Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by Anita18

I'm not sure how one could be elated with TDKR if they're not into Batman. Part of why the ending is so cathartic is because you're invested in the character and when Bruce is finally to move on, you're happy and relieved for him. The more invested you are in Bruce, the happier you are for him at the end. Like, I have a coworker who has NO idea what Batman really is, other than the guy who dresses up like a bat. I had to explain that he was made when his parents were shot dead in front of him as a boy and she looked at me like what sort of fun superhero is this, you people are messed up. That kind of viewer might not find the ending as cathartic and joyful as we did.

But I suppose there are also the "Batman should never be able to move on! He should be messed up his whole life!" kinds of fans, whom I consider sadists.

Heh, I don't know either, but I think it's a testament to the emphasis Nolan and Co. put on Bruce's character arc and story throughout this trilogy, as well as TDKR's overall quality. You get so invested in Bruce Wayne, the man, the flawed individual behind the mask, this person who's suffered a horrible tragedy as a child, that you can't help but want him to move on and finally be happy. I think each of the three movies strives to show the human side of Bruce Wayne and perhaps that's the reason some people get so invested in the character even though they've only seen one of the movies in the trilogy. And it all starts in BB, where we see what made him become Batman, as well as the guilt he feels as a child for his parents' death. It's one of the reasons BB is revolutionary and why I rate it so highly, it's the first live-action Batman film that explores his origin so thoroughly and it makes the audience care and understand the person that's behind the symbol. I'm probably pointing out the obvious, but I think some of us forget that it was BB's brilliance in this department that offered the foundation on which the trilogy was built upon.

I see where the fans who want Batman's mission to be never-ending are coming from. It's still an interesting take on the character, but I appreciate that Nolan went in a direction few were expecting with his interpretation. It keeps things fresh and I feel that his take has certainely added another worthy chapter in the character's vast history.

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Originally Posted by Reek

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Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by Ryan

I remember hearing Smith's podcast where he really loved TDKR. I don't know the dates between that one and this one. Although over the top at times, most of my reasons for feeling that TDKR fell short of the other two were expressed by his co-host. Smith himself takes shots at the film, and somewhere in the podcast the cohost points out that Smith loved the film, which kinda seemed contrary to the feeling of this show. Smith thought that the film was executed well, and his biggest praise was simply that a guy was able to make a more serious toned Batman and use villains like Bane and Talia Al Ghul. For me, it takes more then that to just enjoy a film. I again loved Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but The Dark Knight Rises just wasn't a direction I enjoyed in comparison to the previous 2.

Kevin Smith is a bit of a wh*re, haha. In his first podcast on the movie, he was bursting into tears just from merely mentioning certain scenes.

In the second podcast with Ralph Garman, he gave him the floor to trash the movie and kind of went along with it. That's because Smith is a pretty much cool-headed and open-minded kind of fan, and it's also because he has some "comic book cred" to maintain. Ultimately Smith loved the movie because it had a huge emotional effect on him, and for a lot of people that's often the true measure of a film. Obviously the villain choices alone aren't the reason he liked the film, though yes he did praise the boldness of that.

My biggest problem with Ralph Garman's criticisms was that he was really stuck on "Bruce Wayne would never be a recluse for 8 years", completely missing the part about how he wasn't a recluse for all 8 years and only became one 3 years prior after mothballing the fusion reactor. He kept insisting that Bruce was moping about for 8 years because his girlfriend died and that just is not what is presented in the film.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I believe that Smith also went along with the idea that there was an 8 year gap, as he kept mentioning that it was done so that they could introduce the John Blake character. You are right, they did dwell alot on that 8 year gap thing, which honestly makes no difference to me and was not one of the factors that detracted from the film for me.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by Anita18

I always explain TDKR to people as "BB shot like TDK." That was my very first opinion about it after I saw it once, and after seeing it 4 more times, I stick by that. It's almost amusing how well it meshes the two preceding movies together.

I didn't see TDKR as attempting social commentary like TDK. I think that's what we gave it after the Occupy Wall St allusions in the trailers from Selina, as well as Nolan filming on Wall St. But in the movie, it isn't like the plot had non-plot-related social commentary in the beginning and abandoned it. Even before the siege and the class warfare stuff, Bane explains exactly what he's going to do and more importantly, why he's doing it.

IMO, the reason why people had that expectation of TDKR being intelligent and having social commentary is because of TDK. The plot is more akin to BB with the personal vendetta thing, but it IS shot more seriously, like TDK was. Hence my one-sentence description.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

So I got The Dark Knight Rises today on blu-ray, and just finished re-watching it for the first time since July. The big question; did it improve in my eyes? Not really overall.

To elaborate a bit, I appreciated the stuff I enjoyed before even more. Namely Hathaway as Selina, the Batman vs Bane fights, Batman's scenes in general though they were few and far between, the Bruce/Alfred scenes.

Unfortunately the stuff that bothered me before I still disliked such as the 8 year gap, the lack of the Gotham people's reactions, Talia and the LOS connection to Bane, Bane's plan in general, the over abundance of Blake and the ridiculous way he knew Bruce was Batman, Foley was even worse than before, the under use of Gordon.

So overall my opinion has not really changed. It's still a good movie, a nice sequel that broke the superhero threequel curse. But it's still a big step down from BB and TDK for me.

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Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I remember hearing Smith's podcast where he really loved TDKR. I don't know the dates between that one and this one. Although over the top at times, most of my reasons for feeling that TDKR fell short of the other two were expressed by his co-host. Smith himself takes shots at the film, and somewhere in the podcast the cohost points out that Smith loved the film, which kinda seemed contrary to the feeling of this show. Smith thought that the film was executed well, and his biggest praise was simply that a guy was able to make a more serious toned Batman and use villains like Bane and Talia Al Ghul. For me, it takes more then that to just enjoy a film. I again loved Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, but The Dark Knight Rises just wasn't a direction I enjoyed in comparison to the previous 2.

People can still love TDKR and have a few complaints as Kevin Smith does. I love Spider-Man 2 but I have many complaints with that film.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by The Joker

So I got The Dark Knight Rises today on blu-ray, and just finished re-watching it for the first time since July. The big question; did it improve in my eyes? Not really overall.

To elaborate a bit, I appreciated the stuff I enjoyed before even more. Namely Hathaway as Selina, the Batman vs Bane fights, Batman's scenes in general though they were few and far between, the Bruce/Alfred scenes.

Unfortunately the stuff that bothered me before I still disliked such as the 8 year gap, the lack of the Gotham people's reactions, Talia and the LOS connection to Bane, Bane's plan in general, the over abundance of Blake and the ridiculous way he knew Bruce was Batman, Foley was even worse than before, the under use of Gordon.

So overall my opinion has not really changed. It's still a good movie, a nice sequel that broke the superhero threequel curse. But it's still a big step down from BB and TDK for me.

Quoted for truth. Of the trilogy, TDKR will be the one I least watch from beginning to end. One of my favourite scenes in the movie is actually one I don't hear alot of people talking about. The Gotham Wallstreet scene. Not so much the parts with Bane, but the shots of the Gotham police bracing themselves outside the building for whatever was about to take place. All I could think of is what is going through those cops minds? Despite 8 years without a major incident, the acts of the Joker must still weigh on everyone's minds. Now, they have some unknown menace and a hostage situation. I thought that was kind of powerful, but only perhaps because I put myself in their shoes.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Joker

So I got The Dark Knight Rises today on blu-ray, and just finished re-watching it for the first time since July. The big question; did it improve in my eyes? Not really overall.

To elaborate a bit, I appreciated the stuff I enjoyed before even more. Namely Hathaway as Selina, the Batman vs Bane fights, Batman's scenes in general though they were few and far between, the Bruce/Alfred scenes.

Unfortunately the stuff that bothered me before I still disliked such as the 8 year gap, the lack of the Gotham people's reactions, Talia and the LOS connection to Bane, Bane's plan in general, the over abundance of Blake and the ridiculous way he knew Bruce was Batman, Foley was even worse than before, the under use of Gordon.

So overall my opinion has not really changed. It's still a good movie, a nice sequel that broke the superhero threequel curse. But it's still a big step down from BB and TDK for me.

Hate to hear that, haha, but I definitely don't see anything wrong with the things you don't like, as I have always felt, except we probably both agree that Foley was a very unnecessary character.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Am I the only one who actually liked Foley?

I definitely didn't like him, but I wasn't bothered by his character as much as others were. He's just there to be honest, but I would've liked it if they kept that scene where he saves a fellow officer by jumping in front of a Tumbler in the movie. It would've at least given him a memorable ending.

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Originally Posted by Reek

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Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I don't think there's anything really wrong with Modine's performance, but I would have had less of a problem with Foley if he hadn't been portrayed as such a dunderhead.

If there'd been more made of his desire to replace Gordon and the political aspects of that, some stakes regarding Gordon's possible loss/removal, such as the possible return of corruption to the department that Gordon cleaned up, he could have worked as a character. But instead, half his role in the film focuses on an almost cartoonish inefficiency and his desire to take down Batman and ignore basic police procedure.

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Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I would have not minded Foley if he was in TDK, but he just shows up here. BAM! And we're supposed to feel something for this character? I know there's a 8 year gap. Maybe I should blame that. I don't know.

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Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I'll be honest, it was nice to see Foley have something of an arc with him finally dressing up for the war at the end and leading the police against Bane's army of criminals and the LoS, but just the idea of Deputy Commissioner makes no sense when that position wasn't around in BB and TDK.

Imo, if I could have done this, I'd take out Foley and put Coleman Resse back in. I always wanted to see Reese back in TDKR, especially since he became aware of Bruce being Batman and with him being an accountant of sorts and Wayne Enterprises losing its money and then Wayne losing his own money, seeing Reese showing up would make some sense.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Bull.

I agree.
My father died five years ago.
It still hurts.
I have managed to get through it because I have family and I have outlets .
True, Bruce still has Alfred, but after hanging onto the hope of a life with Rachel for so long,
Bruce wanted more than just Alfred in his life
Without Batman as an outlet , all Bruce had was his grief.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by Brain Damage

Am I the only one who actually liked Foley?

I wasn't bothered by him for the most part. Really enjoyed him during the stock exchange scene all the way through Batman's return scene.

I understand most people hated his repetitive hot head comments and the fact that he took up what could have been Gotham citizens POV moments. The latter really bothered me, but besides that I was fine with Foley. Just hated how his awesome death via tumbler was cut out.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

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Originally Posted by The Guard

I don't think there's anything really wrong with Modine's performance, but I would have had less of a problem with Foley if he hadn't been portrayed as such a dunderhead.

If there'd been more made of his desire to replace Gordon and the political aspects of that, some stakes regarding Gordon's possible loss/removal, such as the possible return of corruption to the department that Gordon cleaned up, he could have worked as a character. But instead, half his role in the film focuses on an almost cartoonish inefficiency and his desire to take down Batman and ignore basic police procedure.

Well, I think he admired Gordon in the beginning.
But when Foley found out Gordon might be replaced, he got ambitious.
He died well though.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I like to dislike Foley. I think that is the gist of the character, it is kinda fun to put on Blake's shoes in the police chase scene, when Foley is insulting Batman because we can almost hear what Blake is thinking. We are supposed to see this impetuous and arrogant man. But in the end, he is ultimately inspired by Batman to join the fight, finally doing the right thing and dying in the process. We may not felt for Foley, but we can understand that even people like him can do things right.

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Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I think like has been said, Foley is crusading to be the man that brings in the Bat, but in the end is inspired by him, in the same way the whole GCPD are hunting Batman, but end up fighting by his side in the final fight. I don't think it would of changed the film too much had he not been in it to be honest.

Re: Am I the only one that feels like TDKR prevents Nolan's trilogy from being perfec

I get the idea that the viewer could just dislike the character of Foley which is intended to, but a storyline of Foley actually trying to get Gordon's spot could've been shown in the film as well, but we just get this arrogant Deputy Commissioner who then realizes Gordon is right about a masked man being in the sewers, then backing out of it after Bane killed that Special Forces team, then shows up after some convincing, leading the police into war with Bane's army until he gets shot and killed by a Tumbler. Pretty much an overall terrible arc for Foley.