$lacker wrote:Guess we keep forgetting that Gold medal that hangs around his neck where he not only had the weight of Vancouver, but the whole of Canada on his shoulders.

The only difference being that in the Gold Medal game, he had players in front of hm that could actually SCORE.

Boom and there it is, the teams biggest weakness is not goaltending it's the lack of scoring, and so far the only option for MG is to keep every player we have now and fill the rest in with some rookies, along with maybe one more trade. All while hoping Booth and Kesler stay relatively injury free for our 2nd line.

But I hear your complaints UDL, Lu does wear his heart on his sleeve and can succumb to depression like play when he has an off game, but more often than not he plays really well, the best goaltending this team has ever had in it's entirety.

Yes it is unfortunate Burkie really wanted his new rule implented to force a steal of a deal to land Lu, but shit happens and Schneider was forced to be traded instead, so we just have to make the best of it.

I think when push comes to shove Lu will bounce back and be stellar once again for the next five years or so, he can still play even better imo.

I'd compare Lu to Eddie the Eagle in that he gets better with age to a certain point obviously. Luongo is entering his prime years right now with his wealth of experience and knowledge of the game without being too old just yet.

Mondi wrote:Even in some of the big wins (Game 7 WCQF 2011, Gold Medal Game 2010) he's found a way to give one up in the last minute of the third.

That statement is horse shit and you know it.

In G7R1 had the tables been reversed and Kesler scored a short handed goal with under a minute left to send the game into OT, NOBODY would be saying Crawford let in a weak goal, rather they'd be talking about the great goal by RK17. Towes (as much as I hate to say it) scored a brilliant never-quit goal to send it into OT.

In OT with Burrows in the box, Towes sets up Sharp almost point blank and Luongo stops the shot. Don't hear you talking about that one...

In the GMG, same thing, he gets left alone against two Americans in the final minute but there is no fault on the d-men in the game, it's all Lou's fault. No mention of the point blank save he made in the OT when Neidermayer gave the puck up, nor of the decision Lou made the keep the play alive which resulted in the puck being played down to the American zone and in the net.

I was on the train back to burbs as the 3rd period started...an old guy knows when to split the scene when the young 'uns are about to get into it; wasn't about to become collateral damage. Plus, the 3rd period was too depressing to stick around for...

Mondi wrote:Even in some of the big wins (Game 7 WCQF 2011, Gold Medal Game 2010) he's found a way to give one up in the last minute of the third.

That statement is horse shit and you know it.

In G7R1 had the tables been reversed and Kesler scored a short handed goal with under a minute left to send the game into OT, NOBODY would be saying Crawford let in a weak goal, rather they'd be talking about the great goal by RK17. Towes (as much as I hate to say it) scored a brilliant never-quit goal to send it into OT.

In OT with Burrows in the box, Towes sets up Sharp almost point blank and Luongo stops the shot. Don't hear you talking about that one...

In the GMG, same thing, he gets left alone against two Americans in the final minute but there is no fault on the d-men in the game, it's all Lou's fault. No mention of the point blank save he made in the OT when Neidermayer gave the puck up, nor of the decision Lou made the keep the play alive which resulted in the puck being played down to the American zone and in the net.

See you're making excuses for the fact that it always seems to happen to the same guy. Who knows what would have happened if X or Y or Z, all we know is what did happen.

I've gone on record saying he's a good player, and that the difference between he and Cory, while apparent, is not fatal. But, time and again we find he's the one choking on the big stage or giving up the crucial goal.

As for the poster talking about the Canucks in ability to score goals, its not a closed system. If your goalie gives up a soft one, the whole team sags. And, beyond that, the Canucks had the number one offence in 2010 and 2011.

But, given all the circumstances (i.e. not just the blow ups), the Canucks are in a terrible spot unless, and until, Bo Horvat starts popping in goals and checking Toews into the ground. This is no longer about Lu the player, it involves a lot of other moving parts that just happen to suck (i.e. GMMG, the new CBA, the trade market, and perhaps that locker room stuff).

I knew earlier in the Finals that there was going to be huge trouble downtown. Told some friends that because we had come out of games and walked through the streets and the mood was hyped and edgy from the beginning of the series. We were caught in a mosh pit at the corner of Georgia and Burrard and there was no police presence to speak of. The few we saw standing around looked bewildered as if they'd been expecting a happy Olympic crowd but got the nightstalkers instead.

After game 7 I got a phone call from my sister as we were pulling out of the parking telling us to get the hell out of downtown as the trouble was beginning. We could hear the fire engines but were on our way home before it got bad.

Mondi wrote:I've gone on record saying he's a good player, and that the difference between he and Cory, while apparent, is not fatal. But, time and again we find he's the one choking on the big stage or giving up the crucial goal.

