Codependency Support Group

Codependency is defined as someone who exhibits too much, and often inappropriate, caring for another person's struggles. A codependent person may try to change, or feel shame about their most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with the other person's struggles. If you are on a journey towards self-love, this support group is for you. Join us and find others...

Higher power question

I'm working the 12-step program for codependency; I've never done the steps before; I've gotten to Step 2 and am struggling with it and would like to hear some feedback.

First, I understand that the concept of a higher power doesn't have to be of God and that it can and should be of my own understanding. Accepting the idea of a higher power isn't where my difficulty lies. Here are my issues:

1.) While I have no trouble conceiving of a higher power, I do have trouble conceiving of one that has any interest in whether or not my recovery goes well. Why would a higher power care whether or not I am returned to sanity, which in some ways, is a subjectively personal judgement of my own life any way?

2.) One of my concepts of God is that he has set up this world as a test for us to see how we handle mortality and the human condition. This theological model would require that God never intervene in our lives (it would defeat the purpose, right?)

3.) Last but not least, the real toughie: I've always believed that a person creates his own reality and that his situation in life is the result of his own actions and choices. Doesn't turning things over to a higher power conflict with this view? Aren't we responsible for our own lives?

As you can probably tell, I am pretty conflicted with this step, so any insight would be appreciated.

I may be wrong but doesn't it mean in turning over to a higher power that you admit you are helpless with your addiction and have no power over it- sort of the first stage of breaking an addiction is to admit you have a problem. I have trouble in a higher power too

I hope you are working the steps with a sponsor, because guidance is so critical in successfully working them. In my opinion (and I speak only for me and not for CoDA or anyone else in that program), Step Two is about &quot;coming&quot; to believe. It takes much time in program, in my experience, to reach a place of belief in a higher power, if that is not already in place prior to recovery. I have a higher power whom I have come to believe loves me deeply, personally and cares very much about my sanity and the unmanageability of my life. That experience is a very personal journey and may take time for you to actually be able to see all the ways that love has been manifested for you in your life.

Secondly, what worked for me was to be willing to set aside my theological beliefs long enough to grasp a spiritual concept, that the higher power that works in my life is the essence of love, not indiffence, manipulation or cold detachment. In recovery, we can use any concept that works to be that higher power, it doesn't have to be the God of our current understanding. It can be the love of the group, a loving force or the ocean (or anything else). The importance of step two is not to find God, but to begin to believe in something bigger than yourself that cares for you with deep understanding and gentleness. My sponsor's love was the first understanding I came to, with respect to a higher power, because the God of my childhood was an indifferent, manipulative terrorist who enjoyed watching me &quot;fail&quot; his tests. I retired that concept a long time ago. Today after many years in recovery, I have a differnt God of my understanding.

Thirdly, I believe that my higher power whom I call God, certainly allows me to live with the choices I make and to suffer or enjoy the consequences of them. But, today, I am willing to set my ego aside long enough to ask for direction, integrity and love as I make my decisions. They are my decisions, but they are guided by a willingness to live my life according to God's will for me, which I believe to be, a desire that I live and make choices in a way that results in me being happy, joyous and free. When I operate in my own fear, ego and self-doubt or low self-esteem, as I often do, I am anything but happy, joyous and free. I always have a choice to pick my misery back up and exchange it for a better way, that leads to a better outcome. That's how it works for me.

Thanks for the response, Grace. It's very helpful. I feel as though every way I try to conceive of a higher power, I find myself in some sort of spiritual paradox.

Let's say I posit the love of the CODA group. Well, I do believe that CODA and the people in it care for me and want me to recover, but their love is really an abstract concept, not a true sentient power with which I can communicate.

If I appeal to that higher power for guidance, it seems as if what I'm really doing is trying to figure out what I think such a higher power would tell me if it were a sentient being.

That might be helpful in its own way, but aren't I really just using a different framework to pose the question to myself?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't think I can exercise a choice over what I do or don't believe- do you remember what prompted you to believe that there was a power separate from yourself that had both the desire and the capability to affect your life for the better?

If you don't mind, I'd like to recommend a book which addresses your questions. The author approaches those classic questions with intellect and depth. The book is: The Reason For God; Belief in an Age of Skepticism, by Timothy Keller.

I have read about the origins of the first 12 step program which was of course Alcoholics Anonymous. And the person who started it spent some time in therapy with the famous psychologist Carl Jung. In the end Jung told him that the only way he could cure himself was to turn himself over to a higher spiritual power.

Incidentally Jung whoose father was a preacher liked the idea of faith in a higher power but grew up in opposition to the idea of organised religion, believing that it was not in the realm of human institutions to determine how people worshiped god. I also concur with Jung on this believing that our faith is much more important than any alignment to a particular church.

Jung believed in the concept of a joint unconcious which was shared by all people and animals and was at the same time within all life and yet outside it in a higher dimension so to speak. Later in his life came to believe that this mystical unconcious and god were the same thing.

If you accept this view then God othe the higher power, whatever you wish to call it is naturally interested in the well being of us all. Yes we all have freedom of choice but we can choose to let god work through us as god is anyway within us. I believe to find god we must look inside ourselves rather than outside.

Interestingly this view does not in anyway contradict my own belief in Jesus and the holy spirit because the part within us which is god is the holy spirit.

Finally another facet that this particular way of looking at things lends to me is that when I am out by myself in the country feel a natural connection to all the trees, flowers and plants around me I feel that I am at one with all life.

I was truly not trying to be cryptic. The working of the 12 steps is an exercise of the heart, not so much an exercise of your intellect. You may be making it more difficult than it needs to be. Being willing to be willing to accept and believe in a higher power is the first step in that process. Also, keep going to meetings and keep listening how others found their way to believe. It doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't happen by &quot;figuring it out&quot;.

Thanks, that one helps a lot more- at least it helps in understanding the principle behind the step.

On another level, it's kind of discouraging. I know myself pretty well and have serious doubts in my ability to believe something based on faith without being able to verify it with my own experience.

I can believe in God; obviously the universe got here somehow- certainly through a power greater than me, but a kind, benevolent power that wishes me happiness and will actively intervene to provide me guidance upon request? My own experience not only doesn't support that idea but seems to flatly contradict it.

That's perfectly okay. If you are in CoDA, the only requirement for membership is a desire for loving and healthy relationships, not a strong faith in a higher power who is loving and kind. That will come in due time. You are right where you are supposed to be!!

I've relearned what God meant to me....I was raised with a &quot;fear of God&quot;...Patriarchal, punitive etc...and somehow, I got all that mixed up with my dad...who was an abuser...

Once I knew that was false, all the stuff I learned about a loving God, a merciful one, a helping God, my sould exploded....I run things by my God everyday...but it's up to me, to execute my life....and to be responsible for my choices....

I can tell Tanuge, you are prob left brain and very analytical...which is great, for some things...this is about faith, the unknown....which prob drives you crazy....

Sometimes, I have to &quot;act as if&quot;...I believe or I matter, or that I'm lovable...until it becomes my reality...and it has, over many years, by the grace of God....

&quot;Fake it till you make it&quot; is another good one....I do THAT all the time...and it works...

If you are able to, just let go....lighten up, stop over thinking it....you'll get there, one way are another...

Thanks for the insight. I've prayed and talked to my sponsor a lot the last few days- weeks actually, but try as I might, I just can't get a sense of the type of higher power that I hear people talk about.

I started in CODA six months ago when my wife told me she was moving in with another man (totally out of the blue- had no idea it was coming). In the wake of it, I had a miserable, fear-oriented view of my future as a lonely, withdrawn guy with low self-esteem- kind of like Milhouse van Houten's dad (from the Simpsons).

Five months later, I feel like this is no longer a fear but my current reality. I was hoping that CODA would help me to learn a better way to live, but when I talk to my higher power, the answer I sense is that this is just my lot in life, that I should learn to live with it, and that I should be grateful that I have a job and don't live in Guinea or Afgahnistan.

After spending three months on the first step, I know that I can't go back and I'm scared of how bad it might get if I gave up the steps- it's just that when I hear people talk about how working the steps has transformed their lives, I feel like I have a lot more differences than similarities.

One of the things I remind my sponsees, is that it took 30 or 40 years for them to get where they are that landed them in CoDA or AlAnon, and it is unrealistic to expect that they are going to turn all that around in a day. My rule of thumb and experience after 18 years is that one often does see some positive changes early on, but it takes 3 to 5 years of hard work to really see &quot;transformation&quot;, depending on the level of damage and wreckage that occurred.

Yes, probably. Feelings of hopelessness, a creeping certainly that all of my worst fears will become self-fulfilling prophecies, it's certainly not terminal optimism.

I know what you mean about pain being a friend. Ironically, a few months ago when I was at my darkest point is, I was also the most hopeful. I was afraid I'd turn in to Milhouse's dad, but I also thought I might end up better off- the sense of transition and of anything being possible was very immediate.

Now, I feel like I've squandered all of that catalytic pain, that I've just drifted down into a &quot;I'm pretty sad, but it could always be worse&quot; rut.

Today is my 25th birthday, to my somewhat lack of surprise I can see already no one really seems to care. I've always been the kinda person to make sure that everyone I Care about feels appreciated and knew somebody had their back. I can count 4 times this year when I Went out of my way to make sure a "friend" felt good on their birthday, especially if they got left hanging. Its early in the...

So my daughter, who will be 30 in a few months, says she thinks she has varicose veins, as she can't figure out what else it could be. Only in one leg, and is so bad it is hard to sleep at night. She is in excellent shape, really exercises a lot, and eats well... not at all overweight. Anyone else have any issues with this? I did find that it can go with PKD. She was reading that there are...

All content posted on this site is the responsibility of the party posting such content.
Participation on this site by a party does not imply endorsement of any other party's content,
products, or services. Content should not be used for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.