I have beef. Namely with the whole Top 5 bit. For instance, I know for a fact that no matter how incomplete Xenosaga 1's plot was, it at least had Albedo over FFXIII-1's Space Pope/Robogod (also it didn't need retconning to spin a mostly irrelevant sequel off of).

And don't forget about Too Human. That should've been on there more than at least Oblivion (say what you will about not being the lord and savior of the game but at least it tried something different (even if it resulted in the game falling flat on its face in execution), compared to Space Norsemen).

And then there's crap like The 3rd Birthday which was an even more thorough character assassination than Metroid: Other M was. Mass Effect 3's letdown was goddamn pedestrian compared to waiting nearly a full decade for that.

And I'm not even touching anything stuck in Japan, anything made before the PS2 era, or anything Indie or RPGMaker made.

/beef having

That said, I know you tried, but picking only the top 5 worst stinkers out there is a fool's errand.

Just remember to keep in mind that it's Rob's Top 5-- not an RPGFan top 5 or an 'Overall, all time Top 5."

And Rob's beef with XS1 was that... actually, I'm just going to copy-paste what I wrote on Facebook.

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I think Xenosaga episode 1 had great WORLD BUILDING, but almost nothing in terms of narrative. It introduced fascinating characters and then did almost nothing with them--I watched it entirely online, and then played XS2 and 3, and found them to be, narratively speaking, much better games. I think Rob's issue is more with the fact that it spends so much time building up a conflict, and then when that conflict happens... "here's a thing to fight, okay end." Comparatively little happens in XS1 versus 2 and 3. Also, as the music guy, I must link to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zFLYzlSjm4 (XS2 spoilers)

and also

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I dunno-- as a movie, I enjoyed it, but I've always felt that if you're going to create characters, you can't just 'TELL' me who they are, you have to show me-- and I think XS1 sort of failed in that regard. They threw plenty of "this is who Ziggy/Jr./chaos" are because exposition, but had relatively little in the way of those characters actually doing anything that made me understand them as characters. It was enjoyable, but I think as a prologue chapter it could have done a lot more-- especially in light of how fantastic the character development and actual narrative "action" were in 2 and 3-- so much more happened in those games in terms of scope as compared to XS1.

I do agree that worldbuilding and character development are essential, though. I'd go as far as to say character development is the MOST important facet of any RPG story.

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Friends, waffles, work. Or waffles, friends, work. Doesn't matter, but work is third.

Just remember to keep in mind that it's Rob's Top 5-- not an RPGFan top 5 or an 'Overall, all time Top 5."

This. I'm not arguing that Rob made bad picks, just that if we all got together and wrote up lists of stories we were disappointed by, there'd be some doozies, and it'd be a long list. :)

Of course, the other aspect of "underwhelming" is that it carries the assumption that you thought a game would have a good story, but it didn't. For example, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel has a story that is stupid and terrible and doesn't fit with the canon Fallout universe. But I wouldn't call it underwhelming, because I didn't expect it to have a good story.

Edit: Looked at my list of scores and was reminded of White Knight Chronicles 2 and Paper Mario Sticker Star. I would say that both of them have underwhelming stories. WKC2 appeared to be this big, epic thing, but the developers didn't seem to think that its story was even worth telling. Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door had an awesome story, and although it wasn't much of an RPG, Super Paper Mario had a good one as well. Sticker Star, however, felt like it had a story almost as an afterthought.

Of course, the other aspect of "underwhelming" is that it carries the assumption that you thought a game would have a good story, but it didn't. For example, Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel has a story that is stupid and terrible and doesn't fit with the canon Fallout universe. But I wouldn't call it underwhelming, because I didn't expect it to have a good story.

So, would you say that you were, all in all, simply whelmed by Fallout: BoS' story?

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o/` I do not feel joy o/`o/` I do not dream o/`o/` I only stare at the door and smoke o/`

I am disappointed that Sands of Destruction did not make the list. I went into that expecting something awesome and came out with a shallow copy of Xenogears storyline that didn't understand what made Xenogears great and the stupidest villian plot that I have ever seen.

I never really liked the plot of Xenogears much after beating it, too many underdeveloped characters and some plot devices that never got fleshed out very well or even at all.

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I mostly pop in occasionally to give my two cents on certain controversial things, so if you disagree then send a PM, because I generally don't check for replies in threads in case I feel like replying and then things get heated/derailed.

Err... I've only played two eroge, to be honest. Yeah, some love adventure/dating sim dorknerd I am:P Anyway, Crescendo was spectacular. Let's Meow Meow! was beyond ridiculous, but it's a guilty pleasure. Okay, so EVE: Burst Error and Tea Society of a Witch had the naughty bits cut out for their US releases, but I can't count those since I didn't get the naughty bits.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 10:31:06 PM by Dincrest »

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"I think I'm losing it. I'm pulling out my hair trying to figure out what couch defines me as a person. This is freaking madness. This is hopeless. This... my perfect little habitat here, and I still don't even know who I am." - from Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom by Burnt By The Sun