this has been the theme I'm hearing from a LOT of Republican pundits. they're telling the Republicans NOT to compromise with the Democrats and to take their ball and go home. it's surprisingly well coordinated. Krauthammer, Limbaugh and I think I heard Beck and Hannity say something along similar lines. this theme is a bit TOO unified to be merely coincidence.

hmm.

I agree. I also think that would be a reprehensible dereliction of their duties as the controlling party in the House of Representatives, which is charged with originating spending bills. I suppose that hasn't stopped them any time in recent history, though.

The following letters exchanged by Generals Grant and Lee give the terms under which the latter surrendered his army and practically brought to a close the War of Secession.

From U.S. Grant To R.E. Lee

Appomattox Court-House, Virginia April 9, 1865.

General: In accordance with the substance of my letter to you of the 8th instant, I propose to receive the surrender of the army of Northern Virginia on the following terms, to wit: Rolls of all the officers and men to be made in duplicate, one copy to be given to an officer to be designated by me, the other to be retained by such officer or officers as you may designate. The officers to give their individual paroles not to take up arms against the government of the United States until properly exchanged; and each company or regimental commander to sign a like parole for the men of their commands. The arms, artillery, and public property to be parked and stacked, and turned over to the officers appointed by me to receive them. This will not embrace the side-arms of the officers nor their private horses or baggage. This done, each officer and man will be allowed to return to his home, not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside.

U.S. Grant, Lieutenant-General. General R. E. Lee.

From R.E. Lee To U.S. Grant

Head-Quarters, Army of Northern Virginia April 9, 1865.

General: I received your letter of this date containing the terms of the surrender of the army of Northern Virginia, as proposed by you. As they are substantially the same as those expressed in your letter of the 8th instant, they are accepted. I will proceed to designate the proper officers to carry the stipulations into effect.

you have pee hands:ghall3: "Republicans won the House" I hate how they keep falling back on this. It should be completely obvious to EVERYONE that this is because they rigged it. The Dems won 50.2% of the vote for the house compared with 49.7% for the GOP. Now this is not a huge margin but considering the GOP ended up with 51.4% of the seats compared with 44.8% for the Dems, something is wrong.

But of course the media will never call the GOP out on this when they bring it up because they have to be "fair and balanced".

We are farked

It's not exactly rigged. Everyone keeps calling this gerrymandering without looking at how exactly it happened. PA is a great example. The democrats took a majority of the votes but only 6/18 house seats - because they won by giant majorities in Philadelphia and lost by slimmer margins across most of the rest of the state. Should every district have a long tendril into Philly to split up heavy Democratic majority from the metro area across the rest of the state's districts? That would end up with a ridiculous looking map of districts. The same pattern - Democratic supermajority in urban areas and smaller republican majorities in rural areas - played out in many places across the country. There are very few districts Republicans win with the 80%+ majorities Democrats take in the cities. It's not exactly a conspiracy, just a natural consequence of a system where winning by 1% is worth the same as winning by 40%. The only way around it would to switch to a nationwide vote and a system or proportional representation.

There is supposed to be roughly similar constituent-to-representative ratios. The solution is not to draw more nutty looking districts, but to make more districts in highly populated areas and larger (ie. fewer) districts in the rural areas. This is actually how it is, but suburban districts are the ones that are drawn funny to extend out to more rural areas to tip the scales towards the GOP.

Take a look at my district in Pa (6th congressional district). Notice how it outlines, but excludes all of Norristown and has an arm that extends up towards the Lehigh valley. Holy farking Christ!

Krauthammer's right in one way. The GOP is like the Confederacy... Beaten, on the wrong side of history, and in no position to make demands.

I find it offensive that modern day Republicans would dare to favorably compare the party of Lincoln to the Confederacy. that aside, you are correct - the GOP is in no position to make demands of any sort. the Democrats have been rather gracious to the Republican party. they could do far more damage to the GOP agenda if they pushed harder....but all things considered the Dems have been pretty good about the whole thing. The GOP have taken the term 'sore loser' to new, never before seen depths of rage and despair.

born_yesterday:mrshowrules: brerjeff: A few months ago, my mom who is a baby-boomer tea party crazy-type, was trying to save me from my socialist-communist tendencies and was trying to convince me how right she was by suggesting I read some columns from Krauthammer. I haven't stopped laughing yet.

As I picture your mom.

[ct.fra.bz image 600x416]

/no offense

There's this look of smugness that stupid people can achieve that no thinking person can ever come close to...it fills me with much rage, because you know there's no way you can use knowledge, facts, or wisdom to get rid of it. It is the impenetrable shield of stupidity.

What's the saying that ignorant people are supremely confident in their 'knowledge' while smart people are filled with doubt about theirs?

Didn't read the whole thread so I'mnot sure if its been said, but technically, he didn't say, "we". Now, he did equate the Republican party to the Confederacy, but he didn't claim to be a part of the team. Now, the question is, did he think that ending slavery was a "bad deal" for the South to accept?

Stop crying Chuck. The president is using the tactic of asking for everything he wants to set the starting point for negotiations. It's a favorite tactic of lawyers and politicians. He just did it before the house republicans had a chance to do it.

Macular Degenerate:Awesome, so hopefully the death toll will be just as large. Personally, I believe the best thing for this country would be to take 750,000 wingnut conservatives out behind the barn with a shotgun. The executions start tonight.

I don't have much genuine contempt for a whole lot of people on the right. I disagree with the lot of them, dislike most of them, but genuine contempt? Very few, Krauthammer being one of them.

He is the succinct embodiment of everything that is wrong with Conservative media today. Krauthammer is, by every measure, a highly intelligent, exceedingly well educated man who has broken rank with his party, particularly the religious right, on many issues. He could at least attempt to steer his party back into the real conservatism he's championed for most of his career but as a commentator for FOX News he seems much more intent on sticking his flaccid, non-functioning dick in that poor, poor chicken.

The problem with people like Krauthammer, and Jennifer Rubin is that they have absolutely no interest in having an honest discourse with their audience. Absolutely none. They're just parroting talking points, feeding a narrative that has absolutely no grounding in reality. It's particularly bad in Krauthammer's instance, because he is highly regarded as an intellectual heavyweight, and he uses this standing to validate the most moronic talking points for the FOX News audience instead of actually having an honest discussion. It's selling out, in a way.

And this whopper just sort of confirms it. Krauthammer is Jewish, born in New York and raised in Canada; he feels no kinship to the Civil War. He just said that shiat because he knows the average FOX News viewer is pretty pink around the collar and would react to it.

Get it through your thick farking skull, you smug dumbass: You got everything you wanted the last time you held us hostage. If you do so again, and there aren't riots, you better be smiling, because you now have carte blanche to do absolutely anything you want, and the Democrats could sweep into power and not do a thing to stop you. So stop your farking whining.

incendi:Weaver95: They obviously expect the Republicans will cave on everything. I think Republican ought to simply walk away.

this has been the theme I'm hearing from a LOT of Republican pundits. they're telling the Republicans NOT to compromise with the Democrats and to take their ball and go home. it's surprisingly well coordinated. Krauthammer, Limbaugh and I think I heard Beck and Hannity say something along similar lines. this theme is a bit TOO unified to be merely coincidence.

hmm.

I agree. I also think that would be a reprehensible dereliction of their duties as the controlling party in the House of Representatives, which is charged with originating spending bills. I suppose that hasn't stopped them any time in recent history, though.

well, walking out of the legislature would be an interesting response. the GOP pundits could try to say that they're merely following the example of the Wisconsin democrats and that they're just 'protesting' non-violently. i'm not sure anything like that has been done at the federal level before. that said, the tactic would be something new from the Republicans.

Lucky LaRue:Philip Francis Queeg: Not hanging a few of the traitors after the Civil War was a terrible mistake.

Right, because there weren't enough dead Americans at the end of the war. A few hung rebels would have made all the difference.

Jackass.

Those Americans were dead solely because of the acts of the traitors. Jefferson Davis and the other rebel conspirators should have paid a price for their crimes. Perhaps then the South would have understood that they lost.

Weaver95:...but all things considered the Dems have been pretty good about the whole thing. The GOP have taken the term 'sore loser' to new, never before seen depths of rage and despair.

Agreed. I'm still not a huge fan of democrats in general, but they understand how this process works and why it's important to find common ground with political rivals while still putting forward their agenda. They've taken over the sane, center right, while the GOP has become nothing more than a far right insurgent outlier.

Zerochance:I don't have much genuine contempt for a whole lot of people on the right. I disagree with the lot of them, dislike most of them, but genuine contempt? Very few, Krauthammer being one of them.

He is the succinct embodiment of everything that is wrong with Conservative media today. Krauthammer is, by every measure, a highly intelligent, exceedingly well educated man who has broken rank with his party, particularly the religious right, on many issues. He could at least attempt to steer his party back into the real conservatism he's championed for most of his career but as a commentator for FOX News he seems much more intent on sticking his flaccid, non-functioning dick in that poor, poor chicken.

The problem with people like Krauthammer, and Jennifer Rubin is that they have absolutely no interest in having an honest discourse with their audience. Absolutely none. They're just parroting talking points, feeding a narrative that has absolutely no grounding in reality. It's particularly bad in Krauthammer's instance, because he is highly regarded as an intellectual heavyweight, and he uses this standing to validate the most moronic talking points for the FOX News audience instead of actually having an honest discussion. It's selling out, in a way.

And this whopper just sort of confirms it. Krauthammer is Jewish, born in New York and raised in Canada; he feels no kinship to the Civil War. He just said that shiat because he knows the average FOX News viewer is pretty pink around the collar and would react to it.

He's a neocon who wants America to do whatever Bibi tells them to do. Including toppling Iran for them.

Actually Obama is above Romney now by 4.5 million votes with votes still to be counted. He will end up with a 5 million vote lead in all likelihood.

His percentage lead is currently 50.90 to 47.36.

4% point lead with an almost 5 million vote advantage.

The last Republican to win by over 5 million votes in the popular vote was in 1988 over 24 years ago.

Since then Democrats have either lost by winning the popular vote or losing by about 3 million. Democrats meanwhile have won by totals of 8 million votes, 5 million votes, 10 million votes and this term almost 5 million votes (with a slow economy, high unemployment and a black man named barack hussein obama....)

Weaver95:well, walking out of the legislature would be an interesting response. the GOP pundits could try to say that they're merely following the example of the Wisconsin democrats and that they're just 'protesting' non-violently. i'm not sure anything like that has been done at the federal level before. that said, the tactic would be something new from the Republicans.

Monkeyhouse Zendo:Weaver95: well, walking out of the legislature would be an interesting response. the GOP pundits could try to say that they're merely following the example of the Wisconsin democrats and that they're just 'protesting' non-violently. i'm not sure anything like that has been done at the federal level before. that said, the tactic would be something new from the Republicans.

Throwing a tantrum and being obstructionist would be a new tactic?

given that they're the majority party in the house..yes, it WOULD be new. And I don't think it'd work out as well as they think it would.

If "foreign" is a good substitute for "New York," and Yale for "Boston educated," you might be eligible for a cabinet position.

Judah Philip Benjamin, QC (August 6, 1811 - May 6, 1884) was an American politician and lawyer who served in cabinet level positions in the Confederate States of America, including Secretary of War and Secretary of State.

...

Judah Philip Benjamin was born a British subject in 1811 in Saint Croix, to Phillip Benjamin, an English Sephardi Jew, and his wife, Rebecca de Mendes, a Sephardi Jew from Spain.

He emigrated with his parents to the U.S. in 1813, where the family first lived in Wilmington, North Carolina.

...

As a youth, Benjamin attended Fayetteville Academy in North Carolina. At the age of fourteen, he entered Yale College.

Weaver95:Monkeyhouse Zendo: Weaver95: well, walking out of the legislature would be an interesting response. the GOP pundits could try to say that they're merely following the example of the Wisconsin democrats and that they're just 'protesting' non-violently. i'm not sure anything like that has been done at the federal level before. that said, the tactic would be something new from the Republicans.

Throwing a tantrum and being obstructionist would be a new tactic?

given that they're the majority party in the house..yes, it WOULD be new. And I don't think it'd work out as well as they think it would.

they'd basically be crying about painting themselves into a corner with this deal is all. they passed it knowing they would have to deal sooner or later.

graggor:Actually Obama is above Romney now by 4.5 million votes with votes still to be counted. He will end up with a 5 million vote lead in all likelihood.

His percentage lead is currently 50.90 to 47.36.

4% point lead with an almost 5 million vote advantage.

The last Republican to win by over 5 million votes in the popular vote was in 1988 over 24 years ago.

Since then Democrats have either lost by winning the popular vote or losing by about 3 million. Democrats meanwhile have won by totals of 8 million votes, 5 million votes, 10 million votes and this term almost 5 million votes (with a slow economy, high unemployment and a black man named barack hussein obama....)

Wow the GOP sucks.

Oh, yeah, well, we didn't want those votes anyways! All from a bunch of non-whites wanting handouts, or women thinking with their privates!

Next time, we'll just milk a few more million votes out of the social radicals conservatives and the pro-paternity rapist vote.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

theknuckler_33:There is supposed to be roughly similar constituent-to-representative ratios. The solution is not to draw more nutty looking districts, but to make more districts in highly populated areas and larger (ie. fewer) districts in the rural areas. This is actually how it is, but suburban districts are the ones that are drawn funny to extend out to more rural areas to tip the scales towards the GOP.

Take a look at my district in Pa (6th congressional district). Notice how it outlines, but excludes all of Norristown and has an arm that extends up towards the Lehigh valley. Holy farking Christ!

There already are more districts in higher populated areas balanced by population. Wikipedia has the populations of each district as of the 2000 census, and they're all quite similar (excepting small states on one side or the other of the line between 1 & 2 representatives). PA District 5 is geographically probably 20% of the state, but still has the same ~650,000 people as districts 1 & 2, which are both almost entirely in Philadelphia. If the democratic candidates win districts 1&2 by votes of 80-20 or 85-15, that's a margin of several hundred thousand votes but it's still only two districts, while central PA leans republican but not as heavily.

The 6th probably should trade some land with the 7th & 15th, though. It's ugly.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.

What are you even talking about?

You are trying to disprove two things (one being a negative which is impossible) and the other something that hasnt even happened...

Because a New York born, Quebec and Boston educated, physically handicapped Jewish man would have been sooooooo welcome in the Confederacy.

It is interesting that he automatically equates the modern republican party with the losing side of the civil war....

Both of these

It's such botched thinking. And who is this "we"? Republicans? So the Real Americans they talk about are actually the Confederates who haven't existed since they got their asses kicked 150 years ago? Such delusional people.

HeartBurnKid:So, Krauthammer is now admitting that the Republicans are no longer the "Party of Lincoln"? Well, I have to praise him for his honesty.

I actually watched the video, and he doesn't say "We". Thanks, trollmitter.

As for what he actually did say, there's not a single grain of truth in it. I do really love the "The Democrats[...]did not hold the House. Republicans won the House" bit. You know, because the Democrats held the House majority going into the election, and the Republicans gained a bunch of seats through hard work and a message that resonated with the American people. The Republicans most certainly did not have the majority, and actually lose seats in the election, but manage to hold on to a razor thin majority.

this has been the theme I'm hearing from a LOT of Republican pundits. they're telling the Republicans NOT to compromise with the Democrats and to take their ball and go home. it's surprisingly well coordinated. Krauthammer, Limbaugh and I think I heard Beck and Hannity say something along similar lines. this theme is a bit TOO unified to be merely coincidence.

hmm.

They don't want to make a counter-offer because that would require negotiating, which is something they aren't really in to. So the only alternative is to make Obama bid against himself.

Economic consequences aside, going over the fiscal cliff would at least reveal how non-functional our government is.

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.

You're surprised the fantasy world you've created in your head isn't real?

I was told by Fark Liberals that letting the sequester happen would be a good thing; taxes go up, automatic spending cuts, not touching entitlements, the majority of which are to the defense budget, are automatic, and most everyone will blame the Republicans for the consequences making the 2014 elections a Democrat landslide.

Imagine my surprise to find out neither of these things is true.

citation needed

I don't recall anyone here saying entitlements wouldn't be touched by the automatic cuts. it was clear to everyone they would be.

Do you think they realize how bad off they are at this point? The GOP, I mean.

Consider that their greatest achievement in 2014 was 'holding' the House and that was strictly by means of Gerrymandering their districts to hell and back.

Don't they realize that such a thing is a purely defensive maneuver? That it's equivalent to a 'Fortress Republica' approach to political efforts?

In politics, if you fall back onto such defensive thinking and efforts, you're ceding the momentum and allowing your opponents to stay on the offensive...Now, combine 'that' defensive mentality with the inescapable reality of changing demographics...

In short, GOP, if you don't change, if you don't take on a new immediate approach and divest yourself of your corrupt xenophobes, and religious zealots, you're going to find yourself with a crumbling fortress and an increasingly smaller and smaller domain.

One day, you're going to wake up and you'll be the Roman Empire, ruler of a few square miles in the middle of Italy, surrounded by the modern world.