One thing, though, to make the pies even better...concentrate a bit more on the shaping & stretching when opening the skins. There's a little weak spot in the first pic's undercrust. Been there, done that and found that a properly formed skin bakes up much better, imho.

Other than that, I'm glad you're enjoying the formula so far.

Logged

Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein

Out of this list, I think the Bailey shelves show the most promise. The reference to cone 11 is encouraging as is the 'dry pressed' reference. I am concerned about the rough surface of the shelves in the picture, though, as well as the possibility for a minimum order.

I get the feeling that even with a higher quantity of alumina, these shelves might not cut it at 580. I've written all these companies (and more) looking for specs on their shelves, and, while most of the companies got back to me, no one has been able to give me figures. As long as you get a thick enough shelf (minimum .75" and preferably 1"), these will outperform your present shelf, but I don't think they're going to get you down to a 4 minute bake, which is where you want to be.

scott123

Mike, the odds that the Bailey stone will perform significantly differently than your SF stone are pretty low, but that doesn't mean that I'm not curious. From a research perspective, it would be incredibly invaluable to see how these two stones perform with the same dough.

One thing, though, to make the pies even better...concentrate a bit more on the shaping & stretching when opening the skins. There's a little weak spot in the first pic's undercrust. Been there, done that and found that a properly formed skin bakes up much better, imho.

Other than that, I'm glad you're enjoying the formula so far.

Thanks.

Yeah, I definitely have a ways to go with my stretching/tossing skills.Going to check with some local pottery supply shops this week. If that doesn't work out, I'll pick one up online.

I tried this dough formulation with the KABF yesterday and had some problems. The dough seemed dryer than normal for a 63% hydration dough. I mixed the oil in with the water, sugar and yeast and then added the flour and salt. I went with it but it barely fermented after 24hrs in the fridge. No rise whatsoever. No clue what happened. I have the dough balls out of the fridge now to see if that helps.

I tried this dough formulation with the KABF yesterday and had some problems. The dough seemed dryer than normal for a 63% hydration dough. I mixed the oil in with the water, sugar and yeast and then added the flour and salt. I went with it but it barely fermented after 24hrs in the fridge. No rise whatsoever. No clue what happened. I have the dough balls out of the fridge now to see if that helps.

Nate

Do you know what your water temp was? or final dough temp? I tend to let mine rise a room temp for about an hour before moving it to the fridge. Also possible your yeast is old or partially dead.

Anyway after a few months traveling, including a week in Naples (topic coming soon), I needed to get my hands in dough. Per my kids request I 'had' to make pizza. Luckily the local pizzeria was still ok with me buying a 6 pound block of their Arrezzio WM mozzarella. Flour (100%) Water (63%)ADY (.3%)Salt (1.8%)Oil (2%)Sugar (2%)

Bulk fermented at 38F for around 30 hours, balled, then back into the fridge for 12 hours and removed an hour before baking. Preheated for 1.5 hours (stone temp around 580F) then switched to the broiler for 30 minutes, flipping it on/off every time it would go off on its own. This brought the stone temp up to 615F!! (recorded before launching the first pie). First pie (garlic/eggplant) baked in just under 5 minutes, including 1 minute with the broiler on. The following two pies were left too long, around 5:40 and ended up a bit too crisp.

Now that I'm confident the oven can hit over 600F, it's time to order a kiln shelf. Looks like the Bailey pottery 16x18 3/4 should fit perfectly http://www.baileypottery.com/kilnfurniture/kilnshelves.htmI don't see a WFO in the near future so I'll stick to NY for now. Good chance I'll end up back in Naples in a few months.

scott123

The difference in quality between wholesale cheese and retail cheese is night and day. You can, with a little luck, and some additional fat/oil, get a supermarket cheese to melt like this, but it's not easy.

scott123

Pizza bakes with stored heat, not just the heat on the surface of the stone. While using the broiler to pre-heat the stone might drive up the surface temp, it doesn't drive up the core temp, and the core temp is where it really matters. I'm not telling you to nix the broiler re-heat- it does trim a little from the bake time, but the 615 benchmark that you hit is not a realistic representation of what the oven is capable of. If I had to guess, I'd say that the broiler gave you an effective bump of about 5 degrees, putting you at 585.

