Eighteeen years ago, I was doing some on-air work for the local FOX affiliate in Chicago. (How is that possible, you ask, since I’m only 29 now, right? RIGHT?)

My brother, unbeknownst to me, made a post on a local media forum to promote my appearances. Sounds good, right? What ensued was a lengthy string of comments. Many of them were lovely. Others were less so. Not Gamergate repugnant, but rude nonetheless.

My friends have asked me why I don’t just delete the negative comments on my site. It’s because the comments document a certain sector of our population that takes great joy in being anonymously nasty.

And, please. As a kindergartner, I had to learn to deal with adults saying scary, racist things to my face. These comments were more like irritating gnats.

Comments (156)

Jae Kim, you should bulk e-mail your notice about your sister being on TV.
Mail it out to about 5 million people at once. It would be a very pleasant
change from MOST of the junk e-mail people seem to be sending out nowadays.

Geez, what a couple of horseshit responses by Nitman and Rhodes. I’ve
read her column (Jae Ha Kim’s), she’s very good, and why shouldn’t the guy
announce that she’s got a spot on TV? I think it’s time to coin a new
internet term: “a waste of flame.”

Norman …you’re a bimbo. If you think Jae-Ha Kim is a bimbo, you obviously need to look up the definition in a dictionary. Do you know what that is? I know it’s a long word…Here’s another word you should look up: misogynist. ‘Cause you sure show signs of being one. Here’s a word you won’t have to look up: idiot. ‘Cause that’s what you are. I have been a long-time reader of the Sun-Times and a long-time fan of her work in the paper, on TV and on the radio. Here are the facts. She is a reporter for one of the top 10 newspapers in the country whose work won her journalistic awards. Besides writing about “pop culture” and the arts for the Sun-Times, her work has appeared in national publications like Rolling Stone, Variety,Spin, USA Today and Entertainment Weekly. I’ve also heard her talking about music on Q101 and WLUP and WGCI. She has something like 6 or 7 books out and has been on the New York Times Bestsellers lists a couple times. She graduated from the University of Chicago and got her masters degree at Northwestern. So who cares if she’s on TV or not? I do. And so do the millions of other people who’ve read her work and seen her reports on television. Say “buh bye” Norman. ‘Cause you’re just a big, old, goobery dork who’s probably too stupid to even know how to program your own VCR.

You’re sorry for thinking my feelings might be hurt? You are nice after
all The other poster forced your hand? Somebody said something good so you
had to say something bad?

>>You really shouldn’t post moronic responses. To paraphrase, “Better to not post and be thought a jackass, than to post and remove all doubts.” Unfortunately, your sister makes a jackass of herself in print on a constant basis.< <

And I thought you were nice.

Anyhow, it’s nice to know that she reaches out to a spectrum of people –
however infrequently you may read. Her job is reporting her opinions on
entertainment – and it seems to me that she’s doing a good job when she
gets different responses from people.

By the way, who exactly were you trying to impress with the snippet of C
code in a previous post? Did this come out of working code? I hope you
found this in a book (where shortcuts are sometimes taken to illustrate
a point) or will say that you did this hastily as a come-uppance to
another poster. Anybody that knows C will find the code pretty crude.

ROFL! How old is this Norman fellow? He had to be an asshole because someone “forced” him? That’s what my 4 year old says when he gets in trouble! Someone made him do it! What a sad, pathetic little person Norman must be.

Mr. Nitman, let me help you out. Here’s the definition of bimbo according to the Merriam Webster dictionary: “an attractive but stupid woman.” I suppose you could say that attractive is subjective. Judging by her picture, I would say Ms. Kim is very pretty. As for stupid, why? Because you didn’t like that she wrote about something? That doesn’t qualify her as stupid. That’s your opinion. Did she make a factual error? That’s called being human. But I wouldn’t know if she made any errors since all you do is call her a bimbo. Judging by her education and career and work, she is far from stupid.

I realize this thread was started a long time ago. My guess is that she’s still attractive and smart. You on the other hand are probably just older.

Your rudeness really is uncalled for and unseemly. You should be ashamed of yourself.

this kind of flaming is really uncalled for. after all, isn’t this
chi.media? isn’t this newsgroup supposed to be about stuff on or about
chicago media and personalities? so what’s the problem with mentioning
that fox news has apparently introduced an entertainment segment on
their newscasts?

so what this appears to be is a gratuitous, and patently sophmoric
attempt to insult the poster because her sister is on tv.

Jae-Ha Kim is a skilled writer and reporter. She also is a colleague. In the
years I’ve worked with her at the Sun-Times, she has never missed a deadline.
Her copy always comes in clean and accurate. And she comes up with solid story
ideas. When another reporter needs help, she’s always there to help without
being asked.

She’s also a good sport. We drafted her to model for the cover of our
redesigned Weekend Plus section, which kicks off this Friday (Jan. 9). Luckily,
we got her before she became a big TV star. (Those of you who lost the
gist of this thread should read Rob Feder’s column today: he mentioned Jae-Ha’s
Fox News gig.)
>>Norman N writes: “Show me a journalist who hasn’t won an award.”< <
I suppose he could also say, “Show me an economist who hasn’t won an award” or
even, “Show me an actor who hasn’t won an award.” He would be incorrect in
each instance. Though our reporters are very talented, only about 10% of them
have won awards as professional journalists. I’m sure the percentage would go
up if we counted grammar school spelling bees ribbons and trophies. Jae-Ha won
a Peter Lisagor Award, beating out the Tribune, for her coverage of the Beatles
Anthology albums.

>>Norman writes: “I will be more than happy to give some examples of Kim’s crummy writing at *my* convenience.< <
Norman has been taking pot shots at Jae-Ha since December and hasn’t found it
convenient to find any examples. That speaks for itself.

>>Norman writes: ‘Hey, can you tell me what this loop does? I’m too stupid to figure it out.< <

To whomever nailed him on this one (Jae-Ha’s brother, I believe), kudos! It
was most excellent.

