fd-Byzantine-msg – 11/4/14
Food of Medieval Byzantine. References.
NOTE: See also the files: Byzantine-msg, Balkans-msg, fd-Turkey-msg, fd-Greece-msg, bread-stamps-msg, Byzant-Cerem-art, Turkey-msg, Belly-Dance-art.
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Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:32:31 -0500
From: "Philippa Alderton"
Subject: SC - Fw: Klibanos- More from the Byzantine List
- ----------
: From: Peter Raftos
: To: phlip at bright.net
: Subject: Klibanos
: Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 3:57 AM
:
: Many thanks Phillipa,
: If you are interested in period Byzantine food then Siren Feasts by
: Andrew Dalby has one chapter on Byzantine gastronomy worth looking at
: Biscuits from Byzantium. While there are a few references - more than I
: thought - there are fewer recipes but lots of raw materials and
: ingredients are named. I'm working on an article for our journal the
: Varangian Voice. I hope to build a klibanos and then cook with it. Dalby
: also mentions klibanites a pita style bread. This was cooked in the
: klibanos. The term for heavily armoured Byzantine cavalry -
: klibanophoros - oven carrier- is derived from this word.
:
: While no recipes are given some names of dishes are - roast pork basted
: in honey wine etc, - there are good leads to foodstuffs and primary
: documents written by dieticians of the day! These don't seem too
: disimilar in intent to the seasonal dietary regimes of traditional
: chinese medicine - but I haven't read the originals. Dalby follows
: Taxiarchos Kolias' paper on mess practice and provisioning in the
: Byzantine Army - unfortunateley for me my high school German is rusty,
: nor do I have an english translation and I don't know how reliable
: Kolias is. So from the start I have to assume that Kolias' paper is
: valid and that Dalby's interpretation is fair.
:
: As the staple food of the army was cereal it could be consumed either as
: porridge, bread or biscuit. Dalby cites piston a millet porridge and
: trakhanas which is made from cracked emmer (or other grains) mixed with
: sour milk then dried in balls. Trakhanas can be bought ready made at
: Greek Deli's. I have eaten chicken using trakhanas as a stuffing when I
: visited Sparta earlier this year - yum.
:
: One biscuit is mentioned - paximadion (s), paximadia(pl.) named after
: the Hellenistic cook Paximus. Dalby says that knowledge of this biscuit
: spread more widely onwards from Byzantium than the luxuries it was famed
: for. He gives us its name in a couple of languages: Arabic bashmat,
: baqsimat, Turkish beksemad, Serbo-Croat peksimet, Romania pesmet, and
: Venitian pasimata.
:
: Paximadia were eaten by frugal priests and were part of the army's
: rations. They are still eaten today in Hellas and the old Byzantine
: lands. Paximadia are traditionally eaten as food for Lent or weekly fast
: days- Wednesday and Friday- in the Orthodox church. Generally people
: don't restrict themselves to these times to enjoy paximadia. They dunk
: them in something wet and chew away any old time. You will find a sweet
: variety available at Hellenic bakeries and cake shops. These are made on
: a butter based dough. Nowdays the sweet variety come in these flavours:
: aniseed, vanilla, cinnamon and in more recent times chocolate. The flour
: used nowdays is whole wheat flour. Dalby says the original article used
: barley flour.
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:00:03 -0500
From: "Philippa Alderton"
Subject: SC - Fw: Klibanos
Here's more good information on early Byzantine cooking and sites, for
those who may be interested.
- ----------
: From: Peter Raftos
: To: phlip at bright.net
: Subject: Klibanos
: Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 6:42 AM
:
: YES PLEASE!! The more URL's the merrier. Most of the guy's I know are
: heavily into researching weapons,fighting etc. I find the social history
: side a lot more fascinating. Since I look like a hairier version of
: Danny De Vito you can imagine my interest in social history hovers quite
: near anything edible or potable. On the New Varangian Guard URL are some
: Byzantine recipes. Can't say where we got them from but I hope to add
: some myself.
: http://www.physics.mq.edu.au/~gnott/Miklagard/Articles/ByzRecipes.html
:
: You will find Dalby's references tantalising. The 1984 Taxiarchos Kolias
: article which I loosely translate as " Mess practice and Provisioning in
: the Byzantine Army" is 'Essgewohnheiten und Verplegung im Byzantinischen
: Heer' in Byzantinos. Festschrift fur Herbert Hunger zum 70. Geburtstag,
: eds,W. Horander et al., Vienna,pp.193-202. Sorry my e-mail - read I -
: can't do scharfes s or umlauts;)
: Some other foodish things to look at can be found here
:
http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/subject/hd/fak7/hist/o1/logs/mt/t7/940815-052/i
ndex.html
:
: And a little general Byzantika here:
:
http://www.uni-heidelberg.de/subject/hd/fak7/hist/o1/logs/mt/t5/940223-029/i
ndex.html
:
: An interesting review of an interesting lecture can be found here:
: http://www.bway.net/~halsall/texts/byzeur.txt
:
: Another publication you may find of interest in researching the ethnic
: make up of Byzantium - which I will have to get around to reading one
: day myself - but comes highly recommended is 'Studies on the Internal
: Diaspora of the Byzantine Empire' ed. Ahrweiler and Laiou.
: Have you visited the Dumbarton Oaks URL?
: http://www.doaks.org/Byzantine.html
: You probably have. Oh well enough of me getting carried away with
: Byzantika. And yes any info on joining an early cooking list would be
: great.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 09:45:30 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D."
Subject: RE: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?
While I don't have any particular interest in Byzantine, let me send you a
few items I've collected along the way.
Bear
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medweb/links.htm
http://bway.net/~halsall/bsinternet.html
http://jeru.huji.ac.il/open_screen2.htm
http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/islam/nbLinks/Islam_Food_Farming.ht
ml
Re: Byzantine Food/D...
On Mon, 22 Aug 1994, Henry Marks wrote:
> I have the first two references you cited, but appreciate the Byzantine
> bulletinboard. I am working on researching Byzantine foods as prepared and
> served, so I am most certainly interested in recipes
Anthony Bryer, Byzantine Porridge, in Hnery Mayr-Harting and R. I. Moore
eds, Studies in Medieval History presented to R. H. C. Davis, (Hambledon
Press 1985), pp. 1 - 6.
[Submitted by: "R.I. Moore"
Mon, 22 Aug 1994 19:53:12 +0100]
Re: Byzantine Foods
A short introduction on Byzantine food can be found in the Oxford
Dictionary of Byzantium (ed. in ch. A.P. Kazhdan) (1991). The lemma
Diet provides a small bibliography.
In addition, from the bibliography of an article (in Dutch) by
a colleague of mine - E.M. van Midden - on this topic:
- - J. Andre, L'alimentation et la cuisine a Rome, Paris 1981
- - H. Eideneier, `Ptochoprodromos' Tafelfreud und Tafelleid',
in Fest und Alltag in Byzanz, G. Prinzing / D. Simon eds.,
Muenchen 1990 (77-90)
- - E. Kislinger, `Ernaehrung. Byzantinisches Reich', in Lexikon
des Mittelalters III, 1986 (2171-74)
- - Ph. Koukoules, Vizantinon vios ke politismos V, Athens 1952
(9-135) (in ODB referred to as: Koukoules, Bios)
- -E. Patlagean, Pauvrete economique et pauvrete sociale a
Byzance. IVe-VIIe s., Paris 1977 (36-53)
- -- in Dutch:
- - E.M. van Midden, Konstantinopel voor lekkerbekken?, in
Lychnari jaargang 7, nummer 3 (30-31) (a non-specialist
introduction)
- - J.M. van Winter, Van soeter cokene: recepten uit de oudheid
en middeleeuwen, Haarlem 1976 (recipes from Antiquity and
Middle Ages)
Most of the books and articles referred to present a general
picture, but their references might help any more in depth
study. I will ask my colleague for further information.
Hope this is of any help
Jan van Ginkel
Centre for Classical, Oriental, Mediaeval and Renaissance Studies
University of Groningen
[Submitted by: Jan van Ginkel
Tue, 23 Aug 1994 11:56:27 +0200]
Re: Byzantine Foods
Some additional resources...George Galavaris, *Bread and the Liturgy: The
Symbolism of Early Christian and Byzantine Bread Stamps*. Also, look
into excavation reports from those expeditions with (published) Byzantine
materials, especially with debris from wells (pottery, and with any
luck, floral and faunal remains analyzed); for example, Charles Hill
Morgan, *The Byzantine Pottery* in the Corinth Excavation series (1942),
published by the American School of Classical Studies at Athens.
[Submitted by: Barbara McLauchlin
Tue, 23 Aug 1994 21:24:29 -0700]
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:46:18 -0500
From: "Philippa Alderton"
Subject: Fw: Fw: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?
Here's a response from Byzantine List.
Phlip
- -----Original Message-----
From: WA2KBZ at aol.com
To: BYZANS-L at showme.missouri.edu
Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?
>Hi, Also influenced by (and influenced) Persians. Two kinds of fare; peasant
>and upper class. Olives, lamb some beef and bread, wine kid (goat) and rice
>as well as fish and fowl in coastal areas were and are popular. Upper class
>continued Roman dishes for some time (including a yucky fish sauce) and
>gradually blended with eastern foods. As resources such as time and money
>permitted, elaborately prepared meals, eaten at leisurely symposia, which
>included both discussion and concerts were popular with the wealthy and
>powerful. If you write Dr. Bruce Kraig (a great History prof. at Roosevelt
>U.) he may give you some special guidance, being an historical cuisine expert.
>
>Karl S.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 02:59:14 -0600
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Byzantine cuisine--sources?
Archestratus, The Life of Luxury. 330 B.C. Translation and commentary,
John Wilkins & Shaun Hill, Prospect Books, Devon, UK, 1994. I
think I got mine from Poison Pen Press.
He mentions Byzantium. He also mentions other cities around the
Mediterranean Sea. He may be too early, but it wouldn't hurt to look.
There are comments along with the fragments of poem by Archestratus,
listing various ideas as to what a particular fish may have been, etc.
Fragment 24. [Athenaeus 104f] Archestratus in his much feted poem: But
leave aside a lot of the fancy nonsense and buy yourself a lobster
[astakos] which has long and heavy hands but small feet, and advances
only slowly over the land. They are most numerous and the best of all
for quality in the Lipari islands. The Hellespont also gathers many
together. p. 63.
The comment for this fragment lists other writers describing lobsters.
