Feb. 18
09:14 pm JST

Feb. 18
06:56 pm JST

Cleo, on an emotional level I can understand where you are coming from, but let’s not take the ritual vows too literally without taking cognisance of their historical context. Marriage was for life, the church didn’t allow divorce. Women were property, an had effectively no means of supporting them selves (excepting prostitution) so lifetime financial support was part of the bargain. I am glad to say the world has moved on, women aware no longer property and are allowed to go out to work these days whether they are married or not, so it is time law and social attitudes need to reflect reality.

Feb. 18
01:14 pm JST

I just think the idea of marriage you are promoting is far too heavy and claustrophobic and can have very damaging consequences.

It's just adherence to the traditional vows, nothing reactionary... but each to his or her own, I suppose. I find it liberating to know there's someone who has always got my back, no matter what. It's served us fine for the past 40 years and counting. Money - whether in abundance or lacking, we've been through periods of both - has never been an issue, and if we ever did break up (inconceivable...) money would be the least of our concerns, of that I'm certain.

Feb. 18
12:11 pm JST

Stop right there. The end of a marriage, what should be the rock on which your life is based, the tenet of your existence from the moment you say 'I do', is the loss of everything.

Far too heavy.

I’m married but my marriage is part of my life, not the tenet of my existence and I wouldn’t like to be with a partner who regarded it as hers.

I have a friend who was so devastated by the breakup of his marriage we seriously worried if he’d ever recover mentally or even see the year after his divorce out. Thankfully, he was eventually able to think more clearly and take a more pragmatic view of marriage.

I just think the idea of marriage you are promoting is far too heavy and claustrophobic and can have very damaging consequences.

Feb. 18
11:45 am JST

Feb. 18
09:16 am JST

I don't think Bezos is a good example for a prenup. His wife was with him from zero, and she supported him during the startup phase when nothing was certain. However, if Bezos remarries then clearly that calls for a prenup.

Feb. 18
07:54 am JST

So you can sit here are say I do and love your husband/wife and they do the same to you. If you have an average life and your significant other surprises you with the news that they are filing for divorce and now want 50% of everything you own, maybe it's fine because for you it's not much to lose.

Stop right there. The end of a marriage, what should be the rock on which your life is based, the tenet of your existence from the moment you say 'I do', is the loss of everything. Regardless of how much money you have or don't have. And if at that point all you can think of is hanging on to all those worldly goods (which, remember, you've already endowed to the other person - it's not only yours anymore), you really haven't understood those wedding vows. And probably should never have gotten married in the first place, because your wedding vows were obviously a lie.

But if it's someone who's rich and got that way thru their own hard work, and now their soon to be ex wants half of their spoils and alimony and child support and and and...

If it's someone rich and that's the central pillar of their life, then let them marry their bankbook. They're really not set up for sharing a life.

And fcs, if there are kids involved and you're so stinking rich, why on earth would you not want those kids (your kids) to have the best that money can buy, since between the two of you you're depriving them of a healthy two-parent family upbringing?

Feb. 18
03:49 am JST

@cleo So which bit of "for richer or poorer, with all my worldly goods I thee endow" do you not understand?

It isn't rocket science: if you're not prepared to honour your weddng vows in the first place, then don't get married.

I understand all of it. And so does everyone else when they say yes and begin their married lives together. Until months or years later, when they suddenly change their mind, lose feelings, cheat or get cheated on, get abused or or do the abusing, etc. And suddenly, all sense of right and wrong and what's fair goes right out the window.

So you can sit here are say I do and love your husband/wife and they do the same to you. If you have an average life and your significant other surprises you with the news that they are filing for divorce and now want 50% of everything you own, maybe it's fine because for you it's not much to lose. But if it's someone who's rich and got that way thru their own hard work, and now their soon to be ex wants half of their spoils and alimony and child support and and and...

I's called an insurance policy. The only type of people who would put up a fight over their soon to be spouse wanting them to sign one is the exact type of person you'd want one for.

Feb. 17
11:13 pm JST

Feb. 17
11:01 pm JST

I have long believed we should take a lesson from Jewish practice, they have always seen it as a contract between two people with reciprocal rights and obligations, which in no way precludes love between the parties. Western practices in marriage have been predicated on possession and controle. This was less so in Anglo-Saxon society but after the Norman invasion, continental practices were imposed and women became property. We need as a society to finally move away from this archaic and unhealthy viewpoint.

Feb. 17
10:53 pm JST

You will certainly have a much different story if living in a place where 1/2 your money and possessions are given to someone who said they love you and also have to pay for their accustomed lifestyle.

So which bit of "for richer or poorer, with all my worldly goods I thee endow" do you not understand?

It isn't rocket science: if you're not prepared to honour your weddng vows in the first place, then don't get married.

Feb. 17
09:58 pm JST

Any couple thinking about making a prenup should ask themselves this simple question :

"If we can't trust each other, should we really get married ?"

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Exactly! If a woman and man don't have at least an honest intention of remaining married until one of them dies, then they shouldn't be married at all.

"Prenups" turn what's supposed to be a sacred union into nothing but a cold, crass business transaction.

The fact that the above comment is getting just as many "down" votes as "up" indicates how low society is sinking. Why on earth would anyone cast a "negative" vote for someone who says "if we can't trust each other, we shouldn't get married"?

