Let all Metafilter commenters know that I am going to always be immediately biased towards an argument with phrases like: "I say thee nay!"*, but even without that winning phrase, I agree whole-heartedly with this point.

* I'm also a fan of "by all accounts, [x] has an enormous penis, yet it's [y] who looks like he's about to burst out of his tights" but that will probably be harder for you to work into your diatribes.posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:54 AM on December 7, 2012 [1 favorite]

Also, what's the current canon explanation for why his clothes generally don't rip off during fights? Are they still using that "invulnerability field" thing?posted by griphus at 10:57 AM on December 7, 2012

I am surprised by how cogent and well-written this was. I heartily agree with the points discussed, and I too agree with MCMikeNamara that several of these phrases should become common on the blue.posted by blurker at 11:00 AM on December 7, 2012

They should wear like racing leather outfits. Light and flexible but provides some protection. I've thought that for years and years.posted by 2bucksplus at 11:00 AM on December 7, 2012

So Superman's new costume is basically an X-Men uniform with a stylish red cape?posted by KokuRyu at 11:00 AM on December 7, 2012 [5 favorites]

Indestructible Kryptonian armour.

I mean I guess that's better than the Flash family's "congealed speed force" explanation.posted by griphus at 11:00 AM on December 7, 2012

I wonder if the change was influenced by the fact that modern live-action super heroes now wear flexible body armor and it would be silly to put underpants over something that looks like armor.posted by justkevin at 11:01 AM on December 7, 2012 [1 favorite]

If you take away the underpants, then the only eye-catching feature of his crotchal region becomes the contours of his junk, or rather the weird pillowy bulge that superheroes have instead of junk. The pants elided and concealed that particular superfeature, whereas it's now unavoidable.

Yeah, Iron Man sure would look silly if the armor on his crotch area was a different color than his legs.posted by straight at 11:03 AM on December 7, 2012

And now I've actually read the article, I see he's already made that point, haha. He even used the ever-useful phrase crotchal region. Great minds think alike I guess!posted by Drexen at 11:03 AM on December 7, 2012

Wow, that pic of Henry Cavill as Supes in the article looks as though he just took a Dump of Steel, or is desperately trying to find the Toliet of Solitude in order to do so.posted by Kitteh at 11:04 AM on December 7, 2012 [15 favorites]

He's so indestructible he should just fight naked ala Dr. Manhattan.

Invulnerable to scrutiny.posted by yonega at 11:05 AM on December 7, 2012

it would be silly to put underpants over something that looks like armor.

To be fair, these are overpants. They are over the tights, which are (one presumes*) worn over underpants.

I am more curious about how male superheroes shirts are tight enough to show off every muscle in their abs but somehow occludes navel and nipples.....

*Or, at the least, declines to say if one is a gentleman.posted by GenjiandProust at 11:06 AM on December 7, 2012

I wonder if the change was influenced by the fact that modern live-action super heroes now wear flexible body armor and it would be silly to put underpants over something that looks like armor.

Nolan's Batman wears a black codpiece over his black armor. Similarly, Iron Man in the current film series does, in fact, have an iron codpiece that is a different color from the armor surrounding it (gold v. red). That's no less silly than superman's briefs worn over tights. Briefs over tights is, as the article points out, quite normal - not just for old-timey strongmen but for modern pro wrestlers and plenty of other stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with a superhero looking like he's wearing ballet tights, but some people prefer the strongman look rather than the Top Secret ballet dancer look.

As a founding member of the Red Shorts Society (membership: 1), I wholeheartedly endorse this article. I am a huge Superman fan, and hate the lack of shorts on the current day Jim Lee redesign. I collect Superman stuff, but I cringe at the stuff with the new designs... I haven't bought any yet. I don't even want to think about the movie... I want desperately to like it, but those vinyl, overtexturized suits make me think of dirty playground balls.

I guess that makes me old and out of touch, but Superman's costume is one of the most recognizable and iconic designs of the 20th century, and to change it, especially to something so poorly designed (Nehru collar?!), shows a general lack of respect for the history of comics. Revising Superman's costume is an exercise of the mainstream superhero comic industry's self-loathing, in my opinion.posted by MegoSteve at 11:10 AM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

But, thanks to this article, I now know the truth: their second premise was faulty. Without it, their case against me collapses. My original argument, after a lengthy convalescence in the Fortress of Solitude, returns triumphant.posted by Beardman at 11:11 AM on December 7, 2012 [23 favorites]

Revising Superman's costume is an exercise of the mainstream superhero comic industry's self-loathing, in my opinion.

This. Exactly this.

Or more accurately in the case of movie costumes, Hollywood's desire to make money from an existing franchise but still need to seem cooler-than-thou.

They should wear like racing leather outfits. Light and flexible but provides some protection. I've thought that for years and years.

The X-Men and Daredevil movie franchises thought pretty much the same thing - the results were practical uniforms that were also "teh sexah." Nerd-Approved, and better than the spandex the Avengers movie guys are into. (Come on, bomber jacket and helmet Cap is like a zillion time cooler than padded spandex Cap. It's just truth.)

It's a PITA to draw in all of the seams and ink in all of the shiny, so they're still wearing late Victorian wrestling tights and acrobat costumes in the comics.posted by Slap*Happy at 11:12 AM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

(Come on, bomber jacket and helmet Cap is like a zillion time cooler than padded spandex Cap. It's just truth.)

I had worn that exact same jacket to the theater to see that movie. That was a strange moment.posted by The Whelk at 11:15 AM on December 7, 2012

...especially to something so poorly designed (Nehru collar?!), shows a general lack of respect for the history of comics.

I always assumed that the briefs were there to conceal the fly on the tights. Just move the briefs aside, undo the fastener, and there you go, literally. Supe's new costume obviously has no fly, which means he has to strip down altogether whenever he has to take a leak, and that's just inefficient.posted by Faint of Butt at 11:22 AM on December 7, 2012 [11 favorites]

Oh man, that new movie costume. What the fuck. Why does he have a belt buckle? There is no belt, because his pants are not separate from his shirt. And plus, why, why are there hexagons all over the costume? To make it armor? Why? He's fucking Superman. He doesn't need armor. Bullets already bounce off of him. If the armor is to keep the suit from ripping up, then it's gotta be some crazy-ass expensive material it's made out of. Where did he get this? Ma Kent? Did he steal it? None of this makes any sense.

Superman is simple. He doesn't get to be gritty like Batman. His motives are simple. His costume reflects this, or should.

Well, let me tell you. Say you're Superman and you're about to go into battle against, for example, Doomsday. Doomsday decides he wants to grab onto part of you and slam you back and forth, over his head, into the pavement a few dozen times.

By being nude, Superman has provided Doomsday with a convenient thing to grab. His hands grasped firmly on Superman's junk, Doomsday is now able to swing Superman around to his bone-covered heart's content.

Put him in an armored dance belt, or Kryptonian jock strap, or even an admantium g-string, but Superman can fight without fear of somebody using his penis as a fulcrum if its covered up.posted by Joey Michaels at 11:30 AM on December 7, 2012 [30 favorites]

Why is it no big deal that every female superhero ever drawn looks as if she's about to burst through her clothing, but the chance that Superman's lack of underpants might draw added attention to the contours of his still-covered Superdick is somehow bad form?posted by R. Schlock at 11:30 AM on December 7, 2012 [7 favorites]

A dude could be wearing a skin-tight mattress, but if it's skin-tight, it's skin-tight.posted by infini at 11:31 AM on December 7, 2012

Why do you assume those things are mutually exclusive?posted by griphus at 11:31 AM on December 7, 2012

OK, I'm relatively old. Back in the day in P.E. if you wore sweatpants, you had to wear your gym shorts over them. It wasn't a fad or a style, it was a rule. Jock strap, sweatpants, shorts. That's what you wore, and the order you put them on. Oh, and those awesome reversible shirts with the school name and logo. I looked at Superman (and Batman etc.) as an extension of that.

Next redesign they'll over-compensate the other way and he'll just be wearing a bright red Cameo style codpiece.posted by Artw at 11:36 AM on December 7, 2012

Finally, an article relevant to my wardrobe!posted by blue_beetle at 11:38 AM on December 7, 2012

The red underpants were called "trunks" back in the day when cheerleaders or baton twirlers wore them under their skirts. They were for modesty and looked like granny underpants. Without his trunks, Superman looks less, not more, super. He needs to contain his junk in his trunks, for the love of Pete! Heh.posted by but no cigar at 11:38 AM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

Where did he get this?

S.T.A.R. Labs, probably, to test out for the Astronuats. Supes likes to do the good guy scientists a solid every now and again so OH MY GOD, THEY FORGOT AND USED USED PURPLE KRYPTONITE TO PAINT THE BELT BUCKLE! Now Jimmy Olsen has to use psychology to trick him into burning a bathrobe with his heat-vision, or he'll turn into a Ghost-Superman! (I would dearly love to see a Silver Age DC plot in a modern superhero movie.)posted by Slap*Happy at 11:39 AM on December 7, 2012 [11 favorites]

1. "Crotchal region" sounds like someone was trying specifically not to say "groinal area", which I believe is a MSTieism.
2. Faint of Butt has a good point about the fly obscuring thing. The more time it takes Superman to pee, the more pressure his muscles have to apply to eject the fluid in a timely manner, the faster the liquid comes out, the more damage inflicted upon the plumbing....posted by JHarris at 11:39 AM on December 7, 2012

Superheroes have been wearing the outside-underpants at least as long as old-time-y circus strongmen did, but with infinitely more market penetration.

I always assumed that Supeman wore the boldly-colored tights for the same reason that Batman had the bright bat logo on his chest - because it drew fire to the parts of his body that had thicker armor. Either that or he had a secret masochism fetish, and bullets striking his crotch was the closest Superman could come to the S&M experience.posted by wolfdreams01 at 11:58 AM on December 7, 2012

Why is it no big deal that every female superhero ever drawn looks as if she's about to burst through her clothing

It's not no big deal. It's a very big deal. We see MeFi posts about it all. the. time. We rage against it. And in the live-action films, the female superheroes' costumes are generally not as terrible as in the comics.posted by The World Famous at 12:05 PM on December 7, 2012 [9 favorites]

Supe's new costume obviously has no fly, which means he has to strip down altogether whenever he has to take a leak, and that's just inefficient.

I was with your argument. But then I realized he can move faster than a speeding bullet so undressing and re-dressing probably wouldn't

And again, not to be one note, but if the new Superman film wants to illustrate this point, I'd be okay with that.posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:11 PM on December 7, 2012

I imagine Superman's ability to hold it in when he needs to go pee is of similar strength and magnitude to that of his other physical abilities. Or he doesn't ever pee or poop, what with not being human and all.posted by The World Famous at 12:19 PM on December 7, 2012

Captain Marvel. Who has not only a kick ass (Ross) costume without trunks, but has an actual LIGHTNING BOLT aimed at his genitalia (if he dresses to the right).

In the same vein (npi) Madman, who's got a lightning bolt exclamation point.

Spiderman and Superboy, no trunks.

Funny, the Silver Surfer, sometimes has trunks and sometimes doesn't.

If it were at all realistically drawn skin tight wear it would look like a male ballet dancer and you could see everything (to quote Captain Picard).

I think it's mostly a holdover from the comics code crap and everyone is just used to Superman wearing trunks.

but the chance that Superman's lack of underpants might draw added attention to the contours of his still-covered Superdick is somehow bad form?

Question sort of answers itself really.

Not that some people might not want to think about it, but more that it is 'bad form.'
The female body is a work of art. The male body is utilitarian, it's for gettin' around, like a jeep (to quote Elaine Benes).

I'm always curious about the in-world explanations for the design though.
If his mom sewed them, that might explain the trunks, his mom doesn't want to think about him with his dork hanging out.

Design-wise it could help protect his secret identity, since no one else wears trunks over their pants.posted by Smedleyman at 12:26 PM on December 7, 2012 [1 favorite]

Is that where the Bat-symbol was going to go before the costume designers of the Clooney Batmans rejected this suit in favour of something with the homoeroticism dialed back a bit?posted by Sys Rq at 12:30 PM on December 7, 2012

griphus: Also, what's the current canon explanation for why his clothes generally don't rip off during fights? Are they still using that "invulnerability field" thing?

They all buy from Edna.

Dr. Banner, P. Parker, Super M. Jorelson, even Mr. Wayne - ever since he stopped ordering them from SuperClothes Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Stark Enterprises, after their relations with Wayne Industries went sour.

The Richards, Mr. Storm, and Mr. Grimm are outfitted by Fantastic Labs LLC, of course, as are the Inhumans. Little known fact: Mr. Plastic gets deals on Reed's seconds.

