I heard from other sources that the stipend is counted toward the annual cost of attendance (i.e. both tuition and living expenses) and if the stipend (before taxes) is more than or equal to the cost of living budget you can not borrow any more in federal loans. This sucks (if it is true) as you will come out short after taxes are deducted. So it seems some schools don't view the stipend as taxable income/wages and tack it onto your total award. Anyone have this happen to them or know if it is true or not?

I heard from other sources that the stipend is counted toward the annual cost of attendance (i.e. both tuition and living expenses) and if the stipend (before taxes) is more than or equal to the cost of living budget you can not borrow any more in federal loans. This sucks (if it is true) as you will come out short after taxes are deducted. So it seems some schools don't view the stipend as taxable income/wages and tack it onto your total award. Anyone have this happen to them or know if it is true or not?

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Nope. Unless your school includes that in your student budget.

Mine didn't. You can always call the Fin Aid folks and ask them. I think that most of them don't care past tuition. If they did, that would indeed suck.

Up to the max for the non-tuition portion. You're ineligible for the portion of the Stafford allocated for tuition and are only eligible up to the amount set by your school for living expenses.

For someone on HPSP, between the money from the Stafford (usually about $15-23k/yr for most schools, depending on cost of living) and the monthly stipend, there's a good bit unless you have a gaggle of kids plus non-working spouse.

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Yea, I forgot to mention that. Your school will obviously get money direct from the military, and thus not allow you to take that amount out as a loan.

Up to the max for the non-tuition portion. You're ineligible for the portion of the Stafford allocated for tuition and are only eligible up to the amount set by your school for living expenses.

For someone on HPSP, between the money from the Stafford (usually about $15-23k/yr for most schools, depending on cost of living) and the monthly stipend, there's a good bit unless you have a gaggle of kids plus non-working spouse.

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Thats more than enough...no gaggle, only one yet to come, but I would like for my wife to remain non-working so the kid has at least one parent present. Again, thanks for the insight.

HPSP pays for tuition, required fees, equipment, and books, and gives you a stipend of $1982 per month for 10.5 months. The other 1.5 months is on Active Duty and you get O-1 pay.

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I think I get it...
So if my school's "student budget" for living expenses, etc. equates to around $1500 a month, the Military will give me the stipend, but I am responsible for taking out Stafford loans to get said $1500/mo IN ADDITION to my stipend (I have a wife and 2 kids to provide for)?

I think I get it...
So if my school's "student budget" for living expenses, etc. equates to around $1500 a month, the Military will give me the stipend, but I am responsible for taking out Stafford loans to get said $1500/mo IN ADDITION to my stipend (I have a wife and 2 kids to provide for)?

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As I understand it, the student budget is just what the school thinks you would need to live on...you arent obligated to take out any loans if you dont need them...but with a wife and 2 kids you will probably will need more than the stipend. Figure out your monthly budget during school and take out what you need in loans as was discussed earlier this month in the above posts.

Youre going to need to see which one aligns with your goals/aspirations.

I would imagine peoples reasons for choosing HPSP over FAP for most are the fact that HPSP is immediately seeing the money and support rather than living in debt for 4 years and then getting some relief. Immediate gratification...its the American way. Many people in America sign up for things without the foresight to consider their life in 5-10 years.

For me personally, the cons of HPSP arent really a concern for me. Both my wife and I come from multigenerational AF families and are both very aware of the lifestyle that comes along with service. My mother is currently an AD AF nurse and in addition to her perspective I have met many military doctors and the majority of my medical experience has involved current or former military docs.

Also I am interested in a primary care specialty so I am not too concerned about being stuck in a GMO tour and not getting my residency of choice. On that note, I am aware that I may change my mind and decide to pursue a more competetive specialty. I have met many flight surgeons, both those who hated and enjoyed their GMO tours, and spending a few years at this doesnt worry me.

The financial stability during school is a nice perk too, especially with a family to support.

Youre still a few years from med school so make sure you really investigate military medicine and military life in general before you sign up for the financial perks. Talk with as many active duty docs as possible and not just the ones on SDN or those that the recruiter sends you to.

Youre going to need to see which one aligns with your goals/aspirations.

