Basically symbolic, righties in Israel are pissed (of course.) US one of 9 nations voting no (thanks, Susan Rice,) UK one of 40 or so abstainers. The rest voted in favor.

Figured we'd need the thread sooner or later. Thoughts?

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Kind of puts our country out front and center and exposes are two faced diplomacy. Sure ... of course there are issues to iron out but just about everyone except for a few see the 2 state solution as the solution. I guess our country likes the way it is ... they have been exposed ... :bricks:

I think there's so much psychosis in the ME because of all the horrors that the populace is frozen. This step by the UN may help move things forward. Israel needs to recognize that their long-term survival is contingent on pursuing peace. Personally, I think what's missing from the negotiations is the need to re-educate the public about the histories of both the Palestinians and the Israelis in order to try to generate some empathy.

Britain: we will vote for you if you promise not to go to the International Criminal Court

It's sad

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Thats a big issue in britain these days. There have been a number of cases involving AQ terror suspects living in britain that the british gov has wanted to extradite to other countries but the ICC has blocked them from doing so. The ICC is viewed as meddling in British domestic affairs

Israel is a factual nation that determines it's own destiny no matter what the UN has to say. I look at the UN as a rogue entity myself.

But if Israel wants a 2 state solution, go for it. As long as brings peace between them. But if Palestine becomes an independent state and they send missiles Israel's way, they'd have every valid excuse to wipe them out.

Israel is a factual nation that determines it's own destiny no matter what the UN has to say. I look at the UN as a rogue entity myself.

But if Israel wants a 2 state solution, go for it. As long as brings peace between them. But if Palestine becomes an independent state and they send missiles Israel's way, they'd have every valid excuse to wipe them out.

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Just ask Iran.

The UN is pathetic. Constantly passing "resolutions" to say they disapprove of something.

I remember thinking in the 90s that it would be great if they declared an independent Palestine on May 14, 1998, to coincide with the date of Israel's independence. In one generation it would be a day for riots, then it would be a day for separate observances and snarky comments in the media, then one day it would be a day when their descendents could celebrate together, even if it took a century.

How much crap would have been avoided had they declared a Palestinian state in 1948, instead of fighting to push the Jews out of Israel and claim sovereignty over the whole enchilada? Water under the bridge.

Non-member states have access to the ICC, so we can probably expect suits in the ICC against Israel. I'd expect counter-suits against the "state" of Palestine demanding that the Palestinian "government" restrain its "citizens" from attacking foreign nationals.

You're right but put yourself in Israel's shoes. Hamas refuses to acknowledge your right to exist as a sovereign state and it's in their charter that you should be wiped out. Yet you are expected to negotiate with them while they continue to launch missiles at your population centers from populated areas.....

Krauthammer put it more eloquently than I could....
Re Gaza
>>>>>Israel wanted nothing more than to live in peace with this independent Palestinian entity. After all, the world had incessantly demanded that Israel give up land for peace. It gave the land. It got no peace.The Gaza Palestinians did not reciprocate. They voted in Hamas, who then took over in a military putsch and turned their newly freed Palestine into an armed camp.
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But why, given that there is no occupation of Gaza anymore? Because Hamas considers all of Israel occupied, illegitimate, a cancer, a crime against humanity. HamasÃ¢â¬â¢ objective, openly declared, is to Ã¢â¬ÅliberateÃ¢â¬ Ã¢â¬â i.e. destroy Ã¢â¬â Tel Aviv and the rest of pre-1967 Israel. Indeed, it is HamasÃ¢â¬â¢ raison dÃ¢â¬â¢etre.<<<<<<<<<<<

That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned:
That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation;
That until the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes;
That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race;
That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained...

Israel and America have always been friends, the New American Progressive Socialist Anti American Left Wing Liberals and their Dear Comrade Leader Barack Hussein Obama have now FALLEN IN LOVE WITH ALL OF AMERICA'S ENEMY'S.

