I know you’ve probably got a lot of other stuff to do today, but, if you have a moment, and feel like writing to Warner Brothers Records CEO Cameron Strang to ask about the dick in your mouth, here’s how:

Speaking of Kid Rock, it’s not something that we’ve discussed before, but my guess, given how unpopular Trump is among musicians, is that we’ll be seeing a lot more of him between now and the inevitable impeachment. Whereas Obama had different esteemed musicians at every state function, I’m imaging that Trump will just rotate back and forth between Kid Rock and Ted Nugent, with Wayne Newton stopping by for the “really fancy” state dinners. I know it’s not really a big deal, at least in comparison with everything else coming at us, but it certainly adds insult to injury that Mr. Ritchie will be more ubiquitous now that we’ve entered the end times. But I guess it’s fitting.

[note: An earlier iteration of this post identified Warner Brothers as the entity behind Bob Ritchie and his loud, white and drunk Kid Rock character. (He’s kind of like Tony Clifton, but without the underlying subversive intelligence.) Little did I know at the time, however, that the pieces of the Warner Brothers empire had been smashed and scattered to the winds some time ago. As it turns out, Warner Brothers Records, after several sales and acquisitions, is now the property of Warner Music Group. This post has been edited accordingly.]

When does this guy go away? Seriously? He is only talent other than being extremely lucky seems to be turning society into one giant sea of misogyny and strip clubs. He looks like he hasn’t bathed since he was 8 years old and if he doesn’t have a soggy, half lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth, then he should. He made up his background (did not grow up in a trailer or poor) and his only real talent that I can see is throwing up his middle fingers (something I can do quite well, also). Seriously. At least Ted Nugent has some purpose–play guitar and fetch me a beer. This walking twat waffle breath has none. Seeing anything about this dumb fucking mind turd is like wiping my ass with my own eyes.

I actually like some of Kid Rock’s music and I also appreciate that he has done a lot for the City of Detroit in terms of charity.

The thing is though, he knows his audience which is mostly super racist and sexist young white men in lower socio-economic brackets. These T-shirts are obviously an attempt to make his audience feel important and valued even if it must be at the expense of others. It is text book bullying. The low self-esteem where it is born. The attempt to put others “in their place” etc. but the thing is, at the end of the day, the people who buy these t-shirts will still be low on society’s totum pole in terms of status and ironically, these kinds of displays of bullying are not going to endear this segment of the population to those higher up on the food chain.

All I know is that these kinds of T-shirts make me angry and when presented with public policy that will really screw over the sort of person who would buy such a t-shirt, I find it much easier to dehumanize them and support such policies. For instance, there are many reasons why I think that the left should focus more on the state level but today, I will admit that if blue states raise their taxes in response to a federal lowering of taxes and then use that money to make sure their residents are taken care of while no longer being donor states to the poorer red states, thus screwing over the demographic that would buy these t-shirts, the fact that the poor white misogynistic racists get screwed becomes a feature and not a bug. I get downright gleeful knowing that at least some of the people who voted for Trump will be among the most harmed by him. If it weren’t for more innocent people being harmed, I would be ecstatic at the thought. As one of my African American friends put it, “these poor white folks are about to find out that they are N*****s too” and so they are. So they are. I can’t bring myself to give a rat’s ass about them though. They deserve whatever they get.

I noticed that Brew Detroit has taken over Kid Rock’s Badass Beer. I’m about to the point where I’ll boycott anything that Kid Rock touches, so I’m thinking about contacting them and the other folks who contract brew there.

We were supposed to be the ones kicking people in the nuts right about now. Am I right? How could this be happening to us? Life clearly isn’t fair to us… It makes me so upset that I just want to “cut a bitch”.

my rhetorical threat towards EOS and all that she represents was not nearly as seated in true anger as your everyday cynicism seems to be, FF. I am certain your glee at thinking I was provoked will make this impossible to see, but that’s ok. Keep bringing up your literal interpretation. It only evidences the degree of anxiety you and many of your compadres feel about the legitimate anger of women and marginalized people.

