Froggy wrote:Be fair here. Martin was awful to start the season, he improved in Nov/Dec, after he was split with Z, and he was our best d man down the stretch. To say he was terrible the entire season is wrong

but to be double fair, he was only our best dman when letang was out with his 2nd concussion. but yes - it's inaccurate to say he was terrible literally the entire season. but it is accurate to say that overall, he didn't nearly play at the level he should have.

and like pfim said - he's the highest paid defenseman. the excuse that "everyone else sucked too" only goes so far. he has implicitly higher expectations on him.

Letang was abysmal after his injury. He was a much bigger factor in our defensive struggles down the stretch than Martin. I like seeing him jump in the play and score points, but not at the expense of taking care of business in our own end.

I'm not ready to give letang a pass on this season. I know Martin makes more money, but when was the last time anyone mentioned him and the Norris Trophy in three same breath? letang is the #1 guy on this team, and his defensive play the last month of the season was every bit as troubling as Martin's bad start, to me at least.

Id like to see Martin back. But maybe it would be best if he was dealt since it won't matter what he does from here on out...he played bad for like a month and a half.

Look at Fleury... Started off bad last year. There was a very vocal group that seriously wanted Johnson to take over as the starter. Then he is one of the best in the world for like 2 straight years, and the minute he struggles again, people again start complaining about him.

Martin could play like Lidstrom for a year, and the second he gets beat on a goal, the complaining would start again.

Froggy wrote:Letang was abysmal after his injury. He was a much bigger factor in our defensive struggles down the stretch than Martin. I like seeing him jump in the play and score points, but not at the expense of taking care of business in our own end.

Yep.

Froggy wrote:I'm not ready to give letang a pass on this season. I know Martin makes more money, but when was the last time anyone mentioned him and the Norris Trophy in three same breath? letang is the #1 guy on this team, and his defensive play the last month of the season was every bit as troubling as Martin's bad start, to me at least.

Yep.

Froggy wrote:Id like to see Martin back. But maybe it would be best if he was dealt since it won't matter what he does from here on out...he played bad for like a month and a half.

In regards to clearing cap space, Martin is the most likely to be moved of anyone.

Froggy wrote:Look at Fleury... Started off bad last year. There was a very vocal group that seriously wanted Johnson to take over as the starter. Then he is one of the best in the world for like 2 straight years, and the minute he struggles again, people again start complaining about him.

MAF was pretty awful in the playoffs too, but let's not pretend like Martin was just amazing for last season and most of this season until the end...he hasn't played anywhere near his contract since he signed it...and that's on Shero more than anyone.

Froggy wrote:Martin could play like Lidstrom for a year, and the second he gets beat on a goal, the complaining would start again.

MarioLives wrote:So with all the talk about Malone being the tough guy with a big body who protected Malkin and Sid, can't staal or tangradi become this?

We've been waiting for this for Tangradi for some time. It has yet to materialize. Tochet and Stevens were bruisers on either side of Mario, but they were also pretty darn good at putting the puck in the net. ET hasn't shown the ability to do that at the NHL level.

MarioLives wrote:So with all the talk about Malone being the tough guy with a big body who protected Malkin and Sid, can't staal or tangradi become this?

We've been waiting for this for Tangradi for some time. It has yet to materialize. Tochet and Stevens were bruisers on either side of Mario, but they were also pretty darn good at putting the puck in the net. ET hasn't shown the ability to do that at the NHL level.

Okay, this is what really frustrates me with the Tangradi comments.

Tocchet and Stevens played with Mario Lemieux consistenly for multiple seasons. That is line 1, 20 minutes a night.

Eric Tangradi has been nothing short of "ROTTING" away on the 4th line, under 6 minutes a night.

Not with a Sidney Crosby. Not with Evgeni Malkin.Not even with a Jordan Staal.

but with Craig. Adams.

So yet you sit there and said he hasn't produced at the NHL level. The kid isn't a 4th liner, and Bylsma won't even give this kid any top 9 minutes?

He was close to a Point per game status in the AHL in a top 6 role, with less talented centerman. Please feel free to draw me up a diagram on how Eric Tangradi can put the puck into the back of the net when hes playing with Craig Adams, Richard Park, and Arron Asham? When the 101 of that line is to dump the puck, and play defense first. How can a Power Forward mature at this level when he gets limited to 3. Maybe 4. Total shifts a night WITH COMPLETE SCRUBS?

I've seen Tangradi play once on a line with Crosby-Kunitz. It was a preseason game of I believe 2009. That line totaled 4 points. It was vs Toronto, but if you saw that game and didn't know hockey, you'd say wow he looked like the best player on the ice that night. Throwing checks left in right. I saw the kid, on the 4th line, go check Kovalchuk at the Devils blue line, knock the puck off him, take the puck, skate into the zone and set up a goal.

You can't do that consistently, on the 4th line, with 5 minutes a night, with CRAIG ADAMS.

I'm not saying Tangradi is great. I'm not saying he'll be a 20-20 guy. I'm not even saying he's a NHL talent. However how can anyone sit here and say that this kid has already gotten a legit chance is beyond me. HOW CAN YOU TAKE A TOP 6 FORWARD FROM THE MINORS AND PLUG HIM IN ON THE 4TH LINE AND EXPECT RESULTS? At 5 minutes a night or less. Please. It's garbage.

Tangradi looked, I'm not going to say great, but as a legit player in the top 9 versus the Flyers in game 4. His big body created space. He is slightly slow, so I think he would fit well with Staal. Cooke-Staal-Tangradi could be an interesting line next year. If I can say anything its that, he might not sure as many goals as Kennedy next year (20) however, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU...If he started on the 3rd line next year, HE WOULD NOT GO INVISIBLE FOR 6-7 GAMES AT A TIME LIKE TYLER KENNEDY'S 2.0 MILLION DOLLARS DO ALL THE TIME. You can't teach size.

Bylsma needs a reality check. Philly used youth to destroy the Pens. Game 4 and 5 they were their best with a younger lineup.

It's time for Despres next year. Tangradi top 9 next year. Possibly even Strait too. This team doesn't get another cup til we have some cheaper/younger guys on lower cap deals break through.

Didn't Tangradi have a decent primary assist in the first game he played vs philly? Give the kid some time. He's being managed worse than Alvarez for the bucos. It's SICKENING.

So please sir, if you get the time to reply, please explain to me what your expectations were for him on the 4th line, with craig adams, and under 6 minutes a night. He's a power forward that needs a play maker with him. He can go to the net and get the rebound but he doesnt play with anyone good enough to get it to the net consistently.

My expectations of Tangradi playing with Adams involve him outscoring Adams. He has played 40 NHL games. He has 5 points. If he wants to play in a more offensive role, he can't continue to be the worst offensive player on the team.