The Word Of The Lord In Dreams

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed ForClarity, Continuity Of Thought, And PunctuationBy The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

After dinner I fell asleep in the chair and I guess it was about -- after the 10 o’clock news, and I fell so out of it, you know. I did not hear anything that was going on, and I guess it was after 12 o’clock that I woke up with this [?blue star?] like -- well, I thought it was Sheila over me, like, real high, and I cannot remember --

[INAUDIBLE] I just want everybody to be aware that it was not me that was over June, especially when she describes me as being so high. In this hour, Jesus Christ is a spirit. He has no form or sh- -- well, that is not true. He does have a form or a shape, but it is a spiritual form. As far as a -- as far as a human shape goes, in this hour, we -- those of us in whom Christ is living, we are his flesh. The man Jesus of Nazareth no longer exists. That flesh was crucified, and it was broken down into its basic atoms and reformed into the spiritual man, which Jesus is that man which is living inside of us, our new man, OK.

So when Jesus wants to appear to us, first -- but -- and aside from all that, we do not even know what Jesus of Nazareth looked like, so when he wants to appear to us in a vision or in a dream, he takes the form of the person that you know of who has the highest authority in Christ. So when June saw me in a size much bigger than I am, if that ever happens to you -- you should know, if you see me in a vision or in a dream coming to you with a message, that it is not me, that it is the Lord Jesus Christ appearing to you in my flesh or in my form. So -- and when that happens, what he is saying to you -- what this spirit is saying to you is, look, this is the Lord Jesus Christ, and I am appearing to you in the form of my servant that has the highest office that you are aware of. OK, it was not me that got so big. Does anybody not know what I am talking about? That was a visitation from the Lord himself to June in my form.

And I remind you that when Samuel [sic] went to the Witch of Endor and asked her to conjure up the prophet Samuel, OK, the witch did that, and the witch said to Saul, “I see something. I see something.” And what did Sa- -- what did Saul say? Does anybody know? What form -- what form is he in? In other words, the witch was saying, “I see a spirit. A spirit is coming up,” and Saul said, “What is his form?” We know that he is an invisible spirit, so who is he appearing as? He is appearing as the -- as the prophet Samuel.

OK, so you did not see me last night. You saw the Lord Jesus Christ who took the form of me, the servant that you know of which has the highest spiritual rank which is in your life at this time, OK?

And it ha- -- I do not remember what the words were, but it was an urgency. I cannot describe it. It was like -- it was calling me, you know, in urgency, and I woke up at this star, and I said, what? And it frightened me because it was so -- it was such --

Intensity.

-- yeah, intensity, and then I went to bed, and I could not sleep for about three hours.

I wonder why.

I was so wide awake, and I said, oh, I go- -- I have got to sleep, and then --

I have got to sleep [CROSSTALK]

I have to -- I have to go to sleep.

I have been there.

And all these imaginations are coming into my head, you know, all these different things, and I was trying to put them down, and then he put on my heart -- well, I thought it was my car- -- carnality because I had just listened to a woman by the name of Myra [sic] Angelou on the television last -- the night before last, and she encouraged children to write poetry.

And she spoke before the president at his -- I believe it was in inauguration. She had a poem that she -- she overwhelmed the whole crowd there, and even the president got up and gave her this tremendous hug because she brought to life, I guess, part of him and whatever was happening.

And so she encouraged the children to get into writing poetry to express themselves, and it -- and it really encouraged me because I just felt that we have something all inside that we want to express, and it is so hard to just say it, but when she came out with this poetry, it just -- it was real deep, and it brought out such beauty.

And so I felt that last night. I felt, like, oh, I want -- I want to do that, you know, and I am thinking it is my carnal mind, so, you know, I just started to write. And I -- and I have the poem, but I really have not gotten it down pat, so I do not know whether I should --

You are not ready to give it to us?

-- read it yet.

OK. That is up to you.

OK?

OK.

OK.

Before we go any further, --

[INAUDIBLE]

Yeah, OK. Just put that on pause for a second.

I want to add this. Rosie [SP] and I were sitting when June was asleep. She slept for quite a while, and when she woke up, she said, “What?” And she looked all around, and she says, “Where is Sheila?” She says, “It is time. It is time. It is time.” And then she says, “Time for what?” She says, “Maybe go to bed.” I said, no, it is deeper than that.

Hmm.

I think it is time God is getting us ready, and I do not know if you remembered that or not, --

[CROSSTALK]

-- but you wanted to go back to sleep again, so --

I did not know if that was what the words [CROSSTALK]

Well, it was. “It is time. It is time.” And I said, no, it was -- I knew that that spirit was not to go to bed.

OK. Would you like to explain tha- -- about what it was time for? [CROSSTALK]

I felt it was time for the Lord to get ready, that he is going to have a son or sons arise and come forth.

What does that mean?

And it means that God is going to use these sons to bring in the rest of the body, and they -- he is going to raise him up in full stature.

What does it -- what does it mine [sic] -- mean it is time for a son to come forth? Joseph [sic] does not know [INAUDIBLE]

Oh, it means that sh- -- whoever comes forth, it is time --

What does “come forth” mean?

Come forth, it is going to be full stature. They are going to be able to minister to the rest of the body to bring them forth in time, --

OK, let -- let me [CROSSTALK]

-- but they are going to be working in the power.

OK, let me help you. Listen.

OK.

Listen, OK? What is about to happen is that the Lord Jesus Christ -- remember, I just spoke a few minutes ago. I said, the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth no longer exists, and what we are waiting for, what Celie [SP] means by “come forth,” what is meant by full stature, is that this invisible man, the Lord Jesus Christ, is about to appear in some human being. He is about to take over their body, just like the body snatchers, and he is going to express his person and his nature and his mind and his miracle-working power through one human being and eventually many human beings on the face of the earth.

So that is what full stature means. It means the invisible Lord Jesus Christ is about to appear to the fullest extent possible in a fallen human being with all miracle-working power and wisdom that was in Jesus of Nazareth. That is what we are all waiting for. Much of the church world is waiting for it. The Bible says the whole creation is waiting for it. They may not know it in their intellect, but in the Book of Romans we are told that the whole world -- the whole creation is, what? Standing --

[INAUDIBLE]

-- on tiptoes waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God, waiting for a group of people through whom the glorified Lord Jesus Christ will be fully expressing himself with the full measure of power to do what? To deliver every drug addict on the face of the earth from the bondage he is in, to deliver every alcoholic, to deliver everyone caught in sexual sin, to deliver everybody caught in any bondage, physical infirmity, to raise up everybody above the affliction in their life and bring a full spiritual, emotional and physical healing. That is what the whole creation is waiting for.

So -- and we have -- we -- the church has much reason to believe that it is about to happen in the very near future. Jesus said that no man knows the exact what?

[INAUDIBLE]

The exact hour, but we know the season. He said we know the season. There are signs out there that will tell us it is about to happen at any moment. We just do not know the exact day, but it is going to happen real soon. It is like you see a pregnant woman. You know she is pregnant. You know that there will be a child born at some time in the future, but you do not know exactly when.

It is awesome.

It is awesome, yeah, that this great grace is about to appear to humanity once again, the Spirit of God, without measure -- an immeasurable flow of the miracle-working power of the Lord Jesus Christ is about to flow into this world just as if you took a plug and plugged it into the electric outlet and turned the light on. And everybody that understands this is waiting on tiptoe, which means they are looking for it. The indication in the Greek is they are looking for it. They are watching for it.

And everybody that does not have this revelation, their heart of hearts is looking for it and watching for it. They may have a wrong thought in their mind. They may think their savior is science, or they may think their savior is the New Age, but everybody is looking for deliverance from the bondages that are covering this world like a blanket, even to this kind of [?head cold?head called?] suffering everywhere -- suffering everywhere, everywhere you look. Different measures, different degrees, but everybody has got something. There is suffering everywhere. Why? Because the name of this world is?

Something happened to me today when June was playing. I do not know if I ever experienced this before -- but I did get up and get coffee and different things with people, but it was working on me. But as soon as I sat down, the tears started flowing and a deep repentance of asking God, you know, to get me ready. So He is doing something.

Yeah. Well, one of the things that we expect to happen -- why? Because it has happened in the past when God has moved mightily. You see, God is like a wave. He comes in like an ocean wave, comes in like a tidal wave, and he brings with him miracle-working power that convicts men of sin. There is not just healing and deliverance. We are convicted of sin when we see the holiness and the power of God. We realize what a bunch of rats we all are.

Yeah.

You know, we all are. We are all rats in this sinking ship down here. The best of us, OK, next to Jesus, --

Right.

-- we are dirty. We are spiritually dirty, every one of us. That is why Jesus said, you better not point at your brother and say, “He is more dirty than I am.” God does not want to hear it. We are all dirty, and we all need the same cleaning. It is true that some of us are more dirty than others, but to say “he is more dirty than me” is a spirit of pride. The Lord could say that, you see. The Lord could say, “If you are dirtier, you are going to need a couple of more scrubs with a brush,” but we cannot look at our brother and say, “Well, he is more dirty than I am; therefore I am OK.”

It does not matter how dirty your brother is. If you bring forth the dirtiest person in the world, you are still dir- -- I am still dirty; you are still dirty. So Jesus does not want to hear you saying, “He is dirtier than me.” Jesus can say, “You are a little dirty. Come here. I got another scrub for you,” but we cannot say it because it is pride, and it is self-righteousness saying that we are clean, and we are not clean. None of us is clean. None is righteousness. No, not one. We exist -- we breathe because of the mercy of God. We have a roof over our head and food in our stomach and clothes on our back, by the mercy of God, and there is nothing here that we deserve. Yeah?

So you are saying that not one of us in this world seeks righteousness as Christ, if he could, would want us to. [CROSSTALK]

No, I did not say that.

Is that what you are [CROSSTALK]

No, I did not say that. Many of us are seeking righteousness, but we are not righteous. I- -- righteousness must be given unto us; it is not ours.

OK.

You have to receive it from the Lord as a gift. Many are seeking righteousness, and --

[?And they will?] never find it.

-- they will not find it unless Christ gives it to them, but, you see, that is a good question.

[INAUDIBLE]

The Lord --

That is another thing because if people -- and so -- let me see. You could have a man or a woman filling up halls full of people and ministering to them, but if this -- these people are not -- if they are seeking righteousness, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] whether -- if Christ has not given them this righteousness, then it is a waste. [CROSSTALK]

Well, yes and no. You see, we have an in-between stage, you see. The Lord does recognize that there is a company of people in the earth, that the earth is in two -- in two parts, let us say. People who are unrighteous and do not give a darn, -- you know, they are just doing their thing -- and then there are people who are unrighteous, but who are seeking righteousness. That is the two categories of people. So the Lord has said to many who are seeking righteousness, “I will give you a temporary righteousness. You do not deserve it. I know that you are spiritually dirty just like everyone else, but because you are seeking righteous, I am going to give it to you. I am going to count you as righteous. I am going to treat you as if you are righteous for the purpose of getting you cleaned up so that I can give you the real thing.” Can you hear that? So there is a people in the earth in this hour that he is working with who are striving for righteousness, who are changing from the inside out because Jesus has given them power to change, because he is honoring their desire to be righteous.

So we get cleaner, and we get cleaner, and we get cleaner, but we will never be completely clean. So the way the Lord describes it is like this: Let us say this is the ceiling, OK, and there is no way we can get over this line. We could be all the way down here, and we get cleaner, and we get cleaner, and we get cleaner, but when we get up to here, the only way we are going to go past that is when the Lord reaches down out of heaven and yanks us up.

So that is what we are all waiting for because those of us who are here, we have been doing the best we can to be righteous for years. We have been confessing our sins and repenting and studying the word of God and doing everything we could do. We desire to be righteous, but the best we could do is not good enough, so we are waiting for the moment. The Scripture says a door is about to open in heaven, and the Lord is coming through, and he is going to lay hold of us and drag us up, and suddenly we shall find ourselves righteous. After years of trying and crying out and asking for it, he is going to do it for us. So that was -- when the Lord said to June “It is time,” that is what he was talking about. It is time to be caught up to righteousness.

I would like to remind you -- I think some of you must have heard this testimony several years ago. When the ministry first started, there was someone living here -- a young lady was living here with me that does not come to the ministry anymore, and we had a very supernatural experience one night. I received a phone call around 1 o’clock in the morning. Someone who was a part of the ministry was very ill. I do not even remember what was wrong with them, but they were very ill. They called for prayer, and apparently the Lord wanted everyone in on it who could be in on it, and Nanc- -- oh, I did not mean to say her name. The lady who was -- well, I am not saying anything bad about her.

Nancy, she was sleeping in that little bedroom there, and her testimony is that the whole light filled up -- the whole room filled up with light. And she opened her eyes, and she saw me standing at the foot of her bed. And she thought that I had walked into the room and turned the light switch on, but it was not me. I was not in here [sic]. I would have never done that. Anyway, I would have knocked, you know. She saw -- thought I had walked into her room and turned the light switch on, and I was standing at the foot of her bed, and I said, “Wake up. Wake up. You are needed. Come on. Hurry up. Get outside.”

And she walked out into the hall just at the moment of crisis, and then there was four of us on the telephone -- two over here and at least one or two on the phone -- praying, and my counsel was, if you are not better really fast, head for the hospital. You know, you pray your prayer, and then you do not wait and see whether you are going to die or not, you know.

So she was down the steps. You know, she lived around the corner from me, and I was on the -- we were on the phone with her husband actually. She was down her ste- -- down the steps at the door headed for the hospital because he had to stay home with the kids, and the prayer, it just worked. She -- it just turned her around. I cannot remember what was wrong with her, but she came back up the steps, and she was OK.

But the reason I am telling you this testimony now is because it fits in with visitations of the Lord. When I told her that I was not in her bedroom and that I had not turned the electric light on, she just stood there with her mouth open. I said, no, that was not me. I was not in your bedroom turning on the electric light. She said the whole room lit up like it was broad daylight.

