As far as I know at least one party member is some sort of mage, so it's reasonable to assume that there will be a mage class available to the player as well.

You can play as a mage, rogue, or warrior; and each one has 4 specialization classes that you can unlock through the story, or at a certain level gain "specialization," points that allow you to start up one of the special trees (i.e. blood mage, shapeshifter, templar, assassin, duelist, etc...).

Reading through the third interview makes my wallet cringe; lead dev said in about 2 years time they plan on having close to 100 packages available for DLC o_O, hoping 90/100 are free.

Some new videos are available on Youtube in HD (courtesy of IGN), which show that origins truly affect the story (at least the beginning); so it's not just a marketing gimmick (Mass Effect comes to mind).

The videos show the beginning of the origin story (not the game), so if you feel that's too much of a spoiler, don't watch them.

They also have a few other, like voice talent and soundtrack. I heard the voice talent contained some major spoilers so I refrained from viewing that one, but the soundtrack one, I enjoyed; liked all the music they revealed.

They also have 2 character reveals that aren't that spoilery. One thing I hate, usually common to most of the videos, is the blood spatter on the characters' faces after a minor skirmish. They all look like psychotic beings straight out of FEAR.

Yeah the blood spatter thing is pretty retarded. Something pushed for by the marketing department no doubt to bring in the non-RPG console crowd, in the same vein as the "violence" trailer (the one with Marilyn Manson's dulcet tones).

By the way, the first official review came out recently in a Polish magazine. There's a thread over on the official site about it. Here's one summary of the article -

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurking fear

I've just finished reading the review. The overall rate is 8+/10.

Pros:
multi-threaded plot
climate
combat
great possibilities for development
length

Cons:
looks old school
some fights are difficult like hell even at lower difficulty levels

Well, some of the criticism from the "fanboys" is not unfounded (I too consider old school looks and high difficulty a plus), but it's true they're getting a little too worked up over a review for a game they haven't even played yet.

Well it was more that it was "only" given an 8. I can certainly see their point, when dross like Oblivion and Fallout 3 gets 9s and 10s. The manner of their outrage is just kind of humorous is all.

I'm all for an old school, hard-core RPG - that's exactly what I want. Assuming DA is actually in that vein, it's a given that it is going to get marked down by the mainstream media. Your average slob isn't interested in that sort of thing. They want shallow action games with whizz-bang graphics.

i hope enemies explode in giant waves of blood and it absolutely decimates alpha protocol's sales to the point where obsidian's offices explode and shower the southwestern us with blood then bioware releases a special blood edition of dragon age that comes with a pint of o- blood with a small explosive inside of it with all the lettering on the box, in the manual, and in the game formed from human bones except all the i's are dotted with tits and the t's are crossed with legs clad in fishnet stockings and it comes with a dlc where you play as a highwayman who just rapes and pillages and can use blood magic powerups to rape and pillage faster

"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite

i hope enemies explode in giant waves of blood and it absolutely decimates alpha protocol's sales to the point where obsidian's offices explode and shower the southwestern us with blood then bioware releases a special blood edition of dragon age that comes with a pint of o- blood with a small explosive inside of it with all the lettering on the box, in the manual, and in the game formed from human bones except all the i's are dotted with tits and the t's are crossed with legs clad in fishnet stockings and it comes with a dlc where you play as a highwayman who just rapes and pillages and can use blood magic powerups to rape and pillage faster

I agree with this.

Also the best part of the game is the brothel where you can say surprise me and come face to face with a man, a woman, a transsexual, or an animal (I forget if this has been brought up in this thread but it's mature)

Moderator note[10-08-2009 03:35 PM]Yeah, yeah, Mama Jae pipes up...LF is still rated PG-13, so note to everyone to watch the content you're chatting about on this forum, I don't give a horse's dump what games are rated elsewhere.

This is seriously one of the worst things to piss me off about a game. I'm not sure if EA came in and specified that they wanted DLC levels or if it was BioWare's idea or a combination of both, but day 1 DLC is just the most obvious way to try and get more money out of you. If it's available on day 1, it could and should have shipped with the game for free. I guarantee I won't be playing that first level. Sounds like as long as you buy the game new, you'll get the second one.

I'm not a big fan of the DLC concept. To me it just offers too much of an excuse to nickel and dime customers. Things like the infamous horse armour and EA charging people to unlock content already on the disc for example. I do get some of the justification from the dev's viewpoint though. It's a way to get a more consistent stream of new content to the endusers and at a lower price point, both of which in theory should be good things. It's the execution that has been questionable in the past.

