Ben was saddled with complete shit for pass pro the entire first half of his career. Mediocre OC's his entire career.

What could have been....In 30+ years the only QB I've seen with more talent and ability is Aaron Rodgers. Fuck Tom Brady - if he doesn't play for NE I guarantee he isn't in this conversation. But Peyton is an interesting discussion.

Ben was saddled with complete shit for pass pro the entire first half of his career. Mediocre OC's his entire career.

What could have been....In 30+ years the only QB I've seen with more talent and ability is Aaron Rodgers. Fuck Tom Brady - if he doesn't play for NE I guarantee he isn't in this conversation. But Peyton is an interesting discussion.

Dan Marino remains criminally underrated. I might be inclined to add an Elway or a Steve Young in there, as well. Machine Gun Kelly could definitely sling it, as well. Brett Favre in his prime also did not suck, but I take your point.

Ben was saddled with complete shit for pass pro the entire first half of his career. Mediocre OC's his entire career.

What could have been....In 30+ years the only QB I've seen with more talent and ability is Aaron Rodgers. Fuck Tom Brady - if he doesn't play for NE I guarantee he isn't in this conversation. But Peyton is an interesting discussion.

Dan Marino remains criminally underrated. I might be inclined to add an Elway or a Steve Young in there, as well. Machine Gun Kelly could definitely sling it, as well. Brett Favre in his prime also did not suck, but I take your point.

Marino only really had 4-5 great years– he was solid in most years but he never quite reached the heights of year 2.. His year 2 is either the greatest or second greatest regular season a QB has ever had in the history of the league... but he had some really mediocre years in between year 2 and his later-career resurgence.

TB, yeah, I guess some may say that is misleading, I don't. Arians offense was better than Haley's in the post-season.

8 games with Arians they still, discounting the 4 TD returns, scored 22 TDs and only 12 FGs.

7 games with Haley and those numbers were 15 TDs and 18 FGs, before that offensive explosion against Jax, those numbers were 9 TDs and 18 FGs in 6 games.

The Jets game, yeah, we had a TD return by the defense to make it 24-0, but the real point is that we were already up 17-0, we got out to a big lead which is what you want your offense to do and it made the other team press, forced to try and play catch up. Never mind that the great Dick LeBeau defense would surrender 19 points in pretty much the last 15 minutes of the game to make it close.

Arians offenses were able to get out to those leads, 10-0 against Arizona in the Super Bowl, 17-0 against the JETS, the SD game was even at 7-7 but then the offense got that big lead scored 3 TDs in short order and we were up 28-10, against Baltimore we got up 13-0. Contrast that with Haley's offenses. Wow, there we were up 3-0 against Baltimore! And against Cincy we were up 3-0, then it was up 6-0, then 9-0, impressive!!! Against Denver our biggest lead was when we went up on them by 4 points 10-6 and then later 13-9, we would lose 23-16. Miami, now that was a game in which Haley's offense played like Arians units, we quickly got up on them by 14 points, 14-0, and not by coincidence we won the game 30-12. KC the FG game, less said about that the better. NE game? No lead. Jax game? No lead.

Sorry, but I still contend that Arians offenses were better in the post season. We were even more balanced and were able to run for TDs, having 12 rushing TDs compared to Haley's offenses only accounting for 5 rushing TDs.

I am glad that Haley is gone and hopefully Fitchner can be the OC to truly make this offense play to its potential. One thing that we have to get back to however, is that our offense has to strike first, build leads and help the defense out, put the defense in better position to play loose, play fast and play aggressive, that is how turnovers and big plays happen.

Marino only really had 4-5 great years– he was solid in most years but he never quite reached the heights of year 2.. His year 2 is either the greatest or second greatest regular season a QB has ever had in the history of the league... but he had some really mediocre years in between year 2 and his later-career resurgence.

I really don't know what to make of Marino anymore. I am old enough to remember watching his games, I even lived in Florida at the time. I also remember Dan Fouts and that is what makes me pause when people talk of how great or underrated Marino was, how he did things nobody else did.

I remember watching Dan Fouts and those San Diego teams in the early 80s. Fouts had 4715 yards passing in 1980 and 4802 yards in 1981. So, Marino has 5048 yards passing in 1984, but Dan Fouts may have had a chance to be right there with Marino but he missed 3 games. Fouts and his backup Ed Luther combined for 4,903 yards passing that year. Neil Lomax that year in 1984 passed for 4,614 yards. The point that I am trying to make here, is that simply the 5,000 yards passing is not really that impressive to me, the game was trending in that direction, someone was going to pass that threshold in short order. Marino was the first, so yeah, kudos to him.

The 48 TDs was really impressive, but that is the one thing that really was like an anomaly. Those 3 seasons of 84, 85, 86 he was on another level and then the remainder of his career it was sort of like meh, for me.

One of the things that I always felt was keeping him back, holding him back was that they stuck so long with Duper and Clayton and those two just did not age well and were not consistent enough. Clayton, yeah everybody remembers the 18 TDs in 84, but then to follow that up with just 4 touchdowns the very next year? Later he would have 3 TD seasons. Duper was in the same category, only worse, he actually had seasons where he had as little as 1 TD for a season, doing that twice in 88 and 89. How do you have Dan Marino as your QB and you end up with 1 TD for the year? And then they would bring on old vets like an Irving Fryar or a Mark Ingram, Fred Barnett, Brett Permian, that were all well past their primes, etc. He never really got the supporting cast that he deserved, not just on defense, and not just a RB, but the WRs, TEs, etc. Very strange.

One thing that we have to get back to however, is that our offense has to strike first, build leads and help the defense out, put the defense in better position to play loose, play fast and play aggressive, that is how turnovers and big plays happen.

Mike Tomlin has a chance to go down in Steelers lore as a great HC if he plays this right. He has a chance to go down in history as a HC who played it smart early in his career riding the machine already in place and built to win via "style points don't matter" but who adjusted when his team was built for (potentially) high powered offense plus a defense that (hopefully) does "enough".

If Tomlin does not adjust to the roster as (potentially) currently constructed, I would likely view him forever as among the dumb coaches I have seen in sports. I am hoping hoping hoping that will not be the case.

marino should have been a steeler except for team stupidy..I don't think marino was underrated..he got lots of praise. I think he just underachieved in playoffs.. I think what made marino so amazing was he was the ulitimate-perfect qb model at time and his arm and amazingly fast release were god like.. he was a fav off mine since pitt days and I was sick for decades steelers did not draft him..i recall vividly the draft and how shocked I was dan was still on board for steelers. please pic marino please... I was sick..then our pic is mangled in wreck..salt in wound..I loved and still love watching danny marino whip the ball around like magic. dude was unsackable cause he could wait till the pressure close and wing it 45 yards on a rope on target in blink of an eye..iff steelers and noll had marino instead of fucking Malone and other bums no doubt another trophy or 2 would be in the case..sorry for the topic straying but someone mentioned marino..loved the guy!!