How to Reduce Everyday Pain w/ AJ Evans

We are coming to the end of 2019, and who wouldn’t want to start the new decade pain-free and better functioning? Friend and trainer AJ Evans joins my husband Craig Zielinski and I on this special 3-way live show to provide a double dose of banter and information surrounding getting pain free in your everyday life.

Bridging The Gap Between Healthcare & Wellbeing

Passionate about bridging the gap between healthcare and wellbeing, AJ is here to give an insider look into his life in athletic training and sports medicine rehab and discuss our common shared passion of helping people learn how to help themselves.

Everything from the role of technology in our modern version of communication to the effects of recovering your muscles post-workout and why you need to move your toes are on the table today for this fun and information filled chat amongst friends. If you are looking to avoid the common mindfulness and introspective mistakes people make at the gym, want to become more aware of your feet or want to stop being mad at your body, this is the episode for you.

What are your feelings around finding the silver lining in your pain and wearing crew socks with sandals? Share your thoughts on today’s episode in the comments below!

On Today’s Episode

Why you can’t be mad at your body if it is broken because you used it (20:37)

Considerations for you to add into your daily movement routine (21:15)

Specific exercises to help you avoid common mistakes and rehab your body (27:35)

Addressing all things feet and the stigma surrounding wearing shoes at the gym (28:50)

Learn why your high heels might be giving you bad posture and a pooch (44:10)

Quotes

“People see these injuries and they are like ‘that sucks’, and its like, you decided to participate in sports outside of athletics, you are challenging your body, that is inherent to whatever you are going to do. So you almost need to relish in the fact that you did it because guess what, you are participating.” (16:36)

“Everything that your body is doing is secondary to what you did to it. Don’t be mad at your body, that’s what happens when you repetitively do the same thing over and over again.” (20:33)

“Go walk in the sand and see how sore your feet get. But then in the same amount of time, take your hands and start grabbing the sand and see how sore your hands aren’t. We use our hands because they are meant to be used. Our feet are meant to be tactile and move around the world but then we put them in these protective features because everybody is worried about stepping on something.” (34:52)

“Use your body, enjoy that you are using your body, just because you are hurt it doesn’t mean that you are injured, keep working, love what you do, don’t wear crew socks with sandals and don’t wear shoes.” (53:03)

Harder to Kill Radio is sponsored by the Nutritional Therapy Association. Registration is now open for the NTA’s Nutritional Therapy Practitioner Online Program. Learn more and save your seat (and don’t forget to mention my name on your application!)

You can also try out their free 7-day course, Nutritional Therapy 101 by clicking here.

Learning To Help Yourself & How To Stop Being Mad At Your Body w/ AJ Evans & Craig Zielinski FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steph: This is episode 263 of harder to kill radio. On today’s show, I’m welcoming my friend athletic trainer, Aja Evans and my husband Craig Zelinsky. We are going to be talking all about moving better in your body and getting out of pain. All right, let’s do this.

Steph: I’m Steph Gaudreau. I help women get stronger, know their worth, and take up space without restrictive dieting or exercise as punishment. I’m here to share that you can approach nutrition, fitness, and mindset from a place of nourishment so you begin to trust yourself more deeply. Let’s talk about how to embrace your body and own your power. Now with over two and a half million downloads, this is harder to kill radio.

Steph: Okay. Welcome to the show today. Thank you so very much for tuning into harder to kill radio. I cannot believe we are almost at the end of 2019 how has that happened? I have no idea, but I am really excited today because on this show we are doing a three-way show. We recorded this live in our house with Aja Evans. He is a good friend of mine and my husband’s, Aja is an athletic trainer. He’s worked in the world of physiotherapy and he is to send to super smart all-around guy a, J and Z. And I used to all coach together at a gym in San Diego and I asked Aja to come on the show today to really help you understand how to get out of pain in your everyday life. And of course, because he and Z are such great friends, I decided to have Z also be here on the show.

Steph: So you’re really gonna get a double dose of hilarity and bantered today, but also a lot of great information. So I really hope you enjoy this show with a J and Z and myself and who knows, hopefully, in the future we’ll do some more shows like this where I can record in person because I think it just adds an extra layer of depth and context that just makes the show even better. I did this record in person with my coach, Allegra Stein and you can go back and hear that episode as well. That was so much fun. Today’s show has a couple of sponsors. The first is the core four embrace your body, own your power. This is my book that came out earlier this year and it is chock-full with practical advice and ideas for building sustainable health without the pressure of really restrictive diets and exercise as punishment.

Steph: And I know we are just a couple of mere weeks away from the new year when you’re going to be bombarded with new you and all of the latest weight-loss fads and crazy diets and I would just invite you to check this book out. It is different. I’m not going to lie. When you go and you see this book on a bookshelf, it looks different. I’m not showing you abs. I mean it’s just a different book. So if you really want to broaden your own thinking and approach and learn a different way of really improving your health from the inside out, I invite you to pick up a copy of this book. Of course, you can find it anywhere. Books are sold online or in stores, but you can also get it direct. From my website and if you do, I will sign it for you and also send you a bonus that goes along with the books.

Steph So you can do that@stephgaudreau.com and before we jump into today’s content, today’s show is brought to you by the nutritional therapy association, the NTA trains and certifies nutritional therapy practitioners like myself. I did the program in 2018 and it was one of the best things that I have ever done for myself professionally. In the realm of nutrition, the NTA emphasizes whole food, properly prepared nutrient dense frameworks as the key to restoring balance in the body. They’ve just launched a brand new online program for NTPs where students take an in-depth look at things like function and dysfunction of body systems, food quality, health and wellness barriers, emotional wellbeing environment, the importance of sleep and movement and stress. And you know, we love all those topics here and how they affect the body. As a student, you’ll be empowered with motivational interviewing techniques, clinical and practical skills, and all the most up to date knowledge to become a highly recognized and respected nutrition and wellness professionals in your community. Registration is now open and seats are filling up quickly. You can learn more and save your seat by going to nutritionaltherapy.com and of course, remember to mention my name on your application.

