Has the Defense Checkmated Itself in Trayvon Martin Murder Case

“Professor could you explain, when you have a chance, Estes vs. Texas, 1965 in which the Supreme Court ruled that media coverage by its nature may taint potential jurors and damage a defendant’s ability to receive a fair trial? and how would Chandler v. Florida apply?

I chose this comment because it provides me with an opportunity to expound on yesterday’s post

Good question.

In Chandler, the SCOTUS in effect overruled the Estes prohibition against televising legal proceedings, leaving it up to the states to formulate rules controlling how the media may televise legal proceedings, including trials. In Chandler, the SCOTUS approved the Florida Supreme Court rule that the trial court applied to television coverage of the trial.

I do not believe the issue is whether the Zimmerman hearings can be televised. They have and they will continue to be televised.

The issue is what can the trial court do to minimize, if not eliminate, the potential prejudice to the defendant’s right to a fair trial by a fair and impartial jury that might result from the Court denying the defendant’s claim that he killed Trayvon in self-defense.

The problem is timing.

I believe Judge Nelson will reject the defendant’s claim of self-defense at the conclusion of a televised immunity hearing watched by a nationwide audience of millions. I also believe that 500 people in Seminole County will be receiving a summons to jury duty just after she announces her decision.

I imagine that many of those 500 people will report for jury duty knowing that the Court rejected the defendant’s claim of self-defense and those who have not heard the news will know it within 10 minutes after they enter the courthouse.

Will it be possible to seat a fair and impartial jury when every potential juror in the pool knows that Judge Nelson rejected the defendant’s claim of self-defense?

I do not know the answer, but I do know that, if I were the defendant, I would waive my right to an immunity hearing to avoid finding out the answer.

To be clear, I have no sympathy for the defendant and his defense team because they could have scheduled the immunity hearing long ago. Instead of trying their case in an immunity hearing, however, they chose to try it in the court of public opinion. Instead of gaining support, they have caused controversy and lost support. Now they have checkmated themselves.

For additional information on the intersection of the people’s right to know, which is protected by the First Amendment, and the defendant’s right to be tried by a fair and impartial jury, which is protected by the Sixth Amendment, please read Chandler v. Florida, 449 U.S. 560 (1981).

IF the defendant & his defence team were wise (and they’re not) and SO concerned with getting a fair trial, without jury bias, they shouldn’t have accepted the Hannity interview or subsequent interviews his brother has/is made/making AND not created the many social media accounts & web pages they have so far (the majority of which are now deleted) etc etc etc. They’re the only ones to blame for this, no one else, ergo I have NO sympathy for them either.

IF the defendant & family had not risen their, now apparent, racist heads, to publicly rebut the justifiable intentions of Trayvon Martin’s parents, via their attorneys Crump & Jackson, to receive their day in court, they wouldn’t be in the position they’ve made for themselves.

I wonder if you’re aware Professor, allegedly, the rulings of the defendant’s father, whilst a magistrate, were highly biased towards women & blacks. Is there any way you might be able to research this for us, in your capacity as an educator, as I can’t find anything on the web, so far. My rationale for such is: misogyny & racism is learnt from an early sensitive phase from one’s environment (parents, family etc) & the defendant has had a history with both of these abhorrent behaviours.

Thank you so much for your legal insights into this case, it’s been interesting, to say the least!

thank you kindly blushed – it has been a week from hell. they are starting to argue with each other FINALLY, which i consider to be a definite sign of healing and life back to normalcy. of course, neither realizes that mom is a zombie at this point – they are just happy to be raising their voices again. actually, truth be told, i am too, cause i’m a mommy and just want them to feel better. wish there was school to send them to tomorrow though – but daddy will be home and he can deal since i’ve taken the night shift all week and much of the day shift too.

on a case note, i cannot say how much i like judge nelson. as flip wilson (showing MY age here) would say

My parents gave us strict orders not to play their Pigmeat Markham and Mom’s Mabley’s LPs. My nephews came to visit one summer and let the cat out of the bag when one of them said a line from one of the jokes. All 4 of use ran outside real quick because we knew that would be the last time we were out in the fresh air for at least 3 days. LOL!!

🙂 Please, allow me to explain to give a better picture. My mom had a daughter, 11 months later a son, and 20 years after that, another daughter. My oldest sister and my mom were pregnant at the same time. My sister was born 3 months after my oldest nephew was born. My youngest nephew was born a year before me. I am the baby of the family.

When my nephews came to spend the summer, they were more like my big brothers and whatever the older kids did, I was always in the middle. How was a little girl younger than them suppose to tell them not to listen to those LP’s. LOL!!!

at blushed and unitron – X2. thanks for the reference unitron! now if we could get a definitive answer on where the phrase ‘the real mccoy’ started, i’d be delighted and would stop calling myself ‘faux’ 🙂

I went to refresh my memory on the version that had something to do with railroad locomotives and discovered Wikipedia has a much older source tying it to a particular brand of Scotch, a story which I had not heard before, but one which certainly seems plausible.

🙂 there are many legends about the phrase, so many it’s hard to tell which is ‘the real mccoy’. my poor grandmother in utah back in the 50s put up with crank calls from the folks in town who actually had TVs who asked ‘hey does your old man walk with a cane?’ she’d say ‘why yes, how did you know?’ the kids would giggle and hang up. she did not realize for the longest time they were making fun of her based on a silly TV show.

awww, unitron, thanks for sharing. i tend to think of all tv as silly, am not much of a viewer. i do thank my folks for letting me watch the smothers brothers though and enjoyed years of watching ‘gunsmoke’ with my daddy. i prefer listening to music (or making my own), reading and writing my own material than to watch the old boobtube.

Have you ever hand a professional head and neck massage by a very gifted, flexible-handed strong masseuse or masseur? (Women are often better at this than men because their fingrs are more slender.) I have an English friend whho learned the art in London. You will be deleriously relaxed after a session. The art is called “champissage” and the practice originated in India, where it is simply called “champi” — from the word for head. So shampoo (spelled “champu” in Indian, pronounced as we do) comes from India also. Not what you were thinking!

“Have you ever hand a professional head and neck massage by a very gifted, flexible-handed strong masseuse or masseur?”

I regret to say that I have not, but could sure use one about now.

Unfortunately around here I’m always the rub-er and never the rub-ee.

And thank you for the etymology lesson. Long an interest of mine, as the English language is one of my favorite toys and learning about word origins seems a good way to respond to “don’t put that in your mouth, you don’t know where it’s been”.

Of course I was merely punning in response to “faux” McCoy, and know that shampoo doesn’t actually involve, well, …

The sheer silliness made me laugh – and I am a person who rarely laughs – so congratulations on your artistic efforts. Kenny G and Michael B never looked … soooo … FAB!

I needed that chuckle,Faux, as I am heading off in a very few hours to the Annual Meeting of our Home Owners Association – and every thought we’ve ever had about HOA’s is eminently true! I’m on the Board, so I’ll let you know how/if my ballot choices prevail. To paraphrase, “If PiranhaMom ain’t happy, then nobody going to be happy at all!” It seems as soon as anybody signs up for a condo they go out and buy a new whiner & complainer suit – and wear it threadbare. They want every service given, but don’t want to part with a nickel. Since these are all individual homes in a large private park, obviously The Tooth Fairy isn’t doing all the mowing & landscaping for free. So thanks for sending me off into battle with a smile on my lips, Faux – much appreciated!

thank you Queen Patricia I – always glad to know that what i produce can make others smile. that was just a strange idea that hit me while christmas shopping with the hubster once and hearing some christmas concoction from hell featuring kenny G (being a sax player myself, i’m not that impressed). then i asked hubster who is significantly younger if he remembered the ‘gee your hair smells terrific’ ads. he didn’t, so i did an internet search and voila, it was off to the races for me and printshop 🙂

my sympathies on the HOA thing, my mom did that for quite a while in her actually gated retirement community and i wound up helping far more than i wished. other than that, i hope your day goes well!

well i shall take that as a compliment to my youth then and be delighted at 48 for being able to do so. i do remember flip wilson doing something to that effect, but i was quite young. i did get carded recently for purchasing an ‘adult beverage’ which i was only needing for cooking purposes, so this is feeling pretty good – don’t stop! 🙂

yes xena, they are old enough – ages 12 and 15 … also old enough to say ‘no! i don’t want to!’ and i don’t force them, only remind them whenever they say ‘my throat hurts’ what we all know to be helpful.

i was having to monitor temps exceeding 104 which can easily get into the danger zone throughout the night and wake them every few hours to dispense meds. my mother (a REAL nurse who attended a REAL nursing school in miami and graduated in 1958 with a REAL nursing license that is still valid) taught me well.

Ii was having to monitor temps exceeding 104 which can easily get into the danger zone throughout the night and wake them every few hours to dispense meds. my mother (a REAL nurse who attended a REAL nursing school in miami and graduated in 1958 with a REAL nursing license that is still valid) taught me well.

yes xena – a real nursing degree (which i define as RN) does not come from an internet course. i admit freely to mocking the zimmermans in this regard, only because i know what’s what. i have no problem with mocking them with their own words, it is the double edged sword that is free speech.

thanks, racer – doing better now, but it’s been one hell of a week. i have held my babies when they have gone into febrile convulsions before and it is horrifying. i’m glad my mamma the real nurse has been available to me throughout my parenting (and that’s where i learned to parent). but yes, we made a mad dash to the ER when i could no longer control the fever at home and one was vomiting blood. that was a few days ago and they are doing much better, but as a disabled mamma, i can say that i’m plumb worn out. step is nothing to mess around with.

why yes cielo, i do. i grew up in such a remote location as my father did before me, that learning to stitch each other up was common and 101 proof bourbon used to dull the pain internally and externally, regardless of the poor patient’s age. although my mom was the nurse, my dad the CPA/cowboy had more stitching experience. as a grownup with my own kids, i can treat a lot, but am grateful to live somewhat closer to an actual ER. it does however, take a lot to get me to go there and it must be necessary. my bottom line is ‘hey if you wanna get REALLY sick, go down and hang out at the ER’.

hence my comment, pat. i’ll treat at home for as long as is reasonably possible. my husband has learned in 17 years together though that when i do say ‘get this one (or me) to ER now!’ that i am not over reacting. that process only took 10 years and two babies though. i’ll tell anyone that i gave birth to my first daughter standing up, without so much as an advil and caught her myself. i had to wonder why the hell i’d gone to the hospital.

understood – hence my comment. i may be a bit younger, but am disabled (fought of cancer twice by age 40). my immune system is a mess and i do everything within my power to stay out of ERs and our local prompt care. if you wanna get a note to stay off work for a week, just go hang out at the ER for an hour or two.

when i took my daughter back in for the second appointment, some other teen was coughing all over me – when masks are offered as you walk in. i did not care what anyone thought, but grabbed the first nurse to have that kid masked. masks do little to help those of us who are well, but do a whole lot more to keep a sick one’s germs contained.

i think that ladies had it right up through the 60s when gloves were de rigueur day wear. when i lived and commuted in san francisco, i did not leave the house without a custom chapeau and vintage ladies’ gloves to ride transit. i grew up on a cattle ranch, dirt does not bug me, cow/horse droppings do not phase me – but unidentifiable human crud on city buses gives me the willies.

given how rural and isolated my upbringing was, i could not wait to R-U-N-N-O-F-T to san francisco at 18. i needed the crowds, the culture, the art, the music and i was very glad. i managed to get a very decent professional job for my age, made more money than anyone ought at 19 and had more fun than most folks should as well. i burned out on the professional crap after a few years, started throwing organic produce crates at my local hippy health food store and knew i was ‘home’. i may have been in the city, but never lost my cowgirl sensibilities

i also do not regret leaving it and moving back north to my humble beginnings, to finish college and raise a family. i am also glad that i was near my RN mom when i got the first cancer Dx at age 31 for hodgkins lymphoma, for the wonderful (and much younger) man who took a fancy to me at what was one of the lowest points in my life, that my children grew up here and that i have been able to be with my folks as they aged, and held my dad’s hand as he passed on 18 months ago.

Fauxmccoy- wow. Just wow. I want to laugh at you being such a cradle robber while also being joyful that you were with your father at the end of his road (or the beginning of a new one). Lymphatic melanoma took my maternal grandmother in her 80s. My prayers to you for your continued remission. You are one heck if a person!

Poor Trent, they kept playing with the sound he couldn’t keep it on target. Otherwise, the SP was able to make points using the CTH, not a big help to the defense. Good thing BDLR didn’t show Jd Nelson a fair sample of CTH fare, she might have turned purple with rage and issued an order. We don’t need her to do that.

Meanwhile MOM is frittering away precious time, wasting it on semantics, rather than on understanding the actual evidence. If he thinks that he’s going to be able to do his analysis on the spot, using what ever is implied by the SP’s own work, he’s got another thought coming. His best bet is to hire mental physicians in some (probably vain) attempt to attenuate GZ’s toxicity. But hey, wanna talk about justice? A wannabee Cop gets a wannabee Defense Attorney. 😀

That would leave a mark……Do you think she’ll be real concerned about what they say ? although, they have threatened her and the Professor, LLMPapa, one threatened me….hmmmmmm how do I rate that one….and pretty much anyone that is has a strong voice.

You’re right…..I guess that report will be oh….a few thousand pages then.

You can bet that Nelson will ask one of her clerks to prepare a summary of the CTH for her.

You know, I thought about that. Also, judges receive newsletters and alerts about matters that effect the court, and going back some years ago, that information advises judges on recognizing sovereign citizenship tactics.

@racerrodig. I anxiously await for the immunity hearing and/or trial for GZ’s phone records to be introduced into evidence. He was definitely on the phone when that pic was taken of the back of his head. And, I can’t help but wonder if there are any texts about the fight he got into that Friday or Saturday night.

I know for fact that there are at least half a dozen calls / texts before and just after the gunshot. One from him to Smith is in the report of phone calls in evidence. Saw it again the other day here.

I’m sure O’ Mara is going to fight them all way to the bitter end as being irrelevant or invasion of privacy. Who he called will be a real issue since the CCTV has time stamps and if he was heading to Target, is on TV and calls to Taaffe & Osterman pop up in those critical few minutes…..

the headline photo includes a photo of the killer, so he has become synonymous with the right to stand your ground– ironic that his brother and his lawyer both publicly have stated that this is NOT a SYG case.

TALLAHASSEE —
The Task Force on Citizen Safety and Protection released its final report on the controversial “Stand Your Ground” law — and it recommends that it should not be overturned.

The Task Force delivered their final report Friday morning to the Office of the Florida Senate President, Office of the Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives and the Executive Office of the Governor.
“The Task Force concurs with the core belief that all persons, regardless of citizenship status, have a right to feel safe and secure in our state. To that end, all persons who are conducting themselves in a lawful manner have a fundamental right to stand their ground and defend themselves from attack with proportionate force in every place they have a lawful right to be.”

What a bunch of fools… If someone, for example, makes a very loud noise, everyone draws their weapons and “stands their ground” against everyone else who has drawn a weapon. Yeah, that’s gonna make Florida a really safe state. But wait, the population in Florida is going to drop really fast at some point in time, so there will be lots of prime real estate for sale too cheap to resist. After all the idiots who voted for this law are gone, it can be scrapped and that real estate will be come valuable once again.

Well, babe, I used to stay out all night long
I made her cry, I done her wrong
I hurt my eyes open, that’s no lie
Tables turn and now her turn to cry

Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now
Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now

Well, I used to run around with every man in town
I spent all my money, playing my half ass’d games
We got put out, it was a pity how I cried
Tables turn and now her turn to cry

Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now
Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now

Well, I used to wake in the morning, get my breakfast in bed
When I’d gotten injured, put Band Aids on my head
But now she’s here and there, with every man in town
Still trying to shake me but I’m that same old clown

Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now
Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now
Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now
Because I used to love her, but it’s all over now

Jun says:
“If anyone supports the defendant, I am fairly sure it is for reasons not having to do with actually believing that fairy tale nonsense”

Some, imo, are just truly ignorant of the facts of this case.
All they know is what they read from the OS, or hear from O’Liar…
Those I can’t fault because they are just truly ignorant of the facts.
Their perceptions of this case are driven by the media (OS/Renee Stutzman), and the defendant’s attorney who’s main purpose is to spend as much time as possible to taint the jury pool, or gun nutz.
(I support the 2nd Amendment, NOT gun nutz)

Now, those at the CTH, that’s a whole different story…
They know many of the facts and are still just plain stupid.
There’s a big difference between ignorant and stupid!

If one goes out on the net and googles the major news sources, one finds that the stories being told are generally so pro Z that it’s hard to imagine anyone new to the matter, seeing this as anything more than a tragic mistake. Apparently we need a more vigorous effort to get the word out.

I guess the defense’s attempts to force BC to do depositions that might give up information they intended to use against GZ at the end of the criminal trial is what forced them to file their civil suit today. I’m wondering if the jury finds him innocent of murder, he could still be sued in civil court, right? That’s how it worked in the OJ trial. But, if the judge grants him immunity (highly doubtful), can the family still sue GZ and/or the R@TL?

His own admitted pursuit of Trayvon, for no reason allowed by law, is a crime! That crime is aggravated each time GZ admits he had a chance to inform Trayvon that he had a mission that was not intended to do harm to anyone. GZ kept that information secret, at best because he believed everyone knew who he was and what he was doing, or at worst because he actually intended to do harm. Your choice, but there was nothing at all about what GZ was doing that was legal.

I agree with everything you’ve written here about fogen and his chances of obtaining a fair trial. I’m not so sure about the judge’s decision’s impact on the jury at trial though. Judge Nelson has had, I think only 2 SYG immunity hearings. I read somewhere that in the last one she denied the defendant’s immunity but the jury acquitted the defendant. As much as I’d like to think that everyone sees what we see, there are those just as adamant as we are of his guilt that he is innocent of murder.

What the GZ supporters are trying to say is that, a black can be pursued and if they run they can be shot to death and all will be well because it’s a legitimate act of self defense, brought on by the subjects attempt to flee or stand their ground.

Let’s face it, the facts of this case boil down to; A private citizen with no power or right to do anything other than report to the police, any and all suspicious events. Failing to have seen an actual crime, GZ has no right to pursue anyone! As a NW he is instructed not to carry a firearm or to attempt to confront a suspicious person.

So, GZ saw someone he did not know, he pursued them with his firearm and he confronted them, then shot them to death! That is the long and the short of it! The person he pursued was no criminal, had done nothing wrong, thus had given GZ no reason at law to follow him at all. The police advised GZ not to follow, GZ refused this advice!

GZ was going to cause an innocent child to come under police scrutiny, simply because of his own, non criminal complaint. Then he pursued the teenager because he didn’t want the teen to escape, unwarranted police scrutiny. Had the police arrived and examined Trayvon, they could have done nothing at all to him, because there was no actionable activity that Trayvon could be blamed for! Nor would GZ be able to cite any activity for which the police should have even been called.

If, for example, GZ is to come out of his house and see any citizen walking or driving around, he would have as much reason to call the police to come examine them, as he did to call them for Trayvon. Meaning that he called the police for absolutely no reason at all. He also followed Trayvon for absolutely no reason at all, save that he himself had become delusional. An armed and dangerous, angry and delusional pursuer was exactly the kind of person, the law gives us all the right to defend ourselves against.

FYI there are excellent color photos on Axiom Amnesia takn in April by FDLE – about 4 rolls of 36 shots each – and the pix at the death site show, I think, the valve vault (this is a box buried in the ground where the various water valves are placed – with the pipes running underground. You lift the lid to check water usage on the dial, Top is around 15″ x 18″ but all you will see is the top at ground level.

Then there is another of equivalent size top for more underground valves (not in the ground, in the box) and that is probably for
potable (house) water.

I’ve handled lots of valve boxes and although they are very tough, they won’t cut you (at least so far) but I hate handling sprinkler heads and try to wear stockman gloves (leather) when I do, for protection.

Lonnie Starr has an interesting theory that GZ “injured” himself befor leaving his house to ambush Trayvon to provide an excuse he was attacked. Lonnie is VERY smart, and I wouldn’t accept that theory from anybody but Lonnie, so it’s a possibility

Otherwise I see the back-of-the head injuries coming from running into bushes between the sets or townhouses, or dragging across something in the ground that could cut “channel marks” across GZ’s head (sprinklers, or …?)

Front-of-the head blood I’m inclined to credit to the lightweight cheap Kel-Tek’s recoil to the mouth/nose.

Professor, is there anything that O’Mara has done and continues to do, in reference to this case that could be considered as being illegal? I’m just asking because, it sure seems to me that he has. for one thing, he is listening to and taking the advise from those who support his client. he set up his web site with just that in mind.
@Im no legal expert re American Law.
Im not sure illegal perse but refuseing to pay an agreed bill to a company for servises rendered.
Is kind of shady if not illegal.
And also being a recipitent of a legal manuvre to sue in civil littigation for payment of said monies/unpaid bill.

Both M O M along with foggen an SheLie are all on this civic summons.
That alone surely constitutes a clear conflict of all parties intrests in thease civil an criminal cases …m o o.

The wittness refered to as Dee Dee is not called that at all.
Its a nome de plume to protect her an also her family an loved ones.
Anonimity.
Any one of them damm phools over at the treehouse.
Nuts natural abode is trees

Whom think Dee Dee exists not once but twice ought to adopt the initials D D
As in Dumb an Dumber.

@colin black. DeeDee. Isn’t it funny how prophetic that name to protect her is. Double D’s. Zidiots theorize there is more than one DeeDee. So we have, prophetically, “D” for denied, denied, denied, denied. The more the Zidiots continue their false theory about DeeDee, the more energy they give the court to deny GZ’s and ShelLIE’s motions.

The Prosecution is laughing to themselves at this guy. The biggest question is, when will he implode. How often are we wrong on something and when we realize it slowly, we think, How do I minimize the embarrassment factor.

The stakes are a lot higher here and if he’s still in denial, he’s in for a catastrophic mental implosion sometime between 9:19 PM 2013 and Oh……….June 24th or so 2013. Ka – Boom !

If trial gets rolling June 10 as scheduled, and jury selection takes as long as MOM is projecting (doubtful), I’m thinking BDLR will keep it simple without too much nonsense, and the defense won’t have all that much to present. The jury shouldn’t be taking all that long. Is it unrealistic to think that Fogen could be all tucked in to his cell bunk by mid-August,? (That’s assuming he’s hauled into custody before formal sentencing.)

GZ will most likely be taken into custody immediately upon a guilty verdict. He won’t be sentenced right way because, today there are too many pre sentencing requirements that must be fulfilled. After the verdict the lights go out on this case, after a news cycle or two to announce the verdict and capture the drama. Then the lights will come on once again, briefly, at sentencing. Then it’s into the dust bin of history with Fogen. I see no precedents being set that would make this case a milestone or historic, so he’ll be forgotten pretty darn quick, unless “Hollywood” finds some use for his story.

(Yep, “Hollywood” is no longer a place, it has become a mythological).

I believe you’re right about him disappearing into the bowls of a prison and out of the spotlight. Unfortunately RZ Jr won’t stop yapping for some time about what is an obvious railroading and it’s all political. He’ll never be employed but will disappear eventually.

I don’t think Hollywood would make a movie with him as the focus, that would really be in bad taste the way they drove this. Trayvon and his family maybe a good focal point….FogenPhoole Pfffffttt !

“American Justice” would be about it and I can see Bill Kurtis as a cell door slides to a close behind him as he wraps up the tale of FogenPhooles sojourn through the system…..”I’m Bill Kurtis for
American Justice”

BUT how about an expose on “The First 48” on how the SPD made one covering blunder after the last..that would be cool.

Then it could be subbed as “The First 44” as in days before an arrest.

Agreed, Fogen is the ultimate child killing monster every parent has feared down through the ages. Just look at the contrasts, Trayvon an innocent, happy fun loving and respectful child with an aptitude for mathematics and machinery. Against the manipulative and violent narcissist failure who blames everyone else for his ultimate failure.

interesting, as well he should. i do not buy sutzman’s conclusions however, that filing such is a ‘get out of depo’ free card. crump has already submitted a very expansive affidavit to the court regarding his voice recording of W8.

there could be other issues of strategy related to the timing of this filing a few off the top of my head would be (a) statute of limitations, (b) an attempt to force the defense’s hand in requesting an immunity hearing, and/or (c) to affect donations made to the zimgravy train.

Don’t think Stutzman was concluding anything … she was reporting the story based on what’s now public info. Agree, however, with possibilities on a, b, and c. Certainly this puts Fogen on notice that no matter what happens, he’ll never see a dime to keep from his killing of Trayvon. The “great life” he and the missus fantasized about during their jailhouse phone calls was just that — fantasy.

her writing is bad enough and vague enough so that one never can distinguish between fact and renee’s desires. she will assert ‘fact’ and attribute it to nobody even when it is new information. she does state that perhaps crump filed in order to evade deposition (i am paraphrasing). i could not see where she attributed this to any other person, so was left to assume it was her conclusion. i detest this woman’s reporting for a number of reasons if i have not made it clear 🙂 thanks for noting that there are a number of other options — which is attributable to me. take that renee stuffman!

LOL, call it what you like, but all she does is take notes and write narratives, not reports. A report demonstrates the veracity of its facts, a narrative merely demonstrates the writers ability to write. 😀

Attorney Crump’s affidavit sets forth that Trayvon’s parents acquired his service to seek their legal options in civil suits against GZ. That was before GZ was arrested — when Lee said there was not sufficient evidence to arrest. Without a finding of immunity by the court, GZ’s ass was wide open to be sued.

West’s motion, to paraphrase, says that Crump has given media interviews, so the defense wants to depose Crump about what knowledge he has of the case.

Let’s go back to the beginning. Any information that Crump may have about the case that he knows beyond that which he has spoken about in the media, was obtained in his representation of Trayvon’s parents and therefore, is protected by the attorney-client privilege.

The Traveler’s Insurance cause of action filed in the federal court was for a declaratory judgment. They did not want to represent the HOA on Sybrina Fulton’s claim. That in fact, the HOA is the first named defendant on the petition. Traveler’s has since dismissed that cause of action.

I was a lifelong resident of Virginia, where Robert Sr. served as a magistrate, until my family moved to another state in mid-2006. I don’t believe that magistrates ever conducted ‘probable cause hearings’, although they could preside over bail hearings if a person was charged with a crime.

“Magistrates are independent judicial officers who work directly for the Supreme Court of Virginia, Office of the Executive Secretary. The principal function of the magistrate is to provide an independent, unbiased review of complaints of criminal conduct brought to the office by law enforcement or the general public. Magistrate duties include issuing various types of processes such as arrest warrants, summonses, bonds, search warrants, and medical detention orders. Magistrates also conduct bail hearings in instances in which an individual is arrested on a warrant charging him or her with a criminal offense. Magistrates provide services 24-hours a day, 365 days a year.”

Professor, is there anything that O’Mara has done and continues to do, in reference to this case that could be considered as being illegal? I’m just asking because, it sure seems to me that he has. for one thing, he is listening to and taking the advise from those who support his client. he set up his web site with just that in mind.

Although I read each comment daily, I attempt not to comment. However, in a recent post, 18 February, a contributor stated – “If I were GZ’s parents, I’d refinance my house or cash in my retirement to pay for an expert for my adult son, especially if I believed in their innocence.”

Unfortunately, we have no retirement that can be ‘cashed in’. Additionally, we can do nothing with our house because it is collateral for George’s bond. We must pay a mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities, HOA fees, and other expenses for a house we’re unable to live in. We must also pay for where we are currently staying.

Other family members, who we are also attempting to help, have been forced to leave their employment and relocate. As we have always done, we will continue to assist our children in any way possible.

As for my ‘believing in George’s innocence’. I believe I have a very thorough understanding of George’s actions on 26 February. I have presided over approximately 20,000 probable cause hearings, determining if individuals should be charge with a criminal offense. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that George should have never been charged with ANY offense – none.

