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Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

And once again, Philly without Jrue (not to mention Bynum) isn't a winning team, that's the team we beat. Dallas without Dirk isn't a winning team. That's the team we beat. I understand you can only beat the teams put before you, but stop running out these games as evidence we beat good teams, because it's anything but.

I'm just trying to set the record straight in this whole "cannot beat good teams" storyline. It did happen, Dece. We beat those teams. They were over .500 at the time we beat them. You just cannot erase history.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

I'm just trying to set the record straight in this whole "cannot beat good teams" storyline. It did happen, Dece. We beat those teams. They were over .500 at the time we beat them. You just cannot erase history.

Philly played without Jrue 4 games. They went 0-4 and lost by an average of double digits. They are not a good team without Jrue no matter how you want to frame it.

Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

Philly played without Jrue 4 games. They went 0-4 and lost by an average of double digits. They are not a good team without Jrue no matter how you want to frame it.

Did I say that they were a good team without him?

No. I just said that they had a winning record. Because they did.

Isn't it all about records in the whole over .500 talk? 'Cause if it wasn't all about records and it was about actual strength (including injuries) then one would say that the Pacers would get some more respect for being 17 - 13 without their best player.

You cannot have it both ways

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Isn't it all about records in the whole over .500 talk? 'Cause if it wasn't all about records and it was about actual strength (including injuries) then one would say that the Pacers would get some more respect for being 17 - 13 without their best player.

You cannot have it both ways

If you divorce winning record from good team then what exactly is the point of the argument?

I was just mad Violet Palmer was a referee for the game. She is and always has been terrible. The flagrant on Lance was a complete joke.

I actually liked the officiating most of the game. It wasn't game-changing. And I thought the flagrant 1 was a good call. The play before Lance had gotten beat because they ran a play where they had 3 guys repeatedly setting screens for Lance's guy to get open and he finally lost the shooter. He was frustrated, he lowered his shoulder and took out Korver.

Now, I think the player where Ivan Johnson tackled Lance while holding on to the ball should have also been fragrant; that was just not the logical path for Johnson to take to pull the ball away.

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Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

We're exactly what I said we were, a fringe good team hoping getting a big piece back will make a huge impact. We are a fringe .500 team. Sorta good. Ok. A team gunning for a 7 or 8 seed hoping their one time all star will make them able to compete with ACTUAL good teams, the 1-4 seeds. Just like Philly (with Jrue), a team a touch over .500 hoping for Bynum to make the difference. Just like the Mavs, a team hanging around .500 hoping Dirk will make the difference. These teams are all HOPING they can be feared later, but none of them can be really feared at this point, none of them are truly contenders, and good teams will continue to take games from them at a high rate.

Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

Generally, if a team is over 500, it means they are defending homecourt pretty well.

/QED

To be specific on that, the Pacers are 3-11 against over .500 teams. 11 of those have been on the road, where the Pacers are 2-9. The Pacers are 1-2 at home this season against .500 or better teams. It's certainly possible that the Pacers will just continue to be terrible against .500 teams, but it is also pretty plausible that as they start playing mostly home games against those teams that they'll start winning a better percentage of those games. The evidence is inconclusive at this point, but history says it's more likely to be the latter.

I can see some evidence of good coaching going on. They have really worked with Tyler to accentuate what he does well and diminish what he's terrible at, and he's been much more efficient this year than last as a result. Lance and Paul continue to mature, and I think they are starting to get a better handle on what Green does well also (although he didn't shoot well tonight).

Kind of hard to describe the game tonight. Loved the effort at times, but at the same time felt like it wasn't even as close as the final score.

Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

If you want to continue to make the argument that we beat over .500 teams who are not good teams as a meaningful argument then continue to do so but I'm not seeing it.

My main argument is that the statistic is incosistent. It flip flops based on several factors. Injuries, schedule, home and aways. It's not a statistic that you can look at and draw meaningful conclusions as it is prone to changes due to hot or cold streaks. Especially, early in the season. Later in the season it becomes dependable, yes. But prior to the ASG it doesn't really mean a lot to me.

That's my point.

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

I would kill to have Williams or Korver. Hell I'd take the rookie from Vandy. But ,no, we have to continue to suffer Green & DJ. This team needs a dead eye shooter something fierce. Would add a whole new dimension.

Anyway, I liked Tyler's rebounding a lot. Liked PG pretty well minus the TOs. Lance with another solid effort. West was great offensively but what's with the four boards?

Roy? PATHETIC.

Defense overall? PATHETIC,

The latter ultimately can be boiled down to not bringing intensity on that side of the ball until the 4th qtr. The former, I just have no idea, but it's really frustrating.

Re: Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 12/29/12

Isn't Ivan Johnson crazy at the same level as Ron Artest? Be careful what you wish for..

Well, to be honest, to the best of my knowledge, Ron has never been banned for life from professional basketball in an entire country.....

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