“As my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne superbly detailed in his column Tuesday night,the overarching fact of this conflict is that the Palestinians, for decades now, have been brutally occupied, blockaded, humiliated, deprived of the most basic human rights of statehood and autonomy though the continuous application of brute, lawless force (for that reason, those who like to righteously condemn Hamas’ rockets (Pierce, defending Obama; “he happened to be correct the other day. No country can tolerate the bombing of its citizens”) have the obligation to state what form of legitimate resistance Palestinians have to all of this). [emphasis added]

…

That one should vehemently condemn rocket attacks on civilians and bombs on Tel Aviv buses outside of an Israeli militaryfacilitydoes not mean sanctioning the years-long fueling of the Israeli side of this conflict by the US government.” [emphasis added]

First, what significance does Greenwald place in the fact that the civilian bus happened to be near an Israeli military facility?

The military facility wasn’t targeted – innocent men, women and children were.

“So Gazans are an occupied people and have the right to resist, including by armed force (though not to target civilians), while Israel is an occupying power that has an obligation to withdraw – not a right to defend territories it controls or is colonising by dint of military power.”

Milne is, in effect, defending Palestinian terrorism while arguing that Israel has no right to defend itself.

Greenwald’s own vitriol evokes a crude caricature of a villainous Israel, suggests there is no moral difference between Islamic extremists and a Jewish democracy, and he also evidently sympathizes with the moral logic of those who champion the “right” of Palestinians to murder Israelis.

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SENT TO DIE
They promised the boy $22 and 72 virgins
By DEBORAH BLACHOR in Jerusalem and CORKY SIEMASZKO in New York
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
A Palestinian boy bomber who was given $22 and promised 72 virgins in paradise was forced at gunpoint by Israeli soldiers to strip and remove the explosives strapped to his body.

“Do I have to take my clothes off here?” Hussam Abdu, 14, asked as soldiers yelled orders from behind barricades at a West Bankcheckpoint.

The soldiers insisted.

“He panicked, lifted his hands and a tragedy was prevented because he did not manage to detonate the explosive,” said Lt. Col. Guy, commander of the paratrooper unit.

It was around 3 p.m. when Abdu walked up, wearing an oversized red jacket. The soldiers were suspicious and ordered him to raise the jacket, revealing a gray vest packed with explosives.

“We could see that there was something on under his jacket,” said one of the paratroopers.

They ordered Abdu to take off his clothes, one item at a time – a suspenseful striptease caught on camera.

When Abdu had stripped down to his underpants, the soldiers used a yellow, remote-controlled robot to deliver a pair of scissors to cut off the vest.

“Lift your right hand and reach out to grab the scissors with the left,” one yelled.

The frightened boy did as he was told, and after struggling with the scissors he was free of his deadly payload.

“He said he didn’t want to die,” said another soldier who was at the checkpoint. “He didn’t want to blow up.”

Abdu was bundled in a green hooded parka and rushed off to safety while the vest was taken away and safely detonated.

The boy later told investigators that Tanzim- a militant group affiliated with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat’s Fatah movement – told him that the only way he would ever have sex was to blow himself up.

They also promised to give 100 shekels to his mother, who is ill. The boy said he wanted to be “a hero.”

“This is another example of the atrocious tendency of the Palestinians to sacrifice their own children for the purpose of attacking innocent Israelis,” said government spokesman David Baker.

Abdu’s neighbors in Nablus said the boy belonged to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a militant group.

His family, however, said Abdu was no terrorist.

Israeli soldiers are increasingly on the lookout for kiddie bombers.

They recently caught a 10-year-old Palestinian boy carrying explosives through the same roadblock. But unlike Abdu, Abdallah Quran apparently did not know the package he was paid $1 to carry was explosives. Both boys are students at the same school.

Are you people out of your mind? I just came across this site and the hypocrisy baffles me. No one has denied that blowing up a bus is a terrible crime. But the massacre and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is also a crime! The stealing of a land and imperialism is also a crime! Denying crimes and atrocities committed by the Zionists are NOT anti-Semitic. They are anti-Zionist. The imperialist Zionists who came from Europe, imperialised Palestine and are now massacring the Palestinians. All because a book written 2,000 years ago written by a primitive culture promises some land to some people. That’s what it comes down to. Get over yourselves. Palestinians deny the crimes of Hamas, no question about this. Hamas is not the perfect organisation. Simultaneously, Hamas is seen as the only resistance figure to Israel. The only body that dares to speak against Israel’s crimes.

Israel has started this on Nov. 4 when it killed a mentally ill person near the Gaza border as part of its barbaric siege that not only counts calories per person, but also disallows people near their very own borders (including fisherman trying to fish in the Mediterranean). Israel subsequently killed a boy on November 8 which Hamas decided to retaliate with some firecrackers rightfully so. Hamas also has the right to defend itself. Not just Israel.

In fact, Israel is an occupying force. How does an occupying force defend itself? It’s not defence. It’s a crime. A massacre. Genocide. Seeing people’s comments and websites like this give me dim hope in this terrible, terrible world.

Try living in a strip of land and being subject to a slow death policy. See if you react any better than Hamas. All of you are sitting behind computers secure, safe, able to go out and have a nice walk freely. Have access to basic human rights. It’s easy for you to bash and talk all this terrible talk that you do. Put yourself in such an uncomfortable situation and see how different your views will become.

What the hell are you ranting about?
For starters, the “anti-Zionist” argument:
The Hamas charter is explicitly anti-Semitic. Google it, if you like.
The rest, is just as equally absurd.
Before anyone was killed, on Nov. 4th, the Pals. planted an explosive tunnel underneath the border with Israel. So which comes first, genius? October or November?
Secondly, up until November Hamas had fired more than 800 rockets at Israel. “Firecrackers” — by that you probably mean the weapons-grade Grad and Fajr missiles — do kill, and maim.
So, how are you going to excuse that, idiot?
Finally, for the umpteenth time: GAZA IS NOT OCCUPIED. Not a single Israeli soldier, citizen, or otherwise has set foot there since ’05.
And before you start foaming at the mouth at the nonexistent “blockade”: how about Gaza’s border with Egypt?
Lastly this absolutely risible nonsense about “slow death”: Gaza has one of the highest birth rates ON EARTH. — 4.5%!!
My advice: read a book, or get a tranquilizer.

And btw, the tunnel was blown on Nov 8 not 4. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2012/November/Palestinians-Destroy-Tunnel-near-Israeli-Border-/. Hamas said this was a response to Israel’s killing the child. So yes, Hamas RIGHTFULLY so retaliated against the killing of the child and the mentally ill person. Furthermore, Israel counts CALORIES per person in Gaza. So of course they are going to have tunnels to smuggle basic human necessities. You’re really a first world spoiled brat. Secondly, even if it has a high birth rate (i’m not sure it has the highest on earth), so what? That doesn’t mean anything. In fact, its known during wars birth rates go up. How uneducated are you?

They’re going to have tunnels into ISRAEL, to smuggle their food? Now think about that moron.
Secondly, what about Gaza’s border with Egypt.. What sort of siege could you be talking about? Are you blind?
So, you concede that Gaza has one of the highest birthrates in the world… So there is in death policy, in a terrorist that HAS consistently, for decades, grown at that rate.
You’re a pathetic liar.
And I’m referring to this:

Haha you’re very funny sir. I’m not Muslim btw. Surprised huh? Anyway, I know the smuggling of luxurious cars is terrible. In fact, I oppose both the PLO and Hamas. They are corrupt and are the reason why the Palestinian civilians are suffering. Or scratch that, part of the reason (along with Israel).

Commentary it was never Israel’s responsibility to ensure avoidence of malnutrition. So why the calorie counting exercise ? Surely butting out of the control of the entry of foodsfuffs would have done.

Weissglass was quoted out of context…
But how fitting of you to cite the charlatan Chomsky — in this regard.
The “calorie counting” was only applied during Cast Lead. Perfectly reasonable, since this was active combat, and there was genuine fear of malnutrition.

Chomsky was the one to whip up that citation, out of thin air. I’ve also noticed your avid propensity, to swallow the PSC bait, unflinchingly.
As my link above demonstrates, at no point (from ’08-’09) was Gaza ever facing any sort of crisis.
Now, what else could Israel have done, during Cast Lead especially, when the Pals. were shelling the Goods Depot(!) @ Kerem Shalom? It was forced to seal it off.
Hence the concern for the Gazans food intake. Legitimate and worthy.

So it’s the old “calorie counting” argument again. Let me ask you this. Which is worse:

1. Israel recognises that, as it is undertaking a limited blockade of (most of) Gaza’s borders, it has a duty to monitor the humanitarian situation in Gaza, and takes steps to ensure that enough food and medical supplies got in to avoid malnutrition (or even any semblence of malnutrition); or

2. Israel makes no effort and takes no interest in the humanitarian position in Gaza and allows matters to simply take their course.

If Gazans started dying of hunger, I am sure you “calorie counter” fixators would be the first to slam Israel for “ignoring” the humanitarian situation, wouldn’t you?

And as for you, “real”zionist, you say “it was never Israel’s responsibility to ensure avoidence [sic] of malnutrition” but bang on about how Gaza is “occupied” by Israel. You can’t have it both ways. Either Gaza is NOT occupied, in which case Israel has no responsibilities towards Gaza, or Israel, as the occupying power, has a duty to ensure there is no humanitarian crisis. Which is it?

Well since you are not interested I guess I am going to have to go elsewhere to find out how one makes sure that there is no food shortages in an area by banning and restricting the entry of foodstuffs into that area. Ha well I had gotten so optimistic but you don’t always get what you wanna.

Gaza and the West Bank have quite a high rate of obesity,. Either the West Bank is INCREDIBLY fat to balance this out, or Weisglass’s infamous diet isn’t keeping people too terribly malnourished.

