Wallingford wrote:Is it just ME--or has TERESA BREWER been unjustly left out of this company thus far?

Um, I think it's just you. I don't much care for her sound, her choice of songs, or her style. She reminds me of a female Frankie Laine. I don't think she was very big even when she was in her heyday.

Actually, I never thought Frankie was too bad, either.......so WHAT if he doesn't seem the ultimate authority on a woman being a "Jezebel"?

My own favorite disc of his, though, is his father-son duet with little Jimmy Boyd, "Tell Me A Story" (penned by the great Terry Gilkyson). One of my VERY FIRST records: miraculously, I never broke it.

If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day--Paul Simon

I know it's just me but his voice gives me the creeps. Walking My Baby Back Home was about the only thing I could stand by him. On the 40s channel, his early numbers appear to be eliding into Nat Cole's style. But he scoots out of that into his own sound by the 50s.

I may get this CD. I've been enjoying her on XM Radio lately. She was married to Jack Webb of Dragnet fame for a time. Their divorce must have been amicable because he hired her and her new husband, songwriter Bobby Troup (Route 66, Girl Talk,) to play leads in his TV series Emergency! I once saw a bowling tournement on television where the Troups were in the audience. Good looks, a sexy voice and an interest in bowling - what a chick!

I'm with you -- I've missed out on getting her music on CD for some reason. Blew me away when you mentioned Jack Webb -- I thought of that as such an obscure piece of trivia, I didn't think anyone remembered but me and my mother Yes they were a class act after divorcing, and how interesting that they were both among my favorites without my even knowing they were married.

I think of her and her first recording "Cry Me a River" as a single "entity". She described her own voice thusly:

"It's only a thimbleful of a voice, and I have to use it close to the microphone. But it is a kind of oversmoked voice and it automatically sounds intimate."

There is another superb Twofer CD available, remastered albums Calendar Girl/Your Number Please

Corlyss_D wrote:I know it's just me but his voice gives me the creeps. Walking My Baby Back Home was about the only thing I could stand by him. On the 40s channel, his early numbers appear to be eliding into Nat Cole's style. But he scoots out of that into his own sound by the 50s.

*****************
I'm old enough to remember hearing Frankie Laine on the radio. I thought songs such as "Mule Train" and "Cry of the Wild Goose" were fun but kind of frivolous. I did like some of his later recordings, such as "Cool Water", "Moonlight Gambler", and "High Noon".

Y'know, for the longest time I've felt MAE QUESTEL belongs in this impressive company. Even though no CD anthology's yet appeared of her work, she recorded scads of great songs as the voice of Betty Boop & Olive Oyl in the 1930s black-and-white Max Fleischer cartoons.

Go rent out a VHS or LaserDisc edition of the '97 Betty Boop Collection if you need instant proof.......her renditions of "Minnie The Moocher," "I'be Godda Code Id By Dose," "Be Human" (the very first PETA commercial, from 1935.......but shouldn't that be "Humane"??) are sufficient in themselves.

I've always thought the ultimate test of a really good song is: It should still sound good, even when POPEYE AND OLIVE OYL SING IT AS A DUET.

If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day--Paul Simon

Madame wrote:I think of her and her first recording "Cry Me a River" as a single "entity".

I never hear that song that I don't remember one of the spots Jim Henson's Muppets did before they were known as the Muppets and before he was known much less famous, when he had a 15 minute program right after the local news on WRC-TV in DC in the 50s. Indelible. I can't recall if I knew who the singer was.

Madame wrote:I think of her and her first recording "Cry Me a River" as a single "entity".

I never hear that song that I don't remember one of the spots Jim Henson's Muppets did before they were known as the Muppets and before he was known much less famous, when he had a 15 minute program right after the local news on WRC-TV in DC in the 50s. Indelible. I can't recall if I knew who the singer was.

Great quote from London, Madame.

I thought it was so spot-on, who else could describe it but her?

Off topic a bit -- but you know the first thing I think of when someone mentions the muppets? When Rudolph Nureyev was a guest and they did "Swine Lake" with Miss Piggy in full regalia. Laughed myself sick.

Madame wrote: Off topic a bit -- but you know the first thing I think of when someone mentions the muppets? When Rudolph Nureyev was a guest and they did "Swine Lake" with Miss Piggy in full regalia. Laughed myself sick.

Too choice a topic to interrupt this equally choice one. It deserves its own, which I have just put up!

OH--just gotta say that the schlub who's been turning his predominantly-boomer crowd on to the Songbook has now reverted back to his own generation & done a new album of never-before-covered (by him) "classic" rock:link

What's your thought on this?......Lord knows I've heard these tunes more than enough than I wanted to; and as long as people of MY age bracket think there're no greater songs than these, and despite anyone's protestations to the contrary, they'll CONTINUE being shoved down my throat. I just wonder if the Songbook's been just a passing fancy for Stewart & his minions.

If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day--Paul Simon

The only music featuring the voice of Rod Stewart that I ever have and ever will listen to is the music of the Faces. The thought of hearing his gravelly voice attempt to sing overplayed songs--doubtlessly over-orchestrated, to boot--well, I'd sooner listen to the Brandenberg Concertos march their regal way out of the telephone receiver as I'm waiting on hold with the IRS. Or listen to dogs barking incessantly outside my window, which is what I'm doing right now, along with typing this post.

I've just finished getting acquinted with an album first recorded in 1961, and finally now available on CD. Rosemary Clooney - LOVE. This was the LP arranged and conducted by her secret love, Nelson Riddle. So there's kind of some background to this album - and what an album. One of the best albums of torch songs I've ever heard. I was much too young to really like this recording when it was first released (actually, not until 1963, but that's another story). but I really enjoy it now.

Been really getting into Burt Bacharach lately. No greater songwriter in this tradition than Burt. Add Diane Warwick's flawless voice and you have the best that popular music can deliver. Like his predessors he leaned on Jazz for inspiration, but unlike the swing of earlier generations it was Parker, Monk and Jobim that he drew upon.

Just thought I'd help keep this thread going with a little discussion of songs from the Songbook that have, somehow, DIED. Ones that were heard jillions of times when they were written & covered by many an artist, but which you simply DON'T FIND in any of your surroundings anymore (e.g., Muzak, DMX, the Classic-Adult-Comtemp stations).

Some of these, I fear, are ones whose paralysis (if not outright death) was deserved. Case in point: the '64 hit "Pass Me By" (from the film Father Goose), written by Carolyn Leigh and Cy Coleman. The song does live on with those with a bigger-than-average Sinatra or Peggy Lee library, I suppose, but with the rest of us......? As a gradeschooler I heard it countless times (Captain Kangaroo loved to play it--the Lee version, I believe, which was also one of the county DJ's most-favored 45s......played it every stinkin' morning, the old poop did). Can't say I miss it. A good song by any standard, I suppose, but one I never warmed to.

Or "Chicken Fat." Yep, that's the title--written by Music Man composer Meredith Willson, specially for President Kennedy's council on physical fitness. Willson trouper Robert Preston did the official recording; I've never heard it covered. Not surprising: as an overweight kid, I suffered a dad that loved to bait me by reiterating the main line ("Go, you chicken fat, go"........he never memorized the rest of it). It's very PI with many of us. The great DJ Dr. Demento infrequently trotted it out as an oddity on his novelty-song radio program. This aside, though I'll always consider Willson an immensely talented man, I fear his status as a "one-hit-wonder" (one or two other musicals notwithstanding) is rather deserved.

If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day--Paul Simon

Wallingford wrote:
Or "Chicken Fat." Yep, that's the title--written by Music Man composer Meredith Willson, specially for President Kennedy's council on physical fitness. Willson trouper Robert Preston did the official recording; I've never heard it covered. Not surprising: as an overweight kid, I suffered a dad that loved to bait me by reiterating the main line ("Go, you chicken fat, go"........he never memorized the rest of it). It's very PI with many of us. The great DJ Dr. Demento infrequently trotted it out as an oddity on his novelty-song radio program. This aside, though I'll always consider Willson an immensely talented man, I fear his status as a "one-hit-wonder" (one or two other musicals notwithstanding) is rather deserved.

