ciberido:I don't entirely agree with you, but at the same time, there have been occasions where someone said "thank you" to me, I was about to say "you're welcome," and then decided to respond in some other way because it just felt like "you're welcome" might almost come across as saying "Yes, you SHOULD thank me, because it was a BIG DEAL."

I say "Thank you" right back then tell them to have a great day, evening, life, whathaveyou.

Forgive me for repeating something I already posted in the thread, but "you're welcome" dates back to 1907 and the "wel" part of "welcome" comes from wila, "pleasure, desire, choice." So, at least originally, "You're welcome" (as a response to "thank you") and "It was my pleasure" mean (or meant) the exact same thing.

I do think "you're welcome" is more appropriate in a business context, but I wish it weren't, because it sounds weirdly sycophantic. "Oh, you're welcome, sir! Herp a derp! I can hardly wait till you ask me to do something again!"

"No problem" sounds more to me like both parties are fairly indifferent to the transaction which is more the level I wish service were conducted upon, as opposed to the constant ego stroking that is expected now.

/Working in service for over 13 years//Taking college courses to get out before I lose my marbles

NkThrasher:huntercr: I believe you're actually incorrect on this. A degree is a rank or a title. A Diploma is what you receive granting you use of the title.This is why a degree is "conferred upon" you. Your diploma attests this specifically to you. So earning "your" degree is correct.

It isn't something you can legitimately claim possession of until you have completed its requirements. It isn't "yours". It exists as an abstract concept or item ("A degree", "A diploma") until it is instantiated and given to you ("My degree", "My diploma").

Colleges don't offer "Your degree in X", they offer "Degrees in X", you are seeking one of those "Degrees in X", it isn't yours until you have completed the requirements the college has set forth for conferring it upon you, at that point of conferment it becomes 'Your degree in X', until then it is a degreein potentia, not a degree you possess.

With respect, I think you are not seeing this because of the common assumption that a degree and a diploma mean the same thing. Linguistically there is much that overlaps between the terms..."You were given a degree", and "you were given a diploma", are roughly the same in common speech, yet they are not entirely interchangeable.

A degree is not a physical thing. It's not a piece of paper. A diploma is the thing. A degree is a title or award that is given to you by an authority. The diploma is written proof that you have received the title.

It is absolutely correct to say that a degree is "yours". And your issue with whether or not it's already been attained is silly. Yes of course colleges word it as "a degree" in xyz because their program is not for you alone, however conversely you are earning a degree for you alone. A degree is awarded to the individual and is non transferable. (It is fine for you to earn "a degree" , I am not saying one must use "your" here )

Do you also feel that when you go to a photographer, you must say you will have "a" picture taken instead of "your" picture until it has been given to you?

mama2tnt:Could we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get rid of "Oh, you're fine" as the only answer to "Excuse me"?

I'm about to go off on the next person who's in my farking way and, when I ask to pass them with an "Excuse me" answers as if it were my fault in the first place.

The problem with "Excuse me" in English is it means two entirely different things:

1. "I would like to ask a favor of you" (for example, if you want to get past someone and say "Excuse me" to get them to move out of your way, or allow you to brush past them without offense. For comparison, Spanish uses "Con permiso" ("with your permission").

To a non-native speaker these are two very distinct expressions and it seems quite odd than English uses "Excuse me" for both.

But I would guess that "You're fine" is in response to usage #1 and means something like "What you are asking permission for is such a minor matter there was no need to even ask." Or to look at it another way, I would take "You're fine" to mean "I assure you that what you did (or were about to do) was in no way a problem for me."

They are using the expression correctly. It's actually you who are at fault (if anybody is), because you could have said "Could you move, please?" if the question of whose "fault" the problem is really matters to you. As a polite fiction, you CLAIMED (by using "excuse me" instead of "please move") that the fault was yours: don't get upset if they play along with YOUR fiction.

NkThrasher:huntercr: I believe you're actually incorrect on this. A degree is a rank or a title. A Diploma is what you receive granting you use of the title.This is why a degree is "conferred upon" you. Your diploma attests this specifically to you. So earning "your" degree is correct.

It isn't something you can legitimately claim possession of until you have completed its requirements. It isn't "yours". It exists as an abstract concept or item ("A degree", "A diploma") until it is instantiated and given to you ("My degree", "My diploma").

