Should the EU Commission sue countries refusing to take refugees?

The European Commission has launched infringement proceedings against members of the so-called ‘Visegrád Four’. The loose alliance of four Central European countries – the Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary – had been refusing to take refugees as part of an EU quota system (though Slovakia has since pledged to take in more).

Over 11,000 refugees have been assigned to the Visegrád Four nations as part of the EU’s emergency relocation scheme, but only 28 people have actually been settled so far. Hungary and Slovakia have challenged the mandatory nature of the scheme at the European Court of Justice (ECJ), though their challenge was dismissed by the court in September 2017 (the ECJ described the scheme as ‘proportionate’).

In June 2017, the Commission took the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland to the ECJ over their failure to accept refugees. If the court rules against them, then financial penalties can potentially be imposed. The Visegrád Four argue that, as well as being an infringement of their sovereignty, the relocation scheme raises security and integration concerns.

Curious to know more about EU infringement proceedings against the Visegrád Four countries? We’ve put together some facts and figures in the infographic below (click for a bigger version).

On 14 September 2017, we hosted – together with Euronews – a live YouTube interview with Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission. This is the second year in a row we have hosted the #AskJuncker event, and ahead of the interview we asked our readers to send us in comments and questions to be put to President Juncker.

We had a question sent in from Miguel, who asked:“What is the EU [doing] to prevent further rifts between the Commission and the Visegrad Four?” What would EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker say?

Should the EU Commission sue countries refusing to take refugees? Does the EU’s emergency relocation scheme infringe sovereignty, or is it proportionate to the challenge posed by the refugee crisis? Let us know your thoughts and comments in the form below and we’ll take them to policymakers and experts for their reactions!

Italy’a coasts are over 7.000 km length, and the country complies with binding international regulations. what do you suggest Italy should do when an ong vessel for instance has rescued xxx migrants at sea?? I would definitely agree that if the ong vessel is flying xxx flag all the migrants belong to vessel’s flag country. Would you??

Marko Martinović What do you mean “return them asap”? Return them where and how? What if the places where they come from don’t accept them back? Who will cover the cost of returning them back? What if after two months they are back again?

Marko Martinović oh really? Don’t you know that people have the right to ask for asylum before being eventually repatriated? And it is very confortable for UE countries claim Dublin rules and leave the burden to the first country of entry. And you haven’t replied to my question if a French or German ong vessel flying French or German flag should take the migrants in their own flag country. Very simple to disembark all of them in Italy right? and then claim we (Italians) should repatriate all of them (with our own money and efforts of course😈)

They have right to ask yes, but no one has obligation to automatically accept. After hundreads of deaths these people caused in the name of their religion, it is obvious that our cultures cannot coexist. Even in their own countries they are biggest human rights violators. Return them to closest point of origin. No one forced them in EU, they where safe before reaching it

I make it very easy: if saving migrants at sea is organized by European organization Frontex, and migrants are taken to the first European safe place, then asylum demands, hosting refugees and repatriation is an European task, not an Italian or Greek one, that’s it.

Syrians who escaped Syria, did not stop when they where safe, they pushed on and millions of people from other countries joined them. They where safe, but chose to force themselves on EU for benefits that we sponsor, then as gratitude they attack us, rape us and kill us because we are infidels.

I got your point but I don’t agree with your comment that EU should sue countries who let migrants in when vessels of all flags disembark all of hem in Italy as if it was our choice. Let them disembark migrants in your country. And you take care of migrants repatriation. Thank you.

They cant sue any country who refusing to take refugees, as 90 % are not even a refugee but an economic refugee who are looking for freehome, governments benefits, free health care, etc…only they are here for the benefits! Not fleeing from war….they even refuse to intergrate……causing only trouble

While that is an interesting theory that in no way related to the actual UNHCR data on this, my thoughts on the matter is to ask why we even need free-riding, subsidy-eating welfare queen republics who have no sense of decency, respect for western legal principles, or in some cases, loyalty NATO is the geostrategic sense.

do you lead by example taking someone at home or you are like the others that want to house them in places they do not visit very often…

Paul XOctober 9th, 2017

The major difference is that the “refugees” (colonists) from Europe left a civilised society and went to the new worlds where there was nothing to support them but their own efforts and they contributed much to improving conditions in those countries…….illegal immigration into Europe is the polar opposite of this in every way

Anyway, the parallel isn’t with colonisation. The wave of mass migration to the United States in the early 20th century is probably a better fit. The irony is that Irish, Poles, Italians, etc., all emigrated in huge numbers to the United States and were accused of bringing disease, crime, and Bolshevism. In hindsight, they greatly enriched US society and culture.

Paul XOctober 10th, 2017

@ James, I think you will find the indigenious populations of many countries didn’t exactly welcome the Romans but no-one can dispute the positive impact they had on these countries with regards to improving infrastructure and introducing new technologies…….or can we say Italy has an obligation to take all it’s current immigrants because of the attitude of the Roman Empire?

And I disagree with your parallel, the fundamental difference is that the US encouraged mass immigration in the 19th century, it had masses of space and an endless requirement for manpower for construction, neither which has ever applied to Europe and certainly not in the present day

Rory O'KeeffeOctober 10th, 2017

Daniel Parvanov, you realise that the refugee relocation scheme applies to EVERY EU state? Not, as you seem to think ‘the ones you don’t often visit’?

Don’t be silly, refugee policy is the preserve of the Nation’s, not of the unelected European Politburo. The real question is ‘Should the Nation States sue Juncker for turning Luxembourg into a tax heaven that robbed them of billions of Euro’s ?’

There is an UN policy to keep these people in Africa in UN camps till situation is good enough to go back from the UN camps to own country…even in the foreign host countries is the same policy…..IT IS TEMPORARY HOSTING TILL SITUATION IN OWN COUNTRY IS OK, then they have to patriated back!…this is the Policy…not what our governments are telling to us…they are lieing!

No, When the EU is imposing foreign policy, yes, right now non NATO countries cant pay for NATO mistakes (and NATO sucks) and if you do this the internal EU relations will keep fracturing, focus on FRONTEXxxxxxxx , uniting the EU and achieving economic stability inside the EU for all member states first

You would leave your defence to the same people that created the migrant crisis, the Euro crisis,the banking crisis, the democratic deficit crisis, the unemployment crisis and drove millions of EU Europeans into poverty ? Very strange.

Deniz Celik That’s strange because Saudi Arabia doe’s not recognise ‘refugees’ as they are not a signatory of the United Nations’ 1951 Refugee Convention. I think you will find the claimed number are actually cheap labour workers.

No, this is a sovereign decision that each country can and has to be allowed to make for itself. It is clearly stated in all EU founding documents and later legislation what part of each nation’s soveregnity it gives away to the Union. This isn’t one of them.
Furthermore, the European Comission is not a democratically elected institution by the European citizens and therefore it shouldn’t have the legitimate right to order around the member states.
The only European institution that has the legitimate power to do something like this is the European Parliament, and I am pretty sure this decision won’t be accepted there.

I support the idea that Europe should help poor people. But first of all, it’s not a competition, in which only a few poor people should be helped, and secondly, you do know that the EU is the richest political bloc ever to have existed? With three of the world’s top seven economies in it?

We can afford to help poor people, whether European or refugees. Your argument is correct – we need to help poor people – but we don’t achieve that by refusing to help refugees

No. that’s a weak response. What we should do is tell those countries that if they are not in the mood to abide by EU law, and to generally behave as civilized nations, then do don’t really need them in our club of civilized nations. Especially if they are also some kind of subsidy-eating welfare-queen

I don’t see it as separation. I see it as, the west’s relationship with such countries is one-sided, and needs to be drawn to a close until such time as they can remember that the west doesn’t just have money and a military defense umbrella, but also laws, standards, treaties, and so on. And that we really don’t appreciate eating your cake and having it too.

Barbara Szela Lesniak , Although I shed a tear for how Poland was treated by Germany and by Russia, the fact that most of the west turned away refugees from your country when they needed it most is specifically what gave birth to current laws on the matter.

The point stands though. No free riding please. No eating your cake and having it too. You can’t just get a free economic bailout in 2009, economic subsidies, and subsidized military protection from Russia, but then flaunt laws and civilized standards whenever you feel its in your short-term convenience.

If that’s the way Poland feels, then how do they even add value to the EU or to the NATO alliance? Is the fact that Poland had a tough history going to enable them to be free-riding parasites for the rest of time?

Paweł Kunio Sorry, but your reply makes no sense. I’m sorry that our the internal economic policies of the west do not suit the delicate preferences of those living on the other side of the EU. But that is no excuse for being a free-riding subsidy-eating welfare queen.

Maia AlexandrovaOctober 10th, 2017

Max Berre, you have misunderstood the whole point of those countries refusing to take the illegal migrants. They do not lack solidarity, Poland even said they would rather take refugees from Ukraine, but not the Muslims that EU is forcing on them. To understand their point of view better, I would suggest that you buy a Quran and read what it says about how Muslims should treat non-Muslims – then it will all become clear to you. These are people who HATE European culture by default – how can you accept with open arms and help someone who already hates you and plans to override the laws of your country and impose their religious laws over you at some point in the future, or harm you? Would you let wasps live in your house? Do not compare Polish immigrants with these! The Polish do not hate you or want to harm you in any way. They contribute to the countries where they live and do not cause trouble. There is no base for comparison! It is ridiculous to claim that you prefer hostile abusers and terrorists from the Middle East, or Muslim women whose only work will be that of baby factories paid by your benefits, but want to exclude from EU indigenous Europeans whose immigrants love their host countries and work hard to earn their living! Do you see the reality in Germany now? The cases of rape in some places there have doubled, terrorist attacks happen every few months, innocent Germans die. Are you blind? How can you be defending this??? There has to be a separation between EU and hostile Muslims, not between EU and friendly Europeans!

Paul XOctober 10th, 2017

Whilst I have no particular affinity for the “subsidy-eating welfare-queens” within the EU , I do not think it is acceptable for them to forced to accept the consequences of something that is not law, just an ill conceived, liberal left ideology of the major EU countries……at the end of the day, there are plenty of other “civilised nations” on this planet who are not taking any refugees

Meh, I’d say that it’s more of a quid pro-quo situation. True, they don’t need to behave as a civilized country would, in line with both law and existing treaty obligations. But we don’t need to treat them as a civilized country, as a military ally, or as a country who needs to have its entire economy subsidized either. We could just cut them off wholesale, and see if they get as underdeveloped as Albania.

