M85 wrote:Like you Hombre, hospitality was what I immediately thought of, as hospitality in the Middle East is incredible. I could be wrong, but I suspect this is more of an aspect of culture than Islam, originating back to the nomadic way of life and being part of long trade routes.

It is very well possible - considering Islam rose from Arabs. It is nonetheless a wonderful attribute which I wish we in the West could appreciate and reciprocal.

Instead, back in 1920 with discovery of oil, many American & English businessmen, ignorant of meaning and purpose of these customs, they mistook them as weakness on part of the Arab (Muslims), which had to be exploited, with no regard to consequences. They applied the western philosophy of doing business, with it this mantra "in business there are only economic interest". Subsequently, these oil companies stole enormous amount of oil with little or no pay.

I would suggest to watch the documentary "the 7 sisters" which Chronicles the history of the 7 biggest oil companies, and their insidious master plan to corner the oil market, and means to cheat the Arabs of their revenue..

It was only after Arabs learned the real value of oil, many Saudi princess went to US t& UK o study business and economy, they realized what was going on, which brought ARAMCO into reality, with the American Business model - sell to the highest bidder. .The rest is history.

Right, more anti-western propaganda.

Where is the documentary on the sinister agenda of OPEC? Oh, no documentary on the evils of OPEC? Didn't think so.

Understand this, when the "evil" western companies cornered the oil market, no petrol dollars were funding jihad and propagating Islam. In fact, western culture and values permeated the Arab world at the height of these western companies. Islam was diminishing. But according to hombre, this was Arabs suffering at the hands of evil western imperialism.

With the decline of these "evil" western companies and emergence of the OPEC cartel, who do you think funds the jihad horde? Who do you think influences Europes immigration, islamophobia and anti-"hate speech" (anti-free speech) policies?

EquestrianNo one - certainly not myself, argues about the insidious affect which oil money has brought to western cultural. w/o going into details about myself. those who know me on this blog, I am one of the most critics of Islam.

Notwithstanding, here we are distinguish between religious ideologies of Islam & economic interest of the Arabs, who happened to be Muslims. What I was trying to explain is, we in the west are not guilt-free in this conflict with Arabs as one might expect.

Instead of writing more monologue, I will let this documentary about the same 7-Sisters speak for itself. Go ahead and watch this 47 min documentary which I found fascinating & informative.

Hombre wrote:EquestrianNo one - certainly not myself, argues about the insidious affect which oil money has brought to western cultural. w/o going into details about myself. those who know me on this blog, I am one of the most critics of Islam.

Notwithstanding, here we are distinguish between religious ideologies of Islam & economic interest of the Arabs, who happened to be Muslims. What I was trying to explain is, we in the west are not guilt-free in this conflict with Arabs as one might expect.

Instead of writing more monologue, I will let this documentary about the same 7-Sisters speak for itself. Go ahead and watch this 47 min documentary which I found fascinating & informative.

Hombre wrote:EquestrianNo one - certainly not myself, argues about the insidious affect which oil money has brought to western cultural. w/o going into details about myself. those who know me on this blog, I am one of the most critics of Islam.

You've misconstrued my point here. I did not argue the insidious effect oil money has on western culture. Oil money has no insidious effect; money don't do evil. The insidious effect of oil money is brought by those who control it, specifically OPEC, not the western oil companies.

I find it laughable that the western oil companies are the object of demonization in this anti-western propaganda documentary as they were not the major actors in the region. Western oil companies were regulated by their governments and at the same time beholden to the various Arab regimes. Western oil companies did not steal the oil, they paid exuberant amounts of royalties to the fledging tribal Arab nations in which they operated. They exponentially increased the standard of living in the Arab world. Mortality rates, education, jobs, living conditions and heath care drastically improved. Not to mention western values that had been imported, in which the Arab World was beginning to embrace.

Instead of demonizing the western oil companies, maybe we should thank them. Perhaps a posthumous Nobel Peace Prize is in order. Confiscate it from Obama, he did absolutely nothing to earn it other than being black, regressive and anti-western culture.

Hombre wrote:Notwithstanding, here we are distinguish between religious ideologies of Islam & economic interest of the Arabs, who happened to be Muslims. What I was trying to explain is, we in the west are not guilt-free in this conflict with Arabs as one might expect.

Oh, I'm guilt free. I'm western and I feel no guilt. In fact even if we pretend that the narrative in the documentary is 100% accurate, I would still feel no guilt. I'm a bad person aren't I? No, I'm not a bad person. I'm just not a self-flagellating collectivist. I bear no responsibility for what a group of people did 90 years ago simply because we share the same ethnicity or skin color.

Wait, you meant western nations bear some responsibility for the rise of Jihad. Did you?

So what, same principle. Regardless of past grievances, real or imagined, the west bears no responsibility for Mohammedans blowing up, crucifying and beheading innocent civilians. You know who does bear full responsibility? the jihad horde and those who fund, enable and support them. (I.e. a large segment of the Muslim population and a sizeable portion of western liberal useful idiots.)

Hombre wrote:EquestrianNo one - certainly not myself, argues about the insidious affect which oil money has brought to western cultural. w/o going into details about myself. those who know me on this blog, I am one of the most critics of Islam.

Pretty sure that islam was taxing and raidning and stealing money and at np point did any of them say, "This money is wrong We must remove it from the holy land.. Nope."

Notwithstanding, here we are distinguish between religious ideologies of Islam & economic interest of the Arabs, who happened to be Muslims. What I was trying to explain is, we in the west are not guilt-free in this conflict with Arabs as one might expect.

Actually that's baloney, and all you have to do is read about T.E. Lawrence and how the Arab League couldn't get themselves together during World War I at any point. Nope, they argued among each other and didn't actually give a damn about forming any kind of government, they did nothing, except Rape T.E. Lawrence.

Instead of writing more monologue, I will let this documentary about the same 7-Sisters speak for itself. Go ahead and watch this 47 min documentary which I found fascinating & informative.

Sorry too busy being evil to watch that stupid documentary about the evil evil west.

Muslim hospitality , there is no doubt about it . Islam may have a role in it. But it may be just an eastern thing, i think people in india are just as genorous and shows same hospitality.

Sharing food with others and not worried about expenses is great quality. Its a norm that if 4 friends go to a resturant for lunch, they all will insist that they going to pay bill for all. If any one lets suppose a plumber is fixing something in your house and its lunch time, most likely his lunch will be coming from your house.

It was a great scene when in iraq 3 american solders entered an old man house with guns pointing at him, to ask him something while he was eating. First thing the old man said you want to eat something and offered his bread to them.

Respect for your parents and serving them till their last day something remarkable in eastern cultures and islam probably have a role to play.

Regardless of what quran says about infidels, mulims dont hate if you are from west and are white. It may be because of colonialism affect but fact is they respect you and will give you special treatment.

iffo wrote:Regardless of what quran says about infidels, mulims dont hate if you are from west and are white. It may be because of colonialism affect but fact is they respect you and will give you special treatment.

That doesn't sound much like SAM - but then, SAM's not much like the Muslims I know.

"If a woman passes one kilometer from someone who is praying, is the prayer canceled then? What is the maximum distance from which a prayer is cancelled altogether?" Majid Oukacha

iffo wrote:Regardless of what quran says about infidels, mulims dont hate if you are from west and are white. It may be because of colonialism affect but fact is they respect you and will give you special treatment.

That doesn't sound much like SAM - but then, SAM's not much like the Muslims I know.

I am sure SAM in real life is quite different, here perhaps he acts to tease people. But if that's how he is in reality, then he is exception.

manfred wrote:Hospitality in India is a common among Hindus and Sikhs so I can;t really see a connection to Islam. Does Islam teach to be nice to non-Muslims foreigners?

Not Islam, that's why I said it may be because of cololnoliasm affect. But fact is they are nice to westerners.

On personal level people in ME including Muslims are very hospitable to strangers . This has nothing to do with Islam but it's their culture.

In India Muslims can be very hospitable and kind to strangers ( including to Hindus) as it's in their culture. Ofcourse one has to be mindful of their sex segregation custom.At personal level a Muslim can be your most dependable friend. I am talking from my personal experienceOur fight is not against Muslims at personal level. Fight is against their collective vices.

manfred wrote:Hospitality in India is a common among Hindus and Sikhs so I can;t really see a connection to Islam. Does Islam teach to be nice to non-Muslims foreigners?

Not Islam, that's why I said it may be because of cololnoliasm affect. But fact is they are nice to westerners.

On personal level people in ME including Muslims are very hospitable to strangers . This has nothing to do with Islam but it's their culture.

In India Muslims can be very hospitable and kind to strangers ( including to Hindus) as it's in their culture. Ofcourse one has to be mindful of their sex segregation custom.At personal level a Muslim can be your most dependable friend. I am talking from my personal experienceOur fight is not against Muslims at personal level. Fight is against their collective vices.

I never been to India or Nepal but I have a feeling they are same when it comes to hospitable . I think it's the eastern culture. Just been nice to guests. And they are super nice if you are white westerner. But Islam / Muhammad may have some role in it, as he had statements saying be nice to guests, neighbours etc, also Islam has stressed a lot in giving to others.

iffo wrote:I never been to India or Nepal but I have a feeling they are same when it comes to hospitable . I think it's the eastern culture. Just been nice to guests. And they are super nice if you are white westerner.

'athithi devo bhava'(salutations to the guest god) is one of the popular Hindu Sanskrit sayings.In the olden days,there were families who never ate anything unless they fed the guest first.Even today most people eat only either along with the guest or after the guests.I saw the same thing in a film showcasing Afghanistan Muslim mujahideen during Soviet War.Perhaps it is their leftover Hindu/Buddhist habit.Old habits die hard.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Distress sales were forced on people of other regions in Hyd during the 1960s Telangana agitation .So what guarantee is there that the same will not get repeated once police force is handed over to Telangana 7 years from now onwards.Perhaps the military top brass believes in 'might is right' moral.

M85 wrote:Like you Hombre, hospitality was what I immediately thought of, as hospitality in the Middle East is incredible. I could be wrong, but I suspect this is more of an aspect of culture than Islam,

It probably has to do with culture.

But Islam is surprisingly explicit about helping the wayfarer too. "They ask thee what they should spend in charity. Say: Whatever ye spend that is good, is for parents and kindred and orphans and those in want and FOR WAYFARERS (i.e. people passing by as tourists or travelers)." (2:215)

I think Muhammad had deep reverence for Moses' Leviticus society which also referenced "helping your neighbor". But he didn't have the intellectual rigor to understand that splitting the world into believer and non-believer was destructive to that spirit. Then again, neither did Moses who would raid countless nations while eschewing the same belief. Both are horrible men.

Both Muhammad and Moses only codified the natural human tendencies from time immemorial.They did nothing new.However what their followers unleashed is far more extensive than what the pagans did.

Distress sales were forced on people of other regions in Hyd during the 1960s Telangana agitation .So what guarantee is there that the same will not get repeated once police force is handed over to Telangana 7 years from now onwards.Perhaps the military top brass believes in 'might is right' moral.