That's totally your prerogative, to call it what you like. There’s a lexicon here to aid communication with these things. So we know what we’re talking about. Why not build your own lexicon? Then at least you will know what you are talking about even if nobody else does.

Its obvious you disagree with my POV so why not just simply say it? But just because you disagree with my POV does not mean I have to agree with yours. Clearly kag and I have the same viewpoint on this so obviously someone understands me. Posted via Mobile Device

Never had that happen working. I never asked him for anything when we first started dating. I was more interested in getting to know him... you know... chatting, discussing things, flirting to show him I was interested.Posted via Mobile Device

Though I realize many women here don't do this (because they care enough about their marriage to be here) but there is an overwhelmingly prodominate dynamic that happens to alot of good men.

1) Have a wonderful courtship with loads of sex.
2) Get married to the love of your life.
3) Have kids and work your A$$ off to take care of your little family.
4) Because of the love and admiration for your wife you dote on her and do all the things SHE says make her happy.
5) The sex goes out the window.
6) About 7 - 10 years down the road you get the "I'm not happy" or the "ILYBNILWY" speech.
7) If you are really unlucky you find she had an affair.

You then question everything you thought you knew about women and marriage. My wife didn't have an affair but I did get the "I'm Not Happy" speech. She's a SAHM and I have provided all she could want so how can she feel this way?

You know what it takes to make your man happy? Just have meaningful sex with him on a regular basis. You what it takes to make a woman happy? Everything, something, nothing who knows. So us guys fall over backwards with effort and we get ILYBNILWY. Meanwhile so many women know that single little thing that means the world to us and they don't bother.

Well MMSL is a book that deals with female psychology and thinking that leads to the above scenario and how to avoid it. There are many psychologic factors and the idea of a sh!t test is just one of them.

Its obvious you disagree with my POV so why not just simply say it? But just because you disagree with my POV does not mean I have to agree with yours. Clearly kag and I have the same viewpoint on this so obviously someone understands me. Posted via Mobile Device

There you go, women. Always trying to change things to suit themselves and ganging up on men. Even their own subject and in their own forum

Geeze AFEH... women are NOT outt to get you. Its perfectly fine and normal to disagree and have different POVs. It seems like no matter how I try to explain this to you... your stuck in.. "oh she or they must be out to get me or men" in general world. I am not in any way a femenist just because my POV differs from your own nor am I throwing out tests at you. Is it really so difficult to comprehend that not all women are out to get men? That some of us actually love, respect, and adore our men? Some of us here believe in putting forth an equal amount of work into the relationship to make it work you know. Some of us here enjoy being able to have teamwork in our relationship.Posted via Mobile Device

That's understandable paul and its sad that your ex put you through such crap. Same goes for you AFEH. I really do feel bad for you guys who didn't have a woman who would try to communicate her needs as well as try to fullfill yours.Posted via Mobile Device

Geeze AFEH... women are NOT outt to get you. Its perfectly fine and normal to disagree and have different POVs. It seems like no matter how I try to explain this to you... your stuck in.. "oh she or they must be out to get me or men" in general world. I am not in any way a femenist just because my POV differs from your own nor am I throwing out tests at you. Is it really so difficult to comprehend that not all women are out to get men? That some of us actually love, respect, and adore our men? Some of us here believe in putting forth an equal amount of work into the relationship to make it work you know. Some of us here enjoy being able to have teamwork in our relationship.Posted via Mobile Device

I was jesting with you. It's good your concerned. But believe me I'm a very contented man who feels blessed to have had his woman by his side for over 40 years, truly blessed. Believe me she tested me and I her, you don't go that long without getting through quite a bit of whatsit.

Though I realize many women here don't do this (because they care enough about their marriage to be here) but there is an overwhelmingly prodominate dynamic that happens to alot of good men.

1) Have a wonderful courtship with loads of sex.
2) Get married to the love of your life.
3) Have kids and work your A$$ off to take care of your little family.
4) Because of the love and admiration for your wife you dote on her and do all the things SHE says make her happy.
5) The sex goes out the window.
6) About 7 - 10 years down the road you get the "I'm not happy" or the "ILYBNILWY" speech.
7) If you are really unlucky you find she had an affair.

You then question everything you thought you knew about women and marriage. My wife didn't have an affair but I did get the "I'm Not Happy" speech. She's a SAHM and I have provided all she could want so how can she feel this way?

You know what it takes to make your man happy? Just have meaningful sex with him on a regular basis. You what it takes to make a woman happy? Everything, something, nothing who knows. So us guys fall over backwards with effort and we get ILYBNILWY. Meanwhile so many women know that single little thing that means the world to us and they don't bother.

Well MMSL is a book that deals with female psychology and thinking that leads to the above scenario and how to avoid it. There are many psychologic factors and the idea of a sh!t test is just one of them.

Yup...I just got the "Are you happy? 'Cause I'm not..." talk last Saturday...and now what I thought was a great marriage is in limbo...she says "I still love you and don't want to hurt you, but I'm not happy..."

We are working on it, since she figured I had checked out...but man, what a feeling...I would have been happier if I had gotten hit by a truck!

I need to start reading some of the books...I haven't put the same effort you did in, so I am going to have to take it up a notch...or six! I think I fail the sh!t test regularily...

That's understandable paul and its sad that your ex put you through such crap. Same goes for you AFEH. I really do feel bad for you guys who didn't have a woman who would try to communicate her needs as well as try to fullfill yours.Posted via Mobile Device

I appreciate that but it has happened twice now. The difference is my current wife hasn't cheated on me which is a deal breaker.

The scary think about MMSL and manning up is that it works. Since have stopped being so "nice" to her the relationship has been much better. It sucks though. It used to be that she might be laying in bed in her cute panties and say "I'm craving a slurpie" and I would be out the door to get it. Now, not so much and I get treated better for it

I appreciated that Athol Kay himself understands that not every interaction, request, and complaint is a fitness test. I think that is what may have ruffled feathers here.

In general, I support any kind of literature or idea that keeps people proactive in seeking and giving respect, keeping appropriate boundaries and learning to communicate better. I think that is the root of MMSL principles, and maybe a few will take it too far.

FWIW, a little about myself - I am married to a classic people pleaser, doormat "nice guy" and yes, I would like it very much if he would stand up for himself more often. He is very much always looking to please me when all I want is his true opinion and for him to tell me his thoughts and desires. Even if they conflict with mine. I am always looking to understand him better and to make our marriage a content and safe place for him to open up to me, while at the same time keeping my own boundaries in place and trying to encourage only healthy and respectful communications between the two of us.

I am always looking for ways to better my own communication and in turn, myself, to improve our marriage. I know there are plenty of other women out there like me.Posted via Mobile Device

Though I realize many women here don't do this (because they care enough about their marriage to be here) but there is an overwhelmingly prodominate dynamic that happens to alot of good men.

1) Have a wonderful courtship with loads of sex.
2) Get married to the love of your life.
3) Have kids and work your A$$ off to take care of your little family.
4) Because of the love and admiration for your wife you dote on her and do all the things SHE says make her happy.
5) The sex goes out the window.
6) About 7 - 10 years down the road you get the "I'm not happy" or the "ILYBNILWY" speech.
7) If you are really unlucky you find she had an affair.

You then question everything you thought you knew about women and marriage. My wife didn't have an affair but I did get the "I'm Not Happy" speech. She's a SAHM and I have provided all she could want so how can she feel this way?

You know what it takes to make your man happy? Just have meaningful sex with him on a regular basis. You what it takes to make a woman happy? Everything, something, nothing who knows. So us guys fall over backwards with effort and we get ILYBNILWY. Meanwhile so many women know that single little thing that means the world to us and they don't bother.

Well MMSL is a book that deals with female psychology and thinking that leads to the above scenario and how to avoid it. There are many psychologic factors and the idea of a sh!t test is just one of them.

Sometimes some people are too good, too reliable, consistent, dependable. Think on some of the most consistent, reliable and dependable things that you use.

Take oxygen. Probably the most consistent and reliable thing you use every single minute of every single day, 24x7. Do you treasure it? Do you count your blessings that it’s there “all the time?”. Do you even think about it, ever?

What about the sun that you know will come up in the morning, or the water you know for a fact that will come out of the tap when you turn it on. Or how about that light you switch on.

We never think about those things because they’re always there and we don’t have to do much to ensure we have a constant, consistent and reliable supply of them and because of that we take them for granted. But how long could we live in a world without oxygen or water, what would the world be like, how long would we last if the sun didn’t come up tomorrow morning.

Marriage is like that. The more consistent and reliable you are, the more you provide and the longer you provide for the more you are going to get taken for granted. Unfortunately a husband in your position can’t just “turn the supplies off”. Stop paying the mortgage or rent, you’re in trouble. And how about the services, what if you stop paying for those?

So in a way you are well and truly buggered. The better the husband you are, the more unappreciated and devalued you become.

In over 30 years of paying rent and mortgages I slipped just the once. I paid all the bills in my marriage even though my wife worked, I was a fool. Years later I just couldn’t get my wife to appreciate what I did for her. So to try and wake her up, I told her fictionally “I’m not able to pay the mortgage this month”. Know what she said? “How could you let that happen again”. When I pointed out the point I was making she did at least apologise.

Why not just plan to book yourself a three or four week holiday? Don’t tell your wife until a few days before departure. Get yourself a backpack or whatever and just take yourself off. She’ll have a long time to think about things and may actually fear losing you (all that you provide) because fear of loss is probably the only thing that’s going to wake her out of her slumber!

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