It is September. And as surely as the swallows are preparing to
depart Capistrano, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will be
arriving in New York. It is an annual ritual, with Netanyahu
explaining to a skeptical U.N. General Assembly why Israel is not
bound by the rules that most other nations observe. Last year the
theme was Palestinian statehood, meaning that the Palestinians
should not have any such thing until Israel says it’s okay.
This year it is all about Iran, with Netanyahu preparing
to “tell the nations of the world in a clear voice the truth
about the terror regime of Iran which represents the greatest threat
to world peace.”

Bibi will be in the U.S. for at least three days, and it is not certain
whether he will meet with either President Barack Obama or
Republican candidate Mitt Romney. I believe that he will likely
meet with both because he knows that he has them in a vulnerable
position that he will want to take advantage of to maximize what he
can get out of them. He already has a commitment from Romney to
move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, which would make the United States
the only nation to have its diplomatic mission in the disputed city
that Israel claims as its capital, but this time he will be shooting
for something much bigger. He wants nothing less than war with Iran,
and he expects the United States to provide him with a casus
belli, to set a date for the war to begin, and to actually do
the fighting for him.

If you read the Israeli press, it is possible to see two parallel
narratives developing supporting Netanyahu’s objectives. The
first is the issue of sanctions and the P5+1 negotiations taking
place over Iran’s nuclear program. The Israeli government and
the tame media located mostly in the United States are stating
over and over again that the sanctions are not working. The
evidence for this? That Iran has not agreed to halt its enrichment
of uranium. Everyone but Israel agrees that Iran, as a signatory of
the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that has its facilities
inspected by the IAEA, has a legal right to enrich uranium for
peaceful purposes. The Israeli current position is that any
ability to enrich uranium is potentially dangerous because it could
eventually produce enough material to produce a weapon. The same
objection is raised to Iran’s possession of any nuclear fuel,
even if it is enriched elsewhere, because the Israelis claim the
fuel can be further enriched if Iran chooses to do so. Having the
fuel and the technology to further enrich it and possibly weaponize
it is referred to as having a “breakout” capability.
Many countries, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey already
have that ability. In the case of Iran, the breakout would depend on
the country’s leadership making the political and economic
decision to construct a bomb, which both the Israeli intelligence
service Mossad and the CIA agree has not yet occurred.

The Israelis would like the United States to state that
sanctions have not worked and that the negotiations have failed.
Why? Because that implies that Iran has been intransigent, is at
fault, and must face the consequences. It also leaves only a
military solution on the table, and if Iran does not cave completely,
war will be the only plausible option for dealing with the Islamic
Republic. But while the Israeli position is clear, the U.S. position
on sanctions and negotiations is somewhat more ambiguous. The Obama
administration continues to assert that Iranian acquisition of a
nuclear weapon is the red line that cannot be crossed, but both
Congress and Mitt Romney have declared that the capability to
create a weapon is also prohibited. As Iran already has that
capability, the argument can be made that the line has already been
crossed. In practice, Obama is much closer to the congressional and
Republican position than he is to his own administration’s
policy. He has demonstrated that he is not interested in any
serious negotiation with Iran, having turned down several viable
proposals to enrich fuel outside of the country after first
encouraging the development of such an option.

With all of the above playing out in an election year, it is in
Israel’s interest to force the issue, to have the U.S. on board
for what it sees as a casus belli against its greatest enemy.
So Netanyahu will no doubt urge both President Obama and Mitt Romney
to be explicit that negotiations and sanctions have failed and that
Iran has already crossed an unacceptable line in its nuclear
program. If they are not fully cooperative, he could again suggest
that he might be inclined to attack Iran alone, one month before the
U.S. election, or, even worse from the point of view of the White
House, use AIPAC and friends in the U.S. media to support Mitt Romney.

The second narrative being floated relates to the mechanics and
timing for an airstrike against Iran. Netanyahu’s government
is arguing that the window of opportunity to attack Iran’s
nuclear program is closing. This derives from repeated allegations
that Iran is hardening its facilities against the expected attack
and is moving some of them deep underground, which may or may not be
the case. Israel claims that it is essential for it to attack now
or risk failure to destroy the targets. But it also is
simultaneously observing that the United States has a much bigger
window to successfully attack Iran as well as the ability to inflict
much more damage. Washington has heavy bombers and ordnance that
the Israelis do not have as well as the ability to sustain an attack
for a long time using naval air resources and cruise missiles. So
Netanyahu will
say something like “I want a date for the start of military action so
let’s make a deal … we don’t want to disrupt your
election but in return we want a guarantee that if Iran does not
abandon its nuclear program the United States will attack it next
year.”

If Obama and Romney, both seeing themselves as vulnerable on the
eve of an election, cave to the Israeli demands, it will be the
devil’s own bargain. The whole argument being made to go to
war is essentially bogus as well as illegal under international law
as Iran has not attacked anyone, has not threatened to do so, and
does not possess a nuclear weapon. In return for a series of
self-sustaining lies, Netanyahu would obtain the world’s only
superpower’s armed forces as his instrument of foreign policy
together with a timetable for action. He would be giving nothing in
return except a commitment to stay out of the U.S. election while the
decision of war or peace for the United States would essentially be
transferred to his government.

Just-war doctrine supports a preemptive
war if a nation is confronted with an imminent and existential
threat. One can debate whether Iran genuinely constitutes any real
threat against the U.S., but I think the consensus is that it does
not and it would be containable even if it were to make the
decision to obtain a weapon. The thinking of Israel and its
supporters in the U.S. is based on the premise that Iran is not a
rational actor, whereas the accumulated evidence derived from more
than 30 years of the existence of the Islamic Republic is that it
is, in fact, a cautious regime mostly focused on self-preservation, not on exporting its revolution or proselytizing. It
is Benjamin Netanyahu who is not the rational player in this game,
so much so that numerous Israeli citizens as well as retired
generals and intelligence chiefs are bravely challenging
his insistence on forcing a war to disarm Iran. It would not be the
first time that the maneuvers of a politician inspired by his own
vision of what must be will have brought about a catastrophe for his
own people. Unfortunately in this case, Netanyahu is also doing his
best to involve the United States in the disaster.

Bibi is known as a liar and demagogue even in the Occident countries.Obama ,Sarkozy,Merkel one after one expressed their suspicions about this sick man who ,fed by his father lessons on history became a "prophet".Maybe were many stories in history when leaders took their people in unnecessary wars but one against Iran is the most stupid and futile.Doesn't exist a reason,out of Bibi's lies of invented dangers for whole Planet and there is nothing to gain.So,here is not about a wrong calculation,here is about an irrational man with very high connections and who,although his bad reputation everywhere is still able to do it.In fact is this only one person totally dedicated to his dementia (Bolton,Mc Caine and their ilks are only added persons to Bibi wagon,so now is the pro war adepts less than were for Iraq war.Now is only Bibi,others don't matter) who can do it in what is called the free world.

Steve H.

It should be obvious to anyone not intoxicated by AIPAC Kool-aid that support for American involvement in the Israeli government's paranoid fantasies about Iran should be met with stun guns, sedatives, sleeveless jackets, and padded cells.

In short, the whole Iran nuke narrative is a neo-con wet dream. The fact that it would mean untold death and destruction to Iranians should not enter into the calculation if you're an advocate of Bibi or his boot-lickers in Congress.

My kingdom for a president with the cajones to tell Israel that they're on their own. If they want to attack Iran to halt a non-existent nuke, they and they alone will suffer the consequences. Sadly, Ron Paul will not be in the Oval Office.

Instead, we have corporate stooges Obomba and Romney as our "choices." If this isn't an indictment of the American electoral system, what is?

Outsider

It is so unbelievable that one irrational but determined man has the ability to start a totally senseless war, causing the death of possibly millions, yet no one will stand up to him and stop the madness. The same thing happened when no one was able to stop GWB's insane quest in Iraq. Is Bibi really prepared to start this war before our elections, possibly out of fear that Obama, if reelected, may then be in a position to turn on him? History marches on, yet we learn nothing.

W_ThePoster

If Netinyahu's personal character is huge in this, then it probably has a lot to do with his own role as a player in the theft of nuclear weapons technology from the US. He imagines it would be as easy for Hezbollah to get a nuke or three as it was for Israel, if only Iran had the fuel. It's a mad delusion he's uniquely prepared to suffer.

Mikw

Sooner or later the US will tire of Israel's truly over-the-top interference in American politics, and then Israel will lose the only friend it has left. I dare say say that any presidential candidate who had the courage to openly denounce this excessive interference would garner a lot of support, and that would put an end to the endless AIPAC/Israeli blackmail of our politicians. The sooner it happens, the better.

Outsider

A sad thing recently happened at the Dem convention. It is now officially in their party platform that Jerusalem is the true capitol of Israel. They took 3 voice votes before the presenter, in exasperation, said tht the 'ayes' have it. However, this measure was combined with the measure to put 'god' back in the platform (a no brainer). The Dems, I'm sure, deliberately combined the two ideas so that the Jerusalem thing would pass. Supposedly this was because Obama wanted it. Why would he do such a thing with so many Dems very leery about Israel in general and Bibi in particular?

If this happened Israel would forget about its planned attack because, like the U.S., it won't fight anyone who can really fight back and then everyone could go home!

And if Iran, North Korea and Pakistan and the Muslim Nations join together, perhaps the U.S. might give up its plan to control the world and return to its own borders and fix its own country which is in ruin.

How about it?

tom dee

I fear that someone has already sold Iran a few nukes. Iran clearly has the rocket to hit Israel and they have at least one ship capable of feeding smaller boat to take out coastal cities in Israel. Bibi is a fool living in the old world of superior Israel.

Orville H. Larson

NuttyYahoo is one crazy, degenerate Zionist sonofabitch. He ought to be committed.

The U.S. Government's subservience to Israel is appalling. When future historians are mulling over the ruins of the United States, they'll have plenty to think about. . . .

Kolya_Krassotkin

The role of Israel in America's history will be the same as Serbia's in the history of Russia before World War I. We all know how that ended.

Dr.Khan

The saddest thing will be if his X-mas wish are fulfilled and he takes away a bag full of gifts of wanted choices home.I am though sticking to Gen.Demsy statement this it comes untrue.and the USA falls for another and most probably a decissive futile mistake going into war with Iran for such free rider let's call it ISRAEL…..

Andrew P Nichols

Bibi and Dr Srangelove were room mates at college weren't they?

Kolya_Krassotkin

No. Dr. Strangelove refused to room with a lunatic.

JoaoAlfaiate

When is israel going to sign the NPT? You don't play the game, you don't get to make the rules!

zouppie

Obama and Romney should both promise Netanyahu whatever he wants. Then whoever is elected should stiff him. Why should this country be bound to keep a promise made to a shake down artist? I know it might cost millions in lost speaking fees. But what the hell? Lie to him. Treat him like an American citizen.

Harry

Exactly!

DOG

First of all a nation that does not sign the NPT should not even given a chance to speak. Secondly Obama and Mitt whould be complete fools for attacking Iran and possibley starting WWIII. Thirdly all this retoric is made to make the Zionist look like they do not have total control in the U.S of I but in reallity they do. A lot of window dressing for domestic consumption.

Madeline Albright

and where are the citizens of israel on this guy? this raving paranoid lunatic is going to literary cause the destruction of their little welfare state. the israelis don't have the ability to completely knock out iranian targets. they don't have the means unless america aids them. the first whispers of an attack and iran is going to let tel aviv and jerusalem have it with the chinese and russian missle systems they now have access to. blocking the straits of hormuz will be quick, easy and effectively dismantle the economies of israel and the west. you think china and russia are helping the iranians with weaponry and information behind the scenes? you're as deluded and insane as bibi. and just go ahead and nuke them and see how that works out for the entire world. israel thinks it's a pariah now, just go nuke a non-nuke state actor and murder millions of civilians. certainly an admirable endeavor justifying your existence.

moreover, the great idf couldn't even beat hezbollah guerillas in '06 and they think they can attack and defeat a nation with 70 million people and a standing army of 2-3 million??! israel is like a dog chasing a car, what's it going to do if it actually catches it??

Madeline Albright

and where are the citizens of israel on this guy? this raving paranoid lunatic is going to literary cause the destruction of their little welfare state. the israelis don't have the ability to completely knock out iranian targets. they don't have the means unless america aids them. the first whispers of an attack and iran is going to let tel aviv and jerusalem have it with the chinese and russian missle systems they now have access to. blocking the straits of hormuz will be quick, easy and effectively dismantle the economies of israel and the west. you think china and russia are helping the iranians with weaponry and information behind the scenes? you're as deluded and insane as bibi. and just go ahead and nuke them and see how that works out for the entire world. israel thinks it's a pariah now, just go nuke a non-nuke state actor and murder millions of civilians. certainly an admirable endeavor justifying your existence.

moreover, the great idf couldn't even beat hezbollah guerillas in '06 and they think they can attack and defeat a nation with 70 million people and a standing army of 2-3 million??! israel is like a dog chasing a car, what's it going to do if it actually catches it??

israel will not attack iran. That was never the plan. The fact is that Israel has always been afraid of Iran's modernisation and industrialisation…Every Israeli leader since the 60's has said that they will do everything in their power to prevent Iran from becoming a successful modern state, lest their plans to exterminate the palestinians and steal their land would be challenged, diplomatically and politically, by a powerful and influential Muslim state.

hence the Iran/Iraq war, which was planned by Israel and implemented by Saddam Hussein with the full backing of almost every single arab and western nation on earth…. That did the trick to crush Iran for 10 years.

Since the 90's however, Iran had begun a path to prosperity and september 11 proved the best occasion to start going after Iran with sanctions and pressure. hence the axis of evil and the lies over Irans nuclear program.

Israel got everything it wanted vis a vie iran. Iran will be crippled by these sanctions for as long as they remain in place and could bankrupt the country in about 5 years time.

My guess is that by that time Israel will have stolen all of jerusalem and the west bank and Iran will still be just months away from building a nuke and killing us all, requiring Israel to be ready to attack

baz

israel will not attack iran. That was never the plan. The fact is that Israel has always been afraid of Iran's modernisation and industrialisation…Every Israeli leader since the 60's has said that they will do everything in their power to prevent Iran from becoming a successful modern state, lest their plans to exterminate the palestinians and steal their land would be challenged, diplomatically and politically, by a powerful and influential Muslim state.

hence the Iran/Iraq war, which was planned by Israel and implemented by Saddam Hussein with the full backing of almost every single arab and western nation on earth…. That did the trick to crush Iran for 10 years.

Since the 90's however, Iran had begun a path to prosperity and september 11 proved the best occasion to start going after Iran with sanctions and pressure. hence the axis of evil and the lies over Irans nuclear program.

Israel got everything it wanted vis a vie iran. Iran will be crippled by these sanctions for as long as they remain in place and could bankrupt the country in about 5 years time.

My guess is that by that time Israel will have stolen all of jerusalem and the west bank and Iran will still be just months away from building a nuke and killing us all, requiring Israel to be ready to attack

Outsider

baz – I was with your analysis until your last sentence. Do you really think that Iran is going to 'kill us all' after they acquire a nuke? You destroy your own argument by this last statement. If you meant to say this, then Israel would be within their rights to bomb Iran before Iran starts 'killing us all'.

baz

haha

sarcasm dude..
sarcasm is the point of the last sentence.

Sam

If we have the possibility to choose , we allways should choose peace over war.

patriothere

I didn't come to the same conclusion as Giraldi. I concluded that the Pentagon is saying to the Iranians, "look, we have intelligence that the Israelis are going to start a regional war in the middle east, we just want to let you know that we had nothing to do with it and we wont attack you as long as you don't attack our assets in the gulf. That's what I got out of it.

patriothere

I didn't come to the same conclusion as Giraldi. I concluded that the Pentagon is saying to the Iranians, "look, we have intelligence that the Israelis are going to start a regional war in the middle east, we just want to let you know that we had nothing to do with it and we wont attack you as long as you don't attack our assets in the gulf. That's what I got out of it.

patriothere

I didn't come to the same conclusion as Giraldi. I concluded that the Pentagon is saying to the Iranians, "look, we have intelligence that the Israelis are going to start a regional war in the middle east, we just want to let you know that we had nothing to do with it and we wont attack you as long as you don't attack our assets in the gulf. That's what I got out of it.

patriothere

I didn't come to the same conclusion as Giraldi. I concluded that the Pentagon is saying to the Iranians, "look, we have intelligence that the Israelis are going to start a regional war in the middle east, we just want to let you know that we had nothing to do with it and we wont attack you as long as you don't attack our assets in the gulf. That's what I got out of it.

patriothere

Typical troll talking points. You are not here to have a serious discussion. You are not here to be open minded. You are stubborn and stuck in your ways and nobody is going to change the way you think or feel, so why don't you just go away and leave this site for people who want to discuss the issues?

I mean, people said the same thing about those red radical chinese. They were godless communists beyond reason. They weren't rational people. The people that said that were wrong. China now has nukes and we trade with them. Iran is much ado about nothing. They don't even have nukes and wont ever have them unless there is regime change. Which there wont be.

learn to live and let live. Iranians have a right to live peacefully on this planet.

Stabbing Israel in the back is part of Muslim teachings, or heritage. So, for Obama to do that is showing his muslim heritage. That is serious discussion and debate. You just didn't recognize it as a paid hack.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

Like the blood in Libya due to the muslim extremists Obama handed things to, or the Coptic deaths in Egypt now thanks to Obama.

There is blood on Obama's hands and Israel has nothing to do with it/

A. G. Phillbin

Part 1
==============================================================

Well, you must agee with me, then, that Libya was better off under Qaddhafi than under the present regime. Perhaps Egypt was better off under Mubarak, as well. However, in your zeal to attack your least favorite presidential candidate, you have forgotten to take US Empire interests into account. You would have a better argument if you dropped your silly partisan political notions, and thought in geopolitical terms.

A. G. Phillbin

Part 2 of reply to Roger
==========================================================

This whole "Arab Spring" thing, although it started spontaneously enough, has become part of what could be called the "Sunni Turn" for the US state dept. It has wound up by organizing, with the help of the Gulf States, an armed Sunni rebellion in Syria against the secularist, Shia (Alawite) dominated regime, and by repressing Shiites in the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia. It is no doubt aimed indirectly at Shiite-run Iran, by weakening their allies. One would think you Zionoids would admire the cleverness of the whole scheme, although it is more than a little dangerous. But it wasn't Obama's plan, and he wouldn't have authorized any of it had the Arab regimes been capable of ruling in the old way in Tunisia and Egypt.

WTE

What about the billion sof people christians have slaughtered throughout the years. Their blood is on your hands

Amry, you do realize muslim heritage started in the 8th century based on violence and back stabbing, as in how mohammed conquered mecca and medina, and later islam overturned the Byzantine Empire the last of the Roman Empire?

baz

huh?? are you making this up or is some other KKK member teaching you this cr@p

baz, I'm not sure how to answer that. I don't want to sound like you're dumb but do you at least know about how islam started? Do you know about the Byzantine empire?

You sound like someone who just hasn't had things taught correctly.
And in this time, with this world environment you may want to find out about things on your own so you aren't treated and used like a tool by the same people keeping you in the dark.

baz

Roger, ,

you must be working on a revision of history from tel-aviv where obviously the center of that industry is located….

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

Geez you go on and on and on… And seeing your bovine face and your silly 'serious mind looking for other serious minds to discuss serious ideas very seriously' its hard to hold it against you. You never chose to be this stupid. You have had to be born this way. Do you know how to tie your shoelace, chickenhead?

Why the personal attack instead of explaining point by point – if you're serious.

A. G. Phillbin

Obama has no "Muslim heritage," except in the addled minds of Pam Geller and her idiot followers. Obama's absent father was a muslim, and they never met until Obama Jr. was ten years old. His mother was never a Muslim, and never taught him to be one, nor any of her relatives, who helped raise him. Go back to that stupid Breitbart site, where those who believe in telling "noble lies" about one's chosen enemies is a sign of righteousness, and not dementia.

Perhaps there is some superstition, but can you show where allah has won over the people on the side of the Jewish belief in the Almighty?

Israel has face many attacks from superior forces and prevailed.

patriothere

Well the muslims in palestine are the true descendants for Abraham because they are Semites and most of the fake jews in israel were khazar converts of the 8th century. Also, They are muslims now. They converted, but never left the levant.

They may be, but they lived in Syria and Jordan until the 8th century, then invaded as muslim invaders. There were always Jews living in their ancestral homeland even up until trans Jordan expelled them from Jerusalem in 1948.

And Jews do not convert, they have the real Almighty. Why would they want allah?

patriothere

Jews convert. Ask the Khazars. The real descendants of abraham still live in the levant but they are muslims. These jewish converts came to palestine as refugees.

Catholics aren't raised that way. They are converted and confirmed. Hitler may have sucked off hte religious influence, but he was never a follower of Christ's teachings. He was not a Christian as Christians define themselves.

patriothere

Kids are being brainwashed to be catholics or jews or baptists or whatever. It's brainwashing and a form of child abuse.

WHy not admit that you were wrong and jews convert and christianity is a birth right.

patriothere

You are wrong. Catholics are bron. My friend was born into a catholic family and baptized into the faith. He did not choose. He had no choice. He was brainwahsed and forced into it. You are wrong and your religion is wrong. How do you like that. ANybody that responds to my post is a loser paid hack troll.

A. G. Phillbin

Israel has always had more money (US & the West) and technology backing them. God has nothing to do with it.

They are not working towards it either. Neither is japan. Neither are the other 124 signatories to the NPT. I have shown you links that prove that Iran is not working towards a nuke. You are just peddling lies.

Troling like saying Japan and Iran are equals because why? One has nutsso leadders and one is a world power with a stable economy?

Trolling is your dish.

patriothere

japan and Iran have the same nuclear program.

Jaime

Don't bother. Anybody knows that 20 or 27% is not enough to build a bomb. And even if they di enrich at bomb-making level, that doesn't mean, tehy are going to make it. Anyway, why are we discussing a non-issue. Why don't we discuss the real Israeli nuclear weapons and/or their delivery systrems? Vanunu? http://www.peaceheroes.com/MordecaiVanunu/mvanunu… What are you going to say? That he is a liar?

And you don't need to blame muslims or Iran for a dirty bomb going off, There are lots of Timothy mcveighs out there who would love to get their hands on a dirty bomb and take out a city. Domestic Terrorists exist.

They are not terrorists due to teh teachings of Christ. They are failures for not following the peaceful teachigns of Christ. When muslim militatants kill, it is due to teh teachings of islam. That difference is lost on you.

It's not old and still rings true. Nothing has changed. They are still within the guidelines of the IAEA the are still enriching to low levels they are still signatories to the NPT. Japan has the same sort of Nuclear capability as Iran , uh oh better go bomb them japanese!

You want this to go in circlers. And there is no clear reason why the military would be involved in a peaceful, civilian nuclear program unless it was for weapons or tactical military purposes.

Chew on that kabob why don't you?

Anti-war folks would say any nuclear devices useful for killing is bad.

patriothere

You assumed all that. There is no proof that there was anything there. You assumed that there was something there. For all you know, there was a kabob shop there. You don't know because you have no evidence to prove it. They are signatories to the NPT, inspected by the IAEA and all nuclear weapons are against the law in Iran.

So weighing all that evidence, including the NIE of every year since 2003, the CIA and the mossad say that they don't have nuclear weapons.

And you adon't either. You said you only accept proof, and now you have none, how does that work?

patriothere

Let me give you a link of a vacant lot and then lie and say that there used top be christian terrorists raping women there but the christian terrorists scrubbed the site clean removing all evidence. Did I prove what I said? No. Of course not.

Yes even. Look it up yourself if you don't beleive me. Islam and Christianity come from the same tree. That's why it's so funny to hear you say things like "the almighty" when anybody who knows the truth knows that they are the same thing.

So you don't have a text. You are relying on a site that is more evil than the Bible it lies about and you're still sticking with the talking points as flawed as they are.

You know it's the shiite muslims who believe in the fiery storm, not the any Secret Rapture folks.

patriothere

all the text is there. And rapture is what christians want. during the rapture there will be fiery death. And they will disappear. So they think. Even though that is physically impossible.

A. G. Phillbin

It makes no difference if you are "considered Muslim" by anyone except oneself. I'm sure Barack Obama does not walk about frightened of being stoned by Muslim relatives. you are one moronic, monominded, obsessed piece of crap.

What Islam may or may not believe about Obama has no influence on Obama, any more that it would on me. Since Obama doesn't see himself as Muslim, he doesn't act as one. Unless he is scared of them, which you have just admitted he isn't.

I did. Why do you think I'd use the expected answer so your handlers could pretend to know what's going on?

This is where you have lost the debate and are just trolling. Why even respond? Your comments have nothing to do with the story or it's issues, and nothing to even do with the concerns of the site, anti-war.

Clearly you say that, when it's not true.
You couldn't dispute the points I brought up. Are you willing to admit apartheid against the copts isn't in keeping with an anti-violence and anti-war position?

Do you think we should let muslim militants on planes with knife cutters?

Where do you draw that line?

A. G. Phillbin

I draw the line aty not being an obsessed, cowardly, frightened loon such as yourself. Osama bin Laden laughs in his grave at shmucks like you, quivering and quaking at the mention of the word "Islam," getting undressed to go on airplanes, and asking Big Daddy Government to watch everything, and caloling it "freedom." Your mentality is bin Laden's true victory.

You mean like your lunatic rantings about god caring for a group of people? Of your lunatic rantings and ravings about muslims and how evil they are and how they want to install a world wide potato farm? Rantings of a lunatic. You should be taken away by the men in white coats. Islamaphopes are all shabbas goy Israeli PR men.

Yet you can't follow a simple link to an analysis of Cicero by a commentator that agrees with me. You can't say why it's wrong.. you can't say if you even understand it enough to agree with parts of it.

You just level a personal attack and pretend that if you are loud enough it matters somehow.

How troll of you.
How long do you think this site will tolerate that kind of personal attack on their forums?

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

patriothere

Thanks for admitting to the world again that you are apid hack troll being paid to be here and that you hate christ. WHat a loser you are. YOu moron. You paid hack troll being paid to be here. I always said from the very beginning that you are a paid hack troll and I am not like you. I am not a paid hack like you. I'm here to chase you filth out.

A. G. Phillbin

And I'm sure that, as an empire, the Byzantines were innocent of violence and back stabbing.

They allowed islam, hired their fighters and when they were dependent on them they withdrew and attacked. And now, the blue and red mosque is a converted church that they stole from the church members. It's the same story all around the world, cordoba houses are mosques placed to celebrate victories over unbelievers.

A. G. Phillbin

And, of course, the Byzantines never did anything underhanded in their whole existence! Learn to read! I never said anything that your pompous history lesson even relates to.

You don't need to. But if you want to be credible it would help to know what was said.

And the world will not know peace as long as this is guiding such a large group of people.

"9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

And I would expect an anti-war site would understand that war is bad, even in the name of this religion's extremists.

patriothere

I am already more credible than you will ever be. He never said Islam must be destroyed. That is what you inferred.

You did say this. That says it all.
And it's not very 'anti-war' and in keeping with the pacifist nature of this site either.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

patriothere

That's you being a troll again. I said that I am not a paid hack troll like you. That is what I have always said. Anybody that knows how to read in context can undererstand and infer properly what I meant.

Perhaps you didn't, but a muslim paid hack using this profile did. We had a discussion about gravity, and was it a fact even before it was proven in the morning. WAs it a fact before it was understood, and he was very clear he only believed in gravity when it was proven.

That's not what they are saying. They are saying they shall suck the milk of nations. They should get their own damn milk. It's my milk, my country, my father land. My mother land. Get their own milk . I worked hard for this milk and there just gonna sit there and conspire to takle it from me? no way.

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

He had his life documented and there are no busts of Mohammed, he must not have existed then, by your own tests.

patriothere

He did not have his life documented. By whom. He is not mentioned anywhere. Only in the fake bible. ANd hte bible is fake and not the word of god and plagiearized from other semitic cultures preexisting the jews and christaisn by thousnads of years.

patriothere

You could say the same thing about the jews and the hyksos in egypt. You can say the same thing about Christians in rome. The christians were tolerated but hated, for good reason because they were subversive. At least muslims didn't destroy entire pagan cultures throughout the world. They didn't go up to the pagan cultures of northern europe and burn their relics, kill their women and decimate their culture. That's what the christians did to the germanic peoples of Europe. The nordic people.

Do you believe that knowing Byzantine history and having read Cicero make you an insightful person? history is useless if you don't know how to apply that knowledge. you might as well brag about all the operas you've attended. Unless it's directly related to what is being discussed, it's just pomposity.

I believe you have shown on ability or knowledge on what Cicero wrote about, nor how it applies to this conversation.

I dont' attend operas. I do watch events unfold around us and realize the long term planning of islam to conquer the world and destroy those who won't convert has been going on since the writing of surah 9.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

With all due respect, and again being as polite as possible, what do you consider debate?

patriothere

debates end. They have their end. They don't last for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. That is why you are a troll. Somebody eventually loses and concedes. In basketball, the game ends somebody loses. You need to learn that.

I agree that you lost your muslim temper and admitted to being a paid hack.

How sad you cant stick with it.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

patriothere

Thanks for submitting that you a paid hack paid hack. What a loser you are. I'll be in Nebraska this week.

A. G. Phillbin

Islam has no "long term planning." It has no central authority. As for Cicero, who the f*ck cares? Why don't you post your college degrees online, and be impressed with yourself somewhere else? No one is impressed here. A major shift occurs in US foreign policy, and all you can think of is to blame it on one guys Arabic sounding middle name. Incidentally, the beginnings of the "Sunni turn" go back to the GWBush administration. IT was called the "Awakening" in Iraq. That's when Petraeus paid all those Islamic militias to stop killing Americans.

You don't know my religion if you really think that. Did your handlers just give you something to post in a hurry?

