Conditional 1st (condition being it's in the 20+ range) + B prospect.
Or maybe just a non-conditional 1st or a B+ prospect.

I want Toronto to blow it up, so I personally would have no interest in roster players.

Yes lets blow up the second youngest roster in the league! This is the reason the Leafs never rebuild, as soon as they start you have some "brilliant" Leaf fans wanting to start all over again. Why don't we let the rebuild continue?

I really doubt Kulemin will be traded, it makes no sense. He is young, just signed a contract and has SIZE. Something the Leafs lack.

D prospects can be traded for other position prospects, ala, Schenn-JVR. Aulie- Ashton

Nothing wrong with adding another D prospect.

Maybe Ashton can be as good as Kulemin some day. Do you see the issue here? Why would the Leafs trade a young, 26 year old winger, that skates well, plays the body, has scored 30 for a kid that may or may not make the NHL. It doesn't make sense that they would do that. Not with Rielly, Percy, Finn, Blacker, Holzner, Gardiner -- they have enough young D.

Trading a player that is NHL ready and fits in your lineup now and in the future for a prospect that you would then trade to get a player hopefully like the one you traded is dumb. You'd only make that deal if they overpaid.

Makes no sense for the Leafs unless it's Sutter or MAF coming back the other way. Of course if Pitts want to give some top young player and a couple good picks well...but overall this thread is going nowhere. The Leafs don't need/want nor will they accept an underpayment for Kuly.

Maybe Ashton can be as good as Kulemin some day. Do you see the issue here? Why would the Leafs trade a young, 26 year old winger, that skates well, plays the body, has scored 30 for a kid that may or may not make the NHL. It doesn't make sense that they would do that. Not with Rielly, Percy, Finn, Blacker, Holzner, Gardiner -- they have enough young D.

Trading a player that is NHL ready and fits in your lineup now and in the future for a prospect that you would then trade to get a player hopefully like the one you traded is dumb. You'd only make that deal if they overpaid.

Makes no sense for the Leafs unless it's Sutter or MAF coming back the other way. Of course if Pitts want to give some top young player and a couple good picks well...but overall this thread is going nowhere. The Leafs don't need/want nor will they accept an underpayment for Kuly.

And Pittsburgh shouldn't have to pay through the nose for a guy that dipped 23 goals in one year. He is a good player, but not at the expense you are thinking (Sutter, Fleury, Morrow). Agree ... this thread is going no where.

Yes lets blow up the second youngest roster in the league! This is the reason the Leafs never rebuild, as soon as they start you have some "brilliant" Leaf fans wanting to start all over again. Why don't we let the rebuild continue?

I really doubt Kulemin will be traded, it makes no sense. He is young, just signed a contract and has SIZE. Something the Leafs lack.

dont even act like the leafs went through a proper rebuild. It was rushed, and as a result we are in the position we are now in.

What if the Pens offered Fleury? Could the Leafs be fooled into taking this?

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“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile, but that it is indifferent. If we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” - Stanley Kubrick

I like the statement on Kulemin. He is a very quiet guy that works his tail off.

I always said about him, if he got a chip on his shoulder; he could really do some special things. Even when he scored 30 he was really passive. He can create chances all on his own, but sometimes it seems that he hasn't developed a confidence to stand out. With the right coach and linemates, the confidence can get instilled this sponge and I have no doubt that he could reach his potential.

That is another reason why it would be hard to see him go for market value (whatever that would be

Agreed. Why do you think Pens fans want him, for the 30 point pace he's been scoring at since his 30 goal season?

Heck, as I said earlier, you take out Kuli's one game against his buddy Malkin this year, and his stat line in 9 games is 1g, 2a, -4.

You'd like to use him as centerpiece for a high end talent, but those days ended 18 months ago. Right now, he's no more than the third best piece in a deal like that.

Kuli could have a better statistical season, but whatever improvement there would be in his value by next fall as a result goes down because he'd be an impending UFA next fall.

He's worth more to the Leafs now than they can get in a trade. But, is he worth 3M a year after next year?

THAT is the trick for Nonis. Not is he a valuable player to the Leafs. But, what will it cost to keep him, what is the organizational value of player and cost, and even how do you define that value (in a two year or say four year window). There are a lot of variables for him to consider beyond the here and now.

You'd like to use him as centerpiece for a high end talent, but those days ended 18 months ago. Right now, he's no more than the third best piece in a deal like that.

Kuli could have a better statistical season, but whatever improvement there would be in his value by next fall as a result goes down because he'd be an impending UFA next fall.

He's worth more to the Leafs now than they can get in a trade. But, is he worth 3M a year after next year?

THAT is the trick for Nonis. Not is he a valuable player to the Leafs. But, what will it cost to keep him, what is the organizational value of player and cost, and even how do you define that value (in a two year or say four year window). There are a lot of variables for him to consider beyond the here and now.

It's not always about stastistics. As has been said time and time again, Kulemin is worth more to our team than his offensive stats may suggest.

And why the **** would I have faith in the Toronto Maple Leafs and their Management team? What reasons have they possibly given me to have faith? For the most part, we have been the laughing stock of the league since the previous lockout ended.

It's not always about stastistics. As has been said time and time again, Kulemin is worth more to our team than his offensive stats may suggest.

And why the **** would I have faith in the Toronto Maple Leafs and their Management team? What reasons have they possibly given me to have faith? For the most part, we have been the laughing stock of the league since the previous lockout ended.

1. I was being facetious about faith.

2. I wasn't doubting Kulemin's value to the team. I was asking how Nonis values him in totality. They are two different yet mutually important questions. Worth 3M a year long term? Worth more than what he can get for him right now (which could be assets more easily leveraged in a deal for a higher end talent)?

2. I wasn't doubting Kulemin's value to the team. I was asking how Nonis values him in totality. They are two different yet mutually important questions. Worth 3M a year long term? Worth more than what he can get for him right now (which could be assets more easily leveraged in a deal for a higher end talent)?

you know how it can get when you read something online. Can be hard to detect that sarcasm or facetiousness.

With regards to how much Nonis values him. Tough to say really.

I'd personally be happy with 3 mill per year or so over say 4 - 5 years. I dont think we would be able to collect enough quality picks prospects for him. In other words, the assets we'd acquire him for wouldn't be enough IMO to leverage into a deal for higher end talent.

If you want to go the upgrade route, I'd rather they package up say a Biggs or Ashton with Kulemin to get an upgrade that way.

Personally would rather just keep him. Every team needs players like Kulemin.

D prospects can be traded for other position prospects, ala, Schenn-JVR. Aulie- Ashton

Nothing wrong with adding another D prospect.

And how do we know Kulemin, an established 2nd line player is worthy of trading for a defensive prospect who can then be flipped for something better? Or will ever crack the Leafs lineup?

I'm not there. In the cases of JVR/Schenn and Aulie/Ashton they were basically across the board moves, because JVR/Schenn were already established NHLers, and Aulie/Ashton are still nothing but prospects right now.

You would basically be trading one of the Leafs top 6 wingers, who brings a skillset most current Leafs players lack up front and exchanging it for an unknown.

you know how it can get when you read something online. Can be hard to detect that sarcasm or facetiousness.

With regards to how much Nonis values him. Tough to say really.

I'd personally be happy with 3 mill per year or so over say 4 - 5 years. I dont think we would be able to collect enough quality picks prospects for him. In other words, the assets we'd acquire him for wouldn't be enough IMO to leverage into a deal for higher end talent.

If you want to go the upgrade route, I'd rather they package up say a Biggs or Ashton with Kulemin to get an upgrade that way.

Personally would rather just keep him. Every team needs players like Kulemin.

Hey, I'm a Pens fan, but I'm also a hockey fan. I know how it can be for fans of any team with 'fool me once, shame on me, try to fool me for the umpteenth time . . . '.

And, just so you know, there are a lot of us who would give Phil Kessel's good nut to get Kuli, we like him that much. We're just trying to stop playing fans and instead trying to envision what Dave Nonis conceivably could want that Ray Shero conceivably could be willing to give.

And how do we know Kulemin, an established 2nd line player is worthy of trading for a defensive prospect who can then be flipped for something better? Or will ever crack the Leafs lineup?

I'm not there. In the cases of JVR/Schenn and Aulie/Ashton they were basically across the board moves, because JVR/Schenn were already established NHLers, and Aulie/Ashton are still nothing but prospects right now.

You would basically be trading one of the Leafs top 6 wingers, who brings a skillset most current Leafs players lack up front and exchanging it for an unknown.

This thread is full of people who have never watched Kulemin play aside from the Leafs v Penguins games.

He is never getting traded for a 1st or some long shot prospects. If you want him, its gonna be for an NHL ready dman who has top 3 potential. The only player in Pittsburgh's system that fits the bill is Morrow. Its Morrow or bust.

Makes absolutely no sense for us to trade a do-it-all 26 year old winger for a 1st rounder. We are not doing a 500 year rebuild.

Are you joking? Morrow is not top 3 potential, he's #1 PP QB potential.