Archaist, you are correct when you wrote, "The Ashkenazi (European jews) are not the real descendants of the Hebrews.

In fact, they are a Khazar tribe converted to Judaism several centuries ago. So, it is quite obvious, their claim of the land is false."

Today's Jews are not indiginous to Palestine, either, countering all the arguments of their defenders. Today's Jews are from the ancient Habiru that migrated from India during the push of the Mongols west--taking with them their literature and lore.

The god Yahweh is nothing more than a demon tyrant from India, who was bloodthirsty and murderous. (See my book YAHWEH'S WIFE). They used this tribal deity to justify their attack on the Palestinians (Canaanites) who worshiped the agricultural goddess Asherah, and were a peaceful people. The "sword of Jesse" like the "rod of Abraham" was their way of silencing dissent: rape regardless if the soldier was raping a woman, man, or child. Ancient Judaism was built up around sex--leading to "dog priests" (quaedish) and other forms of sexuality. That is why the priests of the temple are forbidden in the Old Testament to let their testicles rest on the altar. (see my MOSES: THE MAKING OF MYTH AND LAW).

The Palestinians--yesterday's Philistines--are the true owners of the land usurped by today's nefarious Jews.

Israel will always be Zionist as long as the conservative religious element is in power--as they base their political support and the existence of their rogue state on a lie enhanced with history.

There is no legitimate claim to the land that the Israelis stole from the Palestinians, Egyptians, and Syrians in the 1940-1970 era of expansion. Even the "historical" antecedents were stolen from the Palestinian by the ancient Habiru from India who became the antique Hebrews.

No war is ever justified. That is why religion has been invented to justify the land lust of lords and barons of the bayonet.

Mark7567, wars are indeed, foolish. As is the entire concept of pilgrimage--a religious exercise established by merchants to capitalize on income from outside sources. Religion has always been the backbone of greed. Until religion is gone, no peace will exist.

As for your question, "Are you not suppost 'to love thy neighbour'. Does your religion teach you to hate or forgive." These quotes are actually from Babylonian texts--not New or Old Christian/Jewish texts. But then Christianity and Judaism are based on past religions that they have plagiarized and made appear to be unique.

Well the israelis tend to be Jews and the palestinians tend to be muslim, and the terrorist groups on either side claim to be fighting for their religion, and since Israel was founded as Jewish state, to escape persecution by Egyptians and whoever. This war does involve religion.

According your logic the Sept. 11th is justified too. The murder of thousand innocent civilian by the blood thirsty fundamental Islamic groups and suicide bombers is justified and is honest war according to your logic. The way these terrorists choose to fight is against the unarmed , and you justify it.

Israel fought all its wars that were enforced on, against Arab countries (Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Sudan and other Arab countries at 1948, Egypt at 1956, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq at 1967, Syria and Egypt at 1973, Lebanon including Fatahland and Syria at 1982, and wars of attrition along all its years of existence from all surrounding Arab countries). Israel won all these wars (including the Honest war started with no warning at Yom Kipur the most holly Jewish day , when all Israelis were fasting ). Israel won all theae wars against all the odds , against armies many timefold the Israeli Defence Forces in numbers and in air, ground and sea. When the Arabs understood that Israel is undefeated, they turned to the HONEST war against unarmed women, children, elder people in buses, restaurants and hotels. Yes we must admit they are very good in this sort of Honest war, like the Nazis.

Isrdeu,
I disagree with attacks targeting civilians. I believe they are counter-productive, and only discredit the perpetrators. This applies to 'collateral damage' as well. There is really no difference between destroying those who get in the way, than to target them directly - especially to the victims.

You wrote somewhere above: "The 'jews' are claiming the land that does not belong to them.
Let us be sincere."

I see that you are an American, how do you feel about the land you are living on. Are you an Indian (Apachi maybee according your name - Very quick with the arc = arc-haste)? If not , how do you feel living on a land which does not belong to you?.

Regarding these people you call 'jews' , they inhibited the Holly Land of Zion before more than 3000 thousands of years until they were exiled first by the Ashury people, returned and than exiled again by the Roman Empire . The evidence is written in the Bible and in digged out by archeologists anywhere in Israel from the sea to the Jordan river. On the contrary , I have been in your country and did not found even the slightest evidence that America belongs to the Americans, unless the slaughter of Indian tribes that once owned all America is an evidence.

There was a small Jewish community that never left the Holly Land and survived all the prosecutions of the foreginers that invaded their land. When the massive immegration of Jews started at the middle and the end of the 19th century to Israel, they settled on land that was bought by money from the owners at that time (Turkes and Arabs). You can find it in the Tabu books in Turkey, and in Britain. Let me see at least one Tabu subscript of land bought from an Indian native by the owners of lands in the USA.

You wrote somewhere above: "The 'jews' are claiming the land that does not belong to them.Let us be sincere."

I see that you are an American, how do you feel about the land you are living on. Are you an Indian (Apachi maybee according your name - Very quick with the arc = arc-haste)? If not , how do you feel living on a land which does not belong to you?.

Regarding these people you call 'jews' , they inhibited the Holly Land of Zion before more than 3000 thousands of years until they were exiled first by the Ashury people, returned and than exiled again by the Roman Empire . The evidence is written in the Bible and in digged out by archeologists anywhere in Israel from the sea to the Jordan river. On the contrary , I have been in your country and did not found even the slightest evidence that America belongs to the Americans, unless the slaughter of Indian tribes that once owned all America is an evidence.

There was a small Jewish community that never left the Holly Land and survived all the prosecutions of the foreginers that invaded their land. When the massive immegration of Jews started at the middle and the end of the 19th century to Israel, they settled on land that was bought by money from the owners at that time (Turkes and Arabs). You can find it in the Tabu books in Turkey, and in Britain. Let me see at least one Tabu subscript of land bought from an Indian native by the owners of lands in the USA.

Yes, let us be sincere!!!

Originally posted by Archaist Yes, the war is based on religion,

but there IS true history, and such sciences as the anthropology or archeologyare there to revive it.

The 'jews' are claiming the land that does not belong to them.Let us be sincere.

Archaist, you asked, "What does it have to do with church or religion?" Unfortunately religion and churches have written much of the history of the world and laid the foundation for catastrophic wars and exceptional cruelty. This began with the bishop of Caesarea, Eusebius, in the fourth century, and all medieval history was composed by monks and prelates until the 12th century as the church had a monopoly on writing--as writing was seen as the handiwork of a god.

You wrote, also, "We are speaking of the true history. It has nothing to do with the religion." This is not exactly true. The entire crusades is religious in intent and record. This is the corpus of the Monumenta Germaniae Historica, the primary source in the western world for its atrocities. These are buttressed by the various Arabic writings, most written by Imans and other Moslem clerics.

Religion can be a good thing if it comforts the individual. If it controls and suffocates the individual it is always bad--and the avenue for war as despots use religion to justify their intent. It is for this reason each nation at war or preparing for war, always claims "God is with Use" and "God is on our side." This mythology even exists at football games in the USA where each team prays to its god for victory--and when one team loses, they lament that god disserted them.

Mark, youwrote, "Well the israelis tend to be Jews and the palestinians tend to be muslim, and the terrorist groups on either side claim to be fighting for their religion, and since Israel was founded as Jewish state, to escape persecution by Egyptians and whoever. This war does involve religion."

Historically the Egyptians never persecuted the Jews. There is no record--outside of the Judaeo-Christian bibles--that the Jews were ever in Egypt. This myth has even been debunked by the magazine Biblical Archaeology.

Most religions claim persecution--thus the cause for "martyrs" in Christianity--most of whom never saw death (thus the square halos in early iconography), and others who went seeking it. Yet Martyrdom by definition is when the life of the individual is taken forcefully after a struggle.

The Jews were interlopers and mauraders when they moved out of India and settled in Palestine (Philistine land). The State of Israel has no legitimate right to exist--based on history.

Archaist, thank you for writing, the history either written or told by the 'losers' is very often much truer. Take Native American history for instance.

"There is a lot MORE truth in it than in any so-called 'American history' books.

"Sadly, such facts become quickly forgotten in this society, and thus people exist in blind 'faith' in whatever their govenment 'officials' tell them.

It is the same with the history of other nations who suffer aggression."

There is a seamy side of history for all nations. Unfortunately the jingo-boys, the super-patriots of each nation--ignore it as it exposes the foibles and fallacies of nationalism. American history is filled with injustices, carnage, murder, rape, and evils of various assortments--against all people--as it also had highlights of good and beneficiums. All must be looked at--from the gang rape of oriental women in American concentration camps during World War II to the excellent economy under Bill Clinton.