There is no such thing as a premium market. That is something made up by Apple fanboys to justify that Apple has never broken into double digits in the PC arena.

Apple creates and arena and will only play in that arena. If they were that proud of their OS and felt that could support the many hardware options MS supports they would have done it a long time ago. Fact is they can't.

Its not that hard to have the #1 rating in customer service when you are only supporting 9% of the market and have a handful of hardware options.

Premium market my Velocity mirco system cost more then two 27" iMacs. Apple uses the same hardware as everyone else there isn't anything Premium in their hardware, that is a myth that people like you have talked themselves into believing.

Let's see...
90%(sic) of a moribund market, or increasing dominance of the market of the future (mobile internet), and growing. MS dominance of the desktop is due to entrenched monopoly and corporate entrenchment. They have no battle plan to counter the Apple ecosystem and they're scared shitless.
I know which one my money is on.

Do you think the Burger King fanboys bash every new McDonalds for copying their stores and vice versa?

Burger King fanboys, funny...

Although McDonalds and Burger King have a lobby leading to a cashier that has a menu board of food items, that once you get your meal and go to the dining room area and sit at a "booth" or table with chairs to eat, you look around at the aesthetics and that's where McDonalds and Burger King try to make the "same" into their own "atmosphere".

Whereas with Apple and MS, you have Apple for the most part introducing innovations and MS following their lead with a over hyped similar product...

It seems MS is styling its products so much so to mimic Apple's that I guess they hope to confuse the consumer and therefore MS will be satisfied with the crumbs (in sales) that fall off Apple's table (of success)!

Someone help me out...

What is it called when someone can't just be themselves but has to emulate someone else in mannerisms, dress, looks, actions, deeds, etc. in order to feel accepted? Wouldn't a Psychologist believe them to be suffering from poor self-esteem?! Maybe they should see a psychiatrists because they can prescribe medication. Lord know some of the MS execs can use a chill pill every now and then!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash. Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

There is definitely one way Microsoft innovates over Apple that's shown in their store openings, pay a boat load of people to be on site at the opening to mingle with the actual shopper. There's probably close to 100 employes there! Mix in a few dozen photographers and the affiliate representatives and you got a Microsoft party.

MS kept their disaster of a retail outlet in SF open long after it was an obvious failure.
They have the pockets to keep such stores open and filled with 'customers' for as long as they want.

There is no such thing as a premium market. That is something made up by Apple fanboys to justify that Apple has never broken into double digits in the PC arena.

Apple creates and arena and will only play in that arena. If they were that proud of their OS and felt that could support the many hardware options MS supports they would have done it a long time ago. Fact is they can't.

Its not that hard to have the #1 rating in customer service when you are only supporting 9% of the market and have a handful of hardware options.

Premium market my Velocity mirco system cost more then two 27" iMacs. Apple uses the same hardware as everyone else there isn't anything Premium in their hardware, that is a myth that people like you have talked themselves into believing.

I remember Steve Ballmer claiming that Microsoft has now 25% of premium market in Zune players. He described premium market as mp3 players over $250.

Regarding Notebooks it used to be a large number of computers over $1000 but more recently PCs with Windows have been gravitating lower.

There is definitely one way Microsoft innovates over Apple that's shown in their store openings, pay a boat load of people to be on site at the opening to mingle with the actual shopper. There's probably close to 100 employes there! Mix in a few dozen photographers and the affiliate representatives and you got a Microsoft party.

Funny as heck. They even copied the "cheering on the customers" from the Apple Store iPhone introduction. Laaaaaaaame!

can someone please point me to the premium market. I've been hearing that Apple holds the premium market but last time I checked you can purchase or build your own PC for $2,000+ (I'm guessing "premium" comes from the price because Apple's hardware definitely isn't premium) that would wipe the floor with any Mac. And I may be mistaken but they all run Windows. So again, where is the premium market?

Whether youre buying or building your own PC, there are premium options. If you build your PC are you going for the cheap components or going for the more expensive, premium components that may or may not actually provide better tech specs, but be built with higher quality materials and be built to more rigid specs, usually offering a better warranty and better service if there is a problem. This is how the premium has always worked.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

It's interesting... Just thinking about how Microsoft can possibly make these stores profitable. If their real product is Windows, MS Office, etc., how can they possibly become profitable selling and servicing other manufacturer's computers? I have no inside knowledge of their projected profit margins, but this strikes me as a weakness in the retail format for MS.

I'm curious to see how many customers are turned away at Microsoft's "Guru Bar" due to 3-party software and hardware issues which the in-store techs cannot fix.

I wonder if they will transfer all of your data from your Mac to a new PC when you switch to Windows. Believe it or not Apple does do the reverse of that when you buy a Mac. I was in an Apple Store and saw a really old PC on the Genius Bar and wondered wtf? Then the tech started copying the files to the new Mac. I was shocked.

Although McDonalds and Burger King have a lobby leading to a cashier that has a menu board of food items, that once you get your meal and go to the dining room area and sit at a "booth" or table with chairs to eat, you look around at the aesthetics and that's where McDonalds and Burger King try to make the "same" into their own "atmosphere".

Whereas with Apple and MS, you have Apple for the most part introducing innovations and MS following their lead with a over hyped similar product...

