I think it's FWD and the looks are very front heavy and awkward from some angles.

No matter, at that price point it should sell well. The cheap c230 bombed here a decade ago, this being a sedan should help.

Leslierc commented: January 22, 2013, 3:31 pm

Great comercial! Not a bad looking car IMO.

ND40oz commented: January 22, 2013, 3:37 pm

It's half the size of the 3er, it's competition is the 2er Gran Coupe.

SilverX3 commented: January 22, 2013, 3:37 pm

I am not a real fan of CLA but I am a real fan of Kate now

OMG ... she's awesome

RRRize commented: January 22, 2013, 3:47 pm

Cool looking car IMO. But they would have done themselves a favor by getting a girl who had some nice looking legs. When the commercial started and they panned the camera from down to up, I got the feeling it was gona be some kinda joke or comedy-that chix legs are unsexy. IMO.

Jamesonsviggen commented: January 22, 2013, 3:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRRize

Cool looking car IMO. But they would have done themselves a favor by getting a girl who had some nice looking legs. When the commercial started and they panned the camera from down to up, I got the feeling it was gona be some kinda joke or comedy-that chix legs are unsexy. IMO.

Yep, no hips or butt either. 2points for no fake'uns though.

Michael Schott commented: January 22, 2013, 3:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRRize

Cool looking car IMO. But they would have done themselves a favor by getting a girl who had some nice looking legs. When the commercial started and they panned the camera from down to up, I got the feeling it was gona be some kinda joke or comedy-that chix legs are unsexy. IMO.

Kate Upton is about the hottest woman on Earth and her legs are fine.

As far as the car, it looks to be an upscale VW CC, Acura TSX competitor not a serious 3 series competitor. You need RWD to play in that class.

beden1 commented: January 22, 2013, 3:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslierc

Great comercial! Not a bad looking car IMO.

What car?

sr5959 commented: January 22, 2013, 3:59 pm

I just checked out more pics of the CLA at mbusa site, and it looks fantastic! Makes the new G and IS look even worse...I'd definitely consider this for my next car...Kate Upton looks rather nice too...

Great looking car. Too small for me, but if they start this under 30k it will squeeze the VW Jetta and become the new top selling entry level German car. The looks are just perfect. I think this looks better than the CLS and the smaller body works better on this design IMHO.

SamS commented: January 22, 2013, 5:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Great looking car. Too small for me, but if they start this under 30k it will squeeze the VW Jetta and become the new top selling entry level German car. The looks are just perfect. I think this looks better than the CLS and the smaller body works better on this design IMHO.

I like it all except that crease that droop at the rear doors. Other than that, MB has made a pretty interesting looking car. It's too small for me, as well. With two kids, the F30 is really as a small as I can go.

sayzar commented: January 22, 2013, 5:27 pm

not bad looking way better looking than the Lexus IS, lets see what Audi pulls out in 2 years when they up grade the A4 look. there is a reason why BMW 3series as won top 10 cars since 1992. 328i xdrive cold weather package lighting package premium package

I think BMW should get Kate in its commercial so people here don't drool over the CLA. The question is, what BMW version can get Kate excited and rub against it? The F30 maybe too boring to think she would do it.

DerekS commented: January 22, 2013, 11:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripred

The only "Mercedes" part I see is a front grille... The rest looks like it was designed by some Asian company. Not that it's a bad thing, just not something I personally like.

Yes, I would agree ! The hockey-stick turn signals don't help either.

SilverX3 commented: January 23, 2013, 12:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100

I think BMW should get Kate in its commercial so people here don't drool over the CLA. The question is,what BMW version can get Kate excited and rub against it? The F30 maybe too boring to think she would do it.

it will be my BMW and will be me as driver when Kate gets excited

bmw_or_audi commented: January 23, 2013, 12:08 am

VW copied the MB CLS when designing the CC. Now MB copied back to come up with the FWD CLA. This car may not be in the same class as the 3 in terms of traditional classification, but it should have high appeal among the younger crowd and it will take away some sales from the 3, but also some from the C class.

dtc100 commented: January 23, 2013, 12:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverX3

it will be my BMW and will be me as driver when Kate gets excited

X3? You need to have her bear several of your children before she will pay attention to it. But that's putting cart before the horse if you know what I mean.

BMW 2 Series Grand Coupe Concept artist rendering - if it looks this good, I don't know who would actually buy an F30. Keep in mind that it is only a rendering and it can turn out to be a miniature 3 series GT.

or the 1 series

SilverX3 commented: January 23, 2013, 2:05 am

what a choice we have

vs (2 series Grand Coupe)

vs A3 sedan

vs

sf_loft commented: January 23, 2013, 2:23 am

^^ IS is not in the same class. That's an F30, C, and A4 competitor. The 2 series grand coupe is just an artist rendering and no camo 2 series grand coupe has been seen. So it's just speculation of what a BMW fan wish it was like.

sf_loft commented: January 23, 2013, 2:30 am

I should say that this is BMW's answer to the small 4 door coupe line.

hans007 commented: January 23, 2013, 3:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf_loft

^^ IS is not in the same class. That's an F30, C, and A4 competitor. The 2 series grand coupe is just an artist rendering and no camo 2 series grand coupe has been seen. So it's just speculation of what a BMW fan wish it was like.

I don't think the 2 series grancoupe will compete necessarily well. I'd personally live it because its rwd. But the a3 and cla by nature of being fwd will have much more interior space.

I'd figure most regular people will go for it. Which is another reason the 320i is here now. The car may be larger outside but it probably has similar interior space to a3 and cla. Most car buyers have no idea what rwd matters for and probably some even prefer fwd especially in snow States. Everyone can compare interior space. So the 320i really is also an a3 / cla alternative.

No one said there has to be an exact comparable car to a competitor. If you compete by overlap then so be it. BMW might be right here or its a stopgap until they can bring something else out

ND40oz commented: January 23, 2013, 8:50 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf_loft

I should say that this is BMW's answer to the small 4 door coupe line.

Wow. Just. Wow. Now I know what it's like to get a right to the jaw and feel your knees buckle.

Prost commented: January 23, 2013, 11:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100

I think BMW should get Kate in its commercial so people here don't drool over the CLA. The question is, what BMW version can get Kate excited and rub against it? The F30 maybe too boring to think she would do it.

New F80/82 M3/M4

Alpine300ZHP commented: January 23, 2013, 12:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sf_loft

I should say that this is BMW's answer to the small 4 door coupe line.

This is just awful. I hope this does not make it to production. If so it will follow the 5 GT as a sales disaster.

sf_loft commented: January 23, 2013, 12:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

This is just awful. I hope this does not make it to production. If so it will follow the 5 GT as a sales disaster.

Those are live photos in L.A. during a commercial shoot. So it's coming.

Didn't you read my post above? I meant the Cat Daddy video has nothing to do with Mercedes...plenty of car companies use sexy girls in their ads.

