Pashos doubtful: Right tackle Tony Pashos was limited Friday and is doubtful with a left ankle injury.

If Pashos can't play, he'll be replaced by either Oniel Cousins or Artis Hicks. But Hicks, who was signed Sunday, must also be ready at left guard, where starting rookie Jason Pinkston is suffering from a knee injury. Pinkston was added to the injury report as probable but practiced fully.

Linebacker Chris Gocong (neck) was also limited and is questionable. He'd be replaced by Kaluka Maiava. On the plus side for the Browns, tight end Ben Watson (hip) participated fully for the first time all week.

Pashos, who missed most of last season with a right ankle injury, was vague about his injury.

"It's a soreness, something that's preventing me from doing things at a high level right now," he said.

He said he would've benefited from being able to work with the Browns' trainers during the off-season, but the lockout prevented it.

I hear you, but if Pinkston is getting killed they can always put Hicks in. He's a 10-year vet with over 60 career starts, so he should be able to at least hold his own. It's not like the Bengals have Ndomukan Suh.

Cousins probably starts at RT, which is not good, but if he was good enough to make the Ravens roster for three years and Heckert snapped him up as soon as he was cut loose (after the Rats signed Bryant McKinnie), then he must be able to play a little. I'm not a huge Pashos fan even when he's healthy so it might not be much of a drop off.

fucking right side of the offensive line! didn't do shit to help it in the off-season. Pasho's is unreliable as all hell.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Prosecutor wrote:I hear you, but if Pinkston is getting killed they can always put Hicks in. He's a 10-year vet with over 60 career starts, so he should be able to at least hold his own. It's not like the Bengals have Ndomukan Suh.

Cousins probably starts at RT, which is not good, but if he was good enough to make the Ravens roster for three years and Heckert snapped him up as soon as he was cut loose (after the Rats signed Bryant McKinnie), then he must be able to play a little. I'm not a huge Pashos fan even when he's healthy so it might not be much of a drop off.

Still, you have a good point. Love your columns, by the way.

Thanks, and I still maintain that the Browns might've pulled that out at the end with adequate RT play. Cousins was released early by the Ravens - if he had any value at all, they would've at least kept him as a backup.

FUDU wrote:Anybody who blames Colt or Haden for this loss should check themselves into the "I didn't watch the game and have no idea WTF I am talking about" clinic.

I can provide transportation if you need it.

You already know the route, that much I am quite sure of.

Guilt getting to you pup, I mean really I suspected you'd be in the bunch I just didn't think you'd jump at the chance to be the first.

I can put you down for blaming Colt no doubt.

8 penalties in 18 minutes and the debacle that was the super sneaky hey look over there while we snap it play fall on the coaches as much if not more than the players, and after the way the players stepped up to turn this game around they didn't deserve to lose b/c of such of monumental blunder.

Lots of blame to go around today, but little of it goes to the brightest spots on the offense and the defense.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Anybody who blames Colt or Haden for this loss should check themselves into the "I didn't watch the game and have no idea WTF I am talking about" clinic.

I can provide transportation if you need it.

You already know the route, that much I am quite sure of.

Guilt getting to you pup, I mean really I suspected you'd be in the bunch I just didn't think you'd jump at the chance to be the first.

I can put you down for blaming Colt no doubt.

8 penalties in 18 minutes and the debacle that was the super sneaky hey look over there while we snap it play fall on the coaches as much if not more than the players, and after the way the players stepped up to turn this game around they didn't deserve to lose b/c of such of monumental blunder.

Lots of blame to go around today, but little of it goes to the brightest spots on the offense and the defense.

Haden not so much.

Punch and Judy Colt though? He got 2 shots at a game winning drive. The first, on 3rd and 10 he through the go route. And missed it by Lake County. Poor choice, worse execution. Then he got it back and on 4th down threw it to his center. His god damn center. Who wasn't even open.

FUDU wrote:Anybody who blames Colt or Haden for this loss should check themselves into the "I didn't watch the game and have no idea WTF I am talking about" clinic.

I can provide transportation if you need it.

You already know the route, that much I am quite sure of.

Guilt getting to you pup, I mean really I suspected you'd be in the bunch I just didn't think you'd jump at the chance to be the first.

I can put you down for blaming Colt no doubt.

8 penalties in 18 minutes and the debacle that was the super sneaky hey look over there while we snap it play fall on the coaches as much if not more than the players, and after the way the players stepped up to turn this game around they didn't deserve to lose b/c of such of monumental blunder.

Lots of blame to go around today, but little of it goes to the brightest spots on the offense and the defense.

Haden not so much.

Punch and Judy Colt though? He got 2 shots at a game winning drive. The first, on 3rd and 10 he through the go route. And missed it by Lake County. Poor choice, worse execution. Then he got it back and on 4th down threw it to his center. His god damn center. Who wasn't even open.

There is a time to shine as an NFL QB. Ours went bitch.

Colt provided a game winning drive, problem is the coaching staff never instilled any discipline into the defense on how to avoid getting burnt by 4th grade flag football stunts. Colt didn't play exceptionally well, however he made enough plays to keep this team in the game and over come a 13 pt deficit (by putting up 17 unanswered points) and give them the lead in a crucial moment of the game.

Just b/c you reply to game threads doesn't equate to you watching the game, and pull your pants up your agenda is showing.

FTR I have roughly 90 minutes a week to spend on the Internet right now, I'm not wasting more than 4 of them on you and your subjectivismness.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Anybody who blames Colt or Haden for this loss should check themselves into the "I didn't watch the game and have no idea WTF I am talking about" clinic.

I can provide transportation if you need it.

You already know the route, that much I am quite sure of.

Guilt getting to you pup, I mean really I suspected you'd be in the bunch I just didn't think you'd jump at the chance to be the first.

I can put you down for blaming Colt no doubt.

8 penalties in 18 minutes and the debacle that was the super sneaky hey look over there while we snap it play fall on the coaches as much if not more than the players, and after the way the players stepped up to turn this game around they didn't deserve to lose b/c of such of monumental blunder.

Lots of blame to go around today, but little of it goes to the brightest spots on the offense and the defense.

Haden not so much.

Punch and Judy Colt though? He got 2 shots at a game winning drive. The first, on 3rd and 10 he through the go route. And missed it by Lake County. Poor choice, worse execution. Then he got it back and on 4th down threw it to his center. His god damn center. Who wasn't even open.

There is a time to shine as an NFL QB. Ours went bitch.

Colt provided a game winning drive, problem is the coaching staff never instilled any discipline into the defense on how to avoid getting burnt by 4th grade flag football stunts. Colt didn't play exceptionally well, however he made enough plays to keep this team in the game and over come a 13 pt deficit (by putting up 17 unanswered points) and give them the lead in a crucial moment of the game.

Just b/c you reply to game threads doesn't equate to you watching the game, and pull your pants up your agenda is showing.

[b]FTR I have roughly 90 minutes a week[/b] to spend on the Internet right now, I'm not wasting more than 4 of them on you and your subjectivismness.

Any way we can get that down to 9?

Love the agenda angle. Like I am trying to get a job in the Browns front office. Or I am trying to land any type of job or a promotion.

FUDU wrote:Game winning drives are not exclusive to < 2 minutes on the game clock.

Tomorrow we can cover the numbers 1 & 2 and the letters S F & M.

Come on. You all remember the times they showed the great ones and all of their brought the team back from 13 down in the second quarter stats. They show it all of the time. They really love to highlight the times they do that, and end up losing by 10 after they throw fourth down passes to their centers. Sorry, covered centers.

FUDU wrote:Anybody who blames Colt or Haden for this loss should check themselves into the "I didn't watch the game and have no idea WTF I am talking about" clinic.

I can provide transportation if you need it.

You already know the route, that much I am quite sure of.

Guilt getting to you pup, I mean really I suspected you'd be in the bunch I just didn't think you'd jump at the chance to be the first.

I can put you down for blaming Colt no doubt.

8 penalties in 18 minutes and the debacle that was the super sneaky hey look over there while we snap it play fall on the coaches as much if not more than the players, and after the way the players stepped up to turn this game around they didn't deserve to lose b/c of such of monumental blunder.

