actually i think by most measures UW is the better university (and here i talk across the spectrum of disciplines from law to medicine to business to applied mathematics). when speaking of the law school specifically...what's a couple of points between friends (31 v. 28)? besides ND is on the drops amigo, you cannot deny a 6 point fall hurts! and yet you cannot get yourself to say "ND is not a national school" eventhough you consider every other program not in the T14 a "regional school"....oh except ND. i hope people like you never come to Wisconsin, so if you want to stay in Chi-town and be miserable that sounds fantastic...all the cold minus the skiing. we'll make fun of you when you load the family up on your rusted out honda civic (loans)covered in lame ND alumni stickers (small genitals) and make the trek up north to enjoy the scenery (FIB) only to crawl back to miserable Illinois when the weekend ends (shoot yourself now). as for passing the bar in other states, WI graduates get grandfathered into adjoining state's bars should they want to leave WI (and most do not).

Wow, this is actually starting to get kind of fun! I hope I run into opposing counsel like you when I start practicing. I'll make partner in no time!

First, why are you bringing up other disciplines? Who cares what goes on "across the spectrum." Aren't we talking about law school?

Second, yes the 6 point fall is not a wonderful thing for ND. Are you under the impression that I'm happy about this? My point is that ND is a school with a great national reputation, a terrific loyal alumni base, and with graduates at top law firms over the county. To make my argument easier, I compared ND to Wisonsin in the national market.

Third, when did I say that every school outside of the top 14 is a regional school except for ND? I believe I simply stated that Wisconsin is not a national school. Read before you respond "amigo." To explain why I won't say "ND is a regional school," please reread the above posts.

Lastly, you keep talking about all of the debt that ND students have. Yes, I will have debt. My loan payments will be about $1,200 a month. This is under $15,000 a year. The firm I will be working at just matched the local market at $145,000 a year. If I drive a rusted honda civic, it will be because I want to, not because I have to. Do you understand? What's up with you bringing up this moot point anyway? Are you on a nonacademic scholarship or something? Well, good for you. Consider yourself lucky.

Oh yeah, and everyone I know who lives in Chicago absolutely loves it!

P.S. Your sentence structures are horrendous. You should take a basic composition class before research and writing.

wow, grumpy grumpy, are you pissed GW took a drop in the ranings as well? it's funny how quickly little things like punctuation bring out the little beastie in you, you're an absolute caution! i find it hilarious you believe you can glean so much about me from a couple little missives made to bait irritable little pricks like you and whiteyemsr. i find great humor in the fact that you feel it necessary to tell everyone that you got into ND and GW (both accept roughly one in four applicants, not overly impressive is it?). hopefully this does not represent the pinnacle of achievment in your life. i love the anecdotes the both of you pour forth about people "you've met from UW" or "individuals who love Chi-town" etc but the facts remain...in terms of peer assessment (out of 5.0) GW-3.4, ND-3.3, and UW-3.5, as for assessment score by lawyers and judges (out of 5.0) GW 3.8, ND-3.8, and UW-3.7...pretty evenly matched wouldn't you say? it would follow then that if the assumption is ND grads are solid, UW grads should be as well. mind you whiteyesmr I said UW was not a national school, you merely parroted...my contention has never been that ND isn't a good school but rather that it is an overrated program (it seems the people at USNWR agree with me) and its national standing will continue to suffer as a result. the $1200 a month is huge; i argued that if you wanted to live in wisco and could go there for free (a T1 school ranked one slot-due to ties-behind ND) why would you want the debt regardless of what galley you end up apple-polishing for? i would argue that the reputation of other graduate programs has everything to do with a school's national reputation, and if you look at where UW places across the board, it is one of the top schools in the country. therefore, my dears, when you say, i went to UW, especially in professional circles (engineering, medicine, law, the humanities, education, business...i.e. in most settings) people are quite familiar with the school. john 259, way to blast 260 people you don't know (the size of this year's incoming class), you are certainly much smarter than the entire bunch. and whiteyesmr, chicago is a cool town...i know people who loved it and hated it. you will want to visit Wisco when you are there however since there is very little to do out-of-doors in Illinois. While you are slaving away to benefit some partner who secretely hates you, I would avoid the Wisconsin bashing however, UW places quite well in Chicago. john 259, as a husband and father of two kids with a good circle of friends i certainly don't care what others think of me. while i don't go out of my way to alienate people in REAL life (again dude, this is pretend world here) i certainly wouldn't mind if guys like you who need to constantly remind themselves that they are important and special, stayed away.

You are in dire need of help, so much so that you won't be able to control the urge to post a reply and use archaic words in hopes that you'll be able to raise your self-esteem high enough not to feel the urge to take another one of "daddy's special pills."

wow, grumpy grumpy, are you pissed GW took a drop in the ranings as well? i find it hilarious you believe you can glean so much about me from a couple little missives made to bait irritable little pricks like you and whiteyemsr. i find great humor in the fact that you feel it necessary to tell everyone that you got into ND and GW (both accept roughly one in four applicants, not overly impressive is it?). remain...in terms of peer assessment (out of 5.0) GW-3.4, ND-3.3, and UW-3.5, as for assessment score by lawyers and judges (out of 5.0) GW 3.8, ND-3.8, and UW-3.7...pretty evenly matched wouldn't you say? it would follow then that if the assumption is ND grads are solid. mind you whiteyesmr I said UW was not a national school, you merely parroted...my contention has never been that ND isn't a good school but rather that it is an overrated program (it seems the people at USNWR agree with me) and its national standing will continue to suffer as a result. the $1200 a month is huge; i argued that if you wanted to live in wisco and could go there for free (a T1 school ranked one slot-due to ties-behind ND) why would you want the debt regardless of what galley you end up apple-polishing for? i would argue that the reputation of other graduate programs has everything to do with a school's national reputation, and if you look at where UW places across the board, it is one of the top schools in the country. therefore, my dears, when you say, i went to UW, especially in professional circles . . . john 259, way to blast 260 people you don't know (the size of this year's incoming class), you are certainly much smarter than the entire bunch. and whiteyesmr, chicago is a cool town...i know people who loved it and hated it. you will want to visit Wisco when you are there however since there is very little to do out-of-doors in Illinois. While you are slaving away to benefit some partner who secretely hates you, I would avoid the Wisconsin bashing however, UW places quite well in Chicago. john 259, as a husband and father of two kids with a good circle of friends i certainly don't care what others think of me. while i don't go out of my way to alienate people in REAL life (again dude, this is pretend world here) i certainly wouldn't mind if guys like you who need to constantly remind themselves that they are important and special, stayed away.

Vaginatorix, it is obvious that the only "professional circles" you are a part of are the ones at the Renaissance fair and maybe whatever theme restaurant you work at. A "beastie?" Who talks like that except for people at the aforementioned locations and avid Dungeons & Dragons kids.

The fact that you mentioned "husband and father of two kids" tells us that you do care what people think about you, because you just lied about being married and finding someone unfortunate enough to have your kids.

Also, I do not believe I bashed anybody other than you in your entering class. I even referred to your classmates as smart, which will be evidenced in the fact that you will feel alienated by them because youre obviously a social outcast who is obviously not very bright and gets a kick out of people actually responding to your ignorant blathering about how bad you have been hurt by your rejection letter from ND, which is why I mentioned that I had been accepted (it is okay that you were not part of that 1 out of 4). ND is a lot tougher to get into than UW; you failed to mention the LSAT scores and that 25% of admitted students at UW got below a 156. Personally, I like everybody I know who went to UW but I still have not met one who didnt grow up in Wisconsin. I just feel bad for the other folks in your entering class who will have to hear you whine on and on about your problems with Madisons Renaissance fair, not getting into ND, and your imaginary wife and kids. Good luck with all that.

Finally, Wisconsin's rise in the rankings is a fluke and they will no doubt drop after this year's incoming class. Vaginatorix, I am glad that you took time out from your game of Dungeons & Dragons to let me know exactly how poor your incoming class must be, but I assume it's tough to get good students to spend 3 years in Wisconsin if they're not from there. You're going to have to learn how to respond to arguments, read closely, and write in legible sentences before you get to law school. However, it's obvious that your 3 years in law school are going to be tough for you anyway, unless you're already used to being a social outcast, which is no doubt the case. Smart students like to hang out together, and I have a feeling you'll be left out, not just on account of your reluctance to stop dressing like some goth kid high schooler.

this, coupled with the above posted "lamest comeback of all time", leads me to believe that you care nothing for facts or precision when you argue your case. you clearly slam the UW class of 2010 stating that the school will suffer because of their performance, you further insult 260 people you couldn't pick out of a line-up, along with an entire state by saying it is "tough to get good students to spend 3 years in Wisconsin", you also unwittingly insult every other school ranked below UW (around 150) and all their students, many of whom probably outperformed you on the LSAT but didn't blindly leap at the highest ranked program like a good little lemming. good luck to you man, you sound like a real a-hole.

curious...i stayed logged-on as i skipped to another website and found that someone (an administrator perhaps?) had actually 1. moved my entire reply into a quote box and 2. changed my words from prick to "a real not so nice person". i guess when you are dealing with such deliberate censorship, real discourse cannot continue. if this ubermenschen john 259 is representative of most law students i tremble at what will become of me this fall; such wit and blinding intellect would overawe most professors. clearly this guy got into HLS but chose GW instead (for the location). as he reminds us, he got into both ND AND GW...AND he played some kind of college sport...and he probably rushed in some frat where they shoved lincoln logs up his anus....and he still cannot reconcile in his mind why he stayed. anywho, i can't wait to meet the likes of you in school, it should make getting on law review a good deal easier.

curious...i stayed logged-on as i skipped to another website and found that someone (an administrator perhaps?) had actually 1. moved my entire reply into a quote box and 2. changed my words from prick to "a real not so nice person". i guess when you are dealing with such deliberate censorship, real discourse cannot continue. if this ubermenschen john 259 is representative of most law students i tremble at what will become of me this fall; such wit and blinding intellect would overawe most professors. clearly this guy got into HLS but chose GW instead (for the location). as he reminds us, he got into both ND AND GW...AND he played some kind of college sport...and he probably rushed in some frat where they shoved lincoln logs up his anus....and he still cannot reconcile in his mind why he stayed. anywho, i can't wait to meet the likes of you in school, it should make getting on law review a good deal easier.

Wow, your ignorance surprises me with every post. I love that you think so highly of me. Yet, I'm beginning to think you might be a very disturbed pedophile. First, you talk about having imaginary kids. Now, you're imagining somebody putting lincoln logs (of all things, probably from your disgusting and illegal fantasies of children) where they don't belong. I really think you should try and cut yourself off from the internet from a few days. Just try it. Go a few days without online gaming and porn; you can thank me later.

As for the censorship, I think it is a shame that you can't express yourself however you want. I find it much easier to laugh at you and how bad you're making Wisconsin look when you're allowed to embarrass yourself however you want. If I don't hear from you for a while, then I'll know it was because you got caught on Dateline.

i'll bet john 259 thought that "Spinal Tap" and "Best in Show" were documentaries...he's the guy who can't quite figure out why Dwight of "The Office" is a funny character and laughs only when others in the room do. you are a fig newton of post-coital void man....a GW student trying to make a case for ND students and embarassing them in the process, beautiful...go put on your "rally cap" and Starter jersey and ogle some UG chicks or something.

curious...i stayed logged-on as i skipped to another website and found that someone (an administrator perhaps?) had actually 1. moved my entire reply into a quote box and 2. changed my words from prick to "a real not so nice person". i guess when you are dealing with such deliberate censorship, real discourse cannot continue. if this ubermenschen john 259 is representative of most law students i tremble at what will become of me this fall; such wit and blinding intellect would overawe most professors. clearly this guy got into HLS but chose GW instead (for the location). as he reminds us, he got into both ND AND GW...AND he played some kind of college sport...and he probably rushed in some frat where they shoved lincoln logs up his anus....and he still cannot reconcile in his mind why he stayed. anywho, i can't wait to meet the likes of you in school, it should make getting on law review a good deal easier.

No one has "censored" you. In your forum profile and options, there is a censorship option you can turn on and off. Profile -> Look and Layout Preferences.