We are very disappointed to belong to ArkGeocaching.org. We have noticed there is a clichť and some members get more preferential treatment than others. Only a few are acknowledged and encouragement is given to selective few. Some members when they get 100, 200, 300 and 500 caches ( congratulations to this cachers) they get acknowledged and some donít. Arparkguy was trying to do some good and went to a lot of trouble putting up A CITO and did not get much support, but he sure got picked on and criticized by members. It would have been nicer instead to offer support for the CITO program. It take a lot of work to organize one. Keep up the good work even if you donít get a lot of support. Cacher that are picking on others have not done any good for the club or Geocaching, the only thing they accomplish is showing off their loud mouth. Some are raking in caches for numbers and competition to look good, we wonder how many of these caches have they done unassisted and how many caches were they got help (when you are guided by another cacher or called 5 people to tell you outright were it is)???? We have found out by accident that some caches are logged on the cache page but when we sign the log we did not find their name in the log book. Some cachers get hints and tips and other donítí get any response. Some cache box owner are not checking the logs or doing any maintenance to make sure they got the right loggers or say anything about it if they donĎt sign the log book. This sound very fishy . We where enjoying a good old fashion geocaching and still do, but after joining the club it turns out to be lot of friction and competition and not as enjoyable as before. We could go on and on, but it is very disappointed how some members are treated. Maybe we do understand, we donít belong to the clichť. Sorry if we insulted some members, but this is how it is. We are going back to old fashion caching and not paying attention to other cachers .We are supporting geocaching programs that will do some good for the organization not one that criticize members that are trying to do good and show such bias to others. Every time we visit this sight we are upset and it is not worth it.

07-02-2005, 03:11 PM

BACKPACKNJACK

I feel Most will not respond to your thread, disassociating themselves from any hint of displeasure and most will just lurk and not even sign-in until it has played out, but I (voice of one) like to hear what other people think about things. You are going to get jumped on and slashed by the more aggressive but you knew that when you posted.
If you and I donít agree, are diametrically apposed to something but we agree to meet in the middle, we most likely have chosen the best path. If only the most aggressive persons ideals are considered or even heard then it could be the best path but only about a 33% chance of that (I could explain this number but typing with a messed up finger). Forums work because even the most shy can be heard. I didnít agree with the posting of DK/aka/BKnight about Arkparkguy but I did agree about this being an open forum (mostly, that is) and didnít agree with the locking of APGuy's thread. I donít know who did the locking but if this was my site I would have let the other members post their feelings about APGuy. I think he also may have enjoyed seeing those feelings in print.

I have been jumped on here more then once and no one was banished or censured because of it and Iím actually glad. I would rather see it in public then to feel it in the back. I have always said/agreed/preached inclusion not exclusion. If there are others who think apposing post should be locked/banned because it makes us look negative then you havenít been to the GC forum or Ebay or almost any other forums be they moderated or not. I am just one voice but I hope you stick around long enough to see how others feel.

Those reading may remember I too was going to leave and actually did but came back and decided to not only continue to contribute my 2 cents worth (to agree or disagree) but to actually contribute $$ to the support of the site. I hope you agree with my right to disagree with you and say this site gets better all the time (go read the GC forum). One person does not make a good site and one person does not make a bad site although I do agree some people should be banned/censured after a certain amount of flamming and I believe the whole committee should have to agree for this to be done and a warning should come first. (disagreement vs flamming)
Now to voice my opinions about your other opinions.
I agree that some people are treated better then others. Even families are that way but I hope you never find fault with the way I treat you.
I agree that some people like big numbers. I donít care and have already tried to explain what draws me to a cache, in other post.
I agree that some people get help finding caches. If you ask me for help finding my caches you will get the same answer as everyone else (except for my sister and her husband, who only got encouragement and a top-down ride).
I didnít know some people log but didnít actually find the cache. That would be the responsibility of the cache owner and I check my caches all the time to see if the cords work, if they were covered up by the last person to find them, if they need loot, if the pencil is sharp, to read the logs, etc.

07-02-2005, 07:32 PM

Gaddiel

twooldcrows, I really appreciate your being a part of ArkGeo, and I hate to see it when anyone is upset. Let me just say this much: Please don't let the actions of the few skew your perception of the group as a whole.

No matter where you go, there will be a very small minority that will cause some friction, and it's no different around here. I've found that most things can be worked through, and those things that can't be worked through, can usually be disussed in an adult fashion. If it still can't be worked out, I usually just agree to disagree.

