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It's actually quite easy to do. You can turn 190 degrees in one go without much problem (provided you're somewhat good at keeping your balance) or in 2-3 smaller movements without compromising it at all.

Try it then. Make a video. Remember, no jerking movements, no sudden stops, must turn in only one direction all throughout, no loss of balance or trying to compensate for loss of balance, etc. Basically, turn on one foot and make it seem as if you're turning using two feet.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

And just to be clear I'm not saying Index was turning around on one foot - I was pointing out that one might be able to turn around but be unable to do sudden or fast movements.

Give examples. You can turn around, but you can't dodge or walk/run around? How does that even work? You're using the same muscles in your legs, feet and lower abdomen.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

If a couple of people start throwing things at you which you need to dodge after 2-3 hops you'll lose your balance and fall (we're still talking about the one legged example here). We're not talking about just hopping here -we're talking about dodging attacks here. It's physically not possible while turning around is.

Like I said, you don't need to dodge when there is nothing to dodge from.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

A couple of the actually landed behind him, they didn't retreat. The ones that attacked him weren't the ones attacking Index. It's just full of nuns attacking them. Just the fact that they flew quite the distance and landed on their back would have prevented them from getting right back up which was shown since they all but one were unconscious.The one that wasn't was still holding her head in pain thus she didn't recover right away (18:26).

The ones that landed behind Tatemiya were never shown again. They couldn't just disappear into thin air, right?

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

But they aren't holding a perimeter. See that's just it - you can't hold a perimeter especially if your forces are concentrated on one spot - that's holding a line. Since they were moving it would be more accurate to say they were sweeping the area though that's not holding a perimeter either especially as I said if both of them are together in a situation where attacks can come from any direction.

Have you not played any sort of RTS game? They are holding a perimeter. And holding the line is just a simplified version of holding a perimeter -- instead of defending a position from all angles, you only take one. Do you know what a perimeter is? It is what binds an area. Holding the perimeter means not letting anyone into this area. Why do this? To prevent ranged casters to get within range and cast ranged spells on Index.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

I mean the nuns were a few metres from Index, had enough time to listen to some crazy fanatic talk, take out their pens and puncture their eardrums. In the meantime Stiyl and Tatemiya were sitting on another roof watching. The nuns had plenty of time to launch a ranged attack that couldn't be stopped from those two just sitting there on the other side of the building. The only reason they didn't was because of the already mentioned point that was supposed to be reinforced by this scene.

And what makes you think Stiyl wouldn't have thrown a rune card or a fireball if they tried to cast some ranged magic? What makes you think that the living library of the world's magical knowledge, Index Librorum Prohibitorum, wouldn't know that they are trying to attack her with ranged spells? What makes you think that Stiyl would just leave Index alone when she is in danger? And stop trying to take the meta route.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

But they are all over the place, outnumber their enemy by a large margin and can come as reinforcements at any time. You can't simply ignore them.

They can be ignored because they never went against Index during the whole time that she was chanting. They are also being kept busy by the Amakusa and Touma + Orsola.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

However it's incorrect. The perspective isn't that distorted in that scene to require you to take the average. Look at the tiles on the columns and compare their hight as they go up and you'll get a sense of how little role the perspective plays here.
For the other part you can look at the angle clearly seen in the pavement. All in all you can't go with an average hight here because it's incorrect.

Also Index is actually not as tall as the blue bar in that screen. (I believe that's just due to the animation) If you look at the nuns that have been knocked out, by those charts half of them will be more or around 2 metres tall. That's Highly doubtful if you ask me considering most of them seem to have a very similar hight.

One more thing is that regardless of all the things I said, to be correct you'd also have to remove one Index bar since her mouth isn't exactly on the ground. Add that to the things I listed above and you'll end up with something quite different.

You do realize why I concluded the presence of perspective distortion and thus used the average, instead of just using Index's height as shown by her figure on the ground, right? Look at the blue bar. Now, look at how tall Index is compared to Lucia earlier in the episode. Then, look at how different the two heights are. You cannot ignore either measurements, so you instead take the average. Also, as you can see from the last line of the green text at the top, I already compensated for this.

