While the Government is putting on a very good face as it pertains to being tough on guns, they have potentially become significantly softer on punishment for gun offenses.

I wouldn't be as opposed to the above five points if in addition to them they significantly increased the punishment associated with illegal firearms possessions and trafficking rather than reducing them and give our folks at the border the tools and the resources to intercept incoming contraband.

Be tough on legal gun ownership,
But at the same time be tougher on illegal gun ownership.

Making it "illegal" to legally own a handgun while potentially reducing the sentencing associated with owning, selling, and using an illegal gun and making no effort to increase vigilance at the entry point for most illegal weapons doesn't appear to be that effective of a gun violence reduction strategy?

So ... we've decided this is a gun-comtrol issue rather than a terrorism issue?

The media are using guns to deflect attention away from the more vital issue. ISIS says he was one of theirs, so we wouldn't investigate that on the theory that they always lie?

What new bit of gun control could there be that would be effective? Everyone knows that, even our dim leader. And Pharmacare? Who's going to pay for that?

Can anyone think of a time when Canada had worse leadership than now?

I think its clear the Danforth shooting incident was not a " legal " gun issue in the sense the firearm used was not legal in Canada and its owner the brother or the shooter were not legal firearms owners and did not ever have a license or permission to own any guns in Canada

under current criminal law the Toronto police would of already had legal authority to have seized that gun before the shooting due to it not being legal and mental health issues of the shooter

for the liberals or Toronto council to come out and say the police new a new law to deal with illegal hand guns in Toronto is pure nonsense as laws are already on the books

While the Government is putting on a very good face as it pertains to being tough on guns, they have potentially become significantly softer on punishment for gun offenses.

I wouldn't be as opposed to the above five points if in addition to them they significantly increased the punishment associated with illegal firearms possessions and trafficking rather than reducing them and give our folks at the border the tools and the resources to intercept incoming contraband.

Be tough on legal gun ownership,
But at the same time be tougher on illegal gun ownership.

Making it "illegal" to legally own a handgun while potentially reducing the sentencing associated with owning, selling, and using an illegal gun and making no effort to increase vigilance at the entry point for most illegal weapons doesn't appear to be that effective of a gun violence reduction strategy?

there is a possibility the liberals are going to try and use the gun control issue as a way to make it look like there doing something about crime in the cities . when in reality there doing virtually nothing when compared to all the get tough on crime bills harper introduced and all the things the conservatives did

my understanding was the liberals were against mandatory minimum sentences for gun offences , at least there were when harper was in power . but the globe article seems to think they might make illegal hand gun possession automatic jail time

On Sunday, 29-year-old Faisal Hussain opened fire with a handgun on Toronto's Danforth Avenue, killing two people and injuring 13.

A confidential police source told CBC News the firearm has been traced to the United States, and that Hussain may have taken it from his comatose brother, who has alleged ties with a street gang.

By 2017, about half the guns used for crime in Canada originated from domestic sources, with the rest largely flowing across the U.S.-Canadian border, according to Toronto police's guns and gangs unit.

​​Jordan Donich, a criminal defence lawyer in Toronto, spoke with As It Happens guest host Laura Lynch about gun control. Here is part of their conversation.

Just how hard is it to get an illegal gun in Toronto if you want one?

There's different ways of getting an illegal gun. One can purchase it on the streets from perhaps a dealer or somebody that actually sells guns illegally on the streets.

Other ways are people who actually steal guns from legal gun owners.

Do you have any sense of how many of these illegal guns, the ones that aren't taken from legal owners, are flowing through the city right now?

I personally don't have a sense of that but I can tell you the issue starts at the border. That's where the weapons are coming from.

They're imported from the U.S. because it's easy to get guns in the U.S.

You can buy guns [from illegal, dark web sites] online from here in Canada and ship them to a PO box in the States, drive across the border and bring them across.

Police Chief Mark Saunders speaks to Toronto City Council, which passed a motion to ask the federal government to ban the sale of handguns within city limits.

But then you're smuggling them illegally. You're hoping you don't get caught.

That's right, but the truth is a lot of people don't get caught. And if they do get caught it's on the 10th time, not the first time.

So if you know this a problem, if the police know this is a problem, if the border service agents know it's a problem, then why aren't they doing a better job of checking for guns coming across the border?

We want to get it at the beginning of the chain, not at the end. And it probably comes down to resources, right?

Then you get into the whole counter-argument: Well, who do we target? What vehicles do we look? Do we search every vehicle?

Once a gun is on the streets, can it be traced?

It depends whether or not it's serialized and that's kind of, I think, the issue we're having. A lot of these weapons have been deserialized. They're invisible guns.

So is there anything the police can do at that point to try to trace where the gun came from?

We have to ask ourselves, OK what's the point? So they trace, they find out where the source was, they find it was a store in the U.S. The store owner's going to say, "I sold it to a person legally here in the U.S."

That's not the problem. The problem is the trafficking.

Ok, but you also hear the reports of people in Canada buying guns legally in order to turn around and sell them. Have you heard of cases like that?

Personally, no. We haven't defended cases like that. But guns are like anything else that can be bought or sold, just like drugs. People go and take out prescription drugs and sell them. It's the same issue we have as a society.

Toronto city council passed a motion calling for a ban on the sale of handguns in the city. Given all you've just told us about access to illegal handguns, what do you make of the motion?

Even if it were to go through, we have to ask ourselves: Is it going to actually have any meaningful impact on crime?

The issue here is crime, not lawful gun owners going to the shooting range and locking their guns up safely and protecting them.

The problem is the unlawful weapons. So banning handguns isn't, I think, going to have a lot of impact on violent crime because the handgun used in the violent crime generally are not legal.

So what's the answer then?

The answer is really at the border and controlling the flow of weapons illegally into Canada.

Written by Sarah Jackson and Sheena Goodyear. Interview produced by Imogen Birchard. Q&A edited for length and clarity.

•Clarification: In an earlier version of this story, Jordan Donich said Canadians can buy from U.S. websites and have them shipped to U.S. PO boxes. However, that would be a violation of U.S. law. He has since clarified that he was referring to illegal, dark web retailers.

The guns are the red herring. This is a trail worth following up on ...

Quote:

... Faisal Hussain's brother had ties to the Thorncliffe Park Kings, a street gang headquartered in the neighborbood with an 80 per cent Muslim population. That same brother once lived at a house where police recovered 33 guns and 42 kilograms of carfentanil. Carfentanil is a powerful street drug, but also has the potential to be used as a chemical weapon.

Hussain himself previously threatened to cut his building security guard's throat, the guard told the Toronto Sun.

His family prayed at a mosque that'll surely be familiar to longtime readers. The Hussain family went to the Masjid Dar-us Salaam, the mosque that served as the force behind the infamous "mosqueteria" at the nearby Valley Park Middle School in Toronto, where, every Friday, the cafeteria played host to sharia-compliant Islamic prayers.
https://www.steynonline.com/8739/how-unclean-was-my-valley

FYi, fenatil is a new drug that is reputed to be 100 times as powerful as ordinary opioids, and responsible for the recent spike in deaths. Carfenatil is a different version several times more destructive than fenatil. You could wonder -- how many deaths would there be in 42 kilos.

Drugs, of course, are often used to finance terrorist activities.

This info comes from bloggers. The news coverage is deflecting attention away from these big questions, which are certainly worth examining in detail.

When Faisal's brother was arrested, part of the evidence of was 30+ illegal guns and 42 kilos (or 92 lbs) of Carfenatil, a grain of which can kill. This stuff could be put in an explosive device and act as a nerve gas.

The brother is in a coma that has lasted since 2017 possibly because he inhaled some of the stuff.

There is no objective evidence that the shooter was mentally disturbed in any way that would account for his actions.

Why do you ignore this? More importantly, where are our so-called journalists?

( the ndp seem determined to have a crazier position on guns than the liberals , Singh is convinced cities must immediately ban legal hang guns as he claims many legal guns are being used in crime .

although he doesn't provide any facts to back up that claim and to my knowledge none exist . and it seems very doubtful to me that " legal " guns are responsible for the recent surge of violence in Toronto . as to get a legal hand gun , one would first have to take a course , pass a test , pass a reference check , pass a back ground check and be a member of a gun club or need a gun for employment purposes .

are we really to believe the gang bangers would actually pass thru any of these hoops and be carrying legal hang guns around the city so they can kill people ? . its almost mind boggling that this is actually the ndp and liberals solution to crime in our cities , would be to take away the legal gun owners guns and not go after the criminals )

In a lengthy letter to Justin Trudeau outlining a long-term approach to tackling crime, Singh says more policing is not a solution to gun violence in cities because some measures, such as street checks and carding, have amplified distrust between police and racialized communities, Indigenous peoples and those struggling with mental illness.

Instead, he says allowing cities to ban handguns would help municipal authorities deal with the fact that many gun crimes are committed with legal guns.

“The federal government should not stand in the way of municipal leaders who know their communities best, and want to ban these weapons to keep their residents safe,” he wrote.

Singh also wants the government to commit to spend $100 million a year, starting next year, on efforts to combat gang violence — a target the Trudeau government has pledged to reach after 2022. He says this funding should focus on prevention, especially looking at youth gangs, bullying and cyberbullying.

He also wants more resources for the Canada Border Services Agency to curtail cross-border weapons smuggling.

In the wake of a deadly shooting in Toronto last month, the federal government has said it’s considering ways to crack down on handguns and allow cities more flexibility in doing so.

Last week, Toronto city council passed a motion urging the federal government to forbid the sale of handguns in the city and for the province to outlaw the sale of handgun ammunition in the city.

Ottawa is considering this as one of several options to add to a slate of changes to federal firearms law introduced in legislation last year.

In his letter to Trudeau, Singh urges the prime minister to speak out more loudly against hate crimes and racist confrontations that have emerged “because of misinformed reactions to gun violence.”

The root causes of violence — such as poverty, racial discrimination, gaps in mental health services and a lack of affordable housing — must also be addressed to reduce the prevalence of marginalized individuals and communities, he said.

