leaving the instance out *could* give the GM's possibility to get more presious bug reports. for example yours. I've never heard of it braking 6 times in a row. that really is special. I wouldn't be surprised if you did a detailed analysis in your bug report that QA person *might* notice a better patter than before.

this actually happened to me, lol. When my kinnies and I were fresh at 75, we ran the instance on a Saturday with another kin since each of our respective groups was too small, plus they wanted our tank since he always called the head right and we never had issues with anything if he was tanking - god bless him. Anyway, it was 4 times back to back with the same people before 3 got fed up and left. Then we tried again with two three others from glff and it bugged again 2 more times. Conversely, the next night we tried with original group and ran it once and it worked. So much for making sense out of any of it.

More recently, like less than a month ago, new kin, new server, kin leader gets a wild hair he wants to start running this instance... whole time I was thinking sure sure lets see if we can do it now really fast we are all 85. Bugged like a charm again, twice. We called it a night. Not sure what the solution to it is, but I do know that everything from Gondomon to Barrows Survival to Hellegrod to Flight to Forsaken Inn to... on and on... have all been bugged with issues and they have been taken outta comission to be fixed and re-released afterwards. Whatever "special problem" Draigoch is, I fail to see why it is unreasonable to expect them to just shut-her-down if they just cannot resolve the issue - if they don't have time or money to fix it now fine. But leaving it up is pretty absurd given the state its in.

this actually happened to me, lol. When my kinnies and I were fresh at 75, we ran the instance on a Saturday with another kin since each of our respective groups was too small, plus they wanted our tank since he always called the head right and we never had issues with anything if he was tanking - god bless him. Anyway, it was 4 times back to back with the same people before 3 got fed up and left. Then we tried again with two three others from glff and it bugged again 2 more times. Conversely, the next night we tried with original group and ran it once and it worked. So much for making sense out of any of it.

More recently, like less than a month ago, new kin, new server, kin leader gets a wild hair he wants to start running this instance... whole time I was thinking sure sure lets see if we can do it now really fast we are all 85. Bugged like a charm again, twice. We called it a night. Not sure what the solution to it is, but I do know that everything from Gondomon to Barrows Survival to Hellegrod to Flight to Forsaken Inn to... on and on... have all been bugged with issues and they have been taken outta comission to be fixed and re-released afterwards. Whatever "special problem" Draigoch is, I fail to see why it is unreasonable to expect them to just shut-her-down if they just cannot resolve the issue - if they don't have time or money to fix it now fine. But leaving it up is pretty absurd given the state its in.

I was ranting in the last bugged instance wanting the GM to come in and see the dragon bugged at 10% morale. I wanted him to see that we "beat" it. of course, I was also demanding my deed completion and my loot too. I deserved my rewards and instead got banned. I never want to do it again now...why would I chance another chance to bug out?

I was ranting in the last bugged instance wanting the GM to come in and see the dragon bugged at 10% morale. I wanted him to see that we "beat" it. of course, I was also demanding my deed completion and my loot too. I deserved my rewards and instead got banned. I never want to do it again now...why would I chance another chance to bug out?

I know you're trying to make a point by pulling up all those threads' but damn man lol

I can't respond to Hadoril via my e-mail because it is bugged. It won't let me type in the text box, just in the subject box. I might have a anti-virus issue that is blocking it....

I'm responding to posts that have been posted. Be different if I was Posting the same Post over and over and over. I'm showing that Turbine has received plenty of posts concerning Draigoch, Turbine knows the instance is bugged - even going so far as to classify them as Known Issues, Turbine continues to ignore them, and continues to sell this in the Store.

you are playing with fire now. if a GM says it's spam, it's probably spam. "bumping" is frowned upon in the community guidelines, and they probably just labled it as spam for now. you probably got some reports for your stunt, it's not very often someone does that, is breaking a few status quo on these forums (no I didn't report, I was trying to be reasonable).

epic derail...

derailing is also frowned upon...

better get on subject before this gets locked...

so draicoch, buggy, fun when it works, would like to see if turbine does anything, would like to try a run myself to see if it bugs. then I may turn my head and say yes, it probably does need to be deactivated (where it probably would die tbh).

in there quest to revamp almost everything, and suspect more revamped in HD I bet, we might see this revamped. so I wouldn't be surprised if re-hashed this instances in a less buggy way, it wasn't *that* buggy at RoI times tbh, it was at least playable 9/10 times.

you are playing with fire now. if a GM says it's spam, it's probably spam. "bumping" is frowned upon in the community guidelines, and they probably just labled it as spam for now. you probably got some reports for your stunt, it's not very often someone does that, is breaking a few status quo on these forums (no I didn't report, I was trying to be reasonable).

epic derail...

derailing is also frowned upon...

better get on subject before this gets locked...

so draicoch, buggy, fun when it works, would like to see if turbine does anything, would like to try a run myself to see if it bugs. then I may turn my head and say yes, it probably does need to be deactivated (where it probably would die tbh).

in there quest to revamp almost everything, and suspect more revamped in HD I bet, we might see this revamped. so I wouldn't be surprised if re-hashed this instances in a less buggy way, it wasn't *that* buggy at RoI times tbh, it was at least playable 9/10 times.

Take it easy there playing with fire....let the person go. In fact, I find it amazing that you replied to all of his/her posts on the matter. I feel your just responding on purpose to this person just to get him going even more!

Its better not to respond to the posts because in the end your just feeding the hate this person has. WTH, when did you become the police of the forums.

It's simple, no matter what anyone will say to this person, he/she is not going to listen.

Call it hate, frustration or whatever you want, but everyone who defends the 'playability' of this ride probably hasn't done it any of these days and is living with the old memories when 'it didn't always bug'. This is not the case anymore. 6 times in a row is what I can perfectly imagine. My sincere respect to the people who have the nerves to bring it to phase 3 for 6 consecutive times, only to brake there every time. I couldn't. *

It doesn't matter if it bugs 6/6, or 'only' 9/10 and you have 'a shot' if you are 10% lucky. Right now this raid is broken far beyond any reasonable level of tolerance. A 'product' of such state should not be sold at all. If you try to start the engine of your car you don't try 9/10 times, right? If you do, then something with your car needs fixing. If you do and you think this is normal, then something with your car and with yourself need fixing.

* OK, I understand you didn't actually do it 6 times in a row. Which is great, because this means you are not insane.

you are playing with fire now. if a GM says it's spam, it's probably spam. "bumping" is frowned upon in the community guidelines, and they probably just labled it as spam for now. you probably got some reports for your stunt, it's not very often someone does that, is breaking a few status quo on these forums (no I didn't report, I was trying to be reasonable).

epic derail...

derailing is also frowned upon...

better get on subject before this gets locked...

so draicoch, buggy, fun when it works, would like to see if turbine does anything, would like to try a run myself to see if it bugs. then I may turn my head and say yes, it probably does need to be deactivated (where it probably would die tbh).

in there quest to revamp almost everything, and suspect more revamped in HD I bet, we might see this revamped. so I wouldn't be surprised if re-hashed this instances in a less buggy way, it wasn't *that* buggy at RoI times tbh, it was at least playable 9/10 times.

I have an account with Turbine that I paid for with US Currency. I paid for a somewhat quality product. I play to have fun. I do not play to frustrated over an instance that is bugged and has known issues that aren't being addressed. I do know this, they are selling this in the Store for $19.99. In fact, the Draigoch raid is featured in the RoI expansion pack. Is it not? I think I and any other player that has paid for this expansion pack and have wasted our gaming time in a instance that will MOST LIKELY bug deserve to have that instance fixed. If it can't be fixed, then obviously it has to be deactivated. I am somewhat shocked that this has been allowed to continue.

Call it hate, frustration or whatever you want, but everyone who defends the 'playability' of this ride probably hasn't done it any of these days and is living with the old memories when 'it didn't always bug'. This is not the case anymore. 6 times in a row is what I can perfectly imagine. My sincere respect to the people who have the nerves to bring it to phase 3 for 6 consecutive times, only to brake there every time. I couldn't. *

It doesn't matter if it bugs 6/6, or 'only' 9/10 and you have 'a shot' if you are 10% lucky. Right now this raid is broken far beyond any reasonable level of tolerance. A 'product' of such state should not be sold at all. If you try to start the engine of your car you don't try 9/10 times, right? If you do, then something with your car needs fixing. If you do and you think this is normal, then something with your car and with yourself need fixing.

* OK, I understand you didn't actually do it 6 times in a row. Which is great, because this means you are not insane.

I wish more players would come out on the Draigoch's Lair issue and voice their concerns. I'm not calling for a revolt, not matter what the quack Posters of Note or Grand Members spout. I'm simply calling for Turbine to Fix or Deactivate the instance. It's a cool instance, I like the challenge, and have beaten it many times before (and have wiped). You know happens when it bugs? It robs the players. Robs them of the experience. Robs them of their time. Robs them of their rewards. To me, those are the really KNOWN ISSUES.

Take it easy there playing with fire....let the person go. In fact, I find it amazing that you replied to all of his/her posts on the matter. I feel your just responding on purpose to this person just to get him going even more!

Its better not to respond to the posts because in the end your just feeding the hate this person has. WTH, when did you become the police of the forums.

It's simple, no matter what anyone will say to this person, he/she is not going to listen.

Again, sorry, it's not hate. A little frustration maybe. It's sad you can't see it, really. Turbine has something that is very, very horrible. It bugs out most of the time. They have received bug reports on it. They have postings on the forum that go WAY back to the very release of it. They have received "probably" numerous Help Tickets for In-Game Support (I can only guess that it has been numerous). Turbine has this raid featured in the RoI expansion. It was being sold at one time for $39.99 (or more). They are selling it now for $19.99. They are selling something B R O K E. They have tried (which I have received replies from on my posts) to fix it, but apparently they can't. They have opted to allow this instance to remain active. I have read in other posts that the players were frustrated too. Read those POSTS and then say what you say.

you are playing with fire now. if a GM says it's spam, it's probably spam. "bumping" is frowned upon in the community guidelines, and they probably just labled it as spam for now. you probably got some reports for your stunt, it's not very often someone does that, is breaking a few status quo on these forums (no I didn't report, I was trying to be reasonable).

epic derail...

derailing is also frowned upon...

better get on subject before this gets locked...

so draicoch, buggy, fun when it works, would like to see if turbine does anything, would like to try a run myself to see if it bugs. then I may turn my head and say yes, it probably does need to be deactivated (where it probably would die tbh).

in there quest to revamp almost everything, and suspect more revamped in HD I bet, we might see this revamped. so I wouldn't be surprised if re-hashed this instances in a less buggy way, it wasn't *that* buggy at RoI times tbh, it was at least playable 9/10 times.

Take it easy there playing with fire....let the person go. In fact, I find it amazing that you replied to all of his/her posts on the matter. I feel your just responding on purpose to this person just to get him going even more!

Its better not to respond to the posts because in the end your just feeding the hate this person has. WTH, when did you become the police of the forums.

It's simple, no matter what anyone will say to this person, he/she is not going to listen.

bohbashum and I aren't really going at it....he brings up excuses, I shoot them down. He's not feeding hate, honestly. If anything, it is highlighting the issue of a very, very buggy instance. I do listen to him. I just don't agree with him, there's a difference. And, it is a dialogue on the issue. The GM that sent the e-mail I'm guessing was thinking I was just posting stuff to be posting. If that makes sense? I'm not posting stuff to just clutter the forum board. I'm reactivating those older posts to illustrate my point. Draigoch has been broken for a long, long time. It started out a little buggy and has gotten progressively worse. Instead of addressing the instance, fixing it or deactivating it, Turbine just labels the bugs as Known Issues. If the GM is trying to stifle the conversation concerning the Draigoch's lair raid in an attempt to cover up the problems with Draigoch, that would reflect even more poorly on the situation. besides, I didn't repost all of the draigoch posts. There were more.