“When they go low, we go high”. Well that didn’t work, so why don’t you try going lower? Much lower. Go to the right wing blogs and study your opponent. Come up with your own vile products they can’t resist. Something like American made Hillary toilet paper. Is it possible to make toilet paper out of poison ivy? That’s where you should be spending your energy. Get them to willingly give you their money in return for anus rash. Then sell them lotion made from liberal tears. They will not be able to resist it. Real liberal tears! But mixed with ghost pepper oil. Or better yet something that can be time released, so they won’t connect it to you product. Maybe something carcinogenic but legal? That’s where your mind should be going. Stop wailing about Kid Rock and fight back!

Does anyone have a good way to respond when you see people wearing racist/sexist shirts? I usually see very sexist ones–“no fat chicks” “get me a sandwich”, that sort of stuff. I always want to say something but am not quite sure what.

Also, I was remiss in not pointing out that half of KR’s lyrics are literally using his name as a verb. It was cute when the Smurfs did it but I would rather drink the vitreous humor from my eye sockets that go around “KidRockin'”. Ugh.

I’m serious though–what do we say to people wearing shirts like this? Or do we just let it go in the spirit of picking our battles?

Don’t worry FF, we will get to metaphorically kick those asshats in the balls eventually. And by that I mean they will have their privilege reduced if not entirely eliminated. This election has delayed progress, not stopped it. I will admit though that I have found it amusing to watch those Youtube videos of people who thought that Trump winning meant that their former privileges would be restored and then finding out that just isn’t the case.

Teacher Patti, it really depends on the situation for me. Sometimes I just give such people a dirty look. Other times, I engage them. I might ask them why they want to advertise that they are so sexist for instance.

FF. Um no. There is no equivalence there. I assume you are referring to Trump’s “pussy grab” comment. The difference there is that he wasn’t being metaphorical.

If you are talking about KR’s shirts. Well, the main difference there is that there is a much greater problem in our society with violence coming from men than violence coming from women. And fwiw, I think that your much larger reaction to any kind of violent rhetoric coming from women than your reaction when it is coming from men says something about you and what you consider to be the privilege of white men and the role of women in political discourse.

Oh, it is obvious. I mean, here you are with not a peep of criticism for Kid Rock but instead you choose to focus on women who said things weeks ago. I mean, I get it. It bothers you to see women acting in a traditionally masculine way and claiming that kind of power for themselves. Ok, maybe that isn’t as obvious to you but I suspect that what you consider obvious here is normalized patriarchal thinking.

It doesn’t diminish anyone’s hypocrisy as much as shine a light on it.

Yes, I get it that you think that any use of violent metaphorical rhetoric means that one cannot point out the violent unfortunately-less-than-metaphorical rhetoric of others but I assure you, there is a distinction there that your bias is preventing you from seeing. I don’t feel up to trying to educate you fully on the concept of context but I will just say that context really matters. For instance, it is ok for a black person to use the N-word but not ok for a white person to and because each person has a very different relationship with the word, this is not a hypocritical position. Violent rhetoric is much less likely to be metaphorical when it comes from a man. Even when it clearly is intended to be figurative rather than literal, it still comes from a place of oppression. A place of oppression that as a woman, I simply cannot occupy regardless of my intentions or meaning.

Patty– I think you can take the approach to offending T’s that my 10 year old son did when he saw a dude in an ‘I <3 boobs' t-shirt. He just said, 'that's not going to work out for that guy.' Anyone wearing an idiotic tshirt is choosing to self-identify as an idiot. It's a good thing my son didn't feel a need to say anything because apparently the I<3 boobs t-shirt were a breast cancer awareness campaign…

Lynne– I truly appreciate you defending me with better analysis and words than I could muster, but like the tshirts, Mr Flakes, iRobert's etc persistent degree of offense reveals more about them than it ever will about me. I'm really fine with it. When one employs rhetorical weaponry to make solid impact, the ripples are to be expected. I know how turn being a mark on its ear. I was practically raised to it.

