The biggest problem I have is getting the dough off the counter after rolling it out - it's very stick, and I inevitably end up warping/stretching/mis-shaping the dough which causes it to be very uneven when I get it onto the disc, and of course results in some too-thin and too-thick parts of the dough.

I've tried using more and more flour, but it's still difficult. So far the dough has been too sticky to try and "fold" it over onto itself, move it over, and then un-fold it (the "pie" method as Pete described).

Was your dough overly sticky? If so, how did you go about rolling it out and getting it onto a baking pan/disc?

I'm trying to formulate my "master plan" for dough management before trying again. I'm very close - the move from the roll-out to the disc is my only current hangup.Thanks!

Try this... maybe you have already...after you make the doughball put in fridge covered let get cold, take directly out (put the cornmeal on the table) lay the doughball in it. use rolling pin and flour rolling it over and over (adding flour when it seems to get sticky) to the thickness you want. put on the disc it will strech out better in a colder state and stick to your pan better. let sit for about 45min in a bag like you had used before. Dock with a fork or something like that. Then add sauce and toppings.

on the sauce ther are two sauces one for the thin and one for the thick ,the thin is great.the thick not to hot,last time i ordered i wanted extra sauce on the thin they used the thick dough sauce and it ruined the pie, i will not order again.

I know this is an old topic but I recently have been trying the same thing... Here are some pictures of my dough that I used the same final recipe that you guys came up with(thanks much btw). It came out a bit thick, I didnt have a pan to make it 16" but you can see the dimensions in the pics. Also does this look good?

I used the same final recipe(no whey - couldnt find) and did what you guys call a "proof" for 4 mins at 425. This thing blew up immediatly, by that I mean raised about 3 inches so I poked a small hold in it to let it down a bit... still came out too thick I, which I pressume is because of the size being smaller... Is this expected for these results?

It's been a while since I last worked on this project, but can you tell me where you got the instructions to "proof" the dough for 4 minutes at 425 degrees F? What you did sounds more like "pre-baking" the dough. Without docking the dough or putting on sauce, cheeses, toppings, etc., the dough will inflate like a balloon once it goes into the oven. A Donatos skin is docked but not pre-baked.

Hi all - it's great to hear of more experiments going on out there! I've been a bit quiet on this board, as I figured I'd get some more test pizza's under my belt before posting again, and of course 'tis the time of year to be busy!

xsirxx - as Pete said Donatos doesn't par bake the skin. Generally when I've made it, the skin is very thin before getting sauced and topped. In fact, getting spots that are too thin has been my problem. It's also pretty sticky. It should rise some in the oven, but no quite what you've got in your picture. You might want to try picking up any kind of perforated disk at any kind of kitchen store too, as it really helps! I don't know much about kneeding, but 45 minutes seems like a long time as well. Finally, if you have any Vitamin Cottages or Wild Oats nearby, you might be able to find the whey there. I was able to get it at Vitamin Cottage! I think it is a pretty important ingredient.

Also, I made a couple "clones" for some friends that are also from Ohio, and they were amazed at how close it was! At this point I think the biggest obstacle is going to be the toppings. For example, I made one "mariachi chicken" pizza, which has more standard ingredients (chicken, spices, tomato slices, jalapenos, etc) and it tasted almost exactly like Donatos. Whereas the pepperoni pizza still tasted, well, not like Donatos - the smoked-aged provalone and whatever kind of pepperoni they use really make the difference and the flavor.

There's still some fine tuning to do with the crust, but anyone who follows the most recent recipe and procedure should really be happy with the result!

The next thing I plan to do when I have time is try a side-by-side taste test with the latest recipe compared to an older recipe, but both using the latest procedures. My girlfriend swears that the taste/smell of the dough was closer in previous iterations. The attempts she remembers are attempts that gave me problems in dough management and thickness, but I might be able to work those out easier after all the experiments I've done.

At any rate, I just thought I'd chime in again here now that we have some more tests!! Good stuff!!

I assume that you have been sampling the real Donatos pizzas since the last iteration of the clone pizza dough formulation was posted. Can you tell from the taste of the crust whether the eggs and milk products are still being used? I did a Google search and couldn't find anything recent to that effect. The Donatos website is also silent on that score.

Also, what baking methodology have you been using with your home oven?

Hi there Pete - yes, I've had to travel quite a bit this year and have gotten back to Columbus a few times (in fact, I'll be back again this week!!). I have to believe that eggs and milk are still being used - it still really has a rich taste to it and, you can really taste the eggs not only in the "taste" but in the texture of the crust/dough as well. If they're hoping to get away from using eggs/milk they've done a good job hiding that in their actual product!

The past few times I have made it, I've used a very simply method for my oven. I heat the oven to 450 (no pizza stone or anything) and position a rack at the very bottom. I try to let it preheat as long as I can wait (I still proof in the oven, so I'm stuck waiting to turn the oven on until I'm done proofing) so the heat doesn't all escape with one open of the door. I also wait until the coil is "on" and red hot before I put the 'za in so that it gets a nice blast of heat right away. I bake it for 7 min, longer if I feel it needs it - but generally no more than 8 minutes. It gets a rest for a couple minutes and then sliced and diced!

This has turned out a pretty consistent pizza. The "doneness" is pretty much right on. I'm getting a nicely-colored bottom, and am also getting that very small layer of "chewy" as well. The only real element I'm missing is the edges - I'm having a tough time getting nicely charred "crispy" edges that everyone loves.

What you have been able to accomplish with the clone dough formulation is actually quite remarkable when you think about it. The original list of ingredients included 16 different items (winnowed down to about nine) in what is apparently a commissary-type dough intended to be used with specialized equipment. So, being able to come close in a home setting must be very satisfying to you. I think with time you will iron out the remaining wrinkles. Maybe you will even get lucky and find out who is sourcing Donatos' pepperoni. It's possible that you may even be able to make a better pizza than what you will get at Donatos. Most people don't realize this but commissary-type doughs are specially adapted so that they can make it to the stores intact until used to make pizzas. There are far more variables and potential problem areas than we experience in a home setting. I'm certain that the Donatos dough formulation would be different if it were intended for a home setting. It would be designed differently and with simpler dough management procedures.

Maybe when you perfect the Donatos dough clone formulation you can write up the entire procedure, so that others can use that rather than having to read the entire thread to piece everything together. As you know, there were a lot of twists and turns and a lot of speculation and some dead ends to get this far.

Well I dont know much about breads/doughs, thats why I bought a bread machine . Can I ask what is it that you do after the dough rests for 30 or so hours? Meaning, what temp do you cook yer pizza at and what do you do in between(that so called "proofing").

Btw I didnt read anywhere that to do it at 425 for any length of time, I just normally do this with my pizza dough, guess this could be why mine arent turning out exactly how I want them...

Hi, I am going to try the waz recipe. I live in Columbus and worked for my brother at "The Pizza Shop" here for many years. Made it all. He and my other brothers worked for Grote when he started on Thurman Ave. in Columbus in the 60's. Another brother has a shop too here but the one I worked at is gone since he is now in politics. Someday I will get my 614pizza site going since it is supposed to be the pizza capital with most shops per capita.

Anyway, I remember some things and I know the dough I made was similar since thats where my brother learned it. It was not the same though. Eggs....dry milk...yeast..flour...oil...water. I cant remember more now but it all went in a big mixer and then after a few hours in went in a big plastic trash can. It would rise and you punch it down a few times and it was ready. Rolled on a 2 step roller, put the pan upside down on the dough, cut the dough, flip pan, put on cornmeal, flip dough. Go put on sauce, etc.

oh....Winchester Farms Sausage with hot pepper "bird seed" was the same. We put more hot in it.

But....now that I think about it maybe you are now talking about MacDonatos. Someday I will write to Grote. It has changed so much. The original sub bun is gone too. That is a story in itself. That was the best.

Can't eat the current pizza without heartburn. But I can eat other shops. Now its a disc made somewhere else brought to the shop put in a mchine to rejuvenate it. Like a space cracker.

So there is "original" and "MacDonatos"which are you going for? Maybe some of the things I remember help.Joe

I havent been checking your post for awhile. But I see you are hard at.

WAZ I went back through some threads and saw in the earlier threads your pics and they seemed to have too much rise. So my question to you and PETE are about the amount of yeast is too small that it isnt effective in a recipe?

And your sauce looks a litter thicker that the donatos.Dont you think?

Now I see what you are saying about the yeast. I was originally going to reply that 0.5% IDY was not a small amount. Since the yeast is the smallest ingredient percentage-wise on the Donatos ingredient list, it is possible that it could be reduced. Whether that will result in a smaller rise is not entirely clear, since it will depend on the total fermentation time, the temperatures involved, and the effects of the "proofing" process. But the point you make is a valid one nonetheless and if Waz agrees with your assessment of his crust, he might want to try a dough batch using less yeast. Maybe 0.25% IDY. I have never had a Donatos pizza, so I am relying on the photos of the Donatos pizzas and Waz's and your powers of observation based on your intimacy with the Donatos pizzas.

I have noticed that when I reduce my yeast in the proofing time overnight I have noticed in some batches I Have made, I will get little black spots. They are very tiny and not covered but like pepper has been sprinkled on the dough balls.

This post might help: http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/tt/index.cgi?noframes;read=27056. From what I have read elsewhere, the agglomeration of the yeast particles, if that is what you are experiencing, is often due to improper use of the yeast (e.g., ADY or IDY). If this is a general question, as opposed to one related to a Donatos type dough, you might want to open a new thread to allow others to respond and get a broader range of answers.

Hi all - wow, I've missed some good stuff! I hadn't gotten any "reply notification" emails, so sorry I've been out for a bit.

Marty - what kind of pepperoni are you using? That stuff looks great! It certainly passes the 'look' test for Donatos pepperoni. As of right now I think that's going to be my biggest challenge.

It's awesome that we got some more people trying this out! I've made a few clones since my last post, but the last two time my camera was dead and I didn't realize it.

Overall, I've gotten it down relatively well - less skin sticking and better dough management. The biggest crust challenge for me has been even browning on the bottom and getting those nice crispy almost-burnt edges.

I'll have to do another here soon and post again. Thanks for everyones help! ~Waz

Hey there Marty! Good to hear from you! Would you mind terribly if I asked what kind of pepperoni you're using? I can completely understand if that's a shop secret that you can't really divulge, but finding pepperoni that's even remotely close to Donatos/Mid-west style pizza is super hard!! haha

Currently I'm taking my skins and once I get them all rolled out I oil it, dust it with corn meal, and flip it onto the disc. I then put another disc on top and use that as a guide for cutting it out and then I stick the disc in the oven along with a big 6-cup pyrex bowl full of ~200 degree water to proof for 30 minutes. This seems to be a crucial step from Pete's deductions. Once I get it out, should I let it then completely dry on the counter top? Do you proof with high humidity at all, or do you just let your skins dry out on the counter top?~Waz