Those explanations on those docs are based on old outdated philosophy and have been proven inadequate for a few hundred years. Basically that doc states that time is outside human existence. I was watching a series by stephen hawking and one of the episodes was dealing with philosophy....which reaffirms my belief that Philosophy, especially modern philosophy is far ahead of most sciences today.

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Those explanations on those docs are based on old outdated philosophy and have been proven inadequate for a few hundred years. Basically that doc states that time is outside human existence. I was watching a series by stephen hawking and one of the episodes was dealing with philosophy....which reaffirms my belief that Philosophy, especially modern philosophy is far ahead of most sciences today.

Brian Greene is outdated for a few hundred years ?
Hell they didn't even know about Relativity until 100 years ago.
Excuse me ??
Please explain EXACTLY what you are talking about.
Relativity PROVES that time, (whatever it is DOES exist outside your mind).
I think of time as emergent from a summation of wave function collapse(s).

Insufferable know-it-all.
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche

(24-09-2012 09:22 PM)I and I Wrote: Those explanations on those docs are based on old outdated philosophy and have been proven inadequate for a few hundred years. Basically that doc states that time is outside human existence. I was watching a series by stephen hawking and one of the episodes was dealing with philosophy....which reaffirms my belief that Philosophy, especially modern philosophy is far ahead of most sciences today.

Brian Greene is outdated for a few hundred years ?
Hell they didn't even know about Relativity until 100 years ago.
Excuse me ??
Please explain EXACTLY what you are talking about.
Relativity PROVES that time, (whatever it is DOES exist outside your mind).
I think of time as emergent from a summation of wave function collapse(s).

Time does not exist outside our human mind(s). The modern scientific notion of time as you mentioned above is based on the cartesian notion of human relationships to outside reality. (this cartesian notion contradicts one of descartes other notions but that is a different topic). Anyway, time as Hegel formulated, is an a apriori because of human memory. we don't remember every second of every experience so we have gaps which give us the feeling of time passing. Time/memory/knowledge is the continuous attempts to fill in those gaps, whether they are from our personal life or from way in the past like scientists deal with.

Even the idea of time being a linear past-present-future has been heavily argued against by philosophers for some time.

(24-09-2012 09:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Brian Greene is outdated for a few hundred years ?
Hell they didn't even know about Relativity until 100 years ago.
Excuse me ??
Please explain EXACTLY what you are talking about.
Relativity PROVES that time, (whatever it is DOES exist outside your mind).
I think of time as emergent from a summation of wave function collapse(s).

Time does not exist outside our human mind(s). The modern scientific notion of time as you mentioned above is based on the cartesian notion of human relationships to outside reality. (this cartesian notion contradicts one of descartes other notions but that is a different topic). Anyway, time as Hegel formulated, is an a apriori because of human memory. we don't remember every second of every experience so we have gaps which give us the feeling of time passing. Time/memory/knowledge is the continuous attempts to fill in those gaps, whether they are from our personal life or from way in the past like scientists deal with.

Even the idea of time being a linear past-present-future has been heavily argued against by philosophers for some time.

The moon is made of green cheese.
You can assert anything you want. It does not make it true.

Obviously you have no clue about Physics and Relativity.
If I have 2 atomic clocks, and send 1 up in a plane, and it goes faster for a period of time, than the one which is on Earth, the one that comes back, tells a DIFFERENT time than the one that stayed on Earth. So, whatever it is, it is NOT just in your mind, and *something* is obviously going on that is EXTERNAL to your mind, or the clocks could NOT be different, and both be right.

The perception problem you mention does not refute the reality of time. (Dr. David Eagleman, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Eagleman ), (many YouTube vids, and Ted talks), in Texas, among many others, has worked on the time perception problem). The fact that your perception may not be accurate, in no way refutes time as real. All the perception experiments prove, is that our perception may, at times, not record EVENTS IN TIME, correctly. The mis-perception of events, does not refute time itself.

Insufferable know-it-all.
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche

(24-09-2012 10:16 PM)I and I Wrote: Time does not exist outside our human mind(s). The modern scientific notion of time as you mentioned above is based on the cartesian notion of human relationships to outside reality. (this cartesian notion contradicts one of descartes other notions but that is a different topic). Anyway, time as Hegel formulated, is an a apriori because of human memory. we don't remember every second of every experience so we have gaps which give us the feeling of time passing. Time/memory/knowledge is the continuous attempts to fill in those gaps, whether they are from our personal life or from way in the past like scientists deal with.

Even the idea of time being a linear past-present-future has been heavily argued against by philosophers for some time.

The moon is made of green cheese.
You can assert anything you want. It does not make it true.

Obviously you have no clue about Physics and Relativity.
If I have 2 atomic clocks, and send 1 up in a plane, and it goes faster for a period of time, than the one which is on Earth, the one that comes back, tells a DIFFERENT time than the one that stayed on Earth. So, whatever it is, it is NOT just in your mind, and *something* is obviously going on that is EXTERNAL to your mind, or the clocks could NOT be different, and both be right.

The perception problem you mention does not refute the reality of time. (Dr. David Eagleman, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Eagleman ), (many YouTube vids, and Ted talks), in Texas, among many others, has worked on the time perception problem). The fact that your perception may not be accurate, in no way refutes time as real. All the perception experiments prove, is that our perception may, at times, not record EVENTS IN TIME, correctly. The mis-perception of events, does not refute time itself.

I am not making an "it's all in your head" amataur philosophy statment. I am saying that events and things do exist outside our minds and our attempts to conceptualize them through memory and "understanding" is what creates the sense of what we call time. This method of understanding the events around us is in our head, the objects and events we are attempting to understand us are not "just in our heads".

Well, then you misstated your thread. You said "time", not "the perception of time". They are two entirely different things. If you wanted to discuss the perception of time, you should have stated it as such. There is no debate about the misperception.

Insufferable know-it-all.
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche

(24-09-2012 10:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Well, then you misstated your thread. You said "time", not "the perception of time". They are two entirely different things. If you wanted to discuss the perception of time, you should have stated it as such.

I just said time because some people believe that it is an entity that exists somewhere....some people do not, which would make a good philosophical debate.

How time is an entity that exists somewhere i have yet to see any evidence.