Dave Ramsey probably wasn’t expecting this much pushback when he shared a piece by Tim Corley contrasting the habits of the rich with those of the poor. In her response on CNN, Rachel Held Evans noted that Ramsey and Corley mistake correlation for causality when they suggest (without actually proving) that these habits are the cause of a person’s financial situation. (Did it never occur to them that it might be the other way around?)

Ramsey fired back, calling the pushback “immature and ignorant.” This from a guy who just made 20 sweeping assertions about 47 million poor people in the US — all based on a survey of 361 individuals.

That’s right. To come up with his 20 habits, Corley talked to just 233 wealthy people and 128 poor people. Ramsey can talk all he wants about Corley’s research passing the “common-sense smell test,” but it doesn’t pass the “research methodology 101” test.

To balance the picture a bit, I wanted to take a fact-based look at 20 things the poor do on a daily basis…

1. Search for affordable housing.
Especially in urban areas, the waiting list for affordable housing can be a year or more. During that time, poor families either have to make do with substandard or dangerous housing, depend on the hospitality of relatives, or go homeless.
(Source: New York Times)

2. Try to make $133 worth of food last a whole month.
That’s how much the average food stamp recipient gets each month. Imagine trying to eat well on $4.38 per day. It’s not easy, which is why many impoverished families resort to #3…
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)

3. Subsist on poor quality food.
Not because they want to, but because they can’t afford high-quality, nutritious food. They’re trapped in a food system that subsidizes processed foods, making them artificially cheaper than natural food sources. So the poor are forced to eat bad food — if they’re lucky, that is…
(Sources: Washington Post; Journal of Nutrition, March 2008)

4. Skip a meal.
One in six Americans are food insecure. Which means (among other things) that they’re sometimes forced to go without eating.
(Sources: World Vision, US Department of Agriculture)

5. Work longer and harder than most of us.
While it’s popular to think people are poor because they’re lazy (which seems to be the whole point of Ramsey’s post), the poor actually work longer and harder than the rest of us. More than 80 percent of impoverished children have at least one parent who works; 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time. Overall, the poor work longer hours than the so-called “job creators.”
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

6. Go to bed 3 hours before their first job starts.
Number 15 on Ramsey and Corley’s list was, “44% of [the] wealthy wake up three hours before work starts vs. 3% of [the] poor.” It may be true that most poor people don’t wake up three hours before work starts. But that could be because they’re more likely to work multiple jobs, in which case job #1 means they’re probably just getting to bed three hours before job #2 starts.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

7. Try to avoid getting beat up by someone they love.
According to some estimates, half of all homeless women in America ran away to escape domestic violence.
(Source: National Coalition for the Homeless, 2009)

8. Put themselves in harm’s way, only to be kicked to the streets afterward.
How else do you explain 67,000 63,000 homeless veterans?
(Source: US Department of Veterans Affairs, updated to reflect the most recent data)

9. Pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Some conservative pundits and politicians like to think the poor don’t pay their fair share, that they are merely “takers.” While it’s true the poor don’t pay as much in federal income tax — usually because they don’t earn enough to qualify — they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc. In fact, the bottom 20% of earners pay TWICE as much in taxes (as a share of their income) as do the top 1%.
(Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, January 2013)

10. Fall further behind.
Even when poverty is the result of poor decision-making, often it’s someone else’s choices that make the difference. If you experience poverty as a child, you are 3-4 times less likely to graduate high school. If you spend your entire childhood in poverty, you are 5 times less likely to graduate. Which means your future has been all but decided for you.
(Sources: World Vision, Children’s Defense Fund, Annie E. Casey Foundation)

11. Raise kids who will be poor.
A child’s future earnings are closely correlated to their parents’ earnings. In other words, economic mobility — the idea that you can claw your way out of poverty if you just try hard enough is, more often than not, a myth.
(Sources: OECD, Economic Policy Institute)

12. Vote less.
And who can blame them? I would be less inclined to vote if I didn’t have easy access to the polls and if I were subjected to draconian voter ID laws that are sold to the public as necessary to suppress nonexistent voter fraud.
(Source: The Center for Voting and Democracy)

13. When they do vote… vote pretty much the same as the rest of us.
Following their defeat in 2012, conservatives took solace by reasoning that they’d lost to a bunch of “takers,” including the poor, who voted for Democrats because they want free handouts from big government. The reality is a bit more complex. Only a third of low-income voters identify as Democrats, about the same for all Americans, including wealthy voters.
(Sources: NPR, Pew Research Center)

