Nest vs. Lyric vs. Ecobee vs. Carrier Côr

Nest vs. Lyric vs. Ecobee vs. Carrier Côr

By Bethuel Cruz - 11/17/2017

I’ve never been a fan of boring intros and this article is long enough. So let’s get right to it. We’re going to compare smart thermostats. Nest offers the Nest Learning Thermostat now on its 3rd iteration and the Nest Thermostat E. Honeywell offers the Lyric Round, T5, and T6 Pro. Ecobee offers the ecobee3, ecobee3 Lite, and ecobee4, while Carrier has the Cor 7-Day Programmable, Cor 5C, and Cor 7C. Hands-on we’ve tested ecobee 3 and Nest E, viewing Nest Learning, Lyric, and Cor devices at CES.

That said, if you don’t want to read all the details, each section below has a “winner” category so that you can catch the highlights.

Nest vs. Lyric vs. ecobee vs. Carrier Cor Pricing and Functionality

All of the thermostats mentioned above are priced between $130 and $300. Nest Learning Thermostat, Lyric Round, ecobee3, ecobee4, and Cor 7-day all sell for around $200 to $300. The Cor 5C sells for $139 while the 7C, ecobee Lite, and Nest E all sell for $169.

But how does price affect functionality? All four companies have different concepts and ideas. Nest has a Learning Thermostat. It adapts based on how you set it, and over time, it learns to set itself according to what it observes. It takes about a month for this process to kick in. With further manual fine-tuning, Nest will continue to learn, furthering the automation process. Nest also offers Home/Away Assist (geofencing) and custom schedules.

Lyric, on the other hand, takes pride in its Geofencing Feature. You don’t need to set Lyric manually to save energy if you’re going out. Let’s say, for example, that you are going to work. Lyric automatically sets itself to Away Mode when you leave your predefined geofence radius, saving you energy as your house doesn’t need to be cozy when you’re away. And as soon as you enter back inside the geofence radius, Lyric starts warming up or cooling down your home, so it’s comfy when you arrive. On both the 1st and 2nd generation Lyrics, the geofence radius can be defined between a quarter mile and 2,000 miles.

Ecobee offers yet another kind of automation. Ecobee’s website says that the device “knows you have a life.” It knows that teaching a thermostat is time-consuming. So, it’s pre-set with schedules that match “most people.” For example, ecobee3 knows that most people are asleep between 11:00 PM and 6:30 AM, so it automatically sets itself to Asleep Mode during those hours.

And finally, ecobee offers geofencing for both Android and iOS users. Geofencing makes it easy to swap between Home and Away mode. For HomeKit users (iOS), geofencing can also trigger scenes. As an alternative, you can use IFTTT to trigger actions based on your location.

Cor thermostats are pretty basic. There’s no geofencing, no presence detection, and no learning feature. It’s a plain old programmable thermostat that offers smartphone control.

Winner:

Ecobee3 Lite and Nest E. Ecobee3 Lite offers a lot of features at a lower price. The only missing feature, when compared to ecobee3, is that Lite lacks humidifier, dehumidifier, and ventilator control, and it doesn’t have a built-in occupancy sensor. But don’t worry, Lite works with ecobee3’s room sensors to help you detect occupancy. If you prefer Nest’s concept, the Nest Thermostat E is a good option. For the same price as the ecobee3 Lite, Nest E offers all the features of the original Nest Thermostat. It’s a matter of preference between the two companies.

Will They Work In Your Home?

Now, some of you may already have a favorite, but a question still has to be answered before you choose. Will it work in your home?

Sensing Your Presence and Multi-Room Comfort

The advantage of having a smart thermostat is that it knows when to fire up the heat and when to dial it down based on your presence. Adding multi-room comfort makes that experience even more enjoyable and also reduces energy waste, one of the main reasons to purchase a smart thermostat to begin with.

NEST

Learns

Activity Sensors

Geofencing

Works with Nest

Going forward, we’ll refer to both the Nest Thermostat 3rd Gen and the Nest Thermostat E as “Nest” as they offer the same set of features. They only differ in compatibility and design, which we will discuss under the section Device Design.

Nest uses a combination of machine learning, activity sensors, and geofencing to know when someone’s home. First, it learns your schedule. Eventually, it will learn which days you are home and which days you are not. However, if its activity sensor detects activity, it will override the learned schedule, moving straight to Home Mode. And if you happen to come home and don’t feel like moving around, Nest can use your phone’s location to know if you’re home or not, a.k.a. geofencing.

With the help of Works With Nest devices, multi-room presence and comfort are made possible. And while adding devices from the program MIGHT tell your thermostat what room you are in and what the temperature is in that room, depending upon the device’s capabilities, it’s an expensive option for those who only want to automate temperature. Devices such as MyQ can tell Nest if you’re home or not. And Zuli can sense when you’ve walked into a room, working to help adjust both the temperature and your lights accordingly.

LYRIC

Geofencing

Shortcuts

Lyric relies mainly on geofencing, but it can also create shortcuts based upon trends. For example, if you set Lyric to Away mode at around 6 pm on multiple days, it will create a shortcut of that event within the app so that you can access it next time you need it.

