Serious guys: What is going to happen to the 40k storyline? Will it ever advance? Will we ever see progress within the races of 40k? I know we get new codices every once in a while and we spot a small increment in the story but we don't really see any Major progression! Do you think we will ever get out of the 41st millenium?

leonmallett

18-10-2007, 18:55

When you think about it, it is rarely a current/'contemporaneous' storyline in the way it was once considered. The 13th Black Crusade aside, many events discussed in the various codexes (I went with codices until noting that in Apocalypse that they are collectively referred to as codexes by GW, or at least Jervis Johnson :) ) are 'historical' rather than happening 'now' (in relative terms).

My answer is that it is a moot point, and why should it change? The Imperium has staggered on for 10 millenia after the Horus Heresy, the Tau Empire rising in that time. The Necrons finally woke up after 60 odd million years or however long. Xenos empires have risen and fallen. The backstory is what defines WH40K in my mind, not what may happen in the 42nd millenium.

Tulun

18-10-2007, 18:55

Serious guys: What is going to happen to the 40k storyline? Will it ever advance? Will we ever see progress within the races of 40k? I know we get new codices every once in a while and we spot a small increment in the story but we don't really see any Major progression! Do you think we will ever get out of the 41st millenium?

As far as I understand it, no...

Progression would likely lead to the fall of Cadia, and that would basically be the end of the Imperium (nothing to hold back the Black Crusade).

I think the problem they have is any major story movements (which would involve the Imperium losing in some way, because otherwise the status quo would remain in effect) would probably screw up the current universe. Things like Dragon waking up on Mars (bound to happen sometime, Necrons waking up), end of Cadia, Armageddon falling, etc...

As far as I can tell, things remain the way they are for good reason ;)

Brother Antonios

18-10-2007, 18:56

The pressure is building, what better way to get everyone to buy 5th edition? Hopefully the new Ork Dex advances the Ork 'Nids plot a little which pushes us ohhh so close or even into 42.

Almost forgot we also get to look forward to the Tau 4th Sphere expansion too. Fall of Cadia should happen, it makes Chaos the Big threat again, currently the 'Crons and 'Nids occupy the big threat role. 14th Black Crusade (if the 13th really ended?) is cool, I think the fiction gets better and new questions getting raised is a cool idea.

Visionary

18-10-2007, 18:58

Or they could only advance certain parts of the story:

"Fall of Cadia? erm... how about we look at the Tau 3rd sphere expansion instead"

Brother Antonios

18-10-2007, 19:05

Or they could only advance certain parts of the story:...

Yea I would buy every armies 5th Edition Codex if it advanced that army properly into the next age background wise.

I thought the Tau were consolidating their 3rd Sphere expansion already after Medusa IV?

Raven1

18-10-2007, 19:09

Well, they said that the 13th black Crusade would have an effect on the game, though I haven't seen the effect at all.

I don't think it really needs to 10,000 years is a long time for constant war. I mean seriously the eldar would like die out or some wierd wouldn't they, honestly how many are left.

Wyatt

18-10-2007, 19:14

It's something I don't really understand.

But it's not as if it's just GW to "blame".

There's no (or not many) rules for Pre-Heresy armies, and yet people still play them. And yet there's no people making post-40k armies.

Imperialis_Dominatus

18-10-2007, 19:49

Ah... every week since I joined.

No, the storyline will not noticably continue. Because soon all the race's 'doomsday plans' will come into effect. Every race has one, pretty much... arrival of new hive fleet, Star Child (yeah I said it :p), Rhana Dhandra (sic), Abbadon's victory and march on Terra, return of the Primarchs, Mork and Gork wake up and whup ass, Ynnead, etc. etc. Oh wait Tau? Errrr... well, not every insignificant alien empire can have a 'revalations' vision of the future to come. Especially an atheistic one. :D

Gaebriel

18-10-2007, 20:15

I guess they will never continue their storyline out of concern of destabilizing things. Though that is an unnecessary concern, because having a continueing storyline doesn't necessarily mean, changing the way the game is played.

Battletech had a very good grip on that, having a brilliantly moving storyline, which merely moved borders, but didn't invallidate any of the existing factions, even when new ones showed up. And though they put out a new class of technology, this didn't stop anyone to play with the established, if they wanted.

So, having a continueing storyline is not so much needed as having a living, moving one. For readers of three editions of the game, it gets a bit boring to get a rehash of the same every time - though, to be fair, they have made miniscule improvements (over 20 years...).

A problem is that the studio doesn't get their numbers right - a galaxy like that of 40k is HUGE, and allows for a lot of change, exchange and damage without changing the basics. The Imperium - realistically put - wouldn't shatter from the loss of a single Forge World, Sector or even a gateway like Cadia.

trigger

18-10-2007, 20:16

NO i doubt it ,
How would they?
However i did hear when 3rd ed was scedualed for release it was suppose to be further in the futer.

As for the thirteenth black crusade GW have already said they will never do any thing that big again as it was a disaster.
Whitch makes you think if marines are the biggist seller ,How were chaose winning for so long??????
And how did they end up loseing , ( cospirecy theories not welcome, we know GW riged it) and again were gw expecting the good guys to lose?
Again on my point madusa iv , everybody won #( mostly )

All this leads to another question

Would you want them to?:confused:

Karhedron

18-10-2007, 20:19

40K is not a storyline as such, it is a setting!

GW will only advance the fluff where necessary to sell new models, such as they did in the new Tau codex. The "current" time in 40K is M40.999, all the events in 40K are considered historical. The background exists for people to tell their own stories and create their own characters.

Huoshini

18-10-2007, 20:21

I don't really want a massive progression through years of combat. I really just want more story tacked onto the game.

When fantasy campaigns were actually fun, they released campaign books that gave additional story. Then in brought more depth to the game. It gives not only the game more fluff, but it gives the players more. More to talk about, more to gloat about, more to role-play. But thats how the game is for me-models and fluff mainly. Space marines- They all look the same to me. One might be bigger or has a bigger gun. Orcs- same orc diffrent weapon eldar- Most visualy appealing amry and i have no real gripes. Lol, i could go on and on but i have to get back to work.

Karhedron

18-10-2007, 20:27

However i did hear when 3rd ed was scedualed for release it was suppose to be further in the futer.
Yes, in the mid-90s, GW seriously considered moving the setting a couple of thousand years further into the future. The idea was "activate" all the doomsday plans that they had written into the fluff. Basically Cypher would have reached Terra and killed the Emperor which would have unleashed all kinds of hell. Literally!

The idea was Leman Russ would have returned (from wherever he had been) to lead the Space Wolves, Roboute Guilleman and Lion El Johnson would have woken up to lead their respective chapters and Sanguinius would have returned by possessing Mephinston rather like a greater daemon. The idea would have been the Primarchs battling to hold the Imperium together against the onslaught of Chaos long enough for the Star Child to be born.

However GW abandoned the idea fairly early on and proceed to produce 3rd edition as we saw it. Their reasons were fairly sensible. If they used up all their plot hooks in one mamoth push, what would they do afterwards? The 43K project would basically have focused on the Imperium, Chaos and the Eldar to a lesser extent. Other races such as Orks and Nids would have been pretty marginalised in the storyline. There would certainly have been no room for new races like the Necrons, Tau or Dark Eldar.

Although it might have been fun, I think that GW would have effectively "burned-out" 40K if they had gone ahead with it. The smart thing to do from a sales perspective was to keep the setting pretty much the same and just add new details rather than really progressing it.

El Presedente

18-10-2007, 20:30

I think the problem is any major advancement is going to suck for the imperial players, 4 sphere, fall of cadia, hive fleets etc, If there's going to be an advancement then it should be imperium on the offencive.

Personally I'd love to see something like the emperours death leading to no great catastropy but a power change, high lords take over or radical commanders instigate a coup, imperium becomes less xenophobic, inquisition and marines get ousted into their own renegade factions leading to a good excuse for imperial v imperial battles for once, and some marines and co could have been in on the coup.

Come to think of it that would be really awesome, and would lead to dozens of great scenarios, too bad now I've said it it probably won't happen.

Huoshini

18-10-2007, 20:52

OMG An original idea that sounds plausible!!! G-dub should read this forum more frequently!!! MAKE THIS HAPPEN LOL! I'd love to see sisters as a renegade faction.

G-Dub- Un Pimp Your game!
had to say it..

Chaplain Dionitas

18-10-2007, 20:57

Or Cypher could just get to terra kill the emperor and THEN.....nothing. Wow how anti-climatic

DasAtomkind

18-10-2007, 21:19

Id love to see sisters as a renegade faction.

Haha, you wish. Fluffwise, there is no way this would happen. ;)

Personally, I think the story will not evolve, since as someone up here correctly mentioned, this is supposed to be a setting, not a story per se. Or at least it is no more a story, if it ever was.

And the fall of Cadia ? Meh, you should rather be concerned about the bugs, because in the fluff section of the Tyranid Codex, GW has waaaaaay overblown the proposed size a strenght of the Hive Fleet Leviathan, which, after devouring Orks, would return and IMO wouldn't be stopped by anything. Unless GW would yet AGAIN feed us with some ridiculous story of a miraculous victory against nigh-impossible odds...;)

Chaplain Ark

18-10-2007, 22:04

Serious guys: What is going to happen to the 40k storyline? Will it ever advance? Will we ever see progress within the races of 40k? I know we get new codices every once in a while and we spot a small increment in the story but we don't really see any Major progression! Do you think we will ever get out of the 41st millennium?

If we did get out of the 41st mellennia, it wouldn't be war hammer 40k, would it? it would be war hammer 40,001. now that doesnt have the same ring to it does it?

Iracundus

18-10-2007, 22:07

Advancing the storyline doesn't mean to the point of reaching the endgame or the doomsday scenario necessarily. In the previous editions, GW has inched the time forward slightly without doing that and they could certainly inch it forward again. Little details can be added and progress made on each race's storyline. That is still timeline advancement without really causing the end of the universe.

Imperial players complaining about Cadia should just come to terms with the fact they lost the campaign through their own fault. I've posted many times about how the campaign mechanics worked (as was deduced by the Chaos Triad and as was confirmed by the GW White Dwarf article), and the Imperials lost through a combination of their own refusal to cooperate and work on a grand strategic level, not through any conspiracy of GW. It's been literally years now and it's amazing how some players are still trying to find any excuse for losing up to and including far fetched conspiracies, instead of the simple fact the other side played better using the campaign mechanics.

That said, Cadia doesn't need to fall per se, even though it may no longer be the gate against the Eye. It can be a sort of Stalingrad scenario where the pocket of defenders is still holding out, even while the bulk of the Chaos forces sweep past it to attack the rest of the Imperium. Abaddon breaking out of the Imperial cordon doesn't suddenly mean he's at Terra

Wyatt

18-10-2007, 22:11

Or Cypher could just get to terra kill the emperor and THEN.....nothing. Wow how anti-climatic

I reckon the Emporer's dead and has been for 10,000 years, so yeah. Nothing.

To be honest it would be a pretty boring storyline. No races wiped out at all, otherwise they'd have to cut product lines.

(Though they did get rid of squats...)

Deus Mechanicus

19-10-2007, 00:13

Would't it be awesome if all the Marines were wiped out and Sisters of Battle took their place?

Invader Nails

19-10-2007, 00:29

I for one think that the Cadian gate really SHOULD be made to fall in the fluff.

The innumerable Black Crusades are just getting comically ridiculous. Abaddon nowadays is less a scary lord of death and destruction and more a bad comic book villain, trying to kill Spider-Man and failing for the 616th time. Chaos itself looks rather paltry in comparison to the Tyranids and Necrons.

LET CADIA FALL.

Then the Imperium would have to widen its defensive front against the Eye of Terror, which would immediately open up the setting for more Chaos vs. Imperium/Eldar battles. Fighting over a single world forever isn't as interesting as fighting over a hundred differents worlds, where each side wins some and loses some and the front lines are always changing.

It would be more interesting, more believable, and it would give Chaos its groove back.

LoneSniperSG

19-10-2007, 00:50

I've decided not to let myself be influenced by previous posts, so if my thoughts seem stolen, too bad, they aren't.

