Pilots flying the F-22 Raptor reported illness from oxygen deprivation incidents 10 times as often as pilots of other fighter jets, according to Air Force data.

The F-22 has been the focus of an Air Force inquiry because of the oxygen problems.

The new data, released by Sen. Mark Warner, D-Virginia, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, shows Raptor pilots have reported 26.43 hypoxia and hypoxia-like incidents per 100,000 flight hours. While that represents a mere fraction of total flight hours, it is far higher than incidents from other Air Force aircraft, including the A-10, the F-15E and the F-16.

Kinzinger, a military pilot himself, said that while low, the numbers are extremely concerning. Kinzinger and Warner have been vocal in pressing the Air Force to investigate the concerns after two pilots came forward about the problem on CBS's "60 Minutes."The problem puts pilots in "a vulnerable situation, because potentially, you have a pilot who at the beginning stages of hypoxia-like symptoms, really can't, you know, think things through, has a hard time making those judgment calls," Kinzinger told CNN's Soledad O'Brien in an interview on the CNN morning show "Starting Point."

"You really do lose your cognitive ability," he said. "So - well, you do this to recognize your symptoms. Everybody has different symptoms. For me, actually, I start finding everything pretty funny. But then you have a hard time."

The Air Force continues to investigate the hypoxia problem. Investigators are looking at whether a compression vest worn as part of the flight suit contributes to the problem, CNN's Mike Mount reported Wednesday. Investigators are focusing on a part of the suit called the Combat Edge, which can hamper breathing and cause oxygen loss when combined with a physiological condition that collapses air sacs in the lungs, according to details of the report that were shared with CNN Security Clearance.

Combat Edge is a vest-like garment that expands and contracts on a pilot's torso to fight the effects of severe G-forces experienced while flying the F-22. What is being looked at is whether the garment may restrict the pilots' breathing beyond what is intended, according to sources familiar with the report.

"In many cases, those vests were actually failing in high-G scenarios," Kinzinger said Friday. "So, at this point, it seems like the most likely place to pursue."

But the problem has proven vexing, especially since there have been incidents of mechanics on the ground having the same symptoms, and some pilots also experiencing hypoxia at lower altitudes.

"The Air Force has explained that these maintainers, you know, had symptoms, but they actually weren't related," Kinzinger said. "I think it's very important that we take a deep look in that, because if they are related, then the high pressure, the upper vest suit, isn't the issue. And I think the other big issue, too, is maintainers and pilots have to feel comfortable to come forward and talk about their concerns."

The fleet was grounded in May 2011 so the service could check the hypoxia reports, but the order was lifted in September under a "return to fly" plan, with equipment modifications and new rules including daily inspections of the life-support systems.

Investigators initially pointed to an onboard oxygen-generating system that feeds pilots' air supply as a possible cause.

Lockheed Martin, the maker of the jet, was given a $19 million contract to install a backup oxygen system in the F-22 last week.

Last month, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta mandated that all F-22 flights "remain within the proximity of potential landing locations" to ensure the ability to recover and land should a pilot run into "unanticipated physiological conditions."

soundoff(235 Responses)

North Europe has a Plan B for the EURO, don't spoil it!Most counties aruond the north sea never joined the Euro.Why not found the old sucsecfull Hanse tradae block again. Togethe with Netherlands, UK , Norway GER & Scandinavia etc we rere far more stable and successful then the Renaissance guys. Yes, we loose 30% on the EURO exit, but we know what we got:Real Friends & future of Northern Europe.Probably Profit withe a strong new currency. Take your loss. Europe was never one.No one united EUrope last thousand years and that is it's strength. Greece is for holidays and you should pay there with holiday fake drachma. Greek people will have a bright future as one big holiday resort with holiday currency. How they manage, the market will judge. Please be what you are and want to be.It is reasonable th ask for a moment where to say STOP. At this moment no one tells. That is alone reason enough to leave the Euro. North Europe has a Plan B, don't spoil it! If you do not have a serious plan, you cannot negotiate. The north has a plan B and it is even better off. This is the end of the EU. North Knows!

You're truly a just right webmaster. The site loading pace is incredible. It sort of feels that you're doing any distinctive trick. Moreover, The contents are masterwork. you've performed a fantastic process in this subject!

Oxygen is supplied by the Onboard Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS) which is a very mature technology, having been in use for around 30 years or more. The only real unknown here is the selectivity of the oxygen partial pressure (PPO2) sensors in the presence of possibly new and untested contaminants in the incoming air stream. Clearly, something must be causing the PPO2 sensor to read high thereby causing it throttle back the true PPO2 delivered to the pilot for some undetermined time until it eventually clears. A contaminant could also cause the PPO2 sensors to read low causing the OBOGS to increase the true delivered PPO2 to dangerously high levels. This will be a very difficult problem to track down because it will be nearly impossible to duplicate on the ground or in a laboratory setting. The most straightforward approach would be to instrument the OBOGS with data recording of all the operating parameters, especially the PPO2 sensor readings, and let a test plot take the aircraft through its paces attempting to duplicate the maneuvers of known incidents of malfunction.

Wouldn't they just be up to no good even if the planes worked? ... http://iranianfacebook.com/2012/05/30/us-government-admits-that-uses-words-like-democracy-to-undermine-the-free-will-of-sovereign-nations/

Defense contracts don't work like that. From first hand experience I can tell you the US Navy paid a civilian shipyard to provide "security forces" to a boat. These "security forces" were required by the ship yard to supplement ship's force security which was not allowed to stand down due to our own requirements. The "security forces" turned out to be rent-a-cops who would spend there "watch" wandering around the boat attempting to get cell service or sleeping in the ship yard provided chairs. As the ship's duty officer I would wake these guys up whenever I passed by and they had dozed off and one day one told me to "call his supervisor" prior to leaning back against his jacket he was using as a pillow. I called his boss who told me I was "not to touch or disturb his people". This turned into a huge fiasco that ended with the shipyard announcing that the contract was terminated at the fault of the ship because we didn't abide by the rules in the contract (by waking up their security guards).

Every passenger airliner uses the hot air generated by the engines, compresses it, sends it through the air conditioning system to cool it off and then releases it to the cabin so the passengers and crew can breathe. This is a tried and true practice in the industry for many decades. Fighter aircraft are not exactly the same, but it does seem that they should be able to figure this out. Maybe it is not the oxygen system at all????

That's how it's done on commercial airliners to pressure the cabins. Military aircraft carry pure oxygen in liquid form in green bottles about the size of a BBQ propane bottle, and let it exaporate to a gas and feed it into the pilot's oxygen system.

No-No, that's not how it's done on this plane. High pressure air is applied to a special membrane that more readily allows oxygen molecules to penetrate than it does nitrogen molecules. The percentage of molecules that penetrate determines the O2 content of the resulting outgoing O2/N2 mix, and it will be higher than the O2 content of the air that was applied to the membrane. A needle valve allows bypass mixture to flow away from the membrane carrying away the excess N2 for discharge. Basically the membrane acts to enrich the O2 content of normal air. Honeywell provides this device and my bet is that's where the problem lies.

June 15, 2012 at 7:57 pm |

Tim W.

Thats the way it used to be done but sounds like the F22 is different.....LOX bottles worked great !!!!!!!!!!!!

June 15, 2012 at 8:23 pm |

No

Thanks for the correction and info, Tom. I'll bet you you're right.

June 15, 2012 at 10:30 pm |

Cheese Wonton

LOX bottles were scary dangerous. Ever seen one blow? Pretty much every air force that uses LOX bottles wants a differnt system. OBOGS is such a system. It's used in the most recent F/A-18's, Eurofighter Typhoons and some examples of the C-130J in foreign service.

According to a podcast I listened to a few months back, the US spends the same amount on defense as the next highest countries combined. Why? The countries that were stated were England, France, China, Russia and three others that I can't remember. I want a strong defense, but come on.

if that was true, the soviet union would be ruling the world right now

June 15, 2012 at 6:44 pm |

Oscar Pitchfork

I still fail to understand why it's so impossible for them to install a sampler/monitor inline with the O2 system ahead of the pilots mask so they can FIND OUT what's affecting the pilot. Man this can't be that complicated to engineer.

We are Americans. Using Common Sense is not fostered in our school systems. This is only one of many many results.
If we cut more money out of our education budgets and push it towards more military to make up for the lack of even more superior fighters....

June 15, 2012 at 7:36 pm |

Al

You're right, unless we fight Russia, China, one of our current military allies, or ourselves, all the air forces that we will most likely face are flying run down aircraft with poorly trained crews that are integrated, poorly and if at all, into a weak defense system. All of our most recent kills (80s and beyond and minus those against Serbia) have been against poorly trained and somewhat poorly trained Arab Air Forces.

Despite what others may claim, the F-22 is needed. The number of countries flying variants of the Sukoi Flanker series of planes is growing by the day. This plane is a very worthy adversary of the F-15. Not to mention, The Mig-29 is a far cry from the planes that were shot down over Iraq and Serbia. All of the planes can now be had with AESA Radar, thrust vectoring and forward canards. Air Superiority cannot be guaranteed by the F-15 anymore. To add to this, China and Russia are both developing fifth generation fighters that copy heavily off of the F-22. I think the F-22 is still the superior plane. However these planes would cause serious problems for our F-15's, F-16's and F-18's. During Red Flag exercices, the F-22 is posting kill ratios of somwhere around 80-1. That's 80 bad guys dead to one good guy. That doesn't bode well for our legacy fighters against any Russian or Chinese fifth gen fighters. Yes Russia and China may be the only countries with them now however people would be foolish to think they won't try to export them. They will. Look at Russias willingnes to export gunships to Syria despite an almost unanimous international condemnation. The F-22 is going through some growing pains for sure. That doesn't mean we don't need it. The F-35? I think that is another story.

June 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm |

Al

But, all because the F-15 has never lost in air to air combat, as far as we know, that doesn't mean we don't need to replace it. Like I just said, all its kills have been against poorly trained and generally not very capable enemies. If we want to remain on top, we have to be able to counter the newest threats from our most capable potential opponents.

what enemies exactly are we fighting, Al Queda has no air force, USSR is gone,

June 15, 2012 at 5:46 pm |

Subsafe

this is in response to southside mike,
Just because the USSR disbanded, that does not mean that we are all cool with Russia.

June 15, 2012 at 5:51 pm |

Coflyboy

Southside Mike– How else would we repel an Alien attack?

June 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm |

Subsafe

I agree that the F-15 and F-16 are capable platforms for today's aerial combat, however the driving force behind developing new platforms is the age and potential fatigue failure of the older planes. The real solution should be in opening new production runs of older platforms. This will save the $ in the research and development department which is what is really killing the DOD budgets while maintaining viable and functional war-ready assets.

It is untrue that one F-22 could take on 6 F-15s. Even though the F-22 has a low radar cross section (often spoken as "stealth"), it is still able to be detected. Also, the combat and weapons systems are what really determines a vehicles ability to engage multiple targets. F-15s upgraded with modern targeting systems and equipped with the same Air-to-Air weaponry carried by the F-22 allows them to fight on a near equal plain. If you start putting the numbers advantage in the F-15's favor and you will soon see the battlefield is not easily won. I would put 2 F-15s on par with 1 F-22. Sure you can throw the F-22 a wing-man and that scenario may buy them a 5-2 ratio, but not much more. On the flip side, put the number of F-15s you could buy for $300M (that would be ~10) against the number of F-22s you could buy for the same price (that would be 2) and the F-15s will wipe the floor with the "stealth" fighters.

June 15, 2012 at 5:48 pm |

Al

Subsafe, I don't know what the costs are to operate an F-15 vs an F-22, but in terms of operational costs I'd imagine 10 F-15s would be more expensive in the long run compared to 2 F-22s when you consider the cost of paying and training aircrews, maintenance crews, contracting costs, parts, etc. Every aircraft has growing pains, cost overruns etc. It's just some programs get a lot more public scrutiny than others. The F-18 ended up eating up a bunch of money since it was an OSD program being forced on the Navy and ended up costing a lot more money to develop and procure than its backers said it would (read the book "Pentagon Paradox"). AV-8, AH-64, V-22 and even the the F-15 when it had the F100 engines. Sometimes money for certain programs gets little scrutiny, and sometimes it gets a lot. Seems there are a lot of people against the F-22.

June 15, 2012 at 6:51 pm |

Garth

Research F-22 kill ratios @ Red Flag. For those who do not know what Red Flag is, it is a mock engagement conducted in Nevada and Alaska multiple times a year. It includes aircraft from every spectrum of the US military as well as our allies from across the globe. It is the closest thing to a real air war as possible. The F-22 cuts through every adversary like a minigun through a flock of geese. Its kill ratios are unheard of.

June 15, 2012 at 6:55 pm |

IHateLies

One thing to note is that the F15 is a multi capable fighter. It can be loaded for whatever operational missions. It has ground and air superiority capabilities, and can be loaded for both. The F22 is meant as an air superiority fighter.

The F22 is more targeted at replacing the F16s than the F15.

The F35 is supposed to be the be all replacement of all fighters.

June 15, 2012 at 7:11 pm |

Garth

The F-16 is a light multi-role fighter. The F-15 C and D are air superiority fighters. The F-15E is multi-role. Look at the first Gulf War where the F-15 had almost every single air to air kill. The F-15 is undefeated in aerial combat. Not so for the F-16. (although they weren't American F-16s that lost) That said, the F-15 has never faced any Sukhoi Flankers in combat. Look up info on mock engagements between US F-15s and Indian AF Flankers. Also look at war games between the Israelis and the USAF. Then you'll see why the F-22 is needed.

Might want to do a little research into what each of the planes are capable of doing before assuming that reduced radar signature is all there is to air combat.

June 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm |

Edward

When has the F-15 ever been in a real fight.... Iraq please, those Iraqi pilots wouldn't fly, becasue they knew they wouldn't last but a few minuets... The problem with the F-15 is that the aircraft are old, the airframes can only be upgraded so much... the F-22 is a wonder and the best damn fighter in the sky, every aircraft has it's quirks and kinks, the F22 is no different... the Air Force and Lockheed will correct the problem. As for the comment that the US defense spending is ridiculous... you are obviously not deployed or even in the military.... we lack the equipment to do our jobs... becasue people like you whine about the cost... if you don't like the freedom we and I say we provide, as I am active duty... then you are more then welcome to move to oh say Iran... so if you don't know why we spend the money on defense or how importnant defense is, refrain from trying to act like the subject matter expert.

Dizzy out of breath Pilots and ground crew...well I understand the pilots out of breath and dizzy,,but the ground crew?

But in reality... the ground crew, that appear to be just standing on a planet,..are standing on a planet that is spinning, and depending where on the northern hemisphere the ground crew is standing, they are traveling around on the surface of the Earth at 700 mph, to 900 mph..If they are at the equator, they are traveling at 1,037 mph...And that is not all, our planet is traveling around the sun at a mere 67,062 miles per hour...And our solar system is orbiting the center of the milky way galaxy at 515,000 mph.....And the Milky Way Galaxy is traveling at.....

It is a wonder, any of us can standup...We should all be out of breath and dizzy...

27.23 million miles per hour relative to the luminiferous ether, God's spatial absolute zero. Einstein was just making stuff up, Michelson and Morley detected relative motion after all, but Albert paid them off under the table with his Nobel money.

Fortunately, most of these monuments to the massive fraud, waste, and abuse of the military industrial complex welfare fund, are hardware broke on the ground and therefore unable to deprive anyone of oxygen.
Scare the obtuse, emotionally fragile citizenry with an imaginary boogy man, then steal their money to protect them from it. USAUSAUSA!!

With the possible exception of half a dozen thoughtful posts, I have never read so much crap by so many who know nothing about aircraft and their procurement. Most of you guys couldn't put air in a tire. Is this a parent teacher conference day?

"... so many who know nothing about aircraft and their procurement. Most of you guys couldn't put air in a tire."- You must be talking about DoD acquisition careerists, because those descriptors fit them to a tee.

a butt ugly plane built to compete for the f22 contract. was superior in all aspects.

but lost because the pilots thought it was ugly.

