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Ok, I'm *not* going to comment on the OP's name (Juicey Lucy) as anything ummm... suggestive of anything...

I've been to a "strip club" twice in my life... once, 2-3 weeks after I turned 21, me and 2 friends all turned 21 within weeks of each other, "just because we could now". And once, I walked in with the boss, spent 5 mins maybe, was a snowstorm outside, walked out and drove home. I really don't get what the big deal is, did nothing for me... then again, I've had women wanting to "cybersex"/"phonesex" me, and personally no... does squat for me. Some people can get into that stuff, I can't... whatever. The real question is, do you *trust* them... if you don't, then you shouldn't be in a relationship with them, period. If this is even a question about "the man you love" - then you *shouldn't* be in a relationship with that person. Either you trust them, or you don't. If its bringing questions, then you don't trust them, and you probably *shouldn't* be in a relationship with them. Simple answer, not always so easy to do.

That's just it, if your in a committed relationship, then why, please tell me, do you need to go to a strip club when you have someone at home that can do the trick?

I'm merely defending ones right to live the way they choose to live;

I haven't frequented such an establishment in at least 6 years myself. It's a waste of my money, and I don't need it. Since getting sober, I've had a virtual explosion in relationships. Almost my own personal sexual revolution. I've been *busier* in the last 5 -1/2 yrs than the preceding 18 yrs when I was a stumbling, stinking, low-life drunk. No, I'm not a whore either. I've had some very good long term relationships also. Ultimately that's what I seek. But I have no *need* for strip clubs.

The thing is, men are very visual, we love visual variety. It's not about screwing some hot stripper, it's about the fact that we are prone towards physical attraction. I can still understand the desire, even after having been in committed relationships. Men don't just stop looking at other women when we're with one woman. It's not natural, unless you want to gouge our eyes out. We still look, we just aren't allowed to touch. I do tend to have to nearly put the *blinders* on when I'm in a relationship. It's hard to just control it. It's not natural not to look for men.

Some men that are in relationships just go to get it out off their systems. Their S.O.'s allow them to go because they understand their man's natural need to look. We don't stop you women from looking around at the mall do we? It's nearly the same thing.

MikeM1968 You also wrote "The other thing you have no control over is that we men will look at other women REGARDLESS of how attractive our S.O. is to us. It's not a matter of how attracted we are to you, it's just the way we are. It's instinctual for us. We're programmed that way.

You're just giving men no credit for being able to keep it in our pants and only take it out for you. You believe you're the one who has to corner the market on it.to me. You're suggesting we have no self control at all. That is a pretty major sign of your insecurity

Read what you just wrote, on one hand you are saying, you bascially can't control yourself oogling at other women because you're wired that way, and then you get your panties in a knot and turn around and say that we are insecure because we are suggesting that you have no self control at all.

Which is it?

And you know I get so tired of hearing "well I'm a man and I'm just wired that way, or programmed that way" No accountability for your actions! It's lame and it gets old really fast, can't you come up with something more original?

Read what you just wrote, on one hand you are saying, you bascially can't control yourself oogling at other women because you're wired that way, and then you get your panties in a knot and turn around and say that we are insecure because we are suggesting that you have no self control at all.

I'm not (as you suggest) getting my panties in a bunch, it's not my issue. I'm not the one having the problem accepting who and what I am. I'm a man, that's just the way I am. It's not an *either* - *or* proposal. I just read many posts suggesting that it's *evil* for a man to go to a strip club, and I'm trying to bring some rational explanation for it. Men look, that's all I'm saying, that's just the way we are.

The fact that you're crying about us being *accountable* for what we do naturally is the problem. Not that I'm here posting the truth.

Again (as I posted in my last response) I don't b_cth when women want to go window shopping at the mall do I? It's the same exact kind of thing. You like to look at clothes, I like to look at women. What's the problem?

Again (as I posted in my last response) I don't b_cth when women want to go window shopping at the mall do I? It's the same exact kind of thing. You like to look at clothes, I like to look at women. What's the problem?

Maybe this is why I don't get the issue with strip clubs. I could care less about clothes, but I am hard pressed not to look at a hot guy who walks by - whether alone or with a date. So I get it. You can be in a really happy, healthy relationship and it doesn't make hot guys any less hot.

Also I wanted to add that regardless of if your boyfriend goes to a strip club, he will look at other women, even if you don't want him too. The more limitations your put on your boyfriend the more likey he will do it behind your back. Regardless if he watches porn online or not he's probably got HBO or something similar, he's going to see naked ladies that aren't you, he's going to probably like it.

