The smoking man has already gotten to them Todd and the government has done a great job of making even reporting a sighting seem like an exercise only to be revealed to a therapist .500 tears from now we will be observing beings on other planets as easily as we now drive to circle K , so I just am baffled by the difficulty that some have believing it isn't already happening to us , hey it happened on star trek. Even the bible has dozens of accounts of interaction.Bigfoot said so lol , but really , just because you haven't seen it personally doesn't mean it's not true or realI mean , have you ever seen a Higgs BosonEither way Mr. Breda , you'll never change their mind , it'll take way more.Try not to take it personally.

It's going to be difficult to make this post without getting political. I'll do my best to avoid polarizing political commentary, particularly with regard to the sitting President, but it's going to be difficult as what I would like to talk about pertains both to the original topic, but also a broader topic of disinformation campaigns waged by the global intelligence community. Here goes...

Do I believe credible evidence of extraterrestrial life exists? I don't know for sure but my gut says yes. If so, it's locked away in an underground military hangar or located in a CIA SCIF.

A good friend of mine once worked on a top secret program as a USAF officer in the US Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconaissance Agency. While the details of his program were rightly never shared with me, he mentioned once that he made a joke akin to saying "so when do I learn about little green men and flying saucers?", to which his commanding officer sternly replied with a request to never speak of it again and that he had not been "briefed on that program". Sure, it's a purely anecdotal account, unverifiable, coming straight from the mouth of a guy who could be lying, but I believe he was being truthful.

I believe without an iota of doubt in my mind that life exists elsewhere in the universe. There is simply nothing so unique about our solar system such that it's one of a kind in the many billions upon billions of stars and galaxies. The same physical constructs that fostered the genesis of our species are present elsewhere in the universe.

Do I believe there is a coordinated effort to leak information of extraterrestrial life to the public? No, I don't. I believe that most, if not all of the testimony from former NASA, military personnel and intelligence officers is strategic disinformation cooked up to discredit investigators or distract the public from other stories. Such disinformation programs have seen widespread use in counterintelligence programs (a.k.a. COINTELPRO).

I believe the "fake news" narrative being espoused by media outlets since a few weeks prior to the election was started to bury a very specific topic that was starting to widely trend across a multitude of internet media platforms. Due to the polarizing nature of the topic I won't mention it here (PM me if you are curious), but very clear evidence exists to suggest that the fake news narrative was the result of a counterintelligence effort meant to bury and/or discredit this topic. Since mid-October, I've witnessed a near Orwellian effort to suppress discussion and perpetuation of this topic. People actively investigating it have been subject to intimidation and there are a couple rumored to have been killed over it. It's become apparent that the likes of Google, Amazon/AWS, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, and nearly all Western MSM news outlets, are functioning organs of the intelligence apparatus. The CIA has had a close working relationship with media companies for years, including the MSM news. Read up on Operation Mockingbird, no doubt this is a program that has continued to this day.

Because the government and intelligence community have absolutely nothing to gain through disseminating information about extraterrestrial life (religion is a powerful, reliable means of exercising sociopolitical control), and because the MSM is compromised by the global intelligence community (particularly the CIA), you can trust literally nothing coming from the MSM on this matter. Nothing whatsoever. When CIA assets at high levels in news organizations wield massive influence over the MSM news messaging and narratives, you are only going to hear what "they" want you to hear. By divulging fantastical stories about "Greys" and "little green men", you are most likely being distracted from a real story developing somewhere else.

Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

SmokinHawk wrote:It's going to be difficult to make this post without getting political. I'll do my best to avoid polarizing political commentary, particularly with regard to the sitting President, but it's going to be difficult as what I would like to talk about pertains both to the original topic, but also a broader topic of disinformation campaigns waged by the global intelligence community. Here goes...

Do I believe credible evidence of extraterrestrial life exists? I don't know for sure but my gut says yes. If so, it's locked away in an underground military hangar or located in a CIA SCIF.

A good friend of mine once worked on a top secret program as a USAF officer in the US Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconaissance Agency. While the details of his program were rightly never shared with me, he mentioned once that he made a joke akin to saying "so when do I learn about little green men and flying saucers?", to which his commanding officer sternly replied with a request to never speak of it again and that he had not been "briefed on that program". Sure, it's a purely anecdotal account, unverifiable, coming straight from the mouth of a guy who could be lying, but I believe he was being truthful.

I believe without an iota of doubt in my mind that life exists elsewhere in the universe. There is simply nothing so unique about our solar system such that it's one of a kind in the many billions upon billions of stars and galaxies. The same physical constructs that fostered the genesis of our species are present elsewhere in the universe.

Do I believe there is a coordinated effort to leak information of extraterrestrial life to the public? No, I don't. I believe that most, if not all of the testimony from former NASA, military personnel and intelligence officers is strategic disinformation cooked up to discredit investigators or distract the public from other stories. Such disinformation programs have seen widespread use in counterintelligence programs (a.k.a. COINTELPRO).

I believe the "fake news" narrative being espoused by media outlets since a few weeks prior to the election was started to bury a very specific topic that was starting to widely trend across a multitude of internet media platforms. Due to the polarizing nature of the topic I won't mention it here (PM me if you are curious), but very clear evidence exists to suggest that the fake news narrative was the result of a counterintelligence effort meant to bury and/or discredit this topic. Since mid-October, I've witnessed a near Orwellian effort to suppress discussion and perpetuation of this topic. People actively investigating it have been subject to intimidation and there are a couple rumored to have been killed over it. It's become apparent that the likes of Google, Amazon/AWS, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, and nearly all Western MSM news outlets, are functioning organs of the intelligence apparatus. The CIA has had a close working relationship with media companies for years, including the MSM news. Read up on Operation Mockingbird, no doubt this is a program that has continued to this day.

Because the government and intelligence community have absolutely nothing to gain through disseminating information about extraterrestrial life (religion is a powerful, reliable means of exercising sociopolitical control), and because the MSM is compromised by the global intelligence community (particularly the CIA), you can trust literally nothing coming from the MSM on this matter. Nothing whatsoever. When CIA assets at high levels in news organizations wield massive influence over the MSM news messaging and narratives, you are only going to hear what "they" want you to hear. By divulging fantastical stories about "Greys" and "little green men", you are most likely being distracted from a real story developing somewhere else.

Nice post and thank you for your hard work to keep it about communication.

Additionally the old Cliché comes true, if you tell a lie often enough and long enough people will start thinking it's the truth until it becomes so.

To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!! Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. Member of the 38 club.

Most people overlook a basic element about the possibility of alien life.

That is, we've all been raised on Sci-Fi movies and novels and notions for years about "ancient alien cultures".

Elder races.Ancient beings.

blah blah blah

If life is out there, it must be more advanced than us.

Here is a basic truth: 99% of the life supporting planets that will ever exist in this universe have yet to be born.

In order to have the heavy elements to create a world like ours, one with a molten core that creates an electromagnetic field that keeps us all from frying like little ants, we need supernovas.

Bing Bang 13.8 billion years agoPopulation III stars -- about 10 billion years agoOur galaxy begins to form -- about 9 billion years agoSupernovas creating heavy elements in the milky way -- about 7 billion years agoFormation of our solar system -- about 5 billion years agoEarly life on earth -- 3.5 billion years ago

Do you see the issue now? There's just not a lot of room to get a jump on us, speaking in stellar terms. Not in this galaxy. Big Bang ---> Supernovas ----> worlds form in life zones with heavy elements ---> world does not get wiped out of existence by an asteroid strike ----> life evolves far enough for space travel ----> civilization that is rapidly evolving figures out a way to create FTL before it murders itself.

We are, quite frankly, one of the first chances in the history of the universe to be in this situation. There really isn't a lot of space out there for a group of aliens to be more advanced than us.

Fact is, most alien life in this particular galaxy is going to be way behind us. Solid astronomy and statistics indicate that we are probably the oldest sentient race in this galaxy. I pity the poor bastards who are out there right now in the early stages of evolution, because chances are -- before they start using stone tools and building fires, we're going to land on their damn world and start taking crap.

The_Z_Man wrote:Most people overlook a basic element about the possibility of alien life.

That is, we've all been raised on Sci-Fi movies and novels and notions for years about "ancient alien cultures".

Elder races.Ancient beings.

blah blah blah

If life is out there, it must be more advanced than us.

Here is a basic truth: 99% of the life supporting planets that will ever exist in this universe have yet to be born.

In order to have the heavy elements to create a world like ours, one with a molten core that creates an electromagnetic field that keeps us all from frying like little ants, we need supernovas.

Bing Bang 13.8 billion years agoPopulation III stars -- about 10 billion years agoOur galaxy begins to form -- about 9 billion years agoSupernovas creating heavy elements in the milky way -- about 7 billion years agoFormation of our solar system -- about 5 billion years agoEarly life on earth -- 3.5 billion years ago

Do you see the issue now? There's just not a lot of room to get a jump on us, speaking in stellar terms. Not in this galaxy. Big Bang ---> Supernovas ----> worlds form in life zones with heavy elements ---> world does not get wiped out of existence by an asteroid strike ----> life evolves far enough for space travel ----> civilization that is rapidly evolving figures out a way to create FTL before it murders itself.

We are, quite frankly, one of the first chances in the history of the universe to be in this situation. There really isn't a lot of space out there for a group of aliens to be more advanced than us.

Fact is, most alien life in this particular galaxy is going to be way behind us. Solid astronomy and statistics indicate that we are probably the oldest sentient race in this galaxy. I pity the poor bastards who are out there right now in the early stages of evolution, because chances are -- before they start using stone tools and building fires, we're going to land on their damn world and start taking crap.

You only know what you have been taught. Keep that in mind, you, I and all others only know what we have been taught or exposed to. I knew people that I would trust with my life that swear they have seen something along the lines of bigfoot and know for a fact a child hoods friends dad was a volunteer fireman in Roswell during the "incident in question" and have heard him talk about what they found before the military was onsite. We are not alone in the universe as the only living intelligent (debatable on this planet) life form at this time.

irocdave wrote:You only know what you have been taught. Keep that in mind, you, I and all others only know what we have been taught or exposed to. I knew people that I would trust with my life that swear they have seen something along the lines of bigfoot and know for a fact a child hoods friends dad was a volunteer fireman in Roswell during the "incident in question" and have heard him talk about what they found before the military was onsite. We are not alone in the universe as the only living intelligent (debatable on this planet) life form at this time.

My great uncle, Ken Hendrickson, was part of the project Blue Book team. He was a film analyst for the military. Before that (in the 1950's) he worked in military intelligence.

I'd ask him about UFO's as a kid, and he'd say: "Reels and reels and reels of bullshit." It sorta made an impression.

irocdave wrote:You only know what you have been taught. Keep that in mind, you, I and all others only know what we have been taught or exposed to. I knew people that I would trust with my life that swear they have seen something along the lines of bigfoot and know for a fact a child hoods friends dad was a volunteer fireman in Roswell during the "incident in question" and have heard him talk about what they found before the military was onsite. We are not alone in the universe as the only living intelligent (debatable on this planet) life form at this time.

My great uncle, Ken Hendrickson, was part of the project Blue Book team. He was a film analyst for the military. Before that (in the 1950's) he worked in military intelligence.

I'd ask him about UFO's as a kid, and he'd say: "Reels and reels and reels of bullshit." It sorta made an impression.

All due respect but Project Blue Book is well known to most folks these days to be nothing more than a PR/propaganda campaign to dismiss UFO's as nothing more than misidentified phenomena i.e.; the planet Venus, swamp gas, et al.

Keep in mind, everything important in the military is compartmentalized. So in that breath, your great uncle Ken was merely a good soldier, knowing all he knew, nothing more nothing less unless he had a Need To Know clearance.

"Shaquem Griffin tells ESPN after he got drafted by Seattle; 'I can't breathe.' That's the only time you'll hear him say he can't do something." - Dan Wetzel via Twitter.

Largent80 wrote:Smokin makes a triumphant return with an incredible post. Yeah, we used to pull each others hair out but we got no hair left so I admire the guy and I admire this post.

I've seen a UFO, pretty close up in daylight with 4 American fighter jets after it so it is a subject I follow closely.

Thanks man, it's good to be back. We used to have some pretty heated exchanges back in the day, didn't we? Water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned.

You're right, though. I have no hair left. My daughter isn't a year old yet and is already walking. She gets in to everything.

Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

SmokinHawk wrote:Because the government and intelligence community have absolutely nothing to gain through disseminating information about extraterrestrial life....

Excellent post, great to see you back around these parts.

I agree with pretty much everything you say on the topic. My one area I would respectfully challenge is your quote above. While I do believe DISinformation campaigns are the lifeblood of how the military/government chooses to battle the continuous challenges from the public regarding this phenomena, I strongly feel there has been an extremely subtle and slow dissemination propoganda process going on since at least the late 1940's. Primarily because I believe that they don't hold the ultimate card in deciding if and when an advanced non-human intelligence chooses when, how and where to make their presence indisputable.

So to me, the best way to prepare a less-evolved species for phenomena that will shatter their world views is to allow it to enter in subconsciously, and over a long period of time which I believe has been driven primarily by the vehicle of media and entertainment.

It won't stop every bridge jumper, tin-foil hat wearer and The End Is Here'ers, but it could prove to be a most worthy long-term campaign to keep society from going Full Anarchy.

"Shaquem Griffin tells ESPN after he got drafted by Seattle; 'I can't breathe.' That's the only time you'll hear him say he can't do something." - Dan Wetzel via Twitter.

SmokinHawk wrote:Because the government and intelligence community have absolutely nothing to gain through disseminating information about extraterrestrial life....

Excellent post, great to see you back around these parts.

I agree with pretty much everything you say on the topic. My one area I would respectfully challenge is your quote above. While I do believe DISinformation campaigns are the lifeblood of how the military/government chooses to battle the continuous challenges from the public regarding this phenomena, I strongly feel there has been an extremely subtle and slow dissemination propoganda process going on since at least the late 1940's. Primarily because I believe that they don't hold the ultimate card in deciding if and when an advanced non-human intelligence chooses when, how and where to make their presence indisputable.

So to me, the best way to prepare a less-evolved species for phenomena that will shatter their world views is to allow it to enter in subconsciously, and over a long period of time which I believe has been driven primarily by the vehicle of media and entertainment.

It won't stop every bridge jumper, tin-foil hat wearer and The End Is Here'ers, but it could prove to be a most worthy long-term campaign to keep society from going Full Anarchy.

If that's their goal, judging by the current state of society, I doubt we'll be ready before the end of your life expectancy.

I believe the chances are greater that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe than to the contrary. However, the problem I have about the cover-up angle is the premise that the government has been able to keep it quiet for 3/4ths of a century, now.

The same government that can barely pass a sensible law, can't keep the fact that we eavesdrop on people's email & phone calls quiet, etc. Honestly, it's a bigger stretch to think that the government could keep this secret for so many years than it is to believe that intelligent extraterrestrial life exists.

I still have yet to see anyone explain how it hasn't been blown wide open after so many years if the government really is covering it up. The government is just not that good.

RolandDeschain wrote:I believe the chances are greater that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe than to the contrary. However, the problem I have about the cover-up angle is the premise that the government has been able to keep it quiet for 3/4ths of a century, now.

