Shortly after brilliantly comparing the U.S. government to Breaking Bad on Monday night, Stephen Colbert took a victory lap over to his interview table to chat with series creator Vince Gilligan about the finale — and to pry loose some insights into Walter White’s psyche.

Here’s part one of their talk, in which Gilligan shares his opinion on the worst thing Walter White ever did, and why he gave his main character the fate that was delivered during the final episode.

And here’s the second part of the interview, in which Gilligan compares the show’s final scene to that of John Wayne’s The Searchers (again) and offers some insight into just what was going through Walter White’s head during the series’ final hour. Also, Colbert sings Marty Robbins’s “El Paso.”