I responded directly to this yesterdayand also published a response by Kyle Keating. Today, I want to highlight C. Lewis is probably the most effective, clear-headed communicator of Christian belief to unbelievers the Church has produced Celibate homosexual relationships in greece a century. His perspective is worth listening to when it comes to one of the most difficult communication challenges the Church faces in America today.

Lewis wrote in a very different cultural situation, where there was much more stigma attached to homosexuality than there is today. Lewis wrote about the schoolboy homosexuality at Wyvern, the boarding school he attended as an adolescent. He then speaks directly to an imaginary reader:. But there are two reasons. One you shall hear before this chapter ends. The other is that, as I have said, the sin in question is one of the two gambling is the other which I have never been tempted to commit.

I will not indulge in futile philippics against enemies I never met in battle.

In classical antiquity, writers such...

This point is worth examining on its own. In the last few decades, Christian leaders have made a big issue of speaking out against gay rights and same-sex marriage. During the same period of time, they have taken a much softer line on no-fault divorce, fornication, and other offenses against the sanctity of marriage.

Lewis was an unusually persuasive apologist because he spoke humbly about struggles with sin in a way that others who struggled could relate to. This made him an attractive and trustworthy guide, and made the Gospel as he presented it believable and approachable.

The Wyvernians seem to Celibate homosexual relationships in greece in retrospect to have been the least spontaneous, in that sense the least boyish, society I have ever known. For this games Celibate homosexual relationships in greece played; for this clothes, friends, amusements, and vices were chosen.

And that is why I cannot give pederasty anything like a first place among the evils of the Coll. There is much hypocrisy on this theme. People commonly talk as if every other evil were more tolerable than this.

Because those of us who do not share the vice feel for it a certain nausea, as we do, say, for necrophily? I think that of very little relevance to moral judgment.

Because it produces permanent perversion? But there is very little evidence that it does. The Bloods would have preferred girls to boys if they could have come by them; when, at a later age, girls were obtainable, they probably took them. Is it then on Christian grounds? But how many of those who fulminate on the matter are Celibate homosexual relationships in greece fact Christians?

And what Christian, in a society as worldly and cruel as that of Wyvern, would pick out the carnal sins for special reprobation?

Cruelty is surely more evil than lust and the World at least as dangerous as the Flesh.

Eugene Peterson and same-sex marriage:...

The real reason for all the pother is, in my opinion, neither Christian nor ethical. We attack this vice not because it is the worst but because it is, by adult standards, the most disreputable and unmentionable, and happens also to be a crime in English law. The world may lead you only to Hell; but sodomy may lead you to jail and creat a scandal, and lose you your job.

The World, to do it justice, seldom "Celibate homosexual relationships in greece" that. If those of us who have known a school like Wyvern dared to speak the truth, we should have to say that pederasty, however great an evil in itself, was, in that time and place, the only foothold or cranny left for certain good things. It was the only counterpoise to the social struggle; the one oasis though green only with weeds and moist only with fetid water in the burning desert of competitive ambition.

In his unnatural love affairs, and perhaps only there, the Blood went a little out of himself, forgot for a few hours that he was One of the Most Important People There Are. It softens the picture. A perversion was the only chink left through which something spontaneous and uncalculating could creep in. Plato was Celibate homosexual relationships in greece after all. Eros, turned upside down, blackened, distorted, and filthy, still bore the traces of his divinity. However, I saw as clearly as Lewis did that this was neither Christian nor ethical.

If it were really trying to be faithful to Scripture, they would notice that the very same vice lists that condemned homosexual activity also condemned fornication, and treat both vices in the same way. In fact, however, the attitude toward the two vices was dramatically different. When pastors and Christian friends talked this way, the obvious hypocrisy undermined their credibility and, by extension, the credibility of their Christian witness.

It was a relief to finally find a Christian who did not despise me and find me disgusting just because I was attracted to other guys. Anyabwile finds so disgusting. Nevertheless, in spite of remaining celibate, it was clear that people like Mr.

Anyabwile found me gag inducing. Not one hit Forgiveness: Not one hit Cross: For those who think Mr. Hmm, while that does raise some eye-brows, I caution against such rigid litmus tests. Most certainly — his friends will admit that. Also pray that he engage with someone like you or I, who can honestly challenge him: I also look at the context in which these words are used. Anyabwile case, for instance, the word grace was not used in the sense of offering mercy and grace to those who are attracted to their own gender.

Anyabwile, the manner in which forgiveness is addressed. He may not change it as much as I would like to see but the manner in Celibate homosexual relationships in greece he used forgiveness shows the intent is there. This does not mean I am giving Pastor Deyoung a pass. But it does mean that when he speaks the Law to homosexuals or about homosexuals, I am going to listen to him with a much more positive attitude than when I read what Mr.

Reblogged this on Contra Naturam and commented: Two Quotes from C. I wonder, though, how Lewis would explain the fact that many find homosexual Celibate homosexual relationships in greece disgusting even though it is no longer a crime in England or in America and even before Lawrence v.

Pederasty or paederasty is a...

Texas, the law was rarely enforced in the few states where it was still on the books. A Tentative Consideration Spiritual Friendship. I actually always found that passage in Surprised by Joy somewhat surprising. The fact is, other sins may indeed be reprehensible, but his descriptions of the pederasty at his school really are horrifying. I suppose I am one of those Christians whom he addresses his aside to, who are wondering at the way in which he has described such evils while seeming to gloss over the natural sense of revulsion, essentially saying: Maybe I am, and my respect for Lewis has always urged me to assume that there is more to what he is saying than I am immediately perceiving.

As a Catholic and a ThomistI do not normally find myself on Protestant blogs. However, it seems Mr Anyabwile, while certainly wrong on a variety of other theological points unrelated to this topic, is actually pretty accurate with the sense of disgust the Church should have toward Sodomy. Homosexuality should indeed reduce us to a gag-reflex.

It is against nature to such an extreme Celibate homosexual relationships in greece it represents a thorough departure from natural laws that can be known by reason. Fornication, for example, while still sin, is not equivalent in the eyes of God. It still conforms to the natural good of men and women procreating, even though it is out of the proper context. This is not to say it is not also egregious, but it is not equivalent to pure perversity that is intrinsically ordered toward nothing but physical pleasure.

The overwhelming majority of abortions in this country are the result of fornication. I would not be so cavalier about fornication if I were you. Fornication and abortion are not the same. They are two separate sins related but not the same and not inevitable consequences.

You accuse me of being cavalier with no evidence. Homosexuality is vile and especially terrible. This is not an endorsement of fornication or abortion. Very good conversation, on the whole. Lewis only describes consensual sexual behavior between the boys at the school. He describes one case of an older boy trying unsuccessfully to force a younger boy to sleep with him, and condemns the attempt at coercion much more harshly than he condemns the other boys.

He does not discuss or even hint at abuse by adult men. Our brains may be more evolved than any other species, but we are still bound to the rules of nature and genetics. However much we may want to believe that we transcend base feelings and desires, our behaviors are shaped by our hormones, chemical reactions in our bodies, signals from our brains and bodies in response to external stimuli, etc.

Sexual orientation in many cases is hardwired into our brains, and suggesting that human "Celibate homosexual relationships in greece" as a higher order species can just ignore that for whatever religious or personal beliefs is Celibate homosexual relationships in greece unrealistic. If changing sexual orientation through behavioral modification is as plausible as you suggest, then it must be true both ways: In fact, several medical organizations such as the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Psychiatric Association have reported that, after many years of studies and reviews on the subject, behavioral modification attempts have been largely futile and confirmed to be harmful, with lasting psychological damage and trauma on the victims.

Day of Silence Spiritual Friendship.

Only a few percent of the Celibate homosexual relationships in greece is GLBT. Imagine how quickly a congregation will give such a pastor the bums rush if he were to attack divorced people in the same way that he attacks GLBT people.

Brandon Ambrosino was Wrong About C. I know this is an older thread but wanted to thank all involved for the intelligent and civil conversation. It is a relief to find people who are willing to converse about incredibly difficult topics without resorting to insults or worse. Societal attitudes towards same-sex relationships, reflected in the attitude of and even encouragement of pederastic relationships (as in Ancient Greece), Choose to remain celibate or attempt to change their orientation to.

Traditionally, the church has condemned homosexual relationships, and many . The word arsenokoitai is a compound work in Greek, and the parts of the of celibacy for Christians; he believed that remaining single and celibate was the.

the good company which celibate, same-sex attracted believers need progressive understanding of same-sex marriage, I often feel like I am fight- . 8 John Piper, “To the Jew First, and Also to the Greek,” desiringGod (July 5, ), www.