From clay at fandre.com Mon Apr 8 15:42:26 2002
From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver
In-Reply-To: <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com>
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com>
Message-ID: <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com>
So what's the best Linux driver to use with a Orinoco Gold PCMCIA card?
From chrise at pobox.com Mon Apr 8 16:00:01 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver
In-Reply-To: <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 03:42:30PM -0500
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net>
On Monday (04/08/2002 at 03:42PM -0500), Clay Fandre wrote:
> So what's the best Linux driver to use with a Orinoco Gold PCMCIA card?
I have an extreme preference for "orinoco_cs" which you will find
in the pcmcia-cs package.
This is the best reference I have found on the topic:
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Wavelan-IEEE.html
cje
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From chrise at pobox.com Mon Apr 8 16:32:01 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver
In-Reply-To: <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net>; from chrise@pobox.com on Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 04:00:45PM -0500
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net>
On Monday (04/08/2002 at 04:00PM -0500), Chris Elmquist wrote:
> On Monday (04/08/2002 at 03:42PM -0500), Clay Fandre wrote:
> > So what's the best Linux driver to use with a Orinoco Gold PCMCIA card?
>
> I have an extreme preference for "orinoco_cs" which you will find
> in the pcmcia-cs package.
>
> This is the best reference I have found on the topic:
>
> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Wavelan-IEEE.html
oops. Sorry. That's not entirely the correct URL (although you can
get to the one I intended from there). Here's the one I really meant
to send:
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Orinoco.html
cje
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From chrise at pobox.com Wed Apr 10 21:04:01 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Crisco Aironet 430 lost Installation Key
Message-ID: <20020410210359.C23525@n0jcf.net>
We have a Crisco Aironet 430 that had an unknown management password.
Someone followed a procedure found a Crisco website that was supposed
to revert the unit to factory settings and allow us to put a new
password in. Unfortunately, this procedure was wrong either entirely
or just for the particular firmware version we were running-- and the
result is that the unit has lost its "Installation Key".
Without this key, the unit runs in an extremely crippled fashion--
probably some kind of demo mode-- because it won't do WEP and it won't
allow more than one node to associate with it. Nice...
Crisco says the unit is toast and we have to send it back for repair.
It's out of warranty and I can't believe it would be cost effective
to ship it to them, pay their service charge and ship it back-- when
I can go to Best Buy and get any number of comparable units for
~$180.
Has anyone experienced this bit of Crisco Rocket Science? Is there
another way out before we put this baby in the morgue?
It would seem that if I had the 60 byte Installation Key file... I might be
able to xmodem it onto the thing using a download or upload
(depending on who is up and who is down :-) ) function that I saw
on one of the menus.
I have seen numerous web postings where people have apparently experienced
this same bit of botchery and Cisco has provided them with the key to
fix the problem. For us, they have taken the position that we have to
send it back and they won't offer up any key.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From chrise at pobox.com Wed Apr 10 21:13:00 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Crisco Aironet 430 lost Installation Key
In-Reply-To: <20020410210359.C23525@n0jcf.net>; from chrise@pobox.com on Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 09:03:59PM -0500
References: <20020410210359.C23525@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020410211343.E23525@n0jcf.net>
Oops. Sorry... the unit is a model 340 not a 430. I have my shoes on
the wrong feet too...
cje
On Wednesday (04/10/2002 at 09:03PM -0500), Chris Elmquist wrote:
> We have a Crisco Aironet 430 that had an unknown management password.
>
> Someone followed a procedure found a Crisco website that was supposed
> to revert the unit to factory settings and allow us to put a new
> password in. Unfortunately, this procedure was wrong either entirely
> or just for the particular firmware version we were running-- and the
> result is that the unit has lost its "Installation Key".
>
> Without this key, the unit runs in an extremely crippled fashion--
> probably some kind of demo mode-- because it won't do WEP and it won't
> allow more than one node to associate with it. Nice...
>
> Crisco says the unit is toast and we have to send it back for repair.
> It's out of warranty and I can't believe it would be cost effective
> to ship it to them, pay their service charge and ship it back-- when
> I can go to Best Buy and get any number of comparable units for
> ~$180.
>
> Has anyone experienced this bit of Crisco Rocket Science? Is there
> another way out before we put this baby in the morgue?
>
> It would seem that if I had the 60 byte Installation Key file... I might be
> able to xmodem it onto the thing using a download or upload
> (depending on who is up and who is down :-) ) function that I saw
> on one of the menus.
>
> I have seen numerous web postings where people have apparently experienced
> this same bit of botchery and Cisco has provided them with the key to
> fix the problem. For us, they have taken the position that we have to
> send it back and they won't offer up any key.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From martin_ferguson at ardais.com Fri Apr 12 17:08:54 2002
From: martin_ferguson at ardais.com (Ferguson, Martin)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Linux WMP11 as access point
Message-ID: <0FFCDE55CA16D411BCA700508BC74D994DC75C@thistle.ardais.com>
Greetings Asim,
Did you ever have any success in using the WMP11 PCI card as a linux access
point?
/s/ Martin
=======================================================
Tue Jan 15 18:56:59 2002
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> > [...]
> > Why are you not interested in using the adapter cards ? If price
> > is the problem, MPC in Eagan currently has Lucent adapters for $10
> > (I believe they use a TI bridge chip, not a PLX.)
>
>My bad - they are $20.
>--
>andyw@pobox.com
>
>Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
>_______________________________________________
>Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>Minnesota
>
>tcwug-list@tcwug.org
>
The reason I didn't want to use PCMCIA/Adapter combo is because attaching
external antennas is nasty and flaky most of the time. I know you can buy
pigtails for a bunch of the cards out there including the Orinoco (~ $40 for
pigtail)...
Over the weekend, I did end up buying the linsys WMP11 for my leeenux!
The installation for client setup was pretty straight forward using the
wlan-ng driver.
Now I am going to try setting it up as an AP. I am not sure if Jouni
Malinen's driver will work as someone had suggested earlier. That driver is
written for PCMCIA cards, and I have a PCI card.....I suppose I will find
out.
Asim
From natecars at real-time.com Wed Apr 17 10:59:01 2002
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] ok, where do I start?
In-Reply-To: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A587@POPEYE>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, nryberg@uspsoig.gov wrote:
> I'm thinking about setting my dad up with a solution to a similar
> solution. My parents are living in kind of a dual home situation to
> help out my grandparents who are across the street, about 500 feet
> away.
>
> What would you suggest for an AP and or antenna that could make that
> reach? Or would most products out there do it on their own?
Nick,
Sorry, haven't checked this mailbox in forever.
Cheap, go a Linksys WAP11, and an antenna and cable from hyperlink
[http://www.hyperlinktech.com/]. 14dBi patch should be way more than
enough power for that reach, assuming you've got good line of sight.
So, $149 for the antenna + cable, ~$130 for a WAP11, and whatever kind of
client card you want.
Note that if you'll be going through walls or anything this may not work
real well -- I've heard people recommend buying a USB wireless card for
the client side so you can put it in a window facing the right direction.
--
Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500
From natecars at real-time.com Wed Apr 17 11:00:02 2002
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Crisco Aironet 430 lost Installation Key
In-Reply-To: <20020410211343.E23525@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> Oops. Sorry... the unit is a model 340 not a 430. I have my shoes
> on the wrong feet too...
Dang, that's a nice AP.
Have you checked with BAWUG or one of those groups? Many of guys there
with more experience with Cisco than us..
--
Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500
From chrise at pobox.com Wed Apr 17 11:56:01 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Crisco Aironet 430 lost Installation Key
In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 11:00:13AM -0500
References: <20020410211343.E23525@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020417115656.E17432@n0jcf.net>
On Wednesday (04/17/2002 at 11:00AM -0500), Nate Carlson wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> > Oops. Sorry... the unit is a model 340 not a 430. I have my shoes
> > on the wrong feet too...
>
> Dang, that's a nice AP.
yes... and you would not believe how easy it was to toast it this way.
Important safety tip: If you ever loose the password for this AP or
have to perform any kind of firmware upgrade, make absolutely certain
you follow the procedure that is specific to the firmware version
and bootstrap revision that the unit is currently running. Someone
here used the wrong procedure-- essentially skipping a step-- which
caused the loss of the Installation Key. Cisco will just tell you to
go pound sand if you ask them to give you another Installation Key.
They insist that the unit has to be returned to home base to correct
this situation.
> Have you checked with BAWUG or one of those groups? Many of guys there
> with more experience with Cisco than us..
I have not. It's someone else's problem here now and I was just trying to
help. They fixed it by buying a Linksys WAP11.
cje
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From natecars at real-time.com Wed Apr 17 12:08:47 2002
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Crisco Aironet 430 lost Installation Key
In-Reply-To: <20020417115656.E17432@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> > Have you checked with BAWUG or one of those groups? Many of guys there
> > with more experience with Cisco than us..
>
> I have not. It's someone else's problem here now and I was just trying to
> help. They fixed it by buying a Linksys WAP11.
Heh, not exactly a Cisco-grade replacement, but that's ok.
So what are they gonna do with the old one?
--
Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500
From chrise at pobox.com Wed Apr 17 12:13:01 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Crisco Aironet 430 lost Installation Key
In-Reply-To: ; from natecars@real-time.com on Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 12:08:35PM -0500
References: <20020417115656.E17432@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020417121358.A17725@n0jcf.net>
On Wednesday (04/17/2002 at 12:08PM -0500), Nate Carlson wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> > > Have you checked with BAWUG or one of those groups? Many of guys there
> > > with more experience with Cisco than us..
> >
> > I have not. It's someone else's problem here now and I was just trying to
> > help. They fixed it by buying a Linksys WAP11.
>
> Heh, not exactly a Cisco-grade replacement, but that's ok.
>
> So what are they gonna do with the old one?
I'm not sure... but I'll let you know when I'm done with it :-)
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From clay at fandre.com Sun Apr 21 13:21:01 2002
From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver problems in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net>
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net> <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com>
So I got myself a Orinoco Gold card, and it works great in Windows,
but when I try and bring it up in Linux (using orinoco_cs) I get this
message in syslog:
kernel: eth0: Tx error, status 4 (FID=01??)
and then pump times out. Any idea?
I tried both the orinoco_cs from the 2.4.18 kernel and from pcmcia_cs,
both with the same results.
TIA
-- Clay
From clay at fandre.com Sun Apr 21 13:35:01 2002
From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver problems in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com>
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net> <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net> <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com>
After doing a little more debugging, it looks like it's erroring out
at the iwconfig line:
+++ /sbin/iwconifg eth0 essid matrix
Error for wireless request "Set ESSID" (8B1A) :
SET failed on device eth0; Invalid argument.
Here is a little if the dmesg output:
eth0: Station identity 001f:0001:0007:001c
eth0: Looks like a Lucent/Agere firmware version 7.28
eth0: Ad-hoc demo mode supported
eth0: IEEE standard IBSS ad-hoc mode supported
eth0: WEP supported, 104 bit key
eth0: MAC address 00:02:2D:4F:B8:CB
eth0: Station name "HERMES I"
eth0: ready
eth0: index 0x01: Vcc 5.0, irq 3, io 0x0100-0x013f
On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Clay Fandre wrote:
> So I got myself a Orinoco Gold card, and it works great in Windows,
> but when I try and bring it up in Linux (using orinoco_cs) I get this
> message in syslog:
>
> kernel: eth0: Tx error, status 4 (FID=01??)
>
> and then pump times out. Any idea?
>
> I tried both the orinoco_cs from the 2.4.18 kernel and from pcmcia_cs,
> both with the same results.
>
> TIA
>
> -- Clay
>
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
From andyw at pobox.com Sun Apr 21 16:15:01 2002
From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver problems in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 01:35:43PM -0500
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net> <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net> <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com> <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20020421161516.A13177@florence.linkmargin.com>
Clay Fandre wrote:
> After doing a little more debugging, it looks like it's erroring out
> at the iwconfig line:
what is the output from "iwconfig eth0" ?
what kind of network are you trying to make it work with
(ad-hoc/AP etc etc) ?
Sounds like it is not asscoiating with the AP (assuming you're
trying to use an AP-based network.)
--
andyw@pobox.com
Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
From chrise at pobox.com Sun Apr 21 17:07:00 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:45 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver problems in Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 01:35:43PM -0500
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net> <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net> <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com> <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20020421170757.G18666@n0jcf.net>
On Sunday (04/21/2002 at 01:35PM -0500), Clay Fandre wrote:
> After doing a little more debugging, it looks like it's erroring out
> at the iwconfig line:
>
> +++ /sbin/iwconifg eth0 essid matrix
> Error for wireless request "Set ESSID" (8B1A) :
> SET failed on device eth0; Invalid argument.
>
> Here is a little if the dmesg output:
> eth0: Station identity 001f:0001:0007:001c
> eth0: Looks like a Lucent/Agere firmware version 7.28
> eth0: Ad-hoc demo mode supported
> eth0: IEEE standard IBSS ad-hoc mode supported
> eth0: WEP supported, 104 bit key
^^^^^^^^^^^
This looks really suspecious to me. It's the same sort of thing I saw
with a D-Link Prism2 card when the card services were incorrectly
giving the card 3.3V when it should have 5v.
I fixed it by adding this double-secret "ignore_cis_vcc" option to the
"orinoco_cs" entry in /etc/pcmcia/config:
device "orinoco_cs"
class "network" module "hermes", "orinoco", "orinoco_cs" opts "ignore_cis_vcc=1"
I was indeed using the orinoco_cs driver with the Prism2 card.
This was on a Toshiba 2180 laptop. I never did have this specific
problem with any Orinoco card though-- so YMMV.
My Orinoco Gold signs on like this:
hermes.c: 3 Oct 2001 David Gibson
orinoco.c 0.08 (David Gibson and others)
orinoco_cs.c 0.08 (David Gibson and others)
eth0: Station identity 001f:0001:xxxx:xxxx
eth0: Looks like a Lucent/Agere firmware version 8.10
eth0: Ad-hoc demo mode supported.
eth0: IEEE standard IBSS ad-hoc mode supported.
eth0: WEP supported, "128"-bit key.
eth0: MAC address 00:02:2D:xx:xx:xx
eth0: Station name "HERMES I"
eth0: ready
eth0: index 0x01: Vcc 5.0, irq 5, io 0x0100-0x013f
(the 'xx' are my edits so as to not fuel my paranoia)
and that's with pcmcia-cs-3.1.31 and the orinoco driver supplied with it.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From clay at fandre.com Mon Apr 22 08:51:02 2002
From: clay at fandre.com (Clay Fandre)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver problems in Linux
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net> <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net> <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com> <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com> <20020421170757.G18666@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <3CC41543.1050305@fandre.com>
Chris Elmquist wrote:
>>eth0: IEEE standard IBSS ad-hoc mode supported
>>eth0: WEP supported, 104 bit key
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> This looks really suspecious to me. It's the same sort of thing I saw
> with a D-Link Prism2 card when the card services were incorrectly
> giving the card 3.3V when it should have 5v.
Ahhh, so the 104-bit key message is actually correct:
"WEP specifies the use of a 40-bit encryption key and there are also
implementations of 104-bit keys. The encryption key is concatenated with
a 24-bit "initialization vector," resulting in a 64- or 128-bit key.
This key is input into a pseudorandom number generator. The resulting
sequence is used to encrypt the data to be transmitted."
Taken from
http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/topics/vectors_2001-wireless_security.htm
From chrise at pobox.com Mon Apr 22 09:14:00 2002
From: chrise at pobox.com (Chris Elmquist)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Orinoco Gold driver problems in Linux
In-Reply-To: <3CC41543.1050305@fandre.com>; from clay@fandre.com on Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 08:50:59AM -0500
References: <20020319100025.A5050@n0jcf.net> <20020321094319.A29327@florence.linkmargin.com> <20020408204230.GC32198@fandre.com> <20020408160045.F18616@n0jcf.net> <20020408163214.G18616@n0jcf.net> <20020421182159.GA3783@fandre.com> <20020421183540.GB3783@fandre.com> <20020421170757.G18666@n0jcf.net> <3CC41543.1050305@fandre.com>
Message-ID: <20020422091357.A7621@n0jcf.net>
On Monday (04/22/2002 at 08:50AM -0500), Clay Fandre wrote:
>
> Chris Elmquist wrote:
> >>eth0: IEEE standard IBSS ad-hoc mode supported
> >>eth0: WEP supported, 104 bit key
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > This looks really suspecious to me. It's the same sort of thing I saw
> > with a D-Link Prism2 card when the card services were incorrectly
> > giving the card 3.3V when it should have 5v.
>
>
> Ahhh, so the 104-bit key message is actually correct:
>
> "WEP specifies the use of a 40-bit encryption key and there are also
> implementations of 104-bit keys. The encryption key is concatenated with
> a 24-bit "initialization vector," resulting in a 64- or 128-bit key.
> This key is input into a pseudorandom number generator. The resulting
> sequence is used to encrypt the data to be transmitted."
>
> Taken from
> http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/topics/vectors_2001-wireless_security.htm
well, it's correct I suppose. But what I saw with the D-Link card is that
by just changing the voltage supplied to the card-- ie, by using the
"ignore_cis_vcc" option-- and not changing any other drivers or firmware,
the card would go from 104-bit to 128-bit encryption according to the
'dmesg' signon text. It also went from not working to working at the same
time. Go figure.
cje
--
Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~chrise
From v0key at yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 08:52:49 2002
From: v0key at yahoo.com (Richard T Nechanicky)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: <20020422091357.A7621@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020427134504.21838.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of
Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
I have approximately 560 or so Access Points with
coordinates that I would like to compare if anyone
else is interested.
Thanks,
Rich
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
From v0key at yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 08:53:06 2002
From: v0key at yahoo.com (Richard T Nechanicky)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: <20020422091357.A7621@n0jcf.net>
Message-ID: <20020427134519.73551.qmail@web21103.mail.yahoo.com>
Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of
Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
I have approximately 560 or so Access Points with
coordinates that I would like to compare if anyone
else is interested.
Thanks,
Rich
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
From dieman at ringworld.org Sat Apr 27 10:56:30 2002
From: dieman at ringworld.org (Scott Dier)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: <20020427134504.21838.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020422091357.A7621@n0jcf.net> <20020427134504.21838.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020427152805.GD4002@ringworld.org>
* Richard T Nechanicky [020427 09:03]:
> Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of
> Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend a day driving around
the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to look around with
Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked.
--
Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/
From mbresnah at visi.com Sat Apr 27 12:39:43 2002
From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: <20020427152805.GD4002@ringworld.org>
Message-ID:
Concerning kismet... I can't get it to work reliably with my prism2.5 card.
To make it work at all I have to run 'prism2_monitor ' on the
channel I want to sniff on. It will then sniff on the channel I select, but
no others. If I run the script and specify a new channel, it will start
sniffing on the new channel, but stop on the first channel. Therefore, I
have to manually cycle through all the channels. Additionally, it sometimes
stops working on all channels and I have to restart card services via
'/etc/init.d/pcmcia restart'. What gives?
I am using:
kernel 2.4.7-10
Redhat 7.2
kismet 1.4.2
pcmcia-cs 3.1.33
wlan-ng 0.1.10
Linksys WPC11 v2.5
Dell Inspiron 3200 PII 266Mhz
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On
> Behalf Of Scott Dier
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:28 AM
> To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
>
>
> * Richard T Nechanicky [020427 09:03]:
> > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of
> > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
>
> If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend a day driving around
> the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to look around with
> Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked.
>
> --
> Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St.
> Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
From v0key at yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 17:45:47 2002
From: v0key at yahoo.com (Richard T Nechanicky)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: <20020427152805.GD4002@ringworld.org>
Message-ID: <20020427223700.99397.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com>
Let me know when you get up and running
(v0key@yahoo.com)...I have covered the NE side of the
cities pretty well...
Thanks,
Rich
--- Scott Dier wrote:
> * Richard T Nechanicky [020427
> 09:03]:
> > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory
> of
> > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
>
> If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend
> a day driving around
> the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to
> look around with
> Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked.
>
> --
> Scott Dier
> http://www.ringworld.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
>
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
From poptix at techmonkeys.org Sat Apr 27 23:11:25 2002
From: poptix at techmonkeys.org (Matthew S. Hallacy)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: ; from mbresnah@visi.com on Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 11:53:35AM -0500
References: <20020427152805.GD4002@ringworld.org>
Message-ID: <20020427220117.W26261@techmonkeys.org>
On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 11:53:35AM -0500, Mike Bresnahan wrote:
> Concerning kismet... I can't get it to work reliably with my prism2.5 card.
> To make it work at all I have to run 'prism2_monitor ' on the
> channel I want to sniff on. It will then sniff on the channel I select, but
> no others. If I run the script and specify a new channel, it will start
> sniffing on the new channel, but stop on the first channel. Therefore, I
> have to manually cycle through all the channels. Additionally, it sometimes
> stops working on all channels and I have to restart card services via
> '/etc/init.d/pcmcia restart'. What gives?
>
> I am using:
> kernel 2.4.7-10
> Redhat 7.2
> kismet 1.4.2
> pcmcia-cs 3.1.33
> wlan-ng 0.1.10
> Linksys WPC11 v2.5
> Dell Inspiron 3200 PII 266Mhz
>
> Mike
>
This is because Kismet doesn't do any channel hopping itself, you need
to use either the included scripts (prism2_hopper, etc) or run something
like prismstumbler in the background that hops channels.
This is all in the documentation, kismet is a great program.
--
Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203
From mbresnah at visi.com Sun Apr 28 00:16:05 2002
From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
In-Reply-To: <20020427220117.W26261@techmonkeys.org>
Message-ID:
> This is all in the documentation, kismet is a great program.
Where is the documentation? All I have is a README and I didn't spot
anything on the website. Did I overlook something?
Mike
From sulrich at botwerks.org Sun Apr 28 11:38:02 2002
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Message-ID: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org>
all-
i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
seem from the archives) was really done about it.
i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
the twin cities area.
since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
about it.
is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
integration with other WCNs.
any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
wireless access).
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
From mbresnah at visi.com Sun Apr 28 12:37:03 2002
From: mbresnah at visi.com (Mike Bresnahan)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org>
Message-ID:
Sounds like fun. I'm a wireless newbie, but I am eager to learn and willing
help out as I can.
Mike Bresnahan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On
> Behalf Of steve ulrich
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:17 AM
> To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
>
>
>
> all-
>
> i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
> several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
> area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
> the twin cities area.
>
> since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
> living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
> about it.
>
> is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> integration with other WCNs.
>
> any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
> interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
> administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
> on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
> access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
> is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
> meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
> wireless access).
>
>
>
>
> --
> steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
> PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
> _______________________________________________
From jrv at scc.net Sun Apr 28 19:49:48 2002
From: jrv at scc.net (Jack Vanatta)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org>
Message-ID: <000801c1ef06$cbe10ad0$6401a8c0@manx>
Yes, I would like that, and be willing to help.
I have been in communication with the people at www.personaltelco.net
(Portland, OR)
about this very idea.
My public access point is listed on their node map.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve ulrich"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
>
> all-
>
> i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
> several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
> area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
> the twin cities area.
>
> since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
> living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
> about it.
>
> is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> integration with other WCNs.
>
> any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
> interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
> administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
> on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
> access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
> is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
> meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
> wireless access).
>
>
>
>
> --
> steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
> PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
>
From andyw at pobox.com Sun Apr 28 21:45:23 2002
From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org>; from sulrich@botwerks.org on Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 11:17:21AM -0500
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org>
Message-ID: <20020428212020.A12732@florence.linkmargin.com>
steve ulrich wrote:
> [...]
> i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> seem from the archives) was really done about it.
Ack.
> [...]
> is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
Count me in.
> i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> integration with other WCNs.
I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver
(http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards,
so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a very
practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases, hacking
the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another
potential option.
I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with
as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to
build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut
from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding
hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture.
I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide
any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area,
given the flat terrain and low population density. However,
providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable
configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like
Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me.
I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
--
andyw@pobox.com
Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
From jeff at digitalguy.net Sun Apr 28 23:49:42 2002
From: jeff at digitalguy.net (Jeff Lehman)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020428232940.02ee0dd8@24.245.61.125>
Sounds like a good deal. I live in NE minneapolis also; near central and
st. anthony pkwy. I'm pretty much a newbie to 802.11 but I'd be interested
in doing what I can to contribute to any kind of network we set up. A
TCWUG meeting is definately overdue :)
Jeff
At 11:17 AM 4/28/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>all-
>
>i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
>finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
>discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
>in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
>seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
>i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
>several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
>area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
>the twin cities area.
>
>since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
>living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
>about it.
>
>is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
>and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
>time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
>access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
>i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
>real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
>to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
>willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
>integration with other WCNs.
>
>any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
>interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
>administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
>on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
>access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
>is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
>meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
>wireless access).
>
>
>
>
>--
>steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
>PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
>_______________________________________________
>Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>Minnesota
>http://www.tcwug.org
>tcwug-list@tcwug.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002
-------------- next part --------------
---
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From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Apr 29 07:55:04 2002
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:46 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <20020428212020.A12732@florence.linkmargin.com>
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org> <20020428212020.A12732@florence.linkmargin.com>
Message-ID: <20020429073747.C6987@botwerks.org>
when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Apr 28, 2002),
Andy Warner was madly tapping out:
> steve ulrich wrote:
> > [...]
> > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> > seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> Ack.
>
> > [...]
> > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> Count me in.
excellent!
> > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> > integration with other WCNs.
>
> I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver
> (http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards,
> so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a very
> practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases, hacking
> the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another
> potential option.
i just recently download the sputnik stuff. i haven't burned the iso yet
and taken a look at it? any thoughts on it? i'm a bit confused as to
where they seem to be taking this in the long run. the goals of the nocat
folks as well as the seattle wireless folks are quite clear. i don't
think the TCs is a good location for the seattle folks goals but an
organized co-op type venture is quite appealing to me.
> I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with
> as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to
> build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut
> from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding
> hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture.
>
> I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide
> any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area,
> given the flat terrain and low population density. However,
> providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable
> configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like
> Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me.
i think that you're dead on here. i don't hold out much hope for
achieving coverage anything like i've been able to observe in the downtown
boston or san francisco areas. these areas have sufficient population
density and interesting terrain to be able to engage in such activities.
quite simply - i'd like to see a forum for doing show and tells, assisting
local businesses (restaurants, coffee shops, libraries, etc) to provide
reciprocal services and/or access points, group discounts on gear, books,
conference fees, etc.
i'd also like to be able setup an access point, share a portion of my
wirelines b/w with the public, share a higher percentage of b/w with
cooperative members and receive the same treatment in another part of town
either at a coffee shop or knowing that i might be covered by someones
access point in another part of town. i think that using wired backhauls
with tunneling for select traffic is the most pragmatic approach to this.
there are alot of people within the twin cities that have caught the
wireless bug. some anecdotal evidence from people who have been wardriving
seems to back this up. i don't know how many of these people would be
willing to open up their access points for public access but i surmise
that there are a few and possibly a few who would be willing to setup
neighborhood access points to cover their local coffee shop,
park/playground, whatever.
> I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
> overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
> re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
> before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
> Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
> Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Apr 29 08:23:17 2002
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1ef06$cbe10ad0$6401a8c0@manx>
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org> <000801c1ef06$cbe10ad0$6401a8c0@manx>
Message-ID: <20020429081157.C7245@botwerks.org>
jack-
i just looked up your node on the personaltelco site. looks like you're
just a couple of blocks from my father in-law where i was planning on
hosting an AP as well. do you have any idea of what the range is on your
AP? we could likely coordinate on the coverage in that area.
when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Apr 28, 2002),
Jack Vanatta was madly tapping out:
> Yes, I would like that, and be willing to help.
> I have been in communication with the people at www.personaltelco.net
> (Portland, OR)
> about this very idea.
> My public access point is listed on their node map.
>
{snipped - misc previous correspondence}
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Apr 29 08:58:18 2002
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020428232940.02ee0dd8@24.245.61.125>
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20020428232940.02ee0dd8@24.245.61.125>
Message-ID: <20020429081805.D7245@botwerks.org>
jeff -
i'll follow up with you unicast re: NE coverage. but it sounds like there
is some life and interest in this topic on the list. i'm going to ping a
couple of other forums here in the twin cities regarding this (mn.general
where the s/n ratio is abysmal and the visi.* groups). i've placed a few
queries into the powers that be regarding hosting a meeting at work and
historically this has never been a problem so i'm not anticipating any
problems.
i'll have more information regarding what dates are available and such
within a day or so. more as it happens.
when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Apr 28, 2002),
Jeff Lehman was madly tapping out:
> Sounds like a good deal. I live in NE minneapolis also; near central and
> st. anthony pkwy. I'm pretty much a newbie to 802.11 but I'd be interested
> in doing what I can to contribute to any kind of network we set up. A
> TCWUG meeting is definately overdue :)
>
{snipped - misc previous correspondence}
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
From andyw at pobox.com Mon Apr 29 10:03:11 2002
From: andyw at pobox.com (Andy Warner)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] Daily Wireless
Message-ID: <20020429093927.C12732@florence.linkmargin.com>
A slashdot-like substance for wireless:
http://klickitat.yi.org/dailywireless/index.php
--
andyw@pobox.com
Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
From strohfus at homepages-etc.com Mon Apr 29 10:27:10 2002
From: strohfus at homepages-etc.com (John D. Strohfus)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] RE: tcwug-list digest, Vol 1 #61 - 11 msgs
In-Reply-To: <200204291445.g3TEjx108063@sprite.real-time.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c1ef8f$c66ae2e0$5d22020a@CALVIN>
Count me in also. I would love to help make a public network happen in the
Twin Cities. FYI I am on the east side of St. Paul (Woodbury).
- John
-----Original Message-----
From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On
Behalf Of tcwug-list-request@tcwug.org
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:46 AM
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: tcwug-list digest, Vol 1 #61 - 11 msgs
Send tcwug-list mailing list submissions to
tcwug-list@tcwug.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of tcwug-list digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Scott Dier)
2. RE: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Mike Bresnahan)
3. Re: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Richard T Nechanicky)
4. Re: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Matthew S. Hallacy)
5. RE: Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points??? (Mike Bresnahan)
6. interest in an actual community wireless network? (steve ulrich)
7. RE: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Mike Bresnahan)
8. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Jack Vanatta)
9. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Andy Warner)
10. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (Jeff Lehman)
11. Re: interest in an actual community wireless network? (steve ulrich)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:28:05 -0500
From: Scott Dier
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
* Richard T Nechanicky [020427 09:03]:
> Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of
> Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend a day driving around
the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to look around with
Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked.
--
Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "Mike Bresnahan"
To:
Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:53:35 -0500
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Concerning kismet... I can't get it to work reliably with my prism2.5 card.
To make it work at all I have to run 'prism2_monitor ' on the
channel I want to sniff on. It will then sniff on the channel I select, but
no others. If I run the script and specify a new channel, it will start
sniffing on the new channel, but stop on the first channel. Therefore, I
have to manually cycle through all the channels. Additionally, it sometimes
stops working on all channels and I have to restart card services via
'/etc/init.d/pcmcia restart'. What gives?
I am using:
kernel 2.4.7-10
Redhat 7.2
kismet 1.4.2
pcmcia-cs 3.1.33
wlan-ng 0.1.10
Linksys WPC11 v2.5
Dell Inspiron 3200 PII 266Mhz
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On
> Behalf Of Scott Dier
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:28 AM
> To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> Subject: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
>
>
> * Richard T Nechanicky [020427 09:03]:
> > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory of
> > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
>
> If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend a day driving around
> the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to look around with
> Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked.
>
> --
> Scott Dier http://www.ringworld.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St.
> Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:37:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard T Nechanicky
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Let me know when you get up and running
(v0key@yahoo.com)...I have covered the NE side of the
cities pretty well...
Thanks,
Rich
--- Scott Dier wrote:
> * Richard T Nechanicky [020427
> 09:03]:
> > Does anyone on this list have a running inventory
> of
> > Access Points mapped out in the Twin Cities area?
>
> If I get a GPS working, I would be willing to spend
> a day driving around
> the north metro area (coon rapids, anoka, etc) to
> look around with
> Kismet. I've got a gps i can use, but its broked.
>
> --
> Scott Dier
> http://www.ringworld.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List -
> Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
>
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:01:17 -0600
From: "Matthew S. Hallacy"
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
On Sat, Apr 27, 2002 at 11:53:35AM -0500, Mike Bresnahan wrote:
> Concerning kismet... I can't get it to work reliably with my prism2.5
card.
> To make it work at all I have to run 'prism2_monitor ' on the
> channel I want to sniff on. It will then sniff on the channel I select,
but
> no others. If I run the script and specify a new channel, it will start
> sniffing on the new channel, but stop on the first channel. Therefore, I
> have to manually cycle through all the channels. Additionally, it
sometimes
> stops working on all channels and I have to restart card services via
> '/etc/init.d/pcmcia restart'. What gives?
>
> I am using:
> kernel 2.4.7-10
> Redhat 7.2
> kismet 1.4.2
> pcmcia-cs 3.1.33
> wlan-ng 0.1.10
> Linksys WPC11 v2.5
> Dell Inspiron 3200 PII 266Mhz
>
> Mike
>
This is because Kismet doesn't do any channel hopping itself, you need
to use either the included scripts (prism2_hopper, etc) or run something
like prismstumbler in the background that hops channels.
This is all in the documentation, kismet is a great program.
--
Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://techmonkeys.org/~poptix GPG public key 0x01938203
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Mike Bresnahan"
To:
Subject: RE: [TCWUG] Re: Minneapolis Map of Access Points???
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:01:32 -0500
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> This is all in the documentation, kismet is a great program.
Where is the documentation? All I have is a README and I didn't spot
anything on the website. Did I overlook something?
Mike
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:17:21 -0500
From: steve ulrich
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
all-
i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
seem from the archives) was really done about it.
i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
the twin cities area.
since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
about it.
is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
integration with other WCNs.
any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
wireless access).
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
--__--__--
Message: 7
From: "Mike Bresnahan"
To:
Subject: RE: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:25:52 -0500
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Sounds like fun. I'm a wireless newbie, but I am eager to learn and willing
help out as I can.
Mike Bresnahan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org [mailto:tcwug-list-admin@tcwug.org]On
> Behalf Of steve ulrich
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:17 AM
> To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
>
>
>
> all-
>
> i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
> several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
> area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
> the twin cities area.
>
> since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
> living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
> about it.
>
> is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> integration with other WCNs.
>
> any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
> interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
> administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
> on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
> access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
> is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
> meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
> wireless access).
>
>
>
>
> --
> steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
> PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
> _______________________________________________
--__--__--
Message: 8
From: "Jack Vanatta"
To:
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:48:15 -0500
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Yes, I would like that, and be willing to help.
I have been in communication with the people at www.personaltelco.net
(Portland, OR)
about this very idea.
My public access point is listed on their node map.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve ulrich"
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
>
> all-
>
> i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
> several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
> area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
> the twin cities area.
>
> since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
> living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
> about it.
>
> is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> integration with other WCNs.
>
> any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
> interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
> administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
> on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
> access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
> is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
> meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
> wireless access).
>
>
>
>
> --
> steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
> PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
>
--__--__--
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:20:21 -0500
From: Andy Warner
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
steve ulrich wrote:
> [...]
> i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> seem from the archives) was really done about it.
Ack.
> [...]
> is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
Count me in.
> i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> integration with other WCNs.
I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver
(http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards,
so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a very
practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases, hacking
the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another
potential option.
I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with
as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to
build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut
from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding
hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture.
I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide
any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area,
given the flat terrain and low population density. However,
providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable
configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like
Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me.
I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
--
andyw@pobox.com
Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
--__--__--
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:32:30 -0500
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
From: Jeff Lehman
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
--=======2BCF50C7=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-21ADEFD; charset=us-ascii;
format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sounds like a good deal. I live in NE minneapolis also; near central and
st. anthony pkwy. I'm pretty much a newbie to 802.11 but I'd be interested
in doing what I can to contribute to any kind of network we set up. A
TCWUG meeting is definately overdue :)
Jeff
At 11:17 AM 4/28/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>all-
>
>i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
>finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
>discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
>in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
>seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
>i've had several opportunities to use the seattle wireless networks and
>several in the bay area as well as the guerrilla network in the boston
>area and i'm quite disappointed that there isn't anything equivalent in
>the twin cities area.
>
>since building really big service provider networks is what i do for a
>living. i figured if i'm disappointed in this i should really do something
>about it.
>
>is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
>and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
>time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
>access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
>i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
>real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
>to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
>willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
>integration with other WCNs.
>
>any takers? any interest in setting up a face to face meeting for
>interested parties? there are a plethora of network design and
>administration issues which would need to be addressed in deploying this
>on any scale. i understand that the dunn bros. in st. paul has wireless
>access and that it will be forthcoming at a few other locations. if there
>is considerable interest in a whiteboard session i can likely host a
>meeting a class/meeting room at work with a whiteboard. (sorry - no public
>wireless access).
>
>
>
>
>--
>steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
>PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
>_______________________________________________
>Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>Minnesota
>http://www.tcwug.org
>tcwug-list@tcwug.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/2002
--=======2BCF50C7=======
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Content-Disposition: inline
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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--__--__--
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:37:48 -0500
From: steve ulrich
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Reply-To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
when last we saw our hero (Sunday, Apr 28, 2002),
Andy Warner was madly tapping out:
> steve ulrich wrote:
> > [...]
> > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some
interest
> > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it
would
> > seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> Ack.
>
> > [...]
> > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> Count me in.
excellent!
> > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk
to
> > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be
quite
> > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> > integration with other WCNs.
>
> I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver
> (http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards,
> so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a
very
> practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases,
hacking
> the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another
> potential option.
i just recently download the sputnik stuff. i haven't burned the iso yet
and taken a look at it? any thoughts on it? i'm a bit confused as to
where they seem to be taking this in the long run. the goals of the nocat
folks as well as the seattle wireless folks are quite clear. i don't
think the TCs is a good location for the seattle folks goals but an
organized co-op type venture is quite appealing to me.
> I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with
> as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to
> build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut
> from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding
> hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture.
>
> I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide
> any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area,
> given the flat terrain and low population density. However,
> providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable
> configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like
> Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me.
i think that you're dead on here. i don't hold out much hope for
achieving coverage anything like i've been able to observe in the downtown
boston or san francisco areas. these areas have sufficient population
density and interesting terrain to be able to engage in such activities.
quite simply - i'd like to see a forum for doing show and tells, assisting
local businesses (restaurants, coffee shops, libraries, etc) to provide
reciprocal services and/or access points, group discounts on gear, books,
conference fees, etc.
i'd also like to be able setup an access point, share a portion of my
wirelines b/w with the public, share a higher percentage of b/w with
cooperative members and receive the same treatment in another part of town
either at a coffee shop or knowing that i might be covered by someones
access point in another part of town. i think that using wired backhauls
with tunneling for select traffic is the most pragmatic approach to this.
there are alot of people within the twin cities that have caught the
wireless bug. some anecdotal evidence from people who have been wardriving
seems to back this up. i don't know how many of these people would be
willing to open up their access points for public access but i surmise
that there are a few and possibly a few who would be willing to setup
neighborhood access points to cover their local coffee shop,
park/playground, whatever.
> I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
> overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
> re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
> before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
> Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
> Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
--__--__--
_______________________________________________
tcwug-list mailing list
tcwug-list@tcwug.org
https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
End of tcwug-list Digest
From sulrich at botwerks.org Mon Apr 29 17:25:29 2002
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <20020428212020.A12732@florence.linkmargin.com>
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org> <20020428212020.A12732@florence.linkmargin.com>
Message-ID: <20020429221534.GA18747@botwerks.org>
to follow up on this i have selected a few dates that i have available
to me for hosting this event. please let me know which of the
following dates will work for you. all times would be after 6PM CDT.
the meeting location is the cisco office in bloomington (pretty close
to the mall of america).
i have the following dates available within the following week and
assuming there is consensus and folks interested in attending i'll
book the room and make the appropriate gestures for hospitality (read:
food ;-))
monday - 6-May-2002
tuesday - 7-May-2002
thursday - 9-May-2002
if anybody has something that they would like to present on:
interesting antenna designs, andy's WAP 11 tower mount, pringles cans
w/o pringles and interesting h/w inserted, etc. please let me know.
i figure that this should be soon enough to allow andy to show off his
project and not delay its deployment too much. :-)
if there is any interest i can see if i can get someone to give a
presentation regarding some of the new cisco wireless gear and some
deployment tips. i don't dabble with this stuff on a daily basis for
work but i know people who do.
if this is too soon and people would like to push it out another week
or so i can arrange for that as well. just let me know. the
available conference room has considerable white board space and AV
equipment if someone would like to grace us with a presentation of
some sort.
when last we saw our hero (Monday, Apr 29, 2002),
Andy Warner was madly tapping out:
> steve ulrich wrote:
> > [...]
> > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some interest
> > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it would
> > seem from the archives) was really done about it.
>
> Ack.
>
> > [...]
> > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
>
> Count me in.
>
> > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk to
> > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be quite
> > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> > integration with other WCNs.
>
> I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver
> (http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards,
> so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a very
> practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases, hacking
> the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another
> potential option.
>
> I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with
> as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to
> build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut
> from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding
> hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture.
>
> I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide
> any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area,
> given the flat terrain and low population density. However,
> providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable
> configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like
> Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me.
>
> I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
> overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
> re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
> before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
> Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
> Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
> --
> andyw@pobox.com
>
> Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
From jkotek at madgenius.com Tue Apr 30 12:51:07 2002
From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Message-ID: <200204301741.g3UHfZ303079@itchy.madgenius.com>
I could make Tuesday (7th)
Jon Kotek
> to follow up on this i have selected a few dates that i have available
> to me for hosting this event. please let me know which of the
> following dates will work for you. all times would be after 6PM CDT.
> the meeting location is the cisco office in bloomington (pretty close
> to the mall of america).
>
> i have the following dates available within the following week and
> assuming there is consensus and folks interested in attending i'll
> book the room and make the appropriate gestures for hospitality (read:
> food ;-))
>
> monday - 6-May-2002
> tuesday - 7-May-2002
> thursday - 9-May-2002
>
> if anybody has something that they would like to present on:
> interesting antenna designs, andy's WAP 11 tower mount, pringles cans
> w/o pringles and interesting h/w inserted, etc. please let me know.
> i figure that this should be soon enough to allow andy to show off his
> project and not delay its deployment too much. :-)
>
> if there is any interest i can see if i can get someone to give a
> presentation regarding some of the new cisco wireless gear and some
> deployment tips. i don't dabble with this stuff on a daily basis for
> work but i know people who do.
>
> if this is too soon and people would like to push it out another week
> or so i can arrange for that as well. just let me know. the
> available conference room has considerable white board space and AV
> equipment if someone would like to grace us with a presentation of
> some sort.
>
> when last we saw our hero (Monday, Apr 29, 2002),
> Andy Warner was madly tapping out:
> > steve ulrich wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > i joined this mailing list a couple of weeks ago and i just recently
> > > finished catching up on the mailing list archives. from some of the
> > > discussions that took place a couple of months ago there was some
interest
> > > in creating a real community wireless network but nothing (or so it
would
> > > seem from the archives) was really done about it.
> >
> > Ack.
> >
> > > [...]
> > > is there a populace amongst the list that would be interested in meeting
> > > and coordinating the deployment (albeit i'm sure quite limited at this
> > > time?) of such a network? i'm in the process of setting up a public
> > > access point in my neighborhood (NE minneapolis) once my omnis show up.
> >
> > Count me in.
> >
> > > i've been hacking on the NoCatAuth stuff (http://www.nocat.net) to talk
to
> > > real routers (cisco) for the traffic shaping and such. since this seems
> > > to be the most promising mode of community authentication i would be
quite
> > > willing to host an authetication server for local authentication and
> > > integration with other WCNs.
> >
> > I've been doing a bunch of work recently with the hostap driver
> > (http://people.ssh.com/jkm/Prism2/) which now supports PCI/Mini-PCI cards,
> > so a single linux AP/portal (a la Sputnik(http://www.sputnik.com)) is a
very
> > practial and reliable option. Heck, just grabbing sputnik releases,
hacking
> > the server details and putting up our own auth server might be another
> > potential option.
> >
> > I do believe the very first thing we need to come to terms with
> > as a group is exactly what kind of network/service do we want to
> > build. The stated goals of existing WCNs seem to span the gamut
> > from simply sharing technical knowledge, to coordinating/branding
> > hot-spots, to supplying a complete local network infrastucture.
> >
> > I'll go on record as remaining dubious about our ability to provide
> > any kind of meaningful alternative infrastucture in the metro area,
> > given the flat terrain and low population density. However,
> > providing/promoting public access points, with reliable/predicatable
> > configuration and services, while utilising wired backhauls (like
> > Sputnik) sounds both practical and fascinating to me.
> >
> > I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
> > overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
> > re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
> > before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
> > Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
> > Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
> > --
> > andyw@pobox.com
> >
> > Andy Warner Voice: (612) 801-8549 Fax: (208) 575-5634
>
> --
> steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
> PGP: 8D0B 0EE9 E700 A6CF ABA7 AE5F 4FD4 07C9 133B FAFC
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
From jkotek at madgenius.com Tue Apr 30 12:53:21 2002
From: jkotek at madgenius.com (Jon Kotek)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] FS: D-Link DWL-1000AP
Message-ID: <200204301745.g3UHjic03114@itchy.madgenius.com>
Not sure if this is the best venue for this. I had a wild experiment that
didn't work right so I have an extra D-Link access point. Not sure if I have
docs or not but I am willing to burn a CD of the software that came with it.
I think they are selling for 135 bucks new right now I would take 60 bucks
for it or best offer. Nice basic AP to start with.
From nryberg at uspsoig.gov Tue Apr 30 14:19:53 2002
From: nryberg at uspsoig.gov (nryberg@uspsoig.gov)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
Message-ID: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A6CC@POPEYE>
I'm curious to see exactly what a re-cased WAP-11 would look like and what
it does.
How's a Saturday afternoon, sometime in May sound for people? Maybe Dunn
Bros. in St. Paul, as a good access point (so to speak), to get people
together?
I think we're approaching some sort of a critical mass in terms of people
who are interested... Andy, and a number of other notables, have provided
numerous, technically specific replies to my mega-newbie questions. If we
could have everyone more or less in the same room, especially with good
coffee, that'd be really nice.
If we can get a date going, how about intentionally cross-posting to the
TC-LUG list?
Since I'm a idea machine right now, who can I talk to about getting more
content up on the www.TCWUG.org website? This would be a good starting
point for people who would like to know what it takes to get started,
compatibility issues with *nix, and maybe some sample AP site maps of the
Twin Cities...
- Nick Ryberg
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Warner [mailto:andyw@pobox.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
--
andyw@pobox.com
From dean at ripperd2.dhs.org Tue Apr 30 17:00:11 2002
From: dean at ripperd2.dhs.org (Dean E.)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] FS: D-Link DWL-1000AP
In-Reply-To: <200204301745.g3UHjic03114@itchy.madgenius.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020430162016.02dbd7f0@ripperd2.dhs.org>
I may be interested... I am thinking about setting up a wireless lan in my
house area soon...
-Dean
At 12:45 PM 4/30/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Not sure if this is the best venue for this. I had a wild experiment that
>didn't work right so I have an extra D-Link access point. Not sure if I have
>docs or not but I am willing to burn a CD of the software that came with it.
>I think they are selling for 135 bucks new right now I would take 60 bucks
>for it or best offer. Nice basic AP to start with.
>_______________________________________________
>Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul,
>Minnesota
>http://www.tcwug.org
>tcwug-list@tcwug.org
>https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
--
Dean
dean@ripperd2.dhs.org
http://ripperd2.dhs.org/
Experience is something you don't get until just after you needed it.
From goober at goobe.net Tue Apr 30 17:50:03 2002
From: goober at goobe.net (Alex Hartman)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
References: <20020428111720.A6819@botwerks.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20020428232940.02ee0dd8@24.245.61.125> <20020429081805.D7245@botwerks.org>
Message-ID: <004e01c1efb2$2b7eec40$3201a8c0@jennifer>
steve
I've got a few antennas here, as well as a friend of mine who's got a gps
and laptop. (guess what us loosers do on the weekends) I'd be interested in
seeing if a few of these "Cantennas" can do some p2p links, as people have
suggested they can.
btw,
Out on the Unisys campus there's a really REALLY powerful link, SSID of
"2600". it's got wep so we didn't try anything with it, but anyone have any
clue who owns this link and is blanketing the entire southeast metro? (Just
out of curiosity really)
Anyways, an accual working wireless city lan would be nice. Ride the bus to
work, and check my email before i get there... *drool*
Also, there's the linux-wlan-ng project that also can use pci/pcmcia cards
in AP mode. This is what i do, since my AP sucks. Steve, got any phat
hookups for a cisco 350? :)
--
Alex Hartman - goober@goobe.net
PGP Key fingerprint = 26 41 19 56 19 81 E2 BC EE C8 1D F4 DB B8 ED B8
"Watch out for that bus!"
From natecars at real-time.com Tue Apr 30 17:50:27 2002
From: natecars at real-time.com (Nate Carlson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:47 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A6CC@POPEYE>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, nryberg@uspsoig.gov wrote:
> How's a Saturday afternoon, sometime in May sound for people? Maybe
> Dunn Bros. in St. Paul, as a good access point (so to speak), to get
> people together?
I'll try to attend, but may not be able to -- having a social life gets in
the way of things. (I have yet to be able to make it to a TCLUG meeting..
heh!)
> I think we're approaching some sort of a critical mass in terms of
> people who are interested... Andy, and a number of other notables,
> have provided numerous, technically specific replies to my mega-newbie
> questions. If we could have everyone more or less in the same room,
> especially with good coffee, that'd be really nice.
>
> If we can get a date going, how about intentionally cross-posting to
> the TC-LUG list?
I'd think we could get away with posting a single message to TCLUG just
mentioning the meeting..
> Since I'm a idea machine right now, who can I talk to about getting
> more content up on the www.TCWUG.org website? This would be a good
> starting point for people who would like to know what it takes to get
> started, compatibility issues with *nix, and maybe some sample AP site
> maps of the Twin Cities...
I've got access to it along with Rick (our web guy; cc'd) and Bob.
We just need to decide what type of content we want to put up there, and
get it going.
I'm certainly interested (along with many other people) in getting a
network going.. I was planning on setting up a access point for external
use at my house, but I sold the gear I was going to use (pair of Linksys
WAP11's, and a few antennas) to a company owned by a friend of mine who
needed a wireless link up in a hurry to replace a broken fiber, and
cashflow's tight right now so I don't get to buy new stuff. :( 'Course, I
do have a RG-1000 sitting in a box, so I could always just throw that in
my attic with the internal antenna (or convince myself to fork out $100
for a cheap-o omni and a pigtail to connect to the internal NIC), and it'd
probably cover a little bit around my house. :)
--
Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500
From blutgens at sistina.com Tue Apr 30 19:46:43 2002
From: blutgens at sistina.com (Ben Lutgens)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:48 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To:
References: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A6CC@POPEYE>
Message-ID: <20020501000722.GB324@sistina.com>
On Tue, Apr 30, 2002 at 05:36:38PM -0500, Nate Carlson wrote:
>
>I'd think we could get away with posting a single message to TCLUG just
>mentioning the meeting..
Yeah, as a member of both lists I'd venture to say that it's not too far
off topic to raise much stink. Plus there's tons of other announcements
that get posted.
--
Ben Lutgens | http://people.sistina.com/~blutgens/
System Administrator | http://www.sistina.com/
Sistina Software Inc. |
"If you love something set it free, if it doesn't come back to you
hunt it down and set it on fire" -- George Carlin
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From natecars at real-time.com Tue Apr 30 21:33:24 2002
From: natecars at real-time.com (natecars@real-time.com)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:48 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <004e01c1efb2$2b7eec40$3201a8c0@jennifer>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Alex Hartman wrote:
> Out on the Unisys campus there's a really REALLY powerful link, SSID
> of "2600". it's got wep so we didn't try anything with it, but anyone
> have any clue who owns this link and is blanketing the entire
> southeast metro? (Just out of curiosity really)
How many mac's do you see communicate with it?
Could be a PtP link to one of their other offices or something.. or is it
all over their campus?
Could be a campus-wide network, like some of the colleges are putting in.
:)
--
Nate Carlson | Phone : (952)943-8700
http://www.real-time.com | Fax : (952)943-8500
From sulrich at botwerks.org Tue Apr 30 21:33:30 2002
From: sulrich at botwerks.org (steve ulrich)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:35:48 2005
Subject: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
In-Reply-To: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A6CC@POPEYE>
References: <63B474C9AD27D411936400508BACF93018A6CC@POPEYE>
Message-ID: <20020501022845.GA33562@botwerks.org>
well- to follow up on this. i've received a considerable amount of
response regarding the dates that i've put forward for a proposed meeting.
it looks like monday's are out of the question for a lot of people and
pretty much everyone that has responded to my invitation to host a meeting
has come back with tuesday as the day.
to that end...
i've taken the liberty of reserving a meeting room at the cisco
bloomington office for tuesday, may 7, 2002 @ 6:30PM (feel free to come
later if that's too early for you).
it looks like any is willing to do a show-and-tell regarding his wap11
tower and there are plenty of topics for conversation / discussion.
soft-drinks are available (as is coffee of dubious quality) at no charge
and we have plenty of whiteboard space.
location details are available below. i'll be getting announcements out in
the local geeks channels (including TCLUG) within the evening. for those
of you that haven't been to the local cisco office details are below.
i've invited the local herd of cisco geeks to attend with the warning that
this is a neutral user group and there is to be no blatant product pitches
or harassment.
if you have some stuff you'd like to show and tell please let me know and
i'll make sure that you get some flight time. look forward to seeing all
of you there.
directions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
from the north
--------------
* take 35w south
* take 494 east to the 34th avenue exit, turn right
* immediately veer right and take the next right at the light onto
80th street.
* take the next immediate right onto international drive.
from the south
--------------
just like coming from the north except you take 35w north to 494.
from the (east|west)
--------------------
reaching 35w and following the above directions is left as an exercise
for the reader/attendee.
after you make it onto international drive ...
* international plaza is the large blue glass building to your left.
* you may park in the ramp and take the ramp elevators to level 1.
proceed through the glass doors to your right and down the lobby foyer
the main bank of elevators. take the elevator to level 4
note: you will need to sign in at the guard desk and indicate that you are
there for the wireless users group meeting in the cisco office in suite
400.
when last we saw our hero (Monday, Apr 29, 2002),
nryberg@uspsoig.gov was madly tapping out:
> I'm curious to see exactly what a re-cased WAP-11 would look like and what
> it does.
>
> How's a Saturday afternoon, sometime in May sound for people? Maybe Dunn
> Bros. in St. Paul, as a good access point (so to speak), to get people
> together?
>
> I think we're approaching some sort of a critical mass in terms of people
> who are interested... Andy, and a number of other notables, have provided
> numerous, technically specific replies to my mega-newbie questions. If we
> could have everyone more or less in the same room, especially with good
> coffee, that'd be really nice.
>
> If we can get a date going, how about intentionally cross-posting to the
> TC-LUG list?
>
> Since I'm a idea machine right now, who can I talk to about getting more
> content up on the www.TCWUG.org website? This would be a good starting
> point for people who would like to know what it takes to get started,
> compatibility issues with *nix, and maybe some sample AP site maps of the
> Twin Cities...
>
> - Nick Ryberg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Warner [mailto:andyw@pobox.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 9:20 PM
> To: tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> Subject: Re: [TCWUG] interest in an actual community wireless network?
>
>
> I think a face-to-face meeting of TCWUG would be a great idea, long
> overdue. I'll offer to do some show and tell at a meeting, with a
> re-cased, tower mount WAP-11 with POE, as long as the meeting happens
> before I bolt it to my chimney :-) If anyone can supply a PCMCIA-capable
> Mac (or an Intermec AP), we could do an alchemy BOF too, where Lucent
> Silver cards were upgraded to Gold.
> --
> andyw@pobox.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Twin Cities Wireless Users Group Mailing List - Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota
> http://www.tcwug.org
> tcwug-list@tcwug.org
> https://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/listinfo/tcwug-list
>
--
steve ulrich sulrich@botwerks.org
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