I've spent some lovely hours looking at my Byz. costume books, art books,
etc. There seem to be little except religeous examples, because art
historians don't seem to regard other art as 'significant'. Four
examples may have food:
1. The birth of Mary, as St. Anne is offered food to restore her
strength. (In one example, it's too blurred to be sure if she's being
handed a swadled baby or a leg of lamb)
2. The Marriage at Cana; first of the miracles, you sometimes see food on
the table.
3. Salome dances before Herod at the banquet.
4. Peter's Mum-in-law gets up from her sick bed after being healed, and
fixes dinner.
Basically, the only examples are whole chicken and/or whole fish. These
are things a poor artist, or one working with a difficult medium or tiny
size, as in manuscripts, can make realistic enough in outline to be
recognizeable.
Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:00:10 -0800
From: "James L. Matterer"
Subject: Re: SC - Byzantine Sources
Several years ago there was in circulation a newsletter entitled EARLY
PERIOD. I know very little about this publication except that it dealt
with mostly pre-1000 recreation, and was produced by people involved
with the SCA. A good friend gave me xerox copies of issues 1-27, which I
had covered and bound.
In issue 5 was an article called Byzantine Foods which contained 7
recipes, along with this documentation:
Chantiles, Vilma Liacouras. The Food of Greece. Avenel, 1979.
Diehl, Charles. Byzantium: Greatness and Decline. Rutgers University
Press, 1957
Haussig, H.W. A History of Byzantine Civilization. Praeger, 1971.
Rice, Tamara Talbot. Everyday Life in Byzantium. Dorset, 1967.
Last March two SCA ladies wrote me asking if I could help them find
Byzantine recipes. I posted the recipes from EARLY PERIOD on the web so
they and everyone else could have access to them. The URL is:
http://www.labs.net/dmccormick/huen/letters/letter05.htm
Sadly, I can't credit an author for the article or even any info on the
publication itself, as none was included in the copies I was given, nor
in the originals that they were conceived from. Neither can I attest for
their accurateness or complete authenticity; still, I thought they may
prove of interest to some of you.
Huen/Jim Matterer
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 05:00:32 -0500
From: "Alderton, Philippa"
Subject: SC - Byzantine foods.
You might want to get a copy of Anthimus. Anthimus was a physician, writing
to Theodoric, King of the Franks on healthy food and good eating habits in
470 or thereabouts, from Byzantium.
Phlip
Philippa Farrour
Caer Frig
Southeastern Ohio
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:56:29 -0500
From: "Alderton, Philippa"
Subject: SC - Fw: Prosphora
Here's more on the bread molds.
Phlip
Philippa Farrour
Caer Frig
Southeastern Ohio
- -----Original Message-----
From: Peter Raftos
To: phlip at morganco.net
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 1:04 AM
Subject: Prosphora
>Hi Phillipa,
>I've seen your posts concerning prosphora on Byzans-L and the SCA cooks
>list. As you know, bread and grain were "controlled substances" -
>especially in C'nople- because of their sometime scarcity as well as the
>fact that commercial life was controlled in a pretty sophisticated way
>( see the 9th C Book of the Eparch by Leo VI
>To eparchikon biblion. The book of the Eparch.
>Ed as Le livre du Prefet. With an introd. by Ivan Dujcev. (London:
>Variorum Reprints, 1970)
>English trans. The Book of the Eparch. Byzantine Guilds, Professional
>and Commerical Ordinannces of Leo VI. C. 895 from the Book of the
>Eparch, trans. E. H. Freshfield, (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press,
>1938)
>English trans. Book of the Prefect, trans A.E.R.Boak, Journal of
>Economic and Business History, 1 (1929), 600-19 )
>
>This book out lines wonderful things like when fires had to be put out
>and who had exemptions from specific rules. Breadmaking and supply were
>a "big deal" which for many of us, with supermarkets and
>industrialisation, is literally a thing of the past (
>http://crh.choate.edu/history/_discfall/00000087.htm ). Outside of the
>church I believe that bread stamps were used to denote point of origin
>and to control the supply of bread ( not to mention paying taxes). The
>church's practice seems to be a vestigal imperial practice which may go
>back to Late Antiquity or earlier. I have no references yet as it is
>something that needs more research time than I have. Modern prosphora
>stamps can be of wood or plastic. In the past they have been made of
>wood, ceramic, and metal. Designs have varied over the ages but have
>settled at one (at least in the Greek Orthodox Church). Anti-doron is
>the bread given out to those not participating in communion. I can't
>recall seeing it stamped but it may have been in Byzantine times for the
>reasons mentioned above.
>
>Here are some helpful links. The first link is the most comprehensive
>and also has Orthodox Paschal, Lenten and Festal recipes as well as a
>recipe for Kollyva...boiled grain offering for the dead, a lovely pagan
>practice which goes back to Ancient Greece. The other two are useful for
>understanding the Orthodox perspective on bread.
>
>http://www.prosphora.org/
>http://www.theologic.com/oflweb/inchurch/prosphor.htm
>http://www.suc.org/culture/library/religious/Lord_Teach_Us_To_Pray/Prosphor
a.html
>
>If you have a local Orthodox church they sometimes have a good library
>and will often let you research there if not borrow books. Yes these
>books have an orthodox ecclesiastical bent but if you read between the
>lines much information and other sources can be culled. Another nice
>essay on Byzantium is to be found at found at
>http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/epstein_trends.html
>
> And did you know sauerkraut is period for Byzantium. Monasteries today
>still make the stuff.
