Tonya Cooley, whom you may remember originally from "The Real World: Chicago" and subsequently from "The Real World/Road Rules Challenge: The Ruins," is suing MTV and production company Bunim/Murray for alleged sexual harassment, discrimination, wrongful termination and sexual assault, among other claims.

In a complaint filed in Los Angeles Superior Court on October 27, Cooley also cites her fellow "Real World/Road Rules Challenge: The Ruins" cast members Kenneth Santucci and Evan Starkman.

Cooley alleges that while filming the reality show in Phuket, Thailand in 2009, male contestants, including Evan and Kenneth, "forcibly removed female cast members' bathing suits,"; inappropriately touched female cast members even though the women stated the physical contact wasn't welcome; and called the female cast members derogatory terms relating to their gender, among other allegations.

In addition, Cooley alleges that she raised this issue with MTV and Bunim/Murray, but was instructed to "just deal with it" as it was part of the challenge. She also claims that the behavior of the male cast members was otherwise condoned.

The complaint states that eight days into filming on a non-competition day, the cast members were given large amounts of alcohol before noon but limited amounts of food, and Cooley claims that she became "very intoxicated."

After a male cast member allegedly "forcibly removed" Cooley's bikini top while the cast was hanging around the pool, she says she retreated to the cast's accommodations.

Cooley alleges that after she passed out on the floor, Evan Starkman and Kenneth Santucci used another male cast member's toothbrush to rape her. According to Cooley, other cast members witnessed the alleged assault, as did the camera crews.

She also states that she believes MTV and Bunim/Murray were aware that the alleged event happened since tapes are monitored, but didn't notify her or take action against Kenneth and Evan. (Cooley says she was unaware of the assault but did notice lacerations and rash-like abrasions on her labia the next morning.)

Cooley was eventually terminated from the show after she slapped another cast member in a fight, and she says that MTV and Bunim/Murray "further mistreated" her by "subjecting her to stricter disciplinary rules than the male participants" because Evan and Kenneth weren't reprimanded.

Cooley is seeking monetary damages of an unspecified amount.

A rep for MTV told CNN that the network does not have a comment on the lawsuit.

She is getting at least 15 million, easy. Companies like MTV usually set aside no less than 25 million when something like this comes up and let it drag out to earn interest. This will never see a court room. If its true those cats should be praying they settle, if not they are doing at least 7 years and a day.

She was not out with friends and somehow was assaulted. She willingly went on a "reality" show(first red flag), on MTV (second red flag), started drinking heavily without eating before 10am, (third red flag), these flags can keep going, but you get the picture. The fact is she knowing did all these things with cameras rolling to get attention. When the attention became unwanted she wants to blame those around her for not doing what she was supposed to do, and that is take care of herself. Again-MTV-REALITY SHOW = BAD DECISION. She went on to make easy money.

I had a friend in college who remembered NOTHING when she got drunk. Nothing from the end of that first beer until she woke up the next day. I'll never forget going to the bathroom with her and getting stopped by these two guys she didn't remember who told her that they and their friends had had such a good time with her the other night. Sent chills down my spine and finally proved to her that we were telling her the truth about certain things she did and said when she was loaded (and it was also the start of all of us following her around when she decided to drink).

I hope she wins. Not only because she was assaulted, but because it may make the reality show producers think twice about their dumb non-reality reality shows. Imagine all the lawsuits.... Then we could get back to watching real actors on television.

At what point did it become "normal" to drink to the point of passing out or blacking out, before noon? I don't blame victims, but what happened to self respect and self control? At what point do you take responsibility for youself and think about what you do before you do it. Does anyone anymore think what consequences might come from their actions? Just asking.

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ok first of all the more people around the less responsible the others are a great example there was a women that was stabbed 17 times while going to her car first she was stabbed twice then the guy came back after no one called the police and there were ten witnesses when the police came they all came out and talked about it but never did a thing. I think that was part of it and honestly a rape victim is a rape victim and should have empathy for the person at least.

Is there a counter suit filed by the guy that had to brush his teeth with that stanky, yeasty tooth brush the next morning? The damage to his breath may be cause for a suit against her. Talk about morning breath! Although wrong, the guys may have been sending a message to her, but Listerine would have been more effective, with less damage.

