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Re: Xaralx progress!

i hope you can understand, what i like to say, because English is not my nativ language (I'm from Germany, if you like to know).

I agree with you: shame on them.

As long as not all players play by someone's rules, it's a unfair game.

I understand your point of view. You see a Company that have created a great kind of Software to make money with it. Thats ok. You also see that this Company like to share a big part of this software with the community, and thats a great Idea. This Company is worry about the posibillity, that they can't make money with their work in the future, if they give every part of this work free. It's ok.

But this is only the perspektiv from the Companies point of view!

Open source developners also like to share their work, but thei like to make their work free aviable for everyone. An yes, thats also ok. But if this Developners wort, for free, on xara xtreme, thei can't be shure that their work ist free aviable for everyone.

But it's not free for Windows users

But, as example, a future version of Linux can break the usability of the closed source component. Only the company have the control if they fix it or not. But companies and Managers can change.

You say, shame about them, because:
- They don't like to work on a Software for free, thats partly cloused Source

- They dont't like to work on a Software, that don't match their point of view what free software is.

- They don't like to work for free on this Software, cause the free linux edition, with his Work can be unuseble, if the company someday lost the interesst in a community edition.

- Under this conditions, they are not willing to work for free to make xara xtreme better, cause of the risk that, in some time, his free work is only aviable in a commercial, closed source product, and they have get no mony for it.

Opens Source developners are not the sklaves of a company. Many examples show, that a cooperation between a company and the community can be a win win situation. but only under conditions, that both sides can apply.

For example, open office is totaly free, but sun can make money with staroffice, it works.

The idea from xara was good, but you can't really think, that somewone have to work on xara for free, if the conditions don't match theire interrests.

Somewhere on this forum i read, some time ago, that the open source modell isn't fair. I think, thats wrong. Many Open Source Developners have get a Job, cause a Company like theire Work. Many of this Companies pay for Open Source Developners, cause they use theire software and like to help with money, to make this software better.

Open Source ist not better or lesser than closed source software. But the idea is a very different. Thats like "Share" against "Get". Both is ok, and in both systems many People can live from their work.

I hope you Guys can understand both sides, than we all can learn something for the future

Re: Xaralx progress!

I'm glad that you found the time to study the threads about Xara LX as an Open Source project. Unfortunately you get something wrong:

Originally Posted by Tarabaz

You say, shame about them, because:
- ... [wrong conclusions]

I said "shame on them" in regards to jbus post #30, in which he complained about companies who don't spend a Cent to Open Source projects. So, shame on these profiteers.

But in order to come back to reality: I don't believe, that very much companies are spending money. Maybe some big companies like IBM, in order to get a marketing advantage. Getting money from other companies or users is more the "hope" of the Open Source developers, but not the reality. Instead, a lot of my customers are using tons of Open Source Software (Apache Webserver, MySQL database, Mozilla Firefox, ...) and never spend money to them.

Have you spent some Cents? How much? And to which Open Source project?

Originally Posted by Tarabaz

Somewhere on this forum i read, some time ago, that the open source modell isn't fair. I think, thats wrong. Many Open Source Developners have get a Job, cause a Company like theire Work. Many of this Companies pay for Open Source Developners, cause they use theire software and like to help with money, to make this software better.

This was being said in this thread in my post #25. And I've said that the current Open Source reality (in german: "die derzeitige Open Source-Wirklichkeit") is more unfair, than fair from the view of the developers. That's not the same as saying that the Open Source model is unfair by itself. The Companies who are trying to use this Model and change it into their own commercial benefit are the one, who are changing Open Source into a unfair reality ("It's Robin Hood backwards" - see also post #29).

Re: Xaralx progress!

I would really like to see people working on xaralx again. I've financially supported a few OSS projects and even bought a copy of Xara Xtreme Pro to help support the linux version. I'm really disappointed that all development on it has pretty much stopped, but I can understand it from a company perspective.

Re: Xaralx progress!

I actually wouldn't mind to pay for software on the Linux system.
For me this is not about getting everything for free and see that you can get just as good programs for free.

My reason for moving from the other OS to Linux was all about getting a stable OS, and hopefully in the future buying the software that I used to use under the other OS.

I also hope that development of Xara pics up.

Another idea could be to change the name and leave the Linux-version to the community (allowing forks and what not). It will either live or not live, but then it is all up to the community to keep the development alive.

Re: Xaralx progress!

It looks like the usual and predictable failure of the open source scheme.
You see, the open source was invented as model of developing software by programmers for programmers. Generally speaking to unite all the sources made by everyone.
The problem is that programmers tend to develop software that they need or want or like to develop.
And here's what we have - artists prefer XaraLX, programmers prefer Inkscape...
Open source is generally not the best approach at developing software. It lacks the regulating factor. In commercial model the market always balances demand and proposition. So that interest of consumers rules the software development. No such thing exists in open source world. If the demand is represented by the non programming group, it will never be properly fulfilled.
Look at the open source software range. Developer tools and system software prevail in enormous variety comparing to commercial world. While the application software is extremely poor, badly developed and of low quality if present at all, comparing to commercial world.
There's simply no motivation for programmers to develop software the way users want it to be, so they develop it the way they want it to be. Good if users and programmers interests are similar, like in case of OS user interfaces or office software, but very bad if they are different, and even worse if there are not enough programmers interested in subject to develop a project.
It's like a communism - it works only when everyone is a communist. Open source really works only for programmers. And it may become a generally acceptable model only in case if all users became programmers. Which is not very likely. Until then, the most effective regulating factor is a market, and so the demand is best covered with commercial software.
XaraLX is just a one of many painful proofs of this old well known truth.