This is probably the first semi-positive thing I've heard in relation to the Wonder Woman casting.

That being said, I have no confidence in this project. It seems like DC doesn't even like DC right now. Bob even points out that they don't seem to have any sort of plan. It's like they have a dart board with "Ideas" on it, and just throwing darts to see what sticks.

In comparison, Marvel seems to have some basic outline all the way up to Avengers 3.

Which franchise do you have more confidence in?

As far as the casting, I can't say that I have any strong opinions on her one way or the other. But I can say that I am disappointed as this makes the Superman movie seem bloated and seems to be trying to take attention off Superman. And even off Batman. I could see ways this could work, but announcing that they cast Wonder Woman makes me fear those possible moves are now impossible. They'll want to make something of the character which I think would be a disservice to her and the stars of this film.

Now, if they made this movie focus on Superman, but gave us a minor cameo of Bruce Wayne and Diana Prince in the film, that would work. Building up to the eventual Justice League movie and giving us a Wonder Woman movie and maybe a new Batman movie.

Or they could really blow our minds, and make Batman a sort of Nick Fury character. It would establish him as the brains of the team to have him working to bring together the League as there is a threat looming that they can't face alone, and he knows only a team could beat. And then, they could give us a Flash movie, too. Maybe a Martian Manhunter movie. And bring them all together in a Justice League movie combating the threat that Batman detected (without ever having a Batman movie).

They are not nearly competent enough to even consider that idea. This movie is going to be exactly what it looks like: a gigantic clusterfuck of epic proportions as they try to cram four movies worth of characters and ideas into one movie and fuck it all up.

I don't know whats changed in the New 52 version of WW, but the Thor movies prove that audiences do have some tolerance for 'Comics are Weird'ness. And ancient greek super warriors are popular as ever.

I think a WW solo movie could work. I mean, the act one pitch is; an air force audience insert dude crashes on a magical island inhabited by hot warrior babes.... That sells itself.

I just wish they had used Ryan Reynolds to make a goofy Flash movie instead of that Green Lantern wreck. Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Flash would be a great justice league crew.

But my crazy fan theory is that 'Superman vs Batman' is going to turn out to be 'The Justice League'.

JayDig:I don't know whats changed in the New 52 version of WW, but the Thor movies prove that audiences do have some tolerance for 'Comics are Weird'ness. And ancient greek super warriors are popular as ever.

I think a WW solo movie could work. I mean, the act one pitch is; an air force audience insert dude crashes on a magical island inhabited by hot warrior babes.... That sells itself.

I just wish they had used Ryan Reynolds to make a goofy Flash movie instead of that Green Lantern wreck. Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman and Flash would be a great justice league crew.

But my crazy fan theory is that 'Superman vs Batman' is going to turn out to be 'The Justice League'.

I must say I would have very much preferred a solo movie as well. Again I think you're also right to note that Ryan Reynolds talents were wasted in that train-wreck called The Green Lantern. My god would he have been a better Flash than anything else.

OT: In regards to the origins, is it possible that the Amazons are descended from the Kryptonian survivor (Kara Zor-El aka Supergirl) 20,000 years ago? I vaguely remember some digital comic-wha-wha about an ancient Supergirl on a primitive Earth. Maybe she's the one who started the Amazonian traditions and ergo Wonder Woman is a distant relative and Kryptonian-Human hybrid.

TheRightToArmBears:People seem to be forgetting that actors do actually train for roles. I mean, Tom Hardy as Bane? Edward Norton in American History X? Whilst I'd be surprised if she does as much as the nerdrage demands, I definitely wouldn't take how she looks in F&F as much to go by.

If that sort of thing is expected of an actor generally that history will be there. Look at previous roles Hardy did like Bronson or Warrior.

Gina Carano. I dig why Bob went with the mental shorthand but she's got a name. More to the point, she's got the look for Wonder Woman, and the training. I can't figure why they went with Twiggy, for all the reasons already mentioned but eh. More power to her if she pulls it off, I suppose.

Same reason DC made Amanda Waller thin in New 52 despite all her previous incarnations showing her as heavyset and why they think Wonder Woman is too complicated to give her own movie: They think only one body type can exist.

