I dont see any difference in what Marko and Alonso are doing. Both are just blowing off steam. I dont think you should take their words literaly. In the heat of the moment they do tend to talk crap. Everyone does

Marko is at it again. Spewing trash. Throughout the entire Episode about the illegal/legal overtake. Ferrari were doing the talking. The media were the one who said "it is believed" that Alonso was behind the move. Crap. There is no such evidence.

Marko is not the best looser too. Remember Valencia and then Turkey when Vettel crashed into Webber?

I have to agree that Alonso does not know how to handle not winning or having things his own way. He makes those comments about "100% certainities" probably because he believes in them himself but does not know what to say when his expectations do not come to pass.

Vettel is more of a realist and while he (like anyone else) expresses disappointment when not winning, IMO he is mentally more equipped to face the situation. 2012 is a good example, holding his cool and coming back following a comparatively lacklustre first half of the season.

_________________Vettel / Raikkonen / Button

Last edited by Zekenwolf on Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Kinda agree. Tbh, he been trying very hard to demerit vettel 's achievement.

In opposite, he been trying to playing down his car to the likes of midfielder and level up his achievement.

Agreed.

I have been saying all year that the Ferrari is a really good race car, capable of winning. What hurt them was Qualifying, also doesnt help Ferrari that Massa went through a huge bad phase. And as a result Alonso was the benchmark, even though when Massa started to perform again he actually at times did a better job. Meaning what? that the Ferrari was capable of doing a better job then what Alonso was doing?

If you work on the logic of that, then Alonso was not getting the max out of the Ferrari. In fact when Massa does a better job you dont hear Alonso say "Max" yet when Alonso does the better job its "Max out of the car".

Alonso, Vettel are both drivers that hate to lose and we have seen it this season. I also remember when Vettel had to stop the car in Quali, as a result he got a penalty because of his fuel. Watching the behind the scenes stuff Ferrari was really interested in the penalty or what was going on. Dom was seen looking at the letter and talking at distance to Alonso, while Alonso was sitting on the chair pretending to be laid back and uninterested. I think of Alonso like I think of Simon Cowell, a guy who knows how to play the cameras. Sometimes his emotions come through even after all his control.

Still I have huge respect for these guys, every F1 driver wants to win and do well but some guys do "pretend" or play the cameras.

Most drivers react to losing badly. Button and Kimi are the only ones who seem to take it on the chin, though I remember Button being pretty off when he fell out of contention in Korea 2010, though still not as petulant as others.

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Whilst I agree with everything else, I though Ron went to the FIA when Alonso tried to blackmail him? Edit - sorry, I realise too late you meant Ron (not Alonso) went to the FIA with the info.

Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Whilst I agree with everything else, I though Ron went to the FIA when Alonso tried to blackmail him? Edit - sorry, I realise too late you meant Ron (not Alonso) went to the FIA with the info.

No, I did mean Alonso.

My understanding of how that played out is that Dennis rang Mosley after Alonso had stormed out and relayed the conversation but said to Mosley that there was nothing in it. Meanwhile, two weeks prior Alonso had revealed the emails to Briatore, who had in turn told his buddy Ecclestone about them. After he stormed out Alonso went back to Briatore who went back to Ecclestone who went to Mosley and said, "Well actually old friend there's some truth in this........".

Mosley believed that Dennis knew all along and had been lying to him, hence why their already tense relationship reached breaking point.

Kinda agree. Tbh, he been trying very hard to demerit vettel 's achievement.

In opposite, he been trying to playing down his car to the likes of midfielder and level up his achievement.

Agreed.

I have been saying all year that the Ferrari is a really good race car, capable of winning. What hurt them was Qualifying, also doesnt help Ferrari that Massa went through a huge bad phase. And as a result Alonso was the benchmark, even though when Massa started to perform again he actually at times did a better job. Meaning what? that the Ferrari was capable of doing a better job then what Alonso was doing?

If you work on the logic of that, then Alonso was not getting the max out of the Ferrari. In fact when Massa does a better job you dont hear Alonso say "Max" yet when Alonso does the better job its "Max out of the car".

Alonso, Vettel are both drivers that hate to lose and we have seen it this season. I also remember when Vettel had to stop the car in Quali, as a result he got a penalty because of his fuel. Watching the behind the scenes stuff Ferrari was really interested in the penalty or what was going on. Dom was seen looking at the letter and talking at distance to Alonso, while Alonso was sitting on the chair pretending to be laid back and uninterested. I think of Alonso like I think of Simon Cowell, a guy who knows how to play the cameras. Sometimes his emotions come through even after all his control.

Still I have huge respect for these guys, every F1 driver wants to win and do well but some guys do "pretend" or play the cameras.

Quite. As you have pointed out, the Ferrari (in race trim) was not a 'bad' car. It was rarely the best, but Massa having to move over and/or defend for Alonso in a few races (not to mention taking a 5 grid place quali penalty...) shows that Alonso wasn't a superhero this season - as proclaimed by many.

(...) but Massa having to move over and/or defend for Alonso in a few races (not to mention taking a 5 grid place quali penalty...) shows that Alonso wasn't a superhero this season - as proclaimed by many.

So Massa is a slow driver after all? Alonso is not the superhero, Alonso is the villain, don't you know?

Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Whilst I agree with everything else, I though Ron went to the FIA when Alonso tried to blackmail him? Edit - sorry, I realise too late you meant Ron (not Alonso) went to the FIA with the info.

No, I did mean Alonso.

My understanding of how that played out is that Dennis rang Mosley after Alonso had stormed out and relayed the conversation but said to Mosley that there was nothing in it. Meanwhile, two weeks prior Alonso had revealed the emails to Briatore, who had in turn told his buddy Ecclestone about them. After he stormed out Alonso went back to Briatore who went back to Ecclestone who went to Mosley and said, "Well actually old friend there's some truth in this........".

Mosley believed that Dennis knew all along and had been lying to him, hence why their already tense relationship reached breaking point.

First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.

First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.

Yes, somebody should rewrite History for their millions because it seems there's still a lot of misinformation going round...

(...) but Massa having to move over and/or defend for Alonso in a few races (not to mention taking a 5 grid place quali penalty...) shows that Alonso wasn't a superhero this season - as proclaimed by many.

So Massa is a slow driver after all? Alonso is not the superhero, Alonso is the villain, don't you know?

Massa has been v slow/bad for most of the last couple of seasons. Much as I like Massa, I'd have to admit this.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), he drove better than Alonso for the last couple of races.

He's always been inconsistent - but it doesn't alter my point that Alonso wasn't the Superhero some proclaim if he needed Massa to take a grid place penalty/move over/defend.

I have to agree that Alonso does not know how to handle not winning or having things his own way. He makes those comments about "100% certainities" probably because he believes in them himself but does not know what to say when his expectations do not come to pass.

Vettel is more of a realist and while he (like anyone else) expresses disappointment when not winning, IMO he is mentally more equipped to face the situation. 2012 is a food example, holding his cool and coming back following a comparatively lacklustre first half of the season.

First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.

Yes, somebody should rewrite History for their millions because it seems there's still a lot of misinformation going round...

Regardless, nobody is denying that Alonso tried to blackmail Dennis. Pretty appalling behaviour in anyone's book - just to get no. 1 status 'cos he wasn't showing clear superiority over his team mate.

My understanding of how that played out is that Dennis rang Mosley after Alonso had stormed out and relayed the conversation but said to Mosley that there was nothing in it. Meanwhile, two weeks prior Alonso had revealed the emails to Briatore, who had in turn told his buddy Ecclestone about them. After he stormed out Alonso went back to Briatore who went back to Ecclestone who went to Mosley and said, "Well actually old friend there's some truth in this........".

Mosley believed that Dennis knew all along and had been lying to him, hence why their already tense relationship reached breaking point.

First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.

I think most of that is available publically now. Tom Bower's book, No Angel, on Bernie Ecclestone confirmed a few elements/filled in a few gaps.

EDIT: mucked up quoting nest.

_________________Twitter @Jo_Soucek

Last edited by Jo_ on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

If you keep winning all the time it's easy to be gracious. If you keep getting pipped at the post it's easy to be a sore loser.

Relatively speaking Red Bull seem no better at being gracious than Ferrari are at losing, and it seems the former should be easier than the latter.

_________________Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?-Epicurus

Seb isn't a great loser either... He may not be as political as Alonso, but he's younger - give him time...

Both display unattractive qualities when going through difficult times. It seems to be a developing trend amongst F1 drivers?

i've nvr come across to any driver as political as Fernando....

I can only assume you mean Spanish drivers of the modern era?

_________________Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?-Epicurus

don't remember them complaining about abnormal ease of winning in first half of '00s

_________________We are worse than animals, we hunger for the killWe put our faith in maniacs the triumph of the willWe kill for money, wealth and lust, for this we should be damnedWe are disease upon the world, brotherhood of man