Lots of blame to go around today, but little of it goes to the brightest spots on the offense and the defense.

Haden not so much.

Punch and Judy Colt though? He got 2 shots at a game winning drive. The first, on 3rd and 10 he through the go route. And missed it by Lake County. Poor choice, worse execution. Then he got it back and on 4th down threw it to his center. His god damn center. Who wasn't even open.

e0y2e3 wrote:Too early to quit on the kid, be real and I didn't have even 1% hope he would finish or start that drive.

Fact is this team blows goats.

Colt is still a WHODAFUCKKNOWS.

And the team still blows.

Frankly, one more game like this and they return to I Don't Give A Fuck land.

Rather gamble and watch that.

It IS to early, no doubt, but I'm sure you have watched enough to differentiate between a PLAYA and a BUST OUT....against that crappy defense, at home, and in the opener, he HAS TO cash in one of those two drives...he didn't. We are in the Luck sweepstakes whether we like it or not....meanwhile I'll go back to by spreads and my fantasy players.

It wasn't quite the Rudd Helmet Toss, but fact is they gave the Bengals a gift touchdown late in the 4th quarter with a 4 point lead. And the Bengals with Gradkowski at QB had little to no chance of scoring a TD conventionally.

OK, let's not overreact. I assume these first game glitches will be corrected.

I assume Lavauo will not get called for a false start twice in the first five snaps the rest of the season.

I assume the Browns bench will not get penalized for knocking down an official the rest of the season.

I assume the Browns will not be penalized seven times in the first seven minutes the rest of the season.

I assume the members of the kickoff coverage team will line up correctly the rest of the season.

I assume Cribbs will learn that when a punt is bouncing around inside the five yard line, the correct technique is to run past the ball and wait for it at the 1-yard line rather than follow it on tippy toes and then try to dive on it as it crosses the goal line.

I assume Little won't take out our punt returner while blocking the opponent's punter, who had no chance in hell of tackling Cribbs, who was on the verge of putting us in position for the tying field goal until Little slammed into him.

I assume our punter will get over his first game yips and avoid shanking two punts in one game, at least most of the time.

And most of all, I assume that when the opponent's offense breaks the huddle and lines up to run a play, the Browns defense will notice. Every damn time.

But even if all that crap is cleaned up, it won't change the fact that the offensive line got manhandled by the Bengals front seven, which is a competent unit but nothing special. In retrospect, it should have been obvious. We had two guys starting at guard who never started an NFL game. We had a guy who just got cut starting at right tackle. Hillis and Hardesty had to fight for every yard, and the pocket collapsed on Colt consistently. I don't care what offensive scheme you run, if your O-line is getting dominated the scheme won't work. Both of the Browns big plays offensively came off rollouts, one by design, one not.

Right now I can't think of a single team the Browns should be favored against. The Colts? They got humiliated today and will be looking for payback at home next week. But they're one of the few teams (if any) that are in worse shape at QB than the Bengals, so you never know.

Any good news? Well, Hardesty made it through the game and didn't look bad at all. Massaquoi got open two or three times. The kickoff coverage team stoned the Bengals at the 10-yard line - twice. Haden looked like Minnifield in his prime until that gift touchdown. To be fair, the replay showed the Bengal receiver on the opposite side of the field was also running uncovered with his arm in the air. Wish I could be a fly on the wall in the film room when they review that one.

Really bad debut for Shurmur. Not only did his team literally give the game away, they looked incompetent with those ridiculous penalties. He needs to start cracking the whip a bit. And find an offensive line.

Prosecutor wrote:But even if all that crap is cleaned up, it won't change the fact that the offensive line got manhandled by the Bengals front seven, which is a competent unit but nothing special. In retrospect, it should have been obvious. We had two guys starting at guard who never started an NFL game.

Uh, I think you were the guy who was looking forward to the rook playing and writing that Steinbach would not be missed. Just sayin'.

FUDU wrote:Anybody who blames Colt or Haden for this loss should check themselves into the "I didn't watch the game and have no idea WTF I am talking about" clinic.

I can provide transportation if you need it.

You already know the route, that much I am quite sure of.

Guilt getting to you pup, I mean really I suspected you'd be in the bunch I just didn't think you'd jump at the chance to be the first.

I can put you down for blaming Colt no doubt.

8 penalties in 18 minutes and the debacle that was the super sneaky hey look over there while we snap it play fall on the coaches as much if not more than the players, and after the way the players stepped up to turn this game around they didn't deserve to lose b/c of such of monumental blunder.

Lots of blame to go around today, but little of it goes to the brightest spots on the offense and the defense.

Haden not so much.

Punch and Judy Colt though? He got 2 shots at a game winning drive. The first, on 3rd and 10 he through the go route. And missed it by Lake County. Poor choice, worse execution. Then he got it back and on 4th down threw it to his center. His god damn center. Who wasn't even open.

There is a time to shine as an NFL QB. Ours went bitch.

SD:

Everytime you think you can close the door on the Andrew Luck talk , Colt kicks it back open .

Reminiscent of Charlie Frye who showed so much promise as a rookie then choked under the pressure of being the man .

pup wrote:What exactly makes you think any of those things won't happen again?

Assumptions.

I assume Pros was being a little tongue in cheek with some of his assumptions. I hope so, because for the first time I can remember (for the right reasons) he made me laugh a bit.

Especially with the 'when the offense breaks the huddle..' thing.

No, it wasn't tongue in cheek. I don't think these these will happen again for the same reason I don't think the Browns will ever lose another game because a player throws his helmet, or that the Browns will lose a starting offensive linemen because a penalty flag hit him in the eye. These things are so bizarre they could only happen once. I've never seen the quick snap work before and I'm confident Jauron's first order of business this week will be to make sure it never happens again. Even if the defense gets caught with their pants down again at some point you can bet Shurmur will be screaming for a time out instead of assuming the ball won't be snapped.

Maybe I'm just an undying optimist.

The real problem is the offensive line and the wide receivers. Other than that one long pass to Massaquoi on a busted play we got nothing from the wideouts. 40 passes thrown and only six completions to the wide receivers. Pathetic.

The O-line is paying the price for the Steinbach injury, failing to re-sign Pork Chop, the Yates sudden retirement, and Pashos being hurt once again. Not sure there's a fix for that this year, or for the WRs either.

McCoy certainly deserves some criticism for not initiating scoring drives when they were most needed. However, the failure of the offense in the second half was a combination of three intricately interwoven factors: McCoy taking too long to get rid of the ball, the offensive line collapsing on McCoy, and receivers just not generally getting open. If receivers get open, McCoy gets rid of the ball a split-second earlier, and the line doesn't have a chance to collapse.

In the Green Bay-New Orleans game Thursday night, Aaron Rogers and Drew Brees were throwing -- and completing -- passes to receivers who weren't very open, either. But McCoy can't and shouldn't be expected to be a Rogers or Brees at this early stage of his career.

jerryroche wrote:McCoy certainly deserves some criticism for not initiating scoring drives when they were most needed. However, the failure of the offense in the second half was a combination of three intricately interwoven factors: McCoy taking too long to get rid of the ball, the offensive line collapsing on McCoy, and receivers just not generally getting open. If receivers get open, McCoy gets rid of the ball a split-second earlier, and the line doesn't have a chance to collapse.

In the Green Bay-New Orleans game Thursday night, Aaron Rogers and Drew Brees were throwing -- and completing -- passes to receivers who weren't very open, either. But McCoy can't and shouldn't be expected to be a Rogers or Brees at this early stage of his career.

We still need some wideouts who can create separation.

Would love to know where you got the coaches tape to know this. Just because the guy he threw to was not open at the time the ball got there does not mean nobody was open.

It is the debate that will never settle. QB Fan says receivers are not getting open. WR Fan says the QB cannot get them the ball when open. And neither group knows if either is true.

I know it is only one game, but in essence it is much more. It is 20 plus years of floundering either with the Modell regime, the blank years, and now this constantly morphing vision of BS. They may or may not be moving in the right direction, I don't know, I am not that football savvy. I am just a fan, a frustrated one who is losing his ability to endure this crap. Living out of town and being around people from different areas with different allegiances is interesting enough but now they don't even laugh at the Browns they show pity. I maintain that I wish I would have made the break in 1995 and not looked back. I am getting to the point where I enjoy watching the Saints, Patriots and even god forbid, the Steelers more than the Browns. I don't feel that is out of any front running "gene" in me but it is fun to watch a team that can play the game with grace and efficiency.

In the words of the immortal Forrest Gump, "that's all I have to say about that"

Are you simply saying Luck will not be any different than Colt without better teammates?

Are you saying even as bad as all of those things you point out, they are not bad enough to land #1?

Are you saying they could land #1 and pass on Luck?

I think the one thing we know about this front office is, they will hang whoever out to dry they have to. So is the plan to let Colt flounder with shit around him to justify taking Luck? Will they step out of their box and improve the offensive players once they have a QB they truly believe in?

Are you simply saying Luck will not be any different than Colt without better teammates?

Are you saying even as bad as all of those things you point out, they are not bad enough to land #1?

Are you saying they could land #1 and pass on Luck?

I think the one thing we know about this front office is, they will hang whoever out to dry they have to. So is the plan to let Colt flounder with shit around him to justify taking Luck? Will they step out of their box and improve the offensive players once they have a QB they truly believe in?

First, if the Browns are in position to take Andrew Luck, then they'd BETTER take Luck or Heckgren should be murdered on the spot. There are very few teams that I could understand passing on Luck should they be in position to get him.

Second, I have to believe that the Browns will try to improve the Offensive talent if they get Luck or not. I find the notion that the Browns are trying to Suck For Luck incredibly naive, but if they were indeed doing that, I would say it was brilliant. But I think the plan is much more likely Get Young And Take Your Lumps Now.

Either way, they'll try to get whomever the QB is a Deshaun Jackson or two in the near future.

A Deshaun Jackson would be fantastic, but I expect next year's draft will be mostly if not all defense.

The backup DT's are Schaefering and Paxson. Huh?

Fujita is nearing the end of the trail and we got no legitimate NFL linebackers behind him.

Same with Sheldon Brown. We'll need a new starting OLB and CB next year along with depth on the DL. And that's assuming either Usama or Mike Adams steps up and nails down the starting safety job. If not, we'll need one of them, too. that's already 4-5 picks that almost have to go to the defense.

Paddy was pretty complementary of Pinkston in his first start, and Steinbach's agent says he's definitely coming back, so left guard should be OK. They like Lauvao at RG so we just need to sign a dependable RT in free agency.

RB should be fine with Hillis, Hardesty, and Jackson. I can't see them taking a WR in the first round - they're counting on Little and Massaquoi. TE and QB are set. It will be a draft heavy on defense.

hiko wrote:I think they'll draft heavy on D too, but they've got 2 picks in the 1st round next year, so they might throw one of those at WR (wouldn't mind Blackmon from OK State).

Agreed, they might, but I'm optimistic that both Little and Massaquoi will show enough over the next 15 games to make Heckert feel pretty comfortable about the starters, at least to where he won't use a 1st round pick on a third wideout. With tight ends like Watson, Moore, and Cameron (assuming he makes progress) and RBs who are excellent receivers like Hillis and Brandon Jackson (next year), this offense will rely much less on WRs than most. If Heckert is happy with Little and Massa as his starters with Cribbs/Robo as the #3, I can't see him spending a 1st round pick there when he needs 2-3 immediate starters on defense and a lot more depth.

Of course, if Little and Massa disappoint and Blackmon is the BPA, all bets are off.

Pure speculation. C'mon dude, if you have insights into the SHUR MUR playbook please stop holding back and let us know.

And the last time a team used RB dump offs and TE seam routes to march through the playoffs was..............

Look, if you are saying that our TEs are way better than our WRs so we will take what the D gives us because we have to then Ok. But please don't tell me that this is part of "The Master Plan". Because it is most assuredly not.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

No shit. I long for the days of the Mangini-Kokinis axis plundering the 2009 draft. Not to mention adding the trifecta of Elam, Ratliff, and Coleman after trading down 3 times in the first round. That was an FO the fans could get behind.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team