It's a fine line. Last year, they passed a point beyond return pretty early when it was clear they were just going to be horrible, and nothing was going to improve until Jordan was gone. It made me sick, but there was really nothing left to root for but a high pick. This year is a completely different story.

Logically, I understand the logic behind wanting the team to tank, though I think it's completely illogical to still be holding that flame when the team is approaching .500 with 25 games left, but now that the trade deadline has come and gone, people who are still bitching about it just like to hear the sound of their own voice as far as I'm concerned. I can't think of anything more joyless than watching this team right now and muttering under your breath about how they're doing everything the wrong way and they'd be so much better off if they had just sucked all year.

By summer 2012 Iguodala will be 27, Jrue will have played 3 full seasons and Evan Turner will have played 2 full seasons. If they can get rid of Lou, their payroll should be around 38 million. Dwight Howard? :)

I think Ty Lawson is suddenly in the same position Jrue is. Denver is a borderline playoff team with plenty of depth, but without a superstar, just like the Sixers. I'm really looking forward to how they will develop. It will be hilarious if Denver ends up being better than the Knicks when all is said and done. And i suspect that's exactly what will happen.

I'm all for tanking, not because I like watching losing basketball but because I don't see another way of obtaining a superstar. I don't support tanking this year, though, partially because of the quality of the draft and mostly because it's pointless.

I'm enjoying winning, and will the remainder of the year. Next year, if they happen to go 15-67? Doesn't mean I necessarily believe it's the worst thing in the world.

I really like our backcourt rotation, and actually think our p.f. combo can be solid for the next 3 years. We have a top 5 s.f. and a solid bench that can be tweaked with role playing veterans. Resign Thad and Meeks, and hope Turner can become an 18 to 20 ppg. scorer, than our center can be a role playing, defensive big that doesn't have to be a dominant scorer, which shouldn't be as hard to find.

I actually wouldn't mind the old Milwaukee 3 headed monster here, [Mokeski,Lister,Lohaus?] because our coach seems to play the matchup game well. And Hawes, on the cheap, may be one of the 3 off the bench. I want to add to this group rather than take away.

My point (regarding the original theme) has always been it's not about the wins and losses, it's about the player development, and I think Collins is hindering that, and I believe it's going to get worse as this season progresses (hell you two (Derek and Brian) expressed the concern about Jrue Holiday shooting guard last night yourselves)

For me, this team was never anything more (at best) than a first round playoff loss, which wasn't a huge deal to me if the players who matter long term aren't getting the time to develop. Still a concern. I can enjoy the wins and still have problems with what Collins is doing :) All positivity, all 'we're going to get the six seed' and not worrying about the long term health of the franchise is just not something I do, I believe the long term matters.

Maybe long term our coach feels Turner needs the ball in his hands as much as Jrue, and is showing Jrue how to play off the ball now and eventually he teaches Turner the same. For them to work they may have to just be two guards, not a p.g. and s.g..

Turner has court vision and seems to pass a little bit more than Lou, but at this point it still shouldn't be lou (to me) it should be Jrue, succeed or fail, for the long term success of the sixers, just how I see it (and we've had the debate about it already :) )

If you have Jrue, Turner and Iguodala- eventually the guy you want to take the ball away from on offense is Iguodala. Right now Iguodala makes less mistakes because of experience. But when you look at raw talent as a "point" or initiator than Iguodala is third in the ranking.

I just think for those 3 to work, nobody can be pigeonholed into a role. John's point about Lou is valid and hopefully he isn't needed once Evan develops. It seems Lou has been passing more lately. If he got Felton's oppurtunity in New York what do his, and the knicks numbers look like?

So what exactly has happened to Chris Bosh physically? Sure I expected him to fall off statistically on offense. But he looks like a gu who stopped lifting (or something related) and his rebound is horrible.

His Reb rate has dropped from 17.7 to 13.0, and its not like he's suddenly teamed up with another great frontcourt rebounder. Is more standard stats his rebounding has gone from 10.8/g to 8.1/g and his O-boards have dropped by 40%.

My personal opinion is that he used PEDs to bulk up last year, so he could have a career year heading into his walk year, as soon as he got the contract, he stopped and he's gone back to the bean pole he naturally is. This is based on looking at him from one year to the next and the injuries he had last year. Nothing but eyeball evidence on my part, my opinion.

Aside from the lack of proof of the so called 'peds' actually helping...I think Bosh was a good player on a crappy team with no one else to get 'his' the way Bosh could. It was a team that thought defense was the thing tom sawyer painted in that book, and it was a team that CATERED to Bosh. It was all about making Bosh happy so he'd sign the contract extension everyone knew he was never going to sign.

