Remember, the best challenges in life are the worst nightmares of the
affraid one's and the sweet dream of the opportunists. If you became an
Admin, then ask for the training, read, read and read. Either online
documentation, books etc. etc.
The most you know about the hardware you have in your site, the better you
are and more appreciation you get from your employer. Then in turn the
employer will see you as a good investment or a ROI (Return Of Investments).

My father got me invovled, but I was going to be a R&D dude who did the
grunt basics R&D stuff (I knew the basics of computer and the
internet... I knew how to search and write VB programs and such -- stuff
I condier basics for a SA).
Since I was cheap, I became the dude that fixed computers. Then I became
the guy that took care of all the comptuers, then I built the servers,
etc.
I just kinda accidently walked into it.
I have very negative emotions towards my employer and whatever opinoins
I have towards them, they are the ones getting me hired (hopefully soon
-- due to me experience here) at a signifigantly better place.
So, while it may be a nightmare (and David is correct, nightmares are
the best thing to learn from and give you the best oppurtinities...).
From what I've learned from OpenITX is that it's better to work in a
smaller place and be a jack of all trades, so you learn the basics of
everything and allows you to make a better decision on what you want to
be. It sucks... badly, but it's the best round trip method, I think.
More often than not, you get abused (not physically, but just asked to
do more than what you were 'supposed' to do...) but it's the second job
after that were life starts improving.
I've been doing this for two years now full time, so take this with a
grain of salt -- for they are mere opinoins of a young admin.

Well, one questions, my current position is as IT Admin not sys admin. This position was created for me cause I am responsible in all IT stuff in the company. Then my employee told me that sysadmin is responsible only on system.

My responsible from hardware, software and system server. Basically, I am working in a very small company where I am the only employee. My company is during more on Research and development and training. As you said when working in small company, you intend to learn a lots of things...I have no doubt that I have learn alots of things but I could said I am not expertise or major in some area.

So, I think if you have no direction on which area to be, you better work in small company and find your own path from there. I am also agree the opinion below..thanks.

Kenny,
Many of us (I speak for experience), have done that, which in turn is
paying the dues to Technology. Think ahead of the path that you are
developing and where you could be going, don't see it as it is now, but see
it as it will be in many years from now.
Its a good start to be able to get a good foundation on computer systems,
networking, administration, user account management, hardware,
troubleshooting, cabling, repair *(in other words break and fix)*.

And when I said, that I speak for experience, I mean, I was doing the same
in a small shop, that is where I developed more of my skills.
Also, try to concentrate on learning on automation skills, like progamming
the computers to call you when something goes down. Program the switches and
routers *(if any)* and even better learn or develop more skills creating a
server where you can dial in and login via phone or internet and
troubleshoot the problems you might have.

All that will be fun and at the long run, many other important companies
will appreciate you better and pay more money.

I didn't just fall into it but it kind of happened that way. I work for
a manufacturing co. and was the engineering change corrdinator. I have
always had a thing for computers and progamming but started college as
an Electrical Engineering major. I dropped out, went into the military,
GREW UP and then started working with my present co (6yrs). I went back
to school and concentrated my efforts towards database design.

I am a sysadmin now only because when the IT opening came up, that is
what they were offering. (Get your foot in the door first, right) Now,
they are grooming me to move into a DBA position that is coming up.

It sounds like many of you (if not all of you) were very lucky, you were in the right place at the right time.I myself, not so lucky. I took courses in TCP/IP, HTML, web site design, etc at a local community college, didnt finish due to lack of money. I have my own little network at home that includes my tera station (can never have enough space). I started running my own little part time business helping people with computer problems and helping them set up wireless networks. However I can't seem to land a job that utilizes my skills.
What can i do to get a job like yours?

I would also suggest that you look at doing helpdesk type stuff as a way into being a sysadmin. I know the company where I work, we have a NOC and helpdesk and the natural progression for those who choose is system administration.

When I go into IT there were no courses or degrees in IT so the fact that I
owned a Commodore 64 and had end user experience helped me get my first job.
That's why it may seem some of us got "lucky." The situation today is very
different. You have some education and it sounds like you are getting some
experience. Unfortunately, employers expectations are very high for
newcomers and they are afraid to take a chance on someone who hasn't been
tested on the job.
I suggest you look into contracting companies that will help you get short
term contracts that will build up your resume while you continue to get as
much education as you can afford. Don't forget that some certifications you
can pass just learning on your own time and taking the test is much less
expensive than a degree. It takes time, but you can do it.
Dave

Thanks for the help.
BTW, I remember the Commodore 64. I was a little boy when it came out back in the early 1980's, along with the Atari 800 and Apple IIe. Unfortunately, I didn't own any of them. My dad felt he didn't want to spend money on something that would be obsolete in a few years. However, I did buy a used Commodore 64 in the early 1990's.

As snyce [https://freemailng6402.web.de/jump.htm?goto=http%3 A%2F%2Fwww%2Eittoolbox%2Ecom%2Fda%2F607382%2Fprofil e%2F1064447] says you need to do a bit of IT technical input to your knowledge. What you have described a your ICT is beyond expectation. There is alot you should know. If you want to become a Sysadmin, have basics in computing and general IT knowledge, then move on to have Helpdesk experience. You need to write a number of exams to achieve your objectives. This brings you confidence from your customers. Course like MSCE, MCSA, CCNA, Project Management, ITIL will bring you to this level if you dont have time do them practical. Remember to be diverse OPs, NWs, Applications and other peripheries, IT standards and ISO norms are vital for your feature position. But remember to specialize ICT is diverse and they are some many products on the market. Webdesign and TCP/IP are basics requirements to understand how Internet, NWs ect operate. Good real staff like Planing a NWI

and understanding customers requirements. You can use existing tools and portfolios. There is just a lot staff.
Isaac

I am training to become one. joining such a wide network group full of technical informations can help me greatly in my strive to achieve my goal. by virture of the registration process , i deemed it fit to choose to a SysAdmin as that what I am now fighting to achieve and not to involve in areas of no interest.

