Anyone who doesn't love Dwight should be put on ignore? I don't think Howard has done anything to put us over the edge. We are 7 and 8 and we now have the player most everyone thought was the answer to all our problems. The truth is I have nothing against Dwight except for the fact that everyone is so in love with him.

You guys put him on such a high pedestal, and he hasn't changed anything and I never thought he would. We are now worse than we were a year ago, yet Howard is great? I don't understand the logic. I agree this bad record is not Howards fault, but he definitely has not proven thus far to be the answer he was built up to be. If we go 41 and 41 will all Howard fans still covet him as they did before? Just saying.

I want the Lakers to win and thus far he hasn't showed me anything that leads me to believe he will help us win a championship. That is the goal, isn't it? It's just fine if everyone hates on Pau or whoever but when someone isn't very happy with Dwight then they must be a troll. That is hypocritical. If I were to call all Howard fans a troll and keep defending Pau then it's crossing the line, but if a fan sticks with liking Pau and disses Howard then he's a troll? I didn't know we had to all like the same players. What gives?

The Lakers aren't going to win games if our role players aren't able to knock down shots, or if we have to play Kobe at the point and not have teammates in their places when he needs help. Those are the main two things that are losing us games...not being able to knock down long-range shots (inconsistent 3PT shooting team, probably 16-17th in the league now) and turnovers (among the worst in the league).

Dwight is on the floor for the shooters. Kobe is on the floor for Gasol. The shooters, and Gasol, are playing badly. This team isn't going to go anywhere with two contributing players, doesn't matter who those two are.

Kobe is also still the primary option on this team. I doubt even LeBron would take that from him (Bron would facilitate much more, land probably 10 assists a night). Dwight isn't going to average 30 with Kobe, Gasol, Jamison and Artest on the court (no Nash, but once he's out there, he'll take another double-digit average), and with Hill, Gasol, Kobe, Jamison and Artest all being good rebounders at their positions, Dwight isn't going to pull down 15 boards a night, either.

He's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, most definitely back on defense. He and Kobe get their teammates wide open, enough to do a quick 2-3 push-ups before the shot, and they still miss. Howard can't change that.

The Lakers aren't going to win games if our role players aren't able to knock down shots, or if we have to play Kobe at the point and not have teammates in their places when he needs help. Those are the main two things that are losing us games...not being able to knock down long-range shots (inconsistent 3PT shooting team, probably 16-17th in the league now) and turnovers (among the worst in the league).

Dwight is on the floor for the shooters. Kobe is on the floor for Gasol. The shooters, and Gasol, are playing badly. This team isn't going to go anywhere with two contributing players, doesn't matter who those two are.

Kobe is also still the primary option on this team. I doubt even LeBron would take that from him (Bron would facilitate much more, land probably 10 assists a night). Dwight isn't going to average 30 with Kobe, Gasol, Jamison and Artest on the court (no Nash, but once he's out there, he'll take another double-digit average), and with Hill, Gasol, Kobe, Jamison and Artest all being good rebounders at their positions, Dwight isn't going to pull down 15 boards a night, either.

He's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing, most definitely back on defense. He and Kobe get their teammates wide open, enough to do a quick 2-3 push-ups before the shot, and they still miss. Howard can't change that.

Really? Dwight is just to be here for defense? If so and it works then that is great. I thought he was brought here to be more than just a Tyson Chandler type player that passes the ball out. If Dwight is doing everything he was brought here to do, then it proves my point that Dwight wasn't the answer to our previous problems because it isn't resulting in more wins. I actually think that Dwight is doing fine, but that doesn't mean he is changing the game so much that it is resulting in wins. I keep hearing that he is like Shaq and it's O.K. if he misses free throws etc because Shaq did and so therefore it's O.K. if he does.

He does not bring what Shaq brought so his shortcomings such as FT's can not be over looked. What was he tonight from the line, 3 of 12 or something like that? I'm sorry, but when fans say Shaq missed free throws, etc and we still won championships it's not the same. Howard is not that great dude. I don't see him being any better for us than a player like Tyson Chandler could be for us. Dwight is supposed to be "Superman" and I just don't see it..

