by Microelite7711 on Fri May 28, 2010 1:05 am ([msg=39191]see The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

K, I'm not trying to diss a minority or raise anyone's roof, but here is my proof of a Christian God being false. Why Christian? It's popular, I know most about it, they've provided me with a flaw that doesn't agree with reality. Please know, I'm most certainly not trying to offend ANYONE. I'd believe in God if it were more plausible the science. Thanks for keeping this in mind.

First, the claim of there being a Christian God, it's a truthful claim, either true or false. Not both. Now, we asses the rationality of the Christian God being true or false by determining if it agrees with reality. Now, we can dissect the rationality of the Christian God as the Christian faith has provided us with a criteria that defines their God. This criteria is the key my friend.

A quick note: We all know what reality is, don't give me BS on how, "How do we know what reality is?". You know exactly what it is as we all know that there is wind, we know that we live on a planet called earth, you know Family Guy is a cartoon that comes on or has been on TV somewhere in the world. Don't be a moron. Philosophy is not about that stereotypical way of thinking you may think is correct. It is the study of everything, down more greater then to a science. Philosophy is the love of wisdom. If you can't comprehend reality, please just leave as this is what is at the core of understanding this.

Ok, let's go over one single criteria of the Christian God that disproves the entity: Perfection. Now let's dissect the claim that the Christian God is perfect. Another truth claim with a valid attribute, that will allow to successfully determine weather the existence of a Christian God is true or false. Now, let's define perfect. It's a state of completeness without blemish, error, or any kind of negative attribute according to it's certain, should I say, context. The Christian God is all knowing, all powerful, incomprehensible, omnipresent, all everything. He is pure perfectness. Ok, so that was easy so far right? Well if it is, then you shouldn't have a problem with the rest.

Now that we've built up this list of what the Christian God is, as per the Bible (sources on bottom), all we have to do is spot the flaw in anything about the Christian God's attributes and BAM, we have the disagreement with reality and therefor making the Christian God false. Pow! Right in the kissa!

Ok, the flaw that we may all point out is the perfectness of the Christian God in the context of the said entity being purely perfect. If the Christian God was perfect in all ways then everything it would do will all ready have been done. He wouldn't be listening to us as it would of already been done. He wouldn't of "started" the universe as it would of already been done. Since everything has already been done then we wouldn't be here. In the belief of the Christian God, the God is factually taken and know to be perfect. We know (I hope) that no entity can be perfect anywhere as if anything was absolutely perfect then everything would be in a constant and unchangeable state as it wouldn't change as it's perfect. I hope you understand how the Christian God can't be true as nothing can be perfect. I can elaborate more on how it can't be possible for the Christian God to be real if he is absolutely perfect, but I hope if your this far then you can understand the reasoning.

How do we know the Christian God (if real) is perfect? Because the Bible, which is the accurate (even though changed [Old Testament vs New Testament]) wording of God for Jesus himself.

Once again, please don't get mad, I'm not trying to offend anyone. Also, once again, I know I probably made mistakes so point them out or not, I don't care as I'll point them out my self in a week or so.

Now, I am seriously tired so I'm sure I've made some grammatical errors, even logical flaws, but I feel as I am correct and I'll proof read and revise my writings within the week (when I get free time). Please feel free to critique and share your opinions, good night everyone...

(I'll add more sources when I revise. Too tired.) Matt 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." more precisely, "your Father which is in heaven is perfect".

by nasalin on Mon May 31, 2010 1:49 am ([msg=39325]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

Well i believe you are right. But i believe that we as a species are not able to determined where we are from. I can only wish there is a god and that everything happens for a reason but i can't seem to find the evidence as you have said. I mean we could all just be part of a virtual reality program being played out by a demented 13 year old boy. He takes his stress out on us because he hasn't learned how to relieve stress any "other way" and if you think farther that 13 year old boy could be another 13 year old boys virtual reality and so on and so forth. We could all be a molecule of a plant just drifting in the breeze. These things are all possibility's but again they have no prof. So what are we going to do. Well i say we just don't care. No one has ever converted because they lost the argument. So what to do what to do what to do. Oh cool a pop tart.

by Vulpine on Mon May 31, 2010 3:39 am ([msg=39328]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

I hate to take the theist's stance on this one, but God is also supposed to have a plan. A supreme and perfect being of his stature could easily have orchestrated history to play out precisely as it has in order to achieve some particular goal or purpose. Akin to raising a child, you don't hand them a perfect life if you want them to grow into a self-sufficient and successful adult.

Realistically though, we can't prove or disprove the existence of God because there is absolutely no evidence one way or the other. A lack of evidence does not prove a negative.

by axispowers on Mon May 31, 2010 8:46 am ([msg=39334]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

I believe God is perfect, sinless, therefore:@106627bg: Jesus--God in human form, therefore, also perfect, sinless--hand-picked every one of the men who recorded the New Testament. Every one of these guys, with the exception of Paul, spent every waking moment with Jesus after He called them. (Note: Paul had different qualifications that made him a perfect pick for his ministry, and Jesus hand-picked Paul on the road to Damascus.) All-knowing Jesus knew what every single one of the apostles would write to the church. That is proof enough that what they wrote is legitimate.

Additionally, the argument that translation over the ages changed the meaning of the New Testament has been proven false after they found the Dead Sea Scrolls.

As for the whole...Old Testament v. New Testament "change" how-ya-doin'...there is a massive difference between the two testaments, and they can not be compared. They are two completely different covenants. But if you look at them carefully, the Old Testament points to all the events that took place in the New Testament--basically, the coming of Jesus Christ.

The question posed, "how can we know God is perfect?" can be answered with a little more logic, I suppose. God, via an angel, told Mary and Joseph that Jesus would be born to "save His people from their sins" (Matt 1:21). In order to save anyone from sin, Jesus would have to be sinless--how else could someone save someone else from something if they can not even save themselves?! Therefore, as Paul states in 2 Cor 5:21, "He" (that is God) "made Him" (that is Jesus) "who knew no sin to be sin for us..." (meaning: Jesus never did anything wrong, but he died for our sins so that we could be reconciled to God).So if Jesus was sinless, and Jesus is God, God is sinless. Sinless equates to perfection.

Of course you would argue that nothing can be perfect (including God)...because we couldn't be perfect to save our lives...literally...(bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!)...that and we have never seen someone perfect. We kind of just have to have faith in the eye-witness accounts of the apostles... But FAITH is a hard thing to have...and it seems to be lost on a lot of folks these days...

by thetan on Mon May 31, 2010 11:22 am ([msg=39340]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

axispowers wrote:So if Jesus was sinless, and Jesus is God, God is sinless. Sinless equates to perfection.

I beg to differ. Sinless is not perfection. Sinless is boring.

Quoting the bible doesn't make you correct. It just makes you look like a complete tool.

As i've said in other posts here. I'm more apt to believe that were the slave creations of Aliens (anunaki) for the purpose of harvesting gold for them while they were here on earth briefly in "the cradle of civilization". Yet this is complete trollery to me and still makes me laugh just as much as all this theistic crap. It still does remain the more viable of the two imo.

"If art interprets our dreams, the computer executes them in the guise of programs!" - SICP

“If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it” - Albert Einstein

by 106627bg on Mon May 31, 2010 6:40 pm ([msg=39355]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

@axispowers - I wasn't trying to make a point with that. That's just the usual response I get from arguing with theist.

My favorite counter-argument that I've heard though has to be that God/Jesus purposely created evidence against himself to "test" believers dedication. Evidence meaning contradictions in the bible, fossil records etc.

by Vulpine on Mon May 31, 2010 7:07 pm ([msg=39358]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

106627bg wrote:My favorite counter-argument that I've heard though has to be that God/Jesus purposely created evidence against himself to "test" believers dedication. Evidence meaning contradictions in the bible, fossil records etc.

Reminds me of...

Robert A. Heinlein wrote:God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent---it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.

by Goatboy on Mon May 31, 2010 7:45 pm ([msg=39359]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

There are so many things wrong here that I literally could not decide where to begin. So I put each on a line of a text file, whipped up a quick Perl script to order them, and I shall begin thusly (not really):

@Microelite: Your whole argument hinges on the assumption that "If the Christian God was perfect in all ways then everything it would do will all ready have been done." There is not even a grain of truth in this statement. Perfection does not mean you have already carried out all your plans. Divine being or not, that makes no sense. Where did you get this notion? Besides, at some point in the future, God (if he does in fact exist) will have carried out all of his plans. So your argument is doubly wrong.

@<randomstringofnumbers>bg: Those kinds of counter-arguments are not very impressive. Not only do they fail to resolve the issue of mistranslations, contradictions, etc., but they also make God look powerless, as he could have just proof-read the damn thing before basing a religion off it.

@axispowers: Hand-picked on the road to Damascus? Sounds more like Paul was just chillin' and Jesus said "Yea, you'll do. Come with me." And Paul was all like "Hellz naw!" And Jesus be all up in his grill like "Do it or so help me God - lol - I will make you." But really, if Jesus really did know what every apostle would write, that's kinda like putting your family and best friends on a resumé. I could go in depth with some other points (Sinless = perfection, faith, logic) but I think you get the point.

@thetan: I agree with you on the quoting thing. Now if someone could actually intelligently interpret a given quote, they'd be worth their weight in rupees. And lulz about the aliens.

BTW, I am an Agnostic Atheist. I don't believe in a god, but I am also not arrogant enough to say I know there is not one. Yea, it may seem like I was defending the notion of God in the first part, but I was just shooting down your flawed logic.

by Pythous on Mon May 31, 2010 9:13 pm ([msg=39362]see Re: The "proof" of the Christian God being fake[/msg])

Well put Goatboy, I agree with your stance on most of the topics here and I think of myself as an agnostic athiest too. And hey Nasalin, I advise that you don't post to the hts forums when you're stoned.

We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves. The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.This is not the algorithm. This is close.