If you have a problem with Moscone, email me. If you have any other questions, email me. If there is any sort of permissions breach (you can or can't see something you shouldn't/should), email me faster.

Email is faster than forum PM which is faster than asking in a QT.

My email is chocolate.pi (zip code: gmail)

Day 1 starts here: (bloody auto-merge...)

The town awoke to discover that their beloved theme writer, THEME_WRITER_NAME, had been slain during the Night!

"What will we do without our theme writer?" RANDOM_PLAYER_1 asked his or her peers.

RANDOM_PLAYER_2 was about to have a serious breakdown. "I... I can't even remember where we live!"

Many in the group nodded in agreement. "We counted on THEME_WRITER'S_NAME for so much." RANDOM_PLAYER_3 said whimsically.

"Apparently too much." The bitterness in RANDOM_PLAYER_4's voice took the group by surprise. "I mean, it's obvious that without a theme writer, we have no idea who each other are, what we are doing, where we live--heck, WHEN we live... does anyone know what year it is?"

"Nineteen... Tuesday?" RANDOM_PLAYER_5's face was strained in great mental effort.

"HOW WILL WE REMEMBER TO EAT IF WE DON'T KNOW HOW TIME WORKS?!?" RANDOM_PLAYER_2 was growing ever more hysterical.

"Alright everybody, calm down." RANDOM_PLAYER_6 sounded as confused as everyone, but the crowd was eager enough for something to believe in that they didn't care. "Let's all take a deep breath, focus, and come up with a vaguely plausible reason to start executing one another in a bizarrely orderly and democratic fashion."

"Easy." said RANDOM_PLAYER_7 in a no-nonsense matter-of-fact tone, "The metric system."

"I like it. So does everyone agree?"

PLAYER_RANDOM_4 was confused; "Sure, but I'm not sure what we are agreeing with."

"Wait, weren't you the bitter guy?"

"No, I'm PLAYER_RANDOM_4, he or she is RANDOM_PLAYER_4."

"That's... really stupid and confusing."

RANDOM_PLAYER_7 nodded. "That exactly why the metric system is at the top of our agenda."

The group murmured in dismay, but eventually found a helpful guide on the internet (http://achewood.com/comic.php?date=04092003). This filled them with confidence.

And with that, the group of 30 people of undefined relation and location set off to find the BAD_GUY_FACTION_NAME members hiding among them.

Day 1 has begun! You may choose to lynch someone today, or not! The boundless platter of freedom that sits before you is dizzying. Either way, tonight the King will select additional players to serve in his Court! (Unless you lynch him today, which would be pretty dumb!)

Remember that voting in Moscone is the only voting that counts. However, it might be polite (read: not-totally-Witchy) to always clearly post your votes in this discussion topic as well, in bold. (For some reason, people like knowing why other people want to kill each other?)

Deadline for Day 1 is 3/31 6:00 UTC (Saturday)

And remember chaps, double click on the grid to vote.

Oh, and one last thing: Loose Cannon, whoever you are? Remember that your power will kill you. I would advise against selecting a target for your power just to see if it works. (Everyone else, go nuts.)

And with that, discuss! Do you want to lynch anyone? Who? What strategies should the town consider? Who should the King pick? Who should the King not pick? What should the theme be? Get chatty.

Bill Door

03-26-2012, 07:35 PM

Yay, my first mafia game has started. Unfortunately it starts just as I'm about to go to bed, so I'll be unable to post properly for roughly 16 hours. First thing to do is chose who the king picks as members of the court I think, so is there anyone who feels they should be in it, and if so why?

jwlk

03-26-2012, 07:39 PM

U can't check moscone on my.phone. so I have no idea what my Role is :( ill post later

Oliver Kingston

03-26-2012, 07:45 PM

So I'm really happy with my role, all you meta-players know what that means... I'm town! :awesome , it's been too long since I got to just hunt witches and not run around stealing souls or seducing. Or that one time when I accidentally fucked over the town as a tow- fuck.

CheddarTrek

03-26-2012, 07:52 PM

Is there a way to make the Moscone link... bigger? Normally I can use Control + to increase the size of things, but it's not working in this case. I have to lean over my keyboard and squint to make out the words, it's rather irksome.

Also heyo!

Chocolate Pi

03-26-2012, 08:04 PM

Is there a way to make the Moscone link... bigger? Normally I can use Control + to increase the size of things, but it's not working in this case. I have to lean over my keyboard and squint to make out the words, it's rather irksome.

Also heyo!

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. You mean, Moscone itself, as in the Flash object? Sorry, such things aren't scale-able by the browser.

I can keep it in mind though, if text size/readability is a concern.

Alternatively, if my sarcasm meter is low on batteries again, I can fix that too.

Menace

03-26-2012, 08:04 PM

Checkin' in. Looking forward to playing with you guys, though things might get a bit screwy playing two of the same game on different forums. :/

Eidolonic

03-26-2012, 08:09 PM

So I'm really happy with my role, all you meta-players know what that means... I'm town! :awesome , it's been too long since I got to just hunt witches and not run around stealing souls or seducing. Or that one time when I accidentally fucked over the town as a tow- fuck.

So, Ollie's really happy with his role, guys, so you know what that means! He's scum pretending to be town! :awesome , it's been far too long since he's been able to randomly derp and get killed off.

Just kidding. He's the motherfucking Jon. Kill him.

On an entirely unrelated note, hi and stuff. Should totally pick me for the court. I'm active, and will poke people who aren't active with sticks until they reveal their scummitude. And stuff. I've played with some of you guys elsewhere, but looking forwards to actually playing a game on DLP. Should be fun.

Ash

03-26-2012, 08:11 PM

So, I'm here and ready to play. Whoever the King is, you definitely want me on your court.

Koalas

03-26-2012, 08:11 PM

Personally I'm a fan of the lack-of-flavor flavor. I found it quite funny.

Lutris

03-26-2012, 08:13 PM

Hi, checking in.

So, first mafia game in foreverever. I hope I don't fuck things up horribly.

Oliver Kingston

03-26-2012, 08:18 PM

Hi, checking in.

So, first mafia game in foreverever. I hope I don't fuck things up horribly.

Trust this man, my BatDar tells me he's town.

jwlk

03-26-2012, 08:21 PM

Without even knowing my role I'm calling gambit lutris scum pair

thebrute7

03-26-2012, 08:21 PM

Hi, checking in.

So, first mafia game in foreverever. I hope I don't fuck things up horribly.

You and me both brother. I think the last mafia game I played was close to three years ago.

Lutris

03-26-2012, 08:21 PM

Trust this man, my BatDar tells me he's town.

I haven't even done anything yet to warrant a whiteknighting. 0_0

Stop freaking me out- I don't want to die before it's Day 4 because fuck you guys for always killing me off early in every single game.

Uncle Stojil

03-26-2012, 08:29 PM

Checkin' in. Looking forward to playing with you guys, though things might get a bit screwy playing two of the same game on different forums. :/

Also, look out of the differences. There are a few tweaks to this ruleset.

Anyway, let's hope this game is more alive and stuff. GOD is dead! And I made a punny!

Eidolonic

03-26-2012, 08:47 PM

I'm open to lynching Stoljili for that pun.

Just sayin'.

Lutris

03-26-2012, 08:51 PM

I'll be working (unpaid home improvement/repair work huzzah!) for the next few hours but will have access with a mobile device. So I'll probably be lurking for a fair bit, just as forewarning so I don't come off as suspicious by attending to RL needs.

Eidolonic

03-26-2012, 09:06 PM

Might as well go over Day One agenda.

1.) Personally campaign for court spots.
2.) Mention others you have town reads on that would be good candidates for the court.
3.) Poke people that aren't posting with sharp objects, or a few lynch votes to get them unlurking.
4.) Lynch someone.

While 4 isn't a must, necessarily, keep in mind that we can lynch someone day one, unlike some variants of this game. Don't just jump on a random vote, make a day one lynch have a purpose - we have five days or so to discuss things and prod people who trigger scumdars.

If we don't get 16 people to agree on a lynch target, the Judge can be scum in this rule set. Which means an active town member goes splat, which is never a good thing.

KaiDASH

03-26-2012, 09:52 PM

hi guys!

Ensuring a town king's court is super important so this is the most important day 1 eveeeer.

I'd rather not have the king picking people based on meta (this guy is good scumhunt etc) but instead on whether or not the king thinks a guy is town, so that means we need to have actual talking and not just meaningless drivel.

Just a quick note on numbers,

Total players: 30
Coven Witches: 4
Junior Witches: 5
Spies: 3

And /all/ roles are in play.

At this point I like Eidolonic more than sleb, and kind of dislike lutris because he's already talking about how he's going to eat a nk.

Lungs

03-26-2012, 09:53 PM

Vote: Lutris

Because he is cooler than me.

Chocolate Pi

03-26-2012, 09:55 PM

More specifically:

Total players: 30

Coven Witches: 4
Junior Witches: 5

Villagers: 10
Holy Villagers: 6
Village Lovers: 2
Village Spies: 3

brb updating op with this helpful info that I totally forgot.

Lungs

03-26-2012, 10:00 PM

Kk, serious posting now.

Lungs for Court and shit, because I do role reads that would be superbeneficial after we clearCourt.

I have a bit of a problem with following instructions (blame that which smells like teen spirit and is sold in small baggies), but I mean well and I intend to play this game to the very, very best of my ability. Sort of like D1 (and only D1!) HoT2.

Lutris is making me uncomfortable, which is the real reason why I voted for him, but I'm not sure he's scum just yet.

Kai looks like generic town kai but it's post one so it's post one and stuff.

Eido's posting like town!Eido, the difference is in the smugness, but that's also stuff that you can metashift.

jwlk's kneejerk is very jwlk but it's also slightly scummy - it seems too much like "oh advantage, i can refer back to my 'town'ness if I'm in a bit of trouble", smells like DLPhunt jwlk.

yeah it's like, sort of weird phrasing "you may choose to lynch" as if there's no consequence to a no-lynch? idk.

Ash

03-26-2012, 10:19 PM

So far, most suspicious of Lungs and (kinda) Lutris. Perhaps due to asianness?

Sirion

03-26-2012, 10:20 PM

Sweet. Another game of WH!
Hello people I've never played with, hello people I've played with.

I'm Sirion, I've got like 6-7 games total and only one (currently still running) game of witchhunt.

I'm cramming for a test tomorrow, so I won't be very active tonight, but I will pick up after that.

Lutris

03-26-2012, 10:23 PM

hi guys!

Ensuring a town king's court is super important so this is the most important day 1 eveeeer.

Clearly.

At this point I like Eidolonic more than sleb, and kind of dislike lutris because he's already talking about how he's going to eat a nk.

Vote: Lutris

Because he is cooler than me.

The fuck? I was just stating a general trend that made playing mafia games less fun than they could've been for me- I always ended up dying early for one reason or another. I never got to stick around past the first few Days, so I guess saying that I want to live long enough to enjoy playing is a scum tell for you?

:/

Lungs

03-26-2012, 10:26 PM

So far, most suspicious of Lungs and (kinda) Lutris. Perhaps due to asianness?

-.- Racism everywhere.

Rescind I keep forgetting my metareads on you~

thebrute7

03-26-2012, 10:26 PM

Everything is a scum tell Lutris, because the Town is inherently paranoid. The question is whose scum tell is the most scummy.

Nonetheless, I don't feel much scum from anyone right now.

Sesc

03-26-2012, 10:34 PM

Is there a way to make the Moscone link... bigger? Normally I can use Control + to increase the size of things, but it's not working in this case. I have to lean over my keyboard and squint to make out the words, it's rather irksome.

I had the opposite problem: I scale websites at 80% or 90%, by default because of the small screen on my netbook. That cut off the right edge of the Moscone box.

Anyway. I'd say the King would make a great pick if he picked me. Do want into King's Court :3

Without even knowing my role I'm calling gambit lutris scum pair

What is this I don't even. For all you know, you might be a witch. Are you trying some sort of double blind experiment?

CheddarTrek

03-26-2012, 11:56 PM

So far I have no serious suspicions of anyone as far as scum goes.

But I do like how roles and whatnot are assigned in this game compared to how it was done in the last couple of games I played. I.e. your Role or whatever isn't linked to your faction or whatever in the same way. Or something?

Eh, at any rate, I like the idea of using Moscone but my inability to read it without bending myself over my keyboard and squinting at the screen does take some of the enjoyment out of it.

Oh, King's Court -- I'd be up for trying that out and might be somewhat useful, but mostly I just want to keep the spots out of scummy hands where possible.

Who has said they want to be on it so far...

Ash, Lungs, & Sesc?

Did I make any of those up or miss anyone? I'm suspicious of the first two based on past games, but that doesn't mean that they are scum for certain sure. But they are aggressive players in the sense that if they were scum they'd probably step up right away... I think? Don't know enough about Sesc to say one way or another.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 12:00 AM

king should be picking from his townreads out of the entire playerlist, not just those that actively campaign for it.

campaigning for it just gives you more opportunity to sell yourself as town.

Sesc

03-27-2012, 12:05 AM

Not that I disagree, but how many reads do you think there will be? I rather fear the King will be poking with a stick in the dark.

Then again, there's lots of day left. Maybe someone derps enough to disqualify themselves right off the bat :p

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 12:11 AM

A few good, solid derps would give us a nice lynch target too -- plenty of time, like you said!

Eidolonic

03-27-2012, 12:11 AM

Post 8. I'm down for court stuff. Some of you know me, some don't. I'll be posting, and I'll be raging at those that don't post. Activity is good.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 12:11 AM

well that's why there should be talking going on.

Ok let's get /something/ started.

Ashaya, lungs, sesc: Since you guys have explicitly expressed interest in being on the court, as part of that - Lead a lynch on someone.

That goes for everybody who campaigns for court too.

If you campaign for court, you're ALSO campaigning to see someone lynched.

ok, go.

Eidolonic

03-27-2012, 12:27 AM

I'm down with lynching Azira.

Why? Because, well. It was entertaining as hell in DLPHunt watching him pull the self righteous 'You must be scum for suspecting me' shit, and I want to see how he reacts to pressure. And get posts happening.

So, yeah.

Azira. Convince me you're town.

Lynch: Azira

Lungs

03-27-2012, 12:39 AM

I'm sort of down with lynching Kai, because I'm annoyed by his superaggro, but while it's slightly counterproductive, it's also not a net bad because participation.

The problem is that there aren't enough posts for me to read, and the only person who I really red flagged was Ash, and it was completely reactionary >_> So it's not even like, a thing.

Sure, I'll lead a lynch, but if no one gives me a scumtell, I'm not going to campaign to randomlynch town actively, though I will vote so that the judge doesn't coopt our democratic system >_>

Oliver Kingston

03-27-2012, 12:56 AM

Ok so I was totally shitting about Lu, I just like him. I have no clue yet.

I'm taking this game a little more seriously than usual, finally doing a spreadsheet and stuff.

I'd love to get King's Court but am way more interested in why others might think they deserve it.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 01:10 AM

I'm sort of down with lynching Kai, because I'm annoyed by his superaggro, but while it's slightly counterproductive, it's also not a net bad because participation.

The problem is that there aren't enough posts for me to read, and the only person who I really red flagged was Ash, and it was completely reactionary >_> So it's not even like, a thing.

Sure, I'll lead a lynch, but if no one gives me a scumtell, I'm not going to campaign to randomlynch town actively, though I will vote so that the judge doesn't coopt our democratic system >_>

The person you campaign to lynch doesn't have to die, but such a thing is good for
1. getting you talking
2. getting the target talking

and a bunch of things can be inferred from how you conduct your lynch train (!)

So even if you just pick a random and the train ends up fizzling out, it's still a net benefit to town to have that happen in the first place, because /it got people to talk about non-trivial things/.

coleam

03-27-2012, 01:17 AM

So I just discovered that the game was live, 6 hours after the fact. Darn Youtube videos, distracting me and shit...

So anyways:

Without even knowing my role I'm calling gambit lutris scum pair

Don't be silly, no one could be that stup...wait, we're talking about Gambit here. Forget I said anything.

Not much else to say, and we've got scads of time (have we ever run a Mafia game with such long days?), so I'll leave it at that for now.

The person you campaign to lynch doesn't have to die, but such a thing is good for
1. getting you talking
2. getting the target talking

and a bunch of things can be inferred from how you conduct your lynch train (!)

So even if you just pick a random and the train ends up fizzling out, it's still a net benefit to town to have that happen in the first place, because /it got people to talk about non-trivial things/.

This is actually a pretty good idea - there's not much danger of an accidental bandwagon since we have tons of time to talk and rescind/change votes, and we need SOMETHING to talk about for the next four days.

Klackerz

03-27-2012, 01:31 AM

Hi all, just posting to say that I am here and I still haven't found out my role. So I am probably gonna have a small town role am for that reason I wanna be on the court.

If I have to choose someone to lynch now, I'll choose Lungs.His posts are making me suspicious.

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 01:33 AM

Why are you unable to find out your role?

Klackerz

03-27-2012, 01:39 AM

Using a mobile without flash.

Geabe

03-27-2012, 02:00 AM

Checking in, just checking in.

While I figure out Moscone.

Sesc

03-27-2012, 02:06 AM

Okay, this is becoming ridiculous. You can't play if you don't know your role or your faction. Get into Moscone, figure out who you are, then get back in here. I'm refusing to play until everyone knows who they are. How the fuck am I supposed to figure out who you are, if you don't even know?

Until that isn't clear, the game for me is on pause.

Koalas

03-27-2012, 02:13 AM

^ Agreed 100%

klackerz is campaigning for King's Court and he doesn't even know his role yet.

Computer. Moscoe. The big flashing button. This isn't hard.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 02:16 AM

Okay, this is becoming ridiculous. You can't play if you don't know your role or your faction. Get into Moscone, figure out who you are, then get back in here. I'm refusing to play until everyone knows who they are. How the fuck am I supposed to figure out who you are, if you don't even know?

Until that isn't clear, the game for me is on pause.

Nobody cares if you don't know your role yet, so don't even post about it. Infact, don't even post at all until you know your role.

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 02:21 AM

Moscone has to work (at least somewhat) for everyone, because you wouldn't have been able to register with it if it didn't.

Click the link in the first post. Log in. Click on the DLP game to open it. Your role should now be listed, on a button, near the bottom.

Eidolonic

03-27-2012, 02:23 AM

Hi all, just posting to say that I am here and I still haven't found out my role. So I am probably gonna have a small town role am for that reason I wanna be on the court.

This is all kinds of 'what' to me. You want to be on the court because you will 'probably have a small town role', despite not knowing what your role is (supposedly).

Not buying it. At all.

Still think Azira wagon could confirm his alignment pretty early, but this just... no.

Rescind Vote

Vote Klackerz

You're in a hole. Dig your way out of it.

Sesc

03-27-2012, 02:27 AM

They are on mobile devices currently, Cheddar. Lacking flash support.

In the end, this also was a reason why I asked for a time gap between role and faction assignment and game start; apart from possible needs to draw up strategies pre-game. It would've made things a little more relaxed. By the way: For anyone who also prefers bullet points and/or wants to print out stuff, I made a role list (http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550311&postcount=128).

/meta

thebrute7

03-27-2012, 02:31 AM

I made a role list (http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550311&postcount=128).

/meta

Thanks, should be helpful for me.

I think I'm going to come back tomorrow and see what's going on. That people are posting without knowing their role is baffling. Not to mention counter-intuitive.

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 02:37 AM

Aye, Sesc, but they have to have a computer somewhere capable of flash or else they wouldn't have been able to register. I guess I don't understand why someone would post and say outright that they haven't been able to learn their role unless they were having trouble figuring it out (as opposed to being on a mobile instead of a computer).

But I take your point.

Though if no one else comes up as a better option I'm tempted to vote to lynch klackerz just for that.

Geabe

03-27-2012, 02:57 AM

Giving Klackerz the benefit of the doubt for now, subject to change depending on how he plays the game in the next few RL days.

But here's a question for him anyway.

Assuming you campaigned without knowing your role, under what circumstances would you change that decision in the later game?

Chocolatepi, could you clarify the contradiction in the King's selection for us?

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 03:15 AM

day 1 lynch is allowed in the current ruleset.

Moridin

03-27-2012, 03:42 AM

Oh, and one last thing: Loose Cannon, whoever you are? Remember that your power will kill you. I would advise against selecting a target for your power just to see if it works. (Everyone else, go nuts.)

Got to admit, that made me laugh. Did anyone actually do that?

Hi all, just posting to say that I am here and I still haven't found out my role. So I am probably gonna have a small town role am for that reason I wanna be on the court.

I'm hesitant to go after someone for what seems like a RL inability to access Moscone atm, but this is just stupid. How do you know you're a small town role? For that matter, how do you know you're town? Until you know your team alignment and role, you can't really say much about what your strategy should be, so why not restrict yourself to a simple explanation about being on a phone and wait until you can access Moscone to fully participate? As CheddarTrek says, you have to be able to get to it eventually.

Klackerz

03-27-2012, 03:44 AM

Calm down everyone,lol.

I found out my role from another device and I am still campaigning for the King's Court. I will come back later in some three to four hours when I reach home.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 04:02 AM

hm, you wanted something to happen before you start to play mishie? How's this,

lynch mishie

Lutris

03-27-2012, 05:07 AM

Okay, got home like half an hour ago and now caught up with the thread.

Giving Klackerz the benefit of the doubt for now, subject to change depending on how he plays the game in the next few RL days.

Pretty much my thought on the matter. I'll just be watching him closer than if he hadn't said anything.

I'm also watching Lutris. He comes off pretty much 50/50 to me.

Okay, sure. I suppose I gave off mixed signals earlier.

hm, you wanted something to happen before you start to play mishie? How's this,

lynch mishie

Yeah, mishie still hasn't posted, and I find it odd that he's thumbsed up a post here when he's obviously been reading the thread. That he's lurking isn't a point in his favor. For the time being until he can explain his absence:

Lynch: Mishie

For reference, people who haven't posted yet for one reason or another:

I work better in a team than working alone, whatever plan I come up with sometimes has a big derp I overlook and discussing it with others helps a lot.

On the lynch front: We do have 4 days so I am not going to rush into anything. I will decide after more people have posted.

jwlk

03-27-2012, 05:32 AM

It was just 2 people? Also, I now know my role, so its not a big deal. Klackerz will get his role when he gets access to a computer. Relax, guys. We have 5 days.

That being said, I would really like to be considered to be chosen in the court! I think I would make a great asset to the court, due to the fact that i'm here all the time, am good at finding scum, and work best when bouncing my idea's of off others. But those are really just empty platitudes, I hope I can convince the king to pick me in thread, due to game reasons.

Really, the only person who sticks out to me that i'd want to lynch is Gambit. Cmon man, saying you're town in the beginning of the thread doesn't magically make you not suspicious. In fact, it is the opposite. Thats why i'm' going to Vote: Gambit.

Very scummy first post you had there, how are you going to convince you're not scum trying to avoid scrutiny extremely early?

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 06:03 AM

Good list Lutris. I'm willing to give folks a bit more time to post before I get too suspicious of them / irritated at them, but good list.

How about this for a question -- is there anyone who doesn't want to be on/in the court?

I'm interested, though I know there may be better options... but yeah, I'm curious if anyone would prefer not to participate in that particular thing.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 06:14 AM

Cheddar, the thing about mishie is that he /could/ have posted, but didn't.

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 06:17 AM

Unless he was on a mobile phone without flash like various others, in which case perhaps he preferred to keep quiet rather than post without knowing his role.

Or that was my initial assumption. It could just as easily be what you say instead, that he could have posted and didn't bother. Speaking of, he could have just posted a "hello" or something if he didn't want to involve himself too deeply without knowing his role.

*shrug*

Mishie

03-27-2012, 06:23 AM

Well since Kai and Lutris are demanding that I post I will, the reason why I haven't done so yet is simply due to the fact that there really isn't anything to talk about, I'm not all that interesting in being in the Court, so all that's left for me to do is read the posts and the form an opinion on them. Sure I could just post random crap like some people in order to make myself look busy, but I really don't see the point of doing that.

Right now though, from what I've seen, I haven't been able to get any scum reads due to the lack of information, although I do think that putting either Kaidash or Lungs on the Kings Court would be a good idea. Simply because of the fact that in the event of them being town, they will be able to make a huge difference as town, whilst if they're scum, unless we get really unlucky and get a Scum Queen, then it will be easier for them to be caught.

People that I think shouldn't be in the Kings Court would definately be Castiel, Ollie and Ashaya, mainly based on meta, i.e. they all play very erratically and could possibly negatively affect the court even if they were Town.

Lutris

03-27-2012, 07:01 AM

Well since Kai and Lutris are demanding that I post I will, the reason why I haven't done so yet is simply due to the fact that there really isn't anything to talk about, I'm not all that interesting in being in the Court, so all that's left for me to do is read the posts and the form an opinion on them. Sure I could just post random crap like some people in order to make myself look busy, but I really don't see the point of doing that.

Right now though, from what I've seen, I haven't been able to get any scum reads due to the lack of information, although I do think that putting either Kaidash or Lungs on the Kings Court would be a good idea. Simply because of the fact that in the event of them being town, they will be able to make a huge difference as town, whilst if they're scum, unless we get really unlucky and get a Scum Queen, then it will be easier for them to be caught.

People that I think shouldn't be in the Kings Court would definately be Castiel, Ollie and Ashaya, mainly based on meta, i.e. they all play very erratically and could possibly negatively affect the court even if they were Town.

I'm not entirely satisfied with your reasoning, but I did say that my vote for you would stand only until you had explained your absence. So for the time being, Rescind Vote: Mishie.

I do agree with Mishie about Castiel, Ollie, and Ashaya, to an extent. I wouldn't totally disregard them as candidates for the King's Court, but I would lower them on my list of priorities for the Court if I were in the King's place.

Kai or Lungs seem to be good choices, by your reasoning. Not sure if I agree wholeheartedly, but what you say makes sense.

No further candidates for lynches from me at the moment, nor any other recommendations for the King to consider.

Uncle Stojil

03-27-2012, 08:56 AM

So, Lutris, you pretty much agree with everyone and everything in your posts #60 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550357&postcount=60) and #67. How very... safe. Also no real content, no real pressure if not Kai-induced and a scummy first post.

Deadline Lynch Vote: Lutris

Republic

03-27-2012, 09:14 AM

So, I just saw that the game had started.

The only thing I have to note is that I think Eidolonic is acting suspiciously. Demanding everyone persuade him that they are town is well and good, but you're going to have to do the same, and this is not how to do it.

As for the Court, eh. I'm not particularly good at Mafia games, and I'd rather not risk compromising others as well. Up to the King, though.

Will try to check the thread again later, but I'll be busy for most of today.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 09:21 AM

I guess I kind of like jwlk too, since he's doing the lynchy thing, but more importantly I want to talk to some new guys that I've not seen before (AKA: WHO ARE YOU).

Bill Door: With this gamesetup as it is and the fact that there are only 5 roles (the holy roles) that are 100% town, how valuable are rolereads? (feel free to omit anything that might help scum more than town)

Menace: Pick a player to priest check, kill and protect, then tell another player to do the same (give reason for at least 1/3)

I'd priest check Lungs because I think his play has improved immensely recently, I'd kill OllieK to preempt any derp (!) and I'd protect sesc.

Oliver Kingston

03-27-2012, 09:54 AM

Kai, usually I'd agree, but it's very important that I NOT FUCKING DIE.

Uncle Stojil

03-27-2012, 10:37 AM

Kai, usually I'd agree, but it's very important that I NOT FUCKING DIE.

This is how you take the game "more seriously" as you put it? Really?

Oliver Kingston

03-27-2012, 10:42 AM

You must have missed when I accidentally the town in DLPhunt. I'm taking the game more seriously, not being an upstanding citizen.

Uncle Stojil

03-27-2012, 10:58 AM

Oh, sure I remember. But I can't help but thinking you're using your past of derpery and generally bad gameplay as a defense/cover. It's pretty convenient to take advantage of.

On the other hand, it is convenient to scum as well, if you're actually town.

All in all, I think that things like "I'm too important to die" aren't going to help you at all. I suggest you figure out a (better) way to contribute. And soon.

Sesc

03-27-2012, 12:15 PM

Looks like we can play now. Cool.

Well, @Kai,
Ashaya, lungs, sesc: Since you guys have explicitly expressed interest in being on the court, as part of that - Lead a lynch on someone.

That goes for everybody who campaigns for court too.

If you campaign for court, you're ALSO campaigning to see someone lynched.

ok, go.

I was going to say if you make that a requirement, I might as well rescind and call it a day, because obviously(?) I have no suspicion, after a few hours -- and I doubt that anyone has, and if they do say they have, they are lying.

Of course, since then, Eidologic has voted like a monkey on Ecstasy, so now I have a suspicious person. That, and of course I still feel like lynching the will-o'-the-wisps ITT on principle ;)

Sesc

03-27-2012, 12:22 PM

Looks like we can play now. Cool.

Well, @Kai,
Ashaya, lungs, sesc: Since you guys have explicitly expressed interest in being on the court, as part of that - Lead a lynch on someone.

That goes for everybody who campaigns for court too.

If you campaign for court, you're ALSO campaigning to see someone lynched.

ok, go.

I was going to say if that were a requirement, I might as well rescind and call it a day, because obviously(?) I have no suspicion, after a few hours -- and I doubt that anyone has, and if they do say they have, they are lying. The King would either never get a first court, or get a court full of witches and overeager players.

Of course, since then, Eidologic has voted like a monkey on Ecstasy, so now I have a suspicious person. Mission accomplished with your post, I guess :p

Edit: Broke the system :/ I'll leave both posts up, this was what I meant to post though.

Bill Door

03-27-2012, 01:06 PM

Bill Door: With this gamesetup as it is and the fact that there are only 5 roles (the holy roles) that are 100% town, how valuable are rolereads? (feel free to omit anything that might help scum more than town)

With most roles not being tied to any faction a role read in this game won't help you determine a player's faction, and so isn't particularly useful. However if you compare it to how a player uses their role's powers then it might help you to determine their faction. So while not overly useful, I'd still rather know everyone's role than not.

As for whether I'd like to be in the court, I'd say yes, I think that I'll be useful to have.

Castiel

03-27-2012, 01:10 PM

Do all the guys have the same forum and moscone name? If not is there a list somewhere which we can use to see who on the app is who on the forum? On a quick skim through (in the flash app) I don't know who half the people are. But maybe I have been just out of touch for a while. >_>

guljons

03-27-2012, 01:16 PM

Ok, I am home from a long day now, checked my role and will read the thread and rules again now.

Glancing over the latest posts, this seems pretty interesting. Hopefully will have something to add in some time.

Sesc

03-27-2012, 01:16 PM

@Castiel: Not exactly the same in some cases, but I always know who is who, yes. And so will you, if they actually post ITT, I presume.

Bill Door

03-27-2012, 01:24 PM

The names are almost all the same on the app as the forum, the only major change is Gambit is known as Ollie on the app. There are no other real differences.

thebrute7

03-27-2012, 02:20 PM

How about this for a question -- is there anyone who doesn't want to be on/in the court?

I think this is actually a very interesting question. Personally, I wouldn't mind being on the court, but neither do I feel that I would be a great choice to help the town due to my relatively limited experience in mafia-style games. If we take a look at the game:

The King (Holy), Queen and Duke are already on the Court +4 players chosen by the King. Which means that the King has 27 players to choose 4 players from out of which there may be up to 9 witches or as few as 7. (4 to 2 active)

Which means that (assuming a completely random selection) the King has a ~33% chance of getting at least one witch in the Court on any given player choice and a ~15% chance of getting an active Elder (this includes the Queen and Duke). Which means that there is a high chance that there will be at least one witch on the court, with a fair chance of that one being an Elder.

If an Elder Witch does manage to get onto the court, the members of said Court are going to be among the Witches' first targets, since the King's Court is such a strong advantage for the Town.

Therefore, it seems to me that the roles of Priest and Bishop are roles that we do not want to see on the Court, because we don't want to chance them being made even more appealing targets to the Witches.

Did that make sense, or am I just rambling?

CheddarTrek

03-27-2012, 02:51 PM

I am going out of town for a bit. I will still be around at least once a day, probably twice, and should be able to continue to play with no issues.

If that changes I'll let you guys know. But don't expect rapid (i.e. within a few hours) responses, as I'll mostly be checking at night.

Bill Door

03-27-2012, 03:01 PM

@thebrute7 You're making sense, although you could probably expand that to include all of the Holy Villagers. However it could be useful to have some of them on the court, firstly because it reduces the chance of scum getting on the court, but also because it might allow them to share their information better. So someone like the priest could be even more effective on the court, even if it might shorten their lifespan.

Sirion

03-27-2012, 03:37 PM

So, I'd like to put myself up for Court. I'm an active player with solid reads, especially towards the later part of the game. I often spend a lot of time trying to figure out wtf is going on in games like this, and it'd be awesome to try to work thought out with the court subgroup.

It seems like we have plenty of new people, though some of us have played with each other in different places, so it'll be an exciting game. I'll bring knowledge of many of the people who've played on the GOD forums, if the court seems to be lacking that.

Re: Kai's request to lead a lynch...
I don't really know exactly how this works, but I guess he just wants us to pick someone and pressure them for a while day 1?

In that case, working on the general knowledge that Lungs is always scum, especially mod!lungs, Deadline Lynch: Lungs.

Defy the odds, Lungs! Tell me it ain't so!

thebrute7

03-27-2012, 04:22 PM

@thebrute7 You're making sense, although you could probably expand that to include all of the Holy Villagers. However it could be useful to have some of them on the court, firstly because it reduces the chance of scum getting on the court, but also because it might allow them to share their information better. So someone like the priest could be even more effective on the court, even if it might shorten their lifespan.

yeah. If the Priest is on the Court, he gains some power, but is a bigger target, so its a trade of sorts. Having the Acolyte or Nun on the Court might be good, because they can keep the Court from using their NK to accidentally kill the Priest/Bishop. The Cupid... same sort of thing I guess.

StrikerLee1

03-27-2012, 04:35 PM

Hey guys, Sorry for my late posting working on final exams this week. I will be around to read everything at night time but during the day I have to keep focused. I will be more active when finals are over closer to the weekend. Will continue to read whats going on and make my votes as the day draws to an end.

coleam

03-27-2012, 04:49 PM

yeah. If the Priest is on the Court, he gains some power, but is a bigger target, so its a trade of sorts. Having the Acolyte or Nun on the Court might be good, because they can keep the Court from using their NK to accidentally kill the Priest/Bishop. The Cupid... same sort of thing I guess.

My understanding is that the members of the court are unknown to the general population. You can actively campaign, but ultimately, the King picks his court in private. The witches can, of course, find out the members of the court if one is selected though.

Or did I misread something?

thebrute7

03-27-2012, 04:56 PM

My understanding is that the members of the court are unknown to the general population. You can actively campaign, but ultimately, the King picks his court in private. The witches can, of course, find out the members of the court if one is selected though.

Or did I misread something?

Nah, you didn't misread. The thing is that you are likely to have at least one witch in the court, which means the rest of the witches know who is in the court, since Witches share a QT.

Which means that if the King believes someone might be the Priest or whoever, he has to choose between the possibility of making them a bigger target, and having their input in the Court.

TMNTurtwig

03-27-2012, 04:57 PM

I finally figured out that this has started, so I'm posting a hello. It's early and I don't have any reads with substance to go on, but I'm working on them. This is my first mafia game, but I'm going to try not to be too crummy at it. One thing I do know is that I don't want to be on the King's Court. I would probably drag down it's effictiveness and I don't think I could contribute to it well. I'm going to read the roles some more until I post again.

Eidolonic

03-27-2012, 05:48 PM

@Lungs

You are the King. Sleb at Queen, and Duke, gun to your head: Pick your 4 court members, and why. Meta reasons are fine, there's little to read from the thread, anyways.

@Kai

Awfully interested in getting activity going, and forcing people that want to be in the court into the limelight. I agree entirely, but, it asks the question - what about you? Do you want to be in the court, or are you content to just guide the town around without the extra scrutiny the court provides?

@BillDor

You say that you want to be on the court, and you'll be useful to have. Why? What do you bring that anyone else might not? And don't mention your role. Just, no.

