This sort of thing is found in all types of graduates right now (not only law students). The New York Times reported a few months ago that debt for students rose past credit card debt in America, breaching trillions of dollars. Students are borrowing more money and getting jobs that pay less. It's not right and we should do more to help our future leaders out. For those who get the jobs they need, regardless of the pay, the Orlando lawyers at Coye Law work to fight for their employee rights.

12:21 pm July 6, 2011

Adolf Cheney wrote:

Undergrad degree $100,000. Law school degree 200,000. total cost about 300k. Return on investment will be 300k/60 after about 5 years. Considering most people work for 30 years, law school will be profitable after the 5th year of working. 60k still is alot higher than what these people would earn without a law degree working at a restuarant or taxi driver. (My PV calculation is utter garbage)

1:13 pm July 6, 2011

Anon wrote:

Economists call this Supply and Demand.

1:14 pm July 6, 2011

Concerned wrote:

What's alarming is that law school's are run by the legal community. Lawyers, judges, and professors have done nothing to help their profession. Why doesn't the legal community lift a finger to address the outrageous cost of law school? Why do law professors require students to buy $200 books? Why would a member of the legal community want all of its new associates to enter into low-paying jobs and be burdened with a mountain of debt? That sounds damaging to the legal profession. If lawyers, judges, and professors are helpless to make some changes, then who can?

1:39 pm July 6, 2011

unsurprised wrote:

Concerned wrote: "If lawyers, judges, and professors are helpless to make some changes, then who can?"

Good point. If these are the same people responsible for the rule of law, it doesn't take a genius to see society has major problems.

1:53 pm July 6, 2011

Anon wrote:

200K for law school seems high. Even at an average of 40K for three years for tuition and a generous living allowance of 20K per year for expenses only puts you at 180K. That's ignoring any money earned during law school to offset expenses.

2:49 pm July 6, 2011

Kat wrote:

I heard some similar statements the other day while speaking with my lawyer columbia sc ... it is just a testament to how bad the economy is that not even law graduates can find jobs after graduation.

3:36 pm July 6, 2011

Concerned wrote:

What do professors make? If a law school admits 150 per year, it has 450 students at a time. It tuition is $30,000 per student each year, then the school makes $13,500,000 per year from tuition. That's a large number. Why aren't there reports of law professors struggling during the recession? How's their income?

4:23 pm July 6, 2011

Tort Reform wrote:

What a wonderfully fun fact!

4:27 pm July 6, 2011

Anonymous wrote:

@Adolf Cheney:

You failed your economics course. Consider: College graduate with $100k in debt obtains federal government job with $35k in starting salary. Lets assume (and this is a conservative assumption since most fed jobs have non competitive grade increases for first few years) that the wages are constant.

Over the first 9 years out of college, this graduate makes $315k less their $100k in debt for a pre-tax net of $215k.

If this college graduate instead went to law school and incurred $200k in additional debt while foregoing any income from the federal job, that same person would have $360k in earnings less their $300k in debt for a 9-year pre-tax net of $60k.

Over the longer haul, it may make sense. But you're really underselling the downside. You MUST incorporate wages that would be earned if the person does not go to law school in any assessment.

Looking at it in slightly different terms, since the college is constant in my scenario, the law student gives up $105k in wages to incurr $200k extra debt. Thats a $305k decision. That's over 5 years of wages at the $60k per year job - and since you have to pay for housing, food, etc., its more likely that you take much, much longer to repay.

6:56 pm July 6, 2011

UC Irvine wrote:

UC Irvine will save us! Praise Chemerinsky!

Although they started their new school knowing the market for lawyers was headed for certain doom....

Though a report showed that the law school would be a waste of taxpayer dollars, and was not needed at all, UC Irvine charged forward!

Good thing they are committed to keeping tuition low so their graduates can do public interest, oh wait, Damn that California deficit, looks like tuition will be the same as more established private schools in the area...

This is just one example of the lunacy going on, there are many many other.

There is a major, major story here, about fraud and a resulting bubble, and these law school administrators and faculty are the perpetrators.

7:25 pm July 6, 2011

Adolf Cheney wrote:

@ anonymous- did you miss the part where I said my analysis was "utter garbage"?

7:27 pm July 6, 2011

Adolf Cheney wrote:

"200K for law school seems high. Even at an average of 40K for three years for tuition and a generous living allowance of 20K per year for expenses only puts you at 180K. That’s ignoring any money earned during law school to offset expenses."

-don't forget to include the interest accrued on non-subsidized loans while in school deferment, bar study loan of 10-15k, and of course, the well deserved post-bar vacation to Costa Rica.

9:54 pm July 6, 2011

Do not go to law school. wrote:

I have been a practicing attornney for 21 years and currently uneremployed/unemployed. I have networked and sent out hundreds of resumes. My US Senator told me that for each federal attorney job, they receive over 4,000 applications. i was told that on average, that local open attorney positions receive between 400-1200 applicants for each local position. Even when you do network, guys refuse to help because they don't want the competition. I know guys who a much more skilled and attended top ten schools will barely make $40K this year.

9:48 am July 7, 2011

Anonymous wrote:

@Adolf Cheney

No, I only saw the part where you talked about your present value calculation being utter garbage. You are correct though: Present value is the least of the problems with your entire analysis.

7:56 am July 8, 2011

taxiglobal.blogspot.com wrote:

To have the wages of the new law grads lowered compared to previous years is not new in Europe. The thing is that at Law Schools, professors do not warn the students about what the real scenario is. They prefer instead, to show their successes in their professional life. Professionals related to law should be the ones warning the difficulties of the sector to the new students, in order to get only law students that really want advocacy as their role in the professional life.

3:00 pm July 8, 2011

Anon wrote:

I do not understand why anyone goes to law school these days. It just isn't worth the investment anymore.

12:04 am July 9, 2011

James wrote:

This is GREAT news. We need far fewer lawyers in this country.

7:30 am July 18, 2012

Michelle wrote:

Hi everyone,
I believe this law schools are good for all people,I also believe you should understand both the benefits and consequences of attending an this law school before making the important decision of whether to enroll.Law schools of UAE probably the closest thing to the best law school internationally. A good indication of this is how many foreign students each attracts.

Law schools of UAE all very well respected in law within their regions

About Law Blog

The Law Blog covers the legal arena’s hot cases, emerging trends and big personalities. It’s brought to you by lead writer Jacob Gershman with contributions from across The Wall Street Journal’s staff. Jacob comes here after more than half a decade covering the bare-knuckle politics of New York State. His inside-the-room reporting left him steeped in legal and regulatory issues that continue to grab headlines.

A federal judge in Manhattan rejected a bid by the conservative advocacy group Citizens United to stop New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman from requiring that charities disclose to him their major donors.

Concerns about a gender gap in the legal profession tend to focus on issues like pay, billing rates and who makes partner. A new study by the American Bar Association looks inside the federal courtroom to see who's trying cases.