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July 19, 20114:00 - 5:00pm PDT

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here in north america, "john king, usa" starts right now. thanks, wolf, and good evening, everyone. tonight what you might call rupert murdoch's pontius pilate moment, he's sorry and a illegal reporting tactics, but he washes his hands when asked if he is ultimately responsible. >> no. >> you're not responsible? who is responsible? >> the people that i trusted to run it and then maybe the people they trusted. plus, michele bachmann responds to former aides who anonymously allege that the rising force in the presidential field suffers from migraines so debilitating they could undermine her ability to lead. >> i am prescribed medication that i take on occasion whenever symptoms arise and they keep my migraines under control. but i'd like to be abundantly clear, my ability to function

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effectively will not affect my ability to serve as commander in chief. >> dr. sanjay gupta will join us for a reality check. but up first, live action in the house of representatives and how it impacts a search for a deal to keep the government from a default most economist say could derail the already fragile recovery. this hour you see right there live debate. the house is expected by the end of this hour to pass the republican majority's cut, cap and balance plan. it would cut federal spending, then cap that spending and the house republicans also want a constitutional amendment requiring washington to balance its budget every year. as we watch the debate and the vote, this important footnote, this plan has absolutely zero chance of taking effect. so, why are you watching you might ask? this is for better or worse part of an important washington ritual, house republicans want their vote on their plan. the senate in the days ahead will also take votes on spending ideas that have no chance of taking effect. it may appear to you at home a waste of time. but in this town, it's a way to

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help make clear what is and what isn't possible. which is why the president today said, fine, take a few votes if you insist, but quickly, please. >> all right, if we continue to go through a lot of political posturing, if both sides continue to be dug in, if we don't have a basic spirit of cooperation that allows us to rise above immediate election-year politics and actually solve problems, then i think markets here, the american people, and the international community are going to start reacting adversary fairly quickly. >> down a bit yesterday, but the markets bounced back today, apparently convinced something will be worked out in washington before the august 2nd debt ceiling deadline. adding to the confidence perhaps a new senate plan. it is bipartisan, it includes a mix of spending cuts and new tax revenues and it has the president's general blessing. but it also has a lot of critics on both the left and the right. so, let's watch the house vote

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and assess where we stand in the broader debt and deficit debate with our chief white house court, jessica yellin, kate bolduan and gloria borger. the house republicans say it has absolutely no chance to pass, but the house majority leader eric cantor today saying the new republican majority wants to make an important point. let's listen. >> today, the house has the opportunity to show the people that sent us here that we are serious about turning the page on the failed fiscal policies that this town has been about over the last several decades, and begin to get the fiscal house in order. >> seems to be no question, kate, by the end of this hour they're likely to pass this plan, but then what on the house side? >> reporter: then what on the house side is a good question. i think eric cantor -- and you summed it up well -- this is going to end up being a symbolic vote for house republicans. it's allowing them to show their

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constituents very importantly as well as throw their support behind very much deeper spending cuts and stricter spending controls than realistically will be part of any kind of compromise deal to raise the house ceiling. john boehner, john, earlier before the vote, he acknowledged while he has high hopes for cut, cap and balance he said they're considering other options, a plan "b" if you will, but he's not tipping his hand on what plan "b" might be, but everyone points to the mcconnell/reid plan, as the fallback plan, but it doesn't seem that members are at that point quite yet. >> not quite yet, we've got a little bit of time for finger-pointing. and, jess, the president every couple of days has to come in and make clear where he stands. the conversation in town is almost to the degree that the president has been pushed to the sidelines and even speaker boehner has been pushed to the sidelines and the deal will be crafted in the senate. do they accept that in the white house? >> no. the white house is hopeful after the vote that maybe there will

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be a new understanding by the house leadership that they have to come off this rigid position that there has to be a dollar in spending cuts for every dollar that the debt ceiling is raised or that there can be no revenue increases and maybe there can still be a deal found. there's still a glimmer of hope for that. there's also an awareness that the mcconnell/reid plan is still the other likely other option, but there always is in the obama world, hope. >> hope in the obama world. i want you to listen, gloria, senator lamar alexander, he came out and embraced and made it the gang of seven. we'll break down the gang of six later, and we'll talk to two key members, democratic and a republican. and listen to lamar alexander were, again, he's a conservative republican from tennessee and he's saying look at these people who are saying, i get it, we have to do some revenue increases -- >> i mean, senators crapo and coburn and chambliss are three

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of the most conservative members of the republican caucus and they study something for six months and tell me it's good for the country, as one senator, i support it. >> it means a lotto the former governor and now the senator from tennessee. can they sell it to the house republicans? >> that's a big question. i think what we saw today both from president obama and someone like lamar alexander is this isolation that going on of the house republicans, saying, look, the gang of six got a deal, that's why president obama went out this to say it. mitch mcconnell's got a backup plan. john boehner and i were kind of working together and, well, who's out of that picture? the house republicans. and the polls are increasingly showing that the house republican point of view is not popular with the american public. i mean, there's a "washington post" out -- poll out tonight that says that more than three-quarters of americans see

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the republican leadership as being too resistant. >> however, however, let's listen as we go back to kate bolduan on the hill, the democrats are reading the polls. the democratic leadership going to the floor essentially saying, republicans, why are you wasting our time? >> the public has had it with this theater of the absurd that's going on. they want congress to come together as our president has suggested and do the most important thing that we can, create jobs for the american people. >> so, kate, the democrats clearly see the national poll trends, but i think what gets lost sometimes even in this town, especially across the country, the people are saying if the polls show that, why aren't the house republicans moving. more than 200 have signed a pledge saying they won't raise taxes. many of them ran in campaigns where they said this was the

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defining fight, and nanny of them despite the national polls, kate, am i right, feel they can go home to their district and say i did exactly what you asked me to do? >> reporter: that's absolutely spot-on. and to further the point. just today we're hearing of a concerted effort of house republicans in light of the more discussion about the mcconnell/reid plan, a concerted effort of 20 house republicans, possibly more, led by a tea party freshman, joe walsh, sent a letter to speaker boehner, who said we don't support the fallback plan, but they don't want the house speaker or eric can'ter to bring it to the floor because they do not want any compromise. they do not see a reason to budge, and simply put, they are not accepting any kind of -- anything to be -- that could be construed as a tax increase, albeit that's probably not part of the mcconnell/reid plan at this point. so, they don't see the advantage in compromise, some of them, at this point, because that's what they ran on, john. >> where do we go now? let it play out on capitol hill?

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does the president plan to bring them back around the cabinet room cabltable? >> yeah, i expect there will be more meetings. the president will try to nudge more to get his revenues involved and his balanced approached. the mcconnell/reid plan is the likely outcome, we know that. they don't know how it will end in the end. no one knows how it will end. >> a senior republican described it to me as the break-glass kit. you have it there behind the glass and in the emergency you break it and you pull it out, and, you know, he said the cut, cap and balance plan is a way for the house republicans to let off steam. >> let off some steam. we'll talk about it later in the hour, jess, gloria, kate, with us as the house debates their plan. we'll watch the vote. when we come back, presidential politics and an allegation from former aides of michele bachmann suggesting that he has a condition that could keep her from serving as president. our dr. sanjay gupta after the break. there's a nurse who can access in an instant

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one of the presidential candidates moves up the polls as far as fast as michele bachmann, you know the attacks and questions will soon follow. today bachmann responded a report in the "daily caller"

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quoting anonymous former staffers who says she suffers from headaches so incapacitating that they send her to the hospital. here's what the congresswoman told reporters today in south carolina. >> like nearly 30 million other americans i experience migraines that are easily controllable with medication. since entering this campaign for the presidency, i've maintained a full schedule between my duties as a congresswoman and as a presidential candidate traveling across the nation to meet with voters in the key all-important states, early states, of south carolina, iowa, and new hampshire. >> cnn's chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta is with us. now, doctor, tell us, first, stress-induced migraines, what are we talking about >>? >> when you talk about migraines, you are usually talking about migraine headaches, and it's a bunch of neurological things associated with it, people can be nauseated and can have vomiting and sensitivity to light, but it's usually the headache that characterizes these types of things. they occur typically on one side

