“I think this is almost the perfect scenario to find out once and for all if Cutler is our QB.”

-4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

The Bears turned in their worst performance of the 2013 campaign, a three-phase meltdown in the City Where Santa was Booed. Soon after the players made it to the locker room and Tribune beat Rich Campbell made it to his smart phone, word began circulating that the focus had already shifted to the Green Bay Packers.

Just back from the Bears’ locker room. Those guys have already moved on to next Sunday’s game against the Packers.

Bears HC Marc Trestman said this game tape is going “in the trash can” after coaches watch it.

Bears DT Jay Ratliff: “We’ve got to put this game behind us & focus on next week because next week is really what matters.”

Make no mistake about it. Everything the Bears have achieved on the offensive side of the ball and failed to achieve on the defensive side will be forgotten at 3:25 PM CT Sunday. All the Alshon Jeffery catches, Chris Conte poor angles and Adam Podlesh shanks will be considered prologue. Those sixty minutes at Soldier Field will now be how the 2013 season is remembered. A victory will give Marc Trestman a division title in his rookie season and the Bears a home playoff game the following week. A loss will give the Bears a book of questions that require answering before they report to Bourbonnais next summer.

One of those questions may be the most pivotal faced by any football organization: do we have a franchise quarterback?

Should Sunday’s performance against the Packers be the determining factor for Phil Emery in evaluating Cutler’s future in Chicago? No, of course not. General managers need to look at an entire body of work when deciding whether to cut a check for 75-100 million dollars. Barring an unexpected run over the next month, one would hope Emery and the Bears organization have already made their decision on Cutler’s future in Chicago.

Should Sunday’s performance against the Packers be a litmus test for Bears fans when it comes to trusting Cutler as the guy? Absolutely.

This is Week 17. This is the Green Bay Packers. This is one game to decide the champion of the NFC North. And I know those three sentences will spawn tired refrains of BUT IT’S A BAD DIVISION and THEY ARE GOING TO BE ONE AND DONE but all of that noise is defeatist bullshit. There are only three things a team can win over the course of an NFL season: the division, the conference and the Super Bowl. (And losing the Super Bowl relegates the conference title to the bottom of the crowded closet.) Division titles matter. Playoff appearances matter. If you don’t believe that go back and read the criticism of Lovie Smith at the end of the 2012 season.

Cutler needs a big performance Sunday. For his teammates. For the fans. Hell, even for the national media who seem ready to pounce on him for every gesture and facial expression caught on camera. (ESPN’s rail headline after the Eagles embarrassed the Bears was Cutler Comes Up Short.) Cutler needs the type of performance that comes question mark free. 21-30, 325 yards, 2-3 TDs, 0 INTs. Make smart decisions. Execute the offense. Extend plays with his legs.

Last week was a tough week with everything surrounding it, the implications of the game, if we did lose the game, having to walk into the media room and deal with you guys if we did lose. All those things weigh on you. So being able to move on from that, I think this week is a tougher week gameplan-wise for us, but we should be up for the challenge Sunday.

Now Cutler faces the prospect of having only one more football game before the most important three-month period of his financial existence. The pressure will not be coming from the critics or Josh McCown. The pressure will be coming from Dom Capers’ Packers defense. Cutler is 1-8 against Green Bay. 1 win. 8 losses. The excuse for not increasing that number to 2 can not be the lack of turnovers or porous run defense. Cutler has to overcome these overwhelming defensive deficiencies the way great quarterbacks do in the big moments. He needs to put more points on the board than the other guy no matter how many points the other guy puts up.

Soldier Field is the sight. Home of the Chicago Bears. If Cutler wants it to remain his home for his foreseeable footballing life, a win Sunday could go a long way towards achieving that desire. It would also put the sixty-one thousand plus in attendance and hundreds of thousands elsewhere firmly in his corner moving forward.

DBB NOTE: Due to the holiday this will be an abbreviated posting week. Barring any news of note, I’ll be returning Thursday with this week’s Game Preview. As always you can keep up with the thoughts and opinions of DBB by simply following me on Twitter. To do that, CLICK HERE.

Cutler is always given another chance to prove his “potential.” He has never delivered consistently, and even a win Sunday should not guarantee anything for him. He makes bad decisions and is not an accurate passer. He has bad body-language and leadership skills. It seems more and more apparent that he orchestrated the Trestman hire so that he would own the coach. Any coach with independent judgment would have left McCown in, as he was executing Trestman’s offense to a tee. Cutler is out there playing street ball. Why is Trestman so in love with him? Why is anyone? (other than his wife–that is none of my business). It is not fair to the fans at this point to give Cutler yet another chance. He should be done here. Sign McCown for two years and draft a QB that Trestman can make in his image.

Shady

Not sure how he orchestrated the hiring of Trestman so he could “own him”, sorta lost me and any credibility after that one.

McCown would’ve done better

Consistency. That’s a word that is thrown around in the NFL frequently. The guys that are deemed consistent performers usually are in CONSISTENT situations and schemes. Cutler was not playing streetball this year. He said he was playing streetball when they were down by 21 to 30 trying to claw back in it.
What is not fair is to have guys like Angelo and martz and tice and shitty o lines and average WR’s and TE’s like Davis and then to compare that QB and his success to guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning, etc who experienced much different coaching, personnel quality, etc.

BerwynBomber

You had me up until you started comparing Cutler to Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Manning. I think all those guys, at one point or another in their careers, have shown they are water-to-wine guys; that is, they can take unknown receivers and shaky O-lines and still kick ass. Just as an example, Rodgers has been playing behind a crap O-line for a few years, and with all four of those guys there are multiple examples when they lifted sub-par talent around them. Still, I agree that Cutler had some less than perfect hands dealt to him until this year and he’s had a new OC virtually every year, though I would say he’s always had a top-notch dual-threat RB playing behind him, which is no small thing. In fact, of those four guys, probably only Manning had that for an extended period of time with Edge James.

McCown would’ve done better

i wasn’t comparing them by any means. I was using them as examples of guys that have had consistency in their careers and were surrounded by those factors or most of the factors for much of their careers. They are also guys that are considered future hall of famers so it also speaks to the nature of the role of the team and how it plays into the performance of the individual.
Rodgers, Brees and Manning have never had “shaky receivers”. They have never known inconsistency of scheme. McCarthy does a great job of designing plays to account for the shaky line. Manning, Brees and Brady have never had bad lines with guys like Webb, Omiyale, Beekman, SPencer, Brown, Williams, etc.
Rodgers has had Nelson, Jennings, Driver, Jones and Finley around him since 2008. THe same guys for 4 to 5 years!!!!!!!
Manning had Dallas Clark at TE and HALL OF FAMER Marvin Harrison not to mention Reggie Wayne. Jesus man, talk about an embarrassment of riches.
Brees has been in the same system for fucking 8 years with one of the most highly regarded playcallers in NFL history in Sean Payton. He throws to Jimmy Graham who is on pace to break every TE receiving record. Guys lik Colston are just gravy.
Brady is coached by Bill Fucking Belichek and has never not had a bad ass play caller that designs offenses around the pieces of the puzzle available.
Those teams don’t feature traditional running games or didn’t until recently. They use the short rhythm passing game and screen/ dump off as a run.
We don’t know what guys would be like in other systems because the truly great ones have never bounced around from scheme to scheme or had huge shifts in personnel. At this point if you mention Manning I will kill myself. He went from throwing to Dallas Clark and Harrison/Wayne to Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker and Eric Decker. Those are weapons and the scheme is sound.
We don’t have those guys and we didn’t give the guy we have anything to truly work with. Those other guys got huge advantages and you see the result.

BerwynBomber

Hmmm … we will have to agree to disagree here. Again, you seem to want to compare Jay to those guys by saying “look what they had!” — the implication being that if Jay had the same he would be in the same class. But let’s look at Rodgers and Brady just this year: both are playing (or in Rodger’s case) have played with crap receivers. Rodgers lost two of his top WRs and TE and was throwing to guys of Johnny Knox-caliber. Brady has been throwing to unknowns for the entire year and had Gronk for all of couple of games. Plus, with Brees, was Graham on the team or even that huge of a force when they won the SB a few years back? Also, you are not taking into account that Jay DID have the luxury of QBing a team with a superb D and special teams for a handful of years. That counts a lot. In fact, I’d argue that even Brady benefited from that his first two SBs — certainly his first one — and hell, Rex Grossman got to an SB in such a scenario, and Trent Dilfer won one. You and I are on somewhat different sides regarding Cutler, but objectively (or so I’d like to think) I think you do your guy a disservice by comparing him to Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers. Keep it real is all.

McCown would’ve done better

I’m not comparing Jay to those guys. I am saying that a big part of consistent success is consistency on the team. All of the guys in this discussion have talent and top notch talent at that.

If I’m saying “look what they had” it’s because those pieces are crucial for success.

and when Jay did have that D and Specials we went to the NFC Championship game.

BerwynBomber

Again, agree to disagree as I didn’t think those Saints team were incredibly stocked and most would say Brees also makes a line look damn good at times by his ability to get rid of the ball so quickly. But hey, no one’s going to argue the crap O-lines Cutler often played behind.

McCown would’ve done better

The line was badass, their screen game was brilliant and the scheme eliminated sacks and pressures. That is why the additional of Trestman and Kromer is so exciting. The coherent scheme and the fact that they finally upgraded the line and WR’s is great. It sucks that it took them til 2013 to do it but they did it. I just don’t understand why we can’t let our QB benefit from this system now and will continue to hold the previous seasons against him even though he had shit to work with.
I just want to see the offense grow and there is no reason to fuck with it. The D needs the attention not the O.

BerwynBomber

Understood. And yes agree about the Saints screen game that year and I really like what Kromer has done thus far for us. Definitely a guy worth keeping. I also think Pierre Thomas is an underrated RB. Nothing fabulous but a hard-working dude who is versatile and dependable.

Irish Sweetness

Brees would have a full six seconds a lot of times with the whole defensive line splayed out on the ground in a star around him.

BerwynBomber

Btw, I like the new name, Waffle. THAT part of your frustration I get.

Adam Truelove

“He has bad body-language and leadership skills.”

I was with you until that sentence.

Shady

Cheapest ticket is $250 for Sunday.

Sactowns#1

Glad youre sticking with the new avatar Shady. And thats crazy expensive for the cheap seats!!

Shady

I feel like if the Bears are going to win this game, I need to be in attendance.

Who’s sponsoring me?

MB30SD

won’t sponsor you, but will support you. Get it done maing. Worth it.

Sactowns#1

Sponsor you? blogfather is the one who said they havent lost a game with him in attendence. We should be sponsoring him. Lets also send a case of FourLoko to the defense as well.

Shady

‘Fader was talking about prime time games, SNF, MNF, TNF etc. I was at the MNF game in Green Bay this season where Rodgers got knocked out so obviously I’m good luck.

CanadaBear

One thing no one mentions is Cutler is still not 100%. You can tell every time he hesitates to take off running. When he does run it’s at half speed. Not that he’s a running QB but he was always good at it and picked up a lot of first downs with his legs. Not making excuses for him, just a fact. Cutler makes throws most QB’s can’t. That comes in handy when the winds in Soldier Field are nasty. McCown can take us to the playoffs but it’s doubtful he could grab the brass ring. Cutler can. That’s the difference and that’s the reason he’s playing.

Shady

Good points.

MB30SD

yes good point… so the question needs to be answered.

Is cutty at McCown at 100%? Is his lack of mobility hurting us?

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

Cutler also gets up slowly, and I have a feeling his ‘mechanics’ have digressed because he can’t really plant like he normally does.

BUT, if that was the case, then Cutty was being selfish/arrogant in thinking an inj Cutler would be better than a hot healthy McCown.

Funny, when I suggested exactly the same thing a month ago, I got my ass jumped.

Irish Sweetness

Looking after the ball – not Cutty’s strogpoint – is at a premium in the playoffs, and I recall McCown doing his own comebacks and marching downfield when needs be. If there’s a fitness issue with Cutler then that’s another reason McCown should be in there. He was hot.

CanadaBear

Keep in mind McCown could have been picked off numerous times and almost all of them were dropped. That’s just good fortune.

SC Dave

Your point? That McCown is “luckier” than Cutler? And if that’s true, all the more reason he should be playing.

SC Dave

Sorry, not buying the “Cutler can.” He has not proven in any way that he can win ANY big game for the Bears, let alone a Superbowl.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

Putting Cutler in is like strapping on a condom: You may prefer to go o-natural (with McCown), but the prudent long term decision is to ride with Cutler for this division game.

