Got Milk? What’s so bad about milk?

I grew up drinking milk, we all tolerated it—loved it. Even had raw cow and goat milk for a long while. Made butter & cottage cheese now & then. For about three decades, now, I drink it almost never. A few times per year and I’ve gone years without drinking any.

I just got out of the habit, most likely from my five years in Japan where it was either not to be had or was some incomprehensible, sweetened & flavored abomination. No culture I can recall drinks milk as a beverage with a meal as Americans so commonly do, even into adulthood. But I dunno. I love ice cold, whole milk. I just don’t drink it often. When I do, it’s almost never with a meal, just as a beverage or, a “meal” in itself.

So after many months of none, I’m on a kick this week. Which is nice. There’s something about whole milk that just improves every marker for me in terms of feel good, well being, energy, satiation, and so on. Yea, milk isn’t Paleo—supposedly—but I wonder about something, too. It’s a complete food. It’s the exclusive nutrition not for just a mammal, but a growing mammal in its most critical stage of life—those first years. And: Exclusively! And so I wonder. Do you? Did you just hear “milk isn’t Paleo” and said, “well, that’s that; the priests have spoken?” But is it “not Paleo,” necessarily, because it’s unhealthy to drink if you tolerate the lactose, or something else in the evolutionary scheme?

I could go out and look up a complete comparative nutrition profile on cow, goat, or sheep milk…compared to human milk. What do you suspect I’ll find? Differences, but not a fuck of a lot. Probably similar macro ratios, give or take. Probably similar vitamins, minerals, and specific aminos that promote growth.

But here’s something you might not have thought of: milk is in liquid form and as such, is highly bioavailable. Everything is bioavailable. If you can handle the lactose, chances are it’s the most easily digestible food there is. It’s designed to be. Hell, it’s even designed to drink, and go right back to sleep.

As all familiar with the whole milk deal—by which I mean the whole deal and not whole milk—know, lactose intolerance is the norm; a natural mechanism to wean, and tolerance is a mutation about 8,000 years old that has quickly spread across the globe and marches on (because, milk is fucking nutritious and an excellent use of cattle).

So here’s my quandary. How is milk bad for you if you can tolerate the lactose? It was supposed to be your exclusive nutrition for your very first few years and now, it’s bad, awful, unhealthy? ….And we’re not even talking about exclusivity. 200-400 or more calories of milk per day is going to be bad for you!?

How about stop and consider the evolutionary purpose of weaning. Was it because milk is overnight a bad thing for you; or, rather, is it because the mother needs to get on and get ready to bear another offspring? Seems obvious to me.

Here in the Bay Area I’ve tried the raw milk from both Clarvale and Organic Pastures. I prefer the taste of the latter. Then I recently found this.

Saint Benoit

It is simply the best milk I have ever tasted. It’s 100% Jersey and as such, has 2 more grams of milkfat per 8 oz than the holstein milk from those other dairies. Here’s the website. It’s pasteurized, but at the minimum 145 degrees. Not homogenized. You have to shake it and the cream mixes easily, just like the raw milks and unlike Strauss cream top.

It seems to me that if dairy is at all part of your nutrition, why deny yourself the tastiest part of it—if you like that sort of thing? Nope, not talking about exclusivity like when you were a little thing and not even necessarily as a regular thing. But now and then? A quart per day over a few days, then leave it alone? Something like that? For me, it’s hard to mistake the enhanced feelings of well being and energy with a few glasses of that per day.

For me, it’s not about it being Paleo or not, it’s about it being non adult mammal, there is not one adult mammal in nature which consumes milk. And, I don’t think milk from ruminants has ever been abundant through our evolution.

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Whenever I hear someone parrot “no other mammal drinks milk after weaning” I just laugh at such stupidity. There is not a carnovore on earth that won’t eat/drink milk given the chance. You think if a carnivore takes down a lactating female animal, that it will eat the entire animal except the milk?? Nope, that carnivore will lap up that milk. But, animal herds protect their lactating females, so it is rare for carnivores to get a chance to get milk….but given the chance they will eat/drink it. What is the difference between eating animal flesh and consuming milk? It is all part of the animal. It is so UNPALEO to say eat one part of an animal but not another!

Exactly the logic that got me thinking of this, and how about humans where the latest evidence just pushed our selective hunting back 1.6 mil years to 2 mil total. You don’t think they ever selected for lactating females, knowing the extra bounty? And yes, it’s funny when you think about it. Use ALL the animal, except its milk.

Bottom line I think is that we wean not to stop ingesting milk but so the female can go reproduce again. No other explanation makes much sense.

Richard, I agree with what you said. Most native populations I have read about breastfeed their babies for 3 years, then it’s time to get pregnant again. I think this shows that native mothers still have the natural instinct for what is best for their babies. Human babies naturally wean themselves by about 3 years. It’s instinctive. They are patterning their parents eating habits and want to eat what their parents eat, use their teeth, their hands and the need/desire for breastfeeding declines until they are weaned. Occasionally in modern society you may see a mother breastfeed past 3 years, but I see this as baby and mother having lost the natural instinct to wean. Most human babies are weaned much earlier now (most babies are lucky to get 3-6 months of breastfeeding), but this also shows a loss of instinct on our part.

The bottom line, I think the main reason a baby is weaned naturally (and not forced) is an instinct on both the part of the baby and on part of the mother.

However, just because it is natural for a baby to be weaned from its mother, this does NOT mean that milk is no longer food. If it is acceptable to eat animals then to exclude animal milk as food is illogical.

Also consider that the development of different tools allowed humans to expand the kinds of animal foods they could eat. Such as tools that would allow them to eat brain tissue. Using another tool, their own brains, they figured out how to milk a ruminant. Sounds paleo to me!

I make a meal out of a tall cold glass of whole milk (or two) and a banana. Not only do I find whole milk to be quite tasty, but I also find that it makes me feel absolutely fantastic.

Milk, along with other foods which some deem non-paleo like potatoes and whole corn tortillas has that same effect of increased vigor and vitality when I consume them. When I first went the paleo route I did away with these foods and went somewhat VLC (still consumed a decent amount of fruit) and saw incredible results. A year or so later of eating this way and I was ripped, looking sexy as fuck, but I noticed a decreased sex drive and generally felt drained, not much energy as I had when I was still eating grains. Fast forward another year or so after having re-introduced these foods into my diet at regular basis (eating these foods 2-4 times a week) and not only do I still look as great as I did before, but I have boundless amounts of energy and my sex drive is seemingly at its peak – taxing my gf something fierce on the daily and if she’s not available then I rub a couple out per day on average. Good stuff.

All upside with me, I see no reason to avoid these foods unless you can provide evidence that it’s affecting your health/body comp negatively.

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In fairness to the priests, the anti-milk sermons often relate to it being highly insulinagenic and promoting leaky gut. I don’t know for sure how problematic, or consistently these things happen, but it’s detractors do go beyond “it’s not Paleo”.

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@alvaro But alot of adult mammals would if they could raise and milk cows and do when they get offered it.

Personally I love my dairy especially full fat greek yoghurt. Being natures growth food and a liquid I can see it being problematic for some people, easy to add a bunch of delicious calories worth of everything you need without noticing but for fucks sake how many times do people need to told its about moderation.

@SteamboatOperator lol, noticed the same kind of thing when I started being quite low carb paleo so ditched it before to long and didn’t quite get ripped (lost about 5-6 kilos of fat though) sex is more important than a six pack to me. I find my current paleo-ish diet works well for me and would be about perfect if I stopped eating the amount of sneaky junk food I do.

Coming into summer here so vege intake should spike along with activity and we shall see how I go.
Oh and thanks for the blog :)

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A while ago I got some kefir grains, and since then I ferment my milk and drink that. It tastes excellent, and has a lot less lactose because its converted to lactic acid, and is extremely healthy for your stomach.

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I’m so Happy that finally someone in the realfood scene admits that organic milk cannot be considered unhealthy per se !
I love to have some full fat milk with my coffee, i need milk after sports and the next morning. And if that’s the cause that my abs get a bit blurry, i accept it.

Same thing for real Greek yogurt, which is fermented with more than 5 probiotics with all its cream and drop dried (= protein content of 10g per 100g).
Even people that do not tolerate lactose should try Greek yogurt with thyme honey, cinamon or both ! Like the Ancient Greeks did !

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I was under the impression that the argument goes something like ‘But milk is designed to help babies grow, so if we drink it we’ll grow too, only sideways rather than up’
It doesn’t seem to be doing that to me, so I don’t avoid it, but I guess some people are more sensitive to external hormones than others.
Oh, and apparently it causes acne.
Thanks though, I’d never quite crystalise the thought in my head that it’s probably the mothers who get tired of feeding the babies, not the other way round. I’ve certainly seen cases with freinds who breast feed on demand with no weaning age where the kids just never seem to want to give up!

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In Nordic countries, it’s common to drink milk at breakfast, lunch, dinner — hell, whenever. Every cafeteria in Finland serves at least two kinds of milk (skimmed and semi-skimmed), usually also soured milk.

– JLL

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I quit drinking milk about a year ago, and after a week or so I noticed a decrease in congestion. I was surprised because I have loved drinking milk my entire life, and thought I tolerated it well. I didn’t realize that my congestion was abnormal until it went away. Where I live it is harder (and more expensive) to get raw milk, so I haven’t tried it yet. I think it is possible that something occurs in pasteurization to alter the proteins. I eat yogurt on occasion, and kefir, and they don’t seem to have the same effect on me. I am definitely no expert on evolution, but I wonder sometimes about assumptions of the speed of adaptation. How long does a food need to be present in our environment, especially if we do things to it, like ferment it, that make it easier to consume. Anyway, these are my early morning ramblings. I love your blog and read it often, but seldom have the time or inclination to comment. Thanks for your contributions to my health and life.

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I love whole milk from Snowville Creamery in Ohio. I don’t give a shit if it is Paleo or intolerable for many. Nothing tastes better in the right situation and nothing natural builds muscle as well in my book.

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This is part of what Im looking for. Now that I think I’ve finally sorted out my cervical herniation that has had me out of the gym more than in the last year and a half, I think I finally know what to avoid to prevent a flair up and weeks of pain and weakness in my right arm.

Did I get that right? Nikoley is getting back to the gym. FUCK YEAH! GO YOU GOOD CUNT, GO! GO! GO!

I’ve been paleo and gyming for years. Results seemed low for effort. I’ve spent the last two months on some specific amino acids and my results have gone fucking ballistic! Not BCCA either. Target the specific aminos you need.

Yea, the last workout was the one in Austin with Skyler Tanner and Doug McGuff I blogged about. I was super sore but fine, then some days later, BAM! Right back in the chronic, nearly 24/7 pain—though not as bad as previous times—for about 3 weeks I think.

But I think I narrowed it down to the overhead press on that contraption of theirs. I really went all in.

So, I’m doing basically a BBS protocol with DLs added (starting light at 205# for 3×5, slow reps) and instead of a heavy overhead press it will just be light vaginal conditioning for now until I see what’s up.

I haven’t drunk it much in years, though I’ve always eaten lots of cheese. Since doing the low-carb/paleo thing, I’ve still eaten plenty of cheese. I never could remember why it was supposedly bad and it’s just too good a component of the diet. Now that I’ve passed my goal weight, I’m doing a lean-gains thing and am eathing a lot of cottage cheese and some yogurt and such. It doesn’t seem to bother me.

However, I recently started picking up a pint of chocolate milk after workouts as a post-workout supplement. Now I remember the effect of liquid milk on me–smelly farts. Happens every time starting a couple of hours after I drink it. I presume it has something to do with how I am (or am not) digesting it. It doesn’t make me feel bad or anything. I just toot every few minutes for a couple of hours.

I plan on continuing the practice, because it’s cheap and easy to pick up before my long commute home from the gym. My wife has put up with my flatulence for many years, so I’m not worried that she’ll divorce me over it. But, it probably indicates that I have some sort of intolerance to it that really isn’t that good for me. But, I figure at twice a week it’s one of those what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger things.

