Clearer, more detailed leaks of Apple's next-generation MacBook and MacBook Pro cases have surfaced and reveal that Apple's once-preferred FireWire may be on the way out for its entry-level system.

Posted yet again on a Chinese site, the images match up exactly with earlier leaks and all but confirm the design aesthetic of Apple's next-generation portables.

On the MacBook Pro, this includes the new through-the-tray keyboard layout, a latch-free magnetic lid, and redesigned speaker grilles that help bring its design into line with the more modern MacBook and MacBook Air.

The new standard MacBook undergoes a less dramatic change but again makes its promised switch to aluminum.

Both new units, however, are now known to have had their number of ports reduced versus today's models. The 15-inch MacBook Pro is now believed to have lost full DVI and FireWire 400 as revealed by a source of AppleInsider's last month.

Instead, the high-end notebook now has a mini-DVI connector for video output and just one FireWire 800 connector -- a partial regression back to the original 15-inch MacBook Pro, which had a solitary FireWire 400 port before it received FireWire 800 several months later. A covered-up section at the front-left corner has yet to be explained.

The standard MacBook, however, may prove more worrisome for some prospective owners. The metal design only shows Ethernet, two USB ports, mini-DVI and audio as its expansion; FireWire 400 isn't visible anywhere in the available photos.

Removing the port gives Apple its first consumer-level portable without FireWire since the earliest versions of the first-generation iBook and represents a step back for Apple from the connection standard it helped create. A cursory look at the casing suggests space is the reason, though the new MacBook doesn't appear significantly smaller than its current plastic equivalent.

Technological change does favor Apple's move. While FireWire was originally added and maintained on Apple's more inexpensive portables to simplify connecting digital video cameras and eventually earlier iPod generations, more modern camcorders (including HD models), iPods and iPhones now depend chiefly on USB for a direct-to-computer file transfer.

Still, the new casing -- if reflective of what Apple introduces on Tuesday -- may spur a negative reaction from both video and audio professionals looking to use the smaller MacBook as a more portable editing platform than the larger and more expensive 15-inch pro unit.

I don't know if anyone has brought this up before but does anyone think Apple will incorporate Wireless USB? It seems a good way to make up for limited physical ports. And I believe the standard was pushed by Intel, so it seems a good way to make up to them if Apple went with nVidia chipsets. Apple was one of the first out of the gate and drove adoption for USB and 802.11b, so it seems fitting that they do the same for Wireless USB.

And the lack of Firewire is disconcerting especially after the recent promotion of Firewire 3200. If they are just cutting Firewire out, why do they even bother supporting Firewire 3200 development? I guess Firewire still sees military applications though.

I'm hoping that the tape on the port indicates that these are still an early design and some changes will be made compared to the final production model.

Still, the new casing -- if reflective of what Apple introduces on Tuesday -- may spur a negative reaction from both video and audio professionals looking to use the smaller MacBook as a more portable editing platform than the larger and more expensive 15-inch pro unit.

Precisely. Unless the 15" MacBook Pro is going to start at $1299, the cost of having a portable system for on the road editing just increased significantly since the 13" MacBook will no longer be an option. What makes this even more frustrating is that the Macbook will finally have dedicated graphics, which would have significantly improved Final Cut Studio performance.

I for one am worried about being unable to use the computers in target disk mode, it's so insanely useful it's not even funny. Unless Apple provides similar functionality via USB it's one thing I'm going to miss greatly.

What can you see of the icon labels on the MacBook ports if the image is blown up? Can we be sure what's being called a mini-DVI port on the MB and MBP isn't actually for a B-type USB receptacle, which would enable a USB-based target disk mode?

What can you see of the icon labels on the MacBook ports if the image is blown up? Can we be sure what's being called a mini-DVI port on the MB and MBP isn't actually for a B-type USB receptacle, which would enable a USB-based target disk mode?

Assuming it isn't a Mini-DVI (which it 100% is) then what would be the video output option on these notebooks?

... Still, the new casing -- if reflective of what Apple introduces on Tuesday -- may spur a negative reaction from both video and audio professionals looking to use the smaller MacBook as a more portable editing platform than the larger and more expensive 15-inch pro unit....

This is kinda like saying that the new MacBook might disappoint the small group of users that want to use it to slice bread with or are going to be disappointed that it won't come in brown.

The MacBook is an entry level laptop with the biggest rumour for it this year centring around the possibility that the price point might start below a thousand dollars. Anyone who thinks the designers should base some of their design choices around the tiny group that want to use it as a portable video editing platform are just stupid.

Sure it will edit video and sure you can use iMovie on it for your home movies, but it's never going to be a pro video editing tool and it's stupid to think that it is. I work in an all mac environment where huge amounts of movie making goes on and the majority of the cameras are USB nowadays or use DVD's to record onto. The majority of movie making is done on iMacs.

In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...

Assuming it isn't a Mini-DVI (which it 100% is) then what would be the video output option on these notebooks?

It's too small to be Mini-DVI, which is larger than a USB port (Google some pictures). It's also the wrong shape to be Micro-DVI (like the Macbook Air uses). It has the display symbol next to it, so it must be something new. Hopefully something that supports dual-link.

There's some question about FireWire's future just because Apple didn't provide both FW400 and FW800 ports? Ridiculous!!!

FW800 is fully backward compatible with FW400. And given that FireWire is a fully peer-to-peer system, there's no need for a 'hub' like you need with USB to be able to connect multiple devices. Pretty much all FireWire devices include a second (or third) FireWire port to allow the user to daisy-chain devices. It's pretty much only video cameras that don't have an additional FireWire port, and that's understandable given the usage model for video cameras.

With the superior performance of FW800, there's really no need for multiple ports on the computer. The one 800 megabit per second port can handle pretty much all your I/O needs. FW800 is overkill for a single disk drive. It is extreme overkill for a video camera. FW800 can comfortably handle the I/O bandwidth for multiple drives simultaneously. Just plug 'em in.

Keeping a FW400 port on the MacBook (Pro) was rather pointless. It takes up space and provides no value other than allowing users to keep using an older existing cable they might already have.

Personally, as a consumer grade customer, I don't mind FireWire being phased out from Macbooks. I haven't bought a FireWire peripheral in a couple years now because it became clear to me that Apple themselves consider having "lost" the battle to USB2 (and 3) in the consumer arena and are phasing away from it --- case in point, all the iPods shifting over completely to USB. I also don't mind the fact that I won't have to worry about having different cables for different peripherals.

However, as someone said, Target Disc Mode is very useful, and I can't see Apple removing FireWire and thereby removing the ridiculously easy to use migration tool that we've all come to rely on whenever we upgrade our machines. So I'm guessing they will be introducing target disc mode via USB with this new release, if indeed they're doing away with FireWire. If not, them I'd be bummed ;-p

There's some question about FireWire's future just because Apple didn't provide both FW400 and FW800 ports? Ridiculous!!!

FW800 is fully backward compatible with FW400. And given that FireWire is a fully peer-to-peer system, there's no need for a 'hub' like you need with USB to be able to connect multiple devices. Pretty much all FireWire devices include a second (or third) FireWire port to allow the user to daisy-chain devices. It's pretty much only video cameras that don't have an additional FireWire port, and that's understandable given the usage model for video cameras.

With the superior performance of FW800, there's really no need for multiple ports on the computer. The one 800 megabit per second port can handle pretty much all your I/O needs. FW800 is overkill for a single disk drive. It is extreme overkill for a video camera. FW800 can comfortably handle the I/O bandwidth for multiple drives simultaneously. Just plug 'em in.

Keeping a FW400 port on the MacBook (Pro) was rather pointless. It takes up space and provides no value other than allowing users to keep using an older existing cable they might already have.

I think you missed the part where there isn't Firewire of any kind on the 13" MacBook.

Seriously guys look closely at these cases and the only possibility for battery placement. It seems obvious that these machines are going to have one big ass battery. Either that or they are going to new technology with respect to energy storage.

I bring this up for a couple of reasons. One the spy shot that implies a full length battery. New tech for batteries being announced and made ready for a major computer and cell phone company. Finally Apples boost about new products not being touchable by the competition.

Since nothing has really cropped up to indicate that there is other tech going into the laptops to fill the innovation and sprint ahead role I'm thinking it has to be that big allocation of space for a battery that will separate these machines from the competition.

I want to mirror rawhead's comments. When I first saw the MacBook case photo earlier it looked like the FireWire port has disappeared. I am not really surprised to see it being phased out--switching iPods to all USB sounded the first gong of that death-knell a long time ago--but I do wonder about some of the utilities of the FireWire that may be lost in the consumer level laptop (that now have me rethinking whether I want to jump on getting a MacBook over a MBP.)

First, are using FireWire for both target disc and for migration. My understanding was that was the best (only?) way to migrate everything from one machine to a new one was FireWire. Related to that, you can't boot off a USB drive. In emergencies--such as one I had last week--I used my Firewire 3G iPod as an emergency boot up drive for my PowerBook. The option of booting from anything other than a DVD would presumably be lost with FireWire being phased out?

Second, what would this mean for the MacBook as a video machine, even at the consumer level. I have a mini DV camera that I hook up with FireWire. Am I SOL with a FireWireless MacBook if I want to use it to edit video off my mini DV video camera?

...the majority of the cameras are USB nowadays or use DVD's to record onto.

Sorry, but Mini DVDs are a godawful way to record video for editing (try to get some footage of quick motion with their MPEG2 transport streams), and when did you last see a USB capture profile in FCP? DV and HDV are still used heavily by indie film makers.

I for one am worried about being unable to use the computers in target disk mode, it's so insanely useful it's not even funny. Unless Apple provides similar functionality via USB it's one thing I'm going to miss greatly.

I was thinking that myself. Firewire target mode is extremely useful.

I also don't get the Mini-DVI references. As someone said, just googling for it shows that it's bigger than a usb port by quite a long way. The image shows a port smaller than USB:

It is the right shape but the size is just way off. Maybe they just shrunk it so we have to buy all new adaptors.

The lack of a firewire port still leaves the brick idea to be some wireless hub I guess. Time Machine works over wifi so I guess firewire boot over wifi will work too. You still don't get the speed benefit though. Firewire is about 30% faster than USB - I think this is due to bad USB drivers in OS X though.

It's not MagSafe. It doesn't make sense for it to be there, and besides, if you look at another pic on the sitehttp://www.macx.cn/a/a4000I695495.htm (2nd from top)
You'll see there's a MagSafe port where it should be; just next to the ethernet port.
I agree that the proportion of the taped port closely resembles that of an eSATA port.
e.g.: http://1toppc.com/Merchant2/images/N...V1S-A1/I-2.jpg
eSATA support is long over due so I welcome its addition, if true, although I won't be moving up to a MBP just for that. I want something smaller than a 15"!!!!!1!!!11

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't see what you are getting at. The 2nd pic you mention looks like a MagSafe adapter-sized port me. Now flip it to represent the top side and it still fits the image.

I do like the idea of the eSATA since it can be made backwards compatible to the FireWires and USBs with a a simple adaptor, but what is with the the circle hole next to it? I don't even have a far fetched idea to account for it.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Second, what would this mean for the MacBook as a video machine, even at the consumer level. I have a mini DV camera that I hook up with FireWire. Am I SOL with a FireWireless MacBook if I want to use it to edit video off my mini DV video camera?

Again, I would be fine with the abolishment of FW from Macbooks so long as they deal with the target disc mode / migration issue. Booting off of USB drives is NOT a problem any more.

Regarding video; well, it's the sign of the times, I suppose. I just put out an ad in Craigslist for my 5 year old Victor DV cam. While I won't be getting a dedicated video camera for a little while (if ever, the way things are looking on the DSLR front), most consumers will now go for, as they should, any number of the AVCHD video cams that use SDs and other flash media.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't see what you are getting at. The 2nd pic you mention looks like a MagSafe adapter-sized port me. Now flip it to represent the top side and it still fits the image.

The taped port is to the left of the palm rest (looking from above), right? So in the picture, the taped port is at the bottom right, because we're looking at the other side:

If you look at the very top right of that pic, you will see the MagSafe port, right next to the ethernet port, exactly where it should be; at the top left corner when you're looking at the keyboard from above. Am I missing something?

Unless you just miss-read the "covered-up section at the front-left corner" in the article as meaning that MagSafe port we're both talking about ;-)

EVEN FIREWIRE 400 is much faster, efficient and trouble-free than USB 2.

Is Apple fool? NO FIREWIRE, NO PURCHASE!!!

I think if Apple included sSATA insteead of USB and FW400/800 they could allow for much fastervdata access and backwards compatibility. The only downside would backing to use a small dongle until the rest of the industry caught up, but eSATA seems to be the future-forward industry move.

I would love to use eSATA ports on my external 1TB drives if Apple offered it. Adding a few simple dongles for the time being would not be anti-Apple in any way and help push a faster, better standard, as they've done in the past.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

The MacBook is an entry level laptop with the biggest rumour for it this year centring around the possibility that the price point might start below a thousand dollars. Anyone who thinks the designers should base some of their design choices around the tiny group that want to use it as a portable video editing platform are just stupid.

It is an artificial distinction. The "consumer" model is only slightly slower, and a dedicated graphics chip is only necessary for Motion. Except for Motion, FCS 2 works on IGP-based Macs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galley

I can understand going only with a FW800 port (and possibly including a FW400 adapter)on the MBP, but why on earth would they drop FireWire completely from the MacBook?

Maybe it's just a sign of the times. Even assuming, FW400 wasn't just replaced by 800, then maybe it really isn't necessarily as bad as it seems. In part because of Apple's mishandling of it, Firewire never really took off and its remaining niche is dwindling, not increasing. Firewire devices are usually better, but it can't compete with USB on cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck

I for one am worried about being unable to use the computers in target disk mode, it's so insanely useful it's not even funny. Unless Apple provides similar functionality via USB it's one thing I'm going to miss greatly.

Migration Assistant for Air uses the network to do its equivalent of "Target Mode" transfers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayInSF

With the superior performance of FW800, there's really no need for multiple ports on the computer. The one 800 megabit per second port can handle pretty much all your I/O needs. FW800 is overkill for a single disk drive. It is extreme overkill for a video camera. FW800 can comfortably handle the I/O bandwidth for multiple drives simultaneously. Just plug 'em in.

Not quite true. The theoretical bandwidth is there, but the people that I know that do a lot of video say that running your capture device and target storage on the same bus occasionally results in dropped frames. The standard practice is to try to keep them on separate busses whenever possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBridges

Related to that, you can't boot off a USB drive. In emergencies--such as one I had last week--I used my Firewire 3G iPod as an emergency boot up drive for my PowerBook.

This changed with the Intel systems, they now offer a way to boot from USB.

Quote:

Second, what would this mean for the MacBook as a video machine, even at the consumer level. I have a mini DV camera that I hook up with FireWire. Am I SOL with a FireWireless MacBook if I want to use it to edit video off my mini DV video camera?

Maybe. I do have a USB hub that has Firewire ports though, that might work, even if it's an odd beast. I've never really tried it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariusperkins

Sorry, but Mini DVDs are a godawful way to record video for editing (try to get some footage of quick motion with their MPEG2 transport streams), and when did you last see a USB capture profile in FCP? DV and HDV are still used heavily by indie film makers.

The reason why you don't see "USB Capture Profile" is because it is not called that, trust me, that feature is there. That function falls under "Log and Transfer". USB is a decent means of media transfer for this, I've used this for capturing AVCHD over USB from an SD card.

Some AVCHD camcorders save to DVDs, and that too is supported by FCP. The only problem is that the promise of solid state being a faster than real time transfer doesn't stack up with AVCHD, because Apple's software takes just about as long to convert it to a codec they can edit.

I would love to use eSATA ports on my external 1TB drives if Apple offered it. Adding a few simple dongles for the time being would not be anti-Apple in any way and help push a faster, better standard, as they've done in the past.[/IMG]

It's still annoying since I don't think eSATA supports power. In that respect Firewire is more convenient, especially for portable hard drives rather than just external storage, since everything can be bus-powered requiring only a single cable.

If they are putting Blu Ray Drives then it make sense. Apple Cinema Displays can then be connected by HDMI, without requiring a mini DVI 2.0 connector (or whatever that thing is next to the USB ports).

Those pics look like a current MBP and a current MBA. WHile the most recent MBP did get the multi-touch gesture support, the trackpad HW did not change. I suspect that the new MBPs (and MBs) will al least get the larger MBA trackpad with multi-touch gesture support.... if they don't get a full multi-ouch trackpad with visual output display oppion.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Seriously guys look closely at these cases and the only possibility for battery placement. It seems obvious that these machines are going to have one big ass battery. Either that or they are going to new technology with respect to energy storage.

I bring this up for a couple of reasons. One the spy shot that implies a full length battery. New tech for batteries being announced and made ready for a major computer and cell phone company. Finally Apples boost about new products not being touchable by the competition.

Since nothing has really cropped up to indicate that there is other tech going into the laptops to fill the innovation and sprint ahead role I'm thinking it has to be that big allocation of space for a battery that will separate these machines from the competition.

Silver - Zinc anyone?

Dave

In reference to the battery and competition... HP has a laptop with a 24hr runtime. Dell is at 18hrs. And there both priced below the MBP. But yea I think we'll see 70+ Whr batterys in the pro's easily. Maybe, JUST MAYBE dual HD's in the 17".

What can you see of the icon labels on the MacBook ports if the image is blown up? Can we be sure what's being called a mini-DVI port on the MB and MBP isn't actually for a B-type USB receptacle, which would enable a USB-based target disk mode?

The picture of the MacBook, the picture clearly shows a small monitor indicating the mini-DVI and it also clearly indicates the usb symbol for the regular usb ports.

On the picture of the MBP, it also shows the DVI icon next to the cutout.

The only thing is the cutout for the mini-dvi on the MB looks misshaped.

Anyway guys, the very fact that we are only seeing casings is an indication that this is not a completely final version. If we can all sit tight for two days we'll have something real to look at.

If they are putting Blu Ray Drives then it make sense. Apple Cinema Displays can then be connected by HDMI, without requiring a mini DVI 2.0 connector (or whatever that thing is next to the USB ports).

Yep and with a USB A-A cable you can boot from target disk on any INTEL mac (PPC never supported USB Target disc). It's in the OS X certification courses too.