You mean like letting in 3 goals in 2 and half minutes in the 3rd period to turn a 2-1 game into a 5-1 game?

Or maybe, just maybe it was letting in the tying goal with 4 and half minutes left in the 3rd and completely losing site of the shot that won it in overtime even though it was sitting right in front of you in the crease? In an elimination game.

Maybe it's not being able to win 1 (just 1) OT playoff game in your career - nothing bigger than an OT game (amirite?)

Mondi wrote:As for the poster talking about the Canucks in ability to score goals, its not a closed system. If your goalie gives up a soft one, the whole team sags. And, beyond that, the Canucks had the number one offence in 2010 and 2011.

How about a goalie getting deflated because the players in front of him can't score any goals. Who cares if they lead the league in scoring in 2010 and 2011 - they scored 8 goals in the final against a goalie that let in over 20 goals in the previous series. If not for Lou in 2011 they would have lost that series in 4 straight games.

Mondi wrote:Yeah Cory's huge resume of coming into playoff series down 0-2. Not to mention all the excuses you apply to RL apply equally (if not more so) to Cory.

And all the excuses you apply to Cory apply equally (if not more so) to RL.

And around and around we go...

Hockey is a complex, Team sport. Goaltender is the most important position. RL is by every measure one of the best goalies of the last decade. CS has been very good in a limited role thus far, and what potential he has remains unrealized.

If the team's problems were as simple as "Luongo chokes in big games", then I think MG could have fixed it...or CS would have gotten us out of the first round either of the last 2 years. The problems with the team that kept them from advancing under CS have also kept RL from winning a cup, which is basically the only thing he hasn't achieved.

Cory will do very well in NJ, away from the spotlight and pressure he struggled with in Vancouver. While they likely won't make the playoffs any time soon, I fear that will not be the end of the CS vs. RL debate.

$lacker wrote:Not a chance UDL. If Lu had been on a normal contract with 3-5 years left on it he would have commanded a decent return for the Canucks. And the BIGGEST of games? Really? Guess we keep forgetting that Gold medal that hangs around his neck where he not only had the weight of Vancouver, but the whole of Canada on his shoulders.

^This^The best counter argument yet.

I have to retract my point that it has nothing to do with his contract. If he had a normal contract with a manageable term remaining then absolutely he wouldve been picked up. The risk wouldve been negated.

But...

What is the risk? It's will he again become an emotional wreck at some crucial point in his prospective teams future?This is meat of my issue with RL

Although there have been plenty of Stanley Cup winning goaltenders who probably wouldn't even be considered top 15 in the league.....

Timing is everything.

Excellent point - the Cam Ward Effect.

I totally believe in the Cam Ward Effect, and as you point out several Cup-winning goalies have been non-elite, but got hot at the right time while playing on a team that was peaking as a whole. The downside is a guy like Antti Niemi, who was a CWE-type goalie, winning a Cup on an incredible Hawks team, but hasn't done a whole lot in the playoffs on a contending SJS team since.

Also, more teams try to find the hot rookie goalie and fail to make the playoffs than are actually successful at it.

I used to believe that the Canucks need a CWE to get over the hump, and that Schneider was the player to do it. Two things changed my mind:1. Luongo winning gold in the most-watched hockey game in history, on home ice.2. Schneider's playoff performances, specifically his panic attacks.

A guy who has a panic attack in his first playoff start (in a non-elimination game) is not going to get hot and go on a crazy run.

If the Canucks were to trade both goalies, put their money into other areas, and go with Lack, then you're in full-on Cam Ward mode, and you have to hope and pray that you make the playoffs. After the Cloutier years I'm not interested in worrying about goaltending any more.

One thing that is very nice with Joacim Eriksson is that despite his youth he has a lot of playoff experience and is a championship winning goalie.

He was on the Swedish J18 team that won the Ivan Hlinka Memorial in 07/08, albeit riding the pine behind Jakob Markström. He was then the starter on the Brynäs youth team that won the Swedish junior championship in 08/09 (Markström was already playing in the SHL then). He was stuck behind all the other great goalies Brynäs fostered at the time (Markström, Lindbäck, Läck...), so he switched teams to get ice time. He thus ended up playing for Skellefteå, whose last three years have ended in silver-silver-gold. Rode the pine in the first playoff series but then assumed the starting position for them (albeit in a 1A/1B situation).

I'm not suggesting he's ready for the NHL at this point, but a year or two in Utica to adjust to the North American game should suffice. Just saying that his playoff and championship winning background should give him the right mindset to achieve great things one day. If we hold on to Loungo for a couple of years, we don't need to worry about the future. There's plenty of talented goalie prospects in the organisation.