I’m going to judge if Cutler is our future QB based on his performance, not win/loss.

This could cut both ways. If we win, but Cutler tosses 2 classic Jay INTs, gets stripped sack because he hangs the ball on his hip, or just looks jittery as he always has against the Pack, then it’s a Pyrrhic victory, and I’m going to jump on team “McDrago”.

If we lose because our D has more holes than the Iraqi navy, but Cutler looks sharp, no boneheaded turnovers, and performs inspired like he did against the Lions last year when he was getting blasted, then I’m willing to have him as our future QB (for the right price).

I have a feeling my Cutler agnosticism will be cured by Mon, and I’ll either become a Cutler believer or skeptic.

Shady

I feel like with that analogy McCown, the ‘safe’ option, would be like wearing a rubber, while going with Cutler would be the risky raw dog option.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

That should be Waffle’s new handle, “risky raw dog option”

gpldan

“Bareback Wafflin'”

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

“Risky raw dog option Y banana” for the true football connoisseurs.

gpldan

Good stuff. That’s good stuff right there.

Irish Sweetness

No condom. Straight in. As God intended.
J McC.

MB30SD

Damn, melton got his ass kicked.

Way to be a smart guy melton. You might have just gotten your ass kicked… off the bears. SMH.

Why is it that when Cutler plays the O-line looks worse than when McCown plays. Four words- “FEEL IN THE POCKET” Cutler has the worst pocket presence, feel in the pocket, & peripheral vision in the league. I know the line play wasn’t great, but man there were several times he had no idea the rush was coming… And a guy like Brees, Manning, Luck, or even McCown would have steeped into the pocket. It’s like ground hog day with him every night game on the road. It is not all the O Line. Here’s hoping the Bears use the $15 Million saved by letting Cutler go on their defense…

BerwynBomber

Yeah, the line didn’t play well but a couple of those sacks were also of the coverage/just-get-rid-of-the-ball variety. I’m not high on Cutler’s pocket presence but in fairness he did look a bit hobbled. Jay’s a see-it-and-fling-it guy and often doesn’t throw on anticipation of a route. His big arm allows him to do that but also leads to him holding onto the ball too long.

JR

Right, For sure the line did struggle some. But part of the reason Cutler is hurt and hobbled all the time is because he takes such vicious hits because he has no idea the rush is near. I use to be a Cutler guy, but I’m over the Cutty experience at this point. I just want a guy who knows what the hell he is doing out there. Plus I don’t see Jay staying very healthy over the next several yrs either..

McCown would’ve done better

stepped right into Trent Cole after he runs through Forte like he’s made of wet paper towel?

JR

I am sure Cutler had no idea Trent Cole was there, or any other rusher was around. He never does… Or it is just a huge coincidence that the line always plays so much worse when Jay is in. Weird…

McCown would’ve done better

even the writers and pundits I hate so much agreed that the line and Forte had a brutal game. They were not ready for the blitzes and multiple looks they saw. The players even admitted it. I know we think it’s a video game and somehow Jay should automatically just turn and whip it 50 yards into the stands but that’s not always possible. That’s why teams blitz…..it takes you by surprise.
The line played worse because they played a highly motivated team looking to fucking kill people. They were at home and playing in front of a raucous crowd. Tough environment.

Trac

All the Cutler talk aside, I have to say that going into week 17 with a chance to win the North is all that matters at this point in time.

BerwynBomber

I’m not a Cutler fan but I think he plays well this week. Let’s face it, the Cheese are a pretty crap team. What are they, 1-5 and 1-6 in the last six or seven games, and that one win had a ton to do with the coaching braintrust of the Cowboys not committing to a working running game with a sizable second half lead. (Plus, Dallas has the only D in the league that manages to make ours look potentially competent.) I like our chances and playing as poorly as we did at Philly might work to our advantage in terms of getting the worst crap out of our system before the final game.

gpldan

It IS all that matters. Win with Hester in the fucking Wildcat, but WIN BEARS!

Jesus, I could care less what happens in the playoffs, or bother watching the Super Bowl or anything – all I want is for the Packers not to back into the playoffs over the Bears.

Most important game since this blog’s been alive – and I’m not sure it is even close.

Win: The season – no matter WHAT HAPPENS NEXT – is a success and we build on it.

Lose: Devastating. Devastating to this town, humiliating as a fan, probably hurts skybox sales for the new regime, may seriously mark a low ebb in being a Bears fan in this city. The offseason will need near overhaul, and if our vaunted QB shits the bed, then the decision is made and this team rebuilds around new people.

Most GMs and HCs get a 5 year run. How this goes determines 2014-2018. Certain of it. Once Lovie missed his shot against the Colts, he was never going to rebuild that team properly. We miss knocking out the Packers, and Ginny might just croak in 2013.

Irish Sweetness

WIN: We go out in the first round. I wonder if Emery has the balls to cash Cutler in now.

LOSE: Cutler is tagged and traded.

Defense-heavy draft w/ running back.

SC Dave

A running back in the draft, when we have Canton-bound Ford waiting in the wings?

Still a Doug Plank Fan

My daughter, son-in-law, and grandson made the 2-1/2 hour one way trek this weekend to watch the game with us. After Detroit and GB lost, I told them I didn’t care if we lost to the Eagles, because it would be pretty cool to be fighting for the Division against GB in Soldier Field next week.

I had no way of knowing the loss would be such a complete train wreck when I uttered those words at dinner. I thought Matt Forte would make a much bigger difference than he did last night (for the positive), but I was not on the Devin Hester fan club roster. I had told them, though, that I felt McCown should be the starter last night, and not Cutler.

I’ve already posted a few times that I thought McCown had a better grasp of Trestman’s offense than Cutler, and for that reason, I felt McCown should have been allowed to keep starting.

For those of you – Jeff included and first and foremost – that keep dismissing McCown’s win against Dallas as being against their horrible pass defense, please wander over to any stat page on the internet and look up where Philly ranks against the pass. No one seems to be mentioning that today. No sense letting the facts get in the way of a fan rant, I suppose. But here’s one link of many: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense

They came into this week ranked 31st at NFL.com, and today at ESPN, they are ranked 28th. One slot above Dallas. If Jay Cutler is what his ardent supporters claim he is, then he should have ripped that defense apart, mercilessly. With Brandon and Alshon and the Bennett’s on the field, he should have put on an aerial attack that would have had Eagle’s fans embarrassed to be wearing their fan apparel in the stadium.

I’m guessing the Cutler-ites aren’t going to do anything more than yell loudly to drown out the argument, and keep pointing fingers at Trestman, the defense, the special teams, anywhere and anyone but #6. It’s admirable. We should support the man taking snaps in a Bears uniform. Always. I even recommended a McCutler Jersey with the number 49 (next year’s SB #) as a marketing tool for the Bears if we won out and fought hard in the playoffs in a previous post.

But Jay Cutler, over the course of last 5 years, has proven to be a taller, two-steps above Rex Grossman QB. Cannon of an arm, Rex had. When he was on (Good Rex) he was really on. When he was off (Bad Rex) he flat out sucked. Jay Cutler is Rex Grossman on half-strength steroids, with better receivers.

Back to the Philly debacle. SC Dave, Irish, and GP (http://dabearsblog.com/2013/packers-at-bears-for-division-title-next-week#comment-1174360706) nailed it in the last thread. GP really drove it home, and he’s right. The QB everyone keeps saying Cutler is gets in that fight last night, and he starts swinging (just saying you’re playing “street ball” sounds indefensibly immature – grow the fuck up); he finds his receivers against – are you listening? – the 28th ranked pass defense in the entire league.

When McCown beat the Cowboys, their rank against the pass was thrown in his face by many – Jeff included – like some sort of an indictment. Ridiculous. Cutler shits all over himself against the Eagles, and, well, it’s everyone else’s fault. Bullshit.

Fuck the D giving up a billion points, Hester’s fumble, our horrific safeties, injured D-line, Forte’s inadequate blocks, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum ad nauseum. If Jay Cutler is a great QB, he shows it in a game like last night’s, win lose or tie, score be damned.

He did not. Because he can’t. He’s Jay Cutler; better than Grossman, stronger-armed than McCown, and a mental mess. If he’s the winning QB next week, it changes nothing – certainly not who he is – and it doesn’t prove a damned thing. It gets us a home game in the playoffs. Then, we’ll have to hope that “Good Jay” shows up to give us a shot at playing a second time.

I hate that we didn’t give him a decent o-line, better coaches (Fuck you Angelo/Lovie/Martz/Tice et al), and before Brandon& Co., better receivers. We really took a good man with a lot of potential and beat the living hell out of him for 4 years. It’s embarrassing that we did that. I like Jay. I think he’s a good human being, and a good QB.

So I hope that next year, he lands with a team that he does well with. If it’s us again, then I hope he proves Jeff and the rest of you right. I really do.

He won’t. Because he can’t. He’s Jay Cutler. Best we’ve had in years, but we deserve better.

gpldan

Nicely done. It would rain ice in hell before Jeff would quote me, but 4Ever85’s quote was a response to that diatribe.

There is simply no POSSIBLE WAY to overstate the importance of next Sunday’s game. Period.

Let me re-iterate this:

NEXT SUNDAY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FOOTBALL GAME IN 20 YEARS for the Chicago Bears, the organization as a whole, the coaches, the players and yes, this possible franchise QB we are looking at.

It is THE GAME. There are no other options beyond winning. None. Win 7-6, 3-0 or 39-38, any manner of game will suffice. We need ALL PHASES, esp. a ST unit that has evaporated.

This game is a REFERENDUM on the state of what it means to be a Bear fan. I have never felt more convincingly that one game was a fork in the crossroad of an organization than next week.

BerwynBomber

Huge game, of course, but I would still put 2011 NFC title game and the 07 SB above it. In fact, I would put a couple/few playoff gams of the last 20 years above it too.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

But in those game, the next season the Bears really didn’t transition all that much.

This game will be a referendum on a franchise QB, and all sorts of defensive players, and imo, the DC and SP/T coach, not to mention how we’re going to feel about the HC all off-season.

Could you imagine if Trestman shits the bed like with the Eagles this Sun?

We’d be calling him Tresticles but not in a good way.

BerwynBomber

But I don’t know if it will matter that much in terms of next year with Trestman or Cutler. I think they’re both back — regardless of what happens Sunday. Not much drama there, though Cutler will be an issue of whether he is tagged or signed long-term. I think the major drama going into next year is who they bring back from the D, including Tucker. Now, if you’re talking from a pure fan’s standpoint, I semi-get you. But let’s face it, if they crap the bed on Sunday but come out like a house of fire next year we will all be sucked back in.

gpldan

If Trestman fucks this game, he and Cutler may both be back – but the city and the fans will have less interest and it will dictate how players approach wanting to play for the Bears.

NewBearInTown

If Trestman loses this game badly, he puts Emery in a really awkward position.
Do I cut Cutler? If I do that, I’m throwing my chips in with Trestman to develop a rookie or FA for the next 2-3 years. But if Trestman loses this game badly, I really don’t want to make that kind of long term commitment to him, so I guess I can’t cut Cutler.
Do I sign Cutler to a long term deal? If Cutler is the reason our offense isn’t scoring more points, I’m signing up for several more seasons like this one. Plus, it will make it harder to hire top offensive coaching talent if I decide to cut Trestman lose. No, after two big losses and a long injury absence, I can’t sign Cutler to a long term deal.
Do I franchise Cutler? I’ve got a lot of talent on the offense that will start getting very expensive to keep in 2015. Marshall’s deal expires after 2014. When Marshall gets a new deal, Jeffery will be three years in and will start looking for his big payday. Plus Forte’s deal will start getting stale. Can I afford to punt for a year with no confidence in Trestman or Cutler to plan for a long term solution? That doesn’t sound good either.
And I can’t trade Cutler because his stock will be at a real low point.
What do I do?

MB30SD

…what would you do NB?

NewBearInTown

Need more information man. Let’s hope it doesn’t happen.

Irish Sweetness

Low market value? Don’t see that being the case. Teams with no QB will look at Cutler and over-pay for his services. No question. He’s 30. Somebody likes him. Lots of teams in the league want to win now and have nothing going for them at QB.

Cutty’s price? Two firsts, or a first and a second, combined with the freed up cap space, we can rebuild the roster in one draft and FA period. McCown mentors the new padawan who watches from the bench for a season or two. To cement the roster, we take Kyle Orton away from Dallas. New defense … plus the QB position completely soldified for present and future. Bang.

