Incidentally, I am going to take a few hours off to watch the Italy-Uruguay match. If, when I come back, I find out that I have to clean up this thread, I'm going to time people out. No need to make my life difficult.

Also, I'd like to remind people that this is not the thread or forum in which to discuss moderation decisions.

Thanks. Good luck to both Italy (the team I've loved and hated since I was a kid) and Uruguay alike.

Is this the navy grenadine/gauze you were talking about? Exquisite Trimmings had plenty of them on sale as well last year, including the yellow one. I'm pretty sure it's not vintage. I'm ok with that, as I got it for a good price, but I feel bad for people who paid a premium because they were told it was vintage.

Anyways, this debate will continue to go on for as long as Gianni doesn't identify which silks are vintage and which ones aren't. Angry customers will arise every so often, as they'll understandably feel duped, and this might hurt the the trustworthiness of the AV concept in the long run.

* the posts with pictures and a video explaining the differences between inkjet and screen printed silks? Where, apart from people in the trade outside of this forum, also resident experts chimed in? Do you really need additional prove that the vintage tie and pocket square he sold me are inkjet printed?

I may have missed that. The only video I saw posted was in italian

* the posts where Gianni was caught passing off a 2 year old fabric from a special garza run that he did for me and a friend in 2012 as a unique and extinct vintage fabric he would lovingly call "the grenadine princess"? Whilst he could have easily done a rerun, but he clearly deemed it better for his business model to pass it off as a distinct vintage fabric.

This is one of the reasons I initially took Gianni's side in the debate. When I looked through the posts I saw that what happened was:

1- He sold you a reprint which he told you was a reprint and which he told you he would need a certain number of people to order.

2- you and 1 or 2 friends ordered.

3- later you saw someone else wearing the same tie and asked Gianni if it was the same silk and if someone could order more

4- Gianni said there was none left (or enough for 1, I cannot recall). He called it the "grenadine princess" but he did not call it "vintage" (I am happy to stand corrected if I missed this though, please point it out)

5- You arranged a special order of the same fabric through Cappelli. Cappelli says he can make the order BUT he needs to order at least 6 meters which would be enough for 5 7 fold ties.

6- To me this means that if Gianni made the special order for you and t4 3 years ago how would have needed to order enough for at least 5 ties. You took 2 ties so he had enough left in stock for 3 more. This matches his claim that there was a limited amount of fabric left. If he wanted to get more he would have to order another 6 meters. This is obviously something he does not want to do unless there is significant interest (he offered to make the order for the navy/orange tie only after 4 or 5 people posted saying that they would want to purchase the tie).

* the posts with pictures where Gianni identified an Adamley tie that he sold when he was starting out as a 70 year old Italian silk, whilst that silk was in fact about 5 year old?

This complies with my (and Dieworkwear's) theory that he probably knows as much about silk as you do.If he bought it from a vendor who told him it was old italian silk and it looked nice and old fashioned he probably believed it. I'm not saying this is a good look for him. But I'm saying he may not be dishonest and many of his fabrics likely are vintage.

* the posts with pictures of Gianni's initial offerings where some 70 fabrics were identified ordered by someone else, some being exclusive designs?

I must have missed this. Which thread is it in? can you please link me to it?

* the posts with pictures of the many fabrics that Gianni is still selling to date that he already had in his collection since we met him in 2011, making it quite hard to believe that all these are vintage silks of very limited supply as he claimed [4 ties maximum]? [I'm not talking about his run of the mill garza offerings!]

I there are some very obvious ones that are almost certainly reprints (paisley in the circle comes to mind). There has always been an assumption that some of his fabrics are reprints. If Gianni has stated that those fabrics particularly are vintage or that none of his non basic grenadines a not vintage then i agree he is almost certainly lying. Once again if he has please let me know.

* the posts with pictures of the vintage navy printed gauze tie of which he seems to have been selling at least 10 to 15 times?

I have always thought that there were a lot of these around but maybe he had a particularly large roll. I personally presumed that they were still vintage because a- I have never seen this type of gauze fabric for sale anywhere else (though @t4phage has now said he has seen it elsewhere); b- the fabric certainly does 'feel vintage' to my inexperienced hand, it is very soft and delicate; and c- when I tried to order my ties I asked after the navy version and was told that it was all gone, so he obviously isn't making anymore and it was a limited amount of fabric even if it was alot more than 4 ties.

* the posts where a beige/purple cashmere fabric he told us in 2011 was only sufficient for 1 tie later on turned up amongst Simon Crompton's offerings enough for another 3 ties, making it seem like has been actually willfully been faking the scarcity of some of his offerings?

I obviously either missed this or interpreted it differently as I do not recall. I'll go back through this thread when i time and look for it.

* the post whit all the links I neatly put together for you where Gianni claimed to be selling vintage only fabrics [most importantly here on SF in his AV thread but also on multiple blogs]?

Come on @Ovlov. It's way, way too easy to dismiss all this as "evidence presented has come in the form of "I spoke to my tailor/Cappelli/some guy I know". It is clearly not. The stories by my tailor and Patrizio Cappelli were basically to explain how this whole thing started. You may or may not believe that we spoke to people in the tie silk trade. You may or may not believe they are experts. But can I ask you, do you believe @dieworkwear has been speaking with his Japanese contact? Do you trust what he has been posting here is in fact the response he got from his Japanese contact? Assuming you believe that, please explain to me why you either seem to be sceptical believing @T4phage and I spoke with people in the tie silk trade in Italy and the UK, or that we are not really posting here what they told us? Or do you think all these people are out for Gianni's blood?

