btw It is very unfortunate that the range did not go up to 30Vin-max (The way most MikroTik boxes do). We have several hilltop repeater sites that are solar powered and the charge controllers operate the batteries in the 23-30Vout range for 2x12V lead acid battery systems. I know 15VDC per battery seems high, but that is a level it goes to on a timed cycle once a month for an hour to "equalize" (mix) the electrolyte to perform at peak storage capacity.

A 20-30Vin range on the AF-5X would have let it run without inserting a voltage regulator in between which wastes precious watts and reduces the low voltage to around the 20Vin-min, meaning it can't drive very long Ethernet POE cables.

Best Regards ... Joe

If the communication industry had been built on the backs of yes-men,we would be submitting our forum posts at the telegraph office in town.

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Well, our solar and DC powered sites (virtually all of the sites by this summer) use 12V battery stacks and 24V DC boost converters to get 24V for everything (except the AFs which use 50V converters) and the total losses are under 4% in the conversion. Plus if the converter MOS-FETs short out the voltage drops to 14V from the batteries instead of going up to 28 and blowing up everything. Much safer that way.

Jim

" How can anyone trust Scientists? If new evidence comes along, they change their minds! " Politician's joke (sort of...)"Humans are allergic to change..They love to say, ‘We’ve always done it this way.’ I try to fight that. "Admiral Grace Hopper, USN, Computer Scientist":It's not Rocket Science! - Oh wait, Actually it is... "NASA bumper sticker":The biggest problem in tech I see right now is that most users don't want to do things that are hard. That doesn't bode well for the industry or the society.": (me. actually ;-)

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Well, our solar and DC powered sites (virtually all of the sites by this summer) use 12V battery stacks and 24V DC boost converters to get 24V for everything (except the AFs which use 50V converters) and the total losses are under 4% in the conversion. Plus if the converter MOS-FETs short out the voltage drops to 14V from the batteries instead of going up to 28 and blowing up everything. Much safer that way.

Jim

Sorry Jim, but I don't believe the 4% average number on an up-converter ... Maybe 8% average over the entire 24 hour cycle if you are lucky where you are not pulling the optimum load continuously.

Also 2 x 12V = 24V lead acid systems are a much better overall choice because they have lower current in the wires so less loss there and lower cost for the charge controller (most will double the power capacity with a 24V setup instead of a 12V).

My point was if 30V was the limit, on the AF-5X, it would not be an issue. And Morningstar MPPT controllers are very good at maintaining that 30V limit.

Best Regards ... Joe

If the communication industry had been built on the backs of yes-men,we would be submitting our forum posts at the telegraph office in town.

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi again @UBNT-Ben , Thanks for kicking the guys into action, the info is now in the Datasheets where it is a very handy reference. But new answers bring up questions:

Both the AC and AF devices described here have a minimum voltage of 20V. Does that mean that even if we are willing to reduce the performance of the devices on their Ethernet ports from 1Gpbs to 100Mbps, we cannot use the Ubiquiti "Instant 802.3af (Vout =16V) ??? Sounds like no.

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi again @UBNT-Ben , Thanks for kicking the guys into action, the info is now in the Datasheets where it is a very handy reference. But new answers bring up questions:

Both the AC and AF devices described here have a minimum voltage of 20V. Does that mean that even if we are willing to reduce the performance of the devices on their Ethernet ports from 1Gpbs to 100Mbps, we cannot use the Ubiquiti "Instant 802.3af (Vout =16V) ??? Sounds like no.

So the question is: What does Ubiquiti recommend as the replacement for the INS-8023AF-O ?

Correct. I would not plan on using these with AF or AC products. I would use the injectors that come with the product or look at other switch options. We are always working on new models as well, but nothing that we are ready to release.

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi @UBNT-Ben, I hate to bug you again to ask for an older cage to be rattled.

The voltage requirements they updated above were for AC and AF just like I asked for.

