schools must allow for minority students to speak in ebonics

Im saying that before people scoff at the OP, think about it. What, exactly, are we talking about. And what is the best way forward?

I read the first page and a half, and it felt that the general gist was callous and more continuing with what has been failing for the last 30 years.
Im asking questions hoping to make people think for a minute. Because im convinced that "oh hell no, screw them" isn't going to start
working.

How many Cajuns do you know who are allowed to speak their dialect and everyone considers that normal and proper and we give them allowances for that
everywhere?

If not, why not?

And Cajun is much closer to an actual foreign language that would need allowances than Ebonics is.

I'm black and educated. I speak very differently when I am at home and around friends. Most people would probably think I am white on the phone. My
wife often jokes that I use my "white voice" when I am on the phone with clients.

The problem is that many inner city kids are not exposed to proper English and never really learn how to speak properly. All they hear is slang.

I once almost applied for a job with the FBI. They were looking for a "translator" as I guess they were having an issue understanding urban slang on
wire taps.

Absolutely agreed, same with me and my Welsh/English switch between dialect and actual language depending on my audience.

I explained it better at the bottom of the last page, but if people are capable of understanding formal English when being spoken to then they are
choosing not to use it when their own audience requires it.

As such its a example of the black community choosing to isolate themselves which then shoots them in the foot. If they are going to isolate
themselves culturally and linguistically there will be negative consequences, that is just the way of life.

I am thinking of giving you a pass because you are from England and may not know much about America's social history, segregated schools ,churches,
neighborhoods, wasn't black folks choice, they were forced into it, steps taken to desegregate schools were met with massive resistance as many
whites simply pulled their kids from schools and go elsewhere.

As far as hell freezing over?? look here, your ex Roman overlords would have laugh themselves silly if anyone had suggested that so-called Barbarian
from the British Isles whose language and power would one day dominate the world, but here we are.

Speaking from a purely philosophical point of view, would forcing someone to speak a specific language not be a violation of their civil rights? What
about cultures where religion and language are enmeshed?

There is a reason we don't have an official national language. I'd suspect any argument in favor of removing "ebonics" as a language allowance would
need to overcome the legal argument first.

a reply to: Spider879
That was a really interesting video--thanks for sharing. My family and some neighbors went to Myrtle Beach a few years back, and when driving through
South Carolina, before getting near the coast, I was much more drawn to the areas that we were driving through than the actual tourist-trap coastline
itself.

I wish I would have known to seek out local culture like this, as it really fascinates me.

But regardless, I still consider it a "slang language," but not in the same way as like how a flapper spoke in the 1920s, but more a clever way to
alter the "proper" language of the area to create sort of an "insider" language. But I generally agree with your comment, so I think that we're on the
same page, maybe just with different notes in the margin.

I would not support forcing people to speak a particular language, heck the English government did that in Wales generations ago and many Welsh school
children were beaten.

I support educational establishments ,teaching subjects in a particular language, insisting that essays and coursework being submitted in the same
agreed language by all students.

If people wish to speak in a way that spells failure in their nation's business world that is up to them. Schools etc have a duty to aspire success
for their students.
Home school is an option if parents wish their kids to never leave their housing estate.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
but when someone speaks broken english in a foreign accent its considered attractive and sexy. interesting.

No one is saying that they should give up Ebonics all together anymore than anyone should give up their home dialect. I think most people are saying
they should also learn the professional dialect the same way the rest of us did.

A lot of people on this thread change dialects as needed to fit our situation and company.

And there is a big difference between two dialects of the same root language and being someone who speaks English as their second language. The entire
underlying grammatical structure is different. That adds another layer of difficulty in switching back and forth between the two. Dialects, on the
other hand, will carry the same deep structures.

I'm from Wales originally, I speak Welsh and English back home, and my strong dialect comes back speaking English within a couple of pints with my
family, they tease me I speak posh English.
But # me I tailor my linguistic presentation to my audience as appropriate. I speak differently when in Wales and England for the obvious need for
mutual understanding.

My dad was born in Ireland -- Sligo, and was just old enough to have been taught Gaelic in school. He was fluent.

By the time I was old enough to notice his Irish accent, he had learned to tone it down just enough that most people (southern California) had no
problem understanding him. I certainly rarely did. Until...

From time to time he would get on the phone to one of his siblings in Ireland and start jabbering in Gaelic, which for the uninitiated, is a very odd
language. These conversations would have a very odd effect on his speech patterns and accent for a couple of days afterwards.

He would lapse from his "soft" Irish accent that I was used to into this very pronounced and heavy "brogue". He was an educated man who had an
enviable English vocabulary, but for some reason, when he went into that post-Gaelic-conversation mode, that seemed to affect his very choice of
individual words in favor of fewer syllables. I know that sounds strange, but even my mother noticed it.

It was like a switch would flip in his head and it took him a couple days to turn it off...

its not really all that different. pretty much every race that uses broken english native speaker or not gets a pass except for black individuals. but
for your sake ill use "betsey joe" a bubbly blonde haired country bumpkin who is so cute with her broken southern accent who did go to school but
still speaks kind of "dumbed down" no one cares about her. they even find her cute... lol its quite amusing to me.

or even paris hilton using baby talk. she is so cute. even though she sounds like a toddler. she is filthy rich surely she should be speaking proper
english not in such a child like manner. what gives?

The grammatical structure is true with Welsh and English. I learned Welsh as my second language as a child in a Welsh medium school where the classes
were instructed in Welsh.

Other students spoke Welsh as their first language while other friends of mine went to the English language medium school and learned Welsh in
separate lessons.

We have a crazy mix of fluent Welsh, fluent English, conversational Welsh, and 'Wenglish', that is a crazy mix of both even mixed in sentences
because the word/phrase can be more meaningful depending on the language.

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