ruscook wrote:Plodder,I definitely don't have with what you say, but would expand it from "drivers" to road users. We're ALL equally responsible for our actions on the road. I'd hate to see huge penalties for drivers, just end up allowing us to get away with anything. There's bogans on bikes too!

The police need to come down hard on "bogan" cyclists just as hard as they do on "bogan" drivers, but that has nothing to do with making the roads safer for cyclists by making drivers of lethal killing machines more responsible for their actions.

oldplodder wrote:The point I am making is that drivers really don't suffer much when they kill or injure cyclists.

It would have to be a pretty callous driver not to be affected emotionally.

Lets not jump to conclusions as to what may or may not have happened, none of us were there and we all know the media is not known for their reporting accuracy.

There are plenty of motorists that do the wrong thing as well there are equally plenty of cyclists that do the wrong thing too. I think we should let the police do their investigation before we get the lynch mob together.

After reading all comments on M4 accident this morning especially the comment regarding the drivers suffering how wrong you are! As you yourself have probaly never been involved in an accident that has caused death to a cyclist! suffering is something you would not no about. A life friend of mine has lived in misery with his family and friends during the last 16 months.The same incident that has occoured today on the M4 we have nursed our friend through, a devistateing period for his friends and family of western suburbs over this time period we have tried to help financialy mentally and physically rebahabilate my friend to his former self. His family moraging there family home to the point of no return. Sharing weekly commitments driving to all councelling visits. If the punishment for this driver is goal would you consider ever driving again. If these horrific accidents are allowed to occur with heavey vehciles and cyclists maybe we should seperate them and all affected could finally breath a sigh of relief.

hi Pete, i don't doubt it would be traumatic to have been behind the wheel of a vehicle that took another human life. i sincerely hope your friend - if i understood correctly, who was in that situation himself - fully recovers.

however, if the driver is found to have contributed to the incident through wilful negligence, e.g. driving over his allowable hours, then he should be held accountable to the full extent of the law, as well as any others who may have contributed.

sweetpete wrote: As you yourself have probaly never been involved in an accident that has caused death to a cyclist! suffering is something you would not no about.

Actually, my dad was killed by a bus while cycling. My dad is dead. Your friend is alive.

Who's family do you think is/was more devastated?

Excuse me if I feel less sympathetic towards your friend than the people he killed and their family.

Would you think cars should not be on the road if the person/people he killed were in a car? Would you think the same thing with regards to todays incident if the people killed had been in a car broken down on the shoulder?

The more I read this thread, the more sick to the stomach I get.....Just about all cyclists in western sysdney at least have ridden past this spot or somewhere along the m4. The breakdown shoulder is just so wide, seriously what is going on here ?

We had the cyclist mowed down on the M7 shoulder last year, the car that got hit by the tipper truck a few weeks ago and killed near Quakers Parkway overpass.

Honestly life just appears so cheap....snuffed out in a split second. This is seriously making me wonder if I want to continue to road ride, this one is just so close to home. Yes the truck driver deserves to provide a reason as to why this occured, he is innocent till proven guilty but knowing personally how wide that piece of road is, it would have to be a frikkin amazing reason !

Jules21 thanks for your comment. I hope this driver today had not exceeded his driving hours. My friend had been driving for 30 minutes.Simonn, my sympathay to you and your family for your loss. Sorry but my point is I am talking about cyclists and heavey vehciles on motorways and freeways.

sweetpete wrote:After reading all comments on M4 accident this morning especially the comment regarding the drivers suffering how wrong you are! As you yourself have probaly never been involved in an accident that has caused death to a cyclist! suffering is something you would not no about. A life friend of mine has lived in misery with his family and friends during the last 16 months.The same incident that has occoured today on the M4 we have nursed our friend through, a devistateing period for his friends and family of western suburbs over this time period we have tried to help financialy mentally and physically rebahabilate my friend to his former self. His family moraging there family home to the point of no return. Sharing weekly commitments driving to all councelling visits. If the punishment for this driver is goal would you consider ever driving again. If these horrific accidents are allowed to occur with heavey vehciles and cyclists maybe we should seperate them and all affected could finally breath a sigh of relief.

If he dozed off and drove into an innocent cyclist then I hope he never ever ever recovers. Stuff him, let him burn.

Edit - Harsh perhaps. But I lost a life-long friend to an inattentive driver. My friend will never be able to be a part of my living life, or my families life, or his families life. For the driver who killed him, life DOES go on. Free to choose whatever he wants to do every day that he wakes up.

And it's very clear that simonn is talking about the different attitude you imply towards cyclsts compared to cars when involevd in collisions with trucks. I agree that freeways are no place for bikes as a rule (some rural freeways are OK, but not an ideal riding route) however your focus on segregation is easily picked up by the anti-cycling lobby as an argument to push bikes off the roads. You read it all the time in SMH/Feral Hun comments.

On regular roads, make it safer for everyone - ride bikes on the road

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.

No I just want to make it safe for all!! Lets get together and do it. ie; cyclist great western highway, trucks M4, cyclist pacific highway, trucks F3, cyclists canterbury road, trucks M5, cyclists cycleway trucks M7 make rules then we all no where trucks are.

Pete I have to disagree. I understand the risks involved with cycling on freeway shoulders (I do it at least 10 times a week cycling to and from work) but kicking cyclists off onto substandard roads is not the solution. I believe part of the solution is education and a hell of a lot has to do with driver attitudes.

We don't know the full story behind this incident but fatigue of a truck driver or car driver is NO excuse. It's negligence.

sandman wrote:The more I read this thread, the more sick to the stomach I get.....Just about all cyclists in western sysdney at least have ridden past this spot or somewhere along the m4. The breakdown shoulder is just so wide, seriously what is going on here ?

We had the cyclist mowed down on the M7 shoulder last year, the car that got hit by the tipper truck a few weeks ago and killed near Quakers Parkway overpass.

Ten & Nine news showed a little more detail this evening. The cyclist killed was a 35 year old from Wollongong, the others injured in the early 20's. They were preparing for a ride for Father Riley's charity. So much for good Karma

The truck involved was a tipper + dog trailer (not a B-double), and pulled up a couple hundred meters down the road. Not the mark of a driver who deserves respect. It was reported that the cyclist killed was dragged under the truck for quite a distance.

Afternoon reports from the ABC said that Workcover was investigating whether driver fatigue was a factor (presumably checking log-books etc). There's more than a few cowboys driving these tipper + dog trailer combo's. My work is amongst the quarries at Eastern Creek, and its a very common sight to see these guys driving recklessly and using their mobile phones at the same time; pretty much a daily occurrence. It's mainly the subbies, rather than those driving quarry badged tipper-trailers.

There have been reports that the cyclist killed on the M7 shoulder (just North of the M4 overpass) was answering a mobile phone call (although I don't know if the coroner's report has been issued yet). It was nevertheless tragic that the P-plated truck driver involved did not have the experience or ability to avoid an errant cyclist.

boognoss wrote:Pete I have to disagree. I understand the risks involved with cycling on freeway shoulders (I do it at least 10 times a week cycling to and from work) but kicking cyclists off onto substandard roads is not the solution. I believe part of the solution is education and a hell of a lot has to do with driver attitudes.

We don't know the full story behind this incident but fatigue of a truck driver or car driver is NO excuse. It's negligence.

+10 Simon.

WombatK

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia

Boognoss wrote:Pete I have to disagree. I understand the risks involved with cycling on freeway shoulders (I do it at least 10 times a week cycling to and from work) but kicking cyclists off onto substandard roads is not the solution.

I can strongly agree with you on education and attitude shift.

Must admit I don't have too much experience with riding on freeway shoulders. It's illegal on urban freeways in Victoria, but I have ridden the Western Freeway (long ago) from Ballan to Melbourne (Sunshine) and we had no great problems. Greatest concern was the huge amount of cr@p (glass, metal, stones. timber) in the emergency lane. Overall, I didn't think I'd like to be doing it in the city, and traffic levels have only gone up in the 25 years since then. I know city streets are full of hazards, but if the speeds are lower and congestion higher then the consequences of any error are far less, and you have more options to avoid it. Claiming lane space being no. 1 (not possible on a freeway )

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.

sweetpete wrote:Boognoss ! JUST TRYING TO SAVE LIVES we need a soulution

Couldn't agree more and I provided two points that I believe are required and also stated that sub-standard roads are not the solution. I don't want to leave my wife a widow and my new-born son fatherless. We're on the same side of the fence here I hope Pete.

Really sad to read this. My thoughts go out to his family and the others involved.

Just finished watch the coverage on the TV news - lead story. Apparently the company owning the truck is already / going to be under workcover investigation.The media seem to indicate that the same company may own the truck involved in the M7 fatality (car driver) two weeks ago. Story here