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I belive this is robbery. video.

I heard lots of buzzing, saw bees streaming out of the box and thought they were getting ready to swarm. I had to suit up as they were coming at me from 40 ft. away. Upon further review, saw lots of clumps of fighting bees on ground in front of hive, more on the deck. Very noisy, very irritated. I put the reducer on, then turned it to close off the entrance to 1". two hives on either side of this one little to no affect. Log hive only 6 ft. away are hanging out bearding.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

This was occurring at sundown. I checked on them again 1 hour later, the reducer did the trick for now, or nightfall did it. Lots of bees on the bottom of the SBB. I won't take the reducer off until tomorrow and even then keep it at 4".

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

It sure looked like a good sized, peaceful orientation flight event happening at first, then all hell broke loose when they couldn't get back into the hive they just oriented to. I didn't notice fighting on the ground until the chaos erupted (a few missed landings as expected). JMO!

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

Hello BIM, thanks for the response. I've seen orientation flights before, right out in front of the hive, nice circular pattern of flight, usually 2 or 3 in the afternoon. And I don't hear them so much. This is at 7:30 pm (sunset here), and the sound was very loud even from a distance. Lots of bees up 15 to 20' in the air over the hive, lots more on ground in front balled up. The wife and I had to suit up as they were aggressively coming at us even 20 ft. away. They got the dog, he ran away with his tail protecting what dog-hood he has left. After close observation, I saw bees dragging dead bees to top of hive, then dropping them. More bees on ground wrapped up fighting. It was after all this noise and confusion that I put the reducer on. Then I shot the vid. I have a vid before I put the reducer on, but it came out sideways for some reason, so I didn't post it.

I know I've cried wolf before thinking a hive was getting robbed. I guess for me anyway it's one of the toughest things to determine if it is, or if it isn't. I'd hate to discount robbing for orientation and lose a hive. I also have watched orientation up close, no suit. There's no way I would have done that this evening, before or after the reducer went on. Something was definitely different.

Neighbors have bees maybe they're not happy at home, and we just moved in a new log hive, although I'm pretty sure it isn't them. They have their own issues to deal with.

Also tonight I see lots of bees going into our shed where I have spare supers stacked. These have frames in them, no foundation. The top box has an entry hole drilled in it, they were going in and out of there really checking this thing out. Almost like a swarm (scout bees) looking for a place to go.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

Of course it's hard to observe in a couple video clips...no matter what, you did what you believe to be right for your girls. That is the most important thing! Ahhh, to have all the answers, all the time, huh? Like you say, maybe there was a swarm trying to move in or something. It will be interesting to know what you find tomorrow! Good luck!! Keep us posted!

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

I was wondering that too, the way they crawled up the front, and the noise. My wife saw our Italians (this same hive) swarm in the early June. I remember her talking about how noisy they were. This time she got within 40' of the hive, turned around went home and got her suit they were so loud.

In answer to your question, No, we have not opened up and checked for swarm cells. That could be in the near future and it's a good idea.

One of our ideas is to provide them with more space. I only have 8 shallow frames with beeswax foundation in a shallow super. All of my other supers are mediums, no foundation, tons of frames.

Upon inspection this morning 5:45 a.m. our time, I found about a dozen dead bees on the front porch, more in the grass in front of the hive. Stragglers hanging out on the outside of the box. And lots more still on the bottom of the SBB. I opened the reducer to the 4" as they're just starting to get moving around here at first light. I'll go take another look soon. The Michael Bush book has a great section on robbing. The thing that seems to be consistent advice in all cases of suspected robbing is to button up the hive, or put on a robber screen. I have a 'makeshift' screen I could put on if I feel it necessary.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

No need to do that.

It's robbing. And now both hives are involved in the fight of their lives instead of just the one. I tried to close up the entrance, too many bodies in the way to get it sealed.
I'll find another way to get it done, thinking of bed sheets, and sprinklers now. It's gotten ugly.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

I smoked the entrance and put reducers in down to the smallest opening. threw a wet sheet over one of the hives to see if that helps.
Off to work now, so we'll find out later I guess.
Looked like the girls were holding their own a bit.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

One suggestion I received from another beek to tell if it's robbing or not.
If you have SBBs on your hive, look underneath and see if there are bits of wax laying on the screen. This is a clear indication of robbing going on as they're shredding the comb to take the honey.
The pieces of comb fall to the floor of the hive. Makes sense.
I could see some on one of the hives, but not the other, couldn't get a good enough look.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

I've never seen robbing like that BeePappy I could have sworn it's swarmy When I see your videos I see bees leaving as a swarm and then the entrance is blocked up and they are all piling up trying to get back in. I see confusion and congestion but I dont see fighting and I dont see the hover pattern of robber bees in front of the hive.

Up until you actually visually check your hive I still go with swarming

If you split your boxs and tilt the top one back you can see any swarmcells without actually having to open it right up and take frames out.

It would be good to know for sure one way or the other because if it's not robbing you aren't doing the bees any good by using sheets and sprinklers etc. If it is robbing you may need to move one of the hives because sheets and sprinklers seldom work

But if you are convinced that it's robbing and you are the "Pappy" on the ground then who am I to argue

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

Well I can see the similarities in the video with what is occurring. What my video does not show is the fighting and clumps of bees on the ground, in front of and under the hive. I popped the top of one hive, and they were fighting inside on top of the inner cover. I'm talking bees dragging other bees by the legs, etc. I saw more leg dragging, and when I was trying to look on the underside of the SBB, bees fell on me that were "engaged" in battle. I literally watched them on my glove biting and maneuvering for position. It would be my assumption that sort of behavior is not part of swarming.
We have a theory, that a massive log hive we moved near the apiary is the culprit. They are new, don't know the area or where to look for food. They smell the honey in the nearby hives and make a move. They're a lot of them, they're aggressive and I don't know their history. We picked up this log hive on Saturday, (link) http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...-into-log-hive and don't know what sort of conditions are inside the hive. My guess is they very well could have had comb broken lose, lost their stores, who knows. The tree fell and hit the ground some 3 or 4 weeks ago. The log is located about 100 ft. from the other hives.
I didn't have time to watch them to see if that is what happened. Since I'm now home from work I'll have a chance to go check things out.
We're absolutely new to beekeeping as we just started in April. There is a lot to learn. It could be a lesson to NOT move a log hive into an area where there's no readily available food supply. We're now in a dearth. One good sign I did see this morning even amongst all the scrambling going on at the entrance was a couple bees trying to bring in pollen.
My beek friend has offered some honey comb as a possible lure to get the bees off of the hives, and distracted. Since I don't have any, I may take him up on his offer.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

Went and checked on the hives. The sheets had blown off, one of them fell in front of the hive and is littered with dead bees on it. Easier to see them than in the grass. I won't be able to inspect until the weekend, I would imagine it'll all be done by then. One last chance I have is to put a couple board-man feeders up by the log hive. Load them up with syrup and maybe they'll let the hives alone. It's worth a shot I guess. I'm not 100% positive it is the log bees doing the robbing, but maybe a diversion like this may help. Nothing to lose at this point.

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

The Robbing seems to have subsided by yesterday afternoon. Both hives involved. Very sure it was the new log hive doing most of the robbing. I picked up the sheets from in front of the hives and shook off hundreds of dead bees. I think that putting out the two board-man feeders with syrup helped to divert the log bees. They took a half gallon in under 3 hours. I put them on two steps of a step ladder within a few feet of their log hive.
Also believe that putting on the reducers to smallest opening, and the wet sheets may have saved the box hives at this time. A theory from fellow beek is that the log hive was put into disarray when the tree fell. Weeks later they are trying to get back to 'normal' when their log is cut lose and moved. Once stood up on end, they had to repair damage, and get stores including honey into new and repaired comb, and they had to do it quickly. The existing hives provided what they needed, so they took it. Now they will be able to concentrate on building more comb, collecting pollen, etc. So another lesson learned. 50 - 60 feet is too close to put a feral hive to an existing apiary. I'll do full box hive inspections this weekend time permitting.

Someone here posted this link originally, I think David LaFerney.
I finally found a local Ace that carries #8 hardware cloth. I went to 2 Lowes, Home Depots, and at least 4 Ace's before I found this one that sells it. Pricey though, over $4 foot, by 2 feet.

Pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. Prvb 16:24
March 2010; +/- 50 hives, TF

Re: I belive this is robbery. video.

Very simple nice effective design! Thanks for passing that along. It just so happens that I have a bunch of hardware cloth, I think it's a roll left over from the late 1970's. Found it in the barn. It will work just fine.