iPad 2 Extends Apple's Lead: Apple Will Dominate The Tablet Market For Yearshttp://www.businessinsider.com/tablets-2011-3/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:49:48 -0400Dan Frommerhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d8b566acadcbba7630b0000have gun will travelThu, 24 Mar 2011 10:34:18 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d8b566acadcbba7630b0000
So, please explain why Nokia recently announced their move to Microsoft Phone software!
I have a friend who worked for Nokia for 15 years. He has been to Finland SEVEN times for business. He now is unemployed, looking for a job. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that most of the management at the Nokia facility where he worked (Irving, TX) used iPhones???
He, and all the REALISTS at Nokia KNOW their business is going t=down the tubes!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d8945cb4bd7c8541e010000CGCTue, 22 Mar 2011 20:58:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d8945cb4bd7c8541e010000
I did not have a chance to follow this thread for a few weeks, life interferes with forum addiction.
"If you're trying to say that you don't have the balls to take the bet because you don't know if the iPad model I suggested to the bet is going to be the best selling one - hey - you think I know if the Xoom is going to be the best selling Android tablet?" -- Jhonn
Look who's obfuscating the issue raised in this forum thread. I placed the bet only because a number of posters claimed that the released Xoom is technically superior than the iPad2 and implied that it will defeat the iPad2 (read Carlos postings here). How?
And thus the bet. It was very focused: The Xoom presented and the iPad2. And here you came along changing the issue as framed by others.
So, how did my analysis that the presence of the other versions impact how iPad2 buyers consider other versions, imply that I did not have the balls?
"Bottom line: you either take the OS bet or the model vs. model bet." -- Jhonn
English is not my native tongue, but if you did not understand from my prior response why the OS bet is stupid, let me use a joke by a Stat teacher: In a party a person was explaining about poor people and Gaussian curves (quite a boring party perhaps of statisticians if that was even discussed). Supposedly, one of the wives (yeah sexist and stereotyping too) shared her thoughts: "Oh how unfortunate that 50% are below the poverty line." Or something like that.
The bottom line, I predicted in another forum a few years back when Android was still very new -- to counter Apple diehards crowing about the Apple iPhone lead -- that the Android phones may eventually surpass the iPhone no matter how good the iPhone becomes. Two simple reasons: carrier influence on the dynamics and the law of averages as implied in the stat joke. The latter was also supported by my analysis of the trajectory of Android early growth.
If you do not still understand why I would consider your OS bet laughable, tough luck.
The tablet is a better study of competitiveness because the carrier influence is less significant, even if Xoom and many other tablet makers are trying their best to hoodwink consumers by hiding through the skirts of carriers (at least in the US).
So, here we are with your model per model challenge. Motorola claimed that they will come up with a Wifi only version of their current Xoom model. The Verizon salesman near the Boylston Apple Store, who claims to have both the iPad and the Xoom was into this sales pitch that the Xoom is superior to the iPad. When a customer who stated he really liked the Xoom wanted a no-contract Xoom, the salesman stated that the Xoom Wifi is coming out by the end of this month.
So, to accomodate your challenge, let's make it "iPad2 wifi plus iPad2 wifi+3G" vs "Xoom wifi plus Xoom wifi+3G" whatever equivalent versions each company would have. The versions would refer to the base diskstorage.
The counter offer will integrate what I consider the variable on how the presence of Wifi impacts the purchasing behavior of consumers. Those who like the current Xoom model may also prefer to buy a wifi only model of Xoom, much like many iPad2 potential buyers have already indicated. The inclusion of the wifi only model from both companies would also minimize the influence of carrier-subsidy on the dynamics.
You might cry foul that the Xoom has not come out with the wifi yet, but do not forget that the Xoom had a leg start over the iPad by several weeks. And just to remove that objection, let us consider the start of counting the impact of the Wifi versions only when Xoom comes up with that model.
CGChttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d89451549e2ae950c2b0000CGCTue, 22 Mar 2011 20:55:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d89451549e2ae950c2b0000
I did not have a chance to follow this thread for a few weeks, life interferes with forum addiction.
"If you're trying to say that you don't have the balls to take the bet because you don't know if the iPad model I suggested to the bet is going to be the best selling one - hey - you think I know if the Xoom is going to be the best selling Android tablet?" -- Jhonn
Look who's obfuscating the issue raised in this forum thread. I placed the bet only because a number of posters claimed that the released Xoom is technically superior than the iPad2 and implied that it will defeat the iPad2 (read Carlos postings here). How?
And thus the bet. It was very focused: The Xoom presented and the iPad2. And here you came along changing the issue as framed by others.
So, how did my analysis that the presence of the other versions impact how iPad2 buyers consider other versions, imply that I did not have the balls?
"Bottom line: you either take the OS bet or the model vs. model bet." -- Jhonn
English is not my native tongue, but if you did not understand from my prior response why the OS bet is stupid, let me use a joke by a Stat teacher: In a party a person was explaining about poor people and Gaussian curves (quite a boring party perhaps of statisticians if that was even discussed). Supposedly, one of the wives (yeah sexist and stereotyping too) shared her thoughts: "Oh how unfortunate that 50% are below the poverty line." Or something like that.
The bottom line, I predicted in another forum a few years back when Android was still very new -- to counter Apple diehards crowing about the Apple iPhone lead -- that the Android phones may eventually surpass the iPhone no matter how good the iPhone becomes. Two simple reasons: carrier influence on the dynamics and the law of averages as implied in the stat joke. The latter was also supported by my analysis of the trajectory of Android early growth.
If you do not still understand why I would consider your OS bet laughable, tough luck.
The tablet is a better study of competitiveness because the carrier influence is less significant, even if Xoom and many other tablet makers are trying their best to hoodwink consumers by hiding through the skirts of carriers (at least in the US).
So, here we are with your model per model challenge. Motorola claimed that they will come up with a Wifi only version of their current Xoom model. The Verizon salesman near the Boylston Apple Store, who claims to have both the iPad and the Xoom was into this sales pitch that the Xoom is superior to the iPad. When a customer who stated he really liked the Xoom wanted a no-contract Xoom, the salesman stated that the Xoom Wifi is coming out by the end of this month.
So, to accomodate your challenge, let's make it "iPad2 wifi plus iPad2 wifi+3G" vs "Xoom wifi plus Xoom wifi+3G" whatever equivalent versions each company would have. The versions would refer to the base diskstorage.
The counter offer will integrate what I consider the variable on how the presence of Wifi impacts the purchasing behavior of consumers. Those who like the current Xoom model may also prefer to buy a wifi only model of Xoom, much like many iPad2 potential buyers have already indicated. The inclusion of the wifi only model from both companies would also minimize the influence of carrier-subsidy on the dynamics.
You might cry foul that the Xoom has not come out with the wifi yet, but do not forget that the Xoom had a leg start over the iPad by several weeks. And just to remove that objection, let us consider the start of counting the impact of the Wifi versions only when Xoom comes up with that model.
CGChttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d75a115cadcbbe757280000ipadownloadsMon, 07 Mar 2011 22:23:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d75a115cadcbbe757280000
Dan, I think we should expect to see IPhone in IPad in the next update.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d756a1c49e2aefa3a060000balitaMon, 07 Mar 2011 18:28:28 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d756a1c49e2aefa3a060000
I am anticipating that the next generation iPad or iPad 2 will rule the market as it does for the first generation iPad. It must be an improvement of the previous version. Good job, Apple.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d750a70cadcbbe2400e0000scottawilkinsMon, 07 Mar 2011 11:40:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d750a70cadcbbe2400e0000
Then, Sammy, don't be a hater.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74e9a5ccd1d55032010000arclyteMon, 07 Mar 2011 09:20:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74e9a5ccd1d55032010000
> the different Android versions
There you go, answered your own question.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74d796cadcbbcf38120000kmlxMon, 07 Mar 2011 08:03:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74d796cadcbbcf38120000
@sammy is a half-witted fool. krill is actually making a valid point: a US perspective is not a global perspective by far.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74ad284bd7c88a3b010000JhonnMon, 07 Mar 2011 05:02:16 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74ad284bd7c88a3b010000
This is just like a bully, who finds courage to fight only a single target kid, if the bully is surrounded by his acolytes. Or, kid hiding under the skirt of his mother when he is unsure he could win the fight.
We are talking about tablets, more specifically the Xoom choices (of one, very expensive at $800) and supporting ecosystem from Motorola vs. the iPad2 and supporting ecosystem provided by Apple.
* * * * * * * * * * * *
I thought about not dignifying this apologist rant with an response, but hell, it's the internet.
OK: I'll make it really simple: I WAS talking about tablet OS's sold. Sorry if mentioning Android reminds you of getting beat in the schoolyard. It must be terrible. Would you like to cry now?
But, again: I have absolutely no inclination in any direction whatsoever. If Apple will become the next Microsoft (which is already has in high-end laptops) in every mobile market there is - I have absolutely no problem with it. The wheel will turn again and Apple will fumble with the monopoly just like every one has before it (MS, Nokia, Toyota, you name it). But this is getting way off course. And every time this happens, us consumers will benefit from it in price and service.
Bottom line: you either take the OS bet or the model vs. model bet.
Or you're a widbag.
(Loved your choise of words, btw - did you get to keep your lunch money today?)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74a6b749e2aed104020000JhonnMon, 07 Mar 2011 04:34:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d74a6b749e2aed104020000
Now you're just changing the subject. I will not be buying a Xoom or a Ipad 2. I have absolutely no opinion on the matter, nor am I an evangelizer of any sort. I've owned a couple of android tablets and a first-gen iPad but I liked both OS's almost equally. I wasn't even sure if Xoom will come out with multiple models or just one.
Nowhere in my message did I try to say that Xoom is superior, you just assumed so. Your couple of messages get so off point I don't even know where to start to ridicule them. How crazy can you get over a mobile device? Calm down, man. Most of just don't care that much. Sheez.
My point is that yes, I would take that bet out of sheer interest - but in a way that makes sense. It would seem that you no longer have the balls to do so. Saying that all the iPad models combined will sell more than Xoom is a no-brainer, of course they will. But comparing the whole line of iPads against a single Xoom model.
If you're trying to say that you don't have the balls to take the bet because you don't know if the iPad model I suggested to the bet is going to be the best selling one - hey - you think I know if the Xoom is going to be the best selling Android tablet?
But congratulations on going from the most confident Apple-maniac to a apologist whining victim in just one message, bravo.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d749619ccd1d5fd223f0000chemMon, 07 Mar 2011 03:23:53 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d749619ccd1d5fd223f0000
Eh the iPad2 looks great but in fairness a 12 year old made it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d748a47ccd1d5f021330000PeteMon, 07 Mar 2011 02:33:27 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d748a47ccd1d5f021330000
The big question for me is overseas consumer markets. I think there is so much potential in overseas markets. And it seems that Apple likes to have a lot of control over it's products and what can be used with it's products (see iPhone's history as an example). This does not make it as competitive in developing markets where access and flexibility are essential. Apple fails on both of these accounts in most developing nations. Granted these are developing markets, but I think companies that think more strategically about these countries will dominate in the long run.
Pete,http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d743b2dcadcbbdf220c0000Bargain Outlet Sun, 06 Mar 2011 20:55:56 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d743b2dcadcbbdf220c0000
I really think the Motorala Xoom is picking up some momentum as a viable alternative to the iPad. What are others opinions?
bargain outlethttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d740aaf4bd7c80e24150000CGCSun, 06 Mar 2011 17:29:02 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d740aaf4bd7c80e24150000
Thanks, I stand corrected. And, all the more reason that Xoom, if it is really superior overall to win the "horserace" vs iPad. But, that will not happen, until they come up:
More choices for the diversity of target tablet consumers
More Apps to let the "sensible" decide that it would more than compensate with the 65K Apps lead of Apple
Very much improved ecosystem, not only in the Apps, to support the iPad experience -- iTunes, ease of purchase, available tech support, Apple Store (the brick and mortar(, and features that are not offered by others right now. The expanding distribution system.
Avoiding malwares
etc.
Those are very tall orders. For the Android ecosystem, it would have helped if Google spends more money, staff and resources, to have a head-to-head competition with Apple; but it has not.
When the extreme supporters of Apple were gloating about Apple's iPhone share in 2009, I beg to differ and predicted that the collective Android and other smartphone manufacturers may dwarf iPhone sales. However, the iPhone ecosystem will always be considered by its followers to be superior overall, so they will pay the price. Giving Apple the lions share in profit even if it would lose market share. That is what matters, not the market share.
With increasing diversity of Apple products, Apple has not been willing to cede any potential Apple product consumer. Thus, the aggressiveness of he pricing of the iPad and the MacBook Air.
The fact that when one consumer learns how to use most any other Apple product, once it tried one product, is a very important psychological breakthrough to counter previous FUDs about Apple. This is supported by what I hear from people I know, who got started with the iPod, then chose the iPod touch but still preferred initially their traditional BlackBerries; but some diehard Blackberry users eventually migrated to the iPhone and some actually buying Apple computers and the iPad, even.
I assume Apple is not fudging its data. If this is the case, there are increasing number of non-Apple users buying Macs for the first time in the Apple Stores. The Apple Stores alone would earn long term customers for Apple that has not been match so far, inspite of the attempts of Microsoft to compete with them by setting up near Apple Stores.
CGChttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7404b74bd7c88e21220000CGCSun, 06 Mar 2011 17:03:34 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7404b74bd7c88e21220000
Wow! Just wow!
****************
"One-on-one consumers will want Android and Android will outsell the iOS between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012"
****************
This is just like a bully, who finds courage to fight only a single target kid, if the bully is surrounded by his acolytes. Or, kid hiding under the skirt of his mother when he is unsure he could win the fight.
In a formal debate, everyone will laugh at you and you will not get any points from the more astute judges for going off topic.
We are talking about tablets, more specifically the Xoom choices (of one, very expensive at $800) and supporting ecosystem from Motorola vs. the iPad2 and supporting ecosystem provided by Apple.
The gist of all Xoom arguments is that the alleged technical superiority of Xoom over the original iPad or iPad2 would be sufficient to make it resonate on more consumers. Thus, this should be the reason why consumers would prefer the Xoom over the multitude of original iPad and iPad2 choices and very integrated ecosystem (Apps, support, stores, distribution, etc.) offered by Apple.
My assessment is that for all your bravado and the bravura offered by Motorola it is mere chest thumping of a windbag. There may come a time when some company may provide a more holistic experience than Apple. When that time comes, even I would consider that alternative.
But, that will not happen to affect the cummulative sales by 12 March 2012 and to affect what most consumer who have a need for a tablet -- whether to choose the single very expensive $800 Xoon over the plethora of choices offered by the Apple to meet the diverse needs and desires of its target iPad consumers. I would not even be surprised if Apple keeps the original iPad, as it did with the white MacBook, the said original can beat many of the alledged technically superior iPad killers.
Heck, I consider myself more informed, and does follow reviews. But, it would be impossible for me to know what I would be missing in terms of the superiority of the more costly MacBook Pros over the introductory MacBook Pro, I bought. In fact, since I am not really into games or other CPU hoggers, even the white MacBook might suffice for most of my needs. That is one of the subtle marketing ploys of Apple, they have "cheaper products" that meet the quality their consumers want, but quite often the consumer will chose the next higher one, as much as their pockets could afford -- because the price difference are not so signficant when one considers the longevity of Mac products. I still have working original bondi blue iMac, a 2003 G3 whilte MacBook and my latest MacBook Pro purchase.
So, either you provide a more credible alternative, accept the offered bet if you really have the balls to back your racehorse.
CGChttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73fd9f49e2aedb7f100000CGCSun, 06 Mar 2011 16:33:19 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73fd9f49e2aedb7f100000
So, let me get this straight. Motorola and Xoom evangelizers claim that the Xoom is far superior from the original iPads and the iPad2. And yet, , for many reasons that will be for another discussion, Motorola cannot or decided not to manufacture the choices that Apple provides to a potentially diverse iPad consumers.
Thus, you think it is fair to prove the superiority of Xoom by comparing the entire Xoom product choices (i.e., a very expensive one) vs. ONE of the iPad2 product choices (at least 6 basic with identical but unique variations for both AT&T and Verizon)???
So, you think this is the test of superiority of Xoom?
**************************
"One-on-one consumers will want Xoom and Xoom will outsell the iPad2 (Wi-Fi+3G 16gb MODEL) between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012"
**************************
Wherever have learned and whoever taught you logic or understanding consumer behavior and diversity?
Do you know which iPad or tablet version would resonate to the target consumers? I don't. Apple does not. Only the so-called analysts seem to have the crystal ball, to divine the future and the consumer market but proven time and again to be off-base. This is even more true with the iPad. The acceptability and very strong embrace defied the predictions of bloggers, techies, analysts and Apple/Steve Jobs haters but also the comptetitors. Even those in the minority among pundits who thought iPad would succeed were simply astounded. The average was around 1-2 million. John Gruber predicted 2.5 million, so another who wants to one-up Gruber in the talk show, chose 3 million. Actual sales 15 million in 3 quarters, not one year.
Next time, try to think more logically before you counter a proposition with a better one.
CGChttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73ced4ccd1d55d091d0000Frank CastleSun, 06 Mar 2011 13:13:40 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73ced4ccd1d55d091d0000
Did you miss the fact we already support iOS and a BYOT program. My point is not about consumers buying Apple products as the past few years have shown they are in demand.
My point is you as a consumer wanting to connect your personal liable technology to a corporate environment and having to adhere to corporate policy & security on your device, restrictions applied to it, in the event of some investigation confiscation of your hardware. Add the point that you will be using your personal tech for corporate work and we provide zero incentive outside of the convience of using your hardware of choice we are seeing the bulk of users (over 80% now) saying no thanks - we'll keep our tech seperate from corporate.
BYOT doesn't work well in a large corporate environment as employees just want connectivity without giving up the things I mentioned. Something like Citrix Receiver is likely better solution as all corporate data is in the cloud and secure. Now these type of cloud based solutions are not perfect and usability is often not as clean as using the device natively.
Reality is not many companies have solved this problem. A number will allow email of other devices but email alone is not enough to replace your corporate system (laptop in iPad case). Users quickly want access to more information / applications which brings tigther security and need for more control. Which users really don't like applied to their personal tech. Thus as I've already pointed to the market will once again split into a corporate liable and personal liable segement. Some users who don't require access beyond email / intranet will use BYOT type programs but the bulk who need more will have to use a corporate device as well their own personal device if they don't like said stated security and compliance controls enforced.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73bc8549e2ae6f4b160000ViewRoyalSun, 06 Mar 2011 11:55:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73bc8549e2ae6f4b160000
@krill (a small shrimplike planktonic crustacean ;-))
Comparing the tablet market to the PC market is like comparing Apples to oranges. But since you brought it up, for the past several years the Mac market share has been increasing steadily, while the Windows PC market has been decreasing steadily. Even though Apple is less focussed on Macs than they used to be (most profits come from iPhones and iPads) Apple is the most profitable PC manufacturer in the world.
And thanks for bringing up Android and Nokia ;-)
Nokia sells tons of cheap dumb-phones to the Third World, but the amount of smartphones they sell is WAY below the amount of iPhones and Android phones sold worldwide... and its smartphone share is continuing to drop even further.
As for Android, the only thing that it has going over the iPhone right now is distribution. Just about every carrier in the world sells Android phones. On the other hand, Apple only distributes the iPhone through a limited number of carriers, and so their potential sales are artificially limited. But as we know, Apple is steadily increasing the number of carriers that sell the iPhone.
Example: until recently Apple only sold the iPhone through one carrier in the US... and not the largest carrier either. However, a good way to see the potential growth of iPhone sales, once the iPhone is sold on more carriers, is to look at the ratio of iPhone users to Android users on AT&T (the single US carrier that has sold the iPhone until this year).
You may be sadly surprised to learn that "AT&T has 15:1 iPhone to Android users" (<a href="http://www.slashgear.com/at-will-verizon-iphone-eat-droids-11125728/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.slashgear.com/at-will-verizon-iphone-eat-droids-11125728/</a>). Yes, 15 iPhone users for every 1 Android user... even though AT&T sells several Android phones from well known companies such as Motorola, Samsung, and HTC.
As the iPhone is sold on more carriers to users around the world, you will see less Android phones being sold and (of course) more iPhones being sold.
It's just the way of the world.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a79f49e2aebd3f050000garycoteSun, 06 Mar 2011 10:26:21 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a79f49e2aebd3f050000
Everyone who has been bashing about iPads above probably never owned an iPad before. Buy the top of the line iPad2, try it out yourself and then you will love it that you will wonder why you were bashing it in the first place. If you don't use it, your wife or kids will love you for it. Never know until you actually own one and use it everyday.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a335ccd1d5e603150000RattyUKSun, 06 Mar 2011 10:07:32 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a335ccd1d5e603150000
"One-on-one consumers will want Android and Android will outsell the iOS between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012"
I reckon you will be sorely disappointed. Still haven't heard how the thundering herd is going to outsell the iPad when Apple have tied up 60% of this years displays. I may not be brilliant at math but I don't see how you can outsell if you can't get the components.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a2c94bd7c85115160000RattyUKSun, 06 Mar 2011 10:05:45 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a2c94bd7c85115160000
Nah Xoom shipped a couple of weeks back...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a274cadcbb7d0c2d0000RattyUKSun, 06 Mar 2011 10:04:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d73a274cadcbb7d0c2d0000
He quoted the original transcript verbatim. It was only after it was picked up on that Samsung backtracked...
But I am not defending him. But here's a thought - how many did Samsung actually "sell out" tim?
BTW I've spent quite a bit of time with the Xoom - my initial thoughts still hold. Rushed product empty promises. Next Friday the iPad 2 ships without Flash, same as the Xoom.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70fdb949e2ae801c0f0000GregFri, 04 Mar 2011 09:56:57 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70fdb949e2ae801c0f0000
@Frank Castle
"only very few employees are willing to buy on their own dime." Yeah, right.
Those would be the 15 million iPad owners (and headed for 35 million more this year) and the 100 million iPhone owners (headed for 200 million this year) who already enthusiastically spend their own money for quality tech products, right? The ones who line up for weeks to get the newest model. Try to get your employees to line up for your next upgrade. You will excuse me if I don't hold my breath on that deal.
The real fact is the typical corporate IT department is under serious stress because the pressure for Apple compatibility on their systems, and that pressure is coming from the senior managers, CEO's and Directors, who have Macs, iPhones, and iPads at home and they love 'em. Tell a CEO no and you might have to spruce up the ol' resume, because he knows many other corporations have already solved this problem.
Learn how to successfully integrate mac products into a Unix environment and you will be in high demand for your skills. And with projected sales of 35 million (probably low) the iPad pressure is only going to build to super heated steam pressure on the foot draggers in IT.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70b0bfccd1d5c258070000tim.hobbesFri, 04 Mar 2011 04:28:31 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70b0bfccd1d5c258070000
It is fine to bring a fanboy from the other side to argue against Dan Frommer and you. Faces of the same coin.
Jobs mis-quoted Samsung's CEO. He lied. Argue against it if you can.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70afc1ccd1d53e542d0000bappa1101Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:24:17 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70afc1ccd1d53e542d0000
iPad 2
Gizmodo's new version of IPad ,IPad 2 is an advanced version
from apple on :fms.nu/fKiL5p
It really helps thing to get easier...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70aeb049e2aef161020000JhonnFri, 04 Mar 2011 04:19:44 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70aeb049e2aef161020000
Or, alternatively, we could bet that:
"One-on-one consumers will want Android and Android will outsell the iOS between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012"
How about it?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70ae4acadcbbe15d1c0000JhonnFri, 04 Mar 2011 04:18:02 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70ae4acadcbbe15d1c0000
Why would anybody want to put their money on xoom on a bet that breathtakinly inane?
Xoom is just a one alternative in a varying range of Android tablets.
Would you be willing to modify your bet like this?
"One-on-one consumers will want Xoom and Xoom will outsell the iPad2 (Wi-Fi+3G 16gb MODEL) between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012"http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70aa714bd7c880650b0000CGCFri, 04 Mar 2011 04:01:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70aa714bd7c880650b0000
Correction:
Xoom left the starting line (???) on 4 March 2011, ONE week before iPad2 will go on sale on 11 March 2011. This is an bonus advantage for Xoom.
CGChttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70a8be49e2aee75b060000CGCFri, 04 Mar 2011 03:54:22 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70a8be49e2aee75b060000
Stake your hard money to your racehorse!
Hey Carlos, and others who would stake their money on Xoom,
Xoom advocates claim Xoom is much better technically than iPad 2 because:
it will support Flash (the Adobe software), iPad2 does not have Flash, most consumers want Flash -- not an existing feature of Xoom on shipment
it will support G4, iPad2 does not have G4, many consumers will want to go to G4 -- not an existing feature of Xoom on shipment
it has a better screen has a better resolution screen, iPad has slightly lower resolution screen, consumers want the best screen
it has better camera than iPad2, consumers want better camera
it has greater RAM than iPad2
it has16:9 ratio which is best for movie viewing, while the iPad2 has 4:3 ratio -- most consumers want a movie screen ratio
and other salient features that make the Xoom far superior to iPad2. Therefore, One-on-one consumers will want Xoom and Xoom will outsell (dominate) the iPad2 between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012
Xoom left the starting line (???) on 4 March 2011, almost two weeks before iPad2 will go on sale on 11 March 2011.
I do not have the original iPad, but I have used it several times. From this personal experience, and from my observations talking to people and not paying too much credence on what many pundits claim, it is my gut feeling that the iPad2 will outsell (dominate) the Xoom during the period between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012.
I am not like those charlatan pseudo-analysts, so I do not have and will not make false claims how many the iPad2 will outsell (dominate) the Xoom during the period between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012.
I trust my gut instinct, and will place my money -- equivalent to the price of the high-end 3G iPad3 next year 2012 -- and bet against anyone here who has responded so far and claims:
One-on-one consumers will want Xoom and Xoom will outsell (dominate) the iPad2 between the period 11 March 2011 to 11 March 2012
I am willing, to send my money to Dan Frommer, if he will accept, the total sum equivalent to those who has the guts to place their money on the Xoom. Anyone who would not stake money on their race horse, Xoom, I would call loudmouths, and windbags, simply polluting the internet with their spittle.
Mr. Frommer, would you consider being the arbiter (or whatever) on behalf of your Magazine for this challenge. I am willing to send the check equivalent to the total amount coming from any Xoom evangelizers that respon that must be cashed and deposited in national bank agreed upon. My money and those who accepted the bet must be held in escrow, with you and your Magazine serving as witnesses and guarantors that the total amount will be released to the winner of the bet, immediately upon validation of the actual sales (not shipment) of iPad2 and Xoom between the period indicated above.
I will check next week if there are any takers with enough balls to stake money on their racehorse.
CGC
N.B. I challenged a few of the Xoom evangelizers in another forum, but NO ONE was willing to bet on their racehorse.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70a294cadcbb255e010000JhonnFri, 04 Mar 2011 03:28:04 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70a294cadcbb255e010000
>If a tablet buyer plays with an Android tablet for a few minutes and an iPad for a few minutes, we would expect
>most to choose the iPad. There is simply no reason not to.
Actually, we had Samsung and Apple pads distributed at work a while back and for some reason, the choise was surprisingly often the Samsung Galaxy Tab - and that's not even a "tab" version of Android.
Women in particular seemed to like the size of the Samsung more (ie. handbag-size) and about 25-30% of the guys liked the features of the Android more, especially those who had not owned a iOS product before. I swear I heard the "why do I need and iTunes account to start this up" and later the "where the h*ll are my files" a dozen times from the people using the iPad. Not to mention the earlier user experiences that if an iPad freezes, there is absolutely nothing you can do to it yourself. Nothing. That is something that just can't happen in an work environment.
Of course, this is not a proper scientific observation or a comparison as none of my co-workers paid a penny for them, but I thought of it as funny considering the general "media opinion".
I'd like to hear what does the journalist thinks in particular is better on the iOS than in the different Android versions? For me, "theres just no reason" sounds a bit like the jehovas' witnesses on my door telling me why should I, personally, believe. We'd like facts, y'know?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d703c6749e2ae7c0b060000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 20:12:07 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d703c6749e2ae7c0b060000
Once again Tim brings Weintraub to his defense. The guy's a total fanboy. And Weintraub's not much better.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d703292cadcbb644d010000tim.hobbesThu, 03 Mar 2011 19:30:09 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d703292cadcbb644d010000
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win" -- Mahatma Gandhi
Steve Jobs twisted facts and used an erroneous quotation to try to convince crowds (Dan Frommer included) that all other tablets had no shot at de-throning the iPad in 2011.
Read here: <a href="http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/03/steve-jobs-reality-distortion-takes-its-toll-on-truth/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/03/steve-jobs-reality-distortion-takes-its-toll-on-truth/</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7023a24bd7c84552040000chilled to the boneThu, 03 Mar 2011 18:26:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7023a24bd7c84552040000
in the end the tablet space will be Apple at the high end and Coby and other crap like that at the low end. Xoom, Touchpad, Tab and Playbook will all be forgotten.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d701ff2ccd1d5e3400c0000mediaman1Thu, 03 Mar 2011 18:10:42 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d701ff2ccd1d5e3400c0000
FINALLY... a bit less innuendo and a bit more thinking. One quick point though...
.
........... The ipad2 IS significant to those wanting its particular features. Unfortunately, I myself was disappointed... oh, not in Apple. They did just fine and their interim upgrade was anticipated. I not only like, but prefer features in the competing OSs... (If Apple includes them then Apple will become my favorite... for now).
.
.............However, HP, for example, produces very nice convertible tablet PCs with pen and touch... If they added a Wacom-compatible pen, I'd be VERY interested... Add multi-boot/SD-program loading and I'm even happier. I'd also be happier with a device that I can use outside or even inside but without closing the curtains... Where's the anti-glare screen... even as an option...
.
.............As to this chatter, iOS, webOS, Android 2x, Honeycomb and WP7 each have something unique to offer - and from manufacturers NONE of which invented multi-touch. Other cool techs include Courier (but something real), inkseine, the ray-based phone interface unfortunately absorbed into Google (my apologies to the inventor), augmented reality... thank you Jim Spohrer then of Apple, and so on. Playbook (i.e., the UI)?... no comment because I simply don't know whether they copied or innovated. Oh, and please add a phone... (I'll use an earpiece and not lift the thing to my ear, thank you very much)... and stereo speakers... but only if the device is proposed as a multimedia device (which excludes...?). Finally, for me, options THAT INTEGRATE are a good thing and losing even potential features to cost is less of an issue (my tablet-PC wasn't cheap).
.
.............Apple did a fine job delivering what was expected. However, I'm disappointed that competitors aren't really distinguishing themselves by exploiting even their in-house technologies (including Apple). I might also consider the prospect of entering a dominated product area with after-market returns AT COST if I felt this would facilitate entry. My wish list is above if you care to read it and I have some patience! What I choose to buy that fails to meet my needs/desires is irrelevant... at least for now.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d701c564bd7c83b501b0000DougThu, 03 Mar 2011 17:55:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d701c564bd7c83b501b0000
I think that Apple is designing great products a very vocal percentage likes and defends. Ipad will probably dominate because they worked up from the Ipod and then the phone, then the touch, and now the ipad. Motorola is now doing that with their Droid, Droid X Xoom. It is like having a band. The more fans, the more popular. I wish Steve Jobs well with his health. I have a Viewsonic GTab with a modified Froyo 2.2. Rom on it. I think Tablets are still finding their way and purpose in our lives. Good job Steve and the Apple Devs.
Doughttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7015d549e2ae8969050000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 17:27:33 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7015d549e2ae8969050000
hmmmm. "dated dated dated and lacking several things that Honeycomb does better."
I actually think that Apple is holding it's cards very close to it's chest. What would the point being of tipping your hand going forward when you can deliver the new system when you need to and your competition thinks that it has one upped you.
What I am basically saying is that I think we will see iOS5 talked about just after the Google i/o brouhaha.
Apple got "shafted" at last year's i/o although a lot of that stuff didn't get shipped. We're waiting for some i/o promises even now. Google TV ended up being an empty threat. Vic Gundotra is petty enough and smug enough to try the same approach again this year. I think if he does he will get slapped down by Apple pretty damn quick.
But everything is unknown at the moment... Interesting year. Especially with Verizon CEO's "Apple have some great 4g plans" statement.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d700fd749e2ae6662070000SynthThu, 03 Mar 2011 17:01:59 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d700fd749e2ae6662070000
30 million? Ha!
Apple WILL SELL at least 40 million iPads in 2011.
Cell phones are a completely different market than tablets. Apple has completely sidelined the telcos with the iPad while Moto let Verizon give every user a wedgie to enable wifi.
Apple will rule the tablet space because it already has the ecosystem in place and is not hamstrung by the neanderthal telcos this time.
And btw, Apple is taking 50% of the profit in the entire cell phone market, not just smart phones. They are not really worried about Google being a few points ahead in device activations right now.
I will also be coming back in Jan 2012, to see the article entitled, "What went wrong with Google's tablet strategy?"http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d700d864bd7c8c24e030000SynthThu, 03 Mar 2011 16:52:06 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d700d864bd7c8c24e030000
But Apple did crush the competition in the U.S. and worldwide in the slate market and that's what we are talking about.
The competition has much bigger "next update" problems.
1. They next update won't get them better component pricing so they can actually compete on price with Apple
2. Their next update won't create a gargantuan ecosystem.
3. Their next update won't make Flash any better
4. Their next update won't make Android OEMs any more money
5. Their next update won't make developers any more money.
6. Their next update won't put the Android OEMs in charge of their own OS destiny, they will remain beholden to Google.
7. Their next update won't sell 40 million units in 2011 like Apple is ready to do.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d700c46cadcbb0347040000yowsersThu, 03 Mar 2011 16:46:46 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d700c46cadcbb0347040000
AAPL will need to expand their enterprise sales channel for iPad, but maybe not as much as one would think. It might already be there in the form of the carriers.
The iPad adoption was prepped by the iPhone adoption into enterprise, and that was largely done through the carrier(s). I would expect a lot of iPad enterprise sales would be the 16gb & 32gb 3G models, and those could come thru the carriers.
One growth market will be for enterprise iOS developers (in house) and iOS shops for making those custom business apps.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70082c49e2aec1580e0000SPThu, 03 Mar 2011 16:29:15 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d70082c49e2aec1580e0000
To me big news is price vs competitors.
Love or hate Apple(i am more on the hate side), they make very good products and simple ones. And for the one of the first time, what they provide spec wise is in line with their pricing. Compared to competitors with similar tablets, their price is very similar, if not cheaper, even after adjusting for lesser specs.
I still don't see the use for tablets, so it's hard for me to fully support any tablet anyways.
On the point of tablets not being sold from carriers directly, i think this might change in the future. Again, i am no tablet user, but the selling point is the portability of the object, thus needing 3G network on the move, at least until a whole city goes wifi with decent stability. This is more for professional related use of a tablet, not a consumer use.
At home, i can somehow see it's use for consuming media mostly, but i don't think we are at a point where the mass population will spend on an ipod, an ipad and a laptop to do the same thing, which is to access media in one form or another. I also highly doubt laptop/desktop are going to be replaced, since typing/multi-tasking on a virtual keyboard remains very hard for more than a tweet.
Again, not a tablet user, so i'm probably missing something.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7006b7ccd1d57d3c230000joeuserThu, 03 Mar 2011 16:23:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d7006b7ccd1d57d3c230000
As stated, I don't own the Xoom (or iPad 1) - I just have them to use. Personally, while Honeycomb is NOT "unfinished" anymore than iOS is "unfinished", the lack of apps for Android tablets, as stated, is just sad and would keep me from buying the Xoom as I wouldn, in that case, feel like I'm not getting my money's worth for the tablet. That'll be shortlived as more apps arrive, but until then....
iOS experience - fractionally better overall to me than Honeycomb, but dated dated dated and lacking several things that Honeycomb does better. I care less about things like Flash than I do about my experience, and, at this point, Apple no longer has a commanding lead in my opinion. In fact, it needs to play catch up in some ways. Again, this isn't to me about Flash or whatever (I really don't care that much about Flash).
I also wish the iPad had a widescreen - I'm wondering if the whole "we don't want to be fragmented" thing is going to bite them because of this. Either they'll have to "fragment" or they'll look behind the times with 4:3 screens vs. Android's 16:9.
I was skeptical of the Xoom. But I have to say it's a lot better than I thought it would be. You should try it for awhile if there's anyway you can (a 5 min comparison won't cut it). And if you can do without any apps. Ha!
Despite the iOS/tablet shortcomings, I'll 85% likely get an iPad 2 and cross my fingers that they do more innovation than evolution when it comes to the tablet experience with iOS5. The competition is a lot closer than ever to Apple, but I think Apple still leads (especially in hardware).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6ff98accd1d5fb39100000Fake Tim CookThu, 03 Mar 2011 15:26:50 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6ff98accd1d5fb39100000
Boo-ya!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fef9e4bd7c845480f0000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 14:44:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fef9e4bd7c845480f0000
"Millions of tablets were sold, beginning with Galaxy Tab. SAI will give you more numbers during this year, OK?"
Nope it is you who are quoting figures. Please do the research and post here.
Apple sold 14.8 million iPads last year. Please come up with actual numbers for these competing tablets.
Galaxy Tab? How many? Actually sold. Not shipped.
Xoom? How many? actually sold. not shipped.
Any other shipping tablets? (not the stupid low level stuff that sits in Best Buy going nowhere.)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6feed0ccd1d5a637810000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 14:41:03 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6feed0ccd1d5a637810000
OMG. Too many questions.
I'll bite...
"The only numbers you can have now are about how Androids smashed iPhones."
Except what you guys don't understand is how these markets differ.
Android succeeded because of the way Apple launched the iPhone. The iPhone was a very different handset when it was launched and nobody had an answer to it. Google reworked their RIMM clone OS to be more iOS like and gave it away. The manufacturers and carriers who had no answer to the iPhone could suddenly deliver a product and began to one up each other with shorter and shorter release cycles. This produced a glut of handsets and the carriers did their best to flood the market with anything to get people into contracts. Plenty of handsets were given away for free, while the punters were signing away 2 years of their monthly outgoings to pay for the things.
An awful lot of the activations that are counted by Google are being carried out in the Far East with versions of Android that don't even give Google the kickback for the search results. So a Pyrrhic Victory there.
Now we move to the tablet market. I don't know if you've noticed but the world isn't flush with money at the moment so I don't think the carriers will help the manufacturers sponsor the cost of a tablet with another two year contract. And if they did I don't think that a large number of people will have the free cash to buy tablets in this way.
The problem is that the people who are trying to compete with Apple are adding extra features to a product and by doing so are adding to the cost. I am certain that all the geeks that wanted one want one that does 5 times more than an iPad at a 1/3rd of the cost. Well that's just wishful thinking. If you think it's not wishful thinking how come when every tablet was shown at CES was not given a price? CLUE: They were hoping that they could meet Apple's price. Truth is that they couldn't hit it. Sucks when the costs of reality crashes into the road sign of hope doesn't it?
So we get the first "iPad Killer" the Xoom coming in at 300 bucks more than the entry level iPad "but but but but it has so many extra features" - not important, ironically because although you're paying extra for those features very few of them have been switched on yet. So yes if you hate Apple enough to spend 300 bucks more for a list of features you don't get, go ahead, make your day. Meanwhile those with less anger issues are getting a device that has 65,000 other reasons for buying it.
There will be others. But until they come in significantly less than the iPad they will only sell to the haters. Not a huge market there. What is the point of openness if it doesn't give you choice? Really.
"Probably or Easily? Decide what you me"
That was lost in translation I said Apple will probably sell 30 million tablets this year. The word Easily was added after for emphasis. What I meant is that Apple will easily sell 30 million tablets this year. Maybe as high as 50 million.
I have one question for you. Apple has secured 60% of the touch screen output for the entire year would you like to suggest how these other companies are going to outsell Apple when they only have access to 40% of the screen output? Simple math there. In other words it is not going to happen in 2011. Meet you back here in 2012 and you will still be saying Android FTW or whatever and we'll be into 6 months of iPad 3 sales.
So here's the thing Carlos... Who is going to produce these Android tablets and who is going to buy?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe868cadcbb30400a0000RegReaderThu, 03 Mar 2011 14:13:44 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe868cadcbb30400a0000
On the new iPad, the market says it all.
Over the last 5 days, Apple (AAPL) is up 4.15% vs. copycat Motorola (MMI) is down 12.97%.
The iPad is not a PC, listen to Mr Jobs. It fits between the iPhone and the Mac. I'm completely satisfied with the original iPad, but I will pass it down and order the Lighter, Thinner & even Faster new version, as the current version does get heavy when reading.
Great article!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe64749e2ae15351d0000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 14:04:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe64749e2ae15351d0000
"Apple will sell probably 30 million tablets this year. Easily."
Probably or Easily?
Decide what you mean.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe404ccd1d5da35180000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:55:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe404ccd1d5da35180000
The only numbers you can have now are about how Androids smashed iPhones.
This year you will learn how iPads were eaten alive by Androids.
And I will make you a favor.
I will remember you in January 2012 about this conversation we are having right now, ok?
Please, say to me it is ok for you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe29849e2ae912b3c0000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:48:56 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe29849e2ae912b3c0000
Millions of tablets were sold, beginning with Galaxy Tab.
SAI will give you more numbers during this year, OK?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe189ccd1d5f035180000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:44:25 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe189ccd1d5f035180000
I appreciate you are reading my posts.
Next time, use it to learn something.
By the way, are you convinced that iPad2 is an upgrade or you are ALSO waiting for iPad2.5 or iPad3 or iOS5?
Are you also confident about iPad dominating the market for years or you learned something with Android x iPhone?
Please, don't write the word "shit" on your posts or else people may thinking you are getting out of arguments.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe09e4bd7c81f46240000Frank CastleThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe09e4bd7c81f46240000
I have never said they cannot extend nor that they have no chance. I am speaking from someone front line in IT who support mobility everyday and there are known gaps with support iOS from an enterprise perspective. So if Apple wants to get major traction in this segement they will need to do more work as for some the gaps are a deal breaker.
I discuss this with peers across my veritical almost weekely. Early this year at an Apple office 100 companies were involved in such discussions and the 80% figure was exposed as a outright lie. of the companies attending only 2 (and we were one of them) actively were supporting iOS and deploying it. Many had a very small pilot / key employees testing iOS and no plans beyond that. The things I outlined are major obstacles for corporate to deal with. They are no some nice to have as they are pain points.
I agree with Dan I think you are seeing the beginning of two seperate tablet markets consumer and corporate. I don't think you can say what succeeds in consumer is the delfacto standard for corporate and vice versa. That is my deal. Cut the FUD and kool-aid drivel and lets actually debate this instead of throwing around all the fanboy BS.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe09acadcbb4f3f010000krillThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:26 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fe09acadcbb4f3f010000
What do you think are the best and worst case scenarios for the iPad market share on March 2012?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fdf5f4bd7c82346010000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:35:11 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fdf5f4bd7c82346010000
"- Scoble's argument that it's all about the apps might not be as true as it seems. If most people are only browsing/emailing, then the apps really don't matter as much."
But how do you know. And if true why does the device that only allows you to do that cost more than the iPad?
"If you're someone who is a "Google User" the Android's integration with Google products could be tighter, and that could be a reason to buy. For example, if I want to video chat on Android, I can reach all my friends who are on gchat (by default lots) vs iPad where I need to convince people to buy Facetime on their computers (not a default)."
So they can't use Skype then to talk cross platform then?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fded34bd7c8d545090000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:32:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fded34bd7c8d545090000
"iPad will NOT dominate the market."
Oh I love these kind of comments. Here's the thing. Apple will sell probably 30 million tablets this year. Easily. So how many tablets will these competitors actually sell this year? Numbers please.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fde334bd7c8d145030000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:30:11 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fde334bd7c8d145030000
Oh Carlos. Different week same old shit.
Remind me again how many Android tablets were sold to end users?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fddc7ccd1d53535110000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:28:23 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fddc7ccd1d53535110000
(Scrolling backwards through you comments for all the points)
"The lack of new features and software updates in the iPad 2 actually made life a lot easier for competitors."
Define "a lot easier". Because from where I am sitting it looks like Apple are going to sell shedloads of these.
"And as always, you're only thinking about USA market."
But for the first two weeks that is all the market has. In fact AFAIK the Xoom's not been released anywhere else yet either.
"It is always the next update that will bring awesome stuff."
Oh that is an awesome argument coming from someone supporting the current release of Honeycomb. It is buggy and has some consistency issues... Will that get fixed in "the next update"?
"Cloud media? Next update. Voice recognition APIs? Next update. Maps? Next update. Tabbed browsing? Next update. Better notifications? Next update. Improved multi-tasking? Next update. Over the air apps? Next update."
A list of features that may or may not need to be fixed in an upcoming update. But Apple spent a ton of money on a huge datacenter one assumes that when that comes online we might better grasp what Apple's cloud strategy is, until then it is all speculation.
"Let's wait until the next update to analyse it, then. ;)"
You are under the impression that Apple didn't do enough yesterday to keep the competition at bay, yes? The things is that Apple really are so far ahead they didn't need to do much. I've seen the defense of Honeycomb not having apps at launch by saying that neither did the iPad, except that is revisionist clap-trap as there were over 2,000 iPad optimized apps at launch. Virtually none when Motorola rushed out their "answer".
But it doesn't matter. Why would anyone buy anything other than an iPad 2 next week? The only reason anyone could possibly give is that they simply hate the Apple way and want freedom. That is a fair argument. You want to shell out extra cash to be different. That's your call. Us Mac users did the same thing back in the day so we can kind of understand that. But honestly until the competition stops just trying to list a collection of features in their hardware they won't get it.
The question should be. What can your device do? Why do you need it? Actually, why do you want it? Because I can think of 65,000 reasons for owning an iPad. "But the apps are coming" you will shout. And yes they may be coming but in the short term that is buying a product on a hope and a promise which, being 50 and having had 30 years of buying products on the promise that the next software update will fix it, I don't have time for that shit. Really. When there is one compelling reason to buy an Android device then I might consider it. But at the moment there isn't even one.
"How did Apple crush unit PC sales or Android/Nokia sales worldwide? Ah, right. They didn't."
Two points chucked in at the last minute for a knee jerk defense. Here's the thing. Just because something happened in the past doesn't mean that it will happen again. Apple carved out a profitable niche for itself in computers. I notice you didn't mention iPods where there was little or no competition. Nokia sales have fallen and Apple has taken some of their market share. Nokia will continue to fall now that they are throwing everything away and going with Microsoft (who didn't see that coming?). And with Android the jury really is still out. Giving away an OS will sure get you market share. But profit is good too. In fact profit is what keeps companies growing.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fddb849e2aee32e040000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:28:08 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fddb849e2aee32e040000
Why are you all so worried about saying iPad 2 is a definite upgrade to iPad???
Looks like not even you are convinced.
Again: If you repeat it a thousand times, it will become true!
Wow!!! It is awsome! You can manage images and make cute sounds!!!
And you have cameras!
And you have 2 cores!
And you (almost) have a HDMI output!
And you can purchase it in white!
And you (almost) have iOS5!
Give up, boy!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fdb58cadcbbd13d080000Sammy the Walrus IVThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:18:00 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fdb58cadcbbd13d080000
aren't you the commenter that keeps saying Apple can not extend into enterprise and you know this because you are in IT?
do you want the contact info of IT guys from the Fortune 100 companies that are employing iPads?
I don't quite understand what your deal is. Sure, there are some drawbacks and negatives of putting iOS devices in enterprise, but you keep saying Apple has absolutely no chance in enterprise, yet something like 80% of Fortune 500 companies are starting iOS deployment.
What am I missing....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd9d94bd7c8f144040000Sammy the Walrus IVThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:11:37 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd9d94bd7c8f144040000
a troll is someone who spreads lies and downright wrong information to incite a response from people.
last time I checked, I have been right on every single non-iPad tablet post on this site, unlike some on this site that swore Motorola Xoom would be a game changer. I am not going to mention names, but I think most people know who I am referring to.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd9b54bd7c8df44060000FYIThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:11:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd9b54bd7c8df44060000
From a pure hardware specs point of view, Xoom is slightly ahead of iPad 2 with a little better screen resolution, more RAM memory, a nVidia graphics chip, future support for 4G and built-in connectivity ports for Micro USB, SD Card and HDMI. It lacks in terms of apps which is a huge factor though, but this probably won't last longer and soon the market will be full of tablet-ready apps.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd96249e2ae5b260d0000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:09:38 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd96249e2ae5b260d0000
"It's pure speculation that iOS5 will solve all the problems with the user experience, such as... making it a tablet OS rather than a "big phone" OS. This is why Google insisted that Android 2.x was not a tablet OS and why, after using the Xoom, it's easy to see why."
Er no. Google insisted that Android 2.x sucked for tablets. 15 million people don't seem to agree with your assessment that iOS actually sucks. Honeycomb is not really finished even now.
"The Xoom is better overall than the iPad 1 in terms of hardware and OS (not in terms of market or apps which, let's face it, is shameful and I'd be depressed if I owned a Xoom and had a few tablet apps after paying so much)."
So what do you do with this hardware currently? Do you feel like a beta tester for Honeycomb? Was it actually worth shelling out the $800?
"But the iOS4 experience is merely "good" on tablets - which is very impressive considering it was really designed for small devices, mind you, but it's clearly lacking and dated compared to Honeycomb (Windows Phone 7 also shows how dated the iOS interface is) - though the neon blue 1980's clock on Honeycomb I could do without; Google is catching up in aesthetics as well. Quickly. But they still have a ways to go!"
Good or good enough? The point being that until April last year there were no tablets that sold so iOS must be doing something right, right?
"and, yes, I have a Xoom and iPad 1 on the desk in front of me, so I do have plenty of experience with both"
So what do you actually do with the Xoom that you cannot do on the iPad? What does all this hardware get you? When is Flash coming? When is the SD card slot actually going to be useful? When is 4G coming? At the moment it seems that Xoom has a list of unique features over the iPad but none are actually in place yet. Or am I just being a fanboy here?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd9594bd7c8d344070000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:09:29 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd9594bd7c8d344070000
P.S.
I promess you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd83749e2ae7d26100000Frank CastelThu, 03 Mar 2011 13:04:39 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd83749e2ae7d26100000
Dan I pray you never decide to get into actual product evaluation as it seems your whole process involved "I spent a few minutes with the device". Anyone that would want to form an opinion on any product would want to use it for at least a couple weeks to a month and get a feel for how it works, what are the flaws / strengths. How does it compare to others on the market etc.
What didn't you like about Playbook? is it the 7" form factor, is the ability to use multiple Apps at once confusing to you? Was it the build quality. I mean you had a few minutes so what jumped out at you beyond. "Hell this isn't made by Apple so it's crap and won't sell".
The problem is their is a strong bias in the tech blog world. It is very rare anyone does an honest evaluation of products thus we do this extensively internally and on our own dime. We're able to cut through the BS and decide does the form factor size matter, does having Flash hinder or help? How does the battery compare? Which Apps are worth while and how do you support / manage them? Is this device purely a consumer device?
Apple showed us nothing yesterday that every other tablet won't have (hardware wise). The Apple EcoSystem matters for the consumer but for corporate it's one more thing to consider and have to control.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd4e349e2ae0626050000Frank CastleThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:50:27 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd4e349e2ae0626050000
Seeing I'm living this right now and support BYOT I will tell you only very few employees are willing to buy on their own dime. Once they read the security and legal terms & conditions many decide not to use their personal technology at work.
So yeah as Dan alludes we currently support personal (BYOT) tablets but are definately also going to have a corporate standard that will be deployed to far more employees then those that leverage the BYOT program. Right now Apple is missing a lot of things we really need to support and manage iPad effectively at a large scale. RIM's Playbook has tremendous potential if we can leverage BES to manage the device as Apple and everyone else has nothing like that. So RIM is in a really good place with 78% of corporations having a BES infrastructure in place. The interest at their conference in May will likely be insane as every company is struggling with how to support tablets.
Apple needs to remove iTunes and enable corporate billing and App management options ASAP.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd3e5ccd1d565330b0000smikolayThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:46:13 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd3e5ccd1d565330b0000
Dan, while you're saying that your description the other night was personal, and you're not a representative user, I think it does hint at a few points that are worth considering:
- Scoble's argument that it's all about the apps might not be as true as it seems. If most people are only browsing/emailing, then the apps really don't matter as much.
- If you're someone who is a "Google User" the Android's integration with Google products could be tighter, and that could be a reason to buy. For example, if I want to video chat on Android, I can reach all my friends who are on gchat (by default lots) vs iPad where I need to convince people to buy Facetime on their computers (not a default).
That being said, I do concede that the form factor might make a difference - weight and build quality could still be a selling point. But the old marketing advice goes never sell on "-est" or "-er" because someone else can become lightest, and someone else can become faster; so these hardly seem like permanents.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd2aecadcbb813c110000JerryThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:41:02 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd2aecadcbb813c110000
I am not a geek who can analyze all these diffeences in tablets. But as a long term consumers of electronics for over 30 years. I am simply giving my money to Apple happily for almost all the products they put out. By the way, I only started purchasing Apple product with the iPhone 3 since 2008. Now I have six iPhones, 1 ipad, two Macbook Pro, 2 iTouch, and lots and lots songs and movies from Apple. I figure out I spent over $12k already for Apple products. And I can't wait to upgrade my iPad and i5? So I don't argue with you guys. I just give my money to Apple and am very satsified.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd29f4bd7c896430e0000krillThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:40:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd29f4bd7c896430e0000
A troll is anybody that says what you don't want to listen? Oh, right.
A hater is anybody that says anything unflattering about Apple? Oh, right. Nobody can ever have anything negative to say about Apple. iOS is not lacking APIs and capabilities Android has been introducing and pushing. No. Let's deny and forget it, since iOS will solve everything soon. "We will have everything they have in a near future".
By the way: when you comment on non-Apple tablet related posts, you are not a hater? Oh, right.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd0cd4bd7c82c430b0000CarlosThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:33:01 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fd0cd4bd7c82c430b0000
Dear Mr. FUDrommer,
you are quite blind!
iPad will NOT dominate the market.
I will save your post and paste it on all the articles you write in January/2012, just to remember you how wrong you were.
I tough you have learned something at Mobile World Congress, but you are still the same.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fcee1ccd1d5ce32010000joeuserThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:24:49 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fcee1ccd1d5ce32010000
It's pure speculation that iOS5 will solve all the problems with the user experience, such as... making it a tablet OS rather than a "big phone" OS. This is why Google insisted that Android 2.x was not a tablet OS and why, after using the Xoom, it's easy to see why.
The Xoom is better overall than the iPad 1 in terms of hardware and OS (not in terms of market or apps which, let's face it, is shameful and I'd be depressed if I owned a Xoom and had a few tablet apps after paying so much). It is not better, I wager, than the iPad 2 in terms of hardware. In fact, I think a foreign company would have to do some serious, serious investing to be able to compete on hardware. But the iOS4 experience is merely "good" on tablets - which is very impressive considering it was really designed for small devices, mind you, but it's clearly lacking and dated compared to Honeycomb (Windows Phone 7 also shows how dated the iOS interface is) - though the neon blue 1980's clock on Honeycomb I could do without; Google is catching up in aesthetics as well. Quickly. But they still have a ways to go!
(and, yes, I have a Xoom and iPad 1 on the desk in front of me, so I do have plenty of experience with both)http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fcbb4cadcbbf13a030000Developer QuizzThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:11:15 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fcbb4cadcbbf13a030000
Which "development tools" are you referring to, specifically? XCode? And it is superior to what exactly? Give us some names so that we know that you know what you are talking about.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fca6b4bd7c8b241190000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 12:05:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fca6b4bd7c8b241190000
Indeed I see the differences between the two articles. One is personal one is business.
But I was right with my general argument. A nice little personal dump on the iPad for the weekend and then pump on the Pad 2 news.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc6cecadcbbaf390d0000Dan FrommerThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:50:22 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc6cecadcbbaf390d0000
I never thought my personal usage had much to do with the broader market. Most people don't have the types of browser/CMS needs I do, and most people don't work at home at night.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc601ccd1d53b300d0000RattyUKThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:46:57 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc601ccd1d53b300d0000
Hmmmm. When you posted last weeks "I never use it" article - which I think got maybe 100k hits or so - did I not say that you'd be back to praise the update come Thursday?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc543ccd1d5cb2f160000djThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:43:47 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc543ccd1d5cb2f160000
SD slot would have been nice.....but that would F up the whole Apple Eco systemhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc2014bd7c81a40010000Sammy the Walrus IVThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:29:49 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc2014bd7c81a40010000
krill is a troll. ignore him/her.
iPad 2 is a definite upgrade from iPad 1 with plenty of new features and iPad is actually doing better outside the US.
haters hate especially when they are feeling the pressure.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc076cadcbbf938020000krillThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:23:18 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fc076cadcbbf938020000
It is always the next update that will bring awesome stuff.
Cloud media? Next update.
Voice recognition APIs? Next update.
Maps? Next update.
Tabbed browsing? Next update.
Better notifications? Next update.
Improved multi-tasking? Next update.
Over the air apps? Next update.
Let's wait until the next update to analyse it, then. ;)
"How will foreign markets be different?"
How did Apple crush unit PC sales or Android/Nokia sales worldwide? Ah, right. They didn't.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fbc9bcadcbb4938030000Harry MarksThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:06:51 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fbc9bcadcbb4938030000
These days, a lot of higher-ups at companies are insisting the IT department supports their from-home devices, like iPads and iPhones. I think many companies and executives will follow suit, prompting serious changes with how a business deals with products that don't come from the "big three".
The solid user experience afforded by the iPad, combined with its power/speed, support for numerous file types and ease of use make it as great a business tablet as it is a consumer one.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fbb14ccd1d5a72e010000Dan FrommerThu, 03 Mar 2011 11:00:20 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fbb14ccd1d5a72e010000
Big iOS 5 software update still expected. What other features would they add that competitors have? 3D?
How will foreign markets be different?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fba5649e2aee7070d0000krillThu, 03 Mar 2011 10:57:10 -0500http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4d6fba5649e2aee7070d0000
The lack of new features and software updates in the iPad 2 actually made life a lot easier for competitors.
And as always, you're only thinking about USA market.