POSTGAME NOTES: Melky’s Suspension, and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

And looking back, what a player told me last night came a day early. “This could be a turning point,” I was told, after the Giants beat up on the Nats for the first time this season.

Nope, it’s just the day before THE DAY.

This is the one they’ll talk about if the Giants collapse. Melky Cabrera proved to be too good to be true, Tim Lincecum still isn’t back and the Giants aren’t even a first-place team anymore.

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I’ve written thousands of words today and most of them have been PED-related, so I’ll keep this short. The Giants remain confident, at least outwardly. They said the right things when the media descended on the clubhouse. Things like:

“We did it without Pablo and stayed in first place. I think we can do it again.” — Crawford.
““We’re losing one of our best players but we have to move on. You’ve got to keep playing. There’s nothing you can do about it. We’re going to do the same thing we did when we lost Pablo (Sandoval to injuries). We believe in what we have here.” — Pagan.

“Melky was having a really nice year for us. But our thoughts are right now, we move on. That’s all you can do.” — Bochy.

“Every team, whether it’s injuries or whatnot, you’re going to lose guys. We have to approach the rest of the year with a chip on our shoulders.” — Posey.

Time will tell if all of that proves to be true. As Clay Hensley said, it’s easy to say you’re going to go out and get over something like this, it’s far harder to actually do it. The Giants have been here before, losing Posey, Wilson, Sandoval, etc. But man, this is a pretty big one, and an embarrassing one. We’ll see if they can actually bounce back.

— My updated Melky story can be found here and has all the details from today, as well as reactions from the clubhouse and a look at what Cabrera cost himself. (Hint: $1.6 million for the rest of this year alone.)

— If you check back later tonight, my game story will be here and talks about another game where Lincecum failed to throw five innings. The timing wasn’t great, that’s for sure.

Posey said it best, while talking about Melky. “We’re going to need (Lincecum). He’s going to be big for us as well, this last month and a half.”

The Giants need everyone to perform at this point. They fell out of first place today for the first time since July 13. The Dodgers are now 5-1 on their road trip and surely have a little extra bounce now that they know the Giants lost a key cog.

— Dan Otero was optioned back to Triple-A. I’m told it’s likely the Giants will call up two hitters to join them in San Diego on Friday. Check the rest of today’s blog posts for more thoughts on where the Giants go from here.

Not only do the Giants need to pick up the slack, they need to hope the Dodgers don’t continue on a tear.

Slash78

A juiced Angels team beat a juiced Giants team in 2002. They aren’t tainted. A juiced Red Sox team beat a juiced Yankees team to make it to the 2004 WS and a juiced Cardinals team in the WS. They weren’t tainted. 2007 Mike Lowell found a fountain of young and helped Boston to another WS. They still aren’t tainted. Where is the “taint” on the ’88, ’89 and ’90 A’s? Or the 1997 Indians…who read as a who’s who of juicers.

Screw Tim Kawakami and his BS High Horse “tainted” rant about the Giants. But not, it’s all on the Giants and only the Giants.

prima facie

Scooter, is there ever a day for that “first” childishness?

avwh

Last year’s NL MVP was busted for PEDs. How come he got off, missed no games, and we lose our 2nd-best player for the rest of the season?? How come Melky couldn’t get the same arbitrator Braun had?

Slash78

@avwh, the Giants lose their second best player because he was voted in over last years MVP.

The Oracle

Why would anyone waste their time worrying about Kawakami’s opinion?

Luke mcwarmsky

The marketing department is scrambling right now thinking up something to replace the “Melkmen”.

I’m just worried we’re going to see a bunch of idiots dressed up like English pennies.

Scooter McFinch

I heard a good one from Rick Sutcliffe I think.

He was concerned about the NL’s World Series home-field advantage being tainted by Cabrera’s performance.

Boxergar

I wonder if the Giants had someone speak to Melky in Spanish regarding the use of drugs. Not racist as I am Latino.

Mook Groovy

@post#5

Word.

Lefty

“BS LEFTY says:
August 15th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

So Baggs is lying too?

You still don’t get it. Nobody is telling Baggs anything. He knows he didn’t do his job correctly in this particular case.

His apology was and is appropriate.”
—————————————————————————

You don’t get it, either. The point is that I don’t really know, and neither do you. I do know that people will lie–or say what they’re told to say–when they have a gun pointed to their heads. Wouldn’t you? I probably would.

Believe what you want. We’ll never really know for sure. What we do know is that people knew a lot of stuff a long time before it became official and public today. And I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. Baggs still has his job and some vindication of sorts. The Giants don’t have Melky anymore. The rest is just speculation.

Moving on now, like a bumblebee, to a new flower. Hopefully one that smells better than the news of today.

Matthew

Scooter, I heard Sutcliffe as well.. He really doesn’t want to open that can of worms… Then you’re “vacating” other teams titles, etc. …such as LA with Manny, NY with A Rod….where do you start and stop? His claim was that the NL won because of Melky. Does that mean the AL wins with Melky’s stats? Actually, the NL still does.

I’m very disappointed with Melky, and make no excuses. I’m hoping the boys come together. I’m again somewhat embarrassed by the Giants being front and center in another PED scandal ( only somewhat because every team is tainted) . But Sutcliffe’s stance was grandstanding. He knows better.

Scooter McFinch

It all makes sense now.

No wonder the Melk-maids had stubble.

Matthew

Character is revealed through adversity…let us now see the character of this team.

Stan

The odds get longer..Our steroid players get caught before THEIR steroid players.

Slash78

Will the Owners void all the money the made between 1985 and 2004? No.

pacman68

Tim Kawakami needs to wake up and smell reality. Come on dude. Get off your soap box.

I posted this earlier and it’s true

Everyone in baseball has cheated every now and then. The sport was built on cheating. Melky got caught which is a blessing for the Giants. Cause they don’t have to pay him the farm now. I doubt he will come back anyway. There have been many Giants over the years that I raised an eyebrow too. Here are a bunch that come to mine.

For pete sakes even Whitey Ford said that he use to use his wedding ring to scuff the ball and give him an advantage.

It happens and will always happen. Some get caught and some don’t. It’s part of the game and always will be.

Giants won’t be able to replace Melky and will probably fold.

The Oracle

The Giants aren’t any more or less involved with PEDS than any other team. The team’s proximity to Victor Conte resulted in more Giants being exposed but, throughout the 90’s and well into the 2000s, just about EVERYONE in baseball was juicing.

I also don’t get too worked up about Barry Bonds using. Bonds came late to steroids, after McGwire and Sosa started doing their thing. Imagine you’re Barry Bonds in 2001. You know you’re the best player in baseball, but you have to watch as McGwire and Sosa, both blown up like cartoon superheroes, leave your performance in the dust. You also know how they’re doing it, as I’m sure it was no mystery to the players. Baseball was turning a blind eye to it, so I really don’t blame Bonds too much for trying to level the playing field. When he did, it was once again obvious who the best player in baseball was.

To hear the sanctimonious outrage of sports writers on this issue is laughable. It was obvious to me, sitting on my couch, that the vast majority of players were using, simply from their sheer size. Surely there must have been a sportswriter somewhere who had lifted weights enough to know that a grown man does not go home for the offseason and come back having gained 25 pounds of muscle, just because he got a new personal trainer or started drinking protein shakes. Where was the reporting on the issue by these so called journalists?

Thankfully, the new testing program has at least put a dent in the amount of users and what they can get away with using. Don’t be so naive, though, as to assume that Melky Cabrera is some kind of rare exception.

Scooter McFinch

Matthew,

I’m down for Woodenisms. This team needs all they can get. Someone needs to hang Woodenisms in Lincecum’s bedroom so he can meditate on these. That’s what we’re talking about.

This is just like an injury anyways. The Cards were beat up last year. Sandoval picks up Melky’s production and something unexpected happens.

With the Pirates tanking, if the Giants win this thing, you know who will be the MVP.

But if the Giants don’t heed the words of Wooden and drop the next six, then it’s time to gear up for Niners football.

killblue

I never understood why people found enjoyment out of being FIRST to comment on a forum.

It was never cool or funny, and it still isn’t.

Slash78

@Stan, it’s selective enforcement. I’m sure they take samples from players multiple times a year. I’m sure they don’t actually TEST all those samples every time. That would cost more then MLB and the cheapass Owners would want to pay.

How do you explain the “mishandling” of Braun’s sample? Simple. This was one of the ones that wasn’t to be tested and the lab messed up.

I don’t care how many other players are doing it. I don’t want it on the Giants.

——————————

After that, I just don’t want to know. Sure, I bet a bunch of players are cheating, probably a few more Giants. But if you are at least smart enough to avoid getting caught, you are probably only being aided the same amount as the other guys that are not getting caught.

Doesn’t make it right, but it makes the playing field a bit more level.

Melky was either too dumb to get away with it or was using too much to get away with it.

————————————

Also, they make enough money that a weekly blood test would not be outrageous, IMO. Improve testing.

———————————–

Hey, I have an idea for LF. What’s Barry doing?

Jay

I bet Chipper Jones was not surprised by today’s news.

SurfCity

@ Lefty from last thread,

hey, you make a lot of great points Lefty in speculating about who knew what, and when.

My thought is along the lines of something I think WC said – that the testing process, including the right to a 2nd verifying test, is supposed to be confidential. If you have a first positive test, but the rules allow you to take a 2nd one before you’re busted, then it’s prudent for the first test to not be announced — since there is a chance that it was a false positive.

So for that reason, I don’t think it’s right for a paid corporate blogger like Baggs, or a reporter or journalist to report the first test. It’s not OK because he was later proved to be right. It’s still wrong because it violates the process.

Now, that doesn’t mean Melky didn’t lied. He lied. But really, that’s not surprising. Most anyone accused of doing something wrongs tries to lie their way out of it. That’s practically human nature. So in my mind’s eye, it’s the original offense – the doping, that is the bad thing, and not so much the lying, which I just chalk up to human nature.

Surf, I disagree. Baggs is now evil. He pretends to be a journalist when he is actually a mouthpiece. FOX Noise, sports edition.

But when you think about it, why did we not belive Baggs initial report. He was WAY, WAY inside.

Slash78

@Jay, we KNOW A-Rod wasn’t surprised. He works out with him in the offseason.

And someone should ask Larry about all those great seasons in the heart of the Steriod Era. Yeah, I’m sure Roids had NOTHING to do with that 14 year Atlanta run. That’s why Henry Aaron wouldn’t say a WORD about Bonds’ possible juicing.

Speaking of Aaron, how did he at 39, Darrell Evans and Davey Johnson (yeah, that guy) all hit 40+ HRs in 1973. Evans would hit 40 one other time in his season but Johnson (know for juicer teams in the 1990s) hit only 5 the year before and 15 the year after and hit a total of 90 in the other 12 years of his 13 year career? Three players on a team with 40+ HR one year, one with 25 and two with 20 the next. Hmmm. Strange. And at a time Roids were already in other sports like Football.

Win when?

The Angels and the Dodgers are becoming more and more the media darlings of ESPN. There seems to have been a bias against the Giants for many years now.

Don’t sign Melky. He was good. We know why. Ending terms with Cabrera would be a big step for the Giants. “Now we can get him cheap.” That would be a big mistake.

Speculator

Cracking down on the scandalous practice of proclaiming “first” in a blog comment is a high priority. We cannot afford to let this abhorrent. practice continue.

Think of the children.

SurfCity

@Luke @ 10, don’t worry – the MelkMen are all getting new jobs, as pharmacists. The white outfits can be reused and they only have to ditch the hats.

Luke mcwarmsky

Do the corporate schills have the night off?

Scooter McFinch

Good call on the 73 Braves, Slash.

Poster child team for PED suspicion.

ExPFCWintergreen

Surf says: ” would describge Baggs as a well-paid corporate blogger. ” Which is what he was when he worked for the Media News Group, Inc. Nothing has changed except perhaps that he probably earns more money now. Surely you recognize that newspapers aren’t large corporate organizations? But that doesn’t make them evil.

Big Time

I haven’t been religiously following the blog this season, can someone fill me in on all this “Baggs was right” talk?

PFCWintergreen, good point. However I guess where I would differ is that the media group that owns the Merc. does not also make millions of dollars broadcasting the Giants. So threre’s not the same glaring level of overt conflict of interest.

But your point that reporters typically work for corporations is true. But there is still a heavy emphasis on the the ethcics of journalism and news reporting even in news organizations owned by corporations.

3KINGS

maybe there is another steroid user we can trade for

we seem to be the MASTERS OF PED’s

Obrother

Posted this on earlier blog today and Cictor Conti added this to later interview- 59% of players are using the short acting testosterone after games or in the off season. The ones that don’t get caught have good advisors. From earlier post:Just Victor Conti on Chron TV and he basically said many players are using testosterone creams after games and if they get tested the next day it’s in the normal range. So my guess is that Melky used after an extended inning game and Giants had an early day game next day and got caught. My guess is that many players are probably using the stuff but giving body time to clear it out. He just got caught and if my statement above is true I think baseball knows this and is just playing the ” see we’re being good and taking care of problem. Conti also said that another test that MLB doesn’t use can find if you’ve used testosterone in past two weeks. After hearing him I’m thinking many players are using it.

3KINGS

the testing has put a dent in PED’s? no way

the MVP of MLB RYAN BRAUN

is a steroid user and got off cause his boss runs the SHOW

ExPFCWintergreen

Surf – “But there is still a heavy emphasis on the the ethcics of journalism”

I think this might have been true decades ago…

dgg

“Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day”

One of my favorite children’s books, Alex. Perfect description for today, all the way around. Doubt there will be a “Where were you?” when you heard the news. I was at work in between patients and decided to briefly check the score at the beginning of the game. Later on, I called my husband.

– “Have you heard?”
– “Yeah,” he said, “Now we know why he was doing so well.”
– “Yep.”

There wasn’t much to say after that.

KezarMike

Melky let his teammates down and the fans down BIG TIME ! No “melky contract anxiety” for the fans as his career as a Giant should be finished already.

SurfCity

PFC it is still true now. It really is.

There’s a huge difference between writing as a news reporter for a paper, and writing a blog for a corporation where the subject of your blog is the primary money-maker of the organization. There’s just no arguing with that difference.

So I’m not buying it when you try to minizmize the difference – because it’s a big difference.

Slash78

FP Santagelo was a Giant for 1 year. Yet when people want to link his PED use it’s always to the Giants. What about when he was with…

Yet he’s a link to the Giants and ONLY to the Giants when concerning PEDs? BS!!!

Mr. Disgusted

Some have posted that Melky is just doing what everyone else is doing… Well then I am DISGUSTED that he was stupid enough to get BUSTED when everyone else seems to get away with it!

The Giants can still win the division… but it’s gonna be hard.

Obrother

If Conti can be believed which I think he can it means MLB knows about the problem but if a player gets got he missed his timing. Currently noal testosterone is normal at 1 but MLB allows a 4 and that testing is available that can tell if a person has taken it in last 2 weeks but they use a test that can only pick up use for a few hours. MLB is basically looking the other way because they DON’T want to catch these guys but if a player has a crappy advisors who doesn’t follow protocol they have to ” make a statement”. Also if what Conti says is true I will welcome Melky back because guys have to level the playing field if half of all players are using. I do think the s*it is going to hit the fan for Selig and company soon.

Sam

killblue says:
August 15th, 2012 at 8:49 pm
I never understood why people found enjoyment out of being FIRST to comment on a forum.

It was never cool or funny, and it still isn’t.
—————-

It is so uncool that it has become the cool thing to do.

ExPFCWintergreen

Slash – You may have a point about FP, but it could also be that his last MLB team was the Giants. I have to say that the SF area media have a lot to do with the fact that everybody associates the Giants with steroids because the SF Chron reporters wrote the book about Barry. I am sure they were ethical about though… I am certain it had nothing to do with the fact that Barry never showed the reporters sufficient reverence

Huuge blow but the giants can defiantly hang in there. the most important piece has always been Buster Posey. as long as they have him i think they’ll be ok. I think hunter Pence is gonna step up big time.

Really a damn shame though.

Mr. Disgusted

FIRST!!!

(I’m calling FIRST for the next thread .. kinda like calling “shotgun”)

Jr

Pacman68 – According to you “Everyone in baseball has cheated every now and then.”

So do tell me how the likes of Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Stan Musial, Hank Aaron, Willie McCovey, Frank Robinson, Tom Seaver, Joe Morgan, Ernie Banks and Sandy Koufax cheated. You like to think that you know alot so I would like to hear the basis for your statement which would include these individuals. Be specific if you are going to make really stupid statements like that.

Yeah, I didn’t think so. Apology accepted.

easong

Relax Giants’ fans: Posey is a god, Pence is alive, Pablo is back, Cody Ross (59 rbi) has already been contacted through his agent, and Sabs is looking for a closer-to-be for which he will give up Gary Brown or whatever. Pay no attention to the stay-the-course nonsense. it’s time to deal, and it’s time to step it up or find yourself in KC.

Jay

I will say that as an employer, the Giants need to take some responsibility for the behavior of its employees. Whether its due diligence at the point of “hire” or better education/counseling, i don’t believe the Giants should be allowed to rest on “no comment – MLB policy”. What are they going to do to prove they “fully support” drug testing and enforcement? As a Charter season ticket holder who has invested a small fortune in their product, it’s hard not to feel some resentment about the marketing campaigns designed around individual players – all designed to pull you in hard. When that product turns out to be a “lie”, what happens? We all move on to the next Melky? I realize this is in no way uniquely a Giants problem, but i need to see something from them that reassures me as a buyer they are doing more than offering lip service.

Obrother

Other part of earlier post that i forgot to post a few posters earlier: Just Victor Conti on Chron TV and he basically said many players are using testosterone creams after games and if they get tested the next day it’s in the normal range. So my guess is that Melky used after an extended inning game and Giants had an early day game next day and got caught. My guess is that many players are probably using the stuff but giving body time to clear it out. He just got caught and if my statement above is true I think baseball knows this and is just playing the ” see we’re being good and taking care of problem. Conti also said that another test that MLB doesn’t use can find if you’ve used testosterone in past two weeks. After hearing him I’m thinking many players are using it.

ExPFCWintergreen

I believe that many MLB players have used PEDs, especially when they wasn’t a testing program. Now that there is one, many feel that they can get away with it to some degree, so they play the odds. Some probably even feel that they must do it to remain competitive with the others that already are users. It will probably always go on to some degree in many sports. Where there is a lot of money at stake, its corrupting influence is difficult to eradicate entirely.

Sam

If baseball wants to eliminate PED’s a lifetime ban on first positive test. The current rules are not enough of a deterrent.

Why wouldnt Melky take PED’s. He risked 1.6 mil at a chance to get 80 mil. Can’t blame him for that. If he were facing a lifetime ban, would he have taken PEDs?

Dario Argento

If the Giants make the playoffs and win this thing, they will show the baseball world that they have a lot of moxy. I believe they can overcome Melky’s absence in the lineup. It’s baseball and anything can happen…

DomnVinsDad

Anybody else find it interesting that Timmy referred to Melky as the teams best hitter?

Of course there is nothing to his dislike of Buster.

Conspiracy theorists, please discuss.

Matthew

Now we are left to wonder if you’re truly disgusted, or just being sarcastic. I’m so confused.

Slash78

They took down Bonds for the same reason they pulled down one of Saddam’s statues in Baghdad. They wanted a very visible jesture, no matter how empty.

All through 2007 A-Rod was accompanied by a man who was CAUGHT with a gym back full of needles and PEDs (and had been banned from several stadiums). He won the MVP…oh how did Good Ole Butt Selig put it…? Oh yeah, the RIGHT WAY! He was the shining Knight to move past the dirty Bonds Era.

But yeah, nothing like journelistic ethics.

ExPFCWintergreen

Jr. – you chastize PacMan in defense of Mays, Jackie Robinson, etc. These PEDs weren’t readily available then, so one can’t know what they might have done. Plus the money paid to players was nothing like now, so the temptation to take extraordinary steps to compete wasn’t as strong, in my opinion

pacman68

Jr.

How do you know Hank Aaron didn’t cheat. Greenies were very popular back in the day and gave you a much needed boost during the dog days. I’m not saying everyone cheated … I’m saying it’s more prevalent then you think it is. You can’t sit there with a straight face and tell me that you don’t think a lot of players today use an edge.

Scooter McFinch

I’m buying what Obrother is selling – or what Victor Conte is selling.

I’m sure there are lots of loopholes for these guys to get a little pick me up. Fast acting, fast dissipating creams? Sure. How about leaked information that warns players to get someone else’s urine lined up , or to cool it for a couple nights?

And if they do caught, there’s loopholes for that too. It’s like corporate tax-evasion.

DomnVinsDad says:
August 15th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
Anybody else find it interesting that Timmy referred to Melky as the teams best hitter?

Of course there is nothing to his dislike of Buster.

Conspiracy theorists, please discuss.
——————-
Melky: .346
Posey: .330

Mr. Disgusted

Matthew, my fellow Sonoran, I am truly disgusted by this news.

Hence, the change in my avatar.

avwh

So was Melky just dumb, lazy, or careless, that he got caught?

JT Snow was on with Tolbert on KNBR this evening. He pointed out that so many of the Latin players come from such dire poverty, it’s “normal” to use PEDs as a means to one big MLB contract so they can come back home & support their families. And the cultural response to “getting caught” is different if you did it to make money & never intended to stay in the U.S. after your playing days were over anyway.

I had a trainer a while back who played college ball with Zito, Michael Young, and others. He told me about several MLB players he knew from opposing teams in college in his day who were thin & not big power hitters their first college season. The next season, they’d suddenly look like linebackers instead of baseball players – and hit 450 ft HRs regularly. Everybody knew what fueled the sudden transformation.

I’m guessing every forgot about the scandals of players doing drugs in the 70’s and 80’s. Sure, maybe they were not called “performance enhancing drugs.” Gosh, how many players were busted for doing Cocaine? Can’t recall alot of names right now, though I do remember Vida Blue was, though it seems unfair to mention him without remembering the other namess

Mr. Disgusted

Cow …
Remember that episode when Homer stumbled into the “real” world ..?

Jay (63) – I think that the player’s union – MLB contract specifically prohibits the team from saying anything. The team is also the last one to be notified, and this is to protect the due process privileges of the players. To some extent, then, the Giants really can’t do that much. Also, the team does not have a role in the actual operation of the testing program. So there is little they can do as a practical matter. I am sure that the team does talk about drug and PED abuse from time to time at team meetings, spring training, etc. Not too much else they can do. I don’t think that Giants knew ahead of time that Melky was taking anything, so can we really blame the marketing folks? It falls on Melky. He did it because he was seduced by the prospects of a big payday at the end of this year, which is a contract year for him. He chose…..poorly

Sorry, you are right. Batting average is the sole indicator of who is a better hitter. My apologies.

pacman68

So can someone tell me how Vaughn got off last year? Did Bud call in a much needed favor?

avwh

Speculator:

Whitey Herzog traded Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen – a disaster of a deal for the Cardinals that looked bad at the time and became much worse when Allen flamed out pretty quickly & Hernandez was on the World Series Mets teams within a couple years.