This President (jug ears) and all of America's Left Wing don't like America as it is and are hell bent on changing it and turning it into another Socialist shlt hole insane asylum.

So now we all know where that leaves Israel (up shlt creek) I'm amazed so many American Jews support Israel's enemy's Barack Hussein Obama, Islam and The New Left Wing American Dip Shlt Loon.

Israel and America have always been friends, the New American Progressive Socialist Anti American Left Wing Liberals and their Dear Comrade Leader Barack Hussein Obama have now FALLEN IN LOVE WITH ALL OF AMERICA'S ENEMY'S.

This President (jug ears) and all of America's Left Wing don't like America as it is and are hell bent on changing it and turning it into another Socialist shlt hole insane asylum.

So now we all know where that leaves Israel (up shlt creek) I'm amazed so many American Jews support Israel's enemy's Barack Hussein Obama, Islam and The New Left Wing American Dip Shlt Loon.

You're right but put yourself in Israel's shoes. Hamas refuses to acknowledge your right to exist as a sovereign state and it's in their charter that you should be wiped out. Yet you are expected to negotiate with them while they continue to launch missiles at your population centers from populated areas.....

Krauthammer put it more eloquently than I could....
Re Gaza
>>>>>Israel wanted nothing more than to live in peace with this independent Palestinian entity. After all, the world had incessantly demanded that Israel give up land for peace. It gave the land. It got no peace.The Gaza Palestinians did not reciprocate. They voted in Hamas, who then took over in a military putsch and turned their newly freed Palestine into an armed camp.
.......................

But why, given that there is no occupation of Gaza anymore? Because Hamas considers all of Israel occupied, illegitimate, a cancer, a crime against humanity. HamasÃ¢â¬â¢ objective, openly declared, is to Ã¢â¬ÅliberateÃ¢â¬ Ã¢â¬â i.e. destroy Ã¢â¬â Tel Aviv and the rest of pre-1967 Israel. Indeed, it is HamasÃ¢â¬â¢ raison dÃ¢â¬â¢etre.<<<<<<<<<<<

You can go tit for tat on this, however Israel has committed more than its fair share of abuses towards the Palestinian.. the Israeli's have killed something like 1400+ children since 2001, while Palestinians have killed something like 50 Israeli children...

A fellow churchgoer, who is also a Quaker, tells me everytime I see him tells me of a new Israeli atrocity.. the quakers, who operate a school rhere, everytime they build a playground for the children it gets bulldozed by the IDF....

You can go tit for tat on this, however Israel has committed more than its fair share of abuses towards the Palestinian.. the Israeli's have killed something like 1400+ children since 2001, while Palestinians have killed something like 50 Israeli children...

..

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When Hamas launches missiles from schools and occupied houses, it is their intent to create martyrs when the Israeli's respond.....
Let me distill this down to one question, how do you negotiate with someone who refuses to accept your right to exist? The Israelis left Gaza to give the Palestinians self-rule as a precursor to a future state. The net result as Krautkammer noted was a place to launch barrages of missiles into Southern Israel. Hamas Uses UNRWA School To Fire Rockets At Southern Israel - YouTube

You can go tit for tat on this, however Israel has committed more than its fair share of abuses towards the Palestinian.. the Israeli's have killed something like 1400+ children since 2001, while Palestinians have killed something like 50 Israeli children...

A fellow churchgoer, who is also a Quaker, tells me everytime I see him tells me of a new Israeli atrocity.. the quakers, who operate a school rhere, everytime they build a playground for the children it gets bulldozed by the IDF....

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Yes Israel shows a lot of the middle east culture, they just seem to be "the best of the bad lot" thats what Religion does to people.

Religion Can Be Very Dangerous, Barbaric and Foolish.

I KILL YOU IN THE NAME OF GOD
"I GOT HIM GOD, I KILLED THE SON OF A BlTCH"