The executives and employees of Enigma Software Group, Inc. (NASDAQ OTCBB:ENGM), the makers of Spyhunter, have selected this location as a venue for an open technical discussion on SpyHunter with the internet security community. We have invited several experts, but anyone is welcome to participate in this discussion.

The guidelines of this website do not require users to identify themselves. Enigma does however request that participants in this discussion thread identify themselves. This is to help ensure that the discussion will not be subverted by those who would post comments for anticompetitive purposes. Accordingly, Enigma requests that participants in this forum thread first introduce themselves and provide their name, address, and occupation.

3. We notice these sites Temerc.com, malwarebytes,org, securitycadets.com, malwareteks.com often post on each others forums, or have administrative capabilities over each others forums, and would like to know more about the relationship between these sites?

4. Is it fair to consider the opinions posted on these sites fair and objective when they have affiliate links, and/or self developed commercial applications?

5. Should the group of sites mentioned in question 3 be classified as Neutral/Objective internet security critics journalists, bloggers etc. Or a coordinated campaign from competitors?

C) We will not answers questions concerning:

1. Trade Secrets

2. Financial Information

3. Unrelated Personal Information

This discussion may contain forward-looking statements relating to the development of Enigma Software Group, Inc.'s products and services and future operating results, including statements regarding Enigma Software Group's software, that are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. The words "believe," "expect," "intend," "anticipate," variations of such words, and similar expressions identify forward-looking statements, but their absence does not mean that the statement is not forward-looking. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and are subject to certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions that are difficult to predict. Factors that could affect Enigma Software Group Inc.'s actual results include the progress and costs of the development of our products and services, the timing of market acceptance of those products and services and subscriber cancellations and returns. Readers are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date of this release. Enigma Software Group, Inc. undertakes no obligation to update publicly any forward-looking statements to reflect new information, events or circumstances after the date of this release or to reflect the occurrence of unanticipated events.

As I told Alvin in my email a little while ago, I do NOT suggest that anyone post their address and phone number. In fact, we heavily discourage that on a public forum._________________Former Microsoft MVP 2005-2009, Consumer Security
Please do not PM or Email me for personal support. Post in the Forums instead and we will all learn.

I understand why this is so. We are very excited to be here. I am in the process of forwarding the link to all the Enigmanites. I will ask each of them to introduce themselves as they enter the discussion.

3. We notice these sites Temerc.com, malwarebytes,org, securitycadets.com, malwareteks.com often post on each others forums, or have administrative capabilities over each others forums, and would like to know more about the relationship between these sites?

Just friends trying to help the internet community ....

AlvinEstevez wrote:

4. Is it fair to consider the opinions posted on these sites fair and objective when they have affiliate links, and/or self developed commercial applications?

Depends ... if the opinion posted reflects fact, then yes.

AlvinEstevez wrote:

5. Should the group of sites mentioned in question 3 be classified as Neutral/Objective internet security critics journalists, bloggers etc. Or a coordinated campaign from competitors?

Yes

AlvinEstevez wrote:

3. Unrelated Personal Information

But you wanted name's, addresses and phone numbers?

Irrespective of the above, as has been made very clear from the numerous articles now online, and those published over the years, the main problem (as is the focus of the latest articles) are your marketing practices.

I've got screenshots (PDF'd incase they accidentally disappear) and files, obtained from site's that serve no other purpose than to push SpyHunter.

If you've read the articles, I'm sure you are aware of the domains concerned. If not, there's a list of them here, which includes;

SpywareWarrior has never claimed to be an industry standard, "the" industry standard, or claimed to be the only standard.

I believe that our definition of "rogue/suspect" is clear, but we've never claimed it should be anyone else's definition.

Quote:

"Rogue/Suspect" means that these products are of unknown, questionable, or dubious value as anti-spyware protection.

Some of the products listed on this page simply do not provide proven, reliable anti-spyware protection or may be prone to ridiculous false positives. Others may use unfair, deceptive, high pressure sales tactics to scare up sales from gullible, confused users. A very few of these products are either associated with known distributors of spyware/adware or have been known to install spyware/adware themselves. Not all products exhibit the same problems, however. Please see this "note to readers" for more information.

_________________Former Microsoft MVP 2005-2009, Consumer Security
Please do not PM or Email me for personal support. Post in the Forums instead and we will all learn.

