Would you mind creating another thread about these drills...and then listing said drills? This would be sticky material here!

Yes, I will try and do so this week.

"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

Very old Judo guys will remember mat randori where you sit on the mat, back to back, and you then "go." I think this has value as well because there is a "scramble" element to the entire game, and it prevents the "quick pull guard" thing.

My dojo does this almost every "recreational" class. I've never seen the scramble result in anything but both opponents facing each other then knee wrestling. Should we be trying something other than just spinning to face with a gap between us?

My dojo does this almost every "recreational" class. I've never seen the scramble result in anything but both opponents facing each other then knee wrestling. Should we be trying something other than just spinning to face with a gap between us?

Well...

Which way are you turning? Ever change it up? What is your level when you turn? Ever change it up? Ever just spun on your butt and gone into a sweep?

I can go on.....

"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

Well, I think where most people get into trouble on the ground is they don't understand physics, and Newton's first law to be specific.

Go look it up... I'll wait.

OK, once movement stops, you are now in a pinning game. It is VERY hard to escape pins, do sweeps, etc, if there is no movement. That first law works against you. Think about the stand up game for a moment. How hard is it to throw someone who locks their arms, squats, and won't move? Its so hard there are rules in Judo against taking that position. BTW, its why most sweeps fail.

The sitting back to back drill is VERY different from fighting off of our knees because it adds the dynamic of motion. It makes that first law our friend. Sadly most people do not use it, they just turn and get to their knees and we are back to fighting from their knees.

Of course, I am rumored to know nothing about this next part, and it has been claimed that to even speak about it causes severe trauma to my id, ego and super ego....

...but before I write more, two words... rubber guard.

"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

Well, I think where most people get into trouble on the ground is they don't understand physics, and Newton's first law to be specific.

Go look it up... I'll wait.

OK, once movement stops, you are now in a pinning game. It is VERY hard to escape pins, do sweeps, etc, if there is no movement. That first law works against you. Think about the stand up game for a moment. How hard is it to throw someone who locks their arms, squats, and won't move? Its so hard there are rules in Judo against taking that position. BTW, its why most sweeps fail.

In addition to the 1st law, there is also the matter of static friction to be overcome.

Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie

In addition to the 1st law, there is also the matter of static friction to be overcome.

Yes, and likely much more so in Gi rather than no Gi.

"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

My dojo does this almost every "recreational" class. I've never seen the scramble result in anything but both opponents facing each other then knee wrestling. Should we be trying something other than just spinning to face with a gap between us?

I backwards roll to inverted guard when we do this in Judo class.

Personally, in no-gi I use the full guard for submissions and sweeps from those submissions (omoplata from rubber guard being the highest percentage). I use half-guard if I want to sweep.

I don't understand why you would think sweeps are any different than anything else. Throws rarely work in isolation. Takedowns rarely work in isolation. Submissions rarely work in isolation. Escapes rarely work in isolation. KO's rarely work in isolation. Why expect sweeps to work in isolation or expect them to work easily against trained opponents.

Proper kuzushi in sweeps comes about the same way as proper kuzushi in throws. Yes it may be harder because a more sturdy base can be had on the ground but the same principles apply. Athletes can often force throws when it takes great skill to do the throw with good kuzushi. The same is true of sweeps except it is harder to force them.