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Topic: [FantasyCraft] Surgeon Expert Class (Read 3594 times)

Well the Making New Classes thread made it look so easy, so I thought I'd try my hand at bashing together an Expert class.

Turns out it's not easy at all Any chance of some feedback on whether it's hideously overpowered or the check DCs are way out of line? The aim was to make a class that would make the medicine skill a competitive alternative to magical healing, but I'm worried it might be too specialised to be any fun to play.

SURGEON (Expert Class)

The surgeon is the master of the art of medicine, respected in all cultures for his ability to accomplish seemingly supernatural feats of healing armed only with scalpel, leeches and drugs.Party Role: Specialist/Backer.

CORE ABILITYHealing Hands: Whenever you spend an action die to boost any Medicine check then the target heals damage equal to the amount rolled on the action die (special characters recover that many vitality points and heal 2 wounds).CLASS ABILITIESLeechcraft I: At Level 1, you may attempt a Mend check on any character once per scene rather than once per day. In addition you may choose to raise the DC of a Mend check by 5 to heal an additional 1d6 damage with a success.Leechcraft II: At Level 5, you may choose to raise the DC of a Mend check by 10 to heal an additional 2d6 damage.Leechcraft III: At Level 9, you may choose to raise the DC of a Mend check by 15 to heal an additional 3d6 damage.

Medicine Man I: At Level 2, as long as you have access to a doctor’s bag you may spend a full action to produce medical supplies, poison and/or any elixir that does not produce a spell effect, up to a total value of 10 times your Class Level in silver pieces. You may use this ability once per adventure and these consumables must be used before the end of the scene or be lost.Medicine Man II: At Level 7, you may use this ability twice per adventure.

Field Surgeon I: At Level 3, you may spend 5 consecutive full actions to make a Calm or Mend check on an adjacent character. You do not need to be in a peaceful location to make these checks, but the GM may require you to make a Concentrate check as circumstances demand.Field Surgeon II: At Level 7, you may make spend 2 full actions to make a Calm or Mend check.

Man of Learning: At Level 4, each time you fail a Medicine or Investigate check and don't suffer an error, you still succeed as long as the check DC is equal to or less than your Class Level + 20. If several grades of success are possible, you achieve only the lowest possible positive result.

Best Practice: At Levels 4 and 8 you may choose 1 of the following abilities. Each of these abilities may be chosen only once.- Barber-Surgeon: any character who benefits from a Treatment check at your hands has their Appearance bonus increased by 1 for the rest of the scene. You may also make Treatment checks to apply this bonus without treating any condition, in which case the check requires half the usual time.- Plague Doctor: you gain the contagion immunity NPC quality.- Herbalist: poisons and medical supplies you create come with one more use than usual.- Enhanced Interrogation: you may use your Medicine bonus to make Intimidate checks against helpless characters. These checks always count as trained.- Doctor of Philosophy: Acquire 2 additional Interests.

Expert Diagnosis: At Level 6, you may spend a full action to make a DC 20 Investigate check on one character in close quarters. If the target is a different creature type to you, raise the DC to 25. If you succeed your threat range with skills and attacks that have that character as the sole target increases by one until the end of the scene. You may use this ability on any character no more than once per scene.

Bonesetter: At Level 8, you may spend 1 minute to make a Prestidigitation check on any character who has suffered a critical injury in the current scene. With success against a DC equal to the damage of the attack that caused the injury, the injury is healed.

Miracle Cure: At Level 10, you may spend a full action to make a Medicine check to revive a character whose wounds have dropped below 0 in the current scene. With a success against a DC of 10 - the character’s (negative) wounds the target is alive, conscious and sprawled with 1 wound remaining, as well as being sickened until the end of the scene. No character may benefit from this ability more than once per adventure. This ability may not revive characters with -25 or less wounds.

Your core ability shouldn't be number on the dice + 2 wounds I don't think, especially since the normal rules are either or, and you're already getting a bigger bang for your buck, so to speak.

In other threads Morg has mentioned that skill floors [class + 20] should be in 4th slot for expert classes, to keep up 1st level giving something iconic about the class, that can't be gained elsewhere. And to give people a reason to take it beyond "my medicine goes from auto 24 to auto 25".

You've got basic skill mastery as a pre-req, why not build upon that over the course of the class? Perhaps at 2 and 7? Just a thought.

Barber-Surgeon should probably last a scene, or an adventurer [probably the former] to keep with the usual timings in FC.

I'd try put something in there that reduces the check time, at 1 minute its fairly harsh - the Medic expert class in World on Fire has a 3/7 ability that reduces it to 5 full rounds, and then 2 full rounds.

Good work so far though, like you said its possible you might want to try to diversify it a little bit, just to keep it more fun to play. If you want I can take a crack at it [porbably tonight after I get back from my groups FC game], between the both of us we might hit onto something good.

Your core ability shouldn't be number on the dice + 2 wounds I don't think, especially since the normal rules are either or, and you're already getting a bigger bang for your buck, so to speak.

Page 212 has "for each action die spent, the character regains an amount of vitality equal to the action die's result and 2 wounds", so I think I'll leave it as it is. The model was the Rune Knight's core ability that effectively lets you spend the same die twice.

You have made me notice that the summary of the Refresh action on the character sheet in the back of the book has either vitality or wounds though, which is at odds with the description of the action on page 220. One for the errata, I guess.

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In other threads Morg has mentioned that skill floors [class + 20] should be in 4th slot for expert classes, to keep up 1st level giving something iconic about the class, that can't be gained elsewhere.

Yeah, that makes more sense. The skill floor was an afterthought to ensure a Surgeon could be at least as good at medicine as a straight Keeper, but combined with the ability to mend once per scene it's definitely too much at 1st level.

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You've got basic skill mastery as a pre-req, why not build upon that over the course of the class? Perhaps at 2 and 7? Just a thought.

Barber-Surgeon should probably last a scene, or an adventurer [probably the former] to keep with the usual timings in FC.

I'd try put something in there that reduces the check time, at 1 minute its fairly harsh - the Medic expert class in World on Fire has a 3/7 ability that reduces it to 5 full rounds, and then 2 full rounds.

All good suggestions and thanks for the feedback, I've gone and changed a few things around in the original post but I don't feel done with it yet.

And yes, by all means have a crack at it yourself! I like what you've been doing in other homebrew threads so I'd be interested to see your take on the concept.

Your core ability shouldn't be number on the dice + 2 wounds I don't think, especially since the normal rules are either or, and you're already getting a bigger bang for your buck, so to speak.

Page 212 has "for each action die spent, the character regains an amount of vitality equal to the action die's result and 2 wounds", so I think I'll leave it as it is. The model was the Rune Knight's core ability that effectively lets you spend the same die twice.

You're right. I saw refresh on the character sheet and just figured that was how refresh worked [its how it works in spycraft], didn't think to double check the book. Definately should go in the typo thread. In fact I'll post it in there now.

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All good suggestions and thanks for the feedback, I've gone and changed a few things around in the original post but I don't feel done with it yet.

And yes, by all means have a crack at it yourself! I like what you've been doing in other homebrew threads so I'd be interested to see your take on the concept.

I like the changes - the first level gives more a feel of what the class should be doing, and starts you off as a man who is better at his thing that a straight keeper would be. Which is a very good thing in my opinion. There's a couple of things I think would fit in well that could be stolen borrowed from the Medic.

The DC on Miracle Cure is a bit low. At -24 wounds you're looking at DC 34 as a worst case scenario... someone at level 14 has +17 to his skill check just by ranks, plus 2 for BSM that's required for the class, plus attribute bonuses... You'd have to roll abysmally to fail that check. -20 wounds or better is auto pass: Man of Learning means you're set for up to DC 30 by that point. Of course, as a game breaker it should be powerful, just seems like at that point there's not much use in having a check at all...

Logged

When all your problems are nails, all your tools start looking like hammers.

Doublebond

Also, how do Leechcraft and Man of Medicine interact with the Bandage feat? That could be made a lot clearer...

Speaking of Bandage, that would be an good prerequisite.

A better choice, in my opinion. You have the basic skill mastery as a requirement now, but from what I can tell you don't build on it. Bandage you wouldn't have to build on, as it's just one feat by itself.

Also, how do Leechcraft and Man of Medicine interact with the Bandage feat? That could be made a lot clearer...

Speaking of Bandage, that would be an good prerequisite.

A better choice, in my opinion. You have the basic skill mastery as a requirement now, but from what I can tell you don't build on it. Bandage you wouldn't have to build on, as it's just one feat by itself.

You could still build on it - say as the Core ability [just an example] - The Surgeon may use bandage's bonus mend an additional number of times per day equal to his starting action dice. Rather then 1 extra time.

Would need to be worded better but I just finished writing and submitting a 3000 word essay, and my brain has turned to a sorta porridge like substance.

Bonesetter: At Level 8, you may spend 1 minute to make a Prestidigitation check on any character who has suffered a critical injury in the current scene. With success against a DC equal to the damage of the attack that caused the injury, the injury is healed.

Bonesetter: At Level 8, you may spend 1 minute to make a Prestidigitation check on any character who has suffered a critical injury in the current scene. With success against a DC equal to the damage of the attack that caused the injury, the injury is healed.

Me hate bookkeeping!

Jmm, indeed. Why not shift it to the lowest result necessary to cause that type of injury? (Or, if we want to make it harder, the highest result that can cause that injury)?

Logged

When all your problems are nails, all your tools start looking like hammers.

The DC on Miracle Cure is a bit low. At -24 wounds you're looking at DC 34 as a worst case scenario... someone at level 14 has +17 to his skill check just by ranks, plus 2 for BSM that's required for the class, plus attribute bonuses... You'd have to roll abysmally to fail that check. -20 wounds or better is auto pass: Man of Learning means you're set for up to DC 30 by that point. Of course, as a game breaker it should be powerful, just seems like at that point there's not much use in having a check at all...

Good point. Hell a level 14 Keeper/Surgeon automatically succeeds on Medicine checks up to DC 34 anyway. Probably in this case it's best to do away with the check at all and make it a limited-use ability.

In fact now that I look at it, all the Surgeon's special abilities that require checks are trivially easy. I think the core Leechcraft mechanic can be fixed by making it heal extra damage for exceeding the DC by a given amount, rather than straight up raising the DC. That way the minimum degree of success clause on Man of Learning is more of a handicap.

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Also, how do Leechcraft and Man of Medicine interact with the Bandage feat? That could be made a lot clearer...

The intention was that while Leechcraft's per scene Mend checks replaces the standard daily Mend check, any options other options like Bandage or that one Paladin ability that grant extra daily checks would function as normal, potentially allowing you to Mend the same character multiple times in the same scene. I'll add something to clarify that in the ability description.

A better choice, in my opinion. You have the basic skill mastery as a requirement now, but from what I can tell you don't build on it. Bandage you wouldn't have to build on, as it's just one feat by itself.

Yeah, maybe. I thought Healer Skill Mastery fit the concept better since the Surgeon is essentially a skill specialist, but the current build doesn't include bonus feats so Bandage might be more appropriate.

Anyway, looks like I'll have to give some more thought to this. Thanks for the criticisms, all.