Your attempt was weak. You insult our intelligence with your
random claims. You obviously don’t know her her personally, and yet you claim
to hate a person you don’t know. If you hate her writing so much, then stop
reading it. I’m surprised you didn’t come to the conclusion yourself. This is
where you whine, “I don’t read her anymore.” Which is where I say, “Then you
don’t know what you’re talking about.”
This thread was started by someone who wanted to let people know about his
sister’s latest career move. You don’t want to see her on TV? Fine. Don’t watch
when she’s on. What is your strange obsession with her anyway? Scratch that. I
really don’t want to hear your answer.

Jae Kim,
Your sister did a really nice review of “La Femme Nikita” the other day in the
Sun-Times. That series is better than both Luc Besson’s film of the same name
as well as the American version that starred Bridget Fonda.

Although I also like Lon Grahnke’s work, he has the tendency to give too much
away. I also thought she did a great job on Fox reviewing Jim Jarmusch’s
documentary about Neil Young (“The Year of the Horse”). She’s a natural for TV.

Also, let’s quit giving this Norman guy a forum to vent his spleen. What he
wants most is attention. He knows he’ll never get it on a large scale like the
people he slams. So he enjoys being a “star” on an online board where he can
anonymously dish it out but can’t take it. Rest assured that he will write
“provoking” posts to incite the rest of us to respond in kind to him.

I know that I’ve been the most guilty of letting him wank off online by
rebutting his feeble arguments. But it’s grown old fast. Kinda like Norman.

Let me tell you about meeting Norman for the first, and hopefully only, time in
the real world. He was boasting about his Nixon web site and someone got into a
discussion with him about presidential elections. The “facts” that he spewed
were weak at best and libelous at worst.

You’re absolutely right. As a matter of fact, I had intended to post my
last reply to him, but I sent it to him via email by mistake. I’ll
repost it.
> Let me tell you about meeting Norman for the first, and hopefully only, time in
> the real world. He was boasting about his Nixon web site and someone got into a
> discussion with him about presidential elections. The “facts” that he spewed
> were weak at best and libelous at worst.
>
> Needless to say, no one took him seriously.

That’s funny, and what I imagined him to be like

Hi folks,
Below is what I meant to post. By accident, Norm was sent it via email.

Well Norman,

I have yet to see you post anything of substance. All you seem to post
are knee-jerk responses so that you can have the last word. And often
non-sequiturs. As examples, I included your responses to my last post.

I enjoy having discussions with people who have something worthwhile to
say, even if they disagree with my positions. I tell my kids that you
can learn something from anybody. But in your case, I don’t want to
waste a whole lot of time in hopes of picking up a nit, so this is my
last post on this thread.

As a parting farewell, think about these things, Norman. Have you ever
admitted that you were wrong? Have you ever wondered why you
don’t/can’t have meaningful discussions/relationships? Or if you think
you do, why nobody else seems to? Is your hero Cliff on “Cheers”?

I’m sure that you will have something extremely clever as a retort.
However, I don’t plan to read any more of your posts unless somebody
directs me to one. And, since you’re the type that thinks any attention
is better than none, I’ll bet that what’ll really get your goat is that
I’m not going to read your post

Jae Kim wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Below is what I meant to post. By accident, Norm was sent it via email.

well, at the very least, this should translate into ratings since some
of the people reading this are bound to want to check out her tv gig,
in addition to checking out her newspaper column, so you should be
sending norman a “thank you” note.

Aragon Ballroom, 1106 W. Lawrence. This place hasn’t been dubbed the
>”Scaragon” for nothing. Bring your own toilet paper!
>
> Riviera, 4746 N. Racine. Arghhh. Wear platforms; the toilets overflow like
>crazy.
>
> Metro, 3730 N. Clark. If you can’t urinate under pressure, don’t drink
>anything here. Because of the limited number of stalls, there’s always a
>line,
>and the natives get restless if you’re not in and out in 30 seconds.

Ah, I remember this story well. It was assigned by a former editor who thought
that a cover story on bathrooms across the city would be good reading material.
🙂 We sent Jae-Ha Kim and Ernie Tucker to feret out the best and worst
women’s and men’s WCs (respectively). Anyone who’s been to the Aragon, Metro or
Riv will recognize the descriptions as being right on. Jae and Ernie came back
with some frightening stories. If any of you would care to post some more
snippets of Sun-Times stories, I’d be happy to fill in the history. Thanks for
the promo.

Good lord. A man decides to tell people that his sister–who has a big following–is on TV, and he winds up getting flamed. The fact is Jae Ha Kim (and full disclosure here: I’m a collegue and fan of hers) IS a talent, with a voice. If you disagree, that’s cool. But to make personal criticisms of a person you don’t even know [Norman, shame on you]–calling her a bimbo, no less–based on your interpretation of how she writes is a waste of bandwidth. Senseless. Pinheaded. Stupid.

I just consumed the whole of this thread in one sitting. For all his
unsubstantiated slams, the only evidence of Jae’s incompetence that Norman has
offered is some quite accessible prose she wrote about nightclub bathrooms, in
compliance with an editor’s assignment. Anyone who finds this grounds to embark
on a smear campaign must either never urinate or never go to nightclubs. Which
is true for you, Norman?
Darel Jevens
Another admiring Sun-Times colleague

BODY:
Pop quiz: Keanu Reeves is in Chicago filming “Chain Reaction,” and you’re
dying to see him. What do you do? The best approach may be retracing his steps.
Here are a few of the places Reeves has been spotted.

I remember this story! It was awesome. The radio stations picked up on it after
her article came out and I must admit it was pretty cool to have Keanu in
Chicago filming a movie (even though the movie sucked!).

How can one person be so stupid as to believe that reporters always get to pick
and choose what they want to write about and therefore are to blame for
everything bad (or, conversely, to credit for everything good)? GET A GRIP. No
job like that exists.
Even on school newspapers, it’s a give and take between coming up with our own
ideas and having to do what our editors/advisors want. The hysterical part is
that the Nixon fetishist embarasses himself just a little more with each post.
Austin

Anna, he’s trying to prove his point that Jae’s a “bimbo” by writing this article. Norman doesn’t know how publications work. Reporters are given assignments. If it wasn’t her, it would’ve been somebody else.