You are not the only one who has thought of this. I've dwelt on thoughts of the Primarchs, of Russ and the Khan, of Guilliman and Corax, those with the chance to return. I believe, the only way for the story to advance after the 41st millennium, is to see the Imperium falter and come so delicately close to shattering. (After reading the lore of Battlefleet Gothic, and how widespread the Imperial Navy is, I believe this eventuality more than any other. The navy is like a beaver dam trying to hold back a tidal wave.) After the Navy crumbles, the Marines are left to front space defense with their scant few ships, or to try to rally to Segmentum Solar; the most ideal option for the Guard, the Navy and the Marines to keep operational, but given the Imperium's stupid-**** stubbornness, well.. this may not happen.

Anyway.. The imperium falls to crap.. and in the most desperate hour, glory to the Emporer! Russ, Corax, the Lion, the Khan and Vulkan appear.. They, along with apothecaries, bring about the revival of Guilliman, and begin to unite the Marines in another Crusade. (not sure about Dorn.. still speculating on his fate, since we only have his hand). Then, with the pressure of the Xenos/Chaos, All who dare turn to the Emporer and apply their talents toward his revival, which will probably bring about the willing suicide of just about every librarian and sanctioned psyker left. Emporer willing, there would probably be some last alliance effort, with the Tau, the Eldar and the Imperium. (Purists may debate this, but come on. Not -every- Imperial is stupid)

.. And Iracundus, Cadia isn't very close to Terra, but it's close enough that you could blaze by Fenris and several other planets and arrive on Earth's doorstep. I've stared at the chart long enough to figure such a thing, but then again, I could be wrong. But as far as a bulwark against Chaos, I think the Necrons have actually been handling that, what with their supposed destruction of the Blackstone Fortresses Abaddon had left.

The imperium is lucky that Chaos is not the only other force in the galaxy. Lucky, and unlucky.

Would't it be awesome if all the Marines were wiped out and Sisters of Battle took their place?

... That is the 40k of my nightmares. Humanity wouldn't have a chance at all.

[SD] Bob Plisskin

19-10-2007, 01:55

GW have enough work to do without having to come up with a new storyline! Seriously they've dug themselves into a hole with all the races and systems, and don't have enough time to come up with new fluff, even background wise most(all?) of the stuff in the Marines, Chaos and Eldar codex is old news, stuff you could have gleamed from the 2nd edition codexar.

Finn

19-10-2007, 02:35

OR.....

You could make yourself a campaign, play yourself some great 40K, and advance the storyline for your own enjoyment. If you want, post it online.

Ktotwf

19-10-2007, 02:42

It is scientific fact that 99.9% of all 40k Fanboys' visions of the future after 40,999 are crap.

Brother Antonios

19-10-2007, 03:11

Bob Plisskin;2016649']GW have enough work to do without having to come up with a new storyline! Seriously they've dug themselves into a hole with all the races and systems, and don't have enough time to come up with new fluff, even background wise most(all?) of the stuff in the Marines, Chaos and Eldar codex is old news, stuff you could have gleamed from the 2nd edition codexar.

The problem is we KNOW they can't get the "other stuff" right, even trying their hardest they will make some players mad, make other's quit, make some sell thier current army and go with a new one. For years now they have shown a generally lack of fixing what they have, not making it better. Instead they just press ahead with new systems, the new systems are clearly not bad at all Apoc. COD all fine and fun but how much better they could be if they could get the core and Codexe's right, FAQ them, have a Q&A on their site with the game developers not just a Giant catalog!

No matter how much we hope that's not going to happen, leaving just the background advancement as the last bastion of hope in a dark grim future.

I'll give them a chance with Rev 5, but at least if they advance the background (even a little into 41,000) for each race, I would know I have something to look forward to. Some of the BL plots have already pushed into 41K, time for the game to follow.

carlisimo

19-10-2007, 03:50

Cadia could've fallen, its hives evacuated and the Cadian IG existing as an army who've lost their homeworld. Doesn't screw over anyone who has a Cadian army. But the Disorder victory wasn't that complete, and the forces of Order did control the space around the planet, so a stalemate's fair.

I find the Void Dragon on Mars idea really interesting. While they claim it's just a sub-cult, I'd guess that the Adeptus Mechanicus as a whole knows and will take sides with the Dragon when he comes out. And then it's civil war, with the Imperium in a precarious position.

Deadmanwade

19-10-2007, 06:21

GW have a problem in that there are too many Galaxy Wide threats.
The Nids, Crons and Chaos are all just sat there waiting to kill everything, but there is little or no interaction between them. The Nids even avoid the Necrons if they can. (The wimps). I'd like to see a Tyranid/Necron war! The living metal vs the organic machine. Place your bets now please.
Doesnt Abaddon care that even IF he does get to Terra and smash the place, he's going to be gutted by a gauss weapon or have his DNA harvested before he can say "I'm better than Horus"
The Tau, Eldar (and Dark), and the Orks are great villains for the 40K universe. They're all a threat to the Imperium without being in a position to conquer the universe. The other 3 are just ridiculously overpowered with their planet eating, sun eating or planet killing weapons.
Fluff wise the Imperium has 1,000,000 worlds. But every week they're losing hundreds to the various forces around them. Plus, once chaos take over a planet for any length of time its a write off. The Imperium keeps viral bombing Tyranid planets (and potential targets). Any 41K story line should start with the Imperium realising they only have 3 planets left. "Whoops, maybe we should have saved a couple."
If the Emperor should return, the first thing he should do is bitch slap the entire Adeptus Mechanicus. From all the fluff, they're responsible for 99% of all the bad stuff to happen in the Imperium. If in 10,000 years they had thought to actually innovate then the Imperium would be sitting pretty with plasma guns that worked. Ships that could beat the Nids, and Imperial Guardsmen armed with more than a flashlight.

Thorisian

19-10-2007, 06:45

Well the idea of 'The end of the Imperium as we know it' has been bandied about since the end of 2nd ed. I seem to recalle there was even a huge rumor on portent (or was the the mailing list) that 4th ed was going to be WH 50K etc.

While I think the idea is an interesting one, there are some considerations that prevent GW from 'moving forward'. For one thing, imho, GW wants a stable environment for their fluff, nothing drastic changes. Its easier for them to incorporate in 'new' stuff over the 'stagnant' ten thousand years after the Heresy then to start anew. Even in their global campaigns sure a few dozen imperial planets gets eaten/razed/taken, and a few special characters get bumped off, but in the end everything falls back to 'status quo'. They don't want to change things or move forward imho because they need a constant and sustainable environment in which to base their game.

Suppose they do move the story forward, and the Imperium falls. What then? How are they going to make it so that it's not just another, albeit a very large, summer campaign that people would want a resolution to by the end of the year? I'm sure it would be great for a few months, and would put the whole 40k community on a veritable knife's edge with excitement, but how long can they sustain that? The most important question is how many years can they milk that? :D I can see people going 'isn't this conflict resolved yet already?'

Although if you want feel free to write up that campaign and post it on how things turn out :)

Iracundus

19-10-2007, 11:07

Those fans hoping and dreaming of advancement leading to a final showdown and the end of 40K are bound to be disappointed. As I already mentioned on the previous page, storyline advancement can happen without necessitating universe or Imperium ending apocalyptic events. It happened in previous editions (timeline crawled forward past 2nd War of Armageddon to the end of the 3rd, from Behemoth to Leviathan). Things can inch forward without invoking the each race's "ultimate plan", and that sort of advancement is what GW should be doing.

spambidextrous

19-10-2007, 12:07

GW have a problem in that there are too many Galaxy Wide threats.
The Nids, Crons and Chaos are all just sat there waiting to kill everything, but there is little or no interaction between them. The Nids even avoid the Necrons if they can. (The wimps). I'd like to see a Tyranid/Necron war! The living metal vs the organic machine. Place your bets now please.
Doesnt Abaddon care that even IF he does get to Terra and smash the place, he's going to be gutted by a gauss weapon or have his DNA harvested before he can say "I'm better than Horus"

I think that GW have certainly backed themselves into a corner by representing the threat of the Crons and the Nids as so huge, and whilst in terms of the fluff Chaos does not seem to be as proportionally big a danger at the moment, I think it is safe to assume that it is still supposed to be on a par with the threat of Fantasy Chaos in that it is there, is basically indestructable, and will inevitably expand to consume everything.

However, I think with a little thought GW could turn this seeming problem into an advantage. As Deadmanwade has said, we have these three uber-destroyers out there, but they hardly ever seem to run into each other, which is just ludicrous given the supposed scale of the threat. If GW were to develop a coherant rationalle behind the three of them getting involved in an almighty slugfest they could legitimatley advance the timeframe a little.

For example, at the moment, the 40k fluff suggests it's a numbers game, with the Imperium, Orcs, Eldar, Tau, and whoever else just treading water before they get overrun. Having the Crons, Nids, and Chaos fighting each other would represent three factions with inexhaustable numbers and Godlike power involved in an unwinable war of attrition. This would then give breathing space for the beleaugured other races to regroup a little and then hit back offensively rather than having to fight what is currently portrayed as a loosing rearguard action all the time. The fact that the three uber-destoryers were preoccupied beating each other up would also allow room for fluffy interaction between other races, which currently seems a little forced given that they are all supposed to be getting whupped by the Nids/Crons/Chaos conglomerate of evil.

I guess the only problem in doing this would be that most of the Fluff tends to be written from a kind of humanoid perspective, i.e, Imperials, Orcs, Eldar and Tau looking at the big three with a mixture of awe and horror. Starting off a huge three-way rumble would decentre the traditional 40k universe a bit, but it could still be done fairly easily - just have Inquisitors or Eldar scouts giving reports from these almost incomprehensible battles between legions of deamons and bioforms. It would be frickin cool!

And there are some fundamental answers to some perplexing questions I want answered anyway. Like can a Zoanthrope be cut off from the Hive mind and corrupted by a Chaos God? And what happens when a Ripper Swarm tries to eat a Great Unclean One? Surely there are some meals even the Nids can't keep down without a Rennie... :eyebrows:

Iracundus

19-10-2007, 12:40

GW has already invoked the "aliens fighting each other" with the Leviathan fleet slamming into an Ork enclave and bogging down there. That said, the Necrons and Tyranids can be made to fight each other. Though Tyranids don't feed on dead Necron worlds due to the high cost of fighting for little reward, not all Necron tombs are on totally dead worlds. Some of their tombs are on worlds that have regrown or had life seeded. Likewise the Necrons might decide to take the fight to the Tyranids as the Tyranids are a threat to the long term Necron plans of reducing the galaxy to a big cattle pen for the C'tan to feed off of. The Necron super-tech vs. the Tyranid numbers and massive mobile ecosystem would create a conflict that would weaken both sides so as to give other races more of a chance. The Eldar could also take advantage of this time to raid and topple parts of the Necrons' Great Work (so that the Necron ultimate plan's success seems less guaranteed).

Chaos is easier. The Cadian Gate isn't Terra. Abaddon breaking through the Gate still means he has a long slog to Terra, and that trudge can be portrayed and slowed by the Imperium's reshuffling of forces, so once again Chaos isn't guaranteed a win even if the story advances past Cadia.

For the Eldar, more could be made of their successes on the Crone Worlds during the Eye of Terror campaign. They pretty much retook one Crone World and established enclaves of sanity on another. There can be some exploration of what these gains mean for them or what items they recover from the shattered remains of their pre-Fall worlds. There is also the Eldar reaction to the resurgent Necron threat. Once again this would be advancement without getting to Rhana Dandra or Ynnead.

All of these are examples of background advancement and exploration without going the tired route of "OMGZ the Primarchs R BACK!!!!11!" No races end up being wiped out, and it's not quite the same status quo.

mistformsquirrel

19-10-2007, 13:13

One thing I think people forget all too regularly:

40k is not a book series, TV show, or anything else of that nature. It can have such things based off of it - but in and of itself, it is a *backdrop*. Yes, you can advance the timeline in a backdrop - but in truth, why worry with it? I mean heck, we've already got (rightly), people doing armies from everywhere from the Heresy (and before), all the way into M42; do we really *need* the over-arching story to advance? I don't think so. I think it makes much more sense for small stories - stories of particular characters, particular armies and campaigns, to advance; but the overarching backdrop needs to stay relatively stable. Otherwise it creates problems where they write themselves into a corner even worse than usual.

Promethius

19-10-2007, 15:21

Interestingly, the Cain books are dated about a hundred years into the 42nd millenium - implying that the doomsday scenarios didn't happen. Really, all GW would have to do is move the setting a few hundred years forward and explain why everything didn't come to a head - some spectacular effort that averted disaster & returned the imperium to the standard "advance a bit here, fall back a bit there" stalemate.

Lord Malorne

19-10-2007, 15:31

AH! my favorite topic...progression. To progress you do not have to change anything at all!

Look at it this way...10,000 years of war, well lets have another 10,000 years. all we want is it to move forward, for there to be a new campaign about x featuring y.

just imagine all the possible storlines which are cool yet have no effect what so ever on the overall story! thousands if not millions of habitable planets each with its own unique features and possible xenos race allows a galaxy of growth.

But yes as gamers we should be given the right to shape if not change the storyline!

Start a petition!

Ktotwf

19-10-2007, 15:42

The very fact that there is so little change is emblematic of the fact that the Imperium is engaged in eternal war.

J-Eire8

19-10-2007, 15:56

For God's sake, why are so many people lusting after such huge facelifts to the setting? The overall themes are awesome as they are, obviously this is why you have an intellectual investment and are theorizing in the first place. GW can do amazing things without having Ynnead born, the emperor killed (Why have I heard that some want/think Cypher will take his place? Wack) or waking up the primarchs. They've already said Maugan Ra's craftworld survived the eye, that brings huge opportunities for expanding upon eldar's war/relationship w/ chaos and the Crone Worlds. Thats pretty big in my opinion, they just need time to flesh it out. And what about the Space Wolves 13th company? I remember reading about their disappearance back in 2nd edition, they had been made part of the mythology of 40k. Then w/ the 13th black crusade, GW pulled them out of oblivion, and we've yet to see how that dynamic plays out. That is in my mind, huge. I doubt/can't imagine them expanding this play to the lost legions, but I think you've got to give them credit for it. These are just a few examples, but GW obviously knows how to expand the storyline in meaningful ways, they just seem unneccesarily reluctant to do so. Insisting that the Imperium needs to fall, cataclysm must destroy the old order etc. is just undermining legitimate desires for movement within the setting.

Iracundus, Spambidextrous, mad respect, I hadn't read your wise and rational responses until I had this all typed out.

Mechanicus

19-10-2007, 16:39

Look at it this way...10,000 years of war, well lets have another 10,000 years. all we want is it to move forward, for there to be a new campaign about x featuring y.

just imagine all the possible storlines which are cool yet have no effect what so ever on the overall story! thousands if not millions of habitable planets each with its own unique features and possible xenos race allows a galaxy of growth.And why can't they happen in the ten thousand years we've already got that are mostly unexplored? Even with the Tau, a recent species to appear, you've got three hundred years to play with. Same with Tyranids, not to mention the forgotten fleets... :confused:

Chilltouch

19-10-2007, 17:04

The only chance of advancing the storyline is by killing off a race due to lack of purchase - for example, they might say that the Webway section that contained Commoragh collapsed and obliterated the majority of the Dark Eldar, or that the Ordo Hereticus were deemed as a rather useless force by the High Lords of Terra and was removed from the Inquisition, along with its chamber militant in the Year 41,000.

DasAtomkind

19-10-2007, 19:25

GW has already invoked the "aliens fighting each other" with the Leviathan fleet slamming into an Ork enclave and bogging down there. That said, the Necrons and Tyranids can be made to fight each other. Though Tyranids don't feed on dead Necron worlds due to the high cost of fighting for little reward, not all Necron tombs are on totally dead worlds.
All of these are examples of background advancement and exploration without going the tired route of "OMGZ the Primarchs R BACK!!!!11!" No races end up being wiped out, and it's not quite the same status quo.

Um, I'm under the impression, that Tyranids DO feed even on the Necrons. I think I read somewhere in the Fluff, that the digestion pools are quite enough to digest even the living metal - after all, the bugs need some material substance to harden their carapaces and talons, don't they ?

J-Eire8

19-10-2007, 19:39

Um, I'm under the impression, that Tyranids DO feed even on the Necrons. I think I read somewhere in the Fluff, that the digestion pools are quite enough to digest even the living metal - after all, the bugs need some material substance to harden their carapaces and talons, don't they ?

nope. you've been lied to dog

Chilltouch

19-10-2007, 19:51

Tyranids consume everything, a lot of them probably even take in Living Metal - there's most likely no substance immune to their disgestion. There's nothing to say their various digestive pools don't work on Wraithbone or Living Metal.

Chaplain Ark

19-10-2007, 20:45

Um, I'm under the impression, that Tyranids DO feed even on the Necrons. I think I read somewhere in the Fluff, that the digestion pools are quite enough to digest even the living metal - after all, the bugs need some material substance to harden their carapaces and talons, don't they ?

Even though im pretty sure they don't feed on necrons, they dont need them to strengthen thier armor, they eat enough Sm power armor to supply the hive mind with a four foot thick steel plating.

J-Eire8

19-10-2007, 23:09

Tyranids consume everything, a lot of them probably even take in Living Metal - there's most likely no substance immune to their disgestion. There's nothing to say their various digestive pools don't work on Wraithbone or Living Metal.

I disagree strongly. All tyranid lore states they are concerned only with biological material. If they were interested in non-organics, then Kryptman's exterminatus technique wouldn't have worked as well as it had. Also, its been stated countless times the 'nids ignore dead worlds and so forth. They've hit forgeworld, but despite the industrial focus, the Mechanicus labor requirements rely on huge populations of workers/servitors, still making it worth the while for tyranids. Also, in all the post-consumption imagery GW has published, it still shows things like buildings/monuments and all that standing. If the nids were interested in basic minerals there would be nothing but crumbly grey rubble. Nids get NOTHING from necrons.

Ktotwf

20-10-2007, 00:10

The point is that the Tyranids would fight the Necrons simply because the Necrons would attack the Tyranids. Even insects will fight if they are attacked.

Also, Tyranids may well simply fight the Necrons because the Hive Mind deems it a good decision.

J-Eire8

20-10-2007, 00:21

True indeed.

Brother Antonios

20-10-2007, 02:01

And why can't they happen in the ten thousand years we've already got that are mostly unexplored? Even with the Tau, a recent species to appear, you've got three hundred years to play with. Same with Tyranids, not to mention the forgotten fleets... :confused:

Except they've already put in some hard and fast really interesting stories in 41,999. GW has some hangover about going into 42 even though the BL is already there. Making a slow move into 42 still lets them explore all those "three hundred years" so I'm not sure why anyone argues against it? It just makes sense they are just obessing over the number at GW. They don't have to change the name, they don't have to unleashe any Doomsday plots they just need to be creative which should be one of their strong points.

Chilltouch

20-10-2007, 08:18

Well, when one planet was tyranoformed, it became 6% smaller than it was before and it did become a lifeless ball of gray rubble.

The Tyranids probably only take as much stuff as they need - heck, they even siphon up the oceans a lot of the time. I say they leave so much of the world behind because the earth would be full of useless elements and compounds that they have already drained enough of from it.

They probably do take in as much as they need, store it away and then use the billions of different compounds and elements gathered to create new creatures after the Hive Mind takes in the atomic composition and the like - thus why Tyranid beasts often have 'diamond-hard claws' and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tyranids are doing their best to replicate the atomic structures of living metal and attempt to utilize it - but, it has been said that Necrons are the best scientists in the galaxy and that's probably why the Tyranids aren't using living metal - they don't understand it.

Eetion

20-10-2007, 11:31

One small change id like to see.. The Tyranid dex mentions that a need of 500% increase in mobolisation would be needed to slow the nids advance.
Id like to see that happen, an ancient directive of the Administratum, X ammount of worlds have been lost, activating the contingency plan. That way the the Nids dont quite have that all consumng unstoppable terror sort of feeling.

Maybe allow chaos the Cadian gate, and executing the same idea to contain them, though im less keen on that.

Id also like the orks and Tau stories fleshed out with this regards, orks have already been mentioned. But id liek to explore the possibilities of the or the 3rd Sphere Defence rather than a 4th Sphere Expansion.