Posted
by
timothy
on Saturday June 05, 2010 @01:20PM
from the har-har-har dept.

crimeandpunishment writes "It may only be a temporary glitch, but it's one that's providing some pleasure for Internet users in China. Previously blocked websites, including ones with pornography, are suddenly accessible in China. The country has a long history of cracking down on online pornography. One analyst says it's far more likely that this is a glitch, not a change in Internet censorship policy."

21 years and 2 days ago, China publicly killed about 3000 people for protesting, and sentanced thousands more to lifetime of hard labor, so they're probably dead by now as well. That was probably the daily toll during the Cultural Revolution. How's Denmark compare?

I have a porn site that gets shitloads of traffic from China. Several other porn web masters I know also gets Chinese traffic, so their porn block filter most definitely is not air tight. There is just way to much porn on the internet for a single filter to block it all.

I was there two years ago. Spent time in Taiwan and Hong Kong as well as Shenzhen and Shanghai (the last two being unequivocally mainland China). No problems at all accessing pr0n, I can tell you. But is that because I was at various ritzy hotels where the censorship rules don't apply equally?

Yeah, I noticed this recently. I popped in the name of my favorite porn sample aggregator and it loaded, as did all the sites it linked to. Later, I tried to go to youtube - blocked! It turns out my VPN was off the whole time and I hadn't noticed. These porno sites were all blocked before. I don't believe it's de jure illegal to access porn sites, but it is illegal to host them for sure. Online porn is one of the things that the Chinese mafia does in its IT divisions.

What China needs is to produce its own domestic porn. There is no shortage of women ready and willing to do whatever is required. They have Taiwanese and HK porn but it sucks (ask for "yellow DVD/huang1 de DVD" at your friendly neighborhood DVD shop). To many mainland Chinese, the only context they see white women in is pornos or mainstream media. This distorts their viewpoint of all white women. A couple of my friends get harassed all the time because they have blonde hair and nice chests. Everyone assumes they're prostitutes because they look like the women that the Chinese see in pornos. Come on, how many of you immediately think of "kung fu" (or worse, "karate") when you see a Chinese person? Associations are there and they are real.

There is no shortage of women ready and willing to do whatever is required.

Um, really? When did China get an excess of women? Last I recall there is a significant female/male disparity in China, with there being so few women that most men have little to no hope of ever getting married or having children themselves.

Sigh...you're getting your news from the mainstream media, aren't you? That's one of their favorite stories for some bizarre reason. Actually China has a lot of people. A LOT. No shortage of women. In fact, the problem is precisely the opposite, women are far too picky and insist that a man own property and a car before marriage will even be considered. It's a sort of runaway narcissism due to a combination of One Child Policy and spoiling children. China always had a tradition of large extended fami

Really? The hard numbers say otherwise, putting the balance at 1.06-1.13 male to 1 female depending on which age group you look at.

In fact, the problem is precisely the opposite, women are far too picky and insist that a man own property and a car before marriage will even be considered.

Ehmm, how is that the opposite? It actually disproves what you just said. Since there are fewer women(supply) and relatively more men(demand)...prices go up. Good to know that when it comes to doing the

"No shortage" means that there are 600+ million of them. That's a lot of women. The women being picky has everything to do with culture and nothing to do with "hard numbers". Women simply aren't getting married because there are few men out there who can fulfill their impossible demands. But go ahead and repeat the stuff you saw on TV - it only makes you look more intelligent.

But go ahead and repeat the stuff you saw on TV - it only makes you look more intelligent.

sometimes, the only 'facts' I have are ones given to me by news reporters and anchors on Stations big enough to send reporters to far away lands like china. I simply can't fly to china to get the info first hand, and, sadly, I can't read chinese.

Yeah, I noticed this recently. I popped in the name of my favorite porn sample aggregator and it loaded, as did all the sites it linked to. Later, I tried to go to youtube - blocked! It turns out my VPN was off the whole time and I hadn't noticed. These porno sites were all blocked before. I don't believe it's de jure illegal to access porn sites, but it is illegal to host them for sure. Online porn is one of the things that the Chinese mafia does in its IT divisions.

What China needs is to produce its own domestic porn. There is no shortage of women ready and willing to do whatever is required. They have Taiwanese and HK porn but it sucks (ask for "yellow DVD/huang1 de DVD" at your friendly neighborhood DVD shop). To many mainland Chinese, the only context they see white women in is pornos or mainstream media. This distorts their viewpoint of all white women. A couple of my friends get harassed all the time because they have blonde hair and nice chests. Everyone assumes they're prostitutes because they look like the women that the Chinese see in pornos. Come on, how many of you immediately think of "kung fu" (or worse, "karate") when you see a Chinese person? Associations are there and they are real.

Well, many educated, middle class Asians have a very distorted view of Americans in general. If your only view of America is MTV and few ignorant tourists, you'd think we're all uber-violent jackasses.
Sadly, there are plenty of educated folks in China, India, Korea and Japan who think young African American male in baggy jeans equals 'drug dealer' or 'rapper'.
In college, I had plenty of overseas students from Europe and Asia who were shocked that there were African Americans who read books and didn't c

The Chinese authorities may have finally figured out that porn is and always has been a major driver of advancements in communications technology. Maybe they're letting their people see porn because it's good for business.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the mechanism by which government regulations drive consolidation of corporations into larger and larger entities, and protect them from new competitors. If you imagine that government protects you from corporations, I've got a bridge to sell you.

If you imagine that government protects you from corporations, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Oh, no, I have no illusions about that. It's just that the Libertarians (note upper-case "L" here) would pretty much eliminate what few legal protections I do have and throw all recourse into the civil courts--a solution that favors the wealthy.

Libertarianism is nothing but a continuation of Ronald Reagan's assault on the working class in the U.S.

Oh, for Christ's sake. Reagan did what he could to slow the growth of the number one enemy of anyone who works for a living in this country. Go figure out how much of what you earn is pissed away by the federal government.

Oh, for Christ's sake. Reagan did what he could to slow the growth of the number one enemy of anyone who works for a living in this country.

Sorry, but you're deluded. Reagan's tax cuts and deregulation benefited only the wealthy and big business; they did nothing to help the middle class it. Not only that, his policies essentially declared war on labor unions. Like it or not, it was the unions that created the American middle class in the first place.

I think you need to stop listening to talk radio and start reading up on your history; as it is now, all you're doing is regurgitating right-wing talking points.

Ah, an ad hominem attack. The last resort of someone who is out of his depth. The gloves can come off now.

I'll match my knowledge of history with yours any day of the week. My study of history is why I'm a Libertarian.

I suspect that, like most Capital "L "Libertarians, your "study of history" consists mainly of reading Ayn Rand novels. I didn't need to study it myself--I lived through it and as a working-class guy have been suffering the consequences ever since.

All *you're* doing is repeating the standard big-government propaganda line.

No sir, I'm not a fan of big government nor am I affiliated with any political party; in fact, I'm a lower-case "L" libertarian. I am a fan of trade unionism,

Oh, for Christ's sake. Reagan did what he could to slow the growth of the number one enemy of anyone who works for a living in this country.

Oh, I see. It totally makes sense that saddling the middle class with additional tax burdens to pay for a tax cut for the wealthy would be beneficial to the middle class. And besides, it's not like the real buying power of the middle class has any bearing on the economy or anything.

Face the facts: Reaganomics was a disaster for the vast majority of this country.

Growing up Christian, I understood well why a *Christian* nation would want to eliminate pornography. Banning pornography seemed to fit well with the sixth commandment. It didn't seem at all out of the ordinary that law reflected the derision of most of the voters.

But why is China blocking porn? They aren't a traditionally Christian country - they're decidedly atheist, and actively prosecute Christians. They haven't a clue why (philosophically, at least) sexual morality matters. It seems remarkably odd that a country decidedly anti-Christian is enforcing a ban on pornography, and one more restrictive than America (which is supposedly a Christian nation (or was)).

What possible reason could they have for doing this, aside from the outright malevolent oppression of their citizens. They don't even know *why* porn is wrong, yet they outlaw it.

What possible reason could they have for doing this, aside from the outright malevolent oppression of their citizens.

"Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."- Orwell, 1984.

But that's just the root cause of all totalitarian ideologies. You're looking for the proximate cause, which is why this specific form of control is useful.

Fortunately, the fictional society in George Orwell's unintentional HOWTO also featured a "Junior Anti-Sex League", and it's there for the same reason that China features a ban on pr0n.

They don't even know *why* porn is wrong, yet they outlaw it.

Totalitarians have known precisely what's wrong with unregulated sex, and they've known it - even if just instinctively - since before the written word.

"It was not merely that the sex instinct created a world of its own which was outside the Party's control and which therefore had to be destroyed if possible. What was more important was that sexual privation induced hysteria, which was desirable because it could be transformed into war-fever and leader-worship. (... ) There was a direct intimate connection between chastity and political orthodoxy. For how could the fear, the hatred, and the lunatic credulity with the Party needed in its members be kept at the right pitch, except by bottling down some powerful instinct and using it as a driving force? The sex impulse was dangerous to the Party, and the Party had turned it to account."- Orwell, 1984.

Of course, it's not just the Chinese totalitarians who do this sort of thing. The United States is full of Republichristian fundamentalists to the point that the gay evangelist and toe-tapping Senator are practically cliches.

The Catholic priesthood is celibate - and when it says "Think of the children!", methinks it doth protest too much. But even without its legions of pedopriests, the Catholic Church's ban on contraception comes from the same place: control mating opportunities amongst the laity, and you can keep 'em in church -- because without sex, your gigantic cathedrals (which feature some of the most beautiful architecture/lighting/windows/artwork ever created, and giant mindblowing-reverberating pipe organs that still sound awesome centuries after their construction) were the closest thing a Dark Ages serf would ever get to experiencing ecstasy.

Meanwhile, the marital history of the guy who founded that other religion from the Middle East speaks for itself, and the resulting social policies, in which tribal leaders and rich dudes get four wives... well, with all the wives taken 4-at-a-time to the upper crust, that leaves the low-ranking tribesmen with nothing to look forward to but to strap bombs on themselves in order to hurry up and get their mojo on with those 72 virgins waitin' for 'em in the afterlife.

China's ban on pr0n is just a symptom of a much wider phenomenon that's practically universal amongst authoritarians. The goal isn't th ban pr0n, but the reason it is there is a very good one: it works.

I think Orwell is taken far more seriously than it should. His works serve as a warning of some kind, but hyperbole is strongly present that I can't see why so much people rely on what they say so much. Other than stating that "Power is not a means; it is an end.", everything else you quoted is either obvious, an exaggeration or downright misleading.

"There was a direct intimate connection between chastity and political orthodoxy." Well, correlation is not causaton. The same polygamy-allower Middle East rel

Feel free to ignore it then, but I still think to say the reason of it is that sexual privation induced hysteria, which was desirable because it could be transformed into war-fever and leader-worship sounds too much like a conspiracy theorist rambling to be something I could take seriously, especially because it's from a fictional book. Even if they could create such hysteria, how could they be so sure it wouldn't backfire and make even more people oppose them. The would be going against one of the primary

Meanwhile, the marital history of the guy who founded that other religion from the Middle East speaks for itself, and the resulting social policies, in which tribal leaders and rich dudes get four wives... well, with all the wives taken 4-at-a-time to the upper crust, that leaves the low-ranking tribesmen with nothing to look forward to but to strap bombs on themselves in order to hurry up and get their mojo on with those 72 virgins waitin' for 'em in the afterlife.

It might be useful to remember Abraham had 3 wives and the pre-existing culture, before these marriage customs were adopted, involved pre-arranged marriages where the children, especially young girls, were prevented from making their own choices. In the context of history, restricting a wealthy man to four wives was unheard of even in Christian Europe at the time that other religion from the Middle East was being adopted.

What the stories of Jesus and Mo really convey is a strategy for defining limits on tr

Wow, that is the most ignorant piece of drivel I've read on the internet all day. I will take a few moments out of my otherwise busy schedule to explain why you come across as completely ignorant:

1. The sixth commandment is "thou shalt not kill" -- how does it apply?

2. The USA isn't a Christian nation. It's a nation where the majority consider themselves to be part of the minority of "real" Christians. Oh, and they love pornography as it's a billion dollar business.

China does indeed block porn out due to moral concerns. Socialist morality is real and predates the people's revolution. I know tons of Chinese people and precisely two religious folk. It's funny, the most isolated (from the rest of China) and outward-facing city, Wenzhou, has more Christians than just about any other place I've seen. It's also funny that you can use Christians because they're so blinkeredly honest. A businessman friend of mine swears by (Chinese) Christian accountants. He would never anyone else for the position because Christians have this goofy moral code that says they shouldn't steal and lie like the rest of the population of China.

China did tear down temples and persecute monks relentlessly. The real Shaolin monastery was destroyed. Any temple you see has been rebuilt since the 80s. The Tibetans in particular suffered from atheist persecution when their theocratic state was conquered. The Falun Gong might be a crazy cult but they fulfilled a need, a great spiritual hunger that was going unsatisfied.

Disagreement is different from lack of knowledge. Calling somebody ignorant just because it disagrees with your worldview is wrong. Stop doing it.

I stand by my claim that the poster is ignorant and made strong claims based on nothing more than erroneous presumptions. Exactly what part of my response do you disagree with? Everything you say fits very well:

1. You yourself claim that the stereotype about Christians among Chinese is positive, not negative.

2. "The rest of China" is predominantly religious, not atheist. Feel free to verify that fact yourself.

3. You point out various types of religious persecution that aren't against Christians at all. So u

I don't know anyone who goes to church or temple, and I know a lot of people. Who are these religious folk? Buddhists? Ancestor worship? Those aren't exactly 'religions' in the way that you or I would consider the term, they're more like traditions. As for erroneous presumptions, it may be that your own presumptions could merely be one interpretation of the subjective reality that you live in, and you're denying that any other interpretation could exist. This is much closer to the real definition of i

Buddhists, Taoists, Muslim, Christian are four big religions in China. They are religions, not tradition. Ancestor worship and confucius related stuff are tradition mixing with religions, depends on your own thought.

Basically, Chinese have a very complex religious world view, mixing traditional Chinese religion with philosophy like Taoism makes the religion of Taoism, which is so local that for many of its religious stuff, we are not sure what's tradition and what is religion anymore. Because it's a religio

"Those aren't exactly 'religions' in the way that you or I would consider the term..."Okay, so in your world view, Buddhism isn't a religion?

As I understand, the Chinese have a very rich and diverse set of supernatural belief systems. You may or may not call every single one of them a "religion" per se, but if it involves supernatural entities, it sure as hell isn't atheism (or rather: naturalism/existentialism).

I don't know anyone who goes to church or temple, and I know a lot of people.

What does that have to do with anything? You can only have religious beliefs if you go to a special building?

Who are these religious folk? Buddhists? Ancestor worship? Those aren't exactly 'religions' in the way that you or I would consider the term, they're more like traditions.

As a Buddhist, allow me to say that right there is some ignorant bullshit.

As for erroneous presumptions, it may be that your own presumptions could merely be one interpretation of the subjective reality that you live in, and you're denying that any other interpretation could exist. This is much closer to the real definition of ignorance.

Indeed it is. While we're on the subject, how about if you explain why you think Buddhism and Ancestor Worship aren't religions. I strongly suspect your argument is going to boil down to "it doesn't fit the mould of Judeo-Christian religions."

Chinese propaganda was loud and strong against Tibetans and their religion.

Wait, so the Tibetans have a religion then? You do realize the Tibetans are Buddhists,

I know tons of Chinese people and precisely two religious folk. It's funny, the most isolated (from the rest of China) and outward-facing city, Wenzhou, has more Christians than just about any other place I've seen.

That's probably because the Christians in the most-populated areas have been made an example of. Check out the extras on What Would Jesus Buy to hear the account of a Chinese Christian woman beaten, raped, and incarcerated for long years in a prison camp where she was put to work making Christmas lights to be sold in American stores. Her "crime"? Refusing to give up her faith.

Minor point, but a quick glance at the Wikipedia article shows that while all Judeo-Christian variants agree that there are Commandments that must be followed, and that there are 10 of them, they cannot seem to agree which Commandment is which. For instance, the Sixth Commandment is "thou shalt not kill" for Episcopalians, but "thou shalt not commit adultery" for Lutherans. If you mix and match denominations, you could obtain anywhere between 9 and 12 Commandments.

You write so poorly that at first I thought you were trolling. But if you're going to argue against my post, you can at least refrain from contradicting yourself:

In point 4, you admonish me for not knowing the beliefs of the Chinese (which is irrelevant, because I was discussing the government position, not the citizens' beliefs...), but yet in point 2 you claim the US is not a Christian nation. Had you even checked Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], you'd know that, "According to a 2007 survey, 78.4% of adults identified the

How ironic that you devote so much energy to pointing out the GP's logical inconsistencies while you ignore the glaring fallacy that is the basis of your own argument.

athiest != amoral

Most "Christian" morals* can be arrived at logically by examining the effects human behaviors have on society, and essentially doing a moral cost-benefit analysis. Moral codes exist to promote social stability, and as such you find certain mores in pretty much every human society, such as prohibitions on murder and stealing, m

But why is China blocking porn? They aren't a traditionally Christian country - they're decidedly atheist, and actively prosecute Christians.

For the same reason as muslim countries?

You know, historically there were only two ways of contraception:1, abstinence until marriage2, infanticide (see the works of William Graham Sumner)(3, calender method, which is known to performs rather poorly)

While China does not have 'traditional Christian values', Christians aren't the only group on this planet which places value on the traditional nuclear (and extended) family units. They probably see pornography as detrimental to matrimonial harmony. Chinese culture has also traditionally revered the role the mother has within a family unit, so it isn't likely just a "anti-porn for the sake of women" but for the sake of mothers.

It might also be due to the 1-child rule. Porn, in my experience, seems to add fr

Asian societies in general are very conservative when it comes to sex. The Japanese are an exception with regards to porn, but when it comes down to actually doing the nasty they're pretty conservative, at least by American standards.

If you were to do an item-by-item comparison of Chinese traditional morals vs. American traditional morals, you'd find more similarities than differences, and a lot of those difference would come down to the Chinese being more strict.