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Well then why is gear scaled with level? If 5% Doublestrike or +6 Resistance (ie saving throws) is "right" at L20, why not at L1?

Everything, really, should either progress with your level, or be available (even if rare/expensive/with a tradeoff) at any level. Otherwise, you get useless things like 1% Doublestrike on low-level gear, when players don't have enough damage or other stacking sources of Doublestrike to make 1% worth anything.

1% double strike is useless for me at level 1 because I kill everything in 1 or 2 shots on my TR.

1 extra hit out of 100 is not going to make a difference because everything is already dead.

to the opposite at end game 1 extra hit out of 100 is only a fraction of bloated mob HP and while it may make a small dent its just not feeling that great.

For what it's worth, many of these abilities intentionally don't scale like that because they already scale with character level. There's no particular reason why you should get 30% doublestrike at level 30 and only 1% doublestrike at level 1. If 30% is right at the high end, it's also right on the low end, because it already scales with all of your other character progression.

This applies to things like Doublestrike, spell cooldowns, PRR (which scales with enemy damage), saving throws (+1 is 5% on the d20 at any level, assuming you aren't already automatically succeeding or failing), etc. It possible we've miscategorized or simply missed some, so we're willing to change on some of those.
.)

how about some love for TWF and Repeater builds

double strike is only working on main hand it favors THF

double shot only works on the first bolt fired in a Volley of 3 fired by a repeater.

Edit* I would be much happier with some boost or buff to damage that effected both hands in TWF and all 3 bolts in repeater than these

as I commented already in the thread 1% double strike at level 1 is going to net my TR nothing because, 1 or 2 hits kills just about everything but, in epics it will add a very small boost to damage but nothing in comparison to the bloated mob HP. so really 1% double strike scales down in comparison of how effective the damage dealt by 1 strike is vs. lvl 1 content and EE content.

For what it's worth, many of these abilities intentionally don't scale like that because they already scale with character level. There's no particular reason why you should get 30% doublestrike at level 30 and only 1% doublestrike at level 1. If 30% is right at the high end, it's also right on the low end, because it already scales with all of your other character progression.
)

Yet, it does provide an equal benefit because the amount of double strike on a toon increases as they go up in level (in most cases) as more AP are available, more epic destinies, and better gear.

Simple math shows this to be true.

If you have 50% doubles strike and get a 1% increase it is a lesser percentage increase in total damage then if you have no double strike and get 1% more.

Same goes for PRR, for example where diminishing returns kick in and PRR on builds almost always goes up from level 1 to 28.

Same goes for PRR, for example where diminishing returns kick in and PRR on builds almost always goes up from level 1 to 28.

This is part of why my tank is sad about the divine sphere feats. +3 PRR even stacked 9 times to +27 is only going to increase my damage reduction from around 52% to 55%. While a toon with no PRR would be going from 0% to getting around 15%.

For what it's worth, many of these abilities intentionally don't scale like that because they already scale with character level. There's no particular reason why you should get 30% doublestrike at level 30 and only 1% doublestrike at level 1. If 30% is right at the high end, it's also right on the low end, because it already scales with all of your other character progression.

This applies to things like Doublestrike, spell cooldowns, PRR (which scales with enemy damage), saving throws (+1 is 5% on the d20 at any level, assuming you aren't already automatically succeeding or failing), etc. It possible we've miscategorized or simply missed some, so we're willing to change on some of those.

And I think the surveys have survived for one more day, if someone wants to slip one in before Tuesday.

For what it's worth, we explicitly decided to not have an always-on passive of Spell Points, because that means all of your characters forever have a spell point bar regardless of classes, which some people dislike. If it's really considered desirable, it wouldn't be possible as one of the toggles, however. (Though there hasn't been much clamoring for it that I've seen so far.)

Hmm so if some people do not like it the majority can not have it. If really that important to please these people that do not like having spell points on a melee, give them that option to remove the spell points and let the rest of use keep them. To me this is better solution then just saying oh you can not have this, because we might annoy some of these people. Just my thoughts.

I really think the casters ED line is to weak for the amount of xp you have to gain. Reality if I was able to gain the xp in my main ED, not the ones I want the abilities from the system would be nicer. I really do not like the going backwards to get forward approach also, lost a lot good friends in the game, because different playing times. Lets face it not everyone can play the same hours. Due to work and other life facts and it would been nicer if create a system that took this in to account. I hate feeling if do not stay I am going to fall behind or if do stay up I will out pace my friends. These system are more worried generating xp sales then addressing these problems. The system would been nicer with options you do not have to back track to get the beneifits. Though allowing players that enjoy that aspect to go right ahead. This is just my thoughts on the system.

Last this so call logic you have to train in the skill you are learning. Yeah that is true, but more in like to find a expert in the skill and train over months and months. Not fighting monsters with your weaker abilities. Why would you ever forgot all stronger skills to learn another one? Reality you would always keep some of these abilities around while learning the new skill. Just in cause you got in a bind. To me a better way to handling the ED xp would been having a main ED and a off ED. This way you can throw 50% xp to the one you trying to learn and have the rest wasted. Instead of using twist you could used a main ED and off Ed. For example after you completed the main Ed you pick off ED were you can pick one Skill at tier one. Then when get more and more you can open up teir 2 and so on. If your main ED is not capped out all xp goes into that until it is capped. As you get more and more points you allow people open you more off ED's. With all xp split between them at the 50% rate. This way you using the ED to please your need for some kind of logic really does not matter and you let the player enjoy there journey to uberness. Reality you can make logic fit your idea, because all logic really is people's perception of the world in a fantasy game. Since this is fantasy world logic just has to be accept. Another way to gain xp without being in that skill or ability would be using a timer once enough xp was gain to get the new ability. The character train with the scholar to learn the new find skill. Logic to me in fantasy world is just a believable reason for a given. This is why I do not believe logic can fail in fantasy, you just need a bigger imagination to make it work. Please bring back the fun, I want to play with my new found strengths while gaining new skills. Stop making me go back ten steps to get 10.1 forward.

For what it's worth, we explicitly decided to not have an always-on passive of Spell Points, because that means all of your characters forever have a spell point bar regardless of classes, which some people dislike. If it's really considered desirable, it wouldn't be possible as one of the toggles, however. (Though there hasn't been much clamoring for it that I've seen so far.)

Some of the heroic past lives give spell points, so that's too late for some characters. My Monk and Barbarian both have useless SP bars.

Maybe add a toggle in the UI section that allows the SP bar and/or Ki bar to be hidden?

Anyway, the Arcane epic past life is especially weak, so needs some major improvement.

It sounds like +1 damage, +1 attack, +3 usp from the description. So basically most of the fighter & monk passive past lives combined, with a little extra for casters.

Ok, but first of all this is one of the past live and I doubt a fighter has an issue with the attack and 1% absorption per life doesn't sound to be worth the grind neither, so the only real interesting point is the +1 to damage. Also at the time the old heroic past lifes where introduced a +1 to attack was worth more then as it is today. Secondly does this even stack with the enhancement buff from an Artificer or any other weapon enhancement? As a reminder the past life of the Artificer does not.
Also for this argument to be valid we would have to assume that players that don't want to run in off-destinies do already have the corresponding heroic past life, e.g. an artificer as otherwise one could try to run in-destiny. Also player that have already capped off-destiny probably already have enough karma when this system go live to at least get this past life one time.

So yes, this past life would require one to run in off-destiny while I even not really get why this past life is in the Arcane sphere like that anyway.

As others already mentioned that they would rather prefer a penalty to earning the karma then running in off-destiny. So then how it would be to have the overflow of karma apply to asscending Spheres with a penalty. This also take into consideration that players may already have a capped destiny. So while running in your karma kapped destiny (6M) all karma you earn will overflow into the other spheres. In case one is in the central sphere the karma shouldn't however overflow in same quantities as this would mean you actually level those 2-3 times faster which is probably the most tricky part.

To avoid this one would probably need to increase the penalty up to the point where only 90%/sphere of the current karma overflows to asscending spheres. In other words if we only ascend to one sphere 90%/1 = 90% of current XP overflows, if two non capped spheres are connected each would level with 90%/2 = 45% and if we are in the center sphere we would level each connected sphere with 90%/3 = 30%.

* We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
* Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

A few suggestions...

Hello - I have been thinging about these over the weekend - below are a few suggestions that would make the EPL carrot big enougth to temp me...

Martial Sphere:

Doublestrike:

Stance: 2% Doublestrike per stack of this Past Life
Add the 2% above is weak - would like 3%,6%,10% for the 3 stacks
Add +1 Tatical DC per 15 Levels - stacks 3 times (6 total = same as a ED twist)
Add Reduce Tatical Cooldowns 1s @ LV 2 - stacks 3 times

Passive Bonus: +2 AC per stack of this Past Life and +1 AC per Ten Character levels.

Skill mastery:

Stance: +1 to all Skills per stack of this Past Life
Add + 1 action boost at LV 20 - stacks 3 times
Add - 1 sec cooldown on skills / action boost cooldowns - stacks 3 times
Passive Bonus: +2 AC per stack of this Past Life and +1 AC per Ten Character levels.

Fortification:

Stance: +10% fortification per stack of this Past Life.
Add +10% chance to shrug off Stuns/webs/chaines, CC per past live - stacks 3 time
Passive Bonus: +2 AC per stack of this Past Life and +1 AC per Ten Character levels.

Primal Sphere:

Double Shot:

Stance: 1% double shot per 10 levels - stacks 3 times
Add the 1% above is weak - would like 3%,6%,10% for the 3 stacks
Passive: +3 Maximum Hitpoints and +4 per ten character levels.

Fast Healing:

Stance: Each minute you heal with positive energy, 5Hp + 5 HP every 5 character levels. Healing is doubled and tripled with two or three stacks of this Past Life.
Passive: +3 Maximum Hitpoints and +4 per ten character levels.

Colors of the Queen:

Stance: Your unarmed, melee and ranged attacks and spells have a 7% chance to produce a random effect. This triggers at most once every 60 seconds. Additional stacks of the past life reduce the triggered effect cooldown to 45 seconds and then 30 seconds.
Passive: +3 Maximum Hitpoints and +4 per ten character levels.

Divine Sphere:

Healing Power:

Stance: +10 positive energy spell power per stack of this past life.
Add 10 is weak... at least 15 or 20 per past life... a simple in game pot is better than this past life
Passive: +3 PRR per stack of this past life.

Brace:

Stance: +1 to all saving throws per stack of this past life.
Add at least +2
Add +10% chance to shrug off Stuns/webs/chaines, CC per past live - stacks 3 time
Passive: +3 PRR per stack of thie past life.

Block Energy:

Stance: While blocking, +10% damage absorption against Acid, Cold, Electric and Fire damage per stack of this past life.
Passive: +3 PRR per stack of this past life.

Arcane Sphere:

Energy Criticals:

Stance: 2% Critical Chance with Acid, Cold, Electric Fire and Sonic Spells
Add the 2% above is weak - would like 3%,6%,10% for the 3 stacks

Stance: Cooldowns on your spells are reduced by 3%. Additional stacks of Arcane Alacrity past life increases this to 6% and then to 10%.
Passive: +1% Absorption of Acid, Cold, Electric and Fire damage.
Add the 1% above is weak - would like 3%,6%,10% for the 3 stacks

Stance: Each minute you heal with positive energy, 5Hp + 5 HP every 5 character levels. Healing is doubled and tripled with two or three stacks of this Past Life.
Passive: +3 Maximum Hitpoints and +4 per ten character levels.

Fast Healing Stance I would prefer to see:
Stance: Every 6 seconds you heal 1hp +1hp Every 5 character levels healing is doubled or tripled with two or three stacks

A heroic character needs to achieve 1,900,000 experience to reach Lv 20, at which point they become eligible for heroic TR. To go from Lv 20 to 28, you then have to earn 4,700,000 more experience to get to the cap. That's over twice as much as heroic. On top of that, you have to earn 6,000,000 Karma - you actually have to sit at current cap for 1.3 million more experience, to earn the karma in the sphere that you want. That is more then triple the amount you have to earn for heroic For people who hate off-destinies, this is even more frustrating. Throw in the fact there are people who feel the epics give lackluster experience, and that's one hell of a grind. All of this, just for 1 EPL.

Strange, it takes me 6'6 million to get to 28, Turbine must not like me.

That said, that is 6.6 million epic xp, which isn't scaled the same way as heroic xp. More or less divide epic xp by 3 to get a rough equivalent to heroic xp. So, over triple the amount of a heroic first life is actually about the same, without all those low level comparatively poor xp quests.

It is a grind, but really it's less of one than a heroic second or third life with this taken into consideration.

I agree. But the game is designed more around hp's/quest or hp's/shrine, with healing being taken into consideration. Hp's/fight or mobs having to simply out damage regen is something they might be a bit leery about jumping into with both feet.

Well then why is gear scaled with level? If 5% Doublestrike or +6 Resistance (ie saving throws) is "right" at L20, why not at L1?

Everything, really, should either progress with your level, or be available (even if rare/expensive/with a tradeoff) at any level. Otherwise, you get useless things like 1% Doublestrike on low-level gear, when players don't have enough damage or other stacking sources of Doublestrike to make 1% worth anything.

Your logic is confounding.
I don't mean that in any positive manner.

Simply put, however, it's because mob abilities don't scale linearly-
If level 20 mobs were simply 20 kobolds strong, that wouldn't exactly draw out a feeling of being in danger from the adventurers who face them.

So, items scale off levels, while abilities directly stack upon each other, essentially creating their own sense of scaling.

By your misinterpretation of the logic, you'd want to see all feats and class and race abilities listed in percentages.
That would create a linear relation, meaning you'd be exactly as strong at level 1 versus a level 1 mob, as you would a 20 versus a 20; regardless of what you did.

However, stronger mobs are meant to be stronger, meaning that percentage based gains ARE percentage based, but they don't increase as you level in relation to the mobs, so that the mobs become more challenging comparatively.

Or, another way to approach it-
Rather than viewing items as increasing with level, rather view it as getting [2% doublestrike feat, 1-5 times (over getting 2% to 10% single feat)]. Just like how feats don't work by self-upgrading in that manner, neither do items.

But you still don't expect to get x5 feats at level 20, or to have your old feats autoupgrade.

I can't give you more than that.

Originally Posted by Xeraphim

Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.

Originally Posted by Dandonk

Yeah. It's not "we nuked the city from orbit", it's "the city experienced a brief population drop". Check.

The arcane EPLs are far too weak to even remotely tempt me to eTR. 1% energy absorption?? So a 100 pt fireball will do 99 instead? There is no way you could notice a difference. 3% reduction in cooldowns?? So a 5 second cooldown is 4.85 seconds instead? This is lol sad. +1 enchant weapon for an arcane? DC casting has been nerfed for EEs so something to help in that regard would be nice. Maybe arcanes could get to within 10 dcs of a monk (who dont have to worry about spell pen or spell point pool limit - yeah for unlimited insanely high instakills!) that would be nice.

As others have noted I like limiting EPLs to level 20+ and making them useful. The Arcane EPLs should be totally reworked to help DC casters because they've been totally nerfed for EEs (and vs the DCs of some other classes) and because playing a non-DC Arcane is just not fun IMO.

As others have noted I like limiting EPLs to level 20+ and making them useful. The Arcane EPLs should be totally reworked to help DC casters because they've been totally nerfed for EEs (and vs the DCs of some other classes) and because playing a non-DC Arcane is just not fun IMO.

I would tend to agree the %crit and +enhancement overlap does leave me feeling kinda meh for an arcane, since probabalisticly, they end up intersecting the same design space. Maybe replace the %crit with an on-spellcrit effect that debuffs saves similar to the Draconic enhancement for elements?

This applies to things like Doublestrike, spell cooldowns, PRR (which scales with enemy damage), saving throws (+1 is 5% on the d20 at any level, assuming you aren't already automatically succeeding or failing), etc. It possible we've miscategorized or simply missed some, so we're willing to change on some of those.

To double back a bit to this, I'll simply say: While this makes sense in a purely isolated systems design context, please have a word with the loot and mob design folks about their own power curves and adjust for context.

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