Went to Buffalo Wild Wings last night to see the UFC. And the place was packed.
Remember all those casul WWF fans form 98-2001? I'm pretty sure that there now casual UFC fans. One thing that completly took me by suprise was
how into the gound fighting everyone was. Ever time someone got a take down a huge cheer went up, you certainly wouldn't have seen that a few
years ago.

I'm in sourthern Illinois not to far from Hillsboro so people where reacting to Hughes as though he was the second coming.

As for the card. One of the best in a while.

Hughes in my opion is the nuber two pound for pound in the world. he weathered the storm and when BJ gassed he took advantage. Great display of heart
to not tap to the tiangle at the end of the second.

Rashad really improved his game. He actually finsihed a fight. People really reacted strongly to his slams. I think Pro Wrestling has made people
think that body slams are much more devesating than they actualy are.

The Crow vs. Swick fight was underwelming. Not a bad fight but a bit dissaponting seeing how David didn't engage untill the final round.

On the undercard Tyson Griffen showed that he's a beast and will be a force to be reckonded with at 155. Same with Lauzon.

(Misc.: Yves Edwards has been released, according to MMA Weekly. I think we'll see Matt Serra back at 155 after TUF4.)

That is the UFC's deepest and sickest division. It'll be interesting to see the cream that rises to the top. If I'm Joe Silva,
I'm making these matches (or they've already been made. I note those with a *).

I have spoken to two people now who claim to have been disappointed by Ortiz/Shamrock. Both went in knowing what was going to happen (as anyone
paying attention did), and yet both left wanting more than they got. Does anyone else here feel that way?

Me, I got exactly what I expected. A takedown, some defensive manuvers, but inevitably, several substantial shots and a stoppage. The fights
preceding it were not objectionable, and I rather enjoyed McDonald's win. What's to be disappointed about?

The only really interesting thing from the show was Shamrock's demeanor. I had asked Gimmick in chat (probably more than once) if he
thought Shamrock was 'shoot crazy' or just working people to get a good audience for the third fight. After last night, I'm a lot
more convinced he was just fucking around the whole time. His demeanor walking down to the ring suggested to me that he wasn't taking the fight
seriously, and the only reason he wouldn't take it seriously is because he knows what's going to happen. I don't think Shamrock
thinks Ortiz is some pushover, so one can reasonably assume Shamrock knew he was going down. His post-fight actions are even more telling. Suddenly,
all his hatred for Tito was gone, and even the middle fingers from that goon failed to set Ken off. All he wanted to do was shake Tito's hand
and remind him that they made a lot of money together. His post-fight behavior is more fitting coming from an "I was playing along because
that's how this works" perspective than a "I was just beaten into retirement by a man I despise" perspective. While I don't doubt that
there was (or is) some bad blood between these two men, at this point I think that much of Ken's recent umbrage in regards to Tito was, to be
frank, phoney. And good for Ken, his bank account is better off for it and I had a grand time sitting in the chat last night typing out "HE GONNA
GET IT."

I'm curious as to what the rest of you think, though. Was the fight disappointing? Is Ken Shamrock crazy, or crazy like a fox?

P.S. 'shoot crazy' is a joking term I do not actually talk like that. 'shoot slut' is also pretty good.

During TUF almost EVERY time Shamrock acted out against Ortiz you then had him talking to the camera about how he did it to get under Tito's
skin or light a fire under his team. So yeah, I do think the "crazy stuff" was a lot of acting or psychology. But I can imagine that he genuinely
did dislike Ortiz. Lord knows I do. Ortiz doing his idiocy could certainly have set him off a time or two, but I'd probably agree with you for
the most part.

Then again Shamrock could have just come to terms with everything. It was the end of his career in front of a big audience. And he had to have some
idea of what an underdog he was, even if he was delusional enough to think he could win. So going out with some dignity might have just inspired him
to let it go and be the man. Because if nothing else, despite losing in almost the exact same match as he did 2 he comes out looking like the better
man after the way Ortiz behaved. Tito walks away looking like a clown.

I got what I was expecting from Shamrock/Ortiz but I probably was a little disappointed. I hoped Shamrock would put up a better fight. And of course
I hoped that the match wouldn't end with another ref stoppage. But I got pretty much what I expected.

The undercard REALLY underwhelmed me. Hammil didn't impress me at ALL. I could wait for that match to end. Lots of hype that didn't
look like it held up. I like Groves but that fight wasn't much of anything.

Herman/McDonald seemed like the only fight worth watching. I dig Herman but I'm getting the sense that he's not that good. That's
2 in a row to Groves and McDonald and I imagien McDonald isn't exactly a major blue chipper considering this show seemed designed to push the
Shamrock/Ortiz TUF guys (which made sense since I was pumped when I realized that). Still, I was impressed with how long he held on locked into a
triangle choke, kimora arm bar, and bleed from the head (while catching elbows). If I remember correctly didn't he fight out of a bunch DEEP
submissions in the Grove fight too? If nothing else it seems like the guy can take a beating.

Show did nothing for me. One match I felt was worth watching, Ortiz making an ass of himself, and Hammil looking worthless. And if this was a big
TUF3 reunion where was Bisping, damn it!? I don't see anything on the web about the guy since his TUF victory. I would think UFC would feature
him last night if they could. I know its only been 4 months so its not like he's dissappeared or anything, but just curious.

In some hilarious news from PRIDE, known for their "freak-show" fights, one of the bouts of their card next week has been changed to a boxing match!
The Nevada State Athletic Commission will not allow the Mark Hunt/Butterbean fight to be contested under MMA rules. That is hilarious. First time that
has ever happened. (It has never happened to the UFC).

The rumor for PRIDE Shockwave on NYE is not Fedor/CroCop, it is for Fedor/Shogun. Dumb, dumb matchmaking by PRIDE if true. Yeah, let's run our
most promising middleweight star out there against our undefeated Heavyweight Champion.

Go Green! Go White! Go State!

Jheaton

Man of a Thousand Holds

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posted on 10-12-2006 at 01:05 AM

From what I've heard Bispings out with a hand injury. You can expect to see him Headline the TUF4 Finals against Eric Schafer.

I think this was the weekest of the UFN/TUF Finals shows on spike. I'm not too dissapointed because 1. It was free and I avoid bitching about
free fights unless they suck out loud (I had fun watching this show even if it wasn't as good as Bonnar/Griffen, Cummo/Stevens, Leben/Silva
ect)2. It was to be expected, none of the adviertised fights where going to be barn burners.

As for the fights.

Matt Hammil is boring to watch. I started the fight cheering for him and by the end wanted to see him get caught in a submission. He's 30 so I
don't know how much time he has to get to the elite level of fighters in his weight class. If nothing else they can promote himas the guy who
didn't get his right full shot on the TUF show and feed him to Bisping or something.

Unlike Hammill Kendell Groves looked very impressive. The fight was to short to be anything great but I'm looking forward to seeing him fight
better opposition.

I liked seeing Macdonald tap Angry Ed. Thats what Ed gets for being sucha cocky bastard. He believes his own hype to the point where he blinded. Much
like the groves fight he under estemated the fighter across the octagon and paid for it.

The Tito/Shamrock fight was as expected.
As for Shamrocks true feelings towards Ortiz? I think its a little from column A a little from column B. He truly dislikes Tito but at his heart
Shamrocks a bit of a carny. He wants to get paid and knows he can by playing up the hatred part. Remember Ken wasa pro wrestler before he got into MMA
so he knows how to work a feud. And I think hes big enought to bury the hatchet as well.

Dude, you gotta remember he's only been training for 11 months and he's 2-0. 11 months!!!! Add that to the deaf thing and I think
he's coming along nicely.

Give the man some time. We've seen Rashad improve greatly with each fight and he is a similar fighter and he had more pro fights under his belt
already.

