With Rick Nash aboard, does better mean better?

By Rick Carpiniello
GREENBURGH — The Rangers’ big, shiny new toy stood in front of three differently colored No. 61 uniform jerseys Wednesday afternoon and couldn’t stop smiling.
Rick Nash is happy to be here, thrilled to be a Ranger (he said New York City was his first choice), excited to get going, embracing the pressure and the expectations.
And the Rangers are surely just as happy, thrilled and excited, because 28-year-old, 6-foot-4 power forwards with speed, a bit of snarl, and a sniper’s touch are pretty rare in the NHL.
Nash, who already has nine NHL seasons on his resume, who is on a relatively short list of the game’s best goal-scorers, is exactly what the Rangers needed — and have needed — another elite first-line scoring winger to go with Marian Gaborik. He is what they needed most of last year, and so desperately in the playoffs when their struggle to score forced them to go seven games in each of the first two rounds, and ultimately led to their demise in the Eastern Conference final.
Imagine what the Rangers might have done if — big if — they had been able to complete the trade for Nash at the end of February, at the trade deadline, when they tried like heck but couldn’t get it done.
“Yeah, for sure, I was disappointed,” Nash said about that deadline passing and him staying behind as the captain of the Columbus Blue Jackets while the Rangers played 20 playoff games, or five times as many as Nash has played in his entire career.
The Rangers, with this one deal, are a better team right now than they’ve been in a while — and last year they were the best team in the East and the second-best in the entire NHL during the season and a final four team in the playoffs. Whether being a better team, with a better roster, and with more of what they most needed (goals) translates into a better season or two or four or six more playoff wins can’t possibly be predicted.
The Rangers in 2011-12 won a lot of those games that could have gone either way, won a lot of them late, won a ton of them on the shoulders of the Vezina Trophy-winning goalie and league MVP-finalist Henrik Lundqvist. They won games by beating up teams physically, in small battles, and even, yes, with the gloves down — the Rangers led the NHL in fighting majors. Opposing scouts and coaches praised the Rangers’ work ethic, and the way they just made it difficult to play against, made it hard to gain every inch, and just took away so much of that ice and time with their physical play and their shot-blocking.
It was an admirable way to do business, and surely they will still look to play that way, even now that they have added skill — and with $13.39 million in salary cap space left, they could still add more.
“I think it’s a big fast team with some of the wingers, guys like (Mike) Rupp and (Brian) Boyle,” Nash said. “They can kind of do it all and play fast and I think I kind of fit in to that. It’s going to be fun playing in the East as well, I think, with all the rivalries and the close games. But like I’ve said before, any role they’ll ask me to play and want me to play, I’ll try to do my best at that.”
So here’s the question. The Rangers didn’t give up any of their most prized young players in the deal, but they did trade Brandon Dubinsky, who despite his nightmarish ‘11-12 season, was one of those guys who embodied the team’s values. On July 1, they lost another Brandon — Prust — who was a heart-and-soul guy, their leading fighter, who could nevertheless play top-nine minutes and kill penalties and, well, play the game better than most of the fist-throwers.
Both of them were involved in the “identity” of the team, in the “all-for-one” attitude, were among the guys who made the Rangers tough for opponents to play, and who stuck up for teammates.
So while the Rangers are better today, they’re different, too, and maybe their game will have to change some. Maybe they will have to learn a new way to win, and perhaps with a guy like Nash and a full season from Carl Hagelin and a first season for Chris Kreider, they will win more with speed and scoring than with growl and grit.
It’s a fair argument. Will this better team be, well, better?

I think the hope is that where previously we would grind teams down and keep games tighter and win by a single goal or OT/skills contest, this team now seems more capable of scoring more and by different methods – having watched a lot of youtube of Nash this past week he has great speed and hands for a big guy, but he’ll also go in close and get the dirty goals.

The Rangers are a better team on paper and a better team on the ice. They will go from a good team to a dominate team. They have more speed, more size, and ALOT more skill.

Using Nash’s words they are a “World Class” team. Everything is in place to win the cup. It’s a long season 82 games & 16 playoff wins to reach the goal. On paper they look as good as the Kings, now they have to play like them in the Finals, to get to where they want to be at the end of the year!

The rangers better win the cup this year because next year they have Hagelin, MCD and stepan up for new contracts and raises as RFA’s and the year after they have Lundqvist, Girardi, Gaborik,Callahan and Boyle up for new contracts as ufa’s and Kreider as a rfa. The cap will be considerably lower by than so it’s now or never.

I think torts will do a good job of keeping some of the identity ( shot blocking). But he will mold this group and have it play to its strengths now that it has more skill. A blend of 04 tampa and last ears rangers. In torts we trust.

I will go with yes as well. More goals, less grinding etc. But I believe they’ll have to keep their black and blue identity in order to repeat, or do better this year. I do share the sentiment that they’ve lost too many pieces that made them what they were. I’ll go a little further and say that while I still believe they made a right decision on Prust and didn’t give him $10M contract, I’m not as adamant about it as I was before after they traded Dubinsky. However, let’s not forget that their identity came from the coach. He was able to sell this indentity to a young team, and the core is still here. It’s up to Torts to make sure that their identity doesn’t change drastically. So far, he gave us very little to question his approach. I believe he is capable of making sure the new pieces fit. They’ll be better, but it my take time.

I do believe they are better overall. I feel if you took Dubi and AA off the team and replaced him with Nash at the beginning of the playoffs, they would have won more than 10 games.

The BiGGEST difference between this year and last year, is that other teams will be ready to play them hard. I think the Rangers got away with the first maybe 3 or 4 months of being ‘under the radar’ as far as being an elite team is concerned. Thus, the blockheaded Thornton “they’re soft” comment…

But certainly now, after coming second overall, a 20 game playoff run, a Vezina winner/MVP finalist in nets, and now 2 straight seasons of significant offseason acquisitions in terms of player personnel, the Rangers will be skating with targets on their backs from opening night. They are now considered a well-run organization with money to spend, a place where players want to come to play, a big market with great expectations.

Its no secret the Rangers are now an elite NHL team, and whose toughness will certainly be tested by the rest of the league.

I still am somewhat curious about the fascination for Doan. Surely there are equally competent folks to choose from without all the hoopla that seems to follow when the name Doan is mentioned. I’m sure that you more learned folks know which ones who fit this category.

I think ilb said the other day our impending RFA’s will not be arbitration eligible so this will make it easier to retain and negotiate with them – so i think we are looking at a 3-4 year window here. But if the kids keep coming through the ranks then no reason we cant be a perennial force.

This team is going to be measured whether it takes home the Cup. I could dredge up a lot of measures that say the Rangers outran their underlying play from last year and benefitted from a better than usual season from Lundqvist (and Biron in the first half). That on aggregate the players they’ve added are actually worse than the players they lost in creating a favorable shot differential. That assuming the season were to start on time we better hope that Nash can at least equal Gaborik’s performance from last year in the first 20-30 games of the season (recent seasons and career trends suggest he can’t) and the team’s depth will be put to the test during that time since they’re going to be even more heavily reliant on their top 9 to accomplish anything.

But none of that is going to particularly matter if we hear the words sometime in June of “Captain Ryan Callahan, come get the Stanley Cup” amongst a chorus of boos cascading down on Bettman. Last summer we wondered what the Richards signing meant beyond nabbing the biggest fish in the FA pond. Did it compress the timeline of the Rangers contending? Did it budge open the Cup window whether we thought they were ready or not? This trade should have removed any doubt as to whether the Rangers think they’re ready.

So maybe they’re now better equipped to ride out dry spells from a couple of key players. Maybe they’re a bit more insulated against the fickle nature of the playoffs where unheralded rookies and journeymen can go head to head with the game’s greatest for a couple of weeks at a time and come out on top. In the final analysis of this trade, Nash’s individual performances are going to take a backseat to what the Rangers team accomplishes in the next couple of years.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they go to the Cup Finals or lose in the 1st round. As I said, better doesn’t always equate to more wins. It still scares me that our 4th line right now will include BOTH Asham and Rupp. But they do have experience, just like Halpern and Pyatt.

The fascination with Doan is purely because he’s available for money. If he were under contract for 3 more years with Phoenix, we probably wouldn’t say his name except when he was playing against the Rangers. 20 goal guy, seems to fit our style and you could argue we’re still short one top 9 wing. Nice fit at the right years.

In general I’d be hesitant to re-sign Gaborik to anything more than a 2 year deal which if he’s still effective he wouldn’t take since someone will probably offer him a lot better. My fear is that he had no choice but to get lowballed on his contract when he hit UFA in 2009 because of injury concerns. Had he been healthier earlier in his career he could have been entertaining Parise/Kovalchuk type offers.

It will also be interesting to see whether Lundqvist is going to give them a decent hometown discount at that point. As much as we hate the guy across the Hudson, he did give the Devils a decent sized one when he was up for his previous contract.

I wouldn’t be so sure about Girardi if they have some other young guys come up. Also Sauer is up next year too (if he comes back, which I hope he does). Lundqvist and Callahan they’ll definitely bring back. But you never know with the new CBA/cap situation.

And as I said, I’m not so sure this trade makes up a cup team. It could, but we could also lose in the 1st round. I think we’ll make the playoffs for sure as a 3-6 team.

CTB – I think he’ll take a 2-3 year deal for 5-6 mil or so. I think he knows he was lucky to get the 5 year deal at that 7.5 mil price tag based on his injury history. A lot of teams didn’t even want to give him more than a 3 year deal back then.

I agree that Gabby, as productive as he could be could be odd man out in two years. It would be great if he could be packaged and we not lose all his value to FA when this year is over. For our team, we have to hope he is productive when he returns and stays injury free. His career has been injury plagued, he is getting older and we are lucky he had the productive year he had. Get some value, Glen.

With the other FA’s, it would be nice if once, just one, Slather could lock up the guys early. Why wait, like he did with Prust to ‘see what the market will bear’? (Unlesss there is some spending stopage league wide). Be smart. Hank, Girardi, Cally. These are keepers. They most likely want to stay here, too. Lock em up.

Chris Neill accepted much less than the market would bear for him as an FA next year to STAY in Ottowa. Believe it or not, there ARE guys like that. If Slather wants to keep Boyler, start the talks outside of a year left on his contract. He may get a ‘fair value’ and Boyle may feel wanted.

Extrapolating current RR predictions, in two years, Nash will score 65 goals and Richards will get 95 assists -using a prototype stick that automatically tweets about golf everytime it touches the puck-

I agree with CTs writeup. I do think the window will be more than 2 years but other than that he makes excellent points. That’s not to say that there won’t be only a 2 year window, but I believe we have more time than that. It will be interesting none the less, and IMO, and I hate to say it, but healthy Cindy and Malkin still give the Pens an edge over any other team in the league. I hope I eat my words, and that losing Staal and not really doing anything to help their D will bump them down a bit. I think as a team right now we are a top 3 team in the league. I am very very excited for the season to start.

Yeah I heard the Minny contract offer too. From what I’ve read he was just done with the Wild. Something about how he didn’t like how they handled his injury issues. He needed to get that major surgery in his walk year to be able to continue to play at a high level but Minny wanted him to get a lesser surgery that he could recover from quicker but wasn’t as corrective as the one he had.

I think Sather would love to lock up McDonagh and Stepan and eventually Kreider to nice team friendly deals but I have a feeling that at most their agents would like them to take deals that cover their RFA years and maybe a year or two of UFA. Essentially what they locked up Staal for a few years back.

As much as I’m a believer in locking up guys for most of their prime years for below-UFA market rates there’s still the other side of the table that might want to see what their UFA market rate could really be.

I agree there is now a window. I do not agree it is 2 years. they have stockpiled prospects that should allow them to replace some players who may leave as FA’s. I don’t think they will lose all potential FA’s. I also think that if the Rangers decide they would let Gabby walk, they would trade him first. otherwise I think they do what they have to do to bring him back.

For all of the talk of our depth on defense, there really aren’t any players that project legit NHL potential left in the farm system other than McIlrath and Skjei. Only McIlrath is right handed. Girardi’s right-handedness makes him very important to the team in the long-term. Honestly, other than him, it’s Sauer, Stralman, McIlrath, and Bickel. Who knows whether Sauer ever plays again, and if so, if he can even return to where he was, let alone improve on that. And McIlrath is still a project. Stralman and Bickel just aren’t that good. So Girardi is very important.

I can’t imagine any agent allowing a young player to sign long term right now (or have their RFAs sign beyond one year) with the potential for a salary rollback looming. Makes the Versteeg contract so confusing; why sign for $4MM now and risk a rollback to somewhere around $3.5MM rather than wait and sign for $4MM after the new CBA? Its not like the owners are going to apply the percentage multiplier to new deals, they’ll keep spending like they always have but with all prior deals reduced. Because that’s what they do.

I don’t think the Rangers as a franchise only has a two year window, but this group of players certainly does. If they don’t get it done, there will certainly be some changes in a lot of the parts, but most, if not all, of the young core will be retained.

But in two years, Gaborik and Boyle should probably have their resumes ready, as should Pyatt, Rupp, Asham, Haley, and Biron.

If the team hasn’t won anything or significantly regresses, some of the younger core pieces my get traded to adjust the team, in a new direction. In that scenario, I think the young guys on the team now that might get moved could be any combination of Staal, MDZ, Stepan, and/or Hagelin.

I don’t see the Rangers, providing they’re a contender, trading Gaborik just because he’s an impending FA. Even if Kreider progresses into the player we hope he can become, why wouldn’t they want to go into the playoffs fully loaded with Gaborik/Nash/Kreider. And their return probably wouldn’t be great if he’s just a rental.

I didn’t say the window was strictly 2 years. That’s more of a worst case scenario. But if they lose a couple of their big FAs then that really changes things. And I like P&G’s wording that the window applies for the team as currently constructed plus or minus a complimentary player or two.

I have to respectfully disagree with potential 1, or even 2 year “win it now” window having anything to do with the new CBA or impending RFAs in 1 or two years. First, if the cap goes down substantially, the current salaries will have to be adjusted accordingly, leaving the same margin, percentage wise, they have as of today. Secondly, the luxury of having young, NHL capable system is that most of them do not become arbitration eligible until their 2nd RFA term.

Excellent summary in a compact form, Carp
There is no question IF this team become better (of course it is), but could this “better” be enough to achieve the main goal? It will depend on how precise Torts &Co. will be able to evaluate newcomers, integrate them in a team and “nice-tune” team concept and team as a whole, accordingly.

_If we’d kept Prust, even at his Montreal number, we wouldn’t have Asham and we’d only be $12MM under the cap. Just not doable._

This statement is correct from a mathematical point of view, but is incorrect if they plan to keep a contender for years. For if you give $10M to Prust how do you justify not increasing McD or Kreider’s salary 5 times more than that number. And how do you expect Lundqvist, or even Gaborik to give you a hometown discount in a couple of years if Prust gets that?

Good morning all! Great column Carp, though that fifth graf just kills me. Lots of good points here, and I’m really excited for this season, but can we not talk just yet about who we’re going to lose in the coming years!

I don’t want Gaborik gone anytime in the next two years. Lord knows I’ve defended him here when others were ready to drive him to the airport.

But if he’s still a 30+ goal guy after 2 yrs what do you think the market on him would be? Look at the numbers attached to Doan and he’s not anywhere close to goal scorer that Gaborik is. And given the other raises due to the Rangers homegrown and other UFAs like Lundqvist, Girardi and Callahan could or should the Rangers pay that for a 32 year old?

_This statement is correct from a mathematical point of view, but is incorrect if they plan to keep a contender for years. For if you give $10M to Prust how do you justify not increasing McD or Kreider’s salary 5 times more than that number._

If you’re giving Rupp $1.5MM how can you justify (reportedly) not offering Prust $2MM? Its not a straight line, guys with lower baselines can be tripled and still sit safely below the average cost of a roster slot. Besides that, if we look to extend McDonagh long term this offseason, he’ll be making a higher multiplier than Prust anyway (and that’s w/out factoring in the RFA vs. UFA difference). Same with Kreider in a few seasons.

Long way of saying: Giving one guy a certain raise doesn’t mean everyone must get that raise and, beyond that, the guys you mentioned will get that raise and then some anyway.

Cally, Gaby, Hank will probably get similar amounts or cancel each other out
Blockness will be due an extra $2m ish
Mack Truck and extra $3-4m
Kreider – who knows, if he scores 30? a big raise, 20? maybe an extra $1.5m
Stepan & Hagelin – an extra $1m?
Sauer – the jurys out until he is injury free and puts another full season in

With the RFA’s none have arbitration status (4 years in NHL – which may change) yet so that would help the team(Slats) negotiate and keep that amount down for another year or two – subject to offer sheets – they would be my biggest worry if the young guys perform really well over the next 2 seasons.

but, if you lose Gaborik, you have to replace him with a first-line winger … and unless Kreider proves to be a 30-40 goal guy, it will be more expensive to find another Gaborik than to re-sign Gaborik.

they didn’t go get Nash to be Gaborik’s replacement … they got Nash because it wasn’t enough to have one first-line winger in the organization … if they keep Nash and let Gaborik go, they’re worse off than before they got Nash.

Carp, I understand that’s not why they got Nash, but you figure if Kreider (or any other young player, no reason to limit it to Kreider) can develop into a 30 goal scorer, having Nash makes Gaborik more easily expendable. Without Nash, even if Kreider became a 30-40 goal guy, you still have to keep Gaborik.

I love that critique, because there’s no way to just enjoy messing around with roster ideas and stuff, it has to be in a dead-sweat panic. Its basically the flipside of me saying “Gotta laugh at the mindless fans too dumb to think ahead to next week, let alone 2015. Buy a Dolandog, grab a beer and try not to scratch your cornea with either.”

Prust now gets paid way more than Rupp and his cup. Prust left for the money, people. I loved him too, but for like 1.7, you know? He is so not worth 2.4 to me, or anyone but the Habs-been, and have fun with Gomer, bud.

I’ll move on to this upcoming year:

Yes Haley is a goon and you wonder if Slats just wanted him off the street, or to toughen up hartford, you know, to keep Redden safe and productive. Want to make sure he plays hard for the money.

Asham can play a little -I’ve always liked his hustle, and Torts can control him. I would have enjoyed keeping feds for one more year but I can see not wanting to sign him for multiples. (And there is a lesson here, kids, as Espo would say -DO not become the rangers NHLPA rep, ask Feds and Dubi).

Bigger story this summer is we got bigger and scorier up front. A little Nashtier. Got rid of some inconsistencies and bought in some older and wiser character/specialty guys. Hopefully that will give us some gravitas in the room and in the faceoff circles.

Gotta like Nash, he’s still got his playoff beard going. He wants to get used to how it feels having a beard deep into a NY summer! Great training regimen!

I think the biggest challenge they will have is the gelling. How they adjust to each other, and tendencies. We just added a huge fish into the tank. How that affects behavior of other fish is critical and something we wont be able to predict without knowing them/egos etc. We are a lot more Canadien now, and less US and Rusky. If you add Doan, that’s a lot of older, super-starrier, former Canadien-born captains and how does that affect Rhino? I imagine Dubi was a loyal soldier to Callahan, so lets see how that all plays out.

I think it looks good on paper. Better than last year, on paper. But more things to work out in the air and on the ice.

Carp – true, but Girardi wasn’t drafted by anyone and was signed by the Rangers. So he still came up in the system. McBust didn’t though. Aren’t too many guys left who were drafted by the Rangers (6 left I think now after the trade).

Mister D – Sykora will be signed somewhere, probably NJ to be honest. He had a great year there. Only reason he didn’t get paid was because his last NHL season he had a ton of injuries so teams didn’t want to take the risk. The fact he played 82 games last year means someone will pay him.

yeah, i understand those tecnicalities … but bottom line is they didn’t draft any of their first line players or top pair d-men … and so I am skeptical when people project draft picks to be first-liners.

But Odds, this is the Rangers we are talking about here. A First Class/World Class organization. They just signed the 5th highest paid player in the league and gave up 2 forwards who will never reach there potential and a d-man who is too soft.

No way can the Rangers regress this season with the almighty “elite” scoring power forward leading them to victory…

that is not what I said CT,
my point was, if the Rangers decided they did not want to resign Gabby when he became an FA, that they would consider trading him before that. I do not want Gabby traded. he is one of the few FA’s that has come here and produced. I would resign him right now if it were up to me.

And Carp – I was talking more about why the Rangers paid as much as they did for Rupp. Guy was a 10 year vet who had won a cup and been to the playoffs plenty of times. Prust didn’t even see the playoffs until he got to the Rangers and had his only 2 good seasons in blue. If Montreal wanted to pay him that much, then good luck to them thinking that contract is in any way going to pay off.

Remember Naslund’s decision in 2009 to retire and forfeit a $2 million buyout from the Rangers, which would have counted against the salary cap for the following season (had he waited until he was formally bought out). While few and far between, there are guys out there who are not all about the money. Naslund didn’t even have the history with the team to justify such a decision IMHO. Maybe I’m missing something there but let’s see who wants to win and who just wants to get paid (or retire before they’re done). I’d like to think there might be a guy like that on the roster right now.

So trade him when bull dog? Beginning of next year? Maybe it they win the Cup this year and you could pass it off as a move to restock the cupboard, but I don’t know if in the mode that they’re in right now if they’ll get equivalent value on Gaborik.

CT,
I said the same sort of thing about Anisimov when this off season started. this offseason the Rangers needed to make a decision on AA, because next off season he would be looking to get paid. they had to decide if he was worth it to them. he wasn’t, so he was moved. the same can be true of Gabby next offseason. they have to decide if they are going to pay him again. if they decide they are not, they will move him.

Of course there will be takers. If he’s healthy he’s good for 30+ goals and probably 70 pts. Yes, trading him at the beginning of the season will get the most value but I don’t see how that helps the Rangers trading his offense without replacing it with someone that can do the same thing right now. Especially if they don’t win the Cup this year.

The rangers rarely draft high enough to get first line developable talent.
We never had a rebuilding year, really. Not a normal one. Not a lets tank and pick a #1 year. Seems they get defense when they get high pick slots. Obviously they have sought to get forwards by free agency and trades. And they have a long history of getting good people LATE in the rounds. Give them that. Your Goalie, your captain, I rest my case.

Plus, only twice in this era were there real mistakes made, with bad (and LOCAL) picks when high talent was available.

2003: Hugh Mistakemmen was one example at #12. There were at least 6 first liners available on the board then. They could have thrown a dart into the available pool and come up with a better pick. Worst draft in history of NYR, hands down. Do you know how much Sather had to pay his buddies in florida to get Jessiman into TWO games so he wouldn’t look like such a failure? I heard it was a lot and involved strippers.

2004: Al Montoya was #6. Ooops, shoulda taken a forward. But wait, …who? Not much to pick from that year…Stafford and Radulov, maybe. Maybe David Booth. Not much there. Korpedo was that year too. Kudos, at least, for picking Dubi and Cally so late.

2005: Staal at 12 and Sauer at 40. Stocking up on D. Only Oshie (24) and Statsny (44) were available.

Are we talking about 1st line forwards or just 1st line players? DZ and Staal I’d argue are both 1st line players as d-men (or would be on other teams if we weren’t stacked on D). We also drafted Zidlicky. Mike York was technically a 1st liner (although not for long). So yeah, last one would have to be Savard if we’re talking about forwards.

Last 1st round pick to turn out as a 1st line player? Alexei Kovalev in 91. Ouch.

again, it is not about that CT,
the Rangers want to be making the decision, not Gabby. if they decide they are not going to pay him again, then why lose him for nothing. they would, and should trade him. if they decide that he would be worth paying again they should resign him next offseason.

As a contending team why would they trade their best offensive player? And what if he says that he won’t negotiate before/during the season which a lot of players do? What if the same thing happens with Lundqvist and Cally too?

Unless they know they can get someone to replicate his production trading him for the fear of losing him at the end of the year is not a good bet for the Rangers.

as long as the Rangers have made a decision that they want to keep him they can wait for him. its about the Rangers wanting him! I am not trading him because he’s becoming an FA, I would trade him because the Rangers decided they are not bringing him back.

It was just a joke thing. I wouldnt ever want any little kid to be a fanatic like me, so no refs suck shirts. I just always wanted a baby sister or niece that i could protect and teach to be a new york fan. All my family and friends continue having baby boys. And little wicky is too far away for me to see every 2-3 months like i can baby ilb.

Carp, also important is that since Clark took over the drafting, Kreider is the first forward taken in the first round that has had enough time to develop into an NHL player, not counting Cherepanov. And I don’t think you can blame what happened to Cherepanov on the Rangers.

The JT Miller pick irked me. I thought there was still a good amount of first-line talent left on the board. To me, JT Miller has third liner written all over him. A great third liner, but a third liner.

If Gaborik pops another 40 goal season (and it won’t be this one, taking his injury into consideration) you’re going to have a real hard time getting him to take a discount to stay here. Henrik and Callahan, yeah, I can see them taking less.

To help the team, give them more payroll flexibility and a better chance to win.

Specifically, #30 because he’s never won anything and has already bagged a boatload of cash. Also, the marketing opportunities in NY are greater than elsewhere. Also, where else is he gonna get to frequent fashion shows and play guitar w Johnny Mac. Callahan because he’s the captain of an original 6 team on the ggreatest stage in the world, and was born in NY. Both because they have newborns, maybe dont want to uproot the family. Plenty of reasons.

tiki, that’s not a reason for them to take less money. it makes zero sense to me.

now, if you’re telling me that when their contracts are up the Rangers have a salary cap problem, or they need to free up money to sign a UFA from another team, that’s different, and I think both guys would. But that shouldn’t be the case, and as of now it certainly isn’t the case.

It has nothing to do with either player not loving the city or the organization or feeling an obligation to the city and the organization, or a matter of loyalty or whatever you call it. There just is no reason for them to take a discount. So they won’t. And they shouldn’t.

Why did Tom Brady restructure his contract to get significantly less money from the Patriots? As he said, to give them more flexibility. Why did Marco Scutaro take less money to play for the Red Sox when he had more money on the table from Oakland? As he said, because he wanted to win. Happens all the time.

Thats what im saying Carp. Whenever Callahan or #30 get their deals extended, they ought to take a hometown discount to help the team with flexibility so they can sign more players. We dont know what the cap will be at in a couple years, or how far under the cap the Rangers will be. Neither do Cally or 30.

And a final point, Cally and 30 could take a bit of a hometown discount and a greater number of years to gain personal security. They dont know how long their careeers will be. Anyone’s career can be cut short, especially given the way Cally plays and the amount of games 30 plays.

And to reiterare one last time, the marketing opps in NY are far greater than lets say Columbus. Would Cally be smart to sign with Columbus for $15 million more

OK, first of all, tell me about the marketing deals Callahan has landed in New York.

Second, right now the Rangers are set to go into the season $13.4 million under the cap, and with all their veteran players locked up for next year, $20M under the cap for 2013-14. If anything, these players should be able to get MORE from the Rangers than from another team.

I understand the cap flexibility thing. It’s not an issue with the Rangers. As it stands, with their young team and so many players locked up or on ELCs or facing RFA only, the cap should not be a problem, even if it goes down.

And now I’m totally exasperated because I can’t wrap my mind around this discount theory.

I understand all of your other points Carp,
I still don’t get why you think it would be a rebuild if Gabby was traded. there would still be many vets on the team, and you would not have to trade him for picks and prospects.

bull dog, if you trade him for prospects or young players just to get something for him, that smells like a rebuild. you are making your team less competitive now so it will be better later. If you’re telling me you will get the same player for him, even though he’d be going to the other team as a rental, well I have a hard time believing that would happen. Plus there’s a NTC.

I dont know what Cally has gotten from marketing. But id be willing to stake my life #30 has. The guy is an icon in NY. Stick him in Columbus and he’s a nothing in terms of popularity.

I dont know when either player is scheduled to become free agents, but if for instance, Cally or #30 become free agents in the 2016 offseason…. they could right now sign an extension for 6 years at $6 million a year. Therefore, theyll both have financial long term security. They both could be duds by 2016. Or have long term concussion or other another type of injury. Who knows what theyd get in the 2016 offseason.

Gravy, athletes do it quite often. And since when isnt $21 enough for a family? Haha :)

Id die to be the captain of the NY Rangers til i retire, and have been a career Ranger. And rake in $21 million over 4 years. And get to work with the Garden of Dreams. Id pay the Rangers $21 million over 4 years for that honor.

Well, on the marketing thing, you could argue that Lundqvist might get more opportunities in a smaller city where he doesn’t have to compete with Jeter and Manning and Tebow and Caramelo. Where he would be on the back page sometimes, and where he would be recognized when he walks down the street. I don’t think he’s made enough “outside” money for that to be a factor in his negotiations as a UFA.

And, yes, if the Rangers went to Callahan or Lundqvist and offered an extension at a big raise, they would probably consider the long-term security to stay, depending on the numbers. But I think the discussion was about what they’d do as UFAs if they ever got there, and if they ever did, IMO, there would be zero reason for them to take a discount.

I find that theory to be like the strong-up-the-middle in baseball theory … yeah, you’d hate to have Babe Ruth in right field and Lou Gehrig at first base and a lot of pitching, but not be strong up the middle.

“NHL Home Ice’ is a satellite radio show for those of us that are THAT sick that we listen to hockey 24/7. It’s on the NHL Radio station/Sirius.

It was an ‘interesting’ theory. I defer to those who know more (much more than I), but as look around and think to even our Ranger great teams, we often had a great goalie and center. Their comments were that the center can make the wings play better (great passes, etc). But the wings can’t do the same for a center.

Yea. I think a one year with Semin is a risk. He has to be locker room cancer. Signing him for a year is saying you don’t want to win the cup for a year, but do want to have a ‘fun’ ‘highlight reel’ team on the ice.

He is like Carmello. Like Stephan Marbury. It’s all about him which means not about the team.

All of this cap space that everyone talks about is based on the expiring CBA. While they might come up with a work-around for this season, that $20 million cushion the year after could be far less depending on what the cap looks like and what the CBA looks like. Teams might not have the luxury to bury Redden-like cap hits in the minors.

I didn’t realize Semin was the only Cap that didn’t perform on all those teams that fell short. Like Backstrom that one year or Varlamov getting exposed as an average goalie when a team not named the Rangers was shooting on him or Boudreau changing his coaching philosophy from everybody’s pal to stern disciplinarian and having the team not buy into it enough.

_his record may be, CCCP, but did you see him in May? My God. If he even tried a little bit the Caps would have played in the ECF instead of the Rangers_

oh yeah remember that season when Flys knocked us out on the last day of the season in the so? if only Gaborik tried a little bit the Rangers wouldnt even have to go to a SO…oh and remember that season when we barely got into the playoffs (thanks, tampa!) and that series when Caps knocked us out? if only Gaborik tried a little bit…the Rangers would have advanced instead of the Caps…oh and remember that Ottawa series last year? if only Gaborik tried a little bit…it wouldnt have to go to game 7… oh and remember the Devils series from last year too? if only Gaborik tried a little bit… :)

Semin actually did a great job blocking shots and playing decent defense in the Rangers series, which was something he was criticized for not doing in the past. Should he have scored more? Yes, but so should Ovechkin and crew. Let’s give the Rangers D a little credit here.

Fact is he’s not a North American born player, so our friends in the media (not saying you, Carp) will always say he’s an underachieving player that doesn’t care and doesn’t try hard, yet someone who is supposedly better yet puts up worse numbers in an average year like Nash gets praised for being elite, just his struggles are attributed to a bad environment and awful teammates.

Carolina is smart. 1 year deal, he’s working for a long term one next year. Fresh start, in the same division as the team that just threw him under the bus. He gets to play with 2 Staal’s and Skinner, get top line minutes, and he’s got a chip on his shoulder. Plus he wants to stay in the NHL. He was getting offered more money in the KHL to go there, so he knows he needs to put up really good numbers to get a great deal next year.

Gotta love it. Starbucks CEO on tv saying Obama needs to do something about helping the economy. Then they play an ad, paid for by Obama’s campaign showing Romney singing “America the Beautiful” while they flash up all these “facts” showing the countries he outsourced jobs to while at Bain and governor. So, the ad says, “he is the problem, not the answer”.

Carp, you are mostly right about first liners, but in the modern era of now-matured draft talent, lets say 2003-2008 drafts, there were really only 2 years we left good pics on the table for bad and that was 03 and 06. Ok, that’s 2 out of five, and we hosed the best year, badly. But find me a worthy first liner after we picked in any other of those years. See my post at 1:33pm.

And is Stepan not a top 6? I think he is, though on the second line at best. We’ll have to see about the new kids, at least they are getting a shot these days.

I was more discussing extensions than UFAs, but if for instance, in the case of being a UFA, only 5 teams had the cap space to sign either of the 2, and we are a successful franchise and the 4 are losers, itd be in the best interest of winning to remain with us.