These guys like to imagine we are offended at everything while they display their own fragility at every turn. My secret power is not being easily offended. Most women and POC who have been through fires can summon up their inner soldier with little effort at all. Pick battles. Arguing with Trumpers one doesn't personally know about sexism is useless. Best to provoke it into revealing itself on the left. There's Plenty right here on these blog comment threads. Because cultural bias does not exist only in the most obvious places. I don't really think FF or IRobert are redeemable in Terms of gender bias, not do I think they care. Nor do I think they should care. But many others within hearing range have denied gender bias on the left and in progressive circles, and yes, in the Sanders campaign, even as stories of pedophiles and serial assault perpetrators in progressive circles continue to come up. If you ask they will say there is no connection between a community that ignores gendered political attacks and a community that has a high level of sexual violence despite posturing as progressive. They will however concede that racist or homophobic language Stems from racial and anti gay bias and is connected to very real violence and systemic exclusion. For some reason, the use of gendered abusive language does not turn violence against women into a hate crime. It's worth asking ourselves why. I just think there is an unwillingness even among women and many feminists to acknowledge the scope and scale of the problem of gender bias and violence against women. We want to pin it on a type of person. But it's everywhere and in all of us– even when we minimize a problem in order to go along to get along. A tshirt is not the problem. It's a symptom. Symptoms are everywhere. They draw attention to the real lives issues. Symptomatic relief does not solve the problem– it just lessens the constant reminders.

Different women will have different responses despite both being feminists. I can agree it’s offensive without feeling offense. Lynne feels angry. It’s not an ideology. Being a woman in this culture is a lived reality as is being a feminist.,There’s no right answer or position. We all have the lens of our personal experience through which to view and respond to the endless gender bias in our culture.
lastly, anger is not necessarily a sign of fragility.sometimes it’s legitimate. I don’t think white male anger at feminism is ever legit. I can see it’s real. it’s just not warranted.
One of the gifts of feminist inquiry is being able to see clearly how fucked up is the majority culture’s faith in reason and logic as absolute. It’s used to bolster their wavering insecurity. To dismiss what is logically just in favor of the humdrum status quo.

Does it really matter if we’re angry if the anger is legitimate? And if you don’t think it’s legit FF please do tell– why?

Jean, I wasn’t defending you as much as myself but ok. ;) The thing is that I think comment sections are valuable. People use them to work out their opinions on things. There is a reason why Russia employs people to contribute to American comment sections and it is plausible that they may have had enough impact to influence the election. I also have a problem where I am compulsive about calling out things like racism and sexism when I see them.

I run up against white fragility all of the time because of this. One example: white people who get angry when they aren’t treated nicely by POC and women when they are wearing offensive clothing such as these T-shirts. I mean, they completely ignore the aggression expressed in the t-shirt message and then only focus on the reaction it provoked. I am afraid that currently white fragility is such that pointing out racism or sexism is worse than displaying racism or sexism in the first place.

I think anger is very powerful. It only is an indication of fragility when the source of the anger is small in relation to the anger expressed. Or when someone gets angry because they are denied something they were never entitled to in the first place. I.e. when there is a loss of privilege, white people will so often act like they are being oppressed because to them the privilege is so normalized that taking it away feels bad. That is what white male anger against feminism is all about and why it isn’t legit in my book.

What are you talking about? Nobody is expecting you to not be angry. Nobody is trying to delegitimize your feelings. Talking about our feelings is a good thing. Being angry is not bad. The foul messaging on the Kid Rock T-shirt is part of a very low level, hateful, and completely unproductive nation-wide “conversation”, which might as well just be an exchange of “fuck yous”, that you and Lynne have chosen to participate in recently without any signs of remorse. You think you added something valuable to the discourse when you told someone, who is part of the mm.com community to “shut up” and further to threaten violence by saying “I will cut you bitch”? No. You were being very destructive to discourse.

In particular, do I think there are legitimate reasons to dislike the Kid Rock T-shirt? Yes. I am not mentioning your hypocrisy on display on mm.com because I hope to somehow modify Kid Rock’s tone and content by shedding a light on it for him. Does that imply I have double standard for men and women? No. It has more to do with the fact that Kid Rock is not a member of the mm.com community, obviously; and he will probably not read anything I have to say, obviously; and because he has always been a thoroughly idiotic person, obviously.

The fact that Kid Rock is horrible in every way does not make your participation in grossly uncivil messaging any less horrible.

Lynne wants to say there is “no equivalence” between Kid Rock’s message on the one hand and yours on the other–and you try to hold Lynne’s explanation up as a valid response? Bull shit. You stated your opinion that you don’t even thing the Kid Rock t-shirt is racist and/or sexist, further stating you think it is violent….

Lynne: I love how you admitted that you now “find it easier to dehumanize” a group of people.

I really don’t think dehumanizing people is all that hard for you in the first place. Look at how you repeatedly misapply your favorite theories on people when you have no idea what you are talking about. Is it not interesting that you always have those theories ready for misapplication when someone disagrees with you–your theories conveniently explain why someone is disagreeing with you in the first place. Must be nice.

The idea that context matters is of course true. I just don’t think it applies here. When it has become normal for large groups of people on the left to say things like “Shut up. I will cut you bitch” is it then surprising that someone else would respond with something like “suck my dick”? No. That’s how low level conversations work.

None of this matters if you don’t believe that large numbers of people were driven away from the bigots on the left to join the bigots on the right. I continue to believe that the right is being strengthened by the foul and close-minded discourse of many people on the left. I am not saying that is Jean’s MO but I am saying that her foul words, in this case, and her and your defense of her foul words, are an example of the hateful and thoughtless messaging from the left that is counterproductive.

I don’t necessarily think RTW was wrong, just how it happened was wrong and illegal.
I can’t imagine how it passing that that way was was legal. And no, just because Obamacare passed quickly did not justify how RTW passed.
and that is what is wrong with Michigan, in a nutshell.

Basically, the Republicans have made it difficult for black people to vote…no one is going to thank them for that. It was wrong to do that. And somehow…I am not sure that Republican Party leadership understands that.

And they completely dominate the school systems. When was the last time the legislators…all of them…stopped by the D? If they want to write that type of legislation, I would expect them to be stopping by early and often, visiting the schools, checking up on things, and making sure their legislation is working the way they wanted it to…which is well. Because I doubt they meant to punish Detroit.. just the labor people they were after…which was stupid, because they put the kid’s right in the middle of the argument. So I think they should be visiting Detroit every week, all of them.. just to see what is going on…

And let me clarify.. I think those legislators meant for their legislation to work well… I doubt they thought, well…sure…let us create holy havoc down in Detroit, and they decide, they will never ever ever go to Detroit ever again.. In other words, I expect they thought they were making good decisions, and now they should check it out for themselves…not sure what type of welcome they will get…well, that would be valuable feedback… right?

FF, yes. I really like some of Kid Rock’s music. I am particularly fond of an album called Early Morning Stoned Pimp. It has some great collaboration with an amazing Detroit funk band called The Howling Diablos. It helps that his level of misogyny is so high that he comes across as more pathetic than offensive.

Oh and Stupid Hick, of course you can make toilet paper out of poison ivy. I don’t know if you can make the super soft fluffy kind but it is a plant material that can be pulped for paper. You get them to buy it by telling them some lie about it. Not directly, of course, that would be obviously illegal. No, you get one of those fake news content creators to start some rumor about the super patriot he-man tingly butt paper.

The more I think about it, the toilet paper idea is too complicated. But a Liberal Tears brand wood alcohol might work. Imagine commercials featuring a Kid Rock lookalike yelling into the camera, “I should have listened, this is NOT for human consumption! I just drank a tiny amount, and it was SWEEEET, just as I thought real liberal tears would be, but let me tell you it put me in a coma for a week! Seriously, I woke up and I was blind!” Cut to a Hillary Clinton look-alike, red face and in tears, bawling, “Whatever you do, DON’T drink Liberal Tears brand wood alcohol! I’m telling you, I know what’s good for you! If you drink Liberal Tears brand wood alcohol, it will fuck you up so bad you might die! Please, please, I implore you, don’t drink my Liberal Tears!”

Lynne, I’m not a fan of Kid Rock at all, but the first time I heard his version of Sweet Home Alabama, I was in an unusual emotional state and something about the lyrics put tears in my eyes. On another note, I refused to listen to Taylor Swift until Pete Larson praised her song “Shake it Up” on this blog, and I have to agree it’s genius for a pop song.

So whatcha gonna do about the Tshirts?
not buy them..for one.
not buy them ..for two
not buy them…for three.
I have seen offensive Tshirts at Sears..
I didn’t vote for Trump. I think he is trouble with a capital T. Hillary should have won, but she didn’t. That is our system of government, gerrymandering and all…
So the only place this is a pertinent argument is what if a kid shows up with this tshirt at a school? or a workplace…

Maybe this young woman is being over-sensitive…
Maybe that Uniuon chief is too…
Bith are getting death threats for standing up to the Trump and getting called out on his tweets. Megyn Kelly said the same the on Fresh Air the other day. The tweets are no big deal, and she’s used to getting death threats, the scale of the harassment by his supporters that follows a Trump call out is what is scary and overwhelming. The name, the t-shirt, the tweet are just a symptom of the much larger problem of gender bias and it’s expression in extremely high levels of violence against women in this country. I would say gender norms are part of why we have such a violent society period, but you know maybe I’m just being too sensitive.

Oh wait am I too sensitive or too angry or too violent?? I forget. This forum is confusing. I think the problem is that I care about something you would rather no one mention. It feels ba-a-a-d. You aren’t responsible for that. you want to say I’m exaggerating, etc etc. but the numbers are there. Then you want to question causality or relevance etc etc. Mostly you just want to question.

People are sensitive aka reactive when defensive. I may be defensive about violence against women, but I don;t believe I’m being overly so. There is no element of surprise anymore. I’m accustomed to it. People insulated from hard realities tend to react with surprise and defensiveness when told those hard realities exist for other people. They also tend to prescribe solutions rather than acknowledge the harm. Segregation in its many forms is another kind of insulation from reality. People (rich people, white people, men, rich women, white women, rich POC, liberal people etc etc) tend to be reactive and over-sensitive when told other people, with whom they rarely interact, have complaints about them. There complaint is the complaint…that’s being fragile and over-sensitive. That’s what a victim complex looks like.

When people who are marginalized and subject to systemic violence (aka actual victims) complain and ask to be seen and heard, that is not them being over sensitive or causing trouble. That is them being legitimately angry and telling you there is trouble. There are many kinds of privilege and many kinds of marginalization. It’s complex… We all can be over-sensitive at times. We all can sometimes have legitimate cause for complaint. Listening to people who live different lives than us is the only way forward.

I am still waiting for FF to explain why it is that women and POC have no legitimate cause for complaint.

No Jean, it is not confusing at all. Whenever an injustice is done to anyone there is, for everyone, a legitimate cause for anger, complaint, and self-defense . I appreciate you sharing the Megan Kelly story but let’s focus on you for a minute.

Below is the thread and context of your threats. Please do us all a great service and show us the exact words that were used by EOS which caused you to make threats of violence against EOS. Let’s take care of this right now.

EOS
Posted November 11, 2016 at 8:43 am | Permalink
Bigotry definition: stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.
I think many Clinton supporters are shining examples of bigotry in action. You attempt to demonize all political opinions that differs from your own. You sling mud and call names and shout down any form of dissent. You don’t even hold out the possibility that people chose Trump for any reason other than racism or sexism.
I don’t doubt that you think the Democratic Party has the solutions to many of today’s problems. I don’t doubt that you sincerely believe she was the better candidate. I just think that you were misled by a constant stream of biased reporting and an indoctrination led by academia, the mainstream media, and collectivism engineered by the elite.
8 years of Obama didn’t improve the condition of our country. Let’s let Trump try a different set of tactics and see the result. Let’s get businesses back in the USA employing all Americans. Let’s try to avoid endless wars. Let’s change the tax laws to remove the breaks for the wealthy. Let’s see what happens when we put America first.

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 8:45 am | Permalink
Hillary Clinton didn’t just win the popular vote. She won it by a substantial margin.
By the time all the ballots are counted, she seems likely to be ahead by more than 2 million votes and more than 1.5 percentage points, according to my Times colleague Nate Cohn. She will have won by a wider percentage margin than not only Al Gore in 2000 but also Richard Nixon in 1968 and John F. Kennedy in 1960.
David Leonhardt
NYTimes Op-Ed Columnist

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 8:50 am | Permalink
EOS– I have called out anti-conservative bigotry on the left– and plain old bias. There’s plenty of it to go around. BUT there is a difference between being oppositional to entrenched interests and being oppositional to the already marginalized.
And the difference is in the risk of actual harm entailed in those biases.
Duh… Big duh.
Like real threat. So stop botching about how you are victimized but how they should toughen up.
We are facing real harm now. This is not rhetoric. The way you feel about those unborn fetuses, that’s how we fill about the risk of physicla harm and displacement and further impoverishment and exclusion of people of color. muslims, the disabled and LGBTQ people from the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
So shut the fuck up. It’s going to get ugly. Stay out or I will cut you, Bitch.

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 8:52 am | Permalink
8 years of Obama DID improve our country from the fucking disaster it was via the very same economic mechanisms you champion.
Your magical thinking extends beyond religion.

EOS
Posted November 11, 2016 at 8:59 am | Permalink
So shut the fuck up. It’s going to get ugly. Stay out or I will cut you, Bitch.
Wow. How Progressive of you.

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:06 am | Permalink
Oh please bring your moralistic judgment on me. How very Christian of you.
Your viewpoint now threatens my well being and the well being of people I love. So yeah, I will not play nice with you anymore.
Jesus would throw you out of the church if he knew how you bastardized his religion.

Demetrius
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:08 am | Permalink
Jean Henry: “So shut the fuck up. It’s going to get ugly. Stay out or I will cut you, Bitch.”
Just let that sink in a bit, everybody …

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:11 am | Permalink
There is nothing about progressivism that says I can’t fight back. Christianity on the other hand demands that you turn the other cheek. So please do. Let’s see how that works.
I learned, growing up among committed pacifists who got abused regularly by bullies, that I was not ever going to be one of them.
Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:12 am | Permalink
Demetrius clearly does not feel this threat personally. He would, as always like to condemn the actions of those who do, and then assure them that he has all the answers to help them.

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:25 am | Permalink
“If I had my life to live over, I would do it all again, but this time I would be nastier.”
—Jeannette Rankin (1880-1973), first woman elected to Congress
Demetrius
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:35 am | Permalink
@ Jean
Why do you think you’re the only one who’s upset by this election?
Believe me … I’m angry, sad, and more than a little anxious about what the ultimate outcome of will be.
The difference is that I believe the main thing we need to be doing right now is having some serious conversations (among ourselves, about what went wrong with the Clinton campaign) and YES – even with those who disagree with us (to try to figure out why nearly 50 percent of Americans voted for someone like Trump.)
What I don’t believe will help right now is continuing to lash out at opponents (let alone some allies) – by calling them racist, sexist, stupid, etc.
What I think helps even less is telling people you disagree with to “shut the fuck up” and threatening to “cut a bitch” like some bratty 11 year-old who is trying to act tough on Twitter.

Thom Elliott
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:38 am | Permalink
Bigotry doesn’t exist in the vacuum certain local fascists want to represent it as, it isn’t merely intolerance of difference. You represent an overt enemy to gays, people of color, etc anyone not white and christianist. It is right to rebel against the reactionary, the contradictions between our people are intrinsic to the heart of beings themselves. Whether you have good intentions for your race and superior religion etc are irrelevant, you are the enemy. Liberals may not see the danger you represent, but I do. This is why dialectics are tragic, you may have some commendable ideals etc, but the contradiction between us represented by antagonism is and will always be first. Death to fascism.

Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:51 am | Permalinkhttp://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/11/students_at_dewitt_school_form.html
Jesus Demetrius, we should not be spending our time confirming our bias.
White women threw people of color under the bus. That’s the story. Divide and conquer. Bigotry has won and it must be fought. I don;t give a fuck about your self-serving analysis. My point was that your position never properly valued the voice of people of color, people with disabilities, Muslims, etc etc. It only vlued a leftist rhetoric about the working class. Rhetoric that denied the long history of how the working class and labor was used to marginalize people of color. Even whote women (Rosie the Riveter) was used to marginalize people of color. And we celebrate it unconditionally because it fits our damn narrative.
White people need to step back and stop offering even well meaning solutions. They have been drinking from a poisoned well. People of color voted intelligently. LGBTQ people voted intelligently. First time voters voted intelligently in numbers that would give the left overwhelming victories. And they are emergent. So we can have that conversation about degrees of socialism later. The election is over. Bernie and Hillary both lost to a bigot.
Time to pivot to the social justice battle. I think you might learn a lot. About anger that is legitimate. About the need to explore your discomfort. And move away from ideology and into exploring why white people (our class) are so fucked up.
I’m glad I’m moving to Whitmore Lake. There’s a lot of work to do in places like that. I’m not interested in the liberal circle firing squad cluster fuck anymore.
Jean Henry
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:56 am | Permalink
Demetrius: you can start with looking up ‘tone policing.’
I’m glad I make you uncomfortable. Every white person needs to be more uncomfortable every day. We need to dive into our discomfort and our willful detachment from issues of social justice. We need to fight inwardly and outwardly.

EOS
Posted November 11, 2016 at 9:56 am | Permalink
No Thom,
I’m not a fascist. I’m a lone individual who has an opinion who happens to be white and a Christian. I have as much right to have a seat at the table, and a part in the discussion, as any other individual. I am not an enemy to gays or people of color or everyone who doesn’t look like me. I am not a threat to any individual. My only weapon is reason.
Lynne
Posted November 11, 2016 at 10:01 am | Permalink
The way liberal white men have shown that they cant stand powerful women has made me very sad. That chiding not to be angry from white men is insulting but says more about Demetrius than anything else.

EOS
Posted November 11, 2016 at 10:10 am | Permalink
No Lynne,
Jeanne’s comment suggests that she might have just finished binge watching 4 years of “Orange is the New Black”. It is not appropriate in a civil conversation. It is not appropriate among intelligent persons. It does not further her cause and it diminishes her voice. It felt threatening to me. I’ve tried to be sensitive and I haven’t been gloating. I will excuse it due to her emotional state after a disappointing election. But I hope comments like this don’t continue.

“Bias incidents on both sides have been reported. A student walking near campus was threatened with being lit on fire because she wore a hijab. Other students were accused of being racist for supporting Mr. Trump, according to a campuswide message from Mark Schlissel, the university’s president.”

Lessons in false equivalence above. I have said all I need to say about the comment in question. Nice attempt to redirect though. I am not a toddler. I can stay on point. You still have not answered my question.

If you look further down the thread you will see my explanation. (hint: it’s not really a threat of physical violence, since I have no idea who EOS is) you kept that out of your re-posting. I don;t need to explain myself again. I have explained myself. This is now the 4th time it has been brought up out of context to dismiss my perspective. I’m sure it will happen. I just can’t bother to look up and repeat my response becaue I know, sure as rain, that it will NOT be the end of it. Your need and others to bring it up repeatedly, says a lot more about you and your limitations than it says about me.

I am not trying to be sneaky. I did my best to cut and paste the context of the conversation from which your threat arose so that you could point to the exact thing EOS said that caused you to deliver a threat of violence.

I did not include your so called explanation because it occurred two days later and there were something like 70 unrelated comments in between. Below is what I think you referring to when you just now said you have explained this already.

Is there anything you would like to add?

jean henry
Posted November 13, 2016 at 10:46 am | Permalink
I have been asked privately to explain my ‘threat’ to EOS. I used antagonistic teen tweet language intentionally, knowing EOS would not be able to ‘read’ it but assuming others here would. Clearly I was mistaken. I wanted EOS to feel for a moment the threat of physical harm that so many feel every day right now because of bigoted belief systems like hers. Since EOS is a pseudonym and no one seems to know who she is, and my name is public, actual threat was non existent. It was not a possibility. Also should she spew her bullshit rhetoric here again, I will not play nice. I will return and rhetorically cut her. Because she is a bitch. Mark can choose to love his enemies but that is always a position of privilege free from risk. (It also solves no problems as it asks nothing of anyone) For others, ideological smug sexist bigots like EOS represent real threat.

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[…] I should add that I’m almost certain that Ritchie has no interest in the position, and only floated the idea as a way to get himself in the media, and build some kind of buzz around the series of shows he’s currently doing in Detroit, at the new Redwing’s arena, but I think I probably said the same thing about Trump during his campaign… that there’s no way that he’d want to do the work required of the position, and the he was likely just doing it to sell t-shirts and hats. But, as we now know all to well, we have to be prepared for anything, especially in the age of Trump. I’m sure there are people out there, who really think Ritchie, with his appeal to the “don’t give a flying hillbilly fuck” crowd, might have a shot at taking down Debbie Stabenow. And I’m sure, there are people telling him that, if he were to do it, they could make the work easy for him, and ensure that he’d make a lot more money than he does selling tickets to hillbilly cruises and shirts that say “_onald Trump, the D is missing because it’s in every hater’s mout…… […]