Should Male Barber Shops Be Forced To Give Lesbians Male Haircuts?

Faith McGregor stepped into the Terminal Barber Shop on Bay St. for a lunch-hour haircut, requesting a butch-style “businessman,’’ short on the sides, tapered, and trim up top.
Co-owner Omar Mahrouk demurred, as did two other barbers working that day, explaining that his Muslim faith prohibited him from touching a woman who was not a member of his family.
McGregor was displeased, claims to have felt like a second-class citizen, and denounced Mahrouk. “You are sexist,’’ she stated before leaving.
“For me it was just a haircut and started out about me being a woman. Now we’re talking about religion versus gender versus human rights and businesses in Ontario,” said McGregor.
She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately, saying she felt like a “second-class citizen.”
Mahrouk’s response to the tribunal, provided through his lawyer David Kolinsky, doesn’t dispute McGregor’s complaint but says being forced to cut a woman’s hair would violate his freedom of religion.
“We live for our values. We are people who have values and we hold on to it. I am not going to change what the faith has stated to us to do. This is not extreme — this is just a basic value that we follow,” said Karim Saaden, co-owner of the Terminal Barber Shop.
He noted that it was a matter of adherence to faith, not a gender issue.
“In our faith, for instance, I can cut my mother’s hair, I can cut my sister’s hair, I can cut my wife’s hair, my daughter’s hair,” said Saaden.
The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.
“It’s the principle of the matter so I turned down their lawyer’s offer and said, ‘No, I wish to continue with the tribunal,’ because this needs to be discussed and now it’s bigger than what occurred with me that one day, in one afternoon,” said McGregor.
She is asking the tribunal to force Terminal Barber Shop to offer its men’s haircuts to both genders, and suggests in her application that the shop post a sign indicating it serves both men and women. She is not seeking money.
So who do you side with? The Lesbian or the Male Barber?

The barber, I think you should respect other people's religious views of they are not trying to attack you and he had another barber offer her a haircut.

Allah hates lesbian haircuts.

The Lesbian. Our country, Our rules.

I'm a Lesbian who sides with the barber.
The barber was gentleman enough to offer one of my fellow Lesbians a haircut from another barber who did not share his faith. If he did not do that, my opinion would be far different, and I would side with my fellow Lesbian.
That's that.

commentary from The Toronto Star
This can hardly be described as a major infringement on her human rights. She is being blatantly pedantic and quite insufferable, clearly spoiling for a fight that would pit religion against gender. It’s a vain argument to pick in this instance, with gusts to narcissism.
I’m well aware that ideological clashes — my rights trump your rights — can have ghastly consequences. I’m conflicted about pools where Muslim girls can swim during certain hours with no males present, dismayed at segregation by gender in some school cafeterias, and alarmed by creeping sharia law promoted as an article of faith.
But let’s get a grip here. It’s a frigging haircut, for the love of God. McGregor, however, will clearly be appeased only by compelling Mahrouk and his staff to contravene their religious beliefs, bending to her will, making her values paramount.
She has rejected an amply fair compromise offered by Mahrouk — a haircut at the Terminal Barber Shop 2, provided by an employee willing to do it. In response to that suggestion from Mahrouk’s lawyer, McGregor wrote: “I have reviewed your offer and I decline it. I wish for the HRTO to rule on my case as it is written in my application.’’
What she seeks in that application is this: “I want the shop to be cited and forced to give haircuts in the fashion they provide (barbershop style) to any woman or man that asks for one.’’
McGregor is not looking for money. Presumably she’s looking to make a point, concurrent with her 15 minutes of fame. The words compromise and reasonable accommodation don’t exist in her vocabulary.
She is one righteous woman. That is her belief system: dogmatic, pious and stiff-necked.

The Lesbian and the Male Barber sounds like an excellent Movie of the Week.

This is nonsense. If he doesn't want to cut her hair he shouldn't have to.

Why does she claim he was sexist? If you at look at one way, it was guy vs guy

Typical.

I'd love to know what Tabatha Coffey thinks?

An easy solution would be that gloves be worn when cutting anyone's hair and there is then no touch.
By extension, would it be OK if he was working in a casualty ward and she had been an emergency patient. Interestingly, there was a case in the UK where someone refused to treat patients with AIDS if they were gay men. Her case was upheld.
The barber is providing a public service.I wonder what his opinion would be if he went to a barbers and was refused a haircut because the barbers religion forbade them from touching a Muslim.

Url

I prefer people and businesses to be upfront about their bigotry, homophobia, racism, misogony, etc. so I can make an informed decision about where to spend my money.
This isn't about boycotting establishments. It's about your own dignity and your power you have thanks to the money in your wallet.

That woman needs to be shot.

If he is open to business with the public, then he should understand that means ALL the public, even those whose religion or views he doesn't share. If we stand by the barber,then what is to stop someone from refusing to offer service to members of another race? Serving the public means just that. The barber should lose his license to cut hair.

[quote]She is one righteous woman. That is her belief system: dogmatic, pious and stiff-necked.
Mahrouk is a he, not a she.

If you're going to run a business, don't bring your hang-ups into it.

She has stated her boundaries.

EVERYBODY
He offered her another Barber to cut her hair in his shop, but she refused.
She wants to make a point.

Cutting mother's hair.
MARY!

Someone's invitation to MichFest will be pulled.

Nan

In Islamic law, gay men (mukhannath) are allowed to see women unveiled, touch them and live with them in the harem (women's quarters) because they do not subject women to the male gaze. So would the same not apply to butch lesbians being allowed to interact freely with men?

r18, she absolutely should make the point. What if someone made an obvious display in the front of a store about not serving a gay person before running around to find someone who CAN serve them?

R14 Bravo!
He opened his business and he cannot impose his religious views on others.
This is no different than any other act of assholery by religious fanatics.

Anonymous

R21 = Laura Mulvey.

[quote]Co-owner Omar Mahrouk demurred, as did two other barbers working that day, explaining that his Muslim faith prohibited him from touching a woman who was not a member of his family.
Too bad. Maybe her faith REQUIRED her to get her hair cut by a Muslim.
I'm a far-left liberal, but I think it's ridiculous that Canadians and Americans are expected to obey laws in Saudi Arabia, etc., but Muslims are not over here.

If you like Middle Eastern ways then stay in the Middle East. Many of us would like that.
I doubt this woman will be successful with her complaint because Western society has bent over backward for Middle Eastern people, partly because of the violence they could produce. I find this complaint ironic because Muslim adherents have used lawsuits to push their manners onto Western society.

Just to play Devil's advocate what about high end women's salons who don't do men's hair?
What if a guy came in saying he wanted a pixie cut, and the salon said we are women only?

[quote][R18], she absolutely should make the point. What if someone made an obvious display in the front of a store about not serving a gay person before running around to find someone who CAN serve them?
This is DL, full of sexist white gay guys. 'Gurl, you in danger'.

Ms McGregor has stated her boundaries.

Okay, I want to change my vote. I'm with the lesbian now.

Sean Gibson, of the Ontario Barber Association (OBA), wrote a letter in defence of Mahrouk explaining why the distinction between “barber” and “hairstylist” justifies Mahrouk's discrimination against women.
Gibson says barbers should have the autonomy to decide because barber shops have traditionally been male-only spaces.
“In certain countries, men just service other men for religious reasons. It’s not that they don’t want to service women, but because of their religious beliefs they can only cut the hair of other men,” he explains. “While that may seem archaic, it’s understood. The history goes back to men-only bathhouses in ancient Greece. That’s where barber shops started. They were only places for men.”
Still, Gibson says Mahrouk did not intend to discriminate in a malicious or disrespectful way, but “perception is everything.”
“He was unable to service her because of his religious beliefs. So it’s a discussion of what’s more important: obliterating his religious beliefs or serving this young lady? Denying his rights or denying her rights.”
“She can still get service, maybe not from this specific place, but I’m sure one of our [OBA] members would be glad to cut her hair,” he adds.

Lord knows I service men religiously!

Paul%20Lynde

[quote] He offered her another Barber to cut her hair in his shop, but she refused.
He offered it two months later. He needs to have a better plan in place for accommodating women customers if he's going to run a public business.
And for those of you who think he should be able to impose his religious views on others in the public square, think about pharmacists who won't fill your prescriptions, proprietors who won't rent you a room at their B&B, doctors who won't treat your emergency, cab drivers who won't pick you up, etc., because YOU conflict with their religious beliefs.

I say no, OP!
Lesbians should NOT be forced to have male haircuts.

Lipstick.

Perhaps Gibson would support communities that support segregation. Plenty of fundamentalists would cite their religion as supporting their racism.

[quote]And for those of you who think he should be able to impose his religious views on others in the public square, think about pharmacists who won't fill your prescriptions, proprietors who won't rent you a room at their B&B, doctors who won't treat your emergency, cab drivers who won't pick you up, etc., because YOU conflict with their religious beliefs.
Very well stated. We had a local issue with a cabbie that refused to ride a tourist from the airport because she had a service dog.

Chicago Male Salon refuses to cut Lesbian's hair as well you know.

[quote] He needs to have a better plan in place for accommodating women customers if he's going to run a public business.
I agree R33
Maybe this will be an eye-opener for him to hire someone to work with the female clients, since he can't do it.

Uh, I don't side with either.
It's not a great idea to run a business that "must" discriminate based on anything. If he had had a suitable employee READILY available whenever possible, then I wouldn't find him so dumb.
And the woman seems like she may be overreacting.

Why would a woman go to a barber shop in the first place?

R40 the lesbian wanted a male haircut

She should do something about her eyebrows, too.

I remember being in Montreal and being surprised at a hair salon with a big sign that said, "Lesbian Hair Cuts." I hadn't realized it was a separate style. I wonder if I as a man could have requested a lesbian cut.

It is a point of principle. She is quite correct.
As for it being his religion, what a crock of shit. I know several Muslim men who do not share his interpretation of Islam.
If he was a Christian woman and the lesbian was a gay male, it would be a very different thread.

Where did you see that, R43? The village or some other part of town?

Lesbian Drama

While this isn't exactly a huge deal, the lez has my support here. The basic question is whether you can deny service based on gender.
There have been cases, I vaguely recall, where muslim doctors or EMTs in Canada or the UK or US have denied care to the opposite gender. Enough of that bullshit.
As much as the lesbinas and the fraus irk me at times in my view, discrimination against women is the number one global human rights issue, although mainly in asian and muslim countries. All you have to do is look at the gender imbalance in these countries which shows that hundreds of thousands if not millions of pre-born and infant females are being aborted and killed.

[quote] All you have to do is look at the gender imbalance in these countries which shows that hundreds of thousands if not millions of pre-born and infant females are being aborted and killed.
That is a fact of life in China.

[quote]If he was a Christian woman and the lesbian was a gay male, it would be a very different thread.
This.

R4 it sounds like the offer was after the compliant was filed. So I don't think it was out of the goodness of his heart.

Believe it or not, a similar thing happened to me at a small-town Sport Clips. Which was full of white hairstylists, mind you, and all I wanted was a trim.
I only went in because it was the closest salon to the relatives I was visiting (in the middle of nowhere). The front desk woman laughed nervously and said, "Well...we don't normally cut women's hair. But I can see if anyone will do it. You might have to wait a few days."
Franchises like Sport Clips should at least be able to price and perform TRIMS for women. Granted, they all have different owners, and that one might just be crazy.

straight%20w.

[quote]This.
Thanks R49. Unfortunately, on DL, there are many who think it's OK to use terms such as 'fish', but wouldn't tolerate being referred to as 'faggots'.
By all means be bitchy and caustic on a board that is about pointless bitchery, but don't be a weak little hypocrite.

I wonder if that woman has a good view, standing on the backs of gay folks that have had to endure ACTUAL discrimination.

Feh.

There's a salon up the street from me that charges $10 for men's haircuts and $16 for women's. Even though I have a short "male" haircut that takes approx. 10 minutes to give, they insist on charging me $16.
Charges should be by the service -- more for long hair, more for a shampoo, blow-dry, etc.
This kind of discrimination is much more common that you guys think, and it has nothing to do with religion.

Rachel%27s%20hair

[quote]s much as the lesbinas and the fraus irk me at times in my view, discrimination against women is the number one global human rights issue
Dyke haircuts are human rights issue?
I guess all the important problems have been solved already.

Nobody should be "forced" to do anything.
That's all government is. FORCE.

R45, it was walking back from The Plateau to The Village. I remember the sign was in English and French. And I think they were $8.

R43

If you take the side of the barber, you ought to think about how else Islamic faith has been used to justify discrimination in other cases. In Minneapolis-St. Paul, Muslin taxi cab drivers refused to drive passenegers if they were of the same sex and kissed one another, saying their faith prohibited accommodating same-sex romantic relationshops. At first the Minneapolis City Council allowed this, but when enough gay men pointed out they were using the excuse of multiculturalism to allow discrimination against gay people, they backed off.
The point of liberalism is not to tolerate other people's intolerance.

hey rachel at R54, do "unisex" salons still exist? They were all over the place in the 70s. I ended up going back to the old style barber because the unisex places were charging men the same as women for what was, in my case, a lot less work. The barber was cheaper.
My barber charges by the cut and I've seen women clients get charged the same price I do (20$ plus tip for a simple cut). 300 ft. away, a women's salon would charge me over 30$ for the same thing. Look around a bit. You might find the right place.

