I have an August 8 BJ pre-order. Have received the main unit but not MPP. Since MPP was added on later it is not part of my original sales contract. I wonder if MPP claims will be recognized?

To my knowledge the MPP was not part of anyone's sales contract. It was an oral obligation made by HF and backed up by the content of their website. When I was looking to purchase units in September 2013 I raised my concerns that the sales contract did not include the MPP. Further, I talked with Eduardo on the phone and he blew off my concerns.

If you go back through the thread you'll see that I pointed this out on a number of occasions.

I have no more say in the matter than anyone else, I'm just a small creditor, but in my view the MPP claims absolutely must be pursued. They were not an oral pledge (which in any event can be an enforceable contract), they were very explicitly spelled out on the website, including a Q&A, and the MPP was expressly placed under the TOS. MPP claims are absolutely legitimate. I bought after the MPP was announced, and I bought because the MPP was announced. It was what put me over the edge.

It does get a little confusing deciding where, in the order of things and in our present situation, the MPP claims stand in terms of their priority. But maybe the way things are worked out will make that question irrelevant.

Will the creditor's lawyers be able to show something concrete to screw HF during the next hearing? That would do something. Like a 3 minute summary of HF's history of mismanagement and fraud (in perfect "9/11: A Conspiracy Theory" corbett report style). I'm listening to the hearing a second time, and I really don't like how the lies of their lawyer seems like to be effective at convincing the judge that HF is acting in good faith... Destroy them, please.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

So what will this mean? If Hashfast will lost this, what will happend? Or if they win, Someone can give me a quick summary of this?

It sounds like Hashfast is going to go into Bankruptcy no matter what. At issue is how it happens. The creditors don't trust the current Hashfast management (rightfully so in my opinion) so the main "win" they will be looking for is a decision that removes the original Hashfast management from control of the company and places it with someone that will look out for the creditor's (ie: customers who are still owed product/money) interests.

The creditors want that to happen ASAP Hashfast doesn't want that to happen and they will probably submit a bankruptcy plan that involves Simon still being part of the company. The judge seems inclined to deny the creditor's request for immediately removing the HF management based on a procedural issue in the law but the creditor's would be able to ask again in a couple weeks once HF submitted their official chapter 11 bankruptcy plan.

Also being discussed is the best way to recover the most money for the creditors and what a fair market value is for the golden nonce chip which HF claims is their only significant remaining asset. They caught Simon at the Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago apparently trying to make a deal to sell the remaining inventory of chips for below market prices to a mining operation outside US jurisdiction in exchange for a stake of the mined Bitcoins which he seemed to think he could then hide from US law.

Really a lot of things are up in the air at this point so no one knows what will happen. To use baseball by analogy this is like the first half of the first inning

So every day that Simon tries to hold on as CEO and the creditors can't reach a deal among themselves,

Simon Barber is not and never was the CEO, he is the CTO...... I'm not sure why this mistake keeps coming up...

During the hearing they seemed to be saying that Edward was no longer the CEO and that Simon was now running the show. I think they referred to him at one point as the "president" of Hashfast so you can give Simon what ever title you want but he is now running things. Listen to the court hearing starting at 18:40

So every day that Simon tries to hold on as CEO and the creditors can't reach a deal among themselves,

Simon Barber is not and never was the CEO, he is the CTO...... I'm not sure why this mistake keeps coming up...

During the hearing they seemed to be saying that Edward was no longer the CEO and that Simon was now running the show. I think they referred to him at one point as the "president" of Hashfast so you can give Simon what ever title you want but he is now running things. Listen to the court hearing starting at 18:40

They had said Simon ran the show while Edward was dealing with the house fire I believe, but I guess now he's in charge... I have to finish listening to the tape of the hearing. And I never really thought Simon was less sleazy than Edward, but now having a chip designer running the business makes it even worse I suppose.

Thank you pmorici for the clarification, I'll refrain from speaking up again until I have more facts

Will the creditor's lawyers be able to show something concrete to screw HF during the next hearing? That would do something. Like a 3 minute summary of HF's history of mismanagement and fraud (in perfect "9/11: A Conspiracy Theory" corbett report style). I'm listening to the hearing a second time, and I really don't like how the lies of their lawyer seems like to be effective at convincing the judge that HF is acting in good faith... Destroy them, please.

Perhaps. But I would not assume that they have read all of the information you compiled Cedivad. I think your best bet would be to send an email to each of the creditor attorneys today and make sure that they have the details which you believe are most relevant to the next hearing. Then, once a trustee is appointed, it is very common for parties to provide information directly to them in an effort to educate the trustee about the facts of the case.

@bkminer, Edward left, full point. There is a vacancy as CEO, probably taken from Simon. Worst case scenario it's their ex CFO, if he hasn't flown back to HK yet. You are confusing things

@btchedge, I doubt they need any help, actually. They are better financed and much more intelligent than I'm. Just take a look at things like the "timeline" and you will figure out yourself a very, very long series of contradictions... So I won't bother them... They have their testimony, their contracts, the statements of Edward that HF was doing just fine financially, the "millions of dollars unaccounted for"... You don't need to resort to our low level gossip (blog, posts, etc) to prove their bad faith. I just really hope that they are gonna be destroyed in no time (and to hear their lawyer saying that he will have to resign, as he promised to (lol, what a low level tactic)).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

I think they paid them selfs handsomely. And when the ship 🚢 sinks they are good to go. They did what they wanted, rape everyone. Did everyone from batch 1 make there bitcoins back?Or am I Silly for saying That.

