You get a lot of bang for your buck in a legal consultation — you get a much better sense about where you stand in the laws, and you get a plan of attack. Sometimes, it is not appropriate to attack, and you need to know that for your peace of mind. Job problems are very stressful, and maybe I can help reduce the stress by bringing you a good plan, or by bringing you closure. See Stress and depression and job problems .

Common types of consults, and whether fees apply

Please make note that Telephone and Long Distance Consults are possible:

Sometimes I consult with people outside of Missouri who have connections with Missouri employers, but that’s case by case. See Telephone or Long Distance Consults and you can pay the fee by credit card (or pay by cash or check in advance if we have enough time for mailing).

The list that follows represents common subjects about which I am asked to consult by employees.

Wise and cautious people seek out lawyers very early, when they recognize a problem may be brewing.

Sometimes a lawyer can suggest certain steps be taken that might position the employee to better-withstand the impending challenges ahead.

Sometimes such early action can salvage a career, or lay the foundation for a decent Severance Contract down the road, or perhaps begin preparing for a possible legal action for Wrongful Termination or Retaliation or Breach of Contract, if the problem doesn’t get fixed. You will usually have to pay a consult fee for such early advice.

Severance Agreements with Waiver of Rights: If you have a severance-waiver contract (where you are asked to waive your legal rights in exchange for separation pay), I usually (but not always – never say never) charge consult fees to help you decide how to proceed.

Resolving job problems, Planning and Strategizing while you are still employed: If you are still employed and are having some work problems and want a lawyer to assist with trying to resolve them so that you can continue your employment, I will probably charge fees to help you. If you want me to be available on background for advice as the need arises, I will probably charge fees for any ongoing legal work.

One of the primary goals of early planning and strategizing is to strengthen your legal position for later on, if the situation does not get resolved, or it deteriorates, and you end up needing to take legal action sometime down the road. For many people, early planning and careful execution of a legal strategy could make the difference between having a decent case and not having a decent case,or make the difference between being able to get a lawyer later (on favorable terms) or not being able to get a lawyer at all.

Employment contract litigation: Fees for ongoing work in connection with employment contract litigation are too variable to give any general guidelines. To consult in an employment contract matter, I usually charge fees. Ongoing contract work is typically fee based. I sometimes prosecute contract-related matters on some form of flat or contingency fee, or maybe a modified contingency fee where you pay some guaranteed fees, it all depends on your unique circumstances.

Non-compete issues: If you have a non-compete case, these are often hourly legal fee matters, although not necessarily in all cases. It mostly depends on whether you might have strong legal claims to make in addition to the non-compete matter. I usually charge a consult fee to help you decide whether you have a worthwhile defense under the non-compete, or help you decide whether to seek a declaratory judgment to try to get out of the non-compete. Non-compete consults often become quite complex. You decided to sign the non-compete contract; don’t be surprised that lawyers are going to ask for fees to try to get you out of it. The best time to avoid non-compete trouble is at the front-end, before you sign, by negotiating a better non-compete.

Wrongful Termination – Helping you decide what to do about a potentially Wrongful Termination. I am usually going to charge fees to consult. Sometimes I can justify a free consult – See the section of this article called Free consults for more info. Get a taste for how complicated the decision might be by reading Should I sue? and the articles linked-to from that article.

Helping you decide what to do about any form of wrongful treatment or potential legal matter, such as those referenced in my Frequently Asked Questions and Articles pages. Get a taste for how complicated the decision might be by reading Deciding what to do … suing, etc. and the articles linked-to from that article. I usually charge a consult fee.

Helping Government Employees to determine what their rights might be, and whether it is worthwhile to hire a lawyer to assist them. I usually charge a consult fee, not always, but most often. Federal Government employees are filing EEO or Merit System claims while still employed, and the circumstances are most often very complicated. I can’t afford to give away the time needed to sort out these cases, most of the time.

Personal Injury matters – Yes, I also handle personal injury cases. Feel free to call me about your personal injury matter and I’ll see if I can help you. If your case is too big for me as a solo, I can associate with other lawyers to assist me, and share fees with them.

