The Java Tutorials Blog (Comments)https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/
Learn Java & Thriveen-usCopyright 2015Sat, 1 Aug 2015 16:40:47 +0000Apache Roller BLOGS401ORA6 (20130904125427)https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/eliminating_confusion#comment-1182989740000Re: Eliminating ConfusionChaosThu, 28 Jun 2007 00:15:40 +0000In general, 1-2-3 stepwise tutorials are good for repeating exactly what is done in the tutorial.
This is what you do in your basement.
In programming, mostly (99%) I don't want to do EXACTLY what is discribed in the tutorial. I want to do something very similiar and need to adapt the knowledge from that tutorial to my needs.
So I prefer narrative tutorials, 'cause they give me the right amount of ideas 'left and right of the road' to use them on other tasks. Instead of one step after another, where you can only follow exactly this road.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1182963077000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?koreyWed, 27 Jun 2007 16:51:17 +0000I think it cruel that you'd even consider forcing newbies to learn the often frustrating process of fighting tools to learn a language. Teach the language independent of NetBeans please. Once they get going, then they can begin the insanity of tool fighting, but at least by then they will understand the architecture of the language well enough it won't burn them out. And here's the obligatory K.I.S.S reminder.
K.I.S.S
https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/eliminating_confusion#comment-1182947489000Re: Eliminating ConfusionJonathan Di TrapaniWed, 27 Jun 2007 12:31:29 +0000I love pictures--screen shots, class diagrams, tables--any visual aid to get the point across helps me out tremendously. For this reason, I think the step-by-step approach is great.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/chat_anyone#comment-1182934029000Re: Chat, Anyone?hiralWed, 27 Jun 2007 08:47:09 +0000sure it is useful... but we would appreciate if some expert answers it... may be define the categories of user...https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/java_language_certification#comment-1182902528000Re: Java Language Certificationbudowa dom&oacute;wWed, 27 Jun 2007 00:02:08 +0000Good article and site. Congratulationshttps://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/eliminating_confusion#comment-1182899946000Re: Eliminating ConfusionMarcelTue, 26 Jun 2007 23:19:06 +0000What about screencast? They use this technique to show like the step 1/2/3 approach.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_and_ides_continued#comment-1182868432000Re: Layout Management and IDEs, continued...varanTue, 26 Jun 2007 14:33:52 +0000As the developer of an open source layout manager, may I suggest that the Swing tutorial at least make a mention of the layout managers, other than what are available in the standard JDK distribution, which in many cases are far easier to use. Of course the choice of what to mention is entirely yours.
Otherwise you will continue to see an article on how difficult it is to use Swing every few months.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/eliminating_confusion#comment-1182814180000Re: Eliminating ConfusionPaulMon, 25 Jun 2007 23:29:40 +0000A step-by-step approach works for me most times when i'm coming to something new (which custom painting would be). If i'm just trying to fill a gap in my understanding or brush up on something i did a long time ago, i don't want to have to step all the way through something just to get the 1 or 2 pieces of information i need. So a good overview of the step-by-step process with the ability to skip to specific steps would probably work OK.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_and_ides_continued#comment-1182813802000Re: Layout Management and IDEs, continued...Paul (again)Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:23:22 +0000Above, you said:
Finally, just to be be 100% clear, we'd like to assure you that we certainly are not making the Swing tutorial (or any other part of the Java Tutorials) entirely NetBeans-oriented, and we will of course continue to provide, show, and explain the code for all the different demos and lessons.
This is belied by the current Swing tutorial, which says:
Note: Due to the painstaking nature of writing layout code by hand, it is strongly recommended that you use the GroupLayout layout manager combined with a builder tool to lay out your GUI. One such tool is the NetBeans IDE 5.5 Matisse GUI builder. The information provided in this lesson is only useful if you absolutely must write your layout code by hand. In this case, and if you do not want to use GroupLayout, then GridBagLayout is recommended as the next most flexible and powerful layout manager.
Please, keep the Java tutorial about teaching us how to write code , and put the NetBeans stuff somewhere else!https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_and_ides_continued#comment-1182808405000Re: Layout Management and IDEs, continued...Riyaz Mohamed IbrahimMon, 25 Jun 2007 21:53:25 +0000Netbeans for swing and Eclipse for resthttps://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/eliminating_confusion#comment-1182804324000Re: Eliminating ConfusionParag ShahMon, 25 Jun 2007 20:45:24 +0000Hi Scott,
Sometime back, I read a blog post by Martin Fowler on duplex books .
Most technical stuff that we deal with can get arbitrarily complex as we get deeper into it.
One approach would be to have tutorials at different levels, with each level abstracting complexity of certain layers. Within the tutorial of a level, the step 1, step 2, step 3 approach would work out very well.
Just an experience I'd like to share with you. Since a few weeks I am in the process of learning JSF for a project. I read some tuorials with the step 1... aproach, but somehow after reading all the tutorials I still had a hard time grasping JSF concepts when I got down to developing components. Off course this is not a fault of the step 1/2/3 approach. Maybe JSF has too many details, and it's tough to remember all of them. Also many details pop up as you write code. But this made me think that something as complex (and ghastly) as JSF would be a very good candidate for the duplex tutorial approach.
Perhaps for simple stuff a single level tutorial with steps would work out just fine, but for complex stuff, especially where the complexity unfolds as one tries to solve bigger problems, a duplex approach would work out well.
--
Regards
Paraghttps://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_and_ides_continued#comment-1182734750000Re: Layout Management and IDEs, continued...KlausMon, 25 Jun 2007 01:25:50 +0000NetBeans rules!
I often tried Eclispe, always failed.
NetBeans is the reason why I started programming Java.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/input_requested_for_how_to#comment-1182681356000Re: Input Requested for How to Use Trees PageViswanathSun, 24 Jun 2007 10:35:56 +0000
Trees, my favorites.
I would love to see a section on attaching pop-up menus to trees. How one would attach, and how i can have different menus depending on the node it was clicked on.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/chat_anyone#comment-1182643846000Re: Chat, Anyone?amnaSun, 24 Jun 2007 00:10:46 +0000i think it would be a great idea to have a live chat session..it would greatly help newbees like me..https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_and_ides_continued#comment-1182434604000Re: Layout Management and IDEs, continued...DanielThu, 21 Jun 2007 14:03:24 +0000I wonder if it ever comes to a kind of real "free layout". Every component has a top-/left-property for exact positioning and a height-/width-property for the size. Furthermore, I wonder why no one has thought about this kind of layout before, since it is the usual layouting used in common C++-IDEs (if I recall right: Visual C++, Borland C Builder...).https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1182427108000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?maxwellThu, 21 Jun 2007 11:58:28 +0000netbeans is cool, but grows a dirt code......
the screen to add personal code dont show the errors in real time, its necessary to compile the class to see errors.....https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_and_ides_continued#comment-1182275284000Re: Layout Management and IDEs, continued...PaulTue, 19 Jun 2007 17:48:04 +0000I use Eclipse 3.2 under JDK 1.5 server VM on Debian etch GNU/Linux (64-bit). I tried NetBeans, and the reason i decided not to use it was a) sluggish interactive performance, and b) ugliness (esp. fonts). I'd rather not see the tutorial use NetBeans at all.
Incidentally, i think the reason for b) above is not NetBeans itself, but the Swing L&amp;Fs on Linux (both Metal and GTK). I'd be embarrassed to deploy my Swing application on Linux. My client uses Windows, and the application always looks great. More work required there, Sun!https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1182256854000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?Marco Alan RottaTue, 19 Jun 2007 12:40:54 +0000I'm still a newbie in Java programming, and have been using NetBeans from the beginning. Anyway, I see no reason not to use an IDE to build a GUI if you manage to understand the fundamentals.
Best wishes.
Marco Alanhttps://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1182250069000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?Amy FowlerTue, 19 Jun 2007 10:47:49 +0000As usual, Karsten's post is right on the money:
The tutorial should be useful independent of the IDE you are using.
This means it should provide you with the bits you need to know to be successful in laying out guis. This would include a basic understanding of core layout concepts and layout managers (hey, I still use BorderLayout and Box an amazing amount of the time), an awareness/pointers to the better 3rd party layout managers and tools, as well as optional trails on how to use netbeans/matisse. Ideally it should give the reader an inkling on how to choose the best approach for a given project.
Amy Fowler
recovering GridBagLayout addict :)https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1182215843000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?LockyTue, 19 Jun 2007 01:17:23 +0000If you are not going to have to maintain the code yourself, you should be hand coding it to the coding standard being applied to the project. There is nothing worse than having to maintain generated code, with the random tags that mean nothing to a developer not familiar with what ever ide was used.
I also hate the way they generate the anonymous classes all over the place for each action on every component.
To me, an IDE designer is a short cut into GUI development for people who haven't taken the time to fully understand the API behind it.
Anyone can drag and drop.
We have an interview test for GUI developers where they have to hand code a screen using notepad, the JRE and the API, that's it. It certainly catches out the drag n drop brigade who claim to be GUI developers.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/chat_anyone#comment-1182146051000Re: Chat, Anyone?KishoreMon, 18 Jun 2007 05:54:11 +0000I believe a chat in tutorial will be of great use.especially for newbees it will of greater use.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/chat_anyone#comment-1182126016000Re: Chat, Anyone?SimonMon, 18 Jun 2007 00:20:16 +0000gd idea! but if no expert sit in, questions js like water flow away. as the content in live chat is unorganized. or a forumn is even better?https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/swing_web_2_0_and#comment-1182111575000Re: Swing, Web 2.0 and JavaFXguestSun, 17 Jun 2007 20:19:35 +0000Good questions. I m having them also.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1182055141000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?HanruiSun, 17 Jun 2007 04:39:01 +0000I prefer to teach the code directly before moving to any type of GUI helper. You can't go wrong by knowing what's going on at the level of the code.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1181985103000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?guruSat, 16 Jun 2007 09:11:43 +0000The video is more a reflection of the producer's ignorance than anything else.
A large number of layout managers currently exist outside of the standard Swing distribution that will enable him to handcode the GUI that he wanted to build in a few lines.
It's a shame that the video has spawned so much useless discussion rather than examples of using other managers for this problem.
Sun distributes its JDK with no dictatorial proclamation that the other better libraries not be used.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1181908112000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?Zhao YiFri, 15 Jun 2007 11:48:32 +0000I just use NetBeans' GUI Builder as an assistant tool, only for a "preview", and finally I'll code by hand. Using a GUI builder speeds up layout, but at the same time you've lost a lot of controls.
By the way, Matisse, or rather, GroupLayout has some serious problems. I've been sucked by components with a very very long side for many times.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1181907824000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?varanFri, 15 Jun 2007 11:43:44 +0000Re. the prior comment, the correct link for PageLayout layout manager on Sourceforge is here.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1181901276000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?varanFri, 15 Jun 2007 09:54:36 +0000Try GOLA (GUI Objects Layout Asistant) which is a happy medium between handcoding and visual editing in that the generated code is standalone, editable, and eminently readable and therefore easily maintainable.
It can be downloaded for free. It works in conjunction with the open source Pagelayout layout manager.https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1181899831000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?Jan Erik PaulsenFri, 15 Jun 2007 09:30:31 +0000People who use my software gets chicks !
Just kidding. Build the component in a UI builder or by hand and then remix it like this .https://blogs.oracle.com/thejavatutorials/entry/layout_management_use_an_ide#comment-1181891601000Re: Layout Management: Use an IDE or Code by Hand?guestFri, 15 Jun 2007 07:13:21 +0000Check out Qt's Designer for an easy GUI builder. It's logical, much easier (IMO) in my opinion to use than Matisse, and more RAD than not.