It still can be fun. The current design of first person shooters and combat games ( respawn, campaign modes, auto save ) are a negative for this game. Thus the invention of conquest mode in closed public testing. It's a personal choice and a personal preference. Personally, I have enjoyed the basic platform of WoWP ( one and done, small margin error to survive and win ) while others do not. Neither viewpoint is wrong, neither is right. The gaming world dictates to the companies like WG whether their titles will be successful or not by simply playing the game. WoWP was not ruined by three man flights, seal clubbers, MM or anything else. It lost any market share it had to the general design and paradigm differences it had to other combat games in general. It is a title in it's current state that does not appeal to majority of gamers out there enjoying combat arcade/sim platforms. Purists of the WoWP community, like me, will always be frustrated with lost hopes and promises that this game missed. Change is coming, like it or not.

you oughtta see it sometime, it's a sight. A big plane like a '52. VRROOM! There's jet exhaust, fryin' chickens in the barnyard.

Yes, daily missions encourages sealclubbing. It would be nice is T1-2 (maybe even 3) were reserved for true new players. Or players with more than some number of games don't get matched against players with fewer than 50...100...something.

Having said all that, sometimes you can't get a match at a higher than T3 game. Wait time exceeds 4-5 minutes, there isn't a way to play higher tiers.

And rarely have I seen salt in planes. Yes, there was that 1 time flying t8s I think, some of the long time players were having a multigame snit and since they kept showing up in battles against each other it was pretty heated, but nothing like you regularly saw in tanks.

Yup, longest waiting time for me is around 3 minutes. But when I login there are 400-500 players online and the chances being 1 human against 1 human in top tiers is really high. Seems the majority sticks in tier 8.

I haven't played in several months, but I used to play mostly t8 and above, with the exception of my daily missions to get tokens. Sometimes there are a good amount of people in t8 and above, other times there isn't. When the game was 15vs15 humans, there were games I knew I was going to lose, but I still had fun. I can see how new people today would get bored of getting stomped. There are a few in this thread that would whoop me, but over time i got better and gave them some whoopings. Ask the veterans for help, we will give it provided you actually listen and employ it. If you ignore it, we with help you anymore.

If you are trying to complete the daily missions you got to fly and complete the three different tier classifications, 1 - 4, 5 - 7, and 8 - 10. It would be interesting to have different tier(s) break out for the dailys depending on the number of battles you have completed. As an example, over 5,000 battles your three tiers would be 4 - 6, 7 - 8, and 9 -10; over 10,000 battles, tiers 7, 8 and 9, and over 15,000 battles tiers 8, 9 and 10. I think this would also encourage players to work towards getting tier 10 aircraft.

Flying the lower tiers is sometimes fun and a nice change of pace; however, the points you earn are really small compared to the higher tiers.

O.k. - i understand. Doing daily mission in low tier is no sealclubbing.

If a wing of BF110B-Pilots from an wellknown clan with each of them more than 4000 battles with a winrate of more than 80% only on this plane flys again and again in the red team to kill a noob like me in less than 30 sec. they are only doing their daily mission. That must be a very hart mission. Have i understand that corrcectly?

So what can i learn from those battles ? Oh i see: better stop playing T4 and go to T 3 may be is the answer. But if i have done this i find another wing with two FW-57 or F3F.

That becomes boring for me so i often stop the hole playing. Was i only unlucky on that days or what else could be the reason?

Who has an answer to so many noob-quetions?
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Edited by hardy_noob, 26 April 2017 - 01:26 PM.

As Yoda would say: "A long way to become a Jedi it is, but a good Padawan being helps."

O.k. - i understand. Doing daily mission in low tier is no sealclubbing.

If a wing of BF110B-Pilots from an wellknown clan with each of them more than 4000 battles with a winrate of more than 80% only on this plane flys again and again in the red team to kill a noob like me in less than 30 sec. they are only doing their daily mission. That must be a very hart mission. Have i understand that corrcectly?

So what can i learn from those battles ? Oh i see: better stop playing T4 and go to T 3 may be is the answer. But if i have done this i find another wing with two FW-57 or F3F.

That becomes boring for me so i often stop the hole playing. Was i only unlucky on that days or what else could be the reason?

In talking to someone from Wargaming, they said things pretty 'corporately-correct'... but reading between the lines, my understanding is the player base has a tiny but solid core but isn't seeing any growth. Made me think the only reason the game continues is to save face. Possibly understanding was they were going to try and change things and perhaps the game is losing money. Whatever the case, it didn't sound too healthy to me.

