Biggest Disappointment : Urban core growth in Tucson is NOT fast enough. Extremely disappointed with the cancelled projects and some ugly looking projects around downtown. 1 million people in the Old Pueblo and you still have people that want to keep Metro Tucson into a small town, LOL.

Best rendering : HUB. Sentinel Plaza. MLK. ALoft. And looks like the new Pima Courthouse is turning out to be nice. The county's Pennington Garage's Art Deco looks nice too.

Building that will age best : Sentinel Plaza

Worst rendering : Cadence

Let me amend RRancher's comment with "What do you want Tucson to accomplish by 2023...10 years from now"

- Cover at least 50 percent of Central Tucson with at least mid-rise buildings (5+ floors).
- Extend the streetcar (and yes, convert the rest of the tracks to light rail - dedicated lanes/tracks)
- Brand name retail/restaurants downtown
- This one is real ambitious --> Would love to have a handful of 20+ floor buildings and 1-2 skyscrapers downtown.

Last edited by farmerk; Mar 27, 2013 at 5:36 PM.
Reason: add "Building that will age best"

Here's quote from this site:
"As many of us are well aware Tucson isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing city, the transportation is not efficient and it is lacking many things a city of over 1 million people should have. We built this site so you can submit your ideas and you also can discuss others. Ultimately we want to urge on the process of making our city look better, attract more tourism, commute more efficiently and make it more of a unique place in this country like we know it can be."

biggest excitement, the new buildings going up. always nice to see these.

disappointment: all the failed and shot down proposals that i REALLY would like reconsdered now that the city/board are on good terms and on the road to improvement (maybe).
1.century tower - should be built just because
2.twin unisource - not even a twin if they didnt want. just a highrise
3.bourn-thrifty - with a trader joes ground floor
4.arena/hotel block - with the greenline incorporated into the plan
5.cadence height - can't fix that now can we... i hope it burns or something before people get into it
6.diamond rock plaza - hsl needs to push the idea
7.convention hotel - idk if it was part of #4 above
8.sheraton hotel - could be the same as #7/#4 idek. several renders
9.ronstadt "remodel" (whatever they did didnt cost millions of dollars...ot looks the same but with a wall now)
10. 44 broadway i liked the propsed condos and floor additions/expansion to lateral lot. i dont see people living there yet...

I see your list...but what does it have to do with the picture??? Is your list representing the different numbers and letters? It doesn't look like Tucson at all?

I see your list...but what does it have to do with the picture??? Is your list representing the different numbers and letters? It doesn't look like Tucson at all?

His numbers don't match up with the image, but that was the proposed development around the convention center and never-built arena. You can see TCC, the music hall, and the federal courthouse in the image.

I see your list...but what does it have to do with the picture??? Is your list representing the different numbers and letters? It doesn't look like Tucson at all?

lol sorry no, the numbers are just disappointments i have. the picture was a proposition by allan norville with that piece of land by the frontage road where greenline is now proposed. ithink his rendering would add some nice density to that land but should include greenline. #4 being the thought behind the picture :/

and see! you couldn't tell it was tucson so +1 )

btw, i went to radisson hotel the other night during some urban hiking and all the signs onthe building said "closed for remodeling" and the lobby lights were on and a car parked in front. now from what ive read here i thought hsl closed it down until the city/board negotiated a hotel deal and offered to fix some 50 rooms or something in the hotel arizona.

oh and why are all the water features drained? the fountains at the music hall and congress park are dry. was it for winter or maybe some water lines closed from the rail construction?

Biggest Disappointment : Urban core growth in Tucson is NOT fast enough. Extremely disappointed with the cancelled projects and some ugly looking projects around downtown. 1 million people in the Old Pueblo and you still have people that want to keep Metro Tucson into a small town, LOL.

Best rendering : HUB. Sentinel Plaza. MLK. ALoft. And looks like the new Pima Courthouse is turning out to be nice. The county's Pennington Garage's Art Deco looks nice too.

Building that will age best : Sentinel Plaza

Worst rendering : Cadence

Let me amend RRancher's comment with "What do you want Tucson to accomplish by 2023...10 years from now"

- Cover at least 50 percent of Central Tucson with at least mid-rise buildings (5+ floors).
- Extend the streetcar (and yes, convert the rest of the tracks to light rail - dedicated lanes/tracks)
- Brand name retail/restaurants downtown
- This one is real ambitious --> Would love to have a handful of 20+ floor buildings and 1-2 skyscrapers downtown.

I would like to see in the next 10 years (not in order):

1) Arena/Hotel built: We need an arena badly. Our current facility is outdated...decent concerts can't come because the ceiling is too low. And the obvious, the arena amenities are just embarrassing. If we build the arena then Phase 1 Hotel and Phase 2 Hotel, pending on success of arena.