Do you seriously see us winning a championship with Dwight as our leader? He's supposed to be the man when Kobe retires right? That's all I've heard. I don't see it. I'm sorry, and it's not a slight on Dwight. I just have never seen what everybody else seemed to see. He is not a top 5 player in my book, yet he does no wrong when it comes to his play with most Laker fans. .. It scares me dude. I seriously don't see it...

P.S. The one thing that really gets to me is all the hate Pau gets and how he should be traded and that he sucks so much and yet Howard gets a pass. The last I saw, Pau helped us to 3 finals appearances and 2 final championships. Howard hasn't done squat and yet everything he touches turns to gold. To me it's pathetic and uncalled for. Yes he had 3 defensive players of the year but he has yet to do for us what Gasol has done yet he is blameless. I will never get used to that until Howard does the same. It's a cheap shot toward Pau, not to everybody else apparently, but to me it is... Howard is still ring less, lest we forget...

BTW Real Deal, you have great arguments. I respect your arguments and opinions. You have real insights toward the game. I will take and accept a lot of heat toward my arguments when it comes from you than I would toward other posters that just call names and leave it at that. I see why you have so much respect on this site. You are a great poster... Not that you need or care about my respect, I give it to you...

P.S. The one thing that really gets to me is all the hate Pau gets and how he should be traded and that he sucks so much and yet Howard gets a pass. The last I saw, Pau helped us to 3 finals appearances and 2 final championships. Howard hasn't done squat and yet everything he touches turns to gold. To me it's pathetic and uncalled for. Yes he had 3 defensive players of the year but he has yet to do for us what Gasol has done yet he is blameless. I will never get used to that until Howard does the same. It's a cheap shot toward Pau, not to everybody else apparently, but to me it is... Howard is still ring less, lest we forget...

People are annoyed with Pau because of what he has done lately. I'm sure everyone is grateful for everything he's done in the past, but that's just it, it's the past. When you play for an organization that has high expectations and the fans demand excellence, you can't play poorly for a long period of time. That's what he's done.

I've been one of his supporters the past couple of years when people wanted him gone, but after tonight I've changed my opinion and want him gone as well. He's not the same guy that helped lead us to three straight finals.

As for Dwight, what do you want the guy to do right now? He isn't even 100% healthy. The guy is still getting into basketball shape and trying to get his timing down. Also, how can you compare what Dwight has done to what Pau has? Dwight has been here 15 games. Give it time.

Really? Dwight is just to be here for defense? If so and it works then that is great. I thought he was brought here to be more than just a Tyson Chandler type player that passes the ball out. If Dwight is doing everything he was brought here to do, then it proves my point that Dwight wasn't the answer to our previous problems because it isn't resulting in more wins. I actually think that Dwight is doing fine, but that doesn't mean he is changing the game so much that it is resulting in wins. I keep hearing that he is like Shaq and it's O.K. if he misses free throws etc because Shaq did and so therefore it's O.K. if he does.

1) Tyson Chandler has never averaged 14 PPG. Dwight is giving us nearly 20 a night (and possibly more, when Nash gets back, because of all the P&R action he'll see.

2) Chandler never attempted more than 5 FTA/G in a season. Howard doubles that.

3) Chandler doesn't draw double teams and kick the ball back out, nor is he always intentionally fouled because he's so close to the rim.

4) Only twice in his career has Chandler grabbed double-digit boards.

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Howard and Chandler are two different beasts, and I never said all Howard was here for was defense. In fact, in many posts before, I stated that he gets teams in foul trouble quicker than anyone (including LeBron) with the ball in his hands. He demands defensive attention from more than just one player, most of the time. He gives you nearly 20 points on some of the highest percentages in the NBA, with OR without help.

That's not just defense.

He does not bring what Shaq brought so his shortcomings such as FT's can not be over looked. What was he tonight from the line, 3 of 12 or something like that? I'm sorry, but when fans say Shaq missed free throws, etc and we still won championships it's not the same. Howard is not that great dude. I don't see him being any better for us than a player like Tyson Chandler could be for us. Dwight is supposed to be "Superman" and I just don't see it..

He isn't Shaq, but he's far from a Chandler. Calling him that is an insult. Chandler is lucky Howard fell to injury last season, or else he would not have won DPOY...and furthermore, again, Chandler's offensive game is nowhere near Howard's, simply because Tyson has to be spoon-fed his points, or he needs to grab o-boards. Dwight just needs the ball, simple as that.

Howard is shooting 48% from the charity stripe as of right now. Shaq was under 50% seven times in his career, shot 48% once in LA and once in Orlando (and additionally, a season of 49% in LA in 2004).

Of course, Shaq was more offense...but his defense was bad, especially P&R, and unlike Dwight, back on offense, he took up space...sometimes too much. The only benefit we had with him on defense is that he was in the lane...but teams solved that problem quickly, by pounding us with P&R. Howard can defend it...and Shaq was one of the worst P&R centers in the NBA at that time.

Both are efficient. Howard and Shaq linger(ed) around 57-60% from the floor all season long.

Both are excellent rebounders. Shaq has never touched 14+ RPG, while Dwight has in a season (two seasons, actually).

Dwight is closer to Shaq than he is Chandler.

Do you seriously see us winning a championship with Dwight as our leader? He's supposed to be the man when Kobe retires right? That's all I've heard. I don't see it. I'm sorry, and it's not a slight on Dwight. I just have never seen what everybody else seemed to see. He is not a top 5 player in my book, yet he does no wrong when it comes to his play with most Laker fans. .. It scares me dude. I seriously don't see it...

How is Dwight not a top five player? Aside from LeBron and Kobe, it's hard for me to stick anyone ahead of him. Maybe Durant, if I'm flipping a coin and being biased. That's three. CP3 is the only other guy, and he has yet to lead any team anywhere significant. Melo isn't there. Wade is playing like he's 35 right now. Duncan is off and on nowadays. Nobody else comes close.

P.S. The one thing that really gets to me is all the hate Pau gets and how he should be traded and that he sucks so much and yet Howard gets a pass. The last I saw, Pau helped us to 3 finals appearances and 2 final championships. Howard hasn't done squat and yet everything he touches turns to gold. To me it's pathetic and uncalled for. Yes he had 3 defensive players of the year but he has yet to do for us what Gasol has done yet he is blameless. I will never get used to that until Howard does the same. It's a cheap shot toward Pau, not to everybody else apparently, but to me it is... Howard is still ring less, lest we forget...

Gasol helped us win two rings in 2009 and 2010. So did Lamar Odom. Do you want Odom back? Just two years ago, Odom was arguably an all-star, best sixth man in the NBA.

In fact, Odom was a Laker longer than Gasol...since 2004-05. Doesn't mean squat.

BTW Real Deal, you have great arguments. I respect your arguments and opinions. You have real insights toward the game. I will take and accept a lot of heat toward my arguments when it comes from you than I would toward other posters that just call names and leave it at that. I see why you have so much respect on this site. You are a great poster... Not that you need or care about my respect, I give it to you...

I appreciate it, but the sole reason why I put up these forums in 2008 was to create a community that could disperse and share basketball knowledge, and not necessarily just the Lakers. I do what I can to cover bases, and to argue both sides. I'm simply telling you, right now, that I can't find a single argument that lays a lot of blame at Howard's feet...nor any reason to say that he's not performing well enough for us right now, given the current state of this team (new offense, Nash and Blake injured, Dwight nursing a sore back, new coach that doesn't necessarily like post players, sharing the ball with another superstar scorer).

Kobe and Howard in P&R action isn't going to be tough to defend when the rest of the team can't hit the backboard with the ball. Once we put the ball in Nash's hands for the P&R, teams will have to keep Kobe in range, which means they won't be able to defend it as easily...and that's when things get interesting with our trio (Gasol is no longer included as a fourth star, until he steps up).

You can expect people to put you on blast for still having Bynum as your favorite Laker in your user details...but it's really noticeable when you're blasting Howard almost every other post, especially in game topics. Not only that, but you were doing it so much during the summer, people were anticipating your return once we started hearing Drew was out until December or January. I'm not handing suspensions out to anyone, including you, hoping that all of you can handle the back-and-forth jabs, as long as they aren't too personal...you've delivered your share, also, although it feels like you're getting hit with more only because Bynum is now in Philly, and few like him anymore.

When you go and ask people that criticize Gasol why they aren't blaming Howard, you're doing that while most of us are wanting Gasol amnestied. We don't care. You ask it when he gets blocked twice, gives up a layup, comes down and misses a dunk, goes back on the other end and gets a blocking foul. First thing we do is see your name.

If you would show more interest in everyone else, rather than just Howard, I'm sure things would change.

Really? Dwight is just to be here for defense? If so and it works then that is great. I thought he was brought here to be more than just a Tyson Chandler type player that passes the ball out. If Dwight is doing everything he was brought here to do, then it proves my point that Dwight wasn't the answer to our 1: previous problems because it isn't resulting in more wins. I actually think that Dwight is doing fine, but that doesn't mean he is changing the game so much that it is resulting in wins. 2: I keep hearing that he is like Shaq and it's O.K. if he misses free throws etc because Shaq did and so therefore it's O.K. if he does.

He does not bring what Shaq brought so his shortcomings such as FT's can not be over looked. What was he tonight from the line, 3 of 12 or something like that? I'm sorry, but when fans say Shaq missed free throws, etc and 3: we still won championships it's not the same. Howard is not that great dude. I don't see him being any better for us than a player like Tyson Chandler could be for us. Dwight is supposed to be "Superman" and I just don't see it..

4: Do you seriously see us winning a championship with Dwight as our leader? He's supposed to be the man when Kobe retires right? That's all I've heard. I don't see it. I'm sorry, and it's not a slight on Dwight. I just have never seen what everybody else seemed to see. He is not a top 5 player in my book, yet he does no wrong when it comes to his play with most Laker fans. .. It scares me dude. I seriously don't see it...

P.S. The one thing that really gets to me is all the hate Pau gets and how he should be traded and that he sucks so much and yet Howard gets a pass.5. The last I saw, Pau helped us to 3 finals appearances and 2 final championships.6.Howard hasn't done squat and yet everything he touches turns to gold. To me it's pathetic and uncalled for. Yes he had 3 defensive players of the year but he has yet to do for us what Gasol has done yet he is blameless. I will never get used to that until Howard does the same. It's a cheap shot toward Pau, not to everybody else apparently, but to me it is... Howard is still ring less, lest we forget...

BTW Real Deal, you have great arguments. I respect your arguments and opinions. You have real insights toward the game. I will take and accept a lot of heat toward my arguments when it comes from you than I would toward other posters that just call names and leave it at that. I see why you have so much respect on this site. You are a great poster... Not that you need or care about my respect, I give it to you...

1: previous problemsin your eyes, what were our previous problems? because when i think of our team last year it was bad interior defense and even worst pick and roll defense. guess what, howard fixes both of those.

2: I keep hearing that he is like ShaqWho are you hearing this from? Try and find somebody in these forums who has said that, cause i can't remember anybody (who has a respectful opinion) who has made that comparison. aside from the "superman" nickname they both have, these two are nothing alike. we will likely never see another talent like shaq.

3: we still won championships it's not the same.Shaq didn't win a championship in Los Angeles til his 3rd year here. Did that make him mediocre? How many years has Dwight been here? Oh yeah, 15 games.

4: Do you seriously see us winning a championship with Dwight as our leader?Dwight took a mediocre Magic team to the finals (granted the LBJ was still in cleveland, and the celtics were KG-less, but still a [expletive]in feat... their second best player was Hedo [expletive]in Turkoglu!). i'm willing to bet he'll make it to the promised land with Kobe, if not this year, next.

5. The last I saw, Pau helped us to 3 finals appearances and 2 final championships.And when was the last of these finals appearances? 2 years ago. Guess what, the last I saw Pau played, it resembled a flaming piece of [expletive] - that was tonight. Dude needs to go. And are you REALLY siding with Pau over Dwight? Kill me now.

6.Howard hasn't done squat and yet everything he touches turns to gold.Do you not understand Dwight Howard is nearly 7 feet tall, upwards of 250lbs, has not played for nearly a year, and is coming off of back surgery? Do you know how important the human back is? Do you know how important the human back is to a 7 foot, 250lb PROFESSIONAL athlete? Cuz it doesn't sound like you do. And your right, Dwight hasn't done anything cuz he's only been in the purple & gold for 15 games...

People are annoyed with Pau because of what he has done lately. I'm sure everyone is grateful for everything he's done in the past, but that's just it, it's the past. When you play for an organization that has high expectations and the fans demand excellence, you can't play poorly for a long period of time. That's what he's done.

I've been one of his supporters the past couple of years when people wanted him gone, but after tonight I've changed my opinion and want him gone as well. He's not the same guy that helped lead us to three straight finals.

As for Dwight, what do you want the guy to do right now? He isn't even 100% healthy. The guy is still getting into basketball shape and trying to get his timing down. Also, how can you compare what Dwight has done to what Pau has? Dwight has been here 15 games. Give it time.

I totally agree. Howard is not 100%. What's the slight on Pau then? He is not 100% either, he has problems with both knees. He has tendonitis in both knees. Why is Howard benefited the doubt for his poor health yet Pau isn't. Why the double standard?

I totally agree. Howard is not 100%. What's the slight on Pau then? He is not 100% either, he has problems with both knees. He has tendonitis in both knees. Why is Howard benefited the doubt for his poor health yet Pau isn't. Why the double standard?

Last season, it was his hamstring. The season before, we all thought it was some emotional problem (and some suggested he was feuding with Kobe). He also supposedly had a shoulder issue (maybe the shoulder injury was last year, hammy two years ago...can't remember).

That's just all talk. Maybe some of it is true, maybe some is not. Dwight really did have surgery, and it was less than a year ago. He shouldn't be back, according to a couple of doctors back in the summer (when I read he may not return until January) and based on how long it took my friend's dad to heal from a similar back surgery (basically nine months, and he's not playing a professional sport).

Even at full health, Gasol showed he was afraid of contact, didn't like the low post, didn't have the stamina to play effectively for 40 minutes, didn't have the finish around the rim like Howard does, didn't play much defense at all (mostly because he hates physicality), and wasn't aggressive enough on the offensive end.

I'm starting to believe that age is the true reason he's struggling, physically, and his mental issues (just not wanting to put forth the effort anymore) stem from not being Kobe's Robin anymore.

1: previous problemsin your eyes, what were our previous problems? because when i think of our team last year it was bad interior defense and even worst pick and roll defense. guess what, howard fixes both of those.

2: I keep hearing that he is like ShaqWho are you hearing this from? Try and find somebody in these forums who has said that, cause i can't remember anybody (who has a respectful opinion) who has made that comparison. aside from the "superman" nickname they both have, these two are nothing alike. we will likely never see another talent like shaq.

3: we still won championships it's not the same.Shaq didn't win a championship in Los Angeles til his 3rd year here. Did that make him mediocre? How many years has Dwight been here? Oh yeah, 15 games.

4: Do you seriously see us winning a championship with Dwight as our leader?Dwight took a mediocre Magic team to the finals (granted the LBJ was still in cleveland, and the celtics were KG-less, but still a [expletive]in feat... their second best player was Hedo [expletive]in Turkoglu!). i'm willing to bet he'll make it to the promised land with Kobe, if not this year, next.

5. The last I saw, Pau helped us to 3 finals appearances and 2 final championships.And when was the last of these finals appearances? 2 years ago. Guess what, the last I saw Pau played, it resembled a flaming piece of [expletive] - that was tonight. Dude needs to go. And are you REALLY siding with Pau over Dwight? Kill me now.

6.Howard hasn't done squat and yet everything he touches turns to gold.Do you not understand Dwight Howard is nearly 7 feet tall, upwards of 250lbs, has not played for nearly a year, and is coming off of back surgery? Do you know how important the human back is? Do you know how important the human back is to a 7 foot, 250lb PROFESSIONAL athlete? Cuz it doesn't sound like you do. And your right, Dwight hasn't done anything cuz he's only been in the purple & gold for 15 games...

You lost me. We didn't lose last year because of our interior defense. We lost because Kobe shot us out of games 2 and 4 against OKC. We had big leads in those 2 game sand Kobe shot us out of those games. We had a 7 point lead in game 2 with 2 minutes left and Kobe took every shot after that, and missed them all, and he also turned the ball over a couple of times, one he passed right to Durant for an easy dunk. Whether any Laker fan likes it or not, Kobe lost game 2 in the last 2 minutes.

