Red Pill Roundtable: Relationships

This week’s Red Pill Roundtable is about Relationships. Each of the respective members of the Red Pill Roundtable, myself, Goldmund from goldmundunleashed.com, Kyle from thisistrouble.com and masculineprofiles.com answer a few questions on game, girls and life, each offering our respective opinions. This is a lengthy, but informative and detailed ‘think-tank’ article on the art of long-term relationships. There is gold in this article so take your time and soak it in.

Question #1: What has been your most difficult relationship with a woman and what was the outcome?

Kyle:

My first relationship, hands down. And I suspect this is the case with many guys. I was 18, hadn’t kissed a girl. She was the first girl to touch my wiener, so naturally I was enamored with her beyond any healthy point. On top of that, she was a cheerleader at my university, and I went to a big party school (San Diego State) so there was some status with that, too. We dated for a year and a half, in which I went over eight months without her getting me off. She just “wasn’t interested”. Turns out she WAS interested in a guy at work, and asked me for permission to hook up with him in order to “Rekindle our spark.” Being the pussy I was at the time, I said, “Go ahead, but I *might* not be here when you finish.”

She went over to his house and said she didn’t hook up, but in hindsight she probably did. Thankfully the relationship only lasted a few more weeks until it finally ended with a “break” that I never came back from.

MasculineProfiles:

College relationship – they rarely, if ever, work out in the long run. And if you’re both attractive, it’s nearly impossible for both sides to actually remain faithful. It doesn’t matter how good of pipe you lay or how “high value” you think you are – every attractive individual (read: men with game or sexy girls) has way too many sexy options while at university. The temptation is just too high when your neighbor throws it at you post-house party at three a.m. because she thinks she “lost her keys” and needs to wait for her boyfriend to come home – only for them to magically appear in her purse post-coital.

Anyway, it ended pretty quickly after graduation. The break wasn’t as shit as it could have been, but it wasn’t fun either. She had issues and it felt like a relief once it was over, but fuck did it hurt for a while. Even to this day a part of me thinks it could have worked out – if a few things worked out differently.

Goldmund:

When I was living on the road, I met a girl in northern Florida who I had an instant, incredibly magnetic, and powerful connection with. I had never experienced feelings like that before and was convinced she was ‘the one’. I was 25 at the time. I stopped traveling, stayed with her for a few weeks, decided that my life as a vagabond had to stop and I needed to get a ‘real job’ so I could support a life in one place with this girl. I returned to NYC, enrolled in a graduate program to get a Masters degree, and then went all the way back to Florida to live with her (I was able to get certain credits for my Masters without being on campus). The amount of money that was spent doing this seems insane to me know, but you know, I would have done anything for this girl at the time.

We were both young, temperamental artists who would get into terrific arguments that would end up with us fighting/fucking eachother violently. We both fed off of each others energy…I had a stronger vision of the world, she had more raw talent, we both wanted what the other had and this led to some pretty intense interactions. Then we would get high, reflect, and think we were drawing closer together after the fights. It was pretty fucked up, but I think we were both addicted to the emotional ups and downs.

The emotional swings with her, combined with some success (and me believing that the reason for my success was because of her), and some other powerful personal issues drove me to a manic state and I ended up losing my mind for a spell. Really losing my mind. This was a very serious episode that should have put me in a mental hospital, but instead, at the peak of the mania, I drove out to the forest, tore my clothes off, had visions of demons trying to rip my heart out, tried to kill myself, and woke up naked, covered in dirt, bloody, and terrified.

After that, I continued living with the girl because I still believed she was my soul mate, one of the schizophrenic visions that came convinced me we had to be together (mania is an incredibly real experience). She did help ground me and keep me from losing it again, but when I had to return to NYC to finish my degree, she ended up getting cold and hooked up with another guy not long after I was gone. She was honest about it, crying, still wanted to keep talking and continue our relationship but I couldn’t do it after knowing she was with someone else, and broke it off. The depression that followed after that was so severe that it left me unable to work, I ran out of money and had to go live with relatives. It took over a year to recover, I managed to complete graduate school during that time, but looking back, it was the darkest period of my life.

