~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~scrip
/skrip/Noun
1. A provisional certificate of money subscribed to a bank or company, entitling the holder to a formal certificate and dividends.
2. A small bag or pouch, typically one carried by a pilgrim, shepherd, or beggar.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~script
/skript/Noun
1. Handwriting as distinct from print; written characters: "her neat, tidy script".
2. A doctor's prescription.Verb
Write a script for (a play, movie, or broadcast).Synonyms
handwriting - writing - manuscript - scenario
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now think about the hundreds of times you have used the word incorrectly. Also think about how cool it would be if amateurs got scrip in the form of a small bag or pouch. I have one more definition for you, and this one pertains to your topic.

Comment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~scrip
/skrip/Noun
1. A provisional certificate of money subscribed to a bank or company, entitling the holder to a formal certificate and dividends.
2. A small bag or pouch, typically one carried by a pilgrim, shepherd, or beggar.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~script
/skript/Noun
1. Handwriting as distinct from print; written characters: "her neat, tidy script".
2. A doctor's prescription.Verb
Write a script for (a play, movie, or broadcast).Synonyms
handwriting - writing - manuscript - scenario
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now think about the hundreds of times you have used the word incorrectly. Also think about how cool it would be if amateurs got scrip in the form of a small bag or pouch. I have one more definition for you, and this one pertains to your topic.

Comment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~scrip
/skrip/Noun
1. A provisional certificate of money subscribed to a bank or company, entitling the holder to a formal certificate and dividends.
2. A small bag or pouch, typically one carried by a pilgrim, shepherd, or beggar.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~script
/skript/Noun
1. Handwriting as distinct from print; written characters: "her neat, tidy script".
2. A doctor's prescription.Verb
Write a script for (a play, movie, or broadcast).Synonyms
handwriting - writing - manuscript - scenario
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now think about the hundreds of times you have used the word incorrectly. Also think about how cool it would be if amateurs got scrip in the form of a small bag or pouch. I have one more definition for you, and this one pertains to your topic.

Comment

When I started playing in 2005 chouices for tournaments were pretty slim. You had about 6 PDGA tournaments in the summer (Oregon Series) and a handful of non-sanctioned one day affairs. With the wide variety of tournaments out there, I'm sure we've all been to some that have treated us to great players packs, nice payouts, and an overall awesome experience. Likewise, I'm sure most of us have been to some tournaments that have left us scratching our heads and wondering where the money went.

With so many tournaments now - just about every week we have multiple choices - we truly are spoiled. With so many options, it pays off to choose where we want to play. I don't call that being spoiled; I call it being informed.

Comment

The PDGA does not require any payout if announced in advance in the case of low entry fees. Also, player packs and CTPs count in the payout so nothing could be awarded based on final scores, again if announced in advance that this is how payout would be distributed.

I think this about sums it up. It is about expectations. If you announce payout ahead of time then people can make informed decisions easily.

This year at the Fall Fling I charged $25. Players got a Star or Blizzard Plastic Disc and a bunch of other little stuff.
Payout was top 3 trophy in every division and $50 total for top 3 in Open.
(In other Words, not a "good" payout at all)
We had 82 players enter even after knowing the "value" they would be getting, and I imagine we will have that large of a turnout next year as well.

In most sports, this sort of rate of return or "payout" is pretty standard. Disc Golf is truly a unique animal, therefore I sort of agree with Rooster that some DiscGolfers are a little spoiled meaning "They don't know how good they have it."
Just my .02

Board Member of the West Sound Disc Golf Association
Like us on Facebook! Facebook.com/WSDGA

Comment

I reject the initial premise that ams are specifically the ones spoiled in the sport. It's also the pseudo pros who have been spoiled by expecting 100%+ payouts with little or no contribution towards event expenses and little rationale for why they should be able to play for cash (i.e. paying spectators) versus winning merch like all of the other semi-pros (not ams) who play for merch.

