Ded Valve I would argue that the purpose of the entire game has been survival. Of course survival and defeating the reapers have gone hand in hand throughout the series, but I'd say that defeating the reapers is secondary to that main goal of survival. Control IS fishy, but much the same way that the Synthesis is Space Magic nonsense that you have to buy into, so is the fact that Control somehow doesn't horribly backfire and doom the entire galaxy. It's stupid that they wrote it that way, but they did write it that way, so Control can't just be discounted.

And the Synthesis ending doesn't Homogenize galactic civilization, otherwise there would no longer be Asari, Turians, Quarians, etc. which there clearly are. It just now all races DNA now has synthetic elements to it, but I imagine if reproduction is still possible then Asari will still have little blue babies, they'll just have glowing eyes now.

I'm not as sure about if they'll still have the capability to evolve, but at this point in the future, choosing the path of evolution through science seems like something we're more than capable of. Especially if we have synthetic improvements now.

Re: Synthesize: Are you supposed to assume that all organics melded with synthetics? Like the Varen? The Yarg? What about the universes and planets that have un-advanced civilizations? Did they all get hit with a wave and get changed without any input of any kind? Are we supposed to assume that purely organic life no longer exists in the galaxy? That the lowest organism suddenly has synthetic elements to it? That seems a bit more than far fetched.

If it is just the advanced species that were synthesized, now you create an issue as other organics become advanced and are 'not as good as' the synthesized species.

finalfight Imma have to go with what Ded Valve said, We set out to stop Saren and are given just about infinite freedom (contextually) to do so, then we find out about Reapers and unlike a great many enemies including the big bad of the first game, these beings cannot be reasoned with, they can not be convinced, they cannot be given quarter or they win. That being said Controlling them isn't solving anything, they are still there, they are still a threat should they shake free from their shackles, Synthesizing the galaxy (not Reapers mind you, as they are already like that) makes the races fundamentally the same as Reapers, but should the Reapers change their purpose from destroying Organics to destroying advanced life then we are more uniform like the Protheans and thus easier to conquer cause they are still chillin in the Galaxy (dark space) somewhere, watching. That leaves Destroy, destroy synthetics including EDI and Geth and presumably VIs and other stuff like that, but also destroys every Reaper in the Milky Way (Who knows about our neighbor Andromeda or any others), thus effectively destroying the single greatest threat to life ever. Seems like the best choice to me. Sacrifices are made, but the best things often come at a cost don't you think?

I'm just suspicious of Control and Synthesize cause the Reapers are still around and it was... too easy. Theres no real dilemma, no people dying, nothing destroyed, its too clean for a realistic story Mass Effect is supposed to be.

Re: Synthesize: Are you supposed to assume that all organics melded with synthetics? Like the Varen? The Yarg? What about the universes and planets that have un-advanced civilizations? Did they all get hit with a wave and get changed without any input of any kind? Are we supposed to assume that purely organic life no longer exists in the galaxy? That the lowest organism suddenly has synthetic elements to it? That seems a bit more than far fetched.

If it is just the advanced species that were synthesized, now you create an issue as other organics become advanced and are 'not as good as' the synthesized species.

To answer every question... Yes. That's what I got from it. Every single living thing is now synthesized. Now I also think that it may not have permeated into every nook and cranny of the galaxy what with using the Mass Relays to spread there nice little color coded explosion. So that said, any original life after the fact will (could) be purely Organic) Course that means its going to be a long time before we see and sapient life like that again. And I agree with the 'not as good as' prospect, and it could make for an interesting concept. I'm half inclined to believe they have achieved Human Instrumentality a la Evangelion lol. What with everyone being equal and become something akin but not quite like a Individualistic Hive-Mind, and new races coming into that will automatically be outsiders. That's just me thinking too much though.

For the Extended Cut, I would prefer having the Guardian changed from using the form of the child to Saren. The child was chosen in order to bring a sense of familiarity for Shepard. Saren is pretty distinct, and they could bluff that his "form" was either stored inside the Citadel when he tried accessing it in ME or when he became indoctrinated.

For the Extended Cut, I would prefer having the Guardian changed from using the form of the child to Saren. The child was chosen in order to bring a sense of familiarity for Shepard. Saren is pretty distinct, and they could bluff that his "form" was either stored inside the Citadel when he tried accessing it in ME or when he became indoctrinated.