June 15, 2012 at 4:00 pm |

rp1588

The F-23 didn't lose to the F-22 because it was ugly. It lost because it was it was a more advanced design, so it would be more expensive to develop and manufacture, compounded by the inevitable delays in schedule.

June 15, 2012 at 4:27 pm |

US citizen

We dont need ugly planes. F-22 is cute – who cares about oxygen. Hope they have CD player.

Children, whether doing well or doing without, are NOT a responsibility of the Federal Government. Neither are they the responsibility of any State government. They are the responsibility of the people who decide to engage in activity that may in fact result in the creation of a life they are in no position to sustain.

Every major program has teething problems that don't fit into the schedule. If everything works right away then nothing significant was developed. The F-22 is probably the most complex fighter design in history, so something like this is inevitable. Your real problem is an inefficient and overpriced procurement system that leaves you with a fraction of the resources that your money ought to buy.

I think the problm is that these plains just fly too fast. Man was not mean to fly this fast!!! Of course they would suffer from hytoxia – they are flying high, fast, and then the vests are straglin them. Remember that its usually the most obvious reasons why things happen.

The SR-71 flew almost twice as high and twice as fast, no hypoxia whatsoever. And since our DNA most likely evolved from organic matter deposited on this planet by coments (it's a very serious theory and one of the best supported on the beginnings of life on earth) I would say we are definitely meant to fly high and fast.

Dizzy out of breath Pilots and ground crew...well I understand the pilots out of breath and dizzy,,but the ground crew?

But in reality... the ground crew, that appear to be just standing on a planet,..are standing on a planet that is spinning, and depending where on the northern hemisphere the ground crew is standing, they are traveling around on the surface of the Earth at 700 mph, to 900 mph..If they are at the equator, they are traveling at 1,037 mph...And that is not all, our planet is traveling around the sun at a mere 67,062 miles per hour...And our solar system is orbiting the center of the milky way galaxy at 515,000 mph.....And the Milky Way Galaxy is traveling at.....

It is a wonder, any of us can standup...We should all be out of breath and dizzy...

While many planes fly higher and faster such as the SR-71, those were not fighter type aircraft and did not subject the pilots to extreme G loads that the F-22 does. Seems like someone tried to reinvent the wheel and screwed the pooch!! Surely some group like NASA would have a solution for this!!

While it would make a good movie, i highly doubt this is computer-virus related. as far as i can tell, the US and israel are the only states with the capacity to create something as slick as stuxnet. maybe china or russia, but i really dont see why they would target our actually fighting forces. china would target economic data and russia would go for an espionage breach. so that leaves, what, Iran, Pakistan, N. Korea? unlikely. besides. as a country that engages in cyberwarfare, i suspect it has already been considered a possibility by the military and checked for.

China is eventually going to want their money back with interest and then what? Our government will make a secret deal with them and give away most of our secrets but not before the officials are in underground bunkers or in Canada somewhere.

have the "certificate of authenticity" to prove it. History Channel, Saturday mornings. But, act now, this offer is strictly limited to the number we can possibly suck..., er sell in the next five years.

I admire the intelligent comments made by those who can read and the ability of those who can read not to respond to those that clearly can't read or don't have the ability to interpret what they read.

Clever exegites can torture an interpretation out of the Bible to support any damn conclusion they wish.

Monkeys ferting cheese popcorn on the moon? Hey, it's right there in Revelation!

June 15, 2012 at 3:27 pm |

Joshua

The Bible discusses the Bear, (Russia, France, China?) and the Lion, Long thought to be the United Kindom and the Lion Cub, long thought to be the US. But no where does it mention the United States

June 15, 2012 at 3:47 pm |

Freedom

Doesn't mention US because we will be blown off the earth. PREPPERS ROCK!

June 15, 2012 at 3:59 pm |

Christina

Why would China want to take over the US? We're now a declining nation and just a big market for their exports (until we totally tank). China also owns trillions in US government debt....so they want to be able to get that back someday (good luck with that!). So stop trying to make China a scapegoat for your anger, and see that they have the most economic growth of any major county in the entire world...and we're just a big consumer-loser one on it's final slide.

The maintenance personnel who have to preform ground maintenance runs are also subject to this same problem. When you run the engine or engines on the F-22 the canopy has to be closed and is pressurized from engine bleed air.

Obama is the Anti Christ and while he is in control everything in America will fall apart, the economy, the countries moral fabric, its military machine....All gone under the beast, the dark prince from the a far away land that will destroy the great nation. Obama is the end for all of us.

Sell them for scrap! We all know that next year the Pentagon is going to convince those a$$hats in congress that they need some shiny new thing that works just as bad... And by "the pentagon" I mean defense contractors, and by "convince" I mean "bribe".

I was in Navy Aviation for six years back during Viet Nam and all aircraft air equipped with a funnel and tube feeding to the bottom of the fuselage. It's called a p*ss tube and once the pilot has relieved himself, a switch opens the valve to an 'L" tube facing toward the rear of the aircraft so the negative pressure created pulls the urine out of the funnel/tube where it evaporates in the atmosphere. Google it if you are skeptical. Pilots who routinely irritated the ground crew sometimes found their tubes stuffed with cotton balls or the "L" tube turned the wrong way.

You need to improve your reading comprehension skills before you reply. I said CNN is showing SOME FILE FOOTAGE OF F-35s, including a F-35B showing its short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) capability. STOVL is capability the F-22 doesn’t have. CNN mixed file footage of F-35s with the F-22 file footage.

The investigators are doing no investigation. They are calling Lockheed Martin and asking their permission to see if they can investigate. They are not fools, they know Boeing/Lockheed, SAIC and a handfull of thers run the DoD and the Congress.

It gets worse: the Air Force, who claim to be non-partisan in political matters, and who should, by all means want the best product to meet the needs of the future, for the best money, are actively campaigning for this jet. Same deal with the the Navy and Marines and the F-35. For the amount of money spent on just trying to make the F-22 work, the American public could have paid for the research, design, development, and production of an entire new product! I swear, the damned military procurement people are like kids in a toy store. Doesn't matter if we need it, doesn't matter what it costs, doesn't even matter if it works right; it's shiny and new, and we wants it, we does.

The people who dream up these kinds of bad a$$ weapons would be doing it for someone else if it weren't the DOD. Having them and being able to deploy them is the definition of America's global military domination. Keep spending, I say.

It is funny how CNN is showing some file footage of F-35s in this piece. The F-35 is a completely different aircraft from the F-22. Good job CNN! Continuing to lead the way in misleading the American people.

That is true. The only thing I expect out of CNN is to keep misleading the American people.

June 15, 2012 at 4:40 pm |

Shockwave

Ground crews AND flight crews having the same symptoms? Years ago we would conclude Carbon Monoxide. The O2 can be working perfectly, but if you're flooded with CO, that's what your blood will absorb, leading to Hypoxia.

That was my first inclination as well. With some of the more high tech carbon based materials that exist on these types of planes, it would seem logical that these materials may be releasing a carbon monoxide-like vapor when any sort of heat is applied.

The F-22 is slow and no good, Chinese jets are now better. We should sell all our military equipment and pay off our debt. All our guns, planes, ships, tanks etc.. everything and sell for cheap so they go fast.

Invaded?? Yeah, the civilian population has enough firearms to prevent an invasion. Military might is a hoax, the Chinese fighter is not. We are wasting our time and our money. The current crop of weapons is by far more then we will ever need yet we spend more and more on it. Waste of money and time.

Increased "torso pressure" means decreased cardiac return. This could abruptly drop blood pressure and cause pilots to pass out. Too bad they don't have physiologists or doctors working on this problem.

What a bunch of wussy pilots, my 71 Chevelle has the same G force as a F-22 and I dont have oxygen or even wear my seat belt. The F-22 is probally only slightly faster then my Chevelle and these pilots cant handle that kind of power. Just like my Chevelle it can be a little intimidating but you need to toughen up and take shorter breaths and everything will be fine. So sick of how weak our military has gotten, so many guys going faster then them on the ground and no problems.

