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Q3 2009: all of the bioshock-survivors come hobbling back home, bruised and half-blinded, only to be forcefully denied entry, denied acknowledgement for the anguish their government will never understand, and left at the border in agony, knowing that things could've been different they could've been BETTER, goddamn it; and the realization that all of our sacrifices: our youth, our friends, our faith in our country and in ourselves led to nothing but THIS; This, the utter failure of a system designed to prevent the very disasters it begets; a system so horribly malformed as to foster the destruction of its own citizens...

From what little I've read about the Big Sister so far, I'm getting this faint Shodan vibe: this eerie mother figure watching and oh-so-easily displeased with you. I wonder if that's what they're going for.

Of course, the problem with this is that it works best if the villain is disembodied and can be any- and everywhere at the same time. Shodan was least effective when she manifested in a body at the end of System Shock 2, at least in my opinion.

To me, that absolutely stands and falls with the execution. Since I don't think there are any truly original ideas in any form of fiction, just (at best) interesting re-combinations of old ideas and good craftsmanship, I don't think we can expect originality. I don't think it exists anymore and hasn't for centuries.

A well done, cleverly integrated Shodan recycle? No problem with that. A cheesy retread that doesn't add anything new or interesting? Gack.

Regardless, attempting a Shodan recycle would be dullness at its best. This sounds bad and really who cares?

Inasmuch as Portal was a Shodan recycle, I think the idea can be successful.

And I don't agree with the "taking the worst part of bioshock and make a game of it" argument. It feels more like they're acknowledging that this particular aspect of the original game was flawed, and now they're trying to remedy it. Playing as a big daddy could've been fun if it had been better implemented, and now that your choice is either a (probably difficult) escort mission or extra Adam, the cost for making a morally positive decision will finally be more severe.

Also, seeing Rapture from the perspective of its first big daddy sounds like a good opportunity for some quality storytelling. I'm actually kind of excited now.

I remember what it was like to be excited about the first one. Having a System Shock -background, hearing about a spiritual sequel was a huge thing for me. I shouldn't have had those expectations, but I remember how fun the waiting was. I hope this game turns out fun for you.

And I don't agree with the "taking the worst part of bioshock and make a game of it" argument. It feels more like they're acknowledging that this particular aspect of the original game was flawed, and now they're trying to remedy it.

I don't want to get on your case in particular here, but you do keep making statement that ultimately create questions, such as "how can one person be so hopelessly fanboyish?". Seriously. It was a shit part of a shit third act that disappointed most people and so they decided to expand it into a full game and your opinion is that they're acknowledging their failure by making it the entire experience? That says one of two things: they're either incredibly stupid or incredibly arrogant. The player is king.

Originally Posted by Aja

Playing as a big daddy could've been fun if it had been better implemented, and now that your choice is either a (probably difficult) escort mission or extra Adam, the cost for making a morally positive decision will finally be more severe.

Hahahahahahahahahaahahaha the gameplay being shit is not going to make a moral choice more difficult

It was a good idea that was poorly implemented. That doesn't mean they should abandon it -- you know you're doing the exact same thing I'm doing, only at the other end.

I liked the first game so I'm optimistic about the second. That doesn't make me a fanboy, it just makes me a fan. Your "shit gameplay" assessment is premature at best -- the only reason become-a-big-daddy didn't work in the first game was that the experience wasn't comprehensive enough, it wasn't believable. Still a good idea, though, and one that deserves exploration.

On a somewhat side note, am I the only one who finds the idea of making a good moral choice hard through a gameplay mechanic kind of... odd? It seems a little ham-fisted; I mean, shouldn't the point of a moral choice and tough decision come more from the "is this right? am I a horrible person?" rather than "if I do this I get 300 adam less, welp me ;_;"

I can only prematurely project that a game full of it will be full of suck.

And my opinion of the first game is irrelevant however most people, even those who enjoyed BioShock, disliked the Big Daddy segment.

I do agree here. Whether it's stacraft or BS, escort missions always seem like a way for the developers to fill in time before you get to the next good bit.

For me, this gives me the same feeling as if I had just heard that the whole of BS2 was going to be jumping puzzles.
I hope that this turns out to be wrong, but I don't have a lot of confidence in the people who took such a great concept and made it into BS.

And I don't agree with the "taking the worst part of bioshock and make a game of it" argument. It feels more like they're acknowledging that this particular aspect of the original game was flawed, and now they're trying to remedy it.

Call me faithless, but I don't think it's a good idea to base the second game on Big Daddies and little sisters at all. I don't get it - why the concept survived? Yes, those are aspects that make the game easy to remember, and it can even attract teenagers, but that's it. In my opinion it was flawed to even introduce the protector/gatherer concept - it may sound cool but it caused the experience quite surreal and child-story like in my eyes - but maybe that's just the cuteness finish. I understand the original idea was to come with a concept that forces one to manage resources. There are other ways around that though.

No, it was a bad idea. No one likes escort missions. I'd love to hear you clarification of the above quote.

You don't even have to protect them if you don't want. And since there's probably an unlimited supply of little girls, the game won't end if you fail to protect them.

But more importantly, I want to lumber around rapture with a giant drill and charge at splicers and go WAAAAAHHHHHH as big daddies sometimes enjoy doing. Also, since the first game did a poor job of showing us big daddies' true nature, I think focusing an entire game on them will allow for a better backstory to be developed. As it is, big daddies feel more like an idea that was conceived before the rest of the world, a problem Bioshock 2 could possibly remedy with a compelling narrative.