I think that oreimo and usagi drop are two clear examples of incest used for the wrong reason. First oreimo they already established cleary that they're brother and sister and had a brother and sister relationship, they lived all their lives and never once hinted to the fact that there where romantic feelings here, and just suddenly they have of physical desire to be with each other? Horseshit! at least in yosuga no sora they showed one time when they kissed as kids establishing an emotional and confusing attraction. In oreimo it's basically the brother with no reason kisses his sister and thinks " oh my god I can't believe my sister is so fucking hot, i wanna start a relationship with her". Same goes for usagi drop, a father daughter relationship was already rooted yet, for some reason, they decide to turn it into a romantic one out of nowhere. They already had a good relationship. Why ruin that? Why? Because FUCK YOU that's why! It's like that thing I said earlier. Once you established the foundation of the relationship it's very hard to replace it, and usagi drop's credit Daikichi did have problems at first transitioning to the father daughter relationship that they had into a romantic relationship, in fact Daikichi said he wasn't really for it at first , but of course he gives into the attraction and the two of them become a couple. For me this is problematic because there have been years and years of development for the father daughter bond they established in the series and to just replace it almost easily with a romantic one is just a spit in the face on that developing father daughter bond. If there putting an incestual relationship in an anime for a character study, trying to understand and analyze the character's psyche as to why they're doing what they're doing and why they got into an incestual relationship. Then it's not entirely wrong from an unbiased perspective, but if they're just putting it in for the sake of incest,Then yea it's fucking stupid.

Here's the thing, I will defend Oreimo in this instance because while it's not perfectly written it IS shown that at the very least Kyousuke is physically attracted to Kirino early on and Kirino her self was romantically attracted to Kyousuke. Kirino never got a chance to grow out of those feelings so they just kind of lingered.

Usagi Drop, while not actually incest, just kind of came out of nowhere though.

The thing there is that technically Usagi Drop can be counted as incest in the same manner that stepdad/stepdaughter would be counted as incest, AKA legally not incest but people that knew them would be weirded out by it.

>>120580496OreImo had a believable and great incestual relationship, it's like you did not even watch it. Sure the Light Novel made it better, which is usually case, but people claiming the anime just pushed the incest in the last 3 episodes did not watch the anime properly. Now purely on what we see in the anime: You could see Kirino's dependence on Kyousuke and her strange desire to have him nearby all over the anime. This was obviously more prevalent in Season 2 but also Season 1 showed hints (e.g Episode 6 when she was visibly upset that he slept over at Manami's house). Of course this is not true sexual interest or love but you could call it development in this direction. When Kirino revealed her everlasting affection for her brother and told him that he is the reason what kind of person she is today and what kind of accomplishments she achieved, I think all those little hints just added together to one picture.

And to be honest, the Yosuga no Sora anime was also pretty dominant in the sexual sector. It was pretty great and well developed but (probably due to being so short) the Visual Novel showed it perfectly why Sora was so obsessed with her brother and comparing this to the anime makes the anime looks like pure fapping material. (Don't hate me I love both.)

>>120581097I would like to add that, even though Kirino's love was way better presented, Kyousuke 's had a good development aswell. He didn't have the same base as Kirino but during the whole story he did everything he could to help Kirino because it was important for him on a personal level to be a reliable and good brother. He suffered a lot because Kirinos had problems dealing with his new character but all this 'suffering' changed both. I see Kyousuke's base of love in the fact that he finally left his comfort zone and grew as a person just because of Kirino. Thats also the reason why she should be the true best girl no matter what kind of preference you have. No other girl, especially not the basement dwelling nerd, could have had such a positive impact on him.

>>120580496 westermarck effect is suppose to block incest( If the westermarck effect truly exists) with usagi drops case there is no westermarck effect to keep the bounds of sexual interaction by hormones in place making what happened happen.

Oreimo on the other hand is deeply influenced by the westermarck effect but not in the right way instead of the effect working normally to keep them part it became a another play in the relationship as the roadblock to get over a hump of denial of feelings for each party which is lying to their selves when so they demonstrate many deep moving feelings for each other then manami acts like a booster to this effect by shitting on kirinos feelings internally pissing kirino off forever by telling her as a little kid that was wrong to love her brother.To a little kid that's like saying its wrong to love your mother and Manamiashit!

Yosuga no Sora is a complete block of the westermarckeffect caused by despair and sadness over the lost of their parents and needing love to fill the deep horrible void that was left by the death of their parents Haruka tries to find the love he needs so badly with other girls that has no idea what hes feeling But sora on the other hand knows very well what his feeling are really. So she wants him to count on her for once for help for his feelings but if she can't do that she gives up her will to live because she can't help the one she loves the most at the time they need help the most.

>Yosuga no Sora is a complete block of the westermarckeffect caused by despair and sadness over the lost of their parents and needing love to fill the deep horrible void

...Wrong. In the theoretical instance that the Westermarck Effect actually exists it never formed for Haru and Sora because they were separated for so much of their childhood due to Sora being in the hospital so much. Just watch the webm posted with >>120580904and you will see Haru talking about it.

Everything below>Haruka tries to find the love he needs so badly with other girls that has no idea what hes feelingis mostly correct however.

>>120582722Sora and Haruka also grew apart and only met very occasionally until Sora was discharged from the hospital. Sora was already in love with him as the only person her age she knew and Haruka thought she was hot and eventually started loving her romantically.

If i am not mistaken sheactually states in the Visual Novel that he used to visit her pretty often and overall her life in the hospital felt like a prison she couldn't escape from but everytime he visited and told her about what happened to him this day she felt like Haru freed her from this prison just for a moment. In the beginning he came nearly every day but the longer she was hospitalized it got less and less which ultimately resulted in her desire to see him getting stronger and stronger.

People always defend OreImo's incest, but in all of these fucking words people have posted about it thus far no one has been able to pinpoint any significant setups for their relationships in the beginning of volume 1.

The only thing you can, kinda, argue is that she's playing Little Sister based eroge, but all that we know is that she has a bit of a brother complex, but it doesn't really explain his feelings. There HAS to be some set up that he's attracted to her, or at least confused about his feelings in the beginning otherwise it looks super left field.

Usagi Drop's was a slap in the face too, because there was no set up in Daikichi's feelings, at all. Not only that, the author skipped out on developing how Daikichi's parental love for Rin transformed into a romantic love. Like, how did Daikichi decide that he was ok with putting his penis inside of Rin? Like, what happened that changed his mind. The clues should be in the story, but they are not there.

Op is right that out of the three Yosuga No Sora is the only one that did this theme right and any justice. Even if you don't like the the girls' stories there are hints and peaks into Haruka's and Sora's characters and relationships. That being said, the set up for their relationship was always there. Their mutual sexual attraction towards each other was never ambiguous. In terms of execution of the theme it is was the best of the three.

>>120583894>There HAS to be some set up that he's attracted to her, or at least confused about his feelings in the beginning otherwise it looks super left field. >the fucking series is called MY LITTLE SISTER CAN'T BE THIS CUTE>CHARACTER NOTICES CONSTANTLY HOW CUTE HIS SISTER IS

>>120583988It could be useful the next dialogue when Sora says the reason she gave up on the suicide as for the first time she felt needed by Haruka as she listened to his cry for help before almost drowning.

>>120584134There were a lot hints and interactions that even I saw when watching the anime which I did before reading the LN. Despite going full tsuntsun and showing a lot of disrespect for Kyousuke in the beginning Kirino got upset pretty often over strange things and got pretty demanding when it came to him assisting her with some random stuff.

It is not normal for a sister to go nuts because he sleeps over at some other girls houseIt is not normal for a sister to go nuts when your brother seems to have interest in some other girl.It is not normal for your sister to get a fake boyfriend just for validating your affection for her( this is in the later stages though)Of couse you can argue the term 'normal' is bullshit and every sister is different, like some can be more clingy and shit but these are all valid setups none the less. That being said the sexual tension comes with the romantic feelings that were obviously there

All I know its that Yosuga no Sora is the worst anime I ever seen in my life, didn't give a single shit about anyone, you can defend the VN if you want, but the anime was the most boring shit ever made, except for the omakes and the second ending, that was the only reason I keep watching this.

>>120583894>People always defend OreImo's incest, but in all of these fucking words people have posted about it thus far no one has been able to pinpoint any significant setups for their relationships in the beginning of volume 1.Didn't someone get absolutely wrecked like a year ago for holding that position? The anon kept backpedaling about it and we found set ups within the first pages of the series. And then there's the title fucking staring at you too.

