Either way you haven't read my other posts in this thread and is just targeting that specific one if you think I'm talking about all feminists, so I'm going to just ignore the rest of your post for now since I don't feel like reading your posts if you won't read mine.

Eh, that's certainly not the message they send out. From having spent 3 years as a male minority of a class with 20 girls, 3 guys, and plenty of feminist teachers, it's a mere wonder that I managed to retain my view that women deserves more equal treatment. If what you're saying is true, they certainly not doing a very good job with education and the media to spread the message that they're not just focusing on women.

you're simply bailing out because i'm questioning you.
if you aren't talking about all feminists, then why the objections to reading about feminism?

Really though, you're ALWAYS insanely aggressive every time I see you argue something. Not just in this thread, but in other debate threads, and in the sensationalist headlines section. I generally don't like reading your posts due to how it feels like hanging out with the gestapo.

I don't like reading feminist literature, because everything feminism inspired I have read in my life has felt non-relatable and at times offensive.
If you're talking about their whole organization agenda and things, I don't feel like reading those right now because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

I don't like reading feminist literature, because everything feminism inspired I have read in my life has felt non-relatable and at times offensive.
If you're talking about their whole organization agenda and things, I don't feel like reading those right now because it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

what have you read that was "feminist inspired"?
and there is no feminist organization or agenda.
just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.

my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.

it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't necessarily mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.

I think it is time to abolish feminists and praise humanists, which really seek equality between all people. Feminists generally tend to only want the fun stuff of being the stronger gender. They want the same money (which they already earn), and push their agenda further by complaining that there are too few women in the tech industry. Well, everybody can be what he/she wants if he/she is good enough.

But where are the females who clean up the sewers? Or check the chimneys? I still have to see one female construction worker. Where is the equality in that?

Hypocrites. You haven't earned the apples, if you didn't grow the tree.

what have you read that was "feminist inspired"?
and there is no feminist organization or agenda.
just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.

my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.

it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't necessarily mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.

He is dismissing it because the feminists themselves have the wrong definition of feminism. And act accordingly.

just on the basis of pornography alone there's a huge divide in feminist theory, with one side saying pornography is exploitative and wrong and the other side saying pornography is empowering and okay.

Porn is awesome. What are their opinions on gay porn? Is gay porn alright, or is that discriminative towards women? Is it perhaps discriminative towards men? Is it not discriminative towards men, but lesbian porn is? Is lesbian porn alright? Lol, porn is such a fun subject. I love porn.

my point is that you are dismissing feminism based on your misconceptions of what it actually is, and with that you seem so convinced you know what it's about that you aren't even willing to put some time and actually study what the whole feminist shit is about.

My point is simply, if feminists want equality for women and men alike, they are doing a really fucking terrible job telling the world that they aren't just focusing on making women equal with benefits.

it's like the word socialist. calling yourself a socialist doesn't mean that you believe in equality and it doesn't mean you also believe everyone except the lower-class should be milled into fine powder.

Politics make me sad. Organizations doing bad things in the name of good intentions.

My point is simply, if feminists want equality for women and men alike, they are doing a really fucking terrible job telling the world that they aren't just focusing on making women equal with benefits

the world's not gonna listen because the world does the exact same thing you did here, dismiss it and accept only your own stance on it as fact.

i mean you utterly fail to see my point once again because:

Porn is awesome. What are their opinions on gay porn?

didn't i just fucking say that feminism isn't an ideology or agenda? if you wanna know people's opinions on gay porn why don't you go read and find out.

Can you give me a percentage of how many women work as sewer cleaner?
What about the garbage men? Have you ever seen a garbage woman? Why dont feminists complain because that job is sexist and that it needs more women?

please PM me your dumb insults instead of cluttering up the thread with them.
i got it, gestapo, you don't have to say it over and over again.

You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.

Can you give me a percentage of how many women work as sewer cleaner?
What about the garbage men? Have you ever seen a garbage woman? Why dont feminists complain because that job is sexist and that it needs more women?

i don't know? i think that's something you should take up with the person complaining.