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Thanks. I may try that. It’s never bothered my stomach, so I assumed it was something else. My wife is lactose intolerant and she gets severe stomach pain when she drinks milk or eats yogurt or such. I must have a very mild intolerance.

Thanks. Unfortunately, that defeats the idea of the quick and easy post-workout supplement. I live almost an hour from work/gym. So, after the gym I want to get a quick hit of protein and carbs. I’m too cheap to buy the fancy supplements you mix into a shake. But, it’s easy to stop at a gas station and pick up a pint of low-fat chocolate milk, which is pretty much the same thing. I can also drink that as I drive.

I think I’ll pick up some lactaid pills and keep them in the car. That way I can just chase one with the chocolate milk and be golden. I’m sure my wife will thank you all. :-)

I second the comments about decreasing congestion (no more coughing up gunk in the mornings) and its acidifying effects. To expand on the latter–I think terrain theory is VERY important for avoiding illness, and I went from one massive illness a year plus smaller colds to, like, nothing, since I went paleo, and especially non-dairy paleo. Foods that make your body acidic in response (and thus more hospitable to illness) are those that are alkaline in nature. We are at our healthiest when we’re at a 7.4–just a little bit alkaline, and thus animal products from HEALTHY animals will also be alkaline. Trouble is, if we consume them, we’ll be more acidic! This is naturally balanced out by eating acidic foods (fruits & veggies). What’s the problem with dairy, then? Milk apparently has so much of an acidifying effect that your bones use up their OWN calcium trying to mitigate its effects! (It may be that more processed dairy (cheese, etc.) doesn’t do this as much, though, as is common with altered foods, i.e. people are less allergic to more-processed food because the proteins have been altered enough that it registers as something else in the body than the original allergen.) The ironic thing is that milk from an unhealthy animal is probably more acidic in nature, thus not as taxing on us, but that’s not a good reason to have non-raw dairy what with all the other concerns of CAFOs!

Children have a gene that allows milk tolerance that turns off at some point in their development, which is perhaps why weaning times can be highly variable. Some don’t have the gene turn off at all, and can accidentally tolerate dairy as an adult. Essentially, yes, milk is an awesome food, but it’s not for the majority of us. We’ll see bodily benefit because of the inherent nutrition it provides to growing babies–that part’s inescapable–but I feel that the fact that it’s still not meant to be part of our adult diet on the whole is a big indicator that it will have undesirable effects nonetheless, like the aforementioned de-calcification of bones.

This was what led me to my ‘adult weaning’, as it were, and trust me, it was hard! But I don’t miss it now, I seem to have broken the endorphin addiction finally.

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its just one of those things, there may be very good evidence against it, but it seems like its been kept a secret or just not talked about. Maybe people accept “no dairy” so easily, versus grains, a strong argument has never had to be made.

I admit, the nomenclature surrounding this is very confusing…I wonder if that’s deliberate so as to keep people from balancing themselves and avoiding disease?

Veggies are ‘alkalizing’, not ‘alkaline’, meaning they are acidic in and of themselves, but they make you more alkaline because they’re pushing your ph into the acidic realm when you consume them, and you need to become more alkaline to adjust it back, and vice versa for animal products. Here’s a good list: rense.com/1.mpicons/acidalka.htm

True, in a varied diet we’re much better off and this is less relevant, but in the SAD, a mere cheeseburger is going to acidify the hell out of you, what with the triple punch of meat, dairy, and grains, all of which are alkaline foods. And you can bet that there will be no follow-up vegetables and fruits to mitigate the effect (well, nothing beyond ‘fruit-flavored’ candy, that is (artificially-flavored, of course))!

Wow that is some amazing process where milk helps babies grow bones and yet eats away the bones of adults!
Whole milk is a “whole” food able to fully support a growing mammal, perhaps some whole milk consumed without a bunch of crap in a box(SAD diet) is not an issue for a lactose tolerant adult.
That said I do not personally handle milk well, cheese, yogurt and butter are fine for me.

I know it’s not a one-to-one correlation, but the point still stands: what may be good for an adult may not be for a child, and vice versa. They’re two entirely different phases of life. It’s like trying to feed flies to a tadpole, it’s not gonna work! I don’t see how children tolerating milk and adults being less able to is any different from that.

Actually, there was a time, not too long ago, when a spoonfull of bourbon and honey or sugar or such was given to children to help them sleep when they were sick. We’ve got more approved drugs to do that now. But, a child’s liver is quite capable of processing a reasonable amount of alchohol.

I have heard a few times from Cordain or Robb Wolf that there is a lot of science that shows how bad dairy is for you. But, I’ve never heard or seen any of the evidence or arguments. I also know that Dr. Harris, when he was making recommendations and blogging, didn’t seem to think there was anything wrong with dairy. Together these make me think there may not be too much to the argument or at least that it is far from as concrete as it paleo makes it out to be.

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I think I’ve linked milk(probably the proteins in it) to my rosacea flare-ups. I can handle heavy cream, in small doses, and butter, and cheese, but if I have ice cream, or anything else with dairy in addition to my cup or two of heavy-creamed coffee, and butter in my lunch, I get skin issues.

So I avoid milk. BUT, on the occasions I’ve been able to buy raw milk, I don’t recall those effects…it’s just a matter of getting out and buying the stuff.

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These last fifteen years or so – day in, day out – I’ve gotten, via the medium of milky coffees, maybe 1200 calories from milk (semi-skimmed (2% fat) as whole milk tended to push me towards lumpiness).

Was vigorous all the while and yet this last week I’ve cut back to half a pint a day to see what happens. Vanity has gotten the better of me. Am often afflicted by a certain spottiness about the thighs and bum and the link between dairy and acne is often trumpeted.

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I went full tilt Paleo about a year and a half ago and lost 46 lbs in 5 months. I felt great and all of the other benefits you would expect. After my wife said I looked emaciated, I decided to add dairy back on the menu and started drinking raw milk. I seem to be able to tolerate the lectins in the milk just fine as I feel no ill effects; not like when I eat bread or oatmeal. At one point I started drinking half and half just to keep the fat count up. I’m down to whole milk as I am not lifting as much as I was when I was trying to pack on the pounds.

I just wish I lived in an area where raw milk was more widely available. You would think with all of the hippies around here, there it would be more prevalent. Oh yeah, government regulations. Thank God I have them to protect me from myself.

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I think milk tolerance has a lot to do with your immediate ancestors – were they milk drinkers. I’m half Swiss, a quarter Irish and a quarter English. My English grandmother grew up on a dairy farm and lived to be 91, and we all know the Swiss consume gallons of dairy, and are some of the healthiest people on earth.

I was always a cereal eater, so milk was always part of my diet. Unfortunately, I miss diagnosed my digestive issues as a milk problem – you all know it was the cereal right? So I shied away from dairy for a few years, switching to almond milk, then nothing after dumping cereal.

Now I’m back – whole raw milk a couple of times a day, and a bowl of ice cream every night (I also thought I had an issue with ice cream – turns out it was all the added gums – thickeners. I figured this out because I can’t drink cream that has gums in it either – nasty stuff). Even with all that, and the fruit I’ve added back into my diet, I’m still on the low carb-ish side of the scale <100g.

Back to the point – if your ancestors were not long time herders/dairy consumers, I'm talking thousands of years, you're probably going to have a problem with dairy. It's all in the genes.

Cheers

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I drink 1-2 pints of milk almost everyday. Not to fussed about the pasteurization but I do try to avoid homogenised milk. My diet has been quite high dairy my whole life and I never had any problems, dairy is a “superfood” as far as im concerned.

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Damn, you guys making me miss my MommaMoo. …Not! MommaMoo was beast! From moment I born, she yelling at me: “Get up! Stand! Walk!” Son of bitch lady, can I wipe you placenta off me first?! Then she take job at milk factory and leave baby Cow to fend for self. What kind of animal do this?!

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The males are made into steers and raised as beef cattle. Since the main dairy breeds are selected for their ability to produce huge amounts of milk, the meat is of poor quality, thus = they are destined to be hamburger, not steak.

Only a few heifers are retained. Males are not raised as steers. They are not culled because their meat is of poor quality. They are culled because they are inefficient at converting feed into meat. Trust me, you don’t know anything on the subject so SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I’ve been drinking a lot of raw milk during the past year, which comes from a family friend who owns one cow, at a cost of $5 per gallon. The farmer calls it “maple syrup” because in my state of Wisconsin farmers are breaking the law by selling raw milk. We fill half gallon mason jars with it, and usually the milk has 3 to 5 inches of cream at the top. I was told this cow produces a special type of milk that makes it tolerable even for some that are lactose intolerant, although Google tells me nothing about that special case. I am of mainly Belgian descent from a long line of dairy farmers and do not have lactose issues, so I am guessing I have the lactose tolerance gense from way back.

Some points my farmer likes to use:
–This milk comes from one cow, and I know the health of the cow is excellent. A store gallon comes from perhaps hundreds of cows with varying degrees of health.
–Raw milk contains enzymes that help you digest the lactose (have not verified this myself) that would be destroyed in the pasteurization process.

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Fortunately, near my location, we happen to have the most dangerous of all government enemies, Amish and Mennonites. (Please don’t be scared.) Neither of these groups raise anything but organic, and if you are nice enough, and very lucky, you can get them to sell you milk.

I love it when we have too much, those weeks, we make yogurt and kefir, and recently, we also made some cheese.

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I always wondered what the hell is supposed to be wrong with unadulterated dairy and why are paleos against it. Go without it, evaluate, introduce it again, evaluate. I’m so lucky to live where I live in regard to milk and dairy. I live in a fucking Dairyland! About one year ago after going “beyond” Paleo and reintroducing raw and fermented milk and all the good processed dairy and discovering I have absolutely NO health/performance issues with it, I eat and dring a shitload a day of it every day. Sometimes half my daily calories. I can’t get enough. Must be the casomorphins… :) They probably cause me to sometimes eat a kilo of fruit on training days too and kill my blood after I squat for 12 sets of 3 reps and power clean for the same in one workout… And good on you Richard for starting to work out again, hit a PR or two ASAP!

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if we try to eat seasonaly & locally, why avoid dairy? (for those who have no problems for lactose or casein)
it is vastly easier to get high quality dairy than getting imported coconut products where i live? (i do like coconuts a great deal tho)

Exactly. I recently fount out that I still have about 6 cans of coconut milk in the pantry. They are about one year old… Just did not have a reason to touch them during that time, mostly because of the dairy.
I do however eat dried coconut a lot because I just like it, and I also like it for being more “whole-ish” (and because 75% of all store-bough fresh coconuts are spoiled, I hate it, but I made a game out of it and is a little victory for me when I guess-buy a decent one :D).

I stopped really drinking milk by itself around my teens, and insisted on skim while I was desperately clinging to every diet I could find to lose weight as a college sophomore. Milk doesn’t really hold an attraction for me anymore, since my favorite use of it (on crunchy cereal) has fallen by the wayside, but other dairy does. I enjoy cream in my coffee when I’m not Whole30ing, and that can serve as breakfast alone. I will put butter on anything that doesn’t get away fast enough, I love sour cream on mexican food or pretty much any food (borscht is delicious with a dollop on top) and I enjoy cheeses as flavors (feta on greek salad) and as main components of meals (mozzarella and tomato salad, anyone?)

I still enjoy either milk or coffee with cream when it’s the holidays and I’m eating way too much of the goodies we bake around here.

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I'm Richard Nikoley. Free the Animal began in 2003 and as of 2018, contains over 4,600 posts and 110,000 comments from readers. I cover a lot of ground, blogging what I wish...from health, diet, and lifestyle to philosophy, politics, social issues, and cryptocurrency. I celebrate the audacity and hubris to live by your own exclusive authority and take your own chances in life. [Read more...]

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