It was very exciting times! I dunno if you remember the IRC chat room that Shadowmite hosted--they were trying to dump the rom and first shots (even with the tester # branded) were given out...ahh..that was fun.

I think Merlyn is still a bit bitter as he never was reimbursed by Palm after being very cooperative with them on the matter.

Part of it is this: if a website shares a copyrighted name e.g. "Palm" "Sprint" "Treo", those companies have more sway over leaked copyrighted content & info ;-) Sometimes they flex that muscle, other times they don't.

I have not seen any post in recent months from Meryln!! Where are you Sir?

well palm needs to make sure no info leaks out because they only have one device which will be gsm and cdma for the market for the year. depending upon one product makes palm a weak company

Not totally true...they'll have presumably 3: "Druker" for GSM; 800w for CDMA and everyone always forgets about poor "Wanda" At this point, we also don't know how similar/dissimilar the 800w & Drucker will be. (Centro is also breathing new life into Palm).

Personally, I think "Wanda" looks pretty snazzy too. It'd be nice to see them release a quad-band one for the States.

I guess I should also throw it out there that since Palm is so secretive, who knows what they have--though I admit I'm not exactly expecting any other devices.

Not totally true...they'll have presumably 3: "Druker" for GSM; 800w for CDMA and everyone always forgets about poor "Wanda" At this point, we also don't know how similar/dissimilar the 800w & Drucker will be. (Centro is also breathing new life into Palm).

Personally, I think "Wanda" looks pretty snazzy too. It'd be nice to see them release a quad-band one for the States.

I guess I should also throw it out there that since Palm is so secretive, who knows what they have--though I admit I'm not exactly expecting any other devices.

the wanda looks ok, but why buy that??? it is tri band, it looks just like the centro, it has a 2mp cam, no fm radio. no reason to buy. also like i think the cdma version will not be too different from the gsm variant. palm can not handle that many different sku's in their arsenal.

Naveen

Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

Next Phone:
Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.

the wanda looks ok, but why buy that??? it is tri band, it looks just like the centro, it has a 2mp cam, no fm radio. no reason to buy. also like i think the cdma version will not be too different from the gsm variant. palm can not handle that many different sku's in their arsenal.

I guess the target market is Europe and Asia. By looking at the picture, the thickness of this device is similar to HTC touch.

the wanda looks ok, but why buy that??? it is tri band, it looks just like the centro, it has a 2mp cam, no fm radio. no reason to buy. also like i think the cdma version will not be too different from the gsm variant. palm can not handle that many different sku's in their arsenal.

What is FM radio?

Why buy? Well--I'd prefer an 800w but this appears to be a nice sleek smartphone.

3g

GPS

WM 6.1

Thin and slick looking

As far as "it looks just like the Centro", I happen to think the Centro is one of the better smartphones around right now and think it's great. In fact adding WM to Centro is a brilliant idea.

On the one hand you say Palm's is weak and depends on only one product. Okay. But then you suggest that they can't even handle adding the few new products posted. Admit it Naveen. You like many others are just totally disenchanted with Palm. You feel they're so far gone, that they'll never recover. New products - ha! Unless you see it, you won't believe it. That's understandable Naveen. We do understand. We really do.

On the one hand you say Palm's is weak and depends on only one product. Okay. But then you suggest that they can't even handle adding the few new products posted. Admit it Naveen. You like many others are just totally disenchanted with Palm. You feel they're so far gone, that they'll never recover. New products - ha! Unless you see it, you won't believe it. That's understandable Naveen. We do understand. We really do.

wow... ...you actually hit the nail on the head! i am, like the majority here, are disenchanted. palm is the company that made the pda/phone business what it is today. today palm is an also ran company literally slipping away before our eyes. palm keeps on coming up with a product that will be a relevant if they release it within a couple of months, but by the time it gets out it is outdated. When the product does make it out also, it is the one product that they stand behind and it is the cdma/gsm variant or there is a palm/wm variant. if samsung/htc/even velocity drop product, it is a mulitiude of lines. palm just wants us to follow blindly because they created this market.
i love this thread because people have come up with the idea that palm is holding up a product release because they need to get 6.1 stable??? F-that, i had 6.1, by a chef at xda, almost two months ago and it is running stable. Last time I checked Palm had more than one person working on the OS issues unlike xda. my two cents why either palm needs to fix itself soon, or go in the back and shoot it self in the head so I do not have to back to check on new news!

Naveen

Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

Next Phone:
Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.

You had a pre-release, feature incomplete beta version. Currently and officially there are no WM 6.1 devices on the market and won't be till at least June at the earliest.

As far as you "being in the majority" that is an assumption of TC (which is unrepresentitve of the market). I'm not sure most regular folk bother to take the time to judge cell phone makers as there tend to be real problems and concerns in the world ;-)

Plus it begs the question: why waste the energy? Just buy a new cell phone when you want it--no need to rationalize or justify that decision here.

You had a pre-release, feature incomplete beta version. Currently and officially there are no WM 6.1 devices on the market and won't be till at least June at the earliest.

As far as you "being in the majority" that is an assumption of TC (which is unrepresentitve of the market). I'm not sure most regular folk bother to take the time to judge cell phone makers as there tend to be real problems and concerns in the world ;-)

Plus it begs the question: why waste the energy? Just buy a new cell phone when you want it--no need to rationalize or justify that decision here.

did palm have that same pre-release? or is palm not in line to test out 6.1 for their new devices??? on to your second point, you think i am assuming that tc is not disappointed with palm, think about that one more time, there is a reason you keep on defending them on a everyday basis and no one else is really standing by your side. lastly, the regular folk, have made it clear to palm that they are upset with their progress. have your heard of blackberry, htc, apple, se, and eten---why do their sales keep on going up and palm is going the other way?

did palm have that same pre-release? or is palm not in line to test out 6.1 for their new devices???

Yes, Palm like all the other OEM gets regular new builds of WM 6.1 as bugs are identified and features are added.

The build of WM 6.1 you have is not the final one and hence not official, may be missing functionality, unstable on some devices and not optimized.

This isn't difficult to understand. Furthermore, it is irrelevant. There are no phones officially released with 6.1 so to suggest that somehow Palm is inept and yet you pass all the other OEMs is disingenuous.

Originally Posted by Thunder God

on to your second point, you think i am assuming that tc is not disappointed with palm, think about that one more time, there is a reason you keep on defending them on a everyday basis and no one else is really standing by your side.

For one, that is not true and quite trivial for you to point out as well as unquantifiable.

It's equivalent to me saying 4 of my friends think Bush is a great president so obviously the majority of Americans agree.

As pointed out in the Centro thread today, for the first time that sub-forum had more viewers than the 650 sub-forum--so Centro is doing very well and some people appear to happy.. Yes, some are disappointed. But there a lot of TC members who do not post regularly or have an opinion.

Being this concerned and involved with your phone is the minority position. Posting on forums and debating cell phone companies is a minority position.

Go to work and ask how many of them spend time posting in a forum discussing an unreleased cell phone and see how they look at you. Or mention how you like to flash your phone's rom for fun when at a bar and see what happens.

Originally Posted by Thunder God

lastly, the regular folk, have made it clear to palm that they are upset with their progress. have your heard of blackberry, htc, apple, se, and eten---why do their sales keep on going up and palm is going the other way?

Palm's sales did go up last quarter. In fact they have gone up every quarter consistently. With Centro, sales are exploding for them and they are not sure if supply can keep up with demand as pointed out in their latest investor conference call.

Either way, competition is a good thing and should be welcomed. I wonder if people had the same debate when other cars besides Fords came onto the market? I'm glad these companies are there and I'm glad they are doing well as it means cheaper phones for users, more features, more innovation, etc.

Only a fool would suggest otherwise and prefer that it was only Palm out there.

Being this concerned and involved with your phone is the minority position. Posting on forums and debating cell phone companies is a minority position.

Go to work and ask how many of them spend time posting in a forum discussing an unreleased cell phone and see how they look at you. Or mention how you like to flash your phone's rom for fun when at a bar and see what happens

Ha! That's funny. My wife thinks I'm insane for the amount of time I spend on this site.

Yes, Palm like all the other OEM gets regular new builds of WM 6.1 as bugs are identified and features are added.

The build of WM 6.1 you have is not the final one and hence not official, may be missing functionality, unstable on some devices and not optimized.

This isn't difficult to understand. Furthermore, it is irrelevant. There are no phones officially released with 6.1 so to suggest that somehow Palm is inept and yet you pass all the other OEMs is disingenuous.

For one, that is not true and quite trivial for you to point out as well as unquantifiable.

It's equivalent to me saying 4 of my friends think Bush is a great president so obviously the majority of Americans agree.

As pointed out in the Centro thread today, for the first time that sub-forum had more viewers than the 650 sub-forum--so Centro is doing very well and some people appear to happy.. Yes, some are disappointed. But there a lot of TC members who do not post regularly or have an opinion.

Being this concerned and involved with your phone is the minority position. Posting on forums and debating cell phone companies is a minority position.

Go to work and ask how many of them spend time posting in a forum discussing an unreleased cell phone and see how they look at you. Or mention how you like to flash your phone's rom for fun when at a bar and see what happens.

Palm's sales did go up last quarter. In fact they have gone up every quarter consistently. With Centro, sales are exploding for them and they are not sure if supply can keep up with demand as pointed out in their latest investor conference call.

Either way, competition is a good thing and should be welcomed. I wonder if people had the same debate when other cars besides Fords came onto the market? I'm glad these companies are there and I'm glad they are doing well as it means cheaper phones for users, more features, more innovation, etc.

Only a fool would suggest otherwise and prefer that it was only Palm out there.

funny, there are many devices coming out in the next couple of months that will have 6.1 running on them. odd, maybe those companies are using a different version of wm os than the one which was issued to palm. also, the os, even if it is a beta version, is running pretty stable. i wonder how a person who does not even work for a large company can get 6.1 to run stable but palm in your eyes is still working out the kinks.

you said that i am supposedly in the minority in my opinion, and this is one of the few sites you surf, how many people share your opinion and how many share my opinion??? are you working for palm? being paid by them? or are you blind to the fact palm keeps on handing us products that are inferior to the competition. i just dont believe how you talk in these strange riddles about palm when the facts are out there that palm is getting weaker by the day. you did not comment on the growing market share of htc, apple, eten, and others that came after palm and are now dancing around palm.
your statement that i go to clubs and talk about my roms is completely stupid! where did that come from? i think you were talking about yourself. lastly, if the centro is selling so well, why did palm lose money last quarter? a record amount if i remember correctly.

Naveen

Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

Next Phone:
Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.

funny, there are many devices coming out in the next couple of months that will have 6.1 running on them. odd, maybe those companies are using a different version of wm os than the one which was issued to palm. also, the os, even if it is a beta version, is running pretty stable. i wonder how a person who does not even work for a large company can get 6.1 to run stable but palm in your eyes is still working out the kinks.

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Why are those other devices not out yet with WM 6.1? Where are the Sprint upgrades to the 6800 and Touch for WM 6.1?

I'm not sure how this is controversial or what even you are trying to say. WM 6.1 is not officially out, it is not on any devices. Palm is scheduled to release the 800w "by end of summer" which is when everyone else's WM 6.1 devices and/or updates are coming out. So how are they not on the same deadline?

Just because you use a leaked beta build means nothing.

If you are running WM 6.1, look under the OS info and tell me the build number and compare it to the ones that come out in a few months officially--they won't match (e.g. WM6.1 AKU 1.0.2 Build 19209). It's the same with Windows XP SP3 which I've been running since December but it won't be out till April officially. Same concept.

Originally Posted by Thunder God

are you working for palm? being paid by them? or are you blind to the fact palm keeps on handing us products that are inferior to the competition. i just dont believe how you talk in these strange riddles about palm when the facts are out there that palm is getting weaker by the day.

Nope, just a grad student. I'm too poor to own stocks and don't work for any tele-com. Did I ever say Palm was in great financial shape? They they are doing better than everyone? That their devices trump everything out there? If so, please link to it.

You confuse these words: "defend" and "explain"

This thread was started by a user who asked: Is Windows Mobile 6.1 the hold up?

The answer is yes, since we know it will have WM 6.1 and WM 6.1 did not exist a few months ago (though has been in testing since at least November 2007).

I even said in this very thread:

Originally Posted by Malatesta

Palm could have presumably released the device much earlier with WM 6.0 but for whatever reason went for 6.1. Without judging that decision on their part, that is the current situation.

How is that defending them vs. me just explaining to the OP and others the facts on the ground? Please explain.

Originally Posted by Thunder God

you did not comment on the growing market share of htc, apple, eten, and others that came after palm and are now dancing around palm.

Why would I? We weren't discussing market share.

Originally Posted by Thunder God

have your heard of blackberry, htc, apple, se, and eten---why do their sales keep on going up and palm is going the other way?

What you said is false and I corrected you. Palm's sales are going up not down as you state.

Now you switched to "market share". Much different term, so I suggest you use the correct language when discussing a topic such as this and not blaming me for calling you wrong.

Of course Palm lost market share--once again, not controversial. In fact, as more competitors enter the market, this is what naturally happens. Take for instance the juggernaut Nokia, they have dropped 20% to 7% in market share in 2 years in the U.S.

Lets also get something straight: I like Palm and their devices. I've been happy with the 650, 700wx and Centro. I've also enjoyed my Moto Q greatly and the 6700 was great at the time too. What's your point?

Originally Posted by Thunder God

your statement that i go to clubs and talk about my roms is completely stupid! where did that come from? i think you were talking about yourself.

I meant it metaphorically as a thought experiment, not a personal attack.

Users at TC overtly displayed their disdain for the Centro last fall, proclaiming it would finish Palm and they have no idea what they are doing. Yet the exact opposite happened.

The point is, users on mobile forums are not the majority and do not necessarialy know what the market wants. We are the power-users and niche, which is why companies often don't bow down to everything we say or think here.

Originally Posted by Thunder God

lastly, if the centro is selling so well, why did palm lose money last quarter? a record amount if i remember correctly.

Centro’s success last quarter did not offset the continued declines in our traditional handheld business and the fact that our Windows Mobile product line is aging. The combination of these factors and a mix shift toward lower margin Centros resulted in revenue of $312 million and a loss of $0.16 a share. As we continue to increase Centro volume and rebuild our product line at the high end, we expect to see a shift back to higher margins and a return to sustained profitability.

Seems pretty accurate to me. Can they rebound? Who knows.

Finally, why are you steering this thread to being about ME and my opinions? You can either ignore my posts or PM me if you have a problem, otherwise I don't see what any of these last few posts have to do with anything.

What you said is false and I corrected you. Palm's sales are going up not down as you state.

Now you switched to "market share". Much different term, so I suggest you use the correct language when discussing a topic such as this and not blaming me for calling you wrong.

You are twisting what was said... it was a rather good twist as well... I enjoyed the read.

Of course Palm lost market share--once again, not controversial. In fact, as more competitors enter the market, this is what naturally happens. Take for instance the juggernaut Nokia, they have dropped 20% to 7% in market share in 2 years in the U.S.

Not the same thing... not even close.... palm and nokia lost market share for two totally different reasons. lol

Users at TC overtly displayed their disdain for the Centro last fall, proclaiming it would finish Palm and they have no idea what they are doing. Yet the exact opposite happened.

What people said is mostly coming true... cheaper devices will = less net income. That has happened. Although, I guess there was another argument against building a small device or something... so you might be right there... well, a bunch of arguments anyone could build from.

Personally, I don't think it matters... palm is in a world of hurt and there is no amount of arguments or debates that can change that fact. Yea, palm sucks right now.

But I do think that all of us "stragglers" either like the underdog or we love palm or maybe we are sad individuals with mental issues. I don't know... I might have a touch of all three....

@ theog,
you kind of summed up what i want to say. i still have a soft spot for palm, what is upsetting is that palm does not care about the end users as much as they did. products that coming either are missing a feature(s) when released or is outdated by the time it reaches our hands. how long can palm sit and idle, not long it seems in their current financial situation.

Naveen

Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

Next Phone:
Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.

@ theog,
you kind of summed up what i want to say. i still have a soft spot for palm, what is upsetting is that palm does not care about the end users as much as they did. products that coming either are missing a feature(s) when released or is outdated by the time it reaches our hands. how long can palm sit and idle, not long it seems in their current financial situation.

I spoke out against palm's management before it was even popular (back in what maybe '02)...

Hate to say it, but the problem they have right now is going to take years for them to fix, if ever. Palm has not done **** since they launched the palm v. lol. They purchased the treo line... made some slider thing... and kept OS 5 around for 100 years... failed at a new OS. Oh, they did make it so you would not lose data if the battery drained. That was innovation!

They then broke up the company and then tried to buy it back and ended up with a name or something.. dropping "one" or something like that... whatever....

Palm was going through the motions of a company wanting to die. But that is what happens when you start to hire a bunch of MBAs who don't know their head from a whole in the ground (sorry Malatesta) instead of hiring people who can do "real work."

It is going to be interesting to see if Palm can dig themselves out of this hole. It took years to climb into it and it is going to take years to climb back out.

Of course, execution is critical... they must hit on all cylinders and have flawless launches of all new products and sound updates. As I've noted before, even if they finish the new os late this year, we won't see it before at least Apr 09, unless there is some sort of miracle from God.

More importantly, google's OS will be out... if it is as slick as it looks in beta, it is going to be a killer... funny enough, that might be the thing to kill palm, even if palm were to execute perfectly... google, like MS during the Browser wars, can take a loss on mobile tech in order to get phones out for people to search... get it?

MS/blackberry business.... google/iphone consumer.... although, MS will make a harder run for consumers as well and I'm sure google will make a run at business users considering their gmail/docs property (IMAP/sync calendar, etc, etc.). I see google building a very *nasty* company, if they don't stretch themselves too thin... and if everything goes as planned. Heck, grandcentral.com is an excellent property as well....

Google gets outlook sync down and builds a phone that looks like a palm, I can see palm sinking further into oblivion... palm is turning into a one-trick pony*... know what they say about that... especially when your competitors have so much depth... and there is a larger war going on and you are simply being caught in the crossfire... people don't even notice you....

* Or maybe always have been, but it is finally catching up to them due to the market?