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Websleuths News

Join Websleuths Radio for the final discussion of THE KILLING SEASON
with Josh Zemam, Rachel Mills and special guests including Bob Kolker author of Lost Girls

Not So Crazy Now!

Some of us have argued whether or not it's plausible that a man could molest his own daughter because his wife either won't or can't "perform." Several of you discounted the idea right out of hand.

Well, what if I told you that such a thing were not only possible, it's already HAPPENED?

Last night, purely by chance, I became aware of a book titled Redemption written by a woman named Stacey Lannert. In it, she tells the story of how she killed her abusive father and how she only recently won release from prison. On Joy Behar's show last night, Ms Lannert was interviewed at length, and she said a few things that got my meter buzzing.

Stacey's father began abusing her when she was 8 years old. Up to then, he'd been a "lovely" (her word) husband and father. He CHOSE to use Stacey for his outlet for precisely the reasons I've mentioned: because she was easy to control and loved her "Daddy." In fact, it went on for four years before Stacey told anybody. And even then, nobody did anything about it.

Secondly, and here's where it gets really nasty, Stacey's own mother, Debbie, was ALSO molested by HER father. Stacey's grandmother KNEW this, passing it off by saying that "he only does it when he's drunk." Sounds like a classic enabler to me. It also reminds me uncomfortably of Nedra Paugh's remark that JB was "only a little bit molested." She--Stacey's grandmother--even DISOWNED Debbie when she decided to stand by her daughter at the trial, along with the rest of the family. They didn't think molestation was any big deal and that Stacey had acted out of some "womanly" foolishness. This was AFTER Debbie had spent Stacey's childhood doing the same thing HER mother had done! Now, I've often wondered if PR was abused herself. If so, it ties into this and the next point:

Stacey said that her father got the idea to molest her FROM her grandfather. Specifically, Dad told Grandpa, "Debbie's cold, she's not giving me any." And Gramps replied, "If ya can't get it from Debbie, take it from Stacey. Worked for me." Given that, it's not too difficult to picture Don and JR engaging in a little "man talk."

Fourth, the idea has been batted around that JR would not have molested just one child. Well, that's what happened to Stacey! Her younger sister was completely spared from Dad's abuse UNTIL Stacey was 18 and announced she was moving out. Dad molested Sis right in front of her and said, "Go ahead and leave. SHE's your replacement."

Thanks, Dave. The really sad part of this is that it's NOT uncommon. I'm sure there are plenty of posters here at WS that underwent the same kind of abuse when they were children. It really makes my blood boil when people give any of the Ramseys a pass on this because they are simply too good to have done this to Jonbenet. One would have to be living with their head in the sand to believe this way. It's possible that she was never abused by anyone but it's much more probable that she was. The funny thing, in this case, is WHY would anyone give the Ramsey men a pass, without knowing them personally?

Last edited by joeskidbeck; 03-17-2011 at 03:49 PM.
Reason: spelling

"This Time We Get it Right!"

"For those who believe, no proof is necessary.For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

It is common for abusers to single out one particular child for abuse- perhaps because they are either more fearful, timid or easily controlled. Threats work very well on children- I'll harm your puppy, mommy, baby sister, favorite dolly, etc. They really, truly are afraid to tell. So they keep it inside- children sometimes find ways to cope, sometimes building an entire fantasy world where they are loved and cared for, to help them "escape".
Yet, it is also known that fathers who sexually abuse their kids will often go right on down the "line" to younger children when their victim grows strong enough to stop them.
I think of MacKenzie Phillips- who had a "consensual" sexual relationship with her father. He did not abuse other daughters, just her. And it began when she was far too young to "consent". I wonder if her own perception of it being consensual was because her father "reminded" her that she was a willing participant. That is also abusive, IMO.

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

Some of us have argued whether or not it's plausible that a man could molest his own daughter because his wife either won't or can't "perform." Several of you discounted the idea right out of hand.

Well, what if I told you that such a thing were not only possible, it's already HAPPENED?

Last night, purely by chance, I became aware of a book titled Redemption written by a woman named Stacey Lannert. In it, she tells the story of how she killed her abusive father and how she only recently won release from prison. On Joy Behar's show last night, Ms Lannert was interviewed at length, and she said a few things that got my meter buzzing.

Stacey's father began abusing her when she was 8 years old. Up to then, he'd been a "lovely" (her word) husband and father. He CHOSE to use Stacey for his outlet for precisely the reasons I've mentioned: because she was easy to control and loved her "Daddy." In fact, it went on for four years before Stacey told anybody. And even then, nobody did anything about it.

Secondly, and here's where it gets really nasty, Stacey's own mother, Debbie, was ALSO molested by HER father. Stacey's grandmother KNEW this, passing it off by saying that "he only does it when he's drunk." Sounds like a classic enabler to me. It also reminds me uncomfortably of Nedra Paugh's remark that JB was "only a little bit molested." She--Stacey's grandmother--even DISOWNED Debbie when she decided to stand by her daughter at the trial, along with the rest of the family. They didn't think molestation was any big deal and that Stacey had acted out of some "womanly" foolishness. This was AFTER Debbie had spent Stacey's childhood doing the same thing HER mother had done! Now, I've often wondered if PR was abused herself. If so, it ties into this and the next point:

Stacey said that her father got the idea to molest her FROM her grandfather. Specifically, Dad told Grandpa, "Debbie's cold, she's not giving me any." And Gramps replied, "If ya can't get it from Debbie, take it from Stacey. Worked for me." Given that, it's not too difficult to picture Don and JR engaging in a little "man talk."

Fourth, the idea has been batted around that JR would not have molested just one child. Well, that's what happened to Stacey! Her younger sister was completely spared from Dad's abuse UNTIL Stacey was 18 and announced she was moving out. Dad molested Sis right in front of her and said, "Go ahead and leave. SHE's your replacement."

She said a few other things, too, but I reckon this'll do!

The only thing I have to say to this is: Been there Done that Burned the damn t-shirt. Men molest one child all the time....and when they become difficult, tell or are too old for the offenders target age...they move on...Rotters. Happened to me and my Dad sad it was becuase I was attractive to him and sooo sexual...yeah at three one is sexual. UGH. Mom did absolutely nothing....and it is about power. JR could have done it...IDK but it is possible. Anyone says it isn't can talk to me.

What really shocked me, was when Stacey Lannert
described how utterly alone and isolated she had become.
Even when her babysitter, the wife of a police officer appraoched her, and SL confided the truth, nothing happened!

The only thing I have to say to this is: Been there Done that Burned the damn t-shirt. Men molest one child all the time....and when they become difficult, tell or are too old for the offenders target age...they move on...Rotters. Happened to me and my Dad sad it was because I was attractive to him and sooo sexual...yeah at three one is sexual. UGH. Mom did absolutely nothing....and it is about power. JR could have done it...IDK but it is possible. Anyone says it isn't can talk to me.

Stilletos, I'm so sorry for what you have had to endure. I hope you have been able to get some help since then. The more i read about crime and family dysfunction, the more appalled I am. Mostly because it is so much more common then I'd have ever believed, but also because of the nature of incest, it can go on for generations, and the victims just keep multiplying. In Jonbenet's case, because the parents felt so entitled, had so much money, and could buy legal, LE, and pretty much any thing/one they felt they needed to insulate themselves and protect their secrets. Who knows if she had been abused by by her grandfather as well as one of her parents.
ETA . . It seems the more money and power there is Ie. church, government & other institutions, the easier & longer it is that the abuse goes on and can be hidden.

Some of us have argued whether or not it's plausible that a man could molest his own daughter because his wife either won't or can't "perform." Several of you discounted the idea right out of hand.

Well, what if I told you that such a thing were not only possible, it's already HAPPENED?

Last night, purely by chance, I became aware of a book titled Redemption written by a woman named Stacey Lannert. In it, she tells the story of how she killed her abusive father and how she only recently won release from prison. On Joy Behar's show last night, Ms Lannert was interviewed at length, and she said a few things that got my meter buzzing.

Stacey's father began abusing her when she was 8 years old. Up to then, he'd been a "lovely" (her word) husband and father. He CHOSE to use Stacey for his outlet for precisely the reasons I've mentioned: because she was easy to control and loved her "Daddy." In fact, it went on for four years before Stacey told anybody. And even then, nobody did anything about it.

Secondly, and here's where it gets really nasty, Stacey's own mother, Debbie, was ALSO molested by HER father. Stacey's grandmother KNEW this, passing it off by saying that "he only does it when he's drunk." Sounds like a classic enabler to me. It also reminds me uncomfortably of Nedra Paugh's remark that JB was "only a little bit molested." She--Stacey's grandmother--even DISOWNED Debbie when she decided to stand by her daughter at the trial, along with the rest of the family. They didn't think molestation was any big deal and that Stacey had acted out of some "womanly" foolishness. This was AFTER Debbie had spent Stacey's childhood doing the same thing HER mother had done! Now, I've often wondered if PR was abused herself. If so, it ties into this and the next point:

Stacey said that her father got the idea to molest her FROM her grandfather. Specifically, Dad told Grandpa, "Debbie's cold, she's not giving me any." And Gramps replied, "If ya can't get it from Debbie, take it from Stacey. Worked for me." Given that, it's not too difficult to picture Don and JR engaging in a little "man talk."

Fourth, the idea has been batted around that JR would not have molested just one child. Well, that's what happened to Stacey! Her younger sister was completely spared from Dad's abuse UNTIL Stacey was 18 and announced she was moving out. Dad molested Sis right in front of her and said, "Go ahead and leave. SHE's your replacement."

She said a few other things, too, but I reckon this'll do!

IMO, abusers are going to abuse regardless of whether their partner is or is not performing. Apparently that's a go-to excuse for some of them ... along the lines of "she asked for it" and "I was drunk" but they are deviants who just look for easy access to a victim.

I believe JonBenet was sexually abused. I believe that Patsy probably turned a blind eye to it and also that it's possible there was sexual abuse in Patsy's family history. I do not believe that John abused JonBenet because Patsy wouldn't/couldn't perform. If he did it, it was inevitable and had nothing to do with how eager Patsy was in bed.

Maybe not. But it means he COULD have. Someone in that house did. THAT is a FACT. There are 4/5 possible suspects, IMO, that had the access to JB that would be needed for repeated molestation. Patsy, JR, BR and JAR. Grandpa P was a fifth, with regular access, even if not daily access.

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

JonBenet was three years old when Patsy developed Cancer. She went through chemotherapy and was very ill for months. She slept alone in JAR's room, so she and John were not intimate during that time.
John was not getting any sex from his wife, and it could be possible he turned to JonBenet. Even Patsy said she had a fleeting thought that John could be possibly molesting her daughter...but then she dismisses it by saying Nedra slept in JB's room. Why would Patsy even be thinking that way if she hadn't experienced something similar herself. Patsy was having a hard time pleasing John because she asked LHP if she had any sexual tips.
Lastly Stiletto, I am so sorry you went through that. I can't even fathom it..

...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

Nedra may have slept in JB's room ON OCCASION, but Nedra lived in Atlanta. She didn't care for Boulder, and referred to it as a "hellhole". Obviously the molester in the family wouldn't come into JB's room with Nedra in the other twin bed. But to dismiss the possibility that JR ( or BR or JAR) was molesting JB simply because once in a while Nedra slept in there is just one more pathetic form of a mother's denial of her child's abuse by a family member.
I mean...Nedra didn't even come to Boulder when her daughter needed her most- when JB was killed. I guess she stayed in Atlanta planning the fancy funeral.

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

I agree that no matter the socio-economic status, or community standing of the molester, incest has most likely occurred since the beginning of humans. Tragically, it occurred to a relative of mine, and the mother, also my relative, did nothing. Despite a trip to the hospital, and injuries to a very young child which required surgery, and even though Child Protective Services got involved, my relative choose to believe whatever excuse her husband gave her. My personal opinion is that it was easier for her to believe what she wanted to believe because embracing the truth would have demanded a response from her that could have changed her life. So, it was easier to go on in her own version of reality because then she could stay with her husband, and not have to go on her own. Just my opinion, but it seems wives/mothers have a psychotic-like ability to not acknowledge what they don't want to know.

The relative who was the victim ( and later I believe her younger sister was designated her replacement) never had any children - probably because of the injuries she suffered - I don't know for certain. The younger sister is extremely obese, and overall this family demonstrates much dysfunction. Very tragic.

Last edited by Kateyes; 03-19-2011 at 01:42 AM.
Reason: correct typo - the word "he" should have been "her"