I listened to it [no tv]. I enjoyed it. A good amount of bully pulpit in that speech.

Yeah, that guy who yelled, "You lie!" — what a fine example he is. He has since apologized [ETA: I missed your post] but I was shocked, never heard anything like that during a presidential speech to congress. Wow.

Let's hope that the vacuum in the Republican party leadership is filled, and soon. We have a lot to do, and at this point they're just flat out shirking their responsibilities.

ETA2: I heard that that speech should appeal mostly to moderates. [And I've had suspicions that I might be a moderate for quite a while now, even though I lean left.]

So if people on the left and people on the right aren't happy, that leaves the rest of us, and that is a really large group of people. Sounds good to me!

Trenell, we were talking about that at work. Can you imagine that conversation? How many times do you think Rahm called him MF?

I could picture Obama in the room trying not to laugh.

Originally Posted by BB

Let's see....It's okay for Rahm to call Joe a MF, but NOT okay for Joe to call the President a liar.

I think I get it.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

Um, you've no (and no one else on this thread either) idea what Rahm Emanuel said to that man other than what was reported (if anything else). So get all googley-eyed you want. This is just distraction from the fact that Wilson was wrong. What you do know is the representative from South Carolina showed his ass, realized this was political suicide (because he's acting as out of control and uncivilized as many people have been at those town meetings), and started backpedalling.

The man was as disrespectful to Obama as the shoe-throwing reporter was to Bush. Believer it or not, that was not the time or the place to call the POTUS a liar. Maybe later on FOX news would have been more appropriate.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

Trenell, we were talking about that at work. Can you imagine that conversation? How many times do you think Rahm called him MF?

I could picture Obama in the room trying not to laugh.

Originally Posted by BB

Let's see....It's okay for Rahm to call Joe a MF, but NOT okay for Joe to call the President a liar.

I think I get it.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

Um, you've no (and no one else on this thread either) idea what Rahm Emanuel said to that man other than what was reported (if anything else). So get all googley-eyed you want. This is just distraction from the fact that Wilson was wrong. What you do know is the representative from South Carolina showed his ass, realized this was political suicide (because he's acting as out of control and uncivilized as many people have been at those town meetings), and started backpedalling.

The man was as disrespectful to Obama as the shoe-throwing reporter was to Bush. Believer it or not, that was not the time or the place to call the POTUS a liar. Maybe later on FOX news would have been more appropriate.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

Um, I totally agree with you. I doubt very much if Rahm called Joe anything at all. I'm sure he was gracious in accepting Wilson's apology.

I was simply commenting on the poster who thought Rahm might have called Wilson a MF.

Trenell, we were talking about that at work. Can you imagine that conversation? How many times do you think Rahm called him MF?

I could picture Obama in the room trying not to laugh.

Originally Posted by BB

Let's see....It's okay for Rahm to call Joe a MF, but NOT okay for Joe to call the President a liar.

I think I get it.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

There is a certain protocol and decorum that should be maintained when the president is speaking in a formal house address. It's not the same as Rahm calling someone a MF in a non-formal setting. Do you not see the difference? It's not against the law for Wilson to make those accusations...but it sure made him look like a bitter low-class idiot. He will pay the price politically...or not.

Trenell, we were talking about that at work. Can you imagine that conversation? How many times do you think Rahm called him MF?

I could picture Obama in the room trying not to laugh.

Originally Posted by BB

Let's see....It's okay for Rahm to call Joe a MF, but NOT okay for Joe to call the President a liar.

I think I get it.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

There is a certain protocol and decorum that should be maintained when the president is speaking in a formal house address. It's not the same as Rahm calling someone a MF in a non-formal setting. Do you not see the difference? It's not against the law for Wilson to make those accusations...but it sure made him look like a bitter low-class idiot. He will pay the price politically...or not.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I guess you don't remember dems hissing at President Bush then do you?

Let's see....It's okay for Rahm to call Joe a MF, but NOT okay for Joe to call the President a liar.

I think I get it.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

There is a certain protocol and decorum that should be maintained when the president is speaking in a formal house address. It's not the same as Rahm calling someone a MF in a non-formal setting. Do you not see the difference? It's not against the law for Wilson to make those accusations...but it sure made him look like a bitter low-class idiot. He will pay the price politically...or not.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I guess you don't remember dems hissing at President Bush then do you?

Originally Posted by Kitschy

So you're justifying Joe Wilson's behavior. Oh, ok.

Even he is not doing that.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

Let's see....It's okay for Rahm to call Joe a MF, but NOT okay for Joe to call the President a liar.

I think I get it.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

Um, you've no (and no one else on this thread either) idea what Rahm Emanuel said to that man other than what was reported (if anything else). So get all googley-eyed you want. This is just distraction from the fact that Wilson was wrong. What you do know is the representative from South Carolina showed his ass, realized this was political suicide (because he's acting as out of control and uncivilized as many people have been at those town meetings), and started backpedalling.

The man was as disrespectful to Obama as the shoe-throwing reporter was to Bush. Believer it or not, that was not the time or the place to call the POTUS a liar. Maybe later on FOX news would have been more appropriate.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

Um, I totally agree with you. I doubt very much if Rahm called Joe anything at all. I'm sure he was gracious in accepting Wilson's apology.

I was simply commenting on the poster who thought Rahm might have called Wilson a MF.

