In a truly free market, GM would get your money one way and one way only – by selling you a car you want, at a price you are willing to pay. Instead, the government is giving public money to a private company in spite of the market signals it has been sending.

Thank you Seahawks for pointing this out. Although it is obvious, we can always use more evidence. I cannot fathom why people are happy and just fine with billions of tax money being handed over to private CEO and board members, who are already billionaires. It makes no sense what so ever.

I for one would be so fucking pissed. If the vast American populace actually had a brain and could rationally sit down and research what is going on, there would be an overthrow of the government by force by tomorrow morning.

Thank you Seahawks for pointing this out. Although it is obvious, we can always use more evidence. I cannot fathom why people are happy and just fine with billions of tax money being handed over to private CEO and board members, who are already billionaires. It makes no sense what so ever.

I for one would be so fucking pissed. If the vast American populace actually had a brain and could rationally sit down and research what is going on, there would be an overthrow of the government by force by tomorrow morning.

you guys can't keep blaming Obama, he has only been at it for less than a year. Bush jr. is the fuck head to blame, it was his economic policy that put you guys in the mess you are in today. he didn't want to deal with the problem so he artificially kept the market bubbling so the next guy could deal with it because he has already got the worst wrap sheet of any American President.

you guys can't keep blaming Obama, he has only been at it for less than a year. Bush jr. is the fuck head to blame, it was his economic policy that put you guys in the mess you are in today. he didn't want to deal with the problem so he artificially kept the market bubbling so the next guy could deal with it because he has already got the worst wrap sheet of any American President.

No one is BLAMING Obama. The facts are being pointed out. We all know how Bushie fucked everything up. But does that mean government takeover of one of the largest companies in the world? Hell no. While I hated Bush he would've never let that happen...but for different reasons than myself.

No one is BLAMING Obama. The facts are being pointed out. We all know how Bushie fucked everything up. But does that mean government takeover of one of the largest companies in the world? Hell no. While I hated Bush he would've never let that happen...but for different reasons than myself.

[quote user="seahawks"]While I hated Bush he would've never let that happen...but for different reasons than myself.[/quote]

what are you on about, he was the one who bailed out AIG. he was the one that let everyone run rampant with artificially low interest rates. that's why you need regulations to keep all these greedy fuckers in place so they don't leverage their businesses so much so that their assets are less valuable than their debt. Obama had a tough task, let everyone crash and burn and hope for WW3 to get the USA out of a depression that would have been far worse than the one in the 1930 or try to stem the flow by trying to save the companies that employ the most people. either way he was going to get a kick in the nuts for what ever option he took. if he let everything crash and burn then their would much more civil unrest and even more bitching from the likes of you. this way at least he is saving these companies so that they can fight another day and so can millions of others who depend on these companies to run. look i am a capitalist at heart; i think that if a company fails it should go down, its their fault for not doing shit right, but when you have all of the major companies in the USA all failing at the same time.... it is a different story.

seahawks wrote:

While I hated Bush he would've never let that happen...but for different reasons than myself.

what are you on about, he was the one who bailed out AIG. he was the one that let everyone run rampant with artificially low interest rates. that's why you need regulations to keep all these greedy fuckers in place so they don't leverage their businesses so much so that their assets are less valuable than their debt. Obama had a tough task, let everyone crash and burn and hope for WW3 to get the USA out of a depression that would have been far worse than the one in the 1930 or try to stem the flow by trying to save the companies that employ the most people. either way he was going to get a kick in the nuts for what ever option he took. if he let everything crash and burn then their would much more civil unrest and even more bitching from the likes of you. this way at least he is saving these companies so that they can fight another day and so can millions of others who depend on these companies to run. look i am a capitalist at heart; i think that if a company fails it should go down, its their fault for not doing shit right, but when you have all of the major companies in the USA all failing at the same time.... it is a different story.

How so? Corporate America as a whole has fucked itself. From job outsourcing in telecomm., from cheap labor moving to other countries, off-shore headquarters to avoid taxation and much, much more. They are simply reaping what they've sewn. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, we're on the fucking Titanic with them. If these banks want to see some shit fixed, then move jobs back here. Cut subsidies in farming and quit letting corporations run the agriculture market. Make companies pay taxes, regardless of where they're "located". Make American companies responsible for labor practices REGARDLESS of the country their laborers are a part of.

Oh, and by the way monkey boy, Obama was present and accounted for for that entire AIG process due to the changing of the guard....hmmm...don't remember that do you? In his fancy talk he never said he supported or was opposed to the bailout. Yeah, not surprised that bit was missed. I don't even dislike Obama...yet. I'm still on the fence. But don't forget that fact. Obama was a committee member.

