Thank you for posting your results. The pizza does look very tasty, especially when one considers how quickly the pizza was created.

Sometime this weekend I want to check all of the weight losses for your Buddy's cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas to see if there is consistency of the data. One way or the other, I'd like to see if I can take the slice weight data that dicepackage gave us and work backwards to a dough ball weight. I already know that this will not be an accurate analysis because the cheese and sauce are measured out and dispensed volumetrically and that can easily swing the numbers an ounce or so either direction. Since the pepperoni slices were under the cheese, I will assume that they retained their original weight even though the slices may have released fat during baking.

I assume that you used 8 ounces of the brick cheese. If so, the unbaked weight of the pizza was 9.67 ounces (dough) + 8 ounces (brick cheese) + 4.7 ounces (sauce) + 1.25 ounces (pepperoni slices) = 23.62 ounces. Based on a baked weight of 21.7 ounces, the weight loss was 1.92 ounces, or 8.13%.

Thank you for posting your results. The pizza does look very tasty, especially when one considers how quickly the pizza was created.

Sometime this weekend I want to check all of the weight losses for your Buddy's cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas to see if there is consistency of the data. One way or the other, I'd like to see if I can take the slice weight data that dicepackage gave us and work backwards to a dough ball weight. I already know that this will not be an accurate analysis because the cheese and sauce are measured out and dispensed volumetrically and that can easily swing the numbers an ounce or so either direction. Since the pepperoni slices were under the cheese, I will assume that they retained their original weight even though the slices may have released fat during baking.

I assume that you used 8 ounces of the brick cheese. If so, the unbaked weight of the pizza was 9.67 ounces (dough) + 8 ounces (brick cheese) + 4.7 ounces (sauce) + 1.25 ounces (pepperoni slices) = 23.62 ounces. Based on a baked weight of 21.7 ounces, the weight loss was 1.92 ounces, or 8.13%.

Peter

Peter,

The pizza crust was tasty even with how quickly the pizza was created. I saw that before when I also used 0.80% IDY, but that time the dough was left out at room temperature longer. I guess the higher dough temperature had something to do with how fast the dough fermented. Maybe the crusty edges and cheese also make this style of pizza taste better and hide somewhat how the crust tastes.

I really don’t think there will be much of any consistency of all the weight losses for my Buddy’s cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas. They were made differently in amounts of time, different ovens and other different variables. I hope you have some luck with the slice weight data that dicepackage gave us and can work backwards to a dough ball weight. I know Buddy’s sauce and cheese are all dispensed volumetrically, so that is another problem.

I found it strange, but the pepperoni couldn’t even be tasted much. I didn’t see any fat, or greasiness in the crumb. Do you think the crust on skin prevented any seepage of fat into the crumb? I wouldn’t think that is possible, but just wondered what you thought.

I did use 8 ounces of the Eddie’s brick cheese on this Buddy’s clone. When I see you post those baked weight loss numbers it always amazes me how different they are.

I found it strange, but the pepperoni couldn’t even be tasted much. I didn’t see any fat, or greasiness in the crumb. Do you think the crust on skin prevented any seepage of fat into the crumb? I wouldn’t think that is possible, but just wondered what you thought.

Norma,

I would say that a thin, dry "skin" on the surface of the Buddy's clone dough that was spread in the pan could help prevent or at least minimize seepage of the fat rendered out of the pepperoni during baking into the dough. It could also be that the Carando pepperoni does not lose much fat to its surroundings during baking. As you know, some brands of pepperoni lose more fat during baking than other brands.

I spent a good part of the afternoon combing through this thread to find all of the reports you prepared on all of your Buddy's clone pizzas. You are correct. The results were all over the place. I was especially looking for the results of your Buddy's clone cheese and pepperoni pizzas since it was slices of Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizzas that dicepackage purchased and described at Reply 127 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81715.html#msg81715. I identified three such pizzas that you made. Two were baked in your mother's home gas oven but you did not weigh one of those pizzas so I had no usable data for that pizza. The third Buddy's clone cheese and pepperoni pizza was the most recent one that you baked in your home electric oven on a stone, as you described starting with Reply 366 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg224063.html#msg224063. Actually, I thought that your last Buddy's clone pizza was perhaps the best clone to examine because it was a cheese and pepperoni pizza, it used only brick cheese, and it was baked at a temperature and for a time that was similar to what Buddy's is using based on all of our research to date.

