My argument: If there's no potential for bloodshed in the normal course of gameplay, it's not a sport. Hence, figure skating and ping pong are sports; golf is not, never was, and never will be a sport, unless they introduce body checking on the putting green. And, c'mon, who wouldn't LOVE to see that?!!!!!

My argument: If there's no potential for bloodshed in the normal course of gameplay, it's not a sport. Hence, figure skating and ping pong are sports; golf is not, never was, and never will be a sport, unless they introduce body checking on the putting green. And, c'mon, who wouldn't LOVE to see that?!!!!!

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There are other ways for blood to be shed in golf, even within the current set of rules.

Yes, I know this from first-hand experience. No, I will not share my story.

Like pickup games? What is a referee or an umpire if not a judge? The ref/ump determine who gets points/how many just like the judges in skating etc.

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Right I get the point you are trying to make but my point is you can play those sports without a judge or ref. Kids and adults do it all the time. I played lots of basketball that way, often at pretty high intensity levels. You don't need a judge to participate in the sport of basketball

Also while lots of organized sports have umps, refs or line judges, and their interpretation of the rules might effect the final score, it's the final score that matters, not the judge's opinion about how good your post move looked or whether or not your drive to the hoop merited a 9.7 or an 8.5.

Hard to compare say Olympic figure skating where you have incredible athleticism grace and training to snowboard events... strap a monkey on a board and jump around where there is almost zero athleticism (more dare devilish) and with training for some involves smoking weed. Not knocking snowboarding, but to argue that its athletic is tough to do.

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Never strapped into a snowboard have you?

I mean really, you can complain about snowboarding in the same way as figure skating or gymnastics since it's got judging involved but it's a pretty amazing sport and the athletes are incredibly talented/fit/brave/whatever.

Go out and go through the half pipe, don't even try going up the walls, and then tell us someone doing backflips 20ft up in the air above the lip of those giant walls (which are mostly ice and insanely scary when you start getting up to the top of them) is not athletic.

All 3 of these sports have incredible athleticism and talent. Realistically all 3 of them seemingly require more practice and dedication than any of the ball sports.

Most kids are able to throw/hit a ball very quickly when they start playing a sport. You see the payoff right away and then you just keep getting gradually better until people are at the pro level.

Most people who try snowboarding, or figure skating, or gymnastics will never get anywhere near the level to even get near doing anything like what the elites are doing. The persistence required is immense. And I'd argue it's largest for gymnastics cause it's just a ridiculous slog and the beginner level stuff is not as novel as gliding over snow or ice.

99.99% of the public will never have the strength or athleticism to even get up onto a gymnastics bar or be able to do anything but hang from the rings. If you ever tried it even once as a kid you can never lose respect for those athletes, even if the sport is flawed by judging. Most of us would hang from the bar/rings limply and not even have the strength to do anything at all other than fall off after 30 seconds.

The "game" of golf certainly changed when Tiger ,with his great skill , also turned heads with how fit/conditioned he was.

And yet today ? Fat asses still win tournaments.

Golf is billiards on grass...

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Tiger elevated the game there is no doubt about that. While some fat asses do win tournaments, it's not many, most of the top players in the world are into fitness big time. There are some players today who are every bit as good as Tiger was when he came out on tour. There probably never be another player who will dominate like tiger did because he taught the people who were coming up and admired his play how the game should really be played.

The reason Tiger could dominate so markedly when he came out on tour is that most of the players went about their business like a job, shoot two or three under for two or three days, then may fire off a six under round and win. Everybody was happy. Then Tiger came on the scene and won the U.S. Open 15 shots clear of the field. For quite a while the rest of the PGA was playing for second place. Then a funny thing started happening, newer players who had studied the way Tiger played started gaining a place on tour, and it was all over. Unless they invent some new golfers, or something no one has thought of, no one will dominate like Tiger did again.

Having said that, I doubt Tiger will ever win again, oh he may win a Walmart sponsored tournament, but no majors. Tiger is pumping iron again, but Father Time is gonna grab him by the cajones just like it has Tom Brady, no man is immune from that guy.

I think the #1 failing of "sports" is, that people participate by watching others do whatever it is.

Now, this might make sense in race car driving, stunt diving, the trapeze, bullfighting and prize fight boxing, cage fighting, but when it comes to stick and ball stuff, and most "winter sports", for Goodness Sake get out there and actually engage in the activity. If nothing else, having gotten beaten up actually playing ball might give watching the game after disability or in old age might actually mean something. Once you crash a sled into a tree, luge represents something different.

We didn't have a TV, so we put the skates on and went to the pond and did our own thing. I remember being invited on a Mardi Gras skiing trip to Breckenridge in '82 and I was thinking I didn't really know how to ski - but in 3 days I was the one doing the black courses, not my comrades. I think we were the lucky kids, and once you get to thinking "doing, not watching", it stays with you.

After watching the women's half pipe competition last night, I can see where Max is coming from. Judging is too subjective. Kelly Clark's last run was way better than the score they gave her. The only honest competitions are the ones determined by time or goals. Call officials or refs judges if you want to.

I'm not saying that none of these competitions are sports. The do require incredible athleticism, talent and skill. I just don't think that the competitors get as fair a shake for their efforts as those that compete for time or goals made.

I mean really, you can complain about snowboarding in the same way as figure skating or gymnastics since it's got judging involved but it's a pretty amazing sport and the athletes are incredibly talented/fit/brave/whatever.

Go out and go through the half pipe, don't even try going up the walls, and then tell us someone doing backflips 20ft up in the air above the lip of those giant walls (which are mostly ice and insanely scary when you start getting up to the top of them) is not athletic.

All 3 of these sports have incredible athleticism and talent. Realistically all 3 of them seemingly require more practice and dedication than any of the ball sports.

Most kids are able to throw/hit a ball very quickly when they start playing a sport. You see the payoff right away and then you just keep getting gradually better until people are at the pro level.

Most people who try snowboarding, or figure skating, or gymnastics will never get anywhere near the level to even get near doing anything like what the elites are doing. The persistence required is immense. And I'd argue it's largest for gymnastics cause it's just a ridiculous slog and the beginner level stuff is not as novel as gliding over snow or ice.

99.99% of the public will never have the strength or athleticism to even get up onto a gymnastics bar or be able to do anything but hang from the rings. If you ever tried it even once as a kid you can never lose respect for those athletes, even if the sport is flawed by judging. Most of us would hang from the bar/rings limply and not even have the strength to do anything at all other than fall off after 30 seconds.

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Since you decided you just had to quote I guess I will respond. Actually I have very high level experience and performance results in sport including on skis (why on earth would I strap on a board when I have complete freedom on skis?) So I have a very good understanding of performance training and athletics.

I suggest you actually read and consider what I said instead of just calling me out because I said something you don't agree with. You would be fine to just post your thoughts as I did.

But calling snowboarding athletic is an insult to those who are actually athletes. Yes some spectacular jumps and air time and its certainly dare devil. Regardless of what you like I suggest you watch some figure skating and snowboard side by side and really consider what you are seeing and then decide whether snowboarding is truly athletic (doesn't look like there's a lot of exertion in riding gravity for 30 secs). You might want to look at Nordic skiing, speed skating etc to get a broader view of athleticism.

Judging has always been an issue with snowboarding. They're all cool now to take millions in endorsements and stuff but no one ever thought the judging worked right. It was all about chilling on the hill and watching people pull off tricks.

Since you decided you just had to quote I guess I will respond. Actually I have very high level experience and performance results in sport including on skis (why on earth would I strap on a board when I have complete freedom on skis?) So I have a very good understanding of performance training and athletics.

I suggest you actually read and consider what I said instead of just calling me out because I said something you don't agree with. You would be fine to just post your thoughts as I did.

But calling snowboarding athletic is an insult to those who are actually athletes. Yes some spectacular jumps and air time and its certainly dare devil. Regardless of what you like I suggest you watch some figure skating and snowboard side by side and really consider what you are seeing and then decide whether snowboarding is truly athletic (doesn't look like there's a lot of exertion in riding gravity for 30 secs). You might want to look at Nordic skiing, speed skating etc to get a broader view of athleticism.

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Sorry you're digging yourself a bigger hole. Clearly you're one of those people who is bitter snowboards are even allowed in the resorts. There used to be a lot of people like you!

I actually was on an X/C ski team at one point and grew up doing that. I have about 15 years experience skiing and an equal level in snowboarding. It doesn't sound like you've ever tried a snowboard and have an axe to grind. I don't watch much sports but I've participated in many of them. That's where I'm coming from when I appreciate them all.

No idea how old you are but you should just try it. (snowboarding) It really stings the ego to be fine skiing glades & double diamond steeps and get on the snowboard and you can't even stand still on flat ground without falling over. You get over it fast though. I'm still contemplating going back to downhill skiing though. It was always easier than snowboarding, you don't really need to learn how to go backwards, and you don't have to release a binding to ride the lift or traverse flat ground.

Do you think skateboarding requires no athleticism as well? What about surfing? Surfing is the king of all these sports, another one that doesn't fit into competition well at all. If I lived somewhere it was reasonable I'd love to be able to surf.

Since you decided you just had to quote I guess I will respond. Actually I have very high level experience and performance results in sport including on skis (why on earth would I strap on a board when I have complete freedom on skis?) So I have a very good understanding of performance training and athletics.

I suggest you actually read and consider what I said instead of just calling me out because I said something you don't agree with. You would be fine to just post your thoughts as I did.

But calling snowboarding athletic is an insult to those who are actually athletes. Yes some spectacular jumps and air time and its certainly dare devil. Regardless of what you like I suggest you watch some figure skating and snowboard side by side and really consider what you are seeing and then decide whether snowboarding is truly athletic (doesn't look like there's a lot of exertion in riding gravity for 30 secs). You might want to look at Nordic skiing, speed skating etc to get a broader view of athleticism.

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I used to ski quite a bit when I was younger. I never tried snowboarding, but I’m interested in hearing why you think that someone performing an action on a snowboard is less athletic than it is to perform the same action on skis.