Shhh...I'm straying from the KB forums and I apologize for the rambling post.

Semi-newbie question as guitar technology has passed me by and I'm probably stuck in circa 1991 as far as guitar rigs are concerned.

I currently have what I consider an embarrassing/dated guitar set up consisting of a red knob Pro 185, a late 80's Fender Strat (HSS-ish that was trying to look different and features a Floyd Rose tremolo, which I personally hate btw), a Crybaby wah, and an old rack effect unit that I'm pretty sure is pretty cheesy ;-)

So I am a keys player, and have fairly high end equipment (Motif, Nord etc.), that I've been using in a rock band context. I want to get back into the guitar as well so I can mix it up and be versatile.

So what I'm looking for is advise on where to begin. As I've aged, I've certainly become used to more high-end equipment. Since I don't plan to give up keys, I'm really looking for starting with a solid rig, that's portable, that won't buzz if I decide to run it through my PA at practice, and is powerful enough for practice to stand on it's own...and that I won't think is crap.

Sounds like the Mustang 3 has pretty good reviews. Coming from the KB world though, it almost seems like it is too inexpensive. I was anticipating paying $800 - $1,000 for an amp, but if a $275 fits the bill, less cash on the amp means more cash for other gear. I do think, given everything I've stated, a modeling solid state may be a good fit for getting back into it. Is there something that is much better in the price range I reference? Is it worth it?

With $800-1000 budget, the world is pretty much your oyster as far as finding a quality amp.

From what you say, you probably want an amp that delivers good cleans that you can shape as you see fit. To me, that says some kind of amp from someone like Fender, Vox, Peavey, Carvin (and others)- and my personal prejudice is towards a combo tube amp.

(Yes, there are good solid state amps out there, but I don't know them- someone else will probably jump in the thread with that info.)

Personally, I own a Fender HRD 40w combo, and it has all the power you need to gig and great cleans.

For guitar, I'd upgrade your Strat if you like that body style. Try a HSS or HSH guitar from Fender, Godin, G&L, Fernandes, or similar brand for tonal flexibility.

For effects, there's a world of pedals, but I'm guessing with all of your other stuff, space is going to be at a premium. So you'd either want some new rack effects setup (so you can go vertical) or a good multieffects pedal, and I'd probably go MFX at this point. There are lots offood ones out there, but adding your expertise and probable gear to the mix, I'd go for the DigiTech IPB-10. It uses an iPad* & apps to model a huge number of amps and pedals, and supposedly, they're adding more all the time.

(In addition, incorporating the iPad to your rig- if you haven't already- could let you experiment with things like the ReacTable app.)

* the iPad apparently does NOT need to be attached during performance, just setup.

Greetings, Fusker, you've found a kindred soul, over here. I'm a guitarist who loves to play synths, as well.

First off, unless you just can't live with the Floyd anymore, there's no reason to abandon your guitar rig. If you've really come to hate the trem, decent MIM (made In Mexico) Strats show up for around $300, used. You probably won't be able to drop a standard Fender trem system back into your guitar, after it's been routed out for a Floyd. The Pro 185 is considered a very good solid-state amp, so unless you want to join the Tube Purist camp ($$$$!), it's worth hanging on to. You've got twin 12's, channel-switching, an effects loop and plenty of headroom. The Crybaby is still an industry standard among Wahs, and it's pretty easy to mod, so again, it's worth hanging on to.

However, if you're looking for a rig you can easily plug into your PA, or a FRFR sound system, you really might want to forgo hauling a guitar amp at all, and look into pedalboard-style multi-effects. I have a ridiculous pedal collection, and a very nice Roland BC-60 Blues Cube, but my quick-&-easy rig is a Boss GT-3 going into a small KC-60, or direct into the PA. Boss, Digitech, Line 6, TC Electronic, Vox and Zoom all make different multi-fx, with a variety of effects and amp models, and different degrees of complexity. If you enjoy programming synths, you'll appreciate the depth & compactness of some multis. The Mustang gets very high marks among guitarists, for tone, variety of effects, and ease of use. You can also use a multi-effect unit in the effects loop of the Pro 185, just turn off any amp modeling, or speaker emulation.

Because of Moore's Law, and outsourcing, multi-effects are much less expensive than they were, 15 or 20 years ago - it's not unusual to find small multis costing $100 or less, with decent, if not really impressive sound sets. Also, the overhead cost on a Chinese-made effects unit is considerably less than on a Yamaha Motif, or a Nord Lead - Korg's MicroKorg is probably a better point of comparison. At $300 to $500, you should expect a lot from a multi-effects unit. Having said that, I'd be interested to know what your old rack unit is, and if it has any of the features you might be looking for in a more up-to-date box.