You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.

You, and Sigma have the terrible tendency to walk in somewhere and start interrogating people without adding much arguments yourself. I come here for discussions, with you and Sigma it's more like being interrogated by the gestapo. It's aggressive and does not make your posts very pleasant to read.

it's the socratic method dogg. why should i insert new arguments when a. the internet has the answer to any question ever for anyone willing to look it up and b. ~the truth has been in ur heart all along~

All it does is show me that there is simply not enough research, or rather no research done right to determine the actual percentage. As in one country they determine it per yearly salary from "full-time" working people while full-time might not actually be full-time. And in another country per hourly salary, but taking the whole industry into account instead of per-sector. I still feel my percentage is closer to the truth (because of maternity leave, women choosing jobs in less-paying sectors etc) than yours is.

it's the socratic method dogg. why should i insert new arguments when a. the internet has the answer to any question ever for anyone willing to look it up and b. ~the truth has been in ur heart all along~

I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.

I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.

At the end it doesn't matter as women's career and educational choices (which have an effect on how much they make) are most probably heavily influenced by how society sees them. Which is the difference between mine and your percentage. (I think)
I just feel like it comes more from an indirect discrimination which results in women choosing jobs that in comparison pay less than the jobs men are supposed to choose, than that it comes from direct discrimination.

I prefer learning through discussion. If someone tells me to just state my opinion and why I think I'm right, I'm going to state my opinion in a way that does not change how I view my opinion. I learn by being taught, not by being questioned.

"i'm not going to bother to learn about what i'm ham-handedly discussing, instead i will rely on others and then tell them that they are wrong when they give me the facts"

"i'm not going to bother to learn about what i'm ham-handedly discussing, instead i will rely on others and then tell them that they are wrong when they give me the facts"

"I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".

Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.

"I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".

Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.

I don't think I was misreading what they were saying. It's always "women are the victims, men are the culprits", "men have the advantage over women and are physically stronger, but women are more able and therefor stronger than men", "men do not have as much feelings as women and are a lot more insensitive", "men are obsessed with sex while girls like love", "domestic abuse from a man is a lot worse than from a woman because men are physically stronger". That's what people think feminism is about, and that's the message feminism in media sends out. It might not be the true purpose of it all, but it's the message people receive and that some people actually believe in.

People need to get over the idea that only a few people act this way. Good rational feminists working for actual equality and understanding the real message of feminism is fucking RARE. I have not come across many what so ever, it's not the kind of thing they debate about in the newspapers or the things they press on in politics. Feminism is a confused caricature of what it might once have been.

You were not arguing that they have bad PR, and that resulted in what you now know was a false impression. You were arguing that feminists really were what the media taught you they were. If you're going to abandon what you said, at least acknowledge it.

You were not arguing that they have bad PR, and that resulted in what you now know was a false impression. You were arguing that feminists really were what the media taught you they were. If you're going to abandon what you said, at least acknowledge it.

I were arguing that they have bad PR and that they're doing doing a good job presenting themselves as anything different from what the media portrays them as.
The below highlighted message is no less true because of the above statement, they are in no way contradictions. I'm saying that right now, the wackjobs far outnumber the sane people, or at least are better at making their voice heard.

"I don't know how to come up with a counter-argument so I'll just quote one post I don't agree with and call my opponent uneducated".

Like six different people have already explained in great detail how wrong you are but since you're ignoring them I figured a more direct approach might work.

Like I've said before if you were to read my posts, I'm sure their original idea is all good. My argument isn't that they're a group that only cares about women and nothing about men, my argument is that this is the way their actions reflect them to the general public. If they're truly supposed to be fighting for quality between men and women, they are not doing a good job at sending out the message that they care just as much about male oppression as female oppression.

How can anybody be this thick? How do you think you learn about what feminist 'actions' are? Through the same media that is presenting them in a negative light.