The dog can bite anywhere in Ring, but it's the trial decoy's job to make the dog miss. Upper body bites are easier to avoid from the decoys POV, so most Ring dogs are taught to bite legs.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

There are downfalls to a dog that bites stricly legs and like Demo mentioned there are obviously downfall so a dog that is simply a high biter. A good dog should be able to bite arms or legs IMO but you will find that usually the dog has a foundation in one area or the other and that's primarily what they will take.

pocketpit wrote:There are downfalls to a dog that bites stricly legs and like Demo mentioned there are obviously downfall so a dog that is simply a high biter. A good dog should be able to bite arms or legs IMO but you will find that usually the dog has a foundation in one area or the other and that's primarily what they will take.

Absolutely, 100%, dead nuts correct.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

DemoDick wrote:The dog can bite anywhere in Ring, but it's the trial decoy's job to make the dog miss. Upper body bites are easier to avoid from the decoys POV, so most Ring dogs are taught to bite legs.

Demo Dick

I actually wanted to point out that this only occurs in French Ring. Mondio is also an international sport (and people may refer to it as ring), but esquiving is NOT allowed under ANY circumstances by a trial decoy (in fact, I believe that you can lose your "decoy" status if you esquive in a Mondio trial).

I have seen FR dogs mainly trained to take a leg, although those more rounded will bite the upper body, as well.

One problem you see also with FR dogs that primarily go for the upper body target is that because of the esquive, these dogs actually tend to gravitate more towards the center...so rather than targeting the bicep, you see them targeting the chest...that is another reason my many trainers choose to train the dogs to bite the legs.

For those that are scratching their heads, esquive is french for dodge. As in get out of the way, not the automobile.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

The object of the esquive is to slow the dog down. The decoy moves around so that the dog misses the first bite or doesn't get a good bite, which fueled by the dog running at the decoy, packs more more punch to it. Once the dog misses the first bite, it has to bite the decoy without that built up force behind it.

Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields

Like sis said, the Esquive is really just the FR decoy's way of knocking points off a dog's score. That is what FR is all about. The decoys try their absolute damndest to screw the dog up in any fashion possible.

How often are heavier breeds used in FR? It seems that lighter dogs (mals, dutch sheps, etc) would do better than a heavier dog...as it seems that they do a lot of gathering themselves quickly to go for the bite again.

I want to train Score to do bitework, and only go for the crotch...those crotch shots look like fun!

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw

TheRedQueen wrote:How often are heavier breeds used in FR? It seems that lighter dogs (mals, dutch sheps, etc) would do better than a heavier dog...as it seems that they do a lot of gathering themselves quickly to go for the bite again.

I want to train Score to do bitework, and only go for the crotch...those crotch shots look like fun!

Then put a squeeker in the decoy's pocket.

Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields

TheRedQueen wrote:How often are heavier breeds used in FR? It seems that lighter dogs (mals, dutch sheps, etc) would do better than a heavier dog...as it seems that they do a lot of gathering themselves quickly to go for the bite again.

I want to train Score to do bitework, and only go for the crotch...those crotch shots look like fun!

Then put a squeeker in the decoy's pocket.

He likes basketballs the best...ya think the decoy would mind shoving a basketball down his pants for me?

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw

TheRedQueen wrote:How often are heavier breeds used in FR? It seems that lighter dogs (mals, dutch sheps, etc) would do better than a heavier dog...as it seems that they do a lot of gathering themselves quickly to go for the bite again.

I want to train Score to do bitework, and only go for the crotch...those crotch shots look like fun!

i would definitely say you see more of the smaller-framed dogs in both FR and MR...I don't mean to generalize, but that's my observation...

And some dogs that are trained in the legs automatically go for the crotch...I'll some pics of Arrow (competes in PSA), but he's a very extreme dog, and he always gets crotch shots...the look on the decoys faces is sometimes (often) priceless!

Actually, I have some other pics on my other computer, but that computer is in the other room...I'll get those later...

But this is Arrow at PSA Nationals this past October. Like I said, Arrow is a very nice dog...a ton of drive, he's out of Ares, who is known for being an extreme dog...he's a leg dog (only), but he just walked away from Nationals taking 1st place in the Level 1's, high scoring for the season, high score for the trial...VERY nice dog!

Sometimes Arrow goes perfectly into the higher part of the leg and stays there...but I also see him do the crotch bites...

Michelle, was Riggs taught to bite the upper or lower leg?

I'm only asking b/c I thought I heard Greg talking about leg dogs and if they're taught to bite the upper leg, then they tend to gravitate towards center (which would be crotch area)...but I know that Cy was taught lower leg (his preferred target is the bicep, but if you take away his target, he comfortably takes the leg)...and he's never bit the crotch

I'm only asking b/c I thought I heard Greg talking about leg dogs and if they're taught to bite the upper leg, then they tend to gravitate towards center (which would be crotch area)...but I know that Cy was taught lower leg (his preferred target is the bicep, but if you take away his target, he comfortably takes the leg)...and he's never bit the crotch.

Riggs was taught to bite either above or below the knee, but he prefers to bite above and the centering thing, in his case, has a lot to do with fight drive.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

Question from the idiot. What would you guys say is the best way to train a dog to bite in more than one spot to get a better bite on an evasive decoy? Would you work the dog randomly for the bite or would you teach it to target on several spots at different points in training? Dont know if what I am saying makes any sense but I think you guys can get the gist of what I am asking.

Not only am I a member of the Michelle says my dog is fat club I'm the president!I can Alpha Roll hair!

Tina Martin wrote:Question from the idiot. What would you guys say is the best way to train a dog to bite in more than one spot to get a better bite on an evasive decoy? Would you work the dog randomly for the bite or would you teach it to target on several spots at different points in training? Dont know if what I am saying makes any sense but I think you guys can get the gist of what I am asking.

Train the dog to target the traditional areas (arms & legs) first, then teach him that he can bite the chest and back. The goal should be to teach him that he can bite anywhere, depending on the situation.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge