Blizzard Responds to Netherlight Crucible Feedback

The Netherlight Crucible is a new feature in Patch 7.3 and players have gotten to experiment with the tool for over a week. Blizzard has responded to some concerns noting that the Netherlight Crucible may feel too similar to the Reforging system and the possibility of respeccing traits.\r\r\rHey guys!\r\rWe\u2019ve been seeing a lot of discussion going back and forth on the Crucible lately, so we\u2019ve had some conversations with the development team and I wanted to pop in and share a few points that came out of it.\r\rRegarding comparisons to Reforging \u2013 Reforging was always a simple, mechanical choice. Players were, at the end of the day, simply replacing their worst stats with best stats on every item that didn\u2019t already have your best stats up to a mechanical limit. The Crucible, by comparison, is only affecting a small subset of items and presents much more varied situations than say \u201cchange 30 Hit Chance into Haste\u201d.\r\rWe\u2019ve also seen a bit of discussion around players desiring the ability to respec the Traits that are locked on the second and third tiers of relics. We feel that the ability to respect Traits would lead to players picking traits based on perfect optimization for any given situation, such as leaving a raid to change to AoE-centric traits for the next fight during raid progression. While we feel that\u2019s a nuisance in itself, this would also make the system feel like a watered-down version of talent rows, and would undermine the choice that is made when selecting your Relic Traits.\r\rThat being said, Relics are items and will be replaced; we do expect players to make choices and experiment with this system. Since there is still new content ahead of us in Antorus, better Relics will be available and players who make choices they may not like now will have the opportunity to get new Relics before long with a potentially new set of Trait choices.\r\rAs a note, we are also fine with the current state that Relics Soulbind on inspection in the Crucible. We believe the alternative of everyone porting in and out of the raid to pass the relic around and see who it\u2019s best for is far, far worse. Players are smart and will be able to make educated decisions based on the information that\u2019s available to them. As I said, we do expect experimentation however.\r\rA final note: I saw the post on Reddit laying out three choices for Relics, asking players which one they would pick -\rRelic A : 930 Ilvl BiS main trait, 3rd BiS bonus trait, but forces worst tier 2 crucible trait\rRelic B : 915 ilvl BiS main and bonus trait and 2nd BiS crucible tier 2 trait\rRelic C : 940 ilvl 2nd and 4th BiS traits and BiS crucible tier 2 trait.\rThe poster responded by saying the only way to know is to sim it. If you\u2019re generally a player who simulates gear upgrades to make decisions, you\u2019re probably going to do that anyway, and that\u2019s fine. If you\u2019re a player going off basic guidelines such as \u201cI play a fire mage so I want Critical Strike\u201d you will get by as you always do in this situation and pick what you think is best for your particular class or spec. \r\rThanks for all the feedback on the topic so far, I\u2019ll be on the lookout for future discussions, as always.\r\rCheck out Wowhead's crucible guides if you need assistance picking traits:\r\r\rBlood Death Knight \rArcane Mage \rAssassination Rogue \r\r\rFrost Death Knight\rFire Mage \rOutlaw Rogue\r\r\rUnholy Death Knight\rFrost Mage \rSubtlety Rogue\r\r\rHavoc Demon Hunter\rBrewmaster Monk\r Elemental Shaman\r\r\rVengeance Demon Hunter\rMistweaver Monk\rEnhancement Shaman\r\r\rBalance Druid\rWindwalker Monk \rRestoration Shaman\r\r\rFeral Druid\rHoly Paladin\rAffliction Warlock\r\r\rGuardian Druid \rProtection Paladin\rDemonology Warlock\r\r\rRestoration Druid\rRetribution Paladin\rDestruction Warlock\r\r\rBeast Mastery Hunter\rDiscipline Priest\rArms Warrior\r\r\rMarksmanship Hunter \rHoly Priest\rFury Warrior\r\r\rSurvival Hunter \rShadow Priest\rProtection Warrior\r\r

Comentarios

Comentario de Spl4sh3r

In the situation with the Relic A, B and C wouldn't that mean you take the 940? Because Weapon DPS means higher DPS in general?

Comentario de jaldaan

on 2017-09-21T18:48:00-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.

Comentario de jordanclock

on 2017-09-21T18:48:35-05:00

They can say whatever they want on how it is different from reforging (when it really isn't), but I haven't seen a good explanation of why it was necessary in the first place. Did we really need YET ANOTHER RNG gameplay mechanic to play like a slot machine?

Comentario de Aeliel

on 2017-09-21T18:52:41-05:00

In the situation with the Relic A, B and C wouldn't that mean you take the 940? Because Weapon DPS means higher DPS in general?\r\rNot necessarily, it depends on the performance difference between the traits and whether it offsets the ilvl difference or not. There are several specs that will take lower ilvl relics with great traits over high ilvl relics with average-to-garbage traits.

Comentario de Zachen

on 2017-09-21T19:03:42-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.\r\rYou can pretty much count on two hands ANYONE that has the third row unlocked in any capacity at this point. I raid in a well-progressed Mythic guild, and we don't have anyone at 69 points in their main artifact yet. (I'm just about to hit 66 myself, and I've invested into nothing but my main spec for the entire expansion).

Comentario de hakwea

on 2017-09-21T19:11:21-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.\r\rSo because you are in the camp of most people you don't care? I am going to guess you don't care much regardless of what traits you have or have not unlocked.

Comentario de kodora1316

on 2017-09-21T19:13:01-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.\r\rSame :(

Comentario de Eighjan

on 2017-09-21T19:22:27-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.\rHow many characters have got any of their Artifacts to 'Level 75' (or whatever the right terminology is) to be able to fully customise that far... or are even likely to GET that far?\rI can't see that a sizeable proportion of the player base will even see the chance to get that far without the aid of AK55 &\/or endlessly running Mythic+ Dungeons to farm AP to death - at which point they're unlikely to give a... (oops!) care about the fact that they can use the Netherlight Crucible to complete the customisation.\rI'm happy that I can add the extra 15iL to the basic weapon of any of the characters that have ONE point in Concordance in any of their Artifacts (if that IS the opening criteria to do so); past that I couldn't care less as the next Expansion will have launched long before I get far enough to get "75 points spent".\rNetherlight Crucible seems to be a feature of the game for min-max World First! Mythic Raiders to use to eek out that extra minute % point of output to get them that World First!... as long as they have every possible BiS item available to them.

Comentario de DarkAviator

on 2017-09-21T19:26:11-05:00

The rising AK levels will help, so I'm quite sure 75 traits will be reached by most hc\/m raiders by the time antorus is accessible.\r\rAs for the crucible itself: horrible feature in an expansion plagued by way too much rng, they should've just stopped the traits at tier 1.

Comentario de Zombby

on 2017-09-21T19:26:25-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.\r\rHere's the thing: the crucible gives us a new system which is intended to keep us occupied and engaged over the next few months as we get our weapons from 60 to 75 traits. You are not supposed to have it all immediately on release, something some people always seem to expect.

Comentario de Zombby

on 2017-09-21T19:32:00-05:00

Boy I would love to actually care about Netherlight Crucible...if I had the obscenely high artifact level necessary to actually make use of the new traits. I may not be a progression raider, but I've been playing regularly since launch and mostly focusing on one main with one spec, but I only just managed to unlock the first second row trait.\rHow many characters have got any of their Artifacts to 'Level 75' (or whatever the right terminology is) to be able to fully customise that far... or are even likely to GET that far?\rI can't see that a sizeable proportion of the player base will even see the chance to get that far without the aid of AK55 &\/or endlessly running Mythic+ Dungeons to farm AP to death - at which point they're unlikely to give a... (oops!) care about the fact that they can use the Netherlight Crucible to complete the customisation.\rI'm happy that I can add the extra 15iL to the basic weapon of any of the characters that have ONE point in Concordance in any of their Artifacts (if that IS the opening criteria to do so); past that I couldn't care less as the next Expansion will have launched long before I get far enough to get "75 points spent".\rNetherlight Crucible seems to be a feature of the game for min-max World First! Mythic Raiders to use to eek out that extra minute % point of output to get them that World First!... as long as they have every possible BiS item available to them.\r\rAs throughout this entire expansion you are not meant to FARM AP, it's something you accrue over time by performing the activities you enjoy in game. With the AK system increasing XP gains massively you will likely get to 75 around Antorus release \/ progression I would think. You are not meant to have it all obtainable immediately and no one is supposed to be anywhere near 75 traits yet. There is no problem here for people to get worked up about.

Comentario de Eighjan

on 2017-09-21T19:35:34-05:00

As throughout this entire expansion you are not meant to FARM AP, it's something you accrue over time by performing the activities you enjoy in game. With the AK system increasing XP gains massively you will likely get to 75 around Antorus release \/ progression I would think. You are not meant to have it all obtainable immediately and no one is supposed to be anywhere near 75 traits yet. There is no problem here for people to get worked up about.

I'm not saying that 75 trait points should be available to spend, straight away... I'm saying that will many even get to the stage of HAVING 75 Trait points to spend AT ALL before the next Expansion goes live... let alone the final Raid of the current Expansion?

Comentario de piquantpepita

on 2017-09-21T19:38:53-05:00

They can say whatever they want on how it is different from reforging (when it really isn't), but I haven't seen a good explanation of why it was necessary in the first place. Did we really need YET ANOTHER RNG gameplay mechanic to play like a slot machine?

I haven't seen it in a succinct blue post, but I do like Ion's reasoning for the Netherlight Crucible in the 7.3 Q&A, starting at 15:00 (it's about a 5 minute explanation).

Comentario de Wolfrick

on 2017-09-21T19:39:06-05:00

This is really good news, Blizzard i like the way you think, great Ideas and keep to them, don't just change because a few people cry... "LEGION" Amazing work, keep it up ^^

Comentario de Ovahealz

on 2017-09-21T19:42:58-05:00

In the situation with the Relic A, B and C wouldn't that mean you take the 940? Because Weapon DPS means higher DPS in general?\r\rNot for all classes. Warlocks, for example, rely too much on traits rather than weapon ilvl. Same goes for some other classes. I only know locks do because I main one.

Comentario de zomj

on 2017-09-21T20:07:21-05:00

I still want reforging back. I get some much gear that is ruined by having versatility on it...

Comentario de Taizen

on 2017-09-21T20:12:17-05:00

I believe if they're intent on creating these systems (especially if there's high RNG), they should make them exclusively a bonus outside of endgame content such as raids. Say you didn't get optimal traits on your new relic, so what? It has no impact on your ability to contribute to your team. Say you didn't get optimal crucible options, so what? It has no impact on your team. Say you don't yet have those two legendaries with BiS passive bonuses you've been farming since the launch of Legion, so what? You contribute just as much regardless. I'll illustrate why this is a good thing by comparing it to my experience with PvP.

One of the criticized aspects of PvP I've seen these days (likely by those who previously were dominating everything) is that Blizzard has leveled the playing field. It doesn't matter if you're a hardcore with the best gear or a newcomer which still has a few blue pieces, the player power is virtually equal the moment you step into the battleground. This change is the only reason I even attempted to PvP. Legion is the first expansion I sincerely tried this form of gameplay and (an absolute miracle to me) I actually enjoyed it! Beforehand I would be crushed the moment I got within casting range, making me feel absolutely horrid about even the thought of fighting other players. Turns out I'm not that bad when the game isn't favoring those who have more time to farm for gear.

Now I've never raided, but I'm sympathetic to the frustration raiders feel when these mandatory "bells and whistles" get tacked on that are dependent on randomness. I think it would be helpful if those designing PvE encounters would learn from those designing PvP encounters. Success or failure should be mostly dependent on player skill, and slightly dependent on RNG (represented by gear and "skill trees" like the crucible or artifacts) rather than the other way around. A skilled player should always feel like their skill is the most determining aspect of their game experience. An unskilled player should always feel like they are growing and becoming a respectable player. Creating a game where one has to be near "perfection" in order to progress towards "perfection" is a game full of frustrated players with a lot of skill and discouraged players with little skill.

Comentario de SquirePip

on 2017-09-21T20:14:57-05:00

I still want reforging back. I get some much gear that is ruined by having versatility on it...\r\rstop thinking that gear with versatility is "ruined" and you'll be much happier

Comentario de SquirePip

on 2017-09-21T20:18:31-05:00

I believe if they're intent on creating these systems (especially if there's high RNG), they should make them exclusively a bonus outside of endgame content such as raids. Say you didn't get optimal traits on your new relic, so what? It has no impact on your ability to contribute to your team. Say you didn't get optimal crucible options, so what? It has no impact on your team. Say you don't yet have those two legendaries with BiS passive bonuses you've been farming since the launch of Legion, so what? You contribute just as much regardless. I'll illustrate why this is a good thing by comparing it to my experience with PvP.\r\rOne of the criticized aspects of PvP I've seen these days (likely by those who previously were dominating everything) is that Blizzard has leveled the playing field. It doesn't matter if you're a hardcore with the best gear or a newcomer which still has a few blue pieces, the player power is virtually equal the moment you step into the battleground. This change is the only reason I even attempted to PvP. Legion is the first expansion I sincerely tried this form of gameplay and (an absolute miracle to me) I actually enjoyed it! Beforehand I would be crushed the moment I got within casting range, making me feel absolutely horrid about even the thought of fighting other players. Turns out I'm not that bad when the game isn't favoring those who have more time to farm for gear.\r\rNow I've never raided, but I'm sympathetic to the frustration they feel when these mandatory "bells and whistles" get tacked on that are dependent on randomness. I think it would be helpful if those designing PvE encounters would learn from those designing PvP encounters. Success or failure should be mostly dependent on player skill, and slightly dependent on RNG (represented by gear and "skill trees" like the crucible or artifacts) rather than the other way around. A skilled player should always feel like their skill is the most determining aspect of their game experience. An unskilled player should always feel like they are growing and becoming a respectable player. Creating a system where one has to be near "perfection" in order to progress towards "perfection" is a system full of frustrated players with a lot of skill and discouraged players with little skill.\r\rexcept skill still is by far the determining factor and you can raid fine without caring about any of the RNG aspect. The problem is too many players think they are world first caliber and get stuck into the mindset of doing everything world first players do

Comentario de riklaunim

on 2017-09-21T20:26:49-05:00

When looking at relics 930 or lower don't look at third row - by the unlock time you will very likely have a better one (at least before next raid goes out).