You did the same thing with Billups when the trade went down. IMO, it's about AI, not Chauncey or Rip.

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And Sheed. It has nothing to do with AI. I was the same person who was telling people they were nuts at the height of trade Sheed for Kaman, cardboard boxes, M&M's, etc. I don't see how that connects to AI. It would seem i have a problem with throwing out a player like yesterday's trash b/c we got a new one.

We just beat Denver on their homecourt with Kwame and Amir. Gimme a break.

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Ok so should i wait to talk about this when/if we lose in the 2nd round?

It shouldn't be frustrating. CB and Rip can't carry AI's duffel bag. He's earned the leeway he gets. No one gave it to him. And while he may not have won a title, I think we only won a title because of Ben and LB. Certainly not CB and Rip, who have spent 3 years putting up #s and going to All Star games, and then collapsing in the playoffs.

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How has he earned this leeway exactly ? By missing practice, by never playing on a team that won a championship, by forcing his way out of PHI, by constantly clashing with his coaches? So is that what Rip needs to do? Or does he just need to be able to drop 30 by dominating the ball on his team regardless of shooting %. AI is a great player but he hasn't earned s___.

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So now Ben and LB won us a championship, but it has nothing to do with the 2004 finals MVP or Rip torching Reggie Miller. If that's the case then can't Flip be responsible for us not winning the championship? Rip didn't choke in the PO's.

This is the most adult Pistons forum. Some of us span 20+ years being fans. We've seen HOF Pistons, multiple titles, classic battles.

Army, HQ and congo (amongst others perhaps) watched games at Cobo for crissakes. They saw Greg Kelser in his prime. Guys like me, Low, Motown, D4E, cut our teeth on the bad boys.

That's just a small group of us. We've seen guys go out badly, and guys go out on top. We've seen all kinds of trades from Lanier, to Kelser, Tripucka, Rodman, Dantley to Hill, Billups and Stackhouse.

We all follow the Pistons regardless of who is wearing the uniform, and for the most part don't care what sneakers who is wearing, or who got introducted when.

This is where all of the old fogeys are.

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I don't doubt the Pistons fandom or intelligence of the posters, but that doesn't mean opinions on other boards aren't just as valid. It's not like there are 12 year olds posting on all the other forums.

I can't find the quote although i didn't try very hard to look, but it was basically something when he asked about being on the bench in the 4th quarter, he made it known he had a problem with it, but also said "If i start complaining about it when the team is winning, I look stupid" or something to that effect. If you need me to find it let me know.

This may have been mentioned but did anyone notice that when Bynum came in to guard CB....there was an immediate reaction shot of The Griever, on the bench doubled up with laughter?

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What are you talking about?!?! Can't he just laugh if he wants to? Why does everybody blame him for everything? Maybe he thought something was funny. Stop scrutinizing his every move!! Err wait I'm sorry i thought this post was about Allen Iverson.

In that case, trade Rip. What a cancer. He obviously hates the team and is planning on killing Will Bynum.

I can't find the quote although i didn't try very hard to look, but it was basically something when he asked about being on the bench in the 4th quarter, he made it known he had a problem with it, but also said "If i start complaining about it when the team is winning, I look stupid" or something to that effect. If you need me to find it let me know.

And Sheed. It has nothing to do with AI. I was the same person who was telling people they were nuts at the height of trade Sheed for Kaman, cardboard boxes, M&M's, etc. I don't see how that connects to AI. It would seem i have a problem with throwing out a player like yesterday's trash b/c we got a new one.

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I think we all know Sheed would come off the bench in a heart beat. If there is one Piston whose ego is so small that it appears he doesn't care at all, it's Sheed.

Ok so should i wait to talk about this when/if we lose in the 2nd round?

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You can talk about it whenever you want. It doesn't mean that is a good idea. Besides, how satisfying can basketball be if you're always picking your team to lose? I'm all for some healthy masochism (short of banging my head off of plaster) but really, a whole season of despair and low expectations? Doesn't sound like much fun.

How has he earned this leeway exactly ? By missing practice, by never playing on a team that won a championship, by forcing his way out of PHI, by constantly clashing with his coaches? So is that what Rip needs to do? Or does he just need to be able to drop 30 by dominating the ball on his team regardless of shooting %. AI is a great player but he hasn't earned s___.

