim Persona or see him hollering smugly from his High Moral Pedestal with his zombie psychophants gurning around him.

Their pathetic attempts to disrupt proceedings by introducing Scottish swearwords in to Hansard and calling Tories rude names has been probably the most pointless political campaign ever undertaken in the history of Westminster.

Theresa May has had some of her best moments slapping down the bloated Tick.

Slittering is the act of being a slitter. Careful mate, you are slittering. Dinnie want to see any Buckie getting wasted.

I am unclear why you think this applies to Ian Blackford unless you share meals with him.

Perhaps the word you are looking for is slavering. In proper usage slaver is the involuntary secretion of liquids from the mouth. In Scottish usage, usually when combined with term "pish", slavering means talking poorly thought-out nonsense.

I agree that it does apply to Mr Blackford at times but I would suggest it also applies to some of the recent postings on here about Scotland. "The SNP hate the British Army" and "The SNP hate Rangers" are two of the more spectacular examples of slavering.

Your comments about Scottish dialect and vernacular being used in the House of Commons mystify me. We are, after all, a Union of 4 nations and the language and culture of each are surely all equally valid? Or should Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland simply be colonies of England?

One of the least edifying aspects of this current Parliament is having to suffer the slittering ( Scots word!), slobbering Intellectual desert that is Ian Blackford continualy wallow in his cringeworthy Scottish Victim Persona or see him hollering smugly from his High Moral Pedestal with his zombie psychophants gurning around him.

Their pathetic attempts to disrupt proceedings by introducing Scottish swearwords in to Hansard and calling Tories rude names has been probably the most pointless political campaign ever undertaken in the history of Westminster.

Theresa May has had some of her best moments slapping down the bloated Tick.

Slittering is the act of being a slitter. Careful mate, you are slittering. Dinnie want to see any Buckie getting wasted.

I am unclear why you think this applies to Ian Blackford unless you share meals with him.

Perhaps the word you are looking for is slavering. In proper usage slaver is the involuntary secretion of liquids from the mouth. In Scottish usage, usually when combined with term "pish", slavering means talking poorly thought-out nonsense.

I agree that it does apply to Mr Blackford at times but I would suggest it also applies to some of the recent postings on here about Scotland. "The SNP hate the British Army" and "The SNP hate Rangers" are two of the more spectacular examples of slavering.

Your comments about Scottish dialect and vernacular being used in the House of Commons mystify me. We are, after all, a Union of 4 nations and the language and culture of each are surely all equally valid? Or should Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland simply be colonies of England?

Yes that's exactly why I used slitter because every time he speaks his dribbles his food down his shirt, but slaver will do because he talks a lot of slavering pish.

And yes, I love Scots dialect and language and it should be used naturally but every time a Scots word is used in Parliament by a SNP mp they all run around patting themselves o the back afterwards on Twitter as though they've plunged a Dirk in to the heart of the enemy.....pathetic tbh.

And yes, I firmly believe the SNP hates the British Armed forces and Rangers FC....Its not even as if it's a dirty little secret. It's quite blatant to see when you live here.

There is a distinction to be drawn between genuine dialects such as Shetland, Lallans and Doric which can be almost unrecognisable to Anglicised ears, and slang. The origins of these are often old Norse, Celtic, Gaelic or Brittonic.

Modern Scots slang, as opposed to dialect, does have many bastardisations of English terms. However, it also includes elements of older influences and other influences such as Scottish Travelling People and recent migrants to Scotland.

This list includes examples of all of these, but also includes terms which are certainly not unique to Scotland.

For instance there are individuals who for some reason seem to want to shoehorn Latin phrases unnecessarily into their speech.

Maybe they think these phrases fall naturally into the context in which they're being used. Or maybe it's because they want to display their "learning" (generally acquired expensively at public school).

As someone who many moons ago studied Latin (not at Eton or suchlike ), I understand the phrases being used but not why any normal human being would want to use them rather than the equally appropriate modern English equivalents.

It is amusing to see some prominent Little Englanders readily use Latin phrases when that is the language of the first European wide empire.

I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.

For instance there are individuals who for some reason seem to want to shoehorn Latin phrases unnecessarily into their speech.

Maybe they think these phrases fall naturally into the context in which they're being used. Or maybe it's because they want to display their "learning" (generally acquired expensively at public school).

As someone who many moons ago studied Latin (not at Eton or suchlike ), I understand the phrases being used but not why any normal human being would want to use them rather than the equally appropriate modern English equivalents.

It is amusing to see some prominent Little Englanders readily use Latin phrases when that is the language of the first European wide empire.

.

It's your condescending conclusion that these people are 'Little Englanders' that is at fault. Little Englander is a fault ridden lazy left stereotype that really has no place in a serious discussion. People use Latin because it sounds beautiful and can often be more incisive. Theres nothing to gain politically by denigrating people using Latin if they like to.

There is a distinction to be drawn between genuine dialects such as Shetland, Lallans and Doric which can be almost unrecognisable to Anglicised ears, and slang. The origins of these are often old Norse, Celtic, Gaelic or Brittonic.

Modern Scots slang, as opposed to dialect, does have many bastardisations of English terms. However, it also includes elements of older influences and other influences such as Scottish Travelling People and recent migrants to Scotland.

This list includes examples of all of these, but also includes terms which are certainly not unique to Scotland.

I agree....one of the nice things about living in Scotland is that the dialects and slang is in such wide and common usage and is a direct link to our historical past. It's something that has been lost to much of Southern England.

