King Tut - Curious, why is this an atrocity, and why do you think it should be removed? Personally, I appreciate the history left behind by the first ascentionists, but that's just me. I'd like to hear your point of view.
May 23, 2016

Pure and simple: It is defacement of the rock and illegal. Bolts and such permit climbing and are totally fine. writing your route name on the rock is defacement and both potentially promotes defacement of indigenous petroglyphs in the area, promotes non-climbing related defacement of the rock by others and is disrespectful too. worse than spray paint and far more enduring. Route names and the trivial history of rock climbs belong in guidebooks, not scratched into the rock where they will endure for hundreds to thousands of years.

I have done dozens of first ascents myself and will never condone carving the route name into the rock.

This route name (which the FA party have every right to choose) is also a simple word play on a well known type of sunglasses...hardly some momentous words worthy of inscription in stone. Try to explain to a non-climber or the indigenous people this land was stolen from that you named your route after your sunglasses and felt that was worthy of defacing rock that belongs to them too.

If you want to name a route or note some history about it write a guidebook, create a Page on Mountain Project or post in the forums here or elsewhere. If it is worthy of enduring, it will endure.
Sep 2, 2016

Graffiti at the base of a route is completely different than bolts which are nearly invisible to the non-climbing public and DO rust out in a few short decades. wear damage to cracks from repeated ascents doesn't register with anyone other than climbers mostly and chalk washes away...

Conversely, if you put up graffiti like this by scratching through desert varnish it has historically been shown to last thousands of years, the worst sort of impact. Somebody's trivial word play on trendy sunglasses is not something we should be inscribing in stone to last thousands of years, unless we want future archaeologists to see just how vapid and shallow our climbing culture really was...and utterly lacking in respect for others or thought for future generations. This is not what a steward should do.

To defend graffiti in an area open to the general public is incredibly short sighted. That is why it is illegal. No one should decide that their message should pollute the environment.
Sep 2, 2016

Sorry I do get it....I live at the creek and it is why I moved there..Have you even been to the creek. To start 75% of climbs there have plaques. Most from the 80's when nobody gave a flying fuck about the environment. (Think whale skinned pink cadillac while eating a styrofoam Mcdonadls burger)

"scratching through desert varnish it has historically been shown to last thousands of years"---Battle of the bulge?? The inside and outside of this climb WAS varnish. Thanks to climbers its not there anymore.

Are you even aware of what varnish is or how it is formed? Have you done the research? Do you know what Biological Soil is, or cayanobacteria is? The making of a plaque in this are is the LAST thing that should be focused on. More so on the ungodly sensitive ecosystem of an area that get <10" of rain a year.

I'm not condoning graffite. But you may want to reconsider climbing if this really is a concern of yours. There are crags in this world with bolted on holds, drilled pockets, glued on holds, chipped holds. I know I've climbed them. There are much larger problems within the climbing community then this.

Also on SITLA (state trust land) of Utah...You can do whatever you want. Burn it, Rape it, Tag it, Destroy it. Its not BLM, NPS, NFS. You really can do whatever you want!
Sep 3, 2016

Its grafitti bro. Completely different from chains 50m off the ground. Chipped holds, chiseled pockets mean nothing to the general public. Titanium glue ins are virtually invisible to non-climbers. Non-climbers will never experience them. Take a non-climber to the base of a cliff some day. They don't even see chalk as un-natural and think its just some part of the natural rock. They cannot see rock climbs because their eyes are not trained to recognize the signs.

All this chicken scratching on the rock is "Bobby loves Sue forever" vapid and trite Graffiti.

All of the other climbing impacts you mention really affect climbers only. In a few years you could march a regular person to the base of Incredible Hand Crack and (if the chalk washed away) they would not notice anything amiss. They would not be able to tell you where the climbing impact was.

Grafitti however, is OFFENSIVE and that is all this is. It is never OK to write on the rock, especially in such a permanent fashion at ground level where it offends everyone with sense (meaning non-climbers too).

All of the stuff you go on about affects climbers only. Here's a clue: Indian Creek belongs to everyone. Graffiti affects everyone. Most, negatively.

You are condoning Graffiti and saying a cleaned pocket is worse...not even close. Just because something is not expressly illegal on State Trust Land does not make it right. Maybe they should learn to be stewards instead of treating the land like a garbage dump.
Sep 3, 2016

Simmer down now....This is soft sandstone, not your pristine valley granite that has it's own history, and more then enough carvings...all the plaques here will wash and wither away when you're dead. They won't last for 100's of years. If you know where to look you can still see that fire fall cant you!

I don't really have a strong feeling about carving names into small rocks at the base. It's way better than carving it into the wall. I'd bet if you picked up the desert vaurnet Rock and threw it down the hill as hard as you can no one would ever have known it was there. These little blocks at the base of routes were essentially mountain project before the Internet.
Sep 5, 2016