Steph: So we’re going to do something a little bit special today. We’ve got a three-way podcast happening today in person at our house with your favorite most popular podcast guests of all time. Will you introduce yourself? Hello, my name’s Ajay [inaudible] lie. He’s lying. That’s, that’s Z. My husband Craig Zelinski who a lot of, you know from various episodes such as strength training with your menstrual cycle. I don’t even know. You’ve been on multiple shows at this point and people always love when you’re on because you’re irreverent and generally don’t give a fuck. I absolutely do. And uh, today we are also welcoming our friend Aja Evans. He is here is going to be talking

Steph: with us. We’re all going to have a conversation about why I don’t even know what we’re going to call this. Why are people so, uh, broken? What can we do about it and how we can help people be better functioning. Since that’s kind of in your wheelhouse.

Steph: Just looking at the question of why am I broken cause we’re all broken at some level.

Steph: Yes we are trying to fix ourselves a bit of an existential question. So that’s what we’re going to do on this episode today and I’m excited. Okay. So for those of our listeners who don’t know who you are and it’s like there’s people that don’t know. Yeah, it’s crazy because you actually, so if people go back a few weeks and listen to one of the Friday episodes of the show, you asked a question,

AJ: I did ask a question and it was a great one.

Steph: It was a great question. So I think perhaps people may may recognize your voice even, but since you’re a listener of the show, but you’re also friends of ours and I’m somebody who is really experienced in the strength and conditioning world, you have a lot of education about just the body itself, physiology and all that. Give us a little bit of a history. Like how did you get to this point doing the work that you’re doing? What, what is so fascinating for you about helping people regain their, their mobility and function better?

AJ: So I mean I really got into this, I would say high school is when I like started to go through that self-discovery of like wellbeing and fitness. And through that I just kind of fell in love with working out. And then I got in the military, found more people, found more things like CrossFit. Once I really got into cross it, like right when it started and as it started to grow, started to see things like Kelly started in his MobilityWOD and that really opened my eyes to like helping people help themselves. So I always did a pretty good job of taking care of myself and then like learning more through platforms like that and seeing how that can help people. It was more some doing it and then people being like, what are you doing? I’m like, Oh, you don’t know how to do this.

AJ: And then seeing people’s eyes light up when they’re just like, Oh my God, I don’t have to feel that. That kinda got me on the road of getting into athletic training and sports, sports, medicine, rehab, that kind of stuff. So now I’m working at a private facility and 24-hour fitness, kind of trying to bridge that gap between healthcare and wellbeing. Because a lot of people are that miss spot where they’re like the doctor just like, Oh, you’re good. Just go get a gym membership. Not to harp on the people at 24 but they don’t have that expertise to bridge that gap to get them to the next level. They can get them beyond that. But it’s that missing piece in the middle that I want to help teach and fill in on.

Steph: Hmm. So you’re kind of, uh, trying to disrupt the system a little bit.

AJ: I like really impassionate about healthcare change, but the healthcare model in the U S is like so big that you gotta find that small spot where you really start making a change. And I feel like that personal training is going to be the first step. The next step is just networking in and finding out what the, what the big thing is. I’ve been talking to people and they’re doing a lot of like technological changes, but I felt like it was just a bandaid for the problem because technology wants it. Like it’s going to take a crap in a S in a little while and we’re going to be like, Oh crap. Now that the convenience has gone, what are we going to do? What do you mean? So like, I feel like technology is basically created an inconvenient convenience. Yeah. So we’ve got these awesome things that like we can instantly grab things and we’re always looking for that instant gratification.

AJ: But once that instant gratification goes away, like we have no idea how to take [inaudible] take care of ourselves. Even to like talk to somebody and ask like, how do I take care of this? We’re in a generation where everybody’s pretty much not been able. Like they pretty much been able to like instantly communicate with somebody when they need it. So they don’t know what it’s like to have to reach out to somebody on a personal level and be like, Hey, like do you have time to work on this? They are used to just sending out a message being like, do you like this? Do you think this is good? So it’s seeing that change.

Steph: Do you see that bear out in the people that you work with are, you know, because I’m assuming that a large part of what you do, and I’ve worked with you, um, on some mobility stuff and my knee is bugging and is still, is bugging a little bit, but you know that that involves a certain amount of interpersonal skill, right? You’re, you’re sitting there, not only are you trying to assess what’s going on with the person, right, and figure out like where, where’s, where do you feel pain? Like how are you feeling restriction but then trying to get them to communicate that back to you. I mean how is that, how do you work out that challenge in your day today?

AJ: So the biggest problem I’ve seen going through the health care field myself is that communication is huge. But people see it as like I have to try and unfold this puzzle when it’s the ground level is just creating rapport with that person and a communication level of like, Hey, how are you? Like let’s get to know who you are before we dive into like who are you? And like what have you done with your body? Because the other part of that is like pain is a language. It’s not like a scale. Like we all have experienced pain on a different level and when that pain is a communication where I live in this or like my pain is what holds me back. Like you live on that. So when you’re in an environment where you’re dealing with people who are regularly in pain and you can try and change the language of like how that pain is affecting them, instead of being like, this is debilitating me and I can’t get through my life. It’s like, no, this is, you’re feeling this pain because you used your body like enjoy that pain. Like it’s good, like you’ve been using your body, let’s find out what we need to do to get around this discomfort and find that joy that you can still have and not limiting you to being like, you shouldn’t do this. You shouldn’t do that. It’s like, what can we do?

Steph: Well, I think that a lot of people feel that when they, they get to that point where either something acute happens or they just are, they just can’t take it anymore, or they can’t do what they used to do, or they’re severely limited in that they’re afraid that they’re going to, a lot of people that they’re going to walk in to see that physio or they’re, or they’re going to see that trainer or whoever, that physical therapist, like whoever’s doing the work on them or with them, and that person’s going to say, just don’t do this thing anymore. And I don’t know, I feel like I’ve been pretty, I don’t want to say it lucky, but a lot of the people that I’ve worked with over the years in terms of movement and rehab and things like that, I’ve been really positive about, Hey, let’s help you get back to the things that you want to do. But I think a lot of people don’t go in to see somebody because they’re afraid they’re going to be told like, it’s over for you. Or, you know, stop doing this thing that brings you joy or is the way that you deal with stress or, or whatever

AJ: on top of that is just access. If you don’t have insurance, you don’t have access to that and then it’s just trusting what you can find on the internet and do it to yourself. Yeah.

Craig Coupled with that, there was a litany of tropes that are associated with any form of debilitating NGD. For example, I have a bad back so I have a bad back that becomes your story. So ever since like based around the having a bad back, well I can’t do, I’ve got bad back. Oh that’s utterly fucking meaningless.

AJ: Ties into the belief in CrossFit of like if I’m not sore I didn’t work out.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well body Belden as well. Yeah. Like or gym training in general. Right. Like, even though like in my new job I in with some people and sometimes they’ll like, they’ll train with me and then they’ll complain that they don’t, or they will state that they don’t feel sore. And you can tell that they’re kind of like, is that, is that supposed to happen? Am I supposed to be not sore? Like the genuinely get confused. If we’ve been doing say let’s say squatting for weeks on weeks, on weeks, on weeks, they’re confused as to the fact that they’re not sore anymore. Like they may be tired and they’ll tell me they’re tired, mother, like I’m not, I’m not sore. And you can see in their eyes they’re like, is that, is that wrong?

AJ: Yeah. And it’s hard to like explain that physiological process of like getting through all of that and changing the processes in your body to adapt to all the, the downsides of training short term as opposed to training longterm.

Craig: But then, but that’s the problem we’re talking about people who like carry around these sort of things, these easy nuggets. You’re talking about technology, right? Technology is a solution for a problem we’ve created. Right. Um, and basically everyone is going around with these things in their head, like these little nuggets, you know, trading soreness or my back bad or I have bad knees or whatever it is. Right? And so you’re talking about having, you know, Putin or, or get in a deep connection with somebody when you’re trying to work through all of these processes. And the first thing you have to do is smash through all of those barriers that have been created by this. I dunno if there’s a stigma. Yeah. There’s stuff that floats around that’s easily accessed on the internet. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. I’m going to stop talking. [inaudible]

AJ: that brings me to the idea of like, so in high, like when I was covering high school athletics with athletic training, that’s an interesting time because it’s usually the first time that people have an injury. Like it’s the first time they understand what it means to be hurt or injured. So getting into a field where, so now sports are very much more covered with healthcare professionals. So when you’re working with the older population, they weren’t used to having somebody there. So when they got hurt it was just walk it off and wait till it’s better. Now we’re at a point where everybody is just like go see the athletic trainer and then they go see somebody and they get seen and they get taken care of. And then the parents were like, well we just walked that off. It’s like, well now we’ve got new principles and ideas that we can truly deal with this so that it doesn’t affect, you know, 30 years down the line it’s like, Oh your knee hurts because you just walk off that knee, Andrea, now you’ve got osteoarthritis.

AJ: Like we can do things to minimize, minimize those risks. And like the thing is people see these injuries and they’re like, Oh this sucks. Like that sucks. It’s like, well you decided to participate in like sports, some side of athletics. Like you’re, you’re challenging your body like that is inherent to whatever you’re going to do. So like you gotta you almost need to like relish the fact that you did it because guess what you’re participating. Like if you didn’t want to get hurt, just stay on the couch, but guess what? Then you’re just going to die. Or like

Steph: I’m laughing because [inaudible] looking at me out of my peripheral vision looking straight at me. His eyes are burning into my skull because we had this conversation not too long ago. Again, we have this conversation all the time because I is, I have a, I have a, I had an old MCL injury from seven years ago. In fact, the great part about that MCL injury is that it’s the reason whyZ and I actually got together. Yeah. So there’s a pause talking of the engagement ring that doesn’t fit on your phone. [inaudible] Jitsu fingers, which is why it’s actually why I was looking cause I was like, well that’s what you get per fighting. Yeah. I sort of tweaked my knee a little bit. Something moved around in there. It didn’t feel great and a buzzy has had this conversation with me many times. He’s like, well you did pick a combat sport to do. And I was like, Oh, that’s true. That’s true.

AJ: And that’s the thing like, just cause you’re hurt mean you have to stop. Like I mean you got to stop using that thing that’s hurt unless you’ve got somebody who’s specialized in taking care of that. But it doesn’t mean stop. Everything just means don’t use that thing. Like you got to avoid pain, but try not to walk around it are limited. Like putting things into like an emo position’s probably gonna make it worse before it makes it better.

Steph: Yeah. Frozen shoulder.

Craig: I was thinking about this like, have you guys ever seen when you’re building a character and this is video building a character and like video games? Oh yeah. Typically it’s represented graphically in a number of different ways. But like usually kind of shaped like us at a square, but like a diamond shape and there’s, you know, different properties like say Northeast, Southwest, whatever, and the, the square will be [inaudible] towards certain things. Right. And I think one of the reasons why when somebody has an injury that pulls them out of the thing, that the dead, it’s because the really weird in that direction. And so the idea of them doing anything else is basically like starting completely from scratch because they don’t have a sort of a general and trace balance to it. It’s like one direction. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So when I, when I think about it, you don’t want to think about either left weightlifting or I think running because you know, some of these are runner or they lift heavy weights or they do weight lifting like effectively or, or I suppose bodybuilding, whatever it is. But then we weighted in that direction, right. And so they don’t have this, they don’t have the ability to go, ah, right, well I’ll need you to lay off that. Maybe I’ll do this other thing. They’re like, Oh, I can’t do that anymore. My life is fucked. I fucked my life. I’m never going to recover from this. Yeah.

AJ: I’ve got a number of clients where it’s just like they push their bodies so hard through their life that they were going before. We really realize the effects of like recovery and like the things we need to do outside of what we’re doing. So they, they’re feeling the effects of being stuck in that one position or doing their one activity their whole life and there’s like, why am I broken? Like I’ve been so healthy my whole life. It’s like well look at the position you were in. Like look at everything that’s your body is doing is like secondary to like what you did to it. Like don’t be mad at your body. Just be like, well that’s what happens when you repetitively do the same thing over and over again. It’s like you’re doing something crazy, expect something crazy to happen.

Steph: I know that people in my community, and I know that people who listen to the show, this has come up so many times

Steph: where an injury happens and the person will, I’m not real clear if they’re rehabbing on their own, just giving it time and then something else will happen. And it seems like they’re caught in this loop of right injury after injury, after injury after injury and they can’t seem to get a foothold. So w um, we were talking about recovery and I still like maybe let’s back up to that first, but you know, what, what should people be considering, cause I know it’s going to be different based on the person, right? And the activity that they’re doing and everything and what their life looks like. But what are some of the key things that you see are kind of missing in people’s movement routine, whether it’s, um, the actual activity itself or what they’re doing to try to act recovery or mobility or stretching. Like what, what are some of the kind of big missteps that you see?

AJ: Definitely like a warmup, like a movement prep scheme, getting your body ready before it’s even ready. Just cause you’re going to go bike doesn’t mean you need to bike for 10 minutes to get ready to bike. Like your whole body, is needs to be warmed up before you warm-up for that sport. So doing things like an active stretch or dynamic stretch cycle where you’re moving all of your joints and making sure those joints are moving healthy. And the other thing is being mindful about moving your body. Like a lot of people just get in there and it’s their time to just shut their mind down and move some things around. It’s like, well you got to feel what your body’s gone through for the day. So like move your hip around and like feel what’s going on in there. Like acknowledge what your body’s feeling when you go through a movement so that you can kind of identify that and see the things that you can do to make a change that if it’s stretching foam rolling icing, like whatever you need to do to try and identify what is limiting you before it becomes a problem.

AJ: And then like do sport, nothing really, you need to adjust for doing your sport. Just do your sport or activity, like have fun with that. But then realize that after the fact, all those things you just did are going to now become like they’re going to feed out into the rest of your day. So you took that hour to like hit on your body. Now take an hour to like kind of undo those things. So the beginning of the warm-up, you’re basically undoing the day, like undo the desk, get away from that desk, then get into your activity. So you’re not trying to fight the desk while you’re trying to fight the bike or fight the weights, whatever you’re doing. Now that you’ve done that, now you’ve got to undo the fight that you just did with your body for that hour. Like go stretch again. But this time like take a little bit more time to sit in those stretches to open up those muscles so they can kind of heal in a more open position. Cause we spend so much time like hammering on certain muscles and then going back into those recoveries, those relaxed positions where everything’s shortened up and then we have to spend our whole life trying to undo all that stuff that we’ve just done.

Steph: [inaudible] what are some of the ones that you see people maybe overdoing it on? Um, in terms of stretching for example, and then under not paying enough attention to,

AJ: I think people overdo foam rolling by not doing it properly. So they’ll sit there on their phones, tell us more. So yeah, like just cause foam rolling is easy. Doesn’t mean you need to be on your phone. It’s boring. Yeah. But like be active in everything you’re doing. Like you’re active in your sport. You’re not on your phone while you’re trying to like take somebody down in jujitsu. Like that’s true. I have not seen that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s going to, you’re going to see it on YouTube next. Like someone’s gonna be like, look, I’m checking my social media armbar but yeah, take time. It’s your time to fill out your body. Like get on that foam roller, fill those tight spots, move around like don’t just roll on and be like, Oh that’s warmed up. And they’re like, find those tight spots and then start moving muscles. And just seeing how much deeper that that pain actually is because it is pain. It’s, you’re trying to inhibit pain with pain so you’re shutting down pain, shutting down everything else. I’m not saying like spend like half an hour on it, like two, three minutes in a spot, move on and then slowly accumulate that over time to where it’s more maintenance instead of like actually a workout.

Steph: I think I remember the first time I ever did a foam roller and it was the really soft one, right? Like the real, the softest of the soft foam rollers on my it bands and I thought I was going to jump out of my skin and

Craig: I would go sideways on a foam roller. Right. Just spear.

AJ: I think it was [inaudible] anyway, on a foam roller right now. He was, yeah,

Steph: no, no. What is your, um, post-workout recovery look like these days? Go and stunned them with this? Yeah. Well, well no, I’m asking because I think a lot of people are in your position and this isn’t to put you on the spot, but it is to being put on the spot. It is to kind of make the point that, you know, in your case, and this is maybe a good case study in Z’s case, he’s lifting during lunch hour at work and then going right back to work. So if somebody has that interrupted workout period is does it, should they do it at home when they get home? I mean, does it matter at that point? Is it too late?

AJ: No. Like do it, like do it whenever you got a chance to like if you only have 1520 minutes to get a workout in, get that workout in, go to your desk, but just realize you’re going to have to work a little harder at the end of the day to like undo that. Use it as like your, I’m going to bed so I’m going to make sure my body’s nice and loose so that I can actually sleep good. So you can wake up and not be like hugging yourself cause your packs are so tight or like curled up in a ball because your hamstrings and quads and hip flexors are just like, we just want to be in a fetal position.

Steph: That’s true. So foam rolling too long or sorry, a foam rolling without mindfulness and sort of paying attention and.

Craig: you’re just interested in the term interception to that?

Steph: Uh, probably. I mean I think there are some people who are more in tune, just how their body is feeling because of either they’re more sensitive to it. Like myself, highly sensitive person. I have that observation of my body. So I can tell,

Steph: I can tell when things are off. Not only can I feel pain, but I can tell it, but not everybody has developed that.

AJ: But that’s a, that’s just like working out. It’s a practice. Yeah, for sure. And like if you’re going to be working out, like taking care of your bodies, part of that. So feeling it and when it’s in pain, not just being like, Oh, it’s not painful today. Like, well it’s not painful in that current position. Like let’s see what you look like in other positions. Try and like look at your posture on a regular basis and just do things to undo like bad posture.

Steph: What do you think would be, um, what are some of your top things for that? I mean, how are people going to, because we’re all sitting, we’re hunched over, we’re driving or on our phones, right? We’re on our computers where you kind of naturally just collapse over a period of time. And even I find I’d have to try to get back into a better position.

AJ: It’s all work. Biggest thing. Pecs, like right off the bat like everyone’s going to have tight pecks the majority of the world tight pecs. So like something as simple as a doorway stretch. Uh, your head, your neck, like we’re all going to get technic used to be called a Dowager’s hump. Now it’s going to be called technic, chin tucks. Just tuck that chin back. Don’t try and poke it out real far. Just tuck it back. Give yourself a nice double chin straight back. Fill your neck, getting tight. Nice little chin tucks.

Steph: We’re both doing it. Is he sitting here staring at us?

AJ: Well, he’s doing it too. We just can’t see the beard.

Craig: I’m just thinking about it. Yeah, it’s interesting. Centrist and how fucking trashed my pecs and shoulders are since getting that gig, like that new job, like how fucking annihilated they are.

Steph: Well and then you, I’ll out you now is that when you’re at home and you’re on your day off, you’re sometimes play a lot of video games and then you’re just like, eh,

Craig: especially when I’m concentrating, I just like end up like hunching over.

AJ: Yeah. We just rest on our bones. It’s easier that way.

Steph: What about feet? Let’s talk about feet. Either complicated, right?

AJ: We all got different feet. Biggest thing is we don’t really use them. We’re disconnected from the world right now. Like we’ve got this nice little cushion protecting us from the world cause we’re afraid of touching the world for some reason.

Craig: What was his name?

Craig: Phillip. Phillip Beach. So it’d be Dr Phillip beach. He called the foot. He called the shoes, foot prison. He was Sophie fucking age shoes broke. It was like,

Steph: This is, this is in New Zealand and we went to HS and Zed in 2015 no, 2015 whatever. Three years, three or four years ago.

Craig: He, I think I told you before, he put the Florida’s kitchen so it was rocks made it

Craig: pebbles and he just walks in his bare feet.

AJ: I have a deep hatred that I have to wear shoes everywhere. Me too. That’s why I worked to UVAs mostly just to like, my feet can at least get some sun. I’ve got to kill her to give a tan as to try it out. Yeah. Fucking here.

Steph So little known fact about Z. I have never, I’ve known Z since 2012 so seven years. Never seen him wear sandals ever.

Craig: I hate them.

Steph He’s barely ever barefoot unless.

Craig: I love being barefoot. I really enjoy being barefoot.

Steph: Well, what were you started? We started taking barefoot walks when the weather was nice.

Craig: Yeah. Which I love. I love doing, I love walking. I love walking barefoot. No reason. Never. I also like sort of really lightweight trail shoes and things like that and I like being barefoot, but fuck, I hate sandals.

AJ: Yeah. I hate the social stigma that I can’t like I have to wear shoes in a gym. I get like there’s like, Oh yeah, this, this nice canvas shoe is going to protect my foot from that weight.

Steph: Well, I give a lot of, so on my Instagram, right whenever I post, so first of all, if people don’t know, I usually lift weights at the jujitsu Academy, which is basically a shoe-free zone. Right? We can technically wear shoes in that way area if we wanted. I just fucking hate shoes B. I just don’t feel like bringing a separate pair of shoes with me to then put on and lift weights afterward. C, I like the feeling of, and it’s okay for me to lift barefoot there and I know my limits really well rather than strength training for straight for over a decade. Like I, I’m pretty clear about that.

Steph: But the number of people who are very concerned that I’m not wearing shoes is very interesting.

AJ: Like what’s the biggest complaint? Like thing that they say, is it like, they call it health and safety.

Steph: We’re on sweaty mats already, so that’s not a health and safety. It’s not prevention.

AJ: Yeah. Let’s say this, like you’re worried about your foot touching a mat, but are you going to do a pushup on that man and let your face get like, you know, almost on it?

Steph: I think it’s a, you’re going to smash your feet and to you, you know what I’m saying? Like you’re going to, and I’m, I don’t know if you remember Josh, uh, one of our weightlifters, right? He broke his cuboid bone in his foot. He was wearing heavy weightlifting shoes. Yeah, right. The bar, just freak accident fell on his foot.

Craig: Well, I mean that was like Liz emphasize how freak that three backward. Eh, he fell backward on the weights bounced. Just sideways. I’m like landed on his,

Steph: The shoe did fucking nothing to protect his foot . The shoes don’t do anything.

Steph: like, and then I’ve seen um, people I’ve seen. Did you just bang your knee on the table?

AJ: Well it wouldn’t have hurt if you were wearing shoes.

Steph: I’ve heard some people who say, you know, if, if you don’t wear shoes you’re being irresponsible. Yeah. As a, as a coach or a trainer or as a responsible is responsible.

AJ: I mean sometime when I was coaching and I didn’t wear shoes, yeah, I don’t care.

Steph: Yeah. I mean I get some, some gems, right? Like you said, you work in in 24 right now I’ll have that policy. That’s just the policy. Fine. But you know, if I’m working out on my porch and there’s no real good reason, sometimes in the summer when it’s really hot I have to wear, I’ll wear Toms or something. Cause you don’t want you for support.

Craig: I’m debating like putting on like neoprene socks and just walking around to those and see if anybody says anything.

Steph Yeah. So you know one of them,

Craig: you could be one of those people and end up winning those

Craig: 12 shoes. What are they called? Oh, like the toe. Vibram five fingers.

AJ: I want you [inaudible] they’re also just too bulky. I want something that’s literally like, I’m going to, if I have to put something on my foot, I’d like, I’d like it to just be like the silicone glove that just slides. Right. Okay, fair enough.

Steph: You should, we should.

AJ: [inaudible] fingers were just like a silicone-like, and they,

Craig: you can just Fordanet in Gingy and be like, Hey, in Jenji Tetra silks, could you, could you sort of appear a pair of a pin, a deadlifted socks for me.

Steph: So how much stop are people’s feet in general when you see them? And I don’t mean in a judgy way, but I just mean I, you know, decreased function. I judge everything. I’m judging you. If I see you walk down the street, it’s like judgment in a good way. So it’s the good judgment. What are, what are people struggling with feet right now?

AJ: We’ll go use wiggle your fingers and then try and wiggle your toes and then wonder why you can’t wiggle your toes. That’s cause he use your feet. Like let’s just go outside and like try and grab things with your toes, walk in the sand, go walk in the sand and see how sore your few get true fan in the same amount of time. Take your hands and just start grabbing the sand and see how sore your hands aren’t. Like we use our hands because they’re meant to be used and like our feet are meant to like be tactile and like move around the world. But then we put it in these protective features because everybody’s worried or like worried or like stepping on something. I understand it like the world’s got hazards out there but it’s a dangerous place but people are so unaware of their feet.

AJ: Like one of the biggest things I noticed when we were going through just like general balance training, seeing people do balance training, they have to like look down and look at their foot and the, I just looked at him, I’m like, have you not been raised with those things? Do you not know where they’re at? People just have no general awareness of what their feet are cause they don’t know what it feels like to actually touch the ground. Like they’ll walk around their house, but it’s like getting outside, stepping in, grasped. I see people like so hesitant step on grass or even just step out on like the curb. Hmm.

Craig: That’s weird. Yeah. Yeah.

Steph: I would be barefoot 24 seven if I could buy for you. And I pretty much am other than when I have to go places

Steph: where I have to wear shoes.

Craig: But also I like their Sultan that looks really stupid about people walking about and socks as well. Like it looks fucking stupid. Like if I see socks that are like pulled up American and style, I’m like that person. Loose line idea. Please note that. Crazy. Alinsky’s opinion may not represent the opinion of the harder to kill radio podcasts in general. He has some very strong opinions. I do have stolen socks pulled up. You look like an idiot, so get shorter socks that you can see so that it looks like you’ve just put your feet and your shits.

AJ: How high is too high?

Craig: What’s it called? It’s called. It’s called. I don’t know how American I that’s the one. Yeah, like Walmart, crew socks. I got my sneakers and my pulled up sacks. It just looks so dumb. I hate that.

Craig: So everyone’s stopping in LA. Please.

AJ: Do you have my son’s gloves?

Craig: No. Interestingly I don’t. No, I don’t. I’d also think fingerless gloves. Any kind of thumb type thing. Looks cool. I like that. I think that’s a good look.

AJ: Oh, you like that.

Craig: I think it looks great. I think like, you know who these that have got a thumb lip and your fingers are out. That looks fucking great.

AJ: Now what about weightlifting gloves?

Craig: I would not get tired punching someone who was willing. We’re left on gloves.

AJ: It’s like one of my personal favorites to see people in the gym and like as a little clothing as possible, but then they put on weightlifting gloves. Who loves, look,

Steph: I, I used to, I used to wear a glove taking my hand. I used to wear gloves like when I first, this is when I was 20 so 20 years ago and I would go and, and lift cause I thought it was actually helping me with my grip, but it is interrupting the feedback.

AJ: So if you’ve left, you get when you’re lifting it’s like shoes for you, right? Yes.

Craig: Shoes for your hands or shoes for your feet.

AJ: We would all lose our shit. We had to wear gloves all the time because guess what? We wouldn’t be able to touch our phones.

Steph: Well we have those, those are they outdoor reset, those, those, have you used those?

Craig: Yeah. No. Yeah. You just need to find somebody who knows which ones to acquire.

AJ: Maybe it’s just because they don’t work on my iPhone six so.

Steph: Hey, let’s talk about some simple foot strengthening things. Then you mentioned going and walking on sand, but if somebody doesn’t have sand nearby, can they start? So walk on grass. What if it’s really super cold and snowy cause it is the winter. Like a scrunched up towel.

AJ: Yeah. Scratched up towel. Grab a blanket with your feet and just bunch it up. Push it around, grab some rocks, pick them up with your toes, grab some marbles.

Steph: What about like that ball? You see that like spiky ball that we have? What do you, what’s your opinion on this? The spiky balls and golf balls and rolling your feet and all that stuff.

AJ: Yes. Roll your feet. Take, get a water. Like if you don’t have anything special, get a water bottle. It has ridges on it. Throw it in the freezer and then roll your foot out on that. Like it’ll be the most enjoyable thing you’ve done in your day. Do you? What feet will? Thank you.

Craig: Do you know what I’ve discovered recently? What I discovered some of my workmates had absolutely no idea what a hot water bottle was,

Craig: Oh yeah, like absolutely no idea.

Craig: Yeah, they were like, what? What’s the hook? What’s the hot water bottle? And I was like, you know, you fill up a water boiling water and you put it in your bed. All right? You put boiling water on your bed. They were just utterly confused by.

AJ: Every place we went in Europe had a hot water bottle in their house. Yeah. But some of them, you can’t find them here. No. And if you do, they’re like crap.

Steph: Probably find it on Amazon, CVS.

AJ: But they’re crap.

Steph: Yes. Okay. So scrunched up towel. Just start playing around, picking things up with your feet. Um, also I’m, I’m rolling.

Craig: You see what I do on my feet? Sometimes I just grabbed them right and I just like, just roll, move them or I just move them around.

AJ: Move your toes around, like grab your big toe, grab the toe next to it, like up near the middle of your foot and just move your bones apart from each other and see how good that feels. Yeah,

Steph: I sometimes put my fingers in between my toes. I know I had Zeev tried to do that and he was not having this keynote.

Craig: It’s kinda miserable. You need to feels good. Yeah. Once you do it, once you can get used to it. It’s like anything else. Do you know what I mean? It’s the same thing as they, I think the closest thing I can sign, call off the couch stretch. But when people force

Craig: do the couch stretch, that eyes are popping out their head and they’re like, this is the worst thing ever. I’ll never be able to do this. And then you look at them two weeks later and they can almost pin their back up against the wall. And you know what, it’s just a completely different thing.

AJ: Or the 10 minutes squad test. Yeah. Oh yeah. That one’s been missed. I love doing that. One is, and also, what is it?

Steph: Which one? The 10-minute squat tests.

AJ: Get into a squat and stay there. Just a bodyweight squat and just stay there for 10 minutes or try and accumulate 10 minutes. So if you have to come out, she probably will stand up, but then go back down and then just feel it like you’re, you’re gonna, you’re gonna feel where your tightness is in your body. And you’re also gonna realize how low you can’t go on a squat.

Steph So in a lot of the folks in my community are talking about squatting. The common assessment self-assessment is that there is that ankles are too tight. Like my ankles are tight. What do we do about tight ankles? Stop wearing shoes. So actually go back five minutes actually. What about high heels?

AJ: Fuck high heels. Okay. Yeah.

AJ: Yeah. Like they are the devil. I don’t care if you think they make you look good, they’re going to wreck your life. Like you’re going to have hip problems. You have knee problems, you’re gonna have ankle problems,

Craig: toe problems as well because typically your sliding all your feet and to a punched wedge, right?

Steph: Like, yeah, I haven’t worn heels.

Craig So you end up with like fucking,

Steph: I haven’t worn heels a long time, but when I went back to New York in September and I went to Marie Forleo’s book launch party, I was wearing the gold disco ball dress, which a lot of people were like, yay, this is amazing. And I wore heels for the first time in, I can’t even tell you how much my legs hurt. Everything hurt and I very much regretted it.

AJ: Talking about a fit person that like moves on a regular basis. Now imagine just somebody who’s gotten their body comfortable to being in high heels. There’s no person that I’ve ever met that get takes off high heels and they’re like, Oh I feel fine.

Steph: Oh

AJ: I literally watch. Like I worked for my, I worked with my wife to set up weddings and there’s every woman that has to put on high heels, they put them on for the pictures,

AJ: they take them off, they need a second pair of shoes for the wedding.

AJ: Like nobody, like there’s good over there. Like image factor. Like you probably will look better walking around in like a flat or like a wedge, whatever, like looks a little bit better. Like, get out of the stupid high heels.

Steph: So high heels really not making mobility any better? No. What are they doing to our, our legs, our muscles?

Craig: I’m actually going to design some shoes that are reverse heels. So, so basically their toes, the heels at the front, like walking up. Oh my gosh. Hell, that’s going to be my amazing, no,

AJ: yeah. Yeah. So first off, you’ve got to stretch those calves. Those guys are going to be so tight. So just an easy like wall stretch. Get your toes up against a wall and try to keep a straight leg. You should be able to get your hip to the wall. But most people can barely get their hip past their knee. Uh, try and keep it in a straight leg. If you don’t have like a wall that you feel comfortable, stack some books up, put them against a wall and put your foot on the books. You don’t want to put your foot on a book. Do it on a step.

Steph: You can put it on the core four. Embrace your body on your power. So there you go. I’m okay with that.

Craig: So that’s a great idea. That’s why everyone should buy that book. That’s, yep, that’s a great chapter. 12 page. I don’t even know. Fair enough. Plug anyway. Okay.

AJ: Stretch your calves. Next thing like your hips are going to be out of whack cause you’ve been standing on your toes. So this creates, I know women hate to say it, but you’re like your high heels are giving you a pooch. They’re creating a pooch. Like you’re getting an anterior pelvic tilt so your hips are rolling forward. So now you’re like, Oh, why does my belly look like round? It’s because you’re high heels and then you spend your whole life trying to get rid of that pooch. But guess what? That pooch is an anatomical problem. It’s not like a physiological problem. Fix your posture. Your posture is what’s creating it. It’s, I mean, I can’t speak for everybody, but 90% of the people that are complaining about it probably walk around in high heels and have bad hits.

Steph: Okay. So backflow back, pain aside, we’re just going up the chain here, but aside from, okay, let’s, let’s say aside from animal anatomical issues like bulging discs and things like that, right? But that degeneration, if the, if the sore back, the back pain is sort of muscular in nature, that sort of stuff, or just positional like postural, what are some simple things that people can do to get themselves, um, out of that pain a little bit or alleviate some of that pain?

AJ: First thing, practice your breathing. Learn diaphragmatic breathing. Go on. Next TVA activation, learning how to post early tilt that anteriorly rotated hip. What’s the TVA for? People who don’t know? Franz verse Seb. Donna’s. Okay. That’s going to be your belt. Like we all have this great belt built into our bodies. It’s not meant to bring our chest to our knees. It’s meant to stabilize that whole upper body. So like being able to stabilize that pelvis and move around through the world will make everything move that much easier. Next, making sure your hip flexors are stretched cause they’re most likely going to be short and weak from sitting. Yes, hamstrings as well. Those are going to be nice and long or sorry. They’re going to be nice and short and tight.

AJ: Yeah, because we sit so long we don’t use them. Everybody thinks that they’re going to that your hamstring Benz, your knee. What’s primarily actually there to help extend your hip? Yeah, so if you’ve got tight hips and you’ve got tight hip flexors, guess what? They’re battling against each other. You’re trying to bend your hip, bring your knee to your chest, your hamstrings are stopping that, so stretch your hamstrings. Hip flexor. Stretch pretty easy one. Just get into a lunge. Reach up overhead. The couch stretch full. Really get in there. If you don’t know the couch, stretch, look it up. It’s easy. Google couch stretch.

Craig: Never Google anything. Never used Google. Ever use duck duck.

Craig: They’re laughing. Bus not just don’t. Fucking is very stop using. Google.

Steph: Z very serious about isn’t there an eco-friendly?

AJ: Is that duck duck go the eco-friendly search engine,

Craig: eh, Duck, Duck, go Is privacy friendly?

AJ: Okay.

Craig: It also gives you the result, the actual result rather than what is being curated for you. If I don’t know whoZ is, it’s because he’s not on the internet. [inaudible] that’s about what problem. You can just put my name and then plus sorts of effects, which sucks.

AJ: I’ll Google that handsome fellow.

Steph: So couch, stretch him a hip flexors, that sort of stuff.

AJ: Those are your big primary ones. Like people think their quads are tides, but it’s more than likely their

AJ: hip flexor. So calves if flexor and strings. Cool core activation planks, do planks, do planks, no crunches, stay away from crunches. Planks are repeating miserable planks are amazing if they’re.

Craig: I don’t like doing planks because I find them difficult because I don’t do planks.

AJ: So you want that back to be nice and level glutes nice and engaged. See a lot of people pushing their butts up to the sky and their park. Yeah, yeah. Or letting their scapular like Wang. Yeah. So the scapula, that nice bone on the back, upper back. That’s the core of your shoulder. If that thing’s all over the place, guess what? That’s probably why you have arm problems, shoulder problems while your hands go asleep, when you’re trying to get anything overhead set. Scheduling. And no proper position. So

Craig: People who think they don’t have good ankle mobility when they squat also probably have never had the brain connected to the hamstrings. Excellent. So typically in my experience, it takes 90 minutes to get someone from, I have bad ankle mobility to all I can do a full squat and because they have to learn quite a full squat as, because what I see typically as they’ll squat down to paddle L like when they’ve got the maximum amount of like that 90 degrees angle where they’ve got like their, their quads are fully engaged and as soon as they get past that they think they’re going to fall back into the abyss because none of the posterior chain is connected to the brain and.

Steph Well. Can we just talk about the fact that it’s been cued for so long in so many different places that you need to squat in, in your heels and lift your toes up?

AJ: Yeah. The idea of the knees not going past the toes.

Steph: Oh, let’s see. Do you want to see me rage? Yeah.

Craig: That old Chestnut. Remember that? The knees, if the knees go over your toe’s, then that’s bad.

Steph: I did a, I did a video in my, in the core four club on, on Facebook, go join the group. Um, recently talking about that and sort of, we have this unholy combination, right, of being afraid to let the knees come forward at all coupled with staying in the heel. So there’s no foot like out all your weight’s already back and you’re not letting your knees come forward. So it ends up being your hip hinge, right. Without a knee flection. And then if it’s weighted, the chest is diving cause you have to counterbalance the fact that your ass is way out the back. Right. And so whenever I talk about this, um, people are like, Oh yeah, I was told to squat in my heels and I’m like, I get it. I get it. If you’re like the most ultra beginner and people are trying to keep you off your toes but also squatting in your toes like a sissy squat is, that’s a type of squat, right? It’s just not necessarily what you would do if you’re brand new to squat.

Craig: Ask him about rest in school. My resting and squat as an out on your toes. Oh, hang out. I’ll hang out on my toes.

Steph: So yes, please don’t squat with your toes lifted off the floor.

AJ: Just make sure your knees track between your second and third toe. Go forward and you’re fine. [inaudible] imagine your shin and back. Keep the same angle. Great.

Craig: [inaudible] like that. A wonderful time for under the title. Like it’d be like, you know, like that shit. Imagine that shape person. Yeah. If you can’t see it then that’s your fault. Try harder.

AJ: So if you have trouble with it, try and keep, take a PVC pipe rested on your back, one hand in the small of your back, one hand in your neck. And when you get down to the bottom, that angle that your back is at should be the same as your shin. And if it’s not, just think of all that added pressure you’re putting on your lower back because in a seated position, the pressure on your lower back is about 150 times that of standing. Oh wow. And then leaning forward by about 10 degrees, I think it increases to 200% and then a full 90 degrees is like 300% increase in that lower back. Wow. So the more you can keep that angle, the same as the shin, the less pressure you’re actually putting that lower back. But then we get into overarching, overarching that lower back. So then you’re just compressing discs and that’s a great chore to undo. Yeah.

Steph: Next time when AJ visits the show, we’ll talk about overarching hyperextension, lower back compression skin scapula traps. Okay. So we’ll, we’ll calendar it in. We’ll pencil it in. We’ll have you back and we’ll talk about some of this stuff.

AJ: So let’s recap today.

AJ: Use your body. Enjoy that you’re using your body. Just because you’re hurt doesn’t mean you’re injured. Keep working the love what you do.

Craig: Don’t pull up. Don’t,

Steph: don’t wear sandals. Don’t wear crew socks with sandals.

Craig: Don’t wear shoes.

AJ: I forgot my crew socks. Damn it.

Steph: Oh, this has been so fun. Well, thanks for coming to the show. AAJ. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. And I know that the people you get to work with are very lucky to have you. Um, your clients are in good hands.

AJ: I appreciate that. Thank you. You’re welcome. And get steps book. It is amazing.

Steph: I didn’t tell him to say that book.

AJ: It is a well-versed book. Thank you. General education, men or women, if you’re training women, get it. Yeah, that’s a good point. Women are the biggest missed opportunity in this world.

Steph: Yeah. Build strong women. I love it. All right, thanks, guys.

Steph: There you go. That’s a wrap on episode 263 with Aj Evans and my husband. The illustrious J Craig Zelinski better known as Z. He is the most popular podcast guest I think of all time. He does have a cool accent now he doesn’t have any brothers. That’s for Jen. If you’re listening to this show, you know who you are, but it was a real pleasure to be able to sit down with them and hopefully bring you some practical advice or just moving through your daily life with less pain, fewer aches and pains and approaching movement in a way that’s a lot more sustainable for you and your life. To get the transcript for this show, head over to Steph gaudreau.com airy confined links. You can find everything we talked about in the episode and you can also find yes, the transcript if you prefer to read, so head over there, check it out.

Steph: I will be back on next week’s episode solo kind of closing out 2019 with some important deep thoughts and then the week after that first full week of January, dr Jen Hostler is going to be on the show. We’re talking all about strength training. Barbells are they the like cats, me out all the time, body image, and so much more. So that’s what is to come. Please stay tuned for that and also hit subscribe on your podcast app. You can do it right now. Go ahead and hit subscribe. That is awesome. Thank you. That’s going to help the show to automatically show up in your device every week, every time it’s published. And I just appreciate that so very much. All right. Until next week when I’m back on the solo show, the UL, and I hope you have a happy holiday.

Many of the links on this blog are affiliate links. Steph Gaudreau receives a small commission when certain items are purchased, but the price is the same for you. Steph Gaudreau participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. For more details, view my privacy policy.

The Core 4: Embrace Your Body, Own Your Power Is Here!

Build Your Health and Confidence without Crash Diets

Forget bikini body promises that don’t last, weight-loss jumpstarts, and crash diets. Give yourself the gift of a strong body and a clear mind with sustainable habits. Order today and get a thank you bonus from me!

Comments

Sasha Udengaardsays:

Omfg! I laughed so damn hard at y’all! Your husband is hilarious. One comment on wearing gloves when you lift, I have pressure utacartia and get welts on my hands from pressure so sometimes I have to use gloves.

About Steph Gaudreau

Steph Gaudreau, BS, MA, NTP, is a Nutritional Therapy Practitioner and strength training expert helping women around the world trust themselves more deeply with food and exercise. Her latest book, The Core 4 is an Amazon #1 best-seller.