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Posted:31st Oct 2001I was watching a special on Date line or Nightline whatever the hell the name of the show is tonight and it was all about E. It showed books written by a guy names strike and websites where you can find out how to make it and blah blah.But in the beginning of the show they showed some kids making a documentary about 24 hours of pure drug induced ecstacy, and everyone minute or so they would show these cracked out E-babbies spinning glowsticks. Needless to say they sucked, and all they could do was the weave and the "raver trick".You have no idea how badly i wanted to go slap em and tell em so sit the hell down. They are making everyone else who spins sticks look bad. And when people see me doing it in the street or at my mall and they ask me if i'm a raver or if i rave , i say no. I don't want to be associated with that crap. And i think it was lame of NBC to have that special because they showed where to get all the info you would need to make your own E and after i watched it i found the exact stuff they were talking about. If it hadn't been for there show i wouldn't have had any idea where to look.Lamers

Posted:2nd Nov 2001I really have to chime in on this. I am what many of you would call a 'Raver'. I wear funny clothes from time to time, I have done and will continue to do drugs as I see fit until such time as I no longer fell it necessary or entertaining. Do I do drugs at raves? No. Partly because with all the lights and interesting music, there is not really a need to seek altered states of conciousness. I am an 'old skool' party kid. I have been doing this before it became trendy and they started selling rave uniforms at Gadzooks. Unfortunately to the people who got into the scene for the pretty honorable reasons, we come to find now that our once utopian (for a night) atmosphere has become a political platform. The media has done an absolutely great job of carefully pointing out their finger to the youth of America and saying, 'hey kids! this is where you can go to get drugs! just look at how easy it is to 'score E' off this 'dealer'!' Then your basic law of supply and demand takes over. The teenagers and other youth who feel a need to experiment and fit in, borrow some money from mom to go buy some baggy pants and then sneak out and pay ridiculous cover charges to listen to music they don't really care about. The scene, with the help of the free press and MTV have effectively commercialized what once had some pretty good beginnings. I think my Brittish friends have a word that speaks volumes about this subject...BOLLOCKS!!!!!! Maybe it will lose it's popularity soon and we can put it back underground. Then no one can critisize 'Ravers' for wanting to spin glowsticks because they are a very neat art in a sense. If you people are so proud of the art of Poi, then you should be exstatic(no pun intended) that it is gaining popularity and that people want to learn it so badly. Once they learn enough, and if their heart is truly into it, they 'graduate' into fire and a deep respect for the people who perform this unique style of dance. Kind of like me! Non-Https Image Link Just remember that no one has the same tastes. Variety is the spice of life, and tolerance is how we can enjoy it. I think perhaps that is why the 'true' ravers practice this all the time with PLUR. Peace Love Unity Respector you may have seen me write it this way.PLUR(RE)It is something that my girl came up with when we opened our club: Youtopia.The RE is for Responsibility and EnlightenmentThink about it. PLUR(RE) ---J---

FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

Posted:3rd Nov 2001Alright, I am not a raver. I won't comment on that.I don't do E, soI won't comment on that.I did see the show and I do follow media on all this as much as I can, so here is where I come in.First of all....Those who aren't from the US prolly don't know...the show is Datelne NBC. It is a weekly national news show that covers storiesdeemed to be of public interest. They research, interview, edit and present a 15-20 minute report on various topics. It's sister show is 20/20 which does a similar thing but follows people around a bit. This particular show on raves was a continuation of a 20/20 show which followed two girls in the rave party scene. One who got out of it and went through rehab for her addictions and the other who stayed in the scene. The Dateline presentation was more of an overview to accompany the other show, focussing more on E.Now, why do they give information? Because there are backwater towns whose authorities know little about this stuff. Because there are ill educated parents who are concerned. Because there are kids who go to rave-parties and wonder what is in the stuff. They can get the information they want, and the show knows the stuff is easier bought than produced, as Josh said.Why did the ex-con guy speak up? They said that he was co-operating with officials (seems like he was busted) and this show was helping to reduce his sentence. The theory of you are better armed to fight if you are informed thing is at work here.Now, the show didn't say that all rave goers are E users. They gave a high percentage number of the amount who are users, and they didn't emphasize the number of non-users enough.The show never said that all glowstick users are on E either. They said that the use of glowsticks and other lighting effects at these parties enhances the effect of E and so tends to be a common companion to E users.The assumptions derived from this is purely in the public eye, and those who saw the show seem to have fallen prey, just as many will. It is like the if then logic mathematical equations.If you spin glowsticks then you are a rave goer. If you are at a rave then you use E.Therefore, if you use glowsticks, then you use E.Is it true? Hell no, but it is logical to come to this conclusion based off of the report, especially if you didn't hang on every word said, and most don't.What the problem is, now rave goers are pissed at the report. Parents and the public a freaking at the report seeing pissed rave goers and thinking the report true. It is a self feeding cycle of negativity.You are saying that you don't like to be pigeon holed into a stereotype or a media hype, yet you are pigeon holing the populice before they have judged you, by not giving them credit enough to make up their own minds about you standing there with glowsticks in your hands. Besides, how many glowstick spinners are there on this board who don't go to rave-parties at all? I think that percentage is ***very*** low and kind of backs up the statement that rave-parties and glowsticks go hand in hand (notice I did *not* say E).I agree that I don't think the show was good media at all. I think they left alot out and showed glowsticks way too much (they weren't that bad either) for the association it made.I think it will boom the sales of glowsticks.I think it will blow over in a month. This type of media has been going on for over a year.I think that media on spinners has been primarily negative anyway (both fire and glow, did anyone see the report on the Poi spinner who got 2nd degree burns and it echoed into all fire arts?). I think that it is up to us, how we deal with people, how we present ourselves and carry on in our lives that will change the media opinion. We have control over these type of situations and how they reflect on us, in the end.And for those who are interested, a few of the teen magazines also had articles about E use and raves over this past summer, many of which were accompanied by photographs of glowstickers and none of which had all that positive of coverage. I am sure your local library prolly still has them in back issues.That is my $.02.It's all about personal choice and perspective. Non-Https Image Link------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 03 November 2001).]

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:3rd Nov 2001Hey Myst. I never realised you felt that way about me. I've seen your picture and I have to say you are one gorgeous specimen of manhood. What say we get together sometime and I show what real love can be like?Yours forvever.------------------C@ntus

Posted:2nd Nov 2001ok having not seen the show, but in posession of a deep distrust of mass media I need a couple of questions answered;1) Was raving /on the whole/ presented in a positive or negative light?2) If Negative, how and why was it presented in a negative light?I suspect it was presented in a negative light, due to the drug implications.I think it would be niaeve to think that the media didnt intensionally include those implications. The ppl who write and edit these shows play on the audience's assumptions like concert pianists Non-Https Image LinkThey dont *have* to state what they are trying to say outright, they are more legally secure just to lead the audience to reach a certain conclusion.Josh

Posted:2nd Nov 2001**Takes a knee in front of Cantus** "If you'll have me, I'd be forever faithful and true, to only you. I'd stuff your inside and turn on my side so you can have some to.See where I'll be, While I take this knee,And you'll beg me not to stop."Love you more CantusYour "hubby" Eric

Posted:2nd Nov 2001::back on topic::Josh, the big misunderstanding on the whole is that this show wasn't actually depicting raving initially. The story was actually about E, it's history, components, use, availability, etc.Of course they are talking about E so raves come up.Because the shows are about drugs, anything that is brought up revolving this issue is put into a negative light.I think that if they were to document raves before the drug there would be a focus on the styles, the music, the attitudes being almost paralleled to that of hippies in the 60's, and then E would prolly come into it.Anyway...then when, in these E "documentaries" raves are brought up they are painted as social activities that do not really encourage social behaviour, drugs = peer pressure, music is too loud to talk, no supervision, tra la la......as if my high school socials were any better!Overall it is negative because of the angle that the show was starting from. And yes, in that respect I agree, the media is putting a negative spin on raves. It is more guilt by association than an outright attack.At least on the shows I have seen. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 03 November 2001).]

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:2nd Nov 2001hmmmmm.....I can understand why the media paint the current rave culture in the USA in such a poor light... I for one, love my drugs and freely admit that, but when I was informed that children as young as 13 years old are getting their hands on e and sneaking out their windows to go party, I was dismayed!I think that any culture which allows *children* to partake in such *adult* social situations should be confronted and painted in a poor light. these kids aren't making informed decisions and their care providers are clueless.

HoP Posting GuidelinesIs it the Truth? Is it Fair to all concerned? Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships? Will it be Beneficial to all concerned? If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

Posted:3rd Nov 2001I don't like the bullsh*t either. I AM A RAVER/PARTY KID. I SPIN GLOWSICKS AT PARTIES. I GREW UP AND DON'T NEED DRUGS TO HAVE FUN AT PARTIES. LOTS OF PEOPLE DO NEED THEM. The culture will never be left alone, so we need to get over it. It will always be an uphill battle and thats all there is too it. Ask you're hippie parents, and thier disco younger siblings. We will always be fighting the powers that be, so stop bitching about it and don't worry about what the world thinks of you, the people that love you should trust you enough to believe you when you tell them the truth. Who cares about the rest of the world, f*ck em! Beavers and ducks

Posted:3rd Nov 2001Thanks, Pele, for such a balanced response. I just had a revelation.... I believe that spinning was the "toggle" shot for a very simply reason: it looks cool...it looks like a lazer light show to the ex-hippie parents, jogging some of the memory they have left of those events...[This message has been edited by toneman (edited 03 November 2001).]