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I'm certain we would have more wins with Magnini but that way he won was never sustainable. He built the oldest roster in the NFL with no true playmakers or any young talent. Almost every win under Mangini was because of either trick plays, incredible special teams, or running the ball 40+ times during the weirdest 4 game winning streak in NFL history not involving Tim Tebow.

Mangini is never going to be a consistant winner. Shurmur could if he had talent. He coaches the right way, its just the front office has given him garbage._________________

Look at Miami for God's sake they are young and competitive with a rookie QB and they are winning. No reason Shurmur can't make that happen for Cleveland if he was cut out for the job.

Miami has more in place than Cleveland.

Rookie QB, Tannenhill is playing in Mike Sherman's offense. The same offense he spent five years playing in at Texas A&M as a QB. So he has no learning curve to learn the offense unlike Weeden

reliable WRs: Hartline and Bess are very good WRs. They are nothing amazing but they will make plays for you. As we can see by their performance vs the Cardinals two weeks ago

More reliable defense: Miami has a solid DL. Two play making LBs in Wake and Dansby. Decent DBs and a solid pair of safeties.

Miami is in a better situation than the browns. Yes Tannenhill is a rookie but he is surrounded by solid vets. Weeden is a rookie but is surrounded by a majority of rookies

No way. Miami is young and inexperienced as well. Browns have a better D Line and a better linebacker in DQ. Browns O-Line is head and shoulders above Miami's O'line. TRich is better than Bush and Massaquoi and Little are physically better that Hartline and Bess.

Are you kidding me?? Your going to say Miami is a more talented team than the Browns?? No way. They are just better coached. Admit it please.

The Shurmur apologists here need to keep things quiet and stop defending until we get a W.

Look at Miami for God's sake they are young and competitive with a rookie QB and they are winning. No reason Shurmur can't make that happen for Cleveland if he was cut out for the job.

Miami has more in place than Cleveland.

Rookie QB, Tannenhill is playing in Mike Sherman's offense. The same offense he spent five years playing in at Texas A&M as a QB. So he has no learning curve to learn the offense unlike Weeden

reliable WRs: Hartline and Bess are very good WRs. They are nothing amazing but they will make plays for you. As we can see by their performance vs the Cardinals two weeks ago

More reliable defense: Miami has a solid DL. Two play making LBs in Wake and Dansby. Decent DBs and a solid pair of safeties.

Miami is in a better situation than the browns. Yes Tannenhill is a rookie but he is surrounded by solid vets. Weeden is a rookie but is surrounded by a majority of rookies

No way. Miami is young and inexperienced as well. Browns have a better D Line and a better linebacker in DQ. Browns O-Line is head and shoulders above Miami's O'line. TRich is better than Bush and Massaquoi and Little are physically better that Hartline and Bess.

Are you kidding me?? Your going to say Miami is a more talented team than the Browns?? No way. They are just better coached. Admit it please.

The Shurmur apologists here need to keep things quiet and stop defending until we get a W.

Miamis defense is clearly better than the one we are fielding right now. Its not even close. Offenses are pretty similar._________________

No way. Miami is young and inexperienced as well. Browns have a better D Line and a better linebacker in DQ. Browns O-Line is head and shoulders above Miami's O'line. TRich is better than Bush and Massaquoi and Little are physically better that Hartline and Bess.

Are you kidding me?? Your going to say Miami is a more talented team than the Browns?? No way. They are just better coached. Admit it please.

The Shurmur apologists here need to keep things quiet and stop defending until we get a W.

yes the Browns have a better DL but Miami LBs are a lot better than Cleveland. We have the best LB out of the group IMO in DQ but in general, Miami has a better all around LB corp. I would love it if the Browns LB corp was Burrnett, Wake, and Dansby. Browns OL is not head and shoulders about Miamis. LT is pretty close to a wash but JT edges out JL and Mack is the better center but the other 3 positions are a toss up.

Will TRich have the better career than Bush? Yes Is Bush having the better season? Yes. Bush has 369yards on 67carries and is avg 5.5yards a carry when TRich has 222yards on 64carries and is avg 3.5. Ok just because Little and MoMass at physically better doesnt mean they are the better WRs. Bess and Hartline both has 20+ catches where Cleveland's leading receiver has 15 and its not even held by a WR, TRich actually leads the team in catches

Yes, Miami is a more talented team overall. I would take their RT RG,and LG guard over ours. I would take their #1 and #2 WR and TE. I would take their DEs over ours. I would take their LBs over ours and I would take their Safeties over ours. So basically the only position players I like on the Browns compared to Miami is Weeden, TRich, Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and our DTs basically.

I honestly don't see Shurmur sticking around as head coach after the season. I wasn't a fan when we made the choice for him to be out HC and he has since given me any reason to change my feelings about him. Now does that mean firing him mid-season is the way to go? I'm not sure about that one but I wouldn't mind seeing Chilly get a chance to interim for the last 9 or so games and with him calling the plays if anything about our offense would change.

I am comletely in love with the idea of John Gruden as our next HC and Haslam's got the $$ why not go all out for a winner. The Indians just made a splash getting Francona as manager so maybe that'll push Haslam to get a big name in here to keep up with the other sports team in town.

Shurmur doesn't strike me as a winner. Maybe it's something about his demeanor or the blank "WTF am I doing?" look on his face at all times, he doesn't seem like the right man for the job. So I guess why not? We're not gonna compete for playoffs and if the idea is to fire him after the season anyways, let's get it over with sooner rather than later.

Anyone who actually wants Shurmur to remain the coach......................why??????????????????????

He might be the worst coach I have ever seen in any professional sport.

Simply put, he is in over his head, and it's OBVIOUS in every possible way.

I don't care WHEN he gets fired, just that he does. Before February._________________3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.

Is it Shurmurs fault that a fantastic WR core lit up our god awful secondary?

Is it Shurmurs fault that our QB threw two extremely ill timed interceptions in scoring position?

We have been less talented than every team we have played this season by a considerable margin. That falls on the GM everyone seems to love. Shurmurs opening up the attack and giving us opportunities to make plays but its hard because the only way to win games is if our mistake prone rookies carry our [inappropriate/removed] defense 100% of the way._________________

Is it Shurmurs fault that a fantastic WR core lit up our god awful secondary?

Is it Shurmurs fault that our QB threw two extremely ill timed interceptions in scoring position?

We have been less talented than every team we have played this season by a considerable margin. That falls on the GM everyone seems to love. Shurmurs opening up the attack and giving us opportunities to make plays but its hard because the only way to win games is if our mistake prone rookies carry our [inappropriate/removed] defense 100% of the way.

Is it Shurmur's fault that our starting DT, MLB, Slot CB, SS, WR, #3 WR, and OLB are all injured?

Just a general question - would Nick Saban be available (or could his contract with Bama be bought out?)

I like Gruden as a motivator, and for a while there he looked like the real boy genius - but the constant QB carrousel he ran in Tampa Bay was bad and frankly, any coach with those tendencies would NOT be a good fit here.

Just a general question - would Nick Saban be available (or could his contract with Bama be bought out?)

I like Gruden as a motivator, and for a while there he looked like the real boy genius - but the constant QB carrousel he ran in Tampa Bay was bad and frankly, any coach with those tendencies would NOT be a good fit here.

Why would he leave a high paying national championship program that he is in complete control of?

Just a general question - would Nick Saban be available (or could his contract with Bama be bought out?)

I like Gruden as a motivator, and for a while there he looked like the real boy genius - but the constant QB carrousel he ran in Tampa Bay was bad and frankly, any coach with those tendencies would NOT be a good fit here.

Why would he leave a high paying national championship program that he is in complete control of?

I don't know anything about his contract, but Bama will never let him go.

Nick Saban??? Does no one remember his stint with the Dolphins??

He's a college coach. An excellent one.

As far as Shurmur, we can continue to make excuses, but we've lost 11 in a row under his watch. At some point that lands on the shoulders of the HC.

He shouldn't be fired during the season though as it serves no purpose. Lerner isn't going to do it right before he leaves. Haslam is already on record saying no changes will happen until after the season.

I'm just hoping Gruden wants a crack at bringing the team he rooted for as a child back to its winning ways and is willing to keep Heckert and Jauron in place. I think that would work nicely._________________First Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.

At this point its getting really tough to defend Shurmur in some areas of the game. I dont know if he is the long term answer and I know we can't keep going over and over with this new coaching thing, but ya know what? Never expected that we'd have a new owner this year.

Its his team and this is his baby. He has my support._________________

Just a general question - would Nick Saban be available (or could his contract with Bama be bought out?)

I like Gruden as a motivator, and for a while there he looked like the real boy genius - but the constant QB carrousel he ran in Tampa Bay was bad and frankly, any coach with those tendencies would NOT be a good fit here.

Why would he leave a high paying national championship program that he is in complete control of?

I don't know anything about his contract, but Bama will never let him go.

Nick Saban??? Does no one remember his stint with the Dolphins??

He's a college coach. An excellent one.

As far as Shurmur, we can continue to make excuses, but we've lost 11 in a row under his watch. At some point that lands on the shoulders of the HC.

He shouldn't be fired during the season though as it serves no purpose. Lerner isn't going to do it right before he leaves. Haslam is already on record saying no changes will happen until after the season.

I'm just hoping Gruden wants a crack at bringing the team he rooted for as a child back to its winning ways and is willing to keep Heckert and Jauron in place. I think that would work nicely.

The Nick Saban who has won more games in consecutive seasons than any Browns coach has in consecutive seasons since we've returned?

Just a general question - would Nick Saban be available (or could his contract with Bama be bought out?)

I like Gruden as a motivator, and for a while there he looked like the real boy genius - but the constant QB carrousel he ran in Tampa Bay was bad and frankly, any coach with those tendencies would NOT be a good fit here.

Why would he leave a high paying national championship program that he is in complete control of?

I don't know anything about his contract, but Bama will never let him go.

Nick Saban??? Does no one remember his stint with the Dolphins??

He's a college coach. An excellent one.

As far as Shurmur, we can continue to make excuses, but we've lost 11 in a row under his watch. At some point that lands on the shoulders of the HC.

He shouldn't be fired during the season though as it serves no purpose. Lerner isn't going to do it right before he leaves. Haslam is already on record saying no changes will happen until after the season.

I'm just hoping Gruden wants a crack at bringing the team he rooted for as a child back to its winning ways and is willing to keep Heckert and Jauron in place. I think that would work nicely.

The Nick Saban who has won more games in consecutive seasons than any Browns coach has in consecutive seasons since we've returned?

Just because you're an elite college coach doesn't mean jack squat.

He's signed through 2019 at 5.1M+ per year. That number goes up 50k every year until 2020. He ain't going anywhere._________________