To be honest, I'm surprised by the helpfulness and enthusiasm of our members. I've seen much worse in other circles. If you don't believe it, just spend some time on the Groundspeak forums (man, it gets rough in there sometimes...)

Finally, I hope that your disappointment was in no way caused by anything I've said. If it was, please PM me and let's talk.

Wayne

07-03-2005, 08:18 PM

rock_hound

Quote:

We have noticed there is a clichť and some members get more preferential treatment than others.

Have not seen this happen. Maybe, I have not been close enough attention.

Quote:

Arparkguy was trying to do some good and went to a lot of trouble putting up A CITO and did not get much support, but he sure got picked on and criticized by members.

Arparkguy is not going to get as many people at CITO events because of the location. It's quite a drive to Withrow Springs.

Quote:

Cacher that are picking on others have not done any good for the club or Geocaching, the only thing they accomplish is showing off their loud mouth.

Agreed!!!! If you don't have anything good to say....Don't say anything.

Quote:

We have found out by accident that some caches are logged on the cache page but when we sign the log we did not find their name in the log book.

What would be the point of logging caches you don't find. There is no award for having found the most caches. This could happen if the log sheet was replaced. It frustrates me more to see people logging two finds on the same cache or people logging finds on caches that they own.

Quote:

Every time we visit this sight we are upset and it is not worth it.

It is only text and graphics. Don't take it so seriously.

07-04-2005, 03:49 PM

LadyEngineer

Please take everything I say as very sincere and from a person that has been totally taken off guard by this post.

Quote:

We are very disappointed to belong to ArkGeocaching.org

.

I'm very sorry to learn this.

Quote:

We have noticed there is a clichť and some members get more preferential treatment than others. Only a few are acknowledged and encouragement is given to selective few. Some members when they get 100, 200, 300 and 500 caches ( congratulations to this cachers) they get acknowledged and some donít.

I guess I'm just blind because I don't see a clichť. Not being funny here, if I'm a member of it in your mind I don't know it.

Quote:

Arparkguy was trying to do some good and went to a lot of trouble putting up A CITO and did not get much support, but he sure got picked on and criticized by members. It would have been nicer instead to offer support for the CITO program. It take a lot of work to organize one. Keep up the good work even if you donít get a lot of support. Cacher that are picking on others have not done any good for the club or Geocaching, the only thing they accomplish is showing off their loud mouth.

Craig got really bad press from one member on this site but a lot of great words from many others. When he posted that he was leaving more posted wishing him well or wishing he would stay or come back quickly then there were critics of him. I was extremely surprise that the thread about him coming back was locked. I don't know who did it but I think it was unnecessary because people where speaking out against the flamer and for Craig. It's very hard to put an event of any kind together and he did work hard on it. For us, his CITO on National CITO day was too far for us and the second one he did wasn't convenient day. That could have been the same for others.

Quote:

Some are raking in caches for numbers and competition to look good, we wonder how many of these caches have they done unassisted and how many caches were they got help (when you are guided by another cacher or called 5 people to tell you outright were it is)???? We have found out by accident that some caches are logged on the cache page but when we sign the log we did not find their name in the log book. Some cachers get hints and tips and other donítí get any response. Some cache box owner are not checking the logs or doing any maintenance to make sure they got the right loggers or say anything about it if they donĎt sign the log book. This sound very fishy . We where enjoying a good old fashion geocaching and still do, but after joining the club it turns out to be lot of friction and competition and not as enjoyable as before.

I'm not sure how being a member of Arkansas Geocaching Association has anything to do with caching cheaters. If there are people out there doing this, then this (in my opinion) is something that GC needs to be aware of. It goes against their rules about caching and I've never heard of anyone I've met through ArkGC encouraging or promoting this type of behavior. I can only speak for my family here, but we only call a friend if we are completely stumped and have driven a great distance to hunt the cache. We had three DNF's this weekend and I really wished we had a number for someone that had found it before us because one of them was after a 20 minute hike in. If you haven't ever experienced a DNF after a 20 minute hike in 90 degree weather and searching for 30 to 45 minutes with a 7 and 5 year old and you still have to make the return hike, then you'll can't understand why sometimes you must have a little help. I'm just speaking for us here. We only log when we have actually touched and signed the cache, period. We didn't touch and sign, we didn't find it.

