Geezee wrote:But of course the revelation over who killed Joffrey - which was also delicious - meant that he really needed to live so it was no surprise to see him survive.

I'm really amazed at how good this series is. It's always been great, but to sustain this level of quality really is quite incredible.

Cersie claims she knows everything that goes on in Kings Landing, but couldn't find out who killed her own son while she was in the room?

I'm waning on this new series. They're cheapening it with the plot shortcuts: reach the dead army before they get to the wall, capture a dead guy, bring him back to Kings Landing as proof, all with time to spare. Silly plot-filler.

Geezee wrote:But of course the revelation over who killed Joffrey - which was also delicious - meant that he really needed to live so it was no surprise to see him survive.

I'm really amazed at how good this series is. It's always been great, but to sustain this level of quality really is quite incredible.

Cersie claims she knows everything that goes on in Kings Landing, but couldn't find out who killed her own son while she was in the room?

I'm waning on this new series. They're cheapening it with the plot shortcuts: reach the dead army before they get to the wall, capture a dead guy, bring him back to Kings Landing as proof, all with time to spare. Silly plot-filler.

I do agree that this latest mission seems to just be filling things out and I hope it's over quickly. Even just how the plan was agreed on with almost no discussion seemed a bit flimsy. But I've loved the interactions between Jon Snow and Danaerys, the Stark reunion and various setpieces.

Tactful Cactus wrote:Cersie claims she knows everything that goes on in Kings Landing, but couldn't find out who killed her own son while she was in the room?

She let her hatred for Tyrion guide her to him as the culprit. Sansa's fleeing and the poisonous bead coming from her jewelry were all the circumstantial evidence Cersei needed to cast her mind to the idea that it was a plot of Tyrion's to free Sansa.

Cersei had a witch's prophecy when she was young, and it included a bit they didn't focus on in the show for some reason -- so for those who haven't read the book, this bit is a spoiler...

The witch told her she would wed the king, not the prince. that she and the king would have no children together but he'd have 20 kids and she'd have 3, with gold crowns and gold shrouds. Then she told her "when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." Valonqar being high Valerian for "little brother."

Because of this prophecy -- and in no way hindered by the fact that her mother died giving birth to him and he was a misshapen dwarf -- Cersei has hated her brother Tyrion ever since.

This is just my conjecture, but the witch only said it would be the "valonquar" or little brother -- she didn't say it would be CERSEI'S little brother -- but even if she did mean Cersei's little brother, Cersei is older than Jaime by a few minutes...so BOTH her brothers could be called the Valonquar. Strangling her one handed would be a trick but he could totally manage it -- Jaime is nothing if not a man led by his own sense of honor and justice. He's killed a crazy regent once already and she's been fucking others since he came back to her one handed. She doesn't hold him in the same high regard she once did. Also since the witch said she'd have 3 kids -- the pregnancy she has now is either a lie, a false pregnancy, or she will abort, miscarry or have a stillborn child like her first child with the king.

Not Ian wrote:kickass entertainment!So, was Daenerys attacking with one dragon a compromise to Jon Snow's advice? or is she taking the Queen of Thorn's advice to ignore the advice of men and contradicting him? I'm cool either way.

I think she took his advice and attacked the army rather than burning innocents. She took one dragon because dragons need riders. At the moment only one rider is able to control them, Dany. I think it would be kick ass to have Tyrion and John on the other two.

I believe so, there's a prophecy that said she would have only 3 children, gold would be their crowns and gold their shrouds.

PENK wrote:Who's going to die north of the Wall?

I think that's anyone's guess.

My guess is this: I hope Tormund Giantsbane lives, but we can't bank on that (like you, I think he and Brienne would be great together -- but don't forget about Poderick Payne. She and Pod might wind up together...Pod's well hung and apparently acceptable in bed if the whores of Baelish's bordello are any indication. But sadly I suspect Pod will die protecting Brienne -- he loves her in the same manner she loved Renly I believe. Tormund's a lusty man after a lusty wench, but Brienne may be too refined for him. In the books she seems to come to love Jaime, but in the show, the love story of Brienne and Jaime was never going to work...so yeah Tormund should live and hook up with Brienne. I want him alive and well as lord of Tarth or King beyond the wall or something. But people have to die -- and that's a big army of the dead. He may live through this skirmish though --remember they are just on reconnaissance to find a walker to present to Cersei and to defend the eastern perimeter. There may be additional battles with all of these guys. The true epic battle with the undead may still be coming after Cersei sends her army to the wall to defend the realm against the Night King's Army. So it's 50-50 for him, but I hope he survives.

As far as the Brotherhood without Banners guys... I think that the Lord of Light saved Lord Beric Dondarrion and allowed Thoros of Myr to raise him over and over for a reason -- I suspect it was specifically so that he could defeat the Night King or perhaps save John or Gendry or Dany in some EPIC moment. That could well occur in the coming battle or it a future one. Either way, those two are the most obviously expendable here. Thoros is probably toast. He's an interesting character but they have the Red Witch to fill his role as a priest of Light outside of this battlefield so he's expendable. I don't know about the Hound, but I hope he survives. I think he will. He's one of my favorite people in the realm. I want him to survive and marry Sansa. In the books they are kind of an item. And he deserves to be happy honestly -- I love the hound. if Sansa's his bag, he should get her. She's a horrible person, but whatevs. People seem to think she will wind up with Littlefinger, but let's not forget Littlefinger engineered that marriage to Bolton knowing FULL WELL what Ramsey was....ew. Her marriage to Ramsey Bolton was not in the book. In the books he is married off to an imposter -- Jayne -- so he torments a truly innocent girl. The show made it Sansa, I think it part to try to gain her some sympathy and fans -- she's a pretty horrible and STUPID character in the books -- selfish and snobbish and vain and grasping. So when she was married to Bolton on the series I saw it as karma. The marriage to Bolton was mostly a plot device contrived to tie up several dangling bits (pun intended) but regardless, truly NO ONE deserved to be wed to him, and Baelish sent her there knowing EXACTLY what he was. Baelish is an evil sociopathic prick. If she does wind up with Petyr...I'm okay with that outcome, because frankly Sansa is horrible and so is Littlefinger. The hound should get better taste. But if she redeems herself in some way soon and doesn't just fuck Arya over and Jon over in her greedy grab for power with Baelish as seems more likely -- if she redeems herself and stays honorable and alive -- then I'd rather she be at the Aerie with cousin Robin (gag) or better -- with the Hound. He saved her many times and in the books and show they have been shown to have an affection for each other. The Hound protected Arya in part as a service to Sansa. With or without Sansa Stark though, Clegane should survive. I love him and he has to survive to kill his brother if nothing else. So I think he'll survive this.

Jon can't die. (yet) He will wed Dany I think, after this battle concludes. Jon and Dany wedding one another is the OBVIOUS way for the North to accept Dany as Queen. I think their wedding will happen though it may be tragic and short. She and Jon are both Targaryens, as Sam almost found out in the last episode but he was too busy being angry to listen to Gilly to realize. And since their lineage makes them both legitimate rulers of the kingdom they will be the logical rulers. Heirless rulers, but the logical ones. He won't die.

As far as Mormont -- Jorah can't really be around if John and Dany are to wed -- he's an impediment to the queen's relationship with Jon. If Mormont is alive it would be hard for him to see her with another man again -- He loves her utterly. She sees him as a father figure though, so maybe he will live and just be a bit miserable, but devoted.

