US soldier murders Afghan civilians

Beastro of Nektulos wrote:
Others on another board have mentioned, this event is most likely more controversial in the West than it is in Afghanistan. Only a small minority in Afghanistan being outraged by it, many others welcoming these people being murdered due to tribalistic rivalries with them getting what they deserved for whatever slight they'd caused in the past and most just not giving a damn one way or the other.

pretty much. They certainly don't seem to get as upset in Afghanistan (or Pakistan or Iraq or Syria or Libya or Egypt, etc. etc.) when Muslim-Extremists butcher Muslims or deface the Koran.

Maybe the problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

To say these extremists only see one side of the argument understates the situation in Afghanistan. The illiteracy rate means that they only have what other people tell them and that is what they believe. The US soldier massacring civilians is gossip worthy and there is an absolute certainty that in the retelling it becomes more gossip worthy as it passes from person to person.

According to the Times several minus points are surfacing. He joined the Army after being ordered to repay a large sum for fraud and unauthorised stock broking. Plus charges of assault against a woman, suspicions of drink driving and involvement in a hit and run.

Throd wrote:According to the Times several minus points are surfacing. He joined the Army after being ordered to repay a large sum for fraud and unauthorised stock broking. Plus charges of assault against a woman, suspicions of drink driving and involvement in a hit and run.

Also double-parking, removing the tag from a mattress, and striking match without closing cover: evils which practically guarantee a killer. Good old Times.

Throd wrote:
According to the Times several minus points are surfacing. He joined the Army after being ordered to repay a large sum for fraud and unauthorised stock broking. Plus charges of assault against a woman, suspicions of drink driving and involvement in a hit and run.

I don't see any reason to disbelieve that information, and I guess it's all relative to one's own background but I don't see those troubles as trivial. OTOH they are hardly clear warning signs that somebody is going to eventually go on a mass murder spree. There's a huge number of guys with somewhat checkered pasts for each one who eventually goes on a murdering spree.

Basically I don't see the reason why some people think they have to have an exact theory why this guy did this and especially whose 'fault' it is other than his. On the latter I very heavily lean toward saying people's actions are their own responsibility. So many problems are caused IMO by leaning the other way. Maybe if it's shown this guy's act was a direct physical result of his head injury that would be an exception...but on the face of things that doesn't seem so likely if he could function apparently normally long after. Anyway we'll see. There's plenty of time for accounts based on actually admissable court evidence to come to light. But even then the likelihood is we won't really know why he did this. That's one more reason human wisdom over generations has emphasized holding people responsible for their own actions, despite temptations, stress, 'the unfairness of life', etc.

JBren1 wrote:
Basically I don't see the reason why some people think they have to have an exact theory why this guy did this and especially whose 'fault' it is other than his. On the latter I very heavily lean toward saying people's actions are their own responsibility.

In one way I agree with you. He apparently did it and that's enough to convict. But there is some value in knowing what led him to this, if for no other reason than to figure out warning signs of future incidents.

Throd wrote:Bales has hired a lawyer named Browne who is quite famous, he represented Ted Bundy and "the barefoot bandit".

My wish was that this United States Soldier, a wounded combat Vet with multiple war tours, who has put his life on the line to uphold anddefend MY Constitution and the people I love will be tried in accordance with the UCMJ and that he be represented by the best council possible.

That, you miserable waste of oxygen, is how our system of military JUSTICE is suppose to work.

Actually you wanted him to have a "Civilian" lawyer too as in this case you did not trust military justice - which is actually what he's got. I've no reason to know how justice works for the military so why should I be bothered either way?

Apparently Browne saved a crimminal who murdered 11 out of 13 people in a gang massacre from the death penalty by blaming his conduct on an old head injury, even though IIRC the gang leader was sentenced to death but reprived. Ng could be free in 2014. Things to come perhaps.

Here is another bit of education for you. In high profile cases, with the marxist military hating regime we have in power NOW that man needs every bit of justice he can get.A civilian Co-Council does not have to think about his career. There are plenty of cases of politically originated pressure put on the senior brass, most but not all, are nothing but politicians in uniform to get the verdict they want. Those brass are more than capable of making the court "understand" where their duty lies which is to protect the careers of the Senior brass and themselves. Look at Tale Hook. Look at Mailai. Look at murther's attempt to castrate our own troops for killing a jihadist. Look at that three Ring circus for that islamic Dr. who opened up on his own peopled on a US military base.

Our own Jarhead Sgt has explained in terms even YOU, a low grade moron IMNSHO, should understand of what dynamics are at work in the US military to PLEASE the REGIME.

Is this a waste of time with you? I think it is but others just might benefit from me trying to teach you something.

You wrote that you wanted a Civilian lawyer for him because you don't trust the Senior officers in the US army to give him a fair trial. I wrote that he had got a Civilian lawyer as you wished. What foul there? You obviously don't think that the officers are horourable men who will do the right thing. Why insult me for simply relaying the information - I'd have thought you'd be happry.

The poor soldier finally lost it after seeing his chums being killed one after the other, not only by his enemies but even a "key ally". And the frustration of knowing that everyone knows it but doesnot want to do anything about it must have lacerated his heart. He finally broke under this pressure. My sympathies to him.

But a pity he was not in Karachi or Islamabad or Lahore when he turned his M-16 loose.

The poor soldier finally lost it after seeing his chums being killed one after the other, not only by his enemies but even a "key ally". And the frustration of knowing that everyone knows it but doesnot want to do anything about it must have lacerated his heart. He finally broke under this pressure. My sympathies to him.I strongly suspect YOU have it right pppet old man. Seen too many men crack big time before. Fortunately, none of those I called friend ever went anywhere near as far as this guy. You know what usually happens? They start to cry and can't stop!

But a pity he was not in Karachi or Islamabad or Lahore when he turned his M-16 loose.

If you've read her biography you'll know that counter insurgency in Afghanistan is one of her specialities. Would a loud mouth like you be asked to speak in some of the institutions (including US Army) such as she has. Or on TV broadcasts. Are her facts wrong? Are you capaable of knowing either way?