For me, the "complete package" applies to the all round best like Browning, Yagudin, Lambiel, Chan, Takahashi, et al. There are complete packages missing nerves/consistency such as Abbott and Sandhu. Some of my favorite skaters are great artists without the biggest jumps, like Sawyer, Beacom, Britten, etc. Some others may be even more beautiful to watch if they dumb down the technical contents further. They would made good show skaters but they don't get a chance without big medals. While I think Lysacek won his OGM fair and square, my problem with him is not about his on and off quad but lack of artistry and charisma. Kozuka and Oda are almost there, missing just a little to account for their relatively fewer wins.

There seems to be some that say Brown doesn't have a 3A so he's suddenly in the "great performers but have little chance of being a successful competitive skater in the future" category. And there are others who put him in the "complete package/all-around skater" category because despite the lack of 3A/quad he does seem to seem to have a solid handle on everything else (no UR/edge call triples besides the 3A, level 3/4 non-jump sequences, decent PCS).

My stance has always been is that he still has things to work on (including the 3A), but that he already shows an overall package that seems to have worked for him so far in his career and has yielded success as a junior-level skater. I think that is what most people are talking about.

Certainly if he wants to get to that "elite" or "platinum" all-around skater category that will bode success at the senior level (a la Takahashi, Chan and even Abbott), he will need a 3A/quad + further refinement.

I have not been interested in Juniors before but this year's crop is truly promising. I posted a few months ago Han Yan was my discovery this season. Farris is getting my attention too. (Brown is a can't miss with all the GS gushes.)

Of the future of these three, I would send them shopping. Yan needs a good choreography, while Farris should buy himself some personality and Brown technical prowess. Who do you think has the best chance of getting what he needs very quickly and easily?

Since they are all so young and talented, I have no doubt eventually they will all grow into the complete packages or nearly so

eta. I formed my impression of Farris watching his SP but after the LP, I wouldn't even call him dull. He has flair and just needs refinement and expression, like all young ones do.

etaa. I had wanted to write a story of three little princes going to the Wizard of Oz but couldn't come up with a good name for Farris. There lies his problem. No obvious and distinctive characteristics, physically or name and style wise.

I have not been interested in Juniors before but this year's crop is truly promising. I posted a few months ago Han Yan was my discovery this season. Farris is getting my attention too. (Brown is a can't miss with all the GS gushes.)

Of the future of these three, I would send them shopping. Yan needs a good choreography, while Farris should buy himself some personality and Brown technical prowess. Who do you think has the best chance of getting what he needs very quickly and easily?

Since they are all so young and talented, I have no doubt eventually they will all grow into the complete packages or nearly so

eta. I formed my impression of Farris watching his SP but after the LP, I wouldn't even call him dull. He has flair and just needs refinement and expression, like all young ones do.

I guess Brown is striking to many GS posters because he does have that performance aspect down. Of course audience connect =/= successful competition. But I think many see him as one to watch because he does combine that performance ability with a solid — if not complete — arsenal of technical elements. And I think the fact he has that ability as a junior stands out given the canned programs most juniors have.

I think it has been harder for some to connect to Farris or Han because they don't necessarily have that same draw/personality or choreography that grabs you and says "I'm one to watch for!" It's a great achievement that both skaters have quads/3A and other technical abilities (such as SS for Han) at such a young age (especially considering most juniors don't have those elements), but for some reason it doesn't resonate the same way for some as being precocious in choreography/performance.

I think Yan getting choreography will depend on his federation being willing to spend the money for it. Given his GPF medal and JW win, I would say he has good chance on getting it. Now that his growth spurt/boot issues have settled down, Brown can focus more on the 3A. I would say the the challenge is greatest for Farris to get some personality because that's not as tangible an item to get as getting a 3A or some decent choreography. I'm not sure if you can teach "personality" per se, but maybe he'll be inspired by Chan and the other skaters.

Yan is one of those whose moves within the first seconds of a program impresses me with the quality of his skating, something I get from very few skaters, and never from a Junior. His immediate speed and his edges hit me right away. Though he needs to stroke, unlike Chan who generates speed from seemingly nowhere, Yan is very fast with ice coverage and huuuge jumps. There is a basic quality that permeates every aspect of his skating even though some of his arm movements and expressions could use quite a bit of improvement. That is a great foundation to build on. He is more like Chan that way too, but even more precocious but that is what I always say about someone raising the bar to become the standard for the next ones.

Both Yan and Farris seems to be shy young boys and a little maturity and seasoning will bring out their personalities and performance/expression I am sure. See Yan's ex program for artistry. Brown is hard working and determined so his 3A will come. Of course then quad will be demanded of him.

Originally Posted by Bluebonnet

Originally Posted by Mrs. P

...or even "Jason will someday beat Patrick Chan."

I can pinpoint exactly where this has been said. It was in 2012 US Nationals thread.

Yes, it was also said that Jason Brown made Abbott look like a novice.