Kythnos wrote:
I love this paradox you would think that with the number of times that personal where abducted from the Enterprise their computer would keep a running count on the personal if nothing else.

It does-if anybody ever bothers to explicitly ASK for one.

I recently watched "Balance of Terror" on TV.com, and the romulan sensors where truly terrible as they could not find the Enterprise, after it turned off "most" of its systems.

It's been a while since I've seen 'Balance of Terror' but them not detecting a ship that was doing the closest a starship can get to 'running silent' (as this is Star Trek, the largest part of this would likely be shutting down everything that involves subspace) I'm not sure this says anything one way OR the other about romulan sensors.

And all the power is not off Gravity is still working, as are sensors.

There is obviously power available, but power generation may well have been off. There's several examples of the big E operating, including moving and fighting, on batteries. TWOK comes to mind.

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Kythnos wrote:I recently watched "Balance of Terror" on TV.com, and the romulan sensors where truly terrible as they could not find the Enterprise, after it turned off "most" of its systems. Very funny episode, as there are several "whispering" scenes which make you wonder why they are being very quite "sound does not travel in a vacuum. And all the power is not off Gravity is still working, as are sensors. (sadly I am not sure if this topic has a real answer, the writers make them as good or bad as they "need" them to be.)

The first bit about the Romulan sensors would actually be logical, since it would be a consequence of the cloaking field in operation (a factor which is ignored in all subsequent depictions of the cloaking device in Star Trek). The second bit, however, was ridiculous and a simple case of carrying the "destroyer v. submarine" metaphor a bit too far.

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Kythnos wrote:I love this paradox you would think that with the number of times that personal where abducted from the Enterprise their computer would keep a running count on the personal if nothing else.

I was going to bring up the massive retardedness of how the computer can instantly tell whether somebody's in the ship or not but isn't programmed to automatically alert the crew if people just mysteriously appear, but that seems more an issue of general design stupidity than the capabilities of the sensors themselves.

The Enterprise-D computer takes hours to do what Google can do in seconds, and couldn't come up with the link between Darmok, Jilad, and Tenagra.

And what episode would you have been watching when this supposedly happens?

Troi and Data search the database for "Darmok" (the entirely linguistic database compiled on that sector of space, containing god knows how many hundreds of cultures) and get 40-odd results. they then ask about Tanagra (just about Tanagra) and get another batch of results. Troi asks to cross-reference the databases... and gets the data on Shantil 3. Where, in all of this, did the computer fail? Was it supposed to magically know it needed to cross-reference two independent search terms? How would you have it come up with the link when the words existed independently on nearly fifty planets?

...and what does this have to do with sensors? Moreover, what does you little stock "ZOMG RED SCARE" rant have to do with anything?

Given the nova apparently happened in another system and was not Romulus's star one can only assume it wasn't your average nova, otherwise I would expect them to have plenty of time to evacuate, at least.

IIRC by the time everyone realises that Romulus is in immediate danger it's too late. Nero initially sincerely believes Spock and the Vulcans can stop the blasts before it's too late; when the Vulcans refuse to offer the material he races back to Romulus but he's too late.

I do wish they would have given Spock's mind meld flashback just one additional scene showing that the Vulcan's refused to offer the material and Nero rushing back, I think that would have vastly underscored his motivations for the audience.

I agree. "You tried to save my world but didn't quite succeed, while we apparently had no plan of our own and I couldn't even be arsed to bother transporting my own wife off the planet" is not the greatest justification for an arch-nemesis.

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Bounty wrote:Troi and Data search the database for "Darmok" (the entirely linguistic database compiled on that sector of space, containing god knows how many hundreds of cultures) and get 40-odd results. they then ask about Tanagra (just about Tanagra) and get another batch of results. Troi asks to cross-reference the databases... and gets the data on Shantil 3. Where, in all of this, did the computer fail? Was it supposed to magically know it needed to cross-reference two independent search terms? How would you have it come up with the link when the words existed independently on nearly fifty planets?

At the risk of nitpicking, the computer doesn't cross-reference the two until Data notices the common Shantril 3 reference between the two searches and then asks for the computer to cross-reference that with the previous search. Why Troi and Data didn't ask the computer to simply run a search with both terms in the first place (since they were part of a single phrase for which the two were trying to determine the origin), I have no idea. Either it was a failure on the characters' parts in phrasing a simple boolean search (darmok + tanagra) or they didn't think the computer could handle it without them breaking it into baby-steps.

This is getting off-topic though, except for raising once again the general point that it's sometimes open to question whether faults lie with the equipment or the people using them...

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When the Enterprise's sensors can't find a human lost on the planet, Picard orders the ship into a lower orbit. This is noted as giving them a 4% increase in sensor efficiency.

Searching for the lost human, Data notes that the terrain is full of sinkholes and caverns and he may have fallen into one. He also notes a high concentration of thallium in the soil/rock and says that they may interfere with the ship's sensors.

From what I've seen of posts so far people tend to bring up specific instances, many of which are contradictory, without proposing a means of resolving the contradictions. This has been confusing for me as a reader. I offer the following hypotheses in hopes of clearing up some of the contradictions/confusion:

1. Internal sensors and tricorders work about the same way that analogous current technology does.

2. Sensors for detecting people on a planet or for detecting other starships work about the same way that applicable current technology does.

3. Variation from the above two hypotheses is explainable as a failing by the writers, a failing by the characters, or by differences in technology between the present and the technology level when the episode/movie was written.

I am still somewhat uncertain about the detection of objects in situations where the speed of light would be a factor such as in the Argus Array or in the detection of ships several light years away. Is there a plausible way for faster than light sensors to work aside from relying on subspace or some other technobabble explanation?

Multiverse wrote:I am still somewhat uncertain about the detection of objects in situations where the speed of light would be a factor such as in the Argus Array or in the detection of ships several light years away. Is there a plausible way for faster than light sensors to work aside from relying on subspace or some other technobabble explanation?

In a word, no. The explanations for FTL anything are pure handwavium. The only hope a writer has is to simply show the sensor working in a consistent manner each time it's used so that the audience swallows it, like a magic trick.

Since Star Trek has based so much of its technology on the existence of the fictional subspace plane, including communications, any explanation of FTL sensors used in the Trekverse must include material on subspace to be consistent with their other technologies.

When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
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People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)

Ted C wrote:
...
Basically, locating the platinum in "Angel One" was like using a metal detector to find a needle in a haystack. Similarly, a metal detector would not necessarily be as useful for finding a needle in a city park ["Survivors"] unless you already had a good idea where to look.

Tried to find the volume of a Lagrange point, and NASA says the Sun-Earth points are 50 million kilometers wide.

So, if this example is ever used, it might be interesting trivia to include a little on how Lagrange points are located and size determined.

Lagrange points are also gravity wells, so if 'Trek sensors are gravity dependent beyond line-of-sight, maybe that could help hide a ship, as might space debris collected there.

I don't even know where to start. Not only is this threadomancy, not only are LaGrange points not gravity wells (quite the opposite in fact) but you don't have to actively detect them given they're nothing more than positions in space where the gravitational forces of the surrounding massive bodies cancel each other out which is something we can calculate today.

'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

Not. You obviously don't know what a gravity well is. Hint: the absence of gravity is something of a giveaway.

'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'