silo warrior wrote:Thanks for clearing up the new rating system. I still think they should go back to the two piece Crew Blues they look a lot sharper than the flight suits. Why are they trying to make missile crews look like aircrews? Everyone knew if they saw the Crew Blues that you were on a Combat Missile Crew and not a aircrew. Who knows they may have you all wearing the white coveralls like the old days before long. Is Maj. Gen Donny Alston still in charge of the missile force? I was at D.M. when he first upgraded to DMCCC pulled a few alerts with him. I figure if he was in charge being and old TITAN II Crew Dog maybe he would get the old crew blues put back into service

Silo Warrior

Money. We don't have any. However, if you'd like to fund the entire crew force on two -piece blues, I'm sure we'd change.

Cory,

We're doing that new mission planning now. I'm getting back to base around 4ish now. (As compared to 2.)

Also, don't rag of the locks (we need to carry them around with us now-a-days), and the flight suits. I'm sure it was a quick photos that wasn't staged for anything big. If you do have a complaint, complain about the "pen tab". We can't wear them anymore. I think they took away a source of pride in our job(as most of us wore something relating to our jobs, and funny stuff on Fridays)

hockey85, what is this "mission planning" of which you speak? Assuming OpSec isn't a problem. Why will it take 3 hours? Back in the dark (missile blue) ages, mission planning would be "I'm trained, I got my -1, warm clothes, my crew, and I know how to get to the LCC. I'm ready (if not rarin') to go guard the country."

Bad SamAmazed am I, to hear such things.Glad am I, no longer to do such things

TerrorOfTucson wrote:hockey85, what is this "mission planning" of which you speak? Assuming OpSec isn't a problem. Why will it take 3 hours? Back in the dark (missile blue) ages, mission planning would be "I'm trained, I got my -1, warm clothes, my crew, and I know how to get to the LCC. I'm ready (if not rarin') to go guard the country."

I can see it now. Mission planning in the pre-pre room with crew members running scenarios - deputies with hands extended yelling out "Hows my air?"Looks like the 10th has a nice pre-pre room compared to what I remember in the 490th 30 years ago - a tiny room with mailboxes and a small table.I can still remember the SQ CC, Col Bud Scott, telling the boys every morning, "It's a great day to be alive in Montana!"

TerrorOfTucson wrote:hockey85, what is this "mission planning" of which you speak? Assuming OpSec isn't a problem. Why will it take 3 hours? Back in the dark (missile blue) ages, mission planning would be "I'm trained, I got my -1, warm clothes, my crew, and I know how to get to the LCC. I'm ready (if not rarin') to go guard the country."

Bad SamAmazed am I, to hear such things.Glad am I, no longer to do such things

The day of alert will all start by Flight staff and WSCE officers (Weapon School graduates) coming together in what will be called the Mission Planning Cell to prepare everything the crews will need for mission planning. The crews will then arrive for a "Quick Look" briefing and get a down and dirty of everything that will be going on that day.... maintenance, exercises, weather, etc., etc. Once that is complete, crews will then go to the OG Commander's Intent briefing where they will be briefed on the intent for that alert (isn't the intent always deterrence, by means of monitoring status and standing ready for missile launch?) Once they have taken notes on the intent for that alert, the crews will then go and conduct mission planning. The new reg specifically states that it should take a minimum of 90 minutes but nominally will take 3 hours to complete. During this mission planning, we will imitate pilots by using whiteboards, our hands to talk, etc. to demonstrate how the alert is expected to play out. We will have to step study every checklist we could possibly see on alert (which is quite a bit, if not every checklist we have, so I don't know how this was thought out). Once we do that we will have to build an alert plan that we want to execute and then "table fly" (those are the exact terms the new reg uses...table fly) the alert. Once we are satisfied our alert plan is good and is fully built, each crew will then have to individually report into the squadron commander's office, present the plan, and request permission to execute the alert. If it's approved, then we can go on our merry way. If not, we have to start the whole process over.