ECOBEE

Learns

Smart Schedules

Custom Schedule

Geofencing

Motion Sensing

Remote Sensors

Ecobee, on the other hand, uses smart schedules. These “smart schedules” are not based on you; they are based on what is considered normal. For example, most people are asleep between midnight and 5 a.m., so ecobee will assume you are too. But if your lifestyle doesn’t follow a normal schedule, you can customize and create your own. Although Ecobee follows a schedule, you can easily override it and set the temperature according to your liking. If you do so, Ecobee will ask you how long you want it to hold the temperature. You can set it for a couple of hours, until your next scheduled temperature change, or indefinitely.

Your phone’s location can also override your schedule using geofencing. So long as your smartphone is inside your home, ecobee will make sure the indoor temperature is comfy and cozy. Besides using the iOS or Android app, there are other ways you can enjoy geofencing, but that would require that you either have an IFTTT app, Apple HomeKit system, or SmartThings system.

What really sets ecobee apart from its competitors is its smart sensors. The ecobee3 and ecobee3 Lite both work with the 1st gen smart sensors. On the other hand, ecobee4 works with both the 1st gen sensors and new 2nd gen sensors that are sleeker and include a removable stand. The sensors measure your indoor temperature and detect activity. If you are in your bedroom, the sensors will know. Instead of making sure your hallway is the right temperature (old school thermostats), your heating/cooling system will kick in to obtain the right temperature in your bedroom as the sensors also measure temperature. And for those that want to know, the sensors are pet-friendly. They work similarly to adding Works with Nest devices to the Nest thermostat, but they are a more cost effective solution. Your initial equipment purchase (ecobee3 and ecobee4 only) includes one sensor, or you can buy a pack of two for $79.

The ecobee3 does have machine learning. Just not in the same sense that Nest [does]. The [device] learns how long it takes to heat or cool your house within a period of time of time, then uses this information and applies it to its Smart features, like Smart Recovery [pre-heat/cool the house before the next schedule change, so it’s already at the desired temperature] or Smart Home/Away [heating or cooling depending on if someone is home or not]. Nest will learn when you come and go. Ecobee doesn’t tie you to this schedule.

Cor

Programmable

Home, Away, Wake, Sleep Modes

Vacation Hold

Carrier’s Cor thermostats don’t detect presence, but you can tell them when you’ll be home and when you’ll be away by programming them. You can program Cor thermostats using four modes: Home, Away, Wake, and Sleep. All four modes come with customizable temperatures. If you want to override a mode, you can simply use Cor’s touchscreen display or your smartphone app. Finally, should you go on a trip, you can put your programmed schedule on hold using Vacation Mode. It sets your temperature to a safe range that won’t freeze your pipes and at the same time keeps your pets comfortable.

Winner:

In order: ecobee, Nest, Lyric, then Cor. What sets ecobee apart is its ability to work with its remote sensors. While Nest can also detect activity, multi-room detection requires the purchase of other smart devices. Ecobee can sense presence from any room with a remote sensor, which is easier and more cost-effective.

Saving Energy

I’d wager that one of the most important questions you can answer about a smart thermostat is, “Which one will provide the greatest energy/cost savings?”

NEST

Learns

Nest Leaf

Nest Sense

Reporting

Nest has lots of tricks up its sleeves to help you save energy. First, it uses what it learns from your behavior to conserve energy. This process is automated, so you don’t have to worry about it. Second, through Nest Leaf – a leaf logo that shows up whenever your thermostat is saving energy – it can teach you how to implement energy saving settings. Third, through the use of Nest Sense, the brains of your Nest Thermostat, it detects and responds intelligently to different scenarios. For example, if you’re using the AC, Nest will periodically turn the air off and turn on your AC’s built-in fan to help evenly distribute cool air. Or, if direct sunlight is affecting your thermostat’s temperature reading, Nest will recognize the cause and adjust accordingly. Finally, Nest automatically saves energy when no one’s home. This feature is called Eco Temperature. When Nest senses that everyone is away it sets itself to a temperature that saves energy while still keeping it comfortable for other things like pets and plants. You can also manually activate Eco Temperature using the Nest App or the thermostat’s interface. At the end of each month, you will receive a report showing how much energy you’ve saved.

LYRIC

Weather Aware

Lyric’s Weather Aware feature will save you energy. The feature looks at how fast your home cools and heats. It also looks at the effect of the outside temperature on your home’s internal temperature. Finally, it keeps track of the weather and temperature outside before deciding to fire up your furnace – or not.

ECOBEE

Learns

Profiling

Multi-room Intelligence Included

Ecobee can save you energy by profiling your home. It understands how fast your home cools or heats up and how the outside temperature affects the process. For example, if it’s freezing outside, it may take your home longer to heat up. If that’s the case, it may start heating up your home earlier than usual so that it’s ready before your kids arrive home at 4 PM.

Finally, ecobee uses its remote sensors. As it knows which rooms are occupied and the temperature in each occupied room, guesswork is eliminated from the equation.

Cor

Thermal Characteristics Profiling

4-Day Weather Forecast

Energy Reports

Smart Setback

Cor can help you save in different ways. First, like ecobee, Cor profiles your home’s thermal characteristics. It helps the thermostat know when to heat up or dial down to reach your desired temperature without wasting energy. Second, it offers smart setbacks. Let’s say your desired Sleep Mode temperature is 72 degrees. Without smart setback, your HVAC will turn on the moment that the temperature isn’t reading at 72 degrees. Smart setback creates an allowance to keep your HVAC from working too hard. If your setback is 4 degrees, for example, your HVAC will only come on when you hit 68 degrees or 76. The third feature is 4-day weather forecasts. By checking the forecast before programming your thermostat, you can optimize your home’s temperature while minimizing energy waste. Cor also lets you track your progress in the form of Energy Reports. Here, you can see how much energy you’ve saved and how much you will be able to save using your current settings. It also provides customized energy-saving tips tailored to your habits.

Winner:

Nest, followed closely by ecobee. The main reason Nest wins is that it learns. Once it learns, it does all of the work. Of course, further fine-tuning can result in greater energy savings, but you don’t have to help – if you don’t want to.

Smart Home Compatibility

NEST

The Nest Learning Thermostat and the Nest Thermostat E are part of the Works with Nest program, which is one of the fastest growing home automation families. The family includes all Nest Cam and Nest Cam IQ models, Scout, Mercedes, Whirlpool, Chamberlain, Hue, August, and several other home automation players. Through the Works with Nest program, the Learning Thermostat is made even more intelligent.

Nest Thermostat, Nest Protect, and Nest Cam are key players in the Works with Nest program. When you connect a Nest Cam or Nest Protect to your thermostat, it becomes even more intelligent. The other devices will help your thermostat know whether or not someone’s home, will make temperature adjustments more intelligent, and can all be controlled from a single app. To make things even more convenient, there is an Apple Watch app for Nest products which can deliver notifications to your wrist. It also allows you to adjust the temperature or switch between Home or Eco Temperature mode from your watch.

LYRIC

Honeywell Lyric is the first smart thermostat brand to work with all three major AI assistants: Alexa, Siri (via HomeKit), and Google Assistant. It also works with SmartThings.

If you’re an Amazon Echo user, Lyric has two other Wi-Fi thermostats that also work with Alexa. The T5 is a $150 Wi-Fi thermostat with geofencing and scheduling features. The T6 Pro is a professionally-installed thermostat available only from Honeywell dealers. Both thermostats have a more traditional look and fewer smart features when compared to Lyric Round.

Finally, Lyric has its own IFTTT channel that is compatible with Lyric Round, Lyric Wi-Fi T5, and Lyric Wi-Fi T6 as well as the Lyric Water Leak & Freeze detector.

ECOBEE

Ecobee3, ecobee3 Lite, ecobee4, and the smart sensors all work with HomeKit as well, which means you can control them using Siri, iPods, iPhones, or iPads. You can also use ecobee’s Remote Sensors, which are motion sensors that work with your HomeKit system. They can tell your other HomeKit devices where you are in your house and whether there is activity or not.

There is also an Apple Watch app that allows you to see your remote sensor’s temperature reading, set the temperature, and switch between Home and Away. The ecobee thermostats serve three purposes for a HomeKit system:

It serves as an HVAC controller.

It serves as an occupancy sensor for the whole house (except the ecobee3 Lite as it doesn’t have a built-in occupancy sensor).

It serves as a motion sensor for the room where it is installed. The smart sensors also function as motion sensors for HomeKit, allowing you to set rules that trigger lights and other devices.

Besides HomeKit, ecobee can also connect with SmartThings and Wink systems. And finally, the thermostats work with Stringify, IFTTT, and Alexa.

IFTTT allows you to integrate ecobee with a number of devices and services that it can’t interact with otherwise. For example, IFTTT has a Life360 channel that can prompt your thermostat to set itself to Away Mode when the last family member leaves home. Or when your Netatmo Weather Station detects extreme temperatures, it can prompt ecobee to heat up your home to avoid freezing pipes, even if it’s set to Away Mode. As a reminder, Nest has an IFTTT channel as well. Thus, the same tricks will apply to either thermostat. With Stringify, you can create more complex rules. For example, “if my front door is left open for more than 3 minutes, turn ecobee off, but only if it’s after 5 pm.”

Alexa is another interesting integration. Through Alexa, you can control ecobee thermostats with your voice if you have an Alexa-enabled device. Simply say, “Alexa, ask ecobee to turn up the heat to 72 degrees” and she will set the temperature for you. The new ecobee Plus Skill also gives you control over your fans, schedules, and comfort zones.

What’s even more interesting is ecobee4’s Alexa integration. Not only can you control the thermostat with Alexa, you can speak with Alexa right through the thermostat’s speakers and far-field microphones. This is a smart move considering that both thermostats and voice control devices are typically placed in common areas of a house. By giving ecobee4 both functionalities, they are giving customers a chance to enjoy two technologies within one device.

Putting Alexa inside ecobee4 is one part of ecobee’s larger plan. Later this year, they will launch an Alexa Voice Service-enabled smart light switch called Switch+. Pricing and availability are TBD, but an invite-only pilot program is ongoing, so we should see Switch+ hit the market soon.

Finally, ecobee now works with Google Assistant, Google’s Alexa counterpart. Ecobee is the second (next to Honeywell Lyric) smart thermostat to work with all three major AI voice assistants: Alexa, Google Assistant, and Siri (via HomeKit).

Cor

The original Cor thermostat works with Amazon Echo. Using your voice, you can give commands like, “Alexa, set the thermostat to Home mode” or “Alexa, set the thermostat to 75 degrees.”

The 5C and 7C also work with Amazon Echo, Apple HomeKit, Wink, Caseta by Lutron, Savant, and Clare Controls.

