We aren't getting rid of him. We need our O line to play better and we need more weapons on offense. Whether it is a healthy Sanu and Jones with a speed back that would be great. We need to get a playmaker at RB and use some screens to keep pressure from getting to Dalton all day.

Look, I understand we are not trading Dalton, I just can admit that we will not win in the playoffs with him. So if everyone is ok with early exits every year, stick with him.

His 1 win against Denver, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Houston in 2 years, our only TD was Leon Hall. We won against Pittsburgh despite his play, certainly not because of it.

He CANNOT beat a top team, and in the playoffs, that is all you see. Who exactly do you guys expect us to get matched up with in the playoffs that he can beat? Because going off of his record, he is terrible in big games against tough defenses(not just our record in those games, he PLAYS terrible).

I understand he is a 2nd year quarterback who threw 27 touchdowns, but who cares if you can only throw TD's against teams with 5-6 wins. If you cannot throw them against teams you HAVE to beat to be successful, does it really matter?

I understand we are not replacing him probably for at least 2 years, but expect much of the same the next 2 seasons.

Guys, the oline is not a problem. We have a top 5 oline in the league. There isn't a QB in the league that gets 5-6 seconds to throw the ball. Dalton has the worst pocket presence in the league. That and it seems as if he doesn't even start his reads until he gets to the back of his drops. Usually QB's know where they are going with the ball when they reach their last step of their drop, but that is just when Dalton starts looking.

With the number of sacks this year, it is easy to point to the oline, but Dalton is responsible for many of those sacks. You can bring in the top 5 olineman in the league, and it isn't going to help Dalton. Unless he drastically changes EVERYTHING about his game, he will never be a top 6 QB in the league or even get into the top 12-14 QB's. I do not think it is possible, I would love to eat some crow if he proves me wrong... But it isn't going to happen.

Guys, the oline is not a problem. We have a top 5 oline in the league. There isn't a QB in the league that gets 5-6 seconds to throw the ball. Dalton has the worst pocket presence in the league. That and it seems as if he doesn't even start his reads until he gets to the back of his drops. Usually QB's know where they are going with the ball when they reach their last step of their drop, but that is just when Dalton starts looking.

With the number of sacks this year, it is easy to point to the oline, but Dalton is responsible for many of those sacks. You can bring in the top 5 olineman in the league, and it isn't going to help Dalton. Unless he drastically changes EVERYTHING about his game, he will never be a top 6 QB in the league or even get into the top 12-14 QB's. I do not think it is possible, I would love to eat some crow if he proves me wrong... But it isn't going to happen.

The way I see it, QBs are going to struggle with pressure in their face all the time. Our tackles are very good. Our right guard is emerging into a great player. Our LG struggles at times, and Cook is struggling immensely. I don't care who you are, if the constant pressure you see is coming straight up the middle, it's hard to be successful. At leat when one tackle struggles, you can escape by going the other way.

I don't read stat lines to get this opinion (how else do you come up with top 5 in the league when we were giving up 5-6 sacks PER GAME the last month plus). I pluck down $70 bucks a game and go. I trust my eyes. i watch road games and see the same thing. pressure up the middle. I am not saying the whole line is trash. Just one spot. A chain's strength is not measured by the strongest link, but the weakest, and right now, Cook is struggling and hence, Dalton is too. We all said the same thing when Palmer was getting hit straight on with Guichiac at center. Did that mean the whole line was bad? No, Jones and Anderson excelled at the edges with Whit/the guy who went to Cleveland and Bobbie doing well at guard. Yet with the center being horrible, Carson got hit so much he ended up quitting.

And if that doesn't make sense, then we will have to agree to disagree.

And even if you are right, how do you propose fixing it? Free agency? The draft? Not with the 21st pick and there's nobody I would want anyway, let alone trade up for.

Last edited by INbengalfan on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Cook wasn't this bad when he was healthy, he deserves a shot at the starting job along with Robinson and hopefully a FA/draft pick imo. I just don't see Marvin/Mikey making moves to go get a center savior. At least faine is gone.

I was floored with Dalton's play in the first half or last year but now that the league knows his strengths and weaknesses its time for him and the coaching staff to get to the next level. His long ball accuracy and pocket presence are his two biggest weaknesses imo along with overall confidence.

I feel bad for the D in the playoff loss, any signs of life from the offense and the game was ours imo, Shaub looked almost as bad as Dalton he just had better play calling and o line play.

The more I think about it the more I want Marvin to step down and Zim to take over.

Look, I understand we are not trading Dalton, I just can admit that we will not win in the playoffs with him. So if everyone is ok with early exits every year, stick with him.

His 1 win against Denver, Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Houston in 2 years, our only TD was Leon Hall. We won against Pittsburgh despite his play, certainly not because of it.

He CANNOT beat a top team, and in the playoffs, that is all you see. Who exactly do you guys expect us to get matched up with in the playoffs that he can beat? Because going off of his record, he is terrible in big games against tough defenses(not just our record in those games, he PLAYS terrible).

I understand he is a 2nd year quarterback who threw 27 touchdowns, but who cares if you can only throw TD's against teams with 5-6 wins. If you cannot throw them against teams you HAVE to beat to be successful, does it really matter?

I understand we are not replacing him probably for at least 2 years, but expect much of the same the next 2 seasons.

I couldn't agree more with this.

I realize Dalton is going nowhere. It doesn't change my belief of Dalton being an extremely mediocre QB, however.

He CANNOT beat a top team, and in the playoffs, that is all you see. Who exactly do you guys expect us to get matched up with in the playoffs that he can beat? Because going off of his record, he is terrible in big games against tough defenses(not just our record in those games, he PLAYS terrible).

So that win in Pittsburgh 2 weeks ago must have been a mirage then ?

Lets think now. Reggie Nelson intercepts R'burger. With 14 ticks left in a must win game on the road, Dalton pitches a perfect 21 yard out ball to AJ. Brown kicks the FG, we win, we make the play-offs, Pittsburgh is knocked-out.

Clutch QB play, on the road, in the 4th quarter, in a rivals back yard. As a Bengal fan, it doesn't get much better than that. That out ball in PIT, looked for all the world like Manning to Harrison.

Honestly 'C4MVP', if you make those sort of comments in the face of play like that, then you as a fan don't deserve any success IMO._________________" Democracy is a system where two idiots can out-vote a genius..........."

It doesn't change my belief of Dalton being an extremely mediocre QB, however.

Mediocre in what way ?

Its often said in this league that the only stat that matters is W's. Dalton is 19-13 in his opening two seasons, the best opening two seasons of any QB in Bengal history. Thats not mediocre, thats excellent.

If you're talking about his status amongst all current QB's then you're probably right. But then if you look at those guys who are 'top 10' now, and put their opening 2 seasons against Daltons, then he's right up there.

Lets pretend you're Mike Browns GM now, you're not satisfied with Dalton and offer him up for a possible trade. You want a QB who's gonna get you 11-5 next year, and at least 1 play-off win. Who dya like in the draft or FA to replace Dalton ?

Just interetsed._________________" Democracy is a system where two idiots can out-vote a genius..........."

It doesn't change my belief of Dalton being an extremely mediocre QB, however.

Mediocre in what way ?

Its often said in this league that the only stat that matters is W's. Dalton is 19-13 in his opening two seasons, the best opening two seasons of any QB in Bengal history. Thats not mediocre, thats excellent.

If you're talking about his status amongst all current QB's then you're probably right. But then if you look at those guys who are 'top 10' now, and put their opening 2 seasons against Daltons, then he's right up there.

Lets pretend you're Mike Browns GM now, you're not satisfied with Dalton and offer him up for a possible trade. You want a QB who's gonna get you 11-5 next year, and at least 1 play-off win. Who dya like in the draft or FA to replace Dalton ?

Just interetsed.

Judging by W/L, you're right. 19-13 is impressive for a QB's first 32 starts. However, most of those 19 wins have came against awful teams. He doesn't have a good track record in games against teams that finished above .500. The biggest game he's won to date was @ Pittsburgh a few weeks ago and that was much more due to the defense. He might have made a nice pass at the end of the game to set up the FG, but the defense won that game for the Bengals.

As you said, he's nowhere near an upper-tier QB among current QBs. Could he develop into one? Sure. I hope he does and I hope I'm wrong. But after watching him for two years, I just don't think he's "got it". His deep ball accuracy is [inappropriate/removed]-poor. He has as bad of a case of 'happy feet' of any QB I've seen in recent years; he's scrambles for his life at the slightest hint of pressure. And I don't think he's a great decision maker; just seems to me like he doesn't check down unless it's 3rd and long. I could be wrong; I don't have the stats to back it up.

If I'm Mike, I stick with Dalton. What choice does he have? There's no QB in this draft who is an immediate difference maker like Luck, RG3, or Wilson, IMO. How often are big name players even traded in the NFL? The Bengals don't have a choice but to ride Dalton out for the next few seasons and hope he improves.

Good game guys, don't be to down on your team, Houston CAN BE dangerous if/when they play well. Dalton is young and will make mistakes, he will grow and get better with time. He is a solid qb who can lead you deep on a playoff run. Better luck next season, Im sure we will have another chance to meet in the playoffs.

He CANNOT beat a top team, and in the playoffs, that is all you see. Who exactly do you guys expect us to get matched up with in the playoffs that he can beat? Because going off of his record, he is terrible in big games against tough defenses(not just our record in those games, he PLAYS terrible).

So that win in Pittsburgh 2 weeks ago must have been a mirage then ?

Lets think now. Reggie Nelson intercepts R'burger. With 14 ticks left in a must win game on the road, Dalton pitches a perfect 21 yard out ball to AJ. Brown kicks the FG, we win, we make the play-offs, Pittsburgh is knocked-out.

Clutch QB play, on the road, in the 4th quarter, in a rivals back yard. As a Bengal fan, it doesn't get much better than that. That out ball in PIT, looked for all the world like Manning to Harrison.

Honestly 'C4MVP', if you make those sort of comments in the face of play like that, then you as a fan don't deserve any success IMO.

What CLUTCH play have you seen down the stretch by Dalton? By being a game manager and not losing the game? He certainly did not do anything to help the team win against Pittsburgh. Leon Hall and our DEF and ST's beat Pitt.

You cannot judge a QB's play just by the team record. Just watch him play, no QB in their right mind should spend 4-5 seconds throwing a 3 step drop. But every play Dalton has he holds on to the ball a good 2 seconds after he should.

Some people can be ok with a 9-10 win season and a loss in the first round of the playoffs. I am not. I want to win more. I want PLAYOFF wins. IMO Dalton cannot get us to that point.

I understand he is not going to be replaced the next couple years. I just have to suck it up and hope the Reds, Buckeyes and Blue Jackets can give me playoff success, because I know it isn't happening for us with Dalton at QB.