I am far from your typical American, I can bench 350, I have 900 firearms, I have a million dollars in the bank, three house, 7 cars, 3 motorcycles, a boat and 2 jet skis. I am married to a former playboy bunny and I retired at 40 years old. You are a typical slob who worships me and are jealous of how great I am.

Just so you know.... I bench 375, own four gun shops (type 9 FFL), have $3M in the bank, 4 houses and a $800k RV, 9 cars including an old LT5 'Vette, 3 boats (one of which has two jetskis as tenders). You got me on the bunny though. None of my four current women has ever posed nude for anyone other than me and my videographer who posts our self-porn on redtube.

June 15, 2012 at 2:57 pm |

Satans Balls Sack

You @ssholes brag of your riches, but the anti Christ is here, the president of America and you will lose it all in short time.

June 15, 2012 at 3:00 pm |

NOBB

NEWSFLASH: You are all talking monkeys on a flying rock... your money, your possessions and your ex-playmates aren't coming to your funeral. Get some perspective.

June 15, 2012 at 3:00 pm |

Me too!

I am far from your typical American, I can bench my Corvette, I own Smith and Wesson, I have Bill gate’s net worth as pocket change, I own a small city, Ford’s Kansas City assembly plant ships directly to my house. I am married to the current playboy bunny and I retired at 17 years old. You are a typical slob who worships my ability to pull facts from my hot rectum.

Point proven. Typical American the whole " mines bigger than yours theory" at it's finest. How's that working out for you. Pretty swell I bet, everyone's rich online I don't know if you got the message. Of course I make 3 billion a year and I ride a Ducati and own 23 houses through out the world and bench 380. Your words touch my heart. Wonder why no other countries came to your aid when your in 18 trillion in debt

June 15, 2012 at 2:48 pm |

Tom Ridell

Jet Fuel is Kerosene.

June 15, 2012 at 2:49 pm |

mark

Oh poor DOD worker, your life sucks and mine rocks and you just cant stand that...Dont worry, I hear your wife works for tips cause no one will put the whole thing in her. LOL Loser....

June 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm |

Hot rod

Hey Mark,,, you rock brother...so many losers on here with way to much time on their hands...LOL

June 15, 2012 at 2:54 pm |

Okay Then

Good trolling. I hope it didn't tax your creative resources to craft a statement that foolish.

Jealous much?? I love how you CNN losers hate the fact I can say and do whatever I want and I prosper while you go to your dead end job and hate people like me...1% all the way mo fo.

June 15, 2012 at 2:48 pm |

Dan

@hotrod- I doubt you are 1% but, whether you are or not-

I serve my country in the army, I have a beautiful wife, 4 children (and 1 on the way), I rent my home (move a lot with the military), own 1 car and making payments on the 2nd. My checking account holds a little over 200 bucks after the bills were paid and my savings account is about 20% of that. My children smile and laugh all day long, I can hear them outside right now. My wife is reading a library book, and my 1 yr old is toddling around the living room holding a plastic key ring in one hand, and his juice cup in the other, giggling all the while.

You see, I am far richer than you will ever be, I have far greater joy than you will ever experience, I am completely satisfied and need nothing nor want anything other than my God and family, and the respect I have (that I earned) from my family is worth far more than your physical possessions.

I wouldn't trade places with you for all the money in the world... as a matter of fact- I pity you.

Hot Rod said: The F-22 is probally only slightly faster then my Chevelle

Comments like that (and the spelling error) take away ANY credibility; even if your car has a jet engine, anything with 4 rubber tires will be a small FRACTION of the 2.25 mach max speed of the F-22 (1500 mph)

I'm sure you were just attempting to make a ridiculous statement, but heck....I'll address it anyway.

Yep, you'd get great return in selling off these aircraft. The reason they're so expensive is because of the initial research and development, not just because of the cost of materials, manufacturing labor, etc. With each one you make, they technically get cheaper per unit. More importantly, even if we were stupid enough to sell them, they wouldn't get the R&D money back.

Using that logic, Who are you going to sell them too??? As the world stands now, stuff gets sold, copied and nullified as we see daily. You want your enemy to have your investment?? You did pay for them if you will recall...

So let me get this straight, Lockheed Martin designs a plane with a systemic flaw in the oxygen system. Then we pay them 19mil more to install another oxygen system on the plane instead of them fixing it for free? I call BS on that.

Not necessarily. Remember the article said ground crews were also having the same symptoms.

Fumes may be the cause, but the same engine is used in the F-35 so I don't know about that. My guess and I'm sure some will laugh, is some sensor is emitting some sort of pulse that is making the guys sick. I know it's a far flung idea but still possible.

That's actually how it works. The air force is responsible for putting together a comprehensive specification that details out the performance requirements of every system on board, then puts it out for bid. The winning bidder is responsible for designing/testing/building the planes in accordance with the spec and turning over the design and test data to the air force, which must review each item for compliance with the spec.

In theory anyway.

What often happens (my experience is in shipbuilding, but similar) is that the offices responsible for oversight and review of the design and test data are understaffed and/or unqualified to perform the massive amount of work dropped on them. Under pressure from higher up, they sign off on dubious reports or waive spec requirements alltogether in order to 'get it done'. Fortunately, most of the time they still manage to get it right or cut the corners only in non-critical areas. But in this case, it looks like the air force has screwed teh pooch.

What can I say, time and materials contract, whatever it take, but you should remember that this is not exactly the same as when you and me buy a car. They are building it to Air Force specs under heavy Air Force supervision during design and testing, and they didn't catch it either.

Fuel poverty is adlaery a serious issue for some people in the UK, but will increasingly become a very serious issue for many in the UK. There is a tripple whammy at work. First, the green subsidies adding a3200 to a3400 per year for the typical user. Second, generally increasing energy costs.The price of gas, coal and oil has risen steadily these past 5 years and will continue to do so in the future and the effect of this is exacerbated with a weak pound which has devalued significantly. This has pushed up energy prices by about 40% Third, incomes are being squeezed due to the financial crisis. Many people are not receiving pay increases yet inflation is running at about 5% and tax liabilities are increasing. All of this inevitably means that energy costs are becoming an ever increasing proportion of people's disposal income and for many energy bills becoming unaffordable.If every one was to deduct say between a3200 to a3400 from their energy bills writing to the energy companies advising them that they are not interested in green renewables and are not willing to pay a surcharge for something not wanted, there would be little that the energy companies could do (being swamped by numbers) and this madness would soon die a natural death. If the English were more like the French, I am sure that this is what would happen. Not an issue for the French since their government had the foresight to invest in nuclear on a large scale.The death of this low CO2 energy production may be the only good thging to come out of the financial crisis.

I wonder if our enemies slipped in a Stuxnet type virus into the system that crontols the respirator. Most of the plane is controled via computer. I would not doubt that this is an attempt by foreign powers to wrest control of the air from the USA.

That's not so far fetched. Complicated military systems have been sabotaged for years by employees for both the government and contractors, a little bug here and a little bug there, very hard to track down, and apparently impossible to trace the origin.

THere must be a troll-101 course before people are allowed on the 'interwebbings'.

June 15, 2012 at 2:47 pm |

Oscar Pitchfork

NO, NO! He's right-all Republicans DO suck. Either each other, or they suck at being GOOD theives. This, amateurish, kinda transparent shell-game kind of theivery is all that most of them seem to practice these days. Sadly, however, the lack of guile by most americans (males in particular) makes even the most transparent ruse, like Right To Work, a workable scheme by even the lamest of ducks. They babble their gibberish, comment about how great America was in the old days, and the next generation of Neo-Cons (or Neo-Tards) heads off to the polls...

CNN welcomes a lively and courteous discussion as long as you follow the Rules of Conduct set forth in our Terms of Service. Comments are not pre-screened before they post. You agree that anything you post may be used, along with your name and profile picture, in accordance with our Privacy Policy and the license you have granted pursuant to our Terms of Service.

Search Security Clearance

Share this blog

About this blog

CNN's Security Clearance examines national and global security, terrorism and intelligence, as well as the economic, military, political and diplomatic effects of it around the globe, with contributions from CNN's national security team in Washington and CNN journalists around the world.