Just for the record, I am sitting it out because I was made to feel unwanted. As far as I know I have not been censured or banned.

Regardless of how I may feel about Quade’s moderation techniques, he is doing the job he was asked to do. I will not criticize him for that.

I have watched what you guys have done for the last few days, and you are beginning to come around to my kind of thinking.

Cooper wasn’t a “normal” person by most of our standards.

Thinking like a normal person, will not help anyone understand what might have happened. I respect the skydiver’s opinions (about skydiving issues), but they think of the issues like sensible people (assuming someone who jumps from perfectly good aircraft is sensible). They (we) need to think like a whacked-out, broken-hearted, pilled-up, suicidal, terminally-ill, poverty-stricken, nut case, with a grudge against someone and balls the size of grapefruits.

The FBI may (and probably does) have evidence and witness testimony that they will not or can not release. (Those things that they use to filter out kooks who want to claim to be Cooper). For instance; (this is an example not a theory), what if he asked that big cowboy that I saw getting off the plane in the Cronkite video to trade footwear with him? That would be a detail that only a few people would know. Tina wouldn’t even talk to reporters in Reno; she said the Captain had already stated that all information had to come from NW’s PR people or the FBI. So when Jake Kook says he is Cooper, the FBI says; tell us about it. No mention of the boot swap, then he ain’t Cooper. Now we have spent (not wasted) much bandwidth talking about shoes, that he may or may not have had on. So, the question to ask is not did the loafers fly off, but rather, did Tina or anyone else say he jumped with the shoes that he wore onto the plane. (End of Example)

The mythology has overwhelmed the facts. I’m not even sure that after 36 years anyone can state a fact about the hijacking.

I used to fly from Richland (in Eastern Washington) to Longview-Kelso I never flew directly to Longview. I stayed a little south toward Goldendale because it was mostly terrain that I felt I could make a (survivable) emergency landing. North of there was pretty abysmal. The route I took (and where I believe Cooper jumped is open farmland). My point is, knowing where he jumped, is assigning a probability of survival. This assumes that he pulled, and had a normal decent (that is your area not mine).

I don’t really care if he lived or died, I just want to know which it was. I’ve known Skyjack71 for quite a while. She does not present herself well online. When you talk to her, (after you have earned her trust) you find out that there are a lot of things that would make you think, wow, that’s too strange to be coincidence. Of all the Cooper wanna-bes, my money is on Weber. Skyjack71 has been taken advantage of in the past. She deals with two conflicting feelings. She wants help with her quest for the truth, but she doesn’t trust the people who might be the very ones (or only ones) able to help her. Please continue treating her with the respect you have been showing.

The FBI should be commended for allowing Agent Carr to work on the case. The way the investigation is perceived (at least by me) is that they just don’t have their head in the game. An example: The DNA from the tie. How do you determine that DNA on a tie came from the person wearing the tie (at the time it was taken into evidence)? Has this been done? How can you exclude Weber, based on the Tie-DNA, when he died in 1996 and the items sampled were obtained in 2002 (I think) with no chain-of-custody? Skyjack71 told them when they came to get them that they had been cleaned and used by other people. I want to help the FBI solve the case, but the FBI needs to help me get some facts straight.

Well, I’ve gone on way too long and drifted away from my original train of thought.

I want to post here on this site, but, only if I am welcome to do so. If Quade says that I am not welcome, that’s his call (remember, he has said nothing to me). If members say I am unwelcome, I will crawl back into my hole. It isn’t that I am thin-skinned (I love to joke and jab), it just that I am well aware that this is a Skydiver’s board, and I am not (an probably will never be) a Skydiver.

I want to post here on this site, but, only if I am welcome to do so. If Quade says that I am not welcome, that’s his call (remember, he has said nothing to me). If members say I am unwelcome, I will crawl back into my hole. It isn’t that I am thin-skinned (I love to joke and jab), it just that I am well aware that this is a Skydiver’s board, and I am not (an probably will never be) a Skydiver.

Feedback is encouraged.

Sluggo_Monster

You are absolutely welcome here, so keep up the posting. Let's hope that when the bans have been lifted, the other main players will reappear in this thread too... then we can keep the ball rolling and keep figuring it all out.

Welcome back!!! Man, you have to make an AFF jump. You are a pilot so you'll land way better than most first timers. Oh, and none of us actually do jump from perfectly good airplanes. When the commuter airlines no longer want em, they fly parcel cargo. When the freight dogs dont want them, the smugglers fly em. When even the smugglers dont want em they get a new coat of paint, some creative logbook entries, some "overhauled" parts with Miami style yellow tags and start a new life as jumpships.

When I refer to Miami style, the old timers will know what I mean. A buddy flew a DC 6 with four fresh Miami overhauled props from FL to CA. Over TX, one prop ran away, uncontrollable pitch and overspeed, a very dangerous thing. Quick emergency landing in TX. They pulled the prop and found critical internal parts MISSING from the "overhauled" pitch control unit in the hub.

Maybe Quade spanking the forum has had some good results (I HATE to admit that censorship has ANY benefits). It sure is peaceful here now. Not a flame, troll, slam or slur to be found.

The book he read...not about HIM, but about DB Cooper...the man who's money he obtained. DB died on impact. Duane reaped the reward.

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Sorry to blow theory out of the water - not just out of the water but out of SIGHT.

The trip Duane and I made was in 1979. Norjax was published in 1986 Max Gunthers book was published in 1985 HaHaHa by Cooper was published in 1983 Tosaws's book in 1984

What does that do to that senario. The Money is found in early 1980 Duane makes sure we do not see the TV. Feb 1980 Duane claims he lost his Job. Mar 1980 Duane leaves Co Mar 1980 Duane only comes back for daughter's graduation June 1980 - my daug and I join him in AL He went to a dead end job - left good job good money March 1980

Now after he dies in 1995 - I find he resigned - he requested to go back East using myself and my daug as the excuse. His letter of resignation was in his private papers.

Until the books above where published Cooper thought he had made a clean get away.

As soon as he got wind of one of the books and the composite - he grows his hair long and sports a bushy mustache...not a sign of the times - I hate facial hair. Had previously refuse a promotion saying he had to keep a LOW profile - this was confusing. Duane was Cooper.

I had a conversation with Agent Carr today: Will address that later: Not Good.

The trip Duane and I made was in 1979.Norjax was publishe in 1986 Max Gunthers book was published in 1985 HaHaHa by Cooper was published in 1983 Tosaws's book in 1984

What does that do to that senario. The Money is found in early 1980

The money being planted in '79 and 'found' in '80 still stands (if it indeed was planted and not flown down).

The other dates do not matter (of the ones I quoted above). If Duane found the money (him being on the ground) he'd want to read up on every available theory and story that was published for the public's consumption. The books did -not- have to be in print before he 'hid' the money...whenever that happened.

think it is possible that the mapped flight path is waaay off from the path actually flown by NWA 305 that night. I know there is a huge disagreement on that point. Most think the mapped flight path that the FBI used was very accurate. I do not yet share that level of confidence.

I am of the belief that the flight path was as close to Victor-23 (V23) as is humanly possible. I would love to get the opinion of a commercial pilot that flew in the Pac NW back in the 70s. As of now, that’s my assumption.

The track plotted on the 1971 Chart shows the plane East of V23 until he reached the BTG VOR. Then he turned more westerly and crossed the river just East of Pearson Air Park. This put him back on V-23. He crossed the river essentially on V23, which put him 2.3 miles NW of PDX Where the runways cross). He remained mostly on V-23 (as far as I can tell from the low-resolution image I have), but continued with a very erratic flight-path on into Northern California. That is, if we can believe the plotted track.

Attached is a Portland Inset (from a current Seattle Sectional). It shows a Class C airspace. The chart the FBI plotted the track on (1971) did not show the Class C Space. However, V-23 certainly existed then and I suppose the airspace was cleared by ATC if it needed to be. (It would not need to be today because the highest ceiling of the Class C is 4,000 ft MSL and Scott was flying at 10,000 ft.) All accounts that I have read say they were flying V23.

I have heard two arguments for why the Captain said he was flying V23, yet the plot shows that he was flying “generally near V23”.

One is that they were making drastic level flight turns to try to dislodge Cooper from the stairs. Well, if that’s what they were doing, they didn’t go aft to see if they were successful, because they flew all the way to Reno not knowing if he was gone or not. I don’t think big jets can make those kinds of maneuvers (on purpose). Once again I’d like to talk to a Commercial Pilot with 727 experience.

The other is that the flight crew had so much going on, they veered off course (a lot). This is more believable to me, but I’m still not buying it. I could speculate on High Altitude VOR or VORs being used at 10,000 ft. But it would take records from the day to know for sure, so it would be pure speculation.

Anyway, use V-23 or use the FBI plot on a 1971 Sectional Chart, either way he crossed the river at the same place.

Similarly, the husband of the OP is someone who could and did screw up everything he touched. not much else.

But he didn't screw this one up. -----------------------------------------------------------

In reply to:

The problem is that this is the kind of action that only a consummate loser would claim as the basis for bragging rights. Enter the spouse of the OP.

Who is bragging ? - I believe in Do the Crime, Do the Time - this is NOT something I would BRAG about. Unfortunately crime has escalated in this country - and Cooper not being found has not set a good example. ----------------------------------------------------------

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The idea that this guy was recruited "Dirty Dozen" style to be a Smoke Jumper is laughable. There is good reason why records of such a program are so elusive.

Who suggested this? Naming individuals Duane had connections with - and have knowledge of his past - this is not saying they were involved or that Duane was recruited. That is reading way too much into what I said --- .

Ed Horan - this individual talked about Duane and their past as young men in Wa, Id, Mt and Or.... I believe this is a connections to some type of training that would cause him to even entertain the idea of a skyjack. He did not think he would survive...he had a death wish.

Frank Roach - because Duane told me something about this individual - but it does NOT mean that he was involved in the skyjacking - it could mean access to the information and skills. ------------------------------------------------------------

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In any event, the claims that have been made so far may not be bullshit, but they sound suspiciously similar.

Unfortunately I have borrowed nothing from anyone -I have only stated what I have discovered and I have had to play with some ideas - I always end up where I started but with some added insite. My conversation with Carr was not good. -----------------------------------------------------------

There’s something that has been haunting me for the last few days, and it concerns some things that Duane said to you. I don’t have a post handy that I can quote, so I’ll paraphrase as best I can.

The first one was something like; “I put some money in a bucket and then forgot where I put the bucket”.

The other was; “This is where Cooper walked out of the woods”. And you asked: “How do you know,” he said; “Maybe I was the one on the ground”.

I hope this is enough for you to go on. Would you please, rewrite these two quotes and get them exactly right (as best as your memory can serve you)?

Oh yeah; Just one more thing. Did Duane frequently speak using metaphors? (EXAMPLE) Instead of explaining why he didn’t answer the doorbell (because the TV was too loud), he would say something like; “I had wax in my ears, and didn’t hear the horn toot”. (END EXAMPLE)

skyjack71 I’m like SafecrackerPLF; I think we’re closer to the truth than we have ever been. The truth may not be what we want to hear, but it’s lurking out there. And as I said in an earlier post; “Right now, my money is on Duane”. If I’m not gainfully employed, by spring, I’m going to go to Vancouver and do some more poking around. (Record searches and boots-on-ground searches).

Do you know (as in personally acquainted) that guy (I can’t remember his name) who has been sampling the water in the Washougal watershed looking for unique algae and just walking the forest up there? If so, can you put me in touch with him?

And to all the skydivers on this forum (Is it “skydiver” or “plane droppings”?), thanks again for your comments and PMs. Now, we got to recover SafecrackerPFL and Ckret. And yes, I do take the NW305 hijacking mystery very seriously. I just don’t take Sluggo, very seriously!

skyjack71 , The first one was something like; “I put some money in a bucket and then forgot where I put the bucket”.

Two of us heard the comment - we differ on the amount, but not the wording..."I put $173,000 (she says $178,000) in a bucket and I couldn't find the bucket."

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In reply to:

The other was; “That is where Cooper walked out of the woods”. And you asked: “How do you know,” he said; “Maybe I was the one on the ground”.

That and not This and it is dead on.

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In reply to:

Oh yeah; Just one more thing. Did Duane frequently speak using metaphors?

Even with the examples my mind is just not here tonight - I know he had a sense for humor. He would joking say "I got something famous named after me"..he started saying this in 1990 - After his treatment with the dialysis machine started.

He said things like " Like sitting in a bowl of sugar" referring to the white sands of Destin. When he wanted me to hurry - "Let's get on down the road, Jo". I don't know if this is what you are looking for but the best I can do tonight. -----------------------------------------------------------

In reply to:

I think we’re closer to the truth than we have ever been.

