User talk:Maxime

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Apologies for the recent block caused by the edit monitoring system that monitors new users for vandalism, but may on occasion block valid users by mistake. You have now been unblocked. If this block should occur again, please wait for an unblock or contact wikiislamexmna.org.

On another note, looking at the formatting of the quote box, looks like you're doing stuff manually. You can start with a copy paste of the original article. If you acknowledge this message I'll give you further directions. -- Axius(talk | contribs) 15:44, 24 December 2014 (PST)

Hi, thank you for the unlock (it's because I have edited the same small little section of the text too many times, I think that the system considered it as a spam, it's would be very good if you can protect me against the monitoring system because I will write a lot on my page).

For respond to you, I prefer really do it manually because I'm little confused when there is too much code.

Could you reply here so it stays on the same page. Also please use the sign button to sign off comments. Later on when you are a trusted editor I can make it so you can edit as often as you like. I'm also assuming you've read the Required reading and Instructions for Translators. Thanks for joining. --Axius(talk | contribs) 05:31, 25 December 2014 (PST)

Allah le meilleur trompeur

My translation is ready ! That was pretty much funny to translate, I will correct the faults if there is and put a annex for the complete translation of the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir and the article on Islamqa (because I put the french version that exist), thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 03:50, 30 December 2014 (PST)

Hi Maxime. Thank you for all your effort, but I've just been having a read of your French translation of "Allah the Best Deceiver", and it is not a close translation. You are altering the tone of our articles and that is not acceptable.

For example, most of the following introductory text is not in the English version (and if they were, it wouldn't be allowed on the site in that state):

French (google translation)...

The Qur'an often openly declares that Allah is the best misleading, of course Muslims hide it with another translation thanks to the richness of the Arabic language, of course they know it would drive away interested in Islam or Muslims of birth would discover the Koran. Before you begin, you should know that the root of the word found in the verses we will analyze is "Makr" clearly means "deception."

To recap, the Koran is not ashamed to frankly describe Allah as the "best deceiver" literal translations presented here will clearly confirm the meaning of the root word "Makr" as "fraud / deception." It should be noted that the majority of the Koran is also very wrongly translated, as we shall see in the following quotes and analysis.

Although there are many verses using the same word (Machir) with reference to Allah [1] This article will focus exclusively on the verses where Allah himself is described as the best deceiver.

...Vs. Original English:

The Qur'an openly states many times that Allah is the 'best deceiver'. The root word used in these verses is Makr which means deception.

The Qur'an openly states many times that Allah is the 'best deceiver'. The root word used in these verses is Makr which means deception. The literal translations presented here, referenced from a Muslim website, make this very clear. However, the majority of Qur'anic translations erroneously translate this term; as can be seen in the following quotes and analysis.

Although there are many places in the Qur'an that use the same word (makir) in reference to Allah,[1] this article will focus only on the verses in which Allah describes himself as the 'best deceiver'.

Please fix these problems, because as things are, this will not be allowed into the main space. There are plenty of completed examples available for you to see what we expect from translations, so I don't see what your problem is with providing us with more accurate ones. When I have some time, I will also be checking your other contributions to our existing French translations. If their tone has also been lowered, I will be also reverting your changes to them.

Also your really long note at the top of the page should not be there. It should either be on the article's talk page (e.g. see: Talk:Pedophilie dans le Coran) or at the bottom under the title "Notes de traduction (Translation Notes)".

Let me ask you this; if the original opening statement simply said, "The Qur'an openly states many times that Allah is the 'best deceiver'. The root word used in these verses is Makr which means deception," why did you feel the need to add all of that sensationalist nonsense about Muslims hiding the real meaning to attract converts and to stop other Muslims from leaving Islam? Did you NOT read those links Axius provided you earlier? Clearly, you did not otherwise you would have known that it goes against our Core Principles. So please read them. --Sahab (talk) 03:59, 30 December 2014 (PST)

Hi, I revise many portions of my article to tie in with the english version, I think it's now ok ! For reply to you, firstly because i'm to used to do with that method, and I read many french articles on this website and so much texts translated have no any sens in french, so it's give the impression of a site very unprofessional, but yes in reading my article I see that I add to much texts useless. Thanks --Maxime (talk) 06:10, 30 December 2014 (PST)

Okay. Thanks for the changes and well done on the completed translation. We'll take a proper look at it when we can. If everything is cool we'll add the necessary links/clean-up and announce it on the main page. --Sahab (talk) 15:45, 30 December 2014 (PST)

Hi Maxime. I've had a quick look at it and I must say that it looks much better. However, there is one line you missed (it is still left in English here):

Furthermore, there are verses in the Qur'an that show us that Allah did not only confine his deception to his enemies, as in the above quoted verses.

I've just edited one line on the English version (see the diffs here). Could you also please re-translate that one sentence for us? It's (only the bolded text):

Since the same word is used for both the unbelievers and Allah, in most cases the translators have opted for the more benign (and incorrect) translation in order to avoid revealing what, according to the Qur'an, Allah has truly said about himself.

That's done :), I will translate without add ton of useless informations an another article when this one will be published, thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 07:05, 31 December 2014 (PST)

I've just started getting it ready for the mainspace. I noticed that not all of the definition that you quoted for "trompeur" was at the source cited. I've deleted the stuff that wasn't there now, but that is something that you should never do. If you quote a source, then it must be quoted exactly.

This is all the extra stuff that you added:

Etymology: Deceive meant before the fourteenth century "playing the trumpet." This neutral verb, taking the reflexive form, "go wrong" acquired the sense of "play" and then "make fun of." This is a case of significance neologism. transitive verb that uses deception, lies.Derived forms:• be wrong pronoun -verbe• -name common female deception• misleading -adjectif• -name common deception

I don't think any of that is needed; it looks fine as it is, but could you tell me where you quoted that from and why was it quoted without a proper citation? I don't speak French so maybe I'm missing something.

There also seems to be quite a lot of clean up required with this translation, so I hope you do not mind helping us out here. For example, I noticed you did not bold the relevant sections of Ibn Kathir's tafsir in your translation. Nor did you leave the original Arabic or the formatting (line breaks, paragraphs etc.) in your translation. Could you please do that for us?

The source of the etymology is here : http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/tromper, I added this for tie in with the english version, for the tafsir of Ibn Kathir, I just copy and paste the version pdf that I have, but I've seen that there were some things missing on the french version of our tafsir. That's why I do the remark on the first message which you reply, quoted : "(I will) put a annex for the complete translation of the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir", because my version is uncomplete. And also, but that's will be very long, a translation of Islamqa article.

But I think (I will improve the layout of the tasfir) it's better to let the french version of the tasfir and also of Islamqa so that the french readers can find the original sources, thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 05:29, 1 January 2015 (PST)

Oh, cool. We can leave out that wiktionary stuff, the definition from Dictionnaire de français Larousse is fine. --Sahab (talk) 06:05, 1 January 2015 (PST)

Hello, I checked my article, and I saw that it still in uncomplete status ? I don't understand why ! Thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 10:23, 4 January 2015 (PST)

Hi. We're still waiting for your format fixes to the tafsir and Islam Q&A fatwa, in particular the bolding of the relevant text (the same lines as those in the English version). Once that is done, I can continue with the necessary clean up before announcing the complete translation on the main page.--Sahab (talk) 11:37, 4 January 2015 (PST)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘
Okay, this is almost done now. I have removed most of the English texts from the page. They made the page way too long (or in the case of section titles, way too messy). Since you usually mention in the text that you are presenting the French translations of English texts, they were redundant anyways. I also added the (anglais) tag to English sources to further correct this. Wikipedia policies state it is fine to cite non-native sources like this as long as you do that.

There are only three small things left for you to do:

1. Please translate the two following lines:

Edward William Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon is the most revered and scholarly English dictionary of the Arabic language. From Lane's Lexicon:

And:

The Hans Wehr dictionary is regarded as the standard scholarly dictionary of Arabic for English-speaking students and scholars of the language. It also confirms the meaning of the term:

The reason why I added those two lines now (even to the English version) is that how you originally translated that section may have made French-speakers assume these were normal bog-standard dictionaries. However, these are some of the most respected Arabic-English dictionaries ever written.

2. Could you tell me what French Qur'an translation you used here (Qur'an 42:11, Qur'an 16:103, Qur'an 3:7), here (Qur'an 8:43-44), and here (Qur'an 4:157-158)? I'm assuming these are from a proper French Qur'an. If so, those links need to be replaced with the name of the French version used.

3. Lastly, with the fact that it is being used in this translation, I'm assuming the French version of the Islam Q&A fatwa is similar to its English counterpart? Then please bold the equivalent sections.

Once those three minor things are done, this translation will be completed. Thanks for your work on this. --Sahab (talk) 02:29, 14 January 2015 (PST)

Hi, sorry for my absence, I has a big personal work, also I have no any notification for the reply in my page. All the Qur'an translation are mine and are not a copy of a french license, I read many times the french Qur'an so it's possible that my translation is write in the same form. There are only 3 french Qur'an (Hamidullah, DroitChemin and Rashad Khalifa) and I used only the Rashad Khalifa translation when the english version was used. You can checked it, thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 08:32, 14 January 2015 (PST)

Hi. I just checked quickly again and you have not implemented the changes I asked for (to tell the truth, I'm not quite sure what you did; I'll have to take a closer look to figure that out). Okay, now I've bolded the part you have not done in my previous comment (where I ask you to "Please translate the two following lines"), so please translate those two lines. I have an issue with your translation choice (Rashad Khalifa) but we can discuss that after you translate those two lines. Thanks. --Sahab (talk) 06:44, 20 February 2015 (PST)

Hi, that's done, I also add the last part of the english article. I hope that's good now, thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 17:16, 24 February 2015 (PST)

That's great! Yeah, it's done, so I've now announced it on the main page and linked it from the relevant pages. Thank you for your work on this. --Sahab (talk) 18:09, 24 February 2015 (PST)

Thanks, sorry for the inconveniences that I cause with my superfluous sentences. I will correct the last errors present in my translation (and in other article by the way) and begin to translate another english article. Hoping that french version of the site will be a truthful source of Islam for the french community, thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 06:37, 25 February 2015 (PST)

Additions to existing translations

What you added to the other article may be making it better but we dont have others to verify it so for that reason we have a policy that says the translations should match the English versions. Just letting you know. Also right now there's two headings of the same name ("Questions à ceux qui croient au miracle du 19"). I would say its probably best to remove the additions (unless they are minor corrections). --Axius(talk | contribs) 06:09, 27 December 2014 (PST)

Oh sorry I didn't see that I have copy 2 times the same text, so does the section (Calculs erronées) will be remove ? For inform you, it's not my own work, I take the source in this french website : http://www.islamcoranique.org/rashad-khalifa-imposteur-2, Can the section stay If i note the reference (because that's was a big work for me) ? Thanks. --Maxime (talk) 08:31, 27 December 2014 (PST)

Ok, I did a few translation checks and it looks fine, it can stay. But in future it would be best to maintain a match between the english and french. Its best for you to focus on new translations than to add to existing ones as we have no way of verifying the new additions. For existing content we can do some machine translation and see if it matches or not. --Axius(talk | contribs) 09:05, 27 December 2014 (PST)

Thanks, I begin to realy understand how the site works (I'm too used to the functioning of Wikipedia), in my opinion, there will not be problem anymore, I'll contact you when the article : Allah le meilleur trompeur (translation of Allah the best deceiver) will be ready, thanks ! --Maxime (talk) 09:38, 27 December 2014 (PST)

Sounds good. Its nice to have someone with experience from Wikipedia join the site so you are already familiar with editing tools/methods. --Axius(talk | contribs) 13:44, 27 December 2014 (PST)