Why Vegan Gains and All Other Plant Eaters Are Kids Who Don’t Understand Life

Killing animals, eating them and turning their flesh and bones into clothing, weapons and tools was once as natural as breathing. Today, there are influential vegan teachings actively condemning similar actions. What happened? What is the driving force behind that revolution?

Pain and sorrow.

Mammals have a lot in common. Our nervous systems and bodies operate similarly. When you hear a dog suffering, you feel bad inside. The death of insects and plants isn’t nearly as dramatic to the human ear. They ain’t build like us, right?

Once exposed to the sadism in the farms and slaughterhouses, people’s reality is shaken upside down. We become disgusted by humanity and start looking for a way to soften the blow and return to our normal trajectory without feeling guilty.

Veganism is a common solution. All animal products are removed from the menu and replaced by a healthy and “humane” vegan alternative. The number of studies suggesting that meat causes cancer and everything bad in the universe speed up the process and close the capsule.

Except it is not that simple.

There are two major reasons for animals’ agony.

A. Nature.

Nature intended for animals to have a hard life. Some are designed to serve as food for predators. Nothing can change this status. Good luck turning lions into vegans and zebras into meat eaters.

B. Consumerism and disconnection from the natural world

This is where the human factor comes. The modern producers have to come up with huge numbers and cut the cost of production to a minimum in order to meet the necessary margins. The result is dehumanization and cruelty.

Large numbers always cause desensitization. The more you kill, the less remorse you feel. The more sex you have, the harder it becomes to connect with your partners. When you are exposed to a repetitive experience for a long time, your emotional responsiveness has no choice but to go down. Consequently, the producers and the executors become accustomed to the nightmare.

In the past, things were a little different. The numbers were lower. People knew where things come from and had more respect. Today, the bloodbath is hidden. We are left with the shine of the store while the death cries remain in another obscure reality. When you are so disconnected, it becomes easier to make self-rationalizations that have no properties matching reality.

Despite all of that veganism is not a solution. Eating animals is extremely natural and healthy for humans. We have been doing it for centuries with good results. The people from the past were far stronger than the Nintendo switch clowns of today. Diseases like diabetes and cancer were a rarity. The same for tooth decay. You want to know the best way to brush your teeth? Don’t eat sugar and other forms of carbs.

Can You Love Animals and Kill Them At The Same Time?

What if I tell you that there are/were animal killers who have more respect for animals than some vegans? The native Americans for example used every part of the buffalo and worshiped the animal. They understood that death is part of life and lived in harmony with nature. They played the role of predators.

Is this a bad thing? If it was, predators would not exist and neither would anything else because the plus and minus need each other like the day needs the night. The prey cannot survive without the hunters. Death brings life and vice versa.

You Can’t Exist Without Causing Harm to Others

We want to believe in the existence of a safe bubble where everything is sweet and rabbits jump around happily. Life doesn’t work this way. You can live in an artificial environment, but it can never negate the real realm.

Many vegans try to do exactly that. They surround themselves with positive thoughts, focus on passive activism and like cute animals on Instagram. That’s a pretentious behavior. You can’t exist without causing harm to other beings yet the plant eaters pretend that they are pure mofos.

The phone in your pocket? It’s carrying the tears of people who never leave the factory.

The organic “fair trade” bananas in the fridge? Taken from a third world country to generate revenue and allow you to write #vegan.

The cashew that you chew while binge watching Netflix? It comes from the plantations.

Your vegan clothes? Made from petroleum – a resource behind modern wars.

Who are you trying to trick? If you want to become ultra-innocent, why don’t you give up the rest of the goodies too?

The Modern Economy Is The True Power Behind Veganism

Without global trading and non-stop production, there wouldn’t be vegans. The economic furnace is the mechanism allowing the existence of veganism. It would be impossible for people to live as 100% pure vegans if there wasn’t an army of slaves forced by the economy to grow plants.

Another element necessary for the healthy breathing of the vegan cult is technology.

Agriculture is a very unforgiving sector. One bad season and all your crops are gone. Technology speeds up production and minimizes the risks.

Therefore, veganism is a viable option only in a technologically advanced society based on a hierarchy that always results in human slavery.

The Loop Of Stagnation

The processes behind the sorrow powering veganism support the infrastructure necessary to exercise the role of a vegan.

Veganism can reduce the anguish of animals but promotes human slavery and therefore isn’t a long-term solution. It’s another pill that treats the symptoms rather than the causes.

The kids love #vegan because it makes them feel virtuous, but they have one dimensional understanding of the world. They can’t see that the black and white dance together for better or worse.

P.S. You can discuss this post in the comment section below or on the forum.

You are not crazy at all. Great men of all time have been saying that. To have children is either the greatest act of egoism (maximum crime as you have said), the greatest folly (thinking that happiness is possible) or, more commonly, an accident.

I can understand your point of view. For me, as the article said, it is always about black and white. Children can bring joy and they can bring sadness. When they grow up, they will experience both too. That is life. If you think that you will never bring children to this world, isnt that like condemning your parents for bringing you to this world?

Perhaps some people find the suffering of people more tolerable than the suffering of animals. Animals generally lack the ability to be arseholes and jerks. Maybe add veganism to the list of sociopathic symptoms to look out for in friends and family 😉

Convention seems to dictate that one must reproduce. I myself don’t believe it necessary for everyone to have children or even marry, but do what one feels natural for him/her. Most men & women, are not ready mentally or financially to undertake such a responsibility & yet do so anyway out of conformance. This is in part the reason for so many difficult family releations.
Same goes for diet, just eat what agrees with you & what you feel your body needs, be a vegan, vegetarian or meat eater. Vegans tend to impose their diet on others, which is wrong. Everything should happen naturaly & without dogma.

It’s mostly chronic excess calories causing diabetes and such, combined with unbalanced eating where one has too much of some things, and at the same time is deprived of others (especially micro-nutrients : too much iron vs too little copper for example).

If you are undernourished but eat sugar, I bet you that diabetes is not your fate. Dental issues are mostly caused by lack of vitamins (A, D3 and K2 in good proportions) fixing calcium where it needs to be fixed.

You are so ignorant and set in your own ways at this subject, which shows in all the fallicies in this post. I really wish you’d get your head out of your ass and actually become a bit smarter and less ignorant about this.

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is !!possible!! and !!practicable!!, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

^ the bad guys right? How dare they stop killing and eating the corpses of animals and instead sustain themself on plant foods that are way more sustainable?

“Lions though” is a tu quoque fallacy.
The people from the past were stronger, but died younger.
Diabetes and cancer were a rarity for completely unrelated reasons.
Complex carbs don’t cause tooth decay, only free sugars do.
No, you can’t love a sentient being and kill it; it’s that simple.
You can’t live causing zero harm, but you can vastly minimize the harm you cause (that’s the point of veganism).
Vegan clothes are actually mostly cotton, but even if they were all rubber and plastic those are still resources that can be managed peacefully.
The army of slaves who grow plants could start getting a much better compensation if everybody went vegan because all the money and the market would shift to the plants.
A technologically advanced society doesn’t have to result in human slavery.

Vegans’ expectations do match reality: research is practically unanimous that the human body performs best on a plant based diet.

If the whole world went Vegan, the army of slaves would multiply. You see, its capitalism that causes companies to outsource their production and cheap labour to the third world countries, to get the most bang for their buck.

Basic economics, greater demand equals greater supply. So if more people (I mean the whole world as you so elegantly put it) become vegans, more demand, needs greater supply in a capitalistic economy driven by greed, equals more human slave labour.

You list a lot of facts, no evidence. How is diabetes and sugar unrelated? Perhaps you can explain why when diabetics take up a high fat diet they see drastic improvements (some coming off their insulin).

If we all were to wear rubber and plastic, do you actually believe this won’t end up in the landfill somehow. You do realise plastic takes something stupid like 1000 years to breakdown. That’s all left for the planet to cope with. But good idea anyway, nature lover.

If the human body performs best on a plant diet, why then when tested in the most horrific conditions (the northpole, alaska etc) did the traditional people live off basically whale fat/meat alone. You do realise the body has the ability to turn protein and fat into energy (in other words, it doesn’t need carbs to survive).

If complex carbs don’t contain sugar (which causes tooth decay), then why when on the candida diet do they ban potatoes, rice, maze. You see candida feeds off sugar (in any form it can get it).

I disagree, you can love an animal and kill it. When my fathers dog had to be put down after 13-16 years (I forget how long) in the room when they inject the animal (his decision) he burst out into tears (bear in mind men hardly ever cry, my father included). I guess he didn’t love his dog then.

For one thing, if the whole world went vegan the army of salves would reduce 10x because there would be no animal slaves. Speaking about human slaves, you said it yourself: capitalism is the problem, not veganism. Veganism doesn’t create more demand, it just creates a different demand. (Often it actually creates LESS demand because plant foods satiate much faster thanks to their fiber content, so people would basically eat less.)

