Developer Chat

Hoops Dynasty

Stuck in a dead end job? Wondering what it takes to move up? Find out in this informative 30 minute chat session. Sponsored by HotJobs.com and the WCAA Coaches Association.

how long should it take in DIII to move up to DII? is it only determined by wins or time spent. (dennis4485 - Hall of Famer - 4:33 PM)

As with most of the answers, each resume is different so it's hard to give a single answer that will apply to every situation. To move from DIII to DII, it will be based primarily on success - it is possible to move up after a single great season in DIII. Of course, that assumes that there are jobs available and the jobs you apply to aren't given to more qualified candidates. It is NOT possible to get to DII though simply based on longevity - if you go 0-27 for 10 seasons in a row, you won't be able to land a DII job.

Is it possible to move up a level after a single season at your current level (regardless if that's DIII or above) or do you have to stay longer to get hired at the next level? (KPMcClave - Hall of Famer - 4:35 PM)

Yes, it is possible (see above answer). It's harder to make a single season jump from DII to DI than it is from DIII to DII though - not impossible, just much more difficult.

Is it impossible to jump a level (say DIII to DI-AA, or DII to DI-A) or do you have to put some time in at each level? (KPMcClave - Hall of Famer - 4:36 PM)

It is possible to skip over DII. That said, you won't be able to land a high-level DI job - the best you could possible hope for would be a mid-major in DI coming straight from DIII.

what will weigh in more when applying to schools: sucess or experience? (moe_123w - Pro - 4:39 PM)

Success is much more influential than experience.

It seems like some of the logjam in D1 could be solved by implementing firing of poor performing coaches. What is the current status on this? Thanks. (hickmbr4 - Hall of Famer - 4:42 PM)

We hope to release the new recruiting changes (in-season recruiting, watching recruits, non-qualifiers) next week for Rupp recruiting. The next "big" change will be the post-season administrative reviews and coaches getting fired. That said, I think there are certainly other reasons why some coaches did not vacate their current jobs - first and foremost would be their loyalty rating. The higher you go, the more severe the penalties for making lateral moves. While some coaches can build up 'credit' for being loyal at prior schools, it will eventually catch up to them.

In theory, would a coach who spent year after year in DII, winning 11-18 games a year and seldom, if ever, making the post-season EVER make it to DI on the strength of their experience alone? (tylermathias - Hall of Famer - 4:47 PM)

No, they would not be able to coach at DI.

How many schools in DI are "elite" jobs? And what will it take to qualify for those job in terms of overall wins/national tourney wins? (AceCards - Hall of Famer - 4:47 PM)

We don't really define schools as elite. Each school has a prestige rating which is a compilation of many factors (conference, attendance, national reputation, history, ranking, national tournament appearances, etc.). That prestige rating is the biggest determinant of how hard (or easy) it is to land that job. These are the highest ranked schools (in no particular order):
University of Arizona
University of Connecticut
Duke University
University of Kansas
University of Kentucky
University of North Carolina
Stanford University

Does Simmy Simpkins ever lie, you know, just to make it seem like you're close? (discokat - Prospect - 4:50 PM)

LOL, he's a sports agent. What agent would ever lie to their client? Now if his name was Simmy Rosenhaus, then I'd worry.

So this DevChat has nothing to do with the ad on the front page about Whatifsports trying to hire a new computer programmer?
(r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 4:53 PM)

No, you don't need an agent for that.

Is there any weight given to taking a bad team and rebuilding it or improving it? I know this might be hard to program, but in real life some coaches have a reputation or reviving dead programs, and it would be good to recognize that here. Would have to probably be done with a comparison of team "strength" (RPI perhaps?) over a coaches tenure and /or compared to before they arrived. This would reward coaches who build programs rather than just hop from one sweet job to another. (groomsie - Hall of Famer - 4:57 PM)

I totally agree groomsie - but it's a difficult facet of a resume to measure in HD. It's very subjective and it has to be compared with someone else's prior work (i.e. another human or the AI). The AI is not a good measuring stick and while real coaches are paid to win or face the possibility of losing their jobs, coaches in HD aren't under the same pressure so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

Does "leaving a team in great shape" matter for hiring purposes? That is, do I get credit for the future success of a team I built? (deberly - Hall of Famer - 4:59 PM)

No.

