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FEATURE REQUEST: Firewire (DishWire)

since dish people are reading this, thats great,
Firewire,Firewire,Firewire
can you please turn on firewire, i have a dvhs vcr that i want to record hd to.
once i find this working good than the 921 is getting installed.
thank you

I would really like to see the 921 Dishwire support digital television sets that have Firewire inputs, not just D-VHS recorders.

HDTVs with Firewire or i.Link input are not "rare" as was claimed on one of the DISH Tech Chats . There are over fifty different Firewire models made by Sony, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, etc. They are all listed here:

It seems likely that there are far more homes with Firewire HDTVs right now than homes with D-VHS recorders.

Yes, DVI or HDMI will be the new HDTV connector standard, but many of us early adopters who will be buying the DVR-921 already spent a lot of on 2-year-old HDTVs, and they have Firewire and component input, not DVI.

Component video looks great, but it means I need to hook up five connectors (three for analog component video, two for analog stereo audio) from the 921 to my Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV instead of just a single thin Firewire cable that does it all. Image and audio quality is supposed to be superior with Firewire since it's a pure digital stream all the way into the TV set.

Please, please support Firewire TVs with Dishwire , not just D-VHS recorders.

With only one HD OTA tuner (and given the 921's current limitations on the guide listings for OTA), Dishwire is the major reason some of us won't defect to HD DirecTiVo or cable HD DVRs. Please turn it on ASAP!

I really, really hope Dishwire will support output to display devices. I purchased a Mitsubishi WS-55511 over a year ago after reading in several places that the 921 would have both DVI and IEEE-1394 outputs (no mention of "Dishwire" back then). Even then I was planning on the 921 being a centerpiece of my home theater setup -- a couple of things I didn't realize were that the wait would be so long on the 921, and that DVI would end up taking the lead for copy-protected outputs.

Knowing that the 921 would have Firewire outs was one of the main reasons I felt comfortable buying my TV, vs a DVI-only set. The TV is fully HAVI-compliant but unfortunately is not upgradeable to DVI.

So if Dishwire doesn't support output to display devices as I've read in some other posts, needless to say I will not be a happy camper. I am sure there are other "planners" out there like me who are in the same boat. If it doesn't, I may end up spending a bit more $$ and going the HTPC route instead.

Does anyone has any official word on whether or not when activated the Dishwire outs will support sending video to my Mits or other display devices with Firewire?? Any info is much appreciated, as I would hate to buy the 921 and find out several months later when Dishwire is activated that it won't.

I am in the same boat as gonzo. As a longtime subscriber to Dish, I purchased a Sony 34XBR2 in 2Q03, partly based on published reports that the forthcoming 921 would support the Sony's Firewire input. It would be hard to commit to the 921 system upgrade if there was the risk of being down-rezzed due to the lack of DVI. When the Dishwire is activated, please support this model, Sony 34XBR2. An indication of such intentions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

This is rumor that I'm posting here, but I've heard from some inside sources that one of the dishwire ports may be used for monitor support, and the other used for DVHS support. That's just a rumor though - don't take it for fact, as I don't have confirmation.

Mark,
I thought that quoting the VP of engineering as to E*'s support of HAVi/1394 was a fair post and I am dissapointed to see that you saw fit to delete it. It directly addressed the issue being discussed here. It's not a bitch, just inquiring as to whether there is a change in policy.
comet48

comet, I agree that your post and the subsequent posts about it are absolutely fair game for discussion. But not in this forum - those are the rules. That's why those posts were split off into their own thread in the Dish PVR forum, here: http://www.dbstalk.c...ead.php?t=21671

What everyone needs to understand here is that Dishwire™ on the 921 is not a conventional implementation of IEEE1394 output with OSD in the 921. It is a triggered event output port for dumping the hard drive's program content to a DVHS recorder. IT pulls it's data from upstream in the circuit design. (Hardware)

In order to facilitate the use of IEEE1394 for monitoring the 921's output, a 1394 port would have to be added to the output section of the 921 along with the DVI and analog outputs. This is a different hardware design than currently exists on the 921 board. No software request will effect a change to your 921 hardware.

In the original 211, it's 1394 was specifically designed in hardware to be an AV/C output with full 1394 protocol. It worked with 1394 monitors seamlessly. One may have also been able to record from it but the recording may have contained all OSD as well. It would not have been a clean program recording void of extra stuff in the current receivers. It's academic because the 211 was discontinued.

IF and that is a big IF, the 1394 monitor becomes a standard HDTV output protocol then we may have a chance for a future product, ie second generation 921 design to accommodate it. Currently the trend is in the direction of HDMI, not 1394. It is my understanding that all current 1394 Monitors made also have analog HDTV connections. So, your only concern should be if Dish someday decides to downrez the analog connection to that of DVD quality. Personally, I worry more about the continued compression softness of HDTV and the HDTV camera filter factor than I would the down rez possibility but then I have a nasty habit of avoiding conspiracy theories and rely on current practice and trends to predict future events probability. I don't see down rez or dumbing down of HDTV as a future concern, at least not at the STB receiver end of the chain.

I feel bad that so many bought into a technology that didn't catch on but we've all been there too. I know I have.

Mark, I feel this needed stated as many do not understand the difference between the current Dishwire hard drive dump function, its port, and what they are requesting as far as hardware design suggestion for a full OSD output 1394. If you feel this post is out of place, I respect your decision to edit it or remove it. Thanks.

This is rumor that I'm posting here, but I've heard from some inside sources that one of the dishwire ports may be used for monitor support, and the other used for DVHS support. That's just a rumor though - don't take it for fact, as I don't have confirmation.

Mark:

Any guess as to how long the 1394 implementation will take? Is there any chance it will be implemented by say March 1st when the D*TiVo presumably will hit the market?

I am one of those with the Mitsubishi technology, and although I am disappointed that there isn't display 1394 on the 921, I'm also disappointed that Mitsubishi isn't offering a DVI upgrade path. I have no expectations of the 921 to accomodate, however, and won't plan to use it for anything other than analog component output on my set.

Don,
Thanks much for the additional technical info. I had a couple of questions, and some comments:

- where did you learn this? (i haven't had a chance to pore through all of the other boards so excuse me if this is answered elsewhere)

- what's your level of certainty about this? you sound authoritative, but i want to be sure as my decision to go with the current 921 will likely hinge on this fact.

I am with you that there is always a risk buying into a technology doesn't catch on. In this case I personally was never betting on one technology vs the other, but rather going directly off of repeated statements made last year by E* that the 921's version of Firewire would support output to display devices. I presume there are others that did this as well. Perhaps it was naive of us to believe them, but after many thousands of $$'s spent as a result I think we've at least earned the right to not be happy about it

You may be right about DVI/HDMI becoming the ultimate standard, but with the cable box Firewire mandate it appears that the jury's still out...it almost looks more likely that both will end up coexisting for some time, and future STB's will need to support both.

I really hope you are right about the downrez'ing issue, but there again I think the jury is still out. This issue is of course the only reason many of us are presently spending time worrying about what Dishwire will or will not do All HD sets I have seen have analog HD connections, as does mine, and I can certainly use it for now. I have never been one for conspiracy theories either, however IMHO it seems more risky to buy a set today that doesn't have some type of copy protected digital input, because there is certainly still a chance that you will get downrez'd in the future.

Regarding the other post about Mits not supporting a DVI upgrade, this has always been the case...the "promise module" was never intended for this purpose. This was something I was able to verify easily last year by calling Mits, prior to purchasing my set.

My information in the post came from the developers (Eldon) and from one engineer working for ETC.

" ...rather going directly off of repeated statements made last year by E* that the 921's version of Firewire would support output to display devices. "

While I know this was stated often as points of discussion especially on AVS, I went to the source and E* reps categorically denied they ever claimed the dishwire, then called just "Firewire", would ever support display devices on the 921. They repeated it would only support selected DVHS VCR's for clean recording from the hard drive's program files. Only in the case of the 211 was that true. Many Mitsubishi and Sony display owners wanted to believe in a pipe dream, unfortunately.

BTW- the reason why the Dishwire™ name switch has to do with copyrights and trademark issues and nothing technical. We public call everything "Firewire" but while it has become an icon by the public, it is still a protected trademark owned by Apple.

"- what's your level of certainty about this?"

That's easy! I am very certain as to what I was told by the developers, in a face to face discussion! Not e-mail and not over the phone. I'm not special, anyone can go to CES and have a really great technical exchange with the people from Dish Network, ETC and Eldon if they will be here this year. Last year there were about 6-8 reps at CES explaining stuff about the 921Considering the date of my info, it is quite possible that they redesigned the system to accommodate 1394 display devices but don't you think they would have added it to the specs by now? No, I think you all need to bank on using the analog 921 outputs with your 1394 monitors. Two years ago I spoke face to face with the 921 project director for the 921. She, said that the 1394 port would support all three of the DVHS VCR's but as things change, it's JVC that has finally evolved this past year as being the only design that will be initially supported. This was a disappoint to me too because I owned Mits VCR and not JVC. But I respect the information I received that they were having problems working with the MIts system and therefore would not, initially support it. So, when we finally do get it, the original claim that the 921 would support the 3 VCR's (panasonic, Mits and JVC) has been reduced to just JVC. ( Note- there is also a Marantz DVHS today but it is using a JVC chassis so it should work as well but that is my opinion as I have no confirmation from E* that the Marrantz is in the testing and support list)