Consult fee scale, (unless I offer a free consult)

I charge $250 for a typical consult, and will spend up to an hour with you. In more complex matters, where we need to go overtime, we can talk about what, if any, additional fees might apply — But it is fairly rare that I need more than an hour to sort things out and give you a plan.

We most commonly go overtime in especially complex non-compete and contract matters. But I typically get through a routine non-compete or contract consultation in an hour.

Occasionally, your matter is very complicated, and there is much to talk about, and we end up spending a great deal of time together. I am sorry, but time is money, and you get what you pay for.

Due to the education provided by this website, I am often able to sort out a fairly complicated scenario efficiently, because a lot of people come to see me already armed with quite a bit of general employment law knowledge. This knowledge makes our consultation more efficient. In the office, we can zoom in on the most relevant unique circumstances, and I can send web-savvy people to my website to fill in some of the gaps in their knowledge, rather than charge for the time needed to educate people about basic employment law concepts.

But some situations remain too complicated to sort out in one hour. We sometimes need longer than one hour in billable time. There may be a lot at stake in making the right decision, and several worthwhile options to consider carefully, and we shouldn’t rush things. Even though a consult may cost a lot, you might receive an enormous value because you will have a plan, or have been finally able to make a decision about what to do. With your career on the line, or a lot of money at stake, a consult fee could be a relative bargain if it helps you make the right decision.

Once again, I’ll mention my article Should I sue?, which gives you an overview of the steps that lawyers will probably follow in helping you decide what to do about your situation. There’s usually an awful lot to consider and talk about.

Try not to resent it that lawyers charge consult fees. We’re just working stiffs like you. So often in life, you get what you pay for.

Calling around, price shopping

People often call me and want to know detailed fee info before we consult, because such callers are engaged in Price Shopping for employment law services.

Do such callers believe that any lawyer will give them essentially the Same Advice, and price should be the determining factor? Law is not an exact science. It’s a mixture of science and art, because we are dealing with the vague meaning of words (contained in laws and court decisions and documents and conversations) and people’s motives and actions, rather than the hard reality of tangible things like bones and rocks and chemicals. Every lawyer may approach things differently.

I prefer to learn a little bit about a caller’s situation before getting into fees for ongoing legal work. Please see my procedure for handling your call, where I explain what tends to happen in my office when my phone rings.

You can expect that I will charge a consult fee, at my usual rate. And so the answer we give on the phone is usually “yes, Phil charges a fee to consult, and fees for further services will be determined by Phil during or after the consultation”.

Many people want or expect a free consult, but I only oblige sometimes …

CAUTION — The vast majority of people will not receive a free consultation from me. I am sorry that I cannot oblige most people.

My assistant has instructions to ask you a few questions when you call, and if you cannot afford the consult fee, my assistant will process your call according to criteria I have dictated, and if you appear to possibly meet the criteria, she will tell me, and I will determine whether I am willing to see you without charging consult fees. Although I Love a good strong contingency fee case as much as any other lawyer does, I cannot usually tell whether you have such a strong case unless I have consulted with you in detail. But once in a while, your circumstances really “jump” out as possibly special, and I offer a free consult.

If you are looking for a free consultation, and most people are, you are essentially asking a lawyer to try to help you determine if you have a worthwhile case, and step you through some or all of the process described in my article called Should I sue?. Take a look at those articles to see how much you are asking an employment lawyer to do for free.

Employment law is not like ordinary personal injury law or workers comp law: it’s much more difficult to determine whether you have a decent employment case. When you call a personal injury law firm about your car accident case, the call screener asks you a series of questions that, if you answer them right, means you almost certainly have a good contingency fee case (The other driver got ticketed, your medical bills exceeded $50,000, etc). But employment law is way, way more complex than that, and way way more difficult to determine if you have a worthwhile case for purposes of contingency fee representation.

It takes a pretty strong-sounding set of facts to get an employment lawyer to devote a lot of time to consulting with you without charging anything. Please understand that the majority of people who feel mistreated by an employer do not have strong legal claims to file in court for many highly technical legal reasons, but there may still be plenty they can do about the problems.

