Just finished The Rite by Matt Baglio. An excellent book, written objectively and very theologically supported. But I'm afraid the movie will disappoint.

Selam

btw, is it a fairly quick read?

Yes. Of course I am a slow reader, because I am always underlining things and making notes in the margins. But it is very readable and does a good job balancing the true accounts of exorcism with theolgical and spiritual truth.

One thing I really wish is that there were some modern works like this written from an Orthodox perspective.

Just finished The Rite by Matt Baglio. An excellent book, written objectively and very theologically supported. But I'm afraid the movie will disappoint.

Selam

btw, is it a fairly quick read?

Yes. Of course I am a slow reader, because I am always underlining things and making notes in the margins. But it is very readable and does a good job balancing the true accounts of exorcism with theolgical and spiritual truth.

One thing I really wish is that there were some modern works like this written from an Orthodox perspective.

Selam

Thanks, I picked it up per your suggestion

You might be interested in An Exorcist Tells His Story by Gabriele Amorth and Nicoletta V. Mackenzie. It's by the Vatican exorcist and is absolutely fascinating. But, of course, Catholic, not Orthodox.

BTW, I've been told that it isn't "healthy" to display too great an interest in demons and exorcism, that it actually tends to attract demonic activity to us. Any thoughts on that?

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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

Just started reading Anastasia: The Last Grand Duchess from the The Royal Diaries book collection, written by Carol Meyer, published by Scholastic. It's a "diary" of Grand Duchess Anastasia's life, from 1914 up till two months before her death. I read this as a child and loved it, so I'm reading it again.

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Psalm 57:2 "I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for me."Psalm 62:1 "Truly my soul silently waits for God; From Him comes my salvation."Psalm 59:9 "I will wait for You, O You his Strength; For God is my defense."John 11:35 "Jesus wept."

Just finished The Rite by Matt Baglio. An excellent book, written objectively and very theologically supported. But I'm afraid the movie will disappoint.

Selam

btw, is it a fairly quick read?

Yes. Of course I am a slow reader, because I am always underlining things and making notes in the margins. But it is very readable and does a good job balancing the true accounts of exorcism with theolgical and spiritual truth.

One thing I really wish is that there were some modern works like this written from an Orthodox perspective.

Selam

Thanks, I picked it up per your suggestion

You might be interested in An Exorcist Tells His Story by Gabriele Amorth and Nicoletta V. Mackenzie. It's by the Vatican exorcist and is absolutely fascinating. But, of course, Catholic, not Orthodox.

BTW, I've been told that it isn't "healthy" to display too great an interest in demons and exorcism, that it actually tends to attract demonic activity to us. Any thoughts on that?

Yes, the book emphasizes this very point, iting C.S. Lewis's famous maxim from The Screwtape Letters: "There are two equal and opposite errors that the devil wishes to drive us into: the first is that he tries to convince us that he does not exist, the second is to foster an unhealthy interest in him."

The book also quotes a lot from An Exorcist Tells His Story. I would like to read it.

As to what attracts demonic activity, that's a good question. We know that sin attracts demonic activity, but we also know that the closer we grow towards God the more intensely the devils assail us. The Saints bear witness to this. So, according to these things, one might conclude that it is best to live a moderate life, avoiding extreme sin and avoiding extreme holiness. But surely that's not right! For Our Lord said, "I wish that you were hot or cold, but because you are lukewarm I shall spew thee out of my mouth." [Revelation 3:15-16]

I think that what is meant is that we should not live in perpetual fear of the devil, asciribing every sin and illness to him. We know that he has already been defeated by the Cross, and as long as we are availing ourselves of the Sacrmental life of the Church, then we do not need to cower in fear of demons. Yet, we should always be aware that a life of sin can indeed open the way for demonic possession. One quote in the book that I loved was this: "Don't be scared of the demon, be scared of the sin." [Father Bamante]

Selam

« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 08:06:05 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

