If you're an atheist, read this dislcaimer[1]. If you're a theist, no disclaimer, just give me your response based on your beliefs.

Satan was supposedly an angel. God's right hand man ... (according to my Catholic upbringing anyway)... and he rebelled against god (I don't know the reasons why he rebelled).

So now he's in charge of hell, right? ... and he has the power to manifest in this world and fuck around with us trying to get more souls to go his way. It seems he serves god's purposes in adding difficulty to what is supposed to be a 'test' for humans.

... but what does Satan get out of all this? There's not much to do for him in hell... and the company sucks. I imagine millions of people howling in pain can be quite depressing to be around. His only entertainment seems to be in the methods he uses to persuade people to sin and steer them hellbound.

Is that it? That's his gig? I mean, what's he getting out of it? Is he really just doing it all for kicks?

No need to tell me that Satan or god do not exist. I know that. Just entertaining the idea here as I'm not sure if the myth includes a good reason for Satan to do what he is doing or it's just another stupid plot hole in the story. Looking forward to your comments.

I know. It is tough but in this economy you have to take any job out there. Satan is probably working overtime right now.

Lots of us here have offered our souls to the pitchman over the years. I guess He does not like atheists for some reason. We seem to be immune to all this demon possession stuff. Even so I would like my 3 wishes for my soul...is that how it works?

Well presumably he isn't in charge of hell, he was placed there to punish him for rebelling...?

I always thought his punishment was to have to rule over hell, and as you say, the company of countless screaming souls is probably irritating enough, especially if he has to put up with all the dead people from other religions who don't believe he exists.

Now that's the ultimate form of emotional bullying, stuck with billions of people who don't acknowledge your presence.

Poor Satan!

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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."

^^^ I'm trying to remember if it was an opinion from a Catholic churchman that Satan is in some sort of misty place just above Hell.

In the Book of Enoch, Enoch was a lawyer (scribe) who was admitted to the bar of Heaven itself. He got the job of presenting the devils' petition to God for His mercy. God rejected the petition saying that because He doesn't manifest Himself much humans can be in some doubt and ignorance and that is the basis for the Divine Mercy -- we're little kids who really didn't know better. But the fallen angels knew exactly what they were doing so they are condemned to various parts below until the Last Judgement when they go plumb to blazes[1] In Enoch the rebellion was led by Azazel but Lucifer took it over by office politics. Azazel has been chained into a cursed mountain valley somewhere.

In Enoch the tempting demons are the ghosts of the dead Nephilim. They are so addicted to sex and violence that they play us like video games. They are not trying to tempt us to Hell; that's just a side effect that they don't care about.

The Book of Enoch is apocryphal (or heretical) but it's theology makes more sense than the mainstream.

^^^ I'm trying to remember if it was an opinion from a Catholic churchman that Satan is in some sort of misty place just above Hell.

In the Book of Enoch, Enoch was a lawyer (scribe) who was admitted to the bar of Heaven itself. He got the job of presenting the devils' petition to God for His mercy. God rejected the petition saying that because He doesn't manifest Himself much humans can be in some doubt and ignorance and that is the basis for the Divine Mercy -- we're little kids who really didn't know better. But the fallen angels knew exactly what they were doing so they are condemned to various parts below until the Last Judgement when they go plumb to blazes[1] In Enoch the rebellion was led by Azazel but Lucifer took it over by office politics. Azazel has been chained into a cursed mountain valley somewhere.

In Enoch the tempting demons are the ghosts of the dead Nephilim. They are so addicted to sex and violence that they play us like video games. They are not trying to tempt us to Hell; that's just a side effect that they don't care about.

The Book of Enoch is apocryphal (or heretical) but it's theology makes more sense than the mainstream.

Old euphemism for "straight to Hell". It's "plumb" not "plum" because it's from Latin plumbum which means lead.

Nice post,if I were a believer I would probably have to take a close look,the perfect being(God) would not need a place like hell,with the wave of his mighty hand he could fix it all ........but indeed he is a fuckwad and a failure

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There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

I've heard that he loves the smell and taste of BBQ. I mean who doesn't ? Yes, the company sucks to him, but it tastes great !!

But !! God loves the smell and taste more !...He has to:--He's the one who sends the meat there to slow roast in the first place isn't he !? God picks the meat and satan puts it on the spit !! Yeah!! love those back ribs !!

Tag team, slow roast, hickory smoked, fall off the bone, eternal BBQ !! I can just see god and satan doing a high five on the thoughts of that !! Just think, an endless supply of succulent BBQ drenched in sauce and your favorite sides !! Who wouldn't be happy for all eternity with that !!?? The lucky bastards !!!

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"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

There are lots of bad people in this world who have their own beliefs. If Christians are going to Hell, that's bad company. Perhaps it was better to stay in Heaven, unless Satan had good reasons to rebel. Who wouldn't rebel; against that God? But in Hell it can't be much better, having to listen to millions of imbeciles screaming for eternity while God sits back in Heaven having parties burning his son's face onto toast, etc.

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"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."-Thomas Szasz

If you're an atheist, read this dislcaimer[1]. If you're a theist, no disclaimer, just give me your response based on your beliefs.

Satan was supposedly an angel. God's right hand man ... (according to my Catholic upbringing anyway)... and he rebelled against god (I don't know the reasons why he rebelled).

So now he's in charge of hell, right? ... and he has the power to manifest in this world and fuck around with us trying to get more souls to go his way. It seems he serves god's purposes in adding difficulty to what is supposed to be a 'test' for humans.

... but what does Satan get out of all this? There's not much to do for him in hell... and the company sucks. I imagine millions of people howling in pain can be quite depressing to be around. His only entertainment seems to be in the methods he uses to persuade people to sin and steer them hellbound.

Is that it? That's his gig? I mean, what's he getting out of it? Is he really just doing it all for kicks?

No need to tell me that Satan or god do not exist. I know that. Just entertaining the idea here as I'm not sure if the myth includes a good reason for Satan to do what he is doing or it's just another stupid plot hole in the story. Looking forward to your comments.

1st off, based on what the Bible says about the satan, we have no idea if he was ever an angel. In addition, there is no way to be certain whether Satan is used as a proper name of the "devil" or whether it is simply a descriptive title much like 'god' or 'christ' that speaks of a particular being's qualities. We see in the texts that even God, Himself was referred to as a satan/adversary to David as it related to the census (but the translaters decided to actually translate the word as adversary when it referenced God). Peter is also called satan by Jesus, and many believe that the "adversary"/satan Peter spoke of when he pinned these words: Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour was not a reference to some otherworldly entity, but rather a reference to Rome and others who were persecuting the believers of the first century.

1st off, based on what the Bible says about the satan, we have no idea if he was ever an angel. In addition, there is no way to be certain whether Satan is used as a proper name of the "devil" or whether it is simply a descriptive title much like 'god' or 'christ' that speaks of a particular being's qualities. We see in the texts that even God, Himself was referred to as a satan/adversary to David as it related to the census (but the translaters decided to actually translate the word as adversary when it referenced God). Peter is also called satan by Jesus, and many believe that the "adversary"/satan Peter spoke of when he pinned these words: Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour was not a reference to some otherworldly entity, but rather a reference to Rome and others who were persecuting the believers of the first century.

^^^ 1st off, As you can see ladies and gentlemen, the lack of shame continues.

Is that your best interpretation of the reward for that particular central character in this failed and feeble work of an attempt at Historical Science Fiction. ??

Wow, I would have thought you could do better. You didn't answer the question at all.

Of course, you don't have much to work with when the book with the central figure in it, is an irrational failure, so I sympathize.

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"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

I'd say: Satan (Lucifer) gets nothing out of his situation.Further, I'd say he doesn't need to, as he is just playing his part along with every other being.His hopes and dreams are equally unimportant to God (as ours are).

The story isn't entertaining without an incompetent and predictable antagonist.

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

^^^ 1st off, As you can see ladies and gentlemen, the lack of shame continues.

Is that your best interpretation of the reward for that particular central character in this failed and feeble work of an attempt at Historical Science Fiction. ??

Wow, I would have thought you could do better. You didn't answer the question at all.

Of course, you don't have much to work with when the book with the central figure in it, is an irrational failure, so I sympathize.

If lack of shame equates to giving an honest assessment of what is said about the "being" in question, then like Redman once said, "Ill Be That!"

And yes, saying "I'm not sure and I have not been given enough data to provide a definative answer" is in fact my best interpretation. If I were privy to special knowledge, then maybe I could do better, but since all the info on the subject given by the scriptures is MINIMAL at best, and I have no specially gifted knowledge from the Divine, then that is the best I can do.

Based on the biblical writings, it is difficult to conclude whether the satan is even a singular entity as opposed to being a descriptive term that can reference many different opposers or adversaries.

^^^ 1st off, As you can see ladies and gentlemen, the lack of shame continues.

Is that your best interpretation of the reward for that particular central character in this failed and feeble work of an attempt at Historical Science Fiction. ??

Wow, I would have thought you could do better. You didn't answer the question at all.

Of course, you don't have much to work with when the book with the central figure in it, is an irrational failure, so I sympathize.

If lack of shame equates to giving an honest assessment of what is said about the "being" in question, then like Redman once said, "Ill Be That!"

And yes, saying "I'm not sure and I have not been given enough data to provide a definative answer" is in fact my best interpretation. If I were privy to special knowledge, then maybe I could do better, but since all the info on the subject given by the scriptures is MINIMAL at best, and I have no specially gifted knowledge from the Divine, then that is the best I can do.

Based on the biblical writings, it is difficult to conclude whether the satan is even a singular entity as opposed to being a descriptive term that can reference many different opposers or adversaries.

Ah come on man !! Couldn't you have given us just one hypothesis on the reward of the Devil dude ? The whole book is full assumptions anyways, so have your stab at it mate !!

Seriously TOT, you have Got to take a closer look at how deep your trying to go with some of this shit. That's what I'm talking about when it comes to shame.

You'll make assumptions neck deep, like in that post, but then when it comes to a harmless stab at the Mr. Lucy guy, the main point of the discussion, you go all mum !! Dude lighten up !

I may yank your theistic chain a bit here and there, but your probably a swell fella who is just a tad misguided in your thinking. But that shouldn't stop you from going ahead and having some fun !!

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"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Ah come on man !! Couldn't you have given us just one hypothesis on the reward of the Devil dude ? The whole book is full assumptions anyways, so have your stab at it mate !!

Seriously TOT, you have Got to take a closer look at how deep your trying to go with some of this shit. That's what I'm talking about when it comes to shame.

You'll make assumptions neck deep, like in that post, but then when it comes to a harmless stab at the Mr. Lucy guy, the main point of the discussion, you go all mum !! Dude lighten up !

I may yank your theistic chain a bit here and there, but your probably a swell fella who is just a tad misguided in your thinking. But that shouldn't stop you from going ahead and having some fun !!

As I read thru your post I heard a voice saying: "ToT, pipe your ass down!" Which made me laugh. What can I say, forums, especially ones like this can get the competitive juices flowing. Thanks for the laugh.

I don't know. I think I'm with Mr. OT on this one. The whole devil thing just really isn't really spelled out in the Bible in the way that a lot of Christians seem to think it is. For example, I'm fond of mentioning the fact that sometimes the satan is actually doing work on God's behalf. He tests people for God to determine whether or not they're worthy of God's favor and not out of any kind of malice or jealousy or whatever motives are traditionally assigned to the devil. Christians should read Job before they talk all that satan stuff.

Still, I think that for the sake of this discussion, Mr. OT, you can throw yourself in with our lot. You can approach this as an atheist would in assessing the tradition surrounding this Satan character--even if you recognize it as a mishmash of various characters and symbols in scripture rather than an actual character in scripture.

As bad as Satan's existance is in the bible ... it's even more of a problem in the quran.There, God/Allah/whatever tells the Angels to submit to Adam. And Satan goes ... "what? bow down to that piece of dirt" (and you can take the 'dirt' part literally since Adam was indeed made from dirt)

So, Allah decides to have him burn for all eternity and Satan goes, "Hey, why don't you let me run around on Earth and lead people away from you?"

And Allah is ok with this.

(on the other hand ... Islam is all about believing despite all evidence to the contrary, so I guess it does sort of make sense ... as much sense as holy books tend to make, anyway)

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2 Interwebs 7:42And in the seventh year, thou shalt cast out the Nam from thine assembly for he haveth a potty mouth.