Did you see the diving attempt? Oh my God he must have taken a bad route. Could anyone describe the route he took? Now we have even more problems in CF.

IA_soxfan

05-16-2004, 08:43 PM

At least Willie has the speed and agility necessary to recover from taking a poor route and still make the play. Rowand certainly can't claim that amongst his credentials as a fielder.

MRKARNO

05-16-2004, 08:43 PM

I dont know what the point of this thread is. I'm assuming it's a pro-Harris thread though, but I could be wrong....

pearso66

05-16-2004, 11:24 PM

I don't know, I think its a pro rowand thread. I'd give Willie a few more games in CF before critisizing him, he hasnt played the OF his whole career, and hasnt played it at all this year

SEALgep

05-16-2004, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by IA_soxfan
At least Willie has the speed and agility necessary to recover from taking a poor route and still make the play. Rowand certainly can't claim that amongst his credentials as a fielder. Actually his credentials do speak well of him as a fielder. People that don't like him say the stats are misleading, not bad.

Randar68

05-16-2004, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Dub25
Did you see the diving attempt? Oh my God he must have taken a bad route. Could anyone describe the route he took? Now we have even more problems in CF.

Are you this ignorant to have to put down another player out of spite and for no cause just to try to prop up a red herring argument about Rowand's defensive 'abilities'???

both pathetic AND petty.

pearso66

05-16-2004, 11:40 PM

SEAL, he was actually responding to Dub, not you

SEALgep

05-16-2004, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by pearso66
SEAL, he was actually responding to Dub, not you Lol, you're right. My bad.

Randar68

05-16-2004, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by pearso66
SEAL, he was actually responding to Dub, not you

yep. someone's a tad testy.

What's wrong, sEAL? Are you a little over-whelmed by the "silent' majority finally speaking up against your quest?

SEALgep

05-16-2004, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
yep. someone's a tad testy.

What's wrong, sEAL? Are you a little over-whelmed by the "silent' majority finally speaking up against your quest? No, I just thought you quoted me for some reason. But the insults are really starting to look petty on your part. And besides, the likes and don't likes are fairly even.

Randar68

05-16-2004, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by SEALgep
No, I just thought you quoted me for some reason. But the insults are really starting to look petty on your part. And besides, the likes and don't likes are fairly even.

I look bad for beinig an ass. You look bad for making yourself look this oblivious.

I'll take 'ass'... thanks.

SEALgep

05-17-2004, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Randar68
I look bad for beinig an ass. You look bad for making yourself look this oblivious.

I'll take 'ass'... thanks. Wouldn't it be better if you just made good points for your argument instead of resulting to insults though. If you're clearly right, wouldn't the information you provide be more effective than saying I've seen him play, he sucks, you're stupid? That's the way I see it, but everyone's different I suppose.

OurBitchinMinny

05-17-2004, 01:03 AM

How are there still people who are fans of rowand? How can you honestly make an argument that him being in the lineup is best for this team. Its not. He sucks. Harris may not be perfect, but he has shown to be a better hitter than rowand. The jury's out on the fielding, but rowand was nothing special out there.

SoxxoS

05-17-2004, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by SEALgep
Wouldn't it be better if you just made good points for your argument instead of resulting to insults though. If you're clearly right, wouldn't the information you provide be more effective than saying I've seen him play, he sucks, you're stupid? That's the way I see it, but everyone's different I suppose.

I just had that argument with him...it must be an ASU thing.

SEALgep

05-17-2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by ChisoxfaninMinny
How are there still people who are fans of rowand? How can you honestly make an argument that him being in the lineup is best for this team. Its not. He sucks. Harris may not be perfect, but he has shown to be a better hitter than rowand. The jury's out on the fielding, but rowand was nothing special out there. I'm not arguing for him to be in the lineup. I'm excited for Reed to come up whenever the Sox feel he's ready. Also, I don't mind giving Willie a shot in center to be able to keep him and Uribe in the lineup. The only argument I'm making is that I feel Rowand is a good defender.

SEALgep

05-17-2004, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by SoxxoS
I just had that argument with him...it must be an ASU thing. Must be, lol. :D:

Scotty347

05-17-2004, 09:40 AM

I thought Willie did a nice job in CF considering it was the first day he's been there the entire year. On that dive he was there it just looked like he whiffed on the ball.

