The Blue Jays are going to look a lot different when we open the year there on April 2. Reportedly getting Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, Emilio Bonifacio, and John Buck from the Marlins for top prospect Adeiny Hechavarria + more.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Rakes in millions on profit sharing over the years, spends a little money here and there, gets the state to finance a brand new stadium, signs a bunch of stars to hugely back-loaded contracts, then trades them all before they really get expensive. Sit back and collect the money.

Pure, unadulterated evil genius.

The thing is, everyone has known that this guy is a total douche-bag, and has been so for many years. Why would anyone think that he wouldn't pull something like this?

Another problem I see with it--from an Indians standpoint--is that the collection of prospects Miami receives really isn't all that impressive, considering the players going to Toronto. I know it was largely a "clear the decks" salary dump type of trade, but could it set a bad precedent in the trade market if the Indians are indeed (and correctly so) fielding offers for guys like Choo, Cabrera, Perez, etc? It's already getting harder to obtain top prospects in trades...does this further increase the trend?

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:I thought maybe Selig/MLB might nix this deal to prevent what is obviously going on here, but that wouldnt stop them, they would just sell off each piece individually.

Just sad.

I had seenarticles that maybe he knew, but I only skimmed them. I thought maybe after he strong armed the Dodgers maybe he would do the same to the Marlins, but that was only because I didnt have a deep understanding of how corrupt this whole thing actually was, I knew the whole thing was fishy..... but I didnt know it was this bad.

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, having followed the Indians for so many years with so little to show for it, but...

Doesn't it seem like MLB is in danger of becoming one big, shitty joke in most of its markets? I mean, there are a few good teams out there, but they're only good because they can spend more money than the 99%. The rest of the teams (Indians included...Indians especially) are falling apart at the seams because they can't find enough competent talent to fill out a major-league roster. I'm even getting to the point where I'm not so sure it's Shapiro and Antonetti's fault any more.

jerryroche wrote:Maybe it's just the cynic in me, having followed the Indians for so many years with so little to show for it, but...

Doesn't it seem like MLB is in danger of becoming one big, shitty joke in most of its markets? I mean, there are a few good teams out there, but they're only good because they can spend more money than the 99%. The rest of the teams (Indians included...Indians especially) are falling apart at the seams because they can't find enough competent talent to fill out a major-league roster. I'm even getting to the point where I'm not so sure it's Shapiro and Antonetti's fault any more.

Adverb Harry wrote:Another problem I see with it--from an Indians standpoint--is that the collection of prospects Miami receives really isn't all that impressive, considering the players going to Toronto. I know it was largely a "clear the decks" salary dump type of trade, but could it set a bad precedent in the trade market if the Indians are indeed (and correctly so) fielding offers for guys like Choo, Cabrera, Perez, etc? It's already getting harder to obtain top prospects in trades...does this further increase the trend?

No, this was strictly a salary dump, the Marlins probably threw darts to see which prospects they'd take. The Indians have legitimate players on team-friendly contracts to trade, which should bring in better return. Even a guy like Choo, whose approaching free agency, should bring in more by himself than the collection of terrible contracts Miami sent away.

Adverb Harry wrote:Another problem I see with it--from an Indians standpoint--is that the collection of prospects Miami receives really isn't all that impressive, considering the players going to Toronto. I know it was largely a "clear the decks" salary dump type of trade, but could it set a bad precedent in the trade market if the Indians are indeed (and correctly so) fielding offers for guys like Choo, Cabrera, Perez, etc? It's already getting harder to obtain top prospects in trades...does this further increase the trend?

No, this was strictly a salary dump, the Marlins probably threw darts to see which prospects they'd take. The Indians have legitimate players on team-friendly contracts to trade, which should bring in better return. Even a guy like Choo, whose approaching free agency, should bring in more by himself than the collection of terrible contracts Miami sent away.

Not apples to oranges, cause the Indians don't have players in the Reyes/Johnson class to move - at any price.

I would argue that there are enough suitors in the league that would give you more for a top level playa, and absorb the salary, then what the Tribe might be trying to move.

Either way, the ship has sailed long ago where you are going to get some kind of huge blue-chip prospect hall for players coming out of a small market. Everyone and their Mom knows the situation of the small markets team, and that's why the price is down.

As I mentioned here a month or so ago, the similarity between the Tribe and the Marlins lies in a ten year run of poor draft results. Making some trade moves here or there, and getting the best of the luck involved in them means something, but if you REALLY want to win in this market you better draft well. Period.

The Marlins whiffing on ten straight number one picks has afforded us to see how the sliminess can be moved from "stripping championship teams" to "Raping an entire broke city," so that's somehing that came out of it.

skatingtripods wrote:Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

They really want a Catcher, A Santanna for Hellickson would make more sense on their side, especially since both are young and Carlos comes with more Control than AC. Not sure they would give up that much control with Hellickson for only 2 years with Cabrera.

skatingtripods wrote:Jon Morosi on All Bets Are Off just said he believes James Shields and Jeremy Hellickson are available in exchange for offense.

I'd take Hellickson. Shields is a short-term fix for a contender. Hellickson's at least controllable until 2017.

Cabrera + ??? for Hellickson sounds good.

They really want a Catcher, A Santanna for Hellickson would make more sense on their side, especially since both are young and Carlos comes with more Control than AC. Not sure they would give up that much control with Hellickson for only 2 years with Cabrera.

They need to keep pace in the AL East. They're not worried about losing a guy like Hellickson. They'd just move McGee or Davis into the rotation. Morosi's in the know. If he said Shields and Hellickson are available for offense, then they probably are. They have no problem losing Choo for a draft pick at season's end with their drafting record.

With their pitching, a couple of three win players like Cabrera and Choo could make the difference. Could potentially see a guy like Joe Smith go in that deal as well.

Most likely a pipe dream, as I'm not sure Antonetti would have the stones to make that move if it were offered to him, but if Hellickson is in fact available, Antonetti should have called already.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

motherscratcher wrote:No matter where you stand on Antonetti, I doubt he turns down a deal that brings Helickson to Cleveland. I don't see how any GM in his positionncould hope to do better than that.

I would hope not. From a PR standpoint, they'd get destroyed if they sent Choo and Cabrera in the same deal. Not saying that should play into Antonetti's mind one iota, but, somebody in the front office would make that case.

I could argue against Hellickson as well, though. For starters, his FIP is 1.4 runs higher than his career ERA. His SIERA (skill-interactive ERA) is in that same range. Those are strong indicators of regression on the horizon. His left on base % numbers are extremely high for a guy who doesn't strike out many hitters. All of his road peripherals are worse than his home ones.

He's obviously far more competent than most (all) of the guys we have in our rotation, so by comparison, he looks outstanding. There are some concerns. Not enough to keep from inquiring on his availability and making a serious proposal, but, something to make you pause.

The Rays are one of the most advanced front offices in baseball. The very nature of them looking into trading Hellickson, guys like McGee and Davis waiting in the wings or not, with so many years of control is something to consider as well.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:Jeremy Guthrie just got a 3-year deal from the Royals. And Dayton Moore wonders why the Royals don't win.

My initial reaction was to Google "Jeremy Guthrie" to see if there was another, better Jeremy Guthrie that I did not know about who might deserve 3 yrs/$25 million. There wasn't. 'Twas the one and only Jeremy Guthrie.

"And three of the better guys in franchise history, Daugherty, Z and now Kyrie could get hurt in a rubber room full of cotton balls." - Leadpipe

I found it hilarious years ago when people on this site felt the Tribe "ruined him" "Didn't give him a fair chance" or "Lost a gem."

But with those things being said, before we run around exhausting all our "Jeremy Guthrie Blows" jokes, it should be understood that A. He'd clearly make the Tribe's rotation and B. He wouldn't be the most overpaid hurler on the squad.

You know how the really fat kid in class shouldn't be busting the balls of a kid cause he's short....

I found it hilarious years ago when people on this site felt the Tribe "ruined him" "Didn't give him a fair chance" or "Lost a gem."

But with those things being said, before we run around exhausting all our "Jeremy Guthrie Blows" jokes, it should be understood that A. He'd clearly make the Tribe's rotation and B. He wouldn't be the most overpaid hurler on the squad.

You know how the really fat kid in class shouldn't be busting the balls of a kid cause he's short....

What's more sad is that Guthrie probably would be the Tribe's second best starter.