Wednesday, September 30, 2015

The minute you take away from His Word, you take away from Christ.

From the outset the Free Church Moderator (pictured above) explained he was coming from an orthodox Church of Scotland belief, that Christ died on the cross to redeem sinners.

Mr Robertson drew on his childhood shortly after his own conversion in Easter Ross, where he encouraged his school friends to go to church. Those who went with their parents to a liberal church, or a church that denied parts of the Bible, are not Christians. But almost all of those who went to churches that taught the truth, across a range of denominations, were now professing faith.

In his opening address Rev Scott McKenna said the Bible was “a product of communities” and that it was “almost impossible” to get back to a historical Jesus. He added that there were many interpretations and misinterpretations of Scripture.

Mr Robertson responded by saying this was a confusing statement, because God spoke to us through His Son Jesus, which is why the Bible was given.

The Dundee minister added that the minute you take away from His Word, you take away from Christ.

The Free Church Moderator said the best way to interpret scripture is through scripture, and whilst there will be disagreements on secondary issues, there was unanimous agreement from the early Church fathers on the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments and also the full authority of God’s Word.

Topic number two was the atonement, and Mr Robertson began by saying his heart sank for Rev Scott McKenna after he denied from the pulpit that Christ died for sinners. The Free Church Moderator said the Mayfield Salisbury minister had a duty to proclaim Jesus, instead of creating a Christ without a cross.

The Dundee minister said that whilst many people nowadays would not accept this teaching, he knows many people “for whom knowing Jesus died for their sins is the greatest comfort and only assurance we have”, adding that his sole desire for the evening was for Mr McKenna to change his mind on the cross and come to see “that it can be our only hope”.

The Church of Scotland minister (pictured below) came back by saying that it was “barbaric” to present God “as a vengeful God who needs a sacrifice” before going on to present a variety of views on atonement. Mr Robertson later countered by saying it was so stupid for Jesus to go to the cross if He thought God was going to forgive everyone anyway. He added that the real Gospel was “unless you repent, you will perish” but if people trusted in Jesus for their salvation they would be saved.

Mr McKenna also said it was "scandalous" that God forgives everyone, to which Mr Robertson responded that telling the man on the street that he was just forgiven by God was not a scandal. He continued that the scandal in the eyes of the world is to say that you can’t be forgiven without the cross, so the atonement is scandalous. The Dundee minister also said that on the issue of "at-one-ment- the Bible was not originally written in English, and cited 1 John 2:2 which points out that sin prevents us being at one with God, and that the only way to get rid of sin is through the cross.

In the final section of the night, the two men discussed the future of the Church in Scotland. Mr McKenna opened by saying that though the Church lived in difficult times, it could be turned around with the right kind of leadership, citing the examples of religious leaders like the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope Francis.

He continued that there had to be “intellectual integrity”, adding that science was not to be feared and that the doctrine of the Fall had to be denied to account for "living in a universe that has evolved”.

The Mayfield Salisbury minister also said he wished to see an ethically more inclusive church, with people learning to live with their differences, as well as developing prayerfulness through meditation, contemplation and silence. He concluded by saying Christians should be secure in their own faith, but that the love of Jesus compels them to walk “side by side with people of other faiths”.

As a Scottish Calvinist, Mr Robertson gave a differing view, and that there must be a turning back to God’s word or the Church in Scotland will continue to die. He said it “broke his heart” that the vast majority of people in the country had actually never heard the Gospel before, and that churches must ensure their main priority was to tell people about Christ.

In closing, with sadness the Free Church Moderator said that, though they agree on so much, he would excommunicate Mr McKenna because only those who recognise the body and blood of the Lord are welcome to sit at the Lord’s table – and the Mayfield Salisbury minister’s denial of the cross was an obvious barrier. Mr Robertson gave an example that similarly he himself would not be allowed to take mass in the Roman Catholic Church because of his theological views.

He concluded by saying that the two men believed in two different Christs, but that he would continue to pray to the One who died for his sins on the cross at Calvary, and that he would be praying daily for Mr McKenna.

The Church of Scotland’s Principal Clerk Rev John Chalmers (pictured above), himself a former Kirk Moderator, stepped in to chair the event at the last moment. Mr Chalmers told the audience that Rev Angus Morrison, the present Church of Scotland Moderator, was unable to be present due to illness.

It is hoped a recording from the evening will be available online soon.

1 comment:

Anonymous
said...

