They are labeled 'socialist' for political reasons, not because they are actually economically socialist, or communist.

Europe is not socialist either. National health care is not socialism. Hand-outs from the government is not socialism. Europe is more liberal than
the US, but it's still capitalist.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, created by workers in opposition to capitalism, the private ownership of the means of
production.

Socialism requires no government as it is an economic system, and the basis of classical Anarchism. In the 1800's the left split between those who
supported state socialism, Marxists, and those that apposed the state system who called themselves Anarchists, Libertarians, Libertarian Socialists
etc. They were still socialists, they supported worker ownership and apposed private ownership. Anarchism, as in socialism, was based on the concept
that 'property is theft', from the writings of Proudhon.

A largely self-educated worker whose incendiary ideas were more influential than those of Karl Marx during his lifetime, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon's
social and economic ideas have been a source of inspiration and debate since 1840. Mikhail Bakunin proclaimed "Proudhon is the master of us all,"
while for Peter Kropotkin he laid "the foundations of anarchism."

The consistent anarchist, then, should be a socialist, but a socialist of a particular sort. He will not only oppose alienated and specialized
labor and look forward to the appropriation of capital by the whole body of workers, but he will also insist that this appropriation be direct, not
exercised by some elite force acting in the name of the proletariat. Noem Chomsky, In Daniel Guérin, Anarchism: From Theory to Practice, 1970
[3]

There is only one kind of socialism, socialism is socialism. There are many different ways to implement it, from state control, Marxism, to
Anarcho-Syndicalism, worker control of labour through trade unions.

Rioting on the streets was more effective than WWII it seems as some buildings that withstand the third reich did not withstand it's own citizens.

Name one such building.

The majority of nations on your list are in Africa where, if we are to be fair, very few regimes last long except the most brutal and tyranical.
And how many of those regime changes have been aided by foreign governments?

Some would argue that there has never really been a truly socialist or communist state which if true would make your theory completely irrelevant.

China is not socialist nor communist. Even US or european countries have more socialist economies. Do you think that all those corporations have their
factories over there for the love of the proletariat?

Ever since chinese economic reforms began in 1980s, their system can be best described as a
state capitalism

But do you know what force has been helping to prop up Communist China?

Capitalism.

Yes, China has embraced a more capitalist approach in recent years.
But it is still governed by leftist ideals.
And some would say that that is more proof to the arguement that there has never been a truly socialist or communist state.

Unfortunately it is capitalism comes to the rescue of all failing socioeconomic failures.

And in how many countries has it also been the primary cause of so much pain, suffering, inequality and injustice?

It is most definately NOT a great cure all and the way forward for mankind if we are to start addressing some of the world's many ills.

Don't ask me what is...I'm not so arrogant to suppose I have the answer to some of the worlds problems let alone all of them.
But I do know it will require a level of openness, honesty and impartiality that very few, if any, currently possess.

Thats why the US is the leader of the free world.

I am not anti-USA - I try to call everything as I see it free from any pre-conceived viewpoint, (of course I fail to do so with ridiculous
regularity).
But it is statements like that which make the US and it's countrymen almost universally disliked and even despised.
And that you can't see that or understand that is further proof of just how isolated the US really is.

I disagree, China has never been communist. It has always been a capitalist dictatorship.

For it to be communist their economy would have no money, and all resources would be shared communally.

Those countries named themselves communist for propaganda reasons, not because they truly practiced communism. 'The people' back in the 1800's, and
early 1900's, were mostly in support of socialism and communism, which was a threat to the capitalists. Eastern governments appeased their populations
by using the term 'communism' in their name to make the people believe they were the party for them. A typical political tactic.

The west used those countries to demonize the terms communism, and socialism.

Both were saying the opposite, but both were lying to their people. All governments are right wing and move towards fascism. Right is pro authority,
fascism being the extreme, left is less authority, anarchism being its extreme.

Do people really think we would support socialism if it was what happened in China?

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Also to be fair. The list I posted were previously socialist/communist countries.

They are not a list of countries who are presently socialist/communist.

They have never been socialist/communist.

There has never been a truly socialist or communist country. The closest ever was in Spain in the 1930's when for two years the country was ran on
Anarchist Socialist ideals. Factories and farms were collectivized and production rose 20%. They fixed their city infrastructures. It failed
because they were at war with the fascists, and then the Spanish communist party sold out the Anarchists. It was the first build up that became
WWII.

The redistribution of wealth and power, the establishment of communes etc were all leftist, communist inspired policies.
Everything was initially intended to help China move towards becoming a truly Communist state.

That they lost their way somewhere along the path, as did the Soviet Union etc who also set out with the same intentions and also failed to establish
a truly Communist or even Socialist state, gives some support to those that claim Communism / Socialism will never work.

There will always be a bit of the Anarchist in me.
Unfortunately, like Communism and Socialism there is only one thing wrong with Anarchy - human beings.

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