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of the head which is a way to characterize or differentiate it from other headaches. stress-induced, john, as you might triggers for the headaches and stress can be one of the common ones. people that have stress, lack of sleep associated with that, that can bring on one of the higrain headaches. a lot of people will have some sort of aura so to speak, they'll have some idea that the headache is going to come on. they may get an hour or so notice, but if it comes on and not treated, it could be painful and last four hours to three days, it can be a pretty big deal, john. >> could it incapacitate a president? >> well, you know, if someone is untreated, you know, it can be debilitating to where someone needs to be in a darkened room to be away from light, and take pain medications to control the headache. but when you talk about treatment, it can be treated easily. miss bachmann said 30 million people in the country have the migraine headaches, that's about

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right. it's a common ailment and something that neurologists have gotten a pretty good handle on if people seek out treatment. >> and you mentioned patients usually feel it, they have the aura, they feel it coming. what kind of medications are we talking about and there are side effects to worry about? >> divide the medications in two broad categories, one is the abortive medication, it's not something you take daily, but if you feel it coming on, you take the abortive medication to stop it from taking full hold. i think that's what she was referring to that she takes. she takes the medication if she needs it. the others are preventive medications and you could take them daily to try to prevent the headaches ever coming on or ever developing the aura even, and if you take those 80% to 90% of the people have pretty good results with this, with pretty good low side effect profile. there are some medications studied that may have impact on the heart. tolerated by tens of millions of

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people. >> we've asked the campaign we should make clear specifically which medications they take, and they've not responded and we hope they will. if i have pain, someone could tell me to take tylenol or percocet and there's a scale of drugs for simple pain. same here? >> yes. i think that's very fair to say. i will disclose to you, i suffer from migraines as well and the simple sort of tylenol or, you know, an ibuprofen won't cut it if it's come on full bore. if you talk about the type of medications you're describing, especially the narcotics, that's what some people are forced to take if they are not taking the preventive medications and the headache comes on full untreated then, you know, analgesics strong ones at that are sometimes the only option. >> dr. gupta, appreciate your insights. >> thanks, john. and later rupert murdoch

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said he's the best person to clean up the bribery and hacking scandal engulfing his british newspapers. members of the american postal worker's union handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? millions? tens of millions? hundreds of millions? not a single cent. the united states postal service doesn't run on your tax dollars. it's funded solely by stamps and postage. brought to you by the men and women

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welcome back. here's the latest news you need to know right now. the fbi's arrested 16 people for alleged cyberattacks, most thought to be connected with the hacker group anonymous,

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hacked credit card s. and apple reported $7 billion in sales thanks to ipads. and diane fine sten is sponsoring a federal bill to repeal the defense of marriage act. new york city is holding a lottery to pick 764 couples to get married this sunday, the first day, same-sex marriage is legal in the state of new york. a u.s. spacecraft has sent back the first close-up since orbiting the solar system's third largest asteroid, it's vesta and it's never been seen this clearly. still to come, rupert murdoch answers parliament's questions about the tabloid hacking scandal in great britain. no, he's not responsible, he says. and, no, he's not quitting. wer . while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing decades of cleaner burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self contained well systems

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a normally obscure committee in the british parliament was the stage for a globe media event. news corporation international ceo's rupert murdoch and his son james and another deputy were questioned for hours about the tabloid hacking scandal. rupert murdoch said he was sorry, repeatedly said he had no knowledge of the illegal cell phone hacking and the police bribes that helped his "news of the world" tabloid break the stories about celebrities and even british crime victims. >> ultimately you are responsible for the whole fiasco? >> no. >> you are not responsible? who is responsible? >> the people that i trusted to run it, and then maybe the

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people they trusted. >> this total thing happened on your watch. mr. murdoch, have you considered resigning? >> no. >> why not? >> because i feel that people i trusted, i don't know what level, they let me down, and i think they behaved disgracefully, betrayed the company and me, and it's a debt to pay. i think that frankly i'm the best person to clean this up. >> both murdochs said they had no evidence, no evidence, that american victims of the 9/11 attacks were subjected to the sleazy tactics and rupert murdoch spoke of his personal apology to the family of millie doweler a british schoolgirl who was murdered in 2002 and whose cell phone messages were hacked by "news of the world." >> at no time do i remember being as sickened as when i heard what the doweler family

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had to endure which i think was last monday week. nor do i recall being as angry as when i was told that the "news of the world" could have compounded their distress. i want to thank the dowlers for graciously giving me the opportunity to apologize in person. >> let's check in with cnn's richard quest in london who was watching the proceedings throughout the day. and, richard, here you have richard rupert who built the global media empire, he said he's humbled and sorry but also said he's not responsible. how will that fly in the wake of this blossoming scandal? >> yes, his line that he wasn't responsible was a wonderful bit of orchestra when taken into four contexts. he said i'm not responsible, but because i put my trust in other people and they have let me down. now, americans may find that to

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be a little disingenuous, a little difficult, because the american responsibility idea of the buck stops here, right, the way to the president's desk, and even if you didn't make the decision, you carry the can. he was basically saying, i'm going to clean up the mess that other people who i trusted and other people have let me down and misled me. it's a -- it's a -- it's a nice argument, if you like, but i'm not sure it was the argument that needed to be made today. >> you say the buck stops here is one of the way we say things here. we also sometimes say, this might actually come from your side of the pond, the captain goes down with the ship. mr. murdoch made very clear he's not going and not considering it. he said he needs to stay and he needs to clean it up. but listen to him, yes, admitting that, yes, his tabloids really did do heinous things. >> invading people's privacy and listening to their voice mail is wrong. paying police officers for information is wrong.

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they are inconsistent with our codes of conduct and neither has anyplace in any part of the company that i run. the same sorry is not enough. things must be put right. no excuses. >> that's a pretty straightforward statement, no excuses, things must be put right. i guess my question is, it is at odds somewhat with this man's reputation as a guy who to his credit built a very wealthy, huge media conglomerate and most people would say through a lot of hands-on management. >> and the interesting thing about this was the difference in the answers between rupert murdoch and his son james. when rupert murdoch answered, yes, there were some very long pauses and you wondered whether perhaps he'd forgotten the question. but then would come the definitive answer. no. yes. we will do it. i haven't thought about it. i wasn't informed about it. it's not my responsibility. and then you get james murdoch,

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when he answered, long, rambling answers, that seemed to just go round in circles. circumlocution of the worst sort. the difference between the two was quite -- i found was quite noticeable. what we got from rupert murdoch i think today was a -- was a man who has been fairly shocked by what has been discovered. after all, as you said, he's been doing it for five decades. he has more than 200 papers. he was brought up in a newspaper newsroom since he was knee high to agrasshopper. for him to witness an unacceptable, deplorable activities, one can see how this is. where does this all take us from where we heard today? frankly not much further. because what we didn't get was an account of how these men and rebekah brooks allowed or

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created or allowed to exist a culture that these things could happen and they didn't know about it. >> and it was profound theater to begin with, and as you mentioned, a lot of questions we would still like answered. we'll see how that plays out, but in the middle of this theater, a subplot, if you will. somebody tries to pie rupert murdoch. describe the scene as you recall it and especially i would say a rather feisty defense of mr. murdoch by his wife. >> oh, i mean, well, we're watching from the back. the picture -- all of a sudden, the noise. you see this woman in pink launch herself, going to give somebody a right hook. you then see james murdoch get out the chair like this. now, at first i couldn't tell whether mr. murdoch sr. had been hit. you can then -- in later pictures if you look close, you can see the foam. more than one person suggested that, you know, this could have been a brick, it could have been, you know, nails, it could

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have been much more serious. you have to bear in mind if it had been anything like that, it wouldn't have got into the room. we don't know how he got in with some shaving foam. he could have said he was just been home doing the weekly shopping. who knows? it was serious, but not because it could have been a much more vicious attack. it was serious because it was a disgrace. because anybody coming to give evidence in the mother of parliaments has a right to do so with dignity and in courtesy. >> amen to that. and that is -- those disruptions something we see many times in the u.s. congress as well. richard quest thanks for your remarkable reporting today on this remarkable story. thank you. let's dig deeper and continue, joanne litman is a columnist for the daily beast. and i want you to watch rupert murdoch and acknowledges very frankly that it was not his best day. >> i would like to say, in one

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sentence, this is the most humble day of my life. >> the most humble day of his life. as someone who has met him and understands his empire, what to you is the most significant thing that he said or that happened today? >> the most interesting thing i think today the rupert murdoch who we saw testifying was as you pointed out really at odds with the rupert murdoch that i and many other people have personed over the years, and that is that he generally is very charismatic and funny and he's always the most powerful person in the room. this is a man who when you go to the davos world economic forum which is a forum for world leaders and executives, when he walks into the room, they all turn and watch him. so, to see this man physically looking depleted, just not even looking like himself, and then for him to be saying, you know, i didn't know. i have 52,000 people working for me. i just really how could i

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possibly know. it was really very much at odds with this guy. the other thing, you know, murdoch is legendary for his command of the details, particularly in his newspaper empire. he pretty famously said when he bought "the wall street journal," one of the first things he said is this newspaper has too many editors and i know because i calculated that every piece of copy is touched by 8.3 editors. now, that man with that command of detail is not at all the man we saw today on the stand. >> and so you have that, you make that case quite passionately. jeff, i want you to comment on why it would matter. but first i want you to listen to a different take from our piers morgan who also knows rupert murdoch. >> when he says that he didn't have much day-to-day contact with these papers, that's true. i spoke to an editor of "news of the world" maybe once a week, maybe once every two weeks. he never asked me about methodology of stories, he didn't have time.

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he would say what's going on and you would tell him what stories you had, and he'd be in a position where i'm sure he thought i had editors and managers and accountants and they do all the box ticking here, my job is to get an overview what's going on. i think when you run a company of 50,000 people it is a bit ridiculous to expect rupert murdoch to be all over the microdetail of how each individual part of these companies gets run. >> so, jeff, you have piers' perspective and joanne's perspective which is quite differently and she cites the example of the "wall street journal." why is it the committee or a court finds out the exact truth, why might it matter legally? >> under british law, if you authorize hacking, you are guilty of a crime. remember, rebekah brooks who supervised the "news of the world," she's currently under arrest. so, rupert murdoch couldn't be in the business of acknowledging what seemed fairly obvious with

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all due respect to our colleague, piers. thises wasn't a question of not supervising the newspaper, this was not reading the newspaper. i mean, it was obvious if you read "news of the world" that they were in people's voice mail. i mean, so the idea that murdoch, sr., murdoch jr., didn't know that they were reading people's voice mails, much less rebekah brooks seems pretty preposterous to me. >> joanne, where do you see this heading? obviously you have the parliamentary inquiry and legal inqui inquiry, but in terms of the legacy of a proud man, you mentioned his aperns ppearance davos and he takes great pride in his empire, what has it done to the legacy of rupert murdoch? >> i think do you know what, one of the most key things he said the entire day was when he said, no, i will not resign because i'm the one that is best prepared to clean this up.

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and i think that he really feels he did build this company, his father left him a small newspaper, he built it over 57 years into this massive empire, and it was almost poignant today when he spoke about his father and his father was not a rich man. but he was a great journalist. and then he spoke about how he wanted to be able to then leave the company to his own children, to his daughters and his sons should they want to be involved. and i think that that's foremost in his mind. it's interesting while everyone in the room was focused very narrowly on the hacking and on the wrongdoing at the newspapers, i think that rupert murdoch was most likely focused on the much bigger, longer-term picture, which is what will be his legacy and protecting that legacy. he did pull his company back from the brink. 20 years ago he came very, very close to the edge financially. he overextended. he was deeply in debt. and he actually -- he renegotiated with his bankers. with his characteristic tenacity, he dug in there, he

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sold publications. he was tremendously successful in bringing it back from the brink but that was 20 years ago and he's now an 80-year-old man who really wants to make sure that his legacy is preserved and that he can pass that along to his children. >> as we watch it play out, rupert murdoch said he'll day. jeff toobin, with the former prosecutor's instincts, what is your take from today, what would you be looking for based on what you heard from today? >> i would say just for starters there's virtually no evidence that says that rupert murdoch or anyone in this company violated u.s. law. i think it is far fetched to think there was any sort of criminal violation inside the united states. so, i think we can sort of cross this off the list. i do think that lots of people involved in this company are going to be prosecuted in great britain, and that is a big, big problem. and not so much because i think murdoch is going to be criminally cro criminally prosecuted, but the

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question is the very docile board of directors of news corporation, which is so dominated by the murdoch family, are the outside directors going to say, look, this is too much of a distraction, too much of a humiliation, to have these murdochs who were at best asleep at the switch, still in charge of the company? and that's the real peril at this point, it's will murdoch be in charge, will the murdoch family keep control, not will they be prosecuted, not will they go to jail. the issue is will they keep control of rupert murdoch's lifelong. >> excellent points. we'll keep track of this one. the members gang of six who might or hope have a plan, it could be the breakthrough washington needs to start getting out of the debt crisis. as we go to break, remember, we're watching a live vote from the house of representatives from a republican plan that is key to what they say key to the debt crisis. we'll keep track of the vote. needless to say the president disagrees. [ male announcer ] introducing the ultimate business phone --

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this is unsustainable. >> live pictures there of the house of representatives. the house budget committee chairman paul ryan giving his view of why washington has a debt and deficit crisis. the house to vote in just a few minutes on a significant house republican plan. that's on the house side. on the senate side today, these guys right here, a bipartisan group known of the gang of six, three democrats and three republicans, they've put out their proposals that they believe could help washington out of the debt and deficit crisis. let's look at some of the details. it would cut the deficit by $4

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trillion over ten years. here's the immediate cuts, $500 billion, it would adjust how social security recipients get inflation adjustments and freeze congressional pay and sell unused federal property. that would start to get you to cuts of $500 billion. and it would make nearly $300 billion in medicaid savings, they are called reforms and others will call them cuts. and changes to medicare, reimbursements to doctors. here's the big part, three republicans are saying the federal government needs more money in tax revenues. they would get a trillion dollars, they would actually cut rates and simplify the tax code. three tax brackets, repeal the alternative minimum tax and have a single corporate tax rate. they say getting rid of the loopholes makes it simpler. for most people, taxes would go down and washington would get more money and would tell the key committees in congress you have to come up with budget savings. the military, $80 billion. health and education programs, $70 billion. you see the list going down here. these are the cuts. they have tax revenues as well. they touch entitlement programs

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and they want to move quickly to get to nearly $4 trillion. now that the plan is out, the problem is selling it. so, let's go up to capitol hill to check in with two members of this so-called gang of six, senator kent conrad of north dakota is a democrat, saxby chambliss of north carolina is a republican. gentlemen, i've explained the details in the plan, but i want to start by listening to the president today, he came into the white house briefing room, he didn't say he loved everything, but he did offer high praise. >> and so for us to see democratic senators acknowledge that we've got to deal with the long-term debt problems that arise out of our various entitlement programs and for republican senators to acknowledges that revenues will have to be part of a balanced package that makes sure that nobody is disproportionately hurt from us making progress on the debt and deficits, i think is a very significant step. >> and yet, senator conrad, let me start with you first, the

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democrats control the senate. the number two, dick durbin, said this plan while he might like parts of it, quote, is not ready for prime time and can't be considered as part of the train we're on right now that's approaching this august 2nd deadline for possible default. why not? >> the point that he's making is to get it scored, to get it in legislative draft language within two weeks, that's a challenge. but he has come up with a number of innovative and creative ideas about how it might be included in what's considered. so, look, the important thing is republicans and democrats have come together around a comprehensive plan that reforms the entitlements, reforms the tax code of the united states, and cuts spending. reduces the debt by almost $4 trillion over the next ten years, and, you know, you had 50 senators at a meeting this morning, the vast majority saying, hey, this is headed in the right direction. >> the problem is the other side of the capitol, where as you know the house republican majority has said flat out, no

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way. and a lot of those new members, more than 200 of them, have signed pledges say we will not under any circumstances raise taxes. how would you walk across the capitol, senator chambliss, and say, look, i know you don't want to do it, but here's why you have to do it? >> look, john, what they've said is, the same thing i've said, they don't like tax increases. this is a huge tax rate decrease. under the law it will be scored as a trillion dollar tax cut. but at the same time when you reform the tax code, just like kent was just saying, what we've been able to do is to make major reductions in tax rates, by the elimination of tax expenditures and tax credits, lower the corporate rate so that we can take some of this capital that's sitting on the sidelines and have it reinvested in america, create more jobs, energize the economy, that's the way we need to get to raise revenue -- get to raise revenues and that's what our proposal's going to do.

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>> and let me stay with the republican in the group. why, then, on the other side won't they have that conversation and say as long as we get that, as long as we get that now, we're willing to go along? you've seen what's happened over the past couple weeks, senator, everyone is back in their corner. >> well, i think it is incumbent on the house to look at this. they may not pass exactly the bill that we may pass over here. that's their prerogative. but this is a foundation. this is a way forward. not just for the debt ceiling, because we have never been focused on that. kent and the other four members and i have always been focused, john, on the long-term issue of trying to figure out a way to not require our children and grandchildren to pay this $14.5 trillion back. it just so happens that we have kind of come to the apex at the same time that the debt ceiling discussions were really reaching their end of the road. so, whether it's a part of the debt ceiling or not, we are not saying that must be done.

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the house may still be able to take a different approach with respect to the debt ceiling itself. >> moveon.org, a statement this evening, the gang of six proposal appears to ask seniors and the middle-class and the poor to bear the burden, and no real effort to make corporations and millionaires pay their fair share. you have the very same reaction on the left. are we ever going to get anything done, whether it's the debt ceiling or the plan, if you have reflexive, ideoloologic reactions on both extremes? >> may i say, almost nothing they say is right. this plan is balanced. it's comprehensive. all of the social security savings go for extending the solvency of social security. none of it goes for deficit reduction. this talk about balancing the budget on the backs of the poor and the disabled and seniors, that is -- they certainly are

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not reporting our plan. because our plan specifically protects the most vulnerable among us. it does it in every program. look, at the end of the day both sides are going to have to figure out how we going to change a course in which we borrow 41 which we borrow 41 cents of every dollar we spend. these ideas that we don't need to change any entitle many, revenue program, don't change any spending program, are just wrong and they are leading our country toward the fiscal cliff, and a collapse that would damage everyone, no one would be more hurt than the most vulnerable among us. so everybody needs to sober up, right, left, center. let's get together and do what's good for america. >> senator conrad, to you first. do you believe the president will broker this deal, dealing ceiling specific at the end, or best to let the mcconnell plan, mcconnell plus, pieces of your plan, something else, let

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congress deal with this? >> i always believed this would have to start in the united states senate it started here today. six of us, three democrats, three republicans, representing the broad cross section of the united states senate in terms of philosophy and background. we took that plan to 50 members of the united states senate this morning, about evenly divided, overwhelmingly positive reaction, so we intend to keep pushing, to try to make certain that this plan gets before our colleagues. >> senator, let me close with you. i've been in this town a couple decades now. neither of are you new to this process. some say they have never seen quite the gulf, not just ideologically, but the temperament between the house and the senate. do you agree with that? >> i think there is a pretty significant divide and sometimes that makes for good government, though. so i'm not discouraged by what we're hearing from colleagues on the other side of the capital.

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look, they are smart people, elected representatives and they deserve to be part of the mix and we're going to do our best to incorporate them into the mix and listen to their ideas. >> gentlemen, appreciate your time tonight. >> good to be with you. still ahead, on the floor of the house of representatives, nearing a vote on cut, cap and balance. that's the house republican plan. moment as way from the vote. we'll break it down, just ahead. a farewell lonawaited. goodnight, stuffy. goodnight, outdated. goodnight old luxury and all of your wares. goodnight bygones everywhere. [ engine turns over ] good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning unequaled inspiration. [ male announcer ] the audi a8, chosen by car & driver as the best luxury sedan in a recent comparison test. ♪ ooh baby, (what) can i do for you today? ♪

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the house of representatives beginning one of the procedural votes. close to a final vote on whether or not the republicans call cut, cap, and balance, one of the deficit and reduction spending plans. jessica yellin and cory borger and kate bolduan join us. they are about to have this vote, i assume the majority knows it has the votes to pass this plan. if the senate passes it, the president said he would veto it. is this is a stepping stone or an act of defiance for the house republicans say, no, president pl president, this is the best we'll give you? >> you can look at it from both perspectives to be honest. part of the discussion as we're leading into the vote, where people -- everyone knew it wasn't going to go anywhere in the senate, many have made the point that maybe allowing this vote and allowing house republicans to have their say and make their stand for deeper cuts and stricter controls, maybe it will clear the air. create some room if you will for maybe compromise as the clock

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ticks down and asks for this vote. at the same time, we are hearing from house conservatives continuously, they don't want to compromise, even after this point, so it's -- it's unclear exactly where we'll go from here. >> and it's an important point kate makes, because a lot of tea party members are knew to politics and the house of representatives. sometimes you say, look, we passed our plan in the house, they'll vote on it in the senate and see, see, now, you can't get your way. you can't get your way. you want nothing or some sort of compromise? >> they get to be on the record. on the record voting for a balanced budget amendment that requires a supermajority, 2/3, if you want to raise taxes. a balanced budget amendment, which effectively says you can't balance the budget by raising taxes. so they like that, and then maybe it's the prerequisite for them to bring up the debt ceiling vote. the mcconnell proposal allows them to vote against the debt

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ceiling and still have it pass so they can have it all ways, right? >> the mcconnell proposal would give the president the authority. and a lot of conservatives don't like it they don't get guaranteed spending cuts. and then mcconnell plus says they'll add a commission. part of the reason -- the president was relatively nice today, he said, sure, have your votes, and talking turkey, but is part of that because they think we'll get a deal or because they don't want to poke the conservatives anymore? >> they will get a deal. they know they have to get something done and this vote is putting everything aside and finally starting to negotiate with the republican house leaders and it's time to say these conservatives in our midst aren't going to move and we have to decide as a leadership how far we're willing to walk out on the plank and lose a little bit of face with our republican base. how far are we willing to go on the compromise and win over some democratic votes? they have to push the house

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republicans to take risks, those leaders and want to make nice with them at this moment. >> the white house is also convinced that public opinion is moving in their direction. >> it is. >> and the president has been out there more in the last couple of weeks that i can ever recall and it's doing him some good. >> kate, during the week, one of the narratives, speaker boehner and cantor have some differences. they tried in public to say, no, we're pretty much on the same page is that same tomorrow when the president works his back channels through the speaker to say we've got a deal? >> it's a very good question what it will look like publicly. let's be honest, they'll come out and say they are on the same page. they don't want a distraction. but jessica raises a really good point. going forward, after this vote, the big question is where -- where do you want to go now, house republicans? you have the majority. where do you want to go now? this is the big vote leading into what we sho