Re: Do we need split media CDs for F12?

From: Kevin Kofler <kevin kofler chello at>

To: fedora-devel-list redhat com

Subject: Re: Do we need split media CDs for F12?

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:15:04 +0200

I wrote:
> No, we could just drop support for it and have FedoraUnity decide whether
> they want to fork Anaconda (and no longer be able to use the Fedora name)
> or just stop shipping split media.
and one of the FedoraUnity folks responded by posting a rant on his blog
about how I am "against the community" and ineligible (in the litteral
sense of the word) for FESCo because of what I wrote.
So let me summarize what's going on:
* People are wondering whether it still makes sense to ship split CDs in a
DVD era, also considering the other options which are still available for
people with only a CD drive (live CDs, which are the recommended install
method these days, at least if you believe the download page, and
netinstalls).
* Some evidence is provided to show how split media download counts are very
low and decreasing with every release.
* Some Anaconda developers report that split media is a source of complexity
in Anaconda they'd love to be able to do away with. (Though to be fair, the
practicality of this is disputed in the light of issues with staying below
the size of a DVD.)
* There seem to be significant community voices in favor of dropping split
CD media.
* Fedora Unity responds by saying they will provide split media *no matter
what*, even in the event everyone else in the community agreed on it not
beeing needed, and judging from the reaction to my suggestion of just
dropping Anaconda support for them, they also seem to expect the Anaconda
developers to do the work of keeping split media working. Jesse Keating
summarized this aptly as "holding Fedora hostage".
So let me clarify a bit where I stand:
* If a sizable portion of the community agrees that split media are
definitely useful and there is no viable alternative, then of course we
should keep it! It is not my goal to overrun the community!
* If split media support is needed in Anaconda anyway to support a multi-DVD
Fedora (not Everything) spin (multi-DVD or lotsa-CD Everything spins being
another thing Fedora does not officially produce and whose usefulness I
doubt of – how many people actually use those spins? What advantage over
only downloading what is actually needed?), then of course we should keep
it! Requiring multiple DVDs can make the installation media less
attractive, but it is also tough to decide what to axe, also considering
there will almost certainly be people complaining about something getting
removed (e.g. count on me to complain loudly if KDE was to be axed from the
DVD, and I'm sure other SIGs will stand up for their packages as well).
* But if split media turn out to be only needed for the Fedora Unity spins
(i.e. IF the community decides that split media is NOT needed), the burden
of maintaining it should be on them. If they want it in the official
Anaconda (for the usual trademark reasons), they need to work with the
Anaconda developers to make this a realistic proposition and not have all
the work land on the Anaconda folks. Compose tools also have special
support for split media, that also needs to be maintained.
If Fedora Unity wants split media support in Fedora no matter what the
community decides (and so far this seems to be their position), then I
think accusing ME of "being against the community" is really bold of them.
I hope this clears things up.
Kevin Kofler