I'm a Pakistani-Canadian who blogs about sexuality in South Asia, religion & politics.
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Wednesday, August 8, 2012

Incest, Orgies & Swingers....in Pakistan?!

On a lighter note from the last post; Congrats on making it past half of Ramadan to my open-minded Muslim readers, and uhh... happy Wednesday to all the others!

I was debating whether to do this post during Ramadan or not....because I know some of you refrain from reading the blog while fasting....and this post is just far too interesting to miss out on....

but then I thought, what the heck, If you're reading words penned by a sinner like me anyway, then you'll find a way to read the post - Whether you wait till after you've broken your fast or till after Ramadan....(OR you're just a hell bound heathen)....

I will point out one thing though, if you have issues with the sinful nature of this post - wtf are you doing here in the first place?

* * *

So, a couple of months ago I got the most interesting email in my inbox:

Hi,
Eiynah.

I found out about your
blog a couple of days before through a friend and was really hooked to it.
Maybe its just me but you haven't done a post on swinging
culture/groupies/incest, I have participated multiple times in those three
types of sex so if you ever decide you wanted to know more about the pakistani
culture of it, me and my partner will be more than happy to answer your
questions anonymously.

Hi A.... I'd love to
do a post on all of those things you've mentioned.. but havent come across any
people that are willing to talk about it openly....
i'm thrilled that u are, especially because i have received several emails from
people that want to read more about incest. But none that r willing to open up
about it...

* * *

So naturally, I did what I do best; I interviewed her and her boyfriend. Apart from my standard interview, I wrote out some specific questions for the couple considering their unique situation... so lets start with those.

(I begin with questions about incest because as surprising as it may seem, I've received several emails asking me to write something about it. And honestly, thats a concept so unfamiliar and so unimaginable to me- that I can't really write much about it on my own, at least Aleena was willing to open up. I appreciate the courage that may have taken....and though I'm not here to judge at all.... just typing out the word has made me cringe. I'm not wired to be able to understand it - no matter how many cool shows like Game of Thrones feature it...it still triggers a feeling of repulsion in me, as I'm sure it does with most people.. It does however, make me curious...as to what makes someone's mind wander in that direction....)

Aleena, Female, 20

Have you ever had any thoughts about or experiences with incest?Yes to both. I’ve had sex with my cousin. Growing up I started to get
more and more fussy about it. What’s this all bout, what does it feel like, why was
no one telling me about this? So I propositioned (seduced in a manner) one of my
nicer cousins about exploring it out, and hence it happened. I was hooked and
we did it a couple of times whenever his family went out and I went to his
place to get‘tutored’At first I used to think a lot about my mom,
being a single mom how’d she relieve herself. I have fantasized about her. Not
ashamed to admit, if my mom was as liberal as I was I would have no issues
making out or indulging in lesbian sex with her. She’s a beautiful woman and
she needs to be appreciated. I don’t care what others think about it.How do you feel about‘incest’
in general?I feel about it the same as other types of sex, All types of sex are
fine as long as its consensual. I guess I’m fine with indulging in incest if
given the chance, I’d indulge with almost every female member, no issues. With
males, not so much. I would never do it with a family member way older
than me. I don’t mind cousins.Do you think it occurs in Pakistan more than other countries? Why?Its more to do with us being resourceful, take what you can. That’s what
happened with me, I wanted to explore and had no one that I trusted to explore
with hence I resorted to members in my own family. I’m pretty sure if I could
have had the option of doing it with someone else back then (ie a boyfriend) I
wouldn’t have done with it my cousin.Have you ever had any experience with group sex?I’m a regular participant in group sex. Me and my boyfriend are regular
participants in group sex. We do it every week and its an amazing thrill,
everyone should try it at least once.Would you say there is an underground scene for those interested in
group sex, in Pakistan?There is, but group sex is
about more than availability, its about trusting the other couples and privacy.
There’s definitely a group sex scene in Pakistan but its hard to find trusting
couples and a location to do it in.There have been instances where the couples
were filmed secretly and blackmailed, sometimes they were drugged and looted
and raped. You have to have understanding with other couples, us for instance
have a understanding of always using condoms, no matter what. So its all about
trust. We were lucky to find these couples in our University so we don’t have
any trust issues, our locations are usually owned by some of our couples’s
contacts and are mostly secluded with no human element nearby.(You're so young Aleena, but wise to sress the safety and trust element. Especially in a country like Pakistan where sex is so taboo, people could really exploit someone using a situation such as the one you describe. I would still say be VERY very careful...do as much background research on the people involved as you can....especially if you're letting a new couple into the group, i don't know what other precautions to tell you to take in terms of safety really...since I have no experience, but its a good idea to not let your guard down. Also, I'm glad you always use condoms. Its not worth it to risk disease and pregnancy. So keep doing what you're doing, and then some).How did you become involved in group sex?Me and him go to the same university, at first we were kinda loners and
sticking with each other and not talking to other people. So it all started
with one girl who started being friendly with me and him, she started using
sexual innuendos in everyday conversations to test the waters about our
sexuality and how open-minded we were. A couple of weeks later she actually told
me in private about the group sex scene going on, even though I was immensely
turned on by group sex I was shocked at first that yeh Scarf wali participates
in group sex? Woah. She told me to talk to my bf about it and discuss it and
that we didn’t have to participate and could just watch. Me and him spoke about
it and agreed to go watch at first, that’s when we realized that it was such a
huge turn-on being watched/watching. I was fine with interaction with other
guys as long as it didn’t result in penetration, didn’t mind my boyfriend doing
it with others so we told that to the other couples and they were okay with it.
So it happened and it was amazing. Best sex we’ve had.(Ummm what?! Are you saying the girl who first propositioned you wore a scarf on her head? I always have trouble relating to that kind of inconsistency)Was it difficult to do, the first time around? What were you feeling?Our first time we just let them start amongst themselves, we watched for
a bit and opened up a little while later, just orally though. After a few
minutes we opened up a bit more and had it in front of them, it was so amazing.
I guess it was a bit difficult when the first time the other girl came over to
him and did it with him but I went over to the other guys and soon the jealousy
was gone.Have you had any experiences with swapping/swinging?I once tried it during one of our arrangements and allowed him to take
another girl to a room while I went with the other guy, I tried but I could let
him actually fuck me so I told him and gladly our friends are understanding so
he didn’t force and we just ended it with Oral Sex. My boyfriend didn’t mind
and he had fun with her (Men *sigh* :p)If so, have you experienced any jealousy and how do you cope with such
feelings?It happened the first time
after I kinda calmed down and realized that even though he was doing her he
still loved me and cared for me. I did tell him that it was bugging me that he
took the girls in private, but he’s such a sweetheart that he said we’d stop right
away but I didn’t want that so we decided not to do it privately. Like I’ve
said, its all about trust, and we trust each other a lot.

Was it you or your partner who brought it up the first time…and what was
your/their response?

I brought the news to him
and he just said that it did turn him on and if he wanted we could try it. I
was pretty suspicious so I said we’d watch first and he agreed, thankfully I
opened up and we did it.

Is there an actual‘swinging’
scene in Pakistan?And how would one go about finding it?There is, you just need to know right people. Swinging differs on
quality if you want a civilized couple you’ll need to look really hard, there
are some cafes etc that you can find people in. I don’t know which because
we’ve never needed them because of the couples we already know.If you are looking for cheap sex with two other
people, you can just google search and there are lots of couples online, but
I’d take my caution first. Some of them do exploit others,
drugging/looting/raping etc.Only advice I’d give is insist on meeting the couple first in a cafe or something and get to know them before you trust them with your partner.(Yes, stressing safety is key here.. I don't think it would be a wise idea to just meet people from a google search.... the drugging/looting/raping sounds horrific - but not surprising unfortunately, so it's probably best that you go through references for this kind of activity, and actually 'know' the people beforehand)

What are your thoughts on group sex/swinging in general?Group sex and swinging are fun as long as the people associated with it
are trustworthy and honest people. If you do find a consenting trustworthy
couple, don’t give up the chance to try it out. Its amazing. Add a little spice
to your life you won’t regret it :)Do you ever have any feelings of guilt associated with partaking in the
activities mentioned above?Guilt? Never. I had some difficulty coping with sharing my boyfriend
with someone else but I got over it because me and him have a really strong
trust-bond and that’s all its about, Trust. Never felt guilty of myself and
never will.

(a google search did bring up some ads! whaddayaknow)

* * *

Now for the male perspective. Here are Aleena's boyfriend's answers:

Faraz, Male, 20Have you ever had any thoughts about or experiences with incest?I have touched, shown, seen my cousins, that’s about it.How do you feel about‘incest’ in general?People like doing it. Most
of friends have a thing for their sisters etc, I don’t mind incest as long it
doesn’t happen in your own family.(wow, did u say 'most' of your friends have a thing for their sisters? and they openly admit this? You know, that's actually quite unexpected [and disturbing] ... I was starting to get the feeling that incest is more common than I think in Pakistan, but I didn't expect anyone to say that 'most' of any group had a thing for it. Also, when u say u don't mind it as long as it doesn't happen in your own family -- i think thats the very definition of incest... so obviously... you perhaps have a bit of an issue with it as well.... I get that you're probably referring to it being ok as long as its with cousins etc. But in the context of Pakistani society, we can't really call sex amongst cousins 'incest' since its common practice for cousins to get married....but of course if you look at it from a Western perspective it most definitely is. I was raised to think of my cousins as siblings, but I don't think most people in Pakistan are....whatever the genetic disadvantages may be...but that's another post on its own.)

Do you think it occurs in Pakistan more than other countries? Why?

Has to be the fact that your average joe is scared of doing a girl he
doesn’t know and get beaten up by her family. So he resorts to people he
already knows. Most people here can’t have sex w/o being crucified for it. So
they rely on people they already trust I guess.Have you ever had any experience with group sex?I do participate in group sex. Me and my girlfriend are part of a group
that has sex together. They all are from our university.Would you say there is an underground scene for those interested in group sex, in Pakistan?Defo, just gotta know the right people who are trustworthy and willing.
Just google it up and you’ll see ad’s etc.('Trustworthy' being the operative word, you can never be too safe in these situations... especially in Pakistan)How did you become involved in group sex?We got offered to join by
the group in our University. So we just went and liked it. Being watched while
having sex was such a thrill that we got hooked.Was it difficult to do, the first time around? What were you feeling?Was it difficult for me? Nope.
The couples we were with were really friendly and didn’t try to force so that
helped. We let them start first and got comfortable watching them so we decided
to try having sex on subsequent weeks. Gotta say, loved it.Have you had any experiences with swapping/swinging?Well swapping per se. Not so much. Aleena, doesn’t like having other men
inside her so she just offers oral to the guy we’re swapping with. So that’s
that. Of course time to time she does let me do one of the other girls, so its
like a partial swing. Still fun though.If so, have you experienced any jealousy and how do you cope with such feelings?Jealousy, first time only, after that it subsided and we got over it. I
understand that she’s mine and its just sex. She understands too. When we first
swapped she did have issues with me taking the other girl private, so we don’t
swap private anymore. We’re both very understanding and if something she
doesn’t like she just tells me.Was it you or your partner who brought it up the first time…and what was your/their response?Well, the girl from Uni
asked Aleena first and she told me so she was pretty thrilled about it,‘could be just like porn, but with
real people’ so we talked about it, that would she mind if I had someone else,
would I mind etc. Turns out we didnt and actually liked the idea a lot. I still
wanted to see the couples if they were trustworthy, if we’d have privacy etc.Is there an actual‘swinging’ scene in Pakistan?And how would one go about finding it?Kind of is. Should be I
guess. You can just google for potential suitors or place ad’s on adult
pakistani sites. But that won’t tell you about the people you’ll be with you
its sort of a huge gamble. Best bet is to get people you know, proposition
them, who knows, they might be into it too.What are your thoughts on group sex/swinging in general?Well for me I love group
sex more than any other kind, I don’t know why. Maybe its being watched, maybe
its because of experimentation, maybe its the feel or seeing other people have
sex while you are. Group sex and swinging are usually considerd the‘wrong’ types of sex because of
certain scandals etc. But if done with the trustworthy people you’ll have a lot
of fun.Do you ever have any feelings of guilt associated with partaking in the activities mentioned above?Guilt? Never. The people we are with are extremely nice and friendly.
Only way I’ll feel guilt if we get forced to do something.---------------------------------------------Well, there ya have it folks....that was quite a loaded interview. Thank you to both Aleena and Faraz for being so open and sharing their experiences so that others may learn. Here are some key points to take away from this post (feel free to add more key points in the comments section below):1) A seemingly large number of our population is interested in or at least intrigued by the idea of incest. :o2) Group sex and swinging with strangers is almost always a risk... especially in Pakistan, so try to get to know the people beforehand. Do your research. Make sure you have a safe location, and make sure you go with a trusted partner. Googling for random partners is not the answer here. 3) Condoms!! Safe sex is always important, but more so than ever in group situations. 4) Have a pre-arranged set of rules with your partner, so there is no confusion once you're actually in the situation. Oh- and if you have any more questions for Aleena/Faraz you can post them in the comments section, and I'll try to get them to respond. The rest of Aleena's interview, next time!

29 comments:

Incest is the part that made me sick. The cousins bit I can understand because it is permissible in Islam so it is okay religiously. I can't believe the other incestuous thoughts though. Also, totally didn't know about these swingers parties!

I still haven't made up my mind about incest and whether I'd be accepting of it or not. I know I am against it for myself and that I'm not wired that way, but I don't know how I'd react if I knew someone indulging in an incestuous relationship. I feel like I should accept it because it's something that has been there since time immemorial, but my personal (more visceral) reaction to it overshadows this idea completely. Interesting debate though - would like to see more on this in the future.

There you've done it Eiynah, you've just helped me get one step closer to hell. The scarf wali wasn't surprising at all, as I know of bearded maulvis-cum-child molesters. (keeping in mind the fact that the beard is mostly a matter of choice whereas the scarf is commonly forced upon a girl) Hence the hypocrisy, which is the very thread of our national fabric, is not very surprising at all.

The sexual abuse posts were by far the most disturbing ones but this one was gross, even though I pretend being very open and liberal but what was that about someone having a thing for their sister. Yew!

Okay im down with the swinging and group thing, even if it aint my scene - its just cus its slightly creepy that its in Pakistan ya know, but Jesus Fuckin Christ! Incest? Does it qualify for a Oedipus Complex? I dont think so, but she wanted to do her own mother!!

Great post Eiynah! My two cents: people who choose to swing/swap and are consenting...good for them! But incest (even if consenting)?!?! My brain does not compute. Being attracted to siblings or parents is tooo freaking weird a thought, and I consider myself to be pretty open minded.

I don't find incest so darn freaking. In fact, it doesn't get any sort of emotional response out of me at all, just mild intellectual curiosity, like Eiynah's. I am indifferent to it; and as the quote goes, the opposite of Love is not Hate...

Group sex/swinging? It does get an emotional response out of me. A big one. I've tried non-exclusive, polyamorous relationships. Guess who buckled out first? I'm sure they work out well for some people, but not me; I'm prone to jealousy and conversely, feeling detached (call it the sexual bystander effect). It got so emotionally taxing that I just ended up choosing one person I really liked, and ditching the rest abruptly. :/

...Of course, seeing as how I seem to be dating yet another person alongside my steady relationship, I think I may have latched on to this kind experimentation as a safe way to find someone new without prematurely letting go of who I already have. (-_-)

haha mine is not just mild intellectual curiousity.. i was very disturbed by the incest stuff actually. Just tried not to let my biases come through in my post. I try to write as non judgementally as I can

I believe this website is another of western and Indian tricks to introduce indecency and shamelessness in our society. What a couple does in university or what a few people think can never be a representative of whole society because most of Pakistan are still away from net and uneducated. As regards this Guy who Jared's bearded maulvi i fell sorry for him i don't know what happened in his child ls hood. I think every one here know that this is unislamic and even discussing it is a sin and is tantamount to spreading indecency in the society. There are bigger problems i Pakistan to look at. Zardari and kayani and Shari and intangible to name a few..... Lets start with the biggest problem rather just doing a sexual blog for mastuebation!

Wow... ur uni rocks!! and you rock!! .. i tried to seduce my teacher and she threatened to expel me from school... and my gf just inst into the swinging scene. i try the whole "its just sex" argument but she never goes for it. and the monotony in sex is just killing me.

and LOL @ the person going on about western and indian indecency. dude.. i have seen every kind of sex imaginable... village girls and old islamabadi couples... Pakistan is as shameless as the rest of the world.. i doubt india and wilayat are funding this site with their tax dollars..

Hi. Incest is so beautiful but u need to have good understanding. i know many people who are into incest and are enjoying. its not open. it's within homes. But it turns me on a lot reading incest stories and watching incest videos.i'd love to have someone discussing incest or incest experiences.

So many people like incest fantasies and they read incest stories,infact so many of them want to with heir moms and sis but they cant,thinking of incest is normal,but practicing it is diffrent,so how many girls and boys hav courge to admit incest love .pls post comments,

You all need medical help! And i dont expect you to believe it, but you are via this post giving a reason for people to justify incestous and group sex thoughts! No this is neither our culture, nor our religion!

Even if we believe this, It looks to me more of casual couples swinging who are not committed to each other! Most sex parties in Pakistan involve heavy use of paid girls, so thats not much of swinging is it? although many will deny its going on in Pakistan, but you can never rule out exceptions and very little minority. Pakistanis get married to cousins, so thats not much of considered incest unless its within family and its mostly without consent forced upon on minor girls by males within the extended family.

About Me

I'm a Pakistani-Canadian illustrator/blogger who writes and draws about sexuality in South Asia (mostly Pakistan), religion, politics, feminism, godlessness.
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