Apple's Lame Response To Falling Behind Android In U.S.: Whatever, We're Bigger Worldwidehttp://www.businessinsider.com/apple-responds-to-android-passing-it-2010-5/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Thu, 22 Feb 2018 00:18:55 -0500Jay Yarowhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4beb0f4c7f8b9aed66c60400Erik PrinceWed, 12 May 2010 16:27:56 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4beb0f4c7f8b9aed66c60400
I'm not sure why news that Android based phones are outselling iPhone OS based ones. There is only one Apple handset. Nothing else runs this OS and it's only available on AT&T. In contrast, Android runs on half a dozen or more handsets on more carriers. So it's not surprising that Android is starting to outsell the iPhone. This is sort of a no-brainer. There is also the fact that we are at the end of the year long Apple refresh cycle, so a good number of people are already holding out for the next iteration long expected for mid June. Whereas Android has been ramping up over the last year or so with new handsets coming out every few months, it seems. Not really a good comparison, if you ask me.
Once the new iPhone is released you'll see a climb in sales again, but Android will almost certainly stay ahead over all. So what? It's not a zero sum game. One mobile OS doesn't have to lose for the other to win. They are both likely to be very successful for the foreseeable future.
Erikhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4beafb677f8b9abf499d0100Tom RossWed, 12 May 2010 15:03:03 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4beafb677f8b9abf499d0100
"Sure, surveys aren't perfect, but it's the best data available, no?"
I believe that's the real issue. Why can't Google announce proper sales data for Android, being so open and all?
Nokia, RIM, Apple, Palm, Microsoft all report quarterly sales of their platforms. AT&T tells us the number of activated iPhones every quarter. And all we're getting from Google is some hazy "now 60.000 devices per day" which could mean anything and nothing.
To fill that gap, the tech scene is pouncing on all kinds of secondary polls, surveys and confabulations by ChangeWave, ComScore or NPD, pretending those are the real deal. But they're not, just like opinion polls are not elections.
Right now, Google has an interest in appearing bigger then they are. If they were open and told us their real sales we wouldn't have to argue about this.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bea80227f8b9acc4b6d0b00tonycWed, 12 May 2010 06:17:06 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bea80227f8b9acc4b6d0b00
Apple's Fisher-Price device lock-down business model puts them in the box yet again. Sic semper tyrannus.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bea3bd07f8b9a032a910000JPWed, 12 May 2010 01:25:36 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4bea3bd07f8b9a032a910000
Hey Y'all Amazon has Motorola Backflips today for one cent with contract!
There's your Android adoption. Free or cheap phones on all 4 major carriers running how many versions of Android? 4? Owners waiting months for carriers to upgrade software for the umpteen hardware configurations out there. The "flagship" Nexus One boasting sales in the couple hundred thousand range. Droid does sell for $50 on Amazon with contract. A marketplace that can give away apps, but not really manage to sell many?
I'm sure no one at Apple is sleeping tonight. And Job's is surely crying in a corner over not adopting this third world bazaar/ flea market approach that is the hallmark of Android.
It's about profit, not adoption percentage. Android hasn't dented Apple yet. And Verizon? Nope they passed on the iPhone when they were offered it first. Five American Dollars says both Sprint and T-Mobile have iPhones before Verizon does.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9d4847f8b9a951bfd0300JimTue, 11 May 2010 18:04:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9d4847f8b9a951bfd0300
Use an iPhone and then try an Android... night and day! My buddy just got the new Verizon Incredible and it works like crap... Way to sensitive and response in jittery as hell! Apple has nothing to be concerned about... iPhone is a precession tool and the Android is a child's toy!
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-responds-to-android-passing-it-2010-5#comment-4be9d4057f8b9a795dbe0500#ixzz0nf2pgnqDhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9d4057f8b9a795dbe0500JimTue, 11 May 2010 18:02:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9d4057f8b9a795dbe0500
Use an iPhone and then try an Android... night and day! My buddy just got the new Verizon Incredible and it works like crap... Way to sensitive and response in jittery as hell! Apple has nothing to be concerned about... iPhone is a precession tool and the Android is a child's toy!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9c81b7f8b9aaa34360000LukeTue, 11 May 2010 17:11:55 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9c81b7f8b9aaa34360000
I have verizon and I am not crazy about them. Had droid and BB and I am waiting for new iPhone. The iPhone is a much superior product and it can not be argued. Cant wait to be done with these crappy verizon phones.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9c3c07f8b9a9a547c0000Joe in MiamiTue, 11 May 2010 16:53:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9c3c07f8b9a9a547c0000
Okay lets suppose a Verizon phone is in the works. Firstly, we would need to see the following:
1. a surge in Apple job postings for CDMA engineers,
2. Concurrent voice/data on Verizon's network,
3. a Foxcomm leak that they are building a CDMA phone,
4. A Gizmodo tear down showing a CDMA chipset,
5. a willingness for Verizon to sell phones that are not crippled.
Until those conditions exist, forget about an iPhone at Verizon.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9bd017f8b9adf16110600LOL (orig)Tue, 11 May 2010 16:24:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9bd017f8b9adf16110600
"Android's problem is that they get killed in direct competition with the iPhone on the same carrier -- how many Androids have sold on AT&T?"
Is this an attempt at humor?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b9a27f8b9ae3313a0000PeteTue, 11 May 2010 16:10:09 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b9a27f8b9ae3313a0000
I agree with you. How easy do you suppose it will be to entice Apple to have a 2 for 1 sales?
Andriod-based phone manufacturers are hoping a critical mass will kick start developer support, which is what they really need to match Apple's key advantages.
I am still waiting to see a bunch of developers making loads of money developing for Android. And to those idealists who see it beneath themselves to develop for money I must say their efforts will only enrich the likes of HTC, Motorola, Verizon, and ultimately Google when customers get bombarded with ads.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b9467f8b9a8f4c2d0100Martin EdicTue, 11 May 2010 16:08:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b9467f8b9a8f4c2d0100
While Apple makes a ton of money with iPhone OS/iPhone, Google makes none with Android. Market share is not measured by total users in a business scenario, it is measured by total share of revenues generated by all phone OS hardware combos. This study is not meaningful in a business context yet bloggers are going nuts over it.
And BTW, I use Android and I think it sucks. But I am a Verizon customerhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b4677f8b9add15430100XianTue, 11 May 2010 15:47:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b4677f8b9add15430100
Jay,
Because you're not very good at your job, let me do a little of it for you: Verizon has BOGOs on smartphones, don't they? Thought so. Amazon sells 'em for one penny (backflip). Apple isn't in the bargain-basement phone market are they?
In a similar story in turns out that Walmart is doing a higher volume business than Tiffany. Better get on that one, dude.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b00f7f8b9aaa14e70500PaulTue, 11 May 2010 15:29:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9b00f7f8b9aaa14e70500
Before everybody goes nuts on me—yes, Microsoft makes tons of money on Windows. I should have said that Apple makes larger profits than most of the PC hardware makers.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9af697f8b9ab72f670000paulTue, 11 May 2010 15:26:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9af697f8b9ab72f670000
Of course market share matters. I never said it didn't. But profits also matter. I would bet that Apple would much rather make large profits (like they have now) with 30-35% share of a market where 4 or 5 competitors carve up the the bottom 2/3 of the market, than to have 60% of the market with very low margins.
Everyone seems to think that the cell phone market is going to look like the PC software market (where Apple "lost' even though it makes most of the profit) or the MP3 player market where Apple has 70% (and makes most of the profit). While it would be great for Apple if they could capture the smartphone market the way they did the MP3 player market (70+%), the odds are stacked way against it, and not because Apple is doing anything wrong. A billion+ cellphones were being sold per year when Apple entered the market—far different than the iPod.
I'm all for selling the iPhone through Verizon, but nobody should be wetting their pants right now because Apple isn't . The nascent iPad/tablet market complicates matters for Apple and the iPod Touch makes the iPhone OS more compelling for developers. Remember that Verizon turned down Apple before Apple turned to AT&T. I suspect whatever negotiations may be going on are not as simple as some of us would like to believe. There is still plenty of time.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9ae1a7f8b9a5a2fb10100Ted T.Tue, 11 May 2010 15:20:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9ae1a7f8b9a5a2fb10100
I think Apple is definitely showing signs of taking Android seriously -- thus I doubt they'll stay AT&T exclusive through 2012.
Android's problem is that they get killed in direct competition with the iPhone on the same carrier -- how many Androids have sold on AT&T? So the moment the iPhone hits VZW and T-Mobile Android's share will plummet.
In any event, Apple's chief problem right now is building iPads fast enough to meet demand. If they manage that, everything else is gravy.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9acc87f8b9a7242140000OlternautTue, 11 May 2010 15:15:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9acc87f8b9a7242140000
I don't think Apple can afford to wait till Verizon's LTE network is running in a significant number of markets.
Because of the existence of android, Apple will end up going with a multi-carrier model in the U.S. before they planned to.
May 19th's android "froyo" debut is going to be very very interesting if it turns out to be impressive.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9abc27f8b9a473f8c0400NeoFightTue, 11 May 2010 15:10:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9abc27f8b9a473f8c0400
Just give it a few months.... there will be lines of people forming around the world in front of every Apple store for the *NEW* "Gizmodo" version..
And the marketshare will shift once again to Apple's favor.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9ab467f8b9a3414a70100OlternautTue, 11 May 2010 15:08:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9ab467f8b9a3414a70100
I too am totally surprised that Apple actually responded to this.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a7bc7f8b9a53131c0200Frank CastleTue, 11 May 2010 14:53:48 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a7bc7f8b9a53131c0200
This is not going to happen unless the terms are in Apple's favour. Do you think they will so easily forgo the profit being earned with At&t? What would VZW stipend to them? Will they want reveue sharing, AppStore, Branding, Wifi calling etc?
I agree Apple at some point needs to move cross carrier but I doubt you'll see it until iPhone sales drop significantly.
I put as much weight on this survey as any of the others that seem to generate comments. The market is large and expanded, world-wide adoption is a big part of it. While the states are lucrative you seem how these sales are adding to RIM's bottom line.
2012 will be right around when LTE will have a decent global footprint though ...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a6997f8b9a9f11690d00Constable OdoTue, 11 May 2010 14:48:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a6997f8b9a9f11690d00
Apple has no control over who buys Android smartphones. Apple should just stick to whatever plan they have and meet their own expected numbers. If they can sell more smartphones every quarter at high prices, they'll end up with plenty of money in the bank which will be far more than Google's ZERO revenue from Android.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a5f17f8b9a25399d0500tim.hobbesTue, 11 May 2010 14:46:09 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a5f17f8b9a25399d0500
I can confirm that this is amazing news for the supporters of Android.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a5b17f8b9ae92d4e0100tim.hobbesTue, 11 May 2010 14:45:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a5b17f8b9ae92d4e0100
Or they are happy, or they are scared. From their attitude related to Android, dropping press releases right after *every* Android-related announcements in the past six months, I think they know this is a hard fight and decided to answer immediately to every negative news.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a4657f8b9aae2d0f0000tim.hobbesTue, 11 May 2010 14:39:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a4657f8b9aae2d0f0000
Yay!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a2eb7f8b9a6b2d740000Dom ChaseTue, 11 May 2010 14:33:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a2eb7f8b9a6b2d740000
the comments here are like a carbon copy from yesterday's iphone android article. this is pretty silly, dont you think?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a2b27f8b9a8a2d060000jgTue, 11 May 2010 14:32:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a2b27f8b9a8a2d060000
word on the street...
all tim.hobbes comments are going into bleachers. no matter whathttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a22f7f8b9a9812150000Sammy the Walrus IVTue, 11 May 2010 14:30:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a22f7f8b9a9812150000
"Various analyses have shown that Apple's wholesale price for the iPhone would not go down by much (if at all) if it adopted a multi-carrier model in the U.S."
I would like to see these. Serious, I am curious what has been said on that. I thought apple said that is what happened in europe but I find it hard to believe. Would VZ really pay as much for the iPhone as ATT does?
And apple has gone on record saying we don't chase the cheap end of the market...that is exactly what many android phones are going after. You can get free android phones now a days.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a14a7f8b9a5a39000100RattyUKTue, 11 May 2010 14:26:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a14a7f8b9a5a39000100
In my reply to a comment that got kicked to the bleachers. Unlike the survey Apple actually know how many they have sold. For Apple to pass a comment shows that they are pretty damn happy with where they are.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a0bf7f8b9a9611870700tim.hobbesTue, 11 May 2010 14:23:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a0bf7f8b9a9611870700
"If you give an os away people will utilize it on their devices"
Yup. That was the plan! You can expect the Android numbers to get better and better.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a02d7f8b9af5115f0300RattyUKTue, 11 May 2010 14:21:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9a02d7f8b9af5115f0300
I am happy for you Tim. I think the important metric here is that Apple actually know how many they have sold whereas the data from NPD is from a survey. The fact that Apple have bothered to comment says a lot about where they think they are.
So party on dude in your wallless garden but when the figures actually come out I think you may be surprised. Remember that business is actually about making money and not market share. Google has proved one thing. If you give an os away people will utilize it on their devices.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99fe57f8b9a8611bc0500tim.hobbesTue, 11 May 2010 14:20:20 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99fe57f8b9a8611bc0500
The iPhone is not dead yet, AFAIK.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99fb67f8b9afc2bed0700Dan FrommerTue, 11 May 2010 14:19:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99fb67f8b9afc2bed0700
Really? I don't buy it.
Whenever Apple announces price cuts for the iPhone, all it talks about is how it wants EVERYONE to be able to buy it.
Apple is still making an incredible profit on the iPhone but it would make MUCH more profit if it were to sell the iPhone at Verizon and other carriers. Various analyses have shown that Apple's wholesale price for the iPhone would not go down by much (if at all) if it adopted a multi-carrier model in the U.S.
And yes, this is a race where market share DOES matter. First, because a competitor (Android) is coming on strong. Second, because there is a 2-year lock in period on contracts, so Apple isn't just losing someone to Android for a few months, for for a few years.
This is a platform land grab that Apple wants to win. They DO care about market share.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99f657f8b9aea32e20b00ryanhindingerTue, 11 May 2010 14:18:13 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99f657f8b9aea32e20b00
Breaking News! McDonald's sold more burgers this month than In'N'Out and Shake Shack combined! The McDonald's burger is the best burger EVER!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99f4d7f8b9a8c2ccc0200LOL (orig)Tue, 11 May 2010 14:17:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99f4d7f8b9a8c2ccc0200
"This is a very limited report on 150,000 US consumers"
Are you freaking kidding me? 150K people is a darn big survey.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99f267f8b9af02bf30600SloopTue, 11 May 2010 14:17:10 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99f267f8b9af02bf30600
Look at the original report: "NPD analyst Ross Rubin attributed the strong sales of RIM and Android phones to Verizon's buy-one-get-one deals."
Apple worried about people pushing out more units by GIVING them away?
Apple can easily boost sales by giving them out too! LOL. But unlike poor selling Android phones it doesn't have too.
And as for "U.S is still by far its most important market," , although not denying U.S is important it still only accounts for 30% or so of iPhone sales and Apple is getting more and more carriers overseas all the time. IPhone now largest selling smartphone in Japan, China now get wi fi version etc.
Not to mention people are waiting for the new iPhone 4G (or HD).
Apple's ho hum 'whatever' response is on the mark.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99e417f8b9a2f11030600paulTue, 11 May 2010 14:13:21 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99e417f8b9a2f11030600
The only "poking" Apple was doing was poking fun at blog sites like SAI and the Loop for making way too big a deal about this. And the only thing "lame" is SAI's attempt to prove that Apple is in big trouble because it still doesn't sell the iPhone through Verizon.
Apple doesn't need to "win' the smartphone war if by winning you mean gaining more than 50% of the smartphone market. It ain't ever gonna happen. Apple just needs a large segment of the market—somewhere between 20 to 40 percent—with the rest carved up between RIM, Android, Nokia, WebOS, Windows Phone7, etc. Of course, Apple's market share will be the segment where 80% of the profits will be made.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99bd47f8b9aad2bb60400Fred BTue, 11 May 2010 14:03:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99bd47f8b9aad2bb60400
Dan, I am also surprised that they acknowledged the NPD survey. This is definitely amazing news for the supporters of Android.
I am also for Verizon picking up the iPhone. I don't understand why this wouldn't be good for consumers. The only party that would not benefit from this arrangement would be AT&T.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99b2e7f8b9afe2b200000KenCTue, 11 May 2010 14:00:14 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99b2e7f8b9afe2b200000
How many times are you going to beat this dead horse?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99a947f8b9ab52a200a00Joe in MiamiTue, 11 May 2010 13:57:39 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99a947f8b9ab52a200a00
Jay, your iPhone/Verizon campaign is in full swing.
It's only a survey. Let's see the activation numbers. I'm sure there is some capitulation element - people giving up on waiting for a CDMA iPhone and just settling for an android. Add to that the folks that are expecting a new iPhone introduction and are holding back any purchases.
Apple may hold tight with AT&T until 2012. That gives you plenty of time to perfect the message. Best of luck with that.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99a1f7f8b9ad633d60200tim.hobbesTue, 11 May 2010 13:55:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be99a1f7f8b9ad633d60200
I AM SO HAPPY!!!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be999d57f8b9a822f440900FredZTue, 11 May 2010 13:54:29 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be999d57f8b9a822f440900
Third place is not so bad. I few more screens will break and all will be well with iPhone sales.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be998ed7f8b9ab332570200Dan FrommerTue, 11 May 2010 13:50:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be998ed7f8b9ab332570200
Very surprised Apple commented at all, let alone poked at the methodology that a respected market research firm uses. Sure, surveys aren't perfect, but it's the best data available, no? NPD seems like it's been pretty reliable in the past, no?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9971e7f8b9a07322d0000Sammy the Walrus IVTue, 11 May 2010 13:42:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4be9971e7f8b9a07322d0000
i disagree with you guys on the whole VZ thing.
You are making it sound like VZ is CODE RED urgent. its all about business gentlemen.
and what is up with mocking apple PR? They said the survey (yes survey) is limited (which is it) and does not show the true story (which is true).
some hidden agenda here I am missing? anti-iPad hatred or something?