226 responses so far ↓

It’s kind of hard to bill people before you give them an ambulance ride. With the bleeding and all. (Unless it’s one of those fun ambulance rides where you ask them to take you around the block with the sirens on just for kicks. Those are usually pre-paid)

And is that bill only $241/341? That is one cheap ambulance ride!!! Must have been across the street.

sometimes they charge (as in my case, for example) to transmit you from one side of the hospital to the other, by ambulance. like if the hospital spans two sides of the street, and they aren’t allowed to let you walk. that’s the only reason i could figure that it would be this cheap.

She / He could have been unresponsive and unable consent at the time the ambulance was needed.
Which makes it a consent in those cases.
So on that take,
she / he owes them her / his life.
But I guess they can’t take that, can they…?

Crash, I like how you try really hard to avoid using singular ‘they’ but blow it in the last sentence. Contrary to what some pedants think, there is nothing wrong with using ‘they’ as a singular third person pronoun if you don’t know the gender of the subject.

And I can read the note Gez.
I was building a scenario for the idea that she / he would owe “them” ( EMT’s ) not only a monetary debt but also her / his own life which “they” ( bill collectors ) can’t take as payment in retribution for the non payment of the bill.

Er, sorry. I am an unabashed pedant, and as such it is my duty to tell you that historically, they and their has been used as gender-neutral singular pronouns for much of Modern English’s history and only recently has the s/he bit been taught.

I’m not a big enough pedant to say how recently. I will say, however, that since I learned this little tidbit, I have boldly and unashamedly used they instead of he/she. Who wants to join the revolution with me?

LOL,
It’s cool glo…
I have nothing against a true pedant.
But if you’re ( as in Gez ) going to critique me and act as if you’re educating pedants yourself…
( which I don’t claim to be )
Then for Chris’ sakes…
Read my post right !
That’s all.
If you’re gonn’a make a show of knowledge have the right information to do it…
Then I’ll take you seriously.

If we’re going to be pedantic about the use of he/she, I hope y’all won’t mind if I pitch in my two cents based on my memory… being an old lady, I was right there in the grammatical trenches of elementary school when we all started using the “he or she” construct (later followed by suggestions like he/she, s/he, (s)he, and zie). Before that, it was not considered proper American grammar to use “they” as a singular, third-person word. When using the singular, third-person word where the person you were referring to might be of either gender, it was considered proper to use “he.” Part of the Feminist movement focused on the power of words, and thus school children all over America were forced to add “or she.” Ultimately, we didn’t mind, though, because it really helped pad an essay out if you didn’t really have much to say.

Oh, I see. Now you’re comparing me to the stereotypical dumb blonde because you couldn’t form a complete sentence when you tried to insult me.

Excuse me for asking for clarification in my original post. There was no need for you to tell me to go “do my homework”, a simple “Yes, that’s correct,” or “No, use he/she,” would have been adequate.

Go re-read your post and tell me if you understand it. Here, I’ll help break it down for you, and explain where I didn’t understand.

“Meaghan — Your English Teacher has taken the day off to go golfing —”
(I see this as an insult towards my English teacher. It’s implying that if they are off golfing, they aren’t able to teach me, so my presumed ignorance wasn’t under my control. Therefore, not insulting to me.)

Get your Degree In Whatever…tedious is what It Is. Get used to it.
(Where exactly do I find a “Degree In Whatever”? This sounds like an intriguing object that I would be interested in acquiring.

And what “Is It” that is so tedious, and I am to get used to? My Degree In Whatever?

For that matter, I said nothing about post-secondary education. For you to assume that I should get a degree in say, hamburger flipping, because I asked for clarification about grammar is just rude. Although I must thank you for specifying degree over diploma – you at least assumed that I am able to attend university.)

That’s What They Pay For… go do your homework.
(That’s What They Pay For – huh? Again I ask, who is paying whom? Earlier you said my English teacher was golfing, so I asked if they paid her to golf. It’s a valid question, considering the ambiguity of your statement.
Or maybe they pay for my Degree In Whatever to be tedious?)
Colour me confused.

Grow up and get over it. I don’t understand why every little thing said to you has to be blown way out of porportion and into some huge issue.

And now you analyzing every single sentence of Crash’s comment…

I see someone here who takes their internet conversations a little too seriously.

But now that I see you say “Colour” I see you are probably not American, so alot of this can be forgiven, but on the other hand, your attitude cannot. I am seriously thinking of getting The Unitard back from SarcasticMonkey and giving it to you for all of time.

