Atlanta Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan coaches kids at the Colonial Pro-Am Football Camp at William and Mary in Williamsburg on Tuesday.David Teel

June 26, 2013

WILLIAMSBURG — The last time Matt Ryan had touched down in Virginia, he crushed the hopes of thousands. Tuesday's visit was far more benign.

Ryan, the Atlanta Falcons' Pro Bowl quarterback out of Boston College, appeared at William and Mary's youth football camp, interacting with the kids and reliving his own childhood.

This was, Ryan surmised, his first trip to the state since 2007, when on a Thursday night now infamous to Virginia Tech faithful, he threw two touchdown passes in the waning moments to give second-ranked Boston College a 14-10 victory over the No. 8 Hokies in rainy Lane Stadium.

Tech avenged that defeat in the ACC championship game, but the October comeback helped Ryan earn ACC player of the year honors and a place in BC lore just below Doug Flutie. The Falcons drafted Ryan with the third overall pick the following spring and haven't looked back since.

Joining a franchise still staggering from Michael Vick's messy departure, Ryan started from Day One and has led Atlanta to five consecutive winning seasons and four playoff appearances. Prior to his arrival, the Falcons had never enjoyed back-to-back winning records.

"I think consistency's probably the hardest thing to … maintain throughout your professional career," Ryan told reporters Tuesday. "To me it all comes down to working hard. You have to remain focused on what's important. … I think it's easy with all the distractions that come with playing in the NFL to lose sight of that."

The Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson and Indianapolis Colts' Andrew Luck, who both quarterbacked their teams to the playoffs as rookies last season, preceded Ryan at W&M's camp this week, and either would be fortunate to follow Ryan's career arc.

Yes, he's only 1-4 in the playoffs, the stage where greatness is measured and revealed. But his numbers have steadily improved, and last season he posted personal bests with 4,712 passing yards, 32 touchdown passes, a 68.6-percent completion rate and 99.1 passer rating.View/Submit Comments for this story

Not coincidentally, the Falcons went 13-3 and reached the NFC championship game. But playing at home, Atlanta squandered a 17-0 lead and lost 28-24 to the San Francisco 49ers.

"Certainly we haven't reached where we want to be at this point," Ryan said.

The Falcons, especially on offense, have Super Bowl talent. Receivers Roddy White and Julio Jones are back, and tight end Tony Gonzalez, a future Hall of Famer, delayed retirement. Offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter enters his second season after interviewing for head-coaching positions, and the team acquired former St. Louis Rams running back Steven Jackson.

"We've been together for a while now, the core of our football team," Ryan said. "I'm excited about what's in front of us, what we're capable of doing, what we know we're capable of doing. …

"I think Steven will be big. He's obviously a great player, been one of the best running backs in the league for the last (nine) years. His style of play and his skill set fits in well with what we do. He's very good at catching the ball out of the backfield. He's very good at pass protection. He's very good in one-back running schemes."

Jackson rushed for 1,000-plus yards the past eight seasons, but given the position's burdens, he's ancient as he approaches his 30th birthday next month. Conversely, Ryan turned 28 in May and should be hitting his prime.

Ryan said Koetter has "a great understanding of how to get the best out of the guys we have. He's pushed me to become a better player, and I appreciate that."

Ryan also praised Tom O'Brien, Virginia's associate head coach for offense. As Boston College's big whistle from 1997-2006, O'Brien recruited Ryan and coached him through his junior season.

"I really enjoyed playing for him my time at BC," Ryan said. "The thing I always loved about him is you knew exactly where you stood with him. He's not much for nonsense … but if you handled things the way you're supposed to, you were always good with Tom.

"He's still a guy I keep in touch with and (he) has obviously meant a tremendous amount to my career and to me personally."

I believe its first about becoming consistently good!! I think we've done that now, so the rings will come eventually...... I do think its more about being consistently good?? The all or nothing theory just leaves 31cities without any feeling of playing good football!!

I know many don't agree; but you got to take into account the salary cap. Dallas did great when you could buy a ring, but besides Jerry Jones buying attention, teams like that don't mean anything to me!!

Will see what happens Cyril but Ryan must take the next step. Brady and Rothlisberger have numerous Super Bowl Rings. Manning and Rodgers have at least won the big one. One thing these Qbs have in common they consistently our a threat to taking ther team to achampionship. We just need to see Ryan take the next step and hopefully soon.

_________________Sometimes running the Mularkey offense makes me feel like I'm in a prison.

I think Ryan took that step last year. Like I've been saying for the past 9 months, I don't think one can realistically expect Ryan to play any better than he did last year.

The next step has to be the Falcons actually get a supporting cast around Ryan that actually is worthy of winning a ring. The Falcons have yet to do that yet. Yet, the focus will always be on Ryan when in fact like Peyton Manning in Indianapolis he is primarily supported by an average group of players. Manning only won his title when the rest of that group stepped up and their playoff team was largely carried by Addai's running and improved defensive play that they did not have during the regular season. Big Ben won his titles in years where the Steelers was either in the Top 5 defenses in the league. Both years that Manning won, the Giants pass rush was dominant down the stretch.

The Ravens have consistently won in January over the years because they can run the ball and can create turnovers on defense. That was the case last year as well. Now, Joe Flacco did "step up" last year but that was because during the regular season he was decidedly average. They were able to run with success in January (Rice & Pierce combined for 500+ yds in 4 games), and they had a run-pass balance of 51:49. Their defense was able to generate pressure (3 sacks each vs. IND, DEN & SF), create turnovers (10 in 4 games), and had a +6 turnover ratio.

Combined in 5 playoff appearances, the Falcons have rushed for 417 yards (meaning in 1 season Rice & Pierce outpaced the Falcons over 5 years), with a run-pass balance of 35:65 over the years. They've generated just 6 sacks, created 5 turnovers, and had a turnover ratio of -6. Now Ryan has contributed to that turnover ratio, but if all you read into those numbers is "Ryan needs to stop turning the ball over" then you're completely missing the point.

Look, I've said these things before and I don't think I'm breaking news to anybody about this. But the Falcons don't get this sort of production from their supporting cast, at least they have not over the years. Ryan doesn't have a "playoff-caliber" supporting cast, at least hasn't had one yet. They need to be able to generate more production on the ground, and their defense needs to be able to win/compete on the road in January. Those are what many Super Bowl winning teams have, and the Falcons don't have that.

If/when they get that and Ryan struggles, then Ryan can be the primary problem.

I pretty much agree with you, Pudge. I think Ryan has probably had a championship caliber cast but all the pieces have not fallen together at the right time. All the teams that have won rings were not perfect. It is hardly possible in the modern NFL. As Cyril says, up until the mid 90s you could largely buy a championship. Last year the running game was sub par whereas earlier in MR's tenure it carried the team. The D has always been suspect but teams have won rings with suspect defenses before.

Matt is just below the elite five or so QBs in the league so his and the team's margin for error is smaller than for a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers. He is certainly benefited by the myriad of weapons he has been given on offense. And I have to say that the fumbled snap was on him and was the pivotal play in the NFCCG. Right when it happened I got a deja vu Falcon feeling in my belly. You cannot make mistakes playing what was probably a superior team. But I have moved out of skepticism to being a big Matt fan. He's not ideal but check me if I'm wrong...Rodgers team got beaten like a government mule by a team we were one play away from defeating.

All the stars were aligned last year to win it all from NO being in the penalty box, to the schedule, to the lack of injuries, etc. But actually have a feeling the org is truly solid now and will be even after Ryan is gone. Crazy, huh? It could happen. Look at the Braves.

The Falcons team was capable of winning last year, but I don't think they were likely. Capable referencing the fact that with the right number of breaks, they could have gone to and won the Super Bowl. And they got many of them (Chris Clemons injury being the big one).

Look, and no one will deny that all teams need a couple of breaks to win it all. The Ravens certainly weren't hurt by Rahim Moore vs. DEN, and the fact that Gronk didn't play the following week. And the Giants before them certainly benefited from Kyle Williams and the fact that the Aaron Rodgers had a 3-week layoff before their game. Hell, one can argue the 49ers benefited just as much from the Chris Clemons injury in their Super Bowl bid as much as the Falcons did, as most probably would have considered a SEA-SF NFCCG to be an even matchup.

I just see this Falcon team as so one-dimensional. Their defense isn't good, which means they basically have to be the #1 seed, and if not then they need to hope there is an upset or two to get a home playoff game. This defense just isn't road-ready (and never has been in 5 years).

And their passing attack was great in January, as they generated 9 20+ yard pass plays last year (6 vs. SF, 3 vs. SEA), which was in fact more than they had combined in their final five regular season games. If that passing attack shows up every January, then they are going to be formidable. But if not, what else do they have? Their running game is improved but by how much? Again it was the 29th best rushing team in the league. Look, I'm trying to be optimistic with Steven Jackson on the team, but I don't suddenly expect them to shoot up to 14th or anything. If they improve to say 21st, is that really going to make a difference? And they have a questionable OL. Look, I'm trying to be optimistic that the fresh young faces will improve the unit, but if they are only as good as they were for 75% of last season, then they are nothing more than a liability.

These IMO are fatal flaws, that teams like Seattle and San Francisco can relatively easily exploit.

I am looking for the point when the shoe is on the other foot, and wondering when those teams are going to be looking at this Atlanta team and beating their heads against the wall trying to figure out how they match up with us.

I know people look at our WRs & TEs and think those things. But the reality is that if you're a defense that can get pressure with 4 guys (which the 49ers & Seahawks have done for the most part), then our offensive weapons aren't that scary. If you can hit Ryan in the mouth, then whatever greatness we have on the outside is completely negated because Ryan is such a timing-based passer that doesn't have the mobility or arm strength to pull big plays out of his butt like some of these other QBs on NFC squads (Rodgers, Manning, Wilson, Kaepernick being prime examples).

The Falcons basically will continue to be reliant on getting off to a fast start against teams like SF, hope that they can get an early enough lead to negate their running game, and just hope the defense can hold them off. That certainly is possible, as we saw last year. And if you can generate 6 20+ plays a game, then it becomes infinitely easier. This is why last year, I was constantly stressing their need to consistently generate big plays during the regular season.

Compare the 2011 Giants and the 2012 Falcons. Against their 14 opponents they played in 2011, the Giants were able to generate at least four 20+ pass plays against 11 of them. For a total of 13 games (vs. DAL & PHI twice), or about 65% of their 20 games overall. The Falcons did it against only 7 of their 15 opponents in 2012, for about 39% of their 18 games. The Giants had five or more big pass plays in 5 games in 2011, while the Falcons did it only twice (vs. DAL & SF).

If the Falcons are going to continue to be one-dimensional, then they need to excel at that. This is why the 2011 Giants were the 9th most explosive passing attack in the league, while the 2012 Falcons were the 29th most explosive. And I don't know the exact numbers, but at first glance there seems to be a correlation between explosiveness and success in January.

And I think the issue the Falcons are going to face moving forward is because Matt Ryan isn't a QB that is going to try and drive the ball downfield, the Falcons are always going to be underwhelming in that regard, and thus that puts more pressure on the other aspects of the team (rushing offense & defense) to have to step up because I don't think their passing game alone can carry them as far as people probably think.

I'm looking forward to what team we field this year and whether these flaws continue to be issues...

I agree with the Pudemaster. We still need a little better supporting cast to win "the big one". Look no further than Tom Brady. Yes, he's won Super Bowls, but even his "greatness" hasn't been able to carry them the last few years because of that defense. If Ryan never played another down in the NFL, he still will be labeled as the best QB in our franchise's 40+ year history.

Ryan gives us a chance every Sunday. He's morphed from game manager to dare I say game changer? Maybe not that level yet, but he's stepped forward every year. That's all we can ask, isn't it?

Has Brady ever had much of a RB other than Simon? Honest question. Aside from Moss--who was arguably past his prime--has he ever had anything like the WR tandem we have? Similar questions could be asked about Rodgers, I think. The Packers have not had a game changing RB since the 60s, have they?

Brady has the line and the defense. Ryan has the receiving corps, but no line, and virtually no defense. This is why Pudge keeps saying, "one-dimensional." The Patriots are not the best defense in the league, but they're pretty darn good. Likewise, their line isn't the best, but it's pretty darn good. When you have a good line and a good defense, the rest doesn't have to be spectacular. Look at what the Patriots did with Matt Cassel at the helm. 11-5. Matt Cassel is joe average QB. The Patriots are good because they have a well balanced team.

Has Brady ever had much of a RB other than Simon? Honest question. Aside from Moss--who was arguably past his prime--has he ever had anything like the WR tandem we have? Similar questions could be asked about Rodgers, I think. The Packers have not had a game changing RB since the 60s, have they?

Brady had Antowain Smith from 2001-03, Corey Dillon in 2004-06, Laurence Maroney from 2007-09, the Law Firm in 2010 & 2011, and Ridley in 2012. Rodgers had Ryan Grant in 2008 and 2009. And then Grant got hurt in 2010, and they've had a revolving door of nobodies since.

Game-changing RBs? No. Don't need one. Just need someone that can help sustain the offense. I'm hopeful Jackson shows up like Dillon did in '04 and be that player in 2013. If so, then the Falcons should be in a very good position. I don't expect Jackson to put up 120 yards, but if he can give us 70-80 yards against a playoff-caliber defense, then that should be good enough.

Long-term, when Tony & Roddy are gone in 2 years, the Falcons are going to have to get back to runnign the ball and becoming more of a balanced attack with a stronger defense if they want to continue competing at the highest level. That's why it's important to take advantage of this small window now in 2013 and 2014 where they will have those weapons on offense.

Because like it or not, if the status quo from TD is maintained, then there's no reason to believe that the defense or OL is going to be decidedly improved from the past 5 years over the next 5 years. And thus the post 2014 Falcons may just be an average 8-8/9-7 team that will be lucky to make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Roddy won't be gone in two years.... As stupid as his personal thoughts seem to be; he understands making a lot of money. Roddy has really never been a speedster. What I think he's learned from Tony G. is he doesn't have to be the fastest, but he needs to get position and beat corners at catching and hanging on to the football. He's watched Tong G. slow to a crawl but still beat the linebackers out for the ball, I think he'll do the same for about 5 more years!! Don't forget Tony was scheduled for only two years.

As I think back to the mistakes you believe Thomas G. has made (and I can see many too) he does have a skill of making good moves on the fly. Sure we could have a 8-8 season at any time due to injuries; but in thinking to last year; our offensive line didn't give up many sacks, and I bet he picks up some veteran defensive linemen this year, but he never seems to panic. I think he'll keep the Falcon competitive for years except for the few years like Pitt. OR N.Y. had last year. In other words you got to expect a slip every 7 years or so, but as long as he's Gm I don't see us falling way back for years!!

Cyril, I think the reality is that the Falcons won't fall too far as long as Matt Ryan is around. Matt Ryan is the Atlanta Falcons right now. He is carrying this team, and has been for some time.

TD is doing ok as GM. However, he's really not setting the world on fire. That could all change if our defense turns around and the Jackson signing pans out. However, I don't think that we have invested properly in the OL or DL for that to happen. We'll see.

LIke I said, I don't want to paint the picture that TD has done a poor job. But given the lack of improvement this defense has made largely due to FA misses like Robinson & Edwards, and only 2 hits in the draft in Spoon & Moore & Asante in FA/trade. Peters, Biermann, DeCoud, and hopefully Dent are solid players, but they aren't going to be foundation pieces on a road-worthy playoff defense. The Falcons can't afford for Osi to be another lackluster FA pickup, and players like Trufant & Alford are going to have to be a bit more than solid, especially since they had an elite CB in Grimes under fold.

That's the current status quo. And the offense carries us currently, but 3 of our top 5 players are short-timers that are likely going ot be gone by 2015 (Tony, Roddy & S-Jax), and our OL reamins to be seen if they can become more than an average unit. They can't afford for Konz & Holmes to wind up like Johnson, Reynolds, & Hawley and just be OK. Nor can they afford Baker/Blalock to take even a slight step backwards. So TD is going to be in a position really soon from say 2015-20 (i.e. the latter half of Ryan's peak run) that if the OL doesn't make strides, and he doesn't find another dynamic weapon to put across from Julio and a RB with fresh legs to tote the rock, then this Falcon team might be fairly average, especially if they have to rely on a similar-caliber defense.

All one has to do is look at the Chargers. In '07, the Chargers looked like they were headed for a mini-dynasty. But poor GMship by AJ Smith dismantled that team and did a poor job replacing all that talent they had back then (Tomlinson with Ryan Mathews), V-Jax & Gates with whoever the f*** is there now. Their OL is one of the worst in the biz, and their defense is just average at best when it was a Top 5 unit 6 years ago.

I don't know if that will happen. Just saying that if what we're seeing today is the best TD can do, then don't be surprised by 2017 or whenever when people are calling for Matt Ryan's head or Mike Smith's, when the real "culprit" is the GM.

Matt Ryan isn't going to wake up tomorrow and have a rocket for an arm and take this team to a new level. Mike Smith isn't going to suddenly wake up and become an scheming genius and take this team to a new level. They essentially are what they are. But TD can wake up tomorrow and make a great draft pick or FA pickup that takes this team to a new level. So I'm just saying of the Three Cornerstones of the Franchise, the one who is under the most scrutiny moving forward should be the Vegan Jesus.

Matt Ryan could be the next quarterbacl to benefit from the changing quarterback salary landscape. In addition to Stafford, Aaron Rodgers (five-year extension, $110 million, $54 million in guarantees), Joe Flacco (six years, $120.6 million, $52 million in guarantees) and Tony Romo (six year extension, $108 million, $55 million in guarantees) have gotten new deals during the offseason. Ryan, who is scheduled to make $10 million in 2013, is entering the final year of the six-year rookie contract (worth up to $72 million with $34.75 million guaranteed) he signed in 2008.

The Atlanta Falcons should have more of a sense of urgency for a new deal than Ryan. If Ryan plays out his contract, the Falcons will be required to use an exclusive franchise tag on him next year in order to prevent him from negotiating with other teams. It would be a huge risk to place a non-exclusive franchise tag on Ryan because a team potentially in dire need of a quarterback and expected to have an abundance of salary cap room in 2014, such as the Jacksonville Jaguars or Oakland Raiders, would be willing to give up two first-round picks by signing him to an offer sheet the Falcons could have a hard time matching.

It might make sense for the Falcons to approach negotiations from how much it will cost to utilize exclusive franchise tags on Ryan if they haven't already. The exclusive franchise tag is preliminarily projected to be $19.266 million in 2014. It will be based on the average of the top-five quarterback salaries (i.e. salary cap numbers) in 2014 once the restricted free-agent signing period has ended May 2. The figure could be lower if quarterbacks (Romo, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.) with the highest 2014 cap numbers restructure their 2014 contracts to create cap room for their clubs before the end of the franchise-player designation period (March 3). Based on the projected number, a second franchise tag for Ryan in 2015 would be $23,119,200, a 20 percent increase over his 2014 franchise number. Under this approach, the Falcons should be comfortable giving Ryan a five- or six-year contract extension averaging in the $20-million-per-year neighborhood with guarantees comparable to the ones contained in the other top quarterback deals recently signed.

Fortunately for Ryan, Falcons owner Arthur Blank has a history of paying quarterbacks toward the top of the market. Michael Vick signed a nine-year, $120.6 million (with a then-record $37 million in guarantees) contract extension near the end of the 2004 regular season. Vick only had one career playoff victory, just like Ryan, at his contract's signing. However, Vick hadn't led the Falcons to the NFC Championship Game as Ryan did last year.

My guess...Structure. I think the market has set the overall amount of money paid. But you have to figure how much of his contract is going to be signing bonus vs. option bonus vs. roster bonus, how much you want to put in workout bonuses, how much his base salaries are going to be. For a "normal" contract that is going to average $4-5 million/yr., you're not going to have as much leeway with how the money is paid out. But when we're in the $20 million/yr. range, there is a lot more give/take in how the money is given.

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:15 pmPosts: 3576 Cyril, I think the reality is that the Falcons won't fall too far as long as Matt Ryan is around. Matt Ryan is the Atlanta Falcons right now. He is carrying this team, and has been for some time.

Well he's getting better and although it was a long time ago; remember many here and around the league thought Ryan wasn't good enough for the #3 pick. Thomas D. was on his own when he picked Ryan; his first pick as a Gm!! So as long as Thomas D. & Ryan are together I think Thomas D. gets that credit for years.... It sure was not a slam dunk with many calling Dorsey the next " all everything tackle"

You probably don't agree but I think Thomas D. is improving at about the same rate as Ryan. I feel like you got to go with the outcome of the season's and they both won their first playoff game last year..... We don't have a good defense but I think the surrounding cast around Ryan is underrated. 3 all pro receivers and a line that doesn't give up an excessive amount of sacks.

The Tony G. trade and Julio trade will probably go down as the franchise's best!! Ryan is already Atlanta's best Qb ever!! I mean of course Ryan makes mistakes; and so does Thomas D. but Thomas D. is also Atlanta's best G.M. too. I guess I'm saying I think Thomas D. is as good as a General Manager isas Ryan is a Qb.!!

Cyril, I think the reality is that the Falcons won't fall too far as long as Matt Ryan is around. Matt Ryan is the Atlanta Falcons right now. He is carrying this team, and has been for some time.

You probably don't agree but I think Thomas D. is improving at about the same rate as Ryan. I feel like you got to go with the outcome of the season's and they both won their first playoff game last year..... We don't have a good defense but I think the surrounding cast around Ryan is underrated. 3 all pro receivers and a line that doesn't give up an excessive amount of sacks.

is also Atlanta's best G.M. too. I guess I'm saying I think Thomas D. is as good as a General Manager isas Ryan is a Qb.!!

It's hard to evaluate TD while Ryan is around. Yes, TD took a chance on Ryan, and I must say, I was one of the Dorsey crowd. I was wrong about Dorsey, and Ryan. I've been one of Ryan's biggest supporters ever since. When it comes to TD, you have to judge his whole career, not just one move. The truth is that TD has made some fantastic FA acquisitions. He has made some ballsy moves in the draft. With the exception of signing Ray Edwards, TD has been pretty darn great in free agency. His draft moves have gotten some great players, but his regular picks seem to be lacking. Arguably, we are seeing the effects of the Julio draft on the OL and DL. Whatever Julio gives us in the receiving corps, drafting him took away from the defense and OL.

We have not had a decent RG since Harvey Dahl left. Our DL has been John Abraham, and he's no longer on the team. These situations wouldn't be so bad if TD had been able to hit on any of his offensive line or defensive line picks in the draft, but so far, the on-field production from his drafted OL and DL suggests that they aren't anything more than stop-gaps. We have drafted a lot of OL and DL since TD has been here, and there's very little to show for it.

To your last statement, that TD is at least as good as Ryan... I would like to agree with this, but I just can't bite on it. Ryan is among the best at his position in the league. He is carrying a team with little running game, and no defense. He has some fantastic targets to throw to, but other than that, the Falcons live and die with Ryan. If Ryan were to go down in week 1, the best we could hope for would be to finish the season with a handful of wins. TD doesn't bring that level of dominance to the team. If he did, then we would have won a Superbowl already.

I submit that TD is a fairly average GM, capable of making some big moves on draft day, and in free agency. However, he has not proven to be very good outside of those big moves. Before the Julio Jones trade, I felt that we were a couple of pieces away from being a long-term, dominant team. However, since that trade, we've had the exact same holes on the team that we did then. It's hard for me to give a lot of credit to TD when we still have the same problems that we had 3 years ago. Julio Jones wasn't the answer to getting a superbowl title. Building the offensive and defensive lines would have been. We spent our top two picks this year on defensive backs. I simply cannot see any way in which this team has done anything to address that we blew two huge leads in the playoffs. We blew those leads because we couldn't run the ball, and we couldn't stop the run. Our OL is seemingly weaker than it was a year ago. Our best defensive lineman is no longer on the team, and we've retooled the secondary. The linebackers that got repeatedly torched by TEs in the playoffs are still our starters.

Matt Ryan has adjusted and improved over time. I cannot say that Thomas Dimitroff has. Every draft has the potential to swing things, so I guess we'll see how this year's draft class pans out.

I want to be clear... I don't hate TD. I think that he's pretty average. Like Smith, he is benefiting from a fantastic QB. I sincerely doubt that the Falcons would be where they are today if they had Joe Flacco as their QB.

I sincerely doubt that the Falcons would be where they are today if they had Joe Flacco as their QB.

Im with you until that last sentence. I believe Flacco could have handled the situation as well if not better then Matt Ryan. Just because he went to a team with a powerhouse defense does not mean he could not have accomplished the same things as Ryan. Flacco would have succeeded here, too.

Now the question is, would Ryan have had the same effect/results had he gone to Baltimore?

I guess we have to have something inherently unprovable to argue about now that it can't be Vick vs. coaches and supporting cast. The team is among the tops in the league at retaining homegrown talent and we have been the conferences' leader in wins two out of the last three seasons, I think, and yet our GM--who has been voted executive of the year twice--is "average." I just don't see that. Now, clearly, actual wins and voting by NFL peers pales in comparison to we folks on an NFL message board but I would humbly suggest that Dimitrof is not the 15th best GM in the league. As to Flacco, it is quite possible he would have achieved what Ryan has but, again, it is unknowable. Their situations are pretty different.

Ryan is considerably better than Flacco... At least, Ryan has been asked to be more than Flacco has, and Ryan has responded. Don't get me wrong, Flacco had an impeccable playoff run last year. Lots of QBs have had a good run or two along the way. But on a season to season basis, Ryan has been the better QB, hands down. Flacco hasn't even thrown for 4,000 yards in his career. Ryan has done it twice. Most TDs in a season by Flacco is 25. Ryan has done better three times. Since Ryan has been in the league, he has more come from behind wins than anyone.

I just can't see Flacco being able to do what Ryan has been able to do. Flacco has a MUCH better team behind him, and that's why he won a Superbowl. Ryan has a better receiving corps than Flacco, but that's about it. The Ravens are superior to the Falcons is just about every other area.

I admit some of this can never be proved; but Thomas D. did get Ryan when others wanted Dorsey. That's a career choice!! All the stuff Thomas D. might have done vs. all the stuff Ryan might have done; can only really be measured at the end of the season. Its ok for anyone to think the Julio move hurt us; but I think you judge a Gm by their wins in the season and wins in post season. I think Ryan can be judged this way too, since his great play won us a playoff game; but his mistakes may have cost us a Super Bowl; the same for Thomas D. ........I understand their not the same jobs, but Thomas D. picking Ryan makes Ryan a part of Thomas D.'s legacy; one that can't be short changed!!

I also understand you can't really judge a Qb to a General Manager but its good off season discussion sinceThomas D. picking Ryan was not a 100% pick to most!! IMO the Julio trade made Ryan a better QB, because Ryan then strengthened his arm and learned how to throw an accurate deep pass. (and those that like Thomas D. will probably agree and those that like Ryan better probably won't agree)!!

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