I guess I can understand some frustration on the change, but to be honest (and owning a front set of mixed V2s and V3s) I can tell you that I cannot really tell that much of a timbre or overall sound difference between the VP180 (v3) and my M80s (v2).

I invited my wife down to the man-cave last night to listen to some music. I had recently recalibrated my system for the back center seat because the VP180 was just so much more powerful than the VP150. In the end, I had to take the rears down a bit, and set the VP180 to the same level as the M80s. The sound was mesmerizing. Even sitting in the back row left and right seats, you could hear the centers coming from the center channel. The surround sounded better in the back row too becuase of my surround and rear speaker placement. After a couple of songs, my wife said it sounded like a totally different system and she really enjoyed it. We went down again this afternoon (at her request) to listen some more. It was a very enjoyable experience.

In the end, as others have said, technology is always changing. I bought my Denon AVR-3806 a couple of months before the AVR-3808 was released, and that was a MAJOR change. With the Denon, I had no option of upgrading, with the Axioms, you do.

I believe that they should be giving out a discount upgrade package to existing Axiom customers. I have 2 of their HT setups and while I do love my speakers, I can't help but feeling a bit screwed in a way. Upon visual inspection, my VP180 clearly has different tweeters than that of my M80's(original Ti version). Whether or not a difference can be heard, I'd find it hard to believe that speakers with different components can be called timber matched.

I’m actually a bit put off by the review Ian posted because of what it implies about the M80v2:

Quote:

“The changes that you've made to the M80s are not subtle. It is that different! The first thing that I noticed was that the sound stage increased, dramatically. I describe it now as voluminous, wide and deep but at the same time, minutely precise. It's like the curtains were pulled back away from the stage. The sound field increased in all dimensions. I especially hear a lot more spatial depth. It's much easier to locate the position of performers in the sound field. The sound is especially seductive. It wraps around you.

Translation: The M80v2 has a thin soundstage lacking depth and precision while sounding somewhat muffled.

Quote:

The sound seems much more uniform over all frequencies. . . . This is how I feel about these speakers. My impression is that you've particularly smoothed out the transition between the mid range and highs.

Translation: The M80v2s exhibit an uneven frequency response particularly when transitioning between the highs and mids.

Quote:

I am particularly blown away by the high end of these speakers. There's a new precision and GREATLY increased detail in the sound. . . . I'm hearing the 'core' of the sound with all music through this system like never before. Solo instruments and voices sound live, with minute detail in the sound. . . . I listened to a lot of music louder than one probably should and the sound was not fatiguing. There's so much space around the upper frequencies. . . . Additionally, there's a nice big fat, spacious area in the mids. Also of note are trumpets and brass. Rather than going 'ouch' on a loud passage, you get chills. Again, 'expansive' comes to mind. . . .

Translation: On the M80v2 the high end lacks precision/detail giving the sound a “recorded/reproduced” quality. Listening to them is fatiguing and even painful during loud passages. Also, the mids sound a bit sucked out.

About a year back the Skiing Ninja made similar comments on the Tweak City forums about a new crossover he designed for an AV123 speaker. The implication to the owners was that the speakers they presently had sounded like crap but would be greatly improved by replacing the crossover. The Ninja was taken to task by the speaker’s owners for the way he made those comments. This review about the M80v3 compared to the M80v2 gives me the same bad vibe. IMO singing the praises of the M80v3 could have been done more subtly and w/o essentially putting down the M80v2 in the process. I know that was not the intent but it was the result.

Note that I’m not criticizing Axiom for improving it’s speakers nor wanting to share their enthusiasm for the improvements. I just preferred the way the transition from “ti” to “v2” was handled (more subtly). This was handled much more like other companies do when rolling out a new speakers model even though the improvement process (incrementally upgrading) was still the same. Sure it will all blow over shortly and the hoopla will likely generate more sales than it looses but it moves Axiom one step closer to being like “all the other companies” IMO. Offering upgrade kits does mitigate this somewhat though at that price IMO it opens the door to reevaluating other brands which one can surmise have also undergone improvements over time.

You bring up some excellent points ONCE AGAIN grunt. Not even being an M80 owner I was kind of put off by the puff piece response from Axiom "touting" the M80 v3 over the v2 version. Its not appropriate to Axioms philosophy of remaining objective. If it was complaints being posted, then subjective opinions on the product would be scrutinized.

I think most of the questions and concerns that are being raised could have been avoided by better communication from Axiom and the 4 man council regarding the transition to the v3 and explaining specific objective modifications to atleast its existing customer whether through their mailing list or some general announcement in the newsletter or forum. Still to this point the modifications implemented in v3 are quite vague. I am sure people are happy with their products no matter what version they have but the v3 execution to the public was poor IMO. Sorry folks.

The fact that even new VP180 owners didn't know they were getting a v3 speaker with cosmetic changes that were different from their current speakers, I just have to shake my head at.

_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

I am very pleased that axiom has released the V3's. I would be disappointed if axiom wasn't releasing new products and improving existing ones. After all, if they weren't in the business of improving their products we would all be stuck with ti's

I suppose the improvements really were significant or they wouldn't have discontinued the trade-up program. Now it's, "Good luck auctioning your outdated, under-performing gear!" Ha ha. That's me being a bit extreme, but I wouldn't guess that the timing is a coincidence. As I said before, I'm glad they're moving forward with the performance and look of their products. I simply need to be richer to keep up with it.

Take this for what it is, a biased opinion, but I'm confident the VP180 will work equally well with v2 OR v3 series products. Extensive listening was performed against both the M80v2 and M80v3 while the VP180 was being developed and I feel it's an excellent match with either.

You bring up some excellent points ONCE AGAIN grunt. Not even being an M80 owner I was kind of put off by the puff piece response from Axiom "touting" the M80 v3 over the v2 version. Its not appropriate to Axioms philosophy of remaining objective. If it was complaints being posted, then subjective opinions on the product would be scrutinized.

Well I held off as long as I could posting my comments on that review hoping that someone else would take a swing at it, but I bit my tongue (so to speak) as long as I could and finally felt compelled to say something. I agree if someone had complained several people would have chimed in.

Quote:

I think most of the questions and concerns that are being raised could have been avoided by better communication from Axiom and the 4 man council regarding the transition to the v3 and explaining specific objective modifications made. Still to this point the modifications are quite vague. I am sure people are happy with their products no matter what version they have but the v3 execution to the public was poor IMO. Sorry folks. ￼

I agree that Axiom could have communicated better but I hesitate to draw the customer council into rollout discussion. I’m not 100% clear on their mandate but hope that it is strictly to act as a sounding board for Axiom and not a conduit of information from Axiom to the forum. IMO that marginalizes them as “members” by turning them into “spokesmen.“

Quote:

The fact that even new VP180 owners didn't know they were getting a v3 speaker with cosmetic changes that were different from their current speakers, I just have to shake my head at. ￼

Had I purchased one I would have liked the option to have the older style drivers and grill shipped to match my existing speakers. Perhaps it was calculated that the majority wouldn’t care about that and anyone who did would be taken care of on a case-by-case basis.