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Cacturne(f) – Rocky HelmetSand Veil
252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HPAdamant (+Attack; -Sp. Attack)-Encore
-Sucker Punch-Spikes
-Magic Coat
**Okay, my new Cacturne. Got rid of Swords Dance and Focus Blast. Sucker Punch for a good speed priority move. Thank you Drakow for the suggestions and totally unique set. I love it. Encore to get them stuck in a set up and Magic Coat to do the rest. Layer Spikes. Need I say more? ;)

Bisharp (m) – Chople Berry Inner Focus
252 Attack / 252 Defense / 4 SpeedImpish (+Defense; -Sp. Attack)-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch-Psycho Cut
-Taunt
**Unique combination of Swords Dance and Sucker Punch. Few can learn it so I'm using it. Taunt to disrupt setting up. Chople Berry speaks for itself. I still want help to make the "ideal" Bisharp, but using the collective knowledge gathered here, this was the best I could do.

Krookodile(m) – Life OrbMoxie
252 Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HPJolly (+Speed; -Sp. Attack)
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Pursuit
-Fire Fang
**Standard mid-game physical sweeper. Fire Fang and Outrage for coverage. Pursuit for Latias. Krookodile now has Moxie, so because of that I changed his nature to Jolly. I get a good bonus in Attack, so Krookodile needs to be faster to better apply it.

Spiritomb(m) – LeftoversPressure
252 Sp. Attack / 172 Sp. Defense / 84 DefenseModest (+Sp. Attack; -Attack)
-Will-o-Wisp-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Psychic
**I love this set for Spiritomb so much. Thank you PlatinumDude / Drakow for the suggestions. I didn't want to run Psychic (like stated previously), but the variety it offers gives me great neutral damage. Now, I like Spiritomb because I have a Darkteam, I don't need to mention my hideous weakness to Fighting. So Spiritomb seems like the perfect check to all that. Please see my "also considering" for other options.

Zoroark (m) – Choice SpecsIllusion
252 Sp.Attack / 252 Speed / 4 DefenseModest (+Sp. Attack; -Attack)
-Extrasensory
-Nasty Plot / U-Turn
-Flamethrower
-Focus Blast
**Zoroark to run some special sweeping. Flamethrower for Ferrothorn and Extrasensory for Fighting types, Nasty Plot to assist in that. U-turn would keep the illusion going. .....I do not like Zoroark on this team. I *want* to, but it's the only Pokemon that takes Sandstorm damage, my cover would be blown instantaneously (I realize that the illusion being spotted doesn't reflect Zoroark's power as a special sweeper, but it just seems to defeat the purpose of using Zoroark properly..). Plus Zoroark shares weaknesses with everyone else, Hydreigon / Spiritomb is probably my best bet.

Earth Power and Dark Pulse are illegal together on Hydreigon. I used to run Dragon Pulse but was told to run Draco Meteor over it. Have not looked back since.

Could you please elaborate on this for me? Or send me a link to where I can find out more information? Thanks!

**Hydreigon.. Devilishly charming, potent Special sweeper. Absolutely decadent. Divine in its power, sinister in its essence.. Ahh.. Amazing. Well, maybe not *my* Hydreigon, but you just gotta love'em. No true plan other than sweeping with this one, U-Turn so I can get in and get out.
~

Okay everyone. This is the team as it stands after everyone's brilliant recommendations. I'm very happy with it, very happy. Chiefly, what I am looking for is some more fine tuning and a suggestion of what to do with Spiritomb, (replace with Hydreigon, Scrafty.. etc..).

Vrai.. Drakow.. Your work here has been unfathomably, staggeringly helpful. I cannot thank you guys enough. I may sound a bit sappy, but for the sake of being a kind person above anything else, you two have made illustrations of my team that have undoubtedly made me a better competitive battler. I am very grateful. I can't wait to make another team and hear the suggestions of everyone.

I guess this comes with the fact that this is a Dark-monotype team and issues like this will happen but you are incredibly weak to Conkeldurr. There's not a whole lot you can do to check it while simultaneously running a Dark-type (because he beats out literally every Dark-type pretty much :/) but what you can do is try a Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk/STAB set on Spiritomb so Conkeldurr gets put on a timer. You could also try Extrasensory Zoroark, baiting it into using Payback (disguise as Spiritomb!) and smash it before it gets the opportunity to Mach Punch you (it won't since it'll think you're a Ghost-type).

Also, don't run DD Tyranitar. There's not much that it accomplishes compared to other DD users and it's much more effective as a bulky Mixed attacker, being able to absorb random special hits, etc. Plus, it gets smashed by EQ and Fighting-type moves, both of which are really common. And even at +1, it still misses out on quite a few Pokemon. :(

I agree with the changes you've recommended for my team, after seeing what someone qualified would do, it makes much more sense.
I especially like your recommendation for Spiritomb and Drapion.

Rest/SleepTalk would be a much more strategic and reliable method to work Spiritomb. And Taunt/Whirlwind would be perfect for how I want my Drapion to be.

I did the best I could, you know? And getting back this advise is just.. so reassuring.
Thanks for the input!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrai

I guess this comes with the fact that this is a Dark-monotype team and issues like this will happen but you are incredibly weak to Conkeldurr. There's not a whole lot you can do to check it while simultaneously running a Dark-type (because he beats out literally every Dark-type pretty much :/) but what you can do is try a Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk/STAB set on Spiritomb so Conkeldurr gets put on a timer. You could also try Extrasensory Zoroark, baiting it into using Payback (disguise as Spiritomb!) and smash it before it gets the opportunity to Mach Punch you (it won't since it'll think you're a Ghost-type).

Also, don't run DD Tyranitar. There's not much that it accomplishes compared to other DD users and it's much more effective as a bulky Mixed attacker, being able to absorb random special hits, etc. Plus, it gets smashed by EQ and Fighting-type moves, both of which are really common. And even at +1, it still misses out on quite a few Pokemon.

Ooohh.. Okay. That's funny, cause I actually did train a Zoroark with Extrasensory to couple with my Spiritomb, but I ended up trading Extrasensory for U-Turn. I'll be sure to educate myself on this. I like how everyone here has such a great sense for making a team with true unity. Maybe Zoroark will help me with that?

I know.. Conkledurr... But, there are threats to any team, Monotype or not. It just so happens that my major threat is very popular. I'll just have to work hard at this if I ever expect to get through that incredible beast.

I want DD on my Tyranitar so bad, just because it sounds so good..But that's no reason to basically waste a perfectly good Tyranitar, especially if I want to win. A bulky mixer would serve my purpose better and give me way more variety. I agree with you, before I start being "unique and special" I should gain a basic understand of, well.. the basics.

Everyone's advise is just so great (and super nice, in case you were concerned about that for any reason). My team makes a lot more sense when I read over it now with everybody's input. I think the best this I can do for myself now is alter my team to fit the strategies that everyone has recommended and go out there to get some real experience. I'm nervous, so wish me luck!

Am I allowed to post a re-vamped team as a new thread once I've made the right adjustments? Or should I just post it here again?

I want DD on my Tyranitar so bad, just because it sounds so good..But that's no reason to basically waste a perfectly good Tyranitar, especially if I want to win. A bulky mixer would serve my purpose better and give me way more variety. I agree with you, before I start being "unique and special" I should gain a basic understand of, well.. the basics.

It's just that people are really overprepared for that kind of threat. Everyone's going to run one if not multiple checks to something like that - the fact of the matter is that DD Tyranitar just isn't very effective with its typing and speed issues. Plus, everyone has to be prepared for Excadrill, too - and Tyranitar's moveset doesn't step beyond Excadrill's, really. If you're looking for a Dark-type DD abuser I'd take a look at Scrafty - it's very bulky, has incredibly solid coverage, and with Moxie boosts just gets more powerful every time it KOs something. Or you could use Shed Skin and be able to set up in the face of Paralysis, Toxic, and Burn knowing that the status will fade shortly.

