Tomas wrote:.-Elizabeth Isabelle-Considering that the American government originally was the public,

-tomas-Define "the public".

In this case, basically I meant people who were not selected as rulers by birthright, but selected from those who were to be ruled. As Hodges said, it wasn't perfectly fair then, and it is not perfectly fair today - but at least it's better than just picking somebody based on who their father is and when the infant was born to this father.

I agree that the idea of "forming a more perfect union" was to keep striving for perfection, using minds rather than letting thoughts wither away in favor of interpreting words on old pieces of paper like this.

Tomas wrote:.-Elizabeth-It started falling apart before there was a them vs us to choose from.

-tomas-So, when did "It" start falling apart?

Probably from inception. Using Buddhist terminology, there have been far more animal births than human births. Applying democracy to a bunch of animals is a long shot at best. We need more humans to make this work.I think that we are getting them (under the labels "Indigo Children" or "Crystal Children") but it's almost too late.

Tomas wrote:Elizabeth started this thread about life in the US, not fawking Israel...

My first sentence was about America, but my second was about Australia. I do recognize that "state" is another word for "country" but it is also a non-tangible place - like "state of affairs."

I did not mean for this thread to be exclusively about America. I meant to point out creeping to rule by the elite in nations that claim a democratic stance. America just happens to have a whole lot of examples of that.

-Elizabeth-Probably from inception. Using Buddhist terminology, there have been far more animal births than human births.

-tomas-I'm not up on Buddhist mythology, clearly more animal birth, but animals need to be whittled down to individual species. Then, the humans will be the ones running the operation. There's an ant species (in South America) that is female only, it reproduces without the need of a male - because there are none. Odd, this year sperm has been "artifically" produced from adult stem cells.

-Elizabeth-Applying democracy to a bunch of animals is a long shot at best. We need more humans to make this work. I think that we are getting them (under the labels "Indigo Children" or "Crystal Children") but it's almost too late.

-tomas-Yes and no, democracy is a false logic. It just doesn't work. Constitutional republic is the only way to go. No more than six citizens (people) will get a local effort moved forward. It's like Tip O'Neil said, "All politics is local." To get anything done, a small cadre of like-minded individuals (like QRS) sway (inculcate) those who truly seek the absolute.

By Buddhist terminology, I meant that just because someone is born of the species homo sapien does not make them truly human. A human is someone who was born with the capacity to become wise. Many people are hardly different from other kinds of animals as their whole waking lives revolve around fornication, feeding, and frenzy. They don't care about the deeper or more complex issues either because they can't understand them or don't care to try.

I see some irony there, in that it is animals who think that they are humans labeling humans as something they consider not quite human. I suspect that you need more definition in order to not consider my comment the mere words of a flake.

Those who are termed "animals" do not suffer greatly, for they do not use their brains enough to suffer. They are experts in submission and in the creation of authorities which they proudly worship. They are like sheep, content to follow, and to be led, rather than to think and take control of their own lives. They are beasts of burden, ruled by the whip of duty and guilt. Or they are like cows contentedly grazing in a field, unaware that the cold steel of the abattoir awaits them. Again, there is some desire, but no burning passion for truth and perfection.

- The Human Realms

A "human birth" is exceedingly rare, numbering perhaps only one in every several thousand people. Such a mind has learned to value reason in earnest, and can therefore be reasoned with! This human mind has room for doubt, and for the knowledge that something new is possible, which is the ground for learning. Humans possess ideals and their accompanying passions, which is in sharp contrast to the passionless, content and unchanging animal people.

Reason dilutes pain, so the suffering of humans is not crushing, and therefore does not keep them from deep and penetrating thought. Reason also dilutes joy, preventing the blissful happiness which would make one content with pleasing illusions.

From Lee Carroll and Jan Tober's The Indigo Children; The New Kids Have Arrived, chapter 1 "What is an Indigo Child?" The list itself is attributed to Doreen Virtue, PhD.

* Has high sensitivity.*Has excessive amounts of energy.*Bores easily - may appear to have a short attention span.*Requires emotionally stable and secure adults around him/her.*Will resist authority if it is not democratically oriented.*Has preferred ways of learning, particularly in reading and math.*May become easily frustrated because they have big ideas but lack the resources or people to assist them in carrying these tasks to fruition.*Learns from an exploratory level, resisting rote memory or just being a listener.*Cannot sit still unless absorbed in something of their own interest.*Is very compassionate; has many fears such as death and loss of loved ones.*If they experience failure early, may give up and develop permanent learning blocks.

Sounds like a description of an Indigo Child to me - doesn't it to you?

Robert, we are just talking labels here. These children (and do keep in mind that the above list describes these people in the childhood stage, not the adult stage) are just different from how their parents were as children, and calling them Indigo or Crystal is just a step better than calling them ADD, ADHD, ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) or any of the other labels that basically mean "defective."

Of course the herd will consider anything not a sheep to be defective.

I understand what you're getting at with labeling, Elizabeth, but there's so much apparent nonsense around this particular term Indigo Children that it's a bit of a stretch to place any kind of real hope in them in the way you do (your reference to Kevin's animal/human). I don't really agree that "calling them Indigo or Crystal is just a step better than calling them ADD, ADHD, ODD" when taking into consideration the crazy flaunted by the adults that surrounds these kids.

Okay, I had a piece of terminology wrong - I was told that Crystal Children and Indigo Children were the same thing.

That list of the 4 types of Indigos looks nothing like the list of Indigo types in the book ( humanist, conceptual [more into projects than people], artist, and interdimensional [into philosophy and religion]).

Although humans have weak sense abilities that are not given credence by the older and more superstitious generations (Please read The Sense of Being Stared At), it sounds like the Indigo label has become something of a catch-all for anything that seems strange to those who do not really understand.

Thank you for this interaction. I think it's time for me to stop using these phrases as if there was a standardized understanding of what they mean. I prefer to use descriptions that would convey a much more accurate gist of what I mean.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Okay, I had a piece of terminology wrong - I was told that Crystal Children and Indigo Children were the same thing.

That list of the 4 types of Indigos looks nothing like the list of Indigo types in the book ( humanist, conceptual [more into projects than people], artist, and interdimensional [into philosophy and religion]).

Although humans have weak sense abilities that are not given credence by the older and more superstitious generations (Please read The Sense of Being Stared At), it sounds like the Indigo label has become something of a catch-all for anything that seems strange to those who do not really understand.

Thank you for this interaction. I think it's time for me to stop using these phrases as if there was a standardized understanding of what they mean. I prefer to use descriptions that would convey a much more accurate gist of what I mean.

Excuses, excuses. One of the hazards of spending too much time at Carl's BOZO THE CLOWN blog ..

PS - 3500 views at BOZO? How many do you account for .. or is BOZO part Indigo and worthy of further research?Damn, there she goes, another 700 views by Elizabeth :-) <<< the best Bozo happy face available..

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Okay, I had a piece of terminology wrong - I was told that Crystal Children and Indigo Children were the same thing.

That list of the 4 types of Indigos looks nothing like the list of Indigo types in the book ( humanist, conceptual [more into projects than people], artist, and interdimensional [into philosophy and religion]).

Although humans have weak sense abilities that are not given credence by the older and more superstitious generations (Please read The Sense of Being Stared At), it sounds like the Indigo label has become something of a catch-all for anything that seems strange to those who do not really understand.

Thank you for this interaction. I think it's time for me to stop using these phrases as if there was a standardized understanding of what they mean. I prefer to use descriptions that would convey a much more accurate gist of what I mean.

It's entirely possible that what I'm know of as being labeled Indigo and/or Crystal Children is something different from what you were referring to.

Thanks for the reading suggestion, I'll look out for it. I'm a little familiar with Sheldrake, but not in a favourable manner I'm afraid.

"When an opponent declares, 'I will not come over to your side,' I say calmly, 'Your child belongs to us already...What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing but this new community'."- - Adolf Hitler

Our children who were born on and around September 11, 2001 are now almost eight years old. These children, who we usually refer to as 'the future,' have only known a nation that has been engaged in perpetual wars, and to them it is 'forever.' How many times a day do they hear and read the word 'war'? Whether it's the TV they are tuned in to, or their parents' daily paper they happen to get a glimpse of, or the radio news program they listen to during their car rides...they can't help but hear and see 'wars': war on terror, war in Iraq, the Afghan war...

Patent laws were changed so that seeds/plants could be patented. Monsanto, the company that brought us such wonders as Agent Orange and Round-Up, also invented Round-UP Ready seeds - genetically modified seed to make crop plants resistant to Round-Up, so the whole crop could be sprayed with the herbicide and only the weeds would die.

When these genetically modified seeds grow up to be genetically modified plants, the seeds that come from these plants are also genetically modified - so even though the farmer bought the parent seed, Monsanto owns the seed that farmer grew.

Also, if a farmer does not use Monsanto seed and some Monsanto plants from another farm cross-pollinate with this farmer's plants, Monsanto then owns all his plants, too. Monsanto sends people out to various farms that have not bought Monsanto seed, claim these farmers are in illegal possession of Monsanto property, and sue the farmers.

Sure, there is a gmo-strain of corn that contains birth control goodies. So, when teen Jack and teen Jill do the wild thang, their odds of having children go down. Ditto for the age mid-30s cornflake-eater Elizabeth and cornbread-eater Dan. They want a one-and-only child? .. well, tough luck middle-agers, Big Brother/Sister don't think you should have one.

Patent laws were changed so that seeds/plants could be patented. Monsanto, the company that brought us such wonders as Agent Orange and Round-Up, also invented Round-UP Ready seeds - genetically modified seed to make crop plants resistant to Round-Up, so the whole crop could be sprayed with the herbicide and only the weeds would die.

When these genetically modified seeds grow up to be genetically modified plants, the seeds that come from these plants are also genetically modified - so even though the farmer bought the parent seed, Monsanto owns the seed that farmer grew.

Also, if a farmer does not use Monsanto seed and some Monsanto plants from another farm cross-pollinate with this farmer's plants, Monsanto then owns all his plants, too. Monsanto sends people out to various farms that have not bought Monsanto seed, claim these farmers are in illegal possession of Monsanto property, and sue the farmers.

The title of this video tells its own story, and in this 75 minute interview Jim lays out the compelling and disturbing evidence that while most people thought the Second World War ended in 1945, the Nazis were never stopped in their agenda - which can only be understood when one considers how they were assisted in coming to power by those Controllers who plan in terms of generations... not terms of government office.

I tried very hard to remain calm, and responded, 'Yes you do. You need to provide me with a response; with an answer...' She took out her hand-held radio and called her supervisor, 'We have a big problem here. Someone is disrupting our procedure...'

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:America prides itself on being "land of the free." Freedoms seem to be vanishing, and instances of police abusing their power are starting to look commonplace.

Australia was strongly considering censoring the internet. Is there freedom of speech in Australia?

I've seen enough of these sorts of stories on the In the News thread, and the second news thread, that I think the topic of the growing police state deserves its own thread.

The first time, the cop says "Get down on the ground; you're going to get tasered." He then tells the guy to get down on the ground now OR he will get tasered, so the guy calmly gets down on the ground, lays there passively but asks why the cop is kicking his legs around, lays there calmly while 5 of the 6 cops back away from him, and then he gets tasered.

Meanwhile the Institute, together with newly formed Giuliani Group, is shopping their famous policing philosophy all over Latin America, from Mexico City to Santiago, despite the warnings of some that what worked in an economic boom in New York might not fly in a dirt-poor metropolis where violent crime is rampant and the police are notoriously corrupt.

I would say the solution is the same as it ever was: get a gun, protect yourself.The government, the police, aren't going to do it.

Hmmm. Privatized prisons, privatized policing, privatized civil service jobs, privatized education, privatized public utilities . . . I'm getting a picture in my mind -- yes, that's it. The U.S. as a series of gated communities, the modern equivalent of castles with moats. Is this what the Founding Fathers had in mind? If you are paranoid of the government, then look out for the day that "private industry" closes the police loop. "Vertical integration", and government becomes irrelevant!

"The critical parts of the guidelines are being withheld, so it's impossible for anyone to make any informed comment on what the FBI is doing."

Remember Orwell's Big Brother: "How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate, they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to."

The Obama Regime wants to keep hidden the whole notion of this "synthetic recovery."

Remember how Barry McCaffrey used to say that 2014 is the drop date and we're going to need a million more police on thestreet to control the unrest that's coming - when people get hungry and they don't have any fuel to heat their homes.