Fenraellis

03-27-2012, 05:56 PM

Mmm, I didn't get a PM about this(not sure if that's a sign of anything?), so I didn't know that the roles were given out and the game had started until just recently.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind being on The Court, if for no other reason, than that I find these games much more interesting when working in groups. Honestly not sure who I would really want to lynch, if anybody, yet. That said, Eidolonic is being rather out there, which would be my most likely vote, but he has also expressed a desire to have a more robust and actively participating game, and that is certainly something that I can agree with when observing some of the past games.

Well, that or KaiDASH. No offense, but while you make things happen, you always seem to just bring too much focus of the game onto yourself. Kind of bothersome, but eh...

coleam

03-27-2012, 06:36 PM

Mmm, I didn't get a PM about this(not sure if that's a sign of anything?), so I didn't know that the roles were given out and the game had started until just recently.

Pretty sure no PMs were sent out for this one since roles were all assigned via Moscone rather than by RNG. I know I didn't get one either.

For future games, perhaps a group PM just to let everyone know that the game has begun might be a good idea. Either that, or have Moscone send out emails?

Bill Door

03-27-2012, 06:41 PM

@BillDor

You say that you want to be on the court, and you'll be useful to have. Why? What do you bring that anyone else might not? And don't mention your role. Just, no.

I'm usually able to get a fairly good read on players, from watching these games at least, and I generally have a fairly good bullshit detector which would come in useful when hunting any scum that have sneaked onto the court. While, yes there might be other people who can say the same, I'm going to be able to make my judgements based on what has happened and I won't be distracted by what people have done in previous games that has no relevance on this game.

bob99

03-27-2012, 06:56 PM

Look, its the first day, so we basically have no information. It's usually kind of useless to vote to lynch someone unless they say something stupid. That said I have a candidate:

Hi all, just posting to say that I am here and I still haven't found out my role. So I am probably gonna have a small town role am for that reason I wanna be on the court.

so I think we should lynch him. He's untrustworthy and doesn't really know how to play. Asking for a role that should go to a holy villager without knowing your own role is stupid.

Eidolonic

03-27-2012, 07:07 PM

@bob99

I'm perfectly fine with lynching Klackerz unless he can actually convince me he's town, rather than a scum lying about not knowing his role, and wanting to infiltrate the court.

But I disagree with votes being useless. Even if the intention is not to actually 'kill' someone, a couple votes on a person pressures them into defending themselves, and you can learn an awful lot from both the defense, and who piles on.

I also disagree that the Court should be restricted to Holy Villagers. There is a high chance of at least one scum on the court, and they will communicate the names of people on the court to their fellow witches. Members of the court will die, and they will die fast. Most holy roles need to remain alive until later in the game to achieve maximum effectiveness.

bob99

03-27-2012, 07:32 PM

@bob99

I'm perfectly fine with lynching Klackerz unless he can actually convince me he's town, rather than a scum lying about not knowing his role, and wanting to infiltrate the court.

But I disagree with votes being useless. Even if the intention is not to actually 'kill' someone, a couple votes on a person pressures them into defending themselves, and you can learn an awful lot from both the defense, and who piles on.

I also disagree that the Court should be restricted to Holy Villagers. There is a high chance of at least one scum on the court, and they will communicate the names of people on the court to their fellow witches. Members of the court will die, and they will die fast. Most holy roles need to remain alive until later in the game to achieve maximum effectiveness.

My mistake, this is the first time I've played this variant online. I was under the impression that Holy villagers included good guys with less interesting roles. I was wrong, so I agree with you that the powerful roles should probably stay off the court.

Edit: Hey, chocolate pi, it would be cool if you changed the ui a little bit so that I either knew what game I entered, or I could not enter a game which I hadn't joined. It was a little bit confusing to enter another game and see that someone had already died.

coleam

03-27-2012, 08:33 PM

FYI, bob99, editing your posts is a no-no. If you want to add something, just make another post - it will automerge with your last one as long as no one posts in between.

Menace

03-27-2012, 09:11 PM

Welp, this seems like as good a place as any to start, so here we go:

Menace: Pick a player to priest check, kill and protect, then tell another player to do the same (give reason for at least 1/3)

Check: At this point, probably Eidolonic. Mostly because he's definitely one of, if not the most active posters, and I'd like to know whether or not he's just steering us towards the nearest cliff (coughHallowHuntcough).

Kill: Eh. Difficult, but I'd probably have to say either Gambit or Republic. Both have shown to be unreliable/bad in previous mafia games, and that's about all I have to go on at this point.

Protect: Hm... This option is similar to the kill one, so I'll treat it the same way: I'd protect Eidolonic. Mostly because while I'm reflexively suspicious of him, he's still a great asset to have if he's town, what with his abundance of posts and such.

These options are obviously subject to change, but that's what I've got to work with right now.

Also, in regards to the King's Court, I think I'll abstain from actively campaigning, for the reasons I stated in the other WitchHunt. Namely, I don't think I'm yet experienced enough to be that great of an accident to the Court. I'll do as best I can if the King chooses me, of course, but that's up to them to decide.

3 completely proven players and one of our best up-and-coming people, etc. At least I'll know that if they lurk, they'll have brilliant stuff to tell the Court when they're not lurking (Fen) or just a continued stream of good analysis, etc.

@Sirion: I TRUSTED YOU. D: But really, lol. But not really. >_>

Mishie

03-27-2012, 09:35 PM

Well, since this has gotten so quiet and I'm bored, here are some questions for Kaidash, Lutris, Seratin, Klackerz and Ashaya, other people can answer but those are the 5 that I want to get opinions out of:

1. Which roles do you think would be the most dangerous for scum to have? Which roles would town benefit the most from, of the ones besides the holy roles?

2. If you were King, which players would you lean towards choosing, right now, for your court and why?

3. Going along with that scenario, if you were King and eventually, you discovered there was either the Duke or the Queen was scum, how would you react and why? How would you react differently in each scenario?

4. When is the right time for a Priest or Gravedigger RR?

5. What is a good point for the Martyr to sacrifice themselves?

6. Under what circumstances should any of the pagans reveal themselves?

jwlk

03-27-2012, 09:57 PM

Ollie, your "I have a vital town role so don't kill me" Didn't convince me at all. In fact, it made me more suspicious since you virtually ignored me. If I had 5 votes I would put them all on you -_-. You're not going to get off the hook by ignoring the vote, and seemingly a lot of people wouldn't mind you dead, (Why don't you put votes then? To pressure).

If you're taking the game seriously, then prove it.

KaiDASH

03-27-2012, 10:38 PM

Well, @Kai,

I was going to say if you make that a requirement, I might as well rescind and call it a day, because obviously(?) I have no suspicion, after a few hours -- and I doubt that anyone has, and if they do say they have, they are lying.

Even picking a random and having it fizzle out is still an overall +town interaction.

@Kai

Awfully interested in getting activity going, and forcing people that want to be in the court into the limelight. I agree entirely, but, it asks the question - what about you? Do you want to be in the court, or are you content to just guide the town around without the extra scrutiny the court provides?

I have a quote for this!

king should be picking from his townreads out of the entire playerlist, not just those that actively campaign for it.

campaigning for it just gives you more opportunity to sell yourself as town.

Well, since this has gotten so quiet and I'm bored, here are some questions for Kaidash, Lutris, Seratin, Klackerz and Ashaya, other people can answer but those are the 5 that I want to get opinions out of:

-snip-

1. Gravedigger and Henchman are two of the stronger scum roles, for pretty obvious reasons I think.

2. Eidolonic, jwlk, sirion, sesc, because townread.

3. If duke is suspected scum, force them to pick a specific player as their replacement then kill them. Queen, just kill them.

4. Gravedigger is not guaranteed town. Priest revealing is kind of tricky since it depends on things like how town is going, amount of innocent/scum checks, etc.

5. It's good for martyr to sac for a strong town player.

6. Moonlight pagan is similar to martyr, except you don't find out who you're saving. Twilight Pagan has a few really specific uses that I don't want to talk about. Sunlight pagan is good if there are multiple people that need to be killed at the same time.

Keep in mind though that pagans and the martyr are not always town, so there are things that the witches can do with them too.

Oliver Kingston

03-28-2012, 01:08 AM

Sorry jwlk I actually had missed part of your post. what exactly do you want? I can't say much about my role because it'll be revealed (obviously).

Honestly I could see lynching me even if I am town as protown from your perspective since I'm sometimes a bit of a liability. I'm just assuming you're town to be nice.

Moridin

03-28-2012, 01:49 AM

Well, since this has gotten so quiet and I'm bored, here are some questions for Kaidash, Lutris, Seratin, Klackerz and Ashaya, other people can answer but those are the 5 that I want to get opinions out of:

1. Which roles do you think would be the most dangerous for scum to have? Which roles would town benefit the most from, of the ones besides the holy roles?

2. If you were King, which players would you lean towards choosing, right now, for your court and why?

3. Going along with that scenario, if you were King and eventually, you discovered there was either the Duke or the Queen was scum, how would you react and why? How would you react differently in each scenario?

4. When is the right time for a Priest or Gravedigger RR?

5. What is a good point for the Martyr to sacrifice themselves?

6. Under what circumstances should any of the pagans reveal themselves?

1. I'd say scum judge, gravedigger, inquisitor. Judge because in a large game, there is sometimes a non-consensus, and that basically gives scum an extra kill. Gravedigger because of the extra information afforded to scum, which could help in both narrowing down roles and false revealing. Inquisitor to, of course, hunt down holy townies.

2. I'd have said either Eidolonic or Kai, but their aggressive posting makes me feel they might end up dead soon. Still, I said that about Kai before and he lived, so I'd probably include him. Along with that, I'd pick CheddarTrek and Jwlk, and either Sirion or Sesc.

3. Well, I'm not sure I could force the Duke to pick a replacement, so I'd just kill him and his replacement. If the Queen was scum, well... there's not much that can be deduced from even/odd, so I'd still rely on my reads on the others. And kill the Queen, ofc.

4. A priest RR should come well into the midgame, after he has either a bunch of innocents (who are under suspicion, as the priest's targets should be if he is competent) or has fingered a decent number of scum. A gravedigger should, similarly, RR only after a few days have passed and he has some important information (like debunking a false RR or simply providing information on lynches so votelist analysis can take place).

5. It's tricky, and depends greatly on the player and the target. If a strong town player is being targeted (such as a revealed bishop, cupid, priest or king, for example, or a gravedigger or judge he believes is town), that would be an appropriate time. The problem is determining when it is optimal and when it is better to wait, and frankly, only good judgement can help with that one.

6. There are several situations where skipping night is beneficial, so the Twilight Pagan should reveal then - it's usually obvious. The Sunlight Pagan could reveal if he anticipates a large number of kills, and/or if there are a number of people that obviously need killing (are more or less revealed as town). The Moonlight Pagan differs from the martyr in that it requires a reveal, so is basically a block on the scum NK that instead grants one of them an extra life - could be useful in case of a required protection on a target, where their survival is important enough to make up for the extra life.

Lutris

03-28-2012, 05:42 AM

I apologize beforehand for the tl;dr (chiefly to Ash who I know hates them).

So, Lutris, you pretty much agree with everyone and everything in your posts #60 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550357&postcount=60) and #67. How very... safe. Also no real content, no real pressure if not Kai-induced and a scummy first post.

Deadline Lynch Vote: Lutris

It's Day 1, dude. I appreciate the effort to throw out accusations and gather data about how I'm playing, but I'm not sure on how my first post could come across as scummy. Explain?

I do agree that my posts at the moment have no real content that hasn't already been mentioned already, and aren't pressuring anybody into responding (and in hindsight I agree that playing defensively or without a strong opinion this early in the game can be a scum tell). We could chalk that up to my long hiatus from actually playing mafia, but that's no excuse for anything so I guess I don't really have a defense for myself.

Your suspicion of me does raise a few questions though, so I'll put it in boldface:

@Uncle Stojil (and StrikerLee I suppose, since you did place a lynch vote for me yesterday though I suspect accidentally):

Do you believe that there is a scummy connection between myself and Ollie (Gambit)? If so, of what nature and why?

Well, since this has gotten so quiet and I'm bored, here are some questions for Kaidash, Lutris, Seratin, Klackerz and Ashaya, other people can answer but those are the 5 that I want to get opinions out of:

1. Which roles do you think would be the most dangerous for scum to have? Which roles would town benefit the most from, of the ones besides the holy roles?

To answer the first bit, obviously tanky scum can be very dangerous especially given poor game design (heyooo HoT2) but that's not an issue here esp. with the number of experienced players. For the most part I'd say that powerful inforoles such as the Gravedigger, Inquisitor, or the Henchman are the most negative for town should they be chosen as scum.

2. If you were King, which players would you lean towards choosing, right now, for your court and why?

Assuming that they weren't already on my court, I'm leaning towards Lungs, CheddarTrek, Sesc, and Moridin, if for the simplistic reason that they seem to be playing the most overtly pro-town while still exercising caution in their posts. KaiDASH would be on the list, as would Geabe for their analytical strengths but I honestly have a hard time reading them so for now I wouldn't consider them on my Court.

3. Going along with that scenario, if you were King and eventually, you discovered there was either the Duke or the Queen was scum, how would you react and why? How would you react differently in each scenario?

Given that the Duke and Queen are on the Court from the getgo, any roles that were revealed inside the Court QT would be known to the Coven, and thus the only +town thing I could do would be to ensure that one Witch is dead by killing them off, as killing them would do nothing to hide information that was already leaked at the beginning of the game.

If the Queen is scum, then it is optimal to simply kill her off. Her information is applicable only when the King chooses his Court (if I'm not misreading the roles), meaning only on Day/Night 1 and not on subsequent cycles. Without the merit of additional information (and besides, they're going to lie anyway if they have any brains) and since unlike the Duke, no additional players will join the Court, it's a safe bet to simply kill the Queen off.

If the Duke is scum, then killing him off would only ensure that he would be replaced and another player entered into my Court. As Moridin pointed out, there would be no way of knowing whether the replacement would be scum or innocent- either way, killing the replacement would be the most prudent course of action. There would need to be a judgment call as to whether to kill the Duke at that time- killing him would most likely necessitate the death of another player, and if the Duke is scum it would be in his best interest to throw in a Town player as his replacement because it would automatically color them guilty by association. If killing an additional, potentially Town player would still be +town, then I'm all for killing my traitorous Duke.

4. When is the right time for a Priest or Gravedigger RR?

As in all games, powerful inforoles such as the Priest or Gravedigger should only reveal their roles during midgame or if they have had a number of their checks come back. I think this question is a bit foolish as there's really only one answer to this question that is unquestionably "right", because all other answers depend on the specifics of how that particular game has played out.

Still, the Gravedigger is a potential scum role, so I suppose that also merits answering. If the Gravedigger is scum, then their reveal would also be optimal during the midgame to sell themselves as town, at endgame (or at any other time really) to 'debunk' truthful roleclaims. I suppose the opposite would be true for town!Gravedigger as well.

5. What is a good point for the Martyr to sacrifice themselves?

To save a potential powerful inforole Holy Villager like the Priest or the Bishop, or to save an otherwise confirmed Town player. Continuing with the idea of scum players as these roles, if Martyr is a scum player, it is still potentially optimal for scum to save a town role to better sell a fakeclaim or series of fakeclaims, or kep a -town player alive such as a fellow Witch or potential/confirmed Junior Witch.

6. Under what circumstances should any of the pagans reveal themselves?

Longass question. Here goes.

Obviously the Twilight Pagan is best used to prevent scum action when it is crucial for Town players to survive and when enough info is out in the open that an additional Priest check is unnecessary. The Sunlight Pagan would ideally use their ability when it is severely negative for the Coven to NOT kill a player. This will ensure that the Coven will indeed kill a player during the Night rather than opting not to act, and it would be doubly optimal if the identities of the Coven were known so as to maximize the effect of these deaths. Again, the Moonlight Pagan must use their ability when it is severely -Coven to not target a Town player. However, unless I'm reading their abilities wrong, when the Sunlight/Moonlight Pagans use their abilities, a very +Coven thing the witches can do is simply not target anybody (unless inviting a potential spy in their midst is unacceptable), so I'm actually not entirely secure in the idea of them using their abilities unless Town already has an advantage. But I could be misreading things so eh.

KaiDASH

03-28-2012, 06:08 AM

27/30 people have posted in the thread. a bunch of people have 1 post (and the people with two posts aren't doing much better).

so I think we should lynch him. He's untrustworthy and doesn't really know how to play. Asking for a role that should go to a holy villager without knowing your own role is stupid.

If I was a scum, I really wouldn't have typed such a post. It was just a stupid mistake of mine typing without knowing my role.

Well, since this has gotten so quiet and I'm bored, here are some questions for Kaidash, Lutris, Seratin, Klackerz and Ashaya, other people can answer but those are the 5 that I want to get opinions out of

...

1.The most dangerous role for any side to have would be the judge,the gravedigger and the henchman though the judge is useful only during the first few days.

2. I would probably choose Sesc and sirion. I will have to wait for more posts to choose the other two players.

3.If the Queen is a scum, the only options is to kill the Queen as fast as possible. If the Duke is scum,then killing the Duke would mean that all possible Court player will be tainted by the association and he will have to be killed. I would advocate to kill both the Duke and the replaced player since the chance of getting two scum is high.

4.The Priest should role reveal when he has knowledge of at-least two or more scums. The Gravedigger should role reveal if he has knowledge of a player fake-claiming a role.

5.The Martyr should sacrifice himself to save someone who is undoubtedly town.

6.As Moridin said, The Twilight Pagan should use his/her power during the time when a free night is needed badly. The Sunlight Pagan should use the power when the town needs to kill a confirmed scum if two or more scums are alive. I am confused about the Moonlight Pagan since the scum can just not kill that night.

Geabe

03-28-2012, 09:36 AM

I shall answer Mishie's questions as well.

Initial apologies for what is going to be a long (and maybe lengthy) post. On the other hand, it is a detailed response, in my opinion.

1. Which roles do you think would be the most dangerous for scum to have? Which roles would town benefit the most from, of the ones besides the holy roles?

It has already been said, but I reiterate; information roles are dangerous for Scum to have. This is the obvious answer: Gravedigger, Henchman, and Inquisitor.

However, in middle/late game, it is equally disastrous for Scum to possess some sort of extra life or extra kill which could level the numbers. For that reason, in the late game, Survivalist is particularly helpful to Scum (aka detrimental to Town), especially if the extra life is unnoticed. By the same reasoning through an extra kill, the Dirty Old Bastard (Warlock hunt Assassin equal) and the Hunter are dangerous midgame Scum roles.

If the scum!Queen is a good player, then it is very much beneficial for Scum as well.

The converse reasoning for beneficial Town roles holds true. That is to say, the most damaging to Town (provided they are Scum) would also be the most beneficial to Town (if they are Town). I'd like to mention the Sunlight Pagan, however, as being helpful as well. The only reason for this is that if we have a list of players which we'd like to get rid off in one shot, then this is the way to go. Note the danger, however, of too many Scum players having died. The overall effect should be to achieve a win or near-win, not to allow a chance for Scum to effect many kills (Town has limited information, remember!).

The reason, then, why I did not mention the Sunlight Pagan as dangerous Scum? This is because Sunlight Pagan as Scum would allow us to pinpoint the Scum much more easily. Consider the following scenario:

x is scum!SP
x uses his power
n dead scum kills n town players
m town players kills m town players, where m<n most likely.
Then any *strong* or *obvious* players not targeted, unless explicitly proven or close-to-100% confirmed Town, is highly likely to be scum.
(Note that the above statement is not set in stone.)

2. If you were King, which players would you lean towards choosing, right now, for your court and why?

KaiDASH: Same as above. On a plus side, strong analytical and planning skills.

Fenraellis: Strong analysis, as well as well-thought out reasoning.

Sesc: Strong analysis, and tends to be a good player.

KaiDASH and Fenraellis may also be detected under attack, at least according to my experience. Having a multitude of analytical players in the Court does not necessarily include the risk of having scum in the Court, but it is vital not to have an Elder and a Junior witch within the Court. At the same time, a highly analytical setup reduces the chance of Scum manipulation, and any attempt can be intepreted as a scum player.

(Of course, the above is assuming we don't have a Fenraellis/Fiat/KaiDASH scenario repeat itself.)

3. Going along with that scenario, if you were King and eventually, you discovered there was either the Duke or the Queen was scum, how would you react and why? How would you react differently in each scenario?

Assuming we don't know who, but highly suspected one or both:
I would suggest a player x for the Duke to let in (as Town as possible). Then I would kill the Duke.

Now there are several scenarios which could happen.

If x was let in then Duke is most likely town. Which implies killing the Queen would be a good move.
It is feasible that the scum!Duke lets in x to push our hand at killing the Queen. This also has the same effect.

If scum!Duke does not let x in, choosing y, then obviously y is highly likely scum and hence killing y is a good move. If y is a spy then by implication all Elder Witches know this spy. It would be safe to reveal in the Court. and we proceed to the scenario below.

The case where Duke and Queen are both scum, x would NOT be let in to avoid killing the Queen. Then y would reveal and cause the Queen's death.

The obvious difficulty in my scenario choice would be in deciding if y was a Spy or a Junior Witch, or an Elder Witch. This must be solved via analytical judgment. Don't rely on slips just because they occur.

For a confirmed case, just killing them off is fine.

4. When is the right time for a Priest or Gravedigger RR?

Priest RR should be in mid-game when the information would decide the game, or push Town a lot to the victory goal.

Gravedigger RR, assuming town: Same as Priest RR.

Gravedigger RR, assuming scum: The reveal would appear when there is enough doubt in the Town such that the deceit can carry on into the game beyond simply immediate effects. Alternatively, the Gravedigger can reveal when the Priest is dead, but not when the Priest is already in mid-game.

5. What is a good point for the Martyr to sacrifice themselves?

Clear cut for Town Martyr, I think. When there is an important Town role and it's obvious the kill has a high chance of occuring. (The former is more important than the latter!)

For a Scum Martyr, it would be to save one of their number with a good enough ability. Either way, it would be hard to tell, so we rely on the King's Court or Spies to execute the judgment call should the Martyr be Scum. (Notable if Scum was saved.)

6. Under what circumstances should any of the pagans reveal themselves?

Now, this question is difficult to answer due to the vagueness of the timing of the reveal. My answer to this may be fundamentally wrong. In that event, I will re-answer this if I have made a mistake.

Again, assume town.

Twilight: When a large number of kills is going to occur and you do not want the Scum to achieve this. Note that foiling Scum's plans is much more important than anything else.

Moonlight: When Scum is going to kill an important town player, similar to Martyr. Note that the role is revealed, however. In the late game, any Town player is fine as long as it helps Town's survival.

Sunlight: As soon as it becomes apparant that a huge blow on confirmed scum must be effected, but the counter-effect on Town isn't enough to counterbalance the Scum deaths. Refer to Question 1.

Now, we assume Scum.

Twilight: Will do this when important information needs and is to be gleamed by Town that night. May also reveal in the case of town!Moonlight revealing and foiling Scum's night kill.

Moonlight: Any time in the game when the Coven needs to give a member an extra life. Note that depending on how good the players in the Coven are, this MAY be indistinguishable from a town!Moonlight reveal.

Sunlight: Answered in Question 1. To repeat: When scum feels the need to kill town players urgently. Most likely this is because of a losing scenario. Another feasible scenario would be if reasonable doubt is cast on a significant number of Town players.

---

Now to answer KaiDASH's question.

Name a town read, a person you would priest check, a person you would kill, and a person you would doctor.

Town read: Eidolonic
Priest check: Sesc (if only for lack of understanding of how he plays)
Kill: Gambit OR Klackerz, whichever makes himself more scummy
Doctor: Eidolonic (due to the town read and high profile)

---

Of course, do inform me if I need to clarify anything I missed/may have been unclear about.

I experience difficulty logging in, in the sense that when I log in, it does not always register as I having been logged in.

Formatting of my post also seems to have messed up somewhat.

I would be grateful if any person could kindly help me with suggestions on the log-in problem.

guljons

03-28-2012, 10:11 AM

Town read: Bill Door. Has made some pretty good points and expressed himself with a town feel for me.

Priest check: KaiDASH to get that question out of the way early, because there is always the question if he can be trusted.

Kill: Right now nobody, because I don't feel confident about anyone being a scum at this point. Will decide on this after some more reading.

Doctor: Geabe, because he is giving pretty good thoughts and putting himself on the board.

Looking at the role list I stop at the Templar. So pretty much he uses his power if he thinks atleast one of the revealed Pagans are scum, but town doesn't agree with him to lynch?
Or if he is scum Templar to get up to 3 extra kills, but this pretty much would confirm him as scum to me, if he couldn't give really good reasons for doing this.
So yeah this role to me seems both as the most useless if game goes in certain direction and potentially really dangerous if it is in scum hands.

Fenraellis

03-28-2012, 10:24 AM

Hrm, I was just getting home and starting my usual stuff when my isp disconnected my internet, and despite paying it directly afterwards, it wasn't reactivated again for several hours. I... took an extended nap >_>

That being said, I'm just checking before heading off to campus this morning, but I thought I would at least respond to KaiDASH's question of me.

Name a town read, a person you would priest check, a person you would kill, and a person you would doctor.

Town Read:
I would probably say either Geabe, KaiDASH or Eidolonic(but not necessarily all three!). This due to their implied desire to actually get information dispersed, and at least with the latter two, get people talking and discussing things.

Conversely the above could be the actions of scum attempting to appear town, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

Kill:
Ollie, perhaps, if anybody right now.
His play hasn't exactly inspired trust in him so far. I never have liked uninformed selecting of targets to kill though(I'll admit that doing so as scum has been fun in the past), as my lackluster lynch vote history would prove.

Doctor:
KaiDASH or Eidolonic, as they are some of the most vocal players, and it is generally to the advantage of scum to remove said players' influence from the game as early as they can.

Sesc

03-28-2012, 11:15 AM

Azira, Seratin and Platypus_Assassin

Is it possible they haven't yet realised the game has started? Perhaps someone should PM them.

@bob99

I'm perfectly fine with lynching Klackerz unless he can actually convince me he's town, rather than a scum lying about not knowing his role, and wanting to infiltrate the court.

But I disagree with votes being useless. Even if the intention is not to actually 'kill' someone, a couple votes on a person pressures them into defending themselves, and you can learn an awful lot from both the defense, and who piles on.

I also disagree that the Court should be restricted to Holy Villagers. There is a high chance of at least one scum on the court, and they will communicate the names of people on the court to their fellow witches. Members of the court will die, and they will die fast. Most holy roles need to remain alive until later in the game to achieve maximum effectiveness.

The problem with this is that it easily becomes a catch-22, when being defensive is interpreted as a sign of guilt, and being aggressive is interpreted as a sign of even more guilt.

Or you ... just don't post at all, like klackerz :|

Regarding the court: I've read that a couple of times now, but it hasn't gotten more plausible by simply repeating it: what interest do the witches have in killing court members specifically? I mean, more than they would others? I don't see it. It's not like killing a court member will have any advantage, since they can't be sure the replacement will be a witch, and if court members start dying off in spades, they can just as well post a sign HEY WE HAVE A WITCH IN THERE.

So that's stupid. And I'd still like to know wtf you were doing with your random votes, Eidolonic. Was there any sort of plan behind it?

Koalas

03-28-2012, 11:30 AM

Alrighty. The same names seem to keep popping up in this so I'll try to throw some new ones into this.

Town read: Moridin

I've played with him in several games at this point and I've found two things. He, outside of major derpitude in HoT2 due to meta, makes a solid player and that he doesn't make the most subtle scum. Outside of meta, his recent posts have been reasonably thought out and I'm getting that town vibe off of his posts.

Priest Check: Night 1 (Kai), Night 2 (Fenraellis)

Kai is likely to end up on the Court and given his ability to.. convince people that its his way or no way checking him Night 1 is about as +town as you can get. Night Two check, barring an obvious 'we need to know' check I'd say Fen. He's good at Mafia and if past games are anything to go on will only become more prolific as the days go by.

Kill: ---

I don't have a real answer for this one unfortunately. There's a couple people I'd consider throwing a lynch vote at (Gambit, jwlk, klackerz) but only one person I'd consider using a Kill ability on, but that's entirely due to meta reasons (plus he's dropped out..)

Doctor:

By definition my Doctor choices would correspond with my Priest check choices, as they tend to be the power players.

@Sesc: You should give the rules another once over. The King's Court is broken up once they hit two members.

KaiDASH

03-28-2012, 11:33 AM

The problem with this is that it easily becomes a catch-22, when being defensive is interpreted as a sign of guilt, and being aggressive is interpreted as a sign of even more guilt.

Do tell then Sesc, how we're supposed to find scum without actively using the threat of a lynch?

'Lynch scum' as a concept is all well and good, but to get to that point first scum must be found, and the best way to force scum to slip up is to pressure them using lynch votes. Sure, maybe scum will fuck up on their own (/stare/ at HoT2) making actual playing of the game unnecessary, but usually things are not so idyllic.

The Catch22 is possible, but I'd hope that people are discerning enough to not be so simple in their reasoning ('herp derp playing the game is a scumtell'). And honestly, if (oh who am I kidding the catch22 already exists in dlp meta), with such a catch22 I'd rather encourage a meta which supports aggressive, fluid play, rather than a meta which supports passive play and waiting for scum to fuck up.

For courtkills, you hugely underestimate the power of a shared qt. Also, the court kill effectively doubles the power of town, since instead of just having 1 town-aligned kill (the lynch), there are two (lynch+court kill). So it is in the best interests of scum to cripple such a powerful thing asap (and I'm saying this because I think it's so obvious).

StrikerLee1

03-28-2012, 11:39 AM

Lutris to answer your question, yes it was accidental. I was trying to figure out how some of the features worked on Moscone so was experimenting by just clicking around.

Sesc

03-28-2012, 12:05 PM

Hgnh ... Dunno where I got the idea with the replacements from. I was sure I read that somewhere, but oh well. It's still true that everyone not dying will be looked at suspiciously.

@Kai: I dunno, how have we managed to do it so far? 'herp derp playing the game is a scumtell' is exactly what happened in other games. Then again, it's not like it matters, because at the moment, the people in question simply don't post at all; and if we end up picking a random lynch, we might as well do it this way. http://www.timbermtb.org/forum/images/smilies/shrug.gif

Seratin

03-28-2012, 12:17 PM

Ireland gets a few good days of sun and I burn to a crisp. Spent the day at the beach yesterday and night in the pub so sorry for my late entrance. Caught up on the thread now though.

First thing that struck me is that Eido's posting like an asian on speed. That would have struck me as odd if not for the fact that he's displaying the exact same behaviour in the exact same game on a different forum.

Ash is being very quiet. Whether or not that's do to irl shit, it isn't like her. Almost as if she got a boring town role and isn't all that interested. Either that or she knows she'll get nuked if she posts too much.

1. Which roles do you think would be the most dangerous for scum to have? Which roles would town benefit the most from, of the ones besides the holy roles?

2. If you were King, which players would you lean towards choosing, right now, for your court and why?

3. Going along with that scenario, if you were King and eventually, you discovered there was either the Duke or the Queen was scum, how would you react and why? How would you react differently in each scenario?

4. When is the right time for a Priest or Gravedigger RR?

5. What is a good point for the Martyr to sacrifice themselves?

6. Under what circumstances should any of the pagans reveal themselves?

1. Obviously the Queen. Scum queen is damn near game breaking. Sum!Judge would be bad for town with our history of no lynches. Scum Wizard would be lethal near the endgame if the coven played it right. as for which roles would benefit town? The Judge, the auto-court roles and the pagans.

2. Sesc is smart guy with a good grasp of the game and as town would be a massive benefit to court so I'd pick him. Of course his strengths would also threaten the court greatly if he were scum.

Eidolonic is active and searches posts constantly trying to pick up little details. He's coming off more as town to me in this game than the other one so i'd be hapy to go with him.

Mishie and Menace would round off the court as I'm leaning towards a town read for them.

3. Honestly? I'll answer this the same as I answered it before. I'd shit myself at the prospect of one or both being town. Then I'd try to play it cool until I could get them lynched with minimal damage.

4. Depending on how the game has played out, mid to late game. If things are going haywire, mid game but if those roles think that they're in a good position then late game is best.

5. He shouldn't. Not until he's at least 80% sure of the role of the guy he's going to be saving. Let's say Lutris is a town court member and Martyr Lungs has a strong suspicion of this. Lungs would have to bite the bullet.

6. Twilight Pagan is a bit of a tank role actually. When shit is about to hit the fan for town he can step out of the shadows and save them, possibly allowing them time to knock out a threat. If this leads to town TP's death, he won't mind. Thing is, if he stopped a coven lynch on a big town member the coven would most likely try to kill that town member again as there would be less point killing a neutered pagan.

Sunlight pagan is dangerous late game and could cause complete havoc whereas early game could help the team he's on wipe out a chunk of the other faction. A game changer for scum.

Moonlight pagan is less effective than the other two as his effect isn't as certain. He'd need to reveal after someone like the Bishop revealed in order to help the bishop tank and take out scum. Of course if he's scum then the coven could just target themselves and give a player a 1up.

Name a town read, a person you would priest check, a person you would kill, and a person you would doctor.

Town read = Mishie.

He threw out some very good questions which can only help the town. I don't believe he's a sly enough player to be putting those questions out now so he seems less scummy. Then again, WINE.

Priest check = Eidolonic.

Solely because, while I think he's town I'd be a lot more comfortable with this game if I were sure of it.

Kill = Lutris.

Because he's rage.

Nah, in all seriousness I have no idea who I'd kill at the moment. it's just too early.

I'd doctor Eidolonic because there's a good chance he'll either be targeted by the coven or the court tonight for being the first loudmouth and I read him as town.

Moridin

03-28-2012, 12:33 PM

1. Obviously the Queen. Scum queen is damn near game breaking.

Actually, I don't see how a scum Queen is so dangerous. She is dangerous, don't get me wrong, not only because of her power but also because of her being part of the original court and having a say in the picking of new members, but she doesn't get the number of scum in the court, only whether they are even or odd. That would be harmful as it would mess with the town!court's scumreads on each other if their count was perceived as off by one, but it still doesn't put her above roles like the Inquisitor, Gravedigger or Judge, or even the Duke. The Duke has all the advantages of being on the original court as well, and has the added bonus of choosing a replacement, so if he's fingered by the court he could use the opportunity to replace himself by a townie who would be killed by necessity, or if he's randomly killed he'd just replace himself with another scum and so allow them to continue to keep an eye on the proceedings.

bob99

03-28-2012, 01:09 PM

Town Read: Off the top of my head, mishie. He put forward a lot of questions to the players, so that is in his favor. But I guess scum could try to do that to cover themselves, so I really don't know.

Kill: Klackerz, he screwed up and I don't trust him right now.

Priest check: Ollie, I remember him implying that he had a town role, so might as well check that out.

Doctor: Haven't found it in the role list yet, but if I could protect someone every night, mishie, otherwise I would wait a night and if I was on the court I would protect the king.

What doctor role are you referring too? I haven't found it in the role list or the role section of moscone.

Uncle Stojil

03-28-2012, 01:30 PM

It's Day 1, dude. I appreciate the effort to throw out accusations and gather data about how I'm playing, but I'm not sure on how my first post could come across as scummy. Explain?

I do agree that my posts at the moment have no real content that hasn't already been mentioned already, and aren't pressuring anybody into responding (and in hindsight I agree that playing defensively or without a strong opinion this early in the game can be a scum tell). We could chalk that up to my long hiatus from actually playing mafia, but that's no excuse for anything so I guess I don't really have a defense for myself.

Your suspicion of me does raise a few questions though, so I'll put it in boldface:

@Uncle Stojil (and StrikerLee I suppose, since you did place a lynch vote for me yesterday though I suspect accidentally):

Do you believe that there is a scummy connection between myself and Ollie (Gambit)? If so, of what nature and why?

Because of that thing in the first page? Nah, I seriously doubt it.

I'm going to assume from now on that you just like agreeing with people, even when they soft-accuse you. :rolleyes:

The rest of your post had definitely content, though, and wasn't all that safe. If my vote had even a small part in it, then I consider myself satisfied for now.

Rescind vote

At the moment, contrary to what seems to be the common trend, I find mishie and Eidolonic slightly scummy for metagaming reasons. Let's go with Eido.

This is all kinds of 'what' to me. You want to be on the court because you will 'probably have a small town role', despite not knowing what your role is (supposedly).

Not buying it. At all.

Still think Azira wagon could confirm his alignment pretty early, but this just... no.

Rescind Vote

Vote Klackerz

You're in a hole. Dig your way out of it.