*bleep* that kid, and his Bruce Willis Sixth Sense nobody but Shep ever gives any indication of actually seeing or interacting with him.

That would have been more impacting than some random kid. Seeing Kaiden/Ashley on your missions haunting you, or better yet the godchild constantly changes form everytime you see him to those that died.

I hope the Extended Cut is just an Unextended Cut, and they cut off the game when Shepard collapses in front of the control panel. Slap in some scenes of the Reapers destroying the fleet and winning, then the scene with Buzz Aldrin and the child(but have them be much more obviously alien). That would make everyone rage even more.

*bleep* that kid, and his Bruce Willis Sixth Sense nobody but Shep ever gives any indication of actually seeing or interacting with him.

That would have been more impacting than some random kid. Seeing Kaiden/Ashley on your missions haunting you, or better yet the godchild constantly changes form everytime you see him to those that died.

Agreed! WAY more interesting. I thought it was great that in my Shep's dreams she heard Ash (who died on Virmire) and she heard Thane (who she was involved with) as well as other voices..... why not pull it even further into that and make the Guardian appear as Ash/Kaidan, Mordin, Wrex, Thane - whomever you might have lost in your play through. Really fantastic idea. Not like they would even have to render them special - you already have them in the game, just make them look see through or whatever.

*bleep* that kid, and his Bruce Willis Sixth Sense nobody but Shep ever gives any indication of actually seeing or interacting with him.

That would have been more impacting than some random kid. Seeing Kaiden/Ashley on your missions haunting you, or better yet the godchild constantly changes form everytime you see him to those that died.

Agreed! WAY more interesting. I thought it was great that in my Shep's dreams she heard Ash (who died on Virmire) and she heard Thane (who she was involved with) as well as other voices..... why not pull it even further into that and make the Guardian appear as Ash/Kaidan, Mordin, Wrex, Thane - whomever you might have lost in your play through. Really fantastic idea. Not like they would even have to render them special - you already have them in the game, just make them look see through or whatever.

It would have been even better if god was screwing with your head. Making Kaiden/Ashley resent you for not helping them on virmire and trying to tell you how hopeless it all is, a perfect way of sabotaging you. There would be dialogue options but if you don't have a high enough paragon/renegade score, or depending on the choices you made throughout the series you wouldn't be able to argue back as they keep coming up with more ways to make you doubt yourself and feel guilty whereas with the dialogue options you would instill confidence in yourself and you would "erase" that character from your dreams. The next dream will instead feature a new dead character.

And it could work too as Ashley/Kaiden, Thane, Mordin/Wrex, will always die no matter what, so if you "erase" Ashley by proving that you can beat the reapers, then Thane shows up in the second dream, then Mordin/Wrex in the third. If not then it either stays as Ashley or the numbers just keep growing. Rather than some super slow-mo of you running around in a forest chasing some kid, it would be you and the ghosts of the past having a chat, with god using those ghosts to try and break Shepard.

I hope the Extended Cut is just an Unextended Cut, and they cut off the game when Shepard collapses in front of the control panel. Slap in some scenes of the Reapers destroying the fleet and winning, then the scene with Buzz Aldrin and the child(but have them be much more obviously alien). That would make everyone rage even more.

I'm Buzz Aldrin....buy dlc.

Every game from now one should cut out with absolutely no sense, claim that you are a legend without any explanation as to why then have a celebrity tell you to buy DLC. It'll work everytime.

*bleep* that kid, and his Bruce Willis Sixth Sense nobody but Shep ever gives any indication of actually seeing or interacting with him.

That would have been more impacting than some random kid. Seeing Kaiden/Ashley on your missions haunting you, or better yet the godchild constantly changes form everytime you see him to those that died.

Agreed! WAY more interesting. I thought it was great that in my Shep's dreams she heard Ash (who died on Virmire) and she heard Thane (who she was involved with) as well as other voices..... why not pull it even further into that and make the Guardian appear as Ash/Kaidan, Mordin, Wrex, Thane - whomever you might have lost in your play through. Really fantastic idea. Not like they would even have to render them special - you already have them in the game, just make them look see through or whatever.