As someone who has known Jae Ha Kim since high school, I can attest that she is
not a bimbo. She’s one of the most intelligent people I have ever met, and I
regret not having the opportunity to see her on television, since I moved to
Denver a number of years ago.
Julie

Take this little quiz. While paging through a newspaper, you run across a story
that does not interest you. What is your next thought?
a) “Yawn. Guess I’ll turn the page.”

b) “Yessss! If I’m really lucky, this writer’s brother will go online and tell
people she’s going on TV, so I can respond by researching everything she’s ever
written and making fun of it and taking cheap shots at her brother and everyone
else who enjoys her work!”

Y’know, my initial criticism of Kim was limited to a snide remark about
setting my VCR in response to her brother’s original post. I certainly
did not plan to go on a campaign against her. However, I am quite willing
to back up my assertations and was challenged to do so. If you don’t like
it, you are welcome to take your own advice and ignore my posts.

If there’s anything worse than a weasel, it’s a weasel with selective memory.
His snide remark about the VCR wasn’t offensive. But his use of the word
“bimbo” was. He may not have planned a anti-Kim campaign, but he sure was
quick to attack when others called him on his remarks. As for his “proof” to
substantiate his outrageous “assertations”, all he’s proven is that he can cut
and paste a story on a newsgroup. Big deal. So can my little brother.

from cst666:
>She’s also a good sport. We drafted her to model for the cover of our
>redesigned Weekend Plus section, which kicks off this Friday (Jan. 9).
>Luckily,
>we got her before she became a big TV star. (Those of you who lost the
>gist of this thread should read Rob Feder’s column today: he mentioned
>Jae-Ha’s
>Fox News gig.)

It was a very nice cover. Congrats, Jae-Ha. The beatnik story was pretty
interesting although I don’t consider some of the bars mentioned as being
terribly beatnik.

It took a bit of doing to find this joint and I must confess to being bored. I
too, consumed this thread in a single sitting, and I’m not sure what to say
except Jae (who sits right next to me) has her detractors. Always have, and
always will, but so do we all. That’s why there’s chocolate AND vanilla. It is
absolutely impossible to tell whether or not someone is a bimbo from their
writing, for the record.

Love or hate her style, it is inarguable that Jae has few peers at writing for
her target audience. Norman wrote previously of being unable to wait for
Jae’s expose on the Spice Girls, but the SGs are pop culture, and Jae is a fine
pop culture writer, far better than I, I must admit. I don’t expect that I will
be the last word on this (what seems to me) colossally idiotic thread.

Norman, you don’t like Jae or her writing, which is fine. Everyone is
entitled to their opinion. I don’t think that insults and slams are necessary
to get your opinion across, sir. It’s patently unfair. I should also add that
your posted snippets from Jae’s writings defend her status as a fine chronicler
of pop culture.

Kevin Williams

p.s. her bathroom assessments are dead on. The men’s room at the Aragon would
have aged her ten years!

I feel like such a hoser, no slights to Canadians intended. Intending to post
here, I instead wound up creating a new topic, called “this sister business.”
Should anyone care what I think, it’s hidden in here somewhere.
Kevin Williams

This is pretty rich. Jae-Ha Kim’s officemate starts a new thread,
worries that people won’t see it and posts a reference deep in the
original thread, an apparent sockpuppet “me toos” each post, and
now this idiot reposts the thing in the original thread! Austin, I
realize that I asked the wrong person before, but could you please
tell me the “something like 6 or 7 books” that Kim wrote? I could
only find the “Friends” book at amazon.com. Someone told me that
she had written a book on “Seinfeld”, but maybe that’s out of print.

>Subject: This “sister” business
>From: kevv…@aol.com (KEVVWILL)
>Date: Sun, Jan 11, 1998 16:59 EST
>Message-id:
>
>It took a bit of doing to find this joint and I must confess to being bored. I
>too, consumed this thread in a single sitting, and I’m not sure what to say
>except Jae (who sits right next to me) has her detractors. Always have, and
>always will, but so do we all. That’s why there’s chocolate AND vanilla. It is
>absolutely impossible to tell whether or not someone is a bimbo from their
>writing, for the record.
>
Just because Jae-Ha Kim has her detractors doesn’t mean that she’s a good
writer. For the record, when I called Jae-Ha Kim a “bimbo,” I meant it
in the “airhead”, not the “pushover” sense.

>Love or hate her style, it is inarguable that Jae has few peers at writing for
>her target audience. Norman wrote previously of being unable to wait for
>Jae’s expose on the Spice Girls, but the SGs are pop culture, and Jae is a
>fine pop culture writer, far better than I, I must admit. I don’t expect that
>I will be the last word on this (what seems to me) colossally idiotic thread.
A colossally idiotic thread is quite appropriate when the subject
is Jae-Ha Kim!

>
>Norman, you don’t like Jae or her writing, which is fine. Everyone is
>entitled to their opinion. I don’t think that insults and slams are necessary
>to get your opinion across, sir. It’s patently unfair. I should also add that
>your posted snippets from Jae’s writings defend her status as a fine
>chronicler of pop culture.
>
>Kevin Williams
Mr. Williams, sir, I did call Kim a bimbo and people have taken offense. To
anyone who might actually be disturbed by such a mild epithet, I truly
apologize. I suggest that they avoid Usenet in the future. However, as long
as the bleeding-heart brigade has gathered together, perhaps the congregation
might consider the following insults directed at me in this thread:

Big, old, goobery dork.
Bimbo.
Bitter.
Boasts about Nixon web site.
Can anonymously dish it out but can’t take it.
Can only cut and paste a story on a newsgroup.
Conspiracy nut.
Crude C coder.
Defender of “reverse racists.”
Dismisses publications just out of spite.
Don’t/can’t have meaningful discussions/relationships.
Enemy of liberals and perhaps even Hubert Humphrey.
Failed television personality.
Fixated on digging up everything Jae-Ha Kim did.
Geek.
Gratuitous insulter.
Has strange obsession for Jae-Ha Kim.
Hero is Cliff on “Cheers”.
Idiot.
Insults the collective intelligence of chi.media.
Jackass.
Leftist.
Libelous.
Misogynist.
Never urinates nor goes to nightclubs.
Nixon fetishist.
Patently sophmoric.
Pinheaded.
Probably too stupid to even know how to program VCR.
Quick to attack.
Senseless.

So stupid as to believe that reporters always get to pick
and choose what they want to write about.
Takes cheap shots.
The type that thinks any attention is better than none.
Uses non-sequiturs.
Weasel with selective memory.
Whines.
Writes kneejerk and horseshit responses.
Now all’s fair, but given the ferocity of my opponents, I don’t see
why you’re so concerned about protocol.

>
>p.s. her bathroom assessments are dead on. The men’s room at the Aragon would
>have aged her ten years!
>
No one questioned the veracity of her bathroom reporting. Most of the
quasi-sockpuppets from the Sun-Times who posted here brought this up, so
I guess that’s a major point Kim is making as she hysterically lobbies
her co-workers to post to chi.media for the first time (with the exception
of Bey). I will say that it is the best bathroom reporting I’ve ever seen.
In fact, it is the only bathroom reporting I’ve ever seen. Perhaps this
is because bathroom conditions are a moot point for people who want to
go to a particular concert or club. This actually might be a funny story
in the right hands, but as Kim has no sense of humor, it sucks as usual.

I must take exception to one of Kim’s points. I have gone to dozens
of concerts at the Aragon Ballroom over a period of twenty years and
I have never, ever heard anyone refer to it as the “Scaragon.” When
not called by its proper name, it is universally called
“The [Aragon] Brawlroom.”

A final note about Kim’s latest appearance on the local Fox news:
I thought it was quite a coincidence that her two lead “stories”
were on The X Files and Seinfeld when those happen to be the two
programs immediately following the show – even though the Seinfeld
story was a day or two old. I did find the story about Tracy Chapman
being on Sesame Steet mildly interesting.

LOL!!! This guy is hysterically. He imagines that his words are so important that the entire Sun-Times desk was spending all their time “defending” Jae. HAHA! What century is he from? Seems like he just wanted attention.

For a man who claims to have such distaste for me, Norman sure spends a lot of time researching me, watching me on TV, reading my stories, posting about me on message boards and, now, e-mailing me. Still, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

Ah yes, Peter Margasak, the Byron Coley clone who previously put out the
aptly named “But Ragg” fanzine. True enough, if you hate pop music and love
avant guard a la Margasak, you’d have little use for Jae-Ha. But my guess
is that most Chicagoans would prefer the Impressions and the Pumpkins to
Tortoise and Repulse Kava…

Everybody has their favorite Jae-Ha moment. Mine was several years ago
when she, writing about an upcoming concert by the British band
Swervedriver in the Sun-Times, called the bands sound “reggae-influenced”.
Being that this particular band of the shoegazer genre (early 90s guitar
rock w/lots of effects) had never played a note before or since that could
remotely be construed as reggae-esque, I could only conclude that she’d
seen a promo picture of the band, saw the dreadlocked lead singer, and
drew her own conclusions.

Having caught this band just about every time they played the midwest, as well as a couple times in Europe, I find this description accurate. Their live shows sounded surprisingly different from their records. Speaking of which, does anyone know what has happened to this group?

Evan, lets simplify:
If you can point to one instance of recorded output (including
bootlegs or non-US EPs) that would even remotely support Ms. Kims
“touch of reggae” description, I will gladly eat all the shit you
care to send my way. This would include anything recorded well
before or after the review in question.

And lets not use the “you had to be there at Oxford late 80s”
schtick. Sure, I heard Tortoise do “Pork Salad Annie” when they
opened for Codeine at Lounge Ax. And Lungfish did a bitchin’ cover
of “Snowbird”. Oh, and what about Minor Threats version of “Dance
with Me”? Really. Swear to god. No evidence to back me up, but
I’ll be sure to mention the influence Anne Murray had on
Lungfish the next time they are in town and I’m writing my review..

Having said all this, I’m hoping that you CAN provide the
evidence. Surprises are good.
jeff (jeff…@mcs.com)

: And lets not use the “you had to be there at Oxford late 80s”
: schtick. Sure, I heard Tortoise do “Pork Salad Annie” when they

I’m sorry for you (talk about a band that owes its carreer to a rock scribe)

: opened for Codeine at Lounge Ax. And Lungfish did a bitchin’ cover
: of “Snowbird”. Oh, and what about Minor Threats version of “Dance
: with Me”? Really. Swear to god. No evidence to back me up, but
: I’ll be sure to mention the influence Anne Murray had on

Dunno about Minor Threat (Filler!) but you can definitely hear a Laura Nyro influence on Sonic Youth – especially the Homestead and SST stuff.

>From: ju…@ripco.com (Justified Elder of Mu Mu)
>>: And lets not use the “you had to be there at Oxford late 80s”
>>: schtick. Sure, I heard Tortoise do “Pork Salad Annie” when they
>>I’m sorry for you (talk about a band that owes its carreer to a rock scribe)

Mu, very funny. I can’t think of a worse band out there.

jeffnmoe, I have no evidence, just my memory of some pretty awesome shows when
Swervedriver jammed out and really went wild. They were amazing back then, and
not at all tired like they are now. Anyone catch them at Metro last weekend?
It’s time for them to just break up the band.

Just to clarify…the mention of Tortoise, Lungfish, doing bogus
70s covers was sarcasm to prove my lame point, not reality. My
apologies to those who took it at face value. And I ain’t no
rock crit, just another knob who spends too much cash on music.
…and Jums and Evandeg, I share your opinions on Tortoise. The
emperor has no clothes.
Anyway, enough breast beating. Evandeg, I am really curious about
those late 80s Swervedriver shows you mentioned and would like to
hear more, if you have time and don’t mind posting or emailing.
Thanks.

actually….it is called “Poke Salad Annie”, originally recorded by Tony Joe
White, a fine roots/rockabilly guitarist. Please check the Encyclopedia of
Southern Culture if you’re unsure what a poke salad is…..especially before
you turn in your next review.
ts

This is how misinformation gets passed along. Judging by the following post,
one would think that Kim tried to pass Swervedriver off as the next Bob Marley.

