Welcome to HVAC-Talk.com, a non-DIY site and the ultimate Source for HVAC Information & Knowledge Sharing for the industry professional! Here you can join over 150,000 HVAC Professionals & enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to HVAC/R. You are currently viewing as a NON-REGISTERED guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register; for a free account. As a registered Guest you will be able to:

Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts.

"Green Illusions is an environmental book that pioneers a critique of clean energy, arguing that concerned citizens should instead focus on walkable communities, improved consumption, governance, and most notably, women’s rights. Learn about the unseen harms of solar cells. Uncover why future environmentalists will resist electric cars and hybrids. And, learn what future environmentalists are studying in college today."

Interesting presentation, I watched a documentary about the big grand coulee dam blocking salmon migrations. Turns out the nitrogen the salmon provided to the mountains via the food chain kept the mountains intact from root growth, so it then became a necessity to fertilize the mountains. This video further supports my thoughts that electric production will have its costs no mater what.

Well,, I pay $16.25 a month for my net meter and after 10 months I have produced $1120.00 in free electric

How much do you get payed per kwh? Is it the market rate or are there subsidies down there? (meaning it's done at the expense of others )

Financially there might be a good reason to go solar in some cases. Solar I'm sure also has some great practical applications - especially in rural areas where connecting to the grid is very expensive.

But the notion that putting up panels can "save the planet" by "replacing coal" is just total nonsense. $ for $, conservation/efficiency/lifestyle changes are the way to go - that's what the presentation was getting at.

Large scale distribution of solar and wind power is a complete boondoggle.

Originally Posted by kangaroogod

Well,, I pay $16.25 a month for my net meter and after 10 months I have produced $1120.00 in free electric

No, you have produced $0 in "free" electricity.
The solar installation cost money.
It won't be producing "free" electricity until it has produced enough to cover all costs of the installation and maintenance of the system.
Not just your cost, but also the portion of the cost that was paid by incentive and rebate programs, including subsidies for buyback above market rates.
Once that is all covered, it will be producing "free" electricity.

The reality is that the day the system starts producing truly "free" electricity will never come, because the payoff time for the total cost is much greater than even the most optimistic life span of the equipment.

Large scale distribution of solar and wind power is a complete boondoggle.

No, you have produced $0 in "free" electricity.
The solar installation cost money.
It won't be producing "free" electricity until it has produced enough to cover all costs of the installation and maintenance of the system.
Not just your cost, but also the portion of the cost that was paid by incentive and rebate programs, including subsidies for buyback above market rates.
Once that is all covered, it will be producing "free" electricity.

The reality is that the day the system starts producing truly "free" electricity will never come, because the payoff time for the total cost is much greater than even the most optimistic life span of the equipment.

I agree...there are no free lunches. It doesn't matter if it's "green" eggs and ham, or just plain old eggs and ham...sometimes I get frustrated trying to expose the untruths in the "payback/conservation" mindset.

The expectations of people living in modern, developed, metropolitan areas is just out of touch with the reality of what it truly means to be eco-friendly.

Being a good steward of the environment is actually very simple, it just requires you to sacrifice every modern convince you have grown up with...

How much do you get payed per kwh? Is it the market rate or are there subsidies down there? (meaning it's done at the expense of others )

Financially there might be a good reason to go solar in some cases. Solar I'm sure also has some great practical applications - especially in rural areas where connecting to the grid is very expensive.

But the notion that putting up panels can "save the planet" by "replacing coal" is just total nonsense. $ for $, conservation/efficiency/lifestyle changes are the way to go - that's what the presentation was getting at.

quite right, It's like the guy said, "we don't have an energy supply problem, we have an energy consumption problem"

If everyone in the country just made there homes and businesses more efficient we wouldn't need more power plants.

My weekend cabin in the Adirondacks is off grid. I have 120watts of solar panels powering the place. They charge two 6v batteries (in series=12v out) through a 10amp charge controller and a 1500watt inverter. They run the water pump, macerator and all the lights (Compact florescent bulbs), the refer is propane. I use a diesel generator to run the hot water tank. The generator, Listor SR-2, single cylinder--4000watt will run about 4 hours on a gallon of fuel. In two years I have used 22 gallons.

This year I plan on adding a 45amp charge controller and another 435watts of solar panels. Im going to add two more 6v batteries (total of 4 in series/parallel)

I have a net meter so I bank negative kw. At the end of the year (5/1) I will get a final read and get a check for any negative kw (extra energy I put to the grid) at roughy 1/3 of my $.11 per kw. If at any time the meter is read at it goes above 0 I will get a usage charge as normal.
NYS has an incentive program that pays roughy 1/3 of the installed cost directly to the installer. In addition I receive a $5000 state tax credit and 30% federal tax credit based in tax liability for the year and and excess is carried through 2016.
At this time NYS does an incentive and does not use SREC (solar renewable energy credits) which are essentially carbon offsets such as NJ and other states do. Those states use SREC's which give a commodity price if roughly $200-650 per 1000kw production which would be $1500-4000 per year in my case. It may go that way in the future. NYS owns my SREC's for 3 years I believe as part of the incentive I received.. The days are getting longer and I should be zero for the year or a little surplus. Per the incentive I cannot install a system larger than 110% of my load for the last 12 months as they do not want people "making money"
My payback after incentives and interest is &lt;2 years but it IS NOT feasible without incentives or my payback would be around 25yrs.

The bottom line is that it cost mega amounts of money to upgrade infrastructure and politicians determined that point if use production is one way to help. The 1/3 incentive comes directly from a fund that is psi for by a fee everyone pays into on there gas and electric bill. The $5000 comes from the good citizens of nys and the 30% comes from the good citizens of the USA. (Thank you everyone for your contribution!)

I do not see this as anything different than the $650 incentive that is provided to people for installing 95%vs furnaces. It is there to entice people to be more energy conscious, lower usage and strain on infrastructure and change people's thinking on energy usage. Ironically I have installed led lighting and been more energy conscious because I want to be zero.
If I can figure out how to add photos I will add them.

I have a net meter so I bank negative kw. At the end of the year (5/1) I will get a final read and get a check for any negative kw (extra energy I put to the grid) at roughy 1/3 of my $.11 per kw. If at any time the meter is read at it goes above 0 I will get a usage charge as normal.
NYS has an incentive program that pays roughy 1/3 of the installed cost directly to the installer. In addition I receive a $5000 state tax credit and 30% federal tax credit based in tax liability for the year and and excess is carried through 2016.
At this time NYS does an incentive and does not use SREC (solar renewable energy credits) which are essentially carbon offsets such as NJ and other states do. Those states use SREC's which give a commodity price if roughly $200-650 per 1000kw production which would be $1500-4000 per year in my case. It may go that way in the future. NYS owns my SREC's for 3 years I believe as part of the incentive I received.. The days are getting longer and I should be zero for the year or a little surplus. Per the incentive I cannot install a system larger than 110% of my load for the last 12 months as they do not want people "making money"
My payback after incentives and interest is <2 years but it IS NOT feasible without incentives or my payback would be around 25yrs.

The bottom line is that it cost mega amounts of money to upgrade infrastructure and politicians determined that point if use production is one way to help. The 1/3 incentive comes directly from a fund that is psi for by a fee everyone pays into on there gas and electric bill. The $5000 comes from the good citizens of nys and the 30% comes from the good citizens of the USA. (Thank you everyone for your contribution!)

I do not see this as anything different than the $650 incentive that is provided to people for installing 95%vs furnaces. It is there to entice people to be more energy conscious, lower usage and strain on infrastructure and change people's thinking on energy usage. Ironically I have installed led lighting and been more energy conscious because I want to be zero.
If I can figure out how to add photos I will add them.

so you have a grid tie system? Can I ask the initial cost? and if there is a power outage, you are without power like everyone else, right. Or do you have battery back up.

I am grid tied. If the power goes out the solar shuts down and my generac standby runs as needed. The cost was approximate $27,000 - $11,500nyserda - $8100 federal credit - $5000 state credit. 5yr bumper to bumper warranty.

I am grid tied. If the power goes out the solar shuts down and my generac standby runs as needed. The cost was approximate $27,000 - $11,500nyserda - $8100 federal credit - $5000 state credit. 5yr bumper to bumper warranty.