Silent Ban Discussion

This is a no win conversation, given that folks want to believe it because Nadal owns Fed.

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This has nothing to do with Federer for me. Federer is so far ahead of Nadal it is stupid for Nadal fans to bring up the h2h at this point. In addition, I am not a Nadal hater. It would not matter which player this was happening to for me, I would still say the same thing, if it was Djokovic or Murray or Federer or player X.

This has nothing to do with Federer for me. Federer is so far ahead of Nadal it is stupid for Nadal fans to bring up the h2h at this point. In addition, I am not a Nadal hater. It would not matter which player this was happening to for me, I would still say the same thing, if it was Djokovic or Murray or Federer or player X.

I never bought the full mono story as a Fed fan for instance.

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Omg. :shock: You are the first Fed fan I have EVER heard say this. You better watch out or else you'll be thrown out of the club. Lol.

Wow. There are some daft threads on this forum, but all of this silent ban nonsense trumps every single one of them. Kudos to whoever it was that first came up with this idea. You, kind sir, win the internets.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Serena in this conversation. Looking at photos of her over the years the increase in muscle mass is astounding. And there's the now infamous "safe room incident" and speculation about her foot injury being a cover for a silent ban.

Serena has more muscle and is cut more than Federer who is fit but otherwise has a plain old fashioned tennis player's physique. In a Celebrity Death Match I think Serena would easily beat Federer!

If Nadal is indeed doping, I wouldn't be too sure that Federer is definitely clean as well.

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Yes, because Federer has such a checkered history with suspicious withdrawals and injuries, not to mention dubious tactics during matches and getting fined for being illegally coached, the way Nadal does. Oh, wait...

People who suspected or believed the silent ban conspiracy were pretty much convinced that rafa would show up to play the Australian open after the supposedly 6 month ban. Now with him not playing , they are more convinced, that's just RIDICULOUS. So the know it alls, what is the ban period. The spin that some folks here put on this is UNREAL.
From Rafa's interview with Neil Harman, it was pretty clear the guy wasn't doing great, was under the weather , did not say for sure he will make it to AO, he said he was going to see how things go at Abu Dhabi and take it from there. The guy just stated practicing just a few weeks back and then couldn't go on , so is in no way prepared to play a major, why is this not a plausible theory is beyond me.
Anyways, it is a rhetorical question, trolls /haters don't bother to answer. If you do, thats fine, don't expect a response though.

I do not know if Nadal is guilty of anything, but if he is, the whole silent ban concept seems 10 times more annoying to me compared to an athlete "trapped" in a dopping situation. I really do not care what a public (non-silent) ban would do to tennis. I would accept everything and then gladly go do my soul-searching or whatever. And this comes from an avid fan, player, coach, stringer, linesman and whatever else you can imagine - this is how holistic my approach towards the sport is and how truly committed I am to it.

Somebody else out there deciding to manipulate the flow of information, on top of so many other things (!), is frustrating as it is. I find it insulting that those ATP guys are so certain that all of us tennis lovers would just simply forget about the sport after a potential disclosure of such dimensions, money would vanish and gloom and doom would cover everything. I personally love the game for what it is. I could care less if Mr. God gets caught, whatever his name. To me, an athlete using all his remaining strength, shining by virtue of his iron will and fighting spirit - this is what's magnificent, not just about tennis, but about all sports.

And really, what I hate most is not the fact that my stance sounds idealistic, but that those representing the sport, or the few, self-proclaimed savvy ones who do not see the fundamental truth in this argument want to sound like they know so much and understand even more, when in reality they are only perpetuating a vicious circle with their occult-like, smug attitude.

Let me preface this by saying that I don't dismiss the possibility of top players doping (in fact I think they are) and that there are shady dealings going on behind scenes that we know nothing of but this silent ban theory regarding Nadal just doesn't make sense to me.

Tennis has very few genuine stars as it is and while I like both Novak and Murray, they have nowhere near the star power of Nadal (only Fed can be argued to be at the same or probably even higher level in that regard) so given that Nadal is the biggest or 2nd biggest cash cow wouldn't it be more plausible that they cover up his supposed failed doping test then to force him out of the game for an extended period?

