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Why is Apple not a "good" company?

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Which is the point that myself and a few others have been making - traditional publishers, like traditional record labels, are no longer needed to make and sell books.

True.

But without a publisher, you are really reliant upon word of mouth to get any reach at all with your book.

A book published by me out of my basement, submitted to Kindle, Nook and iBooks and mentioned on the forums has much less of a chance of success as the same book, from a similarly unknown author, that gets published by Harper Collins.

Can we just be clear here on what Agency pricing means. It means that the publishers are setting what shops can sell the book at. This eliminates the ability of shops to compete on price. When Amazon were selling e-books cheap they weren't paying the publishers any less for the books, they were just selling them at a loss. Now if the end result of that was to create a monopoly situation then sure that would be a bad thing, but it's definitely a bad thing when a producer dictates a sellers price. Agency pricing is a not particularly subtle way to get around first-sale doctrine.

Look Amazon are a pretty evil company when it comes to screwing their suppliers but that doesn't prohibit the agency model being pretty evil straight up.

EDIT: Good grief: according to Wikipedia (and thus must be true) first-sale doctrine was established in a case based around selling books.

I'm in possession of a tablet that read all the books in typical formats (Something I fully expect them not to embrace), and I can also do all of my work from my tablet, whether it be MS Office-based work or research. An iPad cannot do everything my tablet can, and I thank the heavens my school found both Google's online apps and the iPad to be insufficiently capable of conducting all of the tasks required by students.

Besides personal preference, college is expensive enough without another $600 barrier to entry. I voluntarily purchased my tablet (which is more expensive than an iPad, fyi) but it's not something other students may be financially capable of, especially when you factor in the cost of books.

There's almost an air of arrogance to them trying to force the iPad as the standard for education, and it makes me more than a little sick just thinking about it.

And, FWIW, iPads start at $500, not $600. I'm not sure why you think you can't do everything on an iPad- Apple's full suite of office products (Pages, Numbers, etc.) are available on the iPad. Besides being more (IMO) intuitive to use and able to output a more professional-looking product, they can easily convert documents into Microsoft-Office compatible files.

I'm in possession of a tablet that read all the books in typical formats (Something I fully expect them not to embrace), and I can also do all of my work from my tablet, whether it be MS Office-based work or research. An iPad cannot do everything my tablet can, and I thank the heavens my school found both Google's online apps and the iPad to be insufficiently capable of conducting all of the tasks required by students.

Besides personal preference, college is expensive enough without another $600 barrier to entry. I voluntarily purchased my tablet (which is more expensive than an iPad, fyi) but it's not something other students may be financially capable of, especially when you factor in the cost of books.

There's almost an air of arrogance to them trying to force the iPad as the standard for education, and it makes me more than a little sick just thinking about it.

Also, the iPad can read all ebooks in all formats. A hell of a lot more formats than your standard, unmidified kindle or nook. And with,the retina display, you can read a full 8.5x11 page without having to zoom and pan, unlike most other tablets and ebook readers.

The iPad does not have the functionality of my device. We can get into a capability war all day, but fact is that I can both browse books AND type a 1500 word essay on my tablet (thanks to the handy-dandy docking station and bluetooth keyboard!). I absolutely do not need any other computing device to complete my studies, whatsoever, whereas the iPad is going to leave me hanging when I need to do some serious Excel or Powerpoint work.

The biggest and most useful thing about my slate is no-hassle wireless printing. This includes getting the document to the printer and how most iApps screw the pooch on Office formatting during printing.

Again, the idea that Apple "taking over" education means, with Apple's past history of software, that the books are likely going to be in a format native to iOS. This is a very bad thing, to me, and all of that aside I can't imagine I'm the only one who abhors the idea of being shackled to a gigantic iPod touch for college.

So you don't know what the iPad is actually capable of, nor do you care to learn, but that's not going to stop you from talking shit about it.

Got it.

I know exactly what it's capable of.

I could use the bevy of Office-like productivity suites, but I don't want to. I want to use MS Office because it's what I'm used to and I know how to eek out the best results with it. Why switch from the best? My university uses it, why shouldn't I? AFAIK, none of the other spreadsheets have the power (including the capability for chemistry work) of Excel, and if it does why should I switch to a potentially less powerful system on weaker hardware (A5 vs i5, no competition) just to appease a corporate sponsorship? Why the hell would I shackle myself to touchscreen operations on Excel and Word when I don't have to? Why have an entire other computing device to produce work from the studies I did on the iPad as well as the iPad when I have something that does both already?

Printing on the iPad is a nightmare, especially to a Windows PC, and the flood of self-help "HOW TO PRINT FROM AN IPAD" articles on the internet (All of them saying the same thing: Your Results May Vary) support that. It looks like you either have to spend money or deal with substandard results, neither of which I have to deal with when I have a solution that gives me the results I want already. The other option is switching completely to Mac hardware and... well, no.

And if by not using a hardware solution because it does not meet my needs is talking shit, then I think someone needs to take a break from mindless brand worship and realize people have different needs. Linux has uses, Windows has uses, and iOS and OSX have uses. Windows just fulfills my needs, and pointing out the iPad doesn't isn't talking shit: It's pointing out that shoehorning the thing into an environment where better solutions exist is fucking ridiculous.

So, it seems that the Republican party almost took a rush at making this anti-trust suit into the next birth control mandate argument... There were several talking heads that stood up and started to argue that Obama was hurting American business by forcing this anti-trust law out; that it's bad policy, etc. etc. It seems to have potentially died down, but I was astounded that the discussion was being had that way. Has anyone else noticed this?

"Well, look at this. Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What's that make us?"
"Big Damn Heroes, Sir."
"Ain't we just."

So you don't know what the iPad is actually capable of, nor do you care to learn, but that's not going to stop you from talking shit about it.

Got it.

I know exactly what it's capable of.

I could use the bevy of Office-like productivity suites, but I don't want to. I want to use MS Office because it's what I'm used to and I know how to eek out the best results with it. Why switch from the best? My university uses it, why shouldn't I? AFAIK, none of the other spreadsheets have the power (including the capability for chemistry work) of Excel, and if it does why should I switch to a potentially less powerful system on weaker hardware (A5 vs i5, no competition) just to appease a corporate sponsorship? Why the hell would I shackle myself to touchscreen operations on Excel and Word when I don't have to? Why have an entire other computing device to produce work from the studies I did on the iPad as well as the iPad when I have something that does both already?

Printing on the iPad is a nightmare, especially to a Windows PC, and the flood of self-help "HOW TO PRINT FROM AN IPAD" articles on the internet (All of them saying the same thing: Your Results May Vary) support that. It looks like you either have to spend money or deal with substandard results, neither of which I have to deal with when I have a solution that gives me the results I want already. The other option is switching completely to Mac hardware and... well, no.

And if by not using a hardware solution because it does not meet my needs is talking shit, then I think someone needs to take a break from mindless brand worship and realize people have different needs. Linux has uses, Windows has uses, and iOS and OSX have uses. Windows just fulfills my needs, and pointing out the iPad doesn't isn't talking shit: It's pointing out that shoehorning the thing into an environment where better solutions exist is fucking ridiculous.

So, yeah, got it?

Now you've moved the goalposts and are making a different argument.

It's true that MS Office isn't on the iPad, and if having access to that specific application is important, maybe an iPad isn't for you. If all you care about are the tech specs, maybe an iPad isn't for you!

However, Apple's full office suite, which is (again, IMO) far superior in both ease of use and product output, is available. You can both export to MS Office compatible files or PDFs. You can also print PDFs directly to compatible wireless printers without having to communicate with another device. My setup works seamlessly; I guess not all do?

I don't have any experience using Numbers for chemistry work, so maybe it's not the best for that? But I do use Numbers heavily for statistical analysis and in combination with Pages and Keynote to seamlessly create professional business documents and presentation. It's a much more elegant combination than Excel + Word + Powerpoint.

See, now that you've fleshed out your argument rather than making a goosey response it's possible to get a sense of what you're talking about and respond appropriately! No need for you to continue to be an abrasive goose about it.

It's not all about tech specs: It's about power. It's about being able to use the full version of Photoshop CS5 if I need to or, hell, want to. If we were talking about the difference between Adreno and A5, then a case could be made that I'm just spec whoring, but a full fledged Intel i5 is different beast for a different task: More traditional CPU power for traditional applications at the expense of battery life (5 hours on the slate with moderate usage). It's about using the digitizer pen to take notes and have the text I wrote down neatly translated into clean, typed text files that I can organize later.

My personal opinion on Numbers is that it's pretty and got some awesome templates, but once you leave Pre-Formed Land and go into the nitty gritty, it simply doesn't have the capabilities of Excel. It's good, but not as easy to use (Less visual cues than Excel), and there's a possibility my 20 year history with Excel may be also tainting my opinion.

The integration of Word + Excel + Powerpoint is practically seamless drag-and-drop. I'm not sure how it could get more elegant.

The iPad isn't really meant to be a full-fledged computer replacement, though, and it's not really fair to compare it to one. The Slate seems like a cool device if you are looking for a sub-laptop Windows-based full computer replacement.

Which is the point that myself and a few others have been making - traditional publishers, like traditional record labels, are no longer needed to make and sell books.

True.

But without a publisher, you are really reliant upon word of mouth to get any reach at all with your book.

A book published by me out of my basement, submitted to Kindle, Nook and iBooks and mentioned on the forums has much less of a chance of success as the same book, from a similarly unknown author, that gets published by Harper Collins.

Define success. Because publishers are just as good as record labels labels at fucking over content producers. I found it hilarious when Scott "The Poor Man's John Grisham" Turow was saying that attacking the publishers hurt midlist authors, when those are the authors that had traditionally been least served by publishers, and the ones seeing success with directly working with Amazon.

The iPad isn't really meant to be a full-fledged computer replacement, though, and it's not really fair to compare it to one. The Slate seems like a cool device if you are looking for a sub-laptop Windows-based full computer replacement.

Well, that's my issue: Apple's push to make the iPad the de-facto educational machine seems to be in spite of the fact that students will need another computer to handle all the tasks required of most university students. I chose something that could theoretically be useless in a near-future classroom setting despite being fully capable to handle all tasks and compatibilites required by 99% of universities, simply because Apple could (likely) make educational textbooks iOS and OSX only.

If Apple is successful in using colleges as a trojan horse for their wares then I can see the University bookstore being a part of the Appstore. I can see the benefits of an electronic library selection, and I can see the benefits of electronic books for class, but what I can't see is how proprietary hardware and a one-size-fits-all methodology would benefit students or higher education, period. The only benefactor would be the pockets of Apple and university admins.

Edit: It seems that the social acceptance of Apple in universities is being used to push a monopolized academic books and supplies system.

The iPad isn't really meant to be a full-fledged computer replacement, though, and it's not really fair to compare it to one. The Slate seems like a cool device if you are looking for a sub-laptop Windows-based full computer replacement.

Well, that's my issue: Apple's push to make the iPad the de-facto educational machine seems to be in spite of the fact that students will need another computer to handle all the tasks required of most university students. I chose something that could theoretically be useless in a near-future classroom setting despite being fully capable to handle all tasks and compatibilites required by 99% of universities, simply because Apple could (likely) make educational textbooks iOS and OSX only.

If Apple is successful in using colleges as a trojan horse for their wares then I can see the University bookstore being a part of the Appstore. I can see the benefits of an electronic library selection, and I can see the benefits of electronic books for class, but what I can't see is how proprietary hardware and a one-size-fits-all methodology would benefit students or higher education, period. The only benefactor would be the pockets of Apple and university admins.

I don't understand why they shouldn't be doing this. MS does this via their college email suite. They will soon be changing their college version to match the professionally hosted version. Soon students at colleges who have their Email system hosted via MS will have access to the MS 360 offering with online versions of Word, Powerpoint, Sharepoint, etc. MS is pretty open that their goal is to get college students using their products now (for free) so they will be used to them and purchase them for work.

I don't understand why they shouldn't be doing this. MS does this via their college email suite. They will soon be changing their college version to match the professionally hosted version. Soon students at colleges who have their Email system hosted via MS will have access to the MS 360 offering with online versions of Word, Powerpoint, Sharepoint, etc. MS is pretty open that their goal is to get college students using their products now (for free) so they will be used to them and purchase them for work.

Microsoft's infiltration into universities was a result of being 90% of the OS marketshare, not the other way around.

The use of MS's software in universities is also used as a support system to academics. Apple is working on being another barrier to academics, i.e. the only way you'll ever be able to get your books ever.

The iPad isn't really meant to be a full-fledged computer replacement, though, and it's not really fair to compare it to one.

Kind of a big deal in academia. I say this as a teaching grad student at a American public university.

So, given that, doesn't that leave one of two things: either Apple is actually being harmful, in actively pursing an area of technology that is not conducive to education (compared to all the alternatives) or Apple isn't harmful, just incompetent, and assuming "Well, we're making it, and it does that thing good, what's the harm?"

Why does it need to be a full-fledged computer replacement? Why is that the only option?

Because if you're dropping an extra $500 on something, just to be able to read your textbooks (Which you are basically guaranteed to still be paying hundreds of dollars each for), it better damn well do something else?

And that naturally overlooks the fact that an iPad can do plenty of other things.

I have yet to meet somebody who buys a tablet, specifically an iPad, and says "meh" after using it for a while.

This particular iteration of the slate (minimal OS with a great deal of expandability via an app marketplace) is something that just works, and you will find places in your life to incorporate one, should you acquire one.

The iPad as textbook replacement argument seems to center around the idea that they would be replacing a textbook in an environment where the textbook purchasing is left up to the discretion of the student. I am more concerned about the iPad textbooks at the lower level educational institutes.

I have yet to meet somebody who buys a tablet, specifically an iPad, and says "meh" after using it for a while.

This particular iteration of the slate (minimal OS with a great deal of expandability via an app marketplace) is something that just works, and you will find places in your life to incorporate one, should you acquire one.

I have met plenty of people whose iPads collect dust. My anecdotal evidence is better than yours.

And by "just works", you forget that for some people it doesn't "just work".

yes wiping your finger all over a slate is cool and all but if you could just have a clipboard replacement that would be great

‮Marty: The future, it's where you're going?Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.

The iPad as textbook replacement argument seems to center around the idea that they would be replacing a textbook in an environment where the textbook purchasing is left up to the discretion of the student. I am more concerned about the iPad textbooks at the lower level educational institutes.

If it proves cost-effective enough, why not move the entire educational system to iTunes?

Seems to be the general idea behind universities picking Google Apps over Office 365.

yes wiping your finger all over a slate is cool and all but if you could just have a clipboard replacement that would be great

I have a stylus for my iPad - while obviously not as good as the real deal (I had a wacom intuos for years and I know what that offers), it lets my annotate my PDFs quite nicely.

That said, I am super glad the interface was designed around finger input and not stylus input. As someone who as been in IT for years and years, and having had to support myriad WinMo and Palm devices in the past... I am glad there is one less piece of tech to go missing that renders the device useless without it (the buttons on WinMo were pathetically small and unusable with a finger).

And that naturally overlooks the fact that an iPad can do plenty of other things.

I have yet to meet somebody who buys a tablet, specifically an iPad, and says "meh" after using it for a while.

This particular iteration of the slate (minimal OS with a great deal of expandability via an app marketplace) is something that just works, and you will find places in your life to incorporate one, should you acquire one.

Me. This is me, regarding pretty much any sort of tablet device.

I've gotten within a hair's breadth of buying an iPad several times now, because NOVELTY!, and, although conflicted immediately after walking away, have been immensely relieved a day or two later that I didn't squander $500. Finally, with about $150 worth of Best Buy Reward Zone gift cards, I broke down and bought a Kindle Fire. It was used extensively for a few weeks for... well, really, for browsing the internet and reading comics in the bathroom. It's also gets pulled out to display recipes while cooking! Other than that, it's gone entirely unused, and I'm happier than ever that I didn't waste that $500 on a impulse novelty buy.

Tablets are probably pretty useful for some people! But since getting one, my day-to-day has not changed in any appreciable way, and if not for the custom Arkham Horror app that my wife is working on and said occasional bathroom usefulness, I would regret buying it.

I agree with dontindent. The iPad is fucking cool as fuck but I don't see how it could replace a laptop which for my purposes is way more useful. If I was in school I can see how the iPad could be an awesome textbook display device but I also understand people wondering what tradeoffs they are making going to a closed system.

I am pretty vehemently anti-Apple in my personal life: using a Mac feels like the computing equivalent of bumper bowling, I think the iPhone is a grossly overpriced mid-range phone, and I'm just generally not their audience.

That said, the iPad is the best tablet out there. Sure you can get pricier ones that do more, but that's a striking reversal from how Apple products are usually positioned in the market. The new one's screen is significantly better than anything else. The app selection is leagues ahead of the fragmented Gingerbread/Honeycomb/ICS ecosystem (though ICS should catch up).

It really is at the top of its category, and with the exception of a few dedicated uses (such as the stylus thing) you can't get a better all-around tablet for the money.

But it's not for me. I built, for $650, a computer that can run Skyrim on the highest settings, flawlessly. I have an Android smartphone (actually two) that I love. Between the two of these, 99% of my daily tech use is taken care of. I have toyed with the idea of buying a laptop (and despite my dislike of Apple the MacBook Air is a compelling choice in its class) but an iPad wouldn't replace it: I'd need a full-time physical keyboard, USB ports, and more software options than the app market provides. Anything an iPad could do for me my phone does just as well and is pocket-portable to boot.

So my biggest complaint about the iPad is that it's not filling a new niche in the marketplace for most people yet it's being treated like it's something revolutionary. And not just in the marketing language, the way your average non-techie person treats it is sort of disconcerting. It seems like a frivolous toy, and the worst thing I can say about the device itself is that if I was to shell out $500 on a toy I'd have other priorities.

the world won't listen to this song
and the radio won't play it
but if you like it sing along
sing 'cause you don't know how to say it

I build presentations, SSH into servers, code, manage my time and submit the quickbooks exports to my accountant, attend virtual meetings, review PDFs, and do all manner of "high level" computing on a device that is instantly on, never requires a reboot, lasts for ten hours on a single charge and is immensely more usable in a wide variety of situations (posting from bed, working on a train/subway, etc).

The kindle fire really is a bad thing to say "I used a fire and it didn't wow me so the iPad won't either) they are two different things. Drastically. And it comes down to the application ecosystem which allows me to do pretty much whatever the hell I want to do with my iPad, from composing music to running multiple books in PDF format across tabs and annotating on them, to managing a medical practice, to playing a game that almost looks Xbox 360 good.

And that naturally overlooks the fact that an iPad can do plenty of other things.

I have yet to meet somebody who buys a tablet, specifically an iPad, and says "meh" after using it for a while.

This particular iteration of the slate (minimal OS with a great deal of expandability via an app marketplace) is something that just works, and you will find places in your life to incorporate one, should you acquire one.

Well now you have. I still use my iPad, but only because it's more convenient than pulling out a laptop in an airplane and because there are a few games that are worth playing that aren't on the Android platform. Originally I'd wanted to replace my laptop, but the iPad can't connect to my work e-mail (neither can Android by default, but there are workarounds on the Android platform), and the only way I can use it comfortably is to Jailbreak it because Apple insists that the main page of my iPad and the docking bar must contain the apps that Apple has decided should be there.

So now I carry around a Laptop and an iPad and use the iPad solely because I've got it and because it's marginally easier to work with on a plane. When I'm ready to replace my laptop I'll replace it with a 12" notebook and ditch the iPad and tablets altogether.

I build presentations, SSH into servers, code, manage my time and submit the quickbooks exports to my accountant, attend virtual meetings, review PDFs, and do all manner of "high level" computing on a device that is instantly on, never requires a reboot, lasts for ten hours on a single charge and is immensely more usable in a wide variety of situations (posting from bed, working on a train/subway, etc).

The kindle fire really is a bad thing to say "I used a fire and it didn't wow me so the iPad won't either) they are two different things. Drastically. And it comes down to the application ecosystem which allows me to do pretty much whatever the hell I want to do with my iPad, from composing music to running multiple books in PDF format across tabs and annotating on them, to managing a medical practice, to playing a game that almost looks Xbox 360 good.

Like I said, tablets can probably be pretty useful things. They just don't have a place in my life. My intent wasn't to say that the Kindle Fire was equivalent to the iPad, but it meets basically every need I could imagine having in a tablet. 75% of my mobile needs are filled by the default applications on any smartphone on the market. Add Facebook, Twitter, the Kindle app and maybe Urbanspoon, and I'm good to go. If I don't use the $200 device that is perfectly capable of satisfying those needs, then I certainly don't see how I'd benefit from a $500 one.

the only way I can use it comfortably is to Jailbreak it because Apple insists that the main page of my iPad and the docking bar must contain the apps that Apple has decided should be there.

Man what? That's completely wrong.

Tap and hold any icon on your screen until they start wiggling, then drag stuff around to your hearts content. Move all the apple stuff you never plan on using into a folder, and drag the folder onto a second or third page. Pull the apps off the dock you don't want to be there and replace them with the ones you want. Hell, even put a folder filled with apps on the dock if you want (I made a media folder and put it on the dock for quick access to all my streaming audio/video apps).

The iPad as textbook replacement argument seems to center around the idea that they would be replacing a textbook in an environment where the textbook purchasing is left up to the discretion of the student. I am more concerned about the iPad textbooks at the lower level educational institutes.

If it proves cost-effective enough, why not move the entire educational system to iTunes?

Seems to be the general idea behind universities picking Google Apps over Office 365.

I just don't think it's there yet. But it's so sexy, the higher-ups can hardly resist.
Talking with an Apple rep on this subject, he explained what would be awesome about deploying Apple textbooks - you hand out iPads and your class downloads the books right there in class. When asked what the average size of textbook was it (naturally) varied quite a bit. The smallest seem to come in at just under 1g. Most seemed to be between 1 and 2, according to this guy. Which is an infrastructural nightmare. Even with a gigantic pipe 25-30 kids downloading that all at once would destroy the network. And that's just one class.
Okay, so we pre-load everything. Which is a management-manpower nightmare. But that only really hurts IT and no one cares.
I'm still not sure it is cost-effective. My understanding is the textbooks have to be renewed yearly. And buying a couple thousand iPads will not replace a single computer in the school. They will still need labs and classroom machines. And what is the life-span of an iPad? What is the life-span of an iPad in the hands of a student?

I will also say that Google Apps seemed to be designed with the idea of managing large numbers from the start. Apple's management solution seems to have been a bit of an after-thought. I get what you are saying with the Google Apps comparison but GA is free (kinda) and runs on pretty much anything. The change is slightly less dramatic for the end users.