Everyone's advise is just so great (and super nice, in case you were concerned about that for any reason). My team makes a lot more sense when I read over it now with everybody's input. I think the best this I can do for myself now is alter my team to fit the strategies that everyone has recommended and go out there to get some real experience. I'm nervous, so wish me luck!

Am I allowed to post a re-vamped team as a new thread once I've made the right adjustments? Or should I just post it here again?

Thanks a whole bunch Vrai!

You can definitely just post on this thread again with your own input to our suggestions. :) If you mean just editing your team to our suggestions and not trying them out quite yet, it'd be best if you edited your first post; if you mean coming back after having played with our suggestions a little while and giving your input on it, it'd probably be good for you to just make a new post (not a new thread) on this thread. :3

It's just that people are really overprepared for that kind of threat. Everyone's going to run one if not multiple checks to something like that - the fact of the matter is that DD Tyranitar just isn't very effective with its typing and speed issues. Plus, everyone has to be prepared for Excadrill, too - and Tyranitar's moveset doesn't step beyond Excadrill's, really. If you're looking for a Dark-type DD abuser I'd take a look at Scrafty - it's very bulky, has incredibly solid coverage, and with Moxie boosts just gets more powerful every time it KOs something. Or you could use Shed Skin and be able to set up in the face of Paralysis, Toxic, and Burn knowing that the status will fade shortly.

I think I could live without Dragon Dance. After reading about how DDTar used to be popular during the 3rd Gen, you're absolutely right- Dragon Dance is just too predictable nowadays. It just doesn't seem to weight in my favor much. However, Scrafty (I do have one set up with competitive battling "in mind") is a great idea and maybe a good addition to my team if I choose to replace one of them. I gotta say.. it seems almost wrong to have a Dark Monotype team and not have Tyranitar.. But I'll just have to do some battling and find what works for me. I'm certainly not limited to these six Pokemon. There's plenty of other Dark Types out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrai

You can definitely just post on this thread again with your own input to our suggestions. :) If you mean just editing your team to our suggestions and not trying them out quite yet, it'd be best if you edited your first post; if you mean coming back after having played with our suggestions a little while and giving your input on it, it'd probably be good for you to just make a new post (not a new thread) on this thread. :3

Excellent! :D I will put serious consideration into everyone's advice and come back to edit my original post with changes made. Afterwards, once I have tested the party as it stands, (if I feel like I need the help) I will re-post my team.

I like maxing out his special defensive capabilities as he just laughs at most special attacks – even super effective ones. He’s just like TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL YOU CAN’T DO JACK. Coverage is fantastic on him too. I personally use Expert Belt as it secures the OHKO on a standard Ferrothorn with Fire Blast. It sucks that without Life Orb, T-tar misses out a OHKO on Mamoswine. But that’s what the burn is for on Fire Blast anyway >__>

I think a Swords Dance set is good on this guy. Psycho cut was a good choice to put some pain on Conkeldurr. Send him in against something that can’t harm you so much, Swords Dance on the Conkeldurr switch in, and then you should be able to survive a Mach Punch from him with the Chople Berry and that gives you an opportunity to wreck it with Psycho Cut. Even better if he thinks you’ll switch out and tries to get a Bulk Up in.

A secondary pseudo check to Conkeldurr. Psychic will do roughly 1/3 of Conkeldurr’s HP I would imagine so if the Psycho cut doesn’t finish him off, you got this guy to seal the deal. After a Calm Mind, both your defensive stats will be quite high and he will be difficult to take down. The only reason I suggest Shadow Ball over Dark Pulse is because you have so many Dark moves on your team anyway.

I think keeping this guy physically defensive is fine, since you got T tar to take the special hits. This moveset is like a pseudo Skarmory moveset, which is why I opted to go with it. Set traps, and then start phasing. I like taunt as a move in general but go with Knock off if you wish.

Scrafty and Hydreigon (my two favourites) are also solid Dark type Pokemon which you could play around with. Both are very good in my opinion and extremely powerful.

Good luck on your quest for eternal Darkness, young one.

EDIT:

Oooooo I forgot about Mandibuzz! I reckon you should throw that in over something. If necessary, give it Overcoat to shield it from Sandstorm too.

This lets you hit Conkeldurr with a STAB bravebird for decent damage I would think. I like Tailwind as a supporting move for the team, but it would probably be better if you ran some more faster Pokemon. You can replace it for one of the options listed in the 4th spot. My first choice would be to remove Drapion for this guy. Something else for you to consider.

A Tyranitar taking special hits? Wow.. It seems so foreign, but sounds so good.. Dropping DD is the best thing for my Tyranitar, and if I do that I can get the most out of running a Special Mixer. Plus I wouldn't have to focus so much on Speed anymore.

I think I like the SubPunch Cacturne too. Swords Dance has been a reoccurring theme between Bisharp and Cacturne. Substitute will, if nothing, allow me to play different moves so I'm not too predictable. However, if I want to run Substitute, shouldn't I use Leftovers instead?

I like this a lot. My biggest mistake was trying to make Bisharp more like Scizor. (hence the Agility/Baton Pass mistake) I feel like I skipped out on Sucker Punch so much on this team, so having a priority move will give me a good advantage. Brick Break is an absolute keeper. But I do want to squeeze in Rock Polish somewhere.

My heart tells me not to abandon Toxic Spikes, but with Stealth Rock on Tyranitar (and maybe Cacturne with Spikes?) Drapion as a whole may not be in my best interest. I adore the suggestion for Mandibuzz. It can play the Defensive Supporter role that I want and achieve a lot of that "Skarmory" thing I'm going for. Especially with Overcoat to support Tyranitar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakow

Scrafty and Hydreigon (my two favourites) are also solid Dark type Pokemon which you could play around with. Both are very good in my opinion and extremely powerful.

I know.. They're so great... Scrafty is so bulky and Hydreigon as a Special Sweeper? Awesome. But, since I am so new to the competitive battling scene, I thought I should stick with Dark Pokemon that have good, reliable tactics that have been tested and confirmed to be successful. I didn't want to go out on a limb and throw together some sets for Scraty and Hydreigon without having a good understanding of their mechanics.

Thanks for the help Drakow! You've given me a lot to think about. I'm always open to new suggestions, so if you think of something, let me know!

This set is so troll if you do it right. If they got a lead which is most likely going to set up stealth rock, shroud yourself with the Magic Coat and bounce that crap back in their face. From here, I'll list the different possibilities and moves you should do to give a favourable outcome.

1) If you think they'll stay in and try to set up again, set up a layer of spikes. Then if you think they'll try to take Cacturne out, use Encore to force them to repeat their set up move. This then gives you at least one extra free turn to set up a layer of spikes as they will most likely switch out in frustration. This is a good outcome as you have 2+ layers of spikes and possibly a stealth rock up and running if they used it turn one.

2) If you think they'll switch, set up a layer of spikes and take it from there.

So no matter what happens, your second move should generally be to set up a layer of spikes. The attacking move is your choice. Sucker Punch is good stuff, but again, you do have a tonne of Dark moves on your team, so perhaps a grass move could be useful to the team. Since Cacturne's offenses are equally powerful, you have the option of Energy Ball.

Another option for Krookodile is Thunder Fang but since it will only be just a bit more powerful than Outrage on a x2 super effective hit, Fire Fang is probably the better choice. Though it does maim Gyarados, which has it's merits.

For your team, Psychic is really needed on Spiritomb. My team is also Conkeldurr weak, so my Jellicent has Psychic too as a means of doing some damage to it.

Yeah, Hydreigon is ran as a powerful special sweeper. His insane coverage and great support movepool make him a lethal force.

