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I'm glad someone had the balls to post this, in a world that is so blindly pro-Obama. Where minorities identify with him because of the color of his skin and not his policies. I will preface my statements by saying I sit pretty far to the left and that I did vote for Obama.

As someone on the left, I have felt isolated and left in the dust by Obama's presidency thus far. Everyone celebrated when Obama got into office, like their job was done. The fact is we as the American People MUST hold our leaders accountable for their actions. What made me upset is, I stood behind Obama because I felt him most capable to get us out of Iraq immediately. Then he announced that we would be in Iraq until at least 2011. This, to me, is unacceptable. I feel, as an American voter, and a Democrat Party Member, betrayed by Obama. He promised to get us out of this war that has claimed so many young lives, and stands to claim more, to get us out of this unjustified war, in a place we never should have been in in the first place. To end a war that was founded on lies and deception of the American Public. Fact is, we're in Iraq for much longer, even with Obama in office, than we ever should be.

Then to further our efforts in Afghanistan is yet another flexing of our military muscle that is both uncalled for and unneccessary. Fact is terrorism exists in this world, the best we can do is arm ourselves for it. Smoking out Bin Laden from whatever bum**** cave he is hiding in won't end hatred of American policy, there will always be someone willing to blow themselves up to further a radical cause. It's a fact of life. I'll quote one of my favorite TV Shows ever, The Wire, when they talk about the War on Drugs, because it relates so well to our "War on Terror, "You can't call it a war...Wars end."

I'm not saying we should QUIT the war on terror, but we should realize that if people are so desperate to prove a point they will blow themselve up, there's nothing we can do to truly prevent that. The best we can do is protect ourselves, but we also can't live our lives in fear. Fact is, this country is SO ****ed up, little kids starving worse than in 3rd World African countries, single mothers feeding their kids popcorn for dinner, drug addicts giving birth to babies in poverty, there's so much we need to fix here. I thought with Obama in office maybe we'd have someone who cared about OUR people more than some Iraqis, but I guess I was wrong.

George W. Spent 2 billion dollars a day on the war in Irak alone, Afganistan not included in that amount. Now we have to pay for that. He destroyed our economy while he filled his and his homies pockets, by making sure their companies got all government contracts to rebuild Irak. He went to war on lie and the congress bought it out of fear. GWB had smart people around him. They knew how affraid the Americans were after 9/11 and they played that fear card to get what they wanted. Obama was dealt a losing hand. It will take years to get this **** together.

Signed Stimulus Bill (Taking more from tax payers & their children's children's future while also drawing the dollar closer to inflation)

Do you have any idea what to do? It wasn't Obama who sold those sub-prime mortgages. But greedy brokers. All major pension funds -- not only in the US but world wide -- invested in those derivatives. If you let AIG go bankrupt, the insurances that protect those pension funds will vanish into thin air. This would mean an absolute catastrophe for current and future pensioners. OF course I hate to see those ridiculous bonuses just as much as the next man, but from a regulative point of view taxing those bonuses is a delicate matter, to say the least.

However I have the feeling that president Obama has the awareness that there are situations -- and we seem to be in such a situation right now -- in which you can only do wrong, both by acting and by not acting. Still I have the impression that the moral imperative is his guiding principle, which is something I did not have in the last eight years.

In an ideal world I would do many things differently and I am sure this is true for President Obama as well, but I think I don't have to tell you how to end this sentence, right?

Oh yeah, and that comment on inflation: In a situation like this, when economy almost comes to a halt, inflation is the lesser of two evils (cf. deflation). I am sure you have read about Hooverville, Hoover-plaids and how the cuts in Great Depression Germany led to the rise of the NS-regime. Stopping the bail-outs and a policy of tight money just will not do the trick. As much as I believe that it is almost impossible to learn from history, this is an economic lesson rulers have obviously learned (thank God).

I'm glad someone had the balls to post this, in a world that is so blindly pro-Obama. Where minorities identify with him because of the color of his skin and not his policies. I will preface my statements by saying I sit pretty far to the left and that I did vote for Obama.