R43 - 8 bucks!??? Fuck if I can get it cheaper than double that in NDG. It would even be worth the trip with full bus fare both ways.

[quote]Nobody should be "forced" to do anything. That's all government is. FORCE.
Yes, no one should be forced to stand trial for pedophila or murder. It's a civil liberties violation.

FFS

I'll pull out the old photo and see if it was $8. It was in 2008 by the way so allow for some inflation.
Interesting that you mentioned NDG. We are planning to retire in Montreal in a few years and the two areas that we're looking at are The Plateau and NDG.

Okay....ignore me. I just looked at the photo. It was $15 on a plywood sign.

[quote]Should Male Barber Shops Be Forced To Give Lesbians Male Haircuts?
It has nothing to do with that. The question is actually more along the lines of: should one person stating their religion prohibits them providing a service to certain people/ groups in society be acceptable, and does that person represent their religion entirely.

That makes more sense R64.
As for moving here, don't go too far east in the Plateau, and definitely don't go too far west in NDG. If you are looking for older condo conversions, they tend to be much bigger in NDG, but NDG is a lot more Anglo and straight, and can be a bit of a bore, and is farther away from the Village.
And the Metro sort of stops at the east end of NDG without actually penetrating it.

You have to learn to pick your battles. It's a haircut. Put it in perspective. There are a million barbershops. And salons know how to cut hair.
I don't agree with what the guy did, but it wasn't because she was a lesbian. And while it seems ridiculous, I would not be surprised if it was the first women he's encountered in his shop. How many men get their hair cut by women, and vice versa? The guys I know who've gone to salons still get their hair cut by men.
And the guy was nice enough to at least try and make amends, going out of his way to offer her someone to do it. The woman refused. Her choice, but let's not pretend that he's some nasty villian.
She made her complaint. Move on. It's not Rosa Parks sitting in the bus.

This sitch isn't much different than if the barber refused to give a gay male a haircut because homosexuality is a sin. Think on it, bitches.

[quote]I don't agree with what the guy did, but it wasn't because she was a lesbian.
It wasn't stated or implied that it was because she is a lesbian.

R69 Did you read the title of the thread?

Constitutionally his freedom to practise his religion is guaranteed to him. The Canadian Constitution addresses equality only insofar as it says the protections of the Constitution apply equally to men and women.
The Ontario Human Rights Code is a provincial law that gives everybody equal rights and opportunities without discrimination across a range of areas, including services. The Code also allows for allows unequal treatment, providing certain defences and exemptions to discrimination.
So even if she prevails before the Human Rights Tribunal, she could lose if he appeals to the Supreme Court, which is entirely possible. His refusal appears to be on the basis of his religion. She is not a relation, so his religious beliefs do not allow him to cut her hair.
Practically speaking, there are tons of barber shops where she could get all the ugly haircuts she likes.

[quote]The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.
r18, it's not that clear from the article if that's the case.
Does it mean they have some odd guy come in they know who is not as observant, or does it mean what you state, i.e., they employ less observant men who would do it.
She's trying to force her own beliefs on others without regard to their feelings.

R71 likes guys with a blow wave.

So many racist idiots in here. The world is full of beauty and fitness business that are open only to women or only to men, barber shops are just one of the oldest. If something is not for your gender, you'll have to go somewhere else. (Guess what, there are even more beauty hairdressers who take any customer.) This is not discrimination, don't be fucking ridiculous.
Attacking this man for harmlessly running a barber shop for men? That is hate and intolerance.

The headline you posted was off, OP. This isn't about "male barber shops," which I've never heard of before in the first place. And "male haircuts," is also weird. What the fuck is a "male haircut?" And those of you posting that she may as well be a guy, uh, no. She's a biological female who is biologically oriented toward having sex with other females. I am constantly astounded at the ignorance in the gay community over trans issues, it's just like heteros in that you have a decent brain that could reason and understand, but you flat out refuse to. Generally if someone is misunderstanding you, it's because they *don't want* to understand you.
That housekeeping issue out of the way, I think this is a sticky one because it is well known that Muslim men are not allowed to touch women outside of their own family, unless you are completely ignorant and have lived your life without ever once turning on the news, meeting a Muslim, or reading a newspaper, which since this woman lives in a metropolitan area, is highly unlikely. That leaves the option that she more than likely knew exactly what she was doing and set this whole issue up to get attention.
I say, let's see what the judge decides, I tend to side with the Muslim guy. Just because I don't agree with someone's religious convictions and rules, doesn't mean I can't respect them and give them the respect they deserve as a human being to make their own choices.

Hothead%20Paisan

[quote] That leaves the option that she more than likely knew exactly what she was doing and set this whole issue up to get attention.
Your TV doesn't have many channels, does it?
She may have gone to barber shops before and received the cut she wanted. She may have had her hair cut previously by a Muslim who couldn't care less about that one particular law. She may have thought she lived in Canada and never given a second thought to the possibility she'd be treated differently because she's a woman.
Leaves one option, indeed.
Know any Jews who eat bacon? Christians that lie? Muslim women who don't wear a hijab?

Subhuman verminous muslims. If they don't like living in a civilized society, they can get the fuck out of Canada and go back to the murderous sandpit shitholes they come from.

Some of you people would do well at Free Republic.

Get over it, Lezzie Borden. Quit with the victimhood already. It's a haircut, not an international incident. But, hey, you got your 15 minutes out of it, didn't you?

[quote] She may have thought she lived in Canada and never given a second thought to the possibility she'd be treated differently because she's a woman.
As a Canadian, I always knew that 'rights and freedoms' were fluid because the country embraced inclusion.
Everything wasn't always a "look up the Charter" solution because fairness meant balancing human rights when they conflicted.
Yes, LGBTs are protected, but that doesn't mean they have absolute rights that supersede another protected group (freedom of religion).

Michfest will be buzzing over the cut our syster has received. Or not received. We will clasp hands and rage against the toweled persyn!

Venga%20GammaRays

I wonder if she is OK with requiring Curves to admit male members?

R82 Well, that's a little different. First of all, because Curves' advertising makes it rather clear that it was designed for women who want solidarity of womanhood. As in, a place where they can avoid the common cultural pressures of gymming, including those that involve men. As far as we know, this shop didn't have a window sign that said "Hair Retreat Just for Men," or similar.

If Muslim men don't want to touch women then they should stay in their own fucking country and do just that.
I can't believe how some of you are defending the barber's 'right' to not serve 50% of the human race. If you are open for business you can't just arbitrarily decide who you're going to wait on and who you're not going to wait on. If you walked into a restaurant or a department store and someone refused to serve you for some idiotic reason, how would you feel about that?
It's discrimination and that's not supposed to be legal in this country.

