Many on this board, some of whom I have a great deal of respect for, have declared war on the "Post Workout Window" and have dismissed it to be nothing more than faulty bro-logic.

I have also read the adverserial studies and they are compelling in support of this mindset.

As an OLD GUY, I have learned to sit back, read all the opinions/studies (new and old) and make a more well-rounded, common-sense-based decision as I have seen this back and forth cycle go on for just about every theory in bodybuilding be it about training styles OR dieting advice.

It NEVER fails, someone, somewhere claims to have either found a newer, better way by debunking the currrent/conventional approach or has returned to what was once cool, is now cool again approach.

Can we really argue that all the competitive bodybuilders who have espoused the old school way of eating (6-8 meals a day, carbs needed in the PWO window) since the 70's are really that wrong? Don't they "prove" to some degree that this regimine works by stepping on stage at 275 peeled?

I don't care who you are and how much gear you are on, you simply cannot compete with the big boys unless your diet in dialed in (thus, using a logical and time-tested regimen).

While the very definition of a "dialed in diet" certainly varies from bb'er to bb'er, I would venture to say 90% of the guys that have EVER stepped on stage have applied the" now debunked BRO-LOGIC wisdom" of yester-year approach (6-8 meals, 300+ protein, carbs PWO)

Can we really argue with success?

It should be noted that I am a low carb guy and have never been leaner since I dropped the PWO carbs but I could also never step on stage and it's become nearly impossible for me to get sub-8% despite the RIGID dieting (low carbs) so I am NOT the type of bb'er one should emulate as I am in the small minority who does not do well at all with any carbs at all. I do believe in some sort of need to add nutrition post workout be it BCAA's or Protein at a minimum. Again, since I am a low carb guy, I cannot discuss the benefits, or lack there of, of maximizing an anabolic state using carbs PWO.

A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"Proverbs 1:7

Many on this board, some of whom I have a great deal of respect for, have declared war on the "Post Workout Window" and have dismissed it to be nothing more than faulty bro-logic.

I have also read the adverserial studies and they are compelling in support of this mindset.

As an OLD GUY, I have learned to sit back, read all the opinions/studies (new and old) and make a more well-rounded, common-sense-based decision as I have seen this back and forth cycle go on for just about every theory in bodybuilding be it about training styles OR dieting advice.

It NEVER fails, someone, somewhere claims to have either found a newer, better way by debunking the currrent/conventional approach or has returned to what was once cool, is now cool again approach.

Can we really argue that all the competitive bodybuilders who have espoused the old school way of eating (6-8 meals a day, carbs needed in the PWO window) since the 70's are really that wrong? Don't they "prove" to some degree that this regimine works by stepping on stage at 275 peeled?

I don't care who you are and how much gear you are on, you simply cannot compete with the big boys unless your diet in dialed in (thus, using a logical and time-tested regimen).

While the very definition of a "dialed in diet" certainly varies from bb'er to bb'er, I would venture to say 90% of the guys that have EVER stepped on stage have applied the" now debunked BRO-LOGIC wisdom" of yester-year approach (6-8 meals, 300+ protein, carbs PWO)

Can we really argue with success?

It should be noted that I am a low carb guy and have never been leaner since I dropped the PWO carbs but I could also never step on stage and it's become nearly impossible for me to get sub-8% despite the RIGID dieting (low carbs) so I am NOT the type of bb'er one should emulate as I am in the small minority who does not do well at all with any carbs at all. I do believe in some sort of need to add nutrition post workout be it BCAA's or Protein at a minimum. Again, since I am a low carb guy, I cannot discuss the benefits, or lack there of, of maximizing an anabolic state using carbs PWO.

I think the anabolic window is largely a production of the supplement company. You gotta have FAST acting protein and FAST acting carbs or else you'll miss your chance to grow. Heck if you don't have a ton of fast acting carbs and fast acting protein directly after lifting you may as well not lift. You got that ONE chance bro to get this done.

Bunch of BS I say. I haven't seen much difference from cutting out carbs post-workout (wait I am leaner from it). I haven't seen much difference from not having casein right before bed (but bro, you gotta have the slow acting stuff before bed!).

If you want to take carbs I think the night time is the right time (according to recent studies) so I might not fear them here. I wouldn't be afraid to get a nice meal in after training. And no I don't think if you waited one hour and one minute instead of just one hour that you would turn into a beanpole!

Could NOT agree more. Just look at the old examples of prison dudes that are able to gain mass all the time on '2 squares per day'. That said, it is 100% BS with ZERO basis? I don't think so, I just think it's HIGHLY exagerrated. I think it helps to supplement pre/post (maybe peri) workout but HOW MUCH does it help? Beats me! Whether it's 0.00001 % or 10%.....we will never know.

I think the anabolic window is largely a production of the supplement company. You gotta have FAST acting protein and FAST acting carbs or else you'll miss your chance to grow. Heck if you don't have a ton of fast acting carbs and fast acting protein directly after lifting you may as well not lift. You got that ONE chance bro to get this done.

Bunch of BS I say. I haven't seen much difference from cutting out carbs post-workout (wait I am leaner from it). I haven't seen much difference from not having casein right before bed (but bro, you gotta have the slow acting stuff before bed!).

If you want to take carbs I think the night time is the right time (according to recent studies) so I might not fear them here. I wouldn't be afraid to get a nice meal in after training. And no I don't think if you waited one hour and one minute instead of just one hour that you would turn into a beanpole!

It would really help if people actually read the studies and not just the titles/abstracts of them.

as long as it fits your caloric goals then i see no reason not to consume pro/food/carbs pre bed.....i dont believe in the anabolic window but do use aminos intra/post

Originally Posted by Whacked

Could NOT agree more. Just look at the old examples of prison dudes that are able to gain mass all the time on '2 squares per day'. That said, it is 100% BS with ZERO basis? I don't think so, I just think it's HIGHLY exagerrated. I think it helps to supplement pre/post (maybe peri) workout but HOW MUCH does it help? Beats me! Whether it's 0.00001 % or 10%.....we will never know.

It would really help if people actually read the studies and not just the titles/abstracts of them.

Agreed with all. Curious how the anabolic window was reduced to 1 hour postworkout when the study they used to extrapolate this info took the subjects to a different facility and tested them THREE hours postworkout.

http://pescience.com/
http://selectprotein.com/
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

Agreed with all. Curious how the anabolic window was reduced to 1 hour postworkout when the study they used to extrapolate this info took the subjects to a different facility and tested them THREE hours postworkout.

Ever tried not to eat for the 5-6h after working out ?Here comes big DOMS.

Ever tried to not eat for the 5-6h after working out ?
Here comes big DOMS.

No, but I fail to see where Cooper (or any of us) are arguing for going 6 hours without a meal post-workout. Note the difference between me saying "you don't need all this protein/carbs immediately after working out" to me saying you don't need to eat for 6 hours after working out. I'll snap a protein shake down when I get home and I'll have a nice meal later on after that. But I'm not getting a speeding ticket going home lest I miss the "anabolic window" and wither away.

Geo - Im with ya buddy but I THINK (not sure) that 3utcher MIGHT be discussing logic based on all the very popular IM-fasting threads abound these days (16 hours of fasting)?

Again, I think all this nonsense these days is overly rigid and over-rated. However, I also think IF someone wants to dial in or plan for the best case scenario, and maximize his/her gains, taking seemingly insignificant things into account like macro-timing, protein-timing, macro-ratio's, positive nitro-balance, DOMS, etc....all play "some" role in one's approach to acquiring an optimal physique, I am just not certain how significant.

Besides driving yourself nuts by timing everything and effectively alientaing your family and friends (lol), I see no harm in the obsessive practice and to be honest, perhaps some benefits are gleened by fostering such a disciplined approach to bb'ing; albeit, it's still borerline INSANITY.

Originally Posted by 3utcher

Ever tried to not eat for the 5-6h after working out ?
Here comes big DOMS.

Originally Posted by Geoforce

No, but I fail to see where Cooper (or any of us) are arguing for going 6 hours without a meal post-workout. Note the difference between me saying "you don't need all this protein/carbs immediately after working out" to me saying you don't need to eat for 6 hours after working out. I'll snap a protein shake down when I get home and I'll have a nice meal later on after that. But I'm not getting a speeding ticket going home lest I miss the "anabolic window" and wither away.

A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"Proverbs 1:7

Geo - Im with ya buddy but I THINK (not sure) that 3utcher MIGHT be discussing logic based on all the very popular IM-fasting threads abound these days (16 hours of fasting)?

Maybe. I know I do lean gains (16 hour fasting) and never go that long without eating post-workout. But I train during my eating window anyways. I've never really trained fasted and then continued the fast. I'm sure the lean gains threads has plenty of people that have/are.

IM-fasting sure seems very popular these days so there has to be something to it. OR, to play devil's advocate, perhaps people have been successful on it just by virtue of sticking to SOME form of diet as opposed to shoveling whatever, whenever, down their pie whole with little restraint or thought processes

A-Minds HYPE-SLAYER! All posts & feedback are guaranteed to be unsolicited and legit
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge. Fools despise wisdom & instruction"Proverbs 1:7

IM-fasting sure seems very popular these days so there has to be something to it. OR, to play devil's advocate, perhaps people have been successful on it just by virtue of sticking to SOME form of diet as opposed to shoveling whatever, whenever, down their pie whole with little restraint or thought processes

Maybe, but I'd argue a huge part of a diets success rate is people's ability to stick to it. If IF is easier for people to stick to and on other diets they end up shoveling whatever down then clearly IF works for those people.

No, but I fail to see where Cooper (or any of us) are arguing for going 6 hours without a meal post-workout. Note the difference between me saying "you don't need all this protein/carbs immediately after working out" to me saying you don't need to eat for 6 hours after working out. I'll snap a protein shake down when I get home and I'll have a nice meal later on after that. But I'm not getting a speeding ticket going home lest I miss the "anabolic window" and wither away.

Quite well. Ive always been lean though and my metabolisim flies so this may not apply to everyone. I like the dextrose as my simple carbs for the insulin spike and it helps my appetite post. I dont use rtd's or protein powders i try and get it all from food,and an occasional metrx big 100 super cookie crunch theyre the beeees kneeeeees