Gendry will live. I hope so anyway. Dany and Jon may not survive to rule although they may defeat the Night King and Cersei. If they don't rule or do and die childless, the next "rightful heir" would be Gendry as Robert Baratheon's bastard child. But I want him in Winterfell. I always wanted him to wind up with Arya as her spouse and lord while she rules Winterfell...in the book and show they are friends and Gendry is the first to realize "Arry" is a girl. There was a hint of more -- love perhaps? -- between them before they parted ways. Reuniting them would be great. I love Arya, so I want her happy and ruling Winterfell rather than being a killer and dying an assasin's death. I'd like them at Winterfell because there should always be a Stark at Winterfell and Sansa hates Winterfell so she should fuck off to the Aerie with Clegane or Baelish and let Arya have it. I wouldn't mind Arya as queen to Gentry's king though, The two of them ruling the kingdom since Dany can't have any more kids and she and Jon would have no heirs would be great and Arya would make a kick ass queen. So I totally want Gendry to live. Besides someone needs to make dragon fired weapons and carve up that mountain of dragonglass and he's an armorer.

PENK wrote:What's Littlefinger up to now? Trying to turn Arya against Sansa so he can take Sansa's side?

That seems plausible, that was my husband's take. But I think Arya is far too clever and well trained as cat of the canals to be so easily spotted by him. She's trolling him I hope. Trying to see his game. Sansa seems wary of him of late, perhaps Arya is playing at ineptitude in order to lure him into action and gauge his game.

Those battle scenes were exceptional but the cause was so limp they barely acknowledged it. It doesn't ring true that Jon would risk all of those men and then scream for his girlfriend to help when it goes arse ways.

And whats going on with Arya. Is she protecting Sansa, playing mental chess with Little Finger? I'm lost there, very intriguing

I thought it was a mess. A very entertaining one but the show used to be about characters and intrigue and story development. This was frenetic and rushed and at times incomprehensible, with some plot points feeling forced.

Liked the ending though. And the power games at Winterfell are refreshingly unpredictable and many-shaded.

Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

The instant jumping from location to location is getting ridiculous at this point. This season really needed to be a 10-episode arc to develop this a bit more. To run back to the Knight's Watch, send a raven to Danaerys and her to come to the rescue - presumably that should have taken at least a week?

And actually i think it could have been quite effective to have them there stuck on a rock for quite some time instead of what seemed like 10 minutes. Very claustrophobic, taking turns sleeping etc.

Geezee wrote:And actually i think it could have been quite effective to have them there stuck on a rock for quite some time instead of what seemed like 10 minutes. Very claustrophobic, taking turns sleeping etc.

And the wights surrounded them on the lake, but all of a sudden could retreat? And Uncle Benji saving the day!?

I actually thought that Daenerys getting there quickly made sense: dragons can presumably fly pretty damn quickly. But some of the other stuff was just ridiculous: ten men facing down a whole army of wights and only losing the red-jumper guys; the Hound deciding to skim stones from the rock...

What has been bugging me for a while now is that while they are rushing people around Westeros and indeed Essos in order to manouevre different pieces into the right positions, the Night King and his army seem to have been marching around in circles for about four series now. Jon and his Dirty Dozen wandered off from Eastwatch and found them within what I assume was a day or so. This is, what, two full series since Hardhome? What are they actually up to?

Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

The Hound was trying to hit Skeletor because he was sick of looking at him. I did like how benign the skeletons reaction was even though he'd lost half his skull. And it was really cool how the head guy speared the dragon.

But yeah, it does seem like they've lost their bottle in terms of killing characters. If this was 2nd series then 2 people might have escaped those odds. No dragons then to rescue the plot day.

Favourites for the chop: Littlefinger, Jamie, BrienneAlso possibilities: Jorah, Sansa, Tyrion (I think he's lost his usefulness), Gendry, Sam, Varys, Theon, EuronNot gonna happen: Jon, Daenerys, Cersei (those three will be fighting it out until the end surely), Arya, Davos (he has an aura of safety about him), Tormund (if he was to go it would have been this week), Hound (has to meet his zombie brother first right?)

Copehead wrote:I have met Gruff Rhys - although he claimed he wasn't and that he couldn't speak Welsh, as I spoke to him in Welsh, but it was him lying bastard.

Little Finger will go, true he's the antagonist but now everyone knows he untrustworthy. He has no more currency to manipulate.I think Arya is now manipulating Sansa against LF (handing her the dagger facing out). Shes making Sansa see that LF needs to die rather than killing him herself.