Winner:

Ecobee4, followed by Nest and ecobee3. Ecobee4 is stuffed with the power of Amazon’s Alexa and also offers integrations with HomeKit, IFTTT, Stringify, SmartThings, Google Assistant, and Wink.

Nest Thermostat, Nest E, ecobee3, and ecobee3 Lite are all tied for second place. If you’re a HomeKit user, then you should choose ecobee3 over Nest. But if you’re into Works with Nest devices, then Nest is for you.

Equipment Maintenance

NEST

Shutoff Patterns

Notifications

Smart thermostats can help maintain your heating and cooling equipment (e.g. furnace, AC). Nest looks for shutoff patterns, which might indicate a problem with your furnace. If it finds shutoff patterns, it will send you a heads-up notification using the included app. If you’re using the original Nest Thermostat a message will also flash across its LCD screen. With a little heads-up, you should be able to call out the pros before the issue turns into a costly problem.

Lyric

Alerts of extreme conditions

Maintenance reminders

Lyric reminds you to have your thermostat serviced and maintained. It does so when your HVAC system needs cleaning, or when filters need to be replaced, etc. It also looks for extreme conditions, like if your furnace isn’t working as expected. Lyric can help keep your HVAC system running efficiently, and at the same time, lengthen your system’s lifespan.

ECOBEE

Shutoff Patterns

Notifications

Service Reminders

Ecobee (all three models) does the same thing. It checks your system for components that are not working or not working optimally. It also reminds you to have your system serviced and maintained by sending you in-app alerts. For example, it can remind you to have your furnace and ducts inspected and cleaned.

Cor

Customizable Reminders

Cor offers customizable UV lamp or humidifier pad replacement reminders. You can tell Cor to remind you either on a fixed schedule (every six months, every year, etc.) or based on your HVAC’s run time. The reminder will pop up on its screen and will be sent to your smartphone.

Winner:

Ecobee wins because it looks for more than just shutoff patterns. It can send you detailed alerts, warning of potential problems and reminding you to keep your HVAC system maintained.

Device Design

Design is a major factor for most smart devices, but especially a thermostat which sits in the front and center of your home.

NEST

Thin Profile

Far Sight

Clock Option

Color Options

Since its release in 2011, Nest Thermostat has received praise for its design. It’s simple, elegant, and forward-looking. The 3rd generation device has a thinner profile, only 1.21″, but sports a larger screen with a diameter of 2.08″ and has 480 x 480px. Aside from the thin profile, it sports a ring around the body which is used for adjusting the temperature without pulling out your smartphone. The ring comes in four color variations — the original stainless steel ring, a metal copper ring, a carbon-coated black ring, or white.

Nest also flaunts several functional design features. For example, the latest version of the thermostat includes a feature called Far Sight. An upgraded resolution, a clearer and brighter screen, and a larger display make it easier to see what’s on the screen from across the room. The screen can optionally double as an analog or digital clock, or you can leave it the way it is.

Although the original Nest Thermostat is aesthetically pleasing for those who like to show off their gadgets, some people prefer their thermostats subtle and plain. Nest created the Nest Thermostat E specifically to blend in. Unlike the original Nest Thermostat, Nest E’s screen isn’t big and bright. It’s almost an inch smaller in diameter, the resolution is lower (320 x 320px), and it has a watercolored appearance. Essentially, you will only be able to recognize what’s on the screen if you’re standing a few feet from it. Given its design, Nest E does not offer Farsight. However, that statement is somewhat misleading. Nest E will light up as you approached it, but you can only see the indoor temperature and target temperature, E lacks the option to double as a clock.

Another difference between the two thermostat models is the rotating ring. Where the original Nest features a polished metal ring, Nest E features a polycarbonate ring with a ceramic-feel. Finally, Nest Thermostat comes in four colors (white, copper, black, stainless steel) while Nest E comes in white.

LYRIC

Touch

Ironically, Lyric has regressed back to its original round design, which the company ditched 60 years ago. The recycled round design is equipped with a round dial interface and a touch-sensitive screen to control the temperature. Lyric is smaller than Nest, having only a 3” diameter, but it shares the same thickness as the Nest thermostat.

ECOBEE

Touch

Ecobee3 has retained a quadrilateral design. It is 100mm long and 100mm wide. It has a rectangular LCD in the middle with a touch-sensitive slider that controls your home’s temperature. There are also touch-sensitive buttons at the bottom of the screen. From left to right, the buttons are Menu, Live Weather, and Quick Changes. At the lower left-hand corner of its face is the motion sensor. One catch with ecobee is that many users are forced to install the backplate, which impacts the overall design of the product.

The basic design of all ecobee smart thermostats is the same. They are all quadrilateral in shape with curved edges, and they all have touch-sensitive screens.

Ecobee3 is the smallest, measuring 100 x 100mm (3.93 x 3.93 inches). Next to it is the ecobee3 Lite, with a slightly larger body that measures 102.88 x 102.88mm (4.05 x 4.05 inches). And the largest so far is ecobee4, which measures 109 x 109mm (4.29 x 4.29 in).

The smart sensors for ecobee3 and ecobee3 Lite also slightly differ from that of ecobee4. Size-wise, both sensors are the same. But in appearance, ecobee4’s sensor is sleeker, gray in color, and the motion sensor at the upper left portion isn’t as obvious as the ecobee3’s smart sensor.

