A bit of a head-scratcher isn't it? Based on their jokes, RWD forwards of pictures of Putin, their love of Bibi, etc they should move to either Russia or Israel. I wonder when the trolls will be packing their bags for Ben Gurion?

At least the Israelis can freely voice their opinion on Bibi and his foreign policy.

This is called freedom of speech, and can be found in the U.S. and Israel, but not one of its neighboring countries.

F.Y.I. -The U.S. gets a lot in return for aiding Israel, military intelligence among other things. The U.S. knows how and where to invest their money. It is very impressive how Israel has rebuilt the country since 1948.

Palestine also receive MILLIONS and MILLIONS from the U.S. and other parts of the world. What do they do with it? Nothing. It is sitting in private bank accounts.

So it is better that Bibi kiss Obama’s ass and bow to him, because the U.S. aids Israel, instead of speaking his mind?

Bibi can't keep his own story straight. One minute he's desperately appealing to the hardliners in order to safe his job. Once re-elected he backtracks.

So he's already a hypocrite. The least he could be grateful for all the free stuff we give him.

Also, who mentioned Iran? Simply saying "those guys over there are bad, therefore we should support these other guys who happen to oppose them" is the kind of childish logic which causes so many problems, especially in foreign policy. Grow up.

Jeezus Barky you are one dense mf'er aren't you. Who the fuck said anything about Iran? The OP is hinting that wingers love Bibi (or Putin or Abdullah) at the same time despising Obama for whatever reason - but one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. It must be because he's a Democrat right? That in and of itself is enough for the Conservative base to pine for and want to fellate some foreign leader? Really? I don't care for a lot of his policies and didn't vote for him but that's really irrelevant. So I ask again, when are you packing your shit and your never ending supply of straw men for Ben Gurion?

The lack of knowledge about *anything* about Iran & the incessant spouting of rightwing lying propaganda about Iran is telling. Combined with spouting bullshit lying propaganda about Israel & Palestine makes the ignorant psychobabble almost painful bc of the sheer barking idiocy of it.

Whatever. This not-a-joke is the usual rigthwing twofer of fellating Israel just because whilst dissing the Schwartza.

@ "Anonymous above: "So if Khamenei doesn't like the deal, isn't that a good thing? If it was a bad deal for us (and for Isreal, because apparently that's all that matters) wouldn't Khamenei be singing its praises? Come on, try thinking now and then."

What a MORON ----->You are the one who might want to start "thinking now and then".....youand all your left wing ilk commentators/pundits on here.

Too bad the “framework” of a nuclear weapons deal with Iran didn’t come four days earlier on April Fools’ Day. It would have been more appropriate. The United States is being asked to foolishly believe promises by a regime that is religiously motivated to eliminate Israel and ultimately the United States, is the premier sponsor of terrorism in the world, has a record of breaking promises, including past promises about nuclear weapons, and still holds American prisoners, including a Christian minister, a Washington Post reporter, a former Marine and Robert Levinson, a retired DEA agent taken hostage in 2007.

Did Secretary of State John Kerry demand they be released as part of the framework? We don’t know because the deal that isn’t yet a deal has not been formalized. And if an agreement is actually reached by the next deadline in June, we still might only know what they tell us, unless Congress holds hearings and asks the right questions. Shades of Rep. Nancy Pelosi’s line about the need to pass Obamacare to find out what’s in it.

The other half of the credibility gap is Obummer. We are asked to believe a man who said, “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” and that his would be the most “open and transparent” administration in history, among many other obfuscations.

You liberals need to wake up and smell the Juan Valdez and stop "FELLATING" Obama.

Now some nuts and bolts on this bogus "framework" that seems to be a "fair deal/reasonable" (bullshit):

In a dispute between an American president and a foreign leader, especially an Iranian leader, one might expect most Americans to side with the president. Not in this case. Iran’s chief negotiator at the talks in Switzerland, Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people and Congress. Zarif claimed that in spite of statements from Secretary Kerry and a “fact sheet” released by the American delegation, the United States is making claims that conditions were reached for the accord that Iran did not agree to.

Hey CharlieE, if the two sides can’t agree on the contents of the framework, how are they supposed to reach a final agreement by June? In this case, the devil is not in the details; the devil is Iran.

Iran has always maintained it is seeking nuclear power for peaceful purposes. If that were true, there would be no need for negotiations. How do you negotiate with someone who has lied from the start and is told in the Koran that lying to “infidels” is permissible in pursuit of Islamic goals?

Did Secretary Kerry ask Zarif if he had heard from Allah lately and whether Allah has changed his mind about the destruction of Israel, the eradication of the Jewish people and the elimination of the United States? I’m guessing probably not, but he should have, since current and previous Iranian leaders have said openly that this is the mandate they have received from their god.

Among the many concerns in the announced framework is language that says, “The International Atomic Energy Agency will have regular access to all of Iran’s nuclear facilities, including Iran’s enrichment facility at Natanz and its former enrichment facility at Fordow, and including the use of the most up-to-date, modern monitoring technologies.” What is meant by “regular access”? Will it have to be scheduled, or will there be surprise visits? Iran, like North Korea, has hidden nuclear material from inspectors in the past, and if they wanted to, they might do so again.

A Wall Street Journal editorial noted: “Consider the Additional Protocol, a 1997 addendum to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that was meant to expand the IAEA’s ability to detect and monitor clandestine nuclear activities. Iran signed the Additional Protocol in December 2003. ... The signature meant nothing: By September 2005 the IAEA reported that Iran wasn’t meeting its commitments, and Iran abandoned its pretense of compliance by February 2006.”

Stockbrokers are required to say that past performance is no guarantee of future results. With Iran, past performance is such a guarantee.

Delaying an inevitable military confrontation, rather than early intervention, allows the enemy to grow stronger with more loss of life and property when war comes. That is history’s lesson.

Which is it? Do you want deal in order to get all the things you say you think would be good, or do you not want the deal because it won't be a good enough one?

You have to make up your mind and stop moving the goal posts. Or you would have to do that, if you were really serious, which you're not.

Your flailing gets sadder and sadder every day. It's really obvious that you, like so many wingnuts, are just a scared little boy who thinks that fighting (or rather, sending others tot fight) the evil other will somehow bring meaning to your pathetic life. It must be awful to live such a shallow and fearful existence.

I'm not your pal. You sound like a sad, scared, and annoying person. I wouldn't want anything to do with you.

as we're in full fledged war with Iran."

Which sure sounds like something people like you (and Bibi, and a good portion of the GOP) WANT TO HAPPEN. So why should I trust anything you say when it's probably just leading us closer to the war you want?

Let's see the options here:

1) Work to bring Iran into the international community, a move that makes the average Iranian less likely to hate us and weakens their hardliners.

or

2) Continue to isolate and saber rattle, a move which strengthens people like Khamenei.

@ gruaud and ferschitz: So you say: "Hard to believe our Middle East foreign policy is being so heavily influenced by a right wing extremist of another country, and cheered on by the right wing of our own country.

Birds of a feather trumps national unity every time with these guys."

Hey liberal peace doves...has Israel ever said that they want to “wipe out” a country, like Iran repeatedly has said????

Israel has nukes, but they will never drop them on innocent civilians, or cities. Can’t say the same about Iran who openly wants Israel wiped out of the map.

Absolutely nobody should feel comfortable when a country that openly funds terrorist groups, has nuclear weapons. Maybe one day one of those terrorist groups can end up with a nuke. Is it OK then?

How would you feel if a country relatively close to the US (say Venezuela) openly say that they want to “wipe out” the US, and now this country is negotiating to have nuclear weapons so a crazy guy like Maduro can have his hands on it and push the button any time he feels like it?

You want to talk apartheid? Israel is the most non-apartheid country in the Middle East.

The Arabs have many many rights in Israel, and Jews couldn’t even dream of having 10% of those rights in the Arab countries there. Believe me. I lived in Lebanon, and Jews were not allowed to own businesses or anything. In Israel, Arabs own their businesses for example.

There are Israelis who definitely believe that. And many don't want the Palestinian state to exist in the first place. How's that for wiping out a country?

Israel has nukes, but they will never drop them on innocent civilians, or cities.

Then what's the point of having them? The whole purpose of nukes is to put the fear of annihilation into your potential enemy, by making it clear you have the capability to take out all their innocent people and cities if you please. If they were to ever actually use them they would aim them at cities full of innocent people. That's the point.

Absolutely nobody should feel comfortable when a country that openly funds terrorist groups, has nuclear weapons.

You mean like the US? A country which has both funded terrorists and has nuclear weapons (not to mention sold weapons to Iran, this great boogeyman you're so scared of)?

How would you feel if a country relatively close to the US (say Venezuela) openly say that they want to “wipe out” the US, and now this country is negotiating to have nuclear weapons so a crazy guy like Maduro can have his hands on it and push the button any time he feels like it?

I wouldn't give two shits about it. Our country made it through the Cold War, when the USSR was ready and able to wipe us out in an afternoon. You know how you do that? By having weapons of your own which can blast your enemy into orbit if they ever start something.

You want to talk apartheid? Israel is the most non-apartheid country in the Middle East.

You keep using that word. I don't think... you know what, never mind.

So, again, STFU with your juvenile left-wing propaganda, kids.

Says the whiny baby who lives in fear of the mysterious boogeymen who he just knows are coming to devour him. Maybe stop wetting yourself before trying to make your next argument.

So you write: "I wouldn't give two shits about it. Our country made it through the Cold War, when the USSR was ready and able to wipe us out in an afternoon. You know how you do that? By having weapons of your own ."

"there are Israelis who definitely believe that. And many don't want the Palestinian state to exist in the first place. How's that for wiping out a country?"

There are extremists in every country, jackass. But the official position of the Israeli government is to coexist with the Palestinians, and most people agree to that. The official Iranian position is not to recognize Israel and wipe them of the face of the map. That, pal, is very different.

"Then what's the point of having them? The whole purpose of nukes is to put the fear of annihilation into your potential enemy, by making it clear you have the capability to take out all their innocent people and cities if you please. If they were to ever actually use them they would aim them at cities full of innocent people. That's the point."

Hey pal, the US has them also, for the same reasons. To put fear into you potential enemies, and Israel needs them just to survive, when they are surrounded by enemies. Make sense?

"You mean like the USA? A country which has both funded terrorists and has nuclear weapons (not to mention soldweapons to Iran, this great boogeyman you're so scared of)?"

Really? You feel that the US openly funded terrorists, and it is a danger for them to have nuclear weapons? So the US should be in the same category as Iran, as well as all the other terrorist funding countries?

"I wouldn't give two shits about it. Our country made it through the Cold War, when the USSR was ready and able to wipe us out in an afternoon. You know how you do that? By having weapons of your own which can blast your enemy into orbit if they ever start something.

I think if the US were to be completely surrounded by enemies, and one with nuclear weapons, you would feel differently.

"You keep using that word. I don't think... you know what, never mind."

Hey pal, the US has them also, for the same reasons. To put fear into you potential enemies, and Israel needs them just to survive, when they are surrounded by enemies. Make sense?

Show me where I said otherwise? I know Israel has them. I'm not necessarily opposed to them having them. But you don't get to have them and then throw a hissy fit when your ally, who helped you get them and props you up, attempts to negotiate a peaceful nuclear deal with another country you don't happen to like.

So the US should be in the same category as Iran, as well as all the other terrorist funding countries?

Depends who's making the categories. I bet a lot of other nations feel that way about us.

I think if the US were to be completely surrounded by enemies, and one with nuclear weapons, you would feel differently.

What the hell does this even mean? The USSR, with its thousands of nuclear weapons they could deploy at any time, wasn't enough of a threat to consider serious?

Isreal has nukes. It has nukes precisely because it's "surrounded by enemies". Iran (possibly) having a nuke doesn't change that. If Iran ever used its (non-existent) nuke, what would happen? Israel would VAPORIZE THEM. Why can't you see this?

Let’s drop this subject.

I'll take that as an admission that you're (finally!) out of bullshit to spew.

No I am not out of bullshit to spew. I said “let’s drop this subject” because you said “never mind".

"Show me where I said otherwise? I know Israel has them. I'm not necessarily opposed to them having them. But you don't get to have them and then throw a hissy fit when your ally, who helped you get them and props you up, attempts to negotiate a peaceful nuclear deal with another country you don't happen to like."