Christian McQueen:

I wrote about my experience with a BPD girl I was in a toxic relationship with here, but I’ve had multiple long-term relationships, although that one was the most difficult. The biggest issue wasn’t her, it was me, because I ignored obvious red flags that a player with real LTR experience would have spotted a mile away. I am glad I went through it because it made me stronger, more aware and has allowed me to empathize with men who have gone through similar experiences.

Question #2: For guys struggling with oneitis, what would be your advice for getting over the girl?

Kyle:

It’s cliche, but you need to go fuck a few girls. Once you’ve fucked a few and *think* you’re over the oneitis, go fuck a few more. At that point, a few of them will probably have fallen into a harem, so you really won’t care about the one anymore.

I also look at it this way: I would much rather spend an evening chilling and drinking with any of these guys on the Round Table as opposed to doing the same with a girl, assuming that sex WON’T happen with her. Obviously as men we all have sexual needs, but 99% of the time, your guy pals are cooler to hang out with than girls. Girls serve a different need for me – they are an addition to my life. Once your sexual needs are met, you’ll find things much easier and your head much clearer.

MasculineProfiles:

Assuming we are talking about “oneitis” after a break up…

Take a step back and just chill for a bit. Understand that men and women will cope differently. She’ll be fucking a random dude or two to “get over you” the minute you break up. While you may want to do the same, you’ll be healthier in the long run to relax. Address the emotions the break up and potential “oneitis” will bring forth.

Embrace the feelings and try to understand them – FOR A BIT (read: one week up to one month), but don’t stop hitting the gym no matter how long you need to cope. Then get back to doing what you do best. Maybe you’re about to graduate top in the class. Maybe you’re a stud athlete. Maybe your working on building a website. Just do what you do for another month or so.

Now you’ve been hitting the gym hard for at least a month and you’ve gotten your swagger back because you focused on what you love doing (outside of banging your ex). You’ll be able to go out and attract other chicks. Bang as many as you can until a sense of disgust fills your veins. Then bang as many quality women as you can. Slowly begin to develop emotional connections with the few you actually like and the thoughts of your ex will soon be far from your memory.

Goldmund:

Booze, drugs, and lots of sluts. Ha. Although those provide a band-aid, I think the only really effective and productive way to recover is to immerse yourself in to something meaningful. When I was younger, it was things like skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing, and punk rock. I put all my energy in to those things and it got my mind off my first girl.

When I was older, I immersed myself in art and nature. Learning to appreciate beauty that is outside of the female form is extremely rewarding and reminds you that feminine energy can be found in many different sources.

Christian McQueen:

Oneitis is a condition that will sneak up on a man due to his lack of options with women. A man with options who knows he can go out any night of the week, get some numbers and possibly a ONS, is not a man who easily falls for the wiles of a pretty chick. If you’re struggling with getting over a girl who has rejected you, the answer is simple, but difficult to process: she rejected YOU and here you would take her back in a second. How can that feel good? How can you have self-respect? That sharp pain you feel in your gut, or chest is your body telling you that you are fucking up on a major level. Listen to it.

As others have pointed out, you have to stay in routine and you must go meet new girls. It’s also key to not dumpster dive, but to have sex with girls equal and better in looks than your ex. That will cure you. The standard is go fuck 10 girls to get over 1, but in reality it can take much more than that sometimes. One of my exes I needed to fuck over 30 girls before I was truly over her, but in that moment when I was balls deep in this chick, I realized I was completely over my ex.

Lastly, focus on YOURSELF 100%. Nothing else matters but your mental well-being and physical health. Hit the gym, eat right, hang with supportive productive buddies. FORCE yourself to go through the motions, because all of those activities will keep you on track of being productive and getting through the hard time.

Question #3: How can a player better prepare himself for a healthy relationship in the future?

