Lots of people say Walt "is" a bad person. I just want to point out something obvious here:

1) He is NOW. We've been watching his decent, from regular old innocent chemistry teacher to this.
2) Adding to all of the Star Wars references, there is still some good in him.
3) I think the point of the show is that this descent could happen to ANYBODY.

I somewhat disagree. They've had pretty strong hints all along that Walt has always had Heisenberg lurking within him, but never had the guts and/or the impetus to let him out. (Remember that he could have been Steve Wozniak, but his own selfishness led him to think he didn't need his partners, and he was the one who got left behind.) He had a fragile little life going, and when that began to fall apart, he began to let his demons out. But they were always there.

And letting/making terrible things happen in order to serve your own interests doesn't make you a "good" family man; it makes you a brutal sociopath.

I somewhat disagree. They've had pretty strong hints all along that Walt has always had Heisenberg lurking within him, but never had the guts and/or the impetus to let him out. (Remember that he could have been Steve Wozniak, but his own selfishness led him to think he didn't need his partners, and he was the one who got left behind.) He had a fragile little life going, and when that began to fall apart, he began to let his demons out. But they were always there.

And letting/making terrible things happen in order to serve your own interests doesn't make you a "good" family man; it makes you a brutal sociopath.

If Jesse told them about it, then they investigated and it turned out to be true, that would make at least one part of his story verifiable. That was Gomie's problem, and it seems that's a good place to start.

And I'm sure that as soon as they start sniffing around Lydia, she'll roll over on Walt in no time if they offer her immunity.

In a way I think that Walt cares about his family so much that he's willing to do just about anything to "protect" them. Now, his idea of protection and my idea of protection are two vastly different things, but in his mind he justifies everything he's done in order to keep the family together.

I agree...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkeegan

Lots of people say Walt "is" a bad person. I just want to point out something obvious here:

1) He is NOW. We've been watching his decent, from regular old innocent chemistry teacher to this.
2) Adding to all of the Star Wars references, there is still some good in him.
3) I think the point of the show is that this descent could happen to ANYBODY.

Some of the very qualities that made early Walt seem so "good" (caring about his family) are the very things that motivate his path towards current Walt.

And lastly, the reason we still see the good and can still (at some level) want to see him succeed/survive/be-happy is because we've watched the entire descent and we know the original Walt. We saw all of the decisions along the way. And with respect to his family, all of his intentions have been good. (Even letting Jesse'a girlfriend choke to death on her own vomit - she was blackmailing Walt and by extension his family).

yes, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

I somewhat disagree. They've had pretty strong hints all along that Walt has always had Heisenberg lurking within him, but never had the guts and/or the impetus to let him out. (Remember that he could have been Steve Wozniak, but his own selfishness led him to think he didn't need his partners, and he was the one who got left behind.) He had a fragile little life going, and when that began to fall apart, he began to let his demons out. But they were always there.

And letting/making terrible things happen in order to serve your own interests doesn't make you a "good" family man; it makes you a brutal sociopath.

Ding, ding, ding, ding...we have a winner! Nobody is all good or all bad. We all have a gatekeeper in our head that keeps us from saying or doing the wrong thing. The only difference is what your definition of "wrong" is and his vigilant that gatekeeper is.

We all have our weaknesses...something that takes over that gatekeeper to keep it from doing its job. It could be drugs, like Jesse. With Walt it's hubris. He has been a downtrodden and beaten little man, bested by others he thought intellectually inferior. He finally has his breakthrough, doing something he is truly the best at doing, and it happens to be illegal and controlled by thugs who are intellectually inferior to Walt. At every opportunity to beat his chest and show his superiority, he's done it to his own detriment. He cannot help it.

But now he's had a taste of power and respect and he likes it. And he cannot go back to meek and mild even if it serves his own best interest. A friend of mine likes to say that sociopaths get things done because they don't have the same worries you and I have about people and feelings. Walt's lies and manipulations can be seen as Heisenberg being the dominant personality, but I think they are also proof that Heisenberg hasn't completely taken over because he still cares about people and feelings enough to lie.

I know that seems like a BS distinction, but if the money was all he cared about, he could have disappeared by Saul's guy a while ago.

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I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you don't give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.

p.s. Is Walter White the last person on Earth (besides my mom) to own a flip-phone?

They've done this on purpose to make the show not be tied to a specific timeframe.* The first season was filmed in 2007, when flip phones were still very common. From the pilot to the most recent episode has been about 18 months, so a flip phone would still be very common in 2009.

*Of course they kind of screwed this up by having Walt and Skyler buy new model cars, but that's kind of the point. This show isn't supposed to be set in any specific time period. It just happens.

I thought it was just being used to reset the scene. Walt pointedly picked up it up out of Saul's car and we were meant to notice the CD. Then when Jesse pulled up to the house we were also meant to notice the CD. I thought it was just a visual reset signal so we'd know we were back in time...

I also felt cheated out of seeing Hank bring Gomie up to speed. That could have been a good scene for both actors.

I initially felt that way too, but I also liked the shock at seeing him there when Jesse walked into the room. So I decided that I liked the way things played out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoshopgrl

I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him.

The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.

So I disagree that Walt manipulated Jesse into becoming a murderer. In fact, Walt sacrificed everything to prevent him from becoming one.

Walt could have just let Jesse kill those men, and suffer the consequences at the hands of Gus while he and Gale made their product in the safety of their lab. Instead, he killed the two men Jesse was after, hoping that Gus would be less willing to go after him than Jesse. He put his own life in danger for Jesse. That's about as opposite from manipulation as you can get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkeegan

Still hoping that Walt uses that big gun to somehow save Jessie from Uncle Jack's crew.

That's an interesting thought. What if Walt is calling Todd's uncle not because he wants Jesse dead, but because he wants to set up a scenario where he can "save" Jesse? Perhaps his attempt at saving Jesse backfires, and ends up turning Todd and Co. against him.

Was it realistic that Jesse could stand in the living room with a lit lighter and all those gasoline fumes without them igniting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkeegan

When Walt was inside with his gun, I said "if he fires that he could explode the whole house!"

We know by the law of The Mythbusters that the fuel/air mixture ratio has to hit a magic range to be explosive. If he had dropped a flame on the carpet the gas would burn through the wicking effect like in a kerosene lantern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkeegan

If Jesse told Hank about Todd and Uncle Jack+crew (and Lydia?) then he has a lot more big enemies right now.

Still hoping that Walt uses that big gun to somehow save Jessie from Uncle Jack's crew.

The key question we should have at this point is what Jesse has in mind that could get "Mr. White" worse than the conversation on the wire. He has to have some physical evidence or set up mind.

I can't think of many at this point. There are no bodies buried with evidence that he knows of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ

So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify

Maybe if they find the pit next the train tracks opposite where Drew Sharp was killed...oh, wait, nobody knows where, or that he was killed. He's just missing.

Maybe set up Walter to get got by Lydia and the Uncle Jack crew and the Czechs.

How about one of the Guatemalans that worked at the laundry and saw Walter?

I think Walt's final phone call was to set up a hit on Lydia, not Jesse like they want us to think...specifically because she would turn on him on a dime.. also because when Jesse said "I'll get you at home" at the end, I think he tipped Walt off that he was talking to Hank ("at home") and the DEA, and their next move is Lydia for some real evidence or a sting. But since there doesn't seem to be any real evidence and he's "retired" I'm not sure how much damming evidence she can provide.

I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else. I hope it's not the former, that's just to easy and not a very "Breaking Bad" way. It has to be something we don't/can't anticipate like the "confession" video. Finally Jesse is playing Walt's game, and Walt will not expect it (I hope).

I think Walt's final phone call was to set up a hit on Lydia, not Jesse like they want us to think...specifically because she would turn on him on a dime.. also because when Jesse said "I'll get you at home" at the end, I think he tipped Walt off that he was talking to Hank ("at home") and the DEA, and their next move is Lydia for some real evidence or a sting. But since there doesn't seem to be any real evidence and he's "retired" I'm not sure how much damming evidence she can provide.

I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else. I hope it's not the former, that's just to easy and not a very "Breaking Bad" way. It has to be something we don't/can't anticipate like the "confession" video. Finally Jesse is playing Walt's game, and Walt will not expect it (I hope).

You made me remember that the other DEA office paid Lydia and Madrigal a visit when they put the GPS trackers on the barrels. They have some experience with Lydia.

The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.

So I disagree that Walt manipulated Jesse into becoming a murderer. In fact, Walt sacrificed everything to prevent him from becoming one.

Walt could have just let Jesse kill those men, and suffer the consequences at the hands of Gus while he and Gale made their product in the safety of their lab. Instead, he killed the two men Jesse was after, hoping that Gus would be less willing to go after him than Jesse. He put his own life in danger for Jesse. That's about as opposite from manipulation as you can get.

Right. I was going to respond similarly, but you already explained it well.

Also, someone said that Walt betrayed Jesse, but actually, the two of them had planned on killing Gus. But then Jesse became friends with Mike and then Gus (two people who were planning to kill Jesse and Walt just a few months ago, and were still planning on killing Walt even as Jesse buddied up to them). That was Jesse betraying Walt, big time. Even after Walt had saved Jesse's life from Gus earlier.

So, there have been several betrayals, on both sides, but I think that Walt comes out slightly the better person in the betrayer game (or perhaps I should say, not quite as bad as Jesse in betrayals), since Walt saved Jesse and was betrayed first by Jesse before he began manipulating and betraying Jesse. And now, at the end, Walt has still tried to protect Jesse (from people who want Jesse dead), while Jesse has been busy betraying Walt to Hank.

At the beginning of the episode, when Jesse had seemingly vanished from the White home, I was half expecting Walt to discover a frayed lamp cord plugged into a Christmas light timer, the same way that Walt and Jesse had set the super lab to explode back in Season 4.

I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else.

I thought that at first but it's too obvious and straight forward. No, he's going after the one thing Walt REALLY cares about. His legacy.

Walt has been shown to have too much ego for his own good. The scene with the notebook of instructions, for instance, where Walt had to go on and on about how it was clearly derivative. He doesn't just want to make the best meth, he wanted people to know how much better he was than they were.

The easiest first step is to out him as Heisenberg. Let it be known that the great, powerful, scary Heisenberg, is a high school teacher. Destroy his image.

The second would be to make a better product.

I don't know that Jesse could do the latter, and even if he could, I doubt Hank would let him, but the former? To destroy the image Walt has built up? That would definitely be taking Walt down where he "really lives". And would lead to the house we saw in the half-season opening, with Heisenberg spray painted on the wall.

Reveal the man behind the curtain and you destroy his power.

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I initially felt that way too, but I also liked the shock at seeing him there when Jesse walked into the room. So I decided that I liked the way things played out.

The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.

So I disagree that Walt manipulated Jesse into becoming a murderer. In fact, Walt sacrificed everything to prevent him from becoming one.

Walt could have just let Jesse kill those men, and suffer the consequences at the hands of Gus while he and Gale made their product in the safety of their lab. Instead, he killed the two men Jesse was after, hoping that Gus would be less willing to go after him than Jesse. He put his own life in danger for Jesse. That's about as opposite from manipulation as you can get.

Also, don't forget that the reason they killed Gale was to protect themselves. If Gale could make Blue Sky as well as Walt, then Gus didn't need Walt or Jesse. So Jesse was killing Gale as much for his own protection as it was because of anything Walt made him do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank

I think Walt's final phone call was to set up a hit on Lydia, not Jesse like they want us to think...specifically because she would turn on him on a dime.. also because when Jesse said "I'll get you at home" at the end, I think he tipped Walt off that he was talking to Hank ("at home") and the DEA, and their next move is Lydia for some real evidence or a sting. But since there doesn't seem to be any real evidence and he's "retired" I'm not sure how much damming evidence she can provide.

I still do wonder what Jesse's "there's a better way" means, if that's just going after his wife/kids, or something else. I hope it's not the former, that's just to easy and not a very "Breaking Bad" way. It has to be something we don't/can't anticipate like the "confession" video. Finally Jesse is playing Walt's game, and Walt will not expect it (I hope).

Disagree. Jesse told Walt he was going after his family. That crossed a line with Walt. Up until then, Walt wanted Jesse to get away cleanly. But if Jesse is going to threaten Walt's family, Walt will not hesitate to take Jesse down.

Also, Todd and Uncle Jack are working directly with Lydia. As far as Walt knows, they're loyal to each other. So if he wants to take out Lydia, I don't think Todd and Uncle Jack would be the ones he would call.

Disagree. Jesse told Walt he was going after his family. That crossed a line with Walt. Up until then, Walt wanted Jesse to get away cleanly. But if Jesse is going to threaten Walt's family, Walt will not hesitate to take Jesse down.

No, Jesse said he was going to get Walt "at home".. whatever that meant. Could be his family, but that's too easy for the writers. It has to mean something else. Also, I think if Jesse was going after Walt's family, than Walt has the hubris to face Jesse himself, and not chicken out by calling in Todd's uncle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ

Also, Todd and Uncle Jack are working directly with Lydia. As far as Walt knows, they're loyal to each other. So if he wants to take out Lydia, I don't think Todd and Uncle Jack would be the ones he would call.

I was surprised they didn't do anything with Jesse hearing Hank talk about how much Walt had been protecting him, treating him as family and a partner. That seemed to be a moment where Hank was giving Jesse numerous reasons to shut up and deny everything Hank believes about Walt.

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The only reason Jesse murdered Gale was because Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt. And the reason Gus wanted to kill both him and Walt was because Walt killed two men that Jesse was planning on killing.

Wasn't Jesse planning on killing the men associated with an innocent kid being killed in the hood? I don't remember exactly how that went down but as I recall, it was tied to an innocent being killed -- not a "Walter-type" murder (a murder to protect himself).

Wasn't Jesse planning on killing the men associated with an innocent kid being killed in the hood? I don't remember exactly how that went down but as I recall, it was tied to an innocent being killed -- not a "Walter-type" murder (a murder to protect himself).

The dealers got the kid to kill for them. Then they killed the kid. It was that one girls little brother.