It really irks me how some smack so hard on Self as being a bad NCAA Tourney coach. The record says differently! I've updated some Tourney stats posted a year ago and have added information to, now for the past 14 years, the time that Self has been at Kansas, for five of the top active coaches: Self, Calipari, Coach K and Roy, plus Izzo as some consider him a great tourney coach:

Years in the Tourney the past 14 years:Self -- 14Cal -- 12 (including one year vacated by NCAA)C.K.-- 14Roy -- 13Izzo -- 14Calipari went to the NIT twice and Roy once during this time period. NITs do not reflect well upon a resume unless you're TCU. And Cal had a year vacated, again a bad reflection.

Championships won:Self -- 1Cal -- 1C.K.-- 2Roy -- 3Izzo-- 0Some say championships are what count. In this time period, three (except for Izzo) are within one of each other, with Roy stepping up to a lead of two over Self and Cal. That gives him a slight edge over the others.

The furthest each coach has gone each year in the tournament:Coach–Champs–F. 2—F. 4–E. 8–S. 16–R. 32–R. 64Self............1.........1........0.......5.......2.......3.........2Cal.............1.........2........2.......4.......1.......2.........0Coach K.....2.........0........1.......1.......5.......2.........3Roy............3.........1........1........3......3.......2..........0Izzo............0.........1........3........1......3.......3..........3(Roy@KU...0.........2........2........1......4.......5..........0 –14 years)

Another measure is how many times did a coach not make the tournament, leave the tournament during the first three rounds or make it into one of the final three rounds?

Let the record speak for itself, Self measures up well with the other four coaches. Yes, we would liked to have seen him do better. But the fans of the other teams would also like to have seen their coach/team do better. Each of these coaches have had similar equally good and bad tournaments. The bottom line--Self is NOT a bad NCAA Tourney coach when compared to these other four top notch coaches. When you throw in the season records, Self measures up even better, top # of wins, top win %, top conf. titles and 2nd in conf. tourney wins. It shows that he is a top notch coach.

Coaches with top percentage of wins for all seasons with over 550 total wins to date from official NCAA records:Rupp ........ .822 Started at KentuckyWooden .... .804 Two years at Indiana St. then UCLAWilliams ... .786 Started at Kansas Tarkanian . .784 All in non major power conferences (3)Smith ....... .776 Started at UNCCalipari .... .773 UMass, Memphis, KentuckySelf ......... .764 ORU, Tulsa, Illinois, Kansas (lst 2 rebuilders)Coach K .. .764 Five years at Army then Duke

No coach began in as big a hole as Self at ORU, a major rebuilding job as was Tulsa. Remove just his first two season, 16-38 and he would have a .798 win percentage for 3rd place to date. Playing 3 games per year for the next 10-12 years and winning at his current rate at Kansas (.827), Self would either tie Tarkanian or move slightly ahead of him. Roy and coach K percentages aren’t going to change much. Calipari’s very well could go up (three years older than Self).

Final Thoughts – Anyone willing to trade Roy’s KU record, season or tourney, with Bill’s? I wouldn’t! In spite of our tremendous basketball tradition, second to none, KU probably has a slight recruiting disadvantage with UK, UNC and Duke. This is due primarily to location. Don’t shoot me, I’m a died in the wool Kansan, but my honest opinion. Would any of the other coaches have done better at KU than Self during the season or tournament? Roy didn’t. Doubt if Cal, K and Izzo would have either. And the icing on the cake – Self is now a Hall of Fame Coach! He joins the list along with the other four we’ve been comparing. Bottom line, Self is a top notch coach and a rare jewel of a coach. We are very fortunate to have him.

Uggh. Who you trying to convince? Yourself. Everybody knows Bill is a great coach who unfortunately sucks in Elite 8 games be it bad luck...cold shooting...nerves..whatever..No need to make an essay type post to prove a needless point. Is this what happens when one gets ancient. Rambling on trying to prove already known facts.

_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Uggh. Who you trying to convince? Yourself. Everybody knows Bill is a great coach who unfortunately sucks in Elite 8 games be it bad luck...cold shooting...nerves..whatever..No need to make an essay type post to prove a needless point. Is this what happens when one gets ancient. Rambling on trying to prove already known facts.

You must spend more time on another board other than this one. I've seen numerous times different ones on this board putting down Coach Self as not being a good tournament coach. I guess your phogy brain has a tough time reading anything over five lines long. Sorry about the Indiana thing, that was just one of those things that happens to anyone trying to put something together. I know that it was Illinois and have changed it. Don't forget to take your fish oil, it might help your phogy brain.

You're the one that needs the fish oil. I am the one that caught your mistake,. And who outside of West and maybe one other complains about Bill's tournament failures around here. I know the local yokels have to pump up themselves about all things Kansas for that warm fuzzy feeling. Really outside of KU basketball the state ain't got much going on. That's why they call it flyover country. Try going on a vacation and quit obsessing about Bill's greatness. Bottom line in as far as closing the deal tournament wise. Roy owns him.

_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

God..power surge just wiped out a lengthy post. In short I actually appreciated 52's lengthy post. It was very informative. .I just don't find it necessary to validate Self's excellent coaching resume either regular season or post season.

_________________________
No more .net hate. Just here to share incredible special moments with my Jayhawk brethren.

Self has won a lot of NCAA tournament games with KU, no question. Has he underperformed against expectations? No question.

To get to an Elite Eight game, you go 3-0. If you lose, you're 3-1 obviously, so a winning percentage of .750. Yahoo. By definition, you can only lose once in a one-and-done tournament. But how many times has KU lost on or before the Elite Eight with a top 4 team (ie, a 1 seed)? Or simply just lost to a lower seed?