The big difference with him in CF is on one play the ball was hit to the fence for what looked to be extra bases and he ran it down. None of our other outfielders would have come close on that one. The advantage of Willie out there is he doesn't have to play so deep with his speed. Its amazing how many singles we give up because we play with our outfielders standing on the warning track.

Randar68

05-17-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Scotty347
I thought Willie did a nice job in CF considering it was the first day he's been there the entire year. On that dive he was there it just looked like he whiffed on the ball.

The big difference with him in CF is on one play the ball was hit to the fence for what looked to be extra bases and he ran it down. None of our other outfielders would have come close on that one. The advantage of Willie out there is he doesn't have to play so deep with his speed. Its amazing how many singles we give up because we play with our outfielders standing on the warning track.

Yep. Another great point. How many balls in front of Rowand does he have absolutely NO chance on?

Don't worry, he'll be "fine"...

UGH.

Gumshoe

05-17-2004, 11:38 AM

Willie might be OK, but he's not like AR. You have no support, Randar, except for your (obviously ridiculous) opinion. Where is anything else? Rowand makes all the plays. He gets the job done. There's more to D than what you are looking at, at times. Ever think that Rowand has better instincts and is in the right place at the right time BEFORE the hit? YOu don't know what you are talking about. Just gauge how many balls one gets to. You probably say that Valentin is a below avg. shortstop, too, even though he gets to 30 more balls a year than Jeter does, and has a better arm. Results Randar. Not foolish opinions, which you are wrong on, anyway.

Gumshoe

Fungo

05-17-2004, 11:38 AM

Even if Willie plays the same brutal defense, which he won't, as AAAron, he is hitting right now. AAAron is not.
Yesterday's line-up, save Lee and Olivo for Gload and Alomar, is our best line-up, IMO.

Randar68

05-17-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Gumshoe
Willie might be OK, but he's not like AR. You have no support, Randar, except for your (obviously ridiculous) opinion. Where is anything else? Rowand makes all the plays. He gets the job done. There's more to D than what you are looking at, at times. Ever think that Rowand has better instincts and is in the right place at the right time BEFORE the hit? YOu don't know what you are talking about. Just gauge how many balls one gets to. You probably say that Valentin is a below avg. shortstop, too, even though he gets to 30 more balls a year than Jeter does, and has a better arm. Results Randar. Not foolish opinions, which you are wrong on, anyway.

Gumshoe

:prozac

idseer

05-17-2004, 11:43 AM

my 2 cents ...

i'm a rowand fan.
i think he's a pretty good fielder.

i also think he's not hitting like i'd hoped he would. this being the case, i'd rather have willie in center, allowing uribe to play full time as opposed to what happened vs minnesota.

if rowand doesn't hit he should ride the pines.

SEALgep

05-17-2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Randar68
:prozac Ozzie must be on drugs too, huh? He said in the Sun Times today that move was purely for offensive reasons. He acknowledged Rowand as a good defender.

Randar68

05-17-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by SEALgep
Ozzie must be on drugs too, huh? He said in the Sun Times today that move was purely for offensive reasons. He acknowledged Rowand as a good defender.

1) Do you think Ozzie, or Hawk, or Farmer, etc are going to say he's a bad defender? He's a "teammate", a "coworker", etc. Do you think anybody is going to publicly criticize them like that? Sheeesh, how naive are you?

2) Saying Willie was in for offensive reasons does not correlate to saying Rowand is a good CF'er. That's fuzzy logic.

EDIT: I'm going to let this thread die, basically, because it's an injustice to Willie, and was started out of malice. Have your say, SEAL or joecrede, but let it die.

Fungo

05-17-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by SEALgep
Ozzie must be on drugs too, huh? He said in the Sun Times today that move was purely for offensive reasons. He acknowledged Rowand as a good defender.

Pretty sad then when your second baseman's defensive ability is compared to AAAron's, a natural OF. Face it fellas, Willie plays as good, if not better defense than AAAron, his batting average is nearly .100 points higher, is left handed and is a base stealing threat.

SEALgep

05-17-2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
1) Do you think Ozzie, or Hawk, or Farmer, etc are going to say he's a bad defender? He's a "teammate", a "coworker", etc. Do you think anybody is going to publicly criticize them like that? Sheeesh, how naive are you?

2) Saying Willie was in for offensive reasons does not correlate to saying Rowand is a good CF'er. That's fuzzy logic.

EDIT: I'm going to let this thread die, basically, because it's an injustice to Willie, and was started out of malice. Have your say, SEAL or joecrede, but let it die. You brought it up, so I would advise you to drop it as well. But to answer your question, why wouldn't they say he is a bad defender, when they said he has been playing bad offensively? That's a public criticisim. However, they do recognize him as a good defender. No one said anything about Harris being a better offensive presence for us having anything to do with Rowand being a good fielder. You made that correlation, but I don't know how. And if I'm getting ridiculous, then so is Ozzie. I don't agree with that obviously.

SEALgep

05-17-2004, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Fungo
Pretty sad then when your second baseman's defensive ability is compared to AAAron's, a natural OF. Face it fellas, Willie plays as good, if not better defense than AAAron, his batting average is nearly .100 points higher, is left handed and is a base stealing threat. I'm not debating whether or not Willie can play CF very well, and I do acknowledge that from an offensive perspective, Willie has obviously been much better. I'm all for Willie getting a shot at CF so Uribe can play. The only argument I've made was that Rowand can play the field well. With that said however, the fact that Willie is a natural second baseman has little impact to me. The guy is a great athlete with above average speed. He has played the CF before, and has been practicing there as well. My only point about that statement is that it doesn't really say anything detrimental to Rowand if Willie can play CF well. If anything, that speaks negatively towards Willie because it implies that he isn't that good at CF, just better than Rowand. I don't see it that way.

SoxxoS

05-17-2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Fungo
Pretty sad then when your second baseman's defensive ability is compared to AAAron's, a natural OF. Face it fellas, Willie plays as good, if not better defense than AAAron, his batting average is nearly .100 points higher, is left handed and is a base stealing threat.

At least give Aaron another "A" on his name...I think he is at least a AAAA player... :D:

Dub25

05-17-2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
Are you this ignorant to have to put down another player out of spite and for no cause just to try to prop up a red herring argument about Rowand's defensive 'abilities'???

both pathetic AND petty.

Gee somebody can't take a joke. But I guess it's ok for you to start a red herring argument about Rowand everytime he makes a bad play. You want everyone to side with you but if anyone disagrees you want to poke fun at their opinion like a playground bully. Was this a stupid thread, you're damn right it was. I was having a little fun with it because all the other Rowand threads were a little ridculous. This team has a few other problems than CF. The main one being everytime this team sees the words Minnesota or Twins on the front of a uniform they choke. And for the record I was for giving Rowand a shot but the guy isn't hitting and that's killing the team more than his defense. I'm all for letting Willie play CF especially if it keeps Uribe in the lineup. All I want is the best lineup on the field that will produce W's and right now that appears having a lineup with Willie in Cf and Uribe at 2nd. So call me ignorant if you want and insult Sealgap's intelligence some more if it makes you happy.

Randar68

05-17-2004, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Dub25
Gee somebody can't take a joke. But I guess it's ok for you to start a red herring argument about Rowand everytime he makes a bad play.

Well, talk about a contradiction in terms. How can it be a Red Herring if it happens so regularly?

If you have a point about Rowand, make it. Otherwise, don't disparage another player for the sake of propping-up a scarecrow.

Dub25

05-17-2004, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
Well, talk about a contradiction in terms. How can it be a Red Herring if it happens so regularly?

If you have a point about Rowand, make it. Otherwise, don't disparage another player for the sake of propping-up a scarecrow.

Did you read the rest of the post or do you read what you want to and ignore the rest?

joecrede

05-17-2004, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
Well, talk about a contradiction in terms. How can it be a Red Herring if it happens so regularly?

We've been over this, but It doesn't happen regularly.

Randar68

05-17-2004, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Dub25
Did you read the rest of the post or do you read what you want to and ignore the rest?

I read the whole thing, thanks. I only offerred comment on that part of it.

Dub25

05-17-2004, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
I read the whole thing, thanks. I only offerred comment on that part of it.

Then you would have seen what I said about Rowand.

Randar68

05-17-2004, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Dub25
Then you would have seen what I said about Rowand.

How does the rest of your post change my comment on your opening statement? It doesn't.

Dub25

05-17-2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Randar68
How does the rest of your post change my comment on your opening statement? It doesn't.