As far as Dragon Age goes, one of the devs over on the official forums made a number of posts about the reasons behind having first day DLC. As you can imagine, plenty of people over there were asking questions as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sims, DA Technical Designer

The process of shipping a game is a gradual series of hardening and locking down. The world needs to be solidified so that the plot structure can be formed. The plot structure needs to be solid so that the plots can be written. The plots need to be written so that they can be scripted. The plots need to be scripted so that they can be tested. The plots need to be tested so that they can be voiced. The plots need to be voiced so that they can be staged and given cinematic polish. The cinematic polish needs to be finished so that it can be tested. Everything needs to be locked down so that performance testing and optimization and eventually disc layout and certification can be done.

Now, things don’t always work perfectly, and changes often have to be made to things which were assumed to be locked, which causes a ripple effect and lots of work for everyone. You need to stop changing things at some point so everything that depends on them can be done. DLC is a separate product, so it doesn’t have to be tested and verified as part of the final build, it doesn’t have to be accounted for in the disc layout, and it doesn’t have to be in the game when it goes through official certification. It has its own schedule and its own verification process. And let’s not forget its own budget, because ultimately games are a business and manpower is limited by money.

To make the console ports possible, the content of Dragon Age was locked down in the spring. It wasn’t possible to add new content past that point, and the VO lockdown was much earlier than that. The game was still tested and improved with bug fixes, stability and performance improvements etc, but adding whole new adventure like Wardens Keep? That would have pushed the release date back. The PC version had a very long time after content lockdown for testing and final polish, which could have been cut short to ship that version earlier, but it was decided to ship it simultaneously with the console versions for a variety of reasons. But that’s a separate issue.

Could we have taken people from the DLC team and put them on the console version to speed the porting process up? Not really. Porting content requires a lot of programmers and not very many designers. We had a surplus of writers, tech designers and cinematic designers and even artists, so we put them to use. If anything, DLC is taking away from potential future projects, not from Dragon Age: Origins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sims, DA Technical Designer

First, it's decided that a game has to ship on a certain date. Unless you're going to delay the game, that can't change. You then start working back from there.

The manufacturer needs the final build and disc layout with enough time to print and ship the game, so you need to be completely done the game by that earlier date.

Now to ship a game, you need to go through publisher certification and if you’re on consoles you also need to go through the console manufacturer’s certification. These things take time, so that gives you an earlier deadline.

You have to prepare for that certification process, so you set a date where you can't make any changes except fixing things that would cause you to fail certification.

Before that there's a date when you can't fix any bugs except ones that have been approved by a triage group, so the game can be tested in a stable form and you don't introduce problems at the last minute.

Before that there's a date where you can't add anything new so you have enough to test and to fix bugs on what's there.

And it goes on, to earlier and earlier lockdown dates.

The process of shipping DLC is independent of all of this. DLC is much smaller than a game, and it's tested and certified independently and much more quickly, so it's not bound by the above dates. You can work on DLC right up to and past ship without effecting the release date.

If it's done, you could release the DLC for free, which would essentially make it a day 1 patch, but it absolutely could not be on the disk. That's pretty close to what we've done with Shale, as an incentive to get people to create an account and learn how to use the download service. To ship all DLC for free however ignores the fact that the DLC is made to be sold. The people working on it are paid by a budget that is only approved on the basis that there will be sales in return.

As for firing the designers and hiring more programmers, the workforce isn't that flexible. Finding good talent takes time, and firing skilled employees because they don’t have enough work in the short term is folly.

There are a few other posts about it as well, in this thread and elsewhere in the forum, but what it boils down to from what I can see is that the console versions dictate what can be put on the disc to a large extent. And as the dev alluded to, things like workforce distribution and of course money play a part as well.

I'm sure you could buy a lot of old games for the same price as new DLC. That's really an irrelevant argument. The point is whether or not the concept of DLC in the first place is justifiable. I think most people would agree that additional content for a game after it launches is welcome. The question is whether or not it should be lumped together in one big expansion 12 months after launch or broken up into a series of DLC packages (although DLC isn't entirely mutually exclusive with expansion packs, at least in theory). The perceived worth versus the charged cost of an individual piece of content is another debate entirely.

Weren't they doing something that would reward people who actually bought the game and discourage piracy?

