pinemom wrote:Sacramentogames! Yo. you dont know what "Moop" is????Get out of here! Go do LOT and LOTS of research

Yes, LOTS of research. I gotta give him credit tho for coming on the forum to participate. Run of the mill ScalperScum wouldn't have bothered. SacGames- if you *do* sell any of these packages, please take the advice/criticism you get here to heart.You may even run across some burners willing to help you out on the Playa .....

Weatherman, I am researching as we speak and everything burners give as criticism and advice is definitely taken to heart and I am trying to respectfully make changes in my post.

Isotopia wrote:Sacgames, I gotta say yours is one of the more disingenuous, bullshit posts I've suffered through in a very, very long time.

Sure it takes balls to come here. It takes an even heavier set to come here with the intent of blowing smoke up the collective ass of this board and expect to be taken seriously.

Thank you for your sarcastic remark. You are entitled to your opinion and you may enjoy Burningman YOUR way. I think I provide a wonderful service for those that cant put this experience together themselves.

Would you rather me stand here in front of you and give you a chance to express yourself and to be heard or would you rather me go away and continue on the path I rode in on?

I prefer to let you voice your opinions and I will make the experience better for everyone.

You don't have to take me seriously and I hope you still enjoy Burningman. No hard feelings.

unjonharley wrote:I do hope anyone concidering this package.. Drops it and comes to burning man without his expection..

"BBS" +1

Thank you for your comment. I have a client that has been there many times in the past. He is contracting with us to provide trailers, setup, tear down and the trash. Some people just do not want to deal with that part of burningman.

My goal is not to give out any expectations of what Burningman is. The only expectation any Burner can expect is mouthfull of playa dust.

unjonharley wrote:I do hope anyone concidering this package.. Drops it and comes to burning man without his expection..

"BBS" +1

Thank you for your comment. I have a client that has been there many times in the past. He is contracting with us to provide trailers, setup, tear down and the trash. Some people just do not want to deal with that part of burningman.

My goal is not to give out any expectations of what Burningman is. The only expectation any Burner can expect is mouthfull of playa dust.

One of your post said you were puttting togeather a vidio to tell them how to participate and expect.. Now which way is it??

unjonharley wrote:I do hope anyone concidering this package.. Drops it and comes to burning man without his expection..

"BBS" +1

Thank you for your comment. I have a client that has been there many times in the past. He is contracting with us to provide trailers, setup, tear down and the trash. Some people just do not want to deal with that part of burningman.

My goal is not to give out any expectations of what Burningman is. The only expectation any Burner can expect is mouthfull of playa dust.

One of your post said you were puttting togeather a vidio to tell them how to participate and expect.. Now which way is it??

Didn't you say some where that you had been to Burning Man??

You are right, let me rephrase that. Our video is to tell our guests the history of Burningman and show pictures that we have taken while we were there in the past. We will inform them what happens when you get to the front gate and what the playa is and about the dust. As for the participation, I can only encourage our clients to help others with setup, I cannot force it upon them. Every person from our camp will enjoy Burningman "their" way.

On a side note. We have not yet developed the video. I want to hear from my fellow burners feedback before I invest time and money on it. I thank you in advance for any input you give. If there is anything my clients should know about Burningman, let me know. I may or may not develop this DVD. I am still in the planning phase.

What happened to the Gift-economy part????
If someone spends 95 thousand bucks on making the experience great for themselves, shouldn't they offer something to the Playa as well????

Maybe donate a percentage of the money to help an art project or sound camp?

And by the way: I would be interested in offering a 20.000 $ VIP package
where they can enjoy a private VIP treatment in my Pool of Plenty - the pool filled with money I am planning to build this year on the Playa.

[quote="dadara"]What happened to the Gift-economy part????
If someone spends 95 thousand bucks on making the experience great for themselves, shouldn't they offer something to the Playa as well????

Maybe donate a percentage of the money to help an art project or sound camp?

And by the way: I would be interested in offering a 20.000 $ VIP package
where they can enjoy a private VIP treatment in my Pool of Plenty - the pool filled with money I am planning to build this year on the Playa.[/quote]

Thank you for your comment. I have changed my ebay post earlier today. As you can see we will be bringing 1000's of gifts to bring out to the playa. How many gifts? Not sure until I have completed the budget. A lot will depend on our costs of the RVs and transportation.

Also to get back to your second comment. We will be happy to bring in a small above ground pool (empty of course). You will have to fill it.

And as with art projects in previous years I will be struggling again to try to realize this new Dream financially. So somehow it doesn't feel right if people spend so much money just on themselves. Especially since those kind of people would have enough money to help a lot of artists create something for the Playa............

And as with art projects in previous years I will be struggling again to try to realize this new Dream financially. So somehow it doesn't feel right if people spend so much money just on themselves. Especially since those kind of people would have enough money to help a lot of artists create something for the Playa............[/quote]

Your artwork on the money is truly outstanding. Great job. I LOVE IT!

Like I said before. I can build the small pool above ground, I just would not be able to fill it.

As for people spending so much money on themselves, I understand your position. However they will be giving back to the Burningman community with gifts and the use of the Morphed Vehicle. My clients are also having 6 people stay an extra day to help with tear down and the removal of trash left behind by others.

Dear Kevin, first of all I never said I was empolyed by burningman.
second while I did hang up on you it was only after you called me a name.
third I still think what you are doing is disgusting.
fourth you said you were a burner, sounds to me like you haven't even been if you don't know what moop is.
fifth I'm glad you are getting some information from long time burners as your clients would be overwhelmed without you at least having some idea of what all of you were getting into.
sixth using my event to make money makes me sick. even if it isn't tons of money. plenty do it every year but it still makes me sick.

[quote="curiousgnate"]Dear Kevin, first of all I never said I was empolyed by burningman.
second while I did hang up on you it was only after you called me a name.
third I still think what you are doing is disgusting.
fourth you said you were a burner, sounds to me like you haven't even been if you don't know what moop is.
fifth I'm glad you are getting some information from long time burners as your clients would be overwhelmed without you at least having some idea of what all of you were getting into.
sixth using my event to make money makes me sick. even if it isn't tons of money. plenty do it every year but it still makes me sick.[/quote]

I have no problem with debating and swallowing pride when I made a mistake. I can say that yes, you did say you worked for Burningman and yes you did hang up on me.

Now I am a bit confused, do you work for the event or is this "your" event? On the phone you said you work for Burningman but in this last post you say "my" event. Will you please clarify?

Second, I did not use name calling. I am more professional than that. As you can see I have been attacked from every angle and I have not stooped down to the level of name calling nor lashing out. Lets move forward and try to be amicable to one another and find a way have fun at Burningman

[quote="Dustdevil"][quote="dadara"]What happened to the Gift-economy part????
If someone spends 95 thousand bucks on making the experience great for themselves, shouldn't they offer something to the Playa as well????

Sactagames,

Speaking of contributing, do you mind if I ask what price level tickets you purchased or if you have even purchased tickets?[/quote]

I paid for my tickets at the highest level. It would not be fair for me to come in and swoop up on all the tickets at the lower level. I paid $320 plus shipping. I will be happy to disclose this to any employee of Burningman for verification.

[quote="Dustdevil"][quote="dadara"]What happened to the Gift-economy part????
If someone spends 95 thousand bucks on making the experience great for themselves, shouldn't they offer something to the Playa as well????

Sactagames,

Speaking of contributing, do you mind if I ask what price level tickets you purchased or if you have even purchased tickets?[/quote]

$320 per ticket is what I paid.

As for gifts and giving back to the playa. Our morphed vehicle will be used by all burners to use. We have some plans for some awesome gifts to be given to our fellow burners. We are still in the planning stage and everything will be made and purchased here in the USA. As for cleanup, we will stay an extra day and fill our 24' truck to the gills with trash and clean the playa the best we can.

I have never once said that I work for burningman you misinterpreted me when I said that it was my event. Burningman is my event, I did not say it was only my event. It is my event because I participate in it and make it mine. It is everyones event, our event, your event, and yes my event.

curiousgnate wrote:I have never once said that I work for burningman you misinterpreted me when I said that it was my event. Burningman is my event, I did not say it was only my event. It is my event because I participate in it and make it mine. It is everyones event, our event, your event, and yes my event.

I saw this ad and really thought it was a joke. It boggles the mind that it exists.

Explaining it away as a valuable service for those too busy to be bothered with preparing and clean-up is beyond ludicrous. I am not so bothered by potential income the seller might receive, lots of people provide service/art/crafts/transport at a fee to supplement their own burn trip. What bothers me the most is the reasoning behind why this is a-okay.

I am busy too. I am not, however, a wealthy executive. I work as long, if not longer, hours for much less in pay. I love my job and would hate being a "business executive" in almost any scenario. I can't pay someone else to help me get my trip together. I do it myself in my spare time, which is as limited, if not more so, than the executive. Time off for the event is a huge dent in my budget, I save up nearly all my vacation time and have been fortunate to have bosses who will work with me on taking a week off during a particularly busy time. The "executive" that is the target for this package is not quite so constrained. In fact he/she probably has a satellite phone and internet access so business can be carried out on playa whereas I cannot (wouldn't want to anyway).

To me Burning Man is a significant commitment of my time and resources. I imagine it is for the majority of the rest of the participants. It is important to me. It is important to a lot of people. The work and time and effort we put into it is a reflection of how important it is to us. This "package" is a slap in the face to those of us who think of BM as more than just a week of partying in the desert.

I can understand curiousgnate's (the OP) reaction, and I can also see merit in the other arguments made to the contrary. What I DO like, however, is sacramentogame's tone of civility in the face of a lot of criticism. Lord knows, I try to keep my posts civil (which probably makes those posts, and, by extension, me, boring as hell) but the ticketing fiasco really unleashed my dark side. It really isn't easy to be as civil or professional as sacramento has been.

Sacramentogames, I think your offer is terrific and I have no problem with it. Indeed, I encourage this kind of positive proactive endorsement of Burning Man. And just to prove it, I would be happy to be on the receiving end of any monetary grant you with to make. You can even come by Barbie Death Camp and see your thousands of dollars at work. Yup, it would be my privilege. In fact, I insist. Do you have PayPal?

[quote="foofurr"]I saw this ad and really thought it was a joke. It boggles the mind that it exists.

Explaining it away as a valuable service for those too busy to be bothered with preparing and clean-up is beyond ludicrous. I am not so bothered by potential income the seller might receive, lots of people provide service/art/crafts/transport at a fee to supplement their own burn trip. What bothers me the most is the reasoning behind why this is a-okay.

I am busy too. I am not, however, a wealthy executive. I work as long, if not longer, hours for much less in pay. I love my job and would hate being a "business executive" in almost any scenario. I can't pay someone else to help me get my trip together. I do it myself in my spare time, which is as limited, if not more so, than the executive. Time off for the event is a huge dent in my budget, I save up nearly all my vacation time and have been fortunate to have bosses who will work with me on taking a week off during a particularly busy time. The "executive" that is the target for this package is not quite so constrained. In fact he/she probably has a satellite phone and internet access so business can be carried out on playa whereas I cannot (wouldn't want to anyway).

To me Burning Man is a significant commitment of my time and resources. I imagine it is for the majority of the rest of the participants. It is important to me. It is important to a lot of people. The work and time and effort we put into it is a reflection of how important it is to us. This "package" is a slap in the face to those of us who think of BM as more than just a week of partying in the desert.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.[/quote]

Thank you very much for your 2 cents. I appreciate the fact you took the time and posted your thoughts. I will be making changes to my ad tonight that might better explain my goals and intent. My intent was never to stir up a tornado here.

I would like to say that even if I were to back out of what I am doing, there are still companies out there that will cater to 30 fratboys looking to get drunk and screw as many chicks as they can at Burningman. This is not who I cater to nor will I cater to that crowd for any amount of money. I think I am providing a good service for people who would like to experience Burningman who are short on time.

On a positive note, I will be having my client help neighbors with building of their camps. We will also be sharing a morphed vehicle and giving back to the Burningman community

It would not be fair for me to come in and swoop up on all the tickets at the lower level.

Considering the potential profit you stand to make from this abomination it certainly wouldn't be fair.

Of course, I fully expect to read the requisite reply that the profit motive is not the driving reason behind your entrepreneurial parasitism. Rather, I suspect we'll be on the receiving end of some smarmy, feel-good justification of how you feel a compelling need - a drive - to introduce others to the wondrous nature of Burningman.

To which I'll skip ahead and ask would you feel so motivated if someone challenged you to make a percentage of your spots available for individuals in economic dire straits. Would you make them free or at a radically reduced price? You know, something like the event does or municipalities demand of individuals (or corporations) who stand to profit tremendously off of the work of others.