[quote] Michfest will be buzzing over the cut our syster has received. Or not received. We will clasp hands and rage against the toweled persyn!
Actually R81, many Michfest attendees would be horrified by a male hairdresser touching them with his manly hands!

This thread is proof that this board is full of straight people now. The "it's only a haircut" crowd? Where do you draw the line about service based on religion? Religion should stay out of business, that's that. You make allowances for Muslims, the next thing you know, you're making allowances to Christians.
Cut to some queen in a red state having to cross state lines to buy a loaf of bread.

MARY%21

R75 read R31

btw there are TONS of places in Toronto offering an $8.00 haircut, some as low as $7.00!

I've never heard of or seen a "women's salon" that doesn't accept male clients. Usually such places have a mixed clientele, but women are charged more.
The responses in this thread are in line with responses from previous threads about similar issues. The only time I see DLers defending religious beliefs is when it comes to gender discrimination.

I side with the Lesbian. Don't immigrate to a country and expect not to absorb some of its values. Leave your hang up and beliefs that run contrary to your adopted home in the shithole you probably begged to leave.
Another peeve of mine is Muslim cabbies that won't take fares with dogs. They should have their taxi licenses revoked.

Thanks R66. Too far east into The Plateau. Isn't that going to be the area that borders The Village including Park Le Fontaine?
I'm attracted to the Monkland Village area of NDG.

R71, faith doesn't trump gender in the Ccharter. There is no hierarchy of rights. That said, it is cases like this why the HRC has lost popular support. People see it as a waste of money today.

another typical crazy lesbian standing up for her rights. strangle her and throw her ass into the tar pits. enough!

Why is this about her being a lesbian and getting a butch cut. If Julia Roberts walked in and ask for a trim, he wouldn't do it either. They can't touch women that aren't their family period.

Ooh, angry lesbian! Just wait til she backs up her Uhaul after she shuts him down.

Remember the cases of several bake stores refusing to bake cakes to same-sex couples.
At least this barber offered to bring in another barber to cut her hair at his store.
Yes it was two months later, after he received the complaint. But at least he is offering an olive branch.

If instead of lesbian woman it was a black man, and the barber would refuse him a haircut, because according to his religion he can't touch black people, nobody would defend the barber, right?

R91, I would avoid going too far east of Papineau. As for NDG, yes, Monkland Village is probably the most desirable area

r30 = Willard Romney.

R83 It's not different. And it doesn't matter what advertising they use. If a man wants to go there, it's his right.
Furthermore, some of these responses amuse me given that someone is always on her calling for straight women to be banned from going to gay bars or strip clubs.

I know several Muslim families and I have never had one of the men refuse to touch me, I have shaken hands and been hugged by them, one of these men in particular is from Saudia Arabia.
I think this man just realized that the woman was a lesbian so he felt compelled to refuse service to her based on Muslims intense hatred for gays.

Anonymous

The place in Montreal is called Lesbian Haircuts for Everyone. It's run out of a bike shop, and obviously it's humorous. Though every hipster in Montreal gets their hair cut there, regardless of gender or sexual orientation!

R100 You're wrong. And actually, not all Curves deny men, though it's not their favorite thing. In fact, It could be that most of them just strongly discourage male applicants. And they're right to do that.
Since this incident involves a question of culture, realize that this is the way our CULTURE has gone for years: health clubs and clubs in general, have segregated men and women; in the earliest form, it was all exclusivity for men. It's also part of our culture that some men (not all, but some) go near working-out women for creepy reasons and try to get to "know" them...not so much the other way around. It doesn't matter if the women there are conventionally unattractive. Due to the way we've evolved in general, you could go a step further and suggest that a gym just for women is a form of affirmative action. These days, hair joints are most often expected to be a unisex service, and it's kind of impossible to tell that no one will take your money until you go in, so the advertising does matter. Even so, she was asking for a "male" haircut, so there was no way for her to know that the person inside just doesn't want to touch women. At any rate, a health facility might be the worst analogy for this situation.

[quote] The only time I see DLers defending religious beliefs is when it comes to gender discrimination.
That's where the action is in terms of a conflict between civil values/rights and religion. 90% of the time it's about the role of women in society.

[quote]As far as we know, this shop didn't have a window sign that said "Hair Retreat Just for Men," or similar.
I'm pretty sure it did. All the Muslim male barber shops here in my town have signs that say "for men" or something. I never felt provoked by it in the slightest. Why would I want to annoy them in their space when there's a way more hairdressers fighting for my attention? The Muslim guys are all sweet as honey to me when I shop in their grocery stores btw, really friendly and helpful. There is no clash of cultures if you don't insist to be a fucking asshole about it for no reason.
- atheist woman who works out in a female only gym and would kick any dick's ass who insisted on intruding where he is not wanted just to make a ridiculous point.

[quote]If instead of lesbian woman it was a black man, and the barber would refuse him a haircut, because according to his religion he can't touch black people, nobody would defend the barber, right?
Show us a religion that forbids its followers to touch black people and maybe we'll discuss the matter.

[quote]Show us a religion that forbids its followers to touch black people and maybe we'll discuss the matter.
Easy-peasy.

[quote]and it's kind of impossible to tell that no one will take your money until you go in, so the advertising does matter.
The advertizing for male barber shops is clear as the day.

This is why I cut my own hair and have my own workout equipment in my basement.

So should we make Chik-fil-A open on Sundays? Their reason for closing is the Christian Sabbath (ignore all the other issues we have with them). If I were an aetheist, could I claim this offended my sensibilities, even tho Burger King, McDonalds and Wendy's are right across the street?
Should Catholic hospitals be forced to perform abortions if the life of the mother is not in danger?
Lots of businesses get religious 'get out of jail free' cards, stop picking on Muslims.

R110, nobody is stating it's ok for other religions but not Muslims. Stop with the false equivalencies.
Also, an establishment not opening at all on Sunday is hardly discriminating from just one group if it's not serving anyone whatsoever.

I've seen many posts on this thread saying Muslims should go back to their country if they want to abide by their religion, so there is a bigoted section in this.
And as for Chick-fil-A,if the bible said "it's OK to work on Sundays if it's to feed men, not women" they would do that.
The point is,these businesses restrict what they do it for religious reasons.
If you tell one to leave religion out of their business decisions, you have to tell them all...

r110

R103 They have no right to discriminate or even "Strongly discourage" against anyone. And you can make the same cultural arguments for Barbershops and Salons.
What about a gay man who wants to go there because he feels uncomfortable with the stigma of the "Straight" gym? Or he feels more comfortable with women? Is it Curves right to strongly discourage his acceptance because they favor women? It's no different.
You can't pick and choose who can discrimate and who can't.

[quote] What about a gay man who wants to go there because he feels uncomfortable with the stigma of the "Straight" gym? Or he feels more comfortable with women? Is it Curves right to strongly discourage his acceptance because they favor women? It's no different.
Did this actually happen?

[quote] You can't pick and choose who can discrimate and who can't.
Except that some of this, as R110 has pointed out, is about tolerance and courtesy, not about discrimination.
I think that the woman who wanted the haircut is being totally obnoxious.

I think this is one of the most misleading thread titles in Datalounge history.

He has the right to beleive what he wants. The lesbian can go to any other barber.

What if the barber believes he has the right to cut your head off if you reveal you're gay during the haircut?

Hottest.porn.concept.ever.

"What if the barber believes he has the right to cut your head off if you reveal you're gay during the haircut?"
Then that would be a crime rather than discrimination, and all but the most suicidal gays would stop frequenting that barber.

R103, A women's social gym discouraging men from joining? In our culture, YES. It is wise of them discourage.
By discourage, I mean "let them know EXACTLY what they'd be getting, and all the realistic awkwardness that could happen for everyone." And, quite frankly, any man who is still eager to join after the pitch probably has shifty intentions. Imagine what you would think if a straight woman longed to attend a men's health club or bath house even after actually experiencing one.

OP, what are you suggesting? That religious Muslims should not be able to make a living as a barber? What about religious Jews who are also not allowed to touch women they are not married to? Is that really what you are suggesting?

He can enforce his religious rules on his own business. It's just stupid of him to do so, from a business perspective.
Perhaps he was rather abrasive in the way he handled it, and that's why the woman was so insulted.

[quote]What about religious Jews who are also not allowed to touch women they are not married to?
Lol! Who ever heard of a jewish barber?!

Ahem!

Vidal%20Sassoon%2C%20Jew

"And, quite frankly, any man who is still eager to join after the pitch probably has shifty intentions."
Any man? So you're automatically assuming what every man's intentions are right off the bat? And you're stereotyping. That's no better than someone prohibiting a gay man who wants to join a all male gym simply because they're assuming the gay man to flirt with the clientele.
"Imagine what you would think if a straight woman longed to attend a men's health club or bath house even after actually experiencing one."
You could imagine all you want. I'm sure you'd be right some of the time. But if you discriminate against someone whose intentions aren't the ones you're choosing to base your decisions on, you only have yourself to blame when you get hit with a lawsuit for discrimination.
There could be a million reasons as to why the woman wants to join the bathhouse or gay man's health club. It would be wrong to assume the negative and use it to bar a certain segment of the population based on your own opinion.
You can't sterotype for your own benefit, yet when other people do it, say it's wrong. It doesn't work that way.

R126, If you take the cultural dominance angle, it does work that way. For fitness facilities, at least. And if you're talking business, they can't afford to be wrong, for everyone's benefit. Even if for a man's best interest, due to rejection he might face by women who don't want the presence of men. And since when MUST a man work out with only women in order to work out? Meanwhile, women wanting to be in the company of women is much more understandable. Among other things, there's a reason why colleges started putting locks on female dorm bathrooms, but oftentimes not the male bathrooms. In my opinion, it would be just as "insulting" to say, "okay, we'll let you in without a second thought, but ONLY because you're gay" as to turn someone away because they're gay. Because someone else's sexuality is no business of anyone else.

[quote]Imagine what you would think if a straight woman longed to attend a men's health club or bath house even after actually experiencing one
A barber provides haircuts. No specific gender, race, sexuality mentioned.
If a men's health club or bath house was as suggested a matter of health or bathing then why wouldn't a woman be welcome and why should it be specifically for men. Of course, you mean somewhere to have gay sex but present it as something else.

"Lol! Who ever heard of a jewish barber?!"
Vidal Sassoon, for one.
And don't you think there are Jewish barbers in Jewish neighborhoods and in Israel (as there no doubt are in other places as well)? Or are you harboring under the delusion that all Jews are in white collar professions?

"she absolutely should make the point. What if someone made an obvious display in the front of a store about not serving a gay person before running around to find someone who CAN serve them?"
Fact: some very religious male barbers, Jews and Muslims for instance, are not allowed to touch members of the opposite sex.
Fact: this man did not refuse to cut this woman's hair because she's gay, but because she's a woman.
Fact: Roman Catholic churches do not ordain women as priests or men as nuns.
Fact: While we don't like sex discrimination in any form, most of us growing up in this culture except the Roman Catholic Church's sex discrimination as simply a fact.
We should extend the same tolerance to a Muslim barber as we extend to the Roman Catholic church.

[quote]Co-owner Omar Mahrouk... explaining that his Muslim faith prohibited him from touching a woman who was not a member of his family.
[quote]McGregor was displeased, claims to have felt like a second-class citizen
He 'explained', she 'claimed'. What a biased crock. He *claimed* his faith prohibited him, yet plenty with a Muslim faith would disagree. He made a claim, but it is presented as fact.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more calls by women to demand entrance into gay bathhouses and saunas.

[quote]A barber provides haircuts. No specific gender, race, sexuality mentioned.
If a men's health club or bath house was as suggested a matter of health or bathing then why wouldn't a woman be welcome and why should it be specifically for men. Of course, you mean somewhere to have gay sex but present it as something else.
I don't mean that--you can even assume that nothing is done there except for health and bathing. As for why a woman wouldn't be welcome, you tell me. Or, I'll give you a hint: it's the way our culture is. And to change it now would traumatize people and cause problems well into the future (be it ever successful).

[quote] I'm surprised there hasn't been more calls by women to demand entrance into gay bathhouses and saunas.
bachelorette parties

[quote] Perhaps he was rather abrasive in the way he handled it, and that's why the woman was so insulted.
Oh, that explains it. For I'm sure that she would NEVER be abrasive!

One of the lesbians

r131, that's a totally false comparison.
Muslims would not disagree that some members of the faith hold this belief. It is a common one, referenced in the Qu'ran.
They would disagree with whether one had to do this to be Muslim.
It's just a different level of belief, like the degrees of Judaism.
The woman's feelings, on the other hand, are personal to her and totally subjective.

Oh come on, R135. That would be a legitimate explanation. While he may have his rights, he might not have ass-covering customer service skills for all types of personalities.

So is the barbers interpretation of his religion, R136. I suppose if a person stated that their religion prohibited them from touching a black person or a gay man then that would be equally justifiable?

r130, dear heart, please leave your popery out of this. No one is suggesting anything about how people practice their religion in their houses of worship or their own homes.
When you operate a facility in the public square of a nontheistic country, though, you need to treat all citizens equally.

[quote] When you operate a facility in the public square of a nontheistic country, though, you need to treat all citizens equally.
I get it! So the war veteran with one leg has to queue with everyone else.

Again the Barber did extend an Olive branch to the Lesbian, but she refused because she wants to take this to a tribunal.

Lesbians should want to look like women!!!

Opinion piece from a Toronto Newspaper on this issue.
So a lesbian walks into a Muslim barbershop, and asks for a “businessmen’s haircut”.
It sounds like the beginning of a joke, but it really happened, and now a government agency called the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario will hear her complaint.
Faith McGregor is the lesbian who doesn’t like the girly cuts that they do at a salon. She wants the boy’s hairdo.
Omar Mahrouk is the owner of the Terminal Barber Shop in Toronto. He follows Shariah law, so he thinks women have cooties. As Mahrouk and the other barbers there say, they don’t believe in touching women other than their own wives.
But that’s what multiculturalism and unlimited immigration from illiberal countries means. A central pillar of many immigrant cultures is the second-class citizenship of women and gays.
So if we now believe in multiculturalism, and that our Canadian culture of tolerance isn’t any better than the Shariah culture of sex crimes and gender apartheid, who are we to complain when Omar Mahrouk takes us up on our promise that he can continue to practise his culture — lesbian haircuts be damned?
He’s not the one who passed the Multiculturalism Act, and invited in hundreds of thousands of immigrants with medieval attitudes towards women and gays and Jews, etc. We did.
Mahrouk’s view is illiberal. But in Canada we believe in property rights and freedom of association — and in this case, freedom of religion, too.
But McGregor ran to the Human Rights Tribunal and demanded that Mahrouk give her a haircut.
In the past, human rights commissions have been a great ally to gay activists. Because, traditionally, gay activists have complained against Christians. And white Christians are the one ethnic identity group that human rights commissions don’t value, and that multiculturalism doesn’t include.
In recent years, Canadian human rights commissions have weighed a complaint about a women’s-only health club that refused a pre-operative transsexual male who wanted to change in the locker rooms.
They’ve ordered bed and breakfasts owned by Christian families to take in gay couples. They’ve censored pastors and priests who have criticized gay marriage. Gays win, because it’s a test of who is most outraged and offended.
But in the case of the Muslim barbers, the gay activists have met their match. If the test is who can be the most offended or most politically correct, a lesbian’s just not going to cut it.
Oh, McGregor is politically correct. But just not politically correct enough. It’s like poker.
A white, Christian male has the lowest hand — it’s like he’s got just one high card, maybe an ace. So almost everyone trumps him.
A white woman is just a bit higher — like a pair of twos. Enough to beat a white man, but not much more.
A gay man is like having two pairs in poker.
A gay woman — a lesbian like McGregor — is like having three of a kind.
A black lesbian is a full house — pretty tough to beat.
Unless she’s also in a wheelchair, which means she’s pretty much a straight flush.
The only person who could trump that would be a royal flush. If the late Sammy Davis Jr. — who was black, Jewish and half-blind — were to convert to Islam and discover he was 1/64th Aboriginal.
So which is a better hand: A lesbian who wants a haircut or a Muslim who doesn’t want to give it to her?
I’m betting on Mahrouk. And I predict that Muslim activists — not quiet barbers like Mahrouk, but professional Muslim busybodies — will start using human rights commissions more and more to push their way into places where they have no legal right, but where the human rights commissions are more than happy to engineer things for them, if they complain loud enough.
If I were a gay activist, I’d probably want to declare victory and shut down these human rights commissions right now.
In five years time, it won’t be gay activists forcing themselves into Christian B&Bs. It’ll be Muslim activists vetoing the gay pride parade.

Canada is fucked.

Anonymous%20

[quote] He follows Shariah law, so he thinks women have cooties.
Sounds like an unbiased opinion piece!

[quote]The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.
Wait, she turned down a haircut even after they offered a haircut from another barber?
She's crazy. They offered to accommodate her and she's trying to force the original guy to touch her. So wrong. Justice is not forcing people to touch you when they don't want to.

But it sounds like she would've had to wait, yeah? I mean, I don't doubt that she just made up her mind to make a fuss about it, but I wouldn't say that it was necessarily a practical offer on the barber's part (thereby not being an issue of her trying to force him to touch her).

[quote]They offered to accommodate her and she's trying to force the original guy to touch her.
No, I think her point is that a customer shouldn't have to wait two months to be accommodated, and only then because a complaint was filed.

[quote]No, I think her point is that a customer shouldn't have to wait two months to be accommodated
It sounds like it was the first time a woman had tried to get a haircut there and they weren't ready for it. It probably takes much less time to get an accommodation now.
An accommodation is really all she's owed. She doesn't have a right to force one particular barber to cut her hair.

Even if she wins the Tribunal, all the barber will do is get someone else to cut her hair.
Just like he suggested two months after the fact.
She is also forcing them to have a sign saying 'Hair cuts for both men and women'

She stormed out of the shop (after telling the barber off) without telling the barber who she is, or how to get in touch with her.
How were they to know if she was going to come back. If you had a customer tell you off to your face, would you think they come back as a customer?
Plus she left no number where could be reached, not even her name.
They thought she wouldn't be back. But back she is, with a complaint. Two months later.
That is when they offered another barber at the same place. Which she refused.

Faith McGregor says
“I am not asking that the shop start servicing all women, regardless of the type of cut requested.”
If a woman asks for a service they already provide, they should not be turned away, she says.
“It seems they are extending the scope of my complaint,” she says. “My specific request was for only the exact same cut they would provide to a man . . . We are no different from the neck up.”
Which the BARBER SHOP did by offering her another barber to cut her hair at the shop.
So they did that, but she REFUSED and is taking this to the Tribunal.

There have been blind people with seeing-eye dogs that have been not allowed taxi rides because of Muslim cab drivers whose "religion doesn't allow them to associate with dogs."
Do you think that is ok, too?

The point is that individual Barber Shop offered to accommodate her, so in essence she IS being offered the service.
The individual Taxi cab you mentioned is NOT offering that service.

Well, the taxi driver COULD "offer an olive branch" and offer the blind person a journey two months later with a different driver.
You know, if the service gets offered eventually, it makes it OK!

Rolling%20Eyes

Some people lose all common sense clinging to principles. Fuck off with these "Is someone's faith forbade touching black/gay people" shit. Tell me this: Would it be okay if their were separate toilets for white and black people? Would it be okay if there were separate toilets for gay and straight people? Would it be okay if there were separate toilets for men and women?
Show of hands who answered the same to all those three questions. And no, there are not separate toilets because women would be afraid to be sexually harassed otherwise. It's because people want separate toilets and feel it's proper. You can't just blindly equate gender with race in every single situation.
Gender discrimination bothers me greatly. This is not an example of it. This is a story of a entitled, grumpy cunt with no cultural awareness or common sense.

It's a HAIRCUT!!!!
Where do we draw the line?

[quote] Well, the taxi driver COULD "offer an olive branch" and offer the blind person a journey two months later with a different driver.
Another can would come along that would gladly take the blind person's business.
The bottom line is that the Barber Shop has said they are happy to take her business.

btw R155 if a man walked into a high end ladies salon and asked for a 'pixie cut' and all the stylists refused, saying 'We don't work on men's hair'
Is that guy being discriminated against?

[quote]Fact: While we don't like sex discrimination in any form, most of us growing up in this culture accept the Roman Catholic Church's sex discrimination as simply a fact.
If they provide a service in the public sphere, ie to non-catholics as well, they are expected to obey the law. This is why catholic orgs that have non-catholic employees can't withhold birth control from insurance plans.
Since Canada doesn't have the constitutional church/state separation we have in the US it will be interesting to see how they rule on this.

The barber is just lucky that she didn't wack him with her cane.

Muslims suck

[quote]They thought she wouldn't be back. But back she is, with a complaint. Two months later.
The OP states "She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately"
not two months later

Is that a bad thing r162?

Thanks for posting that interesting piece, R143. Maybe it would have served gay people better, on the whole, for the woman to not file.
But seriously, this barber shop's business rationale sucks. They have a great location and an elegant shop that's been frequented by celebrities and prime ministers and such.
They should expect that between the open location and their appeal, some women will come in. And they need to be prepared to have exceptionally good rapport with them, especially if they're going to turn them down.

[quote] "She filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario almost immediately"
The key word is 'almost immediately'
who knows how long it took for the Barber to receive the complaint.

There are...ways this could have worked in the Muslim's favor.

Edward%20Scissorhands%20

Gender equality is a situational "equality".

[quote]There have been blind people with seeing-eye dogs that have been not allowed taxi rides because of Muslim cab drivers whose "religion doesn't allow them to associate with dogs."
This is illegal. Taxi drivers in Toronto are required by law to take a guide dog in the car when its accompanying a blind person.
Is there a law in effect in Toronto that all haircut shops be co-ed?

If it was a Christian fundamentalist, there'd be more attacks on DL on the barber. " We are people who have value," he said. (Unlike you heathen. When we do something, or don't do something, it is holy and cannot be questioned).
The "offer," for a haircut later, was through a lawyer.
R169, the refusal of taxidriver to let a seeing eye dog in the cab has been done, it took a case to make it illegal. Wonder if it is still difficult to get cabs.

R143, innocently cites what he quotes as "an opinion piece in a Toronto newspaper" but fails to mention it from the rightwing paper The Sun and that the "journalist" is a nut who went on tour with Ann Coulter. And what is the point of what he wrote? That he hates everyone? Probably because he is sexually frustrated, like Ann Coulter.

oops, typo - should have said "We are people who have values"

R170

The bottom line is that she was offered a haircut at the barber shop, they tried to accommodate her, but she refused.
She is the one making a stink about it, not the barber.

[quote] The "offer," for a haircut later, was through a lawyer.
Link please

[quote]the refusal of taxidriver to let a seeing eye dog in the cab has been done, it took a case to make it illegal.
In what location? Not in Toronto where this woman's complaint originates.
The Blind Persons Rights Act was originally adopted in Ontario in 1970 in response to blind people being limited in housing and motel accommodations due to "no pets" policies. There wasn't "a case," there was a general lack of understanding and cultural bias against allowing pets (which is what most people once saw guide dogs as) that resulted in the blind regularly being denied the equal access and opportunity. The answer to that was the BPRA.
It has been illegal in Ontario for over 40 years to discriminate against a blind person on the basis of her using a guide dog. This is not some new thing that originated with Muslim taxi drivers.

The "offer" for a haircut later is irrelevant. His business sucks, and she doesn't know what's good for her. Both are lame.

[quote]The "offer," for a haircut later, was through a lawyer.
[quote]Link please
It's right there in the OP. She turned down their lawyer's offer, which came two months after the fact.

R177 I don't see the lawyer offering the haircut
[quote] The barbershop suggested a solution to McGregor toward the end of August, offering her a haircut from a barber willing to do so.
Where is the lawyer offering the haircut?

If he's forbidden from touching a woman outside of his family why the fuck is he a barber? You have to expect that some day a female customer could show up at some point. Also, hiding behind a notoriously bigoted religion and then feigning innocence is hypocritical bullshit.

He should hire another barber to just work Wednesdays, which can be dubbed "Lesbian Day", complete with signage that states this.
With Tori Amos albums playing in the background, scented candles burning, and cruelty-free snacks while you wait.

Exactly R180
He told the Lesbian the shop will be happy to cut her hair with another barber, but she refused.
So they are accommodating women in the shop, but she wants to make a political point.

No, he didn't offer her a haircut soon enough, so his shitty customer service shouldn't count as an accommodation.

[quote] he didn't offer her a haircut soon enough
We don't know the time that elapsed between the filing of the complaint to the time he received the complaint.

R183, Then what was the whole thing about "two months later"? I don't know, but there's a good chance he wasn't on the mark. Whenever you run a business, especially one in a good location with few indications that they need to discriminate, you just have to do it better. I'm sorry. In this culture, at least. I'm not saying she should have filed a complaint, but I would bet money that if the guy had a better attitude and conversation-steering skills, this would've been avoided.

I agree R184
This could have been avoided if he said "We do Women's hair by appointment only"

R183

She went to get a haircut in June, all of the barbers said no. The "offer" of a haircut was in late August. "It’s the principle of the matter so I turned down their lawyer’s offer."

Says her.

Well, if she went in their for a haircut in June, and an "offer" for one comes in late August, it doesn't sound like a normal offer, but one that came a lot later at the suggestion of a lawyer. A real offer would have been done that day.

Parents' outrage as transgendered woman is permitted to use the women's locker room 'exposing himself to little girls'
Colleen Francis, a transgendered student at Evergreen College, has exposed herself in the locker room to the upset of parents and girls' swim coaches
The school says Ms Francis has a right to use the women's locker room due to state law

[quote] A real offer would have been done that day.
Quiet hard to do when someone is yelling profanities at you before storming out.
She didn't even leave her name or phone number as to where she could be reached.

Where does the article say any of that, r190?

Within two months her hair would have grown longer and she might have looked like any other neighborhood hausfrau.

Several openly gay men have gotten their cut at that location, without incident. Even after telling the barber shop they are gay.

I know, right? Last time I went there, I looked at Karim, licked my lips, and said "Mmmm." And wahla - all of a sudden - I had his delicious uncut merguez in my mouth.

[quote] And wahla
voilà

If the shop has a barber who is willing to cut women's hair but doesn't work there every day, the shop should offer haircuts to women by appointment. It sounds like they didn't do that, though. Instead, they waited until a complaint was filed and then their lawyer on their behalf offered to have someone cut her hair.

Only slaves are forced to provide service to people.

[quote] Only slaves are forced to provide service to people.
Yes. Which makes it okay if the girl behind the counter at McDonalds decides to walk off in the middle of your trying to place an order. In fact, it's ok if she goes for a cigarette, makes a phone call, gets fucked, and then comes back to finish taking your order. Because anything less would be tantamount to SLAVERY.

And only barbarians or the unintelligent don't make preparations for their business to function, culturally and otherwise, in their given context.

If the barber had refused to cut the hair of a male because he was gay, you all would not be defending his action.

He didn't refuse to cut her hair because she is gay.

What would be the reaction if he refused to cut a man's hair?

can I get a shave now

KD%20Lang

I'll be there lickety-split, R203.

Cindy%20Crawford

See, those girls just wanna have fun.

R203 = Wayne Newton

[quote]What would be the reaction if he refused to cut a man's hair?
That's be rather silly, refusing to cut a man's hair at a men's barber shop. Why don't you stick to reality, dear?

r207, perhaps you'd like to answer that question?

This would be like forcing a priest to marry a gay couple. That couple can be married by anyone with a license who is willing, and just because a priest performs marriages doesn't mean he is obligated to marry anyone who asks.

i think the barber is right. honestly, it wouldn't be fair for a someone to have to break his religion just so that she can make her point. seems kind'a mean in my opinion.
i agree that you shouldn't discriminate against people, but seriously it is a men's barbershop, that's probably why the muslim men work there, so they don't have to cut women's hair. they could make much more money running a salon.
honestly, there are more women's salons and places to get your haircut than there are men's barbershops. of all the areas where we are discriminated against, this is not one of them.

Serious question...
Does anyone know the name of the hairstyle that so many young women wear these days, where it's long or shoulder length on one side, then short and combed back (or just short and straight) like a man's, on the other side?

If it were an exclusively or mostly Muslim area of town, it would be more understandable.
I worked at a popular five-star salon that catered to wealthy white women who wanted to get away from their husbands for the day. Nonetheless, the owners made sure to build a diverse staff and a diverse rotation, *just* for potential customer service situations. We were not allowed to turn anyone down from making an appointment: not even weirdo guys who enjoyed their foot massages way too much, or one exceptionally creepy dude who would make hair appointments, come in to basically flirt with the stylist(s) for 5 minutes, then leave without a haircut. When we sensed these sorts of things, we would solve them by providing well-trained male staff to handle these situations, and so on. And this is just one of thousands of ways that either diversifying your customer service policies and/or diversifying your staff can save your ass if your store is just hanging out in the public arena.

No one cares R212.

R213, You can read it or not, queen. This whole thread is basically a back-and-forth with no resolve. If we're going to post opinions, we might as well state them with certainty and real-life situations that substantiate our claims.

no one should be forced to do anything

Fair enough, but then Christian women should be able to shoo you out of their place of business without getting any whiny backlash.

[quote]Just to play Devil's advocate what about high end women's salons who don't do men's hair?
I've never heard of a women's hair salon refusing to take male clients. Is there such a place in North America?

The Alliance Defending Freedom is not letting having one of their lawyers being arrested for child pornography stop them from pushing their anti-gay agenda on Maine, Maryland and Washington by [bold]telling the officials in each state that they can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. According to the ADF, these officials do not have to ‘violate their faith or conscience’ by issuing the licenses, but can, instead, delegate that to someone else.[/bold]

I side with the barber. It's not like that lesbian couldn't go elsewhere. This whole thing is a rather pointless argument. Not like every barber is going to have an issue chopping off your hair lady. And as a straight girl with shoulder length hair I have to wonder why you would want to chop off your own gorgeous long locks. Honestly girls with long hair don't realize how lucky they are. I've tried so many hair growth options but none of them ever work.

Anonymous

Why are lesbians so obsessed with becoming butch bitches? You're lesbians not men in women bodies.

People should be forced to do everything. Really, literally everything. Complete anarchy would be good for a change. Shake things up a little.

Uep

If you are not willing to serve the public, and that means ALL of the public, you should not be in business. Christian bakery, Muslim barbershop. Same difference.

Oh look, a humorless dyke.

What%20a%20novelty

What kind of idiot are you R220? I'm so tired of "straight girls" infesting this board with their (sometimes subtle) homophobic bullshit. Listen, sweetheart, frequenting a gay board doesn't make you an ally or gay friendly.

I feel sorry for you gay girls. It seems every time a gay woman makes the press she's some fat dyke with a man's haircut.
I'm a gay man, my sister is gay and she is beautiful - elegant.
The dyke (bet she's fat) in this case is useless.

Here in Houston many of the Muslim establishments have their signs in Arabic. Lets us non-muslims know that they don't want us in there & it's fine by me.
I still go to the Pakistani restaurants though. That shit is tasty.

@R224: Gay man here. Don't see the difference between a barber shop that won't serve women, a bakery that won't serve gay people or a whites only lunch counter in the Jim Crow South.

Just to update people..
During a closed-door mediation session Friday, Faith McGregor and barbershop owner Omar Mahrouk came to an “arrangement” that satisfied them both, thus putting the controversial complaint to rest.
Both Ms. McGregor and Mr. Mahrouk signed a confidentiality agreement that bars them from sharing any details — common practice when a conflict ends in mediation instead of moving on to an actual tribunal. But both expressed relief in the process.

To answer an earlier post - no, I don't think there are any women's salons that don't take male clients. Not in the US, anyway.

R230 thx for the laugh

Needlessly provocative title, OP. The issue is a cultural one. Really, this time. I know people around her like to throw that around to excuse sexism and other 'isms displayed in the Muslim world. In this case, I definitely side with the barbers. It has nothing to do with lesbians or male haircuts.

Unless those guys were giving haircuts to more feminine women, then throw out what I said. It would still be their right to deny her a haircut and it would be her right to persuade people to stop giving them their money.

Discrimination based on culture. Hmmm. No. The American South believed segregation was appropriate based on their culture. The reason people defend discriminatory practices by Muslims is because it's a RELIGION. I don't care if it's your culture or your belief in magic and an invisible sky friend. It's wrong.

How many who side with the barber also sides with the bakery that refused to bake for a gay wedding because of the owner's beliefs about gays and gay marriage?

Sorry. didn't notice my point about barber:christian bakery was already made a couple of times.
But I am shocked by how many side with the bakery, and gay men's misogyny.