Wednesday, May 15, 2013

sometimes I want it from someone else.

Hey ESB,I'm writing to you super anonymously because this whole topic makes me nervous. Well, more embarrassed than nervous.I want to get other people's advice on fidelity. I've been married for 2 years, and love my husband. He is freakishly smart, extremely compassionate, and is a seriously handsome devil. But sometimes I have dreams about other men. Not hot sex dreams (I wish), but dreams where another man "likes" me, we make eyes at each other, he's crazy about me but we don't touch, or he writes me love letters that drive me crazy, like cheesy Nicholas Sparks shit (I've never read any of his books, but admit I watched The Notebook). I wake up the next morning and wish my husband made me feel that same way that these anonymous men do in my dreams. Sometimes he does. God, this is embarrassing to even write out. Back in reality, I occasionally have crushes. Most women do. But for the first time in years (my husband and I dated for 11 years before getting married), a crush reciprocated and asked me to hang out, standing a little too close for comfort. I stammered some nonsense about not being able to, but didn't say I was married. It was hard to spit those words out. I can't say I wasn't tempted to pretend I was not married. It feels so good to be wanted. My husband is into me, loves me, tells me I'm sexy, grabs me out of the blue, but sometimes I want it from someone else. How do other people deal with these feelings? Do you shove them way down inside and hope they go away? Do they think of other men when having sex with their husbands? Do they have affairs just to see what another man feels like? Can people flirt harmlessly?I know I need to tell my crush I'm not available, but it's hard closing that door. The most selfish parts of me want to keep up the ruse for the attention, the affirmation, the thrill. Like I said, embarrassing. Thoughts from the pack of snarky women out there? I appreciate all of your input and experience.

*****

I'm pretty sure I can safely say that 30-90% of married women have similar feelings at some time or another. Not just the crush part. The "sometimes I want it from someone else" part. Doesn't EVERYONE have those feelings at some point? Human beings weren't built to be monogamous.

That said, I don't recommend that you run out and have an affair. If you want to go down the monogamish road you need to discuss it with your husband and get his permission. You'll have to decide if the wanting-it-from-someone-else is, as Dan Savage would say, a "deal breaker" for you.*

The alternative is to flirt. And, yes, there's such a thing as harmless flirting. *Hot* harmless flirting, even, which can fuel your fantasy life and liven up the sex you're having with your husband. (Feel free to think of other men during that sex! Or to imagine your husband is a different, cheesy, Nicholas Sparks-y man.)

Again, just don't deceive or mislead anyone. You really do have to tell that guy you're married.

I feel this. I feel it a lot. I do wonder if there is such a thing as harmless flirting. I know its harmless for me - its an outlet and it doesn't mean anything to me, but how does the other person receive it? And, more importantly, would it feel harmless to my husband if he knew? I promise you, he doesn't flirt. And this isn't naive wife shit, he doesn't know how to flirt, doesn't recognize it when its happening, and didn't know how to flirt with me when he was, ahem, wooing me.

Oh, all of this. I run everything through the filter of 'would I be ok with this if my husband was doing it?' That usually gives me my answer.

Giving a little wink to the construction guy that whistles at me? Totally ok.

Having someone ask me on a date and willfully hiding the fact that I'm married? Not ok.

Now, I say this in the context of MY marriage. I know myself. I know how quickly things can go downhill from light-hearted flirting to making out in a bathroom (from my single days, obvi). Other people draw their lines in different places. So the long story short... no you aren't alone, but only YOU (and your husband) can really determine what the next step is.

Oh my gosh, THANK you for writing this. I'm not married, but I'm probably going to get married to my current boyfriend someday. I know I'm allowed to think other men are good looking, but how far am I allowed to take it (in my mind)? Even though I'm very sure about him, I still sometimes think about other men. I didn't know if there was something wrong with me, but glad to know others feel this way and that it's OK!

Yeah, I'm really glad this has come up. I cheated on my last boyfriend, whom I dated for YEARS, and now I'm pretty freaked about possibly not being capable of monogamy. Kind of a "once you pop, you can't stop" concern.

it's called wanting a little Strange. everyone wants it. some people get it. sometimes it ruins marriages. sometimes it doesn't.

personally i don't think you need to tell your 'crush' anything, until it turns into something other than a fantasy. if you decide to make a pass at this bloke, it's only fair to let him know about the hornet's nest he's about to step on ...

i think it's different to NOT REVEAL that you're married, than to LIE about being married.

like, when i'm chatting up some dude, i don't mention the fact that i have a toddler at home. major buzz kill (for everyone including ME) BUT if they guy asks me if i'm married / have a kid / whatever, it's best to be honest. womp womp !

one thing i have discovered since being married is that a majority of men don't give a shit if you're married. they see your ring...they go right on flirting anyway. i'm pretty sure you can be up-front with your crush about your status AND get your little thrill from his googly-eyes and attention. it's not an either/or.

- Maybe a little something wrong with not telling crush clearly you're married. To me this is equivalent to my dieting ass buying my husband Oreo's. Why tempt yourself? I think this is a part of maturity, knowing you can't have everything you want. And that you'll feel this way a thousand more times in your life and some of them will reciprocate. Are you going to sleep with all of them? Have the flirting, but don't be shady about who you are and what your situation is.

These feelings seem totally normal. Here's what I doFYI - only been married a year

1. Enjoy those dreams and then understand they aren't real.Obviously dreams aren't real, but I have realized that sometimes after I have hot dreams about someone from my past, I think of them more as memories than dreams. I get to thinking that I should seek out the relationship we started in my dream. Reality check - there was no relationship started in the dream.

2. Talk to my partner about dreaming/thinking about other men in a very non-threatening and joking way. That way I am honest without making him feel there is a problem.

3. Don't cheat. If I wouldn't like my husband doing it with another woman, I can't do it with another man.

A close friend recently told me that she would like to swing, but her husband's not into it. This has me fantasizing about her husband. Part of me thinks that it's so beautiful to commit to one person because we're not naturally monogamous and part of me thinks that the gesture wouldn't be diminished if we gave each other the space to explore our physical needs. Realistically speaking, I don't think any harm would be done in the short term if we decided to switch partners with our friends for the night. The thing that concerns me is the possibility of making a strong emotional connection (too strong) with someone else because of that physical intimacy. Is it too risky? I'm not sure.

Myself, I find the physical needs excuse a little thin - if its just about physical needs then you can eff a cucumber and get off. And you can certainly eff your spouse to take care of physical needs.

As for not being designed for monogamy - Humans also weren't designed to spend 5 hours a day on Facebook nor to be competitive eaters, but some of us overcome our nature. It doesn't seriously seem that hard to just not have sex with other people - but maybe its just not that hard for me.

I am open minded and curious though and would love to understand more the values behind these theories that many others share with you.

As a woman who started off flirting harmlessly and ended divorced, I'd say there's no such thing for me. You really have to know yourself and whether that harmless flirting is truly harmless, or whether it goes deeper or comes from some bad place in your current relationship. For me, it was both. The man I was flirting with has turned into the love of my life, and my miserable marriage ended in the process. Now I keep an wary eye on my own flirting so I'm sure to protect our relationship.

Great point. If you think your desire for attention from other men stems from the fact that you're missing something in your current relationship, you probably should figure out what that is, talk with husband, and fix that shit.

This is very normal. Sex with the same person gets...old. You gotta work to keep it feeling fresh. And there's nothing less erotic than work...but it's necessary to hash this stuff out in order to have a healthy long-term relationship.

Seeking your needs from other people can be a way of avoiding some of the real work of marriage. Is flirting harmless? Yes...but it's a little like snacking...if you eat nuts all day (that's what she said), you won't be hungry for the steak dinner.

I just mean that if you're putting all your energy into the flirting and you are likewise getting your emotional/attention needs met by your crush rather than your spouse, you run the risk of your crush fulfilling you in that way...ruining your appetite, so to speak.

The greater question here is: Do your dreams/your crush/your desire to flirt stem from a deeper place than just innocent attention seeking/validation that you're desirable?

Dan Savage said in a recent podcast that at some point in every long-term relationship, love stops being an emotion that washes over you and becomes an action that you take– the willful act of deciding to still love.

Part of loving your husband is not giving in or cheating despite having these feelings. And it sounds like you're not really tempted to cheat, you're just worried about experiencing those feelings.

I also find it helpful to admit to my partner when I have those feelings about someone else--it kind of pops that bubble of excitement and mystery, and then all the sudden the crush feelings seem unsubstantial compared to my partnership. And admitting it breeds more honesty and trust between us.

"I also find it helpful to admit to my partner when I have those feelings about someone else--it kind of pops that bubble of excitement and mystery, and then all the sudden the crush feelings seem unsubstantial compared to my partnership. And admitting it breeds more honesty and trust between us."

I hear you but it seems like if you're married/committed, and as long as you're not saying anything cruel or unnecessarily mean, you should be able to say anything to your spouse/partner. At least, that's how my marriage works. My husband might not like everything I have to say, but he's legally required to listen to it. :)

Yeah, my husband doesn't mind celebrity crush discussion, but anything more serious than that and he's been clear that he doesn't want to hear about it. Conversely, I feel like I would want to know if he has a crush, but as it has never come up I honestly can't say that I wouldn't be hurt/jealous. I think I probably would. So maybe I'd rather not know?

I TOTALLY tell my partner when I have a crush. And I encourage him to do the same. It's not a comfortable conversation, but it happens so rarely and it really does sort of put a lid, or at least a little perspective, on the intensity of the crush.

I definitely have these feelings, as do all normal (?) women. And I like being flirty sometimes, and I think the drive is that you get this feeling of being desirable, and of course I know my partner loves me and finds me sexy, but sometimes you want ... confirmation? And I am conscious of being flirty, and tend to try to use it to fuel passion in the bedroom with my partner. And if I am fantasizing about someone else, I might think of them while having sex, or I consider why am I thinking of that particular person, and then I might ask my partner to try something different depending on what I think I really want from that fantasy.

I think these are completely healthy and (can be) harmless emotions. I'm sure my partner has sex dreams about other women. But everyday you make a choice to be with that person, dreams and flirtations are a pseudo reality. Don't be nervous about what you are feeling, but do try to consider what it means for you and if possibly there is something that you want to work on in the relationship (there might very well not be!).

You seem to dream a lot about the romantic gestures, maybe planning a weekend away or a romantic evening - or asking your husband to plan something because it would mean a lot to you?

I'm getting married this year and have been with my partner 5 years, we have dips and peaks like any relationship. I got flirty with another man last year, nothing ever happened, but the option was there.. and while I did briefly consider it (imaginations can run wild!) I kept thinking how it would affect my partner, he would be crushed, and so would I! My partner and I then went home for the holidays and it was wonderful and reminded me of everything I love about my man, and now I can't believe I ever had those thoughts. But they were a good thing, because it made me look and remember and reaffirm that I am marrying this wonderful man.

so.. after that spiel - I say it's fine to have those feelings as long as you find a healthy way to express them!

I sooo relate. We recently had a really cute guy start hanging out with our group of friends and I find myself a little bit too flattered when he flirts with me. Like, really full-of-myself flattered. And just last weekend there was a drunken almost-kiss that made me realize I'm being kind of an idiot. Harmless flirting is okay, hot even, but actually doing anything would cause irreparable damage to my marriage and friendships. So fantasies only for me.

For me, I think I've found the balance in entertaining those ideas and fantasies, rather than trying to repress them. I try not to delude myself on either side of the question: I love my husband and don't want my marriage to end or to hurt him, but I also sometimes wonder about other people. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

This is something you (and all of us as well) will have to deal with the rest of your life...It's not like crushes go away just because you get married. You have to learn to deal with it somehow.

Find a good strategy that works for you, and go with that. I agree that harmless flirting is harmless, but keep in mind that you are with your husband for a reason, and every other crush you've had did not end up in marriage - also for a reason. The attention at the beginning is great, but most of the time that's all it really is. Enjoy the flattery for what it is, and don't try to make more of it.

