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Topic: Most True Christians Are Sadists (Read 16638 times)

They see an injured friend suffer for a few weeks, they show their sympathy.

They know an atheist friend is going to suffer in hell for eternity, they say "well everybody is free to have their own believes" instead spending their whole life to convert us atheist. I mean what is significance of their 100 years on Earth if they are about to live in heaven for eternity?

They aren't sadists by their own definition, because they do try to convince atheists and believers from other religions to convert. You also have to remember that hell is an abstract concept to most people. They don't really think about it or what it really means for non-believers to go there after death.

That may be true to some extent but many of us experience substantial discomfort at the thought of anyone who makes a choice that results in spending their afterlife in an uncomfortable place. This is especially true when it involves a close family member or friend.

That may be true to some extent but many of us experience substantial discomfort at the thought of anyone who makes a choice that results in spending their afterlife in an uncomfortable place. This is especially true when it involves a close family member or friend.

Then I'm sure you should be quite disturbed when you know your god intentionally condemns people to this "hell" by making them supposedly unable to accept this "salvation". Romans 9, Matthew 13, Mark 4, the nonsense about original sin, etc. This seems to be sadism on a godly scale.

Your family and friends are intentionally damned by your god with no choice in the matter. And there is nothing you can do about it, but hope that you are getting it "right" yourself and avoiding this "hell".

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I wish I had answers that would explain why some of the things we interpret as cruel and unjust really aren’t that way. I, for one, am comfortable bending a humble knee to what I believe to be a far superior wisdom even when I do not understand it.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I wish I had answers that would explain why some of the things we interpret as cruel and unjust really aren’t that way. I, for one, am comfortable bending a humble knee to what I believe to be a far superior wisdom even when I do not understand it.

I know you are comfortable in your nonsense, BS. However, like so many theists, you are simply playing Pascal's Wager, hoping that the deity you believe in is real, is wise and is the one in control of your fate. I see nothing but arrogance, fear and greed in your actions. Also, ff you don't understand something, there is no way for you to know it's a wise act or not. You are just assuming that it is, that this version of god is what you've decided it is.

EDIT: I also wonder if you actually learned from your time in the ER last March, and if you'll still attempt to spread nonsense about creationism ignoring all of the evidence and dodging point after point. I guess time will tell.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 10:15:20 AM by velkyn »

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

I know you are comfortable in your nonsense, BS. However, like so many theists, you are simply playing Pascal's Wager, hoping that the deity you believe in is real, is wise and is the one in control of your fate. I see nothing but arrogance, fear and greed in your actions. Also, ff you don't understand something, there is no way for you to know it's a wise act or not. You are just assuming that it is, that this version of god is what you've decided it is.

EDIT: I also wonder if you actually learned from your time in the ER last March, and if you'll still attempt to spread nonsense about creationism ignoring all of the evidence and dodging point after point. I guess time will tell.

Yes, I know you feel I am a fearful, arrogant, greedy so-and-so. I don't know what any of that has to do with the topic but you said it so there it is.

For the record, I vehemently reject my being sentenced to the ER. To this day, I do not know 'why' I was even placed there because I was never afforded even one shred of evidence for whatever accusations were being made. Regardless, I fail to see how mentioning this provides any substance to the OP. In fact, it seems to be nothing more than an appeal to ridicule.

I know you are comfortable in your nonsense, BS. However, like so many theists, you are simply playing Pascal's Wager, hoping that the deity you believe in is real, is wise and is the one in control of your fate. I see nothing but arrogance, fear and greed in your actions. Also, ff you don't understand something, there is no way for you to know it's a wise act or not. You are just assuming that it is, that this version of god is what you've decided it is.

EDIT: I also wonder if you actually learned from your time in the ER last March, and if you'll still attempt to spread nonsense about creationism ignoring all of the evidence and dodging point after point. I guess time will tell.

Yes, I know you feel I am a fearful, arrogant, greedy so-and-so. I don't know what any of that has to do with the topic but you said it so there it is.

it demonstrates the sadistic qualities of Christianity. We have you, a Christian, who worships a being that is demonstrably sadistic, supposedly harming people for no fault of their own per its own holy book. Your reasoning is that it's wiser than you, a claim that has no evidence. This is the reasoning of a sycophant and a fellow sadist. You have no trouble with people being harmed for no reason and indeed you seem to enjoy the thought since if it does happen, it validates your nonsense. If there was no pointless eternal punishment, your beliefs would be wrong and the existence of your god in question. So, you have invented a god that somehow can use what a decent human would call evil, punishment of those who did nothing", for some mysterious and never revealed "good". A god that is no better than a crazed parent who would punish her son for something her daughter did.

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For the record, I vehemently reject my being sentenced to the ER. To this day, I do not know 'why' I was even placed there because I was never afforded even one shred of evidence for whatever accusations were being made. Regardless, I fail to see how mentioning this provides any substance to the OP. In fact, it seems to be nothing more than an appeal to ridicule.

Because you dodged, stonewalled, etc. You can read the whole thread yourself, including the evidence against you. Pretending it doesn't exist helps in no way, not in this written medium. You have attempted to present your myths as fact and when shown you are wrong, simply try to ignore the posts that counter your claims. This is a discussion forum, not a soap box.

and yes, the ER has been discontinued, Trav. It was a good hearted attempt to not just ban people who can't figure out what a discussion forum is.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Sadism is one of the strongest themes with Biblegod and his various religions. Besides the sadisms of the various OT punishments listed on other threads, the threat of hell from Xian mythology, you have to consider that the central image for Xianity is the cross, the instrument by which Jesus was tortured to death. And if you are Catholic, you get to see the graven image of Jesus on the torture device. The cross/crucifix is smack front and center inside the sanctuary and usually on top of the building.

Isn't it fascinating that the Official Symbol of Xianity is a device of torture?

Of course, torture is a major fetish for Xianity, what with the stories of the saints being tortured and various monks who flagellate themselves and pound nails in themselves.

This stuff logically lead to the tortures of the Inquisition and the Witchburnings, and all the horrors inflicted by Xian missionaries in the Americas.

Xians like to think that the religion is all lovey-dovey, but the lovey-dovey stuff is just a kind of veneer...the real meat and potatoes of Xianity is a symphony of horror and violence.

Tertullian (d. 220 AD): "How I shall admire, how I shall laugh, how exult to see the torments of the wicked. ... I shall then have a better chance of hearing the actors of tragedy call louder in their own distress; of seeing the actors more lively in the dissolving flame; of beholding the charioteer glowing in his fiery chariot; of seeing their wrestlers tossing on fiery waves instead of in their gymnasium. ... Faith grants us to enjoy them even now, by lively anticipation; but what shall the reality be of those things which eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man to conceive? They may well compensate, surely, the circus and both amphitheaters and all the spectacles the world can offer."

it demonstrates the sadistic qualities of Christianity. We have you, a Christian, who worships a being that is demonstrably sadistic, supposedly harming people for no fault of their own per its own holy book. Your reasoning is that it's wiser than you, a claim that has no evidence. This is the reasoning of a sycophant and a fellow sadist. You have no trouble with people being harmed for no reason and indeed you seem to enjoy the thought since if it does happen, it validates your nonsense. If there was no pointless eternal punishment, your beliefs would be wrong and the existence of your god in question. So, you have invented a god that somehow can use what a decent human would call evil, punishment of those who did nothing", for some mysterious and never revealed "good". A god that is no better than a crazed parent who would punish her son for something her daughter did.

With all due respect……………..

I don’t consider myself significant enough to matter in the first place. That is, if God has what you deem to be sadistic character traits, who am I to question it? Is it necessary for me to like, approve, and cherish everything He does in order to bow down to Him? Most of us have parents and siblings and friends who possess traits and habits that we dislike or do not agree with but that doesn’t prohibit us from continuing to interact with them and show love, understanding and compassion for. I simply trust that the Creator of our very existence is capable and fully empowered to do with us as He desires in order to fulfill His plan….and, yes, like it or not, ultimately we have no say in the matter.

By judging me and proclaiming God a tyrant,, you have elevated yourself to a position of superior intellect and wisdom…..yet you call me “arrogant” and a ‘sycophant?” You speak as though you possess the sum of all knowledge and that your views are indisputable and based on and spoken from an authority that you cannot even identify.

I chimed in merely to offer a theist point of view with regards to the OP.

I don’t consider myself significant enough to matter in the first place. That is, if God has what you deem to be sadistic character traits, who am I to question it? Is it necessary for me to like, approve, and cherish everything He does in order to bow down to Him? Most of us have parents and siblings and friends who possess traits and habits that we dislike or do not agree with but that doesn’t prohibit us from continuing to interact with them and show love, understanding and compassion for. I simply trust that the Creator of our very existence is capable and fully empowered to do with us as He desires in order to fulfill His plan….and, yes, like it or not, ultimately we have no say in the matter.

Oh, so Might Makes Right. Cool beans. Yeah, why not? He created you, and whatever mysterious plan requires infecting millions of Africans with AIDS and damning 98% of ALL Asians and East Indians who have ever lived... Must be a good one! Because he's so POWAHFULL!!

You're willing to bow down to something you can conceive as sadistic because you're a coward. Sorry. That's the truth. If I believed the s**t you did, I'd be WILLING to suffer for eternity, rather than compromise everything I know to be right and "bow" to some sort of cosmic tyrant.

The Yahweh character, if it was actually real, would be responsible for every stitch of human suffering in history. There is *NO* excuse for that. And it would be carrying a grudge over it's two defective prototypes for over what? 5,000 years according to fundies? Fucking CHILDREN aren't even that spiteful.

But you'll still bow. You'll ALWAYS bow. Yahweh is detailed slaughtering an entire cities worth of children, and you still bow. It could have had the Egyptians eat the corpses of their dead children, and you'd STILL think it was all groovy just as long as a god was making it happen.

Sorry chief. Personally? I think you're fucking pathetic.

And incidentally, yes, parents and family and friends sometimes have bad character traits. But you know what? NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER ALLEGEDLY EXTERMINATED EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH YA GOOBER!

By judging me and proclaiming God a tyrant,, you have elevated yourself to a position of superior intellect and wisdom…..yet you call me “arrogant” and a ‘sycophant?” You speak as though you possess the sum of all knowledge and that your views are indisputable and based on and spoken from an authority that you cannot even identify.

lol wut? Noooo... She's elevated herself to a position of a person watching you run around in circles terrified of some sort of super space spook with a pension for foreskins and human sacrifice. There's no "superior intellect and wisdom" neccesary, though Miss V DOES have you there as well.

I mean, whatever helps you sleep at night, right on. But don't try to make some sort of assumption like there's some kind of far-out thinking required to look at a guy who jacks off to torture porn and go "WOW. THAT guy is not right in the head."

Exact same thing.

As for "the sum of all knowledge"... You read what you want to read Cochise. To me, she speaks like a lucid human being, albeit maybe one who's a little more sick of your cult's bullshit than your average bear.

"An authority you can not even identify". Not sure what you're saying here. You mean reality? 'Cos that's, you know, pretty easy to identify, if you don't spend too much time staring at your belly button thinking about ghosts and bigfeets and crystal power and star signs and 2,000 year old ethereal Jewish priests with magical super powers from the 5th dimension.

I don’t consider myself significant enough to matter in the first place. That is, if God has what you deem to be sadistic character traits, who am I to question it? Is it necessary for me to like, approve, and cherish everything He does in order to bow down to Him? Most of us have parents and siblings and friends who possess traits and habits that we dislike or do not agree with but that doesn’t prohibit us from continuing to interact with them and show love, understanding and compassion for. I simply trust that the Creator of our very existence is capable and fully empowered to do with us as He desires in order to fulfill His plan….and, yes, like it or not, ultimately we have no say in the matter.

Who are you to question it? Golly, BS, are you just following orders? And like it or not, BS, we have no evidence that your “matter” even exists.

And no it’s not necessary at all for you approve of anything or anyone, even this character God of yours, or what they do. You don’t have to worship something that does things that you would hopefully find repugnant if a human did it. But you do and it seems for the sole reason that you are afraid of it. You’d dare not question it because that might put your magic afterlife in jeopardy and make you admit that you are wrong.

I’ll ask you a straightforward question: BS, do you approve of any or all of the following:

genocideKilling childrenshowing preference between childrenputting dangerous items where children can get to thempunishing one person for another’s crimes?

I do expect an answer.

And I have plenty of people who I will not respect and will not interact with if I find them to be despicable. I love those who deserve it. I do my best to understand people but that does not mean I have to approve or put up with their actions. I feel compassionate for those who suffer. *I* would not damn people to eternal torture for no fault of their own, or for finite “sins”. I do not get my jollies from harming people for any reason whatsoever. To get back to the topic, I have seen Christian after Christian claim that God intends to hurt people so the Christian can learn a lesson, that they will benefit from someone’s pain. I’d rather go to your precious “hell” myself than have another harmed for my “benefit”.

Your god has no evidence that it even exists, unlike other humans. Your god shows no love greater than mine, having conditions where it will give it. Your god shows no understanding or compassion, when it damns people for no fault of their own.

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By judging me and proclaiming God a tyrant,, you have elevated yourself to a position of superior intellect and wisdom…..yet you call me “arrogant” and a ‘sycophant?” You speak as though you possess the sum of all knowledge and that your views are indisputable and based on and spoken from an authority that you cannot even identify.

And from all evidence presented, I have that superior intellect and wisdom. I do not think that I have an invisible friend that approves of all I do and who is my proxy for fantasizing revenge on everyone who shows me that I am wrong. I am not the person who says “No matter what God does, it’s okay by me! Oh please it must be okay since I have to believe that God would only have *my* best interests at heart” And no, BS, I do not speak as if I possessed the sum of all knowledge. Nice strawman but it fails as usual. I speak as a human who can feel compassion and understanding. Not as some god that is no more than a powerful brat, with believers who hope and hope that their wager pays out.

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I chimed in merely to offer a theist point of view with regards to the OP.

Yep, and you are welcome to do that all you’d like. However, that theists point of view is always open to examination and exposure.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

I’ll ask you a straightforward question: BS, do you approve of any or all of the following:

genocideKilling childrenshowing preference between childrenputting dangerous items where children can get to thempunishing one person for another’s crimes?

I do expect an answer.

I do not find anything pleasant about any of those....nor would I condone or encourage any person to embrace them as "right."

We are teetering on a debate about moral 'rights' and 'wrongs' and that will take on a life all its own. Suffice it to say that while I do not understand all that God has done or is presently doing in this world, I accept my place in HIS creation and concede to His power and might. I am in no position to judge that which CREATED ME nor do I claim to know a better way to fulfill His plan. That, to me, is arrogance and absurdity of the highest order. You and others may question and/or find fault in certain interpretations you have made with respect to God's actions but you are incapable of determining what the outcome would have been had those specific events never occurred.

Majority of christians i've talked to don't really believe in hell. The thought of it makes them uncomfortable so they don't buy into it. christianity is going to evolve, and i'm thinking in a few decades, hell won't be a part of the theology for the mainstream believers. a few pockets of fundies might still buy into it, but hopefully they'll have died off when they refuse medical treatment and rely on faith healing instead.

after all, the bible can be quoted and interpreted in whatever way you want. speaking of which, what verses are there that explicitly even mention hell? I don't recall anything in the OT that mentioned it. It seemed to me that death was final, except in a few rare cases. Elijah and Enoch ascending for example. Jesus mentioned weeping and gnashing of teeth a coupla times, as well as the parable of the rich man and Lazarus where the rich man is tormented in Hades, but that's about all I can remember.

I accept my place in HIS creation and concede to His power and might. I am in no position to judge that which CREATED ME nor do I claim to know a better way to fulfill His plan. That, to me, is arrogance and absurdity of the highest order. You and others may question and/or find fault in certain interpretations you have made with respect to God's actions but you are incapable of determining what the outcome would have been had those specific events never occurred.

Why do you assume the creator has a good plan? What if his plan is to entertain himself by doing random crap like throwing down an earthquake here and an earthquake there?

I accept my place in HIS creation and concede to His power and might. I am in no position to judge that which CREATED ME nor do I claim to know a better way to fulfill His plan. That, to me, is arrogance and absurdity of the highest order. You and others may question and/or find fault in certain interpretations you have made with respect to God's actions but you are incapable of determining what the outcome would have been had those specific events never occurred.

Why do you assume the creator has a good plan? What if his plan is to entertain himself by doing random crap like throwing down an earthquake here and an earthquake there?

He already said. Doesn't matter. Dude fully admitted, as long as his imaginary friend is doing it, even if it's terrible and horrible and sadistic and inhumane and vile and evil, it's good.

Babies dying, mother's crying, missles flying... And it's all good, because it's all god. What a piece of shit human being.

Perfect for worshipping a piece of shit deity, really. Works out pretty well.

Jeremiah 29:11For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Oh yeah? Wow. That's nice. Sucks your imaginary friend has COMPLETELY FAILED TO PROSPER AND NOT HARM AND GIVE HOPE AND A FUTURE TO LIKE 90% OF ALL HUMANITY FOR THE PAST 2,000 YEARS. You unbelievably dim-witted weirdo.

Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but apparent character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I’ll ask you a straightforward question: BS, do you approve of any or all of the following:genocideKilling childrenshowing preference between childrenputting dangerous items where children can get to thempunishing one person for another’s crimes?I do expect an answer.

I do not find anything pleasant about any of those....nor would I condone or encourage any person to embrace them as "right."

