Tim: (Tim turns and looks) Yeaaah…it was nice. But anyway, so he said, “You should do a violent character like Grips.” I said, “Hmm…well if I did a character like that I wouldn’t want it to be like Grips” because I thought the back-story behind Grips was stupid. So David had an idea to do a play, or something like that, of Faust?

David: I was a playwright - University, Regional and Off-off-Broadway -- at the time and I was very interested in comics. Wouk, a Brooklyn comics retailer with good business instincts, introduced us and I saw a great opportunity to turn some of the ideas that were not quite working as theater into comics. So that’s where some of the “hell” ideas came in and we put it together as a true improvisation. We just talked about who was going to be in the story, what the story was going to be like…

Tim: Sitting down in the cellar?

David: (laughter)

Tim: When we were doing Omega. We started talking about Faust. For about three months in the summer I stayed in New York and we pretty much bashed out Faust right then and there.

J: So it was really collaboration more than just David had the idea?

David: Oh yeah – a collision of ideas from both of us, and not self-consciously organized, more direct to the page. Primal Theater had been what I had tried to do onstage, with what seemed to me, limited returns. This was a fresh start, and very exciting.

Tim: We did the first small, four-page story that summer.

J: Is that why they say the first appearance of Faust is in Omega?

David: That’s where it came out, right? Omega #1?

Tim: It was the premiere.

David: Premiere.

J: So was the whole story kind of plotted out ahead of time or did it kind of organically grow as the years passed?

David: Well, really both. We kind of knew the general shape of the entire story, but then to be more specific there were sometimes examples of where we would talk about something, I would do a script and by the time Tim would take the script and turn it into storytelling layouts it was time to redo the script, because the story continued to evolve. So with the last issue, Act 15, that we finished this summer, the story was changing right up until the last minute. Yet at the same time, some of it has been around for years. Either the writing was there or a drawing was there or the idea was there for decades.

J: So after all this time has passed, what would you say is the main storyline within Faust or the main message or meaning?

Tim: We all get a second chance and you got to take it. That’s what it gets down to.

David: One thing I really hang on to from the story is “reality is up for grabs.” The characters learn that in the story and Tim and I have really learned that you have to make your own life.

J: I’ve always seen Faust as one of the books that redefined what comic books could be, how it changed the perception that comic books were just for kids. Was this an intentional motivation or was it just a by-product of the story you guys were telling? Were you consciously aware that you were trying to redefine things or were you just doing what was fun and meaningful to yourselves as creators?

David: I think we just did the kind of book that we wanted to see. So rather than setting out to…

J: It wasn’t like you were trying to shock people or be rebellious?

David: …be historical, we were just making the book we wanted…

Tim: We weren’t trying to shock people. I mean, we knew there was some extreme stuff in it, but we were just doing what we wanted to do…

(Guy runs up to table and picks up a sketchbook he accidentally forgot and then runs away)

David: (as the guy was running away, David yells out) Don’t lose Sean! (the kid that was with the guy) (laughter)

J: I think he already did! (more laughter)

David: His whole box of comics…”Oh, and my kid too!” (more laughter)

J: So would you say at the time Faust came out that there was nothing really like that?

Tim: Grips had violence in it and that was popular with the book, so I just kept doing what I liked to do.

David: There were comics out at the time that were dealing with complicated storytelling. Watchmen was out then, as was a book by Howard Chaykin called American Flagg. So there were, you know…

J: So that wasn’t your intention like, “Oh, let’s make something over the top” and…

David: No, and in fact Tim was talking yesterday, if we did it now, to make another sort of breakthrough, history making book, you’d really have to take off in another direction or it would feel contrived. Like, “What could we do to shock people now?” That would be kind of contrived. We could still do it as an experiment, but it wouldn’t have the heart and soul of Faust, which really just came from us without to much self-consciousness.

J: And what do you think was the necessity of having the kind of extreme gore and sex? How did that fuel the story?

Tim: It was just drawn that way. I just drew it. Well there’s always the principle in horror or anything scary, if you hear a scream behind a door: is it scarier if you hear it or is it scarier if you look in? And my whole philosophy of my horror was when you go inside and you see it and show it…and that’s what I was drawing.

David: In the theater I was writing before I was writing comics I was trying the same thing. I would hit some walls with people because they would even say things, which sounded ridiculous to me, which they meant sincerely, they would say, “You’re such a nice person, why don’t you write something nice?” Well, I’m trying to be a dramatist. I’m trying to go to a specific place. When I finally met Clive Barker I thought, “Ah, here’s someone I understand.” He’s gentle and nice, but he was writing fiercely - some of the most taboo stuff I had ever read before I was writing Faust. Clive’s always had good things to say in support of our work, too; in 25 years in comics, I find the truly great talents are always the most generous. And the opposite is true as well.

J: How much inspiration did you take from the actual Faust story or legend? Was that a big part of the inspiration for Love of the Damned?

David: Well it is one of the mothers of all stories. There’s the revenge story, the sell your soul and try to win it back story, there’s the coming of age story, there’s the love story, you know, there’s like the mother load of stories where they all descend from. We did literally take the name. I remember suggesting it to Tim and he was gung ho for it, so that was great. Call it what it is. But we didn’t try to make too many line-by-line hookups that are in Goethe’s or Marlowe’s versions of Faust.

J: So in the story is that actually what happens, that Jaspers sells his soul to the devil?

Tim: Well Dr. Faustus.

J: And why did he do it? What was his reasoning for it? I can’t remember, because I haven’t read it in such a long time.

David: Well, it’s not explicit in the book. It’s anger and hunger and dissatisfaction with his life. It’s the human condition.

Tim: It’s also that there was like an assassination bureau that M put together, kind of bringing in these lost people to do his bidding and Jaspers kind of shined with that. But he started getting over-edged and thinking he was like, “Oh yeah, I’m better than what my maker is” kind of a thing.

David: You know some of it was not very literal in the book and not very linear either. I mentioned some of the complicated storytelling we were reading in the 80’s and we were sort of playing with that. Jaspers is really out of his mind in the first few issues and the book has sort of a trippy feel where things are not super-linear and not super-telegraphed by a narrator telling you what you’re going to see before you see it. You see it, you hear the voices and you sort of figure it out after. I know this was a little confusing for people, but for me, as a dramatist, I was like really excited by that, especially at the time. I don’t know. That sounds a little precious and mechanical now, but it was something I was really interested in putting into print, in pictures and words, because I wanted to have sort of a primal, emotional experience in comics that I wasn’t getting from some of the just purely intellectual or purely visceral comics that were out there. Not that this isn’t also something to think about and a lot of body stuff to deal with and feel, but you know what I’m saying. It was a feeling of trying to get something primal.

J: So would you say now that it’s all wrapped up that you’ve told the story you wanted to tell, in the way you wanted it to be told? Or do you look back at it like, “Oh, maybe we could have done that different” or do you think it’s had enough time to become what you envisioned?

David: We worked really hard to finish up every aspect of the story and revisit certain images, characters, moments, emotions, musical tones, people, places and things. We really tried to wrap everything up so that everything earned its own ending. Whether we did or not will be up to the readers to judge themselves, but I think that’s what we worked on. I really wouldn’t redo anything. You could always redo everything, just like a musical performance could be played in a few different ways. I don’t know. What do you think Tim? We did it the way we did it and that’s this thing.

J: Do you feel a sense of satisfaction in what it is and what it became?

David: Oh yes.

Tim: Well after twenty-five years I look back at it going, “Well, some of my art stinks and thank god I got better”, but if there was something I was going to redo or have done better would be some of the art. But, you know, it was our life in this industry right there.

David: You know sometimes if you redo things you kill something about what made it alive in the first place.

Tim: Right.

David: I’m thinking of the Star Wars redos or some of the Neal Adams comics I’ve seen that he’s re-colored – was it worth the effort? Why not do something new?Tim: It had what it had and even though I could have always improved the artwork, people enjoyed it. So, it was what it was.

David: There were some issues we did in the very beginning through Northstar where we didn’t have hands-on proof reading of certain things and so there’s some lettering mistakes and stuff like that. You can always fix that, but I’d resist the temptation to like wipe out the old zip-a-tone or…what’s that stuff called?

Tim: Duo-shade.

David: Or wipe out the duo-shade and replace it with Photoshop, because you know, it was what it was, it is what it was, you know.

J: That actually lead to another question for Tim. How has your artistic process changed over the years?

Tim: I just got better. I learned more and was able to convey more subtle emotions in characters and situations. Just basically got better and still being able to be individualistic about it, not caring about if it sells or not. You’re just doing the story and letting the audience judge it for what it is. It’s nice that it’s over with though.

J: So now that it’s all over, what are you guys planning next?

David: As far as a collaboration between the two of us? Because we’re both always working on all sorts of things and we never get together where we don’t brainstorm six ideas of something we could do. But we haven’t decided what we’re doing next as far as like our very next heading-to-the-printer book that we work on together.

J: What’s this children’s book thing we’ve heard about?

David: Well, we brainstormed a good piece of a children’s book that Tim’s done some character designs for and I’ve done some additional writing on.

J: (to Tim) Was that the bear we saw on Facebook?

Tim: No, that was just doodles (chuckles to himself). I was feeling bear-ish.

David: You know, we’re the kind of people that have a friendship based on co-creating, so it’s a big part of what we do. It’s like the game we play when we get together. So we’ll always be creating things together.

J: Now is the children’s book something that’s already moving along or…

Tim: What children’s book is this? (To David) What is it?

David: The kid with the star and the stuff in her room…

Tim: Ohhh, yeah.

David:…and the stuff comes to life. That’s like the main children’s book idea that we’ve talked about.

Tim: I wasn’t sure if that was it or “Ghost Boy”.

David: Oh, yeeeah, “Ghost Boy”. See, we talked about that too! See, this is what we do. And Tim has done some design work on The Romeros – think Gorillaz, but Dead. My zombie, punk rock band, a trans-media concept across comics, merchandise and music. And he’s got a million things he’s working on himself. He’s always working on something.

J: This is an actual band?

David: Yeah.

J: Are you in it?

David: Yeah. I sing and write songs. That was another piece of my background. My college years, besides theater I also fronted a series of punk rock bands.

J: You were in a punk rock band?

David: Oh yeah.

J: What was the name of it?

David: Dolce Vita was the best known. We played from ’82 to ’86 and made a record produced by guitar god Chris Spedding. If you saw Billy Idol, Lene Lovitch or Thompson Twins on the East Coast, you might have seen us as the warm-up. You can find stuff online about it, chiefly under Chris Spedding, who has played with Beatles and Stones and everyone else. Quinn trivia, folks. But not just trivia – I credit punk rock with helping me find that primal writing voice I was talking about.

J: I thought of another question…

Tim: 10-inches.

J: 10-inches? What? Oh…10-inches…(laughter)

Tim: That wasn’t one of your questions?

J: Uhhh, no. So anyway, at the end of Faust, in Act 15, I heard that you wanted Claire to utter something, shall we say, “particular.” I was wondering what the reasoning behind her saying this was.

David: I’ll answer that if Tim says what it was in the original German.

J: This is a question I’ve heard before and that I’m also interested in. Do you think we’ll ever see a collected, all fifteen issues, super-deluxe hardcover? Or would it be cost prohibitive?

David: Seems inevitable, because there’s a demand for it, but we have to do it right. We’d be proud to have it in the libraries of collectors, including our own. We published this year’s new comics this year ourselves, but we’re talking to some publishing partners that could help us do a project like that. People also suggested “crowd funding”, which I’ve done a little research into, but I might also recommend that we just go with another publishing partner. As I said, we will see what’s the reality of the market with the partnerships available to us.

I have to interject, here, at the risk of overstating the obvious, our books have become very hard to find in today’s distribution system. If readers looking for these books want them to continue, it’s important to let your local comic shop know you want them, or they’ll be extinct. Pre-orders are our lifeline, because gone are the days of print runs of 50,000. That’s a Batman number now, I think. Can’t find ‘em? Check the resources on the Faust: Love of the Damned Facebook page.

David: I think where it really, really seems to work is where you have a very specific project, with really good incentives and the work is very close to finished, so supporters who pledge to contribute know it’s not going to take forever to hold something in their hands. And your budget is really, just like in any other business plan, organized and real and realistic. Someone we know from the old days, who actually did a cover of Nightvision for us, Tony Harris, funded his dream project Roundeye because one, it looks cool, and personal and two, because his budget wasn’t insane. So maybe for something like a classic, high-end reprint of work that’s already done with nice incentives, like David Quinn will read your work and critique it for you or Tim Vigil will give you an art class for a certain level of donation, you know, with creative ideas like that it could be a possibility.

J: What do you think the price point would be on a book like that?

David: Depends on what it is. If it’s bound in flesh and looks like the Faustian Bible or if it has a cover made out of flesh (laughter) or something like that, you know… if it was just a hardcover, maybe you would want to do something like a box-set of two volumes, similar to like the DC Archives or Marvel Masterworks, with maybe a little higher end printing.

(Side note about the possible hardcover, collected book: Tim was talking with two fans about it later that day. He said something like (paraphrasing), “I already have the idea for the cover. It would be Faust’s (or maybe he said Jaspers’) face kind of stitched onto it, so it looks like his face his sewn to the cover.”)

J: Here’s another question. You were saying that the ultimate storyline in Faust is about how reality is up for grabs or that we all create our own reality. Could you elaborate on that a little more?

David: Well it’s something that John Jaspers says. Sometimes it’s interesting to have wisdom come from someone who is imperfect, but wisdom that you could actually adapt and make good practical use of in your life, even though it’s said by someone who is damned and shredded and fucked up (laughter). However, he is true to himself and he discovers that reality is up for grabs. So it’s something you could say in a lot of ways. You could say, “think for yourself” or you could say, “you’re responsible to create your own world.” I’m not trying to get pretentious, but I think there is some meaning there. It’s a little hard to talk about actually, because when you dramatize something, if it could be distilled to a simple message, then why bother? It’s a drama. It’s a little more complex than that. It has different shades of gray. But I also went to college (laughter) and think about things like, “What does it mean?” the things we write about in English class (laughter).

J: So are there philosophical underpinnings that…

(A guy walks up and we have to pause the interview)

J: So back to the question about philosophical things..

David: Oh, god.

J: Well we left off there. It was a cliffhanger.

David: I’m not good at philosophical questions. That should come through the drama. I think of stories and characters.

J: No, no, I know. I was just wondering about the whole “reality is up for grabs” thing. Does that have some kind of philosophical underpinnings that…

Tim: Isn’t that kind of like the you-choose-your-own-destiny kind of thing?

J: So I was just wondering, did that have some influence in your ideas for Faust?

David: I would say they all informed us… but I think about it as much as fish think about being wet.

Tim: We wanted it to end with a kind of moral answer to the whole thing; something that you could walk away with and learn from it all.

(Another guy walks up and starts talking to Tim about watercolor brushes)

J: Wait…I have a million questions!

Tim: And you only got through five. (laughter)

J: Are you doing any other work right now with any other publishers?

David: Not work-for-hire, but my own concepts, yeah. Not other people’s characters. And it’s not just a philosophical choice, it’s just that I’m not in touch with those people anymore. I stopped work for hire when I started my marketing consulting business, because if I was going to sell my time building other people’s branded content, I was going to be well paid. Back in what’s left of the American Super-hero ™ Plantation, the younger editors don’t know me and they don’t think of me.

J: So with Faust, I know that Tim had said with the Avatar stories that those were kind of created afterwards as a sort of add-on, but that the Love of the Damned storyline was supposed to have a definite end. So now that it’s all wrapped up, is that it and we’ll never see any more Faust again?

David: Never say never. Nothing’s on the schedule till we solicit it… but we’ve been plot-jamming other stories with these characters already… they just won’t quit us.

Tim: You might have to wait like another ten years. (laughter)

David: (laughing) Just to make sure it’s totally forgotten! (more laughter) But seriously, if we make it fun for ourselves, throwing out new ideas and new challenges, hopefully it will be fun for readers, too. Nothing on the schedule yet, to repeat. Don’t start asking my Facebook page when its coming, Jay.

Tim: We’re just going to take all this money we got and head to the beach! (laughter) And sun tan!

David: Forward our mail there – the price is right. (more laughter)

(The interview abruptly ends here, as another person came to the table to talk. After this we had pretty much exhausted the conversation and ended up just talking casually “off the record” without recording anything.)

Special thanks to David and Tim for allowing me to sit with them and for taking the time to answer my questions (and to David for proofing and editing this final version of the interview)! Hopefully you all enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed conducting it.