The blockade is a shame, but Israel would be insane to take it down. People are not starving. And yes, Israel is counting calories, because that’s the scientific way to make sure that an actual humanitarian crisis does not develop on what unfortunately continues to be their watch. Makes a lot more sense than just dumping potatoes over the crossing and hoping for the best.

Mere waffle makabit. The dodge is the refusal to explain how banning and restricting foodstuffs squares with a humanitarian concern to ensure that the food no one starved. Whether anyone was starving or is starving is irrelevant.

Peter your well being is of the utmost concern to me. In order to ensure you get enough to eat I am going to ban and restrict the entry of foodstuffs into your house.

Thank you for proving my point regarding the twisted logic of a real human rights warrior. The Israeli government doesn’t have to give a flying shwarma about the obesity or health of the Gazans. Israel implements a blockade in order to ensure that the democratically elected rulers of Gaza couldn’t import anything especially not weapons or dual use materials, but at the same time doesn’t want to cause unnecessary sufferings of civilians so allows the entry of the minimum necessary materials strictly of humanitarian reasons. Or do you think that we have to worry about the well being of our deadly enemy? A pity that you didn’t advise the UK government after WWII, Atlee certainly would have liked your idea exporting into the starving Germany anything but the minimum stuff for survival.

Ha so they DID put them on a diet.
Are you really this idiot or only pretending?
Maybe you should sue your elementary school where they were suoosed to teach you basic understanding of simple texts.
BTW Comical Ali reminds me your Hamas heroes and their Western supporters like you bragging about the downing Israeli planes and declaring a huge victory.
Projection Richard?

Are waffles also banned? No, it’s not ‘mere waffle’. Israel is being a PITA (that’s Pain In The Ass, not the bread) to Gaza with the restrictions, some of which are meant to control substances with other uses, and some, I suspect, merely to be annoying, or as a result of obscure bureaucratic decisions. However, Gaza is not starving, Gaza is annoyed because the food aid being given to them by their sworn enemies is being controlled by those enemies.

I’m not sure what you’re accusing Israel of. If it’s not starving Gaza…it’s…controlling their border? Failing to provide cilantro? What?

‘Collective punishment’ does not mean ‘failing to do everything Hamas wants’. If the term were to be used so broadly, all border restrictions, tariffs and boycotts could be called ‘collective punishment’.

You’re being babyish. The reason the blockade is there is pretty simple. If you want to paint Israel as the bad guys for high-handedly refusing to give Gazans life-giving cilantro, be my guest. I like cilantro, but it’s not a human right.

I don’t want to turn this into a bicker but please tell me how the banning and restriction of foodstuffs fits with your analysis ( and it wasn’t just during cast lead.) As Senator Kerry asked at the crossing, ” when were you last blown up by a lentil bomb”.

I did not know that Chomsky had quoted Weisglass but I do know that it did not originate with him. I think it was Haaretz and then backed up by other sources but I am happy to be corrected. The full quote btw is ” The purpose is not to starve them to death but to put them on a diet “

Look, this is the last time I’ll delve into the subject, since you’re obviously not prepared to listen:
1. Weisglass denied the alleged “quote”. It’s hearsay like this, that’s been popular with PSC-related acolytes, Chomsky, et al.
2. As my link above demonstrates, at no point was Gaza anywhere any an “humanitarian crisis” — so there really is nothing to argue about.
3. That there *was* a restriction on, say, lentils, is indeed, at least prima facie inexplicable. But so is the willingness of Palestinian terrorists to fire at Kerem Shalom, Sufa, etc: the crossings where the Palestinians supposedly desired to get, said Lentils. I think the most incongruent thing about this affair, is that Israel, WHILE HAVING its border-controllers constantly under fire, continued to supply Gaza with anything. That is stupidity in-and of-itself.
NB –> Nor is there any evidence, that despite said “restrictions” there ever was any shortage of Lentils in the strip. Do you really need a geography lesson? Is Gaza not coterminous with a certain country, whose name, they claim, begins with an “E”?
4. Interesting Kerry quote(I wonder what he had said to Assad, during their very fraternal meetings, some years ago): Let me ask you this, were you ever blown up, directly, by a fertilizer bomb? — Did you know, however, that Fertilizers(and Sugar(!)) are the primary fuel agents for the Kassam rockets Hamas/&c, fire?
As you can see, Terrorists can turn something as innocuous as sugar, into a veritable killer.
Finally, I was tempted to ask you, what you had meant a few days ago, by “Tel Aviv Starbucks Jew”(since there’s an underlying PSC lie about it(can you guess which?)), but after your particularly anemic display here, of completely ignorance of the stark reality Israel faces, I am not really interested.

Well since you are not interested I guess I am going to have to go elsewhere to find out how one makes sure that there is no food shortages in an area by banning and restricting the entry of foodstuffs into that area. Ha well I had gotten so optimistic but you don’t always get what you wanna.

Now, as you’ll see, a high rate of obesity does not necessarily mean that people are eating well. As in the US, people with less food security eat a higher-fat, higher-carb diet, and I’m willing to bet that some of that is related to the situation with the blockade, along with many other factors. However, the numbers in Gaza and the West Bank run fairly neck and neck with other nations in the wider region who have never had Israel blockade them, ie, for men, Gaza and the WB are sandwiched right between Saudi and Bahrain for obesity rates. That’s per The Economist, a magazine not well known for being far right or racist.

Situation per food: not excellent, Japan it’s not, but certainly not the scene of abject starvation described by the more feverish ‘open-air concentration camp’ types, and not markedly different from

Now, your turn to back up your counterclaim that there is ‘no obesity in Gaza’. While you’re at it, please tell me if the sources I have chosen are right wing or racist, and what you believe to be wrong with them, so that I can improve my information-gathering in the future.

Lie #1No one has denied that blowing up a bus is a terrible crime.
In Gaza the people celebrated the terror attack.
Lie #2 But the massacre and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is also a crime!
Israel must be very ineffective taking into account the growing number of the Palestinian population.Denying crimes and atrocities committed by the Zionists are NOT anti-Semitic. They are anti-Zionist.
Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism. Period.
Lie #3The imperialist Zionists who came from Europe…
About half of them came from Arab countries because they were persecuted by your Arab compatriots. Or according to the Palestinian geography book Algeria, Libya, Morocco, Egypt, Tunis, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Iran are in Europe?
Lie #4All because a book written 2,000 years ago written by a primitive culture promises some land to some people
The Jews lived here well before your not so primitive Prophet dreamt about his first child wife and actually the Muslim imperialists occupied the land by violence after the fall of the Roman empire. BTW speaking about primitive culture if we compare the dysfunctional Muslim states and the hugely successful Judeo-Christian world this crap of yours must be the joke of the century.
Lie #5Palestinians deny the crimes of Hamas, no question about this
I suppose you wanted to say condemn not deny but anyway this is a lie. See Lie #1
Lie #6Israel has started this on Nov. 4 when it killed a mentally ill person near the Gaza border
Not the Hamas started with about 12000 rockets from 2005? Are you sure?
Lie #7as part of its barbaric siege that not only counts calories per person..
As it is perfectly clear the reason behind the counting of the calories was to prevent hunger in Gaza and not anything else. BTW the supermarkets in Gaza are full of merchandise, there are more than one luxury hotel and gourmet restaurants. .
Lie #8…but also disallows people near their very own borders (including fisherman trying to fish in the Mediterranean).
Maybe they shouldn’t try to smuggle in weapons used to terrorize Israel and shooting at school buses or kidnap soldiers.near the border.
Lie #9 Israel subsequently killed a boy on November 8 which Hamas decided to retaliate with some firecrackers rightfully so
Actually Hamas killed a boy for the Egyptian foreign minister. Be a good liar please and forget about the firecrackers. If the Grads are firecrackers then you are a big plate of shwarma.
BS #1In fact, Israel is an occupying force. How does an occupying force defend itself? It’s not defence. It’s a crime. A massacre. Genocide. Seeing people’s comments and websites like this give me dim hope in this terrible, terrible world.
May I suggest a suicide belt to distance yourself from this terrible world and depart to your 72 virgins (Disclaimer: The suppliers won’t be responsible for their virginity!) But please don’t explode among civilians as your usual method of departing, try to keep it private.
BS#2Try living in a strip of land and being subject to a slow death policy. See if you react any better than Hamas.
If we would behave like Hamas Gaza would be now a big empty parking lot.
BS#3All of you are sitting behind computers secure, safe, able to go out and have a nice walk freely.
Between two exploding pizza parlors, buses or Quassam, Katyusha whatever else – yes we are able.
BS #4 Have access to basic human rights.
But we have not like in all of the Arab or Muslim countries.

To sum it up Mr. Palestinian until you and your compatriots will think as you do and delude yourself with the laughable crap you succeeded to write down here your situation won’t be any better.

Can I inject, just for a moment, a modicum of balance and perspective here?

Palestinian – personally I don’t deny that it must be tough to live in Gaza – I certainly wouldn’t want to do so. I also recognise, as do most supporters of Israel, that it is a tragedy when innocent civilians, whether children or not, get caught up in conflicts and lose their lives. I (dare I say we) fervently wish it were otherwise.

But here’s the thing. While Israel is not by any stretch of the imagination purer than pure – it has made mistakes, and done some things I am not proud of – its fundamental position is simply this – leave us alone, agree our right to exist and exist in peace within secure boundaries, and we will be more than happy to live as your neighbour. BUT – deny our right to exist? Call Tel Aviv “occupuied” (as Hamas routinely do)? Call for the death of Jews (not Israelis) wherever in the world they live (as Hamas leaders routinely do)? Educate your children that the highest ideal is to die a martyr by killing Jews (as Hamas routinely do)? Deliberately target our civilians with suicide bombs, bus bombs, rockets and mortars (as Hamas routinely do – or used to do before the border with Gaza was fortified)? Then we will NOT sit idly by and allow you to do so with impunity.

As for your talk of “genocide” and “massacre”. Well, it’s frankly laughable. If you want to see what a genocide looks like, when a highly-armed, powerful, well-funded group decide to target a weak, defenceless ,minority, look to Syria, or Darfur, or Kurdistan. Every death is a tragedy, but frankly if Israel seriously wanted to commit “genocide” on the Palestinians, the death figures would be in the tens of thousands, not in the tens, and Israel would not waste so much money and effort on expensive surgical strikes against rocket launch sites and Hamas leaders and leaflet drops warning civilians of impending air strikes, they would simply carpet bomb the place.

Try living in a strip of land and being subject to a slow death policy. See if you react any better than Hamas. All of you are sitting behind computers secure, safe, able to go out and have a nice walk freely. Have access to basic human rights. It’s easy for you to bash and talk all this terrible talk that you do. Put yourself in such an uncomfortable situation and see how different your views will become.

Is Israel loading palestinians into railway wagons for “resettlement” in the east? And what happened to the Billions in aid that the never has existed non country of palestine recieved in aid from Israel, UK, US, EU etc though checking the bank accouts of the leadership of the likes of Fatah, Hamas will no doubt reveal some interesting resuts. And a bit of advice stop breeding like flies and go for quality rather than quantity along with education

The Islamo Nazi supporters are out in force.
First, 100% of Gaza is controlled by Islamo fascists Hamas.
Gazan’s are free to travel anywhere they want through the Egypt Gaza border, which is controlled by Hamas Ally the Egyptian Moslem Brotherhood.
Israel will not allow Islamic terrorists to go from Gaza to Israel to blow up Israeli civilians in buses, disco’s and Pizzeria’s.
So ofcourse Israel has a blockade.
But to repeat, Gazan’s go travel through the Egypt Gaza border which Israel doesn’t control.

Greenwald basically thinks Hamas terrorists can fire rockets from Gaza into Israel and terrorize Israeli civilians and Greenwald wants Israel to do nothing and accept being terrorized by Islamo Nazis.

There must be a difference between Milne and Greenwald. While Milne is an especially poisonous and evil representative of the British left establishment and intelligentsia Greenwald is an obvious psychopath who totally lost his marbles and whose mental state and Jewishness are cynically exploited by an antisemitic British rag exactly like the poor mentally retarded Arab child mentioned by Ed Frias has been exploited by our Fatah peace partner.

I agree with this. Milne is a hard left propagandist, who has abandoned his left wing principles to accomodate Islamofascism, but he’s perfectly sane. Greenwald however strikes me as definitely unhinged in some way. I think he could actually be quite violent.

“Milne is a hard left propagandist, who has abandoned his left wing principles to accomodate Islamofascism, but he’s perfectly sane.”
Really? Abandoning left wing principles to accommodate Islamofacism sounds sane to you?

Greenwald: “That one should vehemently condemn rocket attacks on civilians and bombs on Tel Aviv buses outside of an Israeli military facility does not mean sanctioning the years-long fueling of the Israeli side of this conflict by the US government.”

What the f**k is he on about?

And why indeed mention the “outside of an Israeli military facility” non-context? Was this a street-based bomb aimed at the army that just so happened to take out a civilian bus? Hardly.

Netanyahu tells the truth how Hamas civilian killers fire at Israeli civilians and hide among civilians. Its a double war crime.
Poor Glenn Greenwald has so much hatred towards Israel being a Jewish state and not controlled by the Arabs with their 22 countries, like thats not enough states for the Arabs.
Greenwald is so desperate that Israel become an Islamic state he’s supporting Hamas sadists.

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu met on Tuesday evening with the Secretary General of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon.

The two made statements to the press, and Netanyahu stressed that while Israel always makes sure to avoid hitting civilian casualties when attacking Gaza, Hamas and other Gaza-based terrorists deliberately fire at innocent civilians in southern Israel.

“I know you’re very concerned about the civilian casualties on both sides. Well, we share your concern, and that is why, in fighting terror, our military always tries to avoid civilian casualties,” Netanyahu told Ban. “In fact, I’m not sure that there is another military on Earth that goes to such great lengths to keep innocents out of harm’s way. Israel is, I think, remarkable in that, when you consider the conditions that we’re facing, I think that something almost without parallel in history is taking place. We’re conducting these surgical operations against at a time when our own population is being bombarded by rockets.

“Unfortunately, Mr. Secretary,” added Netanyahu, “Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, and the other terrorist groups, do not share your concern about our civilian casualties or about civilian casualties at all. They’re deliberately and indiscriminately targeting our civilians and they deliberately hide behind their civilians. The terrorists target our children and they use their own children as human shields. They place explosives, weapons, other destructive weapons of any kind in schools, mosques, hospitals, universities. Targeting civilians and hiding behind civilians, as you well know is a double war crime. If we hope to make these tactics illegitimate, they should be condemned in the most forceful terms by all responsible members of the international community. The moment we draw symmetry between the victims of terror and the unintended casualties that result from legitimate military action against the terrorists, the minute that false symmetry is drawn, the terrorists win.

“I know, Mr. Secretary, that you understand this, and I am confident, as always, that you will continue to lend your moral authority to the struggle against terrorism,” said Netanyahu. “Mr. Secretary, no country would tolerate rocket attacks against its cities and against its civilians. Israel cannot tolerate such attacks. If a long-term solution can be put in place through diplomatic means, than Israel would be a willing partner to such a solution. But if stronger military action proves necessary to stop the constant barrage of rockets, Israel will not hesitate to do what is necessary to defend our people.”

This statement sums up how crazy the left is to support these Islamo fascists in Gaza.

“Unfortunately, Mr. Secretary,” added Netanyahu, “Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, and the other terrorist groups, do not share your concern about our civilian casualties or about civilian casualties at all. They’re deliberately and indiscriminately targeting our civilians and they deliberately hide behind their civilians. The terrorists target our children and they use their own children as human shields. They place explosives, weapons, other destructive weapons of any kind in schools, mosques, hospitals, universities. Targeting civilians and hiding behind civilians, as you well know is a double war crime. If we hope to make these tactics illegitimate, they should be condemned in the most forceful terms by all responsible members of the international community. The moment we draw symmetry between the victims of terror and the unintended casualties that result from legitimate military action against the terrorists, the minute that false symmetry is drawn, the terrorists

As with many lies there is usually to be found a scintilla of truth lying around in there. Thus when Greenwald , in an otherwise disagreeable statement says “the US government is doing nothing..” he makes an unintentional valid point. Below is a quote from yesterday’s page on Arutz 7.

“The ceasefire that Israel accepted after the Operation Cast Lead in January 2006[sic] was to be accompanied with monitoring systems to prevent smuggling, but the United States and European Union did not fulfill their promises. Israeli military officials have said that Hamas has exploited the opportunity to stockpile an arsenal of weapons, which include medium range Fajr missiles that can reach Tel Aviv, as well as anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles.”

So what were these promises again?.I researched it and came up with an article written back in 2009 (18 January): The Telegraph wrote:

“There were signs that diplomatic efforts could quickly satisfy both Israel and Hamas. Mr Brown and five other European leaders, including President Nicolas Sarkozy, were to meet the Israeli leader Ehud Olmert last night in Jerusalem to outline measures that would meet Israel’s security concerns while allowing it to lift the blockade of Gaza.

The Israeli campaign reached a turning point last week after Mr Olmert’s government secured international guarantees that the flow of arms to Hamas in Gaza would be stopped. Israel was promised American involvement in the effort to stop shipments from Iran, a development that triggered offers of patrols by the Royal Navy and its French and German counterparts.

So will Israel learrn anything from this, this time round? What sanctions,in any agreement can be imposed on those who make promises , but don’t keep them? Do victims of terror, and those who have been caught up in the crossfire have a legitimate cause of action against those who have breached their commitment to ensuring this conflict remains controlled and kept at bay?
Worth thinking about.

Good post I saw.
Last night on CNN, Weiderman, in Gaza, was asked about the leaflets the Israelis drop on the civilian populations before they shell an area where they think Hamas is launching rockets. Yes, he confirmed, they do that and even give specific route instructions so that the civilian population will know where they should and should not go as they leave.
However, Weiderman also pointed out that Hamas “encourages” their people to stay put.
So in the silly talk about proportionate response, we see one side trying to limit casualties and the other side trying to increase them.
Guess which is which.

Are you people out of your mind? I just came across this site and the hypocrisy baffles me. No one has denied that blowing up a bus is a terrible crime. But the massacre and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is also a crime! The stealing of a land and imperialism is also a crime! Denying crimes and atrocities committed by the Zionists are NOT anti-Semitic. They are anti-Zionist. The imperialist Zionists who came from Europe, imperialised Palestine and are now massacring the Palestinians. All because a book written 2,000 years ago written by a primitive culture promises some land to some people. That’s what it comes down to. Get over yourselves. Palestinians deny the crimes of Hamas, no question about this. Hamas is not the perfect organisation. Simultaneously, Hamas is seen as the only resistance figure to Israel. The only body that dares to speak against Israel’s crimes.

Israel has started this on Nov. 4 when it killed a mentally ill person near the Gaza border as part of its barbaric siege that not only counts calories per person, but also disallows people near their very own borders (including fisherman trying to fish in the Mediterranean). Israel subsequently killed a boy on November 8 which Hamas decided to retaliate with some firecrackers rightfully so. Hamas also has the right to defend itself. Not just Israel.

In fact, Israel is an occupying force. How does an occupying force defend itself? It’s not defence. It’s a crime. A massacre. Genocide. Seeing people’s comments and websites like this give me dim hope in this terrible, terrible world.

Try living in a strip of land and being subject to a slow death policy. See if you react any better than Hamas. All of you are sitting behind computers secure, safe, able to go out and have a nice walk freely. Have access to basic human rights. It’s easy for you to bash and talk all this terrible talk that you do. Put yourself in such an uncomfortable situation and see how different your views will become.

I should point out nayefc is Jordanian.
Maybe he forgets, but when Arafat tried to overthrow King Hussein’s goverment in 1970, Hussein killed 20,000 Arabs in response.
This article goes into detail about this.
Poor nayefc, who cant condemn Arabs for killing Arabs, but condemns Israel for defending itself against Islamo fascism.http://www.wnd.com/2002/05/13963/
THE DAY ARAFAT WAS OFFERED POWER
05/20/2002
JOSEPH FARAH

Does Yasser Arafat really want a “Palestinian homeland”? Or, as many have suggested, is this 35-year-old demand merely a ploy to conduct asymmetrical warfare against the Jewish state of Israel?

I just read a 1998 book, “Arafat,” by Said K. Aburish, an author quite sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, which should dispel any such fanciful notions by those still daydreaming about any peace brokered by this man.

The most enlightening section of the book deals with the 1970 civil war in Jordan between Arafat’s forces and those of the late King Hussein’s.

Israel and the West could learn quite a lesson from this history.

“Between mid-1968 and the end of 1969, there were no fewer than 500 violent clashes between members of the various Palestinian guerrilla groups and the Jordanian army and security forces,” Aburish writes. “Serious incidents included the kidnapping of Arab diplomats and unfriendly Jordanian journalists, unprovoked attacks on government offices, rape and the humiliation of army and security officers. The Palestinians, who were legally entitled to set up road blocks, molested women, levied illegal taxes and insulted the Jordanian flag in the presence of loyal Jordanians.”

Just like today’s conflict between Palestinians and Israelis, there were debates as to whether Arafat controlled the violence or whether he was unable to impose discipline on his followers or challenge groups behind the attacks.

Aburish documents in detail the many steps Hussein took in trying to defuse the conflict between his regime and the Palestine Liberation Organization, which had established a nation within a nation in Jordan. Even while members of Arafat’s coalition were actively working on behalf of Hussein’s overthrow, the king made the unprecedented and astonishing gesture of offering to form a government with Arafat – one in which the PLO leader would serve as prime minister.

“An amazed, almost speechless Arafat turned him down because he had no plan for Jordan, or for incorporating the PLO into a functioning nation state with or without Hussein,” writes Aburish. “With this refusal Arafat, who survives on improvisation and constantly turns turmoil to personal advantage, was left with no option but to continue to contribute to the existing untenable chaotic state of affairs. Unable to control his followers or assume power, he was cornered into trying to maintain the status quo. As if to underscore the absurdity of the situation, immediately afterwards, in June, there was yet another failed attempt by renegade guerrillas to assassinate Hussein by ambushing his motorcade.”

How far did Hussein bend to accommodate Arafat? So far as to offer him a partnership in the Jordanian government – one in which Arafat would serve as prime minister.

If Arafat was even tempted to govern a Palestinian state, this opportunity represented the best chance. Jordan’s population is 80 percent Palestinian. There are far more Palestinians in Jordan than there are in Arafat’s Palestinian Authority today.

Arafat would have none of it. Why? Because he knew that such a deal would come with a string attached. He would have to curtail his terrorist operations against Israel. That price tag was too high for Arafat – and it always will be.

Instead, following more terrorist operations against Jordan – including what was until Sept. 11 the most dramatic series of airline hijackings in history on Sept. 6, 1970 – Hussein declared war on Arafat’s forces. As many as 15,000 people died in the fighting that lasted nearly a year. So ferocious was the final Jordanian attack on Arafat’s forces that many of his fighters chose to surrender to Israelis rather than face the terror from their own Arab brethren.

Arafat fled with about 2,000 of his fighters first into Syria and later into Lebanon – where they were eventually responsible for launching yet another bloody Arab civil war.

What’s the lesson here?

It is one that has been overlooked by history. Arafat will settle for nothing less than all of Israel. There is little point in negotiating with him. Other Arab leaders have learned this first hand – which is why he will never again be allowed to operate on their turf.

…the overarching fact of this conflict is that the Palestinians, for decades now, have been brutally occupied, blockaded, humiliated, deprived of the most basic human rights of statehood and autonomy though the continuous application of brute, lawless force…

Yes, the TRUTH hurts, doesn’t it CIF?

Israel controls Gaza’s access to the sea, or when the IDF Navy needs target practice, they shoot up Gazan fishing boats they let onto the sea….P.S. All that Natural Gas owned by Palestine off Gaza intrigues you, doesn’t it?

Israel controls the skies over Gaza, regularly sending jets at super-sonic speed over Gaza, breaking the sound barrier and scaring the hell out the indigenous Palestinians.

Israel controls the land, by setting up checkpoints outside of Gaza and toying with Gazans like a cat does with a mouse.

If the USA used lies about Saddam’s non-existent WMD’s and TWO UN resolutions that Iraq was allegedly in violation of, then shouldn’t the Pentagon do the same to Israel, who definitely has nuclear weapons, and chemical and biological weapons?

And Israel is in violation of over 60 UN resolutions.

Wake up Israel,in case you haven’t noticed, the world is starting to get wise to your MSM manipulation of the media and are starting to realize the truth about APARTHEID Israel.

It’s not too late to join the human race, if you can stand us GOY.

And I recommend doing it soon, for as soon as the USA collapses due to Wall Street fraud and fighting endless wars, who will be there for you?

Why don’t the Gazans simply go back and forth through the crossing to Egypt? Simple answer – because like every country on the planet Egypt controls who can enter its territory. Why do you think Israel should behave differently and allow anyone snd everyone to enter its country? As it is, about 20,000 Gazan entry permits are issued each year and you mahe noticed Westerners flit in and out on a daily basis

They can circulate within Gaza. If you consider the West Bank to be their country, then they need to create a political climate that will allow Israel to offer them access to the West Bank without reasonable fear of their citizens being blown to kingdom come.

The situation sucks, but its not exactly an easily changed on, unless Hamas gets its act in gear.

Wow, you parroted all the Palestinian propaganda cliches perfectly, missing none (except the one about the spy buzzards–sorry, that one’s Egyptian), and added the novelty of Israel’s navy gunning down Gazan fishing boats for target practice! Now, to really secure your place of honor in Word War III, give us some evidence of it… What, not right now?

Greg Bacon, are the actions of Palestinians and Israelis truly the same? Take a sheet of paper, and list all of the Israeli suicide bombers you can remember; all of the times that Israelis bombed pizza parlors, school cafeterias, wedding receptions, shopping malls, busses. Name all Jewish airplane hijackers .. since 1903. How many Jews were involved in Bali, Madrid, Beslan, the twin towers? How many Arabs have died in pogroms at the hands of Jews, during the last 4,000 years? How many times have Jews decapitated, hanged, dismembered or stoned Arabs? There is no death penalty in Israel. List all other countries in the Middle East which do not execute Arabs.
If there is a cycle of violence … why is that sheet of paper still blank?

Virtually all of the Palestinians killed during these past 12 years were suicide bombers, terrorists killed in gun battles, dissidents lynched by fellow Arabs for their beliefs, women and children used as human shields or foils by their “brave fighters” – and yes, dozens of people who were caught in the line of fire.
Few recall that when Israel began using aircraft to destroy terrorist facilities (following the massacre of Jewish shoppers at a Netanya mall in 01) the Jews actually publicized the targets in advance, in order to minimize Arab civilian casualties.

Every morning, at least one Palestinian wakes up with a smile and the thought, “I’m going to murder some Jews today.” They strap on explosive belts and guns, and search out any soft target they can find – a city bus, a baby, a student, a jogger. Israelis do not wake up in the morning and set out to murder Arabs. In rare instances when a Jew actually injures or kills a Palestinian, he is arrested and prosecuted. Contrast this with the Arab hero who shoots a Jewish baby. This “martyr of Palestine” will be eulogized by Arabs his family made rich and his picture proudly displayed throughout the Arab world.

nayefc, leave out an important fact.
The mentally disabled man was killed because of Hamas sadism..
4 times he came to the border and 4 times the Israeli soldiers returned him unharmed. The fifth time he was low crawling in a ditch and refused orders to halt. You guys always seem to leave this part out. Why is that?
So stop with your nonsense that Israel started this.
Hamas looks for any excuse to fire missles at Israeli civilians, then they hide among their civilians. Even all the newscasters in Gaza said how Hamas was firing these missles among civilians.

nayefc, why did Hamas send this mentally disabled man to the border 5 times?
Does this sound familar.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1033728/posts
Palestinian woman beaten for refusing to explode (Beaten by Hamas terrorists)
Jerusalem Post ^ | 12/4/03
A Palestinian woman arrived at the Tarkomiya checkpoint and complained to soldiers that she had been beaten by 4 Hamas terrorists for refusing to serve as a suicide bomber.
The terrorists then escaped in the direction of Kiryat Gat. Southern command police are presently searching for the perpetrators.

Greenwald is truly pathetic. Claiming Milne as colleague should be seen as an insult, not something positive. There is absolutely nothing that the USA aand Israel do that he will not find complrtely evil – even now the the USA brokered this ceasefire (unfortunately, though Hamas is clearly reeling from the loss of leadership, property, and weapons.)

Ed, as much as I detest both Milne and Greenwald I can’t sanction the killing of obnoxious people, based on their views and opinions. Jabari apparently had blood on his hands and was planning more actions. Where would we draw the line? Noam Chomsky? Norman Finkelstein? Chris McGreal? realzionist? I guess part of the test we’re given is to put up with scumbags of all types. Only if they venture into planning or acting out violence do we consider physically stopping them. That said, even if they pass away peacefully I wouldn’t mind either of them making love to 72 Helen Thomases.