I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.

Another distinction is between Scots pronunciation (and very northern English) and English which arises from the Great Vowel Shift in Middle English (1350-1700).

Pre-GVS the pronunciation of the modern English words "house", "brown" , 'town' "cow," "down" "now" approximated to hoose, broon, toon, coo, doon noo. In English the vowel sound shifted, but not in Scots.

The same with the vowel sound in English stone, home, bone. Old English was stane, hame, bane,

And of course the Middle English "hw" sound in "which", "when", "what" has disappeared in English, but not Scots. I'm always alarmed when I hear an English newsreader report the sighting of Wales in the Thames.

Scots pronunciation and vocabulary also owes a lot to Scandinavian languages. If you watch the Saturday night Scandi-noir series you can hear whole sentences which are almost pure Scots;

Theres nothing to gain politically by denigrating people using Latin if they like to.

Bur feel free to denigrate Scots using the Scots leid in the parliament they have been elected to.

It's not the language used it's their belief that they've done something subversive when they do.....its petty I wish they would use their time constructively for the people of Scotland rather than scoring points in a game no one else is playing or thinks useful. But hey ho!

I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.

Another distinction is between Scots pronunciation (and very northern English) and English which arises from the Great Vowel Shift in Middle English (1350-1700).

Pre-GVS the pronunciation of the modern English words "house", "brown" , 'town' "cow," "down" "now" approximated to hoose, broon, toon, coo, doon noo. In English the vowel sound shifted, but not in Scots.

The same with the vowel sound in English stone, home, bone. Old English was stane, hame, bane,

And of course the Middle English "hw" sound in "which", "when", "what" has disappeared in English, but not Scots. I'm always alarmed when I hear an English newsreader report the sighting of Wales in the Thames.

Scots pronunciation and vocabulary also owes a lot to Scandinavian languages. If you watch the Saturday night Scandi-noir series you can hear whole sentences which are almost pure Scots;

To actually get back on topic, make another thread if you want to discuss dialects..... this 'contest' is a complete sham. It will end with Johnson as PM and Hunt as Chancellor. It's already decided between the two of them, Johnson made sure to lend out a few votes to Hunt to avoid a messy battle with Gove. It's so transparent it's laughable.

It's 300 Tory MPs doing what they think is best for their party, no more than that. It'd certainly be laughable if they'd chosen a course of action that'd lead to more turmoil for them. Although I think Johnson's team may have lent votes to Hunt to give Johnson the best chance of winning amongst the membership, not just to avoid a messy showdown.

Really? can you imagine the Press free for all in a Johnson v Gove contest given past history? Yes the Tory MPs are doing what they think is best for their party with no regard for what's best for the country. Johnsons reign as PM will be very short and I don't think that will bother him for one moment, he's just ticked another box on his list. Then him and his Dad will carry on earning a living from dubious hedge funds and all will be as normal. Johnson will be PM and Hunt will be announced as Chancellor. It's a done deal.

"Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.'''"

Really? can you imagine the Press free for all in a Johnson v Gove contest given past history?

Yes, which is why I said it'd be laughable if they'd voted to expose themselves to that.

By extension they - like MPs in any other party - will believe that what's best for the party IS best for the country. Put another way, I'm not sure they've sacrificed the country's best interests by the choice they've left themselves rather than some other candidate.

Hardly inspiring, I agree. Looks to me like a seriously dysfunctional party desperately trying to patch itself up enough to see off an utterly hapless opposition when the inevitable election is called. Can't wait for that..

I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.

Another distinction is between Scots pronunciation (and very northern English) and English which arises from the Great Vowel Shift in Middle English (1350-1700).

Pre-GVS the pronunciation of the modern English words "house", "brown" , 'town' "cow," "down" "now" approximated to hoose, broon, toon, coo, doon noo. In English the vowel sound shifted, but not in Scots.

The same with the vowel sound in English stone, home, bone. Old English was stane, hame, bane,

And of course the Middle English "hw" sound in "which", "when", "what" has disappeared in English, but not Scots. I'm always alarmed when I hear an English newsreader report the sighting of Wales in the Thames.

Scots pronunciation and vocabulary also owes a lot to Scandinavian languages. If you watch the Saturday night Scandi-noir series you can hear whole sentences which are almost pure Scots;

Ok last word on this but I tested my partner on the few words there that I hadn't heard used myself.... een, keek , quine and fu ( all the others are commonly used here) She didn't know quine but knew the rest. Also they say 'hawf' for house and in Hawick they'll say mi and yow for me and you and 'oo' for we is common in the borders.

"Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.'''"

"Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.'''"

Well the good news is that if they have such a screaming match when in they're in No.10, there'll be a policeman already at hand, outside the front door.

I suppose it's a reminder that even at this late stage there is one man who can still derail Johnson's leadership campaign, and it isn't Jeremy Hunt.

.

I agree but it's hard to deny that the whole metropolitan media eite in both London and Glasgow are waging a vicious and sustained campaign to undermine Johnson's credibility in any way possible Long gone is the pretence of reporting 'NEWS' and well entrenched is the agenda for manipulating public opinion

Such a shame........and not because I'm a fan of Johnson but because I'm a fan of media impartiality.

First order of business for Johnson if he becomes PM is to break up the BBC, I should think !!

It’s one of those big headlines, no story stories. A couple have an argument in the confines of their own house.

Strange though that the ‘neighbour’ who recorded it and sent for the police went to the Guardian of all the newspapers.

