For those asking why Apple support was so easy and android support is more difficult: In order to support 90% of the android market they would need to support 331 devices. [...]
Huge difference from a coding and support standpoint.

This is not actually correct. That is like saying to write a program that works on MS-Windows, you have to support 12,000 different computer models. Nonsense. When one writes using the Android development system, one produces a program that will run on most any targeted Android device.

It is up to the developer, which resolutions and features he wants to support. If one simply MUST use the newest of the new features, then one will limit the code to a lower number of devices- those that are running newer versions of the OS and/or better/more capable hardware. This doesn't necessarily make writing the application more difficult.

When writing an Android application, one has to consider different CPU powers, resolutions, features, just like one does when writing an iOS application. There is considerably more hardware and OS variation in the Android space and that does make it more of a challenge. But it doesn't mean having to adapt a program to "331 devices".

This is not actually correct. That is like saying to write a program that works on MS-Windows, you have to support 12,000 different computer models. Nonsense. When one writes using the Android development system, one produces a program that will run on most any targeted Android device.

It is up to the developer, which resolutions and features he wants to support. If one simply MUST use the newest of the new features, then one will limit the code to a lower number of devices- those that are running newer versions of the OS and/or better/more capable hardware. This doesn't necessarily make writing the application more difficult.

When writing an Android application, one has to consider different CPU powers, resolutions, features, just like one does when writing an iOS application. There is considerably more hardware and OS variation in the Android space and that does make it more of a challenge. But it doesn't mean having to adapt a program to "331 devices".

I am going to disagree. I have been in product development for 20+ years. high tech. Platform enablement. Software development. Android is hardly write once run everywhere.

I am going to disagree. I have been in product development for 20+ years. high tech. Platform enablement. Software development. Android is hardly write once run everywhere.

I think you skipped what I was trying to say...

I never claimed it would be a "write once run everywhere." It most certainly can be if you want it to be something simple. If you are going to tackle something more complex (which is more typical) it is going to require more work, but not 331 ports or "supporting" or "adapting" to "331 different devices"... an exaggeration/generalization I was trying to correct.

The biggest problem with Android are the devices which are stuck on older versions of the OS. THAT will set most of the limitations, depending on how wide a net you want to throw. Even so, last year, Android represents 70% of the smart phone sales (compared to some 19% on iOS) and 50% of the tablet sales. Just targeting Android 4.X is covering 44% of the huge Android market.

Development and testing will never be as easy in Android as it is for iOS, since one of the things that Android does so well- consumer and manufacture choice and variety, also makes development and testing more challenging.

I agree that the OS requirement is the biggest hurdle. And as I mentioned earlier the main feature required for Stream functionality is encrypted HLS, and that was not added to Android until v4. So once they do finally get this app done the number of devices it will actually run on is going to be limited those released in the last 8-10 months. That leaves a huge chunk of Android users out in the cold. Then they have to figure out how to market it properly so as not to anger customers with older versions of Android. Most people don't even know which version of Android their devices use, so how is TiVo going to insure only users with the proper devices buy the Stream?

iOS by contrast supports encrypted HLS on all devices. So it was much easier for them to develop and market the Stream for iOS.

Dan, I don't know the ins and outs of HLS, but you make an excellent point. Everyone keeps tossing around the market share numbers but in doing so, they are neglecting that a.) smartphones are not the primary market, tablets are and b.) there are OS limitations that will keep the app from running on all android tablets.

An additional factor that is difficult to weigh is that apple once had ~80%+ of the tablet market, so the install base is a huge factor (I have no data on that). Now, to be fair, the market of older android tablets may/may not be that large, I just don't know. However, saying that they have ~50% of the tablet market may be "factually" true for this most recent quarters' data, but that does not represent the real business opportunity.

Here is the real comparison, but none of us has the number:

Total addressable install base of compatible apple units:
All ipads sold after March 7, 2012
Some percentage of previously sold ipads that were upgraded to IOS 5.1 or higher
All iphone 4s and 5 models
Some percentage of previously sold iphones (3GS, and 4) that were upgraded to IOS 5.1 or higher

So, even if Android was 50% of the tablet market, less than half of the android devices are running the v4 or above. Let's say that the tablets skew heavily and that actually 75% are capable of running the OS. That would give you ~37.5% of the market to android capable, ~12.5% non-capable vs. the 50% of all apple. So, ultimately, even in a skewed market (and nobody has the data on that), there is still a considerable lead on the apple products.

