iul wrote:The locals can do all of those jobs. They have millions of unemployed people.

How you transform a social benefit tick in a doctor? Or sent them in hardworking environment like construction or agriculture? Why Romania doesn't use 500k gypsies in construction for example?

You get rid of life long social benefits. The doctor shortage in the UK is primarily because of the population increase and because doctors are against increasing the number of spots available in medicine. Gypsies are lazy and prefer to live on state aid, theft, robberies and prostitution, plus the vast majority of Romanians wouldn't work with gypsies.

I'd prefer if our country took immigrants from Canada, Australia or New Zealand than Pakistan, Algeria, or Morocco.

Yeah that's not at all simplistic. Are there even enough people from the first three countries willing to emigrate to the UK to fill the jobs you need? And how many Pakistanis are looking to enter the UK these days? Probably a lot more Romanians, Poles etc I'd wager.

Anyway, these are UK and more broadly Western European social problems. Iul seems to fear this same "bogeyman" in Romania but I don't see any evidence it exists there.

Firstly, we are having those same issues, albeit on a smaller scale. Last week a pakistani tried to rape a 12 yo girl and a lebanese stabbed to death a woman and an old guy.Secondly, you don't need to have a problem to know you don't want to have it.

iul wrote:Firstly, we are having those same issues, albeit on a smaller scale. Last week a pakistani tried to rape a 12 yo girl and a lebanese stabbed to death a woman and an old guy.Secondly, you don't need to have a problem to know you don't want to have it.

Do you have any idea how big is the rape issue in a certain area like Vaslui? And the lebanese guy was actually son of a diplomat stationed here and not an immigrant?

So, our argument is that it's OK to have more rapes and murders because we already have rapes and murders? The Lebanese guy was in his 20's, not a child, there's no reason why he should have been allowed in.

iul wrote:So, our argument is that it's OK to have more rapes and murders because we already have rapes and murders? The Lebanese guy was in his 20's, not a child, there's no reason why he should have been allowed in.

You just can't use one case as a reasoning to ban any immigration when you have much bigger problems in certain areas. As for the lebanese guy, he was also student here. Heck there are tons of lebanese here, Christian and Muslim as well since 80s.

RugbyLiebe wrote:You know what, get your genes checked. It is under $100. For my family it was just a nice anecdote as we already knew that we have a very diverse background or better a very common background for everybody who had ancestors living in Austria/Hungary. You will find out, there is not such a thing like "native population" in any country in Europe. And quite surely not in Romania and even more so in Germany were for centuries people from south, west, east and north moved through since the Roman times and probably even centuries before that.

You live in a phantasy world of black and white, us and them. But if you think Muslims have the magical power of conquering everything just by having more babies, maybe you should become one. I mean what should stop them? If they are so magical as you believe they are, it doesn't matter where they are, they will have so many babies until they can climb over our borders.

This is crazy talk Liebe, liberal brain-washing. Your country can look forward to more and more terrorism and probably another far-right Government voted in to combat it. All because they wouldn't take the threat seriously to begin with.

I have no issue with Muslims, but the reality is as their community grows so do the problems and the threat to Western nations is monumental.

So what exactly is "crazy talk" about it? Why should your culture be so unflattering that everyone stays within a radical muslim agenda? I mean I am German and I still enjoy a British breakfast every now and then and apparently I like a British created sport the most. So there is no reason for you to fear that your culture might not survive. Why do you have so low self-esteem?

But off course it will change over the years. We Germans have a tendency to not run around screaming "Heil Hitler" and send our military on surprise visits to France. We like our spaghetti, lasagna and Döner Kebap more than our traditonal pork roast. Romanias don't enjoy to impale people as much as they did before. And Britain is just a large rainy island in the North/west corner of Europe and not the centre of the world anymore, which apparently lead to less people wearing less bowler hats. But I heard their new national dish is a delicious curry. So not everything is going down the drain (and we all now that the tradtional British kitchen is the worst the world has ever seen).

How to grow rugby worldwide?Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Bolaroid wrote: Listen to Victor Orban, probably the only EU leader who speaks sense on the matter. Poland is also resisting the madness.

Are you serious? You give me an example of 2 of the most corrupt&populist regimes in Europe?Now in ROmania we have the same shit growing. Fuck the UE, Soros, Big Pharma , Bau bau etc....Who is the one brainwashed over here? History is cyclic but we never learn.

I'm referencing their views on immigration and the protection of Europe. You're bringing other policies into it to conflate matters.

The well-paid liberal politicians are flooding us with violent third worlders from North Africa & Middle East, many of whom hate our society want to kill us. We did not vote for this, we do not want this, and we are not going to allow it. One by one, these politicians will receive their marching orders until sensible policies are adopted. Don't take it from me, just look at the elections around Europe.

OK, i will take it other way. Do you think you will be stronger alone? Who benefits from a divided Europe?Maybe all others than Europe and UK? Nationalistic card is used every time and then. And always works. Just saying...

I've worked with lots of Syrians, Muslims and Christians. Great guys, very hardworking. I grew up around a number of Palestinians, Muslim and Christian. Mostly entrepreneurial and some of the few people who will run needed businesses in areas that have otherwise been abandoned. You guys are unhinged, it's sad to see you label whole groups based on what some far-right newspapers and blogs tell you.

RugbyLiebe wrote:So what exactly is "crazy talk" about it? Why should your culture be so unflattering that everyone stays within a radical muslim agenda? I mean I am German and I still enjoy a British breakfast every now and then and apparently I like a British created sport the most. So there is no reason for you to fear that your culture might not survive. Why do you have so low self-esteem?

But off course it will change over the years. We Germans have a tendency to not run around screaming "Heil Hitler" and send our military on surprise visits to France. We like our spaghetti, lasagna and Döner Kebap more than our traditonal pork roast. Romanias don't enjoy to impale people as much as they did before. And Britain is just a large rainy island in the North/west corner of Europe and not the centre of the world anymore, which apparently lead to less people wearing less bowler hats. But I heard their new national dish is a delicious curry. So not everything is going down the drain (and we all now that the tradtional British kitchen is the worst the world has ever seen).

Yes, very good Liebe.

Let's be clear, many of these people do not integrate properly. They prefer their own culture, and do not see our European cultures (whether German, French or British etc etc) as theirs. They're disenchanted, feel out of place and turn to violence in the name of their religion. Just look at the numbers from Europe running to a warzone in search of a Islamic caliphate. In inviting more of them (danke Angela) what we're actually doing is creating the situation of two parallel and competing cultures, one of which adheres to values more suitable to the Middle Ages. Already we see dangerous conflict and the numbers aren't yet even close to being equal, it's only going to get worse.

It doesn't and can't work, and rather than deluding ourselves that we can live in some kind of multicultural utopia together, we have to address it.

Last edited by Bolaroid on Tue, 06 Mar 2018, 22:37, edited 4 times in total.

4N wrote:I've worked with lots of Syrians, Muslims and Christians. Great guys, very hardworking. I grew up around a number of Palestinians, Muslim and Christian. Mostly entrepreneurial and some of the few people who will run needed businesses in areas that have otherwise been abandoned.

You guys are unhinged, it's sad to see you label whole groups based on what some far-right newspapers and blogs tell you.

It's not about labelling 4N, it's about acknowledging that as a social group they bring with them serious problems which threaten our nation's civilians and social fabric that it probably isn't a great idea to be adding to them. I wish that it wasn't that way, but it is. The unhinged are those who bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is okay (along with those who are actually committing a myriad of atrocities in the name of their death cult). If they were all like the people you worked with, we wouldn't be having this conversation but unfortunately they're not, so we are.

Last edited by Bolaroid on Tue, 06 Mar 2018, 22:39, edited 3 times in total.

Bogdan_DC wrote:OK, i will take it other way. Do you think you will be stronger alone? Who benefits from a divided Europe?Maybe all others than Europe and UK? Nationalistic card is used every time and then. And always works. Just saying...

If you're referring to Brexit, then the answer is yes. British people decide matters for British people not inefficient and even dangerous decisions made by Junckers and Merkels for their own political ends. The rest of Europe can stay together, I hope they do and wish them well, but Britain must be in control of its own affairs.

Bolaroid wrote:Let's be clear, many of these people do not integrate properly. They prefer their own culture, and do not see our European cultures (whether German, French or British etc etc) as theirs. They're disenchanted, feel out of place and turn to violence in the name of their religion. Just look at the numbers from Europe running to a warzone in search of a Islamic caliphate. In inviting more of them (danke Angela) what we're actually doing is creating the situation of two parallel and competing cultures, one of which adheres to values more suitable to the Middle Ages. Already we see dangerous conflict and the numbers aren't yet even close to being equal, it's only going to get worse.

It doesn't and can't work, and rather than deluding ourselves that we can live in some kind of multicultural utopia together, we have to address it.

For one second I thought you were talking about the thousands of British retired people living in Spanish coasts

And having somebody really close to me working every day with this people, I can assure it's not pleasant. Families at least integrate through jobs and kids.

Armchair Fan wrote:For one second I thought you were talking about the thousands of British retired people living in Spanish coasts

And having somebody really close to me working every day with this people, I can assure it's not pleasant. Families at least integrate through jobs and kids.

I can imagine, old people are difficult enough at the best of times never mind when they're ranting on in a foreign language. But on the upside, at least they're not barrelling an HGV through Las Ramblas.

I'm for an open society and an open policy because I think it's the best strategy on long terms, but I can't negate that the muslim immigration is potentially a danger for Europe. Now the waters seem to be again calm but in the first part of the Islamic State series of deadly actions in Europe the feeling was that a great part of the muslim Europe's inhabitants was quite tolerant with those attacks: "we are against violence, but...". I admit to have not any real friend islamic, so I don't know much of their mentality; but my feeling is that a not little part of them divide human population in "muslims" (=good) and "not muslims" (=hmmm...).

Bolaroid wrote:Let's be clear, many of these people do not integrate properly.They prefer their own culture, and do not see our European cultures (whether German, French or British etc etc) as theirs.

Living as stated before in a city with a lot of people from every country, British are among the least integrated group way before every single Muslim. The majority doesn't speak a word of German. They have no idea about our culture. You can't imagine the ridiculous claims I've heard from British-expats living in Germany for many years. They also mostly hang around with other English-native-speaking expats.

Bolaroid wrote:They're disenchanted, feel out of place and turn to violence in the name of their religion. Just look at the numbers from Europe running to a warzone in search of a Islamic caliphate.

You got numbers with a source? With about 5 million Muslims in Germany and don't see a majority (so about 2,5 Mio) doing that for fun on the average weekend.

Bolaroid wrote:In inviting more of them (danke Angela) what we're actually doing is creating the situation of two parallel and competing cultures, one of which adheres to values more suitable to the Middle Ages. Already we see dangerous conflict and the numbers aren't yet even close to being equal, it's only going to get worse.

Bullshit. The average refugee wants to only live a good life and gives a f*** about religion.I am a child of a former refugee kid after WW2. My mum and her parents were called "gypsies" for as long until the Italians came to Germany (all beside being part of a German minority in the Czech Republic before, and being declared "Arians" in 3rd Reich etc.). People have always be afraid of a "take-over". And it never even once happened in modern history.

Not sure if you want to defend a christian culture or not. But Merkel is the child of a priest, who was that dedicated that he took his family including his Hamburg born daugther and brought her up in Eastern Germany. She knows her bible. And she doesn't forget her party is named Christian Democratic Union.

Bolaroid wrote:It doesn't and can't work, and rather than deluding ourselves that we can live in some kind of multicultural utopia together, we have to address it.

Well I live in this world. I speak more than one language. I've got friends from all continents (rugby added a lot to that). Friends with who I have more in common and agree more than with a lot of guys from "my culture". Every week I eat food that comes from at least three different continents.

I agree that I would have problems with radical Muslims. But I also don't want radical Christians as my friends.

All of this doesn't say that the handling of the refugee crisis was a catastrophy. We need a clear green card system with very strict laws and enforcements if somebody thinks he can stand outside of the law. But I don't see why I should blame one religious group which has lived in Germany peacefully for many years and whose religion was just recently used by extremist idiots, they don't even share the same ancestors nor interpretation of the Islam with, to bring violence around.

How to grow rugby worldwide?Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

I understand everyones concerns about this topic but I just have to say, this is not the first time this has happened.

Thousands of people immigrated to Africa over 100 years ago and millions have resulted in those settlers, despite the fact that the local population was very small, the settlers coming had superior technologies and could suppress them and that the immigrants took control of the economies, it did not stop the original people from being overwhelmed.

Immigration is something we have had throughout history, from the earliest recorded. What needs to happen is to deal with xenophobia which leads to conflict.

As long as the immigrants understand that if they move to a different country they need to respect their new homes beliefs, laws and culture.