Who Won the Battle of Dazar'alor and Why Did the Alliance Attack?

The Battle of Dazar'alor raid has been fully cleared, with losses on both Horde and Alliance sides. Which side emerged at the victor? Does the outcome of the battle change the war at all? \r\rThe following article examines the biggest winners and losers across both factions, but if you're not interested in lore and just want information on how to kill the bosses, check out our Battle of Dazar'alor Boss Guides. This article is the third in a series analyzing the Battle of Dazar'alor--earlier we analyzed the Rastakhan Cinematic and the Siege of Dazar'alor Cinematic.\r\rSpoilers if you haven't cleared the raid.\r\r\r\rHorde and the Zandalari\rOn the Horde side, the most obvious loss is the death of Rastakhan, the king of the Zandalari. This caps off a period of defeat and instability for the Zandalari--Zul orchestrates a coup against Rastakhan, then Rezan dies in the process of reclaiming the empire, then the final seal to Uldir is blasted open by Mythrax. \r\rThe Zandalari also fall for the Alliance's military trick set up earlier in the 8.0 war campaign, and in spite of having naval superiority over the Alliance fleet, fall victim to Mekkatorque's explosives, as seen in the opening raid cinematic.\r\rAt the end of the battle, we're left with the King of the Zandalari slain and the fleet significantly weakened. The Horde originally expressed interest in working with the Zandalari, back at the start of Battle for Azeroth, to gain control of their powerful fleet.\r\rHowever...\r\rAs we covered in the Rastakhan Defeat Cinematic Analysis, Zandalar will likely be better off with Talanji in charge. She's more eager to form a partnership with the Horde and is quick to sense threats and injustices to her people. She is poised to be a stronger leader than Rastakhan, willing to try new things so the Zandalari Empire endures instead of remaining in the past.\r\rThe Zandalari also didn't lose any territory in this attack. The Alliance came in, killed Rastakhan, and left the city. By provoking an attack against the Zandalari, the Alliance have pushed the Zandalari closer to the Horde, setting up new allegiances.\r\rThe Alliance don't yet realize it, but Ashvane has escaped from prison with the help of the Horde. The act of freeing Ashvane undoes some of the progress Jaina made in her Boralus questline, in which Ashvane was defeated without any bloodshed, surrounded by the Kul Tiras fleet. Ashvane wants to overthrow the Proudmoore family, and her love for Azerite makes her a good partner for Sylvanas. As Ashvane met her defeat at the hands of the Kul Tiras fleet, she may be willing to also team up with Azshara, who stole the fleet in the first place and likely wants it back.\r\rAlliance and Kul Tiras\rThe largest advantage the Alliance gained from the attack was naval superiority. With the gain of the Kul Tiras fleet, and destruction of part of the Zandalari fleet, the Alliance now have a significant naval advantage over the Horde. The need for urgency in "A Good War" to attack Teldrassil was due to Sylvanas wanting to attack before the Alliance could build up their navy again.\r\rHowever, while the the Alliance won the battle, what was the cost? While the Alliance defeated Rastakhan, they did not gain any territory or make new allies. In the process of taking on their daring mission, they suffered great losses--while still lacking a plan to handle Sylvanas. To gain naval superiority, they could have just blown up the ships in the Alliance intro cinematic, without setting foot on the shore.\r\rThe first major loss for the Alliance is Grong, a gorilla who agreed to sacrifice his intelligence in order to gain extreme strength in the Alliance War Campaign. He's ultimately defeated by the Horde in the raid...and then raised by Bwonsamdi as a zombie-gorilla and forced to fight the Alliance. While Grong was a minor character added during the latest War Campaign, many players found his story tragic and touching.\r\rThe Alliance have a pretty easy go of it reaching King Rastakhan, but face unexpected difficulties retreating. It seems that the Horde forces may have returned to Zandalar a touch too early. It's hard to say what their motives were besides sowing chaos and hoping to weaken the Zandalari. They succeeded in destroying the navy, but left Zandalar with a stronger leader--Talanji.