Wouldn't newspaper industry analysts have had the same grumbles if the Gannetts and Knight Ridders of the world had poured a huge chunk of their profits into online ventures a decade ago at a time when their ad revenues were still enjoying healthy growth? And wouldn't they now say such a move, if well done, would have been brilliant?

If the biggest long-term threat to Windows and Office is free rivals and Web-based services, shouldn't Microsoft be using a significant fraction of its profits to develop its online advertising capacity?

Obviously, Microsoft needs to execute better on the Web. Pouring money into online ventures is only good if it produces returns. To date, Microsoft has not seen the kind of gains it will need to have to make it pay off. Some newspaper companies did, for example, build online job sites and auto sites and just weren't able to grab enough money to replace the ad dollars being lost. It's not enough to see the threat and try. To prove the grumblers wrong, Microsoft will have to do more than throw money online. It will have to win.

Discuss this Article 64

MS has some very intelligent and very capable folks at its head, but the fact remains that it's done a very poor job at forecasting marketplaces, and getting to opportunities before its competitors do.

MS FTW
I am looking at the Live Desktop at the moment, and I believe I am looking at the future of MS.
Right now, there are only half a dozen document folders but......lets consider the potential modules for Live Desktop
1) Office Live w/ Document Sync to all supported Devices
2) Live Messanger
3) Live Photo Gallery
4) Live Mail OR hosted exchange
5) Live Writer
6) Xbox Live
7) LiveMobile
Basically, a one stop shop for most of the applications you will ever need. With third party support, I would imagine that the sky is the limit and your data will be seemlessly replicated.
Additionally, with Mesh Groups, you will be easily able to share data with others..and I think the coolest thing will be the development of Live Broadcast, where friends and permitted groups can poke into your world, voice and video chat and collaborate on things in real time...all though a web-based virtual desktop.
Pretty cool if you ask me.

@j4m3s0n79
Absolutely. Live Mesh has the potential to change the way we think of both software and communication. It will be fascinating to see what the developer platform looks like when it's announced at the PDC.
Paul, btw, was one of the few industry pundits who got what Live Mesh was about when it was announced. Most of the others didn't understand that it was a platform and thought the file sync and remote desktop were the product rather than understanding they were samples apps.

@Ocean
I listed factual items that demonstrated how your opinion was incorrect.
If you feel there is bias anytime someone presents facts that disagree with your opinions, perhaps you misunderstand the word.

As for the "Mesh stuff is pure Ozzie", do you think that Microsoft products come from people other than Microsoft employees like Ray Ozzie?
Or, perhaps, you only count employees who have never worked anywhere else?
Odd criteria either way.
Oh, and it was developed inside Microsoft by Ray Ozzie's team (and some related teams). Sorry to disappoint your bizarre conspiracy theory with actual facts.
FYI: I know some of the people who worked on it and they'd have gotten a lot more sleep for the last few years if your ridiculous statements were true.

@ Ocean:
"Conceived outside of MS and then b[r]ought into MS."
What a ridiculous slam? Do you think Google, Apple and ilk are not acquiring technology companies and assimilating acquired technology into their product line?
Or do you think those companies are making babies and raising them to go on and invent all this cool new technology?
Learn to appreciate good and merit wherever it is.

The cloud is the future, wit out a doubt. The questions are a few....
1. When? Lots of people, Joe User, dont get it. A good majority of the ones that do get it, have a fear of "do I trust my stuff up in the cloud, files etc.". This is a HUGE change for people, and people dont like change, for the most part.
2. How much how fast? Each vendor MS, Google, Apple, Amazon, and lots of start-ups are trying find the right formula, files only, backup, music, email, contacts, calendar etc. Some just do a few things some try multiple.
3. Its going to have to really have some standards, and be open to be a hit. People at this point are not going to be down with MS trying to move their lock-in monopoly they have now with Windows, IE, Office to the web. Solutions should use, Jabber, ical (not apple ical, but ical) IMAP, common file types that work across the board.
Its going to be a long journey but some day, 10 years from now people will say "remember when all your data was trapped on your computer at home?" like they say "remember when there were no cell phones".
MS has to bank on this, but they need to do it right. In the past they could screw it up (internet is not important) and make a comeback. Not now, screw it up in a big way and even a GIANT like MS will be left behind.

@Snakedoctor1
Your biased assumptions are showing.
Live Mesh is standards based. And since data lives both in the cloud and on the user's computers there isn't the "what do I do if the server fails or my access is down or the company fails"
I'd suggest doing some reading on what's out about it now. (And get ready for what comes in October at the PDC)

>>Its going to have to really have some standards, and be open to be a hit. People at this point are not going to be down with MS trying to move their lock-in monopoly they have now with Windows, IE, Office to the web.<<
Bingo.
(Queue the outraged 'winCabal' claiming that MS is really, truly open.)

@Raaj "Or do you think those companies are making babies and raising them to go on and invent all this cool new technology?"
That's hilarious! I've actually used that argument before. It's like they think Steve Jobs made some clones of himself to come up with new products.... no, no, they won't hire outside of the clone army (ever notice that all the people at Apple stores wear that same black shirt that Jobs wears?).
I suppose they think that MS should hire people with no talent, no qualifications and no history of doing a good job just so everything that comes out of Redmond was a "first time" product.

Mike anger management classes are in your future. Pickup a copy of "who moved my cheese". Man brother you got to have the last word.
You pick out one small part of my post and rip into me. My post was not only about MS, it was about the cloud, people accepting it in general, many companies trying different approaches to it, and how it must be open.
Mesh is cool I have used it, from my Mac and PC, but honestly its a file syncing app right now, that works great for home users or users that are not blocked 8 hours a day 5 days a week by a corporate firewall. Its nothing more at this point.
Live in general is a mess right now, all kinds of offerings all over the place that have changed over the years. From Joe users perspective its confusing compared to day Google. MS needs to clean it up, simplify it big time. Perfect example you go to hotmail.com right now and you see...
"Have an MSN Hotmail, MSN Messenger, or Passport account? It's your Windows Live ID.
Windows Live ID
Works with MSN, Office Live, and Microsoft Passport sites"
(not to mention you need IE for some of those offerings to get the "full experience")
Too much for Joe User. Now go to Google.....simple single login for everything they offer.
There is no BIAS, whom ever does it right (usability, price, features) wins. That very well could be MS. Honestly I dont care whom it is. Paul is right their focus has to be on this.

Been using the Live calender beta lately and I'm sold. Stopped using Google calender completely. The live mesh is very good as well, they need a good mobile platform to complete the picture. Windows Mobile 6.1 is an improvement but still rather pathetic compared to the iPhone or Nokia's mobile OS.
When if ever Enterprise will totally embrace cloud computing remains to be seen. I'm skeptical though, security being one reason the need for constant connectivity being another.

Ocean, I think you are a total troll that loves to instagate s**t here but that link was exactly what I was talking about when I said it had to use open standards.
If they tried to do mesh with .net only then it would force developers to use windows boxes to develop for mesh and lockout many devices like phones, that will never run a .net app.

Snake: I agree with everything you said...
One small thing is inaccurate: Google has multiple logins (which makes things confusing): you can have a Gmail account or a Google account, and, also a YouTube account on the side...
But everything else is spot on, don't think I'm criticizing...

Ocean:
You mention that Office and Windows are both profitable, but the Serve products division is VERY profitable as well (Windows Server, SQL Server, Virtualization Server, Small Business Server, etc.)... and all these products are relatively new... so yeah, Microsoft can make new profitable products...

gglocher good point about Youtube I forget Google owns it, since its not been googled over on its site, plus I dont have an account there.
My Gmail account is the only account I have with Google, but that ID has allowed me access to email, calendar, contact, google docs, gtalk, and their new sharepoint like app google sites.
Prior to my wife moving to Me on her PC I used my gmail account for that windows outlook sync app on her PC, to sync her outlook calendar with my google calendar, then I pulled it into iCal on my Mac via a ical subscription.

One more thing that's wrong, despite the names not being totally migrated over, Passport and LiveID accounts are the same thing.
It IS confusing and should have been fixed quickly as should the whole split between MSN and Live properties but the fact is that for all the Microsoft properties that care about User Authentication, LiveID/Passport is the single account mechanism that's needed.

@Ocean
So now you're declaring yourself an outraged part of the WinCabal?
Ocean post: (Queue the outraged 'winCabal' claiming that MS is really, truly open.)
Ocean post: It is open: blogs.zdnet.com/carroll

Mike I went to your link, on my Windows PC no less, using FF3, and I got a big fat silverlight box in the middle of the screen. I clicked the X in the upper right corner of the box and I got a white page. Standards....the MS way:)
I have avoided Silverlight so far just because I think flash is good enough and MS is always trying to push their version of something on me.

@Raaj "Or do you think those companies are making babies and raising them to go on and invent all this cool new technology?"
LMAO. I'm sure that never occurred to him. Who knows maybe Ocean thinks Jobs has an iBirthing chamber where his perfect super brilliant 'original' 'remarkable' 'revolutionary' Apple employees are 'sprouted'.

Actually, Weedmonk, there are very few original ideas anymore...its all about the execution.
@Mikegalos --> When I'm wrong, I admit it.
As for those calling me a troll -->I don't understand the anger. Read the posts and respond if you find it interesting and ignore it if you don't.
For the record, I don't use and have never owned a Mac. Neither do I have a Wii. It's always been Windows (I need specialized tools for my job) for me...and I don't do gaming. As I've stated, I have lots of respect for MS and for their employees.
That doesn't preclude me from recognizing the good work done by their competitors.
Seen the search marketshare for Google? The Wii sales numbers? The rise of the iTMS...and the iPod...and the iPhone?
On the flip side, Windows is ubiquitous. There's very little software for the Mac or Linux that doesn't have something similar on Windows, but it doesn't work the other way around. I love my Windows mobile device. I have MS mice.
Two sides to every coin.

I have posted this before, so if you're tired of reading it, then telll me to stop [and i might]. Your medical data has been accessable through the cloud for years, on a Mac or Windows PC, but the software is MS and Windows apps. We docs can view your labs, images/xray studies [please note that note all medical imaging use xrays, such as MRI, ultrasound , PET/nuclear medicine], billing and personal data, medication list, and many parts of the chart such as consults, History and Physical, Operation or Procedure notes. When you logon,even on a Mac with Safari, 'Widows Server' pops up to connect you. MS is working on a way to make the info available to to patient and there are numerous apps available as well as on the horizon for a fully digital medical record. What's the big deal? Considerably less medical errors. Software to check accuracy of medication and allergy history comparison will reduce 50% of all medical errors. Kudos to MS for providing teams to work on this stuff. My imaging centers will give you film or a CD with your images and reports. as many hospitals do now also. The Electronic Medical Record is here, but needs some serious tweaks, such as the physician computer order entry. Instead of sloppy writing and no history, the doctor chooses medications from a list as well as dose and dispensing info. Now, the doctor will be forced to either choose a history, or type in a brief history [as per many state laws] as opposed to blowing it off and letting me guess what I'm looking for on your studies, or wasting time calling them or very busy nurses. This is the committee that I am on in our 3 hospital system.
I seem to get less respect, or at least they think that I am less knowledgeable because I look like a jock. But I surprise them with thoughts and solutions and comments, a few that I got here.

Ocean,
Mike is clearly a cheerleader for Microsoft and probably makes his living off their stuff. That's fine. He's most certainly blinded by bias since he makes blanket condemnations of Apple and blanket praise and defense and apology for his team. This is what happens to the discourse as Paul becomes more strident and partisan. So do his forum community. It is the supersite for windows. Also, this post has nothing to do with Apple, so why not take the high road and let them have their fun?
Microsoft makes a mint off of Office for Mac. Hopefully they intend to do the same with Mesh and not revert to the "moat" strategy they've used in the past. I'm willing to take Ozzie at his word for now. Things can change. Just look at Apple.

@ Johnpapola:
"Ocean,
Mike is clearly a cheerleader for Microsoft and probably makes his living off their stuff. That's fine. He's most certainly blinded by bias since he makes blanket condemnations of Apple and blanket praise and defense and apology for his team. ..."
You could have chosen a better ally in your rage against the [Windows] machine than the most irreverant and blatant troll on this site.
In regards to your accusation quoted above, you yourself have mentioned that your business unit makes extensive of Macs for design and that you use Macs to be more productive. Isn't that the same basis for bias towards Mac as you accuse Mike of being biased because he earns his living from MS products?
Selective application of standards. You continue to get emotional and accuse people giving technical arguments for MS products to be partisan hacks and "echo chamber."
A Chill pill fits the bill.

Hey, while you were all fighting, I updated to Vista SP1! And my VPN and other stuff still works! It seemed a tad slower at first, and initial connections did not work, but then it all was back at the same speed. It seems I turned OFF auto update to prevent what happened with IE7. Although there is a warning right before IE7 installs on XP, I am quite certain that my two 6 yr old and 7 yr old [at that time, now they are 7,7 and 8[ just clicked OK as they have been doing for sometime...on all 3 PC's!. So thanks all for the help.

One thing seems a bit faster. It's viewing medical images from the hospital's PACS system, which is the main purpose of Vista for me. Also, the Active X app was problematic without the update from GE [their Centricity PACS].Before SP1 I had at least one error asking to install it [which does not happen at our office where GE Centricity patches were up to date]. Now, after SP 1, I don't even get a single error. Before playing with the settings, prior to SP1, we would get a continuous loop of installing attempts of the Active X control , only at the hospital's non-updated software. Perhaps this was fixed by SP1? I will encourage the other docs to update. Everyone turns off Auto update as EI 7 was not compatible, but got installed with Autoupdate. We probably all missed the popup asking if we wanted to install it, after it was automatically DL'ed. This is 'good stuff' for us.
Thanks,
Doc
BTW WAM is my initials. I'm Italian, not asian:) [But my best friend is asian]

@DrWAM (How's that?)
(Wam could have been short for almost anything, too, or a nickname)
SP1 probably didn't do the fix on its own as much as one of the fixes installed in it was one you needed to fix a bug. SP1 by itself really wasn't that much but included all the rolled up updates from the year including a lot of driver updates. If you have Windows Update (or Microsoft Update) turned off, you probably missed some that were not only important from a security point of view but that also improved performance.
I found it made several of my systems measurably faster but that was due to some improved drivers so, as they say, your mileage may vary.
I would definately not have a blind policy of having auto update turned off. It's fine to not auto-install but if so, somebody should be doing testing of the monthly updates, saying yes or now to them, and keeping on whoever supports the hardware and software to get the no answers fixed to they are a yes.
Blindly saying no without checking is the same as saying "I had a bad reaction to pediamycin so now I just throw out all the pills I get for anything". It'll drop the odds of a bad reaction but the cost is too high.

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