TribeinLA wrote:1. Masterson2. Carrasco3. Tomlin4. Guthrie/Harang5. Carmona*Huff if needed of anyone who goes on DL. That doesn't look too shabby. Jimenez looks better on paper, but that right there is a solid rotation that will eat tons of innings, overall.

Except that Guthrie sucks and Harang is the benefactor of pitching in the best pitcher's park in baseball.

Pass on both.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

I wouldn't say Guthrie sucks. He's got a decent ERA and pitches in the toughest division. I'll agree...I will pass on him for another, but the point to my post was that we are Cleveland. Fuky was the epitome of the type of trades we'd make. Guthrie and Harang would be no exception. And Guthrie/Harang are HUGE upgrades over Talbot and Gomez and right now, even though he's pitching well, David Huff included.

TribeinLA wrote:I wouldn't say Guthrie sucks. He's got a decent ERA and pitches in the toughest division. I'll agree...I will pass on him for another, but the point to my post was that we are Cleveland. Fuky was the epitome of the type of trades we'd make. Guthrie and Harang would be no exception. And Guthrie/Harang are HUGE upgrades over Talbot and Gomez and right now, even though he's pitching well, David Huff included.

How about Marquis? I know very little of him.

Does Guthrie even crack our current rotation? I say no. I like the lefty in Huff. He's well behind Masterson, Tomlin, and Carrasco. Carmona stays in over him too. Unless we're getting a serious upgrade, the rotation's serviceable.

Marquis's FA at end of season. Awful last year and missed a lot of it. Decent this year. Not sure he's an upgrade over anyone in our current rotation. At least not enough of one to give up any assets. I think they're driving the price up for the Tigers, who he would be an upgrade for over Below or Penny.

Marquis has a decent track record, ok peripherals, never pitched in the AL, though.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Just remember, Guthrie is not what I want...he's what the front office would end up getting.

As far as cracking the rotation, I have to believe he's our 4 guy with the possibility of keeping Huff and moving Carmona (longshot) or putting Huff back in Columbus. He's a guy that could give us 6-7 IP 4/5 games. His numbers and his maturity are just more than Fausto or Huff seem to have. Don't get me wrong, Fausto has six times the upside of Guthrie. Again, I don't want him...but he's not going to make us worse and likely is a guy who needs change of scenery in that talented, but baffling awful Baltimore club.

At least with Marquis or Guthrie, we could maybe take the Fukodome approach...give up what'll amount to a bag of balls and see what happens. A lot better than betting the farm. Granted, we probably wouldn't catch lightning in a bottle with them, but for the right cost, it's worth a shot.

I'll say this...with all this team's flaws, a trade for Jiminez is going to open more holes than it will solve. Really, really hate to throw away so much patient rebuilding for one player, who isn't that special to begin with. I'm frankly shocked it's even being seriously discussed within the Indians front office. Yes, Jiminez has a team-friendly contract, but I'd much rather see what we've got with these young guys like Pomeranz and White, who will be under team control long after Jiminez would be gone.

I don't know about nothing special. The guy has gotten better every year. he is one he'll of a pitcher.the question now is that since the tigers blinked and will include turner, we must include white. I would be okay with trading White and phelps with a few other pieces to land a player like Ubaldo.

a rotation with masterson, pomeranz, tomlin, and Ubaldo would be pretty good and instantly the best in the central.

Last edited by Dnthateonthepronk on Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As a Tribe fan stuck in Red Sux country I have absolutely no problem with the Phillies shoring up their team. Either the Red Sux or skankees will be buying their way into the WS (with "just maybe/you never know/why did he make that call" help from the umps *WinkWink*???) so I'll be rooting for whatever team is playing for the NL...unless the end of the world is coming and the Tribe somehow is playing in the Big Show. The LAST team I want gloating over another ring is either the skankees or Red Sux.

I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.~~~Annie Savoy-"Bull Durham"

So, do any of you think we can pull Jimenez with Alex White, Cord Phelps, and a lower level?

Where does that leave us room for aquiring another bat -- which is more important I think than another arm? What will we have left to give up for a Ludwick or an Upton? Would SD take R. Perez and that's it? Would you be willing to give up Perez?

Some say Pomeranz is going to possibly be in the rotation in September? REALLY? He's ready to make that jump. It's just hard for me to see it because two years ago I was watching him pitch for Ole Miss...and he was good, but wasn't the best pitcher in the league. He was behind Anthony Ranaudo, Louis Coleman, and -- name escapes me -- a gun-slinger for Arkansas. Not to mention, overall, UVA and Hultsen, White at UNC, Steven S. at SDSU and Texas had Jungman. None of those guys are up currently but for Coleman who is a reliever for a bad KC team. Drew must really be turning heads.

