Well Autosport has what could very well be the outline for WRGB 2012. This new route is shorter and more manufacturer friendly than last years WRGB. No plans to move to Harrogate, but maybe that will happen when the WRC finally decides to move to "Endurance" rallies.

Day 1

DyfnatGartheiniogHafren/Sweet Lamb (Combined stage that is used in the British Historic Championship)Myherin

Day 2

CrychanHalfwayEpyntCeltic Manor (Super Special at Night)

Day 3

Port Talbot (Margam)RheolaWalter's Arena (Power Stage)

It does sound like an interesting route, but it could be a let down for those that liked last years route. It is nice to see Sweet Lamb and Hafren combined into one stage, but stil; not a proper RAC. Harrogate could have been a nice HQ and could have allowed for a proper RAC with stages all over the UK and Southern Scotland. At least the manufacturers got what they wanted .

Though the rally still starts in the North at Conwy Castle I understand. Shame no Great Orme, but of course this is the Amateur World Championship, so no asphalt stage by the rules because only proper drivers can cope with mixed surface events.

To combine Sweet Lamb with Hafren Forest is good, though. I mean it doesn't really matter if Sweet Lamb is run as a separate stage or added to the end of Hafren. In the past (proper RACs) both versions were used and we didn't have the combined version since a very long time, so it adds to variety. But probably the manufacturers will complain, they are not used to variety and change.

I am not sure about this years layout. If the start is in Northern Wales anyway, they could have done Great Orme. Harrogate or Chester start would even have been better. But to make it manufacturer friendly, I would suggest Friday Sweet Lamb only, Saturday the Celtic Manor Superspecial and that Power Stage, and forget about the Sunday because nothing happens on a short Sunday anyway. All stages run twice, makes about 9km of competition and saves a lot of money and makes the travel to Wales for the teams really worthwhile. Not only the manufacturers, but also Malcolm Wilson's customers will be happy. With a 9km rally they travel all the way from USA and Brasil to save a lot of money in Wales!

ChrisB wrote:Though the rally still starts in the North at Conwy Castle I understand. Shame no Great Orme, but of course this is the Amateur World Championship, so no asphalt stage by the rules because only proper drivers can cope with mixed surface events.

To combine Sweet Lamb with Hafren Forest is good, though. I mean it doesn't really matter if Sweet Lamb is run as a separate stage or added to the end of Hafren. In the past (proper RACs) both versions were used and we didn't have the combined version since a very long time, so it adds to variety. But probably the manufacturers will complain, they are not used to variety and change.

I am not sure about this years layout. If the start is in Northern Wales anyway, they could have done Great Orme. Harrogate or Chester start would even have been better. But to make it manufacturer friendly, I would suggest Friday Sweet Lamb only, Saturday the Celtic Manor Superspecial and that Power Stage, and forget about the Sunday because nothing happens on a short Sunday anyway. All stages run twice, makes about 9km of competition and saves a lot of money and makes the travel to Wales for the teams really worthwhile. Not only the manufacturers, but also Malcolm Wilson's customers will be happy. With a 9km rally they travel all the way from USA and Brasil to save a lot of money in Wales!

Sunderland would fit in with Todt's proposed "Endurance Rallies" for the WRC. We could have stages from all over the UK and even Scotland! It was reported on both MaxRally as well as Autosport (Print).

But there was no Kielder last year. Though for this year's route, it seems pointless starting at Conwy Castle/North Wales if we don't do Great Orme and Clocaenog. Starting in the North without doing any stages in the North, WTF?! Only serves to help critics against longer rallies find arguments!

Andrew Coe was on The Rally Show on Monday night - he said the Manufacturers were pleased with the route for this year. Hmm, which tells me everything that is wrong with the sport. If they like something - it means it's not good.

Last year was a pretty good route - it wasn't perfect, but it seemed like the start of something better for the event. Sadly, this year is pretty non descript - apart from Celtic Manor, which is a good idea.

However, Coe said that it was an iconic event, and a big Motorsport event.........He needs to visit planet earth, it simply isn't, and hasn't been for years. This year it clashes with the Goodwood Revival meeting, and will come off 2nd best....that event gets decent coverage in the car mags and weekend broadsheet papers.

What a sad state of affairs Rally GB has been through, and yes this is the official entry list. Only 31 crews are attending this shell of an event. Even Malcolm Wilson is disappointed in the turnout. RAC used to have 5 to 6 times more crews and it was a popular event. Even ChrisB used to never miss an RAC rally. Now it is just a joke. I want Rally GB to move away from Wales and offer a proper Endurance RAC in November.

Indeed I never missed an RAC. Even if it meant I had to travel from Germany and then travel all round England, Scotland, Wales, it was the best holiday one could have, for me Christmas was always 4 weeks early. Until the end of the 90s, exactly up until that moment the park stages were removed, the RAC also was always booked out at 200 entries. If you see those 31 entries today, and all of it all the way down in South Wales, it wouldn’t even be worth the trip for me if I still lived in England!

I guess the event is too expensive now and the solution will be if we shorten the rally to 2 days with max 3 stages per day and 1-car works teams!

The problem is everyone connected with the sport and the event has their head in the sand. They are trading on the 80 year history. The only thing RallyGB has In common with the old RAC Rally is the Trophy.It is just another identikit modern WRC event. Very little interest from the clubmen, very little interest from the public, and no interest from the media. All the exact opposite of the old event. As I said in the ther thread, it needs a complete overhaul. What is best for the event isn't what the backers/ sponsors want. It simply needs to be based more centrally, Chester is the perfect place. The problem is that IMS are all about moneymaking - since they took over, the event has declined alarmingly.....

AndyRAC is spot on. It’s not hard to see that the event in ist current format is a failure. It’s a bit more complicated why that is, but see my comments above about my holidays to RAC Rally coming from Germany, while I wouldn’t even travel to spectate the current event if I was living in UK! And for amateur drivers it is very much the same. I simply don’t get the thinking behind this endless shortening of events to apparently cut cost. Because even if you turn it a 9km event you still have the travel, the same preparing of the car, testing, scrutineering, etc pp, it’s still the same if the event is 9km or 900, and the entry fees have even risen dramatically.

That said, the fault can’t be with IMS, at least not alone.

All other excuses are rubbish as well. This time one excuse was Wales being on the same weekend as IRC Yalta. Brilliant excuse, anybody seen the entry of Yalta? I bet Bostanci in a Fiesta R2 would have shown Loeb a thing or two.... Two years ago when the same IMS organisers had trouble filling the IRC Scottish entries, they claimed it was to close in date to Wales, but neither in Wales nor in Scotland any bigger name British crews as Higgins, Evens & Co entered, so lame excuse, both events were simply not interesting in layout and value for money!