I didn’t say diabetes and sugars are unrelated, but a vegan diet doesn’t have to be inherently high in free sugars. Sure, Coca Cola is vegan, but nobody recommends it. The best diet is the whole foods vegan diet. With few exceptions, the best food is vegetable, whole, fresh, local, and seasonal.
OTOH, when in doubt about the link between diabetes and meat, just look at Shawn Baker: he ate only meat for months and became diabetic. Mic. the Vegan has a pretty good video about it.

As for plastic and rubber: I know, that’s why I said “even if”. Personally I wear almost entirely cotton, the only notable exception being the leather belt that I’m keeping from when I was omnivore because the marks on its holes remind me how much waistline I lost.

I’m sorry for your father and your dog, but there were probably circumstances dictating his death (was the dog sick? Did he bite someone?), so this is out of context. The torture and murder we’re talking about pertains otherwise healthy living beings. Pigs would be healthy if they weren’t stuffed with hormones and genetically modified crap food to accelerate their growth and turn them into bacon. Saying that anybody loves those pigs (other than vegans) is ridiculous.

I think its important to remember that ‘in a perfect world’ should not be used to substantiate a argument. Certainly I agree that capitalism is a flawed system, but it is the economic system of the western world, and I doubt it will change anytime soon, at least not while the rich are still getting richer.

The dog was just very old, it was struggling to walk if I recall and had arthritis, this happenend many years ago.

Otherwise I agree green veg and certain fruits can certainly aid the immune system and contain lots of vitamins and minerals not found in meat and fat. I can recall one time when I was on school camp, we were eating shitty camp food, and I got a sore throat and felt achey. So I thought if I ate some proper food it might help. If I recall I went and dished up for myself some cucumber, tomatoes, lettace etc. I know it wasn’t placebo because I wasn’t expecting it to miraculously make me feel better, however, I forget the time, but I just remember soon after (like 30 min) my sore throat was gone and I felt better.

“B. Consumerism and disconnection from the natural world”
When I was kid I used to stay a lot in our village farm where seeing domestic animals being slaughtered and butchered for meet was completely normal. So years later during high school I had to find a job in some supermarket working at the meet stall. And bunch of times I was some 15 yo girls passing by and being disgust how raw meet looks like. I asked them “don’t you eat meet?” and they where like “yea, but I haven’t see it IRL” I was like WTF. But seems like their parents are doing everything for them and they are eating already prepared meat, like they are never questioning from where is coming. They stay all day on their phones and computers browsing retarded stuff, and one day they see some of these facebook videos where animals are being butchered and suddenly they realize that animals are killed for meet. This is how vegans are born.

Dear friends, do yourself and your sanity some good and just avoid the conversation of vegans vs everybody else; you are fighting an ideological debate that you cannot win with words or rationale. This is the case whenever one hitches their wagon to a belief based on deep visceral emotion instead of practicality and logic. Arguing semantics in defense of veganism doesn’t change the truth nor creates a valid argument…as TruthSeeker points out the consequences of both sides of the argument have to be taken into account, which negates any vegan inspired global utopian vision that militant vegans try to create with the outright attack on those that believe otherwise than they do in regards to this subject.

Yes factory livestock farming is harmful to the body and environment (like agricultural is as well). Yes mass production of livestock products is cruel and unhealthy. Yes overfishing is a problem. Yes animal exploitation and extinction is of great concern to the planet and humanity. But no veganism isn’t the answer to everything, and is usually used in creating a false equivalency argument, most of the time, in discussing these issues.

The last time I talked with a vegan on the issue it was in regard to commercial fishing and how it is decimating fish stock in many areas, harvesting more than the population can sustain. And then the issue of morality in killing fish, contaminants in fish, unsustainable fishing practices were brought up by my vegan friend.

OK I conceded those arguments are legitimate and very important, but asked what about, say, sardines that are sustainably harvested, have no detectable levels of contaminants (because of their short life span and size), and are rich in protein, Omega-3’s, and B vitamins (which they were deficient in despite supplementing). Do you really have an ethical issue eating those fish, which one can a week would resolve your B vitamin deficiency? Do you really feel bad about eating such a cheap and available protein source because you feel guilty eating a fish that is plentiful and has the lifespan of a butterfly? You see, you can’t paint an argument with a wide brush, it’s not that simple. In short, there are alternatives that don’t involve pure veganism.

And I will reiterate the likewise important point that veganism is only possible because we now have a Trader Joes and Whole Foods on every corner here in the states makes those food choices possible. Living in the northeast, this time of year, if you have to live like a newfound settler or Pilgrim you had only one choice: eat meat or perish. Last I checked, you can’t survive on snow, tree bark or pine cones.

This article shows a very simple way of thinking, e.g. mostly appeal to nature fallacies. So much of what we’re doing today is not natural: animals being bred from artificial insemination, medicine, supplements, technology, etc. You argue that eating animals was natural in the past, but I think even you would agree the way most people eat meat today isn’t natural. And even it was natural then, do we need it today? If we have two decisions that both have the same outcome, but one causes less suffering, why wouldn’t we choose the option with less suffering? You might have two issues with this, and I’m curious what you’d think: 1. You think eating less/ no animals products is less healthy, or 2. You think there would be more human suffering from eating less animal products. If #2 is your issue, I’m wondering what you’d think about the environmental implications and scalability of different forms of meat production.

The article suggests that you haven’t followed through with many of these thoughts after getting an initial idea. I hope you can be more critical with your thinking on this topic as well as other topics, because an article like this will leave a bad impression on people coming to your website looking for a fair analysis/ judgement on other subjects.

It looks like you have an issue with some kind of “pure” veganism and its scalability. You can probably make a better argument if you think about that, rather than making the same old recycled arguments that are wrong and mean nothing against the definition of veganism.

Unfortunately there was no original thought in this article, and all of these arguments have been debunked countless times. Before I debunk your article myself, I just wanted to mention that you have been invited to a live debate by the YouTuber Veggies For Thought, which I hope you will attend.

1. Animals suffer in nature argument – The animals we eat are not the ones that are living in nature. We breed billions of additional animals to torture and kill. Seeing suffering in nature is not a justification to artificially replicate this suffering.
2. Lions eat meat though – Are lions good ethical role models for humans, and if so, which other behaviours of lions do you seek to replicate? Lions have no choice but to eat meat due to their physiology and lack of moral agency. Humans have the physiology and resources to achieve optimum health on a plant-based diet.
3. You did not provide any scientific basis for your claims that our ancestors were healthy (or stronger than people today). What we know if that they had short life expectancy- Too short to even get to the life stage where heart disease and diabetes would even develop. Human lifespan is now being artificially increased with medications for cholesterol and diabetes caused by eating animal products.
4. It is not possible to love/respect and kill an animal. The belief that it is possible arises from cognitive dissonance. I can understand a native tribe being in a state of cognitive dissonance if they know that killing is cruel but do not have the resources to eat a plant-based diet. You then said prey cannot survive without the predator. This does not make any sense, as the prey does not survive in the presence of the predator. Again, we are artificially breeding these animals into existence when we could live without doing so.
5. “You can’t exist without causing harm to others” – Your argument is that we should try to cause as much harm as possible because it might not be possible for us to prevent all harm. This is an appeal to futility fallacy.
6. When you highlight problems with the crop industry, you didn’t account for the fact that an obscene amount of crops are fed to meat industry livestock, while there are humans starving to death. In the absence of the meat industry, less crops would need to be produced and there would be a reduction in human slavery. You avoided addressing the slaves of the meat industry, working in abhorrent conditions and suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

There we have it. Remember to go and debate Veggies For Thought on YouTube if you genuinely believe in the arguments you have posted.

1. Veganism can only exist in the modern conditions of human slavery. Who’s going to pick the cashews for the first-world wannabes? The slaves. If there aren’t people forced to play the role of gatherers, there will be no bananas for the world. Who’s to say that I should pick your cashews for you? I ain’t your slave. Do it yourself if you want to be a real vegan. Oh, wait. Walmart here I come…

Veganism NEEDS the current economy and government like your lungs need air. Without that slave-master economy, your “abundance” replacing meat will be incapable of reaching everyone.

2. In nature there are predators. Humans can be a NATURAL predator and have been such for a long time. Ultimately, predators act as regulators. If there are no regulators, the grass eaters will overpopulate the planet. Never said lions are role models for humans. Nobody read anything.

3. Ironically, the same economy creates the DISRESPECT that vegans are fighting against. Yet it is the same thing that allows veganism to exist. Good luck having vegan goodies without modern trade.

Ultimately, the problem is caused by the technological society, modern slavery, disconnection and greed.

What you eat will not solve it.

If you choose to be a vegan, fine.

But don’t pretend that you are fixing the world, as your behavior would be impossible without the system.

This is how I see things. I respect your opinion nevertheless because I know that it comes from your heart.

This is why your argument seems insincere: If you really had a problem with the ethics of certain food items like cashews, then you would be writing blog posts alerting omnivores about the harm caused by cashew production and recommending alternatives, rather than acting like only vegans eat these foods. Also surely you have heard of the “fair trade” concept?

How can you describe humans as regulators of grass eating populations when the reality is humans force-breed billions of animals for no good reason?

It seems that your argument is more anti-capitalism. Since we are both part of the capitalist system you hate, then on what basis can you claim that your lifestyle is more ethical? In my case, I have boycotted the meat industry which has reduced the demand for animal cruelty and reduced my carbon footprint, while you are advocating for the status quo.

1. Sorry but you’re talking nonsense here, everyone’s gotta have a job. Due to unregulated working conditions, the folks who pick my cashews could be “enslaved”, but it doesn’t have to be like that. They can be paid fair money, holidays, health insurance, etc. The price of cashews inflates? It’s still cheaper than meat.

Furthermore, rest assured that, “without the system”, really few would have the guts of killing, skinning, and chopping animals on a daily basis, and most would suddenly become extremely vegan instead, and pick all the desired cashews. So, quite the opposite of what you say, in fact.

2. Interesting theory, but it doesn’t explain why humans need to be predators.

3. This conclusion of yours is based on flawed premises (see #1).

In summary, you’re simply assuming that our world HAS to be the way it is and that capitalism necessarily results in slavery in unregulated countries. How about regulating those countries instead? How about switching back to a self-sufficient system where our soil grows all the plants we need and we don’t rely on those unfair trades at all instead? I can totally see that veganism can and will work for everyone, and you can’t block it just because you personally guess it’s not going to work.

As for pretending that we’re fixing the world, see the numbers for yourself in Cowspiracy and tell me again.

1.”Fair money” is a fairy tale. Nobody will pay fair money to men and women doing similar jobs since they are seen as expendable and the position does not require special skills. The more desperate people are, the better they work. That desperation can only be achieved through physical or economic force.

Many Eastern Europeans travel to the UK to pick fruits. This happens because the people in the UK do not want to do that job. As a result, people with a weaker economy fill the void. Nobody will be picking cherries and berries and seeds for anyone other than himself or his family if the modern economy did not exist.

2. True. You don’t have to be a predator if you don’t want to. Of course, that may not always be a possibility.

3. All mainstream forms such as capitalism, socialism, communism and whatever result in slavery as they require the existence of a government. All governments produce slavery as they constitute of people (politicians…etc.) who use deadly force (police, military) to subdue the citizens in case they don’t comply with the rules.

The acceptance of a government suggests that other humans have the right to control you. This is stupid because humans are not an authority in the universe.

Self-sufficiency is a great goal. I am all for it, but the modern world is too “spoiled”, “brainwashed”, “gone” and prefers to look for the easy way out. We have become disconnected as I say in the article.

My great-grandfathers and probably yours too lived in farms and had lots of animals and land. But the industrial revolution and urbanization slowly killed all of that. Instead of living in nature, we prefer to exist in apartments that we don’t own so that we can watch comfortably the brainwashed TV shows and frequent the malls.

It’s true that many people wouldn’t have the stomach to hunt and eat animals precisely due to that disconnection. But that’s a modern problem resulting from modern conditioning. Your ancestors had no problem killing an animal and eating it.

In the wild world, killing equals survival.

I also want you to consider the fact that plants have feelings too. They are alive beings. When you cut a tree, you are essentially killing it.

Another important fact, that many vegans ignore is petrol. All those “vegan”/synthetic materials are based on petrol – a resource that has caused havoc in many countries.

1.
Yup its called capitalism. So even if the only thing we produced were Berries, some sort of abuse would still take place, because that’s how capitalism works.

2. King Richard ‘the lion heart’ seemed to think so. I like the fact that the male lions let the female lions do the hunting, then when the hunts over, the males all come to the kill and get first dibs on the meat. Unfortunately most beta males wouldn’t understand this, sorry Phil.

3.
Most men had short life expectancy because of going to war. You can’t say that they were all going to get diabetes anyway and base your argument off that, were you there to take their blood sugar levels right before they died in battle?

4.
Prey cannot survive without the predator. In nature (game farms and nature reserves in particular) when there aren’t enough predators to keep the plant eaters in check, they overpopulate and trample and destroy the nature reserve. Nature needs balance. The lions (as used for illustration) eat just enough springbok to keep their population in check, the springbok in return don’t overpopulate and dessimate the nature reserve/game farm which woukd also lead to them making the reserve barron and possibly kill off many other species.

