jp9219

Well back from my Lent banishment from wine.woot.com Somehow, I managed to avoid the site for the last 40 days and now feel like I need to buy some wine...This sounds interesting and I have never had a Cab Franc so it's possible I guess.

richardhod

Moondragon wrote:I'm going to regret not being able to afford this one, methinks. *Winery placed in "To definitely try sometime I have money" file.*

Where do you live, Moondragon? I think there could be some swapping going on for those who want one who want to swap another previous woot wine for it (assuming similar values or a few green bills to make up value)

Moondragon

richardhod wrote:Where do you live, Moondragon? I think there could be some swapping going on for those who want one who want to swap another previous woot wine for it (assuming similar values or a few green bills to make up value)

Currently in Wyoming. That's a good idea, though it'd have to be green bills since I wiped out my last ww bottle (and my other two orders are on their way to my Colorado wootlegger for a who-knows-when pickup).

gcdyersb

clayfu wrote:I'd heard about the winery when I last visited the area but I've been getting varying opinions of them. Nothing bad, just I haven't heard anything exemplary.

Might be worth taking a flyer on at $24.

They're more interesting than life-altering. That their wines are 7 or 8 years past vintage and still very much alive is enough to draw my curiosity. Certainly you can't compare them to a new release from 2006 that's exploding with fruit, but they're at a different point in their evolution. If you want something brooding, embryonic, with overt structure that will tackle your mouth, Bedford is not the answer.

gcdyersb

clayfu wrote:All wine evolves, whether it be your $200 fruit bomb or your $200 bordeaux. Especially when they are young. I'm also not a proponent of matching wine with food so I don't really care what I'm drinking when I'm eating as long as the wine is good.

Sure, they evolve. But high tannins or extreme fruit generally could use some time to mellow from my perspective--or a complementary food match. As far as pairing, there are rules and there are facts. Rules are things like Riesling with Thai food, Pinot with salmon, etc. Well, these are just some commonly held beliefs.

But certain facts are true. Tannins latch onto proteins, so cheese or meat complements a tannic wine by preventing it from mauling your tongue. Acid cuts through fat and cream to cleanse the palate. A young Barolo (or PS), well, that would annihilate your tongue. But cheese and meat will help buffer the face smashing tannins. Another fact: artichoke will make nearly any wine taste like saccharine. Apparently only certain rosés avoid this pitfall.

speedoo

maccallum wrote:The Pinot vineyard is a 2 acre privately owned plot just outside of Dundee, OR. It was planted in the 70's by the owner. We have also bought Pinot elsewhere (In 05 and in 01) but this small vineyard is where we source most of the Pinot we bottle.

Hi, and welcome!

Could you be a little more specific about the location of this vineyard? Is it up in the hills? Is it close to any of the well known vineyards in the area?

txmusicman49

Lab Rat checking in... Received the 2004 Pinot Noir this morning. Will enlist the aide of my fellow Wine.Wooters (and a few holdouts) to help in assessing the juice, probably shortly after lunch, according to the Big Guy. Should be able to deliver a report by mid-afternoon Texas time.

gcdyersb

Yup, that is the case. This sounds like it's on the delicious, ripe cool climate side of Cab Franc. I'd bet it'll be similar to the Bedford Thompson I was plugging earlier given the style of winemaking and terroir, but younger and more exuberant. Probably not very Chinon-like, though, since those are mostly olive, mushroom and black currant (edit: and lots of delicious FUNK) with little new oak influence.

jsronce

Woohoo, I'm a labrat! I just got my bottle of DJ Red. I've invited a couple of friends over for dinner to help me review it. Any advice for the main course? I will also go by the grocery store and ask the wine steward.

jonstrib

maccallum wrote:It depends on which fruit we are talking about. Syrah from Eastern WA is almost always "rehydrated" as most winemakers let it hang until shrivel. Cab and Cab Franc it is a little more unusual to add water but it is the only option that we consider if appropriate. The Pinot is what it is and we do not add anything.

The Pinot was picked close to 26, The Syrah 27 the Cab and Cab Franc in the 26 range. We had lots picked at various levels so the above figures are rough.

