The season is over. Like last year and the years before that, it sucked. Now it's time for a gripping, thought provoking Cleveland Browns offseason topic. What NFL franchise has displayed a level of suck most comparable to Cleveland's own "NFL Team": The Browns? This has to be teams that began pre-1995 (sorry Jaguars), and if they were around before the Super Bowl, their pre-Super Bowl history cannot be counted. Same with the Browns. Whattya think?

The Cleveland Browns are the only team in football, nay, all of professional sports, to ever endure a streak as hideous as only 2 winning seasons in 13 years. They should just disassemble the franchise.

Hikohadon wrote:The Cleveland Browns are the only team in football, nay, all of professional sports, to ever endure a streak as hideous as only 2 winning seasons in 13 years. They should just disassemble the franchise.

Hikohadon wrote:The Cleveland Browns are the only team in football, nay, all of professional sports, to ever endure a streak as hideous as only 2 winning seasons in 13 years. They should just disassemble the franchise.

The Pittsburgh Pirates?

The Bengals Comp is shockingly good.

The Bills have only 1 winning season in the last 12 and haven't been to the playoffs since the 90's, but the Browns are clearly worse.

When I was growing up (70's, 80's), there was a pretty bad team in Tampa and a pretty bad team in New Orleans. The Bucs had only 2 winning seasons in their first 21, and the Saints didn't have a winning record for their first 20 seasons. But both those situations clearly weren't as bad as what we're witnessing here.

The Lions just got done with 10 losing seasons in a row, including the 0-16 infamy, but because they're winning now it means those bad times never happened. Same with the Bengals only having one winning record in 18 seasons between '91 and '08.

The Cardinals went to the playoffs just 4 times in 60 years, going 26 years in between playoff appearances at one point and going 51 years in between playoff wins, but that was over 3 cities, so it doesn't really count because moving a team washes the local fans' memories clean.

We could of course discuss the Steelers of the 50's and 60's, but as Steeler fans would like us to believe, those seasons don't count.

As far as level of fanhood/team history though, I have a different team, and that is the Eagles. Philly has had alot of success in the past decade, minus the misery they endured this year; a year they were supposed to waltz into the playoffs. I don't think there are any non-Super Bowl winning teams that have the passionate fans like Cleveland and Philadelphia do. I also think that the Browns level of success during the 80s was pretty similar to the Andy Reid years.

The facts are that Green Bay's resurgence occurred at the same time Holmgren arrived. Whether that was all due to Wolf or not is debatable. You could also argue that his success in Seattle was all due to a GM. But the fact remains that he had winning seasons in 14 of 17 years he coached.

Carrying the anti-Holmgren crusade all the way to his coaching career seems both pointless and silly.

Besides, none of my posts were meant as an endorsement of Holmgren, more a representation that many teams have gone through a period of suck.

If Holmgren were coaching, I might try and make a correlation, but he ain't, so his record as Team President is 9-23.

I don't care about any Anti-holmgren sentiment, hiko you make good points there is no knocking holmgrens coaching chops. But Wolf had at LEAST as much to do with that turn around, as did Brett Favre. Wolf came in and his first moves were to hire Holmgren and trade a 1st rounder for Brett. The facts are that th resurgence coincided with Wolf as much as Holmgren. No need to undermine those moves or his considerable role in turning that franchise around.

JCoz wrote:I don't care about any Anti-holmgren sentiment, hiko you make good points there is no knocking holmgrens coaching chops. But Wolf had at LEAST as much to do with that turn around, as did Brett Favre. Wolf came in and his first moves were to hire Holmgren and trade a 1st rounder for Brett. The facts are that th resurgence coincided with Wolf as much as Holmgren. No need to undermine those moves or his considerable role in turning that franchise around.

He also signed Reggie White in FA.

Not trying to be argumentative but just wanted to point out that it was more than Big Mike's coaching acumen that helped the Packers return to glory.

The Seahawks are a better example of Holmgren's coaching ability, IMO.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team