Post by sagytb on Jan 12, 2016 11:57:17 GMT

I am trying to understand why bro Anderson changed the story of the third degree from Noah to Hiram.I know that in the early freemason there were only 2 degrees, and in the FC degree the story was about Noah. the Noachides were the bases to the religion, and i understand that bro Anderson want to unlink masonic tradition from religion.Is it right? any other idea why the story was changed?

Post by peter2 on Jan 12, 2016 22:28:49 GMT

I am not at all sure that it was Anderson that actually made the change. It might be worthwhile discovering in which lodge we first see the 3rd and what was peculiar about that lodge.

It seems to me that the removal of Noah who was raised and the substitution of Hiram who was not raised is most peculiar in a raising ceremony.

I suspect that another group with greater authority introduced its own legend, based on the death of James the Just, brother of Jesus, who was thrown down from the walls of the temple and killed by a blow to the forehead with a fuller's club.

If so, there is an heretical form of Christianity concealed in Freemasonry.

Post by billmcelligott on Jan 15, 2016 3:18:12 GMT

I suspect that the additions were added to create more work and more entertainment for the many new members that were filling the lodges.

In the UK we have two problems one with Lodges that do not have enough members and the ither thise wuth too many. My Lodge we have the Stewatds sitting in line for some 7 or 8 years. We farm work out to keep them actove.

Here , from WIKI is some further research you may enjoy.

According to authors Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight, the prototype for Hiram Abiff was the Egyptian king Seqenenre Tao II, who (they claim) died in an almost identical manner.[18] This idea is dismissed by most Masonic scholars.

In his book The Sufis, the Afghan scholar Idries Shah suggested that Dhul-Nun al-Misri might have been the origin of the character Hiram Abiff in the masonic Master Mason ritual. The link, he believes, was through the Sufi sect Al-Banna ("The Builders") who built the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. This fraternity could have influenced some early masonic guilds which borrowed heavily from the Oriental architecture in the creation of the Gothic style.[19]

The French masonic historian Paul Naudon has highlighted the similarity between the death of Hiram and the murder of Renaud de Montauban in the late 12th Century chanson de geste, The Four Sons of Aymon. Renaud, like his prototype Saint Reinold, was killed by a hammer-blow to the head while working as a mason at Cologne Cathedral, and his body hidden by his murderers before being miraculously re-discovered

Post by peter2 on Jan 15, 2016 10:16:09 GMT

Hiram is from the HR word root,giving us Hiram(2), Hermes, Horus(2), Hercules and Hera - all of them heroes.

The HR root seems to mean "high born" so not a personal name. Even today HRH has its traditional meaning.

For example Huram Rossa (sometimes translated as cheerful rose) was the chief wife of Suleiman the Magnificent (known to Masons as Solomon the Great) See 18th degree and the Song of Solomon.

Here are contemporary portraits of the two.

Hiram Abiff can be translated as "High-born (was my) Father" which is odd because we only refer to his mother as the Widow, never mentioning his father.

This can be matched to Horus (the younger) who was apparently the result of artificial insemination of the Widow Isis (and hence genuinely the son of a widow) and later raised his father Osiris.

This may be the origin of the early 3rd degree with Noah raised by his sons - hence without loss of secrets. But then, how to explain that the new Grand Lodge did not have the genuine secrets. Answer: a brand new legend that put the loss as long ago.

Post by billmcelligott on Jan 15, 2016 18:11:12 GMT

Yes that is all very interesting and Romantic but I was making the case for a more down to earth reason for the expnsion of the ritual.

We have to look at the times in which these things happened and the 16th to 17th Century we see the movement away from the Devine rule of Kings to a more populous society.

freemasonry has always had links with The Royal Society - let us just take a snip from their website The History section.

Advancements and adventure

The early years of the Society saw revolutionary advancements in the conduct and communication of science. Hooke’s Micrographia and the first issue of Philosophical Transactions were published in 1665 alone. Philosophical Transactions, which established the important concepts of scientific priority and peer review, is now the oldest continuously-published science journal in the world.

We published Isaac Newton’s Principia Mathematica, and Benjamin Franklin’s kite experiment demonstrating the electrical nature of lightning. We backed James Cook’s journey to Tahiti, reaching Australia and New Zealand, to track the Transit of Venus. We published the first report in English of inoculation against disease, approved Charles Babbage’s Difference Engine, documented the eruption of Krakatoa and published Chadwick’s detection of the neutron that would lead to the unleashing of the atom.

The leading scientific lights of the past four centuries can all be found among the 8,000 Fellows elected to the Society to date. From Newton to Darwin to Einstein and beyond, pioneers and paragons in their fields are elected by their peers. Current Fellows include Jocelyn Bell Burnell, Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking and Tim Berners-Lee.

omni: In my Lodge the Secretary is a hugh bully along with control issues. if anyone even asks a question he files masonic charges against them. He controls members mostly because they are afraid of him.Apr 16, 2018 1:07:49 GMT

foriamhim: To omni: Grow some balls, that lodge is yours as well as every member in that lodge. If you are right, its not your problem. Nobody likes the ugliness of masonic charges. Light will always illuminate darkness, don't be afraid, be a better man. May 27, 2018 15:37:09 GMT*

foriamhim: Oh, I am a new member and just wanted to say hi...May 27, 2018 15:39:10 GMT