I think they are giving away the extra party member Shale DLC for free when you sign up to the new community website they are making for the game. I don't think it was ever intended as an anti-piracy measure as such, more just a carrot to help build a community.

EDIT: Ah, here we go -

"Shale was believed to be a companion who was cut from the game. However, it has since been revealed that Shale will be available to all players who download "The Stone Prisoner", a piece of Downloadable Content. "The Stone Prisoner" will be free for all players who purchase the game new, otherwise it will cost US$15."

From what I can see, looks like you get a code in the box to unlock it. Apparently you also get for free in all new versions of the game a code to unlock the Blood Dragon armour in both DA and ME2. I guess you could think of it as a possible anti-piracy measure, but sounds to me more like an anti-used game measure. I recall EA was getting a bit hot under the collar about that last year.

I think the community incentive free download I referred to above is some sort of item - a bracelet or some such. Similar to one of the pre-order bonus items.

Yeah, it's also to discourage used game sales. I am fine with that one as I can't stand piracy but paid day 1 DLC is just a slap in the face. If they had waited a while after it had been released I'd be perfectly fine with it, a great example of DLC I can support is Fallout 3, their extra levels gave that game a ton more life.

^ That's the way to go, there's way too many gimmicks going on with Dragon Age, the bonus character, the dragon armor, the dlc. Someone on here mentioned earlier I think, but this stuff will all be packaged together in a GOTY edition for cheaper later on.

Lol. Nobody is forcing you to buy DLC so what does it matter? Especially given that there's nothing in any of the announced DLC that is critical content missing from the game. You could maybe argue something about Shale given that he's an extra party member, but that was cut content that wouldn't have been in the PC release if they had stuck to the original March-ish release date that they resurrected and are giving away free. The Dragon Armour is pretty useless, but again it's free so there's nothing to complain about. Speaking of the original release date, that's the thing you really have to remember. None of this stuff would have been "day 1 DLC" for the PC version if it had come out when originally intended. It would have been 6-8 months after release. The only reason it's coming out on day 1 now is that EA made them hold back the release. Does it suck that they held it up? Absolutely. It has no bearing on DLC though.

I'm pretty sure if Obsidian did exactly the same thing for AP you'd be lapping it up.

Hey I don't have any promotional crap in my avatar. Seems to me there's a heavy vibe of Obsidian can do no wrong and Bioware are hacks on this forum. I'm no fanboy of either company. Both have done stuff I like and both have dropped the ball on a number of things.

As I said, I'm no great fan of the DLC concept. I'd much prefer they spent their efforts on a full expansion or, better yet, a new game. I like my content in big meaty chunks, not bite-sized morsels. That being said, I don't see why people are getting overwrought with the DA DLC. Half of it is free and as for the rest, well don't like it, don't buy it - simple as that.

Saw an interesting comment in an interview with Greg Zeschuk that he was giving about ME2 that pertains to the DLC debate:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Zeschuk

[...] it is interesting dealing with Microsoft and DLC, because the DLC has to be self-contained. You can still do a story, like over three chapters or something, but you would need to build it in a way that you are able to play the second one independently and not have to purchase the first one

That's an interesting point, and potentially explains one reason why DLC is generally so lame. I would assume Sony has it own rules pertaining to DLC as well. Seeing as DLC has to be standardised across all platforms (lest one group complain they are missing out) and meet all platform restrictions, it's no wonder it is mostly throw-away filler.

Not being on the 360 doesn't automatically
guarantee a better quality game.

Well, in a sense, the 360 helps with game quality because extra guaranteed revenue for those who invested money in a game means they can invest more money into development. Promise of more money out, means more money can be put into it. So, in that sense, yes 360 can be a blessing.

But at the same time, a lot of good things that would be done for PC games are taken out because the game has to fit into the 360. When it goes to the 360, M$ spreads their taint. The game becomes more of a money making scheme than it was before. PC games become consolized. Depth can be covered by glitter. Etc...

I know I'm talking in generalities and I'm not a M$ hater. (I chose their stuff, asp.net over php, even though asp.net is just part of their scheme to use their operating system). But still, they are sinister.

Though, undeniably, Microsoft is always a schemer, that was a little too far carried away. Yes, I still buy Microsoft stuff. Enough of that...

so.... I saw a video of actual gameplay. Definitely looks like a typical Bioware game. Unless this game is super buggy, I can't see how this game would lose. I'm sure we'll be seeing some game of the year awards.