FP+ Capacity per Park Summary of Work so far 2/9/2013

To clarify/confirm, yes to both regarding "long fp return" - i was referring to return times that are so far away under current fp system if not arrive early as to be nearly useless b/c our plans do not necessarily envision staying in park for 5 or 6 hours with toddlers and 80 year olds, and if all fp used up then literally useless.

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YES! In this case, this has to be one FP+ best selling points. You can get that elusive FP for Toy Story Midway Mania for the time YOU want. That will be a beautiful thing.

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When I think of the 3 fp+ , I think my best utilization will be - 1 e ticket, 1 parade or nighttime show, and one b attraction. This works for 3 out of the 4 theme parks (AK weakest link). Fantasmic at Studios, Illuminations at Epcot, they are the clear choice for me. Actually, we usually skip these because I have no interest in waiting 1.5 hrs ahead of time to get a good spot.

I just hope that the b tickets that now have fp wont be horrendous to fit in. Im concerned about this.

Edited to add: I dont think (gut feeling) that DVC will be head of the pack in FP+, I think that they will be equal to top tier Deluxe resorts. Disney wants to catch that consumer, they already caught quite a few of us with DVC. Cant be bad, I cant see it being 'better'.

When I think of the 3 fp+ , I think my best utilization will be - 1 e ticket, 1 parade or nighttime show, and one b attraction. This works for 3 out of the 4 theme parks (AK weakest link). Fantasmic at Studios, Illuminations at Epcot, they are the clear choice for me. Actually, we usually skip these because I have no interest in waiting 1.5 hrs ahead of time to get a good spot.

I just hope that the b tickets that now have fp wont be horrendous to fit in. Im concerned about this.

Edited to add: I dont think (gut feeling) that DVC will be head of the pack in FP+, I think that they will be equal to top tier Deluxe resorts. Disney wants to catch that consumer, they already caught quite a few of us with DVC. Cant be bad, I cant see it being 'better'.

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This report gives a hopeful glimpse at the Epcot options! It does mention 3 FP+ but multiple e-tickets - I wouldn't have to FP Maelstrom. That would work better at Epcot. I wonder if that would have been the same for MK?

This report gives a hopeful glimpse at the Epcot options! It does mention 3 FP+ but multiple e-tickets - I wouldn't have to FP Maelstrom. That would work better at Epcot. I wonder if that would have been the same for MK?

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Thanks for post and link- i also got caught in an app "test" this weekend, but our next trip is 2 months away, so was purely theoretical and no specifics were available. But some of the followup posts raise an interesting issue- what happens to the "b" rides (and "c", "d", etc)? My son has never been able to ride tsmm, but he has ridden buzz several times and his same-age cousin once went on basically a continuous loop of riding buzz, get back in 5 min standby, repeat. And they both like the carousel and tomorrowland people mover, which currently have basically no wait. He probably envisions a similar experience in his little head for our next trip, along with repeated rides on spaceship earth (his grandpa who helped invent internet is smiling from above), and riding iasw, the dino dumbo at ak, and seeing fotlk with limited to no waits- and another venture on poc if he is feeling brave again. I am not so worried about ak because there are only 3 things that likely will need a fp that we like (safari, fotlk, and maybe dino dumbo), but i could see scenarios in which our epcot-and definitely mk- experiences are impacted- as i said before, devil is in details, but i remain optimistic

But before everyone starts dancing a jig regarding it, I have to say, I dont believe that when this system is on, live, and operating under the capacity that I believe Disney envisions, the numbers do not support it. Do you think? That was the whole point of the start of this thread - the logistics and potential of how many and what could be offered. And the best E ticket rides will most likely be 1 per customer. Mathmatically speaking, that is just a fact. ESPECIALLY at EPCOT and AK - MK and Studios, well, maybe. (ok- I sound like I know, but this is just my opinion, stated strongly. I dont actually KNOW anything, just speculating and stabbing at an educated guess).

Here is the silver lining, from my perspective. Its going to take a while, maybe a long while, for Disney to train those mice to eat the cheese. Especially off site guests. It may take a couple of years to get 80% or so to use this new system. IN THE MEAN TIME - transitions can be awesome! We may be able to score multiple e tickets, plus get extra fp+'s. In the first few months of roll out - do you think even 20% of Disney guests will be 'online' with the program. I doubt it. The suprise and amaze, plus the here and now, will be firing out fp+s like a machine gun. (possibly). Why? Disney wants people to love it, and talk about it, and do it again or recommend people to do it.

This transition for the 'in the know' user could be heaven sent. A dream. But you have to know, that as every day passes - Disney will be doing its best to train those mice, encourage them to participate, and wring lots of money out of them in the process. How fast will it take? I have no idea. It could be 1 year or 6 months or 3 years to get up to that capacity. In the mean time, with good solid Dis reports on what is happening when this thing goes live, we can maybe all make hay while the sun shines. That is my most optomistic view regarding transitions.

I very much suspect that eventually every attraction and experience will be part of the grid. It will be riding appointments. Eventually. We shall have to ressurect this thread 10 years from now, and see how badly we forecasted this new system.

I agree Rileygirl. I even go so far as to think they might roll it out slowly with generous benefits to gen up positive press for the system, especially after the somewhat lukewarm reception it has gotten so far.

I wouldn't be surprised to see MK with 4 FP slots and Epcot with 3. But no way can they give every person at Epcot 1 FP for Soarin and one for TT once full implemented. And sure, there might be 2 or 3 people who don't want those, but that's about it. And really, all they have to do is roll the system out now looking very generous, then somewhere along the line they can tweak the system to allow only one or the other. It doesn't even have to be an announced rule change. Just one day you log in and find TT available but not Soarin. Who's to say they just weren't all booked already? Of course WE will all know. Because we will all be up at the crack of dawn on the earliest appointed day to make our reservations.

But haven't we all logged onto the ADR system at 180 + 10 only to fnd CRT (or some such location) unavailable? Was it already booked? Did they not get the tables loaded? I've seen thread after thread about this or that restaurant and wondering whether the tables were loaded. Or examples about them holding back tables for this or that. Ride slots can be the same way.

I agree Rileygirl. I even go so far as to think they might roll it out slowly with generous benefits to gen up positive press for the system, especially after the somewhat lukewarm reception it has gotten so far.

I wouldn't be surprised to see MK with 4 FP slots and Epcot with 3. But no way can they give every person at Epcot 1 FP for Soarin and one for TT once full implemented. And sure, there might be 2 or 3 people who don't want those, but that's about it. And really, all they have to do is roll the system out now looking very generous, then somewhere along the line they can tweak the system to allow only one or the other. It doesn't even have to be an announced rule change. Just one day you log in and find TT available but not Soarin. Who's to say they just weren't all booked already? Of course WE will all know. Because we will all be up at the crack of dawn on the earliest appointed day to make our reservations.

But haven't we all logged onto the ADR system at 180 + 10 only to fnd CRT (or some such location) unavailable? Was it already booked? Did they not get the tables loaded? I've seen thread after thread about this or that restaurant and wondering whether the tables were loaded. Or examples about them holding back tables for this or that. Ride slots can be the same way.

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Agree

One other factor - the old fp system will be running in conjunction with the new fp system to start with. So it wont be a free for all with fp+ when it starts up. BUT, it may be easier to score with FP+ then with the old fp system. I think they will want it to 'feel' better, and 'be' easier compared to the old system. Its to their advantage to do so.

Which, on the con side, it may make the regular fp system even harder to maximize when they roll this system out- right from the get go. Just something to think about.

And, while the system starts up, I dont think you are going to see really bad standby lines at our old favorite 'b' attractions that are now 'online' to begin with. So few of the population will pick them, and wont have to, because the numbers will be small enough that I am going to guess, just about everyone participating will be able to score some good rides. But, when this is operating at capacity, people will be forced to choose HM, and even perhaps sell out of HM, meaning standby lines for HM will be very bad, all day long. And long term, its going to really effect the way we tour. But if you are traveling in the next year or so, I dont think the impact will be there yet. JMHO.

And, while the system starts up, I dont think you are going to see really bad standby lines at our old favorite 'b' attractions that are now 'online' to begin with. So few of the population will pick them, and wont have to, because the numbers will be small enough that I am going to guess, just about everyone participating will be able to score some good rides. But, when this is operating at capacity, people will be forced to choose HM, and even perhaps sell out of HM, meaning standby lines for HM will be very bad, all day long. And long term, its going to really effect the way we tour. But if you are traveling in the next year or so, I dont think the impact will be there yet. JMHO.

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Probably not, but there could be a handful of attractions where even a small number of FP+ make a difference. The test last December was more then enough to do a real number on our wait at ETWB. But I'm not sure that attraction is a good example of a "B" attraction. Hate to call it a headliner, but in terms of demand right now, maybe it is.

Point taken.
I think I need to clarify my stance on 'b' attractions though:

When I think 'b' attractions that are fun fillers, I think high capacity, fast loading, easy to take in during the morning, AFTER you have made the best of the first hour, or even the first 1.5 hrs, riding the headliners and getting one fp or two.

Buzz, Pirates, HM, Philharmagic, (wedway - I love this attraction, so silly but I do) even small world - these rides have high volume hourly turn overs. I usually use these as fun fillers while we wait for a fp to mature in the morning, or waiting to pick up another fp once the window opens. It will take a large number of people to get in the fp+ line to have any real impact on the standby line, and I forsee that to be a 'down the road' thing.

ETWB has two big negative factors, OHRC and popularity. Right now, I think you would consider it almost an 'e' ticket - perhaps for the age set that dumbo is an 'e' ticket. And, how many shows per day, and how many will the 'theater' fit? These are very limiting factors. Going on the hype this attraction has, its the new dumbo almost. (here is something to think about - this 'attraction' and popularity are relatively new - how does the general population know to scamper here first in the morning? Perhaps technology and the information highway. If it can make this attraction so popular, and so fast, how long will it take to get people on the fp+ program? Ok- when I say ETWB is new, its not actually. I saw it with my kids when they were tiny, my son was the beast! this has got to be about 10 years ago. But back then, it was not a well known attraction. It was easy to see whenever. And it was fantastic back then. Now, its well known and loved and desired. The competition has gotten fierce, FAST. Just saying, that more people are plugged into the internet, and do some research before going now, then they use to.) Ok, that was rambly. dont know if I made any point at all, but I tried.

I think on certain 'b' attractions, even a small number of fp+ will have big impact. Peter Pan, pooh, small capacity rides will get snarled up quickly. The dreaded speedway will be BUGLY if the fp+ comes into effect. Barnstormer will be bad.

But, an educated user will know this, right? So, they would adjust their plan to try and compensate. For example, when doing the Mk next week: if I got the chance to participate in this deal, here is what I think my plan would look like.

FP+ Space, Parade, and mermaid (have not seen this yet) - the attractions I would pick close together in the early afternoon time slot.

Arrive at ropedrop. Head directly to BTMRR, try and ride at least 2x's, maybe even a couple of more if possible. I would be keeping an eye on splash though, and time (my kids usually take at least one picture of me looking at my watch at Disney). Ride splash next (mornings are so much slower for this attraction, people dont want to get wet first thing, especially if its cold. However, Disney controls the water effects and the amount of 'wetness' riders will experience due to outside temperature, and with the wise use of seat placement, and the magic towel trick, its not a factor for us).

Now, I would do a few favorite b attractions that I would consider high capacity low wait time rides depending on our location in the park - pirates, hm, and or philharmagic. Lunch, wander over to tomorrowland, do wedway and hopefully space mountain would be ready to go, then check out the new fantasyland, and ride mermaid with fp. Do parade, go home hot and exhausted after a successful 3/4 day at the MK with teens. 3 mountains, hopefully a couple of doubles, lots of fun fillers, and a look at the new stuff.

Success. But, if I was touring with small children, or seniors, or kids that dont like or do mountains, it would be totally different. It also would be totally different if I was a first time visitor, or someone who rarely goes, and wants to see as many different things as possible. But there would be ways to tweak that Itinerary too.

A wise man once told me, that if you understand crowd mentality, and disneys crowd control, and the difference in each attractions abilitiy to handle crowds, you know where to be when, and more importantly, how to adjust to stuff on the fly, like rides going down, or unexpectedly large crowds, whatever. Give a man a fish....

