Thursday Night Open Thread

Today is Derek Jeter‘s 40th birthday and that it utterly depressing. Where does the time go? He was getting called up and I was getting ready to start high school just yesterday, it seems. Say what you want about how things are going this season, but these last 20 years watching Jeter have been some kind of ride. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there is a very strong chance he is the greatest Yankee we’ll see in our lifetimes.

Here is your open thread for the off-day. Off-night, really. The Mets are playing and the NBA Draft is taking place (7:30pm ET on ESPN). Talk about that, Jeter’s birthday, or anything else right here. Have at it.

Please feel free to remind people about Jeter more often. It’s pretty sad to hear the constant disdain for him on this site. All he’s done is give it his absolute first ballot Hall of Fame best for 20 years and in return people are fucking GLEEFUL to point out his flaws. It’s a sad commentary on the commenters, I guess.

http://www.staggeringbeauty.com/ ALZ

Don’t think they are gleeful to point out his flaws. They just are willing to accept that maybe he isn’t what he was 20 years ago.

Preston

Many people go far beyond that, and are ready to bench him during his final last season rather than enjoy the last few glimpses they’ll get of him.

Daniel

Yes, that’s right on. It makes me sick and honestly I’d be ashamed if I even let 1% of the talk I hear on here slip out of my mouth. What a joke. I want to win a world series every year, but when it comes down to it my number one baseball priority this year is fully enjoying and appreciating the player that I grew up watching and loving. For once it’s not just about the fans people, get over yourselves.

Grit for Brains

It’s supposed to be a team sport. That said, it’s not about the fans (you and I) or Derek. To say you want to watch the player you grew up loving I think kind of contradicts the way you end your comment. I’d never think that what I want as a fan comes above winning baseball games.

I think some people feel it’s too much about the captain this year and that he could be doing more to step into a supporting cast role on the team. I’m not making it right now, but I definitely understand that argument. That said, nobody else on the team is hitting anyway so who cares if he holds down the 2 hole everyday.

RetroRob

Fans who think a world-class athlete is going to step aside so the likes of Brendan Ryan really haven’t thought it through. That’s the manager’s job. Jeter believes he can still play at a high level, just as he did in 2011 when fans wanted him benched. It’s the manager’s job to sit him. Girardi won’t be playing Ryan either.

Fans are fans and most have very little understanding of the game. They speak from emotion.

There are multiple issues with the team right now, and without Jeter’s final season, this team would be even more painful to watch. If he was blocking some clear prospect I’d want to see that player get more ABs. He’s not. The Yankees have no prospect at SS in the high minors, nor do they have anyone all that good on the team. It’s Jeter to the end.

Deep Thoughts

I think you nailed it when you mentioned 2011. After he bounced back in 2011 and especially 2012 to put up crazy-good numbers following a down season, he bought himself as much leeway as he wants to “get on track” when scuffling. He’s not going anywhere for the final 90 to 110 games. Particularly not when it’s the likes of Carmen Angelini and Cito Culver breathing down his neck.

whozat

Look, I went out to see Jeter at his last game in Oakland because it’s probably the last chance I’ll have to see him play in person, living out here. He couldn’t catch up to fastballs and wasn’t very good in the field. Frankly…it wasn’t that enjoyable, because he’s simply not the same player that he was for most of his wonderful career.

I don’t understand why it’s blasphemy to admit that he’s just not the player he was, and that the current version of Derek Jeter is neither that fun to watch play, nor that good at helping the Yankees win baseball games.

Why, in this particular case, do the feats that he performed in the past mean that I have to enjoy watching a currently-mediocre baseball player and refrain from wanting the team I root for to improve by finding someone to take over some of his playing time?

IamtheWalrus

If it was possible, and somebody offered the chance to see Babe Ruth play in his last season; all fat and old, and grumpy, would you?

Of course you would. And you wouldn’t give two shits about whether or not the Yankees won.

Is the same true for Mantle, Dimaggio, and Berra?

As early as next year, the sting from these losses will have faded out of memory, but Jeter not being there won’t.

It is possible to both want the Yankees to win, AND really soak up Jeter’s last year. Who cares if he isn’t what he was, nobody ever is at 40. But he is Derek Fucking Jeter man. Derek Fucking Jeter.

20 years, one position, one team, and one hell of an unforgiving fanbase. But hey, we are smarter and better than the fans of every other team, right?

IamtheWalrus

Sorry, that wasn’t meant as a direct reply to you.

whozat

It’s possible to WANT that, but in reality it’s not actually possible to GET that with the roster that’s currently constructed. Look, if the team was built such that Jeter could be a part time SS and DH and be one of like…two guys who are middling hitters that get consistent at bats, then OK. But ownership didn’t build that team. They built a team with a number of holes, and people are excluding the possibility of an upgrade at one of those positions for sentimental reasons. Sure, if I could go see Babe Ruth play one game in his last season, I’d want to. But Derek Jeter isn’t playing one game, he’s going to play 150 and be a shadow of the guy he was, the guy that we remember being a model of consistency, game awareness and heads-up play. I can tell you from having just seen him…its actually sad to watch. Not fun or joyous, sad. The game just looks to fast for him.

Preston

Derek Jeter has been the sixth most valuable player on the roster. He’s tied for 17th best hitting SS by wRC+ and his defensive UZR/150 sits at 18th. We could be doing a lot worse. And there really aren’t realistic upgrades. Anyone bitching about Jeter is an uninformed malcontent.

The Great Gonzo

Anyone complaining about Jeter is uninformed and is expecting 2001 Jeter. Good luck with that.

Accept 2014 for what it is, or GTFO out and come back next spring

Deep Thoughts

He swung the bat OK in Seattle, and ran the bases quickly and intelligently. It really varies from day to day. I see some bad takes, and bonehead plays like the ones the other night.

Jalen Rose says about Dwyane Wade, “On some nights, he’s still Flash. On other nights, he’s just ‘Flashes.'” I think that’s where Jete is now as a player, and that’s fine. I just hope he stays healthy and on the field.

Jorge Steinbrenner

They go much further than that. If the decision was made for him to be on the bench, I’d be fine with it.

Some of the comments are downright awful and go beyond that. They want to flush him down the toilet because he’s not what he was once. Classless.

kenneth

the look on Jetes face is priceless…i think that may be how he feels during most of his real interviews. get me out of here.

RetroRob

When I saw the “interview” was about a minute twenty I knew there had to be something up.

http://www.twitter.com/thewallbreakers Scully

I went to a game in 1995 at the Stadium against the Mariners. It was oddly this around this time of year, I remember it because it was also the day of the Puerto Rican Day parade lol. That puts the date at June 10, 1995 – http://www.baseball-reference......6100.shtml.

The Yankees lost 3-2 after scoring 2 runs in the bottom of the 1st off of Randy Johnson of all people. Jeter went 1-3 and I remember his hit being a double that he ripped off of Johnson. I caught a fowl ball too… great day! Became a fan of Jeter that moment.

Refsnyder flat out raking yet again tonight. Dude is a fucking beast. Jose Pirela doing his thing again and Kyle ROller as well.

nycsportzfan

Jake Cave continuing to tear up Tampa. 2more hits tonight. Now hitting 314BA on the Yr.

nycsportzfan

Ian Clarkin line for Charleston so far tonight

6inn 1hit 0er 4bb 7k.. Hell Yeah!

People keep denying this system is crazy deep. Go ahead.

Kentucky Ed

I had made the drive to Lexington to see Charleston a couple of days before so didn’t see Clarkin earlier this month. He put up that kind of line that night, too. Coming along nicely at that level, hopefully will keep it up as he moves thru the system.

Preston

The pitching isn’t that deep though. It’s Severino then Clarkin and then a big drop off. The upper levels are particularly empty.

Not an ace

Bruh Brady Lail is legit af. Long, Camarena, and Davis have done well too. Palladino has major upside.

nycsportzfan

Ty Hensley is still a big deal prospect to follow. We all ready brought up a bunch of pitchers is why. Betances, Warren, Phelps, Nuno, Nova, Robertson, are all home grown. Now were waiting for Hensley, Clarkin, Severino, Lail, Sulbaran,C.Smith, G.Encinas(sleeper), D.Acevedo.etc

Its not completely bare, and we’ve used a ton of our upper level pitching over the yrs. We also added DeCarr, Montgomery, Foley, Lindgren(reliever), in this yrs draft. I’m not saying the pitching is up to snuff as the position players right now, but with how good our position player depth is throughout the system, its nice that our pitching isn’t bare through out.

nycsportzfan

DBJ with another solid game. Putting together a nice season. Be sweet to see him sneak into Trenton before yrs up.

Yankee$

My cousin (son of my first cousin), 12th round pick of Nationals, RHP, just got promoted after two appearances in GCL to NY-Penn League. I’m so excited to be tracking a relative even if a non Yankee Minor Leaguer …

I’m One

Very cool. I always kept an eye on Kevin Russo when he was with the Yankees. He played Little League ball with one of my nephews when they were like 8. My sister kept in touch with his mom even after Kevin’s family moved to Boulder, CO.

Yankee$

Funny you should mention it, I’m moving to Boulder, CO myself in about 6 weeks!

I’m One

Hope you enjoy it. Nice little city based on my few experiences up there. As is the case along most of the Front Range, very pretty area.

Charles R.

Looks like Gary Sanchez hated the benching. Another 2B and 2BB’s so far today.

Yankee$

Then, it worked.

vicki

however long it lasts. three years, is it?

his attitude issues reveal a huge ego, and i say an 80 arrogance tool isn’t all bad.

The Great Gonzo

“i say an 80 arrogance tool isn’t all bad.”

Gary Sheffield, Reggie Jackson & Rickey Henderson agree

RetroRob

I remember when Jeter debuted having the pleasant thought that finally we’ll have a shortstop for the next decade, if we’re lucky a little bit more. Twenty years is an amazing run. But, yeah, seemed to go by way too fast.

We’ll never have anyone at his level ever again at SS, or at least in our lifetimes. That may sound bleak, but it’s reality. He’s ranked consistently in the top ten SS’s ever, and usually in the top five. So expecting a replacement at that level is not realistic.

Yet the question is not replacing Jeter with a Jeter-level player, but replacing him with a SS that can help the team. It was a black hole for quite a while before his arrival. Let’s hope it’s not again. As we’ve seen with Posada, even going out and spending money on a quality catcher may not easily solve the problem. The same will be true at SS.

Deep Thoughts

You beat me to it again. I don’t think a lot of commenters here understand how exceptional it’s been to have bats like Jeter and Posada in the lineup, every day, for so long, given their up-the-middle positions. Slightly less so for Bernie.

Dave M

“Today is Derek Jeter‘s 40th birthday and that it utterly depressing. Where does the time go? He was getting called up and I was getting ready to start high school just yesterday, it seems. ”

Thanks for making me feel really old Mike. I turned 28 in 1996 :-(

RetroRob

You and me are in the same, aging boat!

I’m One

Lucky guys. I turned 37 that year and took my 11 year old son and his friend to a game a year later. Luis Sojo tossed the boys a ball that he and Jeter used in warm-ups and told them “Keep that ball. Derek Jeter used it.” He even knew back then.

Mick Taylor

Joba chamberlain is pitching good for tigers. Any comments from joba haters.

CMed21

Good for him, the best thing for him was to leave the Yankees. Lets face it, he wasn’t a fit to play here in NY and he really lost the confidence of the front office and coaches, it happens. I think just about eeveryone knew he would succeed away from the Yankees, much like Hughes. The pressures of playing with the Yankees is off their backs, so they are more relaxed on their new teams which usually result in better results.

whozat

Well…Phil Hughes is playing in a big park where he no longer has to be afraid of every fly ball. And he’s on a team that emphasizes attacking the strike zone and expects to be able to turn balls in play into outs. So he can just attack, attack, and attack. That would never have worked with the Yankees, given their mediocre infield defense and, until now, outfield defense. It’s not the limelight, it’s that he’s on a team that’s better suited to his skillset.

Captain Turbo

He couldn’t hack New York. It’s no crime cuz a lot of players just can’t.

The Great Gonzo

Good for him. Always had an irrational love for Joba, loved his fire and aggression towards batters (especially Youkilis)…

Wish him all the success in the world against everyone except the Yankees.

Mick Taylor

Maybe jobba just needed to heal his body from the broken ankle and Tommy John surgery and could have been successful again in new york. Or if you areright , is it not the manager’s job to instill confidence in his young players? I think girardi is not so good at that.

CMed21

We gave Joba 7 years to find a role and he couldn’t do it. He was the 7th inning man at the begining of last year and he was so bad he fell behind the depth chart to guys like Claiborne and Kelly and regulated to mop up duty. He wasn’t comfortable here anymore, so the best thing for both sides was to go their seperate ways. I have no reason to believe that Joba would be doing the same here that he is in Detroit.

CMed21

By we I meant the Yankees, bad habit of saying we when not part of franchise…

RetroRob

Joba had a number of good years here in NY, although the last two he was quite bad. Perhaps they were hangover effects from the surgery. The numbers I see from Joba this year fit in comfortably with his career. I suspect having that bigger ballpark helps, but he’s still Joba. 1-3 and blown have of his save chances. : -)

Paisa

If not for Derek Jeter I would never have even picked up a baseball nor met half the people I’ve met in this life. Pretty amazing when you sit back and reflect on that.

I have faith that we’ll see another player of his level on the Yankees at some point in the future but none will be closer to my heart than the greatest shortstop to ever play this game.

whozat

Honus Wagner?

Paisa

Ok fine. But the way I said it sounded more poetic.

Not an ace

Wagner played in the Paleolithic era so he doesn’t count.

RetroRob

They all count.

I’m One

Not if you don’t count them. Or if the didn’t learn to count when they were kids.

Rolling Doughnut

Honus Wagner and Cal Ripken, Jr were arguably better. Wagner hands down and Ripken maybe kinda. Your point is well taken however. Jeter is the best Yankee overall of his generation. It’s sad to see him go out like this. Reminds me of the Mick’s last year.

whozat

This is sorta my point…We can celebrate Jeter without resorting to hyperbole, because he has legitimately been a fantastic baseball player for a really long time. Face of the Yankees, face of baseball for like…15 years. Absolutely true. Hall of Famer? Duh. First ballot, inner-circle, sure. Top 5 SS, yeah that’s possible. Some guys one might put in front of him played a lot of games at other positions. Top 10 Yankee? I’d say so. Top 5? Close…does he top Yogi?

I’m just saying that you can say he’s great and enjoy his career without having to try to claim he was the best of all time, and inviting people to disagree. He was great. He’s up there with the best.

Kosmo

people forget Wagner played multiple positions nearly 1000 games other than SS. Jeter has always played 1 position and about 800 more games at SS than Wagner.
Best all around SS I´ve ever seen was Arod and after him Barry Larkin.

Bronx_Boy

“I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: there is a very strong chance he is the greatest Yankee we’ll see in our lifetimes.”

Yeah, you have said it before, and I said the same thing when Mantle retired, and my Dad said the same thing when Ruth retired, so there you go, great Yankees all, but never the last great Yankee, and your still young enough for the next great Yankee.

I’m One

The comment still stands. Possibly the greatest Yankee many on this site will see in their lifetime. First game I went to was in ’66. Mantle was well past his prime, so I can’t say he was the greatest Yankee I ever saw. Best Yankee I’ve seen play has been Jeter, followed by (arguably) Mattingly (perhaps Mo or Bernie), Munson, etc. We’re among the older group on this site. Many will never see another Yankee as good as Jeter.

RetroRob

Didn’t Tim McCarver retire? Why am I hearing him on TV?

forensic

The baseball version of PTSD?

csonk

This team as Ca$hman constructed is what I thought they’d be. That said, when an all-time great takes the field, a fan should revel in the opportunity to witness the rarity. What he once was or what he is as he winds down, so few have acheived his level of greatness that we are simply blessed to bear witness. This year’s team isn’t very good really & that’s not on Jete’s, this is Ca$hman’s hot mess. If DJ were 28 yrs. old it wouldn’t make a bit of difference on this team so sit back & enjoy, respect, admire & honor a player who defined another great era of Yankee baseball. Thank you Derek Jeter.

OldYanksFan

Can I want Girardi to play Ryan at SS 25% of the time? That’s starting 1 game in 5, and being a LIDR quite a bit.
Can giving Jeter a lighter schedule get him a bit more production?

Jeter IS an all-time great, no doubt… but if we are playing to Win, he certainly isn’t helping the team. My naked eye says he’s hurting us.

All I want is 75%-80% Jeter.
Is that a crime?

Jimmy

Pardon me for making a small point but we learned in Catholic school that 25% means starting 1 game in 4.

I’m One

I’d be fine with Ryan starting 25% of the games. Heck, I might go as far as 33% or 50%. If Jeter’s skills diminish further, the Yankees are contending and Ryan is seen as providing more value than him, even starting Jeter once in each series is acceptable to me. And I’m a huge Jeter fan. However, I’m not sure we’re to the point (yet) where Ryan is enough of an upgrade overall to make that difference.

Mandy Stankiewicz

Ellsbury’ walk on song was Too Shorts ‘Gettin It’ anyone else think that’s a slap in the face?

The Great Gonzo

not following

Mandy Stankiewicz

It’s exactly what it sounds like, a song about making money:
“gettin’ it, gettin’ while the gettin’ is good”