Another thing, what makes Nadal so special in terms of doping that he's the only one of the top guys that is caught? Do you really believe that other big names in tennis (Fed, Novak, Murray) don't have access to the same high level stuff he does? Or that they would be able to hang with him if he was using and they weren't?

I'll preface this by saying that I do not believe Nadal is doping or banned. I think it's ridiculous. However, I am laughing at the people that are saying that if Nadal is doping then they all are. Is it a possibility that they are all doping? Absolutely. But if it comes out that Nadal was/is doping and nothing comes out about the other 3 for example, nobody has any grounds to accuse anyone other than Rafa. Of course, as I said, I do not believe he is doping. Having said that, it is quite hard to not talk about it at this point.

There's a quote in the Marcelo Rios book by Rios about the suspicion that Agassi and Sampras might have been using PEDS but he said the public and media would never find out about it if it was true.

"I know that if nandrolone were found on Agassi, they would not disclose it. He is a very prominent, very popular player and if he were to fall, the world of tennis would fall with him. The ATP would not say it. They are such a large, dependant organization that it would be a problem if Agassi or Sampras tested positive. (We) the South Americans have discussed it repeatedly. It is a complicated subject. I do not have a problem in saying it: we always said (we asked ourselves) who publicly certifies the doping tests of Agassi or Sampras? I would love to be able to see and certify Agassi's doping tests because now I currently have no idea who is doing the test, and who decides who gets it and who doesn't."

"I know that if they were to find nandrolone on Agassi, they wouldn't say it to anybody. It would taint his reputation and bring tennis down dramatically. ATP would not say it. It is such a large organization that it would be a problem if Agassi tested positive."

Makes you wonder, would the ATP conceal a positive Nadal test? They certainly would have great incentive too. As would Nike, Babolat, the Spanish Federation, all the Grand Slams, TV networks. Who knows? Bet Yannick Noah might offer some interesting comments.

There is an interesting controversy right now in boxing. A 39 year old boxer Juan Manuel Marquez hired a known PED expert Angel Heredia who was jailed for supplying PEDs for Marion JOnes and Tim Montgomery. Heredia boased in an interview with Spiegel Sport that he knew how to create 25 drugs that could cover up PED use and were undetectable to doping testers. Earlier this month Marquez, with Heredia on his team, knocked out Manny Pacquiao with one punch in the 6th rd, showing astonishing KO power which he did not show in 36 previous rounds in three fights vs. Pacquiao. Also, Marquez is 39 now and he beat Paquiao at welterweight, which is two classes higher than his most natural division, Lightweight.

Heredia is a rogue operator from Mexico. One can imagine what kind of resources and knowledge a major sporting Federation from a powerful country such as Spain might possess about PEDs and cover up drugs.

There is an interesting controversy right now in boxing. A 39 year old boxer Juan Manuel Marquez hired a known PED expert Angel Heredia who was jailed for supplying PEDs for Marion JOnes and Tim Montgomery. Heredia boased in an interview with Spiegel Sport that he knew how to create 25 drugs that could cover up PED use and were undetectable to doping testers. Earlier this month Marquez, with Heredia on his team, knocked out Manny Pacquiao with one punch in the 6th rd, showing astonishing KO power which he did not show in 36 previous rounds in three fights vs. Pacquiao. Also, Marquez is 39 now and he beat Paquiao at welterweight, which is two classes higher than his most natural division, Lightweight.

Heredia is a rogue operator from Mexico. One can imagine what kind of resources and knowledge a major sporting Federation from a powerful country such as Spain might possess about PEDs and cover up drugs.

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The Marquez parallel is certainly an interesting one to draw. Although it's not the KO punch that concerns me. It was a supremely timed counter-punch that Manny walked straight onto - IMO there's nothing suspicious about that.

It was the knockdown from Marquez's straight right earlier in the fight that baffled me; he never had that sort of devastating power before.

My my god people.... He is doping, it is getting more and more obvious. Not to say the others aren't, however the French coach outed the Spaniards earlier this year, where there is smoke there is fire. Have you guys seen Verdasco before and after? It is ridiculously obvious come on now. Ferrer at age 30-31 playing his best ever at 5'9"?

Some people here are SO NAIVE it makes me sick. The fact that some of you say it isn't possible is even more baffling. Where did you grow up? The fact is the human body can do weights and get huge, with adequate rest and a TON OF CALORIES. In professional sports, the body cannot recover from large amounts of muscle damage (lifting weights) while consistently playing tennis for hours a day, 11 months of the year, it just can't (at the highest level). The PED's being used are more than likely ones that help recovery, not hypertrophy.

what a coincidence that they were both mediocre for years and suddenly both jump to top of the rankings within a year. i'd buy it if maybe djokovic got to the top alone, but with his superhuman play the past two years and tipsarevic somehow breaking into the top 10 at the same time, questioning their fair play is deserved.

what a coincidence that they were both mediocre for years and suddenly both jump to top of the rankings within a year. i'd buy it if maybe djokovic got to the top alone, but with his superhuman play the past two years and tipsarevic somehow breaking into the top 10 at the same time, i feel like questioning their fair play is deserved.

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Of course it is obvious. Djoker absolutely does also. The guy went from a solid 2-3 GS winner to a top 15 of all time player in a matter of one year. As I said before, the A012 is a GIGANTIC EXAMPLE of superhuman cardio. Did you guys ever see that shot of Tipsarevic's legs when he "injured" them? ha ha ha.

That is a ridiculous argument. In that case, one could easily say that Fed was a solid top 15 player (his ranking in his early 20s) and all of a sudden suspiciously became an all time great. Djokovic was #6 when he hit 20 (Nadal was already #2) and Fed was # 14 at same age. Hum, how did Fed overcome his natural mediocrity?
Absurd reasoning. + Djoko was not a "mediocre player for years". He won his 1st Miami title at 19. The same year, he won Canada by beating #1, 2, 3 back to back and made his 1st slam final. He would win his second slam final a few months later. 2 consecutive slam finals at the age of 20, how little promise did such a player show, right? Let's be serious here.

They can all time the ball and hit with topspin, but not all of them can do it for six hours day in and day out and not show signs of fatigue.

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Yeah, just ask Eeyore. But his is even more obvious considering he was a total weakling before he found his "gluten-free" diet in 2011. Totally believable how he turned into a beast overnight. Nothing suspicious at all about him.

That is a ridiculous argument. In that case, one could easily say that Fed was a solid top 15 player (his ranking in his early 20s) and all of a sudden suspiciously became an all time great. Djokovic was #6 when he hit 20 (Nadal was already #2) and Fed was # 14 at same age. Hum, how did Fed overcome his natural mediocrity?
Absurd reasoning. + Djoko was not a "mediocre player for years". He won his 1st Miami title at 19. The same year, he won Canada by beating #1, 2, 3 back to back and made his 1st slam final. He would win his second slam final a few months later. 2 consecutive slam finals at the age of 20, how little promise did such a player show, right? Let's be serious here.

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and accomplished all of that during his on and off years. it was mostly lackluster play from him with a few tourney wins in between. he was still a good player though.

dopers are great at what they do, but with peds, theyre level a play turns superhuman and its evident by the results. going basically undefeated for 2011 proves this whilst before that he was still just djokovic, a murray who was always behind nadal and federer.

and again, i wouldnt be saying this if we didnt get tipsarevics rise at the same time. i just find the relationship suspicious.

what a coincidence that they were both mediocre for years and suddenly both jump to top of the rankings within a year. i'd buy it if maybe djokovic got to the top alone, but with his superhuman play the past two years and tipsarevic somehow breaking into the top 10 at the same time, questioning their fair play is deserved.

i hope djokovic gets exposed.

