Yeah, I'm staying out of this one, too. I'm still feeling bad about jumping on Corey last time. Though I will say, for those inclined to continue the debate (which is a bit early to be had anyway), that I found the article ("Barack Hoover Obama") in the July 2009 issue of Harper's insightful and relevant to the some of the opinions expressed here, as far as providing a bit of historical context and perspective.

President Obama has done great he passed Health care for all. People don't understand how huge this accomplishment is. This is as great as social security although many of us are too young to appreciate the significance of social security in our future. Yes, social security will be there in the future and now so will health care.

President Obama stopped the recession from turning into a depression. Very impressive.

President Obama saved the American Automotive Industry, with this he saved millions of jobs for all the other industries involved with the automotive sector.

Overall the President has done an impressive job, the recent vote is just an affirmation that voters have short term memory of the republicans destruction of our economy and that getting the economy back to normal will take a lot more than two years.

I know that if your unemployed all you care about is the President creating more jobs but voting for the the people that are responsible for your unemployment is just stupid.

>President Obama has done great he passed Health care for all. - NO he passed a health care bill for those who cannot afford health care, which is less than 30% of the population. So he has everyone paying for 30% of the populace. And it might get repealed with the new Republican Congress.

>President Obama stopped the recession from turning into a depression. Very impressive. - Really? What did he specifically do to stop that?

>Obama saved the American Automotive Industry. -What? Really? The only thing that can save the automotive industry is the industry itself. The US car companies have to realize that their products suck compared to the foreign competition. THey need to realize that they put themselves in their condition by sellign shit that no one wants. ALso the UAW is to blame for the demise of companies like GM. What has Obama done specifically to save the industry.

Aside from Health Care which will be a massive tax bill for everyone, he has done nothing. It is no wonder that the mid-term elections was a bloodbath for the Democrats. Guantanamo- still there, Homeland Security - worse than ever, Iraq- two years in and finally a potential exit plan, Economy- the numbers are getting better but the people are clearly not feeling it. Companies are too scared to expand and people are too scared to spend money because they know in the future they are going to get taxed ujp the ass (see Health Care). I do submit though, that it is not just Obama's fault. It is all Democrats. The Democrats had the White House and Congress, they should have been able to put through a slew of new regulations, policies etc. but they did nothing and with the last election they paid the price.

The answer to all your questions is money all the money that he invested saved the country from going into a depression. All that money will also be payed back with interests.

Everyone will pay for health care including that 30% you have a problem with. I know that it sucks that the most powerful country in the world has the audacity to make sure all of its people have insurance but guess what it is happening whether you agree with it or not. It will absolutely not be repealed because Democrats control the Senate and a majority of Americans are for the Health care law. Social security was suppose to be repealed, but it is still here. By the way I think it is disgusting that there are people like you out there that think not everyone should have access to medical care because of their financial status or that your taxes are too good to help that 30% of Americans.

US car companies have posted profits so someone is buying them, so much for your view on American cars.

Guantanamo, republicans made this nightmare. Homeland Security we haven't been attacked since yet under the republicans watch 3,000 Americans were murdered even though they had advance intel of possible attack. You shouldn't let the republican propaganda machine brainwash you it makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about.

THe money that Obama invested? What are you talking about? Does Obama have sone myswtery fund that we don't know about and he is bankrolling the country. When did Obama become a money kmanager. The US does not have a country fund so there is no cash investment that Obama can make. How is Obama going to pay back with interest? What specific investments did he make? Did he buy Apple stock?

US car companies are making money because they have been laying off people and streamlining operations.

The Republicans made Guantanamo but Obama said he would get rid of it. Two years in and it is still there. I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

>By the way I think it is disgusting that there are people like you out there that think not everyone should have access to medical care because of their financial status or that your taxes are too good to help that 30% of Americans.

Okay, people, I want to see claims backed by credible sources and fallacy-proof reasoning.

Just a couple pieces of fact-checking in the meantime:

Uninsured Americans in 2010 is closer to 20% (as opposed to 30%). This cobbled together from CDC numbers and other sources, though, full disclosure, long division was never my forte.

"The only thing that can save the automotive industry is the industry itself" and "Obama saved the American Automotive Industry."...apparently, this Bush fellow had a little sumpin'-sumpin' to do with this: [www.detnews.com] or [www.nytimes.com]

One of my fave spin-fests is that, when TARP looks bad, the Repubs claim it as something the Obama Admin is responsible for, the Dems point at Bush.

But whent it looks to have worked, the Dems are eager to take credit while the Repubs remind everyone it was the Bush Admin's doing.

Fuggin' hate both parties, en masse.

Watched Michael Moore's puerile spin-fantasy "Capitalism: A Love Story" the other day and watched him harp on TARP as the biggest rip-off ever to have occurred and never to be paid back. Wonder what he'd say, now? Nothing but misdirection, I suspect.

Obama's a black dude who got voted in as President of the United States. THAT is fucking amazing.

But it is what it is.

He's still a fucking politician--a privileged asshole that us poor fucks voted in to make decisions for us. But to be fair, we're the idiots who unfairly expect him to heal a collapsing system of capitalism. He's not actually a Magical Negro.

Nah, the issue there is we expected someone who appeared to be intelligent and well educated would make better decisions with the country than some half-drunk schmuck who couldn't even keep a baseball team's finances together. The only major good thing I've seen so far out of Obama's first two years is that he hasn't managed to get us into a war with a country we shouldn't have had anything to do with.

As a standard middle-class guy, his health-care stuff isn't going to help me - in fact it's likely to make health care more expensive for me and my family, despite the fact that we have a less than average family income.

Am I glad for the minor changes that the credit card and banking industries are now dealing with? I don't know - I guess. On the surface they look OK, but it will only be a matter of time before they find a way to fuck us all again. What they ought to do is make it illegal to have more than two credit cards and let the banks deal with that crapfest.

Right now, it won't matter much who gets in as president. Both parties are absolute a-holes, and people like me aren't being taken into account by either party. I'm socially liberal, but fiscally conservative. However, I want big business to have restrictions that force them to play nice, and I don't want anyone telling me who I can fuck or marry either.

I was a republican until the end of Bush's 1st term, when I realized they are a bunch of greedy rich fucks who want to destroy the middle class.
Then I was a democrat until I realized they are a bunch of twinkle toed inept pussies who couldn't pass legislation if they, um i don't know, controlled the house AND the senate.

machinesoldier Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was a republican until the end of Bush's 1st
> term, when I realized they are a bunch of greedy
> rich fucks who want to destroy the middle class.
> Then I was a democrat until I realized they are a
> bunch of twinkle toed inept pussies who couldn't
> pass legislation if they, um i don't know,
> controlled the house AND the senate.
>
> I am seriously thinking about saying fuck all and
> never voting again.

I'm only 21 and already just about think this way... show me the meaningful parts of our government today that are actually working towards improving my life and could give a shit what I thought. It's sure not either party, any Congress person, the President, or more and more of the Supreme Court.

Eh, voting for President is what people usually think of when they think of voting. Your local elections are a place where your votes really can do some good, and I never forget that, even when I'm completely disgusted with the Federal politicians. We just changed to a totally different arrangement for county government here after a number of FBI investigations into local government corruption - primarily Democrat I will note, though I usually vote that way myself. We just voted in the county government chairperson, and it was actually the mayor of my current home town. I felt bad losing him since he's done a world of good for our city, but he's capable and will likely do a good job for the county. So, my local vote did its thing - to put a guy with a proven track record for trimming budgets and waste from local government and rooting out nepotism into a seat of government that sorely needs a dose of that kind of medicine. Hopefully he's a help and not a hindrance.

No one could have saved the country from what has happened, and those claiming that "our plan could have" are liars without equal.

Those mainly responsible for the financial meltdown, taking an already fragile economy and overclocking it without so much as upgrading the fan, have gone largely unpunished (rewarded, in fact) while those (on both sides of aisle, mind you) working hard to try to fix things are being drowned out by fear-mongers and slickhaired power players so focused on the 2012 White House that they could care less what happens to the rest of us in the intervening two years. Some of them actually hope things get worse because they stand to benefit! I'm supposed to love on that?

And in the society at large, on one side you have a bunch of frothing xenophobes because when things get bad in a country, resources slim, foreigners and immigrants are reviled and persecuted.

And on the other side a bunch of IGMers ("I got mine, f you") who refuse to buckle down, cut back, give a little bit more and live through a tough time with some generosity and grace to help out folks in real need right now.

This could be a real heroic "let's all pull together" time for this country, when we'd look back and say "remember when things were screwed but we got together and made it happen?" America used to have those, you know. Whole generations of them. Instead we're acting like a bunch of teenagers whose mom just said "turn off the TV."

It's very revealing the firm stance that the republicans are taking on extending tax cuts for the top 2%.

Be a little more obvious about the only demographic you give a shit about. Oh, don't forget corporations that got you into office, because now they are considered to have the same rights as individuals for your campaign contributions. I still can't believe that passed under democratic control, and is ultimately what made them lose the house. Hell, why not amend that bill so that any corporation earning over 250k now gets a tax cut. I'm sure those tea partiers will still be pissed off because they don't even know what they are pissed about in the first place. All they know is Fox news told them to gather in this spot and be angry. Something about taxes being too high? I hate to break it to you chumps, but none of you make 250k. If you did, you would probably be edumacated, and wouldn't be standing in front of the Lincoln memorial with a homemade sign of Obama with a hitler mustache. Or standing anywhere near, or having any sort of association with a person holding a sign like that. Ok, you want to bitch about spending. Fair enough. How about two drawn out wars, one that we never should have started to begin with. But thank you, Bush, for letting us drive our SUV's for a few more years.