“Letjusticeprevail: I have donated to GZ defense fund in the past because I believed GZ should receive a fair trial and be able have monies to support himself until this thing went to trial/immunity hearing. I was going to make another donation that was going to be continuous until the end of this thing. But with things working the way they are with the immunity being possibly combined into a trial and not sure of what MOM and Co’s goals are, I don’t want to pay money if attorneys are not working to the utmost to defend their client. It would just be a waste”

“….it would just be a waste” I’d say this may be the smartest one there.

LJP (Papa Z) didn’t seem to confidant in his post either. The rest of them are back to making a production of how FogenPhoole passed that inadmissible voice stress test and how they’d like to see Crump, Tracy, Sabrina, Dee Dee and everyone else fail it.

Donors are now set up to be scammed out of their cash by “experts” who will claim they can prove what the evidence and science will not allow. Of course they are welcomed to try. MOM and his supporter won’t know until their expert is cross examined, how foolishly their money has been wasted. Assuming these “experts” point to the Security lawsuit and demand cash in advance.

I don’t think the donors will be happy to see GZ headed for prison with 30k on his commissary account.

It’s like “Step right this way…..see the big show…..right this way ladies ‘n gentleman……see the Big Top Experts show how Fogen aimed his trusty Kel – Tek while laying on his back ….all the while mounted by “Black Dynamite Slim” and extended his arm……
Step right this way…..it’s just a one time, or more, donation, Step right this way…..yes sir boys ‘n girls…..go with a winner”

I think GZ will see it somewhere around in his 10th year in prison. 2023 is the target for him to realize that maybe he did something wrong. By then, if he’s lucky, he’ll only have 20 more years in front of him. But I wouldn’t count on it, I think Nelson should simply give him life and be done with it. Why take a chance on this fool dreaming up some new fantasy that threatens the life of some innocent citizen.

Yes, Jun. And not only is a voice stress test NOT a lie detector test, why would anyone think it unreasonable that someone who just shot and killed someone and had no change in their vital signs would have any change on a voice stress test.

Of course, there was no stress in GZ’s voice when he answered that certain question. GZ believed that had he not killed Trayvon, he would have been killed, AND, he told Hannity why — because he was terrified with the thought that the cops would arrive and find him standing there holding his gun on Trayvon and shoot him (GZ).

As a general rule, the first time a person kills someone, justified or not, they are usually traumatized by it. Even police officer and soldiers are, and they have been through rigorous training to deal with such an event and still they are traumatized. So, the question is begged: Has GZ been training for this himself? If so, where and how?

Secondly there is no “Pass/Fail” for voice stress tests. It merely detects whether or not the voice is stressed, that’s all. It could be stressed because the subject has a rock in their shoe for all the good it can do.

” Has GZ been training for this himself?” He may not have even been specifically training, but expecting he would do this. After all, I believe he has a “Why would I buy a gun if I never use it” mentality.

When I was the manager for a speed shop I had to take prospective hires to a PI for a polygraph test & current ones suspected of theft. We had one I had 100% proof he was robbing the place blind and he passed every time. He admitted to me that all he did was keep his mind blank, think of anything but the event that a question related to.

Lonnie Star~ I would think that to feel NO trauma at the taking of a life conclusively proves GZ is a psychopath. I even feel sick if I accidentally run over a squirrel or hit a bird! I would be needing medication if I ever had to kill a human being.

That’s what I mean by “gone horribly wrong” GZ is like DM but without the code, without the good sense, without the skill, without the understanding, without the brains, without a job, without the discipline… Hmmm… Come to think of it, he’s nothing like Dexter at all. 😆

racer…..It’s been suggested before that ‘LetJusticePrevail’ is actually R.Jr. As you know, he also comments on the HuffPo site. Yesterday the outhousers were yapping about how they really don’t trust O’Haha any more. They think that he is only in it for the publicity.

Actually…….LJP is Papa Z. It’s been proven, with many things…oh, and his IP address.

I have called him Papa, Beto, Berto, referred to Fogen as his son, ripped Jr to shreds and called him Jr’s dad and a whole host of things and there has never been a denial. When I do that he forgets he’s “role playing” and goes into tirade mode.

Fogen is on there with a dozen names also. The most notorious was newbee100. Many of us did the same thing. If you rile him up, he goes right to 1st person narration…it always started with….”were you there..” then spouted off as if he was. The more you rattle his cage the more he tried to “sell” you.

Collectively they have the IQ of a Kumquat….maybe..

This is why I have no doubt he’ll take the stand in an “…I’ll Phucking show you who I am….” manner Ohhhh it’s a comin’!!!!!

Notice whenever there is a court date…LJP’s not on HP. When he was out of the country awhile back, he was not on HP. Jr is using about 1/2 dozen names. Just look for the similar style. When Jr’s Twitter rants look like he’s drunk, which is fairly often, jump on HP and read the comments….same wording, same topic, same drunken rant. SheLie has been there under dozens of names.

You’ll notice that some people just set them up and knock them down like bowling pins……It’s child’s play!

racer…I stand corrected re: ‘LJP’. I knew about newbee100 being fogen and I also suspect ‘Emerald Circle’ is also fogen. When one of the socks starts talking about head bashing over and over, and like you said, “were you there?”, it really does sound like fogen.

” I have presided over approximately 20,000 probable cause hearings, determining if individuals should be charge with a criminal offense. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that George should have never been charged with ANY offense – none.”

According to what standard pop…..oh, my bad…..pop’s standard. I’ll bet there may be some unsolved murders in VA…..

Exactly, they sign search warrants when the prosecutor or police forward the information….green house tan trim XXXX Myrtle Avenue
XXXXville state and zip. Cause…stolen cars located on property, cars being dismantled, cars being towed to property, no sign of repair or vehicle pick up.

Pappy Z “………..ok, the next case is a shooting and the deceased’s name is……..wait a min……….oookay…….here it is, one Calvin Johnson” And the name of the alleged accused is Jeffrey
McDonnell (under breath oww nice Irish kid)”

“Okee Dokie now, the defendant, can I refer to you as “Jeff” was allegedly in the process of stealing Johnson’s car, is that correct?”

“Okay your honor, but I just was lookin’ to get a ride and well…”

“So you were trying to be responsible and get to work on time if you get my drift…”

“Uh……yeah…..work on time, that’s the ticket..”

Police Officer “That’s not even close sir, read the report, he chased Mr. Johnson with a gun, then went back to the car. When Mr. Johnson returned, thinking McDonnell had fled, he was attacked and shot. He succumbed at the scene. Johnson was found with possession of the car, the murder weapon and McDonnell’s wallet.”

“Well………….as I see it, that’s not proof enough.”

“Your honor, how does Johnson come to have possession of his wallet”

“I’d say he probably found it and was going to return it….”

“Return it……yeah, that’s the ticket..yeah”

“OK now, next time make sure you get that wallet back quickly so there are no more misunderstandings.”

” I have presided over approximately 20,000 probable cause hearings, determining if individuals should be charge with a criminal offense. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that George should have never been charged with ANY offense – none.”

Whoa there. If this is an accurate quote from Pops Fogen, then what he’s saying (although he’s too unschooled to realize it) is that there’s no way that Fogen should NOT have been charged. Those double negatives will get you every time.

Bet people who got a raw deal from this nincompoop back in Virginia will be looking into a review of his actions..

@Trained Observer. Papa Zim is yanking the Zidiots’ chain. Magistrates make decisions on probative issues, such as issuing summons or alias summons. They sign off on things that get cases started with one party (the government) present.

Magistrates cannot make decisions on substantive issues. Papa Zim doesn’t have a JD and license to practice law. If he resolved conflicts between parties, he would be practicing law without a license.

A U.S. magistrate judge is a judicial officer of the district court and is appointed by majority vote of the active district judges of the court to exercise jurisdiction over matters assigned by statute as well as those delegated by the district judges. The number of magistrate judge positions is determined by the Judicial Conference of the United States, based on recommendations of the respective district courts, the judicial councils of the circuits, and the Director of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts. A full-time magistrate judge serves a term of eight years. Duties assigned to magistrate judges by district court judges may vary considerably from court to court.

This man is lying and, the truth is not in him. there is no way that these people have been forced to leave their home nor have the rest of the KKKlan in that family been forced to leave their homes and jobs either. if it is true that they have been threatened, then why not put forth the hardcore evidence of maybe calls to LE reporting these threats.

What a way to hoodwink a bunch of racist *idiots* out of money in order to finance their son’s defense. I can surely tell you that I feel the same way towards the father, as I do towards the son. BTW, how in the hell would anybody know where these family members lived and worked in order to communicate any threats to them?

This man is such a a BOLD FACED LIAR AND HE KNOWS IT. he must think that the rest of society is as dumb and foolish as he is. with him being LJP over at HP, it would stand to reason that he would donate to his son’s cause. he is too dumb to realize that we the people know who LJP really is. he’s none other than the father of Fogen.

Actually, if the Zims are property owners in Florida, their names, addresses, what they paid for the parcel, and what they pay in taxes is all visible online — unless they’ve moved to legally stick the property under a trust with an obscure name. Some counties have sites that show blueprints of the structure on the parcel and some even show pictures.

But I agree … people would gossip and possibly even shun them at the grocery. But it’s a stretch to think they would have been endangered, especially after Fogen was finally arrested and charged.

One thing RZSr didn’t mention is that his house is being used as collateral because his son was not honest with him or with the court (indirectly) about having funds that were to be used (according to SZ) to help with bond. They had enough money for the original bond without relying on his parents to put up their home. If the home was also involved in the second bond payment, that resulted by no one’s nonsense but his son’s.

Here’s another one from LJP on the begsite.
He sounds like a CHEERLEADER! (Ugh!~)

OK! We THINK we got some GOOD news yesterday when the defense team announced that they would meet the first month’s fundraising goal for George’s defense fund, RIGHT?

WRONG! And I will tell you WHY I say this!

Meeting a short term goal like this SEEMS like a VICTORY, but the reality is that it presents a GREATER CHALLENGE THAN EVER!

Too often, people relax when they THINK they are winning the race! It’s not that they stop caring, but what happens is, they become OVER CONFIDENT!

Right now we need to come out even stronger, posting George’s message wherever we can, in every blog,and in every newspaper comment section!

And I’m not just talking about articles related only to this case. I am talking about news items on topics like Gun Control, SYG Legislation, Crime Stories, Police Corruption, Civil Rights, Proposed Legislation, YOU NAME IT!

I ESPECIALLY LIKE TO POST THESE COMMENTS TO THE “FLUFF” STORIES ABOUT PLANNED RALLIES FOR TRAYVON MARTIN. YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED HOW MANY PRO-ZIMMERMAN PEOPLE READ THOSE STORIES, TOO!

i have set a personal goal: At the end of the NEXT 30 days, I want to see the defense team post a statement that will SAY THEY DOUBLED THEIR FUNDRAISING GOAL FOR THAT MONTH!

Does that sound crazy? NO! I KNOW THIS CAN BE DONE! BUT….

YOU HAVE TO START TODAY! Remember this:

There was an important job to be done, and Everybody was asked to do it.

Everybody was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody’s job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.

EACH AND EVERY DAY THIS MONTH MAKE 5 COMMENTS TO NEWS ARTICLES AND BRIEFLY EXPLAIN GEORGE’S STORY, AND ASK THE READERS TO NOT ONLY DONATE TO GEORGE’S FUND AT THE GZ LEGAL CASE WEBSITE, BUT TO ALSO MAKE 5 POSTS, THEMSELVES!

“… I have set a personal goal: At the end of the NEXT 30 days, I want to see the defense team post a statement that will SAY THEY DOUBLED THEIR FUNDRAISING GOAL FOR THAT MONTH!…”

My personal goals generally tend to be stuff that I have some CONTROL OVER. You know, lose weight, quit smoking, be nicer to a nasty boss etc etc.

So his goal is to see a particular defense team post? and he will achieve that how?

Yeah well the way they deal with the truth, they COULD put up such a post anyway, whether the money came in or not. So what does he actually want? the money to come in? or just to see the post about it, true or not?

And its HIS personal goal, so right away he tells his readers, YOU have to start today.

So now it’s not to save GZ or keep him in KFC, it’s to avoid disappointing Papa?? where do these people get off?

Cute, Who cares where he or his family members live. Not one person is looking to harm him or his family. I think that this whole family may be delusional why do they feel as if they can’t live in there home. They remind me of the defense crying about the media influence while creating the said influence. Smh! Know one cares about RZ or the rest of his family, if they stay out of the media and off of social sites we wouldn’t think twice about them. We only care that Forgen committed a crime against a child and that he be held responsible. RZ your son is going to jail because that is where he deserves to be for the crimes he committed against Trayon. Maybe we should look at sod of you cases huh? I wonder what will we find.

The Magistrate’s “probable cause hearings” amounted to some cop telling the Magistrate there was probable cause for a search [or other] warrant and the Magistrate saying, “OK, here’s your warrant” and signing it. In Virginia, that could be a warrant to inspect the zoo to see if they are hiding animals.

Oh, yeah, and I forgot something about Magistrate Zimmerman Senior. When a cop like Billy Lee came up to him and said, “Hey Rob, ya’know, this kid here just had to kill a thug, so we don’t really think there’s probable cause to search his truck or nothin’ right?” Ole Magistrate Rob would say, “Darn tootin right, Billy. Send him home and make sure he puts some ice on that broken nose.” Magistrate. Virginia. I can tell you, absolutely.

I don’t believe the defense has checkmated themselves, I believe that rather than that, they actually never intend to face an immunity hearing, because they know they cannot win. But, they also know that as soon as they admit that they cannot win an immunity hearing, their chances of attracting donations will grow vanishingly slim.

So, to get the best of both worlds they drag their feet and pretend that there’s much work to do before such a hearing can be held. They’ve asked for more time and been refused, as they knew they would be, but now they’ve got another issue to use. They can now blame the court for short circuiting their plans to go for an immunity trial. The ol’ “woe is me the clock ran out!” Instead of the true: “We’ve no choice but to keep hiding as long as we possibly can!”

@ Lonnie you are so correct. I believe that the defense is trying to drag this out as long as they could because they know the fate of their client at the immunity hearing. The clock is ticking, and after the immunity hearing it will start to sound like a time bomb getting ready to explode. they want to push this whole matter as far back as possible so that their client can spend the next 2 or 3 years out of jail. we heard him during the Feb. 5th court date, ” i can tell you now that we will not be ready.” MOM knows exactly what he is doing.

The Court has a right to proceed as if the defense had not waived it’s right to a speedy trial. Just because the defense waives it’s right to a speedy trial, does not mean that they get unlimited time to prepare. But, these time/preparedness plays are just games attorney’s play. The defense will insist on a speedy trial, in an effort to prevent the prosecution from developing the evidence they need. If the prosecution has more than enough evidence to convict, the defense wants to drag it’s feet as long as is possible, in the hopes that it can get lucky, that evidence degrades, is lost, witnesses get ill, pass away or otherwise become unavailable or a meteor or earthquake or other natural disaster intervenes and prevents the trial.

In this case the Court will order them to trial to do the best they can under the circumstances. Since it is not a capital case, there is plenty of time for appeals if new evidence is developed. GZ should have at least 30 years to work on his case from a secure position where he is provided with housing, meals, clothing and even laundry service. I can see him on Hannity in 2043: “I didn’t have time to reflect, I was in prison for 30 years!”

“: “I didn’t have time to reflect, I was in prison for 30 years!” except the times I was in my cell and obviously I had time them.

I saw twice where a Judge went through this garbage just like
O’ Mara is doing, once criminal, once civil trying to delay when they had over 2 years to prepare. In the criminal case the Motion for continuance was heard the day of the trial. When the Judge denied it, the next words were…..Is the State of NJ ready to commence ?

Well, anyone who has visited a court house and watched any cases will know, as well as the Professor will instruct us; not being ready is not a reason to get a continuance. Getting a continuance depends on the reason that the defense is not ready. If it’s something the defense could have done, or should have done before, they will have to face trial without it. The Court is not going to wait until a time machine is built so the defense can prove it’s case!

Why in the hilly hay stack would the defense be entitled to have the address of witnesses. it seems to me that this is just another lame attempt for them to get at DeeDee. why are the doing this when they know the month of June is a mere 4 months away and, they insist on filing motion after motion in the hopes of forcing this judge to set another date.

I might be wrong but, I don’t think the addresses of the witnesses should be of any concern to the defense.

My understanding is that the only reason NOT to provide a witnesses address is out of concern for his/her safety. For example, if I witness a murder and the defendant is a member of a gang, he could order a hit on me so that I won’t testify. Keep in mind the addresses of these witnesses will not be released to the public; Only the defense will see them. So the Judge Nelson will have to determine if defense poses a danger to the witnesses.

Why in the hilly hay stack would the defense be entitled to have the address of witnesses.

IIRC, Judge Nelson told the defense that if they wanted addresses for the witnesses, they could ask those witnesses when they depose them.

It should be reasonably presumed that the feds as well as the prosecutors have notice and evidence of the illegal doxing conducted by Zidiots on the internet. To protect the privacy of witnesses, the defense should not be allowed to obtain addresses until deposition and even then, those addresses should be redacted on transcript and any recordings.

I don’t understand why motions for protective orders haven’t been filed for witnesses who need some protection of privacy, safety, or whatever. Would the witnesses need private counsel to do that, or could BDLR do it?

It’s funny how the unnamed witnesses are listed in order… except for Witness 8. That’s what this motion is really about. They want to know more about Witness 8 before they depose her. The defense wants to talk to neighbors and friends prior to interviewing her. It also seems to be an avenue for a potential appeal. If Judge Nelson rules against the motion, there appears to be legal precedence to overturn not just this ruling, but also a conviction.

Just seeing how the defense is treating this case, I believe that before it’s all said and done, a lot of people in this country and maybe the world, will damn the day and curse the hour they ever heard of George Zimmerman. I know I do!

@creepytwins
This was the FDLE response to the defense when they wanted the “Bio’s of witnesses from them. If I am understanding correctly, they are now trying to ask the State for the same information. The family’s addresses are all in care of the State. West is trying to get the data, I don’t think he will get them, for the same reasons cited in the FDLE response.

Today’s defense motion is simply asking for their addresses, not their full bios. FDLE did not specifically mention their addresses in the 2/1/2013 document, but did get into specific details about other biographical information, such as social security numbers and social media. The document is very specific. Did they forget to mention address as one the the pieces of bio information they were withholding? Was it simply an egregious error by the prosecution?

Think about this… At a deposition, the defense team can ask for the witness’s address. Judge Nelson instructed them to do so back in October. Then they can use that information to investigate a witness and re-depose him/her before the trial starts.

>>>>Today’s defense motion is simply asking for their addresses, not their full bios. FDLE did not specifically mention their addresses in the 2/1/2013 document, but did get into specific details about other biographical information, such as social security numbers and social media. The document is very specific. Did they forget to mention address as one the the pieces of bio information they were withholding? Was it simply an egregious error by the prosecution?

IANAL, but I am thinking that because it wasn’t included in the FDLE response, West saw an opportunity to request them. Common sense tells me if a request was made that includes your name and social security number and any other identifiables, an address would surely come about. Maybe that’s why they left it out, who knows.

Depositons may be taken and questions can be asked, not sure if they have to give out their address though, but If it was me, I would say in the care of the state.

The defense claim is bullshit. They do not have any right to interview neighbors, friends or even enemies before they depose a witness. In fact they have no right to interview anyone.

They have a duty to investigate the case, but the people they seek to interview are not required to answer any questions.

Florida is one of only a few states that permits defendants to depose witnesses under oath in criminal cases. Other than the discovery rules that require the prosecution to disclose exculpatory information, identify the witnesses it intends to call during its case in chief, and disclose any statements or reports they made, the prosecution is not required to disclose anything else.

Given the disgusting and probably criminal effort by people with whom the defendant and his defense team are closely associated to identify and intimidate W8 by subjecting two girls they mistakenly believed to be W8 to vicious and vile character assassination, I cannot imagine any judge would grant the defense request.

I think the request itself is a hostile declaration of war designed to intimidate the witness by signalling that the defense intends to interview everyone she knows to collect all the dirt, rumor and innuendo they can possibly find in order to confront her with all of it at trial destroying her character and credibility utterly and completely.

Never mind that she did not kill anyone, is not on trial or accused of a crime, and the rules of evidence would not permit the defense to introduce any bad character or bad act evidence against her, assuming they found any.

I also note that the defense has already deposed many witnesses without insisting that they first interview everyone who knows the witness.

Evidently obtaining background information was so necessary and important to the defense that they blew through over $300,000 in less than a year without hiring one.

Let’s suppose that Witness 8 refuses to give these stalkers her address. MOM will file another motion asking the court to compel the prosecution to release her address. If Judge Nelson denies their request, it will get appealed. The argument before the appeals court will be whether or not the defense poses a threat to the witness. And I don’t believe a threat exists. There is legal precedence that the defense is entitled to at least some minimal information about his accusers including his/her name and address.

My point is that the defense will get the information they are requesting eventually. Even the lowest form of scum, such as a child killer, is entitled to know who his/her accusers are.

Let’s suppose that Witness 8 refuses to give these stalkers her address. MOM will file another motion asking the court to compel the prosecution to release her address.

Not actually. If a deponent refuses to answer a question during deposition, O’Mara would then need to motion the court to compel the answer from the deponent — not from the prosecution. The prosecution does not represent the deponent. That gives the deponent opportunity to challenge the motion to compel.

I don’t understand why motions for protective orders haven’t been filed for witnesses who need some protection of privacy, safety, or whatever. Would the witnesses need private counsel to do that, or could BDLR do it?

Wouldn’t the identity of any witness include their name and address? Is that not the standard set by the State of Florida?

You wrote above that safety isn’t really a concern because witnesses are rarely harmed. So I’m having a hard time figuring out why FDLE won’t release the addresses and an even harder time figuring out why the 2/1/2013 document did not specifically mention their addresses if they are, in fact, withholding the information from the defense.

I think the prosecution is actually hurting their chances of getting a conviction to stick. And at the same time, the potential jury pool is seeing the state withhold this basic information from the defense. I just don’t see how it helps the prosecution.

Witnesses have already been intimidated by the scorched earth campaign of character assassination waged by the defendant’s supporters against the two girls in Miami they mistakenly believed to have been DD.

I imagine every civilian witness in the case, especially DD, knows what happened and is to varying degrees intimidated or concerned about it.

The prosecution has a duty to protect its witnesses from these attacks or its witnesses in this and other cases or may decline to get involved by deciding not to call 911 in situations where they witness a crime being committed.

Even if Omara appeals it, it does not mean he will win the argument. The argument put forth, which is legally sound as protected via state and federal law gives all the witnesses, including 8, the right to not give out her personal and private information, especially to a homicide defendant. All w8 would need to do is show the tweets by Junior and the numerous threats purported by Fogenhats’ gang. W8 and all the other witnesses should not be threatened and intimidated just because the defendant chose to stalk and kill an unarmed kid, a kid who was walking home with skittles and ice tea. She was a right IMO to not subject her life and her family and friends life to threats to their safety just because they happened to witness something. The only right the defendant has is to confront the witnesses against them, not invade their life. Numerous people who have snitched on the mafia are also granted the exact same right to not divulge their personal information, so what makes you feel Fogenhats is more special?

The defendant is not the mafia; He’s just a wannabe cop who’s running scared because he killed a kid. I find it hard to believe that the court would make an exception in this case. And as far as his evil minions in the blogsphere, the witnesses’ addresses are not going to be released to the public.

“Why doesn’t Fogenhats give out his personal information to all the witnesses?”

Everyone knows where he lived at the time of the killing. The prosecution has already investigated everything about him and everyone he knows. Do you think the prosecution doesn’t know at a minimum the name and address of each and every witness in this case?

“how in your mind could any witnesses current contact info be relevant and open to public scrutiny?”

To make sure you’re questioning the right person. There are a lot of Jane Smiths on the planet. Actually, I’m wondering if the defense even gets to know the name of Witness 8. Or is the key witness for the prosecution allowed to remain completely anonymous?

Also, the defense might be interested in matching her location with the ping logs. Was she at home when she spoke with victim? Was her environment quiet enough to hear the sound of grass through a cell phone conversation.

i think you are really hung up on this. the professor has pretty much answered your question, as has FDLE’s attorney. W8’s name is already known to the defense if i am not mistaken. when she takes the stand, she will have to state her name and take an oath. at that time, the public will know who she is. there is absolutely no reason to divulge her location now and likely not at trial. her whereabouts at the time of the murder are not relevant even; matching ping logs is a silly waste of time. people who were eye witnesses will have to state where they were when the saw some portion of the event but witness 8 saw nothing, only heard via phone.

Did BDLR raise such a fuss when ShelLIE and Papa Zim testified via telephone? Maybe the State should have required that ShelLIE first submit a sample of her voice and ping logs from where she was calling from to verify her identity before she testified????

It sure is. The Zidiots have a conspiracy theory that there is more than one DeeDee. They would like to prove their conspiracy theory, so want DeeDee’s personal information. How is that going to prove the Zidiots’ theory unless they produce the (non) DeeDee and then prove it’s the (non) DeeDee? BULL. They just want DeeDee’s personal information so they can denigrate, terrorize, threaten and intimidate her not testify at trial.

Has the state responded to this motion yet? The defense has a habit of filing these motions dangerously close to the 48-hour deadline set by the judge in order to disallow any response. What are the rules on this?

The point is, they do not have to divulge any of their personal information to the defendant

All they have to do is confirm at trial they were there, and probably do a sort of in camera thing to protect their identity from the defendant

And the fact remains, none of the witnesses have Fogenhats’ personal information, or where he is presently living, so why does it matter where any of the witnesses reside?

As already seen, the Fogenhats gang has already intimidated who they deemed to be witness 8 and they also threatened witness 9

Junior has threatened lawyers

The witnesses and the state have a good argument not to divulge that information because Junior and Fogenhats’ gang is a threat to their safety and privacy

I think you have human rights twisted beyond recognition

Shellie, Pops Z & The Mom Z, all testified via phone during the first bond hearing

What gives them the right to privacy and anonymity over the witnesses?

Its a ridiculous request and the FDLE already suggested an in camera to protect the witnesses, and my guess is only the lawyers can look at it and have to swear to its safety otherwise facing legal action

Creepytwins, Fogen knows who his accusers are. The People of the State of Florida are his accusers. W8 is merely a witness. He will have a chance to confront her at trial. That’s what trials are for. That, also, is why Judge Lester did not grant O’Mara’s foolish motion to allow Fogen to testify without being exposed to cross-examination. Let the defense cross-examine prosecution witnesses (monitored and refereed by the judge) just as the prosecution can cross-examine defense witnesses. That’s how it’s done.

MOM has said that he doesn’t believe that GZ can stand up to being cross examined. LOL. After watch his performance on Hannity, I have to wonder what makes MOM think GZ can even stand up to direct? LOL

ladystclair
As I’ve said many times before, NO other murder victim or his/her family have ever encountered this kind of hatred and harsh treatment as we are witnessing in this case.

I respectfully must add,the trail of Jodie Arias is going on now and from what I’ve seen and read she is also claiming self defense. More than 27 stab wounds and then shot in the head? Self defense? She is also claiming she is an abused woman and Travis Alexander was into children. Nothing has been forund to supprt that claim but his sisters are sitting in the courtroom having to listen to this person malign him.
I’m going to keep Trayvon’s family in prayers,MOM will really go after him with no holds barred,and no evidence either.

With all due respect to you and your comment, there are no web sites such as the CTH, HP as well as some others who are permitting racial HATRED against this woman now is there? there are no sites where people are dissing this woman’s victim as well as his family. I have read some pretty nasty comments being posted with nothing but hatred toward this CHILD VICTIM AND HIS FAMILY.

Not to mention the fact that the attorney for the family has been disrespected by these people also. this case has brought out the really ugly in a lot of people for no reason other than the fact, that this victim was an African American child and so goes the support of his murderer by racist whites. there are even mothers involved in supporting this SLIME BALL and, that to me is very disgraceful. they never stop to think that, this could easily be my child one day. no, they don’t think about that and it’s all because of the race of this child.

Sorry but, you can’t compare the two cases and, with all due respect you are fooling yourself to even try.

Have to just try for as impartial as possible. I think that is part of O’Mara’s plan. He is keeping this in the media and he doesn’t care which way you feel about GZ, just so you feel something, trying to make the jury as impartial as he can so he can whine that he can’t get an impartial jury. But too effn bad, its his own fault.

Ditto in reply to Rachael’s comment. the low life attorney is doing all he can to taint a possible jury pool. it seems to me, that some of the things this man has done should be illegal for an attorney to do in such a case as serious as this one.

Setting up a blog site as well as a donation site for his client, are two that come to my mind as being wrong and, it should also be considered illegal.

to gbrbsb It sounds like Denis had a wonderful life thanks to you all.My yellow lab Lady’s hind legs went as well.The vet told me It would be selfish to not have her put to sleep.So I took a week off work brushed her coat till the end.It’s been 5 years but I still think of all the joy she brought.You sound amazing.Our cat got hit by a car and crawled home after us searching for her for 3 days ,eye hanging out ,maggots,split jaw,My son was able to give me the money to have neccesary surgery.She’s 13 acts like a kitten.She of course has one eye.hoping eventually some other dog will be lucky enough to be adopted by you but for now it’s time for healing.

I so know the pain. Many years ago the first dog I owned as an adult was put to sleep on the vet´s advice for exactly the same reason, and to this day his look full of life and trust as he closed his eyes still haunts me. I was dreading the same with Denny but with my partner having two disabled sons it dawned on me we wouldn´t put them to sleep, so by the time he lost his legs I had researched all about disabled dogs and was able to inform the vet that for as long as Denny was happy, pain-free and with his usual love of life we would stand with him. But we were very lucky too, he was a lot of work his last year and it was only because we care for the “boys” at home that we had time to attend to his special needs so that he could continue to lead a full and active life to the end and to make our last summer together precious for us all.

I hope your cat has a long and happy life… a hard lesson she had to pass but it´s clear she is in the very best of loving hands.

Thank you professor. I spent a very emotional day yesterday touched by the kind response demonstrating how important these creatures are to most of us. It is clear that despite their lives being far too short and knowing the inevitable heartfelt pain we must suffer down the line, and although many of us at those times, myself included, swear, “Never again, it´s just too painful!”, what they give to is so very special and so fulfilling while it lasts that most of us take one on again.

Yes… and you have to try to see past their love and devotion which keeps them here but to not hurt them you know they have to go! Such a difficult balance!

gbrbsb,
We too lost our beloved companion and friend last year following a short and desperate effort to save him (congestive heart failure). Our cat hating dog sent a feral cat one week after his passing as a joke. He’s greatly missed, and the cat has proven to be a handful , but we’ve learned to love her too.

Sorry for your loss! I recently had to put a dog down who had gradually become too aggressive. It’s heart-wrenching when you love an animal dearly and try to do everything possible to fix the problem. My heart is broken.

How can the defense and this Renee person for the Orlando Sentinel, state that DeeDee’s credibility is in question? they are saying that she misrepresented her age at the time of Trayvon’s death. I don’t under stand how they can say such about this young woman, especially since there has not been that much put out about her. these people had better watch what they are saying about someone who they don’t even know.

What ever her age may be, it has nothing to do with the fact that Fogen murdered Trayvon and, this girl heard the talk leading up to that murder of Trayvon. the defense is trying to ruin the reputations of everybody except the guilty one in this case and, that person is Fogen himself. it doesn’t matter if she was 16 or 99 it still changes nada about the night Fogen committed murder and his victim was an innocent unarmed child.

This Renee person is biased towards the defense and, she doesn’t mind showing it either.

True that Jun concerning all of the misrepresentations which Fogen has put out there. they are going through the wrong cell phone with a fine tooth comb, when it’s the murdering Thugboat’s phone that needs to be and should be dismantled for what is likely a treasure trove of evidence against his OBESE behind. I’m really getting sick and tired of the hate, that’s being directed at Trayvon and his family.

As I’ve said many times before, NO other murder victim or his/her family have ever encountered this kind of hatred and harsh treatment as we are witnessing in this case. It’s not right and these people know that what they are doing to this family is wrong. smdh

LOL you should see what the last refuse at the outhouse say about her. They think there are 2 DeeDees, and they are both fake, and oh my, they go on for days about she hears grass and just tearing her apart. On top of the age thing. They make Renee look absolutely reasonable.

i suppose it all depends upon the age at which they started kindergarten and if either was held back or moved forward a grade (i experienced both). martin was ever so slightly older than the average junior but ‘dee dee’ could be up to six months younger or so. if i were to guess, it would be that she was a minor at the time of the incident and may or may not still be.

i realize this resolves absolutely nothing 🙂

my only wish, having heard her statement is that she be treated with the utmost of kindness and respect considering her age, what i sense as real vulnerability, the fact that she lost her very good friend at a tender age, and that unfortunately she strikes me as woefully inarticulate and thus, somewhat difficult to understand.

my mother’s family hails from georgia and the florida panhandle and i have spent much time in the area as well as in miami where dee dee lives. although my family is not black and there are some differences in dialect from that obviously, i find her difficult to understand on both an audible and cognitive level. if you compare her spoken words to those of the same area/back ground (tracy martin and sybrina fulton as great examples) i can tell a noticeable difference, whether it is due to age, socio-economic conditions or education levels, i cannot tell. just so that you are aware, i am an anthropologist by education with a decent back ground in linguistics. because of my family’s location, i generally have no difficulty with the dialect of that area.

The whole mess of them except Doris Singleton have to be the WORST interviewers! I would be listening to the tapes and would want to yell at them, “Shut up! Let the witness FINISH THE SENTENCE!”

They were totally unskilled, knew nothing about drawing information out of people, ignored what the witness was about to say or trying to say, were cold, official, IMPATIENT and clearly felt MILES above the people they interviewed.

It was like interviewing was a burden and an annoying part of their job — and hardly necessary.

” ” these people had better watch what they are saying about someone who they don’t even know.” ”

of this

“I don’t under stand how they can say such about this young woman, especially since there has not been that much put out about her. these people had better watch what they are saying about someone who they don’t even know.”

before you said

“So another minor who did nothing wrong in any way is now fair game”

Any reasonable person who read both comments would think you were referring to the young lady as another minor in addition to Trayvon.

If by another minor you really did mean Trayvon, which other minor was previously “fair game”?

Your routine is blatantly obvious. You defend SheLie like there is no tomorrow. Why ??

She Lied !! Anyone who thinks otherwise has an agenda. I noticed that you never actually say anything about the actual crime, the heinousness of it, accept any facts, agree they lie like rugs, cheap rugs at that, yet you are 1st in line to “correct” everybody that has an opposing view….Strange ??

I can’t stand looking at Renee. She makes me want to hurl. She is not a legitimate journalist. She just likes to think she is. She is totally biased towards the defense. I would have more respect for her if she would just remain neutral and state the facts as a polished journalist should do. Even if she did believe Fogen. I can’t recall the interview, but it was some time ago that she was put to shame for stating rumors as true. She had no valid rebuttal. He (whoops! I mean She) looked like a total idiot.

If she cant tell that the defendant is questionable in regards to his claims of what happened and the fact that he killed a kid and numerous witnesses described it as a kid screaming for help and the rest, with the exception of witness 6, at the very least stated that there were screams for help which were ended by a gunshot suddenly

I dont understand this stand by the killer media storm we see a lot of

I think the majority of those who support Fogen are outright racists, wanting him to get away with the murder of an African American. They could careless that he is Latino or Jewish. I also think there are some who are prejudice underneath but don’t have the guts to say this is how they really feel; So they just mask it by trying to appear neutral with minimal effect. You ever notice that the majority who support Fogen, also hate Obama, and the “liberal media” or make statements to that affect.

Blushedbrown you make the Dewey decimal system look like 52-card pickup.
rnewton the defendant and his family have gone to great pains to show that they are NOT Jewish, but Catholic Afro-Peruvian Americans. Either way, none of the mentioned groups have embraced the Z family.

It’s not a sin but it is against Roman Catholic doctrine for marriage. A person of another denomination, if not converting to Roman Catholic, is suppose to agree to raise the children Catholic. They can still marry in the church and the marriage is registered with the Archdiocese.

The way that GZ and ShelLIE married, their marriage is not recognized by the Roman Catholic church and the church would consider that GZ married a heathen.

Denny, Denis, Den, Mr D. He was disabled, lost the use of his legs a year ago. Arthritis, DM, or something they never discovered. But it didn´t stop him scooting around on his backside and we had to put jigsaw mats inside and stable matting outside so he wouldn´t scrape himself. He had a cart prepared and practised before he went down and quickly learnt to do 3 point turns but sadly after he went down he wouldn´t/couldn´t use it, perhaps pancreas or liver problems, so we bought a Help´em Up harness and carried his back legs for him when out and he would jump in the car as if he still could use them. He even had his own fan club in the supermarket car park where everyone made a big fuss of him! A real trooper!

Such a tall and handsome one! Named after Denis Thatcher? Whatever your politics, DT was tall, handsome and loyal. Sound like your Mr. D to you?

For two years I had a paraplegic cat, Timmy, who continued to be as happy as before his misdadventure through surgery.

Most important to them is your presence, and then when life gets difficult for them, the ultimate kindness you can show your animal companions is timely euthanasia.

It is hard for us to lose those so loyal and loving to us – but because our life spans extend beyond theirs, we are given the grace of being able to attend to their needs until the end of their days on earth.

Remember this, GB: – you would know great grief ONLY if you had known great joy. And those joyous memories go on forever! I hope they return to your heart soon.

@gbrbsb, it took me 20 minutes to read all the condolences!! 🙂
but I never found out what GSD stood for!
I know he’s a dog and his name is Mr.D., Denny, Dennis, he’s skinny and tall, but he’s a gental lovey boy!!
but what kind of dog? I wanna know what he looks like, what color he is!
Is he a german shepherd, like your pic? in my eyes they are the real true pure dogs! and so pretty!!

Thank you Shannoninmiami, thank you for your sympathy and that of everyone whose responses have served me great comfort. GSD = German Shepherd Dog and Denny, Dennis, Mr D, IS the dog of my pic which if you click it you can see his beautiful face and devoting eyes. He was very gentle, best friend and companion to us and to my partner´s two learning disabled adult sons. He was black and some tan, not skinny but huge, with a deep chest and a beautiful mane, a fine example of his kind. We adopted him 7 years ago after his owner died. His last year he he couldn´t use his back legs but that didn´t daunt him and he scooted around on his backside without a second thought. He will be sorely missed.

My sympathies on the loss of your furry family member. I lost one of my furbabies to an inoperable feline leukemia tumor, and held him while they gave him the shot, so he wouldn’t be alone and frightened. It is an unbearably painful decision to make. I’m sure that you did everything that was humanly possible. May you find some small comfort in that knowledge. I am truly sorry for the pain and loss of your family member.

shannoninmiami, you are right, GSD is for German Shepherd Dog. I couldn’t face another GSD too soon, so found a funny-face puppy that she raised the last year before DM took her. Dennis looks like a real sweetie.

ok folks, in absence of fred or crane station i am going to do my best to mediate this mess before it gets too far off track. i am sure that fred does not want to wake up in the morning to what looks and smells like a dog accident in the corner.

1. unitron is not a troll, he has been here longer than most. he also stated months ago that he was not coming back because of an issue regarding people being able to log in while using and abusing the log ons of others. you can easily see at the top of this post where fred responds to him congenially.

2. unitron — i think it is also obvious that the commonly used phrase ‘monkey bars’ could have been substituted by ‘top of the hill’ or anything else. there was absolutely nothing in the post that compared zimmerman to lesser primates in any way unless you are purposefully seeking offense when there is none.

please, i ask all of you to chill out and act like adults. fred will thank us for it in the morning.

What a thread to come back to! I have been lagging way behind since before Christmas and for the last 10 days unable to even visit immersed in a truly desperate bid to save our our wonderful gentle giant, our GSD, who we sadly had to euthanise Friday, opening a huge hole in my heart and that of others who had the fortune to get to know him.

And what a surprise! The last day I followed the blog BettyKath was the “troll”… and now it´s… Unitron ??? !!!

Unitron´s thoughtful and incisive comments pop up all over the serious blogs concerning this case, even at TalkLeft where he does a good job arguing them down if something doesn´t tally with his reasoning or going in agreement if it does, but he is certainly not a troll and IMO he does have a point. Sure, probably no bad inference was meant and this was certainly not the worst “insult” posted about the adversaries over the months but sometimes the names, insinuations and inferences interfere with dialogue and discussion and get very tiring and can seem more in tune with the CTH where whatever they ARE doing I´m damn sure it´s not analysing evidence with an open mind nor looking for any kind of fairness or justice!

Thanks Zhickel. Yes just one of the family. A big softee despite his size and as gentle as you could get. A real friend and companion to my partner´s two learning disabled adult sons who can´t talk either but the three understood each other perfectly without any need for words.

Thanks so much Aussie. Fortunately, like kids, they are content believing he is up there gambolling in the sky with another sorely missed furry friend who died a few years ago, but love the idea a dog “chose them”… they DO sense their innocence and vulnerability.

@gbrbsb I know the pain of losing a beloved pet. I’ll never forget my dear Chico, and still cry over losing him to cancer over five years ago. It was a very bitter pill to swallow. I’m gratified to know how well you took care of your beloved GSD.

Now you got me tearing up. I went through it wit my cat about a year ago. She suddenly couldn’t use her hind legs anymore, about three years ago and she was really hurting. We finally found out she had a hernia. She was about 14 years at the time and it was a big operation. But she was still a happy healthy cat, so I decided to go ahead.

She lived quite comfortable and happy for 1 1/2 years. Last 6 months was difficult. I had steps everywhere to help her get on the bed. Food, water and litterboxes on every floor. Best part of the day for her, was when I would go to bed. She would hop on the step, anounce her arrival, cuddle up close to my face, and would wash my hand while purring loudly.

They are such a big part of our lives for such a long time, just not long enough.

No, not long enough by far, but even with the knowledge of the heart wrenching pain to come, many, myself included, will give our hearts to another creature because in our hearts we know they will give us twenty fold more.

Sorry I started such a tempest with my silly, clumsy remark. If I was calling Fogen a lesser primate, I’d do it directly.