Will a coach with a bad start ever be able to recover their record enough to make it into DI? For example, I have one world at 68-130, if I go on a tear and win my next 60 games outright, i'd not even be 50% overall. (taloncarde - Hall of Famer - 4:59 PM)

Absolutely - success is based on your prior 4 seasons. What you did 10 or 15 seasons ago is not relevant when making a hiring decision today.

When you are applying for a higher job does the distance between your original school and the school that you are applying to matter at any point? (catch106 - Hall of Famer - 5:04 PM)

No.

I went to the NT in DI 3 straight seasons and my latest season I went to the Final 4. I figured I would have my choice of a lot of major conference teams but there were only about 10 I could of moved onto. I thought I deserved some better opportunities than that don't you think? (kelby_03 - Hall of Famer - 5:04 PM)

Not necessarily - you'd only coached for 6 seasons at that point. While your success is very high, your experience is still relatively low. Most AD's at major schools have minimum experience requirements to go along with a successful resume.

Is there a preset number of wins needed to jump to each level (catch106 - Hall of Famer - 5:06 PM)

No, various games carry more value (e.g. winning conference tournament games carry more weight than regular season games and winning national tournament games carry more weight, etc.) so there is no absolute number of wins but instead the overall success of the program which is what we are measuring.

Is it possible for Simmy to consider a lateral move to be a positive thing? I'm stuck in Alaska and don't recruit particularly well; my record is poor and isn't likely to get better. It'll take me forever to get to DI from here, but every time I look at a DII school, Simmy tells me I should look at DI, even though he tells me all the entry-level DI positions want me to win more. (zlionsfan - Hall of Famer - 5:09 PM)

Simmy will say no - but then again you've been at Anchorage for 5 seasons and St. Lawerence for 3 seasons prior (2 schools in 8 seasons) so you can probably make a lateral move with little to no damage to your loyalty - you've earned it.

Do you really think it makes sense for the athletic directors at mid-major schools to expect coaches at low majors to "show they can dance regularly" before considering them for a job? (jpritchard - Hall of Famer - 5:11 PM)

It says the same thing whether you actually dance regularly or not. The point is simply they have a higher minimum success requirement than what you currently have.

While a PIT appearance does carry weight, ADs are looking for national tournament bids. In terms of equivalence, a National Tournament bid and a PIT Final 4 appearance are pretty close in value.

There are some jobs at like Tulane, Tulsa, and Illinois St. that are harder to get than some major conference schools like West Virginia and Cal. This shouldn't be right. Is it gonna be fixed? (kelby_03 - Hall of Famer - 5:22 PM)

The initial prestige ratings were set based on what the schools had done up to the point we launched HD in 2004. After that, their prestige will fluctuate based on how they do in HD - not in real life. In some worlds, WVU may be easier to get than Tulsa, in others it may be the other way around.

To what extent is a teams recent success impact a schools prestige level / availability in the hiring process? e.g. How much does a schools recent success a factor in their accepting new coaches (dherz_263 - Hall of Famer - 5:25 PM)

It can cause schools to be easier/harder to land but within limits. You'd never see an 0-27 Duke team hiring a DII coach.

Can you give a sample coaching history that shows what it would take to get to an elite school? (rachyla - Prospect - 5:32 PM)

The thing holding coaches back from a Kentucky or Duke is normally not success, it's that those schools require more experienced coaches. For example, this coach could land an "elite" school if he had more experience:
http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/coach_history.asp?uid=124114&wid=3
(you may need to resize your browser)

In the forum I read that consistency was noted as a reason a coach couldn't get a better team. So if you don't make the NT in the past 4 years is it impossible to move up to a top 50 team? (rachyla - Prospect - 5:35 PM)

That's not correct. As was posted earlier, that's a generic response. Please see the resume posted above which had a 12-16 record in season 10.

Coaches are gonna have bad years every once in awhile. Is the promotion process going to continue to have the logic that if you had 1 bad season in your last 4 you have no chance of moving up in DI? If so nobody will ever be able to move up. (cyoung187 - Hall of Famer - 5:36 PM)

No, you can have a bad season - as long as it's not your most recent season you would still be fine assuming your most recent seasons are strong.

How long do you think it will be before we see the powerhouse teams hire coaches? (cyoung187 - Hall of Famer - 5:43 PM)

I think you'll start to see top 30 type teams (Alabama, Georgetown, Gonzaga, Iowa, Marquette, Oklahoma, Purdue, etc.) starting to get filled as soon as next season an most certainly within 2 seasons. I think within no more than 5 seasons, you'll start to see top 10 type teams (Maryland, Michigan St., Syracuse) with human coaches.

Does recruiting success play any role in promotion process? (mjwilson - Hall of Famer - 5:45 PM)

Only indirectly through what you're able to do in the wins/losses column. Recruiting is very subjective. I may be playing a zone and have my top 4 starters returning so I don't need a great scorer but I do need a decent rebounder - it's exactly what I needed but I know I won't get any love from those idiots at CollegiateInsider.com. I shouldn't be penalized for that.

How important is success in the most recent year vs. total years of experience? That is, could it help your job prospects to stay another year before moving up even if you know you are going to have a mediocre season? (cimmy426 - Hall of Famer - 5:48 PM)

In that case, I would recommend moving up if you're able to do it. In real life, often times successful coaches will stay while the getting is good and then move on, leaving the cupboard bare for the next coach.

How much of a negative effect do lateral moves have on your overall resume? For instance, is it a good idea (in terms of the quality of your resume) to move laterally to a better team, despite the loyalty hit you will face? (robinhood410 - Hall of Famer - 5:52 PM)

The problem this poses is that it while it may help the success of your resume, it will (eventually) negatively impact your loyalty. This alone can keep you from getting a future job. So assuming you've not made lateral moves prior, you may have built up enough loyalty 'credit' to get away with a lateral move. This strategy will eventually catch up to you and you'll eventually be locked in (especially at DI) for a minimum of 3-4 seasons at a given school before anyone will talk to you because of your loyalty.

If you've been loyal to this point, it's probably a good resume move. If not, you could be locked in for a long time.

An indirect cause of the frustration with the hiring process is the difficulty getting NT bids in DI. Shouldn't the WCAA Selection Committee give consideration to the fact that it's hard to win games in human-dominated conferences? (jasonrawson - All-Star - 7:02 PM)

No. A big part of the selection process is RPI. If the conference you're playing in is that talented, it should be of benefit to you - that's like Seton Hall asking for an exemption because they play in the Big East.

It seems like current success is the most important thing in moving up. After making the NT two years in a row and then missing once, how important will that one miss be? Is it almost starting from scratch again, since that one miss will carry over another season, while the NT appearances will have lost their value? (nnurmo - All-Star - 7:05 PM)

It's not impossible - if you had a good season this year, last season's 9-18 record combined with national tournament bids the prior 2 years would still be a strong resume.

If you are denied for one job in which SimmySimpkins tells you that you have an outside shot, it is safe to assume that any other job with similar "advice" will give you the same response (denial)? (jsreilly - Hall of Famer - 7:07 PM)

My personal strategy is to try the long shot with my first application. If I get, great. If not, I'll use my 2nd application on a school that's he's giving me more solid responses.

Couldnt u maybe lower the requirements on some major schools to get more people into the game instead of keeping a lot of people at D 3 (wiggle1987 - Veteran - 7:07 PM)

Those coaches at DIII are not wasting their time - they're earning valuable experience points and, as was stated earlier, it's possible to go from DIII to DI.

how important to your credentials are your number of wins, national rankings and/or your teams rpi? It seems as if more weight is given to appearing in postseason play and advancing far. Please discuss the importance/unimportance of all of these factors in relation to each other. Thanks! (jsreilly - Hall of Famer - 7:09 PM)

Number of wins is obviously important, national ranking has very little value, conference tournament championships are important and yes, post-season appearances (both tournaments) are very important with regards to how succesful you are in a given season.

Does experience running a school's "default" offense and defense help at all when applying for the coaching job at that school? (antonsirius - Hall of Famer - 7:11 PM)

No, currently ADs aren't looking at that.

You answered an earlier question referring to "prestige rating." Is there any way to know a school's "prestige rating?" (robinhood410 - Hall of Famer - 7:11 PM)

No, and I'm not sure it matters. Simmy's advice and tone are very good indicators.

When moving up, does the school take in account of your record against Top 25 teams? Would it be better to have a good record but 0 wins against Top 25, or an ok record with a .500 record against Top 25 teams? (democrat - Veteran - 7:12 PM)

Indirectly yes - it's part of the WCAA selection committee process.

What chance would I have getting to D1 with a 170-143 and a D+ loyalty rating? assuming some low level schools are available. Thanks (bob squad - Hall of Famer - 7:12 PM)

Zero. There is not a DI school that would hire a coach with a D+ loyalty.

It seems frustrating trying to get a D1 school. Does that school's record come into play when applying? Meaning a D1 school with a 3-23 record be more applicable to hiring a coach? then a school coming off a 20-10 season? thanks (loneranger - Hall of Famer - 7:13 PM)

See prior answer above.

Will DIII success still factor into the DI hiring process down the road? For instance, I won the PIT, and then subsequently made the NT championship games with players I recruited. Another coach, took some other coaches recruits to the NT in his first year, than left a shell of a team and jumped to DII. If we were to have similar success for a few seasons in DII, and then apply for the same DI job, would DIII success give me a leg up, or would the DII history kind of override the DIII at that point? (bigdiggins - Hall of Famer - 7:15 PM)

It depends on how long ago it was - if you, for example, won a DIII National Championship in season 1 and we're now in season 13, no - that won't help you get into DI. Success is based on your team's performances over the past 4 seasons.

Simmy's advice and tone are very good indicators of what? Surely not if a job is an option...there's like 10 different responses, of which 2 are clear. I don't suppose you are going to reevalute his responses anytime soon? (ebreum - Newbie - 7:16 PM)

Yes, of which jobs are options. I'm not sure which messages you are referring to that are unclear.

To move up to some of the elite programs is it going to require a certain amount of seasons coaching in general or coaching in DI specifically? (kelby_03 - Hall of Famer - 7:16 PM)

Coaching in general but the more time you spend coaching in DI, the faster your experience builds.

I'm assuming each coach has some sort of overall "success" rating/score. Do you ever have any plans to show us that in our own coach's corner? That'd probably head off some of the ugly resume comparison threads in the forums as well. (bspisak - Hall of Famer - 7:18 PM)

We've discussed it but we don't have any plans on doing that. Showing a success rating wouldn't do anything to help people who think they should be rated higher or should have gotten a certain job.

So if you win a National Championship you had better move within 4 seasons or it won't have an affect when your trying to move up? (kelby_03 - Hall of Famer - 7:19 PM)

Yes, you'll get the maximum benefit by making a move the following season. After that, it begins to lose its luster.

I don't know if some1 asked this before but are you more likely to get a better job coming off a national championship yet before that year your team hadn't won more than 5 games in a year, or a coach with constant winning seasons yet no national championships. (democrat - Veteran - 7:20 PM)

It would be better have 4 National Tournament exits than to have 1 National Championship and 3 seasons of 0-27.

If the last 4 seasons are all that are looked at, what is the point of taking on a "project school" other than personal satisfaction? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 7:23 PM)

It might be the school you want to end up at. It could also be in a good conference and they've just had a bad past few seasons. Nobody says you have to jump schools after 4 seasons. Calhoun did ok at UConn...

is there a small chance that you can get jobs that you are getting a negative response for..like if simmy were to say you need more experience, you may still have a 5% chance of getting hired? (simsimpkins - Prospect - 7:24 PM)

No. Listen to Simmy.

Are "negatives" in a coach's history also weighted by whether they were in the last 4 seasons? (dogget - Hall of Famer - 7:26 PM)

I'm assuming you're referring to investigations, players quitting, etc. - no, those stick with you - so if your reputation is dragged down to an F because of booster gifts and a subsequent drive by shooting of one of your players, that may haunt you for more than 4 seasons.

will the number of seasons in a "career" ever be capped? will tdowdy be capable of coaching UNC in Naismith for over 100 seasons? (kcsundevil - Hall of Famer - 7:26 PM)

We have no plans on capping the number of seasons at this time. I'm sure he'll get fired anyway.

Since RPI is so critical to making the NT, how soon will we be able to have input into our non-conference schedule? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 7:27 PM)

I would think within the next few months you'll have at least some level of non-conference scheduling control.

Is there any correlation between a school's prestige and the home-court advantage rating? Can you tell if a school is more highly regarded by it's HCA? (r0b0t - Hall of Famer - 7:28 PM)

It's not a r of 1.0 but yes, there is a good correlation between HCA and prestige.

Can you explain COY selection since it is now a promotion factor? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 7:30 PM)

It's a very, very minor factor but it looks at how a coach does relative to their schedule with certain minimums, e.g. a team of all walkons that wins 5 games will not garner someone COY honors.

This past job application period in Naismith I qualified for all but 40 DI schools. In the last 7 seasons I have averaged 25 wins per year with 6 national tourney appearances and a pit appearace. With continued success on that level, and based upon what is being said here, are you telling me that in2 or 3 seasons I will have ability to land any unoccupied DI job? (AceCards - Hall of Famer - 7:32 PM)

Yes, or at least 99% of them.

Why limit success to the prior 4 seasons? If someone won a championship 7 seasons ago that would still carry prestige and would not go unnoticed in an actual hiring process. While it may have lost its luster it wouldn't be as if it never happened, it seems coaches should get credit for all NT success, even if it loses some value it shouldn't lose all its value after 4 years. (vandydave - Hall of Famer - 7:32 PM)

The amount of actual value it would carry after 7 years would be so negligible that it's not worth including it presenting it to the AD.

When humans populate the best DI schools, will those schools maintain an edge indefinitely (and just fire ineffective coaches) or will those schools' stature rise and fall solely based on performance? (dogget - Hall of Famer - 7:34 PM)

As it is with all the schools, human coached schools prestige levels change based on their performance - but within a given range. Again, an 0-27 Duke team still has the prestige of being in the ACC, Cameron, TV deals, etc.

For a coach with over 4 seasons of experience, do total wins matter at all or is the last 4 seasons success all that matters? (Weena - Hall of Famer - 7:36 PM)

Last 4 seasons is the biggest component - the more you win though, the more success you're having and the more you win the faster you're building experience.

i'm among those who think the hiring process has its flaws but is overall well designed and executed. you're always going to have people with hurt feelings when they don't get a promotion after one or two good seasons. particularly newer players. to give newer folks a better chance for easier advancement, are you planning on opening any new worlds soon? (kcsundevil - Hall of Famer - 7:37 PM)

Currently no, although if we get any promotion from Fox, that may change.

Does applying for jobs and not getting one have any affect on ability to recruit the next season? (sparky10 - Hall of Famer - 7:38 PM)

No.

Why is a coach "rewarded" so much after one big season that includes a tournament appearance, even if they have had single-digit win totals for the 2 or 3 prior seasons? A coach who is steadily producing slightly better teams than the previous year sees very little chance for upward mobility - at least moving within DI. Don't you think this is a bit out of kilter with reality? (netgymrat - Hall of Famer - 7:38 PM)

I don't believe that to be the case at all - prior seasons still carry alot of weight on a resume.

what drawbacks are there in apllying for a school you don't have much of a chance at landing? (cimmy426 - Hall of Famer - 7:39 PM)

Not much - tiny chance it may negatively impact your loyalty rating.

is there any thought of changing the recruiting budgets? What I mean is this. Why should the recruiting budget go up, just because you need more recruits. If the recruiting budget was the same yearly that would prevent coaches from saving up scholarships or releasing players to have more money to recruit a "fab five" or outspend coaches who have less money due to less scholarships available that year. (mirky - Hall of Famer - 7:41 PM)

When talking with actual ADs, we found that the process is based on setting down with the coach at the beginning of the season to determine a budget - part of that budget is set by how many scholarships needed to be filled. If we do make a change to the budgeting process, it would likely be to provide each school with one budget which would be used for everything (paying assistant coaches, scouting, recruiting, sending kids to camps, etc.)

Do different schools value different things when hiring? And if so, is there any way to know if we are a better fit for one than another? (robinhood410 - Hall of Famer - 7:43 PM)

For the most part no, some schools have different levels of tolerance for lower reputations, but they all primarily are looking at your success, experience, loyalty and reputation.