I think his chapter, "The Grand Inquisitor", from The Brothers Karamazov, the most powerfully insightful glimpse into the darkness of fallen human nature that I've ever read. The story within a story focuses on the three temptations of Christ while He was in the desert and looks at how they're the three most insidious temptations all of humankind has always faced. The freedom Christ offers us is far too much of a burden for many, so they'll gladly trade their freedom and become slaves to another merely for the sake of earthly bread (turning stones to bread). An evil generation is always looking for a sign, even to the extent of following after false signs and demonic counterfeits (the temptation to jump off the high building in the hope that God would miraculously catch Him before He hit the ground). Man will always strive after unity, even if this is a false unity under the tyrannical rule of the evil one (the temptation to worship Satan in exchange for rule over the kingdoms of this world). Ultimately the Inquisitor seeks to have Christ burned as a heretic because he wants to wrest all authority from Him and set up the Roman church's worldly rule of earth's peoples without reference to Christ. (No intent on my part to preach any anti-Catholic polemics, since I'm merely relating what Dostoevsky wrote in his novel)

Maybe not prophetic of anything the Roman church would soon do, but it sure strikes me as prophetic of what the Bolsheviks would do to Dostoevsky's Russia several decades later.

I think his chapter, "The Grand Inquisitor", from The Brothers Karamazov, the most powerfully insightful glimpse into the darkness of fallen human nature that I've ever read. The story within a story focuses on the three temptations of Christ while He was in the desert and looks at how they're the three most insidious temptations all of humankind has always faced. The freedom Christ offers us is far too much of a burden for many, so they'll gladly trade their freedom and become slaves to another merely for the sake of earthly bread (turning stones to bread). An evil generation is always looking for a sign, even to the extent of following after false signs and demonic counterfeits (the temptation to jump off the high building in the hope that God would miraculously catch Him before He hit the ground). Man will always strive after unity, even if this is a false unity under the tyrannical rule of the evil one (the temptation to worship Satan in exchange for rule over the kingdoms of this world). Ultimately the Inquisitor seeks to have Christ burned as a heretic because he wants to wrest all authority from Him and set up the Roman church's worldly rule of earth's peoples without reference to Christ. (No intent on my part to preach any anti-Catholic polemics, since I'm merely relating what Dostoevsky wrote in his novel)

Maybe not prophetic of anything the Roman church would soon do, but it sure strikes me as prophetic of what the Bolsheviks would do to Dostoevsky's Russia several decades later.

Indeed. A wonderful book. We read "The Grand Inquisitor" in my college Literary class, and I liked it so much I immediately went out and bought The Brother's Karamazov. I really need to read it again sometime. But you are right, "The Grand Inquisitor" is prophetic and applicable to many of the socio-political movements that have done more harm than good. Even today in America, the same three things are elevated as the panacea for all human ills. People continue to look to the government to feed them, unify them, and liberate them from the agony of moral choice. Dostoevsky was a very prophetic writer.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

I haven't read this new version yet, and it was probably 8 years ago that I read the Not of This World version, so I've probably forgotten quite a bit. This book has had a huge impact on my priest since he read it a year ago... maybe there'll be a similar result with me

I stopped reading this part way through, but I just started it again... hopefully I'll finish this time! I seem to have problems getting the entire way through books these days

« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 08:33:16 PM by Asteriktos »

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"Christian America is finally waking up to what fraternities and biker gangs have known for years: hazing works!"

I haven't read this new version yet, and it was probably 8 years ago that I read the Not of This World version, so I've probably forgotten quite a bit. This book has had a huge impact on my priest since he read it a year ago... maybe there'll be a similar result with me

I stopped reading this part way through, but I just started it again... hopefully I'll finish this time! I seem to have problems getting the entire way through books these days

It's a pretty huge book, so I don't think anyone can fault you for that! It took me about 8 months to read all of it and I loved it. Very inspiring.