When the dust settled, I concluded that the numbers suggested a typical weight loss value of around 8%.

I then returned to dicepackage's numbers as he set them out at Reply 127 referenced above. I recall when I first saw those numbers and how they stopped me dead in my tracks. After doing some quick analysis, it seemed to me that the amount of dough for a Buddy's 4-square pizza based on dicepackage's numbers was too low. That is the reason why I did not comment on his results. Even now, I have some reservations about dicepackage's data. For example, dicepackage purchased three cheese and pepperoni slices from Buddy's. He did not purchase a whole 4-square cheese and pepperoni pizza. I might add at this point that it is true that Buddy's sells slices of its cheese and pepperoni pizzas (there are two slice options listed on Buddy's menus), but it is not clear whether the slices are reheated. If so, that could cause the weight of a fresh slice to drop even further. Also, you will note that the photo of one of the slices that dicepackage purchased does not show much sauce.

After doing some number crunching based on the information that dicepackage provided, and assuming 8 ounces of brick cheese, 1.25 ounces of pepperoni slices, and 4 ounces of sauce, I concluded that the numbers suggested a dough ball weight of around 9 ounces for a Buddy's 4-square pizza. That would compare with the 9.77 ounces that you have been largely using and corresponds to a thickness factor of 0.112364. That value compares with a thickness factor value of 0.12213 for your 277-gram (9.77 ounces) Buddy's clone dough balls and the 0.1218 thickness factor that PizzaHog used. As you might imagine, a heavy or light hand on the cheese and/or sauce can swing the numbers in such a way as to make it difficult to accurately calculate the amount of dough that Buddy's uses to make its square pizzas.

I can't say that I have a great deal of confidence in the 9-ounce dough ball weight, for the reasons discussed above. A better example to work from would be a fresh Buddy's cheese and pepperoni 4-square pizza that is weighed as soon as possible after coming out of the oven. However, until such time as we are provided with better data, it may be worth making a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni 4-square pizza using 9 ounces of dough if only to see if that number is even workable. I believe the best venue for such a pizza would be your oven at market. I would use the same dough formulation and methods as were last used but with a 9-ounce dough ball.

I would say that a thin, dry "skin" on the surface of the Buddy's clone dough that was spread in the pan could help prevent or at least minimize seepage of the fat rendered out of the pepperoni during baking into the dough. It could also be that the Carando pepperoni does not lose much fat to its surroundings during baking. As you know, some brands of pepperoni lose more fat during baking than other brands.

Peter

Peter,

I didn’t think of it at the time when I ate two slices of the Buddy’s clone cheese and pepperoni pizza today, but I now recall that the Carando pepperoni doesn’t really oil off too much when making a pizza. I now recall using the Carando pepperoni at Steve’s in his WFO. The Carando pepperoni tastes almost like Vermont smoked pepperoni, cups like it does and gets crispy if it is used on the top of a pizza. I also think I used the Carando pepperoni in a baked in my moms gas oven, when I didn’t go to Steve’s home before because I though it might rain. I just asked my daughter, who also ate a slice of the Buddy’s clone today, if she noticed any pepperoni taste in that slice and she also said she didn’t really taste pepperoni. That is kind of weird because usually the Carando pepperoni is good in my opinion and does stand out.

Thanks for telling me maybe the thin, dry “skin” on the surface of the Buddy’s clone doughs might have helped, or minimize the seepage of any fat into the baking dough.

I spent a good part of the afternoon combing through this thread to find all of the reports you prepared on all of your Buddy's clone pizzas. You are correct. The results were all over the place. I was especially looking for the results of your Buddy's clone cheese and pepperoni pizzas since it was slices of Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizzas that dicepackage purchased and described at Reply 127 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81715.html#msg81715. I identified three such pizzas that you made. Two were baked in your mother's home gas oven but you did not weigh one of those pizzas so I had no usable data for that pizza. The third Buddy's clone cheese and pepperoni pizza was the most recent one that you baked in your home electric oven on a stone, as you described starting with Reply 366 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg224063.html#msg224063. Actually, I thought that your last Buddy's clone pizza was perhaps the best clone to examine because it was a cheese and pepperoni pizza, it used only brick cheese, and it was baked at a temperature and for a time that was similar to what Buddy's is using based on all of our research to date.

When the dust settled, I concluded that the numbers suggested a typical weight loss value of around 8%.

I then returned to dicepackage's numbers as he set them out at Reply 127 referenced above. I recall when I first saw those numbers and how they stopped me dead in my tracks. After doing some quick analysis, it seemed to me that the amount of dough for a Buddy's 4-square pizza based on dicepackage's numbers was too low. That is the reason why I did not comment on his results. Even now, I have some reservations about dicepackage's data. For example, dicepackage purchased three cheese and pepperoni slices from Buddy's. He did not purchase a whole 4-square cheese and pepperoni pizza. I might add at this point that it is true that Buddy's sells slices of its cheese and pepperoni pizzas (there are two slice options listed on Buddy's menus), but it is not clear whether the slices are reheated. If so, that could cause the weight of a fresh slice to drop even further. Also, you will note that the photo of one of the slices that dicepackage purchased does not show much sauce.

After doing some number crunching based on the information that dicepackage provided, and assuming 8 ounces of brick cheese, 1.25 ounces of pepperoni slices, and 4 ounces of sauce, I concluded that the numbers suggested a dough ball weight of around 9 ounces for a Buddy's 4-square pizza. That would compare with the 9.77 ounces that you have been largely using and corresponds to a thickness factor of 0.112364. That value compares with a thickness factor value of 0.12213 for your 277-gram (9.77 ounces) Buddy's clone dough balls and the 0.1218 thickness factor that PizzaHog used. As you might imagine, a heavy or light hand on the cheese and/or sauce can swing the numbers in such a way as to make it difficult to accurately calculate the amount of dough that Buddy's uses to make its square pizzas.

I can't say that I have a great deal of confidence in the 9-ounce dough ball weight, for the reasons discussed above. A better example to work from would be a fresh Buddy's cheese and pepperoni 4-square pizza that is weighed as soon as possible after coming out of the oven. However, until such time as we are provided with better data, it may be worth making a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni 4-square pizza using 9 ounces of dough if only to see if that number is even workable. I believe the best venue for such a pizza would be your oven at market. I would use the same dough formulation and methods as were last used but with a 9-ounce dough ball.

Peter

Peter,

Sorry you had to spend the better part of the afternoon combing though this thread to find all of the reports on my Buddy’s clone pizza. That must have been a chore.

I even forgot about dicepackage’s weighings of the three pepperoni slices. I had only recalled when he purchased a dough ball at Reply 287 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg125814.html#msg125814 I now recall dicepackage purchasing those three cheese and pepperoni slices and giving an average weight of what 4 slices might be since you provided the link. I think my brain is slowly dying with remembering everything that needs to be remembered in trying to clone a pizza. The picture of dicepackage’s pepperoni slice doesn’t even look like the cheese was browned at all. Wouldn’t you think that maybe his slice might not lost as much weight from the cheese? I also just looked at dicepackage’s post at Reply 114 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg79558.html#msg79558 and the cheese in those pictures do looked to be browned more. The sauce also looks thinner than what I applied today. I looked at dicepackage profile at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7327 and see he was here on the forum not too long ago. Maybe I will send him a PM to see if he still eats Buddy’s pizza and if he has gained anymore information about them.

Interesting what you picked out of my Buddy’s clone attempts and that those numbers suggested a typical weight loss value of around 8%.

