'Saving Bobbi' live chat with Grant Snyder

Welcome to our live chat on "Saving Bobbi," a four-part series on one Minnesota teen's descent into the dark world of sex trafficking. The series began Sunday and will conclude Wednesday. Today's live chat topic is how law enforcement is battling child sex trafficking. We will be talking with Sgt. Grant Snyder of the Minneapolis Police Department, a major character in the Saving Bobbi series, and Star Tribune reporter Pam Louwagie, who spent several months reporting and writing the series. Thank you for being here, Sgt. Snyder and Pam.

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:02:40 PM

A quick word about the series: “Saving Bobbi” is about Bobbi Larson, 19, who as a teenager became the victim of sex traffickers. She and her family sought to tell her story to try to help other girls avoid the trauma she endured. It contains mature content.

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:03:20 PM

Let's get started with the chat.

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:03:42 PM

Sgt Snyder, how long have you been an officer with Minneapolis, and is this your first agency you have worked for?

by jim11/18/2013 6:04:13 PM

I've been with the Minneapolis Police Department over 17 years.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:05:23 PM

How big of a societal problem is sex trafficking? Why do the estimated numbers vary so much?

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:06:29 PM

Sex trafficking is what many consider to be among the greatest human rights issues of our time. At the center of this problem is our obligations to protect children, as well as adults from exploitation by others. With regard to the social scope of the problem, we have found that lives are impacted across ethnic, racial and socioeconomic lines. This problem affects everyone.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:08:45 PM

I looked long and hard at a lot of studies to try to find statistics that seemed reliable. Experts agree that there really aren’t comprehensive, reliable statistics on this stuff. So much of it is hidden. That’s why we included the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council’s report showing that estimates on the number of underage trafficking victims ranges from 1,400 to 2.4 million. Those numbers get at the absurdity of the statistics surrounding this issue.

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 6:09:48 PM

What is the percentage of males vs females that you have found in this "business" as victims?

by jim11/18/2013 6:10:19 PM

The vast majority of the cases we have investigated involve girls. We know that boys are being victimized as well, but for several reasons they are a much more difficult population to identify and serve. In the past year we have investigated two cases involving trafficking of boys, compared to over 50 cases involving girls.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:12:41 PM

My question is for the reporter. I’m wondering if your opinions on prostitution changed from reporting this story. I’ve always had more of a laissez faire attitude – given the stereotyped, high-priced call girl/escort who’s able to make more money doing that than a typical 9 to 5 job. In today’s story, hearing the cop’s opinion evolve after seeing it up close and personal, I was curious if you also changed your mind. And for the cop, does the well-paid call girl exist or is that just in the movies?

by Karen11/18/2013 6:13:44 PM

I interviewed many experts, advocates and sex trafficking victims for this story and I definitely came away with a better understanding of how coercive it is, even when it might not look coercive at first glance. Sgt. Snyder’s change was fascinating to me in that way. I have interviewed quite a few prostitutes and exotic dancers in my career, and I have seen a lot of corresponding self-esteem issues. I can’t say it’s true for everyone selling sex, but it does seem pretty clear to me that most would rather not be doing what they’re doing.

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 6:14:43 PM

There does exist a strong stratification in trafficking. Some victims are exploited for very little money, while others are sold for much more. In reality, movies tend to exaggerate the commercial aspect of sexual exploitation, and glamorize the money and experiences of the women.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:18:26 PM

From the series:

How is child sex trafficking different from prostitution?

In the past, juveniles who were sold for sex were arrested and prosecuted as prostitutes. But in recent years, federal and some state laws have changed to define children as victims rather than criminals.

Federal law now defines child sex trafficking as the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision or obtaining of a person for a commercial sex act, if the person is under 18 years of age, regardless of whether any form of coercion is involved.

Minnesota law also defines 18 as the upper age limit of what is considered child sex trafficking and regards those being trafficked as victims of a crime rather than perpetrators.

Source: U.S. Department of Justice

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:18:41 PM

Sgt. Snyder, do you find that some women are involved in prostitution of their own free will?

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:21:09 PM

After years of doing this work, and talking with women who have been exploited in prostitution, I have never found one that believed is was a good means to make money. They have shared stories about shame, abuse, and isolation. I have never encountered anyone who was not encumbered or victimized by coercive circumstances. Bottom line: This is not a decision made of free will.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:24:03 PM

Will you be covering the costs to tax payers of trafficking in your articles? While we should all be outraged at the exploited lives and lost potential of victims, sometimes the way to draw attention to a problem is in the pocket book.

Good question. It's not one we're covering in this series. It's complicated by the fact that so many of these victims have multiple issues requiring long-term intervention for health and mental health issues. There's also the whole cost of police and courts. It becomes very complicated to estimate that cost.

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 6:25:24 PM

The crime we are talking about is centered around both sex and money. When these perpatrators are discovered what punishment is out there? Because some of these perpatrators are "caught" for the first time, what happens. What incentive is there to NOT do this crime?

by jim11/18/2013 6:26:31 PM

With regard to the traffickers, both federal and state law allows for extenstive prison time, and our local county attorneys are quite aggressive in going after the perpetrators. For patrons, if the victim is a juvenile, it is a felony under Minnesota State Statute 609.324.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:28:09 PM

Decision making isnt a hallmark of adolescents - particularly those that have experienced trauma. They can make a lot of bad decisions during teen years. Teens want to be independent and make free will decisions...but they aren't always smart decisions.

She wants to make something good out of this. From the beginning, she told Sgt. Snyder that she doesn't want other girls to go through what she went through. She wants people in the community to be aware of this.

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 6:30:27 PM

Sgt. Snyder: I was horrified back in 2000 when I read an article that 13 year old girls had been arrested for prostitution at a hotel near me. How could they be arrested, I wondered, when it was obvious they were victims? So I think you are awesome, and I'm glad society is beginning to recognize this for what it is. My question to you is how can I, as a member of the general public, do something about this problem? Is there anything I, as a neighbor, should be aware of to spot this kind of thing, were it to occur in my neighborhood, so I can alert the authorities? And can I be assured now that in Minnesota, at least, if I ever came across an exploited kid, they will be helped—not tossed in jail? Finally, what about the kids who were arrested before they were seen as victims? Can anything be done to go back and help them? And to the reporter, thank you for this series. Such a relief to see this, after my shock over the article I read 13 years ago.

by Amy11/18/2013 6:34:51 PM

Well, first of all, the community has the greatest ability to interrupt sex trafficking. The appropriate response is to learn, recognize and report. In the aftermath of an incident, all to often people report that they suspected, or recognized that there was a problem, but did not report. As law enforcement, we rely heavily on the public eye to learn about victims.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:35:43 PM

Here's some helpful information on what to do if you suspect child sex trafficking

Call local or state law enforcement.

Contact the local FBI office at 763-569-8000 or e-mail Minneapolis@ic.fbi.gov.

Call the National Human Trafficking Resource Center at 1-888-373-7888, text BeFree (233733) or file a report online at the Polaris Project site.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) offers the Operation Predator App for reporting suspected child predators, including sex traffickers. It can be downloaded for free on the iTunes App Store

Source: U.S. Department of Justice

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:36:02 PM

Oh yes, and I wanted to send my good wishes to Bobbi for her continued healing. I hope her future brings many good things. Thank you for the courage to tell your story. I know how hard it is to do that.

by Amy11/18/2013 6:36:16 PM

First, I applaud Bobbi and her family for having the courage to come forward with their story. I know that one of the key elements to keeping victims from returning to the environment is to have support programs in place to help them recover from their experience and move forward. However, you have to get them out of the environment first. How much does law enforcement use the tactic that Sgt. Snyder did, pretending to be a john to rescue the victims (which is the first step in removing them from that environment)? Are there any obstacles to doing more of this?

by Judy11/18/2013 6:39:02 PM

Law enforcement agencies all across this country are coming up with unique strategies for locating and rescusing victims. Most of our time should be spent in identification and rescue, and much of our attention is finding creative and effective ways to do that.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:40:41 PM

I also wish bright futures to Bobbi.. No one should have to live a day like that.

by jim11/18/2013 6:40:55 PM

How has the internet and social media affected sex trafficking and exploitation?

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:43:22 PM

The internet has led to an expansion of underage sexual exploitation. It has given perpetrators the assumption of anonymity and contibuted a marketing method for the ongoing exploitation of young victims.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:47:54 PM

We hope Bobbi is getting support to continue her healing journey from abandonment and trauma. Every kid has strengths and talents. Bobbi has incredible courage. This will take her far in life.

by The Bridge for Youth11/18/2013 6:48:20 PM

Here's the video from the series:

A cop and a sex-trafficking victim form an unlikely bond: As Minneapolis Police Sgt. Grant Snyder worked to extricate Bobbi Larson from her reliance on drugs and her vulnerability to sex traffickers, she grew to trust him. He saw hope in her that, with help, she could move on with her life.

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:49:18 PM

Any ideas about combating the "glamorous" image prostitution has in movies and music? I'm not sure the same audience for those is reading the reality in these articles. Amazing work by both of you by the way.

by League of Women Voters Mpls11/18/2013 6:50:19 PM

You'll see later in the series that part of helping girls recover is showing them how the glamorous image they had been sold was a lie and they have been used. That's something for people to think about when they see glamorous images or prostitution in movies.

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 6:51:03 PM

So is there a key factor that drives sex trafficking?

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:53:02 PM

At the very basis of this problem is money and demand. Sex trafficking exists because people are willing to pay for sex, and traffickers benefit financially from it. But for the demand for victims, sex trafficking wouldn't exist.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:53:44 PM

Warning signs that a trafficker may have targeted a child

The teen becomes involved with an older or adult boyfriend.

Unexplained absences from school.

Drop in academic performance.

Sudden appearance of expensive clothes or other items.

Isolation from friends and family.

Drug addiction, including changes in behavior or mood swings.

Source: U.S. Department of Justice

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:55:10 PM

What role to men play in the prevention of sex trafficking?

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 6:55:47 PM

We have about 5 more minutes with Sgt. Snyder and Pam Louwagie. If you have any more questions, get them in now. Thank you.

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 6:56:09 PM

Understand that sex trafficking is a problem with men. Men are the unique patrons of the victims. Where no demand exists, no supply is needed. Men can do a great deal to influence and create postive cultural and social discussions about victimization and commercial sex. As with many problems, it begins with a willingness to stand on the behalf of the victims.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 6:57:45 PM

Sgt Snyder, you are doing great work. Hopefully, law enforcement will put the necessary resources towards trafficking despite budget issues. it is too important of an issue to be on the chopping block when budget decisions are made.

by aschmidt636211/18/2013 6:58:20 PM

Thank you very much. It is a priority with the Minneapolis Police Department to expand our ability to serve the population of juvenile victims. Today we are welcoming several new investigators to our Crimes Against Children Unit as part of the Department's ongoing committment to these juvenile victims.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 7:01:08 PM

Here's the Q&A on how "Saving Bobbi" came to be and how it was reported, written and presented.

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 7:01:17 PM

Sgt. Snyder or Pam, do you have any parting thoughts or comments you'd like to make before wrapping up?

by Chris Havens11/18/2013 7:02:36 PM

We are grateful to Bobbi and her parents for being so open with us in sharing their story.

by Pam Louwagie11/18/2013 7:03:27 PM

This is a problem that needs advocates. We are tremendously proud of the work being done by all of our partners, both inside and outside law enforcement in this State. Stories of courage like Bobbi's give us all the strength and hope to continue.

by Grant Snyder11/18/2013 7:03:53 PM

Thank you for participating in this live chat today.

Part 3 of 'Saving Bobbi' will be published in the Tuesday Star Tribune. If you don't want to wait, the entire series can be purchased in e-book format at startribune.com/ebooks. Proceeds will go to MN Girls Are Not For Sale, a campaign of the Women’s Foundation of Minnesota to end child sex trafficking.Coming Tuesday, we will have another noon live chat with Ramsey County Attorney John Choi to address prosecution in sex trafficking.