Immigration issues

Topeka  Two days of debate in the Kansas Legislature showed the wide range of opinion and emotion on the issue of illegal immigration both in the Capitol and across the state as e-mails flooded the inboxes of legislators.

Many of the e-mails accused lawmakers of supporting bills that were too weak, some calling legislators traitors and idiots and referring to some as "Amigo Senator."

Most legislators took the e-mails in stride; some said it bothered them, but all expected to be questioned about their stance on illegal immigration when they face the voters later this year.

Some legislators say illegal immigration is the most important issue confronting American society.

"Citizens of the state are demanding we do something because they are frightened," said Sen. Peggy Palmer, R-Augusta.

On the opposite end are legislators who say the issue of illegal immigration has been drummed up to stir up the public and detract from more important problems.

They say the nation has been reinvented by immigration, that immigration laws are out of sync with the need for workers, and the majority of illegal immigrants are hard-working, tax-paying, family-oriented people.

Rep. Tom Sawyer, D-Wichita, said some members of his family came to the United States illegally to escape poverty and better themselves. He said the U.S. should "create a legal path for those who want to come and live the American dream."

But most lawmakers seemed to be somewhere in-between those views.

They say they want to respond to concern about illegal immigration but point out that the federal government is in charge of the laws that determine who gets to come to the United States.

In addition, they say they want to punish employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, but they don't want to set traps for businesses that may make mistakes.

And they want to make sure illegal immigrants aren't taking advantage of the state welfare system, but they don't want to deny anyone needed services, nor pass laws that hassle people who are citizens.

So far, major business organizations have been able to douse most proposed penalties that they didn't like. And attempts have failed to repeal a law that allows the children of some undocumented immigrants to pay the lower in-state tuition at higher education institutions, if they establish residency and work toward citizenship.

Both the House and Senate have adopted bills, and now the issue will go to a conference committee for negotiations.

Both bills have provisions that would punish businesses that repeatedly knowingly hire illegal immigrants with fines and possible contempt of court sanctions that could include prison time. But majorities in both chambers rejected provisions to shut down businesses that repeatedly knowingly hire illegal immigrants.

The bills also increase penalties for using false IDs to get employment.

Opponents of these bills say the proposals are much weaker than earlier versions, providing phony immigration reform to give legislators political cover. But supporters of the bills approved by the House and Senate say they are reasonable and balanced approaches to a complex problem.

The Senate immigration bill is Senate sub for SB458. The House immigration bill is Senate sub for HB 329.

"they say they want to punish employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, but they don't want to set traps for businesses that may make mistakes."

Then they are lying because that's not what either bill does. The Kansas Chamber of Commerce said NO to punishments and the cowardly legislators in both chambers stripped out the punishments. The Kansas Chamber of Commerce said NO to e-verify and the cowardly legislators in both chambers stripped out e-verify.

Then in the most shameful act of all, the cowardly Senators - including our own Senator Roger Pine - in their attempt to find some way to say that they are cracking down on illegals, decided to punish unions if employers hire illegals.

That's right folks, if an employer commits an illegal act (hiring an illegal alien), the employer gets no punishment. But if the union should collect dues from that illegal alien employee, the union gets fined between $2000 and $10,000.

Unions don't hire the workers, they have no standing to verify legal status or citizenship, but they are expected to police the actions of employers.

In case you're wondering, while the Chamber was calling for no punishments for businesses, the unions were calling for tougher punishments to keep American jobs for American citizens.

Give me the email addresses. I may be "useless" but I can still email my anger!
( I once moved to Denver, applied for 5 jobs in two days and got all five. They were so used to people with no work ethic, they thought I was sent from God!)
I once heard someone say they wouldn't hire anyone from east of highway 81. I understood that about 28 years ago. It's only gotten worse. Now the small town foreign populace cities are on the tour for new KU professors. Teaching them of the troubled students of KS.

oneflewover says so called "Hispanics" work hard for pennies and we need to "understand" the needs of employers.

Gee, sounds a bit like what 18th and 19th century plantation owners in the deep south said, when badgered into giving up slavery - "they work hard and it'll ruin the economy if you make us stop it!". How pathetc oneflewover's comments are. How un-American, un-patriotic he is in his sarcastic contempt for Americans and our work ethic. In case you don't realize it oneflewover, "Hispanics" (really Mexicans) often work hard because they are desperately poor and there is hardly no opportunities to work at all in their corrupt country of Mexico. They also "work hard" because most of them are ILLEGAL ALIENS, who are lying, cheating and stealing from the American public, so they "work hard" in order to pacify their corrupt, criminal employers into keeping quiet and not turning them in for deportation. Duh.

As someone said above, the US lets in more LEGAL immigrants and even the fake "guest workers" each year than all over countries in the world combined, each and every year. But it's not enough for corrupt Mexico. They want to send 30-40 million more here in the next 20 years. We will truly become "North Latin America" if that happens.

The Collective IDIOTS that are Respreentatives and Senators that voted in support of the waterd down and ineffective bill need to be replaced. They chowed they are in the pockets of the Kansas Chamber of Commerce.

I think it is high time to have an investigation of the Kansas Chamber of Commerce, and their corruption and bribing of political irepresentative idiots.

A recent poll stated that 80% of Kansans want strict enforcement of immigration law and support STATE legislation to enforce.

Why did the elected traitors not follow their constituents wishes.

BTW, if there are not many illegal aliens here anyway in the pro illegal alien supporter perspective, they the enofrcement would not cost that much.

Illegal immigration hurts the economy, the tax base, the services, and education. There is not any reason to support illegal aliens or their employers.

Time for some elected representation to "dangle at the end of a rope" for traitorous acts,

According to H. Ross Perot, just a few short years ago, we all were supposed to hear the "giant sucking sound" of the jobs going south of the border. What happened? Apparently there are no jobs south of the border because they all want to come here. No jobs here? They won't come here. This is the fault of Mexico for not taking care of their people. It ain't going to be fixed because the politicos don't have the gonads to do anything about it. Get used to it. Someday when we wake up and see that our country has really gone to hell in a handbasket, it will be too late. I feel sorry for our grandkids who are going to have to pay for this whole mess.

"I feel sorry for our grandkids who are going to have to pay for this whole mess."

Our grandkids are likely to have it better than we are. The simple fact, unnoticed due to the glare of the relative American success, is that Mexico IS getting better. The problem is, rebuilding a nation actually (gasp!!) takes Time. If Mexico continues to grow at the rate it has been, by the time of our children's or grandchildren's time it will be at a level that there would be no perceived need to immigrate for better opportunities.

"Rep. Tom Sawyer, D-Wichita, said some members of his family came to the United States illegally to escape poverty and better themselves. He said the U.S. should "create a legal path for those who want to come and live the American dream.""
Hey Tom, I have news for you. THERE IS!
That's why what we're concerned about is called "illegal" emigration.

We have to quit electing the same ole same ole that we have been electing. Big Business wants to keep it that way. They are the only ones making it right now, I work for less than 10 bucks an hour, its hard for me to make it, and i can't afford to have illegals keep coming here and making my wages less. I don't want anybody to starve or not get healthcare when they need it, but damn,,i don't even qualify for healthwave or a medical card because i make too much money, at less than 10 bucks an hour, give me a break, i think i deserve it as least as much as an illegal, i didn't break any laws to come here,,i was born here. i pay my taxes, and try to live a decent life, but i can barely afford my healthcare coverage, which as doubled in the 2 yrs i have been on my present job, and will probably go up again this contract period, I don't use the emergency room as my PCP,Bring jobs, good jobs, not minimum wage crap, back to the US, were already paying out the a##, we might as well keep those jobs here.
As for employers who consistently hire illegal, fine them, and keep fining them, and don't let em squeeze out of it by filing bankruptcy,,,,
We vote and elect our congresses, state and federal to make laws,,,damn people make some laws, and enforce them, we are almost 3 world in the US now,,,and it will only get worse if we as a nation don't take control.

The following is being passed around the net. It is from someone that received an email for "derogatory emails" to elected representatives. Funny how the Capitol Police are getting involved with the immigration mess:

"Trooper Fegan,

I bet you wished you would have not hit the "send"
button. I have no beef with you, but how do you think
this email would be perceived by the news media? I
have a first amendment right, and additionally, if a
legislator is doing something stupid and scandalous, I
have EVERY RIGHT as long as it is not threatening, and
my email was NOT threatening. Besides why is the
capitol police respopnding to "derogatory emails", I
am sure you have other more pressing business to
attend to likeall the illegal aliens working on Kansas
Governments Construction sites. I am including my
email below your email, and I am sending it to several
media outlets and other immigration law enforcement
groups. You and the legislator or legislators that
decided to take this stupid action are going to suffer
the consequences in the realm of public opinion. Hope
ya have your asbestos underpants on, be cause it is
"flame on".

I am also asking for the legislators that I am sending
this to to start an investigation for political
"strong arm" corrupt tactics in silencing or
attempting to silence a citizens first amendment
right. Who the hell do you think you are???
Legislators using the capitol police to respond to
"derogatory emails or statments". Sounds a bunch of
self centered self important people. THIS IS
OUTRAGEOUS, and YOUR email response shows just how
ignorant some of these idiots are!

I buried a younger brother because he was killed by an
illegal alien, and I have NO respect for politicians
that are to damn ignorant to recognize the real impact
of illegal immigration. Stupid is as stupid does and
collectively the majority of the Kansas Legislature
are stupid crooked sellouts. Calling politicians that
has been a pastime of the ages, it is just this time
it is correct, applicable, and in context.

I am assuming that your email was prompted by a
complaint. If that is a legitimate complaint I awant
to know the name of the legislator that made it, other
wise you have NO case or cause for a citizen to
express their right to free speech. Otherwise, this
sullies the reputation of the KHP which is way above
this political bulls***. This is exactly what happens
when people jump into a corrupt mud pile, it gets on
everyone.

Here is a piece of advice for your Trooper Fegan,
remove yourself from this and tell the legislators
that if they do not want "derogatory emails", they
should not pass stupid laws and take actins contraty
to the majority of Kansans and AMERICANS!
Furthermore, "derogatory emsails" are the problem of
the legislator, threats are another matter altogether.
IS the KHP endorsing illegal immigration by taking
this political position in suppression of First
Amendment rights at the behest of a stupid and
embarrassed legislators???

This is pathetic, and shows the isolation and delusion
that the elected putzes are suffering from.

You have a complaint or a crime, then by all means
bring it forth and the NAME OF THE LEGISLATOR that
made the complaint.

Otherwise is is just corrupt strongarming, and
sequestration of freedom of speech.

No one has a problem with you expressing your
opinion on the current issue but, sending derogatory
e-mails to the legislators is a little excessive.
Please re-frame from using them. Your cooperation
would be appreciated

The Senate had a "VOICE VOTE" at 12:45 AM to decide
this issue. Clearly, they did not want it on the
record. All I can ask is "ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR
FREAKIN' MINDS???"

Those that voted in this issue in favor of supporting
illegal aliens and those illegal businesses that hire
and employ these illegal aliens are going to get VERY
uncomfortable, politically speaking and should step
down now.

You are despicable, and dishonest. You are obviously
NOT looking out for AMERICANS and KANSANS!!! By
voting in favor of non citizens over CITIZEN KANSANS
that voted you in office, you show ther is NO NEED to
show you respect, you simply are too stupid to make
respected judgements, and that process simply escapes
your thoughts.

I watched my parents completely break down because
their youngest son was killed by a DRUNK, UNLICENSED,
ILLEGAL ALIEN, with NO insurance, registration, and NO
BUSINESS BEING IN THE COUNTRY. My Brother, Sgt. Jerry
D. Brown proudly served his country in Desert Storm,
killed by an illegal alien drunk driver!!! Victimless
crime my ass!

IF you think, that this is a great idea, just wait
until the "word" gets out that Kansas is going this
way to be a "Sanctuary State", you will be flooded
with illegal aliens. You need to read the reports and
see the construction sites at other border states.
They are being flooded with cars and trucks with
Oklahoma, Arizona, Colorado, and S.C. tags.

Wake up! IF you think that supporting illegal alien
rights at the expense of your constituents, and the
reduction of the quality of education of CITIZEN
CHILDREN, and the reduction and closing of hospitals
because of unpaid medical bills from mobile illegal
alienss is the way to go you are singly unqualified to
be in elected office.

Facts are this:

Illegal aliens are more likely to leave unpaid medical
bills.
Nationally Illegal aliens have the highest foreclosure
rate in the country.
Illegal aliens and those cities that harbor them are
mecca's for crime.
Communities with massive increase in non english
speaking illegal aliens has decreasing test scores.
Communities with large illegal alien populations have
a high rate of hospital closings.
Communities with high illegal alien populations have
the largest student to teacher ratios in the country.

Cities and STATES with STUPID ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES
that support illegal aliens have problems with
balancing a budget, and have the lowest favoribility
ratings.

80% of Kansas Citizens want this bill and want STRONG
enforcement, WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS BUCKING THAT TREND?

This is not about normal immigration, this is about the chronically corrupt govt. of Mexico sending 20, 30, 40 million of their peasants into our country with the permission of Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, McCain, etc.

This will never end unless the American people get very angry at our politicians and our so called "news media" who hide facts, use "pc" language ("undocumented workers") and otherwise propagandize us into submission; into letting another country literally colonize our nation and create a "North American Union".

"Normal" immigration is both legal and in reasonable numbers - what we have today is corrupt. Illegal aliens usually are using fake or stolen ID's, commiting social security fraud, driving without licenses, insurance, etc. and to top it all off, the American people are being forced fed Spanish 24/7/365 to better accomodate our "invaders".

Learn to stand up to this bullying by Wash DC whores (politicians) and their partners in whore-dom in Mexico City.

I'm from the State of Delaware, and probably have no say here, but with all dissention between the House and Senate, why not just agree on the Oklahoma or Arizona law. The law is court tested and appears to be a sound law to free your State of the ILLEGAL ALIENS.

I'm happy to see you are at least stepping up to the plate. Let's not strike out! Get a law passed and make sure it is a good one. It's time to take our Country back and get these ILLEGAL ALIENS back to their home country.

Currently, Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia, Mississippi, etc. have all passed VERY tough laws against illegals----which is FORCING thousands of illegals to leave. They have taken away their ability to get jobs, welfare, WIC, foodstamps, etc. The police are arresting and deporting through ICE's 287g program.

However, the illegals are moving to other cities/states that are more friendly to them---also known as sanctuary cities. If your city/state is not one of those taking steps to solve the problem---you are going to have THOUSANDS of illegals heading your way!!

Someone said something about the unions being used to prevent illegals. Sorry, that is not going to work!! When the Swift Meat Packing plants were raided, the illegals there were in the unions!!!

The only thing that works is if ALL cities/states pass the same laws as Arizona, Oklahoma, etc.!!!!

"Some people say that illegal alien immigration is not a real crime because it is "victimless" and that the illegal aliens are "only doing the work that Americans won't." In actual fact however, illegal immigration distorts the law of supply and demand in a capitalistic society. In fact, regarding wages, it is hypocritical to want to raise the minimum wage on one hand while the other hand wink at illegal immigrants working at far below prevailing wages. The victim, then, is the American worker and taxpayer.

But don't take our word for it: read the following to see just how bad this situation is, and how illegal alien populations have changed the working prospects of America's middle class: "

During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

At least 25 Americans are killed EVERY DAY by illegal aliens. Just ask Rep. Steve King of Iowa. 12 by murder and 13 by drunk driving or driving accidents. I'd say that THAT is the most important reason to deport illegals, ALL of them! What a price we're paying!

I know people who employ illegel aliens, all hispanic. They are willing to work every day as long as it takes and as hot or cold as it might be. They are kind and respectful and thankful for fair (truely fair by anyone's standard) pay. It is next to impossible to find a legal citizen to stick with a labor intensive job past their first friday paycheck. Argue all you want, but until you have been in the employer of laborer's shoes, your arguement holds no water in my book. Too many LAZY AMERICANS floating from job to job. They are the REAL STRAIN on our systems.

DO NOT believe the BS by the media, illegal support groups, our politicians, etc.----that the only reason the illegals come into our country ILLEGALLY, is because there is no way for them to enter through the legal process.

The US lets in OVER 2 million people LEGALLY per year. And, guess where the majority are coming from??? This is more than any other country in the world!!

The US already has OVER 7 guest worker programs. And, farmers are entitled to bring in as many workers as they want---through the legal channels, which requires them to pay a certain minimum wage and provide health benefits. The farmers and other employers do not want to pay this minimum wage and health care benefits---they would rather hire them for slave wages, and pass the expenses of them being here onto US citizens/tax payers.

The illegals just don't feel that they should have to follow our laws and wait in line---just like the millions of other people throughout the world, who are waiting in line and trying to enter our country through the proper, legal, process.

It is not as hard/expensive to enter the country as a LEGAL, temporary, worker--- as it is to try to get citizenship.

"WASHINGTON While the military "quagmire" in Iraq was said to tip the scales of power in the U.S. midterm elections, most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens men, women and children were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.
Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001."

This bill was originated by a group of labor unions, I know the people who started this bill out. The purpose of it was to punish employers who employ illegal aliens and hopefully put a stop to some of this BS. After it made it thru the house and senate committees and they "reworked" the language, the bill now reads no punishment to the employers and a fat-ass fine to a labor union who allows an illegal immigrant to join its organization. My boss was so mad last week when he read that in the paper I thought he was going to stroke out because, believe it or not, labor unions (at least mine) are very strict about proper paperwork for these guys. If a dude comes into my office and wants work he had better provide me with a valid SS card, d. license or other state issued ID, birth certificate, DD-214 and a green card if applicable. I have a gal I go to at the SS Admin that checks numbers for me to see if they're bogus or not. I know my labor organization does everything it can to weed out the illegals (not saying they all do) and this is what they do with this bill? Make it seem like it's our fault that the employers are hiring them and paying them scab wages, screwing the hard working American, whether he be union or not?! WTF? In KS the unions only have 11% of the market share, and we know that, which is why we don't chase and harass every non union contractor. Only those that misclassify their employees as subs to avoid paying taxes and those that knowingly hire illegal workers. This just p*sses me off all over the place. People, it's time for a revolution.

Neither political parties can be trusted when it comes to the illegal immigration occupation of our country. More states are trying to enact strict laws for enforcement against predator employers. However, THE SAVE ACT has the teeth and packs the punch, to halt this pestilence overwhelming our wilting economy. Very few Senators and Representatives have THE PEOPLE' S best interest in mind. The Democratic hierarchy have specifically been pandering to special interest groups, and very few have offered to co-author THE FEDERAL SAVE ACT.Keep calling your Democrat Representative today, toll free numbers include 1-877-851-6437 and 1-866-220-0044, or call toll 1-202-224-3121 AND REGISTER YOUR OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to keep our country from enforcing its immigration laws!Learn the suppressed news about the border fence at:AmericanPatrolLiberty Post