re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/17/13 at 3:53 pm to Jon Ham)

Frederic Wertham published Seduction of the Innocent in 1954. It was at best a reaction to McCarthyism and its like and at worst low-grade, fear induced, pop psychology. As well as stating the Homoerotic tendencies of Batman, it took Wonder Woman to task for bondage, submission, and sexual perversion(not that WW's creator William Moulton Marston was psycho-sexually pure). The Seduction of the Innocent can basically be viewed in context to its age of nascence. Where psychology and psychiatry is today is literally and figuratively years beyond where it was then. It was an academic approach to dealing with fear and trying to explain it. It was a suspicion of youth culture as comes every generation. They dug much deeper than they needed to. Comics were meant to inspire and entertain. End of epilogue.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/17/13 at 11:51 pm to Sentrius)

I think we'll see the it in cartoons and possibly movies, but Steve Trevor is on the rebound big time in comics. The new Justice League arc gave him a validity in the DC Universe he hasn't enjoyed in a long time. I actually liked him best in the Perez reboot as an "older brother" figure for Diana. But I do like his new role in the new 52. I think also the Lois Lane mythos is too strong for her to remain out of the picture forever. I like the pairing, but see it ascending to a deeper friendship, stronger than love between two people who could only truly understand each other. They do undeniably make a good team. I think we might even get a glimpse of it at the end of the Man of Steel. Gina Carano has been dating Henry Cavill for about 6 months or so in the public eye. Wonder where they met? I love Gina Carano, but she's totally wrong for Wonder Woman. Would make a kick arse Black Canary right down to the blonde wig.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 8:32 am to Jon Ham)

quote:I didn't get that either. I'm guessing the point they were trying to make was that Joker wears makeup, dresses flamboyantly, and he and Batman are obsessed with each other and Batman wears skin tight suits hiding his identity. Both are in the "closet" with the hiding of their identities, and instead of choosing to come out and reveal who they are they choose to hide and take out their inner frustrations on each other. That's the best guess I have.

I read it as Joker is "out" while Batman is still "in". And that is the source of their conflict. Batman is fighting to suppress his sexuality, while Joker is trying to out him.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 9:00 am to Wayne Campbell)

Is it possible? Of course it is. If you place any superhero in the "real world", they are all violent sexual deviants (or mostly). And I think some of the writers of the comic certainly ran with that idea while others did not (though it's worth pointing out that Frank Miller made Robin a girl in Dark Knight Returns). I don't think that means he IS gay, but it is certainly a possible reading of the book.

Though the gay metaphor is not as on the nose as it is in, say, the X-Men. Which is almost explicitly gay.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 9:51 am to Baloo)

quote: I don't think that means he IS gay, but it is certainly a possible reading of the book.

Anything is a possible reading of anything, hence is the eternal cycle of academia.

And is also what makes all of it ridiculous.

quote:Though the gay metaphor is not as on the nose as it is in, say, the X-Men. Which is almost explicitly gay.

Is all about Race and the differences of groups, not individuals. "Gayness" or the exploration there of is almost always explored in the context of the singulars relation to the many. X-Men is solely devoted to the differences in groups, not individuals, which makes it more about race, nationalism, and tribalisnm. Self-admittedly so.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 9:58 am to Freauxzen)

X-Men was defined by its authors as a gay metaphor as well as the explicit racial MLK/Malcolm X metaphor of Xavier and Magneto. Hell, they even had their own HIV virus. I see no reason to discard the gay reading of the X-Men because it is also a racial civil rights metaphor. It's no accident that mutant powers are latent until adolesence.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:41 am to Baloo)

To state the incredibly obvious: Batman is a fictional character, so there is no "real" answer. Almost as incredibly obvious is that the vast majority of people who write, draw, etc Batman do not intend him to be gay. He is a crimefighter and Robin was introduced to appeal to kids which were the primary audience for comics in the old days. The panels people show on occasion to show him acting "gay" were drawn for a primarily young audience who at the time probably didn't even know what "gay" meant. Not only that, but Batman has had several girlfriends/lovers/ etc through the year including his fiance Julie, Vicki Vale, Silver St. Clout, Talia al Ghul, Catwoman, etc.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 3:02 pm to Baloo)

quote:X-Men was defined by its authors as a gay metaphor as well as the explicit racial MLK/Malcolm X metaphor of Xavier and Magneto. Hell, they even had their own HIV virus. I see no reason to discard the gay reading of the X-Men because it is also a racial civil rights metaphor. It's no accident that mutant powers are latent until adolesence.

Some authors, late in the series. Not the beginning. Sure, it was about Civil Rights, and that was later used to include everything, but it started about race.

re: Is it possible that Batman is gay? (Posted on 2/18/13 at 3:09 pm to Freauxzen)

Do not believe Wertham.

And do not believe Frank Miller. He's flipflopped on his views on superheroes over the years, saying anything to be outrageous.

Batman and Robin were created to be non-sexual heterosexual characters and have been adopted by the gay community (and there's nothing wrong with that).

Over the years they've been handled by hundreds of creators who have shaped them as they desired. I have no doubt that at some point a creator or two thought to put a little gay innuendo into the mix.

In the simpler 30's and 40's, you didn't have to defend having a man and boy living in the same house. Nowadays you couldn't introduce a sidekick like Robin without answering a lot of questions about the true relationship of the two characters.