dogstile:No, they're getting sued for false advertising, not because the ending sucked (even though it did) but because the choices that you had at the ending achieved nothing. Hell, is it even possible to fail mass effect 3? If I rushed through the game and didn't collect war assets, picking the worst choices, I would still beat the reapers.

There wasn't meaningful choices. At all.

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Of course they deserved this. As do the developers of any game that hasn't lived up to what they've promised. If you sell a product advertising it has a feature and you take it out without removing the advertisement, you deserve to get sued.

I don't know why Bioware has been singled out, but it doesn't matter, more companies should learn. Just because they've always done it doesn't mean its ok.

Uh, then the BBB is still filled with morons. This is not the first time the BBB has supported something that is completely and unequivocally wrong. Seriously there is a laundry list of instances when the BBB has put their stamp of approval on a business that within the same year that same organization is found guilty of fraud, extortion and other illegal business practices and had been for years.

So thankfully the BBB has basically no actual weight in this matter. Because this is a moronic baseless decision. Simply put you cannot claim that peoples interpretation of "promises" are advertisements. Hell there is still no evidence of actual advertisements being made that have not been fulfilled.

Heres the crux.

The Mass Effect website promises, among other things, that "the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome," which as she notes does not leave a lot of room for interpretation. "There is no indecision in that statement. It is an absolute,

This is the closest thing, to an actual advertised feature that people are able to present and it is still a failure to support the false advertising claim.

If the woman cannot even comprehend how that is NOT concrete and in fact NOT absolute, then her entire opinion on the matter is invalid.

Mass effect 3 delivered on a game where your actions completely shaped your experience. However it does not say at all that your decisions completely shape your ending. Yes your decisions shape your outcome, albeit it in a limited capacity, but it does not say that your decisions completely shape the ending, though even then it still does. For christ sake, they show you a video right underneath that text explaining exactly what they meant and they fulfilled that advertised promise.

The ending is not specifically the "outcome". Many of the outcomes were decided well before the last 10 minutes of the game as in which civilzations survived and which didnt. The "outcome" extends far beyond the final cut scenes. The final approach, the final confrontation are also parts of "the outcome" How many times have we as gamers been presented with a boss battle in which you can go ahead and fight the final boss, or you can do side content first to "weaken" the boss before its even engaged. Hell this isnt even new to bioware. Look at the final events of Dragon Age Origins. You shape the outcome at the Landsmeet, you shape the final conflict by the choices you made through the game in which allies you have who are defending you to allow you to go to the archdemon. Simply put, ME3 does allow for your choices to shape the outcome of events. It does not state that your choices shape the ending of the game.

Simply put the basis for the claim of false advertisement fails and this proves it because of a failure to differentiate the definition of the word ending and the word outcome and that the entire claim is based on nothing more than an incorrect assumption.

As for this person, If you cannot handle the simple task of reading comprehension then please for the love of god keep your opinion to yourself and if your opinion is a part of your vocation then congratulations, you have a job you are unqualified for.

dogstile:No, they're getting sued for false advertising, not because the ending sucked (even though it did) but because the choices that you had at the ending achieved nothing. Hell, is it even possible to fail mass effect 3? If I rushed through the game and didn't collect war assets, picking the worst choices, I would still beat the reapers.

There wasn't meaningful choices. At all.

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Of course they deserved this. As do the developers of any game that hasn't lived up to what they've promised. If you sell a product advertising it has a feature and you take it out without removing the advertisement, you deserve to get sued.

I don't know why Bioware has been singled out, but it doesn't matter, more companies should learn. Just because they've always done it doesn't mean its ok.

What if I feel that ME3 did reflect my choices? Am I not entitled to that opinion? And, if I am entitled to my opinion, then ME3 does indeed live up to its promises. Where do we draw the line? CoD MW3 promised the best shooter of all time. I didn't think it was, but they promised it. Can I sue Infinity Ward now?

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here. Do you at least see my point? Not asking to agree, just to see what I'm saying.

AnarchistAbe:Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Because people really invested in the Mass Effect series, after completing Mass Effect 2 people went back through ME1 and ME2 to see how things changed.

Once they completed ME3 it didn't really seem like there was a point, I could spend 3 games alienating every possible ally and being a complete prick to all other races and the ending won't change in the slightest.

Nobody MADE us do it. We WANTED to. Nobody GUARANTEED that our choices would come together in a meaningful way, they just told us that they would and asked us to take it on faith.

We made the conscious decision to play all three games. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

Someone should make a Chris Crocker style video for Bioware...since this is getting ri-goddamn-diculous...

"LEAVE BIOWARE ALONE! LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!"

All i'll say is, Bioware has put out some of the best RPGs in existence. They pretty much fucked up with ME3. But how many times have other companies fucked up with their games? We forgave those companies, so why can't we forgive Bioware?

I think people forget that ME3 is still a great game, just with a shitty ending. People didn't flip out this bad over Dragon Age 2, and that game wasn't nearly as good as ME3...

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Of course they deserved this. As do the developers of any game that hasn't lived up to what they've promised. If you sell a product advertising it has a feature and you take it out without removing the advertisement, you deserve to get sued.

I don't know why Bioware has been singled out, but it doesn't matter, more companies should learn. Just because they've always done it doesn't mean its ok.

What if I feel that ME3 did reflect my choices? Am I not entitled to that opinion? And, if I am entitled to my opinion, then ME3 does indeed live up to its promises. Where do we draw the line? CoD MW3 promised the best shooter of all time. I didn't think it was, but they promised it. Can I sue Infinity Ward now?

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here. Do you at least see my point? Not asking to agree, just to see what I'm saying.

I see your point, but I disagree that your example is the same. They can argue that best means that its been sold the most. But I suppose its for the courts to decide.

I got that you were playing devils advocate, I enjoy playing it too :)

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Of course they deserved this. As do the developers of any game that hasn't lived up to what they've promised. If you sell a product advertising it has a feature and you take it out without removing the advertisement, you deserve to get sued.

I don't know why Bioware has been singled out, but it doesn't matter, more companies should learn. Just because they've always done it doesn't mean its ok.

What if I feel that ME3 did reflect my choices? Am I not entitled to that opinion? And, if I am entitled to my opinion, then ME3 does indeed live up to its promises. Where do we draw the line? CoD MW3 promised the best shooter of all time. I didn't think it was, but they promised it. Can I sue Infinity Ward now?

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here. Do you at least see my point? Not asking to agree, just to see what I'm saying.

Of course they deserved this. As do the developers of any game that hasn't lived up to what they've promised. If you sell a product advertising it has a feature and you take it out without removing the advertisement, you deserve to get sued.

I don't know why Bioware has been singled out, but it doesn't matter, more companies should learn. Just because they've always done it doesn't mean its ok.

What if I feel that ME3 did reflect my choices? Am I not entitled to that opinion? And, if I am entitled to my opinion, then ME3 does indeed live up to its promises. Where do we draw the line? CoD MW3 promised the best shooter of all time. I didn't think it was, but they promised it. Can I sue Infinity Ward now?

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here. Do you at least see my point? Not asking to agree, just to see what I'm saying.

I see your point, but I disagree that your example is the same. They can argue that best means that its been sold the most. But I suppose its for the courts to decide.

I got that you were playing devils advocate, I enjoy playing it too :)

This is a funny kettle of fish. But surly every publisher and dev team are guilty of this. My gods, peter molyneux should be spending the rest of his life in a court room if the gaming public decided enough is enough.

VMK:I think Bioware should just stop making RPG games and start making sport-sims and multiplayer FPSes. At least fans of those games are not as rage-filled as RPG ones, and are more grateful.And it will bring them more money.

I understand that they could have done it better. I understand that everyone (including me) wanted to see the impact of their actions. But this is just ridiculous. Such ammount of rage and complaints is but a tantrum. Legal complaint? Are you kidding me?!

They [Bioware]have already said, that they, well, "feel us" (On this I trust Bioware); They have already stated that they are making an Extended cut DLC (which, I assure You, will be free: EA won't dare make us pay for it after the whole scandal). What else do you want? You want them to buy your copies from you and replace it with the "right" ones for free? Maybe a fellatio from Ray Muzyka himself, just for the sake of it?

You played the game, you enjoyed it until the very end, which they will fix.So stop it. Just stop it. This is literally crazy. It is as if litlle spoiled kid got a fresh, home-made chocolate cookle from his/her grandma, and saw a bit of raw dough on the side:-UWWAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!! This cookie is bad!!!!-Honey, please calm down, grandma will fix it.-No!You messed it up! I hate you!- screamed the child, while eating one cookie after another, for they were delicious, every single one of them. Exept for the one with the dough.

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

Well, actully it's more like Starbucks making the cookie rather then your gran.

I see the retakers continue to back up their stereotype as the entitled, overreacting whiners with each and every new story. Keep telling me that "it's only a minority" retakers. You're only fooling yourselves.

AnarchistAbe:Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

You bring up a point I'd wanted to make. Though not in BioWare's defense. The gaming industry is a den of snake oil dealers like Peter Molyneux. The issue isn't just on the marketing side, but the developers themselves. They have interviews and panels where they talk about games in development and promise us features they will never deliver. I understand some stuff will have to be cut during development, but if they cut something they promised to us they need clarify that it will not be in game.

A good example would be the "Ending A, B and C" quote which was said like two months before the game release.

AnarchistAbe:Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

Once again trolls have no place on this site. Delete your account and go back to YouTube.

AnarchistAbe:Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

Once again trolls have no place on this site. Delete your account and go back to YouTube.

You're SOOO cool! I wish I had the balls to call people out on the internet!!!

trolls are in no way welcome on the escapist. Please delete your account and never return, thank you.

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

The fact that this story had to be written upsets me. The "retakers" upset me. If they can say what they want to, I should be able to as well. And nobody is going to delete their account because some douche on the forums tells them to, so you can stop telling me to at any point.

While I am always for enforcing truth in advertising, this does seem kind of silly to me. Advertisers always promise the world for just $49.95 - and anyone with a brain has learned to ignore the advertisements.

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird, and it's in all these threads.

I knew something was wrong when I saw the beginning of Mass Effect 2, so I jumped ship on the series. Seems I avoided some bitter, salty tears.

Uh, well this is quite a surprise. Never thought someone "official" would agree with fans.

"The lesson to be learned here is companies should give careful consideration to how they word their advertisements."If you companies didn't get that from the outrage, she just gave it to you plain and simple.

*sigh* I can't stop myself from clicking on these ME3 threads, news or not. Must find a to stop!

AnarchistAbe:Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

We don't want [i]happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.

What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!

Rooster Cogburn:It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

The fact that this story had to be written upsets me. The "retakers" upset me. If they can say what they want to, I should be able to as well. And nobody is going to delete their account because some douche on the forums tells them to, so you can stop telling me to at any point.

this is a game news site you find news here you don't like it, go elsewhere. But the main fact is that this thread isn't about the "retakers" its about the legal fact of promising something then not doing it. that combined with the vastly insulting way in which you chose to express an otherwise perfectly valid point of view is what makes me say you are a troll and not the kind of person that belongs on the escapist. its the kind of thing you find on YouTube an immature and insulting way of saying an otherwise reasonable point of view. it is therefore easy to see that you are a troll who is at this very moment giggling as i foolishly reply again and again so i say again, go elsewhere. thank you

We don't want [i]happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.

What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!