"The PFA does not represent players when they have broken the law and been convicted on non-football matters."- Gordon Taylor in 2009 following Marlon King's release after a prison sentence for sexual assault & ABH

Whilst in no way suggesting any of the shyte he's had to deal with is justified, I think the issues some of the more unreconstructed unionist Ulsterites have with Lennon go beyond his merely being Catholic.

The national side is managed by a Catholic in Michael O'Neill, after all.

I believe the spark was when he said he'd rather be playing for a united Ireland. Not that Lennon's a nice guy by any means but it's an opinion shared by the vast majority of Northern Irish Catholics and no one wants to play in front of fans that would send them death threats if they didn't keep their mouth shut about their political views. Certainly not when they're supposed to be their own fans.

More to the point, the Good Friday agreement gives everyone in the north the right to choose which country to belong to so the supposed "poaching" isn't even on a par with the ECB's South African fetish, which itself should be even less of an issue than it is.

Also Scotland had a perfectly good goal ruled out as well. Not a good night for the officials in that one though the Welsh have waited 35 years for revenge by the sound of it.

As for England, we know nothing apart from the fact they are handily placed in a weak group and should qualify. Could get messy once we are there though as there are so many better sides than us at present.

The Scottish reporter in R5 was admirably even handed when summarising the match yesterday. Started off with a detailed explanation of how outstanding Bale had been and finished off by referring the 1977 game when Scotland were given a penalty after their own Joe Jordan had handled the ball in the Welsh area. In between he also mentioned the disallowed goal that should have been given, but didn't let that dominate his report at all. An absolute gent.

As you say, a poor night for the officials. Looking at the highlights, Wales could easily have had penalties when Ramsey was tripped and later when one of their guys was wrestled to the ground to prevent a header from the edge of the six-yard box. Against that you had the two decisions in their favour viz the disallowed goal that would have put the Scots two ahead and the penalty that was given. All four were scandalously poor decisions, so it doesn't look as if basic competence is a prerequisite to referee these matches nowadays.

As for England, the most significant result of the night was probably Ukraine only drawing in Moldova. We should qualify, but w were really poor on Friday night. Not because we didn't score 10: but simply our inability to pass and control the ball with any measure of control.

Ramsay looked comically willing to go down for both of those shouts, I doubt very many refs would have given them even if there was contact. But I see your point. No one on the winning team ever moans about the decisions that went against them. They're all conveniently forgotten so that fans of the losers can cling to the "we wuz robbed" story.

I believe the spark was when he said he'd rather be playing for a united Ireland. Not that Lennon's a nice guy by any means but it's an opinion shared by the vast majority of Northern Irish Catholics and no one wants to play in front of fans that would send them death threats if they didn't keep their mouth shut about their political views. Certainly not when they're supposed to be their own fans.

What happened to Neil Lennon was of course wrong. However it is now over a decade ago, Northern Irelands support has moved on considerably since and in no way could the support be an excuse for choosing to play for the ROI instead.

More to the point, the Good Friday agreement gives everyone in the north the right to choose which country to belong to so the supposed "poaching" isn't even on a par with the ECB's South African fetish, which itself should be even less of an issue than it is.

It does and to be honest, if a player with nationalist leanings wants to play for the Republic then there isn't much could be done, I disagreed with the IFA appealing against it as I always thought they would loose out. However, it's amazing how many of these players were happy enough to play for NI at under-age level and only jumped ship when they realised later on how Irish they were without the Northern bit. That's where it has definitely become an issue of poaching and incredibly frustrating for the IFA and NI fans, so much time, money and effort put in to help develop and further players who then jump ship.

On two occassions NZ players have gone down with tears coming out of their eyes holding their legs. In my life I have never seen a rugby player do this. You either get knocked unconscious or you limp off the field and get replaced.
On both occassions the two players got up 30 seconds later and joined the fray and looked as right as rain.

In my opinion there should be an extra official called the bully who gets to punch you hard if you join the fray after rolling around on the grass.

Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed

I got great enjoyment in going to the game and shouting "WHY THE **** ISN'T THIS GAME BEING PLAYED AT THE BASIN?!>!?!?" to reasonably significant cheers from the sparse crowd

Proudly against the bring back Bennett movement since he is injury prone and won't last 5 days.

Haha so sick of hearing that one, one of my Dad's favourite rants. Yes, modern footballers don't score highly on archaic measures of masculinity. Stick to watching 30 meatheads repeatedly run into each other if it's not your thing.