Didn't have much zip today.I haven't been eating enough. Like today, I got up and ate a few eggs and a pice of toast at 7:30am, then got involved in drawing and stuff, and before I knew it, it was 3:00 and I had to go do a long run. I never eat closer than 3 hours, so I was pretty hungry when I started---just didn't have any zip at the same hr.

That's when I knew this is a cutback week. SO, until SUnday or Monday, it will be just MAF runs.

I was looking back at when I ran my best marathons, and it was my practice to skip a week between long runs--sometimes two weeks. It was based on research that I read that it takes 2-3 weeks to fully recover from one. I'm going to return to that as my volume builds.

I'm starting my sixth week of a 15 week HM training plan that I copied from the Grandma's Marathon website. Recovery days will be MAF minus run days abd lately the easy days are staying at MAF for the average.

Today's run: 7.5 miles, 30 min Tempo

Type

Distance

Time

Total Time

Pace

Avg HR

Max HR

Notes

1

Interval

1.5 mi

13:43.82

13:43.82

9:10

136

144

2

Interval

3.94 mi

30:00

43:43.82

7:37

164

171

3

Interval

2.06 mi

18:26.46

1:02:10.28

8:58

155

171

The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

Well I've been doing anaerobic phase since I'm back from my crappy winter base building.

I'm being more careful than before... I feel almost undertrained but I feel good and I see improvement so I'm hoping I've got the right training load here. A tempo run a week (either in one go at a pace not killing me or at full tempo pace with breaks), and another run where I shake up the legs but not as structured as the tempo run.

These anaerobic runs are run at paces I only dreamed of before... my latest tempo run especially, it was 4.66miles in 33:53 at avg pace 7:16, avg HR 188. Didn't feel very hard at the end either because my HR got incredibly steady after a while, would not increase further even though pace was held even from start to end. Which was a good thing as it was already 192

Inserted the test into a 90 minute run. Warmed up 30 minutes to 170 bpm, then held the speed until I couldn't hold 180 bpm anymore. Followed the test with an extra 46 minutes at my last MAF test pace (aprox). Improved over two weeks ago by 7 seconds per mile--considering the temperature and my current weight, I'm not doing too bad. Heading in the right direction. I consider these tempos to be a good indicator of how I will fare in a race.

I've been experimenting with some of Daniel's running methods over the last few weeks.

So far I've been doing Threshold runs once a week (either cruise intervals or Tempo) and intervals most weeks.

Today was my second time trying his Repeats -

I did 5x400 meters around my mile pace (3:55 per km) with complete recovery (4 mins)

and found it quiet invigorating - the last 100m of each I could definitely feel the burn!

After being mostly MAF "shackled" for the last couple of years, so far it seems the base I've build is holding up.

how's the daniels training going? I'm curious because I'm considering using some training plan of his myself. my tempo runs actually pretty well line up with T pace based on my VDOT... lines up with the HR zone daniels says is to be used for tempos... it's all spot on really!

easy pace also pretty spot on, though maybe I should lower the HR and pace a bit more than what it says for easy pace for my VDOT. after such hard workouts that seems like a good idea to me... though I guess the pace given is top of easy pace anyway...

I like the idea of those repeats that you are doing... however I'm not doing them yet (save for a few 25sec strides here and there) and I don't have time for an entire cycle of just doing R paces without real intervals so what I'll do is combine it with real intervals in some way... I've seen other people do something similar to that and if I remember right then daniels plans include some of that too

Its going well.Regarding the Reps you could just add in a few at the end of your intervals, if you didn't want to miss those out.

I'm not following a particular plan per see myself, just using what I read in the book to add in tempo, interval and rep workouts myself (2 of the 3 each week) I've actually found the rep (speed) sessions the easiest, which kinda surprised me as ive never really done speed sessions before. Tempos are a little faster than what I've done tempo stuff before, but probably about right. The vo2 max (intervals) I find the hardest, but maybe i needed them. I've just had a fully maf week as I felt like I needed a mini break (feel ready for more again now ) I've noticed some people complaining about the plans but I think if you understand the basis behind the training and adjust according to your own needs and dont overdo it, then the training can be pretty effective. I've knocked 75 seconds off my 5k time so far, hoping to break 21 mins next.

how's the daniels training going? I'm curious because I'm considering using some training plan of his myself. my tempo runs actually pretty well line up with T pace based on my VDOT... lines up with the HR zone daniels says is to be used for tempos... it's all spot on really!

easy pace also pretty spot on, though maybe I should lower the HR and pace a bit more than what it says for easy pace for my VDOT. after such hard workouts that seems like a good idea to me... though I guess the pace given is top of easy pace anyway...

I like the idea of those repeats that you are doing... however I'm not doing them yet (save for a few 25sec strides here and there) and I don't have time for an entire cycle of just doing R paces without real intervals so what I'll do is combine it with real intervals in some way... I've seen other people do something similar to that and if I remember right then daniels plans include some of that too

Its going well.Regarding the Reps you could just add in a few at the end of your intervals, if you didn't want to miss those out.

I'm not following a particular plan per see myself, just using what I read in the book to add in tempo, interval and rep workouts myself (2 of the 3 each week) I've actually found the rep (speed) sessions the easiest, which kinda surprised me as ive never really done speed sessions before. Tempos are a little faster than what I've done tempo stuff before, but probably about right. The vo2 max (intervals) I find the hardest, but maybe i needed them. I've just had a fully maf week as I felt like I needed a mini break (feel ready for more again now ) I've noticed some people complaining about the plans but I think if you understand the basis behind the training and adjust according to your own needs and dont overdo it, then the training can be pretty effective. I've knocked 75 seconds off my 5k time so far, hoping to break 21 mins next.

thanks, yes I was thinking of adding the reps in this fashion.

I have not tried the daniels plan yet, I only have experience with T pace so far, but my impression from reading the book was that indeed the reps are the easiest because it's with full recovery, it's not really true anaerobic training, just there for neuromuscular improvements. and yeah, tempos (T pace) just somehow seem easier than the I pace thingies (VO2 intervals)... I dread those already hahaha so I can understand you there.

those VO2 sessions you've done, how long were they, 3mins or full 5mins? (at 3mins I could be ok, I think.. 5mins I'm probably not ready for, obviously)

what complaints did you see about the daniels stuff?

cool about you improving in the 5K so fast! good luck with continuing improvement!

One of the complaints I heard was there is too much hard running, which can be true esp if coming to it without a base.

Also some said the reps were too fast. looking at the plans I see some like 400 m rep with 400 m easy pace recovery. To me, this goes against what he says about a full recovery between reps. I definitely need more than that for a full recovery.

One of the complaints I heard was there is too much hard running, which can be true esp if coming to it without a base.

Also some said the reps were too fast. looking at the plans I see some like 400 m rep with 400 m easy pace recovery. To me, this goes against what he says about a full recovery between reps. I definitely need more than that for a full recovery.

For intervals I usually do 800m or 1k so 3 to a little over 4 mins

ah yeah, those 5K-15K training plans of his that I checked out include a lot of weeks with 3 hard sessions weekly! I don't think that would be good for me at this point. I'm ok with 2 / week but not 3. I did notice this about the limited recovery time for repetitions as well, I thought to myself along these lines "well if I follow this plan, I'll change the recovery part". I don't think the R pace is too fast otherwise, though. I think it's just fine, R pace seems the most doable for me, based on what I know about myself. I mean, even R paces for higher VDOTs than mine seem okay. otoh, the I pace for my own VDOT I'll dread if I ever start the plan let alone higher VDOTs

New to this thread...I can't decipher most of what you guys talk about...

Extrapolating the Maffetone chart of paces, if my MAF pace is 11:15 (that's an average, first mile is almost 10mm, last is almost 12...which is a lot of change..but I can run 8-10 mi. at 11:15 in real-world...), then 5k pace is 8:15?! My only official 5k last summer was at 9mm, pre Maffetone. McMillan says I can do a half at 9mm...?! I was thinking of 10mm as my goal half-pace.

I'd like to do a hard training run per week, for the next month...which is only four workouts, so I need to make the most of them, by which I mean I'd like to have some idea how fast to pace, so I'm not under or over by too much. In Big Book of... I was just re-reading about tempo runs of slightly faster than race pace but much shorter than race distance in the middle of a normal run as a tempo run. I know I can do 9mm for shorter distance, but planning to run 13 in a row seems daunting.