Women have to be thin and busty without too much muscle or they'll look too masculine and it'll turn away the 14-year-old boys they think are the only audience that see their movies or read their comics.

mjharper:It would be such a shame if they streamlined Wonder Woman's origin after the New 52 reboot spent so much time giving her not only a different birth, but also a story so much more steeped in Greek mythology than before.

Yes, this is actually the one time I didn't mind the changes made by the reboot. Making WW a demigoddess seems much more in-line with Greek mythology and I think it would be easier to translate to film as well.

Is it really that complicated to just say "Her mother fashioned her from clay made from the magical soil of Themiscyra and she was given life and powers from the Greek pantheon"? I mean her new origin is Wonder-Girl's origin. They just transplanted it to Diana.

i have heard mention that they have also revealed The Flash will be being cast

with that and the inclusion of Wonder Woman my take on this is that Man of Steel takes place in a universe in which The Justice League already exists and he's a late (and somewhat ignorant) arrival to the party so to speak.

if that's the case the seemingly uncaring destruction of Metropolis and the killing of his enemy as shown in Man of Steel that did not sit well with many fans may well have been entirely deliberate...

:O

the basic plot of the new film could well be akin to:

the "proto" Justice League turns up in the wake of the last films events.

Superman is largely ignorant of them because "secrecy","coddling by the Kents" and/or "he's a country boy" and/or his time "avoiding the world" in the first movie.

"hey, you really should have kept a lid on some of that shit dude"

"why should i listen to you ?"

"because...I'm The Goddamn Batman!" <---i half expect this line to actually be said on screen btw"..and if you're not prepared to you're a threat to all we hold dear"

"i have enough daddy issues and you're not the boss of me"

queue growling, the investigation of and potential deployment of anti-superman "stuff" ;) (the introduction of which may become important in later movies) and limited inter-superhero *biff* & *pow* etc

...meanwhile the new baddy "arises"...

"TIME OUT...hey guys...maybe we should really go fight this new baddy together hmm ?.." <-- a potential Wonder Woman line in the classic "too much testosterone in the room" tradition ?

"...ok...but don't think this means we are buddies"

*biff* *witty banter* *bonding* *pow* baddy defeated etc

"hey, maybe you guys are alright/right..."

Superman maybe makes some speech about what he's going to be and effectively commits to being "classic" "lawful good" Superman and a member of The Justice League.

*group hug*

Wonder Woman and Superman potentially have a little bit of "a thing" for each other by the end of the movie thus aiding Superman come to terms with his "i'm a lonely super being, no one really understands me" super-emo-ness :P

curtains...

in essence what you'd have is a classic Justice League line-up being formed due to conflict between an older and highly moralistic Batman and a younger "immature" "unbound" and potentially "dangerous" Superman.

if they pull it off...the introduction of the whole thing in one movie...and it will be a huge movie...they basically leapfrog all of The Avengers "stage 1" shenanigans and could go to straight into something akin to Marvels "stage 2".

its a high risk play tho and they are relying on the introduction of "iconic" characters with little exposition...but then The Avengers itself was written in that manner...seeing "stage 1" films was actually irrelevant to watching and enjoying The Avengers and entirely deliberately so...and i think that's DCs catchup angle here...

Why is everyone calling this Batman vs Superman? Has the film been named, did I miss that?

I say give the girl a chance, we have seen actors surprise with a lot of roles over the years, like Heath Ledger as the Joker for example. He was just a romantic comedy guy before that really. True, I think DC are being idiots, it seems like they're throwing this together in a strange way, but who knows, it could work.

Sleekit:in essence what you'd have is a classic Justice League line-up being formed due to conflict between an older and highly moralistic Batman and a younger "immature" "unbound" and potentially "dangerous" Superman.

if they pull it off...the introduction of the whole thing in one movie...and it will be a huge movie...they basically leapfrog all of The Avengers "stage 1" shenanigans and could go to straight into something akin to Marvels "stage 2".

its a high risk play tho and they are relying on the introduction of "iconic" characters with little exposition...but then The Avengers itself was written in that manner...seeing "stage 1" films was actually irrelevant to watching and enjoying The Avengers and entirely deliberately so...and i think that's DCs catchup angle here...

That makes a lot of sense, I seriously hope that's what they're going for.

Although...she seems a bit skinny to play Wonder Woman no? I thought Wonder Woman was meant to be a large, athletic woman with some muscles. This woman has a model's build not an athletes build. Wonder Woman should have thicker thighs and broader shoulders.

I'm not asking for some body-builder chick with abs cos that's gross. Just someone with a bit more meat on her bones.

Sleekit:i have heard mention that they have also revealed The Flash will be being cast

with that and the inclusion of Wonder Woman my take on this is that Man of Steel takes place in a universe in which The Justice League already exists and he's a late (and somewhat ignorant) arrival to the party so to speak.

if that's the case the seemingly uncaring destruction of Metropolis and the killing of his enemy as shown in Man of Steel that did not sit well with many fans may well have been entirely deliberate...

:O

the basic plot of the new film could well be akin to:

the "proto" Justice League turns up in the wake of the last films events.

Superman is largely ignorant of them because "secrecy","coddling by the Kents" and/or "he's a country boy" and/or his time "avoiding the world" in the first movie.

"hey, you really should have kept a lid on some of that shit dude"

"why should i listen to you ?"

"because...I'm The Goddamn Batman!" <---i half expect this line to actually be said on screen btw"..and if you're not prepared to you're a threat to all we hold dear"

"i have enough daddy issues and you're not the boss of me"

queue growling, the investigation of and potential deployment of anti-superman "stuff" ;) (the introduction of which may become important in later movies) and limited inter-superhero *biff* & *pow* etc

...meanwhile the new baddy "arises"...

"TIME OUT...hey guys...maybe we should really go fight this new baddy together hmm ?.." <-- a potential Wonder Woman line in the classic "too much testosterone in the room" tradition ?

"...ok...but don't think this means we are buddies"

*biff* *witty banter* *bonding* *pow* baddy defeated etc

"hey, maybe you guys are alright/right..."

Superman maybe makes some speech about what he's going to be and effectively commits to being "classic" "lawful good" Superman and a member of The Justice League.

*group hug*

Wonder Woman and Superman potentially have a little bit of "a thing" for each other by the end of the movie thus aiding Superman come to terms with his "i'm a lonely super being, no one really understands me" super-emo-ness :P

curtains...

in essence what you'd have is a classic Justice League line-up being formed due to conflict between an older and highly moralistic Batman and a younger "immature" "unbound" and potentially "dangerous" Superman.

if they pull it off...the introduction of the whole thing in one movie...and it will be a huge movie...they basically leapfrog all of The Avengers "stage 1" shenanigans and could go to straight into something akin to Marvels "stage 2".

its a high risk play tho and they are relying on the introduction of "iconic" characters with little exposition...but then The Avengers itself was written in that manner...seeing "stage 1" films was actually irrelevant to watching and enjoying The Avengers and entirely deliberately so...and i think that's DCs catchup angle here...

Although rather formulaic, that could actually work and makes sense contextually. Wouldn't mind seeing that... though with the flash already cast in Arrow, i don't know yet if that guy has the acting chops to pull off a performance in a feature film. Time will tell on that one.

I would have said halfway through season 1 of arrow that the actor didn't have the talent to pull off a feature film Arrow character, but he is slowly proving me wrong, so who knows?

Would love to see Malcolm Merlyn show up in a feature film though, that guy is fantastic.

It's not that ms. Gadot couldn't get toned, she's clearly not adverse to training and exercise. The problem is that she's a model. Is she willing to pretty much ruin her modelling career for the part? She'd have to keep the muscle and extra weight for years if the movie is successful.

That's why I think it's a safe bet we'll get twiggy WW.

PS. I hope they sent her to a voice coach soon, it worked for her role in FF but it's hard to sell an Israeli accent as Amazonian I think.

Gabanuka:'I'd like to think I can count on Snyder to at least keep the bare legs/shoulders and strapless low-neck chestplate look... but I wouldn't put money on it.'

See I want anything other than that. Given that DC seems to be going for psudo-realistic style with these I think it would just look out of place. I hoping for a red and silver Greek cuirass and greaves, that wayit shows of skin while still actually looking like military attire.

I still think that the Greek style armour should be her standard outfit, the Wonder Woman outfit makes little sense as an amazonian attire, and looks completely dated as it's basically not changed from when she was created, the trousers looked awful, but I'm hoping one day she'll stick to the armour.

