I beg to differ, CoorO. In fact, I can't even take credit for it. That's Ozzie. Look at it historically as well. 2008 is a perfect example for tackles. In order as they were selected: 1) Jake Long - Miami. 12) Ryan Clady - Denver. 14) Chris Williams - Chicago. 15) Brendan Albert (listed as Guard) - Kansas City. 17) Gosder Cherilus - Detroit. 19) Jeff Otah - Carolina. 21) Sam Baker - Atlanta. Here's where the wrench gets thrown in. 26) Duane Brown - Houston. And I remember Houston getting criticism for this pick as Kiper and others thought he shouldn't have gone until the 3rd round. But if you look at the selections from Jake Long to Sam Baker (with the exception of Albert), there is a depletion in talent. 2010 and 2011 are similar (2009 wasn't a good draft for anything). It's the same at just about every position in every draft. The top 2 guys were typically successful where the 3rd to 5th guy was a shotgun splatter. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you don't. But I'd rather take my chances on a guy who's one of the top 2 players at his position than to reach for the someone simply because you feel you must. It's easier to palate a reach when you do it from the second round on. In a nutshell, I'd rather have C.J. Mosley or Eric Ebron than Zack Martin.

I know we're not getting Watkins. And I wouldn't trade the farm for anyone. It's just a dream. I'm far more in favor of the Ravens trading down than to ever trading up. More picks, more chances of drafting a player that pans out.

But the way NFL teams make their boards is that they rank players in terms of skill regardless of position. So, if they Ravens feel there are 5 OTs better than the #1 ILB, they'll take that 5th OT before the ILB and they absolutely should. You gotta take the highest rated player on your board regardless of position and if it's the 5th one taken at a position it just means either that position is deep or the position without someone taken yet (ILB in this case) isn't as strong._________________

Wow! Thanks for the head's up on Rotoworld (contracts), guys. I had no idea. I have used them for gathering fantasy football information for years but I had no idea they had contract info. Thank you!

I agree the demand for Monroe's services will be high. And it could easily drive up his (agent's) demands. I'm hoping that the Ravens prioritize signing him. He's too talented to let go.

Ozzie always said that he would never trade for a player in the last year of his contract. I don't think he would have brought Monroe in just to let him walk. I really hope the Ravens get Monroe signed long term relatively soon.

Yeah, I think our best bet is signing Monroe prior to FA... because if he gets there, other teams will be willing to throw money at him that I don't think we would be able to "smartly" match. But even signing him prior to that, I don't think we could hope for anything less than about $38m with 17.5m gtd... though maybe Ozzie pulls another Yanda deal out of his sleeve.

I didn't think Yanda would sign for anything less than $7m based on research of what the top OTs were making and Ozzie got him back for $6.4m per. So if we could bring Monroe back for say... $7.2m... well, consider me a fan. I just don't want us to be overpaying him. I like his pass blocking ability, but I just don't think he's a complete tackle. His run blocking is only average. He doesn't do enough for me to believe he should be in a similar contract range as say Duane Brown... who CAN run block at a high level.

In line with this-and also why I think getting him midseason was such a potential coup-is the idea that we can use the tag as leverage. We can prevent him from reaching the open market, which should give us some amount of leverage in working out a LT extension._________________

I beg to differ, CoorO. In fact, I can't even take credit for it. That's Ozzie. Look at it historically as well. 2008 is a perfect example for tackles. In order as they were selected: 1) Jake Long - Miami. 12) Ryan Clady - Denver. 14) Chris Williams - Chicago. 15) Brendan Albert (listed as Guard) - Kansas City. 17) Gosder Cherilus - Detroit. 19) Jeff Otah - Carolina. 21) Sam Baker - Atlanta. Here's where the wrench gets thrown in. 26) Duane Brown - Houston. And I remember Houston getting criticism for this pick as Kiper and others thought he shouldn't have gone until the 3rd round. But if you look at the selections from Jake Long to Sam Baker (with the exception of Albert), there is a depletion in talent. 2010 and 2011 are similar (2009 wasn't a good draft for anything). It's the same at just about every position in every draft. The top 2 guys were typically successful where the 3rd to 5th guy was a shotgun splatter. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you don't. But I'd rather take my chances on a guy who's one of the top 2 players at his position than to reach for the someone simply because you feel you must. It's easier to palate a reach when you do it from the second round on. In a nutshell, I'd rather have C.J. Mosley or Eric Ebron than Zack Martin.

I know we're not getting Watkins. And I wouldn't trade the farm for anyone. It's just a dream. I'm far more in favor of the Ravens trading down than to ever trading up. More picks, more chances of drafting a player that pans out.

Ozzie has already shown he will take an offensive tackle in the first round even if he isn't the top rated guy at the position. You omitted the 2009 draft but that's where the Ravens took Oher, who was the 4th tackle taken in the first round. They even moved up to get him. I don't really care about how guys have panned out in prior drafts because they are the prospects being drafted this year. Each player is his own specific case and history of other guys has practically nothing to do with it. Of course some are going to bust, but that's the nature of the draft. Taking the best player available, even if he isn't the top rated player at his position while there's a other guy on the board who is the top rated player at his position, isn't reaching.

Flaccomania wrote:

But the way NFL teams make their boards is that they rank players in terms of skill regardless of position. So, if they Ravens feel there are 5 OTs better than the #1 ILB, they'll take that 5th OT before the ILB and they absolutely should. You gotta take the highest rated player on your board regardless of position and if it's the 5th one taken at a position it just means either that position is deep or the position without someone taken yet (ILB in this case) isn't as strong.

Exactly, but I'd like to add that's how good NFL teams draft. If Mosley or Dennard (he'll be the top player on my board! ) is rated higher than whoever is left at offensive tackle or wide receiver then I'd be absolutely fine with taking him like I stated in the draft prospects thread. If the 5th offensive tackle or 3rd wide receiver is the highest rated player on the board then that guy should be the selection. With how this draft stacks up and with as many needs as the Ravens have the overall best player available at 16 or 17 should match up with Baltimore pretty well so the stigma of "need" vs. "talent" probably won't be a big factor this year.

Trust me, fellas, I'm not saying that offensive line is not an issue. It's the preeminent issue. Furthermore, I would go as far as to say that tackle isn't the primary need on the line. I say that ONLY because I'm confident that Monroe stays a Ravens. And I also agree that the 3rd best option that fills a need is a solid draft selection. But is the 3rd best tackle superior to selecting what could be the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed? That was all I was asking of you to consider. Personally, I think Gradkowski was the weakest link and he should only serve as an interior backup for the remainder of his contract. Losing Birk to retirement meant that the Ravens lost about 200 games of experience. I'll never understate the importance of "the anchor" again. Gradkowski was a reach in the first place. I didn't even have him on my 352 player prospect sheet. And regardless of what the Ravens are saying in the press, he didn't get significantly better. Would I be happy if the Ravens selected Kouandjio, Lewan or Erving at #16/#17? Absolutely! Ogbuehi, Morgan Moses or Antonio Richardson? No. I'd rather the Ravens go in a different direction and draft a tackle or center in the following rounds. Could Ogbuehi, Moses or Richardson be the next Duane Brown? Of course they could. But history shows they are more likely to be the next Jeff Otah, Sam Baker or Roger Saffold. I'm just trying to keep it in context. I will always be a BPA guy in the early rounds. Especially the 1st.

And I completely understand how a NFL team sets up their draft board. I understand that the 10th best tackle could grade out higher than the #1 fullback. This year, I don't think the 5th best tackle grades out higher than the best MLB. And I'm not saying draft Mosley. It was just an example. Fortunately for the Ravens, I think there will be PLENTY of good options when they select at #16/#17. I just pray they don't reach. But then again, they rarely do.

Trust me, fellas, I'm not saying that offensive line is not an issue. It's the preeminent issue. Furthermore, I would go as far as to say that tackle isn't the primary need on the line. I say that ONLY because I'm confident that Monroe stays a Ravens. And I also agree that the 3rd best option that fills a need is a solid draft selection. But is the 3rd best tackle superior to selecting what could be the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed?

The only thing I will disagree with here is that Reed was seen as the 2nd best safety in his draft and Ray Lewis was considered the 4th best LB of his draft if you go by how the boards shook out. Just because a guy is not the first off the board at a particular position does not mean that's where his career will end up when things are said and done. I tend to agree with you that BPA is the way to go, but I've learned enough to trust Ozzie and co. that if they take an OT or a WR or a TE or a FS it's because they think that guy has the best chance of helping the Ravens become a better team._________________

Trust me, fellas, I'm not saying that offensive line is not an issue. It's the preeminent issue. Furthermore, I would go as far as to say that tackle isn't the primary need on the line. I say that ONLY because I'm confident that Monroe stays a Ravens. And I also agree that the 3rd best option that fills a need is a solid draft selection. But is the 3rd best tackle superior to selecting what could be the next Ray Lewis or Ed Reed? That was all I was asking of you to consider.

There is no "next Ed Reed" in this draft class. Not even close. Mosley is uber talented and could end up being a really good player but I don't think he can be labeled as a possible "next Ray Lewis" either. If there were those types of guys in this class that obviously makes it a different discussion. It's just so hard to really be that high on a prospect that isn't one of those once in a generation types. There's been a few guys in the recent past that have been elite safety prospects but none of them have lived up to the hype. The closest player to a prime Ed Reed in today's game is probably Earl Thomas. At linebacker it's a little different. Guys like Willis, Kuechly, and probably somebody else that I can't remember off the top of my head are elite and have lived up to their hype. Still, Mosley isn't quite the prospect those two were in my opinion.

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Personally, I think Gradkowski was the weakest link and he should only serve as an interior backup for the remainder of his contract. Losing Birk to retirement meant that the Ravens lost about 200 games of experience. I'll never understate the importance of "the anchor" again. Gradkowski was a reach in the first place. I didn't even have him on my 352 player prospect sheet. And regardless of what the Ravens are saying in the press, he didn't get significantly better.

Everybody agrees that Gradkowski is horrible and is probably worse at center than either Wagner or Reid would be a right tackle. The problem with that is there isn't a top center prospect this year. There might not even be anybody worth taking in the first two rounds. I'm betting that they sign a veteran in free agency and have him, Gradkowski, Shipley, and Jensen battle for the starting job (if the veteran they sign isn't somebody that would seem like a sure bet to start).

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Would I be happy if the Ravens selected Kouandjio, Lewan or Erving at #16/#17? Absolutely! Ogbuehi, Morgan Moses or Antonio Richardson? No. I'd rather the Ravens go in a different direction and draft a tackle or center in the following rounds. Could Ogbuehi, Moses or Richardson be the next Duane Brown? Of course they could. But history shows they are more likely to be the next Jeff Otah, Sam Baker or Roger Saffold. I'm just trying to keep it in context. I will always be a BPA guy in the early rounds. Especially the 1st.

Morgan Moses... too much hype with him. I would think the top offensive tackle group consists of Matthews, Kouandjio, Lewan, Robinson, and Erving. There's some debate about Zach Martin but I think he's almost a clone of Justin Pugh who was pretty much the lone exception to the terribleness of the Giants' offensive line. I'd lump him in with Ogbuehi and Richardson as other potential first round offensive tackles.

Ozzie has already shown he will take an offensive tackle in the first round even if he isn't the top rated guy at the position. You omitted the 2009 draft but that's where the Ravens took Oher, who was the 4th tackle taken in the first round. They even moved up to get him. I don't really care about how guys have panned out in prior drafts because they are the prospects being drafted this year. Each player is his own specific case and history of other guys has practically nothing to do with it. Of course some are going to bust, but that's the nature of the draft. Taking the best player available, even if he isn't the top rated player at his position while there's a other guy on the board who is the top rated player at his position, isn't reaching.