Cor

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Cor has a quadrilateral design and a touchscreen display. The original model is 4 inches long on all sides and 1 inch deep. Specifics on the new models are not yet released. However, after a sneak peak at CES we do know that the 7C more closely resembles the Carrier Cor 7-Day. However, the 7C has an edge-to-edge display. The 5C lacks the color touchscreen found on the other two models.

Winner, Winner

We’ve covered price, functionality, features, and aesthetics, but there’s more. The bottom line is that features mean nothing if they don’t function. Originally, my overall pick was Nest because it delivered the most consistent app and feature performance, but that was over two years ago. Over the past couple of years, ecobee has improved their features, product lineup, and performance. In addition, they now offer the ecobee4, which is my current top pick. Ecobee4 is now available on Amazon. You can learn more about ecobee4 here. On the other hand, if you’re looking for a reliable smart thermostat and are willing to sacrifice the built-in Alexa feature of ecobee4, ecobee3 provides a lot for less.

Even though Nest is no longer my top pick, I still consider it to be a great smart thermostat. If you think its features suit your needs best click here to get started. That said, we recommend Nest E over Nest Learning for most users given that it has the same energy-saving and smart features as Nest Thermostat.

The bottom line is, we all have different HVAC needs. The best smart thermostat for you will depend on your unique situation.

Smart Thermostats Currently Not Recommended

Bosch BCC100

Bosch BCC100 ($169) is an Alexa-enabled touchscreen smart thermostat that looks more like a tablet than a thermostat. It works with or without internet. Without internet, you can only program two schedules: home or away. If you do connect it to Wifi, it will support up to four schedules. Yup, only four. Another blunder is its lack of geofencing or other smart features that detect occupancy. You either set a fixed schedule and follow it or set it every time you come and go.

LUX KONO Smart Thermostat

LUX KONO is a $149.99 HomeKit-enabled smart thermostat. In addition to working with HomeKit, it works with other voice assistants including Alexa and Google Assistant. While it’s a nice looking thermostat, it features a small 1.7×1.7” screen, which differentiates it from the other options which are screen dominant. KONO also offers geofencing and supports schedules. For the price, it offers a lot, but it lacks advanced rule based integrations via IFTTT and Stringify. Of course, HomeKit users can create rules using the Home app. KONO also lacks humidity level reporting.

45 Responses to "Nest vs. Lyric vs. Ecobee vs. Carrier Côr"

07/03/2017

Jesse

And now a complaint from the trailing edge of technology. A thermostat is REALLY just a switch. I wanted a thermostat that would be controllable by voice due to some physical limits in our family. By voice, all the ecobee will do is turn the temperature up, turn it down, or turn on/off. You cannot do anything else. Who cares when you leave work, or go to bed, or use the rec room! Who has such a predictable family life? Let it do what I tell it to do when I tell it, but it pretty much will not.

The higher order features aren’t all that reliable either. For one example, its outdoor temperature reporting is wildly unreliable but it goes out of its way to tell you the indoor temps wherever there’s a sensor. Why can’t I set a sensor or two outdoors in my particular micro-climate? I called the ecobee people who said that the temperature readings at the airport was good enough.

Also don’t expect this to replace an Echo device if you want to ask your Echo for music or anything else above the fidelity of a cheap phone. The tiny speaker aimed at the wall is muddy and there’s no way to connect the ecobee with a better one. The ecobee 4 is gadgetry for the sake of gadgetry and is a step backwards from the ecobee 3.

Does anyone know of a thermostat that supports geofencing for multiple iPhones? (And supports HomeKit?) My wife and I have different schedules. The thermostat should turn on when either of us are a few from miles from home, or go off when the last person has exited. Thanks.

Okay so reading all this still leaves be figuring out what will work for my application.

I have two thermos, one upstairs and one downstairs. The one upstairs is in the bedroom hallway. The downstairs one is in living area. Master bedroom downstairs rest of rooms upstairs.

I know I’d need to buy two smart thermos, but what’s be best for proper temperature settings for when we sleep at night. I’m guessing ecobee right because of remote sensors? My temps in room differ than outside of rooms because stupid community didn’t install jumper ducts, meaning air circulation is poor.

What do you guys think is my best option? At the end of the day I’m looking for comfort and energy savings/efficiency.

Yes you are right, ecobee3 is the way to go, i think they came out with a new mini version (havenot looked deep into it, but check it out) i have one upstairs and 1 remote sensor downstairs it works fine for me however my wife works from home so schedule does not change almost anything.
On the other hand if you want to fix your room- hallway temp issues just do a transfer of air, you can do this by just making a 12×12 or less hole on top of the doors and the install a grill back to back, with this you can manage to have better air movement between rooms and outside.!!!

The Ecobee3 extra sensors win the day for my house. I have a home office with files that need to be locked up where the thermostat is located, and guest areas are on the same A/C.

However, my question is duty cycle. I would love to have a thermostat that let you put upper and lower lower limits on the duty cycle for the A/C and for the blower separately. Anyway to accomplish this even in a kludged fashion?

I was hoping someone might happen to swing by with an answer for you. To be honest, I’m not 100% sure what a duty cycle is. I did install ecobee recently so I have one I can explore for you. Is this related to the compressor? From the settings menu, you can set a “Compressor Min Cycle Off Time”. The time is adjustable between 240 and 900 seconds. Basically, you are setting the minimum amount of time the compressor must remain off between cycles.

