David Icke

Knowing that David Icke exposed conspiracies about reptiles and such, I never wanted to give more attention to him. But after reading an interview with certain metal band in DLA (Spear Of Longinus) where he is mentioned (in a positive way)... well, I didn't try to read his ideas. But that interview stayed in my mind, and I decided to search for him on the internet months later (today). Reading about his ideas, he seems to write a lot about the nature of conciousness too, not only conspiracies, wich made me want to check out his books. I never read a book by him, but I intend to buy one in the near future, but I'm interested in knowing if any of the extremely intelligent, cultured people here at ANUS forums have ever come across a book by him, and what did they think.

I admit to having a strong tendency to want to read "fantastic" stuff... the more surreal and idiotic an author's philosophy seems, the more I want to know it. Sometmies I think there is some kind of "code" in "spiritual" writers, that is to be interpreted in kind of a symbolic way (I am 100% certain that is the case with many of them, as all know, religious texts are like this). Or it seems that the more a person "advances" in spiritual philosophy, the more crazy and paranoid it becomes, for example, I never read a book by M. Serrano, but in a interview he stated that he believes the joos manipulate people trought waves (or something like that) kind of telepathically. A text by Serrano is featured on the Free Speech Project, that means he is in some way appreciated by the likes of ANUS, that in turns connects him a little with David Icke, since this kind of apparently ridiculous statements of mind control, from what I've read of him, seems to be like something he would believe, so there you go, I just made a small connection between ANUS and Icke to further make my topic interesting. I know, it is a little pathetic coonection and they probably don't have a lot to do with each other, and also MS has little to do with ANUS, but you can't deny my train of tought.

In the history of imperfect beings called humans, there were a number of great minds spreading great ideas and committing great deeds, while at the same time standing on one or more irrational beliefs (which helped them achieve these deeds). As long as you don't assimilate other people's irrational beliefs as your own, there's no problem.

I've known of David Icke for a little over a decade now and have read several of his books. There was another post on here wherein the author slammed Icke's connection to a number of metalcore bands. Quite frankly, anyone who isn't on the fringe name-dropping Icke is surprising to me because the guy is widely viewed as an anti-semite; the content of his books certainly provide enough evidence to support that supposition. Icke's "ideas" can be split into three categories. First, the global elite's agenda to control humanity. Most of the information that falls under this category is more than likely true, and I think it's only an incredibly naive mind that can doubt the presence of an elite who dictates popular tastes, opinions, needs, and causes. Icke posits that the group usually referred to as the Illuminati comprises a handful of ultra powerful families whose primary interests are the consolidation of power and the removal of any threats to their power. He believes governments manufacture crises and threats for the purpose of control and perpetuating fear. Where you have to be careful with Icke is that he does have a tendency - as all conspiracy writers do - to streamline data so that everything he presents dovetails perfectly with his thesis. Another big problem with Icke is that as an Englishman, he has the unpleasant habit of tracing most of the global elite to other English people. Having viewed the English royals and MPs for many years, I'm not buying that the world's elite could ever be English. That being said, I think the vast amount of what he writes in this category is accurate.

The second principle aspect of his writing is the theory that the global elite are actually a reptilian race of shapeshifters who originated from another universe and interbred with humans thousands of years ago. If you've seen the movie They Live, the premise is very similar to Icke's theory. In fact, Icke's theory isn't really his theory at all but he has brought the notion to quasi-prominence. Again, Icke's anglo-centrism is especially evident in this area as the Aryan race is viewed as one of the biggest mechanisms of the reptilians; a close analysis would show that the elevation of the Aryan race to an interdimensional sovereignty isn't all that different to what white supremacists do. Whether posited practically or allegorically, I think the reptilian aspect of his theory is more or less pointless, and serves largely to weaken the credible aspect of his texts.

Third, and again, not an original idea by any means, is the belief that humanity is one consciousness, comparable to theories of cosmic consciousness, Gaia, Jung's collective unconscious, and absolute idealism. We are all one body united in love, and the trifles of humanity merely obscure this fact. As someone who has watched/listened to both Bill Hicks and David Icke extensively, I can tell you with certainty that Icke has lifted (often verbatim) much of his material in this area from Hicks.

His most recent book posits that the reptilian master race actually controls people from our Moon.

Try to read this with a straight face:

Quote

His most staggering revelation is that the Earth and the collective human mind is manipulated from the Moon, which, he says, is not a ‘heavenly body’, but an artificial construct – a gigantic ‘spacecraft’ (probably a hollowed-out 'planetoid') – which is home to the extraterrestrial group that has been manipulating humanity for aeons.

He describes what he calls the ‘Moon Matrix’, a fake reality broadcast from the Moon which is decoded by the human body/mind in much the same way as portrayed in the Matrix movie trilogy. The Moon Matrix has ‘hacked’ into the human ‘body-computer’ system, he says, and it is feeding us a manipulated sense of self and the world 24/7.

At this point he's deviated wholly into Scientology/George Lucas territory and I doubt many of his ardent supporters will be able to handle it. In keeping with his premise that the global elite are utilizing infinite levels of deception to conceal their sins, however, he can state just about anything no matter how absurd it may seem, and claim that since all of the people in charge are pathological liars anyway, why shouldn't we believe that the Moon is a giant spacecraft?

Hoodwink: I'm mainly intersted in reading the books about conciousness, can you recommend one that you found informative? What do you think are the reasons that makes him state such absurd things as shape shifting reptilians (if the ideas about the ruling elite are coherent, why add reptilians?) and the moon being a spacecraft?

1- Gaining money from the naive that believes those ideas while also having lots of fun

7- He doesn't believe in shape shifting reptilians but feels he has to add this stuff to call attention ¹

8- He actually believed it during mental illness/hallucinogen periods, then saw it was garbage but continued to try and make money since his reputation was ruined

9- The whole thing is meaningless, he knows it and he's a lost soul that doesn't know why he does it but is compelled to keep on saying those things anyway while also mixing it with philosophical ideas about the world and consciousness (he gave up a carreer in TV to start spreading this philosophy)

10- It's the actual truth.

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¹ This view is exposed here:

They argue that the lizards may be allegorical, a Swiftian satire intended to demonstrate the emergence of a global fascist state. In Children of the Matrix, Icke writes that, that if the reptilians did not exist, we would have to invent them. "In fact," he says, "we probably have. They are other levels of ourselves putting ourselves in our face." He argues, "We are the reptilians and the 'demons' and, at the same time, we are those they manipulate because we are all the same 'I'."

Hoodwink: I'm mainly intersted in reading the books about conciousness, can you recommend one that you found informative? What do you think are the reasons that makes him state such absurd things as shape shifting reptilians (if the ideas about the ruling elite are coherent, why add reptilians?) and the moon being a spacecraft?

First, the books. Fundamentally, the books are all the same. He adds a juicy nugget of dementia every few books to prevent people from accusing him of selling the same book over and over, but in terms of his basic outlook, there's very little deviation. There are photos and graphics in his newest book that were in the very first one I read in 2000. In the case of the more recent books, there is a heavier emphasis on the subject matter you're interested in. I'd recommend Infinite Love Is the Only Truth: Everything Else Is Illusion, if only because it focuses very little attention on the conspiracy stuff and is almost exclusively to do with consciousness.

Now, as for why he writes/says what he does...it's partly to sell books, certainly. The guy has made a lot of money because he's known as the sensationalist in a medium dominated by hyperbole. Since he's assured of an extremely wide audience - at least as far as his niche is concerned - I suspect he'll keep on adding more unusual elements to his future books. I'm sure you'd agree that it's pretty hard to top the hypothesis that the planet is controlled by an interdimensional race of lizards who can assume human form, and yet people are still buying the books.

The other answer to your question is a simple one: he's more or less batshit crazy. I don't think mental illness precludes one from illuminating the truth, far from it. But there's a willingness to not only engage but wallow in ignominy that speaks to a truly staggering psychosis. If you watch him closely enough while he speaks, you can see that he's locked in a turbulent internal war waged by a pathological liar and a raging lunatic, and neither is willing to give an inch. In spite of all of this, there's enough truth in what he's written to justify the strength of his voice - many of his speculations that were met with rancour and howls of laughter have turned out to be true. So, yeah, I don't think he's quite in padded cell territory, and he's certainly charming and sophisticated enough to make a compelling public figure. But would it surprise me if the man ended up institutionalized down the road? Not at all.

I've encountered reptilians or aliens or whatever name you want to call them, both in the physical and the astral, along with a lot of other things people would call "supernatural", so I understand where Icke is coming from. However a pivotal point of knowledge I've realized on my left-hand-path journey is just as you wouldn't take the word of a stranger who stops you in the street and tells you great tales, similarly does logic dictate a need for reasonable grounds upon which to believe anything you perceive in the astral or any extra-sensory things you perceive in the physical. A big part of it has to do with psychology, especially the whole silence and stillness business of enlightenment that you may observe your mind and truly understand where you're coming from, because then you can always tell where you end and other stimuli begins--this way, when you determine some seemingly extraordinary thing you perceive is not a product of mental illness (because you see your mind and being clearly and know the stimuli does not arise from within you), then you can conclude your perception is real (as opposed to a product of your imagination), but you still don't know if it's a light show put on to try and deceive you or if it's accurately representative of the true reality of things. I mean you can go pay for a magic show and a guy makes a Ferrari disappear with smoke and mirrors, right? At this point then you must apply ruthless logic and skepticism to yourself and your surroundings and see if the strands of experience you've perceived are slices of a bigger picture that's real or strands of a big web somebody is spinning for you. I've concluded that in may case and the cases of many others it's mostly a big web, which means things like malevolent astral entities definitely do exist, however how we perceive them usually is only how they want us to perceive them, precise so that, among other things, when we speak about it we come off sounding delusional. They weave a magistral web to get you to think things that aren't real, like to experience desire that you don't really want, to forget to be logical when you consider some fact, etc. The most important thing is to understand where you yourself is coming from, to become a true master, self-mastered and enlightened--then you are free and you have so many more possibilities.

things like malevolent astral entities definitely do exist, however how we perceive them usually is only how they want us to perceive them, precise so that, among other things, when we speak about it we come off sounding delusional. They weave a magistral web to get you to think things that aren't real, like to experience desire that you don't really want

I've heard similar talk from an intelligent, but drug-muddled guy, influenced by Castaneda. From his facial features I'd conclude that HE is a reptilian. How do you know your imagination isn't playing with you, conforming some negative traits of your astral experience to the pre-formed convictions of these beings you're talking about?

things like malevolent astral entities definitely do exist, however how we perceive them usually is only how they want us to perceive them, precise so that, among other things, when we speak about it we come off sounding delusional. They weave a magistral web to get you to think things that aren't real, like to experience desire that you don't really want

I've heard similar talk from an intelligent, but drug-muddled guy, influenced by Castaneda. From his facial features I'd conclude that HE is a reptilian. How do you know your imagination isn't playing with you, conforming some negative traits of your astral experience to the pre-formed convictions of these beings you're talking about?

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, but I'll give it a shot. There is no doer and thing-being-done, you are not separate of your thoughts, emotions, and actions, you ARE them. And the only reason you can't see yourself sometimes is because you're in conflict and confusion with yourself. For example if you're striving towards two mutually contradictory goals. So if your present thought, emotion or action is in conflict with some other aspect of your paradigm not currently being manifested in the present moment, you can't see both of those things together. In this way, until enlightenment is realized one bounces around from one 'mode' of being to another, in each case the mode of being is isolated from the other facets of your person along lines of negative, repressive emotions, fragmenting your consciousness out of coherence and cohesion. Let me put it this way, if enlightenment is realizing with single-pointed focus to never ever look at anything with single-pointed focus, then ignorance is being pulled in conflicting directions by a mess of tunnel realities contained in your overall reality paradigm--and to the extent you have this ignorance then there's a back door to your consciousness where negative influences can affect you, from malevolent astral entities to bad TV commercials.

if enlightenment is realizing with single-pointed focus to never ever look at anything with single-pointed focus, then ignorance is being pulled in conflicting directions by a mess of tunnel realities contained in your overall reality paradigm--and to the extent you have this ignorance then there's a back door to your consciousness where negative influences can affect you, from malevolent astral entities to bad TV commercials.

I agree. There is one thing though- if you believe these entities exist, they exist alright. Do you BELIEVE or you KNOW they exist? Also, how would you know?

Well, you answered more than actually asked, but I still didn't get my answer.

There's often a distinction made between reality and the psyche, and the truth is that the distinction is predicated on ignorance from a time when people didn't really understand the mind very well. Images that resonate with massive numbers of humans whether they be physically real or not are psychologically real in the sense that they exist in a non-physical realm. Similarly, the mind's projections are real. Let's suppose that a considerable number of people claim to have seen reptilians and they aren't just lying for the sake of being part of a mass. There are undoubtedly reasons that their minds created reptilian figures that appeared physically real to them - perhaps the result of a psychic malady, or perhaps the rest of us have imposed blocks that prevent us from seeing those figures. Either way there's a reason that's psychologically real. You'll find more often than not that human beings who are in denial about spiritual matters actively prevent themselves from "seeing" things that don't conform with their purely chthonic worldview.

And none of this is intended as a defense of reptilians or to say that someone who is actively seeing reptilians isn't dealing with a neurotic disorder, rather that the question you asked doesn't really have a simple answer.

That is possibly true, although now I see the point a lot more clearly.

I see the happenings in the world as a result of unseen forces which are not material in essence, but govern the arrangement of the physical reality. Even if there would exist a theory which accurately described the conspiracy of world domination, I couldn't perceive that conspiracy as anything but a manifestation of the undercurrent. It's just that every time someone introduces reptilians, Annunakis or (exclusively) Jews as an incarnation (and not a puppet) of these forces, another fragment of my will to investigate dies away in disappointment...