Sniper Team 4:Skip her origin all together. Have her brush it off as, "It's complicated," or something like that. If you don't know who Wonder Woman is, oh well. The reason I say this is because origin stories are always so boring. Most of the movie is spent with the hero trying to figure himself--or herself in this case--out, and by the time they do decide to be a hero, the movie is almost over and we get really only one scene of them being a hero. The fact that she is going to have to share screen time with Batman and Superman is not going to leave any time to discuss where she came from. Not if they don't want this movie to become a convoluted mess.

I recall the movie; The Mummy Returns, featuring Dwayne Johnson as the Scorpion King. Apparently the character tested well so they gave him an origin movie, everyone remembers what a debacle that was. I wonder if Jim Sterling will, at some point, try to defend it?

Since Nolan wrapped up Batman in a neat little package, more than a few people will ask "Wait, Batman retired at the end of the last one, who's this guy?"

If I were a betting man, I'd wager Batman and Wonder Woman get shoe-horned origin stories.

I think they're making a big mistake by not making a Wonder Woman feature. She's probably more popular than Superman in current popular (but not comic culture) where everyone is sick of all the Superman movies sucking. Seriously, the last one was just obviously "we're making a new Batman movie starring Superman".

If Wonder Woman does have a prominent role, I think the only thing that scares me about Wonder Woman being in this movie, is that if it fails you know people are going to point fingers at Wonder Woman for the failure. They'll say a bunch of bull crap ranging from the simple idea she's female to the idea she took up too much time for writers and filmmakers, they weren't allowed their creative freedoms and blah blah blah.

And then the subject of Wonder Woman having a movie/tv show will disappear again for several decades.

I feel like there's a hell of a lot riding on this if they do give her a major role, and I have my fingers crossed so hard that it's done right.

008Zulu:If I were a betting man, I'd wager Batman and Wonder Woman get shoe-horned origin stories.

Batman is "iconic"

people already know who he is...

hell, he's had 7 modern "blockbuster" movies at this point...and they can handle the idea "this is a different version of Batman" without having their hand held just as easily as they could adjust to the idea of a different version of The Hulk (who has had far less numerous and successful prior exposition) in The Avengers.

or indeed numerous different James Bonds...

there may be a need for some exposition with Wonder Woman...but lets get real here for a second...there's probably hardly anyone in contemporary society who doesn't know who that is (even if the don't know exactly what she is) and yet the last time there was any real mainstream media exposure of the character WAS IN THE 70s some 40 odd years ago...

which hopefully should give you an inkling just how deeply embedded these "iconic" comic book characters actually are in "popular culture"...

All true, but I don't think it will change WB's assumption that people have short attention spans. If they are indeed trying to move away from Nolan's Batman, they will need to reintroduce him, which means a new origin introduction.

... I kinda of wouldn't mind :P The Batman/Wonderwoman romance was pretty good in the Justice League Animated and I still think the DCAU canonical first meeting of Batman and Superman where Batman immediately starts hitting on Louis Lane was pretty funny and kind of cool.

If they got DCAU talented writers it'd be fun (and help the superhero-action-fatigue) if they got twilight level writers... less so

Especially if the rest of the movie is just more of the same Nolan-esque self-indulgent "persecuted hero" complex. I'm quickly becoming resigned to this movie, and all of WB's Avengers Envy, completely sucking. So, if they are going to suck, at least let them suck spectacularly. Or course, I'm the kind of person that actually enjoys Batman & Robin (once I can disconnect the part of my brain that cares about Batman as a character).

Sleekit:there may be a need for some exposition with Wonder Woman...but lets get real here for a second...there's probably hardly anyone in contemporary society who doesn't know who that is (even if the don't know exactly what she is) and yet the last time there was any real mainstream media exposure of the character WAS IN THE 70s some 40 odd years ago...

which hopefully should give you an inkling just how deeply embedded these "iconic" comic book characters actually are in "popular culture"...

Of course, look at people's reactions to the Ang Lee Hulk movie. They expected Bill Bixby hitchhiking to piano music but what they got a modern monster movie (roughly in line with the comic book Hulk) and only passing acknowledgement of the Lou Ferrigno era. Universal / Marvel got scared of the criticism and so the next cinematic foray was a very deliberate attempt to revisit the spirit of the TV show, even including visual designs of sets and effects. The Incredible Hulk was Marvel's second movie and it was dripping with insecurity and half-hearted attempts at world-building... and it sucked. The Hulk everyone loves from the Avengers is loved because they don't bother to go into the details, relying more on the charisma of the actors (Ruffalo and digital) to create a compelling Banner/Hulk that everyone can believe fits their preconceptions of the character.

Here's where it comes back to Wonder Woman. While Movie Bob and I (and probably most people in this forum and who read comics) are hoping for some sort of modern feminist icon robed in the trappings of Classical Greece, most people are going to be expecting Lynda Carter. If they get specific about her at all in this film, they will stray too far from one and lose the audience for the other. When her solo film (or more likely a Justice League film) happens, WB will not be able to handle that pressure. Their "pander at all costs" mentality will result in something... well, something. They currently lack the confidence to this character right. It's a shame only they have the rights.

Gina Carano. I dig why Bob went with the mental shorthand but she's got a name. More to the point, she's got the look for Wonder Woman, and the training. I can't figure why they went with Twiggy, for all the reasons already mentioned but eh. More power to her if she pulls it off, I suppose.

Same reason DC made Amanda Waller thin in New 52 despite all her previous incarnations showing her as heavyset and why they think Wonder Woman is too complicated to give her own movie: They think only one body type can exist.

Women have to be thin and busty without too much muscle or they'll look too masculine and it'll turn away the 14-year-old boys they think are the only audience that see their movies or read their comics.

mjharper:It would be such a shame if they streamlined Wonder Woman's origin after the New 52 reboot spent so much time giving her not only a different birth, but also a story so much more steeped in Greek mythology than before.

Yes, this is actually the one time I didn't mind the changes made by the reboot. Making WW a demigoddess seems much more in-line with Greek mythology and I think it would be easier to translate to film as well.

Is it really that complicated to just say "Her mother fashioned her from clay made from the magical soil of Themiscyra and she was given life and powers from the Greek pantheon"? I mean her new origin is Wonder-Girl's origin. They just transplanted it to Diana.

That's just it though, you can't just have some guy "say" it. A scene like that requires some epic shots of Hippolyta holding her clay baby up to the skies as lightning strikes. It also requires the movie to answer a hole bunch of questions that comes with this. Why would Hippolyta use such a roundabout way of making a baby? Why would the gods grant her wish and just casually create life like that? Why would they also get together and gift this baby with powers beyond what the other Amazons have?

It is also the origin of just about every "real" Greek mythology figure. Perseus and Hercules? Sons of Zeus. Achilles? Son of a nymph. The guy who laid the groundwork for Rome (can't remember the name at the moment)? Son of Venus. It is more thematically fitting since WW has all of her lore grounded in mythology. If anything, that is way easier to just have someone mention if you want to get it out of the way quickly.

Gina Carano. I dig why Bob went with the mental shorthand but she's got a name. More to the point, she's got the look for Wonder Woman, and the training. I can't figure why they went with Twiggy, for all the reasons already mentioned but eh. More power to her if she pulls it off, I suppose.

Same reason DC made Amanda Waller thin in New 52 despite all her previous incarnations showing her as heavyset and why they think Wonder Woman is too complicated to give her own movie: They think only one body type can exist.

Women have to be thin and busty without too much muscle or they'll look too masculine and it'll turn away the 14-year-old boys they think are the only audience that see their movies or read their comics.

Yes, this is actually the one time I didn't mind the changes made by the reboot. Making WW a demigoddess seems much more in-line with Greek mythology and I think it would be easier to translate to film as well.

Is it really that complicated to just say "Her mother fashioned her from clay made from the magical soil of Themiscyra and she was given life and powers from the Greek pantheon"? I mean her new origin is Wonder-Girl's origin. They just transplanted it to Diana.

That's just it though, you can't just have some guy "say" it. A scene like that requires some epic shots of Hippolyta holding her clay baby up to the skies as lightning strikes. It also requires the movie to answer a hole bunch of questions that comes with this. Why would Hippolyta use such a roundabout way of making a baby? Why would the gods grant her wish and just casually create life like that? Why would they also get together and gift this baby with powers beyond what the other Amazons have?