Although he agreed to film the event, you may be interested to know that Scott McKenna has now refused to hand over the tape and in fact has deleted it - see https://theweeflea.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/the-scottgate-tapes-a-revealing-insight-into-the-current-state-of-the-church-of-scotland/

TEN YEARS OF DISCUSSION

With the advent of the internet, blog-sites and websites like that of the "Former Salvation Army Officers' Fellowship" and the now defunct "Rubicon" have provided unofficial but influ­ential opportunities for free discussion. An officially-sponsored discussion forum on the IHQ website seemed to attract limited participation however.

THE RUSSIAN SA CREST 1913

Cross and Cultural sensitivity in early SA entry to Russia

Translate

Commissioner Joe Noland

Commissioner Joe Noland

As a retired Salvation Army officer, in some ways I feel like a former officer. And as a retired Commissioner, I probably get more respect than others, but believe me there are lots of similarities between “ former” and “sent out to pasture”. I'll not bore you with the parallels, except to say that since being “pasteurized” my understanding and empathy has increased greatly.

This said to plug a blog site for former Salvation Army officers, www.fsaof.blogspot.com. I drop in periodically because the well-written posts and discussion following helps me keep everything in perspective. I would recommend the same for every not yet yet pasteurized leader because your day is coming soon considering the age at which most top leaders are appointed, but more importantly because the insight gained there will provide proper balance to your personnel related decision making during the interim.

Thank you!

A blessing every day - OWL said... Your Advent season posts by Elizabeth and Howard are a special gift that words can't describe nor can I express enough thanks. They brought a new appreciation of God's intended plan for me and all men. And thank you to you too John, our resident Pastor. There is no Salvation Army site anywhere that so completely shares the Christmas narrative. God bless you all, Former SA Missionary 25 December, 2014

The Salvation Army must not become so much of a middle-class movement that it forgets 'the rock whence it is hewn'. It is called to proclaim salvation to all classes, but its special glory should be its concern for and its ability to appeal to the lowest and most forgotten, and to be their champion in every respect.

Followers

UPDATE! 62% of the FSAOF blog visitors rate it as their #1 site for SA content and relevance!

Why do many Salvation Army officers, when they resign, no longer persist in “proclaiming the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ”, ...

SA TODAY

WE NEED OFFICERS

Officers are not better than anybody else – we need to be clear about that. Officership by its nature is about availability and mobility. In a worldwide Salvation Army we need people who are prepared to serve anywhere and be of service to the cause of Christ, with all their gifts. We need people who are available. So the more officers the better! We need officers who see this not as a profession in a secular sense but as sacrificial service. General Lina Bond: "Officership needs to underscore sacrifice."

WELCOME!

Each week about ten thousand visitors will read this blog; 1,600,000 to date. Most of the articles are written by former SA officers. We pray that those who pause and visit this site may in some small way be challenged, comforted, and moved to reflect beyond the worldly norm. The blog serves too to inform friends and family of what we 'formers' are thinking and doing as we serve in our current chosen and assigned vocational settings.

From LONDON; ACTIVE OFFICER

Just wanted to write and say thanks for your efforts for former Salvation Army officers. Looking down the list of members on the blog I realise that there are many familiar faces and names. At the end of the day, many people are listed, who I still love and respect and who shouldn't have been put in a position where they have become former SA Officers. Anything which can harness the positive contribution they can bring and bring some care and support in what is often a very challenging decision, can only be applauded. Well done for doing this.CO UKT

There was an error in this gadget

INTERNATIONAL HEADQUARTERS LONDON, ENGLAND

I read your blog pages with great interest, which are the most meaningful SA pages on the Internet, with a substance that far outpaces even our own official SA websites. I'm particularly impressed that you are factual and accurate in your observations, especially due your transparency; not opinionated in any particular direction. You gain and win credibility as a result. IHQ

DISCLAIMER

Whilst we endeavour to ensure that the information on this website is correct, we do not warrant its completeness or accuracy; nor do we commit to ensuring that the website remains available or that the material on the website is kept up to date.

To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, we exclude all representations, warranties and conditions relating to this website and the use of this website (including, without limitation, any warranties implied by law in respect of satisfactory quality, fitness for purpose and/or the use of reasonable care and skill).

Nothing in this disclaimer will:(a) limit or exclude our or your liability for death or personal injury resulting from negligence; (b) limit or exclude our or your liability for fraud or fraudulent misrepresentation; (c)limit any of our or your liabilities in any way that is not permitted under applicable law; or (d) exclude any of our or your liabilities that may not be excluded under applicable law.