DinkyBird wrote:We parked behind a visitor to the KNP once who played a lion's roar on his car speakers to attrack lion out of the long grass (we knew they were there). The two male lion did look up, eventually got up and came towards his bakkie and then moved off over the road. We got to see them - but I did not particulary like the fact that they were being teased.

LOL! Picture the scene. Circa 1984, H1 (?) between Satara and Tshokwane... lions on kill to m0er and gone in the distance. Cars pull up, and there's people sitting on door frames to get height, with the binocs and whatnot (big no-no). This one toppie gets so brave and climbs out, starts marshalling traffic, and pointing out the sighting. Some wag gets (rightfully) annoyed, so lines up his lion call on cassette, and lets rip. The ballie was back in his car SO FAST! And everyone was lagging so lekker at the toppie!

You've got to be d@mn unlucky not to see lion. Even on our dourest of trips (like day-trips when we've been down in the area for hockey tournament) we've seen lion.

My recommendations for must-see lion action...
- Satara / Nwanedsi road, with the plain and the river (as a barrier) making perfect lion kontrei
- LS / Tshokwane "back road" - saw a beaut of a black-mane there
- Saletjiepad (also good for cheetah)
- Between LS and Afsaal. One trip we ended up in the midst of a frightful row between a heard of buff and a pride of lion, in dense scrub. First the buff came charging past, dust and snot en trane and what-else I don't know. In hot pursuit came the lionesses. Seconds later, the buff got the hell-in, so the lionesses came charging back past at a rapid rate, followed by the angry buffalo. - My folks swear by the Phabeni - Skukuza road and surrounds; I've only used that entrance once, and the most interesting thing I ever saw was a tortoise.

Last trip: New Years in Skuks and SataraNext: ....................................................

we had a similiar (but less close) encounter about two weeks ago in KTP: together with two or three other cars we had spotted two young male lions about 150 m away, simply resting...all the cars were stopped and silent, except for the occasional chatter and camera clicks...all of the sudden one of the two started walking towards us...over the years I've had many many lion encounters, some of them (especially in Kenya and Tanzanie where the tour guides drive right up to them) at close range, so right then I was not frightened at all...however, this guy came closer and closer, all the while staring right at us...he stopped maybe two meters away, first marking his territory the usual way and then lying down...I tell you, that was the first time ever I felt shaken...trying to figure out if he might jump through the then still opn car windows

Jaco Venter wrote:When you look for trouble and find it, it is you that should bear the consequences. If I jump in front of a car and get run over, should we now revoke the driver's license to save other suicidal people?

True, but bare in mind that you and your family weren't split up by a government. You don't have to track thru a place like Kruger with all its dangers to go visit family and friends on the other side of it. You also don't have to escape illness, povery, starvation with your 4 year old daughter to keep her alive.

So I think your opening statement is somewhat harsh.

Jaco Venter wrote:Is there really a chance of a lion becoming a man killer, or do we humans only attach such a status to a animal we fear?

It is a proven fact, my friend. There are specialized human killers in Kruger. Lion prides that lie up and wait for humans to pass by as an easy meal. There are numerous reading material about man-eaters. Once a lion realizes what easy prey humans are there and lose their natural fear for them there are no turning back.

Jaco Venter wrote:Will a lion that killed an illegal crossing the border really come after tourists?

Most probably not, as lions are used to cars. But once outside your car and especially @ night you take your life into your own hands.

Jaco Venter wrote:Lions are bound by habitat not true. All this happens far from tourist action and camps, I cannot see that he now knows humans are easy prey and will leave his habitat in search of humans. That is rather advanced thinking for an animal born to survive and reproduce only.

All camps lie within a lion's habitat. I have slept outside my tent on numerous times and once a lioness came into Lower Sabie in search of food for survival. I was very lucky that night. I don't agree with this point of yours. Many people have had incidents with leopards and hyenas in camps. And they were alseep, so surely they were seen as food.

Jaco Venter wrote:For me it is only an economic decision to kill the animal. Will you visit a place knowing that a "man killer" is on the loose. But I am sure others will differ from my point of view.

I agree. Thats exactly why Kruger "hush" about man-eating incidents. Unless a tourist have witnessed something strange it will never come out. Also, remember that nature has an awesome way of cleaning up its mess. Hyenas, jackals, mice, ants leave very little evidence.

Had that little girl up in the Punda area not been found by tourists no one of us would have known about her ordeal.

Niceone wrote:1. Do these attacks still occur and in what frequency ? 2.Are such lions being destroyed as a result ? 3.Are people being killed that we dont know about just lying in the bush.4. Has there been any recent developments that anyone has heard.

I think you talking about Douw Grobler, who used to be head of vet services in Kruger. But I remember that Dr. Dewald Keet featured in the specific documentary where remains of a illegal immigrant was found near Croc bridge, surrounded by a pride of lions.

1. Read the stats on the last page of Loams's link. And yes, it still occurs.2. If they are caught red-handed, yes, they will be destroyed. Also known prides like the Punda pride got destroyed.3. Like I have said in my earlier post.

nature has an awesome way of cleaning up its mess. Hyenas, jackals, mice, ants leave very little evidence.

4. The last recent case I have heard of was the Croc bridge area leopard incident. But only because it had visitors as witnesses. Otherwise it will be "hushed" about. There are many other interesting developments... but which I don't want to comment about right now.

WOW ! Thank you so much Wildtuinman for all your great info and insight ! It is fascinating to hear all this information . Your personal experiences were particularly interesting. It certainly is a very interesting subject area.

Please, if you see it fit , please do contribute the other incidents which you said you dont want to talk about in your last post !
Obviously though I understand if this is not possible.

As with regards the name of the official in question , that is definitely it. I was most impressed with how he handled the situation in the show. Does he still hold that post ?

We saw a white lion cub at Ngotso dam many years ago and there have apparently been sightings by others as they have entered them into the sightings books. They were seen frequently at one stage and were certainly alive and well and living in Kruger. Whether or not the genes have been passed on is another question?

NO BAIL - JAIL AND NO TRADE IN RHINO HORN EVER![color=#FF0000]NO TO BUILDING OF HOTELS IN THE KRUGER NATIONAL PARK[/color24 Sept 2015 Hlane, 25-2 Burchells, 2-4 Elephant Plains, 4-7 Satara, 7-9 Pretoriouskop, 9-15 Ngwenya, 16 HluhluweThe addiction is fed once again

A white lion is the result of a recessive gene that occurs within the normal lion population. Two animals with the same recessive gene that mate, has a one out of four chance to have a cub with the recessive gene being the dominant gene.

The lions of the Timbavati are part of the gene pool of the greater Kruger National Park area. Because of historic reasons there may be more individuals within that specific area having the recessive gene, increasing the chance of a white lion in that area. However, because of the social system of lions, where all young males and even some young females leaves the clan, genes will be spread across the whole population.

In the past white lions were often removed from the wild and held in captivity. (The motif, merits and de-merits of this we will not debate at this point.) Even though this was done, there has been reports of white lion still occurring naturally in the Greater KNP. However because of its colour a white lion is more vulnerable (especially when young) to its enemies, and will find it harder to find food and thus is less likely to survive.

Because the white gene is a recessive gene, which will always be dominated by the other gene, white lions will always be a small minority in the population. Especially with the other factors already mentioned contributing to this.

A lighter coloured "normal" lion is not the result of a white lion and a normal coloured lion breeding. That is other genetic variations at work.