As someone on the left, I have felt isolated and left in the dust by Obama's presidency thus far. Everyone celebrated when Obama got into office, like their job was done. The fact is we as the American People MUST hold our leaders accountable for their actions. What made me upset is, I stood behind Obama because I felt him most capable to get us out of Iraq immediately. Then he announced that we would be in Iraq until at least 2011. This, to me, is unacceptable. I feel, as an American voter, and a Democrat Party Member, betrayed by Obama. He promised to get us out of this war that has claimed so many young lives, and stands to claim more, to get us out of this unjustified war, in a place we never should have been in in the first place. To end a war that was founded on lies and deception of the American Public. Fact is, we're in Iraq for much longer, even with Obama in office, than we ever should be.

Then to further our efforts in Afghanistan is yet another flexing of our military muscle that is both uncalled for and unneccessary. Fact is terrorism exists in this world, the best we can do is arm ourselves for it. Smoking out Bin Laden from whatever bum**** cave he is hiding in won't end hatred of American policy, there will always be someone willing to blow themselves up to further a radical cause. It's a fact of life. I'll quote one of my favorite TV Shows ever, The Wire, when they talk about the War on Drugs, because it relates so well to our "War on Terror, "You can't call it a war...Wars end."

I'm not saying we should QUIT the war on terror, but we should realize that if people are so desperate to prove a point they will blow themselve up, there's nothing we can do to truly prevent that. The best we can do is protect ourselves, but we also can't live our lives in fear. Fact is, this country is SO ****ed up, little kids starving worse than in 3rd World African countries, single mothers feeding their kids popcorn for dinner, drug addicts giving birth to babies in poverty, there's so much we need to fix here. I thought with Obama in office maybe we'd have someone who cared about OUR people more than some Iraqis, but I guess I was wrong.

I thought your testimony as a betrayed democrat is interesting. I hope most demorats feel the way you do because your 100% right about Obama making promises he clearly can't keep.

People did warn the public about this. many republicans explained during the Presidential race that it's clearly impossible to do what Obama is saying. He promised things left and right from 95% tax cuts to ending the Iraq War.

Now that people are seeing Obama going through a spending frenzy.....the American public is going to hopefully investigate "change".

We need change people.....yea like spending the most money any president has spent within his first months of office.

Two stimulus bills that add up to over a trillion dollars with about 9,000 pork spending in each bill (that means useless spending).

Think about it people.....Democrats voted to pass these bills without knowing anything about them or reading them.

Obama finished the bill and then passed it a few days later....has anyone seen the size of this bill....it's like reading The Bible in a few days....no one accomplshied this so these bills are clearly a blind decision.

Obama is going to have an apporval rating of 30% this year...

He is going to be worse than Bush, sounds crazy at first...maybe....but look what Obama has already done in a matter of a couple weeks.

Obama finished the bill and then passed it a few days later....has anyone seen the size of this bill....it's like reading The Bible in a few days....no one accomplshied this so these bills are clearly a blind decision.

The magic words here are "staff", "excerpt" and "outline" Easier said than done.

We all saw what happened when Lehman brothers went bust. Unfortunately, the Bush government failed to save some money when they should have (in a prosperous period). This is exactly the money the USA should have kept to spend it now in a time of economic crisis.

The magic words here are "staff", "excerpt" and "outline" Easier said than done.

We all saw what happened when Lehman brothers went bust. Unfortunately, the Bush government failed to save some money when they should have (in a prosperous period). This is exactly the money the USA should have kept to spend it now in a time of economic crisis.

What is your alternative?

Rather than give money to the companies, have the government cut that same check divided amongst every Tax Paying American citizen. HOWEVER, make it contingent on the fact that they use the said $ to pay off their mortgages and credit card debt. It'd work out to about 400K per person. That way, the housing companies, credit card companies and banks all get their money back. There would be significantly reduced debt for the American public. If, after you pay off your Mortgage and Credit Card debt, you have money to spend at the end, you can use it for whatever you like. This helps the economy by pumping more money back into the system.

But that doesn't give you the same kind of influence on banks. Bailing them out directly gives you a far better chance to righten what is wrong in the system. It gives you a moral basis to bring the financial market under a control system. Another problem with you plan is that this isn't an American crisis anymore. Since those derivatives (with expected interest earnings) have been resold again and again the amount of money due has been blown out of proportion as well. That is the main problem: the money was never really their. Therefore giving consumers the money to pay back their loans will only cover a fractional amount of money banks owe each other.

But that doesn't give you the same kind of influence on banks. Bailing them out directly gives you a far better chance to righten what is wrong in the system. It gives you a moral basis to bring the financial market under a control system. Another problem with you plan is that this isn't an American crisis anymore. Since those derivatives (with expected interest earnings) have been resold again and again the amount of money due has been blown out of proportion as well. That is the main problem: the money was never really their. Therefore giving consumers the money to pay back their loans will only cover a fractional amount of money banks owe each other.

Yeah but if people are able to pay off their mortgage, pay off their debt, and increase their 401(K) they will be more likely to spend more of their earnings, thereby improving the economy. Small business owners will have less debt and will be more likely to take on new employees (creating jobs), and the businesses will do well because people are going to spend more. This includes spending in foreign markets (buying foreign cars) and tourism both intra- and internationally. If mortgages are paid off, banks will have that money to pay back what they owe each other, and if mortgages are paid off people will be more likely to go ahead and indebt themselves to the banks again.

Ultimately there's no perfect solution at all, there are flaws in both plans. I personally just believe that increasing consumer spending by helping erase personal debt will do this country better, it's two sides of an ongoing debate.

The magic words here are "staff", "excerpt" and "outline" Easier said than done.

We all saw what happened when Lehman brothers went bust. Unfortunately, the Bush government failed to save some money when they should have (in a prosperous period). This is exactly the money the USA should have kept to spend it now in a time of economic crisis.

What is your alternative?

So your basically blaming Bush for everything again and saying that the only alternative is to spend over a trillion dollars in two bills that no one even knows the specifics about???

I watched this film, and I saw the part about the meetings at hotels, etc. But, I didn't see any evidence, other than the words of the conspiracy people, proving the claims made, about Obama being a puppet for "NWO." I also didn't understand what it was all about, it jumped from... oil prices to secret meetings. The Hispanic guy who claimed that oil prices would go up until the NWO could take power said that when the film was made, during the oil crisis, a crisis which subsequently ended.

I do agree that secret meetings are unfair, and that's an issue that needs to be addressed. Obviously, the president is going to be advised by people, especially the powerful and connected. It's always existed. I don't see how you can easily get around it. Maybe some sort of direct democracy would solve that, but that's something that raises other problems, because sometimes the majority would seek to violate the rights of others: majority opinion doesn't make the opinion made the right one.

Small business owners will have less debt and will be more likely to take on new employees (creating jobs), and the businesses will do well because people are going to spend more.

Wasn't overspending the biggest problem in the first place (and still is)? Remortgage your house to buy a new flat screen TV? This is exactly how the American gross national product was artificially bloated. And why? Because economic growth is the golden calf of this type of economy. Global resources are limited, population growth has become a real problem, however we still try to generate more growth. Even though we should focus on a new, more sustainable form of market based economy. Economic principles are no laws of physics. They are man made and can be changed. A first step would be: people only spend what they really have. Otherwise the next bubble is going to burst soon.

Originally Posted by Paul1355

So your basically blaming Bush for everything again and saying that the only alternative is to spend over a trillion dollars in two bills that no one even knows the specifics about???

Well not him personally, but you'd definitely have to walk around blindfolded to miss that,
... it is every governments obligation to save money in prosperous times, something the Bush administration failed to do.
... the Bush administrations laissez faire policies concerning the financial markets have led to financial products that are non-transparent and now turn out to be mere Ponzi schemes. With some form of financial market supervision, a lot of this would not have been possible.
... the first shock waves of this crisis could already be felt in summer 2007.

So yeah, Obama being in office a mere 70 days now and this crisis has been going on for at least 1 1/2 years now, reaching its peak (let us hope so) last autumn, I would definitely say that the Bush administration isn't exactly what I would call innocent.

Wasn't overspending the biggest problem in the first place (and still is)? Remortgage your house to buy a new flat screen TV? This is exactly how the American gross national product was artificially bloated. And why? Because economic growth is the golden calf of this type of economy. Global resources are limited, population growth has become a real problem, however we still try to generate more growth. Even though we should focus on a new, more sustainable form of market based economy. Economic principles are no laws of physics. They are man made and can be changed. A first step would be: people only spend what they really have. Otherwise the next bubble is going to burst soon.

I agree, and if people are going to spend money they don't have to buy a new flatscreen there's no helping them anyway. The problem lies partially in contract law as well. I recently read a case where a woman on welfare decided to buy a new stereo system. Then, when she couldn't pay, she was bailed out by the law because the contract was unconscionable, and the company (not the woman) should have known she couldn't pay. Things like that really bother me.

My point is, if we decrease the debt of small business owners, they will have more money to take on employees and create jobs for people to start earning a decent living. By decreasing unemployment, people will be earning money, and will begin saving and investing, bolstering the economy and aiding banks in trouble. The problem is, people don't want to be told what to buy, and how to spend. You will never get people to agree to only spend what they "really" have, because people just don't want to be told what to do.

Wasn't overspending the biggest problem in the first place (and still is)? Remortgage your house to buy a new flat screen TV? This is exactly how the American gross national product was artificially bloated. And why? Because economic growth is the golden calf of this type of economy. Global resources are limited, population growth has become a real problem, however we still try to generate more growth. Even though we should focus on a new, more sustainable form of market based economy. Economic principles are no laws of physics. They are man made and can be changed. A first step would be: people only spend what they really have. Otherwise the next bubble is going to burst soon.

Well not him personally, but you'd definitely have to walk around blindfolded to miss that,
... it is every governments obligation to save money in prosperous times, something the Bush administration failed to do.
... the Bush administrations laissez faire policies concerning the financial markets have led to financial products that are non-transparent and now turn out to be mere Ponzi schemes. With some form of financial market supervision, a lot of this would not have been possible.
... the first shock waves of this crisis could already be felt in summer 2007.

So yeah, Obama being in office a mere 70 days now and this crisis has been going on for at least 1 1/2 years now, reaching its peak (let us hope so) last autumn, I would definitely say that the Bush administration isn't exactly what I would call innocent.

What I'm saying is that Obama is doing the opposite of saving and spending money in ridiculous amounts. Obvious things can generate economic growth like for example, getting out of Iraq...which won't happen any time soon.

Basically Obama is winging this presidency. He passed two bills without any bi partisanship that he promised to bring. He isn't doing anything he said he'd do during his race. Once again, Obama qualifies as a lying politician. Every republican radio or tv host predicted what Obama would do. Spend, spend, and spend and now we are in 10 trillion dollars of debt. Jiabo from China said that he is worried about his investments with the U.S, if anyone saw that on tv recently. No one in the world trust our market or our country's stability.

And why is every cabinet memeber nominee or whoever he picks winds up having some problem and can't be a cabinet member?

People are turning down the offers to be part of a presidential cabinet! That's bad, everyone in politics wants more power and their avoiding it with Obama.

Doesn't look good people.

Some analyst like Dick Morris have Obama with a 30% approval rating by the end of 2009, which is highly possible if the market stays at a stalemate or worse all year. Others say that the economy will begin to grow by the end of the year or start of next year.

Still Obama is not addressing or resolving any of these big issues...
The War in iraq- he is more focused on Afghanistan than Iraq at this point after deploying 17,000 troops to Afghanistan recently.

Illegal Immigration- one of the scariest dangers out there when you think about how easy it is for any enemy of this country to go into Mexico and cross the border like millions have done.

Prisoners from Guantanamo- These prisoners are being watched by the entire world to see how the U.S is going to respond to the closing of Guantanamo Bay. Obama keeps doing all of these actions to please the liberal public but he is facing with matters of national security. If you put these inmates with other prisoners, either the prisoners will kill easily kill them or the inmates from Guantanamo will spread their hateful Jihad beliefs on American prisoners. Either way it is a lose, lose situation for Obama.

Bailouts- AIG, GM, the list goes on for big company CEO's getting huge bailouts and money that they don't deserve. As the American public watches this and suffers at home financialy, the public order becomes more unrest. Obama is going to dig himself in a deep hole if he keeps bailing out companies that helped trigger the financial collapse. Enough with the bailouts and fire the CEO's and leaders of the companies going bankrupt because 99% of the time it's them putting the money in their own pockets.

The American Dollar- Our currency is now nothing compared the Euro. Businesses are being moved to Europe due to high taxes on small business and because our currency is becoming less valuable every year. Obama has to address this issue and fix it.