\r\rGoing back to the retreat, the combined Zandalari and Horde forces were strong enough to leave Mekkatorque in a semi-permanent coma and Jaina seriously wounded. While Mekkatorque played a smaller role in past expansions, now in Battle for Azeroth he's been indispensable for the Alliance with his ingenious contraptions that blew up the Zandalari navy, helped turn the tide of battle at Lordaeron, among other things. With his incapacitation, the Alliance has lost a large amount of engineering knowledge, with nobody poised to fill his leadership role.\r\rJaina throughout Battle for Azeroth has been untouchable, whether she's flying a ghost ship over Lordaeron or teleporting the Kul Tiras fleet to Boralus. However, there are some things that are too much for one mage to handle. We saw hints of this in the opening Dazar'alor cinematic, as Jaina impressively blocked some Zandalari ballistae attacks, but was unable to block every single one from damaging her ship. Now, at the end of the Battle of Dazar'alor, she puts up a strong fight but ultimately the combined forces of the Zandalari and Horde are too much for her, so she retreats.\r\rFighting the War, Not the Battle\rAs we look at the overall war, several questions still remain. What is the Alliance's plan when it comes to dealing with Sylvanas? Why are they surprised the Zandalari joined the Horde?\r\rWhat is their plan with Darkshore?\rCurrently the Night Elf leadership is not present for the Battle of Dazar'alor, presumably still fighting to reclaim Darkshore. However, Nathanos is present at the Battle of Dazar'alor and he was also present for the start of the Darkshore Warfront. The last time we saw Tyrande, she rejected Anduin's call for unity and left to take Darkshore without much Alliance help--by herself, if need be. Even if Anduin declares the Battle of Dazar'alor to be a victory, the Night Elves and Worgen want vengeance and closure for the atrocities of Teldrassil.\r\r\r\rWhat is their plan when it comes to dealing with Sylvanas?\rSylvanas doesn't play by the rules, as Anduin should have learned at Lordaeron. At the end of that battle, he hoped Sylvanas would declare defeat and agree to a negotiation. Instead, she lured all the Alliance leaders into a trap, blowing up the throne room and surrounding them with blight. \r\r\r\rAs Battle for Azeroth has continued, Sylvanas has demonstrated again and again she does not follow concepts of honor. In Patch 8.1, she specifically ordered Nathanos to raise Delaryn Summermoon, the elf whose words stung Sylvanas at Teldrassil. Following the events of Dazar'alor, on the 8.1.5. PTR we've seen her take things in more extreme directions as the stakes are raised after losing the battle. \r\rSylvanas does not take losing easily, and with her first major defeat of Battle for Azeroth, she'll likely stop at nothing to gain control. It's hard to imagine a situation in which Anduin gets the Horde to easily surrender.\r\rWhat is their plan towards healing old tensions?\rPatch 8.1.5 has the following datamined quote from Anduin:\rWe are so close to ending this conflict and forging a lasting peace. But if Sylvanas uncovers some new weapon that allows her to keep fighting...\r\rHowever, with so much civil unrest, it's not clear a formal surrender would amount to much, In addition to the Night Elves and Worgen upset over Darkshore, those loyal to Sylvanas would remain on the Horde side. Plus the Void Elves and Alleria have split from the Blood Elves of Silvermoon, the Nightborne have rejected the assistance of the Night Elves in favor of the Blood Elves, the Mag'har Orcs are inclined to hate the Draenei due to the events of AU Draenor...the list goes on.\r\rHow do the Zandalari fit into the Alliance's plan?\rThe Alliance, unaware of Bwonsamdi's deal with Talanji, may have figured that the Zandalari Empire was weakened due to the events of Patch 8.0 and therefore an easy target. Perhaps they would surrender to the Alliance after the loss of their navy, or if they fought bravely and lost their king, they'd be of little value to the Horde. However, they did not count on Talanji being a strong ruler, nor one backed by the loa of death, Bwonsamdi. Now in a world where the Alliance were to completely win the battle against the Horde, it's hard to picture the Zandalari accepting Alliance rule especially after the invasion of their city and death of their king. While their navy may have been lost, they are an ancient empire with influence among many other troll tribes and the loa.\r\rWhy Did We Fight in Dazar'alor\rThe main purpose of Dazar'alor may have been to destroy the Zandalari fleet, regaining Alliance superiority over the seas. In the Battle for Azeroth pre-patch, the Horde were able to attack Teldrassil so effectively precisely because the Alliance fleet was weakened after Legion, without ships to spare after sending most to investigate the fake threat in Silithus.\r\r\u201cThe Alliance\u2019s navy is still their weak point. Ours could catch theirs by surprise. Maybe our fleet could take the docks. But we wouldn\u2019t take the city.\u201d\r\rThe Horde\u2019s fleet had been battered, too. Even if they could overwhelm the Alliance fleet\u2014debatable at best\u2014they would still have the same problem as a land\u2010based approach: not enough ships to transport a suitable ground force to take and hold the city. Any landing assault in Stormwind would fail.\r\rAt the start of Battle for Azeroth, the Alliance pursued Kul Tiras while the Horde pursued the Zandalari both for the same reason--to gain naval resources. Now, the Zandalari fleet suffers a setback while the Kul Tiras fleet is loyal to the Alliance.\r\rHowever, the Zandalari fleet was significantly weakened before the Alliance forces set foot on Dazar'alor. Mekkatorque blew up many ships with his special Gnomish Engineering device in the opening cinematic:\r\r\rHere's where it gets interesting, as Anduin may have had a naive view of how the city attack would go. The following dialogue is taken from the Alliance discussion after the Jaina encounter:\r\r \u201cMy king, the attack on Zuldazar was a resounding success.\u201d\r\u201cThe Horde is losing on all fronts. The Alliance should achieve victory in a matter of weeks.\u201d\r\u201cYes, but at what cost? So many fallen....including Mekkatorque, whose life hangs by a thread. And I fear the death of Rastakhan will ignite a fire in the hearts of the Zandalari.\u201d \r\u201cHe was a casualty of war, Anduin. A king must be willing to sacrifice himself for his people without doubt or hesitation.\u201d\r\u201cI know that, Genn....as well as anyone. But our mission was to drive a wedge between the Zandalari and the Horde. Instead, we may have strengthened their bond.\u201d\r\u201cMore than half the Zandalari vessels were destroyed in the initial strike, and the Horde fleet is in disarray. Their remaining ships cannot hope to stand agains the Kul Tiran navy.\u201d\r\rAnduin seems pretty worried about the death of Rastakhan, even though that's something he should have planned for in advance. In retrospect it's perfectly logical that attacking a city would lead the ruler to defend it to the death, as well as inspiring his loyal subjects to fight harder. Plus as both the Horde and Zandalari lost to the Alliance, they now share a common bond of hating the Alliance and goal of wanting to defeat them even more. Yet Anduin is surprised the mission didn't go as intended. Perhaps he thought there would be more time for negotiations with Rastakhan.\r\rAfter we kill Conclave, Jaina says the following to the raiders: "We have struck a decisive blow against the Zandalari. Let us hope their king chooses to surrender and spare his people further harm." As Rastakhan offers no surrender, we keep clearing through the raid, attacking Rastakhan without pause.\r\rIt appears Anduin and Jaina have two different perspectives on the fight. Anduin wanted to drive a wedge between the Zandalari and the Horde, which could have been accomplished by simply destroying their navy. Jaina wanted surrender or death from Rastakhan. As Anduin is surprised by the death of Rastakhan, perhaps he did not realize this would escalate to confronting the king at all. It is hard to see how fighting through the entire city of Dazar'alor, after sinking the Zandalari fleet, would splinter the Zandalari and the Horde.\r\rSo Who Won?\rThe Zandalari are the obvious losers, with the loss of their king and navy. However, the Alliance may have won the battle but are no closer towards winning the war. The real winner here could be the Old Gods, forces that time and time again want us to be splintered.\r\rIn Chronicle Volume 3, we learn the Old Gods created numerous minor threats in Azeroth during Classic WoW to keep us splintered and bickering. We also learn that Cho'gall was on a mission to loosen the bonds of the Old Gods while escalating tensions between the Alliance and Horde:\r\rHe also needed to keep the Old God safe from the Alliance and the Horde. By defeating C\u2019Thun, the two factions had proved that they were unstoppable when they put aside their differences and united.\r\rCho\u2019gall would not allow them to do so again.\r\rBoth factions have come together to defeat larger-than-life threats, most recently the Burning Legion. We've put aside differences when facing the presence of three Old Gods--C'thun in Classic, Yogg in Wrath, and Y'Shaarj's essence in Mists. Now both factions are divided, unwilling to help and actively weakening each other. This would be a perfect time for the Old Gods to strike.\r\rPatch 8.1.5 brings us face to face with N'Zoth, through a new questline involving Xal'atath:\r\rXal'atath: Hear me, God of the Deep! I have brought you the Opener... the Bringer of Truths... the Torch That Lights the Way!\rXal'atath: Honor our bargain...free me to find my own fate!\rN'Zoth: Go... but the blade must remain... to serve my will.\r\r\r\rWhile Sylvanas is pleased to learn of the Blade of the Black Empire, Anduin, Talanji, and Brother Pike are worried about the threats of the Old Gods.\r\rBrother Pike:\rAll my life, I've witnessed the duality of the sea. It is both a source of life... and a force of destruction.\rI became a tidesage to wield the might of the depths for the good of Kul Tiras. To learn of the great darkness lurking beneath us all this time...\rThe Old God wants us fractured. Divided. I fear this war has given N'Zoth exactly what he wants.\r\rTalanji:\rAs a child, I listened to de elders tell tales of de Old Gods. I thought dey were little more than ghost stories meant to frighten us.\rBut now I see dat dey are all too real. An infection within de heart of Azeroth.\rWe defeated G'huun, but N'Zoth poses an even graver threat. In a world torn apart by war, I pray de loa will show us a way to stop him.\r\rAnduin:\r\rAnother Old God awakened... this does not bode well. Our world suffers much as it is. The wound in Silithus, the war...\r\rThe Old Gods are also making their move on MOTHER in 8.1.5, sending Faceless Ones to attack her. Azerite may also be ominously involved, based on datamined broadcast from MOTHER in 8.1.5, in which she states that the Heart of Azeroth means planetary demise is inevitable. We haven't been successful healing Azeroth through collecting tons of Azerite, instead using it to power our war machines and furthering strife.\r\rGreetings once again, Heart of Azeroth wielder.\rYour decontamination of Uldir is acknowledged and appreciated. Recommendation: continue efforts to resolve total planetary annihilation."\rPresence of a Speaker indicates a high level of threat to host planet Azeroth.\rThat's why I've come tae talk to ye. She's dyin', and everything we've tried doesn't seem to reverse it.\t\rAcknowledged. Heart of Azeroth detected. Activation of the Heart Protocol signifies that planetary demise is inevitable.\rWhat do ye mean, inevitable? No, I don't accept that. There has to be something we can do!\t\rIn order to research solutions to planetary demise, my relocation to the facility designated Chamber of Heart is recommended.\rRelocate ye? How do you propose we do that?\t\rTemporary waygate usage is advised. The necessary mechanics must be activated with the Heart of Azeroth.\rYe can do that?!\t\rWaygate consoles verified. Please proceed promptly.\r\rBoth sides have just been weakened in the Battle of Dazar'alor, following months of conflict since the end of Legion. The Old Gods want us divided, turning on each other so we're too weak to unite and fight together.

Commenti

Commento di Kurotowa

on 2019-01-26T21:17:20-06:00

Don't assume the entire Zandalari fleet is gone. In some ways the Alliance feint into Nazmir worked too well. The Zandalari sent everything they had available, including every ship that wasn't already in dock. All those ships were away from Dazar'alor and out of range of the bomb detonation signal.\r\rHow much of the fleet survived? We don't know. Cinematics are kind of vague. It could be a small remnant, it could be over half of the fleet, we won't know until a future quest informs us. But it's certain that at least some of the Zandalari's ships were able to survive.

Commento di Majora

on 2019-01-26T21:23:15-06:00

Absolute fisting of Rastakhan. Guy got hyped up for years as this mysterious and cool God-King of the Zandalari only to get offed to blatantly be replaced by his perfect and benevolent daughter who never was alluded to even exist until this expansion. I thought he was a really cool character whose flaws made him interesting, but oh well. Also really looking forward to Bwonsamdi getting killed because we can't have actual grey morality in this game.

Meanwhile the Alliance lost Mekkatorque (for the handful of patches it takes for the Junker Gnomes to join as an Allied Race anyways) and Jaina is on the warpath harder than ever with nobody to hold her back. Outstanding.

Call me when Sylvanas is gone, because the Horde is beyond %^&*ed.

Commento di NomadicAssassin

on 2019-01-26T21:26:23-06:00

The Zandalari didn't lose though?

Both the horde and Zandalari took heavy casualties, but the goal of the alliance from the hordes' view was to take the city, and they didn't. The horde and Zandalari pushed the alliance out after defeating various enemies. Also, the Zandalari Navy did send a portion of the fleet out, they're not completely gone. Even Anduin himself says that their goal of driving the horde and Zandalari apart failed.

Commento di Jetfyre

on 2019-01-26T21:30:11-06:00

Jesus, this got more intense than I thought. But alas, this is the cost of war. In the end, there are usually no victors. Only many lives lost for a small goal.

Commento di perculia

on 2019-01-26T21:30:50-06:00

The Zandalari didn't lose though?\r\rBoth the horde and Zandalari took heavy casualties, but the goal of the alliance from the hordes' view was to take the city, and they didn't. The horde and Zandalari pushed the alliance out after defeating various enemies. Also, the Zandalari Navy did send a portion of the fleet out, they're not completely gone. Even Anduin himself says that their goal of driving the horde and Zandalari apart failed.\r\rI think we are in agreement here. There has been a lot of talk that the Alliance crushed the Horde, and I think they did gain some ground while the Horde\/Zandalari DID have losses like Rastakhan...but I tried to show that the Alliance were not successful at their goals, Anduin and Jaina may have had different mindsets, they suffered heavy casualties, and don't really have a plan for Sylvanas.

Commento di etheldald

on 2019-01-26T21:31:00-06:00

Wait, wasn't genn the one who had the lines before the rasthakan encounter?\ris genn present? i haven't seen the entire raid yet.

Commento di Menardis

on 2019-01-26T21:32:43-06:00

An interesting read, I like this sort of speculation and detailed analysis and plot breakdown :) \r\rWhile the main attack on Daz was with the main effort to cripple their fleet and even possibly force a surrender or rout the Zandalari forces entirely if not claim the whole city and establish an impressive and well defensible and fortified foothold in Zandalar, I would wager that the Alliance were also seeking to force Sylvanas to somehow play her hand, or at least show some cards on the table, as one consistent plot thread is that we simply do not know what the end game that the Dark Lady is up to. Possibly even find and capture or kill Nathanos, who is holding a lot of strings for the Horde in her absence from the front lines. We even see as much in one of the cinematics where Jaina is clearly annoyed that he is still standing. It would have been an impressive double blow. \r\rAs for what comes next, the Horde have always been quick to find their second wind. I have no doubts in my mind that a counterattack in some form is imminent and will be swift as it is brutal, probably preying on the morale boost that the Alliance will have from holding a significant naval advantage once more. \r\rIt's very likely that we'll see the Kul Tiran fleet get decimated in a short lived poetic justice as N'zoth and Azshara take full advantage that leads us into 8.2.

Commento di Seleri

on 2019-01-26T21:34:12-06:00

It's almost like few things about the faction war makes sense and anything related to it is a weak point in WoW's story.

Commento di Mightylorddk

on 2019-01-26T21:35:22-06:00

Excellent writing perc. Hats off. My 5\/5 starts for you. Also I want to share my theories with you guys. I think Anduin too has fall victim to N'Zoth, he offered us a lie (as per Ilgynoth said he will). He says the alliance are very close to win this war and to ensure a long term peace. Which is kinda impossible when Sylvanas is holding Xal'atah (another victim of N'Zoth I believe). Also there wouldn't be any more peace between the horde and alliance after so much fights in recent time. \r\rAlso I believe the entire Zandalari fleet is not destroyed. Because most of them were sent to Nazmir, but they suffered a big loss out there. \r\rLets see.

Commento di perculia

on 2019-01-26T21:35:32-06:00

Don't assume the entire Zandalari fleet is gone. In some ways the Alliance feint into Nazmir worked too well. The Zandalari sent everything they had available, including every ship that wasn't already in dock. All those ships were away from Dazar'alor and out of range of the bomb detonation signal.

