.Ghost and Vrbas feel that it's morally wrong, but they haven't justified that belief (at least to me). I can't stand it when a person holds an unjustified belief that limits me from doing what I should be free to do.

The only reason people think it's wrong is exactly what you're talking about: society bringing kids up to think it's wrong. That's bullshit.

I never said selfishness is good. I said that there's nothing wrong with premarital sex. And if you want to revisit the selfish argument, tell me, is it wrong for you to breathe? You do it for selfish reasons.

Killing is wrong because the person being killed has the right to live, and that right is being violated. Premarital sex violates nobody's rights.

But tell me. Since you said that society FUCKS us up becuase it gives us morals. WHERE did society learn these morals? Man could not make up the morals. Therfor God comes in? Does that make sense at all?

Who said people have a right to live man>? You? Society? Who?

God did.

Why and how would society out of nowhere come up with giving people rights?

It doesn't matter that I don't have sex to live. You breathe, and therefore go on living, for your own selfish reasons.

Please point out to me where I said society fuсks us up by giving us morals. People like you fuсk up your kids and give them the gift of "shame" when it comes to sex. Do you really think everybody was completely immoral all the time before the advent of religion?

Mankind can agree that we have the right to live. We don't need God. Can you prove that it was God who said we have the right to live? Society would give people rights because society is here to protect us. It's like I said before, you don't know what you're talking about, so you shouldn't open your mouth. Go back to your blissful ignorance and stay there.

It is really upsetting to read your posts. Any instance in which laws have been recorded is proof that man can come up with it's own rights. Ever heard of the Code of Hammurabi? The Magna Carta? Men can agree on rights without God. I could even argue that the Bible is an example of this. The laws in the Bible were written by man. Sure, Christians would argue that they were divinely inspired, but that's not proven. Until you prove that Christianity or Islam or whatever religion you follow is right, all you have to go on is that man came up with its laws.

Please, stop arguing this. You don't know what you're talking about.

Edit: Tell you what, check out my thread "Morals in the Absence of Religion." That will tell you where we can get morals from.