Aaaaand...if we look at the facts...back in March of this year I do believe a certain new President gave AIG another 30 BILLION!!

"and even more bitching from the likes of you."

Could you point out where I was exactly bitching? Now FUCK OFF.

How so? Corporate America as a whole has fucked itself. From job outsourcing in telecomm., from cheap labor moving to other countries, off-shore headquarters to avoid taxation and much, much more. They are simply reaping what they've sewn. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, we're on the fucking Titanic with them. If these banks want to see some shit fixed, then move jobs back here. Cut subsidies in farming and quit letting corporations run the agriculture market. Make companies pay taxes, regardless of where they're "located". Make American companies responsible for labor practices REGARDLESS of the country their laborers are a part of.

Oh, and by the way monkey boy, Obama was present and accounted for for that entire AIG process due to the changing of the guard....hmmm...don't remember that do you? In his fancy talk he never said he supported or was opposed to the bailout. Yeah, not surprised that bit was missed. I don't even dislike Obama...yet. I'm still on the fence. But don't forget that fact. Obama was a committee member.

Aaaaand...if we look at the facts...back in March of this year I do believe a certain new President gave AIG another 30 BILLION!!

[quote user="seahawks"]How so? Corporate America as a whole has fucked itself. From job outsourcing in telecomm., from cheap labor moving to other countries, off-shore headquarters to avoid taxation and much, much more. They are simply reaping what they've sewn. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, we're on the fucking Titanic with them. If these banks want to see some shit fixed, then move jobs back here. Cut subsidies in farming and quit letting corporations run the agriculture market. Make companies pay taxes, regardless of where they're "located". Make American companies responsible for labor practices REGARDLESS of the country their laborers are a part of.[/quote] this i agree with you 100%, this was not the epicentre of our disagreement.

[quote user="seahawks"]Oh, and by the way monkey boy, Obama was present and accounted for for that entire AIG process due to the changing of the guard....hmmm...don't remember that do you? In his fancy talk he never said he supported or was opposed to the bailout. Yeah, not surprised that bit was missed. I don't even dislike Obama...yet. I'm still on the fence. But don't forget that fact. Obama was a committee member.[/quote] i never said that Obama didn't have blood on his hands, its just that he is the one with all the power to deal with this shit in the now. he may have been on the committee but he wasn't the only one there. hey im still on the fence about Obama too, im just waiting for him to slip up like Clinton.... as all politicians fuck up and get disgraced one way or another

[quote user="seahawks"]Aaaaand...if we look at the facts...back in March of this year I do believe a certain new President gave AIG another 30 BILLION!![/quote] never disputed this, just told you to look at the prelude to the shit storm

[quote user="seahawks"]"and even more bitching from the likes of you."

Could you point out where I was exactly bitching? Now FUCK OFF.[/quote] more to the point i couldn't point out where you weren't bitching, but it is this bitching that keeps the fuckers in power on the edge forever with the guillotine hanging over their heads for when they fuck up. and stop taking everything so seriously, this is the interwebz...... i wasn't personally attacking you just trying to get you to justify your point more clearly so i can see were you stand

seahawks wrote:

How so? Corporate America as a whole has fucked itself. From job outsourcing in telecomm., from cheap labor moving to other countries, off-shore headquarters to avoid taxation and much, much more. They are simply reaping what they've sewn. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, we're on the fucking Titanic with them. If these banks want to see some shit fixed, then move jobs back here. Cut subsidies in farming and quit letting corporations run the agriculture market. Make companies pay taxes, regardless of where they're "located". Make American companies responsible for labor practices REGARDLESS of the country their laborers are a part of.

this i agree with you 100%, this was not the epicentre of our disagreement.

seahawks wrote:

Oh, and by the way monkey boy, Obama was present and accounted for for that entire AIG process due to the changing of the guard....hmmm...don't remember that do you? In his fancy talk he never said he supported or was opposed to the bailout. Yeah, not surprised that bit was missed. I don't even dislike Obama...yet. I'm still on the fence. But don't forget that fact. Obama was a committee member.

i never said that Obama didn't have blood on his hands, its just that he is the one with all the power to deal with this shit in the now. he may have been on the committee but he wasn't the only one there. hey im still on the fence about Obama too, im just waiting for him to slip up like Clinton.... as all politicians fuck up and get disgraced one way or another

seahawks wrote:

Aaaaand...if we look at the facts...back in March of this year I do believe a certain new President gave AIG another 30 BILLION!!

never disputed this, just told you to look at the prelude to the shit storm

seahawks wrote:

"and even more bitching from the likes of you."

Could you point out where I was exactly bitching? Now FUCK OFF.

more to the point i couldn't point out where you weren't bitching, but it is this bitching that keeps the fuckers in power on the edge forever with the guillotine hanging over their heads for when they fuck up. and stop taking everything so seriously, this is the interwebz...... i wasn't personally attacking you just trying to get you to justify your point more clearly so i can see were you stand

The caps made me seem much more angry than I was. I'm not really upset, but I also hate being called out on shit I didn't do.

And regarding that: "more to the point i couldn't point out where you weren't bitching". Are you saying you don't see where I was bitching or I was bitching the whole time. Because I simply posted an article. This isn't my blog or my words.

AIG did get a bailout, correct. But on MUCH different terms than GM. Completely different. And that's really the big and important difference here. I'm probably just as pissed about it as you. I was raging pissed when they got the money the first time, let alone the second. But they kept their company. Policy was still private. As a government company, like GM will be, government policy will dictate the company and they will NEVER be accountable for mistakes as it will be absorbed the government. Sure, we've a similar situation with AIG, but it's limited. They're out of help. Not the case with GM.

And you have to get a little used to an insult here and there monkey boy. I am called seacock nearly every day without batting an eye.

The caps made me seem much more angry than I was. I'm not really upset, but I also hate being called out on shit I didn't do.

And regarding that: "more to the point i couldn't point out where you weren't bitching". Are you saying you don't see where I was bitching or I was bitching the whole time. Because I simply posted an article. This isn't my blog or my words.

AIG did get a bailout, correct. But on MUCH different terms than GM. Completely different. And that's really the big and important difference here. I'm probably just as pissed about it as you. I was raging pissed when they got the money the first time, let alone the second. But they kept their company. Policy was still private. As a government company, like GM will be, government policy will dictate the company and they will NEVER be accountable for mistakes as it will be absorbed the government. Sure, we've a similar situation with AIG, but it's limited. They're out of help. Not the case with GM.

And you have to get a little used to an insult here and there monkey boy. I am called seacock nearly every day without batting an eye.

[quote user="seahawks"]The caps made me seem much more angry than I was. I'm not really upset, but I also hate being called out on shit I didn't do.

And regarding that: "more to the point i couldn't point out where you weren't bitching". Are you saying you don't see where I was bitching or I was bitching the whole time. Because I simply posted an article. This isn't my blog or my words.

AIG did get a bailout, correct. But on MUCH different terms than GM. Completely different. And that's really the big and important difference here. I'm probably just as pissed about it as you. I was raging pissed when they got the money the first time, let alone the second. But they kept their company. Policy was still private. As a government company, like GM will be, government policy will dictate the company and they will NEVER be accountable for mistakes as it will be absorbed the government. Sure, we've a similar situation with AIG, but it's limited. They're out of help. Not the case with GM.[/quote] you are correct on your assumptions, but i don't think that the government will completely control all facets of GM, they have said that their will be no board members that represent the government..... but there probably will be board members that will carry out what the government wants in one way or another. my feeling is that if a company fucks up let it die and another come from the rubble and innovate the industry, let the natural cycle of business go forth. this in turn will make everyone be better at running themselves, but there needs to be government regulations to keep these fuckers from doing this shit again. a steady mix of capitalism and socialism needs to be at play here.

[quote user="seahawks"]And you have to get a little used to an insult here and there monkey boy. I am called seacock nearly every day without batting an eye.[/quote] you should have seen scout and me go at each other a few days ago... i can take it like a man

seahawks wrote:

The caps made me seem much more angry than I was. I'm not really upset, but I also hate being called out on shit I didn't do.

And regarding that: "more to the point i couldn't point out where you weren't bitching". Are you saying you don't see where I was bitching or I was bitching the whole time. Because I simply posted an article. This isn't my blog or my words.

AIG did get a bailout, correct. But on MUCH different terms than GM. Completely different. And that's really the big and important difference here. I'm probably just as pissed about it as you. I was raging pissed when they got the money the first time, let alone the second. But they kept their company. Policy was still private. As a government company, like GM will be, government policy will dictate the company and they will NEVER be accountable for mistakes as it will be absorbed the government. Sure, we've a similar situation with AIG, but it's limited. They're out of help. Not the case with GM.

you are correct on your assumptions, but i don't think that the government will completely control all facets of GM, they have said that their will be no board members that represent the government..... but there probably will be board members that will carry out what the government wants in one way or another. my feeling is that if a company fucks up let it die and another come from the rubble and innovate the industry, let the natural cycle of business go forth. this in turn will make everyone be better at running themselves, but there needs to be government regulations to keep these fuckers from doing this shit again. a steady mix of capitalism and socialism needs to be at play here.

seahawks wrote:

And you have to get a little used to an insult here and there monkey boy. I am called seacock nearly every day without batting an eye.

you should have seen scout and me go at each other a few days ago... i can take it like a man