Again, nobody here has the actual data so unless someone can bring that in, it is not worth arguing this point. I only bring two ideas forward:

1. Claiming the andriod market is a bigger opportunity is not clearly defined with anyone's data.
2. Building android support is far more complex than building apple support because there are fewer device and OS variables on the apple side.

Neither of these should be taken as a statement for or against android or apple, simply the realities of the situation. With the lack of data that we all have on market opportunity and actual development challenges, we should probably not pursure those lines of discussion because too many people (myself included) simply do not have the actual facts.

One thing we do know however is that a functional prototype of the Stream was demonstrated at the cable show last year in April. At that time they had already settled on using encrypted HLS and had pretty much got it working on iOS. However Android 4.0 had just been released and I think there was one Samsung tablet that was actually using it. So at that moment the market for the Stream on Android was pretty much non-existent.

Between then and September Samsung's sales figures for tablets running v4.0+ were pretty good, but only something like 18% of total tablet sales. The Google Nexus had just launched and the Kindle Fire HD wasn't even out yet.

By November sales of all 3 picked up considerably and TiVo saw the writing on the wall and added Android support to their road map. However this stuff takes time. They likely had a year, maybe more, to work on the iOS app before it was released. It's only been 4 months since they decided to add Android support.

People have this misconception that software development is easy. I can tell you from experience it's not! Seemingly simple tasks can trip you up and eat up days or weeks of your time. And throwing a bunch of developers at the problem wouldn't really help since the product isn't big enough to effectively utilize multiple developers, and if they tried they'd likely end up stepping on each others toes.

So sorry you can't afford nice things but crying about it makes you look ridiculous. How anyone can be so bitter over consumer products is laughable.

Even DirecTV/Nomad has a PC app. You made an assumption about my financial status, because I'm frugal. Who is the jerk and your apparent disdain for others is sad. But hey you got your kicks you belittled someone.

One thing we do know however is that a functional prototype of the Stream was demonstrated at the cable show last year in April. At that time they had already settled on using encrypted HLS and had pretty much got it working on iOS. However Android 4.0 had just been released and I think there was one Samsung tablet that was actually using it. So at that moment the market for the Stream on Android was pretty much non-existent.

Between then and September Samsung's sales figures for tablets running v4.0+ were pretty good, but only something like 18% of total tablet sales. The Google Nexus had just launched and the Kindle Fire HD wasn't even out yet.

By November sales of all 3 picked up considerably and TiVo saw the writing on the wall and added Android support to their road map. However this stuff takes time. They likely had a year, maybe more, to work on the iOS app before it was released. It's only been 4 months since they decided to add Android support.

People have this misconception that software development is easy. I can tell you from experience it's not! Seemingly simple tasks can trip you up and eat up days or weeks of your time. And throwing a bunch of developers at the problem wouldn't really help since the product isn't big enough to effectively utilize multiple developers, and if they tried they'd likely end up stepping on each others toes.

Dan I'm well aware of what goes into project development. Maybe because my past had to do with real time needs and a market that if you didn't respond rapidly you found yourself with customers fleeing in droves or worse hit with massive fines from convoluted ever changing laws this Metropolitan Service Area or that Public Utility Commission, the FCC... I'm just accustomed to a RAPID response to market demands, serving the instant gratification of the user. The saying in the telephony business was "It's is a nickel and dime business, but it's a god awful lot of nickels and dimes", so 24/7 365 your telephone service always works!

As a phone OS that is true, but the Stream is aimed mainly at tablets not phones.

I've explained this before but there is actually a technical reason for the Android delay. The Stream uses a technology called encrypted HLS. Apple invented that technology so it is supported on all iOS devices. However Android did not add support for encrypted HLS until v4. And the only mass market tablets that use Android v4+ are the Kindle Fire HD and the Nexus, both of which weren't even released until late last year. So until like August of last year there wasn't even an Android tablet on the market capable of using a Stream. And actual mass market adoption of those tablets didn't happen until the holidays. So there was really no substantial market for an Android version of the Stream until about 2 months ago.

That being said a TiVo employee confirmed via this forum that they started work on a Android version back in November. A 6 month development cycle is typical for these sorts of things so I'm guessing we're looking at an April release date for Android support. Perhaps during that cable show where they announced the Stream hardware last year?

A six month development cycle is typical that is correct however it's now May, 7 months from November, and still there has been no word or hint or confirmation as to Android becoming compatible with the Stream. Let's not forget that the Kindle tablets are able to use Android apps now so not only are Android smartphones and tablets a viable option to watch TiVo videos on, but now the market has even become wider with the inclusion of the Kindle devices.