I went ahead and bought the Ecobee3 because of the extra sensor. In my previous page, I asked about “duty cycle,” which is simply the percentage of time something is in use.

The ecobee3 does allow (under Settings) one to set the minimum duty cycle for the fan when in auto mode (in minutes per hour rather than %). This allows one to make sure you get some air circulation when the temperature is fine, but you just want some fresh air. Unfortunately their current software does not allow this to be set separately for the comfort settings (Home, Sleep, etc). During the day circulating the air without cooling delivers a very hot blast of air (attic ducts), during the night you just deliver fresh air. Thus this feature needs to be tied to the comfort settings, not the global settings. Likewise, setting a maximum duty cycle for the compressor could prioritize cost savings when electricity is expensive and also prevent coil freeze up during high humidity.

Maybe ecobee can tie duty cycle to comfort settings in future software updates. I will probably look to 3rd party software if they don’t.

If you are talking about the bricking conversation (Why is NEST sunsetting products?), the answer is no. In 2014, Nest purchased a small company that made a smart home hub called Revolv. They took the talent from the company and absorbed them into the Works with Nest program while continuing limited support for Revolv users. Earlier this month they bricked the product. They’ve completely shut down the ability to use the hub, it no longer works at all. Those that bought into the platform now have a $300 paperweight and people aren’t happy about it – understandably. If that doesn’t answer your question, can you clarify please?

Can anyone help me? I have a 2 story townhouse, and cant really decide on nest or ecobee, seems like ecobee will be best fit by putting a sensor downstairs, but nest has geofence so it will also now if i am in the house ..so kinda confused there, on the other hand what does it mean that the ecobee is not family compatible but nest is? I read that in cnet. Thanks anyone.

You could create a rule via IFTTT to add geofencing to ecobee, but I’ve found that IFTTT geofencing isn’t always reliable. Your best bet is to use sensors, like you mentioned. I can’t say for sure what they meant by “family compatible”, but I feel pretty positive they mean family access. Right now, you can’t have separate logins for family members with ecobee. Instead, you share your login information with your family.

another question came up last night, i dont understand how the sensors work, i mean i am a mechanical contractor and if anyone knows what i am talking about i dont get how can the sensors know to modulate temperature in any given space, for this you will need a VAV or variable air volume device which with a damper opens or closes in each room to allow different air flow and regulate temperature in any given space…. with the sensors i could be downstairs and the sensor can trigger the AHU but it will cool down every room….just giving a point out there about temperature…i think they should promote it as a on/off sensor to trigger the AHU in the presence of people or a hike in temperature

I reached out to ecobee for you, here is their response. “So the sensors only detect motion and temperature and send that information back to the thermostat. They don’t have the ability to control the equipment. In the event that you decide to make a remote sensor a primary sensor, it’s still measuring temperature and motion then sending it back to the thermostat. The ecobee can’t send heating or cooling to specific room based on what that sensor is reading. Our thermostats control the heating and cooling system as a whole. If you wanted separate temperature room control, that would be a zone control system. I hope this information helps!”

Thanks for your input it is greatly appreciated, the information does help, but i just realized that this thermostats nest,ecobee, etc serve the same purpose as having multiple thermostats around the house, which is possible and much less expensive, they will serve the exact same job as what is described by them according to your response. I guess people just want to buy the wifi capability, i think their profit margin its outrageous but home BMS or smart integration systems is the future of houses, i just wonder what would happen in case of a power outage, thanks again.

04/21/2016

joo

This is not quite true. If your system supports zone; then you must have different thermostats – one for each zone. What the ecobee3 attempts to do with remote sensors is let you change the temp of the system based on your location with-in a zone. I.e, if your bedroom has the thermostat and target temp is 70 and your living room (controlled by the same thermostat) ends up being 80 or 60; your only choice with a conventional thermostat is to change the temp in your bedroom while you are in the living room. With the ecobee3 if the sensor senses that you are in the living room and you set the target temp of 72 when in the living room it will increase or decrease the temp (and yes the temp in the bedroom will change) until the living room is 72. Where this breaks down completely is when you have two people in the house one in the living room and one in the bedroom. While you can tell the ecobee3 which sensor (thermostat or remote sensor) has priority it can only make one of the room meet the target temp.
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The nest is a different beast – it is strictly geared towards energy optimization. While the ecobee3 will do some of this while meeting your object; the nest takes the approach that your target temp is a desired temp but will run things in the fashion that ‘it’ thinks is most energy efficient.

Btw the feence feature is primarily aimed at having the home pre-warmed or pre-cooled from more optimized ‘away’ temp setting which is very different than ecobee3 ‘remote’ sensor allowing you to change which room has the ‘target’ temp based on your location with in a zone.
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In case I confused things with my comment on nest approach to energy saving the ecobee3 allows you to set things like distance from target temp and speed at which things are cool/warmed (if your unit supports these inputs); these things are not controlled by the user with the nest thermostat because they would influence the energy consumption curve. What the ecobee3 does allow is for you to set efficient away temps (i.e, warmer/cooler when not in the unit).
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Going back to the original comment on multiple thermostat – zones are not totally uncommon but they are also not that common. You cannot simply buy a new thermostat plunk it on the wall and have different zones. The system must actually support maintaining different temps in different area of the dwelling.

The ecobee3 does have machine learning. Just not in the same sense that Nest learns.

The ecobee learns how long it takes to heat or cool your house within a certain period of time. Then uses this information and applies it to their Smart features, like Smart Recovery (Pre-heat/cool the house before the next schedule change so it’s already at the desired temperature.) or Smart Home/Away (heating or cooling depending if it sees anyone home or not.)

The Nest will just learn when you come and go. Ecobee doesn’t tie you to this schedule.

So yes, the Ecobee does have learning, just not the same as the competition.

While I have purchased an ecobee3 it has not yet been installed so the following comments is based off of information that i collected.

The nest is a thermostat that does what it wants to do and your setting is a ‘suggestion’ (will explain below) while the ecobee3 is more traditional it does what you tell it to do.

They both use machine learning but the focus of the nest is efficiency (power consumption) while the focus of the ecobee3 is to accomplish what you want more efficient (time wise).
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In the nest case (for example) they do not emphasis the current temp (even though this is a feature consumers has requested since the first model; and the company comment around this request is that the temp should be close to your setting (the newest model does display the temp when active in very small letters). Futhermore there are some complaints that the real temp can be off by a bit 2 or 3 degrees and there is no way to force the system to be more precise (not reading error but energy saving consideration). The ecobee3 is more traditional you can set the acceptable range and tolerance and it will do what you request within the user specified paramters.

Having said this it sounds like as a device the nest hardware is a little more reliable (been a few issues with the actual ecobee3 hardware) but nest has made some major issues with firmware updates (last winter there was a significant outage for a day or so due to buggy firmware; which was then corrected).

My problem with the nest design philosophy is that I want a thermostat to do what I want not what they think is best for me. If I want a tolerance of x; I want the thermostat to do the best it can with that tolerance (temp flux). If I want to see the current temp in stand-by mode then they shoudln’t try to convince me that displaying the target temp is the right behavior; they should provide a method to display the current temp. It is little things like the above (having read through several years of reviews and company replies) that resulted in purchasing the ecobee3. i Just hope it turns out to be problem free.

Yes, that’s right. Digital Life owners can now integrate their system with Nest. There are several products, not just Digital Life, that will help detect presence so that learning will become less of an issue. Look for an update to this article this week with lots of new info. IRT Digital Life, if you’re planning to integrate, the “Programs” feature will be very useful. It basically allows you to create rule-based interaction between your integrated devices and your system, so evoking action in the thermostat by arming or disarming will be possible.

It looks as though AT&T Digital Life allows for the nest to be integrated into the system. In m not sure how well it works, but if arm and disarm evokes action in the nest, learning could be less of a problem if you are home but not near the device.

My biggest concern is that the nest actually know if you are in the zone. For example, I have a unit that covers two bedrooms. One of the bedroom is an office. I can either put the thermostat in bedroom or the office or in the middle. It can’t possible know which room I am in if it is in the other room or the middle (exterior wall). I presume with the e3 I could put the unit in one room and the sensor in the other room. While my situation might be a little unique; I would think any living condition with distinct rooms covered by a unit would have this issue. Perhaps I am mistaken and nest has a solution to this problem ?

If you want to zone with Nest, you will need multiple Nest thermostats. Because ecobee has remote sensors, creating zones would definitely be more economical. However, it sounds like you aren’t necessarily asking about a true zone situation. From a multi-room comfort perspective, ecobee3 wins because it uses sensors. The sensors can measure in your bedroom, office, etc to help address temperature fluctuations. From a presence perspective, ecobee sensors are also ideal because they can also help follow your presence. Nest’s Home/Away Assist has made Nest’s presence sensing more accurate by relying on your smartphone in addition to the integrated sensors in the thermostat, but in general ecobee is better because it can take a temperature read from different rooms, know if you are home or not, and can even tell which room you are occupying.

Thank you for your answer. Actually i’ve done a lot of reading over the last 3 days and have 2 comments/concern:
First the thing actually works (from reading reviews (esp negative reviews) it seems that there is a high failure or fault rate with the main ecobee3 – things like furnace shorting to flipping on/off in short period. The total failure rate is not high but probably higher than it should be and a large % of the 10% negative reviews; though some of them are the poorly assembled sensors.
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Second the lack of local communication with the unit. I.e, you have to hit the cloud to do anything with the phone – it can’t talk directly to the unit itself when you are local. This design means that as a small company of ecobee3 ceases the cloud features will vanish; though I suppose you can still do settings with the unit itself. I can understand some features – like remote settings requiring the cloud but not when you are on the LAN. Those operations should be able to bypass the cloud. THis would also allow you to use your phone to set the unit when their servers are down or misbehaving as well as your inet provider.
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Are these reasonable concerns and have you had any issues or concern with your units ?

You’re welcome, and I apologize for not getting back to you any sooner.

It’s good that you’re digging deep into the details. Knowing their features is one thing, knowing how reliable they are is another. That said, both of your concerns are reasonable.

I don’t own an ecobee3. Rose, my colleague, has been working with ecobee hands-on. However, she hasn’t been testing it long enough to form an opinion. She says that so far, no problems except she found the install difficult. She says she even had to do some minor drywall repair to get the screws anchored. We will be updating this article in June with her hands-on review of ecobee3, after she’s had more time to really play with things.

