If these kids are already conditioned by society to listen to this music - a society which reflects the very negative attributes this sort of music usually motivates in these young listeners (drugs and sex etc) - then I see only two options: They continue to listen to big bass and electric guitars, with a vocalist telling them how high the weed takes them, and how good the sex is - or with a vocalist telling them to live for Christ and to renounce a sinful world.

Which has more potential to "solve the problem" smart guy?

Peace.

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No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

Cizinec: closed-mindedness in EITHER direction is equally bad. Yes, I agree, it sickens me that everybody under the age of 20 cannot broaden his/her scope and they only listen to what the Entertainment Corporate Elite decides for them what they should listen to (Destiny's Child, American Idol, Dashboard Confessional, etc.).....all along deceptively believing that they CHOSE this form of music because of their own tastes....pffffff. But the opposite sickens me as well: people who think that unless you dress yourself with Fred Perry or Armani clothing, play golf, have a white-collar job, drive a gas-guzzling, Arab-murdering SUV, listen to Classical/Baroque/Romantic/20th Century Compositional Music, vote Republican (or Democrat, sincin' their both the same thing), and eat at restaurants where you can't get a shrimp cocktail for under $15, then you are obviously some boorish, Neanderthal, backwards inbred who is not fit to live.

Well, of the groups you listed as great, I've heard two glorious Beastie Boys albums. They are trash. They (or their producers, at any rate) use pre-recording music and "say" (I don't even think what they do can be classified as rap, it's so bloody bad) disgusting or stupid lyrics over the top.

I was actually around when Afrika Bambaataa's albums were coming out and break dancing was all the rage.

I've heard Salt-N-Peppa way back when.

And, for crying out loud, I hear it 7 days a week screaming out of teenagers cars!!! It's all over the radio, now we have a Spanish language hip-hop station, which I have briefly endured, and it's played on television shows and in movies. How in the bleeding world could I *NOT* hear it??

idln, you also provide us with a false dichotomy. List two "types" of people and ask us to choose which one or to go between the two. The world is a lot more complex than what you folks are presenting.

Matthew, I have a right to an opinion of the music I hear incessantly from society that I am told is called hiphop. You can argue that I can't judge the Roots album. You can't argue that I can't say I can't stand the genre, as I can't STOP hearing it.

Matthew, I have a right to an opinion of the music I hear incessantly from society that I am told is called hiphop. You can argue that I can't judge the Roots album. You can't argue that I can't say I can't stand the genre, as I can't STOP hearing it.

There is a difference between commercialized fake hip-hop and the real stuff. It is like apples and oranges. Chances are, you've only heard what they play on TRL.

Don't be stupid; we are dealing with situations that require practical solutions, not logically possible solutions - so there is no dichotomy.

The discussion was under the acceptable presumption that there are kids out there ALREADY CONDITIONED to a particular sort of music. Redirecting the focus of this music is obviously the most PRACTICAL solution; or do you suggest we go around and hand out liturgical CD's?

Peace.

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No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus

EA, we have radically different opinions of the abilities of young minds to adapt.

Matthew, ever heard of the Digable Planets? I used to love those guys. I saw them in concert. I wasn't that fond of the rap, but, man, they could jam.

You are the one who mentioned the "Beastie Boys," not me. I'm pretty sure that they're commercial. About once a month I get exposed to "underground" hiphop from Pacifica radio (our local socialist station). I don't like that crap any more than I like Beastie Boys. I don't spend much time memorizing the names of the "artists" since I can't stand the stuff. I don't think, "Hey, that was really aweful! I need to write down the name of the band and run out to buy the album!"

Some of the kids at work are always trying to convert me to your side of this. They give me CDs to "convert" me. It doesn't work because I think it STINKS.

cizinec: Being a lover of all kinds of music, I am lacking in my compositional section in my CD collection. But, unfortunately, I don't even know where to begin. Could you guide me to collections, symphonies, albums, etc. that are good? (p.s. I am not a big fan of the Romantic Era).....where do I start?