Originally Posted by Kitschy

And distracting from the issue at hand.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

There is a certain protocol and decorum that should be maintained when the president is speaking in a formal house address. It's not the same as Rahm calling someone a MF in a non-formal setting. Do you not see the difference? It's not against the law for Wilson to make those accusations...but it sure made him look like a bitter low-class idiot. He will pay the price politically...or not.

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I guess you don't remember dems hissing at President Bush then do you?

Originally Posted by Kitschy

So you're justifying Joe Wilson's behavior. Oh, ok.

Even he is not doing that.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

Actually no, I agree that Wilson should have aired his grievance outside the chamber. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy.

You should try comparing apples to apples. If that's all you've got, you don't have much. I don't recall any senators or representatives screaming at Bush that he was a liar during his speeches to Congress.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

You should try comparing apples to apples. If that's all you've got, you don't have much. I don't recall anyone screaming at Bush that he was a liar during his speeches to Congress.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

I don't believe anyone did. I said dems were hissing at Bush.

TED KOPPEL (ABC host): When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security, there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far. And they did something that, apparently, no one at this table has ever heard before. They booed. [ABC, Nightline, 2/2/05; Koppel's panel consisted of former Bush adviser Mary Matalin, former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein, and former Clinton speechwriter Michael Waldman]

JOHN ROBERTS (CBS White House correspondent): At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I've never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address. [CBS, post-speech coverage, 2/2/05]

I have to say Joe Wilson's outburst was not only disrespectful but a symptom of greater peril. Are we taking ourselves back to the days when congressmen (yes, men cause there werent any women in there) were dueling and beating people with walking sticks on the floor?

I think the major issue with Obama's handling of this is he's trying way too hard to be bipartisan. Seriously.....8 years of Bush and Republicans really weren't giving 2 ****s about making sure everyone had a little something they wanted.

In 5, 10, 20, years when baby boomers are all lining up for their medicare and active tax payers are unable to support this ish, people will look back and say "why the hell didn't we make drastic changes when we still could." This is not a case of if it ain't broke don't fix it. The system is broken and falling to pieces. Will someone, anyone take the damn reins and get some fundamental things done?

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

You should try comparing apples to apples. If that's all you've got, you don't have much. I don't recall anyone screaming at Bush that he was a liar during his speeches to Congress.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

I don't believe anyone did. I said dems were hissing at Bush.

TED KOPPEL (ABC host): When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security, there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far. And they did something that, apparently, no one at this table has ever heard before. They booed. [ABC, Nightline, 2/2/05; Koppel's panel consisted of former Bush adviser Mary Matalin, former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein, and former Clinton speechwriter Michael Waldman]

JOHN ROBERTS (CBS White House correspondent): At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I've never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address. [CBS, post-speech coverage, 2/2/05]

Originally Posted by Kitschy

That is classless and disrespectful, but again it's comparing apples to oranges.

Now if you're going to compare dems booing and disrupting a speech Bush is giving, and repubs holding up packets of papers and waving them, shouting, and one wearing a "what bill" sign to dirupt a speech Obama is giving.....now you're comparing birds of a feather.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer."

I have to say Joe Wilson's outburst was not only disrespectful but a symptom of greater peril. Are we taking ourselves back to the days when congressmen (yes, men cause there werent any women in there) were dueling and beating people with walking sticks on the floor?

I think the major issue with Obama's handling of this is he's trying way too hard to be bipartisan. Seriously.....8 years of Bush and Republicans really weren't giving 2 ****s about making sure everyone had a little something they wanted.

In 5, 10, 20, years when baby boomers are all lining up for their medicare and active tax payers are unable to support this ish, people will look back and say "why the hell didn't we make drastic changes when we still could." This is not a case of if it ain't broke don't fix it. The system is broken and falling to pieces. Will someone, anyone take the damn reins and get some fundamental things done?

Originally Posted by curlyarca

It most certainly is a symptom of greater peril.

It is easy to post your thoughts on a website like NC.com that appears in practice to be extremely left leaning. Demographically women, and minorities support leftist causes - and NC.com is an over representation of both demographic. (and before you accuse me of being racist, I am married to a minority and have racially mixed children in racially mixed marriages with racially mixed grandchildren. )

What you may forget is that there is a great uprising of emotion among the right in this nation.

Obama is stirring the pot. Be prepared for the peril to come. Don't hide your head in the sand and think that because everyone here seems to agree with you, that that is the pulse of the nation.

It is tense.

I am 53 years old. I haven't seen this amount of hostility among the American public ever. Even in the late 60's and 70's there wasn't this level of incivility except among the disenchanted youth.

You should try comparing apples to apples. If that's all you've got, you don't have much. I don't recall anyone screaming at Bush that he was a liar during his speeches to Congress.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

I don't believe anyone did. I said dems were hissing at Bush.

TED KOPPEL (ABC host): When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security, there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far. And they did something that, apparently, no one at this table has ever heard before. They booed. [ABC, Nightline, 2/2/05; Koppel's panel consisted of former Bush adviser Mary Matalin, former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein, and former Clinton speechwriter Michael Waldman]

JOHN ROBERTS (CBS White House correspondent): At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I've never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address. [CBS, post-speech coverage, 2/2/05]

Originally Posted by Kitschy

That is classless and disrespectful, but again it's comparing apples to oranges.

Now if you're going to compare dems booing and disrupting a speech Bush is giving, and repubs holding up packets of papers and waving them, shouting, and one wearing a "what bill" sign to dirupt a speech Obama is giving.....now you're comparing birds of a feather.

Originally Posted by curlyarca

When the entire Democratic or Republican delegation does it, itís OK. When a lone Republican does it, itís not OK.