In Christ,Andrew

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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

I think his chapter, "The Grand Inquisitor", from The Brothers Karamazov, the most powerfully insightful glimpse into the darkness of fallen human nature that I've ever read. The story within a story focuses on the three temptations of Christ while He was in the desert and looks at how they're the three most insidious temptations all of humankind has always faced. The freedom Christ offers us is far too much of a burden for many, so they'll gladly trade their freedom and become slaves to another merely for the sake of earthly bread (turning stones to bread). An evil generation is always looking for a sign, even to the extent of following after false signs and demonic counterfeits (the temptation to jump off the high building in the hope that God would miraculously catch Him before He hit the ground). Man will always strive after unity, even if this is a false unity under the tyrannical rule of the evil one (the temptation to worship Satan in exchange for rule over the kingdoms of this world). Ultimately the Inquisitor seeks to have Christ burned as a heretic because he wants to wrest all authority from Him and set up the Roman church's worldly rule of earth's peoples without reference to Christ. (No intent on my part to preach any anti-Catholic polemics, since I'm merely relating what Dostoevsky wrote in his novel)

Maybe not prophetic of anything the Roman church would soon do, but it sure strikes me as prophetic of what the Bolsheviks would do to Dostoevsky's Russia several decades later.

Insightful! I'll have to re-read it, I think. Amazing book. While it's been a few years, the other scene that really left an impression on me (aside from the Grand Inquisitor) was the one where intellectual and skeptic Ivan and faithful Alyosha discuss the reasons for and against faith in God. Dostoevsky goes deep! Right into our deepest pain and most challenging existential questions. I also highly recommend Crime and Punishment. It's a quicker read with far fewer characters to remember... which gets tough when each character has three or so different Russian names!

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"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton

On the Incarnation, St. Athanasius. Talk about a lucid writer! I know three people who became Orthodox after reading this book.

Let's hope it becomes 4 (or at least 3.5 for being a web acquaintance). It's up next in my queue.

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North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).

The Early Papacy: To the Synod of Chalcedon in 451, by Adrian Fortescue

I was hoping for something scholarly, and the last thing I wanted was an apologetic. I guess I should have researched the book a bit more before buying it. As I read the back cover, what does the first line say? "Adrian Fortescue, A British apologist for the Catholic faith..." Well anyway, I have the book now, so I might as well read it...

« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 05:54:19 PM by Asteriktos »

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"Christian America is finally waking up to what fraternities and biker gangs have known for years: hazing works!"

I am constantly reading the same stuff over and but what I have recently read and currently reading and will soon to be reading, that is not in the standard rotation:

Because my Priest mentions it often and stresses its importance in his life, I revisited The Brothers Karamazov, the Pevear and Volokhonsky version in English translation, during my week or so off during the holiday break.

Just finishing up the Pevear and Volokhonsky version in English translation of Tolstoy's The Diary of a Madman and The Death Ivan Ilyich

Don QuixoteBeowulfThe Wayward Bus, by John Steinbeck (rereading)and I may start Life and Fate, by Vasily Grossman

This is probably going to occupy me during all of Lent, as much as I would love to start other books, my pile of books on my nightstand is threatening to fall over on me in my sleep. If that's how I shall go, at least I shall die happy, I guess.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

This one's been on my nightstand for 2 years and I've gotten about 200 pages in. It's now a test of wills - like trying to finish War & Peace. I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes this book a literary classic? The writing is excellent, but the plot seems like one long road trip gone bad. How many pages does it take to make the point that Don Quixote was a mixed up, deluded fool? Amy I missing something?

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On the spiritual path somewhere between the Simpsons and St. Theophan the Recluse, but I still can't see the Springfield city limits sign yet.

Taking off to Europe next month, Lord willing. Going to end a three month hop around the place with several weeks in England, so want to see as much of my home county as possible, specifically with a view to the Roman occupation. So I'm reading "Roman Sussex" by Miles Russell - amongst other British-Roman history stuff.

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I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

This one's been on my nightstand for 2 years and I've gotten about 200 pages in. It's now a test of wills - like trying to finish War & Peace. I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes this book a literary classic? The writing is excellent, but the plot seems like one long road trip gone bad. How many pages does it take to make the point that Don Quixote was a mixed up, deluded fool? Amy I missing something?

