Gold Glove.. Comeback player of the year. . . arguably 2nd or 3rd place in MVP candidate for this year. .and here you go. this is imporant to you. . LED THE TEAM IN JACKS.. HOMERS>> LONG BALL. . still think he's "sub par" and not worthy of his praise? . . I think you finally have been shut up ..and FINALLY put in your place. . if you have any sort of answer to this besides. . "you're right" Ells is the real deal. . that answer will prove your ignorance, stubborness. . .and your lack of baseball knowledge. . OR just the fact that you're a Yankees fan. . trolling on our boards. SUCK IT SOFTY! . . and Congrats to Ells, AGon and Peddy for their GGs

Now, do you evaluate talent based upon career averages, ballpark factor and lineup talent around a player, or do you soak your shorts over 1 season in front of Pedroia and AGon and offer Ellsbury a Crawford plus extension of 7 years and 150 million?

I recognize a circumstantial windfall season, Crawford contract mistake by Inepstein, proper talent evaluation and career averages within lineups, and I offer Ellsbury to the Dodgers for a true superster and perfect Red Sox fit given what Inepstein has stuck on the long term books.

Obviously, Ellsbury was neither a team leader or a 2011 season difference maker, even in proper context.

Ellsbury 2008 BA .280 OBP .336 SLG .394 (Manny to Dodgers) 2009 BA .301 OBP .355 SLG .415 2010 BA .192 OBP .241 SLG .244 2011 Acquisition of Agon (Pedroia gets pin out and returns to better form) Carrer BA .301 OBP .354 SLG .452 Crawford (Playing on a weak Tampa Offense lineup) 2008 BA .273 OBP .319 SLG .400 2009 BA .305 OBP .364 SLG .452 2010 BA .307 OBP .356 SLG .495 Gold Glove Career BA .293 OBP .333 SLG .441 Now, do you evaluate talent based upon career averages, ballpark factor and lineup talent around a player, or do you soak your shorts over 1 season in front of Pedroia and AGon and offer Ellsbury a Crawford plus extension of 7 years and 150 million? I recognize a circumstantial windfall season, Crawford contract mistake by Inepstein, proper talent evaluation and career averages within lineups, and I offer Ellsbury to the Dodgers for a true superster and perfect Red Sox fit given what Inepstein has stuck on the long term books. Obviously, Ellsbury was neither a team leader or a 2011 season difference maker, even in proper context.Posted by hankwilliams

OK. Ellsbury's numbers were inflated by being in front of a truly awesome line-up. I get that. Reasonable. But, pointing to 'career averages' as if a player jumps into the league in his first two years in full stride and we can take those developmental years as indicative of his 'career averages': unreasonable.

Love Els ..... but as a thought if you are Ben do you consider signing Beltran and using Beltran and Kalish to cover CF and trade Elsbury to the Marlins to get Mike Stanton. This breaks up all the lefties and gives the Sox the big right hand bat to bat behind Gonzalez. The Sox still have Crawford or Pedroia to bat 1-2 ... Just an outside the box thought.

Florida isnt going to bite this trade. Ellsbury is due for the biggest abritration case's salary increase ever in MLB!! So trading Ellsbury (12 million dollars a year) for Stanton (450,000 dollars) make sense to all of us?

Hell no!!

Florida probably would rather to ask for a combination of Droubmont or Bard or Lar Anderson or Middlbrook or Iggy or the other remaining top 5 best prospects!!

Love Els ..... but as a thought if you are Ben do you consider signing Beltran and using Beltran and Kalish to cover CF and trade Elsbury to the Marlins to get Mike Stanton. This breaks up all the lefties and gives the Sox the big right hand bat to bat behind Gonzalez. The Sox still have Crawford or Pedroia to bat 1-2 ... Just an outside the box thought.Posted by Sully1965

Not a bad thought - I wouldn't mind seeing Stanton in the Fenway outfield. I'm not sure the Marlins would trade him, though.

Ellsbury 2008 BA .280 OBP .336 SLG .394 (Manny to Dodgers) 2009 BA .301 OBP .355 SLG .415 2010 BA .192 OBP .241 SLG .244 2011 Acquisition of Agon (Pedroia gets pin out and returns to better form) Carrer BA .301 OBP .354 SLG .452 Crawford (Playing on a weak Tampa Offense lineup) 2008 BA .273 OBP .319 SLG .400 2009 BA .305 OBP .364 SLG .452 2010 BA .307 OBP .356 SLG .495 Gold Glove Career BA .293 OBP .333 SLG .441 Now, do you evaluate talent based upon career averages, ballpark factor and lineup talent around a player, or do you soak your shorts over 1 season in front of Pedroia and AGon and offer Ellsbury a Crawford plus extension of 7 years and 150 million? I recognize a circumstantial windfall season, Crawford contract mistake by Inepstein, proper talent evaluation and career averages within lineups, and I offer Ellsbury to the Dodgers for a true superster and perfect Red Sox fit given what Inepstein has stuck on the long term books. Obviously, Ellsbury was neither a team leader or a 2011 season difference maker, even in proper context.Posted by hankwilliams

If the Dodgers would agree to trade Matt Kemp for Ellsbury, the Sox would have to make that deal (assuming the inevitable tag-along side pieces make sense for both sides). Not sure the Dodgers would go along with this deal, but I can't argue with the logic of "Hank's" proposed offer.

Florida isnt going to bite this trade. Ellsbury is due for the biggest abritration case's salary increase ever in MLB!! So trading Ellsbury (12 million dollars a year) for Stanton (450,000 dollars) make sense to all of us? Hell no!! Florida probably would rather to ask for a combination of Droubmont or Bard or Lar Anderson or Middlbrook or Iggy or the other remaining top 5 best prospects!!Posted by GoUconn13

It's just a thought but I went with Marlins and Stanton because I heard earlier this week (maybe MLB Radio) that they expect the Florida Marlins to be bold, strike fast, and spend a ton of money this winter. They need to build interest in the club to fill up that new stadium they are building. I believe they said the winter of 2012 would belong to the Marlins and 2013 winter would belong to the Nationals.

We are not getting Kemp. Can we agree that the Dodgers are not going to trade Kemp for Ells and ???. The ??? would make the trade untenable for us.

Why do posters continue to think we are going to get some blockbuster FA or trade this hot stove season? It is not going to happen, in fact there really are not any blockbuster FA's out there that the Red Sox have a hope of getting. We have been there, last year and what did it deliver......another 3rd place finish.

Ells will be gone soon enough, when he gets to FA in two years. Mark my words, all you Ells haters will not be happy with the player who replaces him in CF. Book it.

You can't trade Ellsbury for Mike Stanton, but you might be able to trade him to the Cardinals (if Pujols walks) for Shelby Miller & John Jay, and use them to get Mike Stanton. It's still a long-shot though - he's too good and cheap for too long for the Marlins to want to move him. Josh Johnson or Hanley Ramirez, though, are very realistic. I'll be surprised if both players start the year with the Marlins.

You can't trade Ellsbury for Mike Stanton, but you might be able to trade him to the Cardinals (if Pujols walks) for Shelby Miller & John Jay, and use them to get Mike Stanton. It's still a long-shot though - he's too good and cheap for too long for the Marlins to want to move him. Josh Johnson or Hanley Ramirez, though, are very realistic. I'll be surprised if both players start the year with the Marlins.Posted by slomag

You can't trade Ellsbury for Mike Stanton, but you might be able to trade him to the Cardinals (if Pujols walks) for Shelby Miller & John Jay, and use them to get Mike Stanton. It's still a long-shot though - he's too good and cheap for too long for the Marlins to want to move him. Josh Johnson or Hanley Ramirez, though, are very realistic. I'll be surprised if both players start the year with the Marlins.Posted by slomag

It's not worth baiting Softy as he is willing to make infinitely silly, indefensible "arguments" to defend his original, patently wrong, view of Ellsbury.

It is funny, however, that a couple of years ago Softy would occasionally make grotesque, stereotypical comments about Native Americans vis a vis Ellsbury, but this year Softy suddenly started claiming to be part Cherokee!

Gold Glove.. Comeback player of the year. . . arguably 2nd or 3rd place in MVP candidate for this year. .and here you go. this is imporant to you. . LED THE TEAM IN JACKS.. HOMERS />> LONG BALL. . still think he's "sub par" and not worthy of his praise? . . I think you finally have been shut up ..and FINALLY put in your place. . if you have any sort of answer to this besides. . "you're right" Ells is the real deal. . that answer will prove your ignorance, stubborness. . .and your lack of baseball knowledge. . OR just the fact that you're a Yankees fan. . trolling on our boards. SUCK IT SOFTY! . . and Congrats to Ells, AGon and Peddy for their GGsPosted by detourjazz

Ellsbury will hit 3rd next year (where he should have been the last half of this yeara) and he should hit 35-40 HR and his RB I total should be in the 130s. He has lost a step since 2009, and was never a veery good base runner anyway. Without the speed he once had, he tries to get too big a lead, for one thing, and he does not temper his aggressivenss. But, he can sure hit! He has proven that without a doubt.

Now, do you evaluate talent based upon career averages, ballpark factor and lineup talent around a player, or do you soak your shorts over 1 season in front of Pedroia and AGon and offer Ellsbury a Crawford plus extension of 7 years and 150 million?

Crawford never came close to a season like Jacoby's 2011.His best numbers?BA: .315HR: 19RBI: 90OBP: .356Slg: .495OPS: .851

I remember you getting "all wet" over what you called two good seasons by Coco in Cleveland:2004 .300 15 712005 .264 16 69You said at the time that Coco "had more potential", because he'd "already done it".

I'd never offer Ellsbury $150M/7, but he's certainly better than Coco, and not has the "potential" to do it again... cause he's done it before bozo!

I recognize a circumstantial windfall season, Crawford contract mistake by Inepstein, proper talent evaluation and career averages within lineups, and I offer Ellsbury to the Dodgers for a true superster and perfect Red Sox fit given what Inepstein has stuck on the long term books.

You can "offer" Jacoby until the cows come home, clown. You've been offering him up since 2007 with each year you saying "sell high".

The Dodgers will not trade Kemp for Jacoby and more than the padres would have. They are not going to win in the next two years and if they did trade Kemp, it would be for a boat load of propsects with many years of team control.

Obviously, Ellsbury was neither a team leader or a 2011 season difference maker, even in proper context.

Adam Dunn is available, Moonslob. While you are prevaricating and resorting to silly hyperbole. Wastefield is also available. Crawford's career years are more than one, Moonslob.Posted by hankwilliams

"...slob"...."Waste..."....what a charming man you are, Hank! Look up an ex-poster named "Softlaw", you'd get on with him. Rude, childish, bigoted....two peas in a (non-gay as Softlaw made many homophobic posts) pod....do you have a giant gold hoard and two children at "top" (albeit Southern state universities) too!

Why does everyone want to trade him? Isn't having one of the best hitters in the game, who also plays gold glove defense, and has very good to great speed, all at a good salary, the epitome of a player for a team? We have that, yet everyone wants to trade him.

Reasons heard from fans and reporters alike:

1) He is a Boris client. I don't understand why this is a disadvantage for the Sox. The Sox are one of the few teams that can afford the ridiculous salaries that Boris comes up with. If anything, I think it is an advantage that he is a Boris client. The Sox will only be bidding against 4-5 other clubs for his services when he becomes a free agent.

2) Because of past turmoil. By the time he becomes a free agent (2013), the "turmoil" would have been 4 years prior. Lets assume he has 2 more good years, the Sox go to the playoffs, maybe the series in one of them. Do you really think that he will say "yes, I have had 3 great years, I have gone to the post season, I play for one of the best baseball teams and cities in the league, BUT! 4 years ago ........... (time does heal wounds). Plus, one of the main culprits on the team for this (Youk) won't be much of a factor by then, if he is still even on the team.

3) We already have Crawford. Although I feel Crawford will get better (how can he get worse), he won't be as good as Ellsbury was. Besides, where is it written that a team can't have 2 good hitting, great fielding, guys with speed on the same team?

Yes, Ellsbury value is very high right now. But there is a reason for that. HE IS WORTH/DESERVES IT! Yet most people in the Boston area wants to get rid of it. Shouldn't we want to keep such great value? Doesn't make sense.

I would try to trade Ells and Reddick to the Cardinals for Jon Jay en Allen Craig. Crawford, Kalish, Jay and Craig will lock up the outfield for the next several years and Craig, Jay and Kalish will be very cheap. This way we have money to spend where we really need it: pitching.