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Agreed. They all dope but the most obvious doper of all of them is Eeyore.

and accomplished all of that during his on and off years. it was mostly lackluster play from him with a few tourney wins in between. he was still a good player though.

dopers are great at what they do, but with peds, theyre level a play turns superhuman and its evident by the results. going basically undefeated for 2011 proves this whilst before that he was still just djokovic, a murray who was always behind nadal and federer.

and again, i wouldnt be saying this if we didnt get tipsarevics rise at the same time. i just find the relationship suspicious.

and accomplished all of that during his on and off years. it was mostly lackluster play from him with a few tourney wins in between. he was still a good player though.

dopers are great at what they do, but with peds, theyre level a play turns superhuman and its evident by the results. going basically undefeated for 2011 proves this whilst before that he was still just djokovic, a murray who was always behind nadal and federer.

and again, i wouldnt be saying this if we didnt get tipsarevics rise at the same time. i just find the relationship suspicious.

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The Tipsarevic rise? :shock: I must have missed it :lol:

ETA: you cannot single out a few top players you don't like and claim the others are "pure". That's the flaw in your reasoning. Let's say Djoko is doped to the eyes. You want me to believe that "clean" Fed can stay toe to toe with him and even beat him... at the age of 30+ ??? No way, jose. They either all dope or they don't, which makes the attempt at singling out some players futile and disingenuous.

ETA: you cannot single out a few top players you don't like and claim the others are "pure". That's the flaw in your reasoning. Let's say Djoko is doped to the eyes. You want me to believe that "clean" Fed can stay toe to toe with him and even beat him... at the age of 30+ ??? No way, jose. They either all dope or they don't, which makes the attempt at singling out some players futile and disingenuous.

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Actually Tipsarevic did rise up the rankings quite a bit. He went from being #49 at the beginning of 2011 (just after Serbia won the Davis Cup) to #9 at the end of 2011, and he's since stayed pretty much in the same spot for all of 2012. Not saying anything about him doping, but he did rise a fair bit.

what a coincidence that they were both mediocre for years and suddenly both jump to top of the rankings within a year. i'd buy it if maybe djokovic got to the top alone, but with his superhuman play the past two years and tipsarevic somehow breaking into the top 10 at the same time, questioning their fair play is deserved.

i hope djokovic gets exposed.

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Djokovic has been "mediocre for years"? Wow. Are you serious? He reached the QF of the French Open at age 19 and the U.S. Open at 20, losing to Nadal and Federer, the greatest clay courter of all time and the greatest PLAYER of all time.

If that's mediocre, then how would you describe the rest of the tour? And to describe Djokovic in the same manner in which you describe Tipsarevic demonstrates how little you actually know about the sport.

Djokovic has been "mediocre for years"? Wow. Are you serious? He reached the QF of the French Open at age 19 and the U.S. Open at 20, losing to Nadal and Federer, the greatest clay courter of all time and the greatest PLAYER of all time.

If that's mediocre, then how would you describe the rest of the tour? And to describe Djokovic in the same manner in which you describe Tipsarevic demonstrates how little you actually know about the sport.

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Exactly.

Djokovic was destined for success from the very start, you could see he had that special something in him. And for him to be playing in an era where you have the widely acclaimed Clay GOAT, and the GOAT himself playing, and to beat them both and take slams away from them just shows what an incredible player Novak is.

That is a ridiculous argument. In that case, one could easily say that Fed was a solid top 15 player (his ranking in his early 20s) and all of a sudden suspiciously became an all time great. Djokovic was #6 when he hit 20 (Nadal was already #2) and Fed was # 14 at same age. Hum, how did Fed overcome his natural mediocrity?
Absurd reasoning. + Djoko was not a "mediocre player for years". He won his 1st Miami title at 19. The same year, he won Canada by beating #1, 2, 3 back to back and made his 1st slam final. He would win his second slam final a few months later. 2 consecutive slam finals at the age of 20, how little promise did such a player show, right? Let's be serious here.

