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Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

Matus,

I read with interest your list of various camera's and methods. I do agree that the modified slides can be fussy and hard to manage.

However, after looking over your list, I contend that you have the closest thing to what you are looking for in your possession already. Just leave out the need for working with roll film... less emulsions anyway and mask a piece of ground glass for a 6X12 from the middle of a 4X5 sheet:

1) no managing the cut dark slides
2) consistent 6X12 exposure
3) movements, which you are already familiar with.
4) The film holder mechanism is familiar, and you can use readyloads/quickloads.
5) The waste is negligible.

Otherwise, it appears your option, if you persist in movements, is to have a 4X5 customized to a rollfilm back, making it a single purpose camera, and expensive to boot, I suspect.

If you forego the movements, then I offer one other suggestion that I have done. Shoot with a Fuji GM670 or GW670 and stitch with Pano SW, for 6X12, or shoot two images with the GW690 and scan stitch for 6X17.

Yes, I suspect my desire for one-off cameras (call that obsession) has led me down many paths where the roadblocks have been cost of the project. Hence I often succeed in jerry rigging something quite less expensive to get the same result. For me there is much pride in making cost manageable and getting the project done. When I buy the obsession driven custom model, the pride of ownership of a one-off model is less rewarding, AND I am broke to boot.

Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

- toyotadesigner -
I have to admit that that wold be probably the best approach to get the largest neg possible with hand-holdable camera. I will probably get the GW690III at some point to try it out. Price wise it is on the reasonable side compared to other modern medium format rangefinders.

- Old-N-Feeble -
I completely agree - there is (obviously) not large-enough market for such a 6x12 camera.

- David -
Thanks, the weight of the Sinar Zoom holder would be great to know. Concerning the 8x10 - you indeed have a point. But after my experience from New Zealand the 4x5 was often simply too much - although my wife was indeed patient with me, often it was slowing us down too much. For shooting 6x12 landscapes here in the area or on shorter trips the 4x5 camera with a 6x12 back is probably the best solution, but for long travel it seemed to get too much in the way of traveling and exploring.

- Kuzano -
Indeed - on shorter trips I can just shoot 4x5 film and crop later (masking the ground glass is probably a good idea) - I do not shoot that much of film to be hindered by the cost (and indeed that is the way I will start to shoot (as soon as we will finish our new apartment).). And for the long trips (as mentioned above) - I would probably get some 6x9 camera and enjoy the trip.

I am actually slowly coming to the point where I realize, that I try to get two properties that exclude each other - on one hand a relatively light and easy to use 6x12 camera, on the other hand tilt movement which per definition requires care to be done properly. But it all seems so doable sitting at home on a sofa after dinner

Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

Originally Posted by Matus Kalisky

- David -
Thanks, the weight of the Sinar Zoom holder would be great to know. Concerning the 8x10 - you indeed have a point. But after my experience from New Zealand the 4x5 was often simply too much - although my wife was indeed patient with me, often it was slowing us down too much. For shooting 6x12 landscapes here in the area or on shorter trips the 4x5 camera with a 6x12 back is probably the best solution, but for long travel it seemed to get too much in the way of traveling and exploring.

What I decided to do for travel when we had a baby and suddenly had a lot of extra stuff to carry was to get a 2x3" Technika. It could do most of what my 4x5" Technika could do, sacrificing the format size of course (also the 2x3" Tech V doesn't have front swings, but that's manageable in a couple of different ways), but the whole kit took up about half the space, since I could shoot rollfilm, use smaller lensboards and smaller lenses, filters, shades, etc. The other attraction of rollfilm is more convenient film processing.

Ah yes... ADP... After Dinner Photography.

Originally Posted by Matus Kalisky

I am actually slowly coming to the point where I realize, that I try to get two properties that exclude each other - on one hand a relatively light and easy to use 6x12 camera, on the other hand tilt movement which per definition requires care to be done properly. But it all seems so doable sitting at home on a sofa after dinner

Usually done in front of my computer

One of the camera's I have been tempted to introduce into this discussion, but think of it as an also-ran....

The Fuji GX680...

Movements, but only 6X8. And I don't think the movements would coincide with scan/stitch very well. Lot of them out there and a goodly array of lenses... and Fuji EBC glass at that. Have actually wondered about those lenses on the front standard of a very short 4X5, like a Gowland Pocket or such. After ownership of 4 Pockets, you'd think one would give up, but they are such great toys, at 3 pound and less. I'm even a great fan of Toyo 45CF's but only 3 so far. Perhaps one more to get them out of my system.

I get a lot of mileage out of my Fuji 6X9, including becoming very satisfied with stitching up to 3 images to 6X24, with careful management of the camera on the tripod... level and align like.

Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

Originally Posted by toyotadesigner

Bob, what is the price range for the 612 PC II (with shift I think), a roll film back plus a 65 mm and 125 mm Rodenstock lens? AFAIK it's around 10.000 Euro or 13.000 US$, and still doesn't offer any tilt option.

No, but a TK 45s with a Techno Rollex back gives shifts + tilts + swings front and back. Rodenstock does not make a 125mm lens.

Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

My Sinar Zoom (I) is 970g without film.

The Zoom II should be similar. The main difference is that instead of the adjustable mask acting also as the darkslide, it has a traditional darkslide, which would be a good thing not only to prevent light leaks but to protect the adjustable mask, which seems a bit fragile. I keep it in a soft pack (which normally holds 3 Grafmatics) with a sheet of mat board on one side to protect the metal curtains.

Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

Matus,

I've been working a lot with 6x12, 6x17 and 4x5 using different configurations, but on your case I'd would think about the Shen-Hao no-foldable 4x5' and the Horseman 6x12 back. I think my Shen-Hao PTB is pretty much light and the Horseman back doesn't add that much. This way you may have all the tilt you need and the benefit of extensive shift, which I think is most important on panoramic format.
Besides that, changing lens is pretty easy and also making vertical shots while preserving the same movements.

Re: 6x12 with movements (tilt)

Matus, if you should decide to invest into a Fuji 6x9 (either the GW 690 with the EBC 3.5/90mm or the GSW 690 with the EBC 5.6/65mm), always ask the seller about the figure on the counter at the bottom of the camera. It is a 3 digit counter. The number has to be multiplied by 10 to get the current number of shots made with the camera. Anything below 100 is ok, anything over 400 is risky, because at 500 (=5000 shots) the camera should be serviced (CLA). Depending on the use (and abuse) of the camera, you can keep shooting up to 999, then the counter will jump to 000 again and at 020 the camera finally will stop functioning.

I am just mentioning it because currently you can find a lot of 690 models at ebay from Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan) for relatively low prices. However, these sellers don't disclose the number on the counter.

There is no difference between the 690 series II and III, except that the series III features a bubble level above the finder and a rubber coating. The III is made of the same rock solid metal as the series II.

I have an article about the Fujis in my blog here if you want to know more about these cameras, with lots of links.