Thanks and request your assistance in providing me essentials material that would be of great help in enabling me to become a successful SysAdmin.

I know your frustration, I was also one of the "lucky ones". However once I decided to that I wanted to pursue a career in computers and especially networking I started at the bottom. I went to work for a small local computer company and got to drink from the firehose. I learned so much so quickly it was crazy. Every day I got to face new challenges. I learned soooo much. I started working in house PC/printer repair and then began doing the same on site and finally began to learn networking. I started by pulling cable, and worked my way up from there. I feel I was very lucky, but I knew that I wanted to be in the computer industry and started at the bottom and worked from there. I hope this helps, good luck.

I'm in the process of looking for a job as a sys admin now. I can tell
you some of the most common job requirements (in no particular order).
1. Scripting in ksh, bash, perl or Java.
2. SAN experience, at least enough to work with a SAN group.
3. At least 3-5 years administration experience.
4. Application and/or server management software.
5. WebSphere or other web management software.
6. Middleware, SQL, and database experience. Usually Oracle, but MySQL
and PostgreSQL are popping up.
Surprisingly, at least to me, was the dearth of security jobs. I'm
guessing that the popularity of that topic caused a glut of
applicants.
Good luck!
Dave

Hello,
I know your frustration too, I was not so lucky. Since
I could not afford the classes, I attended EVERY free
conference, seminar, & workshop I could find. I have
about 7-10 publications I have subscribed to. I
purchased used books on the materials I needed to
learn, then I purchased my own servers from eBay or
Craiglist. I now have a network (7 servers, 3 laptops,
1 workstation) where I can learn from my books,
subscriptions, workshops & job outline I see in Dice.
This is the road I have taken.
Hope this is some help to you. Let me know...

I just want to add that going to workshops, courses or buying books and reading ebooks cannot help you so much .... even if you have a couple of servers and a network at home available ....

If you need experience and working knowledge, you just have to find a job as junior system administrator or working as a support engineer for the maintenance of servers and so on.

when you face with work issues you will be experienced day by day and you can update your knowledge at the same time. At real work you will be under pressure and it pushes you to learn more and more. In short I wanted to say that to me, on-job-training is the most efficient way for you to build your future as a successful system administrator.

Hello,
It is VERY TRUE that a network at home does not
replace experience. By no means was I trying to
replace experience with a "home-alone" network, but if
you have a network, you can learn the skills to APPLY
to larger projects. You can concentrate on the skills
neccessary to get the job(s)/projects you are after.
Also, "workshops, courses or buying books and reading
ebooks cannot help you so much ...." is not something
I totally agree with. True, they do not replace
experience, but they give you a direct link to the
individuals working to improve their product or
service. Many vendors are happy to help you, when you
reach back to them for HELP or SELLING their product
or service. Today, most vendors have referal programs.
Again, this does not replace experience, but having a
DIRECT contact gives you the edge over those who do
not. It is true, "on-job-training is the most
efficient way for you to build your future as a
successful system administrator", but on-job-training
is empty without a proper foundation,
education/training & a "good" relationship with the
product or service.
Let me know...

I agree that nothing can replace on the job experience, but how does
someone go about getting a job as a junior system admin without job
experience? It's the famous IT catch-22.
ANY training or education you can add to your resume will be helpful
in getting that first job. Having a network at home will help as well.
As Bahram points out, it may be a question of how much it will help,
but it will help. Everything depends on the hiring manager and the
situation their situation. They may be looking for someone to bring in
at a lower pay rate and then train them for the job.
I've had a lot of luck working with contracting/recruiting firms. (I
don't mean trust them, but they can help you get a job.) They can help
you find short contracts that will help you gain the experience you
need. Even Windbloze admin experience will help you get a job.
Good luck,
Dave

Hello,
I agree, but there is a way.
Let's start with, what category of a system admin do
you want to deliver...
I designed, built, configured, updated & then
supported my 1st system admin project. I built this
network for a restaurant "free" of charge. Using the
"need" information from the owners & their patrons, I
contacted the vendors of various conferences, books,
emails & workshops. The owners bought the equipment, I
configured & installed the equipment. The relationship
I developed with the
owner(s) & their patrons of this restaurant led to
other projects, with other companies, restaurants &
individuals. I still send my resume out to recruiters,
but I have gotten more work on my own...
If you have the skill set, market & sell yourself to
those you know can benefit from your skills. Give them
a price you both can live with, & keep pushing...
I'd like to suggest you read & exercise the following:
1. "Guerrilla Marketing": www.gmarketing.com2. "Never Eat Alone": www.keithferrazzi.com3. "The Most Exclusive Club": www.basicbooks.com4. "Trump-Entrepreneurship 101":
www.wiley.com/businessLike I stated from the start, I wasn't so lucky, & I
do AGREE, nothing replaces experience. There's more
than 1 way to "skin" a cat... I hope this helps
Let me know...

Excellent points. Let me add something about selling yourself.
I got my first Sys Admin job with VERY little UNIX experience. What I
did, was sell my other skills. Project management, customer support
experience, and my ability to learn quickly. I was hired as a
contractor and proved myself well enough that I was eventually hired
full-time.
Dave

Uhh, that sounded like bragging. Sorry.
My point was this. Don't forget to sell your other skills as well.
Soft skills, especially project management and business knowledge, are
growing in importance for all IT careers.
Dave

hmm, i can see where many clueless sysadmins come from, (appologies for my
disdain)
very often these lists are subject to questions which any *real* sysadmin
should know. It's apparent that underskilled UNIX admins are doing admin
without sufficient pre-requisite knowledge, and rely on experienced admins
to carry them, with questions ranging from "how to run a script" to "how
can i add a second root user", questions which make you wonder what these
people really do for day jobs.
It pains me to see untrained sysadmins admins do things badly and without
the support of the software vendor.
This especially grates me when my work goes abroad to cheaper,
less-skilled people, who do nothing but phone me all day to plug the
skills gap. And no, just coz you know Solaris doesn't make you an AIX
admin.
Therefore I can only recommend that if you want to be a sysadmin, formal
training is the best and in some cases, the only way to get ahead.
Regards,

Hello,
Dave, I agree.
Selling other skills (soft) is becoming a "must" is
most situations. Being able to give or show a client a
potential ROI is a plus+. Selling ALL of your skills
puts you in a different league, that will put on
different projects...

Hello
its good you have talent that can give you any position best of luck enjoy more in life with best services sysadm is just beginner but high management is a all it moto so do some thing creative in IT so you staff and management make you Sir or respected words.

Thanks to everyone for their help.
I see that there is a lot that is over my head. i guess it would be best if i give up and i don't pursue being a system admin.
i don't have any money for classes and i can't find any non-profit orgs who want to hire a jr system admin and allow me to learn on the job. i'm just not a lucky person.

Dennis,
Don't give up, dig in! Dig up an old(er) pc, set it up as server at home
or work, or where ever. Configure it as a server. Add users, setup a
firewall, set it up as a web server, play around with different
configurations, learn, learn, learn, learn. Look for opportunities at
work or school to incorporate your newly honed skills.

Dennis:
Don't give up!!! Never give up! If this is a dream of yours, do what Ronald suggests... dig in!! Set up an older PC as a server... there are plenty of distro's of linux or even Solaris available for download free of charge. Try one for a month or three and then blow it away and set up a different one.

The only way to "really" learn the job is by doing!! Fail, rebuild, fail, rebuild... just don't give up!!
-Greg

Hello,
Dennis:
Everyone has posted a "a belief" in you. Without
saying ANYTHING direct, everyone has posted a
confidence & faith level in you. Everyone has given
you GOOD advice & suggestions. Most of all, ALOT of
people have been in your "shoes", including myself...
Exercise what has been put before you. Believe in
yourself. Promote what you have learned to those YOU
KNOW NEED your knowledge. Start a BLOG. Market
yourself to EVERYONE...

Hello Dennis,
I felt the same way as you did. I was ready to give up.
However, after sending out resumes, I eventually got a job in a
big company doing tech support, basically answering telephone calls.
It's not my perfect job, but it was my "step-in-the-door".
I kept my managers happy, with my performance.
I then took some certification courses, unix, oracle, Java, now doing some
CCNA.
My managers are now trying to get me up the ladder into a more technical
role
doing sys admin, unix, oracle.
so, don't give up. its easy to give up. but the sweat and heartache will
reward
you in the end, and only the hard workers get rewarded.
do some volunteer work anywhere, and keep plugging away!
tech support in a call center environment is a good way to get you in
the door.
hope this helps,
nurali.

well at the Company i work for,is a "industrial PLC automation Company"

the owner isn't at all computer savvy what so ever:

it's kinda funny
cause we do nothing but HMI Control On computer systems, so we have 17
PC to a iiS server
for company intranet, in office, and 9 laptops, 17 Employee's , i am A+
Certified and deciding if a MCSE is really worth it,
raise time came around and everyone got $2 i got $1 so my total hourly
is now $13.00/Hr, for all the code i write, and PC i maintain /
IT-support i provide on our software this is half all over the state for
our customers, and the guy thats sits across from me that Surfs porn and
talks on messenger all day got 1.00 more than me,,

Dennis,
My question to you would be, why do you want to be a systems
administrator? It is by no means a *glamorous* job, and one few would
actually choose (aside from those here obviously, but that is implied).
Something to think about (and sorry if I missed this before).

I was a HP3000 system admin and crossed over to AIX.
I joined IEEE - they have free online Unix training.

It is a good org
and for couple hundred bucks you get their library and "distance
learning".
It would be worth looking into.
By the way... Sys admin work is a never quit learning world. As long as
your floating and willing to learn you will make it.

Don't let others
drag you down, becuase you don't have the experience they expect you to
have.
Lendy
>
>
>
> Remember Don't worry about the guy surfing porn. He will be out of a job
> soon enough. With no skills to match. Just keep working hard and look as
> you go.
>
>

Sysadminihope2b, its not a easy task and I'm talking from experience. I am also trying to work my way to that level and beyond, but I am having problems getting a full time position anywhere (I mostly get contracts doing DTS), I want to take my 70-290 exam, but I don't have the cash for it and there alot of other techie stuff that I would love to get into but lack the resource too. At one point I consider myself unlucky, but you have to go beyond that, you have to keep studying until you get the chance exam and study other aspect of the IT Admin role (check job posting for things their looking for then google it and learn about it). Take a DTS job so you could fund your studies and exams, plus put exp. on your resume. Download a pdf of __________ <-----whatever your interested in learning. Use a VirtualPC on you PC to do hand on training (I know Mircosoft has virtual labs that you could use for all of there products). All I'm saying it Sysadmin isn't a easy job, but so is the path of becoming a sysadmin.....At the end of the day our job is to figure out how to get things done right.....so that means you have a few tasks to do on you task to do list so get it done! let me know it u need any help(studies stuff, advice, etc...) as always I will do what I can

Finally someone "Thetechdude07
" has described the
real world... I've been doing System Administration / System Management
for "many" years. Not everyone, regardless of education is cut out for
the work. If you thrive on praise, you are barking up the wrong tree.
If you lack self-confidence or can't say "no problem" to any situation
you may be confronted with, forget it.

Why have I done it for all these years? I thrive on the experience...
And frankly, it's a rush for me!

If you don't like to work long hours without advance notice, this job is
not for you. Every event (hardware failure, upgrade that has gone bad,
...) is an RGE (Resume Generating Event).

I am highly compensated for doing this work. However, I am proficient
in multiple operating systems (AIX, OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and Linux
including clustering for all). In addition, I configure all disk
storage including SAN and associated interfaces (i.e. Brocade Switches).
Currently, I maintain 60-70 systems operating under the environments
described above with ~ 50TB of storage.

In conclusion; if you want to live a normal life (8-5), off on weekends
& holidays - This is "not" the job for you!

Well Mr.all I can advice you to do is,being a system Admin.,is not easy as you have said,but also easy if you have your cash,so,all I'll advice you to do is that just try to get yourself firm to internet and try to be joining forums abou computer security,then you'll be able to asking questions on things find difficult and will be able to get solutions to problems you find difficult and aswell get websites that will enligthen you more abt Computer security.Well,I'll implore you to do that before you get money for any professional exam.

Well, what you say is very easy if you have years of experience in the field. Imagine yourself with very little experience whatsoever and no money to go for training. You certainly wouldn't be sitting where you are now.
The reason why is simple, it is ALWAYS about education or certification, and that fact alone is COMPLETELY ridiculous. I could easily do your job, but if i don't have all the education or experience the employer is looking for, they won't even give me a call.
I don't give a damn about being praised and it has nothing to do with lack of self confidence.The most discouraging factor has to do with ridiculous job requirements. I guess somehow you were able to circumvent getting certification or a degree in computer science.
eveyone I have spoken with all said the same thing, that they just "fell" into the position.
Well, if everyone in the past just "fell" into the profession then I should be allowed to do the same as well, shouldn't I?

I can relate to you. I started working in the IT industry mostly doing
help desk while I was doing my IT degree, and one day I found myself
with no degree and out of the industry and it was hard to get back to
it. Thanks to God I'm back on track, finished school and work as System
Admin for a Windows shop. Like Ken said, you can learn most of what you
need for web development on your own and create a portfolio pretty
quick, but if you are going to spend 3-5 years doing that, make sure you
work towards becoming the sys admin you want to be at the same time.
Get CBTs (Computer Based Training) you can get some cheap one on ebay
and will help you a lot, practice, practice and practice, download
vmware server for free or Virtual pc and practice administering windows
server, active directory, dns, dhcp,etc. One thing you want to do it's
to start getting experience ASAP. Get a job as web developer or
volunteer to do some jobs so you can start building your portfolio, but
if your main goal is to become a sysadmin, get a help desk or some other
IT job. You want to get into the industry and move up, and you might
want to start studying for the A+ Network+. You can get the CBTs from
ebay or Newsgroups :-) (did I say that?).

ITtoolbox sysadmin-careerBesides being a geek I am also an ordained minister. I won't preach to you but you need some assistance. I am not talking about going to a counselor or doctor, but in your mind (I suffer from depression, too) your thoughts can be turned outward to something. What I call prayer, you can call taking to yourself. Ask for something and while you think you are talking to yourself, some spiritual guide will hear you and mull over your "prayer." Find peace and listen to the answers.
How are your references? The reason I ask is that if you have some heavyweight people who know how well you can do what you do, that could help as much as a degree. Large companies have HR's with classified postions who can put themselves in legal jeopardy if a position requires a degree. Being a Webmaster is an extremely large deal if you are good at it. Try advertising you skills on Craig's List (craigslist.com) for your area. Anyway, with the references, you could hook up with a startup or small company with no HR, yet. BTW, HR is Human Resources but I don't want to insult your intelligence.
With the peace that comes from conversing with something that responds to your needs and realistically looking over your skills, you will succeed. I will ask my God to bless you. GEEKS RULE!!!!!

Having been a sys-admin for 10+ years I can tell you that while I have really enjoyed it, it is a thankless job. If you suffer from depression I really think you need to carefully evaluate whether a sys-admin job is right for you from a health perspective. Depending on your situation there can be very little human interaction (which has its advantages and disadvantages ;) ) and other situations where all you do is field complaints when something isn't working and endure silence when everything is working as it should be. It is a very rare person who thanks a sys-admin for a trouble-free infrastructure (and I'm not saying that to garner sympathy, I don't mind one way or another because I'm used to it, but it doesn't happen).
If you do decide to go down this road, I agree with others who have said both prove yourself on the web dev side and let everyone know you are heading in this direction.
I don't have a degree, although I now have some professional certifications, and my jobs have all come because I put the word out that I was looking. Not all came from people saying "Hey, I'll hire you" but because they've said, "My friend's friend's brother-in-law's cousin knows someone who might be looking". It is amazing what connections your circle of friends have. And if you believe in the power of positive thinking, karma, being led by a higher power, or whatever you want to call it you'll soon discover that things start going the direction you want because you've started yourself heading in that direction.
All that being said, make sure you are really sure that a sys-admin job is the best for you personally.
Kenton
----- Original Message ----

It seems even though I have decided, more or less, to move in the direction of web related technologies, I have to admit I have my doubts about going into that direction.
I have always been kind of crippled with, what I call, a chronic self doubt and having this perpetual self doubt has caused me to go nowhere fast!
It started today after I went to the bookstore and looked into Flash ActionScript. I have no idea how to implement ActionScript or what can really be done with ActionScripts. When someone builds an entire web site from Flash is it from actionScripts? See, I don't even know.
I only know the barebone basics of Flash. I see web sites on the web that are completely made from Flash and have no idea how it was done. Worse, I have a feeling I could never make a complete web site out of Flash. I have the distinct feeling I am going to be struggling and poor for the rest of my life.
Maybe I should go back to my original idea of getting into system administration. However, I do not like the idea of doing help desk work. I can't imagine answering phones all day, and NOTHING but phones all day. That would drive me crazy! (if I'm not already crazy).
When I pictured working in that field, I was picturing myself actually being a systems administrator and not having to work my way up to being a systems administrator. I was thinking that with a few well placed lies on my resume I could effectively skip over the help desk work. My feeling is that lies never hurt, as long as you get away with them.

ITtoolbox sysadmin-careerMichael - Do you have any sites that you have done that we can look at? Many people still use HTML and Java and make some really attractive sites. Macromedia makes "cool" sites but I have seen some where the Flash detracts from the site. If you do not have any sites right now, let me know and I'll give you one to experiment with. I have a couple that I made where the business I made them for changed their minds. You have a wide range of people watching and listening to you and are probably worried about you. Let's utilize the expertise at your fingertips to allow you to build a site and get input from everybody. Let others evaluate your skills and remove the "chronic self doubt." Let's go forth and prosper. Rev. Tom

I have heard of dice.com but my skills don't compare to all the web professionals out there.
Most of the jobs require knowledge beyond what i know, such as PHP, Java, AJAX, the list goes on.
i guess the problem is that employers don't see any potential in me and i to be honest, i don't think i see any either.

ITtoolbox sysadmin-careerMan, you're a stud. When I went to college in the mid-sixties, you're what we called a Face God.
Anyway, you're trying to sell yourself to the wrong people. The person who needs you is the small businesses in Houston. The kind of people you can attract or find through Craig's List for Houston. Your site are good and I would suggest only that you do learn PHP which you can do by buying PHP For Dummies on Ebay. I'm learning it because I need it for a site I'm developing so I can't help you. You're one up on me because you know about servers. I buy hosting from others because I guess I'm lazy.
Go to craigslist.com for Houston. Post your own info as well as look at what people need. I live in a small town in SE Arizona so craigslist doesn't help me a whole lot. Go forth and prosper. As usual, I will pray to my God for your success.

Hi Michael,
You should not loose heart. After reading the last message, I also took time
to look at your website.
You need to enhance your skills and volunteer, if you do not get paid work,
in the activities you want to do.
If you feel you have no idea of AJAX, Jawa, or whatever, search and enhance
your knowledge on the net. Wikipidia is a good start, to be followed with
appropriate books and online forums. You'd be surprised that most of the
candidates who get the positions you want; also have limited experience on
many of the things. It would be wrong to think that the experts in these
fields are easily available, with all the skillsets companies are usually
looking for in applicants. You just need to be better than others and keep
trying. Try to put yourself in the other person's shoes and think what he
wants.
As an example, I was looking for someone to help me with advanced excel
programming in VB6, most MVP's at Microsoft's website, suitable for my
work were unavailable! I had to just learn the relevant piece and do it
myself.
Look for mentors, who help you evaluate your skills and improve them.
Sunil

If you want to continue the web design path, you will probably have to
learn more about scripting languages like PHP, ASP, etc. maybe ajax, to
make your pages more dynamic. I know you don't want to work as Help
Desk, but my humble advice is try to get a technical IT position,
whatever it is, so at least you can get your foot in the door and then
move up to a sys admin position. Without experience or education
(including industry certifications) getting a sys admin position is not
very easy.

Michael:
Don't lose hope!! Seriously... most good companies will hire first from within. Therefore, get your foot in the door, even if it's at the help desk. Yes, you say you have a crappy job now, so anything would be an improvement, correct? Go work at a help desk somewhere, and when a position opens up elsewhere in the company, interview for that. And here's the key: Be persistent. If you don't get hired for that position, or even if you haven't heard anything about the position that you just interviewed for, call them and express your interest in the position, and ask when a decision will be made. Even if you know already when the decision will be made. Personal contact ALWAYS scores higher than an email or a letter!! Keep trying!!

ITtoolbox sysadmin-careerMichael, I'm sorry but I am going to have to put on my minister's cap. With all the responses you have had and all you see is the one sentence about experience or education, then I can only think that you are looking for validation of your low self esteem. I have been on anti-depressants since I returned from the Gulf War in 1991. I had a couple of experiences where I thought I was okay and quit taking them. It didn't take long to get right back on them and I don't know what my life would be without them. Please stop whining and get to work. From your first email to today, you could have taught yourself PHP from PHP for Dummies which would have been a better way to spend your time than feeling sorry for yourself. With a local startup company, you probably won't need a degree.
Get your head together. Make system administrator a long-term goal; not short-term. You have a creative mind which is evident from your Web sites. Get to work and if you want to talk, email me at email@removed and I'll send you my 800 number.
I care. Rev. Tom

Yes, your idea will materialize, if you want it to. You can achieve what your mind can conceive. Stop being so negative and start working towards what you want in live. I came to this country almost 10 years ago. I could barely speak English, did not have my degree completed and wasn't working in the IT industry. I've worked in Mc Donald's, I've worked as Bell Man, and I've worked as houseman for a house keeping department at a Disney hotel while I was going to school at night. I graduated Magna Cum Laude one and ½ years after getting a position as Assistant System Admin for an insurance company.

I have my heavy Puertorrican accent and sometimes have to deal with discrimination, but I did not come to this country to live from the government, I have a dream, and goals and being negative or pessimistic in live won't help me accomplish them.

"I graduated Magna Cum Laude one and ? years after getting a position as Assistant System Admin for an insurance company".
I think that is great what you were able to accomplish. you were very fortunate. i'm very happy for you.
I too tried working for what i wanted and went to college for 7 years, but it never came true. then i tried to do web design and after 8 years, it too didn't come true. after awhile, i started to ask myself why should i try? i already know i will fail.
whenever i put forth effort and invest my time in something, i always, always, (and i can't stress this enough) always fall flat on my face.
i have become scared to invest my time and energies into something because i always get nowhere. i do my best, but the problem is that my best is never good enough. perhaps some people in this world are pre-destined for success while some are pre-destined for failure. perhaps this pre-destiny is already decided and nothing i do can change the outcome.
there isn't much i can do to change the kind of luck i get.

We can go back and forward with the same topic and you might get
responds from 20,000 people that have gone through worse times than
yours, but as long as you keep thinking the way you are thinking,
NOTHING will change. You just keep putting negative ideas that are
materializing and NOBODY will be able to help you, but YOU.

Do you
have anything to be thankful about? You need to tackle one thing at a
time. You are administrative assistant or something like that and want
to go to sleep and week up being a sysadmin. It does NOT work like
that. You will get there; I know that, you just have to tackle one
thing at a time. If you get the A+ cert and become a PC Tech, it's
better than what you are doing right now and you will be one step closer
to get an IT position.

It would appear from all your emails, that the root of the problem lies
within you. Your inner beliefs create your outer world. You can have the
best house plans in the world, but if you build a house on a swamp, its
gonna sink. Your attitude and beliefs are currently in the swamp.
Counselling and possibly some drug therapy may help you get on your
feet. Until you do, nothing in life can proceed, because it is all being
based upon a belief of failure. If you start with the state of mind of
failure, everything you create will follow that mindset. Nothing outside
of you can change that, the change has to come from within first. Career
and everything else in life only follows what you believe about
yourself. This isn't about a sys admin job, it boils down to life
lessons. Until you first decide to get some help, your wheels will keep
spinning.

If I were you I would put all of my efforts there first, get your
mindset and belief systems on solid ground, then try and tackle other
challenges. Not everything comes easy in life, but if your attitude and
beliefs are on solid ground, they will keep their footing when the path
gets rocky.

Michael,
When you apply for a help desk job, see if the company will pay for
education.

That will help with the education part.

Let your employer
know your goal.
Lendy
>
>
>
> ITtoolbox sysadmin-careerMichael, I'm sorry but I am going to have to put
> on my minister's cap. With all the responses you have had and all you see
> is the one sentence about experience or education, then I can only think
> that you are looking for validation of your low self esteem. I have been
> on anti-depressants since I returned from the Gulf War in 1991. I had a
> couple of experiences where I thought I was okay and quit taking them. It
> didn't take long to get right back on them and I don't know what my life
> would be without them. Please stop whining and get to work. From your
> first email to today, you could have taught yourself PHP from PHP for
> Dummies which would have been a better way to spend your time than feeling
> sorry for yourself. With a local startup company, you probably won't need
> a degree.
> Get your head together. Make system administrator a long-term goal; not
> short-term. You have a creative mind which is evident from your Web
> sites. Get to work and if you want to talk, email me at email@removed
> and I'll send you my 800 number.
> I care. Rev. Tom
>

When I decided to go into systems administration, I had a bachelor's degree in comparative literature and a little bit of experience working on a help desk supporting legal secretaries who couldn't wade their way through microsoft word.
Given that my educational background didn't present a clearly paved road to a named career, I had to ask myself what I wanted to do with myself. Not having a clear road meant that all directions were wide open. The direction I took would have to meet the following criteria:
* It had to be fun
* It had to pay well
* It had to be in a field where I would always be able to find a job
I loved everything about working with computers. I'd done a little dabbling with a shell account and was having a blast learning about UNIX and shell scripting. That was it. I decided to become a UNIX systems administrator.
The first job I got working with UNIX didn't pay great, and it was doing technical support for a little startup in Seattle. I had no experience except for the time I'd spent teaching myself. I didn't even know my way round vi. I BSed my way in the door.
Well, I and everyone around me knew very soon that I was in WAY over my head. But they didn't fire me, and I didn't give up. I learned fast, and I learned well. Walking through fire only served to make me love the field even more.
That was around ten years ago. I still love it, my pay has tripled since that first job, and I still feel like there's so much to learn I'll never keep up.
I'm a fifty-year-old woman. That means I started this whole thing when I was forty. I had no technical education. I also needed that paycheck. There was no one out there supporting me financially while I "found myself."
You can do this. You need to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Apply for jobs, volunteer to help out on some open source projects, do whatever it takes to keep moving forward.
I think it was JFK who said that doors will always open for a man (or woman) who knows where he's going.

Check with New Horizon Learning Centers. They have some great programs
to get your certifications. They have financial aids and if your credit
is not bad you can get a student loan and repay when you finish school.
After getting one or two certifications, they will find a job for you so
you can start getting experience ASAP. Check their California
locations:

I really appreciate someone that can reinvent themselves! I know how scary it can be. I started in Electronics and did not touch a "real" computer untill I was in my mid thirties. You will love this. I crashed my kids' computer, and was in the dog house,until I fixed it after hours on hold and an hour to reinstall the OS. After that I was hooked. I started out at HP support graveyard shift, level 1. Then I was promoted to level 2 support with in 6 mos. Have kept working my way up until now have multiple administration skills . I have found my niche as you seem to have. Good Luck and God bless!

First requirement of the job. No whining! I have never seen self pity get anyone anywhere except the bottom.
My first computer job, I worked the grave yard shift, for HP, for an out source contract company.
Big part of the interview, they gave me a written technical test left me in a room , with reference and technical books, and internet access. I was told I could use any resource. 45 minutes later I got 85% on the test. I was told it was not what I knew, it was what I could find out ,and my utilization of resources. NO ONE IS AN EXPERT ON EVERYTHING. I got the job and still learn something new everyday. ATTITUDE IS IMPORTANT! PEOPLE SKILLS are as important as technical know how! If you want this as badly as you say,QUIT should not be in your dictionary!

I sorta just fell into the job back in 1993. I had prior computer experience but no network background. I was a college student working towards my CS degree and had been running a BBS, WOW where those the days 2400bps! The company I was with wanted to network a few computer and I was put in charge to find out how. So I got a copy of LANtastic and some thinnet and made it work. A few years down the road we install Netware 3.11 and a few years after that rewired the build with CAT5. The rest is history. I took some training classes in netware and have my MCNE, CDE, CNS, and ITProject+ certs. I'm currently installing/support our's and our customers RF design, installation, and maintenance. All of this has been hands on OJT w/ and little online coursework from Symbol, ie Motorola now. So between the inet, friends, some training that's how I became a Sysadmin, Network Engineer.

I started my network technician at the age of 34. I am not a native English speaker. I had no computer background Before I came to an English country.
I had no much money left for waiting for a good job. I had to go to orchard to pick fruits for living.When I got some money, I went to uni and got computer science degree. But after graduated, I still had no enough money to wait for a computer job, I had to go back to the orchard again. When I got some money again, I moved to a bigger city,luckily I found a computer project contract to work with, then after half year, I got my first network technician job.
In a word, "attitude" decides your future.And you can guess how hard it is for a non-English speaker to get a proper job in an English-speaker country.
I also have to improve my English speaking in my spare time.
Some facts you cannot change, but you can change your attitude towards it.
PS:I learned linux and BSD a lot from my home-network too before I got a network technician job.

i have been there before with coping to make a living in tough times.
bottom line don't give up on your goals.
don't ever bring yourself to think about ending your life.
you will find a way to overcome your obstacles it's just a matter of time.

I used to be an IT Manager in Silicon Valley. Worked for several dot
coms, but I got into the bust, not the boom. Spent 18 months in that
area, unemployed and doing small contracts, etc. finally I had to leave
the area, as my resources were running out faster than things were
picking up.

Now I'm in Oklahoma City, working 3rd tier tech support for Dell's
Enterprise Server Products. I mostly provide software support for all
operating systems and applications. Google has become my bestest of
friends. To be honest, I used to really despise this job. I went on a
few interviews where I was told they were hiring a person who could
design and implement a solution, not a phone based tech support person.
Obviously they did not realize what I do, here. I have just a few
minutes to learn everything I can about the environment, weed out
everything unrelated, get as many details as I can about the system,
error messages, etc and then fix the problem, as quickly as possible.

Not the best of jobs to promote a career as an IT Manger/SysAdmin, but I
get to see SO MANY different solutions and implementations that a few
years here, can be like a decade somewhere else.

All I'm really trying to say here, is that you should look for a job
that let's you meet your requirements (food, rent, lights, etc), then
find a way to 'massage' that experience into something useful for your
career growth. Dell, for example, has excellent educational perks and
support. Even working in a call center, taking orders, etc, helps you
build those soft communications skills that can help you 'sell' yourself
to others. If you get promoted, and are in a leadership or training
position, that also helps as you show experience with additional
responsibility.

I'll be the first to admit it sucks not doing what I used to do. It suck
not doing the type of work I want to do and am very good at. But for
now, I'm keeping my lights on, my options open. I'm getting
certifications that I want, and they are not just paper, because I'm
putting them to use with calls I get.

Find your own silver lining. That is how I got off the anti-depressants
and started finding a better way to look for the type of job I love
doing.

Good luck and feel free to ping me, personally, if you need additional
help.

Daniel

P.S. I know there are a few slots open for server techs, here. If you
are able/interested in relocating to OKC, OK, I will be glad to help get
you into the system as a candidate. (Dell does not offer relocation
assistance for this position.)

Hello,
Please discard the idea of ending your life.
I am making a promise that within 90 days you will get a job that will put smile on your face. Always give thanks to God, there are some guys more qualified but yet envying you, job will come your way. Keep on praying and looking for ways to help yourself, concentrate on solution not on the problem. I believe you are one of the luckiest guys on earth. The certificates you have some have been praying God for them.
I suggest you start with support job, it will help grow faster.
Keep well.
Omenuel.

hi Michael,
Life is so much precious and each of us is responsible for ourselves ... so pls dun think about ending your life.
i've been in your situation and i fully understand how u feel. i had been always wanted to be in tech support field.. Nevertheless my earlier career years were fulled of twist and turn, with my last 1st tier support job ended up in VSS due to local branch of the HQ closed down. Competition was tough as in my region, it's usually the much experienced, PLUS, the guys would get the tech support positions, i mean, those posts deal with real machines, real network, not just sitting at own desk providing phone support.
Then i went into a telco firm, with a vision that i wanted to learn something which could combine voice with IT. i only managed to get the operation assistant cum customer service post. However, i did pick up lots of technical stuff on voice service, and at the same time, i tried to offer myself to assist in any IT-related issue in the company.... and i picked up more stuff than i could imagine. Even though at then, i still not the core tech support staff there. Then after 4 years plus, i happened to be able to join the engineering team which opened the door for me to learn more in-depth about all those back-end server operation and incident handling. So i was there for 1/2 year before moving into the real tech support post as i'm in now.
So now i count my blessing that after years of never giving up my faith and dreams, and after years of continously picking up the skills together with experiences, at least now i could feel relief that as a female staff, i'm able to fill up the word 'system engineer' in any occasions/ seminars/ exhibitions that i join.
And i'm still keeping on learning.
So Michael, keep the faith, and keep up with your efforts.

hi , Please dnt make this Decision Never at all .. Dont think to end ur life
.. This is just a Test given by god . u shud face that and to overcome so
that u will get more courage and confidence .soon u will get a job .. i am
sure about that .. dont go for silly things like at the bottom ..

hi Hoffman
i am not asystem administrator yet. i just started a masters degree in Info Tech education. and yet to identify the area to concentrate

on the issue of job my only suggestion to is you that, take it easy, for all is not lost yet.
do you know i was in the same situation for almost four years until i decided to go into teaching. it is not enough to rely on the federal support. but you are lucky because there is no such support in africa and ghana where i live.

dont take your life. for when you have live you have it all. meaning you are rich. in ghana live is worth more than treasure. maintain the part time job to cater for your cisco programme may be that will open an avenue for you tommorow.

A friend of my wife's sent this to her in an e-mail yesterday and I believe that it was meant to be passed on to you. Why, because our dog insisted on getting up at 6 AM, not her usual time, which prompted me to take a look at my e-mail rather than going back to sleep for another 1/2 hour.

'To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.' When God takes something from your grasp, He's not punishing you, but merely opening your hands to receive something better. Concentrate on this sentence.... 'The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.' Something good will happen to you today; something that you have been waiting to hear.

IT is my second career. In 1991, after years of working 180+ miles away from where I grew up, I accepted a position as a purchasing agent to learn a little bit about the computer with a small (48 users) PHVAC Wholesale company. At the time I was growing a sales position $35,000 base sales position and took a pay cut to roughly $25,000. This allowed me to re-establish my relationship with my father and be a closer part of the last 9 years of his life. Yes there was a method to my madness.

Since then my life (career in IT and other things - the best is yet to come) have progressed and grown. The key to my success from my prospective is that I have never been afraid of rolling up my sleeves and do the grunt work. I have been fortunate enough to work in both small and large LAN and WAN networked server environments. I have allowed myself to be drug out all hours of the night and have taken some of the worst abuse imaginable from client personnel, but also been treated the same as a full time employee by others.

In the 2003-2004 time frame I was in Tampa Florida and rode out the worst hurricane season on record. This prompted a move north and 4-1/2 years ago I moved to Kansas City with the end result of meeting my wife. Just after we really became serious my wife was diagnosed with cancer of the kidney. Despite the big C we still got engaged and are happily married. A fairy tale ending, no. She has accelerated arthritis from the chemo therapy and other issues. However my wife is still cancer free, the biggest prize of them all.

Work still remains a challenge, but we consider ourselves truly blessed as there are so many others who are far worse off than us. 6 months between contracts is the longest unemployed stretch that I have ever gone through. I have become a commuter husband. My current contract just started last week a 4 hour drive from home and the second week the company is undergoing a mandatory company wide furlough. I was aware of the furlough when given the contract and this is giving me some time to research issues with the migration projects that will be my responsibility.

A decision made in 1991 has changed my life completely. The path has not always been rosy, but each step lead me to meet and marry the lady who presently graces my life. My wife may have medical problems, however the joy's that her personality has brought into my life are unfathomable.

Michael, please don't give up on life. While we may not realize the reason for what is happening at the time, ending you life will deny not just yourself, but others unknown possibilities. Each of us are a part of a huge living entity called the human race we each have an unseen but life altering influence on others.