I’m prompted to write today by both a recent personal issue and how it collides with a new post by the Exterminator entitled “Good Advice”. Sorting through my posts here, you’ll see a pattern of responses to things that piss me off. I can officially mark this as my first response of anger to a posting by someone I actually like. In it, he advices a friend to “shut up entirely” at work about being an atheist which frankly infuriates me to no end. What shocked me was in my anger ridden tippety tapping on my keyboard I found myself profoundly moved and faced with a very real gut check of myself which prompted me to make a decision. Alright, well first let me share a personal issue concerning a friend…

Last night my wife and I went to a farewell dinner for some friends moving to the South for a job, a job and a move prompted by the loss of work here. They are a lesbian couple and moving to a city that’s home to a prominent christian yahoo university. The one getting the job went last month and spent a few days as some sort of trial run, meeting who would be her team and discussing a number of things beyond just work related issues since after all, they will be working very closely together and as a new leader, she wants to be both personable as well as foster an open and friendly atmosphere. Well one of the people went off on her god speech, talking about how Jesus is the most important man in her life, that her belief is what gets her out of bed in the morning and fills her with joy throughout the day and blah blah blah Jesus god salvation yada yada for like 5 minutes. “Oh shit” our friend thought since hey, god no likey the gays. So I ask you what would you do in this situation?

Now mind you, you’re out of work and have been for like a month. Here’s a new job, safe and secure with decent pay and the only thing that has come up in your job search. You have a mortgage and other debts that are mounting and there’s some pressure to solve this no job situation. Of course the easy answer would be to “shut up entirely”. If you were an atheist and faced this situation, would this be your response? Just smile and nod and go through the god motions? Well of course being gay and having a partner you share your home, your life and your love with is not so easy to hide as your atheism. My friend decided to go to her future supervisor and out her self and ask, “is this going to be a problem for you or this company?” to which he said, “no”.

Now ok, the situation is different than what Exterminator describes since in my friend’s case she’s in the power position and apparently those above her don’t care what she is (but I will add that her and her partner plan to register for guns and permits to carry). Still, I could not keep quiet about who I am or what I think if pressed ever, be it family get togethers, on the job with co-workers or bosses or today in my present situation with clients. I don’t wave a flag or have a scarlet “A” on all my clothes but I will not pretend to be something I’m not and I will not allow an opposing assertion go unchallenged. If I were to deny my views, ignore challenges and quietly sit still to either not rock the boat or for fear of retaliation then I am no man, I hold no honor, my views are meaningless and I am nothing.

Many religions, especially the christians, very proudly tell the stories of past faithful who, rather than hide their beliefs to save their lives, openly professed their beliefs. Crucifixions, thrown to lions, burning alive, the whole nine yards. All of these things and countless more for what, a belief in a magic man in the sky and his son, who’s also him too, or something, along with this holy spirit thing that looks like a dove but, well, you get the point. Here we are sitting smugly and brandishing our intellects, our logic and reason but when pressed with real danger we collapse like cheap folding chairs? We close our eyes, bow our heads and deny who we are? I have to admit I’m torn up on this issue of being out and proud. I will say it sickens me to hear stories of people denying who they are or what they believe out of fear but then just how committed am I? I have not posted my real name here. Will someone come for me if I do? Will they go after my wife? Will they attack my business? Are my convictions strong enough to require truly outing myself?

I’ve thought about friends of mine who aren’t white who’ve experienced prejudice and indeed violence. I’ve also today thought about friends of mine who are gay who have both made no effort to hide who they are and those who’ve made every effort to hide who they are. I’ve thought about the ramifications of standing up for who you are and what your beliefs are and finally I came back to an incident in my youth where after seeing a car full of guys harass a girl I threw a bottle smashing against the side of the car and ran. Later that night they found me and asked if I was the one who threw the bottle. I was surrounded by 3 guys with one in my face asking and I said, “yes, that was me”. After some pushing and berating the leader clocked me right in the jaw, spinning me around and nearly knocking me on my ass. I felt the warm blood gush and fill my mouth and the pain begin to send shockwaves through me. I righted myself and quickly looked around at the 3, imagining how they would soon do far worse to me. Finally I faced the leader, spat my now full mouth of blood on his shoe and said, “you shouldn’t have harassed that girl”. I realized what kind of man I was that night and what kind of man I want to continue to be and that has prompted me to now publicly out myself and I encourage everyone to do the same. I think there are bigger things than just ourselves, but our responses to those things reflect and define ourselves.

61118 Responseshttp%3A%2F%2Fyoumademesayit.com%2F2007%2F10%2F13%2Fin-or-out%2FIn+or+Out%3F2007-10-13+16%3A05%3A00PhillyChiefhttp%3A%2F%2Fmagicanimation.com%2FYMMSI%2F%3Fp%3D61 to “In or Out?”

Fascinating story. Thanks for sharing it. But I think I lost your point along the way.

How will you be outing yourself? A t-shirt? Some kind of symbol stuck on your car? Or are you saying that you will never hide your position when the issue comes up?

I’ve always been publically an atheist, but most people I know still probably don’t know that about me. People rarely ever talk to me about religion. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. I wouldn’t hesitate to argue the atheist point of view if I was ever confronted with an offensive amount of religious talk.

Your post seems a little paranoid to me. When you brought up the concealed guns my instinctual response was “holy shit!” but it only took a few seconds for me to realize how much sense that makes presuming that your friends would be living amongst redneck, militantly anti-gay neighbors. Still, I have never in my own life been afraid that someone might “come after” me or my wife because of my atheism. Maybe I’ve just never lived in a town that has a lot of unconcealed bigotry. Do you have those fears of persecution for yourself?

If you go to his profile, you will notice that he has introduced himself.

@ Philly Dave -

Way to go, buddy. You’re the man today.

I continue to blog without using my name. I won’t make a big issue of defending myself, but will only say that my anonymity has absolutely nothing to do with my atheism. I have NEVER, in any face to face situation (at work, at play, in the company of the many Christians I have met in life), tried to disguise my atheism.

I have to admit I don’t craft my posts well. They just ramble off. I often cringe afterwards at the mistakes but I know how I am and if I waited until it was “perfect” to post, I’d have an empty blog. I just type and let them go.

I now have my name in my profile, which I think is more “out” than putting it in this post since that will stay whereas this post will be buried henceforth under many future poorly crafted ramblings.

Although I have one of those Darwin fishes on my car, I’m really not one for broadcasting the atheism thing, which is why I’m not crazy about the Dawkins scarlet letter but I would never deny who and what I am. Besides, I’m too busy covering everything with Chiefs’ Arrowheads to even have room for scarlet “A”s.

I too live in an area where I probably don’t have to fear for my life for being an atheist, but I wouldn’t hide it if I was. I just don’t make a fuss about putting it in people’s faces, not like I do about the Chiefs, where my first time visiting Colorado I insisted on wearing my #88 jersey to the annoyance of my wife (for those who don’t know, Denver is home to an arch rival of the Chiefs).

Thanks for the nods fellas, of course I’m assuming you’re fellas, but with just pseudonames I can’t be sure.

There is a lesbian couple two doors up from me, and they haave become good friends. Their kids are great, and it appears that my wife and my relationship have been the hetro example for them, the young’uns not being gay. The one lady has her own business, the other works for a fairly large corperation. They are not, to most people, “out”.

Three years ago they asked my wife and I if they could on occasion, borrrow me if they needed an escort for some social functions connected with their work, and I do so.

Most people around me know I’m an atheist, and they have been taken aside on occasion and asked if they are aware that they are with a (shudder) atheist. It’s to laugh.

It's funny, people have mentioned to my wife that they've seen me at such and such a function with one of these women, she says that yes, I was there with one of them: they're nieghbors, the Signifigant Other couldn't go (not specifying WHO the SO is) so they borrowed me for the evening. As I'm a musician, if they feed me I'll be good.Most people have no problem with this at all. Odd, that.

One of these days I’ll get around to posting a football themed piece. I’m not sure if it was the Exterminator who said football or sports in general are like religions but that’s pretty true. Visiting Arrowhead stadium a few years ago was probably on par with other’s trips to Mecca or the Vatican. I’m no bandwagon fan, I represent no matter what.

If outing myself inspires you b. frank then great. I just think it’s the right thing to do.

Sarge, I think it’s sad your neighbors have to play such games but everyone has to do what they have to do. You’re a good guy for standing in as the hetero partner. As for people warning your friends that they’re with an atheist, yeah, that is funny. What, will it rub off on people? Is it contagious? Oh, if only it were.

You probably know better than me, PC, but what is the Pennsylvanian official take on atheism and public office? I am a fellow Pencil Tuckian, and I have heard that it is somewhat ambivilant on fitness for public office. The interpretation leans more toward deism than not, so I’m told.

Actually Philly, Art. I, section 4 states: No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth.

I found this disgusting annotation in the footnotes to this section: A witness should believe in a Supreme Being, but he is not necessarily disqualified because his religious opinions are not such as are generally accepted by orthodox Christians; the true test of his competency on the ground of his religious belief is, whether he believes in the existence of a God who will punish him if he swears falsely. Cubbison v. M’Creary, 2 W. & S. 262, 1841; Blair v. Seaver, 26 Pa. 274, 1856; Lucas v. Piper, 40 L.I. 5, 1882.

Thankfully, the rulings that support this annotation are largely made moot by 42 Pa.C.S.A. section 5902, which provides: (a) Religious opinions not to disqualify.–The capacity of any person to testify in any judicial proceeding shall not be affected by his opinions on matters of religion.

(b) Religious belief may not be shown.–No witness shall be questioned, in any judicial proceeding, concerning his religious belief; nor shall any evidence be heard upon the subject, for the purpose of affecting either his competency or credibility.

(c) Definitions.–As used in this section the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

“Judicial proceedings.” Includes all matters of whatever nature, relating to practice in or authorized by any tribunal whether of record or not of record, within this Commonwealth.

“Witness.” Includes every person who shall make statements, either oral or written, in any judicial proceeding.

As I’ve only completed my 1L, you’d be better off asking an actual lawyer about this. However, the section in the Constitution above, well it has been made rather pointless by later statutes, was never overruled in court. It’d be interesting to see if anyone challenged the constitutionality of the above statute in relation to the Pa. Constitution only to have the Pa. Constitution challenged in relation to the No Religious Test clause of the U.S. Constitution.

There are a few other state constitutions that also seem to have religious tests; however, no one enforces them anymore.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. It is scary to think that’s a potential battle. I do have this list of states with articles that prevent atheists from holding public office or even testifying as a witness in court.

There was a guy who less than 10 years ago challenged a state on this by running for governor. I think it was one of the Carolinas. Anyway, it took many years in court so theoretically, a candidate could be blocked from running for years if the issue was brought up.

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I really admire the way you think and it is always good to share such amazing real life stories that have a direct impact on our society. So many people do not think in the same way. I read about resume planet and the other ideas that are workable and it is always good to share your views because it helps a lot of people to stay motivated in what they are thinking and doing in their life.