Earlier today, the Department of Commerce announced new sanctions against Russian products and companies operating in the United States. Previous sanctions only tangentially impacted the import of cheap and reliable firearms from Russia into the United States, but now the Obama administration is specifically targeting the makers of Saiga rifles and shotguns, as well as other companies. From the Executive Order. . .

So the importation of new Izmash-produced firearms is now banned indefinitely in the United States. But that executive order definitely raises some questions for those currently in possession of a firearm manufactured by the now-sanctioned firearms companies. For example, can a gun dealer sell their existing stock? From the FAQ regarding the legality of items already in the United States:

374. If I own a Kalashnikov product, is that product blocked by sanctions? Am I able to resell a Kalashnikov product at a gun show or other secondary market?

If a U.S. person is in possession of a Kalashnikov Concern product that was bought and fully paid for prior to the date of designation (i.e., no payment remains due to Kalashnikov Concern), then that product is not blocked and OFAC sanctions would not prohibit the U.S. person from keeping or selling the product in the secondary market, so long as Kalashnikov Concern has no interest in the transaction. New transactions by U.S. persons with Kalashnikov Concern are prohibited, however, and any property in which Kalashnikov Concern has an interest is blocked pursuant to OFAC’s designation of Kalashnikov Concern on July 16, 2014. If a U.S. person has an inventory of Kalashnikov Concern products in which Kalashnikov Concern has an interest (for example, the products are not fully paid for or are being sold on consignment), we advise that U.S. person to contact OFAC for further guidance on handling of the inventory. [7-16-2014]

375. If I have Kalashnikov products in my inventory, can I sell them?

If a U.S. person has an inventory of Kalashnikov Concern products in which Kalashnikov Concern has an interest (for example, the products are not fully paid for or are being sold on consignment), we advise that U.S. person to contact OFAC for further guidance on handling of the inventory. [7-16-2014]

We all saw this coming, but the reality is always more confusing and distasteful than the perception. There is no word at this time whether additional Russian firearms related manufacturers will get the same treatment.

(i.e., no payment remains due to Kalashnikov Concern) Here’s the main problem in their wording, if a gun store already purchased a shipment of arms in full, i.e. not consignment as stated above, then they can freely sell the remaining inventory. You can still get Kalashnikov Concern weapons(for a little while longer, and at a higher price) at most gun stores. My personal favorite store has quite a few left.

Obviously you don’t know what you are talking about, when it comes to Arsenal weapons. Mine certainly is Russian, and the barrel/receiver are produced in the Izhmash factory. If you fail to believe me i can take a photo of the box my SGL-21 came in.

That wouldn’t happen because the reason they are so cheap is because they are made on machines that have been paid for and by cheap labor. None of that exists here. It would be at least a $700+ dollar gun, maybe even more once they see what people are wiling to pay. Lets face it though, thats not gonna happen. Certainly not before Obama leaves office, probably never because even in Russia that company has had financial trouble.

Are you stuck in 2002? Because that was the last time an AK variant cost $300 (Romanian SAR-1, SAR-2, and 3). Now those rifles are around the $700-800 range if you can find them. As for American Made AK variants, we have those already and not only are they expensive (around $650-750 range), but they are also JUNK. Would not trust my life on them. I would rather spend my money on a $550 Romanian WASR-10. That’s saying a lot, because WASR’s would be my last choice If I had to get another AK. Would rather get the Zastava ones. Though the WASR’s that were manufactured during the last 2-3 years are light years ahead of the american made AK’s.

You do know you only have to comply with 922r if you plan on selling more then 1 and making a business out of it, right? No one has ever been convicted of not complying with it. Its largely accepted that it does not apply to end users at all.

Also if you’d like to use any regular capacity magazine. Parts counts matter. Also, it doesn’t matter if no one has ever been prosecuted for it – it’s still the law if you want to use regular magazines instead of the silly Saiga (or similar) ones with bullet guides built into them.

Domestically manufactured M1 Garands are not banned, but the import of surplus original M1 Garands and M1 Carbines from South Korea is banned. Even though no one has been shot using either weapon in decades.

Those surplus rifles you speak of WERE domestically manufactured, but they lifted the ban on the importation of them. We let S. Korea use some of our leftovers and they banned the RE-importation of them, but enough people got pissed and so they (as far as I know) lifted the ban. But this is ridiculous!!

They will ban ALL Serbian made AKs, Bulgarian AKs and probably Romanian AKs.
They were very upset that they weren’t able to ram down another AWB so they just ban the import of scary ‘assault’ weapons including the cheap Zastava AK pistols.
I guess it’s time for me to buy that VEPR I have been wanting.

Aside from Serbia and Russia, all the former Warsaw Pact countries we import AKs from are NATO allies- so there won’t be a ban on importation. This isn’t about an AWB, it’s about blocking the import of products from Russia. This is about political chess with Russia over Ukraine and trying to hit them economically. Aside from vodka and energy, I’d say their arms industry is the most obvious export Russia has, so this makes sense, even if it riles American consumers.

By the way, Ukraine doesn’t export guns to US today (to the best of my knowledge), but they do have a fairly healthy civilian firearm industry, including private companies – probably because their gun ownership laws are saner than Russian ones. They even have locally manufactured AR clones (Zbroyar Z-15 and Z-10) which are said to be pretty good. It would be nice if these guys saw the ban on Russian imports in US as an opportunity for their own firearm industry. I’m sure they can make AKs that are every bit as good. And cheap quality ARs (esp. AR-10!) wouldn’t be a bad thing, either.

I believe you are wrong here. If the Obama administration wanted to ban products from Russia, they would have signed a trade and travel embargo. They didn’t. They haven’t banned other Russian products. They haven’t banned Russian made ammo (Wolf, Tula, Hornady) in 7.62×39. They only banned the guns.

They haven’t banned the guns specifically. They banned the products made by specific companies, all of which are connected to specific people on the list of bad guys. In this particular case, one of those companies happened to be the one that almost exclusively makes guns.

I mean, just go and read the executive order. You won’t even find the word “firearm” or “gun” in it anywhere. But you will find a list of companies, which includes, among other things, a couple banks, oil refineries, and a lot of other stuff.

OOOH thanks for clearing that up. I forgot that all of a sudden everything the Obama administration does is upfront and there’s no need to consider he’s just being shady. My bad. So, if we were to ban products made by Smith and Wesson, Rock River, Ruger, Winchester, DPMS, etc that wouldn’t be a gun ban, just a ban on the products they manufacture. Gotcha! And… we are worried about a few banks and an oil refinery? Wake up, mate. This executive order (like every other EO he has signed) doesn’t hurt the bad guys. It just hurts the honest, Constitution-loving Americans that like their freedom.

Molot is a separate company from Kalishnakov (formerly Izhmash), so as far as I can tell this doesn’t affect the Molot Vepr line. I haven’t seen all the info so they may be banned as well. As for the Nagants, a lot of those are actually imported from Ukraine.

Tula is separate from Izhmash which is specifically targeted so it might be OK until they ban them too…We always got Wolf since they source from other countries like the Ukraine, Italy and other countries.

You are correct about Wolf. Wolf sources a LOT of their ammo from Ukraine (the one we’re supporting). Brass cased Wolf ammo is from Taiwan. Wolf itself is a US company that contracts around the globe. We’ll have Wolf for a while…
x39 ammo IMO is not a concern either since it is made all over the world. If we drop Russia as a supplier, supply and demand dictates another company will rush the opportunity to make money.

I’m actually fairly confident that they aren’t. The reason is that in the Russian news, about 2 weeks ago, they were discussing whether Molot becomes a part of the concern in the future, as such proposals were floated (and the timeline stated was “in several months”). No doubt any such proposals would be scrapped now.

And let us not forget that all imports create American jobs too, look at all the American made after market , stocks, magazines, slings, scopes, even American made Ammo, such as 7.62×39 and reloading supplies…The free market is a WIN/WIN… The government has NO RIGHTS here, read 2A again…Call congress and raise hell ….FREEDOM is not FREE………

You might want to read the article that’s linked. It includes pictures of a Molot VEPR rifle at the IWA show with the Kalashnikov Concern logo. You might also want to read the wording of the sanctions a little more closely. They clearly state any company that Kalashnikov Concern has “interests” with will also be affected by the import ban. If they’re sharing logos, booths at trade shows, etc. then clearly money is exchanging hands and they have mutual interests.

Okay, so here’s the most recent from a Russian forum discussion about this…

Apparently, there are actually two companies named “Molot”. The first one is the factory in Vyatskaya Polyana – the one that actually manufactures the firearms. The second one is properly called “Molot Arms”, and is the distributor.

The first one is, indeed, a part of the Kalashnikov Group. The second one is not, but it seems that it doesn’t matter at this point. 🙁

No. The ban on Chinese AKs and what not, instituted by Clinton, is still I effect and will likely never get lifted. Just like this ban.