“The primary reason I’m writing to you today is to ask for your commitment to develop long-term and effective solutions to the root causes of gun violence by partnering with the communities affected. That is the only way we can truly tackle the issue of gun violence.”

Thomas Mulcair led the NDP to the second largest victory in history and actually led in national polls during an election campaign for the first time that I can recall.

Its logical because on many issues the Mulcair NDP was more center than the Trudeau Liberals.

When he was pitched he was pitched because the grassroots of the party had no interest in chasing the political center (That place where governments are born) and wanted to return to being a party of opposition firmly on the left.

Singh's position is simply the party going in the direction that the party membership wants.

Banning legal gun ownership yet being opposed to increase policing in areas where gun violence is most prevalent and as a party generally being softer on crime and sentencing of those who actually commit these crimes isn't a solution to gun violence, its a fundraising exercise.

Last edited by cosmostein on Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total

Singh's position is simply the party going in the direction that the party membership wants.

Banning legal gun ownership yet being opposed to increase policing in areas where gun violence is most prevalent and and a party generally being softer on crime and sentencing of those who actually commit these crimes isn't a solution to gun violence, its a fundraising exercise.

Put differently, it's an entirely cynical distraction from the real issue involved in the Danforth shooting -- the shooter's motive.

I don't think anyone genuinely agrees that more gun control is the practical solution. It's speculated that he got the gun from his brother, who was in a house that had 30+ of them in it. He had obvious underworld connections.

By the way, what kind of handgun was it?

I agree about Singh. It's probable that he has stern Sikh ethics -- which do not suggest turning the other cheek -- when it oomes to violence against his group. It strikes me that his heart isn't into his politics, about this, or about gender issues either -- and it shows.

I don't think anyone genuinely agrees that more gun control is the practical solution. It's speculated that he got the gun from his brother, who was in a house that had 30+ of them in it. He had obvious underworld connections.

This point goes toward the next step;
To villainize legal gun owners isn't new, this has been par course for decades.

The question that isn't being asked is that if you succeed in doing so and "banning" handguns yet you do little to prevent the flow of illegal weapons into the country and reduce the potential severity of the punishment on those convinced of possessing, point, or trafficking these weapons are you not compounding the problem?

They are essentially saying you can't own a handgun;
BUT if you get one illegally and are caught with it the punishment is not really that prohibitive, doesn't that simply encourage those who we don't want to have handguns to have handguns?

Thomas Mulcair led the NDP to the second largest victory in history and actually led in national polls during an election campaign for the first time that I can recall.

Its logical because on many issues the Mulcair NDP was more center than the Trudeau Liberals.

When he was pitched he was pitched because the grassroots of the party had no interest in chasing the political center (That place where governments are born) and wanted to return to being a party of opposition firmly on the left.

Singh's position is simply the party going in the direction that the party membership wants.

Banning legal gun ownership yet being opposed to increase policing in areas where gun violence is most prevalent and as a party generally being softer on crime and sentencing of those who actually commit these crimes isn't a solution to gun violence, its a fundraising exercise.

the reality is the Toronto politicians are promising people the impossible , you can't ban illegal hand guns from your city . it be virtually impossible to keep them out of the city

there has never been a city anywhere in north America that successfully banned illegal hand guns and put an end to gun crime

the reality is there is going to be gun crime in Toronto no matter what Canada's gun laws are and if its legal for private citizens to own a hand gun or not . the drug trade is just too lucrative and dangerous , the criminals are going to pack guns no matter what are laws are

for Singh to come out are say we shouldn't be increasing policing to these areas is purely crazy and shows how out of touch with reality he is , he's offering people crazy solutions that have little basis in reality

( just saw this story go by in my twitter feed , for singh to say the police shouldn't do there job risk allowing people like this to get away with breaking the law .

and they were not carrying legal guns like he claims is happening , both were clearly charged with unauthorized possession of a firearm , meaning they didn't have a license and had acquired it thru illegal means )

August 3, 2018 2:47 pm

2 men face a total of 40 drug, gun charges after Toronto cocaine bust, police say

By Staff Global News

TORONTO – Police say two men are facing a total of 40 drug and firearms charges following an investigation in Toronto.

Toronto police allege the men were trafficking powder cocaine while armed with a semi-automatic rifle.

They say two Toronto men, aged 19 and 22, were arrested and charged on Thursday.

Each man faces 20 counts, including cocaine and marijuana trafficking, unauthorized possession of a firearm and careless storage of firearm.

( or this dude from Ottawa caught carrying an illegal hand gun , for singh to say gun crime is being committed by legal owners with legal guns is not based in fact or does it appear to be what is happening in our cities , there is many hand guns but there all illegal and being carried by people without authorization to do so

what good would a ban do if police cannot even enforce the current laws and prevent bad dudes from arming themselves ? as appears to be currently happening )

Please give us the data ... or at least your reasons for believing that a lot of legal gun-owners sell their guns without ensuring the registration is changed to a licensed gun-owner?

But, really, lacking any information about the gun used, it's all speculation. The more interesting question is -- what were the shooter's motives? Was he picking targets? Any thoughts on that? Or are you going with the PR release?

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