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Jim Watson

February 23, 2013, 10:47 PM

I recall reading in the 1970's about the infamous hot Two Zed ammo beating up Brownings.
Might be smart not to hammer an aluminum Walther with it.

Walt Sherrill

February 23, 2013, 10:50 PM

I wonder if it's hotter than normal, like maybe ammo made for sub-machine guns?

The P-1 has an aluminum frame, and some of the earliest models may not be as robust as other guns from the period. (I think later models of the P-1 had reinforcements added to the frame.) Don't know about the P-38s...

That stuff is corrosive, and I try to avoid corrosive ammo. Unlike some folks, I don't get my thrills from cleaning weapons...

.

Sam1911

February 23, 2013, 10:50 PM

There's some pretty toasty (mostly European) 9mm out there put together for submachine guns. Might be a bit rough on the old Walthers.

rcmodel

February 23, 2013, 11:04 PM

+1
What he / they said.

Surplus sub-machine gun ammo = +P+ = To hot for an old Walther war horse.

rc

majortoo

February 23, 2013, 11:17 PM

Don't think I would use it in my dad's old Luger, either! (Or anything not rated for +P+).

blkbrd666

February 23, 2013, 11:20 PM

The wartime P38 has a steel frame.

T2K

February 23, 2013, 11:51 PM

OK, got it. So, it's "hot" ammo, not to be used in most non-modern pistols (not specific to the P-1 / P-38).

Made at Pakistani Ordnance Factory...probably for their version of the Sterling SMG or something like that, I guess.

Thanks for the info.

PRM

February 24, 2013, 08:42 AM

The P38 and P1 stampings are both found on post war alloy frame guns. The P38 designation was the stamp used on these guns from the end of WWII up through 1957~1963 dependent on the source cited. The German military changed the designation to P1 and their guns were stamped as such from that time on. Commercial models continued to be stamped P38 after that date.

The design specs on the gun were the standard velocity 115 - 124 grain bullets.

Shooting hot rounds or heavier weight bullets can increase wear on the firearm and in extreme cases, some frames, although rare have been cracked.

The P38 - P1 is a fun accurate gun to shoot. Stay within the design limits and it will probably become an heirloom piece.

Walt Sherrill

February 24, 2013, 02:50 PM

OK, got it. So, it's "hot" ammo, not to be used in most non-modern pistols (not specific to the P-1 / P-38).

Keep in mind, too, that the ammo is also corrosive. That means cleanup, after a shooting sessions, should be fairly quick and VERY complete -- or you'll start finding a LOT of rust in places you wouldn't normally expect to see it.

GCBurner

February 24, 2013, 04:11 PM

I cracked a WWII vintage P-38 slide shooting some surplus 9mm ammo that was apparently intended for submachine guns. Luckily, it didn't come apart in my face. The most recent Walther P-1s have beefed up slides and frames, but I'd still stay away from anything made for sub-guns, or rated +P+.

Rock185

February 24, 2013, 08:06 PM

T2K, While I have never had any 2Z ammo to chronograph, I have read that the 2Z ammo is hotter than average 9MM. I have used and chronograped a fair amount of the warmer 9MM, such as +P, +P+, IMI Carbine ball, machinegun ammo, etc, but never in the P-38. Like GCBurner, the slide on my WWII vintage P-38 cracked. My slide cracked in the area where the locking block locks into the slide. This is the same area where some of the Beretta 92 slides,which use the P-38 type locking system, were reported to have cracked. I was not using any warm ammo in my P-38. The later P-4 version of the P-38 has a higher sidewall on the slide, which reinforces the locking area. I suspect this change was made for a reason.

I like the P-38s, but definitely I would not fire anything hotter than regular SAAMI spec. ammo in them...ymmv

Carl N. Brown

February 24, 2013, 08:12 PM

Italian ammo marked M38 should not be fired in pistols either.

Fremmer

February 24, 2013, 08:22 PM

Not too mention there are enough p1/38s with corroded bores from firing corrosive ammo.

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