Colleges don't offer "Your degree in X", they offer "Degrees in X", you are seeking one of those "Degrees in X", it isn't yours until you have completed the requirements the college has set forth for conferring it upon you, at that point of conferment it becomes 'Your degree in X', until then it is a degree in potentia, not a degree you possess.

or...and stay with me on this...language is a malleable, flexible thing that does not conform to your rigid literal definitions. You want absolutes? Go do math. Otherwise stay out of the language discussion.

People who get all nutty about grammer rules (intentionaly misspeling to drive them crazy) simply don't understand the purpose of language. The goal is to communicate. This guy knows exactly what they mean, he's just being a dick about how they say it.

Another thing he doesn't understand about language is that it changes. We don't talk the same way they did when Shakespeare was writing stories, and we don't talk the same way we did when King James had the bible translated. Language evolves.

/I was born well before 1980, and thinks the author is a dumbass despite his trying to pretend that everyone from before 1980 hates this and everyone after 1980 does it just to bug old fogeys like him.

serial_crusher:What about "it's all good"? Really? All of it? Every bit of it is good?

My grandson thought he was graduating HS, he failed out.Me: "WTF son?"Him: "It's all good"Me: The fark it is, you hated high school, now you have to go to summer school! What is up with that?Him: "It's all good"

Not reading the bajillion comments, but surely I wasn't the only one to notice that TFA's author is actually complaining about people using "no problem" in place of lots of phrases that aren't "you're welcome?"

In fact, in that entire article, there's only one place where he decries the substitution: the response from thanking someone for doing their job. In which case, IMO, "no, thank YOU" is a more appropriate response than "you're welcome."

NkThrasher:Everyone has their stupid grammar peeves. Not everyone writes inane articles about them. Most people just post them in threads about the inane articles.

"I'm going to school to get my degree!"

Really, *YOUR* degree? it's sitting there with your name on it right now? oh it won't be printed until a few days before you graduate? So you're really going to school to get *A* degree that you will have a claim for possession of after you have earned it?

Or even worse.

"I'm going to school to earn my degree!"

So you already have a degree that you somehow didn't earn but are now in the act of earning?

However, if the idea interests you, I suggest the short story "Grammar Lesson" from The Draco Tavern by Larry Niven. An alien race has a language in which "my hand" and "my brother" use different determiners in a manner which seems to be what you're driving at.

"No problemo" is an English expression that comes from farcical psuedo-Spanish. It is based on the (hopefully tongue-in-cheek) misconception that every word in Spanish ends in the letter "O." It was popularized in American culture by movies like Terminator 2 and tv shows like Alf.

Apparently, the author has a problem with the fact that we speak a living language as opposed to, say, Latin, which, being a long dead language, does not ever change, grow, or evolve over time. By definition, English--both American and the Queen's--means the colloquialisms change over time. Thus, "you're welcome" becomes "no problem" and "no problem" becomes "no worries" (which we shamelessly stole from the Australians--or at least, in some parts of the country, "no worries" is taking over for "no problem").

Perhaps he can find someone with a time machine, such as Doctor Who or Doc Brown, and go back to ancient Rome where Latin was spoken and then such things as evolving language won't bother him anymore. Until then, he should listen to his wife and STFU until some 16 year old rolls their eyes at him and says "whatever" or "same difference" (my two biggest pet peeves, and the pet peeves of many people over 35 that I know). Then he can rant, because then he will have a reason to.

You're right, btw, just clarifying, or paraphrasing to bring another concept or perspective to the table.

I've been trained to this level, this degree.

That is what a degree is, not a piece of paper, but a milestone.

My degree(of training), says I (should)know more than you about the topic.

A degree does not hang on the wall, the diploma that represents/certifies that it's been reached. The checkered flag, as it were is representative that you crossed the finish line, you can't hang the finish line itself on your wall.(well, technically you could, but let's not spoil an otherwise awesome analogy)

Please is a shorted version of "if it pleases the lord." Which is what you said to a superior to do just about anything. If it didn't please them, you very well didn't do it. A lord might say "Thinking of you" to someone of equal stature. Which became "Thank You."

Not exactly. You're correct that "think" and "thank" spring from the same root. But they separated about 1000 years ago, which is before constructions such as "Thinking of you" existed.

Aidan:Fuggin Bizzy: Pants full of macaroni!!: I have a tendency to reply to "How's it goin'?" with "It's goin'" and to "How you doin'?" with "I'm doin'".

So do I. And then I invariably get "Just 'going'? Not going well?" or some similar idiocy. And then I invariably get stabby: I'm busy, and you don't actually care, so STFU already...

One summer I was doing some filing in an office that had a couple salesweasels in addition to the usual staff. One of them breezed in one day and said "Hey how're you?" and I, thinking myself quite clever, said, "Pretty terrible." I smiled at him smugly, waiting for him to realize how smart I was and how dumb his question was, and he said "Great!" and breezed out. He hadn't heard a thing I said. That took me down a couple pegs. :)

"How are you?" is a greeting, not a question. It took me a long time to realize that. I used to waste a lot of brainpower trying to come up with suitable answers to that question before it finally became clear to me that, unless the person was a very close friend, "Fine" ( or some variation thereof) was the only suitable answer.

Loaf's Tray:omeganuepsilon: Since X is doing what Y cannot or will not, Y is compelled to make up for that shortcoming by saying "Thanks", implying that X went way out of his way and did a lot of work at the bidding of Y.

The natural response to that is to say, "You're welcome, but it was no problem, you didn't put me out in the slightest." to equalize that power struggle.

That's pretty much what I came in to say - I'm guilty of the "no problem" reply, but as I think about it now, I really only do it as a gesture of humility when somebody seems overly grateful for something that really took no toll on me to provide, like giving away a piece of furniture that I was going to throw out anyway or something; subconsciously it's like I'm simply turning down a mistakenly awarded badge of kindness, not being dismissive of someone's gratitude.

Yeah, it gets complicated. Some people it's a display of power, some embarrass you by being overly gratuitous. that's the problem with simply teaching kids to respond by rote, and a lot of "proper manners" in general, is because it leads to miscommunication or a misunderstanding of the world.

A cheery attitude like that can make others feel uncomfortable. "Oh, you brought me a coke from the back, thank you soooooo much, I'm going to name my firstborn after you, and then sacrifice him so that you may live forever".

(ok, so I ran with it). But you get the point. The person blows it so out of porportion because they're in a good mood, that their intent, good as it may be, makes you think less of them, or feel embarassed for them, so you try to calm them. It was nothing.

Or you know you didn't really earn the praise and that makes you feel uncomfortable. It really was no problem.

That kind of empathy and confusion is a lot more common than we tend to realize in little every day interactions. Hell, thinking about them may make it worse. Sometimes you just go with the flow, but you know that only simply responding by rote/habit is going to be looked upon badly too(uncreative dolt!...so blah...he sure doesn't sound happy to work here....etc)

That's how things like "no problemo" catch on. I almost always say "Not a problem, enjoy your X" in an upbeat tone, even if I don't feel like it.(unless the person is an asshole and I just can't bring myself to be kind whatsoever). But for everyone else, it can do wonders to perk them up, to change their attitude.

It's funny, I'm usually the quiet guy. When I do speak people tend to listen though, not because it's rare or even what I say, but because of how I speak.(and it's seriously not reflected here on fark in text). I deliver mood.

Meh. I also worked in a service industry for a while, but I spent a lot of time making friends and partying when I was in the service. I tend to study people a lot and gauge reactions and learn my way around. I'm not a manipulator by choice, it just flows naturally(not to the ends of greed, just to get everyone to lighten up). I catch myself doing it and try to stop, that's when I get akward.

I didn't actually read the article here, but this guy sounds like he thought about it too much and upset himself.

If anything, it's the "you're welcome" that is out of place. As someone mentioned above, it's rooted in a traveling sort of sense, response to a greeting.Traveller: "Hello"Villager: " Hello, you are welcome here. Make yourself at home."

In a sense, our desire to make people feel at ease has bled over into using the word in a different manner.

Can't say wrong, per se, but it's interesting to see things that have drifted from their origins like that, especially when you see some zealot like in FTA talk about how it's supposed to be that way.

Pants full of macaroni!!:I have a tendency to reply to "How's it goin'?" with "It's goin'" and to "How you doin'?" with "I'm doin'".

/and it seems to be spreading to my coworkers

When someone asks me whats up I often describe my current obvious situation and actions. In this case I am participating in an online discussion and pressing the submit button after i finish typing this.

Mine is people who get all bent out of shape believing that words have distinct meanings.

I'm like, duuuuuuude, they're ALL MADE UP. GET OVER IT!

I remember noting back in 5th grade English, that there is nothing coherent in the rules about grammar or word usage. Every freakin' day was merely learning yet another exception to some "rule."

My fourth grade teacher would go off when people said "ain't". She would say, "That word is a contraction. Are you trying to say 'ai not'?"

It didn't occur to me at the time that the word "won't", by her logic, would mean "wo not". If I ever invent a time machine, my first priority will be to go back and deliver a nice zinger. Then may I'll go back and kill Hitler or something.

