Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 1096145

I believe my long term depression began due to endogenous (chemical) factors as it occurred simultaneously with a number of physical symptoms which were subsequently diagnosed as an autoimmune disorder. Doctors believed the depression was a separate issue and I could not convince them I had been feeling just fine before concurrent onset of all symptoms. These symptoms, physical & depression, were what sent me to the Doctors to figure out what was going on. My self esteem was good, life had been going well. Then suddenly an inexplicable plummet in mood plus increasing physical symptoms. Anxiety crept in subsequently.

In more recent years, ongoing situational stresses have deepened the depression. I cannot tolerate Antidepressants - hypersensitive to side effects.

I've taken Mindfulness programs and continue a group and personal practice for several years. It seemed to help at first, but once the situational stresses worsened, the improvement reversed. I continue to practice anyway.

I'm interested in hearing experiences of others who have tried Mindfulness or other forms of meditation.

In reply to Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression?, posted by Mtom on December 2, 2017, at 17:05:14

I worked a lot with a DBT therapist, doing various mindfulness exercises, including, but not limited to, meditation. I found they helped me COPE with depression (I learned to let thoughts and plans for suicide go), but they didn't boost my mood. But, for me, coping was very important because I become so suicidal when depressed. My DBT therapist urged me to just remain neutral about my depression; if all I could do was lay in bed, then that was all I could do - not to begin the destructive self-talk - this will never get better, I can't stand this, etc. So it didn't make the depression go away (time and drugs have helped a lot), but it did make it more tolerable, for me.

> I believe my long term depression began due to endogenous (chemical) factors as it occurred simultaneously with a number of physical symptoms which were subsequently diagnosed as an autoimmune disorder. Doctors believed the depression was a separate issue and I could not convince them I had been feeling just fine before concurrent onset of all symptoms. These symptoms, physical & depression, were what sent me to the Doctors to figure out what was going on. My self esteem was good, life had been going well. Then suddenly an inexplicable plummet in mood plus increasing physical symptoms. Anxiety crept in subsequently.> > In more recent years, ongoing situational stresses have deepened the depression. I cannot tolerate Antidepressants - hypersensitive to side effects.> > I've taken Mindfulness programs and continue a group and personal practice for several years. It seemed to help at first, but once the situational stresses worsened, the improvement reversed. I continue to practice anyway.> > I'm interested in hearing experiences of others who have tried Mindfulness or other forms of meditation.

In reply to Re: Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression?, posted by baseball55 on December 3, 2017, at 18:36:31

> I worked a lot with a DBT therapist, doing various mindfulness exercises, including, but not limited to, meditation. I found they helped me COPE with depression (I learned to let thoughts and plans for suicide go), but they didn't boost my mood. But, for me, coping was very important because I become so suicidal when depressed. My DBT therapist urged me to just remain neutral about my depression; if all I could do was lay in bed, then that was all I could do - not to begin the destructive self-talk - this will never get better, I can't stand this, etc. So it didn't make the depression go away (time and drugs have helped a lot), but it did make it more tolerable, for me.

That TOTALLY describes how I deal with my depression (bipolar). I'm glad you found something that helps you.

In reply to Re: Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression? » baseball55, posted by SLS on December 5, 2017, at 17:24:02

> > That's part of it. Another part is to recognize the lies depression tells and that intrusive thoughts can be ignored rather than being taken seriously.> > Do you feel that CBT has any worth? I don't know about CBT. I read, t my therapist's suggestion, a book with a CBT focus (can't recall the name) and I found it very unhelpful. It talked about depression as mostly situational responses to cognitive distortions - i.e., "my boss looked at me funny, I am a f**k-up," "my friend didn't return my call, she must think I', a f**k-up."

I had those kinds of thoughts, but they didn't make me depressed. If anything they gave me motivation to better myself. CBT tends to start from the premise that depression, anxiety, etc, are mostly caused by cognitive distortions, but my bouts of depression haven't been associated with cognitive distortions. I don't lie in bed thinking, I am a f**k up, nobody likes me, etc. I actually have pretty high self-esteem.

So I don't thing much of CBT. DBT is different The focus is less on cognition and more on behaviors that worsen/lessen depression. Like "doing the opposite" - forcing yourself to get out of bed and take a shower when you don't want to. Doing mindful activities - like walking back and forth counting your steps to focus your mind on something other than your mood.

In reply to Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression?, posted by Mtom on December 2, 2017, at 17:05:14

Hi,I find that meditation is bad for my depression. The activity is so similar to the major symptoms of depression for me-- rumination and physical inactivity. I need to get out of that rut, not encourage it or think it's leading somewhere good. It never does.

In reply to Re: Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression? » SLS, posted by baseball55 on December 5, 2017, at 21:19:45

I don't think it is necessary to have poor self-esteem in order for CBT to work. CBT has the advantage of time. It works from the top down, so that the negative feelings that result from cognitive distortions can be changed almost immediately. Depression (MDD and BD) produces a never-ending series of cognitive distortions independent how one defines themselves (high self-esteem). Without interception, these thoughts and feelings can erode self-esteem, so one does not have to have low self-esteem to begin with.

Core beliefs are changed as a consequence of the interception and recognition of negative automatic thoughts. Negative thoughts are replaced by positive ones, and the effect trickles down to the core beliefs via intermediate beliefs. The need for years of psychodynamic therapy to change core beliefs are obviated. Of course, psychodynamic therapy has very important uses just as CBT cannot treat all psychiatric conditions.

In reply to Re: Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression? » baseball55, posted by SLS on December 7, 2017, at 16:00:46

> A few people here who were being treated with psychodynamic therapy reported feeling worse using CBT.> > Any thoughts as to why?> > > - ScottDon't know. My psychiatrist, who does psychodynamic therapy, recommends a lot of his patients to do CBT as well. In my case, he wanted me to do DBT, just because of the intensity and overwhelming nature of my suicidality. He finds they complement one another.

Maybe for someone in the midst of intense dynamic therapy working on difficult interpersonal issues, CBT seems superficial and judgmental. But I don't know. I never saw a CBT therapist. But DBT uses some of the same techniques. I found that the combination of dynamic and DBT worked very well for me. I am eternally grateful to both therapists.

In reply to Who's tried Mindfulness Meditation for Depression?, posted by Mtom on December 2, 2017, at 17:05:14

Distress tolerance from DBT helps enormously. If I am too depressed, meditation makes me cry. It's like staring at trauma, a deep hole. If I'm feeling better, meditation is refreshing. My therapist has told me that this is not a failure (not being able to meditate when very depressed), and an act of kindness to myself is to be gentle and avoid head-on introspection.

MCBT is roomier than CBT, and I like that it encourages tolerance by avoiding combat with feelings-- and reinforces that I am not depression, interrupting any identification I tend to make when overwhelmed.

Not only do I suffer depression, I seem wired to flood with emotion. Honestly, it's a curse, and while I don't want to be a psychopath, sometimes I imagine the freedom beyond strong emotion.