Whatever Saigas are here / almost here in the U.S. are going to be the last Saigas coming into the U.S. If you want one, get it now. Though a cursory check of a few sites I buy from shows them pretty cleaned out.

Glad I got another when the Ukraine situation started to escalate.

So shed a tear for AK derivatives with Made in Russia etched on the side. Like the Polytech Legend it will pass into gun buying lore. “Remember when we could get Saigas for peanuts?” Them were the days.

Here’s the problem… even if we managed to somehow elect of M249 SAW totin brother Ted Cruz to the whitehouse in 2016, rescinding this executive order is very likely at the bottom of his to do list. There is so much that needs to be done in washington to undo the last 5.5 years and removing and executive order so that a small subset of the firearms community can get cheap Russian made ammo and guns is just not that big. Even to a gunner like Cruz or Perry.

The country is still hemorrhaging money and jobs, the middle east is simmering like an oil field fire, Israel is about to wage holy war on Palestine the list goes on and on, so as tough as it sounds nobody, no matter how sympathetic to the cause, likely gives two whole f*cks about a backdoor ban on AK47 variants from two manufacturers. It will take a few terms of solid pro 2A presidents and zero more events like Sandy Hook if you want someone to finally rescind this, look at the M1’s from Korea deal, that was decades ago, and nothing ever got done about it

I suppose I am a bit of an extremist, but the one thing that would insure I would vote for a particular candidate of any party would be a pledge to issue a single EO on inauguration day revoking ALL of Osama’s EOs without exception.

I actually think that may work out in our favor. The LA basin and the bay area pretty much control the political direction for the whole state. The people in the central valley and the eastern part of the state and up into Redding and Yreka are a lot more pro-gun than the people in LA or the bay area. It might-might-a net positive for us if CA gets broken up.

read somewhere else it would probably be a 4-2 split, 4 democrat 2 republican. I’m willing to believe that.
Good for californians, bad for the rest of the nation. Maybe a 3 state split would be better.

It will never get approved by the Federal Government (which would need to approve it much the same way that a new state would need approval for admittance) unless it is an even split between dems and republicans

They’re working on it. Once they choke off the importation of firearms they will then go after our own manufacturers. You can bet money on it. Nothing is being done to stop them either. I’m starting to lose whatever hope I have left.

Well, they’ll never do that… They need those guns to monopolize violence and power against the American citizens. They’ll just ban all gun ownership and sales to the civilians, which they are doing they’re best to accomplish a little bit at a time.

And since the rifles will dry up, so will the cheap ammo. I tossed around getting into the AK platform, but felt that the AR had the “home team advantage” for parts and ammo. So now I guess I am and will always be in the AR camp, by default.

Read up on the review. You get the benefits of the AK design in an AR. My Navy diver nephew just bought one. He’s the diver taking the remains of the USS Arizona survivors into the Arizona for final burial with their comrades.

Well I thought Obama wasn’t anti-gun. Could I have possibly been fooled by all the “pro-gun Democrats” out there? All 5 of them?

One of the most reliable ways to vote against your 2nd Amendment freedoms is to vote for a Democrat. Sure, some Republicans are also statist and anti-gun, but not nearly as bad as Democrats. Gay marriage and abortion will be legal regardless, so I hereby recommend that gun owners and those who appreciate freedom *ban Democrats* from their voting ballots.

And I say this not as a Republican, but as an Independent Constitutional Conservative.

So far, the candidates that are rumored to be running on the Republican ticket are bad news, and could hand the election over to the dems once again. If the Republicans can’t find someone to take on whichever dictator Dem runs in 2016 they’re not going to have a chance. Although i’m not sure we’re even going to make it to 2016, because at this point I don’t think this country can last. I’m also not sure that Obama is going to willingly leave the W.H. either.

OK, I’m not a Dem or Rep, but if we’re talking about the fascist nature of executive orders then how the hell is this worse than the Patriot Act? The Reps under Bush Jr did more to threaten gun owners than any Dem thus far when they labeled anti-Fed Americans (most hardcore Reps) as domestic terror threats. Hell, Bush Jr even sanctioned the use of actual Nazi legal codes for US military tribunals…Obama may have been (and still be) a disappointment to all, but he’s hardly the closest we’ve had to a Nazi in the White House.

The Patriot Act was bad, fair enough, but it also had a sunset provision. It has been re-authorized by Congress and Obama twice since its first expiration date. Talk about W all day if you want, as Obama still does, but the fact is that the Patriot Act is Obama’s baby now and has been for years.

THIS, my friends, is why you must always stick to your principles, no matter what and no matter who is in the White House. Plenty of people disliked the Patriot Act, but figured it was ok since W was president. Well, he wasn’t president forever, now was he? Likewise, plenty of Democrats claimed to hate the Act, under W, despite voting for it. Yet, now that it’s Obama, you never hear anything out of the Dems about the Act’s abuse of civil rights, plus they voted to reathorize it….twice. Well, Obama won’t be president forever, now will he?

If you want to avoid becoming a third world tribalistic nation of savages, where every election is an occasion to exact lawless revenge on your enemies, then you need to uphold the Constitution EVERY time. No exceptions for guys on your team. No shortcuts “just this one time.” No bending the rules for the so-called greater good. And for the love of God, quit propping up statism with the crutch of “reasonable restrictions” on people’s freedom.

And let’s not forget that the scope of the militarized police industrial complex and no-knock raids were heavily advanced by Nixon and Reagan – both Republican “good guys”

The fact that I am coming to realize is that neither party cares about much beyond perpetuating its own power in spite of what they may say. The sad thing is that every election, we keep going along with it.

You could make the gun control argument about Daddy Bush but you are ignorant as hell if you think you can pin gun control on Dumbya. He had many faults but Gun Ban agenda wasn’t one of them. The worst Gun Ban presidents have been Banes Johnson, Slick Willy, Barry and Daddy Bush in that order. The only reason Barry isn’t ahead of Banes is the push back.

I saw this coming some time ago. This really is a very nice opportunity for Obozo to ban some of the AKs while defending us from the ” enemy”. Never waste an opportunity. I think both Century and I/O have AKs that are mostly made in America. I can see a lot of imported guns banned by Obozo and the Donkey Rats as they have no ” sporting purpose”.

In what way is this confusing? They are placing sanctions on Russia and Russian companies. If you own one and it’s already paid for then Russian can’t benefit, if you have stock, and Saiga has interest in that stock (like you will pay them when it sells) then Russia benefits and they shouldn’t be sold. Sometimes I swear you all are completely paranoid and tend to overlook incredibly basic concepts because you fear your rights are being striped.

Um, what’s so hard for you to understand basic logic? This means no more Izmash and Saiga rifles, period. Obommo has been looking for an opportunity like this and now he has it, and he’s definitely not going to ever rescind it. The next president is more than likely going to be HillBill, and she definitely wont either. By the time the next GOPer is in office the companies will either have gone under, or this issue will be forgotten, and this order will never be rescinded. That’s how BS politics works and it sucks. Let people vent.

Our government ought not be telling a free people that they cannot purchase these products. The POTUS is out of line and so is any agent of government who endorses, enforces, or otherwise assists this act of petty tyranny.

With all due respect, please read what I wrote again. I specifically used the phrase “ought not”; meaning that government shouldn’t be able to. I don’t dispute that they have some privilege under our system with which to do it. I do contend that stopping legal importation is effectively telling us that we cannot purchase these products from the specific manufacturer. In summary, our government shouldn’t be able to tell the American People that they cannot purchase these products from this manufacturer.

Does your logic apply to exports, too? If I, as a private individual, want to export a few crates of AKs to, say, “Donetsk People’s Republic”, should I be allowed to do so regardless of what the feds think about it? What if I’m exporting several kilograms of enriched uranium, and the recipient is Iran?

The power to regulate commerce with other states has been there from the very beginning – it was something that the Founding Fathers penned down, and it wasn’t really controversial among them. There is a good reason for that – commerce with foreign entities always has some foreign relations aspect to it, and the state needs to be able to exercise some control over that, otherwise there’s no state to talk of.

Does your logic apply to exports, too? If I, as a private individual, want to export a few crates of AKs to, say, “Donetsk People’s Republic”, should I be allowed to do so regardless of what the feds think about it? What if I’m exporting several kilograms of enriched uranium, and the recipient is Iran?

Unless there’s something I’m missing. As far as I can tell, they just went after the company named Kalashnikov, because it’s a notable name. I don’t know if they just don’t know fuck all about the Russian Arms industry, and think KC does all the work, or they’re mostly going for symbolism.

In fact, you already couldn’t get a non-sporting Kalash straight from them anyway.

Who cares about the sporting classicifcation when they were easily converted or very usable as they were imported. Removing Saiga & Veprs from supply stream will significantly cause upward pricing pressure on the AK family.

Welcome to your nightly installment of foreign policy theater. For tomorrow night’s episode the President will ban imports of Russian caviar, while Putin slowly shakes his head in pity at what used to be a mighty adversary.

Maybe never. Maybe they’re targeting KC for the name value, and it’s largely symbolic. Maybe they went after KC because it has close ties to Putin. Or because it makes firearms for the Russian Army. (The other arms companies on the list seem to be big Russian Army suppliers with times to the regime.)

Pretty sure Kalish is actually just another name for “Russian government” – so it kinda makes sense, even if it sucks and won’t do anything except screw over the worker bees in Russia.. It’s not like pootie-poot is gonna miss any meals because of this..

The way this works is that they have a list of people who (purportedly) contribute to the ongoing hostilities in Ukraine. So the companies that get on the list are those that are owned by, or somehow otherwise tied, to those people. Izhmash is one such company.

This has gone to far why are they doing the same thing as Hitler we need to stop this before it starts to snowball out of control this is our country these are are firearms and our lives on the line if they can ban guns I want to ban smart phones cause in there words (i think u don’t need it)

People, this is where the 10th Amendment becomes very important. People need to become active in their own states and help introduce legislation to nullify federal intrusion on our rights. The naysayers will tell you that the nullification movement wont work or does not work. History has shown that it has, will and does work! Just do some research. Check out http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com

@Jeff: +1 but it wasn’t just Norinco rifles. AFAIK, my favorite 1911s haven’t been able to be imported since the “sanctions,” ban, or whatever. These things seem to get implemented and never go away, IMHO.

@Jeff: My thought was that a shotgun ban would’ve caused too much of a backlash from the 2A-but hunter/target shooter crowd in 1993 (& maybe 2003?). The “Street Sweeper” thing riled many but since hunters and target shooters didn’t “need” them…

I am worked up at Mr. Leghorn’s article. Gun owners need to be the educated smart type that do full research, and not the gun-nut imbeciles the lefties make them out to be. The worst thing gun owners can do is jump all over this kind of garbage cherry picked propaganda for the wrong reasons. It makes them look like fools.

Just because Mr. Leghorn is quoting the truth, doesn’t mean he is representing it. There are huge differences. Misrepresenting ones intentions, even though it is not a direct blatant lie, is still deceiving, and thus a lie. Therefore cherry picking data and calling that the truth, is a lie.

He deliberately cherry picked these firearm companies, as you have, and ran with it as a ban against guns by Obama! When in fact, it’s a blanket covering a whole lot of companies, not just “specifically targeting” as Mr. Leghorn says.

In regards to the Norinco scenario getting played out here, we will cross that bridge when the sanctions are lifted. I am sure the far left will target these firearms, but that is a bridge uncrossed.

“Earlier today, the Department of Commerce announced new sanctions against Russian products and companies operating in the United States. Previous sanctions only tangentially impacted the import of cheap and reliable firearms from Russia into the United States, but now the Obama administration is specifically targeting the makers of Saiga rifles and shotguns, as well as other companies.”

First paragraph is pretty clear in explaining that firearms are not the only thing being targeted by sanctions.

Nick then goes on to post the SAME EXACT LINK to treasury.gov that you posted.

This is a firearms blog. We’re primarily concerned with firearms. Forgive me if I don’t care whether or not TTAG takes the time to directly report that Russian-made toaster ovens may also be affected by sanctions.

TTAG may jump the gun on some stories, but this isn’t it. Nick got it 100% correct, and he reported exactly as much as TTAG readers will care to know, while still providing the means to read the official statement – in the first paragraph, nonetheless, and not buried at the bottom of the story like you would find in some mainstream publications. That is not “propaganda,” that is reporting on the subject matter that your business revolves around.

In regards to the Norinco scenario getting played out here, we will cross that bridge when the sanctions are lifted. I am sure the far left will target these firearms, but that is a bridge uncrossed.

That statement doesn’t make a lot of sense. AFAIK, we still cannot import Norinco products. The far left already targeted Norinco and won. The right never rolled it back, AFAIK. Are you expecting Norinco products to be importable anytime soon? I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.

As has been previously noted, this is a gun blog. Irrespective of the reason behind the sanctions, the end result for prospective customers of Saiga and some other Russian guns will be their elimination from the primary retail market. People who were on the fence about getting one are now on notice that if they ever want to have one, they should probably get off the fence in the next day or so.

Some sanctions are temporary measures ex: sanctions against apartheid South Africa. Others tend to be more permanent in nature ie: sanctions against Cuban cigars. Given the position of the respective players, Russia is not going to quit fiddling with the Ukraine any time soon and the U.S. really doesn’t have the power (or for that matter the moral responsibility or right) to do anything about it. The upshot of this is that once these sanctions are in place, it is likely that they will be permanent. Give me one example of a Federal level gun ban that was repealed (and the 1994 AWB does not count because it had a sunset provision built-in from the start).

Saigas and some other guns are going away from the primary retail market – probably for good. This is news that impacts gun people and should be reported here. While I read about the sanctions in a more general way on other news sites, TTAG was the first place that I read about the specific impact they would have to the gun community.

Whether the intent of the sanctions were to prevent the sale of new Saigas (and others) in the U.S. is irrelevant. The result of the sanctions will do just that.

Your argument makes no more sense than the person who argues that the Hughes amendment doesn’t prevent the ownership of machine guns. After all, you can still own them if you do all the paperwork and jump through the right hoops. What the Hughes amendment did was to fix permanently the supply of machine guns available. As demand increased, prices did as well.

These sanctions will have the same effect in time. Those Russian guns in the U.S. will get more expensive until they reach a point where they definitely cost more than they are worth.

I don’t understand what you are worked up about either. Nick provided the same link as your second one and in no way stated that the firearms were the only thing affected. I know it is crazy that a firearm blog would would focus on the effects an EO has on firearms. If you honestly think there is no chance that this is also about seizing an opportunity to eliminate the import of a type of “assault rifle” I would reconsider calling others stupid.

Technically, this is close call. The site does not prohibit disagreement which is what M seems to be doing. He’s not launching an ad hominem attack on Nick – merely stating quite forcefully that he disagrees with Nick’s characterization of the situation.

It’s not necessarily an inappropriate charge. Lord knows that TTAG tends to do the Chicken Little thing more than once in a while, blowing a situation way out of proportion in order to stir the pot.

In this case, however, I think Nick’s post is more about information than inflammatory rhetoric.

More to the point, you need to already have a proper fighting rifle, mags and ammo in hand NOW. AR’s of course, but if you have any one of a number of good rifles out there (FAL, M1A, AR10) in either 5.56 or 7.62×51 then that’s what you need to worry about. If you can get an AK or Saiga thats great too.

I’m sorry to say it, but the simple fact is that it looks like we will be at war in some way, shape, or form in the foreseeable future. Until then, we will have to do the best we can at the polls and courts but in the end it may be time to open the cartridge box in anger. At that point I don’t think import regs are going to matter much.

This has nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, which Obama doesn’t give a fvck about anyway. All he cares about is his own power in office. Nothing else. And if he happens to start a civil war in the process, then so be it.

Tom

PS: if it makes you feel any better, I probably waited too long to get an AK myself. But we shall see.

There are a lot of AKs out there for sale. There are not as many choices for 5.45 guns but the majority of those seem to be something other than Saiga. I’m not sure how people react. Atlantic still has Saiga 12s for sale among other Saiga rifles. The VEPR 12s seem to be selling out all over though. That could just be because stocks were already low or people wanted to get ahead of a potential ban on Molot products.

not. Plenty of other former East Bloc countries make AK-74 pattern guns. You should be able to find them without too much trouble. Unless you absolutely want a Russian made one, I’d not go crazy.

Plus, most of the commie surplus (sorry Russian surplus) ammo available for the -74 is corrosive. Granted, it’s not a huge pain to clean the gun after, but there is something to be said for using American milsurp in an AR-15 rifle and only cleaning it once in a while

See, now this is the kind of logic I like. I understand that when sanctions are made, they have to be blanketed over, even the stuff we like. Small fry stuff like this and the governments won’t care. It’s the banking, shipping, oil, that kind of thing that truly makes this sanction hurt.

Yeah…right….who in their right mind would risk their money with that import law avoidance scheme with the downside that your entire shipment might be held in customs limbo forever. You’d stand better odds at the blackjack table.

noone said they were comin for em, they said we couldnt get em after this. cheese n rice. as i said earlier to a diff guy, perhaps assuming everoyone else is a dipshit may be misplaced blame (you may be the dipshit)

and sure, the guns are still “available”, but not at teh price they were. dont birng up what eggs or milk used to cost thats a stupid argument

About a month ago I put my Saiga up on Gunbroker. Then I realized there was no way I could sell that cheap piece of awesomeness so I took it down again. Phew! But I guess getting extra mags for it just got harder.

Smart choice! I thought about selling mine back in 2008 as I never shot the thing. I pulled it off the market and then got busy doing things in other countries. I came back and started converting it. It’s been a fun project and I am so glad I kept it! I did sell a .308 Saiga so I could buy a VZ 2008 and some CZ pistols. It was a cool rifle but the magazine selection was limited to polymer and one expensive metal version. If I want .308 I have my PTR-91 instead.

