Advertising

Commenter Profile

Total number of comments: 6582 (since 2010-02-26 10:49:56)

An old Jewish guy in Oz. Tired of the fallacies surrounding the I/P issue
We were given the territory for a homeland state, with more than enough room for every Jewish person on the planet, even today
Since proclaiming its frontiers in the May 15th 1948 in the Israeli Government plea for international recognition, Israel has illegally acquired by force and occupied more and more territory outside of it's proclaimed and recognized Sovereign territory. None of which has ever been legally ceded to or legally annexed to Israel by any agreement or legal instrument
The occupied have a right to violent resistance against armed citizens of the Occupying Power. However, no one has a right or excuse for committing acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. To that end:
I condemn all forms of terrorism, murder and any other harmful crime by any individual, group, organization or state and;
condemn any government, individual or organization who purposefully encourages the illegally settlement of territories held under occupation thereby purposefully endangering its own citizens by using them to create illegal facts on the ground
Today the State of Israel continues to encourage Israeli civilians to create illegal settlements, illegal facts on the ground, breaking law that was adopted by the UN and International Comity in large part because of the treatment of our Jewish fellows under the Nazis. Law adopted to protect all civilians including those of an Occupying Power from the expected violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory
Israel demands the swap of non-Israeli territory for non-Israeli territory so it can keep non-Israeli territory in a future settlement. There is no legal basis for the demand nor is there for the disarmament of a future Palestinian state. All states have equal right to self defense. Likewise, there is no legal basis for the demand to be recognized as the Jewish state. Israeli demands have no legal precedence or validity
The Palestinians have no legal, moral or ethical obligation to forgo any of their legal rights. Negotiations mean only one thing, the Palestinians forgoing legal rights so Israel can benefit
Were Israel to adhere to the law, it can easily protect itself, grow and prosper. It'd have no UN resolutions against it. No need to continuing to corrupt US politicians in order to maintain a UNSC veto vote. No need to lie to and endanger its citizens
I've received too many threats for opposing Israel's policies towards the Palestinians, broken windows, graffiti'd walls, hate mail, I'd prefer to remain anonymous, if that's OK.
Who I am is irrelevant. Reliable information is essential to informed dialogue towards resolving the I/P issue. Propaganda has no place in struggle for peace

"What the British Mandate and the Jewish National Fund could not count on was the building of the Aswan High Dam in Egypt and the microclimate changes that resulted from the decrease in Nile River flow into the sea."

Bullsh*te article based on the completely false notion that illegal Israelis cannot now be moved.

Foreigners illegally settling in and claiming territories outside their own state's borders would not be acceptable to ANY other country in the world ... except Palestine ... for no other reason than the criminals are Jewish?

@ SandraLLAP"I didn’t actually concede to him that the Palestinians were mostly at fault- the strongest statement I had made in that direction, was just an acknowledgement of the possibility that they *may* be more at fault ... "

This yours? “The reason Israel has that territory in the first place, is because it was gained from winning an unprovoked war of self-defense.”

Gentle reminder ... Palestine did not decide to colonize anyone in 1897. The wars and bloodshed following the Zionist Federation's 1897 decision to colonize Palestine are entirely the fault of the Zionist Federation

" But I’ve held off on making any definitive statements as to which side may be more at fault. "

This yours? “The reason Israel has that territory in the first place, is because it was gained from winning an unprovoked war of self-defense.”

"I feel such an assessment would require a comprehensive analysis of all the actions taken by both sides since the beginning of the history of the conflict, which is no small task ..."

It's quite simple. Israel declared its frontiers in its plea for recognition and was subsequently recognized as such, no more, no less. Nothing outside of Israel's frontiers was or has ever been agreed to be Israeli thru any legal agreement with Palestine/Paslestinians. Whether Palestine was a state or not is irrelevant. There is not a single Zionist/Israeli argument that actually passes scrutiny.

