Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (CreapureÒ). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37± 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.

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Kre-alkalyn® supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn® (KA) a “Buffered” creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (CreapureÒ). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37± 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.

well its from layne norton and he attended the discussion. It is peered reviewed as well. THese guys love there science and studies and actually take this horseshit waste of money so i thought it was good reading.

Yes but the problem being is that nobody on F&N cares for scientific debate .. so when macro posts science most people go "uh huh!" and follow along. The debate should be with other science based individuals, not F&N.

Those 2 guys are Doctors and Layne Norton is a known chemist pursuing a PHD in Nutritional Science.

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fair enough. just pointing it out because macro did have a point, good or bad, i Dunno. This shit is way above my pay grade.

Hm...i don't know. I have an almost full tub of creatine monohydrate and an almost full tub of CEE HCI. I got bloated from the CM, but i'm not 100% sure if it was because i did the loading phase (dumb of me, was still learning) or because it was creatine monohydrate. I would like to switch back to mono just for the taste alone. cee isn't really killing me, but it would be nice to actually look forward to your creatine. ah what the hell, it's not that, i just think the monohydrate was a little bit better for me, i might give it a go again, i just don't want that damn bloat and come to think of it, drinking a SHITload of water plus like 4 scoops of that shit for like 5 days probably did cause the bloat, it just makes perfect sense now.

Hm...i don't know. I have an almost full tub of creatine monohydrate and an almost full tub of CEE HCI. I got bloated from the CM, but i'm not 100% sure if it was because i did the loading phase (dumb of me, was still learning) or because it was creatine monohydrate. I would like to switch back to mono just for the taste alone. cee isn't really killing me, but it would be nice to actually look forward to your creatine. ah what the hell, it's not that, i just think the monohydrate was a little bit better for me, i might give it a go again, i just don't want that damn bloat and come to think of it, drinking a SHITload of water plus like 4 scoops of that shit for like 5 days probably did cause the bloat, it just makes perfect sense now.

Hm...i don't know. I have an almost full tub of creatine monohydrate and an almost full tub of CEE HCI. I got bloated from the CM, but i'm not 100% sure if it was because i did the loading phase (dumb of me, was still learning) or because it was creatine monohydrate. I would like to switch back to mono just for the taste alone. cee isn't really killing me, but it would be nice to actually look forward to your creatine. ah what the hell, it's not that, i just think the monohydrate was a little bit better for me, i might give it a go again, i just don't want that damn bloat and come to think of it, drinking a SHITload of water plus like 4 scoops of that shit for like 5 days probably did cause the bloat, it just makes perfect sense now.

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I'm the opposite. CM didn't taste bad but it was like having a "salt" texture in whatever you mixed it in. My CEE HCI (from allthewhey) can be mixed in 8 oz of water and a normal person couldn't tell you mixed anything in it.

hmm Interesting article. I recently started using cee and for the most part it feels like it's done nothing for me. I used CM a long time ago and had great results.

I'm the opposite. CM didn't taste bad but it was like having a "salt" texture in whatever you mixed it in. My CEE HCI (from allthewhey) can be mixed in 8 oz of water and a normal person couldn't tell you mixed anything in it.

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hm, strange lol. well i mix my cee with 4oz of water and just try to drink it quickly. thing is, i can't remember clearly if i had better results with cm or cee, i could be thinking i had better results with cm because it was the first time i took creatine and i was really psyched for it, who knows. i'll keep using cee and will probably try mono again and see how that works

maybe...i know i didn't. then again, the guys that say they get bloated could just be getting some minor bloats. i got a huge one because i did the loading phase and drank a shitload of water for 5 days...with like 4 scoops per day. i bet if i just started using it now and just took 5g after workouts i might get a tiny bloat or no bloat at all. i'll experiment after i keep using the cee for a little more

hm, strange lol. well i mix my cee with 4oz of water and just try to drink it quickly. thing is, i can't remember clearly if i had better results with cm or cee, i could be thinking i had better results with cm because it was the first time i took creatine and i was really psyched for it, who knows. i'll keep using cee and will probably try mono again and see how that works

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I had great results on mono. I did bloat (according to that bbforum link bloating is caused by taking too much) but it was welcomed since I was bulking. And every once in a while if I didn't have enough water I would get a dreaded creatine cramp.

I haven't bloated on CEE and no cramps have occurred, but it really feels like it has done nothing.

I had great results on mono. I did bloat (according to that bbforum link bloating is caused by taking too much) but it was welcomed since I was bulking. And every once in a while if I didn't have enough water I would get a dreaded creatine cramp.

I haven't bloated on CEE and no cramps have occurred, but it really feels like it has done nothing.

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that's kind of what i'm afraid of, something is definitely missing. i have never bloated or anything on CEE, but i feel like it's not doing what CM did to me...something like that, or it may not even be working at all, or maybe it is and i just got used to it now or something. well it's all good either way, i'll find out either way when i get back to trying mono eventually. i was thinking about christopher's post, and could it depend on the person if the cee is better than mono or vice versa? Or is it like this: if you respond well to mono, you will respond the same to cee and if you don't you won't respond well to mono you won't to cee either?

But I'm going to go ahead and stop posting because I would rather not be banned for disagreeing with a 'forum sponsor'.

I understand you're trying to make money here, and that's fine. I would genuinely like to see a real response to the scientific side of it on BB.com rather than a run around and an attack of the opposite side.

Not to mention, the guy is still a real doctor with real credentials that presented a relatively valid study that most companies, and I'd guess including yours, couldn't replicate if you wanted to. .

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this means jack shit. Sorry, but you need to get your head out of thier scientific circle jerk. Their are hundreds of doctors that try to publish everyday, studies that are crappy, poorly done or intentionally skewed.

the fact that you cannot see why questioning the study based on his motives is not only a good thing, but imperative, shows a blindness.

the study is relatively valid to the company reps that dont sell CEE or krealkalyn. big surpise.

just as note- CEE is not more profitable than monohydrate, its less profitable. and its a harder sell. People know creatine, if you have it and they use it they will buy it without any coaxing.