That's a sweet deal, Ken. In fact, I have not yet ponied up for my TLCA renewal, so it is timely.

I planned on leading two runs (Fins, and Cliffhanger) so I think I will take it easy besides that. However, not being my first rodeo, I know I will be doing some tech and probably some rescue if someone needs on-trail welding again.

Hey Dave, you can navigate in the XO chair on the bridge of the Mighty Red Chili if you like. I kinda think my wife will skip Cliffhanger if she even shows up this year.

Heck, if I make it back from Cliffhanger in time for the dinner this year :lmao: I'd be happy to lend a hand. Since I hear Mr. Cheese has upped the requirements for vehicles running Cliffhanger, and we will start earlier, that might even happen.

I had to start this thread so not to dilute Romo's thread.

What is the big deal about Cliffhanger? The cliff is about as scary as finding a parking place at Stevenson on a meeting night. The only challenge is the first rocky hill at the trail head and the most challenging spot is the small ledge right after the creek crossing. Besides the incredible wow factor the rest of the trail as far as challenges is yawnville.

I guess maybe it's tougher in a Forerunner? :rolleyes:

Romer

01-16-2009, 06:22 PM

Tim and I made it up this far on a pre-run and then had to turn around to get back to camp and set-up.

All I heard is there is a real off camber point farther on that scares some people, but I didn't get that far. It was a fun trail.

Crash

01-16-2009, 07:12 PM

I had to start this thread so not to dilute Romo's thread.

What is the big deal about Cliffhanger? The cliff is about as scary as finding a parking place at Stevenson on a meeting night. The only challenge is the first rocky hill at the trail head and the most challenging spot is the small ledge right after the creek crossing. Besides the incredible wow factor the rest of the trail as far as challenges is yawnville.

I guess maybe it's tougher in a Forerunner? :rolleyes:

Uncle Ben, you reminded me of something...will you be helping Ige present the Phil Simmons Award this year? :thumb:
:cheers:

Convert

01-16-2009, 08:33 PM

Cliff Hanger is not that hard other than the entrance or the exit depending on the direction of travel

bh4rnnr

01-16-2009, 09:24 PM

I was able to run Cliffhanger with the Hatmans, and Wes one year. It did not seem that bad of a trail. I did fall off my line in the rock garden, but the ledge section was not that bad.

As Convert stated it seems the enter/exit is the tough spot. Though it helps to have your hubs locked in after that first decent.....

nakman

01-16-2009, 10:04 PM

It's all about the lines.. and finding the easy button (http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/uploads/nakman/nak_cliffhanger.WMV). ;)

btw, did they ever make the sequel? http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/02/16/rumor-sly-stallone-tackling-cliffhanger-next/

nuclearlemon

01-16-2009, 10:58 PM

run it with worn manual steering and you'll find it a bit more challenging;)

Uncle Ben

01-16-2009, 11:20 PM

Uncle Ben, you reminded me of something...will you be helping Ige present the Phil Simmons Award this year? :thumb:
:cheers:

I would be honored to do anything in Phil's name!

Uncle Ben

01-16-2009, 11:21 PM

run it with worn manual steering and you'll find it a bit more challenging;)

I fix my junk at home thank you! ;)

AxleIke

01-16-2009, 11:59 PM

I don't think that it has much to do with the trail being tough or easy.

I think it has to do with experience.

Last year the requirements for Cliffhanger were something like: 33" tall tires, and a rear locker.

A stock FJ Cruiser with new tires pretty much fits that description. If they've been decked out at the dealer with ARB front bumper, and factory sliders, then watch out.

If some one has been wheeling for a few seasons, and has been to Moab before, Cliff hanger is not a big deal with those requirements. If someone has just driven their FJ off the lot, and met some buddies from a forum who told him/her that Moab was a great place to wheel, then those requirements leave a lot to be desired.

If you've been wheeling for years, than the trail is a cakewalk with 33's and a locker. If you are brand new to the sport, this trail will have you sucking cushion. In a large group, a guy sucking cushion the whole way leads to a LLOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGG day.

Not to mention that there is a spot coming down Cliff Hanger that there are two very distinct lines. A solid axle line, and an IFS line. I got put on the SA line. I nearly crapped my pants, and was a bumper grab away from a roll. Get the wrong line, and it sucks BAD.

The truck may be capable, the driver may not.

I think that increasing the requirements beyond a stock vehicle makes a lot of sense.

(this post is in no way meant to be offensive toward any FJ cruiser owners. I used this as an example. Lots of 4runner and taco owners also fit the scenario)

Caribou Sandstorm

01-17-2009, 08:17 AM

Um.. Actually I did just drive my FJ off the lot with stock tires, factory sliders (which also handled the Ruub), had the bling skid plate at the time with factory bumper......The look on Robbie's Face when he got to my truck with wife, baby and golden retriever all in tow...as we all waited at the meeting palce at the park, was worth it's weight in Gold (I have only seen that look once since..the night you all met at Breck Brewery to discuss the Rubithon run and I show up lifted with new ARB bumper). Robbie, thanks again for your patience, guideance and basically openning the door to my new world that day..

Now having said all that and a few more days behind the wheel since then and I mean only a few...I would not suggest the same to another newbee in a stock FJC. I often thought about this trail after, thinking that was really dumb. IMHO, this trail should be run with lift, 33s, sliders and under armor..But I am sure there are many that can do it with less...Of course I believe the FJC is a very capable 4x4 to be able to do this trail stock but my wife reminds me it was the spotter making it happen...:-)

Here are a few pics of some crazy nut, helping a guy he just met, make it happen.... this is making me wish CM 09 was tomorrow!!

Cliffhanger = not that hard. Nice trail. Good challenge, not a lot of danger. Cleaning the climb out is an accomplishment, for me at least. Feels good. Love the creek crossing, fun to clean the climb back up. The two off camber spots will get your attention but there are lines that turn it into meh. One of my favs.

Even an 80 could do it. (had to slap back, Kevin...)

Cliffhanger starting at 9, leading a group with some stockers, some newbies, one manual steering stock geared FJ40, getting to the lookout, and trying to make it back to the BBQ with maybe not the best leader in Rising Sun?

Hard.

Red_Chili

01-17-2009, 09:01 AM

Besides, I'd like to hit both overlooks this year if possible. Probably requires an 8AM start IMHO. If we make good time, might even [edit: can't let the cat out of the bag...]

Uncle Ben

01-17-2009, 09:44 AM

Everything has a context, UB.

Cliffhanger = not that hard. Nice trail. Good challenge, not a lot of danger. Cleaning the climb out is an accomplishment, for me at least. Feels good. Love the creek crossing, fun to clean the climb back up. The two off camber spots will get your attention but there are lines that turn it into meh. One of my favs.

Even an 80 could do it. (had to slap back, Kevin...)

Cliffhanger starting at 9, leading a group with some stockers, some newbies, one manual steering stock geared FJ40, getting to the lookout, and trying to make it back to the BBQ with maybe not the best leader in Rising Sun?

Hard.

The overlook at the river canyon is unbelievable. Last time I was on it the wind was blowing pretty good. Just as we approached the last overlook a bird traveling at light speed went whizzing past heading straight up. We all went "whoa" as it was an eye opener. the bird was caught in an upstream air flow and was obvious out of control. About 30-50 foot over our heads as the bird floundered persistently it regained control and immediately flew down to the ground and landed. It was appearant that if birds wore parts his would have needed to be changed! The currant was so strong that we were tossing stones over the edge just to watch them fly up and land behind us. That was a lasting memory I will never forget!

The place on the cliff that gave Cliffhanger it's fearful reputation was dynamited several years ago and took it;s danger level down to very moderate numbers. I have climbed the entry/exit in nearly every line possible....in a mall Cruiser. The drop off at the bottom of the entry is growing every year and getting much harder. The ledge on the other side of the creek is also deteriorating and becoming a formidable obstacle. Once past those places the rest of the trail is argumentally one of the most scenic drives in the close vicinity. The lunch spot/1st overlook is a gas to watch Poison Spider challengers trying different obstacles.....don't forget your binoculars!

Beater

01-17-2009, 11:44 AM

I think it's all in what scares you... For me, it's a huge pucker. I don't like big drop offs. Period. I think it's very personal as to what scares you while driving. I don't think it has anything to do with difficulty.

Uncle Ben

01-17-2009, 12:01 PM

I think it's all in what scares you... For me, it's a huge pucker. I don't like big drop offs. Period. I think it's very personal as to what scares you while driving. I don't think it has anything to do with difficulty.

I think thats in a nut shell! My personal demons are coming down dropoffs that require free slides. I can drive up White knuckle Hill and giggle all the way but to come down it scares to pooh right outta me! I am very scared of heights but ladders and anytime I have to give up control while coming down seems to be the brunt of my phobia.

Red_Chili

01-17-2009, 03:56 PM

I am very scared of heights but ladders and anytime I have to give up control while coming down seems to be the brunt of my phobia.
You and me both. Actually I am fine if not pitched, going straight down. No worries. Throw in 30* to one side... not so much.

OK I was going to say something like " I don't like pitches either" but after those pics I lost everything................thanks Bill

Uncle Ben

01-18-2009, 04:44 PM

First time I seen Bills excellant photos I just laughed and moved on. This time I realized the cake picture was an actual cake Bill had at one time because why else would there be little red chili frosting decorations on someone else's cake? :lmao::lmao::lmao: Double laugh post good on ya Mr. Poopie Pants....:lmao:

Corbet

01-18-2009, 09:44 PM

The place on the cliff that gave Cliffhanger it's fearful reputation was dynamited several years ago and took it;s danger level down to very moderate numbers.

when did this happen. I have not been on the trail since probably 2000. I remember a pretty good ledge on the shelf road area but as I was on my mountain bike I probably didn't even hit the brakes. But I do remember thinking in a truck that might be a little exciting. But also agree the creek crossing at that time looked like its crux.

Uncle Ben

01-18-2009, 10:04 PM

The magic of searching found 2005 as the date it was "filled in." I thought it was dynamited but this article just states filled in....your search results might vary! http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php?id=67

Red_Chili

01-19-2009, 10:47 AM

First time I seen Bills excellant photos I just laughed and moved on. This time I realized the cake picture was an actual cake Bill had at one time because why else would there be little red chili frosting decorations on someone else's cake? :lmao::lmao::lmao: Double laugh post good on ya Mr. Poopie Pants....:lmao:
Those are rosebuds ya moron... LOL