Am I the only one here who is completely boggled by the concept that it would be easy to collect the plastic without causing great harm to the marine life??? For a start, take a look at some of the most plentiful species out in the vicinity of the gyre.

If you try to harvest the semi-submerged plastic, you will harvest and kill these living creatures. It's not just the jellys -- consider the plankton and similar lifeforms, many of which are the same size and density as the plastics you would be scooping up.

I'm all for people trying to devise clever methods to clean the plastic out of the sea, but the concepts that I've seen so far appear to be based on a complete misunderstanding of the problem.

No, you're not the only one. I'm not saying it would be easy. And I don't think anyone here got a contract to start cleaning the gyre-yet This is discussion or maybe more likely wishing it could be so.. I agree we need to look at the consequences to the fixes. Many times our fixes cause more problems.

The links I included with scientists discussing cleaning the gyre shows the challenges- but I don't think that ideas can't be discussed or we should give up looking at ways to clean up the mess. Even if only reducing it. We have solved so many difficult problems in the past. This needs all of us working on a solution. Solutions arise from free discussions-often because the person 'doesn't understand it can't be done.'

Stopping plastics pollution at the source is first priority-such as using a biodegradeable plastic- like material and recycling what's out there now. The water bottles have reduced the amount of plastic used because of pressure-we need to keep it going. Sunchips stopped making their biodegradeable bags because the were loud when handled. Too bad. They needed to stick to their goals.

Bobandconnie said it very well. It causes me great pain to think of the problem and how little I can do. I have children who I hope could enjoy the world as I have-but we sure have messed it up. I was at the first Earth Day (1969) and have seen many problems improve enormously so I still have hope we can beat this. It just lasts so long.

So where does the stuff come from? The source! Never see plastic in local waters of the highly urbanized waters of the San Francisco estuary. If I was to guess (without any factual data), I'd say eastern Asia.

The only positive thing I can say about them is that they would likely break down long before they had a chance to do much harm.

This is the core of the problem. PlAstics do NOT break down. Most have lifespans in the millions of years. What they do is break into smaller and smaller particles interfering with ever more fundamental parts of the food chain. They are being mistaken for plankton by marine life.

Regarding processing without harm. It is very doable. For example you can process only sub surface water...

Also you may have an image of giant sucking tubes that destroy all life in the filtering process... There are many other options and tech available that can process with minimal harm including not harming larger marine mammals.

As you mention environmental problems are always best tackled at the source however in this case the existing waste need to be dealt with as it is causing havoc and over time will cause even greater havoc.

Think of plastics like nuclear waste, they have an even longer half life....

__________________"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now." William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."Sidonie Gabrielle Colette

I would have thought that the easy answer is to suck out the garbage from the densest part of the patch (the centre?) on a regular basis, as and when it becomes dense enough again (basically using the ocean to collect the plastic debris - as it does already) - rather than do so on the whole area. Obviously will be a lot of dead stuff - but as it is for the greater good, then everything has to pay a price - but it wouldn't kill everything in the whole area.

Doesn't look good. I didn't realise that once the plastic photo degrades into micro plastic it can then descend down over 100meters. So to really address the problem we would have to filter the top 100meters of the gyre?

Wow, not feeling positive about a solution now....

__________________"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now." William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."Sidonie Gabrielle Colette

Ironically this was mentioned last night on tv
@ 25 million tons of plastic are dumped in the worlds oceans each year. When UV and waves break it down into beads, it settles on the sea bed in layers and are estimated will form rock layers in millions of years time.

If it could be harvested, it can be turned into oil by boiling it down to a liquid. 1kg of plastic makes 1kg of oil. This oil can be burned as it is as a heatingfuel or turned into diesel with a little refinment.

There is no way I can see that you could do one task, remove the plastic, without damaging the balance needed to support that food chain.

I don't think there is a simple answer...

Agreed.

One possible way might be to introduce a strain of plastic eating bacteria into the area. There are strains of bacteria feeding on crude oil, so with a bit of genetic engineering a strain which decomposes/digests some plastics should be obtainable. This has its own set of problems though and would require great care and forethought. One side effect might make composite boat owners quite unhappy...

One possible way might be to introduce a strain of plastic eating bacteria into the area. There are strains of bacteria feeding on crude oil, so with a bit of genetic engineering a strain which decomposes/digests some plastics should be obtainable. This has its own set of problems though and would require great care and forethought. One side effect might make composite boat owners quite unhappy...

This may be a mixed blessing, in that more surface cover is provided for the small marine life which requires surface cover to develop.
I am told by the charter fishermen that they troll near the beds of Sargassum weed around here, because thats where the big Pelagic fish hangout, picking off the smaller ones.
Size boost to the cycle.

This is the core of the problem. PlAstics do NOT break down. Most have lifespans in the millions of years. What they do is break into smaller and smaller particles interfering with ever more fundamental parts of the food chain. They are being mistaken for plankton by marine life.

Regarding processing without harm. It is very doable. For example you can process only sub surface water...

Also you may have an image of giant sucking tubes that destroy all life in the filtering process... There are many other options and tech available that can process with minimal harm including not harming larger marine mammals.

As you mention environmental problems are always best tackled at the source however in this case the existing waste need to be dealt with as it is causing havoc and over time will cause even greater havoc.

Think of plastics like nuclear waste, they have an even longer half life....

Please re-read what I wrote. I was saying that the debris collection inventions (all still on the drawing board) would break down. I'll be glad if they break down because they will probably do more harm than good to the marine environment.

Sure, you can fairly easily manage to not scoop up the larger fish. That's not the problem. If you do try to strain out everything from the top few meters that has the characteristics of this degraded plastic, you will also have collected most of the plankton that the larger species feed on (plankton includes jellys, seaweed, larvae, etc). You will scoop up or damage the juvenile fish. You will have disrupted the entire ecosystem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Old Jersey

I would have thought that the easy answer is to suck out the garbage from the densest part of the patch (the centre?) on a regular basis, as and when it becomes dense enough again (basically using the ocean to collect the plastic debris - as it does already) - rather than do so on the whole area. Obviously will be a lot of dead stuff - but as it is for the greater good, then everything has to pay a price - but it wouldn't kill everything in the whole area.

There is no densest part of the patch. Or if there is, it moves with the season, with the winds, etc. There are eddies -- it's pretty chaotic, and the density is only statistically greater at the "center".

Take a look at the photos I posted way back in this thread. That's what it looks like in the gyre. If all you've seen are the photos put out there by reporters and advocacy groups, then you have no idea of the reality, and all your well-meaning proposals for garbage collection are misguided at best.

There are to be sure occasional clumps of floating debris, and I doubt if I've personally seen the worst, but these are small and far between -- no more than a few square feet of tangled net and floats. There is no "Texas-sized" island, and I doubt if there is even a Lichtenstein-sized region of sub-surface debris with a density that would make collection even a remote possibility.

Location: from Houston, TX; currently berthed in Barcelona, headed west

Boat: Amel SM 53 - BeBe

Posts: 946

Re: Pacific Garbage Dump

Last year I read about a study that had been performed on the Pacific Garbage Patch. Much to the researchers' surprise, they found that plastic actually is degrading to microscopic size particles at a far more rapid pace than ever imagined. And the Patch has created an entire eco-system beneath it, found lots of fish and marine creatures of all sizes. The idea of collecting this plastic is ludicrous. The first Asian typhoon will create another Patch.