OK, so here's an interesting topic that came to mind as I was working on my fic... and looking it up on here, I couldn't find a thread, so here we are.

How many people died in Tokyo-3 during the War Against Angels? We don't know how populated the city is, but assuming that at least all the NERV personnel live in the city, and considering the size of NERV's operation, there could be several hundred thousand people working for them to keep things running smoothly 24/7/365. Yes, that seems like a lot, but the city is pretty massive, and those hosing blocks are designed to fit a large amount of people, so there could have been several million people residing there at the time in order to support the hundreds of thousands of people living in the city. I know a government (run by the MAGI's decision making process) was mentioned in the show at some point, with a city government in place, it would lean towards the city being partially, or even fully inhabited considering it was to become the new capital of Japan within a few years in the show's timeline. That would be a big draw for a shiny new, state-of-the-art metropolis in a post-apocalyptic world.

Now, its foolish to think no one died in some sort of collateral damage from the JSSDF's missile barrages, the N² strikes, an Evangelion crushing them randomly, the Angel's actual attack, or their general tendency to explode. I mean, some Angels wold have no effect on the city, like Gaghiel, who was not encountered in the city, nor was Sandalphon. But the others, excluding the two I mentioned along with Adam, Lilith, and Kaworu, the other Angels would definitely have a body count associated with them. My guess is at least 10,000 died if everyone was super lucky, but just form the sheer damage some of the Angels brought with them, on the worse side I would have to say 100,000+

So, what are everyone else's thoughts on...?

> How many people actually lived in Tokyo-3 at the tie the show took place? > How many people died as a result of the Angels attacking (total, or broken don by Angel)

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

However as civilian casualties are never mentioned in the show and the evacuations we see are pretty substantial you could make the argument that really there were no casualties on the civilian side for most of the Angel war.Considering old Tokyo was nuked (if I'm right) there could be the genuine effort to construct a new capital city with shelters able to shrug of a nuclear warhead into the megaton range. This would neatly tie in with Nerv and the battles that would be fought in the city.

Another thing of note is the fact of the reaction regarding Toji and his sister being outside during the first fight. The impression that I get from the reactions is that really no one is supposed to be outside of a shelter once evacuations are complete.This implies an evacuation plan that really covers all the population of Neo Tokyo 3 into mass shelters able to withstand quite a beating.Although an Angel is arguably mightier than a Nuke or N2 the shelters are not their target. They wouldn't have to withstand Ramiels particle beam directly for example. The would only have to withstand a glancing strike or an Unit or Angel falling on them.So as long as they weren't stupid enough to place the shelter in the middle of the city, instead of in the hills of the valley, there really could have been no civilian casulties.

Taking HonKong as an example for a developed city which most populated district has around 57k people per sqare kilometer you can expect around two thirds of that for NT3.NT3 has quite broad roads and highways for the locking mechanisms of the retractable buildings (plus not used area) and for the Units to move so the populations density has to be lower than that. Also the whole city doesn't consist of only the retractable blocks.Doing some guessing used the measurements in the wiki and the drafts there are I would guess around 2 sq/km of actual city with the outlaying blocks included.Taking a population density of 38k people per sq/km we get only around 76k of population.This might seem a bit low however there could be some 30k of commuters coming and going every day from the surrounding cities.Also Nerv Central most likely doesn't have more than 25 to 30k in personnel.

After all a capital city doesn't have to be grandiose or be the most populated city in a country.

Last edited by Neepa on Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have actually thought about this just the other day, and my conclusion was: Apart from those that never set foot in Tokyo-3 or caused little collateral damage (like Shamshel/the fifth), hundreds or thousands per angel. The number one cause of death would probably be the buildings dropping down into Geofront, most definitely killing everyone in them.

Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)

That would make sense when there actually is someone in these buildings.Wasn't Zeruel the only Angel to drop out of the blue and do collateral damage to the city?Matarael just did walk through the city, however didn't do anything apart from breaking open that hatch above the shaft with his acid.Apart from these two there was always enough time to evacuate civilians to the shelters. Should these shelters be integrated into the retracting city blocks I call the Architect of that an absolute moron.