Bosh had a sweetheart position built to make him look better than he is, it's malicious to imply it was steroids or any such thing when there are slightly more obvious explanations.

Is Andrea as good as his numbers? Nope, but someone has to score, someone has to get rebounds in Minnesota but Kevin Love is awesome sauce

I think the way this team is playing with Collins rotations, they can get the six seed.

I don't think getting the six seed makes a difference. Even if the Celtics 'ruined' their team with the trade last night, I don't see the sixers beating any of the division leaders in a 7 game series.

I don't think they can play 'bad' enough to lose the 8 seed either because of the teams behind them playing worse.

I'd rather see less lou (especially in the fourth quarter) and more Jrue (even with mistakes) and the 8 seed then lou domination and the 6 seed because in the end, the outcome is the same, a couple home playoff games (and 4-6 million extra for comcast) but one way maybe Jrue (and Evan) are more advanced for next season.

Nope. That qualifies as on the court stuff. So does Jrue's role/playing time. I'm mostly talking about stuff that's over and done with. That also means letting the Dalembert trade go, which is something I need to work on.

Nothing, he's just the name that's been floating publicly about getting a 10 day contract for a few weeks.

When Battie went down, a flyer on a Barron or a d-league big man for a 10 day contract just made sense, instead, with Speights in the Doughouse we were stuck with watching Darius Songaila flail like a crazy person.

I think there a lot of 'fungible' players - similar pieces that are easily swapped in and out without much difference in them, so why not bring in a guy who doesn't have an attitude history - it's only 10 days - the likelihood is that the impact is minimal.

Terrence Williams is well on his way to talking himself out of the league

How's he playing in the D-League? To answer your question, though, guys only truly get blackballed if they can't play. If they can play, they keep getting chances no matter how disruptive their behavior may be. I'd say the clock is ticking on Cousins, if he keeps producing at these levels, he's not long for the league.

If Morey is making swaps in the hopes of getting the in playoffs this year then Oden is not a good target. Not to mention he's a restricted free agent this off season, and I believe he'll never play 50 games in a season.

Morey's gamble that Thabeet will contribute this year is a folly, the kind of folly you expect from a Billy King or Isiah Thomas, not the great and powerful Morey.

For all the talk Morey gets, Sam Presti is the guy I like, sure he got Kevin Durant and that was a no brainer, but what he pulled off yesterday was quite nice I think. I mean, if Perkins is healthy doesn't that make OKC a contender NOW?

That's fine, two draft busts you believe deserve minutes in a desperate move to get the 8 seed in the west to save his job you think is an A+.

Thabeet is a bust, Thabeet isn't good, Thabeet won't be good, Thabeet doesn't want to be good. He's no longer the #2 pick in the draft, he's played, (sort of) he now is just another tall guy who played basketball who just was never good at it.

eh, i don't know how you think Morey did this with the intent of making the playoffs.... Morey made his moves with the future in mind i think. I'm surprised you don't respect morey who just made a move to focus on his teams future instead of try to make a move for a 1 year rental to get them to the playoffs.

Terrence Williams is great - just ask him - but he couldn't get on the damn court in New Jersey when they were headed for the worst record in NBA history.

Hasheem Thabeet is a giant bust - so instead of enjoying that extra cap space or using Battier in a sign and trade - they just tied the cap spce up with a 7 foot tree (who is less agile) because he was the #2 pick in the draft so some people are silly enough to say 'well he was the #2 pick in the draft so he has potential still'

Daryl Morey got taken by the memphis freaking grizzlies - one of the worst organizations in the game - that's pretty bad.

And he obtained Goran Dragic - oh boy

If the goal is to obtain as many 'sixth men' as possible then Morey is well on his way. If the goal is to compete in the hyper competetive west then - um - no - that's not what happened yesterday.

The Rockets didn't get better, they got worse, short term and long term cause Thabeet is a bust who ties up more cap room than Battier did and that draft pick is going to probably be closer to 20 than the teens in a weak ass draft.

Morey has been praised for obtaining assets, but he hasn't done squat that has impressed me with those assets.

You're giving him an a-plus for obtaining hasheem thabeet and creating playing time for terrence williams? That's your perogative. I don't think either of those things are brilliant, I think they're down right nuts.

I don't give a guy credit for making moves that 'look like' they're for the future if they're bad moves for the future.

Now - and later - Morey made bad moves.

Presti on the other hand (depending on Perkins knee status) made much better moves and has his team positioned long term.

Well you're logic seems to be that since he added players for expiring contracts - no matter how crappy the players are - he must have made the team better.

You're logic indicates that you think Hasheem Thabeet will someday be an NBA player worth a contract above the minimum - which very few if any people think is true any more.

Now, let's look at this the other way.

The Rockets are in desperate need of a big man who doesn't you know SUCK (Thabeet sucks and takes up cap space) and Memphis was going to have some money problems this off season because no one would take the god awful thabeet off their hands.

In rides Darryl Morey giving the Grizz a player that will help them make the playoffs this year (making their pick with less) possibly AND taking that god awful bust off their hands freeing up money to save one of the useful big men free agents this year, to a team in your own division (most people frown on that)

The Houston Rockets made the Memphis Grizzlies better NOW and gave them more fiscal wiggle room in the off season to try and keep their two big men who they like.

Now - it could be a genius move by freeing up that money he thinks memphis will over pay them both and then be on the hook for things but that's a little machiavellian for even me - so what the rockets did is

1. Weaken the grizz 2011 draft pick by giving them a contributing player right now
2. Strengthen the grizz 2011 off season fiscal situation by taking the #2 bust off their hands
3. If the suns trade is the 2011 pick, they also possibly made the suns better, obtained another spectacular bench player and wekaned the suns 2011 pick out of the lottery (of course they're both helped by the jazz's stupendously surprising trade of Deron Williams that might make them worse)

I'm saying that I complete and totally disagree with your evaluation of Morey's moves - and the fact that you think Thabeet's large salary committment next year is worth a pick in the low teens/high 20s in a crap ass draft

Well said Brian! What's the worst thing that could happen by rooting for this team? Some sort of kick-in-the-balls painful first round loss like OKC had last year maybe? Seems like that has them just a little motivated to go for it all this year...so why can't that be the Sixers next year (assuming there is a next year)?

Spencer Hawes is your starting center
Right now your back up center is Darius Songaila
The sixers have no 'defensive specialist' bench players.

I don't get the love for this roster that is playing 500 basketball (for the season, 3-13 counts god damn it) and has no shot of winning in the first round. It's not a 'stand pat' roster - it's a 'we have some good pieces roster but a lot of work to do'

Signing a guy to a 10 day contract might help out the team where it's weak. The ATTEMPT to improve the roster that the sixers haven't done.

Oh - they could take minutes from Hawes (and speights and anyone else) when the sixers are up against a team with a big man of any quality (ala the Memphis game) - the sixers have no defense for teams like that - none

Don't just look at the NBA, look at collegee, look at the AAU evolution. Is basketball as we know it, dying, because of the focus on the individual over team being so strong at almost every level, the dunk being more important than the bounce pass, the blocked shot being more important than proper boxing out position, the aggressive steal being more important than man defense, the highlight being more important than the fundamental.

I mean in terms of quality basketball and evolution of the game at the higher levels. Look at the perceived quality of this draft. Last years draft really on one 'hit' and a bunch of folk people were worried about and had concerns about. Is this trend, or is this cyclical. (Derek knows how to answer this question better than I ever could)

The league is sort of at an inflection point - the lakers/celtics/spurs are aging and teams like Chicago, Miami, and OKC (off the top of my head) are ascendant, and these ascendant teams just feel more 'individual' focused than teams ever have been before, and the college game seems to be getting worse, more about the individual in many places when it wasn't. NOw that just could be the evolution of college sports in general, the win at all cost or get fired sooner than later trickling down from the NBA (and NFL).

Maybe it's just me - probably just me - I mean the ratings are up and the money is up (no matter what stern says) so the NBA must be headed in a good direction right?

I think the NBA's in a terrific place, honestly. And I enjoy the individual game, or as I'd see it, the game of personality - but I don't really think that's what we have. To me, the era when Iverson was in his prime was much more a game of individuals. You had Iverson and his faceless role players, McGrady and a cast of nothings, players like Marbury, Francis, etc. Then after that there were the post-Shaq Lakers, and the Wade Heat and LeBron Cavs, which were some of the most boring teams to watch ever, just 1-on-5 basketball all day long. By contrast, I think the Bulls and Thunder really are teams, and certainly all the contenders are. Especially San Antonio, where it's not at all clear who their best player even is.

A stint in Europe, to practice under their ways, and learn, big or small, the total game seems like a must do for our kids. Childress seems to have regressed since coming back though.

My biggest issue is wanting instant gratification, as far as the star players is concerned. Deron Williams already said we"ll see how we [nets] do this year, on whether he'll stay or not.

Being a Cleveland fan, an Orlando fan now,"is Dwight leaving?", a Denver fan this year, it seems if you watch basketball to be entertained you shouldn't have to worry 2 years down the road if so and so is leaving.

I am enjoying this sixers team because, other than the Thad question, we can just enjoy it.

So am I just nuts when I think things like the AAU touring and the shoe companies being involved - who are concerned more about getting the next 'big guy' to promote their brand than basketball itself - is bad for basketball in terms of learning the game.

I mean you see these guys come into the league who have been playing basketball their whole life - but their shooting mechanics are pathetic, they don't know how to even set a pick, box out for a rebound, I mean just BASIC stuff every basketball player should know how to do.

I'm not even referring to the whole sense of entitlement so many seem to have. The 'I don't have to work to get better than I already am' that you see from guys like Sam, or Cousins attitude, or hell Andre Miller only plays basketball when it's the NBA season. There seems to be a lack of dedication to improvement in a larger majority of players than there used to be. That , combined with the focus on individualism, is why I think you see so many draft busts, guys with the great athleticism but no work ethic, guys who excel against lesser competition (even the best D1 school has at most 3-4 NBA players folks), but when they get to the NBA, they don't excel but they don't work to try and get better either and no one ever taught them about working, the fundamentals, getting better.

This is my concern with Thad, is he really better, has he shown actual improvement in anything over his rookie year, what has he shown development in that is fundamental and demonstrates a dedication to getting better after he gets that contract extension?

I coach youth basketball, and the attention span is lacking in part do to the video game generation. Than in high school and A.A.U. it becomes the have and have nots, as far as playing time and such and the recruiting starts. The best coaching most of these kids could get is in college but how many do 4 years, when the longer they stay the more issues they have, in most N.B.A. G.M.'s minds.

It is a time, in the N.B.A. now, when these coaches have to coach more than ever, getting unpolished players each year and it seems quality N.B.A. coaches are a dying breed.

The college coaches are in a quandry - they gotta win and unelss you're a guy like Krzyzeewski - your job security is tied to winning titles and the way to do that is get the best players which are the one and dones more often than not and you don't have time to coach them before you gotta throw em out on the floor and hope it works - I mean kentucky had how many first round draft picks last year but how many of them are really NBA ready.

I don't buy the 'video game' argument and short attention spans. I really don't. I mean, come on, these kids will sit in front of a video game for hours doing the same thing over and over...(however video games can contribute to the deterioration based on the focus on the highlight dunk etc...as well). Get a kids attention and you'll keep it. I don't think it's a video games fault

Look at the current Sixers. Most of their core players where highly rated AAU players. And there is a range of personalities and grasp of basketball fundamentals. So it is really hard to generalize.

Compare Lou and Jrue. Both had similar H.S. accolades as prolific guards. i don't see either of them as "red flag" personalities, but clearly they have different sets of fundamental strengths and weaknesses in their game. Lou is craftier and more old school in how he draws fouls. While Jrue obviously is more team first in his approach. Both struggle handling picks.

So I think its hard to generalize, when there is so much variation across the league. But I think many of the elite players are as well rounded as in any generation- be that Kobe, Lebron, CP3 or D.Will. Their style and game would have been impressive in any era.

I don't consider Kobe of the same generation as Lebron / CP3 / D-Will. I mean I know they are playing now but I think Kobe's generation is ending as the next one is ascendant - Kobe, Shaq, Iverson (gone now), the big 3 in Boston, that's the 'ending' generation to me

So you think Kobe's generation was less individualistic than the LeBron, Paul, Williams, Howard, Durant, Wade, Rondo, etc. generation of players? I mean, just as an objective way of looking at this, I'm pretty sure that the average assist percentage of today's All-NBA team or All-Star teams is a lot higher than what it was 8 years ago. To say nothing of assist/FGA.

If it isn't already dead, then it is surely dying. The AAU influence cannot be understated enough. The one and done rule is contributing to the deterioration of the college game tremendously also. They have to change that back to entry from high school or like college baseball where if you enroll then you have to stay 3 years then come out. Combine the above and after a kid gets to the league and there's little to no practice time for skill development, fundamental development, and just basketball IQ in general and you have this new age that is occuring today. Watered down team game, individuals *getting me* and sportscenter highlight worthy. The casket shopping has begun.

I think that the NBA wants more years, and I think they'll get 2 years and I think two years is sufficient.

The MLB rule is so silly - they don't hire agents but boras is his 'advisor' which is the same damn thing but it skirts the NCAA rules (which are stupid as hell and NCAA baseball coaches, some of them, KILL pitchers arms)

PS - i was skeptical before because it was a twitter with no indication that the team had been talked to - it now seems to have some sort of 'back up' about it (though they have valid excuses for all the players)?