Now, now, don't go writing things off as animation errors. If you go that route, I might as well say that the portrayal of Sheol Fear, Index's position, and the number of nuns around her and their positions/actions are animation mistakes. Or were you trying to say that the animation makes her look shorter? I don't think there is anything wrong with having a few nuns be around 2 meters tall. And going back to the perspective aspect, you can clearly see that those nuns on the floor are smaller than the nuns on the roof. Thus, the difference in size due to perspective does exist, and the heights should be averaged in order to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

Just for the record, I've lived on the 2nd and on the 5th floor( at times you have to talk louder unlike on the second) and I have no problem talking to people using my regular voice (provided there's no wind or other loud noises like cars, construction equipment or something you'd have trouble hearing over even if you were standing a few metres from the person you're talking to).

Good for you. Maybe you have a loud talking voice? But by 2 floors below, I meant you being on the third floor and talking to someone on the ground (just to clarify, ground level = 1st floor). Or, let's reverse that. You'll be the one on the ground trying to talk to someone on the third floor using only your normal conversational voice.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

And this isn't exactly an open space. Cathedrals in general provide good conditions for an echo. Index is a bit too close to the wall when she turned around but before that it wouldn't be far fetched to say there was a clear one.

Yes, this is an open space. They are fighting outside a chapel, not inside it. And echo doesn't work that way. It doesn't amplify the sound from outside when there are other areas onto which it may be transmitted to. And again, she isn't shouting at the top of her lungs here. Just using normal conversational volume. Instead of the chapel increasing the volume of her voice, it will instead act as a drain onto which most of the sound waves will be transmitted to and 'trapped'. The only sound waves that will be able to reach the roof and still have enough energy to be heard are those from the direct line of sight up to the vertical.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

I don't know if you ever held a roof tile but it's quite heavy. Add that to the fact you're throwing it from above and it could knock you out cold without a problem.

We're you seriously considering this? During the time it would take them to take out roof tiles, Stiyl would have fried them three times over and Index would have safely retreated to another position. Like I said, a futile, short-term tactic with no strategic value.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

Leave aside the Fact that Luccia can use a strong ranged attack that would knock back Index without a problem.

Catherine's Wheel? That only packs a punch when it's used in close proximity or in tight corridors. If she brought that out, Index would have noticed it and retreated accordingly (remember, she was already expecting some kind of magic attack when the nuns brought out their pens), or Stiyl would have noticed and reacted accordingly. And we also have Tatemiya.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

Well to be honest these scenes are way better reference since we have a lot more detail. In the other scenes where the details are not that important since we already know what the object is and something with a similar shape and unique features due to which we recognise the object. That's something extremely common in anime. It's part of the animation quality of a series. If you look at some of the pen nibs you'll notice they are wider than the pen itself making it impossible to put the "cap" (not sure how that's called in English) back on. The important part of the pen however was the nib and for it to clearly be seen it was made larger (and who in general cares about those pens to make them completely accurate even between two scenes where the pen is the same.

Which is why we use the one pen that nun's hand used, instead of the pen that belonged to an unknown nun's hand. This is important. Clearly, there are differences. Do not try to write them off as animation errors or what not, since we are sticking to the anime here. Or do you want me to bring in the novel to the discussion?

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

From what I saw (minus the animation part which I just mentioned) they were exactly the same. Saying they are different is really far fetched considering everyone had one thus it's implied it's a standard fountain pen they all have (probably as some suggested to communicate via notes). It's part of their equipment along with the nun outfits and so on. It quite unlikely that every nun carries two unique fountain pens with her.

It is also quite unlikely for magic to exist. It is also quite unlikely for nuns to wield swords and other melee weapons. It is also quite unlikely for Stiyl to be 14 years old. That said, irregardless of whether it is unlikely or not, that nun did not own that fountain pen which you used as an example. That is what we observed. Do not try to change the data you observed to fit your theory. Instead, change your theory to fit the data that you observe.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

And the thumb actually obscures it completely. I do agree the rest of the fingers don't but I was talking about the thumb to begin with and it clearly does.