I think they paid them selfs handsomely. And when the ship 🚢 sinks they are good to go. They did what they wanted, rape everyone. Did everyone from batch 1 make there bitcoins back?Or am I Silly for saying That.

You really ought to change your signature.

Nobody has made their bitcoins back mining with Hashfast equipment.

If the ship sinks (liquidation), there are plenty of people who will tie Eddie, Simon, and Scrotum to the deck.

What I mean by that is that Hashfast has angered enough people with its lies and vanishing money that, through some combination of bankruptcy, civil, and maybe criminal lawsuits, it will be ensured that Hashfast's management does not personally profit from this fiasco.

I couldn't help myself not noticing similarities... Location, Michael Ramos (previously at HF), Website, ToS... Who wants to bet that (somehow) we will find a relationship between the two companies, like our money used to tapeout their asic?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

I couldn't help myself not noticing similarities... Location, Michael Ramos (previously at HF), Website, ToS... Who wants to bet that (somehow) we will find a relationship between the two companies, like our money used to tapeout their asic?

We need to make sure that whatever threads are on this company are aware of the HF debacle. It's really even our responsibility to do so, to make sure nobody else gets sucked into the same trap.

Did anybody ever go down and pull Abram's criminal record at the courthouse in San Jose? I posted the case numbers in this thread. Come on, one of you in the Bay Area, it's possible that it is nothing significant... but on the other hand it could very interesting.

This reinforces my suspicion that there was a pronster investment behind Hashfast (represented at the company by Kottmeier and Skrodenis), and those people may have our money, and may have subsequently put it in this company.

EDIT:

Just as an addition, Bliss is claiming on its website that their ASIC will mine Vertcoin, a scrypt-n altcoin that is designed to be ASIC-resistant. The website also uses the Vertcoin logo. Well, apparently, the Vertcoin devs have made clear that they will fork VTC if the product from Abram's company hits the streets, so if Bliss ever actually makes any units, they will likely be DOA for anybody wanting to mine Vertcoin with them. Bliss knows this, as its lead has weighed in on Reddit threads. The attitude of some of the Vertcoin guys is that Bliss is engaged in what's tantamount to fraud, by suggesting those machines will mine VTC when they know VTC will fork to avoid them.

I keep having the same dream; they spent everything in development and tapeout costs. BlissDevices isn't incorporated anywhere (at least anywhere I could find with a fast search), yet they have simulations numbers for their ASIC. Maybe they are really only reselling HF's.

Anyway, we will soon find out.

Edit, they are trying to raise $4M because they can't pay for the tapeout costs, so the dream actually is a dream. It's still to be seen how they paid for the IP, though.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

i didn't read the hole thread, but DONT buy anything from from hashfast.i have ordered some babyjets from them,and a couple of months later i red, people don't get anything from them. so i asked for a refund of my money, they send me the refund forms, but after that i didn't hear anything more of them.i have send already over 10 mails, called about 5 times. nothing!!!

i didn't read the hole thread, but DONT buy anything from from hashfast.i have ordered some babyjets from them,and a couple of months later i red, people don't get anything from them. so i asked for a refund of my money, they send me the refund forms, but after that i didn't hear anything more of them.i have send already over 10 mails, called about 5 times. nothing!!!

this is now going on for at least 2 months.

so DON'T buy anything from them

you poor little guy. We didn't have a thread like this when we ordered. It was all about putting faith in hashfast. It sounds like you ordered recently, I hope you paid in cash not bitcoin like I did. Best of luck dude and welcome to the never ending pit of lies from HF. Talk to cidivad he might give you a little guid.

I couldn't help myself not noticing similarities... Location, Michael Ramos (previously at HF), Website, ToS... Who wants to bet that (somehow) we will find a relationship between the two companies, like our money used to tapeout their asic?

The idea of HF money going to tapeout Bliss is just completely ridiculous.

There is no connection other than the fact that certain individuals on the sales side who had a bit of a falling out with HF management ended up at Bliss. Obviously they had been talking to the Bliss founders and each other before they quit or were fired. There is no connection between the technical people at Bliss and the technical people at HF whatsoever.

There is no money connection, unless there are some mutual secret investors behind the scenes. I doubt it. HF generally didn't seem to consider Scrypt to be strategic at all. There was no work on a Scrypt ASIC whatsoever as far as I know. No one even mentioned Scrypt or Altcoins. The attitude is/was that those are also-rans and a distraction from Bitcoin.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

i didn't read the hole thread, but DONT buy anything from from hashfast.i have ordered some babyjets from them,and a couple of months later i red, people don't get anything from them. so i asked for a refund of my money, they send me the refund forms, but after that i didn't hear anything more of them.i have send already over 10 mails, called about 5 times. nothing!!!