Irish Sweetness

GP, do you really want to see us in the playoffs with a bust-up defense that can’t stop snot? I want to see us in the playoffs when we’re ready to dance, not be a gate-crashing old cripple.

gpldan

Being in the playoffs is incidental.

Putting down the Packer org is THE MOST important thing.

JR

Yeah I hear ya there. I actually feel pretty good about the Bears chances next week. But regardless of what happens Sunday paying Cutler major coin next yr (franchising) and future years is a huge mistake in my opinion. Time to part ways…

Viva

I think you are wrong about Cutler. I belive Cutler’s career is in dire need of continuity, and I think he knows Trestman is the way in which to acheive everything he wants to acheive in this game…
He has been pummelled his first 4 years here, and has always sacrificed himself for this team. I think his desire to win is self evident, but I can see how someone could lose sight of it. He wants to win.
This is the most important game of his career. I hope we win out, and Cutler gives us a discount, because we need a defense.

SC Dave

I don’t think Jay is the guy. I really, really don’t.

SC Dave

Amen.

McCown would’ve done better

Is Neckbeard going to be in primetime this sunday vs the Eagles? Romo ruled out per league source.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

We should roll with McCown just to complete the all back-up bowls. Foles, Orton, McCown and Flynn.

MB30SD

far as i’m concerned, foles ain’t no back up no mo.

Dude’s the real deal.

Irish Sweetness

He throws a mean screen.

MB30SD

hahahaha…. I wouldn’t know. Did he throw any against us?

Jesus, I wondered if they ran that play every single down instead of just every other play if we’d be able to stop it maybe just once that night. SMFH.

Can someone please hand conte and wright a coupla short samurai swords and tell them they know what to do. my god.

McCown would’ve done better

I can’t get behind the whole argument that if the Bears win next week it means nothing about Cutler and where the Bears are headed. People were sure as shit glad to blow McCown over that 7pt victory without Rodgers. Now if Cutler does it then it means nothing because we know what Cutler is after a handful of games in a completely new system? Bullshit. IF the Bears win and get into the playoffs then that’s what fucking happened. IF it happens we probably know why it happened…and that is probably not because Tillman magically reappeared and took 2 to the house. It will be because the offense got it done.
If they get it done i’ll give credit where it’s due. If they don’t get it done I’ll give credit where it’s due.

BerwynBomber

Depends on whether the same person/people are saying if Cutler plays badly it means the world. If they aren’t, then there is no intellectual dishonesty/hypocrisy in saying that if he plays well it won’t sway their opinion either.

JR

My feelings over Cutler coming back in the future have nothing to do with McCown or a home win against a mediocre Packer team whose been down and out. I don’t want him back because he has serious durability issues, a long concussion history, will hurt the Bears cap situation badly, and he really can’t feel pass rush pressure (I understand Cutler apologist blame it all on the line, i use to be that guy too).

Sactowns#1

And apparently I’m not the only one who notices Briggs was up about 30lbs yesterday. With zero tackles? SMH

JR

Ha… The guys on The Score this morning were blowing Briggs up. I think it was Spiegel who asked if guys who have shoulder injuries were allowed to do cardio, mocking him… Briggs had ballooned up in his time off for sure.

BerwynBomber

Yeah, one of them called it the “Burrito Rehab”.

MB30SD

hahahahaha… awesome.

Irish Sweetness

Lance Bags.

johnnywad

The two quarterbacks are viewed through the lens of their accomplishments and perceived abilities. The fact is McCown bounced around the league through 8 teams over 11 seasons because he just isn’t that good. He just had the best 4 game stretch of his career and a couple of them weren’t all that good. He was 3-2 in his five starts this year. And yet, he’s the future?
Cutler gets a longer leash because he’s thrown for nearly 5000 yards, has been to a Pro Bowl and he’s almost five years younger. In this league, Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers stand above everyone else. Russell Wilson may join them in a few years.
Its the hardest position in all of sports to get right because there just aren’t that many of them. Getting it right, puts you in the hunt. Getting it wrong leaves you where the Bears have been.
Cutler has the ability to be that guy. There is no other guy in the pipeline that is. Wanna roll the dice on the draft when you have the guy in the building with all the tools?
The Bears offense was ranked fourth in scoring heading into last nights game, 14 games into a new offense for a rookie coach. Both QB’s had a hand in it. Hopefully, they’re both here next year. Its pretty fucking simple.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

“Wanna roll the dice on the draft when you have the guy in the building with all the tools?”

You’re basing your argument on the premise that Cutler has ‘all the tools’.

The anti-Cutler camp does not believe Cutler has all the tools, and as such we must indeed search elsewhere.

Also note how I put down ‘questionable’ because I honestly don’t know for various reasons, but others would easily put ‘doubtful’ or ‘irreparable’ or whatever more negative modifier.

Berwyn Bomber

Good list and fair designation.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

It’d be interesting to see a pro-Cutlet make the same list for McCown. They might be surprised.

johnnywad

I’ve seen him play with all of those qualities. Price is not a tool. A good QB is expensive. Please explain how he isn’t a good leader.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

I don’t know if he’s a good leader. I don’t know if he’s a bad leader (or no leader). Only the guys in the locker-room know that. Hence why I put questionable.

Price is not a tool, but it does play a factor when deciding who should be our starting QB. McCown and a rookie will cost like $2M (if that). Cutler will cost at least $8-11M, and eventually shoot up to $18M.

I should probably add ‘consistency’ as a tool, but Cutler’s had so many different OCs and no weapons that it wouldn’t really be fair.

johnnywad

Aren’t you glad you’re not Emery?

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

Trestman and Emery will have the hardest scout job of the NFL this off-season. They got to evaluate if Cutler is a franchise QB worth approx $100 which will directly determine both of their NFL futures.

Some argue they already decided, but remember Emery didn’t decide to fire Lovie until AFTER they missed the playoffs last year. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Emery.

Cutler should remember that.

Irish Sweetness

What’s he on? $6 million a year?Works for the Bears? No, I wish I was Emery.

Irish Sweetness

Trading Cutler not only gives us pick power, but we’re not going to give whatever kid we draft 100M. He gets his usual bones as per. Tie him down for five – maybe the guy you want is in the second round.McCown gets a raise. Pep frees up more cash. This could be good, Emery just needs to pull the trigger.

The cockiness of a QB is normally inversely proportional to their greatness. Not always, but the “… aw .. y’know” shrugs when the wheels have come off again and he’s looking over the interviewer’s shoulder and he’s already onto next week yada yada. Let Houston pay him for that. Let’s mold a good one, and watch McCown enjoy his wonder years teaching him up.

Irish Sweetness

“Cutler has the ability to be that guy.”

But he’s 30. Elway made bad decisions for ten years before he figured some stuff out and/or had so many good players around him it was hard to stuff up. we’ve had four of Cutler almost getting there, but not quite. I vote against hitching our horse to the guy for a lot of shekels for the next six years. Been there, seen it, don’t want to buy the t-shirt. We need cash to fix this roster, not to overpay the leopard that promises to change his spots this time.

Have you been sitting around wondering, “I wonder what evantonio would say if i asked him to name his 9 favorite things from all the things that he witnessed in 2013” ? Sure! We all have! Here’s your chance to quell that hunger (there’s even a Bears shout-out in there. so i’m not totally off-base):http://www.upitpuppet.com/2013_things/

As long as there are no durability concerns, I give the safety a pass on size. What we need right now is a smart safety who can be in the right place at the right time. If he can’t stop the 60 yard breakout run, at least he can slow it down long enough for help to arrive.

Shady

You just described Craig Steltz…

Listen, if the Bears draft him I wouldn’t complain. Any addition at S would be an upgrade at this point. But I like going after the big boys in the trenches in the early rounds. I believe a dominant lineman can cover up weaknesses in the secondary better than the secondary can cover up for a weak front.

MB30SD

“I like going after the big boys in the trenches in the early rounds.”

Ooooh, I bet you do… I beeeeet you do.

MB30SD

NTTAWWT

Irish Sweetness

Plus a 6’3 corner. Shermans are needed.

MB30SD

I don’t know ANY of those players NB, but I LOVE the way you are thinking about our draft.

I hope trestman is thinking about a similar line up… maybe not the same players, but the same positions in the same rounds. Then we need known entities at S and DE or DT in FA.

Done.

NewBearInTown

The big thing about the off-season, which is still MONTHS away, is that I would bet money Peppers is getting cut. He might come back, but not without a big pay cut.
We’ve got plenty of cash to play with, we need the next Peppers. What do I mean by that? We need to sign an all-pro guy somewhere on the defense that can come in and make everyone better. Peppers was never the face of the D, but everyone liked him being there and he was a leader in a lot of games.
It could be a young linebacker (not likely), it could be another DE (likely), it could be a safety (my preference, let’s see who’s available). Whoever it is, we probably won’t draft the same position in round 1. Although, wouldn’t it be crazy to draft and sign two monster DEs to bracket the line? That would certainly change the face of our D.
Okay, enough. We’re going to beat Green Bay. We’re going to the playoffs. Then anything can happen.

MB30SD

personally, I would rather us find a franchise FS in FA.

Of course, it has to line up that way we can’t just wish it to happen. good dlinemen are much more plentiful than really great safeties.

If I had my druthers, we’d get an A+ FS in FA for a reasonable price (paging mr. rhodes?) and then pick up a seriously excellent and ready to play SS in rd. 1 or 2 depending on availability.

Then make our second big purchase in FA a franchise de… and fill the rest out with the draft. Corners and a good value at center should be our next priority.

My $.02 just based on perceived need, not actual info or knowledge about who’s actually going to be available

johnnywad

This +1. Seems like its easier for a rookie to step in and contribute at SS. So get one in the draft, then bring in a quality vet FS to fill out the back side. What about the Corners? Timmy J is probably back. Charles Tillman is breaking my heart. Favorite Bear for some time now. If he could come back and play two more years at a high level, I’d be all in. Can he get through a season anymore? Crossing my fingers.

Irish Sweetness

Why not get the pearl from the draft MB? With three first rounders potentially, the best safety in the draft might fall to your lowest first round pick.

Not that he was an answer long-term in the middle, I never got the love.

CanadaBear

Once Melt and Collins went down we were fucked in the run game (still are). It doesn’t help that Paea has been dealing with turf toe all year. We were thin at DT to start the season and then it fell apart. I would be in favor of drafting a DT in the first rd if there is one for the taking.

MikeBrownhadaPosse

?!? If he’s not the answer, what’s the question?

tobijohn

We could use a new punter too. I really don’t think the Bears are getting their money’s worth out of the current one. He’s middling at best…

MB30SD

ohhh, good point.

Irish Sweetness

We won’t be punting next year Tobe…..

Irish Sweetness

I like the idea of drafting two centers. You want him to be the center of your line for ten years. It’s worth investing effort in finding the right guy.

I have a difficult time deciding how I feel about Cutler. On one hand, he’s the best QB we’ve had since McMahon and by a long shot. He’s a top 10 QB talent whose just now got an offensive team around him. He suffered through a string of miserable offensive coordinators with little talent at the skill positions and zero offensive line, and still put up franchise best numbers. He was tough enough to take the beatings on the field and in the press, and there have been plenty. He’s mobile with a rocket arm and a fuck-you attitude. What’s not to like about the guy?

On the other hand, losing seems to follow him wherever he goes. His smugness is irritating and largely unearned. He’s a 30 years old type-1 diabetic with a concussion history and a few other injuries to boot. His pocket presence is questionable and his feel for pressure seems nonexistent at times. He’s reluctant to throw the ball away and his gunslinger mentality gets him and the team in trouble. His accuracy is hit and miss. His abillty to lead is luke warm at best and I’ve never really seen him rally his team behind him with anything other than his occasional play. Which is to say, he doesn’t seem to fire guys up.

So here we sit 6 days away from another key match-up against the Green Bay Packers. Once again the bears have a chance to knock their rival out of the playoffs. Like Jeff said, Cutler is 1-8 against GB. The bears had a chance to knock them out of the playoffs in 2010 and failed. They had a chance later that season at Soldier Field in the NFC championship game. Cutler didn’t finish and the bears lost again.

Rodgers is out. If Cutler doesn’t perform well here, I may have to join the cynic camp. I mean, how long can we make excuses?

Shady

MB30SD

hahahaha… fucking shady was just waaaiiittting for an opty to link that again.

while you’re at it, why don’t you link to your exercise vid too?

Shady

Personally I think the Bears (Stein) and Cutler (Cook) have been working behind the scenes on a long term deal. While Jay Cutler would be under major fan and media pressure if he were to choke on Sunday, I honestly don’t believe it will have much impact on a deal that’s already in the works.

Cormonster

Doc, I was gonna write a similar post earlier. I’m in the same boat. I was at Cutler’s first game as a Bear at Lambeau Field and he had at least 3 picks that were evident the minute the ball left his hand from my end zone perspective. I’ve seen several more picks at Soldier Field that were all WTF moments. Yet I’ve also seen amazing throws.

There’s a good chance I’ll be at the game this Sunday. Will the game this year be “the final straw” in my support of Cutler, similar to my opinion of firing Lovie after the Packers game last year? I hope not. But Cutler needs to start stepping up in big games, or he should go. 1-8 against the Packers is unacceptable. Cutler has shit the bed in most of those losses, and I’m tired of it. If he doesn’t step up in a big game like this, they I say start over and cut ties with this guy.

Since it’s Festivus, I got a grievance to air with Trestman. If I’m wrong about this, I apoligize. I thought I heard Trestman compare a division game earlier this year to “any other game”. BULLSHIT. Division games mean EVERYTHING. That’s the kind of shit Wannstedt used to say. He always had a good record against the AFC, but never put any emphasis against playing the Packers. The PACKERS ALWAYS put a big emphasis on playing the Bears.

Trestman is 4-0 against the AFC North, but 4-7 against the NFC, and 2-3 in the division. That shit needs to change before I start lauding this guy as a head coach.

MB30SD

fair statements

Shady

He said they were going to approach it the like they do each week, as if it were the most important game of the season.

Cormonster

That’s just semantics. Division games are way more important than any other games. Whatever people say about Ditka as a coach, he stressed division games and owned the NFC CENTRAL for about 10 years.

johnnywad

True but that’s easy to do when you’re working with Walter P and the best defense in history for many of those years.

Irish Sweetness

Man, I loved the Eighties. We just kicked the shit out of Green Bay, Tampa and Detroit. Week in, week out. For a decade. You might have screwed the playoffs that year, but the division got a rapin’. Sweet. Bill Murray sweet.

Irish Sweetness

If Trestman approached that shellacking like it was the most important game of the season then *fuck* him.

Irish Sweetness

For me it was the SF night game (thurs?/mon?) .. .Cutty had already killed us with 4 picks but incredibly the game was still winnable, all he had to do was go down field, score, and he was the MVP not the villain that night. Threw another pick right in the endzone. Straight at the fucker. Screwed the pooch at a polaroid convention. The ultimate footballing facepalm.

{Blog : Oh God, here he goes …}

Now you take a young man like James Robert McMahon, won at everything in life. Baseball, football, then marks his exit from things childish with the Holiday Bowl miracle comeback. Kicked ass the whole way through college, broke 44 records or some such. Kept the comeback mentality alive in the NFL until Charles Martin’s assassination attempt.
Let’s draft a guy with a promising CV.

Cutler does not have the CV of a winner. Next.

Trac

The truth Doc? What is truth? It’s there staring us all in the face but for some reason we try to bend it.

Irish Sweetness

You complete me Doc. In the words of McFly : “You are my density/”

MB30SD

even though he just got used on that TD, I’d love to pick up a rookie FS like eric reid. that kid is a total stud.

because you think he’ll be rusty and play like garbage? or because you want us to really beat the packers if we’re going to beat the packers to get in?

Shady

Exactly.

MB30SD

normally i would totally agree, but certainly not with this D.

Take that Al!

Shady

Oh you like to rap?

MB30SD

I thought this was going to be the booty vid. damn it.

AlbertInTucson

??

MB30SD

I was just messing around Al.

I rhymed

BerwynBomber

The problem is the rusty excuse will be semi-legit. And given that both teams are kinda crappy this year — this ain’t the NFC title ’11 redux — I’d just soon seen Flynn.

johnnywad

Same here Shady. I want the whole enchilada. Its a hollow victory without him running the offense and it means everything if the Bears beat him. I don’t want to skid sideways into the playoffs. I want the Bears to roll in proud.

BerwynBomber

Weird that SF and Carolina have clinched while the Saints could still be eliminated. I have loads of respect for Brees and company, but that’s a team that could look back on a couple of gaggy losses by season’s end — mainly at NE and NYJ — which cost them a slot.

kind of like a bears team that can look back to losses to washington and minnesota?

Trac

Week 9 highlights. Enjoy

Trac

“I think this is almost the perfect scenario to find out once and for all if Cutler is our QB.”

Jay Cutler is not the biggest concern on the roster. To me, that is the story, no way we can neglect our defense in the offseason. Jay Cutler will not get the big money deal and if he stays, he stays at a fair price. I think that Phil will let him walk if the choice comes down to Cutler vs revamping the defense. I think this question has been answered already.

jim

I have been saying for two years that cutler will never take the bears to a championship. He shows inconsistent accuracy, erratic decision maker, still immature. let him walk. draft a QB. Start mccown short term. draft to fix the defense. and, bears still need help at RT and Center.

Irish Sweetness

Basing a 100-120 million dollar contract should not be based on any one game. The body of work is there, the record against GB is a startling piece of information that gets added to the cv for Emery to peruse when the time comes.

I trust Emery to make the right call .., I just hope he doesn’t believe that leopards can change their spots.

Merry Christmas Bear fans.

CanadaBear

Back at cha, Irish! I’m conflicted about Cutler. I’m OK with the tag for next year and figure it out. If we’re in the same spot next year, cut the ties.

I find it difficult to belive that in a year our offense is in the top 3 (scoring) we are arguing the worthiness of its QB.
I know PE will not overlook that fact. This system, and our franchise QB, need cohesivness.
Do you know how many teams in the last 20 years have made the playoffs with a first year HC, OC, DC, and STC? I don’t know exactly what that number is, but I do know that it is a very very small number.
Building a winner takes patience and prudence.

MB30SD

again, fair points…

..now, let’s beat the fudge on sunday before we start handing out blow jobs and candycanes.

MB30SD

ooh rah!

johnnywad

Where does the line form for blow jobs and candycanes?

MB30SD

in front of shady

MikeBrownhadaPosse

I dunno, MB – I think Waffle demonstrated some nimbleness…not sure about the candycanes though.

MB30SD

very true rabbit, very true. We should at least offer it to him as well.

btw, we should have kept our plans. I’m kinda pissed. Given you another chance to shake the monkey from your back. Oh well. Let’s do next year

MikeBrownhadaPosse

Yeah, we sort of mistimed this one…lol

gpldan

THe modern NFL is knowing what you’ve got and not hanging on to the past and hoping.

I think Cutler is the kind of guy that is willing to sacrifice top dollar to allow his team to build a winner. If my assumption is correct, would that change your opinion of him? I base this on the fact that he is an intense competitor, he plays for every inch, and he has, to date, ruled out endorsement deals until he wins a ring.

Irish Sweetness

Viva, I don’t mind paying a QB fair market price, I just don’t think it should be Cutler. For a year, a one-off deal of 8M … I’d take Josh. Why would Jay take 10M here when a few teams would give him 20?

Viva

He wants to be a Bear. He knows the system, he trusts Trestman, he has all of the pieces in place, and he knows he can thrive here.

BerwynBomber

I wonder if McCown will bolt. If I were a GM with a hopeless QB situation on my hands — think CLE or Jax, etc. — then I would be willing to overpay McCown for a year to back-up or tutor my first-round draft pick. And unlike us they will have the money to overpay a back-up.

tobijohn

I think most GMs realize that McCown’s success this year was primarily due to Trestman’s system, a serviceable O line and four big playmakers. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan Palmer thrived in that same environment…

BerwynBomber

I disagree (unless Jordan Palmer is a young QB wise WAY beyond his years). Remember one thing about McCown: he came in at the end of 2011/Caleb Hanie back-up fiasco, and with one week of practice looked like a competent NFL qb in the W17 game against Minny (I believe that was also the game where Lach injured his knee). Plus, he has “team guy”/tutor written all over him.

tobijohn

Good point. What I should have said (and what I meant to say) is that a lot, not all of his great showing was due to those factors I mentioned. I’m hoping that a lot of GMs write it off to that and don’t bid him up. I know PE is high on him (called him a “glue guy”). I’m really hoping he’s back. NBIT pointed out that with Pep gone or playing for a fraction of what he’s scheduled to make next year, there will still be plenty of cap left to fix the D side. I don’t know, I like Cutler as much as the next guy but I can’t help but think what you could do with $34M (Peppers salary and the QB franchise tag)….

MikeBrownhadaPosse

You would pay Josh McCown $8 million?
A 10x pay increase to a 34 yr old career backup.
Your argument is fail.

Irish Sweetness

For a year …. while Bridgewater earns his wings on the bench … why not? You were going to pay Cutty 20 million+, so how is 8 for Josh not a good deal? He seems like a good teacher, he leads by example for a year or two, then retires having had his best years right at the end. Sweet. Well worth eight million a year.

No Melton, no Pep, no Cutty. That’s about an extra 40 million dollars to fuck around with right there. With a couple of top round picks to boot in from the Cutler trade …. like the sound of that. That’s a team who’s well built moving forward.

If we sign Cutler long term, then that’s a heavy cross we’ll have to bear, wearing our crown of thorns. The guy who plays nice, smart, football, is sitting on the bench, wanting less than half of what Richie Rich wants.

So long Jay. You were good, coulda been great, but you wouldn’t listen to people who knew more than you. Wish you well down in Houston back with Lovie and Rod.

Perfect scenario – this offense with a Cutler who throws the ball away when it’s not on, spread it around, scrambles more. makes finesse throws when required. looking after the ball, be better at audibles. Just ain’t gonna happen. If he took his coaching and put a premium on moving the chains be it a run, or a screen, over a busted play, then he could have been great. It’s just not in his makeup.

Sorry Jefe, if Cutty puts up 21-30, 325 yards, 2-3 TDs, 0 INTs. against a Rodgers-less, Matthews-less Packer team, it proves nothing. We know who he is – it’s only a question of whether you want to throw 110 million dollars at him for more of the same.

And it’s not defeatist bullshit to say one and done if we get in, not based on what’s left of our defense. Can’t hang in the playoffs when your D can’t stop a nose bleed. Four years is long enough for any experiment. We realize a depreciating asset and get what we can for him in draft picks.

BerwynBomber

I could see us squeaking out one in the WC round merely because of HFA. But in the second round? On the road? With this team? That’s where my vision fails.

MB30SD

We get to the second round of the freakin playoffs and lose, not eagles lose but normal lose, and I will be ecstatic.

A first year coach, first year system, second year GM… are you kidding me? I’ll sign up for that every single day.

…let’s beat the packers first, and Irish, I don;t give a shit if they start fucking mike mccarthy at QB and OLB. We don’t have an entire fucking defense. Fucking common man!

BerwynBomber

Well, we SHOULD beat this particular Cheese team on our home turf. But yeah, a first-round playoff win would be icing. But hey, against NO/Carolina/AZ I feel we would have a puncher’s chance, though against SF I think we’d be toast.

MB30SD

Agree with all that, but again… just getting there is a statistical anomaly for us. ESPECIALLY with the injuries we’ve had.

Can one of you stats guys look up how many 1st year HCs got to the playoffs? I know it’s a small number… especially with a defense that looks like ours.

I will be pretty excited when we make it in… especially beating the fucking packers to get there. Amazing they are still in it with us. Pisses me off.

BerwynBomber

Of recent vintage, both Harbaughs (I believe) lost in their conference title games their first year and Tomlin may have reached the playoffs his first year too. Going back a ways I wonder if Gruden did it in Oak or Reid in Philly. Thing is, this year you could potentially have four do it: Trestman, Kelly, Arians and that guy in SD whose name I’m forgetting.

MB30SD

yeah, I know. Still, we’re one of three… ain’t no way everything pans out for the chargers. but I think he’s going to be better than the last regime.

BerwynBomber

Yeah, sounds like the Fish are in the driver’s seat for the last AFC spot, though at best I’ve only glance at the scenarios.

All I want for Christmas is a Super Bowl Win..a Super Bowl Win..a Super Bowl Win…all I want for Christmas is a Super Bowl Win..So I can whistle PACKERS…YOU SUCK!!!!
Merry Christmas All…and you too Cheezy!

Trac

Uh, Uncle Larry? When was the last time a team from the North won the division with a 9-7 record?

tobijohn

Lions – 83, Bucs 81, Vikings 80

Still a Doug Plank Fan

Merry Christmas y’all. Thanks for being here, and generating the most intriguing blog on the net bar none when it comes to my beloved and bedraggled Bears. Been coming here since the first-ever site, and it just keeps getting better every year, because of y’all.

I hope every one of you have a fantastic Christmas, no matter how you celebrate it.

And thanks, Jeff, for all your hard work, and spinning the wheel every week. You’re why we all show up. May not always like what you have to say, but I still read you first.

johnnywad

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well Plank. And I agree, this is a great place to get all the angles and think. I know you and I disagree on Cutty, but you always bring reasonable thought to your posts. Keep it up and hang around for the off season.
Bear Down.

Still a Doug Plank Fan

Yeah man…thanks. How fun would it be if we all just replied “ditto” to one opinion, anyway? It’s what I like about this place.

I often have this mental image of all of us in a large bar when I’m in here reading or posting or both. It’s cool to drift from “table to table” or one end of the “bar” to the other and hear what you and everyone has to say about all things Bears. I’ve learned more about the game I thought I knew than I’ll ever be able to share just from hanging out in here over the years.

I’m all in for the offseason this year and looking forward to it; just hoping that doesn’t start for another 6 weeks or so…and like I said before, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong about Jay.

Bear down, and fuck GB!

gpldan

Saw American Hustle.

They say the mark of a great actor is he can own a role he was mis-cast in. Bale was mis-cast, but he still owns the role.

Role was meant for Jon Favereau, but Bale owns it.

BerwynBomber

Wanna see it. Heard Bale and the supporting cast rock. Also heard the new Cohen film is dang good too.

MikeBrownhadaPosse

Taking my gorgeous date to it in about a week. I’m so batting above my average with her, it’s ridiculous.
#humblebrag

CanadaBear

Good for you! Somebody has to bang hot chicks and it might as well be somebody I like.

gpldan

Nice.

ChiBears34

What is the definition of insanity? Jay Cutler is in his fifth season with the Bears, does it show in his play? His interception ratio vs TDs? His decision making in the pocket or when scrambling? I am embarrassed every time I see him play for the Bears? He is in his eighth season as a NFL QB, does it really show? Or should we continue down the path of “more of the same”? He is not a great QB and never will be. Cut our losses and move on. Lovie was shown the door last year, may somebody please show Cutler the exit? Want to win on Sunday vs GB, play McCown.

johnnywad

You missed a question mark there after “GB”.

ChiBears34

Totally true, but this is not about grammar right now. It is about making a season ending decision that will affect us all. I am tired of reading the posts protecting Cutler, we know who he is.

johnnywad

Its funny that McCown’s last four games are the only ones that count but Cutler is constantly shit on for his games when J’Marcus Webb was his left tackle, Devin Hester his #1 receiver and Mike Twice his coordinator. McCown’s career stats in 11 seasons are as follows …. 50 TD’s to 45 INT’s and 8800 yds. 8800 yds in 11 seasons. That’s your guy? See that 50-45. Let that sink in. He’s had a nice run this year but that guy is not a #1 QB and never will be. He’s said it, his OC said it and his HC said it. Quit ignoring reality. Cutler leaves and we’re back to a quarterback wasteland. Has he been perfect this year? Not even close. But I can’t wait to see what he looks like after another year or two with Trestman.

Trac

If Cutler leaves Chicago, I can envision him having a decent run with another team kinda like Harbaugh did when he joined the Colts.

BerwynBomber

That would be a pretty high standard. Captain Comeback, I belief, won the NFL MVP one year — or maybe it was AFC MVP or runner-up — when he was with the Colts. I remember they were inches away from making to the Super Bowl and beat two teams on the post-season road prior to the AFC title game.

Trac

Patience is hard to come by and Jay needs to be patient with the rock. His arm makes it too easy for him to get sloppy. If he can do this, he would greatly improve his game. Trestmans game plan requires a heady QB.

ChiBears34

Let me help you, he is and always will be a “middle-of-the-road-QB!” He is not Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees, but he sure wants to be paid like one. i am willing to take a chance with the Kaepernick’s or the Wilson’s that are out there, because you and Jay need to have a long look in the mirror. I am not saying nor implied that McCown is the future of the Bears, so let me be very blunt, Jay Cutler sucks and will never get you to the big game. It’s reality and it is a hard pill to swallow for some. Who would you rather have today, Cutler, Kaepernick or Wilson throwing the brick For me the easy answer I would take the others over Cutler. Merry Christmas!

johnnywad

Kaepernick is no better than average right now. Wilson is a brilliant surprise for the Seahawks. 32 teams passed on him twice, and ten more passed on him a third time because nobody expected him to be any good. So if your plan is simply draft the next Russell Wilson, good luck with that. We should shoot higher. Let’s just go ahead and draft the next Tom Brady. Hell we can get him in the sixth round at the 199th pick. Then, we can still rebuild the D AND draft a future HOF QB in the same off season. It’ll be great. Like when the Bears last drafted a quarterback, Nathan Enderle, or was it Jordan Palmer? No no it was the kid from Central Michigan, Dan Lefevour. Oh no, my bad , it was Caleb Hanie. Yeah, Jay should definitely walk, we’ll draft one.

Irish Sweetness

Russell? You guys don’t play fantasy.

And Emery hasn’t drafted us any QBs yet, give him a chance. Saying there’s no point in drafting a quarterback …? Come on.

johnnywad

We should definitely draft one. We should draft one every year. But until we have a young one on the roster thats better than a
much older Cutler, we keep Jay too.

Irish Sweetness

Not so fast Johnny. We’ve all seen him stand in there with the DL pancaked around him and he’ll still rifle it into triple coverage. He can’t help it. I believe my eyes. McCown meshes with the offense – he moves the chains and looks after the ball, he makes nice smart passes, nice reads. You want to look at stats, look at McCown’s stats THIS season, anything else is irrelevant. There are two QBs have had this offense under them, what was the result. That’s what we look at, not cherry-picking stats to support our case.

Cutty doesn’t listen, he won’t change, and signing him is therefore insanity.

Trac

The definition of insanity? How about being a Bears fan? It sure has felt like it at times over the years.

ChiBears34

Let me change the thread and ask an honest question, when the Bears were down big against Philly Sunday night, did you really think that Cutler would orchestrate the comeback? Nope! he got very luck in Cleveland, the pass to Jeffery was all Jeffery, Cutler knows it and so do we. I am a realist and know that regardless of the outcome vs Green Bay, Jay Cutler should not be the future. One simple question beyond the stats, what is the farthest that Jay Cutler has LED a team in his career in the playoffs? Kaepernick humbly states “Superbowl”, Wilson states wait to this year is done, and Cutler chooses to remain quiet and points a finger at the coach, special teams, defense and the fans. Enough said.

bearsfantillend

Jay has led us to the NFC Championship game.
When has Jay ever pointed his finger at the coach or fans?
This year he has had ample reasons to point fingers at special teams and defense. Yet i don’t recall him saying a bad word about them.

ChiBears34

How many games has Cutler started and won for the Bears in 2013?

bearsfantillend

he started 10 games and won 5 with the worst Defense in the league and the worst Defense in Bears history

Maybe should have won 6 or 7 though .. .see where this is going? You’re making a positive out of a 50% record.

bearsfantillend

nope – my point is that we are a .500 team with one of the worst defenses in the league and the worst defense in Bears history. If someone is going to argue a QBs record you have to put it into context of the team performance also.

ChiBears34

Cutler five wins and five losses, McCown (as a back-up) is three wins and two losses.

bearsfantillend

LOL, do you believe Cutler could not have won the 3 games that McCown won?

Irish Sweetness

He would have thrown more interceptions and stalled more drives, so it’s very possible, yes. Josh spreads the ball around and doesn’t force it. I could give a fuck about Jay’s big arm. Got Marino nowhere. Doesn’t mean a thing if you don’t know when or how to use it.

bearsfantillend

Biggest misnomer on Jay, is that he doesn’t spread the ball around. Go compare game stats between Jay and Josh when it comes to receiver targets. You will notice catches and targets for the receivers are about the same between the 2. With the exception, that when Jay gets in trouble he looks for BM, while Josh looked for Jeffery.

MB30SD

Don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that ring?

McCown would’ve done better

You’re saying that Marino had a big arm and that it got him nowhere. Look at the teams he played on. Those teams weren’t built for success. Football 101.

Irish Sweetness

Cutty would want some serious numbers before he could point th efinger at the defense. ANd for what? For being decimated by injuries? How many defenses in the NFL could lose ten guys and put out a team?

MB30SD

You’re being a troll dude.

Trac

No MB, opinions like his need to be heard. I think most Bear fans are on the edge with Cutler because he has not shown the improvement we were hoping for. Cutty just needs to start playing smart and you can’t blame fans for reacting. The Defense sucks so badly and fans are taking out their frustrations with his decision making.

Irish Sweetness

And we’ve been saying the same things for four years, Trac, so to then go ahead and sign him .. I just don’t think Emery’s that stupid.

let me ask you. when hester fumbled the kick-off, did you think that cutler should have been there to pick up the ball? mccoy bounced his first run of the game for a first down and more, do you think the cutler should’ve been the one holding contain on the edge? when forte couldn’t effectively pick up the blitz, do you think cutler should’ve knocked the LB on his arse before firing the ball downfield?

and also, let me ask you. on the pass to jeffery in the cleveland game – was it jeffery who fired the ball 55 yards downfield in spite of getting him while his arm was moving forward because the pocket collapsed into him? because if he didn’t make that throw, then the play wasn’t all jeffery.

AlbertInTucson

That was a REALLY crappy punt Sunady night by Cutler, too.

bearsfantillend

I do think Cutler could have gained more yardage than Forte on the safety. so it was his fault for handing the ball off. LMAO

Irish Sweetness

When Hester fumbled the KO I was thinking, ‘Damn, that fucker is still on the roster?” ….

MB30SD

Finally a reasonable thought.

Pull it together maaaan!

CanadaBear

First time his fumble was responsible for a turnover in 4+ years. I’m not saying Devin is great at this point in his career but he’s had very little room to run all year. With all the injuries it kills our ST’s.

careful, now. according to this blog, he’s predicted to break one each and every week.

Irish Sweetness

At 14-0, yes I expect my QB to be able to overcome a headstart. It didn’t phase McMahon if he was three TDs behind. That’s how winners roll.

McCown would’ve done better

name one time he came back from 14-0 , jesus.

Irish Sweetness

28-0 Tampa Bay. About the same against KC. Great games. I still have em on tape.

CanadaBear

The difference being both games you mentioned the D finally stopped the bleeding. This D was never going to stop the bleeding.

ChiBears34

Jay Cutler is a “retread” from Denver who were bright enough after three seasons to cut their losses and move on. We have watched the same movie for five years expecting a different outcome. Even with our offensive weapons, it is still the same old Jay.

bearsfantillend

In the 3 years in Denver Jay’s stats got better each year, he was shipped off because of Josh McDaniels, who drafted Tim Tebow, says something about his ability to judge QBs. McDaniels also showed pretty quickly he was not a good HC. He came to Chicago, which for several years had no offensive weapons except a running back, and no offensive line.

BerwynBomber

He had Greg Olsen the first few years. And played on teams with top-notch Ds and STs — at least in terms of his W/L record. But yeah, sketchy O-lines and mediocre receiving corps. I actually thought Martz was a better OC than he was given credit for, but Ron Turner never flashed much and Tice was a line coach in over his head.

bearsfantillend

kinda agree with Martz but his offensive schemes did not match up with the talent on the field especially on the O-Line. also sometimes i thought Tice was in over his head at Line Coach much less OC

BerwynBomber

Yep, decent point about the ’11 squad, but even setting aside Cutler quantifying (or in that case, the pure disaster that was Caleb Hanie) our D tired out the second half of that year. I think we saw the same thing last year too. Somewhat natural, I suppose, for an elite-yet-aging defense .
Agreed about Martz’s inflexibility.

bearsfantillend

For the record, i am not entirely sold on Jay. But if you are going to argue to get rid of him you got to come up with better reasons to convince me.

4ever85 (AKA Butch Deadlift)

This Sunday.

Irish Sweetness

Reasons to get rid of Cutler ? Really?

1. The 110 million dollars you don’t have to pay him.

2. The two first round picks you get for him (or 1st/2nd/3rd).

3. The brand new rookie you get to draft who’s had no concussions, listens to his coaches and looks after the ball, and doesn’t cost you 20 million a year.

4. We’ve already got a better QB on the roster, and so the drafted QB doesn’t have to carry the franchise fright away.

5. We could trade him to Detroit or Minnesota and then invest in our DBs. Then we sweep them year in year out

bearsfantillend

i think you are getting ahead of yourself a little.
1. No one knows what it is going to cost to resign Jay. all we know is it will be about $17mill for a non exclusive tag.
2. we get 2 first round picks if we put a non exclusive franchise tag on him AND another team is willing to give him a deal that we don’t match.
3. again where is the $20 million a year number coming from? Emery already has stated he is hesitant to use the Tag on Jay because of the high cap hit.
4. McCown better than Cutler- is highly debatable. also McCown is not signed through next year either. no guarantee he will resign.
5. Detroit really??? they already have Stafford wrapped up to a long term deal, and he throws more interceptions than Jay. I could almost see Minnesota but i think they will move forward with Cassel.

Irish Sweetness

#5 was tongue in cheek. But we could take advantage of him if ended up in our division. We’d know how to play Jay, and it would start with a carefully worded tweet from a CB….

MB30SD

Trade him to our two rivals. .. ok… now I got to say it… wtf is wrong with you. You are fucking insane. Why the hell would you even suggest that? !?!

johnnywad

He demanded a trade and Denver got two firsts, a third and Kyle Orton. That’s not cutting your losses.

Josh McDaniels has been slaying it in Denver since he made that trade.

MikeBrownhadaPosse

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you, you crazy band of hooligans…haven’t been around as much as I expected to, at least posting-wise, this year but damn if it hasn’t been interesting.
As so many others have pointed out, if I’d have told you six months ago (and I know did) that in five days, we’d be watching the beloved take on the Packers for a winner-take-all shot at the playoffs, you’d jump at it.
So, as a present to all of us, Halas Hall obviously told our guys to take a breather, get us all amped up, and then tea-bag the shit out of the Packers on Sunday afternoon.
Obviously.

NewBearInTown

I think a lot of folks (myself included) posted that the season would come down to this game. Earlier in the season, I figured it would be us taking on the Pack to earn a wild card spot. Then Carolina happened and Rodgers got hurt. But it came full circle to what we all expected – Bears vs. Packers in the cold for a shot at the title.
Football is awesome.
And happy holiday to those who are celebrating. I’m not always around, but this is a great crew to chat with when I am.

johnnywad

Merry Christmas boys. Kids are finally out. Time to drag out the goodies. Yay Baby Jesus!!!! Love this time of year.

AlbertInTucson

Quandry; Root AGAINST the Cowboys because they are Owned/GM’d/Psuedo-Coached by Jerra Jones or Root FOR the Cowboys because Kyle Orton is now the WB?

bearsfantillend

NECKBEARD!!!!!!

Viva

OR…
root for Boys, because we would rather face the Saints than the 49ers in the playoffs.

AlbertInTucson

Good call, Viva! We have a winner! Go Kyle!

NewBearInTown

This.

Trac

I got this from an old article after the Cutler trade from Denver
.

“Chicago got the big prize here,” Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. said.
“The way this trade worked out for both Chicago and Denver is proof why
teams don’t trade young, franchise quarterbacks. It’s just not something
you do.”

What bothers Williamson and Horton most about the trade is what Denver did with the picks it got in the Cutler deal.

5 Years later, the Bears are on the verge of rebuilding their D and as a team, they could be in worse shape now than when they traded for Cutty. Sure our offense is better but our D and Special Teams squads are a mess. Denver is on their way to a first round playoff bye. Hindsight is 20/20 and Cutlers impact so far seems to have been short term, not long term. Could it be that Cutty’s window is closing? The key to salvaging Cutty will come down to how reasonable his next contract is AND if he decides to play smarter. Cutty reminds me of Phillip Rivers and I can’t ever see him being a Bree’s or Brady type guy. What are our options outside of Cutty? At this point in time, he’s our guy and there is no one waiting in the wings to take his place. If the Bears pay him top 5 money, we won’t be able to afford Alshon AND Marshall when their contracts come up, what then?

In 2008 before we traded for Cutler, the Bears finished 9-7. 5 years later, with a win over the Packers, the Bears would be 9-7. I would argue that our squad in 2008 had a better shot at winning their first playoff game had they made the post season, than this 2013 squad does if we make the playoffs.

This is what most Bears fans are pissed about. We should be better than this.

He did squander them. He gave them(plus Orton) away for Cutler. I didn’t know any better, Angelo should have.

Irish Sweetness

There’s no-one in the wings waiting to take his place, Trac? Who’s Josh McCown?

How does Cutty remind you of Rivers? I wish he was – Rivers is the second highest rated QB in the NFL ….

Trac

Putting all our marbles on McCown is a one year temporary fix. Maybe he would give us more than that but we’d still have to draft a QB this year with a 1st or 2nd rounder and based on where we draft, I don’t see that as a viable solution. The only guys we’ll be able to draft would be of the Ponder and Sanchez mold and our Defense needs more help than one draft will fix.

tobijohn

I was going to post about thinking it would take more than a year to bring the defense back. However, with the offense set for a while, if the D/ST can make it back to around the top of the lower third of their respective rankings, we should still have an awfully good team next year. Then 2015 should be a killer year. I keep reminding myself that this has to be treated as investing, not daytrading…

Trac

Phillip Rivers stats are bunk and are mostly come from way behind stats. He has the same Jeckyl and Hyde games that Cutty does.

Irish Sweetness

What are we looking for at QB? This.

Defense falls asleep and we’re down 28 points at halftime? No Problem.
Behind at Minny? No problem.
How many TDs were we behind KC that time? No problem.

Results. Winning. No excuses.

bearsfantillend

nostalgia gets the better of even the best of us.

Lets look at McMahon a little closer
1. injury prone QB that could not play a complete season
2. 3 out of the 7 years he was with Chicago he threw more interceptions than TDs,
3. averaged 170 passing yrds per game
4. quarterback rating of 80

I loved McMahon, but he is not the QB I think of when looking for the Ideal QB. The main thing McMahon had going for him was his leadership ability. If he could have stayed healthy, we could have won more than 1 SB.

But if anyone would show you his stats without a name and say he was going to be the Bears next starting QB, every Bear fan would blow a gasket. BTW, besides the Win/Loss record, do you know who McMahon’s career stats closely compares to. KYLE FUCKING ORTON!!!! People need to quit living in the past. It is great in our memories but when you take a closer look, it is never quite as good as we remember.

tobijohn

” It is great in our memories but when you take a closer look, it is never quite as good as we remember”
Reminds me of just about all of former girlfriends (and ex-wife)…

AlbertInTucson

Except that I have the 1985 DVD set to review

BerwynBomber

Ok, I’ll defend McMahon a little bit even if I think he was not more than slightly above average or even average. First off, comparing stats from different eras is a little bit foolish. It’s like saying Joe Montana and John Elway suck because their season stats would leave them in the lower half of today’s QB averages. It was a completely different era then — as different from now, passing-wise, as their own was different from Sid Luckman’s; a guy like Marino was an outlier, Fouts too. Even the INT>TD stat was not highly uncommon. I believe such guys as Namath, Stabler, even Bradshaw finished with more INTs than TDs, career-wise. Granted, those guys were at their peak a solid decade before McMahon, but even in McMahon’s era it wasn’t the utter red flag it is now. Likewise, I’m guessing 170 YpG was about the league average or not tremendously below it — though there was no denying the Bears were a run-first team with Payton. Also, one of the first thing Cutler apologists bring up is his lack of weapons his first four years. Guess what? Earl Bennett was better than any WR McMahon ever threw to. And Kellen Davis (let alone Greg Olsen) was probably more of a threat than any TE McMahon had at his disposal. Anyway, I don’t consider myself a Jay Cutler hater but I remain dubious of the guy after five years here and eight or nine in the league. Likewise, I sometimes think the contextualizing of Jay excuses is one-sided or only part of the entire context. But the good news? I think he plays well on Sunday and we make the post-season.

bearsfantillend

I am not dissing McMahon in anyway, i loved him. I was just trying to point out peoples memories don’t match reality. The point i was trying to make was McMahon was an average QB, who was injury prone. You are correct about interceptions being >TDs in the time period, but 170 yards per game put Chicago in the bottom 3rd in passing offense for most of the 80s. I also agree with you on the fact that most arguments for or against Jay do not take in all factors and the performance of the entire team.

BerwynBomber

And yes, I would NOT dispute that McMahon was injury-prone. Poor guy. Blessed with an LB’s mentality but cursed with a PK’s body. In fact, Butthead was probably more buff than McMahon. But yeah I agree: he wasn’t much more than average.

CanadaBear

McMahon brought on a lot of punishment by being such a dick to the refs. The refs would let anyone and everyone pile on, hit late, any cheapshot was OK. Hell, even Charles Martin only got thrown out of the game and assessed a $5 k fine. If my memory is correct, it took them a minute or two to toss him from the game. Honestly, I think they tossed him so the game didn’t go crazy. If someone did that now they would be suspended for at least a year and maybe for life. It was that bad.

McKinnon was a great WR and tough as nails. That toughness ended his career too. AND having Walter is like having Forte, Bush, Ford and a couple more guys. Not to mention, if McMahon scored 21 points it was almost a certain win.

BerwynBomber

Yeah, I wouldn’t argue Walter was equal to about three RBs. Then again, Forte is hardly chopped liver in this era as a duel threat. And yes, McMahon was blessed to play with some tremendous defensive teams, but let us not act like Cutler played with shitty ones until this year. (And Jay has also played on teams with top of the league special teams until this year too.) My biggest point with the Cutler excuses is not that they are necessarily wrong but they don’t tell the whole story. Yes, Jay’s OL and WR corps were often crap his first four years and no one would argue the carousel of OCs. But he did have Forte and, at times, Olsen, and in terms of his W-L record, he was generally on teams w/ excellent defenses and special teams — Jay has worked with a lot of short fields. And as bad at pass-protecting as some of those O-lines were Jay’s penchant for holding onto the ball and his generally weak pocket presence didn’t always help in terms of QB hit and sack rates.

bearsfantillend

Agree on Jay holding onto the ball too long, but the infinite series of 7 step drops and long developing pass routes did help either.

Irish Sweetness

When you look at the footage from that time, it was a much more brutal game back them, he wasn’t so much injury prone as it was just brutality dole out week after week in a much more dangerous game.

BerwynBomber

McMahon would be injury-prone in this era too. Much more about his physical make-up than the brutality of the era.

bearsfantillend

agree it was much more brutal of a game, but McMahon missed a lot of games, some years he did not even play in half the games.

Irish Sweetness

You jest at Robocop Thornton, you jibe at Cap Boso ? Fffft.
But whoa nelly. Bennett is better than McKinnon or Gentry? Even Margerum was probably better than Earl- not slighting Bennett though, I think Jim had some pretty good receivers, although the kind of targets Cutty had on the field against GB were all-time great. That’s why I was so surprised that nothing happened offensively (though that’s hard to do when you go 14-0 down)

AlbertInTucson

Margerum got into Ditka’s doghouse and never really got out of it.

AlbertInTucson

Wrong on serveral assumptions beginning with the assertion that “Earl Bennett was better than any WR McMahon ever threw to.” whih is just not true!

Dennis McKinnon was a solid, go-to receiver.

Willie Gault had world class speed and was genuine home run threat though I believe he did underachieve in Chicago and did not have the best set of hands.

Emery Morehead was decent TE, Any comparison to Kellen Davis is an insult,

Spare me the “Greg Olson Hate” routine. Olson was a quality target with the Bears and still is in Carlolina where he is 3rd among tight ends this with 67 catches for just shy of 800 yards and 5 TDs. Yes, he’s mediocre blocker but he DOES have good hands, can get deep down the seam, WILL go over the middle and has taken more than his share of big (& cheap) shots. He was virtually GIVEN away because Mike Martz wanted Apartment Buildings (Can us say MANUMALEUNA, boys & girls?) to play Tight End.

3rd down specialist, Dennis Gentry who played back AND receiver was excellent.

McKinnon, Gentry and Gault all made quality contributions as return men.