Nope. Look again. Note that we use two pictures here to clarify the existence or nonexistence of the golden ring. Refer to the nun's pic right before she inserted it (the one I posted before), and then the second pic in your post. As you can see, the first pic does not show any golden ring. If it was obscured by the thumb in the first pic, it should be visible (or at least hinted at by a sudden change on the curvature of the pen) on the second pic. It's not, therefore it does not exist. The sudden change in curvature occurs much nearer to the ear, which should be the start of the black and gold bands right before the nib.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

But if you add one more centimetre on top of that it would apply pressure on it. Sure it's bone but the distance is so small it will have some sort of effect.You can't attribute the lack of pain to an order(in general, though this is an anime). It's there even if you try to ignore it. And the pain from a punctured eardrum is quite strong. It does go away rather quickly but it's still very intense.

When is it ever mentioned that they never felt pain? The point was that pain is a non-issue. Meaning, it doesn't matter if it's painful or not. Also, the middle ear is hollow, as it connects to the nasopharynx. Or were you talking about applying pressure to the bone? That won't do a thing to the vestibular system. Either way, the approximate depth of insertion I had measured would not even be able to reach the inner wall of the tympanic cavity (and if on the few occasions that it does, it won't be able to pierce through it). If you want to disturb the vestibule, you'd have to twist it up a bit and actually try to reach it.

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Originally Posted by Joe_fh

As for the vertigo part - you actually do experience it most cases. How severe it is differers of course.
And from 1) it clearly states that : Other common symptoms of perforated eardrum include: Vertigo (spinning sensation).

Like I said, vertigo itself is also a symptom. I gave two links as sources to clarify this. For example, you have an inner ear infection/inflammation that caused your eardrum to rupture. This will cause vertigo. A simple eardrum rupture will not in most cases, and in the times that it does, it will disappear very quickly. There's a reason why it's listed in the other common symptoms section: this usually means that there is more to it than just mere eardrum rupture. See: Vertigo, hearing loss, ringing sound (tinnitus). Also, see this link for more info.

Some of the complaints in this episode are ridicules. If someone wants to over analyze something and then complain about it then they should at least pay attention and analyze every scene and not just the ones they THINK contains a mistake.

The entire discussion on how index was not that far from the nuns on the roof and how her voice could have reached her, was answered when index first starts to sing.

She obviously has to only reach people of a particular mindset. IF the nuns on the roof could hear her then so could her allies. Thats why Sty had the A.C fall back because it would lower her power.....

Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights.

Age: 26

Sigh...

What were people expecting anyways, not even me who wanted to see the second season even pop out so much doesn't have much to expect.

Am I wrong in my "Don't think, feel" approach? Because I feel things start to not make sense when people start thinking about them.

No offense though. Just... anyone heard of that phrase? The "Don't think, feel" thing? And by the way I'm looking at this episode's progress on discussions, this is getting so dragged out in my opinion, and I don't feel such discussions like what I've seen up to now that necessary. Sorry if you think they do, but that's what I feel though...

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I like to run portable on my dude, so I ran while running runs in my portably portable, dude-like dude.Kazuma Kamachi FCSince we are all so trigger happy about certain behaviors that we do when talking about his works.

Well the pens being taken out and showing that they completely removed their eardrums is sorta like a spoiler for the next episode
Their eardrums now? That is just too crazy...

That would indeed be a spoiler...if they even show it. It made me cringe. I was wondering why they used pens, figured they just wanted to block the sound out but going for the ear drums themselves...*shudder*

Well apparently no one really understood the point of my really long post - it was exactly that - showing that over-analysing a situation that's not meant to be even analysed at all but taken the way it is is seriously redundant.

You can pretty much find holes in every scene especially ones in which the most logical thing didn't happen but rather something completely different happened - it's because the author chose to do it that way and it served a purpose.
My only complaint was that compared to everything we saw in Index s1 this was bit exaggerated due to the obvious lack of pain which as pointed out above is present in the LN. And it wasn't really a major complaint or anything just to note it could have been made better.

Though in the end it seems everyone are left with the wrong impression and I didn't get through to anyone with what I was trying to point out.

@Ice Block: I'll take a look at your response later since I don't have the time right now.

Am I wrong in my "Don't think, feel" approach? Because I feel things start to not make sense when people start thinking about them.

No offense though. Just... anyone heard of that phrase? The "Don't think, feel" thing? And by the way I'm looking at this episode's progress on discussions, this is getting so dragged out in my opinion, and I don't feel such discussions like what I've seen up to now that necessary. Sorry if you think they do, but that's what I feel though...

