Lubber wrote:Is that seriously the first time you have seen a defensive back take the wrong angle on a pass? Who is to say he picks off the ball even if he is in the correct position? You are assuming a lot there.

No, I don't recall ever having seen a Safety overrun a pop fly then fall down while backing up to catch the pop fly he overran, especially in a situation where your main task is to NOT let any receivers behind you. At the very least that ball should be knocked away.

You will not find anyone outside of Baltimore and - apparently - yourself that doesn't feel that completion was due to a DB error.

Maybe you need to re-watch it again. The dude simply took a bad angle. He did not over run anything. Bad angles from safeties happen at least once a week in the NFL. Obviously, this gaffe was magnified due to specifics of when it happened. I agree, his main job was to not let the WR get behind him. To say it was one of the worst in history is a little exaggerated.

Lubber wrote:Is that seriously the first time you have seen a defensive back take the wrong angle on a pass? Who is to say he picks off the ball even if he is in the correct position? You are assuming a lot there.

No, I don't recall ever having seen a Safety overrun a pop fly then fall down while backing up to catch the pop fly he overran, especially in a situation where your main task is to NOT let any receivers behind you. At the very least that ball should be knocked away.

You will not find anyone outside of Baltimore and - apparently - yourself that doesn't feel that completion was due to a DB error.

Maybe you need to re-watch it again. The dude simply took a bad angle. He did not over run anything. Bad angles from safeties happen at least once a week in the NFL. Obviously, this gaffe was magnified due to specifics of when it happened. I agree, his main job was to not let the WR get behind him. To say it was one of the worst in history is a little exaggerated.

I watched it again, and it is one of the worst in history. Overran it, took the wrong angle, fell down when the ball was in the air - epic fail.

This kind of play may happen several times a year, but not when the other team has like 20 seconds left and is a play or two away from throwing Hail Marys. THAT almost never happens.

You also have to remember the situation. it was 3rd and 3, so the safety is probably thinking that Baltimore wants to get an easy first down and will not be chucking it deep just yet. If you want the #2 WR on Jacoby's side, he releases wide open up the hash. Me thinks Mr. Safety had his eyes on him looking to blow him up when all of a sudden Flacco throws the bomb and now he got caught peeking. Plus if this was true Cover 2 coverage, the corner back is partly to blame becuase he needs to be on the WR's heels if #2 goes vertical. The corner was loafing on this play.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Lubber wrote:You also have to remember the situation. it was 3rd and 3, so the safety is probably thinking that Baltimore wants to get an easy first down and will not be chucking it deep just yet. If you want the #2 WR on Jacoby's side, he releases wide open up the hash. Me thinks Mr. Safety had his eyes on him looking to blow him up when all of a sudden Flacco throws the bomb and now he got caught peeking. Plus if this was true Cover 2 coverage, the corner back is partly to blame becuase he needs to be on the WR's heels if #2 goes vertical. The corner was loafing on this play.

YOU have to remember that there was less than 40 seconds left in the game and Baltimore was on its own 30 and needed a TD to tie.

Lubber wrote:You also have to remember the situation. it was 3rd and 3, so the safety is probably thinking that Baltimore wants to get an easy first down and will not be chucking it deep just yet. If you want the #2 WR on Jacoby's side, he releases wide open up the hash. Me thinks Mr. Safety had his eyes on him looking to blow him up when all of a sudden Flacco throws the bomb and now he got caught peeking. Plus if this was true Cover 2 coverage, the corner back is partly to blame becuase he needs to be on the WR's heels if #2 goes vertical. The corner was loafing on this play.

Not sure which one is worse - the execution of the play or your analysis of it. No way in hell is any DB at any level coached to "peek" at that stage of the game. You can blame this on Fox or Del Rio or the fact that Raheem Moore was concussed or is mentaly challenged or didn't know the coverage (it definitely was not Cover 2) or that the CB didn't jam Jones and the LOS and trail as he should have (you are right on that at least) but the fact is that TD goes down as one of the most boneheaded of all blown coverages in a playoff game. Ever. All time.

The only other one I can remember that comes even close in a playoff game is Cowboys Vikes when Drew Pearson pushed off on some Minny DB back in the 70s and scored with less than a minute left. Montana to Clark was a bit more execution than a pitch and catch which is all it took in Denevr - like 7 on 7 drills.

Not taking anything away from Flacco and Jones - they executed, but let's not try to argue (even though it fits your agenda) that was anything else but a complete and utter fuckup on the part of the Broncos D, including their coaching staff.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

mattvan1 wrote:Not sure which one is worse - the execution of the play or your analysis of it. No way in hell is any DB at any level coached to "peek" at that stage of the game. You can blame this on Fox or Del Rio or the fact that Raheem Moore was concussed or is mentaly challenged or didn't know the coverage (it definitely was not Cover 2) or that the CB didn't jam Jones and the LOS and trail as he should have (you are right on that at least) but the fact is that TD goes down as one of the most boneheaded of all blown coverages in a playoff game. Ever. All time.

Never said or insinuated that he was "coached" to peek. No way in hell that happened. However, I am sure you are aware of the ego/cockiness/dumbness of some of these NFL players to realize that they do not always do the things they are coached to do. No blame goes to Fox or DelRio. I am sure they coached them up correctly. But the DB simply was not in the correct position to make the play. If that was not cover 2, let me know what coverage it was. Cover 3? Nope. Cover 4? Nope. 0? Nope, 00? Nope. Cover 2 does not always include a jam at the line. Often you play a soft cover two to jump a quick pass (3rd and 3).

mattvan1 wrote:Not sure which one is worse - the execution of the play or your analysis of it. No way in hell is any DB at any level coached to "peek" at that stage of the game. You can blame this on Fox or Del Rio or the fact that Raheem Moore was concussed or is mentaly challenged or didn't know the coverage (it definitely was not Cover 2) or that the CB didn't jam Jones and the LOS and trail as he should have (you are right on that at least) but the fact is that TD goes down as one of the most boneheaded of all blown coverages in a playoff game. Ever. All time.

Never said or insinuated that he was "coached" to peek. No way in hell that happened. However, I am sure you are aware of the ego/cockiness/dumbness of some of these NFL players to realize that they do not always do the things they are coached to do. No blame goes to Fox or DelRio. I am sure they coached them up correctly. But the DB simply was not in the correct position to make the play. If that was not cover 2, let me know what coverage it was. Cover 3? Nope. Cover 4? Nope. 0? Nope, 00? Nope. Cover 2 does not always include a jam at the line. Often you play a soft cover two to jump a quick pass (3rd and 3).

Cover 4.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

If this was Cover 4, then the safety has no blame at all and it is the corner's fault for failing to cover his quarter of the field deep, especially with the WR on his side going vertical.

No. As you know, Cover 0, 1 , 2, 3 etc simply mean how many defenders have deep responsibility. In essence, how the field is divided - Cover 2 splits the deep field into half, Cover 3 into thirds, etc. How that is executed is another matter. What you write would be true if the Broncos were in their base defense with 2 safeties and 2 corners. Then each corner would have deep responsibilities. But they weren't in their base D. They had 7 DBs, 4 of them safeties. They rushed 3 and dropped 8, and 4 of those had deep coverage. You can see it in the reply from the end zone angle.

Anyway, the point is Joe Flacco is elite, the Ravens will win tomorrow, you will collect $100 from Hiko, and then Peeks will mock him until the start of training camp. And that's all that really matters..

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

If this was Cover 4, then the safety has no blame at all and it is the corner's fault for failing to cover his quarter of the field deep, especially with the WR on his side going vertical.

No. As you know, Cover 0, 1 , 2, 3 etc simply mean how many defenders have deep responsibility. In essence, how the field is divided - Cover 2 splits the deep field into half, Cover 3 into thirds, etc. How that is executed is another matter. What you write would be true if the Broncos were in their base defense with 2 safeties and 2 corners. Then each corner would have deep responsibilities. But they weren't in their base D. They had 7 DBs, 4 of them safeties. They rushed 3 and dropped 8, and 4 of those had deep coverage. You can see it in the reply from the end zone angle.

Anyway, the point is Joe Flacco is elite, the Ravens will win tomorrow, you will collect $100 from Hiko, and then Peeks will mock him until the start of training camp. And that's all that really matters..

Just pray to God that's what happens and not Kaepernick having food poison or being arrested for soliciting a prostitute, Smith playing for 49ers and a 49-46 shootout between Smith and Flacco.

If this was Cover 4, then the safety has no blame at all and it is the corner's fault for failing to cover his quarter of the field deep, especially with the WR on his side going vertical.

No. As you know, Cover 0, 1 , 2, 3 etc simply mean how many defenders have deep responsibility. In essence, how the field is divided - Cover 2 splits the deep field into half, Cover 3 into thirds, etc. How that is executed is another matter. What you write would be true if the Broncos were in their base defense with 2 safeties and 2 corners. Then each corner would have deep responsibilities. But they weren't in their base D. They had 7 DBs, 4 of them safeties. They rushed 3 and dropped 8, and 4 of those had deep coverage. You can see it in the reply from the end zone angle.

Anyway, the point is Joe Flacco is elite, the Ravens will win tomorrow, you will collect $100 from Hiko, and then Peeks will mock him until the start of training camp. And that's all that really matters..

The more I watch the replay, especially the freeze fram at the snap, the more confused the coverage I. You are correct, there are 4 safeties, yet, Moore is lined up at about 14 yards (12 is normal) while the other deep safety on the other side is not even in the picture (at least 17 - 20 yards deep). The corner (Tony Carter), does not jam Jones, nor does he trail him very well. Moore goes for the INT instead of breaking up the pass, so it was a combination of poor positioning, poor technique, and poor angles that led to the easy TD.

I would not go so far to call Joe Elite. He is a very good QB who minimizes turning the ball over. He has a great running game to help open up the passing lanes for him.

Hikohadon wrote:I don't care who does what or what anyone writes - I just don't want to shell out 100 clams. Oh, and I really could do without the Ray-Ray and Art lovefest if the Raisins win.

Go Niners.

I don't want Lubber walking around with your hundy either, if that's any consolation.

But you did give me the Weekend Wrap in a gift box for this week. You should avoid it like you would any other week.

I am in awe that you felt an Alex Smith vs Weeden comparison was article-worthy.

I admire your dedication to obsession.

For the last time, I'd think you apply the concept that you upgrade the position even if it's not for a world-beater with Weeden over McCoy the same you do Smith over Weeden. Since everyone that doesn't snack on lead paint chips can see that Weeden despite all his faults was clearly superior to Colt. Hell, one could even write a nice long article all about all the areas where Weeden was obviously an upgrade to Colt.

But who gives a fuck? Neither one is part of any Answer. The only ones hanging onto the dream of Colt are nuts, just like the only ones hanging onto the dream of Weeden.

Again, I admire your energy. I don't know where you find it (maybe you don't have a baby keeping you up all night). I know I don't have enough left to argue about which moldy apple is less moldy than the others.

EDIT - I know I feel about Colt the way you feel about Weeden, and I know I dedicated many a word to my anti-Colt campaign in many an article, so I do understand where personal dislike fuels an already held belief.

Hikohadon wrote:I don't care who does what or what anyone writes - I just don't want to shell out 100 clams. Oh, and I really could do without the Ray-Ray and Art lovefest if the Raisins win.

Go Niners.

I don't want Lubber walking around with your hundy either, if that's any consolation.

But you did give me the Weekend Wrap in a gift box for this week. You should avoid it like you would any other week.

I am in awe that you felt an Alex Smith vs Weeden comparison was article-worthy.

I admire your dedication to obsession.

For the last time, I'd think you apply the concept that you upgrade the position even if it's not for a world-beater with Weeden over McCoy the same you do Smith over Weeden. Since everyone that doesn't snack on lead paint chips can see that Weeden despite all his faults was clearly superior to Colt. Hell, one could even write a nice long article all about all the areas where Weeden was obviously an upgrade to Colt.

But who gives a fuck? Neither one is part of any Answer. The only ones hanging onto the dream of Colt are nuts, just like the only ones hanging onto the dream of Weeden.

Again, I admire your energy. I don't know where you find it (maybe you don't have a baby keeping you up all night). I know I don't have enough left to argue about which moldy apple is less moldy than the others.

EDIT - I know I feel about Colt the way you feel about Weeden, and I know I dedicated many a word to my anti-Colt campaign in many an article, so I do understand where personal dislike fuels an already held belief.

I'm in many ways alongside you in the boat. But every Sunday I need about 2,000 words and this was just something that provided that.

Hikohadon wrote:I have no idea why they didn't run on 2nd and prob 3rd and goal. They were owning the line and they needed to kill clock. And that non call on the 4th down mugging was brutal.

Agree on the playcalling and the execution.

But I thought Crabtree fucked up the 4th down play. Inside technique by DB with max blitz coming and Crabtree ran a bad route. Make or don't make that call and half the people have a legit bitch but Crabtree runs a better route, gets outside (which should have been a lot easier) and that's probably a catch.

Not sure why you're running a fade there as it is with all that talent and the offense humming along, but whatever.

^ Davis didn't seem to be an option down there at all and why Moss wasn't used in a jump ball situatione either is head scratching

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

That makes sense. Know a guy at work that had em' 20-1 before the playoffs. Which is a good win and all - except that he broke a golden rule - never take a big dog on the future lines right before the playoffs. If he'd a ran that himself on that same hundred dollar bet he's got a little less than even money on the Colts game. But then he's lookin at +500 for two games in a row, then the bowl. You'd be far north of two grand letting it ride. Not to mention if Flacco breaks his arm against the Pats, and they still win, you gotta way out.

Same thing for the NCAA tourney. People bet longshots with the tournament futures, when they should be betting the games.

So I guess Florio tossed out the possibility of the Browns going after Flacco somehow.

Uh..First off, how quick do you make that move and never look back? I think giving up 2 first round picks for a franchise quarterback is well, a steal.

It won't happen, but damn, that would be a good move.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Triple-S wrote:So I guess Florio tossed out the possibility of the Browns going after Flacco somehow.

Uh..First off, how quick do you make that move and never look back? I think giving up 2 first round picks for a franchise quarterback is well, a steal.

It won't happen, but damn, that would be a good move.

The percentage chance that the Raisins let Flacco go is roughly about the same as Blutarsky's GPA.

I heard Haslam and Banner are thinking big - they want to make a huge splash, and will aggressively pursue the guy they want. They won't settle for second, err third, I mean fourth, ah maybe 5th choice. No way. If they want Flacco they'll get him.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

leadpipe wrote:That makes sense. Know a guy at work that had em' 20-1 before the playoffs. Which is a good win and all - except that he broke a golden rule - never take a big dog on the future lines right before the playoffs. If he'd a ran that himself on that same hundred dollar bet he's got a little less than even money on the Colts game. But then he's lookin at +500 for two games in a row, then the bowl. You'd be far north of two grand letting it ride. Not to mention if Flacco breaks his arm against the Pats, and they still win, you gotta way out.

Same thing for the NCAA tourney. People bet longshots with the tournament futures, when they should be betting the games.

You're saying that instead of putting down $100 on the Ravens to win it all at 20-1, you should instead put that $100 down on the Ravens to beat the Colts, then put your $200 (assuming an even money) down on them to beat the Broncos, then your $400 to beat the Pats, and then your $800 to win the Bowl? That nets you $1500 profit at most, likely less, while betting them at 20-1 would have netted you $2000. I fail to understand the logic, please clarify.

And as I typed that last sentence it dawned on me that you mean to take the money lines in the Broncos and Pats games, and that I'm an idiot.

Triple-S wrote:So I guess Florio tossed out the possibility of the Browns going after Flacco somehow.

Uh..First off, how quick do you make that move and never look back? I think giving up 2 first round picks for a franchise quarterback is well, a steal.

It won't happen, but damn, that would be a good move.

The percentage chance that the Raisins let Flacco go is roughly about the same as Blutarsky's GPA.

I heard Haslam and Banner are thinking big - they want to make a huge splash, and will aggressively pursue the guy they want. They won't settle for second, err third, I mean fourth, ah maybe 5th choice. No way. If they want Flacco they'll get him.

Translation: Flacco steals a dinner from them and re-signs with Baltymore, Alex Smith goes to the Eagles, Vick signs to be a backup in SF, and the Browns trade a 1st and 3rd for Ryan Mallet.