"I’ve seen it all before, as well as the equally lengthy cataloging done by the other side. Oh right- but that’s all “Zionist propaganda”…"

It IS Zionist propaganda. It is blind to the fact that the Palestinian actions are a response to the Zionist Federation decision to colonize and finance the colonization of Palestine at the expense of the people of Palestine and at the expense of repayable loans to Jewish settlers who they sent to the front lines while they wined and dined in the safety of the rich and influential and; it dismisses entirely or misrepresents International Law, the UN Charter, it's own Declaration of statehood and even its own high court decisions

"... it’s patently obvious that Israel now has the upper hand. And for this reason, I don’t feel we need to dwell so obsessively on who has been “more wrong”."

This yours? “The reason Israel has that territory in the first place, is because it was gained from winning an unprovoked war of self-defense.”

" Israel nonetheless, as of right now, has more power to move in the direction of making peace "

Israel has always had the ability and power to end the conflict by simply adhering to its obligations to International Law. It hasn't. Instead it has illegally escalated the conflict at every opportunity

"... why even discuss boycotts- what would be the point, unless Israel has the capability to make the changes that we hope a boycott could bring about"

ONLY Israel can end its illegal occupation. Only Israel can withdraw from all non-Israeli territories.

Israel can do it immediately except for the fact that it would send the Jewish state to the wall because Israel does not have and will never have the capability of affording to adhere to the law.

Under the law, Israel is required to get out of all non-Israeli territories, including Jerusalem. Remove from non-Israeli territories its institutions, Knesset, High Court, illegal settlers and every other illegal fact on the ground and f*ck off back to Israel and then; pay compensation for 70 years of war crimes, dispossession and illegal use of non-Israeli resources

Israel and the Jewish people and the Palestinians have been screwed by Zionist greed and corruption

@ SandraLLAP "have you ever thought about, say, _not_ being so hateful?? You might consider giving that a try sometime- just sayin’.)"

What's not to hate of criminals and people who spout their propaganda nonsense about "... an influx of millions of Palestinians into Israel"

"I happen to be in favor of the formation of a Palestinian nation, and allowing the settlers to remain where they are, and become citizens of the new nation"

IF Palestine wants them and why would they want the most hateful, zealous, anti-Arab Jews in their midst? No other country in the world accepts people who hate them

But let's say the Palestinians did allow these illegal Jewish settlers to stay. They should of course be required to PAY for the properties they have stolen and if they can't then Israel should be required to compensate both Palestinians and stupid settlers who've been duped by successive Israeli Governments into believing they had a right to settle in non-Israeli territories while taking their money for the privilege of being endangered by being illegally settled on the front lines of so called defense

BTW there was already a Palestinian Nation. It's Nationality Law was adopted in 1925 per the LON Mandate for Palestine, Article 7

"I was honestly a bit surprised when I read your comment, because I’ve never seen this idea anywhere else before"

Try getting out more

" it seems to me to be the best possible solution (it certainly appeals to me as being the easiest to achieve, since it involves no mass relocations i.e. “ethnic cleansing” whatsoever, which requires tremendous effort, not to mention the human suffering that goes along with it…)"

It will require enormous amounts of money that Israel doesn't have. Israel won't agree because it can't afford to agree, it would be sent bankrupt

"amigo, your doubling-down on the use of “repulsive” is doing nothing to convince me that you’re not more motivated by hatred, than a genuine desire for justice."

Save your stupid accusations. The continued dispossession by Israel of non-Jews from Israel and of non-Jews from non-Israeli territories is ugly and repulsive and those who support it are ugly and repulsive. You must be so proud to be amongst them

"As I’ve said, plenty of Palestinians have acted rather repulsively as well, and the failure to acknowledge this betrays a lack of impartiality"

What's to be impartial about the Jewish State's repulsive ILLEGAL policies against non-Jews in non-Israeli territories coveted by repulsive Zionist colonizing scum and their repulsive supporters.

Purposeful theft and dispossession deserve responses that correspond to those repulsive illegal actions even if the perpetrators are Jewish

"The problem I have with the current BDS movement isn’t its tactics, but rather that its goals are unrealistic (i.e., the “right of return” of “diaspora” Palestinians, being one of them). But I would be O.K. with a boycott that had goals which were more reasonable (such as say, halting the expansions of the Jewish settlements in the occupied territories)."

The problem you have is you're either brain washed or a propagandist for the ongoing illegal Israeli colonization of non-Israeli territories

Palestinians have RoR to Palestinian territories. Israel refuses, in contravention of International Law, to allow Palestinians return to Palestinian territories held under Israeli Occupation since Israel proclaimed its borders in order to be recognized in 1948 http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk

Israel also refuses to allow return to Israel of non-Jewish Israelis dispossessed under Plan Dalet in 1948/50.

Only a really f*cked up, evil state, run by criminals refuses to allow return of its own citizens and refuses to allow the return of Palestinian refugees to territories held under Israeli occupation for over half a century

That's the kind of state you support. You must be so proud.

Got a complaint? Take it to the Zionist Federation who instigated the colonization of Palestine pyramid scheme and the Israeli Government who perpetuate the dispossession of non-Jews from non-Israeli territory in contravention of International Law, the UN Charter, relative conventions, the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel and the most basic tenets of Judaism

B) Mr. HERZOG (Israel):
99. The state of the law has been correctly summarized by Elihu Lauterpacht, a distinguished authority on international law, as follows:“… territorial change cannot properly take place as a result of the unlawful use of force. But to omit the word `unlawful’ is to change the substantive content of the rule and to turn an important safeguard of legal principle into an aggressor’s charter. For if force can never be used to effect lawful territorial change, then, if territory has once changed hands as a result of the unlawful use of force, the illegitimacy of the position thus established is sterilized by the prohibition upon the use of force to restore the lawful sovereign. This cannot be regarded as reasonable or correct.”"restore".
It is inadmissible to ‘acquire’ territory by any coercive measure. The inhabitants might not have voted for or even been able to vote for the regime in power at the start of the conflict. The UN Charter stipulates ‘self determination’. Not the determination of a conquering power.
Israel has never had to 'restore' any territory for the simple reason that no Israeli territory has ever been conquered.

Nonsense. You're advocating that the thief keep your car and allow you to have the spare wheel. The best possible deal is for Israel to withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territories it has occupied since 1948 http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk

@ yonah fredman "What a cesspool mw comments has turned into. Who needs to go to Facebook for false news when we can come here for false history. Herzl was happy to assimilate, but the nonjew was not happy to have him around"

So he visited Palestine for only a few days even though he (and the rest of the Zionist Federation) could have in his life time gone to Palestine, gained citizenship, bought land and settled anywhere in the Jewish People's historical homeland, preferring it seems to live in circumstances where he was allegedly hated.

" ... its also no surprise that by the middle of the first paragraph the ‘jewish anti-zionist network’ proves exactly why they are looked upon in such a negative light by those who support israel, zionism and the existence of the only nation for jews in a neighborhood of some 20 other nations for muslims where jews are tolerated and christians are often only recognized as dhimmis as well"

Slight correction 'those who support israel, zionism and Israel's disregard for International Law, the UN Charter, relative conventions, UNSC resolutions and Israel's only proclaimed and recognized borders'

"... yet the United States vetoes Security Council resolutions condemning Israeli behavior that GERMANY votes for."

To be clear. Condemnations are via Chapter VI resolutions, reminding a particular party of its obligations to existing/predetermined and binding International Law, the UN Charter (binding on all members) and relative binding conventions.

It would be illegal to veto or vote against a Chapt VI resolution reaffirming, emphasizing and reminding a party of predetermined and binding Law/Charter/Conventions and condemning that party's illegal action/s. Members of the Security Council can only abstain from voting on such Chapt VI resolutions. i.e, have no say, no vote.

Chapt VII resolutions on the other hand, seek to take action/s against the party after condemnation via Chapter VI resolutions have been ignored. Chapter VII resolutions can be vetoed or voted against because the action/s against the party are not predetermined.

"Germany doesn’t simply abstain, which is what the United States used to do back when it had some spine and integrity on these matters, it votes FOR.

"There’s no legal discrimination against Israeli citizens of non-Jewish nationality. Which is to say that there is no right under Israeli law that Israeli citizens designated of Jewish “le’om” have that is denied to Israeli citizens of non-Jewish “le’om”."

Non-Jewish Israelis dispossessed in Israel's wars are not allowed RoR

Non-Jewish Palestinian Israelis cannot marry a civilian from the occupied territories and co-inhabit in Israel. Jewish Israelis can and; they can illegally live in non-Israeli territories under occupation

Non-Jewish Palestinian Israelis can be slaughtered, even by armed Israeli civilians, without trial

Allowing CITIZENS to relinquish ethnic or religious identity in the population registry would undermine Israel’s Jewishness, ruling says ...

... The ruling was a response to a demand by 21 ISRAELIS ...

"You’re still demonstrating that you don’t understand what you read."

Save it pal, you're cathole is deep enough

My emphasis on your Wikipedia citation"An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, AS AN IMMIGRANT, in a country OTHER THAN THAT OF OF THEIR CITIZENSHIP"

"According to this definition, since I’m temporarily residing in a country other than Israel, where I hold citizenship, I’m an expat. "

The definition you want to use says AS AN IMMIGRANT, in a country OTHER THAN THAT OF OF THEIR CITIZENSHIP

"There were no citizens of Israel, Jewish or non-Jewish, who were ever dispossessed 1948. The Arabs who fled during Israel’s independence war (mostly of them on their own accord) never were Israeli citizens. This is where you, as the predictable wind-up toy that you are, will link to the Israel’s Declaration of Independence and make the ludicrous assertion that the clause “appeal[ing]” to “Arab inhabitants” to “participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship” is a legal instrument that granted Israeli citizenship to the Arab inhabitants who rejected that appeal."

A) All civilians, no matter what their citizenship, had and still have, a right to flee the violence of war and return to their normal place of residencee, no matter who starts a war for the simple reason that they're civilians. UNGA res 194 is based on International Law, it was accepted by Israel as part of its entry into the UN

B) What is it about "on the basis of full and equal CITIZENSHIP" that you don't understand?

" Again, for the edification of your very muddled mind, the legal instrument that governs who and who is not an Israeli citizen is “Hok haEzrahut”"

The formal status of Palestinian citizens of Israel was adopted only in 1980 with the 4th Amendment to the Citizenship Law.

Until that time, Israel was declared in accordance with UNGA res 181 ( On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. http://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm )

UNGA res 181 November, 1947
Chapter 3

Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations

1. Citizenship. Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights. Persons over the age of eighteen years may opt, within one year from the date of recognition of independence of the State in which they reside, for citizenship of the other State, providing that no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State.

Rabbi Silver informed the UN that UNGA res 181 was binding and not dependent on being accepted by both parties. In full @ http://wp.me/pDB7k-Yx

"Arraf was born to two Palestinian parents – her mother from the West Bank town of Beit Sahour and her father from the village of Mi’ilya, in the Galilee…. Under Israeli law, she has Israeli citizenship through her father, an Arab citizen of Israel."

MI'ILYA is in territory acquired by war. I.e., not Israeli by any legal agreement.

On the matter of Israeli citizenship and repatriation, I'll accept your opinions

"Mikhael refers to citizenship — “the Jewish State of Israel does apply the designation Israeli citizen to them–while your quote refers to nationality , so there is no necessary contradiction."

1st line of the article

Supreme Court rejects ‘Israeli’ nationality status
Allowing citizens to relinquish ethnic or religious identity in the population registry would undermine Israel’s Jewishness, ruling says ...
... The ruling was a response to a demand by 21 Israelis, most of whom are officially registered as Jews, that the court decide whether they can be listed as Israeli in the registry. http://www.timesofisrael.com/supreme-court-rejects-israeli-nationality-status/

In the same manner as majority adoption of a convention or legal custom sees that convention or legal custom passing into Customary International Law, recognition, especially by the majority of the International Comity of Nations, is irrevocable, whether we like it or not AND whether Ziomorons like it or not :-)

"... under international law can be reclaimed by any coercive measure, being an illegal colonial imposition that violates the UN Charter."

"The Jews of the former British Mandate of Palestine constituted more than 1/3 of the population of that entity and they had a right to govern themselves in the area where they were the majority."

