Posted:23rd Oct 2003On another thread I put forward the view that inner peace could be attained through non religious means.

Raymund Phule disagreed, as do many religious people who may believe, for example, that true peace can only be found through Jesus Christ.

So I thought I'd start a new thread, here's the relevant part of my quote, followed by Rays reply :-

quote:Originally posted by onewheeldave:Life without a God is not meaningless, meaning and purpose can be found, for example, within oneself, and through acts of true compassion.

The miracle of us existing as conscious beings is in no way diminished if it is the case that we were not created by a God. and

quote:Originally posted by Raymund Phule: This I personally disagree with.

However Yes you can find peace within yourself, but it wont be complete. What if there was more, what if you could be more peaceful? What if the only way to do that is via the Grace of God? Would you want it?

[ 23. October 2003, 11:57: Message edited by: onewheeldave ]

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."

Now let me clear up a few things about Buddhism. First off this whole thing about Buddhists not believing in heaven or hell... Quite the opposite in fact, not only do they believe in heaven and hell, but they enumerate them into literally dozens of different TYPES of heavens and hells. Buddhists may believe in heaven and hells and consider them to be significant, but the Buddha himself considered all such metephysical questions to be irrelevant to the matter at hand (the elimination of suffering).

i.e. he neither affirmed nor denied them, just said that they were of no consequence.

You're right that there are many variations on buddhism today; some of them do emphasise heaven and hell realms, particularly Tibetan buddhism.

There are even some highly corrupt buddhist states in South East asia, where buddhism is misused in the way that christianity has been in the west.

However, the original, and very clear/consise teachings have survived, and there is a very specific 'parable' in which the buddha specifically states that metephysical speculation on matters such as the existence of God, the size of the universe, existence of heaven/hell; are basically irrelevant.

[ 05. November 2003, 02:35: Message edited by: onewheeldave ]

"You can't outrun Death forever.But you can make the Bastard work for it."

Posted:6th Nov 2003okay. in most forms of buddahism heaven is nirvana. there is no hell only reincarnation in to a lower social class. hevan and hell are from catholism and christanity. I study buddah for my religous studys class.