January 10, 2012

What a joke! Christie — responding to hecklers who used the words "going down" in connection with jobs — said: "You know, something may be going down tonight, but it ain’t going to be jobs, sweetheart." Torie Bosch calls this "an offensive oral sex joke" and acts amazed that Christie put video of it on his YouTube site as if he were "proud" of it "rather than recognizing it as flagrantly demeaning, even misogynistic."

Now, obviously, the words "going down" mean happening, especially when the subject of the verb isn't a person and when there's no object preceded by the word "on." That is, to refer to oral sex, he would have something closer to "somebody's going down on something tonight." Moreover, if one were inclined to make an oral sex joke when the word "jobs" is already in the mix, you'd jape about "jobs." Going down? Oh, there will be some going down tonight, and there will be jobs, maybe not the kind of jobs you want, but there will be jobs.

If Christie wanted to make a blow-job joke, he'd make a much better blow-job joke. The joke here is Bosch. If Bosch were not already a joke at this point, it would be easy to make a joke about Bosch. Wordplay is easy when your name means "nonsense."

But it's not enough here to say Bosch is an idiot or that Bosch's idiocy exemplifies the pathetic present-day feminist web-writers and impugns the entire enterprise of feminism — which has been and should be noble.

It's not enough, because Bosch has infected the internet with a meme, and it's powerfully viral. There will be many, many people now who will get the idea that Chris Christie is a sexist. They just know — they feel — he's an immense misogynist. He's got misogyny on him — and like a blue dress kept in the back of the closet, that stain isn't going to get washed out any time soon.

Somewhat related: The other day, we were debating about the issue that people want a "strong conservative" verses a "moderate" which one would think would appeal to more people. I took the position that it's not so much that people want a more conservative conservative as they want someone who is strong in his or her conservativism, and who doesn't back down, waiver, or equivocate.

Christie is a good example of this. He's certainly moderate, but he is tough and refuses to back down about the issues on which he is passionate. Contrast him with a moderate like McCain.

Although Romney has a very different style, I think he's closer to Christie then McCain (for example, in his unequivocal defenses of capitalism and business).

he has been kind of a jerk when addressing women challenging him. See his interaction with a NJ voter who questioned his choice to send his children to private shool (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/21/christie-to-caller-none-your-business-where-my-kids-go-to-school/)

althouse selectively forgets to mention that. she's pushing the line that it's a "lie" that he's a misogynist, as though she has proof that he's not. then she gets just as polemical as the writer she's criticizing ("These slimy little dweebs who write...). it's interesting--in the Court of Althouse, the burden of proof is on everyone else.

Anyone who uses this kind of illogic to demonize someone else is toxic, and should be avoided. She's clearly twisting Christie's words. Thank you for much for calling Bosch on her twisted take, as it's clearly yet another version of bearing false witness which can very easily destroy not only one person's credibility but any group that is aligned with that person.

No, he's been a "jerk" to people like that shrill harpie who think they're the next Michael Moore. They're searching for the perfect slam that will knock the mean old Rethuglican back on his heels and make them internet stars. I can't link it, but check out the video recently of Christie hammering a doddering leftie who was convinced Christie was planting questions at his town halls; Christie's response - "If I'm planting questions, why the hell did I call on you?" was note perfect. I don't agree with a lot of Christie's positions, but he at least fights back at bias and fights for his convictions (as Lyssa points out).

There's a website called waiterrant.com, where the fellow lists 50 things that are great about New Jersey. One of them is "our governor doesn't give a shit what you think of him. Hell, he doesn't give a shit what WE think of him!"

This whole thing is symptomatic of something bigger - the desire to be a victim.

This pathology is now everywhere in every aspect of our lives. It finds some expression in litigation, others in media, others elsewhere.

It is another aspect of the death of what made America great. Americans, when put down, when we failed, when we had a set back, when someone did us wrong, used to "suck it up." No longer. Everyone is a victim who must be compensated.

