meanmutton:Unoriginal_Username: Infernalist: EatHam: AdolfOliverPanties: They have shiat for natural resources.

Really?

To be fair, those RREs are way way way out of reach right now. NK mines only operate at about 30% capacity out of safety concerns. They're obscenely outdated and in need of serious repair. To get at those RREs in any real capacity would take a massive overhaul of existing infrastructure and modernization of their mining equipment.

A serious serious investment that would only pay off in a decade or so, if that.

So the next war will be over rocks instead of oil.

/I guess this is the logical option. First it was religion, now it's resources.

If it's resources, why did we forget to loot Iraq for oil before we left?

Phil Carrol was the Oil Czar assigned by Bush to privatize Iraqi oil. He did an end-around on Bush Co and helped Iraq nationalise their oil instead.

Bush Co had to settle for US treaure blown on building Iraqi infrastructure crony capitalism projects. Money well spent, eh?

JustGetItRight:Oh, and the 'their artillery would level Seoul' rumor's been debunked repeatedly in every NK thread over the last few years. Most of their tubes don't have the range to hit anything other than the suburbs and those that do won't fire nearly enough rounds to do massive damage before being destroyed by US/RoK air strikes.

It never ceases to amaze me that that is the ONE bit of NK propaganda that a majority of westerners seem to believe without question. People just seem to vastly overestimate NK's artillery capabilities.

HMS_Blinkin:It never ceases to amaze me that that is the ONE bit of NK propaganda that a majority of westerners seem to believe without question. People just seem to vastly overestimate NK's artillery capabilities.

Don't stop them. It's amusing to watch people piss their pants over these people, just like it is when they make comparisons between the Pax Communista philosophies that drove the 1950s geopolitics and today.

They also seem to vastly underestimate both the US and South Korean ability to counter-battery.

one-in-the-chamber:I have a question which has nothing to do with the thread. how many people visit the comment section of fark with absolutely nothing witty or thought provoking. but feel like they contribute, and can feel superior by grammer checking people? "hey dumba** you meant " too" as in also, not to as in "to" as in a destination". this also goes for the people who insist on proving to the world they graduated from college. six paragraphs on string theory when nobody asked. it's not going to make cutting that check for the student loan anymore worthwhile

hubiestubert:I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Errr...... ummmmmmmm..... That's generally not the end result for 3rd world genocidal dictators who start wars.

In other news, even some original spellings of the words that rhyme with 'wurst host' get filtered :p

I'm sorry, I just had to check out your profile, figuring you'd have only been a member for a few months; a year tops. <b>YOU'VE BEEN HERE NINE YEARS</b>, and it took you this long to find the shplurst shplost filter?! That's... that's just... outstanding!

/sigh, I remember my first blurbst blosht.

Oh, man, you have no idea. I knew about the 1st cereal maker filter in some ways, but I didn't realize that spelling it:

'a-a-a-a-a a-a-a-a' would trigger the filter or 'aaaaaaaaa'. Hence the unintentional hilarity.

Do you know what a Reg-Ex is?

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know better. Worse, I've been around long enough to DAMN WELL know better. Oh well. At least you got a good laugh at my expense.

In other news, even some original spellings of the words that rhyme with 'wurst host' get filtered :p

I'm sorry, I just had to check out your profile, figuring you'd have only been a member for a few months; a year tops. <b>YOU'VE BEEN HERE NINE YEARS</b>, and it took you this long to find the shplurst shplost filter?! That's... that's just... outstanding!

/sigh, I remember my first blurbst blosht.

Oh, man, you have no idea. I knew about the 1st cereal maker filter in some ways, but I didn't realize that spelling it:

'a-a-a-a-a a-a-a-a' would trigger the filter or 'aaaaaaaaa'. Hence the unintentional hilarity.

Do you know what a Reg-Ex is?

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know better. Worse, I've been around long enough to DAMN WELL know better. Oh well. At least you got a good laugh at my expense.

Well, there was a chance you didn't know (or more likely `hadn't thought about how the filter probably worked, and I nudged you in that direction) but I doubted it since you had a fair idea of the value of engineers over IP.

torusXL:Loose_Cannon: If there isn't a small group of resisters to the madness of North Korea, then they don't deserve to survive.God help me, but I just don't believe the destruction of NK, and all it's people, would be a bad idea.Many are praying for death, and those who aren't deserve it.

You should be ashamed at your mind-bending arrogance.Have you ever been tortured by years of no food? Not just years, but even your parent's generation dealing with starvation? Had your mind warped by propaganda from the day you were born? If so, I don't think you'd be nearly as tough as you pretend.

What if in the future, it becomes a fact that 1st World industries have obliterated the environment past no return, and people living in the dominant country call for the destruction of yours with no mercy because "God help me, since there wasn't a small group of resisters to the madness of the 21st century, they all deserve to die."?

See, that's the POINT! I wouldn't wish that on my children's children!

Have *YOU* lived under torture for years and years?? Would you want your grandchildren living like that?

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Errr...... ummmmmmmm..... That's generally not the end result for 3rd world genocidal dictators who start wars.

AdolfOliverPanties:I plan on moving to Hawaii in a few years. I personally give my blessing to wipe NK off the map if it's continued existence would screw up my new home.

I'm constantly amazed at the sociopathic self-centeredness of Fark's lefties. So you would trade the lives of 20+ million people for a nice pad in Hawaii?

AdolfOliverPanties:hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Not a bad result for the little prick, if it works out exactly as he hopes. It won't though. Being rebuilt by the west is one thing, but that country is a barren wasteland, and not because of the Kim Jong family. They can't grow anything. They can't produce anything but weapons. Sadly, they are very good at that. We can't go in and rebuild and turn them into a thriving economy based on agriculture or business. They have shiat for natural resources.

Rembrant_Q_Einstein:LoneCoon: You know, the third week of April is the worst week on the calender. Hitler's birthday, Columbine, WTC bombing, Oklahoma City, BP oil spill started, Waco. Now we're looking at a full scale war by then. Makes me want to hide the whole week.

You never heard of the Ides of March.? You are supposed to beware them.

UnspokenVoice:dk47: fireclown: netweavr: Japan is forbidden from doing shiat without getting permission from the US. Guess what the US gave them today...

I was of the belief that anti-missile stuff was within the purview of the Japanese Defense Force. If not, the damned well should be. At any rate, I hope they keep their shiat together and don't do anything hasty. Just shoot the damned thing down and show Kim what's what.

Also, if there are any Korean speakers out there, what does "dong" mean in Korean? Can we get word to the NK missile program that the US just can't take missiles named "somethingsomethingDONG" seriously?

We have 15 Aegis Destroyers off their coast. Whatever they shoot will barely make it out of their airspace.

And can we please forget the old "Seoul will get seriously farked up" storyline? No, no chance.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I don't think we can reliably shoot down artillery shells which is the main danger for Seoul. The rockets, which we can sometimes shoot down, are for more distant targets while Seoul is "nicely" within artillery range.

Reportedly discontinued (wink wink). But seriously, folks, Best Korea .... are they really ignorant of the history of RoKs when RoKs get their killing blood riled up? With the most advanced weaponry?

I say whatever this is taking up column inches is ... is on purpose for a much much larger scam going on that the hive of Evil, Washington DC, wants our attention deflected from. Whenever so much attention is focused in one area. look around on the other side of the world.

ox45tallboy:akula: NK has less ability to harm the US directly than Luxembourg current possesses.

I understand your analogy, but I disagree with it.

[www.vetfriends.com image 500x320]

As you can see here, the US has more than 60,000 troops stationed between Japan and South Korea, all within easy reach of weapons that South Korea possesses and we are reasonably certain are accurate enough to hit a stationary target. This does not include all of the warships and the personnel on board stationed in the region.

Luxembourg could theoretically hit the 60,000+ troops we have stationed between Germany and the UK with equivalent weapons; however, they really don't possess much of a military, much less any offensive missile capability. Therefore, North Korea has the potential to do more damage than Luxembourg.

You look at that chart and think, "Yeah, we got it covered."

Li'l Kim looks at that chart and thinks, "Hah--stupid Americans with their army stretched all across the globe. How do they expect to beat us when their government is already bankrupt?"

Just Another OC Homeless Guy:AdolfOliverPanties: I plan on moving to Hawaii in a few years. I personally give my blessing to wipe NK off the map if it's continued existence would screw up my new home.

I'm constantly amazed at the sociopathic self-centeredness of Fark's lefties. So you would trade the lives of 20+ million people for a nice pad in Hawaii?

AdolfOliverPanties: hubiestubert: I am more and more convinced that North Korea is really hoping for war, so that they can get rebuilt by the West. It takes them out of the Chinese pocket, it keeps the Russians out of their hair, and afterwards, Little Kim can be one of the cool kids at the UN table. At least one of the ones who got out of the dictator for life game, and retires someplace warm, with a lot of security paid for on someone else's dime...

Not a bad result for the little prick, if it works out exactly as he hopes. It won't though. Being rebuilt by the west is one thing, but that country is a barren wasteland, and not because of the Kim Jong family. They can't grow anything. They can't produce anything but weapons. Sadly, they are very good at that. We can't go in and rebuild and turn them into a thriving economy based on agriculture or business. They have shiat for natural resources.

Idiot answering an idiot.

I'm also constantly amazed at the profound ignorance of Fark's lefties.

God help the world if you morons ever run things.

I'm constantly amazed at people who are hard right being so quick to attack statements that are obviously parody, satire and hyperbole. Oh wait, no I'm not. There's three types of hard right people on FARK. Idiots, trolls, and idiots who are trolls.

21-7-b:Last year there was a missile launch a couple of days before the celebration

Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tightgonna grab some afternoon delight.My motto's always been; when it's right, it's right.Why wait until the middle of a cold dark night.When everything's a little clearer in the light of day.And you know the night is always gonna be there any way.

Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight.

Thinkin' of you's workin' up my appetitelooking forward to a little afternoon delight.Rubbin' sticks and stones together makes the sparks ingiteand the thought of rubbin' you is getting so exciting.

Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight.

Started out this morning feeling so politeI always though a fish could not be caught who wouldn't biteBut you've got some bait a waitin' and I think I might try nibblinga little afternoon delight.

Sky rockets in flight. Afternoon delight. Afternoon delight.

Please be waiting for me baby when I come around.We could make a lot of lovin' 'for the sun goes down.

lepton68:Wouldn't it be much easier to get the nuke closer to the USA and launch it from there? Hide it in a boat and sail toward our coast. Or probably easier, take the bomb, smuggle it into Canada then into the US and pick whatever city you want to destroy. Not trivial but easier than designing a very long range missile..

Here is why you can sleep tight knowing that it will never happen.Nukes tend to give out a bit of radiation. Ok scratch that, a farkTON of radiation. Not even lethal levels necessarily but for geiger counters and other detecters a nuke is a giant glowing beacon saying "LOOK HERE!". Want to know how sensitive the detecters are along the borders? If you get radiation treatment, they have to give you a special card to show at the border when you inevitably get pulled over because all the detecters light up when you get within blocks of them. They aren't just detecting radiation at the checkpoints, hell they arent just detecting radiation at the borders. If a dirty bomb could have been snuck into the country, they would already have lit one off.

A whole world full of crap to worry about, somebody sneaking in a nuke does not belong on that list however.

1. A tank gets 0.6 miles per gallon2. North Korea produces 0.0 billion barrels of oil per day3. China exports 8,432 bbl/day to North Korea4. Seoul alone has a population of 10,000,000+ people5. North Korea has approximately 5,000 tanks, more than half of which are absurdly outdated6. Even without South Korean resistance, they would need all of those tanks AND about 1,000,000 supporting men, trucks, etc to take and hold Seoul7. Which they would need lots and lots and LOTS of fuel for8. Which they won't get without Chinese support

Also:

1. North Korean nuclear weapons are smaller than the Hiroshima bomb2. North Korea's sole nuclear plant only puts out enough material to make about one bomb per year3. Their missiles can only just barely reach the US, if at all4. North Korea has only conducted 7 missile tests, 2 of which were long range and one of which failed

To sum up: they probably can't shoot us at all. Even if everything goes perfectly and won't shoot it down and the missile lands on target AND the bomb goes off...it will probably be less than 1/2 the yield of the Hiroshima bomb. For which we would immediately turn their whole country into a self-illuminating glass parking lot. Or invade, burn their palace down around their ears, and hang every man we found. Either way, it would be the total destruction of both their regime and their state, in return for...not all that much.

A more scary scenario involves a launch at Seoul or Tokyo, but even that would get instant condemnation and destruction. Hell...China would HELP us dismantle them at that point.

The only scenario where this possibly leads to war in one in which they somehow get Chinese backing, then use those nukes to blast a couple of big-ass holes through the DMZ and roll south with everything they have. They would do a LOT of damage. Seoul would be wrecked, central South Korea would be a mess, and it would take some pretty sharp action to stop them. But it would happen. It would be the Korean War all over again, with the same result: unless China or Russia intervenes on behalf of North Korea, they cease to exist.

North Korea is all kinds of crazy, but suicidal they aren't. Even if they actually believe their own propaganda vis-a-vis the US, they're quite realistic when it comes to China. They know they have an icicle's chance in Hell of taking them, and they have even less chance than that of surviving very long without their backing.

In summary: short of suicide, there will be no war, at least not started by North Korea. This current brinksmanship is happening for internal political reasons in North Korea, and will blow over eventually.

If they were doing this for anything other than attention, they would have done it by now. If you're going to do it, then just do it. What's the point of telling everyone every little thing you're going to do?

foo monkey:A bomb smaller than Little Boy would still decimate a city, moran.

Uh, you shouldn't be too sure of that. A bomb like little boy would not do too much damage to a city with modern construction involving concrete and steel. One of the main reasons it did SO MUCH damage when dropped on Nagasaki was that the city was literally made of wood and rice paper.

There's a reason no one uses single, big bombs anymore. MIRVs and multiple weapons with overlapping detonation patterns to create consecutive overpressure waves and firestorms are where it's at now.

1. A tank gets 0.6 miles per gallon2. North Korea produces 0.0 billion barrels of oil per day3. China exports 8,432 bbl/day to North Korea

I can't say its too far fetched that the NKPA has squirrled a good chunk of that away for a rainy day invasion. Oil is important, but their best military minds likely have it all planned out on how they can re-take the peninsula and overrun the imperialist oil supplies.

Yes, I know its far-fetched, much like, say, sending the bulk of Fourth Panzer Army off to the Caucasus to grab Stalin's oil supplies.

To sum up: they probably can't shoot us at all. Even if everything goes perfectly and won't shoot it down and the missile lands on target AND the bomb goes off...it will probably be less than 1/2 the yield of the Hiroshima bomb. For which we would immediately turn their whole country into a self-illuminating glass parking lot. Or invade, burn their palace down around their ears, and hang every man we found. Either way, it would be the total destruction of both their regime and their state, in return for...not all that much.

And if every nation thought rationally before going to war, there would be a whole heck of a lot more humans on this dirtball. Bush, Cheney, and Blair don't try occupying Iraq on the cheap. Saddam doesn't invade Kuwait. Japan doesn't bomb Pearl Harbor. Hitler doesn't invade Russia. Austria-Hungary doesn't declare war on Serbia.

It makes all the sense in the world for Best Korea not to start a war. However, the only way out of this crisis is by halting their nuclear weapons program. They pushed their luck again thinking that China would have their back and Worst Korea and Japan would panic and tell America to back off. Almost the exact opposite has happened. If they back down now, what happens in the barracks of Pyongyang and across the starving fields of the north?