If I remember correctly Zeruel was the only Angel to inflict loss on the civillian side. There was this shot in the show where Shinji was inside the Geofront with people running around in it from one shelter to another. Theer were even some dead people in the background(if I remember correctly). Was around the time where Kaji speaks to him during the battle.

Neepa wrote:Should these shelters be integrated into the retracting city blocks I call the Architect of that an absolute moron.

If Ep 3 is anything to go by, the shelters appear to be a bit outside of Tokyo-3. Which, to be completely honest, isnt that much better, and raises the question why the buildings are installed the way they are in the first place.

If I remember correctly Zeruel was the only Angel to inflict loss on the civillian side. There was this shot in the show where Shinji was inside the Geofront with people running around in it from one shelter to another. Theer were even some dead people in the background(if I remember correctly). Was around the time where Kaji speaks to him during the battle.

Sachiel is bound to have caused causualties as well, seeing how Tojis sister was injured by debris and many people claim theat the city is no longer safe in Ep 3

Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)

Neepa#879194 wrote:Also Nerv Central most likely doesn't have more than 25 to 30k in personnel.

Well... are we sure that NERV doesn't have more personnel? I mean, the Pentagon has like 23,000 people during just an eight to twelve hour shift. I would think a facility that deals in everything from research and development, Evangelion combat and repair, not to mention intelligence only has 30,000 employees.

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

DarkBluePhoenix wrote:Well... are we sure that NERV doesn't have more personnel? I mean, the Pentagon has like 23,000 people during just an eight to twelve hour shift. I would think a facility that deals in everything from research and development, Evangelion combat and repair, not to mention intelligence only has 30,000 employees.

More. Way more. I know a bunch of research Facilities that have some 5k personnel. Adding to that:-a massive logistics section, see Operation yashima (granted, not all of them were NERV, but I am confident that everyone who worked on the rifles and the transformators seen in the infrastructure porn segment were NERV, JSDFF or the lab they got it from. And I dont think the Lab had that many techies, and I know for a fact that most militaries dont-equally massive maintenance and administration sector-a huge defense force, albeit not as huge as a proper army (as seen in EoE and hinted at mltiple times whenever the talk was about defense budget)

My guess is 60k in Geofront alone, and every third or fourth inhabitant of Tokyo-3 overall

Why don't you save the Princess next time instead of being such a baby? She would love it and maybe you could get a sweet kiss. ~ sadly not Mari in Q (Joseki)

Neepa: Taking HonKong as an example for a developed city which most populated district has around 57k people per sqare kilometer you can expect around two thirds of that for NT3.NT3 has quite broad roads and highways for the locking mechanisms of the retractable buildings (plus not used area) and for the Units to move so the populations density has to be lower than that. Also the whole city doesn't consist of only the retractable blocks.Doing some guessing used the measurements in the wiki and the drafts there are I would guess around 2 sq/km of actual city with the outlaying blocks included.Taking a population density of 38k people per sq/km we get only around 76k of population.This might seem a bit low however there could be some 30k of commuters coming and going every day from the surrounding cities.Also Nerv Central most likely doesn't have more than 25 to 30k in personnel.

I think that Tokio-3 pop. density should be similar to downton Tokio, and to planed cities (like Brasilia), and also the density of the city varies between bloks.

"The home should be the treasure chest of living."~ Le Corbusier

"There is a quality even meaner than outright ugliness or disorder, and this meaner quality is the dishonest mask of pretended order, achieved by ignoring or suppressing the real order that is struggling to exist and to be served." ~ Jane Jacobs

Architecture is the art of making living spaces (At least that is what I think)

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.

Unfortunately, the first of the two images, the "before" image, seems to be dead.

Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.I am all there is.Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.But I gave you life.What else could you do?To do what was right.I'm perfect, are you?

Voted in college to be Most likely to Take Over the World, how to do that however, will require at leastFour Evangelions. Thanks for the idea Misato-san!"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Said at the beginning of the nuclear age by J. Robert Oppenheimer."That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Words of Wisdom from German Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche.