PS3 motion controller coming in fall, still no name or price

Sony's PlayStation 3 motion controller has been pushed back to the fall, …

Sony's upcoming motion controller for the PlayStation 3 was slated for a spring release, but without any hands-on time with the peripheral, any details on launch games, or any real details at all, it should come as a very mild surprise to learn that controller has been pushed back to autumn 2010.

"We have decided to release the Motion Controller in fall 2010 when we will be able to offer an exciting and varied line-up of software titles that will deliver the new entertainment experience to PS3 users," said Kazuo Hirai, President and Group CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.

"We will continue to work to have a comprehensive portfolio of attractive and innovative games for the Motion Controller, not only from SCE Worldwide Studios but also from the third party developers and publishers, whom we have been working closely with. We look forward to soon unveiling the exciting software line-up that further expands and defines the PS3 platform as the ultimate entertainment system for the home."

Hurray for marketing-speak! Sony wants to warn us that "motion controller" is a tentative name, and you will need to use the PlayStation Eye to take advantage of the unnamed, unpriced peripheral. Also, is it just us, or does this sound like a threat? "SCE will vigorously promote the Motion Controller as the de facto controller of the PS3 platform along with the DualShock series controller and will deploy various measures to enhance the software title line-up for the Motion Controller, delivering groundbreaking interactive entertainment only possible on the PS3 platform."

Get ready for some competition this fall, when the Sony Motion Controller (tentative name) goes up against Microsoft's Project Natal (tentative name). If nothing else, we're in for an interesting E3, where both technologies should be shown in detail.

I was going to comment on another similar post, but this is a bit more detailed.

I think you're missing at least part of the point. Motion controllers are multiplatform, or will be in the fall. Sure, the PC is removed from the mix, but the Wii gets added in. And that means Wii games can now work on all consoles -- obviously some controller differences will necessitate changes, but it's not a deal killer across the board.

This means money in a couple of different ways... and while you were derogatory about "money hats," let's face it, game developers create games to make money, not for the posterity of mankind.

First, the PS3 and 360 can now compete directly with the Wii, in an arena they could not before. Cannibalizing Wii sales (buy my console instead of theirs!) means more money. And secondly, developers now have three separate consoles to hit up, rather than just one. The money-making potential has increased quite a bit at that point. And that may even lead to better motion-controlled games, given the increase of audience.

-Pie

You make a good case but I still remain skeptical for the following reasons:

Regarding moneyhats, I didn't meant to sound derogatory and I don't blame developers for taking them and making money but I don't think they're the most sustainable business practice from MS/Sony's standpoint. It'll be useful to drum up support early on but convincing devs to make high profile games on their own and expend resources that could be better spent on making multiplatform games that yield higher returns will be the real challenge. Basically, if either accessorie has to rely on money hats for decent support from 3rd parties then I don't think they'll survive.

Also, I believe the motion control technologies implemented are different enough on each console that it will be hard to develop the same game accross all platforms. The Wii +, and PS3 Orb implementation will have the most similar function but is that enough? The Natal can't mimic the competitors as a reliable pointing device and neither the Wii nor PS3 can mimic the Natal obviously.

Lastly, the Wii is already known as the casual console with people flailing and jumping around the living room and partying. Maybe the motion control ship has already sailed this gen?

Originally posted by one8kevin:I honestly don't think there is any demand for motion controls on the PS3 or 360. It just baffles my mind that they're both investing so much into this technology just so they can say "me too".

Have you seen the new 3D TV sets that manufacturers will start pushing? Never underestimate the power of self-delusion.

Originally posted by ManicMiner:Really looking forward to the PS3 Controller, it seems to offer me everything I could want as a gamer

It's a ball on a stick.

quote:

and provides much more flexability than Natal does (which from what I gather from everyone that's used it, seems it's nothing more than a overhyped, laggy unresponsive, inaccurate mess without any feedback at all)

Not sure why Natal was mentioned here, although if it had "no feedback at all" it's going to be very cheap to make and support. Whatever gets your fanboi juices going I suppose, but to me Natal seems at least interesting, but the ball on the stick is Sony's second "go" at motion control, doesn't appear to offer anything the Wiimote doesn't, and judging by SIXAXIS support Sony gets bored of motion control almost as fast as you will.

I think it's a rule on the Internet that when you make a heavily fanboi-esque post, you must accuse the other guy of being a fanboi. I guess rules are a good thing... good job sticking to them!

Someday, in the far, far, far future, people will be able to say "Hey, I like this!" without being attacked. I did say far, far, far, future!

-Pie

Well, I look forward to your future, but the fact of the matter is that it is one thing to say "hey, I like this" and something entirely different when you say "hey, I like this... and therefore everything that you like different than I do is complete shit and you are complete shit for liking that and I hope you die in a fire you f@#king retard!!1!1!!".

I think it's funny that all the PS3 and Xbox 360 fanboys scoff at the Wii and claim that it's just for kids, it's not HD, etc, yet the Wii outsells them both combined, and Microsoft and Sony are in a mad race to emulate the Wii controls.

I agree with those that say this generation is a wash for motion controllers. However it may be worth it for Sony and MS to develop controllers for current machines to get their feet wet, and then apply what they learn to the next gen.

Originally posted by Knives:... He's talking about feedback from a controller. Seeing as there is no controller ... there is no feedback. That doesn't necessarily make it a cheap peripheral to produce.

Does the ball on a stick have rumble? Otherwise, where's the feedback there?

quote:

And in regards to what it offers that the Wiimote doesn't? Real time feedback (no delay) and better accuracy to name two.

There's going to be a delay of some kind as the signal is decoded, I'm guessing it's going to be low-latency though. As for better accuracy, are we sure about this? It appears to be using image interpolation to detect motion, it's interesting technically but I can't see that being more accurate than a Wii+motionplus.

My take on it; Sony and MS are not expecting these devices to be game-changers this generation. They want to get the technology out there now, so they can get feedback from the consumer, then tweak and refine it for launch with the next generation of hardware.

Am I the only one who is just excited to see the gaming landscape change? I will always want traditional games that use a controller but I love my Wii and DS. And anytime we can introduce a new way to play we should be excited. If it ends up being terrible the parties responsible will get that message in their wallet. While you can complain all you want about the Wii having shovel ware there are definitely games on that console that show motion controls work, and work amazingly well.

Let me start with feedback, given that it is coming from ManicMiner (mgillespie, soylentblue) I nearly ignored it, but he does have a point, their isn't going to be feedback on the natal, BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING DEVICE. Unless you are expecting it to come with a pitching machine to shoot you in the stomach every time you want feedback, I would imagine that it won't have it, jesus fucking christ.

Now on to the subject of these silly gizmos in general. I just don't see this being a big seller, sure they can port wii games, but think about it, how many non 1st party games for wii do you really want to play? Are they going to make their own games, sure, but how many of those are going to be more than shitty software designed to sell their new toy? Party games? Sure, but if the price point is to high then I'd rather buy a wii (and I am not even a wii fan).

As another posted said, I play games to relax. I want to come home at the end of the day, plant my ass on the couch and play games. I have no desire to break a sweat playing games, hence why I do not own a wii.

I understand why Sony/MS think this is a good idea, but I do not think they realize that their major market share has limited interest in motion controls (six-axis sucks, I am sooo sick of the early PS3 games forcing me to use it, looking at you Uncharted. Hopefully they took it out or at least diabled it in the options menu in UC2). Most of the people that might have an interest in it already own a wii, and the cost of the console + widget, is going to exceed the wii I would imagine. That should cause plenty of no sales.

Originally posted by Ben Kuchera:The other possibility is to release patches for existing games. Can you imagine if Natal launches and suddenly it works on Forza 3 and Halo ODST?

That seems pretty unlikely, given that MS have done away with Natal's chip, and it's now up to the 360 to do all of the analysis itself. This has cut the number of users it can recognize to two, and will use 15% of the 360's "total computing resources," along with 50MB err, some amount of RAM. (Some folks get angry when you say how much.)

It does, along with buttons and an analog trigger. Don't forget, along with added responsiveness and precision, buttons provide a feedback of their own. It's easy to determine when you've moved your thumb the two millimeters required to hit the full throw on the X button because your thumb stops moving. It would be a lot harder to determine whether you've moved your hand the four centimeters required for Natal to be able to tell the difference.

Of course, with its 0.1s of lag, you're probably not going to want to use Natal for button-press-type actions anyway, at least, not for anything that needs to be done quickly and accurately. (Jump, Fire, etc.)

quote:

There's going to be a delay of some kind as the signal is decoded, I'm guessing it's going to be low-latency though. As for better accuracy, are we sure about this? It appears to be using image interpolation to detect motion, it's interesting technically but I can't see that being more accurate than a Wii+motionplus.

The wands seem to have a lot less lag than the Wiimote+, going by tech demos I've seen of both.

Also, Sony's system is more robust in that the camera stays in place and tracks the ball, which you'd almost have to intentionally obscure during normal gameplay. With the Wii, the user holds the camera and aims it at the sensor bar, but as soon as the user starts swinging the Wiimote around, the camera will lose sight of the sensor bar. While the camera has the target in its sights, the two systems are probably similarly accurate. When the camera loses sight of the target, both systems will fall back to dead reckoning, enabled by the controller's inertial sensors.

Dead reckoning is better than nothing, but it is prone to drift, and errors tend to accumulate over time. A 1% error in the estimation of gravity can result in the controllers reckoned/actual position being off by 40cm after only a few seconds. In practical terms, you need to reset the actual position every second or two to ensure reasonably accurate data when dead reckoning. This is best done by sighting the target with the camera, but you can also "guess," by basing your reset on how a person normally holds a controller, etc.

So because of the design of the two systems, the wands are almost always using sighting to determine location—which is obviously quite accurate—and rarely falling back to dead reckoning, while the Wiimote is almost always using dead reckoning, with the occasional sighting to determine the controller's true position. So while likely similar in accuracy when both are sighting, the wands could be considered a more accurate system overall, simply because they're able to use sighting almost all the time, instead of only occasionally.