Proof Albert Pike Affliated with KKK?

There is strong evidence suggesting that the Knights Templars were involved in devil worshiping.

It's all there, I don't think I'm wrong in making these connections. They all fit so nicely together don't they?

OK now your just be silly. The charges against the Knights Templar where trumped up by King Phillip IV of France out fear of the power and wealth
that
he percieved them to have. Judging from the content of the site provided you may need to work on your Google skills, it's another questionable group
who
would probably love to be connect to the Knights Templar and have few morals.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Oh really? Can you prove that the KKK that we all know and despise was not the same one Albert Pike was in?

Shouldn't be too hard. The original, post-Civil War Klan was organized to protect the war-ridden South from the northern "carpet-baggers" who were
taking everything that wasn't bolted down. They got out of hand and Nathan Bedford Forest disbanded them in 1869.

The Klan that was murderous and fond of "lynching" and burning crosses, that hated black people, Catholics and anyone who wasn't White Anglo-Saxon
Protestant didn't start until the 1915. THAT'S the Klan you're talking about. Can I prove Pike wasn't a member of it?

Yep. Pike died in 1891.

As for that Klan banner w/ his name on it....there's a Masonic Lodge in my home-town called "St. Mark's Lodge #93"

Originally posted by AngelWitch
Same site, same lack of credibility. I'm sure many Masons would like to say that Martin Luther King Jr. was a Mason, unfortunately saying it
doesn't make it so.

Lack of credibility? What makes you say that?

I can't speak for seb but for my part, I don't believe that's what he's saying.
Given the era in question MANY were KKK members, this includes many misguided INDIVIDUALS such as preachers,
Christians, school teachers, auto mechanics, Sunday school teachers, poets, authors, musicians, bankers, politicians(no surprise), lawyers(also no
surprise), etc....

It's an unfortunate time in history. If you're convinced that Albert Pike was a member of the KKK and are willing to cast the same shadow
over Masonry as a result, then it's only logical that you take a look at ALL of the other groups from which members may have been connected to the
KKK.

I'm sticking to Masonry for now.

Well I'll have to say that your requirements for evidence are far weaker than mine.

There is strong evidence suggesting that the Knights Templars were involved in devil worshiping.

It's all there, I don't think I'm wrong in making these connections. They all fit so nicely together don't they?

Yep they fit.. just like hand and glo...err.... shoe

lets look what we have here. Pike was a member of the KKK because..

Crowley was a mason
The Knights Templar were devil worshipers.

err ok

But ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: Ladies and gentlemen this [pointing to a picture of
Chewbacca] is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does
not make sense! Why would a Wookiee—an eight foot tall Wookiee—want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make
sense!

But more important, you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with
this case! It does not make sense!

Look at me, I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am
not making any sense. None of this makes sense!

And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation... does it make sense? No!
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense.

Originally posted by senrak
The Klan that was murderous and fond of "lynching" and burning crosses, that hated black people, Catholics and anyone who wasn't White Anglo-Saxon
Protestant didn't start until the 1915. THAT'S the Klan you're talking about. Can I prove Pike wasn't a member of it?

"It was in 1905 that the Neale Publishing Company, New York and Washington, published Ku Klux Klan: Its Origin, Growth and Disbandment, written
and edited by Walter L. Fleming, incorporating earlier published material by J.C. Lester and D.L. Wilson. Historian Walter Fleming's introduction to
this 1905 book explains that he has been given "information in regard to Ku Klux Klan, by many former members of the order, and by their friends and
relatives." Dr. Fleming states that "General Albert Pike, who stood high in the Masonic order, was the chief judicial officer of the Klan." On a
page of illustrations of important founders of the KKK, Dr. Fleming places General Pike's portrait in the center, makes it larger than the six others
on the page, and repeats this information as a caption: "General Albert Pike, chief judicial officer". Dr. Fleming attaches as an appendix to his
book, a KKK "prescript" or secret constitution which had then recently been discovered. This document sets forth the regulations of the Klan's
"judiciary"' department, over which Albert Pike ruled. This is the internal disciplinary or counterintelligence department. It also corresponds to
Pike and the Klan's influence over the regular court system and the legal profession in the post-civil War southern states."

Sebatwerk, I guess you're going to come right out and say this is another forgery.

Originally posted by eudaimonia
Lack of credibility? What makes you say that?

Well lets see one appears to be a pro-KKK sit and the other is a pro-Satanist site.
Thus lack of credibility due to a complete lack of morals, twisted values and by being pro
or anti anything. if you're gonna post site such as those as proofs, then you'll really need to
also post some widely recognized historical sites who are far more objective.

But ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: Ladies and gentlemen this [pointing to a picture of
Chewbacca] is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does
not make sense! Why would a Wookiee—an eight foot tall Wookiee—want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make
sense!

But more important, you have to ask yourself, what does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this
case! It does not make sense!

Look at me, I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not
making any sense. None of this makes sense!

And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation... does it make sense? No!
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense.

Originally posted by senrak
The Klan that was murderous and fond of "lynching" and burning crosses, that hated black people, Catholics and anyone who wasn't White Anglo-Saxon
Protestant didn't start until the 1915. THAT'S the Klan you're talking about. Can I prove Pike wasn't a member of it?

It sure is the Klan I'm talking about.

Yep. The one that formed 24 years after Pike died...and you think he was a member. Posthumous membership doesn't count.

And here's yet again undeniable:

Here's a small section from that website:

" Dr. Fleming states that "General Albert Pike, who stood high in the Masonic order, was the chief judicial officer of the Klan." On a page of
illustrations of important founders of the KKK, Dr. Fleming places General Pike's portrait in the center, makes it larger than the six others on the
page, and repeats this information as a caption: "General Albert Pike, chief judicial officer".

Sebatwerk, I guess you're going to come right out and say this is another forgery.

Good God man! Don't you get the point?!? You still have not provided EVIDENCE! There is NO evidence whatsoever on the website! Only supposed facts
on a biased site that are COMPLETELY unsupported!

And did I ever say the picture you provided was a forgery? Or did I simply say that "evidence" for Pike's condemnation has been forged many times.
I also only pointed out that I have never heard of ANY historian taking those artifacts into considertation. Why do you think that is? If it was real,
it would be a pretty damn irrefutable piece of evidence, would it not? Why has it never been brought forth in serious historical studies?

Let's stick with the topic, not my feelings on Freemasonry.

It's obvious that this topic has everything to do with your feelings on Freemasonry, so as far as I'm concerned it IS part of the topic. If you
don't want it discussed, don't state that Freemasonry is a joke.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Good God man! Don't you get the point?!? You still have not provided EVIDENCE! There is NO evidence whatsoever on the website! Only supposed facts
on a biased site that are COMPLETELY unsupported!

And did I ever say the picture you provided was a forgery? Or did I simply say that "evidence" for Pike's condemnation has been forged many times.
I also only pointed out that I have never heard of ANY historian taking those artifacts into considertation. Why do you think that is? If it was real,
it would be a pretty damn irrefutable piece of evidence, would it not? Why has it never been brought forth in serious historical studies?

It's obvious you were being very defensive and implied that the picture WAS a forgery. You didn't have to say, I already knew what you were
thinking.

It's obvious that this topic has everything to do with your feelings on Freemasonry, so as far as I'm concerned it IS part of the topic. If you
don't want it discussed, don't state that Freemasonry is a joke.

Well, yeah, that's my feeling on it but it's not the real discussion here, if I wanted to talk about Freemasonry alone I would've done an entirely
different thread. Which I could do, but I'd rather not because 99% of the things that I will post will be either denied or blamed on some other
outside source. It's almost impossible to convince you of anything, frankly.

And even if the picture CAN be proven to be real and not a forgery by a credible expert on photography you would probably still not believe it,
which says a lot about your devotion to Freemasonry where truth is not part of your system.

Anyway, here are two very disturbing quotes from Albert Pike:

Albert Pike on KKK:

"As owner-publisher of the Memphis, Tennessee, Daily Appeal, Albert Pike wrote in an editorial on April 16, 1868: "With negroes for witnesses and
jurors, the administration of justice becomes a blasphemous mockery. A Loyal League of negroes can cause any white man to be arrested, and can prove
any charges it chooses to have made against him. ...The disenfranchised people of the South ... can find no protection for property, liberty or life,
except in secret association.... We would unite every white man in the South, who is opposed to negro suffrage, into one great Order of Southern
Brotherhood, with an organization complete, active, vigorous, in which a few should execute the concentrated will of all, and whose very existence
should be concealed from all but its members."

"I took my obligation to White men, not to Negroes. When I have to accept Negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it."

Originally posted by eudaimonia
It's obvious you were being very defensive and implied that the picture WAS a forgery. You didn't have to say, I already knew what you were
thinking.

I implied no such thing. If it can be proven real, I would believe it. The only thing I have explicitly stated in this entire argument is that, as far
as I have ever known, there is NO proof whatsoever to link Pike to the KKK.

And even if the picture CAN be proven to be real and not a forgery by a credible expert on photography you would probably still not believe it,
which says a lot about your devotion to Freemasonry

Albert Pike and his history has NOTHING to do with Freemasonry, as far as I'm concerned. Don't confuse the two. Albert Pike was a person, and he in
NO WAY represents Freemasonry any more than I or anyone else represents Freemasonry. I am simply defending Pike from your pathetic attacks.

Anyway, here are two very disturbing quotes from Albert Pike:

Sigh.... everyone knows Pike was racist! What's wrong with you? Do you insist on ignoring what anyone says just to make a point, or do you
want to have a discussion?

Can you provide evidence of that first quote, or are you just believing what you read on your websites? Saying that someone said something isn't very
convincing, not to us thinking men, anyways.

Regarding the second quote: Pike was a racist, then repented and helped to establish one of the first black lodges in the USA. Doesn't that mean
anything to you? Or are you so dead-set on Pike being evil that you won't see anything else, like what you accuse me of?

Just a side note on the Templar trials:
There were two inquisitions, one in France and one in England.
The French used torture etc...but the English didn't (well at least no one reported any)
Both these inquisitions took place separatally but yielded the same results.
Basically the reason the Templars had been able to hold there positions in the "Holy Land" when all others had failed was because they had adopted
local religious beliefs and moved away from Christianity allowing them to recruit vassels from the local population.

From a Christian point of veiw this is "Satanic."
From a Masonic point of view this is "Leadership."

Pike may be controversial for
some of what he did in his life,
and one day his statue might
be pulled down (I wouldn't be surprised).

This said, the 1984 declaration
of Freemasons officially
claim it to be anti-racist.

Nothing "taught" in freemasonry
would make sense with racism.

It barely even make sense
that women have to start their own lodges
to learn how to draw a nice pentagram,
so much the material can be studied by anyone.

As far as the Templars.
no one quite know what they were about.

Sometimes you wonder if the kingdom
of god is not to them the kingdom
of Solomon.

Cedric Phi

(PS: don't misinterprete me as pro-mason, I got 3 big points again masonry, but if anyone use masonry for evil purposes, at the base
the masonry teachings are quite inoffensive. They're even suppose to treat everyone gently, selon their declaration. But somewhat the brittish
royal guards do a better job at resisting laugh)

ADDITION:

What does Pike being racist have to do with masonry ???????

It's all about image, Seb.

If you were black, you don't want a racist representing the community.

Lynch Pike (the statue I mean).

That's the best masons could do.

He creates a shadow on a lot of other men who became masons
in history.

Basically, you don't have to refute the book,
but his image is problematic. His life is not
an idealization of what a mason life should be.

His book was already amassing many other books,
so it could be rewritten too. Or...just put
a note in beginning claiming the controversy,
but affirming that the book itself is not touched
by this.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Both these inquisitions took place separatally but yielded the same results.

So you're saying that captured Templars confessed to the same accusations, with AND without torture? Come on Necros, give us a break...

If they yielded the same results, that probably means that the final allegations were the same, regardless of what the captured Templars confessed or
denied. Doesn't sound like a very fair trial, does it?

Hypothetically....If Pike was affiliated with the KKK, does that make Masonry or even more The SJ Scottish Rite afiliated? Nope. Why? Because
an organization of many is not contingent on ONE. In other words just because he didn't practice what he preached....it doesn't condemn the whole
lot. Hrmm this sounds familiar......

Lets look at three well known preachers....James Bakker, Jimmy Swaggert and Oral Roberts.....

James Bakker is known not only as a christian televangelist, but as a cheater who imbezzled millions from his "church".

Jimmy Swaggert is known not only as a christian televangelist, but as a cheater (remember the tearful "I sinned against you" speech) who
frequented prostitutes.

Oral Roberts...He just saw a 900 foot Jesus over Tulsa, Oklahoma

Now using you're mentality relating Pike/KKK/Freemasonry would make every Christian a hallucinating, cheating, imbezzler who likes to pay for sex.

Now I know this is a stretch, but my point is....Just as these folks do not represent Christianity, neither does Pike represent Masonry.

And just because these "church leaders" had "faults" does that mean that the messages that they taught prior to the public finding out their short
falls was wrong?

Again I'm playing along hypothetically......mainly just to show the error in your logic.

And as far as the picture.....if I showed you a picture of Bill Clinton shaking hands with Hitler.....would you believe that too?

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