what_now:A six year old that can recite Bible versesA law firm called Advocates for Faith and Freedom Fox News Yeah, I'm sure this is an accurate representation of what happened

This. I'm absolutely certain the kid was not coached to disrupt class by reciting Bible verses so that when she was told to sit down and shut up, they could run to Fox News screaming "CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION!!!1!!1!!"

Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year. He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

nickdaisy:Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year. He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?

Sure, if he isn't being disruptive or harassing, he has every right to talk about the Bible, and to include it appropriately in such a presentation should've been fine. If the school told him differently, they farked up.

BUT a school that is that farking paranoid about tripping over the establishment clause (or alternatively, has it out for Christians) requiring first-graders do a presentation on their family's Christmas traditions?!? These two things do not jibe. AT ALL. So this smells like a big helping of total bullshiat.

Weaver95:mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.

lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....

Oh no doubt. On the other hand, school principals are often not the most intelligent folks on the planet, nor are elementary school teachers (despite my immense respect for them for dealing with little hellions).

Either way, there seems to be a lot of stupidity involved in this story. ;)

mamoru:Weaver95: mamoru: I'm about as athy as you can get, and still I say that, assuming this happened as presented, both the teacher and the principal involved in this situation are idiots.

lets just say that fox news does not have the most trustworthy reputation when it comes to stories such as this one....

Oh no doubt. On the other hand, school principals are often not the most intelligent folks on the planet, nor are elementary school teachers (despite my immense respect for them for dealing with little hellions).

Either way, there seems to be a lot of stupidity involved in this story. ;)

I was about to say - porque no los dos? Me thinks there is plenty of high-grade stupid to go around here.

nickdaisy:Now be fair Farkers-- don't start blaming Fox News and everyone else who doesn't have multiple piercings and a job that pays by the hour. Fair is fair. This kid can espouse whatever beliefs his little mind can formulate (or more likely regurgitate) as long as he's not interfering with the running of the school. He's not a state institution and the school's not sanctioning his speech.

It's the same darn rule you get to use when they drag out that tired "dude wearing dress gets elected homecoming queen" story each year. He's expressing his personal opinion. And just like the school can't stop someone from prancing around dressed like a freak, they can't stop someone from yapping about their favorite fairy tale.

Who's with me?

Trolly phrasing aside, I'm with you.

Wear a garbage bag and read the Upanishad or whatever. Long as it ain't official school policy, I don't care.

Yesterday my 5 year old saw a picture of Shiva and asked who it was. I said he was a Hindu god. She asked me what a god was. I said they were superheroes from another planet. She seemed convinced since he was blue with many arms.

Children should not be so well versed.Parents should lay off the heavy duty religion until the kids are teenagers or later.The teacher stopped one of the most annoying practices of our time.At the very least the kid is being taught the boundaries of polite society.

Hm. The representatives of the government (local, state, federal), which includes teachers and school administrators, cannot mandate that people be subjected to prayer or proselytizing. At the same time, government officials cannot prevent people from observing their religion, so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.

This is kind of a strange case. On the one hand, it doesn't seem wrong to allow the little girl to explain what her family does to observe Christmas, but on the other, if the little girl goes into some kind of speech that causes the other students to be involuntarily subjected to proselytizing, what then?

I'm an antitheist, but want religion to disappear through education and self-reflection, not through any government mandate. I am not at all sure how this sort of issue should be managed. Normally, I'm annoyed that people don't understand the simple idea that government officials are not allowed to favor any religion or lack thereof, but that individuals may pray or otherwise observe their religion without prejudice, as long as it doesn't affect others. This, however, does seem to be a fringe case where the principle itself isn't clear.

The preceding assumes that the article accurately describes what happened.

I thought her speech was kind of adorable. I couldn't help but read it in Charlie Brown's voice.

"Our Christmas tradition is to put a star on top of our tree," the little girl said. "The star is named the Star of Bethlehem. The three kings followed the star to find baby Jesus, the Savior of the world."

Also I don't see the problem with her speech. It would be fun to know about everybody's different traditions and values.

I don't see why a family needs a law firm to represent them over this though. Everybody is over reacting everywhere.

On the one hand, it is totally plausible that there's a school out there that doesn't understand the separation of church and state and thinks that it means that students can't even discuss religion on their own. After all, many on the right also mistakenly think that the bn on school lead prayer means students can't pray at all.

On the other hand, the story comes entirely from some parents who decided to employ The Advocates for Faith and Freedom when they ran into trouble and the only quote from the school is basically "no comment." Which is a WND level of reporting all sides of a story. And it end with "What would you do if this was your child!?!?!?!"