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Like I said, for you it's about AI. You don't respect him even half as much as the guys who play beside him do.

Rip is nowhere near the talent of an AI. And not just talent, but expressing it during games. If you can't see that, I can't help ya. AI is a difference maker. Rip is a guy whose team gets better when he doesn't start.

I don't doubt the Pistons fandom or intelligence of the posters, but that doesn't mean opinions on other boards aren't just as valid. It's not like there are 12 year olds posting on all the other forums.

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Well I never mentioned 12 year olds. A lot of us visit other forums. I lurk at pistons.com and the Detnews. I know army and lee check out mlive. Slippy and webz surf RealGM. We don't exist in a bubble.

All opinions are not valid though. Some are better than others. I think the difference here is that we are focused on the team and the franchise more than who plays for it any given year or what #s they put up.

That's just a small group of us. We've seen guys go out badly, and guys go out on top. We've seen all kinds of trades from Lanier, to Kelser, Tripucka, Rodman, Dantley to Hill, Billups and Stackhouse.

We all follow the Pistons regardless of who is wearing the uniform, and for the most part don't care what sneakers who is wearing, or who got introduced when before games.

This is where all of the old fogeys are.

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As a 25 year plus fan of the Pistons. It is nice to have a few posters who remember the history and tradition of the franchise. Most posters are well informed and while I may not agree with ever poster everyone here at PF.com is treated with respect. No name calling no insulting just friendly back and forth banter.

It is not about one player with must of us fans that have been following the Pistons many years. They come and go. It is about the team. I remember the Hawks beating us in a playoff series back in mid 80's and celebrating on our home court. Isiah Thomas vowed over his dead body would he allow the Atlanta Hawks to ever win a playoff series against us. The following year we destroyed them. I remember the Detroit/ Boston battles in the mid 80's. The battles with Robert Parrish and Bill Laimbeer back when big men really were physical. Who can forget the Bad Boys and the battles with the Bulls and the Lakers? I remember Isiah playing on one leg and nearly beating the Lakers for the NBA title in 1987. Us old school fans are used to our players going to the mat to win. The point I am making is with RIP's comments it appears he is puting himself above the team. AI is irrelevant to this conversation. Joe D. has that same old school mentality. He put a team together that would work hard and commit to whatever it takes to win. It seems Mr. Hamilton may have been reading his press clippings a bit too much and has gone rogue on Joe D. There have been rumblings for some time now that the chemistry is all wrong in the Pistons locker room and this was before AI was brought here. Perhaps RIP has his ring so stats and the fame are more important to him now. If that is the case maybe he might like to rot away on a Memphis squad and put up 30 a game and lose 50 games. It is not about what RIP wants. It is about what he is asked to do. If you are on your job you can't tell your boss what you are not going to do. So what makes RIP any different?
He may not like it, but tough.

In order to be championship caliber don't you have to have a realistic chance of winning a championship ? There are only 3 contenders IMO right now and those are CLE, LAL, BOS.

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Not to change the subject here, but I agree that these are the real contendors, but think we all need to start giving some credit to Orlando and not just toss them under the bus as an also ran pretender. Yeah we handled them a week or so ago, but that is the only loss they have had in their past 10 games I believe.

When it comes down to the playoffs, its all about a matchups and if one of these favorites just happens to be knocked off before the ultimate conference finals matchup, then some surprise team like the 04 Pistons win it all or some surprise team like the 07 Cavs showsup in the finals.
I ask this question the other day, >>> how did Rip get injured and does anyone have any notes on how serious this injury is?? I recall Billups literally stretching his groin during the Orlando series last year, but he was out for no more than 2 games...yeah it was playoff time and he was needed back sooner, but what is the timetable for Rip's return? Is this injury being dragged out because Curry does not want to upset the current success or is Rip holding out because he knows his return may result in coming off the bench? If Stuckey is hurting tonight, does Rip all of sudden appear in a uniform tonight and start as if he was there was nothing wrong??

As many have interrupted their Saturday morning to state, if Rip ain't on the same page with team success, then ship him to a loser so he can really hit rock bottom..yeah he will start and be the man, but he will also have his first non post season play in 7 years because he didn't want to be team player.

His rationale that Iverson was seething was that he passed up a shot to a teammate (in Detroit, we call that playing the right way) and then he didn't foul, when arguable 3 of the other 4 guys on the floor also didn't foul.

AI has been getting yanked late during the win streak without Rip around, and he's certainly not seething.

Also the "run ins with Curry" portion is completely unsubstantiated, unless I missed something.

Again, all opinions are not equal. Tom Ziller is a blogger trying to be controversial. A half assed decent post, would have sourced what he claimed to see or know. DetroitBadBoys does a fantastic job of that, but then Matt Watson is a real journalist.

Rip used to be our most consistant player. I remember when he put up 20 points, 3-4 boards, 3-4 assists, shoot 45-50% and no one really cared. That is how consistent he was. Then last season he started getting out of sync. Now this season he has been injured, and mentally weak.

One question though. Why does Rip or AI have to go to the bench? Stuckey could also go...

I left out a bunch of "mature" people. I'm not sure if they appreciate that or not. lol

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Yeah at 54, I sometimes I feel I am to old/mature to hang out with you young whipper snappers, but its lonely out here in the inland empire...I am the only Piston fan in area and I need you guys for salvation...

Yeah at 54, I sometimes I feel I am to old/mature to hang out with you young whipper snappers, but its lonely out here in the inland empire...I am the only Piston fan in area and I need you guys for salvation...

This may have been mentioned but did anyone notice that when Bynum came in to guard CB....there was an immediate reaction shot of The Griever, on the bench doubled up with laughter?

I just don't think, at this point Rip has any chance of meshing with this team.

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I don't know why but that short sentence just seems so right.

I dunno. I'm one of the mature...NO...I'm just old...One of the old guys around here. I think back to guys like Lanier, Thunder & Lightning, Isiah, Lambs, Vinnie, Rodman, Big Ben,and even C.B. When I think of them, I think...Those guys made the Pistons what/Who they are today. But when I think of Rip, I think...The Pistons made him who he is today.

I think they would do well to trade him for someone of some value who really wants to be a PISTON.

Yeah at 54, I sometimes I feel I am to old/mature to hang out with you young whipper snappers, but its lonely out here in the inland empire...I am the only Piston fan in area and I need you guys for salvation...

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Dre, I was just telling my wife two days ago that the true beauty of this place is just that. Except I would change Piston fan to Detroit sports fan.

I think back to guys like Lanier, Thunder & Lightning, Isiah, Lambs, Vinnie, Rodman, Big Ben,and even C.B. When I think of them, I think...Those guys made the Pistons what/Who they are today. But when I think of Rip, I think...The Pistons made him who he is today.

Rip used to be our most consistant player. I remember when he put up 20 points, 3-4 boards, 3-4 assists, shoot 45-50% and no one really cared. That is how consistent he was. Then last season he started getting out of sync. Now this season he has been injured, and mentally weak.

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So much of the Pistons offense was totally geared to getting Rip his shots where he shoots them best. It was totally unhealthy for an offense to be so predictable, and dependent upon one player.

That and the fact that several teams have the Carlisle book on how to play Billups (Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio) necessitated changing things up.

Players got to do what's best for the team and what their coach tells 'em. There have been players who are far better than Rip in their respective sports who have been demoted to 2nd/3rd string lines or benched. Heck, McNabb was recently benched for a few games by Andy Reid. The current line-up MC has going is winning, why mess w/ the chemistry? Rip has gone off kilter since they traded his boo. Stuckey is the PG, and more importantly the future face of this team, the goal is give him a starter's minutes and continue developing him. If push comes to a shove then Joe may have to decide the fate of 1 of his 2 guards w/ a trade.

AI and Stuckey on the floor give the Pistons something they have never had in a long time, 2 quick guards who can attack the paint, collapse the D and create their own shots. It's hard to focus on stopping one because the other can take over.

I dunno. I'm one of the mature...NO...I'm just old...One of the old guys around here. I think back to guys like Lanier, Thunder & Lightning, Isiah, Lambs, Vinnie, Rodman, Big Ben,and even C.B. When I think of them, I think...Those guys made the Pistons what/Who they are today. But when I think of Rip, I think...The Pistons made him who he is today.

I think they would do well to trade him for someone of some value who really wants to be a PISTON.

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Yes, yes, Darth, Thunder and Lightning, you are killing me here Darth....You are killing me.....I am about to bring out the Fro wig, bell bottoms and a cup of Stroh's ice cream...LOL