How much of the fleet survived? We don't know. Cinematics are kind of vague. It could be a small remnant, it could be over half of the fleet, we won't know until a future quest informs us. But it's certain that at least some of the Zandalari's ships were able to survive.

After reading this comment, I did soften the wording a little...but while I wanted to avoid discussing future\/PTR content in detail, I do want to point out that Talanji at one point in 8.1.5 says to Sylvanas that the "Zandalari navy (is) in ruins" so likely a significant amount were involved in the explosion. At least enough to make Talanji worry.

Commento di perculia

on 2019-01-26T21:55:40-06:00

Excellent writing perc. Hats off. My 5\/5 starts for you. Also I want to share my theories with you guys. I think Anduin too has fall victim to N'Zoth, he offered us a lie (as per Ilgynoth said he will). He says the alliance are very close to win this war and to ensure a long term peace. Which is kinda impossible when Sylvanas is holding Xal'atah (another victim of N'Zoth I believe). Also there wouldn't be any more peace between the horde and alliance after so much fights in recent time. \r\rAlso I believe the entire Zandalari fleet is not destroyed. Because most of them were sent to Nazmir, but they suffered a big loss out there. \r\rLets see.\r\rThanks! Glad you liked the article :D\r\rI think you're onto something about Anduin, perhaps N'Zoth's influence\/Azerite pushes Anduin to an extreme of optimism and peace, while it's pushed Sylvanas to an extreme of conflict and conquest.

Commento di Searinox

on 2019-01-26T22:08:33-06:00

It is a lose to Horde.... They got 90% of they war campain objectives undone and most of the Zanda fleet gone, a dead King, a CAPITAL city raided and what did the Ally lose? A Gnome that was forgotten for a long time and isnt lost\/dead, which by the way the things are being done he will come back with some stupid powerup and a new Allied race, so all in all they lose nothing..... All that is really fking stupid even the reason why they wanted to invade Dazaralor. "Lol, lets invade, destroy their proprety and kill their King..... They surelly see why we are the good guys and the Horde the baddies and TOTALLY will not deal with the Horde anymore and come to us. PERFECT PLAN!"

Commento di mysticalos

on 2019-01-26T22:18:47-06:00

Anduin is still too pacifist. he literally is extreme opposite of sylvanas. Alliance now has upper hand so he wants to sit back and let them grieve. Meanwhile sylvanas if she had upper hand would not hesitate to kick alliance while they are down. This is what separates them and why alliance will always fail in the end.

Commento di Maljinwo

on 2019-01-26T22:28:37-06:00

What's so hard about Sylvanas?\r\rOne dude with a shotgun was able to kill her.\rPretty sure Anduin could just blast her with Light\rOr Alleria fill her with Arrows.\r\rI don't get why everyone thinks this is difficult besides the script

Commento di tboss2447

on 2019-01-26T22:31:45-06:00

Alliance may have won the battle but are no closer towards winning the war\r\rYou sure? both factions state that the alliance is about to win the war after the raid

Commento di FTLNewsFeed

on 2019-01-26T22:48:05-06:00

The question we have to ask is: Does Blizzard know what the end-game is?\rThat is still an answer that we have no clue to. In the end I want this faction war to actually mean something, but Blizzard has been making overtures that they won't give us that satisfaction.

Commento di Caerule

on 2019-01-26T22:52:53-06:00

Horde needed the Zandalari fleet to be able to win this war. Alliance needed no such advantage. The main use of the Kul Tiran fleet is countering a potential Zandalari fleet. The datamined dialogue stated the Alliance is weeks away from victory after this.\r\rSylvanas remains confident and likely has a scheme to turn things around again. Maybe using Lady Wavecrest's connections to Azshara to sink the Alliance fleet or something.\r\rEither way, it would seem the Alliance for now, is definitely the victor of the siege, and in the lead.

Commento di LeagueofDevack

on 2019-01-26T23:25:15-06:00

What's so hard about Sylvanas?\r\rOne dude with a shotgun was able to kill her.\rPretty sure Anduin could just blast her with Light\rOr Alleria fill her with Arrows.\r\rI don't get why everyone thinks this is difficult besides the script\r\rYou mean aside from the fact that Godfrey got the drop on Sylvanas, and she'll be wary of a similar attack in the future? Not to mention her whole Banshee thing, and the fact she still has three Val'kyr remaining. Which means at best, she has one more rez remaining, and at worst, she has three left (it's never stated how powerful the last three Valkyr are.), the fact she has an undead army at her command, and can create more from the corpses of her opponents. And if Blizz's reveal is taken at face value, she'll have Xal'atath at some point in the near future, and the power that weapon will bring (As well as some of N'zoth's own power.), as well as the ever-present Blight.\r\rIt really will be a tough fight when we finally do confront Sylvanas. Ion was right about one thing. Garrosh was an amateur compared to her. In fact, out of the various characters in both the Horde and Alliance, there's very few "big" characters on that level. Honestly, only Malfurion, Jaina, Thalyssra, and Tyrande post Night Warrior come to mind. Alleria's Void powers would likely be overwhelmed by N'zoth, and Anduin's too green to be of any real use. Sure, he's powerful in his own right, but is too green and easily tricked (Seriously, look at Lordaeron and Dazar'alor).

Commento di decree72

on 2019-01-26T23:30:11-06:00

Makes sense if Mekkatorque now needs a powersuit\/bioimplants permanently to keep him alive\/functioning.

Commento di MetalTreadz

on 2019-01-26T23:48:11-06:00

Horde needed the Zandalari fleet to be able to win this war. Alliance needed no such advantage. The main use of the Kul Tiran fleet is countering a potential Zandalari fleet. The datamined dialogue stated the Alliance is weeks away from victory after this.\r\rSylvanas remains confident and likely has a scheme to turn things around again. Maybe using Lady Wavecrest's connections to Azshara to sink the Alliance fleet or something.\r\rEither way, it would seem the Alliance for now, is definitely the victor of the siege, and in the lead.\r\rThat's the annoying part about sylvanas. She's so obviously a Saturday-morning cartoon villain because no matter what happens, no matter how hard her faction gets smashed, she just laughs it off and reveals that she had a plan all along, just in case something went wrong. In our case, that will likely be either raising a whole lot more Alliance into forsaken, or getting Ashvane to bring her azerite empowered fleet (which should be dismantled and imprisoned after Siege of Boralus...) to put the Horde back on equal footing with the Alliance.\r\r.... Alternatively, the Alliance DOES maintain their naval supremacy, until 8.2 comes and N'zoth just obliterates the Kul'Tiran fleet, weakening the Alliance to the point that they don't have THE significant advantage that this entire war has been about.\r\rMy guess for how this goes? The Alliance regroups on Kul Tiras and starts making plans for that invasion of Orgrimmar, now that the Horde's navy can't stop them. If it's true that Nathanos is on Zandalar, it stands to reason that the Alliance is making good progress in Darkshore, allowing them to surround Orgrimmar from all possible ways now that they have the KT fleet. The Alliance fleet would then set sail for Kalimdor only to get destroyed by N'zoth\/Azshara at sea, and lose a massive ground force too. Then the Alliance and Horde do the classic "We must unite against the greater threat, but we'll deal with you later!" thing. \r\rAlliance vs. Horde expansions aren't fun because there is no way to resolve them that pleases both sides, since the ultimate way for that to happen is one side to be defeated by the other. Think back to MOP. In some ways, BFA is quite similar. The Horde instigated that war by nuking Theramore. The first patch was all about Alliance vs. Horde, with the "Neutral bad guy" Lei-shen showing up in 5.2. The x-pac ended with the Alliance and Horde rebels storming Orgrimmar, and the Alliance deciding NOT to kill the Horde leaders and occupy their cities, because there has to be a Horde for WoW to exist. The lore reason was along the lines of "We'll give you a chance to be honorable, but if you don't, we're going to end you. I mean it!".\r\rHere in BFA, the Horde once again instigated the war by burning Teldrassil. The first patch is a major Alliance vs. Horde patch, and Azshara and the old gods will show up in 8.2 as the "neutral bad guys". If the Alliance somehow maintains naval supremacy through all this, it will end with them deciding "If we destroy the Horde, we're no better than them", and back off from their moment of triumph once again.\r\rThat is why neither faction can be "defeated", because Alliance vs. Horde is the central point of Warcraft lore. That's why I think it's more likely they eventually do away with the faction boundaries, as opposed to defeating one permanently.