It seems to me that aside from the reggae part, you and Kim had the same take
on the band. Actually, Kim did not present the band as a reggae band in her
story. She did make note of their various influences which have included
reggae What she wrote was; “Making as much noise as Sonic Youth and relying as
heavily on guitars as My Bloody Valentine, England’s Swervedriver throws in a
*touch* of *reggae* that mutates their sound just so. Sometimes uneven live
performers whose songs tend to drone on a la the Grateful Dead, Swervedriver
fares much better with its current CD Mezcal Head: strong lyrics and punkish
guitars played loudly…. Sometimes dubbed “anglo-grunge,” the tag is
deceiving. While they’re as loud as their Sup pop American counterparts etc.” I
think that gives readers an idea of the type of music they play without
misleading them into thinking the band is a rasta band. Those who’ve seen the
band’s early shows, especially their club gigs in Oxford/London during the late
1980s, would’ve known that her description was right on.

i look at it this way, if you’re right, it means that she wrote a
bad column. but everybody writes bad columns, it’s just that the
better columnists write fewer bad columns. if all this is about
one possibly bad column, then that would suggest that kim is a
pretty good columnist.

from the stuff that i’ve read, i would say that my reaction has ranged
from “huh??” (i.e. i didn’t get the point) to really quite good. my
general impression is that she writes to a ‘generation x’ audience,
which in my opinion seems appropriate since those are the people who
are most likely to be going out and about. for my part, i’m just
marking time until i can start getting aarp discounts so i’m clearly
not in the target audience.

Sigh…
For the record, these are the last words that will flow from my keyboard about
this (previously stated) silly thread, done so only to correct some apparent
mistaken perceptions on behalf of Norman.

>This is pretty rich. Jae-Ha Kim’s officemate starts a new thread,
>worries that people won’t see it and…
The new thread beginning was, as stated, a mistake. Enough said.

>For the record, when I called Jae-Ha Kim a “bimbo,” I meant it
>in the “airhead”, not the “pushover” sense.
“Airhead” would have been a more precise use of language, sir, and I’m guessing
would have spared you the tremendous amount of verbiage expended upon this
topic. “Bimbo,” as I am sure you are aware by now, has negative sexual
connotations that can be inferred from its use, which cannot help but rouse
defenders.

>Mr. Williams, sir, I did call Kim a bimbo and people have taken offense. To
anyone who might actually be disturbed by such a mild epithet, I truly
apologize. I suggest that they avoid Usenet in the future.>
The issue isn’t the use of an epithet. It’s the indefensibly gratuitious use of
it. As I said earlier, “airhead” is an opinion, “bimbo” is a slur, and an
unfair one at that. You then go on to cite insults hurled at you, and those are
just as unnecessary. Are insults disturbing? Of course not. That’s life.
Icannot, however, help but wish for a higher level of discourse.

>No one questioned the veracity of her bathroom reporting. Most of the
quasi-sockpuppets from the Sun-Times who posted here brought this up, so I
guess that’s a major point Kim is making as she hysterically lobbies her
co-workers to post to chi.media for the first time (with the exception of
Bey).>
Lee Bey discovered this thread the same way we all did, through discussing of
places where the Sun-Times is a topic. Staffers frequently visit such bulletin
boards to answer questions about the newspaper. We like to consider it a public
service. Jae lobbied no one that I am aware of for contributions to this space.
As colleagues, some of us came to her defense in light of a seemingly unfair
slam. The “quasi-sockpuppets” thing is another gratuitous insult, bait that I
shan’t rise to.

In closing, I can only repeat, Jae does have her detractors, including Reader
columnists Bill Wyman, and Peter Margasak, and they have every right to do so.
Life is like that. But, the reason they weren’t savaged by Jae’s defenders is
because they didn’t result to insults, sir, which is precisely my point. There
are ways to raise valid critiques of a person’s work, without calling them
names.

Having said this, I will leave you to your own purposes, Norman, and wish
you luck.

Wait. What? What are you fuckers even talking about. The amount of misogyny in this thread is unbelievable. Kim made exactly one response to him and Nitman complains that she’s whining. Get the fuck out of here you imbecile. And then you other fuckers are saying airhead would’ve been acceptable instead of bimbo. What planet do you live on? How patronizing of you all. And as for Wyman and Margasak, why do you even bring them up? And what do you mean they weren’t savaged by Jae’s “defenders” (again, how patronizing). Yes they were regularly given new holes and rightly so. They were (are?) Grade A assholes not just with her, but so many other bands. How the Reader allowed them to pass off their smear campaigns as “reporting” is beyond me. Do they even have jobs anymore? But you get what you pay for and that free rag always is good liner for my bird cage. Fuck all of you.

I agree with everything that you said, Carole. I just came upon this disgusting thread and read it all in one sitting. This is what Male Privilege looks like. This is what women deal with in 2017 still. Not much has changed.

To Ms. Kim, you are an incredible talent and role model for young girls and women. I came here because of your column (Chink Bitch) and am astounded by what you have put up with and how you have stayed at the top of your game.

Whilst I’ll take your word that Bey found the thread on his own, I think it’s
rather obvious, sir, that somebody lobbied somebody as you and a couple of
other Sun-Timers have never previously posted to Usenet at all, let alone
chi.media. I’m also curious about a couple of these aol accounts being used
to post here. Jae-Ha must have had a stockpile of those giveaway disks!

Actually, Evandeg, we’ve all chosen to ignore him. It seems to work better that
way, and he can go on playing about this board, and attacking one and all, in
efforts to get rises out of them. With me, it is ineffective, as I think it is
with Jae.
Once I determine someone is not interested in reasonable discussion, I’m off.
I’m sure someone will come along to make his day, however.

Norman Nitman wrote:
>
> A final note about Kim’s latest appearance on the local Fox news:
> I thought it was quite a coincidence that her two lead “stories”
> were on The X Files and Seinfeld when those happen to be the two
> programs immediately following the show – even though the Seinfeld
> story was a day or two old. I did find the story about Tracy Chapman
> being on Sesame Steet mildly interesting.
>
so you watch ms. kim’s segment of fox news, search for books that she
has written, maintain archives of her previous columns, and seek out
articles about her: THIS ALL FOR A PERSON THAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE A
BIMBO???

what comes across in your posts is that you seem to have a fixation
with ms. kim (for whatever reason). in my opinion, since you are
apparently sending her email as well, i suggest that you go ahead an
ask her out on a date and see whether you can fulfill your fantasies.
in one sense, she *owes* it to you to go out on a date with you: these
diatribes of yours are no doubt a RATINGS BONANZA for ms. kim since
you know that people are going to check out her segment who otherwise
wouldn’t have given it a thought (did somebody say SWEEPS WEEK?). in
addition, people are also going to take a look at her column in the
chicago sun-times (people such as myself, who otherwise wouldn’t have
done so) just to see what the deal is.

so you can argue that you’re doing more for her career than any
boyfriend of her’s ever did…but maybe that’s what you intended.

Wow. What kind of fucked up joke is this? I know you mean well, but she doesn’t “owe” him anything–not even for ratings. Ha ha. I know what you meant, but given his obsession, this is disgusting. And why would you want that psycho to ask her on a date? Ugh.

Norman Nitman wrote:
>
> I cc’ed her a copy of my response to the repost of Williams’ defense.
> That’s what she was whining about. This can be verified by examining
> the headers of article 6a6abo$v…@huitzilo.tezcat.com.
>
i’m not going to get into a point by point rebuttal of your reply, so
i’ll simply ask: *why* did you see fit to copy jae-ha kim on your
reply? i mean, a lot of people get discussed in this newsgroup – if
the person being discussed reads about it in this newsgroup, i suppose
that’s ok, but taking the step of sending the person email to make sure
that they know they are being discussed is a bit unusual, to say the
least. but the whole energy and importance that you seem to have
attached to this seems a bit “out of the norm”.

I was replying to Kim’s officemates’ post several days after it first
appeared. As I accused Kim of putting people up to posting in her defense,
I cc’ed her on it. I don’t have to justify my actions to you and I’m
not going to let flames directed at me to go unanswered.

Okay, I’ve read enough of these posts about this woman, this guy’s sister, that
now I have to see who she is. Can someone please explain again just who she is
and what she is from and where I would be able to see her? Thanks!

i’ll use this post to respond to sneeezy’s request about who jae-ha
kim is (based upon my knowledge of her through this endless thread):
Norman Nitman wrote:
>
> I think it’s remarkable that two different individuals would both come out
> of the void on the same day and never post about anything except Jae-Ha Kim.
> Quite a coincidence, don’t you think?
>
well, it really all got started when a person posted a message stating
that jae-ha kim [an entertainment column writer at the chicago
sun-times] had begun doing an entertainment report segment on the
sunday night fox news broadcasts [there was also some mildly
interesting discussion of korean naming conventions].

the original poster was ms. kim’s sister [but, to me, the posting did
not seem out of context for a chi.media newsgroup that is presumably
concerned with discussion of chicago media and personalities]. in
response, you came from out of nowhere with statements about how ms.
kim was a “bimbo”. now you want to claim that you’re some sort of
victim? i think that there are a lot of people who *aren’t* calling
you names who are kind of wondering about you, and this “campaign” that
you seem to have waged. at the very least it appears that you seem to
think that there exists some sort of “relationship” between you and
kim in which she is out to get you by dispatching agents to this
newsgroup to do battle with you. i’d say, get help now before it’s too
late!

i suppose that you could say that you don’t care what people think,
which would begs the question as to why you’re bothering to post;
especially given the investigative effort that you seem to be putting
into some of them.

Norman Nitman (n…@huitzilo.tezcat.com) wrote:
: The only relationship we have is this Usenet discussion. We have seen
: five people from the Sun-Times including Kim’s editor, Kim’s officemate,
: and Kim herself posting to chi.media. Four of these people have never
: posted to Usenet before, ever. Highly unusual. David M. Williams, Kim’s

No more unusual than someone who is having such a lousy new year’s eve that
he posts a snide comment to a brother’s innocuous plug for his sister, four
days later posts that he doesn’t have time for this because “I have to pork
my girlfriend” but then refuses to let the thread die nearly a momth
later (wow mommy, I can dejanews too!)

look norman, over the past month we have had enough of your fixation
with jae-ha kim. let’s start talking about someone with whom *i’m*
fixated: the ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS angela miles.

i admit to having a 3+ year fixation with angela miles who is
absolutely fabulous beyond all belief in my mind. when she was
with cltv there was a change of cable companies at the apartment
at which i was then living resulting in my no longer being able
to watch cltv. i was so despondent at no longer being able to get
my regular fix of angela miles THAT I CEASED WATCHING TELEVISION
ALTOGETHER!!! i also lost my appetite and began losing weight at
oprah-speed. it was just terrible. i feared that, like so many other
cltv personalities, she would get a better job outside of chicago
meaning NO MORE ANGELA MILES IN MY LIFE! such was a fate too
horrible to imagine.

but then i heard that she got a job with wgn-tv. what a relief.
now if i could only get them to give her a web page like some of
the other people there have. i wrote to them requesting this
BUT HAVE TOTALLY BLOWN OFF apparently as i have yet to see one.

so help me out folks, send email at the http://www.wgntv.com web site and
DEMAND that the absolutely fabulous angela miles get a web page on
the wgn site. also, even though i don’t watch tv, i would be willing
to watch tv to see the absolutely fabulous angela miles. does anyone
know of a time when she would be on air? that way i can get myself
to a tv to watch her segment, without having to watch a bunch of tv
stuff that i don’t want to watch.

has anyone here actually met her fabulousness in person? lee bey,
or any other sun-times “agents” monitoring this newsgroup? i’d
like to begin a month-long discussion thread (or longer depending
how long it takes for temporary relief for my absolute fixation)
on the fabulous angela miles. for starters, what’s the bio on her?

Norman Nitman (n…@huitzilo.tezcat.com) wrote:
: Context, my boy, context. You know perfectly well that I made that crack

: in response to someone who told me to look up “misogynist” in the
: dictionary.
“Irony – an excuse for everything and an explanation for nothing” – Robert
Christgau. Context goes both ways – the point of my post is not to charge
you with misogyny – I have no doubt that your contempt for Ms. Kim is
genuine. It was to highlight the lengths you have continued this campaign.
(Now if I’m duped about the girlfriend part being legit, my point is
weakened…) I still bet you’d rather be stranded on a desert island with a
CD collection picked out by Jae-Ha than by Peter Margasak.

:::We have seen five people from the Sun-Times including Kim’s editor, Kim’s
officemate, and Kim herself posting to chi.media. Four of these people have
never posted to Usenet before, ever. Highly unusual.:::

Not really. As a longtime lurker and infrequent poster on chi.media, i can
attest – as Norman surely can – that most of this board is crap …
Stern/Mancow flame wars and infighting and spam galore. The many people unaware
of its existence haven’t been missing much.

My colleagues and I have been posting for some time on an AOL board about
the Sun-Times (conveniently set up in the Tribune’s Digital Cafe). Once alerted
to this Usenet exchange by Jakobsgrl, another regular there, we came by to look
and respond because we respect Jae and recognize her intelligence and can
report firsthand that her ability to write in breezy, accessible language is a
long way from airheadedness. None of these testimonials came at the behest of
Jae (who actually is pretty mortified by all this), and anyone who suggests
otherwise is delusional.

Oh, and Jae has not written six or seven books. Jakobsgrl is cool, but on
that point her facts were off.

:::I think it’s remarkable that two different individuals would both come out
of the void on the same day and never post about anything except Jae-Ha Kim.
Quite a coincidence, don’t you think?:::

I confess. Not only am I Jakob’sGrl, but I’m also Norman Nitman. I love the
attention all you sock puppets are showering on me so I decided to spend all my
time getting multiple internet accounts as well as AOL where–as I accused
myself on a witty earlier post–I can have up to **5** different screenames! So
I’ll come clean and also admit that I’m Djevens, KEVVWILL, Scoopbey, JAEHAKIM
and everyone else on AOL. Hell, I’m also jkim@lucent, millerjNOSPAM andju…@ripco.com. As for the Chicago Reader, which has printed several letters I
have written to the editor, and the Sun-Times, where I’ve received
correspondence from Nigel Wade, boy, I sure pulled one over on them too. They
didn’t realize when they called to verify my name and address that I’m all of
these people AND MORE! I’ll be back to post more for sure. I’m not sure which
screenname I’m going to use next, but you can bet that I’ll be steering you
towards my dope Nixon web site. Tricky Dicky rules.

From Evan (pronounced “norman”)
Evan Degnen

p.s. I’d add my comments about Angela Miles but, as I pointed out to myself
earlier, I never post about anyone except Jae-Ha Kim…and me, Norman, of
course. So can someone “flame” me (as I’m fond of saying) so I can come up with
another weak argument against myself? Please?
Evan (Norman, to those in the know)

you asked me not to send you email any more so i won’t. instead i’ll
post these comments publicly:

for the past 1 month+ you’ve continued a steady stream of jae-ha kim
related attacks (over an expanding number of newsgroups), including
emailing her directly to bring her into this whole mess. the thing
that i really starting to get me angry (not to speak for anyone else)
is that it appears to me that you’re clearly trying to bully her.
but you’re completely full of shit.

the fact that you seem to want to spend so much time in this effort
suggests to me that you haven’t done much with your life. maybe
you’re not a failed television personality: you’re just a failed
person, period.

it’s not jae-ha’s fault that you are apparently a total failure in
your own life, and you can’t fault her for trying to do something
with her own life so that she doesn’t end up the same way.

SO STOP THIS POSTING NONSENSE ALREADY! it’s tiring, stupid, and it’s
just not fair…

And i have something for you: Stop cross-posting fuckwit, its annoying
and nobody knows what-the-fuck you`re spewing on about.
If you`ve got something to say, say it in the relevant NG and give us
all some peace from your mind-numbing, cl00less drivel.
Thanks (for nothing)

Norman Nitman wrote:
>
> ronald h. davis wrote:
> >
> >for the past 1 month+ you’ve continued a steady stream of jae-ha kim
> >related attacks (over an expanding number of newsgroups), including
> >emailing her directly to bring her into this whole mess. the thing
> >that is really starting to get me angry (not to speak for anyone else)

> >is that it appears to me that you’re clearly trying to bully her.
> >but you’re completely full of shit.
> >
>
> You have my permission to be angry. I would point out to you that
> almost everything I’ve posted has been in response to flames directed
> at me. Perhaps you’ll figure out the pattern eventually.
>
put emphasis on the “almost”. are you saying that you’ve been posting
about kim being a bimbo (along with the veritable fuscillade of other
insults that you’ve directed towards her that you’ve posted over the
past month) in response to flames directed towards you? if you’re
saying that she flamed you, when did this happen? if you’re saying
that other people flamed you then why are you flaming her in response?

like i said norman, you’re just full of shit.

[stuff deleted]

> >it’s not jae-ha’s fault that you are apparently a total failure in
> >your own life, and you can’t fault her for trying to do something
> >with her own life so that she doesn’t end up the same way.
>
> I’m not a failure by any metric, but I’m curious to know how you would
> measure success or failure.
>
i think emerson was right when he said “man’s life is a progress and
not a destination” so i don’t know if there is really any such thing
as “being a success”. but i do think that i know how to recognize a
failure, and if you go back and reread my post, you might be able to
figure out how i identify one.

—
__ ______ __ / __/ |
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/ .
it’s gonna be some stuff you’re gonna see
that’s gonna make it hard to smile in the future
but through whatever you see,
through all the rain, and the pain,
you gotta keep your sense of humor,
you gotta be able to smile through all this…
so keep your head up
-tupac shakur

Yes, chi.media got bare knuckled when Jae-Ha Kim’s brother launched that
incendiary post “My Sister’s On TV!” We all cowered, but Norman Nihman
rose to the challenge – a snide remark here, a slur there, but little did we
know the depths that the dark forces of the media conspiracy would go –
friend and coworkers of the slurred individuals invaded chi.media to come to
her defense. But our Norman dug in with dejanews searches to uncover the
conspiracy. Then, inspired by Linda Tripp (or, more likely, Nixon’s spy
Lucianne Goldberg), he went into the enemy camp and got AOL user profiles on
his enemies. “TAKE THAT, TEENYBOPPER!” came firing from Norm, like a good
guy wrestler who refuses to tap out. Thanks to Norman Nitman, people will
think twice before plugging their sister on chi.media again.

>>it seems like the online Sun-Timers are so eager for attention that the situation is reversed!

And it seems this thread has pretty well played itself out. I have to
figure everyone by now has decided whether to join Norman’s elite hate club or
to take the word of many colleagues and readers that Jae is capable or, at
worst, harmless.

As apparently the last Sun-Timesman (that’s the term Kup uses, however
sexist) willing to indulge this unnecessary exchange, I’m ready to bail. If
Norman keeps flaming to goad everyone back, it’ll be pretty clear who’s eager
for attention.

During Norman Nitman’s recent tirade against Jae-Ha Kim, one poster
ridiculed her description of Swervedriver as “psychedelic.” I couldn’t help
remembering that as I read today’s Tribune review of their new EP “99th
Dream” “The overall sound is more dreamy than crazed. The Seven-minute
‘Electric 88’ inflates into a lovely kaleidoscopic dreamscape.” Sounds
pretty psychedelic to me…

JakobsGrl wrote:
>
> >BTW, is Jae-Ha still on TV, or is she just taking an extended vacation?
>
> Still keeping tabs on her, huh? Wow. I’ve seen her on the morning news show.
> You can, too.
>
sounds like jae-ha has gotten a few fans out of the exchanges that have
occurred over this newsgroup.

but speaking of morning news programs, that reminds me of another person
that you can see on the WGN-TV MORNING NEWS program: the absolutely
fabulous ANGELA MILES. so don’t forget to tune in to WGN-TV MORNING
NEWS!!!

why, i was just thinking this evening: when i think about my
comparatively meager quotidian existence, i can’t help but wonder what
it must be like to live a fabulous life. sigh, but it was not my lot
to live the fabulous life. fortunately there are people like the
absolutely fabulous angela miles who give people such as myself
a glimpse, at least vicariously, into a lifestyle considerably more
interesting and exciting than most of us would ever see in our own
lives.

i suppose that up to now i have been in the “defender” camp as far as
the kim exchanges in this newsgroup have gone: mostly because norman
has been so unfair in his criticisms of her. however, now that she is
on the morning news on a competing station at the same time as is the
fabulous angela miles, i shudder to think of the possibility that a
discussion thread could arise comparing jae-ha kim and the absolutely
fabulous angela miles. i hope that such does not occur, but if it
does i must join forces with norman in such case: not that i have any
personal grievance with ms. kim at all, but nothing, or no comment
must be allowed to calumniate, indirectly or otherwise, the absolute
fabulousness of angela miles.

: >posting this to “alt.fan.richard-nixon”?! I’d say that puts you in a
: >kinship of sorts with Ken Starr, who thinks Monica Lewinsky has something to
: >do Whitewater…
: I figured you’d try and twist this around. Better luck next time.

Haven’t read a comeback this strong since “gotta love it!” Maybe next thread you can tie Jae-Ha to Thomas Sowell too.

Justified Elder of Mu Mu wrote:
>
> Any interest in a chi.media day at New Comiskey? (Shouldn’t be hard finding
> a section to meet in). Please post any interest/ideas.
>

here’s an idea: get jae-ha kim and norman nitman to show up for this
thing – that exchange might be more interesting to watch than the
ballgame.

—
__ ______ __ / __/ |
_/ (_(_) / (_(_/_/_(_/ .
for there are many great deeds in the small struggles of life.
life, misfortune, isolation, abandonment, poverty, are
battlefields which have their heros; obscure heros, sometimes
greater than the illustrious heros.
-victor hugo

Good lord. Your brother tries to tout you a bit and a jackass or two has to chime in with their useless shit. like the commenter above, some of these poor excuses for men sound incredibly jealous and petty. Are you sure it wasn’t Wyman posting as different people?

This had me laughing for a good 15 minutes. Thank you for sharing this! Well it’s clear that some people just had too much time on their hands. NN just had to have the last word in everything and obviously got off on all the attention. His little hissy fit didn’t seem to work. You were on the station for quite a while if I remember. I loved the rapport you had with Bob and Marianne. Bruce Wolf seemed smarmy and was a jackass most of the time. Glad to see that you’re career has flourished. Alright alright alright.

It took me a long time to digest this thread and even longer to figure out why it made me so angry. I realized that it’s for several things. Yes, a couple of the men posting were obnoxious and throwing “flames.” (My god, I haven’t heard that in a while. It takes me back…) But what I’ve realized is the sexism — overt and otherwise — is rampant pretty much across the board. The two sockpuppets (hahaha) spewing the worst about Ms. Kim can’t claim any reason to malign her other than that they don’t like what she wrote. Boo hoo. That’s why she’s a bimbo? Neither of these men criticized her colleagues for reviewing a concert and listing a dead musician as having been on stage. (Now that’s a show I would’ve liked to have seen.) I’m sure they would’ve written that off as an honest mistake.

Almost most problematic are some of the men speaking in her defense, debating the degrees of stupid that she may or may not be. I highly doubt she was “mortified” that some idiots were saying stupid things about her. This is a grown up woman who has talked about home truly mortifying things that happened to her family. I doubt that she lost any sleep over a couple of wankers talking trash about her.

I think you’re brave. Me, not so much, or I would have been a published writer by now. I can’t handle the criticism. It’s interesting: you learned/grew/conquered in spite of or because of the early racism you experienced. I was bullied as a child for being different. It made me stronger in some areas, yet cowardly in other ways.

I’m glad you continued to write, because I enjoy reading all of your posts. Thanks for being brave.

There’s a big difference between mistaking what a reporter covers for what he or she wants to cover. The newsroom in my era was very sexist, with men being assigned meatier stories than the women. Did Kim cover the Spice Girls because she wanted to, or because someone thought she’d be good at covering that band? There’s a big difference that ol’ Norm doesn’t seem to understand.

I always imagine the “negative trollers” as middle aged men sitting in their parent’s basement in their underwear making uneducated asinine comments as their “Lifes work”. I think Norm’s still there in said basement.

You’ve got an awesome brother, you’re an incredibly talented and gifted writer, and you rock! You simply rock! As for those cretins who took such joy in mocking you…I doubt they convinced anyone they were right. Actually they convinced me that they were idiots.

I don’t really get it. They don’t like a writing style and peg in on the fact that you’re a woman so therefore you must be a bimbo? What the hell? Talk about a lack of critical thinking. That Nitman fucker didn’t even back his claims up with anything other than the fact that he didn’t like you. Judging by his writing style, I’ve decided I don’t like him and therefore he is an asshole.