WTF Indeed:Step 5: Again, not all boy scouts are pedophiles and/or hate gays. The Boy Scouts of America is fine organization that is only as strong as it's weakest members.

Not all boy scouts hate gays, but their official policy is to discriminate against them. That doesn't make them a fine organization, that puts them in the company of organizations like the KKK, The Westboro Baptist Church, the Republican Party and other dregs of society.

I'd be interested in how many adults now did things in scouting that would be considered sexual predator/pedo like. My understanding was that this sort of went on fairly often. I knew the kids in scouting, they weren't that shy about some of the stuff they were doing on those campouts.

In about 400 of those cases - 80% - there is no record of Scouting officials reporting the allegations to police. In more than 100 of the cases, officials actively sought to conceal the alleged abuse or allowed the suspects to hide it, The Times found

Yet again, the organization with the biggest public anti-gay stance has one of the most enabling policies privately.

It has really become a marker -- the more a person or organization protests, the more they are in the closet. It should be widely known, because there's more organizations out there (Second Mile anyone?) that have yet to be independently audited for child rape or condoning it/covering it up.

In a 1987 case in Washington state, a district executive wrote to the national office complaining that his boss had refused to put a former scoutmaster on the blacklist, despite a molestation conviction, "because he has done so much for camp and is a nice guy."

Okay - will someone please explain to me how this happens? Is this some kind of male bonding "boys will be boys" backslapping thing, where any sex is OK, as long as you're a nice guy otherwise? Because I have to say - no matter how nice I thought a guy was, a proven molestation conviction would make me immediately change that opinion.

Generation_D:In about 400 of those cases - 80% - there is no record of Scouting officials reporting the allegations to police. In more than 100 of the cases, officials actively sought to conceal the alleged abuse or allowed the suspects to hide it, The Times found

Yet again, the organization with the biggest public anti-gay stance has one of the most enabling policies privately.

It has really become a marker -- the more a person or organization protests, the more they are in the closet. It should be widely known, because there's more organizations out there (Second Mile anyone?) that have yet to be independently audited for child rape or condoning it/covering it up.

Any rganization, preacher, or individual who talks about being gay alot, especially if they talk about how awful it is and take a strong anti-gay stance, is almost certainly gay or is harboring a big, gay secret. Bank on it.

Benevolent Misanthrope:In a 1987 case in Washington state, a district executive wrote to the national office complaining that his boss had refused to put a former scoutmaster on the blacklist, despite a molestation conviction, "because he has done so much for camp and is a nice guy."

Okay - will someone please explain to me how this happens? Is this some kind of male bonding "boys will be boys" backslapping thing, where any sex is OK, as long as you're a nice guy otherwise? Because I have to say - no matter how nice I thought a guy was, a proven molestation conviction would make me immediately change that opinion.

Its exactly how abuse happens. We perpetuate the stereotype that molesters and pedos are the evil stranger lurking in the bushes, when almost always its the friendly family member or friend in a position of power and authority over children.

How naive do you have to be? Has this happened to nobody in your family or friend network throughout your entire life?

This is the classic scenario. A trusted extended family member or a guy with authority over a group of boys takes things too far, but it gets hushed up or disbelieved because he is so respected. Which then lets it keep happening time and time again.

Often the victims have no strong role models in their immediate life, so they gravitate to the older scout master/pastor/youth leader/coach... and are looking for them to fill the void left by an absent father or a string of serial mom boyfriends, none of whom is a father. Often the boy has already grown up with the mother negatively referring to the father for years. So they seek to fill the void left otherwise. Along comes this seemingly perfect older male role model taking an interest in the boy, and unless the mom is really paying attention, that is a typical set up.

Generation_D:I'd be interested in how many adults now did things in scouting that would be considered sexual predator/pedo like. My understanding was that this sort of went on fairly often. I knew the kids in scouting, they weren't that shy about some of the stuff they were doing on those campouts.

When I was in Scouts, we had this really jumping, really awkward Scoutmaster who would take us camping. Being 11 and 12 year old boys, we talked about sex a LOT. He wouldn't let anyone talk about anything sexual related. He actually grabbed one by the shoulders one day and shook them for making a vagina joke.

When we went camping, my Grandfather would go with us, and not let us alone around him. There were a LOT of rumors when he left the troop a year down the road that he was doing inappropriate things with some of the boys.

Last week, I was talking to a friend who has an equestrian therapy business on the property of a boy scout camp. I was asking him why he doesn't go after the job of the camp caretaker too (older guy doing that probably retiring). He said that he didn't think he wanted working for the boy scouts on his resume.

I hadn't thought of that, but I'd probably feel the same way. Which is a pretty sad statement, really.

I don't necessarily blame the Scouts (or schools or churches) for an unknown molester getting into their ranks. People like that do their best to place themselves in careers and positions where they will have dominion over children (teachers, scoutmasters, clergy, boyfriend of a single mother).

Keeping things a secret and allowing them to go unreported/unpunished is where it gets evil. I don't care if they say they repented or how much they did for camp or how nice a guy they are. If they did this, it needs to be reported and they need to go to jail.

ArkAngel:I don't necessarily blame the Scouts (or schools or churches) for an unknown molester getting into their ranks. People like that do their best to place themselves in careers and positions where they will have dominion over children (teachers, scoutmasters, clergy, boyfriend of a single mother).

Keeping things a secret and allowing them to go unreported/unpunished is where it gets evil. I don't care if they say they repented or how much they did for camp or how nice a guy they are. If they did this, it needs to be reported and they need to go to jail.

There was a Japanese teacher at one of my first assignments accused of pedastry. It took 3 months and a drunken substitute teacher outside at karaoke for me to learn that. He just disappeared and no one remarked on it. Like a mob hit. I wonder if they told the parents as he was accused of doing what he did in the next town over.

ArkAngel:I don't necessarily blame the Scouts (or schools or churches) for an unknown molester getting into their ranks. People like that do their best to place themselves in careers and positions where they will have dominion over children (teachers, scoutmasters, clergy, boyfriend of a single mother).

Keeping things a secret and allowing them to go unreported/unpunished is where it gets evil. I don't care if they say they repented or how much they did for camp or how nice a guy they are. If they did this, it needs to be reported and they need to go to jail.

I don't want to sound all accusatory, but when you have an organization that promotes very young boys spending time in remote areas with grown men, it's going to attract more than a few very disingenuous grown men. Yanno?

Eddie Adams from Torrance:WTF Indeed: Step 5: Again, not all boy scouts are pedophiles and/or hate gays. The Boy Scouts of America is fine organization that is only as strong as it's weakest members.

Not all boy scouts hate gays, but their official policy is to discriminate against them. That doesn't make them a fine organization, that puts them in the company of organizations like the KKK, The Westboro Baptist Church, the Republican Party and other dregs of society.