Look, I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site. Increasingly, I'm seeing that it is. I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do. That apparently isn't the point. The point seems to be to live in a prescripted way and congratulate each other on how close you can get to matching thy Holy Diety MMM, who is generally bad at math and demonstrably makes incredibly poor leaps in logic and pulls numbers out of his ass to try and make a point*. I never intended to post, but got drawn in discussing things related to cars, because that's my passion, and the group here seems incredibly ill-informed when it comes to them (ie, running A/C is a punch-you-in-the-balls offense, when in reality modern systems are very efficient with minimal mileage penalty). I see now that trying to provide another viewpoint and further, corrective information is considered "trolling" here (In most of the rest of the internet, sincere disagreement is not trolling, dunno why it is here) and is unwelcome. Got it. After this post, I'm going to lock my account and wander off. You guys want an circlejerk echo chamber where you can congratulate each other on who can sweat the most to avoid paying a dime, fine. I'll leave you to it. Just don't pretend you're having anything close to a "discussion".

*See things like converting miles driven to time on road to make bikes safer than cars, a clearly idiotic way to look at it given no one says "let me take 1 hour to get to work no matter the distance" instead of "I live 10 miles away, that's 20 minutes by car and 40 by bike". See also "a small apartment is cheaper than a suburban house and those are good comparables" or "an SUV by default must always be the dumber choice no matter the actual costs in question."

Chris, no need to justify your life choices to me, or leave the boards. I was responding to your direct question, "How's that trollish?". I just thought you didn't understand how your post could be -construed- as trollish, so I outlined it for you. I was not attacking your choices, I was explaining how they differ from the general consensus around here, and therefore why people were questioning whether you were just trying to get a rise out of people. I, for one, like to hear differing view points and enjoy constructive debate.

yeah man, don't be mad. you are my Honda friend.

Honestly, a lot of the people on the forum don't understand cars or that people could be car enthusiasts. I've noticed some of the same things you, but I just learned it's better not to tell everyone on here I like cars. Plus, mob mentality and the internet, easy for everyone to be perfect on here - at least you kept it real about your choices.

I'm not even a car enthusiast, and I still think it's unfair to harp on Chris22 (or allege that he's "trolling") for running the car AC with the windows down or for driving his daughter to school on his route to work! Chris22 stated my philosophy perfectly: ". . . I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site. . . . I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do."

He corrected me. Apparently I couldn't hook it up because soldering is involved, and only plumbers can do that.

Confession time.Bought a new house with a rusted water heater.I bought the tank, ripped out the old one and put the new one in but decided not to solder the pipes.I'm new to the country, not "certified", out all day, what if I caused a leak, would the insurance pay,.....The plumber turned up and used plastic pex tubing and shark-bite connectors - no soldering.Apparently the water is so acid here that copper pipe doesn't last as long

I've actually heard people say that it's because the A/C in a vehicle works just as hard whether the windows are up or down. It doesn't shut off when it reaches a certain temp. It's ridiculous, but some people like to have "fresh air" with their cool air.

All that a/c air just exits the car through the body vent in the back of the cab or trunk unless you have it set to recirc. You might as well have the windows open.

FWIW I idled a Dodge Intrepid one night - the whole night - at work to stay warm on a reflash watch (building at work burned). I believe it used just shy of half a tank of gas. And yeah - it reflashed once.

Heat is essentially free. I have definitely turned the heat on a little with windows open - you know those warm summer night drives, where at 2 am it dips to 60; the open windows feel so good, but the cold starts to get through to the bone? It's pretty nice to turn the heat on.

Not AC and windows, though.

Heck in the winter I've been known to ride around with the top down on my old convertible...

- the she had a fight with him about their last holiday to Europe where he suggested they might stay in a hostel. WTF? If someone was bank rolling my Euro trip for me I sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about their accommodation choices.

Years ago i was dating this girl and all the signs said "move on" but I was kind of stubborn and thickheaded. Wondered if she was "the one".

Had limited funds once and told her we could go somewhere nice if we went "Dutch" or I'd take her out for a burger. Dutch was not an option... Ahhh - is unable to deal with financial reality. A few more little episodes like that and we went out separate ways. Another example: she couldn't find a job. Turned out she was sleeping until after noon and it was nearly closing time before she got it together and started visiting HR departments. Her parents made it easy for her to live easy at home.

He corrected me. Apparently I couldn't hook it up because soldering is involved, and only plumbers can do that.

Confession time.Bought a new house with a rusted water heater.I bought the tank, ripped out the old one and put the new one in but decided not to solder the pipes.I'm new to the country, not "certified", out all day, what if I caused a leak, would the insurance pay,.....The plumber turned up and used plastic pex tubing and shark-bite connectors - no soldering.Apparently the water is so acid here that copper pipe doesn't last as long

I dunno, I'd count that as sensible use of a plumber.

I do some amateur plumbing, and I'd've used copper pipe with compression joints in that situation, having no regard for the effect of acidic water on copper. A plumber who knows what works in the general area is a good resource.

As for sitting to pee - every morning, I'm still too asleep to ensure I aim properly.[/quote]

At least I now know I'm not alone :)

My bedroom and bathroom face the street. I have a street light. I have mini-blinds.The street light provides enough light so I don't have to turn on the light in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. By using the "sit" method, I don't have to turn on the light, don't have to put on my glasses and don't really have to become "fully awake".

The main reason I was nervous of soldering was that they build houses of wood here and the copper pipes were running through the wooden beams holding the house up. I didn't want to wave a blowtorch around too much

I'm not even a car enthusiast, and I still think it's unfair to harp on Chris22 (or allege that he's "trolling") for running the car AC with the windows down or for driving his daughter to school on his route to work! Chris22 stated my philosophy perfectly: ". . . I originally came on this board with interest, because it DIDN'T seem like the same old "drive every dime out of your life and live like a pauper forever" site. . . . I try to OPTIMIZE (that's what we're here for, right?) my life, and reduce waste in areas I don't care about to spend in areas I do."

+1 - you know if you have to defend every post you make - that is no fun. Anything labeled "extreme" is a red flag to me, just like fanaticism and I slowly discovered there are a lot of people here from another extreme board that post here as well.Chris mentioned both his cars have been long since paid off - that just goes to show that we really never know the true financial circumstances of someone else.There are plenty of circumstances when it makes sense to own two cars - get over it. There are also plenty of circumstances where one cannot ride a bike to work or for fitness.

I take away what works for me and I am grateful for this forum and the amazing amount of information and cool links to be found here. But hey, my values and how I choose to live are my own and it wouldn't occur to me in a million years to try to imitate MMM, heck I don't even approve of some of his choices.

I came here to optimize just like Chris and stayed, because Mr. R. is looking to retire in 10 or less years and this is the best forum I have found in pursuit of ER but, I do find it prickly and I do wish those who prefer the extreme side of frugality would back off.

The main reason I was nervous of soldering was that they build houses of wood here and the copper pipes were running through the wooden beams holding the house up. I didn't want to wave a blowtorch around too much

Off topic (should be DIY), but they make flame retardant shields to put between the joints and the wood. In a pinch, I've used a small piece of scrap drywall (also fire resistant).

A couple weeks ago, I heard my boss worrying loudly on the phone that he would never be able to save enough money to retire (he has been making at least 130k for many years). Today he showed me a picture of his brand new, 3-seat wave runner. He also has a boat, and drives a truck 40 min to and from work each day. It's kind of painful to watch.

Me: Don't you want to take my umbrella, I don't need it now and it's going to rain.Co-worker: I'll just take a cab if it's raining.

For a 10 minute walk..

This would be a foolish strategy in my city anyway (aside from taking a cab for 10 minute walk). As soon as the first rain drop falls, everyone sticks their arm out. Finding a cab during a shower is like finding a sober person at closing time in my local.

I just overheard a coworker say that he thought he would be less stressed out at work if he didn't have to drive 30 minutes to get here. (but is he going to do anything about that? no.)

Like my coworker(s) that used to complain about the price of fuel. Were they going to drive less or make their next vehicle purchase a fuel sipper? Nope. Now folks are buying vehicles like $2 gas will last forever. Maybe it will last a year or maybe it will last five years. I figure the Saudis are just building dependence and bankrupting the competition - and then prices will climb again. Sort of entertaining from my perspective b/c we keep driving the same old four banger whether prices or high or low. We just save more when the prices are low. $20 to fill up last night. Haven't seen that in a long time...

Well paid coworker goes from fascination to fascination spending tens of thousands. For a while it was motorcycles. Had to have several. Spent tens of thousands on new motorcycles. Then it was model trains. Spent thousands. Then it was hunting. Spent thousands. Then it was musical instruments. Spent thousands. I think fishing was in there for a while too.

Must either have a warehouse to store all these hobbies or I need to get in on the possible downstream fire sales each time he switches hobbies. Buy, clean, and resale. I know someone else who had a coworker who had a revolving list of hobbies and he was downstream of the sell-offs. Some nice stuff could be had for cheap as the coworker scrambled to raise money for the next round of new things.

No idea about their finance specifics but I know I could have retired on what I estimate their income to be long, long ago.

..you know if you have to defend every post you make - that is no fun.

If you (not you Rosy, the general you) have to defend a post or two every now and then, maybe people are being assholes to you and nitpicking your choices.

If you have to defend nearly every post you make, maybe step outside and look at your words from a different point of view.

I <3 the CS.

Thanks! I was actually thinking of the exchange quoted below when I wrote that, I just said it a little nicer than the good Dr. Agon Car. BTW, this took a lot of combing old posts to find. But I found some old funny shit along the way so it was totally worth it! Enjoy:

Another freelancer who was equating expenses reimbursed by a client (they give back 100% so your financial position is the same) with general freelance expenses (reduce your taxable income, so effectively discounted by 25%).

I was homeschooled. I probably won't have kids. If I do have kids I would prefer to homeschool them. I don't mind paying taxes for the schools because I want school to be an available option for everybody because I want to live in an educated society. However, I don't believe that spending more money equates to a better education.

I don't like the way some of the schools spend the money that they receive. A friend of mine just got a job at a public school and he said they are giving every student an ipad mini this year. The students have to return the ipads at the end of the year, but still. That just seems like they are trying to think up ways to spend money.

The ipads are because the PUBLISHERS are going to digital content...way cheaper than printing books (but costs the schools nearly the same). Its becoming a HUGE problem for the parochial elementary school my youngest is in and we've been fundraising like crazy (last 3 years) to get enough computers (desktops, laptops and ipads) that we can just take the state mandated testing!!! Which is now all online...no more filling in the little dots in a booklet. The public schools here give the ipads in 6th grade, 7th if you attended one of the nonpublic elementaries.

Another freelancer who was equating expenses reimbursed by a client (they give back 100% so your financial position is the same) with general freelance expenses (reduce your taxable income, so effectively discounted by 25%).

Oh god, that concept and my mom do not mesh. I'm an accountant, and I've been trying to explain this to her for that past 10 years. She does not understand. She's got a side business, teaching people computers and fixing them (southeast Michigan and need help, PM me). She uses a spreadsheet to track her income, including the reimbursements from clients for purchased equipment, etc. Expenses go in a particular drawer and are added up at the end of the year! After she messed up the spreadsheet, again, I redid the spreadsheet. Now, it's got a section for income and a separate section for the expenses, with instructions in big lettering. But since I know what the heck she did, I can convert it to a cash basis income statement for their taxes.

At least she tracks the income. All receipts for expenses go into a drawer. It used to be a shoebox, so we've made progress at least.

Do they have to use (overly expensive) ipad's specifically? As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books. I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome. It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it). But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books. I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome. It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it). But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

And it means that schools have to re-buy (sorry licence, they never own) the books each year - how else can the publishers make $10/year/student on copies of Moby Dick or Grapes of Wrath ?

A friend lectures intro maths at university and they are required to do quizzes using an electronic clicker thing that comes with the $100 textbook. That way you are forced to buy the new edition of the textbook covering all the breakthroughs in introductory algebra that have been made in the last 12 months.

As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books. I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome. It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it). But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

And it means that schools have to re-buy (sorry licence, they never own) the books each year - how else can the publishers make $10/year/student on copies of Moby Dick or Grapes of Wrath ?

A friend lectures intro maths at university and they are required to do quizzes using an electronic clicker thing that comes with the $100 textbook. That way you are forced to buy the new edition of the textbook covering all the breakthroughs in introductory algebra that have been made in the last 12 months.

We also used clickers when I was in university. You could buy them used on Kijiji which is what I did. I also bought old editions of the textbooks used.

This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

Sorry! I'm done.

I have pretty awesome coworkers who are frugal and talk about retirements and pensions, though they do get excited about new shoe stores. However, I was talking with a friend the other day who was complaining that her friend was stingy. Her stingy friend actually saves up money to buy things like furniture instead of using the furniture store payment plans. *gasp* Of course I laughed and told her I agreed with her friend. AND I almost always buy used things and have never actually bought furniture from a furniture store.

Drove past a furniture store here today and saw a sign that said 8 years interest free!!!

I didn't know pressboard furniture would last 8 years... ;) Their furniture is okay - we have some. Just teasing about their sign. Definitely not heirloom quality stuff but it's lasted a decade. Didn't want to spend big money on great furniture while we had small kids in the house. Everybody is past that so we'll buy something nicer next time. Will certainly pay with cash and not necessarily from there. ;)

Loans on furniture are insane to me! I mean it's one thing to put it on a CC, but to "finance" it through the store? What the... FWIW, I have quite a bit of furniture from IKEA and it's all held up very well.

We financed our bedroom furniture. I told the salesman that I wanted the set for X out the door including taxes. He said he wasn't sure. I told him he could do it cash or finance, whichever gave him a bigger cut. He took the finance and I paid it off when I got the first bill. The worst part was when they said they couldn't do the deal but they could for $175 on top of it. I started to leave and the manager said "you're willing to walk over $175???" I said "of course." They gave me the deal.

So, I have a co-worker who has 56 years of service. You read that correctly. Not 5-6 years. 56 years. In the same job. He retired sometime in the '90s and came back to work like 3 months later. He's getting a pension with medical, he's getting social security, his wife is getting social security. His job isn't particularly critical or high end, and he's not really passionate about it.

The unofficial/grapevine explanation is that his "Honey-do" list reads more like "War and Peace" and the only peace he gets is at work... *sigh*

He loves to mess around with money. Perhaps, he loves talking about messing around with money, keeping the funds scattered across a dozen different places and with a half dozen financial advisors (apparently his wife has DIFFERENT financial advisors) - it seems like every few weeks there is something that he needs to mess around with, and after asking his paid advisors, he'll then want to ask ME and talk by way of stock tickers and ETF tickers. He's been doing this random investing for decades, starting with the tech boom in the'90s, which he rode up...and down. Heavily down, as he was in individual stocks like Dell.

I did sit down with him, found the most reasonable Vanguard product for his actual needs (VBIAX) - after that, each round of discussion I just listen politely for a bit and when he asks me what I think he should put whatever current chunk of money in, I just say "Whatever that Vanguard fund we agreed on" and move on with my day. Or when he asks me what I think of the latest market move, I'll just shrug and tell him again that I'm really not watching day-to-day or month-to-month. I'm not worried about it.

Since SWMBO and I both work in traffic, we find ourselves taking photos of traffic devices and signage, vehicles and occupants, and discussing the merits/challenges of the traffic network just about everywhere we go. Not having to solve the problems is our vacation. Coming home with the ideas and observations makes us more open.

I recommend you vacation in Salt Lake City and drive through the intersection at Bangeter and 3900S.... I can't totally explain it but it's very cool. The left turn lane instead of being in middle crosses behind the other traffic before the intersection which has the net result of cutting 1/3 of the time out of hey he light cycle (since you no longer need a left turn light).

Well paid coworker goes from fascination to fascination spending tens of thousands. For a while it was motorcycles. Had to have several. Spent tens of thousands on new motorcycles. Then it was model trains. Spent thousands. Then it was hunting. Spent thousands. Then it was musical instruments. Spent thousands. I think fishing was in there for a while too.

Must either have a warehouse to store all these hobbies or I need to get in on the possible downstream fire sales each time he switches hobbies. Buy, clean, and resale. I know someone else who had a coworker who had a revolving list of hobbies and he was downstream of the sell-offs. Some nice stuff could be had for cheap as the coworker scrambled to raise money for the next round of new things.

No idea about their finance specifics but I know I could have retired on what I estimate their income to be long, long ago.

That boggles my mind. See, I jump from hobby to hobby to obsession to hobby. There's no such as thing a lifelong hobby to me. But... it doesn't need to cost much. I got obsessed with knitting for a couple of years. I was out the cost of needles and some cheapish acrylic yarn (and most of my friends ended up with a scarf). Then I got obsessed with trying to understand economics. This was pre-MMM so instead of borrowing from the library, I was out the cost of a few books. Photography? I bought a low-ish end digital camera for a few hundred dollars, read a few photography articles online. And so on.

Overheard on the way to work. Not antimustachian, but funny so what the hell. So two ladies on the street were walking kinda slowly so I only heard part of the conversation. One said to the other: "When I say the dicks were out. The. Dicks. Were. Out!" Someone had an orgy that weekend (it was on a Monday)!

On the sportier side of it, the S2000 is a great investment (seriously! No, it isn't VTSMX). I drove a Miata hard for 4 years and 60,000 miles and sold it for about $3,500 less than we paid for it. Not too bad, all things considered--less than $1000 a year in depreciation, and a lot of mileage on there. Corvettes don't depreciate that much if you take care of them and don't pile on miles...

I just don't understand the stuck up rich person stigma associated with a convertible.

/Rant

I drove the shit out of an S2000 for a few years and only lost $2K on the sale. And I managed to get decent mileage out of it, 25+, near 30 sometimes, just by shifting up to keep RPMs down. Still kinda miss it, but love the Volt even more in its own way. \m/Would like to have another convertible someday. Maybe. ;)

« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 08:13:18 AM by zephyr911 »

Logged

Semi-FIREd December 2017, part-time entrepreneur, lover of puppies and saltwater.

This thread has turned into a real downer. I come here to mock your ridiculous coworkers. Post more of that for my entertainment!

Sorry! I'm done.

I have pretty awesome coworkers who are frugal and talk about retirements and pensions, though they do get excited about new shoe stores. However, I was talking with a friend the other day who was complaining that her friend was stingy. Her stingy friend actually saves up money to buy things like furniture instead of using the furniture store payment plans. *gasp* Of course I laughed and told her I agreed with her friend. AND I almost always buy used things and have never actually bought furniture from a furniture store.

Drove past a furniture store here today and saw a sign that said 8 years interest free!!!

I didn't know pressboard furniture would last 8 years... ;) Their furniture is okay - we have some. Just teasing about their sign. Definitely not heirloom quality stuff but it's lasted a decade. Didn't want to spend big money on great furniture while we had small kids in the house. Everybody is past that so we'll buy something nicer next time. Will certainly pay with cash and not necessarily from there. ;)

Loans on furniture are insane to me! I mean it's one thing to put it on a CC, but to "finance" it through the store? What the... FWIW, I have quite a bit of furniture from IKEA and it's all held up very well.

We financed our bedroom furniture. I told the salesman that I wanted the set for X out the door including taxes. He said he wasn't sure. I told him he could do it cash or finance, whichever gave him a bigger cut. He took the finance and I paid it off when I got the first bill. The worst part was when they said they couldn't do the deal but they could for $175 on top of it. I started to leave and the manager said "you're willing to walk over $175???" I said "of course." They gave me the deal.

I never understood why some people say things like that. "It's just a dollar, man, who cares?" Ok, then you give me the dollar if it means nothing to you. Scale up appropriately

But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

Yes - these two statements. We have an old Kindle with the "digital ink" display. Thing will go forever on a charge. Can't read them in the dark but I like to read on it better than our modern tablets with the backlit display. Less fatigue. The old Kindle was much cheaper and offered less potential distractions to the child than a newer tablet with frequent potential notifications popping up - FB, Twitter, whatever else...

But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

Yes - these two statements. We have an old Kindle with the "digital ink" display. Thing will go forever on a charge. Can't read them in the dark but I like to read on it better than our modern tablets with the backlit display. Less fatigue. The old Kindle was much cheaper and offered less potential distractions to the child than a newer tablet with frequent potential notifications popping up - FB, Twitter, whatever else...

I read on my phone a lot. I just log out of the Facebook app so it won't interrupt my reading by telling me it is the birthday of someone whom I taught in seventh grade six years ago.

As someone who missed this digital book technology era while in school, I'm jealous of kids who won't have to carry around a backpack/arm-full of books. I saw this coming about 10 years ago shortly after I finished college, and think it's awesome. It COULD be one of the better uses of new technology (I work in IT and view 95% of technology as a pointless waste that doesn't actually improve our lives, so am always excited to see a good use of it). But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

And it means that schools have to re-buy (sorry licence, they never own) the books each year - how else can the publishers make $10/year/student on copies of Moby Dick or Grapes of Wrath ?

A friend lectures intro maths at university and they are required to do quizzes using an electronic clicker thing that comes with the $100 textbook. That way you are forced to buy the new edition of the textbook covering all the breakthroughs in introductory algebra that have been made in the last 12 months.

I'm taking a couple classes while working (I work at a University, get one free class per term), and fortunately I don't have to use a clicker. They sell separately for $55 here.

I did have to pay $200 (!!!) for a new French textbook with a special code that gives me access to a website that we're required to use for the class. You can't buy just a code, so they get the full price and shut down the used market. The marginally cheaper version on Amazon also doesn't include a code. It's a huge scam, but if you want to take the class, you gotta pay.

I did have to pay $200 (!!!) for a new French textbook with a special code that gives me access to a website that we're required to use for the class. You can't buy just a code, so they get the full price and shut down the used market. The marginally cheaper version on Amazon also doesn't include a code. It's a huge scam, but if you want to take the class, you gotta pay.

I went through the same thing for a Finance class - you needed to get the access code in order to get to the online quizzes and supplementary material from the publisher. So, either spend $200 on the book, or $75 on a used copy and $150 for a fresh code. Nice of them to sell it separately.

It's usually not a quid pro quo situation, but publishers pay the writer 20% for textbooks (it's usually 10% for non-textbook books), this is coming from a friend of mine that used to be the head of the math department of a major public university. He mentioned going to a conference held by a major textbook publisher that was absolutely loaded with top shelf alcohol and food. He swears he never took a kickback, but well, there are opportunities for writers to get comped or other things.

How big is the kickback to the person selecting these books for the courses?

I work at a university and from what I've seen there's not a lot of kickback to the department for selecting books. The reason schools are switching to online resources are not usually financially backed. They're convenient because you don't have to grade, the software grades for you. Students get immediate feedback (which they like). There is some financial benefit... if the department was hiring TA's to do grading, then they don't need to do that anymore, they're just passing the expense on to the student.

There are pros & cons, but as always in the textbook industry, price is a con.

But I pictured it happening with cheap e-readers like a Kindle, not the most expensive tablet possible.

Yes - these two statements. We have an old Kindle with the "digital ink" display. Thing will go forever on a charge. Can't read them in the dark but I like to read on it better than our modern tablets with the backlit display. Less fatigue. The old Kindle was much cheaper and offered less potential distractions to the child than a newer tablet with frequent potential notifications popping up - FB, Twitter, whatever else...

I do this too. I bought a used Kindle 3 several years ago, and was so impressed with the device that I bought another for my homeschooled teens to use. And the number of freely available, pre-1915 classics is incredible. I literally have several hundred of these classics that I may never live long enough to read sitting on my kindle; from Anne of Greene Gables to the Wizard of Oz trilogy to Don Quixote, and so on. The disadvantage is that, as you get a lot of titles on a kindle 3, it takes the device longer and longer to switch pages.

I do this too. I bought a used Kindle 3 several years ago, and was so impressed with the device that I bought another for my homeschooled teens to use. And the number of freely available, pre-1915 classics is incredible. I literally have several hundred of these classics that I may never live long enough to read sitting on my kindle; from Anne of Greene Gables to the Wizard of Oz trilogy to Don Quixote, and so on. The disadvantage is that, as you get a lot of titles on a kindle 3, it takes the device longer and longer to switch pages.

Can't you 'archive' books so that they are still on your account (and available forever) but not actually sitting on your device? I have a Kindle Touch (ink display), but don't know what model it is otherwise, but I can certainly archive to free up memory (I love those free classics too!).

Also, every University Lecturer I had that had published a text book made it a required text for their class. We all knew it was so they would get royalties!

Also, every University Lecturer I had that had published a text book made it a required text for their class. We all knew it was so they would get royalties!

Actually I think they just wanted to use the best work available. The royalties are about how much? Half a day teaching? Or it is a very big class.

You can download all (or most) the classics from different websites - can't you just copy them on the Kindle via USB, or is that "DRM and environment" crap so crappy that you can't even change the data on your own device? (OK, you don't own the data on your Kindle anyway, Amazon does and can delete whatever they like btw.)

Also, every University Lecturer I had that had published a text book made it a required text for their class. We all knew it was so they would get royalties!

Actually I think they just wanted to use the best work available. The royalties are about how much? Half a day teaching? Or it is a very big class.

I'm in the UK, lecturers are not particularly well-paid. And a first year History 101 course? There are a lot of students! Of course, they'll tell you it's the best work available, and I'm not saying they were bad books... but when every lecturer has written THE text you need for their course, well, if it were very specialist areas, maybe. But for first year undergrad courses, I do think they are motivated by self-interest (and I don't blame them one bit!)