Hi there Glad you have your copy working now. My server has been overloading again with all of the downloads, its rather surprised me!

I would like as much feedback on this as I can, and any "This could be better" feedback is particularly valuable. I come from a commercial and academic programming background so my philosophy is very much "program for the end user, not the programmer", (even now Im not getting paid!). I have thought that about the desktop and have thought about putting the games into a subfolder on the dektop.

With regard the abiword and gnumeric apps, they work fine this end. the pup_215.sfs file that contains these programs is the same as the one from puppy 2.15ce. I think perhaps it hasnt downloaded properly. You could could copy the 2.15ce file from a 2.15ce cd onto the hard disk next to the eco_save.2fs file which would speed up booting and make sure that it is all present and correct.

I have been doing some work on the next Ecopup on adding a splash screen for when booting from the cd for the first time (thanks to pizzasgood). Im also working on getting it to auto-grow the eco_save.2fs file when it becomes full (instead of bsoding which it does now). The other main problem is the flash9 crashing firefox. I want to create another firefox instance running hidden in the background as the flash plugin only crashes firefox when it is closed._________________Puppy Linux's Mission

Thanks jonyo for your feedback. I was thinking of setting seamonkey to use flash 7 and Firefox to use flash 9. The problem with the crashing only occurs when the last flash page or tab open is closed. I might ask on the firefox forum if someone would do an extension for me.

If the flash switcher extension (brilliant though it is to people like ourselves) we to be included, then I would have to explain what it is and what it does every time I supply someone with puppy or a puppy computer. The next thing they would ask is "why doesnt windows need this?". Then I would have to explain about closed vs open software (Thanks Adobe!). This would probably take longer than it would to install puppy in the first place!

The thing I love about puppy is that is not programmed for the programmers, but for the users._________________Puppy Linux's Mission

veronicathecow , Ive been thinking about your suggestion with the screen being cluttered. Currently were selling the ecopup computers (for just £20+ to go to the centre in operating costs of the project, Im a volunteer). Having lots of things on the desktop I think helps when people (many of whom are unemployed or single parents and only get around ten pounds per week spare for "luxuries" like internet access). Having lots of icons I think gives them the (correct) impression that there are lots of programs that come with the computer...this is another advantage of linux, it actually comes with useful things included!!

I agree with you with the "with games" part and are thinking of removing them from the desktop into a subfolder. Far too much time wasted!!!!

I actually have an idea Im going to experiment with putting light horizontal "Stripes" onto the desktop wallpaper to help identify the different types of programs. Have read somewhere this aids in recognition in rows of information._________________Puppy Linux's Mission

I do like how the highlighting bands work, and I think it will make it more understandable to new users (Yes it did take me ages to get the jpg to line up with the rox boundries). Im thinking its still missing something....perhaps a bliss background

Ive also rearranged the location of the items and put the games into three catagories (will perhaps need a launcher to deal with double click?). Ive tried to call the software what is does rather than what it is._________________Puppy Linux's Mission

Hi ecomoney, I agree it's a good idea to cluster things together (I have taught at a college and do private tutoring sometimes as well) Perhaps the most common Icons together.
Write (O.O), Firefox, Thunderbird and then groups of the most common first then less common going over to the right. People read left to right therefore if most common in a group are the first they will get to them quickest (Of course some people would do the list differently but you can make a most likely guess. Here are some rough ideas)

"I might ask on the firefox forum if someone would do an extension for me. "

Try this on an isolated drive...see what happens.
///////////////////////////
Leo-Ko

s the flash plugin.

install this, (works fine , in my firefox)

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=3147

///////////////////////////
Beynac
" I tried Leo-Ko's suggestion and it worked perfectly. "
...............

smhardesty

" I tried Leo-Ko's suggestion too and Firefox has been working fine.

Hmmmm, that was about the only problem I had with Puppy 2.17 and now that it is resolved I don't seem to have any problems to worry about. It sure is nice using an OS that does what I want, when I want, and doesn't require constant updates to itself or to additional needed software like anti-virus, anti-spyware, and firewalls. Just turn on the old PC and start working(or playing). "

Hi, I have installed the flashfix already and no joy. Until the firefox people have got it worked out I dont know what to suggest. Ive put a post on the firefox forums here if anyone wants to give it a *bump* now and again feel free because this is seriously letting the pckage down. For the moment Im planning on putting the seamonkey browser on the desktop and setting it to use Flash 7, along with firefox using flash9. I find that a lot of users appreciate the extra speed in operation and startup that seamonkey offers. Firefox is a resouce hog so this will make it easier for people on slower computers.

Im working hard on the next version of ecopup, improving the look and feel of the desktop. Im reverting back to making it look "xp"ish by default because vista has had such a bad press, but will be including the theme for "vista"ish. I would like to get it to change the desktop wallpaper with every theme change as well. Dont know how this can be done for now.

Just to report a quick bug (or better a "misconfiguration" with Graveman, currently the temporary directory it uses for preparing the cd's (under file>preferences) is set to /mnt/home/Music, when it should just be /mnt/home. I would also like to find a way of "scanning for new devices" every time the eco_save.2fs file is copied onto a new computer._________________Puppy Linux's Mission

I have been asked on another thread to clarify the installation process, there are several ways.

Method 1 (The simplest)
------------------------------

1. Unzip the file ecopup.zip to the root ("/") a disk anywhere on your computer. It can be Windows or Linux formatted. You can be running windows or booted from the livecd.

2. Restart with the CD in. Go to the instructions under "Post install config" below

3. Take the cd out, restart and the computer will boot how it used to.

This is how I set up dual boot XP/Ecopup systems, and also ubuntu, but I havnt tested it with other linuxes but I will asume it will work. Since puppy uses pup_save.2fs not eco_save.2fs as its save file name you can even do this with frugally installed puppy partitions. If you would like it to boot faster, copy pup_215.sfs and zdrv_215.sfs from the cd to the hard disk as well..

This is for making an ecopup-only computer. This is how we set up the computers that we sell from the centre.

1. Boot from the Livecd (if ecopup is already installed and you want to overwrite/refresh, type "puppy pfix=ram" when the livecd starts).

2. Start gparted by clicking on start>system>gparted

3. If the disk is already formatted, right click the partitions that are viewable and select "delete". On an old windows computer this is usually just one ntfs or fat32 partition.

4. right click on the freed up space, and select "new". It will ask for a type and ext2 is the default, which is the format you want. Advanced users can if they like only use part of the disk, keeping about 250mb at the end to create a partition of the linux-swap file type. Ecopup will automatically pick it up if its there when it boots for the first time, otherwise it will create a 100mb swap file (200mb in the next version).

5. Apply the partition changes by clicking on the drop down chevron at the end of the toolbar buttons and selecting "apply". It will ask for confirmation, say yes.

6. Making the disk bootable. Use the puppy grub bootloader config configurator just under gparted under start>system.

7. Go through the wizard, select simple install from the first screen. When it asks where to install it select "MBR (possibly unsafe)" from the choices given (its always been safe for me!). It will also ask you where to save the grub files, type "/dev/hda1" into the box if the hard disk is your primary master (which it should be, if not get your screwdriver out!).

8. The disk is now prepared to recieve ecopup. Use MUT to mount the hard disk, and the cd. I prefer copy ecopup.zip, boot.zip, pup_215.sfs and zdrv_215.sfs from the cd window to the hard disk window that was opened when you mounted the cd and the hard drive. Do this by holding ctrl and clicking on each of the files on the cd, then dragging them over to the hard disk window. This is the longest part of the process (I wish ROX had a progress bar!!!).

9. Once the files have copied, right click the existing /boot folder on the hard disk and select delete. This was created by the grub bootloader and isnt needed.

10. Replace the /boot folder with the copy thats inside the boot.zip file, this is done by clicking the boot.zip file on the hard disk. Click on "extract" and it will as "No files selected, assume to extract all", select yes.

11. Extract the ecopup.zip file to the hard disk in the same way as in 10.

12. Your done, nearly

Post configuration
----------------------

When Ecopup starts, tell it a screen resolution, it looks best at 1024x768 or bigger, with 24 bit colour depth. Some of the apps need 24 bit colour to work properly (including flash on firefox and some of the games). Its set to use the UK keyboard map so if you are not from the UK you will have to click start>setup>mouse/keyboard wizard and select a keyboard layout for your country.

If you want to play dvd's or cd's then you will also need to run start>setup>cd/dvd drive wizard and select what drives you have in the system.

If you have a cd burner, you will need to configure Graveman. Start Graveman by clicking on the "CD Burner" icon on the desktop. Select file>preferences and go to the devices tab. Click on the button "Scan again for devices". While your there, back under the "General" tab, remove the "/Music" under where it states a temporary directory, so it just reads "/mnt/home/" This is a mistake I made!

I would really like someone to make a "Install" icon that only appears runs under the livecd mode that automates these steps in the form of a script. There is already a talented programmer making a windows autoinstaller (just pop the cd into the running windowz computer and a wizard pops up, reboot leaving the cd in and ecopup comes up. That only works if windows is not balked (and a lot of the ones I am called out to are!). Being able to install easily from the "other side" would be really useful too, detecting a windows install, and not overwiriting it without asking for confirmation as I have found users need to keep their files. Luckily ecopup/puppy can be installed onto ntfs/fat without formatting!_________________Puppy Linux's Mission

I have been asked on another thread to clarify the installation process, there are several ways.

Method 1 (The simplest)
------------------------------

1. Unzip the file ecopup.zip to the root ("/") a disk anywhere on your computer. It can be Windows or Linux formatted. You can be running windows or booted from the livecd.

2. Restart with the CD in. Go to the instructions under "Post install config" below

3. Take the cd out, restart and the computer will boot how it used to.

This is how I set up dual boot XP/Ecopup systems, and also ubuntu, but I havnt tested it with other linuxes but I will asume it will work. Since puppy uses pup_save.2fs not eco_save.2fs as its save file name you can even do this with frugally installed puppy partitions. If you would like it to boot faster, copy pup_215.sfs and zdrv_215.sfs from the cd to the hard disk as well..

This is for making an ecopup-only computer. This is how we set up the computers that we sell from the centre.

1. Boot from the Livecd (if ecopup is already installed and you want to overwrite/refresh, type "puppy pfix=ram" when the livecd starts).

2. Start gparted by clicking on start>system>gparted

3. If the disk is already formatted, right click the partitions that are viewable and select "delete". On an old windows computer this is usually just one ntfs or fat32 partition.

4. right click on the freed up space, and select "new". It will ask for a type and ext2 is the default, which is the format you want. Advanced users can if they like only use part of the disk, keeping about 250mb at the end to create a partition of the linux-swap file type. Ecopup will automatically pick it up if its there when it boots for the first time, otherwise it will create a 100mb swap file (200mb in the next version).

5. Apply the partition changes by clicking on the drop down chevron at the end of the toolbar buttons and selecting "apply". It will ask for confirmation, say yes.

6. Making the disk bootable. Use the puppy grub bootloader config configurator just under gparted under start>system.

7. Go through the wizard, select simple install from the first screen. When it asks where to install it select "MBR (possibly unsafe)" from the choices given (its always been safe for me!). It will also ask you where to save the grub files, type "/dev/hda1" into the box if the hard disk is your primary master (which it should be, if not get your screwdriver out!).

8. The disk is now prepared to recieve ecopup. Use MUT to mount the hard disk, and the cd. I prefer copy ecopup.zip, boot.zip, pup_215.sfs and zdrv_215.sfs from the cd window to the hard disk window that was opened when you mounted the cd and the hard drive. Do this by holding ctrl and clicking on each of the files on the cd, then dragging them over to the hard disk window. This is the longest part of the process (I wish ROX had a progress bar!!!).

9. Once the files have copied, right click the existing /boot folder on the hard disk and select delete. This was created by the grub bootloader and isnt needed.

10. Replace the /boot folder with the copy thats inside the boot.zip file, this is done by clicking the boot.zip file on the hard disk. Click on "extract" and it will as "No files selected, assume to extract all", select yes.

11. Extract the ecopup.zip file to the hard disk in the same way as in 10.

12. Your done, nearly

Post configuration
----------------------

When Ecopup starts, tell it a screen resolution, it looks best at 1024x768 or bigger, with 24 bit colour depth. Some of the apps need 24 bit colour to work properly (including flash on firefox and some of the games). Its set to use the UK keyboard map so if you are not from the UK you will have to click start>setup>mouse/keyboard wizard and select a keyboard layout for your country.

If you want to play dvd's or cd's then you will also need to run start>setup>cd/dvd drive wizard and select what drives you have in the system.

If you have a cd burner, you will need to configure Graveman. Start Graveman by clicking on the "CD Burner" icon on the desktop. Select file>preferences and go to the devices tab. Click on the button "Scan again for devices". While your there, back under the "General" tab, remove the "/Music" under where it states a temporary directory, so it just reads "/mnt/home/" This is a mistake I made!

I would really like someone to make a "Install" icon that only appears runs under the livecd mode that automates these steps in the form of a script. There is already a talented programmer making a windows autoinstaller (just pop the cd into the running windowz computer and a wizard pops up, reboot leaving the cd in and ecopup comes up. That only works if windows is not balked (and a lot of the ones I am called out to are!). Being able to install easily from the "other side" would be really useful too, detecting a windows install, and not overwiriting it without asking for confirmation as I have found users need to keep their files. Luckily ecopup/puppy can be installed onto ntfs/fat without formatting!_________________Puppy Linux's Mission

Ecomoney: have you looked at Lighthouse Puppy? TazOC seems to have resolved the Flash problem you've cited in his variant - Flash9 works fine in Firefox, SeaMonkey & Opera in Lighthouse. Perhaps he can give you some tips to help resolve your problems in EcoPuppy.
Regarding the install script: why can you not use the standard Puppy Universal Installer that's in just about every Puppy I know of?_________________Welcome to my weird, wild, wonderful, wired world!

Richard a great many thanks for setting up that server, it will make life my end considerably easier. I will do a post on my main website with a link to your site, and also update the post at the top of the page to include your mirror if I may. Let me know if you have any problems with your ISP and I can remove these links if you are going over bandwidth.

With regards the stock puppy installer, there are reports of it not working, and I also consider it to be extremely confusing for new users. 99% of people I have observed use it in only one of two ways, either using the entire computer of dual booting with windoze. The ecopup discussion seems to be split at the moment, so this information can be found on the cybercafe thread at http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=143956#143956.

Ive posted an idea of how I think that an ideal installer should be laid out. Getting this working would be a big boost to ecopup's useability. I think it would more than double the take up of the ecopup system in the local area, and would free up a lot more of my time as I wouldnt have to visit peoples homes to install ecopup for them as is currently the case. I could just give people the cd or post it in a mailshot. Is there atalented Bash coder out there? If the installer system shows promise, I will include it in the next community edition release, and report back the results to Barry who will hopefully include it in stock puppy from then on (got to love how open source works!!!!).

May thanks for the info about fixing the pesky flash9 bug. I will pm TazOC and ask him how he solved the problem with Flash. Im thinking of including opera as the default "lite" browser in ecopup alongside firefox, as it seems very popular (and also very fast!!!!). Ecopup already contains propriety software in the form of flash and skype._________________Puppy Linux's Mission

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