I suspect if you scratch beneath the surface, they’ll be connected to the newspaper and basically listening out for anything that’s going on.

That said, Boris should be keeping himself spotless at the minute.

I think that's slightly over the top in terms of a conspiracy theory.

The story is, of course, a nonsense. A couple have a screaming/shouting/banging doors row. Wow. Couples never row do they?

As you say, it's the behaviour of the neighbour in involving the police that is interesting, in that it gives the media the magic word "police" to put in the headlines. I suspect that it's a case of a neighbour with no love for Johnson or his politics jumping at the chance to record a fiery bust-up and then having the bright idea of adding the police to the mix.

Naturally, "The Guardian" were interested in the story, but as you can see from today's headlines, so were all the other papers. Stories about Johnson sell newspapers. The "Mail Online", that bastion of the right, was already running a detailed story about his wives, mistresses and how many children he acknowledges as fathering. Whatever his faults, in media terms, Johnson isn't boring.

Actually, if you're looking for something underhand happening, that "Mail Online" feature on his wives/mistresses etc seems to have now completely disappeared!

Following the story breaking last night I was intrigued by the fact that newspaper sites were running with it earlier and harder than the BBC. I think the Beeb know Brexiters have already taken against them and are nervous of looking like they're anti Boris.

I doubt whether it'll impact on Johnson's chances of becoming PM. I'd have thought that like Trump in the States, his supporters have come to expect, and make allowance for, the bizarre.

The revelation last night is certainly highly relevant. The character of the candidates should be a major factor in deciding who should lead the party.

Johnson is a charlatan, a liar, an egotist, a sociopath and a facilitator of an assault on a journalist .

True. But the row didn't reveal his utter unfitness for high office, all the evidence was well known already.

And to a majority of Tory members it appears it just doesn't matter.

What matters to them is that he was one of the leaders of the Leave campaign and was twice elected Mayor of London. Leave credentials and electoral success.

The recent yougov survey seems to indicate that the members are wholly focused on two linked issues, Brexit and Farage. If the survey accurately reflects the current mood, the members are willing to sacrifice almost everything else.

I would imagine she has just learned and is coming to terms with the reality of being in the public spotlight.

Learning that your 'nice' neighbours hate you for your political allegience and have been using listening devices and have been spying on you since you started dating Boris must have come as a shock and I imagine she's looking on Zoopla or Rightmove as we speak.

Learning that your 'nice' neighbours hate you for your political allegience and have been using listening devices and have been spying on you since you started dating Boris must have come as a shock and I imagine she's looking on Zoopla or Rightmove as we speak.

"Listening devices"? It was a mobile phone, the shouting was loud enough the be recorded on a mobile phone in another flat. Police advice is to call them if you fear that someone may be a victim of domestic violence, they say this because often the victim is too scared to call them for fear of more violence. The recording could have been crucial evidence in any ensuing court case. I certainly wish my sister's neighbours had called the police on the night she ended up in a three day coma after being beaten up by her (now ex) husband. they admitted after that they had heard the shouting and things being broken but "didn't feel it was their place to intervene".

I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.

I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.

Out of interest, is the Scottish view on independence swayed significantly by the short-term current occupant of number 10 Downing Street, as opposed to a long term view as to what is best for Scotland?

So, for example if Jeremy Hunt, Jeremy Corbyn or Vince Cable we’re PM, would that impact on the opinion?

I guess I assumed the Scottish voters were a little less reactionary to current events, but maybe i’m wrong.

I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.

This clip does not tell us whether it Johnson told a deliberate lie, or just does not understand the issue. Coming from a minister in his own party, it does show why he cannot be trusted as an MP, let alone as PM

I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.

A little further back in time, Gladstone was famous for his ability to chop down trees.

There have also, of course, been attempts by politicians to pretend to have hobbies that they think make them appear "normal". One PM famously seemed confused as to whether the football team he supported was West Ham or Aston Villa.

Maybe Johnson's problem was thinking up a hobby/interest other than the obvious of playing away.

I was brought up in Kirkcaldy, near to where Raith play. I started going in the 1950s when I was about seven or eight. The first game I remember seeing was an East Fife-Raith Rovers derby on New Year's Day. My father took my older brother, John, and myself. For much of my youth John and I sold programmes outside Stark's Park on matchday. You queued up before the season began to become a programme-seller; once you had your slot you had it for the whole season. I went along on a Saturday about two hours before the match started, sold the programme and then, before half-time, I was allowed in free to watch the game, as well as being paid.

The great Jim Baxter was playing for us then. He was a superb left-half, a tremendous passer of the ball. I remember the time he was playing for Scotland against England and taunted the English by playing keepy-uppy. We snapped him up while he was working as a miner in Fife: many of the Rovers players came from mining backgrounds.

Becoming a footballer was seen as a way out of the mines. I think that's why so many players, and also managers such as Jock Stein and Bill Shankly, came from mining areas like Lanarkshire and Ayrshire. When Baxter left us after three seasons for Rangers, people complained that the transfer fee ( £20,000) was a disgrace, that he'd been sold far too cheaply. It was said that Baxter left Rovers because he'd had a fight with the chairman's wife - as if Raith Rovers could have held onto a player of his special talent for another few years! Sadly Raith have never had as much success as I'd like. People sometimes ask why politicians talk about skills and training all the time. I tell them they would too if they had to go and watch Raith every week. Our best moment was beating Celtic in the final of the Scottish League Cup in 1994. The match was played at Ibrox - I'm sure Rangers helped us by flooding the pitch or something! The tragedy for me was that I had to do a television interview in London that morning and my plane to Glasgow afterwards was cancelled: I had to listen to the radio commentary on the match being played down a friend's phone. We won 6-5 on penalties after a 2-2 draw. It's still the only major trophy Raith have won.

We then drew Bayern Munich in the Uefa Cup and at half-time in the second leg over there the scoreboard carried the immortal scoreline: Bayern Munich 0 Raith Rovers 1. (We lost 2-1). Part of the reason we aren't any better is that there are three other teams in the area: Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath and East Fife. So I'm not very popular in some parts of my constituency because I support Raith.

Of course there are many more glamorous clubs that have huge amounts of money and watching them on television is very enjoyable. But I'm a firm believer that supporting your local team, the team you've been brought up with, is very important. Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer, is MP for Dunfermline East. Interview by Denis Campbell

Irrespective of the accuracy or otherwise of the accusation, I was surprised John Bercow didn't require Ian Blackford to withdraw the word. Bercow suggested that he withdraw it but as far as I could tell, Blackford didn't do so.

There are various words that are deemed too provocative or too great a slur on the honour of an "honourable" member to be allowed to stand. Among the words ruled over the years to constitute unparliamentary language are coward, idiot, hypocrite, traitor, swine and drunk.

Maybe Bercow thinks soon to be PM Johnson through his deliberately controversial polemics in his newspaper columns has set himself up for some rough treatment in the HofC. A worrying omen for how much of a bear pit the HofC may become in the autumn.

PMQ's might become prime time viewing, but at midday instead of the evening.

Nice quiet PMQs so far today.

Ian Blackford calls out Bojo for lying …. and isn't required to withdraw the word by Bercow.

I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.

The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.

I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.

Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.

I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.

Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.

There really isn't much of substance in your list there.

The Hillsborough claim would be the worst.

The expenses claims can be applied to just about every MP.

The Junior Dr claim is just BMA propaganda. Hunt was right to reform doctors' contracts and the new contracts actually protected them from ridiculously excessive hours.

The hospital picture is a minor mistake anyone who is not anNHS employee could make

Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.

In Reply To

There really isn't much of substance in your list there.

The Junior Dr claim is just BMA propaganda. Hunt was right to reform doctors' contracts and the new contracts actually protected them from ridiculously excessive hours.

Really not much to get your knickers in a twist about.

Certainly not as bad as having a Marxo-Fascist PM such as Corbyn

I'd agree with you that there are arguments to defend much of what's on the list.

Sadly, however, the accusation re Junior Doctors is accurate, trying to blame the BMA just doesn't stand up. Doctors aren't people who can be herded into industrial action against their will, they are as a whole intensely supportive of the principles of the NHS and committed to providing the best possible support for their patients. Withdrawing their service is something they only do in extremis.

A Government really has to rile them to provoke them into industrial action. Hunt managed it.

The problem was that the Conservatives made an election pledge to turn the NHS into a fully 7 day service. In itself that is a great idea but only if you fund it properly, and if you fund it properly it costs an absolute fortune. Hunt tried to do it on the cheap.

There were, of course, loads of solemn promises about not exceeding safe levels in the number of hours Junior Doctors would be required to work to cover the 7 day service. But we all know about politicians' promises and what actually happens in reality…….

After negotiations stalled Hunt decided simply to impose the new contracts and, for the first time since the 1970s, Junior Doctors decided they had to take industrial action. They did so as a last resort.

Hunt wouldn't budge and they lost.

However, it is a pyrrhic victory in that the safety valve for discontented doctors is upping sticks and taking their very valued and valuable skills to USA, Australia, Canada etc The chronic shortage of Doctors in many specialities is reflected in length of waiting lists and the immense monies being paid to Agencies providing Locum Doctors to cover vacancies.

I'd agree that PM Hunt isn't as frightening a prospect as PM Corbyn, but that's a pretty low bar of acceptability.

I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.

Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.

You forgot to mention about him asking female genital mutilation survivor Nimco Ali if she can still have Orgasms!

I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.

Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.

You forgot to mention about him asking female genital mutilation survivor Nimco Ali if she can still have Orgasms!

Nicola Sturgeon got it right.

Choosing between Hunt and Johnson is like 'asking me if I'd prefer to be run down by a lorry or a bus'.

Apparently both candidates have agreed to half hour interviews with Andrew Neil for a special programme to be broadcast on the BBC on 12 July. Neil is a fearsome interviewer. It can be painful watching him dissect a politician who tries to waffle their way through.

It's probably worth a look.

However, Conservative Party members are scheduled to receive their ballot papers by 8 July so many may already have voted by the time the interviews go out.

So, the UK ambassador to USA sends confidential telegrams giving an opinion of the US President

Apparently, these do not say anything surprising, but match much of the general commentary about the man.

The reason diplomatic telegrams are confidential is so as the diplomats can use unguarded language, which the subjects of the language would not like. The politicians can then take this as they please, but they should remain confidential.

Someone, more likely in political office than the civil service leaks them. This is more likely to be a politician than a civil servant, but I won't hold my breath on finding out. Frankly, I did not care - someone important says something that agrees with my already formed opinions.

May does the reasonable thing - she backs her civil servant, but says she does not agree with the comments (so a little appeasment to the President, but not going so far as to attack a man for doing his job properly). Johnson goes on TV and panders to the US President. The ambassador is out of the door before you can open another box of Ferrero Rocher

Kim Darroch did his job properly; that he should have to resign is disgraceful. However he had to go after Donald Trump's comments. His position was simply untenable after that. The whole affair casts Trump in a very poor light, reacting to criticism like a playground bully. That Boris Johnson didn't criticise him for doing so is outrageous.