I find your targets lacking. Aziraphale had yet to post (still has) when you voted for him, seemingly to sell yourself for the Court (and to put some pressure, I'm sure). He's also what I would consider an "easy target" for such a job, in the sense that he almost always appears scummy, even when he's not (sorry Azira :)). You definitely know that (you commented on it in various other games I've been in and on irc, I think). So it looks to me like you want to get your hands on supposed scum-tells sort of... no matter what? Either you're very eager to scum-hunt or you want to point at "easy targets", like I said. Klackerz' stupid reasoning lends itself very well to that, too.

Keeping my eyes on you. Here on DLP, too. ;)

coleam

03-28-2012, 02:31 PM

Name a town read, a person you would priest check, a person you would kill, and a person you would doctor.
While I'm not on the list, I also haven't posted very much, so I'll answer.

Town Read: Moridin; I share several of his opinions (Scum Queen being dangerous, but hardly a powerhouse, Ash being slightly suspicious) and he seems town-ish for now.

Priest Check: This is a tough one. Kai is an obvious choice since he's always such a high-profile player and tends to lead the town around. Ash is another possibility, since she's usually very prolific. And I always seem to get a bad vibe off of Gaebe for some unknown reason.

Kill: no one at this point. No one has derped hardcore and there hasn't really been enough posted to get a solid read on anyone.

Protect: Sesc. He has a history of dying fairly early, from what I remember, and he's a good player. I'd say Ash for the same reason, but her lack of posting points to her either being scum or having a boring/useless role.

bob99:

Why kill klackerz? He did something sort of stupid, but he's played enough to know that that wouldn't work as a ploy to get scum on the court. He's probably worth keeping an eye on for a while, of course, but killing him over it seems a bit extreme.

And I don't see the need to check Ollie/Gambit. In my experience, if he's scum, he'll screw up on his own sooner rather than later. Why waste a check on him when there are so many powerhouse players in the game?

Oh, also, I'd like to petition for shorter days. If we keep the days and nights at this length, there's a good chance that I'll have to bow out. I'll be out of town for several weeks with zero internet access sometime around the middle/end of May.

Klackerz

03-28-2012, 02:45 PM

@bob99
You really want to lynch me based on a post I posted before I even found out my role?

Lynch: Still need some more information. Azira and Platypus still need to post and Republic21 has to be replaced.

Protect: Hmm, I would protect Moridin. He seems like a pretty good dependable player.

bob99

03-28-2012, 03:33 PM

Yes I do want to lynch you. I don't care that you didn't know your role, I care that you didn't know your role and then tried to lobby for a position on the court. I think that wasn't very smart, for one thing, I don't think some roles would be a good fit for the court. And for another, you can't claim to be a good guy when you admit to not knowing your role.

Also because of that I don't think I could really get a good read on you because of that first statement. Scum wants to get on so they can sell the court out. Though I can't accuse you of that because you wanted on it before you knew your role. In short, finding your role should not change a single thing in how you played this night. Because if you were scum you would be acting like a townie to avoid suspicion.

In short, I don't have a lot of information this round. And in later rounds I might change my mind and think that you shouldn't be lynched. But if we are going to lynch someone tonight, you are at the top of my list.

Oliver Kingston

03-28-2012, 03:37 PM

I actually have to point out Cole that the one time I screwed up as town I helped a warlock win

On Accident

but I've got no issue with being checked, If I am, then I have Faith that I'll be cleared and we'll not have any more issues.

Eidolonic

03-28-2012, 04:01 PM

@Klackerz
I'm pretty okay with lynching you for a post you made 'before you got your role', too, actually. Mostly because I'm not sure I buy that.

@Stolji
Of course my targets are lacking. But Azira hadn't posted (still hasn't, for that matter), and I thought we could potentially learn something from his response to pressure. Because he's not going to be all YOU MUST BE SCUM FOR SUSPECTING ME again... right? Kai asked people that wished to persue a spot on the court poke someone for a lynch, and I chose someone we could probably get an alignment read out of early. So yeah, maybe it is an easy target. That was the point.

Azira

03-28-2012, 04:18 PM

Hey guys so very sorry I haven't posted yet, things are hectic irl but I am now catching up to the thread and will post thoughts and stuff. If I can't get my bearing and rl keeps being insane I'll ask to be replaced.

Eidolonic

03-28-2012, 04:20 PM

@bob99
You really want to lynch me based on a post I posted before I even found out my role?

It's really not a good idea to stealth vote, people. If you vote on the client, vote in the thread, as well. It's a good way to look witchy as hell and get lynched.

Uncle Stojil

03-28-2012, 04:22 PM

@Stolji
Of course my targets are lacking. But Azira hadn't posted (still hasn't, for that matter), and I thought we could potentially learn something from his response to pressure. Because he's not going to be all YOU MUST BE SCUM FOR SUSPECTING ME again... right? Kai asked people that wished to persue a spot on the court poke someone for a lynch, and I chose someone we could probably get an alignment read out of early. So yeah, maybe it is an easy target. That was the point.

And you missed mine. With easy target I meant that it's more or less easy to elicit a strong scummy vibe from him even when he's town. Klackerz' post was stupid and "out there", and accusing him for it smells like an easy, exploitable and convenient plan too.

Eidolonic

03-28-2012, 04:27 PM

I'll grant you that, but it doesn't mean we should outright dismiss it as 'being' possibly scummy, either. It's early in day one, I'm going to throw votes and suspicion around and see how people react.

You find that scummy in of itself, I know. But eventually you'll have to accept it's how I like to play, early. :P

Klackerz

03-28-2012, 04:29 PM

I was trying out the Moscone vote thingy. I thought I removed the vote but I clearly didn't.

Azira

03-28-2012, 04:41 PM

Right after going through the thread, here are some initial thoughts about this thing...

There are so many configurations in this game of roles/witches/etc that its going to take me a while to get my head around it. Unfortunately for us, picking the King's court wisely will be pivotal if we want to win. So far people I would not pick for the court:

Lutris, Ashaya, Eidolonic, Lungs - in that order.

People I would like to see on it:

KaiDASH, Stojil, Moridin. Also in that order.

Lutris is coming off VERY weird to me, not particularly scummy but just very reluctant - a strong role (either town or scum) that doesn't want attention on itself and is trying to divert it.

Ashaya being so very quiet always sends off alarm bells to me.

Eidolonic because his posting has been really weird, I actually like that he voted for me because I also think pressuring lurkers (despite the fact that I just didn't know the game had started) is the way to go in mafia since in every game I've played the hardest lurkers were scum. After that though all his posts have been off, sometimes smug and sometimes serious and are throwing me off.

Lungs because... the play he and Lutris had at the start was REALLY awkward. Sometime definitely off there.

I like Kai for the court because I think in this type of game we need his experience to pull through. If he's town, we're on the way to win. Even if he's scum he usually keeps playing townie in terms of what he divulges and the thoughts he shares, but he will have to do something 'different' to lead us off from his scumteam so we can be alert and try to catch the slip, because there will have to be a slip eventually.

Stojil and Moridin come off as town so far to me, levelheaded posts and good thinking, and I think they're good candidates for Court.

Ash

03-28-2012, 05:05 PM

Ash is being very quiet. Whether or not that's do to irl shit, it isn't like her. Almost as if she got a boring town role and isn't all that interested. Either that or she knows she'll get nuked if she posts too much.

IRL shit. Still in Atlanta, going to GoT season 2 premiere in a bit. Was supposed to be on my way home from a looooonng vacation today, but how could I say no to GoT??? Anyway, it is my understanding that Day 1 is long, so I wasn't going to worry about it while I was here. Besides, not posting seems to have thrown you guys off. COME AT ME, BROS.

Klackerz

03-28-2012, 05:11 PM

IRL shit. Still in Atlanta, going to GoT season 2 premiere in a bit. Was supposed to be on my way home from a looooonng vacation today, but how could I say no to GoT??? Anyway, it is my understanding that Day 1 is long, so I wasn't going to worry about it while I was here. Besides, not posting seems to have thrown you guys off. COME AT ME, BROS.

GOT2 premiere? I am so fucking jealous :|

Anyway, off to sleep now.

CheddarTrek

03-28-2012, 05:50 PM

Hm, talking is nice.

guljons

03-28-2012, 06:33 PM

The king should probably also choose someone who isn't so much standing out, because if Court gets lucky and no witches get in, it would make getting them down to 2 members tougher and earn extra days for KC to take out suspected witches.

Well hidden court member could be really beneficial, but it would only work if there were no witches getting in.

coleam

03-28-2012, 06:56 PM

I actually have to point out Cole that the one time I screwed up as town I helped a warlock win

On Accident

but I've got no issue with being checked, If I am, then I have Faith that I'll be cleared and we'll not have any more issues.

I wasn't talking about you derping as town, just scum. In other words, if you're scum, you'll probably end up giving yourself away somehow, so no need to waste a check.

Not to mention that (sorry) most people don't consider your opinions as weighty as, say, Kai's, so I'd rather that someone with a little more influence get checked because having them as scum could screw the town over a lot more than having you as scum.

Oliver Kingston

03-28-2012, 07:05 PM

That's a valid argument, but I've been called scum every game, in fact I was even lynched for being so scummy in SW1 ... I wasn't scum.

I'm always called out as scum, and sometimes I am. This time I'm not.

I agree some people would be more important for a check, like Lungs, Sesc, or Kai.

Lungs

03-29-2012, 12:52 AM

Hai guys, why is this thread dead, there are 30 of us >_>

I'm personally not sure of what to do, so I want more people to fucking campaign for Courtseats. >_>

This is mostly filler and a post to remind people that this thing exists, since it's super unfun when inactivity. >_>

Uncle Stojil

03-29-2012, 12:59 AM

Alright, Lungs, question: can you tell me all the differences of this game from the one you are/were running?

Eidolonic

03-29-2012, 01:02 AM

Not sure that's a good question for this thread, it'll just confuse people.

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 01:03 AM

There's a changelog somewhere, once i'm on a pc and not my phone is can get it for you.

Lungs

03-29-2012, 01:04 AM

Err, I haven't really looked at the game like that, but from the top of my head and a quick skim of the rolelist:

1. Fanatic exists
2. Queen has been nerfed for town, I guess.

Otherwise, it looks somewhat like the same game?

Obviously, the posting dynamic is sort of different, at least people check in here >_>

Uncle Stojil

03-29-2012, 01:07 AM

I'm not really looking for an answer for myself, KaiDASH. I was hoping I would get something derpy from Lungs by what he mentioned and what he would't mention.

But since he hardly tried at all...

Klackerz

03-29-2012, 01:08 AM

Since this thread is not going anywhere now, I thoought I'll reply to bob99.

Yes I do want to lynch you. I don't care that you didn't know your role, I care that you didn't know your role and then tried to lobby for a position on the court. I think that wasn't very smart, for one thing, I don't think some roles would be a good fit for the court. I just thought I'll be a good fit for a role in the court and after finding out my role I'll reaffirm my statement making your second statement invalid

And for another, you can't claim to be a good guy when you admit to not knowing your role.What? I just wanted to post something seeing as the game had started and my mobile didn't have flash access.

Also because of that I don't think I could really get a good read on you because of that first statement. But you became convinced that I was a scum because of that first post

Scum wants to get on so they can sell the court out.Yep. Scum will try to get on the court to sell them out

Though I can't accuse you of that because you wanted on it before you knew your role.Then what was the point of the previous two statements?

In short, finding your role should not change a single thing in how you played this night. Because if you were scum you would be acting like a townie to avoid suspicion.I didn't change my play style at all and did you ever think that I am acting like a townie because I am a townie. You are reading too much into the situation.

In short, I don't have a lot of information this round. And in later rounds I might change my mind and think that you shouldn't be lynched. But if we are going to lynch someone tonight, you are at the top of my list.You admit that you don't have a lot of information but you're still making judgements just because of my first post.

Lungs

03-29-2012, 01:09 AM

Stojil, it's not my game, I don't care much about the changelog >_>

Moridin

03-29-2012, 01:29 AM

Also, there can be a lynch today. That's probably the most important change after the Queen nerf, and makes me thankful for the long day.

I just thought I'll be a good fit for a role in the court and after finding out my role I'll reaffirm my statement making your second statement invalid

You have to admit that there are roles which have no business being on the court and at the time of posting you had no reason to believe you weren't one of them.

If nothing else, posting that you want to be on the court, and then finding out you're the priest or something and having to make a noticeable u-turn would have been a pretty big tell in itself, don't you think? It was rather irresponsible of you to have put yourself forth for court without knowing if you really should be on it, and that is what I think makes a lot of us feel like it might have been scum trying to sneak onto court while leaving room for a backpedal, rather than such a big act of stupidity.

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 02:02 AM

hi can we stop talking about roles because really.

Saying x set of roles shouldn't be on the court, then encouraging people to say they shouldn't on the court is like the peak of stupid.

So no more rolecourt talk under punishment of my eternal lynch vote.

changelog: http://pastebin.com/xV8bGA2Q (and no, there is no trap to be had in asking for a list of facts unless you think lungs has a brick for a brain).

Eidolonic

03-29-2012, 02:10 AM

unless you think lungs has a brick for a brain).

Welllllllll, now that you mention it....

:awesome

Lungs

03-29-2012, 02:14 AM

Welllllllll, now that you mention it....

:awesome

This brick is state of the art, sir. It was made well. D:

Oliver Kingston

03-29-2012, 02:35 AM

This brick is state of the art, sir. It was made well. D:

I helped!

I won't be on for about 15 hours so if I don't reply to inane bullshit, I'm away from the phone right now.

jwlk

03-29-2012, 06:26 AM

Okay, first of... the Ollie thing isn't going anywhere, and he at least responded to me now. So i'm going to Unvote: Ollie.

but this is pretty much because I found a much better target.... Geabe. What were you thinking in your recent post?

LETS TELL SCUM HOW TO PLAY ROLES

It was way to long to quote, but go re-read what you said... You basically made a beneficial list of how-to-play certain roles.... ... FOR THE SCUM. In what world is this a good thing? Did you even think about it before you wrote it out? Vote: Geabe

Helping scum by telling them how to play certain roles is the opposite of what you should be doing.

Okay, now for Kai's question. A town read, a priest check, a person I would kill, and a person I would save.

My first town read is... Surprisingly Kai himself. I've been pretty happy with his posts, and he is generally trying to lead town/king to make educated decisions. Plus, I agree with his more proactive approach to this game, rather then the, "lets sit around and see what happens" approach..

Priest check: This one would also, have to go to Kai. Even though I have a town read on him, he is a devious guy, and i'd be stupid to naively trust him. He would probably be on my top 2 to check first in this game.

Kill: At this point? Definitely Geabe. If you need reasons, check out my post above^

Person i'd save?: At this point, i'm not to sure about many people. Sirion comes from another forums (GOD) that i've played mafia on. He's a solid player, and definitely an asset to town. He made promises to be more active, so if he posts more he could definitely be on of my picks. At this point though, I don't think i'd really save anyone, because... who knows? I'll need to get more of a read on people... So, post guys! (And girls)

TMNTurtwig

03-29-2012, 07:07 AM

Name a town read, a person you would priest check, a person you would kill, and a person you would doctor.

I have town reads on Mishie and KaiDASH. Mishie and KaiDASH have been posting a lot and starting lots of conversation, and overall the two have struck me as two big townies.

I would definitely priest check Gambit. I think I know what role he is, but if I'm wrong then he's probably a witch.

I would doctor Mishie or KaiDASH because, general town reads, and they've been starting discussion.

Castiel

03-29-2012, 07:19 AM

So, -- Castiel, -- I ask of you the following:

Name a town read,

jwlk and Sesc

a person you would priest check,

The one who starts the most successful bandwagon by days end.

a person you would kill,

No one.

and a person you would doctor.

Either of the town reads. (If doctor means protect.)

Seratin

03-29-2012, 08:17 AM

At the start of this i wasn't going to bother campaigning for a court seat at all, simply because I still feel as if I've a lot to learn about mafia. I've changed my mind for a few reasons. I've got a few games under my belt at this stage and I'm playing this variant on GOD forums atm so I'm down with the various rules and roles.

My other reason is that while people like Eido and Kai have been standing out so far and I want to trust them, this is mafia. I can't trust anyone yet, really. Apart from myself. I know my role and the various strengths it has and so far I'm the only player that I know is town for certain. And one more town player on the court is always a good thing.

guljons

03-29-2012, 09:07 AM

Yeah, but why would Geabe post something like that if he was scum? He could just tell them privately if he wanted.

Seems to me he was just responding to a question and giving a broader answer to it.

Geabe

03-29-2012, 10:35 AM

I have had my rare chance to log in in this instance. If anyone could suggest reasons why, when I attempt to log in, the system still shows that I am a guest, I would be most grateful to you.

If you have solutions to this odd problem of mine, please do let me know as well.

Back to the game at hand. I am answering Jwlk.

Geabe. What were you thinking in your recent post?

It was way to long to quote, but go re-read what you said... You basically made a beneficial list of how-to-play certain roles.... ... FOR THE SCUM. In what world is this a good thing? Did you even think about it before you wrote it out? Vote: Geabe

Helping scum by telling them how to play certain roles is the opposite of what you should be doing.

I was going to say that I was answering questions in detail, with some thought, but guljons said it before me.

Hence I shall answer your questions directly.

First, I was thinking it would be better if everyone knew the exact nature of an implied threat if it should occur. The later part of this post will provide another reason, because I'd like to expound on that particular portion.

In what world is this a good thing? Simply because it predicts possible actions so the implications must be known as well.

And yes, I did think about it before I posted.

Now for the part I wanted to expound on. Jwlk, have you heard of the term "flipping the chessboard"? It's mainly a fancy term used when you look at the game from the opponent's side.

Consider everything I said in that long post (okay, it might be a little hard to do it all at once). If you flip the chessboard over, and think about it from the scum's perspective, it's actually quite apparent that the uses of such roles are quite clear and obvious from a scum's perspective.

You may misunderstand the intention because I had tried to cover most bases with those scenarios and uses and stuff. Which brings me to my other point: Barring a role combination which I have not yet spotted, or something I have missed, there is no effective counter against Town by the Witches in those scenarios.

You may ask what I am rambling on about. Think into it a little deeper. Doing the exact opposite (or an opposite, depending), will only be detrimental for the witches.

Of course the old argument of thinking three layers deep leads back to the original scenario, and the scenarios themselves are a hypothetical analytical scumtell.

Please do let me know if I have managed to miss anything.

PS: The issue of the time of reveal for the Pagans still stands.

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 10:54 AM

lynch geabe

Talk about people, not mechanics.

Geabe

03-29-2012, 11:12 AM

People? Alright.

Pretty sure by now that Kai is town.

What I do have are possible links between players.

Namely:
Gambit and Lutris
Klackerz and Moridin.

Personally I have no concrete evidence for either.

For scumtell, I will throw out a name which may surprise some. thebrute7.

As before, not a very convincing argument here. But in posts #82 and #89, the feel of that post came off to me as a scum!filler type of post. It's the kind where you're being obvious/beneficial-to-scum but it sounds as though you're not and you're actually contributing.

Which was what I aimed for in Warlock Hunt. To sway opinions and appear town. (didn't work out well in the end, though.)

I'm suspicious of Jwlk, though not to a large extent. I'm willing to hold on that, at least for now.

So lynch thebrute7

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 11:31 AM

Of course the old argument of thinking three layers deep leads back to the original scenario, and the scenarios themselves are a hypothetical analytical scumtell.

btw you might be interested in reading this (http://www.sirlin.net/articles/yomi-layer-3-knowing-the-mind-of-the-opponent.html) (assuming you haven't already)

Geabe

03-29-2012, 11:44 AM

Interesting read, Kai, I've personally never seen it presented that way before. Thank you for the link.

StrikerLee1

03-29-2012, 11:50 AM

I guess the real question comes down to do we really have solid proof to lynch someone? Or are we just voting someone for a free random kill. After reading up on everything it seems like everyone's just pointing fingers to people who have had suspicions in the past and those who have made posts that minimally indicate somewhat scum talk. At the end of the day though everyone will saying something that sounds like scum, I don't think that's a good basis for throwing someone under the bus. We still have time before this 1st day ends and very few votes out now on who to lynch, so it seems that there is the possibility of nobody being lynched unless everyone does a last minute bandwagon on a random person.

Seratin

03-29-2012, 12:07 PM

I guess the real question comes down to do we really have solid proof to lynch someone? Or are we just voting someone for a free random kill. After reading up on everything it seems like everyone's just pointing fingers to people who have had suspicions in the past and those who have made posts that minimally indicate somewhat scum talk. At the end of the day though everyone will saying something that sounds like scum, I don't think that's a good basis for throwing someone under the bus. We still have time before this 1st day ends and very few votes out now on who to lynch, so it seems that there is the possibility of nobody being lynched unless everyone does a last minute bandwagon on a random person.

Welcome to Mafia.

I'm not a fan of no lynches simply because there's a possibility of scum!judge. Putting that aside though, we have a mega long day that will help us form opinions and get better reads on people. That can only be a good thing.

Geabe derped with the explanation bit but that's forgivable. What really made me look twice at him was his willingness to throw thebrute7 under the bus. Personally, I found that post a little filler-ish too but nothing too scummy came off of it. Seems to me like Geabe tried to focus attention on Thebrute7 because he's a semi lurker who hasn't posted much so far and might not be around to defend himself as much as another member.

Deadline lynch: Geabe

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 12:17 PM

Small scumtells lead to more realized tells, but only if they are pressured by votes.

Hm, Lungs, tell me why I phrased the previous sentence the way I did.

In this game, the mechanics will not reward passive play. This may be a shocking departure for many here who are used to games like HoT2 where almost all of the heavy lifting was done by the game mechanics, rather than the people actually playing the game.

Hey Geabe, I have a problem with your post.

What I do have are possible links between players.

Namely:
Gambit and Lutris
Klackerz and Moridin.

Personally I have no concrete evidence for either.

Elaborate on these 'links'. What are they telling you?

Geabe

03-29-2012, 12:34 PM

Elaborate on these 'links'. What are they telling you?

Gambit and Lutris: This one's not helped by Gambit's tendency to make mistakes, even as town. Still, the link here suggests that the two may be connected in some fashion. Gambit, by his starting whiteknighting post, could be another whim, admittedly, but it does suggest Lutris' alignment is known if it wasn't just any whim.

Klackerz and Moridin: I found Moridin's defense of Klackerz a little...too outspoken, shall we say? Couple that with Klackerz continuation of Court campaigning back then, and it just ticks off my radar.

In my opinion I'm more concerned about the latter than the former.

Gambit's insistence of being town strikes my radar too. I'm not sure whether to file that under the File of Many Derps.

Bill Door

03-29-2012, 01:09 PM

Does anyone know what's up with Platypus_Assassin? It's been almost three days and he's a no show, although his profile says he was on DLP an hour ago. Also what's the status with a replacement for Republic21?

So far there's no one who is really jumping out to me as scum, but I am quite suspicious of Gambit. He's made quite a few posts but none of them have had any real substance to them, they all basically amount to "please don't kill me". He's done nothing yet to convince me that he's town, and what he has said has been very eccentric, so:

Lynch Vote Gambit

Sirion

03-29-2012, 01:38 PM

Yeah, but why would Geabe post something like that if he was scum? He could just tell them privately if he wanted.

Seems to me he was just responding to a question and giving a broader answer to it.

This seems true on the surface, but remember that there are two groups of scum... if you want to put one of the teams in a certain state of mind regarding methods of play, general mechanics advice is a subtle way to give them a hint of what you're doing.

Just because the thread is there for everyone to see doesn't mean they're talking to everybody.

Anyway, since it seems people refuse to believe me about Lungs right now, I'll leave off... but I'm watching you!

Hm, talking is nice.
Sure is. How do you think the court should go about deciding who to kill the first night? What kind of player, what bits of information to focus on?

Based on some hypothetical person being lynched.

thebrute7

03-29-2012, 03:47 PM

For scumtell, I will throw out a name which may surprise some. thebrute7.

As before, not a very convincing argument here. But in posts #82 and #89, the feel of that post came off to me as a scum!filler type of post. It's the kind where you're being obvious/beneficial-to-scum but it sounds as though you're not and you're actually contributing.

Which was what I aimed for in Warlock Hunt. To sway opinions and appear town. (didn't work out well in the end, though.)

So lynch thebrute7
So my discussing of a rather important game mechanic, and the possible effects of it on the town if certain roles are in the court makes me come across as scum because... it's a bit fillerish? Because all I did was discuss the mechanic?

I don't follow your logic there.

Azira

03-29-2012, 06:43 PM

I'm gonna need a replacement, shit is rough atm

Bill Door

03-29-2012, 07:03 PM

Ok, what the hell is going on, why is no one posting. There are 12 people who haven't posted in the last 24 hours. I get that people have rl things going on, but come on, do we really need to start looking at lynch voting lurkers just to get them to post? The first day is probably the most important in the entire game. Have we all just stopped campaigning for the court, and we still need a lynch for the day.

We only have about a day and a half left, and we're not much further than when we started. So come on people, who do you find suspicious? Who do you want to ask questions?

And now we need two replacements, possibly three, if Platypus_Assassin doesn't show up. Who is it that chooses the replacements in this game?

Koalas

03-29-2012, 07:08 PM

Well there's always a drop in the middle of the day, if no intense discussion is going on people tend to lose interest until about 12 hours before the deadline (from personal experience anyway).

The need for replacements is a concern though.

Chocolate do we have an alternative list?

And would anyone be adverse to pausing the deadline till the mod gets this figured out? Being three players down on the first day isn't acceptable.

coleam

03-29-2012, 08:48 PM

So my discussing of a rather important game mechanic, and the possible effects of it on the town if certain roles are in the court makes me come across as scum because... it's a bit fillerish? Because all I did was discuss the mechanic?

I don't follow your logic there.
Inclined to agree with thebrute here. I just read the posts that Gaebe referred to and they didn't seem particularly fillerish - just a bit long-winded in discussing the mechanics (and only the first one, at that). Not unlike what Gaebe is known for. And I feel that it was an important thing to discuss, both the probability of getting a witch on the Court (which is pretty high), and the consideration the King has to take with regards to picking anyone he thinks might be the Priest/Bishop/etc.

The combination of condemning a discussion method that he himself uses and dismissing what I see as useful information as filler is the closest thing to a scumtell I've seen yet.

Deadline Vote: Gaebe

And would anyone be adverse to pausing the deadline till the mod gets this figured out? Being three players down on the first day isn't acceptable.
No problems with it here, though as I said earlier, we'll have to speed things up once we get everyone replaced or I run the risk of running out of time before I have to be in the field for several weeks. It won't be a problem even with 48-hour days, but 108 hour days like we have going now would put us in May on day 5 or so.

Lungs

03-29-2012, 09:43 PM

Small scumtells lead to more realized tells, but only if they are pressured by votes.

Hm, Lungs, tell me why I phrased the previous sentence the way I did.

Who knows what goes through you hea

Okay, so I don't know what you mean by phrased the sentence the way you did, but I imagine that it has something to do with the fact that you referred to scum as "they", an obvious towntell?

I mean, at first, I thought it came from one of the mafia guides we have floating around, but I Ctrl+F'd and nothing. >_>

Oliver Kingston

03-29-2012, 09:49 PM

The idea of a connection between me and Lutris is silly, which is obvious, and Bill, I actually had at least one thing of substance to say, but you seem to have missed it, that's ok since I think you're a witch.

I'm a really fucking easy target for witches to build a bandwagon on, but then townies also suspect me. I'm part of the town, and I'm only saying "please don't kill me" so much because I hate dying in the early days of mafia, or at all.

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 09:50 PM

Disappoint lungs ._.

When you pressure someone over a slight slip, the reaction of a townie vs that of a witch are often different, so even though you start with a scumread, it could develop into a townread depending on how the person reacts to pressure.

coleam

03-29-2012, 10:03 PM

Oh, that should be Geabe, not Gaebe. Sorry dude.

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 10:21 PM

I just reread this one and

Gambit and Lutris: This one's not helped by Gambit's tendency to make mistakes, even as town. Still, the link here suggests that the two may be connected in some fashion. Gambit, by his starting whiteknighting post, could be another whim, admittedly, but it does suggest Lutris' alignment is known if it wasn't just any whim.

Klackerz and Moridin: I found Moridin's defense of Klackerz a little...too outspoken, shall we say? Couple that with Klackerz continuation of Court campaigning back then, and it just ticks off my radar.

In my opinion I'm more concerned about the latter than the former.

Gambit's insistence of being town strikes my radar too. I'm not sure whether to file that under the File of Many Derps.

'a link suggests they may be linked in some way'.

OH MY GOD lynch geabe harder

coleam

03-29-2012, 10:42 PM

'a link suggests they may be linked in some way'.

OH MY GOD lynch geabe harder

Ok, now that's just stupid and you know it.

Lungs

03-29-2012, 10:45 PM

Disappoint lungs ._.

When you pressure someone over a slight slip, the reaction of a townie vs that of a witch are often different, so even though you start with a scumread, it could develop into a townread depending on how the person reacts to pressure.

LOL I didn't think you were looking for a straight answer. Next time, just ask me to explain it, rather than LUNGS WILL KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS. D:

KaiDASH

03-29-2012, 10:48 PM

LOL I didn't think you were looking for a straight answer. Next time, just ask me to explain it, rather than LUNGS WILL KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS. D:

So what you're saying is... you do have a brick for a brain.

Yes, I did kind of hope to be able to setup that Brick Joke

:awesome

@colearm ?

Lungs

03-29-2012, 10:50 PM

;_;

/tenchars

CheddarTrek

03-29-2012, 11:42 PM

From what I have seen of Mafia, it is possible to twist almost anything anyone says into being. 'scummy.' It is easier to judge by actions, but we have not had tons of those yet... Though the people who voted to lynch presumably did not vote on fellow scum at least.

So it is hard to campaign for a council spot when just asking for one might get too much suspicion.

So I am just going to say again that I would be happy to take one to keep it out of scum hands, but if there are better candidates then... Get em! We have had some great players speak up.

coleam

03-30-2012, 12:58 AM

@colearm ?

Either you were being serious and actually using what was probably just a poorly proofread sentence as a reason to lynch or you were trying to be sarcastic for some unfathomable reason. Either way, it was pretty stupid.

Moridin

03-30-2012, 01:23 AM

Klackerz and Moridin: I found Moridin's defense of Klackerz a little...too outspoken, shall we say? Couple that with Klackerz continuation of Court campaigning back then, and it just ticks off my radar.

Err... to clarify, I do think Klackerz is quite likely scum. That or a bit too overeager for my comfort. Not sure how or where I defended him...

Koalas

03-30-2012, 01:46 AM

Err... to clarify, I do think Klackerz is quite likely scum. That or a bit too overeager for my comfort. Not sure how or where I defended him...

I actually just browsed through your posts and I honestly have no idea what he is talking about :/

Geabe: could you link us to whatever post you referencing?

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 03:23 AM

Judge can be scum. We don't want a day one no-lynch. That'd be bad.

I'm perfectly okay with Klackerz being dead dead dead.

I'm not getting 'that' strong of a scum vibe from Geabe, in all honesty, I think we're probably barking up wrong tree, and one of the people pushing us at him is scum.

Check Geabe tonight, Priest. Don't reveal like a retard based on only one guilty check, though. Not in a game this large - have at least two.

Or we can lynch Geabe if I'm just exhuasted and not really seeing it, whatever.

Point is, scum!judge kill is a bad thing, it guarantees an active, strong town dead.

Mishie

03-30-2012, 04:34 AM

Based on what I've seen so far this thread, in regards to Kai's questions:
Kaidash is coming off as town to me, mainly based on how he's played as town in other games, and even without meta, he has been acting very townish.
I would have Gaebe killed, based on how he's been acting so far this game.
I would have Castiel checked, he hasn't been posting much which is very different for him, and once again, he hasn't given any reasoning behind his answers to Kai's questions.
I would have either Lungs, Eid or Kai protected based on how they've been playing so far and because I know that they're all strong town players, and as such big targets for scum, although I would also have them checked later on, simply because having them as scum would be kinda bad.

jwlk

03-30-2012, 05:41 AM

1) First, I was thinking it would be better if everyone knew the exact nature of an implied threat if it should occur. The later part of this post will provide another reason, because I'd like to expound on that particular portion.

2)In what world is this a good thing? Simply because it predicts possible actions so the implications must be known as well.

3)think about it from the scum's perspective, it's actually quite apparent that the uses of such roles are quite clear and obvious from a scum's perspective.

4) there is no effective counter against Town by the Witches in those scenarios.

Please do let me know if I have managed to miss anything.

The numbers are mine. First off, I don't know how many mafia games you have played, but here is a pro-tip: NEVER give scum advice/tactics/anything that can possibly be helpful that isn't on the role card. Because that is being the most anti-town of anti-town.

1) That is why YOU are here. You are here to think about what is going on, and think of all the threats, but all of that is counter-productive if you post it. Keep your information for when it actually happens, AND THEN inform us.

2) Scum might not have even THOUGHT of these actions if it weren't for you. Its possible they could have, but then again... its possible they DIDN"T. Since that is a possibility, you pointing it out is DIRECTLY helping them out. No matter which way you look at it. It just doesn't help town.

3) What's apparent to you is not always apparent to others. Even if they knew everything in your post but say one thing, that one thing could help them win the game.

4) All the more reason not to bring them up. If scum want to use them, let them think of it themselves.

What I get from your post is that you're somehow trying to defend giving scum information that is not readily available. This is not right.

Someone else asked, why would he do this if he's scum? Well, its true if he's coven it doesn't make much sense. I'm thinking Junior Witch Geabe. Convince me i'm wrong, or pick someone else to get lynched with convincing arguments and points, etc.

guljons

03-30-2012, 07:48 AM

So what do we have? 3 people dropping out and 1 who hasn't posted yet. At this point we still have about a full 24h left to the day, so if the replacement players get their roles in timely fashion then we might not need an extension, but if that can't be done I am open for an extension so that everybody gets to know their role and really get into it.

I seem to remember that in past games there have been extensions when 1 player was replaced, but in this case it's 3, possibly 4, so if it can even be done in Mascone, it would be good.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 08:12 AM

we're not lynching, or even thinking about lynching the mia or replacing guys, so I'm fine with day ending at the expected time and extending night until replacements are found in order to keep the game progressing.

Oliver Kingston

03-30-2012, 08:33 AM

Lynch Vote: Geabe

I think whoever said something about the judge has a very good point, I'd rather see a lynch get going on a possible Junior Witch than have a scum judge kill me because I was ambiguous enough to make them look town.

Castiel

03-30-2012, 09:31 AM

I would have Castiel checked, he hasn't been posting much which is very different for him

I was expecting someone to notice this for a while now. Yes, I am posting less compared to how much I posted in earlier games, and that is because I was on my PC 24x7 in those days. Now I have other things to focus on but I check the game twice or thrice everyday and post whenever it is required.

Since we have one week long days I don't see it being a problem. But I will try to be more active if you want.

But regardless, go ahead and check me, I just wanted to clarify this.

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 09:52 AM

I would like to point out something I find interesting:

Sirion, post #27:

Sweet. Another game of WH!
Hello people I've never played with, hello people I've played with.

I'm Sirion, I've got like 6-7 games total and only one (currently still running) game of witchhunt.

I'm cramming for a test tomorrow, so I won't be very active tonight, but I will pick up after that.

And post #85:

So, I'd like to put myself up for Court. I'm an active player with solid reads, especially towards the later part of the game. I often spend a lot of time trying to figure out wtf is going on in games like this, and it'd be awesome to try to work thought out with the court subgroup.

It seems like we have plenty of new people, though some of us have played with each other in different places, so it'll be an exciting game. I'll bring knowledge of many of the people who've played on the GOD forums, if the court seems to be lacking that.

Re: Kai's request to lead a lynch...
I don't really know exactly how this works, but I guess he just wants us to pick someone and pressure them for a while day 1?

In that case, working on the general knowledge that Lungs is always scum, especially mod!lungs, Deadline Lynch: Lungs.

Defy the odds, Lungs! Tell me it ain't so!

Now, after only these two posts, KaiDASH (post #103) says he has a town-read on him, Moridin (#105) and Klackerz (#111 and 125) say they would put him in the court and jwlk mentions him as his protection-target in a hypotetical scenario (#154), although he says he would want to read more of him.

I honestly can't see the town-read (from the half-assed vote on Lungs? :confused:), but I could get behind picking him for the court for metagaming reasons (can't remember if Klackerz has ever played with him, but jwlk and Moridin have).