I can see where she made this connection, but it's quite a stretch. Christie may be a lot of things, but he's not a guy who makes double entendre oral sex jokes, especially at campaign rallies. Now, if Carl Palladino had said this...

If Torie Bosch were a character in a Waugh novel, she would write a spirited defense of fox hunting or an impassioned plea to bring flogging back to prison punishment. Still, give her credit for writing an entire paragraph without making a single reference to Christie's weight. This shows real character and forebearance on her part.

I was unimpressed by Chris' handling of this particular interaction, to tell you the truth. Oh, well, sometimes things work, and sometimes they don't. I do not believe it was intended as a blowjob joke.

As for the rest: Chris Christie was neither a misogynist nor particularly sexist 30 years and I do not believe for one instant that he has morphed into such since.

I understood Christie to mean that something would be decreasing tonight, and it wouldn't be jopb - implication that jobs would not decrease under Romney, whom Christie was endorsing as he was speaking.

People who throw around the word "misogynist" are more likely than not to talk about how "handsome" and "dreamy" Obama is. The same way people who call themselves feminist made an endless list of excuses for Clinton's affairs and abuse of women, even belittling the accusation of rape of one woman. Yeah, real feminism there. Oh, did I say feminism? I meant Communism, the only ism that drives these Potemkin ideologies.

Torie Bosch: Ever the class act, Christie’s response: “You know, something may be going down tonight, but it ain’t going to be jobs, sweetheart.” He then goes on to insult the women by saying that if they were from Jersey, they wouldn’t be so silly as to think that his policies don’t support job creation. (That’s the way to win New Hampshire voters for Romney at the upcoming primary: insult them by saying that Jersey voters are smarter!)

Christie's joke seems to be an oral sex joke. Did Bosch overreact and twist his words?

Well, Christie was not insulting New Hampshire voters, he was saying residents of his state *know* from personal experience that Christie creates jobs.

Given how she definitely twisted and overreacts to his New Jersey comments, I am inclined to just not care.

This was an explicitly partisan meat eating event. That Christie tossed these hecklers to the lions is not a cause for outrage.

Later Bosch mentions Tracy Clarke Flory talking about the prudes of the GOP.

Heh. I will tell you that Chris Christie always did like to argue, and to argue with strongly opinionated women--including those like me, who was much more potty-mouthed and inclined toward dirty jokes than he was, at least publicly.

Hell, I can remember one particular university student government meeting debate during which--deferring to Rules of Order, in part anyway--I politely asked then-SG President Bruce Rogers to kindly inform Mr. Christie that he was full of shit over something or other. Bruce looked sort of shocked, but Chris laughed his ass off. It was great! And so was he.

There is no rational person who would not get the meaning of what Christie said. Anyone who has spent just a little of their time of life outside of a classroom, would clearly understand his language. You have to be so contorted in your thinking that you have just completely removed yourself from day to day reality.

Only years of university indoctrination can do that to a person. Years of having collectivist bullshit such as feminist theory, gender equity theory, fill-in-the-blank theory pounded into your head until the grey matter becomes mushy.

Reality and collectivist studies do not mix. Which is why those who subscribe to this BS should just stay in the Universities, which they mostly do. This is how it has perpetuated all these years- even though it has become a caricature of itself.

The real problem is that many of those mushy-heads have left the universities and found slots in journalism or government. Two very safe sanctuaries where such thinking is actually rewarded- not laughed at, as it is in the real world.

When those with the mushy heads cannot find a slot in academe, government, or journalism, they form groups to sit outside and whine together. This is known as OWS.

Bosch is right. It's obviously supposed to be some kind of joke, and if it isn't a BJ joke, it isn't funny. And Christie, like most people, would rather be funny than feminist. (Not that it's really very funny, though.)

"...Bosch's idiocy exemplifies the pathetic present-day feminist web-writers and impugns the entire enterprise of feminism — which has been and should be noble."

It reminds me of when George HW Bush debated Geraldine Ferraro in the 1984 Vice-Presidential debate, after which Bush was feeling a little giddy about his performance and said, "We kicked a little ass tonight," and the firestorm that erupted on the left for Bush calling Ferraro a little ass, and how sexist that is.

Or, in 2000 when Rick Lazio approached Hillary about signing an agreement to not take soft money, and how it was sexist of him to "invade her space" like that.

Christie is thuggish at times, but his engaged speaking style is a forceful contrast to Obama's often precious "I'm a writer and thinker" manner. I listen to the GOP debates on Sirius. I'd say a few of the GOP candidates are pretty interesting speakers -- at least for short periods. Obama sounds like a guy trying to be a poetic, stirring speaker, but not that comfortable with the natural flow of language.

she's pushing the line that it's a "lie" that he's a misogynist, as though she has proof that he's not.

Not really up on how honest people go about dealing with accusations, are you?

It's not up to Althouse to prove a negative -- because it's impossible. It's up to YOU and Bosch to prove the accusation. Ann's point is that the "evidence" proferred is weak. The earnestness with which Bosch makes the accusation DESPITE the weakness of the evidence is what leads to the "lie".

I think the Dems would like to get upset about the "sweetheart" (which, quite frankly, I didn't like), but can't because of President "Sweetie, Boy Girl Boy Girl". So they decided there was sexual innuendo to get upset about instead.

rcommal said...Heh. I will tell you that Chris Christie always did like to argue, and to argue with strongly opinionated women--including those like me, who was much more potty-mouthed and inclined toward dirty jokes than he was, at least publicly.

So, because Althouse likes Chris Christie that means a person who criticizes something Christie aid is an idiot. Here we see Ann Althouse descend into base ad hominem attacks.

Nothing new, really. Althouse's standards are very malleable, depending which tribe is being attacked.

"Something is going down tonight..." could easily refer to a person's HEAD going down on someone.

I checked media reports and here is the chant from the women he attacked: "Mitt kills jobs, Christie kills jobs."

Bear in mind that Ann Althouse also attacked Jessica Valenti for wearing "a tight knit top that draws attention to her breasts" while posing for a picture with former president Bill Clinton. One of her crazier moments, which really says something.

Torie did not opine on the heft of Christie because Torrie is herself a fattie. You can understand then that as a fatty she is likely not to want to point out Christie's fatness. She also might not hear sex jokes when there are none if she spent some time on the slant board or away from the tasty snacks.

Actually, I think he meant something else. Gov. Christie is a former US Attorney - a prosecutor - and I think he meant "going down" in the law enforcement sense, where you might say "I'm taking John Doe down" or "John Doe is going down tonight".

It is a two word idiom that has multiple meanings.

For example, I person travelling in a southbound direction may speak of "going down", e.g., if you're in Los Angeles you may be "going down to San Diego". A politician from a northern state who does business before Congress or who is aspiring to national office or is stumping for someone who is running for national office may think of "going down to Washington DC to clean things up". It doesn't really fit into this particular remark of Christie's but it is another reasonable meaning for this phrase.

Here's a situation where a two word phrase can have multiple meanings, and it is uttered in a context where a sexual innuendo would be completely inappropriate, and none have been made previously in the same event, and the politician uttering it has no history - unlike other politicians - of making sexually oriented remarks - and you jump to the conclusion that it is a reference to oral sex? That says a lot about the frame you habitually use to view life.

"... "Something is going down tonight..." could easily refer to a person's HEAD going down on someone...."

To adolescent liberals like yourself, of course.

Then again, who cares except pearl clutching people like Bosch and yourself. You and your pathetic ilk giggled like twennies when Obama made his lipstick on a pig joke, an obvious misyoginistic slur against Palin but being the classless people you are, that was just fine.

"... But, then again, Republicans defend Rick Santorum's statement that he wasn't talking about black people when he said:

”I don’t want to make black people’s lives better by giving them somebody else’s money. I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money and provide for themselves and their families.”.."

I don't see anything wrong with that statement. Louis Farrakhan said pretty much the same thing at the Million Man March.

