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I get that the human society in SSY is pretty rotten, and I'm not exactly shedding tears here over what's happening now, but you don't find any of these human characters the least bit pitiable, Kazu-kun?

Keep in mind that most of these folks were basically brainwashed their entire childhood and adolescence. We know how Saki and her group had occasional memory wipes - Well, most people in this society had their minds manipulated even more than that. It's hard for me to think that you can hold them accountable for much of anything.

FWIW it's not like they're all a rotten pile of arrogance. Whatever their society is like and for whatever reason, these are people capable of love, compassion, sacrifice, bravery, and so on and so forth.

Keep in mind that most of these folks were basically brainwashed their entire childhood and adolescence. We know how Saki and her group had occasional memory wipes - Well, most people in this society had their minds manipulated even more than that. It's hard for me to think that you can hold them accountable for much of anything.

Agree. We can't even tell what generation is this group already since the the first who started to build this society.. They lived the way they were raised to be... Probably, their only fault is keeping on the old ways and strictly following the blasted bonobo things, lols...But do they know exactly what is right and wrong?

And come on... of all the persons to start the change is none other Yakomaru? If its saki and Satoru to be the ones rebelling... I may have support them since they are more humane that that animal Yakomaru....

Killing one or two of the higher officials is acceptable... but slaughtering and butchering men, women, children and old people just because of their so called "rotten" society is not good..

I get that the human society in SSY is pretty rotten, and I'm not exactly shedding tears here over what's happening now, but you don't find any of these human characters the least bit pitiable, Kazu-kun?

I find Saki pitiable, but that's all.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R

Keep in mind that most of these folks were basically brainwashed their entire childhood and adolescence. We know how Saki and her group had occasional memory wipes - Well, most people in this society had their minds manipulated even more than that. It's hard for me to think that you can hold them accountable for much of anything.

I want them all dead for various reasons, but what really makes me cringe is their arrogance. You can see a bit of it in this episode, and in the previous episode one of the characters (the powerful guy that kicked the bucket) even called themselves the children of god or some shit like that. I mean, I think there's nothing wrong with struggling as much as you can for survival, but to think that you're entitled to it, that you somehow deserve to survive more than others because you're better or more worthy, that's bullshit. And that's the main problem with this people. Everyone of them, maybe with the exception of Saki and Sataru, believes themselves a wonder of the universe.... but these are people who kill their children because they're dead afraid of fiends and karma demons. They're not a wonder of the universe, they're not gods, they're shit. And since they're shit, they should be more humble.

All in all, I think this is a good opportunity for Saki. If she survives, maybe she will find the strength in herself to NOT become another Tomiko. Tomiko was controlled by fear just like everyone else. If the humans are to survive, they need a leader who isn't a paranoid faggot that would sacrifice their children out of fear. Because, the moment you sacrifice your humanity for survival, you can be damn sure karma will come to bite you in the ass, which is exactly what's happening right now. Karma has come in the form of a murderous fiend, and now they have to pay.

Maybe a little bit of a wild theory, but the timing seems too tight for a MamoruXMaria child to grow up enough to become a fiend. If this was 5+ years later, then it'd seem more plausible. Or maybe I just don't want to think about the obvious possibilities. (Though a lobotomized PK user probably still has their PK abilities, which would mean they'd go rampaging and wouldn't be controllable. So, I don't think that's actually happened. Hopefully.)

The child could be as old as twelve if he was born soon after Maria and Mamoru left the village. He should be old enough to become a monster, especially when raised by someone such as Yakomaru.

I find Saki pitiable, but that's all.
I want them all dead for various reasons, but what really makes me cringe is their arrogance. You can see a bit of it in this episode, and in the previous episode one of the characters (the powerful guy that kicked the bucket) even called themselves the children of god or some shit like that. I mean, I think there's nothing wrong with struggling as much as you can for survival, but to think that you're entitled to it, that you somehow deserve to survive more than others because you're better or more worthy, that's bullshit. And that's the main problem with this people. Everyone of them, maybe with the exception of Saki and Sataru, believes themselves a wonder of the universe.... but these are people who kill their children because they're dead afraid of fiends and karma demons. They're not a wonder of the universe, they're not gods, they're shit. And since they're shit, they should be more humble.

It is definitely silly and entitled for them to believe themselves as a wonder of the universe. But I think it's also natural for them to be like that since that seems to be something humans do a lot, in general especially those that have endured conflict for a very long time. If a sentient nonhuman species rose and came into conflict with us over control of the planet, there would be much of the same view too.

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Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)MyAnimeList || Reviews

It is definitely silly and entitled for them to believe themselves as a wonder of the universe. But I think it's also natural for them to be like that since that seems to be something humans do a lot, in general especially those that have endured conflict for a very long time.

And again, it wouldn't have happened if they had simply continued with what they were doing. Rendering your argument wrong.

In fact, it was trying to move away from "being shit" (your words) that lead to this. Karma didn't bite them in the ass, it's no good deed goes unpunished.

Tomiko didn't do this because she thought it was a "good deed". It was a pragmatic decision from her perspective. She wanted some non-sheepified people to help lead the place (and she hoped that Saki would eventually take over for Tomiko herself). And there's nothing wrong with that reasoning whatsoever.

Kazu-kun is right at a pragmatic level. Their arrogance has done them in. All of this was due to underestimation.

First they underestimated Mamorou, and his ability/desire to survive.

Then they underestimated Maria, and her ability/desire to stay loyal to her friends.

Then they underestimated Saki, and her ability/desire to not rat out her friends.

But the biggest of all, of course, was drastically underestimating Yakomaru and the Queerats. Right now, Yakomaru is outmaneuvering them so completely and so thoroughly that I can only call him "Glorious Bastard".

Kazu-kun is right at a pragmatic level. Their arrogance has done them in. All of this was due to underestimation.

In the underestimation sense I agree. What I was disagreeing with is the idea of "losing humanity" being their downfall.

If anything, it's the height of arrogance to think that "humanity" is necessarily superior or more suited to survival. As you say, it was overestimating themselves and severely underestimating the queerats that did them in.

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Tomiko didn't do this because she thought it was a "good deed". It was a pragmatic decision from her perspective. She wanted some non-sheepified people to help lead the place (and she hoped that Saki would eventually take over Tomiko herself). And there's nothing wrong with that reasoning whatsoever.

True. It was also quite a trail of incompetence that let Mamoru escape the cats. Still, I'm not sure how "sheepified" the rest of the people were. They still had many demonstrated variety of opinions and directions of thought. Even in Group 1, only Saki was significantly different in attitude towards the queerats and that seems to be more accident than anything.

For that matter, if Group 1 hadn't encountered the False Minoshiro, would they have even ended up much different? The show hasn't managed to explain that well.

If the humans are to survive, they need a leader who isn't a paranoid faggot that would sacrifice their children out of fear.

I lol'd at the wording here.

And so the trauma train continues. If I lived Saki's life I'd have probably committed suicide about three times over by this point. Love the sense of horror and constant danger that permeated this episode.

And so the trauma train continues. If I lived Saki's life I'd have probably committed suicide about three times over by this point. Love the sense of horror and constant danger that permeated this episode.

Why waste your life knowing you have power? What a waste? I'll leave the village and hunt some maidens...

I take it you're also actively rooting for the violent extinction of the human species in the real world, too. (Because otherwise ooh, sweet hypocrisy.)

Probably not.

However, there are many people in places of power throughout history who share these same ideas of superiority of their group that is entitled with a mix of fervent hatred of all outsiders that causes them to impose will on everyone that the world could have really done without.

It is natural for humans to develop a human centered view of the world, however actively imposing said view to great amounts of destruction and coercion isn't a good thing, even if some was needed for sheer necessity of survival.

__________________

The greatest lie is to convince people that the world is a dangerous place and a zero sum game where you are never safe. Distrust others and fight them for scraps, while the real enemy that spreads this lie takes the whole pie.Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)MyAnimeList || Reviews