Well I care. This is a breach of security. I used to be a security consultant on a lot of government projects. If we just shrug our shoulders over this sabotage to the way our government is run it will become all too commonplace.

A civil servant does his job but is forced to resign because his views are leaked to the press. Either a civil servant leaked for money or a politican for political benefit. The lack of support for Darroch from our likely next prime minister undermines the confidence of the civil service that they can be left to get on with their work quietly and objectively without interference.

It could be a civil servant being political. The public utterances of so many senior figures in recent years show how thoroughly politicised the CS has become. It could be a Leave supporter seeking to discredit May or, more likely given the support in the service for the EU, a Remain supporter attempting to poison the relationship between the UK and the USA. Or perhaps it was just a spiteful minion who had a personal grudge against Darroch. You are quite correct to say there should be an investigation. How thorough and revealing it might be is open to question.

For his part, Darroch had said nothing that would be unusual coming from any ambassador anywhere in the world, nor was he inaccurate in his assessment of the early days of the Trump administration. Trump was Trump, of course – usually, ambassadors who offend their hosts are told quietly and discreetly to clear off home.

You're right that there are many of possible combinations of who leaked and their reasons. I heard tonight the view that May should immediately appoint him to the Lords as a sign to the civil service that he (and they in the future) are not to be thrown to the dogs.

It could be a civil servant being political. The public utterances of so many senior figures in recent years show how thoroughly politicised the CS has become. It could be a Leave supporter seeking to discredit May or, more likely given the support in the service for the EU, a Remain supporter attempting to poison the relationship between the UK and the USA.

Diplomats should do nothing of the sort. Their communications with their own Government should be utterly unambiguous to avoid any misunderstandings. Consequently it is imperative that these communications should remain private. 'Diplomatic Language' should be reserved for public utterances.

Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....

Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!

The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.

I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!

Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....

Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!

The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.

I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!

Boris is of course an American. Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson was born in New York and holds American and British citizenship. He will be ideal as Trump's pet poodle.

Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....

Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!

The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.

I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!

This really isn't about Trump

It's about a British diplomat engaging in petty name-calling instead of being a facilitator. As I said earlier, he should have focussed on substance , pragmatism and professionalism , instead he got embroiled in the liberal lefty fondness for condescending and patronising judgementalism. They never learn do they?

Despite losing election after election and alienating millions of good, honest, decent people they just can't get down off their self appointed positions of moral superiority.

I think it is right he resigned. He was quite demonstrably the wrong man for the job!

Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....

Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!

The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.

I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!

This really isn't about Trump

It's about a British diplomat engaging in petty name-calling instead of being a facilitator. As I said earlier, he should have focussed on substance , pragmatism and professionalism , instead he got embroiled in the liberal lefty fondness for condescending and patronising judgementalism. They never learn do they?

Despite losing election after election and alienating millions of good, honest, decent people they just can't get down off their self appointed positions of moral superiority.

I think it is right he resigned. He was quite demonstrably the wrong man for the job!

f

You clearly have no understanding of the role of an ambassador. No surprise though.

Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....

Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!

The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.

I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!

This really isn't about Trump

It's about a British diplomat engaging in petty name-calling instead of being a facilitator. As I said earlier, he should have focussed on substance , pragmatism and professionalism , instead he got embroiled in the liberal lefty fondness for condescending and patronising judgementalism. They never learn do they?

Despite losing election after election and alienating millions of good, honest, decent people they just can't get down off their self appointed positions of moral superiority.

I think it is right he resigned. He was quite demonstrably the wrong man for the job!

f

You clearly have no understanding of the role of an ambassador. No surprise though.

Clearly I do and clearly you have proven the statement in my 2nd paragraph. .

Choosing between Hunt and Johnson is like 'asking me if I'd prefer to be run down by a lorry or a bus'.

Despite his many glaring character faults and lousy performance as Foreign Secretary, Johnson appears to be set to become PM this week.

I'd have thought it likely that he'd be a worse PM than most of his predecessors but he's going to have to work hard at being awful if he's to approach the uselessness of the present incumbent.

To agree to the seizing of an Iranian oil tanker off Gibraltar without ensuring that the Royal Navy was deployed in sufficient strength in the Gulf to prevent the Iranians reciprocating in kind, was utterly moronic.

Not really replying to anyone in particular : just tagging onto jon b's post as the next in line.

The 'next PM' question can surely be considered dispassionately on the grounds of the historical record. Unlike financial investments, past performance is a guide to future prospects.

So, if you employ Pep as your footy manager, you're going to get a passing and possession team. If you ask Big Sam, you'll get something more direct.

Equally with PMs.

It was clear from her impotent hectoring during tenure at the Home Office that Mrs May wasn't up to the job.

So, should Mr. Hunt get the job, he'll be someone who has alienated a workforce he controlled at Health. He'll be someone who pursues policies of transferring tax payer money to private corporations - as again he did at the NHS - and who is comfortable with wealth accruing to private individuals and companies through property holding.

If Mr. Johnson gets the job, he'll be someone who, during his time as London Mayor saw the city rise to become the world's money-laundering centre, caused a new design of bus to be made that is widely disliked - but brought in design fees from the taxpayer for his mates, a trick repeated in the Garden Bridge fiasco.

Both candidates espouse the idea that the way to prosperity is via tax cuts and that public services can run efficiently on ever-decreasing budgets.

Neither candidate therefore seems an attractive option

But before I'm tediously accused of liberal loony lefty sandal-wearing beardy lentil-munching tendencies, there is one positive about the candidatures of both Hunt and Johnson. They will prevent the scandalously incompetent incumbent leader of what is laughingly termed Her Majesty's Opposition getting anywhere near power.

Those who, in England, purport to represent us have never been more deserving of contempt.

Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

The Tories don't have a majority.

They have a majority if you include the DUP

They have a majority if you include any number of other parties, including Labour. The DUP keep voting against the Government. The Tories don't have a majority.

Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

The Tories don't have a majority.

They have a majority if you include the DUP

They have a majority if you include any number of other parties, including Labour. The DUP keep voting against the Government. The Tories don't have a majority.

I think Boris will be itching to call a General Election, so a defeat in Brecon might speed that along.

Always assuming parliament votes for a General Election of course.

Yes, I suspect you're right 007.

Labour seem currently beset by problems over Brexit splits, entrenched anti-semitism and an unelectable Leader.

Trouble is, pretty much the same factors prompted May to call a General Election and it went horribly wrong for her. Johnson's a better election campaigner but GEs can throw up surprises.

However, if he can somehow achieve some sort of Brexit, whether Deal or No Deal, and then calls a General Election to validate it, I think he would have shot the Brexit Party fox and have a relatively united party behind him ready to do severe damage to a Jezza led Labour.

I don't think the Fixed Term Parliament rules would get in the way as MPs generally don't want to be seen as frightened to face the electorate. Labour, of course, have been making a big show of wanting a General Election, even though in reality they'd be terrified of one. .

Those who, in England, purport to represent us have never been more deserving of contempt.

In the midst of all the doom and gloom I hope everyone's suitably grateful to the Lib Dems for providing a comedy moment.

Flushed with the adrenalin of a successful leadership election campaign Jo Swinson in her acceptance speech this afternoon told the party that:

“I stand before you today, not as just as the leader of the Liberal Democrats, but as a candidate for Prime Minister. There is no limit to my ambition for our party and for our movement. I am ready to take our party into a general election and win it.”

Shades of David Steel in 1981 telling the party activists to go back to their constituencies and prepare for government. In the subsequent 1983 General Election it turned out that you needed a few more than the 23 Liberal/SDP Alliance MPs elected to take over at No.10.

From memory the 1983 General Election also saw a more personal comedy moment, when I put up a poster in a window for one party and my wife put a poster in another window for a different party. They weren't in alliance. Hopefully, we got the odd smile from passers-by.

Just as a matter of historical fact, the Lib/SDP alliance got a greater share of votes, and more seats in 1983 than UKIP has ever done in any general election. (Read the caveats carefully true believers before you hit the keyboard)

Yet the performance of one party - with a defined range of policies and a series of experienced and able politicians - is seen as an almost- laughable historical quirk whilst that of the other, involving a party with just one policy and, at most, one leader of any stature, has changed the face of the nation entirely.

Funny old world.

(and no, I'm not a LibDem : my contempt for the current crop of politicians in England is comprehensive and complete)

We are now the laughing stock of the World, our standing has hit rock bottom. The rich will get rich the poor will get poorer. I feel for those who voted remain and are not affluent, those who voted leave and are not affluent tough you voted for it, see what you've done. So many mislead souls will suffer for years. The right wing rich have won the day, they don't actually care about what the leave vote was, wake up they had an agenda and it will now be implemented.

Politics is a mess, Labour is not the answer. The EU is far, far from perfect and needs reform, but iit s Nirvana compared with the alternative.

We are now the laughing stock of the World, our standing has hit rock bottom. The rich will get rich the poor will get poorer. I feel for those who voted remain and are not affluent, those who voted leave and are not affluent tough you voted for it, see what you've done. So many mislead souls will suffer for years. The right wing rich have won the day, they don't actually care about what the leave vote was, wake up they had an agenda and it will now be implemented.

Politics is a mess, Labour is not the answer. The EU is far, far from perfect and needs reform, but iit s Nirvana compared with the alternative.

Calm down, calm down!

Shall we give the man a chance? He’s not actually Prime Minister yet.

I expect he’ll make a pigs ear of things, but you never know. Let’s not forget, Londoners Elected the bloke twice and that’s not come crashing down.

If he delivers Brexit on the 31st October as planned I’ll Be (pleasantly) astonished, but stranger things have happened.

We are now the laughing stock of the World, our standing has hit rock bottom. The rich will get rich the poor will get poorer. I feel for those who voted remain and are not affluent, those who voted leave and are not affluent tough you voted for it, see what you've done. So many mislead souls will suffer for years. The right wing rich have won the day, they don't actually care about what the leave vote was, wake up they had an agenda and it will now be implemented.

Politics is a mess, Labour is not the answer. The EU is far, far from perfect and needs reform, but iit s Nirvana compared with the alternative.

Given our new PM, I don’t think we’ve yet hit rock bottom. Give it a few weeks.

God help us if he and side kick McDonnell ever get the opportunity to hold the reigns of power. And I say that as a non religious person !!

Why? What do you think they will do?

When recently interviewed McDonnell didn't deny the Centre for Policy Studies report that it would cost £176bn to carry out his renationaisation plans. Under his plans Labour would offer £20bn to water industry shareholders, which is less than its current £44bn market value. This is no more or less than state theft.