Max Berre OK – if you’re talking about money – maybe you’re able to explain why your country has never paid reparations for what you did to Poland during WW2 ? Have you seen the photos of Warsaw bombed by Hitler? We rebuilt the city by ourselves – people came from all over the country to rebuild their capital city …. If you hadn’t murdered our elites, bombed our cities, stolen our national treasures and then had given us away to Stalin regime – then maybe Poland would be much more ‘civilized’ than today’s Germany? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy1kOwUyEsM

True, but if you join a club, you have to abide by its rules. The idiotic UK (my country, sadly) has demonstrated that it is possible to leave the EU, so other countries that do not wish to adhere to civilised norms are free to do the same thing.

Maia AlexandrovaOctober 10th, 2017

Max Berre, there are no EU treaty obligations towards third countries. Don’t twist the legislation just to suit your own evil attitude towards Eastern Europeans!

Paul XOctober 10th, 2017

“but if you join a club, you have to abide by its rules”
…but the issue is those “rules” were not in place when the club was joined and their introduction was done without the consent of all the members….that may be the sort of club you want to be part of but thankfully my idiotic(sic) country is leaving

This issue raises 2 fundamental questions; are the people involved refugees as defined in international law ? What should be the scope of the EU in nation’s home affairs and immigration policy ?

The first seems questionable as a great many ( perhaps the majority) of migrants moving to Europe do so for economic reasons, rather than persecution, fear of death.

The second highlights the disconnect between Brussels and the populace.
Clearly Brussels is acting in accordance with the law established via treaty….but only now do the majority of citizens start to appreciate the extent to which decision making and sovereignty has been passed from national parliaments to the EU.

The EUs job is not taking care of borders. The EU consist of a group of countries so your country fucked up too. Also fuck humane acts right? Better toss all the helpless people into the ocean? Is that really better?

Like it or not you are all citizens of a Great Germany, its just called the European Union to fool you.

Maia AlexandrovaOctober 10th, 2017

Deniz Celik, the obligation to protect the EU borders is in the EU treaties, so that’s EXACTLY its job. About humanity – compare what Turkey gives to refugees (in Turkey they are genuine refugees because they are coming from neighbouring countries in war) with what they have in Europe and then talk again! In Turkey refugees have a secondary status, with no permission to work, no school for refugee children, but just illegal child labour and exploitation, no financial help, no life. They are even ready to drown in the sea, but not to live in Turkey – it is that “humane”! In Europe even illegal migrants have a status above the local population – everything is given to them on a plate, they can work, study, look after their families, plan a future. If anyone is acting inhumanely in their attitude towards refugees, it is Turkey!

All EU states had a quota of refugees to take. Only these four spat their dummies out and refused. It’s not about ‘putting refugees somewhere we don’t visit’ it’s about everyone stepping up together and behaving like decent human beings. If Hungary, Poland , the Czech Republic and Slovakia don’t like it, they can step away from the EU and the massive economic benefits it gives them. But they don’t want to lose that money. Instead, they want to take the cash AND refuse to be a part of what the EU does.

Every country is different, and aproach of the nation including which relegen dominate in the country..You cannot force countries to take refugees otherwise you get the anger of the nation and that can lead to another state leaving the EU. No matter what a government wants, if it is too different what the nation wants.. they choose another direction, there always be other parties who will offer different directions..

If they don’t want to do what the EU does, they can leave. They are lucky the EU doesn’t just tell them to get out, and is instead looking for smaller ways to get them to deserve the massive amount of money the EU gives them by just doing what the rest of the EU is also doing.

Countries that dont take in refugees committed no crime since they dont break any law. But it does make them show less solidarity. Leaving helpless people on their own,its terrible to not show at least a bit of love to these people.

Countries that do not do their share to deal with pan-European problems like this force other countries to do more than their fair share. Once a policy has been agreed and signed off on, the member states should have a choice. Support it or leave the union.

Max the thing is I dont think that seperation is ever a good thing. Seperation was never good for anyone and if we’re willing to give up on a country THAT easily we can only fail,not as a country,but as a great region.
Besides that it wouldnt change much,just we throw a country frpm the union doesnt mean they’ll change their decision. How are you gonna change something if you cut all ties to the thing you wana change?

Barbara thats not correct,most of the refugees ARE actual refugees. And in what way does poland help exactly? All I know is that they more care about talking good rather than actually doing good. I think every country should help,its like with charity,if every country took in the same number of refugees,the crisis could be easily overcome. But noooo,some countries thought it’d be better to act on high horses and all just so that they dont have to do any more work.
If money is the problem the EU offers help,theres literally no reason to not help.

Paul XOctober 10th, 2017

@Deniz Celik
“most of the refugees ARE actual refugees”…maybe you should show something to back this up… most of the available statistics do not agree with you?

Then it shows it’s true colours.. nothing more than a dictatorship. Each country has,it’s own problems, it’s own homeless peoples, it’s own peoples struggling to get work. How can they offer support to outsiders first. You don’t starve your children to feed someone else’s first.

You’re kidding. Isn’t it Merkel who should be sued for violating European law about refugees allowing migrants (not only from Syria) to enter the Shengen zone with no basic procedures checking their identity? What’s more, Germany has suspended deporting asylum-seekers from Syria under the EU’s Dublin Regulation. Under the rule, migrants can only apply for asylum in the first EU member state they enter, and face deportation if they try to apply in another. But Germany, which has long complained that the Dublin system is failing, has ordered its officers to process applications from Syrians even if they have made their way through other EU countries.
.

The Dublin rules are outdated and unfair my dear. A single country cannot face a migration which is well beyond normality. It is confortable for the rest of Europe hiding behind these funny rules and claim asylum seekers are someone else burden. The world is changing and rules must be updated accordingly, my dear.

Rosanna Roxy Corty Outdated or not, the rules, if they need to be changed, they should be changed in most democratic way, i.e. referendum. SO far, they haven’t been changed so Merkel decided against the rules illegally causing chaos and lack of security for citizens. Forcing other EU countries to open their borders for non-EU immigrants is crime. Merkel hasn’t been voted to be the leader who can decide for other independent countries. It’s about safety, not just comfort or discomfort. I do feel sorry for the people of the EU border countries and think their leaders failed to guarantee safety for their own citizens by agreeing to follow Merkel’s orders.

Barbara Szela Lesniak we, Italians, were not granted a referendum to agree whether or not all the foreign flag rescue vessels could disembark all the migrants in Italy. International laws and conventions are not subject to a referendum. Either you are part of a community or you fly on your own.

Rosanna Roxy Corty In spite of what’s been said here and in European Parliament, Poland has been giving help but in ways other than those Merkel is trying to impose on us, which we think is not fair. We should be given the right to choose how we want to help. Btw., nobody has said here that Poland has been accepting refugees from Ukraina for years – there are lots of them living and working here and they feel at home in Poland as they respect our law and culture.

Rosanna Roxy Corty The thing is that in Europe they are not refugees but immigrants and most of them have either none or fake identity documents. Anyway, I don’t think A.Merkel or you are entitled to dictate Poland who we want to accept in our home country. I’m sorry but you sound arrogant. Anyway, thanks for the conversation. I’m trying to be polite so I suppose we’ve said enough.

Barbara Szela Lesniak Arrogance belongs to whom staying in a community (and take benefits out of it) and feeling safe because not geographically exposed, pretends one sole country deals alone with an epochal migration. And I won’t say more….

Barbara Szela Lesniak Arrogance belongs to whom staying in a community (and take benefits out of it) and feeling safe because not geographically exposed, pretends one sole country deals alone with an epochal migration. Good bye.

Well, this is becoming sick. You’ve obviously ignored the fact that my country, that borders Ukraine’ has been accepting Ukrainian refugees for many years. That’s enough for a country that’s been betrayed by the West many times and was traded away into Soviet Union after WWII. You’d better learn a bit about Europe and Poland’s history. We have proved to be empathetic many times in history. Isn’t it our soldiers who fought for your freedom during WWII in Monte Casino battle? Polish pilots fought in RAF in Britain, etc.. What have Italians done for Poland? Where was your solidarity when Germany invaded Poland in 1939.? Do you know how much my country suffered both from Germany and Russia? And that’s because our geographical position, too. Please, spare me the lesson on arrogance or ignorance. Think of yours. If I were you, I would feel ashamed. http://www.polamjournal.com/Library/APHistory/monte/monte.html

(Not to say that Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, sub saharian countries etc are not bordering Italy). Migration causes subject has to be dealt with common efforts as I believe that in terms of a few decades, view demographic growth and lack of leadership migrants will cover me, you and the moon…. there won’t be borders protecting anybody

Rosanna Roxy Corty The world has changed, the EU has changed, but human nature hasn’t. History is to be taught not to make same mistakes over and over again. My ancestors fought for the freedom of my country for centuries and we won’t give it up and allow the Germans, France or you to decide for us. We democratically voted for our government and not for Merkel, Juncer or Schultz. We want to live in a safe country with no terrorism. It’s your choice – you want it, you’ve got it and it’s not Poland to tell your government what to do. Also, Western Europe has debts to pay to their colonies for centuries of slavery and overexploitation. Poland has nothing to do with it. If you feel aggrieved now, please talk to Merkel – it was her decision. If you supported it and still do, sorry – you can’t force others to risk their safety for your mad ideas. And if you think it’s about UE money, please keep it to yourself. Safety and people’s lives are not what money can buy. Btw., Germany has never paid WWII reparations to Poland, the country that suffered the most. We rebuilt our country by ourselves. And sure, you’d love to forget that shameful history, wouldn’t you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr5uGi7mil4

Strange enough the majority of migrants are not coming from Italian ex colonies…. apart Libya which has been destabilized by actions of some Europeans “exporters of democracy” which led to a complete inferno.