I believe both of you. I have no reason to believe one over the other but you are both reporting on what your fabric specialist friends are telling you and you and @dieworkwear appear to be reporting different things.

Please also explain to me the following. If Gianni has indeed been honest and telling the truth as you still want to believe
then why Gianni hasn't he made a small effort and just identified the non-vintage fabrics as @Mimo and @Mschapiro suggested some two weeks ago now? Doesn't @Mimo's recent post really say it all?

Yep. I agree this is a serious problem. I want to believe Gianni is telling the truth, though I am not entirely convinced. What I am also concerned about though is that the legitimate concerns are muddied by the many ill thought accusations and snide remarks that do nothing but make his detractors look like a bunch of hacks with a personal vendetta.

Edit by admin: C'mon guys, you know where the line was drawn, and the stuff I editted out was over the line. At very least, be civil.

The fact that Gianni has not attempted any damage control save for the one lone post, which had little detail is puzzling. The fact that he has not reached out to people who are disillusioned, who received faulty ties or who have expressed concern over his customer service is even more troubling. What are people left to think about this head in the sand approach. The correct think to do is meet this head on. Contact the people who are involved rather than leaving it to fester. Sure the language barrier is an obstacle but an intermediary can't be found? C'mon! Has such an offer been made? Had it been ignored? This is way past the farce stage. Does anyone here employ this kind if strategy in life? Ignore it and it will eventually go away? Maybe so but then they have a whole lot of aggro going on in their lives, no?

Adding to this farce is the roaring silence from Gianni's end yet he has the presence of mind to post fits from Pitti to his Facebook. How does that mitigate any of the bad blood that people have here for this situation?

.......This is one of the reasons I initially took Gianni's side in the debate. When I looked through the posts I saw that what happened was:
1- He sold you a reprint which he told you was a reprint and which he told you he would need a certain number of people to order.
2- you and 1 or 2 friends ordered.
3- later you saw someone else wearing the same tie and asked Gianni if it was the same silk and if someone could order more
4- Gianni said there was none left (or enough for 1, I cannot recall). He called it the "grenadine princess" but he did not call it "vintage" (I am happy to stand corrected if I missed this though, please point it out)
5- You arranged a special order of the same fabric through Cappelli. Cappelli says he can make the order BUT he needs to order at least 6 meters which would be enough for 5 7 fold ties.
6- To me this means that if Gianni made the special order for you and t4 3 years ago how would have needed to order enough for at least 5 ties. You took 2 ties so he had enough left in stock for 3 more. This matches his claim that there was a limited amount of fabric left. If he wanted to get more he would have to order another 6 meters. This is obviously something he does not want to do unless there is significant interest (he offered to make the order for the navy/orange tie only after 4 or 5 people posted saying that they would want to purchase the tie).........

i strongly suggest
you go back
and read it
again

you claim
to have taught
esl
??

you seem
to display
a surprising
capacity
for selective
recall

Quote:

Originally Posted by ovlov

.....I believe both of you. I have no reason to believe one over the other but you are both reporting on what your fabric specialist friends are telling you and you and @dieworkwear appear to be reporting different things.

@T4phage
I don't KNOW that the fabric of my first tie is vintage but is certainly different from any I have seen outside of the Passaggio forum. I have posted the fabrifc below (not my tie but same pattern). I presume that since you have seen/purchased many PC ties in the past you will be familiar with it.
Please tell me. If it is indeed not vintage, where does it come from and how can I get more? I personally prefer this weave to the common grenadine weaves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loathing

That is indeed a since tie. Haven't seen one quite like it anywhere else, but Drakes does sell ties in a very similar weave, usually in their summer collections. In store only, I think; haven't seem them online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T4phage

it is a gauze
not a garza/grenadine
even i
have been
lazy
and calling it
a garza

kiton has it
and i have
seen it
being sold
at anna matuozzo
several years
ago
i think@edmorel
has one
abeit plain
from matuozzo

it is an
italian fabric
teh drakes
is a panama
weave
made by
adamley
and very nice
it is too
with a
nice crisp
hand

compared to
teh italian
panama which
is soft
silky
and floppy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claghorn

Oh, as far as that navy grenadine that everyone has: at one point BnT was carrying three of them for sale.

I too thought this was some rare fabric. Vanda has this similar "guaze" in the same "weave" as this listed as their "Japanese answer to grenadine" (Note, different print, very cool print though)

The fact that Gianni has not attempted any damage control save for the one lone post, which had little detail is puzzling. The fact that he has not reached out to people who are disillusioned, who received faulty ties or who have expressed concern over his customer service is even more troubling. What are people left to think about this head in the sand approach. The correct think to do is meet this head on. Contact the people who are involved rather than leaving it to fester. Sure the language barrier is an obstacle but an intermediary can't be found? C'mon! Has such an offer been made? Had it been ignored? This is way past the farce stage. Does anyone here employ this kind if strategy in life? Ignore it and it will eventually go away? Maybe so but then they have a whole lot of aggro going on in their lives, no?

Adding to this farce is the roaring silence from Gianni's end yet he has the presence of mind to post fits from Pitti to his Facebook. How does that mitigate any of the bad blood that people have here for this situation?