Strikeforce's October Surprise?

September 11, 2009

Franklin McNeil of the Newark Star Ledger and ESPN’s (excellent) MMA Live was the first to break the rumor that Brett Rogers would face the consensus best heavyweight in the world, Fedor Emelianenko, on October 10 at the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey. Earlier this week came news that Showtime had cleared a block of time for live programming the night of October 10, which seemed also to point in the direction of a live Strikeforce show. Showtime Adds Strikeforce Listing

Payout Perspective:

As the second week of September comes to a close, it seems more and more unlikely that there will be a Strikeforce show on October 10.

Many presume that Strikeforce has delayed official announcement of the show to make it more difficult for UFC to offer live counter-programming that night. I guess it’s possible that Scott Coker is cowering in fear at Dana’s declaration of war, but I’m not sure his fear isn’t misplaced here.

Sure, we’ve read that UFC is prepared to counter with a secret live show that’s ready to go, but even if that’s true, UFC countering Strikeforce (i) adds to the publicity for the night, as more media will pay attention to Fedor vs. UFC than would otherwise with Fedor on Showtime alone, which could lead to more eyes watching that night in general, and more eyes watching Showtime than there would be without UFC countering, and (ii) hurts Zuffa because there already is a WEC show scheduled for October 10 airing live on Versus, so Zuffa would not only compete against Strikeforce, but would also counter itself — a grand strategy, indeed.

Beyond this, unless an announcement is made today, I can’t see Fedor/Rogers happening on October 10. I guess it’s possible that a bunch of fighters have entered or are about to enter secret training camp, as the date is four weeks from Saturday, but that seems unlikely.

Moreover, maybe in his utter fear Scott Coker has forgotten about this, but he might want to consider how he’s going to fill the Prudential Center with people paying for seats. Again, the fights will allegedly occur four weeks from Saturday. There’s been no official announcement, one doesn’t seem forthcoming, so at best it seems that something could be said early next week, which leaves fewer than four weeks to sell tickets, not to mention market the show (Brett who?) to the New York Metro area.

Like I said, I guess it’s possible that Coker has lost his senses and forgotten about all this because he’s worried that Dana White not only wants to kill Strikeforce, but wants to obtain some kind of Pyrrhic victory in destroying UFC sister promotion WEC, too.

Seriously, Coker, what you should be doing is scheduling EVERY major Strikeforce show against WEC, just to fight back a bit. Let Dana counter himself, or let Zuffa keep changing WEC dates. Either way, at least you’d be an irritant.

Right now, if you really have a show planned but still unannounced for October 10, your promotion is exactly what Dana claims it is, nothing more than a joke, a dead promotion walking: Strikefarce.

“Right now, if you really have a show planned but still unannounced for October 10, your promotion is exactly what Dana claims it is, nothing more than a joke, a dead promotion walking: Strikefarce.”

– David Wolf

What I find funny is all the people that want to see a Strikeforce versus UFC war, but guess what. It ain’t going to happen.

People aren’t realizing that they have a show to put on Sept. 25, which is only a few weeks from today, and would only be a few weeks before an Oct. 10th show. A lot of assumptions are being made, that SF is scared or that Coker doesn’t know what he is doing. Really? These guys know what the other promotion is doing days or weeks before the media even gets a whiff of it.

Strikeforce is still a company who is in transition from a regional promotion to a bigger promotion trying to sign more talent and put on more shows. Just look at the UFC and see how incredibly tough the logistics of putting on 2 shows a month is, and Zuffa is much bigger than Strikeforce.

People need to relax, give Strikeforce time to get their feet under them, and let them do what they need to do to be successful. Everyone is craving to see a war, but in this instance, there really isn’t one.

Sure it is unavoidable that the UFC will go head to head with Strikeforce, but I ask you, so what? UFC 100 replay was shown against Gina vs Carano and it didn’t prevent it from being a huge success. This is what we should be focusing. Strikeforce does not need to “strike” or escalate a war they don’t need to be in to still be successful.

Brain Smasher on
September 11th, 2009 2:13 PM

Countering WEC would be a short term success. But in the end it would cause Zuffa to fold the WEC to keep it from being used against themselves. Then Zuffa rather than just making it difficult for Striforce with a little tough competition would wage all out war on Strikeforce and no WEC to stand in their way. This means UFC buying more fighters than they need. Specifically strikeforce fighters. Using their “connections” to put up road blocks at every turn. Anyone remember Pride when they come to Vegas and the commission turned down a fight because they deemed it unfair? I think it was Butterbean vs Mark Hunt. There has been MUCh worse match ups and this was the first time i have ever heard of a match being blocked by the commission in MMA.

The UFC is a cash cow to most of the state commissions. I believe the UFC has some influences inside those commissions. Does Strikeforce really want the UFC war machine to take aim at them?

Strikeforce should just do their thing. Run the events on whatever day they choose and let the UFC counter them. Strikefiorce is piggybacking of the UFC success so why shouldnt the UFC counter? If Strikeforce chucks along and still becomes a success then they can claim they didnt it on their own and carved their own fanbase with out the use of the UFC mainstream fans. If Strikeforce keeps trying to play the 1+ up game with the UFC. It will be a game they cant win and cant afford to play very long.

RJ on
September 11th, 2009 5:26 PM

If you can’t see an event happening on Oct. 10th what’s the point of the article? Other than to bash Strikeforce of course. That part of your agenda is obvious.

Just seems like you wasted your time you should’ve saved this in case an announcement is made on Monday or Tuesday of next week.

Also hasn’t Strikeforce been in the Combat Sports business since 1985 and MMA since 2006?
They’ve been walking dead for awhile then haven’t they?

Brain Smasher on
September 11th, 2009 9:12 PM

Well being in combat sports for a long time didnt help Elite Xc so i dont see how that helps Strikeforces chances. Strikeforce has been able to run a sustainable promotion in the past because they ran events like KOTC. They ran small shows that catered to the local level. While staying within their means building a fan base at teh grass roots level. Now SF has abandoned that successful strategy just because the Fedor was afraid to fight in the UFC and everyone else has closed up doors. Now SF is running beyond their means and trying to be a top dog when everyone who has tried has failed. So the SF of today isnt the same as the SF of 2006. They completely changed their business model from a conservative successful one to a all or nothing approach. Walking Dead is a pretty accurate term. They are signed up to pay Fedor boat loads then whatever success they do have is split between 3 promotions. Their only chance of coming out of this and not going under within 3 years is for them to reach at least half the success of the UFC. Since WFA, IFL, PRIDE, Elite XC, BoDog, and K1 have all failed horribly in the UFC. I would say their chances are slim and none.

Joseph on
September 12th, 2009 1:52 AM

You are a funny guy Brain, since your points made no sense. The UFC is not worried about putting Strikeforce out of business, as many of the fanboys would like to think. They are threatened by Showtime and their involvement in MMA. Strikeforce could go down next year and they would be replaced by MFC, XFC, Shine Fights, PFC, etc. Strikeforce never goes beyond what they can do and continue to put on successful shows that keep making money for them.

I LOVE how everyone points out Fedor is going to kill them, yet he only has a 3 fight contract, which is a co-promoted event anyways. So if they lose money when Fedor fights, it will be only 3 times out of 18 shows they put on, plus the losses would be split among 2 or 3 parties. I love how you said PRIDE and K1 failed horribly. Really? Last I checked, K-1 was still around and PRIDE only went down due to the Yakuza scandal. The UFC had nothing to do with them. BoDog, EliteXC and the WFA spent way too much money, which is why they folded. Strikeforce is not a promotion that just throws money around. They still have a deep grass roots core with their ShoMMA Challenger events.

Brain Smasher on
September 12th, 2009 1:32 PM

I was speaking of those promotions USA ventures. If you dont think they failed. Then you dont pay enough attention to the sport. I can quote figures to back up K-1’s USA failure in LA, California a couple years ago. Prides shows in Vegas were failures too. They got a good gate but it still flopped on the PPV buys. So bring up the reason Pride collapsed is pointless as is K1 still being around. That isnt what the topic is about. Its SF future in the US market where everyone other than the UFC has failed. Both K1 and Pride at their peak never had a big following in the US. They were driving by the japanese. So like i said. Both of them and the other promotions all tried to capture the US market and failed.

