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D3 may have been considered a failure to alot of people. Even if so the game still has a huge fanbase. SC2 was a huge success. Lots of people enjoy those 2 titles and thats the only 2 games blizzard has released in 10yrs. Aside from WoW expansions. Blizzard may not live up to some Godly expectations , but they sure do know how to make games run very well.

Haters are always gonna hate..WoW was and is still top notch for its genre. Most people can look past the shallowness of caring about awsome graphics. WoW may not have the best graphics but the game offers so much. So I say yes! There that good!

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Originally posted by ShakyMoThe thing with tl2 is it really a rip off, when there are probably more people from diablo 1 working on it than diablo 3.

Something went terribly wrong with blizzard when they merged with activision. Not getting bought up by ea wrong, but they aren't what they used to be for sure. They used to be about make good games, get a good reputation, the money will come. With diablo 3 it was more design the game to make as much money as possible then try and squeeze the fun in somewhere. I don't hold much hope for Titan.

I would still call it a ripoff, particularly in regard to what meaning I had behind calling it that in my post. A new property in a defined genre that, more or less, does nothing but replicate features which have proven successfull in that genre. There really isn't new ground being tread from Torchlight. WHY that is has no bearing on this. What does have bearing is the fact we love it anyway. Its well done, and fun. How much it copied from an already proven formula was irrelevant.

So why do we hate it so much when MMO gaming does the very same thing? All FPS games basically rehash the same mechanics. All hack and slash games do. Why is it so hard to expect MMO gaming to do the same? More, why can't we simply accept that we no longer want MMO gaming? We may still want online worlds to explore...even still want tons of players in those worlds. But the genre, as it is currently defined and structured, is set in stone. They will all have the same UI, because chaning game controls is a sure fire way to lose players. They will all have similar mechanics because the design philosophy of the genre is to drag out content to ensure more long term players. They will all feel the same since they rely so heavily on RPG math to function.

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It got nothing to do with quality just with the state of the mmo genre and its community and why WoW became succesfull is a matter of timing and being the first mainstream mmo. So there's no answer for me in the poll. I don't think blizzard is all that great, many of the good devs (like for example the A.net founders, of which one was lead dev on WoW before its release) left that company over the years and several of them have stated that part of their decision was they couldn't use their creativity all that much anymore and were forced to stick to the same formula for everything.

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For the hundredth time, WoW was successful because it allowed people to mod when no one else would (most still don't). Everyone ran to WoW because of this and the monster got big quick. Then it became "the game everyone has played" so now it's a social icon. Plus, their silly cell shade cartoon colored graphics don't lag. It is not better than other games.

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Originally posted by bcbully

Let me start by sayin I played WoW for five years, with an embarrassing amout of time /played on just my main not to mention my 8 alts. I stopped playing about a year and a half ago, and have no plans to go back. WoW is dated, and was taken in a direction that I could not agree with. Which brought a level of distrust for Blizzard that hasn't eased yet.

With that said, how is it possible that Blizzard can take this old game with an older engine and probably sell more copies of it's 4th expansion than GW2, SwTOR, TSW and RIFT combined?! What does this say about the rest of the developers out there? How is it that Blizzard can make a game where millions of people play for years and these other developers can't make a game where most people want to play 6 months? To be far I did play RIFT for ten months. I tip my hat to the TRION team, but that's a far cry from years.

So which one is it? Blizzard is that good, or does the rest of the industry suck that bad? It's either more of one or the other.

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Blizzard is that lucky.

They are the Windows of MMO's. as an analogy you could argue there are a lot of Linux platforms out there much better than Windows, some might say Mac is the better OS for holding your hand, yet here is Winblows, still at the top. Why? It's supported and it was given an I-Win card many years ago. The only way for WoW to screw up is if WoW screws up. The only way for other game companies to become better is to play the Apple card. Survive and own your moment when and if it comes.

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Don't flame me for saying this, but in my personal opinion WoW was a fluke-but a repeatable fluke. By this, I mean nobody will be able to recreate what Blizzard has done with WoW, with the exception of Blizzard. But the only reason it will be possible is because it's Blizzard continuing tradition and the fact that many, many, MANY gamers will flock to Titan when it's released because of WoW.

Before WoW, half a million subs was incredible. WoW took that barrier and bent it over backwards-but no company that has duplicated the WoW model has had success. WoW was the first solo and casual-friendly MMO and, in my opinion, the most adaptable. This I would attribute to the devs at Blizzard loving their game, its content, and its players. (And the cash probably didn't hurt, either.)

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some of this stuff people are posting is dillusional at best here , seriously. WOW on this site is just hated by the masses here and people post nonsense. Im watching more and more people i know getting ready for the panda's in guild wars 2 as we speak because they are sick of shitty customer service , and devs that just are about braindead when it comes to reasonable solutions. Blizzard has said what they want to do , and stuck to their guns not flip flopping over the years to the myriads of cry baby players whom dont even know what they want from one day to the next. While i think wow has outlived itself for a lot of us here, some of you just refuse to accept the game as a good game and people staying with it for all these years just enjoy it. Right now i was a guild wars 2 fanboi , but i myself am debating giving them the boot because im about sick of their horrible customer service and solutions that punish their playerbase over stupid gold farmers and dungeon crawlers. Not to mention what BCBully said about the rollbacks and flat denial of it. Blizzard may have a game that is old as dirt , but accept it there is still millions more playing it instead of games like guild wars 2 or rift or swtor. Obviously they are doing something right . Oh yeah the retort here is , its just asians playing it and kids , yet the US servers seem to still be packed to the core with players.

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Originally posted by cronius77some of this stuff people are posting is dillusional at best here , seriously. WOW on this site is just hated by the masses here and people post nonsense. Im watching more and more people i know getting ready for the panda's in guild wars 2 as we speak because they are sick of shitty customer service , and devs that just are about braindead when it comes to reasonable solutions. Blizzard has said what they want to do , and stuck to their guns not flip flopping over the years to the myriads of cry baby players whom dont even know what they want from one day to the next. While i think wow has outlived itself for a lot of us here, some of you just refuse to accept the game as a good game and people staying with it for all these years just enjoy it. Right now i was a guild wars 2 fanboi , but i myself am debating giving them the boot because im about sick of their horrible customer service and solutions that punish their playerbase over stupid gold farmers and dungeon crawlers. Not to mention what BCBully said about the rollbacks and flat denial of it. Blizzard may have a game that is old as dirt , but accept it there is still millions more playing it instead of games like guild wars 2 or rift or swtor. Obviously they are doing something right . Oh yeah the retort here is , its just asians playing it and kids , yet the US servers seem to still be packed to the core with players.

Cronius there is no gold farming in GW2. I remember vividly the ANET devs saying they produced a economy that was immune to gold farming cause there would be no benefit to gold farming. Are you telling me this was not true? I can't believe it.

Blizzard is that good for the only reason they have had 7 years running a high population game and they have experience. These other devs might be great but they are trying to break into the big leagues and while they may have tons of small market and graduated top of their class there is just no other company that has half of the experience running a multi-million user MMO then Blizzard. Can't teach experience.

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Originally posted by stratasaurus

Blizzard is that good for the only reason they have had 7 years running a high population game and they have experience. These other devs might be great but they are trying to break into the big leagues and while they may have tons of small market and graduated top of their class there is just no other company that has half of the experience running a multi-million user MMO then Blizzard. Can't teach experience.

Trion is doing just fine. Rift is a huge success, Defiant is ground breaking, combining a TV show with an online game. No idea how or if it will work, but kudos for trying something different. EON looks to be very successful. Trion is big boy now, and they are doing very well.

I don't dislike Blizzard, MOP should be a great game, people aren't even tlaking about the fact they are updating skill systems and tweaking alot of the the basic game. It is not just "pandaland", but all people see is pandaland which show the common sense factor for most MMO plahyers is very low, as are social skills. The way people treat each other on this board is proof enough for that.

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Blizzard decided to cater to the masses, and the masses like having their hand held. Blizzard simply does it better than anyone else, hence why they are so successful.

Also why I quit WoW after Battlegrounds was launched.

Dude, you are SO hardcore. Stick to your principles. Don't play silly games just because they are fun. If it's popular, run away!! I like that! keep it up man!

That's the thing, your definition of fun and mine are completely different it seems. I'm a fan of the old school MMOs, you're a fan of themepark MMOs. Both have their place in the MMO marketplace, and both cater to particular playstyles. My point still stands.

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I'd love to see a new EQ wrapped in pretty packaging but keeping the same mechanics and play style. (I'd still like the maps and quest log, though.) Something about having to work for literally everything you obtained in that game made it a lot more enjoyable, in my opinion. EQ2=WoW, in a lot of ways, which was a huge disappointment.

I think that devs are just scared they won't be able to possibly top WoW's sub numbers by doing this, but there would definitely still be enough draw to the game to merit its creation. The type of players drawn to that type of game would most likely (if the game was done right) be LONG term sub holders.

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Originally posted by Saur0nBlizzard games do well because there are a billion blizzard fanboys. And it's not devs that are the problem. It's the production companies who force the devs to make lame crap that are the problem.

I don't think it's fair to blame the fans or the production companies. WoW did a LOT of things right, and adapted their game to meet rising interest in the MMORPG genre by more casual gamers. This is what really propelled them to the top initially, seeing as they were coming from the EQ days when only "nerds" played MMORPGs. Home PCs were also becoming a lot more common around the same time, which helped their numbers get as high as they did. Not to mention that the computers needed to run WoW weren't exactly top of the line. Add to that the quality of design, art, music, everything that went into the game, and you ended up with a very addictive and user-friendly game that blew up in popularity.

Not to mention the fact that they were in the right position at the right time to make their game when they did, and the only real competition was EQ2 which wasn't nearly as solo-friendly at launch, and EQ1 which was dated and even less solo-friendly than EQ2 was. Warcraft also had a slightly longer history than EQ, from the original Warcraft games, which gave it a large initial player base.

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First off I cant say where this thread has gone b/c its 18 pages old by the time Im reading it so excuse me if Ive covered or said something that has already been said(wasnt reading all 18 pages). Also Ive palyed WoW and its not for me and my response is no way to bash Blizzard or WoW.

Is Blizzard that great...hmmm...I think its more them being lucky. They were great at advertising there product which probably led to their success. MOST other devs do not utilize this aspect of releasing MMOs(yes only MMOs b/c PS/XBOX games are advertised ALL the time). Did they create something great? Probably b/c every other dev just constantly releases another WoW colne. I think most devs TRY way to hard to be the ones who take down the GIANT that is Blizzard, by releasing unfinished games, i.e. AoC or just copy Blizzards model and call it there own, i.e. SWTOR, which I have played both games.

I dont think that most devs put in any real time to come up w/ something new and refreshing b/c 1: They are afraid that itll fail b/c its nothing like WoW, and they think thats what players want. 2: They dont listen to what players really want. Think about it, all the games that have come out in the past few years that are different fail b/c they are not finished or they fail b/c they are some clone of WoW and if players wanted that why would they leave WoW, where they have vested time in things, for something new but the same to start over.

I dont see why any dev would pump tons of $$$ into a project to copy it and have it fail. Why not pump tons of $$$ into something new and refeshing and take a shot on it taking off and being successful? As long as its finished and ready for release. At least the later you have a CHANCE of it being the next big thing. I beleive most devs sit in a room and discuss how are we going to take down WoW. To me wrong discussion to be having. How about discussing what can we do that is new and different.

Look the bottom line is that these devs have the capability of being the next WoW, problem is they get to wrapped up in it. Their not dumb they are gamers themselves they know where to take things, at least I hope they do. Stop worrying about WoW, Blizzard, whatever. Your customers, players, and fans are out there maybe its high time you start listening to them, after all WE are what makes YOU successful in the long run. If not I can always wait until your game goes F2P to play it, saves me the $$$...