Feb. 17
09:55 pm JST

For all the guys who say the pre-nup means you aren't ready to be married or degrades the "i do" - either you have no real assets to lose or you haven't been divorced yet. You will certainly have a much different story if living in a place where 1/2 your money and possessions are given to someone who said they love you and also have to pay for their accustomed lifestyle.

Feb. 17
09:37 pm JST

I believe that a pre nup agreement about what happens in case of divorce is kind of like hedging your bets. It degrades the 'I do' promise.

But a pre nup for the purpose of agreeing on how the marriage works, as described by Silva, looks like a great idea. It gets couples talking about and agreeing on fundamental issues between them before tieing the knot. It could save a lot of hassle later and maybe help greatly to ensure a successful partnership.

Feb. 17
06:05 pm JST

Second marriage is usually a happy Union. Both have made mistakes in the first one. Not repeated necessarily in the second. But then some people are compulsive and are on their 4th. Making adult arrangements not a bad idea. Courts are useless. Love my wife my family, if I'm not wanted I'd walk away. The older I get the more love is in the house. I'm lucky. First time not so much.

Feb. 17
05:50 pm JST

Clearly the best thing to do is to not get married.

If I had taken that advice, I wouldn't have had the past 20 years together with my awesome wife, whom I love to come home to every day. Had I not married her, I don't see myself having gotten through some of the tougher times we've had - as a unmarried man, I would have bailed. As a married man, I respected our commitment to each other, and put in the effort required to get through the tough times.

Feb. 17
05:40 pm JST

This is all very silly. Prenups are not sufficient protection against or in the case of failure and don't represent a rational response to the uncertainties of marriage.

Clearly the best thing to do is to not get married. The relationship will be healthier for it. Or it will dissolve with a minimum of fuss when it no longer serves anyone's needs.

What's that you say, children need a two parent household? Indeed. If a married couple is committed enough to their children to stay together despite wanting a divorce, then they would also stay together for the children without being married. And if they don't stay together, then when the woman moves away, she will get custody whether or not they were ever married. If you can't accept this fact of life, don't have kids.

Feb. 17
03:04 pm JST

Feb. 17
12:42 pm JST

Call me old school, but if you're not ready to deal flexibly and empathetically with the changes that life inevitably brings as you grow older together, being bound by a contract written decades before when circumstances were different seems foolhardy. If you need one of these, you are clearly already having second thoughts. Decisions about where to live, who's responsible for what and to what extent at home, and who will take care of the future children should the worst befall both of you are all things that should be discussed. If somebody tells you that you'll pay me x if you do y, or even suggests it, it's time to take it on the arches.

Feb. 17
11:48 am JST

You'd think that life, with all our amazing new gadgets, would become more simple, but no, it is becoming more and more complicated. "Ignorance is Bliss". Would life on an Island without electricity, books, or modern technology at all be better..... to live in a small tribe, co-existing together. Would that be bad. But many see those without modern technology and ideas as "primitive". I believe "retro-communities" will flourish going forward. Living in this insulated world with keyboards and quick delivery.... isn't real living. I think I'll go out for a long walk now.

Feb. 17
11:43 am JST

Good , all marriages are is hedging a bet against loneliness and for most women a way to secure resources and social status . Love is a fairytale always has been . Love is a great word to reflect hope and dreams but not any of the effort . I insist on a pre-nup that I can amend yearly to stipulate milestones for my wife to reach in all aspects of life in order for her to receive the compensation she might want .

Feb. 17
11:40 am JST

Going, going, gone are simple and time honored values of love, trust, faithfulness and sacrifice for our spouses. Marriage and childbearing, the basic building blocks of a healthy society is getting harder to pull off successfully by the day. Sad.

If you mean staying in a meaningless marriage for the sake of the institution itself, yes, people are waking up to that slow motion suicide. Agree that marriage is important to society but forcing people to stay married and pretend to be happy is a crime against humanity. Family dynamics in Japan are off center and have been for decades, way too far weighted to the mother, which is unhealthy for the family and for the kids. I see this everyday. Much can be done to improve the role of woman in Japan and that will result in better marriages and families. It is easy to give up and say 'oh things were so much better way back when,' when they actually were not, than to try to make things better now.

Feb. 17
09:47 am JST

Unfortunately the world is growing colder and more divided by the day. Going, going, gone are simple and time honored values of love, trust, faithfulness and sacrifice for our spouses. Marriage and childbearing, the basic building blocks of a healthy society is getting harder to pull off successfully by the day. Sad.

Feb. 17
07:14 am JST

Feb. 17
07:12 am JST

With such stipulations at what point does it stop feeling like love and more like a business arrangement?

i understand the financial aspect of it as I even have one. But entering all those stipulations sounds more like you’re trying to forcibly create the perfect image of a marriage. Seems more like a cohabitation contract.

Feb. 17
06:42 am JST

Their contract covers a multitude of issues, including work, the sharing of domestic chores and childrearing as well as rules prohibiting cheating and falling into debt. It also sets out terms regarding child custody and child support payments.

Err interesting writer... Prenup and postnups us usually about protecting assests or financial interests... Though in Japan it's not like the west. Say you get divorced she won't be entitled to half, unless she fights you in court and even then she isn't, child support too (supposedly in theory)

Best to get a prenup and postnups anyway, romance etc is one thing, reality about unpredictability is another. I feel sorry for Jeff Bezos, his divorce without a prenup will be the most costliest splitting his wealth, would create the world's richest woman..

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