My feelings are shifting a bit on high alumina kiln shelves. There are no regulations governing how the shelves are labeled or what they can contain. I'm not talking about safety. Kiln shelves are safe to bake on. But the term 'high alumina' doesn't necessarily mean much, nor do the other claims on the Bailey website. Someone definitely needs to, at some point, test the Bailey shelves, but between the fact that they haven't been proven and your low-ish 585 peak temp, I don't think that person should be you. It's too much of a crapshoot. Mike's SF shelf is a proven performer. I can't guarantee you how much time it's going to trim, but at least, unlike Bailey, it has a track record. If you want to go the ceramic route, that's the stone I'd go with. If, on the other hand, you want to guarantee a 4 minute bake, then I'd suggest steel. One nice thing about steel is that, with your 585 peak temp, you don't have to buy as heavy of a stone as other members here have. You should be able to get away with 3/8" steel.

All THAT being said another thing to consider is that there may not be a reason to trim any more time off the bake. I generally push people towards 4 minute bakes when their oven setup is producing 7+ minute pies. 5 minute pies, though, that look as good as yours? If you're curious about a slightly shorter bake time, sure, make the investment, but you might not see a vast improvement. Also, if crispiness is important you, then 4 might not even be the right direction, as the crust will soften up as you decrease the bake time.

Awesome looking pies! What's the "secret" to getting the cheese to look like that? I've gotten that look a few times but not consistently. Thanks!

Thanks Seven. The key to the cheese looking like that is lots of bottom heat, low thickness factor and food service mozzarella, as Scott said. It is pitiful how bad retail WM low moisture mozzarella tastes/melts.

Pizza bakes with stored heat, not just the heat on the surface of the stone. While using the broiler to pre-heat the stone might drive up the surface temp, it doesn't drive up the core temp, and the core temp is where it really matters. I'm not telling you to nix the broiler re-heat- it does trim a little from the bake time, but the 615 benchmark that you hit is not a realistic representation of what the oven is capable of. If I had to guess, I'd say that the broiler gave you an effective bump of about 5 degrees, putting you at 585.

My feelings are shifting a bit on high alumina kiln shelves. There are no regulations governing how the shelves are labeled or what they can contain. I'm not talking about safety. Kiln shelves are safe to bake on. But the term 'high alumina' doesn't necessarily mean much, nor do the other claims on the Bailey website. Someone definitely needs to, at some point, test the Bailey shelves, but between the fact that they haven't been proven and your low-ish 585 peak temp, I don't think that person should be you. It's too much of a crapshoot. Mike's SF shelf is a proven performer. I can't guarantee you how much time it's going to trim, but at least, unlike Bailey, it has a track record. If you want to go the ceramic route, that's the stone I'd go with. If, on the other hand, you want to guarantee a 4 minute bake, then I'd suggest steel. One nice thing about steel is that, with your 585 peak temp, you don't have to buy as heavy of a stone as other members here have. You should be able to get away with 3/8" steel.

All THAT being said another thing to consider is that there may not be a reason to trim any more time off the bake. I generally push people towards 4 minute bakes when their oven setup is producing 7+ minute pies. 5 minute pies, though, that look as good as yours? If you're curious about a slightly shorter bake time, sure, make the investment, but you might not see a vast improvement. Also, if crispiness is important you, then 4 might not even be the right direction, as the crust will soften up as you decrease the bake time.

Thanks for the kind words Scott. Soon after you posted I had the opportunity to hunt for a piece of steel. The only 1/2 inch a36 they had on the lot, was pitted and rusted. So instead I had them cut a 3/8 16x17.5" stainless plate. I know it won't be near as conductive but should make for some interesting experiments. It's in the oven preheating now. If it isn't useful as a 'stone' it will become my new prep surface.

Preheated for around an hour and 15 minutes to 586F...really surprised how quick it heated up. I had one dough ball left from last night made out of 00. 100% 500g Caputo Pizzeria65% 325g Water2% 10g Sea salt.6% 3g Active dry yeast279 per ball. Both pies were stretched to about 13.5", very thin. Last night's pie was baked on the stone for just over 5 minutes, with the broiler on for the final minute. Today's pizza baked on the SS for 4 minutes 10 seconds(my time keeper was home from school), with the broiler on for the final minute. The difference is amazing...the SS pie came out perfectly tender and slightly crisp without any bottom burning.