A shiatload of people on Fark clearly know shiat all about legal matters, as could be witnessed in the 'They didn't read his miranda rights!!' discussion, or in this thread where people believe that incitement to violence and fighting words are in fact Free Speech.

you don't get to shut down the first amendment just because you don't like what someone says. For my part, I prefer to see the Klan and the Nazis organizing marches and out in public. that way I know exactly where they are and what they're doing. loud and in public means they're not prepping to blow something up or murder their enemies. As a bonus, we get a free show and get to rip 'em apart online, in youtube videos, blogs and twitter commentary.

But shutting down political speech just because you don't like it? that makes you no different from the people you claim to hate.

Sorry might have accidentally mark this as funny, which it is not.

when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

they came for X but I was not X is a lesson.they haven't been much out in public since the 90s and I know your old enough to remember, but look at what happened to your political system, who do you think the tea party is.

Defending yourself is not wrong and to equate defending yourself against fascists with fascists is wrong.

I never said they didn't exist, I was merely replying to your contention that the groups are "exploding all over the place". I've sent time in 4 southern states in the last 5 years. Only one time have I run across anyone who I susected to be a member of such a group--guy was a tweeker who just got out of jail--easily identifiable as a racist dickbag because of his "88" tat. I am white. My family is mostly middle and upper class. My job brings me into regular contact with lower and middle class whites. Many of the people you would think are racist hicks by listening to them talk about NASCAR have black friends because of work or school or whatever.

Also, if you'd pay attention you'd realize that I never said we didn't have a problem anymore. I said the problem is being churched up so fine, upstanding citizens can embrace it in a guise that isn't so overtly ugly as racism.

albatros183:when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

Mock26:Like it or not, hateful speech is protected by the Constitution in this country. But, hateful speech != hate speech. And so long as they are not breaking the law then their intolerant speech must be tolerated, legally speaking, of course. But, toleration is not the same as approval. Nor does it mean that you cannot speak out against them. For the record, I hate racists and scum like that. But, they have rights, and those rights must be upheld. Also, I agree with you. If their speech breaks the law in any way, shape, or form (fighting words, inciting violence, slander, libel, etc.) then the full weight of the law should come down on them.

And why would I call you a monster or compare you to Hitler? I have no beef with you for having an opinion that is different from mine. With Tatsuma, though, she/he has a long history of being a troll so I have no compunction with letting the invectives fly

Considering how people tend to react when it comes to the Bill of Rights, I was covering my bases.

I just don't believe that we need to accept absolutely everything on the basis of "fairness". These people have spend more than a century being backwards un-evolved jackanapes, it's time to either drag them into the modern age or clean them up like the stains they are. They should be stopped from swaying others to their evil and from indoctrinating their children to be evil. I'm all for freedom of speech, but perverting it like this shouldn't be tolerated.

Weaver95:albatros183: when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

Tatsuma:albatros183: Fun fact the first time someone tried to form a KKK chapter in Canada was in Quebec, they where rejected because they were papists :)

Fun fact, an headline on the biggest newspaper in Quebec during WWII was 'No Jews is Too Many' asking to make sure that refugees on MS St-Louis would not be given safe harbor.

They had to turn back and about half of them ended up in the gas chambers.

To be fair Canada only rejected the MS St-Louis and it's Jewish refugees after it had first been refused entry into Cuba and the US and by most accounts about 25% of them ended up in the gas chambers not 50% but other than that? Yeah, fun facts *are* fun. The "None is too many" headline was a quote from an unnamed immigration official asked by the paper how many Jewish refugees would be allowed into Canada.

Sadly,Canada was a pretty racist country at that time, we even had internment camps for Canadians of Japanese descent like the US did. Even after WWII ended and the full horrors of the holocaust were revealed Germans still had an easier time immigrating to Canada than Jews.

Shameful days that we do well to remember.

But what is the best way to avoid a repeat? Free speech or hate speech laws?

