I could also have said, "I've eaten many faggots in my lifetime, but none of them were made with lamb heart. Although a few of them turned out to be mutton dressed as lamb."posted by hippybear at 4:13 PM on November 10, 2010 [1 favorite]

a very compelling read, he ahem...renders his pain into an eloquent examination. also those faggots sound delicious (but then I have always thought so...)posted by supermedusa at 4:35 PM on November 10, 2010

Considering you were getting cutesy with the double meaning in the FPP, you could have given us a link on how "faggot" the derogatory term came about and how it's related to the same word used for food. Or is the term related to firewood? FYI, shragging faggots cost 6s per 100 to make in 1860 - that's an outrage.

FTA: "The accuracy of this etymology is highly debatable, but the idea behind it has taken hold. For an interesting take one this, watch this poker scene from the television series Louie. Warning: contains (very) adult language."

Online Etymology Dictionary says:
"The oft-heard statement that male homosexuals were called faggots in reference to their being burned at the stake is an etymological urban legend."

I don't see how you can call it "debatable" when this etymologic explanation it is simply not true. It is "taking hold" by people repeating the myth (with maybe tiny disclaimers about some sort of debate.)
I would like that word gone as well, but I'm not sure how that's helping.posted by ts;dr at 4:46 PM on November 10, 2010 [3 favorites]

I just knew he was going to throw out that not-at-all-true "burned at the stake" etymology. Bah.posted by gngstrMNKY at 4:46 PM on November 10, 2010

Well, it's intriguing to get some confirmation of the etymology of the word, but as long as we're splitting hairs, I'm going to call bullshit on something in the etymological dictionary:

Burning was sometimes a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorrah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed.

Not "sometimes." Frequently. (See Louis Crompton's Homosexuality and Civilization. I count at least 40 references to "burning" in that book.)posted by blucevalo at 4:55 PM on November 10, 2010

I used the word 'faggot' when I was a kid when I was a kid and i didn't really know what it meant beyond being negative since I'd heard older kids and adults using it that way. It's one I don't use now and I don't miss it.

I've never eaten lamb hearts. But I have eaten chicken hearts on a stick, not knowing what they were. They were tasty. I'd order them again.posted by jonmc at 5:00 PM on November 10, 2010 [1 favorite]

I always thought the etymology was derived from English public schools, when a younger boy "fagged" for an older one by building up the fire (w/ faggots of wood, I guess) in his room? And it came to be implied, performing other services. (as the link above).

I did not know about the connection to food, or that it referred to small, otherwise unusable bits (which relates to kindling I suppose) and so had an unsavory connotation that carried over when it was used for men.

Language is so strange. And this link is awesome thanks w0mbat.posted by emjaybee at 5:17 PM on November 10, 2010

FYI, shragging faggots cost 6s per 100 to make in 1860 - that's an outrage.

Sheer piracy! How are were people supposed to burn witches?posted by Artw at 5:44 PM on November 10, 2010

Growing up in the 60s/70s, I was called "faggot" more often than most heterosexual males of my generation. In fact, the labeling seemed a common practice in bullying at the time, and applied to anyone who didn't live up to what I considered to be an ugly standard of masculinity. There were three of us in particular in my high school class who got the worst of it and we became friends, but not best friends (one of my most notable quirks is the fact that I have NEVER had any friend I considered "best"). We were all virgins when we graduated high school and went on to college, and meeting again at our five-year reunion, I was mildly surprised to find that one of my two "faggot friends" had come out of the closet and was, indeed, gay. And I was unsurprised to realize that it didn't matter. (Another realization from the five-year reunion was that ALL of the worst bullies in the class were enrolled in Law School, but then almost half of my class in that middle-class high school ended up going to law school... just none of us "faggots".)

In spite of my high-school status as a bullying victim and "honorary faggot", I chose not to participate in the "It Gets Better" campaign, because in my generally undersexed heterosexual case, I don't think it really got any better, just different. My most vivid memory from a time living in one low-crime area of L.A. in my 20's was walking down a major street and having a pickup truck full of white males, college age and athletic-appearing, slowing down so they could all yell "faggot" at me. No confrontation with anyone of any ethnicity spooked me as much as that one, probably because they were recycling the methods and language of high-school bullying, reminding me that, at least for me, it never really goes away.posted by oneswellfoop at 6:18 PM on November 10, 2010 [7 favorites]

Ugh, I remember being chided for using the word "gay" when I was a kid. Hilariously, I found out I was gay as a teenager and then started a (not very successful until mid-college) campaign to get my friends to stop.

Considering you were getting cutesy with the double meaning in the FPP, you could have given us a link on how "faggot" the derogatory term came about and how it's related to the same word used for food.

The word faggot actually used to mean 'burdensome woman' which in turn came from 'bundle of sticks' A faggot was a woman that you had to carry around, metaphorically, like the sticks.posted by delmoi at 6:30 PM on November 10, 2010 [3 favorites]

You learn something new everyday. Clearly those lazy witches were not burning themselves!posted by Artw at 7:07 PM on November 10, 2010 [1 favorite]

'Scuse me, 'ave you got a bloomin' faggot?posted by bwg at 7:29 PM on November 10, 2010

I have eaten Mr Brains' Faggots (actually pork-liver-and-onion-balls) on many occasions and they are delicious if you are in the mood.posted by unSane at 7:39 PM on November 10, 2010 [1 favorite]

I know it's not a popular sentiment but these faggots kind of gross me out.posted by Mister_A at 8:03 PM on November 10, 2010

I lose count of the number of times I was called a faggot growing up and during college years, and in my case, apart from the contempt or ridicule involved, and apart from the loathsomeness of the epithet, it was also almost a signal to me (a signal that I spent a lot of time ignoring) that, even though I thought I was doing a great job pretending that I was straight or asexual, I was really convincing nobody, let alone myself.

At the same time, watching Michelangelo Signorile and Greg Fitzsimmons on TV tonight cluck about the occasions when it's proper to avoid charged words, or when it's great to shout them out as some sort of big middle finger to the "word police," was fairly nauseating. Their defiant non-expertise ("Well, 'mick' is just short for McCarthy or whatever") did nothing but confuse the issue, as if it weren't already confused enough.posted by blucevalo at 9:09 PM on November 10, 2010

After a teaching moment with a friend's 12 year old recently, the Ex and I discussed the use of the word. It's problematic because it's a favorite of ours, yet we've seen the effect words like faggot have on kids. I'm beginning to think that it's a word that needs to be stamped out. Also, I want sausage.posted by crataegus at 10:18 PM on November 10, 2010

My dad used to go on special trips to David Jones, the only department store in Adelaide that sold these things, just to buy them (we lived out of town). Personally I always found them a bit grim, especially the layers of chalky grey fat that would congeal on the outside. Now that I've made my peace with offal, mostly thanks to many dishes of delicious yum cha tripe, I no longer live anywhere near a regular supply. Oh well.

A very popular sweet when I was a boy. They were forced to change their name, but not for homophobic reasons.

Solution: take the sadly compromised 'fads' out of their downgraded packaging and put them in a real cigarette packet. If possible, dip in artificial orange drink to give the illusion of a filter section at one end. I don't recommend trying to set them on fire, though.posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 1:35 AM on November 11, 2010

The thing with faggot is that people who use it really want it to have etymologically used to have meant a bundle of men tied together to start off the auto-da-fé, even if they don't know what an auto-da-fé is. It's great that it didn't used to have this association, but it's history has been retroactively changed to be this. So basically people who defend it on linguistic grounds are defending a word that now always used to mean something different than it actually does. Linguistic prescriptivism works forwards, backwards, and sideways in time.posted by Peztopiary at 3:24 AM on November 11, 2010

"I have eaten Mr Brains' Faggots (actually pork-liver-and-onion-balls) on many occasions and they are delicious if you are in the mood."unSane

No, no, no. Brains' faggots are aborted monstrosities next to a decent, well made faggot. Find yourself a proper butcher and try the real thing.

That sloppy tripe Mr Brains punts out is best left well alone/to the dog.posted by fatfrank at 5:25 AM on November 11, 2010

It takes guts to be a faggot.

Wait a minute....I thought it took guts to be gentle and kind.posted by the bricabrac man at 6:33 PM on November 11, 2010

When someone asks me if I’m a fag, I ask how badly they want to find outposted by judson at 8:05 AM on November 12, 2010

I always ask "are you some kind of fag?" Just for shits and giggles.posted by uncanny hengeman at 7:11 PM on December 1, 2010

Tags

Share

About MetaFilter

MetaFilter is a weblog that anyone can contribute a link or a comment to. A typical weblog is one person posting their thoughts on the unique things they find on the web. This website exists to break down the barriers between people, to extend a weblog beyond just one person, and to foster discussion among its members.