Maybe it was a subconscious, Freudian slip or something. I’m in a film class and one of the films for the week is Marx Bros Monkey Business. I’m also in a lit class and we recently got done surveying Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass. Something about the checkers king brought up an image for me of Fogen in a jail cell with a chess King type crown and I thought of the jail bars as monkey bars. Strange how our minds work, eh?

I’ve never thought unitron was a troll and remember him being here early on.

I have stopped taking any numbers, facts, or implications delivered by Team Fogen at face value. Same with Team Mrs. Fogen. She appears to be an angel in distress nursing student only in her dreams, just like Fogen I fancied himself as a hero crime-fighter.

i’m wondering if the judge even HAS to grant gz an immunity hearing in the first place? is having a hearing an Actual right or could a judge deny it out right for what ever reason…like idk, maybe she already knows she wouldn’t give him immunity no matter what they said?

It’s my understanding that, if a defendant properly raises the immunity issue by a pretrial motion, a hearing must be held.

A few lawyers’ websites have articles about this immunity. A link to one that I found particularly informative is below. In the article, the author explains the concepts and process and cites a case, Peterson v. State, which held that:

… [A] defendant may raise the question of statutory immunity pretrial and, when such a claim is raised, the trial court must determine whether the defendant has shown by a preponderance of the evidence that the immunity attaches.

Interestingly, the article also includes this pertinent scoop:

With regard to the Trayvon Martin case, the notion that Florida’s Stand Your Ground law prohibited the prosecution of George Zimmerman is fundamentally false. “Stand Your Ground” in no way prevents a prosecution from being initiated against an accused. Prior to forming Hussein & Webber, P.L., I served as an Assistant Public Defender in the Eighteenth Judicial Circuit of Florida, the circuit governing Sanford, Florida. During that time, the State Attorney’s Office for the Eighteenth Judicial Circuit routinely prosecuted defendants in the face of “Stand Your Ground” Motions.

@Groans, my smiley experiment didn’t work! so, I said thanks for info. but I tried to say it funny and sarcastically w/smileys! they didn’t work here..and I worked so hard on it!!!! damn!
so anyway… blah maybe wordpress has specific smileys. look for that later..

One spot on the jacket with non-human DNA. Could have carried an injured animal to the vet. Could have been sloppy slappind a steak on the barbie. Spot not ientified as canine. Source undetermined at that time and no new data posted.

Shannon, I think if the judge refuses the immunity hearing, whether she has that right or not, that action would leave open an opportunity for appeal. Judge Nelson, I gather, will allow no opportunities for successful appeals. Although some of her decisions confuse me, I like her.

What I still understand is how does he gets an immunity hearing when MOM has said that that law don’t apply to this case. Would he not have to prove self defense in a courtroom. Maybe this question has been asked already, I’m still unsure how this works.

I smell that the reason he has not been locked up has been the scheming from Junior & Pops and as well Shellie

He beat up his ex, he beat up cops, he has allegations of molestation and attempted rape of a cousin (incest), he’s kicked a dog for no reason, he has animal blood on him when he murdered Trayvon, he hustles and manipulates the public with his family (I am still baffled as to why the media plays along with it), he beat up some lady at his bouncer job, he stalked and harassed numerous people with aggression in that complex, he victimized a coworker, hid his passport and money as he was planning on fleeing and even stated so on his jailhouse calls

He’s been terrorizing people for 29 years plus

He’s still terrorizing Trayvon the victim after death and also his family

I dont think he will win and I dont think there’s any appeals considering all the mess he created himself

Except for regular immunity gz would have had to prove he had no way to retreat- (since he’s *the* aggressor) And/or he’d have to give a warning or make it clear to the person he’s engaged with that he was giving up and trying to leave before he was able to use deadly force and kill them.

In a SYG hearing you don’t have a duty to retreat BUT you CANNOT be the aggressor! If you are the aggressor you can’t use the SYG…so, basically omar has conceded gz WAS the initial aggressor. but of course they still have the lie about Trayvon jumped out of the bushes and so he was the aggressor. but I guess they couldn’t get the bushes to corroborate that story!

What omar is counting on in the regular immunity is that gz couldn’t get his BIG ass out from under the skinny lil 17 y.o. skittle lovin- not spinach lovin, boy!

But the SYG and regular immunity hearings would have the same exact benefits if won. he’d never get prosecuted or sued.

Earlier in the interview he stated he jumped out from the bushes @ about 14:35

Then he says he walked back towards him @ 22:16.

That story that they keep trying to feed us, about Trayvon jumping out of the bushes, is utter nonsense. It drives me bonkers that his own attorneys have not listened or looked over any of the audio and discovery to date, and keep regurgitating the same bulls**t story.

I think you’re right about the lawyers not bothering to listen to the audio! if they had they’d have come up with something similar to repeat/regurgitate! and stop with the same ol bs they keep saying. and they should tell Jr another one too since he’s blabbing it all over TV.

like how about Trayvon “coming out of the darkness”!LOL as if he’s the headless horseman! why not say Trayvon came out of the fog???

so stupid. it’s gonna be real fun when BDLR calls him out about the head banging ball gz says he went to that night! I can’t wait!

It is now the same time of the year that Zimmerman killed Trayvon. How I would LOVE to see LLMPapa make a video of a skinny 5’11” youth trying to come out of ANY bushes on either side of the dog-walk, from the T to the site of the
killing … wearing a hoodie, yet!

Even GZ looks around haplessly when telling this whopper to Serino and the other cops during the re-enactment on-site. “Where’d all the bushes go????” he seems to be saying. Serino was smart not to challenge this – just kept GZ talking, talking, talking.

Also, deciduous trees will be bare at the end of February. Can anyone get still photos of the cut-throughs between buildings, on both sides of the dogwalk? I would like to see branches (bare) and guy-wires between those sets of condos that GZ must have run through, to head off Trayvon and drive him to the north away from Brandi Green’s home.

Looking for anything that could cause the cuts, especially to the back of his head. Since those blood rivulets were never smeared, how could GZ have been under Trayvon at ANY time?

I think we’ve collectively decided GZ slipped and fell on some dog do and smacked his stupid ass head on a sprinkler thing or one of those little boxes in the ground.

OMG!!! I just watched an older video of Matt gutman the abc website, and he was standing almost on top of a whiteish box in the ground. He was explaining where they were standing or Tray’s body landed and he was actually kicking at it a bit b/c it was right in his way!!! Someone put a link on it yesterday or day before! I saved the web page. I’ll repost it when I get back to my laptop!!! OMG!!!

@Shannon, I was the one to offer the sprinkler head as an assailant, because I’m a farmer, have sprinklers by the bazillion and know they can be sharp. Later I saw FDLE photos taken at the scene about 2 months after the killing – and one showed 3 items marked by ID tape – one contiguous to the dogwalk. After they have popped up to do their sprinkling, they drop down to groundlevel and are buried in the turf grass. So you can’t see them unless you part the grass. The photo did not show what was UNDER the tape. I phoned the landscape contractor that
had the contract at RATL at the time of the killing and they confirmed the professionl heavy-duty sprinkler heads used and that they were installed in the dogwalk areas.

When I first heard of this case last March my brain was screaming “Look for the proof of blood on the concrete!” because it’s obvious that evidence, if it were true, would be right there. But nobody did. So insane …

Gee, my filing system is not all that bad. Here it is from August 22, 2012. (You can Google RainBird’s website to the professional turfcare section to see these models – it’s the tough central pop-up head that’s sharp.)

Specs:

Installed in parks and backyards across the globe, Rain Bird’s 1800 Series is the #1 commercial-grade irrigation spray head brand in the world.
Chosen for its reliability, heavy-duty materials and versatility, the 1800 Series offers a broad selection of pop up heights and nozzle combinations for watering shrubs, small lawns and irregularly shaped planting areas. Precision spray heads and nozzles customize your watering system to cover virtually any configuration lawn or garden – not the sidewalk or driveway!
Installed in parks and backyards across the globe, Rain Bird’s 1800 Series is the #1 commercial-grade irrigation spray head brand in the world.
The 1800 Series offers Rain Bird’s patented pop-up mechanism for out-of-sight retraction into the lawn when not in operation, full and partial circle coverage and infinite pattern adjustment for optimum head-to-head coverage.
• Spray distance from 6 to 15 ft. with full, half and quarter and adjustable pattern nozzles pre-installed. Spacing 3 to 20 ft. Exposed surface diameter: 2 1/4″ (5,7 cm)

If you select “products” and go to the end of the video – see the Vann nozzles? See the steel screw (that’s for spray/volume/pattern adjustment) – NOT fun if you drag your head across that. Size seem right for the scrape marks in the back of GZ’s head? The flat plastic around that is also VERY tough and very sharp.

Stop in @ Home Depot or your local gaarden store and check out your Rainbird irrigation supplies.

@Blushed – I misinformed you. The screw does not set pattern (don’t know where my brain was when I wrote). The pattern is selected when you buy the sprayheads. If it is to be located along a concrete walkway, you want only 180 degrees of spray (half circle) which means the screw is more exposed on those heads.

I totally remember you called the sprinkler people! MONTHS ago! and remember they found some *possible* animal dna on gz, so it coulda been dog dung!lol I hope so anyway.

but here are the videos I saw the thing on the ground where Gutman was standing and saying this is the spot something or another happened.
it might not be the first video, it could be the 2nd, so let the next one play if you don’t see it at first.

Yes, it’s the second video report – just keep watching and it comes up 2nd.

Guttman is walking foot away from one of the vault covers. They are usually concrete or a

really heavy-duty plastic, and there is some texture to the plastic. Concrete is, well, concrete. What Guttman is standing next to looks like concrete. The edge, of course, could scrape Zimmerman’s head if he came up against it, or scraped along it.

These run all down the dogwalk. One of LLMPapa’s videos identfies them with arrows.

I just don’t know why SPD did not have a tech guy spraying the area with blood-detection chemical (have forgotten the name). If there’s a rough surface blood & cells ould adhere for weeks.

My bet is that the vault they considered is one house further down. Did you see the photos on Axiom Amnesia FDLE last April? Very clear that there are 3 areas in the grass that they are considering.

Professor or anyone for that matter…
I am curious as to if the GPS data the defense received from the prosecution is releasable by the defense? In the past, whenever O’Mara had information that seemed to point to exonerating the defendant, O’Mara was quick to release it. What would be O’Mara’s reasons for not releasing it if it pointed to the defendant’s innocence? Or is there some order stating he can not release it? I don’t recall a gag order being in effect for this case so far, so is it something that even could be released?

Evidence in that is so clear … between the jailhouse calls and what she testified to via phone in Judge Lester’s court … it’s difficult to see how even the most myopic jury could find her anything but guilty. With the stakes at up to five years in prison for the charge, what is a realistic penalty that might be handed down?

And jurors with just a smattering of common sense will see the evidence and not one will say.”…No….a wife would never lie about that….Oh Pshaw” I doubt they will have sympathy and think….”well, we don’t want to look like it’s pick on FogenPhoolesPhamily time now. She radiates arrogance in addition to poor taste in men.

I agree. If she finally pleas, which would be wise, SZ should get out of this with just probation. Dragging this issue into a full jury trial on a defense of semantics, however, would get her about six to eighteen months. There should be a sentencing penalty for disrespecting the intelligence of the court. This situation is similar to the child who denies going into the cookie jar but has chocolate and crumbs all over her face and hands.

I doubt it. She lied to the court. The court made a decision based on her lie. Her lies are valued at $850,000; the difference between the bond that Judge Lester set based on her lies, as opposed to what he set based on the truth.

Ha, that reminds me of Al Sharpton and his pre-presidential election commercials for MSNBC in which he calls out the politicians that are like the kids that get into the blueberry pie and say no, they didn’t do it with blueberry all over their faces! I find it unbelievable that so many Fogen supporters still insist that Shellie didn’t lie, that she told the truth about not knowing exactly how much money there was in the Peter Pan and even answered all the questions in a reasonable way even though she was clearly moving funds around by that date. How can anyone come to any other conclusion? Apparently people are rarely charged with perjury because it can be so hard to prove, so this fact shows that she’s in deep doo-doo. FL wouldn’t have charged her if they had any doubt they couldn’t win the case. Her lawyer would be extremely foolish to allow her to file a not guilty plea. Unless, like OM, he’s more into the limelight than doing anything reasonable. Sims seems to have possibly read the same playbook judging by yesterday’s performance.

lady….Shel-lie shouldn’t “F” fogenocchio up when she got home (just to risk being abused by him). No, if I were her, I’d ask my lawyer if there was a possibility of a plea deal. If yes….I’d open up with all the information I had and really stick it to ol’ fogen.

@ grey winter sky
I’m quite sure he’s (or was) physically abusive, and is to this day verbally and spiritually abusive. I was just telling Piranhamom she needs to tell what she knows and move on putting him and her part in this tragedy behind her.

I have been saying this for some time now, This lady got to be pissed with this man. I would want to kill my husband if he put me in a situation like this one. I bet this is just one more problematic situation that he has put her in. One thing for sure this prolem won’t go away like the others. I bet she wish she would have left when he first started getting them into one bad situation after the other.

“Her predicament is a result of her desire to have someone with a “Bad Boy Image” of course, he would actually have to be “Bad” not “Cowardly”

GZ would have been a coward without a gun.

I think the Zimmerman husband/wife team are unintelligent hustlers and at the time of windfall of money they were both driven by greed. They were going to live the “good life” on other people’s money without thinking stupid people do get caught in lies and the money was temporary racist/gun-nut money and meant for his defense for killing a black teen.

I don’t know for sure but it seems ShelLIE can hold her own and thinks for herself and looks like a “bad girl” herself. Wonder what her background is.

shellie’s background is not so hot. she was apparently an esthetician before starting ‘nursing school’ although no longer has a valid license so work history would be spotty. her ‘nursing school’ is naught but an online course with what i believe is a community college and she’s been at it for some time. i have checked all possible medical licenses she can hold and she has none. this means that the program she was studying for nursing is the lowly ‘nurse aid’ and with the online course she would still need to put in many hours of supervised hands on care. it does not appear that she has done so.

i have always maintained that shellie is to nurse as george is to policeman and stand by that. neither are qualified.

her family background is spotty as well – her father has a record (and i do not mean as a recording artist). she seems to bounce from one bad situation to another, with a steady stream of poor choices and little, if any, self responsibility.

at this point, it would take a lot to convince me that they were not scamming on the student aid/loan system to supplement their lack of regular income. no one needs 7 years to ‘almost’ complete an AA degree, even while maintaining a full time job.

I have been saying this for some time now, This lady got to be pissed with this man.

Indeed. Just think about it — a husband leaves the wife behind at the home of friends, opens a Paypal account and launches a website begging for donations. It isn’t until he’s arrested and cannot access the Paypal account that he tells the wife his login and password so she can access the account. And, for what purpose? To move the money around to keep it secretive from the court so he can get a low bond.

Had he not been arrested, GZ would be out travelling the world with over $200,000 of other people’s money while the Ostermans financially support ShelLIE.

Ya know….if shellie opened her own begging site…..she would be overwhelmed with proposals………

Only if GZ is behind bars and she files for divorce. ShelLIE would do whatever GZ says, including swindling the man out of money for GZ’s benefit. Any man in his right mind would not want to get involved with ShelLIE while GZ is free to roam.

I really don’t think that the Fogens think of their interest in their windfall as greed. I’m sure they feel entitled to every penny as victims of political railroading, media manipulation, the scary African-American racists – ad nauseum.

The Fogens just believe they can make a mockery of the entire criminal justice system. They believe the criminal justice system is only in place to control African Americans so the good whites can keep their color TVs. They get the ignorance and arrogance awards every damn time!

I couldn’t find it at first either, I too kept getting an ad….
1. Go to the Orlando Sentinel
2. Click SZ Purjuy article (middle row 5th article)
3. Scroll down to the 3 photos
4. Click on the middle pic on the left

There’s also a video of her attorney, he’s a real *cracker* and needs some serious dental work.

I just tried to go back to it and I can’t get in either. I tried hitting the refresh as soon as it came up but that’s not working either. We may have to wait until the morning (I’m in LA so it’s not even midnight yet)

Thanks for the link, Lady. Yes, Shellie looked crushed. Did a good job of walking out of the courtroom with dignity but I expect she burst into tears once in the car and away from the cameras. This couple may finally understand that they have to pay a severe penalty for Trayvon’s death, which they seem to have dismissed for so long.

But there is no penalty so great that will pay for the loss of Trayvoon.

@ PiranhaMom
My pleasure.
I feel the same way, she was actually quite cool, calm and collected (thank you Katie Winters, showing my age here) even though she was smug. She’s gullible and between fogen and the attorney I’m sure sure felt quite confident up until the announcement of April 17th. If she’s even somewhat smart she’ll break from him, tell what she knows and possibly be able to move on with her life after awhile.

There is nothing but a car ad at that link. they must have taken it down but, I can’t imagine why. these people are not special. every aspect of Casey Anthony’s life was put out there for all to see. but not these people.

She doesn’t look like a person who will tell all in this case and, I’m pretty sure she knows all. she has a arrogance about her still even after the judge denied her motion to dismiss charges against her. she has more than likely been told, that she will most likely not do time for her lying to the judge so, she has nothing to loose by not giving up what she knows about that night.

I think she will have to serve some time, even if she is sentenced to probation. I’m guessing 6 months to a year in the county jail.

I believe the only way that she can avoid any jail time would be if she works something out with the prosecution. A perjury conviction on her record would seriously hamper her employment prospects as she attempts to adjust to life without her husband.

She won’t tell a thing assuming that she know more than what Fogen has told . That,s just to much to ask of a wife, that’s why we have laws that protect spouses in situation like this. I don’t think this man has told anyone the truth not his family, his lawyers, not even his wife. His is a narcissistic sociopath that is incapable of telling the truth.

As the time for fogen’s trial draws closer, and the evidence against him continues to pile up, and the prospects of either going to jail or dealing with a conviction on her record become more of a reality to fogenette…and, if she has at least a crumb of self-preservation and common sense….she should ask the prosecutor if there might be a deal to “make this all go away” for herself. She indeed may be as greedy as fogen, she may also be a lying pile trash but…..she did not pull the trigger and kill an innocent kid. No matter what my opinion is of her and her character, (and since she has committed no other crime that anyone can hold against her), I feel that she needs to “talk”, to make sure that fogen is locked away for a long time so that she can walk away from this and start over again.

SZ lawyer Sims, made public statements yesterday that included video and statements to the press.

OS report (link above) “Sims left the courthouse, predicting that Shellie Zimmerman would be acquitted. If you study carefully the questions she was asked, he said, she answered truthfully.

“It’s all about specificity,” he said.
He did not elaborate.”

Let’s elaborate on a few of those answers to questions from bond hearing, April 20, 2012.

MOM “I’ve discussed with you…” re: indigent for costs for her husband…. you have any financial means to assist with THOSE costs’?
SZ “Umm, hot that I’m aware of.”

Prosecution questions SZ, including:

BDLR “you also mentioned, in terms of the ability for your husband to make a bond amount, that you all have no money, is that correct?’
SZ “To my knowledge, that’s correct”

BDLR “Were you aware of a website that Mr. Zimmerman or somebody on his behalf created?”
SZ “I am aware of that website.:

BDLR “And how much money is in that website right now, or how much money has….[results from?] that website…’
SZ “Currently I do not know.”

BDLR “Who would know that?”
SZ “That would be ah, my brother in law”
[discussion about possible to get him on the phone]

BDLR ” So he is not there now?”
SZ “No, he is not sir”

BDLR ” Do you have any estimates of how much money has already been ah, obtained?”
SZ “I do not”

BDLR “Have you talked to your brother-in-law in terms of a bare amount of how much money [from website]”?
SZ “Nope! …no, I have not.”

[SZ said she has not been with her husband, she says contact with him every day. Discusses any threats, hatemail, aside from threats to her husband, she admits she has had no threats but has had hatemail, admitted she knows the difference between threats and hatemail. She says she has never contacted any LE authority nor the SAO about the hatemail, but advises she has kept it.]

I think of it like the game Battleship. The prosecution knows where they have aligned their ships and connected the dots, while the defense has been too involved in other things to even build its fleet.

You’re so far off base it’s a joke. Where did I hold myself to their standard. I’m head & shoulders above their level. Your just trolling.
I see you are incapable of answering a question also.Trolling hour is over, get used to it.

Upon further reflection, I should have asked the first question and stopped there until receiving your reply, rather than going anywhere near leaping to the conclusion of a practicing of double standards.

Two sides, I must admit, ever since many from the GZ camp sported the monkey pics on the GZLC Facebook page, I get sensitive with monkey references. I know what monkey bars are, but I did cringe a bit at your earlier monkey comment. I thought nothing of it because of the nature of this site, but I surely would have taken issue had the same comment come from the debate page.

One other thing I’d like to mention. We must be careful not to automatically refer to a poster as a “troll” just because he/she disagrees with or challenges a thought. I have seen many of Unitron’s comments on BCCLIST, and he tends to look at all angles when commenting on the case. If this is the same poster, I would not call him a troll. Far from it.

unitron….”monkey bars” are the old fashioned metal bar type of climbing equipment used on playgrounds. Most were in a dome or rocket shaped form. Besides climbing on them, kids used to pretend that they were also a jail of sorts.

Considering the ongoing plethora of gleeful denigration of Zimmerman’s physical appearence and intelligence at this site, I didn’t consider the idea that someone here was comparing him to non-human primates all that far-fetched.

And having seen someone here complain long and loud about racism and racists and then turn right around and call someone a wetback, it occured to me to wonder if there might be some application of a double standard going on as well, considering that comparing blacks to non-human primates has a long and disgraceful history.

However, as I indicated, I should have awaited clarification on the first point before considering the second.

Well, you’re a good guy for mulling this over, Unitron, and I thank you. I do think we make an issue of Zimmerman’s fat ass more than it’s called for, but I think that’s an indication of our frustration over his big fat lies.

I’ll try to cut back on the snarky comments, in future. Put my snark on a diet, so to speak.

I never thought I would see a WORTHLESS TROUBLE MAKING TROLL on this decent of all sites, that a person can come to and converse in peace. these IMBECILES are every where. it’s like they are dogs going around sniffing out all of the blog sites that are discussing this case.

It’s such a shame that common sense people can’t have a peaceful conversation about this case, without *IGNORANT* racist coming around causing trouble. what in the hell did this kid and his family ever do to any of these THUGGISH IDIOTS, that would give them cause to do what they are doing?

How can people boast about this being the greatest country in the world, when we have a group of people trashing a murdered child and his family while supporting his murderer. this family hasn’t bothered anyone and yet they are having to endure this kind of hurt along with the loss of their son/brother. they are every where. I was on the Justice for Trayvon Martin face book page and, they have taken over that site with their hate.

Over on YouTube there is a video about the little 19 month old who was slapped in the face by a white man, and there are comments being posted that shouldn’t be. I’ve seen several comments by people calling blacks niggers and, I’m sick of seeing this kind of shit. not only do they use the N word, they also call blacks monkeys among other things. the way they spoke about this baby is really awful and, they shouldn’t be allowed to post such shit about another race. this kind of stuff needs to come to an end.

Trayvon was just as much of a human being as the rest of the murdered kids/people in this country and, he did not in any way cause he own death and he definitely didn’t cause Zimmerman’s delima. this POS brought all of this on himself when he followed, attacked and then shot and killed Trayvon. the idiot made his bed so, these worthless ignorant racist need to let him lie in it. not only that, he has torn this country apart with his murdering of a child and then lying about it. there is a special place in hell for this SOB and the sooner he gets there the damn better.

These people can blame Al, Jesse, Crump, Natalie Jackson, The SA office out of Jacksonville and the Martin/Fulton family all they want. but at the end of the day, all of the blame is on the shoulders of one George Michael Zimmerman. he should have left Trayvon alone but no, he couldn’t do that and now he must pay for his crime. these people are just as heartless as this low life who shot and killed a kid who cried and begged for his life. I read a comment where someone said that Fogen is pitiful, I don’t see that and even if he is, I don’t give a damn. Trayvon is what was pitiful as he begged for his life and, that baby died with tears on his face.

No, this murderer is not pitiful and, he will NEVER get any sympathy from me. GOD forgive me but, I honestly HATE this worthless POS!

@OnlyIamUnitron; I feel like commenting on this general conversation, regardless of the particular “monkey bars” comment. I think it’s basically this, restated and with the particular language taken out:

Many people on this blog (myself included) have said things about Fogen and his family and even about his supporters that are inherently and deliberately disrespectful. If I get you correctly, you believe that is inappropriate and perhaps even think it (a) drops the author of those words to “the level” of these people who are targeted by the disrespectful speech; and there is a hint that you think it (b) reflects badly upon us and provides some kind of excuse for similar conduct aimed at members of the Fulton-Martin family and their supporters, even professionals who have been supportive by helping the Fulton-Martins interface with the legal system and the media.

Here is what I have to say about that:

Let’s start with 2/26/2012. The incident that arose between Fogen and Trayvon Martin did not arise as does a rainstorm or a neutral, environmental event. One of the two parties OR both of the two parties involved started something. Since Fogen phoned NEN, we have the timing of his beginning of the event. It preceded Trayvon Martin’s beginning of anything that could be considered “his side” of the event.

From that moment forward, Fogen AND HIS SUPPORTERS (who joined in later than Fogen joined in) stated their collective positions on how much respect Trayvon Martin was entilted to. Let’s see, what do we have for any real indication of how much respect we began with. Let’s say any two strangers in the world are involved in a co-event. Each starts out with 100 respect points in the eyes of the other.

Now we have it, before they have gotten into eye contact with each other, that Fogen has voluntarily, evidently, confirmed that he has unilaterally decreased Trayvon Martin down to a 10 out of 100 (approximately) on the mutual respect score.

If it were not for a million people hitting the streets and signing petitions, Unitron, the story of what happened that night in Sanford would have been: “An armed citizen legally carrying a registered handgun was violently attacked by an out-of-town high school student and forced to draw his weapon and kill his assailant.” That would have been the official story, Unitron, and it would have given rise to a statistic about how many times Americans armed with handguns have had to use them in self-defense. That would be the ONLY story that would have arisen from this event since Trayvon Martin could never have been convicted post mortem of “black on white crime.”

But look at the respect factor from that vantage point.

Then admit what happened to Florida, to the whole nation, and yes, to the world, when the Trayvon Martin killing took off as a media event. Look at which each of us who comments on this blog has gone through, intellectually and emotionally, since that event a year minus a week ago, when Fogen killed a “real suspicious guy” just “looking about” in a way he described as “leisurely.”

And look at our own backgrounds, which we are surely entitled to have you do, if you want to judge us. If you want to judge us, do it as a judge would do it; give us the privilege of a “presentence report” prepared by the probation department, before you decide what our conduct indicates about us.

“PRESENTENCE REPORT ON DEFENDANT MALISHA THE BLOGGER WHO HAS PLED GUILTY WITH MITIGATION TO THE CHARGE OF BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO FOGEN AND HIS CROWD.”

Defendant comes from a lower middle class background from a state on the Atlantic coast. She had a public school education through high school and some college. She worked as a secretary and child-care provider. She was married once and divorced once and had one child. She began blogging after hearing about the killing of Trayvon Martin. She admits to being disrespectful toward Fogen and his supporters and family on several occasions. She does not claim to be repentant and indeed indicates that she will repeat that conduct in the future “whenever the spirit moves me.”

She claims that her conduct is motivated by the fact that she has studied, admittedly briefly and in the most cursory way, the history of slavery, economic exploitation and what she calls “social derogation” of African Americans in this country. She admits that she has never taken a sociology, history, social studies, or similar college level course at any accredited university. Yet she claims that she can see, even without formal education, that there is what she calls “an unnatural tendency to accord more than the appropriate natural amount of respect” to white or indeed Afro-Peruvian light-skinned Americans when and if they express what she calls “less than the appropriate natural amount of respect” to African Americans or “more-Afro-Peruvianish” Americans. She insists that this “natural respect imbalance” pervades our thinking, social discourse, and even news reporting, and she also claims that “making fun of those assholes who engage in it is one of the best ways to deal with that imbalance.”