I use the $99 honeywell smart thermostats (one upstairs and one down) They work with Wink and I just use the Skylark app so when we are all gone it sets the thermostats to away. Thermostats $200 for 2, App, $9.99, Value – Priceless Now I just need to build a IFTT recipe for “Im Cold downstairs” or “Im Cold upstairs” that I can speak to Alexa (Echo) that will turn the heat up 3 degrees for 30 minutes, Or AC down ect.
The “Im Cold” or “Im Hot” x degrees for x minutes should be user definable for both heating and AC values Now I have to go and learn how to build IFTT recipes…

I am looking to update my Condo to a smart home, I am interested in the (works with Nest program) but I am wondering if it will ever work with Homekit for Apple. I have and love Apple products, even though I know the Nest is not Homekit enabled all of the other products I am interested in buying ( Philips Hue, August lock, and Ihome smart plug) work with both Homekit and works with Nest. I am in between the Ecobee 3 which works with Homekit but does not connect with the other products and the Nest.
My real question is, which one will be best for me?

I want all my smart devices to link, and work with each other, and I am more towards the voice commanding through Homekit since I have Apple devices. If you can give me an idea of which one to buy. Just so you know eveyoneone in my household has a 9-5 jobs and home in the weekends as well I live in Maimi Fl and it will be for a condo.
Thank you for your time

It’s wonderful that you’re jumping onto the smart home bandwagon. I don’t see Nest making a HomeKit-enabled product in the near future, mainly because Nest is owned by Google, Apple’s rival.

Based on what you’ve shared, I think both solutions are viable. If you have an Apple TV (3rd generation or later), you can control your devices using Siri when you are home or when you’re away and that would be pretty cool.

Other than that, I wouldn’t shy away from Nest. As you said, Works with Nest includes Philips Hue Smart LED bulbs, August Smart Locks, and the iHome SmartPlug. Plus, you could add Amazon Echo to integrate voice control in your home. What’s great about Echo is that the device sleeps until it hears the wake up word and then it starts listening. It’s really convenient when you are in your home because you don’t have to find your smart phone to use voice commands, you just talk. Of course, this will have to be glued together using IFTTT. For those that have a schedule (9-5), Nest is an ideal option. Due to the fact that you have a schedule and want to connect Hue, August, and iHome, I suggest taking a harder look at Nest.

I’m not sure if your update came out before or after Amazon announced that the Econee3 now works with Echo? Does that change anything in your review? As for me the learning function will most likely not matter to me as I am a pilot that has a widely varying schedule that changes every month; if this were you, would it change your recommendation? (And yes, I own an Echo) 🙂

Our update came out a day before Ecobee announced the integration with Echo, but we’ve added it- thanks for the reminder. Regarding your question if it changes anything in my review, most likely not. I’d still recommend Nest for most. Also, you can control Nest with Echo via IFTTT. I get that IFTTT isn’t as convenient as a direct connection to Echo, but it counts for those looking for voice control.

In your case where Nest’s capability to learn a schedule is of almost no value, Ecobee would be a better choice. You can take advantage of its geofencing feature, plus it is widely compatible with home automation ecosystems.

Right, but…the IFTTT with NEST and Echo is a major pain to setup, especially for those not too technical. You have to setup one command each for every degree you want to move it to. Whereas Ecobee3 and the Echo work perfect natively, just tell Alexa to turn down the temp 3 degrees and it does, or tell it to turn it to 79 and it does. Nest and Echo and IFTTT are not that simple. You should really rethink your rating. Watch this…

Beth likes Nest, I like Ecobee – we both write for this website. However, Nest also integrates directly with Amazon Echo now… Oh how quickly things change in the world of technology. In regards to your other comment, Nest did brick Revolv. This is true. The way they handled it was unacceptable in my opinion. They should have offered Revolv owners better communication and a clear plan from the beginning. They haven’t really given a clear response to the outrage either. Is it because the amount of people actually using Revolv was next to nothing? Was it because they could no longer keep the device up-to-date from a security perspective? Is it because they’re a bunch of jerks and will pull the plug on the thermostat next? Who knows.

I think the problem with these learning systems is that they assume every person has a 9-5 but that’s not true. My wife works from home but only sometimes and I’m in and out all day. How will a machine ever learn that? For me the geofence feature is the most important.

Correct. Nest provided a model structure of how Nest Learning Thermostat learns. Within a month of teaching it, and that is by manually adjusting your thermostat and fine-tuning it,it will be able to finally adapt to your home. After that period, you may have to do further fine-tuning until Nest works perfectly along with your schedule.

Nest is a major player in the Works with Nest program. Other home automation products that you may have at home are contributing to Nest’s learning process.

You’re right, most smart thermostats assume that you have a fixed schedule that you follow every single day of your life. But we chose Nest because it is different. Nest actually learns.

Nest uses a combination of built-in sensors and algorithms to learn about your everyday life. For people with predictable schedule, Nest learns within a month. For someone like you with unpredictable schedule, it may take some more time.

There is a feature called the Auto-Away feature. Nest senses whether someone’s home or away, and it automatically sets the temperature to an optimal level.

The best part of Nest is that it talks with other home automation products. With the Works with Nest program, products from partnered home automation companies will be able to tell your thermostat when you’re away. Examples are August Smart Lock, Kwikset, Kevo, Chamberlain garage door, and many others. If you have an Automatic car adapter, you will be able to get the Geofence feature you want.

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