I'd be happy to continue this discussion, so you can send me a PM, if you like. (Maybe you can tell me why so many KB players seem to hate the Roland KC's, too?) With any luck, Caevan, jimi, Scott Fraser and Harvey will join in, too, they always have good contributions to these discussions.

Edited by WinstonPsmith (12/07/1210:20 AM)Edit Reason: sp.

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

Definitely want good cleans as I'd be primarily rhythm. Being in the sticks makes it challenging because there is a definite limitation on quality that is nearby.

What I'm getting at with the Mustang question, is it just a case of delivering really good performance "for the price"? Or will it annoy me and I'm better off spending 500$+? I literally just started digging into this today. My first instinct is tube...but it does seem like the modeling technology is mighty tempting from a footprint and ease of transportation perspective.

I'm not foolish enough to think whatever I start with will be the end of the road...ultimately, I'm going to have an array of stuff in the studio.

How are people feeling about the new Gibson Studio's? Such as Studio ? Looks really nice. I have however, only played Fenders in my life...but again, ultimately I plan to start amassing a few guitars. Really looking for some starting pieces in my effort to re-rig.

Great feedback! My bass player actually has been using a Boss module to go straight into the PA...talk about easy set up!

As to the Roland KC's...I think a lot of it is snobbery. They are a pretty standard back-line and work fine as a monitor. Where they fall short is as a standalone, particularly if you are playing piano sounds in a wine-bar type setting. In that scenario, using a good powered speaker such as the K10 offers better results in general...and are much easier to lug.

If you're thinking about spending $1300+ on a guitar, Carvin would essentially build a guitar to your specs - hard to pass up, although you won't get to really check it out until they ship it to you.

Back to price point vs. quality on effects. Unless you're going for one of the TC Electronic G-Systems ($1300+/-), or the Roland VG-99 ($1500+/-), $500-700 should get you all the effects and modeling firepower you need. If you decide to go for one of the new Roland rigs, the GR-55 ($700/$800 w/GK pickup) or the VG-99, you'll need a hex pickup with a 13-pin connector, too. The GR-55 is the latest in their line of Guitar Synths, but they've incorporated a lot of the effects processing and guitar/amp modeling from their other floor processors, as well. It also works as a guitar-to-MIDI converter, which may be of interest to you.

The other potential advantage to a good multi-effects is that you already have a lot of options for a live sound rig, without hauling yet another amp just for guitar. That Pro 185 weighs in at around 60 pounds - my old GT-3 weighs in at around 8, and my newer GT-10, coincidentally, weighs in at right about ten pounds. It also saves me hauling a bunch of pedals, cables & power supplies, with all that they weigh. Even a basic pedal board, with 6 or 8 pedals and a good-sized power supply, weighs a lot more than 8 or 10 pounds.

One warning on the Line 6 POD HD multis - seems like it's pretty easy to max out the DSP in those. The issue came up in another thread, some time ago. Haven't had any experience with the HD's, personally.

BTW, thanks for the word on the KC's. I got my KC-60 for $75 at a local pawn shop, and it's served me well enough that I've thought about moving up the line to a 150 at some point.

_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

If you're a Les Paul kinda player, the Les Paul Studios are fine. Since you strike me as more of a Fender kinda sorta guy, I recommend that one or another Carvin model will better suit you all-around in feel and tone alike.

Now, if you want a brand-new amp, I can heartily recommend the Fender Super-Sonic 22. Its 22 watt rating belies a good, spanky, chuggy LOUD amp, and its two channels are pretty versatile and simple to use, as well. It should be plenty stout-hearted enough for you, especially if you cultivate your 'touch' and 'play the amp' technique- crank it up a little louder than you intend to play, and roll-back your guitar's volume-knob just a tad for perfectly nice clean rhythm playing. (You might not even need to do that much, if you play at more or less 'reasonable' volume-levels.) Remember, a 22 watt tube-amp is generally a LOT louder and stronger than double or more Solid-State watts...

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I used to think that a 60 watt amp was ideal for me, nearly my minimum- but these days I get by with 7 watts quite nicely, albeit 7 all-tube, true Single-Ended Class-A watts. If you're of the same inclination that I used to be, you're partially in luck; there's a Fender Super-Sonic 60, similar to the Super-Sonic 22 but considerably LOUDER, as well- but it's about $300 above your stated budget, unless you score a good deal on a used specimen.

By the way, if you get either of these amps, get a Dunlop "Jimi Hendrix Octavio" pedal, dime both of its knobs, roll your guitar's knob down and bring it up a bit at a time and revel in the saggy, swelling, harmonic-overtone morphing chaos that ensues playing single-note and double-stop leads and fills through the Super-Sonic's "Burn" Channel!

You know, you're probably right...I think I like the idea of a Gibson, but at heart, it should be a Fender. What made you reach the conclusion I'm a Fender guy? American Standard Strat still the...well standard? Or is there a named model people are gravitating towards?

Have me leaning towards a Fender of some type and the Fender HRD3 at this point. Lots of good tips guiding my research.

You know, you're probably right...I think I like the idea of a Gibson, but at heart, it should be a Fender. What made you reach the conclusion I'm a Fender guy?

I figure, a keys player used to SS amps and a Fender Strat, that doesn't like the Floyd Rose, probably wants spanky attack, definition, a fair amount of brightness but with chunk, and the tauter feel (both for picking and fretting hands) of a Fender-ish, long-ish scale-length axe. If you're used to Fenders, Gibsons can sometimes feel and sound a little weird, like they're a little muffled, too rounded, and short and claustrophobic; and the greater contrast among the variety of sounds from a Strat's pickup-selector can make it seem like there's little or no change in the three selections between two humbuckers. Gibsons and similar guitars aren't really like that, of course- they're just different from Fenders and require a different hand and ear.

I do think that you'd like a Carvin, though. Many- perhaps most- of their models strike a nice balance-point between Fender and Gibson feel and tone, with definition and attack that's more like a Fender, even with humbuckers- more of a crisp chunk, if you will.

I'd bet that a nice custom-ordered dual-humbucker or H-S-S Carvin with an ebony fretboard, played through a Fender Super-Sonic 22 or 60, would suit you very well- clean, overdriven, or screamin'.

Big Carvin fan here...believe I currently have 2 mains, 2 monitors, and a power amp all made by Carvin. My bass player has one of their 5 strings and a combo amp as well!

Most keyboard players like going direct to a PA, so you might check out the Fender Mustang Floor pedal which has all the same modeling as the Mustang III amp, but you don't have to pack the amp. It has L/R xlr outs and all of my guitars sound great through my Carvin PA and Fishman PA's using the Floor pedal. You can also use it at home with your existing amp to practice with, and it cost the same or less than the Mustang III. I would go for the III, if I needed an amp, but the Floor sounds great through my tube and SS guitar amps as well.

I haven't read all the responses, but I can only advise getting an amp modeler/multi-fx like a Line6 Pod. When you have a gig and play both keys and guitar, the guitar amp might be the piece of gear that's just too much. When I do a keys/guitar gig, I usually only bring the pod for the guitar. And for a more guitar-oriented gig, then I bring a tube amp and the pod as a backup.my 02c.

I'll second Caev's recommendation for the SS22. It will likely be my next amp purchase, hopefully next year.

As far as the LP Studio, don't let its stripped-down appearance fool you...they are top-notch guitars, imo. Bought mine new in '93 and would never consider selling it. I'd assume they're built just as well now (though mine has an ebony fretboard - dunno if that's still an option) as they were then. Differences are (and forgive me if I miss some - doing this from memory): no binding (on neck or body), very limited color choice, no flashy figured tops, and a painted logo (as opposed to the inlaid m.o.p.)...and I believe that's it. Same basic body/neck wood, same hardware and electronics.

O0O0O0OH... ! I JUST saw where you can get a used/Excellent Condition Fender Super-Sonic "Vibrolux/Bassman" (the previous Super-Sonic version/model) with a Celestion Vintage 30 12" in it for $895. I've known the store-owner for decades, he's a real stand-up guy. If 60 watts isn't too much power for you, this amp would do you VERY well. If you're genuinely serious about it, I could check the amp out live and in person and tell you what I think... (I stand to gain nothing from this if you buy it, by the way... )

Yeah, when I get to go down to the Guitar store and fire up a Fender Super-Sonic, I stand to gain nothing either...You know you have to go down there now and tell us what you think of that amp Caevan! Have fun with it...

Yeah, when I get to go down to the Guitar store and fire up Fender Super-Sonic, I stand to gain nothing either...You know you have to go down there now and tell us what you think of that amp Caevan! Have fun with it...

Oh, there's lot's of gain, on-tap...

