Actually if you're remotely familiar with female transitioning many ftMs are easy to spot.

Butch lesbians easily pass to the general public because many possess gender markers the general public presumes to be male, therefore they think male when encountering those markers, not because Butch women actually look male.

Which is why you think female transitioners must look male, not because they actually do.

No, I really can tell and I see more than most, being near the 'Center' in Greenwich Village, but not only around there- any trendy neighborhood has its share of young ones. I'm familiar with the uniform changes that occur over time with ftm's on hormones, and find them noticeable at any age.

Everyone here responding to the 'trans-trending' bait, Dirt is basically an online tabloid newspaper cherry picking what she wants to preach about and ignores everything else. It's like asking a dedicated Catholic what their views on sex before marriage are. Don't fucking bother.

You must be so familiar with 'transitioning females', clearly, because you have SO much personal experience from watching a handful of video blogs. Give me a break. You're as well versed on transsexuality as my pets. Sigh...

Unless the lesbians are related there would be no point. Unlike female transitioners, the T affects the female body similarly, so that after 5 years many ftMs resemble each other as if they shared some kind of genetic defect.

trans high: acceptance from other trans guys, adrenaline, male privilege, female attention, obtainment of various surgeries to be more socially accepted, and then: loss of fertility, health problems, alienation from society, smelly men's bathrooms... and having to inject yourself with hormones for the rest of your life, forfeiting a healthy body for one that clearly isn't.

We must all keep in mind that these young girls are from 'generation entitlement'. They will never listen to older/wiser women who have also been through the exact same internalized female/body hate.

It's a huge waste of time and energy trying to talk them out of what they are wanting to do to themselves at that age. The more we try to dissuade them, the more they become adament in their stance. Give it time, this trend will pass. And then prob resurface again in 15-20 years time.

You gotta just shake your head and hope for the best. But you can't talk sense into a person who has their mind set on self harm. Be it a eating disorder, mental disorder, etc.

"And we've all seen what happens when the trans high wears off, and it will."

Seems like a really lofty assumption. Where did you get your research? Does this pertain to the majority of people who are on hormones? I'm just asking because this statement reminds me of Harold Camping: Predicting something without a lot of explainable proof.

You wont see ftMs with men, because once on T their femaleness become more blatant.

Given that and their lack of socializing with males from childhood on (so much for the whole born in the wrong body BS) they cant afford to be around men much because it only highlights how female they actually are.

"Given that and their lack of socializing with males from childhood on (so much for the whole born in the wrong body BS) they cant afford to be around men much because it only highlights how female they actually are."

Growing up I had mostly male friends. I identified more with them than the girls playing with barbies or playing house. I'm 22 years old and continue to socialize with men. It surely does NOT "highlight" anything about me being born with a female body.

'You wont see ftMs with men, because once on T their femaleness become more blatant'.

Explain please. This is such a stupid comment, how does femaleness become 'more blantant' once commencing hormone therapy? If that was remotely true then you'd pass as biological male better without hormones, which is nonsensical. Most femaleness is clearly lost. And why won't you see FtM's with men? If you honestly need to be told this is a massive generalisation, you shouldn't be inciting debate.

oftentimes i can spot a ftm by the company she keeps- usually queer-looking types like chubby tattooed girls or other ftm's with similar features or occasionally mtf's (an interesting picture, that)... i've seen 'gay' ftm's with gay men now and then, but not sure i've ever seen a ftm with a straight biological male, at least on the street or in clubs/barsbut i usually see them walking or riding the train alone looking insecure

It seems to me sometimes that the further an FtM is along in her transition,the more the lower body starts looking distinctly female. Viewed from the back, people born female always look female. So if you're pretending to be male, you'll always look a little "off." Also the insecurity factor plays a role.

"You wont see ftMs with men, because once on T their femaleness become more blatant."

That's funny, I have lots of male friends. My best friend is a guy. I live by an Army base and I'm friends with a bunch of Army guys. Now that it's nice we've going and playing baseball on the weekends and stuff. They don't see me any different than any other guy.

Dirt isn't as off as some of you keep implying. There are certain things I disagree with but a portion of what she says comes from transguys themselves! 'Magine that!

And that silliness about "not playing with dolls" does not prove you are male. That's like one FTM reciting not wishing to be "weak, pregnant, and get married" as a means for his maleness! Stupid!

Mouse - the loner on the bus thing is just rude not all trans people are loners! That's one (obviously there's more than one) reason why transguys come here and make stupid ass comments like "lesbos get a life."

Dirt, I agree that my childhood toy preferences were very typical of a child of my age group.

However, I don't agree that I have some sort of female self-hatred thing going on. If I had no option to transition, I would be ok with living as a 'non-traditional' female, although my happiness would be diminished a great deal. I can't help but be grateful for being born female, because if I hadn't been, who knows who I'd be.

Dirt, I am youngish, certainly ignorant of some things, and I most certainly used to hate myself and the way I looked. However! I can look at myself and see that other people may see a beautiful young woman on the outside, and I am fine with that. It doesn't bother me much anymore. On the other hand though, I look in the mirror and I see me. Whether I look male or female, is not a big deal to me. I just want to be comfortable in my own skin.