I can see why you might have some reservations about the three slices of cheese and pepperoni dicepackage purchased. If the whole pie wasn’t weighed, the numbers sure could be off. There are just too many variables too since Buddy’s uses cheese and pepperoni volumetrically.

Thanks for telling me you decided on a 9 ounce dough ball weight from all of your efforts.

I need to decide tomorrow how much dough I need to mix for Tuesday in my Hobart. I want to use both sizes of my steel pans and try to make enough dough so my Hobart will mix the dough. I will make some 9 ounce dough balls. I really don’t have a lot of the brick cheese left, so probably only two of 8”x10” pizzas will be made with brick cheese and pepperoni. That block of brick cheese was 38.00 with shipping, so I don’t think I will purchase anymore brick cheese from Mandi cheese. That price is a little ridiculous for me to purchase it again.

As for the Carando pepperoni, to get a greater flavor impact you might try putting the slices on top of the cheese rather than under it, as Buddy's does for its Specialty pizza called the Detroiter (which also has some Parmesan shavings). A while back, I compared the Buddy's Nutrition information for slices of its cheese and pepperoni pizza and its Detroiter pizza and it appears that the same number of pepperoni slices may be used for a Detroiter pizza as for a cheese and pepperoni pizza of the same size. Also, I don't recall that you ever put the Vermont pepperoni slices under the cheese of one of your pizzas so your memory may be that the Vermont pepperoni was more flavorful than your Carando pepperoni slices bake under the cheese.

With respect to the brick cheese, maybe you can get a sample of the Foremost Dairy brick cheese for your future tests and maybe ultimately for use at market. And, if you can get a sample of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni product, you will move even closer to a real Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza.

As for the Carando pepperoni, to get a greater flavor impact you might try putting the slices on top of the cheese rather than under it, as Buddy's does for its Specialty pizza called the Detroiter (which also has some Parmesan shavings). A while back, I compared the Buddy's Nutrition information for slices of its cheese and pepperoni pizza and its Detroiter pizza and it appears that the same number of pepperoni slices may be used for a Detroiter pizza as for a cheese and pepperoni pizza of the same size. Also, I don't recall that you ever put the Vermont pepperoni slices under the cheese of one of your pizzas so your memory may be that the Vermont pepperoni was more flavorful than your Carando pepperoni slices bake under the cheese.

With respect to the brick cheese, maybe you can get a sample of the Foremost Dairy brick cheese for your future tests and maybe ultimately for use at market. And, if you can get a sample of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni product, you will move even closer to a real Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza.

Peter

I didn’t mean to imply that you might of thought dicepackage’s data was wrong. I just know when I slice a Buddy’s clone I won’t get my slices in equal weights and don’t think Buddy’s would either. I have a leftover slice and didn’t think to weigh it, or the other slices from yesterday, but believe if I would have, they might all weigh different weights. I did note the pizza box that dice package had his slices in, but didn’t know those are special containers, or a miniaturized “box” for its slices. I guess only dicepackage, or another member that has purchased just slices could only give the answer if the slices are reheated, or if the reheats are to be done at home. I guess some customers ask for reheats where other customers might want to do the reheat at home. I also saw the instructions for Buddy’s partially baked pizzas for their customers to follow for half-baked and frozen pizzas. I looked at that when I thought of purchasing a Buddy’s pizza.

You might recall what I posted about the Foremost Farms brick cheese at Reply 205 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222298.html#msg222298 Robin told me the only way the Foremost Farms brick cheese could be purchased is by special order and that amount would be 4,000 lbs. I don’t think Foremost Farms would just give me a sample of their brick cheese when I already told them there is no way I would be able to use that much brick cheese.

As for the Magherita coarse grind pepperoni and a sample, I had 3 customer service people trying to help me find the Magherita coarse grind pepperoni in my area and so far no luck. I did ask among all the other questions I did about the Magherita coarse grind pepperoni if I could request a sample. All of the customer service reps had kept going over my email and none of them even mentioned a sample, so really I don’t know if I will be able to obtain a sample. There is going to be another salesman that calls me this week since he was on vacation last week.

If I put the Carando pepperoni on top of the cheese, rather than under it, won’t that also affect the final bake weight and then be more trouble to figure out if any of my cheese and pepperoni Buddy’s clone are similar in final bake weights? I would like to try a Detroiter specialty pizza, but then wouldn’t I also have to use shaved Parmesan cheese in combination with the brick cheese? I do have hard Parmesan cheese at market I could use. I also could use my regular pepperoni under the cheese if you think that might be a better option.

I never put the Carando pepperoni slices under the cheese until this thread, and that was only on my attempt yesterday and when I used the Carando pepperoni at my moms home, I used more pepperoni than I did yesterday at my moms home. There was a nice pepperoni taste in those 2 Buddy’s clone attempts at my moms home.

You might recall what I posted about the Foremost Farms brick cheese at Reply 205 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222298.html#msg222298 Robin told me the only way the Foremost Farms brick cheese could be purchased is by special order and that amount would be 4,000 lbs. I don’t think Foremost Farms would just give me a sample of their brick cheese when I already told them there is no way I would be able to use that much brick cheese.

Somehow I must have missed Reply 205. Either that, or I suspected that you would have no problem getting a sample because you already use some of the Foremost Farms cheeses. The Crystal Lakes cheeses are good cheeses and the specs for their brick cheese are similar to the specs for the Foremost brick cheese product.

If I put the Carando pepperoni on top of the cheese, rather than under it, won’t that also affect the final bake weight and then be more trouble to figure out if any of my cheese and pepperoni Buddy’s clone are similar in final bake weights? I would like to try a Detroiter specialty pizza, but then wouldn’t I also have to use shaved Parmesan cheese in combination with the brick cheese? I do have hard Parmesan cheese at market I could use. I also could use my regular pepperoni under the cheese if you think that might be a better option.

I was only thinking of a way for you to get more flavor out of your Carando pepperoni, by letting the top heat char the edges of the pepperoni slices and maybe capture the fat released from the pepperoni slices. Since you did not mention that you used the Carando brand of pepperoni for the Buddy's clone pizzas that you baked in your mother's oven, I did not know that you used that product under the cheese. I believe that you only said that the brand of pepperoni was one that Steve got for you in stick form. For our purposes in reverse engineering and cloning the Buddy's dough, I think we should stick with the pepperoni under the cheese, whatever the brand of pepperoni you choose to use. The pepperoni brand at this point is not particularly critical so long as you use 1.25 ounces of it. But none of this should stop you from trying a Detroiter pizza, with shaved Parmesan and all. You, and possibly future customers, might even like that better.

Somehow I must have missed Reply 205. Either that, or I suspected that you would have no problem getting a sample because you already use some of the Foremost Farms cheeses. The Crystal Lakes cheeses are good cheeses and the specs for their brick cheese are similar to the specs for the Foremost brick cheese product.

I was only thinking of a way for you to get more flavor out of your Carando pepperoni, by letting the top heat char the edges of the pepperoni slices and maybe capture the fat released from the pepperoni slices. Since you did not mention that you used the Carando brand of pepperoni for the Buddy's clone pizzas that you baked in your mother's oven, I did not know that you used that product under the cheese. I believe that you only said that the brand of pepperoni was one that Steve got for you in stick form. For our purposes in reverse engineering and cloning the Buddy's dough, I think we should stick with the pepperoni under the cheese, whatever the brand of pepperoni you choose to use. The pepperoni brand at this point is not particularly critical so long as you use 1.25 ounces of it. But none of this should stop you from trying a Detroiter pizza, with shaved Parmesan and all. You, and possibly future customers, might even like that better.

Peter

Peter,

I did tell Robin that I do use Foremost Farms mozzarellas on my regular pizzas. I probably could have gotten a sample of Foremost Farms brick cheese if they produced it in smaller quantities. I guess Buddy’s would be able to use that large amount of brick cheese. As you saw Robin did tell me she was sorry she couldn’t help more.

They do carry Crystal Lakes cheeses at my local supermarkets, but I haven’t seen any brick cheese. Since you told me the specs for Crystal Farms brick cheese is similar to the Foremost Farms brick cheese I can try to contact them. I didn’t even know Crystal Farms produced brick cheese. Thanks or telling me that information.

I understand what you are saying now why you were telling me to try the Carando pepperoni on the top of the cheese. I did only say in the two Buddy’s clones (at my moms) that the pepperoni I used was a pepperoni Steve had got for me. I didn’t mention the brand of pepperoni.

I will stick with using pepperoni under the cheese for the purposes of reverse engineering and cloning the Buddy’s dough.

Since Norma is using a high yeast dough (0.80% IDY) and a targeted finished dough temperature of around 90 degrees F, and a room temperature fermentation of only a couple hours or so, I'd like to see if 9 ounces of dough produces a dough with above average height.

My original thinking was that Norma was using an amount of dough--around 9 3/4--ounces, that seemed reasonable. I might have rounded it off to 10 ounces for ease of scaling in a commercial environment.

Now I am confused. I am not trying an emergency dough at market on Tuesday, but might try one next weekend at home.

What I am confused about it should I scale my dough balls to 9 ounces for the larger batch of Buddy’s clone dough I plan to make at market tomorrow for my 8“x10“ steel pans? I plan on using the smaller steel pans and the larger steel pans at market.

Now I am confused. I am not trying an emergency dough at market on Tuesday, but might try one next weekend at home.

What I am confused about it should I scale my dough balls to 9 ounces for the larger batch of Buddy’s clone dough I plan to make at market tomorrow for my 8“x10“ steel pans? I plan on using the smaller steel pans and the larger steel pans at market.

Norma,

That is up to you. If you want to use the Buddy's clone dough formulation that you have been using, with 277 grams of dough for your 8" x 10" pan, and scale that up to more pizzas (more pans), you can do that. It doesn't have to be an emergency dough. For your larger pan (10" x 14"), you can use the thickness factor for the same dough and scale up the dough that way using the expanded dough calculating tool.

The 9-ounce dough ball experiment can await next weekend. That amount may not the best one to use for a non-emergency dough.

That is up to you. If you want to use the Buddy's clone dough formulation that you have been using, with 277 grams of dough for your 8" x 10" pan, and scale that up to more pizzas (more pans), you can do that. It doesn't have to be an emergency dough. For your larger pan (10" x 14"), you can use the thickness factor for the same dough and scale up the dough that way using the expanded dough calculating tool.

The 9-ounce dough ball experiment can await next weekend. That amount may not the best one to use for a non-emergency dough.

I really don’t know if I figured out the formulations right for 3 large dough balls and 5 small dough balls, but I did combine them into one batch. I used a larger bowl residue compensation than the last time.

If I did do the formulations right, I think my Kitchen Aid mixer mixes better than my Hobart mixer, or I didn’t have enough dough to mix in the Hobart. The last time I mixed the emergency dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer there was no extra flour used to ball the dough.

I usually always mix on speed one in the Hobart, but did use speed two today after the dough did climb the dough hook.

Incase anyone is interested, these are the print out sheets from the expanded dough calculations tool for the dough batches using the 8”x10” pans and the 10”x14” pans for 5 dough balls and 3 dough balls with a bowl residue compensation of 2.5%. Over 6 lbs. of dough was mixed yesterday in one batch. Usually a little over 6 lbs. of dough can be mixed with the Hobart, but I don’t know about higher hydration doughs. I thought I would post the print out sheets incase I did something wrong in putting numbers in the expanded dough calculation tool. I used lbs. to measure out the ingredients on my market scale yesterday.

The small dough balls were scaled at 277 grams and the larger dough balls were scaled at 1 lb.

I'm glad that you posted the dough formulations you used. Your entries into the expanded dough calculating tool are correct but what puzzles me is how you ended up with only 16 ounces for the dough for the 10" x 14" pan. That is less than specified in the dough calculating tool, even with the higher bowl residue compensation value. Did you mean 18 ounces?

There is also another wrinkle in the amount of dough. As you might recall from Reply 470 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg220496/topicseen.html#msg220496, Buddy's told us that they use twice the amount of dough for the larger pan as for the smaller pan. The numbers you entered for the large size Buddy's clone should work similarly to the smaller size Buddy's clone because the same thickness factor is used, but technically you should have used 2 x 977 grams, or 19.54 ounces of dough for the larger pan. That was an oversight on our part. Based on what Buddy's told us in Reply 470 referenced above, I'm not sure that even Buddy's, or at least the folks who respond to email inquiries, know that the sizes of the slices in the two size pans are not the same.

I'm glad that you posted the dough formulations you used. Your entries into the expanded dough calculating tool are correct but what puzzles me is how you ended up with only 16 ounces for the dough for the 10" x 14" pan. That is less than specified in the dough calculating tool, even with the higher bowl residue compensation value. Did you mean 18 ounces?

There is also another wrinkle in the amount of dough. As you might recall from Reply 470 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg220496/topicseen.html#msg220496, Buddy's told us that they use twice the amount of dough for the larger pan as for the smaller pan. The numbers you entered for the large size Buddy's clone should work similarly to the smaller size Buddy's clone because the same thickness factor is used, but technically you should have used 2 x 977 grams, or 19.54 ounces of dough for the larger pan. That was an oversight on our part. Based on what Buddy's told us in Reply 470 referenced above, I'm not sure that even Buddy's, or at least the folks who respond to email inquiries, know that the sizes of the slices in the two size pans are not the same.

Peter

Peter,

I didn’t even recall that Buddy told us at Reply 470 that they use twice the amount of dough for a larger pans. My brain can’t retain everything that is in that thread.

Don’t be puzzled by what I did with using 1 lb. of dough for the 10”x14” pan. I just looked at the final dough ball weight and guessed at how much dough I should used for a 10”x14” pan. I should have posted the print out sheets before I went to market and asked you how much dough I should have used.

I don’t have time to resize all the pictures tonight because it is late and might not have time to resize them and do a report tomorrow because I have to take a family member for an operation, but if you look at these 3 pictures I did have time to resize you can see by using 1 lb. of dough the height amount doesn’t look too bad when using the 10”x14” pan. I can’t couldn’t even tell any difference in the crumb in the finished pizza, compared to the other Buddy’s clones I made today.

I will do better the next time and use 19.54 ounces of dough for the larger pan.

I didn’t even recall that Buddy told us at Reply 470 that they use twice the amount of dough for a larger pans.

Norma,

Out of curiosity, I decided to calculate the sizes of the slices in the 4-square 8" x 10" pan and the 8-square 10" x 14" pan. For this purpose, I used the bottom dimensions of the pans since those dimensions are fixed. As you know, the top dimensions of the slices will vary depending on the thickness of the crust in the pans, which can vary from one pizza to another and even across a single crust.

The dimensions of a 4-square slice are 2.125" x 1.625" (3.45 square inches), and the dimensions of an 8-square slice are 2.125" x 1.53125" (3.25 square inches). On an area basis, a 4-square slice is 5.77% larger than an 8-square slice. The above dimensions assume that the slices for the two pan sizes are all of the same size, which is rarely likely to be the case since it is humans who are slicing the pizzas without regard for great accuracy. Even though there is a slight difference in the sizes of the 4-square and 8-square slices, their weights might be similar since Buddy's uses disproportionately more cheese and dough (and maybe even more sauce and pepperoni in the case of a cheese and pepperoni pizza) for the 8-square pizzas. Also, the shrinkage of the slices during baking may be different for the 8-square pizzas than the 4-square pizzas. We would need data on the weights of slices form both size pans to get a better feel for the difference in weights of the two sizes of slices. I think you can now see why Buddys' Nutrition information is vague and unreliable for our purposes.