Hope that helps.

how does the rehydration of grapes with such high brix compare with picking the grapes at slightly lower brix (say 24) and avoiding rehydration at all? it would seem the rehydration would dilute the impact of the letting the syrah shrivel. without rehydrating it, would there be any/enough juice left: would it be amerone-like? just curious as it's obvious i'm not a scientist...

clayfu

gcdyersb wrote:They're more interesting than life-altering. That their wines are 7 or 8 years past vintage and still very much alive is enough to draw my curiosity. Certainly you can't compare them to a new release from 2006 that's exploding with fruit, but they're at a different point in their evolution. If you want something brooding, embryonic, with overt structure that will tackle your mouth, Bedford is not the answer.

i just want a wine that doesn't suck, I don't care how long they've held it back nor the vineyard. I'm a huge fan of Arcadian that holds their pinot back about 2 years longer than everyone else but they make it work and their wine is built for aging. Not sure why you keep going back to brooding over structure for wines I like.

SonomaBouliste

gcdyersb wrote:Sure, they evolve. But high tannins or extreme fruit generally could use some time to mellow from my perspective--or a complementary food match. As far as pairing, there are rules and there are facts. Rules are things like Riesling with Thai food, Pinot with salmon, etc. Well, these are just some commonly held beliefs.

But certain facts are true. Tannins latch onto proteins, so cheese or meat complements a tannic wine by preventing it from mauling your tongue. Acid cuts through fat and cream to cleanse the palate. A young Barolo (or PS), well, that would annihilate your tongue. But cheese and meat will help buffer the face smashing tannins. Another fact: artichoke will make nearly any wine taste like saccharine. Apparently only certain rosés avoid this pitfall.

You make a good, often overlooked, point that decanting and aerating are not the same as aging.

labROUS

LabROUS disclaimer: I am attempting to make my reviews as descriptive as possible, but non-judgmental. If I have been at all successful in this regard I have given you some idea of what to expect, but have not let my preferences color the reviews.

MacCallum 2005 Cabernet Franc

Medium dark purplish-red color. Ripe boysenberry fruit aromas with notes of licorice, violets and leather. There is some buttery oak and a hint of mint, but none of the herbaceousness that Cab Franc sometimes exhibits. The entry is very full and fleshy with a sweet impression. There are lively berry flavors, a full mid-palate and a bit of chewy tannin. The tannins are fairly soft for a young Cab Franc, only slightly astringent. The finish has nice residual sweet berry and oak flavors along with some alcohol heat. This wine is true-to-typeand a good example of the affinity of Bordeaux varieties for the Yakima Valley. It is a big wine, but enjoyable now; I wouldn't be inclined to cellar it for a long time.

MacCallum 2004 Pinot Noir

Above average depth of youthful color, that is to say the slightest hint of purple but none of the brick colored tones common in Pinot Noir. This is definitely a much riper, bigger style than what we’re used to seeing in most Oregon Pinot Noirs. The aromas are of plum, raspberry and even blackberry fruit with some jammy, caramel-like aspects. There are hints of cinnamon and earthy mushroom, and not too much oak. The wine is full bodied, somewhat high pH/low acid with jammy plum and cherry flavors, still has some astringency and shows noticeable heat on the finish. This style of Pinot should appeal more to those who prefer the big modern Cali style and those who have been dismissive of Pinot as wimpy. There is still a bit of rough tannin that may resolve with additional aging.

(Afternote) When I looked at the labels I was somewhat surprised by the stated alcohol levels; I would have guessed them to be higher, based on body and finish.

bkarney

LabROUS disclaimer: I am attempting to make my reviews as descriptive as possible, but non-judgmental. If I have been at all successful in this regard I have given you some idea of what to expect, but have not let my preferences color the reviews.

MacCallum 2005 Cabernet Franc

Medium dark purplish-red color. Ripe boysenberry fruit aromas with notes of licorice, violets and leather. There is some buttery oak and a hint of mint, but none of the herbaceousness that Cab Franc sometimes exhibits. The entry is very full and fleshy with a sweet impression. There are lively berry flavors, a full mid-palate and a bit of chewy tannin. The tannins are fairly soft for a young Cab Franc, only slightly astringent. The finish has nice residual sweet berry and oak flavors along with some alcohol heat. This wine is true-to-type and a good example of the affinity of Bordeaux varieties for the Yakima Valley. It is a big wine, but enjoyable now; I wouldn't be inclined to cellar it for a long time.

MacCallum 2004 Pinot Noir

Above average depth of youthful color, that is to say the slightest hint of purple but none of the brick colored tones common in Pinot Noir. This is definitely a much riper, bigger style than what we’re used to seeing in most Oregon Pinot Noirs. The aromas are of plum, raspberry and even blackberry fruit with some jammy, caramel-like aspects. There are hints of cinnamon and earthy mushroom, and not too much oak. The wine is full bodied, somewhat high pH/low acid with jammy plum and cherry flavors, still has some astringency and shows noticeable heat on the finish. This style of Pinot should appeal more to those who prefer the big modern Cali style and those who have been dismissive of Pinot as wimpy. There is still a bit of rough tannin that may resolve with additional aging.

(Afternote) When I looked at the labels I was somewhat surprised by the stated alcohol levels; I would have guessed them to be higher, based on body and finish.

maccallum

jonstrib wrote:how does the rehydration of grapes with such high brix compare with picking the grapes at slightly lower brix (say 24) and avoiding rehydration at all? it would seem the rehydration would dilute the impact of the letting the syrah shrivel. without rehydrating it, would there be any/enough juice left: would it be amerone-like? just curious as it's obvious i'm not a scientist...

Really what you are looking for is flavor. The flavors and colors really develop in Syrah late and with the very cool October nights in Washington you can let the fruit hang without it molding or dehydrating too severely. Meanwhile you concentrate the flavors and the color chemicals. Yes you do dilute this affect if you add water to control your alcohol level, but to a very minor degree, and one that you would never notice.

It is an extremely common practice in all warm wine producing regions. I guess it is something that is not commonly spoken of by producers.

maccallum

Woohoo, I'm a labrat! I just got my bottle of DJ Red. I've invited a couple of friends over for dinner to help me review it. Any advice for the main course? I will also go by the grocery store and ask the wine steward.

Not sure what a labrat is, but you have the wine already so it must be GOOD! My wife loves this wine with Thai food. I personally think you need something with some fat in it to appreciate the "hugeness" as my son (the DJ in the label name) would say. What about a peppered flank steak grilled? My favorite.

gcdyersb

clayfu wrote:i just want a wine that doesn't suck, I don't care how long they've held it back nor the vineyard. I'm a huge fan of Arcadian that holds their pinot back about 2 years longer than everyone else but they make it work and their wine is built for aging. Not sure why you keep going back to brooding over structure for wines I like.

Let me lay this one on you. I love Burgundy.

I just have the impression, right or wrong, you and your crowd's general preference is for the sorts of wines Parker would describe as "hedonistic" and "brimming with ____ jam flavors." I wouldn't want to point you towards something less intense, though Bedford's wines are actually fairly jammy and extracted. They just have good acidity which has let them 'dial it down' a bit over time.

txmusicman49

First, let me say that the capsule holding the cork in place must be made of some space age elastomeric material. I had to use an Exacto knife to cut it off. As we were at work, wine tools were few and far between. There was some sediment marking the bottom of the cork in the bottle neck and a small amount of sediment at the top of the neck upon opening.

Since we were at work, there was no food involved, and everyone had already eaten lunch. Several (approximately 6, I think) of us gathered around the open bottle and sampled, using our best available Plastico Reidel (plastic cups, clear but definitely not crystal).

Everyone received a small pour to examine and taste. The immediate response was very telling, and all across the board. Let me just add that none of us are wine snobs / geeks, so what was said probably doesn’t mean a whole lot. However, everyone agreed that this is not your typical Oregon pinot.

The color was definitely darker than Oregon pinot’s that I’ve had in the past. Most everyone involved agreed, although several probably don’t know a pinot noir from a pinot gris. According to those that seemed to know, the taste was not as fruity as the pinot’s that they were familiar with. I agree that this pinot is more earthy than fruity. A couple of the lightweights complained that the astringency was a bit much, although I found this to subside as time passed. I kept a sample in the cup for a good 30 minutes after everyone else had gone back to work and I found that the wine smoothed out over time. I never did get a sense of fruitiness.

Shortly after the taste, I read and passed around Peter’s take on the pinot. Almost everyone said “That’s what I meant, or was trying to say.” The two people in the group who have probably the widest range of wine experience had totally opposite views of the wine – one said it appeared very old and somewhat dry; the other said it appeared very young and alcohol hot. Go figure.

To sum it up, I think it is a nice wine for the price, but certainly not a fruity style Pinot Noir. I would buy it at the price point, but several of my compadres said that they would not. Your mileage may vary.

Not much help I suppose, but it just goes to show that everyone is coming from a different perspective. As I told them, “It’s good enough for the girls I run with.”

clayfu

gcdyersb wrote:I just have the impression, right or wrong, you and your crowd's general preference is for the sorts of wines Parker would describe as "hedonistic" and "brimming with ____ jam flavors." I wouldn't want to point you towards something less intense, though Bedford's wines are actually fairly jammy and extracted. They just have good acidity which has let them 'dial it down' a bit over time.

how did you assume this general preference of my friends or myself? I don't post much about what I drink here.

bahwm

jp9219 wrote:Well back from my Lent banishment from wine.woot.com Somehow, I managed to avoid the site for the last 40 days and now feel like I need to buy some wine...This sounds interesting and I have never had a Cab Franc so it's possible I guess.

Good for you! Welcome back!

May our love be like good wine, grow stronger as it grows older. ~ Old English Toast

Basically, this wine was ready to go from the moment the cork was popped. By the way, the capsule is wax, not foil, which adds a really nice touch letting you know this was made by hand from start to finish.

Context #2: With Burgers, t = 30 minutes

OK, we had leftovers. But they were home-burgers made with love--and rosemary, red pepper, onion and various seasonings. The wine description isn't different other than we've noted more dark berry, maybe black currant, flavor. The floral aromas are primary along with the leather and everything else is really secondary. This is a wine that's nicely balanced and stuffed enough to stand up to and complement a moderately seasoned dish without overpowering everything else on your plate. I would say it's more of a red meat than a chicken wine. Pork should work, too. Vegetarians, well, you're on your own.

Context #3: On its own, t = 50 minutes

The initial observations are still holding true at this point.

My girlfriend commented that the wine melts away on the finish like a fine Belgian chocolate. There's no heat and the tannins are present yet very soft and mouth coating. Nice roundness to the mid-palate. The acidity is well balanced and is just slightly mouth watering.

t = 70 minutes

This wine simply has a great mouth-feel, very smooth and elegant.

t = 150 minutes

Still have a half-glass remaining and the description is essentially constant. It is the same beautiful wine it was initially and isn't falling apart. Not much evolution, but it really didn't need to go anywhere given where it began. I could still smell this wine all day.

My final thoughts are that this wine is a steal at about $20. I'd probably grudgingly pay up to twice this price in a tasting room if I'd really enjoyed the experience at the winery. This Cab Franc has its share of stuffing, though it's more about finesse than power. I was a little worried about the high proportion of new oak, but the oak is seamlessly integrated. So there's no in your face vanilla, woodiness or astringent oak tannin to throw you off. There's only a sense of sweetness that's held in check by the acidity and tannin. I can't really comment on aging--I'd trust the MacCallum folks on that question--but this wine can definitely be consumed now without a long decant.

In relation to other Cab Francs, this has no overt herbaceousness. If you are a hard core Chinon fan and demand rustic edges, damp forests, veggie compost and pure muscle, this probably will not satisfy. This wine is polished, though not without character of its own. As far as Woot Cab Francs I've tasted, it's as good as the Iron Horse in my opinion, but it's a different approach to the varietal. I'd say the Iron Horse is more acidic, is more slanted towards red fruit like raspberries, and has a little more of a forest undertone than the MacCallum. Relative to the Yorkville Cab Franc, I prefer the MacCallum. The Yorkville in comparison is less structured and slightly flabby, albeit earthier in its aromas. Out of the three this wine has the heaviest oak accent. Accent is the right descriptor, though.

Bottom line, if you like Cab Franc and appreciate the diversity of wines it can produce, you're probably already sold. For those new or not yet sold on Cab Franc, this is your gateway wine. It's a Cab Franc that should please more than hard core Cab Franc fanatics (or Cab Francophiles). It really does seem a lot of attention to detail went into producing this wine.

damightyanteater

gcdyersb wrote:If you need a sure blockbuster for a celebration, you go with the expensive wine. But for most purposes--a dinner at home, social drinking--the 'best' wine is not necessarily suited to the context. Certainly I'm rarely having a meal so rich or meat so red that a gigantic Cab is the most logical pairing.

I think horizontally. You can discover wine with geographic and varietal expression for very reasonable prices. I could buy one wine that is excellent. Or I could try several that each have character and are well made for the same cost. There is far more value in diversity, moving horizontally. Moving vertically in price has its merits, but it is more of an indulgence than a learning experience.

Of course there are limits. You won't get much character for $5. 10 $5 wines won't offer much more than a headache and a lucky find or two. A $100 wine will not be twice as good as a $50 wine (unless the $50 was horribly overpriced). So the optimization is really about finding good quality with representative characteristics at mid-price.

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