Nice dodge. Here we go again. It’s not an answer, BS. Do you or do you not approve of any or all of them? Not "condone", not "embrace" not, "not find anything pleasant". Do you approve of them being done?

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We are teetering on a debate about moral 'rights' and 'wrongs' and that will take on a life all its own. Suffice it to say that while I do not understand all that God has done or is presently doing in this world, I accept my place in HIS creation and concede to His power and might. I am in no position to judge that which CREATED ME nor do I claim to know a better way to fulfill His plan. That, to me, is arrogance and absurdity of the highest order. You and others may question and/or find fault in certain interpretations you have made with respect to God's actions but you are incapable of determining what the outcome would have been had those specific events never occurred.

Not necessarily. You need to answer honestly. Then we can see if this become a morality debate. There is no evidence that this is any god’s creation, and definitely no evidence that says it’s “your” god’s. There is no evidence that this god created anything. You have no evidence of a plan or even an inkling of it, but you cower and bow and are okay with it *whatever* it is, as long as you can assign it to God and convince yourself that *anything* is okay as long as you can claim God wants it that way. Nice way to absolve yourself of any responsibility to anything except yourself and the god you have created in your image.

You’re right, I can never determine an outcome since it is impossible for anyone, including your prophets to determine the future. But I know I can help a child *right now* and not whine that staravation is somehow in God’s magical “plan”.

I am glad you came back, BS, you can show the newer members just how vile a Christian can be.

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Because He says He does:Jeremiah 29:11For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Oh my, God says he does. Actually, the author of Jeremiah has said he does. God has also said that Tyre was so destroyed that it simply can’t be found, which is rather funny for the quarter of a million people living there and the archeological digs showing the ancient parts in lovely detail. If a claim is wrong in one place, there’s little reason to assume another part is right, especially with no corroborating evidence.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 03:26:04 PM by velkyn »

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Jeremiah 29:11For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

That's not a very good reason. Con men say a lot of things, but what they say is not trustworthy. Again, how do you know this creator person has a good plan when he could just as easily be trolling the entire universe and having fun at our expense?

I mean sure, if he's an omnipotent super powerful being then there's nothing we can do about it. But liking it is another thing altogether.

I’ll ask you a straightforward question: BS, do you approve of any or all of the following:genocideKilling childrenshowing preference between childrenputting dangerous items where children can get to thempunishing one person for another’s crimes?I do expect an answer.

I do not find anything pleasant about any of those....nor would I condone or encourage any person to embrace them as "right."

Nice dodge. Here we go again. It’s not an answer, BS. Do you or do you not approve of any or all of them? Not "condone", not "embrace" not, "not find anything pleasant". Do you approve of them being done?

No, I do not approve of any of those......they are not the kind of acts any human should be commiting against the life or well being of another human being.

Jeremiah 29:11For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

That's not a very good reason. Con men say a lot of things, but what they say is not trustworthy. Again, how do you know this creator person has a good plan when he could just as easily be trolling the entire universe and having fun at our expense?

Perhaps you could indicate specifically what it is that you are looking for. I do not know what else would satisfy your request.

Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but apparent character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Oh yeah? Wow. That's nice. Sucks your imaginary friend has COMPLETELY FAILED TO PROSPER AND NOT HARM AND GIVE HOPE AND A FUTURE TO LIKE 90% OF ALL HUMANITY FOR THE PAST 2,000 YEARS.

I believe He’s talking to those who believe in Him and have placed their faith in Him.

First? Christians suffer, wallow in obscurity, do not prosper, and lack hope and a future in the *exact* same proportions as everybody else, statistically speaking. Same rates of depression, suicide, all that. No difference.

Second? Regarding your first part? Blargaddy blarg blahrgo. That's me speaking in tounges. Translation? I'll call you a coward and a weirdo and whatever else all day long, because A.)You're cowardly and weird in addition to other things, and B.)The fact that your widdle feewing get hurt easily has absolutely no baring on the validity of the points I've been making.

Further translation? Man the f**k up, cowboy.

If I said "You're wrong about X 'cause you're a piece of s**t", you might be on to something.

But I don't. I say "You're wrong about X because of Y, Z, and the number 2. Ya piece of s**t."

You gonna respond with something substantial now? Or do I get to listen to you whine some more while you tiptoe through the tulips and pretend to be completely oblivious to what I've been saying?

Don't try to take the high ground with me grasshopper. You're the one insinuating it's a-okay to murder little kids such just as long as it's approved by something significantly powerful.