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In York County, Democratic, Republican voter panels try to overcome polarization

Some local Republicans and Democrats agreed to sit down and see where they could compromise -- and where they couldn't.

By ED MAHON Daily Record/Sunday News

Updated:
10/13/2012 10:51:09 PM EDT

York, PA -

Richard Zerbe is a retired school administrator and registered Democrat. He thinks the tea party has made any type of cooperation between Democrats and Republicans impossible.

Ray Manus is a retired New York City police lieutenant and registered Republican who doesn't consider himself a member of the tea party. He's skeptical of any budget deal that would trade tax increases today for spending cuts tomorrow -- because he thinks future leaders could always change their minds on those spending cuts.

During a discussion between them and two other voters, Zerbe and Manus butted heads frequently.

"Irrational thought -- totally irrational thought," Zerbe said to Manus at one point.

In the midst of a presidential election campaign, and in an atmosphere that research has described as the most politically polarized in 25 years, Zerbe, Manus and other local Democratic and Republican voters agreed to sit down with members of the opposite party and see if they could find compromise.

Of the 10 voters who participated in two sessions hosted by the York Daily Record/Sunday News last week, Manus and Zerbe were clear political opposites.

But they appeared to talk themselves close to a policy compromise at least once.

And some political science experts say that individual voters may not be as politically polarized as the two main parties.

"I think understanding the details of what different people think about issues, giving them a chance to explain their views -- sometimes we find that people are closer together ... than we might initially think," said Scott Meinke, associate professor of political science at Bucknell University. "...Americans have more complicated, less either-or opinions than it looks like at first."

But he also didn't want to oversell that notion, saying that while voters may not be as politically polarized as the leaders they elect, they still are more divided along party lines than they used to be.

Monday session

Political polarization rose

In June, the Pew Research Center released a report saying that partisan polarization has surged during the presidencies of Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Barack Obama -- and that Americans are more polarized along partisan lines than at any point in the past 25 years.

"Unlike in 1987, when this series of surveys began, the values gap between Republicans and Democrats is now greater than gender, age, race or class divides," the report says.

The report also says that among Republicans, self-described conservatives continue to outnumber moderates by about two-to-one, and that there are now as many self-described liberal Democrats as moderate Democrats.

"Liberal Republican and conservative Democrat have become almost oxymorons, where they wouldn't have been 30 years ago," Meinke said.

He said the media environment is more polarized, and that there's research that suggests activists have become more extreme, which has influenced both the Republican and Democratic parties.

Peter Levy, chairman of the history and political science department at York College, said you can look at polarization as a chicken or egg situation -- or maybe, more like a chain reaction.

"The people are divided. And the politicians kind of exacerbate those divisions. And that keeps people more divided," Levy said.

Levy argued that anxiety over the economy has caused more polarization. In other periods, Levy said, politicians could count on economic growth to solve their problems.

"I would say there was more civility, because they didn't have to make as many hard choices," Levy said.

"It just doesn't make sense."

During a session at the Daily Record on Tuesday, Democrat Alan Vandersloot said the group should focus on making the middle class stronger.

"This country ... did not become the number one country in the world by having high rates of poverty and then just rich people. We had a large middle class in the '30s, '40s, '50s and '60s," Vandersloot said to the other five participants. "It's shrinking."

Some others at the table agreed that was important. When asked to come up with one policy step that would strengthen the middle class, and that they could agree on, Jeannette Wright suggested more drilling for oil and natural gas.

"When people don't work, they start to lose hope. And ... I think that's part of what's wrong with this country," said Wright, a self-described conservative Democrat who plans to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney. "...When you don't have skin in the game and you're not paying a level of taxes, it doesn't matter to you what happens."

Dennis Mann, a 79-year-old Republican, agreed with her on the issue of more drilling. So did Eric Kirkland, a 60-year-old Democrat from York. Kirkland said when he was growing up in the west end of York, it seemed like everybody had a job.

"When people don't have a job, when you can't take care of your family, you lose all your self-esteem, you lose your self pride," Kirkland said. "Everything just starts deteriorating."

He said he'd be OK with more drilling "as long as the safety ... concerns are addressed." And he said thought they could be with the right regulation, not over-regulation.

Joe Stafford, a 65-year-old Democrat who is undecided in this year's presidential election, objected. He said drilling is "making a mess" of communities in Pennsylvania and that there's a danger of contaminating the water.

"One accident is not acceptable," Stafford said, adding that he didn't think energy independence should be a goal either. "I wouldn't be sad to see gasoline go to eight bucks a gallon, because then we would conserve gasoline."

Mann and Stafford went back and forth about energy independence. Wright followed up with Stafford, saying it's tragic that accidents happen but it shouldn't stop them from going forward.

"That would be like saying we're never going to allow an 18-wheeler on the road again if any person is killed by one," Wright said. "It just doesn't make sense."

Setting the boundaries

David Lowery, a political science professor and director of Penn State's Center for American Political Responsiveness, expects federal lawmakers to reach a grand bargain on debt in the face of the "fiscal cliff."

That's the popular shorthand for a number of changes that are set to have an impact beginning in 2013, including the expiration of the Bush-era tax cuts and automatic defense and other spending cuts that are part of last year's debt-ceiling deal

"This election is really about setting the boundaries" for that deal, Lowery said.