The return of Christ is central to any Christian faith, in different settings and with different events building up to it. But Christ has promised to come again. It's very long term planning, for about 2,000 years now.

patriothere

Not bringing the rapture through fiery death. That is something the scary evangelicals have been promoting. Not so much the catholics.

Why?
You know why you're here. Paid to be here, paid to say things. Let's repeat what your boss's agenda is for you.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

patriothere

People that read that can read in context and know what I was saying. It's not my fault you can't.

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

patriothere

Yes I did. YOu just can't read in context. You choose to ignore what I say.

Then why can't you explain teh context of admitting you're paid hack and have it actually make sense? You're like an Israeli PR man and paid hack, but by saying you're like them you're not admitting it?

It makes no sense. Go have a large manteca fried taco shell why don't you?

patriothere

Tortillas will always be tortillas and never be what you claim them to be gringo.

How to say this so you won't misquote me later.
(sarcasm coming) I parked in a garage (sarcasm in progress) and I'm not a Ferrarri.
(sarcasm used)

Hitler may have been seen in a church, but that did not make him a Christian.
Facts show he never followed the teachings of Christ. Facts show he never valued the things Christ did.

You have some strange perverse drive to prove this against all facts.
And you brought that agenda here to a site dedicated to anti-war values. Why do you think it's appropriate?

WTE

So by using your own logic you are not a christian either. Yeah you may be seen in church but you violate the teachings your preach so loudly i.e., you admit to stealing, you lie, and you don't love your neighbor.
If your god was real you would have that awkward moment where you wake up in hell because you were a bigoted intolerant false christian who used religion as your excuse to become a spiteful hateful person

You don't know my life.
And I trust God enough to deal with my comments here.

patriothere

I know you don't have one. Why don't you try getting a life instead of wasting it here online in front of a computer day after day after day after day. At least other people take a break, go out with friends, etc. You are wasting your life. You know, you only get one.

I would advise anyone reading this to just ignore Roger as he is a true troll and the admin here does not want to ban him. He has a right to his opinion but IMO I do not believe he is honest. But who am I to pass judgment.

I say just ignore him and he will eventually go away, just like feeling very scratchy.

When Obama ignores our allies and allows people who want us dead to gain strength, (how many examples do you want?) then it's logical to figure out why.

A. G. Phillbin

Stop repeating yourself in the face of evidence to the contrary. Are you idiotic enough to believe that the "Sunni turn" in US policy is dictated by Obama's middle name, and other thin connections to Islam? The fact that you glom onto this passage and ignore the actual reasons (which I presented, and you haven't bothered to refute) for the policies you decry makes it very clear that you are not the "serious mind" that you are claiming to be. In addition, it amply demonstrates your dishonesty, and that you are more interested in dissing your least favorite candidate than having an intelligent discussion.

What about Obama's position Bahrain against the sunni and for the iranian backed workers who are not citizens there?
What about Obama's position for the iranian backed rebels in Yemen and against the government?
What about Obama's giving safe haven and oil revenues in Libya? Do you realize since those oil revenues have been funding it, muslim violence in Africa has grown? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

patriothere

What about the fact that Saudi Arabia sent tanks into bahrain and massacred a bunch of innocent people who were just protesting the dictatorship there?

And they have an army in Syria and control Hezbullah, that's a bit outside their borders.

Poor little lard breath.

Jaime

An army in Syria. What do you smoke? If the Iranians had an army in Syria, the Americans and their masters is Tel Aviv would have gone ballistic. You may want to be serious but your mind doesn't seem to obey you.

You're a liar. Obama does not support the rebels in Bahrain or Yemen. He backs the governments in both countries. Oh, wait, I know — the governments are muzzies too, so either way, it's caused by Obama's muzzie heritage!! Look, I've just learned Roger "logic!"

Libya was a NATO operation through and through. It's part of that "Sunni turn" that your brain is incapable of figuring out. And what exactly is "Muslim violence?" Is it violence in which a Muslim happens to be involved, or is there some larger requirement? If Muslims are on the receiving end, does that count also as "Muslim violence?"

Let me explain something to you, so that even your brain might get it:
Any country in the Middle East, except Israel, is overwhelmingly Muslim. Therefore, any government in those countries is going to be Muslim, as is any insurgent group. Therefore anyone that any US president supports in those countries will be Muslim. Therefore, your continued gibbering about how Obama is backing Muslims in Muslim countries is idiotic. Or do you plan on transplanting some Buddhists there?

A story that says Iran has nukes? No. A story that says nothing. Uh oh better go check out those japanese, they are working towards nuclear weapons. But, oh yeah genius, we wont know until the first bomb drops on a chinese city.

And Japan uses their responsibly and doesn't support terror in their region.

And it's just a matter of time until Iran finishes enough refined uranium with all those thousands of centrifuges.

patriothere

It's just a matter of time until japan has the refined uranium with all those thousands of centrifuges and drops the bomb ion a chinese village. Or turkey or argentina or the other 124 signatories to the NPT.

You pretend that what a figure head says is relevant. He said disappear. Not erase. At it is all irrelevant. You could say irans is working on nukes because their secretary of kabobs says toaster are bad for the environment and make just as much sense.

Iran is actively backing Syria, I gave links and sources.
Why don't you?

patriothere

So Is russia. But russia is the country that has the most influence because they can veto UN resolutions. I have given you links. Iran is not backing syria the same way saudi arabia backed Bahrain or the same way America is backing the rebels.

Sorry, but inconsequential mouthings about "human rights" and "dialogue" do not constitute support for a rebellion. And even if your premise were true that Obama backed these rebellions, it is idiotic to blame Obama's "Muslim heritage," when both sides are Muslim. It is also idiotic not to recognize that ALL of Obama's peripheral connections to Islam are to SUNNI Islam, not SHIA Islam. Given that, his alleged "Muslim heritage" would, if anything, back Sunnis against Shias (as in Iran). So why aren't you claiming he is violating his "Muslim heritage" instead?

And inconsequential mouthings about not supporting a rebellion are worth even less. And taking the pattern of his support for situations where the muslim brotherhood or similar militant muslim people stand to gain from the support, it backs my comment.

And he does have a muslim heritage, due to his father and step father.

Submission how? Opposite ways. They're just so different how you even use them in the same sentence is wrong.

patriothere

submission to god. SUbmission to an idealogy.

patriothere

When you start with a flawed premise (as you did in your comment) You are going to come out with a flawed conclusion.(Like you did with your comment just now) If obama is willing to "Change" the things that have gotten us into this mess, then I say good. Because we need to change a lot of the policies the neocons have put in place.

patriothere

Just because you say they are worse but cannot articulate what he did to make them worse or how he made them worse doesn't mean things are worse.

Anyone in the US knows about our unemployment and economic issues. Since Iran has it's news to the real world filtered you may now have known about them.

And we know that you are a paid hack lard breath, you said this, remember?

6 minutes ago @ Breitbart.com – Protests to greet Ahma… · 1 reply · 0 points
I'm like jesus, I'm gonna chase you money changers out of the temple and out of town and of course out of this forum. Me and ohsoquiet and a few other REAL AMERICANS who are being PAID to be here like you Israeli PR men. I'm here to chase you filth out.

A. G. Phillbin

If patriothere is a paid hack, does that make you a jealous unpaid hack? You're a lousy writer, and an even lousier thinker. Go back to that stupid site for people who will say anything, true or not.

And you have no proof that the site was cleansed for any other reason.

patriothere

The burden of proof is on you to prove that there was nything there. I could say there is a green alien watching your every move but it would be up to me to prove it.

I could say that I can fly, and then say to you you can't prove that I can't fly. I have to prove that I can fly. You have to prove that there was something there. All you have is an empty lot and then you infer that there must have been a nuclear program there. Well I say there was a kabob shop there. Prove that there wasn't a kabob shop.

patriothere

from tia juana? You know you don't have to respond. You can just concede.

"…that link says nothing on the subject. I attend the mosque where arguments are proven."

You can't prove it, so don't even try arguing it. Unless you admit you lie?

patriothere

You can't prove anything else. The onus is on you to prove what you say. That is my example and my proof. Prove what you say > I can say that I can fly but unless I have proof and prove it to you it is not fact and not true. You have no proof that Iran is working on nuclear weapons or has them. You are a liar and if you respond then you are a paid hack troll.

I have laid out very clearly that Iran is not working on nuclear weapons. They are not supporters of terrorists and They did not say erase Israel. And even if they did, that is not a reason for the US to go to war. It is all war propaganda. The only way we should to go war with Iran is if we are attacked. An attack on our soil by Iran. That's it. That hasn't happened.

donbacon

Having the fuel and the technology to further enrich it and possibly weaponize it is referred to as having a “breakout” capability. . .In the case of Iran, the breakout would depend on the country’s leadership making the political and economic decision to construct a bomb

It's more complex than that.

ISIS, an anti-Iran clique headed by David Albright, has "found on balance no justification to change its earlier breakout estimate of six months."
Of course Iran would have to expel the IAEA inspectors prior to any such breakout, then initiate the six month process, enriching uranium to weapons grade. Then, presuming it had the designs ready, it would have to construct a nuclear bomb (or warhead) and test it (important). Then and only then could Iran go ahead with the construction of bombs or warheads. It is unrealistic to believe that the US and others would be sitting blithely by while all this was going on. It would not be a quick process — it would take months or years.

stevieb

I could see Bibi using a U.S war with Iran to carry out his plans for the Palestinians – whatever those are… maybe he sees an Iranian(or Hezbollah) reaction to an Israeli annexation of Jerusalem or any of the OT as a problem that Israel can't manage on its' own(after watching Hebollah route the IDF in 2006)…they are in way over their head…whether the world can manage the fallout of these idiots is anybody's guess…

Alinsky Hero USA

Roger, I know you think that giant vagina on your face covers up your herpes, but it doesn't.

Remembers

Weren't you the guy who said this?

1 day ago @ Big Government – Occupy-Linked Hacker G… · 17 replies · -6 points
"The revolution has begun and your kind will be finding their heads in baskets soon. I hope you still have that smile on your face when that time comes."

So, why are you here at an anti-war site hoping to be taken seriously?