Lionel Mandrake:Weaver95: albatros183: when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

But they might hurt his feelings!!

so go home and have angry sex with your girlfriend. don't shred the Bill of Rights just because you feel insecure.

Weaver95:albatros183: when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

Tatsuma:Three Crooked Squirrels: There right to do this, if they applied for the proper permits, etc., is well established. See Skokie. Now it is up to us to ignore them.

No, you know who has a right to do this? Any group that does not openly incite violence against others. Once you cross the line and your whole ideology is based around killing others and advocating so, you lose the right to openly hold marches while everyone ignores your stupid ideas.

Rockstone:Tatsuma: Three Crooked Squirrels: There right to do this, if they applied for the proper permits, etc., is well established. See Skokie. Now it is up to us to ignore them.

No, you know who has a right to do this? Any group that does not openly incite violence against others. Once you cross the line and your whole ideology is based around killing others and advocating so, you lose the right to openly hold marches while everyone ignores your stupid ideas.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

As much as I hate racists (and as much as they hate me- considering I'm Catholic with Jewish Ancestry), freedom of speech trumps my feelings about them.

Tatsuma:Three Crooked Squirrels: There right to do this, if they applied for the proper permits, etc., is well established. See Skokie. Now it is up to us to ignore them.

No, you know who has a right to do this? Any group that does not openly incite violence against others. Once you cross the line and your whole ideology is based around killing others and advocating so, you lose the right to openly hold marches while everyone ignores your stupid ideas.

so is that your view, or how they run things in Israel? i'm legitimately curious....

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:SubBass49: Everyone talks about freedom of speech, but few mention that that freedom is from GOVERNMENT intervention in your speech. It doesn't preclude your boss from firing you, people from thinking you're a douchebag, and other such repercussions of your "free speech."

While I may disagree with Tatsuma on matters of Israeli politics & zionism, I agree that neo-nazi fascists and white-power scumbags ought to get their asses beat down at every possible turn. Sure, the people doing it will have to accept legal repercussions when they commit crimes in attacking such morons, but that's part of the deal.

See the above post for an example a real incitement to violence

I just feel that if there is a group of people willing to go out in the streets and threaten people who have done nothing to them with violence, then they should taste the full force of what they themselves preach. It's like spitting or pissing into the wind...maybe next time you wont spit/piss in public. If every time these farktards advocated beating down people who are brown, they themselves were beaten down, it would sure put a quick end to their little tard-parties.

Weaver95:Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: albatros183: when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

But they might hurt his feelings!!

so go home and have angry sex with your girlfriend. don't shred the Bill of Rights just because you feel insecure.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:Weaver95: Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: albatros183: when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

But they might hurt his feelings!!

so go home and have angry sex with your girlfriend. don't shred the Bill of Rights just because you feel insecure.

Aren't you vocally anti-2nd amendment?

no, I just despise the NRA and their tactics. wanna own a gun, have at it. kill someone with it, we're gonna have a problem tho.

Tatsuma:Three Crooked Squirrels: There right to do this, if they applied for the proper permits, etc., is well established. See Skokie. Now it is up to us to ignore them.

No, you know who has a right to do this? Any group that does not openly incite violence against others. Once you cross the line and your whole ideology is based around killing others and advocating so, you lose the right to openly hold marches while everyone ignores your stupid ideas.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:Weaver95: Lionel Mandrake: Weaver95: albatros183: when people organize and deliberately target people that have no power(here it's been blacks and gypsies) and they not only advocate but carry out violence towards those people, I should stay silent?, your not silent on republicans. When they start to take their second amendment solutions will you stay silent?.

if they commit violence then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. if they just TALK, then leave them alone and let 'em talk.

But they might hurt his feelings!!

so go home and have angry sex with your girlfriend. don't shred the Bill of Rights just because you feel insecure.

Aren't you vocally anti-2nd amendment?

He's just anti-Israel which I get but he's still wrong.

for me it boils down to this

1)Jews have been hated and murdered for hundreds of years.2)The nazis mechanized this and pretty much murdered almost every jew in Europe3)Jews need a place that they can have their own army and protect themselves4)Israel is not the right place.

If you support the IRA, or Scot's independence, you must support both Israel AND Palestine.People must be free from threat, or you cannot have any kind of civilization and what is there?failure on all fronts, protecting neither Jew nor Palestinian.

Say what you want by Isrealies are also dying and it is disproportionate.

SubBass49:Lionel Mandrake: SubBass49: If every time these farktards advocated beating down people who are brown, they themselves were beaten down, it would sure put a quick end to their little tard-parties.

No it wouldn't. It would drive them underground and they would have to find other ways of "fighting ZOG" or whatever the fark it is they think they do.

I have no doubt several would stop dressing like skinheads, put away the robes and start dressing like "normal" people, then gather with their buddies to build bombs and discuss targets.

Let the farkers talk.

You don't think they already do this?

You don't think pissing them off more would have consequences?

Generally, people who are allowed to vent their frustrations are less dangerous than those who bottle them up.

Lionel Mandrake:SubBass49: Lionel Mandrake: SubBass49: If every time these farktards advocated beating down people who are brown, they themselves were beaten down, it would sure put a quick end to their little tard-parties.

No it wouldn't. It would drive them underground and they would have to find other ways of "fighting ZOG" or whatever the fark it is they think they do.

I have no doubt several would stop dressing like skinheads, put away the robes and start dressing like "normal" people, then gather with their buddies to build bombs and discuss targets.

Let the farkers talk.

You don't think they already do this?

You don't think pissing them off more would have consequences?

Generally, people who are allowed to vent their frustrations are less dangerous than those who bottle them up.

Their "frustrations" are the existence of people with skin darker than theirs. Venting doesn't move them closer to their goal of ridding the planet of such people. Regardless, these rallies aren't venting exercises, they're recruiting & advertising.

Keizer_Ghidorah:Mock26: Like it or not, hateful speech is protected by the Constitution in this country. But, hateful speech != hate speech. And so long as they are not breaking the law then their intolerant speech must be tolerated, legally speaking, of course. But, toleration is not the same as approval. Nor does it mean that you cannot speak out against them. For the record, I hate racists and scum like that. But, they have rights, and those rights must be upheld. Also, I agree with you. If their speech breaks the law in any way, shape, or form (fighting words, inciting violence, slander, libel, etc.) then the full weight of the law should come down on them.

And why would I call you a monster or compare you to Hitler? I have no beef with you for having an opinion that is different from mine. With Tatsuma, though, she/he has a long history of being a troll so I have no compunction with letting the invectives fly

Considering how people tend to react when it comes to the Bill of Rights, I was covering my bases.

I just don't believe that we need to accept absolutely everything on the basis of "fairness". These people have spend more than a century being backwards un-evolved jackanapes, it's time to either drag them into the modern age or clean them up like the stains they are. They should be stopped from swaying others to their evil and from indoctrinating their children to be evil. I'm all for freedom of speech, but perverting it like this shouldn't be tolerated.

Where do you draw the line? And who gets to draw it? That is my problem with the restriction of free speech. And once you draw that line what is the guarantee that it will stay where it is drawn? I would much rather live in a society where someone can stand on a street corner and say, "Purple people are subhuman scum of the earth" than one where Group A can declare something offensive and it then becomes illegal to say something.

Tatsuma:Keizer_Ghidorah: "Stop intolerating their intolerance! Everyone has a God-given right to preach and incite death and terror on those they hate! You're even worse than they are for demanding their hate and evil be stopped!"

Exactly. I really wish you could associate faces with posts, because I really think that the idea of 'White Privilege' would really come to life in this thread. I get the feeling that 95% of those saying they have a right to free speech and do what they are doing and should just be ignored are white men.

/Other 5% white women.

Rodeodoc: I've said it before and I'll say it again: The greatest threat to America comes not from terrorists or other who wish her harm. It comes from within; it comes from those who are charged with the obligation to protect our rights and freedoms.

Relevant:The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. - H.L. Mencken

If for no other reason, sheer self-interest tells us to refrain from censoring even the most vitriolic of demagogues because we despise the words they use. Any infringement upon their rights will invariably be used as a precedent for infringing upon the rights of others- including us.

Better than censorship is the power of public mockery. If the hate-mongers among us wish to exercise their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights of free speech and free assembly, they will have to endure the free speech of those who find their ideas and world view despicable. If they can't abide people making fun of their ideas, perhaps they shouldn't have ideas so easily mocked.

"... that laughter is the Gods' best gift, so to the Gods our laughter lift.Aye, thought their wrath the Heavens split,they grant us Scorn, to laugh at it."- Robert Service

Mock26:Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Like it or not, hateful speech is protected by the Constitution in this country. But, hateful speech != hate speech. And so long as they are not breaking the law then their intolerant speech must be tolerated, legally speaking, of course. But, toleration is not the same as approval. Nor does it mean that you cannot speak out against them. For the record, I hate racists and scum like that. But, they have rights, and those rights must be upheld. Also, I agree with you. If their speech breaks the law in any way, shape, or form (fighting words, inciting violence, slander, libel, etc.) then the full weight of the law should come down on them.

And why would I call you a monster or compare you to Hitler? I have no beef with you for having an opinion that is different from mine. With Tatsuma, though, she/he has a long history of being a troll so I have no compunction with letting the invectives fly

Considering how people tend to react when it comes to the Bill of Rights, I was covering my bases.

I just don't believe that we need to accept absolutely everything on the basis of "fairness". These people have spend more than a century being backwards un-evolved jackanapes, it's time to either drag them into the modern age or clean them up like the stains they are. They should be stopped from swaying others to their evil and from indoctrinating their children to be evil. I'm all for freedom of speech, but perverting it like this shouldn't be tolerated.

Where do you draw the line? And who gets to draw it? That is my problem with the restriction of free speech. And once you draw that line what is the guarantee that it will stay where it is drawn? I would much rather live in a society where someone can stand on a street corner and say, "Purple people are subhuman scum of the earth" than one where Group A can declare something offensive and it then becomes illegal to say something.

If it's as cartoony evil as what they're doing, then it should be stopped. These people want the destruction and genocide of all non-whites, it's no secret and they've already tried to fulfill it before. Tolerating them is inexcusable.

Anyone who demands that it be applied to lesser things gets slapped in the face with a carp.

albatros183:Lionel Mandrake: albatros183: Two oppressed people have been made to compete for the same land

"made?"

How so and by whom?

really?

OK

The english, the spanish, the dutch, maybe you missed serfdom and slavery

but whetever

Silly me. I was led to understand that Israel was the one and only place in the world that the Jews wanted to go. I was even told that they had spent generations immigrating to the region to establish a Jewish majority (this started long before WWII). I was even told that Jewish terrorists attacked British soldiers when the UK "administered" took the land after WWI

From what we could tell, no one was local. The NSM group was from Detroit and they all seemed to be driving (foreign) cars with out of state plates. They had a megaphone and ranted for an hour and it was noisy but I never heard them advocate actual violence. Just a lot about all immigrants wanting to murder us, chanting and white power salutes.

Savage Belief:As appalled as I an by the kkk and neo nazi groups' actions and beliefs, this liberal twatwaffle needs to DIAF. I mean really. Go sit in a commune andeat shrooms and smoke some weed ya farking hippie biatch.

The writer is from a generic sprawling suburb of Atlanta. Those areas tend to be so red that even people in Utah ask them to tone it down a bit. While he might truly believe what he's writing, I'm going to guess that he's really engaging in hyperbole to mock liberal viewpoints. Or maybe living out there has simply driven him insane.