Call it hate, frustration or whatever you want, but everyone who defends the 'playability' of this ride probably hasn't done it any of these days and is living with the old memories when 'it didn't always bug'. This is not the case anymore. 6 times in a row is what I can perfectly imagine. My sincere respect to the people who have the nerves to bring it to phase 3 for 6 consecutive times, only to brake there every time. I couldn't. *

It doesn't matter if it bugs 6/6, or 'only' 9/10 and you have 'a shot' if you are 10% lucky. Right now this raid is broken far beyond any reasonable level of tolerance. A 'product' of such state should not be sold at all. If you try to start the engine of your car you don't try 9/10 times, right? If you do, then something with your car needs fixing. If you do and you think this is normal, then something with your car and with yourself need fixing.

* OK, I understand you didn't actually do it 6 times in a row. Which is great, because this means you are not insane.

Hehe - the crazy pants who did it and failed 6 times back-to-back was me (see above)

But yeah... I am not sure what the problem is either considering recent bug outs when we attempted it less than a month ago. Regarding people posting to forget about this, many are probably just apathetic because it's not a priority issue to them since most have moved past lvl75 and see no reason to run this anyway. Heck, many at lvl75 are likely not concerned either as typically most are on the fast track to Rohan and are skipping the 75 instances just to get to cap and run those instead. Too bad too. I mean let's face it - Mr. Red isn't exactly a raid anymore than some of the Erebor zerg fests we currently have masquerading as raids at end game, but he's certainly fun when he works right.

As far as what the Turbine team is or isn't doing about it, that is anyone's guess of course since there hasn't been much communication about it for quite some time. Barring some blue name chiming in here, perhaps at some point in the future a dev chat or official announcement they will make can shed some light on just where this issue stands on the totem pole.

In fact, I find it amazing that you replied to all of his/her posts on the matter. I feel your just responding on purpose to this person just to get him going even more!

It's simple, no matter what anyone will say to this person, he/she is not going to listen.

2 things always hit me at the point of the forums.
1) players to discuss game play challanges (solo, grouped or PvP, it's a very broad spectrum)
2) turbine to see feedback.

getting a debate going in a thread is good. if a thread is just one sided it can die quickly (less chance seen by turbine). if we get a debate going, it's very often it'll keep popping to top, and as seen, turbine have noted his outburst. I often choose the side I don't innitially agree with just to spark a dabate, find flaws in people's proposals, but ultimately I agree with there points there getting across.

If it I can show turbine that even that people will make comprimises and PARTS of arguments are completely valid, I find myself very happy to play the bad guy. as long as I have the time, word it carmly, and ultimatly feel I can see something worth fighting for.

for example this, fixing the bug and wasting the devs time isn't an option I bet. deactivation should happen if it's severe enough. should this instance really be on the store broken? thats an argument it should be deactivated too, but also, why can't they make it free? (guess thats just company being evil though).

Hehe - the crazy pants who did it and failed 6 times back-to-back was me (see above)

Then you (and the rest of the raid) have my admiration. This raid is interesting in braking the stereotype of group content and surely deserves that amount of dedication, if only the dev(s) who made it could raise its technical level on par with its general idea and design, which are brilliant. If this doesn't happen, the whole thing will remain as an undiscovered (but sold ?!) gem.

JW, you should now be ashamed of yourself. It is now my goal to see that you are fired. I will use all of my inside gaming websites to see that you are fired. Tomorrow I will be calling MY credit card company and asking for a refund of ROR in full, because what was said to be giving to me has not been given to me. Enough is enough, everyone needs to stand up and call and be demanded a refund. This was not what was promised, and I demand I refund. And guess what, i am also a lifetime account, so I will not be going away. Next up is 7 on your side. Thats ABC news. ect ect. Affter that... I am going to make this my mission, little old me.... vs TURBINE.............. Good luck. Stick together guys and we can make this game turn around.................

if you want to go the legal route...

you agreed to the terms and conditions. they are not liable for ANY game damage, server side or anything tbh. even if a storm hit turbine HQ and took everything down. they are not, at all, bound to give us any kind of refund. the game is a "as is" system. if ANYTHING isn't working as intended it isn't there issue. customer support and the QA team are not legally bound to work vast amounts, it's just "nice" of them to do so and keeps customers here if they do.

turbine also is under no legal reason to give a refund. most games don't tbh. you have "used there goods" and because it is all online and on there servers. nothing is physically owned. refunds are only given out of kindness (in a sense) to help customer relations.

they can also ban any account they like. lifetime of not. for any reason if they please. the system on that is just "guidelines". if you threaten legally, they will ban you as you may be a liability to them now.

you agreed to the terms and conditions. they are not liable for ANY game damage, server side or anything tbh. even if a storm hit turbine HQ and took everything down. they are not, at all, bound to give us any kind of refund. the game is a "as is" system. if ANYTHING isn't working as intended it isn't there issue. customer support and the QA team are not legally bound to work vast amounts, it's just "nice" of them to do so and keeps customers here if they do.

turbine also is under no legal reason to give a refund. most games don't tbh. you have "used there goods" and because it is all online and on there servers. nothing is physically owned. refunds are only given out of kindness (in a sense) to help customer relations.

they can also ban any account they like. lifetime of not. for any reason if they please. the system on that is just "guidelines". if you threaten legally, they will ban you as you may be a liability to them now.

and thats me ignoring all your posts CoC violations...

I personally don't want anyone fired.....I want the instance fixed. If it can't be fixed, then deactivate it. Why am I stuck on this issue, I don't want anyone feeling as frustrated as I did the other night....then getting banned for wanting my "rewards" for all of my efforts.

you agreed to the terms and conditions. they are not liable for ANY game damage, server side or anything tbh. even if a storm hit turbine HQ and took everything down. they are not, at all, bound to give us any kind of refund. the game is a "as is" system. if ANYTHING isn't working as intended it isn't there issue. customer support and the QA team are not legally bound to work vast amounts, it's just "nice" of them to do so and keeps customers here if they do.

turbine also is under no legal reason to give a refund. most games don't tbh. you have "used there goods" and because it is all online and on there servers. nothing is physically owned. refunds are only given out of kindness (in a sense) to help customer relations.

they can also ban any account they like. lifetime of not. for any reason if they please. the system on that is just "guidelines". if you threaten legally, they will ban you as you may be a liability to them now.

and thats me ignoring all your posts CoC violations...

Legalese and ToS aren't going to keep a company out of trouble, just saying. Usually, those are brought up in a court of law and quickly debunked, especially when the company is causing "harm" to customers. Harm doesn't necessarily mean physical. However, do I want to go a legal route? No. Again, just fix that instance or deactivate it. It is sad that the conversation has devolved into firing someone and/or taking legal action.

My kin ran it last night on Landroval. Tried twice, both times we got the animation bug where the attackable locations were different than the graphical representation of the dragon. Tank lost aggro, raidwide damage, wipe.

IF the event is on the "known bugs" list, then the raid item in the store should also bear a disclaimer that the event is currently not working as designed and is under review. ETA on fix, unknown.

It was aggravating, but we moved on and did something else as a kin. I would just like to see the event fixed, it would be icing on the cake if they also made it scalable.

we got the animation bug where the attackable locations were different than the graphical representation of the dragon.

after about 60 bug-free runs of this raid, that is the first bug I ever encountered.
We actually managed to get back on track for phase 1, but during ph 2 the tactic
we employed failed to get the tank to the proper location...

Anyway, please do not deactivate the raid, just put up a warning both in the
launch-panel and in the store that this raid is prone to bug out.

It's not fair to deactivate this, when there are people like me, doing this raid with certain
steady groups and never having Draigoch bug out. Did I mention that one time it bugged
out on me I was helping out another kin who were missing out on a burg? My usual group
has *never* seen Draigoch bug out...
Not even after our Guardian DC'ed an it took us over an hour to finish the raid,
because we couldn't accept defeat with 2 Cappies alive. (restart would have been
faster, but saving the doomed raid just felt way more epic )