This video caught my attention not because of its content, but also because it's one of the most watched Assyrian videos on YouTube. Anyway, the Chaldeans in this video use Arabic loanwords, sing Arabic music, they are shown writing Arabic and they even dress as Iraqis Arabs (very typical of them). Sure, they may be doing this lightheartedly, but this was an overkill, especially when they want to represent us (since "Assyrian" is in the title). To be brutally honestly, if all Chaldeans act this way then, by all means, they can stick with "Chaldean" to identify themselves for all I care.

These kinds of threads are very divisive. They are especially damaging considering how fragile we are right now. When we keep distinguishing people based on their churches, it will result in ethnic separatism.

Picking out tribes/churches and pointing fingers at them is one of the worst things we can do for our nation.

Those are assyrians m8,yet they dress like what people think of as being arab

And yet you're still continuing with your Arab propaganda. Display a dubious photo of "Assyrians" wearing Arab clothing in a church and therefore we're Arabs now. Lol.

Hate to burst your bubble, but they are Christian Arabs who happen to be in our church. Perhaps ex-Muslims who came to the church in order to be baptized and convert to Christianity. This always happens. We always share photos of such events.

Separatism in any form contributes to Assyrian segregation and subsequently causes us to be weaker.

Chaldeans are the ones separating themselves. The video sort of showed that. I am in no way intentionally separating them for us just for the sake of separation. Their actions are showing it and I'm like "carry on then, don't call yourself Assyrian". And it isn't just those in this video. Many Chaldeans act like that.

These kinds of threads are very divisive. They are especially damaging considering how fragile we are right now. When we keep distinguishing people based on their churches, it will result in ethnic separatism.

Picking out tribes/churches and pointing fingers at them is one of the worst things we can do for our nation.

Who is talking about churches? Watch the video. You really did not get my point.

They're doing the separation. Not myself. Many Chaldeans even go by the label of "Iraqi" above anything else. And when it's not "Iraqi", they call themselves "Chaldean". Last time I checked they're calling themselves Chaldeans. We're not giving them that name and "separating" them.

Your comment is reminiscent of those who say "Muslim, Christian, Jew, we're all human and we should stop pointing fingers". Obviously, we can point fingers when we find flaws and defects in some aspects of a culture, religion, etc. Let's not be politically correct.

Who is talking about churches? Watch the video. You really did not get my point.

They're doing the separation. Not myself. Many Chaldeans even go by the label of "Iraqi" above anything else. And when it's not "Iraqi", they call themselves "Chaldean". Last time I checked they're calling themselves Chaldeans. We're not giving them that name and "separating" them.

To address the Chaldean identity (a church identity) for what it is is necessary even if it might offend some separatists, but to make these kind of threads were you encourage division due to a lack of Assyrian culture/identity in fellow Catholic Assyrians, causes more harm than any good.

I understand that some Assyrians are losing touch with their identity and that many already have, but you need to animate the identity of all Assyrians as being united otherwise they will opt to exclude themselves if you paint them as outcasts.

If you want to shame Assyrians for assimilating into other cultures, by all means but do so without labeling them as being members of a particular Assyrian subgroup.

Except, I'm not talking about their church, nor separating them because of their church affiliation. Big difference.

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To address the Chaldean identity (a church identity) for what it is is necessary even if it might offend some separatists, but to make these kind of threads were you encourage division due to a lack of Assyrian culture/identity in fellow Catholic Assyrians, causes more harm than any good.

I am just saying it how it is. They should expect these sort of criticisms. I don't see how it's causing more harm than good. At the end of the day, I wasn't criticizing the Assyrian flag, its dances, events, etc. But rather, attacking those who don't "act" like us. You would've made a point if, say, this thread was about my disapproval of marriage between an Assyrian and a Chaldean, or a person of one "tribe" with the other, etc.

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I understand that some Assyrians are losing touch with their identity and that many already have, but you need to animate the identity of all Assyrians as being united otherwise they will opt to exclude themselves if you paint them as outcasts.

How do you expect me to do that when they pose as Iraqi Arabs and speak their language? They act like outcasts, they'll be perceived as such. I won't be "politically correct" about that. I will not appease Assyrians like that. Again, they want to be the pariahs here. They're calling themselves Chaldean and want to identify as Iraqi Arabs. I am not doing that.

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If you want to shame Assyrians for assimilating into other cultures, by all means but do so without labeling them as being members of a particular Assyrian subgroup.

What should I call them then? They are known as Chaldeans. It's a commonly used label for them. Don't blame me for using that name.

