Does anybody have a seat plan for Air Berlin as to how their Upper/Business is laid out. If the additional aircraft are staying in the fleet and we get more flights from Manchester that's fine. Otherwise if we are to receive an inferior product to our friends down South will this be reflected in lower fares!!!

David1946 wrote:Does anybody have a seat plan for Air Berlin as to how their Upper/Business is laid out. If the additional aircraft are staying in the fleet and we get more flights from Manchester that's fine. Otherwise if we are to receive an inferior product to our friends down South will this be reflected in lower fares!!!

A quick search of t'interweb reveals this article in which both a plan and pictures are embedded.

Thanks for the information. I assume looking at the diagram and pictures that all Business class seats have aisle access. If not we may be looking for other carriers out of Manchester which would be a shame after 12 years of flying only VS. As to fares I have found Man fares about the same as those from the south although I haven't used the JFK flights but that may be down to competition from Thomas Cook.

David1946 wrote:Thanks for the information. I assume looking at the diagram and pictures that all Business class seats have aisle access. If not we may be looking for other carriers out of Manchester which would be a shame after 12 years of flying only VS. As to fares I have found Man fares about the same as those from the south although I haven't used the JFK flights but that may be down to competition from Thomas Cook.

I think those who are flying from MAN on the aforementioned dates/routes in PE will beg to differ. Likewise in UC if they had their hearts set on the UCS seat and the bar.

Although I imagine this won't necessarily be good news if you're in PE now facing a downgrade, the only good thing about this is it should hopefully mean no flights are cancelled as a result of the ongoing 787 engine issues. In the case of MAN, given that VS' competition on all bar ATL is Thomas Cook (who are expanding their long-haul presence at MAN every year to the point where they're effectively MAN's local long-haul airline) and you would think is a prime candidate for a LCC like Norwegian to start long-haul flights, I think credit is due for at least maintaining a presence when the easier option might have been to cancel and put passengers on flights ex-LHR - something AA tend to do if their MAN flights are seriously delayed/cancelled for whatever reason. I should also add that Thomas Cook have at least one A330 on long-term hire from Air Tanker which has a different hard product to the 'native' A330 fleet, major one being lack of seat-back IFE.

I presume RR or Boeing or the leaseco (if the 787's are leased) are picking up the tab for these hire-ins?

Sealink wrote:The assumption that VS UC is superior to the likes of the Air Berlin product is funny.Food on DL is head and shoulders above VS.Are Lingus transatlantic business class is actually fantastic.

VS could not have foreseen a wing clip and that 787 issues would still be ongoing. Maybe Air Berlin’s planes will surprise you.

Saying one airline product is better than another though is irrelevant.

The issue here is that you are buying a VS product and not getting that particular VS product if you end up flying on most of the MAN routes.

we’ve made a few changes to our flying programme because of an industry-wide supply issue with the Rolls Royce engines we use on our Boeing 787 Dreamliners. While some of these aircraft are temporarily parked, we’ve been working to make sure our customers’ travel plans can continue with certainty and in comfort. To support this, we intend to add four A330-200 aircraft to our fleet. They’ll be Virgin Atlantic aircraft, operated by our own pilots and world class cabin crew, delivering our own service and experience. Whilst the aircraft won't initially have a Premium cabin, we will be looking to fit them in 2018. Those customers effected by the lack of Premium will be contacted and options will be offered,

Just checked our Upper Class booking on VS110 from Atlanta on March 26th. Originally it was a VS A330 then a 747 but has now changed to the replacement A330-200. Our outbound in February is still, at the moment, a VS A330 and will, hopefully, stay that way as we are in PE.

Further update today now also impacting LGW routes and more MAN routes:

we need to let you know about a few more changes to our flying programme because of an industry-wide supply issue with the Rolls Royce engines we use on our Boeing 787 Dreamliners.

While some of these aircraft are temporarily parked, we’ve been working to make sure our customers’ travel plans can continue with certainty and in comfort. To support this, we intend to add four A330-200 aircraft to our fleet – they’ll be Virgin Atlantic aircraft, operated by our own pilots and world class cabin crew, delivering our own service and experience:

Sealink wrote:The assumption that VS UC is superior to the likes of the Air Berlin product is funny.Food on DL is head and shoulders above VS.Are Lingus transatlantic business class is actually fantastic.

VS could not have foreseen a wing clip and that 787 issues would still be ongoing. Maybe Air Berlin’s planes will surprise you.

Saying one airline product is better than another though is irrelevant.

The issue here is that you are buying a VS product and not getting that particular VS product if you end up flying on most of the MAN routes.

Totally agree mitchja, you are NOT getting a VS product from MAN using these aircraft.

Prior to the airlines demise, I flew Air Berlin on a number of occasions to and from, err.............. oh yes, Berlin. They are bog standard 200s - not unlike Easyjet - VS they are not.

Incidentally, the VS11 on 30 May is still being shown as a 787. Is this possible, he gasped?

So far when you do a dummy booking there is still a B747-400 showing between Atlanta/New York JFK for Summer 2017, as well as the B747’s on the two MCO runs. The A330-300 is also still listed for certain flights. However only on the MCO and New York flights operated by the B747 can PE be booked. On the Atlanta runs, still listed as either A330-300 or B747-400, PE can’t be selected, so it looks like Virgin intend to switch these to A330-200 (minus PE) in due course.

I was under the impression from a number of other forum discussions that Manchester flights to Atlanta, Boston, San Franscico and New York would become A330-200 from May for the forseable future (12 months minimum) minus PE (at least for the intial services this summer). The Virgin press release confused the issue somewhat as it suggests that these flights will only suffer a loss of PE (A330-200 switch) until the end of May.

Clearly the dummy bookings on the system imply that PE will be cut on flights throughout 2017, with the exception of MCO and some of the JFK runs, where one of the 2 “based” B747’s is deployed.

So far G-VWND (ex D-ALPF) and G-VMIK (ex D-ALPB) two ex LTU/AB aircraft (15/16 years old) have been added to the UK register, with two more additions anticipated in due course. I know that AB announced they would refit a refurbished business class product in 2017. I know that it made at least one of the ex LAN Air Berlin aircraft G-ABXE but I'm unsure if it made the ex-LTU aircraft Virgin have acquired.

The difference in the two products doesn't seem huge but it included reupholstered seats, minus Air Berlin logo, and a change in the side panels from blue to white and a better screen position etc. This first review shows the old product >> https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/air-be ... ss-review/ and this review shows the new product on G-ABXE >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng92rCL1XvI.

Both the new and old product have the same 19 seat arrangement in business class, so the new Virgin seat maps for the A330-200 don't really help much in regards to this. I'm imagining that Virgin may reupholster the seats if they haven't recently been upgraded. Some of the AB reviews commented that the old seat material was showing its age and I can't see how they can easily hide the Air Berlin logo either. All in all it looks a decent product in both Business class and Economy.

It really would be nice if Virgin could reupholster the seats, add some LED mood lighting and give the planes a full metallic red paint job (not just a Red Virgin tail and simple titles like they did with the 767 years ago). I've no idea if all of this would be feasible in the time frame but it does look like they have 3 months or so before they enter service. With the airframes currently just sitting around in Shannon etc there seems plenty of opportunity.

getinjonathan wrote:It's highly probable that these AB aircraft will be retrofitted. They'll be a part of the fleet into 2019 and beyond.

Until they are, I 'aint flying VS from either MAN or LGW and risking either not getting the cabin I want (i.e.Premium Economy; which I use a lot) or the VS J product I'd expect. Looks like the MCO route is going to be the only cert route still using a 744 from MAN in 2018.

Until the cabins are fully retrofitted with VS cabins, I really really don't understand how VS can keep saying these are VS aircraft when they clear are not?

Unfortunately it looks like we're affected - booked onto VS89/90 in PE using the Amex vouchers, flying in June .

Doing a dummy booking last night only EC or UC were for sale, although the seat map (both on the dummy booking and MMB) shows PE. I've read somewhere (maybe it was on FlyerTalk?) that systems won't reflect the changes until 19th December.

Think we can all agree It's a shambles, As someone who uses VS109/110 regularly I will also be affected by this. I don't get why they are going after A330 200's because it has fewer seats than the 300. Also the Air Berlin 330's have Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines that are not exactly the most fuel efficient. I can now see why Delta cancelled their 787 order, It might be a good idea for Virgin management to double down on one particular aircraft type from 2020 onwards. Because all these costs start to add up remember they spent 30 million on the A330 refurbishment. Passengers who travel though Manchester know we have never had the full VS experience. Still yet to have a clubhouse and now they are taking the aircraft that are newly refurbished back to London. That says it all to me, As loyal passengers all we ask for is continuity and that is simply something we're not getting.

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