due to the gem slots it looks like using the tier chest (3 sockets) over the lei shen chest (2 sockets) then using the iceshatter gauntlets (2 sockets) over the tier gloves (1 socket) is BiS for normal versus the above list

anyone else seeing similar? or are the sockets incorrect in the PTR build for these slots?

The lack of spirit on the chest piece makes it the least attractive. Although, it has 3 sockets and you gem for straight spirit, you'll make up for it. Off tier chest has 2 blue sockets and a 120 int bonus. If the tier chest had better stats (mastery/haste) then I would see maybe taking off tier gloves and tier chest. Maybe I'm wrong though :P haven't been able to do much testing.

The new fights are quite mana intensive regardless of 10 or 25 man so the extra spirit is necessary. Using the other gems is merely to fulfill socket requirements. Apart from the helm socket bonus and the ones which give 120 spirit, there's little reason to socket anything other than spirit for socket bonus.

Since Thunderforged Heroic gear is available for all non-tier, I would say a Thunderforged Refreshing Abalone Girdle (Tortos), and Ice-Scored Treads (Megaera) would be BIS. Everything else looks fine though, the trinkets might be more debatable. If Jer'thud is only a normal mode drop, then BiS would be 541 Torall off of Lei Shen.

The new fights are quite mana intensive regardless of 10 or 25 man so the extra spirit is necessary. Using the other gems is merely to fulfill socket requirements. Apart from the helm socket bonus and the ones which give 120 spirit, there's little reason to socket anything other than spirit for socket bonus.

All straight spirit gems. Even in the belt, which only would have required one off-gem, foregoes a 120 spirit bonus.

I just don't know what I should be doing now. That's why I'm asking for help/opinions.

Unless it's a re-roll, that's an alt (they are rank 7, their shaman is rank 5 in the guild and looks like the gearing has had substantially more effort put into it). Perhaps he's just being lazy, because I can't really see forgoing 80 int for 40 spirit. At the end of there's no real absolute answer, just that spirit and mastery are good stats.

I'm not blindly copying. If I was, I would have done it already and wouldn't have come here asking for an explanation as to why, and some guidance as to which is better. So I can figure out what I'm doing myself. That's kinda the point. The answer to "Help me figure out what I'm doing" is not "You need to know what you're doing."

I can't speak for what is going through the player's head who you linked, but I do know that I tend to be lazy with alts and gearing them. Especially if it's a mad's rush preparing my main for heroics and researching fights/strategies.

I'll wager that for his alt, instead of making a list of what gems are needed and searching each type out and making/purchasing it, probably just mailed himself/bought a ton of cheap sparkling gems and threw them in his gear.

I can't speak for what is going through the player's head who you linked, but I do know that I tend to be lazy with alts and gearing them. Especially if it's a mad's rush preparing my main for heroics and researching fights/strategies.

I'll wager that for his alt, instead of making a list of what gems are needed and searching each type out and making/purchasing it, probably just mailed himself/bought a ton of cheap sparkling gems and threw them in his gear.

If it was just a random nickel and dime alt, I would agree with you. For Exodus, who likely expect that alts in the run to be as min maxxed as their mains are, so that their run can clear 12/12 when most guilds of mains can't even get that far, I would seriously doubt it.

Pretty simple answer - it's a really close tradeoff that could go either way. The phrase "Spirit is king" could easily apply which pretty much says you are nearly unwilling to sacrifice additional spirit for any other stat. So if the tradeoff was 60 spirit for 200 mastery, you take the spirit. If the tradeoff is 60 spirit for 120 Intellect, you take the 60 spirit.

I'm not going to defend it, because I disagree with it (my examples/numbers are a bit exaggerated), but he does *undoubtedly* have the most spirit he possibly can =)

Everybody has their stat weights, or what they're willing to trade of one stat for another stat. For gemming, secondaries are usually preferred since they get double the budget, so it would take a pretty strong set bonus to go purified, but there are cases where it's worth it imo. Going zen is a bit easier choice since you're basically just trading a little spirit for mastery =p

I am currently socketing spirits into blues and keeping up with the socket colour if the bonus is above a certain threshold (60+int/120+spirit)
If it would be mastery or haste as a socket bonus, go for pure spirit (imo) for greater regen.

If it was just a random nickel and dime alt, I would agree with you. For Exodus, who likely expect that alts in the run to be as min maxxed as their mains are, so that their run can clear 12/12 when most guilds of mains can't even get that far, I would seriously doubt it.

You massively overestimate the requirements of a guild like that

Yes they require their alts have effort put into them, and I'm sure they probably have say Mr hunter with a Holydin alt talk to the MS Holydin to make sure his alt is optimised to the point of being able to do his job, but in this case I can fully understand not doing such fine calculations on something which isn't important. Lets face it at the end of all this he's lost 150ish healing if he's very lucky per spell, in return gaining the ability to cast more spells which we can all agree is the trade off we'd all make, based on just the principals outlined, I'm sure.

Also to make a point, the majority of what makes them as a guild able to clear 12/12 while other people's mains are struggling around the middle of the raid, is based on their mindset/mentality and experience, they are just simply put, better raiders than you, it has very little to do with them min/maxing every single stat they have. If you ever meet the guys that make these guilds tick, you'd realise that the only difference is for them wow raiding is treated as seriously, if not more so than a job, and when you have 9/24 other people doing that, the increase in efficiency is enough to push you head and shoulders above the rest of the crowd, simples.

Even if I'm rolling EFs on the raid without kiting on Garalon, I never see Mastery in my top 3 heals, its usually EF > Bacon >= HS and thats with the standard Spir > Mastery play

I'm sorry, but you are doing something terribly wrong!
I recommend going to WoL and looking at the good Holy Paladins who are ranking on current content.
This is my healing breakdown from the last kill I did on 10-man.
And here is my last heroic Garalon kill with the PvE 4-set.

---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 01:51 AM ----------

Also, by the end of this patch, we may reach spirit levels where we can afford to spam Holy Radiance x3 -> Eternal Flame while standing still, and only holy shock to save someone or while moving.

Last edited by Exac; 2013-03-08 at 09:47 AM.
Reason: added garalon log breakdown too, because Xs will just try and argue that the first log was not Garalon...