In game 4 we had a 13 pt lead with 7 minutes left and Kobe went 1 for 9 down that stretch shooting us out of the game. I defy you to prove me wrong. I will go second by second games 2 and 4 down the stretch where Kobe himself tried to be the hero and screwed us with his play. I will go play by play in games 2 and 4 with any Laker fan here. We had the leads and would have beaten the Thunder if Kobe played smarter and didn't try to be the hero. Our interior defense was not the problem. Bring up the tapes. i will challenge anybody. If Kobe didn't screw us at the end of both of those games, we would have beaten the Thunder 4 to 1. Anybody got the tapes?

Anyone can come and say I'm full of ish, but I will put my money on the line and go play by play those 2 games. Just because you are blind doesn't mean you are right. I'll put it on the line. Will anyone else?

I'm tired of defending myself. I will bet the 1st person $100 that the Lakers will not win it all this year. I base it on everyone's blindness. No I don't want the Lakers to lose this year, I want a ring. But since everyone is so fixated on our weak interior play last year and the laziness of Bynum and hate of Gasol I am glad to enter this bet, Actually I will tell you what, we don't even have to win the finals. I will bet the 1st person that accepts this bet that the Lakers won't even make it to the finals, let alone win it.

The 1st person to accept this bet is all in. $100. I'm not betting the whole Laker Nation family, just the 1st person. The denial is getting old. Who accepts this challenge??? Anybody who is so dead set on Howard being so great should have no problem. He's the greatest thing to happen to the Lakers and since we just missed the conference finals because of Bynum and Gasol and since Howard is so perfect then this should be an easy bet. Who's down?

why don't we take a look at an interesting stat from those very same western conference semis...

43.4 field goal percentage.

can u guess what Laker player shot that FG% against the thunder in last years playoffs?

So androsays you are the one that is betting me. Great, I was hoping it was either you or Majesty, Projekt, LakeShow 805. Lakers stand 2.0 etc. The bet is on... Let the best fan win...It should be an easy win for you. I'm tired of all the hate toward me just because i stand by my convictions. We should all have our voice heard here and to hate on someone because they don't believe the same things you and others do doesn't mean we can't be heard. We are not all followers, we all have a voice....

Anyone who doesn't love Dwight should be put on ignore? I don't think Howard has done anything to put us over the edge. We are 7 and 8 and we now have the player most everyone thought was the answer to all our problems. The truth is I have nothing against Dwight except for the fact that everyone is so in love with him.

You guys put him on such a high pedestal, and he hasn't changed anything and I never thought he would. We are now worse than we were a year ago, yet Howard is great? I don't understand the logic. I agree this bad record is not Howards fault, but he definitely has not proven thus far to be the answer he was built up to be. If we go 41 and 41 will all Howard fans still covet him as they did before? Just saying.

I want the Lakers to win and thus far he hasn't showed me anything that leads me to believe he will help us win a championship. That is the goal, isn't it? It's just fine if everyone hates on Pau or whoever but when someone isn't very happy with Dwight then they must be a troll.?That is hypocritical. If I were to call all Howard fans a troll and keep defending Pau then it's crossing the line, but if a fan sticks with liking Pau and disses Howard then he's a troll? I didn't know we had to all like the same players. What gives?

Tell you what, the next time someone keeps putting down Pau and wants him traded, which happens nightly, I will call him a troll and ask for a ban. If someone puts down Howard he's a troll and should be banned, so what's the difference?

I'm tired of defending myself. I will bet the 1st person $100 that the Lakers will not win it all this year. I base it on everyone's blindness. No I don't want the Lakers to lose this year, I want a ring. But since everyone is so fixated on our weak interior play last year and the laziness of Bynum and hate of Gasol I am glad to enter this bet, Actually I will tell you what, we don't even have to win the finals. I will bet the 1st person that accepts this bet that the Lakers won't even make it to the finals, let alone win it.

The 1st person to accept this bet is all in. $100. I'm not betting the whole Laker Nation family, just the 1st person. The denial is getting old. Who accepts this challenge??? Anybody who is so dead set on Howard being so great should have no problem. He's the greatest thing to happen to the Lakers and since we just missed the conference finals because of Bynum and Gasol and since Howard is so perfect then this should be an easy bet. Who's down?

i wont bet $100 because i dont want to do over the internet. But ill make a bet with you that if they win, you have to change your display name to Dwight Howard's biggest fan and ill change my name to w/e you want.