Kyle:

Firstly, a player who has truly been seasoned won’t let himself get into an unhealthy relationship. Guys like Neil Strauss and Mystery could never hope for a healthy relationship because they derived their entire self worth from what women thought of them. Then, when they got into a relationship, of course they fell apart because they needed the girls. A player can prepare himself by picking that girl out of many – i.e. actively maintaining a harem (including her). This will allow you to compare her to the rest of them and make sure she’s worthy of the commitment. She should be a part of your harem for at least three months before you start actively thinking about it, and you shouldn’t actually make that final decision until the fifth or sixth month – or later.

MasculineProfiles:

Know EXACTLY what you want and ALWAYS hold frame. Be dominant in your desire to live a life of your choosing. Only allow a girl into your life who understands how you’re going to live your life. If she tries to change anything about you or your lifestyle – drop the bitch. Even the slightest hint of attempting to change you is a HUGE red flag.

Screen for girls who are intelligent, non-whores that desire a dominant man to lead their lives. If you’re confused how to do just that, you need to bang more girls. I’m not sure who said it first, but the saying, “If you want a girlfriend, you probably need to bang 100 girls. If you want to bang 100 girls, you probably need a girlfriend” is 100% truth.

Goldmund:

Recognize that women are not the meaning of life. This entire world tries to cram that lie down everyone’s throat and it ends up fucking up the lives of so many young men. If you are under 25, you need to seek as much knowledge as possible. If you are under 30, you still need to tap in to your true nature and beliefs. After that, you might be ready for a healthy relationship.

A lot of unhealthy relationships develop because deep down the guy doesn’t know who they really are and are either punishing themselves by getting locked in to a relationship, or they are afraid to confront their true nature and figure out who they are, so they latch on to someone else to avoid seeking self-knowledge. The betas who stay in bad relationships are true cowards who are afraid to look at themselves in the mirror honestly.

And in this day and age, a many needs to be with a lot of women. I’ve been on dates/had deep conversation with 1000’s of women from dozens of different cultures, slept with 100s of them, and only ‘dated’ a select few. I can spot the high quality ones that I want to keep around and form a healthy connection with, and filter out the ones who will just provide a zesty romp in bed.

Christian McQueen:

Experience is the greatest teacher. Make a 100 notch goal and stick to it. Have mini-relationships. Learn Harem Game. You will learn more about women with a harem, then you will with just one girl. If you can juggle 3 or 4, then you will develop the skills to handle one.

Don’t jump into a relationship out of convenience or desperation. It will fail and you will resent her and yourself. Don’t accept ultimatums. If she gives you one, then walk away, else the relationship dynamic will be in her favor from day one and it will never work. The moment you need her more than she needs you, is the day she has one foot out the door and you’re royally fucked.

Question #4: Do you believe in ‘The One’? Why or why not?

Kyle:

No. Out of the billions of people on the planet, I firmly believe there is more than one girl that could make me extremely happy. Sure, ‘one’ might make me slightly more happy than another, but not enough so that I can convince myself of this fairy tale. On top of that, people change all the time. One girl will make you much happier when you’re 18 versus when you’re 23 (like I am now).

MasculineProfiles:

Nahhhhhhh – Fairytales are for faggots. However, I do believe there are women out there who will be wholly faithful to a man who can fulfill her “every” need, as long as he continues to do so. The problem is that these women are increasingly becoming rarer and rarer with each passing year. And these type of women are often putting this faithful nature on hold to focus on her “career” and other irrelevant items.

Goldmund:

That juvenile belief is so laughable and ridiculous that it proves this world is totally fucking upside-down and backwards. Most people get suckered into believing it because it tingles with their feelings, is one of the biggest themes mainstream media fixates on…because it makes money. Its also the delusional way out. If you think that there is one true love out for you and only you, you have some very misguided thinking going on and some serious entitlement.

Christian McQueen:

No. I have dated and met too many girls who all at one point could have been ‘The One’. Every girl brings something different to the table. That being said, some girls will better suit you for a period in your life, but that does not mean that you will be with them forever. Take it day by day and count nothing out.

Question #5: Is it more painful being dumped, or dumping a girl?

