Blame goes all around for the Iraq war. Especially the politicians who lied about Iraq's WMDs and used them as the reason for the war.

Even the citizenry such as myself gets some blame for simply allowing it to happen and then doing nothing after the dust settled and everyone knew the
war to be based upon a stack of lies. Indirect blame anyway.

However the soldier deserves to be blamed almost as much as the politician. They were directly responsible for the tragedy that took place.

I am simply saying that by claiming that you have brain trauma and the PTSD seems like a way for you go leech more money from the government. Not
posting on ATS....way to deflect though, good job.

Furthermore, for someone with so many issues, it sure doesnt seem to affect your ability to post on here and use all the cool features this site has
to offer.

Enjoy the attention, and good luck on getting a bigger chunk of my paycheck.

Btw...im currently US military, and served two tours in Iraq.

I am not claiming anything. I have plenty of medical records to support what I have told here. I already recieve disability compensation so I don't
understand why you think I am trying to leech money of the government.Sure it doesn't pay much, but when I need money I go out and make money. I
think you have the idea that I am one who just sit's around wanting someone elso to take care of me and cries for attention. You don't know me so
that's fine if that's what you wish to believe.

And yes my issues do affect my ability here. You should see the dislexic nature of my writing before I spell check it. It took me quite a while to
learn this site as it does most who use it who are not computer geeks (no offense meant).
I am not looking for attention either, just needed to get some things of my chest and I have done so. If you are current military and have done two
tours then you of all people should know what we go through. I don't know what service you are in or what your MOS is but I will not presume to know
anything about you. I hope that if and when you get out and come home that you don't struggle with simalar issues. I hope the transition is nice and
smooth for you. I wish you nothing but the best and 'stay frosty'

Haven't read the entire post so sorry if this was already mentioned, but have you talked to the AW2 guys? I too am in michigan and I gave up on the
VA after my fouth visit (SW was still talking to me about substance abuse and psych just doubled my meds every week). The AW2 guys call me about once
a month and check on me, they help with work, appointments, and any other issues I have.

Fallujah was hell and it will always be a part of those who were there. Thanks for taking your time to help other vets. It will get better bro, keep
moving forward.

I go to the Detroit VA, but my AW2 rep is in Saginaw. Drop me a message and I will give you his number. If nothing else he may be able to get you in
contact with the right people.

Blame goes all around for the Iraq war. Especially the politicians who lied about Iraq's WMDs and used them as the reason for the war.

Even the citizenry such as myself gets some blame for simply allowing it to happen and then doing nothing after the dust settled and everyone knew the
war to be based upon a stack of lies. Indirect blame anyway.

However the soldier deserves to be blamed almost as much as the politician. They were directly responsible for the tragedy that took place.

edit on 6-5-2012 by Frith because: (no reason given)

I'm partial agree with you.
If soldier believes to protect the country from a real enemy, there's nothing of wrong with it.

But if your government lied about the war, it's not their fault. (Obviously the war is never good)

I am simply saying that by claiming that you have brain trauma and the PTSD seems like a way for you go leech more money from the government. Not
posting on ATS....way to deflect though, good job.

Furthermore, for someone with so many issues, it sure doesnt seem to affect your ability to post on here and use all the cool features this site has
to offer.

Enjoy the attention, and good luck on getting a bigger chunk of my paycheck.

Btw...im currently US military, and served two tours in Iraq.

I am not claiming anything. I have plenty of medical records to support what I have told here. I already recieve disability compensation so I don't
understand why you think I am trying to leech money of the government.Sure it doesn't pay much, but when I need money I go out and make money. I think
you have the idea that I am one who just sit's around wanting someone elso to take care of me and cries for attention. You don't know me so that's
fine if that's what you wish to believe.

And yes my issues do affect my ability here. You should see the dislexic nature of my writing before I spell check it. It took me quite a while to
learn this site as it does most who use it who are not computer geeks (no offense meant).
I am not looking for attention either, just needed to get some things of my chest and I have done so. If you are current military and have done two
tours then you of all people should know what we go through. I don't know what service you are in or what your MOS is but I will not presume to know
anything about you. I hope that if and when you get out and come home that you don't struggle with simalar issues. I hope the transition is nice and
smooth for you. I wish you nothing but the best and 'stay frosty'

Yeah, that's a right answer.

Originally posted by 200Plus
Haven't read the entire post so sorry if this was already mentioned, but have you talked to the AW2 guys? I too am in michigan and I gave up on the VA
after my fouth visit (SW was still talking to me about substance abuse and psych just doubled my meds every week). The AW2 guys call me about once a
month and check on me, they help with work, appointments, and any other issues I have.

Fallujah was hell and it will always be a part of those who were there. Thanks for taking your time to help other vets. It will get better bro, keep
moving forward.

I go to the Detroit VA, but my AW2 rep is in Saginaw. Drop me a message and I will give you his number. If nothing else he may be able to get you in
contact with the right people.

It's crap that this is happening to you and ongoing, but tbh i think (know) alot of Iraqi's suffered a LOT more from the war there (and still are).
Think of me whatever you want.. But i don't think you see the hypocriscy of your own post yourself.

I thought people who are antiwar would be more compassionate than what this and other posts have shown.
Once out of uniform they are people the same as you and I.

For the OP his service might be over but the war is still raging. Don't forget he is victim too.

How is he a victim?

It's not like he got drafted.

And i'm compasionate with Iraqi's, not the people who murdered, tortured and raped them (not saying that he did these things, apart from the "job
related" murder ofc)

Maybe it is the way you phrase your responses, combined with the acutal "thank you for all you do" replies in this thread, but I think on some
level, it is attention you crave. I am glad that you can get some things off your chest through this site. That seems therapudic (spelling) and all
but I guess I just dont get the whole PTSD thing, or the tramautic brain injury stuff. Correct me if I am wrong, but one of your issues is you are
being turned away by doctors when you "claim" you have this stuff?

The attention part is this, I see all these ex military and active military folks posting on this site each day, mentioning thier service and they
get swamped with "we love you and thank you for your service" support the troops posts that it just irritates the crap out of me.

For one thing, these people posting (non-military) have absolutely no idea of what it means to be in the military and what we do..... None at all.
They SAY that they support us, but do they really? Or do they just say that to "look good" to the other posters or to affirm thier own wierd
dillusion that they somehow support the military....

I went into a store once, that had "WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" sign out front. When I went to check out, i said to the cashier...."do you have a
military discount?" Her answer was no. I said "then why do you have that big sign up outside then? How do you support troops?" Silence was her
response.

Typical if you ask me of the average american, and I cant really blame them. Hell I dont really know how anything we have done over the past 10 years
has helped anyone... Deterance? Maybe....but who are we fending off? You and I both know that the VERY FEW countries with the will or capability to
attack us, would never do so because we are a cash cow for them.

People these days embrace ideals for no other reason than to have some way to define themselves.... They dont really even think about what or why
they defend or believe or support things, they just do it because they want to fit in....

I joined the volunteer USMC in 1978. Any person who joins the military should expect war after all that is their business. Soliders are programmed to
embrace combat and many don't think about what "combat" really means and the horror of it. I admit that when I got out in 1981 that I felt like I
had missed the "show" to use a parable of a minor league baseball player who never makes it the majors. I was in an 81 mortar platoon stationed at
Camp Lejune. The 1st batallion, 6th Marines we were on "hostage rescue" maneuvers at the time they tried to rescue the hostages in Iran during the
Iran hostage crisis. However, I did see the Mariel Boatlift which was another experience all together.

I'm sorry your going through rough times too. Sounds like you might have been dealt a bad hand. U2U me if you ever need to talk about it.

Thank you man. My life can never be "easy" ever again. I consider myself very lucky, and truly believe some higher power kept me on this earth, and so
far all I've done in return is drink my brains out. "do you want to die and start over?" "No," I said. And I was out...

Not sure if you noticed my conflicting sentences.

"U2 me if you want."
"I'm not the person to talk to."

I keep typing and erasing. I don't think I can say this in letters even in a pm. It's just too solid. I think you know what I mean.

Reading through this thread makes me feel much better about it though.
And to smily girl: I did cry, and you are right I do feel better.
I was never taught to hide my emotions, thanks mom...

I want to, but I probably really shouldn't. I have a lot to say to my fellow humans, but I don't want to go through any more anything ever... I think
I'll leave the past alone. Don't be surprised if I do PM you though, could happen.

Originally posted by theitalian
In this thread we are (also) talking about the blame of Iraq War and American soldiers who have "signed" for it.

But the Congress? Your President? They are not the real guilty? They have lied to all mankind.
Why blame (only?) the soldiers? Who send them in Iraq?

I think you Americans should first protect yourself from your enemies closer: your corrupt politicians, banks, lobbies, and only God knows what
else.

I like Michael Douglas in "Wall Street" (1987): "Now, you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you, buddy?
It's the free market."

Maybe it is the way you phrase your responses, combined with the acutal "thank you for all you do" replies in this thread, but I think on some level,
it is attention you crave. I am glad that you can get some things off your chest through this site. That seems therapudic (spelling) and all but I
guess I just dont get the whole PTSD thing, or the tramautic brain injury stuff. Correct me if I am wrong, but one of your issues is you are being
turned away by doctors when you "claim" you have this stuff?

The attention part is this, I see all these ex military and active military folks posting on this site each day, mentioning thier service and they
get swamped with "we love you and thank you for your service" support the troops posts that it just irritates the crap out of me.

For one thing, these people posting (non-military) have absolutely no idea of what it means to be in the military and what we do..... None at all.
They SAY that they support us, but do they really? Or do they just say that to "look good" to the other posters or to affirm thier own wierd
dillusion that they somehow support the military....

I went into a store once, that had "WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" sign out front. When I went to check out, i said to the cashier...."do you have a military
discount?" Her answer was no. I said "then why do you have that big sign up outside then? How do you support troops?" Silence was her response.

Typical if you ask me of the average american, and I cant really blame them. Hell I dont really know how anything we have done over the past 10 years
has helped anyone... Deterance? Maybe....but who are we fending off? You and I both know that the VERY FEW countries with the will or capability to
attack us, would never do so because we are a cash cow for them.

People these days embrace ideals for no other reason than to have some way to define themselves.... They dont really even think about what or why
they defend or believe or support things, they just do it because they want to fit in....

Anyway, sorry if I offended you in anyway.

Be good.

great post about how "shallow" our society has become. Today we live in "lip service America".

I would defend the OP about the VA Hospital and doctors. One friend of mine was an Army Ranger in Vietnam and he was trying to get VA benefits for his
who children were born with birth defects common to Agent Orange exposure. He claimed that he was sprayed in the A Shau Valley yet the VA claimed
there is no evidence. However if you go online A Shau Valley and Agent Orange you get many results where AO was used often. Yet, they still don't
admit it....

The word "Vet" is being tossed around too loosely nowadays... Its funny watching people under 30 tryin to celebrate veterans day like they
actually did something.... Put these same kids in ww2 or vietnam they would sh*t bricks and cry...

I'm not a veteran, I graduated high school early in 2000 [originally class of 2002] and was thinking about joining the Marines. Many of my friends
had joined and yes I was very pissed about 911. I decided to finish college and eventually hurt my back, so there was/is no chance I could ever join,
even as a chaplain [got my bachelor in theology and psychology, looking into grad school for religious studies].
I feel for you. I have friends and family that have PTSD and other problems, my 22yr old cousin just got out and tried to kill himself...

Part of the problem is that this war has been going on for over 10 years, and us civilians have forgotten about it...it's barely in the news or fresh
in our minds...we've almost forgotten 911...and yes I think the mainstream media looks down on veterans...especially the liberal media.

It's tough for me to imagine veterans from say WWII, that fought hard and came home to no such thing as PTSD counseling and were probably looked down
upon for talking about such problems...but they came home to economic prosperity and expansion. You boys came home to an economic depression and no
jobs, and I am sorry. If you can I'd say try to get into law enforcement, they seem to be full of veterans, but if not, and you enjoy volunteering at
the VA, perhaps you could try to get education as a therapist or nurse or something...I think doing something good for others will actually help a
little bit at putting your mind at ease...

There are many people feeling just as you, and many others [like me] who care about veterans...there is hope

The US may have been bombing them but how many other times had they bombed them and other countries without sending troops to invade afterwards. There
was still no garuntee of a ground war is all i'm saying, but you are correct in that they were bombing them.

Originally posted by 200Plus
Haven't read the entire post so sorry if this was already mentioned, but have you talked to the AW2 guys? I too am in michigan and I gave up on the
VA after my fouth visit (SW was still talking to me about substance abuse and psych just doubled my meds every week). The AW2 guys call me about once
a month and check on me, they help with work, appointments, and any other issues I have.

Fallujah was hell and it will always be a part of those who were there. Thanks for taking your time to help other vets. It will get better bro, keep
moving forward.

I go to the Detroit VA, but my AW2 rep is in Saginaw. Drop me a message and I will give you his number. If nothing else he may be able to get you in
contact with the right people.

I honestly don't know what AW2 is but I'm sure google will help me out with that. Thanks for bringing that up.

Originally posted by dayve
The word "Vet" is being tossed around too loosely nowadays... Its funny watching people under 30 tryin to celebrate veterans day like they
actually did something.... Put these same kids in ww2 or vietnam they would sh*t bricks and cry...

Are you a veteran of Vietnam or any other conflict? I am just trying to gain some context on where you are coming from with this statement. Or how you
are basing your last statement in particular.

Originally posted by dayve
The word "Vet" is being tossed around too loosely nowadays... Its funny watching people under 30 tryin to celebrate veterans day like they
actually did something.... Put these same kids in ww2 or vietnam they would sh*t bricks and cry...

Are you a veteran of Vietnam or any other conflict? I am just trying to gain some context on where you are coming from with this statement. Or how you
are basing your last statement in particular.

Im not really basing it in particular... Just comparing. Back in the days going to war wasnt really an option, half the wars fought by hand, and it
was a real war... Nowadays it is an option, plus our military is spoiled as hell, and got it pretty damn good...

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