MADISON - People in Wisconsin would be able to carry concealed firearms without getting training or state permits, under a proposal debated by lawmakers Wednesday.

The broad legislation would also allow some people to bring guns onto school grounds and lower the penalties on unauthorized people who are caught doing so.

The bill by Sen. David Craig (R-Town of Vernon) and Rep. Mary Felzkowski (R-Irma) goes beyond the state’s 2011 law, which allows concealed weapons but reserves them for trained and licensed residents. Instead, Senate Bill 169 would make Wisconsin a “constitutional carry” state where qualifying people could pack firearms without having to register with the state or pay government fees.

In a hearing Wednesday before the Senate Judiciary and Public Safety Committee, a Democratic supporter of the 2011 law said that by eliminating training requirements this latest measure crossed "one of those lines in the sand."

"I voted for concealed carry," Sen. Lena Taylor of Milwaukee said. "I think people have a right to carry, but I believe that some levels of restriction are appropriate."

Craig and Felzkowski disagreed, saying that concealed carry is already working well in Wisconsin with very low levels of required training. In addition, the state's constitution and laws already allow residents to carry firearms without permits so long as those firearms are not concealed, they said.

"What I can not legally do in the state of Wisconsin is throw a sweater on" over a holstered pistol, Felzkowski said. "That's what we change."

Wisconsin was one of the last states to allow the carrying of concealed weapons six years ago.

Republicans say that since 2011, there have been few problems and some successes from the more than 500,000 concealed carry permits issued. Documenting that statistically is challenging because, unlike hunting licenses, the concealed carry law specifically exempts most state records involving concealed carry permits from the state's open records law.

Currently, 12 states allow concealed carry without permits.

Under Wisconsin law, felons are prohibited from owning or carrying firearms and the bill would not change that. But the proposal would drop state restrictions on owning and carrying a stun gun for anyone who is legally able to own and carry a firearm.

Sen. Van Wanggaard (R-Racine), the Senate panel's chairman and a former police officer, said he was carrying a concealed weapon at the hearing.

"This bill does not say you can't get training," Wanggaard said. "I personally think that if someone is going to carry they should get some training."

The legislation, however, would leave that decision up to the individual.

The proposal also would drop a blanket restriction under current law that prevents people from bringing guns into all police stations, secure mental health facilities and schools. Officials in charge of those places would have the power to ban guns from their properties.

Even if guns were banned from school grounds, people could still bring them there if they left them in their vehicles, though they would need permits to have guns so close to a school because of a federal law. The provision was included so that parents who carry weapons aren’t breaking the law when they pick up and drop off their children at school, supporters say.

On Wednesday, Wanggaard said that Republicans would also be seeking to amend the bill to allow armed permit holders to step out of their cars to access a trunk or car seat as long as they don't leave the school parking lot.

Unauthorized carry of a concealed weapon on school grounds is currently a felony, but under the bill it would carry a civil fine similar to a traffic ticket.

Dan Rossmiller, a lobbyist for the Wisconsin Association of School Boards, said his group opposed the legislation because it would allow more weapons to come onto school grounds.

"The majority of my members believe guns and children are not a good mix,” Rossmiller said.

National Rifle Association lobbyist Scott Meyer praised the bill and said a training requirement was not needed, saying that videos that are available on websites such as YouTube. He said that firearms could help minorities at risk of violence and that in the wake of the Civil War, guns were "one of the great equalizers" for "the blacks."

Taylor, who is African-American, objected to that choice of words, telling Meyer, "Don't say that."

For his part, GOP Attorney General Brad Schimel praised the legislation Wednesday, stopping just short of endorsing it.

"Senate Bill 169 represents a reasonable policy decision by the Legislature and it is not inconsistent with case law which has strengthened this right," Schimel said in a statement. "The Department (of Justice) will carry out its duty as directed by law. My commitment to the Second Amendment cannot be overstated."

While people would no longer need permits to carry concealed weapons in other places in Wisconsin, they would still be able to get them from the Department of Justice if they wanted.

The lawmakers left the permitting process in place because many other states recognize concealed weapons permits from elsewhere. Keeping in place Wisconsin’s permitting system would make it easier for people from here who want to travel to other states.