Kyle:

Dumping. I don’t like hurting girls that I know are into me. Unfortunately, in our lifestyle, you’ll end up having to do the dumping more so than getting dumped. On top of that, even when you get “dumped”, it will be because you’re such a cad and she can’t get you to commit, and finally gets tired of your lifestyle. What most men new to the game don’t get is just how long she will try.

I always try to remember that girls usually have an easier time getting over a relationship than men, which makes things easier for me to do it. It’s easy for them to hop on to another cock quite easily. I took a girl’s virginity last year and had to break her out of the harem barely a month later. I’m sure she was sad, but within a few months she had a new boyfriend and looks quite happy from the looks of things.

MasculineProfiles:

It’s going to hurt either way, if you actually gave a flying fuck about her.

I used to believe it’s always better to dump her than to be dumped, but I’ve actually known many men who continually second guess their decision to break up with a girl. The thoughts of possibly still having her and the deep emotional intimacy haunt them.

These men find the grass to not always be greener right off the bat and feel the need to question their reasoning in ending things with the ex. On the flip slide, most men who get dumped often feel some sense of vengefulness towards their ex. While the pain is often sharper at the beginning of the breakup, the thought of revenge and “one-upping” the ex usually fuels these men to a quicker and better recovery.

So surprisingly – I think being dumped can be better for some men. It’s more painful at the start, but it fades faster.

Dunno…never been dumped…haha. I’ve been rejected a million times and come to revel in my rejections, but all my real relationships (about 10 serious ones total), ended with me calling it off. And goddamn is that hard. Especially when the girl is very feminine. They seem so vulnerable and helpless, and will play that up big time in order to keep you around. But in the end, they all ended up just fine.

I live in the same neighborhood as my last LTR and just the other night, I ran in to her while out on a date with another chick. I explained to my date what the situation was and she said something crass like ‘well you should just get over it, we’ve all run in to someone we’ve fucked’. That sentence proved her an insensitive social retard and I told her I was going to finish my drink and leave. And thats exactly what I did. I went up to my ex and invited her and her friend out to another bar with me and they came. We had a glorious time reminiscing about all the adventures we had together, how good the sex was, how she ‘ruined’ 99% of the girls in the world because she was in the top 1%, and how I was going to find her current boyfriend and kill him.

It really was nice catching up with her, having a lot of laughs, and being reminded of a really romantic period of time in our lives. And no, we didn’t have sex, we kissed a bunch and felt eachothers bodies, but sex would have been too much.

Christian McQueen:

Interesting question with no easy answer. I will have to go with being dumped. Being rejected is no picnic for anyone because it’s a direct rejection of YOU and no one likes that. I’ve also been known to drag LTRs out for months because I didn’t want to hurt the girl emotionally, but that is foolish because it actually hurts the girl more in the long-run. Cut if off quick and clean so she can heal.

Question #6: Do ever see yourself getting married and ‘retiring’ from the player lifestyle?

Kyle:

I know I can’t keep this up my whole life. I already dislike bars and clubs at times, and I definitely won’t like them when I’m 50. I think I’d also like to have children at some point, too. Hopefully a son I can teach the tricks of the game to. I pray to God I never have a daughter. But, I’m not sure I can envision doing this until I’m nearing my forties.

MasculineProfiles:

Man, that’s a tough one.

Each and every passing year I find myself unable to spend too much time with any single female. It’s getting problematic. I’m almost at a 24-hour limit – after spending 24 hours with any single girl, I find myself craving her to leave my side. I just get annoyed being in a woman’s company for too many hours in a row.

I love women with all my heart, but I’ve found I prefer short bursts of passion to long-term compassion. I like to go to the gym, pursue athletics, talk shit with other dudes and push myself to improve my moneymaking abilities. Outside of the sex, the time I spend with women just isn’t as fulfilling as my other pursuits.

And don’t give me the “well, you’re not getting with high quality women…blah-blah-blah bullshit because my girlfriend is wholly fulfilling plus she licks my ass” spiel that some of you might try to claim. The next time you fuck your girl and roll over to zone out – what are you thinking about? I doubt it’s how awesome and interesting she is as a person. Nah, you’re thinking about how good her ass looked before you flip on SportCenter and pray to Neil Everett that you laid good enough pipe she’s not in the mood to talk about something before you pass the fuck out.

