I'd like to ask you all a question, especially (but not only) the more experienced feral raiders here. We've discussed back and forth about our top-tier talents, that DoC is theoretically the highest dps but requires a *lot* of skill and works best on Patchwerk-style fights... That HotW isn't as good anymore after the nerf, but can be helpful in situations like Elegon waves (adds), provided you have an int weapon... etc etc...

... but I'd like to know what talent *you* are using (and if you swap them around, when and why?) and what your reasons are. Also, if you for example go with Heart of the Wild, whether you still reforge to Mastery over Crit and Haste. Or what other talents you use with them, like DoC + NS, or NV + Incarnation.

I'd just like to hear what the pros are doing, no reason other than the fact that I'm a little insecure right now. I just joined a different guild, one a good bit more advanced than my old guild, and also 25man. After my first raid with them, I'm a little... depressed. My dps is horrible compared to theirs, and I'm still struggling with DoC although I haven't had that much practice and know I'd get it down if I stuck with it. Thing is, I'm on trial and if my dps doesn't improve and soon, I'm afraid I won't be accepted. So... hmph.

-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

I use doc - and there are a few reasons I prefer it over the other two - but the main reason is that I just like the way the rotation feels with it. It's more complex, but I actually enjoy that.

I honestly don't think doc requires as much skill as people think it does; I just think it requires an impossible level of skill to perform perfectly in real fights.

I still make dozens of mistakes and I rank in the top 20's on nearly every fight. I find that managing boss mechanics (lowering downtime or lowering time spent in lower dps phases) generally has a much larger impact on my dps.

I don't do any talent swapping (outside of pvp) for my main dps talents (ns, sotf, doc), as no fight has really necessitated it. They all seem to have phases where nv or hotw would be nice, but a large portion of the fight is still very good with doc.

If you're looking for advice on getting the doc rotation down, I highly recommend using the Ovale script. It's how I got used to the new rotation, and it's incredibly good at what it does - I tested it on H Feng and ranked #2. Though you do have to maximize a lot of things outside of the scope of Ovale, it's still a very good base if you're struggling to rank on fights (in fact, I'm positive if you just follow the Ovale script, you will rank on almost every fight.)

I still use HoTW on most of the fights out there, and I recommend you should too.

When you're looking at a trial, unless his/her dps is ridiculously low, the things that stick out most in your head are the number of times they've done something stupid and it's far far easier to not do something stupid when you're not freaking out over your doc rotation.

The damage difference is negligible too, like on the order of 3% for at least 30% more stuff you need to watch for in combat. Just not worth it.

Also, you look really good when you hotw a tranquility and save the raid.

I'm using HotW. I too like the added utility of being able to drop the buffed tranq on the raid to save the day. We got a first kill on a boss last week thanks to that utility. Additionally, as was posted before, I'm only simming out in my current gear about 3k dps behind HotW. While that is not negligible, it isn't enough for me to want to make the jump to DoC just yet as we still have a long way to go learning fights, and HotW is a little more forgiving there too.

HotW except for the 1st boss in HoF, since with the mind control you lose the ability to cast HotW in the last phase to help with the heal.I've pretty much given up the wrath-spam, but in intense damage situations, HotW+caster weapon+tranq+rejuv-spam is a lot of help for the raid.Also, I like the +6% all stats, stamina included, so it's some extra HP for free.

I'm kinda in love with DoC so what I think I'll do is this: For the next few weeks, I'll go with HotW - like you said, it's less stressful and it'll give me breathing room to focus on mechanics. I used to raid 25man, but with my healing priest and I'm a little thrown at how different it is as melee. So I need to concentrate on mechanics a lot more (mainly because I often don't see exactly where my character is, due to overload of spell effects around the boss).

Once I'm a little more comfortable with all that, I'll switch back to DoC and work on optimising that

-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

I went HotW today, and I can only say, I'm so glad I did (at least for the time being). We started on Heart of Fear and I needed all my concentration for mechanics! I'm happy to say that I'm not bottom of the dps anymore (not far from it, but it's an improvement, especially as I'm still wielding a 463 weapon) and I saved the day at the end of Blade Lord with a nice HotW-buffed Tranquility. Thanks Konungr for the help on my weapon/set-switching macro, btw!

I might make it through that trial after all

-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

I raid 25M, and I play (mostly) DoC. It truly is the top DPS talent, and next to that, the constant stream of self healing it provides is quite amazing. Between a healing rain on the floor, a stack of healthstones, LotP and DoC, you're mostly fine on your own.

I did switch to HotW for our first Blade Lord kill, cause we would die tornado running so a well timed Tranq + Rejuv spam while running saved that kill. I also switch to HotW for Wind Lord, cause we use the 'AoE them down' tactic and hurricane is great.

Sibylle, good luck on your trial. Focus on mechanics first, DPS second. After a few wipes, when you get how the fight works, your DPS will increase naturally. Take Will of Emperor for example, the first time you try dancing, you'll do horrible. Then you practice, find the rhythm, and fire your first Opportunistic Strike. Then it sort of 'clicks' in your head and you're able to get those Strikes almost every time. Then you wonder, how did I think that was hard before? And then you find yourself getting Strikes while maintaining your rotation (nearly) as well as if you were standing still. And finally you find yourself topping the meters. It's a process.

Thanks guys, for the support! I went through the exact same thing when I joined my first raiding guild last year, but this now is a huge step up in difficulty. These people are just so GOOD! And I have to say, challenging myself in this way is like cocaine. I'm completely wired after a raid, took me ages last night to go to sleep

Since Cerise mentioned the Emperor "dance": that one's my bane in this tier! I was actually going to post a topic about this and kind of forgot, so thanks for the reminder

-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

I don't have it here exactly, as I'm at work (and not supposed to be on the internet... ahem ), but I made two macros: One casts HotW plus swaps out the equipment set (basically, same equipment only with int weapon + offhand), the other shapeshifts me back to cat and equips the main equipment set (with agil weapon).

Make any sense?

-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

TBH I've decided to stick to HotW for good. We've managed to finally down Elegon HC with me hero tranq-healing with my second hotw during the burn phase. Plus the same situation pushed us on this week's Windlord kill. It's good to have backup plans.