A six month development cycle is typical that is correct however it's now May, 7 months from November, and still there has been no word or hint or confirmation as to Android becoming compatible with the Stream. Let's not forget that the Kindle tablets are able to use Android apps now so not only are Android smartphones and tablets a viable option to watch TiVo videos on, but now the market has even become wider with the inclusion of the Kindle devices.

And kindle devices were not included in the numbers I previously quoted.

All of this data may be true now, but it wasn't a year ago when they announced the Stream. In fact, at that time, there was only one Android tablet on the market that even had 4.0+.

TiVo officially announced that they were working on the Android version in late November, so I assume that's when they started. So it's been about 6 months. They recently released a patch for the Android app, that proves that they are actively developing for the platform, so I'm betting we see Stream support for Android in the next month or two.

Although I'm not sure what sort of approval, if any, they have to get from CableLabs for this. If they need approval then who know how long that might hold up the process. Especially since Android is a much less secure platform and CableLabs may see it as a potential security hole.

I think this will continue to create problems for some time until the software layering can really come to fruition. I find that iOS devices do a much better job of handling applications. My Android devices have far too many "stopped working" and shutdown issues. Android feels a lot like windows on a tablet. Once you learn how to deal with the quirks it is ok. I'd prefer to have a strong Android in the market for competition, but while it is selling better than iOS, I fear that is mainly driven by price point and not ecosystem or stability.

All of this data may be true now, but it wasn't a year ago when they announced the Stream. In fact, at that time, there was only one Android tablet on the market that even had 4.0+.

TiVo officially announced that they were working on the Android version in late November, so I assume that's when they started. So it's been about 6 months. They recently released a patch for the Android app, that proves that they are actively developing for the platform, so I'm betting we see Stream support for Android in the next month or two.

Although I'm not sure what sort of approval, if any, they have to get from CableLabs for this. If they need approval then who know how long that might hold up the process. Especially since Android is a much less secure platform and CableLabs may see it as a potential security hole.

I have a friend who is a single person who wrote a game for android and iOS. The android version came out 1 month before he submitted the iOS version.

That's one guy, writing a VIDEO GAME that does waaaaaay more than this application does. It has an entire rendering and physics engine in it.

So, the development cycle is not a valid excuse.

Cable labs is only a valid excuse if we assume TiVo is incompetent. I do not assume that.

I think this will continue to create problems for some time until the software layering can really come to fruition. I find that iOS devices do a much better job of handling applications. My Android devices have far too many "stopped working" and shutdown issues. Android feels a lot like windows on a tablet. Once you learn how to deal with the quirks it is ok. I'd prefer to have a strong Android in the market for competition, but while it is selling better than iOS, I fear that is mainly driven by price point and not ecosystem or stability.

Nah. It's just flat out a better OS. It's easier to develop for, it has a wider variety of hardware, it has a faster innovation cycle (due to there being so many manufacturers) and there's more opportunity for differentiation (no one wants to feel like they have the same phone as everyone else).

I also have to question how much you actually use android if you have more app crashes than on iOS. Sure, App crashes are absolutely a thing on Android. I have 4 android devices I use for various tasks, and yeah, I probably get a "stopped working" message once a week. But load up the Marvel Unlimited App on iOS and I promise you you'll generate a crash in the first hour. Which is to say, it has nothing to do with the OS and everything to do with the app.

Arguing that either OS is better is really crazy. Both OSs are different and each has their strengths and weaknesses. In the world of judo, you use your opponents strength as their weakness. Supporting a more varied amount of hardware actually can be a negative. It's walled garden vs. the bazaar. The bottom line is that both have their advantages, but from a business perspective there is a reason that iOS came out first.

A friend of mine told me that it's silly that they can't write an app to work with the Stream for Android because of something to do with Java which is supposed to be a lot easier to write then Apple?

The language Apple uses is kind of a PITA. It's called Objective C. It's a derivative of C/C++ but it's just different enough to make it like learning a new language even for a seasoned C/C++ programmer. Android mainly uses Java with some limited C/C++ support.

However there are a TON of people that are well versed in both Java and Objective C that TiVo could hire to do these apps, so that's not really the issue. There was a technical limitation to Android, which I've explained before, that made it impossible to develop Stream support for Android initially. But that limitation was removed in Android 4.0 which most devices have now transitioned to. At this point there is really no excuse. I hope that they are working on the app right now and are very close to delivering it.

I don't know what technology DirecTV uses, but the TiVo Stream uses encrypted HLS which is only supported on Android 4.0+. DirecTV is a closed system, so they can do pretty much whatever they want. TiVo has to adhere to CableLabs guidelines so there are limitations on the technologies they can use as they have to be approved by CableLabs.