When the world starts paying our bills then they can have a say.
Otherwise they need a big cup of stfu.

Maybe when the US stops screwing over peoples' lives in other countries all over the world in order to maintain their imperialist structure through
hostile foreign economic policies, then maybe the world's voice might not have as much meaning as it does now.

Originally posted by haterproof
Interesting viewpoint considering the 'whole world' actually owns your debt.
So internet bravado aside, you better care what the 'whole world' thinks of you cause you work for them.

The "Whole World" doesn't own our debt, select countries do, which do not represent "the whole world"

You know what the whole world would love?
An end to these expensive wars which also would allow no more threatsm to your "Free" healthcare that you love so much by footing the bill to
others.

Absolutely the world thinks that. It is true. And it is why the world is marginalizing us. The GOP is an invading force engaged in a coup in
America. It's probably too late to save the Nation, but the rest of the world will make sure we only threaten ourselves.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were both authorized by Congress, and funded by congress, which at the time the Democrats were in complete control of
both the Senate and the House.

Yes, funded, but how were they paid for?

Re Congress 107th with Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq, House Republican, Senate split
108th Congress both houses Republican,
109th Congress both houses Republican
Dems did not have both houses until 1-3-07, 110th Congress

In 2002, IMO the 39% of the House Dems and 52% of the Sen Dems who feared to vote against resolution, did so in the face of trumped up "evidence"
otherwise it would make them appear weak on defense, and not get voted in again in the Fall elections, lost anyway

Less than 3% of House Republicans and only 2% of Sen GOP voted agains
61% House Dems and 42% Sen Dems voted against

On Thursday, October 10, 2002, the U.S. House of Representatives voted 296-133

81 Democrats voted in support

Senate vote -

on Friday, October 11, 2002, the U.S. Senate voted 77-23

29 Democrats voted in support

All attempts by Democrats to add strings to the authorization were defeated not by Republican majorities, but because Democrats joined with the
republicans to vote the measures down (Carl Levin D-MI and his amendment comes to the forefront).

As far as Afghanistan goes -
House Vote -

On September 14, 2001 bill House Joint Resolution 64 passed in the House. The totals in the House of Representatives were: 420 Ayes, 1 Nay and 10
Not Voting (the Nay was Barbara Lee - D-CA).

If you pay attention to the resolutions authorizing the use of force and seeing which members voted which way, the Democrats are just as responsible
as the Republicans are for authorizing the use of force.

After the Democrats took control, they could have ended any and all military action by refusing to fund it, which you will notice they did not.

Prior to the 2002 elections the Senate was under the control of Democrats when Jim Jeffers left the REpublican party, became an Independant and
caucased with the Democrats.

If you take into account the number of Republicans who voted no on the Iraq use of force authorization, Democratic votes were essential to passing
the measure.

If you look at the war on terror resolution (afghanistan) it was pretty much unanimous.

NIce try though on attempting to shift all blame to the Republicans. Typical partisan view point, which is whats wrong with the country today.

Seriously, what would happen if the US looked at all the other countries around the world and said "You know what? We aren't paying any of you back
anything anymore. And if you try to collect, we will pay you in incoming nuclear missles."

Since they all think we are crazy Americans anyway, why not draw that line in the sand?

-Republicans believe saving the economy means stopping funding for public broadcasting, but not cutting the military budget.

-Republicans believe marriage should only be granted to men and women and not for same sex couples.

-Republicans don't believe in regulations of the oil industry, therefore, incidents like the Gulf Oil Spill take place.

-Republicans believe in limited government involvement with personal lives but believe the government should outlaw women's rights and gay
marriage.

-Republicans don't believe in separation of church and state.

-Republicans don't believe in environmental protection of any kind and don't believe we as a species can harm a planet in any way imaginable.

-Republicans don't want to cooperate with the President with the debt crisis only because the weaker the economy is, the better chance Obama will not
be re-elected. Therefore, Republicans don't actually care about solutions, but only care about votes.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
This thread is insane
You want to allow a spoiled bankrupt child to get a credit line increase on his multiple defaulting credits cards when he pays his credit card bills
with other credit cards?

I get so tired of this complete FAIL at an analogy attempt.

A nation is not a person with a credit card. Yes, we need to stop spending on wars, subsidies, etc. But not raising the debt ceiling would be
CATASTROPHIC for the immediate economy. People like you would be BEGGING for government intervention if this happened, despite all your tough-guy
internet libertarians sentiments.

A country, like any major corporation, must engage in deficit spending. This constant attempt to compare a countries economy to a households check
book only illustrates a complete and total lack of understanding of national and international economics. If business didnt borrow to gain funds to
create more infrastructure, they would fail. A country is no idfferent.

Right now, are republicans the one who is causing so many civilian deaths in Libya?

How cutely partisan of you. Yes, actually, the GOP and DNC are equally responsible for our current engagement in Libya. The GOP were asking for
intervention in Libya months and months ago, including RAND PAUL and former GOP PResidential Candidate John McCain.

Clearly we're beyond crisis when the POTUS is having meetings about raising the limit in which we can continue accruing debt (that he bails on.)
Institute a monetary draft. The poor have lost LIFE in the past from military drafts, what harm could a monetary draft have? Anyone with over $10mil
will become public servants and (I'm being generous here) will forfeit all money over $10mil limit to the US Gov't who in turn will:
1) Pay off debt
2) Oil can and will be replaced--research
3) Education (interchangeable with 2. I know there is or will be a mind out there who will discover the solution.)
Like one poster had said: If you really think you need so much money, you are spiritually corrupt and are replaceable, or something along those lines.

Communism? Yes. Capitalism? Yes. Communism on its own has failed. Capitalism on its own has failed. Two of the most powerful nations the world has
ever seen have used these systems. Combine the best of both and the world may have a chance.

Then the other obvious solution:
Recall all troops and abandon all bases around the world. War cannot exist if we hope to survive in the future.
Like Eisenhower said,
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed,
those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its
scientists, the hopes of its children."

If we destroy the world's economy through inaction, causing the greatest depression seen in history, extremists will rise to power around the world on
a revolutionary wave of hate towards the US.

It wouldn't matter who was right or wrong from an ideological standpoint, e.g. Tea Party arguments, all that would matter is billions of pissed off
and hate filled people that blamed the US for the collapse.

This is a clear case of perception is reality. You wouldn't be able to argue with them over taxes or the founding fathers, etc. They wouldn't give two
craps about our grand history or philosophy and we could be totally right. Being right doesn't stop people with torches, rope, and pitchforks.

If we bring down the world economy this year, we need to be ready to fight and not just China or Russia, but the entire world. If we are not ready for
essentially a barbarian horde in the event of a collapse, we will not survive.

On the other hand if we have been waiting on this moment the whole time to create Absolute Spectrum Dominance, the Third Reich may end up looking like
Boy Scouts when its over with.

That's assuming anyone would even stand up for those morons...kinda tuff to defend against the world when even your own country don't want you
there! Not that is hasn't been a long time coming. I think the thing I'm ashamed of the most is its taking the rest of the world speaking out to
finally open some peoples eyes. In all honesty, if it does come down to needing outside assistance to rectify our problem then id be embarassed to
even call myself an american. What kind of people are we to see a country progress this far only to see it hijacked by politics? We better solve our
own probems, or start looking into a name change, because it would be a disgrace to continue down the path were on and still call ourselves "America,
land of the free"!

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