I think he can also be useful as a cutter, straight line driver and on the fast break because of his athleticism. He should never be asked to create for himself though. Honestly, Ross should focus on becoming elite as a shooter and defender, if he can do that, he can play big minutes effectively.

This - which also happens to be how I feel about DeRozan with the exception of post ups versus smaller 2-guards.

It's still too early to say if Ross should be used as a go to scorer or lock down defender or spot up shooter or whatever. He needs to get some consistent playing time to show what he's got. He also needs to use the summer to work on his game because he was not impressive at all in the SL.

I like Xixak's example of the Spur's giving guys specific roles, but as he himself mentioned you want to get more out of a #8 pick. We're looking for guys to build around, not the other way around.

Your mistake, I believe, is in assuming that Ross has even touched his actual potential....I'm fairly confident he hasn't. The problem is that before they can do ANYTHING with him he has to play proper basketball, consistently. He continues to fail at this. Nobody wants him to go, or bust, or whatever....just get his head out of his ass and get better.

As for the decision..... I was talking about Ross and his horrible decision to go to allstar weekend instead of resetting, recharging and getting his shit straight.

I still don't understand what's wrong with participating in a dunk contest.

It's still too early to say if Ross should be used as a go to scorer or lock down defender or spot up shooter or whatever. He needs to get some consistent playing time to show what he's got. He also needs to use the summer to work on his game because he was not impressive at all in the SL.

I like Xixak's example of the Spur's giving guys specific roles, but as he himself mentioned you want to get more out of a #8 pick. We're looking for guys to build around, not the other way around.

Yes I did say I would like to get more out of a #8 pick, but the fact is we didn't draft more.

If Ross can shoot 40%+ from 3, score 15ppg, grab 5 boards and play lockdown defense... then he is a player you can build with. That's what we should be focussing on growing him into. Send him out there and ask him to play iso-ball, and he's going to under-perform and DeMar will take all the minutes at 2-guard. He has never been that type of player so idk why you would want to turn him into that now. Find me one guy who went from being a 3+D guy in college to being a breakdown/iso/lead your team in scoring type guy at the NBA level. When you ask players to do things they aren't good at, they won't be successful.

I mean we've seen that time and time again with this team. We brought in Bargnani, a stretch forward, and asked him to bulk up and play center... this is illogical. If we had just developed him into an instant-offense 6th man type stretch big from the start, I think he actually could've been a good asset for this team. DeMar DeRozan's 3rd season (and 1st half of last year) is a similar story. Asking a guy like him to create off the dribble is just asking for him to under-perform.

Yes I did say I would like to get more out of a #8 pick, but the fact is we didn't draft more.

If Ross can shoot 40%+ from 3, score 15ppg, grab 5 boards and play lockdown defense... then he is a player you can build with. That's what we should be focussing on growing him into. Send him out there and ask him to play iso-ball, and he's going to under-perform and DeMar will take all the minutes at 2-guard. He has never been that type of player so idk why you would want to turn him into that now. Find me one guy who went from being a 3+D guy in college to being a breakdown/iso/lead your team in scoring type guy at the NBA level. When you ask players to do things they aren't good at, they won't be successful.

I mean we've seen that time and time again with this team. We brought in Bargnani, a stretch forward, and asked him to bulk up and play center... this is illogical. If we had just developed him into an instant-offense 6th man type stretch big from the start, I think he actually could've been a good asset for this team. DeMar DeRozan's 3rd season (and 1st half of last year) is a similar story. Asking a guy like him to create off the dribble is just asking for him to under-perform.

Agreed. I like Ross and think he still has a high ceiling and that he could develop along the Paul George line, but we can't force him to be VC or Demar or any other player out there. The Raps have to make the most of his talents and continue to develop him. As he is on a nice rookie deal, he could be the best trade asset of the 3 wingers.

Yes I did say I would like to get more out of a #8 pick, but the fact is we didn't draft more.

If Ross can shoot 40%+ from 3, score 15ppg, grab 5 boards and play lockdown defense... then he is a player you can build with. That's what we should be focussing on growing him into. Send him out there and ask him to play iso-ball, and he's going to under-perform and DeMar will take all the minutes at 2-guard. He has never been that type of player so idk why you would want to turn him into that now. Find me one guy who went from being a 3+D guy in college to being a breakdown/iso/lead your team in scoring type guy at the NBA level. When you ask players to do things they aren't good at, they won't be successful.

I mean we've seen that time and time again with this team. We brought in Bargnani, a stretch forward, and asked him to bulk up and play center... this is illogical. If we had just developed him into an instant-offense 6th man type stretch big from the start, I think he actually could've been a good asset for this team. DeMar DeRozan's 3rd season (and 1st half of last year) is a similar story. Asking a guy like him to create off the dribble is just asking for him to under-perform.

