TOPIC: Staffing Change

fordham96 wrote: In game coaching and play calling is overrated as an issue. The issue is talent and depth.

Zach was not given the time of day by the previous staff. He bad mouthed them on the way out. He continually told us the current staff would recruit circles around the previous staff, especially after they started talking to him. That has not gone to plan. He looks a bit foolish. Then he wrote a timid piece claiming that this coming year had a chance to be real good, best team since Final 8 team in 99 but they needed 1)Continuity and 2) Staff change. Well the continuity thing really didn't happen as several players he did not anticipate transferred and the staff change did not happen. Ironically the team does look to be better with those changes especially if Heron is eligible. But bottom line is he has not been right about a lot. And that is because he allowed personal bias to interfere with reporting and now he is invested in this staff. And this is not a defense of the previous staff just a basic understanding of how he has been operating the last 3+ years. If he is so convinced that Mullin should make a new hire (btw he would continually deflect questions before since they did not have an opening. Last time I checked they still don't, yet.) and yet Mulin refuses to and it is so "obvious" that he should then he should be advocating for his dismissal not campaigning for him to do something. He is not a fan he is a journalist.

It's nice when Zach gives positive publicity to the program, but he kind of reminds me of Francesa in that he is a jerk to many fans and acts like he's a sports god that knows all. Can be quite condescending.

I'd also disagree that coaching is overrated. I used to think the same but tell me for a second you don't think Jay Wright could have gotten much more out of our teams the past few years. Lavin had tons of talent and his high water mark was squeaking into the tourney and losing immediately with Sweet 16 level talent.

Keep ignoring the facts but Wright had very talented teams early in his Villanova tenure that he did not win with,causing “fans” like yourself to criticize him and call for his dismissal. It makes no sense to compare Mullin to the Wright of today. Compare him to Wright in his first couple of years at Nova and take into account what each inherited and any objective observer would conclude Mullin stands up ok at worst. Also to Coach K. That does not mean Mullin will match either long term by ANY means but it does mean that the criticism is extremely premature IMO. To clarify, that does not mean Mullin should not be criticized by any means but much of it borders on the ridiculous again IMO. We have a potential Top 25 team but even before it happens some are complaining it may only be one year. Admiitedly tough gets and probably long shots all, but we remain in the running for very significant recruits yet post after post insist we aren’t out there recruiting, which is absurd. I would like one of those posters to explain how we are so damned lucky to not recruit yet still be in the game for these type players. Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities. Lemmings being lemmings.

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I didn't say coaching is overrated, I said it in the context of why SJU has struggled. Lack of coaching is not the main problem for SJU. Talent level and depth which is directly attributable to the poor recruitiing which this staff was supposed to correct.

And I did not say specifically Zach should advocate for a coaching change or that he should give "good publicity" either. I merely explained why he writes what he writes and why in many cases it is inconsistent and if he truyly wanted to be consistent he would need to advocate X or Y.

fordham96 wrote: In game coaching and play calling is overrated as an issue. The issue is talent and depth.

Zach was not given the time of day by the previous staff. He bad mouthed them on the way out. He continually told us the current staff would recruit circles around the previous staff, especially after they started talking to him. That has not gone to plan. He looks a bit foolish. Then he wrote a timid piece claiming that this coming year had a chance to be real good, best team since Final 8 team in 99 but they needed 1)Continuity and 2) Staff change. Well the continuity thing really didn't happen as several players he did not anticipate transferred and the staff change did not happen. Ironically the team does look to be better with those changes especially if Heron is eligible. But bottom line is he has not been right about a lot. And that is because he allowed personal bias to interfere with reporting and now he is invested in this staff. And this is not a defense of the previous staff just a basic understanding of how he has been operating the last 3+ years. If he is so convinced that Mullin should make a new hire (btw he would continually deflect questions before since they did not have an opening. Last time I checked they still don't, yet.) and yet Mulin refuses to and it is so "obvious" that he should then he should be advocating for his dismissal not campaigning for him to do something. He is not a fan he is a journalist.

It's nice when Zach gives positive publicity to the program, but he kind of reminds me of Francesa in that he is a jerk to many fans and acts like he's a sports god that knows all. Can be quite condescending.

I'd also disagree that coaching is overrated. I used to think the same but tell me for a second you don't think Jay Wright could have gotten much more out of our teams the past few years. Lavin had tons of talent and his high water mark was squeaking into the tourney and losing immediately with Sweet 16 level talent.

Keep ignoring the facts but Wright had very talented teams early in his Villanova tenure that he did not win with,causing “fans” like yourself to criticize him and call for his dismissal. It makes no sense to compare Mullin to the Wright of today. Compare him to Wright in his first couple of years at Nova and take into account what each inherited and any objective observer would conclude Mullin stands up ok at worst. Also to Coach K. That does not mean Mullin will match either long term by ANY means but it does mean that the criticism is extremely premature IMO. To clarify, that does not mean Mullin should not be criticized by any means but much of it borders on the ridiculous again IMO. We have a potential Top 25 team but even before it happens some are complaining it may only be one year. Admiitedly tough gets and probably long shots all, but we remain in the running for very significant recruits yet post after post insist we aren’t out there recruiting, which is absurd. I would like one of those posters to explain how we are so damned lucky to not recruit yet still be in the game for these type players. Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities. Lemmings being lemmings.

Mullin has had 3 full years. This is his 4th season. The "he started with nothing" adage is gone now. He has all of his guys and there's no one leftover from the Lavin era. He has made his bed the way he has wanted, so it's completely fair to be critical of dismal results at this juncture. I swear we can be 20 years into a Mullin tenure with the same results every year and there would still be a handful who "remind" us (as if we didn't already know) that he started with nothing. At the end of the day you can either coach or you cannot. Let's hope this season shows us he has talent in that regard.

Logen wrote:
"Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities."

Your statement is correct. We hated the hire because (a) Mullin could only tarnish his reputation as a redmen icon as he had nothing to prove as a long retired NBA Hall of Famer; (b) Both Mullin's salary and especially that of Slice were ludicrous and negate the opinions that St. John's was so cash strapped that they turned to Mullin to "save and restore" the basketball program. (C) There was no "style" to criticize as Mullin hadn't coached a day in his life! Beast of the East had more coaching experience in CYO than Mully!
THOSE were the reasons many here were perplexed by the hire. Once on board we are still waiting and hoping Mully finally gets it as a college coach. This year will tell us everything we need to know to give him his 4 year final grade.

Finally, you may have been in a sanitarium to have missed the few hundred posts over his first two years as coach where many, maybe even you, expected an NCAA or NIT bid at MINIMUM in his third year. Considering Lavin physically "coached " St. John's 4 years and went to post season every year, with 2 NCAA and 2 NITs, Mullin was supposed to be an "upgrade".
Only some Homer drunk on Kool-Aid would miss the obvious 3 year losing record and continue to blame the previous staff, the Mullin players that left the program prematurely, the firing but not firing of Slice, Mitch Richmond's invisible contributions, etc.
You are what your record says you are and we have stunk, plain and simple. Now, President Bobby and the incompetent Oliva raise our ticket prices so we can smell the stench better.
Now the Goff conundrum!
You literally can't make this shit up!

All characters and events depicted in this post are entirely fictitious. Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

fordham96 wrote: In game coaching and play calling is overrated as an issue. The issue is talent and depth.

Zach was not given the time of day by the previous staff. He bad mouthed them on the way out. He continually told us the current staff would recruit circles around the previous staff, especially after they started talking to him. That has not gone to plan. He looks a bit foolish. Then he wrote a timid piece claiming that this coming year had a chance to be real good, best team since Final 8 team in 99 but they needed 1)Continuity and 2) Staff change. Well the continuity thing really didn't happen as several players he did not anticipate transferred and the staff change did not happen. Ironically the team does look to be better with those changes especially if Heron is eligible. But bottom line is he has not been right about a lot. And that is because he allowed personal bias to interfere with reporting and now he is invested in this staff. And this is not a defense of the previous staff just a basic understanding of how he has been operating the last 3+ years. If he is so convinced that Mullin should make a new hire (btw he would continually deflect questions before since they did not have an opening. Last time I checked they still don't, yet.) and yet Mulin refuses to and it is so "obvious" that he should then he should be advocating for his dismissal not campaigning for him to do something. He is not a fan he is a journalist.

It's nice when Zach gives positive publicity to the program, but he kind of reminds me of Francesa in that he is a jerk to many fans and acts like he's a sports god that knows all. Can be quite condescending.

I'd also disagree that coaching is overrated. I used to think the same but tell me for a second you don't think Jay Wright could have gotten much more out of our teams the past few years. Lavin had tons of talent and his high water mark was squeaking into the tourney and losing immediately with Sweet 16 level talent.

Keep ignoring the facts but Wright had very talented teams early in his Villanova tenure that he did not win with,causing “fans” like yourself to criticize him and call for his dismissal. It makes no sense to compare Mullin to the Wright of today. Compare him to Wright in his first couple of years at Nova and take into account what each inherited and any objective observer would conclude Mullin stands up ok at worst. Also to Coach K. That does not mean Mullin will match either long term by ANY means but it does mean that the criticism is extremely premature IMO. To clarify, that does not mean Mullin should not be criticized by any means but much of it borders on the ridiculous again IMO. We have a potential Top 25 team but even before it happens some are complaining it may only be one year. Admiitedly tough gets and probably long shots all, but we remain in the running for very significant recruits yet post after post insist we aren’t out there recruiting, which is absurd. I would like one of those posters to explain how we are so damned lucky to not recruit yet still be in the game for these type players. Truth is from my perspective, many on here hated the hire, the salary and Mullin’s style, no problem, they are entitled. But none of them posted their expectations of where we would be three years in to the hire, with hows and whys, but they fall over themselves criticizing everything Mullin with generalities. Lemmings being lemmings.

Mullin has had 3 full years. This is his 4th season. The "he started with nothing" adage is gone now. He has all of his guys and there's no one leftover from the Lavin era. He has made his bed the way he has wanted, so it's completely fair to be critical of dismal results at this juncture. I swear we can be 20 years into a Mullin tenure with the same results every year and there would still be a handful who "remind" us (as if we didn't already know) that he started with nothing. At the end of the day you can either coach or you cannot. Let's hope this season shows us he has talent in that regard.

One thing I would say is that the players Mullin recruited the first 2 years knew they would get Big East playing time here that was not available at just about any major conference school. Each time we recruited someone above those guys (those guys being Ellisons, Mussini, Amar, etc), the writing was on the wall for them that there playing time would be shrunk. They didn't come here to be back end of the rotation players, they came here to play. So, they defected and there was nothing anyone could do about it. So even as our roster was improving, there was certain to be leakage when serviceable guys could see their minutes slashed would depart.

If you want to blame that on Mullin, be my guest, but there are certain realities that were inevitable that make a complete rebuild extremely difficult.

Maybe we could use a staff change and maybe we will get one. Time will tell. What we do have that we didn't have a month ago is a first team all BE player back for another year and an unexpected former 5 star recruit who may well play for us this coming year. Things are looking up a lot and I am going to enjoy it and hold off on speculating what will happen if we don't win this year at least until the season is underway! No one knows better than staff that next year is a very important one for program. Looking forward to seeing an exciting, successful team in 2018-2019. Yes, I wish we had one more big, but you can't always get what you want and hopefully we will have what we need..

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