By the way, users are not permitted to edit their own posts here. I realize that can be inconvenient, but that ability has been abused in the past, therefore we dis-allowed it. Some people would like to re-write history after the fact.

Be sure to click Preview before posting so you can make all your corrections. Also we recommend composing your post in Notepad, or some other editor, before posting, as occaisionally the forum software can cause a post to be lost in the process, which is frustrating._________________Former Microsoft MVP 2005-2009, Consumer Security
Please do not PM or Email me for personal support. Post in the Forums instead and we will all learn.

Enigma requests that participants in this forum thread first introduce themselves and provide their name, address, and occupation.

I find it ironic anyone in the Internet Security business would make such a dangerous request. I also refuse to divulge any of that information.

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3. We notice these sites Temerc.com, malwarebytes,org, securitycadets.com, malwareteks.com often post on each others forums, or have administrative capabilities over each others forums, and would like to know more about the relationship between these sites?

What makes you want to know? I think I am the only person that has any multiple administrative capabilities on any of those forums. They are not however, the only forums on which I have administrative capabilities.

I often post items of interest to all the forums I have administrative capabilities on and to even more that I am simply a member of. This is common practice among all members of the antimalware community.

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4. Is it fair to consider the opinions posted on these sites fair and objective when they have affiliate links, and/or self developed commercial applications?

What is fair to consider is anything posted on these sites will have links to their source and fact to back them. Objectivity is not an issue.

We stand together united in a common cause and support each other and share information. There are scores of forums involved in an organization known as the Alliance of Security Analysis Professionals, or ASAP. I'm surprised you have no knowledge of the nature of the antimalware community and yet claim to have a reputable software application.

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5. Should the group of sites mentioned in question 3 be classified as Neutral/Objective internet security critics journalists, bloggers etc. Or a coordinated campaign from competitors?

I detect a paranoid undertone in this question. How can a group of journalists, or bloggers be your competitor? Does Enigma engage in journalism? I have never seen an Enigma blog. Blogs by nature are not usually neutral they normally reflect the opinions of the writer on what ever the blog entry is about.

Now if you are referring to the forum spammers that are linking to the sites that have download links to your product, that is a bit different. Last time I checked spammers were not considered journalists.

While I can only speak for myself and no one else, I certainly am on a campaign against those forum and Digg spammers linking to those sites that download your program. I take great pleasure in banning them when I get the chance and in Digging them down. However, I just don't see how any of my actions can be seen as competition. But even if they are, so be it. I certainly would not be your only competitor. _________________Hoax~Slayer * hpHosts * T.I.C. * Malwarebytes * A.S.A.P. Member 2004

To answer your issue with multiple sites it is so odd to me?????? and very funny too!

So PC Doctor, Alluria Software, and other commercial Anti-Spyware makers should not have affiliates?

What about you and your buddies’ blogging away between each other and other forums and blogs to get links back to your sites?

There is nothing wrong or misleading about having multiple sites or affiliates promoting your products.

Also, we do not use affiliate IDs because we developed a better system on tracking our downloads, installs, and conversions. Our affiliates use a system which simply has a simple download link with the Spyhunter trial each affiliate can rename the trial to what they want it to be.

Please keep the conversation about the facts, and state technically what is our crime.. I hear a lot of opinion, but no technical reason why we are a rogue.

I am sure that PconTech misfact, is not the only misconception you are posting about..... We will review more of them. Best to use this forum to go over the list. Why don't you post a list of all your issues? Let's explore them!

I hear a lot of anger from you and your pals , I hope this is not about human jealousy? Seems you were angry of the fact we make money! is this correct?

Before you judge us, why don’t you take this opportunity to speak one-on-one with the folks at Enigma.

I assume you folks have real jobs and families. I am assuming I am speaking with ladies and gentlemen.

I am assuming I am speaking to decent people...........

Let's get to the heart of the issues. We came here to get to know you all....... and clear the air...

Enigma requests that participants in this forum thread first introduce themselves and provide their name, address, and occupation.

I find it ironic anyone in the Internet Security business would make such a dangerous request. I also refuse to divulge any of that information.

Quote:

3. We notice these sites Temerc.com, malwarebytes,org, securitycadets.com, malwareteks.com often post on each others forums, or have administrative capabilities over each others forums, and would like to know more about the relationship between these sites?

What makes you want to know? I think I am the only person that has any multiple administrative capabilities on any of those forums. They are not however, the only forums on which I have administrative capabilities.

I often post items of interest to all the forums I have administrative capabilities on and to even more that I am simply a member of. This is common practice among all members of the antimalware community.

Quote:

4. Is it fair to consider the opinions posted on these sites fair and objective when they have affiliate links, and/or self developed commercial applications?

What is fair to consider is anything posted on these sites will have links to their source and fact to back them. Objectivity is not an issue.

We stand together united in a common cause and support each other and share information. There are scores of forums involved in an organization known as the Alliance of Security Analysis Professionals, or ASAP. I'm surprised you have no knowledge of the nature of the antimalware community and yet claim to have a reputable software application.

Quote:

5. Should the group of sites mentioned in question 3 be classified as Neutral/Objective internet security critics journalists, bloggers etc. Or a coordinated campaign from competitors?

I detect a paranoid undertone in this question. How can a group of journalists, or bloggers be your competitor? Does Enigma engage in journalism? I have never seen an Enigma blog. Blogs by nature are not usually neutral they normally reflect the opinions of the writer on what ever the blog entry is about.

Now if you are referring to the forum spammers that are linking to the sites that have download links to your product, that is a bit different. Last time I checked spammers were not considered journalists.

While I can only speak for myself and no one else, I certainly am on a campaign against those forum and Digg spammers linking to those sites that download your program. I take great pleasure in banning them when I get the chance and in Digging them down. However, I just don't see how any of my actions can be seen as competition. But even if they are, so be it. I certainly would not be your only competitor.

Quote:

what is your relashionship with Malwarebytes, Security Cadet, TeMerc, Malwareteks and MysteryFCM? Do you wish Enigma ceases to be in business?

Please post your complaints or issue here on this forum (Spywarewarrior.com) so we can all see it and we can "quote" and comment and analyze it in one place.

As the article was written prior to this threads existence, re-posting the entire thing here would be silly.

AlvinEstevez wrote:

To answer your issue with multiple sites it is so odd to me?????? and very funny too!

odd?, funny? .... why exactly?

AlvinEstevez wrote:

So PC Doctor, Alluria Software, and other commercial Anti-Spyware makers should not have affiliates?

I never said you shouldn't have affiliates ....

AlvinEstevez wrote:

What about you and your buddies’ blogging away between each other and other forums and blogs to get links back to your sites?

What about it?. I wrote the article because I wanted to. I couldn't give a hoot about links back to my site

AlvinEstevez wrote:

There is nothing wrong or misleading about having multiple sites or affiliates promoting your products.

There is when it's not made clear what is being offered

There is when it's claimed to be a free solution, but requires payment for removal

AlvinEstevez wrote:

Also, we do not use affiliate IDs because we developed a better system on tracking our downloads, installs, and conversions. Our affiliates use a system which simply has a simple download link with the Spyhunter trial each affiliate can rename the trial to what they want it to be.

Indeed, having a better method isn't a bad thing. It becomes that way when the user is only told AFTER downloading the file, what is actually being installed.

AlvinEstevez wrote:

anti-spyware-101.com/download/Free-Spyware-Scanner99314p2s5.exe does an php redirect to our a013.com tracking and distribution server. the actual download will look like this Free-Spyware-Scanner-Install.exe to make it easy on the user to download and remember the file name.

Why not SpyHunter-Install.exe ?? ...... it's not "Free" as it requires payment to remove whatever it finds.

AlvinEstevez wrote:

I hear a lot of anger from you and your pals , I hope this is not about human jealousy? Seems you were angry of the fact we make money! is this correct?

Jealousy? .... and who do I have to be jealous of exactly?

AlvinEstevez wrote:

Before you judge us, why don’t you take this opportunity to speak one-on-one with the folks at Enigma.

Doesn't that defeat the object of creating this thread?

AlvinEstevez wrote:

I assume you folks have real jobs and families. I am assuming I am speaking with ladies and gentlemen.

Let just clarify... people do have the right to state their opinions. In fact, Alvin, you've already expressed your opinions several times with statements like this one:

Quote:

What about you and your buddies’ blogging away between each other and other forums and blogs to get links back to your sites?