So, people involved, care to explain why you all reacted like you did to his two posts?

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 11:15 AM

I think the problem here is maybe you only have 3 modes (SCUM | NULL | TOWN) and you expect when someone says 'townread' they mean 'I think this person is the towniest town', when in reality there's a sliding scale of scummyness to townyness and a 'town' read 24 hours into day one is basically 'i think this guy is more likely to be town than a randomly selected player'.

So to answer your question, i looked at his post, felt vaguely happy about it and decided to run with that happy feeling.

Moridin

03-30-2012, 11:20 AM

So, people involved, care to explain why you all reacted like you did to his two posts?

I'll admit it was mostly metagaming reasons that made me pick him. In another game, he's been levelheaded, thoughtful and generally a strong player who is also quiet enough that he wouldn't be a huge target. I generally try to answer these kinds of questions by keeping in mind that whatever I do, scum are most likely to sneak in anyway, so I prefer to have a number of thoughtful, insightful players on court who could provide good reads on each other as well as the general memberlist, and Sirion has given me that impression thus far.

Klackerz

03-30-2012, 11:22 AM

Well when I posted that, it was early in the game. Most of the players seemed scummy and sirion was the one of the only player who read like a town to me at that instant.

Lungs

03-30-2012, 11:23 AM

Most definitely, because I honestly have 0 super town reads at the moment; the town Superfriends are generally unreadable at this point (Kai, etc) or lurking (fucking Fen D8).

So yeah, I'm like, counting scum/towntells. It's not the best use of my time/analysis etc, but like, it's better than anything else we can do at the moment, imo.

What worries me is that I don't see any of the towntells that I normally look for in his posts, which is terrible, because even scum should have a list of towntells depending on rolestuff, but I'm not going to talk about rolestuff in thread. Ever. I might think about it if it looks like we have ClearCourt, assuming I even get on D:

All said and done, Vote Geabe because those posts look doctor'd, albeit badly done so. >_>

To be more clear, the biggest townread on a casual glance turned into a huge scumread.

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 11:33 AM

I think the problem here is maybe you only have 3 modes (SCUM | NULL | TOWN) and you expect when someone says 'townread' they mean 'I think this person is the towniest town', when in reality there's a sliding scale of scummyness to townyness and a 'town' read 24 hours into day one is basically 'i think this guy is more likely to be town than a randomly selected player'.

^ Pointless stuff is pointless.

So to answer your question, i looked at his post, felt vaguely happy about it and decided to run with that happy feeling.

This was more what I was looking for.

As for Moridin's metagaming reasons, I completely agree with him. Sirion is a very good player and I wouldn't mind picking him for my court if I was King and he was town. I was just surprised by all the "approval" after his two posts, which, frankly, were just too empty to warrant it, IMO.

Lungs

03-30-2012, 11:56 AM

Sirion/Klackerz/Sesc/Moridin

That seems to be an uberpossible scumteam, because all of the posts between Klackerz and Moridin seem to point to the fact that "Sirion's metagmae is good" or "Town read on Sirion" or something. That's a bit weird, and I'm glad Stojil pointed it out (surprising what you can do with Ctrl+F these days).

Stojil seems a bit too bent on hitting them, but I'm getting strong town!Stojil from that because town!Stojil does things like that (Dresden1/2?)

Post #115 (Sesc) is a scumtell when he talks about Klackerz. The casual offmention that allows him to bus him at some point in the lategame (I knew that guy was scum! He wasn't posting because he was prepping!) He's aggro'ing on Eido, who's playing town!Eido atm - this is like, strong town!Eido, but Eido's probably smart enough to change his meta. He expresses some weirdshit ideas about why Witches wouldn't want to gank Court, which is weirdshit. There's nothing better for Witches than to gank Court, because that's a freelunch for town if they live long enough >_>

Also, town!sesc is more aggro than #119, imo >_> but that's a metaread and I'm not going to say a WORD about roles. Roles. heh. that's a word :3

Klackerz wants to divert sesc!check, because Kai and Eido are play town hard aggro and that's bad for scum. #125

@Kai: Where does your townread on Sesc come from?

Unvote

Vote: Klackerz

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 12:06 PM

I have a town-read on Sesc too so I wouldn't put him in that team. Kai fits it better, IMO. But it's still too early for that. However, it's not early for a nice:

Deadline Lynch Vote: Klackerz

I can get behind Geabe too, but I would rather go for him for all that's been said and the unsatisfying answer he gave me.

Lungs

03-30-2012, 12:13 PM

Actually, everyone, not just Kai

Why do you have a town!read on Sesc? I really want to know!

He seems to be playing really differently, and my metagut says that he isn't town.

In the world in which Geabe is a junior witch, so is Lutris, because easy castoff Ollie is easy castoff.

I hate this gutread thing in Geabe's post, in which he's like "Ollie/Lutris" and "Moridin/Klackerz" -> he wouldn't know whether the second is true if he's jw because jws don't know witches so that might be legit scumhunting (i'm pretty certain that the actual scumhunting is where the townreads on him that I had come from)

But there's definitely a world of a scumstrat to get Ollie bus'd.

Of course, they might be playing a... *punglasses* Gambit, and actually bussing him, but that world is less likely because while Ollie doesn't play conservatively, I'm sure that Lutris does.

Point is, if Geabe, then probably Geabe/Lutris/twoothers.

But I'm super unsure about that because town!Lutris seems to be town!Lutris.

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 12:18 PM

Lots of reasons for Sesc being a town-read for me: he's derped about the Court and it looks like a town-derp to me. He lingered a lot on the fact people were playing without knowing their roles and that's so scummy that smart!scum would never do it (and he's smartish ;)). The "impossible to have suspicions already" argument smells like town too, IMO.

The idea of a connection between me and Lutris is silly, which is obvious, and Bill, I actually had at least one thing of substance to say, but you seem to have missed it, that's ok since I think you're a witch.

I'm a really fucking easy target for witches to build a bandwagon on, but then townies also suspect me. I'm part of the town, and I'm only saying "please don't kill me" so much because I hate dying in the early days of mafia, or at all.

I voted for you thinking that you'd come out and defend yourself with something that would give me more of a read on you, because the way you're posting I can't tell whether it's just eccentric or scummy. But you just came out with "No, You're a witch", not exactly the best defence I've ever seen. And then you just leaped on the nearest bandwagon.

You say that you're an easy target but you really do seem very suspicious. Instead of just moaning that you die early in every game maybe you should, I don't know, not seem so damn scummy.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so for now Rescind Lynch Vote Gambit.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 12:31 PM

I had a townread at that time lungs, just like you, but it's since mellowed out into a null read on Sesc.

Lungs, go back and read Geabe's expansion on the 'links' thing. I was very unhappy with it (and not just the part I quoted in a later post), and I think you should be too (actually maybe you're already unhappy with it, but I think you should be even more unhappier)

I'm actually rather unhappy with how Geabe's wagon has developed and I think there's shenanigans there, however (scum related) shenanigans doesn't necessarily mean Geabe is town. I'll have to think more on this.

I think Lungs' theory of olliek being bussed day 1 with a grand total of 1 lynch vote on him is very nearly the stupidest thing I've heard all day.

This seems true on the surface, but remember that there are two groups of scum... if you want to put one of the teams in a certain state of mind regarding methods of play, general mechanics advice is a subtle way to give them a hint of what you're doing.

Just because the thread is there for everyone to see doesn't mean they're talking to everybody.

Were you "giving a hint" to the juniors and the spies, here?

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 12:56 PM

I don't really like Sesc, Sirion, or Klackerz at this point. I'm a little more okay with Geabe than most people seem to be, though - I'm seeing it more as trying to fully explain something and not considering how it would come across. I'd be more comfortable with delaying it until tomorrow and thoroughly interrogating him (Geabe).

I'm pretty okay with most people not in the Sesc/Sirion/Klackerz grouping, though admittedly mostly null reads.

Either way, we 'do' only have ~20 hours remaining, and we simply can't afford a possible scum!judge kill on day one. Someone dropped a hint the size of Lungs' mother earlier, and having them die would be... bad.

Vote, folks. And check me tonight, if you're suspicious about me prodding for people to join bandwagons. I'd rather they join the Klackerz wagon, in all honesty, I'm just very uncomfortable about some of that Geabe push.

And coleam voting Geabe and proceeding to lightly defend (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551038&postcount=180) him is a Thing.

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 01:19 PM

KaiDASH, I'm going to lightly defend coleam, who lightly defended Geabe, who(m?) I lightly defended earlier. Make of it what you will.

I still don't get what exactly you were saying with that quote. Maybe you should simply clarify, instead of sherpaing Lungs towards it.

You two guys are hilarious.

Kai-DASH: "Come on, son, tell me what you see. I know you can do it."

Lungs: "Well, for startes..."

KaiDASH: "No! Come on! What are you doing?!"

Lungs: "Ahhhhh! Pop, I'm sorry! Stop yelling at me!"

KaiDASH: "Ah... no, I'm not angry. I'm just disappoint, son."

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 01:23 PM

It is indeed. Man... while highly informative, this is just screaming bad.

Really not liking StrikerLee right now. Stealth votes everywhere.

This is all just what.

I think I only like two people in this game right now. Maybe three if push came to shove. And no, Geabe isn't one of them, I just don't think his day one lynch is a good idea compared to the alternative.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 01:24 PM

I did explain (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551032&postcount=177)it, did you miss it?

Also coleam defending geabe wouldn't be an issue if coleam wasn't voting to lynch geabe.

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 01:26 PM

I was talking about posts #179 and 180.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 01:38 PM

So I ask geabe to give me words on the 'links'.

Gambit and Lutris: This one's not helped by Gambit's tendency to make mistakes, even as town. Still, the link here suggests that the two may be connected in some fashion. Gambit, by his starting whiteknighting post, could be another whim, admittedly, but it does suggest Lutris' alignment is known if it wasn't just any whim.

Klackerz and Moridin: I found Moridin's defense of Klackerz a little...too outspoken, shall we say? Couple that with Klackerz continuation of Court campaigning back then, and it just ticks off my radar.

In my opinion I'm more concerned about the latter than the former.

I got words that said a fat load of nothing.

Olliek/lutris
Sentence 1: OllieK does derps. (thanks, we didn't know this!)
Sentence 2: A link here suggests a connection (wow, how rephrasing)
Sentence 3: It could be a random whim but if it isn't then maybe he knows what lutris is (i'll add that this was commentary on olliek's first post)

klackerz/moridin:
sentence 1: I found this thing that never actually happened to be outspoken. (???????????????)

In other news I've decided that I actually don't like you Stojil, because for all the rereading you've apparently been doing you missed this?

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 01:40 PM

Three words for you.

'a link suggests they may be linked in some way'.

OH MY GOD lynch geabe harder

This. Is. Silly.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 01:41 PM

I'm sorry I didn't realize you needed to be fed opinions.

Uncle Stojil

03-30-2012, 01:41 PM

To clarify (because apparently I manage to be unclear with three words too), that post was silly. Your last one (215) is not.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 01:44 PM

I'm gonna stick with the sentiment expressed in 217 here.

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 01:58 PM

And, just to clarify.

If you vote on the moscone client, please also state that vote in the thread.

Doing otherwise just looks very, very, very scummy. Easy way to slip votes into a train without really having record of it until someone points it out.

Moscone votes are the only ones that actually 'count', yes, but this thread is where you need to be posting to have things on record for people to form opinions on you from.

StrikerLee1

03-30-2012, 02:35 PM

Well the reason behind my vote is the somewhat scummy intents behind his posts. I would be surprised if people wernt suspicious of me, this is day 1 in a game where none of us really know whats going to happen. At this point anyone can be scum so I treat all till I know for sure. I can't post a lot atm due to finishing college finals but next week I'll be on here full time for this. I do however read everything and see a lot of scumatude coming from many but the most obvious from Gaebe with his ramble.

Deadline Lynch Vote: Gaebe

Moridin

03-30-2012, 02:44 PM

Vote Lynch: Geabe

(Because I'm not sure if the Moscone client can differentiate between standard and deadline)

Geabe still hasn't provided an adequate explanation for the 'links' he talked about, and overall has seemed a bit too... smooth, if that makes any sense. Careful. He was comfortable enough discussing mechanics, but when the discussion turned to people, he started with a lot of 'possible's and 'not sure's, especially in the post (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=550938#post550938) where he first mentions the links.

Lungs

03-30-2012, 02:53 PM

Guys we are bandwagonning Geabe when none of the scumteam I have accused have nakked. This is not goodthing.jpg moridin defend yourself.

Moridin

03-30-2012, 03:13 PM

Firstly, nakked? Wtf, man, your posts are steadily becoming more and more indecipherable... and I'm not sure whether that's good or bad D:
I bet figuring out that story of yours twisted your brain around something awful.

As for defending myself... I already pointed out why I chose Sirion. Am I suggesting that Sirion is a good player? Yes. Am I saying I have an uber town read on him? No. I picked KaiDASH and Jwlk as well, and considered Sesc. I would feel entirely confident in claiming that they are competent players, but that doesn't mean I think they are town.

Imo, this (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551163&postcount=197) post adequately explains why I picked Sirion despite not having a super town read on him (I should clarify that I don't have strong town reads on all that many players, and had even fewer when I made the post).

coleam

03-30-2012, 03:19 PM

I did explain (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551032&postcount=177)it, did you miss it?

Also coleam defending geabe wouldn't be an issue if coleam wasn't voting to lynch geabe.
I wasn't defending him. I was attacking your silly reasoning for calling him scum (still not sure if that was a serious post or not, btw). It's a subtle difference.

Think of it this way: a guy is walking towards the two of us with a knife dripping blood. I say, "Oh my god, look at his knife, he's a murderer!" You say, "Oh my god, he has mismatched socks, he's a murderer!" I then proceed to run swiftly away whilst calling you an idiot.

Perhaps the contrast between our reasoning isn't that large, but you get the picture. I still think Geabe is scum. I just don't think that the fact that he said, "They're linked so there must be a connection." has anything to do with it.

Moridin

03-30-2012, 03:28 PM

Yeah... I got the impression a) it wasn't an entirely serious post on KaiDASH's part b ) The whole 'link implies a connection' thing actually sounds pretty good until you realise what it says, which basically makes it filler for someone who wants to point fingers without saying anything concrete.

coleam

03-30-2012, 03:30 PM

Ok, Kai, I read through your last few posts again and I think I get where you were going with the "They're linked so there must be a connection." thing. I still think it was silly though.

The whole 'link implies a connection' thing actually sounds pretty good until you realise what it says, which basically makes it filler for someone who wants to point fingers without saying anything concrete.
Oh, I got that much. I just saw it more as bad proofreading on Geabe's part.

Platypus_Assassin

03-30-2012, 03:37 PM

Okay, before anyone takes me out of the game, I am still participating, I have just been very busy IRL. Still 17 hours til voting time so I'll be taking a good hard look at all these posts. I can see this being much harder to get a read on people over the internet, so much easier in person. At least no one voted me out while I was gone... Side note, first time playing a mafia-esque game like this over the internet.

Sesc

03-30-2012, 03:53 PM

So, back from Uni and stuff, sorry for my absence. Anyway, I can get behind a Gaebe Lynch. What stood out to my, when I went through the thread and noted who pointed the finger at whom, was that everyone had a few things to say, whereas Gaebe had a lot to say. Here's the summary:

Gaebe wants on the KC Eidolonic, Kai, Fenraellis and me. He thinks Eidolonic is Town. He wants to kill Ollie or klackerz. He thinks Kai is Town. He thinks thebrute7 is a witch. He thinks Ollie and Lutris, and klackerz and Moridin are linked (share qts?).

Do you have the game all figured out, Gaebe? o_o

Looks to my like he's either overcompensating for something, or just enormously overeager. Also, @Lungs: Do keep in mind that I have never played with Eidolonic, so no meta. He's more hyper than the fucking Duracell bunny after a new battery. That stands out. So I called him on it. And yeah, more aggro is cool, but I need to have a target. Kai didn't strike me as a good target, and what's more, he was right and I derped so eh. I'm actually lacking a target so far generally. Roles =/= Team is harder than I thought it'd be.

Chocolate Pi

03-30-2012, 04:08 PM

Republic21 has been replaced by LochNess.

Additional replacements may be inbound.

Seratin

03-30-2012, 04:10 PM

Ok first off. In post 120 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550709&postcount=120) I repeatedly said I have a slight town read on Mishie. That's gone down the drain at the minute for reason's i'll explain in a bit.

In post 157 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550918&postcount=157) I said I thought Kai might be trustworthy which at the time, I believed. I also said that I was no way sure of that.

In post 160 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550935&postcount=160) he threw down a lynch vote on Geabe. At that time I was still leaning towards Kai as town and I've always said that a no lynch is bad. Put that along with geabe's willingness to throw Thebrute7 under a bus right after he'd been targeted and I put out a deadline lynch vote.

Post 166 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=550947&postcount=166) He demanded more of an explanation of Geabe. That's fair enough, a decent thing for any town member to do. Also put more pressure on someone who clearly isn't the brightest of posters. Possible he was hoping to force a derp so the BW would pile on or he could have just been playing straight town.

Post 179 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551037&postcount=179) set the alarm bells ringing. At this stage he really wants to get the lynch train rolling and while Geabe's post ws full of derp and said something while saying nothing, I'm starting to believe the guy is actually a massive derp who's finding his feet in mafia. Doesn't mean he's innocent of course.

Post 182 a few after that was a filler post to make a joke. Not suspicious but I wanted to point out that it was a bad joke. BE ASHAMED, KAI.

Post 189 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551084&postcount=189) shows Mishie stating he has a town read on Kai. Fair enough but at that stage I'm wondering why is nobody suspecting the guy at all. My first game of mafia I was scumbuddies with mishie. He played off situations by making short infrequent posts hoping to slightly nudge town to or away from a character while not giving away much about himself.

Post 192 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551120&postcount=192) turned the alarm bells into sirens. The town can ALWAYS use more day and just because we weren't thinking of lynching an inactive doesn't mean we couldn't use the time to make sure Geabe is scum. What's really amazing though, is that nobody picks up on this. :facepalm

Post 196 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551162&postcount=196) is defending his gut feeling on Sirion so there's nothing too wrong there. Hell, running with a good feeling is what made me think Kai was town in the first place.

