… The difference being we humans have the intellect to … recognize where we went wrong before and implement changes for sustainability.krakatoaSeptember 2nd, 2010 at 11:52 am

It’s a pity that those with the intellect lack the power, and those with the power lack the intellect. I fear that sustainability isn’t sustainable.

]]>By: Paul78http://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/space-mam/comment-page-1/#comment-65233
Sat, 04 Sep 2010 13:03:14 +0000http://cryptomundo.com/?p=32947#comment-65233Ragnar, There are only a handful of cases with evidence of them being purposefully ran off cliffs, it is just that the media grabs a hold of it and runs with it, especially in documentaries; generally because it looks good.

Mibs, For Neanderthals it was a close quarters hunt. As I mentioned above Neanderthals had an upper arm limit that meant they could not through a spear properly, not even with a thrower, combined with that Neanderthal skeletons have frequent healed and fatal injuries that confirm this type of hunting. In fact in research the modern equivalent in a person consistent with these injuries was a rodeo rider.

]]>By: Mibshttp://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/space-mam/comment-page-1/#comment-65232
Sat, 04 Sep 2010 06:37:22 +0000http://cryptomundo.com/?p=32947#comment-65232I think climate played the bigger role in the relative extinction of the great beasts from the giant sloth, mammoth, horse, bison, and their respective apex predators. Once the grass became unavailable, the entire eco-system collapsed.

The theory that the often mislabeled paleo-indians forced mass extinction via cliff jumping rings of a more prejudiced view when we really very limited evidence to suggest how they lived and hunted in the first place. Common sense shows that mammoths, just like modern elephants, were likely more dangerous to humans than vice versa, and I can’t imagine humans engaging in herding matches of such a colossal creature with mere spears and men.

I too wonder just how often entire herds of anything were run off cliffs, particularly in the Great Plains.

]]>By: Paul78http://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/space-mam/comment-page-1/#comment-65210
Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:47:15 +0000http://cryptomundo.com/?p=32947#comment-65210I’m an archaeology student and the general consensus in prehistoric archaeology is that climate change was the culprit for the mammal extinction, as the climate warmed grasslands shrank and were replaced by trees and this lack of their habitat killed them off and rather than hunting being the culprit it is now only believed not to have helped in their decline. The earth strike thing has never held much weight.

As for the Mammoths off the cliff activity, relatively it is not the frequent and may have been a Neanderthal practice. Neanderthals see due to upper arm limitation could only hunt at close range.

]]>By: dogu4http://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/space-mam/comment-page-1/#comment-65209
Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:38:46 +0000http://cryptomundo.com/?p=32947#comment-65209I just read the paper. It doesn’t look like these researchers acquired and sorted their samples the same way as the orignial researchers did. They’re calling it sloppy testing.
For example: at the Murray Springs site, the orignal researchers tested the sediments and they are saying that this recent analysis was done on material taken from actual lumps of charcoal, which the original researchers never did.
]]>By: krakatoahttp://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/space-mam/comment-page-1/#comment-65202
Thu, 02 Sep 2010 15:52:25 +0000http://cryptomundo.com/?p=32947#comment-65202Seems like hunting animals to extinction may be a running theme with humans…

… and any other Apex predator. The difference being we humans have the intellect to quickly adapt to other food-supplies, and to recognize where we went wrong before and implement changes for sustainability.

Agree that over-hunting probably played a large role (so much for the noble-savage fantasy), although I imagine disease could have been involved.

My understanding is that the hunting technique used (10000 BC’s fantasies notwithstanding) was to stampede a herd of mammoths to cliffs and let gravity do its thing. So a tribe that may only have been able to process one or a few mammoths would potentially kill dozens or more in a single hunt.

Amazing how far we humans have come, wouldn’t you say?

]]>By: Haroldhttp://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/space-mam/comment-page-1/#comment-65194
Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:27:29 +0000http://cryptomundo.com/?p=32947#comment-65194In “Under a Green Sky” Peter Ward discussed how in the post-Alvarez world, asteroid strikes became the most popular hypothesis for every mass extinction, even though there is fairly solid evidence for an asteroid as the culprit in only the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event. So when I first read about the proposed asteroid strike hypothesis for this recent extinction in a cover story in one of my Astronomy magazines, I was immediately skeptical. Little by little the editors have retracted every claim made in this article, until it looks like the evidence has all blown away.

So what did wipe them out? There are lots of other suggestions – climate change (an enemy of highly cold-climate adapted animals) and overhunting among them. Seems like hunting animals to extinction may be a running theme with humans.