And, I'm not going to continue transitioning(medically and the whatnot) until I am older, and know for certain that this IS what I want. I know that I may end up being unhappy with how I turn out.

On a side note, I'm glad that you have been able to help some ladies decide that transition is not the right choice for them. I commend you for that.

Yet you dress and look like a man! You go out of your way to look like a man...men in which you obviously hate but yet you want to look like them...the ones you have such hatred for.

I'm a fem lesbian and will not date anyone who looks like a man. If I wanted to be with a man I would date one and just not have sex with them.

You sit and hate on people who are doing nothing to hurt you in any way and put them down yet you yourself want to look like a man. I'm not a man hater like you but sister, you really need to look in the mirror! You are all hating on these young people which only shows you have a deep rooted problem within yourself. Maybe you were hurt by a man, maybe you have daddy-daughter issues, but one thing is for sure, you have some deep dark ass issues. It's not just about FTM's, it's yourself and you project it on FTM's.

I have a lot of regard for women. I have been with my woman for 14 years, since I was 23 years old. What because I am not against FTM's I have no regard for women? You got it all wrong honey. I value greatly but women GREATLY but just because I don't and sit and put down FTM's every chance I can get it means I have no regard for women? I don't think so! I have better things to do with my life and career than to sit at home all day and look for young people to put down and criticize. I have a life and career! Maybe you need to find yourself a little hobby instead of putting some kids down the way you do. They are kids! It must make you feel good to sit and put them down huh? What, are you holier than thou? I think not!

Claiming butches want to be or wish to be men and claiming "not wanting to play with dolls" makes you male is exactly why people have gender issues in the first place!!! How can young people try to be comfortable with who they are with people telling garbage like this?

No one told me I had to play with Barbies and shit yet I'm FTM. I never had a gender issue. I always knew I was male. No one told me I had to be this way or that way. I grew up male. There was never any pressure on me to be male or female...it just was.

My parents never put any sexual boundaries on me so I could be who I needed to be. There was never no pressure....no playing with Barbies or whatnot. I grew up being me and that is all that mattered and there's no big damn stink abut it as there is here. Live and let live!

i wasn't saying that ftm's are loners(probably far from it, as they need a big network of supporters to survive)but that when i see them alone, they betray what they are in a different wayit is interesting to see older ones because they generally age in a female style especially around the face eyes and neckand true what you say about seeing them from the backalso viewed from a distance they usually read as female to me, basically because of weight distribution

Being comfortable with yourself means SEEING yourself and liking what you see, through the eyes of reality, not wishful thinking.

dirt

Well, what I see in the mirror is a young adult, with short hair and almost no breasts from my binder. I have some pimples and glasses. Aside from the pimples(who likes those?), I like how I look pretty well. And since you'll probably bring it up, when I take off that binder for when I'm just at home, when I have breasts and I can see them, it doesn't bother me as much some days, and other days, I can't STAND it. I guess you can call me what YOU want, but I'm happy being me as I am for right now. Doesn't mean that I might not decide to change my body later, maybe I won't. Who knows? It's all just a part of growing up, and finding out what makes me happy. Call me self-hating, call me woman hating. It doesn't matter because I know how I feel, and, I think you may just be wrong.

Since you want to get rid of butch invisibilty and shame, instead of trans trending posts each week, find butch lesbians on youtube. Make posts showing off the butch community. They are easy to find if you look.

Being out or not...One of the gf on a Tmates FTM YT channel said "his bf is not nice when he is outed".As I know the guy, I have googled his full name + "transguy" on Google and the first result is a page where this guy gives an interview about his transition and so where he speaks openly under his full name.So if some transguys read my comment here: do you think the guy can still consider he is not out after this? When you have 2000 unknown friends on FB, do you still expect to be out?...It is just I don't understand at all the concept of being out for today digital natives...and would like it to be explained.

Biological males get mistaken for trans all the time these days. That's because all bodies are different. People's hormone levels vary widely and that really affects their physiology. I've seen naked (bio) men in my gym's locker room who have wide hips, narrow shoulders, and cellulite on their thighs. Almost every single trans guy I know who is through his transition appears more typically male than some of these men.

i applaud you for being an advocate for women's rights and radical feminism. so few people are willing to stand on their soap boxes and declare their opinions openly.

however...

you seem to be a champion of femininity and exuding womanness; why is your domain name "dirtywhiteboi"? BOY/BOI or whatever clever variation you can come up with ties you to male ascriptions. Seems hypocritical to me! Also, being a "butch lesbian" is also playing into the "female self-hate" that you claim is happening with transmen. you have attached a MASCULINE ATTRIBUTE TO YOUR IDENTITY; you are diluting your own femininity by doing this! How are your followers still giving you kudos when your contradictions are burning throughout your self-identification, your DOMAIN NAME and your APPEARANCE. Embrace your femininity and look like a stereotypical woman if you want to champion this cause. Butch pride? Celebrating the mannish side of women? Aren't you just a bundle of confusion? :)

Sounds to me like you tried to transition yourself and got negative feedback for doing so. Don't let your bad experiences color everyone else's. Whether or not you like it, trans folk are lumped in the same acronym as you so, better learn to accept them.