Thanks mike, Certainly some of the Buddha's talks (desana) are addressed on the conventional level (vohara desana) and some on the ultimate.On another tack, since it would be the most significant example of the Buddha's interaction with the feminine principle, can you advise whether the pre-enlightenment action of seeking ratification from the earth goddess is recorded in the Pali Canon or is it of later S.E.Asian origin?

paul wrote:On another tack, since it would be the most significant example of the Buddha's interaction with the feminine principle, can you advise whether the pre-enlightenment action of seeking ratification from the earth goddess is recorded in the Pali Canon or is it of later S.E.Asian origin?

The "touching the earth" thing? It's not in the Suttas, but in presumably in the Commentaries somewhere. Perhaps someone with the facts could comment...

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Thanks dave, You seem to have got the gist of what I am talking about and that has not been achieved through sitting meditation but rather along the lines of applying the factor of investigation (vicaya or vimamsa) to events in daily life: convention is by definition an artificial or customary process: practising renunciation or detachment releases a more expansive understanding- the realm of the immeasurables. For me there is also a metamorphic process in overcoming the hindrances (Vism XII,20).