I omitted Oher intentionally. He was a reach and he never lived up to his first round potential. I wanted the Ravens to take Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt once Maclin was off the board. THAT'S the guy (Maclin) that I was pining for. IMO, Nicks and Britt both graded out higher than Oher. The entire planet knew that Heyward-Bey was a reach. But Al Davis had to have him because he's fast. Ooohhh. Maclin was the #2 WR in the draft that year. If you're gonna trade up, Oz, get him! Had the Ravens not traded up to get Oher, they could have stayed put and drafted Nicks or Britt (Who knows if they would have suffered similar injuries in Baltimore?) and traded up a few slots in the 2nd to select Loadholt. In regards to the history of previous drafts, if you don't know your history, then what do you have to base sound present and future decisions on? You learn from the past. It is imperative that we all learn from those who came before us. Regardless of whatever your craft may be. Otherwise, we are doomed to make the mistakes of our predecessors that failed. Should everyone forget the Herschel Walker trade? I bet the Redskins would like to forget about the RGIII trade right about now. But RGIII is going to be great! Maybe. I don't think he'll EVER live up to that #2 overall selection. I suppose I shouldn't reminisce about the past though (16 TDs, 23 turnovers in 2013). RG3 was the best player available! Was he? For a west coast offense? Bottom Line: Which players would you rather have? RG3 or Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, Rokevious Watkins, Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, Zac Stacy and the #2 overall pick in the 2014 draft? RG3 is no Luck.

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There is no "next Ed Reed" in this draft class.

We don't know that. If everybody knew Reed and Lewis were going to be two of the greatest players to ever play their positions, they wouldn't have been selected 24th and 26th overall, respectively. The thing that makes a player a "once in a generation type" is desire. Something that can't be measured. Unfortunately, none of us are privy to the interview process. We can't get a read on a prospect's drive. "Is the NFL a means of providing for your family or DO YOU LOVE THE GAME?" "Do you want to be the greatest (insert position here) ever?" That's the information I wish we were privileged to.

I agree that looking back on history can help to an extent, but the extent that you're proposing it helps isn't quite right.

History can show how big gambles (big trades, risky players, etc) can pay off/not pay off, but simply using it in terms of ranking amongst positions vs other positions doesn't work because it's not an apples to apples comparison. All rankings are subjective in the first place (the #4 OT on most boards could be a team's #2 OT and vice versa) and each season the level of what that ranking is can vary greatly. In 2007 the #1 WR was Calvin Johnson. The very next year, the #1 ranked WR was Donnie Avery. In your own example you were hoping that we took the #4/5 WR over the #3 OT which goes against what your original argument was (taking the #1 LB over a potential #4-5 OT). Rankings amongst positions mean very little -- it's all about how that prospect ranks against ALL other prospects and you take the highest rated player left. If the #8 WR is ranked higher overall than your #1 OT, you take the #8 WR and vice versa.

As for the "love of the game" aspect, it's a huge cliche. Most prospects are going to go into interviews with excitement, talk about their love of the game, etc. Then when that first paycheck comes, you see who they really are. But, the Ravens do a lot of due diligence to determine those things, specifically looking into a player's background. We tend to lean towards players with hardships that they had to overcome at a young age and how they prospered from that. Matt Elam had 2 brothers murdered, was going down a dangerous path but turned his life around. Torrey Smith basically raised his siblings due to a bad home life. We all know the Michael Oher story. Etc.

What people mean by "the next Ray Lewis/Ed Reed" is more about play style than pure drive. If drive is what mattered most, Mark Herzlich would be an All-Pro right now. It's about a physical skill set with the appropriate mindset to go along with it. Nobody in this draft has the skill set of a Ray Lewis or an Ed Reed in terms of what each showed in college. Ray Lewis only lasted as long as he did in the draft due to his size -- they said he wouldn't transition well due to being a smaller LB. I can't remember why Ed Reed fell to our pick, but then again FS don't typically go very high in drafts._________________

I omitted Oher intentionally. He was a reach and he never lived up to his first round potential.

Only in hindsight. Oher was most definitely not a reach at the time Baltimore took him. All we can go off of for this (or any current) draft is what we think we know now.

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I wanted the Ravens to take Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt once Maclin was off the board. THAT'S the guy (Maclin) that I was pining for. IMO, Nicks and Britt both graded out higher than Oher. The entire planet knew that Heyward-Bey was a reach. But Al Davis had to have him because he's fast. Ooohhh. Maclin was the #2 WR in the draft that year. If you're gonna trade up, Oz, get him! Had the Ravens not traded up to get Oher, they could have stayed put and drafted Nicks or Britt (Who knows if they would have suffered similar injuries in Baltimore?) and traded up a few slots in the 2nd to select Loadholt.

I was driving the Nicks bandwagon around here during that draft. He was the guy I wanted most with where the Ravens were picking.

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In regards to the history of previous drafts, if you don't know your history, then what do you have to base sound present and future decisions on? You learn from the past. It is imperative that we all learn from those who came before us. Regardless of whatever your craft may be. Otherwise, we are doomed to make the mistakes of our predecessors that failed. Should everyone forget the Herschel Walker trade? I bet the Redskins would like to forget about the RGIII trade right about now. But RGIII is going to be great! Maybe. I don't think he'll EVER live up to that #2 overall selection. I suppose I shouldn't reminisce about the past though (16 TDs, 23 turnovers in 2013). RG3 was the best player available! Was he? For a west coast offense? Bottom Line: Which players would you rather have? RG3 or Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Isaiah Pead, Rokevious Watkins, Alec Ogletree, Stedman Bailey, Zac Stacy and the #2 overall pick in the 2014 draft? RG3 is no Luck.

Flaccomania answered that pretty well. I'd like to add it's not an apples to apples comparison between players in different drafts too. You can't judge what teams should do and what players they should take in this draft because of what happened with players in previous drafts. It's an entirely different situation.

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We don't know that. If everybody knew Reed and Lewis were going to be two of the greatest players to ever play their positions, they wouldn't have been selected 24th and 26th overall, respectively. The thing that makes a player a "once in a generation type" is desire. Something that can't be measured. Unfortunately, none of us are privy to the interview process. We can't get a read on a prospect's drive. "Is the NFL a means of providing for your family or DO YOU LOVE THE GAME?" "Do you want to be the greatest (insert position here) ever?" That's the information I wish we were privileged to.

Again, Flaccomania made my point. Nobody in this class looks to be that elite play-making free safety with nearly unlimited range. Those kinds of factors are pretty much the only thing we as fans can look for when trying to make those kinds of statements. Like you said we can't get a feel for a prospect on a personal level. There are some clips or articles we can read but I don't think that's anything viable at all. Character concerns might be different because to some extent if a guy is getting in trouble or making trouble then that's pretty clear-cut.

All rankings are subjective in the first place (the #4 OT on most boards could be a team's #2 OT and vice versa) and each season the level of what that ranking is can vary greatly. In 2007 the #1 WR was Calvin Johnson. The very next year, the #1 ranked WR was Donnie Avery. In your own example you were hoping that we took the #4/5 WR over the #3 OT which goes against what your original argument was (taking the #1 LB over a potential #4-5 OT). Rankings amongst positions mean very little -- it's all about how that prospect ranks against ALL other prospects and you take the highest rated player left. If the #8 WR is ranked higher overall than your #1 OT, you take the #8 WR and vice versa.

Most prospects are going to go into interviews with excitement, talk about their love of the game, etc.

What people mean by "the next Ray Lewis/Ed Reed" is more about play style than pure drive. If drive is what mattered most, Mark Herzlich would be an All-Pro right now. It's about a physical skill set with the appropriate mindset to go along with it. Nobody in this draft has the skill set of a Ray Lewis or an Ed Reed in terms of what each showed in college.

I agree with you whole-heartedly, FM. Someone's #2 is often someone else's #4. It's all subjective. Quite often, a team's offensive or defensive scheme could determine which player is rated higher on their "big board". And you know the old saying, "It's not an exact science." In 2008, I didn't have Donnie Avery as the #1 WR. He was selected first, but I had him rated 8th on my board. Are you ready for some embarrassing honesty? Here was my list. 1) Limas Sweed. 2) Devin Thomas. 3) DeSean Jackson. 4) Malcolm Kelly. 5) Mario Manningham. 6) James Hardy. 7) Will Franklin. 8) Donnie Avery. Now... In my defense, that wasn't a good year for receivers. I saw Sweed as a late 1st/early 2nd. Ready for these two? Jordy Nelson? #13. Pierre Garcon #25. As you can see, I thought the Redskins had drafted 2 good receivers. They did too.

We all miss. And we all hit. Diamond Bull could tell you how much I was hoping the Ravens took Brian Brohm instead of Joe Flacco. But I also wanted the Ravens to select players like Jermichael Finley, Cliff Avril & Thomas DeCoud over former Ravens Tom Zbikowski, Oneil Cousins and Marcus Smith from the same draft.

This will be the 27th NFL draft I have evaluated, projected and will have watched (Yes... I'm old). 1988. The Raiders (my team until the Browns moved to Baltimore) had 3 first round picks. And they all actually panned out (That was before Al lost his marbles).

In regards to the physical skill set matching up with the mental make up, of course it has to be there. There are a lot of incredible athletes in the NFL who simply don't have the heart or the desire to run the extra mile, watch the extra hour of film, do all the things necessary to separate themselves from the other great athletes. We want Herzlich's mind at BC inside of Vernon Gholston's Ohio State body.

For the record (respectfully speaking), I thought the '09 draft was a great receiver draft and an average to below average OT draft. I was surprised by the Oher pick. I trusted Ozzie on that one. If I were to go off of my "big board", I would have had 4 WRs (Crabtree, Maclin, Nicks, Britt) above Oher (the #4 OT on my board) with Harvin rated behind Oher. D. Mason. M. Clayton and Harvin seemed too similar to have together at that time. And I'm still not sure how Jason Smith went off the reservation. Oof!

The psychological evaluation is in-depth. And we as fans are never privy to player interviews or responses. I remember Jason Taylor stating that the infamous N.Y. Giants psych exam took him over 2 hours. He said it was like taking the S.A.T. again. Questions like, "Do you wet the bed?", "Are you afraid of the dark?" and "Did you have a crush on your mother?" People have walked out of that examination for years. But to be a fly on the wall and read their actions... not just hear the lip service, but actually sit in and watch the interview would be great. Read their body language, you know? Are they full of it or do they love this game? I think you knew what I was getting at, FM. And I miss hearing people's Wonderlic scores too.

We all miss. And we all hit. Diamond Bull could tell you how much I was hoping the Ravens took Brian Brohm instead of Joe Flacco. But I also wanted the Ravens to select players like Jermichael Finley, Cliff Avril & Thomas DeCoud over former Ravens Tom Zbikowski, Oneil Cousins and Marcus Smith from the same draft.

This will be the 27th NFL draft I have evaluated, projected and will have watched (Yes... I'm old). 1988. The Raiders (my team until the Browns moved to Baltimore) had 3 first round picks. And they all actually panned out (That was before Al lost his marbles).

Don't you dare ever speak of this again!

Just because you want to implicate yourself as a Brian Brohm fanatic, don't you dare force me to relive that very poor analysis on my part.

Clearly, it's the old age getting to you. I would never support Brohm over Flacco. Nor was I a fan of Andre Woodson because I thought he had an "it" factor.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure I suck at evaluating QBs and I'm glad we have our franchise QB so that I don't have to do it again. I've never played the position and with that being my first draft that I actually evaluated... I'll just say I'm glad I was incredibly wrong there.

In terms of Harvin, I didn't like his durability, but I loved him as a player. He reminded me so much of Steve Smith. Both Harvin and Britt were my favorite receivers in that class. We didn't have much need for Harvin, but his ability to escape sure tackles was astounding. I had Britt rated higher though because I thought Harvin's durability was too big a gamble, along with our similar receivers. Plus I thought Britt's dominance with a bad QB was a testament to his receiving prowess and making his QB look better than his skill level. He had an absurd level of 100 yd receiving games. Think he had like 13 or 14 back to back IIRC. And with Britt, I think he was clearly the most dominant receiver in that class to play in the NFL... but the one thing I didn't account for in my analysis of Britt was the mental factor.

I remember Raven5255 talked later on in the process about how he knew people that talked about Britt not being very bright... or being a diva... or something. That's not news that you want to hear. But the Ravens did have a locker room with enough veterans that they might've been able to better strengthen Britt's character. But while Nicks was really good, I think it's still clear to me that Britt was definitely the more dominant player when he was healthy and not being a headcase.

To segway this back to this class... Jordan Matthews. Dude has equally bad QB play as Britt... has a buck-load of 100 yd receiving games to his credit. Similarly plays in a pro-style offense. And does it in the SEC against defenses that are usually on the stingier side in CFB. Certainly explains why he's my #1 receiver in this class. _________________