Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States

ObiHahn wrote:

Thanks for sharing your findings, this is a great read and very impressive research. I have to say all of your theories seem coherent and the pics to prove them are awesome.

retrogarde wrote:

Damn fine detective work!

Thanks guys. Too bad the easy parts are over! The other subtleties are far more hidden.

2 Quick notes before the weekend:-I didn't notice before, but the 'Ideal 8's" 870 doesnt have an extractor pin on the bolt carrier. Very curious... A phony perhaps?!?!?! Might not be a real 870 in there after all. Maybe a just a dummy/cast 870.

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Extractor.jpg [ 96.92 KiB | Viewed 8840 times ]

-There truly are never more than 4 'hero' rifles in any one scene at a time. Even when Frost racks and lays down the 10-hole in the armory, he lays it on top of only 3 other stacked rifles (which are presumably heroes, but the lighting is so bad its hard to confirm)

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Armory Stack.jpg [ 393.93 KiB | Viewed 8840 times ]

The moments leading up to the Ops battle is the time when 4 heroes appear on screen outside the armory. Even this is not certain. Ripley had a dummy prior to this moment and Hicks has a dummy right after this moment.

Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:52 pm

THAT guy

Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States

The search for better screen caps goes slowly, but I do have some more info/theories.

As I mentioned in the previous post, the "Ideal 8", despite looking as if it had a function grenade launcher, absolutely did NOT. I pointed out the lack of an extractor pin on the extractor bolt. I also just noticed this on the 'underside shot'.

No loading port, the SPAS cage is not even cut to accommodate loading of grenades, and a visible seam of the cast object filling the SPAS cage.

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Ideal 8 does not have real 870.jpg [ 133.94 KiB | Viewed 8634 times ]

It has been said the 10-hole was the only build that actually included a functional 870. I believe that to be true now more than ever. The "ideal 8" had a very nice casting of an 870 in there, but no chance it was real.

Also, I may have isolated a 6th 'hero'. For now I will call it the "Hive Hero" as it was most prominently featured in the first and last hive battle.

It was most clearly seen on Hicks' back (without mag) while trying to close the APC doors.

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Weathering 3.jpg [ 183.2 KiB | Viewed 8634 times ]

Prominent and unique features include -No 'tabs' on magazine area of shroud-Extra thick top lip on barrel vent. ALL other pulse rifles have very narrow/thin top lips.

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Hive Hero features.jpg [ 117.26 KiB | Viewed 8634 times ]

This rifle is also seen carried by Ripley in the stare-down with the queen. Thick topped barrel vent and no mag tabs are visible.

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Hive Primary Hero.jpg [ 190.35 KiB | Viewed 8634 times ]

Fun fact, this essentially of proves Ripley had 4 different rifles in the hive seen! Look at the "hive hero" image above. It has the locator tube duct taped to it.When you see the "short Nozzle" in her hands, there is no locator tube. The Barrel vent is also different as the rear "circle' is further forward and the top lip is not as thick. That means she used the 10-hole in the elevator, the Hive Hero, the Short barrel, and a stunt all in that sequence.

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Hive seen Rifle #2.jpg [ 48.21 KiB | Viewed 8634 times ]

So I feel pretty confident saying the "Hive Hero" is different and unique from the "big square", "short nozzle", "Ideal 8" (very different vent), 10-hole, and "forward hero". That makes 6 plus 'stunts' so far.

Here is an 8-hole vent that DOES have a functional grenade launcher. So maybe one did exist. Or, maybe this one was 'upgraded'. With this video occurring so many years after the film, it is hard to say how much is 'untouched'. The vent is set fairly far back and the grenade launcher barrel is protruding a bit more than usual. Also it has no 'counter' so it is possible those arent even original shrouds. I haven't match any of those identifying features to a screen-cap in film.

-So theory #1: It is a functional 8-hole w/grenade launcher and I (we) just need to keep digging to match it.

-Theory #2 (a crazy theory?): What if it is the 'guts' to the 10 hole? Considering the shrouds and vent placement don't match any screen caps...maybe it was the 10-hole that had been brought out of retirement with new parts. This would assume a surviving 8-hole hadn't simply been upgraded prior to filming Alien 3, though.

Last edited by bigbisont on Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hi Harry... I note that has uneven shrouds (thicker on one side than the other)...

One thing to consider is the role of the theatrical Armourer...

Obviously, as I know you guys already know, so excuse me for summarising, but in any action scene with jumping or running around which did not involve firing or close up 'hero' working of the weapon, the actors would carry stunt versions... Because they don't want to risk damage or injuring actors etc...

So the armouries only supply firing versions for firing or close up hero work...

It stands to reason that the units had to be broken down to clean... Removal of shrouds etc... Thus the hex key bolt fastenings etc...

If I were BAPTY, I'd assemble a hero from the best of the remaining parts... And also during cleanings and reassembly, I wouldn't be surprised if vents etc were placed back incorrectly...

Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States

ilovethecorps wrote:

...

It stands to reason that the units had to be broken down to clean... Removal of shrouds etc... Thus the hex key bolt fastenings etc...

If I were BAPTY, I'd assemble a hero from the best of the remaining parts... And also during cleanings and reassembly, I wouldn't be surprised if vents etc were placed back incorrectly...

Damn good point. Be it 'put back incorrectly' or simply combining the best of the surviving bits to make the most impressive item, I agree odds are pretty good the rifle in this video is a combination of parts and not proof of a new and unique hero.

Check the underside shots of the shroud from both the Ideal 8 and harry's photo of the 'delta'/video rifle.

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Ideal 8 is Delta.jpg [ 92.54 KiB | Viewed 8440 times ]

Looks like a match to me (barring age and damage changes)

As much fun as the thought of Cameron having the 10-hole on his wall (untouched and perfect) is, I think this video is the 'ideal 8' with the 10-hole's grenade launcher attached (counter cover fell off at some point, vent put back on a hair too far backward when attaching the GL).

Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:39 pm

Buy It Now

Location: Wirral, Merseyside

Quote:

Be it 'put back incorrectly' or simply combining the best of the surviving bits to make the most impressive item, I agree odds are pretty good the rifle in this video is a combination of parts and not proof of a new and unique hero

Any thoughts on when this could have taken place? It seems strange that any rifle supplied by Bapty for A3 would have a functional Remington inside it?

Is it possible that this rifle is a Frankenstein assembled later, pureley as an example of a 'complete' Pulse Rifle, and never actually used in any production?

I think you have a point there... It is possible Bapty reassembled a full hero for Alien 3 as they would know the stipulations for a PR from the previous film... But as stated above, I reckon they've just made a good firer out of a couple of Heros...

Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States

ilovethecorps wrote:

...Another interesting point is that in the photos above, Vasquez seems to be carrying a VP70 in her holster and not her S&W? And has her PR even got a sling?...

It is actually her model 39. The angle does hide most of the features but you can see the exposed hammer on the rear poking out and on the front the silver nub under the barrel opening is the pin the slide...slides on?

Her rifle definitely does not have a sling though. I noticed the sling disappears when she is in the vents. I guess being crouched low and firing a heavy 'hero' was complicated enough without risking tripping or getting tangled in the sling?

Another crystal clear, and totally unrelated, thing this pic shows is more proof that Vaz's chest rig belt/straps are made of the sling material. Therefore it was probably green (which when wet, low light, and the blue filter all combine to look black on screen).

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