If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

I'm going to add this to my list of things never to write about. Abortion, Nascar, Politics, and now Derek Jeter. Would people's opinions be different about Jeter had he been picked by the Reds at number 5 instead of the Yankees. Jeter is overrated because all the talking heads have soooo much man love for him. It would have been nice to see him in a Reds uniform instead of Chad Mottola.

This was an excellent post RB. I was reading through the thread and couldn't believe how many people were quick to write Jeter off as just average. Larkin played for 18 years. In that time, he failed to reach 2,500 hits. Jeter could very well end up with 3,000 hits with a .315 average. I realize that average isn't a very telling stat in the game, but I know this much: a player with 3,000 hits, and a .300 plus average is without a doubt in the conversation as a first ballot HOFer - no matter who he played for.
I think people's perceptions of Jeter aren't biased in two ways. First, he is a Yankee, and Yankees are generally hated (as a Yankees fan I'd know). Second, there seems to be a degree of jealousy towards the attention Jeter has received. In a sense, Larkin should have had the same attention, but never did (as a Reds fan I'd know). In the early part of his career, he was overshadowed by Ozzie Smith. Towards the end of his career, he was overshadowed by guys like Arod, Jeter, and Garciaparra. I would rank Larkin as one of the best shortstops ever. Unfortunately, that perception doesn't resonate outside of Cincinnati as much as it should. I don't think that's Jeter's fault. If you look at this objectively, you'll see two amazing shortstops. At the end of the day, these guys are both players any team would be happy to have for years. Just because you love one doesn't mean you can't respect the other.

Someone noted that Jeter has never had to carry a lineup. This was my response:

Look at the WS team from 1998. Are Bernie Williams and Paul O'Neill HOF players? No one hit above 28 homeruns on that team. The names on that roster aren't exactly giants protecting Jeter. Also, look at his stats from the 2000 WS. His OBP was .480, his SLG was .864. I would call that carrying a lineup. If you need regular season, have a look at '99.

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

Originally Posted by kbrake

I really like the Jeter one, I have a friend and for quite sometime we have been in a never ending debate of Barry Larkin vs. Derek Jeter any takes on that?

In the winter I did a Barry Larkin vs. every other great shortstop comparison, including Derek Jeter, in an effort to gauge where Larkin ranks among the game's greatest shortstops and how he should/may get treated by the BBWAA writers when his name shows up on Hall ballots.

IMO, Larkin is historically one of the most underrated players ever. Interestingly enough, another great shortstop, Arky Vaughan, is also one of the most underrated players ever.

As far as current overrated and underrated ... Brian Giles is way up there, and he's already been mentioned. Bobby Abreu is another guy that's highly underrated. Since Jeter's already been mentioned as an overrated candidate, I'll toss up Darin Erstad. He's had one great season, two decent seasons and six well below average seasons, including each of his last five seasons.

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

You use his weakness of range as an example, but I rarely hear people refer to Jeter as a great defensive shortstop

He won the last two gold gloves in the AL. That is one MAJOR reason why I say he is over rated, bc I don't feel he is that good of a fielder, like you even stated.

often find myself pointing out that his range to his left is decent and he tracks flyballs like almost nobody else.

His range to his left is much worse than his right (according to the bible), but they do say he tracks fly balls very well "which provides ammunition for the talk of Jeter moving to CF" (Baseball America)

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

Most Underrated: Good call on Michael Young, but I'm going to go with another Ranger, Kevin Mench. He's a poor man's Manny Ramirez, except he plays in a lesser-profile media market and he doesn't spazz out as much as Manny does.

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

Most Underrated: Good call on Michael Young, but I'm going to go with another Ranger, Kevin Mench. He's a poor man's Manny Ramirez, except he plays in a lesser-profile media market and he doesn't spazz out as much as Manny does.

Kevin Mench, career OPS-.828
Manny Ramirez, career OPS-1.006
Not really all that similar to me, plus he has a bigger head. Probably a better fielder, though, but who isn't?

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

Derek Jeter is so overrated, he's actually *underrated* - if that makes any sense. He's a .315 career hitter, has close to 200 home runs, over 200 stolen bases, a good glove at short, and his baseball smarts are top-notch. When the talking heads like John Kruk call him the best player in the game -> overrated. When your typical baseball fan insists he's not much better than David Eckstein -> underrated. Regardless - I hate him.

Most overrated = Kerry Wood (the only thing he and Nolan Ryan have in common is that they're both from Texas)

Most underrated = David Wells (his fatness overshadows a .615 career winning %, 9 seasons of 15+ wins, a respectable 4.00 career era, and 227 career wins - about 30 more than Pedro)

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

I love to slam Jeter but he is not the most overrated. Most overpaid? Probably. Most overrated defensively? Without question. But he is a very consistent and productive offensive player. While I believe he is overrated as a superstar he is a legitimate All Star player. I hate to copy someone's answer but Kerry Wood is easliy more overrated than Jeter. I'm sure I could pick out 10-15 more if I had a list in front of me.

Underrated: How about Travis Hafner? This guy is an absolute stud but doesn't get the hype of some of the other great sluggers.

Re: Most Overrated/Underrated MLB Players

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

I'm going to add this to my list of things never to write about. Abortion, Nascar, Politics, and now Derek Jeter. Would people's opinions be different about Jeter had he been picked by the Reds at number 5 instead of the Yankees. Jeter is overrated because all the talking heads have soooo much man love for him. It would have been nice to see him in a Reds uniform instead of Chad Mottola.

Jeter isn't even the best SS on his team right now...

Much of Jeter's early success was largely due to the fact of the players around him. In his defense, he's produced recently, but he's never been in a bad lineup, so I contend that the majority of his career has been due to his teammates.

Had Jeter played for the Reds, I don't think he would have turned out to be a media sensation for 2 reasons. 1, Cincinnati is about 100 media markets lower than NYC. 2, Cincinnati until 2005 and this year hasn't had a good offensively lineup. Jeter would have struggled in the Queen City.

Surprisingly, I feel that Jeter and Felipe Lopez are strikingly similar players b/c they both suffer defensively, and their offensive success is largely due to their teammates. Lopez is the product of the Reds' lineup, just like Jeter was/is the product of a Steinbrenner bought lineup.

Derek Jeter IS the most overrated player in baseball right now. It's good to see that Jeter can pick up where Joe DiMaggio left off as one of the most overrated players in the history of baseball

As for underrated, I gotta give the nod to Morgan Ensberg, although he's borderline for that right now b/c he's starting to get some respect and recognition. If I'm going to go with a true underrated, I'm going with Aaron Rowand.

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most
importantly, enjoy yourselves!

RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball