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Zorn's Breakfast Club

Mark Maske filed this report on Jim Zorn's breakfast address. It's a quick hit; he'll have actual quotes shortly. For the full and updated version, keep an eye on his NFL Insider.

PALM BEACH, Fla.--Jim Zorn just finished speaking for more than an hour at the NFC coaches' media breakfast at the annual league meeting.

Among the things that the Redskins coach said was that he and other team officials, including owner Daniel Snyder, toasted late safety Sean Taylor at dinner here Tuesday night on what would have been Taylor's 25 th birthday. Zorn said that he's having a collage of pictures of Taylor assembled to hang in his office at Redskins Park to help ensure that any visitors remember what the organization lost when Taylor was shot and killed last fall.

Zorn said he speaks to his predecessor, Joe Gibbs, and plans to continue to do so fairly regularly. He's a racing fan, he said, and so far their primary topic of conversation has been NASCAR. Zorn said that one of his challenges in replacing a Hall of Fame coach will be to find a way to convince his players to accept a new way of doing things without dishonoring Gibbs's methods in any way.

His playbook is ready for his first offseason practices, he said. He has begun working with quarterback Jason Campbell, doing mostly footwork drills. Zorn said he's been pleased to find that Campbell has good footwork and should be able to move fluidly in the pocket as required by Zorn's version of the West Coast offense.

There's more on those high-profile debuts he'll have and free agency at Maske's place...

Then there is this article on Redskins.com about Vinny, the draft, and the team's draft needs. The story always seems to change a little from one location to the next. (Vinny seems to do "sneaky" really well.)

"Looking for a Productive Draft"

With the NFL Draft less than a month away, Redskins coaches and personnel official continue to zero in on prospects.

The Redskins have the 21st overall pick in the first round, and executive vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato has identified wide receiver, offensive line, defensive line and defensive back as need positions.

To hear Cerrato tell it, any one of those positions will be a consideration when the Redskins go on the clock at No. 21.

What about a first-round trade?

Cerrato has said the Redskins are more likely to trade down--and acquire additional picks--instead of trading up in the first round.

Trade offers won't come until draft day, though. For now, team officials continue to review film and interview prospects.

"It should be a productive draft," Cerrato told Redskins Radio recently. "It's the first time in a long time we have this many picks. We have to take advantage of that opportunity. There will be trade opportunities come draft day. I could be a situation where we trade back and add more picks.

"You really don't know about trading on draft day until you get going. Maybe around the 15th pick or so, team will get interested in No. 21 and come up in the second round. Maybe somebody is dropping and they want to move up.

"If we have that many areas that we like, then that could be an option. We're open to anything to improve the football team."

Cerrato gave a general evaluation of the draft's strengths and weaknesses by position.

The draft is deep in offensive tackles, defensive end and cornerback, Cerrato said.

It's not so deep at wide receiver, though.

"Receivers are strong in the second or third round," he said. "There's not a top 10 pick [this year]. I don't know if there's a top 20 pick."

With the Redskins going to the West Coast offense, it is thought that a tall, rangy receiver is needed. The draft has several candidates who fit that bill, including Oklahoma's Malcolm Kelly, Michigan State's Devin Thomas, Texas's Limas Sweed and Indiana's James Hardy.

Defensive end is often mentioned as a top Redskins need, but Cerrato expressed confidence in Andre Carter, who had 10.5 sacks last year, and the pass-rushing duo of Marcus Washington and Chris Wilson, who combined for nine sacks opposite Carter.

Still, the Redskins are expected to take a close look at Florida's Derrick Harvey, Miami's Calais Campbell, Clemson's Phillip Merling and Virginia Tech's Chris Ellis.

With the Redskins' offensive line set at the top of the depth chart, personnel officials are looking for a versatile lineman to develop into a starter.

"We're looking for a young [lineman] who can play center-guard or guard-tackle," Cerrato said. "You want to develop someone."

Quality interior offensive linemen can often be found in the second round of the draft. The Redskins drafted guard Derrick Dockery in the third round in 2003.

Virginia's Branden Albert, Boise State's Ryan Clady, Vanderbilt's Chris Williams, Michigan's Jake Long and Pittsburgh's Jeff Otah and Mike McGlynn are among the top offensive linemen in the draft.

Cornerback is a position the Redskins could consider if they trade down in the draft.

"Cornerback is deep, but not at the top of the draft," Cerrato said. "It's deep late in the first and early in the second round."

"We've always had the most success taking the best player available," Cerrato said. "Last year with LaRon Landry, we felt like he was the best defensive player on the board. That's why we took him. You're looking for a perennial Pro Bowl guy when you draft in the top 10.

"The later you get in the first round, the harder that is. But we have enough positions we're looking at when we pick at No. 21. So I think we'll have an opportunity to get an outstanding player.

"We have to get a player that can help us, if not right away then in a year."

On the Redskins being among the seven teams, all with offensive-oriented head coaches, that voted against the coach-to-defense proposal that was ratified by the NFL owners here Tuesday: "I'm on board because the rule passed. There are several reasons to vote for it. There was another side that I looked at, but that's a moot point now. We have to make sure we're up to speed: Who's gonna wear it, what we're gonna do when the offense changes personnel groups. We just have to make sure we're on target."

On readying for the offseason practices: "What encompasses being a head coach, it's a unique and new challenge. I think we could all be further along. But I feel confident in the assistants I have. We're ready for our first minicamp playbook-wise."

On melding his passing offense with the Redskins' old running offense: "I think the transition we've had in our pass protections has been great. I really thought there would be much more discussion, much more hashing out of the protections."

On Jason Campbell: "He's just in for a lot of different thoughts of how to get rid of the ball in rhythm, how to understand how fast the game is played. He's got to meet the tempo of the game. We've worked on some footwork drills. A lot of quarterbacking is change of direction."

More Campbell: "Matt [Hasselbeck, Zorn's former pupil in Seattle] developed over several years. I think Jason is going to develop over several years. What we're gonna have to do is not give him so much that he can't function.... I expect there to be some carryover from some things he's already done. The running game should not be a burden for him, and then we can concentrate on the passing game.... The learning process might be through training camp, but we'll get that done."

Even more Campbell: "He's got excellent feet. I'm getting him to play in a lower position so he's in position to make a sudden move, not standing straight up. I don't know what he needs in all areas yet because we haven't run a play. It's just been drills.... He can really move. If he's in the right position, he can really change directions and he can do it suddenly, so that's pretty good. It's not about scrambling up the field. It's about getting out of the way."

On free agency: "It's just kind of the way it worked out. I was there at 1:30 in the morning on the first day of free agency looking at the possibilities. It wasn't like we were out of it. At the time, the smartest thing to do was re-sign Todd Collins. There was no difference in Dan's desire to be aggressive."

On the draft: "I couldn't tell you it's going to be this guy. With the 21st pick, it's hard to tell."

On the team's aging offensive line: "It's what we have. It's a good group of guys and they're tight-knit.... If we can stay injury-free with those guys and keep them together, I think we're all right."

On the Redskins playing the Hall of Fame game in the preseason and then the NFL's opening regular season game on the road against the defending Super Bowl champions, the Giants: "I was just going, 'Oh my gosh' to have to play those games. But in the next breath, you say, 'That's how it goes' and you set yourself to go.... What more could a rookie head football coach ask for? I think the challenge is there. The challenge is set. I hope to meet the challenge."

On the NFC East: "This is a division where teams can beat each other up. We have to make sure we keep our guys healthy, and that's what we're doing in the offseason."

On the Redskins' offensive approach: "We'll probably have a run-first philosophy initially because of who we have as a running back and how developed our running game is. [But] I want to create balance as long as I'm here."

On succeeding Joe Gibbs: "I'm going to try to do my thing. I think what Joe would want is not me trying to pay homage to him by doing what he did. I appreciate what he's done. It's incredible to walk into our facility and see three Super Bowl trophies. All three have his name on them.... [But] I think I'm going to try to do my thing. I can't worry about the comparisons. I want to start out with a clean slate and take each day as it comes."

More on succeeding Gibbs: "I think the players realize things change. Each year is a new year and things don't stay the same. I just want to make sure we're concentrating on the right things. I don't want guys to be saying, 'That's not the way we used to do it.' I'm hoping they'll say, 'This is the way we do things now.' I want to do that without discounting what he's done."

On speaking to Gibbs: "We talk about NASCAR. We talk about racing.... We're going to talk often."

The Times has an interview with Dan Snyder in their paper today. Its a good read, here is what Dan said about himself:

Q: Can you give me some examples of those mistakes?

A: I wasn't patient enough in certain areas early on. I didn't understand the game the way I do now. I didn't understand the agents, the contractual relationship with the salary cap, the importance of the age of players. Now it's easy for me, second-nature for me.

Like him, or loathe him, he appears to have learned from his mistakes, and it trying to change his way's.

Like him, or loathe him, he appears to have learned from his mistakes, and it trying to change his way's."

This will be great from Snyder as long as he doesn't start thinking he knows more about talent evaluation, etc. than career football people. It's fine that he now is beginning to ask some of the right questions, but I don't think we want him making the final call on personnel decisions. If he wants to be that involved, he should spend the next year on the road with one of the college scouts.

NO VOTE ON PLAYOFF RESEEDING
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 2, 2008, 10:33 a.m.

No changes appear to be coming in the way NFL teams are seeded in the playoffs.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that owners today tabled the proposal for re-seeding the playoffs, deciding not to bother taking a formal vote on the issue because the clear consensus of the NFL executives in the room was that it had no chance to pass

I just read that article in the Times. This quote scares the sh_t out of me...

"I didn't understand the game the way I do now. I didn't understand the agents, the contractual relationship with the salary cap, the importance of the age of players. Now it's easy for me, second nature."

Brown, what has he done lately that makes you say that? Was it the fiscal restraint he showed during free agency? Was it not signing either OVER-RATED players, or INJURY-PRONE players this offseason that causes you concern?

i have to say, i am very pleased with almost everything that has happened since zorn was hired. since snyder has been owner, i have NEVER felt as confident and comfortable in the direction this team is moving in. I think it will take some time, but i feel that we finally have a front office structure that has the ability to succede.

I loved everything snyder said in his interview.

I love everything vinny has said and continues to say.

I'm sold on zorn. he impresses me more and more every time he speaks and i really think vinny found a great head coach for us there. I'm thrilled vinny chose him. i'm even more thrilled snyder agreed to hire him.

I think our team will take a year or two to really get going, but i think what we are seeing now is the foundation for a great winning franchise. everyone is saying all the right things, i'm just excited to see what happens.

i couldnt be more excited for the draft... if we traded down and got two or 3 extra picks, i would be estatic. Imagine a draft where we pick up 10 or more players! Even if some of them didnt make the roster, they would still push the other guys on our roster to improve in camp. very very excited guys!

Seth, I share some of your excitement. In the past the draft has been such a let down because of the lack of picks, this year is much different. They really have a chance to establish a firm foundation for the future.

A: I wasn't patient enough in certain areas early on. I didn't understand nature the way I do now. I didn't understand the leaves, the length of time it takes to grow those suckers, the importance of the roots. Now it's easy for me, second-nature for me.

Brown, what has he done lately that makes you say that? Was it the fiscal restraint he showed during free agency? Was it not signing either OVER-RATED players, or INJURY-PRONE players this offseason that causes you concern?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | April 2, 2008 11:00 AM

Dude, it takes more than one off-season of restraint to prove you've changed. We've seen this team be quiet in free agency before; in '05 the only notable move was trading for Santana and the next season it was right back to spending. I'm not saying he'll revert back to that, but I'm just not joining the "atta boy" chorus that he's getting on this blog.

Besides, they had to restructure just about everyone on the roster to get under the cap. We don't know for sure how much is a change in philosophy or a salary cap necessity. Again: kudos for the restraint this year, but I'm still waiting to see the end of the movie before giving the guy an Academy award.

Brown, I'm not saying give the guy an academy award, but last year brought in Fletcher, and Smoot,traded for Kendall, as well as some valuble backup players. This year the Redskins resigned Rock/Todd/Frost/Fabini, and has all their draft pick, save for a 4th rounder.

I'd say that its 2 years now that they've done their homework, and done better than expected to boot.

I'll grant you that Greg. But I'm punch drunk. I'm not going to allow myself to get excited about this team because the last time I did (2006), I got a 5-11 punch in the nuts. I have to see a good 3-4 year run of this behavior before I'm willing to say Snyder "gets it".

SETH I guess you're a little off that Campbell isn't mobil enough for the WCO

Even more Campbell: "He's got excellent feet. I'm getting him to play in a lower position so he's in position to make a sudden move, not standing straight up. I don't know what he needs in all areas yet because we haven't run a play. It's just been drills.... He can really move. If he's in the right position, he can really change directions and he can do it suddenly, so that's pretty good. It's not about scrambling up the field. It's about getting out of the way."

i concur. i think the bonehead moves this franchise made when snyder first bought the team were 100% snyder.

when gibbs came back, i think the bonehead moves were mostly gibbs decisions, but danny and vinny bore responsibility for letting them happen. Gibbs was like a kid in a candy store and danny was the parent who couldnt say no - i mean, how do you say no to a guy who's in canton and brought your team 3 superbowl wins? I'm sure vinny made some bad personnel decisions, but it was gibbs who wanted brandon lloyd and grilliams who wanted archuletta. those are the two worst moves this franchise has made in a while, and vinny wasn't behind them. i'm not sure about how outspoken he was against lloyd, but i read somewhere that he was adamantly opposed to bringing in archuletta but grilliams wanted him and gibbs loved grilliams so he made snyder go get him.

bottom line for me - with vinny running things, i expect us to be a responsible franchise; draft well, and make smart FA and trade acquisitions.

If we can pull 4-5 contributors off this draft, you'll have to give Vinny credit. If they are truly trying to build for the future while providing depth for this season, this draft is the most important one in the last 15 years for the Skins. As much as I want to think we are, the Skins are not a SuperBowl quality team right now. IF Campbell picks up the new offense, Portis and Moss stay healthy, Cooley has another pro-bowl year and the line holds together, we can get a wild card birth. The defense looks to be solid and hopefully some high pick rookies will contribute and add an additional spark, but we'll need to play close to perfect if we make the playoffs to make any kinda run. Our division is going to beat us up with the Eagles looking improved, the Giants coming off their superbowl and the Cowgirls coming back strong. It ain't going to be easy by any stretch.

marlon john, if campbell improves his mobility IN the pocket, thats great. everything he has done in the past indicates he's more the type to just run (albeit for 10+ yards and usually a first down). So if he improves in this area thats great. My main knock against Campbell and the WCO has to do with his inconsistent accuracy with the short to medium range passes. his accuracy isnt horrible when you look at his stats, but we werent running the WCO before. more often than not, campbell would throw an errant pass and moss, ARE, or cooley would perform some crazy acrobatics to make the completion and get next to no YAC. the WCO is all about throwing to a precise spot so that your receivers can catch the ball in stride and get significant YAC. Campbell has not shown he can do that. And if you pay attention to Zorns coments, he expects it to take YEARS for campbell to develop.... so he's finally going to develop when he's in his 7th or 8th NFL season? yeah, thats really really great.

I HOPE Campbell amazes all of us (including zorn) and picks up this offense more quickly, but rigth now, i'd rather have a veteran WCO guy run the show while zorn grooms a QB of his choosing. By the Time Campbell is likely to master this offense, Moss and ARE will be no more than 3rd WRs and cooley will be past his prime. I know i'm alone in this - but i'm not going to change my opinion until i see results on the field.

I DID NOT compare Sean Taylor to Chad Johnson. I said to keep in mind the rapport and general opinion that the media had and portrayed of Sean Taylor as opposed to what people who knew him personally felt about him.

You do not know CJ personally. You did not know ST personally.

You are entitled to feel anyway you want about Chad Johnson. To say the "team chemistry" is only thing going for the Redskins right now and bringing him in would jeopardize that... I flat out disagree.

By the Time Campbell is likely to master this offense, Moss and ARE will be no more than 3rd WRs and cooley will be past his prime. I know i'm alone in this - but i'm not going to change my opinion until i see results on the field.

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 11:42 AM

By the time Campbell masters this offense, I hope the Skins have moved on to cheaper, more explosive players. Cooley's a tight end; his prime is longer than WRs. Tony Gonzalez is still ballin' and he's well into his 30s.

My hope is that the Skins do well in the next couple of drafts and put themselves in a position to have a meteoric rise like the Packers did this year. Young core on both sides of the ball, great veteran QB play. Obviously Campbell won't morph into Favre overnight, but he could at least give us some quality production.

It seems that every time I check the blog out SETH and Brownwood are making idiotic comments, although on occasion they do come up with what could pass for intelligent thoughts. I guess some things never change.

You compared Sean Taylor being pegged as a thug to my pegging CJ an embarrassment for wearing grills and his misadventures with Spanish. Which is wrong. The media pegging Sean that way was not based on anything factual because he wouldn't talk to them. And heaven help the athlete that won't talk to the media. Ask Art Monk.

I have CJ pegged as a punk not because of his appearance, but because of his behavior. The fact is he's a showboat, a selfish player, and a guy who implodes under pressure. I don't need to know him to know that.

If you disagree and hold him up as one of the best and brightest at receiver, you're entitled to that. But I'd rather see this team do better for their future (remember, CJ is 30) by drafting a guy to play the 2nd or 3rd spot and compete to be the #1 guy in a couple years. WAY better situation than having CJ and Santana duke it out to be the #1 guy today.

greg, when zorn said years, i was thinking 3-4. Granted, Cooley would still be an effective player then, but these next 5 years are when i would expect Cooley to be "in his prime."

brown, my excitement over our draft picks and change in philosophy make me think we could be headed from dramatic improvements like the packers. Its fine that we have mostly older starters along our OL, DL, and LB corps, but i'm excited at the prospect of seeing most of our backups be young, cheap players eager to make their mark.

It seems that every time I check the blog out SETH and Brownwood are making idiotic comments, although on occasion they do come up with what could pass for intelligent thoughts. I guess some things never change.

Can This Be done?
The bengals don't want to trade chad johnson because of the cap hit they would take. Can chad do what lavar Arrington did and just pay back the money knowing he would get a new contract? I know that did not happen when we traded coles for santana but could that be done? Chad doesn't want to be a bengal anymore so I would pay back the 9 mil. and than recoup it with a team that really want him(redskins)

i didnt bring up the campbell thing, but marlonjohn loves to bring that up and misquote my opinion on him. To summarize, I think:
1)Campbell is a good quarterback and a great athlete, but i'm not convinced he is the best option for this team right now. (and yes, i do have a man-crush on Collins)
2) Campbell hasnt demonstrated the accuracy you want in a WCO.
3) Campbell IS stupid (wonderlic).

You can think my opinion is idiotic; thats your right. scampbell, I don't know if you're an idiot because you havent said anything noteworthy enough to get my attention. i haven't noticed brown ever say anything i would classify as idiotic. he and greg are among those who consistently "bring something to the table" here. I can't say the same for you. unless you're talking about poolman, i dont think you can seriously say anyone that posts regularly here is an idiot.

i don't think chad is going anywhere. there is a battle going on right now between marvin lewis and chad johnson to see who has the bigger ----. marvin lewis is trying to let the team know that HE is the boss and no one's going to push him around. it may just be posturing, but i wholeheartedly beleive lewis when he says chads playing for the bengals or not playing for anyone.

You're just a moron. You talk about CJ like you know him. I live in the Cincy area and have friends that know him personally. I've net him. He's a really nice guy. He wants to win and is unhappy about playing for losers. His plays for a penal league team and a bunch of coaches and front office personnel that don't mind adding a bunch of degenerates to the team. Seems to me that TJ is a little pissed too and he is usually pretty quiet. Maybe the front office and coaches are the ones messing everything up. Seems to me when you have the talent on that team that they have and you can't win, can't keep half your team out of jail, and you're 2 leading weapons are unhappy, maybe you're doing something wrong. Yes, CJ does have a rockstar mentality, but he wants to win. NO ONE wants to play for losers. As far as your locker room comments, I don't think you've ever been in a locker room with this guy so you really can't say one way or another. you just speculate as if it were fact and we should all just buy what you have to say. By the way, CJ and Santana are really good friends, can't see them fighting too much over who's # 1 or #2, especially if we're winning

i didnt bring up the campbell thing, but marlonjohn loves to bring that up and misquote my opinion on him. To summarize, I think:
1)Campbell is a good quarterback and a great athlete, but i'm not convinced he is the best option for this team right now. (and yes, i do have a man-crush on Collins)
2) Campbell hasnt demonstrated the accuracy you want in a WCO.
3) Campbell IS stupid (wonderlic).

You can think my opinion is idiotic; thats your right. scampbell, I don't know if you're an idiot because you havent said anything noteworthy enough to get my attention. i haven't noticed brown ever say anything i would classify as idiotic. he and greg are among those who consistently "bring something to the table" here. I can't say the same for you. unless you're talking about poolman, i dont think you can seriously say anyone that posts regularly here is an idiot.

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 12:56 PM

Jason Campbell got a 28 on his Wonderlic test as a senior. That is the same score as Peyton "Smartest Man in Football" Manning.

Last year, there was a collective groan from the hamsters whom worship the draft when it was learned that we could lose a 4th round pick in 2009 for Pete Kendall. Alas, it happened. Said pick was lost. Some of the same hamsters were disheartened earlier last year when we did not resign Derrick Dockery - not so much as during the free agency but the fact that we let it get to free agency. Yet as irony would have it, we got a better guard for 2008 and somehow traded a fourth round pick in 2009 to a 3rd round pick in 2008 by letting Dockery play in Buffalo.

"... The fact is he's a showboat, a selfish player, and a guy who implodes under pressure. I don't need to know him to know that. ..."

Posted by: brownwood26 | April 2, 2008 12:11 PM

Facts don't deny that the guy is a showboat, but what's your basis for concluding that he's selfish or implodes under pressure? The scuffle with the coaches during the playoff game? He actually had a good game that game (notwithstanding the change in QBs).

Some scouts are skeptical about Campbell's ability to read complex NFL defenses and to learn to hit secondary receivers. Teams were worried about his score on the Wonderlic test, an exam given to NFL players to test their cognitive skills in which quarterbacks are expected to score particularly high.

"My biggest worry with Campbell was with the mental aspect," said one AFC team executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We think it would have taken him a long time to learn our system."

Seth, I think you're taking Zorn's comments out of context. Zorn said that it will take Campbell several years to develop just as it took Hasselbeck several years to develop.

Zorn isn't saying that Campbell is going to stink for 3 years and finally "get it" during year four.

I think what Zorn is saying is that Campbell is already good and will continue to improve as the years progress, ultimately resulting in a very good QB.

Look at Hasselbeck's stats as a starter. Not great from the start (worse than Campbell after his first year as starter), but steady progress and what I would call good numbers consistently starting in his 2nd/3rd year.

Look at Campbells stats as a starter. The only knock you can make on him last season were the late game INTs. Everywhere else he was doing very well.

What is your basis for thinking he won't play well? You say he's not accurate, but he was hitting on 60% of his throws in his first full year as a starter (technically only 12 games). You say he's not mobile enough for the WCO, but where is the evidence of that? You say he's stupid, but where is the evidence of that?

There's a lot more data and evidence that points to him being very successful as a QB next season and for years to come than there is for him to take 4-7 years before he's good.

Okay, let's all take a cheese break before a name calling fight really breaks out.......someone's blog feelings might get hurt. It's pretty obvious that SETH isn't going to change his mind on JC. He even said so:
"I know i'm alone in this - but i'm not going to change my opinion until i see results on the field."
Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 11:42 AM
Anyone trying to change his mind is wasting their time. Just "agree to disgree". Or end a post with "owned" and it will be all over. Whoever says "owned" at the end of a post is clearly the winner and is automatically correct. I saw this on a seahawks board last year before the playoff game.

"The biggest change is that the force out rule no longer exists. In the past, if a receiver jumped to catch a ball and was pushed out of bounds while he was in the air, officials had to make a judgment call to determine whether he would have come down in bounds. That rule, which many observers felt was enforced inconsistently, has been eliminated, and now it's simple: If the receiver didn't touch two feet or one of any other body part in bounds, it's an incomplete pass."

This rule change seems to make the game a little tougher on our little fellas like Santana and ARE.

No, no, no.......you have to put it at the end of a statement/rant. For example, if sams had said:

"Seth, it's not the same test over an over again. The fact remains that he scored a 28.
OWNED"
Posted by: sams3 | April 2, 2008 01:31 PM
Then the discussion would be over, and sam declared the winner, whose opinion is correct.
Best to keep an owned in your pocket for a special argument; you can't use them all the time and retain credibility.

PFT dishing with Maske-like fervor about the Owners' Meeting ...
"The biggest change is that the force out rule no longer exists. In the past, if a receiver jumped to catch a ball and was pushed out of bounds while he was in the air, officials had to make a judgment call to determine whether he would have come down in bounds. That rule, which many observers felt was enforced inconsistently, has been eliminated, and now it's simple: If the receiver didn't touch two feet or one of any other body part in bounds, it's an incomplete pass."
This rule change seems to make the game a little tougher on our little fellas like Santana and ARE.
Posted by: dcsween | April 2, 2008 01:44 PM
Love this rule change. I always felt that the defense was doing their job by knocking someone out befopre they got their feet down. It was a candy-a$$ rule.

This team seems to be moving in the right direction under Vinny, although it's too early to tell. I'm starting to feel that Gibbs had a huge hand in many of the mistakes we made. Remember...Vinny reported to Gibbs and we know talent evaluation was not Gibbs strong suit.

I like Zorn so far...he personable and up front...Vinny has been also. Snyder's talking to the press, Vinny is talking to the press.

To say that Campbell is stupid is idiodic. Damn a test...just throw the ball into the endzone.

For the past three years, whenever you say "The Wire" white people are required to respond by saying "it's the best show on television." Try it the next time you see a white person! Though now they might say "it WAS the best show on television."

swb, good analysis. before i posted, i checked hasselbacks numbers and he did STELLAR his second year in seattle. he's had an up and down career (while still being good) but he was great his 2nd year. unless zorn was also QB coach for hassleback in green bay (making his 2nd year in seattle his 4th in the system), it only took him 1 year to pick up the offense. the contrast between hasselbacks year compared to campbells estimated "yearS" scares me.

Call me a cynic, but Gibbs praised Ramsey right before we brought in brunell. He praised Brunell right before he brought in Campbell. Zorn seems more honest than Gibbs, but i cant see a new coach who had doubts about a quarterback saying anything to damage his confidence.

I'm Greg Marino. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I enjoy ice cream and a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me I have an I.Q. of 48 and that I am considered mentally retarded.

on another subject, i do not like the forceout rule at all. it literally makes the field a yard narrower on either side. if they are going to eliminate the forceout rule, then they should atleast give the receiver a catch if he maintains posession of the ball after being forced out of bounds.

giving defensive players radios, eliminating the 5yard facemask, and eliminating the forceout rules really seem to go contradictory to trying to "increase scoring" as the NFL alleges it is trying to do.

Some scouts are skeptical about Campbell's ability to read complex NFL defenses and to learn to hit secondary receivers. Teams were worried about his score on the Wonderlic test, an exam given to NFL players to test their cognitive skills in which quarterbacks are expected to score particularly high.

"My biggest worry with Campbell was with the mental aspect," said one AFC team executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We think it would have taken him a long time to learn our system."

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 01:22 PM

That's they said about the Black Quarterback for over 60 years. From James Harris to Doug Williams to Donovan McNabb to Jason Campbell........

You will never know until you give someone a chance. Joe Gibbs did it for Campbell and Doug Williams twice. He's in the HOF, so you should listen to him instead when it comes to picking QBs.......

no the "People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I enjoy ice cream and a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me I have an I.Q. of 48 and that I am considered mentally retarded."

given the other 30 rock quotes going on, i'm going to speculate that it was a quote from the paige.

" ... if they are going to eliminate the forceout rule, then they should atleast give the receiver a catch if he maintains posession of the ball after being forced out of bounds. ..."

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 02:08 PM

I don't think that would be workable because then the only thing to stop QBs/WRs from just throwing the ball just about of bounds would be the anticipation of the hit and landing on the sideline. Santana is good (seems like one of the best) at getting both feet down, so I agree it reduces the elevation of the field, but I don't think it narrows it. I think its just one of those un-ref-able situations. If the receiver is closer to the sideline, the ball is just not interceptable so the secondary guy has every incentive just to club the guy out. Maybe they will call interference more than in the past in those situations, esp. where the defender doesn't even try to make a play for the ball and goes for the anticipatory hit to get the receiver's feet out before the ball arrives. Seems like the original idea behind the force out rule made sense, but could not be implemented. Something will have to change about how they call it.

Also, on the league move to increase scoring, I thought the primary purpose was not to increase scoring but to protect QBs (i.e., lengthen their playable lives). Seems like these other changes would not affect that latter purpose too much.

4th, i don't see this as a race issue at all... and Gibbs picked Campbell for an offense that doesnt require smart QBs, but one with a huge arm and excellent deep ball - that describes campbell. he was an excellent choice for a gibbs offense... just not for a WCO.

Go ahead and jump down my throat, anybody, but I get that bad feeling any time somebody questions Jason Campbell's intelligence. Like there is either an anti-Southerner bias at work, or something about race going on, or both.

I have seen and heard and read no evidence indicating that Jason Campbell is unintelligent, but I sure have heard a ton of people making statements about how dumb they think he is. Which always makes me wonder.

Champ Kind: Tell me about it. I woke up this morning and I sh*t a squirrel. I mean it. Literally. H*ll of it is, d*mn thing's still alive. So I got this sh*t-covered squirrel down there in the office. Don't know what to name it.

nate, i'm not a racist and i live in the south. i find that people who always feel the need to bring race into everything are either racists themselves, or have been victimized by racism and it has warped their perception of everything. if the latter has affected anyone here, i'm truly sorry for your experiences.

i get my info on campbells intelligence from all the info and talk about him before he was drafted. i remembered the low wonderlic store and, as noted in the link i provided to a wp article, other teams doubted his intelligence as well. there were considerable questions surrounding campbell - hence he was taken in the bottom half of the 1st round, even though his phyiscal attributes could have made him the top QB selected.

Review of the syllabus for a rocket science class reveals that "West Coast Offense" is not a topic covered. It is a basis, vocabulary, and architecture for offensive play-calling. Saunders' "timed" offense was (is) much more complicated and much less amenable to instinct, big play making, and "just get open." If there is a lag in the offense this season, it will be in the inability of the coach calling the plays to key into the rhythm of the players, not the players themselves.

i wonder whether it would be realistic to have a penalty for forcing a receiver out... the obvious intent of a forceout is to prevent the receiver from catching the ball in bounds. its one thing to try to keep the receiver from CATCHING the ball or maintaing posession. simply pushing the guy out of bounds while he's in the air seems to be a cheap "dishonorable" tactic. i've never liked it.

The only knock I remember about picking Jason Campbell in the first round (which mostly was a rap on Vinny and St. Joe) was the worry that he (Jason) might turn out to have been a one year (senior year) wonder, like the current knock on Devin Thomas (WR/MSU) ... that it was considered a "high risk" move, not a faulty move based on actual performance and/or potential.

So, a very similar completion percentage, but Campbell threw for more yards per game and had more TDs in fewer games.

Look at Hasselbecks stats after his 2nd year as the starter:
63.7 comp %, 3075 yards, 15tds, 10ints

And Campbells stats
60.0 comp%, 2700 yards, 12tds, 11ints

Again, a close completion percentage, but again Campbell threw for more yards per game. Hasselbeck had a better TD to INT ratio, but who knows where Campbell would have been after another 4 games.

What I'm trying to say is that there's no possible way for you to know that Campbell won't do well next season, that he is stupid, and that it will take him forever to develop. There's a lot more evidence, especially when compared to other QBs in their early years, that he'll go on to be, as Borat would say, a great success.

What I could anticipate as the primary downside of eliminating the force out rule is that defenders will have NO incentive to control the lust for mayhem. The chance of a whiff (and the resulting consequence where the offense actually has a gain) is eliminated where the only downside is the possibility of an interference call.

I remember that Boswell coined the term "LFM" and it was either about a missed interception by RockyMac or about Sean Taylor's near decapitation of McNair. On the latter one, McNair got the first down (because Sean Taylor had left his feet, was airborne, at about the level of McNair's shoulders, and whiffed). If that same type of defender unloads on a receiver looking to make a sideline catch ... with no possibility of being called for a force out, then the defender will not only force the receiver out, he will hurt the receiver.

Seth,
If you are throwing the ball to a guy who is covered close enough to the sideline, then don't throw it to him. Or at least realize that if you throw it to a point where the receiver has to go up for it, he could get knocked out of bounds before getting his feet down; in other words, not coming down in bounds. It was a sissy rule designed to increase scoring; nothing about protecting anyone. If they keep this rule in place what's to stop them from making a rule where if the receiver goes over the middle, catches the ball but gets knocked silly and drops it, they rule it a catch because the receiver "would have caught the ball if the defender hadn't knocked him silly"? Seems pretty right to me, if you don't come down in bounds, it ain't a catch; if you think he might get pushed out, throw it somewhere else.

greg(b), I follow Michigan State (and I know about the vast difference btwn John L. Smith and D'Antonio), but to the extent that's intended to be a distinction, Jason Campbell had four different coordinators in four seasons (though admittedly, I don't know whether those coordinators also called the plays).

If that same type of defender unloads on a receiver looking to make a sideline catch ... with no possibility of being called for a force out, then the defender will not only force the receiver out, he will hurt the receiver.
Posted by: dcsween | April 2, 2008 02:42 PM

You are talking about football, right? Maybe they should rule that receivers shouldn't be allowed to get hit if they catch the ball over the middle too. Those safeties really try to take their heads off. Might hurt somebody.

Let's beat a dead horse! The Chad Johnson armistice didn't last but a few hours. Even Isreal/Palestine wait a little longer than that!

Oh yeah, and why when I returned to the blog did it become a middle school atmosphere? I just had to break up a "yo mama" spat outside my door and then try to flee to a more intelligent (not so much football intelligence) atmosphere and see that people are being owned, phowned, sold, rented and God forbid... MAPPED!

dlhaze1, when it comes to the Skins' short receivers, I feel motherly ... good thing LaRon got snapped up by the Skins instead of anyone we play next year. [Its not like Roy Williams' horse collars would be any less obvious if he used them for a "force in" tackle ....]

greg(b), apart from the fact that I think WR is the most unslottable position in the draft (because college performance is so dependent on the college QB ... so the ability to translate that into a forecast for pro performance is a crap shoot), I think Thomas is a solid receiver, but would be more important to whatever team he goes to as a kick off return guy (maybe one of the best in the draft ... but I have some bias there). He didn't play at MSU for all 4 years; he enters this draft after his junior year and he was a junior college transfer.

If Sean Taylor were still alive, he could have very well have been Defensive Player of the Year next year. You thought no one wanted to catch the ball around him now. All receivers would not want have to run any kind of play that would put them on the sideline or Endzone with ST back there.

Thanks for the response up above, SETH. I GROANED when I posted it because I know it would just stir things up. I am from the South and do not consider myself to be a racist, but as I said above, it always puzzles me when a person with a Southern accent is assumed to be dumb -- football-dumb or otherwise -- and when that person is also black, well, that sets my antennae abuzzing.

I didn't put any stock in those reported Wonderlic scores, and I didn't put any stock in any scuttlebutt before the draft, and as I said above, I am still waiting for any evidence that Jason Campbell is not super-smart, football-wise, Mike-Wise or otherwise.

4th, my sentiments exactly. The difference btwn Nnamdi Asomugha (who know QB wants to throw near) and Sean Taylor is that, with Sean Taylor, no RECEIVER wants to BE near ... not just not wanting to catch the ball ... not wanting to be on the receiving end of a pass when Sean Taylor was in the vicinity.

So I'm sitting here with my sore thumb (Dorf! More ice!!! Pronto, pup!!!!) and I'm reading the transcript of Roger Goodell's press conference today. Because no detail is too insignificant to share with Redskins Nation, I pass this along. He was asked about the Redskins and Ravens hiring head coaches who've never been coordinators:

"I think it's great that we have that kind of diversity. There are great coaches not only in our league but obviously on the college level. I think the more exposure they get, the more opportunities they get, the better our coaches become. So the reality that they have to be a coordinator before they become a head coach - that's clearly not the case. I think obviously the more experience - the more opportunities you have to be in that leadership position - probably the better prepared you are to do that job."

" ... the possibility that no one cares to read what I have to say to begin with."

Posted by: Dorf | April 2, 2008 03:21 PM

Dorf, while this possibility has never given me one second of pause, be assured that the WaPo cares ... click on the full rules governing commentaries and discussions. My personal fave:

"6. For any content that you post, you hereby grant to washingtonpost.com the royalty-free, irrevocable, perpetual, exclusive and fully sublicensable license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such content in whole or in part, world-wide and to incorporate it in other works, in any form, media or technology now known or later developed."

Nothing says "care" to me like "perpetual" and "technology now known or later developed."

Speaking of diversity/Zornstrosity, would you be a dove and ask Sally J about her "rough, curry-comb haircut" comment? Something about that still sticks in my craw. What was she getting at? Why THAT particular detail?

SETH, I think you get my point, that I think it's grossly unfair that Jason Campbell played four really good years in a great program, a first round draft pick, waited patiently for his chance behind an inferior player, and since he got that chance has played well and even gotten better... and yet was saddled with this "low football IQ" tag somewhere along the way, a tag which has never been justified in any way, shape or form but which is regularly touted even by fans of his own team. It's a puzzle to me, dude.

Receiver, The ... signs a multi-year, multi-gazillion dollar contract ... when no other team is competing to sign him ... and does not take the Archuleta-like (formerly Arrington-like) pay cut in order to get himself out of his contract and free up his "rights" ... instead just cashes those paychecks and waits to get cut ... how is that not smart?

F the wonderlic or some scouts opinion of JC from 4 years ago. If the guy was that stupid he would not have been able to learn 8 offenses in 10 years or whatever it is. He wouldn't be able to remember plays called into his helmet right after he heard them. I can't remember who wrote it before but the mouth breather comment was probably right on the money.

SETH - If you don't have a Todd Collins jersey already you really should invest in one. Guy needed you in his corner the first 20 years of his career while he was rotting on the bench.

It makes me wonder whenever someone says "it's not about race". Even if you don't mean it to be, it sounds as if...

SETH...

You're not a GM so how can you conclude that his Wonderlic score is the foundation of your perception of JC's play.

Take it from a black man...(not saying that you are) but here's why your comment sounded racist.

It's obvious Todd Collins is a better QB in your eyes, but why...yes he played a great 4 games, but he's had a chance to watch the game for years. Jason Campbell played one full season and you assume he struggles due to lack of intelligence. Brett Favre is the all time INT leader (great player)...can he read defenses?...Everyone said Eli Manning struggled because he wasn't a leader, but no one questioned his intelligence...

Jason Campbell is the starting QB and he needs to produce...period. Coaches who know have said that his mechanics are slow which is a far cry from questioning his intelligence.

Hmmm, Cooley's slot in the zone looks covered. Tana-man needs another split second or two to free up....don't feel any pressure yet. ...Hmmm can't shake question 4 on that test. The third side of a right isosceles triangle...I know that one, what wrong with me? Hypothesis, no that's not it, sounds something like that. OH! time to release.

***close thought bubble***

Throws ball, then is slammed to the ground by a defender.

Announcer: "They've been trying to work on Jason's release, it's a little slower than they'd like it to be. Santana Moss makes the catch, but Jason Campbell really paid the price."

ricky and everyone else, his intelligence is the LEAST of all the reasons i mentioned for not liking JC. its just the one everyone pounced on because it was the easiest to argue i guess. I apologize if me not praising a QB who just happens to be black makes me a racist. i'm a racist for not thinking that all black athletes are the absolute best at whatever they do? don't be rediculous.

the fact that collins is not black has no bearing on why i prefer him. i prefer him because he's a veteran and very smart with the football and not fumble as much as campbell, who had the 2nd highest number of fumbles for all QBs last year. his mechanics are good and he will release the ball earlier than campbell will. this will dramatically reduce the fumbles. collins lacks a big arm, but he looked more confident reading defenses and making shart crisp throws and showed more decisiveness than campbell. do i think collins is our solution at QB for more than 2 years? NO. But i don't think Campbell will succeed in this offense. I think Zorn, a 1st time coach, would do better to secure his future here and provide long-term stability if he had a veteran his first two years, and then drafted a young qb of his chosing to be the QB of the future. I think that RIGHT NOW, collins is the better QB for this team. I think that LONG TERM, Campbell will not be as successful as a QB handpicked by Zorn, whatever race that person happened to be. I think Jason Campbell is to Jim Zorn what Patrick Ramsey was to Joe Gibbs - the other guys QB. its not like Zorn is inheriting payton manning like tony dungy did. Most new offensive head coaches want "their guy" at QB. its a fact of life, whether you like it or not.

these are just my opinions. Most of you think i'm wrong. Thats fine. No one has provided an argument that is solid enough to change my opinion. Campbell could do well in this offense this year and my opinion will be changed and i'll be just as happy as everyone else. Until i see evidence, i'm not changing my opinion. And unless we all see Campbell fail, i don't expect any of you to change yours.

I took a Wondelic sample test at one point. But I did wonder why people use it. I'm not sure how the "if a train left the station at 2pm ..." type of question provides any relevant information about a QB being able to read coverages. Seriously, the correlation just didn't register.

The real issue is how effectively does a QB process what he sees. That involves a lot of perceptual issues, not word problems from high school.

The ability to do a momentary glance to the left and know that there are six defenders on that side and know what that means to the play -- without having to count or even think, is far more important than any Wonderlic test.

Bill Walsh once said he can visualize all 22 players moving in his mind. I can't even imagine that.

The other thing a QB needs is to be a leader. Again, the Wonderlic test doesn't give much insight into that ... though I suppose it'd be hard to be led by a guy that you felt was an idiot. Campbell is clearly not an idiot.

Updating an ongoing story, Ed Werder, of ESPN.com, reports the trade that would send suspended Tennessee Titans CB Pacman Jones to the Dallas Cowboys is in jeopardy, according to a Cowboys source. The Cowboys are refusing to give the Titans a fourth-round pick in this year's draft and another pick in 2009. There are also disagreements over whether the Cowboys would reimburse the Titans for some bonus money owed to Jones. Both teams held detailed discussions last week without being able to resolve their issues. The deal could still be made, but there is still much work to do, according to a Titans source.

Receiver, The ... does not take the Archuleta-like (formerly Arrington-like) pay cut in order to get himself out of his contract and free up his "rights" ... instead just cashes those paychecks and waits to get cut ... how is that not smart?

Posted by: dcsween | April 2, 2008 03:43 PM

Receiver, The scored 28 on the wonderlic the FIRST time he took hit. Dude's a rocket scientist. Or a racket scientist.

I took a Wondelic sample test at one point. But I did wonder why people use it. I'm not sure how the "if a train left the station at 2pm ..." type of question provides any relevant information about a QB being able to read coverages. Seriously, the correlation just didn't register.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 2, 2008 04:18 PM

Zeke (Nate told me to call you that, since we can pronounce it)--Is it possible that your score was on the low end of the scale? I've heard you have to have a really high wonderlic score to be smart enough to understand why the wonderlic is relevant. Low enders, like us, well, we just don't get it and probably never will. But, we can still vote in national elections.

Matt Leinart scored pretty low, I heard, but he is at least smart enough to know that you should hold a beer bong higher than a blond girl's head so she doesn't have to suck her guts out. I saw the picture, myself on the Dirty.

In my head, I pronounce the zce... name "zhee zhest" (where "zh" is the sound of the second "g" in garage or the "s" in television).

Don Banks at si.com put up his thoughts about his chatter with the NFC East coaches at the meeting in Palm Beach. Feeling too lazy to link it, but I did cut and paste this little nugget:

â€¢ Trivia question, NFL fans: When expansion twins Seattle and Tampa Bay faced off about six weeks into their first season in 1976 at Tampa Stadium, who were the two starting quarterbacks in that game, which was billed the Expansion Bowl?

Answer: Zorn for the Seahawks, and a guy named Steve Spurrier for the Bucs. Those are the Redskins two most recent head coaches, skipping over Joe Gibbs' four-year return to the sidelines. By the way, visiting Seattle won that game, its first win in franchise history. The Bucs, of course, went 0-14 that season and were 0-26 before finally ending their historic losing streak.

Take advantage of this special playoff presale and get your tickets before they go on sale to the general public! This exclusive presale begins Wednesday, April 2 at 10am & ends Friday, April 4 at noon.

Jason Campbell scored a 28 out of 50 on his Sr. Wonderlic test. It shows he's a little better than average (QB avg is 24) at problem solving and certainly is not low. However, I agree the score has absolutely no correlation with a QB's football intelligence. It's just another statistic that can be used to differentiate draft picks.

You can think my opinion is idiotic; thats your right. scampbell, I don't know if you're an idiot because you havent said anything noteworthy enough to get my attention. i haven't noticed brown ever say anything i would classify as idiotic. he and greg are among those who consistently "bring something to the table" here. I can't say the same for you. unless you're talking about poolman, i dont think you can seriously say anyone that posts regularly here is an idiot.

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 12:56 PM

Oh I've posted here plenty, when there was things to talk about that were news worthy. Not a lot going on right now. Granted, I'm fairly new to the scene. Greg often has intelligent comments as do others that post here regularly. As for you and Brownwood, I rarely agree with anything that you say. Your fear of everything Jason Campbell is rather humorous and once in a while you come across with something intelligent. But those thoughts are few and far between. As far as grabbing your attention is concerned. that's gotta be similar to grabbing the attention of a ferret with ADD. Just wave something shiny.

Here's an example of something idiotic you said:

By the Time Campbell is likely to master this offense, Moss and ARE will be no more than 3rd WRs and cooley will be past his prime. I know i'm alone in this - but i'm not going to change my opinion until i see results on the field.

Posted by: SETH.LEMASTER | April 2, 2008 11:42 AM

But perhaps I'm being a little harsh, I've just reread the majority of today's posts and it seems that both you and Browny have put on your thinking caps (for the most part.) That hasn't been the case in the past. Rant over.

Jason Campbell scored a 28 out of 50 on his Sr. Wonderlic test. It shows he's a little better than average (QB avg is 24) at problem solving and certainly is not low. However, I agree the score has absolutely no correlation with a QB's football intelligence. It's just another statistic that can be used to differentiate draft picks.

Posted by: siris | April 2, 2008 05:13 PM

I think the front offices use it to know whether the guy can read his contract before he signs it. They're really excited to draft a low-wunderlicer because it saves a few million over the life of the contract. Worked with Arrington.

For a QB, I would think you would want to administer some sort of peripheral vision and reaction test ... like where they wear special goggles that track eye movement based on what is shown on a screen.

Don't they do something like that in the Armed Forces for personnel who are trying to become pilots?

If there is such a test, then I need to get into the talent evaluation business too. I also would monitor relative performance of QB draft prospects based on how well they do on a Wii.

I also would monitor relative performance of QB draft prospects based on how well they do on a Wii.

Posted by: dcsween | April 2, 2008 05:18 PM

And how do you make a trade-off between one who's great at the Wii, but gives himself a concussion slamming his head into a wall? There just isn't a perfect QB, is there, aside from the one who plays for the Patriots who's automatically perfect.

Thanks SETH for youe post. I guess the wonderlic has its place in the evaluation process. I think it's wrong to equate it to football IQ though. I think that IQ is better determined in the formal interview stag when these prospects are drilled about all subjects from the rooty to the tooty.

Frerotte sucks at Wii, but you can't blame the Skins' brass for drafting him b/c they tested him on the technology that was available, Atari's Pong.

Also, automatically perfect QBs don't go on a European vacation with Giselle Bunchin when the rest of the team is showing up for voluntary off-season workouts. Also, in college, The Todd owned the QB records that the automatically perfect QB could never touch. OWNED.

I never said you were a racist. Your comment was "Jason Campbell IS stupid". It was just your opinion that I disagreed with and your comment is something that has been said about black QB's so it's a sensitive issue. Your argument on your last post was actually more logical and could very well turn out to be true.

I scored a "720" on my SAT's...I guess I'm about as smart as a bing cherry.

What exactly does the Wonderlic tell us? JC did better than Bradshaw, Marino and McNabb and was one point below Aikman and Elway (who went to freaking Stanford). So warm up the bus for Canton. Let him prove himself on the field already. If he stinks it up over the next two years draft someone else.

Main Entry: gapÂ·er
Listen to the pronunciation of gaper
Pronunciation:
\ËˆgÄ-pÉ™r sometimes Ëˆga-pÉ™r\
Function:
noun
Date:
circa 1637
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): gaped; gapÂ·ing
1 a : to open the mouth wide : to open or part widely
2 : to stare with mouth open in surprise or wonder