I am just saying it how it is. They should expect these sort of criticisms. I don't see how it's causing more harm than good. At the end of the day, I wasn't criticizing the Assyrian flag, its dances, events, etc. But rather, attacking those who don't "act" like us. You would've made a point if, say, this thread was about my disapproval of marriage between an Assyrian and a Chaldean, or a person of one "tribe" with the other, etc.

That's the problem isn't it, when you refer to "those who don't act like us" in reference to an Assyrian subgroup which is under attack by separatist influences, yours included.

How do you expect me to do that when they pose as Iraqi Arabs and speak their language? They act like outcasts, they'll be perceived as such. I won't be "politically correct" about that. I will not appease Assyrians like that. Again, they want to be the pariahs here. They're calling themselves Chaldean and want to identify as Iraqi Arabs. I am not doing that.

This rhetoric is a big part of what drives Catholic Assyrians away from the Assyrian identity. If you want to criticise Arabic influences, do so without reference to any Assyrian subgroups.

You're specifically talking about Catholic Assyrians in a poor light, the very title of this thread, which is foul, is "This video makes me support Chaldean separatism" -that's the problem.

Not sure why you're emphasizing on the Catholic part, since some of them are part of our own Nestorian church and others are also nonbelievers, whilst identifying as Chaldeans. Surely you would know this. Again, whether they're Catholic, Baptist or Methodist is NOT the point of this thread. I understand that most of them adhere to Catholicism, anyway. You can call them Catholic Assyrian, and I can call them Chaldeans - As do many people. Doesn't make you right (or wrong).

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That's the problem isn't it, when you refer to "those who don't act like us" in reference to an Assyrian subgroup which is under attack by separatist influences, yours included.

As bad as saying "people like you are the reason why Muslims are radicalized" to those who criticism Islam and its bad ideas.

They don't act like us. They are not proud of being us, the many of them. You expect to me shut up about it? How illiberal is that. I can criticize anything or anyone, even those who belong in our Assyrian community. Doesn't mean I am anti-Assyrian or whatever you're implying here. Now that mindset is foul.

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This rhetoric is a big part of what drives Catholic Assyrians away from the Assyrian identity. If you want to criticise Arabic influences, do so without reference to any Assyrian subgroups.

The rhetoric of condemning Islam is a big part of what drives Muslims away from sanity. If you want to criticize Islamic terrorism, do so without reference to any Islamic branches.

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Call us all "Assyrians" and nothing else.

Finally a good point. But again, they don't want to be called that. Many other people simply identify them as Chaldeans. It's a commonly used label for them. If I want to point them out specifically, I have to say "Chaldean".

Neon, I couldn't care less about the cohesion of the Islamic community. I care about the cohesion of the Assyrian community so please don't keep posting this rubbish about particular Assyrian subgroups, especially when we have strong separatists forces tearing it apart already.

It's not a matter of freedom of speech. You can swear at an old lady if you like, I'm just asking you not to do it.

Neon, I couldn't care less about the cohesion of the Islamic community. I care about the cohesion of the Assyrian community so please don't keep posting this rubbish about particular Assyrian subgroups, especially when we have strong separatists forces tearing it apart already.

That analogy was perfect. You are biased, simply because Chaldeans are ethnically part of us, so therefore they are automatically immune from criticism. It's amazing how you can dish it when it comes to other cultures, but you can't take it when it comes to yours. And please, don't tell me what not to post. That's such a feeble SJW curt based on your emotions. Not everyone in this world is here to please you. FYI, people are entitled to opinions that are not homogeneous to yours. I thought, as the liberal that you are, you knew all this.

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It's not a matter of freedom of speech. You can swear at an old lady if you like, I'm just asking you not to do it.

Of course, because swearing at an elderly is equally comparable to criticizing a culture.

That analogy was perfect. You are biased, simply because Chaldeans are ethnically part of us, so therefore they are automatically immune from criticism. It's amazing how you can dish it when it comes to other cultures, but you can't take it when it comes to yours.

Yes, I am biased because I do not care about cohesion for Muslims but I do care about cohesion for Assyrians. It's not that anyone is immune from criticism, it's that instead of just criticising the flaws that some Assyrians have, you decide to attach a subgroup label to it and advocate for separatism -which is dangerous for our nation.

And please, don't tell me what not to post. That's such a feeble SJW curt based on your emotions. Not everyone in this world is here to please you. FYI, people are entitled to opinions that are not homogeneous to yours. I thought, as the liberal that you are, you knew all this.

It's not about merely pleasing me - once again, it is about trying to convince you to stop supporting separatism within our community. This is not the first time you have done this and it is very damaging.

Of course, because swearing at an elderly is equally comparable to criticizing a culture.

Yes, it is comparable in one particular sense that I was trying to highlight and which I thought was rather obvious: just because you can do/say something doesn't mean you should.Just because I used hyperbole, doesn't mean the analogy doesn't apply.

Like I said, criticise bad culture as much as possible but don't advocate for separatism within our community and don't single out our subgroups.

Yes, I am biased because I do not care about cohesion for Muslims but I do care about cohesion for Assyrians. It's not that anyone is immune from criticism, it's that instead of just criticising the flaws that some Assyrians have, you decide to attach a subgroup label to it and advocate for separatism -which is dangerous for our nation.

It's not about merely pleasing me - once again, it is about trying to convince you to stop supporting separatism within our community. This is not the first time you have done this and it is very damaging.

Yes, it is comparable in one particular sense that I was trying to highlight and which I thought was rather obvious: just because you can do/say something doesn't mean you should.Just because I used hyperbole, doesn't mean the analogy doesn't apply.

Like I said, criticise bad culture as much as possible but don't advocate for separatism within our community and don't single out our subgroups.

Akhee, remember. Cohesion is not when everybody agrees with each other, it's when we all learn to respect each others differences and be mindful of them.

It's no difficulty that there are Assyrians who do not respect the differences amongst other Assyrians. Chaldos are guilty of this too.

Yes, I am biased because I do not care about cohesion for Muslims but I do care about cohesion for Assyrians. It's not that anyone is immune from criticism, it's that instead of just criticising the flaws that some Assyrians have, you decide to attach a subgroup label to it and advocate for separatism -which is dangerous for our nation.

It's not about merely pleasing me - once again, it is about trying to convince you to stop supporting separatism within our community. This is not the first time you have done this and it is very damaging.

Yes, it is comparable in one particular sense that I was trying to highlight and which I thought was rather obvious: just because you can do/say something doesn't mean you should.Just because I used hyperbole, doesn't mean the analogy doesn't apply.

Like I said, criticise bad culture as much as possible but don't advocate for separatism within our community and don't single out our subgroups.

Look, I understand where you're coming from, especially with your last statement. I will reply to you without analogies and tropes for your sake. Just so we can understand each other in a rational sense.

First and foremost, I think that we can criticize anything or anyone that we want, even if they are related to us. Doesn't mean that I want them expelled or ostracized from our community (at least, not everyone - just those who refuse to act our way). All in all, I want to see an improvement. When you're being critical of something you want to see a change or some betterment.

You don't know. Maybe posts like these would make Arabized Assyrians have an epiphany, where they'd be like "look at how they're viewing us". And they would opt for a change in direction. Start to look at the positive side of things. Saying "this is damaging" doesn't really fix anything. You are, in a way, ignoring, or indirectly appeasing, those who dress like Arabs and write Arabic to represent our nation. Ignoring such instances is also rather damaging, is it not?

Instead of being critical of, or concerned about, my posts about Arabized Assyrians, be critical of the Assyrians in the video that I shared. And then you can tell me that you disagree with me saying "separatism". At least, you can agree with some points that I made about them, whilst critiquing others. Being completely against my stance isn't really helping, considering that there are Assyrians who don't represent themselves that way. And both you and I do want more Assyrians (including Chaldeans/Catholics) to act more Assyrian.

Akhee, remember. Cohesion is not when everybody agrees with each other, it's when we all learn to respect each others differences and be mindful of them.

It's no difficulty that there are Assyrians who do not respect the differences amongst other Assyrians. Chaldos are guilty of this too.

If Chaldeans were not guilty of this, I don't think I would have even think of making this thread. Of course, not all Chaldeans have the Arab mindset, but there are those that do. And I shouldn't be ridiculed for pointing them out.

To reiterate, the main point of this thread was that if these Arabicized Chaldeans continue "acting" that way, then by all means, they can separate themselves and call themselves Iraqi, Chaldean or whatever. I wouldn't stand in their way. With that said, I do NOT include the Chaldeans who generally speak Aramaic, write Syriac and/or dress in our folk costumes (as opposed to those in this video, who did not). I make a distinction between the two, and I should've specified that in my OP.

Akhee, remember. Cohesion is not when everybody agrees with each other, it's when we all learn to respect each others differences and be mindful of them.

It's no difficulty that there are Assyrians who do not respect the differences amongst other Assyrians. Chaldos are guilty of this too.

To the contrary, I'd argue that cohesion is vague term and I specifically chose it to serve that purpose which was to speak of our general unity. The problem is not about reserving criticisms for the actions of Assyrians of any kind, it is about expressing contempt or encouraging alienation towards particular Assyrian subgroups.

For example, if someone wants to make fun of Assyrians in Arab clothing, go ahead but don't start superimposing that on an Assyrian subgroup as it encourages further division.

And yet you're still continuing with your Arab propaganda. Display a dubious photo of "Assyrians" wearing Arab clothing in a church and therefore we're Arabs now. Lol.

Hate to burst your bubble, but they are Christian Arabs who happen to be in our church. Perhaps ex-Muslims who came to the church in order to be baptized and convert to Christianity. This always happens. We always share photos of such events. Chaldeans are the ones separating themselves. The video sort of showed that. I am in no way intentionally separating them for us just for the sake of separation. Their actions are showing it and I'm like "carry on then, don't call yourself Assyrian". And it isn't just those in this video. Many Chaldeans act like that.Who is talking about churches? Watch the video. You really did not get my point.

That's from AINA.Not saying you're Arabs,but let's be real here. The idea that all the Iraqi and Syrian Arabic speakers all came from the Arabian peninsula is obviously bunk.To an extent, you do share ancestry with them. Or rather, they have some of your ancestry. Which I think is good. After all, Iraqi Shia have taken pride in liberating Assyrian towns from ISIS and ringing the church bells again. Talked to a diaspora Iraqi of Shia family, and he said they were fairly pro-Assyrian.

That's from AINA.Not saying you're Arabs,but let's be real here. The idea that all the Iraqi and Syrian Arabic speakers all came from the Arabian peninsula is obviously bunk.

Not all, yes. But some of them, unlike us, do have ancestry from the Arabian peninsula, especially Iraqi Arabs (or their Muslims).

I do agree that most Syrians and Lebanese people are not full Arabs. Lebanese people are predominantly Phoenician. Not to sound politically incorrect and shallow, they're just too attractive to be Gulf Arabs. Most men from the gulf and Saudi Arabia are hideous. Lebanese men, including our ones and SOME Syrians, are very handsome and "distinct" looking in general. That lone is telling enough.

Think of it a spectrum. We are the least with Arab ancestry. After us, it's the Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians and Iraqi Muslims. Kuwaitis, Emiratis, Saudis and the likes are virtually Arab. Egyptians are up there too, but then they have a bit of subsaharan African and South European.

Can you give me a link to the actual article? I'm pretty sure that they are Arab Christians or Muslims who have converted to Christianity. If they are Assyrian, then they have to be Chaldean (*cough* which proves the point of this thread).

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To an extent, you do share ancestry with them. Or rather, they have some of your ancestry. Which I think is good.

We are indeed genetically close to Iraqi and Syrian Arabs. More so with their Christians though. But again, definitely not with all of them. And we are still closer to the Middle Eastern Jews (Iraqi Jews, Georgian Jews, etc).

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After all, Iraqi Shia have taken pride in liberating Assyrian towns from ISIS and ringing the church bells again. Talked to a diaspora Iraqi of Shia family, and he said they were fairly pro-Assyrian.

Nobody's saying that Iraqis are our enemies and that they all loathe us. A lot of us have befriended Iraqi Arabs, myself included. Some do support us. Others don't. And vice versa.

Not all, yes. But some of them, unlike us, do have ancestry from the Arabian peninsula, especially Iraqi Arabs (or their Muslims).

I do agree that most Syrians and Lebanese people are not full Arabs. Lebanese people are predominantly Phoenician. Not to sound politically incorrect and shallow, they're just too attractive to be Gulf Arabs. Most men from the gulf and Saudi Arabia are hideous. Lebanese men, including our ones and SOME Syrians, are very handsome and "distinct" looking in general. That lone is telling enough.

Think of it a spectrum. We are the least with Arab ancestry. After us, it's the Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians and Iraqi Muslims. Kuwaitis, Emiratis, Saudis and the likes are virtually Arab. Egyptians are up there too, but then they have a bit of subsaharan African and South European.

Can you give me a link to the actual article? I'm pretty sure that they are Arab Christians or Muslims who have converted to Christianity. If they are Assyrian, then they have to be Chaldean (*cough* which proves the point of this thread).We are indeed genetically close to Iraqi and Syrian Arabs. More so with their Christians though. But again, definitely not with all of them. And we are still closer to the Middle Eastern Jews (Iraqi Jews, Georgian Jews, etc).Nobody's saying that Iraqis are our enemies and that they all loathe us. A lot of us have befriended Iraqi Arabs, myself included. Some do support us. Others don't. And vice versa.