Great thread, Matt, but I noticed some information in your first post that doesn't seem quite right. The lute and guitar share a common ancestor, the oud, but coexisted for a very long time. In the 15th century, the lute had become very popular in europe, but the vihuela (a guitar shaped instrument played and tuned like a lute) evolved presumably due to a dislike of muslims in Spain during that time. In the 16th century, the 4 course (8/7 strings) renaissance guitar had come to be and was exceptionally popular. It was used mostly for strumming to accompany singers and was considered to be of a lower class than the vihuela (vihuelas and lutes were plucked, not strummed).

The 5 course (9/10 strings) baroque guitar came later in the 17th century with makers like Sellas, Stradivari, and Voboam creating some of the highest quality instruments at the time. By the late 18th and early 19th century, the guitar lost it's courses, gained a string and entered into the romantic period. Makers like Lacote, CF Martin, Stauffer, and Fabricatore were among the most skilled of the romantic builders and built instruments for people like Sor and Giuliani. The modern guitar then came to be in the mid 19th century starting with makers like Panormo and then perfected by Torres.

Anyway, here's a video of one of my favorite classical guitarists, Marc Teicholz playing an all original 1867 Torres.

Just some background on the guitars maker, Torres is essentially the father of the modern classical guitar. He combined things like a larger plantilla and fan bracing, as well as contributed a unique Spanish aesthetic that is still central to the classical guitar. On average, little has changed since Torres in regards to the structural design of classical guitars (save for most modern guitars having larger plantillas) and his instruments are the classical guitar equivalent to the instruments of Antonio Stradivari.

Of the 300 or so instruments Torres is believed to have built, an estimated 90 are thought to still be in existence in some form or another.

I noticed some information in your first post that doesn't seem quite right. The lute and guitar share a common ancestor, the oud,

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You are quite right!

I am concentrating on the lute's evolution to the classical guitar, from a repertoire point of view, in that the music has transferred from one instrument (the lute) to the other (the modern day classical guitar) and shares the umbrella term 'classical' these days (Dowland, Byrd being played by a lot of classical guitarists as well as Lute players in recital rooms). But thanks for the info, the Muslim theory is a sad one and with today's division, forgive the pun, but strikes a chord even more!

Edit - I will pm you, but with your permission, perhaps we could expand the original post by adding this aspect to it? Cheers Matt

^ I have never heard such a laid back version as Irene Gomez' version of Villa Lobos' Prelude number one -

This is one of the many things I love about classical guitar; 'interpretation'. The pieces have so much to them, both in their construction and also depth of feeling, that there are limitless ways to perform the same piece.

I don't like Irene Gomez' playing in this - and would play it completely differently, but that in itself is the wonder of classical performance! You hear things and think "I would go faster there, slower there - that bit needs more colour etc" and that is why they are them and you are you. I suppose which is why the same recordings of pieces, will always be made, again and again through time, but with the latest artist's fingerprint on it.

So a real case of viva la difference - and also it makes me think of the amazing pianist Glen Gould; he said if you are going to record/perform something, that has already been done, then make sure it is different to all others that already exist, or there is no point in performing. Obviously that excludes people playing solely for pleasure, but I pretty much agree with Mr G!

This fella is still quite controversial, thirty years after his death!!!

My wife's old piano tutor, while admiring his technique and putting his own stamp on Bach, hated how outlandish his approach was.

His softs being VERY soft, louds VERY loud, the use of staccato on both hands and also the tempo choices being just as extreme. Personally I love him - I think he brings Bach alive and I can't listen to a lot of the many similar (which to me) are middle of the road safe versions.

As a classical guitarist, him and Julian Bream are two guys that have really left a mark on my classical playing. Just like Randy Rhoads has on my rock guitar playing and Jimmy Rosenberg and Django have on my gypsy jazz playing!

Just like creator gods, the masters breathe the image of themselves into the fabric of the timeworn elements. Each a different incarnation carrying the dynamic flavors of the moments in which their creators felt compelled to translate from their hearts.

had this guys 'pumping nylon' ! book sitting in my cupboard for ages, gonna start working through it, not sure why I never started when i got it....

is there any difference between a spanish guitar and a classical guitar
was buying strings yesterday and saw one exactly like mine, the guy at the shop said it was a spanish guitar, not a calssical guitar
is that right ?

also - what's the name of the little white (plastic?) bit that sits in the slot of the bridge ?

had this guys 'pumping nylon' ! book sitting in my cupboard for ages, gonna start working through it, not sure why I never started when i got it....

is there any difference between a spanish guitar and a classical guitar
was buying strings yesterday and saw one exactly like mine, the guy at the shop said it was a spanish guitar, not a classical guitar
is that right ?

also - what's the name of the little white (plastic?) bit that sits in the slot of the bridge ?

is there any difference between a spanish guitar and a classical guitar

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It is interesting you say this because I introduce it to pupils as a Spanish guitar and not a classical guitar, because a lot of youngsters I have found have an already preconceived idea of 'classical' as something that is very hard, possibly boring and something they think they will not like.

I say 'Spanish' guitar and start showing them all the different tones and talking of the exciting and exotic composers' names, it seems to capture their imagination!

With all pupils, even rock guitar ones, if they are complete beginners, I don't even tell the tab exists until about 8 or 9 months into lessons. That way, the hardest thing has been done (to learn how to music read) and then I introduce tab as a way to scribble ideas in a short hand...

In the late 90's when I started teaching properly, I noticed that tab and then music, would cause reluctance as music seemed so hard compared to how easy tab was!