The point has been made over and over, sure the top 1% have seen their income go up, but their has also been a lot of transition within that "top 1%." "The top 1%" isn't one set group of people, as the Left like to pretend. They basically are portraying this as if one group is preying upon the rest of society and prospering by it, but the truth of the matter is that the top 1% is a transient group and that group of the people doing the best is just outperforming everyone else.

Who has said that the top 1% (or any subset of our population) is always the same? I know I sure didn't and I haven't seen that reported anywhere; so please provide some source that states the top 1% or any other section is exactly the same as it always has been.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

The Left seeks to bring them back down to our level, but not by raising everyone else up to that level, but by bringing them down. That just seems silly to me. It's like putting ankel weights on Olympians to even out the competition.

Says who? Is it possible that this is 'your' interpretation? I know I haven't heard anyone saying they want to bring anyone down; I have, however, heard that in order to help balance the current, existing deficit (which is the fault & responsibility of everyone, no one party owns it) people suggesting to cut spending AND raise taxes.

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November 28th, 2011, 3:47 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12488

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

slybri19 wrote:

"When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic."

Quote by: Benjamin Franklin

Which begs the question as to just how it was ever legal for Congress to purchase/trade stocks for companies where the legislation they decide/rule/vote on can directly effect...and yet insider trading is illegal for most of us...

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November 28th, 2011, 3:49 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

I'll address the call for student loan forgiveness:

(Note: this is coming from someone who worked 30-40 hours per week every week during the school year and 40 hours per week in the summers)

The entire thing is a racket. And we need some form of reform/forgiveness. Not completely forgiveness of debts, but there has been tremendous predatory lending going on. How is it legal to loan an 18 year old kid $100k with no set plans of paying it back?

No one would lend an 18 year old kid out of HS a $100k mortgage. Society doesn't even let someone at that age get drunk because we don't think they are responsible enough for it. So why do we let them set themselves up for a form of indentured servitude? How is that these loan companies are less selective than the colleges themselves?

This wouldn't be an issue if you could discharge these loans in bankruptcy. But you can't. You absolutely should be able to.

If the student loans were dischargable, then these companies wouldn't lend sociology majors $100k for a degree they spend five years on and there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

At the root of this is the government, which encouraged this lending and guaranteed some of the loans--very similar to the housing debacle.

Going forward, student loans should be able to be dumped in bankruptcy court. All of those kids who took $100k loans for worthless degrees shouldn't get off scot-free, but they should get a new deal where they are not liable for the full amount. Forcing them to pay it just cripples their economic growth going forward and makes us all worse off because now you have 23,24,25,26 year olds living at home and not delaying their societal advancement because they only get a job for $12/hour and they have to pay student loans of $300 a month to a company which should have never loaned the money in the first place.

November 28th, 2011, 9:00 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4180Location: Davison Mi

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

TheRealWags wrote:

slybri19 wrote:

"When the people find they can vote themselves money,that will herald the end of the republic."

Quote by: Benjamin Franklin

Which begs the question as to just how it was ever legal for Congress to purchase/trade stocks for companies where the legislation they decide/rule/vote on can directly effect...and yet insider trading is illegal for most of us...

isnt that called insider trading and considered illegal?

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

November 30th, 2011, 2:28 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

Blueskies wrote:

I'll address the call for student loan forgiveness:

(Note: this is coming from someone who worked 30-40 hours per week every week during the school year and 40 hours per week in the summers)

The entire thing is a racket. And we need some form of reform/forgiveness. Not completely forgiveness of debts, but there has been tremendous predatory lending going on. How is it legal to loan an 18 year old kid $100k with no set plans of paying it back?

No one would lend an 18 year old kid out of HS a $100k mortgage. Society doesn't even let someone at that age get drunk because we don't think they are responsible enough for it. So why do we let them set themselves up for a form of indentured servitude? How is that these loan companies are less selective than the colleges themselves?

This wouldn't be an issue if you could discharge these loans in bankruptcy. But you can't. You absolutely should be able to.

If the student loans were dischargable, then these companies wouldn't lend sociology majors $100k for a degree they spend five years on and there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

At the root of this is the government, which encouraged this lending and guaranteed some of the loans--very similar to the housing debacle.

Going forward, student loans should be able to be dumped in bankruptcy court. All of those kids who took $100k loans for worthless degrees shouldn't get off scot-free, but they should get a new deal where they are not liable for the full amount. Forcing them to pay it just cripples their economic growth going forward and makes us all worse off because now you have 23,24,25,26 year olds living at home and not delaying their societal advancement because they only get a job for $12/hour and they have to pay student loans of $300 a month to a company which should have never loaned the money in the first place.

NO ONE lends an 18 year old kid $100k. Harvard doesn't cost $100k your first year. Yearly distributions average around $15k. You have to be in school at least four years (so the borrower would now be 22 years old) to rack up that kind of debt.

And again... The ONLY reason the loan companies lend this kind of cash is because the GOVERNMENT REGULATES them, gives them SPECIAL PRIVILEGES, and EXEMPTS THESE LOANS FROM BANKRUPTCY.

This isn't "predatory lending" this is government regulation running a muck. And what happens... Wha-la! You have a subsect of a population with a TON more money to spend, and SUDDENLY, and SUPRISINGLY, tuition goes through the roof... WOW!!! HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN!!!?!?!?!?!?

November 30th, 2011, 2:50 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

Wags... Did you see the latest on the OWS crowd in LA? They were asked what they were protesting against... The answers were typical "We're protesting against the top 1% for 'taking all of our money'," "We're protesting against the banks," and my favorite "We're protesting to get our student loans paid for."

The LA protest left the park near City Hall in shambles, it took 1,400 cops hours to remove them, some 200 people were arrested, the ramshackle housing that they were living in (basically tarps and sticks and old nasty blankets) were left behind causing a major clean-up undertaking, and the grounds were ruined. The grass is now dirt, plants were trampled, etc. It will be a couple of years before that park looks decent again. What a joke.

Did you go down to "Occupy Detroit"? I did, nothign but the same.

November 30th, 2011, 2:54 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12488

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags... Did you see the latest on the OWS crowd in LA? They were asked what they were protesting against... The answers were typical "We're protesting against the top 1% for 'taking all of our money'," "We're protesting against the banks," and my favorite "We're protesting to get our student loans paid for."

Yup, there will always be the uninformed and, sadly, those are usually the ones that want to be on TV/interviewed, therefore you're going to get those types of responses.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

The LA protest left the park near City Hall in shambles, it took 1,400 cops hours to remove them, some 200 people were arrested, the ramshackle housing that they were living in (basically tarps and sticks and old nasty blankets) were left behind causing a major clean-up undertaking, and the grounds were ruined. The grass is now dirt, plants were trampled, etc. It will be a couple of years before that park looks decent again. What a joke.

Sounds like job creation!

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Did you go down to "Occupy Detroit"? I did, nothign but the same.

I live in AZ and no, I haven't been down to Occupy Phoenix. That said, as with most things, you get out of it what you put into it.

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November 30th, 2011, 4:31 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags... Did you see the latest on the OWS crowd in LA? They were asked what they were protesting against... The answers were typical "We're protesting against the top 1% for 'taking all of our money'," "We're protesting against the banks," and my favorite "We're protesting to get our student loans paid for."

Yup, there will always be the uninformed and, sadly, those are usually the ones that want to be on TV/interviewed, therefore you're going to get those types of responses.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

The LA protest left the park near City Hall in shambles, it took 1,400 cops hours to remove them, some 200 people were arrested, the ramshackle housing that they were living in (basically tarps and sticks and old nasty blankets) were left behind causing a major clean-up undertaking, and the grounds were ruined. The grass is now dirt, plants were trampled, etc. It will be a couple of years before that park looks decent again. What a joke.

Sounds like job creation!

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Did you go down to "Occupy Detroit"? I did, nothign but the same.

I live in AZ and no, I haven't been down to Occupy Phoenix. That said, as with most things, you get out of it what you put into it.

BS... The Left wing media was DYING for the "movement" to grow legs and turn into something other than what it has become, but the MAJORITY of the people down there are unintelligble idiots. I went to occupy Detroit, and what the media has been showing was a very accurate depiction of what was going on down there. A bunch of morons with misguided, unintelligible rants, complaining about not "getting enough."

November 30th, 2011, 4:35 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3084

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

Quote:

NO ONE lends an 18 year old kid $100k. Harvard doesn't cost $100k your first year. Yearly distributions average around $15k. You have to be in school at least four years (so the borrower would now be 22 years old) to rack up that kind of debt.

And again... The ONLY reason the loan companies lend this kind of cash is because the GOVERNMENT REGULATES them, gives them SPECIAL PRIVILEGES, and EXEMPTS THESE LOANS FROM BANKRUPTCY.

This isn't "predatory lending" this is government regulation running a muck. And what happens... Wha-la! You have a subsect of a population with a TON more money to spend, and SUDDENLY, and SUPRISINGLY, tuition goes through the roof... WOW!!! HOW THE HELL DID THAT HAPPEN!!!?!?!?!?!?

Yeah, its 100% the government's fault. I'm not disputing that.

My point is, most kids were basically brainwashed into believing that if they went to any college and got any 4 year degree at any cost life would be sunshine and rainbows.

Clearly, that's not the case. But forcing them to lug around the debt doesn't do anyone any favors. It increases inefficiency in the broader economy, and clearly is a driver of societal unrest.

The entire education and college system needs massive reform in this country. Perhaps the OWS movement will finally force that issue.

If you wear Nike shoes, designer jeans, and carry your smart phoneto the demonstrations against capitalism, then you just might be aWall Street Occupier.

If you think that REAL communism could really work but it just hasnever been tried or tested, you just might be a Wall Street Occupier.

If you think other people must always be required to relinquishtheir material things so that you may pursue social justice and feelidealistic and righteous, then you just might be a Wall StreetOccupier.

If you consider your own property to be sacred, while otherpeople's property should be used for social engineering and doinggood, then you just might be a Wall Street Occupier.

If you think it is the main purpose of universities toindoctrinate students in leftwing ideology, then you just might be aWall Street Occupier.

If you think shooting terrorists constitutes "war crimes," thenyou just might be a Wall Street Occupier.

If you favor academic departments in which only enlightenedleftist opinion may be expressed and where there is no room fornon-leftist dissenting opinion to be heard, then you just might be aWall Street Occupier.

If you think there is nothing useful to be learned from the factthat Cuba used to be the richest country in Latin America and today isthe poorest country in Latin America, then you just might be a WallStreet Occupier.

If you are not aware of the fact that Cubans steal boats tosneak into the US but no low-income Americans steal boats to sneakinto Cuba, then you just might be a Wall Street Occupier.

If you think there is nothing we can learn from comparing thehistories of East Germany with West Germany before the unification, orNorth Korean with South Korea, then you just might be a Wall StreetOccupier.

27. If you believe that SUVs threaten life on earth, and - moregenerally - that the planet is in imminent danger of destructionunless everyone does what you want them to do, then you just might bea Wall Street Occupier.

If you assert passionately that Marxists care about people, whileConservatives hate all people and small animals and are not as smartas leftists, then you just might be a Wall Street Occupier.

If you believe that, if one country is rich and another poor, itmust be because the rich one stole wealth away from the poor one, then you just might be a Wall Street Occupier.

If you demand social justice but have no idea how to define whatit means or explain how to achieve it, then you just might be a WallStreet Occupier.

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December 1st, 2011, 9:48 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12488

Re: Free Stuff - Pretty Good Expl. of the OWS crowd...

Quote:

You might be a tea partier if:1. You think Michelle Bachmann is the smartest and bravest politician you've ever met.2. You think anyone who isn't white, christian, and rich is anti american.3. You think the 14th amendment is just code language for really soft triple-ply toilet paper.4. You think communism, facism, socialism and totalitarianism mean the same thing.5. You think the theory of evolution is "rewriting" our history books.6. You think women's bodies ought to be controlled entirely by the government.7. You think all hispanics in this country are probably illegal aliens, and although you're convinced none of them speak english, somehow manage to out-interview all of you for those wonderful high-paying jobs you claim they're taking.

Quote:

you think the greatest thing Thomas Jefferson ever wrote was about watering a tree, you might be a teabagger.

If you think there really is a government program called "Obamacare", you might be a teabagger.

If you have ever added a small mustache to a picture of Obama, you might be a teabagger.

If you are currently on Medicare and you're holding a sign that reads,"I oppose government run healthcare", you might be a tea bagger.

If you like to crumple up dollar bills and throw them at disabled people, you might be a teabagger.

If you've ever referred to President Obama as "that black fella in Washington", you might be a teabagger.

If you believe it's a good idea to openly carry an AK-47 to a political rally, you might be a teabagger.

If you think being a teabagger has nothing to do with testicles, you might be a teabagger.

If you've ever held a sign that said, "You can have my healthcare whenyou pry it from my cold, dead fingers", you might be a teabagger.

If you feel emotionally moved whenever Glen Beck speaks, you might be a teabagger.

If you've ever made an information request to the Hawaii Department ofVital Records and you're not a resident of Hawaii, you might be ateabagger.

If you need to bring a lawn chair to a 1 hour political rally, you might be a teabagger.

If you think the 2008 Presidential election was a choice between two socialists, you might be a teabagger.

If you think Tim McVeigh was a great American, you might be a teabagger.

If you think health insurance reform affects your 2nd amendment rights, you might be a teabagger.

If you like to look at Sarah Palin AND listen to her speak, you might be a teabagger.

If you think Obama is a M-O-R-A-N, you might be a teabagger.

If you can't accurately explain even one part of the new healthcare lawyet you still strongly oppose it, you might be a teabagger.

If you are thinking about moving to Canada to get away from government health insurance mandates, you might be a teabagger.

If you believe Republicans are just too damn liberal, you might be a teabagger.

If you think the Tea Party is a grassroots organization, you might be a teabagger.

If you complain about Obama's spending and not Bush's, you might be a teabagger.

If you think armed militias are a sensible idea, you might be a teabagger.

If you like to shout-down other citizens at town-hall meetings, you might be a teabagger.