You are so right.I'm probably getting to be a pain..THANKS. this will be my 2 cruel, I have an LE on order. My now cruel is 15lbs. pin just above, almost bewteen the finger holes a tad towards the ring.The CG is 2 1/8" right of the center of the thumb hole. My new cruel le will be a 14lb. My cruel now is 15lb. and I barely thow it 14mpr.I'll be throwing the le 15mpr., My rev. rate is slow-med. I like it down and in, I guess a little agler.I wish I had more to offer..I came up with these, if you could help me pick one and maybe why..that would be awesome..55x25@3.5"P2 hole,55X30@4"P2 hole,60x20x3.5p2 hole,60x25@3"p2 hole,60x30x@3"p2hole,65x30@3.5p2 hole. I'm pretty sure my tilt is adverage.League adverage 185 on synthetic lanes now. wood in the summer.I'm gunna make it happen!

I,m trying to send a photo, not having any luck. It is the oval that's 2 I/4" to the right of my thumb hole, 6 1/2" from the red pin. I ned a lot of hand in it, or it really dosen't hook that much. Have you seen angelos video(motiv staff) on the Cruel C51 LE, his ball speed and approach are similar to mine and I try for the same results

I totally agree... That's the misstake I don't want to make again... That's what's so great about this. us try to be bowlsers get to talk to guys like you. I tryed to measure my PAP with a tape measure.. I came up with 5 1/8"x 1 1/8 up. That was a first.

You will want to verify your PAP with a bit of tape, it will take a second pair of eyes at the lanes, but place a bit of tape on your PAP and have your assistant make sure the ball revolves around the tape for the first few feet of the lane.

That being said, I'd suggest a 55x25@3.5" for the LE. So far these layouts have been working well with the LE as well, with just a bit more length and finish than the Cruel.

If you need a picture for reference let me know and I can post one up tomorrow.

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