QUESTION: Let me
first ask you about the importance of the evidence that
Ukraine says, and has shown CNN, that Russia is fully and
directly involved on the ground with special forces in
eastern Ukraine.

ASSISTANT SECRETARY
NULAND: Well, I think we’ve made absolutely clear
that we are very concerned about the Russian hand behind the
destabilizing things that we’re seeing in eastern Ukraine.
The President’s made that clear, as has Secretary Kerry,
and you’ve shown some of the photographic evidence,
including the bearded man, who was clearly a GRU agent in
Georgia and who appears again in eastern
Ukraine.

QUESTION:
—are active in eastern Ukraine. So tell me now, then, what
is the status of this deal that was signed in Geneva on
Thursday, and does not appear to be being
implemented?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY NULAND:
Well, as you know, Christiane, on Thursday, the foreign
ministers of Ukraine, Russia, the United States, and the EU
agreed that it was absolutely essential and urgent that
these separatists who are occupying buildings and are
setting up checkpoints need to stand down now, need to
participate in negotiations, and that the Organization for
Security and Cooperation in Europe would be assigned to work
with the Ukrainians to try to negotiate them out of these
buildings. So OSCE teams, very senior-level teams, have been
in some of the hottest towns in Donetsk and in Slovyansk,
trying to work on this kind of de-escalation. There have
been a couple of small towns where buildings have been
evacuated successfully by the Ukrainians in the last couple
of days, but we have not seen the kind of major
de-escalation that we’re looking for, nor have we seen
serious Russian efforts to help the OSCE, or to speak out
against the separatists since
Geneva.

QUESTION: So the Russian foreign
minister, as you heard me say, blames the United States,
saying that you have to control your clients, as they call
it—the Kyiv government—and they’re saying that there
are buildings still occupied by forces in Kyiv as well. What
can you tell me about that?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY
NULAND: Well, first of all, since the Geneva
agreement was inked on Thursday, the Ukrainian government
has stepped out very smartly to try to implement the
provisions that are within its power. For example, the
agreement calls for amnesty to be granted to anyone who
voluntarily left buildings or abandoned checkpoints. The
Ukrainian government immediately—the next day—put into
the parliament, a very, very broad amnesty bill that would
meet that requirement. It has also sent senior-level
representatives out to the east to work with the
OSCE—something that the OSCE also wants Russia to do,
which it has so far not agreed to do. And in Kyiv itself,
some of the barricades around the Maidan have come down, but
you can’t compare the situation in Kyiv, where now
everything that is still being held by protestors is being
held with licenses and with the agreement of the government
of Ukraine, with the agreement of the Rada, or with regular
leases from the owners of the buildings. You can’t compare
that to what’s happening in eastern Ukraine, where you
have armed separatists wearing balaclavas, carrying very
heavy munitions, holding government buildings, refusing to
allow monitors in, refusing to allow journalists
in—kidnapping journalists, in fact—I think you saw,
Christiane, that there were four or five journalists
kidnapped in Slovyansk, and one is still being held
today—this is not a comparable
situation.

QUESTION: If that’s the
case, then, give me an idea of who’s actually calling the
shots on the Russian side. Obviously President Putin is the
president, but it was Sergey Lavrov, the foreign minister,
who inked the deal, and at the same time, just about, you
heard President Putin talking about “New Russia,”
alluding to an ancient and old word Novorossiya, claimed a
lot of those eastern Ukrainian towns, talking about the
authority to invade if he had to, and basically, as we’ve
just seen, not implementing the provisions of the deal on
the ground. Is there a gap between Sergey Lavrov and
President Putin? Are you talking actually with the person
who’s calling the shots?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY
NULAND: Well, as you know, Christiane, President
Obama has spoken to President Putin a number of times over
the last three weeks, on basically a weekly basis, to try to
encourage de-escalation, to try to say to him that there is
a better way, that Russia has a choice; but also to make
clear that if it continues to destabilize Ukraine and deny
Ukrainians the choice to make decisions about their own
future, that there will be more costs for Russia: more
isolation, and more sanctions. But more broadly, we continue
to be concerned that you cannot dress yourself like a
firefighter and behave like an
arsonist.

QUESTION: So when you talk to
Sergey Lavrov, do you think you’re getting an agreement?
This one was practically unraveled before it even was
signed…?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY NULAND:
Well, as the Secretary said to Foreign Minister Lavrov on
the phone today, it is still within Russia’s power to
demonstrate that it meant what it said last Thursday. It can
assign a senior Russian to go out with the OSCE teams, to
make clear to the separatists that they do not have
Moscow’s support, to help negotiate them out of these
buildings—and if Moscow will do that, then the Ukrainian
side will be in a better position to meet its obligations
under the agreement, which also include a broad national
dialogue about constitutional reforms, other steps to
address some of these grievances politically, rather than
through arms. But we’ve yet to see Russia put that kind of
commitment into stabilizing the east, and that’s what
we’re looking for.