>>120580496>they lived all their lives and never once hinted to the fact that there where romantic feelings here, and just suddenly they have of physical desire to be with each other?Stopped reading there.You clearly didn't even watch/read Oreimo or are just trolling.

>>120603437We only know 2 cases in all of world history of mutation creating blonde hair gene. First time was about 10k years ago around Black Sea and second time in the Pacific islands (there's some blond niggers there).

>>120603180I'd be more concerned about why their children look carbon copies of their parents. Seriously how fucking hard is it to make children look like a hybrid of their parents instead of being the clone of their same sex parent?

>both siblings consult mom, who's ultimately okay with incest>Ririko mastubates while sleeping next to onii-chan>eventually they both learn of each other's feelings and desires to fuck>onii-chan wants to seal his desires>but eventually she temps him enough, so he promises her they'll seal the deal if she does well on tests in school>she spends a whole week being proper and studying>tells other girls she loves onii-chan and not only in sinlings kind of way>runs overjoyed to onii-chan's classroom to show him results>after school other girls take a hint and let them go home just by themselves>they don't even make it home, Ririko drags him to some bushes and they finally fuck there

See faggots, this is what you miss out on by not knowing Japanese. And hell, her route is far from over and there's way more to the VN itself, but that's just as far as I got now.

>>120611205True.People complain about how the quality of discussion lowered nowadays and how we can't have "serious discussion" anymore, but the truth is 4chan used to be less serious.It used to be more like [s4s], ironically.Once more people joined, everything became much more serious and the fun ended./a/ in particular became very strict in enforcing standards, which kept our quality high and the shitposters away, at the expense of the fun.Perhaps we should really just "take it easy", like he said.;_;

/v/'s standards dropped and it is now anathema to them to post positively about something, every thread on /v/ must be filled with vitriol and hatred, either real or "ironic" towards the threads subject, no matter what.

No thank you, I would rather us be more serious while still being able to talk about the things we love positively instead of becoming a bunch of people who hate, or just jokingly hate, the things we are talking about.

>>120611877>every thread on /v/ must be filled with vitriol and hatredWe might be different, but there's always lots of hate for almost every show, even here.Though I've never been on /v/, so I might not understand what you are talking about.

There's lots of hate sure but it doesn't make up 80% of EVERY FUCKING THREAD. Hell, depending on time of day you can oftentimes have a thread that has less than 10% of it made up of shitflinging and pointless hatred, whereas in /v/ a solid 80% of it will involve at least some of the following>lol downgrade>memegame>random E-celeb played this game therefore it is now uncool to like it>This game is exclusive to X, ergo it is terrible>konsolekids shitflinging at each other, yes even in threads about games that are PC exclusives>NEVER EVER.goldface man>This game sucks, I didn't play it but I saw a screenshot from the 240p version of the trailer on youtube and I can accurately determine it is terrible and downgraded>You enjoyed the game? SHILL SHILL SHILL!>cuck>copy that>big guy FOR YOU>shifty_jew.jpg>the jews did this>it's ok when X COMPANY THAT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU does it>gog guys vs steam guys>lol he bought a video game, they have it for free at piratebay>BLUNDER OF THE CENTURY>random SJW shitposting

It's fucking awful and I can't stop going there because I ACTUALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT VIDEO GAMES

Fuck I should stop going there, /tg/ has better video game discussion than fucking /v/ does, too bad it's limited to just RPGs and 4Xs even if they are my favorite genres.

>>120613208She could have any cock in that village they live with her superior big city upbringing and European genes just like Haruka could get any pussy. But different from Haruka who went for multiple girls she only cared for him in every situation.

>>120612682Well that isn't actually the kind of shitposting we've had to deal with "historically".Narutards/Gaia and such are quite different from that.We should learn from the #gamergate bullshit and never allow activism/politics into /a/./pol/ and SJW should never be welcome./a/ is probably the board that is the most clean from that BSNor should normailfags be welcome, but that's a different story.

>>120614419The better question is if they would go against their kids doing the same, at least until the kids fully prove their love, or they would actively support it from start despite all the risks and obstacles they lived through.

Though the best would be not having kids or just adopting anyway if they are blood related.

>>120608191>Oreimo is the story how the siblings reconcile and ends with them finally accepting THEIR LOVE FOR each otherWhy can't it be just "accepting each other"? Why did Fushimi write an incest story when he had the capabilities to write a family drama?

>>120615870It's because no one actually tried making a light novel series without any kind of romance whatsoever. But I guess the editors want muh romance, so stories that talk about family life is a rarity, even in manga nowadays.

>>120616028>It's because no one actually tried making a light novel series without any kind of romance whatsoeverWhile that's true Oreimo never wanted to just be about normal family life. Even if there are not enough anime/manga without romance you shouldn't blame a series that was never going into that direction, it's not some kind of missed opportunity.

>>120612285/v/ is basically the state most boards move towards, albeit at their own paces: almost everyone hates everything including each other, at least half of all threads are made to annoy others, and like something someone doesn't like? You're an autistic neckbeard virgin loser etc.

/a/ has all of this, so I can't call it good with a straight face, but the level is different.

>>120635431And Kirino also decided to put Ayase in charge of Kyousuke in the apartment arc, and she helped him find Sakurai again.

She did setup that silly ploy with Mikagami because she came back from America for him and she feared that he didn't care for her anymore, but that arc was a major turning point in her character. After that she's guiding his cock if anything, despite her interest in him.

>>120637088No. I have enough bottled up anger I chose to never seek long term professional help with as is.

I'll be satisfied when the sun burns out before humanity can spread their dominant stupidity and all consuming obsession with fucking throughout the universe. Looking no further than selfish NTRshit loving faggots who don't give a shit about true love, this race doesn't deserve advancement.

>>120637310The thread's been bumped enough times now and it's almost morning for muricunts. Return to discussing the joy of one of the purest forms of love and leave me to my simmering nonsensical hatred.

>>120639263In the same scene she told Ayase to wait until after his graduation with her confession because she wanted to settle things with him, keeping the promise and making him use his wish to keep her from going to europe. At least that's the way I interpreted Kirino wanting to delay Ayase's confession.

>>120639347I see what you mean. Yeah, she tried to delay their confession so that they wouldn't be rejected.

Kirino's initial plan was to confess/possibly date then move. Before talking to them it was just to move. The end result was always the same. That said, even she said that she didn't know what she'd do had she used that wish to make her stay. So she couldn't have planned what to do in that case or if that case happened..

>>120639425Agreed, it's not like Kirino planned everything into detail, judging from the passages and the short story from her POV she most likely just went with what felt right for her. We as the readers can talk like that because we have far more information.

>>120644613I never said I hated sex, I hate the braindead obnoxious faggots who think it's the single most important thing in all of creation. Lust over love is the exact reason trash like NTRshit exists in the first place and obsessing with getting laid over everything else is the exact kind of mentality that holds back any real progress. And normalfaggots are nothing but these exact retards or they're retarded tumblrscum who hate sex altogether because it's all automatically rape.

>>120612682I couldn't quit /v/ for a while because my browser autofilled to it every time I typed b or 4. So I blocked the url from my browser.Every time I go back I am immediately reminded why I left. There's nothing, absolutely nothing worth going to /v/ for.

>>120584871>There were a lot hints and interactions that even I saw when watching the anime which I did before reading the LN. Despite going full tsuntsun and showing a lot of disrespect for Kyousuke in the beginning Kirino got upset pretty often over strange things and got pretty demanding when it came to him assisting her with some random stuff. >It is not normal for a sister to go nuts because he sleeps over at some other girls house>It is not normal for a sister to go nuts when your brother seems to have interest in some other girl.>It is not normal for your sister to get a fake boyfriend just for validating your affection for her( this is in the later stages though)>Of couse you can argue the term 'normal' is bullshit and every sister is different, like some can be more clingy and shit but these are all valid setups none the less.

I understand that too, but the problem is that all this comes LATER, NOT IN THE BEGINNING, BUT LATER. OP is right. You can not just pull this shit out later int eh story it HAS to be set up, clearly, in the beginning otherwise it looks like an asspull.

If there was some sexual tension in the beginning then fine, ok, that's acceptable. YET that wasn't the case with Oreimo and that's the problem with its story. In Yosuga No Sora it's clear from the first two eps that Haru is sexually attracted to his sister. It's not clear from the beginning that Kirino and her brother were having that problem in OreImo. Even after a rewatch it just seems like brother and sister. No freaking subtext anywhere. Usagi Drop had the same problem.

>>120654000Are you the same guy who we had this discussion with before, and you kept back peddling as we gave examples of earlier and earlier subtext until we were essentially at volume 1 chapter 1 and you still refused to admit you're wrong?

>>120652559Sora's narration is interesting compared to Haruka, how she takes many sentences to explain something Haruka does in 3 words at most.

But that's in character since Sora is book smart with no experience of the world while Haruka is dumb academically but full of practical knowledge. The anime cut the studying session they had at Akira's temple when Sora was the only one who could easily and quickly solve any problem.

>>120654395The story in the VN and in the anime aren't really the same except for the few elements. They don't have a bicycle in the VN, they never shared a kiss when they were young, Sora has good health in the VN in comparison, they don't fuck on the entrance, their confession was completely different.

This is completely wrong, he has good grades but Sora is able to accomplish the same grades with less effort.

I shall cite the study group as an example. Everytime someone asked a question Sora and Haru both answered it immediately, with the final and supposedly most difficult question only being answered by Sora with Haru making a snide remark to Ryouhei.

This is from Ep9 s1, when Kirino was playing eroge and has to take a shower before an ero scene, she knock Kyousuke on the stairs and drop her panties, ending with her slapping Kyousuke, I don't remember anything like this in the LN.

This episode has a lot of neko white washing propaganda too, its make me think that the anime staff really wants to confuse the audience making it seems like her love for eroge is just her otaku creepy side, but in just one unanimated frame you can almost taste the suffering that Kirino is having for doing such an unthinkable thing like loving her brother.

She has spend years drowning herself in eroge, and suddenly he do all this sort of things, is as confusing to her as to Kyousuke and as to the audience.

>>120658753Fushimi actually wrote the basis for the episodes. The anime staff definitely twisted it considering that the episode is one where fans start getting the idea of Kuroneko being poor yet Fushimi has repeatedly stated that it's not true.

>>120669719>As I always heard it wasFrom basically no one. /a/ generally has a positive opinion of YnS but hey you are clearly one of simple mind. If you want an idea of what the show is like that guy has posted quite a few webms in this very thread that does a decent job of showing it and decide for your self.

The whole point of Usagi and its timeskip is that we don't get to see the leadup to the actual romantic attraction.

But either way, I don't see why it's so outrageous. Romance developing out of crazier circumstances is a thing in the real world. The point is that it is very difficult to make the perfect scenario for romance because so much of the concept of romance is illogical.

>>120685088>>120688026This. I wish anons would take a few minutes to think about circumstances behind posts or threads getting deleted rather than panicking and gradually spreading paranoia and fearmongering.

>>120679550No. Rape is actually painful to women while men just have a crazy bitch forcing their dick inside them because he said "Eh? Nandatte?" one too many times. All the poetic trauma shit forced to evoke emotion from readers or viewers is retarded as shit though. Japan's obsession with purity that /a/ has infected me with as well doesn't help matters in the slightest.

My brother's best friend colorfully devalued any emotional impact it could ever have with something as simple as "Stop sucking my dick or I'm calling the police."

It's like it's infuriating when some pathetic cowardly faggot thinks they can slap their so-called waifu around and it makes them a man, but it might as well be a comedy movie when a man is so much of a little bitch, it's the other way around with his cute loli waifu. Of course, we've stepped well into double standards at his point, so we'd better stop before this thread becomes shit.

>>120688578At the cost of becoming more >no fun allowed/a/ has tried to keep some sort of quality control compared to certain other boards. How well it worked, and whether or not it was worth it is up to everyone to decide for themselves. Really thiugh, I'm gonna keep pushing that sine we shouldn't blogshit, although it's part of this, we should instead move it to the archive unless at some point we start having this here again.

>>120688788For one, no name is a mental faggot with a rape fetish. Two, every single fucking human is different. There will be men who can be scarred by being "raped" by a woman, if the situation is bad enough, such as being tied up, or the woman being absolutely disgusting, and that's disregarding a situation where she uses something to fuck him in the ass, and last but not least>I'm right and you're wrong

>>120690549I should have just been more specific then. No woman can rape a man unless they're a hideous abomination. I don't count shit that isn't part of the body the same way I don't count it in "yuri".

>>120692121No. Having fun at a beach or something is what normals do. It would be weird if it was your background for longer than a few months maybe, but there's nothing wrong with it if it was recent.