I wasn't clear in my statement. I meant, I can't see how one DVC resort would get a better FP+ perk than another DVC resort. For example, I don't really see BLT getting a more advanced FP+ than GF DVC or the Beach Club DVC or Villas at Wilderness Lodge.

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The point was made that BLT and Contemporary are supposed to be the most 'technologically advanced' resorts which is why they would get the most benefit from the new MM+ system. Not to mention if they have a resort that may be underselling at a certain time of the year they could offer something like "Oh and if you book now @ POFQ you get an extra FP+ booking for your first two days!" I see this as a distinct possibility.

Probably not, but there could be a handful of attractions where even a small number of FP+ make a difference. The test last December was more then enough to do a real number on our wait at ETWB. But I'm not sure that attraction is a good example of a "B" attraction. Hate to call it a headliner, but in terms of demand right now, maybe it is.

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I don't think ETWB is a 'high end' either but since it's new and shiny everyone wants to see it. Not to mention the use of technology in that whole thing is enough for me to want to see it.

Interesting report.
Here is the silver lining, from my perspective. Its going to take a while, maybe a long while, for Disney to train those mice to eat the cheese. Especially off site guests. It may take a couple of years to get 80% or so to use this new system. IN THE MEAN TIME - transitions can be awesome! We may be able to score multiple e tickets, plus get extra fp+'s. In the first few months of roll out - do you think even 20% of Disney guests will be 'online' with the program. I doubt it. The suprise and amaze, plus the here and now, will be firing out fp+s like a machine gun. (possibly). Why? Disney wants people to love it, and talk about it, and do it again or recommend people to do it.

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Rileygirl said:

One other factor - the old fp system will be running in conjunction with the new fp system to start with. So it wont be a free for all with fp+ when it starts up. BUT, it may be easier to score with FP+ then with the old fp system. I think they will want it to 'feel' better, and 'be' easier compared to the old system. Its to their advantage to do so.

Which, on the con side, it may make the regular fp system even harder to maximize when they roll this system out- right from the get go. Just something to think about.

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Sure you say something that I was going to make a counter argument too and make the point I was going to make two posts later.

It all depends on how they separate the entire pool of FP's between both systems! What will the percentages of those break ups be? 75/25 50/50 25/75? The split up that they come out with will determine which system will work better to start with although I do agree that theoretically FP+ could be easier to get at the beginning.

My biggest concern with the transition is that I'm going to be stuck doing whichever system my brother picks to do with his family. That's why I'm trying to keep up to date with FP+, so I can help him decide which will work better for us.

Sure you say something that I was going to make a counter argument too and make the point I was going to make two posts later.

It all depends on how they separate the entire pool of FP's between both systems! What will the percentages of those break ups be? 75/25 50/50 25/75? The split up that they come out with will determine which system will work better to start with although I do agree that theoretically FP+ could be easier to get at the beginning.

My biggest concern with the transition is that I'm going to be stuck doing whichever system my brother picks to do with his family. That's why I'm trying to keep up to date with FP+, so I can help him decide which will work better for us.

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My guess is that they are going to stack that deck however they need to in order to make FP+ look more appealing. They want guests to be clamoring for it.

My guess is that they are going to stack that deck however they need to in order to make FP+ look more appealing. They want guests to be clamoring for it.

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I agree that is probably what they want to do. At this point I just want them to start rolling it out sooner rather than later. Or trip in June is coming up quickly, so the more that is known about it the better. Or just decide to not to implement it until July!

I wasn't clear in my statement. I meant, I can't see how one DVC resort would get a better FP+ perk than another DVC resort. For example, I don't really see BLT getting a more advanced FP+ than GF DVC or the Beach Club DVC or Villas at Wilderness Lodge.

The point was made that BLT and Contemporary are supposed to be the most 'technologically advanced' resorts which is why they would get the most benefit from the new MM+ system. Not to mention if they have a resort that may be underselling at a certain time of the year they could offer something like "Oh and if you book now @ POFQ you get an extra FP+ booking for your first two days!" I see this as a distinct possibility.

I don't think ETWB is a 'high end' either but since it's new and shiny everyone wants to see it. Not to mention the use of technology in that whole thing is enough for me to want to see it.

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yet another way to raise the room rates, sigh

If the new FP system is a resounding success (i hope it tanks and burnssince we like to 'wing it'); likely a whole cottage industry will pop up to handle the details ala tour guide mike services.

To further increase the ala carte incidential charges, deluxe resorts could offer a 'fee-based' service similar to concierge type services for those with deep pockets who aren't tech savvy or un-interested in putting in the leg work....might even get a few extra FPs thrown in as a bonus. There might be a whole 'nuther tier of pricier super deluxe booking packages rolling out. From the vacation prices i see posted here in various threads, it's apparant the sky's the limit for many.

I'm just along for the ridehoping my smrt DISboard buds will explain the whole process once it's firmed up in a cliff note version so I can give it a go.

I for one don't think they are going to dole out more Fastpass+ passes than they do extra Fastpass tickets now. They have played with the idea of bonus Fastpasses for a long time, and sometimes they happen, and sometimes they don't, but not usually with any regularity that you can count on.

With the loads of CMs being trained with iPads to help guests when they enter the parks, I think Disney intends to have as many people as possible using the system when it is offered. CMs not only at the gates and kiosks, but surely at all the Fastpass entrance rides will be trained to help with the new system and make sure people are getting their 3 rides.

As for concerns about the unpopularity of some Fastpass+ options, I think Disney is addressing this with their online system, where the FIRST option is to have Disney automatically pick 3 rides for you. Guess which rides they are going to choose? The ones they need to fill! Now people on this forum probably can't conceive of just letting a system pick for us because of our personalities, there are plenty of people who are happy to simplify the process and just know that they have short lines for a few rides. When one of them happens to be Space Mountain, they feel extra happy, even though the Dwarf Train and Dumbo have way more demand for that day. Those people don't know and probably don't care.

I think that part of the point of Fastpass+ is to do what Fastpass was originally intended to do, which is give everyone a few rides with shorter lines. However, it turned out with Fastpass that when many first timers get to an attraction, they would just as soon ride it and wait in line as get a Fastpass to return in the evening.

I know it sounds crazy, but I have several in-laws who did repeat rides on Disneyland Dumbo in the middle of the day with the queue in the hot sun for 2 hours each time because their kids liked it... and believe me, you could not have convinced the parents to do something differently. It's actually what tipped me over the Disney craze ledge. I knew there was a much better and more comfortable way to see attractions. Thank goodness my DH and I didn't have kids, so we were with the younger of his siblings who did more of the thrill stuff, but I still couldn't convince them to do Fastpass half the time. They didn't care at all about efficiency, even if it meant standing in a crazy long line. They would just decide on an attraction and then do it, regardless of the line. At least DH's parents were smart enough to get everyone to rope drop.

Also, for those concerned about priority of the FP queue over the standby line, remember that with return windows now enforced, you won't get the loads of people all at once so much. The idea is to have a trickle effect.

I was a little worried at the beginning, but with a 4 year old in tow on my next trip, I will honestly be glad to not have a Fastpass runner, and maybe I'll spring for a day with a VIP guide instead of a deluxe resort to assuage my son's need to repeat rides.

If the new FP system is a resounding success (i hope it tanks and burnssince we like to 'wing it'); likely a whole cottage industry will pop up to handle the details ala tour guide mike services.

To further increase the ala carte incidential charges, deluxe resorts could offer a 'fee-based' service similar to concierge type services for those with deep pockets who aren't tech savvy or un-interested in putting in the leg work....might even get a few extra FPs thrown in as a bonus. There might be a whole 'nuther tier of pricier super deluxe booking packages rolling out. From the vacation prices i see posted here in various threads, it's apparant the sky's the limit for many.

I'm just along for the ridehoping my smrt DISboard buds will explain the whole process once it's firmed up in a cliff note version so I can give it a go.

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Im not so sure its going to end up being a cottage industry. I think Disney will want that peice of pie. It may be as an extra cost, but it also may be incentive to get people to buy their tickets in advance, or using the KISS method for the general Disney goer - keep it simple stupid. Preselect one of these great 'itinerarys' - one click of the mouse and you are done!

Im not so sure its going to end up being a cottage industry. I think Disney will want that peice of pie. It may be as an extra cost, but it also may be incentive to get people to buy their tickets in advance, or using the KISS method for the general Disney goer - keep it simple stupid. Preselect one of these great 'itinerarys' - one click of themouse and you are done!

Thanks for post and link- i also got caught in an app "test" this weekend, but our next trip is 2 months away, so was purely theoretical and no specifics were available. But some of the followup posts raise an interesting issue- what happens to the "b" rides (and "c", "d", etc)? My son has never been able to ride tsmm, but he has ridden buzz several times and his same-age cousin once went on basically a continuous loop of riding buzz, get back in 5 min standby, repeat. And they both like the carousel and tomorrowland people mover, which currently have basically no wait. He probably envisions a similar experience in his little head for our next trip, along with repeated rides on spaceship earth (his grandpa who helped invent internet is smiling from above), and riding iasw, the dino dumbo at ak, and seeing fotlk with limited to no waits- and another venture on poc if he is feeling brave again. I am not so worried about ak because there are only 3 things that likely will need a fp that we like (safari, fotlk, and maybe dino dumbo), but i could see scenarios in which our epcot-and definitely mk- experiences are impacted- as i said before, devil is in details, but i remain optimistic

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That line cracks me up!

I think there is a lot to be optimistic about for the next 6-8 months. Rileygirl is on to an intriguing idea. The roll out could be very, very good for FP+ users until all the real changes hit later in the year.

How about that week after Christmas? Based on the images I saw last year, nothing will help that craziness. 4 hour waits at Test Track and other rides. If the rooms are filled and the parks are at capacity - What does FP+ do for those people. I guess at that time, Disney would truly try to use FP+ to spread a little magic. Saving fastpasses then and distributing to people "equally" would be advantageous for parks at capacity.

If they do have same day FPs available in the new system....... I wonder if every person linked in your group will have to be in the park for you to be able to get them. I'm sure with the RFID chip they will know where everyone is, but what if 2 of your linked group are in the park? Can you get FPs for those 2? In theory, that seems like the sort of thing this system should be able to do. But this is Disney IT we're talking about. I mean..... they manage to mess up the simple things....... can you imagine THIS? And if they don't get it right, then TSMM FPs could be completely gone in a nanosecond. And that has the ability to mess up a person's expensive park day faster than ADRs or anything else that runs through Disney IT.

I think for me that's the biggest thing. We're talking about the core pieces of our day at Disney. Mess up my room reservation, we'll figure it out. Mess up our ADR and we'll live. We go to Disney once a year. And some parks we only visit one day when we're there. Mess up the FPs the one day we are inthat park so we can't do what we came for.......... and we're gonna have trouble.

If they do have same day FPs available in the new system....... I wonder if every person linked in your group will have to be in the park for you to be able to get them. I'm sure with the RFID chip they will know where everyone is, but what if 2 of your linked group are in the park? Can you get FPs for those 2? In theory, that seems like the sort of thing this system should be able to do. But this is Disney IT we're talking about. I mean..... they manage to mess up the simple things....... can you imagine THIS? And if they don't get it right, then TSMM FPs could be completely gone in a nanosecond. And that has the ability to mess up a person's expensive park day faster than ADRs or anything else that runs through Disney IT.

I think for me that's the biggest thing. We're talking about the core pieces of our day at Disney. Mess up my room reservation, we'll figure it out. Mess up our ADR and we'll live. We go to Disney once a year. And some parks we only visit one day when we're there. Mess up the FPs the one day we are in that park so we can't do what we came for.......... and we're gonna have trouble.

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BINGO!

This is my biggest problem with the new system. On average I get to visit Disney about every other year if I'm lucky. Not to mention in order to pull that off I have to AGRESSIVELY save large portions of my paychecks in order to ensure that I can afford the trip. If you mess with my ability to tour and get done what I came to do, then we're going to have issues.

Let's just say that I'm really happy that we will be visiting during a historically slow time our next trip so hopefully we won't have to rely on FP as much as we did our last time.