Bingo! You sir, win a prize! You should shout ‘BINGO’ now…really…because you nailed it, go buy yourself a prize for being the winner. After Nov 2014 we shall see the true face of our enemies. Tick tock.

From that article:
Ranking Member John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich.): “We must do all we can to reduce the unacceptable level of daily gun violence in America, and I believe we can do more to address the problem of military-style assault weapons imported into this country. I ask that the President and the administration take steps to update and reinvigorate this ban and help keep more of these weapons from getting to our streets.”

It’s not their glaring and willful disregard for our rights as citizens of this country, or their transparent attempt to use this opportunity to push their pitiful agenda that troubles me. It’s that these bans on Russian rifles and Russian companies aren’t truly about sanctions at all. Aren’t we, as a nation, supposed to be sort of punishing Russia for invading their neighboring country? Does Ukraine even factor in this gun grab? Did we run out of harsh rhetoric? If the administration was really serious about an effective ban, vodka would be somewhere on that list.

When you see one in person, you will feel like $400 is too much to pay…. I have, don’t get me wrong I love the rough around the edges feel of a WASR 10/63. But, those Chinese guns feel like they might fall apart in your hands. Nothing like a Norinco.

Shouldn’t all of you patriots be buying American-made guns anyway? I bet you complain about folks who drive Japanese cars, but you cry ironically about it when you can’t get your hands on a Russian gun? Where is your sense of American Pride? You should be ashamed of yourselves, you lazy turds. A REAL patriot would find a way to produce the same product domestically instead of trolling the president on the internet. Grow a pair and go out and make a difference instead of ignorantly speculating about the unknown like a bunch of middle-school girls. You’re the same kind of idiots who are getting guns banned at retail stores and chain restaurants because you’re too stupid to stay under the radar. Keep squeaking – drown yourselves in the grease. Your boy Bush II made all of us potential domestic terrorists – you’re lying to yourself if you think they’re not monitoring all of these forums right now. If you really want to avoid any more gun control THEN STOP POINTING GUNS IN EVERYONE’S FACE. You uneducated nitwits are going to ruin it for the rest of us who are just trying to protect ourselves and enjoy our hobby responsibly. For the love of Guns: PLEASE SHUT UP and go read a book.

Export/import bans are always viewed as a ACT OF WAR! Our import/export bans on Japan started World War 2,open and fair free trade is view as a act of peace. also cheap imports help keep the poor man FREE…Russia is acting in PEACE and the USA is acting in WAR. The market sets the price , keeps price down, supply of demand, and if left alone the market keeps the PEACE, and keeps us free…and happy!

Import/export bans are always viewed as ACTS OF WAR! our import/export bans on Japan started world war 2, open and fair free trade is viewed as acts of PEACE. The open and fair trade market helps the poor man be free, open markets make for PEACE and freedom/liberty…………We have no free press in America ! We have a controlled press and markets….We need to learn from history,,, Russia is the only one trying to keep peace … we are upside down in our views….What do they say , if we learn any thing from history IT is WE WILL NOT LEARN ANY THING ,,, This year is the 100 year birthday of world war 1 , the WAR TO END ALL WAR>>>>ha ha…..

Many (including Japanese) foreign car companies have plants here in the U.S. Even American car companies have parts from other countries (my Ford Escape engine comes from Spain, but the transmission is U.S. built, not sure about the frame). It’s almost come to the point that most cars on the road are indistinguishable from being Foreign or Domestically built, so it is impossible to buy a new car that is “Patriotic”.

Oh and calling everyone else ignorant while spouting it does nothing to bolster your claims.

I parted with my Saigas last year, and as much as I hate selling off perfectly good guns, the 5.45 import banned proved it was a good call.
Owning a 5.56AK was not my first choice in the fall of 2012, but it has proven to be some of the best money I ever spent.
As for blocking imports of Saiga in general, infuriating as it might be, I’m surprised it didn’t happen the first time our failure in chief thought he could shame the bear by regulating international commerce.
This guy is a buffoon. I dont know what pisses me off more- the fact he just can’t stop trying to f*ck over gun owners, or that he thinks doing so somehow would make Putin feel bad.
Next time my boss is mad at me, I’m going to go punch a coworker in the nuts until my boss is happy with me again.

Vepr is not gone (yet). As for the 7.62 conversion for the Sig, probably not this year. They have not made any conversion kits available yet and the 300 BLK would be easier as its just a barrel. If you want a 7.62 x 39 Sig, then the standard 556R is probably all you will see this year.

I’m honestly not too worried about it. I just recently sold off most of my 7.62×39 stuff and bought things for my 500 S&W, which I use to hunt with more than anything anyways. I’ve got two other 5.56 rifles (An M85 PAP SBR and the Sig556) so if anything serious goes down I can at least count on those. I had my 7.62 AK for cheap way to get range practice, and the fact that I love big holes.. But who knows. I can more than likely wait, haha.

Joe – unfortunately Republicans are not much better. Remember the Hughes amendment came in under Reagan and both he and Nixon hugely ramped up transfer of Federal dollars and surplus military gear to local police.

Choosing between Democrats and Republicans is like choosing to die of a gunshot or a slow disease. In the end you get to the same place, but one team takes a little longer to get there,

I fully recognize that Republicans have not been perfect on gun control issues in the past. However, what happened in the 1980s or 1990s really has no bearing on the current political situation, Democrats are controlled by hard core socialists /progressives like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, and are guaranteed to take your evil black guns if they have the votes. Republicans as a whole are firmly in the Second Amendment camp. There may be some gun grabbers in the midsts of the Republicans ranks, but they are the exception and not the rule. I remember the 2008 elections, when some of my shooting buddies told be “Obama is not going to take your guns” and I told them they were smoking crack. Turns out I was right – at least with regard to intention – the fact that he has not succeeded is certainly not because of a lack of effort. If you vote Democrat these days, you are simply a traitor to the Second Amendment cause.

This president isn’t going to tell me a damn thing what I can and cannot buy from any country… I didn’t vote for him, don’t trust him and after all he has done since taking office, I have no respect for him either.

Bill Clinton also put a ban on China made Ak’s rifles and even pistols and ammo, so that’s is why we buy no stuff from China and that ban has been held all these years too. The truth be told it is Russia that is the one keeping the peace, We have got to stop the Neo-cons before that destroy the world. They want World War 3 and they want it now…

I have one Saiga .223 that I did a full AK-101 conversion on, when Bulgarian AK-74 parts were cheap. I’m glad I have it, but I don’t feel the need to rush out and buy the last Saigas on the shelves.

Personally the Saigas were not that great of a value any more, considering the work that you have to put into them if you want them to be “correct.” I was never really satisfied with just the basic conversion.

Zastava in particular is putting together a far higher quality AK than Izhmash was.

In all fairness, and the post should be clarified as such, this is not an overt act of gun control, it is a result of the renewed cold war between the US and Russia, and the subsequent invasion of the Crimea and unrest in Eastern Ukraine. That’s a legitimate reason. You should be really buying US anyways and supporting the US economy and our local firearms manufacturers.

It is very interesting that Obama is using the situation in Russia to push this ban through. Likely he is doing it to protect his attack on the 2nd Amendment by means of cloaking it as a political question. The term political question is a legal term of art. In short, courts are reluctant to interfere with decisions by the president that concern political questions such as foreign policy. All I can say is this is constitutionally very sneaky. We are dealing with an ‘enemy’ that is well informed and that has clever lawyers on his side. We need to be eternally vigilant.

This is ridiculous one stupid diction after another. The O’dumba administration needs to go. What good is it doing anyone to ban a firearms. Locks are on doors to keep the honest people out. Do they not realize this.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to ban financial institution ties than firearms?
This seems like some lame back door attempt to appease Obamas gun control cohorts than to do any REAL protest to issues in Ukraine. LAME.

As of 10:45 AM today all saiga products are sold out of every distributor we know of. Our rep at RWC has been unreachable since daybreak (busy phone). Yesterday there was a glut of these guns. Today, zip.

Any further things I want to do with my Saiga happen to involve US-made parts so the supply should be there.

Magazines for me are looking pretty good, though I can always buy US-made ones for range practice.

I am fully opposed to this action, but I am only worried about the ammunition supply of x39. Pricing out reloading materials I see that handloading it makes a much more expensive cartridge than it would be from Wolf. For those of you who didn’t see this coming, shame on you. We all knew Obama was going to find something to ban. I got mine in before the Obama-generated panics, and my only regret is not getting even more 7.62×39 (even though my wallet wouldn’t have allowed for it)

I think everyone here is pretty educated so blame/ shame is not really in order…but the rest of the country is a whole different story!! America has become dumb, downright stupid. Most ppl don’t even know who Joe Biden or Pelosi are. Thats the epidemic, thats the true shame. We the people are voting these pigs into office, we (the small percentage) that know what’s going on are too small to make a change, we have to wake up the rest of the country, the idiots too busy to pay attention because we cant affect anything, we are just barely getting by and struggling to hang onto our rights. And on our way out I might add. Indeed we are losing.

Looks like I was right to hurriedly purchase my Saiga after all. This is going to cause a serious run on gun shops and another panic buy of all things based on the AK design.

I’m going to swing by the local gun shop tonight after work and see if the shelves are empty again.

Keep an eye out, I suspect that Ear Leader’s next move is going to be to pressure the ATF to begin ruling various firearms are “destructive devices” requiring Title II paperwork and taxes just as Bill Bastard Clinton did in the late ’90s with the revolving cylinder shotguns. That was after he’d lost congress to the other side and had to use fedgov’s bureaucratic power to impost technical restrictions wherever he could.

With any luck, the way president urkel is digging his own party’s grave, come the November elections we may be rid of the Demo’rat crime syndicate forever. The immigration fiasco happening this close to November was bad enough, but the ‘bamster just woke up the 2nd amendment voters. The election results are probably going to make the 2010 midterms look downright merciful toward the ass party.

I had a Saiga, I loved it but it had issues and I wanted a tromix so I sold it.
Obummer is using the death in Crimea/ Ukraine to pass his liberal agenda? Really? Why Ill tell ya an import much more dangerous…Vodka! lol Oh and by the way, I saw the new D’souza movie America…I would recommend every person sees it. Go speak your voice with your dollars dammit, I didnt want to go out in 107 degree heat to the theater, but I did because it was important. Sad day when a immigrant knows more about our country and liberty and patriotism then %99.9 of Americans. There is a difference between an alien, foreigner, and immigrant…D’souza is a immigrant, true American.

People do not realize what is going on. The US is preparing for the food riots that are coming. As the worlds population gets closer and closer to 10 billion the governments of the world will be doing more and more to ban any weapon that civilians can use to fight their own government and each other. The earth is only capable of supporting 10 billion people, after that there is not enough land mass to feed everyone off of fruits and vegetables (this is after they begin the banning of meat… too much land will be wasted on feeding and raising meat). Just look at any animal and what happens then that animal because over populated. The numbers need to be culled. Since hunting humans will never work, mandatory education and testing before one is allowed to breed is long over due. Who breeds in large numbers? The uneducated. Who says that is their right? The same politicians that are banning our guns.

First they start with the weapons that scare the anti-gun zombies like the AK, then they will ban by caliber (insisting that large rounds are not needed as hunting will also be outlawed), then finally all civilian owned firearms. It is only a matter of time. They got you all fooled in to the left/right game so you either vote democrat or republican. It is time to stop this game and vote for third parties that you are a part of and that you know the candidates’ real agenda.

The lack of perspective in this article and in the comments section is staggering. This has nothing to do with some gun-grabbing scheme and has everything to do with what’s happening in Ukraine. Kalashnikov is just one of many sanctioned Russian businesses. If you ask me, these sanctions are too tame compared to what the Russians justly deserve. Maybe you’re not aware that they’ve been supplying the Eastern Ukrainina rebels with heavy weaponry like APCs, tanks and artillery pieces. Maybe you’re not aware that they have begun cutting out the middle man (i.e. the rebels) and started shooting down Ukrainian aircraft themselves:
1. Two days ago, they shot down a military transport plane, which was flying at 6500m, which is way above what MANPADS can reach (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/ukrainian-military-transport-plane-shot-down-201471423420802306.html), so there’s no chance whatsoever that the missile wasn’t fired from Russia
2. Yesterday, 2 Ukrainian Su-25 ground attack planes were shot down (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28345039). At least one of them it’s confirmed that it was fired upon by a Russian fighter jet.
3. Today, a Malaysia Airlines airliner with 295 people onboard was shot down over Eastern Ukraine, near the border, while flying at 10000m (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/official-malaysian-plane-shot-ukraine-24599942). Again, that’s way above what MANPADS can reach and the rebels don’t have the AA hardware necessary to get that high up. The most plausible hypothesis is that the Russians thought that it was just another Ukrainian military transport and shot it down.

Under the circumstances, if you really want a brand new Saiga, I invite you to reverse engineer it and built it in the US. You’ll make a lot of money in the process and be able to sleep at night knowing that you aren’t sponsoring sociopaths like Putin and his gang.

I am not advocating appeasement or even ignoring Putin. What I’m stating is that there are greater threats here at home while the public gets distracted by other nation’s problems. I won’t praise our trained communist at home for taking action against some communist far away. One in power here at home will destroy the nation faster than one in Russia.

As a solid conservative in support of a strong national projection of power in regions that are of national interest ….. I have great reservation when the ship is being commanded by a leftist idiot that doesn’t even understand the concept of American Exceptionalism.

Let the UN (minus the U.S.) handle it because they’re so accomplished. (/sarc)

Again, that’s way above what MANPADS can reach and the rebels don’t have the AA hardware necessary to get that high up.

Not so fast. There was a report from AP that indeed the rebels had some BUK hardware and saw it personally. So now the question is was it stolen from a Ukranian base at the confusing start of the conflict or was it supplied by the Russians. I think each are equally plausible.

In this particular case, it doesn’t matter how accurate it is – it’s just hilarious. Basically:

On June 29, TASS reports that rebels have acquired some “Buk” AA systems from an Ukrainian military base that they took over, and that those might be used to secure their airspace.

On July 17, TASS reports that the civilian jet that has been shot was flying so high that it couldn’t be hit by man-carried launchers, and would need something like “Buk” – which there’s no way the rebels can have.

Militia representatives proclaimed the People’s Republic of Donetsk (DNR) took control of the military part number A-1402 air defense (AD) with anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) ‘Beech’. This information was confirmed by ITAR-TASS, the press service of the DNI.

Until today, I haven’t came upon any report of rebels getting their hands on Buk batteries. All the aircraft they shot down up to this point were shot down using MANPADS. I don’t think it’s very plausible that they kept it in reserve for all this time. Also, using an AA missile battery is not like riding a bike, so I doubt the rebels had the necessary expertise to operate it in any way, let alone using it to successfully shoot down an aircraft. That being said, they may have received help/training from the Russians during this whole time, but, if that’s the case, it makes no difference whatsoever if the Russians shot the missile from one of their own launchers or if they sent men to shoot the missile from a launcher captured by the rebels. They’re just as culpable.

Well, like I said, Russian news sources have been reporting the acquisition of “Buk” on June 30. It probably didn’t make it to English-language sources because it’s a relatively minor notice. Until today.

Oh yes, this is almost certainly the case. Even more so now that Strelkov has taken down his earlier blog post boasting about shooting down that An-26…

My theory is that they have indeed acquired “Buk” and pressed it into service – makes sense, since Ukrainian planes have been harassing them from the air for a while now and are their worst pain in the ass. But they didn’t have any people actually trained to use it, so they didn’t know how to properly identify targets. They saw something that looked like a transport to the naked eye, so they assumed it was one and shot it down. Probably someone too trigger-happy and overexcited about getting a new “toy”.

Good for Obama. Not sure why any American would want to buy a weapon of terrorists that have claimed so many American lives. Nor why they would contribute to the economic welfare of Russia and China, sworn enemies of the US of A. Look at the shit they are doing in Ukraine. Next, they will go for other liberated countries such as Latvia and Estonia, which have heavy Russian minorities. Their cause is to destroy NATO.

Communism didn’t die. It just changed names and faces and moved on.
China also supports North Korea, who have nuclear weapons and threatens my country of birth, South Korea.

We have communists and socialists sitting in the seats of power in this very country. In seat of the highest office in our land sits a trained communist. Yet, you praise one communist taking action over another.The immediate threat to Liberty right now is here at home; not overseas.

Second…. no AK got off a table and shot an American or a Korean. It was the commies behind the trigger that did the damage. What are you claiming, that if there wasn’t an AK47 there wouldn’t have been a VietCong?

AFAIK, we are working in plenty of countries where the indigenous folks on our side are on patrol using AK’s. You’ve come to the wrong place to demonize an inanimate object….and a really cool fun one at that.

Who cares? I do. You should. Its not just the firearm or the company thats under fire, its another pin in OUR frickin 2nd amendment rights as Americans. Its an all out assault on us, a scorched earth ground assault against the 2nd amendment may very well begin later this year. Do the math, add up all the states militias members…ill help you out, it’s alot and the powers that be realize that if there is civil unrest here at home lol its not gonna be like Athens. The only way any government could beat their own armed masses is if that country was willing to use advanced weaponry on its own soil. But a disarmed country falls to a dictator very fast with little resistance. Look around my friend, at the world, no country but ours has a 2nd amendment. Should we ban an fn 5.7 and punish Belgium because our law enforcement doesnt like it? I had a saiga, gas ports were all f-ed, had to do a lot of work to the thing and sold it..but it was fun! I think a drunk Russian on a friday made mine but oh well. In closing, I care.

Saiga is thee best ak made, period. My conversion saiga ak’s shoot better than my Arsenal and Poly. The saiga sporting ak was the ticket to a cheap ak of high quality build, many conversion kits, stocks, forearms and ect to customize one your own way. I imagine you call them garbage because you don’t own one, too bad for you as this ban that they call a sanction was a long time coming. I paid 475 per for mine, added 250 in accessories to one and 450 to another and both included the gsmith conversion cost. Calling a saiga ak garbage is like calling a Colt ar garbage just because you don’t own one.

That Saiga quality has been crap for a while is widely known among Russian gun owners. A cursory reading of Russian gun owner forums (if you know the language or use online translators) will show plenty of threads about this. They don’t make things better by showing how they make those things… the videos are really depressing.

lol The guy that’s endlessly commenting on this article replies to yet another comment. What are you stalking this thread? I read all these comments here and you just keep on popping up ranting about this and that. Good advice for you would be this saying by Mark Twain, “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.” My saiga converts are the best ak’s I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned a lot over the years. Move on to a new thread friend.

I’m not sure if you ever bothered to look at the screen, Lars, but there’s a checkbox at the bottom that says “Notify me of follow-up comments by email”. This actually notifies of all comments to the article where you enable it. So I’m not stalking the thread; it’s just that, every time you post something ridiculous to it, it lands right into my inbox. And I do have an unfortunately strong case of the “someone’s wrong on the Internet” syndrome.

I don’t know about the relative quality of Saigas vs all the “other AKs” that you’ve owned. If they’re really so superior, then I would suspect that those other AKs are that crappy, which should not come as a surprise, really (there’s no shortage of crappy AKs on the market). Regardless, in terms of absolute quality, Saiga is not it.

Dude, im sorry but why does that really matter? American firearms are great sure, but so are a lot of other countries. Have you read um, say….Remingtons motto? this is not word for word but it goes something like this, “we sell to law enforcement and our military and the civilian who wants to stay safe” lol safe from what? our own officials? They are all sellouts, with few exceptions like magpul. Who gives a shit? American made manufacturers sell first to cops who look like fricking storm troopers and flash bang babies on general blanket no knock warrants? Reading history proves that helped start a revolutionary war. Ours.

While I generally am against any prohibition on the import of firearms, in this case I am in agreement with the Obama administration. In light of the Malaysian Airlines shootdown (most likely either by Russian-backed separatists or Russia itself), all trade between the U.S and Russia should cease.

First, the ban occurred the day before the jet was shot down.
Second, you may agree with a ban, but that doesn’t make it right. What’s your favorite gun to have access to? The next time a James Holmes shoots up a movie theatre with an AR-15, should we ban all of those? Should be ban the Israeli bullpup (can’t remember name. Tivor?) because they are in a skirmish with the Hamas? Should we ban HK pistols because Germany was involved with the Holocaust?

Obama banned GUNS, not Russian products. He used the political situation to further his gun control. THAT IS NOT RIGHT!!!! If he wanted to enact a trade and travel embargo like we have with Cuba, I’d be fine with that, guns included. That is not what has happened here.

1. All trade has not ceased.
2. The ban was put in effect on the 16th prior to the shootdown which occurred on the 17th.
3. In 1988 the US Navy downed an Iranian civilian airliner, in Iranian air space, killing all 290 on board, including 66 children. Should all countries have ceased trade with us?

Nah, the Russians have been hurting in the arms trade seriously for the last 15-20 years. The Chinese and the Bulgarians have been killing them in the foreign Military market because they make a better quality arm for around the same price. Izmash and molot were both about to go belly up several times and there were already several restructure periods where their employees were not getting payed for months. This is a convenient way to stop imports to the US by our fake leftist government. The real meaningful sanctions will be if the US stops servicing the debt that they talked the Russians into buying. An arms embargo is chump change compared to the debt. If they stop servicing that, then its real and we will likely go to war….

The real REAL problem is that Russia/China/Iran/Syria/Brazil/Korea-north (BRICKS) are not going to support PETRO DOLLAR , but will take gold or all paper money for OIL / GAS etc….it is not about Crimea etc. or about guns from Russia ,or about a air liner being shot down… It’s about the Start of world war 3 to kill billion for a NEW WORLD ORDER only………wake up AMERIKA ! have been had again …THE BIG LIE!

The US is not going to do anything substantial to Russia because as soon as they do winter will be here and Russia will cut off a 1/3 of Europe’s oil and natural gas not to mention that it can bring Ukraine to it’s knees the same way. WTF is the little boy in the whitehouse going to do then? He gets owned by Putin every time and this is no exception. Putin already has Crimea and Obama can do nothing. Putin makes Obama look like the weak inept little child he is. Obama is a national embarassment.

There are no meaningful sanctions at this point. Putin took Crimea without firing a shot while the skinny little boy in the whitehouse sat around with his thumb up his behind. Sorry to tell you but they aren’t giving it back. The only question is how much more of Ukraine they will gobble up and with Obama at the helm I’m betting on quite a bit. Obama is NO MATCH for Putin. He’s a joke and Putin repeatedly demonstrates just how big a joke Obama is.

A little background history here , It was the military surplus firearms in the 1950’s that opened up the shooting world to the middle class , and as the rich went hunting world wide , it was the big middle class in the USA that has made the NRA and shooting sports grow big, so again this buy made in America stuff does not fly for we me… I support ALL FREEDOMS , and the FREE MARKETS is what has made America….GREAT … Why because – a MOB controlled union job is anti-American and prices would be so high no one in middle class or lower would have any LIBERTY……… It’s is very interesting to see how well a job our Socialist media and public schools have done , just reading what people say , and sad to say most have NO CLUES about our history, our past or our system of LIBERTY as found in the BILL OF RIGHTS , I could care less about Russia, BUT it is a right to but any firearm I want. IN fact Amerika need to stop running the world and maybe start fixing AMERICA like fix our ROADS would be a good start… I GIVE A DAMM ABOUT THE WORLDS PROBLEMS ,,, BUT I LOVE AMERICA FIRST and hate all the GLOBALIST -one world SHI- and I am sick of all the MEDIA LIES……….

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
pastor Martin Niemöller

Those who say good I didn’t want one anyway are missing the point. They slip these things in wherever they can. All federal gun control measures are commerce regulations, whether internationally or interstate. That is their back door around the 2nd, the “commerce clause” is their only constitutional power that can be utilized. To say this isn’t a ban is to say there are no federal gun bans.

All the liberal trolls commenting keep saying the same liberal talking points, that everyone concerned about their rights are stupid loser conspiracy nut jobs, and their lord and master koolaid server, king of the obamanation isn’t coming for your guns…
You guys do not seem to see how ignorant that makes you look considering that “reducing the number of military style semiautomatic weapons on our streets by any means necessary” has been his and his administrations publicly stated goal since his debates with mittins in the last election. They discovered that, inspite of their tactic of telling a lie enough it’ll become truth, their media blitz proclaiming most Americans were in favor of reasonable gun control the facts said otherwise.

During Bush years an average of 5 million guns were sold per yr, by background checks. When Obama came in 08 sales rose to 14.5 million average for his first term. He stated a desire to pursue an AWB during his debates for second term. Upon his reelection sales doubled from the already high pace to 2.1 m in Nov alone. Then Sandy hook in Dec took it to 2.7m. Followed by 2m per month after, which gun manufacturers couldn’t sustain.

In the midst of a down economy people voted with their wallets when politicians and liberal mainstream were shoving antigun violence in our face at every turn. Remember, even the superbowl had the sandy hook kids paraded around and sportscasters promoting anti2a?
Yet even with staggering unemployment, upside down mortgages, defaulting student loans, etc, people found money for inflated things like $1500 ar15’s, $60 magazines, and millions of $1 per rd ammunition to feed them. This told gun grabbing politicians the truth about what people wanted, they backed off, but haven’t changed their agenda just their tactics.
They will take what they can get, but they can’t say “stopping the flow of AK47’s to our streets” because they found that’s unpopular. However, if they say “trade sanction against Russia for it’s aggressive actions” then some say yeah you show’em, and others yawn and look for sports news. He gets to appear like he’s attempting to be effective internationally while fulfilling his agenda under the radar, with plausible deniability. Like others have said this is a firearms blog and is only reporting news relevant to firearms the other parts of the sanctions are not of concern to this blogs readers.
As others have mentioned about norinco, there are many others on the books, like some against fal’s, or the reimport bans on our own arms we paid for. All these things compound increasing costs for us and thus reducing our standard of living.

If we really wanted to help the people of that region we should help them conduct a vote to see what their citizens want. If it’s found a majority want either pro-eu or pro-Russia help them go the way they want. If they are divided, maybe the nation needs to be split(east-west, north-south).

Russia is no friend of ours but neither is the EU. We’re like the older dude at the underage party, no-one wants us there but they’ll use us for free booze. The United states tax payers will continue to get used til we stop or we collapse. If some time down the road they choose draw swords on us, we will deal with it…but the world powers telling THEM who’s side THEY are on will only instill resentment in their hearts insuring an enemy. With the level of prorussian, antigovernment activity I’m not so sure we’re on the citizens side.

>> If we really wanted to help the people of that region we should help them conduct a vote to see what their citizens want. If it’s found a majority want either pro-eu or pro-Russia help them go the way they want. If they are divided, maybe the nation needs to be split(east-west, north-south).

Like it’s that easy.

First of all, a meaningful referendum cannot be conducted in the area while there’s heavy fighting. So you need to convince both sides to stand down for long enough.

And why would they? As far as separatists are concerned, they already had a referendum. As far as the government is concerned, the Constitution of Ukraine does not permit such a referendum.

But okay, suppose you’ve got acceptance from both sides, and a truce that holds long enough. Where do you conduct it? Do you have a single vote in the entire region claimed by the rebels? Or separately in each of the two regions? Or only in those parts of it that rebels still control?

What if a region is split, say, 55% to 45%? Does the majority take all? What guarantees does the minority have that they will not be targeted for reprisals afterwards? To remind, some among rebel military leaders have already voiced sentiments such as “we will kill all who blaspheme our faith”.

My point on that is that we keep pushing and blindly backing EU & UN, neither has the principles we are founded on. If we were promoting a constitution like ours I’d be more likely to feel like we’re giving them something worth fighting for. I wouldn’t want either of what they’re getting handed.

History has shown that despotic totalitarians do not last long in power. Their successor is often quite good at appeasing the masses, as they know what lies ahead if they don’t. We are discussing a war zone, not a place of sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows. It will not get better til years after the dust settles, foreign powers churning that dust up only delays this. It must be settled internally for it to last.

In your response you say “your constitution” which leads me to believe you are either an anti-American far lefty extremist or a brit judging by your monarchy-parliament comments. I’ll venture a guess that it’s both. If my assumption is correct, the sanction in question has no effect on either you or your economy. This renders all your opinions on it quite moot indeed, as this sanction is only prohibiting US citizens from procuring products.

Saiga rifles have two markets here. First, people living in more fascist liberal states have few AK variants to choose from…and the saiga was great in quality vs price. Second, the saiga platform was a great value for someone wanting to have a personalized custom AK. The $299 price was likely marked up twice(importer, distributor, retail) since entering our country. This means probably only half that went to Russia. Once in an owners hands most choose to make it 922 compliant, requiring a minimum of 6 US made parts. This could be as little as a $20 trigger, $20 bullet guide, & domestic magazine…however most like to change furniture which can exceed another $200. In the end people usually have around $600, minus optics, invested into an all new(no used surplus) customized AK. So this means $450 goes to domestic firms, if only $150 makes it back to Russia.

You are correct that Russia/Soviet union has had some real winners in human rights. They are not the only ones either. Anytime a government takes its subjects freedom of choice and personal protection, despots can hold out. A good introduction into what can happen is found at, http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm.

That is why I said all they’re options are crap. If they had a constitution like ours, they would have a separation of powers. Ours is Legislative, Judicial, and Executive(which are all equal, but Obama is trying over rule here). Since we declared our independence because of a lack of local representation in government, we also divide into local, state and federal. This division of power makes sure no one person is entrusted sole power.

Our 1st amendment protects our right to speak out.
Our 2nd gives us something to back up our first.
If they don’t want this…well then they get what they get..

Russia has a constitution with a separation of powers (it is modeled after the US and French constitutions to a significant extent). The problem is that constitution is just a piece of paper. It isn’t worth shit if no-one cares to enforce it.

Heck, go read the Constitution of the USSR adopted under Stalin some day. It was pretty good actually, as far as rights and freedoms go… too bad that nobody cared about it.

You make my point exactly.They all lack the key to freedom, armed citizenry with capability to defend themselves against their own government. This is the most fundamental principle to keep oppression at bay. Without that it is just a piece of paper.

Our founders only had a provision for a navy (had there been manned flight an airforce would likely have been supported as well). A standing professional army has only one purpose, occupational force. Either abroad or domestically, both violate our founding principles. This is why they were opposed to an army, and gave us 2nd for when someone would eventually try to forcefully take control (again read article 46 of the federalist papers).

All the people you’ve condescendingly ran down and mocked on this thread have been doing exactly what it requires to remain free, being vigilant and outspoken in the soft war, the one of words and ideas. We have had our capacity for defense whittled down by things like this sanction for 80yrs now. The gca of ’68 being the worst. Nobody wants it to ever get to a hard war, this can only be avoided if people stay informed and fight politically, and speak out when infringements happen or are proposed.

As you stated, if nobody cares nothing will help. Those on this site care so there is hope here. If they don’t care over there I guess thats their problem(you can take that anyway you want I mean them all).

Our independence was won by just 3% of the population. There was another 3% loyal to Britain, the rest didn’t care enough to take sides, some things never change. There was the comfort of familiarity under British rule, and the unknown of the what would happen in its place. Most kings and the colonists thought Washington wouldn’t relinquish power and there just be a new king….

My point is they will have to fight for their freedom…then fight to keep it…

For those who commented that the sanctions are justifiable…you should learn your history a little better. In the mid 1930’s the world was suffering from economic and political turmoil. People had their faith in capitalism shaken. So communism, socialism, and fascism all gained popularity as they charged ahead to a similar outcome. Germany seemed to be the shining example of being on the right track for solving all problems.

You seldom see or hear any mainstream documentaries about the period before the Poland invasion. In that time Germany was considered by much of the world, not only justified, but acting as a peace keeper bringing stability and prosperity through order.
In ’33 & ’34 it started with a series of laws and decrees. They transformed a Germany who’s structure was not too unlike our own division of power. It was considered “justified” because of parliaments inaction and inconsistent local governments, that they should centralize the power, to bring less debate and more action…for the people of course. Then because of terrorism and violence, it was “justifiable” to restrict other political parties effectively making a one party system with legislation similar to our patriot act.

The dark side of socialism is that the books will not balance unless opposition and unproductive individuals are removed. Germany looked so good on the surface that Austrians voted to annex with them. Handing over control was deemed quite “justifiable” to them, even when they registered firearms, followed by confiscation. The world powers found it “justified” to let Germany send peace keeping forces into Czechoslovakia. Which conveniently rendered it completely defenseless. People even “justified” polish invasion because of hostilities toward Germans on the border.

In the US at that time the liberals/progressives of the period wanted changes like in Germany. We lost half our privately held wealth when we centralized our banking. The fed confiscated citizens gold and once they got it, doubled the exchange rate, rendering the the compensation paid out worth half. But that was “justifiable”, to get economy going and stable for FDR’s great society.

My point in this long rant is that when you forsake principles for reason you can “justify” anything. Principles are a beacon, a fixed point on the horizon to help you course correct, keeping you on track through lifes twists and turns. Our constitution, and it’s intended design, are formed from principles outlined in the federalist papers. These timeless principles have shown throughout history to be true. The reason history repeats, or at least rhymes, is because people, their emotions and desires are unchanging.

The principles at odds with this situation are the circumventing of the equal division of power through executive order, to use a power put in place to help insure free trade, and actually stifle it. This to aid the efforts to install a puppet government against it’s subjects wishes…in short, our despot is misusing an emergency power to expand other despots authority beyond borders. These are the opposite of our constitutions principles.
No world leader wants the masses to have the power contained in our 1&2a, they are afraid of the truth written in the federalist papers article 46…a quick review of that should tell you why no nation or coalition of nations are our friends, we are our power…armed citizenry scares abusive tyrants…

To the “buy American” crowd…I’ve been in unions since ’97, that sentiment is sounded loudly in union rhetoric. If only it were that simple to fix the last 75yrs or so of damage union have unwittingly done, simply over paying for a product doesn’t help our economy.
I say this for two reasons. First, is the funding of liberal/progressive, anti-business politicians with money extorted from workers dues. These workers have no choice as to where their money flows, I’ve never voted for a democrat…but my money has. Liberals complain about wealthy donors, but dems not only have wealthy donors and businesses receiving tax money for donating, they also steal from us all. Most of the democrats ads are sponsored by unions.

Second, everything that is pushed by unions, both politically and rhetoric wise, increases production costs. They harass employees who perform. Saying “Do the minimum…or they’ll just expect more!” or “that’s not in my job description, they can hire someone else for that”. Yet when that company or a competitor opens a new plant in a state with lower taxes thus requiring less wages for the same standard of living, they cry “they took our jobs!”…no buddy, you gave them away when you didn’t compete, and voted for spend happy politicians…

I recall a newspaper where the large story was the same as all the other mainstream liberal media, gm to layoff 50,000. In another tiny story, only an almost hidden paragraph, new Toyota plant hires 70,000. Why not proclaim a 20,000 increase…not likely union, no money for libs…

WHO CARES!!!! Messing with the second ammendment is of course worth getting worked up about and doing something about, but the banning of parent companies who make Saiga’s….WHO GIVES A SHIT!

Buy an AR12 thru Palmetto and you will have something worth owning versus these second class cheaply made garbage weapons! The last time they threatened this i went around and bought them up and posted them up for sale and made some good money to buy QUALITY weapons with.

For those of you who have to have a Saiga or Saiga type weapon, they will just import them under another name (FRICKIN DUH!!!!!. ) And/or, import the kits and complete rifles from another company that can claim the 100,000 rifles they are importing have been paid for for quite some time and there is NOTHING Obama can do about it.

READ people and then you will see that there are so many holes in this ban that its actually embarrasing and retarded! You can own them and importers, dealers, even other manufacturers can import them into the USA as long as there is no moneys owed too the companies listed in the ban!

So…wholesaler DIPSTICK(or WHO EVER) from Russia or where ever can claim and show paperwork( that would only take minutes to create) that they have owned X number of rifles for quite some time and they have been paid for quite some time and there is nothing Obama can do about them! What its says is that the companies listed can no longer receive any moneys after ban date for rifles or items they produce! If you own 100,000 rifles by a listed ban company and they were paid for before the ban date, they can be sold here in the USA without issue!

AND…WHO CARES ANYWAY ABOUT SAIGA RIFLES???? NOW, taking pot shots at the second ammendment is worth getting upset about! I have owned plenty of the Saigas in all calibers and tricked them all out PROPERLY and not one of them makes a top 5 list in any caliber, especially the 12 gauge!!!!! The newer AR12 as used on Heli Hunter smokes the Saigas!!!!!!!!!!

Junk is junk is junk so buy something worth owning and if you cant afford the best then keep saving your pennies until you can instead of settling for second or third or tenth best and then try and claim how great it is so you feel better about what you settled for!!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

I’ll agree with you on the saiga 12, junk from the the factory. With some tinkering it can be reliable. However, all detachable mag shotguns have the same shortcomings…the inability to do tactical reload/topoff & huge, awkward, inconvenient mags. If the ksg wasn’t so flimsy it would be a better choice. I’m not sure if you meant the AA12, which is awesome, though rather restricted by law.

I own ak from 6 different countries(7 if you consider Yugoslavia different from Serbia), all beautiful…except the wasr…all function flawlessly. I likewise haven’t had much of a desire for a saiga rifle, besides SGL arsenals. I found their fit and finish not much better than a wasr. The nonstandard magazine leaves much to be desired as well.

As was said earlier they still were about the only option in some states. Why saigas matter is that they brought competition to the market. This keeps prices down on cheaper but functional rifles, and puts pressure on higher priced manufacturers to provide quality relative to their price. Without that low price point to compete with, all the other offerings have flexibility on prices. Also if the cheapest is $800 we will apply the “you get what you pay for” mentality and accept imperfection for savings at a higher level.

Sks’s are a decent example, when norinco was importing they were a $100. Now $300 is seen as acceptable. Currently AR’s are the most affordable they’ve ever been, do to massive competition in the market. Many of these companies will fail or be absorbed by others in the near future and prices will climb after current stock is liquidated.

Though I own AR and HK pattern rifles as well, my polish tantel in 5.45 & yugo m70 ab2 are my most used, followed by my Psl 54 & 5.45 vepr.

Though you and I may prefer other models, the saigas were quite adequate for many peoples needs. That fact benefited the rest of us as a bar had been set for other manufacturers as a starting point for an entry level rifle in 223, 5.45, 7.62 or .308.

We need more people involved in gun ownership and shooting sports. Saigas gave noobs something to wet their tastebuds with, rather than sitting online dreaming about someday being able to justify to their spouse or mom a pricier model. Every new shooter brings potentially another vote from left to right, and contact with their spheres of influence possibly bringing over more to our side…there is no room for snobbery and elitism here.

Just checked out your ar12 I hope it works out, it looks like a neat idea, other than special ammunition that costs 3x more than buckshot and only available online. The ar10’s tend to be temperamental as well(one blew up in front of me, anothers barrel loosened up, and a ruger one could never feed 2 rds in a row, honestly only saw one ever function decently) .

Big bore ar’s like .458, .50 Beowulf also are ammo and mag picky. And very abusive to lowers, don’t expect more than a 1000 rds through it.

We in Turkey since 2001 with quality and affordable shotguns are a company engaged in the manufacture and export.
Semi-automatic shotguns, super poze shotguns, double-barreled shotgun, single-barreled shotgun, the pump-action shotgun, air rifle, birds, blank gun sounds are serving you with the manufacture and export.

All trade between the US and Communist Red China should cease – oh, I forgot that would hurt the pocket books of rich Republican controlled multi-national corporations that are in bed with a Communist Regime to save money on labor. It would also halt the import of cheap, environmentally destructive, and Chinese worker harming products. That would pose an issue for all the “bubba” Republicans who shop for Red Chinese goods at Walmart and then complain about the “Socialist Agenda”. BTW I am NO Liberal by any stretch of the imagination!

You’re right, they have wide open elections, a free press, rights against self incrimination, anyone can open a business, (you don’t have to be a member of CP or take on half the People’s Army as your partners).

Even in Honk Kong they aren’t telling them who can run in elections, and they aren’t committing ethnic cleansing in Tibet by banning the native religion or importing millions of Hans and forcing intermarriage with Tibetans…

And or course you can have all the kids you want….

nah, there’s NOTHING there redolent of a communist dictatorship…

/I’m shittin’ ya son….just cause they figured out how to allow some top guys to make money / keep hundreds of millions of their sheeple employed / in rice doesn’t make them NON COMMUNIST.

I didn’t say that China is a democracy. They’re not. Nevertheless, they’re not communist. Communism is about the economy – not about having rights or banning religions.

And yes, actually, anyone can open a business in China these days. It’s easier than most everywhere in US, in fact, at least in terms of the amount of fees and taxes that you have to make and inspections you need to pass. Once that business grows large enough, sure, the state will want its cut. But in terms of actual capitalism – you know, freedom of cutthroat competition – China is already more capitalist than US.

Isn’t all this hype over the gun ban simply a sanction put on Russian business for the whole Ukraine invasion issue and Russia’s defiance to withdraw from supporting that takeover? Isn’t it a possibility that those sanctions would be lifted should that conflict end or Russia withdraws their efforts in that region?

This is way off topic for this discussion…but finally a little common ground for me and Mr 19.

China is indeed more capitalistic than the US and increasingly so with each decade. They have more citizens living at an upper middle class standard of living by our standards than we have citizens. They have two college graduates for each position. I’m not saying they are our friends or that we should follow their lead. They are our competition, the only way to beat them is to have a healthy respect for their strengths. To say they have an upper hand merely because their people are abused slaves is to not to know our adversary, and underestimate them to our ruin.

They would already have some form of democratic government if it wasn’t for a fear of, ironically, socialism. Though they have over 300 million in upper middle class, driving Buick suv’s and what not, that’s only 30% of the population. They would need at least 51% to have a chance of making it, otherwise the majority will vote for handouts, destroying all the progress they have long suffered to obtain…like we’re doing here.

People always point fingers at those buying Chinese products. We as a nation over extend and are bailed out by China, yet those same people don’t want to cut back on spending. In peoples personal finances they may not shop Walmart, but they refinance with an international bank and send their debt interest overseas.

If you aren’t through an international bank, your bank has money by bundling your mortgage with others and selling to international banks to have money to make more loans. Clinton passed the fair housing act, by promising the banks if they loan out to high risk & low income individuals with little to nothing down, the tax payers would cover losses. The market boomed, prices rose. Until, as banks knew would come, people defaulted. The internationals didn’t buy, and a product with no demand/buyer has no value, the bubble popped. Tax payers now responsible for the debt borrowed from China to pay the banks. Debt=indentured servitude=slavery, we’re technically Chinas slave labor.

Now with the health care act, Obama promised insurance companies that when they fail the tax payers have their back…

If people want to do good for our nation and beat China, they should stop “keeping up with the Jones’s”. They should get out of debt, and live within their means. Finding ways to alter their life to not rely on income from the government, whether it be a job or handouts. People spend most of their income on interest and taxes, which often leaves our shores. If those expenses were gone they could live on a fraction of their current earnings. The products and services they provide would be affordable and competitive, compounding their buying power.

When time comes to vote, or make other choices, they then could decide on principles not on fear of benefit loss. Banning products limits choices and raises prices. Always allow people keep what they’ve earned and allow them the freedom to spend it as they see fit, money will flow to those who earned it, let them decide who they’d like to give it to.

Or else one day China won’t invade, they’ll just foreclose on and evict us. We do have a lot of one thing they don’t, unfrozen fresh water, which may be a catalyst for our oppression by them in the future.