It would have been even better if god was screwing with your head. Making Kaiden/Ashley resent you for not helping them on virmire and trying to tell you how hopeless it all is, a perfect way of sabotaging you. There would be dialogue options but if you don't have a high enough paragon/renegade score, or depending on the choices you made throughout the series you wouldn't be able to argue back as they keep coming up with more ways to make you doubt yourself and feel guilty whereas with the dialogue options you would instill confidence in yourself and you would "erase" that character from your dreams. The next dream will instead feature a new dead character.

And it could work too as Ashley/Kaiden, Thane, Mordin/Wrex, will always die no matter what, so if you "erase" Ashley by proving that you can beat the reapers, then Thane shows up in the second dream, then Mordin/Wrex in the third. If not then it either stays as Ashley or the numbers just keep growing. Rather than some super slow-mo of you running around in a forest chasing some kid, it would be you and the ghosts of the past having a chat, with god using those ghosts to try and break Shepard.

It's a seriously brilliant idea. Just by it's very nature it would give each player a different experience, depending on how they played and what their Paragon/Renegade scores were - giving the ending that 'different' flavor everyone was looking for. It would have been easy to implement, without a ton of extra cost. Of course the idea has been used before, but never the less, it would have been FAR more engaging than the Guardian Child.

*bleep* that kid, and his Bruce Willis Sixth Sense nobody but Shep ever gives any indication of actually seeing or interacting with him.

That would have been more impacting than some random kid. Seeing Kaiden/Ashley on your missions haunting you, or better yet the godchild constantly changes form everytime you see him to those that died.

Agreed! WAY more interesting. I thought it was great that in my Shep's dreams she heard Ash (who died on Virmire) and she heard Thane (who she was involved with) as well as other voices..... why not pull it even further into that and make the Guardian appear as Ash/Kaidan, Mordin, Wrex, Thane - whomever you might have lost in your play through. Really fantastic idea. Not like they would even have to render them special - you already have them in the game, just make them look see through or whatever.

It would have been even better if god was screwing with your head. Making Kaiden/Ashley resent you for not helping them on virmire and trying to tell you how hopeless it all is, a perfect way of sabotaging you. There would be dialogue options but if you don't have a high enough paragon/renegade score, or depending on the choices you made throughout the series you wouldn't be able to argue back as they keep coming up with more ways to make you doubt yourself and feel guilty whereas with the dialogue options you would instill confidence in yourself and you would "erase" that character from your dreams. The next dream will instead feature a new dead character.

And it could work too as Ashley/Kaiden, Thane, Mordin/Wrex, will always die no matter what, so if you "erase" Ashley by proving that you can beat the reapers, then Thane shows up in the second dream, then Mordin/Wrex in the third. If not then it either stays as Ashley or the numbers just keep growing. Rather than some super slow-mo of you running around in a forest chasing some kid, it would be you and the ghosts of the past having a chat, with god using those ghosts to try and break Shepard.

It's a seriously brilliant idea. Just by it's very nature it would give each player a different experience, depending on how they played and what their Paragon/Renegade scores were - giving the ending that 'different' flavor everyone was looking for. It would have been easy to implement, without a ton of extra cost. Of course the idea has been used before, but never the less, it would have been FAR more engaging than the Guardian Child.

Another missed opportunity for Bioware.

Exactly! Why the hell doesn't Bioware think of things like this? Or the Indoctrination theory? If Bioware had hired fans as writers, this thread wouldn't exist and the ending would be great.

I mean - don't get me wrong - this game wouldn't exist AT ALL without Bioware. If I recall correctly the impetus of the story came from Drew K. Now Drew K did not write the end but has since come out saying that what he had initially written was close to what happened, so he didn't want people using his name as the lynch pin for what went wrong, buuuuut.....

I can't help but think that EA rushed them. The first release date was 11-11-11. Then it was pushed back. I imagine time was coming to a close and they needed to wrap it up. Just the fact that this DLC isn't coming out until summer kind of points to how long it probably would have taken them to wrap it up the way they probably wanted to. A May release probably would have delivered the game in it's entirety.

I have a hard time blaming this all on Bioware. I think the end was so important they should have done that first, then worked their way back, honestly. That way if things needed to be abbreviated for time's sake - they could have cut the fat from the beginning, not the end.