What I hate about alot of rap is how they steal and sample from other accomplished artist songs and then make some cheesy rap out of it (a la Sean Puffy Combs). What I hate also are all the dum little white boys with their pants sagging down with the backwards hat as if they just stepped out of South Central LA. I always make sure to make some kind of comment to these morons when I'm out. What also pisses me off are the idiots with heavy bass blasting when your out driving and it literally shakes your car and disrupts the peace. There is much better music out there than rap.

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"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Now that I’m writing all this, the best thing to do is enroll in a music appreciation class. The class includes several CDs of basic music that takes you through the important periods. Once you’re done with that, take the first music theory class. It’s well worth the effort.

Unfortunately, Karl Haas died in February. Since he did the show for over forty years, they have a lot of great old programs they are sending out over sinidication. Those shows are a great way to get introduced to music. If your NPR station doesn't carry the program, you can still listen to it on several NPR stations that have webcasts. You can find out the times here.

But the opposite sickens me as well: people who think that unless you dress yourself with Fred Perry or Armani clothing, play golf, have a white-collar job, drive a gas-guzzling, Arab-murdering SUV, listen to Classical/Baroque/Romantic/20th Century Compositional Music, vote Republican (or Democrat, sincin' their both the same thing), and eat at restaurants where you can't get a shrimp cocktail for under $15, then you are obviously some boorish, Neanderthal, backwards inbred who is not fit to live.

I honestly think you're missing something here.

Most of the folks with whom I have to deal professionally make a great deal more money than me. They are very judgemental about cars, suits and restaurants. Most of them know absolutely nothing about any type of music other than pop, hiphop or classic rock.

Do I think that a group of people who shut themselves off from the higher forms of music because they don't want to learn it are boorish, backwards Neanderthals? If I were to give a generic answer I'd have to say yes.

Quality music doesn't cost a dime more than crap. There are plenty of educational programs offered FOR FREE from radio stations, television, local libraries and the internet. In fact, you'll find quality music to be MORE accessible than popular pig swill.

I think the rich elitists you are describing are more likely to be hiphop junkies or classic rock headbangers than people who get their feathers ruffled when discussing the Morimur album. Most of the folks who discuss that stuff are poor or middle class musicians, students, professors and average, interested people.

I broke up with a girl from the Czech Republic when I was 23 because she didn't like jazz. Man, that's America's "Classical" music. I always defer to my father-in-law on that subject. I do have a couple of Bird (Charlie Parker) albums on LP that we listen to time and again.

"Jazz-Rap was an attempt to fuse African-American music of the past with a newly dominant form of the present, paying tribute to and reinvigorating the former while expanding the horizons of the latter. While the rhythms of jazz-rap came entirely from hip-hop, the samples and sonic textures were drawn mainly from cool jazz, soul-jazz, and hard bop. It was cooler and more cerebral than other styles of hip-hop, and many of its artists displayed an Afrocentric political consciousness, complementing the style's historical awareness. Given its more intellectual bent, it's not surprising that jazz-rap never really caught on as a street favorite, but then it wasn't meant to. Jazz-rap styled itself as a more positive alternative to the hardcore/gangsta movement taking over rap's mainstream at the dawn of the '90s, and concerned itself with spreading hip-hop to listeners unable to embrace or identify with the music's increasing inner-city aggression. As such, jazz-rap found its main audiences in places like college campuses, and was also embraced by a number of critics and white alternative rock fans. Afrika Bambaataa's Native Tongues posse — a loose collective of New York-based, Afrocentric rap groups — was the most important force in jazz-rap, including groups like A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and the Jungle Brothers; Digable Planets and Gang Starr were other notable early artists. During the mid- to late '90s, as alternative rap moved into a wider-ranging eclecticism, jazz-rap was not often pursued as an exclusive end, although the Roots frequently incorporated it in their live-instrumentation hip-hop."http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2920

"lol....I'm listening to Jaco Pastorius' self-titled album even as we speak. "Jaco era Weather Report records is great stuff!Also check him out with Joni Mitchell on the Mingus and Shadows and Light live records

Kanye West - Jesus Walks Lyrics Yo, We at warWe at war with terrorism, racism but most of all we at war with ourselves(Jesus Walks)God show me the way because the Devil trying to break me down(Jesus Walks with me) with me with me with me [fades]

You know what the Midwest is?Young & RestlessWhere restless Niggaz might snatch your necklaceAnd next these Niggaz might jack your LexusSomebody tell these Niggaz who Kanye West isI walk through the valley of Chi where death isTop floor the view alone will leave you breathless Uhhhh!Try to catch it Uhhhh! It's kinda hard hardGetting choked by the detectives yeah yeah now check the methodThey be asking us questions, harass and arrest usSaying "we eat pieces of xxxx like you for breakfast"Huh? Yall eat pieces of xxxx? What's the basis?We ain't going nowhere but got suits and casesA trunk full of coke rental car from AvisMy momma used to say only Jesus can save usWell momma I know I act a foolBut I'll be gone til November I got packs to move I Hope

[HOOK x2](Jesus Walks)God show me the way because the Devil trying to break me down(Jesus Walks with me)The only thing that I pray is that me feet don't fail me now(Jesus Walks)And I don't think there is nothing I can do now to right mywrongs(Jesus Walks with me)I want to talk to God but I'm afraid because we ain't spoke inso long

To the hustlas, killers, murderers, drug dealers even thestrippersTo the victims of Welfare for we living in hell here hell yeahNow hear ye hear ye want to see Thee more clearlyI know he hear me when my feet get wearyCuz we're the almost nearly extinctWe rappers as role models we rap we don't thinkI ain't here to argue about his facial featuresOr here to convert atheists into believersI'm just trying to say the way school need teachersThe way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way yall need JesusSo here go my single dog radio needs thisThey say you can rap about anything except for JesusThat means guns, sex, lies, video tapesBut if I talk about God my record won't get played Huh?Well let this take away from my spinsWhich will probably take away from my endsThen I hope this take away from my sinsAnd bring the day that I'm dreaming aboutNext time I'm in the club everybody screaming out

(Jesus Walks)God show me the way because the devil trying to break me down(Jesus Walks)The only thing that I pray is that me feet don't fail me now

For those who know the underground scene...Hip Hop starts with the beats. Check out Busdriver, Common Scence, Aesop Rock (but he cusses alot like everyone in N.Y.), Vast Air, Cannibal Ox, Mark Farina...Mushroom Jazz(good down tempo beats.), People Under the Stairs, Invisible Scratch Pickles...RJD2, Q-Bert, Freestyle Fellowship, Blackalicious, definately check out anything by Dj Drez or Medusa. Remember to listen to God's word and your conscience more than any of this music and get a cd of some french western orthodox liturgy( real good stuff like you've never heard before). Keep up the good tunes and beats. when things seem to fall apart, ask His mercy into your heart.Get up off your feet. hit your knees. thats how we start. Orthodox in the Heezy!! yey yey!

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Heaven is full of people who do not deserve to be there and oddly absent of those who think they do.

Some of my favorites back in the day were Del the funky homosapien,all of Hieroglyphics-Casual- most, Aceyalone, Freestyle Fellowship, Gang Starr, The Roots, MC Solaar(French). Now I'm pretty much out of the rap scene completely but still enjoy hearing some "oldies but goodies", but don't seek them out or play them deliberately, it makes me want to dance, and I'm too out of shape to want to dance

If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

^LOL. Did you look this thread up to say that, or do you just happen to have a slew of bad jokes that you can whip out whenever needed?

The answers that you Sikh can be found within.

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If you will, you can become all flame.Extra caritatem nulla salus.In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness". सर्वभूतहितἌνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas GandhiY dduw bo'r diolch.

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.--"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18--I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --Life went on no matter who was wrong or right

Don't let non-heads say otherwise: hip-hop is an umbrella term for an emergent urban (not PC here, was ethnically diverse) phenomenon beginning around the very early 80's perhaps very late 70's, of which "rap" is an element albeit the most widespread and well-known.