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Based on the specs for their 5W-30 diesel recommendation, I'd stick with Mobil 1 or something better. The ash content is higher on the Schaeffer than the LL04 spec (and higher than Mobil 1), and the HTHS is lower than the LL04 spec. Both are not good, given that there are better alternatives out there.

I have a neighbor who is a Scaffer Oil Representative/Distributor and I went to a company demonstration. In the demonstration, they had a electric motor with a lever that held a small bushing on a shaft. You would than pull the lever over on the output shaft and the bushing would rotate against the output shaft of the motor.

The demonstration point, was that you could stall the electric motor, by applying force. Then through out the demonstration they would add things like WD40 and show that you could still stall out the motor.

Eventually they added a small cup that they could add oil to and the output shaft would then be coated with oil. Now when you brought the lever/bushing into contact, you had to apply a lot more force to get the motor to stall, but you could do it.

The final demonstration was when they simply added the Shaffer oil to the cup, with all the other oils they already had in this small oil bath. I could not physically stall the electric motor, as I had done previously. It was impressive.

Anyway, I want to put this stuff in my high mileage 323ci. Any thoughts or users out there?

I have a neighbor who is a Scaffer Oil Representative/Distributor and I went to a company demonstration. In the demonstration, they had a electric motor with a lever that held a small bushing on a shaft. You would than pull the lever over on the output shaft and the bushing would rotate against the output shaft of the motor.

The demonstration point, was that you could stall the electric motor, by applying force. Then through out the demonstration they would add things like WD40 and show that you could still stall out the motor.

Eventually they added a small cup that they could add oil to and the output shaft would then be coated with oil. Now when you brought the lever/bushing into contact, you had to apply a lot more force to get the motor to stall, but you could do it.

The final demonstration was when they simply added the Shaffer oil to the cup, with all the other oils they already had in this small oil bath. I could not physically stall the electric motor, as I had done previously. It was impressive.

Anyway, I want to put this stuff in my high mileage 323ci. Any thoughts or users out there?

My thought is that the same thing would have happened if they had used any of the BMW LL-01 or LL-04 oils.

Snake-oil demonstrations don't mean that it meets the standards that BMW has specified for our cars' oils.

Finally, we're more interested in diesels in this forum and don't know much about 323i (is it an E46?)

I totally hear what your saying, but this oil has the same SAE and API ratings that the other commercial oils have. If you ever look at the back of say Amsoil, they don't have the SAE and API ratings. That's the only reason I'm considering putting this stuff in my car.

I totally hear what your saying, but this oil has the same SAE and API ratings that the other commercial oils have. If you ever look at the back of say Amsoil, they don't have the SAE and API ratings. That's the only reason I'm considering putting this stuff in my car.

API and SAE ratings are c$%^. BMW uses the European ACEA ratings (the EU manufacturers actually all have individual ratings, but they all distill down to ACEA + some "special additives"). BMW LL01 is ACEA A3/B3. LL04 is A3/B3/C4. The C4 is low ash, for diesel use.

There is so little relation between ACEA and SAE/API it's silly. If the Schaeffer oil (or any other) doesn't have ACEA ratings on it, you're totally on your own.

Go ask about it on bobistheoilguy.com. There may already be answers there.

My thought is that the same thing would have happened if they had used any of the BMW LL-01 or LL-04 oils.

Snake-oil demonstrations don't mean that it meets the standards that BMW has specified for our cars' oils.

Finally, we're more interested in diesels in this forum and don't know much about 323i (is it an E46?)

I'm not sure I'm still buying the "Snake Oil" knock against them, especially when the many larger trucking fleets are using this brand, along with many municipalities and the U.S. Government. Most of these users have diesel vehicles.

API and SAE ratings are c$%^. BMW uses the European ACEA ratings (the EU manufacturers actually all have individual ratings, but they all distill down to ACEA + some "special additives"). BMW LL01 is ACEA A3/B3. LL04 is A3/B3/C4. The C4 is low ash, for diesel use.

There is so little relation between ACEA and SAE/API it's silly. If the Schaeffer oil (or any other) doesn't have ACEA ratings on it, you're totally on your own.

Go ask about it on bobistheoilguy.com. There may already be answers there.

Remember the old Slick 50 and STP demonstrations? That's what comes to mind when someone mentions "snake oil" demonstrations. I have to say though that I used STP oil treatment in a '64 327 'vette that was burning a qt of oil every 700 miles and it stopped it and gave better performance to boot. Their demo was to dip a screwdriver blade in STP then you would try to hold it and it would slip through your fingers. None of that has anything to do with the subject at hand of course. One caveat, is that most fleet users pay a lot of attention to cost (in fact that is probably the main consideration), so it may be something as simple as it is the cheapest oil that still provides an acceptable level of performance as opposed to the "best" oil available.

One caveat, is that most fleet users pay a lot of attention to cost (in fact that is probably the main consideration), so it may be something as simple as it is the cheapest oil that still provides an acceptable level of performance as opposed to the "best" oil available.

The main selling that made sense to me, when the discussion of fleet users, was even though it was more expensive, was that it decreased their fuel costs due to a increase in fuel economy.

I have a neighbor who is a Scaffer Oil Representative/Distributor and I went to a company demonstration. In the demonstration, they had a electric motor with a lever that held a small bushing on a shaft. You would than pull the lever over on the output shaft and the bushing would rotate against the output shaft of the motor.

The demonstration point, was that you could stall the electric motor, by applying force. Then through out the demonstration they would add things like WD40 and show that you could still stall out the motor.

Eventually they added a small cup that they could add oil to and the output shaft would then be coated with oil. Now when you brought the lever/bushing into contact, you had to apply a lot more force to get the motor to stall, but you could do it.

The final demonstration was when they simply added the Shaffer oil to the cup, with all the other oils they already had in this small oil bath. I could not physically stall the electric motor, as I had done previously. It was impressive.

Anyway, I want to put this stuff in my high mileage 323ci. Any thoughts or users out there?

They use to do similar demonstrations with STP and other additives many years ago (1950s?). It is an impressive demonstration, but frankly, has little to do with how well an oil works in an IC engine.

I totally hear what your saying, but this oil has the same SAE and API ratings that the other commercial oils have. If you ever look at the back of say Amsoil, they don't have the SAE and API ratings. That's the only reason I'm considering putting this stuff in my car.

Actually AMSOIL does have an API/SAE line. Can't remember the name but the guys in BITOG talk about it. Maybe it's ILSAC? Can't remember.

I totally hear what your saying, but this oil has the same SAE and API ratings that the other commercial oils have. If you ever look at the back of say Amsoil, they don't have the SAE and API ratings. That's the only reason I'm considering putting this stuff in my car.

Please keep in mind that the LL04 spec from BMW specifically addresses additive content, along with being a low-SAPS oil. If you put any other type of oil in a d, you will significantly shorten the life of the DPF, among other things. I don't have a bone to pick with Schaeffer's (I'm switching to their bio-based additive for diesel), but it's critical for the health of a d that you stick with a low-SAPS oil.

I posted this earlier in the thread, still good info: Based on the specs for their 5W-30 diesel recommendation, I'd stick with Mobil 1 or something better. The ash content is higher on the Schaeffer than the LL04 spec (and higher than Mobil 1), and the HTHS is lower than the LL04 spec. Both are not good, given that there are better alternatives out there.

Edit: None of this may apply if your car is not a diesel, but this is the diesel section, so....