Mimic_Octopus:crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ? Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer. A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Yeah, and race gas is $9.50/gallon, but I still go to the track and have fun and accept it as the cost of enjoying my favorite things. I don't look at the government and accuse them of hoarding that strategic oil reserve and refusing to give me some relief so I can burn rubber for less money.

Nobody, including the government, owes you cheap ways to practice your hobby. Do something else if you can't afford it.

Mimic_Octopus:crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ? Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer. A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

I recommend you thank the great and powerful NRA for scaring a few million half-wits into stocking up on enough ammo to invade Canada before OBAMA COMES FOR THEIR GUNS. Supply and demand is a bitach, ain't it?

Mimic_Octopus:crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ? Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer. A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Crazy farks like you should not own guns. If you are stupid enough to believe this shiat.

detritus:Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now. Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

Establishing mutli-year contracts and price caps to replace expiring ones and actually 'buying' are two different things. Most of the big numbers being thrown around are by taking the maximum number off of multi-year contracts for every department and every year of the contract. The rounds have not actually been 'bought' or acquired so blaming them for any issues in the supply chain doesn't make any sense. Even if the DHS acquired a billion rounds, that would still be a very small percentage of production.

Basically, they are based on a huge level of ignorance on how government contracting works. Way to go Patriots!

I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

I sure hope so. 1,000 rounds per year is around the bare minimum needed to keep up one's skills. Most state and local police officers I know shoot several thousand per year, as do most of the private gun owners I know.

1,000 rounds would allow someone to fire ~83 shots per month. That isn't really much at all -- I normally shoot 100-200 rounds per range trip.

ZeroPly:Calmamity: EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?

As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.

I want someone knowledgeable to explain this to me...

The ammo plants have been running at maximum capacity for YEARS now. Since Obama took office, they've been running extra shifts and cranking out huge quantities of ammo. In the last 5 months it went full retard - one of my nephews who works at Walmart said that a skid of ammo came in and people were taking vacation days to come in and buy the maximum allowed, once word got to them. One guy brought in his 5 year old and 7 year old to try to buy extra ammo under their names (no-go, not even at Walmart).

So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.

Shvetz:detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now. Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

detritus:Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now. Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

Mimic_Octopus:crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ? Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer. A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows. Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.

toraque:FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

The derp was flying pretty thick during Bush II's run, especially with the 'he's going to suspend the constitution and declare himself dictator if he loses the election' crowd.

If there's one good thing to be said about idiots, it's that they're fairly consistent regardless of who's actually in power at any given time.

Like I said once before, at some point stuff like this should be considered treason. The right has done more than any terrorist group to cripple the US government. I say let them see Guantanamo first hand... and stay there.

Mimic_Octopus:crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ? Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer. A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

vygramul:That's because the NRA has become the champion of all paranoia that will lead to necessitating "second amendment solutions"

I used to be more sympathetic to your point of view, but you have to admit that Obama's second term has brought a lot of the earlier tinfoil hattery to pass. Sandy Hook was like a dog whistle to a lot of people in both the press and government sector: "It's go time!" The horrible eagerness displayed by gun-control advocates is frankly kind of unsettling. They just seem to want it too much.

flondrix:How much of that advertising is bought by gun & ammo makers or dealers?

Dealers? Practically none. The magazines are sent to people all over the country, so it wouldn't really make sense for someone to advertise in a national publication for a local dealer.

Manufacturers? A fair bit. I'd say that about 70-80% of the ads (ball park estimate) in their magazines are from the firearms industry (including manufacturers of guns, ammo, accessories, etc.).

The subscribers of the magazines are firearms enthusiasts, so it makes sense for companies in that industry to advertise in the magazines, just like it'd make sense for cigar companies to take out ads in Cigar Aficionado.

That doesn't mean the industry has the NRA in its pocket -- the bulk of their funding still comes from individual membership dues. According to their tax records, about 10% of their income is from advertising in publications.

Do the interests of the NRA, its members, many non-member gun owners, and industry overlap? Absolutely. I'm not denying that. I'm simply saying that the claims that the NRA speaks mostly for the industry rather than for its millions of dues-paying members or that it is in the pocket of industry, are not supported by their tax records and other facts.

xmasbaby:FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

Are you familiar with the 9/11 "Truther" movement. I don't pretend to understand it but the machinations on the part of then president Bush seem... intricate and fanciful.

The 9/11 troofers were far more outrageous than the birfers ever was, the OKC troofers are probably the only GOP derp that reaches the 9/11 troofer levels.

FARK rebel soldier:I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

Are you familiar with the 9/11 "Truther" movement. I don't pretend to understand it but the machinations on the part of then president Bush seem... intricate and fanciful.

Molavian:notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days. It almost makes me want to stop reading the site. Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't. Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center. Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.

Eh, if you spam the ignore button, you can turn this place into your own little Free Republic if you want.You know, a precious little bubble, where they ban people who ask awkward questions, and hold each other in their star-spangled underwear.

Oh come on! For a party that is always complaining about wasting tax dollars they sure like wasting them on this kind of idiotic BS.

Republicans, get control of these idiots. You are becoming a laughingstock! and no, the stuff done by Democrats doesn't even come close to the kind of sheer idiocy and lunacy being displayed by the right over the past three years. You look like complete fools.

I fail to see how the U.S. can sustain its status in the world if these morons manage to control the House, Senate and Presidency.

"You don't need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Man, we need to control the bullets, that's right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars... five thousand dollars per bullet... You know why? 'Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.

Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... shiat, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.'

And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your farking head off...if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You'd better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'

So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property."

Shvetz:detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now. Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

Because hollow point rounds are designed for maximum stopping power against human targets. They also have reduced ability to punch through or ricochet heavy targets like walls and vehicles (they still can, but since they are designed to squash and basically splatter on impact, they deliver most of their force to the first thing they hit)

Thus, they are ideal for shooting to stop somebody (i.e. like an intruder or assailant), and have less chance of hurting someone if you miss and it hits a wall or some other obstruction.

Hollow point ammunition is not used by the military only because of Geneva Convention restrictions. It's quite popular with police, and for self defense. It's too expensive to use for generic target practice, but if you're loading a magazine with the idea it might actually be used in a life-or-death shooting, hollow point is one of your better choices.

The government is buying a lot of ammunition. Clearly more ammunition than normal. It just isn't a conspiracy, it is a coincidence. I am guessing that it is the perfect storm of two things..... They had contracts in place that were expiring soon that let them purchase at the pre-crazy prices, and they needed to get the orders in before the sequester kicked in.

heypete:Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?

It's quite common for people to take training courses and practice using the same ammo as they would use in a self-defense situation because it allows them to become accustomed to how the ammo performs (different types of ammo have varying recoil), ensure that it's reliable in their gun (due to the bullet shape, hollowpoints can occasionally run into feeding issues that FMJ bullets don't), etc.

Certain companies like Speer offer training ammo that's ballistically identical to their self-defense loads but use cheaper FMJ bullets for training, but not all companies do this.

I'm just taking issue with the argument that these types of ammo are predominately used for self defence. Do you really think that 51% of hollow points are fired in self defence? Seems our yearly body counts would be more ridiculous than they already are were that the case.

When Senator Imhofe-hotep is not holding the fort against imaginary bands of environmentalists plotting to rape and scalp you, he's holding the fort aganst imaginary bands of socialist Sekret Muslims plotting to take your guns and then join the commie environmentalsts in raping and scalping you.

There goes the last shred of credibility that the man might have had at some point before whoring himself to the Koch Brothers or whoever it is that owns the fossil fuel reserves of the Great State of Oklahomo, where the bull shiat is as high as an elephant's arse.

IMHOFE, PEOPLE. IT'S THE SAME GUY. HE HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY AND MAKES FOX NEWS LOOK LIKE GOSPEL.

Mimic_Octopus:tuna fingers: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ? Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer. A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows. Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.

i'm not scared of anything you idiot, where the fark did this retarded talking point come from ? the same rejects in tight jeans that came up with sports car or hummer = small dick ? . and it is not supply and demand, it is not even making it to the shelf to be bought.

Sure it is. The demand is just far surpassing the supply. There are many more stores in the game (because they can make a lot of money off of suckers who are hoarding) and online sales are increasing. Same amount of ammo through more distribution channels leads to a false sense of scarcity. Economics 101.

The have admitted (and the contracts have always been public) that they have numerous contracts for the next 5 years across multiple departments that would add up to 1.6 Billion rounds only if every single round was purchased for every single agency over the course of every single year of the contracts.

The chances of that actually being the purchases that are made are near zero and they have already said they plan on reducing purchases in the coming year.

heypete:Loki-L: To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.

Care to show a citation for your claim about the NRA being in the pocket of gun & ammo makers?

According to their tax records about half their annual income is from things like advertising (they have several magazines and publications in which they sell ad space) and program fees (e.g. fees for NRA-sanctioned competitions, safety courses, hunters education, training courses, etc.), about half is from paid membership dues, and less than 2% is from contributions from the firearms industry (and most of that is from "round ups" from retailers, where a customer can elect to contribute a few dollars to the NRA at the point of sale).

1. A bill introduced late last week by Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) and Rep. Frank Lucas (R-OK) would ban federal agencies, excluding the Pentagon, from buying more ammunition during a six-month period if it currently possesses more than its monthly averages during the Bush administration.2. Republican lawmakers look to limit federal agency purchases of ammunition3. Lawmakers want to limit government purchases of ammunitionFacebook. OBAMA WANTS TO LIMIT YOUR RIGHT TO PURCHASE AMMO!!

FARK rebel soldier:I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

Actually, the plan is buy the bullets and then return them for a refund, after lacing them with a genetically engineered disease using stem cells from aborted babies. Then law-abiding gun owners will all get get AIDS Butt Cancer when they buy the returned bullets.

J. Frank Parnell:Loki-L: To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.

I suspect all the hysteria about guns being taken away, which is also propagated by the NRA, is intended to drive up gun sales.

If the US government really went rogue in this day and age, they'd just take out problem people with drones or even satellites. They aren't worried about people having guns.

Anyone who was ever in the military knows the "citizens" don't have a hope of standing up against them.1 minigun would settle all the discussions.

Triumph:That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

I wondered about that. In the military, you don't get rewarded with coming in under budget, and are allowed to keep your surplus for a rainy day. The beancounters assume that since that's all you needed last fiscal year, then that's what you'll need this fiscal year.

You'll start seeing commanders placing orders for gigantic HDTVs for every flat surface in the headquarters building, and mass purchasing every ridiculous Mall Ninja accessory for their troops' M4s near the end of the fiscal year, because of that stupid line of thinking.