When the day comes that we can get binaural sources, I will acknowledge it even though I still will hate having [headphones] on my head.

Amen. I hope that day has not already passed. It has taken me many years and much effort to accumulate a small collection of binaural and nearly-binaural recordings. The recent Zenph re-performances provide some hope for the future, but, as much as I would like to, I don't see a general market trend toward binaural. On the other hand, the recent 2L blu-ray audio recordings provide a spectacular surround sound experience that is quite similar to binaural but does not require headphones.

Although they are all relatively uncomfortable, headphones are still the only way to hear true stereo (via binaural recordings). And there are fringe benefits: no fancy processing or room treatments needed. Hook up a Buttkicker and you even get the visceral low end. I connect my headphone amps to the analog stereo outputs of the BDP-83 (and Sony XA5400ES and Cambridge 840C).

-----------------

Kal, have you had the opportunity to compare the analog output from CD of these three players?

Tonight I added a page to my website where I describe the sonic difference between the stock 83SE and my MBBM (Mind Blowing Baby Mod, cost is $60) standard 83.
I call them as I hear them. There will be more listening tests as I mod both machines. I will also have high rez pics of the boards of both machines and also very clear information on how to bypass all the coupling caps in the Oppos for superior sound (can be done in 10 minutes...assuming you can solder....very, very easy.....very, very easy....did I say easy....yes, I did)

That's only like 9 posts per day since he joined. Obviously more on some days and less on others.
A lot of people love the hobby of music and movies, which I think Kal does as well. At the same time, it is also part of his profession.
Not unreasonable to imagine stacking up that many post in almost 6 years time since he joined.
Thank goodness there are lots of folks like Kal here to offer their expert advice and personal opinions that help AVS to be a wealth for all a/v enthusiasts.
Then there are those that may only lurk and read, for learning and entertainment.
Of course just as well, some posters can see the shine of a shilling from miles away. They don't come around as often as the dedicated enthusiasts.

He uses the words boring and dry describing the SE. And that is how some folks will describe accurate true reproduction of the audio on the disc, when played back from a higher end player.
Can a mod change how the audio will sound, of course it can
Will the sound of one mod be the same as a different mod by a different company, probably not.
So mods like OEM players have different sound signatures, you may or may-not like.
And its for that reason why I am getting a new SE with the NE mod. Plus the fact that Nuforce has a inside track to what Oppo is doing with the SE. imo Nuforce's mod is in-keeping with what Oppo is doing with the SE. From what I have read so far, all Nuforce is doing is upgrading some components that Oppo deemed, not enough bang for the buck to achieve Oppos price point.

So by next weekend if all goes well I will be happy or disappointed. And relay that opinion back here.

I am looking to upgrade my ancient home theater have an older receiver that I plan on using in the short term. I was wondering if the SE version will give me an improved sound when using the BDP-83's analog outputs.

I am looking to upgrade my ancient home theater have an older receiver that I plan on using in the short term. I was wondering if the SE version will give me an improved sound when using the BDP-83's analog outputs.

The BD-83SE at least on paper should improve your Audio. But not near enough info from users yet.

There should be some more impressions from folks that are now just getting there BD-83SE this week.

He uses the words boring and dry describing the SE. And that is how some folks will describe accurate true reproduction of the audio on the disc, when played back from a higher end player.
Can a mod change how the audio will sound, of course it can
Will the sound of one mod be the same as a different mod by a different company, probably not.
So mods like OEM players have different sound signatures, you may or may-not like.
And its for that reason why I am getting a new SE with the NE mod. Plus the fact that Nuforce has a inside track to what Oppo is doing with the SE. imo Nuforce's mod is in-keeping with what Oppo is doing with the SE. From what I have read so far, all Nuforce is doing is upgrading some components that Oppo deemed, not enough bang for the buck to achieve Oppos price point.

So by next weekend if all goes well I will be happy or disappointed. And relay that opinion back here.

ss

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...

. I wasn't commenting on what he said so much, but how he said it.
I think anybody that reads it can see the rest coming.

Anyway my point in what I was saying is that audio is a very personal thing. What I like you may not. And really the one thing we can determine about the BD-83 or modded versions, is how accurate it reproduces the audio to what is on the disc.

I was wondering, since you are considered an expert at evaluating audio equipment, do you see any issues with connecting the Oppo analog outputs directly to a 5 channel Carver amp? Other than not having as finite control over the volume levels I haven't observed any issues. Oppo said there might be some truncation when listening at volume levels below 70%, but in testing they said they didn't detect any. Also, since I am using the analog outputs directly to my amp, shouldn't I theoretically notice the most sound improvement with the SE? Thank you for your assistance.

. I wasn't commenting on what he said so much, but how he said it.
I think anybody that reads it can see the rest coming.

Anyway my point in what I was saying is that audio is a very personal thing. What I like you may not. And really the one thing we can determine about the BD-83 or modded versions, is how accurate it reproduces the audio to what is on the disc.

ss

Actually, the problem is that we cannot determine how _accurately_ the 83 (in any form) or any other component or tweak reproduces what is on the disc.

Why? because chances are we weren't sitting next to the microphone in the concert hall during the original live event. If you didn't experience the music first hand, how do you know what it should sound like? How do you know if your system is _accurately_ reproducing it?

And the situation only gets worse when you consider the original recording equipment. Was the microphone(s) set up correctly? Did it, or other equipment in the recording chain, "color" the sound in any way? Did the room acoustics mess with the bass? If so, then who knows what's recorded on that shiny metal disc?

So you randomly grab a CD from your collection, pop it in your system for a listen, and think, "hmm, the bass sounds muddy". Or, "the imaging could be better". Or, "it sounds too analytical (whatever that means)".

So you think, "I'll try different interconnects. Or maybe a different amp. Or maybe I should put my transport up on cones. I'm sure one of those changes will make it _sound_better_."

So you make a change and lo and behold, the bass is more taught, or now you can pick out exactly where that trumpet is in the soundstage. Great! What did you really accomplish???

Maybe the bass on that CD _is_ muddy, or maybe the imaging _is_ poor. What happens when you listen to a different CD, say one that (unbeknownst to you) is the mythical "perfect recording" of the original event. Because of the changes you made to your system, the highs are now too shrill, or...

Hmm, maybe you need a new preamp!

The whole idea of "high fidelity" is faithfull reproduction of the input signal (music). A crappy recording should sound crappy. Anything we do to make it "sound better" is by definition distortion.

And since objective measurements like THD or frequency response don't seem to tell the whole story, we're left in a subjective mess with everyone in search of things that will make their rig "sound better".

I wonder how the analog SQ of the BDP-83 SE will compare to the stock Denon 3800? Is anyone getting the SE or their BDP-83 upgraded that has the 3800? I would be curious to hear the impressions from owners of both units.

There is always a risk of 'overselling' something that might in fact be very good.

Or the risk of overselling something that may not be that good at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by soloz2

I thought his comparison sounded more like a sales pitch than an actual comparison...

I think the following quote from his website says a lot about his credibility as an objective reviewer:

Quote:

Listened to the MBBModded unit versus a stock Oppo 83 using HDMI into my 42 inch Plasma (my only HDMI input thang). I wanted to see if I could hear or see a difference via HDMI using my TV. Sure enough the sound was fuller, warmer and more real on the MBBM unit and the colors were more saturated and pure and the pic was slightly more detailed and real looking.

I especially liked the bit about colours being more saturated and the pic being more detailed.

I wonder how the analog SQ of the BDP-83 SE will compare to the stock Denon 3800? Is anyone getting the SE or their BDP-83 upgraded that has the 3800? I would be curious to hear the impressions from owners of both units.

Bill

I ordered a BDP-83SE to replace my aging Denon 2200. (Not a 3800, I realize, but the guts are somewhat similar (I think). The 2200 uses DSD1791 DAC's intead of the 3800's DSD1796's.) It should be here either Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm looking forward to doing a side-by-side comparison. I have 2 copies of Guster's "Keep it Together" CD that I can load into both players and do a simultaneous A/B analog comparo through my (also aging) Denon 1803 receiver. I'll post my results once I receive the OPPO.

But it's probably another $1500 in labor to get those parts installed . Anyone who claims they can hear a difference in the sound when connecting a stock versus modded player to their "42 inch plasma TV" (brand and model not even mentioned) isn't going to touch any of my A/V gear or get any of my $$$.