Tend to agree. It is a term mired in a historic/social and religious/philosophical context. Puts a secular humanist in a bind...to aspire or not to aspire?

Quote:maybe 'seeking' enlightenment is old-school...maybe people in the future could live moraly sound, without the need of imaginary constructs? a built-in moral compass would be a nice thing to evolve.

A serendipitous e-mail from a friend this morning:

"To start from the self and try to understand all things is delusion. To let the self be awakened by all things is enlightenment. "-- Dogen

A “cabbagehead” was not something I considered you at all. On the other hand, it seems that many folk seek “nothingness” as a way to enlightenment which excludes the conscious direction of the self and thereby lifts this sense of being (or lack thereof) to an aspiration.

To be nothing, is not something (pun intended) I would generally accept. I can see my lot in life, but despite its lack of mattering on a cosmic scale, I still live and love and see life as an adventure for MOI to study and “live” in. It is from “my” perspective that I have to start and then can glance surreptitiously at others-- and generally either sympathize or empathize with them…and in some cases, plain dislike. But to whatever end this little travel of “me” goes, it starts at a point of origin which can only be looked as individual.

To deconstruct further seems to be an exercise in futility to see if we are all shorn from some larger understanding, small beacons of consciousness that are unaware of our “real” interconnected form. Because in the end, it may matter little.

Either things are, or they aren’t---and sometimes those things that are not are considered to exist simply because there is no way to disprove them since we believe, not because you can disinterestedly discern them.

Aren't there times when the loss of the perception of 'me' is desirable?

Quote:To be nothing, is not something (pun intended) I would generally accept... But to whatever end this little travel of “me” goes, it starts at a point of origin which can only be looked as individual.

Well, I think there might be a slight twist to the term of "perception."

When in a moment of awe, looking at the sunset for instance; or when doing a martial art movement that is instinctive and which seems to come from an automatic reaction to stimulii; or when watching a good movie or reading a good book and losing the "self" in the activity at hand--these are all good.

But, it is in that ability of concetration that the brain, and thus the individual self, can produce this sensation. This is hyper-concentration, self-hypnosis, whatever you want to name it. But I don't distinguish this from the individual, nor do I overlay this sense of "lacking self" as anything outside the individual or connected with a greater cosmological awareness.

It is simply me (or you) in the moment and has no other outstanding quality. And can be appreciated just as it is, without piquing any other awareness of that fact.