Those whose legal positions are weak may still have lots of legal rights, so there is a lot I could talk about with them regarding their Missouri employee rights and the pros and cons of litigation and the benefits and risks and disappointments of the various courses of action available. Also, I can help Strategize with people on how to strengthen their potential cases. But I can’t afford to give away that much time in most cases.

Free Workers Comp Consultations

Workers Comp consults are free. I have an entire article dedicated to talking about my Workers Comp Services. I’m quite pleased with the package of services I’ve been able to put together for you. Take a look at Phil’s Workers Comp-related services.

Here is what usually goes on during a legal consultation:

You will get a reasonably thorough discussion of the unique facts and circumstances of your employment problem

Review of your key documents

A discussion of the various courses of action available to you under your unique circumstances

A discussion of how the legal system will deal with your unique circumstances

After our consultation, you will be armed with much info and be better able to make an informed decision about how to proceed. Perhaps you will decide to drop the matter. If you decide to drop the matter, then you may have saved yourself many thousands of dollars in wasted legal-related expenses, simply by spending a modest amount on consultation fees. Sometimes I serve you best by talking you out of proceeding with your weak case, but I usually charge for that service.

Get a taste for how complicated the consult might get by reading Should I sue? and the articles linked-to from that article.

The stakes are often very high and careful consideration is called for. An employment case is not a minor auto accident case with simple property damage. We’re talking about your career. That affects your quality of life, and your family’s quality of life, for perhaps the remainder of your life in one way or another, in terms of your pay, and your satisfaction, and whether you will have to leave the area if you can’t get the problem resolved.

If you’ve potentially got a worthwhile case, and perhaps a severance-waiver-of-rights offer on the table, then there will obviously be a great deal to talk about and a very careful analysis of the situation is needed.

If you are having a career-threatening problem at work, and you want help in deciding what to do, it might take an hour for me to become reasonably comfortable that I understand the important details of your situation, and only then are we able to begin the process of analyzing your options and determining the best course of action for you. It takes time to give appropriately careful consideration to your circumstances.

If you’ve been unfairly fired, and have a typically muddy case where there are lots of facts both for you and against you, it takes a lot of time to carefully analyze the circumstances and help you decide what to do. Many people do not end up suing, though, because on balance their cases are not strong enough, and so they can’t get favorable-enough terms from any of the employment lawyers in town. It just doesn’t make much sense for me to give away a lot of time just to help you decide not to hire me.

Some people come to me with loads of documents they’ve accumulated, such as during a Federal EEO or Merit System investigation or a lawsuit they filed by themselves. It takes a lot of time to review the material and talk about what you should do. So it’s possible for consultations to last a long time.

I’ll mention my article Should I sue?, which gives you an overview of the steps that lawyers will probably follow in helping you decide what to do about your situation. There’s usually an awful lot to consider and talk about.

It’s often unclear initially whether you have a worthwhile employment case.

Believe me when I tell you this: I Love a good strong contingency fee case, and I look hard to find them.

BUT (there’s always a “but” isn’t there?) – The first time you call my office, it’s most often unclear whether your situation will be worthwhile to pursue. We may see some hints that suggest you might have a worthwhile case, but I will need a lot more detailed information. I need to find out your facts in detail, and find out a lot of personal info about you and your goals and personal situation in life. I may need to do some legal research. Then I can help you decide whether your case is worthwhile considering all the most important factors.

If it’s unclear whether you should pursue your case (and it usually is unclear), how can I stay in business giving away my time helping you decide not to hire me? So I will usually charge you a consultation fee.

See my article Should I sue? for a general overview of the steps that lawyers will probably follow in helping you decide what to do about your situation.

When I decline to offer a free office consultation, or decline to assist you in any way, I am not passing judgment on your potential case.

There are many reasons why I might decline to meet for free, or even refuse to meet with you at all.

The biggest reason is that the typical case is simply too muddy and messy to know, in advance of a consult, whether anything is worthwhile to do.

Don’t be afraid to call around to more lawyers. You might find one who is willing to consult for free.

Attorney fees for ongoing legal work or litigation

Generally speaking, fees for ongoing legal work of any type are set case by case and situation by situation. Often, a contingency fee of some form will be appropriate. But even with a contingency fee, you may be required to pay a modest amount in guaranteed legal fees, to help reduce the risk to the attorney. Each lawyer handles it differently, and each case is unique.

Fees to sue someone for you are variable: Occasionally I will do a case on pure contingency fee, where you don’t pay legal fees unless you collect. But pure contingency fees are the exception in employment cases, because most people just don’t have a strong enough case. It will usually cost you some legal fees to get a lawyer involved in your case, so that we share the risk. The fees will vary case by case.

Fees to assist you with your charge of discrimination filed with the EEOC or MCHR (see discrimination) are variable: I often assist on at least a partial contingency fee, with some guaranteed fees. It all depends.

Fees for various miscellaneous legal work are variable: It’s all case by case really. Depending on the type of work to be performed, and how much work there will be, the fee will be set accordingly.

How do you like the vagueness of the above answers? I sure wish I could be more firm in my answers, but every situation is unique. For example, even though non-compete cases are usually pure hourly fees, I sometimes do them on a flat fee basis, or do parts of them on a flat fee basis (such as a restraining order (TRO) hearing). It all depends ………

Miscellaneous Expenses in employment matters, especially lawsuits

“Miscellaneous expenses” are not attorney fees. They are various costs, such as filing fees, deposition expenses, copy services, expert witness fees, etc. For much more detail, please see my article on Expenses in Employment Litigation.

It’s rare for there to be any significant miscellaneous expenses unless an actual lawsuit is filed.

A lawsuit is when a lawyer files a Petition for you with a court of law. EEOC charges are not “lawsuits” even though the general public often thinks so. People often call me and tell me “I’m suing my employer” when all they’ve really done is filed an EEOC charge. That’s not a lawsuit. Also, people often think they’re “suing” just because their lawyer is making out-of-court demands for settlement, but that’s not the same as filing a lawsuit. If no lawsuit has been formally filed with a court of law, then it’s rare for any significant expenses to be incurred in the case.

Miscellaneous Expenses (other than attorney fees) are sometimes quite high in employment lawsuits. It is fairly rare for employment lawyers to pay the expenses of a routine case. Almost always, the client will have to agree to pay the expenses of the case. Of course there are many exceptions, and the stronger your case the more likely it is that you will find a lawyer willing to front the expenses.

In lawsuits, common miscellaneous Expenses include the following: court filing fees, depositions (court reporter fees could be a handful of thousands of dollars), expert witness fees (doctors and others might charge a couple of thousand dollars), travel (if witnesses are scattered around), copying (mucho paper must be copied during a case, at about 4 cents to 8 cents a page), long distance telephone calls, and many other expenses. (Attorney fees are not “miscellaneous expenses”. Attorney fees are separate expenses.)

TRAP: In employment cases, if you lose the case, then the court will enter a judgment against you for the miscellaneous expenses of the winning party (which could run many thousands of dollars, just like your own expenses). See Expenses and Pros and Cons of litigation for more info.

SEVERANCE-WAIVER consults

We discuss your unique situation in depth.

I will interpret your key contracts. Some people have several contracts that need to be reviewed such as a non-compete and their initial employment contract and also the new severance contract.

I will tell you how to improve the severance contract if you decide to sign.

I will analyze the viability of the different courses of action open to you.

I will try to arm you with enough info to make an informed choice about how to proceed.

I consult with you and then you leave to decide what to do. If you want me to take action for you, we can talk about that. If you want to act on your own, you are armed with a lot of info to help you. That’s how I handle most severance consultations.

I almost always charge a consult fee in severance cases, because you’d be quite angry, most likely, if I brought you in and consulted with you for free and talked you into letting me take a contingency fee on getting you more severance pay, and I failed, and (as could happen) you thereby lost all of your severance pay as a result. So I don’t usually consult for free in severance cases.

