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Cap vs Wondy Part Three

Cap vs Wondy Part Three

The sacrifice of the two Steves

Some people say that the sacrifice of Steve Rogers and Steve Trevor is exactly the same. And while they’re similar, the contrasts between them show how different these movies are. We know that Rogers is going to survive--that’s telegraphed at the beginning of the movie--so the stakes aren’t as high; we don’t know if Trevor survives. Certainly he believes he’s going to die and yet that’s the sacrifice he’s willing to make.

Rogers is on board some fake scientifically advanced air transport; Trevor is flying a realistic WW I airplane, with all the technical limitations of the period. Rogers has a potential girl friend in Agent Carter but their relationship takes up very little screen time; Trevor’s relationship with Diana is the main thread of the movie, so his sacrifice means more and these scenes are intercut with Diana battling Ares--so even if you’re critical of that goddess v god battle, those character-driven moments for Steve and Diana give the finale its emotional weight.

The war buddies

The romance that's more compelling in CATFA is the one between Rogers and Barnes. I wanted the movie to go there. There is so much sexual tension between them, that Marvel would have won points for itself if they just let that love declare itself on screen. Peggy appears to be a beard--someone to distract us from the chemistry between Cap and Bucky. And yet the way that Bucky “dies” is underwhelming--there’s not a lot of pay-off from that turn in the plot. I guess this is further explored in THE WINTER SOLDIER but I haven’t seen that movie.

Whereas, there are so many relationships in WW given their time to play out on screen. Because Patty Jenkins pays attention to the characters, their experience means more to us as an audience. Trevor’s irregulars each get their moments. Whereas the Howling Commandos (minus key character Sgt. Fury) never get developed and only “Dum Dum” Dugan has any degree of presence (mostly unspoken).

I liked the end credits for CATFA with the period style posters, but again this was something they could have used at the beginning of the movie to set the tone, instead of at the end where it serves no useful purpose. But it's nice to look at and better than the commercial that comes after it.

So the Steve Rogers movie succeeds in setting up plots for development in future movies. But as a stand alone movie, as an integral piece of art, the origin story of Princess Diana is far superior.

The movie is decent enough, deserves praise but there was no way this thing was going to fail no matter what because of the momentum behind it with various causes and such. Even if it was a disaster of a movie it would've been championed and so the fact that it was actually a decent movie catapulted it way above it's actual level.

Steve Trevor and his band of misfits was lacking, The Ares villain was weak and dragged on way too much, Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman felt controlled by power rather than being powerful... when she jumped like 50 feet there was no sense that it was a powerful Wonder Woman doing it but rather a guiding force telling you she's this powerful. I didn't think Gal Gadot was a great choice for Wonder Woman but to her credit she did kind of win me over with her charming personality to where it's like maybe she isn't perfect but i can live with it, similar to Ezra Miller and Flash, that being said her Wonder Woman isn't the best and most wondrous Wonder Woman i can imagine and doesn't give me feeling of strength and power. It's more like the equivalent that of being born rich in having these God powers to play with than an inner power. I did like the portrayal of how passionate she was in refusing not to save that village and was willing to sacrifice herself for something others didn't think was worth it, which felt true to character and so if there's more building done to the character in sequels it might work out to where some of the inner power comes out.

I feel like the sequel might be better now that the foundation is set and so there is potential for this movie franchise but the first movie is definitely overrated in my opinion. Good movie/not great. It doesn't compare overall with the Marvel movies for example/it might compare from a simple line of thinking trying to make a good movie and nothing more but when taking everything into consideration it's a different story (and i'm no Marvel fanboy). If you're only comparing DC movies it's probably the best DC movie outside of Nolan's films (but that's also not saying much). I think Justice League, Aquaman, Flash and Batgirl (if that's still a thing) have some serious potential though and could easily surpass it on the DC side.

Last edited by SXVA; 10-12-2017 at 04:51 AM.

I wanna ditch the logical... don't let me let you go...., living for the only thing i know, hanging by a moment... nom nom coffee nom nom tea.

Surely people can be trusted to form their own opinions. I don't understand this second-guessing other people--as if they must not know what they're talking about. I trust that if someone doesn't like WONDER WOMAN or feels it's merely good not great, then they have worked that out in their mind from having watched the movie and applying their own standards to the movie. Just as I love the movie and hold it in high regard because I have actually thought about it seriously and given it a generous amount of scrutiny. Having a different opinion from you doesn't automatically mean someone is stupid or uninformed or being manipulated by outside forces.

Well, this movie's value has been artificially inflated because of all the implications with féminisme and now the Oscars campain, no one can denies it.
Doesn't mean it's not enjoyable (it is) nor decent (it is too), but that's no revolution either tbh.
No one is second-guessing you, it's just a matter of differing opinion.
And as I said, WW did came after a string of very divisive, mediocre DC properties, so the story just making sense and standing on its own was a huge win imo.

"The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."

Surely people can be trusted to form their own opinions. I don't understand this second-guessing other people--as if they must not know what they're talking about. I trust that if someone doesn't like WONDER WOMAN or feels it's merely good not great, then they have worked that out in their mind from having watched the movie and applying their own standards to the movie. Just as I love the movie and hold it in high regard because I have actually thought about it seriously and given it a generous amount of scrutiny. Having a different opinion from you doesn't automatically mean someone is stupid or uninformed or being manipulated by outside forces.

How dare you bring reason into this thread!!

"Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

Well, this movie's value has been artificially inflated because of all the implications with féminisme and now the Oscars campain, no one can denies it.
Doesn't mean it's not enjoyable (it is) nor decent (it is too), but that's no revolution either tbh.
No one is second-guessing you, it's just a matter of differing opinion.
And as I said, WW did came after a string of very divisive, mediocre DC properties, so the story just making sense and standing on its own was a huge win imo.

It is a) the first Wonder Woman movie ever made b) the first live action Wonder Woman since Linda Carter c) the first DC movie that doesn't Star a Batman or Superman character that is successful and d) the first female led superhero movie to be critically and financially successful. That's plenty revolutionary

I wouldn't call it artificial. I think that A HARD DAY'S NIGHT is a truly great movie. Party because of the way its filmed and the inventive dialogue but also because of the iconic importance of the Beatles. It gains in importance as it becomes part of history. And that's all tied into the art.

Sergio Leone cast Henry Fonda in ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, because he knew that having Fonda's face on the screen playing that role would have meaning beyond what is in the story. You're shocked by the movie because it's Henry Fonda there with his beautfiul blue eyes.

The fact that WW begins with scenes of women as powerful and inspiring individuals meant something to a lot of women. I got to have my male super-heroes when I was a kid. I know how empowering that was and how it changed my life. I take glee in seeing women and girls moved and inspired by this film. That's a valid reason for the movie to have the success it's had. And it is part of the art.