he prob. spent the whole night previous at the casino getting smashed & loosing more of his money.. hence why he had nothing constructive to say.. instead he fumbled all his words didnt even mention anything raptor related...he couldnt even count how many teams he thinks are ahead of us in the division & they call that a team preview..what a joke!!

we have a tough division this year but i think we finish ahead of 76ers...

Guys, bashing Barkley for not knowing about basketball is just plain dumb. The dude has more basketball IQ in his foreskin than all message board posters in the world combined.

I understand he's go an..um.. unique delivery. I understand he's not vigorously reviewing stats and working sources behind the scenes, but the guy knows his shit. He knows what it takes to win in the NBA. He can quickly assess a basketball related situation and determine a valid point of view based on his own unique perspective.

Chuck is spot on - we don't have the horses to compete in the deepest division in the NBA. His indifference towards the Raps is not something exclusive to him or to the Raps. It's what national media members do to perennial lottery teams. If you are dismissing his point of view because you don't think he's qualified to speak on the subject, then you are kidding yourself.

What I do agree with is that our spot of last in the division is not a foregone conclusion. However likely it may seem, injuries happen, relationships implode and guys exceed expectations all over the league. Like everyone else here, I'm hoping for a better result than a 5th straight lottery and the Atlantic division cellar. But at the same time, the only realistic response to Chuck here is that he's correct and we've got work to do to prove him wrong.

Charles is one funny guy and is known to say some ridiculous things, but I'm just curious which team you guys thought wasn't going to finish ahead of the Raptors in our division?

We're going to be last in our division whether Charles thinks so or not.

As a few others have said, I think it's fair to pick the Raptors to finish 5th in their division, to start the season. What irks me about guys like Barkley, is that they seem to do so based on their indepth knowledge of the other - American - teams, and then get to 5th place and go "oh ya, and I guess the Raptors will finish last". I don't care where the Raps are picked to finish, as long as the reporter respects us (organization and its fans) enough to properly evaluate and analyze the Raptors.

Personally, I think Boston is still the team to beat in our division. After that, I could see any of the other four teams finishing anywhere from 2nd to 5th, given the roster turnover/uncertainty with each team, for a variety of reasons.

I think my main problem with the preview was Barkley kept referring to the Rap's historical state rather than considering the current roster, hence the topic "preview of the Raptors 2012-13 season". I think it is highly unfair to bring up how crappy were the past raptors team when clearly this year, its an almost entirely different roster.

On paper, the Raps are younger, talented, filled in almost all positions and has a coach and system that has been proven to work.

On paper, Celtics are old, Knicks have chemistry issues, Nets have no defense and Philly has an injury prone center and no scorer.

Of course its an entirely different scenario when they step on the court, but this is what previews are for. You judge teams by what they are on paper.

At the moment, this is how i rank the Atlantic - Celtics, Nets, Knicks, Raptors, Sixers

I think my main problem with the preview was Barkley kept referring to the Rap's historical state rather than considering the current roster, hence the topic "preview of the Raptors 2012-13 season". I think it is highly unfair to bring up how crappy were the past raptors team when clearly this year, its an almost entirely different roster.

On paper, the Raps are younger, talented, filled in almost all positions and has a coach and system that has been proven to work.

On paper, Celtics are old, Knicks have chemistry issues, Nets have no defense and Philly has an injury prone center and no scorer.

Of course its an entirely different scenario when they step on the court, but this is what previews are for. You judge teams by what they are on paper.

At the moment, this is how i rank the Atlantic - Celtics, Nets, Knicks, Raptors, Sixers

This is my issue when debating a lot of people with the opposite view of my own. I think it is fairly safe to say and fairly well known I land on the optimistic side of the equation.

One of the arguments, and I paraphrase, is the Raps have always been bad and/or Colangelo has made mistakes and that is what we can expect in the future. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The Raps have been awful far more often than good in the history of the franchise but what does that have to do with where they currently are situated?

TheGlove: I love how you stated that the on paper the Knicks have chemistry issues and I didn't even bat an eyelash.

... Ladies and gentlemen, your 2012 New York Knicks!

They did have chemistry issues last season, didnt they? And their roster is pretty much the same as last year with the exemption obviously of Felton and Kidd, right? So it would be fair to assume that they can possibly have the same issues as last year, correct?

They did have chemistry issues last season, didnt they? And their roster is pretty much the same as last year with the exemption obviously of Felton and Kidd, right? So it would be fair to assume that they can possibly have the same issues as last year, correct?

I fail to see your point.

My point is that I agree with you, they have chemistry issues. But when you say "on paper", doesn't that take all talk of intangibles out of the equation? You wording implied that the Knicks have chemistry issues on paper. Even though this is impossible, I passed over the comment without thinking twice, thus reinforcing just how dysfunctional the Knicks have been since before Zeke.

My point is that I agree with you, they have chemistry issues. But when you say "on paper", doesn't that take all talk of intangibles out of the equation? You wording implied that the Knicks have chemistry issues on paper. Even though this is impossible, I passed over the comment without thinking twice, thus reinforcing just how dysfunctional the Knicks have been since before Zeke.

hahaha got yah. I did think about it before posting it, if you do take the phrase "on paper" literally, then that does put in question how "chemistry" can be attributed. but what i was gunning for when i said "on paper" was what are the thing "to be considered" -

on paper - "if something seems good or true on paper, it seems to be good or true when you read or think about it but it might not be good or true in a real situation"

Guys, bashing Barkley for not knowing about basketball is just plain dumb. The dude has more basketball IQ in his foreskin than all message board posters in the world combined.

I understand he's go an..um.. unique delivery. I understand he's not vigorously reviewing stats and working sources behind the scenes, but the guy knows his shit. He knows what it takes to win in the NBA. He can quickly assess a basketball related situation and determine a valid point of view based on his own unique perspective.

Chuck is spot on - we don't have the horses to compete in the deepest division in the NBA. His indifference towards the Raps is not something exclusive to him or to the Raps. It's what national media members do to perennial lottery teams. If you are dismissing his point of view because you don't think he's qualified to speak on the subject, then you are kidding yourself.

What I do agree with is that our spot of last in the division is not a foregone conclusion. However likely it may seem, injuries happen, relationships implode and guys exceed expectations all over the league. Like everyone else here, I'm hoping for a better result than a 5th straight lottery and the Atlantic division cellar. But at the same time, the only realistic response to Chuck here is that he's correct and we've got work to do to prove him wrong.

We aren't talking about basketball iq. We're talking about his iq in general which is probably lower than the temperature in Toronto in the middle of winter.

We aren't talking about basketball iq. We're talking about his iq in general which is probably lower than the temperature in Toronto in the middle of winter.

lol,,, I don't think he's near as dumb as he comes across on TV, where he gets paid good $ to be a bit of a buffoon. I met him in an airport last fall, and had the good fortune to stumble into him when he had a few minutes to chat up a fan. Don't be fooled by his speech impediment either. He's not near as dumb as he sounds on TNT, but he probably spends less time than any of us analyzing NBA teams, and more time on charity golf tournaments, where he's also in demand to play the big clown.

lol,,, I don't think he's near as dumb as he comes across on TV, where he gets paid good $ to be a bit of a buffoon. I met him in an airport last fall, and had the good fortune to stumble into him when he had a few minutes to chat up a fan. Don't be fooled by his speech impediment either. He's not near as dumb as he sounds on TNT, but he probably spends less time than any of us analyzing NBA teams, and more time on charity golf tournaments, where he's also in demand to play the big clown.

Barkley is paid to be an entertainer who also happens to be a former basketball player. He has given Toronto credit in the past about being an up and coming team (2011 slam dunk). I guess he feels the moves and growth are not enough given the rest of the Atlantic division's growth.

This is my issue when debating a lot of people with the opposite view of my own. I think it is fairly safe to say and fairly well known I land on the optimistic side of the equation.

One of the arguments, and I paraphrase, is the Raps have always been bad and/or Colangelo has made mistakes and that is what we can expect in the future. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The Raps have been awful far more often than good in the history of the franchise but what does that have to do with where they currently are situated?

Is that not the way trending and projections work? If I'm way off base please tell me, but your projection for Kyle Lowry becoming a star player for this team -- is that not based on his previous track record as a defensive guy and his brief success as a starter in Houston? Are projections not based on what a person has done in the past? If not then what do you base it on -- gut feeling?

This also reminds me of a person trying to shake a bad habit, who says 'from now on, I'll stop doing this', and then an hour later they catch themselves doing it and they say 'starting.. now!', and then they do it again and they say 'seriously though, starting NOW!'.

At what point do you look at Colangelo's history and say 'from this point on, he has been doing really good work'.

Because the way I see it things were beginning to look good again with the hiring of Casey. That was his "starting...now!" moment for maybe the 11th time overall. They went after a defensive guy who had just come off building this awesome defense for the Mavs who had just won a championship. Even JV, despite my reservations was at least in line with the new team building philosophy. They came off a year where their defense was much better than average. They had managed to mold the team in such a way that the culture had changed, not necessarily by winning but by being able to preach defense and the players buying into it. They were building from the ground up, harvesting young talent and adding key veteran leadership in reserve roles in order to ensure young players were learning and growing.

Then, they went after Steve Nash which had nothing to do with any of the above. A complete 180 degree turn back to the old ways. A quick fix. Defense.. nah, let's get Steve Nash. Youth? Humbug! Get me Wayne Gretzky on the line! We'll sellout all our games! Then came the Landry Fields accident and subsequently getting Kyle Lowry. This is the "seriously though.. starting NOW!" moment for those in the forgiving mood.

And nothing has really transpired since then for me to think that he has turned over a new leaf. Basically all he's done since the latest pressing of the Reset button is sign Kyle Lowry, and that only happened because thankfully the Lakers jumped in and saved the day.

What irks me about guys like Barkley, is that they seem to do so based on their indepth knowledge of the other - American - teams, and then get to 5th place and go "oh ya, and I guess the Raptors will finish last". I don't care where the Raps are picked to finish, as long as the reporter respects us (organization and its fans) enough to properly evaluate and analyze the Raptors.

Personally, I think Boston is still the team to beat in our division. After that, I could see any of the other four teams finishing anywhere from 2nd to 5th, given the roster turnover/uncertainty with each team, for a variety of reasons.

When you're doing a show about where you think teams will end up, you don't tend to spend a lot of time talking about the team you think will finish last.