My untouchables are Pomeranz, Kipnis, and what about that Washington kid? We still have him?

I'd be willing to give up Alex White, Carrera, Phelps, Carmona (for the RIGHT deal only), Chisenall, and the Weglarz kid (who I know little about). Plenty to argue with there for some of you, but that's just the way I feel. As far as guys on our roster who I wouldn't touch: Sipp, C Perez, Droobs, Santana, Masterson, Carrasco (if he can play nice), and Tomlin. I see all others from Joe Smith to R. Perez to La Porta ( if anyone would even want him) to Pestano to even Branley as touchable from the standpoint that we get a franchise signing and not a jet ski rental in the deal. I know...little chance of that for a small-market team. Sizemore is almost done it seems. He's a china doll. Pronk is worth keeping one more year thru his contract end. Carmona is Carmona. Let's see how I feel on Monday. He could throw a 2 hit shutout and it wouldn't shock me.

I don't want to sell away all the talent we have stocked in AA and AAA. I also know the Dolans would spend when the time was right. I'm wanting to know when that is. When all of these guys are priming and we have a rotation of Masterson, Pomeranz, Carrasco, Tomlin, and White (if he's not a trade piece) then what will be the point of spending? By then, we'll have all the pieces. I'm not sure I even know what I want. BUT that is how badly I want to win the Central and try our luck in a short series at Fenway with Masterson squaring off vs. Beckett in game one. It sure would be fun to watch.

9:05am: Lefty Charlie Furbush is among the players expected to go to Seattle in a Fister trade, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports. The Tigers are trying to get a reliever other than Brandon League as well.

8:48am: The Tigers are making progress on a deal for Mariners righty Doug Fister, tweets ESPN's Jerry Crasnick, with hopes of getting something done today.

Fister, 27, has a 3.33 ERA, 5.5 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 0.43 HR/9, and 46.4% groundball rate in 146 innings this year. His walk rate ranks seventh in the AL among those with 100 or more innings. He's under team control through 2015 and won't be arbitration eligible until after next season.

GMs Dave Dombrowski and Jack Zduriencik hooked up on a trade almost exactly two years ago, when the Tigers acquired Jarrod Washburn, according to our Transaction Tracker.

Ubaldo Jimenez Rumors: SaturdayBy Tim Dierkes [July 30 at 8:59am CST]

Yesterday we learned that the Tigers have strong interest in Rockies' ace Ubaldo Jimenez, showing a willingness to include top prospect Jacob Turner, who is being called up. However, Detroit may be out for now and the chances of any Jimenez deal may have slipped below 50%. The latest:

In addition to Turner and maybe Rick Porcello or Max Scherzer, the Rockies asked the Tigers for outfielder Brennan Boesch, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports. Knobler notes that Turner is starting for the Tigers today. The Indians were willing to discuss southpaw pitching prospect Drew Pomeranz, reports Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post. Pomeranz is ranked anywhere from #14 to #35 among all teams by prospect experts. Red Sox third base prospect Will Middlebrooks and righty Anthony Ranaudo are of interest to Colorado, adds Renck. The Rockies want Ivan Nova and two of Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances, and Jesus Montero from the Yankees, reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post. Sherman writes, "to say the Yankees and Rockies are not finding common ground on Jimenez’s value is an understatement." The Red Sox, Tigers, and Indians remain involved, while the Reds are "less heated to make a deal." "Rival executives believe that if the Rockies lower their asking price at all today, it will signal clear intent to move the pitcher," tweets ESPN's Buster Olney.

The Yankees are hearing that the Rockies may lower the price on Jimenez today, tweets Ken Rosenthal, but still not to a point that they consider realistic.The Indians, Red Sox, Blue Jays, and Reds are still in on Jimenez, tweets SI's Jon Heyman, and he's not counting out the Yankees.

Im starting to think that The Rockies only want to do a deal with the Skankees, everything they seem to be doing appears to be trying to manipulate or appease them. I guess they really want at least one of their top guys over everybody else's.

TribeinLA wrote:So, do any of you think we can pull Jimenez with Alex White, Cord Phelps, and a lower level?

God I hope so. Although it would probably take a lower level, Jeanmar Gomez and a reliever like Hagadone as well.

Absolutely no way Colorado does that deal. There have been reports that they want 3 top end prospects. Phelps isn't even close to top end. Take a look at the reported prospects the Rockies would want from the Yankees or Tigers, and White, Phelps, Gomez doesn't come close to those.

TribeinLA wrote:So, do any of you think we can pull Jimenez with Alex White, Cord Phelps, and a lower level?

God I hope so. Although it would probably take a lower level, Jeanmar Gomez and a reliever like Hagadone as well.

Absolutely no way Colorado does that deal. There have been reports that they want 3 top end prospects. Phelps isn't even close to top end. Take a look at the reported prospects the Rockies would want from the Yankees or Tigers, and White, Phelps, Gomez doesn't come close to those.

again its what they want, it doesnt mean that is what they will get, if they are really intent on trading Jimenez then the price will lower. Outside of a team losing their mind, they wont get what they are asking for.

also I wasnt referring to Gomez as the lower level: its a lower level high upside guy and Gomez and Hagadone.

TribeinLA wrote:So, do any of you think we can pull Jimenez with Alex White, Cord Phelps, and a lower level?

God I hope so. Although it would probably take a lower level, Jeanmar Gomez and a reliever like Hagadone as well.

Absolutely no way Colorado does that deal. There have been reports that they want 3 top end prospects. Phelps isn't even close to top end. Take a look at the reported prospects the Rockies would want from the Yankees or Tigers, and White, Phelps, Gomez doesn't come close to those.

again its what they want, it doesnt mean that is what they will get, if they are really intent on trading Jimenez then the price will lower. Outside of a team losing their mind, they wont get what they are asking for.

also I wasnt referring to Gomez as the lower level: its a lower level high upside guy and Gomez and Hagadone.

Even so, just look at the differences in proposed offers. They want Nova and two of Montero (8), Banuelos (13), and Betances (26) from the Yankees. Jacob Turner (11) and ML talent from the Tigers. Ranaudo (37) and more from the Sox. Pomeranz (14) from us. Even if they come down from that, White, Gomez, Phelps, and Hagadone is such a steep decrease in talent from any of those offers. I just can't see the Rockies even considering that deal when this is their starting asking price.

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:Even so, just look at the differences in proposed offers. They want Nova and two of Montero (8), Banuelos (13), and Betances (26) from the Yankees. Jacob Turner (11) and ML talent from the Tigers. Ranaudo (37) and more from the Sox. Pomeranz (14) from us. Even if they come down from that, White, Gomez, Phelps, and Hagadone is such a steep decrease in talent from any of those offers. I just can't see the Rockies even considering that deal when this is their starting asking price.

Teams always shoot high, the asking price is always ridiculous. Its a game of cat and mouse, if they are really intent on trading him, then they will take the best offer, and when it comes to the skankees and the Rockies negotiations, the skankees have basically told them to F#@% off they arnt getting what they are asking for from them.

Last edited by Dnthateonthepronk on Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yesterday we learned that the Tigers have strong interest in Rockies' ace Ubaldo Jimenez, showing a willingness to include top prospect Jacob Turner, who is being called up to start today but not as a showcase. However, Detroit may be out for now and the chances of any Jimenez deal may have slipped below 50%. The latest:

The price on Jimenez has come down a tad, tweets Jon Heyman. He says the Rockies are no longer asking for Banuelos from the Yankees; Betances, Nova, and Montero would work. That's similar to what Joel Sherman wrote earlier today. The two teams have not talked today, tweets Troy Renck.When you click on the link it says the Skankees said no to Colorado One executive who has been speaking with the Rockies and Reds believes the teams "have discussed an expanded version that could include someone like Seth Smith, because the Reds also have been targeting controllable bats," reports ESPN's Jayson Stark.

Good Chance Of Ludwick To IndiansBy Tim Dierkes [July 30 at 3:00pm CST]

3:00pm: Yahoo's Tim Brown sees the Ludwick field as the Indians and Pirates, with the Indians more likely.

1:58pm: Talks between the Padres and Indians have some traction, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney, and there appears to be a good chance the two teams will work out a deal for Ludwick.

1:05pm: The price to acquire Padres right fielder Ryan Ludwick won't be too high, tweets Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. He says the Indians are still interested. SI's Jon Heyman considers the Tribe the favorite, as it seems like the Braves and Reds are concentrating on others.

Given Ludwick's .238/.301/.372 line in 416 plate appearances, unloading most of his remaining $2.27MM should be GM Jed Hoyer's primary goal.

Good Chance Of Ludwick To IndiansBy Tim Dierkes [July 30 at 3:00pm CST]

3:00pm: Yahoo's Tim Brown sees the Ludwick field as the Indians and Pirates, with the Indians more likely.

1:58pm: Talks between the Padres and Indians have some traction, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney, and there appears to be a good chance the two teams will work out a deal for Ludwick.

1:05pm: The price to acquire Padres right fielder Ryan Ludwick won't be too high, tweets Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. He says the Indians are still interested. SI's Jon Heyman considers the Tribe the favorite, as it seems like the Braves and Reds are concentrating on others.

Given Ludwick's .238/.301/.372 line in 416 plate appearances, unloading most of his remaining $2.27MM should be GM Jed Hoyer's primary goal.

well this will make TribeinLA happy

They better give next to nothing for him. Because he's not jump starting a lineup and his solid, professional production (as well as Fukudome's) mean nothing if the other 3-5 guys in the lineup supposed to hit don't hit.

I don't know about Ludwick. I guess if the price is basically the same as it was for Fukudome, I won't mind it, but I won't be doing cartwheels either. His price better be a third tier prospect..say someone like TJ House in Kinston or TJ MacFarland in Akron.

peeker643 wrote:They better give next to nothing for him. Because he's not jump starting a lineup and his solid, professional production (as well as Fukudome's) mean nothing if the other 3-5 guys in the lineup supposed to hit don't hit.

I agree, I dont mind the move as long as they dont give up anything to get him

Rival teams believe the Rockies match up best with the Indians, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (on Twitter).

I expect the price for Jimenez will be Pomeranz or White, with Hagadone, a current SP (? Carmona), and a lesser prospect thrown in. Shoot..it might be Pomeranz and White, although that might be a little much.

Bigfist wrote:I expect the price for Jimenez will be Pomeranz or White, with Hagadone, a current SP (? Carmona), and a lesser prospect thrown in. Shoot..it might be Pomeranz and White, although that might be a little much.

Just not sure what point that serves until a year or two down the road when the gang that can't hit straight actually matures and can hit. Love Ubaldo and I'm not entirely against using prospects for proven major leaguers. Believe me. And he is under control for three more years.

But it seems odd to do it this year only to increase the likelihood you lose more like the days Masterson pitches than when Talbot/Carrasco (right now) pitch.

End of the day, because of the player control issues I probably pay a really steep price for the guy. But it would again be more for next year and beyond than with any expectations for this season.

Understand this would be all she wrote though. There are no more Whites/Pomeranz's and Hagadones you can flip down there if you give them all up today. Maybe in a year or two but that would be optimistic. Very optimistic.

OK with Ludwick as long as they don't give up anything. But if they go that route, I'd go ahead and get Derrick Lee for 1B as well on the idea that the more pasta you throw against the wall, the more chances something will stick. Again, that's as long as they're essentially getting them for free. Then if they can use "real" prospects for "real" talent at the deadline, so much the better.

Bigfist wrote:I expect the price for Jimenez will be Pomeranz or White, with Hagadone, a current SP (? Carmona), and a lesser prospect thrown in. Shoot..it might be Pomeranz and White, although that might be a little much.

Just not sure what point that serves until a year or two down the road when the gang that can't hit straight actually matures and can hit. Love Ubaldo and I'm not entirely against using prospects for proven major leaguers. Believe me. And he is under control for three more years.

But it seems odd to do it this year only to increase the likelihood you lose more like the days Masterson pitches than when Talbot/Carrasco (right now) pitch.

End of the day, because of the player control issues I probably pay a really steep price for the guy. But it would again be more for next year and beyond than with any expectations for this season.

Understand this would be all she wrote though. There are no more Whites/Pomeranz's and Hagadones you can flip down there if you give them all up today. Maybe in a year or two but that would be optimistic. Very optimistic.

Just saw that Ubaldo's 2014 team option is voided if he's dealt. So he's controllable for next year and the year after.

Yep. I just don't get it, myself. They're basically considering trading 2 or even 3 of the guys we were planning on building around for the next six years. It's such a headscratcher move. Give up Pomeranz and/or White, and who's pitching behind Jiminez and Masterson? Worse yet, who's left when they're both gone after 2013?

And don't get me started on the infield. Who's our second and/or third baseman? Donald? Phelps?? Re-sign Uncle O-Cab?

Jiminez is a very good pitcher, but I'm inclined to think they're more tempted by the friendly contract than they are the pitcher.

And what if this a-hole blows his arm out? We'll be shit out of luck. Small-market trams like ours CANNOT afford to put all their eggs in one basket. There is far too much risk involved with this deal.

Adverb Harry wrote:And what if this a-hole blows his arm out? We'll be shit out of luck. Small-market trams like ours CANNOT afford to put all their eggs in one basket. There is far too much risk involved with this deal.