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Author
Topic: Times when I don't want a woman's point of view... (Read 10682 times)

I totally support the forum of Positive Women and the support and comfort it has given the awesome women of this community…since we have such a diverse community here, I am wondering if it is not time for a forum for Man Talk…the same rules as is followed for the women…but a place for men to talk about issues without input from the lovely ladies…guys have issues that can be dealt with by talking and sharing with another guy….and we do have some issues….cheating wives/bf/gf…custody…divorce…sex...vasectomy...anal warts...you get the point…and not to create a separation of the men and women…as there are many times when a woman’s point of view is priceless…but I would think men should have the same option as women do here when they want to talk about something….as to where they want to post a subject…and who's views they want...just my thoughts

I don't think it is a bad idea at all actually. Just like the men lurk in our forums, I would definitely lurk in the men's forum. It would be interesting to see what men do care about or their concerns. I hope you get your wish, Bob.

I second Dad's idea! In fact, there are often times where I've thought it would be nice to 'bury' a thread a bit... sort of like me never reading the Women's forum. There are times when something's not totally HIV related but not so casual as to be in off topic. Can we get some other input and thought from Those in Charge?

Bear's right, too... women and gay men sure do know how to talk! I just had lunch with my favorite lady (some of you met her in S.F.). We did manage to find a bit of time to eat.

Matty the Damned opposes in the strongest possible terms the notion of a "mens forum".

Every forum in this place is a fucking men's forum. Men never shut up around here. All we ever hear about is men, men, men. "I can't get it up", "I'm going bald", "I've got fat around my cock that wasn't there before.", "Why is my lover sleeping around?", "When will I find a wife to clean up after me?"

Blah, blah, blah.

Since the positive women's forum was started, more HIV+ women participate here. Presumably because there's a place for them to get away from moaning, whining men in their lives. A place to be free from comments about the size of their tits, and juvenile references to menstruation.

Boys, do you ever wonder why there are some women here who never post outside of Poz Women? It's because of the men.

So the day when a man can demonstrate that he's unable to post about his shit because of the outrageous behaviour of women is the day we should have a specific men's forum.

I did so with the most diplomatic of intentions, but have zero interest in doing so again. Largely because, despite numerous PM's that I received from other posters on the subject, almost no one would man up and say so when I presented it publicly for them. I found that very telling.

I will break from Matty, Bear, Doxie and others in saying that if there was a strong conviction for the need of this additional forum, I would support anyone in the seeking of it. I suspect that would be my position for just about any subset one might suggest if it was in the legitimate interest of breaking down barriers to communication as it relates to the positive members of this site. I am not entirely convinced of that necessity here, to be frank about it. I personally have no need of it whatsoever. That said, if such a space was instituted, I would do my best to partake in exchanges there whenever I felt I had something to contribute.

I don't think it's a fair assessment, however, to dismiss the suggestion at the outset by saying "the whole site is already a men's site" simply by virtue of the member demographics. As it is, it is a shared site with a membership largely consisting of men, but with a separate section available to women. There is technically a difference in that respect. It's kind of like saying that just because there are mostly men at the gym, there's no real need for a men's locker room. Perhaps that's an awkward analogy, but I think you can get what I mean by that. The fact that it's mostly men here does not automatically nullify the need some men might feel for a sense of privacy, and if some men here really feel they do need this I don't think they should be berated for it.

But whatever. If some of you feel you need that, make your proposal if you want.

if there is a need i guess a men's space should be created. i don't have a problem posting about my issues here. i guess the point is for other men who do have issues posting there concerns in an open forum. if that space (a men's' thread) will give the others the comfort & security they need to resolve their concerns then so be it. while i strongly agree with mtd, timmy's point is pressing also. i guess another forum would be great for men. its a lot better than typing "oh, and no women please" after comments.

but will it end? will we need a latino space, a gay space, a black space, etc...? hmm, sounds like this could be a journey down the rabbit's hole.

if there is a need i guess a men's space should be created. i don't have a problem posting about my issues here. i guess the point is for other men who do have issues posting there concerns in an open forum. if that space (a men's' thread) will give the others the comfort & security they need to resolve their concerns then so be it. while i strongly agree with mtd, timmy's point is pressing also. i guess another forum would be great for men. its a lot better than typing "oh, and no women please" after comments.

but will it end? will we need a latino space, a gay space, a black space, etc...? hmm, sounds like this could be a journey down the rabbit's hole.

Well said, next. Look, guys and gals:

(1.) I steadfastly hold to my argument that some men may in fact wish to have a space to talk about "guy things" without commentary from the women.

(2.) I also wholeheartedly get Matty and Doxie's assessment that sheer demographics largely makes this whole site seem like a "men's forum" at the outset.

With that in mind, couldn't this privacy aim be achieved much more simply in the way that snow essentially suggested? Is an entirely separate forum necessary to hit this goal? I don't think so. Why not just take a cue from the women and have recurring "Men's Talk" threads? If you label it, say: "Men's Talk 1: I've got a funny knot on my nut sack", "Men's Talk 2: I can't get it up", etc. and state in the OP that you'd like to table it for just the men, I have little doubt the women here would graciously oblige. Yes, they may read...but in all honestly, as it is we can still read everything they are posting in their forum now if we really want to. I currently skip over their threads based on title alone because I see what it is and respectfully pass. I have no reason to think they would not extend the same courtesy towards us if it was asked of them.

Someone posted a thread last night about "Straight HIV+ Dating". I think that is a wonderful idea. It's a dialogue that clearly needs to be happening. Thing is, it has been happening for the gals for some time now. Trouble is...the men can't join in with them there in the discussion. What to do? Exactly what that poster did: Start your own, and he did so most courteously. My hope is that the straight men who have been decrying the inability to have this exchange will not just dismiss it out of hand and expect it never to really happen. Instead, I hope they forge ahead and just continue the dialogue on their own. I'll lay money that if a sincere dialogue continues, you'll soon find both the men and women participating in it...and you're off and running. No reason at all (that I can see) that there can't be a Living With recurring dating thread similar to the one that I've been seeing pop up month after month as a cornerstone thread of the PW Forum.

If you've really got something to say, people will listen. If you've really got an earnest request, people will heed it.

So I guess the suggestion of a men's forum is going nowhere, or was it not 'formally' suggested to Those In Charge?

Well, I have to say that gives some credence to the argument that it is just some men bitchin'. Same thing happened last time. Some guys moaned and groaned about it, but fell dead silent once it was publicly aired for them.

I always said that I don't personally have much of a need for it - and have since said that I can see the same thing being acheived by way of "Men's Talk" threads if need be.

Interesting opinions but is there actually a forum for men like that anywhere? Probably not, so maybe one of you men should take the initiative and start one if it doesn't happen here. Just because this site may be 90 percent men, does not mean that straight men don't have the need to talk. Are they not suppose to talk and just suck it up cause society says it is the thing men are suppose to do. And I love my gay men but you guys know you do nothing but talk and no one is going to stop you from talking.... So why shouldn't the straight, butch, macho, rico- suave guys have a spot? Just saying....

Looks like the opinions are about 50-50…I understand the part of starting specific threads, however it isn’t the same as a separate forum…where rules apply as to who can post…sure you can say in a thread who you want to reply, but it doesn’t stop those that you don’t want to…I mean my first argument would be it’s posted in an open forum to all…

So to the moderators, I ask…if I posted in Living With and said “no gay men” would they make sure none replied and warn them if they did…what a nightmare for them.

I still think there is a need, and could possibly add more to our community, as the women’s forum sure brought more women here…

Looks like the opinions are about 50-50…I understand the part of starting specific threads, however it isn’t the same as a separate forum…where rules apply as to who can post…sure you can say in a thread who you want to reply, but it doesn’t stop those that you don’t want to…I mean my first argument would be it’s posted in an open forum to all…

So to the moderators, I ask…if I posted in Living With and said “no gay men” would they make sure none replied and warn them if they did…what a nightmare for them.

I still think there is a need, and could possibly add more to our community, as the women’s forum sure brought more women here…

So now let's be specific here. Is your goal to bring more men here...or just more straight men?

And I don't see mods monitoring that request as any more difficult than monitoring/moving posts from the PW Forum, but I have to ask again:

Would that request of yours be that no women respond to your "Man Talk" threads or that no gay men respond? Because, ya know...gay men are men.

There is no dearth of men here, dad. Just perhaps straight men. This post of yours is again very revealing.

Do tell: What exactly is your real intention here? Is it a men's forum...or a straight men's forum?

Looks like the opinions are about 50-50…I understand the part of starting specific threads, however it isn’t the same as a separate forum…where rules apply as to who can post…sure you can say in a thread who you want to reply, but it doesn’t stop those that you don’t want to…I mean my first argument would be it’s posted in an open forum to all…

Well, so what? I mean, would it really be that crushing if someone you didn't "want" to post in your thread did? If that's true, heaven help you. There are batshit crazy people who post in my threads - and even send me PM's - that I don't want to hear from all the time.

Again, aside from a random accidental post, I am willing to bet that the women would honor your request to stay out of your Men's Talk threads. This again makes me suspect that maybe your real motive is a discussion with only other heterosexual males. And you know what? That's cool, babe - if that's what you think you need. There has been a Hetero Dating Thread up that I haven't touched - cuz it doesn't concern me. I just think that if a Hetero Male (or just plain "Hetero") forum is what you are really seeking, you should own up and say so.

I guess my question would be what would be the harm in a forum just for men? Would I post there? Who knows. Although it wouldn't be specifically designated for straight men, I can see where there might be a time when they would want the general audiance to be men. As much as we gay men can blab on and on about just about anything, we generally do try to respond to questions if we can.

Say, for example, that a HIV+ man wants to ask something about dealing with his negative wife. He wants to know how other men have dealt with it. If he asked this in a men's only forum, he would only get responses from men (duh). Just like I may have some insight to a question in the Positive Women's forum, that's too bad; I can't post there. If the OP had wanted my input, she wouldn't have posted there. One can add something like 'men only, please' to a post and put it in OT or LW, but we all know how well that works.

Face it, adding a men's only forum wouldn't divide us any more than a woman's forum. It also wouldn't mean that we need to have one for gay men only, blacks only, Asians only , etc as we'd all still fit into the women's or men's forum.

Again, I don't see me posting in it, but why not? Would it hurt? Not likely. Would it help? Quite possibly.

I sure wouldn't be allowed in a straight men's forum, so that is not my intentions....although maybe they need one

so not as revealing as you thought.....

I just think that the women get some great comfort and support in their forum talking about their issues...and just thought that men could use the same....no matter what their orientation is...

And would it be all that bad if their were more straight men here...

My Gaydar works just fine, though does tend to get thrown off when someone such as yourself posts about requesting "no gay men" respond to his threads.

And no - in my opinion, it would not be "all that bad" if more straight men were here. If they are out there reading this and feeling alone and without support, I urge them to get over their fears and join us.

Further: If there is actually a swell of men out there who are resisting joining in much needed discussions here on the basis of there not being a Men's Only section, then I urge them to contact The Powers That Be and say so. If a legitimate need reveals itself, it will be met. If it's only the occasional grumblings of one or two men here and there....maybe not.

I would like to ask that a GAY HIV+ MIDDLE AGED BTM BAPTIST DEACON forum be established.....

Seriously, a line must be drawn somewhere. I think hunter's suggestion of "Men Talk's" might work. However that too could be taken to extreme by someone's title being White Straight Men's Talk only.....

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela

I personally could care less if there's a men's forum. We women, though, are respectable enough not to post in threads where our input is not wanted. Unfortunately, that's not been the case in our women's forum with some men, who have posted in there irregardless. (No offense to those of you who don't) Our bodies have distinct differences when it comes to HIV that most of us only feel comfortable talking about with other ladies. The majority of men here (that I've observed) don't seem to mind putting it out there 'for all to see,' so to speak. If one of you men put in the title 'men only please,' believe me, we women would have enough sense to not respond. Yes, we could still read it, but the men can also read the women's forum, so what's the difference. This is just my opinion.

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

I personally could care less if there's a men's forum. We women, though, are respectable enough not to post in threads where our input is not wanted. Unfortunately, that's not been the case in our women's forum with some men, who have posted in there irregardless. (No offense to those of you who don't) Our bodies have distinct differences when it comes to HIV that most of us only feel comfortable talking about with other ladies. The majority of men here (that I've observed) don't seem to mind putting it out there 'for all to see,' so to speak. If one of you men put in the title 'men only please,' believe me, we women would have enough sense to not respond. Yes, we could still read it, but the men can also read the women's forum, so what's the difference. This is just my opinion.

The majority of men here (that I've observed) don't seem to mind putting it out there 'for all to see,' so to speak.

I find that very offensive .... ok ... even I didn't buy that one. Don't see the need for one but don't see a big harm if thats what the Big Brothers & Sisters (didn't want to offend) decide. I just like as many opinions as I can get. I know I'm not always right (but not often wrong) So, I'm greatful to be able to see things from another angle.

AA

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It is not the arrival that matters. It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne