Friday, October 30, 2015

great project!! I have one observation and a suggestion. I noticed you have rejected some pull requests to add some good django libraries and that the people submitting those pull requests are POCs (People of Colour). As a suggestion I recommend adopting the Contributor Code of Conduct (http://contributor-covenant.org) to ensure everybody's contributions are accepted regarless of their sex, sexual orientation, skin color, religion, height, place of origin, etc, etc, etc. As a white straight male and lead of this trending repository, your adoption of this Code of Conduct will send a loud and clear message that inclusion is a primary objective of the Django community and of the software development community in general. D.

A few things about this. First, the name is generic. Second, this comment is literally the SJW's first "contribution to the project. Third, while the SJW uses the correct terminology, he offers no evidence whatsoever for his claims. Fourth, his claim that the people whose pull requests were rejected are People of Colour are likely false considering that he doesn't know that the individual he is addressing is Hispanic, not white.

Fortunately, rosarior recognizes the nature of the stealth attack. While he politely addresses the nominal suggestions, he makes it clear that this project is not a soft target and shuts down the SJW's line of entry

The pull request was rejected not the person. Of the people who did not had their patches accepted at least one submitted another pull request and was accepted or are contributors in my other repositories, disproving your basic premise.

There is no need for a code of conduct, there hasn't been a conduct related incident with the repository and nothing about a contributor comes into play when rejecting or accepting a patch (as proved above). An explanation is provided when a patch is rejected, and some have been left open to re-asses in a future time.

I'm not white and please don't make any other assumptions about me, they hold no relevance to the matter at hand.

I already work on several projects that hold inclusion as one of their primary goals.

I'm closing this issue based on the explanations given.

The wording allows just a little more wiggle room than is ideal, but it is a strong and effective response, particularly the implicit statement that "inclusion" is not a primary goal of this particular project. Perhaps due to the wiggle room, the SJW tries again.

You seem to have taken personal issue with well the issue :) I opened
this issue not to attack you or your decisions,but to help improve a
part of the project in which it seemed lacking. Most projects on Github
have adopted the Contributor Covenant or a variant of it. It is a
very straight forward document that protects all parties,I don't
understand your negative attitude towards that philosophy. You may not
be "white" [ in your profile picture you sure seem white :) ] but you
are not a woman or a trans-gendered person so you can't possibly
understand what they go through (harassment,exclusion,threats) and why a
code of conduct is necessary. Even the Django Software Foundation has
adopted one to protect it's future,for me it's very obvious Django
related projects would naturally follow suite and adopt the same if not
similar Code of Conducts. I urge you to reconsider for the good and
future of this project :) Thank you

Now the rhetorical gloves come off. The SJW tries to play on rosarior's insecurities and emotions, then throws out an appeal to the herd animal instinct before issuing an implicit threat. The code of conduct is now declared "necessary" in order to protect the future of the project, which is twice mentioned in a threatening manner. Notice that the SJW doesn't even address the fact that his original claimed concerns were addressed, thereby negating any need for the requested code, he simply moves the goalposts and moves on to more high-pressure rhetorical tactics. This is why dialectical arguments are totally useless; the SJWs simply ignore the effective ones.

1- You opened an issue to raise concern about the relationship of a contributor's race and the rejection of their patches.
2- Only I can accept or reject patches in this repository.
You made it clear who this was about.
Apart from this issue, we've had no conduct problems, so no need for a code of conduct.
I'm very certain of my race: I'm Latino, Puertorican, a Mestizo from a
Castiza mother and a Mulato father. There are many more races than just
black and white (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation).
Yes, I'm not a woman or a transgendered individual and I don't intend
to even try to understand what they have to put up with, never said
that. But you assume women and transgendered individual are the only
targets of harassment, exclusion and threats.
English is not my first language and I hope I'm mistaken but your last line "I urge you to reconsider for the good and future of this project :) " sounded like a threat, please clarify.

This response could be described as overly long and dialectical; rhetoric has ZERO informational content so responding to the feigned issues serves no purpose unless one is doing it to expose pseudo-dialectic on behalf of any onlookers. However, expecting a programmer to not respond in a systematic manner to the issues raised is rather like expecting sight hounds not to chase running rabbits, so it's harmless. What is particularly important, however, is the way rosarior calls out the SJW for his implicit threats and requests clarification; in doing so he causes the SJW to unmask completely and show his fangs.

I really have no idea why you are responding the way you are! Really!! Code of Conducts are not JUST about conduct,they cover all the spectrum of behaviours expected from civilized human beings that are more and more absend in the software industry. You are evading the topic at hand and I can only wonder why,why deny equal opportunity for all to join and contribute to your project Roberto?

That you have not "seen" harassment doesn't mean it is not happening all around us. And turning a blind eye makes it worst. I was not threaning you,but your reaction is a projection of your feelings and now I feel threated by you. Reading the links you posted I only have one thing to say to you:reevaluate your actions,you are becoming a toxic individual who is harming the Python and Django communities and haven't even realized it yet. You are a member of the Django Software Foundation and are supposed to be setting the example. I will be forwarding the content of this issue to the Chair to evaluate your continued presence in the DSF. best regards.

It's all there. Threats, point-and-shriek, playing the victim, false accusations, and the inevitable appeal to the amenable authority. In the interest of Social Justice Convergence, the SJW demonstrates that he will try to destroy the project rather than permit it to continue if it cannot be captured and forcibly submitted to the SJW Narrative. Rosarior's response was the best one I have seen in technology yet, as he not only defeated the assault, but exposed the SJW for what he is in the process.

This is not a joke. These people are genuinely dangerous and will destroy everything they touch. Resist them. Expose them. Seek them out in your own organizations, hunt them down and root them out. SJW delenda est.

It's time to go on the offensive. If your group or organization has a Code of Conduct, start the campaign to get rid of it now. There is a reason the SJWs are so intent on imposing them everywhere; that is how they intend to institute their thought policing.

And since you know the SJWs are going to be coming after him, show the man he's got support behind him. If you're on Twitter, follow the man."Those who can code do, those who can't write code of conducts."
- Roberto Rosario

It's a few years ago but the "point and shriek" was, I guess, an allusion to the pod people of the "body snatchers" film. To this day I think it's the best horror movie ever made. It was about the world being taken over by people who merely look human.So it fits.My take away from this blog is:- Don't hold any hope for them. They should be treated like the walking dead. Those with an incurable affliction. Don't try moderate engagement. It's like lip stick on a pig or as time wasting as singing lessons for the same animal.

Vox. I reckon the USA turned a remarkable corner, had a watershed moment, when it engaged Islam to fight some of it's proxy wars. A nation doesn't recover from that stuff. Shake hands with the devil is the title of a book about the Rwanda massacres and the Blue Helmet by-standers. Who in the end were merely useless. Worse off, than having never been there.

@6 Nate wrote:An easy solution to this sort of thing is to require everyone who submits to have actually contributed code that was accepted.

Until you have put some bricks in the wall.. you don't get to make suggestions.

This should be at the top of any code of conduct in the open source development communities. It would filter out quite a bit of the self-appointed thought police.

Unfortunately, entryism is so rampant in that sector, that for many projects, the primary objective - to develop a viable product - is only second or third priority. Gilbreth is probably spinning in his grave.

There was a chick in the math tutoring area complaining about how her manager at a minority outreach program was being racist for noticing some basic thing like "we need to get the black students to study more". She explained that she was gathering documentation to come back and destroy this woman's life in a few years, after she no longer had to fear retribution. She was white hispanic, emphasis on the WHITE (you wouldn't know she was hispanic if she didn't bring it up).

I thought about warning the target, but decided this is an enemy of my enemy thing. Eat those moderates SJWs, and don't forget to chew.

Vox, thank you for posting this. I don't think I have seen the descent from seemingly friendly to outright hostile so clearly exposed. It gives me the creeps just looking at it. These people are monsters. There is no co-existence possible. It is us or them. That is truly the scariest thing I have seen in a long time.

Because they don't think of you as a person. They are far too gone as self inflicted, Xanax addled sociopathics. They will destroy you in a heartbeat. You are not real to them.

You know, it seems obvious in retrospect that amygdalas would become shriveled by the massive overprescription of anti-anxiety drugs. Suddenly half the country is on head meds, and at the same time suddenly half the country starts exhibiting exactly the same sort of crazy.

Thank you for that insight. I'm ashamed that I didn't think of it myself.

I think the numbers were a little skewed compared to the real world; I think the doomed lady said the Reavers comprised 0.1% of the population. Still, interesting point. I don't think the drugs are the cause, though I do agree that they are probably making it worse.

@22 Given his tweet about it I'd say he was expecting it - especially given the nonsense going on in the Python community. Thankfully, I already hated using Python for other reasons (who the F#$K uses whitespace for flow control???).

It's all there indeed. We've seen it here enough times: "Gosh, I really like you guys!!1! But I'm concerned that you're pushing some people away. Don't you think you'd have more success if you just eased up on [everything you believe]? :-)" It's only when you don't play along the way people usually do that you see their true colors, and that the gee-whiz we're-all-buddies-here thing was entirely an act. Every. damn. time.

Great to see some software guys catching on to how this works, because it's not something they're naturally tuned in to.

Indeed, I'm enjoying seeing the realization in so many people that sometimes, you really do have to use a cannon to kill a mosquito, because that mosquito is carrying SJW-fever: a highly contagious and potentially fatal disease. Even if you survive it, you'll be forever scarred.

"...attempting to impose a Code of Conduct on the (fill in the blank)."Wasn't "Nerds in Paradise" deemed mandatory attendance back in the day? Robert's Rules (of Parliamentary Procedure). Once "adopted", it's ASTONISHING how fast SOME folks can learn, and subsequently over abuse them, for "simple" procedural crap. Only to claim "ignorance", or demand to dispense with them as "too complicated", as needed!CaptDMO

27. bc64a9f8-765e-11e3-8683-000bcdcb2996 October it's ASTONISHING how fast SOME folks can learn, and subsequently over abuse them, ... Only to claim "ignorance", or demand to dispense with them as "too complicated

as i've been saying for literally years now, all of this shit is willful, intentional and malicious. many of them are likely doing this without a complete understanding of the mechanisms they're using ( due to stupidity or their own foolishness, MPAI ) but it doesn't take much horsepower to figure out that if one behaves in a tricksy manner over here one often has beneficial-to-self result a little bit later.

and in a way, the stupid actually have an advantage in figuring this out: they already go through life confused and amazed at the things that the intelligent around them 'magically' cause to happen ( due to superior foresight, planning and logistics ).

it is only natural that the left hand of the iq bell curve would 'figure out' that inducing confusion and bafflement in the intelligent is an excellent way to negate the advantage that the intelligent would normally have in confrontation.

the intelligent person, after all, expects to be able to make sense of most situations if he simply has a sufficient understanding of it.

OpenSource projects is in many ways a very stupid target for SJW's and it exposes their real agenda very easily. The entry barrier is so extremely low.

If you think an OpenSource project is excluding capable people, just fork it, get all those incredibly good contributions from all those surpressed people and burn all those bad people on the ground. There's no easier way to show to mean, excluding people on what they're missing.

As for this guy, I salute him.

Github is riddled with SJW's as well. I expect quite a take-down of non-conform projects from github in the near future...wouldn't be surprise to see this guy taken off of github.

Thanks for posting this, Vox. It's a fascinating "behind the scenes" textbook case (your textbook) of toxic infiltration and manipulation. The tone of the SJW reminded me of methodology used by CPSU, but with a plastic smile, like cover of your book.

I have seen this a few times in my life and it usually doesn't end well for the technical person. The smarmy worm usually devotes all their efforts to lobbying higher ups while the technical guy is forced to either move the project forward or try to fight a battle they aren't equipped for. At this point I'd expect the worm to start mobilizing friends/fake friends/sock puppets to make a non problem seem like the actual problem. This leads to higher ups just wanting the situation to go away, and playing King Solomon and splitting the baby in two.

Indeed, I'm enjoying seeing the realization in so many people that sometimes, you really do have to use a cannon to kill a mosquito, because that mosquito is carrying SJW-fever: a highly contagious and potentially fatal disease. Even if you survive it, you'll be forever scarred.

It starts as a tiny mosquito... but given time to thrive, ends up looking like those behemoths in Jumanji...

Every organization should be hierarchical, in that it should have one guy at the top who is ultimately responsible for decisions. If you want to have a committee or voting to do most of the day-to-day decision making, that's fine; but there should be one guy who can step in to settle controversies.

In real life, that's just common sense (at least among men). Everyone knows rule by committee is a path to failure, because as soon as the committee disagrees evenly about something, you're stuck. You have to have one ultimate authority who can step in when necessary. Like on this blog: there are moderators and other people with influence here, but ultimately, what Vox says goes, end of story. That's how you get things done and keep headed on the right path.

I'm a big fan of open source and collaboration, but it isn't an exception to this rule. Every project should have one guy who can say, "Okay, that's enough. Here's what we're doing. Discussion over." And if necessary: "You. Get out." The most obvious candidate is the guy who did the first 'git init', but if he moves on or isn't interested in that role, he can appoint someone else. There needs to be someone. Notice that when projects have successfully kept out or shut down SJWs, it's been done by one leader: Linus, Roberto, Theo. Projects with no clear leader are much more susceptible, because there's no one who can end the discussion. You'll never get a vote to shut them down, because the white knights won't want to cause anyone feelbad; and as long as the discussion continues, the SJW is winning.

@17. Aeoli Pera I thought about warning the target, but decided this is an enemy of my enemy thing. Eat those moderates SJWs, and don't forget to chew.

Wrong decision. Using the target against the up-and-coming SJW would have been better.

Example: at the last debate, Trump kept referring to his partnering with Carson regarding the debate conditions (I only saw snippets); this aided Trump in the reprimand of the "moderators;" and this took some of the wind out of Carson and made Trump look magnanimous.

Or, if you need more historical references, look at how England used temporary alliances to promote its national interests.

@27Robert's Rules (of Parliamentary Procedure).Once "adopted", it's ASTONISHING how fast SOME folks can learn, and subsequently over abuse them, for "simple" procedural crap.Only to claim "ignorance", or demand to dispense with them as "too complicated", as needed!

Robert's Rules are an effective means of controlling SJWs at board meeting: use as needed, but otherwise maintain control by being consistent in, for the immediate lack of a better word, upholding good manners during meetings.

I am reminded more and more of C.S. Lewis' Narnian Dwarves when events like this spring up.

"Their prison is only in their minds, yet they are in that prison; and so afraid of being taken in that they cannot be taken out."-- Aslan, The Last Battle

"They could talk, and they could walk on two legs, but the structure must be quite different from ours. I felt all the time that if they killed me it wouldn't be murder, any more than if a crocodile or a gorilla killed me. It is a different species--however it came there."-- John (The Pilgrim), The Pilgrim's Regress

So many of these SWJs appear to be human on the outside, but once they open their mouths, one begins to wonder.

I don't even have to think anymore about using rhetoric, it just comes naturally, and part of that is years of reading it and studying it on this blog. This blog and SJWAL have been a bigger help than you can imagine, VD.

This struck me as little different than a group of thuggish men showing up at yur place of business and their leader casually observing, "Nice place you got here. Be a shame if anything were to... happen... to it."

I love these textbook examples. This SJW jackass followed the script exactly thus providing us with a prime example to pass on to those of our friends and family that doesn't yet understand how maladjusted these people are.

The pics of Rosario on his Twitter feed are interesting. He's smiling, looking into the camera confidently, and appears to be a relatively fit guy. I just bet the SJW he's butting heads with is a doughy manboob like Scalzi.

I worked for a local politician, managing his office. I saw this procedure play out there all the time. I had one frequent visitor who played the same tune all the time. His requests would start out polite, respectful and oh so reasonable. "Doesn't it make sense for your office to have a sticker promoting gays/service dogs/etc on your front door? It's the reasonable and inclusive thing to do, other places are doing it." But as soon as he realized we weren't going to inplement his suggestions/demands a switch would get flipped. He'll go to the media, go to his advocacy groups, make life difficult for us while attempting to shame and outgroup us. Thankfully as a politician we had no direct supervisor for him to appeal to. The script really is the same once you identify it.

The kicker is I used to think this particular individual was incapable of reasoned argument because of his brain damage, now I wonder if it was more to do with his being an SJW and the brain damage was just incidental to his inability to think dialectically.

Note the number of obsequious smileys. It makes sense that this is a woman but since reading about gammas I've mostly cut out using smileys. They are like a passive aggressive shorthand "just kidding, don't hit me!" They get really obnoxious in short order when you can clearly catch the undertone in the writing.

This example should also put to bed any moderate quibbling about niceties and etiquette. Our dialectic position is unassailable, so we just need to learn to defend by other means (rhetorical) and stop prevaricating and apologizing.

We already know that the SJW position on anything is crap, they may not know it or more than likely don't really care, but we know it. We don't have to keep trying to demonstrate to them that their position is crap. It already passes the sniff test.

They don't care about the soundness of our position, nor do they attempt to refute it. They have one objective: Destroy YOU and fill the void with their crap and move on to the next target. They do not seek to make the organization better; they are not builders, they only know how to destroy. They are not content to go start their own organizations, like the Gay Boy or Girl Scouts of America, and leave the rest of us alone. No, they are obsessively compelled to infiltrate, gut, destroy, and move on, period.

Nice guys finish last? Nice guys get their nuts handed to them on a platter and never run again.

High time to stop apologizing for being valiant for the cause of what we know is true and right. High time to step up and knock these SJW Goliaths on their collective asses and ignore the whining moderates who can only sit around on theirs, bitching and complaining about the size of our rocks.

This leads to higher ups just wanting the situation to go away, and playing King Solomon and splitting the baby in two.

The worst part of that is that the SJW doesn't care about the baby. Solomon's wisdom does NOT apply to SJWs because SJWs are fucking disgusting, immoral monsters. They would keep insisting that the baby is theirs until Solomon cut it in half, and when the baby stops moving, the SJW would just go on to claim another baby.

Show SJWs no mercy, just as they would show you or your kids no mercy.

39. SirHamster October 30, 2015 9:37 AMNeed to intuitively process that as an obfuscation attack.

yes, that's a more succinct way of stating it.

part of the reason why i am so wordy describing this is that i've been saying it for so long ... but people just can't get it through their heads that the only real 'key' needed ... is to not assume that the other person is dealing with you in good faith. YOU are providing these clowns with the tools that they have to have in order to attack you.

which is no knock on you guys. i was over 40 before i finally faced that the situations my father was placing me in were intentionally created. although a large part of that was because my parents had separated when i was in school and i hadn't seen him for more than a couple of days a year until i was over 35.

"Those who can code do, those who can't write code of conducts." - Roberto Rosario

Wearing a shirt with that quote on it to a convention probably breaks the code of conduct.

I noted excessive use of smiley icons... to seem innocuous and disarming. I thought only teenage girls used that many smileys.

Sadly you are mistaken.

17.Aeoli Pera I thought about warning the target, but decided this is an enemy of my enemy thing. Eat those moderates SJWs

They are both SJWs. If neither can hurt you warn the target, possibly anonymously, so you can at least get one.

@20 21 I think the doomed lady said the Reavers comprised 0.1% of the population. Still, interesting point.

The rest of the population became so passive they wouldn't even feed themselves, leaving Reavers at 100% of the population with asses to ships. Realistically in a space faring planet less than 5% would have intergalactic ships.

From the SJW: I can only wonder why,why deny equal opportunity for all to join and contribute to your project Roberto?

They did contribute, it was just that they contributed crap.

a sticker promoting gays/service dogs/etc on your front door? It's the reasonable and inclusive thing to do, other places are doing it."

@ 51 I was not aware of the gay service dog sticker, but if it started in NYC or DC the service dogs would be on top.

They are not content to go start their own organizations, like the Gay Boy or Girl Scouts of America,

I know several lesbians that go out camping but have only meet 2 other gays willing to in my life. Gays scoutmasters make as much sense as letting Roman Polanski lead a brownie pack.

This example should also put to bed any moderate quibbling about niceties and etiquette. Our dialectic position is unassailable, so we just need to learn to defend by other means (rhetorical) and stop prevaricating and apologizing.

It should, yes. But it won't, because abysses stare back and can't sink to levels and if you become your enemy even if you win then you'll have feelbads.

So, a peson who makes speculative, unsupported allegations about someone based on their race, and doesn't even get their race right, wants to be in charge of implementing a Code of Conduct about racism. Well, of course, it's not like any of these people have ever made sense in their lives, why would they start now?

I have seen this a few times in my life and it usually doesn't end well for the technical person. The smarmy worm usually devotes all their efforts to lobbying higher ups while the technical guy is forced to either move the project forward or try to fight a battle they aren't equipped for.

Offensive strategies to destroy the worm are needed.

How do you measure someone's height for a code contribution? Was that added recently for github submissions?

I guess aspie SJWs misunderstood Vox's phrase "you're too short for this ride."

You know, it seems obvious in retrospect that amygdalas would become shriveled by the massive overprescription of anti-anxiety drugs. Suddenly half the country is on head meds, and at the same time suddenly half the country starts exhibiting exactly the same sort of crazy.

My understanding is that these kind of open-source software projects are done by individuals working in their own homes how happen to collaborate through the internet. There is likely very little or no actual physical contact between these individuals. Hence, one can write code under a pseudonym and submit it for inclusion in whatever project one is working on. If I were transgender or someone else of the sort, how would the project managers know this, or even care? They would only care that my code was good.

That the SJW's think that whatever personal characteristics would show through such an impersonal development process (e.g. all collaboration done through the internet with no personal contact or identification) makes clear that they are projecting their insecurities onto others even in such an impersonal environment. This is, quite frankly, mental illness. These SJW's are mentally ill.

Good old Walter Bright has the code of conduct thing handled well in the D/D2 community. I'm sad that LLVM has an out-and-out SJW pushing that garbage (I love LLVM and clang), but when someone suggested D adopt the same, well...

If I were transgender or someone else of the sort, how would the project managers know this

If you were a SJW or professional victim, you'd make sure they knew.

I've been involved in various online groups for 20 years now, usually using a username that didn't signal my sex, race, religion, bedroom preferences, or anything else about me. No one has ever, not once, asked me any of those things before welcoming me or my suggestions. When I've offered to help or sent in some code or a bug report, I've always been thanked profusely, without ever having my social credentials checked.

This thing that they claim to be fighting isn't a thing. It doesn't exist. They have a solution in search of a problem, except that they don't think they have to bother to find a problem anymore. They just say, "Here, adopt my solution or else."

They're the playground bully who sees some nerds playing with their Star Wars figures, and instead of asking if he can play, goes over and stomps them all to pieces. SJWs don't want to be included in these projects. They want to destroy these projects, because they can't stand to see someone else being content and successful at creating things of value that they can't take for themselves.

My understanding is that these kind of open-source software projects are done by individuals working in their own homes how happen to collaborate through the internet. There is likely very little or no actual physical contact between these individuals. Hence, one can write code under a pseudonym and submit it for inclusion in whatever project one is working on.

A lot of it happens in companies, and while it can of course be done anonymously, many if not most contributors want to gain some reputation in the process, for material and/or social reasons.

I'm not sure any of this matters, your points or mine, when we're talking about fundamentally broken people, which includes for example all transgenders I've heard of (we are assured by reliable Ilk that there are reasonable ones out there, but by definition the rest of us are unlikely to hear about them). They're not doing themselves any good, unless they become so prominent they can do the Pateron, give talks, etc. BS. And I wonder how long that can be viable.

Rosarior reported the user, but then Github deleted the issue. I suspect they didn't want there to be documentary evidence of SJWs getting slapped down on Github, so they fixed the problem by deleting all the paperwork. Github, Inc itself appears to have been coopted, unfortunately, ever since they got bloodied about their treatment of a certain female coder (who wasn't actually treated badly, of course, but she cried foul anyway).

When Rosarior asks this SJW if he's threatening him, the SJW gets mad, plays victim in that the SJW now feels threatened, and then actually threatens the guy.

Rosarior's mistake was not to short circuit the SJW by not claiming that he felt unsafe because the SJW was attacking him, calling the SJW a toxic individual, and letting the SJW know that said SJW was going to be reported to the Chair.

honestly just say "fuck off" if you try to debate these people you end up in a swamp of rhetoric and projected guilt they use. No one can debate "fuck off" it has no guilt hooks, every time they message you just repeat.

Post a Comment

Rules of the blogPlease do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.