Hi, I'm wondering if it would be better to translate Muditā (joy) as appreciative joy, instead of altruistic, sympathetic, or empathetic joy, because to my understanding it is not really the selfless joy. We rejoice at our own and others’ goodness and wellbeing, both filled with peace and contentment instead of exhilaration obtained from sensual pleasure. Mudita can serve as an inner spring of joy and contentment, which is a prerequisite for Samadhi, and can also serve as antidotes to negative mental states (non-virtues) such as discontent, anger, resentment, jealousy, or envy. It appears to be as important to be able to rejoice at our own good deeds and success.

By the way, I couldn't find an English or Chinese sutta that actually defined the meaning of Muditā. I'd appreciate your recommendations of such suttas.

starter wrote:Hi, I'm wondering if it would be better to translate Muditā (joy) as appreciative joy, instead of altruistic, sympathetic, or empathetic joy, because to my understanding it is not really the selfless joy. We rejoice at our own and others’ goodness and wellbeing, both filled with peace and contentment instead of exhilaration obtained from sensual pleasure. Mudita can serve as an inner spring of joy and contentment, which is a prerequisite for Samadhi, and can also serve as antidotes to negative mental states (non-virtues) such as discontent, anger, resentment, jealousy, or envy. It appears to be as important to be able to rejoice at our own good deeds and success.

By the way, I couldn't find an English or Chinese sutta that actually defined the meaning of Muditā. I'd appreciate your recommendations of such suttas.

Thanks and metta!

mudita is (to my understanding) more for others. but as to its translation sure, it is an appreciation.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion … ...He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.John Stuart Mill

Mettā - concern for the the welfare of all beings - wanting all beings to be well and happy

Karuṇā - the depth/strength of that concern

Muditā - the happiness experienced as the idea of self diminishes amongst this concern. In other words, a concern that was once reserved for the self is extended to all beings, which diminishes the value and importance of the self (idea of self).

47. Mudità—Derived from √ mud, to be pleased.It is not mere sympathy but appreciative joy. Its directenemy is jealousy and its indirect enemy is exultation(Pahàsa). Its chief characteristic is happy acquiescence inothers’ prosperity (Anumodanà). Mudità embraces prosperousbeings. It discards dislike (Arati), and is the congratulatoryattitude of a person.

1. Gladness is characterized as gladdening (produced by others’ success).2. Its function resides in being unenvious. 3. It is manifested as the elimination of aversion (boredom). 4. Its proximate cause is seeing beings, success.

It succeeds when it makes aversion (boredom) subside, and it fails when it produces merriment.

Many thanks for your input. I'd like to know the definition of Mudita in the suttas, if any. I haven't found a sutta that actually defined Mudita.

Metta to all!

None of the occurrences of the term in the Sutta Pitaka is accompanied by any definition as such. However, the abhidhammic identification of muditā as a state opposed to arati is supported in the Dasuttara Sutta:

Or he might say, "I have developed the emancipation of the heart through sympathetic joy, and yet resentment still grips my heart..." He should be told, "No! Do not say that! Do not misrepresent the Blessed Lord, it is not right to slander him thus, for he would not have said such a thing! Your words are unfounded and impossible. If you develop the emancipation of the heart through sympathetic joy, resentment has no chance to envelop your heart. This emancipation through sympathetic joy is the cure for resentment."

Your help is very much appreciated. To my premature understanding of the cited teachings, the resentment could be toward others, and could also be toward oneself. If we want to practice the cure for resentment and discontent (MN 62) for Samadhi, then we might include the appreciation for our own goodness and success as well -- or is there another term/teaching for the appreciative joy towards oneself?

To my premature understanding of the cited teachings, the resentment could be toward others, and could also be toward oneself.

I don’t think it is clear in the Suttas whether or not arati / anabhirati may be directed toward oneself. The Abhidhamma commentaries, however, conceive it as something that is wholly other-directed. Resentment is stated to be the function (rasa) of the mental factor of envy (issā cetasika). Obviously it is psychologically impossible to be envious of yourself. That is to say, you can’t be enjoying some success or happiness and yet simultaneously resent your possession of it.

An unattractive woman, for example, may resent a beautiful woman’s possession of beauty, but a beautiful woman would not ordinarily resent her own possession of beauty. Where she does resent it, it will either be because she fails to perceive it (as in the case of an anorexic woman with a delusional perception of her bodily dimensions) or because of some unwished for consequences deriving from it (perhaps it leads to her being constantly harrassed by unwelcome suitors). In these cases, however, the resentment is directed towards something that the woman perceives to be a flaw or drawback (vipatti) rather than an asset (sampatti). Resentment of a flaw (or of what one perceives to be a flaw) would consist in the mental factor of aversion (dosa), not the mental factor of envy (issā).

If we want to practice the cure for resentment and discontent (MN 62) for Samadhi, then we might include the appreciation for our own goodness and success as well -- or is there another term/teaching for the appreciative joy towards oneself?

As you may have seen from the Vibhaṅga quote posted by Dmytro, muditā even in the Canon is conceived as other-directed. The commentaries make it clearer why this is so. The range of potential ārammaṇas for any beautiful mental factor is co-extensive with the range of potential ārammaṇas for the unwholesome state that it opposes and displaces. So, whomsoever may be the object of one’s envy may also be the object of one’s sympathetic joy. But as we have seen, one cannot be the object of one’s own envy. From this it follows that one cannot be the object of one’s own muditā.

This is not to say that joy doesn’t arise on account of one’s own sampattis, but merely that ‘joy’ in this case would be a term for something other than muditā. Whereas muditā is always reckoned as wholesome (except when occurring in the kiriyācittas of an arahant, when it is merely functional), the joy that arise in connection with one’s own sampattis may be wholesome or unwholesome. If, for example, you win the lottery and joy arises as you dream of all the ways you’ll now be able to indulge yourself, then this would be unwholesome pīti and sukha. But if joy arises as you contemplate all the gifts that you now plan to give people, then it would be wholesome pīti and sukha. In neither case would the joy be termed muditā.

Many thanks for your very helpful clarification. I agree we can separate two types of wholesome joy: one directed toward others' goodness and righteous success (Mudita as you explained) for overcoming envy and jealousy, and one directed toward our own goodness and righteous success (pāmojja?) for overcoming discontent. I'd practice the appreciation of both.

The beautiful model who is aging and losing her beauty being envious of her youthful beauty?The talented musician who is aging and can't compete with their younger selves?The yogi who loses some attainments through health or lack of practice?

You could argue that it's the dukkha of losing what one had rather than being envious, but many people experiencing that kind of dukha has the wish, "I wish I could be that young talented/beautiful person again", which is a very typical emotion for that situation. dictionary.com defines envy as:"a feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc."Based on that defintion, there definitely is discontent and covetousness with one's youthful self, so I would argue this qualifies as envy.

frank k wrote:Could these examples be considered being envious of one self?

The beautiful model who is aging and losing her beauty being envious of her youthful beauty?The talented musician who is aging and can't compete with their younger selves?The yogi who loses some attainments through health or lack of practice?

You could argue that it's the dukkha of losing what one had rather than being envious, but many people experiencing that kind of dukha has the wish, "I wish I could be that young talented/beautiful person again", which is a very typical emotion for that situation. dictionary.com defines envy as:"a feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc."Based on that defintion, there definitely is discontent and covetousness with one's youthful self, so I would argue this qualifies as envy.

Hi Frank K.,

That seems like a strained use of the word envy... besides, it would be the young self (conventionally speaking) that one will be directing the mudita to, not to the present self.

Also, I don't think that this would be a skillful way of cultivating the mudita, for the purpose of liberation... because it's only directed to what's in the past, instead of what's currently at the hand.

In any case, the key word in the definition that you gave still seems to be "another."

So, abhidhamma, and commentary of sāriputta school wrote about arati==issā.

So, I had quoted below from commentary:

theY wrote:Ok, I found it.

Muditā Definition:

1. Gladness is characterized as gladdening (produced by others’ success).2. Its function resides in being unenvious. 3. It is manifested as the elimination of aversion (boredom). 4. Its proximate cause is seeing beings, success.

It succeeds when it makes aversion (boredom) subside, and it fails when it produces merriment.

frank k wrote:Could these examples be considered being envious of one self?

The beautiful model who is aging and losing her beauty being envious of her youthful beauty?

Is the aging model (musician, yogi) afflicted with some dissociative disorder, such that she supposes her remembered younger self to be a wholly different person, lacking any causal continuity with her present self? If she is, then I suppose that there may arise in her envy towards her past self whom she perceives to be someone else. I’ll leave it to any shrinks who might be reading this to pronounce on whether such a thing is actually possible. But even supposing that it is, clearly we would be talking about a psychologically very exceptional situation and not a sane puthujjana’s typical mental functioning.

On the other hand, if we are talking about an aging model experiencing the normal sort of misery that comes with losing one’s good looks, then I can only say ditto to Beeblebrox’s contribution. I don’t think the semantic range of ‘envy’ (even by your own quoted dictionary definition of it, let alone the very precise commentarial delimiting of issā) would extend to the scenarios you’re describing.

Thanks to all for the very stimulating discussion on mudita. I re-read the thread again, and am still feeling unsatisfied similarly to how starter expressed in his messages of why mudita can not be directed towards self. Since the brahmaviharas seems to be a pretty comprehensive system in expanding, refining love from selfish to selfless and boundless, I find it very odd that appreciative joy directed towards oneself is explicitly excluded.

In practicing metta and karuna towards our self, it can strengthen our foundation in that practice when we apply that practice to others. With appreciative joy, one of human nature's most common and serious defects is to not appreciate the good fortune that we have, but to feel discontent towards what we don't have, losing perspective of our overall good fortune. I find it a powerful practice to be frequently appreciative of the opportunity to encounter proper dhamma, have good dhamma friends, food to eat, etc. By including this practice under mudita (as a brahmavihara), does it somehow lessen the ability for one to decrease envy, jealousy, and resentment towards others for the good fortune they encounter?

Especially this... "Since the brahmaviharas seems to be a pretty comprehensive system in expanding, refining love from selfish to selfless and boundless, I find it very odd that appreciative joy directed towards oneself is explicitly excluded."

"Selfless and boundless" would not discriminate between "self" and "other"...