Messages - pfifth

ofcourse they have to have a bag of musical vocabulary to be able to improvise, but saying professional improvisers just regurgitate licks is just not true. That's no more to the point than saying that when we have a conversation , all we're doing is just regurgitating the words and phrases we've internalized all over the years. Improvisation is a very aural based process in that you have to know what somethings sounds like in your head (or be able to sing it) before you play it. You have to have a competent relative pitch ability developed within you. I don't know what you're trying to imply by "plucking music form thin air". try this - listen to a chord progession and sing a melody on top of it. Don't play your instrument, SING. Anyone can do that. If that is plucking music out from thin air to you then yes, they do pluck music from thin air. The hard part is being able to connect that with your fingers and do it in real time simultaneously. That's what a good improviser should be able to do.

I can bet my ass I can do it better than you think you know what it is. but so much for dick waving competition. You have no clue about the aural process involved in improvising , do you? . Now answer yes or no please, are you a musician?

Yes, you are incompetent to answer if you don't know how improvisation works. That's what I was implying. Once again, do you know how musicians improvise? If you don't, I find it really hard to take anything you say on this matter seriously. I’am not saying that classical music is not more sophisticated than Rock. Ofcoruse it is. But improvisation in both the cases follow the same pattern and is carried out through the same process. Go on, resort to ad hominem and tell me more about how I pride myself in my trivial ability to improvise in the rock context.

"Also, as you said, modern improvisation is based on reacting to the music being played; "

no, what i'am saying is that it is the same with classical music is as well. I enjoy improvisations which have a more poignant bigger picture. I'am not defending random wankery and noodling based on regurgitation of muscle memorized scales and modes and what have you not. your ideal example of an improvisation , from what you've said, is like Paganini's 24th caprice? I don't know, that has hardly any narration to it. Narration does not necessarily mean variations on the same thing. To me , a good improvisation is where everything follows in the context of what happened before and where everything fits in to give a clear big picture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71izserFcek

well, what was hardly nasty. Even if you think it was, that wasn't my main point. The thread starter was enforcing the point how classical improvisation is superior to other form because it is apparently "structured". I was just chipping in my two cents based on actual study and experience of having 'improvised' music. The process during improvisation through all genres are essentially the same. It is a function of a player's aural ability and technical ability to respond to what is being heard. that's all.

I have seen classical improvisation and known people who do it, some as part of their performance.

However, it's not like "improvisation" in rock, jazz blues:

(a) It's structured. The song has a pattern, and the improv must fit that, like not just rhyming but staying in meter (no rap artist does this).(b) In addition to harmonic correspondence, there needs to be melodic correspondence.

This is far more complex than what popular musicians do, and more challenging. It is however harder to perceive the subtlety of, because nothing's going to hit you over the head with HAY THIS IZ IMPROVIZED like a totally random solo.

I have to ask you a question. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but have you ever 'improvised' any music? I'am asking you an honest question.

I ask you this because, You're making it sound like improvisation in Rock and Jazz is just playing some random notes or regurgitating the same licks over and over again. It would never work that way . If that was the case, the players would invariably sound like idiots. The improvised 'melody' that comes out has be a product of the harmonic (progressions, basslines) and rhythmic context. Yes, even in blues, the improvised melody does reflect the context in which the improvisation is going on. The improvised music is an outcome of what you hear (in your inner ear, head.. whatever) in the context of what is there to be improvised over. If you can't 'hear' what you want to play in the context, you can't improvise. Period. Improvisation is not about organization. By definition it is spontaneous, but it has to fit the context in which it is being improvised.

I"am not a piano music aficionado but Beethoven sonatas, Bach's Well tempered Claviers 1 and 2, Goldberg variations I believe are the greatest piano musical works ever. I might look an ass for plugging my own youtube page but here's the 5th goldberg variation which I recorded with two guitar parts.

http://www.soundclick.com/twistedcon a fool fan man , blatant call are originals. A fool fan man is pretty good I think. I know how majority of you in here despise Pantera and Lamb of God but oh well. In my defense though, this page was created some 3 -4 years ago.

I am passionately listening to Bach most of the times I listen to music these days.

NO BLOGS ACCOMPLISHMENTS - i can speak 4 languages. I was able to teach myself how to play the guitar fairly good. I am well versed in music theory , again self taught.EDUCATION - hopefully I'll get my Certified General Accountant desgination within the next couple of years.

Intelligent teenagers often listen to heavy metal music to cope with the pressures associated with being talented, according to research.

The results of a study of more than 1,000 of the brightest five per cent of young people will come as relief to parents whose offspring, usually long-haired, are devotees of Iron Maiden, AC/DC and their musical descendants.

Researchers found that, far from being a sign of delinquency and poor academic ability, many adolescent "metalheads" are extremely bright and often use the music to help them deal with the stresses and strains of being gifted social outsiders.advertisement

Stuart Cadwallader, a psychologist at the University of Warwick, will present the findings at the British Psychological Society conference in York today.

He said: "There is a perception of gifted and talented students as being into classical music and spending a lot of time reading. I think that is an inaccurate stereotype. There is literature that links heavy metal to poor academic performance and delinquency but we found a group that contradicts that.

"We are looking at a group with lower than average self-esteem that does not feel quite as well adjusted. They feel more stressed out and turn to heavy metal as a way of relieving that stress.

"Participants said they appreciated the complex and sometimes political themes of heavy metal music more than perhaps the average pop song. It has a tendency to worry adults a bit but I think it is just a cathartic thing. It does not indicate problems."

The researchers surveyed 1,057 members of the National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth - a body whose 120,000 student members are within the top five per cent academically in the 11-19 age range.

Asked for their favourite type of music, 39 per cent said rock, 18 per cent R&B and 14 per cent pop. Six per cent said heavy metal and a third rated it in their top five genres.

The heavy metal fans in the study had lower self-esteem and more difficulties in family relationships and friendships.

Mr Cadwallader then held an online discussion involving 19 members of the academy, 17 of whom were heavy metal fans. They spoke of listening to bands including System of a Down, Slipknot, Tool, Dragon Force, Forward Russia and In Flames when they were in a bad mood and using it to work off frustrations and anger.

One student said: "It helps me with stress. It's the general thrashiness of it. You can't really jump your anger into the floor and listen to your music at the same time with other types of music."

Mr Cadwallader added: "Perhaps gifted people experience more pressure than their peers and use the music to purge this negativity."

Dan Silver, assistant editor of the music magazine NME who has worked for Kerrang! and Metal Hammer, said: "Many themes of heavy metal are about alienation. If you have these kinds of feelings there is a lot you can get out of the music and the community of fans who are into it."