When there are no predators on the game reserve, the conservationists often have to ‘manually’ keep the plant eaters in check through culling.

5.
You can’t exist without causing harm to others is just a general statement, nobody said we should cause as much harm as possible, if you are referring to us eating meat, then next time you eat a chocolate think about the palm oil that was used to make the chocolate that is contributing to the extinction of the orangatang.

6.
In the absence of the meat industry there would still be starvation. Take a look what is happening in Yemen and Veneuzeula, it has nothing to do with the meat industry.

1. Appeal to futility fallacy. No, that’s not how capitalism works. Capitalism is perfectly compatible with regulations that prevent slavery, cheap work, and the like. And it has nothing to do with lions’ behavior.

2. The whole “lions though” thing is an appeal to nature AND a tu quoque fallacy. The human body doesn’t care about alpha and beta, it only cares about the nutrients it gets. Lions, on the other hand, can regulate their cholesterol production and process uric acid in a way that we can’t. Lions don’t get atherosclerosis or gout.

3. You can’t say they DIDN’T get diabetes either, and they didn’t eat meat very frequently anyway because it was much more expensive (no growth hormones back then) and hard to preserve (no refrigerators either).

4. Evidence please? And it still doesn’t prove that humans have to be predators.

5. You can be vegan AND avoid palm oil. The best diet is the whole foods vegan diet and, with few exceptions, the best food is vegetable, whole, fresh, local and seasonal. In the country where I live none of that includes palm oil. Even if it was included it would still cause far less harm than animal farming (watch Cowspiracy and see for yourself how flattering the numbers are).

If you genuinely believed that lions are good ethical role models then you would emulate all of their behaviours such as rape, and killing babies, rather than just cherry-picking meat eating as a behaviour you want to justify. The decision to copy lions is entirely arbitrary; you could equally say “I want to be as strong as an elephant by only eating plants”. Why can’t we behave like humans instead though- Be intelligent, civilised and compassionate?

You called me a beta male… I don’t see anything manly about putting estrogen-infused breast milk into our shopping trolleys or conforming to society. When you watch meat industry footage of a grown man beating on defenceless chickens, do you think “I want to be as brave and strong as he is”, or do you see a beta coward trying to feel empowered by preying on the weak? In my eyes, alpha males do the right thing and stand up for others.

In terms of life expectancy, sure there are factors such as war but if we look at cavemen, their life expectancy was around 25-35 years meaning their lifestyle is not a particularly desirable one to emulate. Today we have cutting edge science and technology meaning we can access the healthiest plant foods.

There is an incredibly irony when it comes to population control. Hunters kill all the natural predators, then complain when the prey overpopulates, then use this as an excuse to kill all the prey. Their minds are not intelligent enough to come up with solutions other than killing, plus they enjoy it. If you are concerned about livestock being overpopulated then why are we force-breeding billions more? Humans are obscenely overpopulated and this is leading to the destruction of Earth. By your logic, we should kill humans. Surely there is a better way.

I personally avoid palm oil for the reason you stated. The point is we should be trying to avoid harm to the full extent that is practical and possible, rather than just shrugging and continuing to cause avoidable harm.

I’m not sure what you mean about Yemen and Veneuzeula- These countries buy and consume meat.

Phil I was referring to the fact that in two countries mentioned there are many people starving to death and it is never because of the production of meat or the cultivation of crops, people starve in the third world because of greed in the first world. Saudi Arabia has oil, so America sell them weapons, they bomb Yemen and the people of Yemen starve. They would be happy to eat a chicken or eat a banana. The luxury of arguing over what’s ethical to eat is only a first world problem.

Yes I wish there were less humans on the planet. Many of our problems we would not be experiencing or not to such a detrimental effect if there were less humans.

I was referring to the fact that in nature, even without human intervention, the prey always needs the predator. They sustain each other.

Of course there is nothing alpha about eating meat or eating plants. They are both just a source of energy. The lion analogy was just used because western men today are basically living in the shadow of feminism, I though that was a good behavioural characteristic to take from a lion (the male lions eating before the females). Obviously a male lion killing baby cubs to reduce future challanges to ensure his dominance, is cruel, and not something humans should (or would ever need to) adopt.

Vegetarianism/Veganism is and has been the NWO. We have been deceived to eat plants and grains when in reality they are unnatural and the worst things for us. Particularly now, since real plants barely exist as they are mostly all man-made. Crimes against humanity, right under our noses. So fucked.