Tina, I've been asking myself those questions since I began reading that book. I wonder what the inner meaning is, if there is one. I hope there is one. I found a lot of uncanny parallels between Grisostomo and Marcela and St. John Chrysostom and Empress Eudoxia. Maybe I'm just an Orthodork.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

I am currently reading "Satan an authorized autobiography" by John Anderson. I'm only about 100 or so pages in and ready to set the book on fire. Writing style: not even meh. Plot: Theology: Not your typical Protestant, here is the kicker *SPOILER* Man is Satan since the Hebrew word for Satan is adversary and the same word is used to describe God and man through out various verses of scripture. So Satan is not a real person, but all of mankind is Satan since we are God's adversaries... Also Satan has no supernatural powers, since Satan is man. -500,000,000,000,000,000,000 out of 5 stars.

This one's been on my nightstand for 2 years and I've gotten about 200 pages in. It's now a test of wills - like trying to finish War & Peace. I'm trying to figure out what it is that makes this book a literary classic? The writing is excellent, but the plot seems like one long road trip gone bad. How many pages does it take to make the point that Don Quixote was a mixed up, deluded fool? Amy I missing something?

Tina, I've been asking myself those questions since I began reading that book. I wonder what the inner meaning is, if there is one. I hope there is one. I found a lot of uncanny parallels between Grisostomo and Marcela and St. John Chrysostom and Empress Eudoxia. Maybe I'm just an Orthodork.

I have heard much about this author. The reviews say that this book is not so much an apology of postmodernism but a rehabilitation of virtue. This thinker was born Catholic, became Marxist, and reverted to Catholicism and Thomism. Hated by the Left for his Christianity, hated by the libertarian right because of his "communitarianism" which they call communism.

But as Lent is upon us, my typical Lenten favorites have been dusted off:

The Prologue to the TriodionGreat Lent by Fr. Alexander SchmemannThe Lenten Spring by Fr. Thomas HopkoThe Confessions by St. AugustineThe Way of the PilgrimA Spiritual Psalter of St. Ephraim the Syrian

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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

So... just finished reading "Satan an authorized autobiography" today. Apparently the whole of Christianity has been wrong for two thousand years because God's time for the "truth" of this book to be revealed, just like when Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church - it was God's time for a truth to be revealed. The author claims that if you just read the Bible with an open mind and willingness to be wrong then you will see how any time the Bible talks about Satan, serpent, or dragon that the message is clearly talking about man being God's adversary. So in essence it has taken the "church" two thousand years to realize how it has been wrong - and I'm sure the author would say that there are more "truths" to be revealed.

Also, the claim is made that those times that demons are mentioned in the OT the demons are really just the idols of pagan nations, and since idols are just statues and demons are idols then demons are not real and can not harm humans and possess people. In the NT demon possession is the result of God cursing the nation of Israel's pagan ways by afflicting them with mental disorders - for example the man possessed by Legion suffered from multiple personality disorder and Jesus just drove the madness out of the man and into the pigs to show that He can make the curse go away and as He is God has power over the curse of Israel...

I find it amazing to believe that the Apostles would not have known that the Scriptures were talking about mankind being Satan and passing that info on to the Church. The book claims to reveal a truth through the story telling of a fiction, but if you ask me the whole thing is just fiction. The author claims to have studied the Bible for 30+ years and these are the conclusions he comes to. To me this is just another nail in the coffin for sola scripturists as the author urges people to come to their own conclusions whilst not purely relying on preachers who do not know any better, and the traditions of men, and they too will come to know this truth...

So... just finished reading "Satan an authorized autobiography" today. Apparently the whole of Christianity has been wrong for two thousand years because God's time for the "truth" of this book to be revealed, just like when Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church - it was God's time for a truth to be revealed. The author claims that if you just read the Bible with an open mind and willingness to be wrong then you will see how any time the Bible talks about Satan, serpent, or dragon that the message is clearly talking about man being God's adversary. So in essence it has taken the "church" two thousand years to realize how it has been wrong - and I'm sure the author would say that there are more "truths" to be revealed.

Also, the claim is made that those times that demons are mentioned in the OT the demons are really just the idols of pagan nations, and since idols are just statues and demons are idols then demons are not real and can not harm humans and possess people. In the NT demon possession is the result of God cursing the nation of Israel's pagan ways by afflicting them with mental disorders - for example the man possessed by Legion suffered from multiple personality disorder and Jesus just drove the madness out of the man and into the pigs to show that He can make the curse go away and as He is God has power over the curse of Israel...