They had no right to dispossess non-Jews from the area where they were a majority and they had no right to dispossess non-Jews from territories the Israeli Government itself claimed on May 22nd 1948 were "outside the State of Israel" ... "in Palestine"

" The Palestinian Arabs who currently constitute a majority of the population in the formerly Jordanian-controlled part of the former British Mandate as well as in formerly
Egyptian-controlled Gaza also have a right to establish their own state in that area"

"Had the utopian Partition Plan been accepted by both sides (and not just one party) .. blah blah "

Nonsense. The plan was for "either" party to declare Independent Statehood. Independence is by its very nature unilateral. There was no provision in UNGA res 181 where the two parties were required to co-sign.

This was acknowledged by the Jewish AgencyFriday, 19 March 1948 Rabbi Silver replacing Mr. Shertok at the Council table as representative of the Jewish Agency for Palestine stated

“We are under the obligation at this time to repeat what we stated at a [262nd meeting] meeting of the Security Council last week: The decision of the General Assembly remains valid for the Jewish people. We have accepted it and we are prepared to abide by it. If the United Nations Palestine Commission is unable to carry out the mandates which were assigned to it by the General Assembly, the Jewish people of Palestine will move forward in the spirit of that resolution and will do everything which is dictated by considerations of national survival and by considerations of justice and historic rights.”“The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State.”

The statement that the plan proposed by the General Assembly is an integral plan which cannot succeed unless each of its parts can be carried out, is incorrect. This conception was never part of the plan. Indeed, it is contrary to the statement made by the representative of the United States during the second session of the General Assembly. The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State. Mr. Herschel Johnson, representing the United States delegation, speaking in a sub-committee of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question on 28 October 1947, stated, in discussing this very matter in connexion with economic union: “The element of mutuality would not necessarily be a factor, as the document might be signed by one party only.”

" Since it was rejected and never had a chance to be put into place etc etc"

"I’m glad that we agree that indeed, the vast majority of Jews today can claim deep roots in Ereṣ Yisra’el (including most likely the descendants of the Kaifeng Jewish community)."

You're delusional. I agreed you made the error you admitted making

"If I misunderstood your intent... etc"

You made an unsupportable accusation and no amount of your blabbering will change it

"Okay, if you didn’t make such an argument ..."

= I didn't make an argument against Jews having a shared national identity. I made an argument against what you later admitted was a mistake on your part

"So let me know when you will next be in the Israeli capital (Jerusalem) and I will contact my relatives to host you and show you our family records"

= A) You've proven nothing B) Jerusalem is not in Israel. UNSC res 476 - 1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem ;

"The document you incessantly link to was not a declaration of borders by the Provisional Government of Israel."

It's not my interpretation you poor poor fool. It's the official plea for recognition, and it is a declaration of frontiers by the Provisional Government of Israel. Here it is, verbatim

"... the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law."

" (also, here’s a homework assignment for you, look up the word “provisional” when you get a chance). There’s nothing in the plain meaning of the text to support your interpretation."

Save your stupid comments pal. You're way out of your depth. Read the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel you stupid stupid person

We declare that, with effect from the moment of the termination of the Mandate being tonight, the eve of Sabbath, the 6th Iyar, 5708 (15th May, 1948), until the establishment of the elected, regular authorities of the State in accordance with the Constitution which shall be adopted by the Elected Constituent Assembly not later than the 1st October 1948, the People's Council shall act as a Provisional Council of State, and its executive organ, the People's Administration, shall be the Provisional Government of the Jewish State, to be called "Israel."

The provisional Government was the only legal Government Israel has ever had. No Government has ever been elected under the promised constitution.

"(1) Israel never proclaimed its borders at independence. "

OK Have it your way.
They lied about UNGA res 181 being binding http://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/UNISPAL.NSF/0/02EA8C2370F7C75C85257656006775C1“As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding, and we are resolved to move forward in the spirit of that decision. “
They lied about UNGA res 181 in the Declaration of Statehood http://www.knesset.gov.il/docs/eng/megilat_eng.htm"On the 29th November, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel; the General Assembly required the inhabitants of Eretz-Israel to take such steps as were necessary on their part for the implementation of that resolution. This recognition by the United Nations of the right of the Jewish people to establish their State is irrevocable."
They lied in their plea for recognition

You must be so proud to support such blatant liars

" (2) There is no binding international law that fixes Israel’s borders."

Poor poor Mikhael"I am a Zionist. There are no indications of any supremacist leanings on my part in evidence."

The Zionist Federation decided in 1897 to start a financial pyramid scheme preying on poorer Jewish folk. In order for the scheme to work it was necessary to dispossess the Palestinians from their land.

Zionism by its very nature is supremacist

" I can’t help it if you can’t keep up, but I hope it’s an incentive for you to practice your reading and thinking skill"

" I think that the non-Jewish citizens of Israel, most of whom identify as Arab and proudly cherish their own Arab nationality (and other non-Jewish and non-Arab Israeli citizens), would resent being characterized as “Jewish” and having a Jewish identity foisted on them. However, as I’ve noted before, the Jewish State of Israel does apply the designation Israeli citizen to them."

" My father was only “Palestinian” from October 1932 until May 15, 1948 ... when “Palestine” ended"

No matter how many times you repeat bullsh*t it's still bullsh*t. The Israeli Government claimed it was fighting in and occupying non-Israeli territories "in Palestine" May 22nd 1948. http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk

“but I have held dual Israeli and American citizenship since I was born”

Bullsh*te! You were born in America in 1970. You could not have had Israeli citizenship until you immigrated to Israel

"I have a good Israeli anchor, which provides me with peace of mind that I will always have a country of my own to return to."

The US is your first country, not Israel

" You can get one too, if you’re really a Jew. (Not if it was up to me, though)"

The Naziesque nature of Zionism shows thru

"But if the USA or Israel ever in future pass a law banning dual citizenship, there’s no doubt I’d have to forfeit my US passport"

"Now, re-reading my comment, I will admit an error I made when I stated that ““[a]ll Jews can claim these deep roots in the country anyway”. That was a mistake on my part, I should have written “the vast majority of Jews can claim deep roots in the country” rather than “all.”

Indeed

" Your example of the Kaifeng Jewish community (or rather, the claimed descendants of the community who have re-embraced a Jewish identity, since the community effectively ceased to fucntion some centuries ago) is, however, a very poor example of a group that has no Jewish ancestry traceable to Ereṣ Yisra’el and indicates racist thinking on your part."

Typical Zionist in desperation ploy, make a completely unsupportable accusation.

"Your characterization of them as “very Chinese looking”

They don't look Chinese? WOW!! I wonder if they know

" It does show a racist obsession on your part"

Again with the nonsensical accusation.

" however. I suppose that if you have children (I shudder to imagine that you have procreated) "

I believe the expression is "Go f*ck yourself".

" .. who marry into an Asian-Australian family and produce “very Chinese looking offspring” who in turn marry Asians who have even more “Chinese looking offspring”, you will deny that they can be descended from you"

A false assumption based on your own imagination. Cute, but not unusual for a Zionist apologist. False accusations on behalf of the Jewish State's ongoing crimes, in total conflict with the most basic of Judaisms common sense tenets. Bizarre

"... it’s a silly argument to make against Jews having a shared national identity"

I didn't make any such argument. Another false accusation on your part

"I am in New York most of the year but I will probably be in ..etc etc etc"

Proves exactly nothing.

" Your counterfactual and tiresomely tendentious argument that Israel’s borders are delineated only by the 1947 Res. 181 Partition Lines has nothing to with the current topic under discussion"

B) They're Israel's ONLY Proclaimed and Internationally recognized borders. They have everything to do with the current topic

" My bringing up my ancestry was in direct response to “Mooser”‘s insinuation, that I, a scion of a family that has lived in the country for centuries somehow have a less right to live there as an Israeli Jew"

" ... but in my case, I come from a family that can document continual and unbroken residence in Galilee and Jerusalem from the 16th to the 21st centuries."