I would imagine peoples reasons for choosing HPSP over FAP for most are the fact that HPSP is immediately seeing the money and support rather than living in debt for 4 years and then getting some relief. Immediate gratification...its the American way. Many people in America sign up for things without the foresight to consider their life in 5-10 years.

For me personally, the cons of HPSP arent really a concern for me. Both my wife and I come from multigenerational AF families and are both very aware of the lifestyle that comes along with service. My mother is currently an AD AF nurse and in addition to her perspective I have met many military doctors and the majority of my medical experience has involved current or former military docs.

Also I am interested in a primary care specialty so I am not too concerned about being stuck in a GMO tour and not getting my residency of choice. On that note, I am aware that I may change my mind and decide to pursue a more competetive specialty. I have met many flight surgeons, both those who hated and enjoyed their GMO tours, and spending a few years at this doesnt worry me.

The financial stability during school is a nice perk too, especially with a family to support.

Youre still a few years from med school so make sure you really investigate military medicine and military life in general before you sign up for the financial perks. Talk with as many active duty docs as possible and not just the ones on SDN or those that the recruiter sends you to.

I think its important to point out that the FAP annual bonus went from something like $17k to $40k a couple of years ago. Before this change the FAP didn't seem as enticing from a financial perspective. I'm a Med4 HPSP student, and had this higher annual bonus been around when I was deciding I probably would've went FAP instead.

Hello everyone, I'm currently am M1 who's considering applying for the AF HSPS for years 2-4. After looking into it, my only hesitation is the whole residency thing. I'm by no means certain as to the specialty I want to pursue, but am very interested in ER med. I've heard so many conflicting things as to how the residency process occurs in this program, that I'm not sure what is accurate.

My main worry is being told what I'm going to specialize in, as I'm aware that residencies are doled out according to the needs of the Air Force. I also am not too interested in the GMO. Just trying to get some information from people who have gone through this process. How likely is it to obtain your choice of residency? What dictates whether a person does GMO or not?

Hello everyone, I'm currently am M1 who's considering applying for the AF HSPS for years 2-4. After looking into it, my only hesitation is the whole residency thing. I'm by no means certain as to the specialty I want to pursue, but am very interested in ER med. I've heard so many conflicting things as to how the residency process occurs in this program, that I'm not sure what is accurate.

My main worry is being told what I'm going to specialize in, as I'm aware that residencies are doled out according to the needs of the Air Force. I also am not too interested in the GMO. Just trying to get some information from people who have gone through this process. How likely is it to obtain your choice of residency? What dictates whether a person does GMO or not?

Thanks for your help.

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Given the above concerns why are you considering the AF? The AF and USN have the lowest likelihood of getting your desired residency without a GMO - I don't think there is any disagreement on this point.

Hello everyone, I'm currently am M1 who's considering applying for the AF HSPS for years 2-4. After looking into it, my only hesitation is the whole residency thing. I'm by no means certain as to the specialty I want to pursue, but am very interested in ER med. I've heard so many conflicting things as to how the residency process occurs in this program, that I'm not sure what is accurate.

My main worry is being told what I'm going to specialize in, as I'm aware that residencies are doled out according to the needs of the Air Force. I also am not too interested in the GMO. Just trying to get some information from people who have gone through this process. How likely is it to obtain your choice of residency? What dictates whether a person does GMO or not?

Thanks for your help.

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I just wanted to clarify the bolded statement above. None of the branches can force you into a specialty that you don't ask for. This is not to say that you're guaranteed your specialty of choice, you can always be put into an intern year (transitional, medicine, surgery) followed by a GMO tour if you don't match into the field you wanted. After 2 years as a GMO you can reapply to the military match (probably with enhanced competitiveness) or choose serve out your committment as a GMO. Notably, Emergency med is much more competitive in the military than in the civilian world. Army is probably you best bet to get straight through training, but (I believe) is also your highest likelihood to be used as a GMO after specialty training (would prob feel like a misuse of your skills).

HPSP pays for tuition, required fees, equipment, and books, and gives you a stipend of $1982 per month for 10.5 months. The other 1.5 months is on Active Duty and you get O-1 pay.

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I'm currently an O-3, but HPSP will obviously take me back to O-1 for four years. During my 45 days of summer duty, will I retain the O-3 w/14 yrs. pay (with 2d Lt rank) or will I be paid O-1 w/0 yrs. pay?

I'm currently an O-3, but HPSP will obviously take me back to O-1 for four years. During my 45 days of summer duty, will I retain the O-3 w/14 yrs. pay (with 2d Lt rank) or will I be paid O-1 w/0 yrs. pay?

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You will get save pay and your base pay will be O3 over 14. Your BAH will be O1 with/without deps.

Hey guys. I'm seriously considering the USAF HPSP route. I want to go to an expensive out of state school, and the scholarship looks like it will be a good deal for me. However, I do have a question that when I asked my recruiter he seemed to tiptoe around.

Say I put in for a residency and do not get picked up. Do my internship year, and follow that up with a year in flight surgery. Its my understanding that my remaining active duty obligation is 3 years at that point.

But say then that I land a military residency which lasts for an additional four years. Is my active duty still only three more years following residency, thus fulfilling the HPSP requirements? Or did I just tack on an additional year because of the length of the military residency (total of 5 active duty years)?

Wow, that's like exactly opposite of what my recruiter said.
First he said Flight Surgery is extremly unlikely. However right now I want to do EM which I've heard is hard to place in the AF and in 4 years, who knows what? I might be goin for Rads or something.

Secondly he said that Flight Surgery is a two year, but the first year is considered your internship year. So it would really only delay my residency by a year. Is that wrong as well?

Finally he said that a military residency shouldn't tack on any more time, but I was pretty skeptical of that because I knew that even without a GMO tour that longer residencies = longer committments.

I really want to go to this out of state school, but what's the point of going to a better school if it could end up delaying/hurting my career in the long run because I have to go HPSP to pay for it?

Wow, that's like exactly opposite of what my recruiter said.
First he said Flight Surgery is extremly unlikely. However right now I want to do EM which I've heard is hard to place in the AF and in 4 years, who knows what? I might be goin for Rads or something.

Secondly he said that Flight Surgery is a two year, but the first year is considered your internship year. So it would really only delay my residency by a year. Is that wrong as well?

Finally he said that a military residency shouldn't tack on any more time, but I was pretty skeptical of that because I knew that even without a GMO tour that longer residencies = longer committments.

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Wow, um, your recruiter doesn't know crap. Respectfully.

Manning for flight surgeon billets sucks. If you want to do anything aside from primary care and don't have stellar board scores, then there is a good (maybe 33-50%, depending on the year and specialty) chance that you'll be a FS/GMO.

So say the .mil match didn't work out for you and they tagged you for a GMO tour. The GMO tour is almost always at least a 2-year tour. But before you can start the GMO time, you have to do a one year internship (Transitional, IM, surgery, whatever) so that you can get your general practitioner's license and function as a doctor in the .mil system.

So say you graduate med school in 2013. You don't get your residency and have to do a GMO tour. You would have to do a one year internship (which does NOT count towards your active duty commitment, but doesn't add to it either) and THEN you do your 2-year GMO tour. So after missing the match, you're basically looking at a minimum 3 year lag between graduating med school and doing a residency.

Oh, and longer residencies (i.e., Ortho, Rads, etc.) do tag extra time onto the back of your commitment, even if you did a GMO tour beforehand.

So yeah, if I were you I would just go the usual route of going into a civilian residency after med school, and not bother with the .mil until after you're a full-fledged attending. Trust me, any branch of the armed forces would welcome you with open arms, complete loan repayment and a full ticker-tape parade whenever you want to put on a uniform.

So what I'm getting out of this is that if I end up doing a GMO tour, the AF pretty much just got an extra year out of me, because aren't most residencies at least 3 year programs after your intern year?

So what I'm getting out of this is that if I end up doing a GMO tour, the AF pretty much just got an extra year out of me, because aren't most residencies at least 3 year programs after your intern year?

Am I correct in my understanding or mistaken somehow?

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Some are. Some residencies incorporate the intern year as part of their program. Read the fine print of that contract - you don't just hop into fulfilling your commitment after graduating medical school: you need that intern year done before you can be licensed. After the license is obtained, then your GMO/contract time starts.

And yeah, you essentially spend an extra year of your life doing the internship that the armed forces don't really tell you about.

GMO tours are doled out to Interns who have not placed in a residency program right?

