It's time to let Jagr walk. Couturier needs a top 9 role, and he can't get that while Jagr is here. Of course on top of that, Wellwood and Talbot can clearly play in the top 9.

Jagr is redundant and needlessly expensive here, as good as he is.

Also keep in mind that the salary numbers for Couturier and Schenn are 0.93m and 0.90m respectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyers1975fan

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Pavel Kubina ($2.750m) - major discount, but he said he wanted an extension here
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossman ($3.000m) - has been more than solid, this might not be enough to keep him here but i can dream
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.000m) - small raise if he can prove good enough to be a starter
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

I don't mind this one bit. If Bryzgalov continues to play at an NHL quality level than this defense is fine. If he does not, then we have to go get Suter.

Like I said, it's something that greatly benefits both sides. I explained it in detail in another thread with basically the same topic.

Unless the rules are changed drastically to the point where we don't even have the same contract make-up as we do under this current CBA, I can't see them making a change to the ELCs and how they operate under the cap.

I'm not assuming. I'm making an educated guess that the league and NHLPA will agree to not drastically change contract structure of the current league across the board let alone get rid of a practice that benefits both sides greatly while having been proven more than effective.

Alright, I re-did the roster taking into account things that were posted here.

Now it's basically identical to this year's roster minus Jagr who is too expensive to resign.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Matt Carle walk because it's clear he is not the type of defensemen we need at the moment, but indications are that he will be resigned.

13th forward? they'll almost definitely go w/ a 22 man roster. I'd assume Shelley would be the 13th cause Paul seems to have a man crush on him. if it were Shelley that would leave like 600k in cap space

13th forward? they'll almost definitely go w/ a 22 man roster. I'd assume Shelley would be the 13th cause Paul seems to have a man crush on him. if it were Shelley that would leave like 600k in cap space

id be happy w/ that line-up

I think Shelley is done after this season here. Sestito shown he could do much more on the ice and was getting playing time over Shelley.

I also don't know why Jagr wouldn't be wanted back on this team next season. The guy can still play at 40 years old and has the type of work ethic that can be taught to the younger players on the team.

Alright, I re-did the roster taking into account things that were posted here.

Now it's basically identical to this year's roster minus Jagr who is too expensive to resign.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Matt Carle walk because it's clear he is not the type of defensemen we need at the moment, but indications are that he will be resigned.

You have to use a higher upper limit, early estimate is $69MM, they may negotiate a different share for the players in the new CBA but we don't know about that.

Your new figure on Carle is low, 25 minutes, 40 point defenseman earn a lot money in free agency, no matter how good we think they are. Wideman got $4MM in '08 (RFA, 7%), Giordano got $4MM last year (RFA, 6,3%), Hamhuis got $4.5MM in '10 (UFA, 7.5%), Kronwall has a new deal starting next year for $4.75MM (UFA, 7%) ... I expect around 7.5% for him, Hamhuis seems to be a good comparism, not a #1 on any team, can play many minutes, no team discount, $5.2MM for Carle.

Also If Ryan Suter does not sign in Nashville and becomes a Free Agent, the Flyers will be big time players. They will move the necessary salary to make it work. If that means Mez or Coburn have to go to fit Suter in, i'll be a very happy fan.

I also think the cap will still increase with all the drama about the CBA though. Maybe to the 66 million mark or around there after it is all done and over with. The players union will want the cap to be able to continue to climb because it means more money on the table for free agents.

I also think one of Kubina or Grossman will walk via free agency. I would want to keep Grossman because of his age mostly. He could be had for around 3 million too. If won't take much more than that.

I also don't know why Jagr wouldn't be wanted back on this team next season. The guy can still play at 40 years old and has the type of work ethic that can be taught to the younger players on the team.

Well, the problem is that the Flyers need to resign 5 people (Jagry, Voracek, Carle, Kubina, Grossman) and only have the cap space for 4.

Most people are convinced Carle is going to be back by unpopular demand. It seems unlikely they'll let Grossman and Kubina walk with how solid they've been. It doesn't make sense to let Voracek go when he has major potential.

So it just comes down to the fact that Jagr seems like the odd man out, even if its for reasons the fans don't agree with.

$3.2MM would be 60% of what his real value is ... that's a huge paycut.

Bobrovsky is a RFA, if he doesn't like what we offer he can sign with every team outside the NHL, like in Russia.

Jagr is not worth as much as similar point-producers of younger ages because his lack of youth brings more health uncertainty.

However, I agree with you that it would not be fair to expect Jagr to take anything less than the $3.3 M he got this year. Hopefully there is enough good-will on both sides that they can bring him back for the same exact amount he makes now.

Completely disagree. Was at the morning skate in Wpg and he is clearly the leader on this team. He spent the whole practice teaching. He spent lengths of time with pretty much everyone, both on the ice and at the white board on the side. What stood out the most, was his time with Timmo, and especially Briere. He was instructing both and they were listening like rookies. Totally new level of respect for Jagr.

I think Shelley is done after this season here. Sestito shown he could do much more on the ice and was getting playing time over Shelley.

I also don't know why Jagr wouldn't be wanted back on this team next season. The guy can still play at 40 years old and has the type of work ethic that can be taught to the younger players on the team.

Oh i know Sestito can do more for this team than Shelley but he still has 1 more yr left on his contract and I don't see Paul moving him.

As for Jagr, its not a matter of wanting him back on the team next year (which i do) but more so fitting him on the team. If the cap increases to 69 mil then its not a problem at all but if the cap stays the same or even decreases (highly unlikely imo) as many have speculated under the new CBA then its a problem. I'm next to positive the Flyers won't land Suter, as much as i hate to admit it, even If he hits the market (and thats a big if) so they'll have to sign some D-men like Carle, Grossman and Kubina or some combination of the two and bring up Gus/MAB. Then they have to re-sign both Jagr and Jake. At 64 mil I don't see how thats possible. If it comes between the two of them or trading another young forward to make room for Jagr the Flyers kinda have to let him go.

Oh i know Sestito can do more for this team than Shelley but he still has 1 more yr left on his contract and I don't see Paul moving him.

As for Jagr, its not a matter of wanting him back on the team next year (which i do) but more so fitting him on the team. If the cap increases to 69 mil then its not a problem at all but if the cap stays the same or even decreases (highly unlikely imo) as many have speculated under the new CBA then its a problem. I'm next to positive the Flyers won't land Suter, as much as i hate to admit it, even If he hits the market (and thats a big if) so they'll have to sign some D-men like Carle, Grossman and Kubina or some combination of the two and bring up Gus/MAB. Then they have to re-sign both Jagr and Jake. At 64 mil I don't see how thats possible. If it comes between the two of them or trading another young forward to make room for Jagr the Flyers kinda have to let him go.

Not too long ago Homer said to one of our beat writers that if a big name star dman was to become available via free agency, he could move salary to make it work. They didn't mention any names though(they can't of course). So I would believe that your almost positive claim that the Flyers won't get Suter is wrong. Sign Suter and trade Mez. It really wouldn't be that hard to fit him if the cap goes up.

Completely disagree. Was at the morning skate in Wpg and he is clearly the leader on this team. He spent the whole practice teaching. He spent lengths of time with pretty much everyone, both on the ice and at the white board on the side. What stood out the most, was his time with Timmo, and especially Briere. He was instructing both and they were listening like rookies. Totally new level of respect for Jagr.

Completely disagree. Was at the morning skate in Wpg and he is clearly the leader on this team. He spent the whole practice teaching. He spent lengths of time with pretty much everyone, both on the ice and at the white board on the side. What stood out the most, was his time with Timmo, and especially Briere. He was instructing both and they were listening like rookies. Totally new level of respect for Jagr.

If it is between getting 26 year old Suter or resigning 40 year old Jagr. Thank you very much for the season it's been fun but sorry JJ. Getting stud on D for the next 6-7-8 seasons is more important.

Not too long ago Homer said to one of our beat writers that if a big name star dman was to become available via free agency, he could move salary to make it work. They didn't mention any names though(they can't of course). So I would believe that your almost positive claim that the Flyers won't get Suter is wrong. Sign Suter and trade Mez. It really wouldn't be that hard to fit him if the cap goes up.

That's with a modest raise of the cap. Even if it goes up less then that it could work.
Also I took Shelley out because I believe he will get the Cote treatment.

Just cause Homer said he'll move salary doesn't mean other teams like Detroit, Leafs or Rangers can't move salary and make it work. There comes a point where its just not worth it. Seems like most Flyers fans on here are counting on him being a Flyer. All I'm saying is that there are many possible outcomes to this and the most likely imo is that he never makes it to free agency. Many have speculated that both Suter and Weber wanted to see a commitment to winning from the organization before they themselves would commit to deals. Considering the commitment they made to winning via the trades they made: Gil, Kostitsyn and Gaustad (which was a big overpayment) why would the Preds let him walk?

Well, the problem is that the Flyers need to resign 5 people (Jagry, Voracek, Carle, Kubina, Grossman) and only have the cap space for 4.

Most people are convinced Carle is going to be back by unpopular demand. It seems unlikely they'll let Grossman and Kubina walk with how solid they've been. It doesn't make sense to let Voracek go when he has major potential.

So it just comes down to the fact that Jagr seems like the odd man out, even if its for reasons the fans don't agree with.

If they re-sign Carle and Grossman, it will mean very little cash left for Kubina - and if they sign him too, it means that Gus and Bourdon will probably have to be dealt (Anyone know their status re: waivers next year?) and would be wasted at 8 and 9 (with Lilja back as 7D).

Let's see how the whole year and playoffs play out. If I had to prioritize, I'd say Jagr will be a higher priority than Kubina, but there are a lot of ifs.

After last offseason, I don't think we can speculate what's going on in the boardroom, or who else might get traded before the draft....

There will be a change, cap will go up to 67-68M I think . I've created a thread a while back. Cap was over 68 per some article I posted. No guarantees (of course) but with new TV deals and strong Jets market. Why not?

Just cause Homer said he'll move salary doesn't mean other teams like Detroit, Leafs or Rangers can't move salary and make it work. There comes a point where its just not worth it. Seems like most Flyers fans on here are counting on him being a Flyer. All I'm saying is that there are many possible outcomes to this and the most likely imo is that he never makes it to free agency. Many have speculated that both Suter and Weber wanted to see a commitment to winning from the organization before they themselves would commit to deals. Considering the commitment they made to winning via the trades they made: Gil, Kostitsyn and Gaustad (which was a big overpayment) why would the Preds let him walk?

Agree completely. There are really two options:

1. Suter and Weber both walk, one this year and another next year.

2. Suter and Weber both sign extensions after this season.

I think 2. is more likely, but if 1. happens, the cost will be so high we can't do it without wrecking the team too much.