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Author
Topic: just worried (Read 13827 times)

I'm a french married guy, 35 years old and I am french. It seems that it is difficult here to obtain valuable information about aids.Recently, I've experienced a sort of sexual frenzy, wich resulted in the following :

- went 4 times in a sauna, experienced mutual masturbation and deep kisses and blow-jobs with men. I was not very sure about the condoms but all the blow-jobs, insertive & receptive, were protected.- had 1 intercourse with a guy : basically, same as above, except I had an anulingus performed on me, without protection (not very long). No anal penetration.- had 2 intercourses with women : both with penetration (protected, no condom problems) and both with unprotected insertive blow-jobs. Now that the fun is over, I find myself wondering. Did I put myself at risk ? Do I need a test ? Here in France, I phoned a kind of hot-line. Some people tell me there were no risks and no need to be tested, other said insertive blow-job could be a risk under certain conditions - bleeding gums, high viral charge - and I fel confused & worried afterwards. Could you please help me cause I'm having a lot of stress right now, and the last thing I want is to put my wife in danger... Do I need to test ?Thanks for your time, and pardon my bad english.Fabien.

Getting a blowjob, with or without a condom, is not a risk for hiv infection. Giving a blowjob is only a theoretical risk. Unless you have absolutely terrible oral health, you weren't at risk in the least. Oral sex is considered no risk.

Annilingus is also not a risk for hiv infection, whether you were the person doing the licking or you were licked. No risk.

You did the right thing during intercourse and used condoms. Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

Read through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence. Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Bottom line - nothing you did or had done to you was a risk for hiv infection.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Getting a blowjob, with or without a condom, is not a risk for hiv infection. Giving a blowjob is only a theoretical risk. Unless you have absolutely terrible oral health, you weren't at risk in the least. Oral sex is considered no risk.

Thanks very much Ann, The thing that makes me wondering is that not everybody agrees about this "no risk" situation. One of the links http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/C858FF44-5E81-4F59-8030-B5A3C7A93654.asp that appears in your profile seems to say that we cant be sure.So what makes you so sure ? Is this something you think is firmly established now ? Something that doctors have told you ? For example, are you performing unprotected oral sex yourself ? Sorry to be so annoying.Are you saying it's not necessary for me to get a hiv test, period ? No risk of contaming my wife ?Thanks again for your time and efforts,Fabien

Thanks very much Ann, The thing that makes me wondering is that not everybody agrees about this "no risk" situation. One of the links http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/C858FF44-5E81-4F59-8030-B5A3C7A93654.asp that appears in your profile seems to say that we cant be sure.So what makes you so sure ? Is this something you think is firmly established now ? Something that doctors have told you ? For example, are you performing unprotected oral sex yourself ? Sorry to be so annoying.Are you saying it's not necessary for me to get a hiv test, period ? No risk of contaming my wife ?Thanks again for your time and efforts,Fabien

Fabien, in the entire history of the epidemic there has never been a confirmed case of transmission to a guy through his getting a blowjob. It's safe to say you won't make history by becoming the first. As for giving oral, longterm studies of sero-discordant couples who shared lots of mutual oral and only protected vaginal/anal intercourse resulted in not a single sero-negative partner becoming infected. So the risk for giving oral is essentially theoretical rather than actual.

Straying partners often experience anxiety about infecting their spouses or partners. It's about guilt and not real risk. You did what you did. You don't have HIV. Get on with your life. If you continue to shop the net you are just going to feed your fears to no good purpose.

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result orno-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

If all the blowjobs you gave were protected, then why are you wasting your time and ours? Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection. Even if you hadn't used condoms for blowjobs, you still wouldn't need to worry about hiv.

That means NO, you don't need to test over anything specific you did. However, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs. Using condoms does not absolve you of your responsibility to look after your sexual health.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thanks Rod, Ann et Andy, for your patience and reassuring words.However, I did get tested this morning, for I can't seem to cope with the anxiety generated by this situation.I'm always thinking about these sauna trips, wondering if there could be something I did not notice, like a condom leak, or bleeding gums, sperm on me, etc. By the time I was getting there, it seemed to me I was doing all the right things, and I felt no anxiety. Now I'm not so sure, everything is blurry and uncertain.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I hope so.One last thing : the sauna I visited was not very clean, to say the least. I mean, there were a lot of men making love or going down to one another in dark corners and alleys. At that time, my feet health was not very good, they were irritated, losing their skin, etc. There was a sense of promsicuity which, retrospectively, is pretty scarry.I've tried to find informations about the vih lifespan on the outside but the informations are contradictory at best. Could it be possible to get contaminated this way - by walking on fresh semen with feet in bad shape, with sores, etc ? Pardon my bad english and the possible naivety of my question.

NO, it is NOT possible to become infected with hiv by "by walking on fresh semen with feet in bad shape, with sores, etc". No way, no how. Hiv is NOT transmitted through touching hiv on environmental surfaces, not even if you have cuts or sores or whatever.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

My tests came back on friday : Architect HIV 1/2 ComboAxSYM HIV1/2 comboBoth were negative, 7weeks 1/2 after my last so-called risk in the sauna.I wanted to thank you, Ann, and you, Andy, and you, Teak, for you comforting words and support.

I tested negative a few months ago, after what was considered as an "almost no risk" to "no risk at all" situation.A few days ago, I had a girl performing unprotected oral sex to me. As I realized what we were doing, I asked her to stop. The whole thing lasted for less than 20 seconds I think.But here in France, oral sex, even when someone is performing it to you, is not considered a totally no-risk situation.Si I'm still concerned.The girl tested negative a few days after that intercourse, saying she had no unprotected sex with anyone except for oral sex (with no swallowing). Now she gets annoyed every time I talk to her about that. In a french hib hotline, they told me that having a test could be a good thing, especially since I'm married. But seriously, a 15 seconds blow job !? I don't know who to believe anymore.

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

You tested negative over a NO RISK situation last summer, and if you test over this blowjob you'll simply collect another negative over another NO RISK situation.

Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection. Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Not one person has ever been infected through getting a blowjob and you won't be the first.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thanks Ann and sorry about this multiple thread mistake. I still don't know why some doctors in France consider received oral sex as a (albeit very low) risk but I suppose you don't know it neither and I guess that's part of the reason why I'm so easily freaked out

One last thing. I'm married, as you know it, and I made love to my wife after the blow-job incident. I try to cope with this guilty feeling. The woman who performed oral sex on me (very briefly) doesn't want to talk to me anymore. She says she was tested negative a few days after our intercourse, and that the only risks she took before that were giving unprotected oral sex to some men (but without swallowing semen).How do you explain the fact that a french guy from a governemental anti-aids association told me to get tested after I told him i was married ? Is there any difference between hiv in France and in the US ? I just can't figure this out and my anxiety level is very high once again.

No, there is no difference between HIV in France and here in the US. Whoever advised you to get tested for HIV because of receiving oral just don't know what he is talking about. In the entire history of the epidemic there has never been a confirmed case of a guy having become infected through receiving oral. You aren't going to make history by becoming the first.

Other STDs are easier to acquire so if you find you are having sex outside of your marriage it would be a good idea at least annually to have a full STD panel done just as a precaution.

Thanks Andy. A few days ago I engaged in multiple sexual activities in a sauna, i.e. mutual masturbation and deep kissing.I'm not worried about the kisses. But since I was in a rather dark place it was not easy to see much of what was happening, so now I hope that there wasn't residual secretions on my partners' hands when the masturbated me.Do I need to test over this situation ? Thanks.

Your partner's hands could have been dripping with various bodily fluids and masturbation still wouldn't be a risk for HIV transmission.

What you do need to be aware is that other STDs are much easier to acquire than HIV. So if you are having sex play outside of your marriage, you ought to regularly have a full STD panel done. That means at least once a year and more often if you find yourself having symptoms.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thanks guys,You're doing a great job ; I trust you. I will try to put these fears behind me and not to search the web. I will also try to stop these sexual little games outside my marriage because apparently, I don't seem to be able to cope with the anxiety they generate, even if they are not risky and/or protected. I suppose I feel guilty. Il will test for STD. Before leaving you with more serious matters, I wanted to make sure that, as long as HIV is concerned, I do not need testing and I can make love to my wife without protection, assuming I was just given oral without protection and performed mutual masturbation in a sauna, whatever the circumstances.Thanks again and pardon my poor english.Fab.

I just tested today, and I'll get my results tomorrow. The mutual masturbation incident doesn't worry me, as I know there's never been a single case of transmission that way in the world.The blow-job thing (aka insertive fellatio, albeit very short, i.e. a 15 seconds ?) is scaring the s... out of me, however. You have to understand the situation. Here in France, we have this government agency called Sida Info Service which provides a phone line and a forum. It's supposed to be very serious, people get paid for their job, etc. On the forum, they say the same thing as you (= no risk, or theorical risk if large amount of blood in the mouth). In the phone line, well... it depends of who you're talking to. Some people say the risk exists, even if it's very low, and that getting tested can be a good idea. This is very disturbing. I like you a lot, I read Ann's blog and an Andy's interview, you both seem very serious and engaged and competent people (and RapidRod too) and I WANT to believe you but I can't seem to be able to take that thing out of my mind : the insertive oral sex's low risk. How can things be different here and in France ? What do you think is the problem ? Do you know something that they don't ? Have you ever seen or heard of a valid transmission case involving insertive oral sex ? Because some of the people here say they do, even if they remain pretty evasive.Anyway, I'll get my results tomorrow, fingers crossed, and I hope you people perfectly know what you're talking about.Thanks anyway for all the help and support.Fab.

Many people, even in the health care profession, allow their own personal feelings about hiv to interfere with what they know about the hard science about hiv transmission. It does not matter where in the world you live, hiv transmission works exactly the same.

Nothing you have ever brought to us has been a risk for hiv infection. It's high time you got to grips with the fact that only unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse are proven risks.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Hi everyone,A quick update on my situation. I tested negative a few months ago about what seemed to be a non-risk situation.Since then, i've indulged myself in a few intercourses with strangers : with men, protected intercourses, even for the blow-job part, both receptive and insertive, but with passionate and very long kisses, which afterwards scared the hell out of me, because I thought i felt some blood on my mouth one time.Also, there have been some mutual masturbation, and one evening, my penis was all red and painfull and when i made love to my wife (without condom), it was even more painfull. The whole thing disappeared after a few days without any treatment but it got me puzzled.Yesterday, a girl performed an unprotected blow-job for a brief moment after i told her to stop, out of fear something wrong might happen.Is there something risky about all this ? Do i need to test ?Thanks for the advice.This violent kisses + violent masturbation episode got me worried big time these days.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I understand what you say, and i began to work on myself. For example, there was this guy who tried to do me a blow-job, and I wasn't looking, and I pulled his head back when i said : "hey, what do you think you're doing ?", and I don't even know if he sucked me or not (if he did, however, It was not for more than 2 seconds), but I managed to think, when I got out of the sauna, "well, whatever". The only question that remains is this one : i was in a jacuzzi with this guy, he grabed me, made me lay on him, and me sex was stiff, and i thought i felt something : my sex had definitely touched something. Was it this anus guy ? As i have never penetrated a guy, i don't know what it feels like, but i think i might have felt it, no ? Is a sexe/anus contact enough to be of any concern with regards to hiv ? Here in a verr serious french forum, there is guy claiming he has been contaminated with a semi-penetration, so I wondered it the other way around could be considered as a risk.There is no need to give me a time out. I won't come back. And I won't go back to a sauna I think because everytime i go there i'm like "lets do nothing dangerous" and, sure, i gave a protected blow job to a guy, and I'm ok with that, but i have this problem with this guy - is a anus-sexe contact dangerous when there is no real penetration ?Do i need to test before i sleep with my wife again ? This will be my last question, but you have to understand i don't go here to complain about the same thing again and again - i just now that the anus is a very sensitive area, and a very high hiv transmission potential so i'm wondering : could something bad have happened that i would not have really felt ?Thanks for your words and your presence, you, Andy and Matty and Rod. You all seem very down-to-earth people.And excuse my poor french, i hope you understood what i was trying to say.

 Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Even if you touched his anus with your penis it wasn't a risk. For the last time, yes, you can have sex with your wife unprotected.

You need to start applying the information that has been given to you and not running here everytime you have another anxiety-provoking experience. If you show up here again with more of this kind of unnecessary angst and wanting attention, I am promising you a Time Out. Really.