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 20:38:38 EST
From: Devra at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks Polish manuscripts & future title (drool)
After the discussion a while ago on this, I thought people might be
interested in William Woys Weaver's statement in his article about Maria
Dembinska in the most recent PPC: "In fact, there are no manuscript recipes
surviving from medieval Poland...."
This is a great issue, by the way. It also has a biblography of Danish cook
books (1616-1800.)
Further, in Andrew Dalby's article on mastic, he refers in a footnote to
"Andrew Dalby, Flavours of Byzantium, Prospect Books, forthcoming." Since Mr
Dalby is the author of Siren Feasts and Classical Cooking, as well as a new
book, Dangerous Taste: The Story of Spices, this is both hopeful and
tantalizing. Unfortunately, Flavours of Byzantium is NOT on the list of
forthcoming books at the back of PPC, so its projected pub date
is..um..unclear. *sigh*
Devra the Baker
Devra Langsam
www.poisonpenpress.com
devra at aol.com
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:42:50 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
Subject: SC - Byzantium (incl. non-English stuff)
<< Can anyone point me to web links/info about Byzantium and their
food?? >>
The traditional way to find info is to look through the handbooks and
journals of Byzantium Studies, a scholarly field flourishing since the
1890ies or so. E.g., flipping through a bibliographic supplement (1994)
to the "Byzantinische Zeitschrift" some months ago, I found references
to several articles related to food, table manners, wine, dietetics,
eating in the army, porridge, silver spoons with inscriptions to
stimulate table conversation ... Now, I suppose that in the other 90 or
so volumes of this journal there should be further articles or
references. Be prepared to find non-English material/references, too.
Best, Thomas
[[ I include my randomly taken notes:
Anthimus: De observatione ciborum ad Theodoricum regum Francorum
epistula. Iteratis curis edidit et in linguam germanicam transtulit E.
Liechtenhan. Berlin 1963 (Corpus medicorum latinorum VIII/1).
Barrate, F.: Vaisselle d'argent, souvenirs littÈraires et maniËres de
table. L'exemple des cuillers de Lampsaque. In: Cahiers Arch. [?] 40
(1992) 5-20.
Bryer, Ant.: Byzantine porridge. In: Mayr-Harting, H./ Moore, R.I.
(eds.): Studies in Medieval history presented to R.H.C. Davis.
(Hambledon Press) 1985, 1-6.
Curtis, R.I.: Garum and salsamenta. Production and commerce in materia
medica. Leiden/ New York/ Kopenhagen/ Kˆln 1991 (Studies in Ancient
Medicine 3).
Diethart, J.: Papyri aus byzantinischer Zeit als Fundgrube f¸r
lexikographisches und realienkundliches Material. In: Analecta
Papyrologica 2 (1990) 81-114. [Unter anderem ¸ber Bezeichnungen f¸r
Haushaltsger‰te, Nahrungsmittel.]
Diethart, J./ Kislinger, E.: Aprikosen und Pflaumen. In: Jahrbuch der
÷sterreichischen Byzantinistik 42 (1992) 75-78.
Giangos, Th.: Apospasmata agnostou hagioreitikou typikou sto anthologio
"Hermeneiai ton entolon tou Kyriou". In: Epist. Epet. tes Theol. Schol.
Panep. Thessalonikes, Tmema Poimantikes. Thessalonike 1 (1990) 325-358.
[excerpts from dietary rules, 11th cent.; see Byz. Zs., Suppl. Bibl. I,
Nr. 624.]
Hauser, S.R.: Sp‰tantike und fr¸hbyzantinische Silberlˆffel. Bemerkungen
zur Produktion von Luxusg¸tern im 5. bis 7. Jahrhundert. M¸nster 1992
(Jahrbuch f¸r Antike und Christentum, Erg‰nzungsband 19).
Hope, C.A.: Excavations at Ismant el-Kharab in the Dakhleh Oasis. In.
Bull. Austral. Centre for Egyptol. 1 (1990) 42-54. [u.a. Bericht ¸ber
ein Haushaltsbuch; byz.?]
Kislinger, E.: Retsina e balnea. Consumo e commercio del vino a
Bisanzio. In: Storia del vino. A cura di P. Scarpi. Milano 1991, 77-84
(Homo edens II).
Koder, Joh.: Gem¸se in Byzanz. Die Versorgung Konstantinopels mit
Frischgem¸se im Lichte der Geoponika. Wien 1993.
Kolias, Taxiarchos: Essgewohnheiten und Verpflegung im Byzantinischen
Heer. In: Horander, W. u.a. (Hg.): Byzantinos. Festschrift f¸r Herbert
Hunger zum 70. Geburtstag. Wien 1984, 193-202.
Kruit, N.: The meaning of various words related to wine. Some new
interpretations. In: ZPE 90 (1992) 265-276 (s. Byzantinische
Zeitschrift, Supplementum bibliographicum I, S. 31).
Michael Psellus: De victus ratione. Paris 1526; Basel 1529.
Paviot, J.: Cuisine grecque et cuisine turque selon l'expÈrience des
voyageurs (XVe-XVIe siËcles). In: Bryer, A./ Ursinus, M. (eds.):
Manzikert to Lepanto. The Byzantine World and the Turks 1071-1571.
Amsterdam 1991 (Byzantinische Forschungen 16).
Rossiter, J.: Convivium and villa in late antiquity. In: Slater, W.J.
(ed.): Dining in a classical context. Ann Arbor (University of Michigan
Press) 1991, 199-214.
Symeon Seth: Syntagma per literarum ordinem de cibariorum facultate
(...) Lilio Gregorio Gyraldo interprete. Griechisch und lateinisch hg.
von G. Gyraldus. Paris 1538.
Symeon Seth: Simeonis Sethi Magistri Antiocheni volumen de Alimentorum
facultatibus: nunc vero per Dominicum Monthesaurum correctum [et] pene
reformatum. Basel 1561.
Symeon Seth: De alimentorum facultatibus juxta ordinem literarum
digestum (...) emendatum et Latina versione donatum a M. Bogdano. Paris
1658.
Symeon Seth: De alimentorum facultatibus. Ed. B. Langkavel. Leipzig
1868. [Siehe dazu die sehr kritische Abhandlung von Helmreich, Ansbach
1913.]
Tinnefeld, F.: Zur kulinarischen Qualit‰t byzantinischer Speisefische.
In: Studies in the Mediterranean World, Past and Present, 11 (Tokyo
1988) 155-175. ]]
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 18:16:14 -0700
From: "Wanda Pease"
Subject: RE: SC - Byzantium
> Andrea asked:
> >Can anyone point me to web links/info about Byzantium and their food??
Not necessarily food, but the most comprehensive site for Byzantine studies
and "stuff" is at:
http://www.bway.net/~halsall/byzantium.html
I'd also recommend going to the ORB website (linked with the above). The
sites are built for and maintained by scholars in the field, but it's been
my experience that an interested and polite question about something
specific (they get a bit antsy if they think you want to use them rather
than do your own research for a school paper) is treated as sincere. At
least one of the "scholars" has been on the BoD. He has real academic
credentials and teaches Medieval Studies at a university. Ah what the SCA
did to some kids!
Regina Romsey
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 21:27:46 -0400
From: johnna holloway
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Earth Melon?
What's the source or work that he's using?
You might read Dalby's Siren Feasts for
information on melons in classical times.
Dalby's new book on Byzantine cuisine and
foods is not out yet as far as I know.
Andrew Dalby, THE FLAVOURS OF BYZANTIUM,
ISBN 1-903018-14-5. Prospect Books. 2002.
Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis
Debra Hense wrote:>
> My friend, Demetrios, posed this question.
> "I have come across a reference to an earth melon in a text on
> Byzantine cuisine. It is in a chapter on mushrooms, truffles and
> root crops. Does anyone have any (documentable) idea what it
> might be."
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 10:34:01 -0400
From: johnna holloway
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine Cooking was Good morning from Greece
david friedman wrote:>
> Have you found any Byzantine cookbooks, or at least recipes contained
> in non-cookbooks? It's one of the big holes in the body of pre-1600
> recipes currently known by people like us.
Actually the volume may be on the way that will
help plug this hole...
Andrew Dalby, THE FLAVOURS OF BYZANTIUM, ISBN 1-903018-14-5.
Tom Jaine at Prospect Books has put up the following:
"The price looks like =A325.00, cloth bound.
Andrew Dalby seems pretty bullish about completion
of the text and there is not usually much subsequent
work to do on his copy (an ideal author), so
this may well be autumn 2002."
Another forthcoming title from Prospect is:
Sally Grainger & Chris Grocock, APICIUS, ISBN 1-903018-13-7.
"This is a big book; the price will be at least =A335.00,
cloth bound. I think the authors/editors have
quite a lot of work and quite a lot of other commitments,
so we must be patient about the arrival
of the text. I may need to be quite rich, too,
to publish it. Probably 2003/4 is realistic."
Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:10:08 -0500
From: "Debra Hense"
To:
Subject: [Sca-cooks] while you were off to pennsic
My friend presented the following announcement:
Well, it finally happened. The book is finished. You, or anyone else, can
order Byzantine Cuisine for $37.75, including packaging, shipping and
handling (within the 48 States). Its a 450 page book which contains a
systhesis of food available, cooking practices and dining custons, plus
translations of 3 primary sources and 2 secondary sources. Send check
or money order to Henry Marks, 1270 Montecello Dr, Eugene, OR, 97404.
It does not include copies of the orginals, just the translations.
This is Efentes Demetrios OL - originally of Calontir, now retired to
Oregon.
His e-mail address is: efentesdemetrios at hotmail.com if you wish to
correspond with him directly about his book.
He was my apprentice brother before he was elevated to the Order of the
Laurel for Things Byzantine. The book is oriented to the SCA time
period.
Kateryn de Develyn
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:59:26 -0500
From: "Debra Hense"
To:
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forks in period???
Efuentes Demetrios in his new book - Byzantine Cuisine has this to say
about forks:
Forks reportedly occurred very early in Byzantine history. Gregory of
Nyssa (4th C.) reports the use of a 'fork' with a single tine. The
number of tines increased over time, with Eusthasios of Thessalonika
(12th C.) reporting five tines. Forks were purportedly introduced to
the West via the dowry of the Byzantine Princess Theodora Doukas.
[Koukoule, P., Byzantinon Bios Kai Politismos (Byazantine Life and
Civilization). Collection de l'Instute Francais D'Atheneses: Athens,
1952, Volume V, Chapters 1 and 2.]
Demetrios has an edited translation to English of Koukoule in Appendix
E of his Byzantine Cuisine book.
If you haven't guessed already - I just received my copy. Very nice.
Large easy to read 12 point typeface. Well foot-noted. Organized in a
logical manner. The translations take up approximately two thirds of
the book.
He has translated into English:
Prodromic Poems - Hesseling, D. & Pernot, H -Poems prodromiques
en grec vulgaire.- Amsterdam, 1910; Jeanseleme, E. & Oeconomos, L. -La
Satire contre les Higoumenes. Poem attribue a Theodore Prodrom, essai de
traduction francaise.- Byazantion, 1924, Vol 1, 317 - 339; Soyter, G.
-Humor und Satire in der Byzantinisch Literature-. Bayerische Blatter
fur das Gymnaialschulwesen, 1928, Vol 64 pp 38-210.
Simeon Seth (from french) - Brunet, Marc (trans.) -Simeon Seth:
Medecin de L'Empereur-. Michel Doucas, Delmas Publishers: Bordeaux,
France, 1939
Hierophile (from french) - Boissonade, M. -Trait alimentaire du
Medecin Hierophile- in Notices et extraits des Manuscrits de la
Bibliotheque du Roi, t., Volume XI, 2nd Part, 178-273, Paris 1827.
Ailments et Recettes Culinaires des Byantins (from french) -
Jeanselme and Oeconomos, Communications faite au 3rd Congred de
l'Histoire de l'art de Guerir, London, July 17-22, 1922. Printed by De
Vlijt, Anvers, 1923.
Byzantine Life and Civilization (from french) - Koukoule, P.,
-Byzantinon Bios Kai Politismos.- Collection de l'Instute Francais
D'Atheneses: Athens, 1952, Volume V, Chapters 1 and 2.
He told me that he couldn't include facsimiles of the orginials as that
would have made the book twice as large - its already well over 400
pages.
Kateryn de Develyn
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:27:23 -0400
From: johnna holloway
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine book was Forks in period???
I have to second what Debra has said here. This is a very nice
work to have on the shelf. It's not inexpensive, but there is a great of
material in it and it is well worth the price if you are interested in
that part of the world.
Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis
Debra Hense wrote:> snipped
> Efuentes Demetrios in his new book - Byzantine Cuisine ...
> If you haven't guessed already - I just received my copy. Very nice.
> Large easy to read 12 point typeface. Well foot-noted. Organized in a
> logical manner. The translations take up approximately two thirds of
> the book.
> He told me that he couldn't include facsimiles of the orginials as that
> would have made the book twice as large - its already well over 400
> pages.
> Kateryn de Develyn
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:01:27 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] So what's new
To: Robin Carroll-Mann , Cooks within the SCA
Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:
> I've got Henry Marks' book on Byzantine cuisine, and have already
> found several good recipes in it. Does anyone have any comments on
> Andrew Dalby's "Flavour's of Byzantium"?
Loan it in and read it. You'll like it. I am not sure that it's
worth $45 if you aren't really into doing Byzantine all the time.
Johnnae
From: "Peter & Nicole Raftos"
To:
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:33:03 +1000
Subject: RE: [SCAbyzantine] Food and other subjects
Our knowledge of Byzantine foodstuffs (if not recipes) is still a mess
but is actually getting better. Tim Dawson has a good review of
"Flavours of Byzantium" by Andrew Dalby Prospect Books, 2003, 200 pages,
Hb, £25.00, US$45.00 ISBN 1-903018-14-5 See http://www.levantia.com.au/
Henry's book Byzantine Cuisine is an excellent place to start.
He has translated into English:
Prodromic Poems - Hesseling, D. & Pernot, H -Poems prodromiques
en grec vulgaire.- Amsterdam, 1910; Jeanseleme, E. & Oeconomos, L. -La
Satire contre les Higoumenes. Poem attribue a Theodore Prodrom, essai de
traduction francaise.- Byazantion, 1924, Vol 1, 317 - 339; Soyter, G.
-Humor und Satire in der Byzantinisch Literature-. Bayerische Blatter
fur das Gymnaialschulwesen, 1928, Vol 64 pp 38-210.
Simeon Seth (from french) - Brunet, Marc (trans.) -Simeon Seth:
Medecin de L'Empereur-. Michel Doucas, Delmas Publishers: Bordeaux,
France, 1939
Hierophile (from french) - Boissonade, M. -Trait alimentaire du
Medecin Hierophile- in Notices et extraits des Manuscrits de la
Bibliotheque du Roi, t., Volume XI, 2nd Part, 178-273, Paris 1827.
Ailments et Recettes Culinaires des Byantins (from french) -
Jeanselme and Oeconomos, Communications faite au 3rd Congred de
l'Histoire de l'art de Guerir, London, July 17-22, 1922. Printed by De
Vlijt, Anvers, 1923.
Byzantine Life and Civilization (from french) - Koukoules, P.,
-Byzantinon Bios Kai Politismos.- Collection de l'Instute Francais
D'Atheneses: Athens, 1952, Volume V, Chapters 1 and 2.
The Dumbarton Oaks Saints Vitae, Hagiography Data Base Project and the
Byzantine Monastic Foundation Documents - Tyika online provide some
information on the mainly vegetarian monastic diet if you search for it:
http://www.doaks.org/ATHWC.html
http://www.doaks.org/Hagio.html
http://www.doaks.org/typ000.html
The Geoponica was compiled by an unknown writer at the request of the
Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, to whom the work was formerly
ascribed. Based mainly on a collection made in the 6th or 7th century by
Cassianus Bassus, who borrowed from two earlier writers, Anatolius
Vindanius or Vindonius, of Berytus, and Didymus, of Alexandria (both of
the 4th or 5th century). It is being translated into English at the
moment. A chapter summary and commentary which lists common and uncommon
foodstuffs may be found here Rogers, Robert. (2002) “Garden Making and
Garden Culture in the Geoponika.” In Byzantine Garden Culture,
Washington DC: Dumbarton Oaks, 159-175.:
http://www.doaks.org/ByzGarden/ByzGarch8.pdf
Some other reading which may be of interest
Bryer, Anthony. (1985) Byzantine Porridge, in Hnery Mayr-Harting and R.
I. Moore eds, Studies in Medieval History presented to R. H. C. Davis,
Hambledon Press pp. 1 - 6.
Bryer, Anthony. (2002) “The Means of Agricultural Production: Muscles
and Tools” in The Economic History of Byzantium from the Seventh through
the Fifteenth Century, edited by Angeliki Laiou. Washington, DC:
Dumbarton Oaks, 101-113.
Constantinides, Costas. (2002) “Byzantine Gardens and Horticulture in
the Late Byzantine Period: 1204-1453: The Secular Sources.” Byzantine
Garden Culture. Edited by Antony Littlewood, Henry Maguire and Joachim
Wolschke-Bulmahn Washington, DC : Dumbarton Oaks, 87-103.
Koder, Johannes. Fresh vegetables for the capital, in: Constantinople
and its Hinterland, edd. C. Mango and G. Dagron. Aldershot 1995, 49-56.
Koder, Johannes. Gemüse in Byzanz:Die Frischgemuseversorgung
Konstantinopels im Licht der Geoponika ed. J. Koder Institut fur
Byzantinistik und Neograzistik der Universisat Wien. pp. 131 ISBN
3-900538-41-7
eds Antony Littlewood, Henry Maguire, and Joachim Wolschke-Bulmahn
Byzantine Garden Culture, Dumbarton Oaks, ISBN: 0884022803
Maguire, Henry. (2000) “Gardens and Parks in Constantinople.” Dumbarton
Oaks Papers, 54, 251-64.
Maguire, Henry. (2002) “Paradise Within.” In Byzantine Garden Culture,
Washington DC : Dumbarton Oaks, 23-35.
Scarborough, John. (2002) “Herbs of the Field and Herbs of the Garden in
Byzantine Medicinal Pharmacy.” Byzantine Garden Culture. Edited by
Antony Littlewood, Henry Maguire and Joachim Wolschke-Bulmahn
Washington, DC: Dumbarton Oaks, 177-188.
For headdresses and hair try:
Emmanuel, Melita. (1994) "Hairstyles and Headdresses of Empresses,
Princesses and Ladies of the Aristocracy in Byzantium," Deltion tes
Christianikes Archaiologikes Etaireias, volume dedicated to the memory
of Doula Mouriki, vol. 17, 113-120.
Parani, M. G. (2000) "Byzantine Bridal Costume.” Dorema. A Tribute to
the A. G. Leventis Foundation on the Occasion of its Twentieth
Anniversary. Nicosia, 185-216.
Peter Raftos
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:05:50 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Greek Recipes
To: Cooks within the SCA
Description of Dalby's book is at
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/lane/kal69/shop/pages/isbn145.htm
Charles Perry's review is at http://www.cornucopia.net/aboutfb.html
Henry Marks -- is sold by Devra. More about it at
http://tastesofmaviboncuk.blogspot.com/2005/07/tastes-and-smells-of-
byzantium.html
There's also a review by Dalby of it in PPC.
Johnnae
Vitaliano Vincenzi wrote:
> Yes, sorry, I am looking at early 15th century for all courses - no time
> traveling allowed. :) The books you mention, what period are they from?
> A quick online search at our Library doesn't show that they are
> available locally, but I will have our Librarian do a state wide search
> and see if see if she can find them. It's nice that our shires
> seneschal is also a librarian. :)
>
> Johnna wrote:
> If you are doing medieval Greek, you'd be wise to look at medieval
> Byzantine and those
> sources to start would be Andrew Dalby's Flavours of Byzantium and
> and Byzantine Cuisine by Henry Marks.
>
> Johnnae
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 17:25:24 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo
Subject: [Sca-cooks] two sources (Byzantine, German)
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Surfing around, I found two foreign language sources, one Byzantine (10th century; engl. transl.), one German (14th century).
Here are a few German recipes that I was not hitherto aware of:
http://www.google.de/books?id=fKokYqB96m0C&pg=PA289&dq=pulverrezepte&sig=RgAZGI0R2KkPvtwrXQgHD9EKRPQ#PPA301,M1
The Byzantine source is here (search for example for "abyrtake" or "sour-sauce" or "food" or any other food term you might want to explore):
http://www.stoa.org/sol/
From their website:
The Suda is a massive 10th century Byzantine Greek historical encyclopedia of the ancient Mediterranean world, derived from the scholia to critical editions of canonical works and from compilations by yet earlier authors. The purpose of the Suda On Line is to open up this stronghold of information by means of a freely accessible, keyword-searchable, XML-encoded database with translations,
annotations, bibliography, and automatically generated links to a
number of other important electronic resources. We believe that greater
accessibility of this material should facilitate a good variety of new
research. (Read more)
E.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:37:46 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Advice on a Book
To: Cooks within the SCA
On Aug 12, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Mariann Eaves wrote:
<<< I was perusing Potboiler Press (which btw is finally up and going, Yay http://tranq3.tranquility.net/~potboilerpress/ ) and found Andrew
Dalby, Flavors of Byzantium listed. Is this a good book to start out with in
learning to cook foods from the Bysantium period? >>>
My recollection (and I hope I'm not doing Dalby an injustice here) is
that it's not really much of a cookbook, but more of an examination of
food references in the fairly standard body of available texts:
poetry, shipping records, histories, etc.
There may be recipes from sources such as Anthimus and Apicius to back
up the references, but if there at all, they're probably sort of
incidental.
If you simply want to learn what these people ate, it's a good source,
but if you want one-stop shopping with worked-out recipes in the back,
such as you might get from somebody like Terence Scully, this isn't
really that kind of thing.
Again, this is my recollection, backed up only slightly by a very
brief skim through the pages before writing this. I may have missed
the Secret Section On 101 Things To Do With Garum... ;-)
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:51:12 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Advice on a Book
To: Cooks within the SCA
Ok, I have my copy right here. It doesn't have modernized recipes.
It has descriptive passages from early texts that are dietary in nature.
There's a huge glossary and bibliography. You can use Dalby to get to the
actual sources, but you are going to have to either buy more books
or spend a lot of time in a library, a great academic library at that.
You aren't going to be able to just buy
Dalby and walk in a kitchen and cook full meals from what he provides.
Devra sells this book Byzantine Cuisine $45.00 by Henry Marks.
http://www.poisonpenpress.com/cookery.html
"He has taken a number of Byzantine recipes from referenced sources and
has adapted them for modern tastes while remaining as true as possible
to the original; each recipe is annotated with literary, historical, and
culinary information."
You might like it to start with.
Johnnae (playing librarian)
Mariann Eaves wrote:
<<< I was perusing Potboiler Press (which btw is finally up and going, Yay
http://tranq3.tranquility.net/~potboilerpress/ ) and found Andrew Dalby,
Flavors of Byzantium listed. Is this a good book to start out with in
learning to cook foods from the Bysantium period?
Saraqan >>>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:37:23 -0400
From: devra at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine food - commercial plug
Another book about Byzantine food is 'Byzantine Cuisine' by Henry Marks. This is a trade paperback. It does include some recipes. With Henry's permission I have reprinted it, and you can get it from me for $45 plus postage.
Devra the Bkaer
Poison Pen Press
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:30:29 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tastes of Byzantium by Andrew Dalby
While browsing titles I came across this new book:
Tastes of Byzantium: The Cuisine of a Legendary Empire (Paperback)
by Andrew Dalby (Author) 288 pages
I B Tauris & Co Ltd ; Being released 30 May 2010 in the United Kingdom
This title will be released on June 22, 2010 in the USA at a cost of
$25.00
ISBN: 978-1848851658
Book Description from the publisher http://www.ibtauris.com
For centuries the food and culinary delights of the Byzantine empire
-- centred on Constantinople -- have captivated the west, although it
appeared that very little information had been passed down to us.
Andrew Dalby's Tastes of Byzantium now reveals in astonishing detail,
for the first time, what was eaten in the court of the Eastern Roman
Empire -- and how it was cooked. Fusing the spices of the Romans with
the seafood and simple local food of the Aegean and Greek world, the
cuisine of the Byzantines was unique and a precursor to much of the
food of modern Turkey and Greece. Bringing this vanished cuisine to
life in vivid and sensual detail, Dalby describes the sights and
smells of Constantinople and its marketplaces, relates travelers'
tales and paints a comprehensive picture of the recipes and customs of
the empire and their relationship to health and the seasons, love and
medicine. For food-lovers and historians alike, Tastes of Byzantium is
both essential and riveting -- an extraordinary illumination of
everyday life in the Byzantine world.
Johnnae
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 06:59:52 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Tastes of Byzantium by Andrew Dalby
On Apr 18, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Volker Bach wrote:
<<< Does anyone happen to know how much it differs from 'Flavours of
Byzantium'? (Or if at all - some authors get away with all but
republishing the same book)
It looks good, but I'm leery of getting stung that way.
Giano >>>
Well maybe not so exciting.
The word from the press this am:
<<< Thank you for your enquiry into ?Tastes of Byzantium?. I have been
advised that it is indeed a reprint of the previous ?Flavours of
Byzantium?.
Kind regards
I.B. Tauris
6 Salem Road
LONDON W2 4BU >>>
So it's the same book under a new title.
Johnna
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