Yes, I do like that metal Eastman. I've passed up a few deals on 8x10 cameras recently as I just can't see buying another one when there's other things that I actually "need". I'm searching for an affordable Nikkor SW 120/8 at the moment. The cost hurts....
Unfortunately, there seems to always be "deeper pockets" out there

8x10 holders are fairly commong in the 25 to 35 a piece range for the old wood ones. I bought a half dozen from Brooklyn Camera while getting something else a while ago and they're all good users. I'd have to say 'good luck' if you're trying to get a better deal...

Speaking of cost, I've looked at a few Jobo systems too. They do look nice. But they ain't cheap... If I could get a good deal on one that could handle 8x10, I'd be very interested. But for now it'l probably be just a couple more drums for what I've got. At 8 or 9 bucks a piece, ya can't go wrong (well, unless they leak)... I'll keep an eye out for a 3000 to see what it's like (and if I can afford it). Thanks for that info Nick!

_________________----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------

I think I saw a 3000 tank for 8x10 on Ebay today. With a starting price of around $300. That's used-((

For the 2521 one thing to look for is the six reel extension model. I had the same problem that was solved when the local Jobo dealer decided to dump a bunch of stuff at cost. The two put together are great for B&W on the motor. Well assuming you can handle using at least 1.25litres of solution.

Thanks, I'll have to go take a look to see what it looks like.
I can handle 1.25litres no problem. I started mixing half gallons when I started using the 4x5 tanks. I just can't handle such a cost though There would have to be something _very_ special about the Jobo system for me to pay out that kind of money...

_________________----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------

Sorry the 1.25 litre would be the min solution for the 2500 8 reel tank. I think the 3000 series tanks are pretty frugal on chemicals. The big 8 reel tank is also if you fill it up but if you're only using it for two sheets of 4x5 it won't feel that way.

Well, 1/2 gallon is 1.85 litres, so still that's no problem. And I could easily mix gallons if needed. The problem would be cost. I looked more into the Jobo system. The drum alone goes for over 200 used, then it needs a 300 dollar processor to go with it. If I found a reasonable complete system with the drum I wanted, then maybe. But I think it would be a while before I spent that much on a processor. My drum & roller base work so well that I'd be happy with a couple more 9 dollar drums and a tent to load them with. And for half the cost of a Jobo system, I could get a new Harrison tent! (ummm, which I still can't afford )...

_________________----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------

that's exactly why I spent $200 for a manual dip and dunk nitrogen set up. It uses the SS hangers but instead of rubber tanks I have a Ledall water jacket and 4 3 gallon SS tanks. I had to build a control board to route the water through the filters etc. but it was cheaper than a Jobo.

I can do 12 sheets of 8x10, 24 sheets of 5x7 or 48 sheets of 4x5 in one swell foop. 2x3 sheet film gets put into a Yankee tank basket and run through. Same with 3x4. The only format I can't handle right now is 6x8

Of course right after I got it up and running a local studio dump their ATL3 with 4x5 and 8x10 and a slew of reel and tubes over for about $800 ahh well.

I use gas burst too. I highly recommend it for those still having a wet darkroom. I was lucky to find an Arkay rack to fit Kodak's small tanks, so I can process as few as 2-5 4x5s or, with the large tanks, up to 48 sheets at one time. I process single 4x5 sheets in a tiny tube made to develop Cibachrome prints.

What used to cost so much is literally being given away. I saw on a newsgroup a set of 1 gal. tanks in a SS water bath tank available only for the shipping cost of $20-40.

Wow. I know I sometimes(?) feel stupid for some of the questions I ask (yeah, I've looked back at them ), but all this does really make me feel like a backyard (or would 'bathroom' be more fitting?) photographer...
I seriously do envy the equipment some of you guys have and/or get to use. But not enough to go and buy it! If I'm very lucky and there comes a time when I have to do a dozen 8x10's at a time, then I'll look seriously at the fancy developing equipment. But thank goodness photography is a perfect hobby that does support us bathroom guys. And I rarely see anyone look down their nose at the use of a 9 dollar tank if they're using a 2500 dollar auto processor. Says something about the folks involved! And it gives the rest of us something to wish for....Enough of that stuff...

By the way. I've seen "nitogen tanks" up for auction but never looked into them because of the cost. What the heck is the nitrogen for?

_________________----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------

I think many of the people using LF equipment like turning junk into gold. How many of the people here would love to find an old beaten up camera and put it back to work? It's more about what the camera can do then anything else.

Nitrogen is introduced through use of a piping system in the bottom of the tank that has lots of little holes in it. A gas timer gives little 5 sec. bursts of gas, which after being released through those holes rise through the film in the form of millions of beautiful [but unseen because its dark] bubbles. Those bubbles serve as the agitation of the film by moving the dev. [or other chemical] around. The luxury is sitting there while this is done thoroughly, completely, and "with no hands".

The small pipe system, known as a plenum, can be built into a tank or, more commonly, into the rack into which you insert the film hangers and move the film from solution to solution.

The gas is cheap, and now the rest of the stuff is becoming cheap too. Oh, the system works for roll film too. Hope that makes sense.

My first thought was "why use nitrogen"? and that it sounds like an aerator in a fish tank. My mind went on to using a small compressor, maybe even stuff from a fish tank, or CO2 cartridges...and on..and on... Came right back to chemical interactions. I would guess that bubbling air or CO2 or most other gasses would not be too beneficial to the chemicals. Nitrogen is probably inert with photography chemicals and the best choice.
It sounds like a nice system as long as you can find a source for the gas. My only question would be: Wouldn't the nitrogen then cool down the liquids enough to require the use of a heater to maintain temperature?

_________________----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------

I have not encountered any noticable cooling induced by the gas. Yes, it is inert so it doesn't oxidize solutions the way compressed air would. Good deduction on your part. I knew I'd leave out something ...

The key to making it work for you is finding the right tanks. For 8x10, there are narrow little 1 gal. tanks just perfect. Believe me, the normal 3 1/2 Gal. tanks use a LOT of chemistry. That was why I was so happy to find the right rack for my 1/2 gal. tanks [for 4x5].

I'm surprised it doesn't cool? Expanding gas and all that.
I do know there are welding gas suppliers in my area. And I'll be visiting them as soon as I locate the aluminum add-on to my mig welder.
The only problems seem to be that it's more geared to volume and you'd need a darkroom as I suppose they're open top tanks? I will be darkroom-less for quite a while. Just no room in the house and my garage won't be finished for a couple of years... For the volume I do, the drum/roller works okay for 8x10 and the daylight tanks work fine for 4x5. I will be searching for 1 gallon tanks for 8x10 though. Already have hangers. The bigger tanks use way too much liquid for me. I can wash in a tray, but the tray really doesn't fit into my bathroom sink So I have to do a better wash arrangement, especially if I manage to do more than one neg at a time. It would be nice if I could fix in a tank too so I can see it going. And "time" seems to be the big key. I must have used most of it up when I was young because there sure doesn't seem to be much left now

_________________----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------