We LOVED McMahon, but “care with the football’ was NOT one of his strengths and he never had Cutler’s arm strength. The Bears had to win games with Steve Fuller as the started in several games in ’85 and it was a Fuller to Gault quick slant that Willie popped for about 80 yards and a TD against the Redskins in ’84 IN DC that helped the Bears upset the ‘Skins in a that playoff game.That and a Payton to Dunsmore halfback option TD.

I know because I was fortunate enought to see all of it.

BerwynBomber

Relax, I wasn’t hating on Olsen. Just yesterday I called someone out for saying Cutler had no one but Forte his first four years by reminding him of Olsen. Read more carefully before you fly off the handle. McKinnon and Gault better than Bennett? If so, it’s not by a ton — thought admittedly I probably hadn’t given Dennis his due. Morehead? I don’t know. Good blocker but I don’t remember him much as a receiver but my memory honestly might not be as clear as yours. (But yes, I was guilty of hyperbole there as Davis sucked ass.) Anyway, my larger point was the fact that McMahon wasn’t gifted with All-Pro weapons either, other than Payton. (Actually my real larger point is that it is risky comparing stats from two eras thirty years apart.) For the record I’m not a huge McMahon honk. Was only highlighting the fact that if you are going to say Cutler had no weapons you can’t then assume that McMahon had ton; that is, if one is comparing the two.

Still a Doug Plank Fan

Wow Albert. I can’t remember what car I was driving in 84/85, and you can pull a Total Recall on a pass from Fuller to Gault in ’84?

Shit, I gotta find a dumber bunch of guys to blog with…

tobijohn

Well, I didn’t have a car in 84/85 but a couple of years before that, I do remember leaving my POS 72 orange Pinto parked in front of an apartment in Wicker Park I was living in at the time. It might still be there…

Still a Doug Plank Fan

LMAO! The Pinto! What a car! Wasn’t that one of the ones you had to pull the engine to change the spark plugs, or was that just the Maverick?

But hey, if you happen to go look for it, see if you can spot the yellow chevy vega I forgot somewhere in the U.S.

tobijohn

I don’t know about changing the plugs. I bought it for $100 from a burnout I worked with at the time and when it quit running a year later, I just pulled the plates and left it there. I’ll keep an eye out for your Vega…

AlbertInTucson

The first car I ever owned was a ’72 Pinto Wagon.

tobijohn

The first one I ever owned was a ’67 Rambler American hand-me-down from my grandmother followed by ’70 Oldsmobile Vistacruiser station wagon from my parents followed by ’70 VW beetle followed by a 63 Triumph TR4 followed by a ’69 Chevy panel van followed by the previously mentioned ’72 Pinto. One beater after another…

AlbertInTucson

Remember, it WAS a playoff game. It was beautiful 2-step drop, quick slant from the left side and is was “Adios, muchachos! as Gault never broke stride, hit the afterburner and left the Redskins inhaling the exhaust. That was also In RFK Stadium.

tobijohn

I met Pat Dunsmore once a long time ago. He married a good friend of one of my sisters. I think their son is playing in the NFL somewhere…

Irish Sweetness

Jimmy did like throwing it to the other team. He blamed his color-blindness.

Irish Sweetness

Ah, I’m just Joshin’. I have a jones for the guy. At the rate guys get injured I don’t like the idea of investing too much cash in any one player. Having two QBs was great for us this year, defense aside. Why do teams invest so much in young QBs anyway? Why not just always have two capable vets on your team? Why be the breeding ground for a star of the future you won’t be able to afford once his contract is up? Just keep two hot pistols holstered at all times, let someone else rear the kids.

bearsfantillend

maybe this coaching staff is capable of developing a QB. if so lets take advantage of it, draft them, groom them, trade them off for a boat load of picks every 4-5 years.

BerwynBomber

That’s been my thought/temptation. We’ve got the QB whisper: then let’s give him some kid to build from scratch that we have around for the next decade or so. Then again, if Trestman thinks he has the goods in Cutler I guess we just have to trust him and Emery.

tobijohn

I believe it was Phil Simms who was asked a while back if he was still playing and actually had a choice in the matter, what coach he would like to work with. He said it was a no-brainer – Marc Trestman…

BerwynBomber

The Sweetness juke on his TD run and his TD pass to McMahon (both in the first minute of the clip) are still fucking awesome. Best all-around RB EVER!!! Run, catch, blitz pick-up (where he would destroy guys) and yes even pass. What a player Walter was.

CanadaBear

Irish, I hate to tell you this but McMahon wasn’t the QB when we beat the Chiefs 28-27 back in 1977. I was at that game. Not to mention McMahon wasn’t in the NFL yet. It was none other than Bob Avellini. Walter had about 190 yds. Best Bears game I ever saw live.

Irish Sweetness

It was 1987, I’ve seen the games a few times. Tampa Bay were ahead 20-0, we won the game 27-26. We beat KC 31-28, and I think we were down 3 or 4 TDs in that game.

I’m a morning person TJ. Up at 6ish every morning and by 11:30 I turn into a pumpkin. Tired, grumpy, even shorter patience. I don’t need a ton of sleep, but when it gets late I need however much I can get.

There it is… secret’s out. Hahahaha

CanadaBear

Merry X-mas to all my Bears Brethren. Time to take a break from the blog and get all religious. Or not! Hope everyone has a great holiday season and everyone gets a X-mas Goose!

Irish Sweetness

Oh dear. Was this on TV? The punky QB drunk on a fishing show. #doesnotgiveafuck

Still a Doug Plank Fan

I hope it wasn’t on A&E, or once they get the email from MADD, they’ll close the network.

tobijohn

I watched the clip and the topic of homosexuality never came up so even if it was on A&E, things should be ok…

Still a Doug Plank Fan

Hilarious! Glad he kept it hetero…but drinking and boating? The children! Think of the children!

…or something.

johnnywad

Josh McCown threw the ball into the belly of a Cowboys defender three times and twice with the Rams. They were five throws as bad as any I’ve seen. You can’t take away what he did and I wouldn’t. I want him to remain a Bear. But to ignore these bad decisions and simply point to the
stat line is stupid. We all saw them, and we all knew that they were INT’s.

Irish Sweetness

He’s not the future, we know that. But he can be the caretaker for a while at a reduced rate.
Bidniz

BerwynBomber

In fairness, Cutler has gotten away with a couple of pics too — just off the top of my head I remember a Saints player dropping one and D. Hall of the Skins jumping two balls that he could have come up with. But yeah, wouldn’t argue there have been a couple wince-inducing moments with McCown. Happens.

BerwynBomber

The once “deepest QB draft in recent memory” meme has taken some hits in the last month or so. Mariota is returning for his junior year at OR; likewise the Petty kid from Baylor has decided to return to school. And both Murray and Mettenberg went down with season-ending ACLs. Still, a pretty deep QB draft but not quite what it was once purported to be.

Still a Doug Plank Fan

Since everyone’s busy, I’ll confess now. I am probably the dumbest guy on the board when the conversation turns to QB’s in the draft. All I know is they usually need to be tall and come from a school (preferably) that runs an NFL-style offense already.

I’ll be depending on y’all a lot this off-season to try and get my synapses to light with something other than a wet book of matches, which is what they use now when I start looking at QB’s on draft boards.

AlbertInTucson

More I more I feel like these guys who pronounce “Deepest draft blah blah blah” are just guessing.

Interesting. Would be interesting if McCown retires just as his career is at its peak. Plus, I would think he is a young 34 or 35. He simply hasn’t taken the hits that the average ten year starter has. Heck, I thought he might even transition from a tutor-to-coach career. Ah well.

johnnywad

I would guess he takes a one year deal. Line the pockets and then go be full time dad. At least that’s what I think I would do.

tobijohn

A two/three year deal with some sort of modest guarantee might also be appealing as it would at least allow for enough stability so that he could have his family with him here. I was also thinking of the transition BB mentioned above. Emery is really high on him, I’m sure they could find/create a coaching position for him.
I seem to recall Greg Landry did the same thing. I think he might have actually started coaching and then got pulled back into playing the last few games of a season due to injuries…

Cormonster

I may be wrong, but I think his family is in the Carolinas. He probably doesn’t want to move them, but let them stay in a stable environment with their friends.

My parents almost moved me and my siblings out of our school district for a nicer home, but decided to get a house in the same district for continuity during our formative years. I am so glad they did that for us. To this day most of my really good friends are people I’ve known since 7-15 years old. Hard to put a price on that.

tobijohn

You’re right, his family is in NC. But I was thinking if he can get some assurances that he’ll be in one place for a few years in a row and then transition to a coaching gig in the same locale, his kids would have some continuity as far as school and their social life is concerned. You know his showing this year is good for at least a few mil over the next couple years. That and his NFL pension and he’s home free for the rest of his life with his kids’ college education covered too. Of course, the winters in NC beat the Chicago ones with a rather large stick….

tobijohn

Also, someone somewhere here commented that he might be 34 but he doesn’t have many miles on him so that’s in his favor as well…

AlbertInTucson

Wasn’t Landry OC for the Bears oonce upon a time?

tobijohn

Yup, 88-92

NewBearInTown

If he wants to be with his kids, he’s not coaching a professional football team.

If I had to guess, I suspect he’s the kind of guy that didn’t spend much of his NFL money. Probably he’s got a house that’s paid for in a neighborhood that he likes. Probably the church that he and his wife go to has been fixed up nicely thanks to some McCown donations. Probably he’s positioned himself to be able to live off of the salary that the local high school was going to pay him to be the coach. Probably he’s already got some money put away for the college funds. An extra $500K always helps, but he might not need it badly enough right now to be without his kids.

Speaking as someone that works long hours, I totally get it. I’m sure there are a lot of guys on the blog that agree with me, give me five years as a backup NFL QB, I will never complain about money for the rest of my life.

BerwynBomber

Then Josh McCown is not the man and leader I thought he was. Kidding. 😉 Yeah, good points. Makes sense. And the NFL and collegiate coaching thing can lead to a nomadic life.

MB30SD

What a great guy. Good for him.

Still a Doug Plank Fan

Yeah man. +1.

Cormonster

I think this is an interesting story that sort of correlates with McCown thinking.

I had a guy (about 35) apply for a landscaping position this spring. It was obvious at the start of the interview that this guy was highly intelligent with a great personality. He had a couple college degrees, like biochemistry and microbiology. He had recently quit a six figure job because he was unhappy and the stress was affecting his relationship with his fiance (now wife). He busted his ass all season for $15 bucks an hour and was happy (he did this work in college). And he did fantastic work. He’s not a materialistic guy, so he had saved a ton of money. He rode his bike or motorcycle to work every day. He also made his own energy supplements to increase his productivity when he became fatigued on long days.

He got married this fall, and his plan was to travel with his wife in his motor home for a year. He said he has at least three years worth of money saved up to travel, but is considering working for me 6 months of the year to expand this experience. I sure hope he comes back next year. He’s got great ethics which has allowed us to become friends outside of work.

AlbertInTucson

“Ethics”?! What is he, some sort of a freak?

Cormonster

Get this, Al. The dude also took a lot of philosophy classes. His favorite philosopher? Ayn Rand. I didn’t bring up any philosophers when asking him who was his favorite. I did give him a high five based on his answer. He’s a big fan of her critique of art in The Romantic Manifesto and ethics in The Virtue of Selfishness.

Most of Ayn Rand’s critics from the left and right never read her books. Their big mistake is actually believing how a dimwitted journalist interprets her philosophy based on novels. Her novels are written in the “Romantic” style. They are no different than lots of science fiction.
I better stop here, or I’ll end up writing a novella.

gpldan

I got the Rich Cohen book for Xmas, and everyone is healthy and happy.

Have a great day, filled with cheer and in MBHP’s case, hottie beejays. This Sunday will probably define how we remember 2013 years from now, so break out the Bailey’s Irish Cream and remember all the days we’ve gotten to watch football games on tv rather than fighting and dying in wars and remember all the people who have so we can.

BearFanInDE

Thanks Jeff, gpl and the rest of you oddballs out here! You make Football season so much more fun!

Enjoy the book and some downtime w family! Agree that this week will define a lot of things!

Cheers you rascals!! Bear down!!!!!!

Still a Doug Plank Fan

My daughter bought me the Cohen book for Christmas too. Enjoy, man. It’s a great book. It does bog down a little when he starts looking into some of the history (I’ve read more well-written accounts, is all) but his nod to giving my nic-sake (that’s MISTER Doug Plank to you – heh) got him a five star rating from me.

Neither here nor there, but I interviewed Fencik, Plank, and Buddy Ryan a jillion years ago (while Ryan was coaching the Oilers) via phone, and I have a story from that I’ve been holding on to. Never wrote that particular facet of the story up, so it’ll be a Da Bears Blog Exclusive…if one can call it that since I’ve held it close to the vest for over 20 friggin’ years…

tobijohn

Looking forward to it. Checked out his Wikipedia listing and as far as coaching is concerned, he seems to do extremely well wherever he goes…

Still a Doug Plank Fan

He’s a very articulate guy for someone who used his head as an Exocet Missile back when that was encouraged.

AlbertInTucson

Plank was the Cardinals radio color man a few years bank in Phoenix.

tobijohn

Speaking of the 85 Bears, I found the following “Where are they now’ article. It’s few years old but still an interesting read:

Home alone today, so I’m gonna go walk the dogs and get their feedback on whether the Packers will play Rodgers on Sunday, and what kind of game they think Cutler will have. I’ll let you know what they think.

Meanwhile, hope y’all are having a great Christmas day, and that yer stockings were filled with Navy & Orange.

BerwynBomber

Don’t forget to inform us what the dog’s think. Tea leaves seem to be reading Flynn but some canine prognostication wouldn’t hurt.

Trac

Merry Christmas guys. I’ve enjoyed the blog this season and hopefully we’ll get to chat about our boys in the playoffs.

AlbertInTucson

Throught the season,with all the injuries on defense and to Cutler it is a COMPLETE mystery to as to how Wright and Conte, two of the healthiest bodies on defense have continued to perform a such a shockingly substandard level.

tobijohn

I can see where they might not get any better but I don’t understand how they can get worse. It’s not a complicated defensive. I wonder if they’ve both just lost their confidence…

AlbertInTucson

Yes. Gotten WORSE. BOTH of them. Who’d have thought that even POSSIBLE. How bad must Steltz & Walters be?

EnderWiggin

And THAT is what mind-boggles me the most. We got our best safety play this year from the Steltz Bomber… And what does he get in return? Ass splinters.

bearsfantillend

don’t everyone kill me because i am going to defend Wright and Conte a little.

Did everyone realize that Conte and Wright among the team leaders in tackles? They each have about 20 more tackles this year than last with still a game to go and 30 tackles more than 2 years ago. If they would have made 1/2 the plays we all thought they should have they would be over 100 tackles for the year. What does this mean? It means our DL and LBs are not doing their jobs!!!! There is no reason safeties should be leading the team in tackles.They are supposed to be the LAST LINE of defense. They should not be required to be making 8-10 game saving tackles every game. They should be getting maybe 3-4 game saving tackles a game, maybe 1-2 tackles on running backs that broke through and 1-2 tackles on WR that get over the top. But NO, they are tackling or trying to tackle RBs constantly. They are serviceable if the DL and LB’s do their jobs. They have not been great in years past but they are serviceable. Fix the problems up front and their flaws are less noticeable. Get a better pass rush and stop the run with the front 7 and we would not have been complaining so much about bad angles or poor tackles from the Safeties. Great Safeties would look bad at times doing what Conte and Wright have been tasked to do, Conte and Wright are not great Safeties but they can be serviceable.

BerwynBomber

BFTE, I semi-agree. Or I should say while everyone pounds on the safeties the LB play has been absolutely non-existent since Briggs went down, and Briggs himself needs a week or two to get back in playing shape.

AlbertInTucson

Not necessesarily agreeing but, point taken. Still, given the situation, that “play’ Conte made on the Josh Gordon TD was horrific.

MB30SD

They should be serviceable on a team like the browns… not the Chicago Bears. Makes me sad what lovie got us used to expecting from our safeties. Ssmh

Irish Sweetness

The linebacker play was poor, this we know. D-line play was poor. Yes that all feeds into what the safeties have to do, but they are not good. Why should we ever settle for serviceable? Our linebackers will be better next year, but our line and DBs will not. We need serious help on D, and it’s available if Emery does what he needs to do.

BerwynBomber

Actually the Cutler injury has been this season’s least damaging given the yeoman’s work of McCown. And Bowman’s done a half-decent job spelling Peanut. (Losing Briggs was the killer.) But yeah our safeties reek. Thing is, as much as Conte is the well-deserving whipping boy on this board, the dude occasionally makes a TD-saving tackle on one of the many gashed runs we gift the opposition. Seems I rarely see Wright make those tackles and he’s our SS, though maybe I just remember Conte’s more because he’s so poor and the last line of D.

MB30SD

BB, the SS covers the strong side of the O (Where the TE lines up). His main responsibility is run support and cover either the TE (in man) and his short side of the field in zone. The FS… what conte is supposed to be, is the last man standing and is tasked with not letting ANYTHING get behind him, pass or run break

His fucking one job is to be the last safety valve on the field, hence the man furthest back.

see all those times conte is like 30 yards back and comes in with basically a free shot and a direct path? He takes turrible angles much of the time, gets run over a lot, and barely makes tackles even though he should have a bline shot at the runner.

Now, we’re talking about shady mcCoy here, but it’s like that every week… even with 3rd string guys and dudes off the street. He sucks.

BerwynBomber

Yeah, I know their respective roles, MB, and I wouldn’t argue that Conte blows major chow. I was only saying that, traditionally, the SS is the stronger run support/tackler and it just seems I never see Wright stop a big run, though upon looking at their stats he does have more TTs than Conte so maybe, as I said, I’m surprised when Conte does anything competently — hence, why I remember his and not Wright’s.

MB30SD

Ah. Yes, wright is also a turrible football player.

AlbertInTucson

That Josh Gordon TD in Cleveland was beyond brutal.

gpldan

Losing Melton and Nate Collins killed us inside.

Also, Paea is back to being Zorich-esque. He’s 300 – maybe – on the scale, but his frame isn’t built to stand the punishment inside and he’s breaking down. So we really lack any serviceable tackles outside of Jay Ratliff and Landon Cohen.

That combined with Bostic being a Will LB that should be getting groomed to take over Briggs role and not a Mike and I am realizing I screwed up bigtime when I said on the blog that we should steer clear of Vontaze Burfict. If we had him in the middle, we’d be in much better shape.

waffle

losing Melton and Collins and DJ and Briggs was the death knell of the defense. It was compounded by the shitty play of Peppers and the super shitty play of McClellin.
Losing Pnut was a gut punch as well.
All this shit started with us losing our D line depth before and during camp when Ellis fucking retired and McBride tore his achilles.

gpldan

“Obviously I want to be out there. I know what’s at stake. This is an important week for us. We’re somehow back in this position to be able to get into the playoffs. What a better way to do that than against the Chicago Bears?” -Rodgers

What the fuck does that mean, Aaron? Does it mean you are used to whipping up on the Bears, so no better team to beat than the Bears to back into the playoffs? You are used to teabagging helpless Chicago year after year after a triple kill 0wn4g3?

Oh Chicken Dinner, help us one more time. Your run D is hapless and you can’t register any sacks, but redeem yourself in the eyes of George in heaven and break that numbnuts collarbone again, and you shall have eternal peace in the Big Coop in the Sky when you pass.

BerwynBomber

McClellin with the biggest single play in the NFC this year. Still cracks me up. What up for 2014? Chris Conte saves our season with a red-zone INT in crunch time?

Sounds like Rodgers is going to play. Good. That’s the way this should go down.

AlbertInTucson

I agree. Always thought so.

BearFanInDE

Rodgers to start!!!!!!!!!!!

Stosh

I like Mark Trestman as a
head coach… a lot. He can do two things virtually no Bears Head Coach before
him did or was capable of doing. The first is to develop and run a real
NFL-level offense. Certainly, Phil Emery brought in key parts of the puzzle
where it counted most – the offensive line. Long and Mills (Long for sure) are
future Pro Bowlers. Bringing in Bushrod and Slauson essentially ended the scary
and steady stream of blind-side hits and sacks which defined the offense for
several years. Secondly, he can actually develop quarterback talent, and I’m not
talking about Cutler but Josh McCown. My own sense is that Cutler, while
possessing a strong and usually (but not consistently) accurate arm, and despite
what he says after games about playing better, just doesn’t play the game at a
level equal to his physical skills, and so his physical skills become much less
important. No, I’m talking about Josh McCown who, unlike Jay Cutler, is very
coachable and very disciplined, so much so that he actually plays the game
better than Jay Cutler. He makes very few mental mistakes, and so he rarely
hurts the team with his play…but he has consistently helped the team with his
play. So, yeah, I like Mark Trestman for the reasons Phil Emery brought him to
Chicago…but there’s a fly I the ointment.

The very same cerebral
approach Trestman takes to offense seems, to this observer, to be holding the
Bears back, on the emotional front. So much of the distance between winning and
losing is taken up by the emotional side of the game. I’m talking about things
like attitude, drive, identity, confidence, and what is often called ‘fire in
the belly.’ The team looks to me to be too cerebral but not emotional enough.
What we hear from Trestman, and what we heard from Lovie Smith, is that the
players are professional football players who are capable of motivating
themselves – of being their own emotional engine – and that the head coach’s motivational
role is minor to irrelevant. I just don’t buy that line of thinking.

In non-football work contexts,
an organization, to varying levels but for sure to SOME level, takes on the personality
of the person or persons leading it. The leader(s) establish expectations and behavioral
norms which send messages, some clear and some suggestive, about how people are
supposed to behave, to think, to value, to feel, and what they re supposed to
believe about organizational life. These leaders do it in what they say but their
most powerful messages come through what they do, through actions other can
see. Trestman’s behavior, at least from what we see, is heavy on the analytical
and light on the emotional. His and the team’s response to the Eagle beat-down was
cerebral, analytical, unemotional. He immediately encouraged the team to forget
the drubbing they received, and to start thinking about the Packers, and
post-game comments from the players suggest they bought into that. The problem
I have with that is that it suggests a kind of denial…an absence of reflection,
understanding and mourning over what actually happened, and why, that allow one
to move on with a sense of urgency…urgency around the belief that the next game
is an opportunity for redemption. In the case of a football game, if you don’t
go through that kind of process, you run the risk of not knowing, not learning
from, and even not caring all that much about the mistakes that led to your
demise.

Trestman and the players
talked about throwing the game film in the trash can. Bad idea. Yes, there is a
risk in seeing just how badly you played because it can erode confidence…..but there’s
ample evidence to suggest these Bears are fully capable of playing good enough
to beat good teams, including the Eagles. My sense is that what the film
would’ve revealed is how the players allowed themselves to get steam-rolled
without really punching back. It would’ve revealed the lack of emotion in their
response to getting punched in the mouth…and that is what Mark Trestman needs
to build back into his coaching approach. He needs to remind his players that
there are expectations around the level of emotion players need to bring to
their play because, without it, they’re going to get beat down again. He needs
to teach them or cajole them or otherwise lead them into the realization that
they have an obligation to themselves and each other to fight back…hard…when
another team comes in with the intent of breaking their backs. They need to use
the emotion generated from poor, unemotional play – anger, frustration,
embarrassment – and convert it into the kind of energy needed to break the back
of the next team they play. And, their head coach needs to model that thinking,
not roll out the security blanket of denial while serving up cookies and milk
in the form of reassuring but denial-filled commentary about how they need to
put the game behind them and essentially throw the lessons it contains in the
trash.

In many cases, emotion can
overcome poor play by energizing players, giving them a physical edge in what
is a fundamentally physical game, and, when channeled properly, focus players’
minds on playing hard, not repeating mistakes, and winning.

gpldan

Jordan Mills is never making the Pro Bowl. He’s a decent RT, and thank the stars for that after we had to shed Sour Carimi.

Trestman won a bunch of Grey Cups up in Canada, so he knows when to push. I’d like to see if he loses the cool in the locker room, I suspect not – I suspect he gets Kromer to do it for him on O and leaves the D pretty much alone.

I would like to see him conjour up some fiame because whatever he may have done in Canada, his Bears team are coming out of the gate flat. Very flat. We need an emotional opening drive Sunday.

Stosh

Hope you’re right about Trestman…but I dunno…there’s no substitute for the HC being able to motivate. The only coordinator I know of who was really good as the lead cheerleader was Buddy Ryan…but he just worked with the D. And, Canadian football culture is just ‘different’ than NFL culture. Trestman is smart but his demeanor is eerily Lovie-like, and the players’ comments post Eagles game were disturbing to me. No anger, no emotion, no sense that they were going to use getting their heads handed to them as motivation heading into the GB game.