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Shameless distraction. Finally a CT about LV that makes sense: patsy.

Submitted by arendt on Mon, 10/09/2017 - 2:08pm

I could rationalize wasting everyone's time with this MSM-fed waste of time; but I won't bother. I confess. I couldn't stay away from so much CT in one place. So, here, direct from MoonOfAlabama is the most intelligent discussion I have seen about this bizarre event.

I am weak and guilty of backsliding. Mea Culpa. If you want to not give in to temptation, this is your last chance.

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Here's the most succinct statement of the CT I could find among the comments. Remember, this is CT land, with everyone bringing in the craziest coincidences and symbols as "proof".

The hypothesis is that those involved were actually FBI agents who were engaged in a gun running scheme...But obviously things unfortunately didn’t go as planned. Such stings are very often used to draw out buyers who are then arrested.

“Stephen Paddock was, must have been, an undercover FBI agent or more likely a civilian willing participant, more than just an informant, probably was the point man for many stings and he'd done it before. His participation was a perfect cover as a 'high roller', for multiple illegal arms deals in the Las Vegas area in a gun running entrapment scheme very similar to 'Fast and Furious'.

My theory goes Paddock thought he was engaging in another routine arms entrapment, but ISIS operatives who were going to meet him learned, or were tipped off, about the entrapment scheme and Paddock’s true identity.

They instantly killed him in his room and carried out the massacre partly from
His room and a 4th floor room they must have had, and then fled the scene.”

It’s entirely possible that this was a gun-running scheme gone wrong because of the sheer quantity of guns found in Paddock's room and home; nearly a hundred.

Of course, this theory has the same gigantic hole as the original: motive. If it was an arms deal gone bad, why perpetrate the biggest massacre in US history, instead of bailing out before the FBI surveillance net came down on Paddock's room like a ton of bricks?

So, I only buy the "arms dealing" part of that CT.

I want to add to that another theory I read elsewhere (more confessing. I have sinned many times.) That theory is that the casinos let him "win" that much money because he was really laundering money. That is, he comes in with $10M of "hot" money; loses $5M, and gets a phony invoice from the casino saying he "won" $5M. Everyone happy. Casino gets $5M for free. Sponsors of laundering get their money laundered. Shooter/patsy gets all or some of the declared $5M.

The laundering theory plays well with the gun-running theory. People want to spend dirty money to buy guns for some terrorists somewhere. What better place to do that than casino town, where gun laws are as lax as they come.

Back to MoA:

Without going to any length in search of information, what is reported generally is enough to leave very simple questions The man had way in excess of necessity in arsenal in his hotel suite. For the purpose of what he is reported to have done the inventory of weapons do not match the supposedly well planned activity. Motive is not the interesting question since they can not be answered by someone who is dead. But his contacts, handlers, employers probably have a very good idea. So someone who is laundering millions and has an inventory of guns (collectors have higher profiles and more variety in their collections and do not lug them around in explosive filled vehicles)is a complete unknown to the state?

What makes most sense to me so far is that Paddock was some kind of deep state asset, involved with gun traffic and money laundering. In this particular situation, it seems, he became basically a patsy for what looks like a large scale attack on the US population, by unknown parties, presumably to include ISIS and the Deep State in some kind of configuration. The Las Vegas massacre looks almost like a military assault, involving multiple shooters, complete with diversions on the side and triangulation on the main site.

To the topic of motivation: I think Paddock's motivations are likely irrelevant as he was probably a bit player in this event. The actual motivations are probably complex and even contradictory. Basically I think the intent behind this massacre has to do with pushing folks towards accepting a deepening police state. Gun control is one goal of that push, as it means disarming the civilian population, but I'd say it is not necessarily even the most important part. Viewed in a larger context, the Las Vegas massacre also feels like a prelude to some even more devastating event, such as a large scale global war.

And this theory, that he was an unsuspecting patsy, doesn't fit with him sending the girlfriend away, gifting her lots of money. It only makes sense if the Deep State had him by the short and curlies, and he knew he was a patsy long before the event; but the alternative to running was worse.

As you can see, all this CT with so little facts is nothing but an endless parlor game of whodunit and why.

Of course, the absolutely minimal amount of video from the massively surveilled Vegas venues, plus the cellphone cameras of 20k attendees is pretty fishy. Sure, video of the shooter from 400 yards away in the dark would be hard to get. (Although, no one on the ground below the window noticed the 10+ minutes the guy was shooting off automatic weapons and took a video?) As for the concert venue, just statistically, someone should have a video of people being hit by highly kinetic rounds - rounds that should have spun them around and/or pulped pieces of their bodies.

The lack of video really bothers me. And, it gives an opening to all the CT nutbags who say the whole event was fake, even the casualties.

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Topics I will not discuss: crisis actors, lack of blood, lack of further deaths among hospitalized victims, any resemblance of the scenario to the Boston Marathon CTs.

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Anyway, I now have my CT of choice. I can hold up my end of the conversation at innumerable parties. Of course telling this CT to civilians will get me branded as a nutjob. But, most of my friends already know that.

Comments

Just a 'nut' with a gun...
Deep state has a history of using real or paper trail fake crazy people. Can you say "plausible deniability"? i met a guy that worked in Libya back in the day. He said he was CIA and crazy (and had the papers to prove it).

Just a 'nut' with a gun...
Deep state has a history of using real or paper trail fake crazy people. Can you say "plausible deniability"? i met a guy that worked in Libya back in the day. He said he was CIA and crazy (and had the papers to prove it).

at the same time in a nearby location. Who's going to notice a few extra bodies arriving in the ER amid the chaos and carnage of a mass shooting such as this. It was a Lone Wolf mad shooter that did it all, no need for any lengthy investigation of the victims. No, the Patsy theory works just fine for an operation such as this.

Would this fit with the bits of information that have been made available, and even more importantly, with the information we don't have?

Kill everyone in the train car to hide the fact your real goal was to kill only one.

I think the high profile of the result is over the top for this being camoflauge killing.

at the same time in a nearby location. Who's going to notice a few extra bodies arriving in the ER amid the chaos and carnage of a mass shooting such as this. It was a Lone Wolf mad shooter that did it all, no need for any lengthy investigation of the victims. No, the Patsy theory works just fine for an operation such as this.

Would this fit with the bits of information that have been made available, and even more importantly, with the information we don't have?

@arendt
A barbarous crime to be sure, one which we don't expect to see here in the land of the free, but not all that different than black ops that have brought down governments around the world. It can happen here. It is a possibility very different from any Agatha Christie novel I ever read.

Remember, if we are afraid we are compliant. That's essential for deep state interests to flourish.

(You did mean this to be a deep dive into the world of unsubstantiated CT, or did I misread your intent?)

several targets...not all that different than black ops that have brought down governments around the world.

CT or not, you need to fill in a few more details. Who or what might these targets be? How would killing them bring down a government? Which government?

I just don't understand what your scenario is, who your victims are.

#2.1
A barbarous crime to be sure, one which we don't expect to see here in the land of the free, but not all that different than black ops that have brought down governments around the world. It can happen here. It is a possibility very different from any Agatha Christie novel I ever read.

Remember, if we are afraid we are compliant. That's essential for deep state interests to flourish.

(You did mean this to be a deep dive into the world of unsubstantiated CT, or did I misread your intent?)

@arendt
This CT definitely not ready for prime time, even here. I'll try to put something together in a day or two but it will require some familiarity with Awan spy ring investigations on your part in order to make any sense. Lots of big leaps in it, but at least it does point to a very clear motive, something which the Lone Wolf theory is entirely lacking. PM me if you're interested.

@arendt
investigation videos which includes a summary statement and 15 highlighted videos out of the preceding 354 days worth of investigative videos. This should be useful for getting an overview of where the investigation has been and where it's heading. It's a complex and extremely troubling web of corruption that is in the process of being exposed.

@ovals49
Bastard (allegedly) offed his ex-wife. She went missing just hours before the storm hit. If he had been able to do it during the storm, (hell, it lasted damn near a week) he probably would've gotten away with it, especially since it took so long to finally find her.

at the same time in a nearby location. Who's going to notice a few extra bodies arriving in the ER amid the chaos and carnage of a mass shooting such as this. It was a Lone Wolf mad shooter that did it all, no need for any lengthy investigation of the victims. No, the Patsy theory works just fine for an operation such as this.

Would this fit with the bits of information that have been made available, and even more importantly, with the information we don't have?

Which he are you referring to? In any event, it's not ringing any bells for me.

#2
Bastard (allegedly) offed his ex-wife. She went missing just hours before the storm hit. If he had been able to do it during the storm, (hell, it lasted damn near a week) he probably would've gotten away with it, especially since it took so long to finally find her.

@ovals49
a local Houston man who killed his wife hours before hurricane Harvey, and if he had done it during the storm she likely would have been seen as another of Harvey's victims, not a murderous ex husband's. You referred to the possible cover up of targeted people being included in Paddock's body count.

at the same time in a nearby location. Who's going to notice a few extra bodies arriving in the ER amid the chaos and carnage of a mass shooting such as this. It was a Lone Wolf mad shooter that did it all, no need for any lengthy investigation of the victims. No, the Patsy theory works just fine for an operation such as this.

Would this fit with the bits of information that have been made available, and even more importantly, with the information we don't have?

That's why there is all this CT. Where is the footage of the perp coming and going with all the guns? Where is the footage of the security guard in the hall getting shot? Where is the footage of the lobby during the shooting? - you might think people would be running around or checking their cell phones or hiding under sofas.

Where is the audio recording of security staff taking 72 minutes to find the guys room?

The lack of surveilance video and audio in one of the most heavily surveiled places on earth is driving the CT - because it smells fishy.

Where is the cam footage showing all these ISIS guys who would have been in the room. Not buying it, but it would make a good movie plot.

The sherif who gave an interview about cameras having been setup in the room indicated that the FBI took them all. Presumably the surveillance camera footage is also in their hands. The FBI must have some very compelling reason to need to totally control it. The question remains, what reason would that be?

That's why there is all this CT. Where is the footage of the perp coming and going with all the guns? Where is the footage of the security guard in the hall getting shot? Where is the footage of the lobby during the shooting? - you might think people would be running around or checking their cell phones or hiding under sofas.

Where is the audio recording of security staff taking 72 minutes to find the guys room?

The lack of surveilance video and audio in one of the most heavily surveiled places on earth is driving the CT - because it smells fishy.

The sherif who gave an interview about cameras having been setup in the room indicated that the FBI took them all. Presumably the surveillance camera footage is also in their hands. The FBI must have some very compelling reason to need to totally control it. The question remains, what reason would that be?

Whose life was saved by the first security guard who got shot at 3-4 times. The story keeps changing and this is why so many people are questioning the whole premise of the shooting.

The biggest story that is easily disproved is that the gun man used tracers to make sure his shots were accurate. There are many videos from people who were at the concert and not one shows that tracers were used.

The sherif who gave an interview about cameras having been setup in the room indicated that the FBI took them all. Presumably the surveillance camera footage is also in their hands. The FBI must have some very compelling reason to need to totally control it. The question remains, what reason would that be?

A taxi driver was in front of the hotel and videotaping during the time of the shooting and she showed people who were outside the hotel acting like nothing was happening. They may not have heard the shots because of the noise of Vegas and slot machines.

In this article there is a video that was taken by a person who was at the concert. In it you can hear that guns shots came from different directions., this is why people are saying that this could be a false flag event.
This website has been covering all of the event, but more importantly, the changing story by the authorities.
This is her video:

That's why there is all this CT. Where is the footage of the perp coming and going with all the guns? Where is the footage of the security guard in the hall getting shot? Where is the footage of the lobby during the shooting? - you might think people would be running around or checking their cell phones or hiding under sofas.

Where is the audio recording of security staff taking 72 minutes to find the guys room?

The lack of surveilance video and audio in one of the most heavily surveiled places on earth is driving the CT - because it smells fishy.

up

2 users have voted.

—

You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and giving you shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. Doh!

Thanks! It's very obvious that the whole set-up stinks of something - it's just hard to figure out of what exactly, especially with what also seems like confusion strategies being carried out by corporate media and their ever-changing stories.

A taxi driver was in front of the hotel and videotaping during the time of the shooting and she showed people who were outside the hotel acting like nothing was happening. They may not have heard the shots because of the noise of Vegas and slot machines.

In this article there is a video that was taken by a person who was at the concert. In it you can hear that guns shots came from different directions., this is why people are saying that this could be a false flag event.
This website has been covering all of the event, but more importantly, the changing story by the authorities.
This is her video:

up

1 user has voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

found a lot of stuff about this fascinating. A report on 4chan that predicted something going down that would benefit Chertoff and give him a market for the scanners like they had at the airports that he could see to casinos and even schools. On the right they think it is a false flag to justify taking away their guns. I think this action will only increase sales of guns and increase NRA's reach but I somehow doubt the NRA was behind this. For the simple reason that it would not benefit a LEFT leaning outfit! or ideas.

But there was one excited guy who claimed with some justification the latest video that CNN breathlessly offered also refuted the claim about the shooter in the window in the corner. Several times the hotel came into view - the same hotel and the same area that the windows which were blown out in subssequent films - showed no flashes coming out of the window when the shots are heard and the window looks intact.

@Craig234
For example, the Kennedy assassination - If Oswald did it he had to have done an impossible shot (i knew a master markswoman who went to the room Oswald used and said the shot was "impossible") with a ridiculous weapon, and was immediately apprehended and himself murdered. Or someone else was the real shooter. KISS.
The LV theory that is easiest is that there was 1 shooter, and he did it because of some sort of personal reason. The only question was how he smuggled like two dozen rifles into a hotel room without being caught. This could be explained by simple incompetence combined with the fundamental uniqueness of the situation. Who - prior to the event - would consider that a mature man (53?) would be hauling a suitcase full of rifles several times over three days? Why would anyone notice that one of hundreds of people would be carrying a large suitcase or similar package, even if he did it again and again? The contradictions in the story could easily be from the unreliability of any story in its early stages, people speculate, people try to make sense out of several partial - and incompetent (I was too busy to count shots, I was looking for a place to hide, not looking for muzzle flashes, etc.) - witness accounts. etc.
I don't like a CT for this one.

I think it's very likely the guy did it alone for his own twisted reasons, period.

They do say they're looking for one possible accomplice in days before the shooting.

Conspiracy theories should be treated seriously, meaning rigorously, and important if they happen.

Treating them as a contest for who can be entertaining and implausible makes any real conspiracy that much less important.

@doh1304
I've looked at the JFK assassination thoroughly, and don't have a conclusion - strong cases can be made for conspiracy and against.

It's appalling there is so little factual consensus on the basic assassination - number of shots, direction of shots, the windshield, the wounds...

I don't see any difficulty in this guy getting the guns to his room - bring luggage repeated trips in a major hotel.

#5
For example, the Kennedy assassination - If Oswald did it he had to have done an impossible shot (i knew a master markswoman who went to the room Oswald used and said the shot was "impossible") with a ridiculous weapon, and was immediately apprehended and himself murdered. Or someone else was the real shooter. KISS.
The LV theory that is easiest is that there was 1 shooter, and he did it because of some sort of personal reason. The only question was how he smuggled like two dozen rifles into a hotel room without being caught. This could be explained by simple incompetence combined with the fundamental uniqueness of the situation. Who - prior to the event - would consider that a mature man (53?) would be hauling a suitcase full of rifles several times over three days? Why would anyone notice that one of hundreds of people would be carrying a large suitcase or similar package, even if he did it again and again? The contradictions in the story could easily be from the unreliability of any story in its early stages, people speculate, people try to make sense out of several partial - and incompetent (I was too busy to count shots, I was looking for a place to hide, not looking for muzzle flashes, etc.) - witness accounts. etc.
I don't like a CT for this one.

"nearly a hundred guns" - The number seems to be 47 and hasn't changed in a while now, that's nowhere near 100. It sounds more like an out of control hobby rather than a gun running operation.

"do not lug them around in explosive filled vehicles" - The explosive in question is tannerite, which is ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminium. Until the chemicals are mixed they are not dangerous, you can legally ship it through the mail. He had enough to destroy his car and damage surrounding cars (and pedestrians). I'm curious as to whether he had a shot at this car from his room (line of sight), whether he had mixed the chemicals, and where they were stored (he wouldn't have been likely to hit it in the trunk, but maybe it was in the back seat). It could have been a plan that he didn't pursue, it might have been an option if the police rolled in and he wanted a distraction. Again, looking for more information.

The idea of him being a patsy seems plausible, but for what? If others were killed, how did they end up in the emergency room? Not by ambulance or police report, that would flag the location of the murders. False flag for what? All that was accomplished was to occupy the news cycle for a couple of days, seems a bit extreme for that.

Lack of video and lack of released video aren't the same thing. They probably have plenty of stuff they haven't shown us yet.

And, of course, the big thing. I want to know how many spent brass they recovered from the hotel room.

I'm waiting for more evidence before I entertain any of these colorful scenarios.

And I want a core of direct affirmative evidence before I will do so, too.

Motive, means, opportunity. The problem here is that means and opportunity are abundant; yet motive remains unknown. And until we unwashed masses are allowed a look at a credible motive, nothing else can be made to make sense.

before I entertain any of these colorful scenarios.

"nearly a hundred guns" - The number seems to be 47 and hasn't changed in a while now, that's nowhere near 100. It sounds more like an out of control hobby rather than a gun running operation.

"do not lug them around in explosive filled vehicles" - The explosive in question is tannerite, which is ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminium. Until the chemicals are mixed they are not dangerous, you can legally ship it through the mail. He had enough to destroy his car and damage surrounding cars (and pedestrians). I'm curious as to whether he had a shot at this car from his room (line of sight), whether he had mixed the chemicals, and where they were stored (he wouldn't have been likely to hit it in the trunk, but maybe it was in the back seat). It could have been a plan that he didn't pursue, it might have been an option if the police rolled in and he wanted a distraction. Again, looking for more information.

The idea of him being a patsy seems plausible, but for what? If others were killed, how did they end up in the emergency room? Not by ambulance or police report, that would flag the location of the murders. False flag for what? All that was accomplished was to occupy the news cycle for a couple of days, seems a bit extreme for that.

Lack of video and lack of released video aren't the same thing. They probably have plenty of stuff they haven't shown us yet.

And, of course, the big thing. I want to know how many spent brass they recovered from the hotel room.

up

12 users have voted.

—

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

has interesting takes. First, I do like that their home page links to claims they are: a CIA operation; a KGB (now SVR) Op; a cult of Jewish women going back centuries; a group of Russian nuns on the same timeline. Gotta love them for that.
Anyway, they say Putin made gambling illegal; the Russian mob moved to and took over Vegas (with CIA help); altogether with the shooter they were smuggling weapons to jihadis plus laundering money and then Trump (and Sorcha Faal does like him) had the top mob guys busted. The result was retaliation.
Who knows?

I hate the style of most CT sites, and the dragging in of everything back to JFK any time anything happens.

Nevertheless, there was some really interesting (or merely crazy, but very entertaining) ideas to be found there regarding the motive for the LV massacre. (NOTE: I either love you or hate you for pointing me at that site. Don't know which yet. )

The biggest one being that there is a secret war between the CIA+Russian mob and the FBI/Trump/?Mossad?. I had to laugh out loud at that one. The FBI/CIA feud is immortal and true. But Trump, he couldn't find his ass with both hands. OTOH, he was mentored by Roy Cohn and has ties to the Mafia. Still, the idea of some intelligence agency war is not completely out of the realm of possiblity. But, this massacre was "sending a message"? I would need a bottle of gin to even begin to think that was rational.

The really interesting thing in the S.F. stuff was the idea that Paddock's father was a CIA guy. This is where "going back to JFK" was actually relevant. Apparently, Paddock's dad worked for Sam Giancana of CIA/Judith Exner/JFK infamy. And, P. Sr. avoided an FBI dragnet for ten years. Then got out of jail by paying about $750k to settle some claims or fines. Unbelievable, if it is true. I want to try for some independent confirmation about P. Sr.

The idea that P. Jr. could have also been an operative is not unbelievable. The idea that his jobs at the Post Office and IRS could have been cover is very believable. Where S.F. goes off the rails is to claim he was a gun-running pilot for the CIA in Mexico and Afghanistan. Evidence, please. OTOH, if he was, then his money is perfectly explainable. He is another version of Barry Seal. I'm going to check the Mad Cow website to see if Hopsicker has anything to say about LV.

has interesting takes. First, I do like that their home page links to claims they are: a CIA operation; a KGB (now SVR) Op; a cult of Jewish women going back centuries; a group of Russian nuns on the same timeline. Gotta love them for that.
Anyway, they say Putin made gambling illegal; the Russian mob moved to and took over Vegas (with CIA help); altogether with the shooter they were smuggling weapons to jihadis plus laundering money and then Trump (and Sorcha Faal does like him) had the top mob guys busted. The result was retaliation.
Who knows?

@arendt
and certainly takes you don't see anywhere. I think Rus Intel. Maybe an order of Jewish nuns working for them. Why not?
Certainly the US Intel / Ruling Class have their mortal enmenties among them. If Paddock fits in there someway, I don't know how we peasants would prove it given all the factions disinform.
That he flew.... How often and where?
And most seriously: yes everything goes back to JFK'S murder. That's the point when the Lunatic Secret Agents got to set the rules of the game.

I hate the style of most CT sites, and the dragging in of everything back to JFK any time anything happens.

Nevertheless, there was some really interesting (or merely crazy, but very entertaining) ideas to be found there regarding the motive for the LV massacre. (NOTE: I either love you or hate you for pointing me at that site. Don't know which yet. )

The biggest one being that there is a secret war between the CIA+Russian mob and the FBI/Trump/?Mossad?. I had to laugh out loud at that one. The FBI/CIA feud is immortal and true. But Trump, he couldn't find his ass with both hands. OTOH, he was mentored by Roy Cohn and has ties to the Mafia. Still, the idea of some intelligence agency war is not completely out of the realm of possiblity. But, this massacre was "sending a message"? I would need a bottle of gin to even begin to think that was rational.

The really interesting thing in the S.F. stuff was the idea that Paddock's father was a CIA guy. This is where "going back to JFK" was actually relevant. Apparently, Paddock's dad worked for Sam Giancana of CIA/Judith Exner/JFK infamy. And, P. Sr. avoided an FBI dragnet for ten years. Then got out of jail by paying about $750k to settle some claims or fines. Unbelievable, if it is true. I want to try for some independent confirmation about P. Sr.

The idea that P. Jr. could have also been an operative is not unbelievable. The idea that his jobs at the Post Office and IRS could have been cover is very believable. Where S.F. goes off the rails is to claim he was a gun-running pilot for the CIA in Mexico and Afghanistan. Evidence, please. OTOH, if he was, then his money is perfectly explainable. He is another version of Barry Seal. I'm going to check the Mad Cow website to see if Hopsicker has anything to say about LV.

A lot of stories about Paul Manafort's ties to some Mafiosi, some event Trump held with a lot of Russian mobsters.

So, according to Hopsicker, it seems, Trump is WITH the Russian mobsters, while the S.F. theory has him OPPOSED to them.

Ahhh, CT, it is insane.

I hate the style of most CT sites, and the dragging in of everything back to JFK any time anything happens.

Nevertheless, there was some really interesting (or merely crazy, but very entertaining) ideas to be found there regarding the motive for the LV massacre. (NOTE: I either love you or hate you for pointing me at that site. Don't know which yet. )

The biggest one being that there is a secret war between the CIA+Russian mob and the FBI/Trump/?Mossad?. I had to laugh out loud at that one. The FBI/CIA feud is immortal and true. But Trump, he couldn't find his ass with both hands. OTOH, he was mentored by Roy Cohn and has ties to the Mafia. Still, the idea of some intelligence agency war is not completely out of the realm of possiblity. But, this massacre was "sending a message"? I would need a bottle of gin to even begin to think that was rational.

The really interesting thing in the S.F. stuff was the idea that Paddock's father was a CIA guy. This is where "going back to JFK" was actually relevant. Apparently, Paddock's dad worked for Sam Giancana of CIA/Judith Exner/JFK infamy. And, P. Sr. avoided an FBI dragnet for ten years. Then got out of jail by paying about $750k to settle some claims or fines. Unbelievable, if it is true. I want to try for some independent confirmation about P. Sr.

The idea that P. Jr. could have also been an operative is not unbelievable. The idea that his jobs at the Post Office and IRS could have been cover is very believable. Where S.F. goes off the rails is to claim he was a gun-running pilot for the CIA in Mexico and Afghanistan. Evidence, please. OTOH, if he was, then his money is perfectly explainable. He is another version of Barry Seal. I'm going to check the Mad Cow website to see if Hopsicker has anything to say about LV.

This website has been covering the shooting and keeping track of all the different stories from the police.
Remember that we first heard that the shooter had been neutralized, then they said that he killed himself.
The security guard was killed when he went to his room, but apparently got better because then he helped police open his door. I doubt that they would have had a problem with kicking it open.

Next we hear that the shooter didn't have the experience to kill that many people so he used tracers even though no video of the shooting showed them.

The police were told that there was shooting coming from the 4th floor, then the 10th and then the 32nd because the smoke alarm went off, except it was the previously dead security guard that told them what room it was coming from.

Now apparently someone leaked the photos from his room. This is one of the "what's wrong with this picture?" games.

There is so much wrong with the blood patterns in this picture. It looks like there are two different blood patterns on the rug. The blood on his face makes no sense if he shot himself.
The rest you can read for yourself.
Then I suggest looking at the other articles on this.

One would think that they would get the story straight before it happened instead of all the different story lines.

up

13 users have voted.

—

You know you’re a peasant when you worship the very people who are right now, this minute, conning you and giving you shit. Whatever the master does, you’re on board. Doh!

This website has been covering the shooting and keeping track of all the different stories from the police.
Remember that we first heard that the shooter had been neutralized, then they said that he killed himself.
The security guard was killed when he went to his room, but apparently got better because then he helped police open his door. I doubt that they would have had a problem with kicking it open.

Next we hear that the shooter didn't have the experience to kill that many people so he used tracers even though no video of the shooting showed them.

The police were told that there was shooting coming from the 4th floor, then the 10th and then the 32nd because the smoke alarm went off, except it was the previously dead security guard that told them what room it was coming from.

Now apparently someone leaked the photos from his room. This is one of the "what's wrong with this picture?" games.

There is so much wrong with the blood patterns in this picture. It looks like there are two different blood patterns on the rug. The blood on his face makes no sense if he shot himself.
The rest you can read for yourself.
Then I suggest looking at the other articles on this.

One would think that they would get the story straight before it happened instead of all the different story lines.

@snoopydawg
"cryptic note" - cryptic, yet it seems to be some calculations on how the bullet drop would work. So, not so cryptic?
"multiple guns, so why not multiple shooters?" - I dunno, maybe because there was nobody else in the room? No other fingerprints (they haven't actually said that)? Where did the other shooters go? The fourth floor theory needs to explain why the windows weren't shot out.
"gun over leg" - seems a little odd. Still, maybe his foot slid to the side as his body relaxed after death.
"no blood on casings" - shoots himself while standing up, blood spray doesn't hit the floor for a few feet behind him. Falls, blood pools out under the casing. Nothing too strange there.
"cell phone charger doesn't match" - and today we had a Huffpost article about him employing a call girl. Maybe the girlfriend's charger? Hooker's charger? It will be interesting to hear who it belongs to.
"receipt for two" - sure. Call girl. Doesn't need to be a spook.

This website has been covering the shooting and keeping track of all the different stories from the police.
Remember that we first heard that the shooter had been neutralized, then they said that he killed himself.
The security guard was killed when he went to his room, but apparently got better because then he helped police open his door. I doubt that they would have had a problem with kicking it open.

Next we hear that the shooter didn't have the experience to kill that many people so he used tracers even though no video of the shooting showed them.

The police were told that there was shooting coming from the 4th floor, then the 10th and then the 32nd because the smoke alarm went off, except it was the previously dead security guard that told them what room it was coming from.

Now apparently someone leaked the photos from his room. This is one of the "what's wrong with this picture?" games.

There is so much wrong with the blood patterns in this picture. It looks like there are two different blood patterns on the rug. The blood on his face makes no sense if he shot himself.
The rest you can read for yourself.
Then I suggest looking at the other articles on this.

One would think that they would get the story straight before it happened instead of all the different story lines.

@WoodsDweller
to be proof that I've seen has an easier and more natural explanation. The thing that needs explaining is how come there's all these guns there. Did he think he'd go on shooting without interruption for a couple of days? I doubt that. Of course "crazy" covers a lot of oddities.

#8
"cryptic note" - cryptic, yet it seems to be some calculations on how the bullet drop would work. So, not so cryptic?
"multiple guns, so why not multiple shooters?" - I dunno, maybe because there was nobody else in the room? No other fingerprints (they haven't actually said that)? Where did the other shooters go? The fourth floor theory needs to explain why the windows weren't shot out.
"gun over leg" - seems a little odd. Still, maybe his foot slid to the side as his body relaxed after death.
"no blood on casings" - shoots himself while standing up, blood spray doesn't hit the floor for a few feet behind him. Falls, blood pools out under the casing. Nothing too strange there.
"cell phone charger doesn't match" - and today we had a Huffpost article about him employing a call girl. Maybe the girlfriend's charger? Hooker's charger? It will be interesting to hear who it belongs to.
"receipt for two" - sure. Call girl. Doesn't need to be a spook.

Maybe there's a point to all of the different and ever-changing stories, because then nobody has any idea what seems most probable and there are too many different stories floating around for any likely threads to be followed by most. Confusion strategy, coordinated with the corporate media?

I dunno, but I've got my speculators on and they keep me amused or at least distracted even during the most horrible incidents. Sure beats crying over spilt blood, which I have an annoying tendency to do, and which doesn't help anyone or anything at all. And there are a lot of horrible incidents going on all of the time...

This website has been covering the shooting and keeping track of all the different stories from the police.
Remember that we first heard that the shooter had been neutralized, then they said that he killed himself.
The security guard was killed when he went to his room, but apparently got better because then he helped police open his door. I doubt that they would have had a problem with kicking it open.

Next we hear that the shooter didn't have the experience to kill that many people so he used tracers even though no video of the shooting showed them.

The police were told that there was shooting coming from the 4th floor, then the 10th and then the 32nd because the smoke alarm went off, except it was the previously dead security guard that told them what room it was coming from.

Now apparently someone leaked the photos from his room. This is one of the "what's wrong with this picture?" games.

There is so much wrong with the blood patterns in this picture. It looks like there are two different blood patterns on the rug. The blood on his face makes no sense if he shot himself.
The rest you can read for yourself.
Then I suggest looking at the other articles on this.

One would think that they would get the story straight before it happened instead of all the different story lines.

up

1 user has voted.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

I cannot say what the motive was or even who (multiple) did it. But what I do believe is that there were multiple shooters. The taxi driver's video was the first one for me even though some folks here thought that there were echos. There was at least one echo on her video.

Then I happened on this video which was done by a sound engineer who analyzed the sounds from various videos. This man is not a gun expert, but he is a sound expert and his conclusion was that there was more than one shooter based upon the waveform analysis of the audios.

On a personal note, I have felt from the very beginning that this was a professional operation or a false flag. This was definitely not a lone amateur gunman and probably not even Steve Paddock who did this.

up

13 users have voted.

—

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStoptheMacedonianSignal

@gulfgal98
If it wasn't Paddock, it's not easy to see who WOULD do it, frame him, and not take credit.

The group that DID take credit - ISIL - claimed Paddock was their soldier, not framed.

I cannot say what the motive was or even who (multiple) did it. But what I do believe is that there were multiple shooters. The taxi driver's video was the first one for me even though some folks here thought that there were echos. There was at least one echo on her video.

Then I happened on this video which was done by a sound engineer who analyzed the sounds from various videos. This man is not a gun expert, but he is a sound expert and his conclusion was that there was more than one shooter based upon the waveform analysis of the audios.

On a personal note, I have felt from the very beginning that this was a professional operation or a false flag. This was definitely not a lone amateur gunman and probably not even Steve Paddock who did this.

Personally, if I was a multi-millionaire, I'd be enjoying life. (I wouldn't be hanging around in casinos, though.) I certainly wouldn't be planning to shoot myself, never mind randomly and psychotically kill/injure/terrorize a whole bunch of concert goers - unless he really hated country music and couldn't escape it in his room, of course.

The whole thing, as it's presented, seems so pointless and unlike the personality portrayed by those who knew him.

#10 If it wasn't Paddock, it's not easy to see who WOULD do it, frame him, and not take credit.

The group that DID take credit - ISIL - claimed Paddock was their soldier, not framed.

up

1 user has voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

"no sympathy for the Devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride... and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well, maybe chalk it up to forced consciousness expansion. Tune in, freak out, get beaten."

Guy's father is a notorious gangster with deep ties to Giancana crime family (i.e., CIA) and a bizarre story of ten years on the run followed by paying $750k to get charges dropped.

----

The motivation you give just walks away from all of that and says "shit happens". It is as fatalistic/resigned as "I stopped being surprised".

I guess TPTB have succeeded. By letting outrage after outrage happen without taking corrective action (e.g., gun laws, drone warfare) or punishing perps (e.g., out of control cops, murderous presidents), by letting violence just go uncontrolled, the conditioning of helplessness has succeeded.

"Nothing here to see. Move along."

I understand your feelings. They make me sad.

who thought it would be a real gas to take out a crowd.

I hope we will get to know why but we all know it's our culture that produced this person. I gave up being surprised after Sandy Hook.

Guy's father is a notorious gangster with deep ties to Giancana crime family (i.e., CIA) and a bizarre story of ten years on the run followed by paying $750k to get charges dropped.

----

The motivation you give just walks away from all of that and says "shit happens". It is as fatalistic/resigned as "I stopped being surprised".

I guess TPTB have succeeded. By letting outrage after outrage happen without taking corrective action (e.g., gun laws, drone warfare) or punishing perps (e.g., out of control cops, murderous presidents), by letting violence just go uncontrolled, the conditioning of helplessness has succeeded.

It didn't make me numb, anymore than our killing half a million Iraqi children in the 1990s did, anymore than our destroying Libya did, anymore than running a six year "civil war" in Syria. All those things involved destroying entire countries. So, when only one school in one town is deeply damaged, I think I can face that pain and continue to oppose the senseless violence that has become the face that the future will remember as end-of-empire America.

This violence just makes me angry and motivates me to express that anger in a non-violent way - like writing on boards like this.

#13.1
If Sandy Hook didn't make you numb to the pathetic state of our politics, I guess nothing will. Children executed and nothing was done. That makes me sad.

this a bit more then you can make up an even better story. Get a whole group of people on it. You might even be able to compete with the manifold narratives around who kill Kennedy.... On second thought maybe not. Heh!

But, I know that the official story is complete BS. Just like the 911 hijackers story - devout Moslems my ass. Just like the JFK story.

Just because I can't figure it out doesn't mean I shouldn't be aware that we are being fed BS 24/7 on ALL topics.

this a bit more then you can make up an even better story. Get a whole group of people on it. You might even be able to compete with the manifold narratives around who kill Kennedy.... On second thought maybe not. Heh!

@arendt
there is of course, a fog of uncertainty. The fog has been deliberately created and sustained by TPTB. However there can be no doubt whatsoever that they were all high-level conspiracies. And that extraordinary, illegal efforts have made by powerful government officials and law enforcement agencies to cover them up. And that none of the perpetrators have ever been prosecuted or even investigated for these crimes. That they continue to wield significant power, and influence over the course of national affairs is a near certainty.

They've been conditioned to recognize "the one enemy" in all its disguises - feminists, blacks, gays, globalists, jews, ... They just have to check in with hate radio to find who is the enemy this week.

So, the CT is that this rich, recluse, professional gambler(with a past that reads more like CIA sheep-dipping than any kind of leftwinger) is really a deep-cover leftwinger? That kind of tribalistic mindset that is impossible to reason with.

Great. TPTB have riled up both sides at once. The neanderthals blame it on the left. The "liberals" see it as another victory for the NRA.

And its on to Nov 4. I'm going to post myself a note not to leave the house.

@arendt@arendt
I then went and looked at the Antifa page for the event and it was a simple day of protest.

Of course the black bloc types are going to be there, but it's the same set up, physically -- bunch of people in one location milling about, and perhaps being kettled...

The crazytown "Communist" angle really jumped out at me. What do wingers do if commies are going to kill our freedom?

Anyway, probably an overactive imagination and far too many disparate connections made by my crazy mind, but I can't help but see connections like these. Blessing and a curse.@arendt

but that is how they think.

They've been conditioned to recognize "the one enemy" in all its disguises - feminists, blacks, gays, globalists, jews, ... They just have to check in with hate radio to find who is the enemy this week.

So, the CT is that this rich, recluse, professional gambler(with a past that reads more like CIA sheep-dipping than any kind of leftwinger) is really a deep-cover leftwinger? That kind of tribalistic mindset that is impossible to reason with.

Great. TPTB have riled up both sides at once. The neanderthals blame it on the left. The "liberals" see it as another victory for the NRA.

And its on to Nov 4. I'm going to post myself a note not to leave the house.

@k9disc
What is a finite individual to do when bombarded with the party line from the MSM and from all their captive little bloggers and columnists? I can't personally take the time and money to visit Charlottesville, or Vegas, much less get anywhere near Syria.

We used to believe the MSM, but they destroyed that credibility - different people gave up on it at different times in the past 50 years. But, by 2017, no one believes they say anything TPTB have not approved. 40 years ago, William Colby (who died mysteriously in a small fishing boat near his Maryland home) said:

The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media.

Predictably, as this inflammatory statement (which would have been characteristic of Colby, and which is consistent with the "Mighty Wurlitzer" quote about the CIA) gained circulation, it has been attacked as fabricated. The attack is on the literal statement, not on the sentiment expressed. That's how the disinformation game is played.

So, I feel your confusion when you say:

The crazytown "Communist" angle really jumped out at me. What do wingers do if commies are going to kill our freedom?

Anyway, probably an overactive imagination and far too many disparate connections made by my crazy mind, but I can't help but see connections like these. Blessing and a curse.

We are in exactly the box they want us in. Nobody has a strategic view of anything. The "fog of war" has been made the daily experience of every citizen trying to inform himself about the political system he is theoretically in charge of.

All one can do is to go with one's instincts, keeping in mind that one's instincts are the result of judgments we have made throughout our lives. Myself, I trust instincts that were formed BEFORE the complete prostitution of the media, say pre-1985-ish. (The internet PRIOR TO the WWW (Mosaic, 1993) also had some really good information. It was a closed little world of very smart, very secure people that had no commercial considerations at all. I'm not sure how far back in time the "wayback machine" goes, but I will check. I'm pretty sure I can get stuff that I wrote in the late 80s.)

IMHO, if the VWRC screaming about "commies" rings your alarm bell, go with it. Its how you feel. Don't apologize for it.

result of my understanding of the Right, their penchant for lashing out, and the mediascape and social situation that we are currently living in. The commie thing is the trigger that's making me think we're going to go there.

It just screams for some fucking gun nutter (or a state actor) to take matters into his or her own hands to "stop them from stealing our freedom".

I'm pretty good at social mapping and interpersonal activity, and this is screaming for some kind of ugly resolution.

Corporate has completely lost the handle on the population, and they responded by sowing confusion (2006ish). That sowing of confusion, not allowing the population to trust anything, is morphing into a "Fog of War", complete with existential threats to the American Way of Life.

We're looking at global war (7 active hot spots, 2 more that are nuclear) AND a civil war, and all we got is pointed confusion.

#15.1.1.1.1 What is a finite individual to do when bombarded with the party line from the MSM and from all their captive little bloggers and columnists? I can't personally take the time and money to visit Charlottesville, or Vegas, much less get anywhere near Syria.

We used to believe the MSM, but they destroyed that credibility - different people gave up on it at different times in the past 50 years. But, by 2017, no one believes they say anything TPTB have not approved. 40 years ago, William Colby (who died mysteriously in a small fishing boat near his Maryland home) said:

The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media.

Predictably, as this inflammatory statement (which would have been characteristic of Colby, and which is consistent with the "Mighty Wurlitzer" quote about the CIA) gained circulation, it has been attacked as fabricated. The attack is on the literal statement, not on the sentiment expressed. That's how the disinformation game is played.

So, I feel your confusion when you say:

The crazytown "Communist" angle really jumped out at me. What do wingers do if commies are going to kill our freedom?

Anyway, probably an overactive imagination and far too many disparate connections made by my crazy mind, but I can't help but see connections like these. Blessing and a curse.

We are in exactly the box they want us in. Nobody has a strategic view of anything. The "fog of war" has been made the daily experience of every citizen trying to inform himself about the political system he is theoretically in charge of.

All one can do is to go with one's instincts, keeping in mind that one's instincts are the result of judgments we have made throughout our lives. Myself, I trust instincts that were formed BEFORE the complete prostitution of the media, say pre-1985-ish. (The internet PRIOR TO the WWW (Mosaic, 1993) also had some really good information. It was a closed little world of very smart, very secure people that had no commercial considerations at all. I'm not sure how far back in time the "wayback machine" goes, but I will check. I'm pretty sure I can get stuff that I wrote in the late 80s.)

IMHO, if the VWRC screaming about "commies" rings your alarm bell, go with it. Its how you feel. Don't apologize for it.

It just screams for some fucking gun nutter (or a state actor) to take matters into his or her own hands to "stop them from stealing our freedom".

Yeah, its "stochastic terrorism". Broadcast the trigger phrase, and some segment of the lobotomized followers of Limbaugh/Hannity/{whoever it is today} will explode.

You saw the trigger phrase, and you are waiting for the incoming. Perfectly sensible. The phrase doesn't trigger YOU, it triggers the nutjobs.

result of my understanding of the Right, their penchant for lashing out, and the mediascape and social situation that we are currently living in. The commie thing is the trigger that's making me think we're going to go there.

It just screams for some fucking gun nutter (or a state actor) to take matters into his or her own hands to "stop them from stealing our freedom".

I'm pretty good at social mapping and interpersonal activity, and this is screaming for some kind of ugly resolution.

Corporate has completely lost the handle on the population, and they responded by sowing confusion (2006ish). That sowing of confusion, not allowing the population to trust anything, is morphing into a "Fog of War", complete with existential threats to the American Way of Life.

We're looking at global war (7 active hot spots, 2 more that are nuclear) AND a civil war, and all we got is pointed confusion.

And the country music concert was entirely filled with Antifa? Or do they suggest that 'God would have sorted it out' by guiding the bullets to those who 'deserved it', in some theological theory of life-or-death meritocracy? If it's goofy enough to be funny, I might check the site out.

Edit: sorry, misunderstood, make that 'And the country music concert was entirely filled with Commies to slaughter whom a brave multi-millionaire sacrificed himself, or with good upstanding citizens shot by Red!!! Russian!!! Cold War Soviet Union Commies!!!???' who also sacrificed himself to do it?

It makes no sense either way. Any call to attack/kill the 'Commie' Antifa protesters of Nazis sounds like something dreamed up by someone having an interest in 'civil war!!!' claims providing an excuse for martial law to be declared against the American people.

So I've been getting some memes crossing my FB feed on the "Civil War" that Antifa is supposed to start on Nov 4.

Try a search of Nov 4 Antifa.

Here's the CT -- LV was a roadmap for gun nutters to sacrifice themselves to protect the Republic from a "communist" takeover.

Gulp!

up

1 user has voted.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

The communists in the Antifa crowd are planning to begin a revolution in America on Saturday, November 4 — almost exactly 100 years after the Bolshevik Revolution that took Russia out of the frying pan of Tsarist rule and into the fire of communist totalitarianism. While some see Antifa activists as the modern heroes of anti-Fascism — fighting against racism, sexism, and a litany of other “isms” — and others see them merely as the snowflake crowd of spoiled brats demanding free everything, the reality is that Antifa is one tool in the communists' toolbox to bring America to her knees. And Saturday, November 4, 2017, is the day they have chosen for the opening salvo in the American Bolshevik Revolution.

Armed Antifa militants are planning to instigate a civil war in two months time in order to remove Donald Trump from the White House.

An armed Antifa group in Philadelphia, with support from the mainstream media, say they are planning a day of violent revolution on Nov. 4 2017, which will see lawmakers and police officers attacked with deadly weapons.

With left wing terrorist group AntFA funded by Nazi George Soros, the beatings of people has gone unreported and excused by the corrupt media. On November 4th of this year, the terrorist group AntiFA is planning a “civil war” and an “overturn” of government. AntiFA terrorists will team up with the The Revolutionary Communist Party and other far left terrorist organizations to instigate what they call civil war in November.

And the country music concert was entirely filled with Antifa? Or do they suggest that 'God would have sorted it out' by guiding the bullets to those who 'deserved it', in some theological theory of life-or-death meritocracy? If it's goofy enough to be funny, I might check the site out.

Edit: sorry, misunderstood, make that 'And the country music concert was entirely filled with Commies to slaughter whom a brave multi-millionaire sacrificed himself, or with good upstanding citizens shot by Red!!! Russian!!! Cold War Soviet Union Commies!!!???' who also sacrificed himself to do it?

It makes no sense either way. Any call to attack/kill the 'Commie' Antifa protesters of Nazis sounds like something dreamed up by someone having an interest in 'civil war!!!' claims providing an excuse for martial law to be declared against the American people.

Isn't police radio completely encrypted these days? Or is it a trivial encryption that a dedicated "scanner" can easily buy equipment to defeat?

Anyway:

The following timeline documents real and actual events which occurred on the night of Oct. 1, 2017, and the early morning of Oct. 2, and how they all unfolded contradicting the official narrative that only one shooter, a 64-year-old man by the name of Stephen Paddock, shot and killed 58 people during the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival.

@arendt
Wish I had a layout, with push-pins at each location they're radioing in about. But it looks like they were reporting different locations. Of course, the injured, and everyone else, had to move (or be moved) from where they were shot, or being shot at, to where they were able to be transported or be able to escape.

I'll keep reading.

Isn't police radio completely encrypted these days? Or is it a trivial encryption that a dedicated "scanner" can easily buy equipment to defeat?

Anyway:

The following timeline documents real and actual events which occurred on the night of Oct. 1, 2017, and the early morning of Oct. 2, and how they all unfolded contradicting the official narrative that only one shooter, a 64-year-old man by the name of Stephen Paddock, shot and killed 58 people during the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival.