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> *Originally posted by **[delosford](/forums/1/topics/314614?page=4#posts-6640978):***
>
> Pay to Win… means PAY TO WIN. Yes, only REALLY BAD GAMES are pay to win.
My opinion is that your game is awful though, besides the fact that whether you call it ‘pay to win’ or not, asking kreds for an ammount of game money or items to get a huge bonus is unfair for the other players.

> *Originally posted by **[ivod](/forums/1/topics/314614?page=5#posts-6642207):***
> > *Originally posted by **[delosford](/forums/1/topics/314614?page=4#posts-6640978):***
> >
> > Pay to Win… means PAY TO WIN. Yes, only REALLY BAD GAMES are pay to win.
>
> My opinion is that your game is awful though, besides the fact that whether you call it ‘pay to win’ or not, asking kreds for an ammount of game money or items to get a huge bonus is unfair for the other players.
No… it’s not unfair to other players at all. The amounts you can buy are only really suitable for advancement at low levels of play, and advancement actually makes you WORSE against lower tier players. The game stops people from griefing. Complaining that some people can pay to advance slightly faster is like complaining that other players were able to start the game before you since the game wasn’t originally on kongregate. Looks like they got an “unfair advantage” for playing on Facebook. Luckily Kongregate doesn’t see it that way since they aren’t completely insane.
For higher level competitive players, the amounts you can buy are a joke and thus they never buy them. Top tier players can make nearly 5k clout in a day, and a difference of 5k per month is eclipsed by the difference skill and collaboration/support makes.
edit: Oh and thanks for POST hacking my game by the way. I’m surprised nobody found that exploit yet. The bill adding script was the first one in the game before I expected it to go anywhere and thus it seems I never added in the hacking protection calls. Of course it would have been nice if you reported the exploit but hey, can’t expect too much…

Hey look, somebody else who doesn’t know what P2W means and who judges games without playing them or understanding them or even bothering to read my posts where I explain how the game isn’t even close to P2W. Even other actual players have tried to explain this once they came to the game from this thread and found it’s not P2W at all.
And yet, folks like you keep coming. Just keep on proving the point of the thread title.
I also like how you think posting troll comments to games and engaging in rating fraud is “nice”. Ehl oh ehl.
edit: oh yeah, and please explain why if my game is P2W none of the Top 20 players have bought any clout or cash? Nobody seems to be able to explain that one.

> *Originally posted by **[Moshdef](/forums/1/topics/314614?page=5#posts-6642390):***
>
> You really twisted my words, bra.
No… that was definitely a direct quote of what you posted. I also like how you apparently edited it afterwards to make it less vulgar? How amusing.
And again: care to explain why if my game is P2W none of the top players have bought any Clout? (Clout is what gets you on the top 20)

Not every game in a genre is bad. Among all the mindless samey tower defense games, there’s gemcraft and protecter. Among all the brown first person shooters big game producers are churning out is Halo 4, Serious Sam and Spec Ops: The Line. It’s possible to make a good game in the awful MMO genre, and Clout’s done it. You don’t judge a game by it’s genre, you judge it on it’s own merits.
Given that, I’m still not going to try out any of the new MMOs that come to this site for much the same reason why I don’t try out first person shooters. There is no variety, and they are almost uniformly bad. I get more enjoyment out of my time from checking out new platformers or strategy games because the garbage-to-value ratio is so much higher. Kongregate doesn’t help this issue by regularly badging and promoting awful MMOs and clogging up the recommended games section with them.