Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the
world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to
over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a
wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history,
humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced
features available, you will need to register first. Registration is
absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Well, Well...To each his own...
TO GREG : you're right and I gave a shot in my foot. Donald Moriyama Sensei is Aikikai, not Ki-Society. Correction accepted.

TO LOUIS AND AIKIWHAT : Karl Geis was promoted to 6th Dan by Tomiki Kenji Sensei. Later he created his own style - FUGAKUKAI - and was promoted sucessively (in a period of 20 years) until the 10 th Dan.
By the way, there was a gentleman named Kano Jigoro who created his own style of jujutsu(calling it judo) and an organization called KODOKAN which promoted him to 10th Dan and later to 12th Dan.
Fugakukai is a serious organization and has some excellent sensei and Geis Sensei is a respected master.

TO ANDREW AND TEDEHARA : Tohei Koichi Sensei was awarded 10 th Dan personally by Kaiso who died soon after. After a year of mourning, the Aikikai recognized that rank and issued the only certificate of judan from that organization.

TO EVERYBODY : The same observation might apply to other people on my list.
I tried to use only well recognized and respected organizations, with the only possible exception being the USMAA, but my main choosing method was the quality of the masters listed (in USMAA's case, Walther von Krenner Sensei and Lou Periello Sensei). But, of course, I'm open to criticism from anyone. Addenda, sugestions for exclusion or corrections, are welcome.
Best regards to you all

[Edited by Kami on March 6, 2001 at 02:08pm]

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

I wasn't trying to belittle any of Mr. Geis's accomplishments or his present ranking. Yes, Jigoro Kano founded Kodokan Judo and in a similar fashion you could say the same about O'Sensei founding Aikido. Have a good day!

Kami wrote:
TO ANDREW AND TEDEHARA : Tohei Koichi Sensei was awarded 10 th Dan personally by Kaiso who died soon after. After a year of mourning, the Aikikai recognized that rank and issued the only certificate of judan from that organization.

What about those post mortem promotions to Osawa and Shirata? They both would have been processed by the Aikikai, just like Koichi Tohei's rank, wouldn't they?

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.About KiAbout You

It's hard to say, since they're completely different systems. Personally, I equate it to at least a 10th dan because it implies *final* certification

Chris:
The Menkyo Kaiden was the certificate that gave a student the right to go off and teach in his own right and unsupervised. 8th Dan was the rank given to the first Shihans who were sent abroad to teach Aikido. There's a pretty convincing argument there that O Sensei felt they were about equivalent.

It's hard to say, since they're completely different systems. Personally, I equate it to at least a 10th dan because it implies *final* certification

Chris:
The Menkyo Kaiden was the certificate that gave a student the right to go off and teach in his own right and unsupervised. 8th Dan was the rank given to the first Shihans who were sent abroad to teach Aikido. There's a pretty convincing argument there that O Sensei felt they were about equivalent.

Andrew

Well, as I said, it's hard to compare because they're really two completely different systems. The menkyo kaiden (which is much older) is somewhat more than a teaching certificate, it implies complete transmission of the art (that's all there is, there ain't no more).

After 8th dan there are still two more levels of promotion (although you might argue that they are largely honorary).

Morihei Ueshiba sent plenty of teachers abroad without giving them eighth dans. In fact, his whole approach to dan rankings seems to have been less then rigorous. The whole kyu/dan system in Aikido (for general use) was less than 20 years old when he died, I think that the evidence seems to imply that the standards shifted and flexed over the years (as is probably normal for a new system).

Menkyo kaiden, on the other hand, seem to have been handed out much more rarely. He handed out a lot more 8th dans (and maybe even more 10th dans) then he did menkyo kaiden certificates. Now you might argue (with some validity) that this is because Aikido switched over to the kyu/dan system after the war (actually before, but it didn't become widespread until afterwords), but some of the menkyo kaiden at least were issued in the kyu/dan period.

tedehara wrote:
[BDoes that mean Aikikai might come up with another living 10th Dan? Could (Fill-In-The-Blank) be the next 10th Dan?!?

KAMI : Difficult to believe in that...As you see, there were more than a dozen 10th Dan in judo's history but the majority were indicated more than 50 years ago. My impression is that it gets more and more difficult each year.
Best

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Dajo251 wrote:I dont know if this has already been asked but if someone is a 9th dan and there are no 10th dans in his or hers prganization the how who he or she be promoted?

It's not relevant at that level, as it's not based on a grading. The Doshu (Moriteru Ueshiba) is outside the ranking system, by the way.
I don't know who decides precisely or why though.
andrew

KAMI : The usual process is for the 9th dan group to meet and decide among themselves. It is the same process that happens for the election of a new pope in the Catholic Church. The Cardinals (below the pope in ranking) meet and decide, among themselves, who shall be the new pope. Not to say that it is an easy one...

Best regards

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author