2) Build on the ol' Unisouce Tower "twin" pad. The elevator shaft and base is already built and ready...please please build on it for once. Get some offices off of River and/or Williams Centre to move downtown.

8) Buildings on parking lots throughout downtown, for example, the big one adjacent to El Charro...the cancelled "El Mirador" lots...the lots on Broadway

9) In conjunction with the arena, expand the AVA amphitheater and/or build another larger amphitheater. In Albuquerque, they have the Hard Rock/Journal Pavilion which is larger than AVA, but smaller than Desert Sky in Phx. They book way better acts than AVA. Now, on the northside of Albq they built a new amphitheater on the Sandia Rez. And, the suburb of Rio Rancho has a modest, yet capable, modern arena.

During March, 4th Avenue and University Boulevard became the first stretches to take on the look of how the 3.9-mile route of the Sun Link Tucson Modern Streetcar will appear.

The track work is finished on those two streets, and the power lines above the tracks – the Overhead Contact Systems – were strung during March.

The week of March 25 is seeing construction of the first five streetcar stops on 4th Avenue and University. These are at 9th Street, 7th Street, 5th Street, 3rd Avenue, and Tyndall Avenue. Shade canopies will be installed in that order, from west to east, said Joe Chase, the streetcar project construction manager for the Tucson Transportation Department.

Park Avenue reopened March 15 after being closed for several months from University Boulevard to 2nd Street. This two-block stretch involved installing two, 90-degree curves.

Congress Street was shut down at Toole Avenue for the second time on Feb. 21 to allow crews to install a track switch.

The very first stretch of the modern streetcar track was built with the 4th Avenue Underpass from 2007-09 before Sun Link was officially approved or fully funded. This included a loop around the Rialto Block (Congress, 5th Avenue, Broadway, Toole Avenue).

The loop was built to allow the Old Pueblo Trolley to extend its run to Downtown’s east end. But with just a loop, there was no way to continue straight on Congress. Chase said a track switch was not available at that time, nor was the Modern Streetcar an official project yet. If anything, the track was extended to the Rialto Block at that time in order to complete the street and track work through the underpass as the same time.

Since Congress was closed at Toole, the curved tracks turning from Congress onto 5th Avenue were removed and replaced with a switch to enable the streetcar to go straight or turn left.

The intersection work should be done by April 11-12 with Congress at that time once again reopened for traffic from Toole to Church.

The final Congress stretch from Church to Granada Avenue should be finished toward the end of April or early May. This will allow the full run of Congress Street to be open for vehicle traffic for the first time since streetcar construction started April 9, 2012.

Streetcar tracks were installed on March 10 on Broadway from Scott Avenue to Stone Avenue and from 6th Avenue to 5th Avenue. The section from 6th Avenue to Thunder Canyon Brewery started getting set in concrete in March 22. That should be done by the end of the month.

Broadway has been reduced to one lane to allow for this track work. Water line work had already reduced lanes on Broadway since July.

“After Friday or the 1st of April, everything east of Church will have two lanes,” Chase said.

There is now continuous eastbound track from Church Avenue to 2nd Street and Warren Avenue. Westbound, all the track is in place from Warren to Congress and 5th Avenue.

Stone Avenue reopened through Broadway on March 22.

“We are hoping to be paved and out of Downtown in June,” Chase said.

All track work should finish around the end of June or early July. The last segment will be Cushing Street from Avenida del Convento, across the Luis G. Gutierrez Bridge and through the freeway underpass to link with the completed track on Granada Avenue.

“There’s not a lot more places for track to go,”

The only other section without track is the Warren Avenue Underpass beneath Speedway. A deep trench had to be dug so the streetcar could fit through the underpass. The streetcar will travel through the underpass about 6 to 8 feet lower than pedestrians.

By the numbers, 21,440 feet (4.06 miles) of straight rail and 5,420 feet (1.02 miles) of curved rail have been installed so far. Between now and June-July, 5,450 feet (1.03 miles) of straight rail and 4,762 feet (.9 miles) of curved rail still remain to be installed.

The track work has caused traffic disruption, but the streetcar route also includes 530 poles that will support the Overhead Contact System power lines. So far 243 of the OCS poles have been installed, 400 foundations have been drilled and 1 mile of cable has been strung on 4th Avenue and University Boulevard.

In March 2012, the first streetcar had been expected delivered to Tucson around October 2012 with public streetcar service projected to start in November 2013.

By summer, streetcar delivery from Oregon Iron Works in Portland was pushed back to February and recently to April 2013, but those delays did not impact the expected November service.

Now, however, the first of eight streetcars is not expected to arrive in Tucson until July with the last streetcar expected in summer 2014.

The streetcar’s expected debut in Tucson’s public transit system now has been pushed back from November 2013 to summer 2014.

At a March 2012 open house, transportation officials said the real driver in determining when streetcar service starts was tied to the construction schedule for the actual streetcars by Oregon Iron Works.

Tucson has to wait for Oregon Iron Works to finish building streetcars for Portland, which is expanding its streetcar line across the Willamette River.

Tucson is partnering with Portland in designing the Modern Streetcar. Tucson will get the same streetcar (except for the beefed up A/C system) used for the Portland streetcar, which has run for a decade from the Pearl District, through downtown to Portland State University. (The Portland Streetcar should not be confused with the Portland MAX light rail system, which uses larger trains, and has operated since the 1970s).
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- I was under the impression that the line had to be operational by the end of the year or they risked losing their funding from the Federal DOT (their TIGER grant). Anyone else know about this?

I wonder where Kaneui has gone off to. He was always posting things and updating his Tucson metro development projects side-page. He hasn't updated that for over a month or the Flagstaff one for almost 2 months. He's gone away before but he usually gives a heads up or shout out before hand. He always finds good info and has some good inside scoops. Just wondering where you are good buddy.

The new renderings of Hub have slightly change my mind on what I think about it. The brown wall and the edge look AMAZING. I could due without the white wall with the terraces. Not that I have anything against the terraces, its the windows again.

The best rendering IMO is Level and the Courthouse.
The worst rendering is Cadence. BUT I do not mind it it's just not as good as the rest.
The best aging building IMO is going to be Level or the district on 5th. If the main gate hotel gets built, that rendering we've all seen is probably going to look good.
The worst aging. Park Avenue? I need to see more renderings to make a decision.
My biggest excitement was the Streetcar
My biggest disappointment was the Cadence's height being shortened for NO GOOD REASON!!!!
IN 10 years I want to look at downtown and know that Tucson has changed since 1980. I don't want to become like Albany, Buffalo or Minneapolis. Have you seen those skylines? They look like you went back in time to the 60s and 70s!! I want to be more like Austin, Texas. They're also a strongly democratic city. They've got new skyscrapers in mass amounts. Most of the tallest buildings there have been build within the last five years. I want Tucson to keep it's modern edge over other cities. Downtown Tucson is starting to look more modern. At least our downtown looks more modern than Phoenix. What's their newest tower, that GOD AWFUL Sheraton? It's hard to tell that you are in 2013 looking at downtown Phoenix.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I added a new proposed list on the wiki page. If anybody can add pictures that would be much appreciated. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ings_in_Tucson
EDIT2: I don't want Tucson to be exactly like Austin. I guess North Korea is after them http://michellemalkin.com/2013/03/29...-austin-texas/

I wonder where Kaneui has gone off to. He was always posting things and updating his Tucson metro development projects side-page. He hasn't updated that for over a month or the Flagstaff one for almost 2 months. He's gone away before but he usually gives a heads up or shout out before hand. He always finds good info and has some good inside scoops. Just wondering where you are good buddy.

Apologies for the outdated development lists, but I've got new commitments in a new location, so I'm going to pass the baton to the rest of you to keep track of the development progress in Tucson and Flagstaff. I will no longer be updating my project lists for each city, but may check back in from time to time. Best wishes in promoting more urban and sustainable development in Arizona!

Never been to Austin but looking at the photos in skyscraperpage, Austin did a very good job with their new high rises. I think Tucson is headed to look more like a Paris (France). And it may have to do with some of our current and former city councilwomen. Some of them have been to Europe.

If Tucson plans to build it's own Eiffel Tower, I hope they build it at this location . Looks like it's at the edge of Tucson with probably a good view of the desert at one side. Convert those dry rivers to a nyc central park.

Browsing at TIBO, someone proposed building an aerial tramway to Mt. Lemon...I like that.

FORS Architecture posted a picture of the inside of Proper at 300 E. Congress the other day so I walked down the Rialto block to see how everything was progressing.

You can see through one of the front doors of Proper, which reveals an image pretty similar to the FORS picture. To me, it looks like they're probably half way through construction - the kitchen is built (appliances aren't installed yet, though) and a service bar has been built in front of the door.

Although you couldn't see into Diablo Burger, you could see into Good Oak Bar and it appears to be about as far along as Proper - a bar is being built along the east side of the space. What's interesting is that Good Oak was supposed to open after Diablo Burger but it seems like they're probably on similar timelines now.

The new renderings of Hub have slightly change my mind on what I think about it. The brown wall and the edge look AMAZING. I could due without the white wall with the terraces. Not that I have anything against the terraces, its the windows again.

The best rendering IMO is Level and the Courthouse.
The worst rendering is Cadence. BUT I do not mind it it's just not as good as the rest.
The best aging building IMO is going to be Level or the district on 5th. If the main gate hotel gets built, that rendering we've all seen is probably going to look good.
The worst aging. Park Avenue? I need to see more renderings to make a decision.
My biggest excitement was the Streetcar
My biggest disappointment was the Cadence's height being shortened for NO GOOD REASON!!!!
IN 10 years I want to look at downtown and know that Tucson has changed since 1980. I don't want to become like Albany, Buffalo or Minneapolis. Have you seen those skylines? They look like you went back in time to the 60s and 70s!! I want to be more like Austin, Texas. They're also a strongly democratic city. They've got new skyscrapers in mass amounts. Most of the tallest buildings there have been build within the last five years. I want Tucson to keep it's modern edge over other cities. Downtown Tucson is starting to look more modern. At least our downtown looks more modern than Phoenix. What's their newest tower, that GOD AWFUL Sheraton? It's hard to tell that you are in 2013 looking at downtown Phoenix.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I added a new proposed list on the wiki page. If anybody can add pictures that would be much appreciated. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ings_in_Tucson
EDIT2: I don't want Tucson to be exactly like Austin. I guess North Korea is after them http://michellemalkin.com/2013/03/29...-austin-texas/

The Sheraton? It's obvious that you haven't been keeping up with development in downtown Phoenix. Get back to us when you have.

As someone who posts in this forum regularly, people in the Phoenix forum getting their panties in a bunch and responding to these posts is more annoying than the posts themselves could ever be.

Listen "Ted", what's more annoying are the comments in the Tucson forum about how everyone wishes for Tucson to never become another Phoenix. That's fine; however, as I was a Tucson resident from '92-early 2010, I started posting in the Tucson forum originally, lived through the Rio Nuevo debacle, and watched how Tucson really did not progress for all too many years. While I am happy to see Tucson flourishing, I'm not just some random poster here. I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment when people don't "get it right" about either city.

Listen "Ted", what's more annoying are the comments in the Tucson forum about how everyone wishes for Tucson to never become another Phoenix. That's fine; however, as I was a Tucson resident from '92-early 2010, I started posting in the Tucson forum originally, lived through the Rio Nuevo debacle, and watched how Tucson really did not progress for all too many years. While I am happy to see Tucson flourishing, I'm not just some random poster here. I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment when people don't "get it right" about either city.

I love the ol' Phoenix/Tucson debates...

When you compare the 2 cities head-on, its not proportionate. Phx metro is nearly 5 mill and Tucson is 1 mill. Downtown Phx has a bigger footprint, has newer, taller, and more skyscrapers. Chase Field and U.S. Airways are located there...but when you compare apples with apples, oranges with oranges, Downtown Phx compared to...let's say...Downtown Denver/Dallas/Houston/Atlanta...it does not compete. Downtown Phx is a ghost town after 5pm. Weekends is just as bad. If the D-backs are not good, downtown is not good. Suns game, eh. Concerts...little more action. I'll take the less commercial, less formal Congress and 4th Ave in the Old Pueblo any day.

The problem with Downtown Phx is that there's not one concentrated "club/bar" district. Many restaurants are too formal and expensive. Mill Ave in Tempe and Scottsdale are the places to be and rule in that clientele. Too, Phx is soooo freakishly spread out. People wanna go home and be near home. Lastly, Downtown Phx failed with the Arizona Center. "Let's bring in all the commercial restaurants/stores of the suburbs and bring them downtown..." Didn't work. What do Phx leaders do? Arizona Center part 2 (aka CityScape). Rio Nuevo failed miserably. But behind the scenes, the local developers and small business-restaurant/bar entrepreneurs were bringing in these unique establishments that has given Downtown Tucson a distinct character...complimenting the distinct character of 4th Ave. Without big concerts or big sports entertainment, people are going downtown. Downtown Tucson hasn't even peaked. It's just starting and I can proudly say its a cool place to be.

Yeah, the Tucson/Phoenix debate always seems to come up. It wouldn't have to if people were just more educated.

For example, southtucsonboy77's post started well, but then trailed off into more incorrect statements. So now, people like me, a native of Phoenix, feel they have to correct him so incorrect information doesn't propegate.

Southtucsonboy77, you're right that Phoenix doesn't compare to places like downtown Seattle or something, but you're definitely wrong when thinking Downtown Phoenix lacks any kind of unique establishments downtown. There are tons, and it's growing. That's on top of the more corporate "Big box" stuff like CityScape.

I enjoy keeping up with Tucson projects, but sometimes I pass over this thread... any reason you Tucsonians keep everything in this thread? You could break it out into separate threads - for example, the streetcar is deserving of its own thread and it would be cool to check in on it there, rather than being buried in this catch-all thread.