Seriously though, I am willing to bet that if she won, she wouldn't be suing....just looking for another payday. But what do I know? When I take someone to Phuket by way of Bangkok, they are always willing.....

Another instance of MTV brutality. Hope this finally ends the sick, sordid MTV era. What a horribly devastating influence on American society. Also the music is terrible, what little there is. How about renaming it Boring Talk Vision.

We need to untrain ourselves from believing the claims of women when they make these "ACCUSATIONS"! Thats all they are! In this country its very easy for women to falsely accuse men of various crimes, and women even play the "VICTIM" when caught molesting young boys! This is just a claim, that may be UNTRUE!!!!!!!!

Okay, I'm not "blaming the victim" but what is this NONSENSE about the cast members being GIVEN alcohol in large amounts. I'm sorry, but was anyone force-fed alcohol??? Was a tube inserted down anyone's throat and liquor was forced... you see what I'm saying?

Where is the accountability? Again, I'm not saying the assault or the rape or whatever happened was her fault. BUT she needs to own up to the fact that she put herself at risk. She got herself drunk. Period. If she had gotten behind the wheel of a car and decided to drive, the courts would find her liable. She would have to accept the responsibility for her poor choice-making. Same here. She didn't ask to get raped.

But this notion that MTV put her at risk by supplying alcohol? Puh-leez!

I don't get this Don't Blame the Victim movement. As far as I know no proof has been released. We have a woman who was passed out drunk, woke up with abrasions down there and thought nothing of it calling two men rapists.... with a toothbrush and in the national media no less. There is way too much crazy out there to take anyone's word on anything.

People who believe that tv shows that put people at risk of abuse are fine and should carry on are sick. It is not whether she is opportunistic – it is the framework and process flow that MTV set up that is flawed. As long as that flaw exists that show cannot go on. And if she can prove that flaw exists, she must be compensated.

Imagine you are a high climbing electrical high tension technician. No processes, no work flow, no precautions, no OSHA – it comes with the job and you have to take your own precautions. If you fall or get hurt – too bad.

Sick individuals enjoying people being exposed to threats to suffer the consequences.

I remember when MTV first came out is was all music all the time. But now it's crap like this. I never watched it and never will. However I know that these reality shows are stupid and are "reality." I had a friend recently in one that was featured on CMT and they followed him everywhere, wouldn't let him got to church, and he had to tell them that they could NOT go to his work (he works for the state.) They made the schedule for he and his wife's daily activities outside of work and then when the show aired, it portrayed him in a rather bad light. I haven't seen it since I am deployed but all of our friends said that it was not a show worth watching. Reality shows are stupid and don't show anything real.

I heard about a similar incident occurring in Dallas, too. However, I'm not sure it was this extreme or even really happened. http://www.DallasLife.TV is the website. I'm wondering if these new reality shows are going to be popping up everywhere.

I was recently made aware of something similar in Dallas, Texas. However, it was not this extreme at all. A group of youngsters were put in a house together with alcohol and they began to act wild. I heard rumors that there wasn't enough food so that they would keep eating, but this was later proven false. I do believe this program is about to come out and seems a lot like "real world" and "jersey shore." It's called 'Dallas Life." http://www.dallaslife.tv Sounds like another teenage raunch fest...I'll be watching, of course!

Marie
She wasn't raped...And I wonder how many of those incidents occurred whilst being pretty intoxicated. Sorry, not going to feel sorry for her...Maybe she should of tried college instead of a reality show...Anyone will do anything to make a quick buck...And FYI she was a total hypochondriac on the show...There was something "always wrong"....Can't say she's contributing much to humanity...

October 28, 2011 at 7:40 pm | Report abuse |

I can't wait for someone to rape Marie when she's sleeping so I can tell her it didnt really happen!

I hope she wins the law suit. Hope the evidences in the lawsuit would lead to criminal charges.

If you produce a show that requires putting someone in the threat of physical assault and harassment, then you must pay the cost of such assault having happened.

Facing threats of such kind of assault is not a reality tv challenge. For example, you cannot produce a TV show where the threat is a religious fundamentalist who believes in kidnapping and assaulting women to be his wives. If you cannot produce a show where you can assure your challenges do not translate into illegal assault, then you should stop producing the show – or we will have to file a complaint with the FCC and FBI against you . And those who watch to enjoy the show would be culpable as accomplices to the racket.

I think that if someone had robbed me last night, I wouldn't wait 3 frigging years to report it. Tonya is a bonafide gold digger. A real actress or woman would completley dwart her. Tonya, go out into the real wordl and get a life!!

You probably are too dumb to realise that there are people who wait for years before they feel assured enough their case would be accepted. There are people who could lose their jobs. Then moron might say – if you cannot face the threat then get out of the movie business.

Do you mean to say acting is not a legitimate career and they must accept risks beyond that of a technician or engineer? Do you mean to say that if a nurse faces harassment in her work, she should go elsewhere to work. What a bunch of Saudi Arabian Wahabists!

I am MORTIFIED at how u people are responding to this...."he who is without sin cast the first stone" in lamens terms that means be willing to take at look at yourself before you judge someone else. We should be outraged at even the THOUGHT of someone doing something as hurtful and terrible as this, and supportive of the woman who MAY truly have a valid story. As a victim of abuse, i know how terrible it is to deal with, i have suppressed emotions in regards to things that have happened to me for YEARS and am just beginning to deal with them. Tonya was ALWAYS messed with on the show, ( i used to follow it) theyTORMENTED her, yes, she may have struggled with alcohol abuse but that does not make her worthless and it does not open a door for a man to take advantage of her. I am DISGUSTED at the majority of your comments and am baffled that u people even consider yourselfs human. You should be ashamed of yourselves, and you really should grow up. Always give someone the benefit of the doubt in cases like these. Why in the world would she ever want to ruin their lives like this?? if they did something so terrible they should pay!! i feel sick

Only she gets the benefit of the doubt? She's accusing two fellow human beings of rape. Two human beings with normal lives... anyone want to guess they're out living their lives or does anyone else think they're hiding at home so they don't get their butts kicked? It's a very serious allegation and none of us have seen any proof in either direction.

You girls who are defending her are absolutely retarded. If you've seen the show you know she has no credibility. Second of all, why wait three years, then sue someone OTHER THAN THE ONES WHO RAPED YOU? I would absolutely never take the side against the victim that might have been raped, but I also do not believe that multiple cameramen and castmembers WATCHED SOMEONE GET RAPED WITH A TOOTHBRUSH, AND THEN NEVER SAID ANYTHING!?!?! every single part of this screams bs.

I have watched these shows since their inception and I find it entirely believable that it could happen. Also, it doesn't take a genius to come up with a few logical reasons to why she would have waited (just read the posts). I agree that I will hold out for more information given Tonya's reputation on the show (She's definitely a nutcase), BUT I would also argue that the behavior of the jerks (because they sure aren't men) towards women on the show doesn't help their case either. If their behavior wasn't so grotesque maybe I might actually agree with you. But I don't.

See the thing I don't understand (assuming her story is true) is why she would choose to sue MTV and it's subsidiaries, but NOT the three individuals who ACTUALLY committed the act of rape (as she alleges it).

I think that's why most people are accusing her of being a "gold digger," and one of the main reasons why her argument seems disingenuous – apart from being filed THREE YEARS after the allege rape occurred.

What did you expect to happen on a sleezy network like MTV? Granted, the girl should have been tipped off by the vomit smell in the air, but the carrot MTV held under her nose hid the odor quite nicely. I feel sorry for her if she was the victim of a rape, but what did she expect? If MTV could have gotten away with it, they would have filmed the whole "reality" event. And, of course, garnered an audience to "support" them. They may still buy her a new toothbrush. After all, they are known for their ethical behavior...so they say.

This was something like her 10th show on MTV. She was not a doe-eyed ignorant. Just a washed up has been with a very serious drinking problem and need for attention. Why else would someone eat bugs and make out with a Thai stranger of dubious gender?

I remember Tonya. She was AWFUL when she was in Chicago. I never saw her on the subsequent seasons she was featured in but I still remember her from that first show. She's is a bully and pretty much fought with everyone over nothing. I'm not saying this stuff didn't happen...but I'm not surprised she has a lawsuit after getting fired. She's a vindictive B.

All these people in the article are nothing more than White Trash... a more urban variety. Trashy behavior is all the rage these days it seems. If this is really what passes for entertainment in the US these days, then we are beyond hope as a culture.

I wonder how many of those incidents occurred whilst being pretty intoxicated. Sorry, not going to feel sorry for her...Anyone will do anything to make a quick buck...And FYI she was a total hypochondriac on the show...There was something "always wrong"....Can't say she's contributing much to humanity...If she were truly upset about what they DID she would press CRIMINAL charges. She's suing for $$$. She wants $$$...

This doesn't surprise me at all. MTV lets all kinds of unacceptable behavior be broadcasted on their network, so I can only imagine the kind of things that are left on the cutting room floor. Although to be fair, most of these contestants are no-talent publicity hounds who will do anything for their proverbial 15 minutes of fame, so she's probably doing it more to cash in rather than to address wrongdoing. In any case, I hope she wins her lawsuit – one more nail in the coffin for this kind of trash TV.

A person like her perplexes me..... i am trying so hard to believe her but everything i am feeling tells me she is out for a payday...... I have learned to trust my instincts..... so im calling her out.... Golddigger!!!!!!!
MTV should counter-sue for defamation and then see which crap stinks the least.... at least both parties then have level playing field....
The More Counter-suits happen the less likely Goddigger...... (MEN and WOMEN) will sue without proof...... and women..... i have included men in this arguement so don't start a gender thing because men also get raped and they also gold dig as well!!!!!!!!!!

also.... if its not about the money then tell everyone that you will donate all proceeds to charity that way the media and people in general will tend to believe you..... because ladies and gents nobody take anybody seriously unless you put your "balls" on the table and risk it all for what truely is The Truth!!!!

only have info from article, but telling me that they gave the cast alcohol and hardly any food....DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU DRINK SO MUCH YOU PASS OUT!!! HELLO, who's fault is that? and the only evidence she has is a rash...how do we know she didn't have the rash prior(if there was even a rash at all, it was several years ago. did she take a picture? other than the ones she usually takes)

if she was going after them in a criminal court because she wanted justice i would back her completely but its only civil and she wants money... if you felt violated and raped (which she may feel) then money wouldnt even be a factor.

she's probably doin it just for the money and potental fame....and she's blown ALOT of it out of proportion. Wouldn't surprise me one bit that it's payback towards the guys from something consensual between the three of them

BuzzA you must be one of the few Real Men left ! So many of you want to slam the girl but did you watch the show at all ? Do you know about contract laws and clauses ? Or just running your mouths ? Those two men are all over the net laughing at the allegations and at the same time reffering to her as the brushed trout . . . doesnt sound like they are anything but sick jerks . And contrary to your stupidity being drunk doesnt deserve rape in any form.

Isn't the whole point of real world to get young people trashed and Fu€k3|)??? I thought that's why you signed up for something like this. That's really all they ever show on MTV anyway, no one would watch if it was just ugly people doing those stupid challenges that are only 5min of the show anyway. The rest is the drama of getting smashed and hooking up. She should have just opened her mouth like the wh0£3 she was getting paid to be. I mean, if something like that happened to me, I would have been gone that night, not stick around. It's not like she didn't know someone did something to her when she woke up.

It's just a number game. Money, money, money. MTV will settle this out of court They really don't have a choice. It's much cheaper to simply throw money at someone like this... and they *will* go away.

at least you all dont have to see her everyday in person and listen to her squacky annoying voice! Or watch her get so drunk that she pees her pants.... we do! ugh, she is disgusting. she is so different than she was in high school, she treats evryone like dirt and thinks she is so famous that she is too good for anybody. a complete embarassment...

If the contract does not say anything about not being protected from potential rape, and the contract was signed in the USA, there's still some grounds to seriously shoot these mother****ers. Sorry. I'm not saying the girl isn't completely stupid. She may be. But that doesn't mean someone can take her out of her normal safe area, or coerce her out of her normal safe area with the promise of money, and put her in a country where she'll be raped for the purposes of filming her rape. That's called human trafficking.

Disgusting trend is developing here. The patriarchs and fascists here need to get a grip. I hope your daughters, sisters, wives, and mothers don't know what it's like to be abused like this and then have a bunch of masochistic men and arrogant boys spit at them like what is going on here on the soundoff boards.

I hope mtv finally dies because of this. Since all they do these days is promote complete tools this is hardly surprising. They're so out of touch it's ridiculous. Ironically a lot of tools seem to be here today, perhaps because the news item mentioned their favorite network >.<

People don't understand how long lawsuits actually take. It's not like she woke up yesterday and decided to file. Once an intent to sue is given to the opposing party, any legal action goes through mediation and sometimes arbitration before a lawsuit is filed. That means, Cooley might have been trying to settle this for a long time and MTV wouldn't budge or wanted to fight.

If the alleged rape has witnesses and caught on tape, MTV is going to lose more than just millions of dollars.

Although I don't condone this kind of behavior, she must have been really drunk. I mean she got felt up by the tooth brush and did not know it? I am sure it happend, she liked it and now she can't get casted for anything because she has no skill or talent. She needs money and is suing. If I got raped by a toothbrush I would have contacted authourities immediately. Watch out Lindsey she is going to steel your adult toy money you want.

RSF....I too was raped by my toothbrush and it no laughing matter...the upside is I get comments on how minty fresh I smell..the bad part is I cry when I brush my teeth now!! How dare you question her motives!! Maybe the toothbrush threatened to do it again!! You should be ashamed of yourself!!

Having watched that season of the Challenge, this lawsuit doesn't surprise me. Kenny and Evan were portrayed as total and complete a$$es on that show, and their obsession with making Tonya and other women feel like dirt seems pervasive. I realize I wasn't there and I don't know the truth of this matter, but as a viewer, I find this lawsuit completely plausible. On the other hand, Tonya also seemed to be a bit psycho and a whiner, but...I could see this happening. I wish everyone the best, and may the truth be revealed.

i watched her season on real world. she was a whiner and complained constantly, she coudn't do any work because she had kidney problems( going to the hospital on a few occasions). with all that i was shocked to see her on the challenge shows a she refused to do anything on her original show( not even the household chores)!!!!!!

I totally agree with you, I stopped watching the challenges after that season because of all the misogyny that was going on. It really got too sickening for me. And the worse part about it was that most of the females on the show did not stand up for the other women, they were just as disgusting as the offending males.

remember s3xual assault is based on the perceptions of the ACCUSER who felt harrassed, not the fratboys of an MTV show in paradise. Getting drunk was her own doing, and while probably condoned and party refreshments provided by MTV, they still have a responsibility to care for their cast, respect their opinions and provide a safe working envirnment where actresses don't have to fend off fellow cast members from making unwanted advances.

PAY HER... PAY HER BIG $$$$ You get as much in publicity as you pay out, and it is what you'd expect when your programming and viewer base is Jersey Shore and Housewives of wherever, where cat fights are ratings, and basal mentalities are the desired audience.

Why would she stay with the show after having been raped with a toothbrush? She should have quit and left immediately. I doubt she didn't know. I mean really, who would stay quiet about this if everyone knew about it? And the article doesn't say how she found out or when.

Steve it sounds like she obviously has a story to tell and it would not have gotten all the way to CNN if there wasnot SOME credability to it. People will do anything to stop the harrassment when no one else will listen. God forbid she defends herself.. against a man. Millions of brave women right now are doing that, it's called self-defense. Either way.. you were not there.. let everyone have a say. It's obvious MTV has something to hide if they are not releasing anything right now.

Credibility? Just because it was reported on CNN.com DOES NOT give it credibility. I've seen articles about Vampires and Zombies. It's like the management says something to the effect of "Okay writers, try to write as many superficial articles as you can, GO!" The "victim" has had no other persons come forward. She CHOSE to drink alcohol just like she CHOSE not to eat food. Some people might say bad things happen to bad people. You could place bad with stupid here. Whether that is "right" or not is a whole different matter.

It's a bad day when people believe that their news is 100% accurate and factual. I mean, damn... it's very clear natural selection does not exist within the human race any more by reading these comments.

I am sure that she could find other means of swindling money.. she is not being a gold digger. she is defending herself when being pushed down. she wouldnt have kept it up for so long if that was not the case.

Just because you are "given large amounts of alcohol before noon", doesn't mean you have to drink so much that you pass out and don't wake up even though people are "raping" you with a toothbrush. In fact, you don't have to drink at all. I think most people, who aren't alcoholics or losers, start drinking sometime AFTER NOON.
It doesn't make what happened to her right, but she could have avoided the situation entirely by just using a LITTLE BIT of self control.

Thats what their "job" entails. Sometimes people forget how much they've had compared to how much their body can handle at the moment, especially in that kind of environment. Its not like they were sitting around playing chess, listening to Mozart with a bottle of wine or a scotch on the rocks.

So let me get this straight... she's sueing them because they treated her horribly *and* because they made her leave (fired her)?
Isn't that a bit like the old joke about "the food is terrible...and such small portions too..."?

No, it sounds like someone was molested with a toothbrush. you must take every alligation you take seriously! look into it, let her have a word in what she says about what happened to her body. Maybe she was under contract and had to wait a couple of years before being released and being able to say anything. Shame on you, I swear it is like we all took 40 steps back since the passage of roe vs wade.

Amazing how the whole Real World franchise has gone downhill from the first few seasons and devolved into "Girls Gone Wild". I remember in the Real World LA season how David was kicked out for pulling away the blanket from his roommate – now something like this happens and they do nothing?!

Everyones blaming her for trying to get paid when she was clearly raped and victimized by sick twisted and demonic individuals, friend. Its sickening. She should be compensated because the directors of the show allowed her to be raped and did not even have the courage to tell her and instead kicked her off the show. The creators of this show are demons.

How could you find the lawsuit insulting and how do you know she's looking for a quick buck? Did you win the lawsuit already or something? The fact is we haven't been presented with the FACTS so reserve judgment about how insulted or not you are until that happens. Why wait so long... someone just answered above, and reasonably at that. The alleged assault occurred in THAILAND, but when the show was released to US audiences she then had a potential lawsuit on her hands. Please read carefully before penning your disgust at a woman pursuing justice... whether guilty or not. That's the way the justice system works in America.

She claims there is video. There is no proof of any video existing. She is out to make money just like most women that wait forever to come to light. I bet she wishes there was some celebrity in the house she could name to make more cash.

I am sorry, I don't believe for one minute that everybody on the show & the camera crew members didn't do ANYTHING to stop these men from using a "toothbrush" on her. LMAO... I am so sorry, but this claim is hilarious. I don't believe this. Not ONE person stopped these guys from touching her? COME ON!!!!!!!!!!

International laws work differently. 'I'm a rape victim' doesn't give you license to blame the victim either, or assume she's gold-digging. Especially if it's on tape. Shame on you. You should know better. People deal with things differently. For shame. Show some compassion.

If you truly are a rape victim then you should understand that everyone does things differently. How disgusting you are being to another rape victim and judgmental. As a rape victim myself, I find your comment offensive.

You have to file criminal charges within the jurisdiction that the criminal offense happened. In this case it was in Thialand. American courts have no jurisdiction over this as a criminal case, but she can file a civil suit in the US courts.

Jennifer, if you truly are a rape victim (I doubt your claim based on your lack of awareness about how these issues work and lack of empathy), you would understand that there are many legitimate reasons why she may have waited.

I forgot MTV existed. Doesn't surprise me that this allegedly happened. I wish we could file a class-action lawsuit against them for making people like Lady Gaga and Justin Beiber famous, as well as making America's youth dumber.

I agree so Wholeheartedly with this answer. MTV is way to full of itself and is starting to act like that boss who doesnt have to pay attention anymore. They are ruining lives I know 4 different Girls under 20 in the last year that have all thought it was ok to just pop one out and play the victim when it doesnt work out and their life goes to crap. Thanks MTV. Wanna fund all the Welfare victims you Creat?

MTV didnt make lady gaga and justin bieber popular. the radio and promoting did. Hell MTV doesn't even really have anything to do with music anymore. Unless you think Teen Mom and whatever else they show on repeat day after day is music.

We obviously can't know why she delayed, but here's one likely possibility:

She [most likely] raised this a long time ago, directly with MTV. To avoid further embarassment to all concerned they would have tried to settle before she filed. You don't just run out and file a lawsuit you send demand letters, try to discuss settlement, maybe even have a mediation in some instances. She would have filed the actual lawsuit only when the statute of limitations was approaching. I'm a lawyer by the way who handles these type of lawsuits.

its funny alot of people are commenting that the rape was taped i saw no where in the article that it was taped, yes it does say everything they did was taped but it doesnt say in the article that this was taped, she is assuming ( according to the article) that it was taped and the producers knew about it. also it is funny that she was kicked off the show for assult ( which she could be sued for too) and you would think a rape is definatly a worse thing,