Unless you are clairvoyant or omniscient, you don't really know the motives or purpose behind folks' blogging and linking. You are making an assumption and stating an opinion there.

Another statement of opinion and assumption:

Quote:

I hear a lot of anger from you and your pals , I hope this is not about human jealousy? Seems you were angry of the fact we make money! is this correct?

So let's be realistic -- it goes both ways. Everyone has opinions and the right to state their opinions -- hopefully backed up with facts and reasons why they came to have that opinion._________________Former Microsoft MVP 2005-2009, Consumer Security
Please do not PM or Email me for personal support. Post in the Forums instead and we will all learn.

Would not advise anyone to install your product, as a matter of fact I would advise removing it. For the simple reason that your company practices in the past sucked.

IMHO that makes your product crapware not rogue.

1.If it was worth the money seams like you would advertise with out piggy backing on another name.
2.Offer a free trial, instead of trying to get the money before they find out it isn't what they wanted.

Even if I didn't know your product, I wouldn't advise others to use it. You use free scan find a cookie and ask them to pay to remove it ROFLMAO

Get a real live and a good product then join the real world with a little dignity.

Just a question what are you trying to do here? You can dress a dog up to go dancing but your still with a dog......

I think the best course of action here is to cut to the chase and address the issues that recently brought Spy Hunter and Enigma Software renewed critical scrutiny on security forums such as this one.

So far as I can tell, the complaints you've seen on other security forums were provoked by the following practices of Enigma Software or its affiliates:

1. The registration & use of a large number of apparently unrelated domain names and sites (e.g., 411-spyware.com, etc.) to promote Spy Hunter. This in itself is not unethical, however, when combined with the following practices, the use of these domains -- which give the false appearance of being independent and not related to Spy Hunter -- has raised a great deal of suspicion, esp. in light of Enigma's past practices (which are well documented elsewhere at SpywareWarrior.com).

2. The misleading and deceptive promotion of Spy Hunter at these domains as an unnamed free removal tool, when in fact what users are being directed to download is a crippled trial version of Spy Hunter. The obvious questions are: why fail to disclose the product's name at these web sites?; why promote the product as a free removal tool when in fact it is not?

3. The promotion of these sites -- and, by extension, Spy Hunter itself -- through comment spam on security forums, a deplorable practice which is now well documented. The folks who run these forums, blogs, and help sites are providing services to the internet community largely out of their pockets. Even if a few of these forums and sites might be recovering some of their costs through affiliate sales of anti-malware products, no one in this niche community is getting rich. These sites and forums are labors of love, in a sense, and the volunteers who give their time helping afflicted internet users don't take kindly to their online labors being co-opted by a stealth online marketing campaign for an anti-spyware product that won't even perform removals in trial mode.

These are the issues that you really ought to address, as these are the practices that have raised the ire of folks in the online security forum community.

Before I close, let me offer a bit of advice on how NOT to respond to these complaints:

1. Don't dismiss the objectionable practices discussed above as the doings a few rogue affiliates. Even if they are affiliates, you're responsible for how these affiliates promote your product. "Our lousy affiliates did it" is not an excuse that any one around here is going to listen to.

2. Don't attempt to minimize the objectionable practices noted above by changing the subject to what other companies might be doing online. You'll gain no credibility among readers of this thread by trying to tell us that other companies are doing the same or worse, and that we really ought to be picking on them and not you. Even if other companies are engaged in dubious marketing practices, that fact doesn't provide any kind of excuse for what's recently been done in the name of Spy Hunter.

3. Don't play victim. You're the only participant in this discussion with legal muscle, and the only participant with a history of threatening to use it, so please don't tell us what an awful time you've had at the hands of critics. Those critics exist because of a documented history of past actions, and they're making a fuss now because of a newly uncovered marketing campaign that looks to be an extension of those past actions.

So, please, let's to it. You asked for this discussion, and it would be a shame to squander the opportunity by getting sidetracked on tangential issues.

Eric L. Howes

Last edited by eburger68 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total

This information is totally irrelevant to this thread. I for one, don't care where ESG originated, where it is going or where it's been. I do however care about the spamvertising currently being strewn about the Net. This is all well documented. Lets leave anything about ESG's past, present or future inroads in the life of business. Try and focus on the spamvertising.

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2. What is the background of Enigma's management and staff?

Once again, totally irrelevant to the purpose and reason you have been 'called out' as the case may be. Spamvertising.

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3. What is our mission?

Once again, totally unrelated to this thread. On the other hand, tho, it's obvious your 'mission', to make money any way you think you can. Ethical or not. Of course everyone has their own opinions on ethics, mine obviously do not match yours.

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4. What is Enigma's business model and what are our services?

Who cares? Not me. If perhaps I was a VC group, I might, but I'm not. I'm a nobody with an opinion about how companies should conduct themselves online when it comes to putting forth a product with claims that in many cases, are not a they appear on it's face.

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5. The anatomy of SpyHunter and it's web systems?

Ok so I'm beginning to start like a broken record here. No one cares. Not one bit, really. All we are talking about is how you currently market your product via the spamvertising, plain and simple. Try and focus....hard.

I can certainly see it as a good model for one, tho I have never seen or read that any particular entity outside of groups like ASAP, UNITE and a few others use it as a 'guide'. I'd wager to say that if presented these 'standards' to a lay person, they would deem them pretty reasonable.

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2. If not, what is the industry standard definition of a rogue?

You'll have to ask whoever it is that calls you a rogue. I think the AntiSpyware Coalition has a pretty good definition, but it's been some time since I visited that topic, so don't quote me.

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3. We notice these sites Temerc.com, malwarebytes,org, securitycadets.com, malwareteks.com often post on each others forums, or have administrative capabilities over each others forums, and would like to know more about the relationship between these sites?

We are a group of nobodies, offering their time and money, mostly without any major compensation to end users who need it. We don't limit ourselves to security. Most forums while focusing on that, also offer users a wider variety of Pc related help. This is one of my peeves about your spamvertising. The posts by these 'affiliates', which I'm sure you will either disavow or explain you can't control them, merely post links to the affiliate sites, and don't offer anything else in any way shape, manner or form. Tag team a forum, one guy asks about an infection, the next guy links to affiliate. Poor ethics. Want to get your product out there? Buy advertising. Spend some of the money you make on legit copy to show the public what you have to offer. But again, we are getting into an ethics thing, and yours in comparison to mine, leave much to be desired. But maybe that's just me, I don't know.

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4. Is it fair to consider the opinions posted on these sites fair and objective when they have affiliate links, and/or self developed commercial applications?

This actually makes me laugh. For all the links you seem to think you see, is there a single thread where someone who is named in the press release you mentioned, where someone posted a link to a competitors product? Now, I'm no lawyer and maybe a link to a specialized freeware tool is considered a competitor, but I doubt it. Some of us have relationships with security vendors, yes, that's true. But we don't post to your spamvertising links with links of our own to links which point to our own 'competitor\affiliates', do we?

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5. Should the group of sites mentioned in question 3 be classified as Neutral/Objective internet security critics journalists, bloggers etc. Or a coordinated campaign from competitors?

Well as stated, our sole interest in this thread and the point of all our rebuttal to your spamvertising threads is all about ethics. Does SpyHunter actually remove any of the said infections? I doubt it, but then, it's not relevant to this thread. I could care less. I know Ad-Aware, Spybot Search & Destroy don't as almost any anti-spyware tool you can bring up.

I'll summarize my replies to most of your concerns:
Focus on spamvertising and how to eliminate it. We will all go away to our respective corners helping those in need with their problems on PCs, be it spyware hardware or what have you.

We are going to put a news release on the newswire to let folks know where to join us.
Tomorrow, we will first to begin introducing the Enigma folks. We will be disclosing Names, Title, Job Function, who we are, etc.

Hi I'm Andy or known as AndyAtHull, owner of securitycadets.com.

I will go into details later as I have a busy morning ahead of me but will this news release be public? Please don't let it be. I have refrained from posting an updated opinion of mine untill discussions have taken place. You have already flooded this forum with about 4 or 5 others here. Please leave any release untill after discussions no matter what situation it is.

This is not a marketing ploy for us here and any result in discussions should be released AFTER any taken discussions. However if it's a private release then I don't have any issues other than the ones I have mentioned on my site.

Antimalware vendors that kick malware butt in an ethical way get a lot of positive press from respected organizations and individuals .

Antimalware vendors that are mediocre and practice questionable advertising get a lot of negative press .

