Who won this point

I hit a stroke that was in. Opponent framed the ball. The ball managed to just get over the net - bounced once on my side. Without me touching the ball it went back over the net and double bounced on my opponents side.

That's because the ball managed to touch your side of the court first. If the ball bounces on your side, it's your ball to hit now. Because it managed to go back to the your opponent's side, the point becomes his. I hope that makes sense! :???:

you have to hit the ball into his court, it's not about where the ball lands the second time. from a technical standpoint, his shot bounced twice and therefore he won. you were allowed in that situation (and to my knowledge, only in this situation) to reach over the net and hit it.

you have to hit the ball into his court, it's not about where the ball lands the second time. from a technical standpoint, his shot bounced twice and therefore he won. you were allowed in that situation (and to my knowledge, only in this situation) to reach over the net and hit it.

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Yes. If a ball bounces on your side but bounces backwards to your opponents side due to spin or wind, you can reach over and hit the ball before it bounces twice and without touching the net. It happened to Roddick one match and apparently he didn't know that

but you weren't the one who hit the ball in. if the ball had hit the net, or close to the net instead of actually clearing the net after the bounce you'd have no qualms, i'm sure. its the fact that after his shot landed in your court, it bounced twice. the point therefore was over. doesn't have to "bounce twice in your court", just has to hit the ball in your court. after that, if it bounces twice, the point is awarded to him.

but you weren't the one who hit the ball in. if the ball had hit the net, or close to the net instead of actually clearing the net after the bounce you'd have no qualms, i'm sure. its the fact that after his shot landed in your court, it bounced twice. the point therefore was over. doesn't have to "bounce twice in your court", just has to hit the ball in your court. after that, if it bounces twice, the point is awarded to him.

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Isn't the only reason we have a racquet so we can get the ball back onto the opponents side?

Isn't the only reason we have a racquet so we can get the ball back onto the opponents side?

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right. so "you" can. you didn't hit the ball that bounced back on the opponent's side. think of it this way, when a winner is hit the ball bounces in your court, and then bounces again either on a wall or out of the court, right? does the winner not count because the second bounce bounced out of the court? of course not. the rule is simple, after the ball bounced in your court, if it bounces again, regardless of where, your opponent gets the point. you have to hit it before it bounces twice, back into his court. key point being, you have to hit it.

right. so "you" can. you didn't hit the ball that bounced back on the opponent's side. think of it this way, when a winner is hit the ball bounces in your court, and then bounces again either on a wall or out of the court, right? does the winner not count because the second bounce bounced out of the court? of course not. the rule is simple, after the ball bounced in your court, if it bounces again, regardless of where, your opponent gets the point. you have to hit it before it bounces twice, back into his court. key point being, you have to hit it.

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What if I swing at the ball and although I miss it, the wind generated from my swing pushes the ball back over? "I" still got the ball back

24.PLAYER LOSES POINT
The point is lost if:
b.The player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice
consecutively

25.A GOOD RETURN
It is a good return if:
a.The ball touches the net,net posts/singles sticks,cord or metal cable,strap or
band,provided that it passes over any of them and hits the ground within the
correct court;except as provided in Rule 2 and 24 (d);or
b.After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net,the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court,provided that the player does not break Rule 24;or
c.The ball is returned outside the net posts,either above or below the level of
the top of the net,even though it touches the net posts ,provided that it hits
the ground in the correct court;except as provided in Rules 2 and 24 (d);or
d.The ball passes under the net cord between the singles stick and the adjacent
net post without touching either net,net cord or net post and hits the ground
in the correct court,or
e.The player ’s racket passes over the net after hitting the ball on the player ’s
own side of the net and the ball hits the ground in the correct court;or
f.The player hits the ball in play,which hits another ball lying in the correct
court.

.After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net,the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court,provided that the player does not break Rule 24

The key word being played the ball. To play the ball you must hit it with your racket.

25.A GOOD RETURN
It is a good return if:
a.The ball touches the net,net posts/singles sticks,cord or metal cable,strap or
band,provided that it passes over any of them and hits the ground within the
correct court;except as provided in Rule 2 and 24 (d);orb.After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net,the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court,provided that the player does not break Rule 24;or
c.The ball is returned outside the net posts,either above or below the level of
the top of the net,even though it touches the net posts ,provided that it hits
the ground in the correct court;except as provided in Rules 2 and 24 (d);or
d.The ball passes under the net cord between the singles stick and the adjacent
net post without touching either net,net cord or net post and hits the ground
in the correct court,or
e.The player ’s racket passes over the net after hitting the ball on the player ’s
own side of the net and the ball hits the ground in the correct court;or
f.The player hits the ball in play,which hits another ball lying in the correct
court.

25.A GOOD RETURN
It is a good return if:
a.The ball touches the net,net posts/singles sticks,cord or metal cable,strap or
band,provided that it passes over any of them and hits the ground within the
correct court;except as provided in Rule 2 and 24 (d);orb.After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net,the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court,provided that the player does not break Rule 24;or
c.The ball is returned outside the net posts,either above or below the level of
the top of the net,even though it touches the net posts ,provided that it hits
the ground in the correct court;except as provided in Rules 2 and 24 (d);or
d.The ball passes under the net cord between the singles stick and the adjacent
net post without touching either net,net cord or net post and hits the ground
in the correct court,or
e.The player ’s racket passes over the net after hitting the ball on the player ’s
own side of the net and the ball hits the ground in the correct court;or
f.The player hits the ball in play,which hits another ball lying in the correct
court.

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Oh sorry I meant where did you get the rule that says to play the ball you must hit it with your racquet

Dude there's no need to be like that. I'm honestly asking where in the rules is says "To play the ball you must hit it with your racket."

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Why are you asking the question if you're going to argue when you get the answer? Everyone knows it was your opponent's point. I know it seems like a freak occurrence, but it happens quite frequently and everyone knows that's the rule.

Think about it. Why would it be your opponent's job to return his own shot?

24. PLAYER LOSES POINT
The point is lost if:
a. The player serves two consecutive faults; or
b. The player does not return the ball in play before it bounces twice
consecutively; or
c. The player returns the ball in play so that it hits the ground, or before it
bounces, an object, outside the correct court; or
d. The player returns the ball in play so that, before it bounces, it hits a
permanent fixture; or
e. The receiver returns the service before it bounces; or
f. The player deliberately carries or catches the ball in play on the racket or
deliberately touches it with the racket more than once; or
g. The player or the racket, whether in the player’s hand or not, or anything
which the player is wearing or carrying touches the net, net posts/singles
sticks, cord or metal cable, strap or band, or the opponent’s court at any time
while the ball is in play; or
h. The player hits the ball before it has passed the net; or
i. The ball in play touches the player or anything that the player is wearing or
carrying, except the racket; or
j. The ball in play touches the racket when the player is not holding it; or
k. The player deliberately and materially changes the shape of the racket when
the ball is in play; or
l. In doubles, both players touch the ball when returning it.

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There's no direct rule that says you must hit the ball with your racket (I think) but you will lose the point if you touch the ball with anything except your racket.

Why are you asking the question if you're going to argue when you get the answer? Everyone knows it was your opponent's point. I know it seems like a freak occurrence, but it happens quite frequently and everyone knows that's the rule.

Think about it. Why would it be your opponent's job to return his own shot?

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Honestly if someone shows me the rule in the ITF rulebook that says "To play the ball you must hit it with your racket." then I will say "Okay I lost the point".

It's my opponent's job to keep the ball in play. It bounced once on my side then onto his, just like the thousands of points I've ever played; it's still in play.

This is a case where I'm thinking for myself and won't just accept what people say and follow it like a sheep. If its in the official rules then I'll accept it since this is the sport I choose to play and without rules there would be no game.

Honestly if someone shows me the rule in the ITF rulebook that says "To play the ball you must hit it with your racket." then I will say "Okay I lost the point".

It's my opponent's job to keep the ball in play. It bounced once on my side then onto his, just like the thousands of points I've ever played; it's still in play.

This is a case where I'm thinking for myself and won't just accept what people say and follow it like a sheep. If its in the official rules then I'll accept it since this is the sport I choose to play and without rules there would be no game.

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25. A GOOD RETURN
It is a good return if:

After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net, the player reaches over the net and plays the ball into the correct court, provided that the player does not break Rule 24; or

After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net, the player reaches over the net and plays the ball into the correct court, provided that the player does not break Rule 24; or

25. A GOOD RETURN
It is a good return if:
b. After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net, the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court, provided that the player does not break Rule 24; or

In this rule, we ascertained that you must play the ball. I hope you can agree that play the ball requires some positive action from your part.

24. PLAYER LOSES POINT
The point is lost if:
i. The ball in play touches the player or anything that the player is wearing or
carrying, except the racket;

So you have to take positive action. You can't touch the ball with anything other than the racquet. Therefore, we can deduce that play the ball must equate to hit it with your racquet.

25. A GOOD RETURN
It is a good return if:
b. After the ball in play has hit the ground within the correct court and has spun
or been blown back over the net, the player reaches over the net and plays the
ball into the correct court, provided that the player does not break Rule 24; or

In this rule, we ascertained that you must play the ball. I hope you can agree that play the ball requires some positive action from your part.

24. PLAYER LOSES POINT
The point is lost if:
i. The ball in play touches the player or anything that the player is wearing or
carrying, except the racket;

So you have to take positive action. You can't touch the ball with anything other than the racquet. Therefore, we can deduce that play the ball must equate to hit it with your racquet.

Q.E.D.

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What if the positive action is me swinging my racquet and the wind I generate makes it go over?

This is seriously common knowledge. Why do you think there is a special rule that you can reach over and hit a ball if it's bouncing back to the other side? Because you still have to play the ball in this scenario!

This is seriously common knowledge. Why do you think there is a special rule that you can reach over and hit a ball if it's bouncing back to the other side? Because you still have to play the ball in this scenario!

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Studying mathematics I've learned to never assume. That's the only reason I'm being picky about what play means.