Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

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Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by chromium

twisting words...i never for a moment said "exploring." But ok, how would you reduce bullying of homosexual kids, without being able to even bring up the topic?

The bullying problem isn't a homosexual problem, Chromium. You have to deal with bullying of homosexuals the same way you have to deal with bullying of the poor kids, the nerds, the ones with lots of zits, the fat ones, the skinny ones, the ones with glasses, the ones that talk funny, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

You deal with the bullying by not tolerating bullying.

You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Papa bull

You are exactly right. To argue that an example of anything that occurs in nature is normal no matter how rare, unusual or bizarre it is means that the word "normal" is just wasting space in a dictionary and is nothing but white noise when used in a sentence.

It's exactly this type of thinking that led to the release of scores of people from mental institutions... and onto the streets and into jails and prisons. "Who are we to say what's normal? They are just different."

When someone says that they don't think that "normal" implies what's typical, they usually mean to imply that we should call such people normal so that we can think of them as typical or treat them as you would the typical case. They're using two contrasting definitions at the same time.

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Papa bull

Or as domestic partnerships would. For the purpose of legal protection and trust that you are arguing, there's no difference.

There is no reason at all to have a different name for something that will be doing the same thing, whether it is for one group or everyone that the name is changed. You, nor those others against same sex couples getting married own the word "marriage" or its meaning. It already covers same sex couples now. And there is nothing fiscally responsible or efficient about changing the relationships to "domestic partnerships" for either just same sex couples or everyone.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Taylor

It's exactly this type of thinking that led to the release of scores of people from mental institutions... and onto the streets and into jails and prisons. "Who are we to say what's normal? They are just different."

Many of the people released from mental institutions were either a) released because of money/financial concerns, or b) they didn't really belong there to begin with. None of it had to do with people saying they were merely "different"/"not normal".

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Papa bull

Look, I completely understand why homosexuals would try to "recruit". I can't tell you how many I've heard tell me that they really want a "straight man", not another queer. It's strange as hell because if they could have them, they wouldn't really be straight men after all. But that's another story. The fact is that the GLBT community does widespread "recruiting". Straight people just call it "seduction", but people do it and normalizing homosexuality would help with that recruitment. The fact that so few homosexuals actually get married should be a clue that marriage itself isn't really the goal here. It is what it is and I don't really care what you or anyone else does sexually. That's your business. I'm just calling it like I see it and I don't see the point in creating the institution of homosexual marriage just for the sake of normalizing homosexuality.

And plenty of straight women say they want a gay man they can convert.

No, they are not "recruiting". That is a stupid and baseless accusation.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Papa bull

That 10% is why I'm on the fence about domestic partnerships and would even be inclined to support a law that provides that. The fact that it's not a marriage doesn't mean that it's not a loving relationship or that there shouldn't be any sort of legal structure to support such an alternative lifestyle arrangement if the participants so desire it. But it's still something that only would apply to 1 in 100 and that frequency only if we consider that 10% of the population is homosexual and 10% of homosexuals marry and both of those statistics are actually on the high side.

You don't own the word marriage or its meaning, so there is no reason for them to not call their relationships "marriages". Your being against their using the term doesn't matter two bits.

"A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by roguenuke

Many of the people released from mental institutions were either a) released because of money/financial concerns, or b) they didn't really belong there to begin with. None of it had to do with people saying they were merely "different"/"not normal".

It arose from a shift in thinking about mental illness toward relativism. This is covered in the abnormal psychology chapter of most introductory psychology texts.

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Taylor

Loving vs Virginia did not declare civil marriage a basic right. Civil marriage, like driving on public roads, requires a license and is more of a privilege than a right. You don't need a license to drive on private property, and you don't need a license to have a private marriage. You have the "right" to do these without government interference.

A very odd interpretation given the case that they were dealing with.

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Papa bull

Or as domestic partnerships would. For the purpose of legal protection and trust that you are arguing, there's no difference.

1. Has there ever been a push by those that oppose Marriage Equality a serious effort to get civil unions/domestic partnerships recognized across state lines like Civil Marriages?

2. Has there ever been a push by those that oppose Marriage Equality a serious effort to get civil unions/domestic partnerships fully and equally recognized by the Federal government like Civil Marriages?

3. Has there ever been a push by those that oppose Marriage Equality a serious effort to get referendums on the ballot to remove civil unions/domestic partnerships BANS they they are the ones responsible for getting passed into State Constitutions in the first place and replace those bans with civil unions/domestic partnerships that are full and equal to Civil Marriage?

Re: Appeals court upholds laws against gay marriage in Michigan, 3 other states

Originally Posted by Papa bull

That 10% is why I'm on the fence about domestic partnerships and would even be inclined to support a law that provides that. The fact that it's not a marriage doesn't mean that it's not a loving relationship or that there shouldn't be any sort of legal structure to support such an alternative lifestyle arrangement if the participants so desire it. But it's still something that only would apply to 1 in 100 and that frequency only if we consider that 10% of the population is homosexual and 10% of homosexuals marry and both of those statistics are actually on the high side.

Does the number of people desiring to participate really influence a decision on individual liberty? I mean, not many people like to dress up and go to a Clown Convention but nobody would consider that to be an argument against making Clown Conventions legal.

He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear