Would the Chimp indeed be arrested if he set foot in a foreign country?

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I wish I could visit fantasy-land sometimes, but living there has got to get old after awhile :p

kay1864 (1000+ posts) Thu Jun-26-08 12:42 PM
Original message Would the Chimp indeed be arrested if he set foot in a foreign country? For sake of argument, let's assume this post is correct, and the Chimp lands in Nice or Barcelona next March, not knowing there's an arrest warrant waiting for him for war crimes. Or arrogantly not caring, thinking he's immune.

A friend suggested that the Secret Service wouldn't allow him to be taken into custody. Here was my response (mostly guesswork):

AFAIK the Secret Service cannot prevent their arrest in a foreign country. It's not like they're taking the EX-president hostage--they are lawfully arresting him. Yes, the SS would do their jobs to protect him from imminent threat, but it doesn't extend to violating the laws of other countries. There might be a shouting match etc. between the lead SS guy and the lead arresting authority, but the SS would be forced to stand down, and the Chimp (as a private citizen, he no longer has Air Force One etc) would be taken into custody. Or they might just arrest anyone in the SS who interfered. Once you're in a foreign country (even if you're an SS guy), you don't have "American rights". You can and will be arrested if you're interfering with a police officer doing his duty.

Also, as a private citizen, Chimp would not be allowed to even leave said country, since as a private citizen, he has to go through customs and immigration just like everyone else. His passport would be confiscated were he to try and leave.

Now, maybe there's a VIP line that's separate from the main customs and immigration. but even THEIR officers are beholden to THEIR country--they don't give a rat's ass about US laws, since they don't apply. So if there is an outstanding arrest warrant, he simply would not be allowed to leave, and his passport confiscated. And if the SS interfered, THEY would be arrested as well, and THEIR passports confiscated.

And the arresting authorities may indeed show up with a platoon (for sake of argument, let's say it's Spain) . The Spanish police (or whoever) would be smart enough to show up with enough officers to arrest every member of the SS present.

Remember, Pinochet probably had a security detail with him too (which ultimately all the SS is--it's not like they're carrying bazookas under their suits). Didn't keep him from getting arrested.

How would this work? Next March, as a former Head of State (even an illegitimate one like the Chimp), does he bypass Customs and Immigration?

And if arrest were attempted, would the SS herd him back onto whatever private jet he flew in on, guns a-blazin'? Or would they recognize the authority of officers?

Wooooooow............ that's really.... special. I wonder if he had to wear a helmet while on the short bus? :D

Surprisingly, common sense quickly appears...

SteelPenguin (838 posts) Thu Jun-26-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message 9. No, they can't arrest him When the President travels to other countries he has Diplomatic Immunity provided to him by the Vienna Conventions. His secret service agents protecting him are also covered. It would be illegal for any agent of a foreign government on their soil to arrest the President, or any of his security detail, and if they attempted, would be considered hostile illegal action by the secret service, and they'd fight their way out if they had to.

... and is quickly shot down:

kay1864 (1000+ posts) Thu Jun-26-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. You're missing one vital point... The findings of a US appeals court is not binding upon the international community, nor is it a tenet of international law.
In other words, Spain or France couldn't care less about the case you cite.

Growler (524 posts) Thu Jun-26-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. It will never happen And if some other country tried it, President Obama would send a couple carrier fleets in to take care of things. And he'd be right to do so.

Once you're in a foreign country (even if you're an SS guy), you don't have "American rights".

Unless you are a terrorist, right? Or your Bill Clinton interfering with an American boys punishment (caning) for vandalism, right?

I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad

In other words, Spain or France couldn't care less about the case you cite.

Those are international conventions. Laying hostile hands on the leader of a sovereign nation is an act of WAR.

Kidnapping and / or holding a leader of a sovereign nation who is under diplomatic immunity can and will be responded to with lethal and overwhelming force.

I will give you a scenario: a US President is seized in the manner you prescribe. Unless he is released immediately, the 25th amendment can be enacted, you have a new President who will then order EVERY SINGLE PLANE into the air with one set of orders....reduce their defences to scrap metal.

Ground forces would be sent in to retrieve him..and God save anyone stupid enough to get in their way.

Carrier strikes on immediate tempo with more on the way, bombers scrambled and sortied..do the words full power and rage ring a bell?

Those are international conventions. Laying hostile hands on the leader of a sovereign nation is an act of WAR.

Kidnapping and / or holding a leader of a sovereign nation who is under diplomatic immunity can and will be responded to with lethal and overwhelming force.

I will give you a scenario: a US President is seized in the manner you prescribe. Unless he is released immediately, the 25th amendment can be enacted, you have a new President who will then order EVERY SINGLE PLANE into the air with one set of orders....reduce their defences to scrap metal.

Ground forces would be sent in to retrieve him..and God save anyone stupid enough to get in their way.

Carrier strikes on immediate tempo with more on the way, bombers scrambled and sortied..do the words full power and rage ring a bell?

Hell yeah!!!!!!!!

They're not people, they're hippies!! -Cartman

It is nothing against you to fall down flat, but to lie there - that's disgrace

Those are international conventions. Laying hostile hands on the leader of a sovereign nation is an act of WAR.

Kidnapping and / or holding a leader of a sovereign nation who is under diplomatic immunity can and will be responded to with lethal and overwhelming force.

I will give you a scenario: a US President is seized in the manner you prescribe. Unless he is released immediately, the 25th amendment can be enacted, you have a new President who will then order EVERY SINGLE PLANE into the air with one set of orders....reduce their defences to scrap metal.

Ground forces would be sent in to retrieve him..and God save anyone stupid enough to get in their way.

Carrier strikes on immediate tempo with more on the way, bombers scrambled and sortied..do the words full power and rage ring a bell?

While what you say is true, Sonna, I think the DUmmy is talking of a time during a post-Bush presidency, wherein he's the ex-President.