[G] PvT 3 Gate Aggressive Expo

OverviewThis opening allows you to apply heavy pressure to your opponent while expanding. This can punish a greedy Expo by the Terran, and can also set you up for a Sentry contain. However, it should be noted Sentries from this opening will not be very useful against Thor allins or Siege tanks. Also against 1/1/1 allins, a 3 Gate Expand build will likely not pay off in time of when an attack hits.

Also Liquid`Tyler talked about this sort of aggression when doing a 3 Gate Expansion one day on his stream when he was commentating on some of HuK's games, which is what gave me the idea in the first place.

*While Warpgate is being researched you should be able to produce two sentries out of this Gateway.

When your attack hits you should have 4-5 Zealots 5 Sentries and a Stalker (this unit composition can vary by personal reference). This, with followup reinforcements, are often times enough to bust the ramp or deal significant damage when SCVs are pulled from the mineral line. Once your zealots die it's usually a good idea to back off down the ramp and warp in more units, then move gain back up the ramp. If SCVs are pulled off after you've killed a bunker and any Barracks units, I'd advise running back down the ramp as the SCVs will kill your sentries and stalker fast enough so that you lose out on the exchange.

The reason you warp in three Zealots followed by Sentries, is two-fold. First off, you have an accumulation of minerals (about 600-700) and they need to be sunk fast. Zealots followed by the Nexus do this wonderfully. Zealots also have the shortest Warpgate cooldown time, thus allowing you to now spend your accumulation of vespene. This opening is an optimized way to get everything out quickly and cleanly, and allows you to be aggressive with what you have.

FollowupThe best follow up most of the time is going to be a robotics facility, as Immortals and Colossus are so great against ground forces. However, a forge might be a good idea if the Terran was quick teching to Banshees, as a couple cannons negating a banshee from dealing any damage will put the Terran extremely far behind. 5 Gateways a Forge and a Robotics Facility is a very solid setup to be on in PvT with two bases.

If you want a robo, I suggest constructing it while your Nexus at your natural is being constructed. If you're super paranoid about banshees, have detection and a couple stalkers ready by 7 minutes 30 seconds.

If you are into forcefield contains, this is a perfect way to set one up! Usually a force field contain deals much more damage than actually busting the ramp.

SuccessesSo far I haven't lost a match with this opening except for mis-micro on my part (or something later in the game that had little to nothing to do with the opening). The timing of the attack hits usually just after all the addons for the Terran have been finished, and they usually only have a couple bio units on top of their ramp in a single bunker as production hasn't kicked in yet. If you can bust the ramp and sit on top of their barracks the game is yours.

I assume that this push could be stopped with a proper sim-city on part of the Terran, but even so you're usually able to deal some significant damage before you return to your natural. The best thing about this, is that if you have proper micro you should only lose zealots, thus safely applying pressure to your opponent, forcing them to stay in their base with all their units, drawing focus away from your expansion, at a rather low risk.

Key Notes

With this opening you will live or die with your force field usage, so you best be able to utilize them properly. Also, please use guardian shield when you engage.

Before you lay down your Nexus be sure to clear away any SCV from your Natural Expansion location. You should be doing this with a Zealot Stalker and Sentry, or as I prefer with two Sentries and a Zealot.

Place the Proxy Pylon before your forces arrive, and be sure to warp in your zealots at your natural -this is in case the Terran is doing some form of an aggressive concussive shell rush.

I've never seen anyone lose with this build, nor have I ever been able to beat this build. You stated you haven't really lost with it, but do you have any ideas as to what Terran should do to defend against it properly?

Thanks for this, I'm a noob trying to find a build that I can practicing without getting bored and I think this might be it. Just a couple of extra questions:

-Are you only spending one chrono each on the Stalker and the Warp tech, or are you spending more?

-Is it really a good idea to go zealot heavy? Wouldn't a Stalker heavy mix work better?

-What supply # is a good time to expand? (40-50ish?)

-When is a good time to back off? Since I'm in Silver, the most common terran build I run across is 3rax->Expo. Whenever I give up the choke point at their ramp they bum rush me at my base and I die, but if I stay at their ramp, I leave my base open for drops. Should I just spam spotter pylons at possible drop routes or do I wait until I have a certain unit on the field?

On March 18 2011 10:31 SiN] wrote:I've never seen anyone lose with this build, nor have I ever been able to beat this build. You stated you haven't really lost with it, but do you have any ideas as to what Terran should do to defend against it properly?

Well, I know that two supply depots and a Barracks with a Bunker behind them, and a couple SCVs on the bunker will stop it for sure, and you'd probably get some free Zealot kills. But doesn't that conflict with how you want to spend your money with certain TvP builds?

Short answer: I'm not sure.

On March 18 2011 10:32 awwnuts07 wrote:Thanks for this, I'm a noob trying to find a build that I can practicing without getting bored and I think this might be it. Just a couple of extra questions:

-Are you only spending one chrono each on the Stalker and the Warp tech, or are you spending more?

-Is it really a good idea to go zealot heavy? Wouldn't a Stalker heavy mix work better?

-What supply # is a good time to expand? (40-50ish?)

-When is a good time to back off? Since I'm in Silver, the most common terran build I run across is 3rax->Expo. Whenever I give up the choke point at their ramp they bum rush me at my base and I die, but if I stay at their ramp, I leave my base open for drops. Should I just spam spotter pylons at possible drop routes or do I wait until I have a certain unit on the field?

Any help would be great, thanks.

What you spend chrono on isn't very important in my opinion. Make sure you spend it, and make sure all your gateways are finished when Warpgate research finishes.

I think it's better to be zealot/sentry heavy this early on as you can get out more population count per resources (stalkers are expensive).

Expand exactly when I do in my replays

Back off when the Zealots die and you think you'll lose some sentries! It's best to back off and let the Sentries live, then come back with another warpin round of Stalkers.

The best part about this build is that you basically deny all scouting, since the Terran will most like MULE for more money and can't get a unit out. It probably looks so much like a 4 gate that a Terran will over compensate to defend.

In Alicia vs MVP on Xelnaga, MVP had absolutely no idea that Alicia had expanded and so basically played like it was 1 base vs 1 base, leading to his loss. He couldn't get a marine out to scout.

On Altar, he scanned Alicia's natural to see and responded better. But still, that's 1 less MULE.

You have to rethink your strategies. Just as protoss had to rethink alot of his strategies when terrans did the 1barracks+concussive shell expansion. This is almost the exact same situation, just a little bit later. MVP for example just died because he was too greedy. He got a quite early CC and teched up at the same time. If you do that, you better make sure to deny the push easily and/or do some damage to the protoss economy. Or delay teching or the CC to a later time.

I'm confused as to how this can outright win the game--don't terrans come close to defending a full-on 4gate with fast expand builds? And what about 3rax openings? Don't you generally need a FF/ramp to beat that early on?

He got a quite early CC and teched up at the same time. If you do that, you better make sure to deny the push easily and/or do some damage to the protoss economy. Or delay teching or the CC to a later time.

I'm sorry, but isn't this what every other toss does nowadays, that or double upgrade or mass gateway comp with an FE? It's not that terran need to change up their strategies. It's that we have to get lucky and choose the right tech build and hope he did 3gate exp so that we counter it with, say, cloaked banshees.. Even then, he can easily notice a lot of marines and that you got gas early on, and would instantly assume you went for a tech build so he would throw down a robo. If we ALWAYS do a tech build such as cloaked banshee, we're doomed for sure, as a lot of toss are blindly going stargate now and it will almost always work, regardless of what terran does. Jinro even stated he has no clue what to do against that yet. Any build that has a robo in it will make banshees useless for harassment anyway, whenever I've been getting banshees recently I haven't even been getting cloak anymore because I know it's a worthless investment unless I'm going sky terran (which in that case I would research cloak way later on into the game)

The problem is it's getting too easy for toss to assume what we are doing behind our marines in our base. It's really hard to assume what toss is doing while so many of their openers are ridiculously strong and some almost impossible to deal with/to punish. OP even stated that he's not sure what you can really do if you opened 1/2rax fe.

On March 18 2011 11:26 kzn wrote:You didn't label the content of the replays - does one of them cover the response to a banshee tech? "Get a forge" is fairly vague, and leaves me uncomfortable with trying the build :x

Getting 1 cannon in each mineral line plus one at the natural choke should be enough until you can tech to robo (remember that you're on 2 bases compared to 1 base banshee tech). If the banshee does nothing, that's a lot of gas (gas is more valuable than minerals, and you're going to have a surplus of it with your expansion).

For Terrans wondering how to punish this build, in Game 2 in the set against SlayerSAlicia IMMvp went for a fast expo into siege tank and then cloakshees. The instant siege tanks pop the build is severely slowed, and the instant siege mode finishes, the rush is over. Cloakshees are an excellent follow-up because in order for Toss to apply pressure with only 3 gates, there's really not much spare income for infrastructure like robo/cannons. You want to expand with a bunker, and be willing to pull SCVs when the Tos attacks; in this way it's somewhat similar to a Protoss 1 Gate Expo.

On a map without an easily securable natural (e.g. Shakuras, Tal'Darim) this strategy is viable. On others like Xel'Naga, I think a 1-base response would probably be optimal. Given that 3-gate relies on the entire Toss army chilling at your ramp, a blue flame drop would seem to be devastating, but I guess more experimentation is needed.

In any case, this build is VERY late getting detection, as it goes 3 gates => massive unit production => Nexus. Cloakshees punish it brutally, as IMMvp did to Alicia in Game 2.

@CecilSunkure: First the 3 Stalker Rush, now this: Thanks so much for your awesome work in dissecting top-level GSL Toss builds and putting them up for the community to review! You're a hero in my book.