But, then again, Republicans defend Rick Santorum's statement that he wasn't talking about black people when he said:

Santorum says he wasn't talking about black people. In the video the word "black" isn't quite clear. It's muffled. It sounds like "black". If given the chance to clarify the term would you believe Santorum?

One thing I often remind my students (teaching an ancient language as adjunct at university) is:

Words don't have meanings (as much as) they have uses.

Bosch insists that "going down" means x. No - the correct question is "how is Governor Christie using it?"

Now I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Christie was alluding to oral sex. There's a 0.1-1.0% chance Bosch might be right. But context and other fine arguments evinced by our good law professor persuade us that Christie was using the expression to mean "happen(ing)".

I think what I find increasingly tiresome is the leftist tendency to insist everything is or means what they - and they alone - say it is or means. This is solipsism on steroids. Gee - why can't the right play that game?

Now THIS I can agree with. I've got a lot of Bosche 12V stuff for the light inside work, including the very cool Power Cube...since made obsolete by the newer version with MP3 players in mind. For outside, though, I gotta go with DeWalt and Milwaukee.

You liberals are the biggest crybabies in society which is why you are always pushing for legislation for 'hate speech', demanding 'civility', or demanding some govt. program to protect you from the realities of life. That's probably why none of you show any sense of respect for others because you don't even have any for yourselves.

I'm disappointed in you, garbage. You have to follow up a fat joke by wriggling and chanting "Christie's got cooties, Christie's got cooties!" How else can you keep Alpha from taking away your "funniest third grader" crown?

As a capitalist I want to make more money than I already have and doing so in a bad economy is a pain. A good economy is excellent for all. It is preposterous to think a capitalist would want a bad economy for a political reason.

Only a dimwit leftie would think of ruining an economy so he could win an election.

"Going down" means to give a blow job, "sweetheart." To interpret his remark as insinuating he told the women "blow me" is completely appropriate. Christie is a crude man.

Christie’s remark is an unintentional verbal litmus test.

If you think it’s about blowjobs, you are probably a Lefty. If you think it’s not, you are probably on the Right. Trouble is … the MSM are all Lefties so the misogynist blowjob interpretation will probably win the day.

From 2006-2008, Jack Lew was chief operating officer of Citibank's alternative investments division. And it was his division that made billions of dollars betting "U.S. homeowners would not be able to make their mortgage payments," as the Huffington Post reported.

The piece also reported: “Lew made millions at Citi, including a bonus of nearly $950,000 in 2009 just a few months after the bank received billions of dollars in a taxpayer rescue, according to disclosure forms filed with the federal government. The bank is still partly owned by taxpayers.”

Garage: I wrote "He is about your height and outweighs you by fifty plus pounds."

The "plus pounds" means that fifty is the low end guess and the likelihood is that it is more than fifty. That is the beauty of the English language, a word like "plus" embellishes the word "fifty" so that readers, readers, know that it is "more" than "fifty." See? It is a marvel this language and you don't even need an "Urban Dictionary" to figure out a lot of it.

When God created Chris Christie He said, "If I make a man this competent, where can so much competence be stored?" And so Christie was made large to accommodate his great competence, and both his size and his competence struck fear into the hearts of the wicked and feckless.

Christie could look like Lance Armstrong and garage would still hate him because he's a partisan hack.

I don't like him because he's a phony prick. He takes camera crews around with him to events and tries to come off as the Jersey tough guy by talking shit to ordinary people. What is impressive about that? Is pushing down girls some feat in conservative circles?

Now, now. Freeman's pregnant, not fat (and due any time now, right, Freeman).

As for--to use your term, and only because you used it--"goombah," Going2Carolina, Christie's only part that; the other part's Irish. He married a nice Irish Catholic girl from PA, too. So give him credit!--he may not be setting the best example for his kids, but he is at least by-God diluting the goombah-stock!

I'm sure Christie doesn't care. As for me--I just like lumping together birds of feather. Think of it as ID'ing phenotypes. I'm fascinated by commenter psychology.__________wv = "gynag" That one speaks for itself.