Because that's what you're doing. In spite of whatever obvious (or ulterior) motives you have for doing this the bottom line is that you are making a profit off the work of hundreds - thousands of other who give of themselves freely.

You are parasitic to the event.

Your idea is anathema to the event and contributes absolutely fucking NOTHING to it save for some artificially manufactured pretentious, semblance of creativity and spontaneous generosity from the comfort of a catered RV. Do you charge extra for wiping the asses of your customers?

What you propose is to vicariously suck off the energy and creativity of others under the pretense of 'providing to those who might not ever experience the event.'

I have had a wonderful conversation with a fellow Burner who has been since 2000. He came up with a suggestion that I like very much. When I do my proposals I figure X many dollars for profit in the work I do and I also figure a percentage for unforeseen costs. I am thinking that all that is left from unforeseen costs should go to a fund to provide for future theme camps.

It would not be fair for me to come in and swoop up on all the tickets at the lower level.

Considering the potential profit you stand to make from this abomination it certainly wouldn't be fair.

Of course, I fully expect to read the requisite reply that the profit motive is not the driving reason behind your entrepreneurial parasitism. Rather, I suspect we'll be on the receiving end of some smarmy, feel-good justification of how you feel a compelling need - a drive - to introduce others to the wondrous nature of Burningman.

To which I'll skip ahead and ask would you feel so motivated if someone challenged you to make a percentage of your spots available for individuals in economic dire straits. Would you make them free or at a radically reduced price? You know, something like the event does or municipalities demand of individuals (or corporations) who stand to profit tremendously off of the work of others.

Because that's what you're doing. In spite of whatever obvious (or ulterior) motives you have for doing this the bottom line is that you are making a profit off the work of hundreds - thousands of other who give of themselves freely.

You are parasitic to the event.

Your idea is anathema to the event and contributes absolutely fucking NOTHING to it save for some artificially manufactured pretentious, semblance of creativity and spontaneous generosity from the comfort of a catered RV. Do you charge extra for wiping the asses of your customers?

What you propose is to vicariously suck off the energy and creativity of others under the pretense of 'providing to those who might not ever experience the event.'

Well, fuck that.

You are a bug and I hope your endeavor fails miserably.

I am sorry you feel this way. It seems emotions are still running high for this is a new concept for some. Although this is not a new concept, I am the first to stand before you all with the idea. I think you should take a day to vent and come back to the table when you aren't so upset.

Uh boy! Is it ok to make money on Burning Man? Hmmm....well I do it. I flip bikes. It's how I earn money for the Burn.

But, I wouldn't consider this offer to be in the spirit of the event. Let's try a litmus test. Here are the 10 Principles of Burning Man, and how imho they are or are not honored in this offer.
Radical Inclusion - Um not really if the point is to do this with you and 10-20 of your closest friends...infact seems pretty in-crowd to me

Gifting - Doesn't seem to promote this, or at least it's not included in the package
Decommodification - um...no. I think of the Playa as a place we create the best party on earth...not buy our way in.

Radical Self-reliance - not even close

Radical Self-expression - well if you're willing to buy your way into the Burning Man experience I suppose that's a form of self expression as is spending a shit load of money to do so. However, is it radical? I say only if it's your last $95K. So I'll give this a maybe.

Communal Effort - um...no, not even close
Civic Responsibility - if they were dealing with their own trash, or maybe buying the package and then giving that opportunity to people who are challenged with radical self reliance, such as those who are differently-abled, then maybe, but not likely.

Leaving No Trace - presuming that the vendor does this, sure. I'll give them this one.

Participation - so this is subjective. How do we define participation. If they stay in the touring bus the entire Burn, then no. They go out among the little people, well yes, that's technically participating, but not on the same level as say someone who works 8 shifts over 7 days as a volunteer, or someone who builds a kick ass Jazz Club at Center Camp every year. I'll give this a maybe to sure.
Immediacy - again, this is subjective. Who's to say that when said participant leaves the shelter of their paid for comfort that they won't randomly meet the most amazing person who changes their life for ever. At least one can hope.

IMHO its a piss-poor-pussy way to do the Burn. But they are the ones who lose out on a real opportunity to be truly radical. And then they lose the money as well. Suckers!