What do you think will happen if Iran gets them? Other countries will want them, like Saudi Arabia. And, since Iran funds terrorists groups, who knows who might get their hands on them.

Ultimate protection from whom? Who has ever threatened Iran? How could you trust a country with nukes that has repeatedly and openly threatened to wipe out another country? Why is it so hard to understand? "It's not a matter of "feel". It's a fact. So the US should be in the same category as Iran, as well as all the other terrorist funding countries?

Depends who's making the categories. I bet a lot of other nations feel that way about us."

Maybe, but do you think they are right to feel that way about the US? I certainly don’t feel threatened by the fact that the US has them, nor should you. When did the US ever threaten to wipe out a country?

"What the hell does this even mean? The USSR, with its thousands of nuclear weapons they could deploy at any time, wasn't enough of a threat to consider serious?"

Did the USSR ever threaten to wipe out a country?

"Israel has nukes. It has nukes precisely because it's "surrounded by enemies". Iran (possibly) having a nuke doesn't change that. If Iran ever used its (non-existent) nuke, what would happen? Israel would VAPORIZE THEM. Why can't you see this?"

I don’t want it to get to that stage. Maybe when there is only one country that stands for your religion (Judaism), you’ll see this differently.

"I'll take that as an admission that you're (finally!) out of bullshit to spew."

No, I am not out of any bullshit. You said never mind.You know what? I am perfectly OK if you support the nuclear deal. I don’t. Is that all right with you? Freedom of speech. I did not start this argument. Believe what you want and let me believe what I want, and move on. Or should everybody you know support Obama and this deal? Live and let live.

What do you think will happen if Iran gets them? Other countries will want them, like Saudi Arabia. And, since Iran funds terrorists groups, who knows who might get their hands on them.

If that's the logic, then maybe no one should have them? After all, as soon as one country gets them other will want them too, right?

Ultimate protection from whom? Who has ever threatened Iran?

A sitting US Senator advocated for a bombing campaign against Iran just last week.

A sitting US Senator and former legitimate presidential candidate joked about bombing Iran before a cheering crowd of supporters.

Should Iran not take those as threats?

Iran saw what happened right next door in Iraq: American decided they wanted to invade and did so. Wanna bet if Iraq had a legit nuclear deterrent that invasion would never have happened?

Maybe, but do you think they are right to feel that way about the US?'

Beats me. I'm an American, so I can't say how someone else should feel about America. Given our past record maybe they should feel uneasy about it.

Did the USSR ever threaten to wipe out a country?

Yes! US! The USA! What do you think all those nukes were for?

No, I am not out of any bullshit.

Yes, I know. Your supply of BS is amazingly deep.

Freedom of speech.

So the best thing you can say in support of your point is that you legally have a right to say it. Pretty weak.

I did not start this argument.

The thread says otherwise.

. Believe what you want and let me believe what I want, and move on.

I never said you couldn't believe what you want. I just think some of the things you believe are dumb.

As for moving on, perhaps you should to? You're the one who started a flame war, and now you're only defense seems to be "well, I'm allowed to think what I want", something that no one ever disputed. You're free to think any fool thing you want. But don't expect that you can say stupid things and not get push back. That's what discourse is.

This is going nowhere. I could reply to all your bullshit and stupid and dumb and foolish comments, but I choose not to anymore. The only comment I am going to make is making comments about bombing a country and repeatedly saying publicly that you want to erase a country are two very different things. If you don’t want to accept that, then I am also flogging a dead horse.

In conclusion:

1. Israel is the only Jewish country in the world that will stand for Jews, so I will always stand by it, and defend it unconditionally. I choose Israel. We don’t want another Holocaust. By the way, just this week was Holocaust remembrance day. It’s been 70 years.

2. Last year, I went to the March of the Living, which included a visit to Poland, during Holocaust Remembrance Day (that was very emotional), then 1 week later to Israel During Israel Independence Day (very emotional, but in another way). We visited the main concentration camps in Poland. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4647479,00.html

Meanwhile, you can keep on keeping on with your anti-Israel, pro-Iran, pro-Muslim nonsense.

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