What's our record lately with Kearns and Marson in the lineup? Man, I wish we could have gotten Chris Ianetta. I know...we had given up too much for Jimenez, but still would be nice. I like that we have Ubaldo, but we really did jack shit to fix our hitting problem. The wait for Choo game has grown vastly old and we've basically got 32 games when he comes back to win division (isn't that what we had in major League?)

scrambler wrote:We're having a good road trip so far. 7 at Boston and Texas, I said earlier I'd be happy with 2-5 based on our history. At 1-2 we're ahead of the curve. 3-4 would be almost unachievable.

If you're a loser than you're having a good road trip thus far.

How bout this, forget all the bullshit, and get some runners home from third with less than two outs.

I'm interested in winning the division, not playin' with my jimmie if they go 2-5 on the trip cause it reflects well with their history.

This team got no hit, swept at home by the White Sox, were incredibly lucky not to get swept at home by the Royals. WE play 7 in boston and Texas...2 of the 3 best teams in the AL. WE just went 1-4 against the Bad Sox team and the Royals...worst in AL. 2-5 would be an astounding accomplishment. AS many have said with the trade it is about 2012 and 2013. We're not in it this year.

scrambler wrote:We're having a good road trip so far. 7 at Boston and Texas, I said earlier I'd be happy with 2-5 based on our history. At 1-2 we're ahead of the curve. 3-4 would be almost unachievable.

If you're a loser than you're having a good road trip thus far.

How bout this, forget all the bullshit, and get some runners home from third with less than two outs.

I'm interested in winning the division, not playin' with my jimmie if they go 2-5 on the trip cause it reflects well with their history.

This is a bad baseball team. Period. End of story. Thinking we're going 6-1 or 5-2 on this trip is simply insane people thinking Ubaldo Jimenez is some magical spell straight from Harry Potter or something. This team has been free falling with the exception of 3 good series' against the D-Backs, Reds and Yankees since mid May.

Well, as the years 2006 and 2008 have taught us, there are no certainties when it comes to "waiting for next year." Yes, we control Ubaldo through 2013, but where is the outfield hitting going to come from? I see no legit outfielders in our minor league system at all. Whether you want to admit or not, we ARE in it this year.And while I think Detroit is the better team, there is no way to say 4 games out, with 12 left against Detroit is NOT in it.

leadpipe wrote:...How bout this, forget all the bullshit, and get some runners home from third with less than two outs...

Less than two outs - pshaw! ZERO outs. They had to get Haf home when he was on base and there was NO ONE out. THAT was the deciding point in the game...and I said so upthread. Can I read this team or what??? Not really, just a very educated guess.

Symbolic47 wrote:God this has been the worst fun season in history

^this^

I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.~~~Annie Savoy-"Bull Durham"

Symbolic47 wrote:Bad team? I think you need to re evaluate your baseball knowledge. They are struggling, but this is not a bad team. They are the second youngest team in the majors, but I guess they just suck.

This team was 31-15. If I'm not mistaken they are now 54-54. They have gone 23-39 their last 62 games. That is not a small sample size my friend. That is simply a bad baseball team. I wish it weren't true but those are simply facts. Facts are what they are. Facts. 23-39 is a long time of very, very bad baseball. You can't argue or even dispute that. Yes, injuries have been a factor Doesn't matter. So you can see injuries have made this a bad baseball team. Fine. It's still a bad baseball team.

Yet they are somehow still in this. The division helps, but this is a VERY talented roster, with ALOT of growing up and maturing to do. Saying they just suck is incredibly ignorant imo.

I never used the word suck at any point any time ever in my life. I'm not a fan of that word. They are a bad baseball team right now. And for all the reasons you just listed....very young, bad seasons from key players and multiple injuries. I agree with all of that. They have lots of talented players, but to me teh 23-39 in their last 62 is quite telling. To me that tells the story, that's a much larger sample size than the 31-15 start to the season, at that point they were very good and perhaps a bit lucky. Perhaps there is some bad luck involved with the 23-39 since then but I don't think it matters. I feel luck evens out. They've won a multitude of games with walk offs as Boston won tonight and last night. I hope they win the division, I look at the end of August and think man they should roll those games but they just played the Royals at home and hardly rolled.

scrambler wrote:We're having a good road trip so far. 7 at Boston and Texas, I said earlier I'd be happy with 2-5 based on our history. At 1-2 we're ahead of the curve. 3-4 would be almost unachievable.

If you're a loser than you're having a good road trip thus far.

How bout this, forget all the bullshit, and get some runners home from third with less than two outs.

I'm interested in winning the division, not playin' with my jimmie if they go 2-5 on the trip cause it reflects well with their history.

This is a bad baseball team. Period. End of story. Thinking we're going 6-1 or 5-2 on this trip is simply insane people thinking Ubaldo Jimenez is some magical spell straight from Harry Potter or something. This team has been free falling with the exception of 3 good series' against the D-Backs, Reds and Yankees since mid May.

Bad team. Good enough to win tonight's game doing things a minor league team should be able to do.

Stop assuming that everyone that doesn't think exactly like you believes the Tribe should be hundred game winners.

And even a shitty team should not be happy with a 2-5 trip - which was the point of my post - the one that you condescendingly tried to turn into your lesson to me on baseball. Which I assure you I don't need.

scrambler wrote:We're having a good road trip so far. 7 at Boston and Texas, I said earlier I'd be happy with 2-5 based on our history. At 1-2 we're ahead of the curve. 3-4 would be almost unachievable.

If you're a loser than you're having a good road trip thus far.

How bout this, forget all the bullshit, and get some runners home from third with less than two outs.

I'm interested in winning the division, not playin' with my jimmie if they go 2-5 on the trip cause it reflects well with their history.

This is a bad baseball team. Period. End of story. Thinking we're going 6-1 or 5-2 on this trip is simply insane people thinking Ubaldo Jimenez is some magical spell straight from Harry Potter or something. This team has been free falling with the exception of 3 good series' against the D-Backs, Reds and Yankees since mid May.

Bad team. Good enough to win tonight's game doing things a minor league team should be able to do.

Stop assuming that everyone that doesn't think exactly like you believes the Tribe should be hundred game winners.

And even a shitty team should not be happy with a 2-5 trip - which was the point of my post - the one that you condescendingly tried to turn into your lesson to me on baseball. Which I assure you I don't need.

I dont' give anyone lessons on baseball. I just state my opinions which are likely wrong very often. If people want to take them as lessons fine. I simply feel a team that is 23-39 their last 62 games is not very good. I think that was my only point. They are playing two pretty good teams on this road trip. I hope they prove me wrong. I was wrong about lots of things tonight too.

scrambler, a history lesson reminds me that you declared in your 14thish post on the Cavs forum you were here to teach people on the Indians board (this was posted on the Cavs board). Now I think you are a sharp guy and I enjoy reading you, but that mentality has carried condescending into the tone of your words. I'm a condescending asshole but I mean to be and if I am going that route I usually have mucho evidence that supports my position. If you don't mean to be you need to consider tone of the written word and just how hard it is to interpret.

Lead is right in that this team had a chance to take a step in the last two nights and failed. You don't need to preach big picture about that. Lead is not Spin or any of the other idiots.

IOW: I know you are new to this explaining yourself on message board stupidity (which is dying), but you do come across w/ a certain demeanor. I mean to go the road I plow because I find it hilarious. Don't know if you do.

There is a lot of facetiousness in my stating I'd be happy with a 2-5 road trip. I guess I should explain that first I guess, but if I do that it's too obvious and it's just silly. We have not played well in Texas or Boston to my knowledge recently. Maybe I'm wrong. I would not have been shocked to see the April/May version of this year's team go 1-6 or 2-5 on that given trip. Based on the events of the Angel/White Sox/Royal series' back to back to back I thought the statement of a 2-5 road trip as being great and the silliness of it was obvous but in essence it would have been better than our 2-6 homestand just completed against 2 of the 3 being pretty bad teams. So, I'm stating basically that 2-5 against very good REd Sox and Ranger teams on the road though seeming bad is much better than what we just did...get it????

^ what I was talking about re: the written expression not translating well v. the spoken expression. Trying to help you old man (maybe you should consider using emoticons, that bald freak Peeker had to go that route)

e0y2e3 wrote:scrambler, a history lesson reminds me that you declared in your 14thish post on the Cavs forum you were here to teach people on the Indians board (this was posted on the Cavs board). Now I think you are a sharp guy and I enjoy reading you, but that mentality has carried condescending into the tone of your words. I'm a condescending asshole but I mean to be and if I am going that route I usually have mucho evidence that supports my position. If you don't mean to be you need to consider tone of the written word and just how hard it is to interpret.

Lead is right in that this team had a chance to take a step in the last two nights and failed. You don't need to preach big picture about that. Lead is not Spin or any of the other idiots.

IOW: I know you are new to this explaining yourself on message board stupidity (which is dying), but you do come across w/ a certain demeanor. I mean to go the road I plow because I find it hilarious. Don't know if you do.

Well tonight, I finally looked and saw how long this team has been falling off a cliff, and I figured out what their record was since their peak. My goal tonight was to state they are playing very bad baseball and have been for a very long time (over two months). I guess I don't care if I have become condescending is my final answer. Condensation rules. And I do dare anyone to tell me that 2-5 in TExas and Boston isn't better than 2-6 at home against Angels/White Sox/Royals. That is simply how bad we are playing right now, where a 2-5 road trip is actually an improvement.

At least the games are competitive. It sucks beyond belief that they are losing and lost these last 2 games but at least they are 1 run losses and they are not completely embarrasing themselves. Unfortunately close losses are still losses. But at least it gives some hope that they can still turn it around.........

Scrambler I am not piling on and sometimes you make stupid points and good ones as do I. Nonetheless, being happy with 2 wins (or whatever) vs. Texas and Boston is going to eliminate us from the race. I can't be happy with that. I'll be happy with a split vs. Boston and 2/3 @ Texas. That's happiness. Winning one in Arlington will only further my frustration.

We're 4 games out in August. The only thing I can take comfort in is remembering that '01 season and being about 5 back of the Twins at one point. The only problem is that was a team chock full of vets in Alomar, Thome, Vizquel, Gonzalez, Lofton, Cordova, Burks, Cordero, Finley, Colon's prime, Wickman, Fryman...Jesus we might have been the oldest team in baseball. Alas, a year later we were playing nursing home baseball after that hugely hot start. This team is very far from that team maturation wise, but talent-wise and in relative terms to the talent in the division, they're still very much in this. Alas, the White Sox are still somewhat in it and they've played worse than we have. What Adam Dunn has done (or not done) would be comparable to Jimenez going 1-4 in his first 5 starts with a 10.00 ERA. And Detroit is pulling a '97 Cleveland. They're a potential 100 win team with all that offense and they have been BIG TIME underachivers. We're 4 GB of them - worst point of entire season - and we have a quarter of the primed talent they have. Cebrera, V Mart, Ordonez, Guillen, Verlander, Avilla and they're playing slightly above .500 ball? That's pretty terrible results. The Twins have had injuries and a bad start. The Tigers have had moderate injuries and have just been plain average when Verlander doesn't pitch. So, we have to feel good there. We're in a race with a team that is closer to NYY and Boston's talent level than ours. If we lose to them, we do so becuse they're better. If they lose to us, it would be similar to the Diamondbacks beating out the Giants.

And bad? Bad is a horrible blanket statement. This team is bad with getting runners over and in. This team is a bad contact hitting team. This team has bad moments. This team played BAD from May 24 to June 11. And now they're doing that after the break. This team has a good rotation, a good bullpen, and good young hitters. The bad in this team is that they fooled the league and won 30 of 45 and they did it with Hannahan, Uncle Orly, and Sloth or Buck or kearns playing every day. Those five guys should be the ones we do not ask back next year, with Uncle already being ousted. Those players are the ones who cannot play good baseball for an entire duration and I am talking beyond just a Santana-like slump. I'd consider keeping Manahan around just for late-inning defense. It's bad that we played better with a worser lineup than what we have now. Also, Boston and Detroit were both swept by us in April. Now, sweeping either just isn't possible for the most part. So the overall BAD is a culmination of other teams playing bad and making us look good. We're a very talented, young, fun, but slightly ignorant and passive squad. There is still a bit of Wedge still in this team. The rotation has been opposite, but the hitters are still full of Blakes and Boones and bad Peraltas. I still get the Wedge vibe anyway. What's BAD has been the way we, myself at the forefront, have felt about this team's expectations based on a hot first two months. It's made me believe more than I should and I cannot enjoy the season. I mean Christ did we not see it on opening day? Maybe not, considering we got 10 runs when all was said and done.

I love this team and it may have been better had we played .500 in April and May, but they didn't and that's because there is SOMETHING special in them. The injuries have been as bad as they've been in a long time. I still forget that and just want to win and maybe I am being unrealistic. I just wanna get to October. I don't care if we go 3 and done in ALDS. I just want to win the Central. It can only do good things for us. That's the irrational fan in me and that is also bad. This young team, though, is not bad. If they can stay together with this core for 2 more years, I would not be surprised to see a 100 win season with two 20 games winners in Masterson and Jimenez; two 30 HR guys in Santana and LaPorta; and two MVP candidates in Asdrubal and Choo. I need more patience than anyone, but as pissed as I am about tonight and post May 23rd, I think we have a GOOD team and love them much. There's just some major wrinkles to be ironed and it could be any day now that we get them smoothed.

Sorry for rambling...just feel very connected to this team right now like many of you do, too. It's like I am standing up for my brilliant son who has a speech impediment. I know what's there and despise what others see instead. In the end, unconditional love prevails. Yeah, I just compared a pro sports franchise to a child with autism. :hides:

TribeinLA wrote:Scrambler I am not piling on and sometimes you make stupid points and good ones as do I. Nonetheless, being happy with 2 wins (or whatever) vs. Texas and Boston is going to eliminate us from the race. I can't be happy with that. I'll be happy with a split vs. Boston and 2/3 @ Texas. That's happiness. Winning one in Arlington will only further my frustration.

We're 4 games out in August. The only thing I can take comfort in is remembering that '01 season and being about 5 back of the Twins at one point. The only problem is that was a team chock full of vets in Alomar, Thome, Vizquel, Gonzalez, Lofton, Cordova, Burks, Cordero, Finley, Colon's prime, Wickman, Fryman...Jesus we might have been the oldest team in baseball. Alas, a year later we were playing nursing home baseball after that hugely hot start. This team is very far from that team maturation wise, but talent-wise and in relative terms to the talent in the division, they're still very much in this. Alas, the White Sox are still somewhat in it and they've played worse than we have. What Adam Dunn has done (or not done) would be comparable to Jimenez going 1-4 in his first 5 starts with a 10.00 ERA. And Detroit is pulling a '97 Cleveland. They're a potential 100 win team with all that offense and they have been BIG TIME underachivers. We're 4 GB of them - worst point of entire season - and we have a quarter of the primed talent they have. Cebrera, V Mart, Ordonez, Guillen, Verlander, Avilla and they're playing slightly above .500 ball? That's pretty terrible results. The Twins have had injuries and a bad start. The Tigers have had moderate injuries and have just been plain average when Verlander doesn't pitch. So, we have to feel good there. We're in a race with a team that is closer to NYY and Boston's talent level than ours. If we lose to them, we do so becuse they're better. If they lose to us, it would be similar to the Diamondbacks beating out the Giants.