Green Lantern makes his own outfits as-needed, the ultimate in bespoke tailoring.posted by IAmBroom at 12:40 PM on December 7, 2012 [3 favorites]

I think the oval thing might actually just be a Kryptonian fly -- press it and the front of the codpiece flips open for easy access.

Not to be confused with Tijuana Bible silver age plot device, Kryptonian Fly, an aphrodisiac that lead to unspeakable things.

As for the real in-universe explanation for the briefs is because... hmmm, how to put this ... sometimes if you run/work out without proper support, you can be a bit sore in your testicular area. I imagine with balls of steel you would want as much extra support as possible. And briefs on the outside would be better than walking around with a Krytonian jock all the time, maybe.posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:40 PM on December 7, 2012 [4 favorites]

I always assumed the underpants were to cover up the trapdoor and y-front that would allow superman to use the loo without having to completely disrobe.posted by srboisvert at 12:42 PM on December 7, 2012

I imagine Superman's ability to hold it in when he needs to go pee is of similar strength and magnitude to that of his other physical abilities.

For a while (who knows what madness is in the NU52 books), Superman's "super breath" was said to be a result of his lungs ability to compress air to extreme pressures and then blow out that super-compressed air.

What this implies about Superman's weird respiratory anatomy (or alternately, DC editors' complete misunderstanding of how the diaphragm inflates the lungs and/or how a vacuum works) and the potentially similar properties of Superman's bladder are left as exercises for the reader.posted by straight at 12:51 PM on December 7, 2012 [1 favorite]

Crap, first comment in like 5 years, and can't even link properly anymore...posted by ubi at 12:54 PM on December 7, 2012

The red underpants were called "trunks" back in the day when cheerleaders or baton twirlers wore them under their skirts.

I always thought they were called 'spanky-pants'. As in, "Costume designers for the new Superman movie have decided to forgo his traditional red spanky-pants."posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:56 PM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

This entire thread has far too much tongue in the cheek.posted by infini at 1:02 PM on December 7, 2012 [1 favorite]

I really enjoyed reading this article this morning, glad it was posted here because this thread makes it even better!

Now to the matter at hand: I think the sensible answer is to put Superman in tight red capri pants, or knickers as we call 'em in cycling. So you have some support, you can get a waist on the costume (assuming you tuck the bib straps under the top), AND you can see the blue leggings again at the bottom!posted by Mister_A at 1:04 PM on December 7, 2012

But as any man who has worn any kind of tights can tell you, tights expose muscles, but they also expose the crotchal reason - the same sheerness that shows off the contours of biceps also shows off the contours of the penis.

That is the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of the article. I sometimes find myself in the company of spandex clad men, and I can guarantee that every time my mind is screaming DON'T LOOKAT HIS CROTCH DON'T LOOK AT HIS CROTCH DON'T LOOK AT HIS CROTCH DON'T LOOK AT HIS AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGHHH stupid sexy flandersposted by louche mustachio at 1:20 PM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

griphus: Let's all just count our lucky stars here that their collar decision was so subdued.

*mouse over link*
*see words "Nightwing" and "Crisis" in link*
*laugh hysterically without even having to click*posted by hanov3r at 2:04 PM on December 7, 2012

What's with the steely gray-blue background color of the outfit? I guess they need a Serious Color to show that this is a Serious Movie. And that oval buckle-thing is like a third eye that his crotch watches you with.

The female body is a work of art. The male body is utilitarian, it's for gettin' around, like a jeep (to quote Elaine Benes).

C'mon, this is 100% personal taste. Those set pictures MCMikeNamara linked above . . . yeah, art! Art is a good word.posted by ostro at 2:11 PM on December 7, 2012

Oh boy, here it comes...

Hey, is that a chunk of kryptonite in your pocket, or are you just excited to see me?posted by PipRuss at 2:15 PM on December 7, 2012

I imagine Superman's ability to hold it in when he needs to go pee is of similar strength and magnitude to that of his other physical abilities.

(Young child tugs at Superman's cape as the police mop up after he busts some robbers.)

This thread inspired me to look up more about how the dance belts worn by male ballet dancers work. I encountered this marvelous article; the delicate tone and level of detail therein must be experienced. I also feel I can now speculate more about the positioning of the Man of Steel's nuts than is at all reasonable.posted by mostlymartha at 2:33 PM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

The no-underwear model also makes me wonder how Superman is supposed to pee (Superman does pee, doesn't he?). With the underwear version there were a lot of different pieces and so there must be a fly somewhere, but with the new costume, its clear he has to take the whole thing off.

Unless that belt buckley-thing is a port of some sort.posted by rtimmel at 3:06 PM on December 7, 2012

Ooh dear. Those are very 90s looking.posted by Artw at 4:51 PM on December 7, 2012

The handcuffs, on the poster, should be green and slightly glowing.posted by honestcoyote at 5:29 PM on December 7, 2012

"I don't! I just get bigger. I'm 95% poop!"

Kevin transforms into Prime by projecting an organic 'liquid flesh' material from his torso. The liquid flesh then shapes itself into a tall man with exceptionally large and defined muscular development. Prime can revert back to his teenage form by destabilizing the outer body into a mess of protein goo, either consciously or when his Prime-body's energy reserves run out. When this happens, Kevin must pull himself out of the body's remains or risk suffocating from lack of oxygen.

I didn't realize they were supposed to be like old-timey strongman exercise trunks. Now they make sense. Now it bothers me even more when people refer to them as underpants. They're obviously not. I liked this article, but the article made me hate itself.posted by bleep at 6:40 PM on December 7, 2012

Mezentian: "I'm about as excited for the new Superman movie as I am the new Star Trek Into Darkness: not at all."

Yeah. I've been a major Trekkie my whole life, and I can't stand that JJ Abrahms reboot crap. It was like having your asshole big brother yank your action figures away from you, and then he makes Spock and Uhura hump and stuff and he laughs and laughs as you cry your sad little nerd tears.

The pantless suit does look weird and crotch-y. But what really bugs me is that the orange and teal color scheme they use in all the blockbuster movies now is being applied to Superman's suit, so the blues are sort of a bluish grey and the reds are sort of grey-burgundy and the yellows are grey with a hint of gold-ish. They did the same thing in the Bryan Singer movie, but it looks even worse here. In twenties years, today's movies are probably going to look really weird to people. ("Daddy, why is it always sunset in this movie?")posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:41 PM on December 7, 2012 [4 favorites]

Mezentian: "I'm about as excited for the new Superman movie as I am the new Star Trek Into Darkness: not at all."

The new Star Trek posters are grimdark as fuck. Neither Star Trek nor Superman should ever be grimdark.posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:39 PM on December 7, 2012 [1 favorite]

"the lack of underpants draws attention to the crotchal region"

The subject of Superman's Jewishness has been much discussed. Now the world can judge for themselves.posted by condour75 at 7:49 PM on December 7, 2012

The new Star Trek posters are grimdark as fuck.

Considering they stole the poster design from Batman Rises or whatever the hell that last Batman movie was called.... not surprising.

And, as mentioned upthread, the new Man of Steel poster is a curious fusion of grimdark and Photoshop 4 lense flare.

Also, the new STiD trailer has the Inception thrum. I was worried they wouldn't use it, but it's there.posted by Mezentian at 8:07 PM on December 7, 2012

I support making changes to Superman, but taking off his underwear makes it look like he's taken off his underwear.posted by BurnChao at 9:29 PM on December 7, 2012 [2 favorites]

Sadly, that trailer did not move the dial on my meh-meter.
Still too much Clark fishing.

And I am getting a really strong BSG vibe from both the colouring and the music.posted by Mezentian at 3:24 PM on December 11, 2012

God, the more they release of this movie (except for the costume), the more it just won't let me decide if I should love it or mock it. It just keeps walking that line where it may actually be good or may be really bad.

Guess I'll have to wait until it comes out, which, of course, goes against all my geeky instincts.posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:31 PM on December 11, 2012

It became well-known at a time when its intrinsic qualities did play a role in its popularity. But now, it's just Big Property #74. If your franchise can achieve critical mass, and you don't do anything to outright kill it, it'll last forever. This is why we'll probably be drowning in superhero movies until centuries after mankind has perished from the Earth, movies made by cyborgs for androids, who'll argue between process cycles about whether Batbot "would really do that."posted by JHarris at 11:48 AM on January 6, 2013 [1 favorite]

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