It was difficult to complete the psychosocial report in this matter because the defendant was laughing hysterically and the evaluator could not make out individual words spoken during this display of hilarity, although certain syllables seemed to repeat quite often, notably: “HA” and “OUCH.”

Well stated. It’s obvious to me a few trolls are back to the insulting of the defendant is bad routine. There are 2 here that clearly are trolls form another universe.

In short, every comment made about any of them is well deserved. Not one of them goes to the outhouse and says, hey gang….gettin’ a little nasty, tone it down. In fact, they have a multitude of names so as to hide.

Not one of them goes to the outhouse and says, hey gang….gettin’ a little nasty, tone it down. In fact, they have a multitude of names so as to hide.

There ya go!!! The need to correct how people express themselves is not done to Zidiot sites and comments. With ShelLIE’s hearing yesterday, and as I read some of the online news reports about it, I ventured into also reading comments. There are no corrections of those making comments that disparage Blacks as a race nor those saying that Trayvon was a “thug” deserving death.

Personally, I tend to rebel against what appears to be mindsets that some particular people are suppose to be passive and submissive while others have privilege to mask hate speech as freedom of speech.

“…and there is a hint that you think it (b) reflects badly upon us and provides some kind of excuse for similar conduct aimed at members of the Fulton-Martin family and their supporters, even professionals who have been supportive by helping the Fulton-Martins interface with the legal system and the media.”

Nope, 3 lefts may make a right, but 2 wrongs never do.

Am I going to bother to hang out at the treehouse and point out to them the error of their ways?

Can’t afford the hot water bill for the number of showers I’d have to take from being there for any length of time.

Just because Trayvon was black, that doesn’t mean thinking Zimmerman should get a fair trial and that all the evidence should be considered means I have to join the KKK.

When one of us blows a hole in FogensPhooles chest for no reason, we’ll quote you. When you think you’re telling any of us a “thing” with anything we say, be it a name or an expression, remember, we are legally allowed to. It’s part of “venting”

See, we vent that way…FogenPhoole, well we all see how he vented. You’re now defending his wife who has no defense at all.

Why don’t you take a stab at explaining away who “Peter Pan” is….this will be a hoot !!

When you go that route yet FAIL to do the same to Zidiots…..it’s called “Trolling” Period, End of Story. You routine is textbook….I can smell them a mile away.

He’s being found guilty of numerous crimes by Fogenhats’ gang members for simply walking home, while black, with Skittles and Ice Tea

Not my words either

Fogenhats’ words

– real suspicious guy
– because he is walking around looking about
– he looks black
– he’s got his hand in his waist band and he’s a black male

Fogenhats played judge jury executioner of this kid, no trial, no nothing and he was found to have not committed any crimes

After killing the kid, he takes advantage by ravaging the media 24/7 and pretty much in the media and public opinion, this kid is not getting a fair hearing, and him and Omara use this opportunity to con people, blame a dead kid, and take advantage and make money off this dead kid

No offense taken. I was in a whimsical, silly mood yesterday. I usually don’t say anything too derogatory about Fogen except to criticize his irresponsible act in killing an unarmed teen. And I really don’t like a lot of uncalled for name-calling toward his family except for level-headed scrutiny of their public behavior – i.e. things they have publicly said, their public media appearances etc. etc. Like you, unitron, I’m also bothered by excessive name calling from either camp. This is a tragedy for both families. I didn’t mean to make him seem like a monkey, but something about the checkers analogy and showing him as a crowned king able to move in any direction made me think of him as king of his jail cell and that in turn made me think of “monkey bars” – while at the same time, it also brings up an image of the children’s playground apparatus. His head space is sort of in one or the other, it seems !

Unitron, I thought we dealt with the “wetback” comment on another thread long long ago, but just in case, I’m going to do it again now. I was on another thread a couple of months back and made a joke to the effect that Shellie Zimmerman might want to cross over into Mexico to escape prosecution. Because humor is based upon surprise, and because the idea of someone crossing illegally INTO Mexico from the States rather than crossing illegally FROM Mexico into the States was the essence of the joke I was making, I used the Texas vernacular to suggest that Shellie would cross in the shallow part of the Rio Grande, thus assuming the slang term “wetback” to enter Mexico and hide there. I considered it rather extreme sensitivity to get all riled up about that, still do. It reminded me, in fact, of the way I once used the phrase “jew down the price” when I was selling a piece of my own art work, and I’m a Jew.

I had made a little wire sculpture and a friend wanted another like it to give to someone as a gift. I made it in about five minutes from scraps and he liked it. He asked me how much it was and I said “Give me $20.” I figured that was high for 5 cents worth of supplies and five minutes’ work. He said, “IMPOSSIBLE!” I said, “OK, $10.” He countered, “Not less than $60.” I said, “You’re Jewing my price up!” We laughed and I charged him $50.

Long ago, long ago, I explained this a different way. Really, I’m tired of trying to defend my very critical, disrespectful and even at times hateful attitude toward Fogen and his crowd, wife included. Why anybody thinks I should be according more respect to a murdering liar who holds himself above his innocent victim and who wants everybody else to do the same is frankly beyond me. I will diss Fogen as much as possible as often as I like and I still think what he has done to my life, in announcing to the world his presumed right to slaughter innocent kids to salve his damaged ego, is more vicious and destructive than anything I can do to him with words. ANYTHING. He deserves NONE of my respect. He deserves to keep his life and keep living his life and he deserves his constitutional rights to fair trial and so forth; more than that, he does not deserve. I will not voluntarily give it to him. EVER.

“Why anybody thinks I should be according more respect to a murdering liar who holds himself above his innocent victim and who wants everybody else to do the same is frankly beyond me. I will diss Fogen as much as possible as often as I like and I still think what he has done to my life, in announcing to the world his presumed right to slaughter innocent kids to salve his damaged ego, is more vicious and destructive than anything I can do to him with words. ANYTHING. He deserves NONE of my respect.”

I certainly agree with that…..I’m a bit tired of being told that whet some of us say is as bad or worse that what the Zidiots say. Anyone who says that has an agenda.

racerrodig: “…..I’m a bit tired of being told that what some of us say is as bad or worse that what the Zidiots say. Anyone who says that has an agenda.”

I am not sure why anyone really cares about nicknames or observations of the appearance of the Z husband & wife hustler/killer team, their attorneys style, tactics or appearance as well as family members who stay in the public eye by choice.with appearances and websites begging for money.

I enjoy reading most posts and comments here and those I find offensive I disregard. I don’t get why this is an issue and posters sit in judgement of other posters style of expressing themselves.

“I enjoy reading most posts and comments here and those I find offensive I disregard. I don’t get why this is an issue and posters sit in judgement of other posters style of expressing themselves.”

Same here. I only get after a post that is dead, flat out wrong and / or intended to alter an opinion or defend them. This is exactly what O’ Mara and the Zidiots want and I can smell that a mile away.

I’d bet by the “I’m better than you” way one of them writes, he’s the same one who bullies others around and was the biggest name caller in the past. Then makes sure he signs his name at the bottom…on an internet blog…..where his name is at the top….like
hey….look at me, I’m a condescending………

Look back through those 3 months and find anywhere where I did any name-calling.

unitron

(who couldn’t register unitron with WordPress because of some guy in Germany who got there first but never uses it, but is very careful to always use the same name everywhere on the Internet, rather than hide behind multiple identities)

I enjoy reading most posts and comments here and those I find offensive I disregard. I don’t get why this is an issue and posters sit in judgement of other posters style of expressing themselves.

This is an issue because at least one person here posted a link to a hate blog where the owner has stated that his “one purpose only” is “to expose the lies, the attackers, and the attacks.” This is an edited version of his first version where he swore to “destroy” and silence those who talk badly about GZ and GZ’s family.

Of course, the person who posted the link here to that site wanted to discuss a purported “letter” on that site, while disregarding that some who participate here were maliciously attacked on the same site.

That Zidiot’s agenda begins by eliminating anything he deems does not support GZ and hold him up as a hero of heroes. In his mind, GZ is not given the presumption of innocence, although he has personally decided Trayvon’s guilt.

That person’s latest attack was against raccerodig. That Zidiot does not like Racer posting lyrics to songs about GZ. So, coming here and reading Racer’s comments, that Zidiot has dedicated entire pages on his blog about Racer, falsely accusing him of threatening the lives of Frank Taaffe and GZ, along with a threat of reporting racerrodig to law enforcement. And yes, the treeslummers have attempted to illegally dox Racer.

Find it strange that a link to that Zidiot’s site would be posted here shortly after he threatened Racer?

I’d say he wasn’t smart enough to see we see the pattern. He’s not smart enough to see we have each others back and it shows.

He’s not smart enough to know either, that while he told his buds on the treeslum that he decided to take down his Word Press blog, that like GZ, he omitted that he only did that when Word Press suspended his other blog for violation of TOS.

I’m telling ya….I can smell a troll a mile away and you can too !!

Actually, I don’t. There’s this tendency I have to give people the benefit of the doubt, along with the fact that there are days when I don’t have time to read every comment. One sure way, however, is when personal attacks are flung or telling others why they say what they do.

Xena: “Find it strange that Racer would be targeted here for his comments?”

I think racerrodig is hilarious and I enjoy his humorous nicknames and making fun of GZ’s dialect on NEN call. I never felt Racer was vicious.

What I think it is strange is that any poster would be criticized for their comments or impressions of GZ, SZ, RZJ, etc., not limited to Racer. You know the posters who are “offended” if you use a nickname like ShelLIE or comment on GZ or ShelLIE’s appearance. That is what is puzzling to me.

I like the mix of posts here. Some are informative, some funny, some have theories I have never thought about and some I just don’t get the reasoning/logic so I just disregard them. From what I see the really vicious posts are comment sections on news articles regarding Zimmerman and the squirrel’s treehouse. I don’t get how invested some people are to protect Zimmerman KKKlan.

Needless to say, I may be a little biased and I thank you for your thoughts. The last vicious person on this planet is me. I agree with what you say about disregarding what I may not agree with as long as itis not a perversion of facts. We all have an opinion and just like you I learn a lot here. Case in point was Lonnie’s theory on Trayvon being “lured” out. I disagreed BUT his theories and thoughts got me thinking Hmmmmmmm ??

The stark reality is we’re on this and they can’t stand it. FogenPhoole did what many of them want to do and I try to stay as polite and Politically Correct as possible but that’s the fact.

He’s done and the only shot is contaminating the jury pool no matter what it takes. If making just one of use on Team Trayvon getting ticked and leave a site like this, they feel a victory.

Race…..do U wunt a scratcher with a fork in the handle as the one in the pic?…..or would U be happy with a single shaft? (No comments about the last 9 words……..Carlin only had 7)……

N E way……upper jaw with molars cut and formed….2 coats of polyurethane …..now just to find a handle…ur choice…..OH and what would U like wood burnt into the handle?…..I wuz thinkin along the lines of “RACER PAT”…………”RACER MOUNTAIN” wood sound stupid……

Not counting any internet conversations, I have talked with at least 100 people about this in my shop alone, customers mostly. Of that group only 1 said he thought it was a self defense case. As we talked it was clear he wasn’t really “interested” in this and only saw / read a minimum on it. When the other person & myself just casually talked about the facts, he got interested and is now part of the “Hoodies Up” gang.

I really think he has just a small hard core group of racists that confirm what they say about empty barrels.

What I think it is strange is that any poster would be criticized for their comments or impressions of GZ, SZ, RZJ, etc., not limited to Racer. You know the posters who are “offended” if you use a nickname like ShelLIE or comment on GZ or ShelLIE’s appearance. That is what is puzzling to me.

Short answer; because the Zidiots want a monopoly on nicknames and being condescending, just like they want the constitution to only apply to “free White men” and those who they want to extend it to.

Maybe he just hates my taste in music ??………..naaaaaaaa he’s a race baiting hate monger. Maybe I’ll do something a redneck like him would enjoy……any suggestions ?? What genre does “Satan Worship” come under. Is there a “Losers Lament” category.

You know I try to be diversified……Check your Blog speaking of a great song…….The more they hate me, the more I know how righteous this cause is.

Racer: “The more they hate me, the more I know how righteous this cause is.”

The more they hate you means you speak the truth and they don’t want to hear it. I went through an evening of posting on CTH and I got banned when I asked questions that made them uncomfortable, such as why the yelling for help stopped on the 911 call after the gunshot if it was GZ yelling and he claimed he didn’t know he had shot Trayvon. I am very proud to have been banned so quickly.

Yesssssirreeee Man ! When someone told me about the Outhouse I read some filth on and off for a few weeks until something was said so vile I had to say something. I was very factual and polite. The racist comments back were what amounted to death threats. They assumed I was black, well, one called me the “n” word actually. When I went back and stated how uneducated and presumptive they were and stated I’m a 57 year old white male, well…I would never repeat what they said.

So needless to say I was banned…..Gee, imagine that. I guess they really do have a problem with anyone else standing their ground….and equality…

Xena~ Racer knows how to gird his loins. BUT I don’t want a troublemaker messing with one of my friends, either. Questioning an idea or theory is one thing , and OK for this blog. But attacking the POSTER of that idea or theory is NOT acceptable. Let’s ride. Hoodies up!

Malisha~ ((((((APPLAUSE!!!!)))))) Unit Ron is not one of my favorite posters. I am Hispanic and I (unfortunately) live in Texas, and I don’t find that comment disrespectful at all. Like you said, it was the surprise change that made the humor. No, GZ deserves NO consideration beyond his Constitutional rights. As it is, he’s been LUCKY to have been granted bail, not once but TWICE! By all rights, he SHOULD be in jail waiting for his trial. Instead of focusing on that, his entire sick posse has been busy bashing, doxing, begging and being all around bastards and racists. Yup. I agree with you.

I feel in this case, the state has a good argument that a lot of the media action, I’d even go as far as saying 85%, are the cause of Fogenhats’ actions and Junior with his family, scouring the media for air time.

Absolutely. If the defense had played their cards close to their chest and stayed out of the limelight, they would have had a better crack at an immunity hearing. Instead they chase will-o-wisps and spend money like drunken monkeys.