OK. So let me remind you again that Christianity is a spiritual experience. We have had 2,000 years of Christianity to date that has not been particularly spiritual, certainly since the apostles passed out of the earth system. We have had 2,000 years of carnal religion that has disappointed many people and turned many people away from the faith and has given fuel to many people whose hearts are anti-Christ to mock and despise the Lord Jesus Christ and his message when they see what is in the earth today calling themselves Christians, a bunch of religious people thinking that they have arrived.

And I am here today to tell you that this is not it, that the true Christian is a person who is deeply spiritual and anointed with spiritual power that comes from the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, and the reason the church was able to get into the condition that it is in today is that the man Jesus of Nazareth, who was Christ, gave up his existence, his life as Jesus of Nazareth. He permitted himself to be crucified, and he will never appear on this earth again as Jesus of Nazareth. He is already appearing as the glorified man which was raised from the dead, which is much greater than a single human Jesus of Nazareth.

If you can hear this, let me give you a parable, it is the same thing as saying that little 1-year-old baby boy no longer looks like that little 1-year-old baby boy, but he is a 25-year-old Alexander the Great, conqueror, one of the -- possibly the greatest military leaders ever known to man. And if you put Alexander the Great next to this little baby boy, if someone did not tell you that this is what he turned into, you would never know that that little baby boy was -- or that Alexander the Great is the same man as that little baby boy. That is what I am talking about, OK.

So Jesus gave up that life as that little baby boy, and he said if a corn of wheat fall into the ground, it will bring forth a great harvest. He let himself die to that existence so that he could be formed into a spirit which was in a form that could f- -- that could seed himself upon all of humanity, and it is his intention to appear in the spiritual greatness that he appeared in, in the man Jesus, in all of humanity.

But he has been in utero. He has been under the ground. You have not been able to see him except for a few little sprigs for 2,000 years. Why? If you remember the message last Sunday, because of the 1:1,000 reconciliation ratio. What is one day to the Lord is 1,000 years to men. So it has taken that seed 2,000 years to come forth as a fully mature plant. And that is -- even has not happened yet, but we believe it is going to happen at any moment.

So those whose hearts cannot believe have done violence to the message of the Scripture, saying it is not true or it is weak; it has no power, but that is not true. We are just waiting for that cake to come out of oven. It has taken 2,000 years for that which died to appear in a form that is going to fulfill every promise in this Bible. And Paul clearly stated -- all you Pharisees, he clearly stated -- read the book -- that which you sow is not what you reap, that you sow a seed and when the plant comes forth it looks nothing at all like the seed. Did he not say it? He said it, right, in 1 Corinthians. Where was it, 45? He said it. Do not be stupid -- Paul said it. “Do not be stupid, you fool. What you put in the ground is not anything at all like the tree that comes forth.” So it has taken 2,000 years, and the whole creation is waiting on tiptoe to see this full-grown spiritual warrior that is going to change the lives of men and to change this whole humanity and change the face of this whole world and this whole planet. That is what we are waiting for, and it is about to happen any moment.

So to be Christian is to be spiritual, to be deeply spiritual, to have spiritual power, but power that is coming out of righteousness, not out of sin or evil. So as the church begins to move into many spiritual experiences, we find many Christians who are not spiritual, not recognizing that this is the purpose of God and fighting against what the Lord is doing, but to be Christian is to be spiritual. It is to travel in the spirit. It is to have mind communication. It is to have spiritual warfare with the carnal minds of men all around you. It is to -- it is to -- it is to -- it is to have spiritual knowledge and revelation, and everything that the workers of witchcraft are doing in this hour, but to do it in a much greater degree that produces life and righteousness. So this is what we are waiting for. We are to be spiritual, and these spiritual experiences will be occurring more and more, and they are going to be happening first to people who are spiritual.

Now -- so I was talking to June about this, this morning. Some people are just born with a spiritual potential developed in them. It is just inherited. Some people are not. So if you are born with a spiritual potential and God is calling you into the kingdom, you will start to have these spiritual experiences before the other group because the other group has to first have their spiritual potential developed in them.

And I am encouraging you with every strength I have, whoever is hearing this message, to resist envy at all costs. If you look to your left and you look to your right, and you see someone who has come into the kingdom after you, and you see them having spiritual experiences before you or moving on in God before you, I encourage you with all my strength to resist envy and just pray and tell the Lord that you want it too. He is able to give it to you, but He -- you may have to wait for it.

And you may have to deal with this fact that God is not a god that teaches line upon line and precept upon precept, and I know that is what they tell you in the church, but they are misquoting the Scripture. Isaiah did not mean that, OK, when Isaiah talks about line upon -- studying the Scriptures line upon line and precept upon precept and going through it line one first and line two second and line three third. The Lord is not restricted to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. If he wants to make 10 number one, he can do it. He has the right to do it. He has the authority to do it, and he has the power to do it, and you cannot shake your fist at the Lord and say, “I was here first. How come you have given someone authority ahead of me that came in after me?” And you are spinning your wheels, and the Lord is going to stop everything to correct you because your thinking is wrong, and you are just going to hold back your own progress in God.

So if you see people being raised up ahead of you, just humble yourself and say that you would like it too. There is room for everybody in the kingdom, but if you are going to yield to envy or competition or any such thing, you are just working against yourself. We are entering into an age of miracles. We are entering into an age of spirituality, so keep your eyes on yourself. Get your eyes off of your brother -- unless you are following someone as you follow Christ, get your eyes off of your brother and just work on your own spiritual development. He will get you there. He will get you there.

OK. Joseph [SP] had a dream. Would you like to share your dream with us? Changed your mind? OK.

OK, I would like to -- well, I had a dream last night. I had a dream last night. I did not remember it until I headed for the car today, and it was sort of a weird dream. But what I do remember is that I was driving through the city, and I was driving along a road that I had driven along many times, but all of a sudden -- it was, like, an elevated road, and, all of a sudden, the road was not there anymore, and my car went hurtling down. I got out of the car somehow, -- excuse me -- but I watched it crash below. And when it -- when it hit down there, there were, like, two other cars that collided with it, and I -- my car -- it was my little blue car -- was a driver-less car, and it was just getting all wrecked up.

And I wanted to go down to see what happened to it, and it was, like, this big cliff. I tried to jump down, and I know that in the past it was, like -- you know how, like, sometimes you climb down rocks, and you have a rock that you could step on, and it is up and down? But I looked, and there was absolutely no stepping stones. It had become a -- what do they call it? -- a sheer cliff? There is a word. I just cannot think of it. It was just straight down, and I could not -- I could not make it. So I had to go around another way to get down there, and when I got down to look at my poor car, it -- they -- it had been towed away already. There was nothing left of it at all, and I remember saying to myself, well, I guess I will have to walk. I have walked before, and I will walk again.

So what this probably means is that old things are passing away, and if you cannot function in the -- in the new order, you are not going to function. What am I talking about? Old ways of getting things done are not going to be available to the world, but certainly to the church, anymore. See, God has been sounding the trumpet. Actually, for years now he has been sounding the trumpet, and what is the trumpet? What is a trumpet?

[INAUDIBLE]

It is a message. It is -- in the trump- -- it is a message. He has been speaking through preachers for a long time now. He has been saying, get your sea legs. OK? Get your spirit legs going because if you do not start learning how to get your needs met through godly, spiritual methods, you are going to be left with no tools at all to get your needs met.

Let me give you a parable, and it is as if to say, you have an ability to work and earn money to pay your rent and buy your food. You have job skills, OK. Either you have mental skills; you have physical skills. You know there are things that you could do that you could earn money for, and then, all of a sudden, every job that you are qualified for no longer exists. Now, either you are going to -- either you are going to learn a new way to earn your bread, or you are going to starve to death.

The world is entering into a new government. There is a change of the guard. A new government is coming in, and the rules that apply to this present world do not apply in the new world, and there are things to learn to function in the new world. Jesus said, “You must become like a little child.” You have to start learning everything all over again. You have to learn the language of the spirit. God is speaking to many of us in this hour in his language, and we have not the vaguest idea of what he is talking about. That is a real problem. If the Lord says to you, “Danger, danger, danger! Get up and run out of the building! It is about to collapse,” and you say, “Oh, how nice of you to talk to me, Lord,” and you cannot understand a word that he is saying.

Yeah. There is one right next to [?me?you?]. Please, take the microphone.

Well, my dreams were pretty similar, so I might as well share [INAUDIBLE].

Oh, OK.

[INAUDIBLE] I started out jumping across the -- physically jumping across the 52nd Street Bridge in New York. And chunks of the bridge were starting to fall, and each step I took at the edge of the -- of the bridge, I jumped to the next piece, and I would make it safely, and I would jump to the next piece. But underneath the bridge, I could see tugboats and the water. I kept saying, oh, I do not want to fall down there, and I kept jumping. When I finally got across into Manhattan, I go, phew! And I woke up. It was a very short dream, but it seemed real at the time.

Well --

[INAUDIBLE] [?seem like a good dream?] [INAUDIBLE]

Well, that is a good dream because what it says to you is that you made it, OK.

I did something right.

Yeah.

[INAUDIBLE]

You made it to safe land, OK. You want to say something?

Sheila, I guess, maybe I am wrong, but, in your dream, I thought also it interpreted that the car was a carnal transportation and that, when it went over the cliff -- and you were standing, but you looked down, and there was two other cars, that it was almost like the carnal minds were crushed and that you were walking, like, in full stature. That is [?what it?] --

Oh, praise God.

[INAUDIBLE]

Can I share part of the dream I had [CROSSTALK]

Sure.

I remember some of it, not all of it. I just dreamed that I had no car, and I had to go across town, and this town is not familiar to me, in the dream, and they were -- some people were telling me, oh, it is going to take you forever to walk and everything, and they did not -- and some of them had bikes. People had bikes on [?the side?]. I remember there was a school on the side too. I do not know what the school was, but, all of a sudden, I just lifted up my legs and sat in the air and flew, and everywhere I went, I could just fly. All I would do is just lift up my legs like that and just sit in the air and fly. It was the greatest thing, and I was going down this hill, and, like, there was all these beautiful flowers on the side, [?and it is like?] -- I was like, wow, am I going to just do this exactly [UNINTELLIGIBLE] it was like I was staying the exact amount above the ground all the way, just like as if a car was going down the hill. I was going down the hill. There was -- like, I was, like, 5 feet off the ground, just flying.

Like on a magic carpet, huh?

Yeah.

That is what it seems like.

I would just sit in the air --

[CROSSTALK]

-- and all we would do is just lift up my legs, like you preached about, you know, when they -- you use your wings, you -- the birds cut off their legs. Well, I did not have any wings, but I just sat in the air and just --

[CROSSTALK]

Yeah, I am sure. So somebody was like, oh, I -- you know, there was a lot of unbelief towards me, and somebody came behind me. I was on the sidewalk, and somebody came behind me on a bike, and it was somebody that I know, but I do not want to put his name on the message, but it is somebody that is not in this ministry or anything, somebody I used to work with. And he was behind me, and he was like -- I go, oh, hi. And I spoke his name, and that made me come down to the ground, and there was a lot of unbelief.

From the other person?

From the other people, yeah. Then I saw this old family that I used to be really good friends with, and we had spiritual experiences with them. The man of the family was not so spiritual, and the son was very spiritual but went to a church where the minister died. And I saw him in the dream, and he was talking about how he was having such a hard time with his kids and how -- and just ending up just like his dad [?is, like?], worries and just family, kind of, problems. I was like, [?oh, man?] [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. I looked at him. I was like, wow, he is even starting to look like his dad, and he is like, wow, he is just like his dad, you know, where you are just, sort of, like, a family man but, kind of, worried about his family. He was telling me it was not going that great and everything, and I do not know how this relates to my life or to now, but the person, literally -- his minister, literally, did die in the natural not too long ago, and I do not know how he got in the dream. Maybe that is him; maybe he is really having that experience. But I do not know why he came in the dream, and I was like, wow, he is like his dad, and he was the spiritual [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- one that was going towards spiritual things, and he was such a spiritual person, you know, and it is like he was always happy, and his face was always lit up with the Lord, and he was always serious for God, you know. And this was what was happening, he is all concerned about his children, and he w- -- times were tough, and he was telling me times were tough, and I was like, oh, wow, you know. And we were sitting on a bench in the middle of the street, out in the streets somewhere in this town, sitting on a bench. He was telling me -- he was like, it was not even [?in a house?] somewhere, so I do not even know. Maybe he was even homeless or something because they were all sitting on a bench. I do not know, but I am not sure what that part means.

OK. Is he the man that is part of that family, where the mother used to minister to you? Is that who you are talking about?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, OK. What this says to me is that there is a company of people in the earth, and this is very scriptural, that are serving God to the best that they know how, and they are spiritual under the imputed anointing. There is some spirituality under the anointing, the imputed anointing. What that means is -- we talked about it earlier, the anointing whereby God says, I understand that you are seeking righteousness, therefore -- OK, just hold a second. Therefore I will treat you like you are righteous just for a period, OK, a period of grace until you get yourself cleaned up. So we have a whole company of people out in the church world who have God's grace on them in the form of prophecy and tongues and knowledge and [?there are?] -- and the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, OK. But somehow they did not get the revelation that that is only for a season, and you have to use that time to enter into the true spiritual nature of Christ because that spirituality that you have, which is being loaned to you, is only for a season, and it is about to be withdrawn.

So what your dream says to me is that it was withdrawn. Their house was taken. That manifestation, that outpouring, that ministry of Christ is being removed from the earth. Brethren, either you start moving into being truly spiritual in Christ, or you are going to lose everything you have. And the prob- -- spiritual, every spiritual thing you have, and the problem with this is that moving into true spirituality in Christ involves the exposure and the judgment of your sins, and nobody wants that. To the carnal mind, that is terrible, and it is painful having your sp- -- your sins exposed, being told, you know, what you did, it just was not right, and you really have to go and apologize, and you really have to admit that even though there were extenuating circumstances, it was not right. This is painful. It is like having your heart cut out of you, and nobody wants it.

So there is a big problem with the church moving in from the borrowed righteousness to the true righteousness, and there are many, your dream is telling me, and it is scriptural, that will not enter into the true righteousness and therefore not have the true righteousness when the books are due. You borrow books from a library; there is a time they have to be sent back. God is calling back the lent righteousness; he is calling --

[CROSSTALK]

-- it back. And they are going to find themselves without a house, without a cover because they did not use that time to build the true righteousness in themselves. I think Joseph had his hand up first.

[INAUDIBLE].

OK.

Go ahead.

Well, no, let us keep it in order. Go ahead.

I just had a very simple question. The other night I was sitting at the kitchen table [UNINTELLIGIBLE], and I was seeing a lot about this Bosnian Serb war, and it is just [INAUDIBLE] like there is so many people that -- even myself at one time. A lot of good things would happen to me, and I would always [INAUDIBLE] that is just the way it was supposed [INAUDIBLE] that is the way it happened, but I always wondered why -- like, I think there was a reason. I always I said I met her to bring me into some type of benefit. There is certain things in my life which just, you know, happened too fast. Anyhow, but I caught onto some type of spiritual [CROSSTALK] I caught onto it. There is so many others who have access to television to learn about Christ, and there are other people who live right next door to Christians, and there are other people who live right next door to churches in this world who have the ability and the knowhow to go and look for it, but yet they will not. They will not go and ask questions, but then they always want to know, well, why does bad things happen to me? But, yet, when something good happens -- and for any in AA here, oh, thank you, Jesus. [INAUDIBLE] these people are crazy. They walk out the door; they do not recognize it. But, yet, when something good happens, they thank him upstairs. I do not get it. Why -- my question is why are people still born? All these things happening in the world, and yet some people -- I do not know. [INAUDIBLE] and see where they are at, spiritually, but if they do not -- I do not know. If they do not believe totally, I guess, it does not really matter [CROSSTALK]

Well, everybody i- --

Why are they still born? That is [CROSSTALK]

Because everybody is not able to see. It is just like some people are born blind, and there is no manmade operation that could change them. They are just born blind. Spiritual sight is something that is a gift from God, and in this hour, everybody does not have it. Celia, June and I were talking about this at breakfast. Getting saved out of this world of Hell, getting delivered -- because we are in Hell now. We have got to get out of here. This is a really bad place, you know, OK. Getting out of here is so hard, the Scripture says that the righteous scarcely be saved, so how is it possible for a sinner to be saved? It is so hard getting out of Hell that God -- the -- God has a plan, that the way that he is doing it is that he is looking across humanity, and he is picking out the spirit­- - -- now -- spiritual now. You could be physically weak -- the spiritually strongest people that are in humanity, and he is letting terrible trials come on them, and he is giving them spiritual sight, and he is raising them up to get them out because he knows that they are tough enough to take it, and it is terrible for those who are tough enough to take it. They have very hard lives, but he is getting them out.

And now we are waiting for this event. I believe it is going to be one man, and then he is going to raise up two, and then each of those three are going to grab a hold of people, and a lot of people are going to start coming up. But it is so hard that it is going to be just a -- you know, a few to start with, and then each one is going to be sent to a handful of people. And then when they stand up, each one is going to be sent to a handful of people. We are going to be dragging people up by their bootstraps because people cannot climb out of this place. That is how hard it is.

So, to answer your question, most people are not given sight in this hour. It is just a small group that the Lord is working with the -- like the Green Berets, to get them really trained up to send them back to get the large majority of people out. If God does not open your eyes, you cannot see. That is the bottom line. In this hour, it is not for everybody. It will be for everybody, and it is not that God loves some more than others. It is that he is getting the marines out first so that he can save the whole company of people. Did I answer your question?

Yes and no.

OK, Rita.

I was going to ask a few more questions about that dream. It looked like that [INAUDIBLE] lost their spirituality and that their whole existence became carnal, and they just were [?centered in?] towards family and not just -- you can have a family, but this was like they were all --

Carnal?

-- enveloped in worries somehow, which is carnal, you know. But the thing I was going to ask was this person that was on the bike, that was behind me when I was flying, and I turned around, and I said, oh, hi. And I ended up -- as soon as I said hi to that person that was on the bike behind me, my feet landed on the ground again, and I was going slow, and they passed me up on the bike. And this person -- I do not know why the Lord put them in the dream, you know. And as [?I talk?] -- I -- they were a coworker a long time ago, and I know that I just talked to them recently, and they were just telling me their dreams [?is bikes?], to be an actor and just carnal things [INAUDIBLE] they said, oh, that is my dream till I die. I do not know if I will ever make it, but that is my dream, you know. They are in karate, and they want to be an actor, and they want to do it -- karate on the screen and everything. Like, it is like a carnal dream, right, so why would the Lord put that [?in?] -- does that have anything to do with it [?maybe?]?

First of all, I would like to comment on the first part of what you said, that that family appeared to be very carnal. That is very scriptural.

[CROSSTALK]

Jesus said he gave out talents, and everybody that used their talent and received an increase went on with God, but there was one man who buried that spiritual strength underneath their carnal mind and did not use it. And what happened to that person?

[?He died?].

They lost what they had.

They lost what they had.

They lost what they had.

And on top of that, they went into torment [CROSSTALK]

Right. So your dream is -- you know, this is a hard word, but the truth of the matter is God has got everything under control, and he is righteous. Everybody -- he is righteous, OK, and everybody had an opportunity to move into the true spirituality, and some did not. I am not thrilled to see people going into torment, but I know that God is righteous. I will not call God unrighteous because I know that that would be pride in me. So no matter how bad it looks, he is righteous, and somehow -- I do not want to judge the man unless God shows it to me.

But [?that?] -- this is the way it is happening: It is intensely difficult to get out of Hell, and very few will make it, but those few are coming back fully equipped with unlimited spiritual power to get the others back. So this family that did not make it, it is scriptural that there is going to be families that do not make it, OK, but there is still hope for them in that those that make it are being sent back, but I cannot lie to you, you know. While we are waiting for those who make it to come back, there are going to be plenty of people that just pass out of this world system without making it, and that is the bottom line. That is the way it is.

But to answer the second part --

[CROSSTALK]

Yeah.

-- say something about that first part.

Yeah.

It -- the man does not represent the whole family, does he? Because the women [INAUDIBLE] spiritual and --

In your dream or in reality?

Reality they were, but the women were not even in the dream. It was just the men.

Yeah. I would say to you that the reason the men were in the dream is that this is a spiritual dream, and God showed you the physical males in the family, but he is really talking about the spiritual males in the family. So you have to -- you know, you have to get spiritual.

[CROSSTALK]

He showed you the son, but he is talking -- he showed you the physical son, but he is talking about the spiritual males, which were some of the women in the family.

Yeah.

So it is really about them. It is really about the spiritual males in the family.

The spirit- -- the -- this particular -- the son was spiritual. That is why I thought it was something particular about him and -- because he was spiritual, plus he even moved away from the family to seek something spiritual, and he was spiritual, and -- but his father was not, and the dream was obviously saying to me that he is ending up like his father, and there is worries about the family. [?And there is?] -- and he is [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- he was always like -- he was, like, real -- he looked really young, and his -- he was, like -- he had, like, this fresh look like he was, like, always on fire for Jesus and just not a worry in the world [CROSSTALK]

So re- -- I really feel this is going on too long. Do you have a question? What is your question?

So my question is, is he -- what was my question?

OK. I thought I had answered it. Maybe I did not, but I thought that what your question was --

[CROSSTALK]

-- was this dream specifically about this man or about the whole f- -- it is just going on too long [CROSSTALK] [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

OK, I am going to tell you again what God gave me, OK, that the reason you saw physical men in the dreams was that that was God's way of talking about the spiritual males, OK. And the fact that they are becoming like their father means that the people that are under the imputed anointing, who is their father?

[INAUDIBLE]

No, their father is the devil.

They have the anointing [INAUDIBLE]

But he is not their father; their father is the devil. Jesus said to the Pharisees, your father is the devil, OK. So o- -- I can only give you what is in my heart, OK. This may not be the true interpretation, but I can only give you what is in my heart, and what is in my heart is that this family n- -- that this is dream is not just about this family or -- though it may be about this family, but it also typifies a whole category of people who had the imputed anointing. And when the sons of God manifest, that they will not go forward, but that they will go backwards and become like their father, and the reason they will become like their father is that the Holy Spirit does not build character. [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [INAUDIBLE]

Well, let me make that a little clearer. The Holy Spirit does not build the character which is in Christ. The Holy Spirit does have the authority to build the character, which is available to fallen men, and we know that, down here in Hell, some fallen men do have character. We have heroes; we have leaders, government leaders that have led their people out of poverty and out of moral conditions that were destroying the nation; we have some people in Hell that have a higher character and a higher morality and a higher ethical nature than others. But the problem with that is that, with fallen man, he is either moral or ethical or immoral and unethical depending largely on external circumstances.

What do I mean? A man that is raised under a moral, ethical, Christian environment, under a family, under an authority figure that implants these characteristics in him, will be ethical and more. But s- -- even psychiatric and psychological studies have shown that the most moral and ethical people, when pressure is applied to them, when torture is applied to them, when mind control is applied to them, when they lose their basic needs, when they do not have food to eat, when they are subject to the elements, that the moral character of that man will deteriorate. And under the most severe circumstances, he can be cast down to a condition of a brute beast.

There is a book, a piece of literature, that exemplifies this. It is called "The Lord of the Flies," which is a story about a group of young boys who are marooned on a desert island, and there have been many stories in literature. It was proven in Hitler's Germany, how people cast aside, even against their own will, their own morality and ethics when their basic human needs for preservation are not being met. But whi- -- the character which is built in Christ does not deteriorate, brethren, even when you are strung up on the cross and crucified for something that you did not do.

So the Holy Spirit can build human character in a man, a character which is built up and which can fall again, but the Holy Spirit cannot build the nature of Christ, brethren, which is an unshakable foundation that is so powerful that, when the m- -- our human needs or the human needs of the man in whom that foundation is existing, when those human needs are not met, the character does not crumble but rises up in the power of the Father and meets the need of the man. Character which is in Christ has the exact opposite reaction to stress and deprivation to character which is built in the fallen man, whether that character is built by the Holy Spirit or by ethical, moral teaching which is found down here in many sources in Hell. There are many Christians who teach moral, ethical teaching, and they are not Christians, and that character can rise or fall. But the character which is in Christ, brethren, the character which is in Christ abideth forever. [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

The -- that this family [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- that this dream is not just about this family, or it -- though it may be about this family, but it also typifies a whole category of people who had the imputed anointing, and when the sons of God manifest, that they will not go forward but that they will go backwards and become like their father. And the reason they will become like their father is that the Holy Spirit does not build character; it just gives gifts, and that when the sons of God appear, the Holy Spirit is going to be withdrawn. And if you are looking for Christ, you have to go to the sons now, so as soon as the Holy Spirit lifts off of them, their true nature will appear again. They are going to be just like their father, and that is all that I have for you as far as the interpretation of the dream goes.

You see, let me just put it this way, and then I really feel I have to move on. I will say one more thing about it, that when the nature of Christ is built into you and you become holy as your Father is holy -- and this involves having your -- there is no way you are getting there without having your sins exposed, OK. We all know that here. It become- -- you become righteous, but the people that have the Holy Spirit, what happens is that the Holy Spirit comes in and presses down their unrighteousness and makes them appear righteous in many ways. But it is really just hiding the truth; it is a mask. So when the Holy Spirit is removed, their true nature comes up again. They are sons of the devil, and they become like their father.

[CROSSTALK] [INAUDIBLE] was getting old in, like, the life of God that [?seemed to be?] [INAUDIBLE]

And that is exactly -- I hope you can hear it. That is exactly what I am saying

[CROSSTALK]

And that is exactly what this Scripture says. As a matter of fact --

[CROSSTALK]

-- what you just said, that term that you just used, that he was getting old is very --

[CROSSTALK]

-- scriptural. Yeah. That which is old passes away --

[CROSSTALK]

-- so that that which is new can be established.

[INAUDIBLE]

Well, that is that old order deliverance. And, also, let me define old and new for you, OK. When the new move of God becomes manifest in the earth, that which was the move of God becomes old and begins to pass away. So you had a very scriptural dream, and the chances are excellent that, if that is the family God used, that it is going to be happening to them. I am sorry, but I did not give you the dream, but it also talks about that whole company of people that fit in that category, so I hope that I answered your dream -- I answered your question.

[CROSSTALK] explain that other [?part?] [CROSSTALK]

Yeah. That -- the Scripture --

[?That is not the church?]. That is the world [INAUDIBLE] in the world.

Right. And the Scripture that comes to me about that is Lot's wife looking back, so -- and for those of us that do not know, Lot and his family were being saved from Sodom before God burnt it up, and his wife looked back, and she died.

[CROSSTALK]

OK.

I do not understand what that means.

It means that you were flying, OK, and someone in the world who has his eyes on worldly pursuits called you, not in the dream. He just said hello, but, symbolically, he called your attention to worldly things, and you looked back, and you fell down.

Oh.

Just like Peter fell into the water when he -- Jesus said, come on, walk on the water, and Peter fell into the water when he looked down. So I would not worry about it, you know, but I would say that there is a company of people that will look back, but it does not mean that it is permanent. But if you want a cover -- I always cover my back. If I were you, I would say, Lord, if I am in any danger of looking back, of being seduced into looking back by some worldly person, I repent in advance, and please keep me from it. That is -- I would pray that prayer. I do not take any chances, Rita. I am going up. I am going. If I do not go up, it is not going to be because of anything that I did not do, OK. If God does not -- chooses not to take me, there is nothing I can do about it, but I cover my tail.

Yeah.

OK. So I definitely would pray that prayer. Yeah?

I just think I have, from the Lord, a couple of more things on the dream. It showed a park, and the park would be a pace -- a place to rest, but it did not just show the park bench. He was sitting on it, so he was sitting.

It was not a park. It was [CROSSTALK]

You said a park bench.

No, I said a bench out in the to- -- you know, [?towns have benches?].

Oh, OK. All right, he is sitting. He was not standing, so that was the other thing against the church world.

Yeah, OK.

Your dream reminded me that I also had a dream last night, and it was about a mutual friend of ours.

Hmm?

And I do not know whether to explain her character, you know, her personality or what she is --

Witchcraft.

-- going through.

OK. She is loaded with witchcraft and rebellion against God, OK.

Oh, OK. She is loaded with witchcraft and rebellion and does not want to hear this word, and so this person had come to my home in a van and was beeping like mad out front, and I came out. And she was coming to talk to me and felt that I was not coming out right away, and so she was beeping this horn and talking to some neighbor. Where is she? When is she coming out? So I came right out, and, suddenly, she started up with the van and turned it around, facing -- going out of the block. And as I looked toward her, she suddenly was in a car now, and she was backing up, and she was backing up into all these things that were in front of my house. And I s- -- and I was yelling, look out for this thing and for that thing, and she kept backing, and she was furious that this -- that she could not back this car straight. She had no control over it; it seemed to go where it wanted to go, and it ba- -- it kept backing up into y- -- just missing all of these, like, things that were in the way, you know, on the lawn. And so she wound up backing around into a semicircle, and that was all the dream that I had.

Well, I think the Lord is speaking very clearly. What I hear in that is that there will be a company that is going to go backwards. The Scripture is very clear. The new age is upon us. The kingdom age is already here, but it is still invisible, and as it becomes more and more visible, some will be entering. We will be leaving the church age -- we are in the church age right now -- and going into the kingdom age, and others will not enter in. They will slide back, and this lady, I am sorry to say, is the symbol that God has used to describe a whole company of people that will slide back. But, you see, you cannot stand still; either you go forward or you go backwards. There is no standing still. There is continuous movement, just like we g- -- you know, we continue to go on with our life. Only, in this world, there is no going backwards. Everything -- in the world of time, everything goes forward, but nobody stands still. Spiritually speaking, you can go either forwards, or you can go backwards, and I am sorry that your friend symbolizes the group of people who will go backwards, but I did not give you the dream. The Lord gave you the dream. I am innocent.

I do want to say one more thing to you, that I think that second part of your dream, where you turned around and looked at the person on the bicycle, I feel to tell you that it is really a warning, that you know that you have had those tendencies in the past, to be diverted by worldly things. It is something that you have to watch out for. You know that, and I really see that as a prophetic word to you. Be careful, that such a temptation is coming, that something will catch your eye, you know, whatever it is of the world that catches your eye, whatever kind of thing that is. Be careful; keep your eyes on the kingdom.

I think I might know what it is.

Yeah?

Mm-hmm.

OK.

I said I think -- I thought I got a witness as to what it is [?because we joked?] about that sort of thing.

Yeah. I have a witness to you, but it is private, so I will not say anything now. But that is what is in my heart: Keep your eyes on Jesus. Remember Gideon's band, you know. God took the ones who never took their eyes off the enemy, OK. You have to know what is going on.

And it has to do -- [?when?] that man said acting and everything, it is something [CROSSTALK]

Yeah.

-- right on it [CROSSTALK]

Yeah.

-- something --

Acting, in my dreams, is -- always typifies soulish people. We are actors. How are we actors? Because what we do in this world is -- we are only acting out what our spiritual [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- our spiritual husband is thinking. Whoever the ruling spirit is in us is our spiritual husband, and we just do what he tells us to do. That is why our deeds are evil, because our husband in this hour is evil. But when our husband is Christ, every deed we do will be righteous, so the m- -- in this w- -- in this hour, Christ is trying to behead our carnal mind from us so that he can be our husband so that, without trying, without a religious work, everything we do will be righteous, and then we will stop dying.

Humanity dies, human beings die because we do evil deeds, and death is a judgment from God for doing evil. And the reason we do evil deeds is because our spiritual husband, which is our mind, OK -- our -- we are a soul men married to a mind. Because our mind is evil and we obey our husband. He is evil, and we do evil, and we die. And in this hour, we are in the midst of a cataclysmic [?solar?] war in which the Lord Jesus Christ is removing our present mind. We are in the midst of spiritual surgery. He is removing our existing mind who is a wicked husband, which is responsible for the death of humanity, and the Lord Jesus Christ fully intends to marry us be our h- -- our mi- -- our husband, which is our mind. And he being righteous, we too shall be righteous, and we shall stop dying, and we shall be without sin with no effort whatsoever. It will be our nature to do righteousness, and we shall forever be with the Lord. Hallelujah. That sounds good to me, OK.

Did I answer everybody's questions on this area?

Can you go back to what you just said, the last part of your [INAUDIBLE]

About marriage to the mind?

Yeah, because there was something I wanted to ask you. What about the ones that got one foot in and one foot out?

We --

Because [INAUDIBLE]

June, would you do me a favor and shut that coffee off? Just shut it off.

I did.

Oh, you shut it off? OK.

Like, they pretend that they know who Christ is, and they pretend that they are doing [?it?] right, and they are living right, and they are doing everything right. I hope [INAUDIBLE], but yet -- I do not know how to explain it, this feeling I got, but it is hard to [?explain?].

Well, in this hour, some people have two minds. They have the carnal mind that --

[CROSSTALK]

Well, all of humanity is. You know, we were all born with a carnal mind because our ancestors died, and the carnal mind married humanity. And we in- -- when we are born, we have the same mind that our father had. Your father has --

[CROSSTALK] [?perpetrators of Christ?] [INAUDIBLE]

Well, I do not know what you mean perpetrators of Christ, but we are all sinners because our mind is evil because our original ancestor, Adam, fell. But Christ is coming to save us from our inheritance. He is coming to save us from all of the evil that we have inherited from past generations. He is going to wipe all of that heredity out.

So then there is no sin that he will not forgive us for?

We- --

There are some that he will not.

Every -- the whole creation is forgiven, but what is happening is that it is going to take a period of time to cleanse. If you can try and think of humanity as not each individual person, but the spiritual root in us. We are spirit. This body is just a shell, OK, so that which is underneath us, our spirit, which goes back to God when this body dies, the whole creation shall be saved and made -- the whole creation -- [?that is?] terrible -- shall be saved and made righteous, OK.

So when the Lord comes and it -- as the -- when the times comes, and it is already starting, that he is going to remove this mind of death, which is killing us, it is going to take, I personally believe, about 1,500 years. So before the job is completed, that every individual human being gets the mind of Christ, there are going to be some people who -- it is not going to be their turn, but their body is going to die, and they are going to pass out of this world, but their spirit will go on to the Father, and eventually every human being on the earth will get married to Christ and will live forever.

OK. Thanks for sharing. I have a -- I had a dream last week. I meant to tell you this last week. It just dawned on me because I just [?thought of it?]. I had a dream that I was on a beach with a young Spanish -- she was about 6 years, 7 years old, and she and I were throwing shells in the water, and she said, "Joseph, what would the world be like without emotional or physical pain?" And then I just picked her up by her hand, and we walked up and down the beach, and I do not know what I was saying to her, but we just walked, and the sun was setting, and it was a nice dream. But what does that mean?

[INAUDIBLE]

Why would a little girl ask me that? Because we [CROSSTALK]

We are c- -- it is going to be wonderful. It is going to be without pain because all of the pain that man suffers is in our emotions, OK, and in our flesh. This is the weakness of fallen man, is that we are subject to Satan in our emotions and in our bodies, and this is what we are being saved from, OK. Now if it was you in the dream, that is a really nice dream because what it says to me is that God was showing you yourself as a teacher, which is another witness to -- as to what you have heard in this ministry, that you are called to be a preacher. Now you do not have to believe it, but that is how I see your dream, OK, that you were teaching this next generation of people. Do you remember what I said? God is saving a few, the strong ones, and then he is sending them back to get the others out, and you, apparently, seem to be called to be one of the first to be delivered out of this death of this world system. You have a spiritual strength in you that the Lord is laying hold of, and he wants to train you up and clean you up and send you back to get out the next level of people, and that is what that dream would mean. And --

What typifies a little girl? [CROSSTALK]

She is the next level of people that you are going back to get out. She is younger than you are --

[CROSSTALK]

-- a younger sister. So God is going to clean you up, spiritually. We are all getting cleaned up, and we are going to be caught up in righteous and spiritual power, and spiritual weapons are about to be given to us, and we are being sent back to get the next group of people out. And that -- and the way we get them out -- one of the ways we get them out is by teaching them. They are going to come out with understanding.

[INAUDIBLE]

It is going to be heaven. You see, this is a mystery that the church does not seem to know much about it, but the world knows a lot about it. I do not like this new program, "Star Trek: The Next Generation." I never watch it, but I saw it advertised on the TV, that they were having an episode about mind control, and I watched the whole thing. I watched the whole hour program, and this i- -- the whole world knows about this. Listen, the whole starship, with thousands of people on the starship, was taken over by mind control.

[INAUDIBLE]

OK. Was taken over by mind control. The only one that was not affected by the mind control was Data, the robot. Why? Because mind control operates in your emotions, and it did not say it on this program, but also, physically, Satan controls humanity through physical and emotional pain. We have a whole message on it. It is called the -- what did I call it, the pleasure, pain principle? We have a whole message on it, OK. When you are naïve, Satan tries to get you by offering you pleasure. It feels good. You stick the needle in your arm. He will get you to do that, feels good to do whatever you are doing. Satan will get you to o- -- disobey God by giving you pleasure.

As you begin to mature into Christ, he cannot get you with pleasure anymore because you are finding out that that pleasure has strings attached to it. It may feel good when you are high, but when you come down out of the high, it is not so good. You are finding out that your relationships are ruined, that you lost your job, that you wrecked your house or whatever else you did. So that pleasure that Satan gives you has strings attached to it, so somewhere in your life, you start to resist taking this pleasure because you do not want to pay the price anymore. Well, when you get to that point, Satan starts to control you with --

Pain.

-- pain. He says -- at the beginning, he says I will give you candy if you do what I tell you. When that does not work, he says, if you do not do what I tell you, I will give you pain. That is the truth of this world. We are all in a spiritual jail, and the chief honcho jailer is Satan, and he has power over all of us, except the areas in which Jesus Christ has taken back that power from him, and that is the truth, OK.

So he is only going to let so much happen to us, right?

The Lord is only going to let so much happen to us?

So he is only going to let Satan come so close [?to us?]?

He is going to let Satan do whatever needs to be done to break your pride and your rebellion so that you become obedient to Christ because you do not -- none of us have it within us of our own will to be disobedient to Christ. Satan has too much power over us. It is just like the Lord s- -- j- -- the Lord said to Satan, you can touch Job, but do not kill him. I believe he is not allowed to kill us.

So he can [INAUDIBLE] [CROSSTALK]

Definitely.

[CROSSTALK]

You are supposed to be building up resistance to not do it. The whole bottom line, we are told in the Book of Revelation, is we must overcome by the strength and the power of Christ. We have to lay hold of that strength and use it to overcome because, without that strength, there is no way we will ever overcome. So when we get Christ, we receive our weapon, and the war starts for real, but it is a real war. You have to resist and fight and learn to pray warfare and the whole thing because Satan is not fooling.

[INAUDIBLE] and then with the -- but you have got to have a willingness to be fed [CROSSTALK] you know --

Definitely.

[INAUDIBLE] it is not a game anymore.

No.

[CROSSTALK]

Your life depends on it.

Yeah. [?Your daily walk?] depends on it, so --

OK. Anybody else in this area here? Did I cover everything? I do not even know how I got into this, what the last question was, how I --

[CROSSTALK]

Rita's dream, yeah.

[CROSSTALK]

Oh, about the little girl, that is right, yeah. I think I have something else to say on that, so --

Could this little girl really exist, if I found someone that could draw a picture of this girl in my dream? I remember her. I still have her little face [CROSSTALK]

Yeah.

I know exactly what she [?looked like?]. Could she exist out in this world [?somewhere?]?

She --

[CROSSTALK]

Yeah.

[?I do not even know?].

She might exist, but if she does exist, she still typifies a whole company of people who will be taught, and you typify a whole company of teachers, OK. But for you personally, this is the first witness that I know of that you have shared with me of God telling you directly that you will teach. I have told you that you will teach. I think Rita has. I am not sure about that, and you have been skeptical, understandably so, but to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time the Lord has spoken to you directly saying, Joseph, you will teach. And when the Lord says you will teach, if he has to break your le- -- your two legs and your two arms, you will teach. See, when God calls you a teacher, you will go through whatever you have to go through to become a teacher.

So then why come in the dream, when she asked me what would the world be like without emotional or physical pain -- because [INAUDIBLE] a 7-year-old girl, you cannot un- -- you cannot picture her, even a 7-year-old, thinking in that, you know, state of mind. But when she asked me, you could hear -- I could hear the, kind of, waves. They would go up against the shoreline, and it seemed like I could feel the heat on my back because I had a t-shirt on. And, yet, as we were walking away, I could see us walking away, and I was holding her hand. We walked along the shoreline. I could only hear the wind and feel the sun, but I could not hear what answer I was giving her. How do I know that that was from the Lord because -- you know what I am saying? [CROSSTALK]

I know what you are saying. The dream was from the Lord because the symbols are scriptural, and the beach, the sand and the sea is in the Book of Revelation, you know. It -- they are scriptural symbols, and they typify the spiritual aspect of the church, OK. And the little girl, 7 years old spiritually, is --

[CROSSTALK]

OK. You have to try and get spiritual. God was not talking to you about a physically 7-year-old child; he was talking to you about human beings that could be anywhere from 20 to 60 to 80 years old who, spiritually speaking, are old enough to go to school. That is how old you are when you start learning, well, maybe a little younger, 6 or 7. You get into the first grade, and you start learning to read or write, so that means, spiritually speaking, believers who are ready to start to be taught. We have a whole church world full of believers who are in kindergarten and who are in diapers, and they are not ready to learn yet. But you were talking to the group who is now old enough to start to learn about spiritual things, OK.

So your wor- -- your dream is prophetic on three levels. The Lord is saying to you, you are ready to teach -- or not you are ready. You will be teaching. You are not ready now. You will be teaching. The Lord is saying he is getting the church world ready to be old enough to learn, OK, and the heat on your back means that the sun was risen, and that means that the sons of God are in the earth because that is what the risen sun means. And the sand and the sea means the spiritual world of the church, so that is a very powerful dream on many levels, and it prophesies what we are told about in Revelation chapter 12, that after the sons of God stand up, they will be teaching the church and the world the spiritual things that they need to know to get them delivered out of Hell also.

Can I give you [INAUDIBLE] -- I do not know if this has anything -- but on her face, she had three moles that went in a row down her left [INAUDIBLE] -- it was her left -- right next to her eyelash, there were three moles in a row, and on her chin there were two moles. What would that mean?

Moles? Well, what it says to me is a mole is an imperfection, so she typifies the church in its -- in her imperfection. She has not yet been delivered out of Hell, OK. Yeah?

I do not know if this is of the Lord, but the sands -- I was thinking of God telling Abraham you will have the people [INAUDIBLE] the stars and the sand in the sea, and the other thing was what was his symbology -- symbolism of it being a girl and not a boy around that age?

Yeah.

Would it mean more of the female part of the church?

Definitely, yeah.

OK.

I just want to say that I also had a word for you that you would minister, when we were praying over you that one time.

OK. I feel the Lord is saying to move on, but I do want to take a couple of minutes to tell you about this "Star Trek" program where the whole crew of the starship, including the captain, was taken over by mind control, and this is how it happened, through subtlety. They stopped off at some planet, and they were introduced to what they believed to be a game. All I could think about were these video games when I was watching the program, and they would put a headset on, a headset, and it had a wire, two wires, one that came out in front of each of your eyes. And you could look at the people when they showed you in the -- I do not know whether it taped over or not, OK. And you could see the people. They were just in ecstasy. That is the looks on their faces, yeah. They were just in ecstasy with this headset on, and they were just walking around the ship going, [?buh?]. [?You know, they?] -- that is what they looked like. They were in ecstasy. And it had -- each one of those wires landed in front of an eye, and it seemed to have something to do with the eye, and we know that the Bible talks about the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and the pride of life, so you lust for things that you see, and then it works with envy, OK.

But there was this young man and this young girl. They were not -- she was not a young girl. She was an officer on the ship, but they were young people who were officers on the ship, and they did not get caught, and they realized something was wrong, and being scientific geniuses, because it is "Star Trek: The New Generation," they went into the laboratory, and they did all kinds of tests, and they found out how this mind control was affecting the brain. And they said, well, look at that. You know, they had it up on the computer with the screen. Look at that: It affects the pleasure center of the brain. Do you know we have a pleasure center in the brain? That is why drugs are so pleasurable because it stimulates the pleasure center of your brain, and a lot of things that we do that gives us pleasure, we can get the exact same pleasure without doing what we do by having our brain stimulated.

And there was -- there is -- I do not know if he is alive or not. I think it was [?Asminov?], a science fiction writer who wrote a story about people from another planet, that men and women got together by touching hands, and they went into ecstasy by touching five fingers. You see, it does not matter what you do. If it affects the pleasure center of your brain, it does the job, OK. So this metal thing that was around their head, OK -- and that is what drugs do today. That is why people are running to take drugs, stimulating their pleasure centers.

So this metal thing that was on their head, it -- they saw it on the screen. It was affecting their -- the pleasure center of the brain, stimulating the pleasure center of the brain and affecting their emotions, and the people were becoming addicted to it. Why? Because it felt good. Satan controls us with pleasure. So they were walking around like a bunch of zombies, walking around the ship in ecstasy. And all they had to do -- they started by putting this thing on their head, and it looked like a game. It showed you. It looked like some kind of chess game, and it was a hypnotic game, just like these video games. It was stimulating the pleasure center of their brain, and there was an alien ship outside of the starship that was using this to capture the whole ship.

Now check this out, OK. Check this out, OK. Of course, they get saved because -- well, the girl gets taken over, OK. She -- because everybody on the ship had become subject to this mind control except this young man and this young woman, and the other people became aware, so they were trying to force it on this young man and this young woman, and they got the young woman, so it was just the young man. But before they got him, he fixed the robot, OK. They had put the robot out of commission, so as they were forcing it on the young man, they held him down, and they were forcing this thing on his head. Data, the robot, revives, and he came in, and he saved everybody by flashing his machine across their minds, and the illusion fell away, and they saw with reality again.

And they spoke to the ship via their telecommunications, and the -- it was a woman commander. She was very enraged that her mind control failed, and she said, "You do what we told you to do, or we are going to bomb you," and now the captain, in his right mind, said to his science officer, "What is their capacity?" And the science officer said there is no way they could defeat us with the size of their ship and the weapons that they have, but they would have defeated us because their mind control would have had us in la-la land while they came over and took over the whole ship. But in a fair-to-fair fight, in a face-to-face fight, in an equal battle, there is no way that they could have defeated us, and that was the end of the program because the starship took over the enemy.

So this is the bottom line: Satan is grabbing us with mind control. We -- those of us in whom Christ is coming forth, we have power over Satan, but he is using mind control either to make us think that we do not have it or to put our minds on worldly pleasures, OK. God says, look up here. I have got power for you over all the power of the enemy, and we are looking down at the ground because our mind is taken over by Satan. He does not want us to look up because the truth, as Jesus said, will truly set us free, and we have to fight this illusion.

And he will try to put your mind on something other than spiritual things. Sometimes I have an awful hard time getting into my studies. Every care of the world parades through my mind. I have the pray and pray and pray until I can actually get into the word. Satan is no jerk. He knows that the bottom line is that we are going to kill him. He -- that man is going to die, just like the alien ship outside the starship. He is no match for us unless he can keep this delusion on our mind and keep us in la-la land with whatever makes us happy in this world. And I know, in my dreams, the Lord calls it chocolate and candy. You want a piece? Come here. I will give you your candy. Open your mouth. Put the sugar cube in. That is what the pleasures of this world are.

So I found that very interesting, that the world has this knowledge. OK. I do want to take a few minutes [INAUDIBLE] -- I do want to take a few minutes to talk about spiritual warfare. This is all the -- we are having a big -- this may be the whole message today. I do not know. I will see what God says. I will see, you know, if you can take any more or not. It is only 12:30. I would like to speak a little bit about spiritual warfare. We have been under a very heavy onslaught of spiritual warfare, and I would like to give you some idea of how it works.

Every human being alive has the same god; his name is Satan. Every human being has their own personality and their own manifestation of the carnal mind within themselves, but in our unconscious mind, we are one, and Satan flows through all of us. So when the Lord wants to bring down a Christian or do damage to a Christian or a group of -- did I say the Lord? When Satan wants to do damage to a group of Christians, what he does is stir up Satan in somebody, and Satan operates through -- I just realized that I really did not finish my main point on the mind control thing. Did I make it clear that we are controlled through pleasure and pain and that, when we arise above that pleasure and pain, Satan will no longer be able to control us? OK. Data, the robot, was a robot.

We do not have to become a robot, but the way we arise out of pleasure and pain is by arising into the mind of Christ because the mind of Christ is not affected by pleasure and pain, OK. He is the rational mind of God, and he does not -- he is not effected by or does not use pleasure or pain to control; he uses pure spiritual power and the very love of God. We are s- -- when we are delivered from this delusion, we will serve him willingly. He does not have to control us with pleasure and pain. We will have the true -- pleasure is not the right word, but the true satisfaction, which is in union with Christ, and we will serve him willingly.

So, getting back to the -- well, I guess, the Lord says I did not explain -- let me say one more sentence. I did not explain it well enough, he said.

The way we will come into a condition whereby the controlling forces of Satan, pleasure and pain, no longer has power over us is by living our life out of Christ because Satan and the carnal mind only has power to impart pleasure and pain to those of us who are dwelling in our carnal minds. When we are living out of Christ, Satan cannot hurt our emotions, nor can he hurt this flesh. We know Jesus said, "No man taketh my life." I -- you can -- I can only die if I agree to let you kill me, otherwise you cannot kill me. And I am convinced that Jesus really was not in pain up there on that cross. He was full stature, 100 percent living out of his Christ mind. He had full control over everything his body felt, and he had full control over everything his mind felt, and this body is Satan's, and I do not believe Jesus was in any kind of agony on that cross. I do not believe it.

You can disagree with me if you like; that is OK. I prayed about that for a long time, and that is my opinion, and I will tell you right now that there are people who are in the Middle East, or I do not know if there may be some Westerners who study the Middle Eastern -- not Middle Eastern, the Eastern martial arts. There are fully accomplished people who have studied Eastern martial arts. They do not feel anything. We know that the Fakirs in India walk on the burning coals, and their feet do not burn. We know that they swallow fire, and they are not damaged. I know, in Africa, I was told there is a cult of people who go around with big, machete-type knives and slice their skins, and their skin does not cut. This is all in Satan's power.

[INAUDIBLE]

We see mystics of Satan religions walking on hot coals, burning themselves with fire, slicing themselves with machete-type knives, and there is no damage to them. There is no pain, and there is no damage to the flesh. So I do not see how anyone -- and I refuse you if you tell me that the Lord of glory felt pain and suffered when his body was pierced by nails and he hung on the cross. I do not believe it. You have a question?

Then was the purpose of this crucifixion for the benefit of the people which saw him, you know, to have compassion? Was that the main thrust of his -- in this experience [?in?] --

The Bible says he was crucified so that carnal men would believe, carnal men wo- -- look, people today do not believe that he was raised from the dead. Five hundred witnesses witnessed unto his resurrection, the last of which was the apostle Paul, and the ho- -- many thousands and millions of people today say that I do not believe he was raised from the dead. So what would they say if he was not publicly crucified? As far as I know, that is the only reason for his public crucifixion. I do not know of any other reason for his public crucifixion.

Did they say he was an example?

Did who say he was an example?

The Pharisees, you know. They used him as an example. It seems to me, like, in some way, some Scripture, I thought it was a Scripture that they used him as an example.

An example for what? If you find the Scripture, you show it to me. I am not --

OK.

-- aware of it. That does not --

OK.

-- mean it is not there.

[CROSSTALK]

There is a lot that I do not know. If you find it, you show it to me, and we will talk about it, OK. So I do not believe -- after praying about this for at least three years, I do not believe that the Lord of glory felt pain when some satanic worker of witchcraft can slice himself up and feel no pain, do not believe it. I do not believe it, OK.

This is probably my carnal mind, but I thought there was a Scripture that said Christ should suffer and die for us. Is that not a Scripture?

The -- I think it was Caiaphas, the high priest, s- -- prophesied, OK, that one man should suffer and die so that all of Israel should be saved, OK. The question is: What does the word suffer mean? Even Jesus said, I suffer m- -- the -- my coming suffering, but [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

The Greek word translated suffer, as used by Jesus, is Strong's #3958, and Thayer, in his lexicon of the Greek language, says that this word can mean to be afflicted to undergo evils. Now, listen, it means to undergo evils. That means to be the subject, to be the one against whom evil is directed, to be the one upon evil -- upon whom evil is done, OK. So if we are taking this definition of the word, it is not necessarily indicating that the one upon whom the evils or to whom the evils is done is experiencing torment intended by those evils.

Now we know that the wicked and fallen mind of man does damage. When he makes physical weapons, he kills you. He can kill you with physical weapons. But what happened to the body of Jesus? He was raised from the dead. Man, fallen man, could not kill the body of Jesus. Jesus said, "No man taketh my life unless I give you my permission." And when he finally gave his permission, the Father just raised him from the dead. So, brethren, expand your mind; expand your consciousness. Think with me: If wicked me were unable to kill the body of the man Jesus, if they were to accomplish upon him what they are able to accomplish upon every fallen man, is it not consistent to think that, very possibly, if they could not kill his body, they could not cause pain upon [?them?]?

So, when Jesus said, "I suffer," he meant that he suffered to that extent that evil men were going to do damage to him, but he also said that they cannot kill me unless I want them to. So is it not possible that they could not hurt him, that they could not cause him to feel pain unless he wanted them to? And why would he want them to let him feel pain? We know why he permitted them to kill his body, so that he could be raised from the red -- from the dead so that men could believe. But to what good would it be for the man, Jesus, who is Christ, to allow wicked men to cause him to feel pain?

So I leave this thought with you, and I suggest to you with all the strength I can that the man, Jesus, who is Christ, permitted wicked men to kill his body for the specific purpose of having the Father raise him from the dead. But I declare to you he did not give them permission to cause him to feel pain in that death, and that is my very strong opinion. You are most humbly -- I most humbly declare unto you that you are free to disagree with me, but as I said a few minutes ago, if the Fakirs in India can lay on a bed of nails, if men in Africa can slice their skin without damage to their body, I declare unto you that Jesus, who is Christ, felt no physical pain and that his body died only by and because of his express permission.

So we are going on with the spiritual warfare now, how it works. Satan wants to bring devastation into a Christian's life or into a group of Christians' lives. He -- Satan, which is a spirit, which is in the unconscious mind of man, he just starts stirring up, and he starts going around looking for people who will agree or who have it within their heart to be angry at these people, people who have the potential to be angry, people whose emotions are not under the control of the anointing of Christ but who would have no problem thinking or speaking or doing evil to these Christians at the slightest provocation.

And he stirs up someone to get very angry, and that anger is propelled through the realm of the spirit like a pipe, and the w- -- the -- flooded with water, and that anger starts going through the unconscious mind of everybody who has anything to do with this group of Christians. And every human being who does not have authority, who is not taking authority over their own potential to be enraged at these people will be seduced. As this rage comes flowing through the pipes of their unconscious mind, they are going to get caught up. Just think of water pushing through with great water pressure, pushing through your unconscious mind. This rage is coming from one source, and it is just going out into humanity, and everybody that knows these people who is willing to sin against them -- because this kind of rage and anger is sin. It is sin.

Anger that is propelled by witchcraft, anger -- there is a righteous anger, but we are not talking about righteous anger here. And righteous anger is not Christ, so any human being that is willing to let this anger find place in them and say, yeah, I always knew she was rotten, you know. He sh- -- I always knew she was no good; I always knew she was out to get me, always knew she wanted to do evil to me at any opportunity that she had.

Any person who feels that way in their hidden heart, when this -- [?what?] -- when this rage, which is likened to water pressure goes racing out into the realm of the spirit, it is going to touch the potential in them, and this rage, this potential rage in that individual which was lying dormant, is going to be stirred up just as if you took a big stick and start whipping up the water. When a storm hits the sea and the sea gets rough and waves start coming in, that is what it is like in the realm of the spirit. And it starts with one person. Satan starts with one person and this rage goes out in the realm of the spirit, stirring up evil in the hearts of every human being who is willing to give place to it. That is why, we are told, that we must bring every thought into captivity and every thought that is not of Christ must be cast down.

When rage rises -- look, rage rises up in my heart. I am still a fallen person. We had it at the breakfast table this morning. We prayed for that enemy of ours. We pronounced salvation upon him. We blessed him in every way. We will not respond to anger with anger. We will not respond to destruction with destruction. I do not care who hates me. I bless you. I bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I pray that God does good to you. With my dying breath, if you were killing me, I pray that God does good to you, and that is what Stephen did when they stoned him.

Jesus, on the cross, said, Father, forgive them. They do not know what they are doing. I will not return evil for evil, and whatever hurt God lets you do unto me, then let it be done. But we have many people in the church today and some people who are not in Christ, that when Satan starts beating the war drums and this rage starts challenging through the realm of the spirit, they either are overtaken by it and it stirs up their rage and their pot starts boiling over, or if they have any control at all, which most people do not have, over their emotions, they are not willing to put it down. Why? Because they are happy to have an opportunity and what they think to be a justification to hate you.

But, you see, there is no justification to hate anybody, no justification. No matter what they do to you, to bottom line is we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and my savior has forgiven me for everything that I have done, and I am commanded to forgive you for everything you have done because, if I do not forgive you for everything that you have done, I am in danger of losing the forgiveness of my God, and I am not about to give that up for anything.

And my Bible says, if you have ought against anybody, do not come to God and ask for favors because he is going to tell you, sonny, go make it right with your brother or I have got nothing to say to you. And we are told in another place, in the Epistle -- the First Epistle of John, this is how we know if we love the brethren. I am sorry. This is how we know if we truly love God: We love the brethren because God loves the brethren, and if you say that you love God, who you have never seen, and you hate your brother, that makes you a liar. So do not tell me that you love God when you hate your brother because the Bible says you are a liar.

And if you cannot stop hating them, if you cannot stop hating your brother, at the very least that the Lord requires of you is to say, Lord, I read the book. I do not want to be a liar. I desire to stop hating, but I cannot. Have mercy on me. And temporary righteousness will be given to you until the Lord cleans up your heart because if you cannot forgive, there is something wrong with your heart, and you need a cleansing. So, at the very least, cover your tail. It is just not worth it. The man who goes around saying I have a right to not forgive, watch out, because if you look up to the east, judgment is already headed your way. You have no right to not forgive anybody.

Now that does not mean you let them walk all over you. You stop them, in accordance with certain other principles that I am not going to get into right now. You do not let them kill you, you know. You deal with the problem. You deal with the evil in them. You deal with the sin in them in righteousness, but you do not hate them back, and you do not hold a grudge, and you do not refuse to forgive because, if you do, you are severely damaging your re- -- if you do so willfully, thinking you have a right to do that, which is the sin of pride, you have one big problem with the living God.

So when it looks like a whole bunch of stuff is going wrong in your life at once, when there is spiritual explosions on the left and earthquakes on the right and hurricanes down the middle, it is no accident, and especially if you check out with other brethren and you find out that the same thing is happening to them at the same time. You had better believe that Satan is beating his war drums and that the spiritual power of his authority in this world is gushing through the pipes of the un- -- carnal mind, picking up all kinds of debris and doing whatever damage it could do. We have people outside of this geographical area.

I spoke to someone on the telephone yesterday to tell them that things were pretty hairy around here, a lot of spiritual activity. And this person said to me, well -- he said, when you called me two weeks to tell me that, he said, I did not say anything to you on the phone, but I hung up the phone, and I said, ah, now this stuff is not going to touch me. I do not receive it, and he said this last two weeks has been the most incredibly difficult two weeks I have experienced in a long time, so that was his way of repenting because he did not take my warning seriously. I told him you better start breaking curses, and you better batten down your spiritual hatches because this hurricane is headed right towards you. And at the moment that I spoke to him on the phone, it had not touched him yet, you see. So praise the Lord, you know.

It is hard to believe this stuff. People do not want to believe it. The carnal mind does not want to believe that it is possible to get hit with spiritual missiles. They do not want to believe it. Why do not they want to believe it? Because, in their heart of hearts, whether they admit it or not, they are terrified that they will not have any weapons against it. Someone walks down the street and punches you; you know what you have to do. No matter how weak or strong you are, you know what you have to do. If you are weak, you call the police, you know, or you run, you know. You do something, right. You know what you are going to do. You hide behind a tree. Climb up the tree, if you are a weak person, but you know how to do something to help yourself. If someone comes down with a gun, maybe have your own gun.

But when someone tells you that you are getting bombed with spiritual bombs, usually, the bravest soldier s- -- his knees start to shake because he does not know what to do. And here he is sitting there, and these spiritual bombs are falling on his head, and he is just plain scared. But there is something to do, and there is a way to wage this warfare. You have to be instructed in it, and then you have to practice, and there is only -- well, there are two spiritual weapons you can use in spiritual warfare. The only true weapon is Christ. There is a false weapon, you know. People that operate in the power of witchcraft fight witchcraft with witchcraft.

You know, it is very common, all over the place. People with witchcraft fight people with witchcraft. We saw a movie about that here. We did a whole message on it. It was Santería against brujería. That is OK.

[INAUDIBLE]

Santería against brujería, white witchcraft against black witchcraft. We saw a movie on it.

White witchcraft against black witchcraft?

Yeah.

[CROSSTALK]

[?Racial?] -- no, it is basically just witchcraft, but --

[?Could I give you the name?]?

It -- racial -- Santería is based -- it is just the name of witchcraft operating among the Puerto Ricans, but it is the same thing whatever name the people give it. It is witchcraft that some people -- they use it, and they say that they are using it for your good against people who use witchcraft to do evil. [INAUDIBLE], yeah.

If you want the name of the movie it was "The Believers" [CROSSTALK]

"The Believers," yeah.

[CROSSTALK]

Yeah. So we saw, in that movie, a woman trying to use her witchcraft strengths to save someone who was being killed by witchcraft power, yeah. But the only true s- -- the only legal spiritual weapon is Christ, you know, and Christ -- if you use Christ as your weapon, you could, you know, take a couple of clips to the jaw, but you have got to win because Christ comes on two levels. He comes on -- the weaker level is the Christ that is being formed in us. His name is --

[?Christ Jesus?].

Christ Jesus is the mind of Ch- -- is the person of Christ which is being formed in we imperfect people. Now if we are up against some measure of witchcraft and they are too strong for us, all we have to do is confess, and you -- this is where you have to overcome your pride. You have to confess that your opponent is too strong for the measure of spiritual power that you have and cry out to the Lord Jesus Christ who is all powerful in the universe, and he will come in and knock your opponent out, if your cause is righteous.

You have to have your sins confessed. You have to have your sin -- this has to be a righteous battle. The Lord does not defend you if you are battling with somebody out of your carnal mind. I am talking about someone being severely attacked by witchcraft power because they are serving Christ. It has to be a righteous war. If the workers of witchcraft are too strong for you, you call on your glorified big brother, the Lord Jesus Christ, and he will pick up the pieces and give you the victory, but I am telling you he lets you get hit, but you get back up again. You know, you get back up again. Just keep on going.

So that is what is been happening these last few days. Satan has been on the warpath, and he has found a few people who are willing to hate, and hatred carries spiritual power. Glory to God. We just have to be careful, very careful not to fight this war as a self-defense, but to fight the war in righteousness knowing that when you fight this battle, that the end of it is -- at least, from our imperfect place, we have to be praying for the ultimate salvation of our enemies. If in your heart of hearts you are really looking to get that guy because he dared to do this to you, if that is really what you are thinking, you are not fighting with Christ; you are fighting with the spiritual power of your own carnal mind, and it is witchcraft, OK.

You are not supposed to stand there and be killed. You are supposed to fight in the same way that you would discipline a small child. You are not going to let him draw all over your walls with lipstick. You are going to take him, and you are going to stop him from doing it, but you are going to teach him that he is not supposed to do that, and you are going to help him to grow up to be a better person. So we stop people who are doing damage to us, but our true heart of hearts, we have to be desiring that God would have the same mercy on them that he had on us. And if your heart is anything other than that, you really need to confess it as sin, as vengeance or revenge or whatever is in your heart. It is not acceptable to God.

He -- there are -- sometimes God wipes people out. He does kill people. We know that. It is in the New Testament. He killed Ananias, and he killed Sapphira, and we know all about that, but that was God's judgment to kill them. We do not go around killing people. We do not go around making decisions that this person is so wicked that God is not going to correct their wickedness and let them have the same blessings that we have. I do not know, really, anybody in our imperfection, at this stage, who is qualified to make that judgment. I know I am not, OK. Anybody else along these subjects? Glory to God.

When we have -- when we feel these emotions of other people coming at us like n- -- like, I felt someone was as mad as a hornet yesterday, OK. What responses to that -- how are we to deal with it, you know, break curses or what have you? Could you go over that [?whole?] [CROSSTALK]

Yeah. Well, it all depends on how you are perceiving this anger. Are you perceiving this anger in your emotions or in your spirit? OK. That is the first question that you have to ask yourself. If you are perceiving this anger in your spirit, it means that you have a r- -- an understanding of it in your mind. It is not doing you any damage at all. You are almost -- well, it is not accurate, but I am going to use the word to say it is an intellectual understanding. You are aware that someone is as mad as a hornet, but it is not hurting you in any way, OK. That would require one form of response. The other form of response is that you are -- that your own soul, your own emotions, is acting as a receiver of that person's anger.

Now if the way you are perceiving this anger is that your own soul is stimulated to rage, OK, then the first thing you have to deal with is deal with yourself because, if you do not deal with this anger that is raging through you, if you let it rip, OK, then you are guilty of the same sin, and you have been seduced to sin.

Now if Mr. Jones is -- excuse me. If Mr. Jones is enraged at you -- when somebody is angry at you and it is out in the open and you know about it, you can deal with it in the natural. It is the same situation as I just spoke about. If someone comes after you with a gun, you have your choice. You can run up and hide in the tree. You can get your own gun. At least you know what your choices are when someone is threatening you in the natural and you can see the danger, so we are not talking about that right now.

We are talking about someone raging against us that is not in our conscious knowledge. We cannot see the rage. They are in another lo- -- f-- -- geographical location, and no one has told us about it. We have no knowledge of it, but someone is raging at us. For spiritually sensitive people, that rage can register either in the mind of Christ -- now if it registers in the mind of Christ, it is -- has nothing -- it bypasses your emotions, and I am calling it an intellectual knowledge, which it really is not, but I am using that word to give you the understanding that it is a knowledge of the rage that is not affecting your own emotions, OK.

But most of us, in this hour, including me, as you all know, get it registering not in the mind of Christ, although sometimes I get that, but more often than not, a person's rage registers in my own emotions. So most of us, in the stage of development that we are in right now, our knowledge is in this low realm of our emotions, and when that other person's rage touches us, there is the danger of being seduced to become angry. Now should we be seduced and become angry, we do not become angry at the person who is angry at us. Why? Because we do not even know who is angry at us, or -- but even if we do know who is angry at us, the tendency is to be angry at somebody else, to be angry at whoever happens to be in your acquaintanceship at the moment.

And if you do not lay hold of that anger, if you do not recognize it, first of all, that Satan is ripping through your emotions, y- -- and you let it flow, someone will drop a tissue on the floor, and before you know it, you are going to be having a knock-down, drag-out fight with them, cursing each other out and hating each other and not even know what happened to you. What happened to you was that this other person's anger touched your emotions. It bypassed your intellectual understanding. You did not know what was going on. It bypassed -- I know I just used the wrong word. It bypassed your five senses, your seeing, your hearing, OK. You did not know this person was mad at you, but there is no time or space in the realm of the spirit, and even though they were 5 miles away from you, their rage touched your emotions and got you mad at a third party, and nobody knew where this fight came from. That is the way these spiritual things work.

So if anger is arising in your own emotions or any ungodly emotion that is overtaking you -- it is usually anger or rage or murder or something like that -- the first thing you have to do is sit on it. You have got to grab it. When you feel that anger arising in you, it does not matter whether it is coming up out of your own mind or whether someone else's anger is touching you. You do not have time to figure that out. You just put down the rebellion because that anger is rebellion against Christ. It is a rebellion against the laws of Christ, that this anger is rising up in you, OK.

So you have to -- the first thing you do is have to -- you have to stop yourself, to the best of your ability, from being seduced to sin, OK. Number one, you have to stop yourself from hurting anybody else with that rage because, if you let it pass through you, then you have to make amends with that person. You have damaged that person, and that person has damaged that person, and you have got all kinds of problems. So the first thing you do is put up your first line of defense. Do not let it go out of your mouth. I hide in the house. When it happens to me, I run in my office, and I close the door, and I start to pray. Do not let it go any further than this, Lord, OK.

You realize the anger itself [INAUDIBLE] you realize the anger itself, you know, and when it is stimulated in you and you try to suppress it. Is that [?what you mean?]?

Well, you do not try to suppress it. There is a difference between suppressing it and dealing with it in Christ. When you deal with it in Christ, you kill it.

[INAUDIBLE]

When you suppress it, you just press it down, and when you press anger down, it is just going to come up again an hour later.

[INAUDIBLE] [?kill it?].

Y- -- well, you have to kill it --

[CROSSTALK]

-- but I am getting to it, OK. Did you have a question?

No.

OK. So the first thing you have to do is be able to recognize it. Now two weeks ago, it sneaked up on me. I am pretty good at this stuff, you know, but it sneaked up on me two weeks ago. It started, and I was expecting trouble. I told everybody here I was expect -- I told everybody expect trouble, but it did not come as a raging anger; it came as a low-grade annoyance. I was just annoyed at everybody. I was annoyed at everybody here. I was annoyed at myself, and I was saying to myself, well, that is a really stupid thing to be annoyed at, so I am not going to talk to anybody about it; that is ridiculous, you know.

And I was suppressing it; I was denying it; I was saying I am not going to let it go any further, but I did not kill it because I thought it was too small to do me any damage. And it went on for a day and a half, and somebody did something that got me mad, and I blew. I had a problem here that could have been avoided if I did not blow my gasket. Restraint. [?Yeah?], but who needs it? So the first thing you have to do is recognize the anger, and it does not always come in like a flood, I found out recently. It can start as a low-grade irritation.

So anything -- the bottom line is that anything in your emotions or in your mind that is aggressive towards another person, you really have to get it before God and say, Lord, what is this? Where is it coming from? I confess it as sin. You see, I did not do that. I thought it was too small to worry about it. I did not confess it as sin. Excuse me. I did not put it before the Lord, and it got bigger, and it swallowed me up, briefly, but it swallowed me up. So the f- -- you have to examine yourself for sin, and the second you see it, it does not matter where it is coming from. You have got to confess it as sin. You have got to repent, and you have got to ask God to help you to kill it. It must die.

After you do that, after you have got it under control, then I always say to the Lord, where did it come from? Was it mine? If it was my sin, I am perfectly willing to take responsibility for it, but if it was not my sin, I would like to know whose anger was ripping through me. And the Lord usually tells me. He usually tells me. So the bottom line is that anger is sin, and you have to deal with it without knowing whose sin it is. If it is registering in your emotions, you are in danger of being guilty of sin, and it has to be dealt with right then and there by confessing it as sin, repenting and asking the Lord to help you kill it. Did I answer your question?

I want to spend some time on the way this anger registers in the emotions of people who are spiritually sensitive. Now it happened to me last night. Celia and June knows that it happened to me last night, and I missed the whole boat, you know. I am still learning about this stuff too. We have had some trouble here in the ministry with someone very, very, very angry at me, and actually a whole bunch of people very, very, very angry at me, and that is what is stirring all -- up all this muck and mire that can be likened to someone going down under the ocean and just stirring up all that muck from the ocean bed. And there is been a lot of spiritual activity, and it is been stirring up anger in other people.

And the minute I got off the phone with you, within 60 seconds, I was hit, and I did not put two -- I should have put two and two together. Whenever you get hit like that, you have to ask yourself, who was I just talking to? What could have happened that would be bringing this on me? But it came out of the blue. It came like a shot. I had no idea anybody was angry. Everything was fine while I was on the telephone with you, so I did not put two and two together, and I just assumed. And I am always telling all of you s- -- not to draw conclusions. I drew the conclusion that it was this other person who is absolutely enraged with me right now, that whole group of people over there. I -- we -- all three of us assumed that that is what it was.

But severe anxiety came on me, and it got to the point that I was actually manifesting hysteria. I sat down in this chair, and I said to Celia and June -- I said, wow, this is really ba- -- now this is the sign that it was not me because there was another mind in me saying, wow, look at my emotions. There is actual hysteria in my emotions. I have not experienced anything like this in years. This is really bad. So that is the sign that it was not me because I was looking at my own emotions and saying where in the world is this coming from.

And Celia and June prayed for me. We went into some warfare, and we -- all three of us assumed it was this other group of people, but I did get deliverance, and it did go down. The hysteria went because [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- but there was still great turmoil in the spirit, apparently, at the exact moment that your friend was screaming his head off. It was registering in my emotions, just like light registers in a bulb when you turn it on. I am spiritually sensitive, OK. And, of course, the rage was against me, so I was feeling the brunt of it. I also feel it when it is towards somebody else, but I was feeling the brunt of it because the rage was towards me, and I knew it was very severe.

There was confusion all over my mind, and, actually, it took -- we defeated it in the spirit when we prayed, but then it took several hours for the confusion to go out of my mind. I could not even study last night. I tried, but I just threw in the towel, and I went to bed early because I was getting nowhere fast. But the turmoil was getting less and less, but my mind was all messed up, and I did not know until you called later in the evening that there had been a problem, at which point I said, uh-huh, I should have figured that out. As soon as I hang up the telephone, I get hit like this. I did not even put two and two together.

So it is very hard, waging a war with people and with events that you cannot see, so this is part of what I call getting your spirit legs going. We have to start functioning in the spirit, and the way we function in the spirit is that we ask questions. Now I should have said to the Lord where in the world is this coming from, but I did not. I assumed it was coming from the other guy, and I will have to follow my own teaching. These assumptions have to go. We cannot afford to be drawing conclusions and making assumptions because this war is getting heavy. And just because that machine gun over there was blasting you in the morning, it does not mean it is the same machine gun that is blasting you at night.

[CROSSTALK]

You cannot see where it is coming from. You know, in a natural war, at least you can say, well, the bullets -- I could tell they are hitting me from that direction. You know, I just -- did that go off? I thought I heard a click?

No.

No? It is -- the bottom line is that you have to ask the questions. And my experience is the Lord does not tell me -- rarely tells me something that I do not ask him about, and the reason is he wants to train me to operate in the spirit, and the -- you a- -- you see, he is our eyes. The Lord Jesus Christ, he is our eyes and our ears and our knowledge, and he wants to train us to get into this habit of turning to him for everything, and I was completely remiss. The bomb came out of the blue. It hit me suddenly, and I did not stop to say, Lord, what is going on? And that was what messed me up, but at least we had the presence of mind to pray. In years past, when the Lord first started training me in these lines, I would not even pray about it. I would even realize that it was an attack.

And I know lots of people come to me, on occasion, and they are fully manifested, and I will say to them, you know, you are manifested. Some people get upset when I say that. They think it is an insult. I am not insulting you. I w- -- if I ever say that to you, what I am saying to you is do you realize you are under some kind of a spiritual attack because, frequently, we do not realize it? So what I am saying to you is you are under a spiritual attack. Start throwing the bombs back. I am not insulting you if I tell you, you are manifesting. I am saying some spiritual power has risen up and is contaminating your life. Do not attack me; fight the spiritual enemy. That is what I am saying to you.

So there has been a lot going on here over this last week. We have three people that were severely ill because this kind of spiritual warfare can make you ill. It depends on what your weaknesses are, how you get affected. So we have three seriou- -- you know, well, Rita is OK now, but she has been very ill. She missed a couple of days of work. Mary is home today, and Hazel is pretty sick.

[INAUDIBLE]

Yeah.

I just want to share how God is moving in our lives. Celia and I were not supposed to come yesterday because, well, the weather was supposed to be bad today, but we were called to come and -- yesterday and spend the day, so I thought it was a preparation of what was coming about that whole day because we were in warfare, for your not knowing, you know, what was coming about. But I can see God's hand working, you know, preparing us and, you know, bringing us into this whole setup, you know.

Yeah.

[?I hear it?] coming out here. See, the word that kept coming is to be instant in season and out of season. That is the word [?I got?].

What does that mean?

What does it mean?

Yeah.

For when he calls, just run.

Right. Respond to him when [INAUDIBLE]

At the time that you called for us to come out, at c- -- 2 o'clock [INAUDIBLE] and I said -- immediately, I said [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- it reminded me of, you know, when you called, you know, drop everything, and just go with what the Lord has for you. And there was so much to do, and I said how am I going to do all this stuff? [?Are we ready??] And when I called Celia and she called back, she says never mind an hour. I am coming over in a few minutes, and I said, oh, I have nowhere [?to go first?]. I said, please, Lord, is this what you are going to do to us when you are ready to call [?for us?], you know?

Definitely. He says drop everything --

Yes.

-- when he calls you. [INAUDIBLE]

[INAUDIBLE]

Be prepared.

That is so carnal. I said to the Lord, Lord, we feel like a robot.

Well, the Scripture clearly states that, as you mature in Christ, that he just thinks, and you go, and he has no respect -- I really believe this. He has no respect for your personal life [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- with, possibly, one exception, if you have a responsibility towards a dependent child, perhaps the Lord would honor that. But outside of that, he has no respect for your personal life. His needs come absolutely first, and when he calls, he expects you -- of course, also if you have a job, I would think he w- -- he some- -- most of the time, he respects that, but I have been told to stay home f- -- I will tell you that. That is another testimony.

He expects you to drop everything and do his will. His spiritual purposes are more important than anything that is important to you in this foolish life, and God calls this life foolish. W- -- Paul said that everything that he has ever accomplished in this world is what?

Dung.

Dung.

[CROSSTALK]

Dung. That is a nice way of saying the other stuff, dung.

[?Oh?].

OK.

[CROSSTALK]

Then he called it dung compared to the power which is in Christ, and, if you want power in Christ, you have to do what he tells you to do because Christ does not give you power when he says go left and you go right. The power is when he says go left and you go left. That is where the power is because he is not giving you power to do your thing. He is raising you up to share his power to do his thing. And if you cannot perceive his Spirit and you cannot perceive the assignment he is directing you to, you would not have his power upon you. Why? Because it is not for a Sunday drive in the park. His power is to do his thing, so if you cannot find out where he is pointing you, you do not have any power. God's power is to do God's work, contrary to what is being taught in the church today. It is his power. It is for him. It is for his purposes. He will take care of you, but by and large, you are being trained up to be an expression of him to do his will in this world. Yeah?

He even confirmed it by having the next-door neighbor come over and plow my walk out, clean the whole walk out with him machine, you know, and it was s- -- unbelievable all the things that came about, you know, to help me get out in a split-second --

Get you out [?of here?].

-- timing, you know.

Yeah.

I have to say I am really so carnal that I felt such rebellion, but I had to go. I knew my husband went out. He dug our car out, which he had covered over with all his -- doing the driveway, and he covered up the car. He went out to do it himself.

Really?

So I knew it was God, and I said, well, I better make sure she [?gets going?].

Yeah.

But I was not happy. That is what I am saying, so that is an evil in my heart.

Celia, that was my condition the whole week that it took me to write that book. I told you I was clawing, scratching and screaming the whole week. I worked from 7 in the morning until 1 or 2 o'clock the next morning to get that book out for about seven days, screaming, the whole time, I do not want to do this, and he just had control of me. I have to do this; I have to do that. I am behind on this; I am behind on that. He just took control of me and wrote that book.

Thank you for sharing that because I was beginning to feel such guilt, thinking what kind of a person am I that I would feel bad?

You are a carnal, fallen person.

[CROSSTALK]

But I thought I was more than most [CROSSTALK]

Welcome to the club.

[CROSSTALK]

Oh, God. I remember the time the Lord sent me into the s- -- told me he was giving me a job in Manhattan. Oh, I did not want to go. I was mad as a hornet. I did not want to do it, but he did not give me a job out here, so I did not have much choice. I went into the city. I got the job in one day in Manhattan, which is unbelievable, and so I knew it was God. And I got used to it, you know. It was not so bad. I was riding in on the bus. I slept all the way in. It was not so bad. And then he moved me back out here. I remember the day. I was as mad as a hornet. I made the adjustment to Manhattan, and he moved me back out here. I remember the day. I was going into the shower, screaming, pounding on the walls. I mean, talk about rebellion, you know. Then he sent me back to Manhattan. He just whips you around until you get the message.

[CROSSTALK]

He is the boss, you know. And then once you come into line with his will --

[CROSSTALK]

Once you come into line with his will --

[CROSSTALK]

Once you come into line with his will, you start getting peaceful, you know. Like, a lot of people -- I have told you this many times. They do not believe me. There is so much that I really do not care about. I think I even had this with you a couple of times. I said, Rita, I really do not care, and you did not believe me, you know. I really do not care because I have been so broken by the Lord that there are many things in this world, it really makes no difference to me at all, you know. Yeah?

[INAUDIBLE] I -- d- -- last -- was it last weekend? The last weekend, I was invited to go to skiing and to do some other things [INAUDIBLE]. And I s- -- I chose not to, you know, and someone said, well, Joseph, I think it is good therapy that you get out. And you are very quiet lately these past couple of months. You know, you do not do anything, and, you know, come on. I said, no, I really do not [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [INAUDIBLE] play it, but I will not watch it. I do not sit around and watch it, and, you know, it is funny you shared that because I feel [INAUDIBLE] a lot of things that I want to do that I will not do, you know, things that I would enjoy doing that I will not go out and do. I just -- I will not go out and do [?them?].

Why not? You just do not feel like it?

I do not know what is wrong [?with me?]. I just will not do it. Like, I will go to my lessons, and I will go play basketball, and I will do some other -- I will go to work, you know. I will do those things, but when it comes to shopping or if it comes to doing some -- like, going somewhere, you know, m- -- I get turned off because I am around people that are in the world, you know, even though [?that there are?] not certain things that they have gotten over in their lives, but [INAUDIBLE] just certain things I will not do, and I do not want to be around people like that anymore. [CROSSTALK]

Praise the Lord. [?No?]? But the bottom line is that the Lord wants full control over our life --

[CROSSTALK]

-- and -- let me finish my sentence, OK. And the Lord says that we are likened unto his horse.

[CROSSTALK]

That is what we are. That is how the Lord sees us. We are his horse, and if he is pulling on the reins to go left and we are going right, w- -- that bit in our mouth is really hurting us. He is kicking us with the spurs in the side of our belly, and he is yanking on the reins, and there is a battle going on between us and the Lord, and it is really hard for him to give us any really exciting assignments until we start doing what he tells us, OK. He will give us a couple little of experiences, you know.

There are people in the church today that they are satisfied with prophesying on the floor of the church. Well, we do not -- w- -- over here, we are beyond that, but, really, in some of these big churches, people -- I was there. I passed through it, very excited. Oh, I gave a prophesy on the floor of the church. Was that not wo- -- and it is wonderful, if you are in kindergarten and you draw a picture and mommy puts it up on the refrigerator. It is wonderful, but we are supposed to grow up, OK. And as you mature, God gives you really exciting spiritual experiences, but you cannot them if you do not do what he tells you because if he says your spiritual experience is over there and you decide you do not want to go over there, you missed it. He is going to send somebody else, you know.

When I was part of that ministry that went into Harlem every week, I went in there one night with the whole ministry, you know. I went in there, and I looked at the piano. We were in a church, you know. We rented a church in Harlem, and I looked up, and there was this, like, jar filled with beads, and I knew God was directing my eyes towards it. And I looked at it, and I did not know what it was, and I missed it. I did not say, Lord, what is it? Did not ask the question. The Lord called my eyes to it again, and I knew it was God, but I did not ask the question.

Now when it comes to spiritual events, God goes with spiritual maturity. I was the first one he came to, but I did not rise to the occasion, so he went to the next person in the church, OK. He showed her the jar with beans, and either she knew what it was or she asked him because she got the word that it was witchcraft, and it was in a jar, and it was pointed right towards the pulpit where the pastor would be preaching as soon as he got up there. So she got the message. She went, and she told him. He put the jar -- he put -- took the jar, put it in a brown paper bag, stomped on the jar, and I do not know whether he threw it out or burnt it. I do not know what he did with it, but he took it down, you see. So if you want exciting, spiritual experiences in your life, you have to do what God tells you, so I missed it, you know. I missed that one.

In a split second.

Yeah. Well, Rita and I had a really exciting experience a few months ago. We just went out to have breakfast on a Sunday morning, and, all of a sudden, Rita was driving in the wrong direction. I said, Rita, where are you going? And she says, I do not know, is that not where you wanted me to go? And I said, no, I thought we were going that way. You do not remember this? And I said, but hold it, if you are driving that way, maybe the Lord wants us to go that way. Keep on driving, and I said, now what is in this direction? You do not remember this? And the two of us are driving, saying, now where could we be going? What is in this direction? And we got the word, and we wound up -- we had that -- we went into that place and prayed warfare and broke the curses, and we ripped up the turf in that place, you know. Then we went out and had breakfast. God sent us. That is exciting, when you are driving the car and that is not where you want to go, you know. That is how I wrote this book. I t- --

I knew something was up --

Yeah.

[CROSSTALK] turned that corner [CROSSTALK]

Yeah.

[CROSSTALK]

Why did I turn that corner?

[CROSSTALK] not usual that I would do that.

Yeah. And I told you that is how I wrote this book. I started out studying for a message, and I thought I was just putting a note in my computer for the message, and I am typing, and I am typing, and I am typing. And I said, what is going on here? I better make this a separate document, and I did not stop typing for a week, and the book came out. That is what happened. So God wants to have his way with us, and it is perfectly normal to have your carnal mind screaming and yelling that it wants to do something else.

I was so frightened it meant that I would never be a son.

No. The fact that you obeyed means that you will be a son, you see. You had it backwards. Because if Christ was not in you -- he had to have enough power over you to make you do what your carnal mind did not --

Right.

-- want to do, so you must be a son, or he would not have had that much power over you.

[INAUDIBLE]

Please.

I do not know if you witness this or not, but sometimes I have experienced the good -- there is the acceptable will of God is goodwill, I think, and then a perfect will of God [INAUDIBLE] I look at it like this, that the -- I do not know if you [INAUDIBLE], but sometimes there is heavy -- there is such heavy warfare going on that you are not totally free from another person's mind. Sometimes you do -- but yet you do the will of God even within that control, but the perfect will of God would be to be free of everyone's mind and just have his mind completely and just do his perfect will. But I have found that sometimes he allows it, I think, that it -- within that other per- -- that within the control of, maybe, somebody else's mind or under authority of someone who is not totally of God, you can still do the good will of the Father. You know what I mean?

Yeah. But you have to be doing it to a certain percentage, or he will give it to someone else. You may not be doing perfectly, but you have to be doing enough of his will to accomplish his purpose, or he will give the assignment to someone else.

Oh, I believe that.

Most certainly, his will, will be done --

Yeah.

-- one way or another.

The point that I was saying was -- is that, if you cannot break through to the perfect will at the time, which is just only following his perfect mind, that there is something -- some other elements there [INAUDIBLE] do the best that you can until you break through, which is, you know, the good will of [CROSSTALK]

Well, we are all in -- no, I understand what you are saying, that we are not in perfection right now, and we do not always respond to his instructions perfectly.

Yeah.

But he will -- like, he came back to me twice. He gave me a second chance, and I missed, you know. I messed it up, but he will go so far, and then he will say, well, my job is -- my assignment is not getting done, so I will give it to someone else. It is not a punishment. It is just that he wants his job done, you know, and you did not hear it, or you were not able to do it, so h- -- when you see someone else completing your assignment, that is enough, you know, to make -- you are supposed to learn from it. It is not punishment for punishment's sake. You are supposed to learn from it, and we are supposed to be more and more spiritually sensitive to him.

And I think I must have given you my testimony about the diner, that at this time of my life that this took place, I was not eating red meat. And I was in my parents' house on a Sunday night, had already had dinner and was -- just this urge for a hamburger just came over me. I never ate hamburgers, never ate white bread, never ate red meat, but I had to have a hamburger. And I said, what is this thought ripping through my mind? I said, well, let me give it a try, you know. Maybe it is God. And I pulled into the Seaport Diner over here on a Sunday night, dinner hour, and there was only one seat. Did you hear this testimony?

[INAUDIBLE]

There was only one seat in the whole diner, at the counter next to a rip-roaring drunk. He was as drunk as a skunk. I do not know wha- --

[CROSSTALK]

In the diner, I am surprised they did not throw him out. He was as drunk as a skunk. [?That was?] -- and I looked around, and I saw that was the only seat in the whole diner, and I said, oh, Lord, I know you are doing this to me.

Obviously.

So obvious [CROSSTALK]

So I walked up, and I sat down to this guy. Man, h- -- this -- next to this guy. He wa- -- I am telling you he was as drunk as a skunk, and I sat down next to him. And he takes a look at me, and I said, oh, no. Takes a look at me, and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- takes out his money clip. He starts throwing his money clip on the counter and saying, ah. All eyes in the diner were on me. Nobody could figure out how I could be stupid enough to sit next to this drunk, you know, but I knew that God had something to say to this drunk. So he offered to buy me dinner. I said, I do not want anything. I do not want your dinner. I am just sitting here. He could not figure out why I was sitting next to him, so he is just going on and on and whoopee-doo, and I -- he was -- this guy was drunk, you know. He was spinning around on the seat at the counter.

Are you kidding me?

No. Everybody was staring. The waitress was staring at me. I could see her face. Why is this woman sitting here next to this drunk, you know? Nobody could figure it out.

[CROSSTALK]

So I just sat there. I was just waiting, you know, for instructions from the Lord, and he started talking to me, and I started talking to him, and he is just going on and on and on. And I am sitting there saying, Lord, what do you want me to do? And I talked to him for -- you heard this testimony, did you not? You never heard this testimony? I talked to him for about 15 minutes.

[CROSSTALK]

Yeah. And he is just going on and on and on, and then, all of a sudden, he got very serious, and he just started pouring his heart out. I was praying for him the whole time, silently, you know, and he told me that he had been in Vietnam. And, you know, you may have heard that the Viet Cong, they used to send children into the villages with grenades on them, and he was in -- they -- well, they sacrificed their own, you know, to kill the Americans, so he had a choice between killing these kids or letting his whole unit be blown up, and he knew that he had to choose his unit, so he had to kill the kids.

Their own kids?

[CROSSTALK]

Oh, the enemy kids.

[CROSSTALK]

So he just never got over it, you know. He did what he had to do, you know, as an American soldier. He made the right decision, but he killed these kids, and he was just a drunk ever since. And he had a mother who had -- was some -- she was -- had some mainline -- she was Methodist or something like that, but she had never stopped praying for him for years. He -- this was, like, 10 years he was an alcoholic, since that experience, and she had never stopped praying for him, and it was just his night, you know. God decided to set him free that night. I believe that man was set free, so as soon as I heard that story, I knew, you know, that God was going to do something for him. God was going to move, but I did not know what. And we were just talking, and at one point, the Lord manifested in my eyes. It is like -- was like something out of a science fiction movie. My eyes just locked onto his eyes like a tractor beam, I am telling you, like, you know right out -- right --

[?You could see?] the Lord coming through.

-- right out of "Star Trek." The Lord came through my eyes and locked onto his eyes. It was eyeball to eyeball. He could not take his eyes away from me, and I just knew God went in. He went into the man's life; he went into his mind through my eyes. And as soon as the Lord released me, I just got up, and I left, and I knew that the purpose that I was there was accomplished. I never saw the man again, but I just know that God turned his whole life around. There is not a doubt in my mind that God turned his whole life around.

So the bottom line is what? I perceived this urging for a hamburger, which I knew was totally alien to me, and I questioned it. I said, Lord, why am I having this totally alien craving? Could it be you speaking to me? And I went for it, and I had this really exciting spiritual experience, but if I did not go for the hamburger, the Lord would have sent somebody else.

And you talked to him about the Lord?

Mm-hmm, not much, very little. Mostly I just listened to him. You have to be -- if you want to minister Christ, you must be a good listener, you know. Just shut your mouth, OK. Just one second. You have to shut your tongue, OK. You have to be quiet until God is speaking. I listened to him for 15 or 20 minutes, hardly said anything until God brought out of the depth of his broken heart what his problem was. And as soon as he confessed it, God moved in that -- I had very little to say to that man, very little. It was all a spiritual move.

So if you like to hear yourself talk and if you want to be a big shot that gives counsel and advice and who knows it all, this is not the ministry for you. I am not looking at anyone in particular. This is not the ministry for you. Go back to the old order church because there is no big shots here, and there is no personal glory. The glory and the excitement is when Jesus accomplishes his purposes through you, and unless he gives you a forum like this where you are actually teaching -- I am not talking about that. I am talking about him sending you out into the streets to people that could never get to a meeting like this. You better be prepared to say very little because when you are talking, God cannot talk. And if you do not shut up long enough to let him talk, he is going to send somebody else.

This kind of ministry, where he sends you out to people who really are not believers, it is a quick hit. It is -- I mean, I have experienced this many times. It is a quick hit. He has got one thing to say to them. He is going to hit them with his spiritual power in one quick move, and then however he does it, he latches onto them. His Spirit latches onto them, and then he starts to grow over the weeks and months to come. But our job, when he sends us on an assignment like this, is to sit there with a shut mouth until the proper moment, and then it could be just a couple of words or a sentence that, through your words, the Lord will attach himself to these people’s spirit, and that is all you are there to do. You are not there to give them any great wisdom or any great teaching about the mind of Christ. You are there for him to engraft himself to their spirit. Then they will learn; then they will be taught. First things first, right?

I am sorry. AA did not come up with that.

[CROSSTALK]

OK. [?Good?]. I am sorry. God was here before AA was here. I am very sorry, OK. God --

[CROSSTALK] say thank you.

No. First things first is an AA slogan, and God gave me that before I ever knew it was an AA slogan, so --

[CROSSTALK]

-- I just rebuke the pride of AA because their pride is very high, but I thank God for them because they do a good work.

[CROSSTALK]

And they have helped a lot of people, but their pride is very high, and they are not the only ones who can say first things first or keep it simple or anything like that.

[CROSSTALK]

OK. Is it on pause?

[INAUDIBLE]

It came out of my spirit though. I never had that, consciously thinking, plumbing breaking means witchcraft, but I felt like something evil, sometimes, when I would try to flush the toilet, and it starts to overflow. I know it sounds crazy.

It sounds crazy, but [CROSSTALK]

But there was no legitimate reason why it would be like that, and I would say, no, in the name of Jesus, you go down, and it would go down, you know. Just take authority over the plumbing.

Yeah.

[?You have?] -- and I heard -- actually, the Hunters to- -- were talking about that [CROSSTALK]

Really? They have a revelation of that?

[CROSSTALK]

The Hunters have a nat- -- international ministry, yeah.

Yeah, to take authority over the plumbing. I was reading it in one of their books.

Yeah.

That I have had to do that before. It looked like it was going to completely overflow, and I would look at it, and it was like I knew it was evil. It was not just a natural thing.

Yeah.

And I would say I rebuke you. You go down [UNINTELLIGIBLE] immediately, it would go down.

Yeah.

It does not happen in every case, but it did happen [CROSSTALK]

It happens. Well, it happens a lot in Africa because Africa -- there are many, many curses upon Africa from years of all the voodoo and the witchcraft that was going on in Africa. There are -- even though there are Christians, they -- now those curses have not been broken yet, and in almost every house that you go into, there is something wrong with the plumbing. It is awesome. And you go in some of these houses, they are beautiful houses, and they are fixed up, and they are decorated, but there is something wrong.

[CROSSTALK] latest facilities.

-- with the -- they have the latest facilities, but they do not work.

[CROSSTALK]

And -- yeah, and their plumbing broke, yeah.

[CROSSTALK]

Yeah, and that is in the Unites States already, and their plumbing broke be -- in case we did not make it clear, when Rita and I were there, there was a lot of spiritual power came down. God really moved, and a lot happened, so the response to God moving frequently is, you know, witchcraft comes forth, you know, [?tackle?] witchcraft --