Post 207 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551193&postcount=207) he sees that people are starting to question the wagon on Geabe and says he's "unhappy with how it's developing." Might I remind you that this is the guy who said, "LYNCH GEABE HARDER."

In post 210 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551205&postcount=210) he lists the people who voted for Geabe (including myself) and says he's not happy with them. Some of the more vocal supporters of Kai might note that I make this post after he posted that. My suspicions were forming well before I saw that post so this isn't retaliation.

He points at Coleam in this post. Between this and what he said in the previous post about "having to think on it" I'm getting the feeling that he's runnig down the clock to a no lynch or a vote on Geabe.

After that he and Stojil start bitching at each other which isn't really relative.

In conclusion, I'm very suspect of Kai and am baffled at how few of you have seen his behaviour.

@Kai. Dude. If you are actually town then I apologize for derailing proceedings but at the minute I honestly believe you are scum. I have a feeling mishie is in on it too but I have no proof and to be honest, that feeling is a lot lot weaker than the one I have on you.

About Geabe. I believe he's either a ridiculously derp town member or a ridiculously derp Junior Witch. My reasoning for this is that if here were in fact scum his buddies would have fed him decent stuff to reply with rather than drivel.

Rescind vote: Geabe.

Deadline lynch vote: Kaidash

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 04:10 PM

Also, @Lungs: Do keep in mind that I have never played with Eidolonic, so no meta. He's more hyper than the fucking Duracell bunny after a new battery. That stands out. So I called him on it. And yeah, more aggro is cool, but I need to have a target.

This is actually sort of entertaining, considering I'm more reserved in this game than maybe I ever have been.

LochNess

03-30-2012, 04:23 PM

Hi guys, replacing Republic21. Gotta catch up on this thread but just wanted to let you know I'm the replacement

Chocolate Pi

03-30-2012, 04:36 PM

Loch, let me know if you have any issues.

All log references or role targets should now refer to LochNess, but your Notes may still include "Republic21"--those Notes are 100% your business and not the game's.

Also, "deadline votes" got mentioned. As a mechanical game concept, deadline votes aren't a thing that actually exists. (If deadlines votes do exist, there is quite literally no reason to ever not deadline vote; in other words there is no reason to ever normal vote.)

If you want to use "deadline voting" as a social, conventional shorthand ("This isn't a very strong vote; I only prefer it over nothing." or "I don't want discussion to end, but am tentatively parking my vote anyway.") that is of course totally fine.

In the broader picture we could of course consider remove hammering. (which is the strictly equivalent implication of adding deadline lynch votes to the game) That's an interesting idea to discuss later.

As always, in the event of a situation where you feel your schedule or computer access prohibits you from taking any action (voting or otherwise) you'd like to do when you'd like to do it, contact me and we can work something out.

coleam

03-30-2012, 04:43 PM

So Kai's last few posts had gotten me a little suspicious, but unfortunately (or fortunately? IDK...), before I could get anything coherent typed up, Seratin went and made up this giant-ass post that said a lot of what I was thinking. I've addressed a few of his points and added a few more of my own.

Post 179 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551037&postcount=179) set the alarm bells ringing. At this stage he really wants to get the lynch train rolling and while Geabe's post ws full of derp and said something while saying nothing, I'm starting to believe the guy is actually a massive derp who's finding his feet in mafia. Doesn't mean he's innocent of course.
It should probably be noted that Geabe has played several mafia games and he's generally been a pretty astute observer, though with a tendency for long-windedness. I can't recall any instances of major derp in his previous games, though he has occasionally given advice on how scum should play their roles, even as a town player. So his role analysis was pretty spot-on for him, but his player reads seem really odd. That's what made me suspicious as well.

Kai's post is iffy for me as well - hence why I called him out on it for being stupid. It's either sarcasm (which I'm beginning to doubt) or a clumsy attempt at something. He could be trying to push the bandwagon or draw out a response from Geabe. Pushing the bandwagon doesn't seem with his later posts, but that's an uncharacteristically poor attempt at eliciting a response. I really don't know what to think about it.

Post 192 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551120&postcount=192) turned the alarm bells into sirens. The town can ALWAYS use more day and just because we weren't thinking of lynching an inactive doesn't mean we couldn't use the time to make sure Geabe is scum. What's really amazing though, is that nobody picks up on this. :facepalm
Eh. I can see both sides. On the one hand, we have a really long day already - why extend it further if the 3 or so people that are being replaced don't really figure into it? On the other hand, you're right, more time is always good.

Post 207 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551193&postcount=207) he sees that people are starting to question the wagon on Geabe and says he's "unhappy with how it's developing." Might I remind you that this is the guy who said, "LYNCH GEABE HARDER."
Definitely set off some alarm bells for me as well, though I'm more curious about WHY Kai is concerned about how it's developing - he never really says why, apart from the next post where he lists off the last few people to vote.

In post 210 (https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showpost.php?p=551205&postcount=210) he lists the people who voted for Geabe (including myself) and says he's not happy with them. Some of the more vocal supporters of Kai might note that I make this post after he posted that. My suspicions were forming well before I saw that post so this isn't retaliation.

He points at Coleam in this post. Between this and what he said in the previous post about "having to think on it" I'm getting the feeling that he's runnig down the clock to a no lynch or a vote on Geabe.
Again, I think an explanation from Kai on WHY he doesn't like those particular votes would be nice. StrikerLee was obvious (stealthvoting), and the reason for suspecting me was valid, if weak, but the rest are left unexplained.

Ash

03-30-2012, 05:31 PM

Been keeping up with the thread, though rarely posting. Still on vacation, I'm so bad at delaying my departure. Anyway, there's a whole lot of random fuckery and TL;DRs.

I'm too cool for that, but there are a few things that I've noticed.

Why the fuck are we voting for Geabe and Klackerz? The wagons on them seem equally suspicious. That said, Seratin voted for KaiDASH.

I think Seratin is an enthusiastic town member, and he's one of the few strong reads I've had. I'm going to vote to lynch Kai. I know I always think he's scum, but well....I still think he is scummy.

That said, I think StrikerLee is also somewhat suspicious.

Vote Lynch Player: KaiDASH

LochNess

03-30-2012, 05:39 PM

Looks like I won't have access to a computer until Sunday morning, so I can't post till then (no smart phone/ ipod touch or anything.) I will be an active member as of then, hope that's okay since the days are long anyways but yeah sorry about that.

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 06:23 PM

Don't really like this Kai wagon. Just feels off. I have a decent town read on him, he's just aggressively trying to pressure.

Geabe's read is more null than anything. Junior Witch is possible, but don't think he's coven.

Seratin/Ash... I'm not sure I like that. Reads of carefully crafted scum lynch train start and hop on. Sort of a stupid move to make on day one for scum, but still possible.

All in all, I think there's some good check targets, but I'm still very much okay with killing Klackerz. I don't see a Kai lynch happening before deadline, and suspect you guys are either intentionally trying to force a no lynch or just slightly misguided.

Seratin

03-30-2012, 06:30 PM

All in all, I think there's some good check targets, but I'm still very much okay with killing Klackerz. I don't see a Kai lynch happening before deadline, and suspect you guys are either intentionally trying to force a no lynch or just slightly misguided.

A no lynch would be all around bad and I pointed out Kai's waffling over Geabe after starting the bandwagon as potentially him trying to force a no lynch. So far you and Kai have been the loudest town members. I believe you're loud and town while Kai is loud and scum.

I have no proof, this is mafia after all. What I do have are my reasons which are all explained above. Also, two votes isn't a bandwagon, Eido.

But yeah, I'm cool with a check though I think Kai would be a more obvious target.

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 06:38 PM

I'd actually like a Geabe check, and then a Kai check. Geabe seems to be an analytical sort, and I've liked his post quality and reasoning in some other games. I honestly think he just derped and didn't consider how the post would read to others, rather than actually being scummy. I don't have a good feeling about the people that piled on to vote for him as a whole, and it just makes me uneasy.

Klackerz's 'oh put me on the court whoops, I don't even know my role yet, lolol' gambit strikes me as a perfectly fine day one lynch, in that he's relatively safe. We aren't going to lose much of value if he 'is' killed, in terms of his posting, that I've seen. I've played one game with him (that he replaced into, admittedly), and read through a few others, and all I see is a lot of lurking, and very little helpful town behavior.

Considering we need a lynch to prevent judge shenanigans, and he's the safest target that I have a vaguely scummy vibe on, I'm going to push for that.

coleam

03-30-2012, 06:42 PM

Why the fuck are we voting for Geabe and Klackerz? The wagons on them seem equally suspicious. That said, Seratin voted for KaiDASH.

I'm not convinced that klackerz is scum, but Geabe is coming across as mighty suspicious. As I said when I first voted for him, his reasons for throwing thebrute7 under the bus were flimsy at best, especially considering that he himself is often guilty of doing the same things, even as town. Then he made that strangely incoherent post about connections between Ollie/Lutris and klackerz/Moridin, which didn't help change my mind. And he hasn't posted since.

Eidolonic: That's precisely why I didn't change my vote. I think that changing targets this late is tempting a no-lynch. However, I can't ignore the fact that Kai has been acting suspicious for the last few posts. Maybe I should have saved commenting on Seratin's post for the next day, but what's done is done...

Bill Door

03-30-2012, 09:10 PM

I don't think that I'm able to get behind any of these lynches, at the moment I can't see anything other than a no lynch, as much as I don't want that.

I honestly don't think that Geabe is scum. The way I see it is he overanalyzed everything, and then just kept digging himself into a bigger hole by trying to divert the attention with a bit of a half assed post. I think he just kind of panicked rather than he was scum.

As for klackerz he did something stupid right at the very start, but his posts since then have seemed pretty town to me.

As for KaiDASH I'm not sure what's going on. Half the time he seems to be playing in his own little private game with Lungs and Uncle Stojil, and the other half he seems to be the most active player for town. So I really don't think he's scum, unless he and Lungs are secretly communicating with each other in those weird conversations they are having.
/conspiracy theory

So I'll see how things lie in the morning and hopefully things will have changed.

Sirion

03-30-2012, 09:24 PM

I'm not really sure how to respond to Uncle_Stojil, except that.. hey, I had 3 posts? You missed the one where I was talking about Geabe's possible motivations for discussing scum!tactics.

Re: lynches.

Currently it seems to be between Geabe, Klackerz, and recently Kai.

Geabe: Geabe said some derpy shit, talked about possibly useful scum strategies, and maybe typed an off-hand response which ended up being circular and not saying much. These are not good signs. However, he's an apparently useful player. A few people have bandwagoned on him pretty early, and it should be noted (since from catching up it seems people forgot) that it was actually jwlk who brought initial suspicion on Geabe.
Kai-dash just picked up the pressure and ran with it.

In my eyes, he's a possible scum. Slightly more likely than average. If it came down to him, or letting the judge decide, I'd go with him at this second.

Klackerz: Klackerz did a _very_ derpy thing for a first post. He posted a light read on me as town, then pretty much said and did nothing as the Geabe bandwagon picked up steam. I think this is a little telling, honestly. He had attracted some initial attention, and before he could respond, focus on Geabe picked up to the point where he was mostly unpressured - people kept mentioning him, but noone really built up votes on him.

I'd rather lynch Klackerz than Geabe.

Kai-dash: He aggressively pressured Geabe, brought the first couple of votes on him, and went "WTF?" when Geabe kept doing derpy shit. He realized people weren't pressuring ANYONE ELSE, and pretty much said that, and now you're calling it waffling and scummy?

It's day 1. You don't need to be THAT focused on one person. It's way better to spread out pressure, and try to find a weak link. Who's calling out Klackerz for more information? Who's pressuring Mishie, or Lutris, or Lungs? Lungs is always scum!

I'm way more inclined to call Kai town than a scum with a heavy hand.

We do, however, have only 12 hours of mostly-people-sleeping time to get a lynch in, and we do not want to give possible scum!judge free reign to take shots at goldies.
In the interest of pressure, I'm going to Unlynch Lungs and Lynch: Klackerz.

He's lightly townread me, defended that townread weakly, but said very little of actual content and been happy to sit in the back while Geabe's bandwagon grew. There are townier things to do. And that first day derp, come on.

KaiDASH

03-30-2012, 10:57 PM

Night 1 extension over day 1 extension because court is getting formed tonight and giving them more time is a good thing.

Anyway on Geabe, he's a very calculating guy that knows what he is saying. It's no mistake that he said nothing when pushed.

I think Seratin is an enthusiastic town member, and he's one of the few strong reads I've had. I'm going to vote to lynch Kai. I know I always think he's scum, but well....I still think he is scummy.
Also cute, Ashaya cashing in on her 'kai is always scummy' meta to do nothing for today.

For lynch vs no lynch, instead of considering it like 'WELL DO I WANT TO KILL GEABE/KLACKERZ OR NOBODY?' consider it as 'WELL DO I WANT TO KILL GEABE/KLACKERZ OR EIDOLONIC?'. Because scumjudge is a very real possibility and not accounting for it would be silly.

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 10:58 PM

I don't like anything about this day one.

Inactivity, derps, and some questionable bandwagons.

Very few town reads.

Scum!Judge is bad, guys. Like, really bad.

Taking a look at the only two remotely possible lynch options:

Geabe:
Jwlk
Coleam
StrikerLee
Ollie
Moridin
Kai

Klackerz:
Eidolonic
Stoljili
Lungs
Sirion
Bob99

Minus bob99, who I wouldn't entirely be opposed to pressuring if this day were longer, I like all the people on the Klackerz lynch.

The Geabe train, ehhhh. Jwlk seems townish to me, and Kai is at least playing like +Town, whatever his true alliances are. But not really liking much of the rest at the moment.

And yeah, I really don't like anything to do with that Kai lynch push.

There's 16 people that haven't voted. Even with 4 replacements, that's 12 people that are supposedly playing that haven't voted.

What part of scum!judge is a bad thing are we not quite grasping? Even town!judge relies on the whims of a single person, and sometimes people do stupid things.

I still support a Klackerz lynch. If the only way we can get a lynch is on Geabe, I'll move my support over, but I can't help but think it smells vaguely scummy - and I'm talking about the people voting for him, not the player itself.

Sesc

03-30-2012, 11:13 PM

Interesting that you would pick Eidolonic as the token Townsperson, Kai. Then again, as I said, no meta for me. The point (Gaebe/klackerz or town) still stands though.

As far as deciding between Gaebe and klackerz goes, I like his posts more than Gaebe's. So I think I'm gonna put that vote there now (Vote: Gaebe, if you need it spelled out).

Addendum after I just read the post: Is it just me, or does it look like Eidolonic and Kaidash are playing ping-pong with each other here? http://www.cvreefers.org/images/smilies/dazed024.gif

/goes off to read all their posts once more

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 11:17 PM

Any connection is frustrated town and (probable) frustrated town trying to herd cats into doing something useful.

Why do people sign up if they aren't going to actually play?

Seratin

03-30-2012, 11:23 PM

It sounds as if you're saying, "Play my way because it's the only way and the right way."

Which is a great way to get people to think you're town if they buy into it. Unfortunately, I don't buy into it at all.

Eidolonic

03-30-2012, 11:25 PM

Er... or I'm saying that inactivity sucks? A lack of posts and votes kills the game, both in terms of mechanics and fun.

Geabe

03-30-2012, 11:32 PM

Unvote thebrute7

Don't hype on me being 'suspiciously unvoting'. I welcome a priest check at any time. I know several people want me checked, and that is fine with me.

NOT going into thebrute7 for the moment, because I'd like to focus on Moridin and Klackerz.

Now, here's a summary of what happened.

#43: Klackerz claims a small town role while not knowing what the heck his own role is.
#57: Moridin proceeds to give him the benefit of the doubt (which is normal, because others did, too. Including me.) and then proceeds to attack him on the stupidity of doing such a claim.
#108: Moridin states killing Ashaya as 'pre-emptive'.
#125: Klackerz mentions Sirion, Sesc, Moridin as townreads.
#149: Moridin. Mainly an expounding on #57 based on Klackerz reply to...bob99 if I'm not mistaken.
#186: Moridin again says he believes Klackerz is scum.

Before anyone says my statement of "I found Moridin's defense of Klackerz a bit outspoken" as a contradiction, hear me out on my four cases below.

Also, Lungs, this is the reason why I don't believe all four of your suggested scumteam is actually scum. In what world would a scum!Klackerz list all his other teammates as townreads?

...In a world where he could get away with it, admittedly. Or another derp. Highly unlikely, in my opinion.

Okay Moridin. You'll have to explain this one to us.
Why would you go for "killing Ashaya as a 'pre-emptive strike'", when you explicitly expressed you suspect Klackerz as scum? It doesn't make much sense to do, especially when I don't recall any post of yours hinting that Klackerz is scum. Except for #149, which could be taken as a weak link, and even then, why not pressure for a possible larger scumtell?

Now I'll discuss the Moridin-Klackerz defense.

Case 1: Moridin and Klackerz are both innocent. In this scenario, Klackerz must have some sort of scumtell. And yes, he has, by way of suspicious court campaign. However, here we have a contradiction because of Moridin's actions.

Case 2: Moridin is scum, Klackerz is innocent. Now, in this case, Moridin's attack on Klackerz's derp could be intepreted as an attack on town!Klackerz. Moridin's actions are a further scumtell in this scenario.

Case 3: Moridin is innocent, Klackerz is scum. Going on this, then Klackerz post #125 should be a case of disguising innocent tells. (That's to say, Klackerz + x + (maybe) y) is scum, which casts doubt on Sirion and Sesc. However, in this case, Moridin's actions doesn't make sense!

Case 4: Moridin and Klackerz is both scum. Then, in this case, Moridin's attacks on Klackerz's first post derp is actually a defense to sell Klackerz as town. Go back and read. The first reaction looked natural, I will admit. The second (expounding on the first), is what caught my eye. He mentions mainly the stupidity of that first post. Which is normal, except that there is no reason for him to keep selling his point, when he has actual suspicions. Thus I have to conclude that both are scum and the logic in this scenario stands. Furthermore, unwillingness to kill Klackerz? Really?

All said and done, the logical scenarios are Case 2 and Case 4. However, Case 2 has loads of gaping holes, while Case 4 is looking rather solid to me. I could attack my own Case 2 by saying: So why didn't Moridin press the point about Klackerz if he was such a lovely sitting duck?