14. Live with chronic pain.
Those earning less than $12,000 a year are twice as likely to report feeling physical pain on any given day.
(Source: Kaiser Health News)

15. Live shorter lives.
There is a 10-14 year gap in life expectancy between the rich and the poor. In recent years, poor people’s life expectancy has actually declined — in America, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
(Source: Health Affairs, 2012)

16. Use drugs and alcohol pretty much the same as (or less than) everyone else.
Despite the common picture of inner city crack houses, drug use is pretty evenly spread across income groups. And rich people actually abuse alcohol more than the poor.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

17. Receive less in subsidized benefits than corporations.
The US government spends around $60 billion on public housing and rental subsidies for low-income families, compared to more than $90 billion on corporate subsidies. Oil companies alone get around $70 billion. And that’s not counting the nearly $60 billion a year in tax breaks corporations enjoy by sheltering profits offshore. Or the $700 billion bailout banks got in 2008.
(Source: Think By Numbers)

18. Get themselves off welfare as soon as possible.
Despite the odds, the vast majority of beneficiaries leave the welfare rolls within five years. Even in the absence of official welfare-to-work programming, most welfare recipients enroll in some form of vocational training. Why? Because they’re desperate to get off welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

19. Have about the same number of children as everyone else.
No, poor people do not have loads of children just so they can stay on welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

20. Accomplish one single goal: stay alive.
Poverty in America may not be as dire as poverty in other parts of the world, but many working poor families are nonetheless preoccupied with day-to-day survival. For them, life is not something to be enjoyed so much as endured.

These are the real habits of the poor, those with whom Jesus identifies most closely.

look, I've been poor. I grew up with two pothead parents, one of which is/was a functioning alcoholic that, despite being incredibly intelligent, is a 56 year old man who works at a brown derby making 8.15 an hour (the other is a 54 year old diabetic on disability, not that she could ever hold a job for more than a year at a time).

food stamps? been there/done that. I have two older siblings, and there were many times when if we hadn't had food stamps, we wouldn't have eaten. I've eaten MANY cheap meals, as those food stamps have to last until next month. buying lottery tickets on them? yeah, that didn't happen.

clothing from the clothing bank? been there/done that. I didn't get new clothes. ever. I got the hand-me-downs from the charity run out of an old school on robberson street in springfield, mo. they also did school supplies and shoes (didn't get a new pair of shoes until I was like 12). I lived in constant envy of my friends who actually got new outfits for school. I lived in constant shame over the fact that what I had was never new. I got made fun of constantly, and as a result, have lived my life with the constant fire that settling is not an option.

being poor, however, made me who I am right now. I'm a 30 (almost 31) year old man whose parents have never done shit with their lives, yet I'm 1.5 years away from my Ph.D in molecular genetics. I may not have much, but what I have was earned with my own two hands. I've worked since I was 15 and a half, full-time since I was 18. I can tell you that being poor and seeing the shitty decisions that adults make can be the absolute strongest form of motivation on earth-- my dad still asks for money on occasion. my mom complains when their cable is about to be shut off and asks for money.

it's a sad state of affairs, but I've come to the conclusion that aside from the fact that I'd likely be better off financially if my parents were rich (and I'd already have my Ph.D, likely from a much more prestigious university), growing up poor isn't so bad--life is what you make of it, and you can overcome any odds if you set your mind to it. it's not for everyone, and likely many in my position would be in the gutter somewhere--but that's life.

look, I've been poor. I grew up with two pothead parents, one of which is/was a functioning alcoholic that, despite being incredibly intelligent, is a 56 year old man who works at a brown derby making 8.15 an hour (the other is a 54 year old diabetic on disability, not that she could ever hold a job for more than a year at a time).

food stamps? been there/done that. I have two older siblings, and there were many times when if we hadn't had food stamps, we wouldn't have eaten. I've eaten MANY cheap meals, as those food stamps have to last until next month. buying lottery tickets on them? yeah, that didn't happen.