If anything, there should be no cash payouts in any division and potentially even larger merch payouts (with sponsorship) that include a significant selection of prizes outside of disc golf merchandise where the retail/wholesale differential is used to cover tourney expenses including compensation for the TD team.

Yes, our current tournament structure has produced spoiled players but it's both players we call ams and pros although neither fit the conventional definitions. It's not "am" payouts per se that are the root of the problem. If the sport and our original TDs started with conventional am divisions like many other developing sports rather than pros with cash payouts, and events were run by Parks Depts, our current structure where TDs feel compelled to cater to the pros with cash payouts and even added cash would likely have materialized more conventionally (if at all) like other sports where payouts only came from spectator income and external sponsorship, not mostly from am retail/wholesale differential. But that's where we're at for now. The fault lies not with all players who have been spoiled and prefer to continue those expectations but more the administrative side of tournament structure that has evolved from the culture and traditions that produced it.

As usual, Chuck brings some good reflection. Chuck, I find the idea of non disc golf related prizes interesting, as it keeps the wholesale/retail model intact, which seems to appeal to event directors. Trouble is, of course, in any crowd of disc golfers, the only one thing you know they like in common...is disc golf.

The other factor you put in nicely was that the expectations are there... because we've trained our attenders to that end.

What starts as a bonus and draw, within three years (or less) becomes granted.

If I was tempted to draw a political cartoon of the modern disc golf event structure... it would be a stacked tiered pyramid of players, with the whole thing propped up on a shakey base pile of plastic.

Comment

If I was tempted to draw a political cartoon of the modern disc golf event structure... it would be a stacked tiered pyramid of players, with the whole thing propped up on a shakey base pile of plastic.

I have found that if I spread my plastic into many short stacks (discs arranged vertically on foam supports and rotated frequently of course) that they can support any size of pyramid, metaphoric or literal.

Just kidding, I like this image/analogy. Also I think it would make a great theme for your next tourny poster, BT.

Comment

The fault lies not with all players who have been spoiled and prefer to continue those expectations but more the administrative side of tournament structure that has evolved from the culture and traditions that produced it.

Chuck,
Golly gee man, so all the old pioneer TD's are at fault because they weren't sure which way to direct this new sport.
There was another post in this thread about TD BLAME, but I can't seem to find it now. I think it even stated something about TD burnout in the same paragraph.
I think it's safe to say that most of the pioneer TD's were into promoting the sport in the best way they could, considering the times.
I have seen a lot of good culture and tradition evolve from this fantastic sport!
I think that if a disc golfer, or anyone for that matter, is considered to be spoiled, then you should go back to the first years of their life.
Dang moms, dads and grandparents anyway!
FWIW, I paid out half the field to amateurs in 1992 and still do to this day.
Yose

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
- Anonymous

Comment

Flatroc- I agree "fault" isn't the proper word. It's more about the conditions at the time in the 80s, i.e., cash was easier to play for with no merch available and if you played for cash it meant you were a "pro." That started us down the path that lead to where we are, which has been good in many ways to build our sport, just less conventional than the way other sports have developed where their ams and pros better fit the traditional definitions.

Comment

This is my 3rd year back after 20 years. I have been hitting every tourney I can. A, B, C, NT. I can say that as an AM player in most of the C tiers I have played I got pretty sweet players packs. It just gets better from B to A tier tourneys. I have no complaints. Look at your self and why your not satisfied. For me it MY GAME that needs to improve. God speed to all the TD's out there putting on events to compete in. In 2013 I plan on playing a few less tourneys. I predict like 10 instead of 17.

Comment

Flatroc- I agree "fault" isn't the proper word. It's more about the conditions at the time in the 80s, i.e., cash was easier to play for with no merch available and if you played for cash it meant you were a "pro." That started us down the path that lead to where we are, which has been good in many ways to build our sport, just less conventional than the way other sports have developed where their ams and pros better fit the traditional definitions.

Well worded!
There are a lot of the older old-timers who have never played in an amateur division as there were none when they started.
If we only knew know, what we didn't know then, eh?

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
- Anonymous