wrcstl wrote:Does anyone have any experience or TNs of '04 vs '05 Muscadet, particularly Pepiere and Luneau-Papin? Florida Jim, if you are out there what do you think?

I think Dave hit the nail on the head: In general, DYA, and the '05s and the '04s are both splendid. I've got some '05 Pepieres settling down from their trip and can hardly wait to try them, although after my sad experience in wasting a travel-shocked '05 Brun Beaujolais from the same box, I'm gun-shy and putting it off for a bit. I think they've settled down now, though.

Not with those producers, sorry. I've liked both very much (based on my limited sampling). The 04s are maybe more to my taste as they are zippier. The 05s are zippier than the 03s and are quite lovely, but very friendly and fruity. Though maybe with those producers things are different.

I don't drink wine because of religious reasons ... only for other reasons.

They are both fine vintages. '05 has a little more gras, '04 a little more zip. But you would be very happy with either, or both.

DYA is very poor advice IMO on these two producers, except for the cuvees in plastic cork. I've recently had Ollivier's wines back into the '80s, and an amazing taste of '76 Luneau-Papin L d'Or that rocked my world. I still have almost a case of L-P's '89 L d'Or, having consumed probably another case in great joy. The wine is in no danger of going over the hill. I only wish I had more than a couple of bottles of Ollivier's '96 Clos des Briords left. The wine is still young.

OTOH, it is probably time to drink up '93 Briords. In the next few years.

Not that they aren't delicious young, but if you have storage you should keep some.

[quote="SFJoe"]
DYA is very poor advice IMO on these two producers, except for the cuvees in plastic cork. I've recently had Ollivier's wines back into the '80s, and an amazing taste of '76 Luneau-Papin L d'Or that rocked my world. I still have almost a case of L-P's '89 L d'Or, having consumed probably another case in great joy. The wine is in no danger of going over the hill. I only wish I had more than a couple of bottles of Ollivier's '96 Clos des Briords left. The wine is still young.
quote]

Joe,
Thanks for the comments. I tend to drink all of my wines with age on them and DYA seemed a little extreme for these two producers but maybe more of a personal preference. I had the '99 PAPIN CLOS DES ALLIES this weekend and it was fantastic. Can't seem to hold on to them long enough to age. Was just curious about '04 vs '05. Will be getting some '05 from CSW and found 2002 Luneau-Papin Muscadet Sèvre et Maine sur Lie "L d'Or" and 2004 Luneau-Papin Muscadet Pierre de la Grange at Crush which I will order. Any comments on these two wines?
Walt

There are a few more wines that didn't make your list. I don't have the urge to rank-order them, they are different wines. The Eden, for instance, is in the more typical gneiss and schiste of Muscadet, and in many ways is a very good version of that sort of thing. The Pepiere is excellent stuff in its own right, and ages well, but probably shouldn't be kept now since it has shorter-term closures. Both the Pepiere and the Briords are in granite. Less than 10% of Muscadet has granite soil, so these are unusual wines. I love them, but you could make a case that they are oddballs. Or, you could call them grands crus.

Both producers are taking some old-vine sites, pruning them for very low yields, aging them at least 2 years on the lees, and otherwise making special bottlings of them. These haven't been released. A bit more about them buried here

Marc also has a bottling called Moulin de Gustaie that is from younger vines in gneiss. Luneau has several other wines, not all of them imported to the US.

SFJoe wrote:Both producers are taking some old-vine sites, pruning them for very low yields, aging them at least 2 years on the lees, and otherwise making special bottlings of them. These haven't been released. A bit more about them buried here

SFJoe,
Thanks for all the info. Making a 2-3 case raid in CSW and Crush, mostly '05 Briords and '02 & '04 L d'Or plus a few bottles of '05 sur lie for early drinking.
Walt