You're entitled to your opinion and could very well be right that Ross is nothing more than what we've seen so far, however it's not a fact as you've stated. You have to give the kid a chance to prove himself before you categorize him into whatever box you want to put him in.

Your examples of college players and even Bargnani are kind of misleading imo. Guys are subject to what their coaches use them as in college. Teams draft guys based on potential and not based on how they were used in college. Granted at some point someone should have realized Bargs isn't a franchise player, however they sure as hell didn't draft him 1st over all so he could be a stretch 4 coming off the bench. The point here isn't that you are wrong, the point is that you haven't provided Ross enough time to prove you wrong. He's a rookie that wasn't NBA ready and got really unsteady minutes in his first season.

I've got no personal knowledge of who Ross is or how he thinks, but he constantly reminds me of a 15 year old being asked to be a man. The sulky looks on his face when he gets yanked for screwing up, his poor decision making when he is playing defense (they do have scouting reports), his desperation shots when he does come back into the game, like he has to quickly prove something, I don't know...he just acts like a kid who is immature, or doesn't care, or hasn't learned how to get outside his own head and play a team game. Just my opinion.

He has had 10 years of serious basketball behind him, being coached all the way. He has no doubt been to summer basketball camps, been instructed by professionals who do nothing but teach or coach basketball for at least the last 4 years, and he still seems lost on the floor.

He is getting paid millions of dollars a year to play a game FCS, and it's as if it is either too much for him, or too hard. I haven't heard that he is developmentally delayed, so I have to conclude that he just doesn't care enough. I mean, if you wanted to get better, wouldn't you go to Casey and say "Exactly what do you want me to learn to do properly coach" and then hire somebody to work with you all summer just to do those things? The Raps aren't based out of NASA. This is not Rocket science.

Craig has said what has been said many times in this thread and all over this forum...IT'S ON HIM!

You're entitled to your opinion and could very well be right that Ross is nothing more than what we've seen so far, however it's not a fact as you've stated. You have to give the kid a chance to prove himself before you categorize him into whatever box you want to put him in.

With all the talk about his offensive role, Ross' biggest issue is on the defensive end. Casey didn't trust him last year to defend properly and it was clearly a big reason he couldn't get much run. If he's as lost as last year, Casey won't play him and he won't get a chance to show whatever it is he might be able to do on offense.

As for what he can do on offense, I am skeptical but people who know more than me keep saying he can shoot it a little, so I look forward to it. When I saw him shoot last year, it seemed like he missed the rim completely at least once or twice a game. To me, that doesn't seem the mark of a great (or even good) shooter but I hope he proves me wrong.

To Xixak's point, I would only add that player development hasn't been a real strong suit of the Raps. From the outside looking in, it seems like (especially in recent history) they drafted guys and never really had a plan for them (e.g. Ed Davis, Ross). Hell, even throw Derozan in there as a guy who I never felt was properly developed.

With all the talk about his offensive role, Ross' biggest issue is on the defensive end. Casey didn't trust him last year to defend properly and it was clearly a big reason he couldn't get much run. If he's as lost as last year, Casey won't play him and he won't get a chance to show whatever it is he might be able to do on offense.

As for what he can do on offense, I am skeptical but people who know more than me keep saying he can shoot it a little, so I look forward to it. When I saw him shoot last year, it seemed like he missed the rim completely at least once or twice a game. To me, that doesn't seem the mark of a great (or even good) shooter but I hope he proves me wrong.

To Xixak's point, I would only add that player development hasn't been a real strong suit of the Raps. From the outside looking in, it seems like (especially in recent history) they drafted guys and never really had a plan for them (e.g. Ed Davis, Ross). Hell, even throw Derozan in there as a guy who I never felt was properly developed.

Perhaps the reason for the big coaching turnover. Let's hope it helps.

With all the talk about his offensive role, Ross' biggest issue is on the defensive end. Casey didn't trust him last year to defend properly and it was clearly a big reason he couldn't get much run. If he's as lost as last year, Casey won't play him and he won't get a chance to show whatever it is he might be able to do on offense.

As for what he can do on offense, I am skeptical but people who know more than me keep saying he can shoot it a little, so I look forward to it. When I saw him shoot last year, it seemed like he missed the rim completely at least once or twice a game. To me, that doesn't seem the mark of a great (or even good) shooter but I hope he proves me wrong.

To Xixak's point, I would only add that player development hasn't been a real strong suit of the Raps. From the outside looking in, it seems like (especially in recent history) they drafted guys and never really had a plan for them (e.g. Ed Davis, Ross). Hell, even throw Derozan in there as a guy who I never felt was properly developed.

Idk why but this team tried to make DeRozan into Kobe, when he really should've been molded into more of a Richard Jefferson type of player.

A more athletic version of Aaron Afflalo would be an awesome complimentary wing and fits perfect next to somebody like a Rudy Gay. Not only would he need the ball less than Demar but he would space the floor better and the flow of the offense would be easier to set.

Whoever told you skies the limit is looking dumb because I'm 22 and i'm moonwalking on the sun.

Oh good lord. You guys like ot make things so much more complicated than they are. He's a basketball player. He plays the 2 position which isn't a hard position really, none of them are. First and foremost you have to learn the game of basketball, fundamentally, then yo need to become aggressive and stay active, always.

Call it what it is man, stop making excuses for guys who don't deserve um. Terrence Ross needs to work his ass off to win back whatever he lost last year, its on him to succeed, no the coaches to hide him in little corner where he can be a journeyman as a #8 pick. Fuck that man.

I'm only responding because I'm pretty sure were responding to me. I'm not really keen on debating how RIDICULOUS it is to say that playing the two guard, and in fact playing any position in the nba is easy. Seriously? You break down how "easy" it is by learning the fundementals, and then playing hard all the time. With that reasoning, it's easy to get into outerspace. First you build a spaceship, then you fly into to space. There. It's easy. I'm not making excuses for T Ross, I didn't even say that he would have played better had he been used differently. I just noticed that someone else used a San Antonio reference and I had read an article about SA and there use of players Xixak's post made me think off. Not really sure how that makes me a Ross homer.

"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

I would agree, however, with the line of thinking that there are certain things ross can control and certain things he can't, and it is on him to get results based on the things he can control. Namely himself.

"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

I would agree, however, with the line of thinking that there are certain things ross can control and certain things he can't, and it is on him to get results based on the things he can control. Namely himself.

Oh definitely. It's up to him to become an elite 3PT shooter and defender, no question. The coaching staff's job is to put him in a role that suits those strengths, not to build them for him.

Idk why but this team tried to make DeRozan into Kobe, when he really should've been molded into more of a Richard Jefferson type of player.

DeRozan was considered one of the best potential guys in that draft. He already was super athletic and they forecasted that he could develop the 3 point shot since he was/is a good free throw shooter. Good free throw shooting mechanics often translates to good 3 point shooting range. Unfortunately, they basically threw him the ball on the wing and expected it to happen.

And yes, in the context of the very fact that he is in the NBA, and all the OBVIOUS givens hidden therein, playing a position in Basketball is easy.

This is not new for them.
They have been at it for more than a decade.
Its HARD WORK. Period. Many young players hit the NBA and think, "we've made it." So they stop...they coast, they allow the hype to become reality. I know enough, from experience, that playing a sport at a high level, from a purely fundamental stand point is easy, it flows, the reps make it so. But I also know that the moment you think you are there, and you let up, you're cooked because the game changes, it evolves, and your skills need to as well. Its hard work, its focus, its planning and training, its tape, and constructive analysis and response to critique.

Playing the actual game...at that point however, is the easy part.

The Raptors management and coaching staff have asked all players, just as every other team does, to work on certain things, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt continue doing what they do best. Its simply wrong to believe that this is an issue...as if a player is being asked to learn too much. They are asked to play basic basketball, run the sets, set the picks, release, roll, hedge, call out the ball, tale, box out, rebound...they asked to play basketball, hard. Then, and ONLY THEN can a coach make an assessment on a Rookie or 2-3rd year players true strengths and values.

So I stress, to you again, and yes, this time YOU.... SA doesn't pigeon hole guys out of the box, they do the same thing Toronto is doing with Ross. It may seem as if they do as they have had the same GM, Coach, and system in place for years......makes it look easy, but honestly, if you think otherwise you aren't correct.

Terence Ross aint a bust. Not yet. But his focus HIS, not the coaches, HAS to be to get his head in the right place. Dunk contests, celebrity fun, thats all bullshit in your first few years, his job is to learn, 24/7/ He didn't do that lat year, I guarantee his mates and coaches agree, and he will be expected to turn it up this season.

Terence Ross aint a bust. Not yet. But his focus HIS, not the coaches, HAS to be to get his head in the right place. Dunk contests, celebrity fun, thats all bullshit in your first few years, his job is to learn, 24/7/ He didn't do that lat year I guarantee his mates and coaches agree, and he will be expected to turn it up this season.