Just give him some time.

Go Green! Go White! Go State!

GatorBait

CancerBait

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posted on 10-12-2006 at 01:55 PM

quote:Originally posted by Jheaton
I liked seeing Macdonald tap Angry Ed. Thats what Ed gets for being sucha cocky bastard. He believes his own hype to the point where he blinded. Much
like the groves fight he under estemated the fighter across the octagon and paid for it.

I microplay. Of all the guys we've seen go through the seasons, Ed Herman and Chris Leben are the 2 guys I've wanted to see get their
asses handed to them. Cocky, arrogant motherfuckers who think they're impervious to what others might throw at them. Dont get me wrong,
they've shown they're definitely tough guys, but they've also got weaknesses. Thank you, Mr. McDonald for putting Ed in his
place.

Kendall still surprises me. He doesn't have the look of a guy who should be able to compete in this sport, but man does he give it his all out
there. He's showing more and more how focused he's become, and his conditioning was showing, as well.

As for Hamill, I'm still torn on this one. I love an underdog story, and I was rooting for him heavy early on in his season. But his matches
have been VERY boring. I really think Bisping would eat him alive, right now. Let's hope he continues to improve since he's still pretty
inexperienced.

And Spike, let's get Luke Cummo out there one more time, please

DevilSoprano

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posted on 10-12-2006 at 03:52 PM

Technically Shamrock was a UFC fighter before he was a wrestler who went back to UFC.

He's never impressed me in either realm, the only thing that disappoints me from reports from this show is that Ortiz didn't flat out kill
the man. But now that Shamrock may finally be out of the MMA world, any chance of getting Dan Severn in the octagon so Ortiz could kill him too.

quote:Originally posted by DevilSoprano
Technically Shamrock was a UFC fighter before he was a wrestler who went back to UFC.

Actually, Shamrock was training to be a pro wrestler with Dean Malenko before he got into MMA. I think Shamrock even had some pro wrestling matches
under his belt before he started his MMA career (I forget his gimmick name in the early days, but it wasn't Ken Shamrock.)

Regarding Matt Hamill's fights being boring, that is unfortunately the case for most fighters with amateur wrestling backgrounds. Wrestling is
not particularly exciting to watch in the context of an MMA fight. Josh Koscheck is also a skilled wrestler, and while he is a pretty good MMA
fighter, his fights tend to be boring when he put his wrestling background to use.

Lastly, having been at the Shamrock-Ortiz fight, I encourage everyone to catch Rory Singer vs. Josh Haynes and Thiago Alves vs. John Alessio, neither
of which aired on Spike, but in my opinion, the two most exciting fights on the entire card.

UFC's web site has an On-Demand service where you can watch them right now, although I don't know how much it costs (nor am I familiar
with the quality of the service). Hopefully both fights wind up on a future UFC Unleashed.

Rich Franklin was absolutely DESTROYED by Anderson Silva. Unbelievable. 3:59 of the first round.

A knee bent Franklin's nose so far I can't even describe it. He just didn't look right.

For Silva, I'd think his first defense will be against the TUF4 winner on Super Bowl weekend, so that'll give them some time to scramble
some interested contenders since they can't rely on Frankiln to sell the fight anymore. After the TUF4 winner, it's probably Nate
Marquardt then David Terrell, Mike Swick, Dean Lister (?) and then maybe Evan Tanner, but who knows about him. He's currently going psycho. They
might need to swollow their pride and bring back Matt Lindland or Ivan Salaverry. I'd like to see Franklin fight Mike Swick or Dave Terrell on
the same card that Silva defends his belt on.

Pretty decent card. UFC 65 is shaping up to be pretty awesome, though, as is PRIDE 32 on Saturday.

Go Green! Go White! Go State!

Jheaton

Man of a Thousand Holds

Posts 1547
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posted on 10-15-2006 at 09:15 PM

Noses Ain't suppossed to look like that

Franklin just got destroyed. Wow. Interesting that a few the months ago there wasn't much going on in the division. Now we have a new champ and
quite a few contenders Mike Swick, Nate Nathan Marquardt, Chris Leben still a round, Dean Lister and Kenndal grove coming up. Things will be
interesting.

I wonder what was up with Rich thou? he seemed off as thought he had over trained or over depleted making his cut. Even before he started eating knees
he didn't seem to have the fire and intensity of his fights with Shamrock, Tanner, and the Crow.

I think you could run Silva vs Swick, then the winner of that vs TUF4 winner and have Rich vs Nate in a number one contenders match.

I think Kenflo vs Muscle Shark could be fight of the year. That was a lot of fun, With Kenny getting pounded and yet still fighting back.

If Kongo had one he probably would have been looking at a title shot. Now its back to the drawing board. Sucky fight either way.

One thing I was kicking around was with the way UFC: USA VS CANADA was promoted a while ago if UFC would consider running a TEAM MFS vs TEAM QUEST or
a MFS vs THE WORLD. I think both could be fun esspecially considering that MFS has enough fighters to fillout a card.

[Edited on 10-15-2006 by Jheaton]

GatorBait

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posted on 10-19-2006 at 07:40 PM

O'Haire vs. Butterbean

Dude, Sean O'Haire will be fighting Butterbean at the Pride "The Real Deal" PPV this Saturday.

He lost to Min Soo Kim in K-1 Hero's (which I believe is the MMA branch of K-1?).

GatorBait

CancerBait

Posts 4469
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posted on 10-19-2006 at 07:50 PM

Ah, ok. I've always thought that most K-1 fights were that stupid kick-boxing shit. I knew he had the one loss from the guillotine, though. I
had read somewhere (and I'll try to find it) that he was 10-0 or 11-0 in MMA before he became a wrestler.

Still, Butterbean?!?

Jheaton

Man of a Thousand Holds

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posted on 10-20-2006 at 06:31 PM

Yes Pride is MMA. they have a show on FSN that is worth checking out.

K-1 is a kickboxing orginization. K-1 Heros is their MMA division (They have Royce Gracie under contract and UFC had to go through them to get him to
fight Hughs).

Sherdog.com and Full Contact Fighter have data bases for records (http://www.fcfighter.com/news.htm)

Pride is owned by people who have a history in the pro wrestling buissness so you often see these freakshow type fights on the undercard.

[Edited on 10-20-2006 by Jheaton]

GatorBait

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posted on 10-20-2006 at 07:09 PM

Well then for those of you who may have seen Butterbean in an MMA fight, how does he hold up? Will he put up a good fight for O'Haire, or will
it be over quickly one way or the other?!?

LuckyLopez

Reeks of WCW

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posted on 10-20-2006 at 08:04 PM

quote:Originally posted by GatorBait
Ah, ok. I've always thought that most K-1 fights were that stupid kick-boxing shit. I knew he had the one loss from the guillotine, though. I
had read somewhere (and I'll try to find it) that he was 10-0 or 11-0 in MMA before he became a wrestler.

O'Haire's site says he had some sort of career before wrestling and that he was undefeated. But he doesn't seem to provide any
names of people he beat, any places he fought, or record. So if I had to guess I'd imagine that he's either partly BSing or overblowing
some amateur stuff. Maybe he DID fight in some MMA, kickboxing, and toughman stuff but it wasn't on the level or the legitimacy as the MMA
world today.

That's what I meant when I said I don't know how these guys keep records. There has to be some line as far as what counts as a real fight
and what doesn't. I've noticed that none of the Ultimate Fighter matches count on these guys' records except for the finals that
happen on the UFC event. And obviouslly if I've got a local Fight Club in my town that I'm 10-0 in that probably wouldn't impact
any MMA record if I somehow fought my way into UFC. There's obviouslly got to be some sort of sanctioning agreement and I'm guessing
whatever matches O'Haire won simply weren't up to snuff.