The new FF film appears to be in trouble. If the mods have a problem with the link and story being up together, feel free to drop one. I know there is a rule about it, but I forgot which one should or should not be posted.

As principal photography on 20th Century Fox's FANTASTIC FOUR winds down, we've been hearing stories about a last-minute change of plans that happened with the film -- and it's all due to another superhero movie called THE INCREDIBLES.

Two sources have now independently told us that the entire third act of FANTASTIC FOUR has undergone extensive changes as a result of Disney and Pixar's CGI family film THE INCREDIBLES. As it happens, we're told that once the creative FF team saw the stretching effects of the INCREDIBLES character Elastigirl, the final battle we're yet to see in FANTASTIC FOUR needed to be beefed up, especially what the character of Mister Fantastic was slated to do.

Here's what we're told: already burdened with a nine figure budget, and with five main characters all gifted with their own special powers (and thus their own expensive slate of special effects required to bring them to life), one of the ways to reduce the FANTASTIC FOUR expenses was to limit the time that Mister Fantastic would use his stretching abilities on the screen. However, once THE INCREDIBLES blasted on the scene, and audiences got a taste of what kind of things a human Mom could do with her super-stretching powers, the makers of FANTASTIC FOUR soon realized that they would have to push the envelope further. But how could they do that when the budget for FF was already well past $100 million dollars?

The answer turned out to be quite simple: 20th Century Fox stepped up to the plate and coughed up more dough. How much more is a matter of conjecture...but we've heard a check as big as $20 M may have been written by Fox just so FANTASTIC FOUR's Mister Fantastic could have more screen time to stretch across. Before you begin believinbg that FANTASTIC FOUR will be the mother of all stretching movies, that $20 M may not all go to just making Reed Richards stretch further than he was originally intended to do in the first place. After all, there's also the Human Torch, Invisible Woman, the Thing and Doctor Doom too...

It also turns out, in this post-INCREDIBLES landscape, that the third act of FANTASTIC FOUR had to undergo a major rewrite. We've heard stories of the writers and producers working overtime all through November and December as they thought about ways to ratchet up the film's final battles and the resolution. This has supposedly made for some frought moments as the script changed, almost daily -- and word has it, the changes made were to distance the FANTASTIC FOUR ending from that of THE INCREDIBLES.

Don't think just yet that all of this creative strife means the end result will be lacking; even while filming many productions undergo major changes to their storylines, sometimes requiring delays in filming as the script undergoes revisions. Entire sequences may be axed for any number of reasons while brand new scenes may be born as a result of adversity -- and if the film stands on its own, audiences will never know how many nights of sleep the cast, crew, director and producers lost. All final judgements on the merits of FANTASTIC FOUR will have to wait until opening day arrives.

It could be worse they could go with the original idea plan for the movie which was Leave it be Beaver starring Johnny Storm and his evil next door neighbor Dr. Doom. I kid you not.

While Herbie really sucked ass it had very little to do with dumb ass kids setting themselves on fire. The Human Torch was on Spider Man and his Amazing Friends and they didn't want HT on 2 shows at once. Because after all the Mavel Universe was just so razor focused and had no plot holes in 80's t.v. after all.

Originally posted by DahakThe Human Torch was on Spider Man and his Amazing Friends and they didn't want HT on 2 shows at once.

Actually, "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" was on NBC in the early 80s - and I don't recall the NYC network affiliates actively showing Fantastic Four cartoons around that time. Also, the Human Torch was not a regular cast member of that version of "Spider-Man" - just Spidey, Angelica a/k/a Firestar, Bobby Drake a/k/a Iceman, Angelica's dog Ms. Lion, and Aunt May are the only regular cast members I recall.

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The last I heard was that Marvel was trying to enter some sort of DEAL with Pixar so they could collaborate, no lawsuits involved.

And why would this article have anything to do with Marvel suing PIXAR. The impression I got from the article is that Fox/Marvel saw how they were being outdone by The Incredibles which had some great action sequences and climaxes, so they are basically trying to up the ante for what probably would've been a ho-hum finale in the Fantastic Four movie.

Originally posted by DahakThe Human Torch was on Spider Man and his Amazing Friends and they didn't want HT on 2 shows at once.

