At this point, Carcillo is a better hockey player than Hartnell. However I hope Hartnell can step up.

Come on now... I know Hartnell hasnt been the best, but Carcillo a better hockey player? Carcillo has played half the season on the first line... and barely has 20 points. Hartnell has been ****** all season, and has twice the amount +3

Come on now... I know Hartnell hasnt been the best, but Carcillo a better hockey player? Carcillo has played half the season on the first line... and barely has 20 points. Hartnell has been ****** all season, and has twice the amount +3

Come on now... I know Hartnell hasnt been the best, but Carcillo a better hockey player? Carcillo has played half the season on the first line... and barely has 20 points. Hartnell has been ****** all season, and has twice the amount +3

Carcillo has been doing his job better then Hartnell has been doing his and at a lot lower cost. So I'd say that he's been the better player for us this season.

At about 3.1 mil less and 4 less games played, Carcillo is a +4 with 11 goals and 20 points. All while playing on the bottom six for the majority of the year. Hartnell, with four more games played and at 3.1 mil more then Carcillo (about), Hartnell has 14 goals, 44 points, and is a -5. All while playing on the top six for the majority of the season.

Carcillo only has three less goals and a much better +/- while playing with inferior linemates for the most part. All at about a quarter of the cost. He also fights and agitates. Hartnell does not. Hartnell has also been a black hole at offense for large stretches of time during this season while, although Carcillo isn't known for his offensive talent, he has been able to pull out highlight reel goals occasionally.

Hartnell also leads the league in minor penalties IIRC. Sure, Carcillo is among the league leaders in penalty minutes, but a lot of those are from misconducts and fighting. While also dealing with a reputation. Hartnell, meanwhile, leads the league in minor penalties and doesn't fight and I can't recall any game misconducts for him this year. He also doesn't have a bad reputation to contend with. Considering all of those things it's really amazing how many penalty minutes Hartnell has racked up this year.

Not to mention that Carcillo draws penalties and can either play an efficient checking line role or sub-in on the top six. Hartnell isn't special defensively and has sucked in the top six for the most part this year.

At about 3.1 mil less and 4 less games played, Carcillo is a +4 with 11 goals and 20 points. All while playing on the bottom six for the majority of the year. Hartnell, with four more games played and at 3.1 mil more then Carcillo (about), Hartnell has 14 goals, 44 points, and is a -5. All while playing on the top six for the majority of the season.

Carcillo only has three less goals and a much better +/- while playing with inferior linemates for the most part. All at about a quarter of the cost. He also fights and agitates. Hartnell does not. Hartnell has also been a black hole at offense for large stretches of time during this season while, although Carcillo isn't known for his offensive talent, he has been able to pull out highlight reel goals occasionally.

Hartnell also leads the league in minor penalties IIRC. Sure, Carcillo is among the league leaders in penalty minutes, but a lot of those are from misconducts and fighting. While also dealing with a reputation. Hartnell, meanwhile, leads the league in minor penalties and doesn't fight and I can't recall any game misconducts for him this year. He also doesn't have a bad reputation to contend with. Considering all of those things it's really amazing how many penalty minutes Hartnell has racked up this year.

Not to mention that Carcillo draws penalties and can either play an efficient checking line role or sub-in on the top six. Hartnell isn't special defensively and has sucked in the top six for the most part this year.

Sigh. K. Ill be waiting for Carcillo's 50 points next year. Oh and I did look it up, Carcillo played on the Carter-Richards line since Dec 6, 2009. Of course he switched back and forth from that back to Betts line, but for the most part, he was on Richard's line.

Also for the +- thing, Hartnell has faced more supoerior opponents then Carcillo has. Its pretty easy to have a good +. Just look at Betts. Richards is a -3, Gagne -4, Briere -3.

Im not saying Hartnell has been good this year. Far from it. But this whole Carcillo fan club thing seems to be blinding alot of people.

At about 3.1 mil less and 4 less games played, Carcillo is a +4 with 11 goals and 20 points. All while playing on the bottom six for the majority of the year. Hartnell, with four more games played and at 3.1 mil more then Carcillo (about), Hartnell has 14 goals, 44 points, and is a -5. All while playing on the top six for the majority of the season.

Carcillo only has three less goals and a much better +/- while playing with inferior linemates for the most part. All at about a quarter of the cost. He also fights and agitates. Hartnell does not. Hartnell has also been a black hole at offense for large stretches of time during this season while, although Carcillo isn't known for his offensive talent, he has been able to pull out highlight reel goals occasionally.

Hartnell also leads the league in minor penalties IIRC. Sure, Carcillo is among the league leaders in penalty minutes, but a lot of those are from misconducts and fighting. While also dealing with a reputation. Hartnell, meanwhile, leads the league in minor penalties and doesn't fight and I can't recall any game misconducts for him this year. He also doesn't have a bad reputation to contend with. Considering all of those things it's really amazing how many penalty minutes Hartnell has racked up this year.

Not to mention that Carcillo draws penalties and can either play an efficient checking line role or sub-in on the top six. Hartnell isn't special defensively and has sucked in the top six for the most part this year.

Hartnell definitely has a bad reputation.

Voted #3 dirtiest player in the league by his peers, if I recall correctly, and has earned himself zero benefit of the doubt in any questionable goaltender contact for the rest of his life.

I guarantee you he is a guy that refs look out for while he's on the ice, everyone knows he gets his shots in any scrum/bit of contact (see: phantom call on being checked by Crosby for a result of his rep for that).

You're also making a good case for why Carcillo is more valuable. That doesn't mean he is a better hockey player.

Carcillo doesn't have the tools to put up the kind of points Hartnell has in the past, and has played significant time with our better lines this year. Hartnell is the better player; Carcillo is BY FAR the more valuable player this year.

Carcillo has improved immensely overall this season as compared to his play after his acquisition last year. I said I didn't want him around unless that happened, and it did, so I'm glad to have him. He clearly does a pretty damn good job drawing penalties, but I have to say...he seriously dives and embellishes about as much as any player I have ever watched. I am regularly shocked by his ability to fool the refs. Maybe it's because I watch him play so much, but I think a lot of his acting isn't even that good...yet it often works, so hey, who am I to complain I guess.

I find it funny though to see Flyers fans go nuts over opponents diving and at the same time praise Carcillo's handiwork. I'm one who generally isn't a fan of diving whether it's my team or not. I'm not too pleased when opponents do it, nor am I too pleased when Carcillo does it. Sure, when I played I embellished a bit at the right times, and I expect all players to do so. You'd be dumb not to in certain situations. But the extremes Carcillo often takes it to I don't have a whole lot of respect for.

Sigh. K. Ill be waiting for Carcillo's 50 points next year. Oh and I did look it up, Carcillo played on the Carter-Richards line since Dec 6, 2009. Of course he switched back and forth from that back to Betts line, but for the most part, he was on Richard's line.

Also for the +- thing, Hartnell has faced more supoerior opponents then Carcillo has. Its pretty easy to have a good +. Just look at Betts. Richards is a -3, Gagne -4, Briere -3.

Im not saying Hartnell has been good this year. Far from it. But this whole Carcillo fan club thing seems to be blinding alot of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infidelappel

Hartnell definitely has a bad reputation.

Voted #3 dirtiest player in the league by his peers, if I recall correctly, and has earned himself zero benefit of the doubt in any questionable goaltender contact for the rest of his life.

I guarantee you he is a guy that refs look out for while he's on the ice, everyone knows he gets his shots in any scrum/bit of contact (see: phantom call on being checked by Crosby for a result of his rep for that).

You're also making a good case for why Carcillo is more valuable. That doesn't mean he is a better hockey player.

Carcillo doesn't have the tools to put up the kind of points Hartnell has in the past, and has played significant time with our better lines this year. Hartnell is the better player; Carcillo is BY FAR the more valuable player this year.

If I had to pick one to boot, it'd be Hartnell, though.

You guys seem to be confusing who has been the better hockey player over his career (or in other words who has proven himself to be the better hockey player) with what I'm trying to say which is that Carcillo has been better for us this year thus he's been the better hockey player for us this year. There's a big difference between the two.

Hartnell definitely does have a reputation, but it's nowhere near as bad as Carcillo's, at least when it comes to refs. It doesn't really matter what other players think of Hartnell since it's the refs that make the calls.

Sigh. K. Ill be waiting for Carcillo's 50 points next year. Oh and I did look it up, Carcillo played on the Carter-Richards line since Dec 6, 2009. Of course he switched back and forth from that back to Betts line, but for the most part, he was on Richard's line.

Also for the +- thing, Hartnell has faced more supoerior opponents then Carcillo has. Its pretty easy to have a good +. Just look at Betts. Richards is a -3, Gagne -4, Briere -3.
Im not saying Hartnell has been good this year. Far from it. But this whole Carcillo fan club thing seems to be blinding alot of people.

We're not a fan club. We just recognize who's earning their paycheck. Carcillo is and Hartnell isn't. Carcillo has been on and off Richards line, mostly off but he's illed in admirably for a guy that makes 5x less than Hartnell. This isn't to bash Scotty because he does go out and work his ass off. His problem is and always will be his discipline, not his finish or effort. He is a better top liner or 2nd liner than Dan but easily more replaceable than Knuble was.