It is also the origin of just about every "real" Greek mythology figure. Perseus and Hercules? Sons of Zeus. Achilles? Son of a nymph. The guy who laid the groundwork for Rome (can't remember the name at the moment)? Son of Venus. It is more thematically fitting since WW has all of her lore grounded in mythology. If anything, that is way easier to just have someone mention if you want to get it out of the way quickly.

Use the 2009 animated movie as a template. It covered Wonder Woman very well including a slightly revised origin. All they'd have to do is translate that to live action, and possibly extend the opening scene to show the amazonian history.

Same reason DC made Amanda Waller thin in New 52 despite all her previous incarnations showing her as heavyset and why they think Wonder Woman is too complicated to give her own movie: They think only one body type can exist.

Women have to be thin and busty without too much muscle or they'll look too masculine and it'll turn away the 14-year-old boys they think are the only audience that see their movies or read their comics.

Is it really that complicated to just say "Her mother fashioned her from clay made from the magical soil of Themiscyra and she was given life and powers from the Greek pantheon"? I mean her new origin is Wonder-Girl's origin. They just transplanted it to Diana.

That's just it though, you can't just have some guy "say" it. A scene like that requires some epic shots of Hippolyta holding her clay baby up to the skies as lightning strikes. It also requires the movie to answer a hole bunch of questions that comes with this. Why would Hippolyta use such a roundabout way of making a baby? Why would the gods grant her wish and just casually create life like that? Why would they also get together and gift this baby with powers beyond what the other Amazons have?

It is also the origin of just about every "real" Greek mythology figure. Perseus and Hercules? Sons of Zeus. Achilles? Son of a nymph. The guy who laid the groundwork for Rome (can't remember the name at the moment)? Son of Venus. It is more thematically fitting since WW has all of her lore grounded in mythology. If anything, that is way easier to just have someone mention if you want to get it out of the way quickly.

Use the 2009 animated movie as a template. It covered Wonder Woman very well including a slightly revised origin. All they'd have to do is translate that to live action, and possibly extend the opening scene to show the amazonian history.

That would be good, but that movie had a rather long opening sequence explaining all of the things that are complex and convoluted about WW. It shows the Amazons fighting Ares, why they were given Themiscyra, why Hippolyta doesn't want another child from a man and why the gods would reward her with a new child when asked. You probably can't do that as well in a movie where WW has to share screen time with two other heroes.

And as much as I love the animated movie, it too failed miserably at translating some of WW's lore to movie form. Seriously, where the FUCK did the invisible jet come from? They never mention it AT ALL, it just shows up when they need to get off the island. No explanation, no questions asked, NOTHING!

That's just it though, you can't just have some guy "say" it. A scene like that requires some epic shots of Hippolyta holding her clay baby up to the skies as lightning strikes. It also requires the movie to answer a hole bunch of questions that comes with this. Why would Hippolyta use such a roundabout way of making a baby? Why would the gods grant her wish and just casually create life like that? Why would they also get together and gift this baby with powers beyond what the other Amazons have?

It is also the origin of just about every "real" Greek mythology figure. Perseus and Hercules? Sons of Zeus. Achilles? Son of a nymph. The guy who laid the groundwork for Rome (can't remember the name at the moment)? Son of Venus. It is more thematically fitting since WW has all of her lore grounded in mythology. If anything, that is way easier to just have someone mention if you want to get it out of the way quickly.

Use the 2009 animated movie as a template. It covered Wonder Woman very well including a slightly revised origin. All they'd have to do is translate that to live action, and possibly extend the opening scene to show the amazonian history.

That would be good, but that movie had a rather long opening sequence explaining all of the things that are complex and convoluted about WW. It shows the Amazons fighting Ares, why they were given Themiscyra, why Hippolyta doesn't want another child from a man and why the gods would reward her with a new child when asked. You probably can't do that as well in a movie where WW has to share screen time with two other heroes.

And as much as I love the animated movie, it too failed miserably at translating some of WW's lore to movie form. Seriously, where the FUCK did the invisible jet come from? They never mention it AT ALL, it just shows up when they need to get off the island. No explanation, no questions asked, NOTHING!

They can drop the jet, that's kind of one of those unnecessary things about her since she can fly.

Otherwise though, if they can make the scene concise and focused, people would likely be willing to sit through 15-20 minutes of Wondey's origin. They sat through it in Man of Steel...sort of, it was so disjointed and unfocused who knows what we sat through.