Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.
The following are logical arguments, which go against Virendra Dev Dixit being personified ShivBaba.

1. Virendra Dev Dixit was first addressed as Virendra Bhai when he started narrating his advance knowledge....how the transformation of brother from Father (Baba) took place has never been explained so far.... In the lokik world a elder brother can never never become a Father (however much he takes care of his younger brothers)....but in the alokik world, PBKs have transformed a brother into a Father and are expecting to get inheritance from their elder brother.(so called Father)....PBKs are being dis-illusioned at present and will be a dis-appointed lot in the end when they find out their mistake....and those who have found out that fact are leaving the Advance Party and making other PBKs aware of this fact.

2. Virendra Dev Dixit was man-handled and thrown out of madhuban physically after he started his ambigious clarifications of Murlis. No soul on earth has the power to touch/throw out Sarva-shaktivaan God Shiva from the institution which God has himself founded.

3. Virendra Dev Dixit first formed a small group of about 55 PBKs with his neo advance knowledge in 1976(in Delhi) and immediately Virendra Dev Dixit went underground on a all-India jismani yatra from 1976 to 1981 preaching his neo-advance knowledge to individual bk students....while Murlis say that Father comes and takes the children on a ruhani yatra(spiritual journey)....Omnipotent GOD never goes on a bodily journey to his children, as it is said that omnipotent BapDada is waiting for his children in avaykt vatan and that children have to become avaykt to have meeting with avaykt BapDada.

4. Virendra Dev Dixit was first arrested in 1997 on false charges of electricity theft and alleged rape charges.....All these charges can be wrongly alleged to any human being, but not on the Chariot of God who is supposed to be revealed as God ShivBaba in future.

5. During the police arrest which took place in Kampil in 1997, i was with Baba Dixit(with another brother) in the same room from where he was dragged out and man-handled and slapped by one police officer.....before the arrest we both(myself and brother) saw profound fear on Baba Dixit's face and his actions.....he was repeatedly trying to phone and plead to the politicians and higher authorities to prevent his arrest.....If omnipotent Shiva was in Baba Dixit he should have surrendered peacefully with sakshi bhav and there should have been no fear on his face, as it is said in Vanis that ''satyataa ki shakti se nirbhaytaa swatah hi aa jaati hai''....but none of the powers/virtues of Shiva were seen in the Chariot of GOD-Baba Dixit, at the time when they were needed the most.

6. Also it is said in Murlis that "Naa dukh lo, naa dukh do."("Neither give sorrow nor take sorrow")...this point is not inculcated by baba Dixit during the shooting period.... i have seen two occasions when Baba Dixit has given sorrow and taken sorrow upon himself : one when Baba Dixit slapped one sister at Amrit-vela(in Kampil) for a very flimsy reason and the sister shouted "mar dalo, mar dalo" (kill me, kill me)....and the other occasion, when a police officer slapped Baba Dixit when he was arrested in Kampil.....if Baba Dixit was Chariot of God Shiva, then HE should have showed compassion and mercy towards the sister for her flimsy mistake (instead of slapping her and giving her sorrow)....and secondly, no soul on earth has the power to slap the Chariot of GOD whatsoever be the reason.....in the early days of the Yagya, even Lekhraj Kirpalani was opposed and a sikh tried to cause him harm, when he saw the face of guru nanak in Lekhraj Kirpalani, he bowed down to him and asked for his forgiveness. (as the story goes in bk books)

7. According to Shrimat, Godly students are not permitted to buy land and property in their names but here we see The Chariot of God Baba Dixit himself setting a wrong example by buying land and property in his own name....how can someone preach what he does not practice.....God does not come on this earth to buy property and build ashrams of concrete, but he comes to transform souls in such a way, that they become living khudayee-khidmatgaar.(angels--farishtas)spreading the message of God, wherever they go.

8. Baba Dixit has been involved in rape cases and income-tax cases ever since 1997 and the brothers have been working hard with the paper-work and the concerned authorities to solve these cases.....i do not know whether this is the purusharth they are doing to become karmatit a-shariri stage or this is just a futile exercise(gadhayee) which is taking them away from the real effort of achieving a bodiless soul-conscious stage.....God and his children involved in defending the rape cases and solving income-tax cases instead of putting in effort for self-study/self-transformation/world-transformation.

9. In Murli it is said: "Bap kabhi kissi ki ninda nahin karte."("Father does not criticise anyone")..but here we see the supposed God and his children openly criticising BKs and senior Dadis/Didis and even the Chariot Lekhraj Kirpalani (who is supposed to play a motherly role according to adv-Gyan)

10. Last but not the least, till date, Virendra Dev Dixit has not exhibited any qualities/powers of Supreme Soul Shiva with his behaviour towards BKs or PBKs and has not set an example in front of his children to follow HIM.(Follow Father)....So how can Baba Dixit be revealed as ShivBaba??

1. Even Dada Lekhraj used to be called Dada (brother) for many years before he was called Baba. So, there is nothing wrong if Baba Virendra Dev Dixit was called Bhai by PBKs for a few years. When they firmly recognized that it was Shiv who was speaking through him, they started addressing him as Baba.

2. Pandavas were manhandled in Mahabharata by the Kauravas. Ram was given all kinds of pains by Ravana community. Nothing new.

3. ShivBaba is called a ramta jogi (wandering mendicant). Moreover, the mental stage is seen. Even if someone is travelling physically, if his mental stage is constant or calm and is remembering Father Shiv, then it will be called a spiritual journey, not a physical journey.

4. It is famous in the scriptures that God will be revealed as Kalankidhar (one against whom false charges are levelled).

5. Baba has said that you have to protect your body to make efforts. So, there is no wrong if he tried to resolve the problem by talking to someone. Moreover, Brahma Baba had the advantage of divine visions caused to himself and others through him by ShivBaba as it was a period of foundation and Bhakti. But through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, such spoon-feeding is not done. Once he was arrested, he was calm and spent the period of arrest amidst hard core criminals. Many PBKs who met him during and after the arrest (at jail) have different versions of his reactions.

6. It has been mentioned in the Sakar Murlis that a Father can slap or beat his children to reform them. Just because you see Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and that sister as unrelated individuals you feel as if he has committed a crime. But if you see them as a Father and child you will not feel the wrong. Moreover, if Baba has the power to slap, he also has the power to remove sorrow from that sister's mind. You reported only one aspect, but you might not be aware of what happened later.

7. As far as I know no property is bought in the name of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit alone. Properties are bought by individual PBKs and they give it to Baba 'Virendra Dev Dixit and other PBK sisters for being used for Godly service for any specified period depending on their faith and circumstances. I have seen some such agreements signed between individual PBKs and AIVV myself.

8. Already mentioned above that he is kalankidhar. It is easy for anyone to slap false charges, but it takes many years to remove the stains. This doesn't mean that those involved are not being able to make effforts for the soul. Making efforts in adverse conditions is much more fruitful.

9. Even in Sakar Murlis Baba has used many disrespectful words against other religions and Hindus. Baba criticises them only to reform them.

10. You see him according to your own stage and thoughts. Others may see him in a different way. Moreover, the stage of perfection is achieved in the end.

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

6. It has been mentioned in the Sakar Murlis that a Father can slap or beat his children to reform them.

There it is said for small children- whose age is physically less, not for grown ups.

OK let us agree that according to interpretations of PBKs, all the PBKs are small to Mr. dixit. Then he should have slapped many other PBKs in different occasions, is it not? Had there been many such incidents?

Just because you see Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit and that Sister as unrelated individuals you feel as if he has committed a crime. But if you see them as a Father and child you will not feel the wrong. Moreover, if Baba has the power to slap, he also has the power to remove sorrow from that Sister's mind. You reported only one aspect, but you might not be aware of what happened later.

So- PBKs may think and apply the same before criticizing brahma Baba, by calling him child intellect, etc.

Also- if Mr. dixit has such power, then why should some PBKs kept locked in rooms? why cannot he free them from evil spirit/souls? [When he is ready to tolerate such a high situation, why not here?]

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

10. Last but not the least, till date, Veerendra Dev Dixit has not exhibited any qualities/powers of Supreme Soul Shiva with his behaviour towards BKs or PBKs and has not set an example in front of his children to follow HIM.(Follow Father)....So how can Baba Dixit be revealed as ShivBaba??

shivsena.

Virendra Dev Dixit is no god or god-man or god-messenger or anything to do with any god! So he cannot be expected to show any such super qualities.
The question is : Is there any other man/women etc who has exhibited such qualities in BKs or any other cults known to you? Do not mention reeling out muralis or closing the eyes and giving out the word of god. This any one with a LITTLE PRACTICE CAN DO WITH EASE.

shivsena wrote:To all truth-seeking PBKs.

If you have no such examples then why try to prove an old man with many diseases and with most of the teeth missing is not god. Every one other than PBKs knows it! Is anyone believing that he will not die or that he is god-man?
You assume that basically these are god sent fellows (Lekhraj or Virendra Dev Dixit) and keep discussing minor(like some one was slapped etc) details about them. Is it truth seeking? It is like believing that the SUN is green in colour and try to discuss if it is light green or dark green or spotted green etc!
Truth seeker should seek absolute truth and not the truth like if the world will end in 2012 or 2020 or when Virendra Dev Dixit dies etc? It should not depend on time or place or taking undertakings from old women on revenue stamp paper. Truth cannot be seen if people who are made like an absolute and confirmed lunatic, are shut up in some rooms and made to repeat what is told to them.
Please improve your method or you will ask the same questions and Arjun with keep telling the same answers as if Virendra Dev Dixit can be defended by his answers.
Also note that outside BKs no one believes bk or pbk ideas or methods or gnan!
satya

Honestly ... do you want to know what the real difference between Lekhraj Kirpalani and Virendra Dev Dixit is?

Lekhraj Kirpalani was rich, so the BKs are proud and can boast about him. Virendra Dev Dixit is poor and so the BKs are embarrassed by him. Even if God or Shiva was speaking through Virendra Dev Dixit, they would still deny it just because of this. They are so full of their own pride, millionaire tales and stories of royalty.

mbbhat wrote:11. God never takes book and read and explain. but, Mr. Dixit takes Murli, reads and then explains.

... Surely it is because he is explaining those specific Murlis at that time? I suppose your argument might be, if he is god Shiva he should remember what he said completely and perfectly?

However, this is faulted because numerous times BapDada in Gulzar is seen having to be prompted by one of the Seniors on the stage at Abu. If the same logic applies, he should not need to be prompted. What can we say? Either the god spirit of the BKs is not God and perfect ... or the "perfect" God is forgetful.

12. God will always call the children as bachche, bachche (child, child). But Mr. dixit does not call so. Do at least children/PBKs call Dixit as Baba?.

I don't know ... but is not the theory that there are two engines in the automobile just as there was during Lekhraj Kirpalani's time? Therefore, cannot Virendra Dev Dixit speak and respond just as Lekhraj Kirpalani did?

When Lekhraj Kirpalani took a dump, who was that taking a dump? Was it Lekhraj Kirpalani or Shiva? I suppose you would agree it was Lekhraj Kirpalani ... therefore, surely Virendra Dev Dixit is allowed to act on his own some of the time too?

13. God will be able to identify any typing mistake in the Murlis. But, Mr. dixit could not rectify this.

Wasn't he responsible for them in the first place when they were spoken in the BKWSU? Why could he inspire the BKs to fix them?

Where was it ever said in the Murlis that God acts as a spellchecker? The god spirit of the BKs cannot even get predictions of the End of the World or the population of the World right. If the god spirit of the BKs does not know how many children he has, how can he be called a Father?

Ditto, look as Lekhraj Kirpalani's writing ... it's so bad some sister had to translate it into readable language. Why did not "God" fix that? Are you saying he fixes typos but not illegible handwriting ... it sounds strange to me.

I don't know ... it seems to be your logic is weak here, mbbhat ... and based on Bhakti not Gyan.

mbbhat wrote:There it is said for small children- whose age is physically less, not for grown ups.

OK let us agree that according to interpretations of PBKs, all the PBKs are small to Mr. dixit. Then he should have slapped many other PBKs in different occasions, is it not? Had there been many such incidents?

No. It must have been a rare occasion when he might have slapped someone (even if the story is true). I have never seen him doing so or even heard from anyone that Baba has beaten a sister. Had it been so, the number of sisters surrendering their lives for Godly service in AIVV would not have been growing constantly despite comparatively fewer facilities.

So- PBKs may think and apply the same before criticizing Brahma Baba, by calling him child intellect, etc.

mbbhat Bhai is free to have his own views. We consider Brahma to be our senior mother (bari Maa)

Also- if Mr. dixit has such power, then why should some PBKs kept locked in rooms? why cannot he free them from evil spirit/souls? [When he is ready to tolerate such a high situation, why not here?]

Baba says in the Murlis that if you are under the influence of an evil spirit you can go to Aulias (Muslim priests who perform the task of freeing someone from evil spirits) if you don't have faith in rajyog.

11. God never takes book and read and explain. but, Mr. Dixit takes Murli, reads and then explains.

Scriptures are shown in the hands of Brahma. Anyway, this topic discussed several times. Better put a full stop to it.

12. God will always call the children as bachche, bachche (child, child). But Mr. dixit does not call so. Do at least children/PBKs call Dixit as Baba?
13. God will be able to identify any typing mistake in the Murlis. But, Mr. dixit could not rectify this.

fluffy bunny wrote:Wasn't he responsible for them in the first place when they were spoken in the BKWSU?

Good logic.
Moreover, if God is with BKWSU since 1969 He would have stopped the largescale cutting and editing of His own words being carried out by His devilish children who want to establish Ravan Rajya on their manmat (own directions) instead of Shrimat (Godly directions). Mbbhat has no answer for that but keeps on crying about some comma or fullstop allegedly (not actually) overlooked by someone.

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Where was it ever said in the Murlis that God acts as a spellchecker? The god spirit of the BKs cannot even get predictions of the End of the World or the population of the World right. If the god spirit of the BKs does not know how many children he has, how can he be called a Father?

Ditto, look as Lekhraj Kirpalani's writing ... it's so bad some Sister had to translate it into readable language. Why did not "God" fix that? Are you saying he fixes typos but not illegible handwriting ... it sounds strange to me.

Was not he responsible....

This is already explained. I do not believe that god will see truth in figures and literal facts like PBKs or some ex BKs.

God goes as per drama. And there is story of fox in lowkik world as yaadgaar (which is also quoted in Murli)- which proves there should be failed predictions of destruction.

Of course, PBKs also believe and say- God goes as per drama. So- they give subtle meanings to many things. But, when their god reads previous Murlis, and blindly is following them without noticing the mistakes, - then it becomes fully clear that- there is no god there.

Or if PBKs believe - even there- their god is going as per drama- (even though he had known mistakes in Murlis before- he did not rectify them), then it is OK.

But, then they lose all the rights to claim on figures and facts or anything.

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Yes, that implies- ShivBaba explained the meaning of scriptures through Brahma.

But, here (as per PBKs' views) it is hands of Dixit? [And PBKs cannot prove either Shiva or soul of BBaba enters in Mr. Dixit].

If PBKs say- even Dixit is Brahma, then do they agree that it is dixit who is reading them? No.

They believe dixit neither reads nor explains the Murli. They believe he is always in remembrance of Shiv. Hence their belief is against their claims.
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On one hand, PBKs say- Murli is words of God, worthful, has lot of truth as if it is 100% true, etc. But, then they also say- it is just scripture. [So- their claims look contradictory]*.

So- if Sakar Murlis are words of god, and not scriptures, then there is no question of explaining them once again.

Or if Sakar Murlis are not words of God, then they should say- God was not in body of Dada Lekhraj at all. they should say- whole of the Murli are words of Dada Lekhraj.

* - Baba says- Scriptures have truth just namak/salt in atta/power. so- do PBKs believe Sakar Murlis have truth just to this extent? also- Baba says- scriptures are man made, not words of god. but, PBKs really believe Murli is words of god through BBaba (of course, some may be that of BBbaba also).

But, god of PBKs gives clarification of just one scripture (Murli). they should then explain what is Gita, Ramayan, bhaagavat, etc in BKWSU and then sit and give clarification for all those as they give to Sakar Murlis. Is it not?

Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

No. It must have been a rare occasion when he might have slapped someone (even if the story is true). I have never seen him doing so or even heard from anyone that Baba has beaten a Sister. Had it been so, the number of Sisters surrendering their lives for Godly service in AIVV would not have been growing constantly despite comparatively fewer facilities.

So- does not this imply that- slapping is wrong as per your own views? and god of PBKs did fault at least once! So- can that be god?

Now- who has slapped there? Is it soul of Brahma Baba, or soul of Dixit or Shiv himself?

mbbhat wrote:If PBKs say- even Dixit is Brahma, then do they agree that it is dixit who is reading them? No.

They believe dixit neither reads nor explains the Murli. They believe he is always in remembrance of Shiv. Hence their belief is against their claims.
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On one hand, PBKs say- Murli is words of God, worthful, has lot of truth as if it is 100% true, etc. But, then they also say- it is just scripture. [So- their claims look contradictory]*.

So- if Sakar Murlis are words of god, and not scriptures, then there is no question of explaining them once again.

Or if Sakar Murlis are not words of God, then they should say- God was not in body of Dada Lekhraj at all. they should say- whole of the Murli are words of Dada Lekhraj.

* - Baba says- Scriptures have truth just namak/salt in atta/power. so- do PBKs believe Sakar Murlis have truth just to this extent? also- Baba says- scriptures are man made, not words of god. but, PBKs really believe Murli is words of god through BBaba (of course, some may be that of BBbaba also).

The above member is forcing me to repeat what has already been explained several times on this forum.
It is the soul of Brahma which reads Murlis through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit's body and it is Supreme Father Shiv who explains the meanings.
The Murlis narrated by Shiv through Brahma Baba are words of God entirely. But they were not explained completely. Hence the necessity for Shiv to explain them through another medium.

But, god of PBKs gives clarification of just one scripture (Murli). they should then explain what is Gita, Ramayan, bhaagavat, etc in BKWSU and then sit and give clarification for all those as they give to Sakar Murlis. Is it not?

God does not give clarification of just Murlis but also of the scriptures of the path of Bhakti. The thousands of Murli classes and Discussion classes available on PBKs official website (www.PBKs.info) and posted on this forum are a proof for this.

So- does not this imply that- slapping is wrong as per your own views? and god of PBKs did fault at least once! So- can that be god?

Now- who has slapped there? Is it soul of Brahma Baba, or soul of Dixit or Shiv himself?

Another childish arguement. God never slaps anyone. It is either the soul of Ram or Krishna which have karmic accounts with BKs or PBKs since last 63 births who may slap them.

arjun wrote: No. It must have been a rare occasion when he might have slapped someone (even if the story is true). I have never seen him doing so or even heard from anyone that Baba has beaten a Sister. .

The incident of slapping happened in Kampil before Virendra Dev Dixit went to jail (probably in 1996)..A party of about 40 students had gone to Kampil from Delhi and i along with Kamala devi accompanied the students in a private bus. After 2 days, everyone was woken up at Amrit Vela when they heard a loud slap and a sister shouting "Mar dalo mar dalo". All sisters and students present in Kampil were completely shocked and an uneasy calm pravailed in Kampil till the morning class. Some students left the next morning saying that this is not an act of merciful God ShivBaba and those who completed their bhatti never came back again to rohini ashram for morning class. This is not a hear-say story and if arjun Bhai wishes he can confirm with the senior sisters and kamla devi.

In Vani 2-2-11 it is said: "BapDada says that meeting at 4 am(Amrit Vela) is special, as at 4 am BapDada gives blessings and boons to children. Special part of Boon-bestower starts at Amrit Vela. Whatever boons one wants, BapDada gives. But you have to be alert to take the boons."...In Kampil, instead of boons, the self-proclaimed BapDada slaps his child and gives him sorrow instead of boons.....and arjun Bhai has a ready defence for all the inappropriate actions of his GOD-Virendra Dev Dixit....arjun Bhai will repeatedly condemn the senior BKs for cutting-editing the Murlis, but he will convienently ignore and rush to defence of the wrongful acts/ambigious explanations of his Guru-God(without batting an eyelid).

Its time that PBKs did some serious self-introspection about their guru, his acts and his teachings.

It's difficult to conscience a man hitting a woman, especially on the face/head, but the question one would have to ask is what arose for it to happen? Usually such incidents are only the tip of a volcano that has been seething for sometime and then finally erupts.

Could an inspired person not have foreseen such a confrontation and avoided it in advance?

shivsena wrote:and arjun Bhai has a ready defence for all the inappropriate actions of his GOD-Virendra Dev Dixit....arjun Bhai will repeatedly condemn the senior BKs for cutting-editing the Murlis, but he will convienently ignore and rush to defence of the wrongful acts/ambigious explanations of his Guru-God(without batting an eyelid).

I have never said that the incident was not wrong. It is definitely the karmic account between that individual soul and the soul of Ram or Krishna. But one cannot write-off the entire AIVV for just one incident of slapping by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. He has never declared hat he has become karmaateet or that he is God. He is still clearing his karmic accounts. So, please don't jump to conclusions.