tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post3922612914831419619..comments2016-11-30T20:44:36.586-07:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Perjury, Libel, and DesecrationAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-23284994154350433462008-08-07T04:51:00.000-06:002008-08-07T04:51:00.000-06:00SheldonYour statement is true.Just as you can avoi...<B>Sheldon</B><BR/><BR/>Your statement is true.<BR/><BR/>Just as you can avoid the violence of the robber who puts a gun to your head and demands, "Your money or your life" by giving him your wallet, or the Jew can avoid the Nazi death camps by hiding in an attic for 5 years.Alonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-51593401806269050252008-08-06T23:22:00.000-06:002008-08-06T23:22:00.000-06:00While I agree that being taken to court for perjur...While I agree that being taken to court for perjury and libel can be considered "a form of violence", I think it better to say that it is coercive. Which means to say that there is either an explicit or implicit threat of actual physical violence. It is better because it says recognizes the qualitative steps between the two. You suffer the form of violence in the threat, but you still have the chance of avoiding the physical pain and injury.Sheldonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-37292779073677224222008-08-06T22:18:00.000-06:002008-08-06T22:18:00.000-06:00I stand corrected.I stand corrected.Emu Samhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05352556221263050952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-36140467775326343082008-08-06T15:26:00.000-06:002008-08-06T15:26:00.000-06:00Emu SamActually, my point is that trial verdicts a...<B>Emu Sam</B><BR/><BR/>Actually, my point is that trial verdicts are backed by people with guns who will use them unless you obey. It's the guys with the guns that get people to hand over the money or to go to jail or otherwise do what the court decides they should do.<BR/><BR/>This applies to civil courts as well as criminal courts. If the court decides that you owe somebody $100,000, and you refuse to pay it, you have to deal with they guys with the guns.<BR/><BR/>A private lawsuit is violence - an act of going up to the guys with the guns and trying to convince them to use those guns on your opponent to force him to behave in particular ways.Alonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-76661008897155866572008-08-06T14:48:00.000-06:002008-08-06T14:48:00.000-06:00Anonymous may be thinking of an argument that laws...Anonymous may be thinking of an argument that lawsuits are not violence - that violence requires physical harm instead of social or monetary harm or incarceration, or other effects of being found in the wrong by the legal system.<BR/><BR/>Alonzo's point is, I believe, that when the government takes you to task in the legal system, this is a form of violence because the government is much more powerful than an individual or most groups. A private lawsuit is not violence because both parties are equal, so it is more along the lines of settling an argument <I>without</I> violence.Emu Samhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05352556221263050952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-15818201391480191962008-08-06T06:14:00.000-06:002008-08-06T06:14:00.000-06:00anonymousDid you not read?They stated that desecra...<B>anonymous</B><BR/><BR/>Did you not read?<BR/><BR/>They stated that desecration should be treated like perjury and libel. In other words, they are arguing that people who commit desecration should be subject to state (government) violence the same way that those who commit perjury and libel are to be subject to state violence.Alonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-60900948735042490712008-08-06T05:38:00.000-06:002008-08-06T05:38:00.000-06:00"However, the Confraternity is asserting that the ..."However, the Confraternity is asserting that the use of violence against its critics is perfectly legitimate."<BR/><BR/>Whoa. They are? Could you point out that statement or statements?<BR/><BR/>MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-68382466325937647872008-08-05T22:56:00.000-06:002008-08-05T22:56:00.000-06:00I could not have made this argument any better mys...I could not have made this argument any better myself.<BR/><BR/>Well analyzed and well stated. I truly enjoy your blog.<BR/><BR/>The advocation of violence by the church against atheists is nothing new, though. If the church had it's way, I would burn for heresy.<BR/><BR/>-QQuestioneverythinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08430014371429331548noreply@blogger.com