John C. Wright is a practicing philosopher, a retired attorney, newspaperman, and newspaper editor, and a published author of science fiction. Once a Houyhnhnm, he was expelled from the august ranks of purely rational beings when he fell in love; but retains an honorary title.

I wonder if perhaps modern authors and artists tend to fall into the trap of redeeming villains by making them victims instead do so because they don’t really understand what redemption is, nor understand why we root for heroes to win.

For so many people my age and younger (and a sadly large number older than myself) being a victim really has become the mark of the ‘good guys’ and heroes. They win directly because they are victims, because life owes it to them.

I think Mrs Wright missed one thing: Maleficint did go evil of her own choice in that she decided to take her revenge on the innocent child of Stefan rather than Stefan himself.

I thought the movie was just so much ‘meh’. Though I did like the villain was “redeemed” by her love for a child. (the little beasts do have a knack for stealing it from you don’t they?) I really kind of wanted to see more between her and Stefan and star crossed lovers.

Now if you want to talk about villains and redemption, anyone here watched the TV series Once Upon a Time? I think Mrs Wright may want to…

I wanted to thank you for putting well to words something I had been witnessing, but not really seeing. This trend has left a rather chill feeling as I have seen it sweep over popular culture like the shadowy taloned hand of something not entirely seen.

I would be most interested in further exposes as to the nature and portrayal of good and evil in fiction. How heroes and villains are made, defeated, change, etc. In addition to the “space princess movement” it may be time to actually bring the struggle of good vs. evil back to the forefront of sci fi and fantasy.

Many of the sci-fi and fantasy worlds, tv series, movies, and games now present everything in a gritty shades of gray morality where no one is truly heroic (as opposed to a flawed hero), and even the villains are not truly vile. This might have been exciting and daring for adolescents in the 80s, but it is now so prevalent is is as if a thick runny layer of gray lead-based paint has been splashed over everything.

(I tried to post this over at your wife’s site, but somehow couldn’t.)

I too have been confused by the plethora of “sympathy for the devil” comic books and movies that have been coming out of late. The first that I remember was Moore’s “The Killing Joke” about the Joker. I thought it was an admirable try at best, but ultimately a failure. I thought the origins of the Joker were best left secret, for what could possibly explain him? Moore’s one bad day theory immeasurably weakened the character in my eyes. And don’t get me started on the Star Wars prequels. They took one of the best villains ever and turned him into a whiny jerk.

As almost always happened, someone in the past summed villainous villainy better than I can, and think here of the words of Coleridge when discussing Iago. Iago’s motives, as laid out in four separate soliloquies all contradict each other: we are left with no reason for him doing what he does. It is, as Coleridge beautifully sums it up, a “motiveless malignity.” The best villains are villainous just because, with a hint of: because they like it.

Since writing the above, I have found myself going over several occasions where the ‘one bad day’ motif does seem to work for the villains. I am thinking mainly of characters from Batman: the animated series such as Mr Freeze or Riddler. I found their stories quite satisfying, in part because while the story explained how they became what they are, it did not excuse it. I imagine they use that motif so often in that series is because Batman himself is the archetype of the one bad day character, and it is common to have the villains and the hero mirror each other. Plus, Freeze did undergo a kind of redemption in his second appearance.

Another villain of that type comes from my favourite superhero movies, The Incredibles. Syndrome has his one bad day, but the movie does something very subtle: when the movie shows how Syndrome remembers that one bad day, his memory is wrong. He does not remember that his attempt to become Mr. Incredible’s sidekick very nearly got himself and a trainload of people killed.

So, as an addendum, while I prefer my villains to just be inexplicably villainous (and preferably with an upper class English accent) I recognize that the one bad day can, on rare occasions, be done well.

That too is true. Of course, the WB toon was so well done that even the most ridiculous things in the hands of another somehow just worked for them. The ancient Greeks would say they had drunk of the waters from Mount Helicon, or been blessed by the muses. It remains my favourite superhero show.

“I thought the origins of the Joker were best left secret.” I think the background story for the Joker was appropriate in the first Batman movie. We could see he had the makings of a killer, self-satisfied and ruthless, well before the acid vat episode. His would-be poetic villain motto “Ever dance with the devil in the pale moon light?” was perfectly telling. The accident only added a layer of grudge and madness to his ingrained cruelty. Villains in the subsequent movies were not so satisfying.