with maldonado right behind, who needs Massa! I mean, why just ‘hold ‘up vettel when he could be ‘taken out’! AND, massa demotion would promote alonso to the cleaner side(IF it doesnt rain) and so 3 more places.
two strikes with one blow(to massa)

For the same reason that they might be tempted to do again – to give alonso the best possible start, regardless of whether the issue was a dirtyside or a lower quali pos.
So, the point should be “I dont think you quite understand why Ferrari does such gimmick”

Correct me if I’m in the wrong here but I’m sure the general buzz about the incident was so that Alonso didn’t start on the dirty side of the grid which it was predicted that those who started their would lose 2-3 positions.

If it was the reason of getting Massa out of the way, all it would take would be 1 simple radio call which would be a lot less hassle.

@wlewy13 – I would think personally that they’d be better off to keep Massa where he is to try and prssurise Vettel and if he can get past hold him up. Anyway, Domenicali flatly denied that they’d do the same again.

Or use the 2nd car as a Massa shaped missile to broadside the RB, probably hitting the wrong RB in comic style.

In all seriousness, being on the odd side, Massa has a good chance to get in front of Vettel and the Senna Esses have claimed many a victim in the past, they scare me as a fan wanting my fav drivers in the Brazilian GP opening lap.

@sjm – I don’t think he’d do that for two reasons: a) it’s his home race and he’ll want to do well himself
b) Ferrari and probably Massa himself would get severely penalised by the FIA – deliberately crashing is completely unacceptable in this modern safety era.

The penalty was a one off for Austin guys. It was a unique situation, with the track being new, slippy, low grip and the right hand side having so much more grip that anyone on the inside could potentially lose 1 or 2 places at the start.

But tomorrow could be interesting.. Whats the chances of starting under the safety car? At 80% chance of rain, it’s difficult to envision a regular dry start.. Possibly on inters, who knows.

Alonso has never been the fastest qualifier. It’s not one of his strengths, however Massa has really turned it around since he got a handle on these tyres and was given a new contract.. He has no pressure on him and he can go out and attack.

What will be interesting is the race, did Ferrari go for a full wet setup with Alonso.. I think so, and if I was running any midfield team I would do the same too.

Tense stuff. I wonder what has happened that Massa has picked up his pace again. Car development? Contract extension might be a factor, but not to this extent.

Difficult job for Ferrari tomorrow, but I do see Vettel struggling. I can see Alonso finishing ahead, but I can’t see him win or finish second (I think it’ll be either Hamilton-Button or Hamilton-Webber) or Vettel finishing at the bottom of or outside the points.

That’s decent for Vettel. He’s ahead of both Ferrari’s and Alonso is well out of the position he needs to be in to take the championship. McLaren could also get a one-two so that would dent Alonso’s championship chances (if Alonso comes 3rd Vettel only has to come 9th).

Alonso is well out of the position he needs to be in to take the championship

That’s the same qualifying position of the Malaysian GP, Vettel’s chances are higher than Alonso but if the race is going to be wet Fernando will deliver as always a very decent performance maybe that would not be enough since it depend all to what position Vettel will finish the race

Remember also though in Malaysia the rain intensity was much greater than is forecast for this weekend and Vettel was running 4th and chasing 3rd before Karthikeyan hit him, so that would be sufficient to allow Vettel to take the championship. Provided there are only showers or no rain at all I don’t expect Alonso to win from such a lowly grid position, as much as it would spice up the championship battle!

The title is in Vettel’s pocket for sure, all he has to do is stay away from trouble & just finish the race. Only worry for him would be that the Ferraris are the best off the line. I wouldn’t be surprised seeing Felipe going very aggressive on Vettel. A little squeeze through the Senna S perhaps? :)

I feel if it’s a wet race, and it’s 99% likely to have some rain during the race.. I just feel like he’s going to make a mistake and bin his car somewhere. I know what Eddy was saying though, it feels like something epic is going to happen tomorrow.. I don’t see Vettel having it easy at all.

But trouble is all around. Maldonado behind. Massa to one side. Getting to turn 2 is not academic. But even so yeah Alonso needs to beat 4 others excluding massa. Really Alonso needs a t1 dust up or a really lucky SC.

Massa out qualifying Alonso as a rule. We are told this is Alonso at his best.
Greatest driver in history of F1 the pundits tell us. Outdriving the car…..

Kimi was trashed in 2008 when Massa out-qualified him a few times. Won’t go into this now.
Kimi got no track time in Brazil this year and still did a decent job in a Lotus.
He lines up next to the great Alonso……

@tifoso – yes, there was a big debate about it on Sky. He’ll probably get a penalty as it was clearly indicated that he was to go to the weigh bridge. It was in the middle of the session though which is a highly unusual occurrence, so mp he may be let off (although I think he has two reprimands which would mean he’d get a penalty if he were to get a reprimand).

Yep, about half way in Q2 look at his onboard you can see the official on the rhs of the pit entry next to a big red light pointing Maldonado to go left into the weigh-station. Then shacking his head as Maldonado keeps going.

Would be interesting if Red Bull pulled the same card Ferrari did last weekend. It would be a big statement psychologically IMO – in a Don Corleone fashion, it’s an insurance policy. “If Massa takes out Vettel, Webber takes out Alonso.”

@raymondu999 – it’s a different situation though: Vettel doesn’t need to finish higher than he is now, and if Webber and the McLaren’s stay where they are Alonso can’t win anyway, whatever happens to Vettel. I think they’d be better to keep him where he is and if he needs to give up a position to Vettel later in the race (provided Vettel isn’t already ahead) then he can.

Personally I think Red Bull would be best to keep Webber where he is so they can use him tactically if necessary to hold up Alonso.

@vettel1 you clearly misunderstood my post. Don Corleone is the mafia don in The Godfather. If they demoted Webber, Alonso would start P7,Webber P8. Vettel P3, Massa P4. The same situation on both ends, just reversed and 2 rows back.

With things as they stand – what happens if Massa has “brake failure” into turn 1 as he is braking for P4 behind Vettel?

@vettel1 How would he? Fall back through the field and crash? That would quite clearly result in a disqualification for Vettel because of throwing the sport into disrepute, which is sporting article something (which I don’t remember)

@vettel1 not if Webber breaks down before that, or if he has his own startline accident with someone else.

It’s quite easy to manufacture a brake issue at the start to be completely honest – and I speak from my own motorsport experience. Brakes work for a very narrow temperature window, and it only takes Massa to not touch his brakes on the formation lap to have nonresponding brakes into T1.

My point is – if Red Bull sent Webber to square off Alonso, it guarantees 100% that Massa will not be sent to perform a pre-planned punt on Vettel into Turn 1.

Massa is a bit like Button, and to some extent Vettel. When the car is in their hands, and the balance is right, those three can be phenomenal, but as drivers, all of them lack versatility. It that versatility, twinned with their sheer speed, that in my view makes Hamilton and Alonso the cream-of-the crop. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be beaten by their teammates, especially if the car is to his liking, so if I were Hamilton, I’d be worriedly looking over my shoulder at a man that was only 0.055 slower than him in Q3, and traditionally faster in the race. I wouldn’t read much into Massa’s performance, Alonso was blatantly on a wet setup; its his only chance.

If you can’t read into the performance of the Ferrari drivers, when Alonso has nothing to lose from 13 points down, you can’t read into the RBR driver’s performance then- Vettel is the one who can be cautious and bring the title home.

Disagree. Fact: Alonso was slow because he had a full wet setup, complete with a higher ride-height and softer suspension, hence the lock-ups. Hypothesis: Vettel was slow because he was under pressure. Don’t think for a moment that Vettel was holding back, he wants to win, he wants to dominate, he wants to make amends for Japan 2011. He is under pressure, just look at his face looking at the timing screen and his somber demeanor in post-qualy interviews, and when Vettel is under pressure he is comparatively poor; just look at the final lap of the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix.

Rubbish. Where’s the data that Alonso was slow because was on a wet setup? You’re just making excuses to cover Alonso’s lack of pace, while making it out that Vettel’s lack of pace was down to him.

And furthermore, it’s easy to point out any mistakes a driver makes to claim they are poor under pressure. I could point out plenty of examples from the same year to diminish Hamilton, or say the same about Alonso cutting across Kimi in Japan this year. How about races where Vettel beat his opponents when under pressure, like the 2 races preceding Canada 2011, or Bahrain 2012?

Alonso was slow because he is NOT as good as Vettel, period. Car development is NOT just engineers’ job. The driver has many thing to do with that. His car is slow because he doesn’t understand it better than his rivals.

Good drives from Massa and The Hulk. Nico in particular must be feeling pretty smug being able to split the Ferrari’s and qualifying on pole here two years ago. A shame for Grosjean but it doesn’t look like the E20 was up to much here so far anyways. Well done to Vitaly again.

We noticed that Maldonado and Räikkönen had exactly the same times in Q2: 1:13.698. What would be decided if that happened in Q3? Especially if 2 drivers had the exact same time for the Pole position, it would be interesting.

This happened during qualifying for the 1997 European Grand Prix at Jerez: Jacques Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher and Heinz-Harald Frentzen set times of 1’21.072, identical to within one thousandth of a second, so they lined up in that order in first, second and third on the grid.