My conversation with Carr did not leave me feeling that way - perhaps why I feel so bad tonight. --------------------------------------------------------

Thomas is a Viet Nam Vet who has walked the woods looking for Cooper's bones and money.. He used to touch base with Himmelsbach and that was how I got messages to him...but he is the supposed expert that told me there was no way the Washougal could be on my left and disclaimed that the other things I was talking about did not exist. Yet, I found them in my 2001 trip...with the help of an Angel named Udell.(the woman found me at the DoubleTree - told me where to go - and then gave a fake name and address).

Not likely. Assumes the aircraft is exactly on a planned flight route and not left or right of it, so the only variable is how far along the path the aircraft has flown. If there is any crosswind at all, the landing area would not be underneath the aircraft line of flight. The ground person calling for exit would have to estimate the amount of time it would take to stow the radio and walk down the stairs; 30 seconds off would be a mile, in the dark. Spotting from the ground in the daytime when you can see the aircraft is hard enough. At night, using just sound, does not have a high probability of success.

I don't think I've read anywhere that Cooper asked for for the flight path to be adjusted, as it would need to be if he had a particular landing area in mind.

I didn't mean "spot" in the conventional sense that we use the term. Simply in the sense of "hey DB you are over-head now". I can't visualise a corridor that is +/-4 mile corridor 10 thousand feet above in terms of horizon. Also it was mentioned ages ago and I don't remember an answer - if aircraft fly reference to Above Sea level (and their altimeters are referenced to that?) then what is the elevation of the DZ - people say it is rugged is it 1 or 2 thousand feet ASL meaning an 8-9k AGL potential exit?

People have mentioned that it would not have been to co-ordinate with someone on the ground as there were no mobile telephones back then - this is just an option. Now the problem is that even IF he had a radio in the plane he isn't going to be able to use it under canopy - but then again having it on him may allow for a final meeting post jump.

Maybe Quade spanking the forum has had some good results (I HATE to admit that censorship has ANY benefits). It sure is peaceful here now. Not a flame, troll, slam or slur to be found.

No censorship at all. However, when people won't be civil, they'll just be removed for awhile. If they aren't willing to follow the rules, then I'll take away the only thing I can to make them understand the consequences of their behavior.

a very erratic flight-path on into Northern California. That is, if we can believe the plotted track.

.

That erratic path is odd. I am not a licensed pilot but when I worked for an avionics company I actually got a fair amount of cockpit jump seat time in large jet airliners (L1011s, 747s and DC 10s). It seemed to me that they were on autopilot almost all the time other than takeoff and landing. Turns were cranked into a heading selector. The erratic flight path just seems odd. Any pilots care to comment?

Without a synced radar track and ATC recording there is simply no way to know precisely why the plot looks the way it does. My guess is that several minor turns were made near Portland to maintain aircraft separation, but that's just a guess. I see nothing unusual at all.

I'm simply guessing here. Their attention was split between navigation, keeping their operations center (and therefore the authorities) updated and worrying about a bomb going off. I'm not familiar with the autopilot on that plane back then but it seems they had altitude hold and the manual heading bug (dial with a pointer) engaged. You would have to manually turn a knob to change heading. It wouldn't be automatic. This could cause them to not be precisely on the airway and wandering a bit.

“That is where Cooper walked out of the woods”. And you asked: “How do you know,” he said; “Maybe I was the one on the ground."

Yeah, this was the quote that got me speculating that Duane may have been the accomplice and not the hijacker in the previous thread...

Can someone remind me where the placard was found - i don't actually recall seeing this anywhere? Surely that would help with an indication of exactly which route the aircraft was flying? Is it reasonable to assume Cooper may have chucked it out just before or quite soon before he jumped?

Can someone remind me where the placard was found - i don't actually recall seeing this anywhere? Surely that would help with an indication of exactly which route the aircraft was flying? Is it reasonable to assume Cooper may have chucked it out just before or quite soon before he jumped?

ok... so has anyone used that location to try track the flight path, rather than working backwards from where the money was found and how it may or may not have got there? (sorry.. not sure how to search for that )

ok... so has anyone used that location to try track the flight path, rather than working backwards from where the money was found and how it may or may not have got there? (sorry.. not sure how to search for that )

If memory serves, since the hunter didn't make a note of the exact place he picked up the placard, there's no exact way to pinpoint that location. It'd be a guess... So, to answer your question, nobody's confessed (here) to following up on tracking that area, looking for Cooper Clues.

If you look at the top of the flight plan map that has been posted, you will see the number 2005 written on the map. To the north of 2005 that lake the flight path is going over is Silver Lake. I believe that small dot just to the east of the flight path, at the very top of the map, is Toutle.