If you mean just the words, I think that was from one of the old martial-arts movies...

If you mean "everyone relax already, it's just a show", then allow me to direct you to tvtrope page MST3K Mantra.

What were people expecting anyways, not even me who wanted to see the second season even pop out so much doesn't have much to expect.

Am I wrong in my "Don't think, feel" approach? Because I feel things start to not make sense when people start thinking about them.

No offense though. Just... anyone heard of that phrase? The "Don't think, feel" thing? And by the way I'm looking at this episode's progress on discussions, this is getting so dragged out in my opinion, and I don't feel such discussions like what I've seen up to now that necessary. Sorry if you think they do, but that's what I feel though...

Not at all.....seeing that I also watch my anime and read my novels like this....what do you expect of someone who just wants some entertainment to unwind?

@Ice Block: I read your post and basically you pretty much have the same holes in your arguments as before. Since you missed my point entirely (and it seems everyone else also kind of did) I doubt there's any reason to reply, though if you want me to, I well.

Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma

Age: 36

What the crap am I watching?

What happened to the To Aru Majutsu no Index from the first season?

It's like they decided to amp up all the fight scenes and make it darker and edgier with more awesome magic - then did such a poor execution of the idea that the result is just awful.

Even granting Nuns are Mikos, and ignoring the horribly mixed up and offensive depiction of Catholics (and I'm not a Catholic), it's still a horrible show.

The army of nuns that were competent just one episode ago are now just faceless mooks to be mowed down to show how awesome the heroes are. They can't even seem to stay consistent on the use of lethal or non-lethal force.

I mean- in one scene they depict lethal weapons being used non-lethally which is pretty common for this sort of show- and then next scene a nun takes a fireball to the face and is pretty much dead or horribly disfigured- but then the atmosphere is still played in the light-hearted hero romp that only plays well when the heroes don't actually have to kill anybody. (Or if we've already had an atmosphere from the beginning of using lethal force).

Like Touma wouldn't be traumatized by all the killing? That just doesn't match with his personality of characterization at all. He might accept it as necessary, but he would certainly be deeply troubled by it. That's the atmosphere you need for lethal force. A sense of desperation on the part of the heroes, a sense that they are being forced into killing, and that this is painful to them.

Instead we get typical "no one dies" atmosphere while nuns are getting burnt to a crisp in a curb stomp battle.

I don't think this is a problem with the adaption. It's a problem with the source material. It went away from the formula that works: Touma confronting the villian who only has a handful of mooks at hand and the Touma pulling off a win through guts and his anti-magic hand.

I'm not saying that the formula didn't need some new development. But this is just lame. Why not have Touma start calling members of the "Touma faction" to help when he's over matched like this. That would be far far more interesting.

I mean, come on Touma. If you're up against 250 mooks and need non-lethal crowd control, who are you gonna call? Not flamethrower man. That's a job for BriBri (if only he had gotten her phone number in that first episode).

And that doesn't even get into the "our ally is actually the villain" plot twist which was not set up right! Why was Orsola tied up if the Amakusa where actually helping her? Why did she flee from them and they they had to kidnap her back?

It is not adequately explained! (This might be the fault of the adaptation)

It's got plot holes big enough for a buffalo to run through.

I seriously hope this is not the plan for the whole second season. If so I might just drop this season.

Ugh... and the talking, and the talking needed to explain the awesomeness of the spell Index was using. Lameness!!! As bad as shounen action shows like DBZ! Just say that her spell is forcing the enemy to face the contradictions between their ideals and their actions against Orsola. Simple. Short. Still awesome! And then we don't need to get the further lameness of explaining why Index didn't just whip this spell out before.

The only good scene this episode was the one when Touma walks in and you think he's going to fight alone against a group too big for him to beat, all for this woman he barely knows, simply because it's the right thing to do.

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Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?

The army of nuns that were competent just one episode ago are now just faceless mooks to be mowed down to show how awesome the heroes are. They can't even seem to stay consistent on the use of lethal or non-lethal force.

this is a problem of the anime

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I mean- in one scene they depict lethal weapons being used non-lethally which is pretty common for this sort of show

it's actually a plot point that they don't kill anyone. Well, the amakusa don't kill because it's their policy(thanks to Kanzaki), but Stiyl specifically didn't kill anyone because killing would have been worse for them than just knocking them out, as seeing their comrades die would just get the other nuns to fight harder and with greater ferocity...

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Like Touma wouldn't be traumatized by all the killing? That just doesn't match with his personality of characterization at all. He might accept it as necessary, but he would certainly be deeply troubled by it. That's the atmosphere you need for lethal force. A sense of desperation on the part of the heroes, a sense that they are being forced into killing, and that this is painful to them.

Except they are purposely not killing anyone. Though imo, the "no one dies whenever Touma is involved" is one of the problems of the novels...

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I don't think this is a problem with the adaption.

No, it is a problem with the adaptation. Read the novel for a comparison...

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I'm not saying that the formula didn't need some new development. But this is just lame. Why not have Touma start calling members of the "Touma faction" to help when he's over matched like this. That would be far far more interesting.

eh.

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I mean, come on Touma. If you're up against 250 mooks and need non-lethal crowd control, who are you gonna call? Not flamethrower man. That's a job for BriBri (if only he had gotten her phone number in that first episode).

Kanzaki, actually. But again, it was a plot point that she doesn't directly get involved...Touma was just being himself there, going in alone...

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Why was Orsola tied up if the Amakusa where actually helping her? Why did she flee from them and they they had to kidnap her back?

Because she started to think the Amakusa were actually helping her to get something in return. They tied her up for the same reason

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It's got plot holes big enough for a buffalo to run through.

Not that big, but i agree this arc was one of the "weakest", both in terms of content and execution

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I seriously hope this is not the plan for the whole second season. If so I might just drop this season.

There's going to be another arc similar to this(though MUCH better)

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Ugh... and the talking, and the talking needed to explain the awesomeness of the spell Index was using.

She's not using a spell, actually...

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Just say that her spell is forcing the enemy to face the contradictions between their ideals and their actions against Orsola. Simple. Short. Still awesome! And then we don't need to get the further lameness of explaining why Index didn't just whip this spell out before.

This skill forces the enemy to face the contraddictions of Christianity, nothing to do with their actions. And it was explained that it works much better against large groups who share the same belief, and wouldn't be much useful otherwise...

It's been explained before that Stiyl did not actually burn any nuns to death but created shockwaves with his magic to blast them away nonlethally. If he had killed any nuns, the other ones would have gone berserk, possibly suicide attacking, which would have worsened their situation. None of the nuns died, although some did go comatose. Remember, the clothing of the nuns are most probably enhanced with magic like Index's at the start of the first season to defend them from attacks.

You have to take in mind that before, the nuns had an advantage in which they were attacking a place the Amakusa had to guard, as well as the Amakusa also searching for Orsola at the same time. This time, the Agnese Forces have to guard their own home turf. I do agree that it is J.C.Staff's fault that they made the nuns look so incompetent though. They could have at least shown the Amakusa resorting to espionage tactics in order to fight instead of having Itsuwa take out 10 nuns in one attack.

And I will reiterate the author's words again, THERE IS NO REASON TO FOR MIKOTO TO APPEAR WHEN MAGIC TAKES HOLD OF THE STORY. How is over a billion volt electricity and railguns safer than shockwaves from fire magic? I'd say that's actually more dangerous, since Mikoto doesn't exactly pay close attention to her surroundings when she uses her powers and charges stubbornly in headfirst without grasping a hold of the situation, whereas Stiyl exhibits more control, analyzes the situation, and acts accordingly.

And besides, aren't Index, Stiyl, and the Amakusa Catholics part of the "Touma faction"?

Orsola was probably tied up because she changed her mind and the Amakusa Catholics knew that it wasn't safe for her to go rushing out there where the Roman Catholics have a higher chance of catching her.

Sheol Fear isn't a spell, it's a pointing out of contradictions in their very beliefs in Christianity. The explanations are what makes Index interesting, and if the explanation for Sheol Feor wasn't included, there would be a lot more people complaining about why it wasn't featured in the anime before.

This is easily the weakest arc of the second season. Don't worry, it's gonna become much better later on, especially at the end. I'd recommend you check out the light novels, since they are really good and provide more details that the anime will skip.