>>399163115.56 has higher velocity (if fired out of the same length barrel as a .223) and a different headspacing design among other minute differences but to call them the same round is blatantly retarded it's like calling 7.62x51 NATO and .308 the same round it's just factually wrong

>>399163165.56x45 is already higher pressure than .223 Remington, but the shoulder geometry is different. This causes the 5.56x45 to not expand as much as it would in a 5.56 chamber, causing even higher pressure. If you fire a .223 Rem in a 5.56x45 chamber, you'll lose a bunch of accuracy. .223 Wylde chambers correct both these issues.

>>39916319Beretta is literally one of the oldest family owned businesses still around. That alone should be claim enough.

>>39916330>same round is blatantly retarded it's like calling 7.62x51 NATO and .308 the same round it's just factually wrongFor all intents and purposes they ARE the same round>inb4 different pressure!different testing methods yielded different results who fucking knew.

>>39916301I fucking know.>Beretta's history goes back to 1526 when they sold arquebus barrels to the Republic of VeniceI don't understand the hate Italy gets on this board. Ironic that we get more love on fucking /pol/ than here, where I'd expect to find people that know about military history beyond pop culture memes

>>39916307>>39916316>>39916347They actually don't have different chamber dimensions anymore as any gun made in the last 30 years that is ".223" is just a 5.56 chamber. You really only have to worry about older Mini 14s.

There is also actually no difference between .223 and 5.56 by CIP specs, but yet again SAAMI fucks up and lets shit like this through. Seriously, as someone who enjoys milsurp, fuck SAAMI.

>>39916705Of course Cadorna was an idiot, everybody in Italy knows that. We always had problems with masonry and politics infiltrating the high ranks of the military. But we had good commanders nonetheless: Diaz, Reverberi, Messe... it all depends how deep you want to get into history

Eh. Italian laws aren't bad, they are simply utterly retarded. Imagine a Fascist framework mangled by 80 years of lawmakers that don't know jack shit about the subject randomly making changes.

Thus, you can keep for example 1500 rounds of 7,62x54r rounds because they are "hunting ammo" while max 200 .22LR because you don't hunt with them. Italian laws are a mess, but they aren't bad. Simply a mess.

Italy has better laws than California. Not even joking. Sure, you don't get carry laws, but bar some specific hellholes you don't need 'em. We aren't France. Also Italy is like....what, one of the last 4-5 Euro nations with still a gun manufacturing capability up? What's left, Czechland, Austria, the krauts, waffles and us? Not counting Eastern Euros, they had the commies forcing them to keep their gunmaking capabilities up.

>>39916828>Italy has better laws than California. Not even joking. Sure, you don't get carry laws, but bar some specific hellholes you don't need 'em.>we can't carry guns but we're still better nice Euro cope

>>39916828>can only own a small amount of ammunition>no carry licenses >apparently can't own military calibers so you have to own bullshit 9x21mm pistols>you can get .223 but not 5.56mm>just recently allowed to own an ar15 in 2018How are you better than California again? Your country houses Beretta, can you even own the firearm in pic related?

>>39917878Yeah, we don't have any out here in Canada, either. Though when you get into the really large calibers, you find that most of the rounds available on the international market are incendiary and that's pretty iffy in most countries. What you see a lot of is fully machined 14.5x114mm projectiles. Imagine the possibilities for AP!

We have our fair share of retarded gun laws:>No 9x19 for handguns so we have to use 9x21>No 5.56 or 7.62x51 Nato so we can only have .223 or .308>No silencers>Set amount of ammo that we can own>Paperwork to fill when you buy ammo/guns

Aside from that I would say that our gun laws are good:>No SBS/SBR restrictions>You can buy basically whatever you want (article is bullshit, buying an AR has never been a problem)>Neat Italian guns like Matebas, SPAS 12 or 15 etc. can be found relatively easily and don't cost an arm and a leg

>>39918024too bad the article is literal fake news, the only good thing that happened is that they doubled the unregistered mag cap and "sporting weapon" ownership cap, the rest either hasn't changed (such as being able to own scary-looking guns in the first place) or got worse (need club subscription for registered mags and modern milsurp, license validity reduced to 5 years, etc.)>tfw your country's most pro-gun judge even whined to the EU Parliament about the new law because not enough shit got banned

>>39922591>>no SBS/SBR restrictionsthey kinda did with the new A8 category bullshit, though for now according to the BNP they're safe as long as the barrel is under 30 cm (11.811" for Americans) or the overall length is 60 cm with the stock folded

>>39922591>ammo limitHow do they know how many rounds you have? I get it that there is a limit on how many you could buy in a year or something, but what is to prevent you from storing it and buying more after the time runs up?

>>39923178basically every dealer is required to tell the police how much ammo/gunpowder you bought, but whether the limit is on buying ammo or how much you can own at any given time pretty much comes down to how much of an asshole your local prefect is

>>39923549it has for revolvers (or at least the BNP let Taurus sell a 9mm one on our market) but good luck getting anything else, and even then you'll have to find someone stocking it without being v& by the police afterwards

Tbh, we dodged a bullet with the new laws, completely ignoring the new EU retardation bar for A8. Mori was butthurt because his proposal (a incredibly shitty law built to fuck milsurp collectors in the ass) was ignored by everyone.

Good fucking riddance, he's very knowledgeable but he's also a Forza Italia stooge, and they are anti-gun.

>>39929528in Europe we have a category called "demilitarized weapons" (it's called A6 now iirc), which are basically surplus full-fun guns but the selector has been made inoperablewith the last law they made them a pain to get though with "high capacity mags" (basically anything holding more than 10 or 20 rounds depending on barrel length) making the gun illegal the moment you put one in, even if you have a sports shooter exeption to own said guns and mags in the first place

with a sport permit in italy you can own 3 rifle 5 handgun and all the shotgun you want.this permit do not allow you to carry your weapon, you can transport it but in a gun box closed with key.in order to get this permit, after the law enforcement criminal record check, you have to do a class at your nearby gun association and the final exam is shot 20 shotgun shells and 20 9x21 round on a paper target.using a weapon detenuted with a sport permit can be used in order to defend himself in your home, the trial for self defense in italy can turn bad due the comunist judge and public prosecutor.

>>39919092The "controversy" comes from the fact that some 7.62 machine guns have looser headspace to prevent stoppages with shitty bulk ammo. I think the idea is that running hot hunting loads through them will damage the neck, and if you reload without checking tolerances you might blow out your brass. I've never heard of it actually being a problem though, and apparently neither has anyone else.

>>39931089you fucked up the weapon ownership caps, they're actually as follows:>12 "sporting" guns (pistols, SBRs, SBSs, scary-looking weapons, etc.), used to be 6 until a few months ago>3 "common" weapons (air rifles, shotguns bigger than 12ga, shit the BNP couldn't be assed to classify properly, and now even modern milsurp), the mags are restricted to 10 (used to be 5 until the last law)>8 antique or unique firearms (basically BP or guns that used to belong to someone important)>no limit on "hunting" weapons (basically any long gun but as of 2015 it can't be scary-looking), the mags are gimped to 5 for rifles and 2+1 for shotguns (plus triple barrel shotguns are only allowed if one of the barrels is rifled)>you need to register all weapons (including daggers, swords, bayonets, knuckle dusters, etc.), all rifle mags holding more than 10 rounds and all pistol mags holding more than 20

>>39931170Then again if you're shooting a machine gun I've never heard of someone loading 308 into a belt to feed to said machine gun. I was always under the impression that m80 you buy in a box is just delinked machine gun ammo.

Eh, happens when you have to wait until 35 to marry 'cause shit income, insane rents and most of the women are kinda sorta bonkers. And the stereotype now works against Itas, when you travel around sometimes you get the leper treatment 'cause every female thinks itas are Mario-speaking black-skinned drooling harassers. In be4re "how can you be Italian you are white"

>>39916369Not really... the market for 9x21mm is big enough for us to have all the cool guns and reasonably priced ammo, well accounting that our ammo limits also makes the ammo market quite restricted so... we'll never have the "bulks" and price will be always high anyway. That's why every serious pistol shooter reloads. I do. Pic related - we're talking 4€/50 hard cast instead of 12€/50 FMJ sellier & bellot.

>>39916283Also this guy here. My only big regret is that we still don't have a domestic AR from a major manufacturer, dammit. And beretta can keep that shitty overpriced and fat ARXplastic for me.

>>39922673I feel for you man, for us here in croatia they removed the 5 year validity of licences and its a one time thing now, with no ammo cap and you can own 100 round mags, but if you put that mag in a gun, you can lose your licence and guns.

Also anyone here familiar with buying guns acrss EU borders, i wanna get a VZ-58 but there arent any retailers in ny country.

>>39932723I don't know about buying in other countries but according to CZ's website there's this licensed dealer called Lovac trgovina in Croatia (http://www.lovactrgovina.hr, can't speak Croatian so I can't help you any further than this), have you tried contacting them first?I think you can probably order one from them

>>39932723Does your country have a registering program?I may or may not have smuggled gats for low prices and then just went "look Goverment I found this gat that must have belonged to my grandfather thanks 4 letting me have it k thnks bye"