Hi. I haven't been on the boards since a failed treatment in December. Since then I've been having problems with my old friends. I'm OK with my newer friends, it just seems to be my long-term good friendships that are getting difficult.

One friend in particular had a baby in January and is pregnant again already, and although she knows what I've been through, just kept bombarding me with baby photos through the post and letters and texts with nothing but her new baby on her mind. While I was on my 2 week wait she sent me an email listing 50 great things about having children. The final straw was when I texted her to wish her happy birthday and got a message back asking if I could think of any names for her unborn baby girl. A week later it was my birthday and she sent me a card she'd made with a photo of her baby on it and lots of photos of her baby inside. In the end I couldn't take anymore and texted her to say I was finding all her baby photos etc a bit much to take given my circumstances. I haven't heard from her since.

Other friends ring me and I just can't bring myself to answer the phone because I can't face having conversations about their children/babies/problems with babies/. I regularly speak to my oldest and best friend on the phone, she doesn't have children, is waiting for the right man to come along. She tries and mostly manages to be kind and tactful but even she sometimes upsets me by saying things like 'when I have babies you can feed them and wipe their bottoms and babysit while I go out' and I just think I really don't want to wipe your babies bottoms thanks, if I'm not getting the chance to wipe my own baby's bottom and enjoy the nice bits as well what makes me think I'd want to do the elbow work for yours?

I'm sorry to rant on but needed to get this off my chest somewhere as nobody else seems to understand. I feel like some kind of social pariah these days as none of my friends have been through what I've been through so they can't understand me and it's bad enough not being able to have a child of my own without feeling like I'm losing the closeness I once shared with my friends as well.

Hi
I don't have any answers but wanted you to know you're not alone in feeling like this. I have some friends I just don't see anymore, they have children and their lives revolve around them, mine doesn't. None of them have been through ivf so they don't understand how it feels to see them with their children and hear them complain about sleepless nights, not losing the weight afterwards etc. If only...
I am lucky in that most of our friends do not have children and those that do had them some time ago, so there are very few babies around now. Especially being 40 now means that people don't ask anymore, they just assume we never wanted children.
I think if I had written down all the tactless things people have said to me I would have enough for a book by now, even my sister who is supposed to understand, who also used to do the "do you want to change the nappy?" thing. Even after all this time, I still have days when I just want to burst into tears because of something someone has said, even if not directed at me, just peoples assumption that if someone wants a baby then just go right ahead and have one.
Anyway, that probably didn't help much, sorry. Come back and rant all you like, at least you know people on here will understand.
Lots of love
Kat xx

Thanks you two. I felt much lighter for getting that rant off my chest! It's so helpful to be able to come and let off some steam where other people understand .

Perhaps we could write a book Kat.... People are forever asking me if I'm planning on having kids or why I haven't got any. Some bloke at a bus stop (a complete stranger) even asked me if I had kids and when I said no started ranting on about how I should have some and how great it is being a parent, it's the best thing he's ever done and I should get on with having some. It was a crowded bus stop and everyone was listening. I could hardly announce to him and about 15 other people that, actually I can't have them and I've tried IVF. And why the hell should I have to. I was so gobsmacked I just stood there feeling furious, embarrassed and on the verge of tears.

Another tricky one is when people ask me if I want kids. What do you say to that?...

I told one girl in my village that I'd tried IVF and it hadn't worked and she went over the top gushing about how sorry she was and she felt so sorry for me that she'd start a fund to pay for me to try again. Then she told me that everyone had thought I was a stuck up ***** because I didn't have any children (?) (Do people just assume you're too selfish to bother?) but that as it was actually that I couldn't have them, that was OK. Needless to say I haven't spoken to her since.

Kat, at 35, most of my friends had kids when they were young and their children are in their teens now (in fact I'm Godmother to one of them) so I thought I'd escaped all the baby talk, but they seem to be having a second wind and having babies again!

Sorry I seem to have worked myself up into my own second wind of ranting again. There aren't any answers but it feels good to know you're not alone.

They're awful aren't they those insensitive questions that people ask. Whilst I've once or twice managed a "I can't have kids" when people have asked, its generally left me an emotional wreck. Now I just about have an answer if people ask if I want/ wanted children along the lines of, "I'd have loved them, but it didn't work out that way" which so far has worked in giving people the clear message that not having children isn't my choice without having to go into detail.

Hi Everyone
Just had to say that I don't really have any good techniques but would advise to play it by ear about what you say to whom, you get a little bit instinctive on this one as time goes by I think!

The bottom line I find is that most people just do not get it and will NEVER get it! It constantly amazes me how wrapped up in themselves some people are. Basically if everything in their little world is o.k. then they are blind to everything and anyone else.

I try and feel sorry for people like that because it is not how I want to be and I honestly think that you make a better parent and person if you can see further than the end of your nose, so to speak!!

as you can see from my signature, i've had many failed attempts. we haven't given up yet, i'm having a laparoscopy in a couple of weeks but obviously it's looking very unlikely that we'll ever get a +ive and we'll have to stop at some point.

recently i've been trying to come to terms with never having a child and i can sympathise so much with all of your comments. i don't think you should avoid the truth though - why should you try and protect these people at bus stops etc who are making you feel so uncomfortable?
i would just tell them that you can't have children and let them try and pull their feet out of their mouths. i hate these people who assume everyone can have kids if they want them.

my worst recently was a "friend" saying they weren't going to start trying yet cos she wanted to have her baby at a certain time of year - she just assumes she can conceive at any time, to order.

What i hate even more than all these people around me having babies is when they hide things from you to "spare your feelings" but then you find out from someone else that they are expecting and eveyone knows but you and you feel like such a freak. i can't stand that!

If someone asks me I just smile and tell them it is not that easy for everyone. That soon shuts them up believe me!

My husband and I have not kept our problems a secret and all our friends/family know about our treatment and in general are massively supportive. I am going to be slightly more discreet about cycle 2, as other people's disappointment has been nearly as crushing as my own.

My very best friend in the world is due to give birth in 4 weeks and we have discussed how we both feel, but I can honestly say I am so excited and can't wait to be part of the baby's life. I think she worried about telling me - that did make me cross, but since then it's fine. I even threw her baby shower last week.

I do have another friend who is due at the end of August and I could have truelly stangled her! She was telling me 2 days after my BFN that she knows just how I feel, it took her 3 months to concieve both of her babies! I just changed the subject.

I know it's frustrating, but unless they've been through it, they really have no idea and most of the time don't know what to say.

Hi Ellie, thank you so much for starting this thead. I can relate to it so much!

I met my husband five years ago and moved from Manchester to Germany to be with him. Up until then, I had a lot of friends without kids, or older ones with older kids. Then I move to Germany, get married, find out about my problems conceiving, and the worst thing is, that EVERYBODY we know, has kids, is currently pregnant, or is planning to get pregnant. Noone seems to be having, or has had problems. I've been very open about my circumstances, but noone seems able to cope with talking to me about them. I've had to get used to the silences, awkward questions and being shut out of conversations. Its my fault too, that I've shut myself off. You just feel completely detatched from civilisation, because everywhere you are, you see families, babies, pregnant women, and you dream about joining their club as it were, so you can stop being "the freak".

I just had my second negative yesterday, so its great to get this off my chest. Here's a heart-stopping experience: whilst I was going through the usual emotions, crying fits, feelings of inadequacy and wanting to give up etc, I was texting my close friends (who arent pregnant!). In the middle of it all, I get a text from a friend's husband telling me that she had had her second bundle of joy at 9am that same day. Can anyone beat that?

It is a very difficult business. I'm just glad I have still have a couple of friends that arent pregnant yet, and a few gay ones, that arent likely to!!

I can definatley relate to everything thats been said. I even get comments from my 6year old niece about why I don't have kids. She's sweet though and I love her. It still hurts to hear. I honestly told her that I wanted them I just could'nt. She said then maybe I would have one in my belly before my next birthday.
I had also posted a message before I have found out my sister is pregnant with her fifth child. She complained to me prior how she thinks hecheated on her. Lovely. Anyway my other sister slipped it out and then acted like I was a child and tried to deny that it was happening. Then I don't want to go to any family function because some of the uncaring ones will state to others I should get over it and someone else will be dumb enough to tell me who said it.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I honestly feel like staying away from people or moving just so people don't ask me anymore questions and tell me to get over something I don't think I ever will. That is unless some miracle chance I have a child.
Thanks for allowing me the chance to vent
Lisa
I'll be turning 34 in November

I really am not yet at the life after IVF stage ... yet... I am trying to stay optimistic, but for the first time my DH and I have started to realise there is a possibility that it may not happen... Thank goodness we are finally taking a break and going over to Europe for 10 days...

People get to me too--- and to DH. He keeps commenting in bewilderment about how easily people get pregnant... bang! I have also had the "planner" who was discussing how she was surprised she got pregnant the same month she started trying-- she really thought it would take a couple of months and that way she could have her baby as soon as she finished grad school. Well, she's juggling a dissertation and a baby now, but with a huge smile!

I on the other hand, was also hoping to have a baby by the time I finished my dissertation...failed IUI.. then a cancelled IVF... then poor response, but tranferrewd 2... BFN last week...

The thing that gets to me is, we have been trying the whole 4 years I was doing my PhD... but people seem to think I am so focussed on my career that we are postponing.... The last 6 months I got the most comments-- NOW you and DH can plan, since you're almost done; WHAT? You want to start a post-doc? (to imply- when are you going to slow down, relax and have babies). I get the RELAX suggestion a lot too. Man, I am not Type A, unless the situation demands it. I am pretty laid back and like to enjoy my home and people I am close to... anyway... we live in a pretty slow-paced town--plenty of relaxation here. My husband's uncle brings it up EVERY time he talks to me- we will come and visit you when you have a baby... that really bothers me now.

We haven't told anyone about the treatments, but after this last failed IVF, DH for the first time, while talking to family members/friends, said "we don't know when/if the kids are in the picture" while discussing things like future plans, etc. He never said that before. I still find it difficult to say "if".. and like to hide behind the "when"!!!

ANGELA- I found you here. I am sooo sorry about your BFN. I missed you on our forum. Please keep in touch through this process....

I am on my 4th treatment, but doesn't look like it'll go due to lack of response. I am on the verge of just quitting--I am getting tired of the heartache and the big letdowns--sometimes not even getting to the point of egg transfers or in this case even an egg retreival. I too get tired of all the questions about when are we going to have kids. Some of my friends know about the difficulties and while they don't really talk about me not having kids, I get tired of hearing about how difficult it is to do things w/ 2 small kids 2.5 and under. I want to reach through the phone and shake them and say to them that they should feel lucky and blessed to have these kids. This one particular friend who has the 2 kids then complains about the work even said to me once that she didn't want to tell me she was pregnant because of my situation. It's part of nature that others will have kids.... Just because I can't won't stop others from having them. It's just that they don't know how insenitve they are...

Hi Guys,
I just read this thread and wanted to agree that it is extremely, extremely difficult to cope with disappointments. We have been trying for 7 years, it was a long journey, 4 failed IUIs, one failed IVF ICSI. We have not told anyone when we were going through those tretments. Unfortunately nobody can truly understand, unless they went through the same psocess themselves. And yes, people. do get cought up i their own lives and think that if it was easy for them, it should be easy for you.

I want to wish you all good luck in whatever you do, you are VERY strong women and i admire you for that!!!!
Vlada Ps Also, please don't give up hope. there is alwys a light at the end of a tunnel, one way or another.

I have a friend who never wanted children until recently. When she started ttc, she was having trouble. After 1 year she went to her dr to get 'checked out' Comes back that she has male and female infertility issues. She tried 5 IUI's with no luck. She was thinking about IVF but didn't know if she really wanted to spend 'that kinda money' on the procedure. I am then thinking, it made no difference to me how much it would cost (the first time) I wanted it too bad not to try. Anyway, she tries her final IUI before trying IVF and gets pregnant. All she does now is complain about everything. I feel like she just didn't get it.. that this may not have happened for her at all and makes me think she figures it was just something she was supposed to do and not something she really wanted as badly as we did and do. She is the only real friend that I keep in contact with regularly because all my other friends just didn't understand what I was going through when I started my journey through IVF and we all just kinda drifted. Same reasons, they all had children when they decided they would. They didn't understand that it just doesn't come easy for everyone.
I've heard the 'selfish because she don't have kids' line many times before. I've had friends keep things such as pregnancies from me to 'spare' my feelings when in the long run it hurts more. I've even had 2 brother in laws offer to 'help me out'! Sick people. What comes around, goes around. THey'll have a problem that people won't show any real sympathy for one of these days.
I also have to add that i have met some strangers that I have told my story to that were in awe of what we had to do and what we went through when for some it happens so naturally.

Now and then I visit this site (you can read my story somewhere over here) to remind me of your struggle.

And it was a hard struggle, that is why I call you strong women!

For me, being a woman so much wanting a child and undergoing a record of treatments, I recognize so much of your stories.

Now, having a baby, and still in contact with a lot of women who were not as lucky as I am, I find myself often thinking of you and talking for you.
I do not want to forget the women who are left emptyhanded, I tell everyone how difficult it is, how frustrating and how painfull.
Whilst I was without child, I was open about my frustrations, no one really asked me if I did want children for I -as soon as the topic was children- always told them I wanted children very very much but that we were on the track of IVF and that IVF is the last station...

Please realise that childlessness is the biggest fear of almost every woman and man.

What I represented, and what you do now, is scary, that is why people do not know how to react...

That is why my sister e.g. started to cry when she told me when she was pregnant.
That is why she wanted me to hold her baby, that is why my friend wanted me to think with her of babynames, they wanted to share
(I did not want to share!!! I wanted a baby of my own!) to comfort me.

There is No Comfort in somebody elses baby.
(not for me!! although after a failed IVF I wanted to hold my sisters baby, just to get some comfort but it did not work)

I have friends who accepted being childless, who really accepted it.
Thank God for their good natures, for their optimistic views on the world, for their acceptence.
They assured me it got easier with the time.

I do not know in which stage you are in, are you really at the end of trying or are you really at the end.
I do not know.

I do believe now (and I fully understand you when you say... easy to say for you now) that your life will get on, you will always have a week spot, a sorrow, but you will survive. You are strong women.

I do not forget you, I will always make my statement when I hear something brutal or stupid said about infertility.