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I am very new here and to piano as well. So I would appreciate if the veterans here can advise me.

I am thinking of buying a Samick SU121, serial number 612317, direct from the owner. She said that it is 5 years old and she is the first owner. As her asking price fit my budget and purpose (first piano for my 6 years old kid, targeting grade 1 next year, currently at Cristofori).

But it only showed serial number up to year 1988. So it was not very helpful.

Question 2:Can someone recommend a piano technician that can help me assess the condition of the piano? FYI, I have only spoken to the owner and have not seen the piano before.

Question 3:I have visited the Piano Companion at IMM and intend to visit Asia Piano at Paya Lebar. They educated me that it is important to buy a good piano with "accurate sound" as my child is at a critical learning stage. Is it worthwhile for me to consider spending $4000+- on a Kawai 121-125 cm +-19 years old when I don't even know if she is really interested?

I've been reading this thread with great interest in the past 3 days and I am not even half done reading it! Did you know this is the LONGEST thread here at PW? Most pages, most replies and most reads. Made by people from a red tiny dot on the world map! Now I'm gonna make it a bit longer.

I'm currently trying to decide between a U1 silent and K3 silent. I found it's really hard to find a good pre-owned silent piano here in Singapore, so I'll most probably get a new unit.

What I don't quite understand is the prices here. U1SG is selling at the normal price of 11.5k now. It was 9.7k when on Christmas promotion. I'm quite certain it will be 9.7k again in a few months time.

The K3 silent is on CNY promotion and is selling at 10.6k after a 20% discount. Translation: the lowest possible public price by the dealer. An even lower price is still assessible I believe, but not to everyone. You gotta win the dealer-buyer wrestling I'm guessing.

I always thought the K3 should sell slightly below the U1. Or I may be terribly wrong. I have zero piano shopping experience in real life in fact. Let's say I like the two models equally, not in the same way but as much. What would your answers be to my following 2 questions:

(1) What should be the "right" prices to own them?(2) Would you say the Kawai is just making less ecomonic sense than the Yamaha here?

Thank you all in advance for any inputs! You've got to help me justify the way I use my hard earned 10 grands!

The U1 and K3 are fairly comparable. It's really up to your taste really. The K3 is cheaper than the U1, but pricing on their silent models are a bit different. Usually the K3 has a slightly more mellow tone, but I notice Yamaha has been voicing its pianos down recently.

That said I believe the price of a K5-silent may not be that different from a K3-silent, so perhaps you should consider it. It feels more responsive and the keys less 'slippery'. It also sounds better. Showroom sets tend to be slightly cheaper and there is a bit of room to bargain for Kawais, but not for Yamahas.

In terms of comparison, I found the U1-SG has a better silent mechanism. That said, it's still not ideal (the repetition isn't that fast for repeated notes and fast trills, which is fine for some pieces but not others). However, the K3-silent unit has much more features, including a metronome feature which to me is quite important.

One alternative is to buy a regular piano (which can be used) and a slab type keyboard for practice (like the P155), the latter which you can fold up when not in use. I tried that for a while. The slab type keyboards tend to repeat faster, but has a less 'meaty' touch. If you have space for a grand that might be a better option actually.

Thanks for the heads up fjs. I'll go and check K5 silent out. I just thought anything above U1SG or K3ATX will be an overkill for my need for a long time, if not forever. But if prices of the Kawai display units are further negotiable, I'm definitely open.

Do you think in silent mode, the U1SG plays better than the K3?

Re the motronome and other "digital" features, I was thinking to hook up a computer via the MIDI interface. Any thoughts on that?

My view is that the U1-SG plays better in silent mode than the K3. The K5 is tougher to say - the keys on the K5 are nicer than the U-series (U1, U3), but the U series once in silent mode are a bit more responsive. That said, I can't tell if it's a software or hardware issue.

I understand that people who use software pianos can make their keyboards more responsive; perhaps that is true for a silent piano as well.

Separately if you have space for a computer by the side, wouldn't you have space for a used grand piano plus keyboard? :-D

Well FJ, in that regard, I guess my problem is more of the capacity to command a grand, rather than the space to accommodate it.

For the same reason (and that I wanna mess around with MIDI as well), I probably will use the piano more as a silent than as an acoustic. I could see myself spending more time on the keyboard with my ears muffled than on the grand, with my neighbours' ears muffled. But grand is definitely a great thinking! I just wish I find myself in the market again looking for a grand, that would mean I've outdone myself in piano.

Thank you for sharing your experience on the keyboard touch when in silent mode. This info definitely puts its weight on my decision. I just learned that people in other parts of the world are retro-fitting silent systems (such as QRS PNOScan) onto their existing pianos. However, I could find very very little info locally on that. If that can be possibly done, then very likely I'll find many pre-owned pianos are very attractive.

OT but this seems a good place to make this plea for help. I have a student who has left New Zealand to study (not music) at university in Singapore. She is 21 yrs old and has a diploma in modern piano. She sent me an email yesterday with general news about how she is settling in, and she also said this

“I went to practice music the other day - they have this rule that you can only use the music room once a week??! it is ridiculous - the whole process. And when I got in there… it was a keyboard… not a piano!”

I would like to make it clear that my student is very enthusiastic about Singapore. She is loving the experience, her course, and I think everything about it except for the problem about a piano.

Is there anyone in Singapore who could help her to access a piano or can anyone there offer any advice?

a. Buy a keyboard (e.g. Yamaha P-155) which is cheaper in S'pore than NZ

b. Book one of the many practice rooms in the piano schools here in Singapore (e.g. Cristofori, Kawai, Yamaha) - rental starts from S$4ish per half hour for uprights on weekdays (more on weekends). Practice rooms with grand pianos are ridiculously expensive though. The National Library at the esplanade also has practice rooms.

c. Wait for (or message) one of the forumers here with nice grand pianos and beg them for practice time.

Hi, i saw this Kohler & Campbell KMV-48SD which I quite like. It appeals to me aesthetically and i like the tone and feel of it. The sound is on the mellow side, not too bright. The only reservation is that this is a samick and is priced at SGD7,500. Is this overpriced? And i am concerned about its resale value. My other alternative is a Yamaha YM5 selling at SGD7,850. But I don't find anything I specially like about this. Just that yamaha is a reputable and reliable brand I would assume.

Hi Artemov,there is a new piano dealer at bukit timah beauty world shopping complex, 2nd floor.selling Krakauer and Sun.Tenor, both chinese pianos if i am correct.never tried the pianos but if my memeory is correct, says in advertisement that Sun.Tenor features Steingraeber action.don't know if that means the "rolling knuckle" action of Steingraeber. visited the shop twice, it was closed. you have to call the dealer through the number on display.

I strongly support the suggestion that you should visit Alvin and try the Sauter pianos. it will be a most enriching trip.

Hi,

I notice the shop that sell Krakauer had shifted to HDB estates to sell piano! The man told me that it is a very good brand where Made in China!

My hokkien berri good?! Neh... considered entry level for a hokkien "laang". Ok, will keep my posts in plain english only since this is an international forum.

Really? BL61 is a good piano?! I couldn't find any info on the net. Do you mind sharing more?

Hmmm... yes, my music room is rather empty. 2 walls of full-length mirror, 1 wall with the window and the piano is placed against the last wall (with about 8cm gap). Laminate flooring, ceiling fan, another keyboard (Yamaha DGX-630), and no other furniture. Any problem?

After one month plus of playing on it... it's either the piano settled or I had somewhat gotten used to it. Somehow, the problems that I previously felt seem less pronounced.

Yet to change for another piano, as my schedule doesn't permit me to visit the shop again so far. Anyway, I'll still go check out the other pianos from the shop... after CNY.

Thanks for checking. Do hope to hear more about BL61. Thanks for sharing.

I had spent almost 24 hours reading this entire 87 pages, wow it is very interesting & informative. My child Age 8 is now in the beginner stage of learning piano, maybe few mths down the road would require a piano for him to practise.

I now have a few options & hope can get experts to share soe advise.

(1) Someone is asking me to take over a old brand piano, brand is Royale (Korea Make). Do not know the condiiton & sound quality of the piano. Free one so cannot give too much comments.

I would try out the free piano first and see if it can be acceptable, in terms of sound etc. If yes, why not take it and use until it becomes unacceptable. Maybe your friend can throw in free moving for you?! Anyway, if I'm not wrong, I think moving the piano cost about $200.

If the free piano is not acceptable in sound etc to your or your daughter, then I would go and try out option 3. I have a Hailun bought early last year. Like you said, affordable and though not the best, it is quite value-for-money.

I recall when I was doing piano shopping for my son, I couldn't find any nice, old, but not-too-old U1 or Kawai for the same price as a new Hailun. But I did find a super old U3 which I like the sound, at similar price with Hailun. But I didn't get that in the end bec it was just super old and risky.

I'm still quite happy with my decision one year down the road.

Samick I'm not too sure now. A year back I found Hailun better sounding, but this is perhaps my own preference. Also, both brands may now have newer and improved models, so you would need to test them out yourself.

Dear all - my son is currently 12 years old and would be doing his ABRSM Gr. 7 sometime this year. As a result of his interest and passion in music, we bought a brand new Kawai k8 couple of years ago.

He is beginning to feedback to me that the action of the upright is limiting the 'pp' notes in some of the more expressive pieces. I am beginning to wonder if we should upgrade to a grand to support his music.

Couple of questions:-

1) have seen a couple of grands at yamaha and kawai. C3 (Yamaha) Rx 3 and even the SK series. He likes the tone and timbre of the Sk series - but they are a little pricey and could be high maintenance. Any feedback and advice on the SK?

Your son is very lucky to have as supportive a parent as yourself. He is also probably very talented to be doing grade 7 at 12.

Your son is starting to be old enough to know what he wants, and this is a good time to educate him on budgeting and making a major purchase. I would suggest setting him a budget and letting him decide. To help him in his decision, let him try a few more pianos though; not just the kawais and yamahas, but also the other brands mentioned in this thread (bohemia, petrof, the various brands at Cristofori, second hand pianos).

There's no real hurry anyway. The k8 is an excellent piano that frankly offers excellent control for most pianists; but as with all uprights, the sound can be a little 'in-your-face'. It's still probably better than what a lot of people taking diploma exams (including myself 13 years ago) have ;-)

I manage to get the free piano in which had been used by the kid for almost a month. Not yet get a tuner to does the tuning. The sound seem different compare when the kid having the lesson at the piano teacher lesson.

Had went to Piano-Master & tested Hailun, seem like the sound is good compare with those 20 year old Yamaha!

Originally Posted By: betbet

Hi Mugen

Just my 2 cents worth:

I would try out the free piano first and see if it can be acceptable, in terms of sound etc. If yes, why not take it and use until it becomes unacceptable. Maybe your friend can throw in free moving for you?! Anyway, if I'm not wrong, I think moving the piano cost about $200.

If the free piano is not acceptable in sound etc to your or your daughter, then I would go and try out option 3. I have a Hailun bought early last year. Like you said, affordable and though not the best, it is quite value-for-money.

I recall when I was doing piano shopping for my son, I couldn't find any nice, old, but not-too-old U1 or Kawai for the same price as a new Hailun. But I did find a super old U3 which I like the sound, at similar price with Hailun. But I didn't get that in the end bec it was just super old and risky.

I'm still quite happy with my decision one year down the road.

Samick I'm not too sure now. A year back I found Hailun better sounding, but this is perhaps my own preference. Also, both brands may now have newer and improved models, so you would need to test them out yourself.

Dear all - my son is currently 12 years old and would be doing his ABRSM Gr. 7 sometime this year. As a result of his interest and passion in music, we bought a brand new Kawai k8 couple of years ago.

He is beginning to feedback to me that the action of the upright is limiting the 'pp' notes in some of the more expressive pieces. I am beginning to wonder if we should upgrade to a grand to support his music.

Couple of questions:-

1) have seen a couple of grands at yamaha and kawai. C3 (Yamaha) Rx 3 and even the SK series. He likes the tone and timbre of the Sk series - but they are a little pricey and could be high maintenance. Any feedback and advice on the SK?

Dear all - my son is currently 12 years old and would be doing his ABRSM Gr. 7 sometime this year. As a result of his interest and passion in music, we bought a brand new Kawai k8 couple of years ago.

He is beginning to feedback to me that the action of the upright is limiting the 'pp' notes in some of the more expressive pieces. I am beginning to wonder if we should upgrade to a grand to support his music.

Couple of questions:-

1) have seen a couple of grands at yamaha and kawai. C3 (Yamaha) Rx 3 and even the SK series. He likes the tone and timbre of the Sk series - but they are a little pricey and could be high maintenance. Any feedback and advice on the SK?

2)

Thanks

Hi steppy

You may email me for the K8 that you are going for sale.email:xiaoguaiguaijnye@gmail.com

Very informative thread, and very long too! Spent the last 2 hours reading, and still only at pg 17.

Can't go through the entire thread, though I'm sure my questions would have already been answered in one form or another. Please don't flame this newbie.

Oh, and I'm not an adult beginner. I'm just in the marketlooking for a piano for my 8yo daughter. She had been usinga hand-me-down piano and frankly, it had seen better days.So it's time to upgrade to a better one.

We dropped by Century Piano this past weekend and saw a few pianos:1. Yamaha U30BL (2 of them - 461xxxx & 466xxxx) - $5900

2. Yamaha YU1 (10+ years) - $6500

3. Kawai K30 (can't remember how old) - $5000

Somehow I have a nagging feeling that the asking price is just too high.

So would like to check with the experts here, how much should these pianos be fetching? Would you buy any of these? Or I should just buy a brand new Hailun (since I heard quite some good words of this brand)?