QUESTION: You know,
the Russians have blamed the United States fully, laying it
all at your door. And they particularly point to you, and
they recall when you were handing out food in the Maidan
when all of this started—when the unrest started, and the
protests started—and then, I spoke to a member of
parliament—also a member of President Putin’s
party—and this is what he said about you and the United
States.[Video played]

QUESTION: So I
don’t know whether you heard that, Victoria, but Nikonov,
the member of Parliament, saying that you had spoken for
about five billion dollars for democracy, and they see that
as a code word for “regime change.”

ASSISTANT
SECRETARY NULAND: I didn’t hear Mister Nikonov
speaking. The United States has invested some five billion
dollars in Ukraine since 1991 when it became an independent
state again after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And that
money has been spent on supporting the aspirations of the
Ukrainian people to have a strong, democratic government
that represents their interests. But we certainly didn’t
spend any money supporting the Maidan; that was a
spontaneous movement, which is a far cry from what we are
concerned Russia is up to now in eastern Ukraine. And with
regard to the day on the Maidan when I was present, that
visit happened the night after the Ukrainian special forces
under then-President Yanukovych moved against peaceful
demonstrators, and began pushing and shoving them off the
Maidan, and it was a very scary and dangerous night. They
ultimately had to pull back when more peaceful protestors
came and surrounded them, and the next day, when I went to
visit Maidan, I didn’t think I could go down empty-handed,
given what everybody had been through. So as a sign, a
gesture of peace, I brought sandwiches to both the Maidan
protestors, and to the Berkut
soldiers.

QUESTION: Let’s get past the
sandwiches, because I want to ask because you were also,
famously, caught on tape basically berating the Europeans
with some well-chosen words. Do you think there is a gap
still between Europe and the United States, especially on
efforts to deter President Putin. Where will sanctions go,
and will they be targeted enough to make a
difference?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY NULAND:
Christiane, we have been working in lockstep with our
European partners. We have now done two rounds of sanctions,
they have now done two rounds of sanctions. The President
had very good consultations when he was in Europe about
three weeks ago with key leaders. He has been on the phone
with key leaders in Europe on a weekly basis to ensure
we’re all seeing the situation the same way. And we are
all committed to trying to de-escalate this diplomatically,
that’s why you saw EU High Representative Cathy Ashton
there with us in Geneva trying to de-escalate the situation.
But we are also together in having to impose costs on Russia
if it doesn’t participate in allowing Ukraine to move
forward and make its own choices about its own
future.

QUESTION: Vice President Joe
Biden is there. Previously, the CIA Director, Brennan, was
there. What is it that you can do to help the Kyiv
government just survive? It has been widely-considered that
in so-called anti-terrorist efforts, or its attempt to
impose its authority in the east [inaudible], and everybody
has said that if there was any major confrontation, the
Ukrainians would not be able to hold their own militarily
against Russia. What is it that the United States has to do,
and can Kyiv—this interim government—survive until their
election?

ASSISTANT SECRETARY NULAND:
Christiane, this interim government was brought in to do two
things, primarily, for the Ukrainian people. And on both
fronts, they are doing very well. The first was to try to
negotiate a deal with the IMF, where they would institute
real reform and try to turn the page on the age of
corruption that had been rampant in Ukraine. And they have
now successfully inked a deal with the IMF, they’ve also
passed a vast amount of reform legislation, including to
tackle corruption. They were also brought in to take Ukraine
to free and fair elections, and those
elections—presidential elections—are scheduled for May
25. There are some 20 candidates registered in those
elections, representing all parts of the spectrum. But now,
obviously, with this destabilization in the east, they also
have to ensure that the country is peaceful enough for those
elections to go forward. And that is why we went to Geneva,
and that is why we are pressing so hard on the Russians to
help, and that is why we are encouraging the government in
Kyiv. And they’ve done a good job with this as well—to
reach out to the east, to make clear that grievances can be
addressed politically, that the rights of ethnic Russians,
Russian-speakers, will be protected, that the Kyiv
government is ready to de-centralize far more power out to
the east, allow them to budget on their own, allow them to
elect their own leaders—so they are doing a good job. But
there is a small group of separatists who are supported from
the outside who are trying to steal the choice of the
Ukrainian people about their own future, and that is what we
are trying to help them prevent. And that’s why Vice
President Biden’s trip is important, to give them the
moral, political, the economic, the diplomatic support that
they need.

QUESTION: And on that note,
Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State, thank you
very much for joining us.

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