1) Death has not been permanent for a long time. Frieza came back just recently. The ballsy decision to put a twist on the idea of death in a dramatic way kept the show fresh for me.

2) No matter what, they would not have been able to kill Zamasu anyways. The Spirit Bomb Sword permanently destroyed Goku Black and Future Zamasu's bodies, but Future Zamasu's spirit continued to live on, since he was immortal. I personally feel like this was the right move -- death of the physical body should not stop a being who is immortal.

3) Zamasu taking over the Earth and attempting to take over everything reminded me of Thanos when he beat Eternity and took over the universe. He was too powerful for anyone to defeat, in my personal opinion, I don't think Whis or the High Priest could have beaten him. The villain won. That is a fresh take on things that I love.

4) Calling the Omni-King was neat and makes sense that it was the only way to finally defeat Zamasu. Without a way to seal Zamasu away, it made sense to need the Omni-King. I like that the Spirit Bomb wasn't the final way to defeat him. Defeating the villain by brute force has been done so many times, and Zamasu wasn't like every other villain. Killing him in the same way wouldn't make sense.

5) I like that the Future Omni-king didn't just make Zamasu poof out of existence. He blew up the entire multiverse (or, Universe 7, but I get the feeling it was the multiverse). That is some badass shit right there! The death of those in the multiverse was Goku's fault. They are permanently dead. He is not going to use the button ever again (hopefully), for fear of ruining another world! That is dark, but the trump card truly wasn't worth it, despite Zamasu ceasing to exist.

6) There are two Omni-Kings! I was starting to wonder if they would address whether the Omni-King rules over all timelines or not, and they answered it in this episode! Goku also brings the Omni-King a playmate in himself -- Future Omni-King! I love it! I assumed they would bring Goten, or something silly like that. Hell, I even assumed they forgot that they established that because we all know how Toei and Toriyama can be. In a way, by Goku having Present Omni-King play with Future Omni-King he all but assures the two of them will be preoccupied with playing. Therefore, they won't have the volatile tendency to blow up universes. This secures the wild card that was the Omni-King. Good move. Even the High Priest seemed impressed, who is Whis and Vados' father. Cool.

7) Whis explaining that Beerus made a new timeline by murdering Zamasu was interesting. It put Beerus in his place, and I like seeing him humbled. It somewhat explains now that there are six timelines. If Gods traveling through time is taboo, a God of Destruction killing another God sounds like a taboo to me. It makes sense why it would create a new timeline -- that's a violation of a law of nature. Whis goes on to say that Future Trunks and Future Mai can hopefully go to a new timeline to right before Zamasu gets control. Whis smartly will seal him away in something other than the urn Goku attempted to use. This states that the Zamasu in the seventh timeline will not be a problem. Zamasu in the main timeline is dead. Zamasu in Trunks' timeline is dead. Zamasu/Goku Black from the Beerus-created timeline is dead. The Zamasu from this timeline Whis will seal away. He won't be a problem anymore, and the timeline they are going to is of their old friends and counterparts of themselves. Trunks will have himself to train with.

8 ) Trunks saying goodbye was bittersweet, but nice. Vegeta punching him, only to see that Trunks blocked it, shows his own growth. The two of them smiling was nice because it was Vegeta saying that he approves of Trunks' strength. Him seeing Gohan before he left, and bringing back all of the emotions from having his timeline destroyed is great. Trunks didn't get over it, and he WAS horribly upset by his own failing to save the world. Gohan giving his approval to Trunks was reminiscent of Future Gohan approving of him. It gave Trunks the peace of mind that everything was going to be okay. We also got to see Gohan looking like his Buu Saga self. Also, in the next episode preview, Goku spends time with the gang, and tries to wish King Kai back to life! How awesome is that?

Overall, I bet a lot of people are upset by Zamasu not dying from what it looked like in the last episode, Future Omni-King destroying the timeline (or Universe 7, I don't know which), and Future Trunks and Future Mai just going off into a new timeline. Honestly, Toei handled the episode very well. Future Trunks got the kill, plain and simple. He defeated the Supreme God Zamasu with the power of earth and hope. That is very in-character for him. They destroyed Zamasu's body, BUT you cannot just eliminate an immortal god by taking out his body.

His spirit trying to take over everything and having control was the logical next step in storytelling. We have truly never dealt with a character that is immortal. Therefore, Goku using the Omni-King button was the only way out to kill his spirit. Yes, it is upsetting that Goku and Vegeta using SSB Vegito Final Kamehameha and Super Trunks using the Spirit Bomb Sword was enough to kill the body of the immortal god, but they showed that even a combined Final Galick Kamehameha couldn't defeat his spirit. Everyone would have been disappointed if Future Omni-King just poofed Zamasu's spirit away, and everything was fine. The Omni-King is a volatile child-like character as we have seen in many foreshadowing moments -- blowing up Universes 13-18, wanting to have a playmate, threatening to murder his bodyguards, instilling fear into gods of destruction like Beerus and Champa. He was bound to do something insane like this. It's an additional perk that Goku neutralized the instability of Present Omni-King and Future Omni-King by distracting them with each other's company. Creating a new timeline where Zamasu won't be free, the other three Zamasus are dead, and all of the inhabitants of Earth are alive with another Mai and Trunks is great. That is all anyone can ask for. Plus, Gohan and Vegeta gave Trunks their approval and support of his efforts. All truly is well, and no one acted outside of their character.

And whatever my feelings on Super as a whole, or its purpose in the greater narrative, it's rare that Dragon Ball registers emotionally like that, and always appreciated when it does. Really didn't expect Super of all things to go there.

Last edited by Cipher on Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

Well, indeed I really like that ending, it caught me off guard in a very good way. The opposite ending had to resurrect everyone and that was complicated... the sour feeling that last after this arc finally put some "life" in the franchise universe. There are things that could change forever and not even Goku or spheres could redo everything.
It was a... mature storytelling.

I learned english listening to songs. So I don't know anything about. The day you had to learn play piano by just listening .mp3, you'll understand.

Almost too mature for DB, ending, as it does, on the value of mustering the courage to enact what little good one can even in the face of irrevocable failure & permanent calamity. Hats off to Toriyama though, who's managed to create something impactful despite fix-alls galore in this otherwise stagnant era of DB history.

EDIT: Ordinarily we'd have expected, after episode #52, to see Trunks' "hope" succeed, but the point here seems to be that Trunks' "hope" is precisely one which not only strives earnestly after success but survives the worst failure -- survives, indeed, irreversible ruin -- seeking to carve out, perforce, a space where he might perhaps finally be happy, even if the rules of time & space are thoroughly violated in so doing, even if a dim hope.

Last edited by Faustus on Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ep 67 actually redeemed the atrocity that was Episode 66. For the first time ever in Dragon Ball, a major villain has been killed by somebody other than Goku or any saiyan. The villain actually managed to obtain his goal and thoroughly beat and fuck up the entire timeline. The little kids, Trunk's mom all have died for good and can't be brought back.

The moment you realize that all characters that have died in this arc will stay dead forever with the consequence. This arc has no happy ending. Very dark indeed. And quite unexpected after last episodes friendship power nonsense

Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

Faustus wrote:Almost too mature for DB, ending as it does on the value of mustering the courage to enact what little good one can even in the face of irrevocable failure & permanent calamity. Hats off to Toriyama though, who's managed to create something impactful despite fix-alls galore in this otherwise stagnant era of DB history.

Great post. Agreed with everything here, and this particular manner of expressing it.

Faisal Shourov wrote:Ep 67 actually redeemed the atrocity that was Episode 66 ... And quite unexpected after last episodes friendship power nonsense.

I do find myself viewing the events of episode 66 more favorably now that they've been revealed to be something of a series of cruel fake-outs, tonally.

Like people are saying here, it's kinda too mature for Dragon Ball, Trunks was so courageous and stoic on Z, but in Super everything has finally taken it's toll on him, he can stay calm for a while and even smile a bit, but he and Mai have gone through so fucking much they can break down at any second, they can only remain sane because they are together. And for the love of God, in this freaking arc, pretty much EVERYONE DIED in one timeline or another, but it's a piercing blow to the heart that Trunk's timeline was completely erased with no way to bring them back, Haru, Maki, DAMMIT YAYIROBE. All dead, after all they did, because you can't deny in the end they all freaking fought against Zamasu along with Trunks... alas it was for nothing, but that's the beauty of it, that even against all odds, Trunks and Mai still keep hope.

Shit after posting I'm gonna change my score for this arc, it was a 9/10, the ending made it 10/10. Dragon Ball Super, the anime were everyone is protected by plot armor, but everyone still dies.

Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

Coupled with how #66 ended it's what made it even worse in terms of a dark ending. There is only so much love and hope of humanity can do in the end.

I'm truly amazed at how many people say this arc was a waste since everyone died but isn't that the opposite of waste? Would be a waste be if Zamasu died and everyone got resurrected in the future and lived happily ever after. The consequences are going to stick this time. A lot of people said Freeza arc/movie was a waste for this very reason but now saying the same thing for the opposite? Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Trunks put on a brave face and then broke down when he saw Gohan imagine what'll happen if he saw the kids in the other timeline!

I said that this arc was one of the best and was hoping it's conclusion will hold. Honestly given the info we had on #67 and how cuddly the NEP was this was the best outcome they could have mustered from that.

Loved this arc the moment Black sadistically told Goku how he murdered his family with his body, I actually mentioned that I wanted DB to pull that off even before Super got announced, tho its not exactly how I imagined it since I didnt expect it to be this brutal, I mean he took Goku's body and killed his family with it, terrorized the whole universe with that body and in a way kinda won at the end of the arc..... I never expected Dragon Ball to go this route, all in all I loved this arc! sad to see it go but great things must come to an end eventually. Gonna miss Black.

Black_Liger wrote:Like people are saying here, it's kinda too mature for Dragon Ball, Trunks was so courageous and stoic on Z, but in Super everything has finally taken it's toll on him, he can stay calm for a while and even smile a bit, but he and Mai have gone through so fucking much they can break down at any second, they can only remain sane because they are together. And for the love of God, in this freaking arc, pretty much EVERYONE DIED in one timeline or another, but it's a piercing blow to the heart that Trunk's timeline was completely erased with no way to bring them back, Haru, Maki, DAMMIT YAYIROBE. All dead, after all they did, because you can't deny in the end they all freaking fought against Zamasu along with Trunks... alas it was for nothing, but that's the beauty of it, that even against all odds, Trunks and Mai still keep hope.

Shit after posting I'm gonna change my score for this arc, it was a 9/10, the ending made it 10/10. Dragon Ball Super, the anime were everyone is protected by plot armor, but everyone still dies.

I honestly don't like how people thing mature automatically means dark. Something can be mature and thoughtful without being dark or gloomy. Not all true art is angst.

With that said, I do enjoy the ending for the shocked factor, for showing how truly dangerous and unfair it is to fight an immortal, for giving up one of the most hopeful and inspiring ending last episode, only to brutally crushed it in the next, and showing that even in the world of Dragon Ball, some times, no amount of willpower and hope can carry you to victory. I am not saying that every arc needs to be like this one, but it's nice contrast to have long consequences in a show that became known for its death is cheap nature.

Kanassa wrote:

precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.

Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

This episode was one of the best of the franchise, no doubt at all. It's a very mature, and dark, ending to a beautiful arc.
I have always been in love with Future Trunks and his backstory, it's a masterpiece in my eyes.
I really like how he still has hope, even though after what he's been through. The guy hasn't had many moments of relax in his life, he truly lived a life of sufference.
I love how his arc came to a conclosure with him losing. It was the most unexpected thing.

We also got Gowasu's amazing reaction in the end. He's really sad for how things turned out, that moment was really powerful.