Not knowing what to do with all these feelings has been stressing me out, and it's so helpful to hear your experiences. I also talked with my therapist about it, and will eventually talk with my husband about it, once I get a grasp on what it is I am working through and how to use it to make our marriage stronger.

An update on the crush: I apologized to him for not being upfront, told him I was married, and the mild flirting continued. I proceeded to take that energy home and fuck my husband.

I am just curious. You say that you have been with your husband for 13 years total. Did you never feel like this when you were dating? I would assume that those years were spent monogamously as well? Does being legally married really change things that much?

I had a few reciprocal crushes like this while we were dating. One went a little farther than the rest, but I've never taken any action on them.

There are lot of unknowns for me here that I am sorting out. What's my ok level of flirting? What am I missing from my husband that I need to bring up? How much of this has to do with personal issues and how much with relationship issues? Would I be ok with my husband doing the same thing? All things I'm working out. As you all have said, this is not the last time this will happen.

You brought the anon back! Is that just for this post, or forever? I'm using it just for the novelty.

I think the boundaries of what is okay and what is not okay are different for every person and for every relationship. I flirt all the time, I suppose, but not with people I'm super attracted to. Personally, that would make me highly uncomfortable; it would make me feel distance from my partner that I wouldn't enjoy. But we also have a rule in our relationship: If you think you really, really want to sleep with someone, come and talk about it first. I'd rather know and give my blessing, than have secrets like thatl. It helps that I don't really get jealous. The only time I was jealous was when my partner pretended he didn't have a crush on our friend. As soon as he fessed up to the crush, I wasn't jealous any more; it took the pressure out of the situation for me because all the cards were on the table.

I guess this is a rambling way of saying: you don't seem comfortable with this level of flirting. It is setting off alarm bells, and you should listen to that. Maybe you should pull way back, talk it through with your partner, and see where you want to go from there. Maybe you'll wind up monogam-ish, maybe you'll realize you were missing something in your partnership and resolve that, or maybe you'll realize that talking about it takes the pressure of the situation and you will stop walking around, feeling like a ticking time bomb.

This is amazing. Thank you for sharing! After starting a new job a year or so ago, I grew a crush on an adorable co-worker. I didn't know how to handle my feelings and was feeling pretty guilty for a while. So I finally ended up blurting it out to my husband. I was a mixture of clammy hands and word vomit. And you know what he did? Gave me the biggest smile I could have ever imagine and told me that it was adorable that I was so worried. Talk about a sigh of relief. He was so sweet to tell me that what I was feeling was normal and that everyone has a crush from time to time. He wasn't offended in the slightest because we both know how lucky we are with what we have. And you know what? That crush turned out to be an idiot in the end and I remembered all the reasons why I fell in love with my husband in the first place.

Almost 3 years married chiming in...and I have actually gone through with the cheating. My husband knows how much of a flirt I am, but has seen me in action and has never even seemed concerned when I ask him if wants me to stop. "Married not buried!" is his motto. The guy I cheat with is a close friend who lives on the opposite coast that I visit with whenever I am in town. The sex with my CF is FUN...but so damn guilt ridden afterward.

I advise now that you don't start...because when you get sexy "I want you so bad right now!" texts mid-day from a this guy...it's addicting and it's just all downhill from there. Trust me, I speak from experience.

All the other stuff that ESB is spot on. Just thinking about it and even just flirting drives me crazy and makes me want my husband so bad. So yeah, don't be like me and just quit while you're ahead and stick to flirting (but no more with this guy since we both know where that will lead) and tell this guy you're married ASAP.

I just want to chime in that I went through a similar thing....the sexy texts and flirting were SO ADDICTIVE and hot and intense, there was soooo much tension and build up....and then I finally slept with him and it was totally anticlimatic. The build up, the chase, him wanting me so badly was the best part--and then I had cheated on my partner and felt shit and betrayed his trust. Not at all worth it.

@17 beats: It is sexy...very sexy. It is so hard having this Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde life. It's pretty shameful, but it's just plain addicting. I just need to see a damn therapist already.

