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UTAH VALLEY UNIVERSITY
Utah Valley University Library
George Sutherland Archives & Special Collections
Oral History Program
Utah Women’s Walk Oral Histories
Directed by Michele Welch
Interview with Carmen Negron
by
Dawn Hathcock
October 5, 2011
Utah Women’s Walk
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee:
Carmen Negron
Interviewer:
Dawn Hathcock
Place of Interview:
George Sutherland Archives, UVU, Orem, Utah
Date of Interview:
5 October 2011
Recordist:
Brent Seavers
Recording Equipment:
Zoom Recorder H4n
Panasonic HD Video Camera AG-HM C709
Transcription Equipment:
Express Scribe
Transcribed by:
Raili Bjarnson
Audio Transcription Edit
Kimberly Williamson; Lisa McMullin
Reference:
CN = Carmen Negron (Interviewee)
DH = Dawn Hathcock (Interviewer)
MW = Michele Welch (Director, Utah Women’s Walk)
Brief Description of Contents:
Carmen Negron talks about her early years living in Ponce, Puerto Rico, attending elementary school in New York City, and then returning to her native country to finish her schooling. She also discusses her love for learning, teaching special education, and her desire to come to the United States to receive her master’s degree in social work. She describes the challenges of being a single mother of three boys and one daughter, bringing her young family to Utah, and the discriminations as well as abuse her children experienced in their new environment. She outlines twenty plus years of working at Utah State Hospital, meeting her second husband, and the thrill of being a grandmother. The interview reveals her life mission to help others both in her profession and in whatever way she could serve humanity best.
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as uh and false starts and starts and stops in conversations are not included in this transcript. Changes by interviewee are incorporated in text. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. Clarifications and additional information are footnoted.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 2
Audio Transcription
[00:56]
Beginning of interview
DH: It’s October 5, 2011. [I’m ] at the George Sutherland Archives at Utah Valley University. My name is Dawn Hathcock, and I’m interviewing Carmen Negron for the Utah Women’s Walk.
Where were you born?
CN: I was born in Ponce, Puerto Rico. October 3, 1955.
DH: What was the name of the town?
CN: Well, the town was named Ponce, like Ponce de Leon. I was born in the place called La Playa de Ponce, which is “the beach” of Ponce. I was surrounded by tamarind trees, mango trees, the ocean—fruit that you could pickup when you walked to go to school straight from the floor and the sugar cane fields—beautiful sugar cane.
DH: Where did you attend school?
CN: My elementary school was in New York City. I went there from first to sixth grade—half of the sixth grade. Afterwards my parents moved to their homeland, which is Puerto Rico. I was there, and I finished my sixth grade there. I did not know how to speak correct Spanish; it was really Spanglish. Instead of saying the word Cuba, which is the right word for Cuba in Spanish, I would say something really weird, and everybody around me would start to laugh. (laughs) I decided to go to the university there. I wanted to be a schoolteacher, but I really always wanted to be a social worker.
I went to a Catholic university, which was very interesting because it was peaceful, quiet, and I considered it a safe place to be. And I decided that I could not study social work there. You had to have a master’s degree, so I went into special education. I was a schoolteacher for about five to six years [in] special ed[ucation], which I really loved because I got to do things that were really exciting [and] interesting to help my students. And I had gotten married and gotten divorced there. But I always loved school. I knew I wanted to come to the States and do my master’s degree in social work. I would have not been in a social work position just with four years of a bachelor’s degree at home. You had to have a master’s. You know, it’s a tiny island, but very political. If you did not belong to the political party at the time, you could have difficulties finding a job or getting a job for the summer.
I’m very happy because I feel that I’m two in one. I love the tiny island, but I love the States. And the States is where I really got my grounding. I’ve been told that I am an Americanized Puerto Rican. I take that as (laughs) being a woman that has values that Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 3
American women have—and not that Puerto Rican women that are raised there don’t have, but I have noticed that I speak up. I’m not afraid to say, “Excuse me, I think we need to talk about that”—somebody that is willing to help the underdog, that’s me [and] sometimes without any fear.
I knew I was coming back to the States. I knew I was going to get a scholarship. I went to BYU [Brigham Young University] knocking at the doors. And I told the professors, “I’m here. I want to be a social worker. What do I need to do?” And it was interesting because I’ve always known I’m a people person. If I go somewhere with my children, they say, No, not again, because I talk to anybody and everybody: people in front of the line, people on the back of the line, or on the sides of the line. I will strike up conversation. When I went to BYU, the professors were really good. And they told me, Well, your bachelor’s degree is in special ed. If you want to go to the program, you need to have one year of prerequisites. And I said, “Okay.” At that time BYU had a scholarship called the Lamanite Scholarship. That’s because I’m a little dark you know. That’s okay, and I went and knocked at the doors, and I said, “I’m here; I need schooling.” I was alone with four children. And I was accepted and ecstatic jumping up and down and went to class. And then it was like, Where am I getting my money to go to get my master’s degree? But again, they came through. I can honestly tell you that when I went to BYU, my professors, social workers were very, very invested in the twenty of us that were in the program at that time—to graduate, to do what we needed to do. I had one of my professors take care of my four children because I had gone to the hospital to get surgery. Her name was Ann Horton. She took care of my children so that I could finish [my] coursework. I’ve been very blessed.
When I came to Utah in 1984—I can see it right now—May 26, 1984. I got to Denver, Colorado. I’m up in the escalators with four children. One of them pulls my hand, and we go boom, boom, boom, boom down the escalators. I just picked myself up and I said, “Let’s keep going.” When I came to Utah, I had a two-bedroom apartment rented for one month only. I had two mattresses one in each room. I carried a thirteen-inch black and white TV with me from home. From home, I had sent seven boxes, right? They had sheets. It is an island; it is really hot. You don’t have quilts, right, and cotton clothing. And May 26, 1984—it was really cold, very cold. And the children would have accidents on the mattresses. I was okay because I knew that I was going to make it. I knew that I had to. I was going to have to do sacrifices, but I was going to really make it. And I have always loved working with people. I’m talking too much. You keep asking questions.
DH: What was it like to emigrate from Puerto Rico?
CN: Okay, I want to say something to you. In Puerto Rico, I think the date is 1917. I think it’s seventeen or it could be fourteen. Will you check it out?1 Puerto Ricans are citizens of the United States. So when I came here, my English was really rusty. And people would laugh when I would say certain things, but I really didn’t take it personal. I just laughed
1. Carmen refers to the Jones-Shafroth Act, which conferred citizenship on Puerto Ricans in 1917.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 4
with them too because I knew that my English was rusty, and I did not want to take anything personal. I didn’t want barriers in front of me that I could not jump, go under, go over, and to move on.
I did have certain experiences when my children were wetting the bed. I had no quilts to cover them with. I used to go to a Spanish ward in Payson [Utah], and I lived in Provo.2 So, I decided to see if I could get some help in the little ward that I belonged to. When I went there, they were all men, right. My children, oh they had bad colds. Coming from really warm sunshine to it’s freezing here. Their noses were all runny. I had them all with me cleaned up, and there were like seven men. I said that I’m just asking for a little bit of help because I don’t have quilts. I have sheets, lots of them. I even put rice, which is a staple that we eat, beans, and salt in my seven boxes. I put some food in there to secure some food when I got here. It was like the Inquisition when I went there. I felt a little intimidated when you sit in front of seven guys. Somebody said to me—I don’t know what they’re called when people come here from other countries that are not citizens, sponsors, something like that. They said to me, Who brought you here? Who is your sponsor? I said, “Sir, people from Puerto Rico are citizens of the United States.” Oh, and then one person started to explain to the rest so they can all get on—it was pretty intimidating, but I didn’t let that stop me.
If I need to educate people, I will with love and care. Some people just don’t know. People from Puerto Rico got their citizenship before Native Americans. Native Americans, I think it was 1923. All I wanted to do—at the time my children all spoke Spanish; I wanted them to learn English. So I plastered everything in English all over the house on the sofa, the television, in the refrigerator, the spoon. You want to know something? When I came, it was May and I said, “Oh my goodness when December comes it’s going be a tough Christmas for me. I don’t know anybody. I don’t have family here.” [I knew] a couple of members of the Church and that’s how I got here.3
That was my thought when I came, but within a month of being here I got a job. I went through this training at the time called JTPA, Job Training Partnership Act. The man that taught there, his name is Julio Rodriguez. Julio really taught skills, and I put those skills into action. And today I teach those skills still to people. I learned that if you want to work at a certain place—guess what I always wanted to work at psychiatric hospital. I didn’t know why at the time, but ten years later I understood why. God had plans for me. He was preparing me. Okay, when I came one of the first things—I always loved school, learning is the best, and it is such a natural high. Okay, it is like, Give me more; I want to learn more and share.
That year, 1984, I had gone (knocking on table) knocking at the doors to BYU bugging people. What do I need to do? What papers do I need to do? The secretary corrected the
2. A ward is the basic ecclesiastical unit in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
3. Carmen refers to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 5
paperwork that I handed in because I knew that there were spelling errors. And you think in Spanish, and you write in English, and it’s the reverse, right. And I said, “Okay.” Sometimes when I write things, I laugh. Oh my gosh, I’m talking in Spanish there. The secretary was really good. She was a Native American. And I really think in my soul that many times there’s a connection—that people are put in your journey for a reason and a purpose. And I really think that she was there to help me. That and since I had gone to BYU and I told the people I’m here, I want to get a scholarship. I want to go to school. I wanted to go to school because I didn’t have a husband. And I knew that it was me that had to get more schooling to be able to provide better for my children. Even though with a bachelor’s degree, I couldn’t teach here. I did not have a teaching certificate. That meant you have to go to school and I didn’t want to be stuck in a low-paying job. Mind you, I have cleaned toilets. I have helped people move and be[en] paid with a washer and a dryer instead of money for me. I have helped people with different issues. I have permitted people to live at home that did not have a place to live. I was willing to do whatever, I still am.
But that year, do you want to know what happened? I had talked to the ladies at BYU. The lady that was the manager of the twelve apartments where I was living, she spoke Spanish. Oh, that was great. Oh, that was so good. That year she did a Sub-for-Santa for me and my children; so did the ladies from BYU. By the time everybody came, okay, each one of my children had like seventy-five presents each. It was galore. But they didn’t have coats, and they didn’t have boots, and I didn’t have the iron to iron. I did have the blender. I just gave the blender away the other day. I let go. I said, “You’ve been with me for twenty plus years. You served me well, and I want you to go somewhere else and serve them well.” It was very astonishing for me because I thought it was going to be a horrendous Christmas, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t. I was so grateful, and I didn’t know that it was okay—at that time I didn’t know that it was okay to give presents like coats that had been used or boots that have been used. I didn’t know that was okay. Culturally, I didn’t know that, so I learned many things. I got off on a tangent, sorry.
DH: It is absolutely fine. What is your family like?
CN: My family, I have three sons, and my youngest is my daughter, Yamilza. Yamilza is the youngest, but in the family it’s as if she is the oldest daughter because she’s the only daughter. And I struggled a lot with my children because they were darker skinned. And I never thought that would affect them, but somehow it affected them. I thought that they would have a strong hard-core skin like their mom, but they were affected. Because at the time, in 1984, if you came to Utah and you saw somebody really dark your same color, do you know what you would do? The person is over here, right and you are over here. (tapping on table) You would go to connect, “Hi, how are you? What are you doing? Where are you from?” Today it’s different. Today you have all shades of brown, and blue, and pink, but at that time, it was really tough to find people the same color of your skin.
For me, I have been raised in New York City around a lot of different people. I could adjust and adapt easily, but my children had a little bit of a harder time. And my boys had Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 6
struggles. My boys really, really struggled. My boys had me—in Spanish it’s (speaking Spanish) “they had me on a skate.” Always going, going because they started to get in trouble, okay. They started not wanting to go to school. I thought if I give them the example of going to school [and] working. But they didn’t have a dad, and they didn’t have anybody, for that matter. That was rough. Even though I put on a strong face, and I kept plugging in there no matter what, my children weren’t me, and they had great struggles.
I don’t know how open I should be about their struggles. I’m never afraid to talk to anyone about my family, but my family definitely is not perfect. I can’t go around telling the world that my four children all went to college, and they are high upstanding citizens. I think they’re on their way though. I’ve always believed that. The three boys were all athletes. They played baseball, and they have skills. And my oldest, Carlos, decided that he wanted to experiment with sex. So at age sixteen his girlfriend got pregnant and that was really hard. Because as a social worker, as someone that was working in the drug and alcohol field, I made sure that I took my children to programs that were called Just Say No—prevention programs. There was a program at BYU; it was a wellness program. It was for families that were struggling and were having troubles with their children. And at the time that was really hard. That was a baby having a baby. And that just was so rough.
My second boy, Heny H-e-n-y, there’s not too many people with that name, had great struggles. I didn’t know at the time. When they were teenagers, I joined the Tough Love program. I don’t know if you know about it, but Tough Love is a program where parents got together and help each other out with all the struggles that they were having. They would have a group for the parents and a group for the teenagers. And there was a lady in charge for the group for the teenagers that was a foster mother, so she knew a lot of things.
I had taken my children there. So, my boy Heny started to get out of control and as a social worker my mind starts to work. I said to myself and I asked him, “Have you been abused sexually?” And he said, “No.” But it’s not uncommon for boys to deny being sexually abused, and he started to have troubles. I went to truancy school three times. Two of them were in detention, twice or three times.
My boy, Johnny at sixteen got really depressed, and we didn’t know, and he had gotten his girlfriend pregnant. And you start to feel like a failure, you know. But I also knew that I had taught my children well—that they made choices and that’s not an excuse. But what happened was even tougher. He came down with schizophrenia, and when that happened, I knew why I always wanted to work in a psychiatric hospital. The Lord was preparing me for what was to come.
And my son Heny, the second boy—let’s see when was this. Maybe five years ago it comes out that his sixth grade teacher had been sexually abusing him. She taught at—what’s that beautiful elementary school here in Provo that we went to? The name doesn’t come to mind, but I’ll tell you part of what happened. [She] was really good to us. She knew I was a single parent. She knew I was struggling. She would come around andUtah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 7
befriend us. Sunset Elementary, that’s the school. When my kid was in school, Patti Harrington was the principal of Sunset Elementary. I love her. She’s very loving and caring. But when this comes out, my son was involved taking drugs really bad. And you know, we believed him. And I know that there was something that my gut was telling me at the time—he went into sixth grade and [she] was his teacher—that something was not right. In fact, this teacher was behaving as if she were a jealous girlfriend from my son’s girlfriend. And that was really, really rough. You know, when something like that comes out in the community there is always people that say, This person could’ve never done that. And then there’s the people that say, Yes, this happened, and these were the signs besides the person that’s the victim. When we went to the county—the court to see the—what’s the name of the person that you see there?
[26:08]
The attorney. My son sat right next to me and started to tell what had happened. And as he sat, right next to me he was describing everything in that bedroom, where everything was at. And his tone of voice wasn’t that of a twenty some year-old man; it was that of a sixth-grade kid. And you could see all the descriptions, the impact that had on him. I always told this boy, I said, “Oh my gosh, you give me a run for my money. But I know what’s going to happen. Years from now after you’ve done all the things that you have wanted to do. We are going to have a family reunion; you’re going to be there, and family is going to be around. And they are going to laugh at some of the things that you have done. But you will surpass this. You will be a good man, a better man, and the family is going to be there all together saying, ‘Do you remember when you did da-da-du?’”
My boys really, really got into a lot of trouble. I love them. That’s true. I was a tough mom. I thought I had to be really tough with them. I wasn’t the type of mom that would say, “Not my son.” To the contrary, they would be guilty first, and then we would try to prove their innocence because I knew them. And this boy just came out of prison. He did a year in prison because of meth. He got hooked on meth, and you would not recognize this man. When people use meth, there’s no fat in their face. They just are sucked in, you know, and they’re so skinny and gaunt looking. But as a mom, when he started to get into trouble because they have this magical thinking that’s not going to happen to me. But that’s not true. And in one year, I think he went to jail like seven times, and I said, “Son, you need to see your probation officer.” And this is what he would say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” One time he comes home and he is talking and his eyes are bulging out and I look at myself—I got married seven years ago. I’m so grateful. Oh, yes I’m so grateful. I have to tell you the story about that one.
My son came through the door; he was like they say in the drug culture “spazzing out.” And I saw him and I said, “This is my opportunity. I’m going to call his probation officer so they can take him to jail and he can live,” because it was a matter of saving his life. That wasn’t easy to do. Not all parents dare to do this. It’s so painful. But I did it, and the probation officers came to my living room and put the handcuffs on him in the back. Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 8
Mom, [I] can’t believe you did that to me bla-bla. I said, “Son, it is to save your life,” and he left.
And after I don’t know how many months he was in there, he tells me, “You know, Mom, you did the right thing. Thank you.” And we thought, Hey he’s going to make it (laughs), but it didn’t happen that way. He has a big history. He has had so much pain in his life. At age nineteen, he got stabbed. He got stabbed because he was with the wrong people, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, but the Lord was with him. When they were building the East Bay area, I guess the young people at the time would rent rooms in those motels, drink, and do their thing. Sell drugs, buy drugs, have sex. And he was with another young man that we knew, and somehow they got into a scuffle, and I think he was the one who created the mess. And later on they made a phone call to get a hold of him, and they set up a nice ambush where like seven kids came. They fought. He was a fighter. He no longer is; he’s turning thirty-two, and he says, “Mom, I’m getting old.” And I’m like, Hallelujah, brothers and sisters. (laughter) You are not going to give me this strife anymore. They fought and the friend that was with him ran off—left him there. And between seven—one specific young man stabbed him four or five times. And his intestines were out of his body, and he was holding on to them running through the area, and knocked at somebody’s door, and they opened and they called the ambulance. And for that I am so grateful.
There’s something else. Later on when his girlfriend got pregnant, his baby was born how? with his intestines out of his body. And I said to him, “Wow.” And those are those genetic things that happen. Primary Children’s within a day or so put that back in there. He’s a sweet boy and he looks just like his father. And I told his dad, “Boy are you going to pay for some.” (laughter) My son Heny—I see that out of all my children—him and the one that has schizophrenia has suffered a lot. Suffering is part of life; it’s what makes us stronger. And I know that at the end of it all, they will be better people.
Ah, this is one thing I tell them, so if they would want to argue with me, I said, “Excuse me, in the preexistence you guys chose me as your mom” And I said, “I’ll be your mother. I’ll be your mom, your mom, and your mom. You chose me and I chose you, so you’re stuck.” And then they would calm down quickly (laughs) and they don’t start to do their ruckus. You chose me remember that? So they calm down. Oh, yes, we did choose you, Mom, and that’s how I got here.
It’s been quite interesting. I’m so happy that I’m fifty-six and not twenty-three because as years have gone by, I am now happy. I don’t think I was happy for many years. And it had to do with poverty. And it had to do with not having a dad for the children, not having a grandma around or a grandpa. Not doing those celebrations, but guess what? Now we have that for the grandkids. And my children really see that now. And you know when you turn fourteen and you sometimes think that you know more than your mom and your dad? We’ve all gone through that. As my children have gotten older, they have come to me and said, Oh, Mom, man, were we lost, huh? We thought we knew it all. And they do come and appreciate all the struggles that we went through—when all the sacrifices and all the teachings that were done.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 9
It’s not uncommon if your children are sexually abused, usually moms have been sexually abused too, okay. And that’s something that happened to me. When you don’t know—I think the Lord really guides you for your healing and love and repentance. Although, I’ve always considered myself to be one of God’s rebellious children; I have. I’m not perfect. I was raised somewhere else. I’m a convert. I’ve questioned certain things sometimes and not because I am a bad woman or I want to be a bad person or anything like that. It’s the experiences that I brought with me were what gave me the shade as to looking at things. But that also has given me great empathy for people. For that, I wouldn’t change how I grew up for anything in this world. Believe me I wouldn’t. What other questions do you have?
[36:08]
DH: What is it like working at the Utah State Hospital and running the seminary’s program there?
CN: Oh, I am blessed. I went to the hospital and got hired. I think it was October 27, 1990, so I’ve been working there—this October it’s twenty years. When I would drive when the kids were little, I would say, “I’m going home to my children.” I was going to work. The hospital has been home. The hospital has many excellent people [who are] loving carrying. And you can get free therapy anytime of the day because the great majority of the people there are psychologists and social workers. The psychiatrists, if you have a problem, you can (knocking on table) knock at any one of their doors and they open the doors for you to sit down and talk to you and give you guidance. And that has been the place where I have grown professionally. I laugh when I look back twenty years ago and I would write a social history. I would write in English, The mother said, “Da-ta-da-ta,” and that is a translation from Spanish. (speaking Spanish) I was like, Oh, my gosh, when somebody reads that and says, Carmen Negron wrote that. Oh, my gosh, but that was in my beginning years.
As the years went by, I started to work on the forensic unit. Forensic is for people who have been accused of crimes. And there are people there that have gone already to court and have been adjudicated and have been moved there for treatment. We have people there that are not guilty by reason of insanity. There are not too many of those. That’s a very small, tiny, insy-whinsy percentage of people that have that. What do you call it— adjudication. And then there are people there that have been accused of all the crimes that you can believe. [For example] a mentally old-person is walking without shoes breaking into somebody’s house because they want to get warm and they want to eat. And they take them to jail, and in jail they notice he’s talking to the walls. He’s talking to unseen others. He doesn’t belong here or she. So, they’ll send them to the hospital for an evaluation, a competency evaluation. I worked on the forensic unit for eight years first as a social worker. And I didn’t know this is and what I said [is], “I grew there.” As a beginner social worker, I thought when people come and they have problems we’re there to help them resolve and break through. I was told, No, you’re not here for that. You’re here to evaluate only. You’re not here to do treatment. That was hard because you go to Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 10
school to get your master’s degree, and I’m going to help people. And all of the sudden that was like—whoa. I’m just going to evaluate. How about these issues that happened to this person, and they are in so much pain. No, that’s not for us to do right now, so that took me a while to learn. But I had fun. I taught the patients how to dance the Macarena.
When the Macarena came, you know that dance; the men didn’t know their left foot from their right foot. So I would bring lady patients from one unit so that they can learn how to appropriately dance with a woman and know which was the left foot. You know, that was so much fun. I had the ability of making Rice Krispie treats without having a knife because it wasn’t permitted.
I brought people from BYU to set up a program for forensic to bring live music to forensic because the forensic people were locked in. They couldn’t go out to get fresh air. They’re locked-in, and when you have thirty men locked in a small space, some of them are going to create great troubles. But overall, I can honestly tell you that they will behave also by the way that you treat them. Okay, and I would look at their talents and put those talents to work. Who knows how to sew? Oh you do, okay I need you to sew the curtains that will go from here to there. One Saturday we were painting (laughs) one of the psychiatrist’s offices on a Saturday. And the people would see me at work, What do you want, Carmen? Well I need paint, and I need the ladder, and I need paint brushes because there’s always regulations that you have to follow [and] I had been (knocking on table) knocking and bothering everybody. And one Saturday we painted Dr. Peter Heinbecker’s office. He’s a Notre Dame fan. You should see what they would do to him. They put a lot of stuff from BYU in his office, you know. But he’s a good sport and a great man. And on the forensic unit, when I went to work there were five men, and I was the only women. So I was with the boys, but then again when I grew up, I grew up with boys, and that was good for me. That was very, very good.
They say it’s a man’s world, you know, I can buy that, but I’ll stand up to any man, honestly. I know how to be assertive. I know what I want, and I know how to work hard. And I know that if you told me no, you can’t do that, I am going to show you that yes, I can. Working on the forensic unit for eight years was excellent. I got to do things that other people don’t do.
I went to a conference; there were Native Americans. I’ve always wanted to learn from different cultures and different backgrounds. This is my joke; I went to a Catholic university and did my bachelor’s degree. I went to a Mormon university and did my master’s.4 I need to go to a Jewish university and do my doctorate’s degree. But I don’t have one close by so, we’ll see what happens. (laughter)
At eight years I had a couple of students come through, and my boss who loves me—oh my gosh—I am so grateful that the Lord put him in my path. His name is Dallas
4. The Mormon Church is the unofficial, but common name for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Brigham Young University is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 11
Earnshaw. Dallas Earnshaw is the superintendent of the state hospital right now.5 But at
the time when I was working on the forensic unit he was there as an administrative
director. And I would think of things, and I would go and sit down with him and say,
“What do you think if we did this, this, and this?” He would say, “That sounds good,
Carmen. What do you need?” “Well I need a purchase order to get this, this, and this.”
And he made it possible for me to do things that are creative that would help my patients.
We would do Spanish classes, painting classes, music classes—all kinds of things on the
forensic unit.
After eight years, I was offered to run a drug and alcohol program, which for two and a
half years before I came to the hospital I had worked at The Gathering Place.6 And at The
Gathering Place—I went there April ’88 until October 1990—there I worked with kids in
the school setting. You know, I laugh because Utah County at that time would think, Ah,
you are going to Spanish Fork to the Landmark Independence High School? Ah, do you
know what kind of kids are there? And I said, “Rebellious ones? Ah, well.” That’s one of
my best experiences in my life. The boys, I would run groups with boys only, girls only,
or girls and boys together. My best groups—number one were boys only because here I
had my boys with their mohawks, their chains, and their leather jackets. And the rough
and tough [boys] sitting in a group with me talking from their heart. Honestly, with teary
eyes and they were just young children. No matter if they were six-four and they might
have had a potty mouth outside of the community. And that intimacy with those boys, it
was time for healing. And that was something that I will never forget. And the girls were
good too. The only issue was every time you went there it was, Ah, Carmen, I think I’m
pregnant. Carmen, this bad thing happened to me this weekend. I know some of it really
did happen. Bad things really did happen. I’ve had some adult patients that were my
students when I was younger working with them.
[46:58]
You give love, care, respect, [and] hope. My philosophy is the following: I came into this
world to do everything that I could to help anyone that the Lord put in my path.
Anyone—doesn’t matter who. And my hopes are that I will give them the best that I
have. Because I don’t know when I get to be old, old woman, I know one of them is most
likely going to come up in my life. I believe that. And I have told all my patients, “You
never know, you might be the one taking care of me when I’m this little, old lady in the
psychiatric unit or in a nursing home. And I will kick and scream and say, ‘I’m not taking
those meds, no, no, no.’” They all laugh, but the hospital has been home for me.
The hospital is home. I have like five years, almost six to retire. And I’ve said to myself,
This is like having a baby, raising the baby, going through its hardships and the teenage
years, and then breaking away when they have to leave the house. You know, some
people leave with love (makes kissing noises) and care, and it’s going to be okay. Others
fight with their parents to individuate. And I’ve said to myself, I don’t need to fight. I
5. Carmen refers to the Utah State Hospital located in Provo, Utah.
6. Located in Orem, Utah, The Gathering Place is a substance abuse treatment facility.
Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 12
know that my time will come when I have to leave home, move on. But home is the state hospital. That’s one of the best places there is.
It’s saddening that people don’t understand mental illness. It’s saddening that they use the words crazy or they see somebody that is on a manic high. They think that they’re on drugs, but they’re not; they’re very manic. And still people in the community don’t understand mental illness. That hurts; that truly hurts. It hurts too when it’s hard for families to accept that there is mental illness in the family. When my child came down with schizophrenia, my daughter understood, but the oldest boy Carlos—Carlos and Heny—they couldn’t accept it. They have accepted it now. Johnny is thirty and this happened from age sixteen until now.
And by the way, he is at the state hospital right now, in treatment. I’m grateful; I’m so grateful that he’s there because I know the kind of work that we do. Is it the perfect place? There’s no such thing. Perfection is work in progress.
I don’t know what other things would you like to know.
DH: Who were the women you admire the most while growing up and do you still admire them even now?
CN: Oh, I should have brought Grandma here. I brought my grandmother that is ninety-one years old from Puerto Rico last year. She loves to travel. (laughs) She is awesome. My grandmother, her name is Patria Negron. My grandma in my family was the carpenter, the electrician, the painter. She sews, the sewer, and the businesswomen. My grandma is the banker in the family. She is a very poor person with material things, but the richness that she has, Donald Trump doesn't get to her ankles. My grandmother [is a] very strong woman, and just last year I learned from her why Grandma was so tough. Her skin—tough skin—and Grandmother told me that she was fourteen years old when her dad died. She has two more sisters, and they are still alive. And the three of them are widows. (laughs) And they are a hoot and different. Grandma’s very serious. She was the oldest and had to be in charge of everything, but now Grandma is a little bit looser, you know. And Grandma said, “When my dad died I was fourteen. My other sister was—” My other aunt is say is eighty-five; so she was four, five years older and younger the second one. And then the baby had been born and was a couple of months old.
She can cook, Hilda; I brought her last year from Puerto Rico and my grandmother that is ninety-one and my cousin Lola. I said, “Lola, you have to come because I don’t know if I will be able to have time off. You can take care of our old ladies because you know what they eat in the morning; you can make that; everything will be in the home.” And she came. She didn’t have to pay for an airplane ticket. I sent for them. I tell my husband, “My roots are very important to me.”
Her mom Abuela Carmen, she died like sixteen or seventeen years ago, and I knew her and her mother, Abuela Antonia, okay I knew her when I was four or five years old, and I remember her. One of my cousins was her favorite. (laughs) And I just remember her Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 13
buying—there were these penny candies, and my cousin, his name is Tebol. Tebol. “Yes, Grandma,” and she would get these candies. Okay, Carmen, you have a little bit of this; you have a little bit of that. And there were a lot of grandkids around, great-grandkids. So my grandchildren are the fifth generation in my family. But my mom just passed last year.
But my grandmother when she came, oh my gosh, I rented two wheelchairs for the elderly. Grandma, she looks Indian. You know there were Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. She is cinnamon color, and her hair now is white, but very long. And I say, “Grandma, you can’t walk like you used to.” And her sister’s really skinny and tall. (laughs) And I said, “Hilda, I know you can move.” She’s like attention deficit disorder. (laughs). Grandma and her are always fighting. It is really funny; two sisters, you know, seventy-seven and ninety-one bickering with each other. The family looks at them and says, Are you guys arguing again? They wanted to watch TV, and they fall asleep, and one bugs the other, Hey, hey, get up. I’m fine; I’m just watching TV, and the other one does the same. Very strong, strong women.
I admire her and my great-grandmother, Carmen. And when I say my prayers, I talk to my great-grandma. And I talk to my family members that have passed on. Like when my kids were out of control, I would always, always pray and ask them to watch over them and guide them. Because I know that as a mom, they were not listening to me. But it’s the same as when there are people put in my path that I help those children [that] didn’t listen to their parents either. So, that’s one of the women is my grandma. My grandmother, used to sew, took care of me when I was little. She always had a little business selling candy, and they made these sandwiches out of hot dog buns. They’re good okay, really good stuff. So, she’s the mover and the shaker. There was a rule, if you got a loan from grandma, and you did not pay her back, that was it. You would never ever again get a loan because grandma was not going to permit such a thing. And you didn’t have to pay any interest.
And my great-grandma Carmen, she was little; my legs are skinny like hers. I love frosting on the cake just like her. I love to dance just like her, and I carry her name. My grandma told me that when she was fourteen, [my] grandma had to go and clean people’s houses to get a plate of food for her and her three daughters. So, I really come from a strong line of women. And I am so grateful and that they believed in me like when I was coming to Utah, my grandmother said, “You’re not going to have any problems girl. It’s going to be okay.” And I always had a voice at Grandma’s house. Every day at five, six o’clock, before they would eat, we would sit and discuss politics, and that was a hoot because we had our Democrats; we had our Republicans; we had our Independents, and we had the ones that said, We don’t care. But it wasn’t vicious; it was we can talk politics. That’s something that I really, really loved, and they always said for us to go to school and learn. Go get an education. And I always talk to my great-grandma. That’s something that I’ve never stopped doing.
[58:10]Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 14
DH: Are there any words of wisdom or maxims you live your life by?
CN: Say that again.
DH: Are there any words of wisdom or maxims you live your life by?
MW: Like a model, a life model, or a scripture, or anything that represents you.
CN: The Lord loves me no matter what. That has always been with me. The Lord loves me no matter what. No matter if, my children didn’t do what was asked. No matter what’s going on in my life, the Lord loves me, no matter what. This too shall pass. I’m here for a reason and a purpose. And I’m always open to learning.
I forgot to tell you about my daughter, Yamilza. Yamilza is a schoolteacher. She has two beautiful, adorable children, a one-year girl Jozy and a boy Dezmond. I said, “Did Dezmond come out of Lost?”7 You know, if you ever saw Lost, there was a Desmond. And those children when I look at them, my thoughts are this is my opportunity to be even a better a parent, a grandparent.
And to love my daughter the way I’ve always loved her. We have a very strong bond, and she is an awesome woman. And I know I taught her well because I see it in the things that she does. You know, it’s fun to do Sub for Santa for others quietly, collect, and go. I belong to the Disabled American Veterans Auxiliary organization. Tonight we meet, and it’s a great organization. Where two years ago—I’ve done a lot of things.
I collect clothing for the poor, and I’ve been doing that for twenty years. It’s a lot of fun. Some clothing goes to Mexico and some clothing stays here, or goes to a Baptist church, or anybody that needs it. At the hospital, there’s a clothing center, and the overflow, they pass it on to me, and then I distribute it. (laughs) It’s great to do that type of work. I was sixteen years old when I had my own girls club in Puerto Rico where we collected food for the poor. In seventh grade, I was making Kool-Aid and selling sandwiches to make money to help others. When Roberto Clemente died, the famous baseball player from Puerto Rico, he died because his plane was overloaded with clothing that was going— I can’t remember if it was going to Guatemala or the Dominican Republic—one of those places. I was collecting clothing in my (unintelligible word) and I wrote very clearly, “I do not want stained clothing. I do not want broken zippers. I do not want clothing that has no buttons. That’s not what I need.” The Lord has permitted me to do really grass roots things that are really powerful, and for that I am grateful. Very grateful. And I’ll keep doing it because well, when you do this type of thing it’s—now when I say, I want to retire it’s not because I am going to be rocking in a chair at home. I’m going to be doing things. It’s important. Last year this little old lady sewed eight hundred of those, what do you call them? To put candy in, the little sacks.
MW: Oh, stockings.
7. Desmond is a character in the television series Lost.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 15
CN: Stockings, um-hm, and she couldn’t see very well. So they distributed everything, and we looked at it and said it’s a good job. Just turn it inside out and put certain things on it, and those were all shipped out to soldiers. I’ve learned more about the military because I’m married to a veteran. I didn’t tell you. I have to tell you the story.
MW: Yes. Tell us about—
CN: My husband?
MW: Yes, and even back when you were first married and your four children. Do you mind telling that?
[01:03:28]
CN: Sure. The first time I married, I was this young naïve young woman. I grew up in a home where they sold drugs. There were drug raids. I thought I was supposed to marry a man that had drug problems so that I could help him, you know. So that’s exactly what I did, and I tried to help my husband at the time. I got him enrolled at the university, but he went drinking, and he dropped out. He only worked once doing some kind of insurance.
And for twenty years, he didn’t have contact with his kids. There was no child support, no birthday presents, no Christmas cards, nothing. When I could get a hold of him, I would say, “You know something, your children need you.” And I waited for him for about twelve years to see if he, in New York, would clean up his act. He had wanted me to go there, and I said, “Nope. I’m not going there; I want to stay here.” I thought it would be better for my children they could be alive here than in New York. And he got clean and sober at age forty-five. Right now and he was just here this past year, and I shared my children with him. Whereas seven years ago when I got married—I couldn’t do that.
Seven years ago, I’m at work—it’s called the Sunrise Program.8 I’m there, and I’m saying, “Lord, if it’s meant to be that I marry will You please send me a sign. And if it’s meant that I not marry, let me know still.” The following week my husband was in front of the Sunrise door.9 He came to do volunteer work. The Lord sent him to me, and that’s not all. Before I even asked for a husband I said, “Lord, I would like to have a husband. Could he please not have children?” I just went through (clears throat) with my four children. And I don’t think that I could handle adult children becoming jealous of me as a human being. And I have still all of my children. Could you please send him without children? I’m not being, egoísta “selfish.” I’m not being selfish; I’m just trying to look at
8. The Sunrise Program is a six-week treatment program offered at the Utah State Hospital to patients with a dual diagnosis.
9. For further information, please refer to the additional material at the end of this transcript.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 16
reality. It’s taken me twenty years for me to be open to ask for a husband, and so he
came. And when he came, he said the first thing he did was look at my hands to see if I
had a ring. I looked at his hands to see if he had a ring. He’s a tall boy; he’s six-two,
hazel eyes, very intelligent. That was what attracted me the most, his mind. And I said to
him, “Well it’s Wednesday; I need a volunteer to drive the van with the patients.” And he
said, “I don’t like driving. I don’t like driving.” And I said to him, “You are going to
teach art.” He’s an artist and I said, “You need materials. Let me get a purchase order.”
Quick, oh, when can we get the materials? Oh, Saturday oh, I’ll be there with you, and I
was there. And he says to me that as I’m looking around for materials and he’s looking
around for materials, that he’s just watching me. He said that there was just an automatic
attraction. And that day I said, “Well, can you come on Mondays too, to volunteer? Can
you come on Fridays?” So, he started to come Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays, and we
started to get to know each other as if we were two kids. Two young teenagers. And it
was as if there was a glove and the hand fit in the glove. There was this understanding,
this maturity level there and this peacefulness of the relationship. That—I knew I liked
him a lot. And the girls were all, you know, my colleagues, I think he likes you, Carmen.
Are you sure? Yeah. And he said that he did not dare ask me out yet. He was doing things
very slowly and purposefully, he said. He didn’t want to, you know, push me away or say
something that I would run. And I started to ask questions to him. One of the things that
he said to me is, “You know, it’s so easy to talk to you.” It was easy to talk and open up.
I said, “You know, some people have said that to me.” (laughs) And we dated for a year,
and I got married at the state hospital, at the chapel there. And my reception was at the
gym, and I had belly dancers. Some of them were pregnant, but they were belly dancers.
(laughter) And we did it in a conference weekend. I thought nobody would show up. But
my daughter was in—what was her school’s name— Graceland University. I thought it
had to do with Elvis, but no. It is an RLDS school.10 It is an RLDS school. I thought that
it was a Baptist school. But Graceland was the name the lady who donated the land for
the university; that was the name she gave to the land—Graceland.
And I didn’t mind my daughter going there; she’s a soccer player. And that’s where she
met her husband, a soccer player and a Baptist boy. That’s been interesting. I didn’t know
that some people that belong to the Baptist Church teach their children that LDS people
are not Christian people. That kind of floored me. And I once asked them, “So (clears
throat) how does this happen in your church. Do they sit you down and teach you?” Yes,
they do. And I said, “That’s really sad because in my family there are Methodists,
Baptists, Spiritualists, Catholics, Mormons, atheist, you name it.” There’s a great deal of
respect for everyone, and there is a rule. We are not going to talk negatively about
anyone’s religion, and that’s how it’s always been. For that, you know that family
ingrained of work hard, respect others. So, she went to Graceland, but Graceland is a
beautiful little tiny University. And do they do service work. They do a lot of service
work. And to me it could be, I don’t know, whatever church it is. If they are doing service
work to help mankind, I am all for it you know. That’s where my daughter went to
school. She is brilliant. I would love for you to meet my girl. She is one of the awesomest
people. She knows graphics. She knows computers. She can sing. She’s a great momma.
10. Carmen refers to the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 17
She has this tranquility and calmness within her dealing with her babies and herself. And when I go visit—she lives in Las Vegas—the first thing I do—I don’t even ask—I go straight to the laundry room. There’s always laundry at home, right? And I start to do the laundry because she has two babies. She works as a schoolteacher, and he works as a schoolteacher, and they’re both soccer coaches. I also wanted her to learn that that’s a great value to give, to help. And I know she’s going to teach that to my granddaughter. And my granddaughter and I are like this. I love Jozy and my grandson.
There’s something that I will leave with you that a music therapist [who] went to my program. See when I say that I’ve been blessed—I said, “Can I use some of the budget and contract a music therapist for my patients?” Yes, Carmen. That person came in and many others. Then as years go by now the state hospital has a music therapist for the hospital.11 This is a song, and it is powerful, to me. What’s your name, Dawn, right?
[01:13:33]
DH: Yep.
CN: It goes, (singing) “Dawn, you are beautiful. Dawn, you are strong. Wonderful to be with, you carry us along. Dawn, you belong.” I sing that song to my grandchildren, to our patients because before they leave we do what’s called passing of the coin. They get a coin. It says Sunrise, and they get good wishes; some call it blessings, but you know we have to be politically correct—state building and all. And when you hold that coin in your hand besides saying the Serenity Prayer, you know, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. That’s a Twelve-Step Prayer. We sing that song to each one of our patients. And when you want to do it in a group like for church, I’ve sung it at church, at Relief Society.12 (singing) “Everyone, you are beautiful. Everyone, you are strong. Wonderful to be with, you carry us along. Everyone, you belong.” Very powerful song. So I hope I answered some of your questions.
MW: Are there any others that you would like to?
DH: Do you have any advice for other Utah women?
CN: Oh, other Utah women what advice—I think that one of the things is to hold on, grab on, to keep moving, to put one foot in front of the other, and to challenge negative thinking when it comes into your mind. Such as, I’m a failure, I’m no good or I’m not a good momma. I don’t have the perfect clean house. Just put one foot right in front of the other
11. Carmen is referring to Maureen Hearns, an assistant professor and director of Music Therapy at Utah State University.
12. The Relief Society is the official women's organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 18
and keep moving. Learn to speak up for yourself even when other people are around you and they might not like what you have to say. And it’s not that you are going to say something negative, it’s that you are going to speak up, and let your voice be heard. Don’t let anybody trample your voice; you are a gift on this earth. You are what helps this world run. You are the one that carries so much on your shoulders because you can work. You can take care of children, and you could help others. You could do projects. And self-care doesn’t mean to be selfish. Sometime you do need to carve out a little time out for yourself so that you can think because our minds can get clouded with so many things going on. And to stay connected. There are times in women’s live that some of them might get away from their higher power. Their Lord, their God, and they’re lost. You can become very lost and bitter, but you don’t know why that happens. Go talk to others. Go talk to somebody that you’ve met. Don’t be afraid to put things on the table. I think it’s very healthy to speak out. And if we went around with fears of, Oh if I say this about me, they’re going to use this against me. Let go of that; just keep moving. Nobody’s perfect and laugh at yourself. Don’t take yourself so seriously. Laugh. And we make mistakes every single day, right? So it’s not okay to beat up on yourself. Just say, You know what, I really, really stuck my foot in my mouth, but I’m learning from this experience and I’m moving on. And teach that to your children.
[01:18:46]
I use to teach my children relaxation therapy techniques. They still use them. All my children know this song, it’s titled, “You are Beautiful.” My grandchildren all know it. My children that are what, thirty-two, thirty-one, thirty, and twenty-eight, I sit them on my lap as old as they are today and sing that song to them. I do that. Some people can be very loving and hugging and other people grew up a little bit more—I don’t do the hugging thing too well. That’s what I would have to say. And that I know I’m blessed, and I can say that I asked the Lord for guidance. At nighttime, I ask for wisdom. I ask for strength and guidance. And there are times in my life and I say, “Okay, Lord, what is it that you would like me to do?”
And I get answers. I tell my husband sometimes, “I don’t dare ask” because let me tell you the Lord has listened to me many times. And he says, “Beware of what you ask for.” But when I ask, I get answers. I do and I get to be guided as to these are the things you need to do, Carmen. I get that and I’m grateful for that because I believe it. If I get anything lost, you know how we go. I lose my phone all the time. Family knows if you call Carmen three days in a row and she doesn’t answer, it’s not because she’s mad at you. She has lost her phone again. (laughter) My father knows that. (laughs) And you know I’ll say, “Lord, I lost the phone again. Can you help me find this?” I can honestly tell you that when I ask, He’s there for me. He helps me find whatever it is I lost. And my husband who was raised as a Baptist boy in Georgia, even in front of him he knows it. Lord, can you please, please help me. Tim has lost—I don’t know—a tool. He’s the tool man. Can you please help us find this? And we find it. And mind you, that my husband is someone that—there have been times has not believed that the Lord has existed. And he says, “Carmen, at nighttime I pray.” Okay, you’re not LDS; it doesn’t matter. Come. We pray. When I married my husband and everyone would ask me about him, and I said, Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 19
“He’s a great man.” But he’s not LDS. (clears throat) Excuse me, but the Lord sent many people into this world and into our paths for a reason and a purpose. Don’t be saddened for me; be happy. I have someone that loves me, respects me, and treats me like a queen. If I say anything, I have to be careful because he’ll already go (tapping on table) and fix something. And just like, I was just mentioning it. He’s like a child: did you notice what I did today? (laughter) Yes, I noticed because he’s retired, and he’s home all day. Did you notice? Yes, I noticed that you put a new frame on that painting. Oh, you got a great haircut. He’s like a kid, but he has such a great heart. And I asked the Lord when he sent me my husband that he’d be a generous man. And it’s really funny because I said, “Do you know that we give our money away?” We do, honestly. There’s a need. Who needs what? Here it is. And I say to him but we always have what we needed and now that we are older, it’s like, Do we need to live in this big house that’s a hard thing to clean. I don’t want to. It’s nice when the big family comes, but it’s like there are other more important things to do besides cleaning the house. And sometimes I tell him, “Well, on my deathbed I’m not going to be saying, ‘Oh, I wish I had more time to clean the office. I wish I would have had more time to clean the house.’” And I remind people.
My dad he lived in Pennsylvania, I said I wanted to go see him. Oh, our carpet is so horrendous. Dad, Pa, I come to see you. I come to love you. I don’t come to see the house and love the house. It’s you. So he knows and can calm down. And young or old when my visiting teachers—they can come to my house anytime. They don’t need to call. They’re really old, you know, and now were going over to their house because he has neuropathy on his legs. But just up until about two months ago they would come over. And if I’m home with my hair sticking out on Sunday in pajamas, Just come on in. They come in and the visiting teacher, Come on in. Just be open and not be afraid. Try to calm young women that are moms that, Oh I can’t have anyone over, this house is so—Oh, I’m so sorry. Let it go. It is not important. Well, I’ve talked too much.
MW: No, it’s been beautiful, wonderful. What a special interview. Thank you so very much.
CN: You’re welcome.
MW: We really, really appreciate your time, your wisdom. You’re a special lady. Very perfect candidate, isn’t she?
DH: Yes, she is.
[01:26:05]
End of interview
The material that follows was added to this transcript per Carmen Negron’s instructions:
One day [in] March 2003 at work, I prayed to the Lord and asked him that if wasn't going to be married again to please send me a sign. I also asked the Lord that if I were to marry to please send my future husband to my doorstep. Guess what? The following week my future husband was at my doorstep at work. He had come to do volunteer work. We both have discussed that Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 20
when we saw each other, we looked at each other’s ring finger, and there was nothing on each of us. I had him committed to come and do volunteer work three times a week instead of just one day a week.
We started to date in July 2003 and were married in 2004. My husband’s name is Timothy John Matthews. He is my best friend and pal. He supports me and also points outs things that sometimes I don't want to look at. He doesn't have children, but he inherited my four adult children and their children.
He is a Vietnam veteran, and we both serve at the Disabled American Veterans and its auxiliary. He is currently the DAV commander. I belong to the auxiliary, which also works to serve our disabled veterans. The men and women who are members of the DAV and are trained, go and help veterans to fill out paper work for our veterans to see if they qualify for benefits. There is no charge to our veterans.
I have gotten involved in many veterans’ issues due to my husband’s dedication to serving them and their families. I have served in the capacity of the chaplain for the DAV state of Utah twice. Every year for the last five years, we have collected funds at the Golden Corral, [a] restaurant in Orem, Utah. The funds are used for the veterans in Utah County. The DAV donated funds for the Veterans’ nursing home in Payson to furnish a bedroom.
I am blessed to be a part of this organization. My eyes have been opened to the needs of our veterans and their families. Our Chapter I Disabled American Veterans [in] Provo, Utah, has an office at the historical courthouse building in Provo now, thanks to the Utah County commissioners who humbly helped us to have a place to meet on a monthly basis. We meet on the second Thursday of the month on the third floor.
I am so grateful to be a woman in this country. I have value. I have my education, and I am free to serve as I wish. Knowing that this freedom has been fought for by many in our armed services, leaves me feeling that I must give back. I learned at an early age about being honorable, caring for others, trusting, helping whomever needed help, contributing to my community, respecting my elders, and knowing that whatever was going on in my life would pass. I have had many trials and tribulations from sexual abuse myself and that of my children, to growing up in a home where they sold drugs, to having many family members with HIV due to their drug abuse. The father of my children abandoned us and never paid child support—on welfare for three years. My children went through very hard times. Now I say I wouldn't change anything that has happened to me because it has made me stronger. Thank you for this opportunity to let you know about my family and I.
Please see Carmen Negron, email correspondence to Michele Welch, Director of the Utah Women’s Walk, July 9, 2013.

UTAH VALLEY UNIVERSITY
Utah Valley University Library
George Sutherland Archives & Special Collections
Oral History Program
Utah Women’s Walk Oral Histories
Directed by Michele Welch
Interview with Carmen Negron
by
Dawn Hathcock
October 5, 2011
Utah Women’s Walk
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee:
Carmen Negron
Interviewer:
Dawn Hathcock
Place of Interview:
George Sutherland Archives, UVU, Orem, Utah
Date of Interview:
5 October 2011
Recordist:
Brent Seavers
Recording Equipment:
Zoom Recorder H4n
Panasonic HD Video Camera AG-HM C709
Transcription Equipment:
Express Scribe
Transcribed by:
Raili Bjarnson
Audio Transcription Edit
Kimberly Williamson; Lisa McMullin
Reference:
CN = Carmen Negron (Interviewee)
DH = Dawn Hathcock (Interviewer)
MW = Michele Welch (Director, Utah Women’s Walk)
Brief Description of Contents:
Carmen Negron talks about her early years living in Ponce, Puerto Rico, attending elementary school in New York City, and then returning to her native country to finish her schooling. She also discusses her love for learning, teaching special education, and her desire to come to the United States to receive her master’s degree in social work. She describes the challenges of being a single mother of three boys and one daughter, bringing her young family to Utah, and the discriminations as well as abuse her children experienced in their new environment. She outlines twenty plus years of working at Utah State Hospital, meeting her second husband, and the thrill of being a grandmother. The interview reveals her life mission to help others both in her profession and in whatever way she could serve humanity best.
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as uh and false starts and starts and stops in conversations are not included in this transcript. Changes by interviewee are incorporated in text. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. Clarifications and additional information are footnoted.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 2
Audio Transcription
[00:56]
Beginning of interview
DH: It’s October 5, 2011. [I’m ] at the George Sutherland Archives at Utah Valley University. My name is Dawn Hathcock, and I’m interviewing Carmen Negron for the Utah Women’s Walk.
Where were you born?
CN: I was born in Ponce, Puerto Rico. October 3, 1955.
DH: What was the name of the town?
CN: Well, the town was named Ponce, like Ponce de Leon. I was born in the place called La Playa de Ponce, which is “the beach” of Ponce. I was surrounded by tamarind trees, mango trees, the ocean—fruit that you could pickup when you walked to go to school straight from the floor and the sugar cane fields—beautiful sugar cane.
DH: Where did you attend school?
CN: My elementary school was in New York City. I went there from first to sixth grade—half of the sixth grade. Afterwards my parents moved to their homeland, which is Puerto Rico. I was there, and I finished my sixth grade there. I did not know how to speak correct Spanish; it was really Spanglish. Instead of saying the word Cuba, which is the right word for Cuba in Spanish, I would say something really weird, and everybody around me would start to laugh. (laughs) I decided to go to the university there. I wanted to be a schoolteacher, but I really always wanted to be a social worker.
I went to a Catholic university, which was very interesting because it was peaceful, quiet, and I considered it a safe place to be. And I decided that I could not study social work there. You had to have a master’s degree, so I went into special education. I was a schoolteacher for about five to six years [in] special ed[ucation], which I really loved because I got to do things that were really exciting [and] interesting to help my students. And I had gotten married and gotten divorced there. But I always loved school. I knew I wanted to come to the States and do my master’s degree in social work. I would have not been in a social work position just with four years of a bachelor’s degree at home. You had to have a master’s. You know, it’s a tiny island, but very political. If you did not belong to the political party at the time, you could have difficulties finding a job or getting a job for the summer.
I’m very happy because I feel that I’m two in one. I love the tiny island, but I love the States. And the States is where I really got my grounding. I’ve been told that I am an Americanized Puerto Rican. I take that as (laughs) being a woman that has values that Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 3
American women have—and not that Puerto Rican women that are raised there don’t have, but I have noticed that I speak up. I’m not afraid to say, “Excuse me, I think we need to talk about that”—somebody that is willing to help the underdog, that’s me [and] sometimes without any fear.
I knew I was coming back to the States. I knew I was going to get a scholarship. I went to BYU [Brigham Young University] knocking at the doors. And I told the professors, “I’m here. I want to be a social worker. What do I need to do?” And it was interesting because I’ve always known I’m a people person. If I go somewhere with my children, they say, No, not again, because I talk to anybody and everybody: people in front of the line, people on the back of the line, or on the sides of the line. I will strike up conversation. When I went to BYU, the professors were really good. And they told me, Well, your bachelor’s degree is in special ed. If you want to go to the program, you need to have one year of prerequisites. And I said, “Okay.” At that time BYU had a scholarship called the Lamanite Scholarship. That’s because I’m a little dark you know. That’s okay, and I went and knocked at the doors, and I said, “I’m here; I need schooling.” I was alone with four children. And I was accepted and ecstatic jumping up and down and went to class. And then it was like, Where am I getting my money to go to get my master’s degree? But again, they came through. I can honestly tell you that when I went to BYU, my professors, social workers were very, very invested in the twenty of us that were in the program at that time—to graduate, to do what we needed to do. I had one of my professors take care of my four children because I had gone to the hospital to get surgery. Her name was Ann Horton. She took care of my children so that I could finish [my] coursework. I’ve been very blessed.
When I came to Utah in 1984—I can see it right now—May 26, 1984. I got to Denver, Colorado. I’m up in the escalators with four children. One of them pulls my hand, and we go boom, boom, boom, boom down the escalators. I just picked myself up and I said, “Let’s keep going.” When I came to Utah, I had a two-bedroom apartment rented for one month only. I had two mattresses one in each room. I carried a thirteen-inch black and white TV with me from home. From home, I had sent seven boxes, right? They had sheets. It is an island; it is really hot. You don’t have quilts, right, and cotton clothing. And May 26, 1984—it was really cold, very cold. And the children would have accidents on the mattresses. I was okay because I knew that I was going to make it. I knew that I had to. I was going to have to do sacrifices, but I was going to really make it. And I have always loved working with people. I’m talking too much. You keep asking questions.
DH: What was it like to emigrate from Puerto Rico?
CN: Okay, I want to say something to you. In Puerto Rico, I think the date is 1917. I think it’s seventeen or it could be fourteen. Will you check it out?1 Puerto Ricans are citizens of the United States. So when I came here, my English was really rusty. And people would laugh when I would say certain things, but I really didn’t take it personal. I just laughed
1. Carmen refers to the Jones-Shafroth Act, which conferred citizenship on Puerto Ricans in 1917.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 4
with them too because I knew that my English was rusty, and I did not want to take anything personal. I didn’t want barriers in front of me that I could not jump, go under, go over, and to move on.
I did have certain experiences when my children were wetting the bed. I had no quilts to cover them with. I used to go to a Spanish ward in Payson [Utah], and I lived in Provo.2 So, I decided to see if I could get some help in the little ward that I belonged to. When I went there, they were all men, right. My children, oh they had bad colds. Coming from really warm sunshine to it’s freezing here. Their noses were all runny. I had them all with me cleaned up, and there were like seven men. I said that I’m just asking for a little bit of help because I don’t have quilts. I have sheets, lots of them. I even put rice, which is a staple that we eat, beans, and salt in my seven boxes. I put some food in there to secure some food when I got here. It was like the Inquisition when I went there. I felt a little intimidated when you sit in front of seven guys. Somebody said to me—I don’t know what they’re called when people come here from other countries that are not citizens, sponsors, something like that. They said to me, Who brought you here? Who is your sponsor? I said, “Sir, people from Puerto Rico are citizens of the United States.” Oh, and then one person started to explain to the rest so they can all get on—it was pretty intimidating, but I didn’t let that stop me.
If I need to educate people, I will with love and care. Some people just don’t know. People from Puerto Rico got their citizenship before Native Americans. Native Americans, I think it was 1923. All I wanted to do—at the time my children all spoke Spanish; I wanted them to learn English. So I plastered everything in English all over the house on the sofa, the television, in the refrigerator, the spoon. You want to know something? When I came, it was May and I said, “Oh my goodness when December comes it’s going be a tough Christmas for me. I don’t know anybody. I don’t have family here.” [I knew] a couple of members of the Church and that’s how I got here.3
That was my thought when I came, but within a month of being here I got a job. I went through this training at the time called JTPA, Job Training Partnership Act. The man that taught there, his name is Julio Rodriguez. Julio really taught skills, and I put those skills into action. And today I teach those skills still to people. I learned that if you want to work at a certain place—guess what I always wanted to work at psychiatric hospital. I didn’t know why at the time, but ten years later I understood why. God had plans for me. He was preparing me. Okay, when I came one of the first things—I always loved school, learning is the best, and it is such a natural high. Okay, it is like, Give me more; I want to learn more and share.
That year, 1984, I had gone (knocking on table) knocking at the doors to BYU bugging people. What do I need to do? What papers do I need to do? The secretary corrected the
2. A ward is the basic ecclesiastical unit in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
3. Carmen refers to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 5
paperwork that I handed in because I knew that there were spelling errors. And you think in Spanish, and you write in English, and it’s the reverse, right. And I said, “Okay.” Sometimes when I write things, I laugh. Oh my gosh, I’m talking in Spanish there. The secretary was really good. She was a Native American. And I really think in my soul that many times there’s a connection—that people are put in your journey for a reason and a purpose. And I really think that she was there to help me. That and since I had gone to BYU and I told the people I’m here, I want to get a scholarship. I want to go to school. I wanted to go to school because I didn’t have a husband. And I knew that it was me that had to get more schooling to be able to provide better for my children. Even though with a bachelor’s degree, I couldn’t teach here. I did not have a teaching certificate. That meant you have to go to school and I didn’t want to be stuck in a low-paying job. Mind you, I have cleaned toilets. I have helped people move and be[en] paid with a washer and a dryer instead of money for me. I have helped people with different issues. I have permitted people to live at home that did not have a place to live. I was willing to do whatever, I still am.
But that year, do you want to know what happened? I had talked to the ladies at BYU. The lady that was the manager of the twelve apartments where I was living, she spoke Spanish. Oh, that was great. Oh, that was so good. That year she did a Sub-for-Santa for me and my children; so did the ladies from BYU. By the time everybody came, okay, each one of my children had like seventy-five presents each. It was galore. But they didn’t have coats, and they didn’t have boots, and I didn’t have the iron to iron. I did have the blender. I just gave the blender away the other day. I let go. I said, “You’ve been with me for twenty plus years. You served me well, and I want you to go somewhere else and serve them well.” It was very astonishing for me because I thought it was going to be a horrendous Christmas, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t. I was so grateful, and I didn’t know that it was okay—at that time I didn’t know that it was okay to give presents like coats that had been used or boots that have been used. I didn’t know that was okay. Culturally, I didn’t know that, so I learned many things. I got off on a tangent, sorry.
DH: It is absolutely fine. What is your family like?
CN: My family, I have three sons, and my youngest is my daughter, Yamilza. Yamilza is the youngest, but in the family it’s as if she is the oldest daughter because she’s the only daughter. And I struggled a lot with my children because they were darker skinned. And I never thought that would affect them, but somehow it affected them. I thought that they would have a strong hard-core skin like their mom, but they were affected. Because at the time, in 1984, if you came to Utah and you saw somebody really dark your same color, do you know what you would do? The person is over here, right and you are over here. (tapping on table) You would go to connect, “Hi, how are you? What are you doing? Where are you from?” Today it’s different. Today you have all shades of brown, and blue, and pink, but at that time, it was really tough to find people the same color of your skin.
For me, I have been raised in New York City around a lot of different people. I could adjust and adapt easily, but my children had a little bit of a harder time. And my boys had Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 6
struggles. My boys really, really struggled. My boys had me—in Spanish it’s (speaking Spanish) “they had me on a skate.” Always going, going because they started to get in trouble, okay. They started not wanting to go to school. I thought if I give them the example of going to school [and] working. But they didn’t have a dad, and they didn’t have anybody, for that matter. That was rough. Even though I put on a strong face, and I kept plugging in there no matter what, my children weren’t me, and they had great struggles.
I don’t know how open I should be about their struggles. I’m never afraid to talk to anyone about my family, but my family definitely is not perfect. I can’t go around telling the world that my four children all went to college, and they are high upstanding citizens. I think they’re on their way though. I’ve always believed that. The three boys were all athletes. They played baseball, and they have skills. And my oldest, Carlos, decided that he wanted to experiment with sex. So at age sixteen his girlfriend got pregnant and that was really hard. Because as a social worker, as someone that was working in the drug and alcohol field, I made sure that I took my children to programs that were called Just Say No—prevention programs. There was a program at BYU; it was a wellness program. It was for families that were struggling and were having troubles with their children. And at the time that was really hard. That was a baby having a baby. And that just was so rough.
My second boy, Heny H-e-n-y, there’s not too many people with that name, had great struggles. I didn’t know at the time. When they were teenagers, I joined the Tough Love program. I don’t know if you know about it, but Tough Love is a program where parents got together and help each other out with all the struggles that they were having. They would have a group for the parents and a group for the teenagers. And there was a lady in charge for the group for the teenagers that was a foster mother, so she knew a lot of things.
I had taken my children there. So, my boy Heny started to get out of control and as a social worker my mind starts to work. I said to myself and I asked him, “Have you been abused sexually?” And he said, “No.” But it’s not uncommon for boys to deny being sexually abused, and he started to have troubles. I went to truancy school three times. Two of them were in detention, twice or three times.
My boy, Johnny at sixteen got really depressed, and we didn’t know, and he had gotten his girlfriend pregnant. And you start to feel like a failure, you know. But I also knew that I had taught my children well—that they made choices and that’s not an excuse. But what happened was even tougher. He came down with schizophrenia, and when that happened, I knew why I always wanted to work in a psychiatric hospital. The Lord was preparing me for what was to come.
And my son Heny, the second boy—let’s see when was this. Maybe five years ago it comes out that his sixth grade teacher had been sexually abusing him. She taught at—what’s that beautiful elementary school here in Provo that we went to? The name doesn’t come to mind, but I’ll tell you part of what happened. [She] was really good to us. She knew I was a single parent. She knew I was struggling. She would come around andUtah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 7
befriend us. Sunset Elementary, that’s the school. When my kid was in school, Patti Harrington was the principal of Sunset Elementary. I love her. She’s very loving and caring. But when this comes out, my son was involved taking drugs really bad. And you know, we believed him. And I know that there was something that my gut was telling me at the time—he went into sixth grade and [she] was his teacher—that something was not right. In fact, this teacher was behaving as if she were a jealous girlfriend from my son’s girlfriend. And that was really, really rough. You know, when something like that comes out in the community there is always people that say, This person could’ve never done that. And then there’s the people that say, Yes, this happened, and these were the signs besides the person that’s the victim. When we went to the county—the court to see the—what’s the name of the person that you see there?
[26:08]
The attorney. My son sat right next to me and started to tell what had happened. And as he sat, right next to me he was describing everything in that bedroom, where everything was at. And his tone of voice wasn’t that of a twenty some year-old man; it was that of a sixth-grade kid. And you could see all the descriptions, the impact that had on him. I always told this boy, I said, “Oh my gosh, you give me a run for my money. But I know what’s going to happen. Years from now after you’ve done all the things that you have wanted to do. We are going to have a family reunion; you’re going to be there, and family is going to be around. And they are going to laugh at some of the things that you have done. But you will surpass this. You will be a good man, a better man, and the family is going to be there all together saying, ‘Do you remember when you did da-da-du?’”
My boys really, really got into a lot of trouble. I love them. That’s true. I was a tough mom. I thought I had to be really tough with them. I wasn’t the type of mom that would say, “Not my son.” To the contrary, they would be guilty first, and then we would try to prove their innocence because I knew them. And this boy just came out of prison. He did a year in prison because of meth. He got hooked on meth, and you would not recognize this man. When people use meth, there’s no fat in their face. They just are sucked in, you know, and they’re so skinny and gaunt looking. But as a mom, when he started to get into trouble because they have this magical thinking that’s not going to happen to me. But that’s not true. And in one year, I think he went to jail like seven times, and I said, “Son, you need to see your probation officer.” And this is what he would say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.” One time he comes home and he is talking and his eyes are bulging out and I look at myself—I got married seven years ago. I’m so grateful. Oh, yes I’m so grateful. I have to tell you the story about that one.
My son came through the door; he was like they say in the drug culture “spazzing out.” And I saw him and I said, “This is my opportunity. I’m going to call his probation officer so they can take him to jail and he can live,” because it was a matter of saving his life. That wasn’t easy to do. Not all parents dare to do this. It’s so painful. But I did it, and the probation officers came to my living room and put the handcuffs on him in the back. Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 8
Mom, [I] can’t believe you did that to me bla-bla. I said, “Son, it is to save your life,” and he left.
And after I don’t know how many months he was in there, he tells me, “You know, Mom, you did the right thing. Thank you.” And we thought, Hey he’s going to make it (laughs), but it didn’t happen that way. He has a big history. He has had so much pain in his life. At age nineteen, he got stabbed. He got stabbed because he was with the wrong people, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, but the Lord was with him. When they were building the East Bay area, I guess the young people at the time would rent rooms in those motels, drink, and do their thing. Sell drugs, buy drugs, have sex. And he was with another young man that we knew, and somehow they got into a scuffle, and I think he was the one who created the mess. And later on they made a phone call to get a hold of him, and they set up a nice ambush where like seven kids came. They fought. He was a fighter. He no longer is; he’s turning thirty-two, and he says, “Mom, I’m getting old.” And I’m like, Hallelujah, brothers and sisters. (laughter) You are not going to give me this strife anymore. They fought and the friend that was with him ran off—left him there. And between seven—one specific young man stabbed him four or five times. And his intestines were out of his body, and he was holding on to them running through the area, and knocked at somebody’s door, and they opened and they called the ambulance. And for that I am so grateful.
There’s something else. Later on when his girlfriend got pregnant, his baby was born how? with his intestines out of his body. And I said to him, “Wow.” And those are those genetic things that happen. Primary Children’s within a day or so put that back in there. He’s a sweet boy and he looks just like his father. And I told his dad, “Boy are you going to pay for some.” (laughter) My son Heny—I see that out of all my children—him and the one that has schizophrenia has suffered a lot. Suffering is part of life; it’s what makes us stronger. And I know that at the end of it all, they will be better people.
Ah, this is one thing I tell them, so if they would want to argue with me, I said, “Excuse me, in the preexistence you guys chose me as your mom” And I said, “I’ll be your mother. I’ll be your mom, your mom, and your mom. You chose me and I chose you, so you’re stuck.” And then they would calm down quickly (laughs) and they don’t start to do their ruckus. You chose me remember that? So they calm down. Oh, yes, we did choose you, Mom, and that’s how I got here.
It’s been quite interesting. I’m so happy that I’m fifty-six and not twenty-three because as years have gone by, I am now happy. I don’t think I was happy for many years. And it had to do with poverty. And it had to do with not having a dad for the children, not having a grandma around or a grandpa. Not doing those celebrations, but guess what? Now we have that for the grandkids. And my children really see that now. And you know when you turn fourteen and you sometimes think that you know more than your mom and your dad? We’ve all gone through that. As my children have gotten older, they have come to me and said, Oh, Mom, man, were we lost, huh? We thought we knew it all. And they do come and appreciate all the struggles that we went through—when all the sacrifices and all the teachings that were done.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 9
It’s not uncommon if your children are sexually abused, usually moms have been sexually abused too, okay. And that’s something that happened to me. When you don’t know—I think the Lord really guides you for your healing and love and repentance. Although, I’ve always considered myself to be one of God’s rebellious children; I have. I’m not perfect. I was raised somewhere else. I’m a convert. I’ve questioned certain things sometimes and not because I am a bad woman or I want to be a bad person or anything like that. It’s the experiences that I brought with me were what gave me the shade as to looking at things. But that also has given me great empathy for people. For that, I wouldn’t change how I grew up for anything in this world. Believe me I wouldn’t. What other questions do you have?
[36:08]
DH: What is it like working at the Utah State Hospital and running the seminary’s program there?
CN: Oh, I am blessed. I went to the hospital and got hired. I think it was October 27, 1990, so I’ve been working there—this October it’s twenty years. When I would drive when the kids were little, I would say, “I’m going home to my children.” I was going to work. The hospital has been home. The hospital has many excellent people [who are] loving carrying. And you can get free therapy anytime of the day because the great majority of the people there are psychologists and social workers. The psychiatrists, if you have a problem, you can (knocking on table) knock at any one of their doors and they open the doors for you to sit down and talk to you and give you guidance. And that has been the place where I have grown professionally. I laugh when I look back twenty years ago and I would write a social history. I would write in English, The mother said, “Da-ta-da-ta,” and that is a translation from Spanish. (speaking Spanish) I was like, Oh, my gosh, when somebody reads that and says, Carmen Negron wrote that. Oh, my gosh, but that was in my beginning years.
As the years went by, I started to work on the forensic unit. Forensic is for people who have been accused of crimes. And there are people there that have gone already to court and have been adjudicated and have been moved there for treatment. We have people there that are not guilty by reason of insanity. There are not too many of those. That’s a very small, tiny, insy-whinsy percentage of people that have that. What do you call it— adjudication. And then there are people there that have been accused of all the crimes that you can believe. [For example] a mentally old-person is walking without shoes breaking into somebody’s house because they want to get warm and they want to eat. And they take them to jail, and in jail they notice he’s talking to the walls. He’s talking to unseen others. He doesn’t belong here or she. So, they’ll send them to the hospital for an evaluation, a competency evaluation. I worked on the forensic unit for eight years first as a social worker. And I didn’t know this is and what I said [is], “I grew there.” As a beginner social worker, I thought when people come and they have problems we’re there to help them resolve and break through. I was told, No, you’re not here for that. You’re here to evaluate only. You’re not here to do treatment. That was hard because you go to Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 10
school to get your master’s degree, and I’m going to help people. And all of the sudden that was like—whoa. I’m just going to evaluate. How about these issues that happened to this person, and they are in so much pain. No, that’s not for us to do right now, so that took me a while to learn. But I had fun. I taught the patients how to dance the Macarena.
When the Macarena came, you know that dance; the men didn’t know their left foot from their right foot. So I would bring lady patients from one unit so that they can learn how to appropriately dance with a woman and know which was the left foot. You know, that was so much fun. I had the ability of making Rice Krispie treats without having a knife because it wasn’t permitted.
I brought people from BYU to set up a program for forensic to bring live music to forensic because the forensic people were locked in. They couldn’t go out to get fresh air. They’re locked-in, and when you have thirty men locked in a small space, some of them are going to create great troubles. But overall, I can honestly tell you that they will behave also by the way that you treat them. Okay, and I would look at their talents and put those talents to work. Who knows how to sew? Oh you do, okay I need you to sew the curtains that will go from here to there. One Saturday we were painting (laughs) one of the psychiatrist’s offices on a Saturday. And the people would see me at work, What do you want, Carmen? Well I need paint, and I need the ladder, and I need paint brushes because there’s always regulations that you have to follow [and] I had been (knocking on table) knocking and bothering everybody. And one Saturday we painted Dr. Peter Heinbecker’s office. He’s a Notre Dame fan. You should see what they would do to him. They put a lot of stuff from BYU in his office, you know. But he’s a good sport and a great man. And on the forensic unit, when I went to work there were five men, and I was the only women. So I was with the boys, but then again when I grew up, I grew up with boys, and that was good for me. That was very, very good.
They say it’s a man’s world, you know, I can buy that, but I’ll stand up to any man, honestly. I know how to be assertive. I know what I want, and I know how to work hard. And I know that if you told me no, you can’t do that, I am going to show you that yes, I can. Working on the forensic unit for eight years was excellent. I got to do things that other people don’t do.
I went to a conference; there were Native Americans. I’ve always wanted to learn from different cultures and different backgrounds. This is my joke; I went to a Catholic university and did my bachelor’s degree. I went to a Mormon university and did my master’s.4 I need to go to a Jewish university and do my doctorate’s degree. But I don’t have one close by so, we’ll see what happens. (laughter)
At eight years I had a couple of students come through, and my boss who loves me—oh my gosh—I am so grateful that the Lord put him in my path. His name is Dallas
4. The Mormon Church is the unofficial, but common name for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Brigham Young University is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 11
Earnshaw. Dallas Earnshaw is the superintendent of the state hospital right now.5 But at
the time when I was working on the forensic unit he was there as an administrative
director. And I would think of things, and I would go and sit down with him and say,
“What do you think if we did this, this, and this?” He would say, “That sounds good,
Carmen. What do you need?” “Well I need a purchase order to get this, this, and this.”
And he made it possible for me to do things that are creative that would help my patients.
We would do Spanish classes, painting classes, music classes—all kinds of things on the
forensic unit.
After eight years, I was offered to run a drug and alcohol program, which for two and a
half years before I came to the hospital I had worked at The Gathering Place.6 And at The
Gathering Place—I went there April ’88 until October 1990—there I worked with kids in
the school setting. You know, I laugh because Utah County at that time would think, Ah,
you are going to Spanish Fork to the Landmark Independence High School? Ah, do you
know what kind of kids are there? And I said, “Rebellious ones? Ah, well.” That’s one of
my best experiences in my life. The boys, I would run groups with boys only, girls only,
or girls and boys together. My best groups—number one were boys only because here I
had my boys with their mohawks, their chains, and their leather jackets. And the rough
and tough [boys] sitting in a group with me talking from their heart. Honestly, with teary
eyes and they were just young children. No matter if they were six-four and they might
have had a potty mouth outside of the community. And that intimacy with those boys, it
was time for healing. And that was something that I will never forget. And the girls were
good too. The only issue was every time you went there it was, Ah, Carmen, I think I’m
pregnant. Carmen, this bad thing happened to me this weekend. I know some of it really
did happen. Bad things really did happen. I’ve had some adult patients that were my
students when I was younger working with them.
[46:58]
You give love, care, respect, [and] hope. My philosophy is the following: I came into this
world to do everything that I could to help anyone that the Lord put in my path.
Anyone—doesn’t matter who. And my hopes are that I will give them the best that I
have. Because I don’t know when I get to be old, old woman, I know one of them is most
likely going to come up in my life. I believe that. And I have told all my patients, “You
never know, you might be the one taking care of me when I’m this little, old lady in the
psychiatric unit or in a nursing home. And I will kick and scream and say, ‘I’m not taking
those meds, no, no, no.’” They all laugh, but the hospital has been home for me.
The hospital is home. I have like five years, almost six to retire. And I’ve said to myself,
This is like having a baby, raising the baby, going through its hardships and the teenage
years, and then breaking away when they have to leave the house. You know, some
people leave with love (makes kissing noises) and care, and it’s going to be okay. Others
fight with their parents to individuate. And I’ve said to myself, I don’t need to fight. I
5. Carmen refers to the Utah State Hospital located in Provo, Utah.
6. Located in Orem, Utah, The Gathering Place is a substance abuse treatment facility.
Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 12
know that my time will come when I have to leave home, move on. But home is the state hospital. That’s one of the best places there is.
It’s saddening that people don’t understand mental illness. It’s saddening that they use the words crazy or they see somebody that is on a manic high. They think that they’re on drugs, but they’re not; they’re very manic. And still people in the community don’t understand mental illness. That hurts; that truly hurts. It hurts too when it’s hard for families to accept that there is mental illness in the family. When my child came down with schizophrenia, my daughter understood, but the oldest boy Carlos—Carlos and Heny—they couldn’t accept it. They have accepted it now. Johnny is thirty and this happened from age sixteen until now.
And by the way, he is at the state hospital right now, in treatment. I’m grateful; I’m so grateful that he’s there because I know the kind of work that we do. Is it the perfect place? There’s no such thing. Perfection is work in progress.
I don’t know what other things would you like to know.
DH: Who were the women you admire the most while growing up and do you still admire them even now?
CN: Oh, I should have brought Grandma here. I brought my grandmother that is ninety-one years old from Puerto Rico last year. She loves to travel. (laughs) She is awesome. My grandmother, her name is Patria Negron. My grandma in my family was the carpenter, the electrician, the painter. She sews, the sewer, and the businesswomen. My grandma is the banker in the family. She is a very poor person with material things, but the richness that she has, Donald Trump doesn't get to her ankles. My grandmother [is a] very strong woman, and just last year I learned from her why Grandma was so tough. Her skin—tough skin—and Grandmother told me that she was fourteen years old when her dad died. She has two more sisters, and they are still alive. And the three of them are widows. (laughs) And they are a hoot and different. Grandma’s very serious. She was the oldest and had to be in charge of everything, but now Grandma is a little bit looser, you know. And Grandma said, “When my dad died I was fourteen. My other sister was—” My other aunt is say is eighty-five; so she was four, five years older and younger the second one. And then the baby had been born and was a couple of months old.
She can cook, Hilda; I brought her last year from Puerto Rico and my grandmother that is ninety-one and my cousin Lola. I said, “Lola, you have to come because I don’t know if I will be able to have time off. You can take care of our old ladies because you know what they eat in the morning; you can make that; everything will be in the home.” And she came. She didn’t have to pay for an airplane ticket. I sent for them. I tell my husband, “My roots are very important to me.”
Her mom Abuela Carmen, she died like sixteen or seventeen years ago, and I knew her and her mother, Abuela Antonia, okay I knew her when I was four or five years old, and I remember her. One of my cousins was her favorite. (laughs) And I just remember her Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 13
buying—there were these penny candies, and my cousin, his name is Tebol. Tebol. “Yes, Grandma,” and she would get these candies. Okay, Carmen, you have a little bit of this; you have a little bit of that. And there were a lot of grandkids around, great-grandkids. So my grandchildren are the fifth generation in my family. But my mom just passed last year.
But my grandmother when she came, oh my gosh, I rented two wheelchairs for the elderly. Grandma, she looks Indian. You know there were Taino Indians in Puerto Rico. She is cinnamon color, and her hair now is white, but very long. And I say, “Grandma, you can’t walk like you used to.” And her sister’s really skinny and tall. (laughs) And I said, “Hilda, I know you can move.” She’s like attention deficit disorder. (laughs). Grandma and her are always fighting. It is really funny; two sisters, you know, seventy-seven and ninety-one bickering with each other. The family looks at them and says, Are you guys arguing again? They wanted to watch TV, and they fall asleep, and one bugs the other, Hey, hey, get up. I’m fine; I’m just watching TV, and the other one does the same. Very strong, strong women.
I admire her and my great-grandmother, Carmen. And when I say my prayers, I talk to my great-grandma. And I talk to my family members that have passed on. Like when my kids were out of control, I would always, always pray and ask them to watch over them and guide them. Because I know that as a mom, they were not listening to me. But it’s the same as when there are people put in my path that I help those children [that] didn’t listen to their parents either. So, that’s one of the women is my grandma. My grandmother, used to sew, took care of me when I was little. She always had a little business selling candy, and they made these sandwiches out of hot dog buns. They’re good okay, really good stuff. So, she’s the mover and the shaker. There was a rule, if you got a loan from grandma, and you did not pay her back, that was it. You would never ever again get a loan because grandma was not going to permit such a thing. And you didn’t have to pay any interest.
And my great-grandma Carmen, she was little; my legs are skinny like hers. I love frosting on the cake just like her. I love to dance just like her, and I carry her name. My grandma told me that when she was fourteen, [my] grandma had to go and clean people’s houses to get a plate of food for her and her three daughters. So, I really come from a strong line of women. And I am so grateful and that they believed in me like when I was coming to Utah, my grandmother said, “You’re not going to have any problems girl. It’s going to be okay.” And I always had a voice at Grandma’s house. Every day at five, six o’clock, before they would eat, we would sit and discuss politics, and that was a hoot because we had our Democrats; we had our Republicans; we had our Independents, and we had the ones that said, We don’t care. But it wasn’t vicious; it was we can talk politics. That’s something that I really, really loved, and they always said for us to go to school and learn. Go get an education. And I always talk to my great-grandma. That’s something that I’ve never stopped doing.
[58:10]Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 14
DH: Are there any words of wisdom or maxims you live your life by?
CN: Say that again.
DH: Are there any words of wisdom or maxims you live your life by?
MW: Like a model, a life model, or a scripture, or anything that represents you.
CN: The Lord loves me no matter what. That has always been with me. The Lord loves me no matter what. No matter if, my children didn’t do what was asked. No matter what’s going on in my life, the Lord loves me, no matter what. This too shall pass. I’m here for a reason and a purpose. And I’m always open to learning.
I forgot to tell you about my daughter, Yamilza. Yamilza is a schoolteacher. She has two beautiful, adorable children, a one-year girl Jozy and a boy Dezmond. I said, “Did Dezmond come out of Lost?”7 You know, if you ever saw Lost, there was a Desmond. And those children when I look at them, my thoughts are this is my opportunity to be even a better a parent, a grandparent.
And to love my daughter the way I’ve always loved her. We have a very strong bond, and she is an awesome woman. And I know I taught her well because I see it in the things that she does. You know, it’s fun to do Sub for Santa for others quietly, collect, and go. I belong to the Disabled American Veterans Auxiliary organization. Tonight we meet, and it’s a great organization. Where two years ago—I’ve done a lot of things.
I collect clothing for the poor, and I’ve been doing that for twenty years. It’s a lot of fun. Some clothing goes to Mexico and some clothing stays here, or goes to a Baptist church, or anybody that needs it. At the hospital, there’s a clothing center, and the overflow, they pass it on to me, and then I distribute it. (laughs) It’s great to do that type of work. I was sixteen years old when I had my own girls club in Puerto Rico where we collected food for the poor. In seventh grade, I was making Kool-Aid and selling sandwiches to make money to help others. When Roberto Clemente died, the famous baseball player from Puerto Rico, he died because his plane was overloaded with clothing that was going— I can’t remember if it was going to Guatemala or the Dominican Republic—one of those places. I was collecting clothing in my (unintelligible word) and I wrote very clearly, “I do not want stained clothing. I do not want broken zippers. I do not want clothing that has no buttons. That’s not what I need.” The Lord has permitted me to do really grass roots things that are really powerful, and for that I am grateful. Very grateful. And I’ll keep doing it because well, when you do this type of thing it’s—now when I say, I want to retire it’s not because I am going to be rocking in a chair at home. I’m going to be doing things. It’s important. Last year this little old lady sewed eight hundred of those, what do you call them? To put candy in, the little sacks.
MW: Oh, stockings.
7. Desmond is a character in the television series Lost.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 15
CN: Stockings, um-hm, and she couldn’t see very well. So they distributed everything, and we looked at it and said it’s a good job. Just turn it inside out and put certain things on it, and those were all shipped out to soldiers. I’ve learned more about the military because I’m married to a veteran. I didn’t tell you. I have to tell you the story.
MW: Yes. Tell us about—
CN: My husband?
MW: Yes, and even back when you were first married and your four children. Do you mind telling that?
[01:03:28]
CN: Sure. The first time I married, I was this young naïve young woman. I grew up in a home where they sold drugs. There were drug raids. I thought I was supposed to marry a man that had drug problems so that I could help him, you know. So that’s exactly what I did, and I tried to help my husband at the time. I got him enrolled at the university, but he went drinking, and he dropped out. He only worked once doing some kind of insurance.
And for twenty years, he didn’t have contact with his kids. There was no child support, no birthday presents, no Christmas cards, nothing. When I could get a hold of him, I would say, “You know something, your children need you.” And I waited for him for about twelve years to see if he, in New York, would clean up his act. He had wanted me to go there, and I said, “Nope. I’m not going there; I want to stay here.” I thought it would be better for my children they could be alive here than in New York. And he got clean and sober at age forty-five. Right now and he was just here this past year, and I shared my children with him. Whereas seven years ago when I got married—I couldn’t do that.
Seven years ago, I’m at work—it’s called the Sunrise Program.8 I’m there, and I’m saying, “Lord, if it’s meant to be that I marry will You please send me a sign. And if it’s meant that I not marry, let me know still.” The following week my husband was in front of the Sunrise door.9 He came to do volunteer work. The Lord sent him to me, and that’s not all. Before I even asked for a husband I said, “Lord, I would like to have a husband. Could he please not have children?” I just went through (clears throat) with my four children. And I don’t think that I could handle adult children becoming jealous of me as a human being. And I have still all of my children. Could you please send him without children? I’m not being, egoísta “selfish.” I’m not being selfish; I’m just trying to look at
8. The Sunrise Program is a six-week treatment program offered at the Utah State Hospital to patients with a dual diagnosis.
9. For further information, please refer to the additional material at the end of this transcript.Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 16
reality. It’s taken me twenty years for me to be open to ask for a husband, and so he
came. And when he came, he said the first thing he did was look at my hands to see if I
had a ring. I looked at his hands to see if he had a ring. He’s a tall boy; he’s six-two,
hazel eyes, very intelligent. That was what attracted me the most, his mind. And I said to
him, “Well it’s Wednesday; I need a volunteer to drive the van with the patients.” And he
said, “I don’t like driving. I don’t like driving.” And I said to him, “You are going to
teach art.” He’s an artist and I said, “You need materials. Let me get a purchase order.”
Quick, oh, when can we get the materials? Oh, Saturday oh, I’ll be there with you, and I
was there. And he says to me that as I’m looking around for materials and he’s looking
around for materials, that he’s just watching me. He said that there was just an automatic
attraction. And that day I said, “Well, can you come on Mondays too, to volunteer? Can
you come on Fridays?” So, he started to come Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays, and we
started to get to know each other as if we were two kids. Two young teenagers. And it
was as if there was a glove and the hand fit in the glove. There was this understanding,
this maturity level there and this peacefulness of the relationship. That—I knew I liked
him a lot. And the girls were all, you know, my colleagues, I think he likes you, Carmen.
Are you sure? Yeah. And he said that he did not dare ask me out yet. He was doing things
very slowly and purposefully, he said. He didn’t want to, you know, push me away or say
something that I would run. And I started to ask questions to him. One of the things that
he said to me is, “You know, it’s so easy to talk to you.” It was easy to talk and open up.
I said, “You know, some people have said that to me.” (laughs) And we dated for a year,
and I got married at the state hospital, at the chapel there. And my reception was at the
gym, and I had belly dancers. Some of them were pregnant, but they were belly dancers.
(laughter) And we did it in a conference weekend. I thought nobody would show up. But
my daughter was in—what was her school’s name— Graceland University. I thought it
had to do with Elvis, but no. It is an RLDS school.10 It is an RLDS school. I thought that
it was a Baptist school. But Graceland was the name the lady who donated the land for
the university; that was the name she gave to the land—Graceland.
And I didn’t mind my daughter going there; she’s a soccer player. And that’s where she
met her husband, a soccer player and a Baptist boy. That’s been interesting. I didn’t know
that some people that belong to the Baptist Church teach their children that LDS people
are not Christian people. That kind of floored me. And I once asked them, “So (clears
throat) how does this happen in your church. Do they sit you down and teach you?” Yes,
they do. And I said, “That’s really sad because in my family there are Methodists,
Baptists, Spiritualists, Catholics, Mormons, atheist, you name it.” There’s a great deal of
respect for everyone, and there is a rule. We are not going to talk negatively about
anyone’s religion, and that’s how it’s always been. For that, you know that family
ingrained of work hard, respect others. So, she went to Graceland, but Graceland is a
beautiful little tiny University. And do they do service work. They do a lot of service
work. And to me it could be, I don’t know, whatever church it is. If they are doing service
work to help mankind, I am all for it you know. That’s where my daughter went to
school. She is brilliant. I would love for you to meet my girl. She is one of the awesomest
people. She knows graphics. She knows computers. She can sing. She’s a great momma.
10. Carmen refers to the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 17
She has this tranquility and calmness within her dealing with her babies and herself. And when I go visit—she lives in Las Vegas—the first thing I do—I don’t even ask—I go straight to the laundry room. There’s always laundry at home, right? And I start to do the laundry because she has two babies. She works as a schoolteacher, and he works as a schoolteacher, and they’re both soccer coaches. I also wanted her to learn that that’s a great value to give, to help. And I know she’s going to teach that to my granddaughter. And my granddaughter and I are like this. I love Jozy and my grandson.
There’s something that I will leave with you that a music therapist [who] went to my program. See when I say that I’ve been blessed—I said, “Can I use some of the budget and contract a music therapist for my patients?” Yes, Carmen. That person came in and many others. Then as years go by now the state hospital has a music therapist for the hospital.11 This is a song, and it is powerful, to me. What’s your name, Dawn, right?
[01:13:33]
DH: Yep.
CN: It goes, (singing) “Dawn, you are beautiful. Dawn, you are strong. Wonderful to be with, you carry us along. Dawn, you belong.” I sing that song to my grandchildren, to our patients because before they leave we do what’s called passing of the coin. They get a coin. It says Sunrise, and they get good wishes; some call it blessings, but you know we have to be politically correct—state building and all. And when you hold that coin in your hand besides saying the Serenity Prayer, you know, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. That’s a Twelve-Step Prayer. We sing that song to each one of our patients. And when you want to do it in a group like for church, I’ve sung it at church, at Relief Society.12 (singing) “Everyone, you are beautiful. Everyone, you are strong. Wonderful to be with, you carry us along. Everyone, you belong.” Very powerful song. So I hope I answered some of your questions.
MW: Are there any others that you would like to?
DH: Do you have any advice for other Utah women?
CN: Oh, other Utah women what advice—I think that one of the things is to hold on, grab on, to keep moving, to put one foot in front of the other, and to challenge negative thinking when it comes into your mind. Such as, I’m a failure, I’m no good or I’m not a good momma. I don’t have the perfect clean house. Just put one foot right in front of the other
11. Carmen is referring to Maureen Hearns, an assistant professor and director of Music Therapy at Utah State University.
12. The Relief Society is the official women's organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 18
and keep moving. Learn to speak up for yourself even when other people are around you and they might not like what you have to say. And it’s not that you are going to say something negative, it’s that you are going to speak up, and let your voice be heard. Don’t let anybody trample your voice; you are a gift on this earth. You are what helps this world run. You are the one that carries so much on your shoulders because you can work. You can take care of children, and you could help others. You could do projects. And self-care doesn’t mean to be selfish. Sometime you do need to carve out a little time out for yourself so that you can think because our minds can get clouded with so many things going on. And to stay connected. There are times in women’s live that some of them might get away from their higher power. Their Lord, their God, and they’re lost. You can become very lost and bitter, but you don’t know why that happens. Go talk to others. Go talk to somebody that you’ve met. Don’t be afraid to put things on the table. I think it’s very healthy to speak out. And if we went around with fears of, Oh if I say this about me, they’re going to use this against me. Let go of that; just keep moving. Nobody’s perfect and laugh at yourself. Don’t take yourself so seriously. Laugh. And we make mistakes every single day, right? So it’s not okay to beat up on yourself. Just say, You know what, I really, really stuck my foot in my mouth, but I’m learning from this experience and I’m moving on. And teach that to your children.
[01:18:46]
I use to teach my children relaxation therapy techniques. They still use them. All my children know this song, it’s titled, “You are Beautiful.” My grandchildren all know it. My children that are what, thirty-two, thirty-one, thirty, and twenty-eight, I sit them on my lap as old as they are today and sing that song to them. I do that. Some people can be very loving and hugging and other people grew up a little bit more—I don’t do the hugging thing too well. That’s what I would have to say. And that I know I’m blessed, and I can say that I asked the Lord for guidance. At nighttime, I ask for wisdom. I ask for strength and guidance. And there are times in my life and I say, “Okay, Lord, what is it that you would like me to do?”
And I get answers. I tell my husband sometimes, “I don’t dare ask” because let me tell you the Lord has listened to me many times. And he says, “Beware of what you ask for.” But when I ask, I get answers. I do and I get to be guided as to these are the things you need to do, Carmen. I get that and I’m grateful for that because I believe it. If I get anything lost, you know how we go. I lose my phone all the time. Family knows if you call Carmen three days in a row and she doesn’t answer, it’s not because she’s mad at you. She has lost her phone again. (laughter) My father knows that. (laughs) And you know I’ll say, “Lord, I lost the phone again. Can you help me find this?” I can honestly tell you that when I ask, He’s there for me. He helps me find whatever it is I lost. And my husband who was raised as a Baptist boy in Georgia, even in front of him he knows it. Lord, can you please, please help me. Tim has lost—I don’t know—a tool. He’s the tool man. Can you please help us find this? And we find it. And mind you, that my husband is someone that—there have been times has not believed that the Lord has existed. And he says, “Carmen, at nighttime I pray.” Okay, you’re not LDS; it doesn’t matter. Come. We pray. When I married my husband and everyone would ask me about him, and I said, Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 19
“He’s a great man.” But he’s not LDS. (clears throat) Excuse me, but the Lord sent many people into this world and into our paths for a reason and a purpose. Don’t be saddened for me; be happy. I have someone that loves me, respects me, and treats me like a queen. If I say anything, I have to be careful because he’ll already go (tapping on table) and fix something. And just like, I was just mentioning it. He’s like a child: did you notice what I did today? (laughter) Yes, I noticed because he’s retired, and he’s home all day. Did you notice? Yes, I noticed that you put a new frame on that painting. Oh, you got a great haircut. He’s like a kid, but he has such a great heart. And I asked the Lord when he sent me my husband that he’d be a generous man. And it’s really funny because I said, “Do you know that we give our money away?” We do, honestly. There’s a need. Who needs what? Here it is. And I say to him but we always have what we needed and now that we are older, it’s like, Do we need to live in this big house that’s a hard thing to clean. I don’t want to. It’s nice when the big family comes, but it’s like there are other more important things to do besides cleaning the house. And sometimes I tell him, “Well, on my deathbed I’m not going to be saying, ‘Oh, I wish I had more time to clean the office. I wish I would have had more time to clean the house.’” And I remind people.
My dad he lived in Pennsylvania, I said I wanted to go see him. Oh, our carpet is so horrendous. Dad, Pa, I come to see you. I come to love you. I don’t come to see the house and love the house. It’s you. So he knows and can calm down. And young or old when my visiting teachers—they can come to my house anytime. They don’t need to call. They’re really old, you know, and now were going over to their house because he has neuropathy on his legs. But just up until about two months ago they would come over. And if I’m home with my hair sticking out on Sunday in pajamas, Just come on in. They come in and the visiting teacher, Come on in. Just be open and not be afraid. Try to calm young women that are moms that, Oh I can’t have anyone over, this house is so—Oh, I’m so sorry. Let it go. It is not important. Well, I’ve talked too much.
MW: No, it’s been beautiful, wonderful. What a special interview. Thank you so very much.
CN: You’re welcome.
MW: We really, really appreciate your time, your wisdom. You’re a special lady. Very perfect candidate, isn’t she?
DH: Yes, she is.
[01:26:05]
End of interview
The material that follows was added to this transcript per Carmen Negron’s instructions:
One day [in] March 2003 at work, I prayed to the Lord and asked him that if wasn't going to be married again to please send me a sign. I also asked the Lord that if I were to marry to please send my future husband to my doorstep. Guess what? The following week my future husband was at my doorstep at work. He had come to do volunteer work. We both have discussed that Utah Women’s Walk: Carmen Negron 20
when we saw each other, we looked at each other’s ring finger, and there was nothing on each of us. I had him committed to come and do volunteer work three times a week instead of just one day a week.
We started to date in July 2003 and were married in 2004. My husband’s name is Timothy John Matthews. He is my best friend and pal. He supports me and also points outs things that sometimes I don't want to look at. He doesn't have children, but he inherited my four adult children and their children.
He is a Vietnam veteran, and we both serve at the Disabled American Veterans and its auxiliary. He is currently the DAV commander. I belong to the auxiliary, which also works to serve our disabled veterans. The men and women who are members of the DAV and are trained, go and help veterans to fill out paper work for our veterans to see if they qualify for benefits. There is no charge to our veterans.
I have gotten involved in many veterans’ issues due to my husband’s dedication to serving them and their families. I have served in the capacity of the chaplain for the DAV state of Utah twice. Every year for the last five years, we have collected funds at the Golden Corral, [a] restaurant in Orem, Utah. The funds are used for the veterans in Utah County. The DAV donated funds for the Veterans’ nursing home in Payson to furnish a bedroom.
I am blessed to be a part of this organization. My eyes have been opened to the needs of our veterans and their families. Our Chapter I Disabled American Veterans [in] Provo, Utah, has an office at the historical courthouse building in Provo now, thanks to the Utah County commissioners who humbly helped us to have a place to meet on a monthly basis. We meet on the second Thursday of the month on the third floor.
I am so grateful to be a woman in this country. I have value. I have my education, and I am free to serve as I wish. Knowing that this freedom has been fought for by many in our armed services, leaves me feeling that I must give back. I learned at an early age about being honorable, caring for others, trusting, helping whomever needed help, contributing to my community, respecting my elders, and knowing that whatever was going on in my life would pass. I have had many trials and tribulations from sexual abuse myself and that of my children, to growing up in a home where they sold drugs, to having many family members with HIV due to their drug abuse. The father of my children abandoned us and never paid child support—on welfare for three years. My children went through very hard times. Now I say I wouldn't change anything that has happened to me because it has made me stronger. Thank you for this opportunity to let you know about my family and I.
Please see Carmen Negron, email correspondence to Michele Welch, Director of the Utah Women’s Walk, July 9, 2013.