I understand that I have to do a military residency if I am offered one, but say I am not offered an AF residency for EM. I'm still able to apply in the civilian sector right?

Essentially doesn't this give me a larger pool of residency programs to choose from than a non military student?

Also, if I don't place in a military residency, but do in a civilian residency they can't make me do a GMO tour right? Couldn't I opt to be a civilian for a few years, complete my residency, then come back in as a board certified doc to complete my four year committment all in one go?

BTW, I just want to take the time to thank you guys for answering all these questions for me. I just found out that little bit of information about how GMO tours coupled with a residency can possibly add an extension to what is already a 12 year long contract or so, and I'm having to re-evaluate my plans which I thought were set in stone. So once again thanks!

GMO tours are doled out to Interns who have not placed in a residency program right?

I understand that I have to do a military residency if I am offered one, but say I am not offered an AF residency for EM. I'm still able to apply in the civilian sector right?

Essentially doesn't this give me a larger pool of residency programs to choose from than a non military student?

Also, if I don't place in a military residency, but do in a civilian residency they can't make me do a GMO tour right? Couldn't I opt to be a civilian for a few years, complete my residency, then come back in as a board certified doc to complete my four year committment all in one go?

BTW, I just want to take the time to thank you guys for answering all these questions for me. I just found out that little bit of information about how GMO tours coupled with a residency can possibly add an extension to what is already a 12 year long contract or so, and I'm having to re-evaluate my plans which I thought were set in stone. So once again thanks!

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Bolds mine.
First bold, yes, you can apply to the civilian match, but you have to also get a deferment from the AF. Think of that as a permission slip to leave the AF for your residency. During that time, you get no money from the AF, then you come back in for your commitment time. Downside is that these deferments are not gauranteed.

This brings us to bold number 2. If you don't match AF and don't get a deferment, then you have to go the GMO route and perhaps reapply the next year, or do your payback time as a GMO and then separate to the civilian world where your experience as a bloodthirsty warrior doc (mild exaggeration) may give you some extra umph. As a side note, from what I've read here from people who have done the gmo tour, it can be a really awesome experience, though opposite opinions abound as well.

It is my advice, and what I did when I signed, to assume the worst at the outset. Assume that you will do a gmo tour. Assume that you will be deployed at least twice during 4 years of payback. If you can still be excited, then sign away. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

As far as being a bloodthirsty warrior doc goes... well I don't like to toot my own horn, but I have been known to PwN some nOoBs on the epic plains of Azeroth.

Secondly, the thought of a GMO doesn't really bother me nor do the deployments. I'm a single dude with no children. I want to see the world! One of the reasons I'm most interesed in the Air Force are the opportunities I will have to both serve my country and to do some travelling to exotic locals.

My only issue really at this point is that I don't like the idea of having my active duty obligation increased just to get a board certification if I do end up having to do a GMO tour first.

Financially I know in the long run I'll prob come out behind in HPSP (unless I go FP), and that's okay to a certain extent. However, if I do specialize each additional year in the military could possibly mean +100K more of lost wages.

If I do go HPSP and get stuck on a GMO tour, I'll prob take your advice and finish up all four doing GMO. Thanks!

As far as being a bloodthirsty warrior doc goes... well I don't like to toot my own horn, but I have been known to PwN some nOoBs on the epic plains of Azeroth.

Secondly, the thought of a GMO doesn't really bother me nor do the deployments. I'm a single dude with no children. I want to see the world! One of the reasons I'm most interesed in the Air Force are the opportunities I will have to both serve my country and to do some travelling to exotic locals.

My only issue really at this point is that I don't like the idea of having my active duty obligation increased just to get a board certification if I do end up having to do a GMO tour first.

Financially I know in the long run I'll prob come out behind in HPSP (unless I go FP), and that's okay to a certain extent. However, if I do specialize each additional year in the military could possibly mean +100K more of lost wages.

If I do go HPSP and get stuck on a GMO tour, I'll prob take your advice and finish up all four doing GMO. Thanks!

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You 100% sure that you'll be single 8 years from now? You never know who you'll meet during med school or internship. But sign onto the HPSP and you'll be certain that the AF controls wherever you live, and they couldn't care less as to whether that fits your significant other's plans.

The exotic locales you'll be visiting are typically sandy places where you don't want to advertise your military affiliation, since it makes you a target.

The best bases are not often given to the newbies. You gotta put in a few years first before you get those.

If you want to see the world, drop a couple of grand on a plane ticket and a Lonely Planet guidebook.

FYI - this is the speech I wish someone had given me 7 years ago. Fair warning is given: there is a very strong chance that you will wish you hadn't done HPSP in a few years. However it's your life, do what you believe is best. Good luck.

wowdoc, I would not take the HPSP if I were you. Just get loans to pay for med school then choose the type of residency you want. You can then join the military under your terms. The extra bonuses for physicians not obligated to the Air Force will exceed the monies you would receive from HPSP. The military can only hurt you in your path to becoming the type of physician you want to be--you said EM or radiology. Your chances of getting into these residencies will be significantly diminished if not impossible. Besides, there are some other residencies that are completely excluded for graduating medical students such as dermatology and orthopedic surgery.

wowdoc, I would not take the HPSP if I were you. Just get loans to pay for med school then choose the type of residency you want. You can then join the military under your terms. The extra bonuses for physicians not obligated to the Air Force will exceed the monies you would receive from HPSP. The military can only hurt you in your path to becoming the type of physician you want to be--you said EM or radiology. Your chances of getting into these residencies will be significantly diminished if not impossible. Besides, there are some other residencies that are completely excluded for graduating medical students such as dermatology and orthopedic surgery.

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In response to the statement that chances for obtaining such and such training will be diminished or impossible, while this may be true in the USAF it is much less so in the Army.

Graduating medical student in the AF are not completely excluded from ortho, I know someone who matched exactly that way. I also know of 2 AF students who matched right into EM, and one who matched into Rads. I also know that a med student matched into one of the two AF ophtho spots this year. I won't argue that certain specialties (ex. EM) are much more competitive in the AF than in the civilian match, and people should know that before taking HPSP. I like to keep it a little less dramatic though.

My financial aid office was worthless this morning. I asked them if they count the HPSP stipend towards total financial aid to the cost of attendance and they didn't know. I'm going to have to ask some HPSP folks in my class.

But, just so it's clear, do you HPSP folks out there get the monthly stipend in addition to Stafford/Plus loans? So let's say your total cost of attendance is $70k, $40k of which is tuition and fees. If you are getting HPSP, does that mean they cover the $40k, plus give you a stipend of ~$2k/month, and you can take out the $30k in loans?

As of right now, with a family to support and the ****ty economy with no jobs in sight, I'm thinking the military is the solution. But if they count the stipend as financial aid and subtract it from the cost of attendance then that's f*cking retarded and makes it pretty much worthless.

My financial aid office was worthless this morning. I asked them if they count the HPSP stipend towards total financial aid to the cost of attendance and they didn't know. I'm going to have to ask some HPSP folks in my class.

But, just so it's clear, do you HPSP folks out there get the monthly stipend in addition to Stafford/Plus loans? So let's say your total cost of attendance is $70k, $40k of which is tuition and fees. If you are getting HPSP, does that mean they cover the $40k, plus give you a stipend of ~$2k/month, and you can take out the $30k in loans?

As of right now, with a family to support and the ****ty economy with no jobs in sight, I'm thinking the military is the solution. But if they count the stipend as financial aid and subtract it from the cost of attendance then that's f*cking retarded and makes it pretty much worthless.

Sigh.

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I think that this is a school specific issue, so your case might be different than mine. However, at my school, the stipend is counted as financial aid so the army/AF pays for 40k of tuition and the stipend equals about 22k, so that would leave you about 8k to take out in loans. My school will not allow me to take out any additional funds unless it is for child care and you have to have receipts for the child care.

I think that this is a school specific issue, so your case might be different than mine. However, at my school, the stipend is counted as financial aid so the army/AF pays for 40k of tuition and the stipend equals about 22k, so that would leave you about 8k to take out in loans. My school will not allow me to take out any additional funds unless it is for child care and you have to have receipts for the child care.

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Wow that is terrible, my FA office just got back to me and said they treat HPSP stipends as salary and thus you're still eligible for the full loan amounts in addition to the stipend.