The same government that can barely pass a sensible law, can't keep the fact that we eavesdrop on people's email & phone calls quiet, etc. Honestly, it's a bigger stretch to think that the government could keep this secret for so many years than it is to believe that intelligent extraterrestrial life exists.

I still have yet to see anyone explain how it hasn't been blown wide open after so many years if the government really is covering it up. The government is just not that good.

Good points, which prompts another question: why is it always the U.S. government involved with everything? It's a big planet, lots of places for an alien to visit. Our government can barely keep secrets. What of all the other governments in the world? They are in on the conspiracy as well? Or do the aliens love America so much that they only come to our country to study/probe?

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."---LP Hartley

Trenchbroom wrote:Good points, which prompts another question: why is it always the U.S. government involved with everything? It's a big planet, lots of places for an alien to visit. Our government can barely keep secrets. What of all the other governments in the world? They are in on the conspiracy as well? Or do the aliens love America so much that they only come to our country to study/probe?

Trenchbroom wrote:Good points, which prompts another question: why is it always the U.S. government involved with everything? It's a big planet, lots of places for an alien to visit. Our government can barely keep secrets. What of all the other governments in the world? They are in on the conspiracy as well? Or do the aliens love America so much that they only come to our country to study/probe?

Aliens be all like: 'Murica!!!

Well, since the advent of television and worldwide media -- alien visits to other countries across the world have skyrocketed, so apparently they're all over these days... Mere coincidence?

RolandDeschain wrote:I believe the chances are greater that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe than to the contrary. However, the problem I have about the cover-up angle is the premise that the government has been able to keep it quiet for 3/4ths of a century, now.

The same government that can barely pass a sensible law, can't keep the fact that we eavesdrop on people's email & phone calls quiet, etc. Honestly, it's a bigger stretch to think that the government could keep this secret for so many years than it is to believe that intelligent extraterrestrial life exists.

I still have yet to see anyone explain how it hasn't been blown wide open after so many years if the government really is covering it up. The government is just not that good.

I don't know how many times I have to say this over the years but they HAVEN'T kept this a secret! My god man, just look at the literature that exists on this topic. No I don't mean National Enquirer, I mean factual, indisputable and quantifiable data that has been out in the open for DECADES.

Unless you don't consider radar reports, sworn testimony from everyone between high-ranking military officials to military pilots, generals, Chief of the Pentagon's Foreign Technology division, etc, etc, etc as proof the government does not keep this phenomenon secret than I have nothing else to say.

This whole debate reminds me of the "Invisible Ships" myth.

When Captain Cook/Columbus/Magellan (depending on the version of the story you're hearing) arrived at the coast of Australia/Cuba/South America, the native people completely ignored them, presumably because huge ships were so alien to their experience that "... their highly filtered perceptions couldn't register what was happening, and they literally failed to 'see' the ships."

I feel like our species collectively are the natives, and UFOs/ETs are those ships sitting right off shore right in plain sight but our current level of consciousness/reality world-view simply cannot except this obvious intrusion, despite the evidence provided.

"Shaquem Griffin tells ESPN after he got drafted by Seattle; 'I can't breathe.' That's the only time you'll hear him say he can't do something." - Dan Wetzel via Twitter.

Aros wrote:I don't know how many times I have to say this over the years but they HAVEN'T kept this a secret! My god man, just look at the literature that exists on this topic. No I don't mean National Enquirer, I mean factual, indisputable and quantifiable data that has been out in the open for DECADES.

Unless you don't consider radar reports, sworn testimony from everyone between high-ranking military officials to military pilots, generals, Chief of the Pentagon's Foreign Technology division, etc, etc, etc as proof the government does not keep this phenomenon secret than I have nothing else to say.

This whole debate reminds me of the "Invisible Ships" myth.

When Captain Cook/Columbus/Magellan (depending on the version of the story you're hearing) arrived at the coast of Australia/Cuba/South America, the native people completely ignored them, presumably because huge ships were so alien to their experience that "... their highly filtered perceptions couldn't register what was happening, and they literally failed to 'see' the ships."

I feel like our species collectively are the natives, and UFOs/ETs are those ships sitting right off shore right in plain sight but our current level of consciousness/reality world-view simply cannot except this obvious intrusion, despite the evidence provided.

Presidents get caught lying, I'm not much of a believer of taking ANYONE'S testimony about anything, to be honest. If you read some of the studies on the accuracy of people's memories and how their own opinions impact their memories of actual events they recall, you should come to the same conclusion, to be honest.

Let me put it this way. The foundation of science is being able to reproduce results. Tell me where I can go tomorrow, or next month, or next year and what I can do when I get there, to verify intelligent life from another planet.

Aros wrote:Yes one or two people's memories can certainly come into question. Dozens? Hundreds of high-ranking officials over the past several decades? Come on now.

You'd be surprised. Read up on studies regarding memory conformity. Hell, you're talking about "dozens" of people; most of the world believes in an afterlife and we don't have evidence of that, but a few dozen respectable people's claims are just automatically to be taken as true?

chris98251 wrote:Look in the mirror, we could be a planted species or a hybrid. prove we are not, the evolutionary scale says we should not really exist in our present form.

Sure, we could. However, we're talking about proof of extraterrestrial intelligent life. We're terrestrial intelligent life. Even if life on Earth originally was from an organism that arrived from elsewhere, that's not what we're talking about, here.

RolandDeschain wrote:This feels way too much like arguing with belief/religion. Lay out the steps where I can go verify intelligent extraterrestrial life myself, please.

Roland, you are not dealing with a quantifiable phenomenon. This transcends everything we currently know and can comprehend as a species. So why in the hell would you ever expect to be given the steps you require in your (i.e. "our") limited understanding of the nature of reality compared to non-humans that could be millions of years more advanced than us in order to verify their existence?

Forgive the analogy but to me it's as silly as saying a caterpillar wants to know the steps to verify the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

We are a baby species IMO, with a HUGE ego.

"Shaquem Griffin tells ESPN after he got drafted by Seattle; 'I can't breathe.' That's the only time you'll hear him say he can't do something." - Dan Wetzel via Twitter.

Err, the same logic applies to your choice to believe in them as much as it applies to my decision not to, except there's a severe lack of actual proof which kind of bodes well for my opinion on the matter...

I should have known better than to reply in this thread, lol. I'll exit stage left.

RolandDeschain wrote:Err, the same logic applies to your choice to believe in them as much as it applies to my decision not to, except there's a severe lack of actual proof which kind of bodes well for my opinion on the matter...

I should have known better than to reply in this thread, lol. I'll exit stage left.

Flip the argument, prove their isn't the odds there is and the historical evidence the huge land art etc depicts Alien life forms or our ancestors here long before known civilization, the Cave artwork as well adds to this. Coordination of architectural designs across the globe that align.

Lots of unexplained and circumstantial evidence that says there is versus the flat unless the egg is in my hand it don't exist.

To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!! Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. Member of the 38 club.

RolandDeschain wrote:Err, the same logic applies to your choice to believe in them as much as it applies to my decision not to, except there's a severe lack of actual proof which kind of bodes well for my opinion on the matter.

Err, Wrong.

That philosophy only applies IF I didn't have any corroborating collective data that supports my beliefs. From the 1940's to present day, the amount of testimony from thousands of human beings spanning all walks of life, class, religions, sex, cultures, income levels and age speaking about their experiences with UFOs and even ET's is nothing short of astounding.

Where's your matching data to support your belief NOT to believe?

That's right, there is none.

Until all you skeptics and debunkers can provide me with even HALF the data that exists that tells me no UFOs are non-human intelligence, well I will continue to feel completely complacent in my knowledge.

"Shaquem Griffin tells ESPN after he got drafted by Seattle; 'I can't breathe.' That's the only time you'll hear him say he can't do something." - Dan Wetzel via Twitter.