And bad? Bad is a horrible blanket statement. This team is bad with getting runners over and in. This team is a bad contact hitting team. This team has bad moments. This team played BAD from May 24 to June 11. And now they're doing that after the break. This team has a good rotation, a good bullpen, and good young hitters. The bad in this team is that they fooled the league and won 30 of 45 and they did it with Hannahan, Uncle Orly, and Sloth or Buck or kearns playing every day. Those five guys should be the ones we do not ask back next year, with Uncle already being ousted. Those players are the ones who cannot play good baseball for an entire duration and I am talking beyond just a Santana-like slump. I'd consider keeping Manahan around just for late-inning defense. It's bad that we played better with a worser lineup than what we have now. Also, Boston and Detroit were both swept by us in April. Now, sweeping either just isn't possible for the most part. So the overall BAD is a culmination of other teams playing bad and making us look good. We're a very talented, young, fun, but slightly ignorant and passive squad. There is still a bit of Wedge still in this team. The rotation has been opposite, but the hitters are still full of Blakes and Boones and bad Peraltas. I still get the Wedge vibe anyway. What's BAD has been the way we, myself at the forefront, have felt about this team's expectations based on a hot first two months. It's made me believe more than I should and I cannot enjoy the season. I mean Christ did we not see it on opening day? Maybe not, considering we got 10 runs when all was said and done.

I love this team and it may have been better had we played .500 in April and May, but they didn't and that's because there is SOMETHING special in them. The injuries have been as bad as they've been in a long time. I still forget that and just want to win and maybe I am being unrealistic. I just wanna get to October. I don't care if we go 3 and done in ALDS. I just want to win the Central. It can only do good things for us. That's the irrational fan in me and that is also bad. This young team, though, is not bad. If they can stay together with this core for 2 more years, I would not be surprised to see a 100 win season with two 20 games winners in Masterson and Jimenez; two 30 HR guys in Santana and LaPorta; and two MVP candidates in Asdrubal and Choo. I need more patience than anyone, but as pissed as I am about tonight and post May 23rd, I think we have a GOOD team and love them much. There's just some major wrinkles to be ironed and it could be any day now that we get them smoothed.

Sorry for rambling...just feel very connected to this team right now like many of you do, too. It's like I am standing up for my brilliant son who has a speech impediment. I know what's there and despise what others see instead. In the end, unconditional love prevails. Yeah, I just compared a pro sports franchise to a child with autism. :hides:

e0y2e3 wrote:scrambler, a history lesson reminds me that you declared in your 14thish post on the Cavs forum you were here to teach people on the Indians board (this was posted on the Cavs board). Now I think you are a sharp guy and I enjoy reading you, but that mentality has carried condescending into the tone of your words. I'm a condescending asshole but I mean to be and if I am going that route I usually have mucho evidence that supports my position. If you don't mean to be you need to consider tone of the written word and just how hard it is to interpret.

Lead is right in that this team had a chance to take a step in the last two nights and failed. You don't need to preach big picture about that. Lead is not Spin or any of the other idiots.

IOW: I know you are new to this explaining yourself on message board stupidity (which is dying), but you do come across w/ a certain demeanor. I mean to go the road I plow because I find it hilarious. Don't know if you do.

Well tonight, I finally looked and saw how long this team has been falling off a cliff, and I figured out what their record was since their peak. My goal tonight was to state they are playing very bad baseball and have been for a very long time (over two months). I guess I don't care if I have become condescending is my final answer. Condensation rules. And I do dare anyone to tell me that 2-5 in TExas and Boston isn't better than 2-6 at home against Angels/White Sox/Royals. That is simply how bad we are playing right now, where a 2-5 road trip is actually an improvement.

This isn't CLOSE to what was stated at the beginning of the thread.

Then you try to mask your post's stupidity under the guise of "Facetiousness"

And finally you wrap it by drawing the conclusion that tonight you figured out that the Tribe hasn't been playing well of late.

If they win tonight, I'm still happy with this series. If they don't, there's no such thing as a moral victory when you started 30-15 and would now be under .500. That takes epic failure on a lot of levels.

Yes, they played right with a far superior team. You can be happy about that if you want to. It's still about winning games. Not about being in them.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:If they win tonight, I'm still happy with this series. If they don't, there's no such thing as a moral victory when you started 30-15 and would now be under .500. That takes epic failure on a lot of levels.

Yes, they played right with a far superior team. You can be happy about that if you want to. It's still about winning games. Not about being in them.

e0y2e3 wrote:scrambler, a history lesson reminds me that you declared in your 14thish post on the Cavs forum you were here to teach people on the Indians board (this was posted on the Cavs board). Now I think you are a sharp guy and I enjoy reading you, but that mentality has carried condescending into the tone of your words. I'm a condescending asshole but I mean to be and if I am going that route I usually have mucho evidence that supports my position. If you don't mean to be you need to consider tone of the written word and just how hard it is to interpret.

Lead is right in that this team had a chance to take a step in the last two nights and failed. You don't need to preach big picture about that. Lead is not Spin or any of the other idiots.

IOW: I know you are new to this explaining yourself on message board stupidity (which is dying), but you do come across w/ a certain demeanor. I mean to go the road I plow because I find it hilarious. Don't know if you do.

Well tonight, I finally looked and saw how long this team has been falling off a cliff, and I figured out what their record was since their peak. My goal tonight was to state they are playing very bad baseball and have been for a very long time (over two months). I guess I don't care if I have become condescending is my final answer. Condensation rules. And I do dare anyone to tell me that 2-5 in TExas and Boston isn't better than 2-6 at home against Angels/White Sox/Royals. That is simply how bad we are playing right now, where a 2-5 road trip is actually an improvement.

This isn't CLOSE to what was stated at the beginning of the thread.

Then you try to mask your post's stupidity under the guise of "Facetiousness"

And finally you wrap it by drawing the conclusion that tonight you figured out that the Tribe hasn't been playing well of late.

Great series of posts.

Preach on Lead Man.

This team has not played good baseball on a consistant basis since mid-May. Duh.

The only reason that they are in the position they are (4 games back with 2 months left) is that they got off to a 30-15 start that included a number of wins that could of gone either way and fell their way. Duh.

They have played crappy, crappy baseball since then punctuated by some spectaular shit-tastic pitching (thank you Fausto and Carlos), less than brilliant fielding perfromances (Santana, Cord Phelps, Luis Val-mala) and their inane ability to not score runs with runners in scoring position and zero outs. Duh.

Did I expect them to lose 90 games this year? Yes.

Would it be a pleasant surprise if they finished close to .500? Yes.

Does it mean I would accept blowing a great start in the fashion outlined above when they had plenty of chances to win "winable" games and could take a division that no one seems to want to claim outright? F no.

However, they are still only 4 games back with almost 2 months to play. 2-5 is not an improvement over 2-6 as it is still the same crap baseball and they are still losing in the same mind-numbing, scrotum-crushing fashion. It doesn't matter if its home, away or played in Qatar.

They have had chances to win series versus Baltimore, KC and now Boston and they have blown them all in the same way. There is no improvement. I don't give a crap who they are playing, where they are playing or the injuries. They still have had multiple chances to win these series and have pissed it down their leg.

You can say that you don't expect them to go better than 2-5 but it is in no way shape or form an improvement.

This team is either going to nut up tonight, in Texas and versus the Tigers or wither up and die.

The only improvement is nutting up and being 2 games back or less after the Tigers series.