A) Prove it ...
B) So what, it's entirely irrelevant to the the limits of the Jewish State according to its self proclaimed and Internationally recognized borders and the Jewish State's illegal activities in territories outside the Jewish State

"Your comparison of the Hamas terrorists in Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto is obscene and offensive, an insult to the survivors and to the memory of the victims"

Only in the twisted mind of a sick Zionist propagandist

"Would one have accused the Jews, trapped in the Warsaw Ghetto of using the civilian population as human shields? I doubt it"

You failed to address the question.

"It can even be regarded as a form of Holocaust denial"

It acknowledges the Holocaust

"... the Jews, trapped in the Warsaw Ghetto ... "

"Unlike the Hamas terrorists ,the inhabitants of the Warsaw Ghetto were not firing rockets at the civilian population in Germany, were not digging tunnels into Germany, they had no conflict at all with Germany. "

A) The Jewish resistance tunnels, bunkers and weapons storage were under, over and amongst the Jewish population
B) https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Warsaw+Ghetto+resistance
C) the IDF memorial site records more attacks, injuries and deaths on Israeli military than on Israeli civilians
D) Get another job, propaganda is not your forte. Nor is teaching judging from the bullsh*t you spout

"However you’re ignoring the Hamas terrorists cynical strategy of using civilian facilities -schools, mosques, hospitals and such for military purposes, using the civilian population as human shields, deliberately increasing civilian casualties among their own people."

What's to ignore? Hamas didn't drop from the Ziosky. They're from, of, for and elected by the people, extremely unlikely to purposefully endanger those they're fighting for.

" The Hamas terrorists bear a large measure of responsibility for those casualties"

The Zionist Movement is entirely responsible since deciding in 1897 to colonize Palestine

"In Israel’s case the Jews have the Jewish historical heritage that goes back thousands of years. The Jews stem from the true indigenous population of Palestine going way way back. Therefore they have an entitlement that goes way beyond what sufficed for the colonial enterprises in Australia, US, Canada etc"

Interesting theory. However, it's completely irrelevant to the recognized sovereign extent of the State of Israel and that state's illegal activities outside of that state's territories.

BTW When our historical Jewish forefathers invaded the territory, it wasn't empty of non-Jews and it hasn't been empty of non-Jews to the present day

" .. Arabs maybe but they keep on letting hatred get in the way of better judgement"

A) What's to like about a state in blatant breach of the UN Charter, International Law, conventions relative to being the Occupying Power?
B) Their better judgement has been to adhere to International Law and the UN charter in respect to Israel's existence as a recognized state and UN Member, reminding Israel again and again thru UN/UNSC resolutions of its legal obligations towards the Palestinians

@ rosross "It is head-shaking to watch the stupidity of the Israelis on this count. They wanted a religious state with a Jewish majority and so made two states impossible which means they will get a democracy with an indigenous, non-Jewish, Palestinian majority. Own goal Israel."

Zionism doesn't care, it's a pyramid scheme from 1897 needing more and more territory in order to survive

"You and Mondoweiss don’t want a two-State solution, you want one Palestine, from the river to the sea. You want the end of the right of return of Jews to Eretz Yisroel. You want the Jewish State of Israel to disappear altogether"

Never quote an Israeli News service when the original documents are available

"Poll: Palestinians Prefer Federation With Jordan

Interestingly, a 46 percent plurality said that in place of an independent Palestinian state, they would prefer confederation with neighboring Jordan, where a majority of the population is “Palestinian” Arab."

• 46.1% of respondents supported the creation of a confederation with Jordan on the basis of two independent states with strong institutional relations

"A solution along those lines would actually be reverting to how things were before 1967 – with Jordan administering the so-called “West Bank”..."

The West bank was not 'administered' by Jordan. Under bilateral agreement with the representative of the majority of the legitimate population it was legally annexed to and sovereign to Jordan, who by 1967 was a UN Member State and a High Contracting Power.

The contracting states definitely establish as the rule of their conduct the precise obligation not to recognize territorial acquisitions or special advantages which have been obtained by force whether this consists in the employment of arms, in threatening diplomatic representations, or in any other effective coercive measure.

