Don't look now, but the Indians have acquired an All-Star caliber 3rd basemen for nothing.

Jack Hannahan, at the age of 32, has turned himself into one of the better 3rd basemen in baseball. He bottomed out offensively last season, hitting .184 in May, .180 in June, and .207 in July. Chisenhall was called up at age 21, before he was ready, because the Indians were in contention and simply could not afford to have an offensive black hole at 3rd base. It looked like Hannahan's career was over.

In desparation he switched to a heavier bat and stopped trying to hit home runs. The results were dramatic. He hit .364 in August and September. So far this season he's at .287/.365/.436. It's still early, but his numbers project to .287/.801 OPS with 14 HR's and 86 RBI. That's from the 9 hole in the batting order. Add in his stellar defense and we have one of the best 3rd basemen in baseball.

Since Aug. 1 he's hitting .320 in 178 at-bats. He's not a .320 hitter, but I see no reason he won't be good for .280/14/85 for the foreseeable future.

My point is that at age 32 he should be able to maintain this level of play, or close to it, for another 2-4 years. He's never been seriously injured, like Hafner, and his game doesn't depend on speed.

In that case, what do we do with Chisenhall? He's hitting .326/.913 at Columbus. They say he's still having trouble with left-handed pitching and strikes out too much, but he did hit 4 HR's against lefties in Cleveland last year in minimal at-bats.

I say we sign Hannahan to a three-year deal and give Chiz a first basemen's mitt. He's not in Hannahan's class defensively at 3rd and we desparately need a bat at first base. Kotchman is a career .265 hitter with zero power. There's a reason nobody except the Indians wanted him this spring even after hitting .308 last year. The year before he hit something like .213 and that's what this year is shaping up to be, assuming he starts hitting better.

Many third basemen have made the switch to first as it is an easier position to play. Jim Thome comes immediately to mind. Usually it's a guy like that who gets too big and slow for the hot corner but his bat has to stay in the lineup, so he's moved to first. Chiz is only 22 and doesn't have the issue of size and weight, so there's no reason he can't be converted into an above average first baseman. If they start now he should be ready to go by next year. We can't use him in Cleveland this year unless we move Hannahan to first and bring up Chiz to play 3rd, which is another option. I just don't want to take a Gold Glove candidate off third base, not with all the ground ball pitchers the Tribe has.

Prosecutor wrote:I say we sign Hannahan to a three-year deal and give Chiz a first basemen's mitt. He's not in Hannahan's class defensively at 3rd and we desparately need a bat at first base. Kotchman is a career .265 hitter with zero power. There's a reason nobody except the Indians wanted him this spring even after hitting .308 last year. The year before he hit something like .213 and that's what this year is shaping up to be, assuming he starts hitting better.

I would counter that Hannahan at 1B would reduce the number of errors on throws (which is really what plagues Chiz and Asdrubal most defensively) and it would also reduce the impact of errors (from 2 base errors to 1 base errors). Neither is offensively a long-term solution for 1B at the ML level (offensively). Also long-term Chiz is where the team wants to go at 3B especially if a guy like Aguilar shows he's a MLer (2 -3 years away).

Interesting.. I like the idea of keeping Hannahan right where he's at 3B, but something absolutely needs to happen at 1B. A 1B that is hitting a paltry buck eighty two isn't cutting it. (blah blah blah about his defense.. his defense isn't enough to cover a .182 BA). Perhaps that's why Jason Donald is going to be the darling of Columbus and Jose Lopez and his inflated BA in Columbus is coming back for round two?.. but a three year contract?.. IDK..

Furthermore, I don't know that Chisenhall's best move would be to 1B.. imho, OF (perhaps more directly, RF) would be the place.. He's athletic enough to play the spot.. his arm is certainly strong enough (I'd wager that Chiz would almost equal Choo's arm for strength, perhaps not accuracy).. and it would solve a couple of problems..

-Chisenhall has the arm to play either corner spot.. There is no doubt that a player with a bit of Steve Sax / Chuck-it-in-the-stands Knoblauch Disease can be reborn/useful if they move to the OF. The oncoming departure of Shin-soo Choo (after the 2013 season, perhaps earlier if one of these "quality LH for quality RH etherial / "pie in the sky" fantasy baseball trades ever materialize) could be mitigated by moving Chiz to the OF and specifically to RF as his eventual replacement.. It's not like Chiz can't fill in, from time to time, at 3B thereby giving Manny Acta some flexibility with his lineup...

-Keeps Shelly Duncan as the everyday bench guy..plays some 1B, plays some LF, plays some DH.. but only as a part time player.

BTW.. this opens the door for Matt LaPorta's return to 1B.. While not many are giving Matt much of a chance to ever return.. he will.. when is the only unanswered question..

If Chiz were to be moved off 3B, I'd expect to see him move out to the OF, not 1B (who steps in for Choo once he's gone eventually?). Also, don't see Hanny being the reason. If Chiz looks like a viable long-term option at 3B he bumps Hannay. Don't get me wrong, really like Hannahan, but he's the guy that would move (like daingean said).

And while Kotchman has been a huge disappointment, don't think it's come to the point where you start moving your top prospects around to fix the issue (has been hititng somewhat better of late). I'd leave Chiz alone at 3B for this season, look to the trade market for 1B help (or I guess LaPorta this summer). Maybe reevaluate things this winter on Chiz but wouldn't make any moves in-season with position switches.

No need to sign Hannahan to a long term contract. He still has two years of arbitration left and isn't eligible for free agency until 2015. Chisenhall has been hitting well, but the fact that he only has three walks so far is a bit concerning. I wasn't a big fan of the Kotchman signing, and he has been worse than I expected. If they decide to keep going with him I would expect him to pick it up at some point. He has never been a very good bat, but he is better than what he has shown so far. Luckily, first base is one of the easiest positions to fill. I would not mind seeing Laporta get another chance to see if what he is doing in Columbus is for real, and if it is not and we are still in first place in July then it is time to pick up a rent a player.

The problem with LaPorta's stats though is his when you start looking at his splits... he's been pretty much a home field hitter. He hasn't hit nearly as well on the road this year. He's still chasing pitches out of the zone and still looks loopy on breaking balls. While I'm growing really tired of seeing Kotchman, not sure LaPorta would be much of an answer. That said, under no circumstances do I move Chisenhall to first. If anything, I move Hannahan to first and then bring up Chisenhall to play third. I'm not ready to call up Chisenhall yet either... so I guess I'm in a ride the storm boat.

A case can be made for moving Hanny to 1st when Chiz is ready, which hopefully will be in June or July. Hanny has already played some first base whereas I don't think Chiz has ever put on a first baseman's mitt. Converting him to 1st would mean they start training him now and in winter ball so he can play 1st next year. I'm not crazy about that, but if we have Hannahan under control for at least two more years and we have nothing in the system at 1st base until Aguilar possibly arrives in 2015 or thereabouts, then I could see doing it.

The Tribe took one game from the Red Sox, and that was with Derek Lowe getting out of jams practically every inning by getting ground balls. I saw the game and Hannahan must have had seven assists. He really saved Lowe's butt. Masterson is also a ground ball pitcher, as is Hernandez if he ever gets back. It just seems a shame to take Hannahan's glove off 3rd base for somebody who is unreliable, but where do you put Chiz?

Actually I could see him taking over as the DH next year. I'm not counting on LaPorta or Beau Mills.

Right field? That's an interesting thought, assuming Choo is trade bait next July. That's probably a better idea than putting him at 1st base.

Wet blanket time.... Chiz looks less and less like a ML option at ANY position to me. He will surly be given a "chance" at least, but without a doubt his defense at 3rd sucks compared to Hanny. He can barely handle LHP at AAA (for now) so ML quality LHer's are going to eat him up.

I like Chiz, and think he still has a shot at a ML future. He has serious issues though. I personally feel that he is trade bait.

criznit2009 wrote:Wet blanket time.... Chiz looks less and less like a ML option at ANY position to me. He will surly be given a "chance" at least, but without a doubt his defense and his throws at 3rd is awful compared to Hanny. He can barely handle LHP at AAA (for now) so ML quality LHer's are going to eat him up.

I like Chiz, and think he still has a shot at a ML future. He has serious issues though. I personally feel that he is trade bait.

You need to throw that wet blanket on top of yourself..The only area where Chisenhall is struggling is when he's behind in the count.. otherwise.. he's a model of consistency up and down virtually every stat line he's measured by... He's got 16 k's in 90 AB's.. that's 1 k for every 5 1/2 AB's..

Last year in Cleveland Chiz hit .260/.888 in 50 at-bats against lefties. That includes 5 HR's by the way, not bad for only 50 at-bats. Against right-handers he hit .253/.640, so he was actually 248 points higher against lefties.

Yes, it's a small sample, but the difference is striking, and when you also consider he's not hitting lefties much worse than righties in Columbus it suggests he's not the liability against lefties that some people think.

However, Chiz is injured at the moment and Kotchman is starting to hit the last 10 games, including a HR tonight.

Absolutely no reason to sign Hannahan to a long term deal....he is still under team control two more years beyond this season....so best to just go year to year with him for now because he still could always revert back to the fringe ML player he was before signing with the Indians. Also, I just don't see Chisenhall being moved to third base. Too valuable of a prospect to the team....so when Chisenhall is ready I think it looks more likely he goes to third base and Hannahan could become the regular first baseman. Hannahan could also still play third base from time to time, like to sit Chisenhall against tough lefties. Also, it would take Chisenhall a full offseason and then some to learn first base....Hannahan would only need a few days and could adapt on the go considering his experience playing there before.

does chisenhall still have alot of value? I just don't know about him. He seems like a very average prospect to me. I thought he was supposed to be a john olerud type player with a great swing that was going to be a good contact hitter.

his strike zone discipline is going to hell. We need him to go well and become a good player because we have no other options.

does chisenhall still have alot of value? I just don't know about him. He seems like a very average prospect to me. I thought he was supposed to be a john olerud type player with a great swing that was going to be a good contact hitter.

his strike zone discipline is going to hell. We need him to go well and become a good player because we have no other options.

That wet blanket that was possibly being thrown onto criz.. should be enlarged to include you and your posting..

First off.. Chisenhall has HUGE value as a prospect. Tremendous upside exists for this 23 year old.. The sweet swing is there. All you have to do is watch.. The only area where Chisenhall seems to continue to have issues is when he has too much time to throw the ball over to first base.. Otherwise, he has the soft hands, good reactions and more than enough baseball IQ to be the best 3B the Indians have seen since the days of Matt Williams and Buddy Bell...

-You want contact?.. how about a .326/.351/.562 triple slash line?.. in 89 ABs.. There is NOTHING AVERAGE about these numbers.. nothing even close to average.. these numbers are OUTSTANDING...

There are ALWAYS other options.. the end of the world is not at hand, henny penny.. the sky is not falling.. the Mayans were not predicting the end of the world.. Armageddon is a movie, not a promise..

GeronimoSon wrote:That wet blanket that was possibly being thrown onto criz.. should be enlarged to include you and your posting..

First off.. Chisenhall has HUGE value as a prospect. Tremendous upside exists for this 23 year old.. The sweet swing is there. All you have to do is watch.. The only area where Chisenhall seems to continue to have issues is when he has too much time to throw the ball over to first base.. Otherwise, he has the soft hands, good reactions and more than enough baseball IQ to be the best 3B the Indians have seen since the days of Matt Williams and Buddy Bell...

-You want contact?.. how about a .326/.351/.562 triple slash line?.. in 89 ABs.. There is NOTHING AVERAGE about these numbers.. nothing even close to average.. these numbers are OUTSTANDING...

There are ALWAYS other options.. the end of the world is not at hand, henny penny.. the sky is not falling.. the Mayans were not predicting the end of the world.. Armageddon is a movie, not a promise..

Really love Chiz, but you're overselling his defensive value some IMO. Williams, Bell, or Fryman he is not over there and while I know Fryman liked what he saw from him and gave him praises (from work done together in the minors), he looks like a Blake-type 3B defenisvely...which personally I'm more than fine with.

There is nothing outstanding about a .351 OBP. Very solid and if he could maintain that thru the bigs I'd love it, but walk rate is a bit troublesome of late. Do think he can bump it though.

Yes, Chiz still has value. It has dropped some since the beginning of last season, but he is still valued and he could be the center piece of a deal if needed. As for his defense, he's a solid defender. Will probably be an average to slightly above average defensive 3B for the Indians. There have been several better defenders over the years, but I think his offensive upside is still exciting.

Honestly, no sense changing Chiz's position. No reason to rush him to the majors, period. He's still young and has time on his side, so no need to go changing positions to spur a move up to the majors that he's not prepared or resdy for at this point in time. Keep him at 3rd, and keep him working to get his defense improved. Keep him in the lineup facing as many lefties as he can possibly face to get him developed as much as humanly possible.

Folks, he's still young, raw, and not ready yet for the majors. Don't be jerking him around to different positions ..all that can do is possibly mentally short circuit him at a time he needs to be just grinding and improving. Rushing this kid to the majors when he's not ready would be dumb. Just keep patience, and if he needs a couple years, give him a couple years, but don't repeat errors like we did with LaPorta, IMHO. Don'y bring this kid up and expose him to the majors before he's prepared and rounded enough to have some success.

I agree about not rushing The Chiz, Dan, but what would you do if the Tribe is battling the Tigers for first place in late July, Chiz is hitting .330 at Columbus, and Kotchman is hitting .220 with zero power?

danh8 wrote:Folks, he's still young, raw, and not ready yet for the majors. Don't be jerking him around to different positions ..all that can do is possibly mentally short circuit him at a time he needs to be just grinding and improving. Rushing this kid to the majors when he's not ready would be dumb. Just keep patience, and if he needs a couple years, give him a couple years, but don't repeat errors like we did with LaPorta, IMHO. Don'y bring this kid up and expose him to the majors before he's prepared and rounded enough to have some success.

Agree completely here. I want to say again, Chiz is 2 years younger this season than Kipnis. Nothing wrong with him needing an extra year in the minors. Tribe has called up too many top prospects too early and stunted their growth: Phillips, Marte, LaPorta, and even Chiz last year. Give him time at 3B.

Prosecutor wrote:I agree about not rushing The Chiz, Dan, but what would you do if the Tribe is battling the Tigers for first place in late July, Chiz is hitting .330 at Columbus, and Kotchman is hitting .220 with zero power?

In that scenario Chisenhall is not in the equation at first base. There is absolutely no way he plays first base this year. If they ever consider playing him there, that is a move made over the offseason where he has time to work on the move and also maybe get some games there in winter ball.

If Chisenhall is raking and they want him up, he goes to third base. And Hannahan goes to first base. But as long as Hannahan is hitting, I don't see anything happening on that front as he is too valuable at third base. Going to be hard for Chisenhall to get to Cleveland this year as long as Hannahan is healthy and performing well. The replacement at first base likely comes from outside the organization via trade or is LaPorta for one final time.

There is a tweet / posting / story about Jared Goedert being moved up to AAA Columbus in anticipation of a promotion of Matt LaPorta to the ML club.. It seems like a pretty odd time to do that.. While it's clear that LaPorta has gone down to AAA and has done everything that he can to make a return a reality, what move will the Indians FO and Manny make to accomplish this?:

1. DL: Both Jack Hannahan and, now, Travis Hafner were unable to play/finish yesterday's game. With Hafner's history as a VERY slow healer & Hannie's continued sore back, could the Indians make an preemptive move for the long haul by making one of them sit for a guaranteed period of time?. Doesn't seem likely.. maybe a 1 in 10 chance of this being the move..

2. Shelly's Time has come and gone: Shelly Duncan has been worse than awful. Excluding opening day, Shelly's high water mark for the season, .333 on April 17th, is a distant memory.. He's seen his BA plummet to a buck twenty. Shelly doesn't offer any thing special defensively requiring a defensive replacement move any time he starts.. In short.. When a ML player is in that deep of a funk.. the team has no real options.. Thanks for the memories, Shelly.. and don't let the door hitcha on the ass on the way out... maybe a better than 3 in 10 chance of this being the move..

3. Aaron Cunningham: As bad as Shelly Duncan has been, Aaron Cunningham has been worse. Granted, Aaron hasn't had much of a chance, getting 10 AB's in the month of May, but, being fair and balanced is for Fox News. .not baseball. While it's true, Cunningham brings a better glove to the equation, close and late games are saved by defense and won by offense. The pesky problem with needing to cover CF in the event Michael Brantley is unavailable would be a problem, however, Trevor Crowe or Chad Huffman or more likely Ezequiel Carrera (as a defensive CF'er) is just one phone call away.. this move seems to be the most likely or a 5 in 10 chance of happening..

4. Johnny Damon: Almost zero chance of him being released.. then again, a trade or some unforeseen transaction could be in the works, however, unlikely that is.. Give this one 1 chance in 1000...

So, if a move is made.. does it help the team?.. or upset the chemistry that seems to be developing?.. we shall see...

GeronimoSon wrote:4. Johnny Damon: Almost zero chance of him being released.. then again, a trade or some unforeseen transaction could be in the works, however, unlikely that is.. Give this one 1 chance in 1000...

Just a general question of sorts, but can Damon even be traded (without permission)? Thought the rule is you can't trade a newly signed free agent til June 15th, but since Damon technically signed a minor league deal first, not sure if the rule still applies (thought it did since he has a guaranteed deal now). Either way, agree it's not likely, think 1 in 1000 is probably too low even.

TonyIPI wrote:If Chisenhall is raking and they want him up, he goes to third base. And Hannahan goes to first base. But as long as Hannahan is hitting, I don't see anything happening on that front as he is too valuable at third base. Going to be hard for Chisenhall to get to Cleveland this year as long as Hannahan is healthy and performing well. The replacement at first base likely comes from outside the organization via trade or is LaPorta for one final time.

This could end up a really good thing IMO. One thing to consider too with Chiz is that if he stays down long enough this year, the Tribe will get an extra year out of him. If the Tribe is in need of him (ie, Hanny get hurt bad or starts to tank) then you turn to Chiz regardless, but If we wait til the All-Star break or later that extra year of Chiz would be nice. Would mean that you wouldn't have both Kip and Chiz hitting free agency the same year either.

GeronimoSon wrote:4. Johnny Damon: Almost zero chance of him being released.. then again, a trade or some unforeseen transaction could be in the works, however, unlikely that is.. Give this one 1 chance in 1000...

Just a general question of sorts, but can Damon even be traded (without permission)? Thought the rule is you can't trade a newly signed free agent til June 15th, but since Damon technically signed a minor league deal first, not sure if the rule still applies (thought it did since he has a guaranteed deal now). Either way, agree it's not likely, think 1 in 1000 is probably too low even.

June 16th is the first day a club can trade an eligible free agent player who was signed after electing free agency. What this means, because Damon did file for free agency after the completion of the 2011 season, he is considered "eligible", so he cannot be traded until June 16th. Of course.. as a PTBNL etc.. a transaction can be completed, unofficially...

I've seen enough of Damon. Release him and put LaPorta in left field. If LaPorta is exactly the same player he was last year he's a huge upgrade offensively and how could he be any worse than Damon defensively?

I agree Duncan doesn't seem to have a spot right now since they're using Santana at first base against lefties. His only role is to pinch-hit against left-handed relievers. He's hitting .136 in the last month. But Duncan isn't hurting the team right now and Damon is. The Indians are like a National League team where the pitcher bats, only Damon is the pitcher. I'll bet the aggregate BA of NL pitchers is higher than what Damon is hitting right now.

Nothing against Damon, but he really needed to go through a spring training to have any chance of being a productive player.

GeronimoSon wrote:4. Johnny Damon: Almost zero chance of him being released.. then again, a trade or some unforeseen transaction could be in the works, however, unlikely that is.. Give this one 1 chance in 1000...

Just a general question of sorts, but can Damon even be traded (without permission)? Thought the rule is you can't trade a newly signed free agent til June 15th, but since Damon technically signed a minor league deal first, not sure if the rule still applies (thought it did since he has a guaranteed deal now). Either way, agree it's not likely, think 1 in 1000 is probably too low even.

June 16th is the first day a club can trade an eligible free agent player who was signed after electing free agency. What this means, because Damon did file for free agency after the completion of the 2011 season, he is considered "eligible", so he cannot be traded until June 16th. Of course.. as a PTBNL etc.. a transaction can be completed, unofficially...

Dont' think this is possible either even as a PTBNL with Damon. The player to be named later may not be an active Major Leaguer player during the interval between the trade and the date the player is named.

Only transaction with Damon now would be cutting him....or convincing him to waive his no-trade protection (though what team would want him right now?).

I agree with your initial comment that it would seem like an odd time to bring up LaPorta (unless Hafner hit the DL).

GeronimoSon wrote:4. Johnny Damon: Almost zero chance of him being released.. then again, a trade or some unforeseen transaction could be in the works, however, unlikely that is.. Give this one 1 chance in 1000...

Just a general question of sorts, but can Damon even be traded (without permission)? Thought the rule is you can't trade a newly signed free agent til June 15th, but since Damon technically signed a minor league deal first, not sure if the rule still applies (thought it did since he has a guaranteed deal now). Either way, agree it's not likely, think 1 in 1000 is probably too low even.

June 16th is the first day a club can trade an eligible free agent player who was signed after electing free agency. What this means, because Damon did file for free agency after the completion of the 2011 season, he is considered "eligible", so he cannot be traded until June 16th. Of course.. as a PTBNL etc.. a transaction can be completed, unofficially...

Dont' think this is possible either even as a PTBNL with Damon. The player to be named later may not be an active Major Leaguer player during the interval between the trade and the date the player is named.

Only transaction with Damon now would be cutting him....or convincing him to waive his no-trade protection (though what team would want him right now?).

I agree with your initial comment that it would seem like an odd time to bring up LaPorta (unless Hafner hit the DL).

Then there's the 40/25 man roster quandry......only solution is either sending him down to get 50 AB's or cutting him loose....any transaction to acquire someone eliminating someone from the 25 man roster....unless an OF that can play CF/RF (thus cutting A.Cunningham loose)....w/Grady on the 60 we will have to wait until June for him (if he's ready then)....I just don't see us PTBNL Damon then letting him use up a 25 man roster position till mid June.