My husband never looks at my phone because even before this situation, I don't take kindly to people who go through my things, just like he doesn't (although he doesn't mind me looking at his things). No secret email because he doesn't have access to that.

I sometimes think that he knows just because of how I react to him just touching some of things sometimes (like I will go to a specific screen on my phone when my phone is acting weird instead of just handing it to him) because I'll just be so paranoid sometimes. And what is even weirder is that he doesn't mind at all whenever I go through his phone or happen to read his email when his laptop is open and he has walked away.

And don't worry, I judge myself constantly regarding this whole crazy situation. I deserve to be judged. My husband is so damn intelligent, lovely, and gorgeous and I treat him like shit behind his back. It's just that the attention from another man makes me fall to pieces. :/

I second the "it's addicting and downhill." I had the exact same situation. I've been with my partner for 9 years and have always been able to have casual flirty time and it be fine. Then I had one situation where the casual flirty turned into a "friendship" which turned into the guy confessing he was in love with me which turned into me thinking "Am I in love with him?" which turned into cheating. It was the Best and the Worst all the same time. I was constantly stressed and wasn't sleeping and cried all of the time. That is when I wasn't on a huge dopamine high and completely turned on. I finally broke it off (we never actually had intercourse by the way, but that was pretty much a technicality), and I got my ass in therapy and my husband and I worked through it and he forgave me. Still when I think about the whole thing I feel nauseated and guilty and when I see the man I cheated with I think "Oh god, how the fuck did I ever feel that way about you?"

So yeah. Be very very careful. It WILL FEEL AMAZING, and it will not be worth it after.

Although I will say, I learned a lot about myself and my fallibility. And in a weird way things are better with my husband than they were before. (because he is The Best.)

I also think relationships have cycles, and even if you aren't getting all of the thrills from your partner that you would like at the moment, that doesn't mean you won't go through another "Hot and Heavy" phase sometime in the future.

Ha, perfect timing. I'm going through a phase of having a crush on one of my closest friends - every few months I spend about a week just constantly fantasizing about this guy before randomly snapping out of it. We're both married and obviously wouldn't go through with anything, but it's distracting and I end up feeling the same way as the OP - stressed out just because I'm having these feelings!

I'm pretty sure I could never cheat on my husband because I'd end up starting to cry before I got my top off, and that would just be embarrassing. But I don't see the harm in having sexy thoughts about other people - it's kind of like watching porn but in your head!

Your timing is amazing. I am having such a big crush right now, and it's driving me nuts! The thing that makes me realise this one is more dangerous is that I haven't told my husband about it when I normally would. We've got a difficult dynamic at the moment, and there's a fair bit of distance between us as it is. I just know that this time, he wouldn't be able to handle the idea of me crushing, especially when it's somebody we spend a fair bit of time with.

Before we were married, my favourite thing would be to go out and dance and drink and flirt all night, then come home at 5am and use all that energy to fuck my boyfriend. I especially liked the affirmation of choice that you get from feeling desired by other people. A little reminder that you could be with other people, but that you're choosing to go home to your one.

But, we conceived a baby very shortly after getting married, and guess which one of us has ended up stuck at home with the child all the time? Which, of course, is part of the problem with our dynamic right now. We've fallen into this really unequal pattern of existence, so that I don't think either of us is feeling fulfilled.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that flirting and crushing can be totally healthy and fun, and even beneficial to your relationship, but sometimes it can be a reminder that it's time to renegotiate the terms of engagement for your own relationship.

When I need more romance and flirting in my life - perhaps I'm thinking about other men or perhaps I just wished my partner was more romantic - I see this as a reminder to BE more romantic myself. If I want romantic/sexy gestures then I need to give them, a LOT of them. Then you start getting them in return.

Besides, different people have different concepts of romance, so appreciating the romance you do get is a good thing too.

This really is great advice, whether or not it was intended to be instructional. Complaining about "not enough" is a buzzkill, and I'm *recurrently* guilty of that. So "[i]f I want romantic/sexy gestures then I need to give them, a LOT of them." Thanks!

