If I had the power to snapy fingers and have all Muslims vanish from the earth. Yes I would and I would sleep well at night. And no I do not believe this would solve all the worlds problems, just 80 to 90 percent of them.

For all of those who thought if you kill the head, the body dies...well, welcome to the real world. Killing OBL and most of the Al Qaeda leadership has done nothing to stop the spread of terror. In fact, the terror organizations have become just that--organizations. They mimic the big business entities that have raped natural resources and plundered weath in the Middle East.

Additionally, the global corporate giants and their biatch militaries have shiat on so many people in so many countries, we're never going to put out the flames. Just enjoy watching the fires burn.

Everyone's aware that most of the victims in these "Muslim" attacks are Muslims, right? This isn't about Islam; it's about a very particular sect of Islam exported by those fundamentalist Salafist shiatheads in Saudi Arabia, and polished to a high crazy in Pakistan. We should be funding the building of Sufi madrassas, and freezing Wahabbi assets.

uber humper:I was told that Israel was the root of the Muslims' anger.

Nay, nay, everyone has problems with Muslims

AfricansRussiansChineseThaiFilipinos. Hell, the Philippians gave the Muslims a special administrative district to run and they are STILL shooting/blowing up people. There is no bargaining with them.

/it is only 1% or so that's bad, but that's still a lot. They need to clean their own house if they don't want to be persecuted the actions of someone else.

It's way more than 1%. Pew Research put out a poll showing that about half of all Muslims worldwide think terrorism is morally acceptable to spread Islam. Yeah, maybe only 1% are actively fighting, but the fact that they can rely on moral support from their communities is what makes it 1% instead of 0.1%. For this reason, the Muslims who glorify and respect jihadist are complicit with their crimes.

mbillips:Everyone's aware that most of the victims in these "Muslim" attacks are Muslims, right? This isn't about Islam; it's about a very particular sect of Islam exported by those fundamentalist Salafist shiatheads in Saudi Arabia, and polished to a high crazy in Pakistan. We should be funding the building of Sufi madrassas, and freezing Wahabbi assets.

This.

The Saudi royal family has been buying off the Wahabbists for 60 by plowing oil money into schools all over the place. We should have seen this coming 30 years ago, and then really done something about it when we saved Fahd's ass in 1991-1992.

TheShavingofOccam123:For all of those who thought if you kill the head, the body dies...well, welcome to the real world. Killing OBL and most of the Al Qaeda leadership has done nothing to stop the spread of terror. In fact, the terror organizations have become just that--organizations. They mimic the big business entities that have raped natural resources and plundered weath in the Middle East.

Additionally, the global corporate giants and their biatch militaries have shiat on so many people in so many countries, we're never going to put out the flames. Just enjoy watching the fires burn.

These local organizations have very little to do with Al Qaeda, other than sharing some of the same Salafist Takfiri philosophy. Nigeria has a homegrown radical extremist problem; these aren't foreign fighters directed from Pakistan. Ditto Kenya; those guys were from next door in Somalia, and their beef has nothing to do with global corporatism; it's personal because Kenya occupied Somalia to reestablish government there.

Europe and North America went through a similar spasm of violence in the 1970s. led (as in the current case) by young "intellectuals" who had latched onto a utopian philosophy (Communism back then, radical Islam now) that they think can be implemented by violent revolution. They don't have to conspire across national borders; they just subscribe to the same reading list.

ox45tallboy:mbillips: Europe and North America went through a similar spasm of violence in the 1970s. led (as in the current case) by young "intellectuals" who had latched onto a utopian philosophy (Communism back then, radical Islam now) that they think can be implemented by violent revolution. They don't have to conspire across national borders; they just subscribe to the same reading list.

Except for it's not "radical Islam" we have to worry about here; we have "citizens militia" groups here in the US trying to instill their paranoid fantasies of everyone wearing a gun and killing anyone who isn't of their particular weird interpretation of Christianity. Radio and TV shysters and charlatans are trying to get people to create their own microcosm society of like-minded individuals and demand the right to walk around everywhere brandishing a firearm.

Blaming crazy attacks on a person's religion is silly. Here in the US, most all of the recent mass shootings have been carried out by Christians, simply because statistically speaking, most people in the US were taken to Christian churches when they were kids. Crazy sometimes overrides the teachings common to all religions of "be good to one another".

While there is no doubt that most all who carry out attacks such as suicide bombings are motivated to give up their lives based on a promise of reward in the afterlife, the people who recruit these individuals and plan and finance these attacks are simply not motivated by religion. They don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we're over in their part of the world telling them how to run things, and bribing and cajoling to get things to work out for our advantage to the detriment of the people whose forefathers fought and died for that land.

You want to stop "Islamic terrorism"? Stop farking with countries where Islam is the predominant religion. There is no doubt in my mind that if the US and US-based corporations behaved in this same way to Buddhist countries, a fring ...

They're not attacking Western corporate interests. They're attacking MUSLIMS in order to attempt to subjugate them under the rule of a particularly screwy brand of Islam, as the Taliban did in Afghanistan. The western world certainly good do more to help, but this is a local fight between two philosophies: the first believes that the post-colonial Muslim world should follow the example of India, and become modern, multicultural societies, and the second believes that these countries should return to a fundamentalist sectarian Caliphate as they were in 750 AD. Western companies are HUGELY invested in places like China and India, and yet there are no worldwide insurgencies coming from those locales.

AngryDragon:Eddie Adams from Torrance: Mrbogey: Apparently the idea that the world is round is a western plot to weaken Islam. Also the water cycle is un-Islamic. Rain comes from Allah not condensation!

Those Muslims believe some weird-ass shiat.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to be at church in 26 minutes so I can literally consume the body and blood of Christ.

Not many mall or school attacks by Catholics, in platoon strength with hundreds of casualties, because the heathen Lutherans have a different view on communion nowadays.

mbillips:Europe and North America went through a similar spasm of violence in the 1970s. led (as in the current case) by young "intellectuals" who had latched onto a utopian philosophy (Communism back then, radical Islam now) that they think can be implemented by violent revolution. They don't have to conspire across national borders; they just subscribe to the same reading list.

Except for it's not "radical Islam" we have to worry about here; we have "citizens militia" groups here in the US trying to instill their paranoid fantasies of everyone wearing a gun and killing anyone who isn't of their particular weird interpretation of Christianity. Radio and TV shysters and charlatans are trying to get people to create their own microcosm society of like-minded individuals and demand the right to walk around everywhere brandishing a firearm.

Blaming crazy attacks on a person's religion is silly. Here in the US, most all of the recent mass shootings have been carried out by Christians, simply because statistically speaking, most people in the US were taken to Christian churches when they were kids. Crazy sometimes overrides the teachings common to all religions of "be good to one another".

While there is no doubt that most all who carry out attacks such as suicide bombings are motivated to give up their lives based on a promise of reward in the afterlife, the people who recruit these individuals and plan and finance these attacks are simply not motivated by religion. They don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we're over in their part of the world telling them how to run things, and bribing and cajoling to get things to work out for our advantage to the detriment of the people whose forefathers fought and died for that land.

You want to stop "Islamic terrorism"? Stop farking with countries where Islam is the predominant religion. There is no doubt in my mind that if the US and US-based corporations behaved in this same way to Buddhist countries, a fringe Buddhist element would arise and some Buddhist religious leaders would begin promising things in the afterlife for those who gave their lives in the holy war against the infidels.

Blaming Islam every time there is an attack by crazy people is as silly as blaming Christianity for Eric Rudolph, who claimed he was carrying out God's work. Try this on for size: "If we banned Christianity, fringe lunatics like Eric Rudolph would not be murdering innocent people in the name of God. Christianity is clearly the problem here, as its teachings justify the deadly use of force to protect the innocent unborn children from those who carry out and support abortion."

"In a 2009 BBC interview, Mohammed Yusuf, then leader of the group, stated his belief that the concept of a spherical Earth is contrary to Islamic teaching and should be rejected, along with Darwinian evolution and the concept of rain originating from water evaporated by the sun."

What a f*cking nut bar. He comes across like someone that fit right in with the Westboro Baptists.I say we (the rest of the world) should have our own Jihad, round up all these crazy asshole and drop them in a deep pit and cover it over with dirt and then salt the earth.

Mrbogey:Sock Ruh Tease: The group called "Learning is Forbidden" attacked a college? Wow, how original.

Actually, it's not that simple. Boko apparently means "non-Islamic knowledge". Pretty much anything derived or generated by non-traditional Islamic groups is sinful. Apparently the idea that the world is round is a western plot to weaken Islam. Also the water cycle is un-Islamic. Rain comes from Allah not condensation!

Brick-House:If I had the power to snapy fingers and have all Muslims vanish from the earth. Yes I would and I would sleep well at night. And no I do not believe this would solve all the worlds problems, just 80 to 90 percent of them.

We could solve another 15% by euthanizing all those people that categorize based on religious stereotype.

Sock Ruh Tease:The group called "Learning is Forbidden" attacked a college? Wow, how original.

Actually, it's not that simple. Boko apparently means "non-Islamic knowledge". Pretty much anything derived or generated by non-traditional Islamic groups is sinful. Apparently the idea that the world is round is a western plot to weaken Islam. Also the water cycle is un-Islamic. Rain comes from Allah not condensation!

Mrbogey:A group of Muslims who do something and say they did it because of Islam can't be taken at their word? These aren't non-muslims saying they did this due to religion. This is what they're saying. Nobody's saying Eric Rudolph did what he did free of religion. It's acknowledged he's a religious assailant. The assertion made was that mass shootings in America are because of Christianity

Actually, no. My assertion was that most mass shooters in the United States were Christian. My other related assertion was that their religion had about as much to do with their horrible actions as the religion of people from the Middle East who finance and plan acts of terror - in other words, not much.

I followed this with the corollary that religion should not always be automatically assigned as the motivation for an atrocity when the perpetrator is one religion (Muslim) but not another (Christian). If we wish to assign blame based on religion, we should do it across the board, or we could wait for the facts to come in and realize that there is more to this "Muslims are terrorists" thing than what meets the eye.

Mrbogey:Again, you fall back to arguing that we can't take their word for why they commit these attacks.

Most all of those committing the worst atrocities are dead. What word?

If you mean the "mission statements" or whatever put out by the organization that trained them and plotted and financed the attack, then yes, I agree, you cannot take them at their word. They are in the business of recruiting more people for these attacks, not carrying them out themselves. If they really felt blowing yourself up and killing civilians was the highest duty you could do for your god, then they would be doing it themselves instead of trying to get other people to do it for them.

Mrbogey:They're both equally inaccurate. They hate us for our heresy would be more accurate.

No. No, no, no.

While some may "hate us for our heresy", do you really think someone who just wants to live their life, even to the glory of their god, is going to go commit suicide and kill other people just because they think the other people worship a false god? The usual profile for a suicide bomber is someone who has lost someone close to them (spouse, family member) through acts of war by the other side. It is not some person who has a stable home or family life, absent some kind of mental illness. They NEED some other reason to hate, to see the other side as devils, or they need to be mentally ill.

I repeat my assertion that they hate us for our actions, not for our beliefs.

China is a nuclear power and is the second largest economy in the world. They sell us cheap, lead-painted crap and we keep coming back for more. They trade openly with Iran, who is under UN sanctions due to their attempts at development of nuclear bombs.They fark with their currency exchange rates to keep up trade imbalances, and no one wants to do anything about it.

Hopefully someone already said this but, this is AFRICA people. Nations across the globe ship weapons to every militia and splinter group that exists on the continent. Arguing either side of gun control in regards to this tragedy and trying to tie it back to the debate in America is beyond retarded. Please, stop it.

Also, to the person above who said you don't see Catholics doing this, do a quick Google search on the Army of God and their mission to spread Catholicism throughout Uganda via murder. Let's just admit that Islam/any religion is just an excuse for violent, genocidal people to get their violent, genocidal tendencies out.

uttertosh:USP .45: sheep snorter: in 'Murica, the rightwing governments just replace factual teachings with creationism and herpaderp. It helps to keep people stupid in order to create new cannon fodder for idiotic wars for oil and religious supremacy.

One of the dumbest thing I've read all year. It's so wrong, that to understand how wrong it is, I had to go back and think about what other untruths you must believe, and the total lack of critical thinking that helped you arrive there. It would take an essay just to address how truly stupid just your first sentence is.

Fine, granted.

But, address the second sentence (my emphasis in bold) and you find that it's the basis of all western politics, regardless of which side. (prove me wrong - in less than an essay, plz)

I think he means that most Americans do understand the concept of evolution, and those who believe in young-earth creationism are in a (albeit very vocal) minority. Evolution is taught in our schools. We fund science research to discover more about the world around us. I believe this wave of religious conservatism is an aberration that will soon rectify itself when the Republican Party purges itself of the Tea Party.

But I do agree that religion has been used throughout recorded history to justify completely illogical actions (dying in a war, or worse, killing other people, especially the innocent) that further the goals of those in power.

Don't have the license/training? Anything beyond simple hunting rifles for rural residents are subject to confiscation, yes. If you screw up with even them then you get a court ordered ban from owning even those. That's how it's done in Canuckerland and most of the thug life gun crimes that happen up there are done with guns smuggled in from the US.

Even though this thread has moved on I was trying post the following but kept getting the hairy armed drunk server guy page:

I'm actually not stating my case very well today (other stuff on my mind) so I won't attempt trying to remember the details of my plan but it had quite a few of the REASONABLE gun dudes agreeing with me. Nutbags can't even agree with each other so they don't matter.

Now in regards to the Hitler comment... Hitler may have disarmed the Jews but he DIDN'T DISARM HIMSELF!!

I was saying giving a modern day Hitler an AK might be a bad idea... yanno... because he might use it to disarm others and kill the f*ck out of them... because he was fookin' cray cray.

But we're all used to gun noodlers not making any bleeding sense whatsoever so I guess it should have been expected.

uber humper:dr_blasto: Meh. I'll disagree. It was just another method to isolate a specific group of people, one of many methods employed at the time. Gun control for the sake of controlling the proliferation of firearms inside their borders was not in any way part of the deal. Using it as a "OMG Hitler was pro- gun control" as some sort of anti- gun control or attempt to paint the opposition in a bad light is historically inaccurate and disingenuous at best.

There are plenty of legitimate arguments to use. Stick to those.

it was a snarky comment in a slashy. Get your panties out of a wad.

I'm hung over and cranky. Those panties will remain in a wad until I feel better.

uber humper:dr_blasto: uber humper: dr_blasto: uber humper: Funny that Hitler was all for gun control

Dude, nobody would argue that Hitler was all about hating on the Jews-ensuring they were disarmed was part of the process for making them lesser citizens or, rather, not even citizens.

Hitler undid the earlier gun controls over non-Jewish Germans. He was not all for gun control and probably gave zero farks about it.

That's gun control. It's necessary to subjugate a population. Probably the first step.

Meh. I'll disagree. It was just another method to isolate a specific group of people, one of many methods employed at the time. Gun control for the sake of controlling the proliferation of firearms inside their borders was not in any way part of the deal. Using it as a "OMG Hitler was pro- gun control" as some sort of anti- gun control or attempt to paint the opposition in a bad light is historically inaccurate and disingenuous at best.

I had a plan all put together for another thread a while back that I won't bother typing up but it avoids the whole registration issue. Basically you want to own guns go to get certified (training) and a background check then you are issued a card. Now you can buy all the guns you want. It must be renewed every two years or so by completing a simple form just to make sure you haven't been knocking off liquor stores or ended up in the RICO system. There is kind of a registration "scheme" but it is voluntary (kind of) but it'll take too long to describe but it really does go above and beyond to protect the identity of truly responsible gun owners and is more to protect them than anything

As ex-military I'm sure you understand the importance and value of proper training going a LOOOONG way to make sure people don't f*ck around with their weapons. It would have to be instituted at a federal level though so every state has the same laws and procedures.

Mrbogey:These people hate us because we're over there telling them how to read and write. How to plant their crops. How to avoid dying at the age of 15 due to hygiene deficiencies.

How to use bigger and better guns to kill each other. And hey, here's some guns for you to use! And here's some chemical weapons!

Here's a brief rundown on the history of the mujahideen in Afghanistan, and the support provided to them by Americans. After Russia left, we stopped providing support, and then there was nothing but a war-torn country used for a proxy war between the US and the Soviets. Out of these ashes rose a deep hatred for the Americans who had fought their war on Afghani land and using Afghani troops. They chose a new name for themselves - the Taliban.

(I realize this is an oversimplification, but it's far more accurate than "they hate us for our freedoms")

The US does lots of good in the world. A LOT of good. We help tons of people in all kinds of different countries with food and disease prevention. But we also do a lot of things we should be ashamed of. The way we treated Afghanistan in the 1980's is one of these things, and I firmly believe that the most accurate statement ever uttered about 9/11 was made by Obama's former pastor Jeremiah Wright - "America's chickens were comin' home to roost". (Not to say I agree with other crap he said, but that one statement was absolutely true).

Mrbogey:It's a good thing England never had any invasions and colonization of Buddhist countries. None of them have been Westernized.

Hmmm, and none of the non-Muslim countries ever had an armed uprising against them, involving terroristic attacks against civilians, did they? Oh wait...

With a basis in § 31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1928 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and § 9 of the Fuhrer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1928 (Reichsgesetzblatt 1, p. 1331 ) are the following ordered:

§ 1

Jews (§ 5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt 1, p. 1332) are prohibited from acquiring. Possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

§ 2

Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

§ 3

The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in § 1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.

§ 4

Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of § 1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

§ 5

For the implementation if this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

§ 6

This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Interesting made up word. I'm not 100% on your point, but if I had to guess, it's that you are unfamiliar with the literal definition of casualty. This is not uncommon.

"In civilian usage the word "casualty" is properly used for a person who is killed, wounded or injured by some event, and is usually used to describe multiple deaths and injuries due to violent incidents or disasters. Casualties is sometimes loosely used or (mis)understood to mean fatalities, but non-fatal injuries are also casualties. "

- Wikipedia

As I casually read this, from my couch, I seriously decided to get up and walk to my kitchen.

IronTom:here to help: You know what all these shootings have in common? The shooters had guns.

unfavorited

lol... you didn't know I was for (reasonable) gun control? I ain't sayin' totally disarm the population. I'm against that. I just don't feel comfortable with the idea any psychopath can snag a weapon capable of wiping out a room of people in seconds without anyone even bothering to make sure he isn't the next Hitler.

AngryDragon:I mean if that was the case, maybe some attention would be paid to mental health, drugs, poverty, and education.

Never mind, gun control is easier.

Ignoring the fact that the ACA is a start to getting people access to treatment to mental health and addiction issues and not completely wipe out their finances by doing so which would allow people to save for things like college for their kids as well as save the country money in the long run which could be reinvested into education and crime reduction strategies.

And that's just ONE policy. Of course if our friends in the GOP had their way none of it would happen and Obamster and his crew have had to spend an inordinate amount of time simply trying to get it through the door that they even can't get close to focusing on other issues that could help reduce poverty and street crime.

ox45tallboy:Here in the US, most all of the recent mass shootings have been carried out by Christians

[citation needed]

ox45tallboy:They don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we're over in their part of the world telling them how to run things, and bribing and cajoling to get things to work out for our advantage to the detriment of the people whose forefathers fought and died for that land.

These people hate us because we're over there telling them how to read and write. How to plant their crops. How to avoid dying at the age of 15 due to hygiene deficiencies.

ox45tallboy:There is no doubt in my mind that if the US and US-based corporations behaved in this same way to Buddhist countries, a fringe Buddhist element would arise and some Buddhist religious leaders would begin promising things in the afterlife for those who gave their lives in the holy war against the infidels.

It's a good thing England never had any invasions and colonization of Buddhist countries. None of them have been Westernized.

BolshyGreatYarblocks:Pants full of macaroni!!: davin: Brick-House: If I had the power to snapy fingers and have all Muslims vanish from the earth. Yes I would and I would sleep well at night. And no I do not believe this would solve all the worlds problems, just 80 to 90 percent of them.

We could solve another 15% by euthanizing all those people that categorize based on religious stereotype.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x240]

"It's the way these yellow Muslim devils think. It's burned into their brains. 'Kill Americans infidels. Kill, kill.' They don't respect human life the way we do. I'd like to take 'em out and shoot 'em."

[weaponsandwarfare.com image 400x500]

"The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as the Westerner."

-- Gen. William Westmoreland

Fun fact: Cadet Westmoreland's mess hall task at West Point was to make sure that no African-American cadets ate there.

I'm not sure I can fault the subjective perspective against "the Oriental" coming from a soldier who served during such brutal events as the Rape of Nanking, The Bataan Death March, and the assault on Iwo Jima. I don't agree with it, but I can see where it might have come from.

Gee, islamic militants killing innocent people to spread the love and teachings of Allah. That is sure to get people on your side and convert. Murder their children, that's sure to make people come to your cause. Assholes.

Pants full of macaroni!!:davin: Brick-House: If I had the power to snapy fingers and have all Muslims vanish from the earth. Yes I would and I would sleep well at night. And no I do not believe this would solve all the worlds problems, just 80 to 90 percent of them.

We could solve another 15% by euthanizing all those people that categorize based on religious stereotype.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x240]

"It's the way these yellow Muslim devils think. It's burned into their brains. 'Kill Americans infidels. Kill, kill.' They don't respect human life the way we do. I'd like to take 'em out and shoot 'em."

"The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as the Westerner."

-- Gen. William Westmoreland

Fun fact: Cadet Westmoreland's mess hall task at West Point was to make sure that no African-American cadets ate there.

davin:Brick-House: If I had the power to snapy fingers and have all Muslims vanish from the earth. Yes I would and I would sleep well at night. And no I do not believe this would solve all the worlds problems, just 80 to 90 percent of them.

We could solve another 15% by euthanizing all those people that categorize based on religious stereotype.

"It's the way these yellow Muslim devils think. It's burned into their brains. 'Kill Americans infidels. Kill, kill.' They don't respect human life the way we do. I'd like to take 'em out and shoot 'em."

Mad Tea Party:Mrbogey: Sock Ruh Tease: The group called "Learning is Forbidden" attacked a college? Wow, how original.

Actually, it's not that simple. Boko apparently means "non-Islamic knowledge". Pretty much anything derived or generated by non-traditional Islamic groups is sinful. Apparently the idea that the world is round is a western plot to weaken Islam. Also the water cycle is un-Islamic. Rain comes from Allah not condensation!