Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

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Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

Many people in this forum disagree with the moves or like some and not others. No problem with that. I think why this thread is a lightening rod is the claim that the team should be sold, FO should be fired and that the OP seemingly has inside knowledge that others do not have access to.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

All you homers that don't have a clue about real competitive basketball should lay off someone that has a different opinion than yours. Pacerfreak is right all these moves are lateral moves. We very well could be no better than last year. The Collison trade makes no sense. Even the beat writer for the Mavs was confused by that. They had no interest in resigning this guy. The Bobcats as pitiful as they are had no interest in resigning Augustine. The Green move IMO is worth the risk. Lance is showing what he can do in the summer league. In case anybody is paying attention, he is doing it as a pg with the ball in his hands. That is his strength, that is when his game lights up. Its not when he is standing in a corner like they made him do last year and just take up space. The signing of Augustine tells us that is their plan again this year. So go ahead and waste him and let him leave as soon as his contract is up for a guy who obviously doesn't want to be hear long term and is using us to get a better contract. Stop believing every little misguided rumor about everything and actually take a look at what is going on. The Pacers have no prayer of competing for anything with this kind of nonsense.

Please do not call people names.. After that whole thing I wrote you still don't get it. Lateral move??!! Seriously!? Yes Collison was good but for the freaking 100th time Collison sees himself as a starting pg and he wasn't going to be that here so would you rather keep him for a year and get nothing back or actually get something we needed. As for Jones, I love the guy he was an amazing presence in the locker room but on the floor just wasn't that great. AND we signed Green and Augustin for great contracts who WILL BOTH BE OFF THE BENCH! These guys aren't our starters well at least for now unless one of them proves they are worthy. Forget it just go to the bandwagon heat fan parade a lot are jumping on.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

I don't mean to be rude but ur an idiot. We turned Collison who probably wouldn't have signed next year with us anyways and Jones into Ian Mahinmi who is a good backup center. You realized he is a 7 footer right? So in other words we have Hibbert who we honestly did not overpay for considering Lopez signed a 4 year $61 million dollar deal. Seriously? Hibbert is much better than Lopez too. That means we now have three 7 seven footers on our team who are all skilled in their own ways. Look at NBA rosters a lot are lucky to have one 7 footer who is decent.

Next, we sign Gerald Green who is very underrated. The guy is pure athleticism and can still improve and guess what we signed him for a steal. Also, we signed DJ Augustin for a 1 year deal for 3.5 mil I believe? Which is also a steal.

As for Hill did we overpay? Maybe...but did he prove himself to be a good player and an asset to our team? YES. Therefore, I'm okay with what we paid him.
In conclusion, we basically turned Collison who as I said wouldn't even back after next year and Jones who I like but honestly wasn't that good into a 7 foot monster who is coming off the bench, Gerald Green who can still get better and is pretty impressive, and DJ Augustin who has proven himself to be a good point guard. Oh and guess what...this is out BENCH. You honesly don't know basketball if you don't realized that we now have arguably the best bench in the league. IMO we are going to be scary good next year because guess what...Paul George is only going to get better,Lance is only going to get better,Plumlee will only get better,and Orlando will only get better. Also, it's just another year of our guys playing together and learning to play as a team. Sorry for the rant. GO PACERS!

You have got to be kidding, the best bench in the league. If I remember right people were saying that last year and look what that bench did for us in the playoffs. You do not know what Collison's future with us was, you are guessing. You do not know what Augustine's future with us is. Your back up center that you talk about was a third stringer for most of the year until injury gave him a chance to play. Plumlee with all that talent you seem to see could not play major minutes in college for the best coach in college in four years and produced no numbers. There is a reason for that, I am not sure yet what that is but there is a reason. Although I like us taking a chance on Green he is still not proven anything over the long haul. He played half the season we need to see more. He is a gamble.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

What I am hoping is that the small market teams all wise up. Let the big city teams blow all of their money on the money boys and leave the other, good players for us. I think that you CAN win a title with the second tier players. DET proved that a while back. You don't need a superstar, but you need a whole raft of good players who will play together.

As a lifetime Yankee fan I can tell you I 100% agree. Best money Yanks spent in my lifetime were building, developing and keeping their own farm talent - Jeter, Rivera, Bernie, Pettite, Posada - and then picking up good deals in FA or trades, like "losing" the Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neil deal or signing the very old Wade Boggs or the not impressive Scott Brosius.

When the Yanks went back to nuts on any FA they could find they signed dudes like Clemens, Mussina, ARod, Giambi, or an old school miss like Tartabull. Stat stuffers who aren't clutch, way overpaid, horrible chemistry types. The only high profile guys I can recall them getting and working out are CC, Teixeira and Granderson now and Cone in the 90s.

Rich teams get overconfident with money and do really stupid stuff. Just ask the Knicks.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

You have got to be kidding, the best bench in the league. If I remember right people were saying that last year and look what that bench did for us in the playoffs. You do not know what Collison's future with us was, you are guessing. You do not know what Augustine's future with us is. Your back up center that you talk about was a third stringer for most of the year until injury gave him a chance to play. Plumlee with all that talent you seem to see could not play major minutes in college for the best coach in college in four years and produced no numbers. There is a reason for that, I am not sure yet what that is but there is a reason. Although I like us taking a chance on Green he is still not proven anything over the long haul. He played half the season we need to see more. He is a gamble.

Yes one of the best benches in the league. We all loved Lou and he was decent this new center is better then him. He is tall, athletic, and works hard. You are forgetting that all we really lost this off season IMO was Barbosa and Collison. Barbosa was absolutely terrible in the playoffs and Collison was good but good Lord stop saying that Collison would possibly stay with us b/c he wouldn't have. You realize as soon as Hill took his spot that he got fired up and played better so obviously he wanted his spot back which clearly means he thinks he's a starter. Plus, I'm sure he would ask more than what the Pacers would be willing to pay. Plumlee is a tall/athletic center who is only going to get better. I hated the draft pick at first but the guy has surprised me in the summer league by his offense and his nice little baseline hook type shot. Will he be David West? Heck no. Will he be a Foster type player but better offensively? Very well could be. And as far as all the reports say Augustin is playing with us for 1 year so I kinda do know his future with us. Soooo don't know what the heck you mean there and I would take Augustin over Collison pretty much everyday of the week b/c he is what we needed. We needed a true pg who would distribute the ball and get assists for us. Collison wasn't that guy. Please do ur homework and stop being a debby downer.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

I am not sure who is to blame for all the blunders this off season but one or both of the front office and owner needs to go. We draft a guy the could have been taken with our second round pick. Then we draft a guy with our second round pick that to say has shown nothing is an understatement. Then we way overpay for Hill and Hilbert. Now we trade two players with some trade value for a guy we could have signed as a FA.

The thing in all of this is that we should have gotten more in all of our dealings with other teams. We should have traded back in the draft and picked up an asset. We should have gotten more for DC and Jones. Our starters and bench will still not beat the Heat in a series. Other teams are getting better and we seem to think that making tweaks to the bench will make us world beaters, is just sickening. For whatever reason we are afraid to win in trades or FA. Not sure if it is the owner or front office but we are going nowhere fast. This is coming from a glass is half full person.

You must be drinking from a pretty small glass...

You and I have no clue what offers were on the table for Dahtay and DC... How do you know we could have done better? And sure we could have signed Ian outright but we wouldn't have had the extra cap space to sign Augustin and Green without moving Dahntay and DC... I WTF'd that trade until I realized what else it created for us... And locking up a good backup PF/C for 4m/4 years is very cap friendly...

You and I have no clue if another team would have scooped Plumley up before the second round... And while the jury is not still out on on OJ it's only because the trial hasn't even begun... The kid has played a handful of SUMMER LEAGUE GAMES...

Our starting unit was amazing last year and is completely intact... Hill is not overpaid... Our starters were fantastic with him running the point... Hibbert is on a completely reasonable contract for an all-star center...

And the teams in the league that have made jumps around us did so in situations our small market team could not bear... Nash joined LA because it is LA (close to his kids and an avenue for his post-basketball career goal... Film production)... And the Nets look better because they have the deepest pockets in the league... They may also end up regretting picking up Johnson... And the Knicks improved for both of those reasons... It's New York and deep pockets... Am I leaving anyone out here?

As others have suggested if you want to see your team make giant splashes in trades and FA you are better off not being a Pacers fan... This team will have to become great through good drafting and smart economic strategies in FA and on the trade front... Sorry buddy but we are always going to be underdogs at best... And I kind of like it that way... It will make strong seasons (and a title run?) that much sweeter...

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

Move somewhere else and/or support a different team. Kevin Pritchard has truly made some good moves. Yes, getting something else for DC and Dahntay would have been nice. But Mahinmi (despite no one knowing him, nor how to pronounce his name) is a long, athletic center, which we've needed. Bringing Green in means that we'll be more exciting to the "casual fan", as well as have a much better scorer behind Paul and Danny, which we needed. Picking up DJ Augustin was the best part of the whole thing (despite my Green favoritism) because we needed a point guard who can and will willing distribute, particularly to our newfound bench of much better scorers.

I can agree that picking Miles Plumlee was disappointing while Perry Jones III was still on the board, but sometimes you have to trust the team. That wasn't just Pritch and Bird reaching for someone they thought was good, it was Vogel putting his blessing on a player that he felt they, as a team, needed. Someone like Foster, who plays dirty, sets screens, at least tries to rebound, gets to the basket, and can dunk the ball on occasion. I'm not as disappointed with this offseason's moves than I was earlier, because it's all paying off.

If you can't handle the Pacers, get outta Naptown.

Where in the world do you get that Plumlee plays like Foster. He has nowhere the energy and does not do the dirty work. That 40" verticle that everyone says he has is a myth. If he had a 40' verticle his head would be 6" above the rim. If I could get my head 6" above the rim, I would make sure someone videotaped and plastered it in front of everyone. PacerFreak could be wrong, I might be wrong and so could you. Nobody knows yet but stop calling people names because they disagree with you. It doesn't make you anymore of a fan than any of us.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

Where in the world do you get that Plumlee plays like Foster. He has nowhere the energy and does not do the dirty work. That 40" verticle that everyone says he has is a myth. If he had a 40' verticle his head would be 6" above the rim. If I could get my head 6" above the rim, I would make sure someone videotaped and plastered it in front of everyone. PacerFreak could be wrong, I might be wrong and so could you. Nobody knows yet but stop calling people names because they disagree with you. It doesn't make you anymore of a fan than any of us.

Last time I checked when they measure someones verticle they don't accidentally just add a foot or so. You jump and hit the top marker you can on a pole type thing and it measures how high you got. I've played basketball since I was 5 years old I've done the dumb drill over and over again.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

I love what the pacers have done. The knicks have had a sad off season. They have signed a bunch of old guys. Hppefully the biggest flaw with the Pacers has been fixed which was those long scoring droughts they kept having last season.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

You have got to be kidding, the best bench in the league. If I remember right people were saying that last year and look what that bench did for us in the playoffs. You do not know what Collison's future with us was, you are guessing. You do not know what Augustine's future with us is. Your back up center that you talk about was a third stringer for most of the year until injury gave him a chance to play. Plumlee with all that talent you seem to see could not play major minutes in college for the best coach in college in four years and produced no numbers. There is a reason for that, I am not sure yet what that is but there is a reason. Although I like us taking a chance on Green he is still not proven anything over the long haul. He played half the season we need to see more. He is a gamble.

The FO's only job is to make sure the team that they put out on the court is better than the team they put on the court the year before. You're welcome.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

Moron. After that whole thing I wrote you still don't get it. Lateral move??!! Seriously!? Yes Collison was good but for the freaking 100th time Collison sees himself as a starting pg and he wasn't going to be that here so would you rather keep him for a year and get nothing back or actually get something we needed. As for Jones, I love the guy he was an amazing presence in the locker room but on the floor just wasn't that great. AND we signed Green and Augustin for great contracts who WILL BOTH BE OFF THE BENCH! These guys aren't our starters well at least for now unless one of them proves they are worthy. Forget it just go to the bandwagon heat fan parade a lot are jumping on.

First of all stop calling me names. Yes Collison sees himself as a starter. Anyone that have been a starter for the entire season should see himself as that. You think for one minute Augustine don't see himself as a starter. You think for 1 minute he is not coming hear to compete for that job. Anyone with a competitive nature will compete to prove they are that guy. If they don't then you should not want them. I am not even a Collison fan but I believe he is a good kid and would have done his best to earn that spot back. If management is willing to hand out a big contract and just hand someone that job because of it is wrong. Let them compete for it and it will make both of them stronger. What some people are saying is that we could have acquired more assets for these moves and small market teams need all the assets they can get and if you can't understand that then who is the moron.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

The FO's only job is to make sure the team that they put out on the court is better than the team they put on the court the year before. You're welcome.

And you are only assuming that they have done that. You have no idea whether they have or they haven't and neither do I. It is just our opinions and nothing else. I hope I am wrong but I don't believe I am.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

How good or bad this offseason has been depends on how you look at it. You could say:
1. The Plumlee pick was ridiculous and a huge reach.
2. We resigned Roy and George Hill for way too much money.
3. We traded a starting point guard and a strong defender for an ok back up center.
4. We signed a guy that couldn't even make it in the NBA originally and the point guard from the worst team in the history of the NBA.

Or you could look at it like:
1. We drafted one of the most athletic 7' players ever and he is playing solidly in the summer league.
2. We signed an all star center and a guy who actually wants to play for Indiana.
3. We strengthed our bench and now we don't have to get destroyed with amundson playing.
4. We got a solid point guard who can distribute the ball, as well as add scoring to the second unit.
5. Gerald Green +Paul George (maybe Plumlee if he gets to play and actually proves to us that he owns a 40" vert)= Lob City 2?

We really aren't going to know what's going to happen until we get to see this team play. For all we know, the players we just acquired turn in to huge studs, because they got put in the right situation.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

Last time I checked when they measure someones verticle they don't accidentally just add a foot or so. You jump and hit the top marker you can on a pole type thing and it measures how high you got. I've played basketball since I was 5 years old I've done the dumb drill over and over again.

Then you know if you can get your head above the rim, you would want someone to see it.

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Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

Does Mommy know you are on her computer, making several fake troll accounts? This site is for actually basketball fans, specifically (I know, it's a big word) Pacer fans. When I was a kid, we would go outside and play. You should try that sometimes, instead of getting Cheeto dust all over Mommy's 'puter, trying to start internet fights, pal.

Re: Either the front office needs to go or the owner needs to sale the team.

And you are only assuming that they have done that. You have no idea whether they have or they haven't and neither do I. It is just our opinions and nothing else. I hope I am wrong but I don't believe I am.

Agreed! These are all assumptions and opinions that were making, it's just that some of us are taking a "London Bridge is falling" approach. Crying and complaining about what you think the FO could have done is not making your stance any more fact than what what I feel to be solid upgrades. They aren't all star caliber upgrades but they werent meant to be. We had been told directly by the FO that the bench would be a priority.