As an LGBT (Lesbian Trans MTF if it matters) person who has been reading SCPs for a very long time, and has always enjoyed it because it was a completely separate universe from real life. It was a wonderful break from reality that I could lose myself in for hours when things in real life had pushed me to the brink of severe depression. It provided a universe for me to learn about, from, and with. It inspired in me many failed creative writing attempts that I was never, ever comfortable posting because as they say, you are your own worst critic.

It was an escape. But now, there is no escape even in this universe. I am no longer able to believe that the SCP Foundation, or its creators, moderators, etc, are a group that accept you no matter who you are as long as you are interested in writing horror fiction. I, an LGBT person, have been driven from this site by its othering of me.

"But BackPal," you may be saying, "We are an explicitly inclusive community! We love LGBT people and want them here and encourage them to write for us!" This may be true, but if you have to specify the people, you are othering them. Othering me. I am not separate from straight writers. I am not separate from cis-gender writers. I am not separate from straight or cis-gender readers. I want to be treated like those people, not better, not worse. I want to be the same, because I am not a trans writer. I am not a lesbian writer. I am not a lesbian or trans reader. I am just a reader, I am just a writer.

Maybe some day, when the SCP wiki has become more tolerant of people, I will return, but in the mean time, as long as people who cannot comprehend jokes are the people who get to decide policy on this site, I will never feel welcome as an LGBT person who wishes only to be treated the same as non-LGBT people. Thank you in advance for reading this post, and I apologize if what I have said upsets anyone. Please, everyone who does still enjoy the SCP wiki, do not stop doing so on my account.

I, an LGBT person, have been driven from this site by its othering of me.

I'm sorry to hear that! I hope that whatever communities you become part of in the future make you feel more comfortable being whoever it is you wish to be.

But BackPal," you may be saying, "We are an explicitly inclusive community! We love LGBT people and want them here and encourage them to write for us!" This may be true, but if you have to specify the people, you are othering them. Othering me.

While I appreciate your desire to be treated the same way as anyone else (it's a desire I myself share!), this is a deeply unfair characterization of what inclusivity means. I appreciate that, for you, messages of inclusivity targeting queer people makes you feel other'd; that being said, messages of inclusivity do not make all LGBTQ+ people feel this way, and treating it like as an absolute for every LGBTQ+ person on the planet is kind of disrespectful :/

That being said, I don't think the way this makes you feel is invalid. I just think you probably shouldn't say it's like that for all of us. Plenty of us don't feel that way, after all — and I don't think we're "wrong" to feel good about inclusivity anymore than you are to feel bad about it!

I might leave too, at least until pride month ends. I'm gay and this ceaseless celebration of LGBT identity irks me greatly. While it's entirely true that there is homophobia and/or transphobia to a greater or lesser degree in pretty much any large community, this whole pride and celebrating LGBT people like we're so special and great is not the right course of action in my opinion. It's just gonna make people resent and even hate us, even if they weren't homophobic before. What I think we should be working towards is helping society see that being LGBT is a normal and neutral thing that neither elevates or dehumanizes us. Like being left-handed. And if you guys insist on celebrating something, celebrate the strides society as a whole has taken to reduce homophobia, and that is something all can celebrate regardless of orientation or identity.

So keep waving your rainbow flags or whatever, I'll just head out the door.

Only thing is I wanna stay in this community cause I haven't contributed anything so far and I want to put my ideas out to the public somewhere.

EDIT: Wanted this to be on the main thread, not a reply to OP. Still confused by this site's format.

And if you guys insist on celebrating something, celebrate the strides society as a whole has taken to reduce homophobia, and that is something all can celebrate regardless of orientation or identity.

That's more or less what the flag is meant to celebrate. The flag isn't about elevating LGBTQ+ experiences above everyone else's; it's about normalizing those experiences — presenting them as healthy and (in many ways!) wholly unremarkable aspects of our daily lives. It accomplishes this by increasing visibility — although I can see why some of us would rather not have those issues brought into the spotlight. I can also see why some of us might feel as if the flag objectifies us or flattens our experiences into a 'political issue'; I disagree, but I can understand (and even respect!) where that point of view is coming from.

It's fine to take issue with the logo; it's fine to express your issues clearly and politely like you've done here. Inclusivity, after all, doesn't mean just including those voices you entirely agree with. But just as I can understand why the logo might upset you, try to understand why the logo is important to someone like me: It tells me that this is a community I can trust not to doxx me or threaten me with violence over something as unremarkable and trivial as who I love or which gender I identify as.

The lifeblood of collaborative writing is compromise. I'm certain that, given the opportunity and sufficient good faith, people like us can find ways to co-exist in the same space. I hope that you end up staying and contributing — the more strong, clear voices a community has, the better (regardless of whether or not they're LGBTQ+!).

We have gained unprecedented amount of support in a very short time and from what I've seen in my small part of America, homophobic views are gradually being relegated to the fringes and no longer appear to be the status quo. So it just seems to me that we're past the point where we need to increase our visibility and do pride stuff, and the fact that we're still doing it is just beating a dead horse.

I mean, I am definitely very glad to hear that you've had positive experiences in your community! But, trust me — there are still plenty of LGBTQ+ people experiencing issues like violence, teenage abandonment, and more. I mean, just as one example, conversion therapy targeting minors is still legal in the majority of the US! And I've also encountered my fair share of internet communities with extremely toxic attitudes toward the existence of things like transgender people (up to and including doxxing and death-threats!).

I'm not trying to diminish your positive experiences, and it is heartening to know that there are places where you can just be who you are and not have to worry about how people will treat you for something that really shouldn't matter. But keep in mind, those positive experiences are yours; plenty of us have had much more negative experiences. This even includes violence targeting ourselves and/or those we care about!

So, while I'm glad to hear that you're in a place where increased visibility isn't much of a priority, there are definitely places where it's still important, and we still have farther to go.

Whoa, whoa — relax! I mean, I'm glad you're seeing my point? But you don't have to feel like shit about it! It's fine; it's not like I expect everyone everywhere to know about everything going on at once. xD

Like I said, I'm glad you have had positive experiences — and I think you should be glad too! Having positive experiences is A++. You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty over.

Just, sometimes when things go well for us, we can forget that they aren't going well for other people. And that's fine, so long as we're willing to listen when they try to remind us (and it sounds like you are!).

The SCP website. Stop for a minute, think about the SCP website. Think about what it is.
Now, the SCP website…
is currently at a point where LGBT people feel uncomfortable about it because in part they're LGBT.
Forget the reason for it. The fact that this is happening at all, like, what?
It's a site where people sit down and, straight-faced, write for hours about sentient radioactive refrigerators and superscientists' efforts to study them and their behaviors in ruthlessly secret underground bunkers whilst said refrigerators plot the downfall of the Bosnian government and subsequent uplifting of its people's syndicalist sympathies.
And its logo is currently a pride flag.
And some LGBT people are upset by its current state because of LGBT reasons.
Can I ask everyone to just, think about that? Am I the only one who finds this weird? Out of place? Anything?

If it matters to you, this account isn't very old, but I've been tracking the Foundation on and off for years. I might try to write for the site someday. I just hope the Foundation tone is still as strong as it's always been by the time I finally get to it.

Imagine having a phrase that you must repeat, uncontrollably, after absolutely everything you say.

Well… I was originally going to talk about how when we say that we include LGBT people we do it because in a lot of places they are specifically excluded, not because we don't include other people, but that does count as othering them, I guess.

I'm always sorry to see a longtime user go, but I can respect your decision.

Im a bi lurker, but who cares about that? I've been lurking on this site for so long that I cant remember on this site. All this just seems silly to me. Im just a lurker, maybe when I'm bored I'm a writer, etc, but I don't need an identifier.
I don't really care if you want to say you're a trans or gay or etc whatever, but that shouldn't affect how you act towards other people or how you write. Also, whats all this about shutting down any discussion or opinions that aren't completely supportive of whatever this site has become (frankly in my opinion, a cesspool) full almost orwellian striking down people for wrongthink or even slightly expressing the fact that they don't care for X and would rather have Y, or thinks the entire discussion about X and Y is stupid, or thinks whatever else they want.
In short, stop throwing accusations of homophobe and racist at people for thinking different, we need to stop firing off warnings at people for opinions, and stop smooshing people (or threatening to smoosh) people with the banhammer for their misinterpreted opinion, etc.

I don't really care if you want to say you're a trans or gay or etc whatever, but that shouldn't affect how you act towards other people or how you write.

I mean, I agree with the first part (that being LGBTQ+ shouldn't affect how you act toward others), but the second part (that it shouldn't affect how you write) sounds like you don't think queer people should ever write about their queer experiences? Which is a very strange position to take.

I don't think LGBTQ+ people are required to write fiction about LGBTQ+ experiences; if you're gay but don't want your stories to have anything to do with that, that's perfectly fine. More than fine! More power to you!

But to say that you shouldn't write any stories that have anything to do with your experiences of being gay is incredibly limiting and unfair. It's like saying a straight person shouldn't write any stories about their experiences with being straight. I mean, it's my choice, right? I should get to decide precisely how much (or how little!) me being queer affects my stories.

Also, whats all this about shutting down any discussion or opinions that aren't completely supportive of whatever this site has become (frankly in my opinion, a cesspool)

I mean, I respect your opinion, but if you think this place is a cesspool, then what is it precisely that you're hoping to accomplish, here?

I've been looking for an opportunity to speak about something close to you and I was snooping threads looking for a safe spot and here I find you so I guess replying to your comment is a good a place as any.

With all the recent drama surrounding your article SCP-2721 I decided to take a read because I was interested in counteracting the brigade, seeing as not only do I think it's unfair, but I am a trans lesbian myself. I was ready to sit down and enjoy a good article, but what I found was very displeasing.

Literarily, it's a pretty great work. Writing is wonderful and it has half a good premise. The issue comes in to play in the problematic characterization of the character everyone else is losing thier minds over. When I read it it sounded like it was written by all but the most backward right winged stereotyper I'd ever seen. A trans person who likes tumblr and homestuck? And it's not just the superfiical descriptor, the way they speak is atrociously stereotypical, straight out of a transphobic helicopter meme. The kind of people who are the ones 4chan wants to make fun of. Might as well have made it an African American person who enjoys rap music and eating fried chicken.

Then it occurred to me that this may have been from your own experience. This made me wonder: did you write a trans stereotype so blatant from your concept of other trans people or did you self insert so hard that you became borderline transphobic? This is not how I look for representation.

I'm sorry if this came across as rude but I really had to get it off my chest. May I reiterate that the writing is very good and I enjoyed the idea, but just like Detroit: Become Human, the flashy visuals and good individuals are seeded within problematic themes.

Might as well have made it an African American person who enjoys rap music and eating fried chicken.

But there are African American people who enjoy rap music and eat fried chicken. And it feels really strange to say that African American writers can't write about African American characters who enjoy rap music and/or eat fried chicken.

This made me wonder: did you write a trans stereotype so blatant from your concept of other trans people or did you self insert so hard that you became borderline transphobic? This is not how I look for representation.

I'm in no position to disassemble the themes of the article for possible iterations of transphobia; maybe there are issues there? Someone else would have to have that conversation (probably the author, or other people who have more experience with transgender issues than I do). Maybe you have some genuine credible gripes, here. I don't honestly know.

But I do know that it is a deeply unfair burden to put the weight of representation for an entire group on the shoulders of one person who wrote one story. We write the stories we write from the places where we come; those stories reflect our experiences — no one else's.

Also: The people projecting these stereotypes onto members of the LGBTQ+ community shouldn't get to dictate the terms of how we or the characters we create behave. Just because some racist jerk arbitrarily decided that all African Americans love chicken doesn't mean that all African Americans must now refrain from eating chicken. It also doesn't mean they must not write African American characters who love chicken. All that does is give the racist jerk power over you; it lets them define who you are.

That's very true, but it still feels largely harmful when I read it. I can't feel uninsulted from it when I read it. Also present is the nonsuperficial issues: the manner of speech is the seal on the envelope that whoever wrote this either portrayed a walking stereotype in the character or is a walking stereotype who posted a subficial self insert, both of which are not the end of the world but are minorly annoying when I read it. As I said, I read it wanting to help prevent the brigade by upvoting, but after feeling negatively effected by the harmful portrayal of the character, however well written, I left it downvoted. No post deserves what happened there but I felt that perhaps the brigaders had a minor point when they saw "Generic Tumblr User 2978" that I could have seen on any TiA post rather than a real trans person who lives and breathes things other than the average.

I don't think it's unfair to dislike the article for whatever reason (I mean, whatever reason outside of "transgender characters are icky", obviously), so if your reasoning amounts to "as a transgender person I found it insulting", I mean — that's your call and I don't think anyone's in a position to tell you that you're wrong.

the manner of speech is the seal on the envelope that whoever wrote this either portrayed a walking stereotype in the character or is a walking stereotype who posted a subficial self insert, both of which are not the end of the world but are minorly annoying when I read it.

Keep in mind, I'm not as knowledgeable about transgender issues as I'd like to be, but it feels very strange to talk about a manner of speech that is 'stereotypically' transgender, or 'mockingly' transgender?

Like, I'm very familiar with things like the 'gay lisp' or stereotypes regarding gay men — and I'll point out that gay men creating characters who play into those stereotypes is typically fine. But stereotypical transgender speech? Is there genuinely some transgender woman equivalent to the 'gay man lisp' or 'catty gay man' trope?

Are we talking about transgender stereotypes, or just stereotypes about deeply entrenched fandom (like Homestuck)? Because I am familiar with those stereotypes, and I can see how this plays into that — but those aren't stereotypes I've ever heard being associated with transgender people.

idk… sometimes there just like… a way of tlaking on tumblr??? its a combination of… i guess like, idk just the way im speaking now i guess… just make sure not to use capitals, and sometimes come back in with peppy enthusiam! evry once in a while i make a spelling mistake but its cool. then ill borderline crytye when im want to act fucking angry o sad!!!

Just very steeped in characterization I guess? It's always been very overthinking but I really still feel this is a very tropy character if not borderline stereotyped.

There's people I talk to online who have a similar pattern who definitely are not transgender; heck, depending on how tired I am, I'll start typing like that (on IRC I'm known for typing with no shift-key and only occasionally bothering with punctuation; I even do the thing where I make statements into questions and throw in tons of ellipsis. I think the only thing I don't do is make spelling errors or use multiple exclamation/question marks in a row).

Again, I might just be spectacularly ignorant on this subject — so pardon me if I'm wrong! But I think that's more an internet/tumblr trope than a transgender trope?

For me, personally — it's definitely a way of speaking that I strongly associate with Homestuck (and Homestuck fans), not transgender people.

My impression of the article was that LYRE was essentially "imprinting" on a certain type of internet culture. She's actually more like trans-species (wanting to be human instead of an alien flesh-blob bioweapon) and latched on to Homestuck and the transgender community as expressions of that desire.

I've been deeply embedded in Tumblr in the past and also am transgender myself, and I think the point was that she's adopting a community and in the process its most visible characteristics and quirks. That's what a lot of us do & did, to try to feel like we belong. Like, I get your point, but I also think the pathos behind the choice is genuine and not meant to be superficial or demeaning.

as long as people who cannot comprehend jokes are the people who get to decide policy on this site,

I am forum crit junior staff, and three years ago I wasn't even that. While I do definitely sometimes not comprehend jokes, I also don't actually decide policy. However, I do apologize if me not liking that joke made you feel unwelcome. As far as I am concerned you are just a writer.

I don't want to invalidate your experience, but I do wonder if maybe me not liking that joke (which wasn't even directly related to LGBT identity) is an expected part of this site and a strange reason to leave. Not everyone is going to always like everything.

From my experience, most of the "We love LGBT writers and want more!" sentiment comes from two people.

1. Other LGBT folks who are glad to see more people from a shared background.

2. Folks who were around in the bad old days who are relieved to see that the hostile attitude on the site has relaxed from the time when LGBT folks got harassed off the site from the moment they joined up.

In the first case, it's hard to see how that's "othering," more of a "hey, you came from the same hometown as me!" type thing where someone is trying to bond over a shared experience.

In the second case, it could be seen as "othering," and for that I would apologize. I'd just say that the intention is not to make anyone feel unsafe or like an outsider, more of a sigh of relief that the site is no longer the type of place where someone can chase down a guy on Second Life and doxx them for something that seemed unforgiveable to you ten years ago, but these days just kind of feels pointless to hate someone about.

Either way, sorry to hear that you don't feel safe here any more. We'll keep working on it.

It is not that I do not feel safe. This is the internet, and you cannot do anything to hurt me short of coming to the place I live (which literally no one but myself knows because I've moved multiple times since I last updated any documents on the net), it is that I am no longer able to enjoy the community because of how coddling and focused on identity it has become. Every single time I am here, I see the LGBT flag up there, and I am reminded that I am not who I want to be. It makes it impossible to become immersed anymore, and the knowledge of what has gone on in the last few days is in my mind forever.

I appreciate your concern, Clef, I really, honestly do. It is touching that someone as important as you cares about me at all. But… I, and I know many others like myself, cannot be myself here because I am always reminded of the things I don't want/have no control over being. Thank you once more for your kind words, and I do hope that the Wiki can one day recover from all of this.

As another LGBT+ person, I too strongly aggree that everyone should be treated as equally. Which means, be treated exactly as any other readers or writers. Being treated in this way can make me most comfortable, but I cannot represent other people’s attitude. There are many people I know, who lay a great emphasize on their LGBT+ identity, and I respect them, since the LGBT+ people are not very welcomed in my country and they really need a lot of support.

I am not feeling uncomfortable in this community, though. (Sometimes I am reminded of my miserable life, but I know that people do not intend to do that, so I am compeletly okay) Although I personally think changing the logo is unnecessary, I would take it as a kind of support, not some form of separation.

I don’t know if this helps, but I want to let you know that you are not the only one who desires to be treated exactly the same. I am sorry that you don't feel comfortable here.. but I hope you can trust other people in this community that they only want the best for everyone.

Just, in reply to OP and other LGBT+ folks agreeing with OP, I want to say I know I've personally contributed to some of the cited problems and I apologize. I'm trying to do better every day. Hopefully, staff feels the same way re: improvement and hopefully sometime soon y'all will feel comfortable coming back.We'll keep the lights on, so to speak.

I certainly understand where you're coming from. I'm bisexual myself, and personally I enjoy the celebration of inclusivity, but I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone but myself and my opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's. I'm sad that the only way for you to keep yourself happy is to leave, and I hope eventually you feel welcome again and come back. Do what you need to do.

I felt this way in times past. The more I experienced, the more I learned that at least part of the social discomfort I felt was from much of my life taking place in rooms full of straight men and women. At the risk of sounding -ist, all of my closest friends are straight people, and they're very lovely in their treatment of me. This feeling of "otherness" came simply from looking around and seeing people who I knew were not like me. It was no one's fault, but it took me years to realize that I have a positive visceral reaction whenever I see someone identify as LGBT+, I inherently feel a little safer. While I don't necessarily like the change in the logo, I can definitely appreciate the "sameness" that came as a result of its inclusion. Seeing a bunch of people in the LGBT+ sandwich come out of the woodwork and say "I identify as this" and "I identify as that" makes me feel a little more welcome.

I say this not to invalidate your feelings, but to provide an alternate perspective. Also, full disclosure, it may be the wine talking.

You are letting internet Drama get to you. It safe to say almost nobody cares whether your gay or straight. This will only be an issue if you insist on making it one. Grow some thicker skin and move on. There is nothing perfect about the Internet, let alone internet communities.

Nowadays the obviously bigoted stuff gets deleted, so you'll miss it if you aren't paying attention but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The subtly bigoted stuff is still occasionally around. I gather that in the bad old days straight up bigotry of all kinds was common too.

I honestly just haven't seen anything to indicate people on this site wanted to treat LGBT differently. Not until recently at least.

But I am sure the more undeserved attention we give to this ridiculous drama the more likely it is to stay. People login here to talk about creepy statues and scifi stories not gay rights. If even a miniscole amount of the people cared if an author of a story is gay or straight I'd be very surprised.

We should all just move on. The entire topic is not worth getting riled up about.