Seriously, having plugged into several, I already know that the whole Fender Super-Sonic line are winners, a BIG improvement over the Hot Rod Deluxe and DeVille line. I just meant that if Fusker is very serious about it, I can check this specific one out concerning the state of its tubes, speaker, etc. and report back. If Chris (the store-owner) posts that it's in Excellent Condition, I am confident that it IS in excellent condition, but if Fusker (or anyone else who is serious about buying the amp) wants, I would be willing to kick the tires, take it for a test-drive with a guitar similar to their own, and give a full and impartial report...

LOL - I'm still a few months out at this point on the amp. I'll probably get a new guitar first. That's a pretty sweet deal though!

Yeah, it is, and I immediately thought of you when I spotted it in the line-up...

Keep me posted, check back at that link, too, who knows how long they might have it there- great amp, good deal, but they have a LOT of amps in stock, new and used, and I suspect that things are, unfortunately, moving more slowly than they'd like. It might sit there for a while! Or, it might get snapped-up or traded for.

Again, I'm NOT in cahoots with IGW or Fender, I don't "sell" things here- just ask other Forum members here. I just shoot straight and tell the truth on gear recommendations.

I have a white Studio with the ebony board, and its tone, playability, and compact size have made it the axe I almost always gig with, and I have a sizable collection of Holy Grail guitars. It, and a good Strat or Godin Freeway Classic can cover all the sonic bases I need. I would keep the Strat you have, and acquire something that contrasts with its sound, with a Studio offering the best high quality bang for the buck, IMHO. Add a good Tele down the road, and you'll have every sound you'll ever need, short of the specific jazz archtop tone that really can't be gotten with solid bodies.

All good points, maybe I'll throw some $$ at my current Strat and see if it helps. Could be a good project actually. To be clear though, it is one of these "Strat"but in black...not my cup of tea!

Y' know what, I recommend that you DON'T 'throw some $$ at your current Strat'- it'd fast become a money-hole that won't satisfy you, ever. Not because there's anything wrong with or bad about that guitar, but because it's like trying to modify a '79 Corvette when you find you want a '50 Mercury.

Maybe I'm wrong; but...

Tell me, what would you be changing on this Strat, what would you be spending money on?

First thoughts are a new neck to get rid of the head, not to mention the neck is beat to hell as it's the original. But, I also don't care for the Bridge/trem, and I should probably evaluate the pick-ups as well....so you may be right, could be a big money pit.

First thoughts are a new neck to get rid of the head, not to mention the neck is beat to hell as it's the original. But, I also don't care for the Bridge/trem, and I should probably evaluate the pick-ups as well....so you may be right, could be a big money pit.

Sounds like the guy who had inherited George Washington's hatchet, the one he chopped down the cherry tree with; only the handle had split and gotten splintery, so it had been replaced with a new one that was carved to fit the owner's hand; and then someone had replaced the head, which had gotten rusty, chipped and pitted... still had the ribbon, by George!

I prefer the single speaker. I play a Boogie 1-12 combo 50 watt Dual Caliber. It has always worked great but it lacks audio taper at the bottom level. On 2 thing is still too loud sometimes. On 3 or 4 it peels paint.

If I had to buy a new amp I am really liking the Express 5-25 Combo from Mesa right now. .... but there are a lot of good amps I just happen to be a Mesa Boogie guy. Been playing them and OLD Fenders forever.

For $1000 I like the new AC30 but they are heavy and it sounds like VOX, so you would either like it or you really won't like it. AC-15 may be a more sensible amp but if I get a VOX I would probably want the whole tamale. But Vox make some of the modeler thingies that will not sound like a Vox if you don't want it too.

If you want a lot of bottom end crunch a sealed back cabinet Maybe the way to go. Blackstars sound good in the store but I don't how they hold up and how they behave live.

Your guitar is out of production. Fender was trying to answer the competitions' various "Super Strats" with one of their own - a bad gamble. An actual Stratocaster is a different sounding and feeling guitar, and is the most successful, most copied, most emulated, and most versatile guitar ever built. Not bashing yours, but as a discontinued item, as a result of poor sales, Caev's right: don't toss money into it; you won't get it back out if you decide to sell it. It's a good guitar for the metal/grunge scene, and will always be a perfectly adequate backup axe just as it is, questionable neck and all. The trem can be blocked, which would be more appropriate for rhythm anyway.

Guitars are such a personal thing. One man's treasure is another man's ****. Right now my main guitar is Chinese Fender cheapo Tele. Jack and the wiring were trash I had to fix that but I've left the rest stock.

It is an ultra lightweight Tele with a contour cut. A coil tapped humbucky in the bridge a Strat pickup in the middle and a Tele pickup in the neck. I have some high dollar stuff but I really like this cheap light guitar. Neck plays nice for me.