But now something else dawned on me. The non-AC PowerBeams and NanoBeams did not come out too much earlier than the AC versions. One of the things I noticed on my test bench was that a PowerBeamM5-300 used about 30% less power than the NanobridgeM5-22 that it replaced. That's nice.

But you know, that previous generation that included the NanoBridgeM5 was always generally accepted to work on 12-25Volts.

I know, the 2 families, AC and non-AC are different radio chipsets ... But that doesn't say anything about what type of voltage regulator an engineer might use to provide power. Based on those seemingly random thoughts, would it be too much to ask that someone check and add the Vin-min and Vin-max numbers to the non-AC PowerBeams and NanoBeams and update their datasheets as well??? Because those are also the newer XW chipset from the beginning, and it would really be a kick in the pants if their voltage specs also changed from Vin-min = 12V to 20V

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi, i'm new to the forum. I hope I dont ask too many stupid questions.

I had a rocketM5 link whitch was running flawless for years, but I had to upgrade for interferance got worst and throughput got lower. So i went for the rocket ac lite, and I had so much problems with reconnections ad reboots. I then thought it might be an isolated issue with the lite version and after trying to solve it for weeks with ubnt I eventually went ahead and bought the rocket ac air prism units, but still reconnections and reboots are a pain. After the beta 5 firmware upgrade the reboots has almost completely dissapeared, but the reconnections are bad. Sometimes the link would last for a week with no problem, but most of the time I get about 5 reconnections a day sometimes in one hour. I never really thought it was voltage, but after reading this post I thought it might be power related(voltage) whitch brings me to my questions. Could it be because I am using 12V dc on the one site? I read that they rate the supported voltage from 20v to 26v. The other site I have 24V dc with a Morningstar regulator.

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi, i'm new to the forum. I hope I dont ask too many stupid questions.

I had a rocketM5 link whitch was running flawless for years, but I had to upgrade for interferance got worst and throughput got lower. So i went for the rocket ac lite, and I had so much problems with reconnections ad reboots. I then thought it might be an isolated issue with the lite version and after trying to solve it for weeks with ubnt I eventually went ahead and bought the rocket ac air prism units, but still reconnections and reboots are a pain. After the beta 5 firmware upgrade the reboots has almost completely dissapeared, but the reconnections are bad. Sometimes the link would last for a week with no problem, but most of the time I get about 5 reconnections a day sometimes in one hour. I never really thought it was voltage, but after reading this post I thought it might be power related(voltage) whitch brings me to my questions. Could it be because I am using 12V dc on the one site? I read that they rate the supported voltage from 20v to 26v. The other site I have 24V dc with a Morningstar regulator.

Thanks in advance

Johan

It sounds like it could very well be your problem. That's why I am making such a big deal of at least getting this consistently into the data sheets. If you just found it there recently on the AC radios, it is a direct result of my request at the beginning of this thread, so it was only recently updated.

Wouldn't you think that since Ubiquiti is selling more and more into smaller countries, areas where there may be no other electrical power than solar or wind, that Ubiquiti would have realized how important that was to at least document?

Doesn't make sense that such a simple oversight in documentation should be causing your customer's grief, does it @UBNT-Ben ? Just think of how much time it might be wasting your firmware support people and customer satisfaction?

@matrix98053 I believe you can find dc-dc upconverters from companies like Tycon power to take the 12V and go to 24V. But research them carefully. AC radios use Gbps Ethernet ports, and the only way it will negotiate a Gbps connection is if the POE / upconverter design supports it. If its specs do not specifically say it does, I will bet it does not, and only supports up to 100Mbps

Best Regards ... Joe

If the communication industry had been built on the backs of yes-men,we would be submitting our forum posts at the telegraph office in town.

Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi, i'm new to the forum. I hope I dont ask too many stupid questions.

I had a rocketM5 link whitch was running flawless for years, but I had to upgrade for interferance got worst and throughput got lower. So i went for the rocket ac lite, and I had so much problems with reconnections ad reboots. I then thought it might be an isolated issue with the lite version and after trying to solve it for weeks with ubnt I eventually went ahead and bought the rocket ac air prism units, but still reconnections and reboots are a pain. After the beta 5 firmware upgrade the reboots has almost completely dissapeared, but the reconnections are bad. Sometimes the link would last for a week with no problem, but most of the time I get about 5 reconnections a day sometimes in one hour. I never really thought it was voltage, but after reading this post I thought it might be power related(voltage) whitch brings me to my questions. Could it be because I am using 12V dc on the one site? I read that they rate the supported voltage from 20v to 26v. The other site I have 24V dc with a Morningstar regulator.

Thanks in advance

Johan

It sounds like it could very well be your problem. That's why I am making such a big deal of at least getting this consistently into the data sheets. If you just found it there recently on the AC radios, it is a direct result of my request at the beginning of this thread, so it was only recently updated.

Wouldn't you think that since Ubiquiti is selling more and more into smaller countries, areas where there may be no other electrical power than solar or wind, that Ubiquiti would have realized how important that was to at least document?

Doesn't make sense that such a simple oversight in documentation should be causing your customer's grief, does it @UBNT-Ben ? Just think of how much time it might be wasting your firmware support people and customer satisfaction?

@matrix98053 I believe you can find dc-dc upconverters from companies like Tycon power to take the 12V and go to 24V. But research them carefully. AC radios use Gbps Ethernet ports, and the only way it will negotiate a Gbps connection is if the POE / upconverter design supports it. If its specs do not specifically say it does, I will bet it does not, and only supports up to 100Mbps

@Deleted Account is verifying this for you...we will then get into data sheet.

I will just reconfigure the batteries to 24v and then buy a 24v charger.

I will test and give feedback.

I'm with you on the importance to have this documented. I read the voltage requirements from your post.

It took me about two months of suffering to get to your post and realise it could be the 12v causing the poblem.

I have mentioned to ubnt that I had 12v on the one side and 24v on the other, but we had no discussing at all about it, so I just took it as being within specs... My correspondens was with Noel H from ubnt.

I will just reconfigure the batteries to 24v and then buy a 24v charger.

I will test and give feedback.

I'm with you on the importance to have this documented. I read the voltage requirements from your post.

It took me about two months of suffering to get to your post and realise it could be the 12v causing the poblem.

I have mentioned to ubnt that I had 12v on the one side and 24v on the other, but we had no discussing at all about it, so I just took it as being within specs... My correspondens was with Noel H from ubnt.

Thanks

Johan

Beeee Careful! 2 batteries in series can be charged by "24v" charge controller, HOWEVER, 2 fully charged batteries will read about 2 x 13.2V = 26.4V and the charging voltage will be in the 28 volt range!... I fear these might exceed the Vin-max of the "AC" generation radios. Research the specs of each component in your new setup carefully. That's why you might find that a 12 to 24V DC-DC upconverter is safer (although some power gets wasted in the conversion).

Best Regards ... Joe

If the communication industry had been built on the backs of yes-men,we would be submitting our forum posts at the telegraph office in town.

I went ahead and contacted ubnt support again about the voltage requirements for my Rocker AC air prism units.

This is the reply I got :

Noel H.(Ubiquiti Networks)

May 7, 09:58

Hi Johan,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, you can use 12v however the maximum Ethernet cable run would be 30 meters. I suggest to use 24V, 0.5A Gigabit PoE adapter which comes in the box and check if you'll find a performance change.

Awaiting for reply.

Thanks!

Noel H.Ubiquiti Networks

Thanks Johan, . 12V is logical, because internally, it is unlikely any of the board hardware is operating above 5V, and they want a good margin for the board regulator to work with. What is going on with 20-26V seems to be a desire to keep from having to deal with the natural voltage drop of the cable over longer length.

However, what Noel H. told you is that you can operate outside the currently published datasheet specs. This is important because it is the way they have been playing with the number in the past and I don't think a carrier class company should do that.

Hi @UBNT-Ben (and @Deleted Account ?) How about this to make the AC datasheets very consistent, accurate, complete and more useful without adding much text ... Where it now says: