The Formula 100 has always been the obvious choice to check out. I think you'll like it.

400 Tour will prob need some lead in the hoop. Its a little more control oriented & less powerful off the ground than the APDGT but hits a very spinny ball that just might fit your described game. Serve is not any more powerful than the APDGT but just seems easier & effortless. The feel is quite different from the Babs.

XV1 MP - I really liked this frame, has all the characteristics of the PD that I like. A touch less power but more spin on serve, and is actually arm friendly. Hits at a lower trajectory (just like the 100s) than the Babs for me.

100s - I got one demo that was strung tightly with a multi and it actually felt harsh. The TW vibration frequency chart places it above the APDGT as well. The second demo I got had loose multi strings and felt pretty soft.

BB London - great feel, tons of spin, but is lower powered on groundstrokes and serves.

Exo Tour 18x20 - hits a loopy ball for me with massive spin, good control and power when swung fast, good on volleys. Wasn't too impressive on serve speed.

Juice 100 - I mentioned this in the past. It feels and looks more like a 102sq in head size. With volkl cyclone in it and lead in the hoop, it had so much power, spin, and hit such a heavy penetrating ball it almost felt like cheating. I'd say I felt a bit less control compared to a PD. It might be too stiff for you though.

Pro Open - plays like a lighter, flexier, lower powered, and slightly better feeling version of the APDGT.

Well... as I said re the Vantage BC30 above ^, that frame killed my arm and I think that was in the 50s RA. Still, even if the odd anomalies exist, how else can we get at least a general idea of racket stiffness?

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The stiffness numbers will give you a general idea on the stiffness of a racket but will not accurately or reliably tell you if one frame is arm-friendlier than another. According to various posters, there are frames, other than the one you mentioned, that have an RA in the 50s and yet are very stressful to the arm. Likewise, there are frames that are close to 70 RA there are much kinder/gentler to the arm than frames with lower stifness numbers.

There is no guarantee that a racket with a flex of 60 is going to be better for your arm than one that has a flex of 68. The flex/stiffness ratings do not tell you how much frame shock is delivered to the arm. The flex ratings do not relect the effect of shock-damping technologies built into racquet frames.

The damping technology built into most modern Volkl (and Boris Becker) rackets is much better that most other rackets. However, it appears that the damping in the Volkl V1 Classic is even better than the newer offerings from Volkl. Some Prince frames worth considering:

Instead of putting a lot of stock into flex ratings, take a look at the Comfort scores in the TW racket reviews. Generally, anything higher than 80 tends to be kind/gentle on the arm. Couple this score with feedback from users. These should provide a better indicator than flex ratings. Some decent additional info about flex/stiffness ratings in this thread (also see page 2):

The stiffness numbers will give you a general idea on the stiffness of a racket but will not accurately or reliably tell you if one frame is arm-friendlier than another. According to various posters, there are frames, other than the one you mentioned, that have an RA in the 50s and yet are very stressful to the arm. Likewise, there are frames that are close to 70 RA there are much kinder/gentler to the arm than frames with lower stifness numbers.

There is no guarantee that a racket with a flex of 60 is going to be better for your arm than one that has a flex of 68. The flex/stiffness ratings do not tell you how much frame shock is delivered to the arm. The flex ratings do not relect the effect of shock-damping technologies built into racquet frames.

The damping technology built into most modern Volkl (and Boris Becker) rackets is much better that most other rackets. However, it appears that the damping in the Volkl V1 Classic is even better than the newer offerings from Volkl. Some Prince frames worth considering:

Instead of putting a lot of stock into flex ratings, take a look at the Comfort scores in the TW racket reviews. Generally, anything higher than 80 tends to be kind/gentle on the arm. Couple this score with feedback from users. These should provide a better indicator than flex ratings. Some decent additional info about flex/stiffness ratings in this thread (also see page 2):

I don't know how much it will help, but the Comfort Hybrid grip on the Wilson Juice 108 might make it a bit easier on the arm than the 100 or Pro versions of the Juice. You might add some lead tape to make it a bit heavier and subdue the frame shock even more.

Here is an interesting piece on flex/stiffness ratings **************:

Flex: While flex sounds like it should be an easy to understand, it is slightly more complicated than the simple number that we or anyone else lists for flex. The unfortunate truth is that given current testing equipment designed for use on racquets, the flex is only measured at one point along the length of the racquet, that being the throat. While this can give a rough estimate for some frames, it does a disservice because many of the material compositions of frames today alter the stiffness based on the location along the racquet to serve specific purposes. A famous example of this would be tapered beam sections of the Wilson Hammer line of racquets. By making the beam width thinner in the throat area, it offered a softer flex when measured, but the much thicker hoop area of the frame was also significantly stiffer, which could not be easily measured. As expected, the stiffer a frame is, the harsher it is on the arm.

This is for two reasons: shock and vibration. It is important to realize that these are different aspects and they affect the body in slightly different ways. Shock is most often associated with hitting off center, as an extremely harsh torque felt especially in the hand, wrist, and elbow. This also occurs on shots hit in the sweet spot, but the energy absorption and repulsion of the strings do mitigate some of the impact forces, so the feeling is not as severe. Vibration on the other hand, is the residual waves of frequency that radiate down the frame and into the arm. This is typically not felt by the player on the court, and will usually only result in soreness after the fact, but can be enough to also cause problems. Most often this vibration is the result of a frame being too light that it is not able to dampen the incoming frequency of waves, but can occurs in heavier frames as well. Interestingly, shock is typically associated with stiffer frames, while vibrational damage is more likely in more flexible frames. While the more flexible frame will typically dampen the amplitude, or strength of the wave, depending on the frequency, it can still cause major problems to a players arm.

For this reason, when it comes to flex, the idea is to look for something that is relatively low in flex, but as frames become more flexible they tend to lose some of their stability. This, in addition to various technologies designed to alleviate tennis elbow, makes it difficult to judge a frame based on only one isolated flex measurement. For this reason, we suggest that you do not take the flex rating as an “end all” searching solution, but instead focus on it as a piece to a much more complicated puzzle.

That's funny because all 3 of the frames you've name-checked have appealed to me and I've been interested in before. If you don't mind, could you pass a few brief comments on how these all match up IYO, like most powerful, best feel, best spin, etc. Thx

Really splitting hairs on all three categories. They are all very similar. The Extreme really excels in plow through and comfort so would actually be the winner for me overall. The 400T is a real sleeper but I did have a little stability issue with this as it has a very low swing weight. This racquet screams out for lead and once applied is a very special stick. The only problem I found was that in order to get plow up to my liking the power level becomes a little too much for me. If I was to venture a guess on which one you would like the most, I would say it would be the Volkl. Similar crisp feel to the APD (without being an arm shredder), is a spin monster, serves like Pure Drive.

Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank for you?

hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank for you?

hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

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V1 classic comes as MP and OS. Seriously tempted to try one but the chaepest I can find one is £145. Another one to check out is the PK Ki5 295 which seems to have all the attributes you are looking for.

Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank for you?

hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

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It's a 102 no frying pan....plays Midplus...be patient....we bought 2 of the frames she has off c list....I paid $100 for the pair...bought new grommets on TW = perfect.

Modified with TW leather grips to increase plow was the only modification needed. NO LEAD, had it on at 3/ 9 and removed it, not needed.

So I bought 1 new and 2 used ttl about $300 spent including the grip replacement and new strings installed.

... hrstat57 (and others) - Aren't these V1 Classics OS? How 'big' does it play? Not too much like a great frying pan?!

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The Volkl V1 Classic at 102 sq" is a midplus. As far as I know, it is not available in an OS version. It is moderately powered and forgiving with a generous sweet spot (due to its Big Grommet technology). It provides an excellent blend of power, control, feel and comfort. The power/control aspect can easily be adjusted by varying the string tension.

With a strung weight of 10.5-10.8 oz and a swingweight of 310-316, it easily lends itself to customization by adding a bit of lead tape. The racquet feels very stable on most shots. There are a few times when it does not feel quite as crisp as I would like it. This could probably be rectified with a change in string tension (or a bit of lead tape).

Even tho' this model has been around since 1994 (with only cosmetic changes, as far as it know), it still sells for $159 new from many sources. You might be able to find some used frames online since it has been around so long.

Ross_K, so I hit with the X Fast Pro yesterday for a bit during warmup. I hate to 'damn this racquet with faint praise', but effectively that is what I'm going to do.

At first, it felt nice. A bit crisper than the X Force Pro, but not nearly as harsh as the 68 stiffness might suggest. Power was OK. Again, not as low-powered as the X Force Pro, but not a rocket launcher by any means. I didn't really notice the extra 1/4".

I think what I didn't like was the weight, and effectively, they way it felt when swinging. While spec say head-light, it definitely felt head-heavier than my X Force Pro. When I switched back to the X Force Pro, I could immediately feel the mass & plow-through difference.

Now, I didn't serve or volley with it (I'm hitting again tomorrow & will give it a swing again), so maybe it has nice pop & maneuverability. I'll update again after the hit.

I have one of those for demo as well. I really like this frame, and believe if given some weight in the handle to bring it close to 12oz strung, it would play real solid. I'd recommend that over the X Fast myself, but it may not have the power Ross_K is looking for. Then again, with another 1 1/2 oz added, it very well may.

Murray - Oh mate, I've had a feeling for a while the Volkl X 315 could be of special interest to me. I've always rated Volkl build quality (a la the C10 Pro)... another frame then to contend with... BTW, You ever hit with a Juice 100? If so, where does it rank?

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I agree Volkl IMO makes a very high quality product. Never tried the Juice 100 but have to to admit it has been on my tweener radar for awhile. I really think you should demo the X8 300 and the X8 315. The 300 would be the closest comparison in static weight and swingweight to your APDO.

McLovin - okay, so X Fast is probably not your cup of tea (I know how much you love the altogether superb X Force Pro), and from a lot of research I've done, don't think I'm going to prioritize checking it out either. Seems a few frames are pretty similar indeed to this too.

All - so I've had a ton of great frame recs on this thread. So hard to work out what I do want to look into due to certain variables plus the difficult demoing situation here in England, but right now I'm most preoccupied with (though I'm kind of adding and taking away from it all the time):

Formula 100
100S and/or EZone Xi 100
Warrior
Juice 100

It occurs to me now also though that FWIW maybe I should also mention a few other things that appeal to me as well as not wanting my arm decimated (LOL!)... and this is in chronological order of importance too.

Ross, I'm in a similar situation and had the opportunity to hit with a few sticks lately. My short list came down to the following:
Roddick Pure Drive, Head Instinct MP, Dunlop 400 Tour, Yonex 100s and XI 100 and the Wilson Juice (Pro and Non)

After hitting with all of these for a few minutes, some were nixed right away. Both of the Juice frames (way too stiff and vibrations were bad), XI 100 (way too much power, lacked control).

Something felt off with the Dunlop for some reason, wish I could elaborate. I could probably learn to love it and seemed to be a nice stick. Same goes for the Head Instinct, my problem with it was I felt it could get pushed around by a heavy ball.

Even though I know that the RPD is a stiff stick, it didn't play that way to me on that day. I may just have not had enough time with it to accurately judge it. (Same could be said about all of these frames though.) What worked for me as soon as I began hitting with it though was the Vcore 100s. It seemed that I could do no wrong with it. I hit some nice serves, hit several nice slices and drop shots and hit penetrating shots as well. Spin was great coming off the string bed as well. I also did not feel that the frame would get pushed around by the heavy ball. It was strung with Yonex 850 multi and seemed a little mushy, but it worked for me. Felt easy on the arm, build quality is amazing.

Ross, I'm in a similar situation and had the opportunity to hit with a few sticks lately. My short list came down to the following:
Roddick Pure Drive, Head Instinct MP, Dunlop 400 Tour, Yonex 100s and XI 100 and the Wilson Juice (Pro and Non)

After hitting with all of these for a few minutes, some were nixed right away. Both of the Juice frames (way too stiff and vibrations were bad), XI 100 (way too much power, lacked control).

Something felt off with the Dunlop for some reason, wish I could elaborate. I could probably learn to love it and seemed to be a nice stick. Same goes for the Head Instinct, my problem with it was I felt it could get pushed around by a heavy ball.

Even though I know that the RPD is a stiff stick, it didn't play that way to me on that day. I may just have not had enough time with it to accurately judge it. (Same could be said about all of these frames though.) What worked for me as soon as I began hitting with it though was the Vcore 100s. It seemed that I could do no wrong with it. I hit some nice serves, hit several nice slices and drop shots and hit penetrating shots as well. Spin was great coming off the string bed as well. I also did not feel that the frame would get pushed around by the heavy ball. It was strung with Yonex 850 multi and seemed a little mushy, but it worked for me. Felt easy on the arm, build quality is amazing.

Just my thoughts on the stick; give it a try.

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Really interesting, especially re the 100S. Along with the Formula 100 and perhaps the Warrior (though those TW reviews and other reports slightly make me wonder, ie is the feel that's lacking, and would the 03 White be more up my street as I understand it's maybe a tad more powerful?) Anyhow, that VC 100S is absolutely in my top 3 of what I'd like to look at. It's had such across the board praise and for so long, it has to be a heck of a frame.

Volkl seems to always have verbiage overlap with the racquet lines. While there isn't a V1 Classic OS, there is an Organix V1 Oversize, and an Organix V1 MP, both of which are currently for sale right here at TW. The V1 Classic, is one of the biggest sellers in the Volkl line, so they piggyback on that that popularity by creating an "updated" V1, with every new technology roll out. So looking back thru the years I count at least 15 different frames with the "V1" in the name. There were V1 MP and OS Versions found in the DNX, Powerbridge, Quantum, Hotspot, and Catapault Technology lines just to name a few.

Having said that, there are actually three slight dif versions of the V1 Classic. MP (102)

ross k, regarding the prince racquets such as the O3 white and warrior,

when i first got back into the game, i played with a EXO3 white for 6 months and at the time i thought it was great!! but after playing with old and new head mps (pt630, bumblebee radical and original speeds) plus my foray into yonex racquets in terms of ball feel the prince racquets just didnt match up.

yes the prince frames were very easy to play with, sweetspot was unparalleled and spin action was crazy with easy power, yet accurate ball feel and consistent response are attributes of a racquet i feel are must haves and the frames im used to playing with now beat the prince in these attributes. having said that i have only played with the EXO3 white, EXO3 black and an O3 original red.

for my money if i was looking to switch to a "tweenerish frame that won't shred your arm to pieces" my picks in no particular order would be:
vcore 100s
donnay x-p dual black 102
speed 300

imo there are just so many choices of frames in this category that you really do have to just be super selective, know what you like and perhaps choose racquets that are a little bit special.

I find it interesting that the Warrior comes up so much in this thread, because the review wasn't that great.

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What people need to realize is that the review is just 4 different people!
There have been many racquets that got sub average reviews on TW that I loved and vice versa. The only opinion that really matters is your own.

ross k, regarding the prince racquets such as the O3 white and warrior,

when i first got back into the game, i played with a EXO3 white for 6 months and at the time i thought it was great!! but after playing with old and new head mps (pt630, bumblebee radical and original speeds) plus my foray into yonex racquets in terms of ball feel the prince racquets just didnt match up.

yes the prince frames were very easy to play with, sweetspot was unparalleled and spin action was crazy with easy power, yet accurate ball feel and consistent response are attributes of a racquet i feel are must haves and the frames im used to playing with now beat the prince in these attributes. having said that i have only played with the EXO3 white, EXO3 black and an O3 original red.

for my money if i was looking to switch to a "tweenerish frame that won't shred your arm to pieces" my picks in no particular order would be:
vcore 100s
donnay x-p dual black 102
speed 300

imo there are just so many choices of frames in this category that you really do have to just be super selective, know what you like and perhaps choose racquets that are a little bit special.

wildcard entry: EXO3 tour team

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Quoted for truth... super selective, absolutely.

Re Princes, previously I've appreciated that easy swinging, big power and spin and grip shape. Couldn't quite get with the EXo Tour 100 though (turned me into Road Runner continually zooming around getting the ball back but not putting it away).

Like you though, in the past I've had more of a thing for quality build/sweet swinging ways/solidness etc of Head MPs (Pres Pro, PT630, i Prestige, etc). It's taken years to figure out but TBH these are a bit too demanding for me and my game suits tweenerish frames a little better. I've never played any of the Speeds.

. Which one of the above serves with the most pop?
. Which one suits medium-swing, loopy motion etc?
. Which is the easiest to swing?

TIA

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In my hands the Pro Open had the most pop on serve. Not by a wide margin though. The Warrior & F100 can bring the heat as well.
For the swing style & ease of swing I hesitate to say the Formula 100 may be the pick of the 3 because its swing weight is the heaviest yet it's still easy to swing. If you said you have a fast, low to hi swing I would point toward the pro open but these are more or less 3 peas in a pod. You just have to see which feels best when you hit. The Pro Open has that 'Wilson' feel I like. The Warrior is very muted IMO. The Donnay sits in between.

In my hands the Pro Open had the most pop on serve. Not by a wide margin though. The Warrior & F100 can bring the heat as well.
For the swing style & ease of swing I hesitate to say the Formula 100 may be the pick of the 3 because its swing weight is the heaviest yet it's still easy to swing. If you said you have a fast, low to hi swing I would point toward the pro open but these are more or less 3 peas in a pod. You just have to see which feels best when you hit. The Pro Open has that 'Wilson' feel I like. The Warrior is very muted IMO. The Donnay sits in between.

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Agree. Those 3 are so similar and they will all work. Just depends on which you personally like best.

Took one of my daughter's frames for another spin today during a couple of sets of recreational tennis.

Had 2 i Prestige MP in the bag today with the V1 Classic as a third and was able to mix it in a bit without a lot of adjustment, it was a similar hit, much bigger sweetspot than the 18x20 MP's tho certainly a bit lighter.

If you have previously dialed in to Head 630 18x20 MP's I think the Classic is a must on your try list. It will feel like an old friend only easier to hit. If I had arm problems I would switch today....but I don't for now so I will press on with the Head MP's.

Here is more praise for the V1 classic, there is absolutely no vibration felt with this racket, you get all the benefits of a stiff racket with the highest level of comfort. This is because of the handle technology. It does everything well and when I first hit with it I couldn't believe how solid it felt, it requires no customization because it is more solid feeling than any 12+ ounce racket I've used, including : Pro staff ROK, Prestige Mid, K6.1 90, PB 10 mid, and PSL to mention a few of the rackets I've owned.
Every once in a while I pick up one of my flexible rackets and hit a few balls with it but quickly put it down because the recoil and vibration transferred to my arm causes pain. Then, after I hit a few balls with the V1, I grin with slight disbelief at how a racket can feel so amazing. Put this one on your demo list for sure.

I'll throw mine out there... the Dunlop Bio500t. The 100sq.in. head runs long from 12o'clock to 6, more oval. Comfortable frame, nice pop on serve and the back side (which I know is a personal must).

As for the warrior100, it's a nice frame for sure. Comfy, wide open and easy access to spin BUT as with all Prince frames, it just feels as if there is no substance to it, despite the weight or mods. The ball feel attributes to this big time.

The Vcore100s is a nice frame for sure. So solid feeling and great, correction, spectacular from the back-hand side (as with all Yonex frames 98sq.in. and above, the real estate is generous). But it is stiff, first time in my life I've experienced elbow pain was with this frame. If you tend to never hit the top portion of the string-bed on serve and forehand, it could be a winner. So responsive and crisp, maybe too much so, balls were flying off the face a little too hot for me, but a nice racquet.

I actually want to take the Form100 out for a test drive after reading this thread, good reviews and comments.

Based on the criteria in your first post Ross, I would go with the ezone xi. If you are after build quality, pop spin and most of all good feel, I would take this one. I know you like full beds of shaped poly in the low 50s, thats perfect for this frame, power level almost identical to the apd, insane stability, more pop on serve etc...you dont have to customize.

I saw vandeweghe play serena live with this frame, coco was hitting bigger...

The formula 100 is nothing special, dodgy qc, if you have an old pd with silicone in the handle thats exactly what it is.

Based on the criteria in your first post Ross, I would go with the ezone xi. If you are after build quality, pop spin and most of all good feel, I would take this one. I know you like full beds of shaped poly in the low 50s, thats perfect for this frame, power level almost identical to the apd, insane stability, more pop on serve etc...you dont have to customize.

I saw vandeweghe play serena live with this frame, coco was hitting bigger...

The formula 100 is nothing special, dodgy qc, if you have an old pd with silicone in the handle thats exactly what it is.

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In the immortal words of Dora The Explorer... "Oh maaaaan!"

Don't say this to me FK, I'm literally about 20 minutes away from pulling the trigger on buying a Formula 100!:shock:

Here is more praise for the V1 classic, there is absolutely no vibration felt with this racket, you get all the benefits of a stiff racket with the highest level of comfort. This is because of the handle technology. It does everything well and when I first hit with it I couldn't believe how solid it felt, it requires no customization because it is more solid feeling than any 12+ ounce racket I've used, including : Pro staff ROK, Prestige Mid, K6.1 90, PB 10 mid, and PSL to mention a few of the rackets I've owned.
Every once in a while I pick up one of my flexible rackets and hit a few balls with it but quickly put it down because the recoil and vibration transferred to my arm causes pain. Then, after I hit a few balls with the V1, I grin with slight disbelief at how a racket can feel so amazing. Put this one on your demo list for sure.

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It would appear that the OP is ignoring the high praise of the V1 Classic even tho' several of us have mentioned it. Could it be that he can't get past the high RA spec and can't believe that it might be one of the most arm-friendliest racquets on the planet?

Fed - It was obviously not meant to be then with the F100. Thought I had it sewn up there on fboy but I was pipped at the post by a fellow UKRH and fellow TTer.

Systemic and my - No, I'm not ignoring the kudos for the V1. I've read up on it. Liked what I've read. And it's competing for prominence with the not small number of superb choices many here have pointed me in the direction of.

BTW, I wish I could demo more easily, but the UK is pretty useless re demoing, and therefore it's hard for me to check these frames in the manner that is the everyday practice in places like the States.

By tweener I mean something like my APD Original... 100" head-size, lightish, designed for power/spin/baseline play.

As well as a tad more control, feel, solidness and build quality, the important aspect for me is frame stiffness, RA. I know the way frames are categorized in this regard can be imprecise or up for debate whatever, but FWIW, 67 or 68 or so, that seems to be a stiff as I like a frame.

Reports on the APD 2013 having a 74 RA scares me... The Juice 100 appeals to me, but the 72 RA does not... There are certain frames I've played in the past (TF 315, MG Extreme Pro, PDR) that all seem to be about 70 RA and I just haven't been able to tolerate the harsh vibrations etc... The new Extreme 2.0 slightly intrigues me (though memories of that older Extreme are bad)... but The Yonex 100S is kind interesting me again.

Anyhow, there seems to be a fair number of tweenerish frames out there that would probably suit me - but a lot of them are like 70 or 70+ stiffness.

So... and the best tweenerish frame out there that won't shred your arm to pieces is...?

TIA

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Ross,

What is your static weight and swing weight preference on a tweener stick?

^^^ Murray, I'm used to 320g + and about 330 SW, but I could come down on these specs. I am prone to tinkering. I definitely don't want to go too hefty, though I have a horrible habbit of liking/exploring more players type frames with a tad more solidness (such as the one in your signature.) I'm also a sucker for a frame that swings sweetly (C10 Pro, being a good example).

^^^ Murray, I'm used to 320g + and about 330 SW, but I could come down on these specs. I am prone to tinkering. I definitely don't want to go too hefty, though I have a horrible habbit of liking/exploring more players type frames with a tad more solidness (such as the one in your signature.) I'm also a sucker for a frame that swings sweetly (C10 Pro, being a good example).

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Not to get too off topic but I do have two not so tweenerish suggestions. As Meaghan had suggested in the Holics thread the Volkl X10 has the sweet swinging feel of the C10 but with the (end the point now)power of a tweener type frame. Also the IG Prestige Pro the leather removed and a Babolat skin feel installed brings down the static weight to a more user friendly 11.9-12 ounce(with overgrip) and gets the balance closer to about 5 points hl. Still plenty solid and powerful as the balance helps make up for the loss of static weight.