Comments on: Remembering Buddy Hollyhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151
A place to discuss safety-of-flight issues, procedures, techniques, and judgment.Tue, 31 Mar 2015 09:34:33 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.1By: Scothttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-27766
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:50:01 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-27766Of course, what a great site and informative posts, I will bookmark this site. Regards
]]>By: Calebhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-13010
Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:12:29 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-13010I have been told by several sources that the Buddy Holly accident – Beech Bonanza (N3794N) near Mason City, Iowa, lead to the creation of Part 135. I have not been able to find information to back this up. Is this true? Part 135 was created because of or influenced by the Buddy Holly accident?
]]>By: Matt Bellhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-13004
Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:29:01 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-13004After doing extensive research on the accident for a paper at the graduate level, I had concluded that the plane was overloaded and was tail heavy. The short duration of the flight lead me to believe that weather conditions were less of a problem as believed. In addition, the CAB investigation I believe was, at times, sloppy and inconsistent.
Matt Bell
]]>By: Sally Reed Stirkhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-12611
Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:32:19 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-12611Cary, NTSB only goes back to 1962. Sally Stirk
]]>By: Alex Kovnathttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-12581
Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:38:09 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-12581According to the article in the February 2009 edition of AOPA Pilot on the Buddy Holly – Richie Valens – “Big Bopper” (and, Roger Peterson too) tragedy, the autopilot on the accident aircraft was “recently installed but not operable”.

One wonders if even a simple autopilot – a “wing leveler”, if you will – might have given R. Peterson a little time to sort things out. And would John Fitzgerald Kennedy Jr. along with his wife and sister in law, still be with us today if JFK Jr. had used the autopilot on his Saratoga instead of hand-flying in marginal nighttime VFR conditions?

As a result of Mick (see above) pointing out that the accident aircraft may also have been suffering from CG being too far aft of the center of lift, I would like to pose another question: Would it be within reach of our present technology to equip aircraft with load sensors on the landing gear, to warn the pilot if the CG is too far forward or aft of the CL?

Provacative article; good job. To split hairs, the F-3 gyro was standard equipment in the 1947 Bonanza with the optional ‘IFR’ panel. Also, the F-3 was installed as original equipment in various Cessnas such as the 170. As a CFII, I have seen few students who payed much attention to the sky pointer vs. the pictorial presentation of the aircraft itself. The F-3 was a non-tumbling gyro that was a second generation gyro after the AN-5736 type that was common to US aircraft in WWII, and most of us are familiar with in our Cessnas and Pipers.

I own and fly a 1947 Bonanza that has been in my family for 25+ years. This Bonanza is not a ‘heavy handed’ machine such as the Cessna 210. It is very light and responsive on the pitch and roll axis in comparison. It also tends to have neutral static stability about its pitch axis at rearward CG(did you check to see if the plane had an auxillary 10 or 20 gallon fuselgae tank,. this was a popular aftermarket retrofit on these airplanes and added the weight directly under the rear seat). The airplane with the stock E-185 (basically an 0-470) will exceed Vno in level flight at high power settings and low density altitude. If the commerical pilot was flying at high power, aft cg, imc, he already had a high-workload environment. Add to that mild spatial disorientation, and the plane would have easily become unmanagable.

Blue Skies,

Curtiss R. Aldrich

]]>By: Cary Alburnhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-12545
Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:16:45 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-12545In the short time that the flight lasted, I doubt that ice played any part, but certainly the airplane was over gross and probably aft CG out of envelope–most of us know that number of seats does not equal passenger carrying capacity in almost every light single (other than maybe a C-182, maybe a very few others). But a Bo of that era with full tanks certainly would have been over gross and aft out of envelope–flyable, perhaps, but certainly not “hands off” stable.

I also doubt that the variance in the type of AI made much difference–I’ve flown with both and it takes only a short while to transition from one to the other. It appears that it was a pilot qualified only as a VFR pilot (he’d failed his IR flight test) who lost it in poor vis, i.e., continuing into IMC–and again most of us know that the life span of such pilots is extraordinarily short, usually measured in less than 2 minutes. Having the best of instruments without the skill to use them won’t extend the life span much.

I lost a friend a number of years ago who did the same thing, a VFR pilot who took off from CYS in light snow after dark, and got only a little farther than the flight in question.

Bottom line is that if you’re going to fly into IMC, you and the airplane better be qualified.

Sally, if you search the NTSB website, you will likely find your Dad’s accident report–all you need is the date and location. I understand your desire to know what happened–my Dad was killed in 1947 in a P51 that crashed near Hillsdale, WY, and for years I suffered through accusations made against him that he was “hot-dogging”–until I obtained the official US Army accident report just a few years ago, and found that he was the inexperienced innocent victim of an incompetent instructor.

Cary

]]>By: Mickhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-12543
Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:33:21 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-12543I could be wrong, but I remember hearing (or reading) that the original passenger manifest had Waylon Jennings in one of the rear seats. He (Jennings) traded places with Big Bopper due to the latter suffering with a head cold. If the pilot just counted heads instead of checking names, this would have resulted in a serious aft c.g. situation. (120 pounds vs. 240 pounds) If the aircraft had picked up any ice at all after take off, it would probabably have been uncontrollable regardless.
Comments anyone?
]]>By: Sally Reed Stirkhttp://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=151&cpage=1#comment-12540
Sat, 07 Feb 2009 20:32:25 +0000http://blog.aopa.org/asfblog/?p=151#comment-12540Bruce, The article on Buddy Holly brought back painful memories for me. Because my father was killed the following month-March 1959. He was on a charter from Mansfield Ohio back home to Shelbyville IL. He too was in a snow storm. They found him 3 days later in Greencastle IN. My Dad was only 29. I wish I could find out what happened! I never could get flying out of system. I married a pilot, I have my private, and my son is flying 747s. Fly safe, Sally Stirk
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