I find it amazing to believe that the Apostles would not have known that the Scriptures were talking about mankind being Satan and passing that info on to the Church. The book claims to reveal a truth through the story telling of a fiction, but if you ask me the whole thing is just fiction. The author claims to have studied the Bible for 30+ years and these are the conclusions he comes to. To me this is just another nail in the coffin for sola scripturists as the author urges people to come to their own conclusions whilst not purely relying on preachers who do not know any better, and the traditions of men, and they too will come to know this truth...

Overall I face palmed many a time during my reading.

LoL! Ahhh, the never ending intrigues produced by Sola Scriptura.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+

So... just finished reading "Satan an authorized autobiography" today. Apparently the whole of Christianity has been wrong for two thousand years because God's time for the "truth" of this book to be revealed, just like when Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church - it was God's time for a truth to be revealed. The author claims that if you just read the Bible with an open mind and willingness to be wrong then you will see how any time the Bible talks about Satan, serpent, or dragon that the message is clearly talking about man being God's adversary. So in essence it has taken the "church" two thousand years to realize how it has been wrong - and I'm sure the author would say that there are more "truths" to be revealed.

Also, the claim is made that those times that demons are mentioned in the OT the demons are really just the idols of pagan nations, and since idols are just statues and demons are idols then demons are not real and can not harm humans and possess people. In the NT demon possession is the result of God cursing the nation of Israel's pagan ways by afflicting them with mental disorders - for example the man possessed by Legion suffered from multiple personality disorder and Jesus just drove the madness out of the man and into the pigs to show that He can make the curse go away and as He is God has power over the curse of Israel...

I find it amazing to believe that the Apostles would not have known that the Scriptures were talking about mankind being Satan and passing that info on to the Church. The book claims to reveal a truth through the story telling of a fiction, but if you ask me the whole thing is just fiction. The author claims to have studied the Bible for 30+ years and these are the conclusions he comes to. To me this is just another nail in the coffin for sola scripturists as the author urges people to come to their own conclusions whilst not purely relying on preachers who do not know any better, and the traditions of men, and they too will come to know this truth...

Overall I face palmed many a time during my reading.

LoL! Ahhh, the never ending intrigues produced by Sola Scriptura.

Selam

Glad you got a chuckle out of that. I'm also glad that I removed myself from the position of Sola Scriptura...

So... just finished reading "Satan an authorized autobiography" today. Apparently the whole of Christianity has been wrong for two thousand years because God's time for the "truth" of this book to be revealed, just like when Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church - it was God's time for a truth to be revealed. The author claims that if you just read the Bible with an open mind and willingness to be wrong then you will see how any time the Bible talks about Satan, serpent, or dragon that the message is clearly talking about man being God's adversary. So in essence it has taken the "church" two thousand years to realize how it has been wrong - and I'm sure the author would say that there are more "truths" to be revealed.

Also, the claim is made that those times that demons are mentioned in the OT the demons are really just the idols of pagan nations, and since idols are just statues and demons are idols then demons are not real and can not harm humans and possess people. In the NT demon possession is the result of God cursing the nation of Israel's pagan ways by afflicting them with mental disorders - for example the man possessed by Legion suffered from multiple personality disorder and Jesus just drove the madness out of the man and into the pigs to show that He can make the curse go away and as He is God has power over the curse of Israel...

I find it amazing to believe that the Apostles would not have known that the Scriptures were talking about mankind being Satan and passing that info on to the Church. The book claims to reveal a truth through the story telling of a fiction, but if you ask me the whole thing is just fiction. The author claims to have studied the Bible for 30+ years and these are the conclusions he comes to. To me this is just another nail in the coffin for sola scripturists as the author urges people to come to their own conclusions whilst not purely relying on preachers who do not know any better, and the traditions of men, and they too will come to know this truth...

Overall I face palmed many a time during my reading.

LoL! Ahhh, the never ending intrigues produced by Sola Scriptura.

Selam

Glad you got a chuckle out of that. I'm also glad that I removed myself from the position of Sola Scriptura...

I was once there myself.

Selam

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"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."Selam, +GMK+