BMW has lots of attractive models at the Detroit Auto Show right now....they don't know d!ck about the cars, ask them what an F30 is....

But they have a few memorized lines about the key features of the car...

If you asked them what a kidney grill is, or the hofmeister kink, they'd probably slap you across the face.

donquixotesque commented: January 23, 2013, 9:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotman

No, I've been a member of this forum for 7 years, and you have what, 43 posts?

I'm not a CLA lover, or a Lexus IS fan, or a "troll".

I've been on this website for a long time, check my post count and join date. How many euro deliveries have you done?

I've got 4 under my belt.

In any event, I'm not a typical b-fest member in that I evaluate each car on its merits....and I welcome the competition...competition is good for BMW.

Audi, MB, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti etc. all bring something a little different to the table, as far as performance, reliability, technology, styling, etc...

I personally like the CLA....its a very interesting design, more so than the rehashed 3 series design. Its FWD, and small, and these are two very big strikes against it.

Sorry but does your post count justify you to be a jerk?

Ripred commented: January 23, 2013, 10:05 pm

Oh look... People already telling each other to leave this thread because of difference of opinion, calling each other jerks and measuring their e-penis sizes ("I did over 9000 Euro Deliveries and my post count is like, a lot!")... Nice thread you have here, girls!

boltjaM3s commented: January 23, 2013, 10:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotman

Didn't you read my post above? I meant the Cat Daddy video has nothing to do with Mercedes...plenty of car companies use sexy girls in their ads.

BMW has lots of attractive models at the Detroit Auto Show right now....they don't know d!ck about the cars, ask them what an F30 is...

But they have a few memorized lines about the key features of the car...

If you asked them what a kidney grill is, or the hofmeister kink, they'd probably slap you across the face.

Sorry....misunderstood the context of your comment.

Kate Upton aside, that's one hell of a departure of an ad campaign for Mercedes Benz.

BJ

chiba commented: January 23, 2013, 10:27 pm

The New CLA is beautiful! Worlds nicer than their current C.. Good Job Mercedes, I look forward to seeing these on the road.

That video however was kind of lame. No where near as entertaining as the Kat Daddy youtube vid.

BMW220i commented: January 23, 2013, 11:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PK2348

its FWD. Not in the same class

That might be true with a small number of drivers. However, lots of people buy BMW because they think it's a "good German car" and don't know very much about cars. Go to Los Angeles where there are lots of BMW and interview drivers as they get out of their cars. Most will not know much about cars, FWD, tires, etc.

The CLA is made in Hungary. U.S. 3 series are made in Germany and South Africa. Some are made in India but those are not imported to the U.S., at least not now.

I think it's good if Mercedes and other companies build cars almost as good or better than BMW. That keeps BMW on its toes. If not, then BMW would charge $75,000 for a 3 series. Don't laugh, they cost more than that in Singapore and Norway, though it's because of taxes.

EddieB commented: January 23, 2013, 11:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayzar

not bad looking way better looking than the Lexus IS, lets see what Audi pulls out in 2 years when they up grade the A4 look. there is a reason why BMW 3series as won top 10 cars since 1992. 328i xdrive cold weather package lighting package premium package

And it is not because of front license plates :-)

dtc100 commented: January 23, 2013, 11:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

CLA looks to have suffered a stroke as some parts of it have begun to just randomly droop.

For people who do not like the look of the CLA, I wonder if their ages play a part. If a middle aged person says he does not like the look of the CLA, MB probably will thank him, because it is clear to me the CLA is aimed at younger crowds, such as those who just graduated from a econo beater with a large muffler, and now have a decent job and is growing up.

beden1 commented: January 23, 2013, 11:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100

For people who do not like the look of the CLA, I wonder if their ages play a part. If a middle aged person says he does not like the look of the CLA, MB probably will thank him, because it is clear to me the CLA is aimed at younger crowds, such as those who just graduated from a econo beater with a large muffler, and now have a decent job and is growing up.

I guess I'm an old guy, but I really like the looks of this new Mercedes.

dtc100 commented: January 24, 2013, 12:39 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

I guess I'm an old guy, but I really like the looks of this new Mercedes.

Of course you can like it, I am not part of the younger crowds anymore, and I like the CLA myself because I think the style suits it's targeted market, even though I don't see myself driving one.

I think BJ likes it too, after all he started this thread. Although we each may have different reasons to like the CLA. BJ likes it probably because his young girlfriend likes it.

LarryboysUDM commented: January 24, 2013, 12:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

What car?

Exactly

boltjaM3s commented: January 24, 2013, 1:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100

I think BJ likes it too, after all he started this thread. Although we each may have different reasons to like the CLA. BJ likes it probably because his young girlfriend likes it.

I have no girlfriend as that would be disrespectful to the trophy wife.

That said, the CLA will most definitely be a preferred purchase for exotic dancers across America and there's nothing but respect there.

BJ

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: January 24, 2013, 2:22 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100

Of course you can like it, I am not part of the younger crowds anymore, and I like the CLA myself because I think the style suits it's targeted market, even though I don't see myself driving one.

I think BJ likes it too, after all he started this thread. Although we each may have different reasons to like the CLA. BJ likes it probably because his young girlfriend likes it.

BJ got the Limited Edition Trophy Wife Package. How could you of missed it? It's just another special edition from BMW, except BMW only made one of these. Add that to the 100,000 other special editions that BMW rolled out.

Michael Schott commented: January 24, 2013, 9:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

I guess I'm an old guy, but I really like the looks of this new Mercedes.

Same here, definitely middle age and the CLA is beautiful.

donquixotesque commented: January 24, 2013, 9:36 am

Wonder what people are considering to be "middle age" these days?

pilotman commented: January 24, 2013, 10:20 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Same here, definitely middle age and the CLA is beautiful.

I'm 38, and agree.

I don't think people give the CLA enough credit.

It is VERY difficult to release a fresh, different design like this, as opposed to what BMW is doing with the 3 series....

Don't get me wrong, the three is a nice car, very pleasant, but BMW plays it very safe and conservative with their styling.

Its a pro and con...they can't deviate too far from what people love...but they will always be evolutionary.

donquixotesque commented: January 24, 2013, 10:23 am

Showed the ad to my girlfriend last night. And the other Upton videos too of course. She loved the CLA. I can see it as her next car.

chris328 commented: January 24, 2013, 11:12 am

it's ugly (looks like a ford focus) and judging by that video, they are attempting to reach the intellectual market.

BMW220i commented: January 24, 2013, 11:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Same here, definitely middle age and the CLA is beautiful.

One of the best looking cars to me is the 1999 BMW 5 series. Nice lines and a body side molding to reduce some dings. Now very few cars have them. The 2004 3 series also looks nice.

CALWATERBOY commented: January 24, 2013, 12:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRRize

Cool looking car IMO. But they would have done themselves a favor by getting a girl who had some nice looking legs. When the commercial started and they panned the camera from down to up, I got the feeling it was gona be some kinda joke or comedy-that chix legs are unsexy. IMO.

Affirmative. Diff to see what's exciting there.

EddieB commented: January 24, 2013, 12:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW220i

One of the best looking cars to me is the 1999 BMW 5 series. Nice lines and a body side molding to reduce some dings. Now very few cars have them. The 2004 3 series also looks nice.

You meant the E39? That was my first BMW, 2001 530i. I loved that car.

MMME30W commented: January 24, 2013, 1:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotman

No, I've been a member of this forum for 7 years, and you have what, 43 posts?

I'm not a CLA lover, or a Lexus IS fan, or a "troll".

I've been on this website for a long time, check my post count and join date.

2K posts? Noob.

J/K

MMME30W commented: January 24, 2013, 1:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRRize

Cool looking car IMO. But they would have done themselves a favor by getting a girl who had some nice looking legs. When the commercial started and they panned the camera from down to up, I got the feeling it was gona be some kinda joke or comedy-that chix legs are unsexy. IMO.

Seriously?

chris328 commented: January 24, 2013, 1:32 pm

just call Kate Upton hot, she wont be in like 1 or 2 years after being traded around the NFL and corporate call girl enthusiasts.

SilverX3 commented: January 24, 2013, 1:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by donquixotesque

Wonder what people are considering to be "middle age" these days?

50 is the new 40

EddieB commented: January 24, 2013, 2:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverX3

50 is the new 40

Nah, 60 is the new 40.

beden1 commented: January 24, 2013, 3:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieB

Nah, 60 is the new 40.

Living to 120? That would be probably 30+ years without a drivers license. No thanks!

dtc100 commented: January 24, 2013, 3:19 pm

How about 90 is the new 50, after which I wish to just kick the bucket. Any of you with me?

SilverX3 commented: January 24, 2013, 3:39 pm

I am with you

pkim1079 commented: January 24, 2013, 4:00 pm

With 4matic and benz options this thing could be up to $50k USD. These commercials never show the

pkim1079 commented: January 24, 2013, 4:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris328

just call Kate Upton hot, she wont be in like 1 or 2 years after being traded around the NFL and corporate call girl enthusiasts.

Only thing great about her are her ****. She has stick legs no hips and a chubby girls face. I wonder if she used to be a fat girl lost weight but kept the **** lol. There are plenty of other SI models hotter than her. Put it on your flipboard !

408Racer commented: January 24, 2013, 5:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieB

You meant the E39? That was my first BMW, 2001 530i. I loved that car.

My first car was my dad's old '97 540!

beden1 commented: January 24, 2013, 5:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Only thing great about her are her ****. She has stick legs no hips and a chubby girls face. I wonder if she used to be a fat girl lost weight but kept the **** lol. There are plenty of other SI models hotter than her. Put it on your flipboard !

I wouldn't kick her out of bed by any means!

EddieB commented: January 24, 2013, 6:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 408Racer

My first car was my dad's old '97 540!

What's weird is my 530i seemed plenty powerful at 228hp, and I drooled over the 540i's 282 horses, and here the new 3er has over 300hp.

Don't be so quick to judge. MB has taken huge strides in the driving dynamics department.

In what cars? I haven't experienced that in either the current C Class or E Class. In fact, I think Merc should be downright embarrassed by the E Class' handling. Sorry, don't have much hope for a new FWD model that will only offer four banger motors.

mr29 commented: February 4, 2013, 1:23 am

starting at 29 k not a bad looking car.I'll stick with BMW though.i can see this car doin pretty well

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: February 4, 2013, 1:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Like what? I have driven both the new C250 coupe and sedan. Both way to soft to be considered sport imo. Much softer than my 335.

The C350, C63 AMG, and E63 AMG have all made huge strides. MB is pretty darn close.

tturedraider commented: February 4, 2013, 1:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

The C350, C63 AMG, and E63 AMG have all made huge strides. MB is pretty darn close.

I haven't driven any AMG models and in my book they don't really count. I'm interested in the models manufacturers make that everyday people buy. (Everyday people by high-end auto consumer standards.) If I have to go to the most expensive, top line model to get the driving dynamics I'm looking for I'm not interested in that car. Mercedes builds nice cars, there is no doubt about that. And the C Class is a nice car, but it is a far cry from offering the equivalent driving dynamics of the 3 Series. Fun, satisfying, confidence inspiring driving dynamics is at the top of my list and I would take any 3 Series over the C350 any day.

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: February 4, 2013, 2:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I had a radio flyer wagon was I was a kid that was softer than my 335 (when it had the RFTs and the crap OEM shocks).

CA

tturedraider commented: February 4, 2013, 2:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moatsy

Seems like they are looking to fill a hole in the poser market...

+1 - people were ragging on the up coming 320i as being for badge whores. That is the only thing this CLA is for - people who desperately want that Three Pointed Star on the front of their car. The CLA is clearly aimed at attracting Honda Accord buyers.

mr29 commented: February 4, 2013, 2:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

+1 - people were ragging on the up coming 320i as being for badge whores. That is the only thing this CLA is for - people who desperately want that Three Pointed Star on the front of their car. The CLA is clearly aimed at attracting Honda Accord buyers.

this is the first thing i thought

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: February 4, 2013, 2:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

+1 - people were ragging on the up coming 320i as being for badge whores. That is the only thing this CLA is for - people who desperately want that Three Pointed Star on the front of their car. The CLA is clearly aimed at attracting Honda Accord buyers.

What's wrong with that? You say it like it's a bad thing. The same could be said about the 328i M-Sport, which is aimed at attracting Honda,Evo,and Subaru ricers that want a fake M badge. The fact of the matter is, it's how MB is going to expand it's market. This is the reason the 4 series Gran Coupe is going to be released. It probably won't be able to compete with the CLA in terms of price point either.

pilotman commented: February 4, 2013, 8:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

+1 - people were ragging on the up coming 320i as being for badge whores. That is the only thing this CLA is for - people who desperately want that Three Pointed Star on the front of their car. The CLA is clearly aimed at attracting Honda Accord buyers.

I don't understand this position at all.

People buy cars for different reasons. A lot of enthusiasts aren't interested in big power, but the great handling and planted feel BMWs are known for....many so called enthusiasts on here claim they would love a 320....

My first BMW was 2004 325 sedan with sport package and heated seats, manual transmission. Man I miss that car....sure it only had 184hp...but it handled so well....and was so buttoned down.

Why isn't ok for someone to buy the CLA because it offers a different driving experience than a Honda Accord?

It will feel different....and the interior is much better, pretty nice interior design.

Sure there are those who only buy based on badge, but not everyone.....

Stavrs commented: February 4, 2013, 9:51 am

Having a CLS I can't say I love the idea that there are going to be bunches of micro CLSs. On the other hand you have to give it to Mercedes for introducing something new in this segment and at the very least keeping things interesting.

johnc_22 commented: February 4, 2013, 10:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

+1 - people were ragging on the up coming 320i as being for badge whores. That is the only thing this CLA is for - people who desperately want that Three Pointed Star on the front of their car. The CLA is clearly aimed at attracting Honda Accord buyers.

The same can be said of the soon to be FWD 1 series. If MB offers this size car with AWD and typical fit & finish it may be a winner.

pilotman commented: February 4, 2013, 10:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stavrs

Having a CLS I can't say I love the idea that there are going to be bunches of micro CLSs. On the other hand you have to give it to Mercedes for introducing something new in this segment and at the very least keeping things interesting.

exactly!

Love it or hate it, you have to give them credit for going out on a limb and offering a "budget" Mercedes with a pretty bold design.

BMW is playing a much safer route with its evolutionary style and "neutered" 320 offering.

Both are fine cars, but very different. That's what makes the world go around.

Michael Schott commented: February 4, 2013, 11:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

The C350, C63 AMG, and E63 AMG have all made huge strides. MB is pretty darn close.

Of course the AMG cars handle well, they compete with BMW's M division. The C350, not so much and no MT option.

Michael Schott commented: February 4, 2013, 11:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stavrs

Having a CLS I can't say I love the idea that there are going to be bunches of micro CLSs. On the other hand you have to give it to Mercedes for introducing something new in this segment and at the very least keeping things interesting.

I think this will be a home run for MB. It's a great looking car at a very attractive price. And it's an entry level Benz.

Now THAT is a good looking car. I'd definitely consider it when it's time to move on from my 3-er, of course depending on how it drives. I'd also look at the ATS.

True, lots of competition for the 3 series these days.

SamS commented: February 4, 2013, 3:02 pm

It does look pretty good, especially for a car that will be in the low $40s, loaded up. Good commercials help too!

patrick_y commented: February 4, 2013, 3:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

The C350, C63 AMG, and E63 AMG have all made huge strides. MB is pretty darn close.

In total agreement with -=Hot|Ice=-, the Mercedes-Benz cars are very good and are indeed close competitors. The C250 and C350 are great cars that handle differently from BMWs, but still handle very well. A touch light on the steering, and a touch slow on the steering rack (maybe a faster ratio would help) but excellent cars overall. The C63 is tremendous and I have a hard time determining whether I like the C63 more or the BMW M3 more...

I think a lot of people on this forum have drank the BMW Kool-Aid and don't realize that other brands have their strong points as well. Good to see another forum member who isn't steeply biased.

If we bought cars simply by merit and not image, we might all be buying a Cadillac in a few years. With the way they're advancing Cadillac may actually be making the superior vehicle in less than 10 years.

EddieB commented: February 4, 2013, 3:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick_y

In total agreement with -=Hot|Ice=-, the Mercedes-Benz cars are very good and are indeed close competitors. The C250 and C350 are great cars that handle differently from BMWs, but still handle very well. A touch light on the steering, and a touch slow on the steering rack (maybe a faster ratio would help) but excellent cars overall. The C63 is tremendous and I have a hard time determining whether I like the C63 more or the BMW M3 more...

I think a lot of people on this forum have drank the BMW Kool-Aid and don't realize that other brands have their strong points as well. Good to see another forum member who isn't steeply biased.

If we bought cars simply by merit and not image, we might all be buying a Cadillac in a few years. With the way they're advancing Cadillac may actually be making the superior vehicle in less than 10 years.

If BMW discontinues manual transmissions I'll look at VW.

patrick_y commented: February 4, 2013, 4:10 pm

They eventually will (but this may be 10+ years away), but they'll be among the slower ones to discontinue it in the luxury market.

They were the last to discontinue it in the large car market. The 7-Series (with smaller engines) still had a stickshift in European markets through the late 1990s. With the new 7 Series introduced in the US as a 2002 Model Year, I believe that body style was never offered in a stick again (worldwide).

If BMW stops offering stick, I'd get the automatic or SMG. Most VWs are FWD so I would prefer a RWD car.

Not sure if all these will make it over to the US - but looks like they're targeting the 320, 328, and 335 with these trims and engine specs.

They're not targeting the 3 series at all. Mercedes-Benz is creating a new market and going downrange with it. The BMW 3 series will continue to compete with the C-Class. BMW will likely come out with a 2-series Grand Coupe to compete with the CLA. If the 2-series Grand Coupe is indeed rear wheel drive (as it currently seems to be) I think the 2 will be a significantly better value than the CLA.

captainaudio commented: February 4, 2013, 5:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick_y

In total agreement with -=Hot|Ice=-, the Mercedes-Benz cars are very good and are indeed close competitors. The C250 and C350 are great cars that handle differently from BMWs, but still handle very well. A touch light on the steering, and a touch slow on the steering rack (maybe a faster ratio would help) but excellent cars overall. The C63 is tremendous and I have a hard time determining whether I like the C63 more or the BMW M3 more...

I think a lot of people on this forum have drank the BMW Kool-Aid and don't realize that other brands have their strong points as well. Good to see another forum member who isn't steeply biased.

If we bought cars simply by merit and not image, we might all be buying a Cadillac in a few years. With the way they're advancing Cadillac may actually be making the superior vehicle in less than 10 years.

I had a C250 Rental in Florida for a month. It was a very nice car but did not drive as well as either my 335i or 750Lix. I think a lot of buyers in the segment would be very happy with the C250. The one we rented was a base model so I suppose I would have to compare it to a base F30 to make a fair comparison. Hertz had an E63 AMG available, it was tempting but it was just too expensive to rent for a month.

CA

Jamesonsviggen commented: February 4, 2013, 5:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobechrome

Up to the 250 I can believe... but the CLA AMG - they're going to squeeze 350hp/tq out of a 4 banger?

There have been 300+hp 2.0l japanese cars lacking direct injection and other modern tricks for over ten years now. With larger 2.5l engines, direct injection, vvt etc, don't see an extra 50hp being a problem.

Remember our 2.5l STI for example is 2.0l in Japan. They have higher power levels of the Evo and Sti than we ever got here. They had an Evo FQ360-400 which made big power.

tturedraider commented: February 4, 2013, 7:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kobechrome

Up to the 250 I can believe... but the CLA AMG - they're going to squeeze 350hp/tq out of a 4 banger?

Yeap. No six, No RWD...No care. On the other hand does anyone have any new scoop on the 2 series?

sr5959 commented: February 4, 2013, 7:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I had a C250 Rental in Florida for a month. It was a very nice car but did not drive as well as either my 335i or 750Lix. I think a lot of buyers in the segment would be very happy with the C250. The one we rented was a base model so I suppose I would have to compare it to a base F30 to make a fair comparison. Hertz had an E63 AMG available, it was tempting but it was just too expensive to rent for a month.

CA

I agree the C250 is a very nice car; I was very, very close to buying one (Sport model) but the F30 just arrived at my dealer that day and I signed the papers after one test drive of a base model!

tturedraider commented: February 4, 2013, 7:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5959

I agree the C250 is a very nice car; I was very, very close to buying one (Sport model) but the F30 just arrived at my dealer that day and I signed the papers after one test drive of a base model!

To me this is just the fundamental difference between BMW and other brands. I can't even count the number of times people have made posts like this on Bimmerfest. Maybe people make posts like this on other forums, but I have a hard time envisioning it - was planning to buy the BMW 328i, but after I drove the C250 I signed the papers then and there and drove it home - maybe it happens, but I just doubt it happens with anywhere near the same frequency that it happens the other way around.

Small point of empirical evidence, at least to the greater enthusiasm of BMW owners - the BMW Car Club of America is the largest car club in the country and has over 75,000 members.

One other tidbit - Neither Mercedes nor Audi operate a Performance Driving Center in the U.S. like BMW does.

Not sure if all these will make it over to the US - but looks like they're targeting the 320, 328, and 335 with these trims and engine specs.

122hp????

Good lord. That thing will be so slow it will be a traffic hazard.

EddieB commented: February 4, 2013, 8:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick_y

They eventually will (but this may be 10+ years away), but they'll be among the slower ones to discontinue it in the luxury market.

They were the last to discontinue it in the large car market. The 7-Series (with smaller engines) still had a stickshift in European markets through the late 1990s. With the new 7 Series introduced in the US as a 2002 Model Year, I believe that body style was never offered in a stick again (worldwide).

If BMW stops offering stick, I'd get the automatic or SMG. Most VWs are FWD so I would prefer a RWD car.

So the Passat is FWD? What would be the "equivalent" of a 3er?

bmw_or_audi commented: February 4, 2013, 9:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Only thing great about her are her ****. She has stick legs no hips and a chubby girls face.

She stands out among the girls precisely because she doesn't have any of these:
1. super toned stringy body
2. leathery skin on bones because of too much dieting
3. stretched leathery tan skin because of face lift
4. plastic surgery/collagen injection duck lips
5. plastic bolt-on boobs

just google search her name and look at the bio pic google brings up on the upper right. She does have a beautiful face and beautiful eyes. Oh, I forgot about not having the classical nose job. She is probably not for everyone because of all those things. So she is not from the same old mold and that works to her advantage for a sizeable audience.

smashhell commented: February 5, 2013, 4:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxlrod

122hp????

Good lord. That thing will be so slow it will be a traffic hazard.

Yeah seriously? 122hp in a Merc. Is it going to be the slowest Benz ever? And a 4 cylinder in an AMG?

Yeah seriously? 122hp in a Merc. Is it going to be the slowest Benz ever? And a 4 cylinder in an AMG?

I doubt this engine is coming to the US. There are slow BMW's Mercedes and the like all over Europe. They are used as taxi's. In the US we nearly always get the highest HP versions.

Jamesonsviggen commented: February 5, 2013, 2:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

I doubt this engine is coming to the US. There are slow BMW's Mercedes and the like all over Europe. They are used as taxi's. In the US we nearly always get the highest HP versions.

Ding ding ding!

patrick_y commented: February 5, 2013, 2:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieB

So the Passat is FWD? What would be the "equivalent" of a 3er?

The member I was replying to mentioned that if BMW stopped offering sticks, he'd get a VW.

Personally, I'm not keen on procuring any VW, mainly because I would prefer RWD cars such as BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

I guess a good competitive vehicle from VW to BMW would be the Toureg Vs the X5. The Phaeton if it's still sold in the States would be a potential competitor to the 7 series.
Otherwise, I don't consider the Passat a good competitor to the 3er.

Jamesonsviggen commented: February 5, 2013, 3:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick_y

The member I was replying to mentioned that if BMW stopped offering sticks, he'd get a VW.

Personally, I'm not keen on procuring any VW, mainly because I would prefer RWD cars such as BMW or Mercedes-Benz.

I guess a good competitive vehicle from VW to BMW would be the Toureg Vs the X5. The Phaeton if it's still sold in the States would be a potential competitor to the 7 series.
Otherwise, I don't consider the Passat a good competitor to the 3er.

If anything, while still FWD at least have it be the CC against the 3.

The Golf TDI is a fun car to drive (with a stick), especially for the money.

EddieB commented: February 5, 2013, 7:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

The Golf TDI is a fun car to drive (with a stick), especially for the money.

I had a '79 Scirocco back in the day and I enjoyed it immensely. Same chassis/motor as the Golf (Rabbit back then).

beden1 commented: February 5, 2013, 11:58 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieB

I had a '79 Scirocco back in the day and I enjoyed it immensely. Same chassis/motor as the Golf (Rabbit back then).

It's interesting that many people fondly remember their earlier cars as being fun, and sometimes more so than their current cars. I think it's because many of those cars were lighter and simpler as compared to the late model 3 Series BMWs, for example.

mr_clueless commented: February 6, 2013, 2:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

It's interesting that many people fondly remember their earlier cars as being fun, and sometimes more so than their current cars. I think it's because many of those cars were lighter and simpler as compared to the late model 3 Series BMWs, for example.

I think there's a number of physiological and psychological factors at play too. When one is young, the senses are sharp. As we age and the senses deteriorate, we need more and more of whatever to re-create that sensation. Basically, one needs much more to be "wowed" and to overcome that feeling of "been there, done that". This is true for food, sightseeting, pay hikes, ...

It's interesting that many people fondly remember their earlier cars as being fun, and sometimes more so than their current cars. I think it's because many of those cars were lighter and simpler as compared to the late model 3 Series BMWs, for example.

Good topic. I had a 1979 Rabbit with a MT. I remember it being a blast to drive. However if we put these in a modern context they would lack the amenities we all take for granted. Not to mention the modern safety features. Today if we drove them they would seem loud and crude.

beden1 commented: February 6, 2013, 10:28 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Good topic. I had a 1979 Rabbit with a MT. I remember it being a blast to drive. However if we put these in a modern context they would lack the amenities we all take for granted. Not to mention the modern safety features. Today if we drove them they would seem loud and crude.

Safety features are definitely better in today's cars. Do we really need the amenities, or are we taking for granted that we need them? My cars have the amenities but I rarely use many of them.

I do use the radio.
I do use the power windows and side mirrors.
I don't use the power seats after setting them the first time.
I don't use the heated seats but my wife does.
I don't use comfort access.
It is a rare occasion that I use the GPS.
I hate the i-drive as it's too complicated. I mostly check it for the tires, systems and tripometer.(BMW's first tripometer system was better)
I hate the complicated shifter for the auto transmission. Pushing a button before moving the electronic shift knob is just dumb, IMO. Give me a manual mechanism anyday.
I could live without the trunk auto close feature.

I basically appreciate driving the car whenever I'm on the road, and regardless of where I'm going. I really don't need or use most of the "creature comforts".

I wish the car was lighter and more nimble.

K-A commented: February 6, 2013, 8:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

To me this is just the fundamental difference between BMW and other brands. I can't even count the number of times people have made posts like this on Bimmerfest. Maybe people make posts like this on other forums, but I have a hard time envisioning it - was planning to buy the BMW 328i, but after I drove the C250 I signed the papers then and there and drove it home - maybe it happens, but I just doubt it happens with anywhere near the same frequency that it happens the other way around.

Small point of empirical evidence, at least to the greater enthusiasm of BMW owners - the BMW Car Club of America is the largest car club in the country and has over 75,000 members.

One other tidbit - Neither Mercedes nor Audi operate a Performance Driving Center in the U.S. like BMW does.

I agree, and this is something that's become much of a revelation to me since being stuck into the Mercedes brand for so long. BMW goes the extra mile to really "wow" you, and I think a lot of why they're doing so well these days is because on things as simple as a test drive, you just find it hard to find what they offer, be it objectively or soulfully subjectively, elsewhere.

As for the C250, I think the facelift made it a very elegant car, but the drivetrain is a dog. I don't expect a sporty vibe nor ride when I drive a Mercedes, but the engine is so sluggish, it's not even near effortless. Not to mention, the sounds it makes aren't very flattering (especially at idle, however that's kind of par for the course for a lot of 4-Cylinders, iMO).

Driving an F30 328i is truly on another level, the car is sporty, yet still refined as well, the technology that comes with it, and again, the logic-defying performance (especially compared with the C250) just make it a vastly superior objectively engineered vehicle to the C250 equivalent.

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: February 6, 2013, 8:16 pm

Welcome to the Fest, KA.

mr29 commented: February 6, 2013, 8:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

I agree, and this is something that's become much of a revelation to me since being stuck into the Mercedes brand for so long. BMW goes the extra mile to really "wow" you, and I think a lot of why they're doing so well these days is because on things as simple as a test drive, you just find it hard to find what they offer, be it objectively or soulfully subjectively, elsewhere.

As for the C250, I think the facelift made it a very elegant car, but the drivetrain is a dog. I don't expect a sporty vibe nor ride when I drive a Mercedes, but the engine is so sluggish, it's not even near effortless. Not to mention, the sounds it makes aren't very flattering (especially at idle, however that's kind of par for the course for a lot of 4-Cylinders, iMO).

Driving an F30 328i is truly on another level, the car is sporty, yet still refined as well, the technology that comes with it, and again, the logic-defying performance (especially compared with the C250) just make it a vastly superior objectively engineered vehicle to the C250 equivalent.

very good post here

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: February 6, 2013, 8:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

I agree, and this is something that's become much of a revelation to me since being stuck into the Mercedes brand for so long. BMW goes the extra mile to really "wow" you, and I think a lot of why they're doing so well these days is because on things as simple as a test drive, you just find it hard to find what they offer, be it objectively or soulfully subjectively, elsewhere.

As for the C250, I think the facelift made it a very elegant car, but the drivetrain is a dog. I don't expect a sporty vibe nor ride when I drive a Mercedes, but the engine is so sluggish, it's not even near effortless. Not to mention, the sounds it makes aren't very flattering (especially at idle, however that's kind of par for the course for a lot of 4-Cylinders, iMO).

Driving an F30 328i is truly on another level, the car is sporty, yet still refined as well, the technology that comes with it, and again, the logic-defying performance (especially compared with the C250) just make it a vastly superior objectively engineered vehicle to the C250 equivalent.

Mercedes does have a performance driving school except they call it the AMG Academy. Welcome to the 'Fest, KA.

K-A commented: February 6, 2013, 8:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

Mercedes does have a performance driving school except they call it the AMG Academy. Welcome to the 'Fest, KA.

Thank you, sir. Love it here.

I was actually signed up for one of the AMG driving thingies, but overslept.

sr5959 commented: February 6, 2013, 8:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

Safety features are definitely better in today's cars. Do we really need the amenities, or are we taking for granted that we need them? My cars have the amenities but I rarely use many of them.

I do use the radio.
I do use the power windows and side mirrors.
I don't use the power seats after setting them the first time.
I don't use the heated seats but my wife does.
I don't use comfort access.
It is a rare occasion that I use the GPS.
I hate the i-drive as it's too complicated. I mostly check it for the tires, systems and tripometer.(BMW's first tripometer system was better)
I hate the complicated shifter for the auto transmission. Pushing a button before moving the electronic shift knob is just dumb, IMO. Give me a manual mechanism anyday.
I could live without the trunk auto close feature.

I basically appreciate driving the car whenever I'm on the road, and regardless of where I'm going. I really don't need or use most of the "creature comforts".

I wish the car was lighter and more nimble.

Funny I was just thinking last night I wish the F30 had an auto-close on the trunk!

mr_clueless commented: February 6, 2013, 9:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

Thank you, sir. Love it here.

I was actually signed up for one of the AMG driving thingies, but overslept.

Did they give you a refund?

smashhell commented: February 6, 2013, 9:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

Safety features are definitely better in today's cars. Do we really need the amenities, or are we taking for granted that we need them? My cars have the amenities but I rarely use many of them.

I do use the radio.
I do use the power windows and side mirrors.
I don't use the power seats after setting them the first time.
I don't use the heated seats but my wife does.
I don't use comfort access.
It is a rare occasion that I use the GPS.
I hate the i-drive as it's too complicated. I mostly check it for the tires, systems and tripometer.(BMW's first tripometer system was better)
I hate the complicated shifter for the auto transmission. Pushing a button before moving the electronic shift knob is just dumb, IMO. Give me a manual mechanism anyday.
I could live without the trunk auto close feature.

I basically appreciate driving the car whenever I'm on the road, and regardless of where I'm going. I really don't need or use most of the "creature comforts".

I wish the car was lighter and more nimble.

Funny because I use each and every single one of them.

mr_clueless commented: February 6, 2013, 11:21 pm

Quote:

but after I drove the C250 I signed the papers then and there and drove it home - maybe it happens, but I just doubt it happens with anywhere near the same frequency that it happens the other way around.

The thing that bothered me most about the C350 coupe was I could never adjust the driver's side mirror like I'm used to (in such a way that I could see just beyond the car with my head nearly leaning on the driver's side window). I checked with the guys on mbworld.org and pretty much everyone said they had the same problem. I found it weird that the mirror just didn't have enough of a range of motion to be able to avoid blind spots.

K-A commented: February 7, 2013, 12:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

Did they give you a refund?

Maybe I'm talking about something different. It wasn't the "driving academy" actually, I was invited by AMG to drive the crap out of their cars on a race track.

tturedraider commented: February 7, 2013, 1:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

Mercedes does have a performance driving school except they call it the AMG Academy. Welcome to the 'Fest, KA.

Yes, they operate the "driving academy" (at least $500 a pop), but they have not made the investment of building their own facility. That being the case they ,of course, do not offer any kind of Performance Center Delivery program.

gazlau commented: February 7, 2013, 1:59 am

personally the CLA does not appeal to me. can see where MB is heading with the a-class and the cla - tapping into the pool of buyers who would have considered something like a VW but now giving it a second thought with the prices of the MB being within their reach!

-=Hot|Ice=- commented: February 7, 2013, 2:04 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Yes, they operate the "driving academy" (at least $500 a pop), but they have not made the investment of building their own facility. That being the case they ,of course, do not offer any kind of Performance Center Delivery program.

No, they have not buy the benefit to that is that AMG had contracts with two tracks, one on the East and one on the West. Another benefit to that is you're on a professional circuit. One designed for racing. Not something that was put together to be a 'racetrack'.

mr_clueless commented: February 7, 2013, 2:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

No, they have not buy the benefit to that is that AMG had contracts with two tracks, one on the East and one on the West. Another benefit to that is you're on a professional circuit. One designed for racing. Not something that was put together to be a 'racetrack'.

Audi's program is similar and is offered at Infineon. http://microsites.audiusa.com/ngw/09...ng_experience/
I attended their 1/2-day S-class course (because it was nearby) in 2009 and it was a lot of fun. I drove the S5 which had the V8 back then. Was my first and only track experience and it made me realize how hard tracking is on the car.

K-A commented: February 7, 2013, 6:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotman

I'm 38, and agree.

I don't think people give the CLA enough credit.

It is VERY difficult to release a fresh, different design like this, as opposed to what BMW is doing with the 3 series....

Don't get me wrong, the three is a nice car, very pleasant, but BMW plays it very safe and conservative with their styling.

Its a pro and con...they can't deviate too far from what people love...but they will always be evolutionary.

I'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-Series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The CLA is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-Series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the CLA are awful proportions due to a stubby FWD chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-Series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a FWD Econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-Cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-Series (or C-Class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a Lancer Evo, but don't want a Mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently Economy-Car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the CLA IF it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the Mercedes brand, although it's a FWD car starting under $30K, would force the C-Class and its 3-Series rival to move up in public perception.

K-A commented: February 7, 2013, 6:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider

In what cars? I haven't experienced that in either the current C Class or E Class. In fact, I think Merc should be downright embarrassed by the E Class' handling. Sorry, don't have much hope for a new FWD model that will only offer four banger motors.

Funny you mention that. I never had a problem with the exaggerated body roll of my W212 "Sport", since I got my M-B for what I feel M-B is about; wafting, luxurious ride.... which in turn is what made me feel l like I needed to get rid of it and move on (also, the ride wasn't as luxurious as one would hope for.... especially from a car that has so much body roll)....

.... but my friend who was driving my W212 E-Class, who I was following in my F10 M Sport on the way home from the Dealer, at a couple of points almost swerved into another lane, which had me flipped.... he later told me "that car handles like an old Cadillac! I almost got into accidents 'cause of the body roll!". I couldn't believe hearing that from him, considering how acclimated to its driving I've been, and considering his personal car was a beater.

Jamesonsviggen commented: February 7, 2013, 9:00 am

Qft

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-a

i'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The cla is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the cla are awful proportions due to a stubby fwd chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a fwd econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-series (or c-class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a lancer evo, but don't want a mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently economy-car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the cla if it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the mercedes brand, although it's a fwd car starting under $30k, would force the c-class and its 3-series rival to move up in public perception.

beden1 commented: February 7, 2013, 10:16 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

Funny you mention that. I never had a problem with the exaggerated body roll of my W212 "Sport", since I got my M-B for what I feel M-B is about; wafting, luxurious ride.... which in turn is what made me feel l like I needed to get rid of it and move on (also, the ride wasn't as luxurious as one would hope for.... especially from a car that has so much body roll)....

.... but my friend who was driving my W212 E-Class, who I was following in my F10 M Sport on the way home from the Dealer, at a couple of points almost swerved into another lane, which had me flipped.... he later told me "that car handles like an old Cadillac! I almost got into accidents 'cause of the body roll!". I couldn't believe hearing that from him, considering how acclimated to its driving I've been, and considering his personal car was a beater.

I had an F10 as a loaner for the day. The handling is softer, less sure footed, and there is noticeable body roll as compared to my wife's E60 535xi (ours without the sport suspension). So, the Mercedes E-Class must feel like a boat (I have not driven a Mercedes since our 2004 S600 which handled extremely well).

Michael Schott commented: February 7, 2013, 11:20 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

I'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-Series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The CLA is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-Series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the CLA are awful proportions due to a stubby FWD chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-Series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a FWD Econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-Cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-Series (or C-Class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a Lancer Evo, but don't want a Mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently Economy-Car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the CLA IF it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the Mercedes brand, although it's a FWD car starting under $30K, would force the C-Class and its 3-Series rival to move up in public perception.

Have to disagree. Mercedes does not make econo cars for the US market. It's not supposed to attract EVO buyers, it's a new entry level Mercedes Benz and should have all the same qualities as any car in their lineup except for being FWD. It will compete against the Acura TSX, VW CC, next generation BMW 1 series and the like. I seriously doubt it will be "brash" except in the Mercedes context which means sportier than the normal non-AMG models.

Stavrs commented: February 7, 2013, 11:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

I'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-Series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The CLA is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-Series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the CLA are awful proportions due to a stubby FWD chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-Series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a FWD Econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-Cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-Series (or C-Class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a Lancer Evo, but don't want a Mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently Economy-Car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the CLA IF it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the Mercedes brand, although it's a FWD car starting under $30K, would force the C-Class and its 3-Series rival to move up in public perception.

Very strong comments considering that most likely you have not seen the car in person much less driven it.

From my perspective there is nothing timeless about the 3 series - it looks way too common and follows the design language of our times. When this language changes as it does every so often it will look old.

The CLA on the other hand is introducing another segment like the CLS did, no matter if you like this new segment or not. It is following a design language that deviates from the norm of our times. Isn't this the actual definition of timeless? Independent of time?

Michael Schott commented: February 7, 2013, 1:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stavrs

Very strong comments considering that most likely you have not seen the car in person much less driven it.

From my perspective there is nothing timeless about the 3 series - it looks way too common and follows the design language of our times. When this language changes as it does every so often it will look old.

The CLA on the other hand is introducing another segment like the CLS did, no matter if you like this new segment or not. It is following a design language that deviates from the norm of our times. Isn't this the actual definition of timeless? Independent of time?

I like the look of the CLA but contrary to your point about BMW, the F30 will be like nearly every 3 series and look good for a long time. Look at the E46 which has been out of production for about 8 years. It still looks very handsome. I expect the E90 to be the same. I am looking at mine right now outside my window at work and while it's not a beautiful design, it's simple and is perfectly proportioned. The F30 is the same just slightly more modern looking. You can go back to the 2002 from the early 1970's. It would never pass today's rollover standards but it's still a great looking car. The only recent BMW that may not age well is the 1 series.

408Racer commented: February 7, 2013, 1:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

...The only recent BMW that may not age well is the 1 series.

I agree with everything except about the current 1 series not aging well. The only thing wrong with the older ones are the PTSD looking headlights. Beyond that, they actually look like handsomely updated E36 coupes.

Jamesonsviggen commented: February 7, 2013, 2:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 408Racer

I agree with everything except about the current 1 series not aging well. The only thing wrong with the older ones are the PTSD looking headlights. Beyond that, they actually look like handsomely updated E36 coupes.

To me the proportions are just a bit off, not as bad as the 318Ti, but a bit too scrunched. This is exacerbated by the 1m, even though I want to love that car.

K-A commented: February 7, 2013, 6:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1

I had an F10 as a loaner for the day. The handling is softer, less sure footed, and there is noticeable body roll as compared to my wife's E60 535xi (ours without the sport suspension). So, the Mercedes E-Class must feel like a boat (I have not driven a Mercedes since our 2004 S600 which handled extremely well).

Yes, the F10 feels very sporty compared to the W212. I can attest to that. The E60 was too raw for me, which is why I was in Mercedes'. The F10 basically went for me, a guy who needs a luxurious ride, but now wanted something more dynamic than the E. I guess job well done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stavrs

Very strong comments considering that most likely you have not seen the car in person much less driven it.

From my perspective there is nothing timeless about the 3 series - it looks way too common and follows the design language of our times. When this language changes as it does every so often it will look old.

The CLA on the other hand is introducing another segment like the CLS did, no matter if you like this new segment or not. It is following a design language that deviates from the norm of our times. Isn't this the actual definition of timeless? Independent of time?

I have a very different definition of "Timeless" than you do, I guess.

Timeless is anti-fashion, it's more about style, and in many ways, simplicity. The CLS and CLA to me are completely fashionable, which to me will put a date-stamp on them. The 3-Series is a timeless, conservative look, there's little about it that will stamp it with a date. It's just a good looking car, with little gimmicks. The CLA has every gimmick of 2012 applied to it, accompanied by wayward lines, which may not age well to the eyes, therefore I consider that what will "date" it in a premature fashion.

The E60 and E65 were revolutionary, and look at how badly they're aging. The F30 and F10 era's are the anti-that, they're intended graceful designs that will age very well, lines that make sense, sharp styling yet nothing too jarring (minus the F30's nose a bit, IMO) yet lots of smoothed corners which I feel usually prove to age better than hard ones, flawless proportions, an "it just works" idiom. The CLA isn't a graceful design.... it isn't intended to be, as that's not what that market for that price range are looking for. If they were, the C-Class will give them that effect much better.

beden1 commented: February 7, 2013, 7:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-A

Yes, the F10 feels very sporty compared to the W212. I can attest to that. The E60 was too raw for me, which is why I was in Mercedes'. The F10 basically went for me, a guy who needs a luxurious ride, but now wanted something more dynamic than the E. I guess job well done.

I have a very different definition of "Timeless" than you do, I guess.

Timeless is anti-fashion, it's more about style, and in many ways, simplicity. The CLS and CLA to me are completely fashionable, which to me will put a date-stamp on them. The 3-Series is a timeless, conservative look, there's little about it that will stamp it with a date. It's just a good looking car, with little gimmicks. The CLA has every gimmick of 2012 applied to it, accompanied by wayward lines, which may not age well to the eyes, therefore I consider that what will "date" it in a premature fashion.

The E60 and E65 were revolutionary, and look at how badly they're aging. The F30 and F10 era's are the anti-that, they're intended graceful designs that will age very well, lines that make sense, sharp styling yet nothing too jarring (minus the F30's nose a bit, IMO) yet lots of smoothed corners which I feel usually prove to age better than hard ones, flawless proportions, an "it just works" idiom. The CLA isn't a graceful design.... it isn't intended to be, as that's not what that market for that price range are looking for. If they were, the C-Class will give them that effect much better.

As looks are subjective, all I can say is that I don't personally agree with this statement. As a long term BMW owner, I'll also say that the looks are secondary to the performance. That's why we will not be replacing our E60 with an F10.

To me the proportions are just a bit off, not as bad as the 318Ti, but a bit too scrunched. This is exacerbated by the 1m, even though I want to love that car.

Scrunched? Not sure what you mean by that.

If dimensionally, then compared to the F30..............oh yeah. That's a supreme compliment in my book.

The one and upcoming two series are a refresher in BMW 101....................return to basics BMW's.

It's why AG hypes them as reinvented 2002's. Just marketing rubbish really, because they're more like reinvented E30's.

And frankly they are the only series that rev my pulse rate, regardless of their perceived appearance.

The drier remains fine for family hauling requirements, which is why I maintain an interest in the Touring.

But have simply become too big and bloated to be considered eminently chuckable.

If the einser reihe is "scrunched", then the entire AG lineup would do well to aspire to the same.

Jamesonsviggen commented: February 9, 2013, 9:27 am

What I mean by svrunched is the scaleof things, like the green house, or fender flares are large compared to he hood, trunk and over hangs. Its proportions 101. This is not my unique opinion. Kind of like the M Coupe, it can be an acquired taste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyMike

Scrunched? Not sure what you mean by that.

If dimensionally, then compared to the F30..............oh yeah. That's a supreme compliment in my book.

The one and upcoming two series are a refresher in BMW 101....................return to basics BMW's.

It's why AG hypes them as reinvented 2002's. Just marketing rubbish really, because they're more like reinvented E30's.

And frankly they are the only series that rev my pulse rate, regardless of their perceived appearance.

The drier remains fine for family hauling requirements, which is why I maintain an interest in the Touring.

But have simply become too big and bloated to be considered eminently chuckable.

If the einser reihe is "scrunched", then the entire AG lineup would do well to aspire to the same.

IndyMike commented: February 9, 2013, 4:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

What I mean by svrunched is the scaleof things, like the green house, or fender flares are large compared to he hood, trunk and over hangs. Its proportions 101. This is not my unique opinion. Kind of like the M Coupe, it can be an acquired taste.

Okay, got it now. I wasn't much of a fan at first, but it gradually grew on me............and after a test drive in a 6 speed manual I was a goner.

The 1 M has to have flared fenders to fit the bigger meats. A big complaint of the modder mad one crowd is the limited tire options on the base car. Rolling the fenders was the only way to get more contact patch down.

You can tell that the difference between the two fender wise are considerable. The downside is you burn through rear rubbers more quickly, which was never a problem with the 135 to begin with.

IndyMike commented: February 9, 2013, 4:34 pm

As far as the CLA, I like the design but have no interest until available in AWD.