Actually, "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" was on NBC in the early 80s - and I don't recall the NYC network affiliates actively showing Fantastic Four cartoons around that time. Also, the Human Torch was not a regular cast member of that version of "Spider-Man" - just Spidey, Angelica a/k/a Firestar, Bobby Drake a/k/a Iceman, Angelica's dog Ms. Lion, and Aunt May are the only regular cast members I recall.

Sorry my memory is foggy about crappy 20 year old cartoons. From what I remember from Scott Tipton who is definitely an expert on comics in general using Herbie the Robot had very little to do with worrying about kids setting themselves on fire. Maybe they didn't want two fire people on at the same time to confuse kids.

Originally posted by DahakThe Human Torch was on Spider Man and his Amazing Friends and they didn't want HT on 2 shows at once.

Actually, "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" was on NBC in the early 80s - and I don't recall the NYC network affiliates actively showing Fantastic Four cartoons around that time. Also, the Human Torch was not a regular cast member of that version of "Spider-Man" - just Spidey, Angelica a/k/a Firestar, Bobby Drake a/k/a Iceman, Angelica's dog Ms. Lion, and Aunt May are the only regular cast members I recall.

Sorry my memory is foggy about crappy 20 year old cartoons. From what I remember from Scott Tipton who is definitely an expert on comics in general using Herbie the Robot had very little to do with worrying about kids setting themselves on fire. Maybe they didn't want two fire people on at the same time to confuse kids.

So if your memory was foggy, why even speak up?

The Human Torch was indeed dropped from the FF cartoon over concerns that children would attempt to light themselves on fire so they could fly like him. Somebody working on or for the show remembered stories of children putting a red towels around their necks and jumping off various things trying to fly like Superman and getting hurt. Of course, this doesn't explain why they weren't worried that children would try to use things to stretch their arms or legs like Mr. Fantastic, or glue rocks to their bodies to be like The Thing or drink invisible ink to be like The Invisible Woman, but they were television execs, what'd you expect?

Herbie was eventually added to the cast of the comic book for a short time as a supporting player.

The trying to light oneself on fire to be like the Torch thing was also turned into a very good story by John Byrne for a Secret Wars II crossover story in FF.

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Originally posted by DahakThe Human Torch was on Spider Man and his Amazing Friends and they didn't want HT on 2 shows at once.

Actually, "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends" was on NBC in the early 80s - and I don't recall the NYC network affiliates actively showing Fantastic Four cartoons around that time. Also, the Human Torch was not a regular cast member of that version of "Spider-Man" - just Spidey, Angelica a/k/a Firestar, Bobby Drake a/k/a Iceman, Angelica's dog Ms. Lion, and Aunt May are the only regular cast members I recall.

Sorry my memory is foggy about crappy 20 year old cartoons. From what I remember from Scott Tipton who is definitely an expert on comics in general using Herbie the Robot had very little to do with worrying about kids setting themselves on fire. Maybe they didn't want two fire people on at the same time to confuse kids.

So if your memory was foggy, why even speak up?

The Human Torch was indeed dropped from the FF cartoon over concerns that children would attempt to light themselves on fire so they could fly like him. Somebody working on or for the show remembered stories of children putting a red towels around their necks and jumping off various things trying to fly like Superman and getting hurt. Of course, this doesn't explain why they weren't worried that children would try to use things to stretch their arms or legs like Mr. Fantastic, or glue rocks to their bodies to be like The Thing or drink invisible ink to be like The Invisible Woman, but they were television execs, what'd you expect?

Herbie was eventually added to the cast of the comic book for a short time as a supporting player.

The trying to light oneself on fire to be like the Torch thing was also turned into a very good story by John Byrne for a Secret Wars II crossover story in FF.

Nope. The Torch's absence was due to a rights issue. "Comics Guru" Mark Evanier has the whole story here (povonline.com)

Hey thanks DA for the link. I read a few years ago that Herbie and had nothing to do with stupid kids lighting themselves on fire. But like the old "who was the first Undertaker and Ultimate Warrior" question some people will stick with that answer no matter that it isn't true.

Thanks for the link about the "real" torch story. The setting on fire thing was only a guess on my part. I also thought maybe the moving flames were too hard to animate for a whole show. Herbie still sucked. They could have brought in another existing Marvel character, but made a robot instead.