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Topic: Would Your Faith in Christ Be Shaken? (Read 3723 times)

If the "Antichrist" should suddenly come on the scene and be revealed, and you were still alive here on this earth, would you believe the rapture had taken place already and you were left behind? What would you believe? Would your Faith in Christ be shaken to the point of falling away to worshipping the Antichrist, if he tried to convince you that he, himself, was Christ sent back to earth to set up his kingdom? Would you fall away and accept his mark? Would you be found worshipping him or would your Faith in Christ remain in tact, without wavering?

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larry2

Dear alive_n_christ, I do not expect to be here any later than two hundred and fifty days prior to the middle of the week of tribulation, but if by my walk with Christ I fit into the category of the Thyatira church condition and according to Revelation 2:22 was thrown into great tribulation (Jacob's trouble or the second half of the tribulation) I do believe the elect of God during that temptation to come upon all the world will not be seduced by all that can be thrown at them; it is not possible.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days (250 days), no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

larry2

Since both of you believe that you will be in Heaven during the tribulation period, and since you believe it so fervently, would you mind humoring us and answering the "what if" scenario?

Dear Brother Bond, I suppose you're addressing me as one who believes in the rapture. If I were to find myself in that situation I would still be looking to Christ for deliverance. I read of the woman in Revelation 12:6, figurative of the elect both in heaven and on earth, but those on earth fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. That is the period of time or last three and one half years of the tribulation when the antichrist begins his reign.

Exactly what that will be I have no idea but God's word will stand true in the face of all adversity. We read in Revelation 9:4, "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads;" The elect have the seal of God.

Who are those beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. To me they come out of the second half of the tribulation who receives Christ during that terrible time.

Hi brother larry. Thank you for your thoughts. I hope others who believe as you do would feel the same if events were to prove them wrong.

As for you question, those who were beheaded are God's people, and while it is outside the scope of this thread, please allow me to reiterate that according to what Jesus said in Matthew 25 once He returns for His people it is too late to be saved.

The early believers of Thessalonica were troubled because of the prevalent false teaching that the day of the Lord was in process .... they thought they had missed the Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize them:

Paul had discussed this issue with them earlier [1Thessalonians 4, 5] and so he sets the record straight by explaining that the day of the Lord had not yet come ..... he also tells them why ..... because certain conditions were not present .... the coming of the lawless one and his following [the falling away].

The gathering Paul speaks of and the day of the Lord are not the same events and the Lord's immortalization of the believer [both those asleep and those living at the time] will occur first ..... and then the day of the Lord will begin abruptly with no warning given to earth dwellers.

The day of the Lord will begin with His "hour" of trial [the coming tribulation period of 2,550 days] .... and will then include His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth for 1,000 years.

The term "last day" [the time frame of the day of the Lord] used in prophetic presentation is a period of time .... not just "one" 24 hour day .... and when this is used it is always presented as "at", or "in" the last day .... not "on" the last day.

Revelation confirms that the gathering noted in 2Thessalonians 2:1 is the Lord's call to immortalize the believer just before His coming hour of trial. Today's church is seen with Him dwelling heaven, in His temple, and around the throne just before, during, and at the closing of the tribulation period. [Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:5-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-14; 20;4 (those on thrones)]

John’s spirit is taken to heaven by the Lord and into the future to be shown the time of the end:

Revelation4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven, and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Ready believers of the church:

Revelation3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked [Revelation 16:15]

3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The separating just before the beginning of the Lord's coming hour of trial and judgment:

Matthew25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

The Lord advancing at Armageddon with the immortal church:

Revelation19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation1:9~~I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here John declares that he is our brother and companion in tribulation and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ. He also tells us why he was in the isle called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 13:21~~Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.(in reference to he that receives the seed into stony places)

John 16:33~~These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

**Tribulation~~(According to "The Student Bible Dictionary" written by:Karen Dockrey, Johnnie & Phyllis Godwin, published by Holman Bible Publishers)~~1. Troubles caused by an outside source (Acts 14:22; 1 Thess 3:4; Rev. 2:10) Oppression. Can be physical, mental, or spiritual. Tribulation cannot separate Christians from God or destroy them( Romans 8:35; John 16:33). God will comfort Christians through tribulation and deliver them from it(2 Cor. 1:3-4; Deut. 4:30-31; 1 Sam. 26:24). 2.The eventual result for persons who do evil (Romans 2: 9).3. A period of excessive troubles near the end of the world or before the Lord's return (Mark 13:24; Dan. 12:1; Rev. 7:14)

Matthew 24:3~~And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The first question they asked him was, when shall these things be? Referring to Matthew 24: 2~~And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.So, they wanted to know when this was going to happen. We know from history that in 70 AD. that Jerusalem was attacked and this was done during that time, regarding this one point. But notice, they asked yet another question, "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Matthew 24:7-8~~For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:13~~But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:15~~When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:21-22~~For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:29-31~~Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24: 42-44~~Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 24:45-51~~Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of , And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:1-12~~The 5 wise and the 5 foolish virgins. The 5 wise were prepared to meet the Bridegroom, but the 5 foolish virgins were not prepared to meet him. While they went to buy their oil for their lamps, the bridegroom came and only those 5 wise were prepared to meet him and went in with him.

Matthew 25: 13~~Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4~~Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. ( This would be the Antichrist)

I have never read about a "rapture", but I have read about a "gathering together unto him", but as you can see, that gathering together unto him does not take place until after the antirchrist has set himself up as though, he, himself, is God. It is at that point, that he is brought down and shown he is but a man and the devil who gives him his great seat of authority and power, is then chained and sealed up into the bottomless pit until the thousand years with Christ is fulfilled. During that thousand year period, Christ will be ruling and reigning in his own kingdom, and we who have our faith in him and were gathered unto him will be ruling and reigning with him as Kings and Priests. For Christ will be returning with the armies of Heaven(those who have already gone on to be with the Lord through death) and we, which are alive and remain shall be changed in a moment and a twinkling of an eye.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18~~But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch-angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11~~But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another even as also ye do.

No one likes tribulation, but Christ said be of good cheer for he has overcome the world and in him there is peace.

Hebrews 12:1-3~~Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe by all these scriptures, there is a very great chance that the church will still be here throughout the tribulation period and Faith in Christ will be tried to great extremes during that time, those who remain true to God and endure the tribulation, at the end of that tribulation period, Christ will return with his army from heaven and his angels will gather his elect unto him, that is those who are alive and remain at the end of that tribulation period who did not worship the beast or his image and who did not take his mark in their hands or foreheads. Those who remained faithful to Christ looking for his return will be gathered unto him at that point. This is also the time that the anitichrist, the beast, the false prophet will be shown that they are but men, not God. The Devil who gave the beast his seat and authority of power, will be chained and sealed up in the bottomless pit til the thousand years have expired. During that thousand year period, Christ will be ruling and reigning in his own kingdom here on earth with us who have been gathered unto him and those who returned with him ruling and reigning as Kings and Priests with Christ. After that thousand year period has expired, Satan will be loosed and he will go out into the four corners of the earth to Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle:

Revelations20:9-10~~And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

After this is the Great white throne Judgement of God, where all the dead, small and great stand before God and the books are opened and another book, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Again, that's my understanding of what I have read in the Bible, but I will not pretend that I'm an expert on this but I started this thread asking what if it is how it all goes down? Would our faith in Christ become shaken if we discovered the church was indeed going to have to go through the tribulation period? Would we think the rapture had taken place and we, ourselves, somehow had been left behind? Would these thoughts somehow persuade us to turn from following Christ to following the antichrist?For, friends, regardless of when the Lord returns, we know he is returning, but will he find us following him faithfully? Will he find us enduring whatever tribulation we are faced with? or will he find us falling away from him?

Since the Bible says he will be revealed before the Day of The Lord (and thus the rapture) there is no reason to be shaken. Whether you are pre or post-trib, that verses has the exact same application.

where does the bible state that christ is returning before the day of the Lord?Also, is "the return of Christ" not the same thing as "the day of the Lord"?

Another question I have regarding the return of Christ is if Christ is to return 2 distinctive times, once above the clouds to rapture the church and those who have died in Christ and second to return to this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords with the armies of heaven with him, then how does one explain the following scriptures?.......

2 Timothy 4:1~~I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom.

{ this indicates to me that Christ is going to judge when he appears and he's going to set up his kingdom when he appears again. Often called the Judgment seat of Christ.}

Also, if the Apostle Paul believed in the rapture doctrine which teaches we're going to be raptured out before Christ judges or sets up his kingdom, then why was he charging Timothy and instructing him in this manner? Why didn't Paul just say something like, "and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall rapture his church out prior to setting up his Kingdom and judging the quick and the dead upon his second return to earth?"

2 Timothy 4:7-8~~I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

{again, it is at the Lord's appearing when Paul says he will be given this crown of righteousness and not only him but all those who love the Lord's appearing. So, which appearing would that apply to, the rapture or the literal return of Christ to this earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords?}

1 Peter 1: 5~~Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.1 Peter 1:7~~That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:( again, which appearing is being spoken of here?)

1 Peter 1:13~~Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. ( Is this at the rapture of the church or the literal return of Christ to this earth?)

1 John 2:28~~And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. (again, which appearance? which coming?

Luke 21:6-20~~As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sight and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.*********************************

**This was Christ, himself, speaking of how it is all going down and notice what he says here in verse 20, "when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."...The antichrist is often called the "Abomination of Desolation" as well as "Man of Perdition". Matthew 24:15~~When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:).*********************************Luke 6:22~~For these be the days of Vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Matthew 24:21~~For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mark 13:19~~For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Matthew 24:29-31~~Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.Mark 13:24-27~~But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.Luke 21:25-28~~And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.*******************************Note: This was how Christ, himself, said it was going down.*******************************Matthew 24:32-35~~Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.Mark 13:28-31~~Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that Summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.Luke 21:29-33~~And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.**********************************Note: Christ said when we shall see all these things( referring to all he had spoken about regarding the wars, famines, pestilences, the betrayal of family, kinsfolks, friends,parents, brethren, even to the Antichrist, the abomination of desolation sitting in Jerusalem, the holy place) KNOW ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. *****************************************Luke 21:34-36~~And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Note: To escape does not necessarily mean to be raptured out. The three Hebrew children escaped the fire of the fiery furnace. Daniel escaped the mouths of the Lions in the Lions Den. Noah and his family escaped the waters of the flood during the flood but they still went through the flood. Lot, his wife and his daughters escaped the fire and brimstone that fell on sodom and gomorrah, but his wife looked back and became a pillar of salt. We cannot look back. For those who look back are not fit for the kingdom of God, and we're not of those who look back, but we have our hope in Christ. Our Faith is in Christ and not of ourselves or another.This is how Christ described it to his disciples and he never mentioned that he would return above the clouds and rapture them out or his church out, but he did say to Watch and pray so that the day when he does return would not come upon us unaware.