Hahhaha! Anybody really knows which colony they come from? Anybody is sure of their identity? Please, ask Merkel – she is supposed to know everything. Sorry, it’s not Poland’s fault. And good luck, anyway. Btw., has it ever crossed yoour mind why this happens …? And doesn’t it make it even more weird that you want to sue Poland for not accepting the so called refugees, while you should call them ‘immigrants’ ? Hands off Poland, please. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/08/world/gulf-states-syrian-refugee-crisis/index.html

Yes! It is funny that just a few countries should struggle with this problem just because of their geographical position. Can Italy say no to immigration like others are doing? Is Europe a union with common borders? Yes or no?? On top, some who claim Europe may face other exits because of migrants quotas are those who definitely benefit from being in the EU.

Rosanna Roxy Corty Why are you copying comments you’ve already posted? Should I do the same? So, my response to the above was ‘ Rosanna Roxy Corty The world has changed, the EU has changed, but human nature hasn’t. History is to be taught not to make same mistakes over and over again. My ancestors fought for the freedom of my country for centuries and we won’t give it up and allow the Germans, France or you to decide for us. We democratically voted for our government and not for Merkel, Juncer or Schultz. We want to live in a safe country with no terrorism. It’s your choice – you want it, you’ve got it and it’s not Poland to tell your government what to do. Also, Western Europe has debts to pay to their colonies for centuries of slavery and overexploitation. Poland has nothing to do with it. If you feel aggrieved now, please talk to Merkel – it was her decision. If you supported it and still do, sorry – you can’t force others to risk their safety for your mad ideas. And if you think it’s about UE money, please keep it to yourself. Safety and people’s lives are not what money can buy. Btw., Germany has never paid WWII reparations to Poland, the country that suffered the most. We rebuilt our country by ourselves. And sure, you’d love to forget that shameful history, wouldn’t you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr5uGi7mil4

Many countries like Tunisia/Morocco/Pakistan refuse to take them back, best thing to do is strike a deal with a poor third-party country & deport them there, with some money & let them return on their own.

Israel has a great way of handling illegals & does exactly what I described above, it also holds people in camps, doesn’t let them work, doesn’t let them leave & takes years to process their application for pretend asylum.

They self-deport, many African’s are sent to Uganda & they then travel back from there.

Romania was not even allowed in Schengen, so why would we accept the same obligations if we don’t have the same rights?! And besides, most refugees don’t want to live in poor EU countries. The border police in Romania caught refugees who left the camp where they lived in this country and wanted to pass the border to Germany. You can’t force people to live in particular countries and you can’t give them all the same living conditions across the EU. The local population would not accept to see refugees getting more money from the state just for sitting here than they get for a full-time job. And the minimum wage in Romania is aprox. 232 euros/month, so you can imagine why refugees don’t want to live here…

Nikos Morenos, Greece, Spain and Italy do not have to take the burden, but deport the illegal migrants to the countries where they came from, because these countries are safe. If the source country refuses to take them, it becomes a problem for the United Nations to address, unless a deal like the one with Turkey is agreed. Europe cannot take all the millions of economic migrants from Africa and Asia who want to come. At the same time, it is a legal obligation for Greece, Italy, Spain, Hungary and Bulgaria to protect EU’s external borders from illegal crossings. This is the law in the EU treaties. At the moment only Hungary and Bulgaria are fulfilling their obligations under EU law. There is no law regarding the unconditional acceptance of citizens of third countries into the EU. One thing is certain – the more accidental people Greece and Italy allow to stay, the more will come and the more will die on the way. How humane is this and why should it be encouraged? You should return them to where they came from and protect EU borders as the treaties require!

Germans (now pretending to be EU) were never mentally healthy, because if they were, then there would be no tragedy of WW 2. The situation is aggravated by the fact that the obedient but yet powerful nation is ruled by a woman, and women, as we know, act emotionally rather than rationally, they do not like to admit to mistakes, because it moves them emotionally.

Also lets take that sexist claim. Men have ruled for the past thousands of years and what did we get? War, war, war, war, war and hitler. Luckly we now finaly have a woman ruling germany. Hopefully the US russia and china are next <3 Sexist bullshit.

Roxana Roxy Corty, it is not all about money. I guess you will gain much more from the millions of hostile Muslims who hate European culture and want to destroy it by imposing their own religious laws over the secular laws in Europe. In addition, you will gain even more from Muslim women, because their main “occupation” is being baby factories paid by your benefits. The aim – Muslims to become a majority in Europe. You decide whose loss it will be! Look beyond money!

Some Nazi anyone ?? Yes please .. Can we ask this CLOWN Junker who is checking amoungst these “refugees” who all seem to be young men, who is ISIS/AL CAIDA amoungst them ?? Merkel said there are thousands of jihadists who have “enntered” Europe (all with the EU’s help)

EU you will lose countries if you pressure them to take lots of immigrants and refugees. 75% of Poles support EU, but 50%+ support leaving if you push immigrants. Visegrad is similar. Many Euroskeptics in South and West Europe willl grow.

EU needs major reform. Less pressuring. Less US.
Accept that Slavic people are different.
Accept the Poles, Russians, Ukrainians. They are all European mostly.
Accept your “diversity” of thoughts. Some people prefer tradition and Christianity.

No, I think each nation has it’s own right to determine what it’s population diversity should be in relation to what it’s citizens are in favour of, however I am in favour of privileges given to nations by the EU be regulated by how much of the burden they are willing to share with the EU collective e.g acceptance of refugees.

Should the European indigenous tax payer sue the leadership and the European Commission for encouraging and allowing mass migration into their respective countries, without first asking the people of those countries, if the mayhem they were creating by doing this, was what they were happy to see imposed on their homelands by force?

The countries refusing to take this disastrous political movement into their homelands have every right to refuse to obey. The peoples who pay their wages and expect them to put their welfare first voted them in to do just that. Protect them from an invading mass. If those defiant leaders follow the madness of commission dictators, by demanding they commit cultural suicide, then by giving way to such annihilation of their culture under top down pressure, they will be traitors to their heritage. And should then get ready to be culled themselves.

If EU Commission sues the Visegrad countries, then it also has to sue all the rest who have not taken their allocated share of the 160,000 illegal migrants, since only 29,000 have been moved so far. Why are the others not fulfilling their “obligations” and what punishment is planned for them? So, of course, it is not the right course of action to take. The relocation plan bad and should be scrapped.

1) There are Europeans that understand (more or less consciously) that opening our external borders won’t solve poverty in Africa.

2) There are Europeans that don’t find it fair that Angela Merkel worsened the illegal immigration problem, and now there is an official movement to punish rebel countries that don’t want to comply with the rule of sharing responsibility on the issue.

3) There are Europeans that don’t find it fair that Europe does not have a well functioning mechanism to help the States through which the immigrants come in.

4) There are Europeans angry with the manipulative use of the term ‘refugee’.

5) There are Europeans that look forward to see the EU falling apart, guided for their desire of security and respect for their people.

I’m in groups 1, 2, 3, and 4.

For Europeans in group 5, I would tell them to think on the external threats, in the human, economic, and military fields.

Call things by their name, don’t pull in an Orwellian ‘Animal Farm’ (group 4 would tell you @debatingeurope).

These times are an opportunity to improve cooperation and coordination mechanisms, and every proud European aware of our history and the current world context would yell out loud ‘we will not leave any European nation alone!’ (group 3),

Although it is hard to pass over the irresponsibility and disregard that Angela Merkel showed up back then. And for the sake of fairness we don’t want this ‘judgement’ to be framed only over Visegrad group.
Justice should have memory, (group 2).

Immigration is not a solution to solve poverty in Africa, nor to solve the problems in Europe.
And I’m not going to explain why, because I’m tired of the issue, and my break time is over, but I’d tell it loud if the lies continue going on. (group 1).

There is a lot more to say, and I hope the debate will become smarter, and @debatingeurope has an opportunity there.

The whole policy of distributing refugees is flawed anyway, a countries ability to accept a large influx of people is based on only two things, how much space it has and how much money it has.
Greece, where many refugees arrive, is only number 20 on the list of EU countries by population density (all the countries in this topic have a higher density) therefore it clearly it has more landmass to accommodate more refugees than most other countries. All it does lack is the money, so rather than ask (force) countries to take refugees the EU should just ask (demand) more money to give to Greece. Greece gets money, Greek builders get the jobs constructing the required infrastructure, everybody is happy

Unfortunately, as with most things EU, it is all about gesture politics rather than logic, countries are forced to accept refugees for no other reason than to give an impression of “solidarity” and to hell with the consequences for the people they are supposed to serve

Why people are blaming refugees rather than those leading to such chaotic situation in Europe? In my opinion, states supporting the US military intervention in Syria ought to take most responsibilities. Further thinking, EU member states take military action with NATO but the problem is EU to bear. Isn’t it the time to make a rational choice between NATO and EU military leadership? I do not see why EU member states ought to support American foreign policy rather than a EU policy. Which is, EU’s collective security should be EU’s own responsibility and under its own initiative.

Gotta love the constant US bashing on these forums, in reality the war in Syria was a civil war all of it”s own making, if the west had got involved sooner the refugee crisis may not have got so out of hand. But if you must blame some external country for the problems then I suggest you focus on Russia, they have been supporting Assad in his abuses of the Syrian population for years

Jane TseOctober 13th, 2017

Those member states participated in making this mess ought to pay more to help settlement of refugees in other states and all available resources ought to be mobilized. Hope that EU has already called for the international society of states to help solve the problem. Rich Middle East countries might be help to take some refugees for they are mainly Muslims? May be EU can also call for the US to take up more refugees for it is Obama’s foreign policy which has rendered such a mess before he can kicked off his policy on returning to East Pacific…

The “refugees” are not refugees at all. Those “fleeing” zones of conflict i.e grown men of fighting age, should be in their countries, fighting for it, many fled Syria when they were called up by the Syrian army, others because they heard about Merkel’s surrender of Germany’s borders.

For those unable, they’re surrounded countries for them to go to & aid can be given, plus logistical support.
Anyone leaving a safe country i.e Turkey, is simply leaving for economic reasons, not of safety, the most famous with that little boy who drowned (which was the fathers fault), had been living in Turkey for 2 years at least.

The “refugee” influx into Europe, contained people from all over the world, Europe didn’t cause their disadvantage of poverty or whatever reason other than war & has no responsibility to them, other than what it gives voluntarily.

All “refugees” should be sent to a neutral country on each continent where Europe makes a deal & deports them there for a fee, most pretend refugees won’t want this & would self-deport.

Israel does this, it works a treat for them, it also doesn’t allow illegals to work, to leave camps or to marry & they deport through boredom & frustration.

Sharing the burden is a good idea, however, when it comes to asylum and refugees,, it would be a big mistake to force individual countries to take them on contrary to their will. A fundamental concept is that you want to provide the refuge and the asylum. But also from the point of view of the refugees, it is very important for their mental and physical well-being that they are accepted somewhere where they feel welcome. It is important that both sides feel happy with each other and work towards integration. Refugees also need stability and not to be sent from one country to another. If the law allows such lawsuit, it should be changed. You can’t force people to take you into their home. Period. People’s lives cannot be a game for politicians and law-makers to play. Providing a refuge and/or asylum should purely be on voluntary basis.

Paschalis Bourletsikas you send the Navy forces. It’s a matter of protecting our countries, while instead some of them, including Ngo’s, made agreements with traffickers encouraging always more people to face the trip and the sea risks. If you start kicking asses and send back boats, instead of inviting them to come, the problem would have been solved years ago. Fuck the politically correct.

No actually the EU countries should go the UN and sue the EU for forcing their own agenda upon them and for threatening their sovereignty. Most European countries joined the EU due to it at first being JUST a trade agreement. But it has grown all more and more of a Federal Union and imposes laws within the EU countries without them having a say in it. I think there should be a referendum held on the power that the EU has.

Patrizia Carelli yes it was. The EEC was established by Western European countries in 1957 solely to trade freely with one another. Since the Lisbon Treaty in 2009 the EU has become more and more of a Federal organisation rather than just a mere trade agreement.

All EU member states have agreed to follow European law and accept the legal system of the EU. If the Commission does not sue member states that are openly violating European law, it is not fulfilling its duties under the treaties that the member states themselves ratified.

If the EU had a all professional EU Defense Force, there would be no refugees in the European Union . The solution is to construct a all professional EU Defense Force, upgrading , expanding and transforming a all professional EU Defense Force , so as to thwart the Turkish State Sponsored flood of illegal immigrants into the EU designed by Turkey to undermine the institutions of the EU beginning with Schengen , that leads to the destruction of the EU – That is what Turkey wants.

Should EU members sue EU for deciding this policy without having the majority of nations agree on these terms? France and Germany may have big economies and population but what gives them right to open the borders for anyone disregarding the basic difference: war migrants and economical migrants…..

Well.. according to the EU treaties, which all member states have ratified, the Commission is obliged to sue member states that are not complying with the treaties. It happens every now and then, no big issue.

1) This initiative is based on a lie. These countries take in refugees who go to their borders, ask for asylum and qualify for asylum.
2) These countries refuse to participate in the EU’s quota system, which is an administrative measure. They refuse because the quota system is a pull-factor for migration and because the quota system infringes on sovereignity.

Good luck with the sueing. Unless the court is as corrupted as the rest of the EU leadership, there shouldn’t be much concerns about it.

The same question can be backwards too. Should the countries from the EU sue EU for failed policies that affected so many people in a negative way ? Watch out for dictatorship, if it’s a democracy amongst nations, if some want ok, if some don’t ok.

Absolutely yes. All countries need to work together as a UNION, If they do not accept their humanitarian responsibility, then they need to pay to others that do. This will financially help Greece and Italy who have the biggest burden. The transfer is probably around 50000 Euro per refugee.

EU should sue countries vampirizing the other member states through tax escape/optimisation, like Luxembourg, Ireland, Malta, Nederland, aso., and let each country decide democraticly if they are able and willing to admit more migrants than they already have and how much. Keep in mind refugees are less than 2% of the migrants flux breaking in EU(data UNHCR), so they are not a problem at all.

I am always admired by people who say that if there aren’t tax hells then there wouldn’t be tax havens but the tax havens offer less than 6-7% corporate tax which is so low that if anyone tax the business at this level it would mean the end of the welfare state. Isn’t it strange that they actually tax their own local business as hell but are haven to the international ones?

The problem w tackling the Tax Heavens is that you need a supranational entity to do it .. then you have the problem of enforcing the law (who will?) .. then you have the problem that most wealthy people want to use them as they are against sharing their “hard won” dollars with the “free loaders” .. I think the only way to tax these companies and individuals is to get the tax in the countries they operate or live. The EU could pass a law to that effect but even then it would have to be enforced by each individual country .

Mauricio Giordanelli there is an argument for that, but this issue is creating so much animosity and I don’t think it’s worth it. I think Hungary and Poland are wrong to refuse to resettle, but they should not be forced to do so.

The Great and Wonderful EU has it’s rules that transcend everything else and lets not forget they are concerned about the coffers. Think of it as an additional EU PROJECT TAX. After that bit of cynical rhetoric it is reasonable that all within the EU recognise the plight of others and each country to help others while the EU head bods do need to recognise each of the 27 have different infrastructures and social structures both of which may challenge the indigenous groups but each of these also needs to recognise they also have a responsibility to humanity. But to sue is I consider not the right path. The World has developed through people movement since we could travel – fearing change is no reason not to challenge but change can also be enriching to any country.

Things have change since Poland entered UE. West Europe will become Islamic state in future. The EU is ruled by irresponsible people for whom only the “master-servant” relationship with East Europe is acceptable. Eastern Europe will not accept this direction of change and therefore must leave the EU. The sooner, the better.

Poland signed the treaty – so if Poland does not whant to accept democratic decissions the can leave. But please repay your 9.5 billion Euros you get every year by the european neighbors. And dont forget, that Poland has a lot of people in the parliament and also positions in the other european institutions. If you are not happy with that, your government is part of the system.

You’re kidding, as always …. Member countries are independent and it’s not Merkel or Juncker’s business to dictate EU contries what they should do. Citizens of those countries have voted neither for Merkel nor Juncker.

I think all the countries should give shelter to refugees. Temporary, until the situation come back to normal in their countries… What is unfair, is that you take the ones with a good professional background, for us you leave only the unadapted and unqualified…

I really think that Europe’s future is as a federation, as the US. But it will take more than 50 years to go there. … US had to pass also through a seccesion war, only after that the US became a country (not 50…) and the americans a Nation.

Some sort of sanction is needed, I’m not sure money’s the issue, since what we need is to help each other, which is precisely what those who refuse refugees are doing: make the others deal with the crisis alone. We’re either all in this together, or the Union will cease to exist.

So you say that Italy and Greece have the numbers of refugees they want? This issue cannot be solved leaving member states freedom of choice because no member state would choose to take some. Instead the principle of solidarity is fundamental in Europe.

EU nations that want to refuse refugees in times of urgent demand should be required to prove their claims that they can’t support x number of people to the ECJ. As far as simply not wanting them is concerned, that’s not really an option, is it?

Just think of the people out there in the snow and their children.They have nowhere to go.. their country is in ruins….who would refuse to give them shelter ???. All EU governments need to take responsibility….they have joined the EU for advantages….bu there is also responsibilities…..

Should the unelected EU Politburo sue ‘elected’ National governments for doing exactly what the people elected them to do ? Debating Europe has just confirmed what more & more people are coming to realise, the EU is a dictatorship.

Just let these countries pay for it. They are net receivers, so they have to receive less money. The money that can be collected with it can be given to the countries who take their fair share of refugees plus the refugees who can’t go to the Visegrad countries. By the way, I live in the Czech Republic, just like a lot of other economic migrants (expacts) and we are all allowed to work here and to let taxes taken away from our salary. I don’t feel like just paying for the jobless (useless) Czech people, in my eyes these 3000 refugees should be welcomed!

How will you bann people who have nothing else than the death? European staates are rich (also the poor greek, italien and spanish) and as long as Europa is unfair with is agreements to african staates there will be no stop of refugees.

How can it anyway be that Bratislava/Slovakia is complaining about European agencies not going there? I’m sure that the other European countries would be a lot more friendly to the Visegrad countries if they would behave normally. For example: https://borgenproject.org/estonian-refugees/

just a question? why don’t you do biometrics to everyone who enters? if they do it in the army for tatoo’s are u lazy? U just have to bind them with consent to do biometrics and enter the sys. as a refugee or ciao. Not all people are inocent kids and women/men, there are criminals in their midst and they come from a fear based society, do get out of the chair sometimes. we know the strategic oficce is a mess, leaking what they should not! Remember Duncan? People are paying taxes!…

Νο.
Ιts an Economic Union and not exactly a union as soon as they do not share a common tax policy, not a Tyrrany. Each HOME should decide for itself. We did not enter the EU to lose our countries and our id.

Trities are signed by goverments and must be activated by every member state …obligations from Treaties obide every country which singed it , otherwise there is an injustice to the members who respect the Treaty… so countries that don`t accept refugees and have signed otherwise should be oblidged ,in the very same way Greece is obliged to have austerity measures , end of story

What is the Visegrad Group?
The Visegrad Group (V4) – an association of four Central European countries – Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary, whose goal is to deepen cooperation between these countries. The date was established after the meeting on February 15, 1991 of the presidents of Poland (Lech Wałęsa) and Czechoslovakia (Václav Havel) and the Hungarian prime minister (József Antall) at the castle in the Hungarian city of Visegrad.
In 1992, the Central European Free Trade Agreement (CEFTA) was concluded within the group, between Poland and the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary.

They ARE NOT refugees, silly sirs. Just look at the UK: soon british authorities will expel these hordes that have only one purpose: to camouflage the infiltration of terrorists and to destroy Western civilization.

Dee O’brien Sure we are only the cash cows to be milked. Now they want their superstate war machine and will take our children’s blood too. Empire building federalist fanatics won’t be happy until they dismantle our nations and take complete control.

They can go to Luxemburg. Fortunately the ones that came to my country after a few months they run away to Germany and Northern countries. They do not like here when they learn when the EU subsidy finish they have to work. They prefer to live in a country where they can live on tax payers back.

Allow tax avoidance-for trade profits, want refugees as new desperate employees for trade profits and as future tax payers, EU citizens are the consumers-for trade profits. Nothing else matters to the EU. And EU tax payers must pay the EU a fine now. What are you going to do with the money? Give it to corporations to help them increase their profits?

This page was set up because the EU are worried about the growing scepticism,it’s to give the people the impression that they have a voice when in actuality it’s just lip service.There is probably some bureaucrat or intern on the other end who just makes a daily post,then ignores the replies…

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