McDonnell then went on to say that financiers at GoldmanSachs and Scroders who have been earmarked to handle the transfers of assets, were on board. Well they would be wouldnt they as they stand to make millions from such transactions. He hasn't bothered to speak with the leaders of either the water or power companies who face renationaisation.

I could cite other economic nonsense that the Chancellor in waiting is spouting, but would only add that he wishes to see the overthrow of capitalism that would see this nation reduced to the status of a basket case that Venenzuela currently is.

Thatcher sold the utilities on the cheap. Thousands of people made absolute fortunes out of the state owned sell off in the 80’s. They sold almost all the council house stock & left struggling people with the expensive private sector. Would buying it back on the cheap be theft? These utilities are making millions out of all of us.

Thatcher sold the utilities on the cheap. Thousands of people made absolute fortunes out of the state owned sell off in the 80’s. They sold almost all the council house stock & left struggling people with the expensive private sector. Would buying it back on the cheap be theft? These utilities are making millions out of all of us.

They were sold off at market value at the time.

The beneficiaries were all of us in that our pensions benefitted from their rise in value as a result of the massive investment they subsequently received. Investment that the Treasury had starved them of for decades. Therein lies the problem with nationalisation.

I am not ideologically opposed to certain industries being returned to public ownership ( railways for example ) and being run as a public service.

However only at market value, otherwise it is theft and will have devastating effects throughout the whole economy as private investment will not be forthcoming.

The basic problem with Corbyns and McDonnells economic plans is that they bring short term benefits to the consumer but as has been shown where such experiments have been undertaken, long term decline of the industries in question.

Such economic thinking has never worked and McDonnells pledge to destroy capitalism will leave us all worse off.

Stronger and more efficient regulation of core utilities is the way forward IMO, not ideological fantasies.

The collapse of the banking system showed the capitalism isn’t anywhere near perfect. A no deal Brexit could lead us into a massive recession. So Boris will have to be the best PM of this generation, to survive & lead the Tories onto victory at the next General Election. All those that know him, think he’s going to fall way short of what is required. This tiny majority(with the DUP) might fall if he tries to go for a no deal Brexit. I personally would like to see David Miliband swoop in & save the Labour Party & the country.

All the Thatcher-era prviatisations were at WAY below market value, hence the immediate rise in share price in the 24 hours after open trading began.

It was James Callaghan that began the privatisation of state assets in 1977 when his administration sold off some 17% of BP. This sale helped stave off the nations bankruptcy and preceeded the IMF bailout.

It wasn't until 1984 that Thatcher, faced with a similar catastrophic public debt burden after the 1980/81 recession, rolled out British Telecom to be sold off. As I recall the public offer was oversubscribed by a factor of 10 which caused the share price rise.

Bringing any public asset to the market is always fraught with problems as establishing its opening value is determined by market conditions as no track record exists.

I would concede the point however with regard to Qinetiq which was subject to a private equity sale prior to its public flotation; but that was well after the Thatcher era.

However this in no way gives the government carte Blanche to effectively seize assets and compensate at less than half of their true value. That is theft and driven by nothing more than ideology and envy.

Which is why Corbyn and McDonnell and their entourage present a real danger to the nations economic health. Public utilities today, private personal assets tomorrow

Their strategy this morning seems to be one of overkill on the new appointments with an underlying sense of bemusement at the scale of changes and an exagerated focus on the mechanics of the nature of the appointments and an overuse of hyperbole with the use of words such as 'dramatic' and 'radical' when he's done exactly as expected.

Charlie State has made several references to the 'Cult of Boris' and the 'personality of Boris' so the tactic from the BBC might be to disassociate the Boris Johnson Govt from the country as a whole ...........We'll see !

The more they lurch to the left, with ridiculous out-dated policies, the more the Tories can move to the right. Just look at the people sat around the cabinet table this morning.

And they open a great big void in the middle.

Latest poll (post Johnson winning the Tory election)

Tories + Brexit + DUP c43% Lab + LD + Green + SNP + PC c56%

The problem is that 43% will be enough for a massive majority for the far right if the Brexit Party don't stand against Tory Brexiteers. The only way to defeat them is co-operation between the other parties. That will never happen while Jeremy Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party as he doesn't do compromise.

Yes, it looks like the Tories are anxious to go for a General Election that pitches Johnson v Corbyn.

The massed glum faces of Labour MPs sat behind Jezza and his fifth rate shadow cabinet (other than Keir Starmer) as the new PM ran rings round the Leader of HM Opposition in the HofC last week, shows that they're well aware of the danger.

The overwhelming majority of Labour MPs would ditch Corbyn without a moment's hesitation, unfortunately for them a majority of the membership still back him, so they're stuck.

However, if he stood aside for McDonnell it wouldn't be as dicey for Labour as once was the case, as it would be difficult for the Tories to accuse McDonnell of looking for a "magic money tree", seeing how Johnson seems to have discovered an orchard of such trees and is busy shaking them.

Corbyn is out and about in Liverpool trying ( and failing) to engender the same sort of 'Can Do' spirit.

Comes across like the weedy, boring Geography teacher at school we all used to take the piss out of.

Johnson is like the bullish Sports teacher we all had a laugh with and all wanted to play for!

I suspect your sports teacher would make a better PM. Positivity on it's own is worthless. Boris needs a cunning plan and he probably doesn't have one. We already seem to have some disagreement in the cabinet. Bojo says that No deal is 'a remote possibility' whilst his old friend Gove regards it as inevitable.

Corbyn is out and about in Liverpool trying ( and failing) to engender the same sort of 'Can Do' spirit.

Comes across like the weedy, boring Geography teacher at school we all used to take the piss out of.

Johnson is like the bullish Sports teacher we all had a laugh with and all wanted to play for!

I suspect your sports teacher would make a better PM. Positivity on it's own is worthless. Boris needs a cunning plan and he probably doesn't have one. We already seem to have some disagreement in the cabinet. Bojo says that No deal is 'a remote possibility' whilst his old friend Gove regards it as inevitable.

Well I , for one, am pleased that our Gov't are finally acting pragmatically and preparing seriously for No Deal.

The odds of a No Deal have shortened dramatically over the past couple of months and it is right the Gov't recognises that.

And Boris Johnson becomes the first political leader to leave the official residence of Scotland's First Minister by the back door.

What a triumphant visit to North Britain.

I'm pretty sure he left Bute House through the door closest to his car, but there you go. No point in engaging with North Britain Nationalist Rent-a-Mob types anyway.......it's not like you can get any sense out of that lot.

Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked. Phoned Varadkar....box ticked

He can ignore them now and just get on with delivering Brexit because what has gone on this far had been a picnic in the park compared to the storm that's brewing. The Elitists in the media, especially the BBC and Channel4, in political opposition, in the civil service, in academia, in the press, in globalist industries and quangos and all those who benefit from the status quo etc will pull out all the stops and their will be a tsunami of lies, negativity, disingenuity, fake news and any other means available to discredit Brexit and thec17.4 million Brexit voters and to stop the will of the people.

There will be a shit storm the likes of which the world has never seen before......brace yourselves!

Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked. Phoned Varadkar....box ticked

He can ignore them now and just get on with delivering Brexit

"really clever"

Seriously? You think anyone's taken in by it? Nobody outside England that's for sure.

Picking my son up off night shift this morning we wondered how many months/years it would be before he again visited the other three members of the "awesome foursome".

It would have helped us avoid being an international laughing stock if pre Referendum someone in Brexiter Central had remembered there was a place called Ireland with a bloodily complicated past and present together with a border that's been a pretend border since 1998.

Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked. Phoned Varadkar....box ticked

He can ignore them now and just get on with delivering Brexit

"really clever"

Seriously? You think anyone's taken in by it? Nobody outside England that's for sure.

Picking my son up off night shift this morning we wondered how many months/years it would be before he again visited the other three members of the "awesome foursome".

It would have helped us avoid being an international laughing stock if pre Referendum someone in Brexiter Central had remembered there was a place called Ireland with a bloodily complicated past and present together with a border that's been a pretend border since 1998.

.

Yes ,it's the same with Sturgeon.

She was at The Border Union Show in Kelso on Saturday...........I'll not hold my breath until the next time she remembers her Borderers.

Your comments regarding Ireland are facile.

There's a solution there. It just needs Varadker to stop playing Johnny Big Bollox.

The sight of another Irish politician playing the plucky rebel persona is tedious in extremis.

He needs to approach this in the mature and pragmatic way the issue requires.

What does this mean: - clearly Boris needs a similar ‘Brexit pact’ if he goes for an election - could a Remain pact work across the country? I imagine some squabbling amongst the local parties when it comes to it. - Labour are in massive, massive trouble. With JC in charge, they are doomed.

What does this mean: - clearly Boris needs a similar ‘Brexit pact’ if he goes for an election - could a Remain pact work across the country? I imagine some squabbling amongst the local parties when it comes to it. - Labour are in massive, massive trouble. With JC in charge, they are doomed.

Exactly...........A Tory/Brexit Party pact wipes Labour off the political map for a generation . Lie Dems only have limited appeal to the electorate so aren't a major threat.

In practice it's actually two for the time being, because the Opposition figure includes Jared O'Mara (Ind, Sheffield Hallam). Mr O'Mara has mental health issues and has announced his intention to relinquish his seat, but while he remains an MP he is unlikely to take any part in proceedings.

There will be a by-election in Sheffield for which the LibDems will start favourites, and if they do win it we're down to one - but that by-election probably won't take place until November.

So when Johnson’s Government inevitably falls on a vote of No Confidence who should be the new PM of the Government of National Unity which will revoke Article 50 (or at least legislate for a confirmatory referendum)?

So when Johnson’s Government inevitably falls on a vote of No Confidence who should be the new PM of the Government of National Unity which will revoke Article 50 (or at least legislate for a confirmatory referendum)?

I think I would prefer Caroline Lucas.

Yes, very representative of the people of cloud cuckoo land so would be a great choice.

No, back in the real world, Johnson will probably win a No Confidence vote . if he doesn't he gets two weeks to sit on his hnds then he can call a GE for , say, Nov 7th?

So when Johnson’s Government inevitably falls on a vote of No Confidence who should be the new PM of the Government of National Unity which will revoke Article 50 (or at least legislate for a confirmatory referendum)?

I think I would prefer Caroline Lucas.

Yes, very representative of the people of cloud cuckoo land so would be a great choice.

No, back in the real world, Johnson will probably win a No Confidence vote . if he doesn't he gets two weeks to sit on his hnds then he can call a GE for , say, Nov 7th?

It doesn’t work like that. Following a vote of no confidence Commons has 14 days to come up with alternative Govt.

GNU is the way forward to stop No Deal which is wanted by tiny numbers in and out of Parliament.