This is two room separated by a simple zone portal. Lava zone identical to yours is in the other room. The result? No weapon loss. You can even directly swap your lava zone into it and see it still won't have the effect.

Once you scale a brush and build the map it fucks everything up. You have to start fresh, you can't even have the old map open and rebuild parts of it. I'll bet you can reproduce the error by importing your map into this and rebuilding the whole thing.

Pitchfork mob stands ready. Let me know when I can send them over I kid you Funky, this is how we all get better. I know this sucks to find out. I hate it too since scaling brushes is such an easy way to fit things. You just can't use it with subtractive geometry because it destroys the BSP calculations.

EDIT: I tested and it did exactly what I thought: When you copy my map over into yours my new area behaves like yours does. Inventory is deleted. The lava zone is leaking out all over the map because the BSP tree is corrupt.

"You damn kids, back in my time we made the items, maps and games ourselves with an unwieldy engine using counter-intuitive crash-prone tools and we liked it so much we built communities around this which nowadays look like cults because they're quasi-parallel societies based on the same old games." -Hellkeeper

This is two room separated by a simple zone portal. Lava zone identical to yours is in the other room. The result? No weapon loss. You can even directly swap your lava zone into it and see it still won't have the effect.

Once you scale a brush and build the map it fucks everything up. You have to start fresh, you can't even have the old map open and rebuild parts of it. I'll bet you can reproduce the error by importing your map into this and rebuilding the whole thing.

Pitchfork mob stands ready. Let me know when I can send them over I kid you Funky, this is how we all get better. I know this sucks to find out. I hate it too since scaling brushes is such an easy way to fit things. You just can't use it with subtractive geometry because it destroys the BSP calculations.

EDIT: I tested and it did exactly what I thought: When you copy my map over into yours my new area behaves like yours does. Inventory is deleted. The lava zone is leaking out all over the map because the BSP tree is corrupt.

Yeah I knew it already but I always preferred to scale brushes and find workarounds which yes, led to some maps having kill zones, but with how many maps compared to the amount of maps I've made? I swear I can't even imagine to build an entire map checking the size numbers for every single brush. Also there's always math behind every scaled brush, they'll always be aligned to grid no matter what.

I think you are mixing a couple of conceptual ideas. Yes, there's math behind the brush but a scaled brush can easily get into ten-thousandths math. There's no grid when you are dealing with that level of precision. That's why it's important that the entire map follows a relative baseline. It ensures that all calculations are relative to each other. If a subtractive brush has scaling then where is that exact boundary line and vertex at? Does the brush that's up against it have exact parallel? If it's off by even a tiny margin and you are subtracting again then you have over/underlap and neither one is good news. That's why I urge people to just never use it. Nothing good is going to happen.

"You damn kids, back in my time we made the items, maps and games ourselves with an unwieldy engine using counter-intuitive crash-prone tools and we liked it so much we built communities around this which nowadays look like cults because they're quasi-parallel societies based on the same old games." -Hellkeeper

I think you are mixing a couple of conceptual ideas. Yes, there's math behind the brush but a scaled brush can easily get into ten-thousandths math. There's no grid when you are dealing with that level of precision. That's why it's important that the entire map follows a relative baseline. It ensures that all calculations are relative to each other. If a subtractive brush has scaling then where is that exact boundary line and vertex at? Does the brush that's up against it have exact parallel? If it's off by even a tiny margin and you are subtracting again then you have over/underlap and neither one is good news. That's why I urge people to just never use it. Nothing good is going to happen.

Well what you're saying happens only if you click on Toggle Drag Grid, but if you don't there will always be a grid which will be proportional to the number you choose in the Drag Grid Size list input.

I see where you think that you are correct. Multiplying out the values seems to keep you on the grid. You'd have to ask someone like Wormbo or Smirf the actual 'why' part but when the engine computes BSP and the level brushes have scaling applied to them it's been my experience that things go wonky fast (as I've shown).

I'm right there with you in that it shouldn't be this way...But it just is. Yet another thing to add to the It-Don't-Make-Sense editor pile.

post-scaling.jpg (113.24 KiB) Viewed 90 times

"You damn kids, back in my time we made the items, maps and games ourselves with an unwieldy engine using counter-intuitive crash-prone tools and we liked it so much we built communities around this which nowadays look like cults because they're quasi-parallel societies based on the same old games." -Hellkeeper