Almost all classes do insane burst
Hunters are fine only because they are playing with op wars/dks/ferals
As a hunter i can't just burst down any healer 1vs1 if he heals himself unless he start typing "hunter op" and forget to cast spells

What a stupid argument.
So if you're class cant kill a healer in a 1v1, its means your class isn't good enough?

What caster, besides a mage if(though i'm not even sure about this one after fbomb nerf), can solo a healer 1v1? Does this mean casters are too weak?

Hunters/mages/warriors just to unhealable damage, the only classes who can do anything are shamans and pallies because their instant casts full heal. Ironbark either needs 0 CD or this 15% debuff shaman/pally only being caught without a trinket by a warrior with any cooldown is just game over and its retarded. Nothing should die being spamed regrowth'd but any class with an MS debuff requires shadowpriests in order to survive.

I can't keep any clothie alive if they have a kittycleave on them with 3x lifeblooms 1x rejuv 1x wild growth 1x regrowth ticking + regrowth spam and swiftmend on CD.

That is what i am trying to explain, and the only classes that seem to be strong enough to keep their teammates alive are shamans and hpalas.

Almost all classes do insane burst
Hunters are fine only because they are playing with op wars/dks/ferals
As a hunter i can't just burst down any healer 1vs1 if he heals himself unless he start typing "hunter op" and forget to cast spells

The issue with hunters is not the damage, well..sometimes you guys do really stupid damage aswell but it's the instant CC you have. Silence Shot, Scattershot, 9 sec snares, Pet Silence and getting it back the second you prep is just soo stupid. When ever I face a hunter and I'm not playing Godcomp, I see my mates dying before I can set up my first cast.

And yes, it is also stupid to see mates die while you are freecasting, just because your heals dont even heal through a single one of your opponents who popped "some" offensive cds.

actually i play atm ele/shadow/rdruid at 2,4mmr and my druid can keep up the ele against every cleave except of kfc who pop everything, don't know why all of you thing druid healing is so weak. just have to play a lot at pillars and ccing enemies.....

and that just outhealing damage without having to cast is not going to work.

That's probably a good thing. I can't speak to the current state of Resto druids but in the past I've always been annoyed by the complaint of "He died with FULL HOTS!!!". HoTs are easy to apply. They're instant and you don't have to worry about interrupts. So I've never understood why druids feel entitled to be able to hit 4 or 5 instants and have their target stay alive indefinitely for the hots' duration -- this coming from someone whose main was a druid for 8 seasons.

While it would be better for the health of the game in general if healing became less instant and more based on casting -- the current state of interrupts make this unrealistic. So I can't blame you for wanting to keep someone up with only instants but it points to a bigger issue which is at the core of WoW's metagame. There were seasons were full instant hots WERE enough to keep anything alive (late S8, for example), and just as we now see MoP rogues complaining that they aren't at the level of Cata roguedom, resto druids became accustomed to mindless hot spam and now feel entitled to that as a playstyle.

They just really need to tone down interrupts and CC.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

Because it's a fact? rofl It's not as weak as some people here make it but it's horrible against meelecleaves, for example KFC

i got you point but like mirion mentioned every heal has problems with cleaves, especially kfc. try to cast a heal as shaman when kfc has million ways to interrupt a cast. of course druid heal isn't so strong but youz have to play it different with a druid, more like hit and run with clones. nobody can tank kfc damage and every healer have problems with this comp

That's probably a good thing. I can't speak to the current state of Resto druids but in the past I've always been annoyed by the complaint of "He died with FULL HOTS!!!". HoTs are easy to apply. They're instant and you don't have to worry about interrupts. So I've never understood why druids feel entitled to be able to hit 4 or 5 instants and have their target stay alive indefinitely for the hots' duration

A good point, but is the 5 GCD of HoT applying not enough of a cost to have someone stay alive for 10-15s after? Other classes can pop an aura mastery and top someone in 1 GCD.

S8 was good in my opinion. If you had full HoTs on someone, they were mostly safe. Teams would swap around depending on lifebloom and try CC you if you let your HoTs run too long, so they fell off before a swap etc.

Nerfing HoTs and buffing casts just makes Druids like every other healing class - apart from since MoP release they have been taken over on offensive CC

No they can't, only Shamans can top someone off if their mastery is active and they get a GHW off and it crits, against a cleave I as a paladin have to spam FoL to keep someone alive, similar to druids have to spam regrowth.

Paladins can top someone off in 2~ gcd's with CDs up, I think that's fair since our class is very CD based unlike other healing classes and once our CDs are out we're going to struggle to keep anything alive against any kind of damage.

Snuggli, on 29 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

S8 was good in my opinion. If you had full HoTs on someone, they were mostly safe. Teams would swap around depending on lifebloom and try CC you if you let your HoTs run too long, so they fell off before a swap etc.

S8 was good for you? Of course it was, you were the best healing class because you could have full Hots on someone and it could tank whatever damage it wanted to while you cycloned someone.

And yeah I play a Druid too and I know their healing isn't the best w/o treeform but you have teammates with defensive Cds and almost every healer has to play with a SP to keep people alive through the current damage anyway.

That's probably a good thing. I can't speak to the current state of Resto druids but in the past I've always been annoyed by the complaint of "He died with FULL HOTS!!!". HoTs are easy to apply. They're instant and you don't have to worry about interrupts. So I've never understood why druids feel entitled to be able to hit 4 or 5 instants and have their target stay alive indefinitely for the hots' duration -- this coming from someone whose main was a druid for 8 seasons.

Applying a full row of hots on a target takes some time. The way to beat resto druids is to either swap a lot, let hots fall off or CC the druid long enough to kill someone. Druid healing's weakness is not being able to instantly help someone after coming out of CC. Shaman or Paladins have very strong instant heals, priest can always shield a target after a long cc chain. Druids do not have these abilities.

That is why, if a druids is able to hot someone to the fullest, that target should not die. You are bad if you don't swap accordingly.
If a druid cannot hold one target up with a full row of hots, and we aren't able to lifebloom two targets anymore, we are gonna have a bad time. As you see now, hello regrowth spam

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I don't want druids to have their partner fully safe just because they have 3xblooms on their target, and you know it will bloom for 560.000 (kidding). That was how it was in s8. If you went on someone and saw they had 3 blooms, you just swapped off since it made no sense trying to kill him. Unless you could kill him before they bloomed.

But Paladins have moved away from the hardcasting defensive healer they used to be balanced around in TBC, Wotlk and somewhat Cataclysm. Double freedoms, bops, repentance, blind, longer range on HoJ, more absorbs and more instant and more output. It is really silly. Meanwhile they still get to keep their plate (which honestly finally is worth something this xpac).

I don't want druids to have their partner fully safe just because they have 3xblooms on their target, and you know it will bloom for 560.000 (kidding). That was how it was in s8. If you went on someone and saw they had 3 blooms, you just swapped off since it made no sense trying to kill him. Unless you could kill him before they bloomed.

But Paladins have moved away from the hardcasting defensive healer they used to be balanced around in TBC, Wotlk and somewhat Cataclysm. Double freedoms, bops, repentance, blind, longer range on HoJ, more absorbs and more instant and more output. It is really silly. Meanwhile they still get to keep their plate (which honestly finally is worth something this xpac).

Reading this and many of your posts Felic most have a good basis of knowledge over the game and somewhat logical, i don't see how though our class (Paladin) is fun or viable to play anymore in 3's while expecting to play a 90%+ win ratio. Paladins are viable mostly in cleave's nowadays unless you find some people that can actually keep some synergy between them and play defensive while you take 1 single CC so they don't start dropping etc-etc. Never the less paladins are taking place more effectively in melee-cleaves but even there nowadays Shamans are taking their place, we need to go back to TBC-WOTLK where paladins and every other healer was viable in it with their own way. While was reading though your post talking in regards to repentance and such trying to get that off will get you in a bad place 90% of the time given you show your face and shit starts dropping even in a blanket or a stun that you receive

A good point, but is the 5 GCD of HoT applying not enough of a cost to have someone stay alive for 10-15s after? Other classes can pop an aura mastery and top someone in 1 GCD.

S8 was good in my opinion. If you had full HoTs on someone, they were mostly safe. Teams would swap around depending on lifebloom and try CC you if you let your HoTs run too long, so they fell off before a swap etc.

Nerfing HoTs and buffing casts just makes Druids like every other healing class - apart from since MoP release they have been taken over on offensive CC

You're right that hots do take time. But the kind of metagame that is encouraged by someone being safe with a full row of hots is bad: it means that if you are facing a resto druid team, you NEED to be able to kill someone in 4 seconds. And burst is already out of hand. Resto druids would (again) become a hard counter to any comp that doesn't thrive on bursting something down in a stun (just like they were in S8). Furthermore the fact that you can pre-hot with no consequence means that in the hands of a good druid your whole team becomes unkillable if hots are enough to keep something alive indefinitely. Again, just flash back to S8 LSD and you'll remember how detrimental that was to the game. If you remember, at that time EVERY tournament team had a resto druid healer, and EVERY team relied on randomly bursting something down in 2 seconds (LSD, When the Stars Align, ATC, etc).

Yes the hot-rolling playstyle might be unique in a game that has largely been homogenized, but it's also detrimental to the metagame.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck