Timmy in that last clip....wow, it really exposed just how AWFUL Bret was on the mic and especially improved stuff. Also, I didn't realize that Shawn was actually taller and in that clip looked at least as thick as Bret.

Monty - I think it is hillarous how you much you hate Dusty, I kind of feel the same way about Shawn Michaels, he did have good matches but I felt he was over-rated. Always tried to be the good guy but soo many stories of a dark past...

Monty - I think it is hillarous how you much you hate Dusty, I kind of feel the same way about Shawn Michaels, he did have good matches but I felt he was over-rated. Always tried to be the good guy but soo many stories of a dark past...

Yeah, and I think that, unless you were actually there, you ought to questions certain stories.However, there’s a strong correlation between versions told even by HBK’s buddies.Now, if his FRIENDS are saying what a drugged up, trouble-causing junkie he is…and, that’s probably the euphemistic version!

Michaels does deserve a 12-page thread devoted to his performance alone.On the other hand, Ron could devote an ENTIRE BOARD to Shawn’s drug abuse, his history of getting into trouble, and pussing out every time he didn’t want to put someone over.If he has one more “career-ending” injury, I’m gonna personally go to Texas and puke on his living room carpet.

We’ve mentioned here several times before that Michaels’ fan base was incredibly strong, but very small.From a story line perspective, of course there aren’t many fans who would rally behind a champion who forfeits his title because he “lost his smile.”

The extreme faggotry and pussification of Shawn’s character are what prevented him from developing a larger following.

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As for Rhodes, I am at a complete loss.0 looks.0 mat skills.Sounds like a gay retard on the mic.Booked us the Shockmaster and picked polka dot ring-gear.

Yet, he was the “common” man, and is considered a legend.

At least Shawn put on incredible performances…when he wasn’t too busy looking for his smile.Rhodes never contributed a single good thing to wrestling in my opinion.I respect his success, but I’ll never understand how he did it.

Agree. I always go back to the fact that VKM was allowing the documentary to be shot and they caught everything. you KNOW VKM had final say on what was going to be allowed to be aired and for him to allow it says to me that 100% it was a work. No doubt in my mind.

I am a little surprised that Bret or Shaun haven't spilled the beans about it.

I'm not doubting this theory. But if this is true? Why did Bret always sound so bitter in every interview after it happened? Also if it was a work. Why did it take Bret so long to come back to the Federation?

Things just seemed to happen a little "too perfectly." Also, Bret was such an old-school traditionalist who protected the business.He went to such extreme measures to kayfabe over the years and PRIDED himself on portraying realism both in and out of the ring.

Bret is the last guy I would expect to “come clean” about wrestling, which is EXACTLY what he did in admitting that his promoter & boss changed the predetermined outcome of his match.

I will always maintain that Montreal was orchestrated as an edgy and interesting way for Vince to come clean about the business, which was almost necessary given the nature of the type of content he would soon produce: sex, kidnapping, firearms, necrophilia, etc.

As for the timeframe, I suspect that Vince & Bret (& Shawn) planned to revisit this storied rivalry until Owen’s accident.I believe THAT caused a GENUINE tension and animosity between the families and the WWF.Owen’s accident nixed any plans for Bret’s return - whenever it may have been planned, and I think there was eventually GENUINE BAD BLOOD between Bret & Vince, but not necessarily over the Survivor Series.

Your making me more of a believer and appreciate all of your posts. The whole thing makes sense to Timmy now. Can you explain the bad blood and what happened between the Harts and VKM. Or maybe start an Owen thread? RIP Owen.

Sure.I don’t want to derail your HBK thread, but since you asked:

A lot of this insight is from Bret’s book, as well as interviews he’s done over the years, but essentially, when Owen died, there was incredible tension and animosity that developed between the Harts, Pattersons (Owen‘s in-laws), and McMahons.As if that wasn’t bad enough, there was also contention between Hart family members.

Owen’s widow, Martha, was in disagreement with certain Hart siblings over how the lawsuit & settlement should be handled.Members of the Hart family formed their own little coalitions with some siblings siding with Martha.Bret and his parents tried to work with Martha, who’d even asked Bret to oversee certain things and act as a spokesman for the media - which, really pissed off the more jealous brothers & sisters.

Granted this is only Bret’s side of things, but it sounds like Martha really “played” certain Hart family members to get what she wanted.I think this is evidenced by the fact that once the proverbial dust settled, she pretty much cut all ties with the family.

Jim & Davey's wives tried to "work" with Vince during all of this in hopes of getting their husbands' old jobs back with WWF.Vince promised Bret access to his archive footage, which he later reneged on.

There’s a lot more details to this, and if you’re interested, I highly recommend getting a copy of Bret’s book, which turned out to be a lot better than I thought it would be.

The only thing I never liked about SCM was that the "get-ready" was one big telegraph.Basically, unless the opponent is Helen Keller, he'd know Shawn is coming.

I know the foot stomp and side-step charge were theatrical and dramatic, but I always preferred when Shawn hit the kick unexpectedly; the way Storm & Malenko could hit that half-crab, or even Benoit got into the crossface from any position.

It may seem foolish to desire realism in an admittingly "fake" sport, but wrestling fans undoubtedly like their fake action to at least look real.