MaxxLange: <Cactus> White can force a draw in the Muzio after much bloodshed, but risks a loss too much trying for more, if I remember right. I think a lot of the classical king pawn romantic openings kind of died that way. After enough time (like 100 years), correct methods of defense were found, and a lot of lines peter out into draws.

qskakaley: Okay, I gotta say, I'm lovin' the King's Gambit these days! I think I just graduated from beginner status the other day (in terms of overall chess abiility/strategy) because I've been on a tear lately. I think the key for me was realizing that I can't just shoot for tactics to win material in every situation. I have to sometimes try to understand the position better and then use tactics to earn me a better position, rather than just material. Sounds easy enough, but really KNOWING that has helped me become so much stronger in just a couple games. Anyway, what does this have to do with the KG? Well, I'm a 1.e4 kinda guy, and after learning the Scotch (my first opening when I just started not too long ago) and the Ruy (and no, I'm NOT saying I've learned all there is to learn about the Ruy, obviously I have a LOT more to learn), I have tried to be more adventurous/mix it up a little more. I think I like the KG b/c it seems to lead to very open positions/tactical battles, which I prefer and believe are my strongsuit. Anyway, just had to say, KG, I love you!

xrt999: CG.com lists 1,112 games in this opening, whereas Chessmaster has 728 games.

For the beginner, I think that CG showing that Rubinstein vs NN, 1-0 in 13 moves is important, but not at the intermediate to expert level.

That's why I like the CM database in this regard, because it lists only top level games from modern competition. Therefore, of the 728 games in the CM database, the record in this opening is as follows:

1-0 252

draw 192

0-1 284

To me, saying that the KGA is great for white based on the records from CG is slightly misleading, because the results are skewed with games such as Greco vs NN, 1620. In top level competition from the modern period, black is clearly superior in the KGA.

On a related note, the opening of the day today is "KGA-Fischer's defense", which is what I play almost exclusively against the KG.

Why do you think Fischer accepted the KG, and then played 4...d6? Think about it.

ganstaman: <xrt999> Can you get the average Elo of the white and black players for those games in your database? It may be that white seems to do worse because generally weaker players try the KG (try to create more complications and hope to sneak out with a win whereas stronger players want a more definite advantage and so avoid this opening).

offtherook: Well, it's not quite the opening of the day, but the Fischer defence to the KGA doesn't seem to have its own page here, so I'll make do with this.

The Fischer defence seems to me to be easily refuted with 4. h4! By refuted, I don't mean that White will always win, just that Black's goals (establishing the strong kingside pawn chain while avoiding Kiesseritsky) will not be achieved because white has now prevented the pawn chain. But in any case, most people I play don't seem to use 3...d6 as a segue into a true Fischer but just continue on playing other moves, so there is little value for me in the prophylactic 4. h4. I normally play 4. Bc4, so that if 4...g5 5. h4 g4 6. Ng5 and black has problems on f7. That normally doesn't happen, and black just plays moves like Be7, Nf6, 0-0, and returns the pawn, leaving the game more positional than I as a KG fan would like and quite boring.

I would play an immediate 4. d4 to attack the pawn immediately, but when I do that my opponent is more likely to go straight for the pawn chain with 4...g5 and I'm stuck in the regular Fischer, which, while far from a guaranteed Black win, is not particularly fun to play as White.

offtherook: Of course, another interesting fact is that Fischer did not invent this new defense, as he claimed to. Anderssen vs F Amelung, 1862 is an example of the Fischer defense played about 100 years before Bobby "invented" it in response to thisóSpassky vs Fischer, 1960 loss to Spassky. There are a few others in the CG database from well before Fischer's time as well, so it strikes me as odd that he is credited with (and claimed to) developing a new system against the KGA.

I've actually been neglecting the KG lately, playing things like Bishop's opening, Scotch, and even Exchange Spanish. Perhaps coincidentally, I have been on a rather astounding losing streak.

offtherook: Fischer defense the opening of the day again- and it's only been 6 months since its last day at the top. On the rare occasions when I play open game as black, and by an even rarer occasion my opponent plays the king's gambit, I play the fischer defense. It is passive, defensive, and solid- exactly the type of play to drive a KG player stark raving mad. I don't mind it too much as white because there are lines where white can sac a bishop and open up the kingside.

offtherook: <xrt999: Why do you think Fischer accepted the KG, and then played 4...d6? Think about it.>
He didn't Bobby Fischer never once played the Fischer Defense OTB. He analyzed it and wrote an article claiming to have refuted the King's Gambit, and after that no one played the King's Gambit against him so he never had a chance to use "his" opening OTB. He did, however, play the king's gambit as white himself several times during his career, albeit typically in simuls and usually preferring the 3 Bc4 variations.

Marmot PFL: <offtherook> This is a tough line to meet. I had a recent game go 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 Nf3 d6 4 d4 g5 5 h4 g5 6 Ng1 Qf6 7 Nc3 c6 8 Nge2 Bh6 9 g3 f3 10 Nf4 Qe7. I won after a few mistakes but wasn't even sure I had anything for the pawn for some time.

IMlday: <MarmotPFL> There is some interesting cg kibitzing on that position in L Day vs L Morin, 1984
I think White's big trump is the space advantage and controlling the timing of opening the position. So I always played 11.Kf2 and gave myself an !

offtherook: <Marmot> Yes, I know the Fischer defense is very solid. I play it against KG myself as black, just to close up the position and annoy gambiteers.

As White, I always preferred to play Bc4 before d4, and I didn't generally retreat my knight back to its starting square. To my mind, doing that really kills a lot of the fun (even if it is theoretically the best continuation).

NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply.
Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous,
and 100% free--plus, it
entitles you to features otherwise unavailable.
Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should
login now.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.

No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.

No personal attacks against other members.

Nothing in violation of United States law.

No posting personal information of members.

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page.
This forum is for this specific opening and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or
this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages
posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.