away from the socalledfiscalcliff. adrastic combination ofmandatoryspendingcutsand tax hikes that could plunge the united states back into a recession. while there are plenty of hard w0rds from both sides, some terms of a possible zeal are making the rounds. kate bolduan has been following the back and fourth. >> don't get too excited about that, there's only one way to avoid the fiscal cliff. spending cuts and tax hikes. house republicans and president obama need to strike a deal on reducing the national debt. they have soundly rejected a white house offer that included $1.6 trillion in revenue, $400 billion in medicare and other entitlement savings, as well as a permanent increase in the debt limit among other things. so far, the rhetoric has not softened. treasury secretary tim geithner arriving on capitol hill for high level talks, most notably with house speaker john boehner. >> good morning, everyone. >> how did it go? just listen. >> despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious. about real spending cuts. >> a

because of the impasse and also the fact that the consequences ofthefiscalcliff, thesespendingcutsand these tax -- pardon me the spending cuts and the tax increases that kick in here at the end of the year, the consequences are very dire and following the election the white house and democrats think that they can really push republicans into a corner here. >> brianna keilar for us. thank you. just ahead we're going to be talking with connecticut senator richard blumenthal will join us to talk a little bit about the democrats' responsibility about this impending fiscal cliff. another story we're following, friends and family of kansas city chiefs jovan belcher looking for answers this morning after he killed his girlfriend and then took his own life. his team took to the field just a day after the tragedy. it was i guess kind of a somber victory. they beat the carolina panthers 27-21. just their second game of the season. saturday morning belcher shot his 22-year-old girlfriend kasandra perkins and then turned the gun on himself outside the practice facility. he and perkins leave b

, protect american jobs, and protect the middle class fromthefiscalcliff. butwithoutspendingcutsand entitlement reforms, it's going to be impossible to address our country's debt crisis. and get our economy going again and to create jobs. so right now, all eyes are on the white house. the country doesn't need a victory lap. it needs leadership. it's time for the president, congressional democrats, to tell the american people what spending cuts they're really willing to make. with that i'll take a few questions. >> speaker boehner, why will you not tell democrats what specific spending cuts you would like to see, especially within en titlements? >> it's been very clear over the last year-and-a-half, i've talked to the president about many of them. you can can look at our budget. where we outline very specific proposals that we passed in last year's budget and the budget from the year before. we know what the menu is. what we don't know is what the white house is willing to do to get serious about solving our debt crisis. >> so your 2011 position still stands then? are you still o

over thatso-calledfiscalcliff. taxhikesandspendingcutskick in if no agreement is reached between the house and republicans on how to close the budget gap. it has been more than two weeks since president obama invited the major players to the white house to discuss the situation. as of this morning, no new talks are scheduled. brianna keilar joins us. so many republicans say they are pessimistic about a deal happening in time to avert this fiscal cliff. some say it's for political reasons. what can you tell us? >> it may all be for political reasons. that's no surprise in washington. as you can seen through dealmaking not just on this but things in the past couple of years between the white house and congress, there is almost this rhythm that has evolved. both sides are pointing to the other for an impasse. republicans like senator lindeyy graham just slamming the white house and tim geithner for a plan he laid out on behalf of the administration, laying out about $1.6 trillion in new revenues coupled with only about $400 billion in medicare cuts. listen to what graham sai

house is in fact open tohavingspendingcutsas part of this discussion inthefiscalclifftalks.i think what is going on here is the white house heard the criticism and they are trying to breathe some new life into these talks. politico reported there was a phone call between the president and speaker boehner. they claim it was curt as in a short call that did not go well. jay carney just pushed back and said it was a 28-minute phone call. he said it was frank and direct. and it was good, it was positive. they believe, the white house does, that they are making progress. but i pressed jay carney. i said will spending cuts be included? and here is what he said. >> can you hold up that budget, look in the camera and say to your fellow democrats on capitol hill, vote for and include some of these spending cuts in this deal to avoid the fiscal cliff? because that's not what they are doing. should they include those? >> yes. and i know that democrats accept that there -- this has to be a balanced package that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> reporter: so news the white

with congressonspendingcutandotherfiscalcliffdetails.the first meeting will be tomorrow on the hill. >> pelley: major, president said today he thought all this could be done by christmas. why does he think so? >> reporter: because that is the big takeaway, scott, from the president's conversation on saturday with house speaker john boehner. the two agreed it was in foeryone's best interest to get a fiscal cliff deal sooner rather than later, both agreed to aim for one before christmas, but they also acknowledged, scott, it will be very difficult to achieve that. >> pelley: thank you, major. will the president's team find a receptive republican congress? nancy cordes is on capitol hill for us tonight. nancy. >> reporter: well, scott, one top republican aide actually told me today that he sees these talks as one-sided, that republicans have been making all the proposals, and speaker boehner said he's still waiting for a balanced offer from the white house. >> republicans are willing to att revenue on the table but it's time for the president and democrats to get serious about the spen

doors and figure how they get past january and how they avoidthisfiscalcliff, notonlythespendingcutsand tax increases but spending cuts particularly in defense. they don't want that. >> explain why what they agree on -- namely that the middle class, 98% of all taxpayers, that their taxes will stay the same, they will not go up. if everyone agrees at least on that, the president says, go ahead and pass that. why not just eliminate the 98% who won't have any changes, those making under $250,000? why not allow that to go forward? why are the republicans resisting on that. >> it could wind up there, wolf. but if the republicans lose that, they believe they kind of lose the leverage that they have. if they sort of give on that, then where's their leverage with the white house? so i think that in the end, wolf, if i had to bet -- and i don't like to bet on these things because they always disappoint -- but i would have to say that the one thing they are all likely to do at some point is to make sure the taxes do not go up on the middle class. but in order to do that, republicans want

. >>> call itthefiscalclifffollies,because with 28 days remaining before massive tax hikesandspendingcutskick in, democrats and republicans are ridiculing each other's ideas. it's a recipe for recession. the gop offering up its first plan which calls for $2.2 trillion in deficit savings over the next decade, including $800 billion in tax reforms, 600 million in medicare reforms and spending cuts. but the president rejected it outright because it does not contain tax hikes for the rich. time is running out. any sign of serious negotiation on the horizon? >> i'd say on the horizon, that would be fair. the log jam that you're watching, we're expecting to continued likely until next week. so don't be surprised if you see that. i think the policy prescriptions here, what needs to be done to find a package for deficit reduction are clear. right now you're watching the politics play out. all you need do is open your ears, listen to the white house, listen to congressional republicans you'll hear them playing the blame game. >> making vague promises about achieving revenue through capping d

onthisfiscalcliffwhichhas automatic tax hikesandspendingcutsas of january one, they are trying to avert that. he says any deal on this must include an end to the debt ceiling all together. he wants complete power to raise the country's limit by himself. he doesn't want to have to get congressional approval. that is a demand stirring strong response from republicans today. >> the on way we ever cut spending is by using the debate over the debt limit to do it. now the president wants to remove that spur to cut all together. of course, it gets in the way of his spending plans. i can assure you it one happen. the american people want washington to get spending under control and the debt limit is the best tool we have to make the president take that demand seriously. the american people want us to fight to cut spending. it's a fight they deserve and a fight we are happy to have. >> joining me now, simon rosenberg. and mark theisen. guys, welcome. simon, let me start with you on this. we did have some democrats come on the show and say no, the president doesn't get to just decide when to rais

if this is not good enough for the white house, we will go overthefiscalcliff. >>this is a compromise on taxes. this is a compromise on mandatory spending. and it's a compromise on discretionary spending over what the select committee had debated. >> i should mention that erskine bowles has put out a statement himself. while i'm flattered the speaker would call something the bowles plan. the outline in the letter the speaker sent to the president does not represent the bowles simpson plan, nor is it the bowles plan in my testimony on deficit reduction. i simply took the mid point of the public offers, put forward during the negotiations to demonstrate where i thought a deal could be reached at the time. he's very much backing away from speaker boehner's letter. the question i wanted to ask you is some of the details, as you know, it's all in. >> can we spin one more point on that? >> absolutely. >> here's speaker boehner who is taking a mid point on the compromise between the two sides and offered it, and it's already flatley rejected? >> i think he may be rejected, sir, if i may -- >> i'm not

're not having a conversationaboutspending. therepublicans and democrats alike designedthefiscalcliff. it'sa series of bipartisan compromises and i think it's kind of foolish to think that this group of congressmen and senators is going to come up with a way out of something they themselves designed. >> rich, you worked for a republican speaker who went up against a democratic president over the spending issues. back then the face-off didn't turn out all that well for your party. obviously very different era. do you agree with eric's take? is the right strategy for republicans to stick to their guns, forget about compromise? >> no. i really don't -- eric is one of my favorite people. we talk a lot. but i think that, and i did work for the speaker gingrich during the shut-down fight in '96, and it did not work out well for republicans. the president has a much bigger bully pulpit than the speaker does. newt gingrich's bully pulpit was pretty big back in those days but at some point, republicans in the house -- and i think boehner is trying to look for ways to do this, speaker boehner, tha

to zoraida sambolin for an update on the day's top stories. >> soledad,thefiscalcliffdebacle,with 28 days remaining before drastic tax hikes and spending cuts take effect, a republican spending plan has been rejected by the white house. brianna keilar is live from washington. what now, brianna? >> well, right now it's about the pressure building and the clock kicking, zoraida. as house republicans in the white house try to ultimately broker a deal between two very different plans. house speaker john boehner's counteroffer, if you take a look at the headlines from this $800 billion in what would be savings from tax reform. so that is new tax revenue. but not done by increasing income tax rate on the wealthiest. but instead by closing tax loopholes, eliminating tax credits. and also $600 billion in health savings. that's what you'd get from entitlement reform. from reforming medicare, and doing some cuts there under this plan. but compare it to the white house plan, very different than what's on the table there. $1.6 trillion in new taxes. that is two times the amount in the boehner pl

of about 9% across defense and alldomesticspending. thatisthefiscalcliff. weshouldn't be dealing with other issues that are long term in order to avert the cliff as it were. that is immediate crisis. we have long term situation --. bill: but you know when lawmakers get a little bit of rope, you know, when they get time to think about it and push it off to the next year, it never gets done. this budget proposal, there are many who wonder whether or not even democrats could support it. the last budget that came from the white house went to the senate, it went 98-0 against it. no one voted for it. melissa: well, that was kind of a tricky parliamentary issue as well but, i do take issue with one thing, the idea we haven't dealt with entightments. we had two years, a year and a half we debated medicare. we made significant changes in medicare. we just had a campaign which republicans including governor romney time after time after time charged that we had cut $616 billion in spending out of medicare and we reformed the program. we have looking toward new ways to compensate providers.

cuts that would be imposed bythefiscalcliffwouldbe devastating. it would send unemployment higher. it would cost jobs. the republicans, as peter says, are going to insist on some cuts anyway, so bottom line is we are going to see a weaker economy into the beginning of next year. probably one way or the other. now, the counter to that, peter, is that there are forces in the economy that are strengthening it. this energy boom that we've got, the natural gas, the amount of fracturing that we're doing, the fact that housing has been doing tremendously well, and interest rates remain very low with prices, so there's some sense that there's a bit of a renaissance on the horizon, and if the government doesn't mess that up too much, 2013 could end up being as good as 2012 if not a little better. i don't know if you completely disagree with that, peter, but i think there's enough good going on that it could offset the bad. >> to you think it could go up to 10% unemployment. do you agree with peter on that? >> i don't know. i don't know if it will go go up to 10%. there are two scenarios. o

,spendingcuts.that'swhatthefiscalcliffisall about. it would all start with the start of the new year. i want to get to senator jeff merkley. he's a democrat from the state of oregon. he's on both the budget committee and the banking, housing, and urban affairs committee. nice to have you with us, sir. thanks for joining us. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. before we get to fiscal cliff, let's talk a little bit about syria. there are now reports that they may be loading the components that would make up sarin gas. and i'm curious to know and i think a lot of people are watching this, does this mean that we are headed, the united states is headed into military action considering what we know about the red line, if you will, that hillary clinton laid out pretty clearly? >> it was very important for her to draw a very clear line. because any use of chemical weapons has to be responded to internationally. i'm sure the secretary of state is immersed with russia right now, is in negotiations with russia for a united front against this absolutely unacceptable possibility. >> okay. so she's l

the whitehousefiscalcliffpackage.the white house's proposal to avoid the big tax hikesandspendingcutsthat are going to happen in january, unless something is done. that proposal has come under heavy criticism from republicans who say wasn't serious. how speaker john boehner said he was flabbergasted. mitch mcconnell reportedly laughed out loud and in this debate over reducing the debt, the president is pushing for an additional $255 billion in spending. he wants those higher taxes to spend more, which is leading to some criticism. joining me now is brad blakeman, the former deputy to george w. bush. and chairman of the south carolina democratic party. a deal that is all about the republicans desire to cut back on the debt and deficit -- why would the president be proposing $255 billion in war spending? >> well, he's not. what he is proposing is shifting spending priorities. after those cuts, shifting priorities, and by the way -- this is infrastructure development. this is to make sure that people who have gone the payroll tax relief keep that payroll tax relief and expanding un

overthefiscalclifforwhether a deal is reached to avert that, middle class taxes are going up, and so is spending. so there's a lot of cynicism in this process. >> real quick -- >> that's why the president has the edge. >> bottom line, the republicans are poised to take a fall? is that what your numbers show you? >> they are poised to take a hit on this right now. longer term, tim pact will weigh on the obama administration if the economy doesn't recover. >> all right. many thanks, scott rasmussen, appreciate it very much. >> thanks. >>> with just 26 days until we fall off the tax and fiscal cliff, two dozen house republicans have apparently defected from the boehner plan and signed a bipartisan letter with democrats. people are now asking is there a fallback position for the gop? well, here now to tell us is house majority whip california republican kevin mccarthy, the number three man. mr. mccarthy, as always, thank you for coming back on the show. can i get your comment on this letter, two dozen republicans, they're talking about tax rate flexibility along with a bunch of d

of this is that some people are trying to downplay the affects ofthefiscalcliffsayingif we go over for a few days it will be okay. ceos aren't saying that. you look at third quarter gdp, companies are spending less money on software and equipment because they don't know what's going to happen. the effects of the fiscal cliff are already holding back some things. >> of course. what stood out to me from howard schultz, the people that need it the most, the average american will feel this to the core. confidence is the corner stone. >> it makes you make decisions, big decisions, small decisions. i'm not going to buy that or do that, i'm scared to death. here's my question for the two of you. are more big ceos falling in line with the yes, let's raise the taxes on the 2%? >> if i don't know if a majority. would you say a majority? >> i think they want a deal and people have to make -- it's hard to make compromises. >> we've heard it from goldman sac sachs, warren buffett, schultz. >> big names there. >> they want clarity. the interesting thing to me, the stock market and bond market haven't freaked o

, we should actually have them not leave washington until they fixthefiscalcliff. atleast let's fix the fiscal cliff and make sure that american families aren't faced with possible larger tax bills come january. >> wouldn't it just make you feel better if you didn't feel the real reason we'll get a fiscal cliff resolution, whether it's a little tinkering or something bigger, wasn't because they actually wanted to be home on christmas? >> i think that they absolutely should try to get this done. i certainly don't think they should go home before the situation is resolved. but i also think that when you are looking at what kind of congress we want, we want a responsive congress. we want a congress rooted in american communities, not inside the beltway. >> look, you just want mondays and fridays off, too, and your trying to make the argument to the national review as to why that is better. >> americans want their leaders to work, period. >> thanks to both of you. we appreciate it. of course, we want all your feedback. >>> next, the billionaire software tycoon john mcafee is wanted in t

and we're starting this hour with the wrangling on capitol hill overthefiscalcliff. we'rejust 31 days until the deadline which could potentially trigger $7 trillion in automatic spending cuts and tax increases. both republicans and democrats are at a standoff. they are each blaming the other side for holding up the process, but republican congressman terry lee says that by going over the cliff the president may have an ulterior motive. >> many of us fear that the president's real plan here was to let us go over the cliff and blame the republicans, and that's what we look like we're being set up to do, and then if you go over the cliff, then two months later, a month later, the president can come back with a bill and say, hey, we're going to now since the republicans let everyone's taxes go up, i'm going to ride in here now and be the -- the knight in shining armor and lower the taxes on the lower two brackets. >> it is a case that is sparking painful reminders of trayvon martin, another florida teenager shot to death in an incident that has racial overtones. i'm talking about jordan d

parties taking to the airwaves this weekend, trying to blame each other overthefiscalclifftalk.this is all happening less than a month until accommodation of spending cuts and tax hikes kicks in. right now, it seems like both sides are moving further apart from the deal. here is house speaker john boehner and treasury secretary timothy geithner. >> we are flabbergasted. we have seven weeks between election day in the end of the year. three of those weeks have been wasted. >> we are not going to extend an extension of the tax rates. we think they need to go back to those levels. if you don't do that, you have to ask yourself, whose taxes are we going to raise? were we going to find the money bring a balanced plan in place? jenna: senator lindsey graham, a republican known for reaching across the aisle, not looking at this with a great deal of optimism. >> i think we're going over the fiscal cliff. it's pretty clear that they have made this happen. they are not saving social security and medicare and medicaid from imminent bankruptcy. jenna: james is live in washington with more

for avertingthefiscalcliff. therepublican plan seeks $800 billion through tax reform andmandatoryspendingcuts.the white house said that the republican proposal falls short of what the president wants and cannot be taken seriously. >> we understand they don't agree with everything but we have not seen alternatives for them and they spoke about the need for revenue and that acknowledgment is welcome. but thus far republicann leaders are adament don't believe rates should go up on the top two percent of the american people. the american people disagree. rates have to rise and the republicans need to acknowledge that. >> that's the major difference between the two sides. tax hikes for the rich x. republicans want tax reform and eliminate deductions and closing the loop holes. the president said on twitter, there can't be tax cuts at the rich at the expense of domestic programs. >> the biggest problem with president obama is he is a small-pinded president in big times . he talk about 35-39 that doesn't get us out of debt. >> that is tough rhetoric for senator lindd say graham. the president

fromafiscalcliff? >>congresswoman, i am a financial illiterate, can you explain to me how you have all encompassing tax reform without taking a look at tax rates? >> well, we have. we believe that we need tax reform. we'd like to look at tax rates, we'd like to look at the loopholes, the tax credits. we want a simpler, less costly tax code for america. that's important for middle class families, important for our economy. that is what's going to help get this economy growing again. but we also -- it also republicans believe it has to include the spending. and the way congress has operated in the past, you know, yeah, we'll increase revenue, but then there's never the protections, never the tough decisions to actually cut the spending, reduce the debt, and that has to be a part of this one. >> fair enough. arianna? >> congresswoman, in your thanksgiving message, twice you emphasize the need for jobs, the need for growth, and then you mentioned the deficit. what do you think we should be doing right now to help create jobs and bring about greater growth? >> well, one of the first thi

right now. >>> our country will be heading overthefiscalcliffthatwe ourselves dug and put in our way. it's the set of automatic spending cuts and tax hikes that can only be averted if our nation's leaders are able to display bear bones competence and middle school-level maturity. so is there a deal? >> there's, of course, no deal. >> of course! is there a prospect for a deal? >> there's not a prospect for a deal. >> of course! but the ongoing talks. >> there aren't even very many talks going on. >> you're killing us! give us something. >> but for the first time, there are numbers on pieces of paper from both sides. >> numbers on paper! >>> good morning. it's wednesday, december 5th. welcome to "morning joe." live in the nation's capital. this is exciting. and you know, i said, let's do a show from washington, d.c., because they get so much stuff done there. it's like silicon valley. and going there when steve jobs was really bringing apple to the forefront -- >> a happening place. >> it is. it's where things happen. that's why we're here, steve rattner. >> washington is the place

newsroom, i'm ali velshi. this is "your money." i'm going to tell you what others won't aboutthefiscalcliff.the head of starbucks said it will damage the u.s.'s reputation and shenanigans from capitol hill and with a cool 500 bucks to spend, should you use them now for a share in apple? apple says it will build some of the iconic mac computers in the u.s. listen to what apple ceo tim cook said to nbc's brian williams. >> so we've been working for years on doing more and more in the united states. next year, we will do one of our existing mac lines in the united states. >> but apple stock has been singing the blues for a few months. plummeted 25% off the all-high and a beating this week. 6.5% lower yesterday. apple up more than a percent today. kurndly around $544 a share. is now a good time to get in. you're all asking me. i'm asking katie stockton in connecticut. katie, is apple stock down off its high a phenomenally successful stock to hold for so many investors and showing the chart again. you look at technical trading patterns in the stock. do they tell you it's time to buy, sell

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