At 11/1/2015 10:37:18 PM, Hayd wrote:Idk, I don't know anything about Turkish elections, I think Kurdish people are good so I guess thats good

Okay.

So, the AKP is the party of Turkish President and former Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan (pronounced: Ehr-doe-an). Erdogan wants to convert Turkey from a Parliamentary democracy to an American-styled Presidential democracy, largely to give himself more power. In theory, the Prime Minister is the most powerful person in Turkey, but, in practice, Erdogan essentially controls his Prime Minister (Davetoglu).

Many people in Turkey fear that Erdogan is a nascent autocrat; while Prime Minister, in his later years, he persecuted opposition journalists, arrest opposition party officials, etc. He is extremely popular among conservative faction in central Turkey for his willingness to de-secularize Turkey and move it closer to an Islamic state.

The Kurds have a long separatist history in Turkey, and Turkey had a long civil war with the Turkish PKK rebels. The ceasefire between the PKK and Turkey recently collapsed due to the AKP government bombing the living daylights out of their basis in Northern Iraq, where the PKK was fighting ISIS. In the elections Turkey had in June of this year, the Kurdish HDP party won enough votes to enter Parliament (you need 10% of the votes to enter Parliament, and they got 13%). This was the first time they had entered Parliament, and they did it only by merging with left-wing socialist parties. The HDP is extremely progressive, and has promises that 10% of all its MPs will be LGBTQ, 50% will be women, and is socialist-leaning. This stands in stark contrast to the AKP.

In the June elections, the big issue was whether the AKP could get enough seats in Parliament to pass constitutional reform to give Erdogan more power. Again, people are afraid that doing this will make him effectively Turkey's dictator. The AKP needs a supermajority in Parliament to do this, and, instead of winning the 2 or 3 seats they needs for a supermajority, they lost big, resulting in a hung Parliament. Coalition talks collapsed, and fresh elections were held today.

The AKP now has a majority, but not a supermajority. The HDP only barely reentered Parliament (with 10.96% of the vote). Hopefully, this gives you a bit more context.

Erdogan's party consists of Turkic nationalists. Turkic nationalists think that Turkic people are something special. Naturally, they think that Turkey's Kurdish population shouldn't have a whole lot of power (or, in the opinions of extremists, should be expelled from Turkey so it can be a pure Turkic nation).So yeah, Kurds and Erdogan's party don't get along well. I suspect that a fairly large war will break out in Turkey sometime soon.

At 11/2/2015 5:06:34 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:Erdogan's party consists of Turkic nationalists. Turkic nationalists think that Turkic people are something special.

I disagree. What you're describing is closer to the MHP's ideology, not the AKP. The AKP is a pro-EU Islamist-in-disguise party, that is socially conservative but economically moderate.

Naturally, they think that Turkey's Kurdish population shouldn't have a whole lot of power (or, in the opinions of extremists, should be expelled from Turkey so it can be a pure Turkic nation).

Their opposition to Kurdish Nationalists is less Turkic nationalistism and more a power grab. The AKP sees the threat of Kurdish secession as a risk to the stability of the whole country. Notice, that the AKP was the party that originally obtained the cease fire agreement with the PKK, and that the AKP supports policies that allow for Kurdish language schools and other programs designed specifically to assist/respect the Kurds.

So yeah, Kurds and Erdogan's party don't get along well. I suspect that a fairly large war will break out in Turkey sometime soon.

I disagree. Sure, there is going to be continued fighting, but the HDP can represent the Kurdish voice in Parliament, and there is little hope of Erdogan getting his wish for a Presidential system...at least until the next elections. I think Davetoglu realizes that the AKP has alienated a sizeable portion of the population.

Erdogan's AKP Party is Islamist. They don't believe Islam and democracy are compatible. Nor do I. When will the west wake up to islamism? it is our enemy and it's time for NATO to kick Turkey out of the club.

Personally I think erdogan is a good leader. He may be hungry for power but he is democratically elected and if Turkish people want to give the AKP enough seats to allow him to change the constitution then that's their decision. Its also good news the Kurdish party have representation to allow for democratic debate. I think erdogan has done a good job with the economy and has managed the Syrian crisis relatively well. If I was him though I would push for a Kurdish state in northern Syria to allow a deal with Kurdish extremists to be struck to eliminate violence and terrorism in south east Turkey.

Erodogan's party definitely won big and so his party has the democratic benefit of leading Turkey. But even democratic majorities have an obligation to keep the peace and promote good will and advancement with minority groups, such as the Kurds. Democracies can just easily unravel through violence as they formed through revolution. Democracy is a favorable answer because it is a peaceful and potentially constructive answer to human life and differences.

But reverting to persistent abuse of the Kurds is also a gamble for Turkey.

Bottom line: democracies are held together by a universal idealism of power-sharing and equality, and the hope that life can be good if you cooperate with established law and established government and private institutions. If that perception is lost, democracies can descend into chaos.

It's my view that even elected governments must treat everyone with equality and fairness. That's the only way a stable society can be established.

At 11/11/2015 7:11:43 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:Bottom line: democracies are held together by a universal idealism of power-sharing and equality, and the hope that life can be good if you cooperate with established law and established government and private institutions. If that perception is lost, democracies can descend into chaos.

It's my view that even elected governments must treat everyone with equality and fairness. That's the only way a stable society can be established.

I used to tutor foreign students in English. I had three Turkish students, two women and one male. The women expressed great concern about the Islamist government and their plans to require women to wear head scarfs. They also told me about islamist gangs running around and beating up people in bars for drinking alcohol. The guy told me he was Christian but had to put his religion as Muslim on his license because he didn't want to get hassled by the police if stopped. He showed me his Turkish driving license and it had the religion on it. There's a small example of the difference between a true secular state and one that pretends to be.

At 11/12/2015 2:55:23 AM, lotsoffun wrote:I used to tutor foreign students in English. I had three Turkish students, two women and one male. The women expressed great concern about the Islamist government and their plans to require women to wear head scarfs. They also told me about islamist gangs running around and beating up people in bars for drinking alcohol. The guy told me he was Christian but had to put his religion as Muslim on his license because he didn't want to get hassled by the police if stopped. He showed me his Turkish driving license and it had the religion on it. There's a small example of the difference between a true secular state and one that pretends to be.