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Oh, so that's all it takes? Wow, but you really don't understand economics, do you? We don't "dedicate resources" in order to turn out doctors. People go to medical school because they have the aptitude and desire to become doctors. You cannot increase people's aptitudes, and you cannot force them to go through the years of study, internship and residency required. They have to want to do it. The only way that you can create more doctors is to lower the requirements so that more people qualify for the standards.

By Letitia Stein, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Thursday, November 15, 2012

Amid growing concerns about a looming shortage of doctors, the HCA hospital chain plans to begin training hundreds of additional physicians in the Tampa Bay area and across Florida.

Beginning in July 2014, the nation's largest for-profit hospital chain plans a major expansion of its medical residency programs statewide, said Peter Marmerstein, HCA west Florida division president, in an interview on Wednesday.

By Letitia Stein, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Thursday, November 15, 2012

Amid growing concerns about a looming shortage of doctors, the HCA hospital chain plans to begin training hundreds of additional physicians in the Tampa Bay area and across Florida.

Beginning in July 2014, the nation's largest for-profit hospital chain plans a major expansion of its medical residency programs statewide, said Peter Marmerstein, HCA west Florida division president, in an interview on Wednesday.

You remind me of the guy who jumped out of a window, and all the way down kept repeating "so far, so good." Mandating additional slots is easy. I said that before. But filling those slots is the hard part, and keeping those positions filled over the lifetime of the program is even harder.
You ignored this when I posted it before, but once again, I draw your attention to what will happen in the future, as demonstrated by Britain's NHS:

NHS facing 'massive loss' of doctors overseas
The NHS faces “a massive potential loss” of junior doctors overseas due to plummeting morale caused by problems with training and the ongoing dispute over pensions, the British Medical Association has warned.

Dr Ben Molyneux, incoming chairman of the union’s junior doctors’ committee, said a “perfect storm” was eroding the quality of medical training which, with other problems, was resulting in a “brain drain” to countries like Australia, New Zealand and the US.

He said: “Huge numbers are going abroad after their first two years of foundation training.

“Significant numbers go every year and these numbers are increasing.

“Lots do come back but some don’t, and the risk here is there’s a brain drain to elsewhere, if we can’t retain our own workforce.”

The economic climate and the Government’s controversial health reforms had combined to create “a perfect storm for the potential erosion of high quality medical training”, he said.

One example of problems was trainees in Kent, Surrey and Sussex being denied the chance to do the placements they wanted due to short staffing, he said.

Education and training had been “bolted on” to the Health and Social Care Act, he claimed, “and we are trying to make things fit”.

More and more “home grown” medical graduates were also failing to secure NHS jobs, he said, due to a long-term increase in medical students and a rise in foreign applicants.

He continued: “A recent BMA survey of junior doctors’ career intentions showed that half of those questioned said they were more likely to leave the NHS to work overseas after training compared to two years ago.

“This would represent a massive potential loss to the NHS.

“Continued pay freezes and the raid on doctors’ pensions will further demoralise a profession who face an intense and lengthy training programme.”

To train a medical student for five or six years, to the point they are ready for their first day’s work in hospital, costs the state about £250,000.

Dr Molyneux, a GP trainee, said morale was the lowest he had personally seen it.

“I love my job, but it’s very difficult when confronted day in, day out with another problem," he said

And, as I said before, expansion of the programs doesn't mean that the quality will be maintained. In order to fill those slots, you will end up taking students who wouldn't have made the cut previously. Diminishing standards will lead to inferior providers in the long run. And, as the mandates on doctors increase the pay decreases, you'll have to lower those standards even more as doctors leave the system.

You remind me of the guy who jumped out of a window, and all the way down kept repeating "so far, so good." Mandating additional slots is easy. I said that before. But filling those slots is the hard part, and keeping those positions filled over the lifetime of the program is even harder.
You ignored this when I posted it before, but once again, I draw your attention to what will happen in the future, as demonstrated by Britain's NHS:

NHS facing 'massive loss' of doctors overseas
The NHS faces “a massive potential loss” of junior doctors overseas due to plummeting morale caused by problems with training and the ongoing dispute over pensions, the British Medical Association has warned.

Dr Ben Molyneux, incoming chairman of the union’s junior doctors’ committee, said a “perfect storm” was eroding the quality of medical training which, with other problems, was resulting in a “brain drain” to countries like Australia, New Zealand and the US.

He said: “Huge numbers are going abroad after their first two years of foundation training.

“Significant numbers go every year and these numbers are increasing.

“Lots do come back but some don’t, and the risk here is there’s a brain drain to elsewhere, if we can’t retain our own workforce.”

The economic climate and the Government’s controversial health reforms had combined to create “a perfect storm for the potential erosion of high quality medical training”, he said.

One example of problems was trainees in Kent, Surrey and Sussex being denied the chance to do the placements they wanted due to short staffing, he said.

Education and training had been “bolted on” to the Health and Social Care Act, he claimed, “and we are trying to make things fit”.

More and more “home grown” medical graduates were also failing to secure NHS jobs, he said, due to a long-term increase in medical students and a rise in foreign applicants.

He continued: “A recent BMA survey of junior doctors’ career intentions showed that half of those questioned said they were more likely to leave the NHS to work overseas after training compared to two years ago.

“This would represent a massive potential loss to the NHS.

“Continued pay freezes and the raid on doctors’ pensions will further demoralise a profession who face an intense and lengthy training programme.”

To train a medical student for five or six years, to the point they are ready for their first day’s work in hospital, costs the state about £250,000.

Dr Molyneux, a GP trainee, said morale was the lowest he had personally seen it.

“I love my job, but it’s very difficult when confronted day in, day out with another problem," he said

And, as I said before, expansion of the programs doesn't mean that the quality will be maintained. In order to fill those slots, you will end up taking students who wouldn't have made the cut previously. Diminishing standards will lead to inferior providers in the long run. And, as the mandates on doctors increase the pay decreases, you'll have to lower those standards even more as doctors leave the system.

And you are engaging in confirmation bias. As you know, at present "not making the cut" for a medical school in the US doesn't mean that you are a dullard. Haven't we seen case after case of highly qualified people being turned away from US medical schools because they don't conform to a political or capricious selection process? Some of these people go on to schools elsewhere, come back and take the tests and become doctors in the US. Others fall out.

My sister's boyfriend in college, a East Indian American citizen, couldn't get into medical school in the US. He went to India, completed school there and is now a doctor in Boston. Is he necessarily a worse doctor than a "diversity candidate" at Georgetown or Howard University? Is he less of a doctor than one who got in because he had identical grades but some social aspect or status which put him in the acceptance category?

Honestly, you remind of the DU crowd sometimes. You are so wrapped up in doctrine that if reality is in conflict with your philosophy, you simply start chanting the mantras of ersatz capitalism theory as you understand it (but don't practice it).

And you are engaging in confirmation bias. As you know, at present "not making the cut" for a medical school in the US doesn't mean that you are a dullard. Haven't we seen case after case of highly qualified people being turned away from US medical schools because they don't conform to a political or capricious selection process? Some of these people go on to schools elsewhere, come back and take the tests and become doctors in the US. Others fall out.

My sister's boyfriend in college, a East Indian American citizen, couldn't get into medical school in the US. He went to India, completed school there and is now a doctor in Boston. Is he necessarily a worse doctor than a "diversity candidate" at Georgetown or Howard University? Is he less of a doctor than one who got in because he had identical grades but some social aspect or status which put him in the acceptance category?

So, what you are saying is that because liberals have corrupted the college entrance process, we should also allow them to apply their skills to the health care industry? How exactly does that work?

You are comparing apples to oranges. The inclusion of irrelevant criteria to college admissions has produced inferior graduates (as has been demonstrated repeatedly), but this doesn't mean that expanding the base to include more admissions is going to improve the quality of graduates. If you increase the number of persons going into colleges by expanding the number of seats, you are lowering the entrance requirements. We've seen this in the military during the Vietnam era, when McNamara lowered the requirements for enlistment, to include lower ASVAB scores, and the commissioning programs were directed to produce more officers, regardless of how. The end result was a the inclusion of Soldiers and officers whose presence was, at best, detrimental to the functions of the institution (that is to say, they were dumber than a bag of hammers), with corresponding failures of leadership and mission. One of the first things that the DOD did in the 80's was raise the admissions standards. As a result, we have the most educated, capable and intelligent military that any nation has ever fielded.

Originally Posted by Novaheart

Honestly, you remind of the DU crowd sometimes. You are so wrapped up in doctrine that if reality is in conflict with your philosophy, you simply start chanting the mantras of ersatz capitalism theory as you understand it (but don't practice it).

Doctrine? I provided you with a concrete example of the current brain drain in Britain, show you actual examples of issues within TriCare that will be exacerbated by expansion of government control, and you ignore those while making pie in the sky claims as to the virtues of Single Payer systems which have never been realized in any of them. If anyone is wrapped up in doctrine, it's you. And, I do practice the theory that I preach, or more importantly, I see it practiced on me. TriCare is Single Payer in microcosm, and it has serious problems which you refuse to discuss. We cannot get doctors to join the program. We have shortages of practictioners throughout the system. Waiting times are longer than in private systems. The DOD is notoriously stingy with new treatments and takes far longer to offer them than the private sector. This is the way that these programs work, and your delusional belief in Single Payer persists despite the evidence offered by those of us who have experienced it.

Honestly, you remind of the DU crowd sometimes. You are so wrapped up in doctrine that if reality is in conflict with your philosophy, you simply start chanting the mantras of ersatz capitalism theory as you understand it (but don't practice it).

This country is such a mess. Sometimes when I read news stories coming out of the ME, I wonder if 40-50 years of being educated (aka "indoctrinated") under totalitarian regimes have warped people more than following a crazy interpretation of the Koran. Over there, sometimes the dissenters are more nuts than the the State. "Free us from the brutal tyranny of <insert ME dictator>! He tortures his citizens! He commits genocide! He denies us our civil rights! He steals hundreds of millions from his people! He prevents us from molesting our daughters and planning terrorist attacks! He helps those dirty Jews in their quest for one-world government!" ... and you're like... wait, what?!

Anyway, lots of indoctrination going on in the US too. You just can't see it when you live it.