You can improve no doubt always work the weak points first in a training day. I had shit calves at once but brought them up doing them first on a leg day, I think Arnold brought his calves up the same way doing them first. Only exception is arms if a planned workout involves upper body doing arms first you will suffer on torso. So if arms need improvement suggestion is to do them on a day by themselves.

You can improve no doubt always work the weak points first in a training day. I had shit calves at once but brought them up doing them first on a leg day, I think Arnold brought his calves up the same way doing them first. Only exception is arms if a planned workout involves upper body doing arms first you will suffer on torso. So if arms need improvement suggestion is to do them on a day by themselves.

Absolutely. I love compound movements but I still do isolation work as well. There does come a point though where in order to make a body part bigger you have to get bigger overall, arms a great example of this. You can make them bigger with isolation movements but to a point. Then you have to rely more on the compound movements which will add more overall mass some of which will end up on your arms.

This is the tough thing with lagging body parts, sometimes it's not necessarily the size but proportion to everything else. Compound movements add overall size but proportions tend to stay the same. This is where finding the right isolation work becomes important as well as doing it correctly to stimulate the most growth.

I always had a tough time with my arms, both bi's and tri's. So I started expirementing with movements that stimulated them the most. For example, I found that barbell curls and ez bar curls did nothing for me, but straight bar preacher curls are very effective. I also lowered the number of excercises that I do. It's true that you want to hit a muscle from different angles to get it to it's full potential, but that doesn't mean it all has to be done in the same workout.

This is the tough thing with lagging body parts, sometimes it's not necessarily the size but proportion to everything else. Compound movements add overall size but proportions tend to stay the same. This is where finding the right isolation work becomes important as well as doing it correctly to stimulate the most growth.

i've found the same thing as well

these dips and chins that i've been doing have made me bigger overall (arms and torso) but i've basically kept the same proportions ie. torso pwning arms

these dips and chins that i've been doing have made me bigger overall (arms and torso) but i've basically kept the same proportions ie. torso pwning arms

This is where I think the HIT type of routines tend to fall short. With one all out set mentality it's difficult to really focus on form when your focus is also on grinding out reps. And with isolation work the most important thing is focusing on the muscle. You can always grind out more reps by getting other muscle groups involved, but then the whole point of isolation work is wasted. This doesn't mean that progressive overload can't still be applied but not at the expense of working the intended muscle.

these dips and chins that i've been doing have made me bigger overall (arms and torso) but i've basically kept the same proportions ie. torso pwning arms

Genetics. Some people have overpowering arms and delts while others have overpowering torsos. Based on my personal experiences, dips, chins and other compounds are still best for adding size overall, genetics will determine how you end up looking. Personally, doing isolation work to bring up lagging bodyparts was actually counterproductive for me, especially for arms, too much direct work made them smaller. But, everyone is different, try and see if "spot gaining" through isolation training works for you.

years ago in ironman mag they had a routine that you did for arms on the order of what your looking for. they more or less said don't train for 2-3 days than train arms all day long. you should have a home gym or just access to a barbell. every half hour you do one set for biceps and one set for triceps all day long.simple.pic'd are two of the recommended exercises.

That was the famous one day arm program. Which you did a lighter set of tricep & bicep, just for the pump, every hour on the hour. Usually one set, but some times 2, never approaching the point of muscle failure. 8 to 10 reps. Needed a complete day of training, and as Funk said, better in a home gym. Funks version is a little different, though the same basic idea. Were not suppose to workout another 2 days after the all day program. Time for healing and muscle growth.

Also the idea was to increase the protein flow. So protein shakes, along with a lighter meals throughout the day. Should work better now days because of better quality whey protein and creatine added during the day. Some use amino acid supplements.

Keeping the area warm was important. Long sleeves and even applying a heating element, like a lotion, rub, etc. Wanting to keep that blood in the arm area. Between 6 to 8 arm workout in that selected day. Some gained 1/8 to a 3/8 of an inch. Which may not sound like a lot, but adding to a 16" arm, could be somewhat impressive. Maybe after months of no growth at all, even slight gains can be good news..

years ago in ironman mag they had a routine that you did for arms on the order of what your looking for. they more or less said don't train for 2-3 days than train arms all day long. you should have a home gym or just access to a barbell. every half hour you do one set for biceps and one set for triceps all day long.simple.pic'd are two of the recommended exercises.

yeah, i've heard of that training protocol and the funny thing is i'm defiantly compulsive enough to do it, but the question is... will it actually give one permanent gains on their arms?

Genetics. Some people have overpowering arms and delts while others have overpowering torsos. Based on my personal experiences, dips, chins and other compounds are still best for adding size overall, genetics will determine how you end up looking. Personally, doing isolation work to bring up lagging bodyparts was actually counterproductive for me, especially for arms, too much direct work made them smaller. But, everyone is different, try and see if "spot gaining" through isolation training works for you.

i've basically had the experience as you, and isos never really did much for me, while compounds worked really well

but the problem is that my torso takes over on these compound moves, so i guess that i should just be a bit of a stubborn asshole and really just try to press on through these isos and see if i can get them to work for me lol

it's strange, because i'm basically telling myself "don't get your torso any bigger until your arms match" and it just feels weird not to go all-out on torso moves ie. rows, dips, chins

Hammer curls, pinwheel curls, reverse barbell curls, reverse ez bar curls, reverse cable curls, cable "rope" hammer curls, all hit the brachialis muscle under the bicep as well as the forearms to some extent. I always include one of these movements in my routine.

Hammer curls, pinwheel curls, reverse barbell curls, reverse ez bar curls, reverse cable curls, cable "rope" hammer curls, all hit the brachialis muscle under the bicep as well as the forearms to some extent. I always include one of these movements in my routine.

Reverse BB curls (as mentioned by Yev33) are one of those forgotten (don't know why) exercises, a true mass builders for the forearms & biceps. Try keeping the elbows close to the sides at all times. Experiment with a false grip (thumbs over the bar), from time to time. EZ BB curls are a second option, if some how a standard BB doesn't suit you.

The Zotterman (or Zotter) DB curl is excellent for forearms and biceps. Another forgotten exercise. Also the standard DB Hammer grip curl. Those tricep bars, which can be used as a hammer grip curling exercise, may be too limiting in their ROM, but a lot of guy's use them for forearm/biceps. Whatever works for you. Good Luck.

I am actually doing reverse barbell curls this training cycle. I am doing them with my back braced against an I-beam. Makes the movement very strict.

I enjoy ez bar reverse curls on a Preacher bench...this really works my outer forearms...strict and no swinging. Infact as i wrote on the mature thread mine need more attention. njflex has great lower arms. I also feel my forearms on Deadlifts too and Dumbbell shrugs. I have started to do clean and press (from the waist which really hits them too, along with my traps).

I enjoy ez bar reverse curls on a Preacher bench...this really works my outer forearms...strict and no swinging. Infact as i wrote on the mature thread mine need more attention. njflex has great lower arms. I also feel my forearms on Deadlifts too and Dumbbell shrugs. I have started to do clean and press (from the waist which really hits them too, along with my traps).

Yes the clean that's how I do front squats rack it on my chest for reps, like the Olympic lifters they really hit the top of the forearms, traps and low back in the clean process.

today i did the db alternate curls but my goddamn left forearm and elbow joint was killing me so i switched to concentration curls and it took the strain off my forearm and elbow joint and made the heavy curls much more manageable

so the question is... are concentration curls as good as db alternate curls?

my tiny bird joints (legit 6 inch wrists) just can't handle the fucking strain of these heavyass weights, but i need to use these heavyass weights to get bigger muscles SHIT! FUCK! GODDAMN IT!

I think you should curl on a good preacher bench or run your upper arm down the incline end of an ex bench and also avoid twisting/turning your hand which most do in DB alternate curls... maybe this simple article will help...concentration curls are stricter but do not allow as much weight. I never liked the Arnold version standing bent over and rather do them as you do elbow braced...http://www.livestrong.com/article/322610-biceps-elbow-pain/

I think you should curl on a good preacher bench or run your upper arm down the incline end of an ex bench and also avoid twisting/turning your hand which most do in DB alternate curls... maybe this simple article will help...concentration curls are stricter but do not allow as much weight. I never liked the Arnold version standing bent over and rather do them as you do elbow braced...http://www.livestrong.com/article/322610-biceps-elbow-pain/

Seated arm on leg is the best for concentration curls turning the little finger out toward the deltoid = peak contraction.