The ONE thing that your boyfriend ONLY gets from you is LOVE.

Sex, sexuality, and love are NOT connected, they can work together but they don't need too.

You say "you can't do this" and expect him to listen to you or "behave", if he wanted a woman like that he would probably still live at home with mom.

. I just read many posts suggesting that it's *evil* for a man to go to a strip club, and I'm trying to bring some rational explanation for it

I've read all the posts and I haven't seen anything that hints single, uncommitted men shouldn't go to nudie joints if they please. No one has even suggested that men who are in relationships shouldn't go if their partner is okay with it.

What we are saying is that if patronizing the sex industry is creating a problem in a relationship, and the guy continues to do it, he doesn't value the relationship.

I would say the same thing if a woman spent a great deal of time window shopping at the mall. If she valued window shopping over the happiness of her partner, the relationship is unhealthy.

Neither activity should have such value that it subordinates the good of the relationship.

Sarah I am not telling my bf to do or not to do anything. I let him know my feelings and that I find it disrespectful and allow him to decide what HE wants to do. I think what you said is fine. You have no problems with your guy going to strip club. I do. I can't help my feelings and won't just brush me feelings aside because I feel it is what men should or shouldn't do. No disrespect to anyone who thinks otherwise and who is more open to the whole stripclub scene. I might have more open boundaries about other aspects of my relationship that you don't. Each to their own really.I am not here to put others down am just expressing my own thoughts and feelings.

The thing is, men are very visual, we love visual variety. It's not about screwing some hot stripper, it's about the fact that we are prone towards physical attraction. I can still understand the desire, even after having been in committed relationships. Men don't just stop looking at other women when we're with one woman. It's not natural, unless you want to gouge our eyes out. We still look, we just aren't allowed to touch. I do tend to have to nearly put the *blinders* on when I'm in a relationship. It's hard to just control it. It's not natural not to look for men.

Don't forget the women too! Some of us like to do the exact same thing!

I'm sure that there's some great looking eye candy that you like to look at while you're at work, Gypsy. Just because you don't necessarily see him naked at work, doesn't mean you may think about it.

Also I wanted to add that regardless of if your boyfriend goes to a strip club, he will look at other women, even if you don't want him too. The more limitations your put on your boyfriend the more likey he will do it behind your back.

Exactly. The more restrictions you impose on a person the more likely that it will blow up in your face. The exact thing you fear will happen because your insecurities will feed it. Better to find someone that when you are with them, any need to limit them is minimal at best.

I think it might be less a case of being a 'prude' or worrying about him maybe having sex with one of the strippers..- highly unlikely unless she is also a ho on the side and he pays her..

but of "intelligence" - IMO guys who spend a lot of time at a strip club, especially if they are in a relationship with a woman, who clearly does not like that they do that- is quite stupid.

been to a few, it's quite amusing to me to see most of the guys there that are like little lap-dogs following the strippers around like a bull with a ring in it's nose..

slack-jawed staring in 'wonder'.

a woman I used to work with also stripped part-time; she used to laugh at all the 'pathetic losers' that used to 'worship' her..in her words only men are dumb enough to spend good money to look at something they aren't going to touch..maybe spend some more to get sexually frustrated & worked up, but they aren't going to get any real sexual gratification from her..

VvvvvvvMikeM:

sure, just bring the kids, teach 'em young how women get and allow themselves to be exploited for their gender and their looks for money. Teach your boy that it's acceptable to blow lots of money on hot women. Watch dad drooling over some college girls cleavage and ass while mom cries into her 5th alcoholic beverage to *cope* with the reality of her life LOL Ahhhhh yes, (take a whiff) that's the sweet, sweet smell of dysfunction.

true..teach your girls that it's a waste of time to study or learn anything..that a girl really gets ahead by flaunting her 'assets'..save up for that boob job/tummy tuck, don't waste your money on 'education'....?

Don't forget the women too! Some of us like to do the exact same thing!

I'm sure that there's some great looking eye candy that you like to look at while you're at work, Gypsy. Just because you don't necessarily see him naked at work, doesn't mean you may think about it.

Crap! I've been caught doing this. An ex once told me " I don't care if you look but can you try to keep your jaw from hitting the table when I'm around?" Whoopsie. My bad.

On the other hand, I have actually looked at hot women with guys I dated. I get that other women might be attractive to him, yet he'd still want to be with me. So I just don't find any of that a threat. We both should be able to appreciate beauty from afar....no harm in it.

I can be into my guy 110% and still find other men attractive and appreciate the "male form" if you will. The two aren't related.

Exactly. The more restrictions you impose on a person the more likely that it will blow up in your face. The exact thing you fear will happen because your insecurities will feed it. Better to find someone that when you are with them, any need to limit them is minimal at best.

Too true. I have heard many male friends over the years say they are catching so much heat for being suspected of doing something that it might as well be worth getting yelled at - they figured if they cheated they couldn't get yelled at LESS for it. *shrug*, take that how you want.

Besides, Hooters is a considered a *family establishment* these days. Sure, just bring the kids, teach 'em young how women get and allow themselves to be exploited for their gender and their looks for money. Teach your boy that it's acceptable to blow lots of money on hot women. Watch dad drooling over some college girls cleavage and ass while mom cries into her 5th alcoholic beverage to *cope* with the reality of her life LOL Ahhhhh yes, (take a whiff) that's the sweet, sweet smell of dysfunction. Sorry but that really is going way too far with it, yet that's how they've been marketing places like Hooters in the past several years.

That's extremely -uh- EXTREME. Kids don't need to be deliberately exposed to it, they'll have the game of sex-ploitation shoved in their faces soon enough by society and the media. It's already *there* just waiting for those young-uns to hit puberty. Hopefully some parents have a grip on where it comes from before it happens to teach 'em right. That's right, turn off that TV, get off that computer and go out and play with real people junior.

As far as the rest of the consenting adults, and more back on topic:

What we are saying is that if patronizing the sex industry is creating a problem in a relationship, and the guy continues to do it, he doesn't value the relationship.

I would say the same thing if a woman spent a great deal of time window shopping at the mall. If she valued window shopping over the happiness of her partner, the relationship is unhealthy.

Neither activity should have such value that it subordinates the good of the relationship.

Totally agreed. But the thing is, I'd have zero problem if she just liked looking around at stuff at the mall. I would have a huge problem if she started spending our money like it was in un-limited supply. If she continues to do it, she doesn't value the relationship either. Likewise, I'm sure she'd have a huge problem if I went to strip clubs and had sex with other women. The thing is, I'm not doing that, I'm just looking. Those places have rules against that sort of thing. That's not even allowed.

It's the same as trusting her to look at stuff and not buy it. If I can trust her to look and not spend, then she can trust me to look and not touch. In fact, it's arguable that I'd have more justification for not trusting her with our credit card at the mall. There's no rules against her spending it. They encourage it.

Crap! I've been caught doing this. An ex once told me " I don't care if you look but can you try to keep your jaw from hitting the table when I'm around?" Whoopsie. My bad.

Haha DJ! Something like that has happened to me too!

On the other hand, I have actually looked at hot women with guys I dated. I get that other women might be attractive to him, yet he'd still want to be with me. So I just don't find any of that a threat. We both should be able to appreciate beauty from afar....no harm in it.

Hot people, male or female, warrant extra eye candy regardless of whether we'd sex them or not. They're just beautiful. I love to appreciate beautiful people, surroundings and things. It's natural. Though, I can't help but appreciate the males ones a lot more!

I can be into my guy 110% and still find other men attractive and appreciate the "male form" if you will. The two aren't related.

Exactly. Same here. Just because I'm enjoying what's walking past me or what have you doesn't mean I don't enjoy the person I'm with.

^^^^^^^Me thinks he's talking more about the guys on pervert row who aren't there for entertainment so much as to be the slathering neanderthal types. They fall into the same category as guys online who would use the opening line of "wanna fvck?"

As for spending (blowing) money on this form of entertainment, anyone spending copious quantities on any form of entertainment that they can't afford has other issues to deal with. To me, it would be no different than having to spend money on seasons tickets to football (or whatever) games when you can't afford to pay the mortgage. Stupid is stupid whatever way you look at it.

There is some of that egotism at strip clubs, but there is also good-natured, harmless fun based on the magic of sexual arousal being a fine form of entertainment. I suppose if a woman was trying to justify gyrating naked for dollar bills she may well prefer to disdain her customers, and thereby defend her self-esteem. It beats feeling degraded. I think it's a shame that anyone would work at something where they disliked their customers, be it stripping or whatever else. You can tell the haters from the friendly ones. The idea is to have fun. Like anything else it can have an ugly side, whether it is because the man is frustrated or the woman resents her job. Then for a couple, how they see it can range from jealousy to indifference to sharing a pastime. But only I know the real truth that ought to apply to everyone. And I'm not telling.

I don't have a problem with my guy going to a strip club every now and then. If it's several days a week or every day, and he's now broke and can't pay his bills, then there's a problem. If he actually gets 'lucky' with a stripper, there that's a problem too.