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Re: Death Penalty

It is a human organism, it is growing and developing. It is most certainly alive.

I'm addressing a statement you made. You are hardly consistent in saying "killing is always wrong." and then endorse killing for other reasons.

Like I said, This is a DP thread, if you want to talk about abortion go to the abortion thread, if you want to talk about when life begins you first need to convince me that I need to engage in that argument. When you have formulated your argument PM me and we can talk about my beliefs regarding what life is. If you can convince me to believe what you believe I will concede. I have strong feelings about choice but am on the fence about the life issue, so let's go somewhere else to talk about that. This is a DP thread.

"You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all" --Randolph J. Dworkin

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

I have beliefs other than the bible... does that make killing OK?

I was responding to a post that said this "The Bible very clearly teaches about love and mercy, yes. But it is equally clear about justice. It's the very premise of the need for Christ's sacrifice." The poster implied that the bible determines justice, in this case the death penalty which I consider to be far from justice, but a means of revenge and murder. They were using the bible as a weapon.

"You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all" --Randolph J. Dworkin

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

Yes. The Death Penalty should be used for extreme cases involving murder, rape, molestation or kidnapping.

I personally don't support the death penalty for anyone besides murderers who have been proven beyond any doubt that they are guilty. As bad as rape, molestation, and kidnapping are, and can be, no life was taken, so no life should be forfeited.

"God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."-C G Jung

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by taxigirl

Like I said, This is a DP thread, if you want to talk about abortion go to the abortion thread, if you want to talk about when life begins you first need to convince me that I need to engage in that argument. When you have formulated your argument PM me and we can talk about my beliefs regarding what life is. If you can convince me to believe what you believe I will concede. I have strong feelings about choice but am on the fence about the life issue, so let's go somewhere else to talk about that. This is a DP thread.

My argument is fine. You don't actually believe that killing is always wrong, do you?

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by lizzie

I personally don't support the death penalty for anyone besides murderers who have been proven beyond any doubt that they are guilty. As bad as rape, molestation, and kidnapping are, and can be, no life was taken, so no life should be forfeited.

I understand. In my opinion a life need not be taken to warrant the death of the criminal... all that is needed is for them to show that they have so little regard for other people as to commit one of those acts for them to face the most extreme and ultimate consequence, their life.

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by taxigirl

I was responding to a post that said this "The Bible very clearly teaches about love and mercy, yes. But it is equally clear about justice. It's the very premise of the need for Christ's sacrifice." The poster implied that the bible determines justice, in this case the death penalty which I consider to be far from justice, but a means of revenge and murder. They were using the bible as a weapon.

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

I understand that. Are there sometimes that killing is OK?

No. Taking a life is wrong, I guess self defense trumps my argument, but that seems like a different topic.

"You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all" --Randolph J. Dworkin

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by taxigirl

No. Taking a life is wrong, I guess self defense trumps my argument, but that seems like a different topic.

By that standard, abortion would be wrong as well. You could argue that a fetus isn't a human, but it certainly has human DNA and genetic coding, and it certainly is alive. Otoh, you could consider that murderers aren't acting in a human manner, so do they still deserve to be treated humanely.

"God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."-C G Jung

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by lizzie

By that standard, abortion would be wrong as well. You could argue that a fetus isn't a human, but it certainly has human DNA and genetic coding, and it certainly is alive. Otoh, you could consider that murderers aren't acting in a human manner, so do they still deserve to be treated humanely.

I never said anything about "human". The arguments about abortion have to prove a fetus is a "person" as defined under the Constitution to gain protection.

Why are people trying to turn the DP argument into a supportive argument against abortion? One has nothing to do with the other. The DP is not used as punishment. It is retribution and revenge, there is no value to the public, it causes more strife and allows the government to kill you under the guise that the "state" ie. the people, are killing you.

"You know, when they came and took away my fourth amendment I kept my yap shut, what the hell, I really didnít have anything to hide anyway. When they grabbed up my second amendment I sat still and bit my tongue because, truth be told, Iím allergic to guns. But here we are, you with your cold hard fingers wrapped around the neck of my first amendment and Iíve got to shout as loud as I can, because if I donít, before you know it, you wonít let me say nothing at all" --Randolph J. Dworkin

Re: Death Penalty

Originally Posted by taxigirl

I never said anything about "human". The arguments about abortion have to prove a fetus is a "person" as defined under the Constitution to gain protection.

Why are people trying to turn the DP argument into a supportive argument against abortion? One has nothing to do with the other. The DP is not used as punishment. It is retribution and revenge, there is no value to the public, it causes more strife and allows the government to kill you under the guise that the "state" ie. the people, are killing you.

It is simply a "consequence" for actions deemed to deserve it and it has nothing to do with revenge. It also has great value for society... it removes an individual that has shown a blatant disregard for fellow humans and their fights.

The reason people keep bringing up abortion, and now I will bring up self defence, is because it shows your position to be inconsistent.