Question is very American.
I'm British and have only been here a short while, but my culture isn't the one I'm surrounded by now, and the terms of my immigration here have limited my ability to express it, albeit only for a limited amount of time.

This is an honest attempt at an answer, by a confused person trying to adjust to America, so take it with a pinch of salt.

I think "race" based culture is a crock in the main.

White American does not have the same culture as white Brit, as white Bulgarian, as a white Swede, etc.
Someone facetiously said country music is white culture, it was funny. But it's a good superficial example, try taking that shit anywhere expect Poland and see what kind of reaction you get.
My guess for why white people in America do not embrace "whiteness" because white people are on top.
Most white people in the U.S. won't even acknowledge their privilege, so they aren't going to bond around it. (Not that it would be a good idea to do that)
In my experience, if you're on the shit end of the deal, you're more likely to bond with people who are also getting the shit end of the deal and look for commonality, especially if the society you inhabit has removed you from your history, or legislates against you being able to practice your culture freely.

I guess you could say "white", "black" or "other racial term" culture is real if you look at it purely from a modern American perspective, but those labels are kind of lazy and incomplete without being put in that context.

But then I have a problem with the a lot of terms here, for example Anglo-Centrism as an interchangeable term for white supremacy is laughable to me.

prolific memorie, that sounds odd, I have relatives from Northern Ireland and they don't talk like they are from the movie "Highlander" or something like that.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:17 am

mortalthoughtsLAME KID

Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 11616
Location: MI

shambhala wrote:

mortalthoughts, do not ever phrase this question again using the term "white," which is an identity that was constructed to justify colonialism.

fair enough, what would another way to ask this then?

im genuinely interested in stuff like this but obviously not as well versed in the topic as some of the people here ...hence why i asked

Last edited by mortalthoughts on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total

Mark in Minnesota wrote: My father's ethnicity is Finnish; his grandparents were all socialists who emigrated from Finland after the "Reds" lost the civil war. Because so many of the Finns who came across after that war were socialists and communists, Finns in America had more trouble integrating than other Europeans who came across during that time period. They had trouble getting mining jobs in Northern Minnesota because it was assumed (often correctly) that they would lead attempts to unionize.

My father grew up mostly around other second- and third- generation ethnic Finns; their parents were for the most part ardent liberals and socialists, and many of them worked for co-ops.

Pretty much everyone on his side of my family celebrates St. Urho's Day; many of them are sauna enthusiasts; my father himself has gone to visit Finland and has learned a fair amount of the language. He's in touch with his ethnic heritage and has tried to pass it on to me.

With me, it hasn't really taken. I have a little bit of historical interest in Finland because of it, but I don't identify as part of the "Finno-American" culture the way my dad seems to. My mother's family is a mix of a lot of different ethnic groups; mostly English, Swedish, German, but a lot of random stuff in there too, even a little Native American. So I don't closely identify as part of my father's ethnic heritage, and my mother doesn't really have one.

Hey man, that's a really interesting read, from a Finnish perspective. It's a new thing for me to read this sort of stuff.

Quote: "The designation of St Urho as patron saint of the Finnish is particularly humorous because 82.5% of the Finnish population is affiliated with the Lutheran Church, which does not recognize the Feasts of Saints."

I don't know if you knew that... really. Maybe it's common knowledge there and you just like to celebrate it. But that stuff is new to me. Urho is a Finnish name though!

My mother's side of the family is also red and my grandpa is a socialist/communist. (He's also the greatest man alive.) His sister went to Sweden, but no one went overseas. Hitto, maybe some of our relatives fought together in Tampere or somewhere - for the workers' cause.

There are a lot of Finns that went to North America (Canada, Minnesota etc.), I've read about them and I know that they have Finnish schools and all, but it's kind of weird to think about that stuff. Finns are a really small group of people in the modern world and we practically never see Finns outside Finland. So, for me, it's interesting to hear about people who live so far away and still feel Finnish, like your dad.

It's kind of weird, the whole thing about connecting to a culture, though. Living in a pretty homogenous culture where everybody likes sauna and alcohol and hates the boss, you never really think about "your" culture. There's nothing else there than your culture, you know. In the world of internet and satellites, we are still a homogenous bunch of people in a forgotten cold Northern land, still going to the sauna, forming unions and drinking Koskenkorva and being melancholic. I never "celebrate" my culture or whatever. But I do like the stuff that we here do and appreciate the fact that we have our own difficult language. That's the main thing, I suppose... I couldn't be Finnish without the language.

I really haven't thought about it much further. Never had to.

Mark, say Terve to your dad from a dude whose family is from Karjala and who celebrates Juhannus very drunk.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:04 pm

icarus502kung-pwn master

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 11291
Location: ann arbor

Fresh off the presses! Surprised nobody's put this up yet.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:17 pm

Mr 9999Judge and Jury

Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1296

He's officially earned himself the King Dipshit crown he is now wearing. Palin is wearing the tiara.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:26 pm

Confidential

Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 2040

that guy has zero logic. how do argue with someone with no logic?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:37 pm

Captiv8

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 8546
Location: Third Coast

Confidential wrote: that guy has zero logic. how do argue with someone with no logic?

It usually comes down to a punch in the face.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:44 pm

xGasPricesx

Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 1612

icarus502 wrote:

Fresh off the presses! Surprised nobody's put this up yet.

mancabbage did put it up in the random video thread.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:02 pm

tommi teardrop

Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 2222
Location: Las Vegas

White people should identify as white and not their country of ancestry because in most everyday circumstances, being irish or french does not play near as big of a role in your life as being white does.

The consequence of a guy that is eager to call himself irish or nordic rather than white is that in doing so he often downplays the privilege and blind opportunity that comes with being recognized as a white person. In modern american culture, most all european ancestry is white. Sure there are some individual stereotypes and solidarity among different groups of whites, but big picture, we all benefit from the lightness of our skin. Thus acknowledging yourself as white shows that you at least recognize the power struggle between the races.

Calling yourself a european american is frowned upon because the term implies that european american and african american are the same sort of groups, just cut from a different cloth. It ignores the historic realities behind most groups' migration to this country while also ignoring the role the propensity for assimilation has played in the respective subcultures. This is why many race theorists group jews with whites

Being white sort of means that you should not celebrate your culture. You should acknowledge the beneficial nature of your whiteness, but not be proud of it.

When people speak of american culture, I think they should realize that all of these things represent a part of what it it means to be american. But I think when most people say "american culture" they are actually talking about pop culture and mixing with that a arrogant sense of democratic federalism and puritan nonsense.