I just re-installed the game. Knew I didn't like it before. Re-did some tutorials. Controls seem to be better? Not so quirky.

Alright game time! Oh wait. ...yeah wait. Taking a long time. Hmmm... I've un-installed games for this kind of wait times.

Okay let's go! Let's get some new player perspective.

Minimap! Oh wait, it's pretty much useless. For one, really hard to distinguish ground and air targets at a glance. Why does everything have to be red? Two colors could of made things much more simple and easier.

Next... the level. Enemy over there... oh wait he's in outer space and I just wasted time coming over to this area to intercept. How do you find a damn target to engage? Oh wait, someone's shooting me. Press buttons wildly

to avoid... this isn't working. Dead. Fun. Too bad that didn't last as long as the wait times. Lets try it again. Oh fun... exact same thing. Why is it every time there's that one player getting all the damage?

Alright let's take a break, check out the forums. See responses to other's complaints... you've only played 2000 times blah blah blah. Get good. Seal-clubbing is fair, etc.

Here's the real facts, just flying the damn plane around is hard. The skill factor plays much more heavily into this game then others. So a seal-clubber isn't just having a good game, he's totally dominating

other players. The problem is, he needs those other players to keep this game alive. And he's chasing them out of the game. If someone's wasted 30 minutes in wait-cues for 20 minutes of non-enjoyable

game time, they're going to give up. There isn't this whole, I've just invested money in this, now I've got to see it through.

Personally, I'm not sure to continue. There's other great entertainment options out there, including competition from Wargamings own other offerings. Perhaps I just develop skills so I can have fun clubbing. :0

With regard to Match Maker (MM), I read the post by Eugene Pugach in the Developers Blog that describes how matches are set up/chosen and Lost and others have pointed out some very pertinent facts. The one FacToid that struck me, from Eugene's description of MM, was that the matches are based solely and almost exclusively on Tiers and Class. That means that humans and their stats/skills or even their pilots skills are not factored into the equation art all! It's all just Tears 'n CLass. It's odd that the player statistics are collected, and there are a lot of them, type of plane, how often played, hit ratio, etc., but they are not utilized at all for MM.

When I started playing I thought the algorithm used to set up the teams included human player statistics, like "win rate" or "number of battles" or some other combination of personal statistics, but that is not the case whatsoever and, I believe, this is where an opportunity exists to make the game more "FAIR". This could be an avenue for the developers to explore. Fewer tears?

Another possibility, is similar to WoWS, as has been mentioned, where the player can just stay and play bots till they build their confidence and/or skill level before they decide to go into "standard" battle mode.

BUT, and this is a big BUT! In order to learn, one needs to make mistakes and periodically, that means taking a beating from a more skilled opponent in order to learn- from those humans who came before and figured things out. So there are some relatively easy, do-able, options available to reduce the learning curve, encourage subscription, level out the playing field in all tiers and make the game fair. The question remains, what will Wargaming.net do?

With regard to Match Maker (MM), I read the post by Eugene Pugach in the Developers Blog that describes how matches are set up/chosen and Lost and others have pointed out some very pertinent facts. The one FacToid that struck me, from Eugene's description of MM, was that the matches are based solely and almost exclusively on Tiers and Class. That means that humans and their stats/skills or even their pilots skills are not factored into the equation art all! It's all just Tears 'n CLass. It's odd that the player statistics are collected, and there are a lot of them, type of plane, how often played, hit ratio, etc., but they are not utilized at all for MM.

When I started playing I thought the algorithm used to set up the teams included human player statistics, like "win rate" or "number of battles" or some other combination of personal statistics, but that is not the case whatsoever and, I believe, this is where an opportunity exists to make the game more "FAIR". This could be an avenue for the developers to explore. Fewer tears?

Another possibility, is similar to WoWS, as has been mentioned, where the player can just stay and play bots till they build their confidence and/or skill level before they decide to go into "standard" battle mode.

BUT, and this is a big BUT! In order to learn, one needs to make mistakes and periodically, that means taking a beating from a more skilled opponent in order to learn- from those humans who came before and figured things out. So there are some relatively easy, do-able, options available to reduce the learning curve, encourage subscription, level out the playing field in all tiers and make the game fair. The question remains, what will Wargaming.net do?

We had most of what you just suggested:

Bots were separate from the PVP games, then bots were added to stop 3vs3 games. Why we are in that position is open to debate, but we would have to go back to end of open beta or the first 6 month of release to really get a clear picture of this.

IMO What killed game was a skill/battle MM or exactly what you suggest. It was implemented after tons ( i mean tons) of warning that our population could not support split queues. So we then have really new and veteran players waiting 15 minutes for a 1 vs 1 game, couple that with terrible quality control on the 1.5-1.6 patches and you had a mass exodus. After years of sub par updates and 3 vs 3 games, bots were added. Nobody wanted to play 3 vs 3 in a game that seemed to have a publisher that either didnt know what they were doing or didnt care (both are scary). So while i do think that T1 clubbing is more of a problem then flights of heavies in T9, 300-400 people a night spread over 10 tiers then spread over 2 to 3 groups depending on experience is still not a viable option.

what is a viable option? i really don't know anymore, i thought bots might help the game, instead it increase human head hunting humans (noob or not). At least in the day of full games, you could at least hide behind the rushers, now oh look a human spams F2.

"So I'm a fairly experienced WoT and WoWS player who wanted to try out WoWP because games like Blazing Angels are among my favorite games ever. So I play a few games in Tier 1, and seriously, what is with all the sealclubbing? Why in the holy name of God are there people with freaking clan tags flying a Type 91?! And then the salt that you get...I made a joke about two guys sealclubbing and they literally told me "gtfo of our game". Wow...Now I only got to Tier 4 on WoT PC (I'm primarily a Blitz player with over 13,000 battles) but I never saw anything that rude ever!

Another huge complaint of mine is that once an enemy gets on your tail, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to shake them...

You may have your popcorn now..." Plus the number one trick is not to let people on your tail to begin with...this is a matter of positioning....having the alt advantage means you limit your exposure...also if you hang back a bit from the fight and pick your targets carefully....just diving into the fray will guarantee someone get on your tail and you have to waste time and energy evading them plus you are taking hits....this is not a perfect recipe...you will get jumped but this is one way to limit your risk

So, with the generally low player numbers, it might be time for some players to face the not so pretty music that in fact blaming new players for not wanting to play let's get curb stomped isn't going to retain players any better than removing the co-op option, or handing out prizes for stomping the low tiers. Then again, it could well be that the seal clubbers are the only ones left spending money on this game.

I rarely fly low tiers, usually no lower than t5, (I do really like the hs129) don't really care about tokens.

So, with the generally low player numbers, it might be time for some players to face the not so pretty music that in fact blaming new players for not wanting to play let's get curb stomped isn't going to retain players any better than removing the co-op option, or handing out prizes for stomping the low tiers. Then again, it could well be that the seal clubbers are the only ones left spending money on this game.

I rarely fly low tiers, usually no lower than t5, (I do really like the hs129) don't really care about tokens.

Planes's Co-op pays nothing when you cannot perform...gotta get a better model for that.

Oh wait, the seal clubbers prefer random battles...

WoWP makes a great jousting game...especially with the 262 and people busy in furballs...
I am deaf, silent, and fly with unrealistic controls. Do not count on me to carry - my back's already broken from overweight.

Honestly this game is not even fun to play anymore. Most of the time there is only one other human playing and the rest are bots. I stopped playing a couple years ago because of the klan attitudes and every once in awhile I play again only to be reminded of why I quit playing regularly. Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the maps haven't changed much in the past 4 years or so.

Honestly this game is not even fun to play anymore. Most of the time there is only one other human playing and the rest are bots. I stopped playing a couple years ago because of the klan attitudes and every once in awhile I play again only to be reminded of why I quit playing regularly. Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the maps haven't changed much in the past 4 years or so.

The amount of bots in the battles depends on the time of day and tier. However, there are changes coming up. Conquest mode is right around the corner, and we will be gathering as much sentiment on it as possible.

Honestly this game is not even fun to play anymore. Most of the time there is only one other human playing and the rest are bots. I stopped playing a couple years ago because of the klan attitudes and every once in awhile I play again only to be reminded of why I quit playing regularly. Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the maps haven't changed much in the past 4 years or so.

Actually for me if it wasn't for clans and my solo friends I would of been gone a long time ago

As for the game i can never get tired of rocketing and bombing stuffs......

The main topic doesn't bother me cause I am hardly ever in the low tiers but there are days I feel like giving them a reason to grow up or log off