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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Had to rate it "Good" myself, the string of "Great" comes to an end. Mostly because I just didn't care about the salvage crew; found them poorly acted and just pretty uninteresting, I wish we'd spent even more time with scenes like the Doctor and Clara "outside." However, loved the various TARDIS scenes, what little we saw of its infinity. The zombies were... hard to buy into their "creation" but on the other hand the fact of them as the future spilling back in the past was a great reveal and they were certainly disturbing enough. The reset button didn't terribly bother me since the Doctor obviously remembers and I'm certain we'll get a reveal that Clara remembers some of it (like the brothers, but stronger).

sttngfan1701d wrote:

I like that she doesn't listen and I like her suspicion of the Doctor. And I like his fatherly affection toward her.

Actually, of all the "primary companions" I think she's been the one who listens best to the Doctor so far, at least in terms of staying put and not wandering off anyway. And I have a totally different reading of their affection for one another, but that may just be my shipper's heart.

DalekJim wrote:

Also, The Doctor shouldn't have a love story as it's a betrayal of the character.

What nonsense.

I for one hope they go all-in on a romance between Eleven and Clara at some point.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Kestrel wrote:

The zombies were... hard to buy into their "creation" but on the other hand the fact of them as the future spilling back in the past was a great reveal and they were certainly disturbing enough.

I was more bothered by the fact that they were "alive." If the zombies were just Clara and the Brothers after being melted by a frickin' star, why were they still running around? The future can spill into the past all it wants; it shouldn't reanimate a deep-fried corpse.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

DalekJim wrote:

. Also, The Doctor shouldn't have a love story as it's a betrayal of the character.

This is a completely ridiculous statement. How is the Doctor having a "love story" a betrayal of the character? Sure, the original series didn't focus on that sort of thing, but different eras of the show have always had different foci and features. And the concept is not totally alien to the show since The Doctor had a bit of a romance in The Aztecs. And since he has a grand-daughter one should think he had some kind of "love story" in his past.

It seems to me that this line of thinking grows from the same well that had some classic fans insisting for years that Susan wasn't actually The Doctor's granddaughter, despite there being no evidence to say that she was anything except what she claimed to be, claiming some BS about the Doctor being asexual.

__________________
"Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'." - Leonard Nimoy

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

DalekJim wrote:

I doubt I'm alone in being thankful we don't have another annoying mother that hates The Doctor. Also, The Doctor shouldn't have a love story as it's a betrayal of the character.

Oh, I don't need another mother that hates the Doctor. They did that, and they did it well. Why do it again?

And why can't the Doctor fall in love? How did Susan come about... Oh... You don't believe in those... LOOM things, do you?

Besides, the Doctor falling in love, or at least having a more complicated relationship with a companion is more interesting that just paling around the universe again and again and again.

And, no, I'm not suggesting every companion had to fall in love with the Doctor, or vice versa.

The family drama formula was repetetive and a cynical attempt to grab the soap opera audience.

It wasn't cynical. It was about having a new approach to an old show. Something modern audience might be interested in. A modern audience outside of the small fanboy set.

This is a family show, aimed at a large audience.

I like that the show is centred more on exploration than basing itself in modern day London, one of the absolute dullest places in the universe. Clara has been given solid development in her episodes.

Really? For example? What have been her developments since the Bells of St. John?

She's only been in 5 episodes so far so she's not exactly Jaime Lannister level of complex, but as far as Doctor Who companions go there's nothing wrong with her. I don't want 2 episodes exploring her family life and boyfriend.

Again. You miss the point. It doesn't have to be about exploring her family life... It is about her. All she does is sort of twinkle and grin at the Doctor. She's like a female version of David Tennant,

I wanna explore the universe.

Watch a documentary. Some of us are here for the characters.

Do still wish she was Victorian though.

that would be nice, yes.

DalekJim wrote:

Donna was pretty shit and an attempt to dumb the show down but Turn Left was a pretty good episode. Certainly one of RTD's better scripts (Compare it to the following story!). Tate gave a much superior performance to Piper in it.

This is where you lose credibility. After Rose and Martha, we get some one who isn't in love with the Doctor, who calls him on his shit, and actually grows and changes as a character.

And the show didn't get dumbed down. It certainly wasn't any dumber than it was before. And in some ways, I think it was better for having Donna, who in some ways was a more traditional companion.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

DalekJim wrote:

The Doctor shouldn't have a love story as it's a betrayal of the character.

dumbest thing i've read on here for weeks. that's the same as the ''it isn't part of roddenberry's vision" bullshit arguement used to justify moaning about something in star trek. the doctor must've been in love once to get that grandchild.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

sttngfan1701d wrote:

I like that she doesn't listen and I like her suspicion of the Doctor.

Yeah I think that might my favorite aspect of her character right now. She's obviously enchanted by this new world she finds herself in, but the Doctor himself she's not so sure about. And it's not just a superficial kind of doubt like Donna or other companions tend to have early on.

Unlike the others, Clara actually seems to regard him as the strange and mysterious alien he is.

And I know people feel the reset erased all the progress made with her character, but for me, after seeing her go through such a wild, complex range of emotions in this episode, she still comes across in the end feeling MUCH more interesting and complex and sharply defined than before.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Professor Zoom wrote:

DalekJim wrote:

Donna was pretty shit and an attempt to dumb the show down but Turn Left was a pretty good episode. Certainly one of RTD's better scripts (Compare it to the following story!). Tate gave a much superior performance to Piper in it.

This is where you lose credibility. After Rose and Martha, we get some one who isn't in love with the Doctor, who calls him on his shit, and actually grows and changes as a character.

And the show didn't get dumbed down. It certainly wasn't any dumber than it was before. And in some ways, I think it was better for having Donna, who in some ways was a more traditional companion.

It is kind of funny that the one companion since the revival who immediately shot down and didn't even have teases about a romance with the Doctor is "pretty shit."

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

junxon wrote:

DalekJim wrote:

The Doctor shouldn't have a love story as it's a betrayal of the character.

dumbest thing i've read on here for weeks. that's the same as the ''it isn't part of roddenberry's vision" bullshit arguement used to justify moaning about something in star trek. the doctor must've been in love once to get that grandchild.

Probably wasn't in love with a 19 year old thick chav though.

__________________
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Professor Zoom wrote:

It wasn't cynical. It was about having a new approach to an old show. Something modern audience might be interested in. A modern audience outside of the small fanboy set.

It was aimed at a wider range of audiences than ever before. I don't know a single great show that aims at that wide a range of audiences. It made an extremely strong foundation for the re-started biznezz instead of a better show.

You could think RTD just wanted to make a fun show for all that he personally likes too. Or you could think he wanted infinite viewers for more cynical reasons.

It wouldn't seem so shady if not for the aggressive in-show marketing seemingly to use viewers instead of leading them to better things.

Really? For example? What have been her developments since the Bells of St. John?

They give her new things to react to in every episode.

Watch a documentary. Some of us are here for the characters.

Watch a soap opera

And the show didn't get dumbed down. It certainly wasn't any dumber than it was before.

Series 4 was very sloppily made and mostly from meaningless tics at that.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Ghost Bones wrote:

junxon wrote:

DalekJim wrote:

The Doctor shouldn't have a love story as it's a betrayal of the character.

dumbest thing i've read on here for weeks. that's the same as the ''it isn't part of roddenberry's vision" bullshit arguement used to justify moaning about something in star trek. the doctor must've been in love once to get that grandchild.

Sci Fi fans don't want to admit it, but their shows are/can be just as soapy as Dallas or Scandal. Sci Fi fans want to think they are above the fray... But, no. They want their reversals, their surprises, their hot chicks, their twists, the hero with snappy one liners.

When it works, we don't care that it's soap opera, because we are engaged. It's when it feels cheap, then we sneer at something calling it soap opera.

Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

junxon wrote:

Ghost Bones wrote:

junxon wrote:

dumbest thing i've read on here for weeks. that's the same as the ''it isn't part of roddenberry's vision" bullshit arguement used to justify moaning about something in star trek. the doctor must've been in love once to get that grandchild.

Probably wasn't in love with a 19 year old thick chav though.

never said it was. so what's your point?

Sorry, I thought it was obvious. The point is that the character is not devalued by being in love, he's devalued by being in love with some mid-twenties idiots or even any human really. If the Time Lords are all that, they ought to be above romantic inclinations toward thick but blandly attractive women.

__________________
Try not to talk about me, it's only giving me what I want after all, and I do more than enough laughing already.