If you were an O you had a 3 prefix in front of your mos, as in 31193 FA Branch w/SF qualifier or 31542 INF Branch with SF qualifier. EM had the S suffix as in 91B4S or 11B4S. Think it didn't change over till the mid-80's

Today I spent a long time with the man about what Ken Hackathorn has said about his time in service and to whom.

The DD214 says no where that he is Special Forces Qualified. I did make a mistake however earlier about his pay grade, he did leave the service as an E-6.

His 214 states that Hackathorns trained with a U.S. Army school is a MOS of Crew Served Weapon. Now I am a swabby and that in the Navy means a crew that serves a weapon not a gunner, pistolera, or shootist.
The 214 does state that his total time in actual training is a wee bit over 9 months out of 6 years, and the rest of the time Hackathorn was in college!!!

Mr. Hackathorn was asked to prove the dispute and he provided two copies of certificates which neither showed his reputed qualifications.

I am by far not a saint, never said I was and probably will never be one, but with that being said I dont embellish my military service, time in rate or grade and I sure the hell dont go around telling stories about being in the Special Forces. If one was to do peridicioal history on Ken there are tons of articles written about him and by him and a large majority mention his service in SF and in Vietnam.

Ken never left the U.S and sure didnt give his blood sweat and tears for this country - the flag - or consitution in Vietnam like some of us did.
I buried 3 friends here in Southern Ohio who gave the ultimate sacrafice to duty in Vietnam and I have had 4 students go off to Iraq and Afganistan and returned and I dont take lightly to fuckers who fake their military service or history and make a profit off from it.

I am by far not a saint, never said I was and probably will never be one, but with that being said I dont embellish my military service, time in rate or grade and I sure the hell dont go around telling stories about being in the Special Forces.

I agree wholeheartedly, it's one of the worst things you can do, in my book.

Some don't like to spread too much personal info on the net. I've done some, but it's very threadbare.

It's used as a baseline to start the vetting process. Otherwise we have guys with zero experience, in anything, spouting off and making false claims. Now of course someone can lie in the profile but we have enough different experience here to figure that out.

If someone needs to remain low vis that they can put the minimum and get vetted by a mod or admin here. If later challenged a mod or admin will resolve the issue. All of this is pretty well spelled out in the appropiate threads.

I would like to say a few words here. I have no clue whether or not Ken Hackathorn is what he says/said, etc he was. I do know, he is quite respected within the firearms community; please take what I am saying with a grain of salt. I have never personally take a course from him.

What I am giving you, is MANY years of firearms experience, in the "civilian" market. Meaning, learning firearms training for the police world. I am the lead firearms instructor for a 250 person police department. Both Guy and Tracy can confirm this. Because of that, I have trained, around the world, with firearms and tactical instructors.

Since Columbine, the North Hollywood Shoot, and now 9/11, there has been a HUGE increase in the need for training patrol officers, for a lack of better terms here, high speed/low drag firearms training. Anyone, with a certain degree of marketing skills, can inflate and, down right lie, about their resume's, to MAKE MONEY.

I've seen it, time and time again. Please, understand, police department "X" sees a cool resume on the internet, etc. Do you really think some admin geek is going to check into their qualifications? No. It isn't going to happen. They are going to go by what is listed, etc.

Most guys who do this, know exactly what they are talking about AND know what they are teaching. However, they do nont have the special operations background, to "bolster" their resume's. So the make up shit, in order to do so.

Yes, I have fallen prey to this. There are firearms instructors out there, NATIONALLY KNOWN, who are CRIMINALS. Who have gone to jail, and who have flat our LIED about their credentials, etc. Having said that, are those persons and/or their training bad? Nope. They know what they are talking about, etc. However, they embellish shit to make themselves more money.

Just remember one thing: There are PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of firearms instructors out there, who don't bullshit. My suggesttion to ANYONE here, looking for firearms training? Do what you do here. VET anyone. Alot are bullshit artists.

Personally, when I am being sued in a federal court for civil rights violations, for killing someone (yes, I have been), I don't want some "questionable" instructor on my resume. I want the top notch, above board, guy who lists the fact he was a cook in the Army; not the guy who was, but said he was a Superninja. Superninja does me no good then (unless he was).

I just wanted to add that, unless something has changed since the '70s, a DD214 is a certificate of release from ACTIVE duty.

My first 5 years were in the reserve components, and the only DD214 I have ever had was from Basic and AIT, showing me as an E-3 upon release (it actually also contained several errors, but I digress).

It may be feasible for someone who was National Guard to have a confusing and limited DD214 if they were never activated after Initial Entry Training. This, of course, is a separate issue from the whole Special Forces thing and the Viet Nam thing - but there may conceivably be multiple DD214s out there.

__________________
During the rectification of the Vuldronaii the Traveler came as a large, moving Torb. Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants they chose a new form for him—that of a giant Sloar. Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Sloar that day, I can tell you.

It's used as a baseline to start the vetting process. Otherwise we have guys with zero experience, in anything, spouting off and making false claims. Now of course someone can lie in the profile but we have enough different experience here to figure that out.

If someone needs to remain low vis that they can put the minimum and get vetted by a mod or admin here. If later challenged a mod or admin will resolve the issue. All of this is pretty well spelled out in the appropiate threads.

Copy that. I've been doing some catch-up reading and am figuring that out.

__________________
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible.- T.E. Lawrence, "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom"

I just wanted to add that, unless something has changed since the '70s, a DD214 is a certificate of release from ACTIVE duty.

My first 5 years were in the reserve components, and the only DD214 I have ever had was from Basic and AIT, showing me as an E-3 upon release (it actually also contained several errors, but I digress).

It may be feasible for someone who was National Guard to have a confusing and limited DD214 if they were never activated after Initial Entry Training. This, of course, is a separate issue from the whole Special Forces thing and the Viet Nam thing - but there may conceivably be multiple DD214s out there.

If this was a NG SF Group then the form that you should be asking for is NGB Form 22, Report of Seperation and Record of Service. Mine is 1 Feb 83, which replaced the NG Form 22-1 of 1 Jun 78, and 15 Oct 76.

This form should cover all periods of State Active Duty, IE AT's and schools that fall under the NGB.