Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:00 am

by Cyath

So I've led a long and interesting life and have had my eyes forcibly opened to the existence of Spirit in many ways and forms. Tolle is by no means new to me, and I think he has a lot of good points, but I am not sure whether I 100% believe everything and whether he is really enlightened or not.

I don't mean to disrespect the man, just that I think it's prudent to take everything with a grain of salt.

So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?

I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?

3. He doesn't seem very specific on how to continue living on in a world where most people are unawakened even if you are awakening/awakening (and I don't think I am THAT good...)

4. It's nice to think on how all challenges that everyone experiences are the Universe awakening itself though

Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:38 am

by Webwanderer

Tolle is by no means new to me, and I think he has a lot of good points, but I am not sure whether I 100% believe everything and whether he is really enlightened or not.

Welcome to the forum Cyath.

I agree that believing any teaching 100 per cent is mostly a mistake. (I believe that 100 per cent! ) Er... back on topic... Anyway, a 100 per cent belief in anything tends to lock one out of a larger understanding. Why consider additional possibilities if you're already certain 100 per cent? That said, the other extreme of taking his teachings with 'a grain of salt' seems also counter productive. A whole lot of people have had life changing experiences through consideration of his teaching. That's pretty good evidence that something substantive is going on.

A better road suggests that one might take any teachings that brings us a sense of expansion as to its self-evident value toward our exploration of this human experience. No one is getting off this merry go round of life simply by awakening to the understanding that we are not what we 'think' we are. While valuable in moderating emotional engagement, and making sense out of the events and conditions of our lives, awakening is not the end of anything so much as it is a better way of looking at life in general.

Is Tolle 'enlightened'? In my opinion, yes and no. He certainly seems enlightened compared to where he was before he had his initial awakening experience. The books he has written and the teachings he's offered, point to a much clearer understanding than was present in his earlier life. But does he know everything? I doubt it.

Many on this forum, and elsewhere, have reported awakenings of their own. Is that the end of further growth in clarity? Not likely. I strongly suspect it's that way for Tolle too.

Over my time in the forum, I've written a fair number of insightful posts. Some readers might even agree with me... Those insights seem to come best when I get quiet and feel the flow of clarity that has grown over the years. Is that enlightenment? Like with Tolle, yes and no. I certainly know more than I did in earlier years, but then life still has its challenges. Maybe the challenges are a bit different, but seem no less numerous. I perceive it is that way for many.

WW

Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

So I've led a long and interesting life and have had my eyes forcibly opened to the existence of Spirit in many ways and forms. Tolle is by no means new to me, and I think he has a lot of good points, but I am not sure whether I 100% believe everything and whether he is really enlightened or not.

I don't mean to disrespect the man, just that I think it's prudent to take everything with a grain of salt.

So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?

I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?

3. He doesn't seem very specific on how to continue living on in a world where most people are unawakened even if you are awakening/awakening (and I don't think I am THAT good...)

4. It's nice to think on how all challenges that everyone experiences are the Universe awakening itself though

Hello. :- )

In my opinion, this kind of questions happens everytime we use language/form/rationalization in order to try to mentally understand what these "presence/non-dualism/meditation" teachings truly and really are about.

In another words: these teachings were and are discussed by several different sources: buddhism (and its different schools), independent authors, etc. But can you understand that when we put these teaching into words, we are putting them into form? We are trying to explain something that is beyond/previous to form using literally a form we created: the language.

A zen master and sensei in my country tells a great history about this. When he was a student-monk in Japan, he asked to his master: "If language is form, a thing that we mentally created, why a lot of monks, masters and teachers write and talk about these teachings?", and his teacher answerd wonderfully: "Because that's all we have." In another words, think/talk/write about these teachings can give some insights and can help us to realize a little better what all this really are about. But, when we think/talk/write about these teachings, in the best scenario we will just do some kind of rational approximation. As the real universe are actually non-dualistic (we, using our mind, that separate individual, objects and events), these teachings are beyond/previous to form. So, you will never encounter some writing/speaching about this that is 100% "correct" and "coherent". That's why is so difficult to think about it.

I can be wrong, but in my opinion it's very good for you to read and hear about it, because you will have a lot of "a-ha" moments using that tool. But, in the end, we just have to bring our selves to the present moment the most that we can and experience what this practice actually is about. Drop every rule, concept, thinking about everything you every heard about it, and just be present the most you can.

Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?

Yes, when we live in alignment with our inner/primary purpose, we will still have to make a living and pay our bills... but these activities will no longer be just a means to an end (which sooner or later creates suffering... maybe in the form of anxiety, fatigue, irritation, boredom, etc.). Instead, these actions (...all actions) will be empowered with Presence (meaning that there will be great quality, care, and attention in what is being done, no matter how simple the action is).

When we are Present/"awake", there is a deep peace/sense of fulfillment (it may appear to be subtle, or strong, or seeming to fluctuate between the two... but it's undeniably there). This peace/fulfillment is the "joy of Being" or "true happiness."

Whenever we want something, don't we want it because we think it will make us happy/fulfill us?... So, essentially, we don't want anything other than to be happy, right?... When we are Present/"awake"/fulfilling our inner purpose, we see that we already have the one and only thing we ever really wanted... Therefore, we could say that the Universe has granted us everything we wanted.

I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?

It isn't possible to be identified with the mind and feel deep inner peace. So, when you "went within the body" and experienced deep inner peace, you weren't identified with your mind. So, you've directly experienced that it's completely possible.

As for whether or not Eckhart is enlightened, I don't think anyone can say for sure one way or the other... (I think this is true for anyone, not just Eckhart... I mean, who's to say, right?). However, he certainly seems to be coming from a place of deep peace, sincere kindness, and great gentleness... And his teachings have helped me out tremendously (as I'm sure is true for many, many others)... So, I'm not sure if it even matters if he's technically "enlightened" or not... (whatever being "technically enlightened" means ).

Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?

Yes, when we live in alignment with our inner/primary purpose, we will still have to make a living and pay our bills... but these activities will no longer be just a means to an end (which sooner or later creates suffering... maybe in the form of anxiety, fatigue, irritation, boredom, etc.). Instead, these actions (...all actions) will be empowered with Presence (meaning that there will be great quality, care, and attention in what is being done, no matter how simple the action is).

When we are Present/"awake", there is a deep peace/sense of fulfillment (it may appear to be subtle, or strong, or seeming to fluctuate between the two... but it's undeniably there). This peace/fulfillment is the "joy of Being" or "true happiness."

Whenever we want something, don't we want it because we think it will make us happy/fulfill us?... So, essentially, we don't want anything other than to be happy, right?... When we are Present/"awake"/fulfilling our inner purpose, we see that we already have the one and only thing we ever really wanted... Therefore, we could say that the Universe has granted us everything we wanted.

I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?

It isn't possible to be identified with the mind and feel deep inner peace. So, when you "went within the body" and experienced deep inner peace, you weren't identified with your mind. So, you've directly experienced that it's completely possible.

As for whether or not Eckhart is enlightened, I don't think anyone can say for sure one way or the other... (I think this is true for anyone, not just Eckhart... I mean, who's to say, right?). However, he certainly seems to be coming from a place of deep peace, sincere kindness, and great gentleness... And his teachings have helped me out tremendously (as I'm sure is true for many, many others)... So, I'm not sure if it even matters if he's technically "enlightened" or not... (whatever being "technically enlightened" means ).

Hello, turiya. I guess you quoted the wrong person, hehehehe. Who said these were Cyath. :- )

Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.