Ugh it would be the worst thing in the world to do HPSP and then wind up in the same exact economic situation...totally not worth it if that's the case, at least in my situation where I'm trying to support a family.

Ugh it would be the worst thing in the world to do HPSP and then wind up in the same exact economic situation...totally not worth it if that's the case, at least in my situation where I'm trying to support a family.

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If HPSP would "totally not worth it" if you didn't get the extra financial aid check each month, do not take HPSP.

I got bills to pay and mouths to feed, tens of thousands of dollars getting sent to my school via the department of education for their general fund does not make it any easier for me to do those things.

For those who has gone through your rotations, did your attendings and such treat you different knowing you are in a sense 'not interested' in civiliam medicine or attending their 'civilian residency'. I know you can possibly get deffered into a civilian res, but has anyone ever noticed an attutude change?

If anything, when I mention that I'm military, I get treated better. Your day-to-day attendings have no interest in spending their time recruiting for the program. They pay people for that. When most find out, they seem to garnish a respect for the idea of being a part of something greater than yourself. I also think they see the discipline it takes to keep up with staying in shape on top of the same studying other students have.

Quick question about ADTs while on HPSP. If I dont do COT until the summer between MS-1 and MS-2, does that give me the other 3 ADTs to use during years 3-4? Or do I give up an ADT by not attending COT the summer before school begins?

Looking at this summer, I can make more money continuing to work until I begin school in Aug than taking a month to go to COT, while thats 45 days of AD pay I could save till I am in school and use to rotate through a military facility.

For those who has gone through your rotations, did your attendings and such treat you different knowing you are in a sense 'not interested' in civiliam medicine or attending their 'civilian residency'. I know you can possibly get deffered into a civilian res, but has anyone ever noticed an attutude change?

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You'll be surprised by how many attendings are ex-military. Not nearly as many of the young attendings, but quite a few of the older ones.

I am going to be a first year med student in the fall and have recently gotten the army hpsp scholarship. I'll be going to school in philadelphia as wondering what the stipend amounts to after taxes. I am a resident of PA and am single w/o any dependents.

Also, anybody going to obc this summer? Have you received any information on it yet? I have filled out the information on the mods website but still haven't heard anything back yet. Thanks.

Ok. Thanks for clarifying that. I always thought my contract was only 6 years, but now I see its just 2 extra years of IRR. So can I do a 3 year residency and a 2 year fellowship and still owe back only 3 years of active duty making a total of 8 years?

3 years of HPSP = commissioned as 2d Lt during med school = in ready reserve/IRR component during med school = 3 yrs of IRR time burned during med school.

3 year residency = 3 years of HPSP active duty service commitment burned up while simultaneously accumulating 3 years add'l commitment due to residency = running on a treadmill = 3 years of ADSC remaining after residency, but 3 more years of your total 8 yr contract have been burned up

3 year tour as a full attending after residency = burning up the residency-added 3 commitment

Ok. Thanks for clarifying that. I always thought my contract was only 6 years, but now I see its just 2 extra years of IRR. So can I do a 3 year residency and a 2 year fellowship and still owe back only 3 years of active duty making a total of 8 years?

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No, the fellowship years adds additional commitment. I believe 1 for 1

3 years of HPSP = commissioned as 2d Lt during med school = in ready reserve/IRR component during med school = 3 yrs of IRR time burned during med school.

3 year residency = 3 years of HPSP active duty service commitment burned up while simultaneously accumulating 3 years add'l commitment due to residency = running on a treadmill = 3 years of ADSC remaining after residency, but 3 more years of your total 8 yr contract have been burned up

3 year tour as a full attending after residency = burning up the residency-added 3 commitment

No, the fellowship years adds additional commitment. I believe 1 for 1

I just signed my 4 year HPSP contract and it specifically points out that the time in med school does not count toward the IRR time. I dont know why the 3 year would be any different.

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Really? That is incredibly interesting, both because my contract sure as heck has no such clause, and since there are numerous AFIs, etc. that specifically state that your 8-year MSO starts on the day that you are commissioned. When you sign the HPSP, you are commissioned as a second lieutenant and placed into reserve (IRR) status during your med school education. Therefore, the clock starts on your 8 year MSO on your commissioning day.

Would you mind quoting the entire exact lines concerning IRR in your contract that you are referring to?