I like this a lot. My biggest mistake was trying to make Bisharp more like Scizor. (hence the Agility/Baton Pass mistake) I feel like I skipped out on Sucker Punch so much on this team, so having a priority move will give me a good advantage. Brick Break is an absolute keeper. But I do want to squeeze in Rock Polish somewhere.
Thanks for the help Drakow! You've given me a lot to think about. I'm always open to new suggestions, so if you think of something, let me know!

Ehhh I wouldn't run Rock Polish on Bisharp. Its best quality is the SD/Sucker Punch combo which not a whole lot of other Pokemon can do (Absol, maybe?). Sucker Punch bypasses the speed of other Pokemon so you really don't have to worry that much about your speed at all. :B

Ehhh I wouldn't run Rock Polish on Bisharp. Its best quality is the SD/Sucker Punch combo which not a whole lot of other Pokemon can do (Absol, maybe?). Sucker Punch bypasses the speed of other Pokemon so you really don't have to worry that much about your speed at all. :B

No Rock Polish? Really? I was thinking that it would be good for when I'm using Psycho Cut, but hey, you guys know best. I guess since Conkledurr is so slow I don't need to be much faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrai

psst all mandibuzz are female iirc

Haha, I'm sorry, that was supposed to be a joke. I guess I just forgot that I'm too new for everyone to get my sense of humor.

Not that you guys don't *get* me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakow

Been doing some more thinking. I've been doing some investigation into Cacturne. A spikes set for Cacturne is certainly viable.

That's funny, cause my Hydreigon has like.. no similarities to your suggestions. With the exception of Dark Pulse. I ended up using Earth Power and Dragon Pulse- which I like.. then again, I seem to like things that work *against* me in competitive battling.

I ended up using Fire Punch on my Scrafty instead of Ice Punch. I feel like I should post of the details of all my Dark Pokemon so you guys can critic them but that would be ridiculous.. and probably a little embarrassing..

Thanks for some effective guidelines I can use on my Hydreigon and Scrafty. It's great having some food for thought on all this stuff. :D

Jeez this is like my 3rd day as a member of the PC and everyone has just been so great to me. I feel like I've learned so much and really challenged myself. Pokemon got so tired and boring after all my friends refused to battle me anymore, so knowing that I still have a long way to go is really rewarding in a strange way.

No Rock Polish? Really? I was thinking that it would be good for when I'm using Psycho Cut, but hey, you guys know best. I guess since Conkledurr is so slow I don't need to be much faster.

Haha, I'm sorry, that was supposed to be a joke. I guess I just forgot that I'm too new for everyone to get my sense of humor.

Not that you guys don't *get* me. :P

XD;

Yeah, Conkeldurr will get you with Mach Punch and/or restore the health lost from Psycho Cut with Drain Punch anyway. You can't beat Conkeldurr with Bisharp at all, really - the 4x weakness is too much to overcome easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexial357

I ended up using Fire Punch on my Scrafty instead of Ice Punch. I feel like I should post of the details of all my Dark Pokemon so you guys can critic them but that would be ridiculous.. and probably a little embarrassing..

Jeez this is like my 3rd day as a member of the PC and everyone has just been so great to me. I feel like I've learned so much and really challenged myself. Pokemon got so tired and boring after all my friends refused to battle me anymore, so knowing that I still have a long way to go is really rewarding in a strange way. ;)

Earth Power and Dark Pulse are illegal together on Hydreigon. I used to run Dragon Pulse but was told to run Draco Meteor over it. Have not looked back since.

The problem with moves like Surf and Earth Power is that even a 2x super effective hit from either of those moves, still does less than a neutral Draco Meteor (190 and 180 respectively in comparison to 210). Which makes Focus Blast a good option, though I personally tend to avoid using it due to it's shaky accuracy but I'm having third thoughts on it now. I used to run Focus Blast, switched to Surf but now contemplating switching back.

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