Quote:

We could go on and on, but it is very disappointed how some members are treated. Maybe we do understand, we donít belong to the clichť. Sorry if we insulted some members, but this is how it is. We are going back to old fashion caching and not paying attention to other cachers .We are supporting geocaching programs that will do some good for the organization not one that criticize members that are trying to do good and show such bias to others. Every time we visit this sight we are upset and it is not worth it.

I'm completely disappointed that you feel this way. I've met you guys, I believe twice, and thought you both were very nice. There are a great many people that cache in Arkansas that would go out of there way to help cacher, beginner or expert, and I feel very bad that you are lumping all members of this site into a group of bad apples.

To follow suit of Gaddiel, if anything I have done has made you feel this way please pm me or call me. I'm always open to talking to anyone. I don't like for ANYONE to be upset.

I would have to agree with some if not all of what twooldcrows has said.
As a matter of fact I have made note of a couple of the issues

I have seen first hand of geocachers logging finds on the website, but when I find the cache there are all kinds of people who logged the cache both online and off during the time that these people logged it, so that leads me to believe they are/were trying to jack their find count. There was no new log that had been replaced or anything like that.

Unless you have driven at least a couple of hours to find a cache, and are having no luck I see no reason to call 15 people until one of them tells you where the cache is, what fun is that?? Now if someone is passing through town and is looking for a cache and happens to have a phone number, that is different, but one local cacher asking for help when it is in your own backyard, come on. Just look a little harder next time.

As for special treatment to some cachers, I think that is a given. They know who they are, I don't worry about that I just do my thing and go on. Just because I am a few THOUSAND behind, I don't consider it a competition, so in that case I am not behind anyone. I cache when I want to, and where I want to. I used to think numbers were important, the more I cache however the more I realize numbers don't mean anything.

I would also agree, some cachers on this site will just let this thread pass, or who knows it may get locked down like the ARParkguy thread that I was commenting on.

As for the CITO that ArkParkguy had planned, as Rock_hound said it is a LONG way to Withrow Springs.

As for you BackPackNJack, I am sure if it came right down to it there are things we would both agree on, but there are also things we would disagree on. So as you said on some issues we can agree to disagree.

Dark Knight
or Black Knight whichever you prefer

07-05-2005, 06:59 PM

thenaturenurd

Agree to disagree

I agree with alot of twooldcrows comments...not all but most of them.

I know alot of this is not intentional but some I believe is.

Unfortunately alot of it is human nature.

Thats all I have to say about that. :D

Craig

07-05-2005, 09:14 PM

Geezer_Veazey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Knight

... I don't worry about that I just do my thing and go on.

So what's your problem???

07-05-2005, 09:49 PM

Geezer_Veazey

Re: Liar, liar pants on fire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twooldcrows

We are very disappointed to belong to ArkGeocaching.org. We have noticed there is a clichť and some members get more preferential treatment than others.........Some members when they get 100, 200, 300 and 500 caches ( congratulations to this cachers) they get acknowledged and some donít..............he sure got picked on and criticized by members...........Some are raking in caches for numbers and competition to look good...............We have found out by accident that some caches are logged on the cache page but when we sign the log we did not find their name in the log book............... Some cachers get hints and tips and other donítí get any response................ Some cache box owner are not checking the logs or doing any maintenance to make sure they got the right loggers or say anything about it if they donĎt sign the log book.

Shame on you, members of Arkansas Geocaching Association. Shame, shame, shame. Why can't you do right, like all the other geocachers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twooldcrows

We are going back to old fashion caching and not paying attention to other cachers .We are supporting geocaching programs that will do some good for the organization not one that criticize members that are trying to do good and show such bias to others. Every time we visit this sight we are upset and it is not worth it.

Looks like you've found a solution. No point in doing something you know is going to upset you.

07-06-2005, 07:08 AM

Black Knight

[quote=Geezer_Veazey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Black Knight":27rbjpo0

... I don't worry about that I just do my thing and go on.

So what's your problem???[/quote:27rbjpo0]
Do You want the whole list or just the top 10..........
Let's see some people tell me I was dropped one too many times as a kid, does that qualify as a problem.

You need to chill dude, twooldcrows might have been talking about you, ya never know (not saying they were, or trying to put words into their mouths)

Besides, As I said most if not all of what twooldcrows said makes perfect sense, and I agree with most if not all of their comments, 100%