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No, you need to be serious here. Federer was always talked about as a talented teenager from the get go. He was never mediocre. He had his issues with consistency and the mental aspect. Did he use something to help get over the hump? Probably. Re Djokovic, there is no doubt he is using something, you just need to look at his 2011 year. Gluten-free? Ha, ha, ha, right! It is Nadal however who is at the heart of the controversy right now and there can be little doubt about his case. PED's are a part of pro athletics, they are the norm rather than the exception for elite athletes.

No, you need to be serious here. Federer was always talked about as a talented teenager from the get go. He was never mediocre. He has his issues with consistency and the mental aspect. Did he use something to help get over the hump? Probably. Re Djokovic, there is no doubt he is using something, you just need to look at his 2011 year. Gluten-free? Ha, ha, ha, right! It is Nadal however who is at the heart of the controversy right now and there can be little doubt about his case. PED's are a part of pro athletics, they are the norm rather than the exception for elite athletes.

Djokovic has been "mediocre for years"? Wow. Are you serious? He reached the QF of the French Open at age 19 and the U.S. Open at 20, losing to Nadal and Federer, the greatest clay courter of all time and the greatest PLAYER of all time.

If that's mediocre, then how would you describe the rest of the tour? And to describe Djokovic in the same manner in which you describe Tipsarevic demonstrates how little you actually know about the sport.

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yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best. he suprised us a few times as i mentioned, but later fell into a slump for quite a bit. and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

yeh, he was mediocre compared to the best. he suprised us a few times as i mentioned, but later fell into a slump for quite a bit. and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

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All this Nadal thing has done is put all the pieces together for a lot of us. For those of you that want to believe your favorite player is clean, keep on keeping on.

Djoker is very obvious. As said in the post above, the guy was consistently running out of gas and/or retiring from matches in the heat or when it got tough. Out of nowhere as said, he plays 6 1/2 hours beating the arguably best cardio man of all time in tennis....how do you not put 2 and 2 together? It isn't even a question of whether they do or not, because they do - it is simply if they got caught or not.

All this Nadal thing has done is put all the pieces together for a lot of us. For those of you that want to believe your favorite player is clean, keep on keeping on.

Djoker is very obvious. As said in the post above, the guy was consistently running out of gas and/or retiring from matches in the heat or when it got tough. Out of nowhere as said, he plays 6 1/2 hours beating the arguably best cardio man of all time in tennis....how do you not put 2 and 2 together? It isn't even a question of whether they do or not, because they do - it is simply if they got caught or not.

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That is it, and most of the elite stars will not get caught at least while they are still active. The system is set up so that they don't get caught.

what a coincidence that they were both mediocre for years and suddenly both jump to top of the rankings within a year. i'd buy it if maybe djokovic got to the top alone, but with his superhuman play the past two years and tipsarevic somehow breaking into the top 10 at the same time, questioning their fair play is deserved.

i hope djokovic gets exposed.

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Novak ended the year at #3 every year since 2007, you call that mediocre? He was already a slam winner, multiple slam finalist, reached SF in all 4 slams and had 5 masters titles to his name all before 2011, he was far more accomplished than say Fed was right before he had his boom year in 2004.

and then out of nowhere, BOOM. 72-6 record and all of a sudden he's like superman, running through every player with ease.

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Just not true, the only tourney in which he ran through every player with ease was 2011 AO which is something he also did in 2008 at the same tourney, at FO he lost to a nearly 30 year old Fed, in Wimbledon he struggled with Tomic, Tsonga etc. and in USO again 30 year old Fed gave him tons of trouble.

Not to mention the very poor ending of the season in which he was getting bageled by Nishikori.

and as someone else mentioned, what do you call tipsarevic going from top 100 to top 10? more importantly, right around the time djokovic had his run?

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Tipsarevic didn't went from top 100 to top 10 just like that, he spent 4 years in a row in top 50 (one of them was in top 40 actually) before reaching top 10 in 2011, similar situations happens fairly often, see Davydenko or Verdasco, Wawrinka, Almagro, Melzer etc.

The field outside the big 4 is pretty shallow at the moment, it's no surprise that a talented headcase like Janko reached top 10 once he found some consistency.