Actually he was a H3, but he's been inactive for a few years and is getting back into it again. He hasn't had his rating reissued yet, so he shows up as H0 in the database, but he started flying back in 1988. He's on the Ed Levin site committee in the SF Bay area and involved with the local club. He'd be flying more if he wasn't buried with trying to get us through this insurance crisis.

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Its really really really hard to fathom people who think all these landowners are just going to be cool with completely uninsured pilots landing on their property.

WHAT FRICKEN UNIVERSE do you live in, where you think a land owner, solely through the kindness of his heart, is going to open himself and his family, up to massive liability so a bunch of people he doesn't know can use his land?

Are you people completely unaware of the litigious nature of this country????

Oh, and those limited liability laws dont change a damn thing. Thats already been addressed. Those laws do NOT stop lawsuits from being filed/attempted.

The law may limit liability, but thats ONLY after the landowner has to spend $50,000+ in court defending a frivolous lawsuit.

If you really think that anything other than a tiny fraction of *insane* land owners are going to continue keeping their LZ's open for us, you seriously need to put the koolaid down. You would have to be a special kind of reckless idiot to allow non-insured HG pilots to land on your property. 100% massive risk and ZERO reward.

Oh look honey!!! Isnt that hang glider soooo pretty!!! I love seeing them land on our property! Its totally worth risking everything we have for the privilege of looking at their pretty wings!

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sg wrote:"Do we really need insurance?" should be a rhetorical question.

Jack you are of course right and the sensitivity seems to be running rampart today.

Many people in general take things for granted until they are gone, I'm guilty of that myself.

The past hard feelings about our organization ...many justified..is part of the issue.

But today is today and we need to support organizations that help GA and in this case Hang Gliding specifically if we want to continue to fly.

I pay $1500 dollars for my planes insurance every year. If you belong to a workout gym you pay $300-500 every year and for that you have to lift your own weights

Hang Gliding pilots in general are among the cheapest sporting crowd you will ever find. If you don't believe it go to a restaurant/bar with a few after a flight and see them run when the check comes

What ever we fly, we are involved in a dangerous activity. Hang gliding is on the least expensive end of the GA cost continuum. That doesn't mean that its free or that prices will remain stable. Look at all your living expenses and tell me that you are being overcharged to participate in the greatest activity the common man has ever done...fly thousands of feet thru clouds, over breathtaking geography and beautiful views. You are pressed to make a reasonable argument that we pay too much for the value.

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Thanks, Dennis and Jack; we've certainly butted heads a lot over the years, and I know we continue to have our differences of opinion, but you guys are good sports about it and in the end we're all trying to do the right thing. I really appreciate your support. If guys like you are 100% behind us, I'm pretty sure we're doing the best for our sport...because if we weren't, you'd be all over us like a cheap suit!

Jack,
1. It is untenable that there is not two or more plans ro resolve U.S. hang gliding.
Indeed, there are at least two; so "Only" is false.

2. It is also untenable that hang gliding dies unless MGF gets his way.
Indeed, hang gliding in the U.S. will have a firm and robust presence with positive growth fully aside from the Forbes Fiasco. Hang gliding will live beyond whatever happens with the Forbes Fiasco.

Dave,
"lifting" one's own weight that you mention for the gym is one of the keys to the positive presence of hang gliding; such key subsists beyond the Forbes Fiasco.

The very habit of censoring and silencing that is being lived by supposed leaders forms a core seed that grows a spirit collapse of the fiasco org that married PDMC-PG, snuffs hang gliding leaders that support transparency and focus on fairness. Hang gliding has been sold out in the Forbes' org. The U$hPa morphs to serve several interests without the focus on hang gliding that hang gliding deserves. May each person obtain whatever they wish during these changing times. May each pilot become fully aware of the rich full history of hang gliding and make informed decisions that builds the world they wish to see built. Enjoy the Forbes Fiasco if that is one's wish; but hopefully do such with the awareness that there are options to such. Or not; that is, go such route even blind, but own the choice to be blind in the process.
Or swarm to focus just on U.S. hang gliding without all the funny Forbes marriages. Such focus will have positive interface with all other entities, but will be caring pointedly for hang gliding's needs.

Last edited by joefaust on Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PDMC-PG will save itself with or without Forbes Fiasco U$hPA deal.
Hang gliding has a choice to be itself with focus; that too will occur with or without the Forbes Fiasco. There is an option for hang gliding pilots to swarm to a focused future unmarried and out of bed related to PDMC-PG; such option is being chosen by some HG pilots; such option is not being chosen by some HG pilots. We all will have the future that results from our ongoing decisions and investments. Interesting time is unfolding! My hope for all: choice clarity (CC). I have been hopeful for what could be best for hang gliding; my points for consideration are in prior posts here and elsewhere.