clothing from the clothing bank? been there/done that. I didn't get new clothes. ever. I got the hand-me-downs from the charity run out of an old school on robberson street in springfield, mo. they also did school supplies and shoes (didn't get a new pair of shoes until I was like 12). I lived in constant envy of my friends who actually got new outfits for school. I lived in constant shame over the fact that what I had was never new. I got made fun of constantly, and as a result, have lived my life with the constant fire that settling is not an option.

being poor, however, made me who I am right now. I'm a 30 (almost 31) year old man whose parents have never done shit with their lives, yet I'm 1.5 years away from my Ph.D in molecular genetics. I may not have much, but what I have was earned with my own two hands. I've worked since I was 15 and a half, full-time since I was 18. I can tell you that being poor and seeing the shitty decisions that adults make can be the absolute strongest form of motivation on earth-- my dad still asks for money on occasion. my mom complains when their cable is about to be shut off and asks for money.

it's a sad state of affairs, but I've come to the conclusion that aside from the fact that I'd likely be better off financially if my parents were rich (and I'd already have my Ph.D, likely from a much more prestigious university), growing up poor isn't so bad--life is what you make of it, and you can overcome any odds if you set your mind to it. it's not for everyone, and likely many in my position would be in the gutter somewhere--but that's life.

What a great success story. Congratulations and thanks for sharing it.

__________________I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?

About a year ago my wife lost her job for a few months. We had enough money saved up to last about 3 months w/o her working. Around month 2, it wasn't looking good so i decided i'd look into Foodstamps as a back up plan just in case.

The maximum required income in order to be eligible was less than what i had to pay for my Rent.

Needless to say, i didn't qualify. The Req income was so low, im not sure how anyone who was working full time could even qualify with out downright lying.

I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone how much i make, but again, i fall under the "Working Poor" category.

So yes, i know from experience. Prison bitch's ignorant ass can go suck a fat dick...sit there and pretend like you know something...

Luckily my wife was re-hired at the same job so we ended up not needing it anyway.

look, I've been poor. I grew up with two pothead parents, one of which is/was a functioning alcoholic that, despite being incredibly intelligent, is a 56 year old man who works at a brown derby making 8.15 an hour (the other is a 54 year old diabetic on disability, not that she could ever hold a job for more than a year at a time).

food stamps? been there/done that. I have two older siblings, and there were many times when if we hadn't had food stamps, we wouldn't have eaten. I've eaten MANY cheap meals, as those food stamps have to last until next month. buying lottery tickets on them? yeah, that didn't happen.

clothing from the clothing bank? been there/done that. I didn't get new clothes. ever. I got the hand-me-downs from the charity run out of an old school on robberson street in springfield, mo. they also did school supplies and shoes (didn't get a new pair of shoes until I was like 12). I lived in constant envy of my friends who actually got new outfits for school. I lived in constant shame over the fact that what I had was never new. I got made fun of constantly, and as a result, have lived my life with the constant fire that settling is not an option.

being poor, however, made me who I am right now. I'm a 30 (almost 31) year old man whose parents have never done shit with their lives, yet I'm 1.5 years away from my Ph.D in molecular genetics. I may not have much, but what I have was earned with my own two hands. I've worked since I was 15 and a half, full-time since I was 18. I can tell you that being poor and seeing the shitty decisions that adults make can be the absolute strongest form of motivation on earth-- my dad still asks for money on occasion. my mom complains when their cable is about to be shut off and asks for money.

it's a sad state of affairs, but I've come to the conclusion that aside from the fact that I'd likely be better off financially if my parents were rich (and I'd already have my Ph.D, likely from a much more prestigious university), growing up poor isn't so bad--life is what you make of it, and you can overcome any odds if you set your mind to it. it's not for everyone, and likely many in my position would be in the gutter somewhere--but that's life.

Amen. I think we see the world through similar eyes. I have a similar background.

About a year ago my wife lost her job for a few months. We had enough money saved up to last about 3 months w/o her working. Around month 2, it wasn't looking good so i decided i'd look into Foodstamps as a back up plan just in case.

The maximum required income in order to be eligible was less than what i had to pay for my Rent.

Needless to say, i didn't qualify. The Req income was so low, im not sure how anyone who was working full time could even qualify with out downright lying.

I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone how much i make, but again, i fall under the "Working Poor" category.

So yes, i know from experience. Prison bitch's ignorant ass can go suck a fat dick...sit there and pretend like you know something...

Luckily my wife was re-hired at the same job so we ended up not needing it anyway.

this is true... a while back, my wife was out of work for a few months. we had a decent amount in savings, but... near the end there things were getting REALLY tight--the good news is that she actually had her old company come through with unemployment benefits (they'd fired her over her being a shitty saleswoman and not making her sales--thanks, dillards), and we ended up being ok despite being turned down for food stamps. (I should point out, I make peanuts as a grad research assistant but we're well in the working poor at this point in time)

I've mentioned this before, but I think we need to start measuring poverty in terms of standard of living, not money. If you're in the bottom 10 percent of a wealthy country and you have all you need, are you really poor?

If you examine things this way, you can then identify what gives a person a reasonable standard of living and concentrate on the people who don't have that.

Thats the problem progressives face. You want to include all forms of income and evaluate spending. If you do that the narrative that the poor are falling behind goes away.

"Table 2 shows that the average annual spending for a household in the lowest quintile in 2012 was $13,032 per person. In contrast, the average spending for a household in the top quintile was $32,054 per person.

On a per-person basis, households in the top fifth of the income distribution spent 2.5 times the amount spent by the bottom quintile. That was about the same as 25 years ago. There is no increase in inequality. In addition, the overall level of inequality is remarkably small. A person moving from the bottom quintile to the top quintile can expect to increase spending by only 146%.

All income groups spent less in real terms in 2012 than in 2007 because of the recession. Those in the bottom group spent 2.3% less, those in the middle quintile spent 8.5% less, and those in the top quintile spent 4.3% less. The fact that higher-income groups reined in spending more is not surprising, as a higher portion of their income is discretionary.

Compared with 1987, the big winners are the lowest-income group, whose expenditures increased by 12.1% in constant dollars. In contrast, the highest group spending per person increased by only 9.2%. This shows that even though the distribution of income might be wider, those at the bottom are doing better than they did 25 years ago because they have greater spending power, after adjusting for inflation." from http://www.economics21.org/commentar...blem-overblown

__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

PB is different. My post asking on how you define as we have many people in this country who pay their bills have insurance but have little savings and are one major event away from dire straits. These people could be defined as the working poor~

__________________“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion"
Steven Weinberg~

Actually, I do want that. You are a hateful, racist, homophobic piece of shit. The world will be a better place when you leave it.

You really need to look in the mirror dude. YOU are one of the most hateful people on the whole board. It seems like every time I see one of your posts you are calling somebody names and saying the most hateful things you can think of just because that poster doesn't support your left of Stalin know what's best for everyone opinion.

PB is different. My post asking on how you define Is we have many people in this country who pay their bills have insurance but have little savings and are one major event away from dire straits. These people could be defined as the working poor~

Then i think you and I define them as the same. I would also add that typically the working poor don't have any equity, or very little if any.

You really need to look in the mirror dude. YOU are one of the most hateful people on the whole board. It seems like every time I see one of your posts you are calling somebody names and saying the most hateful things you can think of just because that poster doesn't support your left of Stalin know what's best for everyone opinion.

Left of Stalin?

You are one of the stupidest, most gullible posters on the board. HERP DERP VACCINES ARE BAD HERP DERP

__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

About a year ago my wife lost her job for a few months. We had enough money saved up to last about 3 months w/o her working. Around month 2, it wasn't looking good so i decided i'd look into Foodstamps as a back up plan just in case.

The maximum required income in order to be eligible was less than what i had to pay for my Rent.

Needless to say, i didn't qualify. The Req income was so low, im not sure how anyone who was working full time could even qualify with out downright lying.

I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone how much i make, but again, i fall under the "Working Poor" category.

So yes, i know from experience. Prison bitch's ignorant ass can go suck a fat dick...sit there and pretend like you know something...

Luckily my wife was re-hired at the same job so we ended up not needing it anyway.

Well, ya' know what the lefties call that story--anecdotal.
I mean, I'm fine with it, as it puts a human face on the story, instead of a statistical number...but the left is against such personal experience being used in these debate threads. Just a FYI.

You really need to look in the mirror dude. YOU are one of the most hateful people on the whole board. It seems like every time I see one of your posts you are calling somebody names and saying the most hateful things you can think of just because that poster doesn't support your left of Stalin know what's best for everyone opinion.

It's fun to laugh at him. Everything out of his mouth is "racist!!!" and he cant explain any of his views. Which is how he earned the handle RaceCardRetard.