I was honestly asking if it was true that you can use “they” if you are unsure of the gender of the single person you are referring to, because I had been told otherwise in the past. I wanted to know because I hate saying he/she all the time.

Okay, looking back, my inner Bitch-Monster-From-Hell may have taken over at 4.26, and so I agree that my comments to Bella were uncalled for.
However, I think Bella’s comment to me (4.12) was just as uncalled for – it came out of nowhere. I asked a question. She didn’t have to respond to it.

“(4.) Use of the singular they/their form. This construction is becoming increasingly acceptable. However, classroom teachers need to be aware that state and/or national assessments may not regard this construction as correct.”

–The Grammar Police – Serving and protecting since the inception of the internet.

In the U.S., ambulances are private companies (as opposed to be being a government service). They have to make money somehow, or else we would have no ambulances, and paramedics can’t be everywhere. However, if you have good health insurance, it will usually cover ambulance trips in an emergency.

Texas Is …. well, I deleted most of my comment because I don’t want to “hear It” from Texans. Because I truly don’t care. And I will avoid Texas like the Plague. If I never have to go there again in my lifetime, I will be happy.

You’re right, Texas is awesome. I was at UT Austin for 8 months a couple of years ago as an exchange.

I don’t even think you’re from Texas, otherwise you would actually have a sense of humour. If you are, you’re probably from some douchey Hicksville where the same system is repeated worldwide, i.e. you get defensive over absolutely nothing because you know the reality is that your hometown sucks balls, but you haven’t the desire to change your situation, having learned helplessness from the sheer awfulness of your situation.

Hm. Is that like the NHS for the US Armed Forces? In which case the price you pay is agreeing (or having a family member agree) to potentially risk getting mained or killed. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

Everyone pays for medical care one way or another. you may not get a bill, but you pay in taxes.
What? Do you think Emergency Medical Techs in your country work for free?
Anyone out there with insurance that thinks their care is free should understand that premiums are paid. If your employer provides free insurance, your paying in terms of a smaller salary.

I understood the first half of #12.7 and yes, your tax dollars pay for everything that the government pays for. At least they did when the budget was balanced and there was a surplus.
Those are your tax dollars that pay the fine doctors, nurses and other medical professionals at Walter Reed and other VA hospitals, so stop crying.
BTW, if your spouse is in the armed forces, my tax dollars are putting food on your table.
Thank you for the sacrifice.

I wasn’t crying, I was kidding. I actually think our pay holds up pretty well at most duty stations (except places like Washington, where the cost of living’s ridiculous). Looking at family and non-military folks around here, we’re able to afford a pretty good life. Maybe I should have said “Jokes!”

The second half (bright side/batshit insane) was a reference to my comment at #12.4

Yeah, I was not thinking of you personally when I wrote about crying taxpayers. I probably just got carried away because I loathe people who accept services but complain about the taxes that pay for them.
My sincere apologies.
I do thank you for your sacrifice!!

I can’t get my head round it, dumb limey Brit that I am. So you’re unconscious, they take you to hospital, you wake up and bam! that’ll be three thousand dollars please. No wonder you hear about people trying to do surgery on themselves.. (shudder). I mean, the NHS is a bit shit, but it’s free.

Last time I checked, you Brits get to pay for your health insurance through your income taxes. According to wikipedia, the NHS is costing your government £98.6 billion in 2008-9. At least in the US, if you choose not to carry health insurance, you get charged only AFTER you use the services. I definitely think you Europeans need to wake up and see that your health insurance isn’t free. THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH.

However, this note illustrates a significant drawback to our (American) system. For good reason, you can’t deny emergency health care due to inability to pay. However, if the hospital can’t collect, as in this case, they’ll end up taking a loss, which they spread around to everyone else, driving up health care (and therefore health insurance) costs. On the other hand, if we had a system in place to make sure everyone had coverage, these patients would be able to take care of their medical problems before they ended up at the emergency room, which is cheaper and healthier. Also, under a single-payer system, administrative costs are much lower, because there’s less paperwork to determine what is covered under a patient’s policy.

How bad of a credit rating do you get for refusing to pay an ambulance charge? I’m guessing you can dispute the charge forever with the standard “It wasn’t me!” excuse. Doesn’t that stop the bill collector from adding it to your rating as an unpaid debt?

PS: In Florida, you can pretty much trade your kid’s Yu-Gi-Oh collection for a house.

Let’s set the record straight. The reason ambulance companies charge for their services is because Americans consistently abuse the emergency medical system. People call 911 when they break toes and clog up emergency rooms with issues as trivial as common colds.

And it’s people like that who screw it up for those with more serious/time sensitive health issues. These ridiculous ambulance charges have made grandmother put herself at an extra risk when she has had chest pains (She has had heart attacks in the past, and currently has a pacemaker). Instead of calling an ambulance, which she can’t afford, she has my dad drive 40 minutes to her house to pick her up and take her to the hospital.

A word on behalf of those who use emergency care for non-emergency situations. This typically is a result of people not having medical insurance, therefore not being able to afford preventive care, and not having primary care physicians. Also in some urban areas it is literally more difficult to find a nearby non-emergency physician than an emergency room. Also, if you are working at a job where it is not easy to take off time for a doctor’s appointment, an emergency room is often one of your few options, as you can go there any time of day or night and on the weekends. I sympathize with those of you who have had frustrating emergency room experiences as a result, but I think the root problem is one of lack of access to health care by all people, even those of us who are low-income.

But, obviously, little of what I just said would explain why someone would unnecessarily use an ambulance.

NO. pompom, what you are talking about is why there are URGENT CARE clinics and free health clinics. Almost EVERY Emergency room I have seen also has an Urgent Care attached plus some extra Urgent Care facilities floating around the city.

No, that is not typically why people use emergency care for non-emergencies.
It is because politicians find this an easy issue to make points on that they restrict insurers who pay Medicaid claims from denying ER claims by using such language as “Anything that a normal person would consider to be an emergency must be covered”.
I have paid Medicaid claims for ambulance service for a diagnosis of epistaxis. That is a nosebleed.
Medicaid reimbursement rates are very, very low. Overutilization of services by Medicaid patients forces service providers to make up the difference by charging non-indigent care patients more.

I think the biggest reason ERs get overused is because people are lazy and selfish. Gone are the days of “take two aspirin and call me in the morning”…Americans want instant gratification. So rather than take a few minutes to look up an urgent care facility or put some ice on it and see a doctor in the morning they flood the emergency room with nonsense. Well doctor, it stinks when I poop.

Politics play a small role. The under and uninsured often use the ER because they are less likely to be turned away but the majority of people wasting time, money and energy int he ER are people who just can’t be bothered with trivial things like using common sense.

claw – i agree with you. not only are there after-hours clinics and such, there are also things like help lines. one of the local hospitals has one, you call and talk to a nurse, explain what your problem is and she gives advice. it’s a toll free number and it’s printed in a half dozen places in the phone book. even has a page all to itself in the community guide section. people just can’t be bothered with finding info, some of them want somebody else to do everything for them.

In the old days we only paid for an obstetrical ultrasound to establish fetal age or for diagnostic purposes. Now we pay for them on every OB visit, US done basically so women can have a pic of their fetus to show their friends and co-workers. SUCKS!

I mostly agree there, claw.
I can’t tell you the number of arthroscopic surgeries I’ve paid for for men in their 40′s who keep injuring themselves playing sports.
I want to yell “Stop, you’re too old to play sports! That’s why you keep getting hurt you moron!”
Everyone wants an MRI when an x-ray will do, and the list goes on and on. We behave like spoiled brats sometimes, while the medical community keeps making up new diseases to worry us. WTF is “Restless Leg Syndrome”? Didn’t we used to call that “I tossed and turned all night”?

Don’t get me started on all these new diseases everybody needs medication for. Restless Leg Syndrom? Maybe that’s your body telling you it needs a little workout rather than another marathon session infront of the TV.

Everybody’s got an allergy, or their kids have some new disorder that mitigates a complete and total lack of discipline. Everytime I sneeze somebody asks if I have allergies. Can’t a man just sneeze once ina while? When did it become desirable to be dysfunctional?

And CB, there’s nothing wrong with men in their 40s playing sports. The problem is when Jimmy Whopperbreath waddles his fat ass out to the park for a semi monthly game of touch football. People who maintain a moderate level of physical activity don’t end up getting scoped every six months because they stepped on a half eaten Snickers bar.

My perscription for everybody is a plate of old fashioned tough cookies. Jesus, people, get over yourselves.

I have years of stories, claw! LOL
I know of one family whose every child is in an organized sports program and they all must be spastic because I paid their injury claims for years.
Don’t make me tell you about the guy whose parachute did not open properly!!
Or the 13 year-old girl with the Bic pen top stuck somewhere awkward! ROTFLMAO

Every month I get a power bill from BGE. And every month, the bill is made out to “Josheph,” despite the fact that they have my SSN. (I had to give it to them for a credit check at the start of service — or be forced to pay for several months’ worth of power up front, which I couldn’t afford at the time.)

And every month I include a nice little PAN with the bill, despite the “no correspondence enclosed with payment” notice. I know, the people handling the payments are not the data entry people. And I know, they never make the change. But it’s a little fun.

I’m tempted to make out a check to “BGHE” sometime to see how they like it — and maybe I would, if they wouldn’t fine me for a returned check, or something stupid like that.

Ummm, they can and they will. My cousin tried to stiff an ambulance carrier (I’m embarrassed to say) and she was surprised when they garnished her tax refund. Sucks for her but she should have paid them. They CAN make you pay them.

I don’t know where you all live but here, in California, I have taken many an ambulance ride that, while needed at the time, I could not pay for later. I called the company, disputed the charges stating that I disagreed with the cost of the service, had to write to formal complaint letters and the bill was written off. Hasn’t shown up on my credit.
I love this note, btw. Team Sticky-Note Smiley.

I guess what I don’t get is why everyone thinks this should all be free?

Is the ambulance free?
Is gas free?
Is the equipment free?
Does the driver work for free?

So, whether you agree or don’t agree with the way health care is supplied in the US, is not the issue. This deadbeat incurred a cost and now refuses to pay it. Was it damn bad luck ? I suppose so, but that doesn’t get her (judging by the smileys) off the hook for her bill. I DO hope her credit rating goes to shit, so the insurance company can pile on, the credit card company can raise her rates and she can’t get a job. That would make the 341 look like chump change.

Maybe she could be stand up about it and work out a payment plan?

BTW, no, I don’t work in the health care industry or anything else. I just pay my bills.

I think it’s the personnel that should comprise the majority of the bill. The cost of maintaining and operating equipment (including gas) should be minimal. The cost of purchasing the equipment, amortized over the large number of patients in the lifetime of the equipment, should also be small.

Still, all totaled up, the cost of an ambulance ride is quite expensive. This bill (looks like $241, to me) seems rather tame compared to what others are saying. Perhaps the writer of the note should have gotten (better) medical insurance.

Medical insurance doesn’t always cover ambulances. Even very good plans don’t often cover them because, depending on the company, they can be ridiculously expensive.
I dont think it should be free, I think it should be appropriately priced. Its one of those services that you cant help but have at least once (hopefully not more) in your life. It seems like jacking the price up is taking advantage of it. What about senior citizens on a fixed income? They dont have much of a choice about their healthcare. What happens when they are injured and need a paramedic? Should they be penalized for an inablility to pay? Of course some people will abuse ANY system but medical expenses should not prohibit you from buying a house or getting a job or having decent credit. Its not like you can always help getting sick.

Technically, as our Constitution guarantees a “right to life…”, ambulance services – when used for life-saving trips – should be a Constitutionally protected right. However, when one considers that the ambulance is a modern-day convenience reliable only in “First World” countries…
Anywho – I’m still team pay your damn bills if you actually value your life.

Medical insurance ALWAYS covers medically necessary ambulance service to the nearest facility equipped to handle the case.
It will cover hospital to hospital ambulance only if the new hospital offers some service that the first hospital could not, but will not cover if transport is for patient convenience (new hospital is closer to home, etc).
Hospital to home ambulance is only covered if it is medically necessary, otherwise call a taxi.
Here’s a shocker for you…insurance claims examiners do not pay attention to the cost of a service when determining eligibility, just to the plan document.

Not covered., usually your PCP is not a specialist and the facility you are in can handle your care.
Only covered if the PCP is way more qualified than the treating physician at the facility you happen to be in. And then only if the facility you are in cannot provide the support services for your PCP. Temporary privileges are often arranged as a professional courtesy. Even then, your HMO (I’m assuming here since you said PCP) probably has a participating physician with privileges at the facility.
You may have quite a problem getting an authorization for hospital #2 if it does not have facilities un-available at hospital # 1 as well. I would not advise trying such a thing unless you have the funds to pay hospital #2 just because you trust your PCP so much more than the doctor at hospital #1.

Where I live now the city pays for the ambulance ride but when I was growing up, I got a bill for an ambulance ride to the children’s hospital when I didn’t want to go in the first place (some idiot 6th graders decided to spray mace on a bus to see what it looked like & the whole thing filled with fumes; people freaked out when they found out I was asthmatic). The police and the ambulance driver finally convinced me to go…and subsequently charged me $245 for the ride. How did I finally get out of paying for it? By telling them that I was a minor who didn’t want to go in the first place. Funny how that works.

MACE?? That’s horrible!
Three days after I turned eighteen I had a horrible asthma attack. I wasn’t sick but something just triggered it, I ended up having a collapsed lung. I passed out, woke up in the ER and was in the ICU for five days. Since I had just become a legal adult, I was off my parent’s insurance (which we hadn’t been notified of yet since I had just barely turned 18). The bill was $23,600. It affected my credit since I didn’t have the money to pay it nor did my parents.
Luckily, I found this charity that will let you apply to have one medical bill paid every five years and they approved me. Otherwise my credit would still be ruined.

Wow, that plan bites RB. Were you not a full time student?
Most of the plans I have worked with cover full-time students up to ages ranging from 23 to 25.
Also most cover until the end of the calendar or plan fiscal year in which the child turns 18.
I’ve never seen one that terminated coverage on the child’s birthday. That really sucks, but their are some crappy plans out there.
Did no one advise you about COBRA coverage (continuation of benefits)?

I was on my late father’s insurance. He passed away when I was 16 and he had an amazing benefits package from his job. It kept me covered under his insurance (Pacific Care, which was excellent) until I was 18. It didnt have a Cobra option since it was extended coverage for minor dependents under his work’s plan. They covered my Mom and I since he was a year away from retirement. Anyway, I was suppose to be getting on to student insurance through my college but hadn’t done it yet since I didn’t think I was going to collapse a lung.
It really was one of those “just slipped through the cracks” incidents and it was back in 1998. Im sure things have changed now.

Hey, even in Canada, where we get so much hospital/medical stuff for free, you still pay for an ambulance…. but they never tell you. My mom was in a horrific bike accident and it was months and months before she got the bill for the ambulance. However, with good medical coverage, her plan reimbursed her for the cost. Sure is a lot of money owed months after a near fatal accident.

You get nothing for free, Heather. You pay taxes.
Who do you think pays the salaries of health care personnel?
The government pays them with your tax money. How do they get paid? Through a bureaucracy that you turn a blind eye to preferring instead to believe in a free lunch.

Medical bills are completely terrifying. You can be perfectly in the black one day, and get sick the next, being left with thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars worth of debt. *still have $3500 left to pay* Check your insurance policies and check them twice, everyone.

Call the toll free number on your insurance ID card. Customer service reps are paid to explain the jargon to you. ASK QUESTIONS.
My advice…get your plan booklet out and read the section called “Exclusions” first. Those are the things your plan does not cover, so don’t call and complain when something on that list is denied. It’s not worth the phone call.

I’m going to have to contact the International Brotherhood of…well…Brothers (AKA I.B. BROTHA) and have his black card suspended. Sorry CB, but rules are rules. We would have accpeted 5-0, po-po or any variation of pork but that punk-ass British shit be whack, dog.

I’ve also forwarded a report to the Mens’ Consortium to see if it violated any of the Man Laws. I fear unless you wear born and raised in England we might be revoking your nuts as well.

No offense taken.
But they called me once on an old Sears account, and in NJ they will send the “Constable” out to make good on the lien. Can’t make this shit up. I told them to come on by and determine what was mine and what was my wife’s. they never showed up, the “cunts”!

i have no sympathy or respect for the writer of the sticky note. if you received the service, pay for it you asshole.
if someone like me, with no health insurance can manage to pay medical bills then just about anyone could. all it takes is a few phone calls to work out a payment plan and sticking to a budget that figures those monthly payments in. it’s not easy and it sure ain’t fun but i do it.
btw, yes unpaid bills for ambulance services do appear on credit reports. my late husband had one on his. i called the people, got them to send me a bill and i paid it. not paying for services means that eventually, in order to recoup their losses, providers will increase the cost of their services.

$241/$341 seems like a bargain if during that ambulance ride the EMT’s saved you from death. I can see how it might be a little pricey if you were the lowlife with the splinter who needed an ambulance ride to the hospital, thereby occupying it when my Dad had chest pains and there was no ambulance available. Team don’t call the ambulance if you could get there under your own power and death is not a probable outcome of your current situation.

Our fire departments are volunteer, and they have ambulances, so they are free, we just go to the carnivals in the summer and spend a few bucks on rides and games. They hold raffles and fund-raisers and really it’s a nice system. Does this exist outside of Long Island?

yes volunteer fire depts exist outside of long island. and the summer carnivals usually do not raise enough money to cover expenses. from what i’ve been told (by volunteer firefighters and first responders) some of the money is provided by grants from the state and federal government. guess where the grant money comes from, boys and girls? that’s right, taxes.

It really is hard to explain how obscene and just plain inhumane it seems to a Brit to charge for emergency care (ambulance, X-ray, ER etc.)
Yes, we pay for the NHS via taxes and in the process fund a lot of time-wasters, but per capita the total cost works out less than for the US. In return we get a service which is probably worse than top-class health insurance (which you can buy here anyway if you choose) but a lot better than Medicare, Medicaid or nothing.
Here in Scotland we even get free eye and dental check-ups and are reducing the cost of prescription medicines. Elsewhere in the UK these carry a nominal charge for those in paid work.

You get nothing for free, the cost is just shifted to your collective tax burden.
I agree that a nationalized system would work well, especially in a country like the USA which has the infrastructure in place to accommodate the patient load. Inhumane or not, a service has been rendered and must be paid for. We all need food, is it inhumane for grocery stores to charge for it?
Food for thought.

I really do wish you knew what are talking about. Medicare pays for almost all treatments. Those which are rendered but not covered by Medicare, must, by law, be written off by the provider of service. Medicare beneficiaries cannot be billed for services which Medicare denies as not medically necessary. Medicare beneficiaries are also not billed the 20% coinsurance if they can demonstrate an inability to pay. Our system is not as draconian as you may like to think. Do your homework before you comment on it.
(two years under my belt as a medical biller as well)
Medicaid beneficiaries have no liability at all.

In fact Medicare has a code that translates into “The provider knew or should have known that this is a non-covered service” used in conjunction with a code which reads ” The beneficiary cannot be billed for this expense”.
My wording may be off, but that is the gist of it.

before my father died, he was having trouble breathing, I called the local hospital and told them what I was seeing about him. The ambulance showed up within 5 minutes and even before that, local township police showed up and looked to see what they could do. Those EMTs did not know my father, but treated him like a VIP. A few weeks after he died, I got a bill from the ambulance service for $32.00. Medicare had covered the other 90%. I was happy to pay that money, if only to help insure that if I need the service, it will be there for me.
Why don’t people want to pay their bills?

Providers do push up their fees to compensate for loses, but the main reason that fees increase is to push up what is called the “usual and prevailing” or “reasonable and customary” fee in the provider’s area. Insurance reimbursements are based upon a percentage of the U&P or R&C fee in a given area.
Let’s not forget malpractice insurance rates, BTW.

AT&T is self-insured, meaning the costs are borne by the company, not an insurance company. If they want it covered, the administrator of the plan (what you think of as the insurance company) will pay it.
As I said, claims examiners go by the plan document. I doubt that AT&T would require that an ambulace be called without adding coverage for it in their plan.More likely is that you are required to call for a prior authorization before requesting such services for such a condition.
I’d suggest that you read your father-in-law’s plan booklet more closely.

The irony of you posting such a ridiculous rant on a PA Web site aside– ’twas only a comment relating to your earlier post about how some people use ambulances for silly things like nosebleeds. I hadn’t been keeping up with your page-long diatribes on the state of health care. I usually skip past all of the detached ranting (it is, after all, a humorous blog).

I do, however, nominate your creative use of bold text for the “Ridiculously over-reactionary and self-important” hall of fame!!

Hold on there Kate, you’re the one who opened the door with this lame story about AT&T forcing employees to take an ambulance. It’s out of context because we’re referring to people who abuse the system and you’re referring to a very specific nuance in a company policy designed to protect the company from litigation stemming from a work-related injury.

But let’s delve deeper. While I haven’t read AT&T’s manual I know the law and I know that no employer can force an employee to seek medical treatment. If your father-in-law suffers a nose bleed and opts to keep pressure on his nose for a few minutes to stop the bleeding nobody can force him to see a doctor. Nobody. Not ever. And if he believes they can he deserves every screw-over they give him because he’s a clown.

Now I have dealt with companies who do not let injured workers transport themselves to a medical provider simply because they don’t want to be held accountable for what might happen in transit. That’s actually really smart. Never let your employee drive his or her own vehicle while on the clock becuse when you do you accept the liability associated with that employee’s vehicular maintenance program.

Some companies have a supervisor drive the IW to the ER or urgent care, others opt for a cab. If your story is accurate, and it might be a line of crap because fathers in law have been known to be full of crap, AT&T needs to talk to the local HR manager and explain the cost of using an ambulance for non emergency events.

This site isn’t just jokes, baby. We can get real from time to time. If you don’t want it to get serious keep it light and stay away from the heavy stuff. You chose to engage CB…your bad.

Free advice is all well and good, CB – and I am not taking sides in this argument – but the lack of evidence to support your claims, other than a presumed “20 years” history in the industry, and things like “the law”, means your advice lacks credibility.

Was I supposed to post my resume here for your approval, Lorrie, or did you have a specific instance to note where I was wrong in my statements regarding health insurance claims payment rules and regulations?
I’m not getting a consulting fee here, I have no reason to give false info. I was just trying to be helpful…we sometimes call that networking.
I don’t know your job like you do and would welcome your insight if I needed it. I would not just toss your words into the bin as being not credible without doing my homework.
You will note that I advised that she could call her insurance company to verify the veracity of my “claims”!!!

Try a smilie or two.
apology accepted.
I don’t know how easily industry policy can be found on-line or from other reputable sources. I’ve never needed to use such avenues as I’ve received my training from two of the largest insurers in this country.
There is nothing humorous about the two decades of hard work I have put into my career, so keep your quotation marks to yourself and refrain from calling me a liar.

On that note, I never called you a liar at all, so please do not put words into my mouth.

I have clearly stated that you ARE credible. Most industry policy is available wherever public records are found, and the law is, well, the law.

I did not attack you personally and have apologized for your misunderstanding.

In my joking post above, the two statements clearly conflict. Your credibility, to back up your proffered advice, IS your experience and law.

I am trying my best to be friendly, stating again that I never intended attack against you, rather I used sarcasm to attack the original poster, Kate. It may have been a poor attempt at humor, or perhaps your sense of humor and mine don’t mesh, but don’t attack me for it after I have apologized sincerly for it.

I don’t use smilies because I find them an abhorent abuse of communication.

Spare me, Claw! You said right in your diatribe that you don’t know the first thing about AT&T and I’m quite sure that you don’t know the first thing about my father- in-law. Besides, nobody was asking you for your 300 page opinion. Maybe it impressed the handful of idiots who think you’re funny but I know you’re full of shit.

Kate, I hate to reveal this to you, but by posting something on a public forum, you have indeed asked Claw for his opinion. You have also asked for my opinion. Indirectly, maybe, but by posting on a public forum, you’ve asked for the world’s opinion.

Thanx, Lorrie, but only on this issue am I so sure about what I speak!
I have been known to back-track and apologize for being in error here.
Poor, Kate, you asked for the opinion of all when you posted a comment. Suck it up, defend yourself and your words or go away.
In my opinion you clearly do not understand the policy in question so I again urge you to both read it carefully and call your insurer with any questions.

Kate, quit while you are only a little behind. You are coming across as one of those shrieking harpies who cleaves desperately to her ignorance. It is true, I don’t know your father-in-law, but you yourself have stated REPEATEDLY that you have not bothered to read what anyone else on this thread has said about the topic at hand. You DON’T KNOW WHAT WE (or YOU by extension) ARE TALKING ABOUT. If you want to stick to the fluff on this site that is fine, but then don’t weigh in half cocked on the serious conversations.

PISS! I was only going to comment once on this topic. SEE WHAT YOU DID KATE?

#40.3, I get this crap from you for trying to help you? Fuck you you ignorant slut!!!
I cannot for the life of me see a rant when I only gave you the facts based upon my experience.
You are the type of person whose claims I LOVE to deny!!
BTW, you addressed me directly, only an asshole would not expect a response!

Well the post-it looks all blue and clinical, so was possibly lifted from the hospital. So try having an interview with the student loan people, then steal their stationery while they’re getting you a tissue to mop up your tears.

Of course! But if the server doesn’t tip at least 20%, the inadequate tip can be officially considered an insult and the EMT reserves the right to write multiple PA notes in blood on Post-Its left on the server’s unconscious body.

There is a customer who is an EMT she had the best stories. I remember her talking about this one lady that called for an ambulance and said she hurt her leg falling down the stairs and said she couldn’t walk. When they got there and loaded her on the strecher they were asking all the usual questions and asked about her insurance company. She got off the strecher, ran up 2 flights of stairs, got her purse, came back down fished out her insurance card and then got back on the strecher.

LOL!!
I had a woman call me and say that her husband was having a heart attack asking if an ambulance would be covered…she had not yet called an ambulance!!!
Then there was the guy who phoned and called me every bad name under the Sun before he even asked why his daughter’s prescription was denied. It gave me great pleasure to tell him that the plan in question did not cover birth control pills for contraceptive purposes. His little angel was 14 years old!!!

LOL! She also told me about one guy that would call every couple of days for a ride to the ER said he was hurt, having chest pains, and whatever. Turns out he was stalking one of the nurses. Whenever he’d get to the ER he’d start yelling for his “angel.”and that his “angel” would heal him. The calls for an ambulance stoped when she stoped working in the E.R. Sigh.
Another great use for our tax dollars.

CB, you may be right, you may be wrong…but you are for sure annoying! stfu! By the way, since my taxes pay for lots of illegals to get med care and ambulance rides….it sure wouldn’t kill me if it paid for MINE!!! national healthcare may have its drawbacks, but it’s better than the damn system in this country, where you can get screwed even with decent insurance…because someone was in a bad mood and ran into one of those claims she “loves to deny”. classless bitch, I hope karma gets you right in your fat ass for saying that.

1) I have expressed my preference for a national health care system
2) Your taxes do pay for your ambulance ride if you are uninsured.
3) Your xenophobia is not appreciated here.
4) No one can deny your valid claim, but we have wiggle room to pay your claim even if you fucked up, or start making phone calls on your behalf, or just pend your fucked up claim for additional info. Some people will deny your claim and let you file an appeal, I prefer to do the leg work, but not for assholes like you…DENIED!!!!!
5) I am not female and I do this job because I actually like paying your damned bills so you don’t have to worry about that shit while you are sick. But fuck you you judgemental asshole.

You are probably annoyed by me, N, because you cannot formulate a coherent argument to rebut my statements.
School is open again tomorrow…educate yourself on the issue, then come back to play with me. Like I am playing with your sorry ass now!

I’m not debating the system, just trying my best to explain it to you.
No one dies because of the system, they die, like my wife did, from disease.
Your health and your health care are two separate and distinct things. pick one to comment on, but please do not bundle them.

Consider the rest of the world, N, and be glad we have such advanced care available to us. It is spoiled rotten to believe we have a right to health care for free. While it would certainly be wonderful, we still would not have a RIGHT to it. Health care, like so many other things in this country, are luxuries or priveledges, NOT rights.

How can you say that, Lorrie? How can you say that health care is a luxury or a privilege? Do you feel that way about education too?

I’m not a fan of nationalized health care but we, as moral individuals and a community as a whole, need to find a way to ensure that more people have access to basic health care. The US mentality of have- and have-nots should not, and can not, be applied to health care. At a bare minimum, basic health care for all is simply the right thing to do.

And, we should set this example for the rest of the world as well. Just because other parts of the world don’t have any sort of organized health care, and we do, doesn’t make it right.

Sorry, but the majority of the industrialized world (i.e. not third world nations) has left us in the dust in this regard. They’ve got socialized medicine. In fact, that is how we got on this subject, others from outside the US commenting on their surprise that we receive bills for ambulance service.

Some things just will never be fair.
If you live in a rural area you will probably not have access to one of our better facilities or some of our best doctors.
Graduates of our finer medical schools seldom hang out their shingles in the boondocks.
There really is no comparison between the cancer care you will get at Memorial Sloan- Kettering and your local General Hospital.
I don’t like it. But that is a fact.

You Brits may be outraged that we Americans pay for ambulance rides, health care, etc., but I am outraged that your useless royal family takes their daily dumps in a solid gold toilet, paid for by YOU.

CB, it’s a bit disingenuous on your part to suggest that a policyholder merely call their insurer or look at their booklet. First, many insurance companies explicitly state that they are not bound by what their phone reps tell policyholders on the phone. Second, have you tried to get a booklet sent to you lately? It often takes weeks or never arrives at all. I don’t see how that’s an effective means of keeping updated as to your coverage. I know you support universal care and are not shilling for insurance companies, but it’s not nearly as easy a process as one might think to ascertain your own coverage. Also, the whole “reasonable and customary” thing is an absolute crapshoot, especially here in NYC where rates are through the roof.

I’m with Whibbles et al. – healthcare in this country is an absolute crime. I already pay taxes in the highest tax bracket and would be happy to add to that to not deal with private insurers.

The only people getting a “free lunch” in this country are executives at insurance companies.

Rule what? The Empire is gone, or have you deluded yourself into not seeing that like you have deluded yourself into thinking health care is free?
Now if we could just do something about the apparently lacking dental plan.

Just reading the comments, I can not believe you guys over there have to pay for an ambulance! Even if the Insurance company covers x% of the cost – it’s an emergency service! You don’t want to be ran over, but if you are you pay to be pick-up off the street? That’s crazy. Next you will be paying for the fire service and police to turn up – one police man or two (depending upon your insurance cover)?