PK Subban is paid to help the team win games, not perform acts with heroic intents that have awful results, such as the 3-on-2 that ended our playoff run. You think Nick Lidstrom would try that ********? Of course not. Making the RIGHT play is the most important thing, everything else is secondary.

He has helped the team win games...wtf are you talking about? Those same plays you hate are the same plays that have helped us in the past.

What 3 on 2 are you talking about? You sound scorned, let it go. Players young and old make mistakes but it seems as though Subban is not allowed to.

About the playoffs....he was a big reason why we had success 3 years ago...and if it were not for his style of play that you hate so much, we woulsn't have gotten to OT in game 7 against the Bruins.

Completely disagree and you lose a lot of credibility here. Last year I might've agreed at the start of the year but he's improved tremendously and there's absolutely NO reason for him to be getting the little ice time that he is.

Wait. I lose "a lot of credibility" because I agree with how Therrien is using PK? Interesting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kriss E

Everytime he has the puck and goes in his ''PK mode'' where he would create some interesting things last year (granted, sometimes it lead nowhere and caused turnovers), he stops and goes for a simple pass or dump in.

Thank God! No one wants "PK mode". He's got to play within the system and read and react off of what the other team is giving him. I don't want him forcing it out there, which is what's been happening lately. Smart players from other teams trap him and know that pressuring him will sometimes cause him to skate himself into a corner.

Subban will have his time. The bottom line is that right now, some people feel Subban should play more because they feel the team might improve; not only is that speculation, it's also dangerous.

It's not like Subban has been so lights out that he necessarily deserves more than the ice time he's been getting either.

Truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11

Maybe you should watch other offensive dman with the same talent or more than PK and see how long they hold the puck or make plays outside of the box. Watch how they rush the puck up ice and lose it....

Like who? Who, in your opinion, is of the same talent or better that does the things you describe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudi94

Montreal is 13-4-3 They've cut their goals against down considerably. They're giving up way fewer shots. They're playing as a unit. It may not last, but it's working right now. PK is not bigger than the team. He knows it and accepts it, why can't the fans? He is doing the little things so much better. He isn't putting himself into near as many high risk situations. That results in fewer scoring chances, but also helps his team keep the puck out of the net. If we were down by one late in the third (except for the Bruins game, there hasn't been any time this season it's happened), the reigns may get loosened and he can take chances.
At some point we have to trust the staff to do the right thing.

Maybe you should watch other offensive dman with the same talent or more than PK and see how long they hold the puck or make plays outside of the box. Watch how they rush the puck up ice and lose it....

As someone else said...I think PK is being turned into a different player and I don't get it. He's exuberant...if that's not what you're looking for, then trade him for a drone that will do what is asked.

PK is the type of guy you adjust to and help him with his game..you don't make him play a different game and change the way he is. It's stupid.

You think he'd be playing as a 5th dman without any PK time on any other team? It's silly.

Relax man. I already said that I hope that Subban plays in Montreal for his entire career.

and you have an excuse for every one he does, mainly "style of play" kind of excuses.

Hard to believe you care as much about the Habs as you care about P.K.

That's the 2nd time you've questioned my fanhood. This will be the last time. I have said here and in other threads that PK is not perfect and there are areas of his game that he needs to improve on. WTF does that have to do with playing time? If you're having trouble following this discussion, just let me know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthernHab

Relax man. I already said that I hope that Subban plays in Montreal for his entire career.

He has helped the team win games...wtf are you talking about? Those same plays you hate are the same plays that have helped us in the past.

What 3 on 2 are you talking about? You sound scorned, let it go. Players young and old make mistakes but it seems as though Subban is not allowed to.

About the playoffs....he was a big reason why we had success 3 years ago...and if it were not for his style of play that you hate so much, we woulsn't have gotten to OT in game 7 against the Bruins.

I meant the sequence that lead to Ryder's OT game-winner against us.

Yeah, you're allowed to make mistakes. That doesn't mean you sit back and not help them LEARN from them. It's when the person learns from the mistake that he improves his game. If Subban keeps on making silly plays that causes him to lose the puck, which he was doing a couple games ago, that is not helping him or the team.

The guy is very good yes, but that doesn't mean he's reached his ceiling yet. He could be even better, and that's what I and others want. Meanwhile, you're defense is like a parent spoiling his child. Every transgression allowed, not a single piece of criticism, even constructive criticism, can be levied on the boy. He's "perfect" in your world.

I'm not one of those guys who likes to harp on one thing, don't group me with others. I think P.K Subban is very good, but he's has room to improve his game so it could very well match that of a Lidstrom.

If the team would be losing alot and PK would play at the level he was during the playoff in 2009-2010 or during the regular season in 2010-2011 or even at the end of last season I would be mad at Therrien, but that's not the case. We're talking about a guy that doesn't have the best start defensively on a team that is at the top of the conference... I don't think Therrien is doing anything wrong with PK right now.

Yeah, you're allowed to make mistakes. That doesn't mean you sit back and not help them LEARN from them. It's when the person learns from the mistake that he improves his game. If Subban keeps on making silly plays that causes him to lose the puck, which he was doing a couple games ago, that is not helping him or the team.

The guy is very good yes, but that doesn't mean he's reached his ceiling yet. He could be even better, and that's what I and others want. Meanwhile, you're defense is like a parent spoiling his child. Every transgression allowed, not a single piece of criticism, even constructive criticism, can be levied on the boy. He's "perfect" in your world.

I'm not one of those guys who likes to harp on one thing, don't group me with others. I think P.K Subban is very good, but he's has room to improve his game so it could very well match that of a Lidstrom.

All I said was he should not be played as a 3rd pairing dman. How that translated to me not thinking Subban was perfect and does not have room to grow is beyond me. Why isn't he playing on the PK? I can think of 2 games (Boston and Ottawa) where Diaz was weak on the PK which resulted in goals that lead to losses. Not saying PK would have avoided that, but why isn't he on the PK? i don't get it.

Wait. I lose "a lot of credibility" because I agree with how Therrien is using PK? Interesting....

You lose credibilty saying PK is getting the icetime he deserves, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forsead

If the team would be losing alot and PK would play at the level he was during the playoff in 2009-2010 or during the regular season in 2010-2011 or even at the end of last season I would be mad at Therrien, but that's not the case. We're talking about a guy that doesn't have the best start defensively on a team that is at the top of the conference... I don't think Therrien is doing anything wrong with PK right now.

I'm not sure what MT's problem is. He sits PK after he comes back saying he has to learn the system but Michael Ryder can walk right in?

What kind of game is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forsead

Sometimes I think people are arrogant about their coaching capacity.

You don't have to be a big league coach to know that his making a mistake here anymore than you need to be a GM to know that Gainey was an idiot for trading for Gomez.

You lose credibilty saying PK is getting the icetime he deserves, yes.

I'm not sure what MT's problem is. He sits PK after he comes back saying he has to learn the system but Michael Ryder can walk right in?

What kind of game is that?

You don't have to be a big league coach to know that his making a mistake here anymore than you need to be a GM to know that Gainey was an idiot for trading for Gomez.

The difference is between coming from a win and from a loss...

Well PK isn't playing really well, so I don't see how it's a mistake. When he will play defensively at the level he was at the end of last season then it would be a mistake not playing him more, but I guess me, Therrien, Daigneault, Galant and Jodoin know less than you.

I remember cleary that it wasn't a consensus on this board that the Gomez trade was a bad move at the time it happened.... then again we aren't discussing this.

All I said was he should not be played as a 3rd pairing dman. How that translated to me not thinking Subban was perfect and does not have room to grow is beyond me. Why isn't he playing on the PK? I can think of 2 games (Boston and Ottawa) where Diaz was weak on the PK which resulted in goals that lead to losses. Not saying PK would have avoided that, but why isn't he on the PK? i don't get it.

Well, on the penalty kill point, I do agree. I would like to see him more on the PK. He's stronger at winning puck battles and is more experienced.

You lose credibilty saying PK is getting the icetime he deserves, yes.

He's not playing like a top dman right now, so why should he be played like one? Diaz has been better and has earned those minutes. I, personally, love how Therrien rewards ice-time to those who perform. JMO.

And you're seeing things when it comes to the Ryder thing. PK hadn't even practiced yet for the year. Ryder is in game shape, obviously.

Well PK isn't playing really well, so I don't see how it's a mistake. When he will play defensively at the level he was at the end of last season then it would be a mistake not playing him more, but I guess me, Therrien, Daigneault, Galant and Jodoin know less than you.

PK is playing great hockey. No reason for him to be playing 20 mins or less a game.

There's something else going on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forsead

I remember cleary that it wasn't a consensus on this board that the Gomez trade was a bad move at the time it happened.... then again we aren't discussing this.

Yeah, I remember it clearly too. There was clear consensus (outside these boards) that it was terrible. Only in the Hab forums was it defended.

PK is our best blueliner. Makes no sense putting him on the 3rd pairing. Again, you don't need to be an NHL coach to see this. Esp after the season he had last year logging 25 mins a night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HankyZetts

He's not playing like a top dman right now, so why should he be played like one? Diaz has been better and has earned those minutes. I, personally, love how Therrien rewards ice-time to those who perform. JMO.

And you're seeing things when it comes to the Ryder thing. PK hadn't even practiced yet for the year. Ryder is in game shape, obviously.

Montreal is 13-4-3 They've cut their goals against down considerably. They're giving up way fewer shots. They're playing as a unit. It may not last, but it's working right now. PK is not bigger than the team. He knows it and accepts it, why can't the fans? He is doing the little things so much better. He isn't putting himself into near as many high risk situations. That results in fewer scoring chances, but also helps his team keep the puck out of the net. If we were down by one late in the third (except for the Bruins game, there hasn't been any time this season it's happened), the reigns may get loosened and he can take chances.
At some point we have to trust the staff to do the right thing.

Who cares?
Pittsburgh went on a complete tear without Crosby with Malkin leading the way, in the previous years. Should they keep Crosby out?
Same can apply here, it's not because we're winning with PK as our 5th Dman that it should remain as so.

PK is doing those little things just as good as in the previous years.
But you're right he is staying away from things he did last year..

When was the last time you saw him join a rush?
When's the last time you saw him dish out a crushing hit?
When's the last time you saw him get in the opposition's face?
When's the last time you saw him draw a penalty because of him getting under the skin of an opponent?

The kid looks like a sheep out there. He's such a skilled young player so he still looks great out there, but I don't recognize the PK I watched over the past two years.
Now, maybe that's PK deciding to change his ways, but after looking at the holdout from management, the very cheap deal offered, hearing what Therrien said and looking at how he's being utilized, I can't help but feel this is coming from the management group.

You can look at our record and say it's all good. That's fine. But it doesn't mean we wouldn't be even better with PK playing more. We had no problem having PK play a huge part on our PK last year that hovered around #1 and #2 all year, as well as the previous year. Give him more minutes there, maybe our PK would improve. Give him a little more ice time at ES instead of giving it to Emelin that looks confused playing on his off wing.

That's the 2nd time you've questioned my fanhood. This will be the last time. I have said here and in other threads that PK is not perfect and there are areas of his game that he needs to improve on. WTF does that have to do with playing time? If you're having trouble following this discussion, just let me know.

Agreed.

since you're asking the question, guess I'm not the one having a hard time following

Who cares?
Pittsburgh went on a complete tear without Crosby with Malkin leading the way, in the previous years. Should they keep Crosby out?
Same can apply here, it's not because we're winning with PK as our 5th Dman that it should remain as so.

PK is doing those little things just as good as in the previous years.
But you're right he is staying away from things he did last year..

When was the last time you saw him join a rush?
When's the last time you saw him dish out a crushing hit?
When's the last time you saw him get in the opposition's face?
When's the last time you saw him draw a penalty because of him getting under the skin of an opponent?

The kid looks like a sheep out there. He's such a skilled young player so he still looks great out there, but I don't recognize the PK I watched over the past two years.
Now, maybe that's PK deciding to change his ways, but after looking at the holdout from management, the very cheap deal offered, hearing what Therrien said and looking at how he's being utilized, I can't help but feel this is coming from the management group.

You can look at our record and say it's all good. That's fine. But it doesn't mean we wouldn't be even better with PK playing more. We had no problem having PK play a huge part on our PK last year that hovered around #1 and #2 all year, as well as the previous year. Give him more minutes there, maybe our PK would improve. Give him a little more ice time at ES instead of giving it to Emelin that looks confused playing on his off wing.