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Just because a bike is heavier than previous doesn't necessarily mean it is not as good. Excessive weight usually reveals itself in poor or heavy handling, and Joey says the YZ450 nearly feels like a 250. Might require some back-to-back testing...

KD, I could have put a plastic tank and fenders on my '70 CL350 and got it down to 260 lbs. For a modern MX bike to weigh in excess of 260-270 lbs is ludicrous. And with all the talk of aluminum frames, see-through this and that, a Buell-like airbox, etc. it astounds me how weight isn't an issue anymore.

I hate to keep using the CR500 as a benchmark, but one fully loaded with all the fluids weighed 258 lbs. Stock. And any year CR500 from 1995 to 2007 could eat one of these new four strikers alive. I know, I did it on a regular basis.

Rick Sieman, Tripes and I all agreed that the so-called Earth moving new big YZ has a long way to go, before it can surpass a 20 year old open calss two stroke, in handling, power and weight. Marty's last factory RC500 in 1981 weighed 220 lbs. btw, so the technology is there.

And isn't that what it's all about? Designing/releasing an improved machine vs. forcing portly impossible to maintain stuff on the riding public, and calling it "fantastic"?

It's shrinking the sport. I million dirt bikes sold in 1973. Two hundred thousand sold in 2008, with ATVs out selling dirt bikes for the first time in history.

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A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.

KD, I could have put a plastic tank and fenders on my '70 CL350 and got it down to 260 lbs. For a modern MX bike to weigh in excess of 260-270 lbs is ludicrous. And with all the talk of aluminum frames, see-through this and that, a Buell-like airbox, etc. it astounds me how weight isn't an issue anymore.

I hate to keep using the CR500 as a benchmark, but one fully loaded with all the fluids weighed 258 lbs. Stock. And any year CR500 from 1995 to 2007 could eat one of these new four strikers alive. I know, I did it on a regular basis.

Rick Sieman, Tripes and I all agreed that the so-called Earth moving new big YZ has a long way to go, before it can surpass a 20 year old open calss two stroke, in handling, power and weight. Marty's last factory RC500 in 1981 weighed 220 lbs. btw, so the technology is there.

And isn't that what it's all about? Designing/releasing an improved machine vs. forcing portly impossible to maintain stuff on the riding public, and calling it "fantastic"?

It's shrinking the sport. I million dirt bikes sold in 1973. Two hundred thousand sold in 2008, with ATVs out selling dirt bikes for the first time in history.

And how would that CL350 hold up over a triple jump, assuming you could actually get it to weigh (full of fuel) what you claim, which I think is unlikely? Even Marty's RC500 would be blown apart by the punishment of modern MX tracks.

Do you honestly think "weight isn't an issue" for OEMs? That's silly. Otherwise they wouldn't add costly titanium, magnesium and aluminum bits that add considerably to the MSRP.

Yes, it is all about "designing/releasing an improved machine," and by all accounts the 2010 YZ is better than the '09. Throwing in how a two-stroker might compare is a red herring, as several factors have made them nearly non-existent.

The decrease in dirtbike sales from the early '70s till now has much more to do with demographics than what kind of bikes are currently on the market. A huge group of baby boomers and unrestricted riding area made the 1970s perfect for off-road sales. This has all changed, including restrictive emissions regs.

These conspiracy theories about OEMs somehow adding weight that isn't needed are tiresome. If you want a durable product, it can't be made flimsy. And if an OEM has to be competitive on weight (like sportbikes and MXers), it will cost more money. There is a direct relationship between lightness and money, which is why most bikes aren't as light as they possibly could be.