The first time I ever heard "Chicken Fat" was at a big outdoor school event with kids participating in all kinds of fun stuff -- all physical exercise, and extremely clever. I laughed so hard, wondering where that song came from. NOW I know. Thanks!

I'm primarily a fan of instrumental jazz simply because I love to hear the musicans just cutting loose...but I'm getting the feeling (I've sort of been building up to this for a while) that I'm finally ready for The Songbook. It seems like it would be great music for when I just wanted something relaxing to help calm myself from a bad mood....or something melancholy when I've burned myself out on the music I listen to that features raging emotions.

My question is...where do I start? (I know, I seemed to have answered my own question with my previous post ) Surely there's a cheap box set out there somewhere that will let a poor student get a good sampling of the great singers and songs without utterly destroying his wallet...

....just to help solidify Petula Clark more firmly as an interpreter of the Songbook, here's the contents of her You Are My Lucky Star CD:
1. It's Foolish But It's Fun
2. Sonny Boy
3. Zing Went The Strings Of My Heart
4. Alone
5. I Yi Yi Yi Yi
6. Goodnight My Love
7. I Wish I Knew
8. Slumming On Park Avenue
9. As Time Goes By
10. It's The Natural Thing To Do
11. Afraid To Dream
12. You Are My Lucky Star
13. Fascinating Rhythm
14. Memories Are Made Of This
15. Another Door Opens
16. A Million Stars Above
17. Gonna Find Me A Bluebird
18. Long Before I Knew You
19. Love Me Again
20. Lucky Day

She recorded these long, LONG before her string of a dozen #1/Top-20 singles here in the states.....in her native England, she gave new meaning to the term songbird.

If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day--Paul Simon

Harvested Sorrow wrote: Surely there's a cheap box set out there somewhere that will let a poor student get a good sampling of the great singers and songs without utterly destroying his wallet...

That's a tall order. I don't know of any "representative" collection of the Great American Songbook. Ted led me to Jonathan Schwartz, NY's Dean of the Songbook Lore and Keeper of the Flame. He's on XM Radio and grew up with the artists of the Songbook, since his dad was a tin pan alley composer. I listen to him a lot. I also listen a lot to XM Radio's 40s station, which was the dead center of the Great American Songbook era. You might want to plump for the dvd of the PBS documentary on the Songbook hosted by Michael Feinstein, one of the extremely accomplished younger generation keeping the flame alive.

One thing I can tell you straight off: DO NOT BUY Rod Stewart's or Willie Nelson's cds of the Songbook. You need to hear the original artists of the era sing them first before you listen to their raspy whiskey soaked voice stylizations.

I've acquired some albums from newer singers simply because they're easy to find but those two are not among them, I assure you. I think I get a pass on listening to Diana Krall and Madeleine Peyroux...

In any case, I just grabbed some singer names from the thread here and went to Amazon and did some sampling. I decided to drop the 'box set' idea since after some searching I couldn't find anything worthwhile that wasn't expensive, and alas, I no longer have access to XM so I can't use that for sampling purposes. I thought it would be better to search for a combination of something used cheap and with good reviews so I could sample various singers and songs as a whole. I actually find myself in a similar position as you in regards of Billie Holliday, although I'm finding that Peyroux's voice irritates me to an extent too. I think I'll grow into both over time. In any case, in addition to the Chaka album that was listed previously in this thread I've also ordered (after some digging at Amazon) this and this, too.

I also believe there's a copy of The Intimate Ella (just her and a pianist) at a relative's house that I can get my hands on.

I agree. You done good. Start with the King and Queen of the Songbook. Here's an online encyclopedia of the genre you might find useful.

From a lot of listening I did last year, I discovered I like the Tommy Dorsey Frank Sinatra enough to buy the 5 cd set of his two years worth of recordings with Dorsey, The Song is You. While many think his post-Ava stylings are more penetrating and profound, I just prefer the earlier voice. There are tons of Sinatra out there since he recorded almost 2000 songs. I've never heard anything by Ella that I didn't like except some schlock she recorded in the late 60s or early 70s to cover rock songs. Last year I also developed a passion for Dinah Shore's and Jo Stafford's voices and stylings, enough to get the 4 cd retrospective of the latter's career and 3 "Best of" discs by the former. You might like this as well

I understand what you are saying about Madeleine Peyroux. I don't like everything she does. I get the feeling she's deliberately cultivated a vague resemblance, in this case to Billie Holiday. She needs more experience under her belt to sound convincing.

And a concluding observation. You may eventually find yourself drilling down on arrangers, in part because they are often responsible for the distinctive sounds of both singers and bands. I have a few in my stable. E.g. Sy Oliver, who arranged for Lunceford and Dorsey; Axel Stordahl; Johnny Mercer; Frank DeVol. Anything arranged by Nelson Riddle is worth the money. The guy didn't have a coarse or grating or fussy bone in his body. Linda Ronstadt's 3 albums with him (What's New, 'Round Midnight, Lush Life) turned me on to the beauty of the Songbook in the mid-80s. If you can still find them, snap 'em up. You won't be disappointed.

In the mid 1990's The Smithsonian Institution released an American Songbook series of CDs dedicated to specific songwriters. The performances were by various artists from different periods. I have a Hoagy Charmichael collection that is very well chosen. You can find them through Amazon or eBay I'm sure. They all looked something like this one:

There are other songwriter specific collections on the market. I like the recommendation of Linda Ronstadt's recordings with Nelson Riddle - it was quite a pleasant surprise when she performed this music so well. Sinatra in the 1950's concentrated on the Songbook (try "Songs for Swinging Lovers") as did Ella Fitzgerald. Rosemary Clooney, Nat King Cole and Peggy Lee are good bets too.

"The law isn't justice. It's a very imperfect mechanism. If you press exactly the right buttons and are also lucky, justice may show up in the answer. A mechanism is all the law was ever intended to be." - Raymond Chandler

Corlyss_D wrote:From a lot of listening I did last year, I discovered I like the Tommy Dorsey Frank Sinatra enough to buy the 5 cd set of his two years worth of recordings with Dorsey, The Song is You. While many think his post-Ava stylings are more penetrating and profound, I just prefer the earlier voice.

I'll have to look into those recordings. I've found one early recording with the Harry James orchestra featuring Sinatra on vocals but I don't like it that much. The recording as a whole is very.....saccharine. I recall in the past hearing Sinatra singing and finding his voice a bit too beautiful for my tastes (keep in mind that I come from a background of heavy metal and Stravinsky when I say this ), so perhaps I'd heard one of these earlier recordings. Based on what I've heard thus far I do enjoy the darker, deeper tone his voice takes on in the later recordings more.

Corlyss_D wrote:I've never heard anything by Ella that I didn't like except some schlock she recorded in the late 60s or early 70s to cover rock songs.

Interesting...what was the name of that recording, if you can bring yourself to recall it? Being a rock person to a certain extent I can say that I view this as merely a curiosity. Her voice just doesn't strike me as one fit for covering rock songs. Then again, Frank Sinatra covered an Alice Cooper ballad (You and Me) so I guess anything can happen.

Corlyss_D wrote:I understand what you are saying about Madeleine Peyroux. I don't like everything she does. I get the feeling she's deliberately cultivated a vague resemblance, in this case to Billie Holiday. She needs more experience under her belt to sound convincing.

Perhaps that's the problem. There was something distinctly irritating about her voice that I couldn't put my finger on. I thought that perhaps it might have been too....French. There was one song on the third album on which I felt she showed signs of showing off her 'true' voice and I liked that one a bit more. Alas, I cannot recall the name of the song.

Corlyss_D wrote:And a concluding observation. You may eventually find yourself drilling down on arrangers, in part because they are often responsible for the distinctive sounds of both singers and bands. I have a few in my stable. E.g. Sy Oliver, who arranged for Lunceford and Dorsey; Axel Stordahl; Johnny Mercer; Frank DeVol. Anything arranged by Nelson Riddle is worth the money. The guy didn't have a coarse or grating or fussy bone in his body.

Well, I've ran across a few Nelson Riddle (arranged) albums already and yes, they've been great. Thanks for the tip.

Corlyss_D wrote:Linda Ronstadt's 3 albums with him (What's New, 'Round Midnight, Lush Life) turned me on to the beauty of the Songbook in the mid-80s. If you can still find them, snap 'em up. You won't be disappointed.

All three are in print, I'll look into them.

I'll also note that the samples for that Chaka Khan album lied to me. The woman is clearly coming from a soul/R&B background which isn't necessarily bad...she has a passionate, emotional voice, and an IMMENSE range. Clearly a talented singer. And she's backed by the LSO. Unfortunately, she feels the need to show off that immense range in almost every single song. Ugh. Remember jbuck's comment on Streisand being able to restrain herself and not screech out the ending of every song loud as possible but choosing to do so, anyway? Same problem here. Beautiful, wonderful voice, but she flat out refuses to control it. Naturally, the samples cleverly cut thirty seconds out of the middle of each song so you never hear the unncessary vocal acrobatics. Too bad, what could have been...on the other hand, I believe it's helping me to get into Billie Holiday. After sitting through this album in an attempt to let it grow on me I can jump straight to Billie Holiday since I'm prepared for just about ANY other voice when it ends. I think this'll make the transition much easier and make it much easier to appreciate that voice.

Y'know, I always thought it was too bad Linda Ronstadt already named one of her albums Lush Life.....it would'be been a perfect title for a Rickie Lee Jones album!! (Do I get "post of the day," Corlyss???)

Here's another songstress who interpreted the Songbook early on, doing her dues-paying before hitting the big time in '67 while wailing, "Dear God, it must be him!!!" Yep, VIKKI CARR:link

Ms. Carr, for the info of you fellow Yankees, is far more than a "one-hit wonder"........when she abandoned her US career in '75 and became one of the premiere songbirds in the Spanish language, it was our loss. (Come to think of it, she's a marvelous excuse for taking up a second language!)

If I could tell my mom and dad
That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day--Paul Simon

I'm a big fan of Capitol era Sinatra, but otherwise my response to this kind of music is a bit hit and miss. The small group stuff that Billie Holiday did late in her career, with Ben Webster and Barney Kessel, is terrific in some moods, and mostly she's covering song-book standards. Recordings are live (and rough) and her voice past its best technically, but it works for me. I own several Ella song book albums, but they mostly leave me cold. I can appreciate the magnificence of the voice, but the emotional response isn't there.

Dianne Reeves impressed me on the soundtrack of "Good Night and Good Luck" but I downloaded the album and it doesn't stand up on its own. I suspect with a better selection of material she could be great. Patricia Barber (unfairly trashed on another thread) offers rather gloomy, idiosyncratic interpretations of songbook material on "Nightclub" and possibly on other albums I haven't heard (I have albums of her own material but they are something different). Check out her doomy version of "Bye Bye Blackbird" if you're curious.

Dinah Washington can be great (eg "Love for Sale") but tended to major in bluesier material, which doesn't interest me. What I've heard of Julie London and Peggy Lee sounds promising, but I haven't heard enough.

One singer who hasn't been mentioned is Diana Krall. There's a great deal of suspicion about her - she hasn't got a huge voice, she's an anachronism with her leather jackets and long blonde hair, she trades on that breathy, flirty delivery, some people think her piano playing is pedestrian. In summary, a photogenic minor talent making undemanding music for people who don't like music and laughing all the way to the bank.

I see it differently: she has a wonderful, creamy vocal texture, she phrases beautifully, and on the whole selects her material and collaborators with intelligence and taste. She's attractive, but not a beauty like Beyonce or Norah Jones (anyway, since when was sexiness a bad thing?). I've listened to more of her albums right through with pleasure than any other songbook artist except Sinatra. Anyone interested should listen to her versions of "The Look of Love", "Peel Me a Grape" or "How Insensitive".

Research this thread DC--She's been mentioned numerous times--by me--though I salute you for your good taste--IMO, she is today’s premier interpreter of the American Songbook—not to mention her piano playing
t

Research this thread DC--She's been mentioned numerous times--by me--though I salute you for your good taste--IMO, she is today’s premier interpreter of the American Songbook—not to mention her piano playing
t

Apologies, Ted, I thought I'd read through the thread but obviously not carefully enough.

I was unaware until recently that guitarist/singer John Pizzarelli and his wife, singer Jessica Molaskey, host a sindicated radio show called Radio Deluxe dedicated to the great songs. Their website has a list of stations that carry it and several of the shows are available as podcasts for downloading.

"The law isn't justice. It's a very imperfect mechanism. If you press exactly the right buttons and are also lucky, justice may show up in the answer. A mechanism is all the law was ever intended to be." - Raymond Chandler

The reason this came up was because they had just finished playing what amounts to a viola concerto by Hindemith that was not called that (Karl will know the name and I could look it up) which I had never heard, but which was excellent. Then Martin Goldsmith made a rare stumble in his segue when he said "Hindemith made people listen to the viola in new ways, while Orff made people (you could almost hear him thinking uh, uh) listen to the voice in new ways." Yeah, right.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

jbuck919 wrote:The reason this came up was because they had just finished playing what amounts to a viola concerto by Hindemith that was not called that

You must mean Der Schwanendreher, which is indeed a charming work, John.

Cheers,
~Karl

That was it, for sure. You know, Hindemith wrote a couple of organ sonatas, and while they are not awful, they are a bit ponderous. It's nice to hear something of his I can like without qualification.

(For someone who invented the term Gebrauchsmusik, which I know I overuse, he was a composer worth taking seriously, just as is Poulenc, someone I would roughly compare him to.)

Since I'm off topic, those who are really into the GASB will know the song "Long Ago and Far Away" (not the Carpenters version). It was one of the things they just played and in the afternoon's programming was in a class by itself. I looked it up and found out why. It is by Jerome Kern, and the singer was Jo Stafford. Oh.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

jbuck919 wrote:When do I change to the 40s channel on XM? When the classical channel starts up Carmina Burana.

Are you serious? You should listen more often, say, when XM Classics disgorges another Goldberg Variations. Last night they had the Mozart Requiem on the Classics channel, Bach on the Pops, and some Baroque opera on Vox. I bailed to the 40s channel.

Often in the wee hours Vox will play lots of Palestrina, Victoria, Tallis, Byrd, Chanticleer, chant, and other a cappella groups singing music from the Renaissance and earlier. Remember that Regem Cui I asked you about? I've been exchanging emails on its provenance with Father Jerome Weber, RAD's chant expert. Turns out the recording was made in 1952 and won a Grand Prix du Disque (before you get excited, that award is equivalent to a gold record in the US - it's for number of units sold, not for recording merit or excellence).

Corlyss_D wrote:Okay! I've thought up a little pop quiz. Name this tune:

It is very famous as a signture theme. It contains the words "Shubert serenades," it contains a French phrase, and it's from a time when I doubt ten people within hearing range had ever heard a Schubert serenade.

I had to Google it, so I won't give it away. I think the lyric is referring to Ständchen ("Leise flehen meine Lieder") which was a pretty well-known tune. It shows up on early phonograph records in a variety of arrangements (violin solos, salon orchestras, etc.) as well as more-or-less echt Schubert vocal performances.