May I suggest drugs? My husband and I barely drink or do drugs, but a few times a year we like to get reeeaaaalllly baked and have a lot of sex. Because we're so high it adds this awesome "newness" feeling but you still get the security and awesomeness of boning the love of your life. My personal preference is weed, but you know, pick your poison. Don't overdo it though--otherwise it'll be a crutch and not a fun recreational thing.

Seems like things are under control by now. My single/never a long term relationship guy thoughts:1. It's cheating if you both don't know/agree to it.2. Don't count on the crush being the brakeman. 3. If you don't want your partner doing it, you can't do it either.4. Don't lie about it.

I'm amazed that everyone talks to their spouses about the crushes they have. I'm not that jealous. If my husband talked to me about crushes, that'd be fine. But he would lose his effing mind if I talked about a crush. He once got jealous of a photo of me and a gay male friend. He doesn't even like celeb crushes.

and for the record - I would be that jealous, too, but maybe that's just track-record-of-my-life speaking.

I would also like to say that, again, track-record-of-my-life speaking, some of the other commenters have nailed this shit perfectly: give more romance. deal with your relationship. consider the consequences. what's making you hungry?

the commenter who spoke about the cycle of love had some really good points. it's ok to feel like this, but it's not ok to not spend some time thinking through your heart and being honest with yourself. good luck!

I just remember all the flirting I did in the past, how they all turned out to be a bunch of jerks and how lucky I am to have this guy. Really try thinking through your prior relationships, one-night stands, etc start to finish. It should stop you dead in your tracks.

on a quasi scientific note, the way your brain is on infatuation and the way your brain is on long term love are really different. Infatuation is this heady, addictive, highs and lows thing, that can't last that long- you get this hard hit of 6-8 weeks for the first flush of falling in love, then something like 6 months to 2 years of medium bliss, and then you get into cozy comfortable love and you have to work pretty damn hard to fake yourself into feeling swoony for your lover after that.

So the way I'd feel about a new person would last 2 years tops and then I'd be back about where I started. And if that doesn't seem like it's worth burning what I've got to the ground, then I'm not going to follow my crush to a bad end.

Starting from that thought process its pretty easy for me to see that what I like instead is feeling all the blushing and swooning and I can take the duration of my crush as a good opportunity to figure out some fixes to anything that slid in my relationship/life. Take a class and learn something a little scary, make a commitment to go on more dates with the "boring" old significant other, work on something else. Pretty soon, crush has passed, with some fun memories and no one is hurt.

When I was single, I was on the receiving end of a lot of married dude flirting, and it always left a really sour taste in my mouth. It might be fun for the married person to partake in some "innocent" flirting, but it feels pretty lonely when you're getting along great with someone and then find out that they're married and just enjoying themselves.

I think there's a big difference between letting your mind wander, and actually engaging in serious flirting or beyond. And, as I said above, I think the other person's experience matters a lot too.

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sarahMy name is sarah and my ex-boyfriend dumped me 8 months ago after I caught him of having an affair with someone else and insulting him. I want him back in my life but he refuse to have any contact with me. I was so confuse and don't know what to do, so I visited the INTERNET for help and I saw a testimony on how a spell caster help them to get their ex back so I contact the spell caster and explain my problems to him..... he cast a spell for me and assure me of 3 days that my ex will return to me and to my greatest surprise the third day my peter came knocking on my door and beg for forgiveness. I am so happy that my love is back again and not only that, we are about to get married. Once again thank you Moko spell caster, you are truly talented and gifted contact his email:dr.kokotemple@gmail.com

“I have spent much money on spells and bought many spells three or four times as much than your spells. I was almost thinking there was no hope to reunite with my wife. But I read these good reviews about your work and bought one more spell. I put all my faith in you and followed your directions to the letter. We are happier now than ever. Everything looks perfect and so natural! That’s what I love with your spell. Thanks; if there is anybody how need help you can contact him in his email address now dr.ehizojlespiritualhome@gmail.composted by Samlia Crown

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