Pema Rigdzin wrote:P.S.: all of you who do ChNN's Mandarava practice, do you buy chudlen pills or compile your own ingredients or what? If you buy them, where from?

From Shang Shung Institute empowered by Rinpoche himself. It is very difficult to make your own. But take it easy, it is better one step after another. The most important thing is that you understand well what you are doing during practice!

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour" ~ Padmasambhava ~

Dronma wrote:And replying to Pero: I have all DVDs and books here as well. But I still do not think that I know much...

Who said anything about knowing too much?

But seriously now, if I had not received all detailed instructions from Rinpoche, I should be like padma norbu writes: "without knowing what I'm really doing". And I hate that.....!!!!!!!

Guess what? Those books are transcriptions of Rinpoche's teachings. Basically the same as if you were there in person. So how can you say you can't learn from those books while you can learn directly from Rinpoche? Actually Rinpoche often says I'm not going to explain this and this because it's already in the books.

That's why I am saying to the people who are really interested: move on and find a qualified instructor, if not Rinpoche himself who is the perfect source for real knowledge!!!

You think people like me who don't go searching for qualified instructors since we don't feel the need for it aren't really interested? ...

IMO courses are nice but if you understand the instructions for a practice there is no need to go to a course. If people don't understand the instructions completely then they still don't have to think "oh no, I won't be able to do it without going to a course" but can try asking their vajra brothers and sisters for some help. If that doesn't cut it then perhaps it's necessary to go to a course. Of course if you have enough money and time to do whatever you please then going to every course would be great.

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.- Shabkar

Dronma wrote:And replying to Pero: I have all DVDs and books here as well. But I still do not think that I know much...

Who said anything about knowing too much?

But seriously now, if I had not received all detailed instructions from Rinpoche, I should be like padma norbu writes: "without knowing what I'm really doing". And I hate that.....!!!!!!!

Guess what? Those books are transcriptions of Rinpoche's teachings. Basically the same as if you were there in person. So how can you say you can't learn from those books while you can learn directly from Rinpoche? Actually Rinpoche often says I'm not going to explain this and this because it's already in the books.

That's why I am saying to the people who are really interested: move on and find a qualified instructor, if not Rinpoche himself who is the perfect source for real knowledge!!!

You think people like me who don't go searching for qualified instructors since we don't feel the need for it aren't really interested? ...

IMO courses are nice but if you understand the instructions for a practice there is no need to go to a course. If people don't understand the instructions completely then they still don't have to think "oh no, I won't be able to do it without going to a course" but can try asking their vajra brothers and sisters for some help. If that doesn't cut it then perhaps it's necessary to go to a course. Of course if you have enough money and time to do whatever you please then going to every course would be great.

Good for you! May I express my opinion according to my own experiences? Nobody is obliged to do what I am saying....

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour" ~ Padmasambhava ~

They are good, I have got them from there too. The chulen you can get from the dzogchen community (when its available) is made according to Rinpoche's terma and is specific to the Mandarava practice. Usually its also blessed by Rinpoche or at least they used to be. So that would be my first port of call with siddhi energetics second if I'm using them for Mandarava practice. The siddhi energetics one wouldn't have the exact same function I imagine?

They are good, I have got them from there too. The chulen you can get from the dzogchen community (when its available) is made according to Rinpoche's terma and is specific to the Mandarava practice. Usually its also blessed by Rinpoche or at least they used to be. So that would be my first port of call with siddhi energetics second if I'm using them for Mandarava practice. The siddhi energetics one wouldn't have the exact same function I imagine?

As ChNN explains, these are relative considerations -- one does not need pills to do chulen. They are merely supports. You can use Chavayan prash, or anything, really.

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Thanks a lot, everyone! So appreciate the info. Ah Pero, I had no idea that chudlen involved khumbaka. Thanks for noting that! So since I haven't learned khumbaka yet and need to learn it from a DC teacher in person, I guess I'll have to look into upcoming teachings for that. Maybe the observant and astute Malabeads' tip about Elio's teaching in March will be the key to that. Thanks, again everyone!

Well you don't have to learn it necessarily from a DC teacher, I'm sure there are others who teach it. Elio's very nice BTW and you certainly could ask him. The thing is just this, IMO for kumbhaka you need to have the necessary "circuitry". I don't think that for most people it's as easy as someone telling you how to do it because your body just won't be able to comply due to blocks in breathing. Exercises from the kumbhaka course (and I imagine the same for Yantra Yoga) help clear the blocks to make the breathing smooth and also certain exercises in themselves eventually put you in a position to experience kumbhaka during them without any doubt. My advice if you really want to do this is to start practicing Yantra Yoga now and/or the exercises on the Breathe DVD. I guarantee you it will be very helpful for when you start lerning kumbhaka. If those two aren't an option I think also Yoga in general or Qigong will help too.

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.- Shabkar

Dronma wrote:I am trying to learn Mandarava practice for years now and I am not still sure that I know much.... Well, Pema Rigdzin, if you are seriously interested, then you have to follow a course with a qualified instructor of Mandarava practice - there are only a few in the whole Dzogchen Community who are doing courses from time to time.

I don't agree. You can learn it just fine without going to a course.

PR, I was going to say that you should get a DVD but since the video of the practice is on the webcast site it's not necessary. Maybe next to Mandarava book Sonam gave link to (practice text not necessary, it is also on webcast site) you could also get the Mandarava Tsalung practices book. It has better explanation of Chudlen breathing (which requires kumbhaka btw). Perhaps getting the tsalung book would be sufficient as half of it is explanation of the Mandarava practice, I'd have to go through both books a bit to say for sure, can do tomorrow.In the practice text there is long version. The medium version leaves out some invocations (you can see in the text which ones). The short version is mantras only but I think it's slightly different than just leaving out all invocations. I think Rinpoche gives lung for it at the end of retreats but not sure, will check during the weekend and if it's what I'm thinking (Rinpoche taught it during a retreat couple years back) maybe I have the text for it or I can type it out for you. The essential version is described in the Tsalung book but if you don't get that I can tell you as it's really simple.

Pero, have you gotten a chance to look through the Tsalung book? I, too, am wondering which book to purchase as a guide to Mandarava practice with Chudlen and Tsalung. I'm between the Mandarava Tsalung Practices and Practice of Long Life and Chudlen of Mandarava. Any insight?

JinpaRangdrol wrote:Pero, have you gotten a chance to look through the Tsalung book? I, too, am wondering which book to purchase as a guide to Mandarava practice with Chudlen and Tsalung. I'm between the Mandarava Tsalung Practices and Practice of Long Life and Chudlen of Mandarava. Any insight?

Well I looked and I think if you can get only one it's better to get Practice of Long Life and Chudlen of Mandarava because it has more in depth explanation of the practice IMO. In the tsalung book Rinpoche gave a more condensed explanation of the practice and maybe it's wouldn't be sufficient if you don't know Mandarava already.

Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.- Shabkar

JinpaRangdrol wrote:Pero, have you gotten a chance to look through the Tsalung book? I, too, am wondering which book to purchase as a guide to Mandarava practice with Chudlen and Tsalung. I'm between the Mandarava Tsalung Practices and Practice of Long Life and Chudlen of Mandarava. Any insight?

For anybody who is asking about Tsalung: We must first receive transmission from Rinpoche about Mandarava Tsalung, then we can practice.The Lung - that he is usually giving at the end of retreats - is only for doing the practice. Even when we have received transmission for Tsalung, we need to follow as well a course with a qualified instructor for being able to apply the Kumbhaka correctly. At least, it is what Rinpoche advised us at the end of the retreat.

"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour" ~ Padmasambhava ~