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I was listening to system0 today, and I only just noticed what the lyrics at the beginning of it are saying.(Before I could only understand part of the second half of each line, but now I feel stupid for not noticing it.

"Believing oneself to be perfect is... often the sign of a delusional mind."
"Small words... from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't understand!"

I wonder if -45 is a trekkie, haha.

Now I need to watch that scene from First Contact and see how much more epic it is with this song in my head.

I was listening to system0 today, and I only just noticed what the lyrics at the beginning of it are saying.(Before I could only understand part of the second half of each line, but now I feel stupid for not noticing it.

"Believing oneself to be perfect is... often the sign of a delusional mind."
"Small words... from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't understand!"

Oh is that what the second line is? I got the first one, but I didn't have a clue about the second. Fits so well... especially in the scene it plays in.

The chinese group on other forums are releasing EP2 in a month
Then I can participate in the Ep2 discussion thread as well ^_^
Hopefully you guys can release it ASAP so I can introduce it to my classmates

I recently started on the chinese version of ep 2, but then I realized that I've never unlocked Bernkastel's character image. Can anyone tell me?
Edit: nevermind, found it. By the way, there's a summary of umineko at http://calamitousintents.wordpress.com/, it's not finished though

I recently started on the chinese version of ep 2, but then I realized that I've never unlocked Bernkastel's character image. Can anyone tell me?
Edit: nevermind, found it. By the way, there's a summary of umineko at http://calamitousintents.wordpress.com/, it's not finished though

Ooh.. The Chinese patch for Ep2 is finally out? They kept their promise for a May release! I think I'll get started with it later today. Can't wait til more of Ep1 is out in English so that I can convince more people to give this game a chance.

I finally got around to reading the translation of Legend of the Golden Witch. I quite liked it and thought it maintained tension quite well.

I tried second-guessing Ryukishi07 about what what really going on, but that merely resulted in me going in circles (e.g. 'X is too simple. But what if he knew we'd think it's too simple and did it because whe'd think that way? etc').

Most of the points I had thought of after finishing the VN have already been raised in this thread except for one:

Spoiler:

It's regarding the conclusion on the notebook page that's found in a wine bottle a few years after the incident:

"If you read this, at that time, I'll probably be dead.
My corpse may exist or may not exist, however.
You, who read this.
Please, disclose the truth.
That's my only wish.
Ushiromiya Maria"

a nice parallel to Onikakushi-hen. However I found this note to be truly bizarre. Maria in the story appears to fully believe in Beatrice. As far as she's concerned, she knows exactly what's going on; people are being killed by a witch. Why would she want to ask people to solve a mystery to witch she already has the answer? Therefore I'm guessing that either the note was written by someone other than Maria or Maria was only pretending to believe in a witch and was trying to solve the mystery by herself. (Or the scenes we see in which maria seems to believe in a witch are all hallucinations.)

Another question is when Maria threw the bottle in the ocean. We only see her near the sea before the murders start and the note would have had to been written after the incident finished. Did she live long enough to write a note and go throw it in the ocean? Or perhaps like Rika in Higurashi she had seen this situation unfold before and written about it before the murders started?

And now here's an off the wall theory I came up regarding the culprit:

Spoiler:

It was the captain of the boat that brought them in. He only pretended to sail off again but in reality went and disembarked to some spot on the island not visible for the mansion. His motive is that he's actually Maria's father in disguise and he wanted to have revenge on the family that spurned him. Because of his hatred for Rose he kills her first but lets Maria live because she's his daughter. Maria cooperates with him because he's her father and she's fed up with her mother's abusive behavior.

I finally got around to reading the translation of Legend of the Golden Witch. I quite liked it and thought it maintained tension quite well.

I tried second-guessing Ryukishi07 about what what really going on, but that merely resulted in me going in circles (e.g. 'X is too simple. But what if he knew we'd think it's too simple and did it because whe'd think that way? etc').

Most of the points I had thought of after finishing the VN have already been raised in this thread except for one:

Spoiler:

It's regarding the conclusion on the notebook page that's found in a wine bottle a few years after the incident:

"If you read this, at that time, I'll probably be dead.
My corpse may exist or may not exist, however.
You, who read this.
Please, disclose the truth.
That's my only wish.
Ushiromiya Maria"

a nice parallel to Onikakushi-hen. However I found this note to be truly bizarre. Maria in the story appears to fully believe in Beatrice. As far as she's concerned, she knows exactly what's going on; people are being killed by a witch. Why would she want to ask people to solve a mystery to witch she already has the answer? Therefore I'm guessing that either the note was written by someone other than Maria or Maria was only pretending to believe in a witch and was trying to solve the mystery by herself. (Or the scenes we see in which maria seems to believe in a witch are all hallucinations.)

Another question is when Maria threw the bottle in the ocean. We only see her near the sea before the murders start and the note would have had to been written after the incident finished. Did she live long enough to write a note and go throw it in the ocean? Or perhaps like Rika in Higurashi she had seen this situation unfold before and written about it before the murders started?

And now here's an off the wall theory I came up regarding the culprit:

Spoiler:

It was the captain of the boat that brought them in. He only pretended to sail off again but in reality went and disembarked to some spot on the island not visible for the mansion. His motive is that he's actually Maria's father in disguise and he wanted to have revenge on the family that spurned him. Because of his hatred for Rose he kills her first but lets Maria live because she's his daughter. Maria cooperates with him because he's her father and she's fed up with her mother's abusive behavior.

That's really interesting. With the letter in the bottle I had the same ideas when I first read it, I can't wait to find out the truth! ^.^

And now here's an off the wall theory I came up regarding the culprit:

Spoiler:

It was the captain of the boat that brought them in. He only pretended to sail off again but in reality went and disembarked to some spot on the island not visible for the mansion. His motive is that he's actually Maria's father in disguise and he wanted to have revenge on the family that spurned him. Because of his hatred for Rose he kills her first but lets Maria live because she's his daughter. Maria cooperates with him because he's her father and she's fed up with her mother's abusive behavior.

That sounded alright until the end where if you read ep2, there's this scene with worldenddominator that would blow your theory away.

I thought the whole letter was really odd to when I read it since Maria seemed to already believe that everything was the witches doing.

But I agree with Rias, after playing through the second episode (before the rough script got taken down xD), that scence he mentioned would probably blow it away completely. All of ep.2 is just quite the crusher for ep.1 theories. (And ep.3 for like everything I've heard)

Also, heres a small thing I noticed when I played Ep.1. When the first letter was read at dinner, after they took of Kinzo's special wax seal, it mentioned that Hideyoshi quickly grabbed. I only noticed it because I knew some of the story beforehand so that stuck out to me. And now I'm wondering, that maybe if could be possible for them to make their own letter. But then...how would they get his envelopes.

That sounded alright until the end where if you read ep2, there's this scene with worldenddominator that would blow your theory away.

Don't worry; I didn't take that theory seriously either. I simply wanted to create a theory that has the high speed boat captain as a culprit and went from there.

Since it's set in 1985 maybe Ruykishi07 should have this incident be orchestrated by the KGB (e.g. Krauss' recent mysterious funds have been provided to him by the USSR in exchange for him providing intelligence on Japan that he gained through his connections. However he eventually demanded too much money and tried blackmailing them thus becoming a liability, so the KGB decided to eliminate him along with anyone that might have discovered this secret). Might as well take advantage of fact that the cold war is still taking place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinigami_Mello

Also, heres a small thing I noticed when I played Ep.1. When the first letter was read at dinner, after they took of Kinzo's special wax seal, it mentioned that Hideyoshi quickly grabbed. I only noticed it because I knew some of the story beforehand so that stuck out to me. And now I'm wondering, that maybe if could be possible for them to make their own letter. But then...how would they get his envelopes.

You mean reuse the was seal on a different letter? That would be a bit tricky I think, since you'd have to melt the back of the seal to stick it on the letter and that would be likely to distort the front of the seal an make it appear to have been tampered with.

Finished episode 1 a while back, and I did find the story quite interesting. Can't deny it feels very different from higurashi, but sometimes I forget to not link them..
Oh, I'm so icthcing to start discussing theories :P also, just for the sake of some extra information, I've read the other epiosdes thread (can't hurt to try to confirm your theory, right?).

I agree with many things said here, but I'd like to focus on dismembering the mysteries presented in episode 1 not touched yet...
Let's just start with the obvious.

Spoiler for culprit?:

My three top suspects are, at the moment, gohda, Rosa and Nanjo. xD Not quite sure of the motives (heck, It'd be impossible to solve the whole mystery on the first episode), but for some reason, they sparkle my interest, besides making lots of sense. for starters, Nanjo, being the medic, can easily lie about the bodys' state or time of death. rosa.. is just highly suspicious, and has the closest resemblance to what Maria would call "beatrice". as for Gohda... he's just a hateful character.

Spoiler for Maria's Beatrice:

Well, what can I say, THIs is actually a lie, because at least TWO people do not have clear alibis, and ONE even lied about it. Number one suspect is Nanjo. It is not possible for him to have been playing with Kinzo all afternoon, as he said, because we see a scene where Kinzo is actually ALONE in his room (the one he throws his ring out the window.). correct me if I'm mistaken, but I really do not recall Nanjo being present at the time. And I certainly do not believe he could be there, because 1) he would've mentioned it when the letter was read during the dinner, and 2) he would've probably said something at the time. Next up is rosa. Remember, she was actually sleeping when she *remembered* Maria could be alone in the rain. what she was doing before, we really don't know, except that she knew Maria was there beforehand, and even "conviced" her to stay there (by bashing her up, and leaving her alone, besides making the other three go to the guesthouse.) I don't know if this was an accident or not, but truth be told, if Maria hadn't appeared, the three would not move away from Maria thus leaving her alone. also, and this another topic, no one needs to cosplay Beatrice. One simple voice would suffice, and even if I don't know how Nanjo could pull this off, you need to pay attention to the fact that: 1) It's rainy, and foggy, if someone appeared it would be hard to be seen, at least fully). 2) No one even needs to talk, it's quite possible that, seeing how Maria is the age she is, she would believe it was Beatrice. this is just one example of how this could happen. Nanjo/Rosa leaves the umbrella and a note, telling Maria exactly what to do, and who the person that sent the leter is. this is one of the easiest theories to follow. either way, be this true or not, one must focus on this point: MARIA BELIEVES IN BEATRICE AND WITCHES INCONDITIONALLY, because it's what makes her "special" in her own eyes.

Spoiler for Death of the six:

quite frankly, this is easy to explore, and due to the fact there are so many possibilities, I'll just say these two words: Master Key.

Spoiler for Kinzo's room:

So, this was the easiest of all for me to explain... if I was Battler, I would completely pawn Beatrice at the Tea Party. Muehehe. First of all, how did Kinzo leave his "closed" room. I'm pretty sure many missed this, hell, even the characters missed this obvious part, but, being the only one that knew of the receipt, what clears Eva from any suspicion? for starters, she could be lying, and secondly, if she knew where the receipt was, would it be hard for her to break in Kinzo's room in the timeframe she mentioned and kidnap the old man herself? But this what bugs me the most... Obviously if someone was waiting for the right time to kidnap Kinzo, they would be on surveillance, thus seeing Eva put the receipt there. ..now, one might ask how to enter the room without the key. Well, I'm sure you remember that Kinzo was found in the incinerator with the key. It's possible, that in the first day, any one of the servants (And NAnjo) had the chance to steal the key, and hand it over to the one surveilling his room. after that, it's just easy to figure out what happened in the afterwards, culprit enters room, knocks Kinzo unconscious, exits room, goes to boiling room (whatever way is fine, after all, everyone is in the parlor, except for Eva and Hideyoshi if they already left for their room, OR everyone is in the storehouse sulking at the six's deaths. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if this was actually the case.), completely unnoticed, and starts burning Kinzo with the key. since he's uncosncious (or even sedated), he won't notice, and therefore, he's not going to wake up.

Spoiler for Eva and Hideyoshi:

At the beginning, I thought that these two were the main culprits in this case, but after thinking a while, I just dismissed this possibility. this is not hard to explain at all, either, by simply using the thoery Battler used for Kinzo: the murderer just hided after placing a new chain. even if this sounds a bit risky, there is another possibility that makes more sense: the culprit just used a master key and used an iman, or lured Eva or Hideyoshi out and knocked them unconscious. But by the look of things, I'd say Eva and Hideyoshi's planned murder didn't exaclty go like the plan, but still succeedeed. Let's imagine Rosa killed both. she probably knew their room had a chain, so she brought a iman to open the door. Or she could lure Eva out. Sounds tricky? Not really. Remember what the other characters said about the letter? That it would be placed if the people in the room didn't answer the door? think about it this way. Rosa comes and knocsk on the door, getting Eva's attention. Upon "not receiving any answer" (she would fake not hearing Eva in case she did ask who it was, besides you must remember the TV was still on), she put the letter so that it could be seen by Eva but not in a way that you could get it with door locked. Eva would think this was Genji's doing, because even though this wasn't a normal situation, Genji still acted like a true servant, and therefore would not talk in order to not interrupt the people inside. Reasoning this way, she'd open the door, letting Rosa step in, murdering both. Eva still had her shoes on because the criminal did not have enough time to take them out. this is, because at the time she was going to, Genji and Kanon appeared. this is where it gets kinda tricky: either Rosa stayed hidden under one of the beds, or she left as soon as she could, using the 5 minutes she had to draw the circle. Or she didn't even have to- it's possible that she had a way of plastering the whole thing into the door (using for example, graffiti spray, or some other kinda of non-stinky spray, on top of a paper). also, since the door was open, it is not impossible (and I know this because I've tried it) to lock the chain from the outside if it's not in place. I might have missed some spots but I'm pretty sure I nailed some pretty good possibilities.

Spoiler for Kanon in the boiler room?:

Easy peasy. There was someone down there, burning Kinzo's corpse. If I went with my theory, I'd say it's pretty possible Gohda was the one here. It's also possible he is communicating with his accomplices using radios, so he knew he could draw someone's attention. BOOM, Kanon is in the dark and is dead. I bet he couldn't even see who killed him. and if he could, it would kinda explain his anger and what he said, is it not right?

Spoiler for Final letter from beatrice:

Yeah right. It's quite obvious that either Maria or Nanjo put it there. do not forget the possibility Nanjo can be manipulating Maria by the use of some notes he puts in her sack. since few people pay attention to her, it wouldn't be surprising she read some of those notes telling her what to do. there are also many timeframes when Maria is alone. the most obvious possibility here is that "beatrice" gave Maria that letter when she was alone watching TV in the parlor. (If I'm not mistaken, this is when everyone is on a frenzy running at the storehouse in the garden.) Maria knows (she even said it), that "Beatrice" can't enter Kinzo's room, therefore she has to find some way to make them leave. (Or she was told that they had to leave so Beatrice could carry out her plan by a note Beatrice (actually Nanjo) made magically appear (Actually wrote it on their way to the room, and put on Maria's bag without her knowing). on her bag. Quite simples if you ask me. Maria can be smart enough to perceive Beatrice won't kill them in that room, so she finds a way to make them leave.

Spoiler for Natsuhi's Death:

even easier. It is revealed in the next episodes there are more winchesters than the one Natsuhi is holding. Also, it is quite obvious the "butterflies" and "Beatrice" are just illusions, or better yet, that the way Ryukishi wrote it, metaphors. "a swarm of butterflies" is obviously the culprit, because we all know Beatrice appears IN THE FORM OF BUTTERFLIES. so, wordplay here is what wins. Also, "golden witch raises her staff" = culprit readies the weapon and shoots. Simples as that, and then "culprit" swapped the guns.

Wow, huge text, though I'm not quite over yet, there are still two things I haven't seen anyone mention:

Spoiler for Butterflies:

My guess is that there are various ways to interpret and expalin each of the butterflies' appearance. Wheter it is wordplay (metaphor), or just an illsuion, or even maybe reality, there must be a way to explain those. First, shannon's butterflies could just be REAL butterflies. After all, the windows were open and the forest is full of fauna. Second, Kanon's butterflies. who said that the furnace was turned off when Kanon arrived? It is possible that these golden butterflies... were just ashes or flames from the furnace. It was dark, and Kanon couldn't see very well. He could have seen things that weren't there. We also know for a fact that the culprit was still there. Hadn't finished cremating yet? Well, duh. :P third, Natsuhi's butterflies. WORDPLAY. and that's it... tell me if I've missed any butterflies :P

Spoiler for Natsuhi:

I'm sure I wasn't the only one to notice this... Natsuhi's headaches must have a reason, so there's something about her that we don't know yet. My guess is that she walks during her sleep, doing stuff she doesn't know of (creepy). What strains her brain so badly? Maybe she was even the one that scratched at her own door, after walking around the mansion and accidently touching blood somewhere. ...But besides that topic, it is also possible that, because she was sleeping heavily (remember the pills?), she did not hear when a bloody someone (oh, might it be Shannon?) grasped at her door for help. why she wasn't one of the six, the answer is quite simple: the six sacrifices were already dead. No need for a seventh person. And finally, I found it quite weird that in the end of the first night, there is a scene where we see everyone and where they are, or what they're doing. I don't recall seeing Natsuhi during this intermission! Is it because there were no sprites for sleeping people? :O xD

well, this turned out to be quite a long post. I hope I made some sense :P