Meanwhile anyone who believes this piece of bullsh*t has any credence either has rocks in their head, hasn't thought about it or doesn't want to think about it ... "What army sends texts and phone calls to warn civilians of its intentions to attack and implores them to leave before the attack? "

Only the Occupying Power had the authority to close all of Gaza's crossings including, under the Peace Treaty and 2005 agreement, those with Egypt

ctzns "Th' most moral army in the world just warned us they're going to attack and implored us to leave!"

trrsts "They're so caring. Can we come too?"

ctzns "No. It's only for civilians."

trrsts "Oh. OK, seems fair. We 'll pretend we don't know. The IDF are so caring and clever!"

ctzns "... and kind! They warned us!"

trrsts "Of course, caring, clever and kind They warned you they were gonna destroy our homes"

ctzns "... and considerate! They allow us to flee!"

trrsts "Yes so moral, caring, clever, kind and considerate. BTW where will you flee to?"

ctzns "Oh, some other part of the war zone. I'm not quite sure. As far as the weakest can run in a few minutes ... gotta go. Bye!"

trrst1 "Ok. We'll just stay here and wait to be slaughtered."

ctzn Oh, BTW if you meet any of the most moral, caring, clever, kind and considerate army in the world, please thank them for us"

trrsts "Ok mother. We will. Enjoy. Bye."

... later ...
trrst2 "Hey. Why did you lie to mother about staying here waiting to be slaughtered?"

trrst1 "I didn't lie. The most moral, caring, clever, kind and considerate army in the world warned civilians before destroying their homes. One good turn always deserves another. Anyway it says here Laws of War, Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited."

trrst2 "So we stay and defend so they can bomb our homes. Ok, I can live with that."

trrst1 "You might not you know."

trrst2 "Oh well, there are knowns and unknowns we don't know and ... ... "

trrst1 "Whatever is Rumsfeld doing these days?"

trrst2 "Still deceiving himself I guess."

trrst 1 " Say, do we have anything capable of taking down a fighter bomber or a warship at sea?"

trrst2 "Nope!"

trrst1 "I might have known."

trrst2 "There are knowns and unknowns we don't know ... what do you think we should do?"

"and-fyi- there were apprx 800,000 jews from arab lands that were kicked out, moved or otherwise left their arab land, property and monies to move to israel between ’48 and ’75 and their offspring. "

FYI it's NORMAL and legal for countries at war to expel or intern possible allies of their enemies. The US, UK, Australia interned and expelled their own citizens of Japanese, Italian, German extraction and froze their assets during WW2. It's also NORMAL to allow their return, release and return of their their assets at the cessation of hostilities, unless of course they have chosen to take citizenship elsewhere, thereby forgoing refugee status.

German Jews have never the less been generously allowed return under German Law, including lineal descendants, even tho no longer refugees.

Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, more than 200,000 found refuge in Europe and North America while 586,000 were resettled in Israel - at great expense to the Israeli government, and without any compensation from the Arab governments who had confiscated their possessions. The majority of the Jewish refugees left their homes penniless and destitute and with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. These Jews, however, had no desire to be repatriated in the Arab World and little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/jew_refugees.html

" @talknic, your quote is from 2011. Today (from the same source Haaretz) all Abbas is interested in is incitement"

Uh huh.

"I say to him today..." Sep 22, 2016 " ... that our 1993 recognition of the existence of the State of Israel, a recognition which remains valid to this moment, is not a gratuitous recognition. Israel must reciprocate with recognition of the State of Palestine and an end to its occupation of the land, so that the State of Palestine can coexist alongside the State of Israel in peace and security and as good neighbors, each within secure and recognized borders" read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.743791

Support Mondoweiss’s independent journalism today

Mondoweiss brings you the news that no one else will. Your tax-deductible donation enables us to deliver information, analysis and voices stifled elsewhere. Please give now to maintain and grow this unique resource.

Sign up for Mondoweiss List

There are now two ways to get Mondoweiss delivered directly to your inbox! Sign up for a daily digest of every story we publish or a weekly collection of highlights picked by Mondoweiss staff to stay up to date with our independent coverage of events in Israel/Palestine.