You make to many assumptions about Fedor. Yes he signed a 3 fight deal. But doesnt the typical SF contract for champions keep renewing after the initial 3 fights as documented on this sight by MMA PAyout? He could have signed a contract that made exceptions but we dont know that.

As far as them losing money. This is a given. It is well know that Showtime and other TV networks are not handing out great deals. The fight promtoions have giving up everything just to get on TV. So dont expect SF to get much from Showtime. Their gates are lucky to even approach 1 million. A future on PPV is the biggest long shot of all. Affliction could only muster close to 100K buys. Pride while in Japan on PPV here got about 20K and 40-60K for their US efforts. Everyone else did much less than that (KOTC, GFC, Bodog, WFA, etc)

But if SF can use Fedor for 3 fights and move on. Then they will be better off. They will never be big enough to sustain fighters who make that much.

I personally want all these other shows to die in the u.s. market, why? because i don’t want MMA to turn into boxing, which is were its headed. I want to see Fedor fight the best of the best in there primes. I want to see Mousassi fight in the incredibly talented light heavy weight division of the the UFC. If anyone really thinks SF is going to help the sport then fine, call everyone who’s mouth isn’t around Fedor’s cock a UFC nut hugger. Am I the only one who’s sick of watching Fedor run through no name heavy weights? His best wins are against guys who like Sorbral and big Nog. Sorbral is a half ass light heavy weight at best and Nog is a human punching bag.

Brain Smasher on
September 13th, 2009 12:57 AM

RJ is one of those fan boys who wants to speculate “his” fighter is the best rather than know for sure. Probably one of those people who believe Pride fighters couldnt lose to UFC fighters JUST because they ran through the same recycled fighters for 8 years.

you can call me a UFC nutrider if it makes you feel better. The fact is i like the sport itself not the fighters in it that come and go. With 1 primary promotion the top guys have to face the top guys in a timely manner with 1 set of rules. Fedor refuses to jump into the UFC because they UFC has always been evolving. They are always looking for the best. If that means a well know Couture gets put to pasture for a unknown Vasquez. Then so be it. The better fighters rise to the top. Fedor wants the old Pride way of using the same names for a decade in rotation. Nog, Cop, Coleman, Randleman then repeat.

Just like in boxing. When you give fighters other options they look to find ways to protect their record by hand picking fights, fighting once a year, etc. Thats what Fedor si doing. Running in safe mode. Choose the path of least resistance.

RJ on
September 13th, 2009 3:42 PM

“Jarekov” Brain Smasher isn’t nut huggin. Hes stating facts

I personally want all these other shows to die in the u.s. market, why? because i don’t want MMA to turn into boxing, which is were its headed. I want to see Fedor fight the best of the best in there primes. I want to see Mousassi fight in the incredibly talented light heavy weight division of the the UFC. If anyone really thinks SF is going to help the sport then fine, call everyone who’s mouth isn’t around Fedor’s cock a UFC nut hugger. Am I the only one who’s sick of watching Fedor run through no name heavy weights? His best wins are against guys who like Sorbral and big Nog. Sorbral is a half ass light heavy weight at best and Nog is a human punching bag.

You sir are a complete moron. He wasn’t stating fact. His post was filled with factual errors. Most notably saying EliteXC was in combat sports for a long time. Which is not only false it’s stupid to post something that’s so completely wrong. And Brain Smasher IS a UFC Nut hugger and so are you.

Brain Smasher on
September 13th, 2009 5:48 PM

“You sir are a complete moron. He wasn’t stating fact. His post was filled with factual errors. Most notably saying EliteXC was in combat sports for a long time. Which is not only false it’s stupid to post something that’s so completely wrong. And Brain Smasher IS a UFC Nut hugger and so are you.”

It is clear you dont know what you are talking about. This is the factual error you are talking about? Do you know who created elite XC? Do you know who was the President of Elite XC? Its Gary Shaw who has been a big name boxing promoter for decades. So yes Elite XC had experience in combat sports. Do you need any other help on the subject of MMA? Genius?

Whether you agree or disagree, please support yourself and your position in a civil, professional manner. We’d hate to resort to deleting reader posts just because it got out of hand.

Thanks!