Batting average measures a batter’s success in achieving a hit during an at-bat. The player with the highest batting average wins the hitting title for that year.

But wow, you are good at declaring a conspiracy theory based on nothing, then contemptuously being sarcastic when confronted with facts.

You go girl!

Scooter McFinch

Mr. Disgusted says:
August 15th, 2012 at 9:47 pm

Matthew, my fellow Sonoran, I am truly disgusted by this news.

Hence, the change in my avatar.

—-

No wonder you two get along with Foothills. Nobody else does. Can’t blame them.

Speculator

Thanks avwh, my brain has forgotten the names of all the players doing cocaine – but there were lots

Mr. Disgusted

June 2012: Melky on fire. Giants front office feeling heat to sign him to a long term contract. “Do it Sabes!!” screams Larry Baer. “Melk Man hats are selling through the roof! And don’t even get me started on the new Chocolate MELK Shake stand that we are building next to the bleacher section!!!”

July 2012: Baggs leaks the positive test result.
Sabean: “Ummm… We were thinking something along the lines of Quentin’s deal.. or less”…

PFC, I’d push all in that they knew. If not simply from the trainers, they knew when Cain found out.

I read through the majority of the drug policy. The legalese is dripping with plausible deniabilities.

The “Club GM” is told only when a penalty is being enforced, yet the club is listed specifically as being bound by confidentiality on test results (results that become moot when they would otherwise find out because the world would find out upon penalties).

The whole thing is a sham. I’m on board with believing Conti. Barry got railroaded in a complete farce of a trial – the government spent how much on him?

Bottom line is that Melky was dumb. I feel dumb having rooted for him.

Every bit of distrust I have for Larry Baer and the Spin Team just got further confirmation through all this crap. They make money by lying to us and making us pay to watch shiny objects with little substance, which only dilutes the (hopefully, oh God please let there be some) clean players worth rooting for.

Bonds *might* be able to hit for a decent average. No way he’d be able to hit for power. But I suppose that is all academic as I don’t think even the Giants would pretend they could whether the bad national PR they’d get by replacing Mekly with Barry, lol.

Offseason Goals
1. Sign Josh Hamilton to $100M 4 year deal. If he get’s hot, he’s fabulous.
OR
1. Sign Nick Swisher to $27M 4 year deal. Backup plan for Hamilton. Much cheaper and a good player as well as good heart in clubhouse.
2. Resign Marco Scutaro to $2M 1 year deal. We need him to play 2B.
3. Extend Tim Lincecum to $45M 3 year deal. If he plays good, it’s a bargain.
4. Use the rest of the money to sign a couple relievers and some bench help

It’s not like Bochy has never hit the pitcher 8th and he’s used Crawford near the top of the lineup when he was hot before (plus he’s our hottest bat outside of Posey right now).

I know this won’t happen, but I’d be willing to bet that if we ran this lineup out there 35 times over the rest of the season that we’d win 22 of those games. Then we just need to split the rest to have a punchers’ chance.

SFPhil

On Tuesday, the Giants pummeled the Nationals. Melky’s contribution? 1-4 with 1 run. 0-2 with RISP. In a 6-1 win.

That could have been Huff batting 3rd and we’d still have soundly beat the best team in the league – something we’ve only done once this season. 3 of those RBIs came from our first baseman, who has quietly come alive during these last few busy weeks. In fact, in August he’s got the best average on the team, batting an astonishing 1.63 over Melky. OPS is .284 over the Melk Men.

Belt’s batting is only overshadowed by Buster Posey’s 1.442 OPS in August. He has 6 home runs in 13 games and, in case anyone didn’t notice, he’s now the bonafide everyday catcher.

The worst hitter on the team right now? A two-time All Star and proven hitter who, unlike Melky, doesn’t have a problem knocking them out of AT&T.

There’s some positive spin for ya. But honestly, Melky wasn’t carrying this team. The pitching is carrying this team, and there’s enough hitters now to back them up. Even without Melky, this is still among the best all-around lineups the Giants have put out in 2 seasons. And probably the lineup with the most power, especially if we get some solid call ups or waiver claims.

Scooter McFinch

The Wisdom Cow says:
August 15th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

Hey Larry, wanna make some bucks?

Sell T-Shirts with a giant needle fiiled with white liquid on the front with “Got Melk?” written above it to Dodger fans.

@Andrew, it’s not that simple. Posey gets a raise. As does Pablo, Cain, MadBum and a few of the Bullpen pitchers. There is what to do with Wilson. Pence will cost at least $10mil next year.

Then there is one other issue. The fact the Giants have increased payroll from $90ish million to $130mil in two seasons. Giants finished 8 games out and like won’t do much better. Yeah, the current sellout streak started in 2010. But before that attendence was setting record lows for the ballpark.

SurfCity

“That could have been Huff batting 3rd and we’d still have soundly beat the best team in the league ”

No way Huff goes 1 for 4.

😉

Jay

Wise Cow @91

And I’m all in with your point of view. While the Giants are also victims to some extent, they benefit handsomely from their “enhanced” product.

We’re the ones who need our heads examined for going back to the trough over and over.

Sam

Domn,

Your an idiot.

Sam

Domn,

You’re an idiot

Sam

Andrew,

Huff makes 10 mil this year. Has a buy out for 2 mil after the season, so depending how they do the accounting savings of 8 mil.

Sam

ClutchUp says:
August 15th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
So Melky has Melkyy Jr. Who reports today said lives with his mom in NY and two daughters who live with their respective mothers. Melky needs a lot of guidance going forward in his career…
————–

He does have all that extra testosterone. What did you think would happen?

Slash78

@Andrew, I’ll put it like this. If ownership keeps the payroll at $130mil the the team will have about $14mil to work with if the following happens.

Rotation: Lincecum, Cain, Bum, Vogey, Zito
Bullpen: Lopez, Affeldt, Romo, Kontos, Mujares for less then $4mil, Wilson no-tendered and resigned at less then $5mil, one more making minimum

So basically $14mil on a LF with no Pagan, no Cabrera, discounted Wilson, no one making more the League minimum at 1B, 2B, SS, CF, Backup Catcher, 4th/5th OF and UT players. If they resign Pagan ($4mil minimum) and resign Scutaro or Theriot and/or some other cheap veterans you’re looking at $8mil at best for a LF.

And why should ownership shell out more money? The Giants finished poorly last season and will likely do again this season. So revenue will only go down. They are $40mil over what they won the WS with.

dj

Larry Baer: man life is good, another SO, more beers sold 30 dollars hot dogs and panda hats. it can’t get better than this. checks in the bank. where is my next vacation destination?

Atlas

The club knew right after Melky’s appeal was rejected a couple weeks after the break. They did the right thing trying to keep it quiet while they prepared for the inevitable. Of course, someone talked. Of course, the rumor made it to Twitter. Of course, Baggs saw it and got on the trail. The reason he ended up apologizing is because one, he didn’t bullet-proof his story and two, Melky seriously made him look like a jerk.

IMO, fans that are turning a negative focus towards the organization or Baggs are just letting their imaginations get carried away. The Giants played it by the books and Baggs wouldn’t roll over like that. Melky’s the one that made everyone from Baggs, to the team, to the fans, look bad.

Did Petaluma really advance because one of Hawaii’s baserunners missed 2B?

anthillunda2nd

Frankie Pegs should get his 1st taste of The Show. Still think Christian hasn’t gotten a fair shot. Not much playing time here for him though.

Now we know this was a $$$$$ grab by Melky. Lots of these guys its probably worth it to them still, pay-off is too huge .

Glad Blanco gets starting bid again.

Bapah

Speculator, you did good, dumbDomDim hasn’t been back since you put him in his place. Stupidity is its own worst enema.

Bapah

No, he missed 3rd base. And it wasn’t just that. I think they would have won anyway.

Bapah

And it wasn’t a coach that picked it up, it was the 2nd baseman.

Slash78

How is Pegeuro supposed to do anything? The guy has a .699 OPS in the PCL and it’s August. Belt had a 1.052 OPS through his minor league career and has struggled. And they call the Belt-supporters dumb and blindly faithful to their guy? WTF!

Sorry, Pegeuro hasn’t been anything close to a real prospect in years. He doesn’t even steal bags anymore so he’s not even close to Darren “the Bullet” Ford, Pinch-Runner specialist.

Pegeuro can’t hit and has never hit above Single-A. I don’t want to hear about tools. My parent’s garage is full of them and everytime I go their they have more dust on them. Because tools you can’t use are just junk that needs to be cleaned out.

DFA Pegeuro. Make USE of his roster spot.

Bapah

Listened to Gomes on the radio talk about Pet LL. Who was it? Irwin Corey, I think. The World’s Foremost Authority, yeah, that’s the ticket.

Bapah

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on, you know, was out all day. PT

anthillunda2nd

Numbers are iffy in certain situations, this would be one of them. PCL is kinda worthless. The other point that #’s don’t touch is the adaptation to coming off the bench.

Christian is killing it, has been killing. When he comes from Fresno he could take his car seat and put it right on the pine, to comfort the hard sit.

How does this guy vs. that guy adapt, to getting the scraps of the Bigs?

Atlas

Thanks Bapah. As I left work, a coworker was trying to explain there were some circumstances around the win, but they couldn’t remember the details.

The Tourist

Depressing day.

Feeling a bit better now, thanks to my friend Tito’s vodka.

Bapah

The Hawaii coach was a little bit of a AH, but it worked out in the end

Bapah

I’m turning orange, it must be midn…………………

Expat

I’ve been ruminating on this idea of fans being disappointed with Melky. On what level?

Morally – how can anyone call it a moral or ethical failing when he spreads his seed all over the country like a tomcat and no one cares. Not only is his failure to be a real father ignored, his day off to witness the birth of his latest illegitimate child is celebrated as “special”. Therefore, any moral outrage at his PED use is hollow.

Personally – he didn’t let fans down personally, that’s sentimentality. There is no personal relationship there. It’s a strict business transaction, pay for play, and he’s only “loved” for his performance on the field. Ask Aubrey Huff.

Strategically – a ha! This is a legitimate disappointment by the modern fan. We expect our players to produce for the team and that can take many forms. Cheating isn’t the issue for many fans – it’s cheating without the savvy to avoid detection that is unforgivable.

So I don’t really see much point in excessive hand-wringing. He was the fool who kept chewing his gum when the teacher turned around and now he has to spit it out. Sure it screws the team but it screws him the most. If you don’t like him now, fair enough, but don’t get sanctimonious about it.

Brandy Watson

Mr. Digruntled,

Funny way of trying to belittle me…saying the mad dog 20/20 should be kicking in. Hm, some people such as myself do not drink or have running conversations with themselves on a dumb blog under different names.

spartacus38

I have a gut feeling Blanco will do well.

Sharkalchemy

In a world of everything in moderation, is there a point in which these “PED’s” DO NOT have a negative effect on the body?

I believe so, though I’m not certain we’ve found it yet. Point is, once that’s established then the Cream and the Clear would not be fundamentally different than proper nutrition and hydration as “Performance Enhancers”.

I’ve felt since Congress first foray into this when they singled out Barry Bonds that their interest has been in part to suppress knowledge to become, in effect, super human.

paging Victor Conte…

al oha

I do drugs.

They enhance my performance on this Blog.

I take a combination of Viagra and Ex-Lax.

That way I can Come and Go, as I please.

Woj

@ spartacus38 says:
August 16th, 2012 at 12:20 am
I have a gut feeling Blanco will do well.

I’ll offer up a Benjamin that says you are wrong and Blanco it was his stats this year say he is. A slappy, K prone, weak grounder hitting .230 speed guy who plays good D. Blanco is NOT a division winning starting OF, period.

Timmy ought to keep his mouth shut about Cabrera or anyone else on the team. If you want the largest reason the Giants are not in first place right now, his name is Timothy Leroy Lincecum. He is having the worst season in history for a 2 timing Cy Young winner.

JC

Nady coming up prob and either Brett Pill, Francisco Peguero, or Justin Christian. Hopefully Nady gets called up. Pill prob will return back to the squad as well. Peguero and others prob we will see in September. Unless Giants r going to promote Brown straight from Double-A and see where he is at. Why not. Young top prospects guys can spark something. Look at Manny Machado with the O’s. His minor numbers were so-so and he has had instant success so far and provided spark to the O’s club, who are hot right now.

Giants need to get past this Cabrera thing, as hard as it is. Start believing in the other guys you have and you need the starting 8 to start producing consistently.

Crez

This season is starting to suck already. I don’t know why I bother with this board anymore.

I should stop reading the comments.

Thanks for all you do Alex and Carl, I’ll always read your posts.

I wish you commenting ninnies and whiners all the best in your roundabout all-one-person-internet-arguments.

To the people who frequent the board and comment in an attempt to have a decent sports discussion (you know who you are), I hope you all continue to be the good people you are. I’ve enjoyed a lot of your posts over the years.

But, you wont see me on here anymore, not that I posted a lot anyway. I can’t take the idiocy that is running rampant on here anymore. The comments are so bad, so mind numbing and redundant. I can’t take it. All these new people stirring the pot, go back to wherever you came from.

To kick us when we’re down is low. I’m done.

To Alex and Carl: the comments should either be disabled or have a character limit, as mine clearly could have used it.

Goodbye.

al oha

Re: the Petaluma vs. Nanakuli, Hawaii Little League Game.

I watched it. The ump ruled the runner missed 3rd base. He skimmed it in the same way Brandon Crawford hit the edge of first base, on his way to running to second base for a double, and the ump called him out. You know the one where he was later thrown out of the game.

Bapah is right, it probably didn’t make the difference but, you never know the score ended up close.

BOTH teams are deeply flawed. I have been to San Bernadino as an asst. Coach to the Hawaii State Champs 15 years ago. 12 Western States are represented w/ 2 teams from California (North and South). It is a very competitive tournament. Usually the winner, who represents the West at Williamsport Penn. is a very good team. I didn’t see Petaluma’s other games, but from what I did see, they don’t seem up to the level of past years.

Wish them Good Luck, anyways.

Slash78

Where does the Francisco Peguero love come from? And what happened to the horribly overhyped Chris Dominguez? 5 HR, 9 BB and 97 SO.

Right now the Giants have one and only one position playing prospect. That’s Gary Brown. Panik might develop into one. Ditto with Susac. Duvall has power, but not much else. He’s several years younger then Pill, but he’s still a 23 year old in a 20-22 y/o league and his 3B defense is bad.

Atlas

I figure the Francisco Peguero love comes from fans who suddenly find themselves in desperate need of a here, but not much to choose from.

Sabean must go befote he adds to his very long string of financial and ethical embarrassments

JD4SF

I became aware of the Melky suspension before my afternoon meeting. When I got home I told my “turned 11 2 days ago” grandson about Melky since his 2012 Giants favorites have been Buster, Melky, and White Shark.

Mark’s comment? “Cheating was a dumb thing for him to do.”
Close enough. A huge disappointment, to put it mildly, on so many levels.

My current focus is on where we are now as a TEAM, and how do we move forward successfully. We need a solid replacement, ASAP. The potential for Melky to return may not even be an issue, so I’m not going to worry about it now. Just like we cowboyed up when Pablo or others went on the DL, we regroup and do the same now. I actually think it may be easier to move forward due to the strong TEAM chemistry we’ve been noticing recently.

We had yesterday with a lineup that looked pretty impressive. Now we need a different lineup.

We have talent on this team. We made it to 1st place without Freddy, Wilson, Moto, and had players like Pablo on and off the DL. We added Scutaro and Pence, who should be good contributors. Belt is currently contributing well. Crawford is hitting better than predicted and continues to improve on D. Others are doing pretty well with their bats and on the field. All subject to change, but we managed to make it to the top even with the prior changes and players not in the lineup for one reason or another.

Without Melky’s offense and defense it won’t be as easy the rest of the season, but I think we still have a good shot at post season. Much will depend on how well the TEAM chemistry is able to carry the Giants forward with other players – and someone new – contributing solid baseball every game.

I finally got to watch the game recorded. Our guys looked a bit rattled in the game, but more settled toward the end. We had missed opportunity against a very tough team and came close to a late comeback. I was glad to see Blanco earn some confidence again at the plate. If he can fire up again, that could be huge for us regardless of the new additions.

Tomorrow is another day. We regroup, move on to the next game and focus on the win.

goodsam72

thank you jd4sf……nice post recap of a day I’ll be happy to move on from – was thinking about Marty Laurie’s comments tonight – about baseball’s stories being revealed over the course of a season. That we never know what unfolds in the next chapter and it’s why we stay around for 162. Wonder what Marty’s date of Aug 20th will reveal now ??? this is the day he had picked as the “gel date” – know what we will have for the stretch run – I only hope now that we will have one !

Mavo

All this talk about being “disappointed” in Melky and he was a “good teammate”!! BS!! I am mad as hell at all these pampered rich ballplayers that cheat and make a mockery of the game I have loved all my life!! I felt betrayed as Barry was obliterating my idol’s HR records too. It has gotten to the point we can’t tell what is real and what is drug enhanced!! I am sure I’d have been a hell of a player too at 27 while quadrupling my testosterone levels! I am sick of this steroid crap and all who have cheated my game. I hope the Giants, if they do make it into the playoffs, take the high road and tell Melky to take a hike when he is off his suspension. And I cannot believe they are really considering bringing the biggest cheater of all G Mota back!! Release the cheat and be done with it… set a damn example for other teams … show some class!!

I am NOT merely disappointed in Melky … I feel like a sucker who was taken for a ride … just like I did the day I saw Barry hit number 60 and wondered out loud if any of this was REAL…. it sadly was NOT!! How long would Willie Mays have played and how many HRs would he have put up if he had this crap?

Baseball needs to come down HARD on this problem … not the way it has been done so far. Institute blood testing whether the union likes it or not. Then ban these guys for a year first offense AND void any contract that they are under at the time. Then ban them for a lifetime on 2nd offense. Maybe then idiots like Melky will not try to make it to the big payday, the big kill, by risking the testing program!!

A sad day for all baseball fans today!!!

How is that for using exclamations .. sue me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My first few minutes of “Melky suspended” thoughts weren’t appropriate language to share in a public forum. 😉

Then I moved on, just as the TEAM needs to move on.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Giants address moving forward with player shuffles and potential new faces. Hopefully within a few days we’ll be back to having solid contributors in our lineup and it is just a matter of how to arrange them for the best productivity.

al oha

Bud Selig is afraid to implement stricter guidelines and more elaborate blood testing, because of the number of Star players and players in general, may expose a rampant problem that is larger than anyone could imagine.

Victor Conte said, on the show with Jim Cozimer, that the percent of Testosterone currently acceptable by MLB, is 3 times the normal amount. A player’s Test is deemed Positive if it is 4 times the normal level. He says the Synthetic Testosterone used currently by many athletes in all Sports can be applied after a game and if tested the Next Day, hours later, will be at an acceptable level by then.

He said that if Major League Baseball was REALLY serious about detecting Synthetic Testosterone it would use a Test that is currently available AND cost the same as the current ineffective Test.

So, it is obvious that Bud Selig, the Owners, and the Players’ Union have NO REAL INTEREST IN RIDDING THIS PROBLEM FROM MLB.

For the Public to concentrate their Ire on a few who were “chosen” to represent the Past’s PED users (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, etc.) because they were the most high profile, is simplistic, naive, and worse, swallowing Selig’s PR machine’s B.S.-bait,…….. hook, line and sinker.

Melky Cabrera, coming from modest (at best) means in the Dominican Republic, and treading in an unremarkable Professional Baseball Career, is enticed with taking a substance that other players were taking and getting away with. He sees them, not only getting away with it, but prospering with better stat numbers and rewarded with bigger multi-year Contracts. Very hard to resist that kind of Temptation. A concrete Path to guaranteeing winning the Lottery, for a person of that background. Fame and Fortune. Well worth the risk for them.

Melky’s biggest mistake of making that initial choice is debatable, when so many others have gotten away with it. His biggest crime was Getting Caught.

Bud Selig should be held responsible for an ERA of P.E.D.’s in Baseball. Certain players like BB25 and Clemens should go into the Hall of Fame with a symbol stamped by their name:
SEPEDE (Selig-Enabled Performance Enhancing Drug Era)

We are still in the MIDST of that ERA.

JD4SF

On the MLB implementation of stricter drug testing, I’d think the easiest would be to announce a date in the future – like the start of the next ST – where new enforcement would be in place. That gives players ample time to NOT use drugs, and have the off-season to focus more on improving their actual capabilities without relying on chemical aids.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some stats fall across MLB.

I also suspect nastier consequences would have an impact.

rodbecksmustache

One thing’s for sure: The color of my underwear on game day has, without question, been proven to be unrelated to the Giants’ success.

#firemelky

The Oracle

The Peguero love comes only from Foothills and all the other names he posts under.

No Longer Long Suffering Giants Fan

Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good. Imagine if Melky’s agent went for the 3 year $27 million deal the Giants offered, or if Timmy agreed to the 5 year $100 deal he was offered? Whew!

Lefty

No Longer: Agreed. The ONLY good thing I can say for Melky right now is that he and his agent didn’t dupe the Giants into an extension during the couple weeks that they knew what was coming but the team didn’t yet. It could have happened, and then we’d be stuck with an expensive cheater who may not be anything special without the PEDs.

As for Timmy–yeah. I suspect he will never be offered a deal, with the Giants or anyone else, that’s anywhere close to what the Giants offered him last winter. Even if he somehow bounces back next year to Cy Young form, how long could you trust it?

Two different players, two decisions, same outcome–their own stupidity or pride cost them tens of millions of dollars. I don’t feel the slightest bit of sympathy for either of them.

PitchingPitchingPitching

While you all talk about Melkey and the hole it has left, the Giants pitching has been not very good with the exception of a few well pitched games.

Timmy and his 5+ $22M ERA will be that for the rest of the year.
Zito people claim he is pitching better than ever yet his ERA 4.29 which is well below league average

Matt Cain has had 5 quality starts of 6 innings of more and a <4 ERA in his last 10 starts since the NoNo. Batters in he last 5 games are hitting over 289 with a 333 OBP.

Madbum has had 6 quality starts of a <4ERA in his last 10 games.

PitchingPitchingPitching

While you all talk about Melkey and the hole it has left, the Giants pitching has been not very good with the exception of a few well pitched games. Compare how the starters have done for quality starts. A quality start is 6 innings or more and a below league average ERA of 3.99. anything else is below average. The Giants have had 25 quality starts by this criteria and are 26 and 24 in that period.

Timmy and his 5+ $22M ERA will be that for the rest of the year. He has had 5 starts in which a 4.00 era or less era was achieved.

Zito people claim he is pitching better than ever yet his ERA 4.29 which is well below league average and on pace for his 5th worst ERA. Just so happens this would be his third best with the Giants. He has had 4 starts in his last 10 games in which he had a 4.00 ERA or less.

Matt Cain has had 4 quality starts of 6 innings of more and a <4 ERA in his last 10 starts since the NoNo. Batters in the last 5 games are hitting over 289 with a 333 OBP.

Madbum has had 6 quality starts of a <4ERA in his last 10 games.

Ryan Vogelsong same stats as Madbum 6 quality starts.

Since the league average for ERA is just under a 4.00 era, that is your quality start as a benchmark for winning and losing. Depending on your teams hitting you are likely at 500 ball. The Giants have had 25 quality starts in their past 50 games. They are 26 and 24 which basically is Cain 2 runs in 5 innings almost quality start if not for innings pitched.

This 6 innings of <4 ERA allows for the Bull Pen to come in and be average for the save or win.

Scooter McFinch

Who wouldn’t love a ball player in SF with a name like Francisco? Experience the love. They should try to sign Ben Francisco as well.

Where’s your sense of humor Oracle? Must be tough telling people their destiny so dourly.

Take Al Oha and his Viagra/Ex Lax comment –> major thin ice here.

===

On a serious note, Slash pulled out the stats for us. Peguero has a 700 ops in AAA. He has 5 hrs. 13 BBs and 0 SB. He was tabbed as 5 tool talent. Injuries have set him back a bit. But over the last month he’s been hitting for a high average and has about a 14-15 game hitting streak going.

Gary Brown’s hot streak came to an end a while ago. He’s at .280.

So if you want profer a dour prediction – the minor leagues won’t be of any help. Sabean will pull a rabbit out of the waiver hat. I suppose Cody Ross is possible.

Hitman

All of the Gnat wins with the juicer in the lineup should go into the loss column! Heh,heh,heh!!!

Hitman

Hey, how is the Pence thing working out? Heh,heh,heh!!!

al oha

C’mon, do you really think Sabean, Baer, and Bochy never knew about Melky testing positive earlier than yesterday?

They didn’t know, but Baggs, Cain, Melky, his agent, League officials, they all did? They didn’t get just a little curious when Baggs tweeted it? Baggs wasn’t interrogated by them or by some other Team Official?

They knew. Thus the low ball offer and agreement to “wait”, completely staged for public consumption. Curious how Bochy sits and rests various players on a rotational basis, but he didn’t rest Melky. The object was to milk every inning out of him and win as many games possible, on borrowed time, bought by an appeal process, but they knew the inevitable was coming.

You guys must get dizzy swallowing so much SPIN.

al oha

There was only ONE PLAYER who didn’t get a rotational day off.

You don’t need a rest if your Season is about to be over.

Hitman

Very nice al oha!

Lefty

al oha: I agree with your take 100%. I think a lot of people knew and that they were trying to get through the trade deadline, Pablo’s injury, and the 20 games in a row before the hammer came down. They almost made it–except for the 20th game.

I guess (?) they were entitled to that time under “due process.” I can’t fault them for going out and getting Pence like they did, either. At the time, it seemed like they needed another bat, anyway. Now it seems incredibly prudent, not only for this season but next.

Lefty

We shouldn’t kid ourselves, either. There is no one in the minors or on the waiver wire who can possibly fill the hole left by Melky Cabrera. If the Giants have any hope to salvage the season, it will be because the players currently on the roster step it up. And as “Pitching…” noted, that step up needs to start with the pitching.

The pitching, on paper, is good enough. In reality, it hasn’t been. They got four runs yesterday off Strasburg and the Nats’ bullpen even without Melky. That should have been enough. But it wasn’t.

choyboy0724

Giants have 13 games remaining against above .500 teams
Dodgers have 23 games remaining against above .500 teams

Keep That in mind.

al oha

Why IS the Giants’ Farm System so totally DEVOID of upcoming potential Major League Talent?

When IS the last time an Outfielder was drafted, developed, and played in San Francisco?

There was a time when the Giants supplied the League with Outfielders. ie. Alous, Foster, Kingman, Matthews, Maddox, etc.

Hitman

al oha is on a roll this morning! Heh,heh,heh!!

choyboy0724

Hitman… You need to get a life and stop trolling on this blog. Stop living in your parents basement and make something of yourself.

Hitman

@169: If you can’t run with the big dogs boy, stay on the porch!!! Heh,heh,heh!!

choyboy0724

Hitman… I notice you didn’t deny anything I said.

al oha

It is now, not only preferable, but IMPERATIVE, that Gregor Blanco, emerges from his slump and become the sparkplug he showed signs of out of Spring Training and in May.

He showed signs of life, yesterday. He has the ability.

Plus Bochy may have to show us all his ability to bring out the confidence of a young guy into the Majors, by calling up Gary Brown and a RH Pitcher for the BullPen, like Hembree. They may not be able to wait until Sept. 1. Besides, if they do show that they can contribute in spot innings, then they would be eligible for the Post Season.

dgg

Hunter Pence: “It happened, and now we move on. I know the program and I know they test us, and if we test positive we get a suspension. That’s what happened. And now we play with what we’ve got.”

=========

Although I like Pence’s straightfoward, no-nonsense take on things, some things need to change for “playing with what we’ve got” to be successful moving forward from the Melky part of the Giants season. Most of all, Tim needs to pick the team up. He needed to do that yesterday, and did not. Tim pitching like 1st half Tim made yesterday even worse.

instant karma

Next yr Melky goes back to being a .265 hitter with about 8 homers. Save your money.

3King

But bonds will be voted out of the hall

Even though steroids is rampant everywhere

Giants lead the charge!

2 this year, whos next

SFGfan

Getting Pence helps quite a bit in absorbing this blow. Melky after 50 days will be nowhere the same player, if the Giants even want him back. As well, Giants need to move on Lincecum and get what they can for him. $22 million for next year is too much, for what he’s giving them. Trading Tim was unthinkable a year ago, but as Tim and dad intimated earlier, this is a business. Tim’s not cutting it. He’s had all year to figure it out. Giants really dodged a bullet when Tim & Co. got too greedy. Getting a dependable RH starter who can give us .500 results, and a decent LF who can bat .280 with good defense and average power (10-15 HR) will more than balance the lost of these two.

3King

Bye melky

Dont bring that man back ever

Stabbing giants fans in the back

Crushing the hearts of all giants kids everywhere

Forget mota too. If u get caught u should b banned

Bapah

We still have a team to follow and the chances are still good they can go all of the way. Let’s show support and watch today on the tube.

(Re-posting because my orginal is awaiting moderation because of an attempt to bypass filter)

A few thoughts…

* Before I hit the “oh no!” button, I want to see how this team responds in San Diego (who is playing well) and against the Dodgers. If the Giants win the LA series…after a good showing in SD…then that tells me these guys are sucking it up and going for it.

* This is going to generate some disagreements…but if Buster/Matt/Madison…and perhaps Hunter…gives the thumbs up, then I am all for Melky being re-signed next year at a salary that is Giants-friendly and shows Melky “some” respect.

If you look at Melky’s career stats, this season’s RBI totals aren’t some spike on his baseball card (88 RBIs for NYY). His HR stats for this year aren’t either (13 for NYY, 18 for KC). One could wonder if his 200 hits season in KC was a fluke, but we’re talking singles/doubles here. Tolbert was guessing a .280 hitter without PEDs, but would you take a hustling .280 hitter with a cannon arm for your LF? Once again…only if the core players buy off on this.

You can bet the ranch that if the Giants don’t re-sign him, Melky is the starting LF for the Dodgers next year. That alone is motivation to see if this can somehow work for 2013.

When, years from now, research shows PEDs only enhanced performance through the placebo effect on increased confidence. Wouldn’t that be funny?

DomnVinsDad

@ Speculator #87 – I didn’t say anything about a hitting title. Just that Timmy said Melky was their best hitter, and Sam chose a simple stat like batting average to prove his point. Now, I sure you have been around the game long enough to know there is more to hitting than just batting average, right?

@ Sam #113 – Funny how when people have no argument, they resort to name-calling. Kind of reminds me of how elementary school kids handle their arguments.

@bapah #124 – I hadn’t been back because I need to go to bed at a reasonable hour because I have this thing called work that I need to get up for early in the morning. And reading what you have to say, I thought you were above name-calling.

All that being said, some of you need to turn your sarcasm meters on. “Conspiracy theorists, discuss.” Jeez…

Bapah

“And il take a bigger swath with me
Then any fan”

Huh? Same old 3King. He and Hitman make about the same sense.

-Then? Then what? Oh, you meant thAn, wait it still doesn’t make sense.
-il, not sure about this one, I’ll assume I’ll. There’s a certain symmetry to it.
-Swath, OK I give up. Swath= noun
1.the space covered by the stroke of a scythe or the cut of a mowing machine.
2.the piece or strip so cut.
3.a line or ridge of grass, grain, or the like, cut and thrown together by a scythe or mowing machine.
4.a strip, belt, or long and relatively narrow extent of anything.

Hmmmm, probably makes sense to him.

snapdaddy

3King

seriously ??? crushing the hearts of all giants kids??

drama much ??

pack your bags now…sheesh !!

MLBFAN36

Clay Hensley tested positive in the minors in 2005 for steroids and I read an article where it has Hensley making comments about the cabrera situation and said that you never can understand what a guy is thinking. Really Clay? lol. Bring up Gary Brown!

People have said the penalties need to be increased, full season, lifetime ban, that kind of thing.

Screw that. Castration. There’s a deterrent.

Bapah

Cow,
Unfortunately, or fortunately, some steroids already do that. Haven’t seen it deter much.

Scooter McFinch

‘All that being said, some of you need to turn your sarcasm meters on. “Conspiracy theorists, discuss.” Jeez…’

Yep. Have a sense of humor peeps. I mean look at the Wisdom Cow, he/she is kind of bat guano crazy, but he/she has a terrific sense of humor so he/she’s always alright with me.

It’s the dour folk that should go on vay-kay. You know who you are 😉

Scooter McFinch

Gary Brown could probably deliver more packages than Gregor Blanco.

Discuss.

Obrother

Many are pi*sed at Melky but if Conti can be believed and 50% of players are using short half life testosterone during the season or off season the fact that Melky got caught might actually be a good thing for baseball because if so many players are using the short acting cream knowing if they get tested the next day they will be within the. Normal range. Melky probably made the mistake of using it after an extra in ing night came followed by an early day game. Didn’t have a good advisor. I’m not saying it was ok but I’m saying this is just the tip of the iceberg. I think people should give Melky a pass only because he’s probably just one in hundreds. I think all of baseball might be tainted and if your a player and you see many using and putting up great numbers how do you level the playing field. If Conti is right baseball need to use the test that picks up testosterone after use for two weeks, not 8 hours. Why don’t they? Probably because they know that a large number of players are using and the game of baseball would likely cease to down the tubes.

Bapah

Foot,
Too early, let the kid work into it. Give him a short dose in Sept. then back to the salt mines.

El Lobo

Don’t have the stomach to go back and read comments, but I’ll say this: this team begins and ends with the starting rotation. If those 5 guys can return to form, the Giants have a shot. If not, they don’t, with or without Melky. If you didn’t hear it, I’d suggest you listen to the Romo interview on Murph & Mac this morning. These guys are a team, are going to get charged up and are going to do everything they can to get back to the post season. Pitching first, then defense, then hitting. Time for the rotation to lead, the bullpen to secure wins and the position players to play smart baseball.

…scotch

“Bud Selig should be held responsible for an ERA of P.E.D.’s in Baseball…” …Al Oha

Comeon Bud’s being punished by being “forced” to accept a $20,000,000 yearly salary!

This is all a farce…pure & simple!

Player agents-Players Union-Selig-MacGowan-et al…Massive enablers that turn a blind eye for profit…why is anybody ever surprised.

Clean up the problem…they’d all say WHY.

The answer, let ’em all juice & end the hypocracy!

~Victor Conti for commissioner~

pacman68

What people need to realize is.

— Tim can’t pick the team up cause he is lost this season. He just doesn’t have it. Maybe he finds it next year but who knows?

— This team won’t be able to win without Melky. We are one game behind the Dodgers with Melky and I don’t see us winning the West. I’m not a Doom and Gloomer. I’m just being honest.

— Giants won’t bring up Gary Brown cause it’s not how they operate.

— Gary Brown should be here ASAP in my mind. He’s going to offer you the same thing that Peg, Christian, Pill and anyone else. Giants have nobody in the minors. NOBODY. Bring up Brown and say WTF. Is he the answer…no…but It can’t hurt. Take the gloves off.

— Bochy won’t lead this team to the playoffs. He just won’t.

— I hope the Giants get Ross but he’s not the answer either. It would be a nice pick me up though. A fan favorite coming back to help.

Watched Tue and Wed archived games back to back last night…should’ve quit with the first one, sheesh.

One thing I don’t get: people have been saying Melky would be eligible to play in the postseason (minus the first 5 games), if we somehow make it there without him.

But isn’t the postseason roster based on the 25-man active before Sept callups? Melky can’t be on that, I assume, so how would the postseason thing work?

pacman68

Keep’n It Real

Somebody tweeted yesterday that the Giants are looking into Ross.

I hope Sabean kicks the tires on Ross cause this team needs an energy boost.

pacman68

The more I think about Brown … the more I want to see him ASAP. And you never know. Harper wasn’t tearing up the minors when Nats brought him up. They brought him up for his energy cause the fans and team needed a jolt.

Gary Brown and Hembree are the Jolt the Giants need. And if they sign Ross they could have a chance.

They have to do it TODAY!

PBryan

August is a tough month for baseball and does not always represent how it will all turn out. I recall August 2010 being a dog for the Giants. I think they went 13-15 and finished the month 5 games behind the Padres, who seemed invincible at the time. I just looked it up and we were 72-60 on the 30th. The “Fire Everybody” posts flowed freely on this blog. The sky was falling.

Then of course September 2010 was a whole new month, as was October… I beleive the Cardinals went through a similar loop last year.

By September 1st the Melky stuff should be well behind us and we can go from there. If the Giants can manage .500 the rest of this August they’ll be in the same place they were in 2010, no matter what the west-coast Yankees, er, Dodgers do, and what really matters in baseball these days is how contending teams do in September. Go Giants, we’re still with you.

dj

>>The government should step in

the government ? those crooks in DC want cash and the mlb owners are pumping cash into their election campaigns. unfortunately, we can’t get rid of those crooks bcuz people keep voting for the same crooks all the time.

We will know soon if the g’s are serious bcuz Mota is working with the g’s minor team in AZ . I believe Mota is eligible to come back soon. I don’t know the exact date but soon.

Bay Area Moose

Sign Ross?? Damnit if they sign Miguel Cabrera they can have a chance!!!!

(Since we are living in a hypothetical world where we can sign players who are already on other teams, why go for Ross, go for the big guns!!!!)

Keep’n It Real

@pacman68

I hope so! The Red Sox (13.5 back) are toast.

Ross is Boss (again…I hope)

Hitman

After pouring over all of the posts, it appears that none of you know anything about baseball So quit pretending and don’t give up your day jobs, that is if any of you really work!! Heh,heh,heh!!!

Adam

At least we can spell “poring”. Pour out your spleen somewhere else.

Hitman

I will admit that there is some hope for the Gnats since they will be playing the halo’s and the Gnats are good at beating up sub 500 teams! Heh,heh,heh!!!

Atlas

Sabean knew a couple weeks after Melky got the call. The questions are when did Melky first get the call and who did Sabean decided to tell when he found out. The proper thing to do would have been to keep it as quiet as possible (which they basically did). Don’t tell Bochy or any of the coaches and ESPECIALLY don’t tell any of the players. A clerical passerby probably got the rumor started. 😉

Bapah

Here’s one that’s hard to swallow (or believe):

“Alfonso Soriano told Theo Epstein & Co. that he would not accept a trade to the Giants when San Francisco showed interest in him prior to the July 31st deadline. The club may have renewed interest in the veteran after Melky Cabrera was hit with a 50-game suspension, but the Cubs outfielder says that he still doesn’t think that the Giants would be a good fit for him, writes Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune. ‘San Francisco is not good weather to play in. It’s on the West Coast and I’ve never played on the West Coast.'”

Stupid, we don’t need.

FantasyLandGiants

Listen to all those whining and complaining makes a true sports fan want to puke.

You have been enabling and cheering on this organization for 50+ years and been moaning about not getting good players.

your cheap bleepin organization is all smoke and mirrors. Your won a title not on the merits of an original roster, much like how the rest of baseball works and the most essential elements of your title year were from: cody ross, edgar renteria, and juan Uribe who are no longer on the team…..tells you how pathetically lucky your team is in one given fluke year.

then you have and organization also that is cheap on money so they have to get second hand players and buy time for contracts. So in the offseason this year…while the true contenders were picking up the real impact players like pujols and fielder and the like…

you were stuck with fringe to good players like melky cabrera and then you started bragging how great he was wearing you melky outfits while sipping the coolaide and voting him in the all star game due to your homer like tendencies.

then you proceed to find out that he’s been a complete cheater and scam as a player and now everyone is going to act like ” we need to move on without him”

well sorry fans…..cabrera helped you cheat your way into this pennant race….it’s not like you can just wipe away over 110 games that set you up for a division or wild card race.

you can’t seriously be that delusional.

you are the most moronic fans in baseball …..all this giant’s excitement crap is mired an organization that sold everyone a felon in bonds and everyone from the fans to the homer announcers to the players all knew full well the scam this team was about.

you know what’s the saddest thing of all too about bonds and the giants.

even after he severely scared this team:

fans still cheer him and welcome him back and allow him to join in on team events and functions and the owners all sit and talk to him during games when he’s there.

Yea I know ….cabrera is just been a one year player….but the facts are….

a bad person is a bad person

you shouldn’t be even near your old ball park much less be welcomed back after you cheated the sport and your team

Hitman

@214: Spot on, spot on!! Very nice!!

Woj

Who would trade for Timmy right now? The rest of the league sees ESPN And Fox Sports and they can see 89 mph, 88 mph, 90 mph flash up on the board on Timmy fastballs in the second inning. They can see the long haired guy owns a 5.5 ERA and at times has no clue where the ball is going. Why would any team trade anything of value for a $22M short term-rental in 2013 that wins 1/4 of his games and has fatigue and confidence issues? Timmy isn’t delivering right now for the Giants when he’s needed most so why would a team trade even a good prospect for a guy that’s unreliable and has lost 4 mph on his fastball?

Wake up, we are stuck with Timmy through next year and then he hits the FA market with a 5+ ERA. Thank goodness he didn’t take that 5 year $100M Cain like deal.

To get draft compensation from one these guys, you have to make a ‘qualifying offer’.

Are the Giants going to get hosed on draft compensation as well??

man o man, it keeps gettin’ better

Foothills Ryan

Woj,

The Mariners. Send Timmy and a bunch of money and try to get a decent pitching prospect. Aim for James Paxton

3KINGS

i saw a little leaguer in line at starbucks an hour ago

and all i could think was his athletes are still roided up just like my bash brothers…want to make the bigs kid, learn about roids

30 years and nothing, zero has changed, its only gotten worse….

WHAT A SHAM….

I WOULD RATHER GO 0-162 THE CLEAN WAY

then get 1 win by cheating…. F U BUD SELIG, F U BASEBALL

3KINGS

funny how it is always spun back to BB25, the king Bonds

but in reality its Selig and MLB UNION

steroids = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

f u baseballl

2 year ban for infraction, lifetime for 2

Get a Grip

There will be no new players coming to the Giants. No Ross. No Soriano. No nobody.

Yesterday, the landscape changed from “you want our washed-up utility infielder? Give us a third-rate prospect and good day to you” to “You really NEED an outfielder, don’t you? Bend over and let me do unspeakable things to you while I think about it.”

That’s how the world works. You might as well pretend the Marlins will take Zito in exchange for Stanton if you’re going to be as delusional as you’re being here.

Bonds was a great player, a HOF player before roids . Bonds should have won 4 MVP awards but reporters gave 1 to Pendelton ? Pendelton an MVP ?

Melky is a nobody or so so player at best til this season

3KINGS

uncle radnich said he doesn’t believe the giants have a steroid problem

lol….what?

benito
fp
bonds
guillen
mota
melky
estallella

etc, etc,,,,please…..THE A’S AND GIANTS BUILT THE STEROID ERA

sd1129

Has Chris Lincecum been out on the airwaves lately? Curious to see what his take is right now..

3KINGS

TIME FOR THE GIANTS TO CHANGE THE ENTIRE GAME INDUSTRY WIDE

they have the power to get rid of steroids from baseball….

i know they can do it

Woj

@Foothills Ryan

ok, I can still see Seattle pining for Timmy. Ship him up there in the offseason and get a good ML ready hitter or pitcher from the Mariners. As amazing as it sounds, if Hacker had made all of Timmy’s starts I think the team would have been better off.

You cannot pretend you are a pennant winning threat when 2/5 of your rotation is slowball tossing Zito and the guy who has morphed into Zito II.

Get a Grip

3KINGS, since you’re clearly still living in the 1950’s, can you tell us if the world was black and white back then, or did the photos from that era have some Instagram filter or something?

karma.com

@FantasyLandGiants

We all know you were the same loser as yesterday, under a different name.

You must have many, many issues to go on a blog like this and purposely spew out verbiage that adds no value…except trying to make you feel better about yourself. Did no one like you as a kid? Did the family dog get too much enjoyment from your leg? Did your girlfriend cheat on you with your best friend? Did your best friend rebuff your attempts to “cuddle”?

People like you are at the very bottom of the karma food chain. You wonder why you get so many bad things happening to you; yet you have no problem doing what you are doing here today.

Do me a favor…

The next time something goes bad for you, I want you to remember your actions from yesterday and today. Actions like this…and that mentality that goes along with it…is why you are the loser that you are. It is called “karma”. Perhaps if you started showing some self-control and keeping these actions to yourself…there might be hope for you. If not, you should embrace the bad things coming your way because you’ve earned them!

Wild Bill

pacman68

How do you explain the Reds? They were hovering at .500 and now are 69-46! for the season. They lose their best hitter in Votto yet are playing their best ball of the season. Look at their line-up. The averages are .243, .228, .296, .266,.243, .157 (Votto’s replacement), .277.

The problem facing the Giants right now isn’t the line-up. It’s the pitching staff. The bullpen isn’t as strong as it’s been in the last two years and Lincecum’s record is just killing us.

We have to beat the sub .500 teams we will be playing and play .500 ball against the good teams and we still should be able to make the playoffs.

wilriv21

It is a day later and no change – Melky Cabrera is still a doosh bag. The one player who can really pick up the slack from the loss of the doosh bag would be an effective and productive Tim Lincecum.

millions of fans have been cheering a cheater to first and an asg win….

thanks giants, thanks baseball….

what a joke, im keeping my kids away from this steroid crap

and don’t tell me melky is coming back……

blind sheep will always be blind

Scooter McFinch

Correct a-mundo Wild Bill.

Pitching dominates and the Giants pitching longer dominates. The Nats lineup is good, but not great. Their pitching way trumps the Giants. Like you said, the Reds staff is stellar too. Latos and Cueto are killing it. And I gather guys like Leake and Bailey are getting it done. Their bullpen is lights out though. And the Nat’s feature an excellent back end also.

This just in. Zach Wheeler will not be a part of the rotation next year.

But maybe Kickham or Heston can help. — > this is why they need to get a guy with upside like James Paxton of Seattle.

3KINGS

here’s the Giants memo

we forgive him, what? we didn’t see anything…

i bet almost all of mlb players are juicing something, i bet you anything

Atlas

In light Tim’s predicament (and Zito’s past few years), it’s too bad we’ve never had the pieces to trade for King Felix. The M’s trade all their good stuff away.

Matthew

3rdKing- nope, you’re not alone.

I’m extremely cynical still today. It’s turning out to be the dirty sport we silently have been fearing as more evidence continues to come out. And through whatever-stupidity, bad luck, conspiracy over Bonds hatred, ostrich management and ownership – our team is branded the poster child for cheating…and we’re forced to wear it. We’re under barrage by shallow and righteous “fans” and trolls, and their ain’t much we can say.

Many are trying to forge through by debating Gary Brown, Cody Ross, et al. Whatever.

The little voice inside my head says ” don’t look back, you can never look back….” Because if we happen to win the division, can you imagine what the media, other team fans and trolls will be like? and we will have to ask ourselves “is this division win tainted?” and then justify with “but others are cheating and not getting caught” , which is a defense of losers.

This is sad. I appreciate Melky’s candor in admitting he cheated. At least that is commendable, rather than the Braun method. A shallow appreciation, to be sure.

And I sit here taking body shots from Hit Man and FantasyLand and other idiots who somehow gain their only pleasure in life from the misery of others.. The Schaedenfeude Kings… Great. And there’s little we can say in defense

There’s no Santa Claus Virginia.. You knew that, so don’t give me that “I’m shocked and surprised” look. Grow up and get over it. That’s life, Girl.

Thanks for your general stupidity, Melky. Thanks for your sham of a league, Bud. Thanks for getting hot, Dodgers. Thanks for losing all of your talents at once, Tim.

The great irony of the American Revolution part II and the mass beheadings of the 1% was not that the economic elite had strangled the middle class until they found they had no other option, it was that the violence and beheadings did not start until a single major league baseball suspension for PEDs occurred in San Francisco, of all places. The elite, attempting to continue a facade of control and enforcement, totally lost control of the country.

To those watching from other countries, the entire situation was unbelievable. Americans had put up with lies and thieves for decades. They allowed BP to destroy the Gulf and sat back watching absurd commercials for years afterwards about how improved the tourist industry had become in the region. They sat back as their medical and educational systems collapsed under the corruption and ineptitude of their systems. They watched Goldman Sachs destroy Wall Street twice, AND PAID THEM FOR IT AFTERWARDS both times. Yet, one non-national baseball player got suspended for PED usage, and the entire house of cards caved in.

The skulls of many of the 1% elitists still sit atop spikes outside AT&T park to this day as a reminder.

Woj

I would like to see Matt Kemp heavily tested. The guy goes from a James Loney twin to the best player in the NL overnight?? Show me and other Giants fans that he’s PED clean. I don’t believe he is.

I know the cynics will say that the Giants front office doesn’t care, but I have to believe (well, want to believe) that they are tired of being known as the marquee team for PED users.

There’s no way they re-sign Melky next year. I think the fan backlash will be too great. Baer’s email box is being flooded right now with angry ticket holders telling him enough is enough.

(Oh and by the way, he won’t even be able to play until 5 games after the season starts.. not exactly the way you want to come out of spring training).

Melky is done as a Giant.

wilriv21

Get a Grip: Doubt little Timmie was juicing but rather hitting the herb. If little Timmie does not pick up his game or the Giants decide to go with the big 3 (Bummy/Cainer/Vogey) for the playoffs (playoffs? playoffs? Did you say playoffs?) possibly little Timmie can close?

None of this crap flies in the independant nation of Northern California when I’m in charge!

3KINGS

if we do make the playoffs, its because we cheated

we should get hit with losses or something….

we do not deserve the playoffs

dgg

Thanks for posting the fangraphs link, Foothills Scooter. Here’s the part I found most interesting:

“Other outfielders on teams out of contention, or soon to be out of contention, who could be possible fits in San Francisco include DENARD SPAN of the Twins, CODY ROSS of the Red Sox (and, of course, Giants 2010 postseason hero), sCOTT HAIRSTON of the Mets, and JUAN PIERRE of the Phillies. It’s unclear (to me) if any of these players passed through waivers, making them available as trade pieces between now and August 31. All would be upgrades over Blanco/Christian/Pill. The question, of course, is whether any are available and if so, at what price?”

=========

Here’s the part I found most encouraging, because it concerns Posey, Belt, and Scutaro whom we’ve already got (plus Pence, and Sandoval’s back with patience at the plate):

“Losing Cabrera puts the Giants in a tough spot just as their offense was kicking into high gear. In the last 14 days, the Giants lead the majors with 4.7 WAR and are third with a 122 wRC+. Much of that is due to Posey’s second half surge, Belt’s hot streak, and Scutaro’s arrival. But Cabrera played a big part of that, too, as he has in the Giants’ offense all season. The Giants need to think creatively how best to use their available players to fill in the gap. Or they can try acquire a player from a non-contending team. Or both. But the Giants must act quickly because time is ticking on the 2012 season.”

Melky = Willie Mac Winner + MVP

If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.

Kudos to Melky for doing everything he could to help the Giants win games. Maybe his motives were self-serving, maybe he was playing for a contract, but his success helped the team win.

Now it’s time for other guys to pick up the slack and do their job to help us win. Posey, Panda, Pence – stop being selfish. Be a team player and start shooting up. We need you now more than ever before the Dodgers run away with this thing.

Lefty

Foothills: Interesting question about the free agent compensation. Let’s assume the Giants want to cut ties with Melky but want the draft picks (which they’re entitled to–nothing “dirty” about that). Would they take the risk of offering him the one-year deal? What if he takes it? Would they assume it’s not much of a risk because someone out there will offer him a free agent deal?

Here’s how I look at this, 24 hours later: I want my team to get its house in order. No Mota, no Melky. I guess Hensley can stay because it was 7 years ago in the minors and way before the Giants had ties with him. Mota and Melky were both busted on our watch.

Even if it means losing possible draft picks, I say no one-year offer to Melky. Cut your losses. Losing Jonathan Sanchez was probably a net gain, and Ryan Verdugo doesn’t look like any great shakes, either. The Giants had Melky for 117 games and are where they are in the race at least in part because of him. They’ve already benefited without losing anything to get him. They don’t need the draft picks to make the deal worthwhile.

3KINGS

once again, GIANTS RUNNING THE STEROID ERA…

once again,,,,suck suck suck…give them your $$$$$$$$$$$

steroids, steroids, steroids

3KINGS

so instead of running a great team into the playoffs

we are back to running the steroid era…..

f u sabes, f u baer, f u giants br -ASS

Cazart

Melky lives with his mother. I hope she’s dragging him around the house by his ear today.

Wisdom – I know, but it’s convenient plagiarism to help solidify my point.

Can’t wait until you’re running the independent state. Please have it in your heart to appoint Bochy to head the Department of Veteran’s Affairs… He’s a natch.

Nameless bob

When players sign a free agent contract with a team is the contract nullified if that players is caught using PEDs? Seems like it should be written that way. Would the players union allow such a clause?

Mr. Disgusted

KIR –
Valid point about the Dodgers possibly snagging him, but which Melky are they going to sign? The testosterone-fueled Melky? Or the “real” Melky who bounced around to 4 different teams in 4 years?

If they sign the “real” Melky, that may still be a win for the Giants.

Giants Extra Reglar

KNBR online just aired a commercial for a testosterone supplement.

Oh, irony.

Keep’n It Real

@Disgusted

Go look at Melky’s stats. With the exception of the 200+ hits he was on pace to get (which did @ KC last year…maybe clean, maybe not), the rest of his stats were not creating unheard of spikes on his baseball card data. HR/RBI numbers were in line with what he has done with other teams. **This is why the PED deal with Melky is so surprising to me **

I’m not concerned about any “Melky was on 4 teams” concerns, because there is all sorts of examples of young players becoming better as they mature.

In a worse-case scenario, I could easily see Melky being a .280 hitter “clean”, maybe even a .300 hitter. He was a singles/double kind of hitter; not a HR kind of guy. He also has a “gun” for an arm- he hustles on the field and on the base paths. Not bad traits for a LF and that would still be better than we’ve had since #25.

It all comes down to whether Buster and the other clubhouse leaders being able to forgive and having a plan in place to keep Melky clean. The Rangers seem to be supporting Hamilton OK…even when he has fallen off the wagon once or twice. If Buster and Co signs off on Melky for 2013, then I’m there too. If not, you can imagine him with a LA hat on…

Pacman 68

Eric Hacker and Justin Christian. Yawn!

Matthew

Pacman, really? That’s who we brought up?

Skweezplay

Thanks Matthew for post 241.

WC — You’ve got my vote.

I am glad Melky was caught because I love the game of baseball. I wish that everyone who is cheating would get caught. I hope the Giants step up their own policies internally.

Losing your .350-hitting #3 hitter from a lineup that has trouble scoring runs — it doesn’t bode well, but as others have likely said, this one event could galvanize this team like nothing else could have.

I heard some serious determination in Buster’s voice, and if they can really take that on to the field for the last 50 games, they may be hard to beat.

If I were Bochy, I would have Blanco hit first and Pagan hit 3rd, Posey 4th, Pablo 5th, and so on.

Blanco is a leadoff type hitter while Pagan is not. After watching 100+ games, it is not hard to see why the Mets wanted to get rid of Pagan. He is not a leadoff hitter, he is not a power hitter, he might be a good #3 hitter and that is what we should find out. If not Pagan at #3, I would Belt to #3. He gets on base so Posey and Pablo can get the RBIs. Then move Pagan to #7.

I can see Melky coming back next year but it depends on the circumstances of his situation. Was this a 1 time thing? Was it deliberate or accidental? Will his teammates accept him back with no problems? Of course he and the Giants would have to agree on a contract as well.

Could this be the start of the Gary Brown era? Or will the Giants call up Juan Carlos Perez instead. Hitting at .300 at AA is a good sign for any young Giant prospect, and Perez is doing this and had a nice spring training as well.

totalfan62

Matthew says: August 16th, 2012 at 10:16 am
——————————————————————-

+++ Well said, sir. Pretty much how I feel as well.

Lefty says: August 16th, 2012 at 10:33 am
——————————————————————-

+++ As usual, well said Lefty. That’s EXACTLY how I feel.

I would like to see Larry Baer and Giants ownership to take a strong, public stand against PED usage and declare that the Giants will not sign players who have been caught cheating. Mota? Goodbye. Melky next year? No thank you. I don’t care if you go play for the Dodgers. Somehow I think what goes around comes around will come into play.

Let’s get busy developing our own farm system and player development process. Let’s send a loud and clear message that whatever stain of PED usage is in our history is exactly that: in our history. Let’s establish as part of The Giants Way that we will play within the rules. How many games we win or how many playoffs we make should be determined by that philosophy.

3KINGS

i don’t want to hear anyone say they want him back

why would you want someone that will F@#k your team on your team…

for real winners, never

South City Jim

Giants aren’t going to start the clock ticking on Brown or Panik any sooner than they have to. Not surprised by Hacker and Christian.

Giants need to take care of business against the Pads this weekend then it is the biggest series of the year against the bums. We find out in the next six games if the Giants are in it to win it or also rans.

I agree with Lefty. Don’t need to see Mota or Melky the remainder of this season. The stench is killing me. I’m open to resigning Melky next year but the 3 years @ $27 million that I thought was a ‘slap in the face” a week ago is now too much. Need to calibrate how good he’ll be without the juice.

Pacman 68

Matthew…,

Yes. Christian and Hacker. Typical Vanilla thinking that will cause them to miss the playoffs.

Slash78

Bochy said he’s going to wave the white flag and play Blanco in LF.

Sabean and Bochy have quit on the season and have raised the blanco flag. You’re welcome Dodger fans. You just got the division on a plate.

Enabler: one that enables another to achieve an end; especially: one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior.

Many regular and new posters have covered the gamut of topics and emotions on this site and the former threads. I applaud those of you (Al oha and TWC and others) who made us look at the higher powers to be and the much larger picture.

The link below is old. It is about a boy and his family that I knew originally from Foster City. To read ALL of the linked version you have to click forward about 6-7 times. There is a “well known” former summer coach of Robbie’s who “sold him vitamins” and would wink at him and say “you need to get bigger, faster and stronger”. THAT coach is not the only adult who told him that.

In 1992 at a public HS, all the boys were on Creatine. There was powder, pills and granules. Each produced different results, some slower and presumed safer and others quicker and more dangerous. The kids with huge mood swings and anger issues were also full of acne.

Even though Knowledge is Power the kids opted for the source that produced the quickest result regardless of safety.

Since you can’t link more than one, you can click on my name to skim through another remarkable view point on PED’s, Steroids. The distributors are WAY ahead of the enforcers.

This is an epidemic. There are MANY Scoundrels with so called Important Last Names that are involved with all of it. The reason Victor Conte of now S.N.A.C. fame is revealing what he now knows is really (I’m guessing) because of the way Jeff Novitsky went after Greg and himself. Victor, of Tower of Power Fame is letting it all hang out.

Until the consequences meet the penalty, nothing will change. To quote
BALDHEADSLICK1, root for the Team Name. Do NOT let your kids use athletes of any sort as role models. YOU be their role models.

MiLB banned smokeless, then they get to the SHOW and they can use again. WTEFF? Those running MLB are “in to far” and are corrupt. Their mantra is “do it but don’t get caught”.

Congress SHOULD enter the fray (Or Maybe Not)

Pacman 68

Slash78

Giants have waved the white flag. Christian and Hacker are the best that they could come up with.

Wow Mr. Clutch, I found the last couple of paragraphs to be quite a strangling indictment:

Cabrera had become a fan favorite in San Francisco, in that uniquely San Francisco way. On a team that has become fixated with creating marketable trinkets to attach to players — panda hats for Sandoval, baby giraffe hats for Brandon Belt — Cabrera’s “Melk Man” conceit took things to a new level. A whole group of guys dressed as milkmen (none of whom looked anything like Cabrera) sat together in the outfield and provided an insufferably ubiquitous presence on the television broadcasts. (They are also rumored to be on the Comcast payroll, sitting in seats provided by the Giants.)

The Giants have a knack for attracting players who are: (1) prone to cheat, and (2) ignorant and/or arrogant enough to get caught. Cabrera is the third Giant to receive a 50- or 100-game suspension under baseball’s new testing procedures, the most of any team. Guillermo Mota (100 games, earlier this year) and catcher Eliezer Alfonzo (50 in 2008) are the others.

Don’t feel sorry for the Giants, though. A hopped-up Melky undoubtedly gave them more production — and, therefore, more wins — than the God-given Melky ever would have. They gave up a flawed pitcher in Jonathan Sanchez and got 117 of the best games of Cabrera’s career.

In fact, let’s just go ahead and say it: History will wind up recording those 117 games as the very best Melky — and his pharmacological help — had to offer.

Metro

The Oracle says:
August 16th, 2012 at 6:18 am

The Peguero love comes only from Foothills and all the other names he posts under.

+++

I swear some of theses posters will just say anything in a comment. It’s like they throw up every possible idea hoping one will stick and if by chance one does they claim credit

“Peguero will be great! ” (Responses have lots of Peguero stats) “Uhm I mean Ross yeah that’s the ticket!”

Keep’n It Real

new post

Scooter McFinch

How would y’all feel about becoming serious A’s fan if the Giants traded Posey across the Bay.

Speculator

“A clerical passerby probably got the rumor started.”

So a priest did it?

FL- Giants Fan

Something that has always puzzled me: Why all the hate on MLB players for using steroids and no hate on NFL players when they do it? Is it because the NFL is the darling of all media?

SourGrapesRomneyGiantsAllLies

some karma poster want to go on and lecture about posters that trash melky and the giants organization for pushing cheaters while you fans continue to take your kids to felon park in san francisco and cheer cheer cheer for a team that is a scam.

that’s ok…..your deflection tactics are much like mitt romney’s tactics.

easy to be bitter when you have no solutions….you created the steriod enabling as fans by supporting cheaters……….and you are full of hate

that’s why you get players like melky that barely can speak english and cheat the game.

KARMA IS WHAT IT IS BABY

The Oracle

Melky isn’t a rare exception. There are guys on every team doing the same thing, including the Giants. The Giants can’t know what these guys are doing on their own time and are restricted in how they can deal with the issue by the CBA. At least it seems like the problem is smaller than it used to be.

SourGrapesRomneyGiantsAllLies

the most laughable part about you fans:

you were in a serious sate of delusion when the Giant’s signed melky who’s lifetime batting average is .275 and suddenly has a season where he’s mostly been above .350 …

just magically improve his average over 80 percentage points. what is even more ironic…..

too get to .275 that’s counting the season he had with kansas city which was a career type year.

He most likely was cheating then even to get up to .275

and you fans honestly thought this guy was a legit player??

Joke is on you

SourGrapesRomneyGiantsAllLies

oracle is just creating more deflection tactics to make himself feel like the giants aren’t a corrupt organization.

facts are that when we look at the giants team:

Melky Cabrera was caught and it’s a know fact he cheated:

you can’t say that about any other contending team:

do you want more facts?

The Oracle

Melky likely got caught because he mis-timed his usage. These tests aren’t tough to beat. You almost have to screw up to get caught. Does anyone really think that the Giants encouraged this? Is the team in a good spot right now because of this?

maaacev0

wow teamcheats you sir are a loser, do you not have anything better to do than to sit here and post nonsense, you have been posting since yesterday do you have a life kids? wife? boyfriend? dog? Alex get rid of this loser!!

SourGrapesRomneyGiantsAllLies

Yes the giants encouraged cheating.

Barry Bonds ……ever heard of him???

they sent the message long time ago….

we like cheaters and we market cheaters

and our ballpark was built for a felon

barry felon bonds park

face the facts…..barry bonds made that park….never would have been built and you the giants never would be in a position to win in that park

those are plain facts

Bay Area Moose

If the organization knew about this. How did they not go after a simple solution like Tony Gwynn Jr and then DFA Christian?

This just reeks of an org cover up with Pence being a bandaid to say – hey at least we tried.

The income for all the Melk craze should afford the Giants to take a flyer on an OF overpaid for the next year or 2.

Francoeur may seem intriguing at first, but considering between him and Pence, they have 2 games played in LF, you will have an adjustment period on defense.

Going after Scott Hairston reminds me of when the Giants dropped a truckload of cash on Mark Portugal when the only team he was ever good against was the Giants.

Bay is just waiting to be DFAd and has nothing left. The cupboard for OF is pretty bare.

I dunno, i just hope the FO has moved from the shocked phase and into the lets make this team better phase.

maaacev0

hey teamcheats, Barry was just recently convicted of a felony! the ball park was built in 2000 way before Barry’s name was thrown into the PED talk so get your facts straight, I am tired of reading the same thing from yesterday our ballpark was built for a felon well reality check for you barry was not a felon back then you stupid idiot!

SourGrapesRomneyGiantsAllLies

let me point something out here. Instead of people blasting posters with contrary positions that don’t mesh with cool aide sippers.

what does that make you guys when you respond and blast real true posters commenting on your cheating team???

facts are………the ballpark would never have been built if barry felon bonds didn’t cheat the game….

there’s no other way to phrase it ….

so yes……your team’s succes hinged directly on the impact that felon had for your team

and for people to distance themselves from barry bonds……is a perfect example of :

DENIAL

maaacev0

is it not your point to get a response

Bay Area Moose

If Cabrera is on the restricted list, does that open up a slot on the 40 man?

If so, why not consider taking a flyer on Ryan Lollis. The guy has been tearing everything up. Christian is just more of the same.

maaacev0

moving on, I dont understand the hacker and christian promotion, its is clear that christian cannot hit major league pitching, I wish they would have gave nady a shot, it couldnt hurt much like when sabean aquired burrell.

FansTellYourKidsGiantsCheat

We can all just put you on your places by saying to you :

I want you to look your daughter and son in the face and tell them….

amy and john……..the team we root for sends the message to all youth that it’s ok to root for a baseball player that cheated the game

and then tell them these are the same fans that welcome him back to the ballpark and cheer him with standing ovations when he comes back

fully aware that he was convicted of a felony.

now if you want to send that message to other kids?

you are one sick bunch of fans

Hitman

@298: Spot on! Very nice!

FansTellYourKidsGiantsCheat

hey hitman>>

only we tell it like it is

facts and the giants are on the complete opposite end of the truth spectrum

wooo!!!!

al oha

You 2 should get a room.

al oha

One, other than this one.

Nameless Bob

People are slinging the word “felon” around like Bonds was an ax murderer. The crime he committed was perjury, not kidnapping or even grand theft auto. Yes, technically he lied under oath about steroid use. It is a felony under federal law to lie under oath so you can conflate it with all the other felonies like murder and rape even though they are obviously not equal. You don’t say ” convicted perjurer” because it doesn’t have the same weight as “convicted felon”. He used steroids. EVERYONE KNEW IT. He lied about it when everyone else was effectively lying about it, particularly the Giants organization which was choking on all the money made off of it.

As for getting him back in left field, well, why not put Willie Mays in center while you’re at it. Bonds could not play left field the last year he played here ( and off the steroids) but was there as sort of an Honorary Left Fielder. Now he is that much older and you think he would be any better?

Fortress Keeper

Be easier to take some of these critics seriously if they could form a coherent sentence. As for wanting Posey tested, aren’t all MLB players tested throughout the year?

The Full Nuschler

this just goes to show that if you stand in left field long enough you’re bound to catch steroids.

Nameless Bob

I get why PED are not allowed. If they are allowed the inexorable pressure of competition would eventually require everyone who wanted to compete to use PED or not make the team. It’s kind of like natural selection or free market capitalism. The downside is that most of the PED have deleterious effects on health. All you would have left are players willing for whatever reason to sacrifice their future health for short term gain. We don’t want to go to the park to watch the equivalent of circus freaks who are so driven to compete for whatever reason that they destroy their bodies.

We don’t outlaw healthy eating or exercise or weight lifting or other things that provide a competitive advantage because they don’t have the long lasting ill effects of some PED.

So, are there some currently outlawed PED that don’t have bad side effects? Can we allow those? What if some are developed in the future, should they be allowed? What if the ban were lifted and there was great economic incentive for drug companies to come up with effective PED without bad side effects? If they did then there would be a market for them from players who want the boost without the harm. Wouldn’t we all benefit from taking these drugs that would make us stronger and be physically active longer?

The main objection seems to be the side effects. Are PED without bad side effects possible?