It doesn't bother me in the slightest that he did the ride without a helmet. Good for him exercising his choice when choice is something we lack in this country... (http://helmetfreedom.org/)He's not hurting anyone by not wearing a helmet and I'm sure the police would have caused more harm (to many others) by attempting to pull him over for it.

He clearly knows what he's doing. Helmets weren't compulsory in the Tour de France until very, very recently and only because the Americans pushed the issue on the UCI following two high profile deaths - neither of which would have been any different had they been wearing even motorcycle helmets...

Last edited by nitramluap on Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Drunkmonkey wrote:No flag? Im not sure why you wouldnt want to increase your visibility, especially with the way you ride on the river loop

1) I've not had a problem with visibility in a 2.5m long red & white velomobile. Car drivers give me more room than on my road bike. Frankly, if you can't see me, then you must be blind. I don't ride in the door zone like most other 'visible' riders on road bikes... much to their peril, nor do I place myself where a driver can't see me, particularly at the lights...2) It is not a legal requirement to have a flag

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that he did the ride without a helmet. Good for him exercising his choice when choice is something we lack in this country... (http://helmetfreedom.org/)He's not hurting anyone by not wearing a helmet and I'm sure the police would have caused more harm (to many others) by attempting to pull him over for it.

He clearly knows what he's doing. Helmets weren't compulsory in the Tour de France until very, very recently and only because the American's pushed the issue following two high profile deaths - neither of which would have been any different had they been wearing even motorcycle helmets...

He was breaking the law - there is no excuse or justification for this. And to do it during a high profile event is stupid.

This is Australia and its 2011 - the rest of your argument is null and void.

Drunkmonkey wrote:No flag? Im not sure why you wouldnt want to increase your visibility, especially with the way you ride on the river loop

1) I've not had a problem with visibility in a 2.5m long red & white velomobile. Car drivers give me more room than on my road bike. Frankly, if you can't see me, then you must be blind. I don't ride in the door zone like most other 'visible' riders on road bikes... much to their peril, nor do I place myself where a driver can't see me, particularly at the lights...2) It is not a legal requirement to have a flag

Thank you for your concern...

Car drivers sometimes struggle to see cyclists in bright lycra.

Im sure some people in 4wds would struggle to see you, that will be their argument after they hit you.

That is no excuse. If they can't see objects on the road or near the road then they are not driving to the conditions. I'm really tired of forcing the responsibility of safety onto the most vulnerable (pedestrians & cyclists). Next we'll be encouraging pedestrians to wear fluorescent & reflectors because if they get hit it was because they weren't not visible enough... ridiculous. It reminds me of an awful child road safety campaign, 'Tales of the Road', in the UK recently. Just plain awful.

Drunkmonkey wrote:Im sure some people in 4wds would struggle to see you, that will be their argument after they hit you.

Then that is why we need strict liability laws. If you are commanding a 2 tonne metal killing machine to drive the children to ballet then you had better take responsibility for your actions. If a person were to walk down the street with a loaded gun and accidentally shot someone dead they would go to jail (and it shouldn't matter if they had their mandatory bullet proof vest on either). If you kill someone 'accidentally' with a car in this country you will be fined and lose your licence for a short while.

Drunkmonkey wrote:He was breaking the law - there is no excuse or justification for this. And to do it during a high profile event is stupid.

He was hurting nobody. So, regarding breaking the law:Do you always stop at a stop sign on your bicycle?Do you always walk your bicycle across a pedestrian crossing?Do you always stay below the speed limit, even when overtaking a B-Double truck?...ad infinitum...

Where do you draw the line? I can guess... laws that you wouldn't break are unacceptable for others to break.

You people must live a very stressful and miserable life if you have to spend so much time focussing on what everybody is doing wrong! Better watch those coronary arteries...

Drunkmonkey wrote:This is Australia and its 2011 - the rest of your argument is null and void.

Yep. Australia with its 'we know best' attitude, with a bicycle mode share of 1.3% nationally for all trips and 50% of car trips less than 5km, 70% less than 10km.

Yeah, we really have our finger on the pulse here. I hope those crazy dutch are taking notes on how to build a proper bicycle culture.

Everyone keeps banging on about how cycling is 'positively booming' here but that is complete bollocks. Sure, there are lots of people going round in circles in the mornings (before they drive to work) and on weekends but that's not the same thing. Not even close.

You should track down that guy not wearing his helmet and give him a piece of your mind... I'm sure you know it all, including what's best for him - it's for his own good.

Can I just say here I know nitramluap personally. The number of forum posts does not equal experience - I mean you've only got to look at my example

I've ridden with him on a number of occasions and I honestly can't recall him doing anything that was at all odd, unusual, or dangerous. Not a single thing that stood out that caused me to notice. What's more, in a group of cyclists his riding and adherence to relevant rules etc was again what I considered normal.

Now to the visibility thing... I can tell you that the bloody mango stands out like dogs balls on the road. It's bright and red and shiny and everybody - cyclists and motorists alike see it. Having said that, with him being a careful chap and all I've never really seen him put himself in a position where he has to rely on motorists seeing him to avoid him.

So, I think maybe it's just easy to watch a video and think you've seen the story. Personally I thought they were great.

Just on the helmet thing.. I'd be more worried about getting badly burnt without some form of headwear on. I suspect he was a bit like me on occasion... peddle out... damn that's a pleasant breeze... damn I can't be bothered going back home to get it!

Drunkmonkey wrote:He was breaking the law - there is no excuse or justification for this. And to do it during a high profile event is stupid.

He was hurting nobody. So, regarding breaking the law:Do you always stop at a stop sign on your bicycle?Do you always walk your bicycle across a pedestrian crossing?Do you always stay below the speed limit, even when overtaking a B-Double truck?...ad infinitum...

Where do you draw the line? I can guess... laws that you wouldn't break are unacceptable for others to break.

You people must live a very stressful and miserable life if you have to spend so much time focussing on what everybody is doing wrong! Better watch those coronary arteries...

Drunkmonkey wrote:This is Australia and its 2011 - the rest of your argument is null and void.

Yep. Australia with its 'we know best' attitude, with a bicycle mode share of 1.3% nationally for all trips and 50% of car trips less than 5km, 70% less than 10km.

Yeah, we really have our finger on the pulse here. I hope those crazy dutch are taking notes on how to build a proper bicycle culture.

Everyone keeps banging on about how cycling is 'positively booming' here but that is complete bollocks. Sure, there are lots of people going round in circles in the mornings (before they drive to work) and on weekends but that's not the same thing. Not even close.

You should track down that guy not wearing his helmet and give him a piece of your mind... I'm sure you know it all, including what's best for him - it's for his own good.

Yes I stop at stop signs and red lights - my life depends on it.

I dont need to chase they guy down and chastise him for not wearing a helmet, he will learn that the hard way if/when he crashes. i just hope for his sake that he doesnt use racing lines on the road - or cross to the wrong side of the road so as to not lose speed

You are in Australia now - if you have a problem with us 'Aussies', that wont change as long as you are living here.

And yet another perfectly pleasant thread degenerates into a helmet debate/road rules debate.

Max

One of the best things about bicycle commuting is that it can mitigate the displeasure of having to go to work. - BikeSnobNYCCycling is sometimes like bobbing for apples in a bucket full of dicks. - SydGuy

uncle arthur wrote:Speaking of bling - there was one guy there on a Pinarello Dogma - green and sparkle colour scheme, and he didn't look like he "earned" the right to ride such a fine steed - more just that he earned enough to afford to buy it.

Good on him for riding, but some bike shop owners should be ashamed of themselves......... ..... aren't there any standards these days - it would be like someone selling Miss Daisy a Ferrari.....

Im pretty sure I can guess what bike shop sold him that bike

I seen a woman buy a Tarmac SL3 from a LBS not long ago, she wanted it because she couldnt get up hills on her current bike. She was admitting to everyone that she was far from deserving of riding it, and was going to ride it to work just to show off to her workmates. The bike shop let her put a set of tri bars on it, I had a slight tear in my eye - tri bars have no place on that bike

Her bubby bought her the bike - and was letting everyone in the shop know that

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that he did the ride without a helmet. Good for him exercising his choice when choice is something we lack in this country... (http://helmetfreedom.org/)He's not hurting anyone by not wearing a helmet and I'm sure the police would have caused more harm (to many others) by attempting to pull him over for it.

He clearly knows what he's doing. Helmets weren't compulsory in the Tour de France until very, very recently and only because the Americans pushed the issue on the UCI following two high profile deaths - neither of which would have been any different had they been wearing even motorcycle helmets...

Yes we have choices. Not that it applies to helmets, but prison is full of people who made choices, where the rest of us concider there is no choice.If helmets are compulsory, and if you ride on a public thoroughfare you have no choice. A pointless post

Womble, whether helmets are compulsory or not they don't stop your melon exploding on impact.

Have you even read the AS/NZS2063 Standard for bicycle helmets and the testing procedures (AS/NZS2512) - very similar to the EN1078 standard? I bet you haven't... The testing procedure includes impact test(s) at only 19.5km/h and the helmet has to only not 'fail' (ie. crack) to pass the test.

I'm not saying I agree with compusory helmet use - I've actually had an about face on the right to choose - but as long as they're compulsory, I'm donning one.At a time where the motoring public and the police need no encouragement to think less of us, cyclists not wearing helmets is only gonna hurt our already largely unjustified reputation and further flame the idiots who feel we have no place on our roads.

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