It seems MS is styling its products so much so to mimic Apple's that I guess they hope to confuse the consumer and therefore MS will be satisfied with the crumbs (in sales) that fall off Apple's table (of success)!

Apple has copied MS on a number of things.

Of course, MS got the ball rolling when it ripped off the Mac badly with Windows 3.0.

Yeah ok good point, but did you see the size of the woman in the green shirt. Honestly, first thing you see coming in, is a ginormus women swing her arm at you. Nice.

Hey, it's just like being back at Wal-Mart... which, come to think of it, won't be happy with the new source of competition for sales at their stores. This can only anger all retailers selling MS product.

can someone please point me to the premium market. I've been hearing that Apple holds the premium market but last time I checked you can purchase or build your own PC for $2,000+ (I'm guessing "premium" comes from the price because Apple's hardware definitely isn't premium) that would wipe the floor with any Mac. And I may be mistaken but they all run Windows. So again, where is the premium market?

It's where the consumers have decided it is, and which MS has acknowledged publicly (in media players as well) and is desperately trying to win back.

... there is such a thing in the retail world known as trade dress and it extends to retail store design. Its a form of intellectual property. There seems to be a lot here that treads on Apples trade dress but I can't tell from the shots what the layout is really like. What is clear though are the floor to ceiling glass fronts, open layout inside and other aspects of Apples minimalist design. Not saying that there is a clear cut legal case here but the imitation is so transparent as to be laughable and I would think, infuriating to the people who designed Apples original stores.

People who aren't in the biz often look at stuff like that and say, whats the big deal its just some stripped down tables, a counter for the geniuses, and a plain glass front because they have never been in the position to have to design something original. When Apple came out with their store design, it was really something that had never been seen before in the malls. Very distinctive, very functional and elegant, and won lots of awards for the design firm, etc.

All I can say is that Balmer is freaked about Apples ascendancy and it's showing with every step they take in the consumer realm and his frequent statements to the contrary. And he rails against software piracy ... what a dweeb.

It's interesting... Just thinking about how Microsoft can possibly make these stores profitable. If their real product is Windows, MS Office, etc., how can they possibly become profitable selling and servicing other manufacturer's computers? I have no inside knowledge of their projected profit margins, but this strikes me as a weakness in the retail format for MS.

how does best buy make profits selling and servicing other manufacturers computers?

It's interesting... Just thinking about how Microsoft can possibly make these stores profitable. If their real product is Windows, MS Office, etc., how can they possibly become profitable selling and servicing other manufacturer's computers? I have no inside knowledge of their projected profit margins, but this strikes me as a weakness in the retail format for MS.

I don't think even MS knows yet. MS is usually in the habit of not thinking things through before jumping in.

... there is such a thing in the retail world known as trade dress and it extends to retail store design. Its a form of intellectual property. There seems to be a lot here that treads on Apples trade dress but I can't tell from the shots what the layout is really like. What is clear though are the floor to ceiling glass fronts, open layout inside and other aspects of Apples minimalist design. Not saying that there is a clear cut legal case here but the imitation is so transparent as to be laughable and I would think, infuriating to the people who designed Apples original stores.

People who aren't in the biz often look at stuff like that and say, whats the big deal its just some stripped down tables, a counter for the geniuses, and a plain glass front because they have never been in the position to have to design something original. When Apple came out with their store design, it was really something that had never been seen before in the malls. Very distinctive, very functional and elegant, and won lots of awards for the design firm, etc.

All I can say is that Balmer is freaked about Apples ascendancy and it's showing with every step they take in the consumer realm and his frequent statements to the contrary. And he rails against software piracy ... what a dweeb.

Oh right- I forgot no retail store has ever posted large pictures of their products on their walls before. Does Apple own a copyright on that? GAP anyone?

Teck, the copying going on here is blatant. MS' intent here is painfully obvious. MS has a massive inferiority complex when it comes to Apple, and it's affecting their every move. It's as if they've lost the capacity for original thought.

MS is absolutely obsessed with Apple's rise. Ballmer can't stop talking about them. It's going to manifst itself physically, and it ha been for years. This store is just another example of it, and a bizzarely obvious one at that.

Its like telling a billionaire that he lose USD$10,000 in gamble, millions do not affect MS at all. Just look at the fines and lawsuits there had to pay in past.

Majority of companies have a war-chest for such issues, which is part of the overall operating budget for the company each year.
You may hate MS, but indirectly MS pushes Apple to provide us the most innovative product in market.

Teck, the copying going on here is blatant. MS' intent here is painfully obvious. MS has a massive inferiority complex when it comes to Apple, and it's affecting their every move. It's as if they've lost the capacity for original thought.

MS is absolutely obsessed with Apple's rise. Ballmer can't stop talking about them. It's going to manifst itself physically, and it ha been for years. This store is just another example of it, and a bizzarely obvious one at that.

Retail takes a big effort. We will see if MS has heart to carry it through.

Apple has the "all built in one house" advantage. All their products take design cues off of one another. Aluminum and glass is a big thing for them right now. Easy for them to get the whole experience thing going. MS has improved in that respect but they still do not really control the hardware.

They just cannot get that seamless experience. Makes me wonder if MS will try to design their own PC's.

That would be a real set of balls there. They know what their hardware partners margins are.

MS would not be able to continue to live off the fat of Windows and office if they did.