SALVATION

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Well-known member

Ok..agreed with you for the most part..but we get "SAVED" by our CHOICE (to accept or reject ...after that..readung the Bible..learning how we should and SUBMITTING to God our sinful ways..only THEN can God start transforming us..some people dont like to submit certain areas of thier lives or arent "convicted" about areas in thier lives..thats between them and God..but "by thier fruits you shall know them"...no fruit.."sick" heart..AND NO..not saying that if we arent producing fruit we arent SAVED ..but biblically it talks about "pruning' tooo..OUCH..lol

Any action on man's part such as accepting, repenting, believing etc are "works" and we are not saved eternally by our works, however we are saved ( delivered ) by our good works in following God's commandments almost daily as we live our lives here on earth. The Greek interpretation for saved = deliverance. We are delivered by God's grace ( unmerited favor ) eternally and we are delivered by our good works ( accepting, repenting, believing etc ) while we are living on this earth. All scripture must harmonize.

I am trying to understand what point you are trying to make. I do know that God never fails and accomplishes his will. Danial 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing, and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Well-known member

Any action on man's part such as accepting, repenting, believing etc are "works" and we are not saved eternally by our works, however we are saved ( delivered ) by our good works in following God's commandments almost daily as we live our lives here on earth. The Greek interpretation for saved = deliverance. We are delivered by God's grace ( unmerited favor ) eternally and we are delivered by our good works ( accepting, repenting, believing etc ) while we are living on this earth. All scripture must harmonize.

Well-known member

I wish I had more time to dialogue with you, but, unfortunately, I don't! I would love to look at Scriptures and discuss this concept in more detail . . . I like your attitude and seriousness . . . but here in a few sentences is a summary of my thinking . . .

I will comment on this comment you made: "Like I have said, "most of the salvation scriptures are talking about being delivered while we are here on earth", so, there is a salvation by works (which is here on earth) and there is a salvation eternally by God's grace apart from man's works."

(1) No problem with your differentiation of two kinds of salvation Scriptures - good insight, though I don't think it is nearly as clear as you are saying it is . . .

(2) Anytime you say "salvation by works" on CC you are going to get an immediate and loud reaction and most of the people here will shut you off immediately as a heretic and a works-salvationist. I think a careful reading of what you are saying shows this is not what you are, though!

(3) I understand you as saying that if we obey Christ in our daily lives that this will deliver us physically while we are here on earth.

(4) In response to #3, I think you are right that the way that one lives will have a direct effect on one's life on Earth. This is true even for an unbeliever.

(5) The problem is that the two "salvations" are not as easily separable as you imply. By what you say, thus if we live right on Earth and do all the good works we can and should we will be "delivered" here on Earth - hence - the believer if he is obedient will not have problems, sickness, persecution, etc. - now I don't know if you believe that or not, but it is a direct corollary of the teaching you are promoting here.

(6) I do not believe that the Christian if he is obedient will not have sickness, difficulties, or persecution. It is always our faith in Christ and not our works that are the core of our relationship with the Saviour.

(7) So, yes, works are important, and the believer who does works will find positive results in this life here on Earth, but those works come out of his faith in Christ, which still makes all the positive results because of Jesus Christ.

Thank you Chester. I am a firm believer that before anyone can understand the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught, he has to deny himself ( quit depending upon his own intellect ) and the Holy Spirit within him has to reveal the understanding of the scriptures to him. I assure you that I believe trials, tribulations, sickness and difficult times are more upon God's children than those that are not his. Psalms 73:5, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they PLAGUED ( Greek interpretation of plagued in this verse is DIVINELY PUNISHED ) Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore, and repent. The verse in Psalms tells us that God does not love those that are not his elect. Rom 9:13, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Well-known member

Thank you Chester. I am a firm believer that before anyone can understand the truth of the doctrine that Jesus taught, he has to deny himself ( quit depending upon his own intellect ) and the Holy Spirit within him has to reveal the understanding of the scriptures to him. I assure you that I believe trials, tribulations, sickness and difficult times are more upon God's children than those that are not his. Psalms 73:5, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they PLAGUED ( Greek interpretation of plagued in this verse is DIVINELY PUNISHED ) Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore, and repent. The verse in Psalms tells us that God does not love those that are not his elect. Rom 9:13, As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Senior Member

I am trying to understand what point you are trying to make. I do know that God never fails and accomplishes his will. Danial 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing, and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

I did not say that salvation (deliverance ) to eternal life came by obeying God's commandments. I did say that salvation ( deliverance ) in the here in time as we live on this earth is accomplished by our obedience to God's commandments. BIG DEFERENCE!

Senior Member

I did not say that salvation (deliverance ) to eternal life came by obeying God's commandments. I did say that salvation ( deliverance ) in the here in time as we live on this earth is accomplished by our obedience to God's commandments. BIG DEFERENCE!

Well-known member

well I already know the answers you will give in response the the verses, but here goes. You said I did not use scripture but here are 4 I used whcih anyone who knows the word would know they are the word of God and not made up stuff.

1. I said jesus died for the world. can you tell me what scripture that is?2. I said Jesus died that whoever believes wil be given eternal life. Can you tell me what scripture that is?3. I said it was the will of the father that whoever sees the son and believes in him, will never die, be given eternal life, and be resurrected by him, Can you tell me that scripture?4. I used the passage which says no greater love has any man, do you know where that is?

of course these are just 4 examples. Yet you said I did not use scripture. which can only lead me to wonder if your reading anything I post at all.

as I have said before, I do not reference other men's writings, nor do I consider other men's comments that are not backed up by the King James scriptures by book, chapter and verse. You seem to not give book, chapter and verse on your comments and it is hard, sometimes, for me to know where you get your comments from because you use a different version of the bible than I do.