I was asked to create another thread on this topic, so I have. Do you support Affirmative Action and why or why not. Here is my feelings on Vageta's comment on supporting slavery reparations in support of Affirmative Action.

Vageta wrote:

If it makes you feel better, I'm for slavery reparations too.

Reparations?!?! What do you expect that to solve? You think a pile of money will erase the history of slavery? You think reparations will give people back their roots and ancestry? You think money will put a minority class of people above or on level with their major counterparts?

Change must start within. A fool with a little money is a fool with a lot of money. If any group of people who have been unjustly treated in the past can't gather themselves up first, as individuals, they will never reap the same benefits.

That is why you had woman power movements and the black power movements. These were necessary to reverse the brain washing that has been set in society over the years. I'm sorry if you think money is always the answer, but it simply isn't.

We can't change the past, we just have to deal with it and accept it. The bottom line is that white people had decades of experience in the US before black people were even able to do anything. Simply having money will not change that, you have to be taught HOW to spend and invest that money.

When a person receives a "handout", they are still attached to the giver. Once you learn to be an entrepreneur, you are no longer attached and dependent on society to "look out for you". It's the whole "give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, you feed him for a life time".

This is why Tyler Perry is successful. He realized that black people are not getting fair representation in movies and in plays, so he capitalized on that as an opportunity to change that. As a result, more black films are released.

You have a choice. You can be reactive and hope that someone will throw you a bone. Or, you can be proactive and just go out and get it yourself. Relying on affirmative action to make you successful is reactive. What if Republicans are successful at removing it? Now what? While AA is nice in theory and I have no opposition in it as a first step towards success, at the end of the day, it is not the solution. Furthermore, the "good intent" does not remove its discriminatory roots.

I was hoping that this would sub-default, then quietly drift off the first page without a response. **** you, Technogeek. **** you all to ****.

Here's the thing. Everyone complain about me debating the same 3 topics, but every time I bring up something new, no one wants to discuss it. If we do, it dies in a few pages. Yet, we can pop out another 25 pager on DADT.

Uglysasquatch wrote:

Technogeek wrote:

1: Tis is you're $%#*ing fault Omega.

It's actually Elinda "The *****" who's responsible for this.

Omega was the one who mentioned it, then when he talked himself in a corner, he responded with "start another thread", even though he was the one who introduced the topic. This was going to be done without Elinda's post.

Here's the thing. Everyone complain about me debating the same 3 topics, but every time I bring up something new, no one wants to discuss it. If we do, it dies in a few pages. Yet, we can pop out another 25 pager on DADT.

"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin

How exactly should the actions of people that committed crimes well over 200 years ago be my problem. My family and my relatives had nothing to do with slavery in any way shape or form. Should my Oma(grandmother) get war reparations because her husband was put into an interment camp by the ****'s and forced to work during ww2 for two years?

You didn't answer a single question. I thought if I created another thread, as you said, that you would explain on why you think AA is the BEST solution for racial unjust as opposed to the stuff listed in post 1.*

* I really didn't think you were going to answer anything, hence "talking yourself in the corner". You were merely passing it off to another thread, thinking that I wouldn't create it. Well, here it is. Please explain to me in detail how giving money will address everything addressed in post 1.

How exactly should the actions of people that committed crimes well over 200 years ago be my problem. My family and my relatives had nothing to do with slavery in any way shape or form. Should my Oma(grandmother) get war reparations because her husband was put into an interment camp by the ****'s and forced to work during ww2 for two years?

This thread was unnecessary. We don't care about AA or reparations and we don't want to talk about it. We just enjoy poking at you Alma. You're like the half-dead mouse that the cat just can't seem to leave alone and let die.

"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin

This thread was unnecessary. We don't care about AA or reparations and we don't want to talk about it. We just enjoy poking at you Alma. You're like the half-dead mouse that the cat just can't seem to leave alone and let die.

This was very necessary.

It demonstrated that Vageta talked himself in the corner and was to cowardly to admit that he was wrong.

Also, it demonstrated that you all really like arguing about homosexuality. Thanks for pointing out that you don't care about AA or reparations.

I'm glad that you're having fun with this, because it wouldn't be right if it were only me.

This thread was unnecessary. We don't care about AA or reparations and we don't want to talk about it. We just enjoy poking at you Alma. You're like the half-dead mouse that the cat just can't seem to leave alone and let die.

And the whole time the mouse is going "Man, I'm ******* you up cat. I can't believe how much I'm beating you." as the cat is batting it around.

This thread was unnecessary. We don't care about AA or reparations and we don't want to talk about it. We just enjoy poking at you Alma. You're like the half-dead mouse that the cat just can't seem to leave alone and let die.

And the whole time the mouse is going "Man, I'm @#%^ing you up cat. I can't believe how much I'm beating you." as the cat is batting it around.

which is pure catnip to the feline

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Uglysasquatch wrote:

DSD kicked Alma in the *** on another thread over the weekend. Clearly, she kicked too hard as he's obviously still feeling it.

This thread was unnecessary. We don't care about AA or reparations and we don't want to talk about it. We just enjoy poking at you Alma. You're like the half-dead mouse that the cat just can't seem to leave alone and let die.

This was very necessary.

It demonstrated that Vageta talked himself in the corner and was to cowardly to admit that he was wrong.

Also, it demonstrated that you all really like arguing about homosexuality. Thanks for pointing out that you don't care about AA or reparations.

I'm glad that you're having fun with this, because it wouldn't be right if it were only me.

I don't care about any type of sexuality. I just like poking at you. You're such an easy target.

Thanks. I see you were full of trash after all. No where in that comic strip does it address a third party member, especially when there is only 2 people in it.

Also, post 15 only states your opinion on AA, it doesn't state how it's the best solution to the problem.

Post #15 clearly states why I support AA & slave reparations. If you are unable to provide EXACTLY what part is incoherent, then you have no argument about my "inability to communicate".

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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin

You are exactly right. Too bad that wasn't the intent of my post. I already know why you support AA and slave reparations, I'm asking you to support why you believe it is the best solution. You argued that until something was better, AA is the way to go. I'm now asking you to defend that.

Vageta wrote:

If you are unable to provide EXACTLY what part is incoherent, then you have no argument about my "inability to communicate"

As you said. Your post only states why you support AA and slave reparations. It does not state why it is the best solution. You have to explain how waiting for the white guy to stick out his hand is BETTER than the black guy just finding or building a latter. No where in your picture does it illustrate any of that thought process.

You argued that until something was better, AA is the way to go. I'm now asking you to defend that.

Post #15.

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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin

In Texas, we have a state law saying that if you are in the top 10% of your graduating class, then you get automatic admission to all Texas public colleges. They decided to implement this because the Texas legislature decided that there wasn't enough ethnic variety at Texas public schools.

Now, there is certainly more, say, inner-city kids at schools like UT, but we've run into the issue where schools are having to take only top 10% kids because after the kids they are required to take, they simply don't have the room to take anyone else.

The school I wanted to go to, University of Texas, even has had an exception made for them. This past year, they only had to take the top 8% of students, because they are quickly reaching overpopulation. They have ~50,000 students, and no room to grow, being in the middle of Austin. They only made the exception because they predicted that this past year 75% of students would be getting in for this top 10% rule.

Now, you're probably thinking this is fair. Everyone has a the same chance to be top 10% in their school, right? Wrong. I went to a very good public school. Ranked 98 in the country by Newsweek. You think the top 10% at my school, with a graduating class of about 1,000 students was, as easy to get as the top 10% in podunk West Texas? **** no.

My GPA was 3.8. I was rank 300. Top third. That's it. I would be top 10% easy at many other schools in Texas. I was accepted to Baylor, SMU, and many other private schools that didn't have to deal with the top 10 rule. Do I think I would have been accepted at UT if the rule weren't in place? Maybe. I don't know. I'm not arrogant enough to say yes. But I will say that in Texas that rule is an example of affirmative action, and is completely unfair.

The law was even implemented because affirmative action in college admission is illegal. This was a freaking workaround.

So no, I don't' support affirmative action. All men are created equally? Then give us all an equal chance, for crap's sake.

I was actually in a similar situation, having gone to a very good high school (also top 50-100 in the nation, depending on what year you checked the rankings) and totally getting screwed out of the top 10% because that was exactly 7 people in our class of 74.

Over half our graduating class was accepted to UGA, and most of us opted to go there... except our valedictorian and saluditorian, because both of them got free rides elsewhere (the valedictorian went to Harvard on a full scholarship.) Yet the other half of the class didn't even get into UGA because it's so bloody competitive, and at the time having at least a B average in high school meant you got free in-state tuition to any public college.

So I can see how Texas's auto-enrollment issue is ******** y'all over. I'm sorry.

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 10:22am by catwho

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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014

Thayos wrote:

I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

How does a comic strip of a black guy waiting for the white guy to put out his hand address the black guy getting a latter?

Latte? Later? Ladder? WTH? Take a **** English class.

So, when I make a mistake, I have to go take an English class, but when someone else says "Tis is you're", then it's my fault for correcting it because "I should have known"? STFU.

Nilitai wrote:

See post #15.

You understand that it is a metaphor, right?

edit: What am I saying? Of course you don't...

Exactly.

The metaphor shows that the white guy used the black guy to get up top. When the white guy gets up top, the black guy asks for a hand to get on top as well. The white guy complains and says "reverse discrimination".

I perfectly understand the metaphor. That metaphor explains his opinion on AA. His opinion was never in question. Post #15 explains his view quite well and I don't disagree with the post either. That wasn't the concern.

Vageta argued that the best thing for the black person is to stand there hoping and wishing that one day the white guy will stick out his hand and help him.

My counter is that, while assistance is nice, it is NOT the BEST solution. The best solution would be for the black guy to find or build a LADDER.

Ironically, you failed to see that "finding or building a ladder" is a metaphor of self help with education, motivation and self respect. Once that black person has access to a ladder, then he doesn't need to hope for the white guy to extend his hand. He can get on top as he pleases.

What I've asked Vageta to do is to now stand by his statement that waiting for a hand out is better than being independent. That picture does not do that because the words "better" and "best" means that there is a comparison being done. There is no comparison of solutions in that picture.

The metaphor shows that the white guy used the black guy to get up top. When the white guy gets up top, the black guy asks for a hand to get on top as well. The white guy complains and says "reverse discrimination".

I perfectly understand the metaphor. That metaphor explains his opinion on AA. His opinion was never in question. Post #15 explains his view quite well and I don't disagree with the post either. That wasn't the concern.

Vageta argued that the best thing for the black person is to stand there hoping and wishing that one day the white guy will stick out his hand and help him.

My counter is that, while assistance is nice, it is NOT the BEST solution. The best solution would be for the black guy to find or build a LADDER.

Ironically, you failed to see that "finding or building a ladder" is a metaphor of self help with education, motivation and self respect. Once that black person has access to a ladder, then he doesn't need to hope for the white guy to extend his hand. He can get on top as he pleases.

What I've asked Vageta to do is to now stand by his statement that waiting for a hand out is better than being independent. That picture does not do that because the words "better" and "best" means that there is a comparison being done. There is no comparison of solutions in that picture.

He knows that.

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 2:41pm by Almalieque

So long as he doesn't obtain any of the parts of his ladder from a white guy, right? 'Cause that'd be AA!

Your correction was wrong though. It wasn't T'is, it was supposed to be This.

With your correction, the sentence would have said It is is.

Which is why I made the correction!!! Why would I correct "'Tis your"? Him leaving out a letter created another word. "Tis" isn't a common typo, so I assumed that he left off an apostrophe than an "h".

In any case, "you're" isn't the same as "your".

Nadenu wrote:

Uglysasquatch wrote:

Your correction was wrong though. It wasn't T'is, it was supposed to be This.

With your correction, the sentence would have said It is is.

This. Leaving out a letter is not the same as not knowing which word to use. Which is something you do all the **** time.

You mean like "you're" and "your" which was in the very same sentence?

The metaphor shows that the white guy used the black guy to get up top. When the white guy gets up top, the black guy asks for a hand to get on top as well. The white guy complains and says "reverse discrimination".

I perfectly understand the metaphor. That metaphor explains his opinion on AA. His opinion was never in question. Post #15 explains his view quite well and I don't disagree with the post either. That wasn't the concern.

Vageta argued that the best thing for the black person is to stand there hoping and wishing that one day the white guy will stick out his hand and help him.

My counter is that, while assistance is nice, it is NOT the BEST solution. The best solution would be for the black guy to find or build a LADDER.

Ironically, you failed to see that "finding or building a ladder" is a metaphor of self help with education, motivation and self respect. Once that black person has access to a ladder, then he doesn't need to hope for the white guy to extend his hand. He can get on top as he pleases.

What I've asked Vageta to do is to now stand by his statement that waiting for a hand out is better than being independent. That picture does not do that because the words "better" and "best" means that there is a comparison being done. There is no comparison of solutions in that picture.

He knows that.

Edited, Nov 20th 2011 2:41pm by Almalieque

So long as he doesn't obtain any of the parts of his ladder from a white guy, right? 'Cause that'd be AA!

Almalieque on post 1 wrote:

Relying on affirmative action to make you successful is reactive. What if Republicans are successful at removing it? Now what? While AA is nice in theory and I have no opposition in it as a first step towards success, at the end of the day, it is not the solution.

Almalieque wrote:

while assistance is nice, it is NOT the BEST solution. The best solution would be for the black guy to find or build a LADDER