Cut it out and get on with your life. If you're going to go cuckoo everytime you fool around with another guy then maybe you need to rethink what you're doing and cut it out.

You're right Andy. I'm sorry.I can't seem to cope with the anxiety generated by my behavior. So i may as well stop.That guy i was talking about fingered me, also. I know this is a no-risk situation, unless the guy's finger was bleeding, which is unlikely even i didn't ask to see it, but low risk + low risk + low risk (or very low risk) = real risk in my mind.One last thing : would you, after all this, consider testing a good thing for my peace of mind, or just a waste of time and money, and just way to fuel the fear and anxiety ?

You're right Andy. I'm sorry.I can't seem to cope with the anxiety generated by my behavior. So i may as well stop.That guy i was talking about fingered me, also. I know this is a no-risk situation, unless the guy's finger was bleeding, which is unlikely even i didn't ask to see it, but low risk + low risk + low risk (or very low risk) = real risk in my mind.One last thing : would you, after all this, consider testing a good thing for my peace of mind, or just a waste of time and money, and just way to fuel the fear and anxiety ?

If you want real peace of mind, why don't you speak to your doctor about your anxiety rather than getting HIV tests you don't need?

because of this low risk + low risk + low risk = real risk equationi can't seem to accept the fact that there was absolutely no risk, given the amount of "if" involved. so i'm talking about the medical necessity to make a test, because i'm afraid to contaminate my wife, despite all the precautions i took.talk about guilt... could this be just that ?

because of this low risk + low risk + low risk = real risk equationi can't seem to accept the fact that there was absolutely no risk, given the amount of "if" involved. so i'm talking about the medical necessity to make a test, because i'm afraid to contaminate my wife, despite all the precautions i took.talk about guilt... could this be just that ?

Look mate, I don't know what your issue is. We're here to answer questions about HIV testing and transmission, nothing more and we've done that for you.

If you're having mental health problems, you should seek face to face advice from an appropriately qualified professional. We cannot provide you with that sort of support.

If you need some encouragement to seek that support I'm sure one of our Moderators can oblige you with a time out.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Your issues about anxiety and guilt with regard to straying and having sex with men are not something we can appropriately address in this setting. As has been suggested previously, for that you need to get some professional help. Life is too short to spend living with so much anxiety so do yourself a favor and get some help.

As long as you consistently use condoms for anal and vaginal intercourse outside of your primary relationship you will be well protected against the sexual transmission of HIV. It's just that simple.

Meanwhile I am going to give you that Time Out for 28 days which you have been repeatedly warned about. Don't make the mistake of trying to get around it by creating a new name. We'll spot that right off and it will get you permanently banned from the site.

Get yourself some professional help. The sooner the better. Good luck with sorting things out.

Hi there,Not sure i'm supposed to open a new topic.A question and a concern : i'm now having and giving protected blow-jobs. But last time, as i was receiving one, it seems that i took the condom away a little too early (as soon as i got my penis out of my partner's mouth). The guy came also shortly after, and it seems that some semen went on my unprotected dick. I rushed to the bathroom, of course. Is that a risk ? Should i test ?

You need to listen carefully to this: the ONLY confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse.

Receiving a blowjob is absolutely no risk whatsoever including without a condom. Having a guy's sperm drrop on to your penis or any part of your body is also definitely not a risk either.

Maybe you need to stop having sex outside of your relationship until you get your act together about how you feel about having sex and HIV. Which means getting some professional help to sort things out. That's something we can't help you with in this setting. We are not here to serve you everytime you have another burst of anxiety after having some outside sex.

There's no need for testing nor for further concern on your part about this latest incident.

Sperm falling on to your glans is quite different from your penis being inside a vagina or an anus in terms of possible exposure to HIV. HIV is a fragile virus. It needs the kind of receptive setting like the anus or the vagina in order to remain viable.

Once it is exposed to the air it is very quickly rendered non-viable. And then there are the mechanics of it getting (while viable) into your pee hole, something quite different from simply falling on to your glans.

I suggest you re-read the many responses you have received here over the past year or more. They tell you very clearly what the only risks are for sexual transmission of HIV.

You need to get into the habit of applying that information to your ongoing experiences rather than running here everytime you have some kind of sex and starting at square one each time as if there has never been any previous conversation.