i would like to see PWG have their tag division compete under lucha rules(just the tag part not 2 of 3 falls) on a regular basis. honestly in a lot of matches who's legal becomes an afterthought anyways and i think it would be something to make PWG even more unique. DDT4 2012 would be a good time to implement the rule change, what do you guys think, good idea bad idea??

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:honestly in a lot of matches who's legal becomes an afterthought anyways

So then no point in having Lucha Rules, right?

Honestly it's too gimmicky. It was good as a one-off (Dynasty/Los Luchas at Steen Wolf) but PWG especially is a company that isn't lucha-heavy influence-wise. Likely this will never happen, people didn't even care that the Steen Wolf match was Lucha Rules.

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:honestly in a lot of matches who's legal becomes an afterthought anyways

So then no point in having Lucha Rules, right?

Honestly it's too gimmicky. It was good as a one-off (Dynasty/Los Luchas at Steen Wolf) but PWG especially is a company that isn't lucha-heavy influence-wise. Likely this will never happen, people didn't even care that the Steen Wolf match was Lucha Rules.

that's one way of looking at it i guess, but i'm not suggesting it to revolutionize the division or anything i just think they might as well have the rules allow the legal man to change w/o a tag if the tag rule isn't going to be enforced anyways. the fact that people didn't care that it was lucha rules at steen wolf i think suggests it's not TOO gimmicky.

and i disagree about the lucha influence thing, it might not be so much anymore but the promotion had a heavy M-pro influence originally.

I think the problem was that the only announcement about tag team lucha rules at Steen Wolf was that the only mention of it was on Joey Ryan's twitter, it wasn't mentioned in the press release, PWG's twitter, or even any announcement by John Ian when he announced the match

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:the fact that people didn't care that it was lucha rules at steen wolf i think suggests it's not TOO gimmicky.

But that's backwards thinking. They tried something, it wasn't cared about, so they should keep doing it because people didn't care?

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:and i disagree about the lucha influence thing, it might not be so much anymore but the promotion had a heavy M-pro influence originally.

I def agree with the M-Pro thing (Excalibur is a huge fan) but I know for a fact that the company has kept away from lucha libre for a reason. The bookers are not big fans.

no i think they should keep doing it because with the way their tag matches tend to go it would make sense that the rules allow it, the fact that nobody cared/noticed just means it wouldn't be a problem or all that noticeable a change, which is the point(again not trying to turn the division upside down or anything). some people might buy into the gimmick, others won't care or notice but i doubt anybody will be upset or turned off by it because in reality it's not much of a change anyways.

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:no i think they should keep doing it because with the way their tag matches tend to go it would make sense that the rules allow it

But the fact that people don't question how matches go in tags means the implied change is worthless.

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:the fact that nobody cared/noticed just means it wouldn't be a problem or all that noticeable a change, which is the point(again not trying to turn the division upside down or anything).

So you think it's a positive move to make a change that barely anyone will notice? And you think it's a good idea because, overall, the tag formula would be the same but with a different name? What does any of that accomplish?

LBOinyamouf4sho wrote:some people might buy into the gimmick, others won't care or notice but i doubt anybody will be upset or turned off by it because in reality it's not much of a change anyways.

And this is what it comes down to. It would be a gimmicky thing, as I said. Gimmicky/marketable. If someone sees a tag listed as "Lucha Rules" it might entice them more, but after 1 show even it would become an afterthought. Imagine the most recent PWG show but all the tags were "Lucha Rules"...but even as you admit, the matches basically stay the same. Nobody advances, in fact some might shun PWG for having taken a gimmick under their wing after being a rather "pure" fed for so long.

so this all brings up a good point/question: does it bother you PWG fans when the tag rule (who is legal?) is not enforced? Does the match lose credibility when the inevitable "break down" that happens in almost every single tag team match occurs, and falls are counted on wrestlers who are not "legal?"Lets hear everyone's thoughts.

luca brasi wrote:so this all brings up a good point/question: does it bother you PWG fans when the tag rule (who is legal?) is not enforced? Does the match lose credibility when the inevitable "break down" that happens in almost every single tag team match occurs, and falls are counted on wrestlers who are not "legal?"Lets hear everyone's thoughts.

i honestly don't care. especially since there are very few actual faces & heels in PWG, just Generico & the Bucks. Everyone one else just depends on the crowd. Legal man really doesn't matter if it's not face vs heel.

luca brasi wrote:so this all brings up a good point/question: does it bother you PWG fans when the tag rule (who is legal?) is not enforced? Does the match lose credibility when the inevitable "break down" that happens in almost every single tag team match occurs, and falls are counted on wrestlers who are not "legal?"Lets hear everyone's thoughts.

i honestly don't care. especially since there are very few actual faces & heels in PWG, just Generico & the Bucks. Everyone one else just depends on the crowd. Legal man really doesn't matter if it's not face vs heel.

These are people whose roles don't change. The only people that switch roles are teams like The Wolves and Appetite for Destruction, and some fly-ins like Strong, Ricochet, etc. The core roster has permanent roles.

luca brasi wrote:so this all brings up a good point/question: does it bother you PWG fans when the tag rule (who is legal?) is not enforced? Does the match lose credibility when the inevitable "break down" that happens in almost every single tag team match occurs, and falls are counted on wrestlers who are not "legal?"Lets hear everyone's thoughts.

i honestly don't care. especially since there are very few actual faces & heels in PWG, just Generico & the Bucks. Everyone one else just depends on the crowd. Legal man really doesn't matter if it's not face vs heel.

These are people whose roles don't change. The only people that switch roles are teams like The Wolves and Appetite for Destruction, and some fly-ins like Strong, Ricochet, etc. The core roster has permanent roles.

B-Boy's gimmick is to badass to be a face, future shock rocknes & SSB can get booed depending on who they face, during taylor boys vs B/kaddilak the taylors got cheered & b/kaddilak got booed, dynasty depends on the crowd, & AVALON GETS CHEERED FOR ALL THE FUCKING TIME! candice & willie are kinda faces, but it still depends on who they're faceing.

ok, generico & the bucks are the only TRUE face & heels. everyone else may try to be one or the other, but the PWG crowd does what it wants.

Too badass to be a face? What the fuck does that mean? Are you retarded?

So Cal Punk wrote:future shock rocknes & SSB can get booed depending on who they face

But their roles never, ever change. The roles these teams have played in their respective matches thus far were as faces. SSB faced RockNES, another face team...and they were both still faces at the end, hugging and shaking hands. Do you understand that people or teams of the same ilk facing each other doesn't automatically make one of them heel? Your logic is bad.

The point is these wrestlers play consistent roles. When Avalon gets cheered by a crowd it doesn't mean he's not a heel any longer; it means he's over with the crowd. Do you understand that, for example, if Avalon bullied Candice in the ring and got cheered for it, that wouldn't somehow make Avalon a face? When a crowd cheers the Taylors, who are bullying their opponents, that tells you more about the crowd than the wrestlers.

And shit like "Dynasty, depends on the crowd" is also absurd. They've been heels on a regular basis for months. People's reactions doesn't change the fact that the wrestlers are each playing a specific role. People were cheering the Candice and Avalon/Joey/Sky stuff at FEAR but that doesn't mean the crowd is now behind the heels. It's called a spot, it's done to get a reaction.

So Cal Punk wrote:candice & willie are kinda faces, but it still depends on who they're faceing.

No it fucking doesn't. Only people trying to get themselves over would boo them. They've both been underdogs the entire time they've been in PWG. How dense are you?

So Cal Punk wrote:ok, generico & the bucks are the only TRUE face & heels. everyone else may try to be one or the other, but the PWG crowd does what it wants.

So the crowd cheering the Taylors over Famous B and Kadillak now means their roles in the future will be reversed? Or is it fucking stupid to do on the crowd's part because each wrestler already has an assigned role? Hint: It's the latter.

Too badass to be a face? What the fuck does that mean? Are you retarded?

So Cal Punk wrote:future shock rocknes & SSB can get booed depending on who they face

But their roles never, ever change. The roles these teams have played in their respective matches thus far were as faces. SSB faced RockNES, another face team...and they were both still faces at the end, hugging and shaking hands. Do you understand that people or teams of the same ilk facing each other doesn't automatically make one of them heel? Your logic is bad.

The point is these wrestlers play consistent roles. When Avalon gets cheered by a crowd it doesn't mean he's not a heel any longer; it means he's over with the crowd. Do you understand that, for example, if Avalon bullied Candice in the ring and got cheered for it, that wouldn't somehow make Avalon a face? When a crowd cheers the Taylors, who are bullying their opponents, that tells you more about the crowd than the wrestlers.

And shit like "Dynasty, depends on the crowd" is also absurd. They've been heels on a regular basis for months. People's reactions doesn't change the fact that the wrestlers are each playing a specific role. People were cheering the Candice and Avalon/Joey/Sky stuff at FEAR but that doesn't mean the crowd is now behind the heels. It's called a spot, it's done to get a reaction.

So Cal Punk wrote:candice & willie are kinda faces, but it still depends on who they're faceing.

No it fucking doesn't. Only people trying to get themselves over would boo them. They've both been underdogs the entire time they've been in PWG. How dense are you?

So Cal Punk wrote:ok, generico & the bucks are the only TRUE face & heels. everyone else may try to be one or the other, but the PWG crowd does what it wants.

So the crowd cheering the Taylors over Famous B and Kadillak now means their roles in the future will be reversed? Or is it fucking stupid to do on the crowd's part because each wrestler already has an assigned role? Hint: It's the latter.

ok, let me try to rephrase my statement. there are faces & heels, but generico & the bucks are the only ones that get treated like face & heels by the crowd. They're the only ones truly over as face & heels, that's all i'm trying to say.

So Cal Punk wrote:ok, let me try to rephrase my statement. there are faces & heels, but generico & the bucks are the only ones that get treated like face & heels by the crowd. They're the only ones truly over as face & heels, that's all i'm trying to say.

But that's not true at all. They basically fall into the same category as everyone else I named. When The Bucks do their handspring back rake the crowd pops big. They pop for a heel move. It has nothing to do with who's a true heel; the crowd knows everyone's character and their motivation. When Ricochet was getting bigger cheers than Generico in their match Generico started doing heel-type stuff. The crowd still loved him, because they know the story being told. There are very few guys in PWG whose reception changes show by show, most of them are given the same reaction each time.

In my earlier post when I said certain guys like The Wolves and Steen & Dragon change roles. That's because, for example, The Wolves were bullying SSB in their match and Steen/Dragon were doing the same at KRR3. But the crowd loves them and won't treat them like heels because they know it isn't permanent, it's all character-driven.

So Cal Punk wrote:ok, let me try to rephrase my statement. there are faces & heels, but generico & the bucks are the only ones that get treated like face & heels by the crowd. They're the only ones truly over as face & heels, that's all i'm trying to say.

But that's not true at all. They basically fall into the same category as everyone else I named. When The Bucks do their handspring back rake the crowd pops big. They pop for a heel move. It has nothing to do with who's a true heel; the crowd knows everyone's character and their motivation. When Ricochet was getting bigger cheers than Generico in their match Generico started doing heel-type stuff. The crowd still loved him, because they know the story being told. There are very few guys in PWG whose reception changes show by show, most of them are given the same reaction each time.

In my earlier post when I said certain guys like The Wolves and Steen & Dragon change roles. That's because, for example, The Wolves were bullying SSB in their match and Steen/Dragon were doing the same at KRR3. But the crowd loves them and won't treat them like heels because they know it isn't permanent, it's all character-driven.

Whatever, my original point was that legal man doesn't matter in PWG, because the crowd still cheers for heel moves.