Kelsey

Alan on
September 13th, 2009 9:56 PM

I agree with David. The reports point to a fight in October–a decision of very questionable strategic thinking. I think this article shows just how many more variables SF has to contend with now that they have Fedor. It makes me wonder what SF’s strategy was in signing him in the first place. Why pay a fighter 10x your next highest paid fighter if you’re afraid he can’t draw a crowd and have to sabotage your own fight cards because of him?

In trying to argue the point a bit too fervently I think the last line of the article ultimately detracts from the whole point and spawned controversy. But one could always nitpick words.

[…] it will be. One date that seemed firm but now seems pretty unlikely is October 10th, for reasons MMA Payout explains: Beyond this, unless an announcement is made today, I can’t see Fedor/Rogers happening […]

RJ on
September 14th, 2009 7:47 PM

Brain Smasher apparently you’ve missed the point of my comment all together. Gary Shaw promoted boxing events for years yeah no shit, and still does and Jeremy Lappen was involved in MMA for years before EliteXC also, but that wasn’t my point of disagreeing with what you said.

My point was EliteXC wasn’t a name or company involved in combat sports or mma for a long time at all. You said they were around a long time they weren’t. Where as Strikeforce has been a company since 1985.

Yeah no kidding they were going to hire some people who were experienced in promoting combat sports, but the company themselves was around for about a year and a half.
I didn’t think that anyone would take it that I meant EliteXC was full of employees and were run by people with no experience whatsoever, but I guess some people need every little thing spelled out for them.

Dan on
September 15th, 2009 7:23 PM

UFC vs Strike Force
It is a proven fact that competition breeds a better product . UFC already is starting to smell funny with poor match ups and canned responses from fighters. There is always someone who can kick someone else’s ass. Styles make fights and the best is not solely in the UFC.
There a many great fighters that the American audience has not seen from Europe and Asia as well as South America. Competion will force Dana to pay more and treat his fighters with the respect they deserve. Paying Mike Brown 30K for defending his title is a joke and is doing a diservice to the sport and the fighter.
There are several talented fighters that need the exposure that competion brings out,among them is another Fedor,Wand,Brown,BJ etc. etc.
Pride was that kind of promotion and Dream offers many great fighers who are paid better to fight.
Dana is treating this sport as a meat market and hurting the legacy of MMA.
The fact he is lashing out about Strike Force shows he is aware that he is limiting the value of his fight cards. He confidence with the uneducated fight fan was so evident when 77% thought that Randy C. would beat Nog. Anyone who new anything new that Randy was going to lose and he was dominated and 77% of the poor uninformed typical UFC fan was wrong in picking Randy. Why ? because they did not know enough about Nog and the history of what he has done. There is a lot more out there than UFC, go find it on HD Net,the internet….
Strike Force is a good thing for all the fans……….UFC has been watering down their fight cards for some time now and now you know the reason why.

Brain Smasher on
September 15th, 2009 7:34 PM

I missed what you were getting at because its so stupid. A company name does not equal success. Its the people behind the name that make the decisions. So saying SF will somehow do what everyone else has failed to do because their name existed in another field, not MMA, and has been around a long time. Well its laughable.

Thats like bring back the old IFC name and claiming it as a cant miss success because it has existed in the past in MMA/NHB at that. Look at the WFA. They were around a long time. Went away and then comeback only to fail again. In the end SF will depend on the decisions Coke and his crew make just like XC was decided by the powers to be in that promotions. Which was more than Lappen and Shaw. There were many more people with power than those 2. Shaw was dismissed and his son was involved too.

But like i said Coker using a name thats been around dont give him any advantages. Its meaningless. The only thing that matters is the credentials of the employees under that umbrella. And whether SF is more qualified than Elite XC. That is yet to be determined.

Brain Smasher on
September 15th, 2009 7:50 PM

Dan

Are you on Drugs? The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem.

So the WEC should go out of business like 90% of the promotions just to pay Mike Brown more money? If Mike Brown was worth more money maybe he would draw in some fans and Zuffa wouldnt be trying to fold the WEC. You are only worth what you bring to the table. Noone is paying to see Mike Brown.

And LOL at the japanese cant do no wrong way of thinking. They dont pay better than the UFC. Some japanese fighters who are of value in japan get more because the UFC cant use them. But the american fighters dont get much. Thats why all the fighters come to the UFC from Pride.

The UFC making bad match ups? This last year has sceen the best match ups in MMA history. Look at Little Nog vs Luis Cane for example. Yes styles make fights which is why Nog will lose and he isnt that great anyway. Yes everyone can be beat. But you criticize the UFC for not having fighters from this country or that. But what did Pride or Dream do for World MMA? Nothing. Pride promised to come to the US for 5 years before they did. When they did it was only when the bottom fell out in japan. But since they didnt build a foundation in the states like the UFC is now doing in the UK and Canada. It was doomed to fail. If done right the USA couldnt have carried Pride through the tough times. But they didnt care about the American fans and built their company to cater to the japanese.

If you thought Nog vs Couture was so one sided then you are clueless about the sport and just nutrider anyone from Pride. Nogs last fight looked like crap. Nog vs Couture was a close fight that technically Randy was the better fighter but his chin is shot due to his age. But he landed punches at will on Nog. LOL at “dominated”. Take the blinders off buddy.

RJ on
September 15th, 2009 8:10 PM

@ Brain Smasher
No you missed what I was getting at because you’re not particularly bright if you don’t think a brand name speaks to the masses then you truly are a lost cause.
In the future do yourself a favor and when you’re getting killed in an argument stop continuing to reply trying to save face because you just keep burying yourself deeper in your own idiocy.

RJ on
September 15th, 2009 8:12 PM

@ Brain Smasher
No you missed what I was getting at because you’re not particularly bright if you don’t think a brand name speaks to the masses then you truly are a lost cause.
In the future do yourself a favor and when you’re getting killed in an argument stop continuing to reply trying to save face because you just keep burying yourself deeper in your own idiocy

Brain Smasher on
September 15th, 2009 8:23 PM

SF is an unknown Brand tool. Yes, if you have a Brand that is well known for its quality then it will help. But i have followed this sport since the beginning and know as much as anyone about the sport. Yet i ddint know anything about Strikeforce UNTIL they got into MMA. So tell me how noone in MMA knowing who they are is going to help them in MMA? Boxing didnt help XC be a better MMA promotion. Kickboxing didnt help K1 be a better MMA promotion.Their Brand didnt do anything in MMA. But you again with just speculation are going to say SF is different with nothing to back it up.

Dan on
September 15th, 2009 8:59 PM

Brain Smasher:
Nog was damaged goods when he fought prior to Randy. Brain Smasher should change your name to Brain Dead. (Everyone knew this except you and the other 77% of UFC fanatics.)
You have been drinking the water to long from the UFC bottle. Look around and notice , unless you just want to watch the knuckle draggers keep it up.
This is a sport that is International and competion is the key hopefully Stike Force and their new alliances will educate you to what is happening in the rest of the world. The UFC is not the NFL this is not a team sport it is one on one combat.

As ar as Mike Brown getting the shaft so did ,Torres,Faber,and many others.You are on the mma pay out site read the facts.
8-10 weeks of traing for the championship for 30K does not cover his expenses and fees.This is not a rookie this is someone at the top of their game and getting there brains beat out for peanuts. For your limited info the WEC card with Brown broke all records…and I watched it for free
Look for the UFC to fold WEC in the ranks . They have to or start losing talent to overseas markets where the get respect and promoted as the deserve.

I repeat competition is the key for all to see more talent and you might actually learn something. The UFC is in danger of inbreeding itself if it doesnot reach out. FEDOR is KING don’t forget it………..and he said no to Dana and and his WWE juced up champ……who has no class or respect for the sport…….

Brain Smasher on
September 15th, 2009 10:40 PM

Coute vs Nog was an even fight on the Sports Books. If you were so sure and not just a dumbass. Why didnt you unload of Nog? Your just a fan boy tool. Nothing more.

Mike Brown event broke records? Then you say you watched it for free. LOL. Well there there you go. The WEC dont make much money because people do not pay to see Mike Brown or the others. Since noone is paying to see them the WEC dont have money to pay them. Get a life and quit worrying about what other men’s paychecks are.

The UFC has done more for international MMA than any other promotions ever. So quit being a jackass. MMAPayout has done reports of the popularity of the UFC in dozens of countrys. Mexico, UK, Canada, Brazil, Philippines, etc. The groth of the sport in these countries is SOLELY due to the UFC.