Enigma controls its own destiny , not us . Do what you want but understand that you will be judged . That is the nature of the business and will not change . Less knowledgeable users will never stop asking "do you recommend X and why or why not" and we will never stop honestly answering that question based on our independent research .

In the interest of full disclosure this was my most recent thread dealing with spyhunter :

In 2004, Enigma Software was labeled as a security threat by their competitor Lavasoft. In response to this listing, as well as to an orchestrated campaign of false statements posted on Lavasoft's website forum, Enigma filed a complaint in New York Federal Court. A copy of the complaint can be found at the following link: LAVASOFT COMPLAINT http://www.enigmasoftware.com/Enigma_Software_Group-Versus-Lavasoft-2004.pdf. That case ended in a settlement, and Lavasoft is no longer listing Enigma Software Group's products.

Please post a link to a document containing the terms of that settlement.

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: This is the post that we want to explore in detail!

nosirrah wrote:

Why don't we boil this down the core .

Antimalware vendors that kick malware butt in an ethical way get a lot of positive press from respected organizations and individuals .

Antimalware vendors that are mediocre and practice questionable advertising get a lot of negative press .

Enigma controls its own destiny , not us . Do what you want but understand that you will be judged . That is the nature of the business and will not change . Less knowledgeable users will never stop asking "do you recommend X and why or why not" and we will never stop honestly answering that question based on our independent research .

In the interest of full disclosure this was my most recent thread dealing with spyhunter :

The terms of that settlement where never discosed and you are making assumptions ..... please let's explore the facts.....

That's what I was hoping to do but since you won't disclose the facts...

Quote:

That case ended in a settlement, and Lavasoft is no longer listing Enigma Software Group's products.

The settlement can not be accepted as an exoneration of Enigma's practices without disclosure of the terms.

--

Having worked in the legal environment for many decades, I can assure you that many times settlements are reached merely because it is much less costly in both time and legal costs to "settle", with neither party admitting "fault"._________________,

What is your connection to Malwarebytes, Security Cadet, and MalwareTeks?

Are they your buddies?

Do you want Enigma not to be in business?

Do you and your buddies work in tandum to show Enigma in a bad light in order to guive yourselves more credibility and to promote your affiliate sponsored products and your home made applications?

Are you buddies listing Enigma on their applications as Malware?

Suzi, clearly stated that Eric's rougue list it is not the industry de facto standard, which you post like doctrine.

Enigma wants to continue to conduct business. We would like nothing more than to have good relations with your community. What is the core of all your hatred?

but please in a simple short praragraph..... How can we solve this issue?

And no ....My affilaites will not take down their sites! They are not doing anything wrong... other than irritating you. If the file name should be named FREE-SCANNER rather than FREE-REMOVAL-TOOL......... I agree with Eric Howes!

What else should change?

I want to comply with what makes sense......

Also, for the record I find Suzi, Eric and Benjamin the 3 most credidable people here, as far as finding a resolution to all these issues.

Eric, I understand that to them, this is a labor of love, and it should be.

But we also have folks who blog, and yes they are Spyhunter supporters...should they be banned simply because they are promoting spyhunter and not malwarebytes utility or winpatrol?

It seems to me that this is about forum and blogging rights....... more than anything else ... is this a correct conclusion?

Your group .... throws that word around a lot. We would love to be educated on your definition of credibility?

I am sorry if I sound repetitious ... I wanted to get TeMerc's answer that question.... Sorry if I asked the same question again .... I just want to be clear that you guys are all friends and collaborate with each other...........

What questions am I dodging. If you read my first post, I cannot discuss financial information that we did not disclose to the public, and I will not violate the terms of settlement. THAT IS FINAL!

Now I know you're joking ....... the ONLY finance related question referred to Lavasoft, so once again I ask - did you bother to read the articles and the posts here?, or just skim over them?._________________Regards

1. STOP spamming forums
how can my affilaites "legitimately" be part of the forums? So you guys have more right than my people?

They might try making some sort of valuable contribution other than a link back to your product injected into a HiJack This! thread.

It is considered extremely rude to enter any comment into a HJT thread unless the poster is the helper and almost all forums require authorization of helpers._________________Hoax~Slayer * hpHosts * T.I.C. * Malwarebytes * A.S.A.P. Member 2004