Meinke said such an agreement could change how the public views issues.

"We have evidence to show that voters do respond to the messages that they hear from trusted leaders," Meinke said.

Tuesday session

"That makes a lot of sense."

Manus, the retired New York City police lieutenant, described how he would respond to a hypothetical ratio: $1 million in future spending cuts for $1 more in taxes today.

"If you'll cut the spending first, I'll talk to you about raising taxes if the need comes along," Manus said during the Monday evening session, in which four people participated.

The three went back and forth for another 40 seconds or so, sometimes talking over each other. It was one of the times Zerbe referred to Manus' thinking as irrational.

Then James Graham, a registered Democrat who considers himself more of an independent, entered the fray.

"But the reality of it is ... you're not going to get either one," said Graham, "and that's what's stalling us. ... Neither party believes the other one's going to do it, when they get there.

"You want expenses reduced -- then you'll want to talk about tax reductions," he said to Manus. "The Democrats want to say, 'Give me the money up front, and then let me figure out if I can cut taxes.'"

Zerbe and Manus moved closer together later, after Manus floated the idea of allowing leaders to raise taxes "to run the government under today's conditions."

Manus wanted something in return.

"Don't open new entitlements and new programs," Manus said. "Don't start anything new until we get the economy going, and jobs, and more people paying into it."

Zerbe grinned.

"That makes a lot of sense," Zerbe said.

They didn't hammer out all the details and moved onto another topic. Several minutes later, when they were asked about that proposal, the issue of inflation seemed to stall them.

Near the end of the session, Zerbe suggested that the group of four would come a lot closer to a compromise than if just he and Manus were left in a room together.

"You do need some semblance of rational leadership," Zerbe said. "And if that occurs, then other folks who have strong beliefs -- but are rational people -- are willing to give up some of what they hold dear."

About the participants

"How I wish ... everyone could compromise like myself and my Democratic dad," she said, then laughed. "He loves Obama, and yet we manage to get along, and talk politics without getting too upset."

Richard Zerbe, 66, of Springettsbury Township. A retired school administrator, he has volunteered with President Barack Obama's re-election campaign.

"Now, I'm biased ... of course. But I think your tea party folks have totally gone off the deep end ... and have made any type of cooperation impossible," Zerbe said.

Ray Manus, a 70-year-old registered Republican and retired New York City police lieutenant who lives in Spring Garden Township.

"I think our elected officials have been very happy to keep us polarized, because it keeps us divided, so we don't come together and throw the whole bunch of bums out of office," Manus said.

James Graham, a 58-year-old director of transportation for a logistics company. The Spring Grove resident voted for Obama in 2008, but said he doesn't plan to do the same in November. He's a registered Democrat, but considers himself more of an independent.

At one point in the discussion, Zerbe suggested sending Graham to Congress.

"I hear from everybody here that you want compromise. And I think that really is what the majority of the people in the United States want ... some type of compromise along the lines that makes sense," Graham said. "And that's really what we're not seeing."

Tuesday's session

Joe Stafford, a 65-year-old registered Democrat from York Township. He said he was undecided for this year's presidential election.

Since 2001, he has managed a nonprofit advocacy organization for Pennsylvania bicyclists.

"We are not going to address the debt. I cannot believe that Romney has anything specific to meet the numbers he's talking about," Stafford said. "And our president escalated the debt."

Dawn Smith, a 40-year-old registered Republican from York. She is a volunteer this election for Republican campaigns.

"We have to have a balanced budget, and we've got to cut somehow," Smith said, "and I don't know what areas they can agree on. ...All we can do is try to hold them accountable."

Alan Vandersloot, a 62-year-old registered Democrat from West York. He is the AFL-CIO director of labor participation for the United Way of York County.

"Both candidates talk about trying to make the middle class stronger. ...that's where I think compromise could come in," Vandersloot said. "...The wealthy have had many breaks. They need to just provide more revenue. It's not just all spending cuts that's going to balance this budget."

Jeannette Wright, a 49-year-old from North Codorus Township. She described herself as a conservative Democrat who plans to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney this November.

Her husband owns a small business, a construction company, and she works in packaging for a consumer goods company.

"I think there are ways to make changes without raising taxes," said Wright, who later criticized the president for not doing more to improve the budget. "There's so much waste that we could cut."

Dennis Mann, 79, of York Township. He is retired, but still keeps his professional engineering license.

He criticized politicians who sign Grover Norquist's no-tax pledge.

"You're not going to get any compromise when they've committed themselves," Mann said.

Eric Kirkland, 60, of York. He is the owner of a strategy and management consulting firm. A former president of the York chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Kirkland is a registered Democrat. But he said he's been a registered Republican before.

"Our educational test scores are so low. ... That's a national security issue. The fact that we don't know how to manage this current diverse workforce -- that's a national security issue," Kirkland said. "...I think a compromise has to be pulling back from all of this foreign stuff, and shoring up this country here." -- Ed Mahon

About the sessions

With the goal of seeing if Republicans and Democrats could move past their respective parties' positions and compromise, the York Daily Record/Sunday News hosted two voter sessions, moderated by government and politics reporter Ed Mahon.

Before being asked to attend, voters were asked if they'd be willing to listen to their political opponents' views and engage in dialogue, not simply declare their own views. Four voters participated Monday and six participated Tuesday. Each session lasted about an hour.