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I want to believe in God, but I can not ignore the overwhelming evidence that it was contrived and edited by man. I agree with many of the tenants of religion but can not agree with many things in the bible such as; condoning slavery, killing homosexuals, wayward children and those who do not observe the Sabbath. Keeping sex slaves, not being allowed to eat shellfish...etc

This is a cracker jack box reply said by many who ONLY think they know what the Bible is about.
Besides we have the new testament, (new covenant) we are to worry about about.
The old testament is full of fallen sinful men. Kings who let power get to their heads. Idiots who killed pilfered etc.
This is a statement never made by anyone, a believer or not, would say if they had real bible knowledge.
We are all sinners and sinners sin.

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The bible, Koran, and all other religious text are literally stories, parables and interpretations of peoples recollection of their own events, what they believe they saw, and what they think they know. I think most would agree that word for word the bible is not %100 accurate. Heck even scholars, and the church will attest to the fact that many phrases and words have changed slightly when translated over the years yet people who can't fathom the possibility of these words being anything other than divine text will use it word for word when and where it suits them and will then either, dismiss or re-interpret any conflicting or unfavorable text to get a more favorable interpretation which better suits their beliefs. Quite frankly this is how the bible was created in the first place, this is no secret, there were many other testaments, letters etc which did not suit the over all vision of what the church needed the bible to be so they were set aside.

This is the advantage religion has over science. Science is scrutinized so a person can't just have a conclusion they like and then pick the pieces of science that will verify that conclusion. If this were to happen the findings would be rejected by their peers. Yet religion does this exact thing continually and when these teachings are questioned by people, they are considered heathens and accused of heresy.

In terms of reasoning, there is no difference imo between the way a conspiracy theorist thinks and process information and a religious follower. Both will reject all information that throws into doubt what they want to believe, what they need to believe.

In reality, it's this overwhelming desire to believe by religious followers that has become the real challenge suffered by science and those who conclude by a preponderance of the evidence that evolution is more probable than the text of various religions.

Religion is an extreme conflict of interest because it is extremely self serving. Consider for a moment what you would have to accept if you didn't believe. Sadly you would have to face the greater possibility that when you die your consciousness is no more. Everything that made up you is finished. You would have to face the truth that your family and loved ones, once passed are also no more. You would have to face the cold reality that when bad things happens, it's not gods will or attempt to teach you something or to challenge you, it's just circumstances and it is what it is,no more, no less. Imo, it's this bias of wanting to believe which closes minds and ears to everything else and all other possibilities because sadly, given the two alternatives it's understandable why people desperately choose to believe the more comfortable of the two. Really though what harm is there in it, if it helps you sleep at night, if it helps give your life meaning, if it helps with the way you deal with death, life and everything in between than I sincerely wish you all the best and encourage you to follow the path you are on.

To be honest I am often jealous of people who have a strong faith. I often wish I could regain that blind faith I use to have, to not have to think about the reality of our existence, I would love to believe in a story that promises an eternity of being with my family, no pain, bathed in pure happiness for ever but for me that is impossible. To do so would be an injustice to myself, my life, my family and my friends because as far as I can tell this is it. It's during this life that I have the opportunity to love them while I can, because once we're gone all we are is what those of us left behind cares to think of us.

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Well please explain to me the big bang when the universe was supposed to have began all those billions of years ago as there was nothing and then bang the universe is there as I was always told that nothing can start from nothing??????????

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Well please explain to me the big bang when the universe was supposed to have began all those billions of years ago as there was nothing and then bang the universe is there as I was always told that nothing can start from nothing??????????

Tony

Tony this is the type of information processing which makes it impossible to discuss a topic like this. In fact this is the type of information processing which can be viewed every day on tv when ever you see people claiming aliens are real, ufos have visited the earth, big foot exist etc.

The principle of argument for all those people who follow something on faith usually comes down to
"because you can't prove point A then point B is True.
"because you can't prove for certain the cause of the big bang than it has to be God"
"because we don't understand how ancient civilizations moved large stones than they must have had extraterrestrial help"
"because you can't prove a definitive link between species than they must have been created by God"
"because we don't understand the weather, it must be Thor making that noise"

As for the Big Bang, what is there to explain? You know the "theory" as well as the rest of us. But what seems to get passed over is this theory is the best we got with the evidence we have gathered.

When I say evidence I am referring to evidence which has been processed by unbiased individuals and peer checked by others.
Not the type of evidence given by groups who have the answer before the question, who pick the parts that fit into their equation.

I always find it interesting how many people who follow evolution and do not believe in organized religion are in fact very knowledgeable regarding many different faiths. Same as an atheist, people just assume because they do not believe than they know nothing about religion when in fact this is often false. Yet the majority of the time, when a religious person is presented with evidence outside of their beliefs they tend to dismiss, or avoid giving an answer by asking a different question and if you can't answer this deflection question to their satisfaction, they claim this as prof they are right.

Here is an interesting video regarding religion and the way people process their faith.

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I have read the bible many times. I have read both the old and new testaments. I studied religion in college. It was my desire to truly understand that moved me away from belief. The more you know and the more you understand the less likely you are to swallow things.

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Well please explain to me the big bang when the universe was supposed to have began all those billions of years ago as there was nothing and then bang the universe is there as I was always told that nothing can start from nothing??????????

Tony

lol, sorry to post two long videos but I was watching this one and it fit so perfect in regard to the big bang that I just had to post it.

This is a cracker jack box reply said by many who ONLY think they know what the Bible is about.
Besides we have the new testament, (new covenant) we are to worry about about.
The old testament is full of fallen sinful men. Kings who let power get to their heads. Idiots who killed pilfered etc.
This is a statement never made by anyone, a believer or not, would say if they had real bible knowledge.
We are all sinners and sinners sin.

...And which statement do you disagree with? I can cite the verse and chapter if you want.
Are you saying we should ignore the old testament? It is supposedly Gods word, Like the 10 commandments. (also plagerized)
The bible is loaded with nasty stuff like;

Leviticus 25:44-46
New International Version (NIV)
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

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Guys, I started this thread to discuss thoughts on the theory of evolution, not to have it become a debate on the existence of God or religious accuracy. There won't be any winner in this foolishness, neither side will admit they are wrong, so why not let it go? You've all had your say and posted your thoughts, let's get back to politics and how President Obama is destroying our country.

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I don't think you can have a discussion about whether evolution is valid or not without discussing religion. Religion is the whole other side of the discussion.

As for Obama ruining the country, the same has been said of every president since Lincoln by one party or the other. Our government is founded on three equal but separate branches all balancing each other. Obama's influence is but one leg of the tripod. It is not Obama that is ruining our nation, it is the people themselves that are too self involved and self indulgent to bother changing what needs to be changed.

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I don't think you can have a discussion about whether evolution is valid or not without discussing religion. Religion is the whole other side of the discussion.

As for Obama ruining the country, the same has been said of every president since Lincoln by one party or the other. Our government is founded on three equal but separate branches all balancing each other. Obama's influence is but one leg of the tripod. It is not Obama that is ruining our nation, it is the people themselves that are too self involved and self indulgent to bother changing what needs to be changed.

NHM, religion is not the "whole" other side. I have my doubts about evolution and they have nothing to do with religion. There are learned minds of science who dismiss evolution and they don't rely on religion either.
Regarding politics, Obama's one leg of the tripod seems to be enough to prolong our overspending, lack of a balanced budget and inability or unwillingness to move forward to address unemployment. We the people need to be more aware of what our government is doing and more responsible with our own finances. That's just my opinion, what I really think will happen given the growing massive debt, and other problems facing our nation is that we are headed for certain disaster. Have a nice day.

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Well please explain to me the big bang when the universe was supposed to have began all those billions of years ago as there was nothing and then bang the universe is there as I was always told that nothing can start from nothing??????????

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In order to begin to understand the theory you have to get down to the quantum mechanics and in particular, string theory which as of yet is not definitive proof it is nonetheless very close to being proof. The recent discovery or better yet verification of the existence of the Higgs Boson has brought our understanding that much closer. What religion refuses to acknowledge, science continues to uncover.

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In order to begin to understand the theory you have to get down to the quantum mechanics and in particular, string theory which as of yet is not definitive proof it is nonetheless very close to being proof. The recent discovery or better yet verification of the existence of the Higgs Boson has brought our understanding that much closer. What religion refuses to acknowledge, science continues to uncover.

Maybe you missed or chose to ignore my earlier post where I mentioned being taught the smallest particles of matter were the proton, neutron and electron of a molecule, or that the elemental table was the word on matter. I was taught what was know at the time, which was later proved wrong. Here is a link to explain "Higgs Boson", but wheter it remains hypothetical or is proven does not mean science stands still. I still don't understand how it will prove evolution or that religion can be wrong?
NHM I get you learned a lot about religion and a lot about science but that does not mean your conclusions are factually correct. They are fact only in your mind until proven. I know you must be frustrated by people of faith and feel you must prove them wrong but it won't happen here and now.What exactly is the Higgs boson? Have physicists proved that it really exists? : Scientific American