My wife works at the local mall at a children's clothing store. One day, she came out to find a post-it stuck to the driver's side window. It read:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus or Hell! Repent or Perish."

Now, I realize that this may have been random, that the proselytizer probably put one on every car window, but I have a burning question for this individual: Who the fuck do you think you are?

I have held on to this post-it for quite some time (it happened about 3-4 months ago). My wife still asks me why I'm holding on to it. My answer has simply been "I don't know". Until now.

This passage is the epitomy of all that is wrong with religion and its believers. This is a true statement of the delusion that so many people buy into, which they do not waiver from or question.

This passage is the most insulting, derogatory, demeaning group of words that can ever be expressed by an individual. To think that this statement, in all its negativity, in all its evil, would come from someone who gives a shit about another human being's soul.

Although it is a long shot that the person who stuck this to my vehicle would actually be reading this post, I do have something to say to them: Fuck you and fuck your religion. You claim to be moral, you claim to be loving. I've seen more morality and love from a garden hose. If this is the way you want to try and 'convert' me, well, newsflash...it is this type of shit that pushes me FURTHER away from the bullshit you so easily fall for.

Shame on you for losing your humanity. I don't need your threats, I don't need your dogma, and I sure as shit don't need your imaginary friend in the sky. You want to go live a life of idiocy, that's your choice. Keep it to yourself!

(28-05-2010 10:15 AM)supermanlives1973 Wrote: My wife works at the local mall at a children's clothing store. One day, she came out to find a post-it stuck to the driver's side window. It read:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus or Hell! Repent or Perish."

<snip>

This passage is the epitomy of all that is wrong with religion and its believers. This is a true statement of the delusion that so many people buy into, which they do not waiver from or question.

This passage is the most insulting, derogatory, demeaning group of words that can ever be expressed by an individual. To think that this statement, in all its negativity, in all its evil, would come from someone who gives a shit about another human being's soul.

First point: I agree entirely. Though the last two sentences of that sticker aren't part of John 3, they aren't far from what it actually does say.

John 3:16-18, KJV Wrote:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The thing about this passage, though, is that the vast majority of believers know only John 3:16, not 3:17 or 3:18, and so think that the entirety of John 3 is a message of love and peace. While there are those who use it like the sticker on your window, others use it as a fancy way to say "God loves you!"
It really depends on the person in question. I'm sorry that you ran into one of those who meant it as a threat. But don't judge everyone who references this passage as a hateful person: the vast majority mean it in a non-threatening way.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it." - A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

"I have held on to this post-it for quite some time (it happened about 3-4 months ago). My wife still asks me why I'm holding on to it. My answer has simply been "I don't know". Until now...."

I think you're right, that is a powerful, iconic representation of the militant evangelist.

In addition, I think it also serves as a microcosm of the danger posed by any combination of church and state, and a warning to hold fast to our heritage of separation of church and state. The people in question cross the line between an individual's right to their beliefs and the liberty of all citizens.

Many people believe in their Christianity (or what-have-you) privately--they subscribe to the belief that God will judge, we don't have to; the belief that one should remove the beam from ones own eye before looking to the mote in God's; the belief that we should love our neighbors as we love ourselves (and, if I recall correctly, there is no conditional modifier involved in that quote); the belief that God sees every sparrow, that he provideth, that it is against His own commandment to take His name in vain.

Then there are people whose beliefs are more public, more civic-minded, --in short, megomaniacal. These folks have adopted blinders to the parts of the good book that would damn their antics as un-Christian, 'fighting' only for those passages that best expresss their mule-headed fixations on some issue involving medicine, sexual identity, politics, illegal aliens, and other fancy stuff (sez Puff--I crack myself up sometimes...)

These people are basically psychotic by choice--they have a self-confessed belief in invisible monsters and magicians; their impulses to be violent come from a voice in their head they call their conscience (And I know this is a misnomer on their parts, because I have an Atheist's conscience and it never tells me to do anything except to Be Nice and Try to Help and feel Bad whenever I Hurt someone.); and they don't believe they'll ever die--which is just silly on the face of it.

I say 'psychotic', they say 'religious', let's call the whole thing off--but with one VERY important caveat: whatever they are, they don't belong in positions of authority (except maybe in their own churches). If their religion, to an outside observer, is indistinguishable from psychosis then it follows that their perspective ought to be constrained to the private sector, i.e. friends and family (the traditional caretakers of the mentally ill).

In light of which, perhaps it is a good thing that these creatures are reduced to sticking flyers under windshields--in other parts of the world, they would be broadcast on radio and enforced by armed militia. God Bless the United States of America (whether he exists or not!)

I sympathize to the ignorant, I empathize with those who know they're wrong.

Yet when people so smugly preach their complete lunacy without a shred of humility I have to conclude that none of these people deserve my respect.

Religions are all so arrogant, so unbelievably close-minded they don't even consider a different frame of reference. I doubt any of them even realize that they aren't the center of the universe.

It's difficult to believe in a god, impossible to believe in a Personal God once you've scratched the surface of modern science. The God hypothesis is a profoundly simplified answer to the most seemingly complex phenomena, I fundamental understanding of evolutionary biology instantly rips apart any Personal God hypothesis, we are simply a higher level of consciousness to most animals, but not that much further ahead.

Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Exodus
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:14 And if a man borrow ought of his neighbour, and it be hurt, or die, the owner thereof being not with it, he shall surely make it good.

(02-06-2010 07:59 PM)Enrys Wrote: Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Exodus
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:14 And if a man borrow ought of his neighbour, and it be hurt, or die, the owner thereof being not with it, he shall surely make it good.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the reason for these quotes...are you proselytizing, or are you just stating the quotes each one of us has either seen or heard at one point or another?

(02-06-2010 07:59 PM)Enrys Wrote: Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Exodus
22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

22:14 And if a man borrow ought of his neighbour, and it be hurt, or die, the owner thereof being not with it, he shall surely make it good.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the reason for these quotes...are you proselytizing, or are you just stating the quotes each one of us has either seen or heard at one point or another?

Of course I'm proselytizing. That's my starter, then I get to how Jesus loves you with John 3:16, then if I don't get you with that, I go back to Exodus 22:20!