Strictly speaking, ain't IS a contraction, but a diachronic contraction of multiple different expressions (such as "am not" and "is not").

Also speaking of weird contractions, "aren't" can be a contraction of "am not" (via amn't, which still exists in some dialects of English) as well as "are not," which is why "Aren't I your friend?" is grammatically correct.

It was the generations before 1980 that spread 'No Problem'It was what we said when we were asked if we could build something, invent something, accomplish a difficult task, fight for the right of freedomIts the newer ones that could only answer, "probably not, I'm too tired"So they cheapened 'no problem' into a lazy way of showing cratitude to others

Secret Agent X23:ciberido: Do you have the same objection to "I'm good" to mean "I don't need anything" or "No, thank you"?

No. Totally different, as you would probably infer from my above explanation.

Fair enough. I feared you might be one of those smug adjective/adverb folks who think they're smarter than everyone else but don't understand that "to be" is a copulative verb.

Not that there's anything wrong with not understanding that "to be" is a copulative verb. It's just wrong to misunderstand copulative verbs AND criticize other people's grammar. Which you weren't doing, so we're cool.

Gunny Highway:Huck And Molly Ziegler: If someone says "no problem" to me, I take that literally.That means, to cite one of the examples, if you say "no problem" to lending me $10,000, then I will ask you for money again and again until you reply with something more plausible, like, "Well, it was a little strain on the budget, but you've been a great friend over the years, so I was happy to have the chance to help you out."

Really? That is how you would interpret "No problem" in that situation? Really?

Taken literally, I think the interpretation has validity, as in, "It was not a problem for me to lend you money." If someone says it's not a problem, I could (in a dickish mood) take it to mean it's an acceptable operating procedure, one which can be repeated without causing hardship.

Of course, the realities of interpersonal interaction are more complex.

ciberido:Secret Agent X23: ciberido: Do you have the same objection to "I'm good" to mean "I don't need anything" or "No, thank you"?

No. Totally different, as you would probably infer from my above explanation.

Fair enough. I feared you might be one of those smug adjective/adverb folks who think they're smarter than everyone else but don't understand that "to be" is a copulative verb.

Not that there's anything wrong with not understanding that "to be" is a copulative verb. It's just wrong to misunderstand copulative verbs AND criticize other people's grammar. Which you weren't doing, so we're cool.

Well, I earn a large portion of my income these days by doing copyediting work. So my livelihood sort of depends on understanding stuff like that (as well as hoping other people continue not to). If someone writes, "I'm good," there's no problem (see what I did there?) unless it's in reference to the person's state of health. But if someone writes "I felt badly" (as they so often do), I'm changing that sucker to "bad" unless it's in reference to a defective sense of touch.

The genitive does not always indicate strict possession, but rather a general sense of belonging or close identification with. his train (as in "If Bob doesn't get to the station in ten minutes he's going to miss his train") Here, Bob most likely does not own the train and instead ''his train'' means ''the train Bob plans to travel on.''

However, if the idea interests you, I suggest the short story "Grammar Lesson" from The Draco Tavern by Larry Niven. An alien race has a language in which "my hand" and "my brother" use different determiners in a manner which seems to be what you're driving at.

Whether or not grammar rules support me isn't really relevant to it being a peeve of mine. To me it really boils down to it sounding like market speak, implying possession of something that doesn't yet exist (both the physical diploma and the abstract conception of the degree), as if on day one of attending college your degree exists and you have it already. The degree and diploma do not exist yet, you do not have them, you have not completed what is required to qualify for them, you cannot claim them to be yours on a resume, you should not be referring to them as if they were yours already.

This started when I was in the Army and people would talk about how they were "going to get their stripes" as if the rank was already theirs and the universe just hadn't realized it yet. "I'm sure I'll get my stripes next month" instead of "I'm sure I'll get promoted next month". One implies that these 'stripes' that represent rank exist and are truly yours, just for some reason you haven't yet been given them yet, the other implies a belief that an action will occur.

Mike Chewbacca:mama2tnt: ikanreed: "'No problem' communicates there was a problem but 'you're welcome' in no way implies its opposite by being said"--old idiot, so afraid of change that replacing a no-meaning conversation filling phrase with another no-meaning conversation-filling phrase is the biggest deal

When people say "no problem" they aren't aware that this old man is a problem.

Hate it when servers call everyone at my table "You guys" when we're all female. Why is this okay?