So marriage…not anytime in the near future, but down the road I’m not going to rule it out.

Goldmund:

I don’t see myself ever slowing down. My family has a history of cads going hard well in to old age and I’m on that route. The thing is, I do want to raise a boy and raise him well. I could see myself taking a break in order to do that (a father needs to be a strong influence from ages 10-18), but the family will have to accept that daddy is always going to be a wild man and need to take some retreats for adventures around the world. That wouldn’t be for at least another decade.

Christian McQueen:

I’m a player for life in some shape and form. It hits a point where fighting your nature becomes exhausting. If you’re a player and you love lots of women, you’re not going to magically wake up one day and decide one girl is enough. I’ve shot guns, jumped out of planes, flew planes, raced cars and motorcycles, got into fights where I thought I was going to die, and a myriad of other adrenaline inducing activities and nothing compares to approaching a beautiful woman and watching her melt as you spit game. The discovery of the unknown, the next girl, the most beautiful girl you’ve ever seen (for that night), is intoxicating and addicting. Even if I were to get married tomorrow, I have to have my freedom and do my thing. You have to do you.

Archives

ArchivesSearch for:

WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING

“In a nutshell, I can tell you that Christian’s the real deal and if you follow his advice, it will change your life. ” Dennis (Coaching Client)

“McQueen’s coaching has made my weekends exponentially more fun and rewarding, and on top of all that, he’s helped to sharpen my game immensely. 5 out of 5 stars, can’t recommend highly enough.” Damon (Coaching Client)

“He offers a no BS approach to learning how to attract women and improve as a man. I had a wild night out with him in LA, and I can tell you he definitely knows his stuff.” David de las Morenas (HowToBeast.com)

“Christian changed my perspective on what it meant to have game, to have a strong sense of self worth, self respect, and carry yourself as such.” Manuel (Coaching Client)

“When going out with Christian, a good time is guaranteed and he strives to improve weaknesses in your game and offers you plenty of opportunity to learn from observation and experience.” Jason (Coaching Client)

“The bounds I’ve made in game and my life in general are pretty astounding. None of it would have come to fruition without Christian.” Jared (Coaching Client)

“After being coached by Christian McQueen for 6 months, my game has shot up significantly. He’s helped me understand fashion (you’ll rarely see me without a jacket and pocket square at night) and developing confidence through many, many approaches spent hitting up Hollywood clubs, lounges and bars. Also, he was a great resource for asking questions on how to deal with women by text (a huge issue in this day and age) as well as tips on first dates and harem management. Overall, the experience was a lot of fun and any guy looking to improve his game only needs to hang with Christian for a few hours in a nightlife environment to know he’s the real deal.” - “The Chef” Jackson (Coaching Client)

"Your social magic is definitely all they said it was, and you've got the teaching skill to make it all seem very doable. I've studied social dynamics for years, and I can't think of any one year period in there in which I've had as many revelations as I had in just a few hours on Friday night. It feels like if I just practice the basics of what you showed me
I'll go straight to the next level." -Adam (Coaching Client)

"I’ll be straight to the point here. You see Christian you instantly see he has his shit together. One thing is reading a lot of material on the web, but when you see it live it’s a whole different story." -Francisco (Coaching Client)

"Christian is a cool, down to earth guy, after meeting and a couple of drinks there's a rapport and an aura of mischief that the girls can smell on you a mile off. Everything we opened hooked and we had a blast bouncing from group to group."
-Brian (Coaching Client)

"It was a real joy and extremely beneficial to see you work up close. True talent. Your techniques are very actionable and practical and they work. So you produce great content."
-Johnny (Coaching Client)

"Going out with McQueen at a young and impressionable age gave me an invaluable reference for both social frame as well as time-tested tactics to employ when approaching nightlife situations. I learned a lot of priceless information that night which usually takes a lifetime for many men to learn and I definitely look forward to applying everything I learned on a day-to-day basis. No doubt my worldview and how I approached club scenes was shaken up---for the better!"
-Shaun (Coaching Client)