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misac wrote:Scott is obsessive though, it’s not farfetched that he’d spend more time training.

This. Like I said, over the years we have seen that Scott is far more disciplined than most of Xavier's other students. He has always taken his role seriously and when you consider the fact that he has basically been training to take over as the leader of all mutant kind for the majority of his life, its not hard to imagine that hand to hand combat is one of the things that he mastered.

PDH wrote:Lots of people are obsessive. J. Jonah Jameson is obsessive but nobody thinks he could beat up Elektra. 'It's not far fetched' is not a reason to think of it in the first place. It wouldn't be far-fetched if someone told me that Reed Richards is the best martial artist of all time. Why not? I could easily think up reasons why that would make sense. I could do the same for any number of characters. But nobody does. For some reason, Cyclops is seen as this particularly good fighter. I just want to know where that came from.

The difference between Scott Summers and people like J. Jonah Jameson, is the fact that Scott has actually been training to fight a war and survive since he was a teenager. J. Jonah Jameson is obsessed with a guy who dresses up in spandex, he doesn't get out there and engage him in fisticuffs whenever he feels like it, he hires other people to do that for him. Reed Richards is a scientist who uses his brain to solve problems, he might inflate his hands into giant fists and try to pummel his opponent every now and then but he always bets on his ability to out think his opponent rather than engaging in violence. Scott Summers used to literally get pummeled with bricks when he walked out on the street to get milk, just because he is a mutant.

Grayson wrote:The difference between Scott Summers and people like J. Jonah Jameson, is the fact that Scott has actually been training to fight a war and survive since he was a teenager. J. Jonah Jameson is obsessed with a guy who dresses up in spandex, he doesn't get out there and engage him in fisticuffs whenever he feels like it, he hires other people to do that for him. Reed Richards is a scientist who uses his brain to solve problems, he might inflate his hands into giant fists and try to pummel his opponent every now and then but he always bets on his ability to out think his opponent rather than engaging in violence. Scott Summers used to literally get pummeled with bricks when he walked out on the street to get milk, just because he is a mutant.

Did you see the rest of the post? I edited it.

Anyways, put as much effort into defending the hypothesis that Reed Richards is the best hand-to-hand fighter in all of history as you are currently putting into the hypothesis that Cyclops is some Shang-Chi level fighter and you will easily be able to do it. I'm not denying that you can make up a story about Cyclops being some great fighter. You could do exactly the same thing with any number of characters.

Where did the idea that Cyclops was a particularly great fighter come from?

Anyways, put as much effort into defending the hypothesis that Reed Richards is the best hand-to-hand fighter in all of history as you are currently putting into the hypothesis that Cyclops is some Shang-Chi level fighter and you will easily be able to do it. I'm not denying that you can make up a story about Cyclops being some great fighter. You could do exactly the same thing with any number of characters.

I wouldn't say that Cyclops is in the same level as Shang-Chi or Iron Fist, however, I would say that an argument could be made that Cyclops wouldn't really have much trouble with a small group of Hydra soldiers or a couple of Hand ninjas. If he were ever to go hand to hand with the Taskmaster, I'm sure that Cyclops could hold his own but I don't know that he could actually definitively beat him unless he used his optic blasts.

Where did the idea that Cyclops was a particularly great fighter come from?

I really don't know that there is one definitive story where you can go back and point and say "there it is" but rather just years worth of stories where Cyclops is capable of handling himself in any situation, whatever that situation may be.

PDH wrote:Honestly, I think it probably comes from the Capcom fighting games.

Holy crap, I bet that's totally it.

Again to clarify, being a super hero is his job. I have no doubts that Scott could handle a bunch of thugs or punch a Marauder in the face in between eye blasts. It's just the "Don't forget Cyclops" posts when determining whether Black Panther or Iron Fist is the tenth best hand to hand fighter in the 616 that has me scratching my head.

So have most of the X-Men, yes. But none if the OTHERS have been as focused, because Cyclops always had to be on the lookout for a "training accidents" Logan might arrange to clear the way to Jean. Doubt me? Remember he pulled that on Spidey: stabbed him in the gut during a training session at Avengers Tower...

I would say that Cyclops at his best would be Nightwing level good in a fistfight but if you're comparing him to people like Iron Fist, Batman, Captain America, Elektra, Lady Shiva, Black Canary, Shang Chi, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, Cassandra Cain or Storm Shadow then nope.

Y'know, I'm sure there are plenty of scenes from various issues to demonstrate that Cyclops is a kick-ass fighter...but I'm honestly drawing a blank on any specific one. I just don't think of him that way.

alaska1125 wrote:Y'know, I'm sure there are plenty of scenes from various issues to demonstrate that Cyclops is a kick-ass fighter...but I'm honestly drawing a blank on any specific one. I just don't think of him that way.