Out of all of the areas I have had the privilege of climbing in Virginia, I think Old Rag is my favorite publicly owned crag in the Stateóand the crag that shows the greatest number of quality climbs. I donít know if itís the scenic views or the hard routes that dot the granite walls covering this beautiful mountain that lead me to believe this, however, one thing cannot be argued: Old Rag is remote. Because of its remoteness, beta is hard to come by. This is why I am asking all of the members of RC.com that frequent this area to contribute their knowledge to the routes database. By doing this we could develop a more complete route database, which would allow others to have a greater time on the mountain. I have just updated the main page to give first time visitors a better idea of what to expect. Please feel free to submit all of your pics, favorite climbs and misc. beta concerning this wonderful area!!!

p.s. The routeís section of rc.com is not intended to stand in the place of a guidebook, but merely supplement it with more beta and routes that may not be included in a guidebook. This is why I recommend first time visitors to Old Rag not to visit the area blindlyÖ take a friend that is familiar with the area or Horstís guide.

I like the fact that there are quite a few crags at Old Rag that aren't mentioned in any guidebook - allows you to get experience at bushwhacking in, looking up, and trying out a line - very good to know how to do if you go exploring out in backcountry places elsewhere. And since the crags are, for the most part, a ropelength or less in size, the descent route is usually pretty easy to figure out: easier on the brain if you're worried about getting stuck in the middle of some blank face way up high (that can be done later, somewhere else, after you've gotten enough experience to deal with such a situation).

its looking like popularity is soaring at old rag - more people are getting out, taking pics, and posting up.

in light of the fact that the NPS is doing its rocky outcrop management plan (ROMP) to evaluate park usage of places like the stoney men and old rag by climbers and regular park users. I think we should attempt to stay invovled in the discussions as they evolve. as well as keeping access in mind when we visit.

I added a couple of the Dream Wall routes that weren't listed. I was going to add to the approach info for this wall, but don't know how, or don't have permission to do so.

I found that the best way to the Dream Wall was to start at the base of Scared Seamless, in the corridor at the base of the God Crag. Walk downslope for about 10 minutes, passing a large wall on the left hand side. The Dream Wall has a large summit block.

If you go too far, you'll end up with some difficult scrambling, and a wall with a prominent, left-leaning offsdet crack. It starts as a chimney, narrowing to thin fingers. This route is 10d, name unknown.

I agree w/ Virginiapine. The fact that Old Rag doesn't have a comprehensive guide adds to the adventure. Regardless of whether you boulder, plug gear, clip bolts, 5th class, or even top-rope you are bound to find something that suits your level. Without a guide, it makes you truly explore, and thats what its all about it!

Please don't take Horst's guide... that piece of trash is already spreading enough disinformation about other crags he never developed, visited, or contributed to, and where he does nothing to mitigate the impact caused by his collaborative rip-off with Falcon Press.

There is an old R&I guide available, created by people who put up most of the routes there and who still climb there from time to time... get yer beta from the source, not the other end of the horse...

And I agree... no guide is not an entirely bad thing... the challenge of routefinding keeps "tame" climbers at the main areas and adventurers seeking... the way it should be...

you my friend have a chip on your shoulder. I'm sorry he got a few things wrong about your pet crag but that guide is the best of what is out there. That old r and i guide blows if you don't know your way around.

I just added a bunch of updates which will hopefully show up soon. I would love to talk to other people that climb here. I have been climbing there for 5 years or so and love it.

I just looked at the editor tools again. I thought i had approved your sections, but i couldn't find them. So i found a way i could add the sections in. Let me know if the descriptions need to be altered. that is the info i had in my notes- but i've never been to Coffee and Cat walls.

Well, I don't know how much vitalization has really been going on in 2007 - though I note that one other person has been adding routes to the db (stirring controversy along the way).

Anyway, I've finally taken matters into my own hands and am now a route editor for Virginia, though for the time being my focus will be entirely on Old Rag, where I climb pretty much every weekend (and we've had remarkably nice weather right into July).

The ordering of the routes at the Reflector Oven and PATC Wall have now been fixed up, as well as some descriptions and directions, so that this db will be of more utility again in the aftermath of the new rc.com software coming online which muddled things here...

Thanks for all the work you have done. Old Rag climbing is definently under appreciated, especially amongst my partners. Although I head up there solo a couple times a year and anytime I can talk one of my partners into it, I've never braved it in the middle of the summer. I bet the bushwhacking is legendary.

Hi notapplicable, Thanks for the note. I've finished putting the Reflector Oven, PATC Wall, Summit Cliff, and Sunset Walls sections into order. This summer we've had quite a number of cool weekends in a row, all through June in fact. It's hot now by mid-day, but is still cool in the morning and if it happens to be a low humidity day then the hike in is really pleasant. Sometime soon I'll try to put an overview topo of the mountain online, and then begin adding in some other areas....

You know, an overview is a realy good idea given the topography of the crag (as opposed to the traditional cliff line) and I have always found that they help me orient although some people find them superfluous if not confusing.