This is excellent instruction, I should put this thread in the Instruction section if there is one:

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It looks like Sampras was disguising not just the serve placement but the spin as well. Returners didn't know if a flat or a kick or a slice was coming.

I was tossing at 12 o'clock for a kick serve and 1 o'clock for a flat serve.

The new coach then told me to try to use basically the same toss for kick and flat (use a very slight tossing difference). He said if my toss varied too much for a kick serve, I would be giving the spin away.

I had thought it wasn't a big issue if the returner knew a kick serve was coming but I can understand why the coach thinks its important to disguise the spin.

The key is that the players must spend 50% of their practice time on learning all types of serves and then applying it in pointplay situations. In the coaching camps I observe that too much time is spent on ground strokes and very little on serve. We all know that a point does not start with a ground stroke, it starts with a serve.

The serve should be practiced in two segments:

1. Serving from the basket to various targets, (spin control, heights), etc., and

2. Pointplay situations, practice sets, etc.

For example, in pointplay situations the following discipline may be followed:

Playpoints or a set with the following rule:

If you win the point with a volley and/or a smash you win 4 points. If you win the point from the baseline you win just 1 point.

This will improve the other essential area such as approach shots because without quality approach shot you can't have a decent first volley.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Not read Andre's book myself. The first time I heard of the tell, someone said that it was Henman. The 2nd time I heard the story, it was Sampras. Goes to show you... unless it's on the internet, it may not be true (and I am a French model).
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True if you only take into account the first serve, but factoring in the second serve Pete has the best overall. He was more dangerous with his second serve than a lot of pros are with their first.

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Correct, there were a few that had 1st serves that could hang with Pete, but day in and day out, no one could hang with his 2nd serve. Pete had the only 2nd serve that could frustrate Agassi. Pete would pick up his 2nd serve up quality against Agassi and it was almost as effective as his 1st serve.

Pete had the best serve overall that I have seen since I started paying attention in the mid-70s.

Disquise is important but I have noticed that Federer uses 2 tosses. He 1st serve toss appears to be toward 1 and out front. His 2nd serve toss is around 12 and not quite as far out front. He can hit L, R or middle from these 2 toss locations.

Disquise is important but I have noticed that Federer uses 2 tosses. He 1st serve toss appears to be toward 1 and out front. His 2nd serve toss is around 12 and not quite as far out front. He can hit L, R or middle from these 2 toss locations.

So, I don't think it is too bad to move the toss.

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Can Federer still hit slice and flat, along with kick, with the second serve toss?

Coach thinks that it's important not to telegraph the spin, else the returner will have an advantage if he knows it will always be a kick with a 12 o'clock toss.

Disquise is important but I have noticed that Federer uses 2 tosses. He 1st serve toss appears to be toward 1 and out front. His 2nd serve toss is around 12 and not quite as far out front. He can hit L, R or middle from these 2 toss locations.

So, I don't think it is too bad to move the toss.

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Sampras has also spoken of using 2 different tosses. However, the difference in his 2 tosses, or Roger's 2 tosses will usually be less noticeable than it is for us mere mortals. Even 3 different tosses are ok for most of us as long as it is effective.

No need to disguise the fact that we are hitting the 2nd serve with more spin that the first. It is more important to disguise your placement than the type of serve you are delivering. Your shoulder motion and the swing path of your racket should tip the receiver off to the type of serve -- Can't get around that even if you try to disguise with your toss. You do not want to vary the toss just to vary the placement of your serve.

Pete is definitely right about this. He really had an extraordinary service motion. Whether he was crushing, slicing, or topping the ball, the difference in the swings was so subtle that you could really notice it only in the slow motion.

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Are you saying that with Sampras, the changes in his swing path and toss were so subtle that the returner often could not tell if a flat,slice or kick was coming?

Isn't hitting a first serve ace or unreturnable serve ALWAYS more desirable than hitting a serve that requires a follow-up volley?

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Yes, attempting to ace an opponent isn't always the correct play. If you go for fast serves at wide angles all the time you will hit a ridiculous number of faults and put a lot of pressure on your second serve. Also your opponent will get used to having to return your best serves, making them less effective than if you mix the serve up, which they can't get as used to and leaves the ace attempt as more of a surprise.

Was it Sampras or Tim Henman that Agassi could read intended serve direction by the position/direction of the tip of his tongue? This would certainly be ironic if it was Pistol Pete that had this "tell".

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That's what Agassi said of Becker's serve about the tongue. Eventually Becker kicked the habit.