Yeah, Boxey did make a brief appearance in one or two episodes as a kind of Artful Dodger style urchin, involved in black market goings-on... he was a kind of mascot for Starbuck once too... she had him with her in the briefing hall one of the times she was in charge in stead of Apollo, back in season 1.

The writers essentially just dropped him, though, as they didn't know what to do with him and didn't want things getting cute.

@Cat Vincent: Yeah, not as horrible, just makes me disappointed with Iggy.

I don't think that Starbuck is the older Ellen at all, otherwise Tigh and Adama would've noticed. But way back when Ellen was first introduced, she was straight up compared to Six, but the suggestion is that she's a separate Cylon model to Six. Maybe she's like a "mother" to the Cylons, hence the final and most important.

There's something that I don't think anyone else has pointed out yet - in Tyrol's flashback, we saw tons of people in that marketplace, and none of them were of the 12. Obviously, there have been many, many more models than just the 12, and dating back to 2000 years earlier. So I'd say it's quite possible that Starbuck is another model, and not one of the 12.

There's a theory put forth by somebody on another board that I quite like (the theory, that is....well, the board, too) that the Resurrection Hub was actually a product of the Earth Cylons (and it is hinted specifically Ellen) and that the Cylons from the other colonies stumbled on it after the first war and adapted themselves to the technology using what they'd already learned in their hybrid experiments. The technology hadn't been perfected when the Five were meant to resurrect (or it's imperfection was why ONLY the Five resurrected), and when they did their memories were messed up, and they somehow made their way to the 12 Colonies, and just blended in and lived their lives as humans. The big hole in the theory is the age difference amongst the Five.

I also think that in 'Caprica' it's going to play out that the 12 Colonies Cylons were engineered from a forbidden technology. There are some mentions in the earlier seasons that the 13th tribe and the Five were servants to a nameless God, so I imagine during the exodus from Kobol the Cylons were basically kicked out for being dirty monotheists, and their technology was outlawed and then forgotten once the 12 Colonies were founded.

You could say it's a difference between nurturing. They both have a different background (I believe, I could be wrong), to the point where they are considered completely different besides similar features. Sort-of like the Clark Kent/Superman thing--Kent is so different from Superman, no one ever suspects that they're the same person.

There is a rather innocous point that had been staring me in the face since the first episode.....Seven known cylons and five unknown. What number does that make children? 12....How many colonies were they? 12. Even if you count the 13 tribes (I say no more for any who missed it) With Starbucks relevation.

So could the skin job cylons be the fabeld lords of Kobol and the founders of the twelve colonies before they left to found Earth?

I'd been spoiled on the Ellen Tigh revelation and Dualla's death already, but I was mostly unmoved by the latter beyond having the surprise ruined. I loved how she went out, but emotionally it didn't affect me. This brought about the sad revelation that I don't really care much about the characters on this show. Maybe that's my problem, not the fault of the show, but other than Roslin and Bill Adama, and maybe Baltar at a stretch, I'm not fretting about them much. The thing that got to me most about Dualla's death was Adama's reaction, because I don't want him to be sad. Other than that, it just depressed me, and not just in the way it depressed everyone. I also couldn't help but compare that reaction to how I respond to Lost. When, for example,

Danielle died, even though she had only been on the show for about an hour total screentime

, I was gutted. I should love BSG way more than I do (ZOMG serious sci fi on TV!), but I don't. I like it, and admire it, and think it's provided some great drama, but a lot of it leaves me cold.

I really don't want them to turn out to all be Cylons. That would feel like way too much of a cop-out to me, like they were trying too hard to blow our minds. Sort of an "It was all a dream" ending.

I really wasn't expecting the Ellen thing. I don't really know how I feel about it, honestly. I never thought she was a very interesting character.

That last episode was quite a downer, but I think the one where Tory killed Callie was worse.

Also, I think everyone is too damn forgiving on the show. Athena kills the head Six (Natalie, I think?), and is back on duty the next episode. Starbuck assaults the president and gets command of a ship. Well, pretty much everything Starbuck has ever done should have been enough to get her brigged for life.

One other thing - does anyone else feel like we've been watching a completely different show since New Caprica? It's like the whole deck has been reshuffled. It's a good new show, but very different then the old one.

The best pregnancy in fiction is in Fargo. Frances McDormand's character, the local sherrif, is heavily pregnant throughout the movie. And that's it. She never actually gives birth. We never see the baby. She just waddles around solving crimes and talking like a way-smarter Sarah Palin. It's great.