FE Warren has already started this process to test it out. Everything I here from people there say they hate it and it doesn't make a difference in how alert plays out. It just makes the time at base before alert longer. I think the whole process is silly and won't be beneficial. I have been on plenty of busy and crazy alerts, and no amount of "mission planning" would have made them any easier. We are all properly trained in the MPTs and classrooms and know how to do the job. That should be all that matters. It has worked for ~50 years. Malmstrom and Minot are dreadfully awaiting the implementation of the new mission planning at their wings. I relate this whole process to the whole 3 day alert fiasco that was tried a couple years ago. Crewmembers hate it, it looks good on paper but in practice doesn't really work and is not beneficial. However, we all know how crewmember's opinions are taken. So in the end, it will be fully implemented, thereby decreasing missileer's morale even more with no benefit in the end.

I am in complete agreement with you Hockey. A few things come to mind:

1. If crews still dispatch in same vehicle with the FM, cook (Chef, sorry) or maybe security forces on occasion, who-must-wait-for-who while the crew is deeply and passionately (I'm sure)/totally immersed in mission planning?

2. Pilots do not fly 24 hour plus missions nor do they drive up to 140 miles one way to get to their aircraft-they were always back in time for happy hour - so much for the crew bears.

3. How can a squadron commander listen to these briefs day after day? Seems to me these briefings will soon be reduced to the level of the mandatory vehicle safety briefings the crew used to give every driver every time they departed the LCF: buckle up, headlights on, do not swerve to hit or miss - drive safe.

4. Is this an inspection item? I'd love to see the IG (or whomever) sit through these marathon sessions, and then render judgment.

5. I cannot continue -- this is farcical to say the least.

Good luck guys; hopefully it will soon be recognized as a waste of time and be done away with.

ILCS20 wrote:2. Pilots do not fly 24 hour plus missions nor do they drive up to 140 miles one way to get to their aircraft-they were always back in time for happy hour - so much for the crew bears.

This is not correct for TACAMO/ALCS as there have been occasions of long endurance flights of greater than 24 hrs aloft. True there are 3 pilots typically aboard but you are rotating work rest and the first 10-12 hours they typically do not rest. Not unlike current missile crews where you are up for some duration and then resting for some duration (one at a time).

No we didn't drive that distance to get to the aircraft, why would we? We take it where we want to go not leave it somewhere and drive far away.

Lastly, we take the beer with us. You can't always count on when your crew day is going to be over and I have had many, too many that ended at 0500 in the early morning and want a beer or two. But that is deployed life. Life is not defined by days, only hours.

Hockey, my good man...you have my deepest sympathy. The boys and girls at the Rocket Ranch, too; and all who will have to follow you until somebody with enough rank to make it stick says "This is NUTS!" The alert day is long enough with Pre-D and driving out and driving back. Next they'll want a "mission de-brief" to add onto the insanity and wasted time. Maybe it's an evil plot to get people to resign their commissions.

Bad SamMy time was long ago and far away, and what I hear makes me glad it was.

This new mission planning sounds like the worst idea in a very long time. When I pulled alerts in the 80s, you could show up at the wing building at 7:58 for 8 o'clock pre-d, and be on the road by 8:30. Then I came back in '99, and they had added a pre-pre D (mainly to make sure people were going to show up for pre-D). So now you had to be there by 7:30, and pre-D itself was a lot longer, so you didn't get on the road until almost 9. But this is ridiculous. Table fly an alert? That's what the MPT is for.

Ironman -- I should have said "Air Force fighter pilots" and thanks for bringing back the fond memories of the nice sounds emanating from our 487l SLFCS courtesy of TACAMO LANT, in my case TACAMO never enetred into mind when I made made my post. Hats of to TACAMO for the endurance type missions.

I'm forced to wonder where that Mission Planning crap came from. Either someone at HQ wanting to make a name for themselves at the expense of the crews or someone who has no clue what MCCs actually do but has authority over them (too often, a pilot).

I saw a lot of dumb things during my years in SAC, but this might top all of them for stupidest. My heart goes out to every missileer who must sit through what is clearly nothing but busy work.