Well, nobody seems to be answering here, but a few people in the chat were familiar with it.

I like some of the ideas... like the lesson progression... but I think they go WAY overboard on the detail... throwing such a vast amount of information and even using IPA pronunciation stuff... all in your very first lesson. Some people might really like that (as at least one of the people in the chat did), but it wouldn't be for me. I'd like to build up to that point a little. Get some of the very basics under my belt first before I had to learn IPA pronunciation.

Either way, it's definitely got me thinking about ways to better organize lessons. Like having a progression to move a student from beginner up to intermediate... and while still offering a progression after that, making it clear that pretty much once you've reached that level you can jump around if you'd like.

Definitely a very impressive piece of work, especially from a 17 year old non-native. I've added it to my bookmarks, as I'm sure others have. Thanks for the heads up.

I've missed this site because it's isn't linked into any portal, at least that I've seen. Only a post in Tae Kim's forum pointed it out. I'm an info glutton. As long as there are tools at hand I'll stoke the forge, as long as there's a bottom in the deep end, I'll plunge in. I've only looked at one lesson so far, the one for と, but I like the full battery of information it provided, like when and how it's used as an adverbial suffix. Really impressive work for a high school kid. The net is rife with sites that provide a basic level of instruction: a couple hundred kanji, basic grammar, survival phrases. I'm sure it's costly to develop features to an advanced level, and you're right in that the more information brought the harder it is to organize into a tight curriculum, but I feel that would separate a site from the herd and keep traffic coming. Thanks for the input!

Oh it's not that I'm against the depth... I think it was just too much right off the bat. I'd love to see it start off a little more lightweight, and build on that, or have a link to "further information" at the bottom of a lesson to expand on the material covered in it etc.

That's actually something I've been thinking about for here on TJP. A way to build off of something like the Fast Track 100 Grammar Points... tying in expanded information where relevant, creating a progression from there to more complex materials etc.

It's just hard for me to tackle something like that myself since I'm only an upper beginner... so I basically have to look at a wealth of existing material... grasp it enough to try to organize it, and then have more knowledgeable folks give their feedback on how to improve on it and help expand it etc.

So I really do like Imabi and the depth of information he's providing, it's just daunting to have so much stuff thrown at you as you're first dipping your toes in the water so to speak. I mean seriously... right at the very beginning of the very first lesson you're already expected to know about "diphthongs", IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet), etc... this is like something written for a college level linguistics student... not the very first lesson of the beginner level of a Japanese language learning course. That's the distinction I was trying to make.

It's great for information junkies... especially those already quite knowledgeable in these areas (and I'm basing that from only glancing over a few lessons), but I think it's total information overkill for your average beginning student.

While I agree with Phreadom that is too much for the average Japanese learner, I think it's obvious that the owner is targeting the "hardcore" Japanese learners, the serious and diligent learners who plan on using Japanese more than just for watching anime and the like. In that regard, I think Imabi will be useful site for a lot of learners, especially since there are already plenty of sites for the average beginner.

Not exactly true. IPA is only mentioned for as exact as possible representation of pronunciation and is not mentioned again until way over 100 lessons after it is talked about. Expected to know what diphthongs are? I'm sorry but there is a table of definitions. Plus, when it says "not", that pretty much means don't worry about it. For one, expected is not a good word to choose, introduced is. I may very well move IPA way higher up in the lessons, but I don't think that your analysis of my approach is valid. Well, I've definitely dealt with beginners, and if it is the biggest problem that I have found is that they're told one thing and then have to go to the same thing again months later to get more into detail. It's like this:Say you have every particle, conjugation, speech modal, etc. all on a line. Like a dot plot, each one has it's given amount of usages. Most places fill in one or two dots for one item here and fill in a lot of single dots on the line for phrases and neat practical stuff, but every other semester they have to return to the big ones--particles and what not--and find out that what they learned was not exactly the 'big picture'. I had this one friend that eventually quit Japanese because everything he saw out in the open was something he hadn't learned yet fully. His main issue was actually the particle to. He only knew it as and because that's all most beginner's books ever get to. Plus, my site does not suit people below the age 18 nor should it. Also, if you skip around lessons, you are missing the entire framework I've built in into the curriculum.I guess I will move IPA out to Lesson 124. However, say like for the particle lessons, I, especially in the first ones, tell the reader to only worry about the usage of the particles, not the entire specificity of the syntax within the sentences. If you skipped to the lesson about the particle to, you missed a fourth of the entire beginner's curriculum to that point. I must also add that I've significantly shrunk the beginner's lessons in terms of material significantly this year-overall that is.

Well, like TJack said, and Imabi-san himself... it's targeted toward people who want the whole picture. And a few of the people I know who are using the site like it specifically because it goes into that much depth.

Plus, as many people have pointed out, there's a wealth of beginner oriented sites out there... we need more sites that really dig into the advanced stuff and deeper information etc.

今日さん、教えてください！

(I wasn't trying to rag on the site... I happen to really like it. I just thought it was information overkill to me personally. But given that it's not really targeted toward more basic learners... and only toward adults who really seriously want to dig into it... it seems to do what it aims to do. So me comparing apples to oranges kind of misses the point I suppose.)

So long as you didn't misunderstand my intent that's alright. I have since, though, changed Lesson 1 to make it a more formidable beginning. I, though, don't think I should curtail any structure to the rest of the curriculum. I am always willing to help tutor people with my curriculum. I'm actually currently helping a friend now. So, more people are definitely appreciated.

I kind of get overprotective towards comments about my site because its site hits are so unstable due to its relative newness on the Internet. You see, it's relatively easy to find every comment about it online due to its unique name. So, I have to do my duty to make sure nothing inaccurate is being said. I don't think that's anything unfair to do, do you?

I just wanted to comment on a couple things on your site IMABI. In my personal opinion, I think it would do well to specially mark the important things out of each lesson because, from my standpoint and many others (most likely), it's hard to find the really relative stuff when you're thrown a wealth of information in your face. Maybe bold the very important points? I think what you did with your site was really great to tell the truth. Anyway, that's just my personal opinion.

In quite a few instances very crucial things to understand are indeed underlined or bold. I've been actually having that on my to do list and am doing it even more so in the lessons I'm currently typing up. Now, entire sentences I would go away from bolding because for some reason that looks weird. As many lessons with a lot of points are kind of already tiny, bolding would only be limited to said lessons with lots of texts. It would have to be on a case by case basis if you know what I mean.

I can easily prove I'm the master of IMABI. I'm the only one that knows what Lesson 134 looks like, and when certain updates are to occur...which is normally when I overcome my ironically lazy nature. And, I think I've already proven it because I personally changed Lesson 1 with your suggestion. I haven't added monitors because no one has bothered to become one. It would really help me though.

This place reminds me a lot like unilang, only difference is that this place is exclusive to Japanese. I don't want to draw too much attention to IMABI, although it would be nice for there to be an online discussion about it somewhere other than the site itself.

I applaud you in your industry, I agree with your philosophy of intense and comprehensive curricula, and I plan to visit your site frequently. I've started your lessons, sequentially, paying particular attention to any gaps in my present knowledge. To you I say well done!

One thing, though. In lesson 14, I think the example should be

雨が降ってきたかと思うともう止んだ。ame ga futte kita ka to omou to mou yanda.

Unless you meant snow instead of rain. And the ka is missing.

Last edited by Hektor6766 on Sun 10.02.2011 7:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.