UNEMPLOYMENT appeals – fees explained

A side benefit of using a lawyer on an unemployment appeal is that you get a lot of lawyer time in trying to figure out what strong legal rights you might have, and an opportunity to question the employer’s witnesses under oath to build evidence for your potential court case.

I try to make it reasonably affordable to have a lawyer assist you with your unemployment appeal, but I can’t do the hearings for free; it takes too much time start to finish. Sometimes I’ve agreed to assume the unemployment hearing burden as part of another matter, perhaps such as representing you in an EEOC or MCHR matter (discussed elsewhere in this article).

When we consult, I assess your chances of winning the hearing, and I offer tips on arguments and evidence you can present at the hearing, if you choose to do the hearing alone.

You do tend to get bang for your buck, however, by employing a lawyer at the hearing level. That’s because you probably have a greater chance of winning the first hearing than you do any further appeals. Further appeals take even more time, and the most relevant evidence for a further appeal consists of the transcript and evidence presented at the first hearing. So if you get the first hearing right, you’ll probably be stronger on further appeal. Either you or your employer can make a further appeal to the Labor Industrial Relations Commission, after the first hearing.

During the consult, I try to determine whether you are likely to benefit significantly from a lawyer’s help, and whether it might be cost effective. Often, I can give you a lot of tips for how best to prove your claim, so that you increase your chance of success without hiring a lawyer to appear at the hearing with you. In that case, you pay the consult fee and we are done.

But if you want to hire me to assist you with the hearing, I usually give you a flat fee rate.

The flat fee will vary according to how complex your case is likely to be. Representation involves office consultations, legal research, possibly talking to some witnesses, possibly trying to get subpoenas, attending the hearing, and perhaps some more time.

It usually takes you and me about 8 to 12 hours to prepare for, and conduct, the first unemployment hearing date. I usually agree to charge a flat fee, and the flat fee may is usually $600 (but could be higher in some cases), but this will give you certainty over your legal fees. I may charge a small flat fee, equal to two hours of time, for the occasional second hearing date (sometimes the judge spreads the hearing over two or three dates due to complexities encountered during the first hearing).

A lot of people could benefit from simply consulting with a lawyer about their hearing, and getting some tips, and trying to do it themselves. So, I very often provide a simple consultation service where I tell you tips to maximize your chance of winning, and you do the hearing on your own ——– but you are having a trial over $8,000+ in benefits —– if you lose you are probably screwed ——- so get a lawyer if you can afford one (call around and see if someone is willing to do your case for fees that you can afford).

EEOC and MCHR charges of discrimination

If you have not already done so, have a look at my Discrimination and Mediation articles to understand something about how the government complaint process
works.

I have several methods of pricing my services to assist you with a charge of discrimination. I have to decide case by case whether, and to what extent, I am willing to gamble my time. To get a taste of how complicated the calculation can become, have a look at my Deciding what to do … suing, etc article.

Representation at the EEOC or MCHR charge level can involve several different things, depending on your situation:

Development of your facts and the legal theories of your case.

Preparing the charge. See my article on Making proper and effective complaints for some of the traps associated with saying too much of the wrong stuff and not enough of the right stuff. If you can, get a lawyer to assist you with your charge of discrimination to try to maximize the power of your charge and minimize the damage to your case from a weakly drafted charge.

Meeting with the EEOC or MCHR and you, during the investigative stages.

Ongoing counseling with you as reasonable and appropriate as the investigation unfolds

Taking witness statements, and meeting with witnesses, where reasonable and appropriate.

Reasonable legal research and argument with the EEOC or MCHR as appropriate.

Handling the negotiations and then the settlement contract, if a settlement occurs.

(Case by case) – Possibly fighting your Unemployment appeal as part of developing your case and obtaining evidence, since we can interrogate witnesses under oath at the hearing.

The representation does not usually include suing for you. Suing is usually a separate matter requiring its own fee agreement.

Time: The EEOC or MCHR representation process usually involves considerable legal time, spread out over some period of months, highly varying case by case. I usually expect to spend anywhere from 15 to 25 hours over the life of the matter, depending on the complexities and strengths and weaknesses of the situation.

Here are some of the more common fee arrangements to represent you at the EEOC or MCHR levels:

1. Contingency fee with a guaranteed minimum fee. This is where you pay some actual fees out of pocket, but you get credit for those fees when the settlement proceeds, if any, are split. I reduce my risk by collecting some fees, so I can afford to gamble time on the matter.

Everything is case by case of course, but a common arrangement is $1,500 or $2,500 against a 1/3 contingency fee, where you get credit for the fee when we split the proceeds of the case.

In some cases, I will ask for more in guaranteed fees.

In some cases, I may agree to gamble all of my time and not require any guaranteed fees up front.

In some cases, I may require a higher contingency percentage.

2. Straight contingency fee. This is when I gamble all of my time on your matter. I may ask for a greater contingency percentage if I am not collecting any guaranteed fees.

3. Straight hourly fees. If you want to assume all of the risk on the case, I am willing to work from a traditional retainer and bill you hourly for all of my time. I will probably be willing to give you a discount off of my hourly consult rate because of the volume of work to be performed. Then, when the case settles, if it settles, you don’t lose any portion to contingency fees. This approach to fees is often quite cost effective if your case settles reasonably.

But it’s all determined case by case, and it starts with an ordinary consultation.

Personal Injury Consults

Yes, I do traditional personal injury work. It’s free to call me and talk a little bit about your case. If I like your facts, I’ll usually invite you in for a free discussion. Depending on the case I often work on contingency fee, but not always. It all depends on your unique circumstances of course. Feel free to call.

Here’s a quick rant about the “tort reform” that’s been in the news for some years: Who is funding the nationwide political attacks on plaintiffs’ trial attorneys? – Well, follow the money and you’ll get your answer – I think it’s insurance companies, of course. Those insurance companies make excess profits by not paying otherwise payable claims, and they are seeking legislative help in trying to avoid paying the otherwise payable claims. They contribute a lot of money, and they buy political support for their scheme to increase profits by capping damage payouts. In other words, “tort reform” means “extra profit” for insurance companies. And the persons who pay those extra profits are injury victims whose compensation is reduced, because the compensation is effectively being transferred back to the insurance company to be used as profits and bonuses for executives, with some left over to contribute to heartless politicians. So a politician who votes for radical “tort reform” measures is voting for more political contributions from the insurance industry, and it’s all paid for by injury victims. Maybe I should write an article about this.

Payment Options, Credit Cards, Telephone and Long Distance Consults

Please don’t let the prospect of paying legal fees or miscellaneous expenses keep you from calling a lawyer and talking about your case. Fees and expenses are determined case by case.

Paying for in-office consults – Checks, cash, credit cards (MasterCard and Visa). Credit cards are my preferred method of payment, for ease of administration. I take MasterCard and Visa in the office or over the phone.

Telephone and Long Distance Consults: If you are in Missouri, we can do a Telephone or Long Distance Consult and you can pay the fee by MasterCard or Visa (or pay by cash or check in advance if we have enough time to arrange a mailing).

Paying for ongoing legal work – If I am charging hourly fees, I usually work from a “retainer”. You place fee payments on deposit with me in my trust account (using checks, cash, credit cards), and I deduct money as I earn the fees. At the end of the representation, I refund the unused balance, minus deductions for amounts owed for expenses and any remaining unpaid fees.

Contingency fee work – (Note: Sometimes you still must make some fee payments, as a guaranteed minimum fee, even if most of the work is going to be on contingency fee. It’s all case by case.) At the conclusion of the case, if we received any money, I take my cut and give you your cut, according to our fee agreement.

Paying for miscellaneous expenses of litigation – I do not advance expenses, as a rule. You have to post a deposit in advance of me incurring expenses on your case.

Timslaw.com Missouri Employment Law

Phil is a Missouri employment lawyer who is licensed to practice in Kansas and Missouri, and primarily takes cases in Saint Louis and Kansas City.
He is a member of the Missouri Bar Association and Kansas Bar Association.
Additionally, he has practiced in the United States Federal Courts of Missouri in St. Louis and Kansas City.
He has also practiced in the Kansas Federal District Court in Kansas City, Kansas.