Corporations and governments (which nowadays are ALL corporate entities) have no substance and therefore do not exist in the real world. They only
exist in the minds of men and women.

I am starting to understand your point a bit better, is law nothing more than an idea? Law is a set of rules that establish the norms. Take 'Thou
shall not kill for example', does this behaviour result purely as an idea or is this idea a result of behaviour?

This is a hard question, for
it rests against one of the walls of the box you were born into. The true substantive law is so simple that no lawyer could get a job if we refused
statutory regulations. It is: "what goes around comes around", or, "what you put out comes back to you", or "what you do to another you do to
yourself". There. That's the whole of the substantive law. It is not subject to obedience or disobedience. It operates on everything in existence,
all the time, and even outside time. It's like gravity.

I know that's different from what you said about Law above. Let me clarify: the "set of rules that establish the norms" are purely the invention of
man. "The norm" is the invention of man. No man has substantive authority to compel or forbid any action on my part. That is called slavery, and it
is no longer allowed on a socially-accepted level, as its instructiveness was played out years ago. As inventions of man, statutes have no substantive
authority over any man except to the extent to which he willingly or ignorantly subjects himself to them. Not the UCC, not the US Code, not Common
Law, not even the Magna Charta or the Code of Hammurabi (though many aspects of common law and the C of H are in accord with skillful living under
substantive law, especially where contracts are concerned), and If I want to be a Wal-Mart em-ploy-ee, I can do so, if I want to subject myself to all
of these imaginary rules. The up-side is that I get all kinds of benefits (money, wide-screen TVs, a Toyota, a decent apartment, health insurance,
limited liability). The down-side is that I divorce myself from the true source of authority and make myself a slave. It is up to each individual to
make that choice. Most do such-like unconsciously, because they see no other way to be. That's the work of the PTB (not to be condescending or
anything, I know this is a conspiracy-oriented site and most know a lot of this stuff already). They are the "black hats" in this game, and they
have done a bang-up job.

Lets step back a bit before man with the law of the jungle and survival of the fittest. Did all the animals take on this idea or was this just
the environment?

The animals are representative of a stage of the evolution of consciousness. As such, they are subject to the law, just as
rocks are, and trees (which also have a kind of consciousness). This is where the discussion will divert into my personal views on the nature of
existence. I'm not sure that would be fun for everyone still reading, but if you want to know more about that you can ask.

Lets step back even further with the laws of physics. At the core of all matter is a strict relationship on how matter works and interacts. Just
because man did not have the idea of gravity, it did not stop apples falling on heads. We may just call this some abstraction and write it off, maybe
we can better define what it is that keeps us together.

edit on 16-1-2012 by kwakakev because: added ", it"

The real law is
more like a law of physics than it is a rule. When one is ready to be free of the world of rules, one enters the world of consequences. The Buddhists
have it right in their assessment of moral and immoral behavior. They call it "living skillfully" and "living unskillfully". Doing right becomes
more internally-motivated when you understand the Law. It also becomes immeasurably more rewarding.

It is my fairly firm belief that humanity is approaching a brick wall for those who wish to remain irresponsible, i.e. living under the protection of
man, rather than the protection of the Creator/Universal Mind/whatever you like to call it. Go ahead, take a chance! The universe is a friendly place!
Me, however, I'm an as---le.

well if there is no Wal-Mart, where di I go do my food shopping at today?
If there is no USA, is my birth certificate incorrect, and where the hell have I been living my 42 years???
This is just another fail thread

Originally posted by SeeingBlue
Looks like half this thread missed the point from the very beginning. This site makes me sad at all the close minded idiots that can't see the
truth.

Hey, if it weren't for the downers, the uppers wouldn't be so great! Don't let it get you down, bro. All is exactly as it should be. When
we die, we join the party together with them, and we all have a drink and a laugh together, remember?

They are all concepts which we have been duped into supporting & eventually depending upon, with no real concern for, or responsibility to you or your
neighbors.

YES! Responsibility, that's where it's at!

Limited liability is irresponsibility!
Limited liability is irresponsibility!
Limited liability is irresponsibility!
(keep saying that to yourselves till it sinks in [no I don't mean literally]... it may take a while. It took me months.)

That reminds me... it would be an appropriate time to include my dear friend's video series on the Law and the Holy Grail... (if you follow the link
it takes you to a playlist where you can see all 8)

Originally posted by HomerinNC
well if there is no Wal-Mart, where di I go do my food shopping at today?
If there is no USA, is my birth certificate incorrect, and where the hell have I been living my 42 years???
This is just another fail thread

edit on 1/16/2012 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

How can you not love this guy? It was just about to get boring, and Homer comes along at precisely the right time to illustrate my point about
consciousness. Or, maybe he just DIDN'T READ THE OP! Just kidding. But seriously, I thought I made it abundantly clear that I wasn't talking about
buildings and colored paper. Didn't I?

Originally posted by Okandetre
The assets say of Wal-Mart, in your examples would be buildings owned, or rented

"buildings" do not exist. they are simply clouds of spheres of energy (that which we call atoms) organized into a specific pattern on the macro
scale, that has a purpose to someone's will... We associate the pattern of organized atoms with a specific name... ie: "building".. it is as much
an illusory farce as is the "corporation". and.. it's mostly empty space... (space between subatomic particles)...

there is no "spoon".

you're both wrong\right simultaneously and this banter has entertained me this evening.

Originally posted by Okandetre
The assets say of Wal-Mart, in your examples would be buildings owned, or rented

"buildings" do not exist. they are simply clouds of spheres of energy (that which we call atoms) organized into a specific pattern on the macro
scale, that has a purpose to someone's will... We associate the pattern of organized atoms with a specific name... ie: "building".. it is as much an
illusory farce as is the "corporation". and.. it's mostly empty space... (space between subatomic particles)...

there is no "spoon".

you're both wrongright simultaneously and this banter has entertained me this evening.

Are you sure monetary systems are not what you are talking about instead of corporations and governments? Both are of course tied to money, but you
may be missing the root of your concern.

A business is simply an organization with some means to make a profit, of course.

Governments are also necessary, despite the fact many people have a negative opinion of them. Without a government, we would be no more than a
chimpanzee. In fact, chimps have systems of hierarchy, etc you could consider a primitive government.

I think monetary systems might actually be what you are talking about. That is what defends people, their money. That is what they use to keep
themselves rich and others poor. That is what makes one person "better" than another.

It was supposed to be a bartering and accountability system. Now it's just paper people use to enslave others for their livelihoods. Ironically, the
value that our money (in the US) is supposed to be based doesn't exist anymore.

Electrons could also say not to exist. They have no mass or volume as they are simply point forces. The same is true for corporations or
governments. There is no real physical entity, but they exert a force and have repercussions in the real world. They create cause and effect,
therefore in that sense they do exist.

This is an interesting debate and could so easily go off on so many different tangents, but lets get back on topic.

Let me clarify: the "set of rules that establish the norms" are purely the invention of man. "The norm" is the invention of man.

While the decisions and actions of man is important to the realization of culture, just as important is the environment to provide the options,
challenges and resources for man to operate in. One problem with comprehending the corporate entity is that there is no single point of contact. The
trademark logo would be the most encapsulating with its branding power, but even still it offers little to the overall organization and operation.

When you think the government is 'getting physical', it is actually thugs who have been duped, just as you have, into thinking that the government has
a will of its own and that it would be good for them to obey that will, who are getting physical.

While you have presented a great case, this is part of the problem. The thugs along with everyone else involved are just doing their jobs. With the
clear majority condemnation of Bradley Manning in congress it sent a very clear message down the chain of command and through all the people
associated to this case. The corporate entity is a very well organized one with a lot of specialized roles and capability.

One way to look at this, life in the sea started as single cell organisms. After a while some of these organisms found out they work a lot better,
stronger and more chance to survive if they started working together. This lead the rise to the multicell organisms who kicked butt over the single
cell forms of life. The same is happening in the world of business and government as more people are joining in on these entities to help create
larger, stronger and more capable operations.

So what is this force that contains multicell forms of life? If you just want one word to define what is at the core of the corporate entity, then I
would say culture.

edit on 21-1-2012 by kwakakev because: changed "businesses" to "operations"

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