If anyone ever wondered about the saying “making a mountain out of a mole hill” we have a perfect example in how a simple project gets stretched beyond all reasonable proportions right here in this topic.

Kiwihands is challenged with this statement:

Martijn (admin) wrote:Dear Kiwihands,...You asked people for 'happy guessiing', but you obviously also had serious underlying intentions... since I think it is obvious that you were very interested to see how people would respond and process this task.

I think we were all very interested in seeing “how people would respond and process this task”. That’s a great way of advancing our knowledge and learning from each other.

Kiwi also presented this simple, multiple choice, test in the general category and not in a Science and Research category. If in the latter, perhaps such microscopic dissecting that has happened here would be more apropos....

Patti wrote:

Martijn (admin) wrote:After Lynn's sensible resistance to make even a single attempt, Ed Campell has reported likewise thoughts at Facebook regarding this issue, see:https://www.facebook.com/martijn.vanmensvoort.7/posts/352962691436074

I find it quite annoying to spend time and energy participating in a group activity, that for the most part was found both an enjoyable and a learning experience by all, to have someone who didn't participate come along and treat the whole thing as an outsider discussing the activities of specimens in a bottle!

If everyone stuck their head in the sand just because in the past research showed this or that and avoided making attempts to test out their own theories, but just blindly accepted someone else's "research" results, no one would get anywhere. We'd just accept what was. Perhaps it's safe and sensible to make the head in the sand answer - and more risky to be progressive and take a look at what we know from research and experience and see what happens when we put it to use.

I think my words are very clear here to all and it should also be clear in what context I wrote them. It has been amusing to say the least to watch them applied misleadingly and out of context.

Annoyed no longer covers the range of feelings I have about how this discussion progressed in regards to the comments targeted at myself by Martijn. There’s not enough snake oil in the world to slither around the nature of the target as one only needs to skim the bloody print for the # of times “Patti” is mentioned.

As I see it, what we have done here in this topic and in other topics, especially more recently, is work together to try to better understand the psychology of people and to take a moment to walk in their shoes. We have created valuable dialogue amongst ourselves and in some cases with the owner of the hands to expand our understandings of people from all walks of life. I think others here share my enthusiasm for this type of communication and would like it to continue without fear of being dissected or sledge hammered.

After much consideration, I think it best and sensible to model my role here in a replication of Lynn’s and Martijn’s example of participation. Lynn and I also co-moderate Palmistry Primal Focus in Yahoo Groups and have for about 10 years. We’re good at keeping out the spam and helping people with uploading files, but there hasn’t been much continuous dialogue since its early years when I posted as Stardusttoo.

My own forum, Hand Analysis of the Future, which I created a month or two prior to this one and before Sue closed Palmistry International, was lost due to the server closing down and I did not have the board backed up. Because of that I have had more time to spend here at this forum. I am currently involved in setting it back up with the intentions of working with passionate and/or advanced hand analysts who would like to dialogue about hand features in a non-lurking, non-trolling, private and more conducive setting. Please contact me if you share this passion.

Male Homosexuality Study: Gay Men Have Evolutionary Benefit For Their Families, New Research Suggests http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/why-are-there-gay-men_n_1590501.html

The new study will appear in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Sexual Medicine.

Of course, no single factor can account for the varied array of sexual orientations that exist, in men as well as in women. "It is quite possible that there are several influences on forming a homosexual orientation," said Gerulf Rieger, a sexual orientation researcher at Cornell University. He noted that environmental factors — including the level of exposure to certain hormones in the womb — also play a role in molding male sexuality. But as for why genetic factors would exist that make men gay, it appears that these genes make women, as well as gay men, alluring to other men.

However, applying those clues to the 3 cases included in this test... I found that the only case of homosexuality (case 3) does not show the typical masculine/feminine clues at all.

(I think this sort of confirms that - despite the clues described in scientific studies for populations - it is usually not possible to apply these clues successfully to individual cases, apart from 'lucky guesses' of course)

Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

Nathaniel Altman presents in his book 'Sexual Palmistry' 4 hand prints of gay men and 1 hand print of a lesbian; but his words indicate that he is not convinced at all that it is possible to read 'sexual preference' from the hand:

"Same-Sex Orientation

The subject of homosexuality is a more serious issue, and nearly every book on palmistry has added to the confusion that exists regarding same-sex orientation. The hand of a homosexual - invariably a male - was portrayed as weak, with a supple thumb (revealing an unstable personality and a lack of willpower), a broken or islanded head line (indicating serious emotional problems) a long, broken girdle of Venus (betraying a sensitive nature and strong sexual appetites), a long, chained heart line (showing that emotions rule over reason) and pointy fingers (revealing artistic tendencies, capriciousness, and lack of emotional balance). I have not found this to be the case at all. It is very difficult - if not impossible - to determine sexual orientation from the hand. People who prefer members of their own sex are found in every culture and profession, and represent a wide spectrum of personality traits and human emotions. ...

These examples reveal that the boundaries between 'gay' and 'straigth' are often quite vague, and blanket statements rarely serve a worthwhile purpose. ..."

I think we can observe here that Altman's observations sort of confirm that it is quite impossible to read sexual orientation from the hand in an individual.

But I also think it is important here to point out to the fact... that many people are able to 'read' sexual orientation (in many cases) from the face/body of an individual (see for example this study).

Because this sort of indicates/proofs... that the hand does not reveal 'everything and anything' (contrary to the 'believes' that some palmists may have).

Finally, earlier this year (2012) a US study revealed that in this perspective face 'asymmetry' appears to be a more important factor than the facial masculine/feminine characteristics, see:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120121120109.htm

I think this could be an important clue... because the hand shape measurements that I made (earlier this week) for the 3 cases presented in this topic indicate that case 3 has the highest hand shape asymmetry + the highest asymmetry regarding the major hand lines (see for example the ending of his head lines)...!

I read tarot for a while in a gay bar here in Dallas. As part of the reading I looked at hands. I didn't notice any differences between gay and straight hands. People are people, regardless of who they love I guess.

Thought you might be intersted to know I had a hand analysis done recently, and was told that my double loop on the moon mount represents uncovering truth / seeking greater wisdom in the spiritual side of life. She referred to it as the Loop of Mystery, and said it is often found on hands of healers .