Since we have nothing else to talk about, it looks like more and more games are adopting the free-to-play model... even World of Warcraft is losing millions of subscribers, with so many amazing AAA free-to-play options.

I will admit that it'll be lame if they try to go for a P2P model and then if that doesn't work, fall back on F2P. I think they should just do F2P from the get-go and do it in a dignified way that's fair for all.

Since we have nothing else to talk about, it looks like more and more games are adopting the free-to-play model... even World of Warcraft is losing millions of subscribers, with so many amazing AAA free-to-play options.

I will admit that it'll be lame if they try to go for a P2P model and then if that doesn't work, fall back on F2P. I think they should just do F2P from the get-go and do it in a dignified way that's fair for all.

I wont lie.. It does seem shameful to start P2P then go F2P.. I much rather start off F2P.. But then again the game isnt built with F2P in mind soo.. IDK how that would work. Probably more delays lol.. Regardless of the trend or whats going on with other games, I hope SE overcomes the trends and wins on there own terms with their P2P

even World of Warcraft is losing millions of subscribers, with so many amazing AAA free-to-play options.

Yes, they lost millions in a recent new story on many sites. They went from 12 million to 8.3 million. The last expansion was over 2 years ago, in a community that is more fly-by-night than most. Not the apocalypse..

FFXI is still sub based. XIV will be too. You'll just have to mow a few more lawns to play Killua, though I'm pretty sure this isn't a game you'll actually play. Why not play Rift now, since it's free? Or any of the other free ones? Go play Maple Story!

Since we have nothing else to talk about, it looks like more and more games are adopting the free-to-play model... even World of Warcraft is losing millions of subscribers, with so many amazing AAA free-to-play options.

I will admit that it'll be lame if they try to go for a P2P model and then if that doesn't work, fall back on F2P. I think they should just do F2P from the get-go and do it in a dignified way that's fair for all.

It's not going to happen, not now, not ever. If you don't want to play FFXIV, move to something else. Move to RIFTs F2P model.

I won't be bitter and ill just go and state my opinion. Since i support P2P model i want ARR to go P2P and try to stay that way.If after sometime they see that they don't have a good player base and having problems they could think of going F2P, not that i like it, i hate it actually but if they do want after a time to go that way it will all depend in the kind of F2P they will make. But i personally will believe they failed as a game if they go that way.

Why!? Money? Is it the money? If it is, I don't know what to tell you without being condescending.. If you are financially taxed by $14.99, you really should spend your free time bettering yourself, studying, job hunting, etc.

If you are not old enough to work, F2P is very appealing to you, yes. But then all these kids create a community like League of Legends, notoriously the worst, most hate-filled and vitriol community I have ever witnessed.

But other than that... If you are telling me you actually prefer a game mechanic where you enter your credit card info for every new quest section (LOTR), or double exp bonuses or drop rates (every other game), or real money to set up a shop or use that to buy and sell items (Diablo and others) then you are insane.

EDIT:

I should add, I am honestly asking, why do you want F2P (those that do) because I don't understand it.

Since we have nothing else to talk about, it looks like more and more games are adopting the free-to-play model... even World of Warcraft is losing millions of subscribers, with so many amazing AAA free-to-play options.

I will admit that it'll be lame if they try to go for a P2P model and then if that doesn't work, fall back on F2P. I think they should just do F2P from the get-go and do it in a dignified way that's fair for all.

Not true. He's not even a close second. poubelle was way more efficient; less words, more anger. Unless both are the same guy.

I humbly disagree. The whole point of trolling is that it has to seem believable; it is a subtle art. In a lot of cases Poubelle's posts were just argument for the sake of, or it seemed like he was deliberately saying things to get a rise out of people. Here it's not as transparent, so I'm giving the award to Killua.

I'll admit, I saw this one coming but people who were still playing Rift were willfully blind. Trion dumped too much money and development effort into Defiance, and truth be told, it's not all that great as post-apocalyptic series go so I feel that was a mistake. It's a decent enough show for those of us who are fans of the Genre, but it's not "great" and it's not going to save them.

What does this mean for XIV? Nothing at all. Rift is just another WoW clone that is dying a WoW clone's death. And when I say "WoW-clone", I mean I played both games EXTENSIVELY and Rift is quite literally as WoW-Clone as it gets. It wasn't just a copied UI, it was a copied everything with pretty graphics and a halfway decent story.

XIV isn't just making up a story in WoW clothing. It's got its own huge lorebase to pull from (Rift didn't have a dedicated following beforehand) and it's got complete stylistic difference and a different approach to competitive and cooperative gameplay.

Is it sad to see Rift go F2P? Sure. It was the last great contender to the crown in the past few years. Was anyone really surprised? Nope. Their death knell was sounding as far back as the SL release when for 6 months classes were completely broken and unplayable and we had to play guessing games, running from continent to continent to level up. Many of us (including me) bailed then.

No thanks. Even in F2P games, I still go with a subscription if possible. I did it in lotro, I did it in swtor. Why would I want to play a game based on micro-transactions when I can pay 1 fee (which, at $14.99/month is pretty much the best entertainment deal you can get in terms of cost effectiveness)? Almost all F2P games end up putting most of the content in a cash shop and then charging more than what you pay if you subscribed. Why would anyone want that?

TurboTom wrote:

There's no question that the f2p model has infinitely more earning potential than a sub-based model. Maybe they're just trying to earn more money.

Not in all games. FFXI would never have been as successful in a F2P model, nor would WoW if it went full F2P. Yes, they are losing subs. The game is like 10 years old, what do you expect? They still have 8mil+ paying customers, so clearly the P2P model works perfectly fine when done right.

If you are telling me you actually prefer a game mechanic where you enter your credit card info for every new quest section (LOTR)

Are... are you serious about that? I thought SWTOR bounded across the line when they started auctioning off UI elements... but this might actually be worse.

Torrence wrote:

people who were still playing Rift were willfully blind

It isn't a little possible that they enjoyed the game and wanted to continue playing it?

Rinsui wrote:

@OP2 ...until LV20. That's a free trial, not FtP

No.. actual free-to-play starting in June.

Overall I'm not bothered by Rift moving to f2p, although it was definitely one of the last true subscription MMOs, it's probably time.

The f2p model they proposed is quite good. You aren't gated on content, you aren't stunted on exp or gold or favor or anything. The remaining subscription perks are pretty minor as far as that sort of thing goes.

I played Rift for about six months when it launched and I really enjoyed it. I stopped playing it for two main reasons.. 1: It felt "heavy." I'm not sure how to describe that, but my character always felt like he was stuck in sand. 2: It really was a wow clone, no bones about it either. And it did a good job. The class system was nice, the pvp was fun (at least while leveling it was), the content release schedule was insane. Unfortunately it was still a little too WoW for me. I don't have a problem with WoW. But if I want WoW, nothing does WoW better than WoW.

____________________________

svlyons wrote:

If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.

Of course MMO's will clone, copy, or borrow from WoW. After 10 years WoW is past its peak, and yet has more players than any other MMO on the market, as far as I know. With that being said, developers will want to stick to a familiar model that may draw former players, casual players, or current players looking for something new. If the formula works, stay with it until something better comes along. New ideas or concepts may be introduced into new IPs but if they only appeal to a small minority a developer will be severely limited on how much revenue they can generate.

I don't think using WOW's diminishing subscribers is a good example to give of a P2P model that is losing it's market. It has 8 million subscribers paying I suppose about $10 per month (don't know the current payment) X 8 mill is a huge chunk of change, they are not hurting that much for sure. With no expansions they are basically coasting at the moment.

I prefer P2P, I want to put effort not $$$$ into my character, who wants to win by buying ones advantage, not I.

F2P seems like the beginning of the death of a MMORPG. F2P nickles and dimes you to death for gear, boosts and so forth. I'd much rather pay a monthly fee and still be able to have a shot at the same perks as everyone else who works hard to get them. If they want to make some money on the side then by all means sell special mounts or even some "fu-fu" holiday gear or something. But keep MMORPG's pure, hard work and time spent will allow you to reap bigger and better rewards.

It isn't a little possible that they enjoyed the game and wanted to continue playing it?

What does that have to do with refusing to see the writing on the wall? Rift has been bleeding subs since about 2 months before SL hit - maybe around the time they banned No Quarter. Fanbois drowning out legitimate complaints throughout Storm Legion is a large reason why things didn't get fixed and now they can't sustain the subscription model. So yes, those being willfully blind may enjoy the game as it is but they certainly didn't do their beloved game any favors.

Trion did exactly what Blizzard did with Cataclysm, but Trion didn't have nearly enough cushion to take the blow. They set the accessibility bar too high, and pushed out a large portion of the players who really enjoyed the game as it was. They completely redesigned classes from the ground up and FUBAR most of them. Things were literally broken and the players themselves had to do Trion's development work finding the bugs. It was a mess. F2P was no surprise. What was surprising, is that it's happening so soon after maybe 2 months ago Daglar or Elrar (can't remember which) was swearing up and down there were "no plans" for F2P.

Yea SWTOR is a really good example of a game not even worth trying right now. I'm surprised they stuck to their guns with the action bars thing - that was the biggest complaint of all players when it went F2P and they said they would "revisit" it. I guess they didn't.

EA is one of the worst companies in gaming - they ran ME3 into the ground and the doctors ended up leaving I think largely because of it. Shame.

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.

Why!? Money? Is it the money? If it is, I don't know what to tell you without being condescending.. If you are financially taxed by $14.99, you really should spend your free time bettering yourself, studying, job hunting, etc.

If you are not old enough to work, F2P is very appealing to you, yes. But then all these kids create a community like League of Legends, notoriously the worst, most hate-filled and vitriol community I have ever witnessed.

But other than that... If you are telling me you actually prefer a game mechanic where you enter your credit card info for every new quest section (LOTR), or double exp bonuses or drop rates (every other game), or real money to set up a shop or use that to buy and sell items (Diablo and others) then you are insane.

EDIT:

I should add, I am honestly asking, why do you want F2P (those that do) because I don't understand it.

Edited, May 14th 2013 12:24pm by Louiscool

In my case, it would get my friends to try it. Even the 1.0 crowd I know, only 3 of them are interested in ARR (out of 28).

No matter how many times you guys call me a troll or down rate me, I don't think F2P FFXIV would be so bad if done right.

Everyone gets to play, it's free, cash shop outfits and chocobo dyes and cosmetic pets and skins and junk like that support the game and in exchange we get a larger playerbase and the company could definitely make more money resulting in more content.

I mean, TERA was on life support and now it's doing great. It just got a big content update today I believe, with some new 20-man activities. How? By selling stupid stuff like maid outfits. Who really cares? Why do you guys care? If it means more people and more profits.

There's a very real perception of investment when you're paying a subscription that will tend to make people care about what they're doing a lot more than a f2p game can ever get.

While I'm sure there are people who will play a f2p game for years, that isn't where the smart money is in most cases, and a Final Fantasy MMO will require a dedicated base of players, not a revolving door.

Quote:

I hope FFXIV starts as F2P.

It won't. We know this with 100% certainty.

____________________________

svlyons wrote:

If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.

No matter how many times you guys call me a troll or down rate me, I don't think F2P FFXIV would be so bad if done right.

Everyone gets to play, it's free, cash shop outfits and chocobo dyes and cosmetic pets and skins and junk like that support the game and in exchange we get a larger playerbase and the company could definitely make more money resulting in more content.

I mean, TERA was on life support and now it's doing great. It just got a big content update today I believe, with some new 20-man activities. How? By selling stupid stuff like maid outfits. Who really cares? Why do you guys care? If it means more people and more profits.

I hope FFXIV starts as F2P.

Well, like in the case you described:

Quote:

cash shop outfits and chocobo dyes and cosmetic pets and skins and junk

You get people running around with glittery gold lions and super annoying emotes or world-wide shout ability, or people who level up twice your speed because you arent spending 5 bucks for 2 hours of 2X exp.

And if you say "well just make the skins etc lore-oriented liek the bathing suits, my response is:

I want the stupid holiday events, I want to go do some silly goldfish scooping contest for some fireworks. I don't want to sacrifice the event-ness of that so they can make some side cash.

So do the maid outfits replace the look of your gear? So i'll have 9 mithra is my party in maid outfits while we fight the garlean empire? I believe it was YOU, not a few hundred topics ago whining about "I don't want X because it will break immersion."

Stupid maid outfits are not immersive, they are exploitative of the community, and make the game really hokey. I would quit playing a game that did that.

Quote:

I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...

If ARR is fun, I will play - F2P or P2P, and yes, you are wrong, many people play free games long term (many years).

1) FFXI and XIV are very different from most mmos based on the "1 Character - All Classes" principle. In this respect, knowing other players, recognizing them, having good or bad experiences, goes a LONG way to enhancing your enjoyment. It's the reason I re-subbed to FFXI last week, and the reason many others continue to pay monthly even if they don't play it often.

Other games, you have MANY characters and one player already has a revolving door of characters. so it's not as noticeable.

2) Have you have just been given a handful of free games? Have you ever known anyone who downloaded every game on say XBOX for free? These people are the most unhappy gamers I've ever met. My friend has this problem. He owns every game, plays hardly any of them because hes overwhelmed and doesn't appreciate sh*t.

"Did you play Portal 2?" "Yeah liek an hour of it." "WHAT!? Why only an hour!?" "I don't know, I have too many games."

This is the F2P player mindset. I buy my games, so every single one is a precious snowflake that needs to be fully completed.

I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...

Because you probably haven't

Do you at least see the point of people who want to pay a monthly fee and have access to EVERYTHING? Cash shop items, all of it? This is the crowd you're trying to sell F2P to here at least.

I see the point but I also see how profitable microtransactions are (cash shops, downloadable content, digital content in general), so I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of those people's satisfaction (who are going to stay anyway if they LIKE the game, not because of what the payment model is) if it means more people can try the game out, and the company can make more money for more content.

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.

Microtransactions are extremely profitable, sure. I played Mass Effect 3's multiplayer for over a year, listening to the crap on the forums about the decked-out players who *clearly* bought all of their gear with real money. It created a rift in the community that I hated. I do not want to experience anything like that again. The only threat to anything like that is by way of RMT, but hey, most people keep that on the down-low and you just don't ask about that kind of thing. I don't want to have my progress trivialized by someone /checking me and rolling their eyes, going, "oh, you probably paid for all of your stuff." That's the main reason why I don't want F2P and why I will not play FFXIV if it ever goes F2P.

I think going free to play cheapens the game and I hope to god that never happens :( The only ftp game I got into was Pandora Saga . It is a very FFXI like game and enjoyed it quite a bit without even having to buy anything.

I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...

Because you probably haven't

Do you at least see the point of people who want to pay a monthly fee and have access to EVERYTHING? Cash shop items, all of it? This is the crowd you're trying to sell F2P to here at least.

I see the point but I also see how profitable microtransactions are (cash shops, downloadable content, digital content in general), so I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of those people's satisfaction (who are going to stay anyway if they LIKE the game, not because of what the payment model is) if it means more people can try the game out, and the company can make more money for more content.

I want a game that I can pay one fee monthly for and have access to everything. I think the vast majority of players interested in ARR feel the same, as we came from games like FFXI where that's how it went. Everyone was on equal footing. No ridiculous costumes that people had to buy. No double XP perks that you had to buy. You just pay your fee and you get everything. That's what I want, and I think that's what most people who will play ARR want.

No. I don't want ARR to start as F2P. I don't want it to end up as F2P.

RIFT is clearly switching because they think they can make more money that way. That's their prerogative.

imho no P2P mmo goes F2P because "they think they can make more money that way" to me a P2P mmo that goes F2P is because "no one wasnt to pay for this, thus its not making any (of very little) money at all, so lets m,ake it free so that we can up the user base then get em with micro transactions"

In otherwodrds if FFXIV gets something lie 100k players.. I can assure you it WILL go free (or die) theyre not gonan keep it up just for us die hard fans that DO wanna pay for it