The recording below is missing the last three minutes. It took me 2-3 days figuring out how to upload a jpeg image and an mp3 file on youtube. I don’t know why the last minutes aren’t there. If anyone can support me with how to get longer mp3 recordings, between 20-45 minutes (easily) available online somewhere for listening, you are welcome to contact me through email: milla.ahola@gmail.com or even better, on skype: feministsister

I’m really struggling with depression/stress/anxiety at the moment, so I would find practical help like this, very useful (helpful, supportive).

August 4, the first recording:

The first recording failed – it turned out the program on the computer only keeps one minute of audio – so, we started with another one. In the first recording I asked Daniel to describe the conflict process between us, and my short sum up of that goes something like this: First not wanting an intimate relation with me, and then not wanting to have any relation with me – finding the talks we had lacking meaning.

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Since I felt rather lost what to start talking about in order for the conversations to have any meaning for me, I suggested when we started over, for Daniel to read an online text chat that I had had a few days earlier with a stranger on NVC Link, a messenger-system where people can ask for empathy, chats and practice. I had ended up doing a role-play with someone called Chris, and both Chris and I had been playing the part of Daniel. I was curious how Daniel would read this text, so the second recorded talk started after Daniel had read this chat.

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[Daniel 0:33] “Yeah, I think it’s kind of like a good model of how our conversations were going for a really long time, when I was trying to block you, or something, so yeah, I think I recognize myself” … [Daniel 1:35] “it was fairly interesting to read, because, it’s like, yeah it gives, I guess it puts your perspective into it, that like, how does it feel to be blocked. Like, this kind of putting, like, putting up the wall or something, and then, not being able to get through that”

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[Daniel 4:13] “I was really glad I think, when we like, when I just blocked you completely, and didn’t even have these frustrating conversations, because they really didn’t have a point, I shouldn’t have had them. I feel some regret about having a lot of these conversations, like I should have just blocked you, and not like, ehm, like do this double messaging”

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[Milla 8:20] “So, maybe it’s important for you to be heard, in that you kind of, you see that, eeh, what you were choosing to do to protect yourself and your own space”.. [Daniel 8:30] “Yeah yeah, that was..” [Milla 8:32] “..was not really working, and also that you could see that it, it could also, uuh, cause, or like, have an effect on how I was experiencing..” [Daniel 8:48] “Yeah..” [Milla 8:49] “the situation” [Daniel 8:50] “..yeah yeah yeah. I think I can see both, pretty clearly”

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[Daniel 9:01] “And, I might add, on like, your analysis, or like your reflection on, on how you see like, my goals, like, of peace and being at peace, and whatever, like, this is, like, blocking someone is not my idea of peace, ehm, it’s just like, I don’t know, maybe a choice of, I don’t know, it was, the, like the least, the the, the option that was, like, minimizing the damage, for me. So, in a way, like we earlier talked about, like me describing myself as, like, selfish, and then we had some kind of conversation yesterday about this or something, and yeah, so that’s, I see this as selfish, and at the same time useful for me, like, but I can also see how it’s not considerate towards you, like, so I would say that it’s maybe not striving for peace, but rather, like, minimizing the damage”

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[Daniel 11:13] “at that time, I don’t think I was seeing any ways of how I could be considerate, but retrospectively, eeh, I would say yes, ehm, I could have been more considerate. I guess it was kind of a limited state of mind.” [Milla 11:43] “So, you were feeling really alarmed, or you didn’t see that you had many options, or just like, trying to to, to end this distress as fast as possible, or as quickly as possible” [Daniel 11:59] “Yeah, this is not a state of mind I would like to have, it’s not, it’s not pleasant, and it’s not, not eh, it’s not good for anyone. It’s kind of a lose lose situation”

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What’s surprising for me to hear in this conversation is when Daniel is saying that there’s been a willingness to connect and talk with me from last autumn, when I myself from the moment I suggested we would talk about EMC [after exchanging 20-30 sms’ when starting to talk again] experienced the behavior I role-played with Chris. Daniel is explaining this with the statement below [not talking about the whole period, but only the last three months of silence before contacting me again]

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[Daniel 19:30] “Ah, if you mean, if you mean, by the three months that I prioritized on my school, I don’t count it as, well, technically, technically the blocking, deciding just by myself to discontinue the conversation, yeah, that’s the same. Ehm, it’s just personally not the same for me, maybe because of, eh yeah, because that was because of school and not because of not wanting to talk to you anymore. That’s why I contacted you on my own after I finished school. So, for me, I see it for myself, I see that completely different from the earlier thing, but I understand how you, I understand how you, how you recognize the same strategy in blocking, like, meaning, unilaterally deciding about when a conversation ends or starts”

The sun and the earth with its magnetic fields. Trying to get a perspective on things.

After 5 days of talking there’s an agreement. It will start with a skype conversation in December, and continue from then on as is, or with possible adjustments after evaluating how it’s working out for us:

Conflict handling process between Milla and Daniel

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we are going to have skype conversations

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Daniel will notify Milla by SMS about the possible times for talks in advance (meaning at least 5 days)

Daniel will send an SMS monthly to inform Milla if he cannot find a computer

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the talking time will be shared equally: Milla talks, Daniel listens, then Daniel talks and Milla listens

the person listening is given space to reflect on what they hear the other person say throughout the talk

we try to stay away from expressing own opinions and ideas while reflecting (meaning not starting to give advice or state what is right or wrong about what is said)

the focus and the space is for the person talking

the reflection is there to check whether there is an understanding and it is up to the person talking to decide if they feel heard or not

after the talks there is feedback time for both to express how the talk felt like

the length of the talk is 90 minutes comprising of 2 rounds each 25 minutes with 20 minutes of feedback time following them

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if someone is triggered during the interaction, this person can choose to end the talk and postpone it or ask for time-out

postponed talks will be continued at the following occasion

if there is a time-out, the suggested time is 10 minutes, but it’s up to the person who asked for it, to decide how long the break will be

after the time-out the person who asked for it, suggests who will be heard first, if we can´t agree on who comes first, then we decide randomly (for instance by flipping a coin)

[10:53:28]For how long are you staying? Do you know how to set up audio-recording?

[10:54:45] If u have a mic sure. Maybe a few days max a week.

[11:00:05] Could you get help/arrange setting up audio? I have a camera and could ask someone to hold it and record 10 minutes at a time. I don’t know how to set up audio on short notice.

[11:01:00] Sure

[11:03:50] Checking that i understood what you said: you will arrange all the technical stuff needed to make a recording? And show how to upload it on the internet?

[11:04:37] Aha

[11:20:47] Are u okay meeting up at my place? I would like to do something normal first, like cook together, to feel more calm and not have this antagonistic ‘judge and jury’ feel to it. How does that sound to you?

[11:23:28] Yes i was thinking similar things. Maybe a walk in the park or something like this could work too.

[11:36:32] Ok. So we agree on getting used to one another before talking about the heavy stuff. I’ll let you know tomorrow what day and time would work for me.

[13:36:19] To be clear: I dont have a mic, just a headset that works off and on. So you need to fix a mic yourself.

I’m low on energy. Low on motivation. Low on love. Yesterday I had a short and upsetting talk with a man. This person kept asking me about my relations and when I last ‘got laid’. It reminded me of the trap I’m stuck in and can’t get out of. In the minds and hearts of many I’m first and foremost valued as fuckable flesh. I cried last night.

Today I woke up to yet another empty day in my pampered existence as an unemployed with government benefits, something that Daniel holds against me, and has said, that my unawareness of my privileges has been the reason for breaking off contact with me. That and fits of rage. Angry words. Possibly drunkenness as well. Daniel has also made pretty clear hints that I’ve gone over her borders sexually – the person that was told this, told me that I had raped Daniel.

I want to understand all that. I want to understand how our realities differ so much. I want to understand why I have so much pain in relation to this. I tried for 2-3 years to talk with Daniel about my experiences with her. There’s been a promise to talk about EMC with me. We started, and it was frustrating and not really clear or connecting. I’m so longing to be understood, and i also want to understand. Daniel stopped the talk for three months without saying anything about continuing it. Today I got an sms:

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[12:36:18] Hei! Have not talked in a long time. How are u doing? Still feel like talking to me? Daniel

[13:21:25] I’m unbalanced, and guessing it will be difficult for me to remain at peace interacting with you. I still want to understand what happened. What is your motivation for having a talk with me? Why now, after 3 months of silence?

[13:24:42] You are a human being and deserve dignity. Im done with my busy period so i wanted to pick up where we left off. Im in Tampere

[14:34:10] I didn’t understand your reply. Would you be okay coming to Helsinki for a face to face talk, recorded on video?

[13:36:36]Is audio ok?

[13:38:10]I would prefer video. Why only audio?

[13:49:13] I dont think i can behave naturally i have to prepare even for activist propaganda vids

[14:03:25] I’m checking i understand you correctly: you are ok coming to helsinki for a face to face talk, and have the audio of that conversation recorded?

[14:09:19] Yes

[14:10:01] When?

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I plummeted into conflicting desires. Pain and helplessness. Wanting to rage, express my anger and hurt freely. I turned to alcohol and ice-cream instead. Really just wanting to disappear and never feel anything again, bawling my eyes out, and at the same time laughing internally at the storm in my half-full-half-empty glass. Experiencing despair: Will my life always be like this? No people around me that I would feel comfortable to turn to for support?

Struggling with myself: Why work on something I don’t believe in? I don’t really believe I will exist in a context of people around me who love me and that I love back. And yet I don’t want to stop – I want to get better at relations. I want to understand why intimate relations don’t work out for me. Speaking with Daniel can help me understand myself better, and if I understand myself better I might be able to open up more easily to other people, not fearing so much to ask for comforting and care instead of silently shakily awaiting for signs of tenderness coming my way. It hurts when Daniel says “You are a human being and deserve dignity” cause dignity is not what I experience when I have no control over when Daniel chooses to engage in conversation or not. I take what I can get, when I can get it. Daniel is the one in charge of when to stop and start. I would like to have something we could both agree on, but I haven’t managed to make myself heard in that.

The talk I had yesterday with this man was a reminder of how easily I can get triggered, and how I really need to find ways to find that inner peace, and as well the strength to stop talking with people, seeing where my limits are, understanding that I don’t have the cool to create understanding. I’m waiting for this realization to sink in in relation to Daniel. To stop trying. I’m so longing for support in this, and I don’t know how to ask for it, or where to turn for safer and more sensitive ways of exploring and sharing. I notice that just a few words can turn me inside out and hurting all over.

Feeling overwhelmed and the loneliness grows so big. I’m hoping to reach some conclusion of whether or not I want to have this conversation. I loved and I love, it was twisted and weird, and it’s painful and vulnerable, and if I can let go of the hurt in being lonely, I might find some strength and nurturing from within. I’m too depressed to deal with this, but I can’t really turn down the opportunity, cause if I do that I might as well give up on living. If i really think that I will never learn to connect with anyone, there’s really nothing there for me. A life of wasteful empty time. Mad games. Never-ending depression.

So I observe how easily i cling to despair, and how unstable my mind is, how emotions and needs overwhelm me, and hope that the work I do on myself today, in accepting whatever is, and appreciating the small changes i’ve managed to make, will eventually lead to more ease in my life and in my way of relating with others.

I’m dealing with depression and mental health problems, my energy-level is low, and my social network is not an active/present one, I’m mostly isolating myself from the world and people, staying indoors in a small room, and I would therefore experience a great relief in you sharing your network with me. What I’m mainly looking for is technical support, so that you and I can continue the talk on EMC. In six months – after one emc-example- we’ve managed to get to the conclusion that you don’t connect with written text. (If you disagree with this conclusion – please let it be known).

I’ve understood that it would be easier for you to have the talk over skype, and that you would be okay with having the talks recorded – I’m looking for someone to help out with the recordings and uploading them somewhere so that I can have access to them.

Would you be okay sharing your network with me?

Milla

The sms to Daniel looked like this: “Are you willing to share your network? Please read the full message here: http://wp.me/pmj9t-XN greetings milla”

[adding that anybody reading this blog post is welcome to help out with technical support — the main idea being: HOW TO RECORD VOICE/VIDEO CHATS? (preferably skype – or some free service that is easily accessible online) and HOW TO UPLOAD THE RECORDINGS AND HOW TO LISTEN TO THEM ON THE INTERNET/ONLINE? — either providing this help long-distance if it’s possible or near where i am (Helsinki, Finland) or near where Daniel is (apparently Budapest, Hungary and other places).]