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WoC big stuff tactics

Hi all,
I'm currently building my WoC army (from scratch), and I've decided to invest in some big stuff, namely a chariot, 4 Ogres w. great weapons and a giant. This is the first time I've used any of these units, or anything of their stature (Black Coach excluded). What would be the most effective way(s) to use these guys? Especially how to protect them from magic and missile fire!
Thanks,
Penitent Engine

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

Well, from my experiance there isn't any real way to protect the Giant from missile fire. my freinds O&G Giant has a bullseye painted on it. Basiclly it's large target with low toughness in comparison to warmachines strentgh, and the marks of chaos aren't good at saving it hide ( And you will always want MOS, as ASF is glorious), however, far from telling you not to use giants, use it! they are awesome. There advantages far outway the negatives. Just watch out for skinks with blowpipes.

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Re: WoC big stuff tactics

As Sulla stated...the only way to protect your giant is to either kill the opposition shooting/magic OR target saturation. Basically...if your opponent has a cannon and handgunners etc. Dont send your giant on his own, send him with knights and other hard hitters so your opponent has to choose which to shoot. I find that putting my Disc sorc out in the open is a great way for him to draw fire away from things like a giant. With ench shield and golden eye my sorc survives a stupid amount of missile fire, whilst it might be a little risky it probably means that my knights hit the lines unharmed.

As for Chaos Ogres I do not see a use for them. They are only T4 with 4+ save and are extremely vulnerable to small arms fire as well as not hitting nearly as hard as chaos knights and being slower. If you were to run ogres I would suggest 4 with MOK, chaos armour, no command. Xtra HW if you want to kill T3 infantry, GW if you want to have a go at cav. However, I would highly reccommend 3 Dragon ogres with GW over them for the str 7, better M and better WS.

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

The best defense is a good offense, take heavy Magic and assault the units containing heavy shooting or opposing Wizards without mercy. There is no real way to obscure a Large Target and give it good cover. War Machines should be your biggest target, since you can stop enemy magic with your own.

As for your other stuff, I believe units of Hounds / Maurader Horsemen should obscure them, though I'm not entirely sure. It depends on the density of hills in your opponents deployment zone.

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

my giant serves me well as a pincushion making it possible for my other units to reach enemy lines. He has made it into combat a couple of times but that has mainly been against other WoC or other armies without a lot of shooting.

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

The shaggoth's speed means he can pick targets better than the giant. He can't take on ranked stuff but he can get the jump on enemy fast stuff and smash it.

What's the point in that? If your shaggoth is out smashing up 'fast stuff', it means your enemy's fast stuff is doing their job and your shaggoth isn't.

For the amount of points a shaggoth costs it should be either a tarpit, be able to smash up your opponents best units or be so hard to kill it acts as points denial.

A shaggoth can't do any of those. It's not stubborn, not unbreakable, not terribly hard to kill and very easy to divert away from any valuable targets. With 5 attacks total it's not all that frightening even if it does reach combat.

Giants on the other hand perform two out of those three tasks admirably for far less points. If they do make it to combat they're a terror, able to hold up almost any unit indefinitely while potentially doing massive damage on any target. Whether it's rank and file, elite troops or even large targets. For less points than a shaggoth. (or similar points if you want to add something like always strikes first)

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

Chariots can be good, but you need to worry about cannons and st7 autokills. Because they can't march move, they tend to be slow. Don't bother sticking a hero in a chariot. There are too many other options that work instead.

Ogres are not my favorite. I prefer dragon ogres, even though people say the models suck. M7, S7, 4W is excellent value at 231 pts for 3 of them. One of the most important additions to any list.

Giants are great fun. Their randomness is fun and creates interesting story lines. IMO, the best set-up is the Giant of Slaanesh. ASF really makes him something to be feared on the table. Of course you gotta keep him away from missle fire. So use terrain. Sometimes, he doesn't even come out of hiding until late in the game. Just keep him in the back, away from shooting in order to protect the flanks and rear of your line.

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

Ogres are not my favorite. I prefer dragon ogres, even though people say the models suck. M7, S7, 4W is excellent value at 231 pts for 3 of them. One of the most important additions to any list.

At at GW tourney, a player had brought really cool looking converted Dragon Ogre models. They were the Chaos Knights horses without the horse head, and the torso, head and arms of the plastic Black Orc models on the top. Looked pretty good, and I'm sure dollar wise, it was a whole lot cheaper.

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

What's the point in that? If your shaggoth is out smashing up 'fast stuff', it means your enemy's fast stuff is doing their job and your shaggoth isn't.

For the amount of points a shaggoth costs it should be either a tarpit, be able to smash up your opponents best units or be so hard to kill it acts as points denial.

Knights are both fast and often your opponent's best units. Send a giant towards them and you have usually gifted him 200vps and an overrun. Send a shaggoth towards them and they can't guarantee the charge, nor can they guarantee holdiong if charged.

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Re: WoC big stuff tactics

Originally Posted by sulla

Knights are both fast and often your opponent's best units. Send a giant towards them and you have usually gifted him 200vps and an overrun. Send a shaggoth towards them and they can't guarantee the charge, nor can they guarantee holdiong if charged.

Really? My giant is usually pretty happy when he get's to stomp some knights.

But who actually let's a Shaggoth near knights? It doesn't fly, there's really no excuse for letting a shaggoth do anything except loiter around while being blocked and redirected by cheap crudd while getting shot at.

Sure the same works for a giant, but at least the giant is awesome regardless of what he ends up in combat with. Shaggoth's on the other hand tend to lose against just about anything unless they get a flank charge. With 5 basic attacks and nothing else to help him in combat, it's nearly impossible to win combats, I can think of only a few situations where 5 casualties really matter and it's easy to prevent a shaggoth from getting into any of those. More likely it'll do less than 5 casualties and lose.

It's ok to like shaggoth's really but they don't even come close to the utility of a giant, while costing some 60 points more. Shaggoths could be 60 points cheaper and I probably still wouldn't bring one over a giant.

Re: WoC big stuff tactics

Originally Posted by sulla

Knights are both fast and often your opponent's best units. Send a giant towards them and you have usually gifted him 200vps and an overrun. Send a shaggoth towards them and they can't guarantee the charge, nor can they guarantee holdiong if charged.

I'd have to disagree here (atleast with the common knight units). An ASF giant vs knights is a match up that I'll look for. Even a regular giant vs knights is something I'll look for. The only match-ups that I avoid with an ASF giant are:

The 4th item is pretty self explanatory. The first two because they can take punishment and still dish out some nasty attacks back. And two chariot charge gets to dish out pain before a the slaanesh giant gets to hit back.

In fact, I'll often let it be charged by sub optimal units just to engage it and take it out of shooting.