Re: Shatter in Raiding

Currently on the beta ALL spells use up FoF charges, probably on live too, can't confirm atm.
Example: FoF procs, you go into some mobs and do one Arcane Explosion and all FoF charges are exhausted.
Indeed strange.

Originally Posted by Tablemaker

Yeah. It's funny how they reverse the whole thing. The fact of the matter is... if a customer created a scene in real life like they are in the forums, they would be removed from the store. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Example: GC works at McDonalds. Some idiots walks up to the counter and asks for a Whopper. GC tells him they do not sell Whoppers. The idiot flips a nut. Calls GC off and throws straws at him. GC asks him to leave.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

Originally Posted by Delijica

I'm pretty sure it's on hit. 100% even.
MSBT always shows "-Fingers of Frost" when the second spell hits the target, not when it leaves my hand. Same is with Blizzard's default buff bar, the buff disappears when the second spell hits the target.

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one, I am experiancing exactly the opposite.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

Originally Posted by AsIlaydying

I am going to have to disagree with you on this one, I am experiancing exactly the opposite.

You are right, just tested it out on the beta. The FoF charge is calculated on cast not on hit. But still, you can make a Shatter combo on the second FoF charge 99% of time (yes, both the Frostbolt and Ice Lance will be affected by the FoF charge thus both having 50% more crit chance and Ice Lance doing triple damage).

Originally Posted by Tablemaker

Yeah. It's funny how they reverse the whole thing. The fact of the matter is... if a customer created a scene in real life like they are in the forums, they would be removed from the store. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Example: GC works at McDonalds. Some idiots walks up to the counter and asks for a Whopper. GC tells him they do not sell Whoppers. The idiot flips a nut. Calls GC off and throws straws at him. GC asks him to leave.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

Originally Posted by Magicbossk

I registered to post this....

Get FoF, get shatter.

Spell rotation is as follows (does not include throwing in the fireball when it procs)
Frostbolt---this procs FoF
Frostbolt (consumes 1 charge of FoF)
Frostbolt + Immediately spam 1 ice lance. (these 2 hit at the same time, both affected by FoF, consuming the last 1 charge)

Ice lance is faster in flight than frostbolt, therefore if you cast frostbolt and immediately follow it up with an ice lance they will hit at the same time.
Giving you 3 spells affected by FoF which only has 2 charges.

Good game.

I've been doing this on live since Day One of patch 3.0.2.

I think a lot of people just want back the original set up, which had it as duration and not charge, so kiddies who fail at watching procs go off can time it right. Personally, I have had no issue with it, and consistently get my Frostbolt, Frostbolt+Ice Lance combo off every time.

All it takes is a little less zombified button mashing, and an increase in attentiveness.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

Originally Posted by Statix

I hate the fact that I have to worry about the Brain Freeze proc. It's really only useful in PVP where you need to keep moving and it's nearly impossible to cast Frostbolts, but in PVE, I wouldn't take it.

For raiding, Brain Freeze wouldn't be the best idea, but it's not terrible, either.. For the 18/0/53 build I'm thinking of, I'd rather take Imp. WE instead. It's one or the other, but we can't have both... at least for 18/0/53.

The reason for this is because while BF is a neat talent, it's still an untalented FB. Put that against a talented FrB, and you'll find that BF's only utility in a raid is to save mana, which I've been reading isn't really a big issue @ L80. Having your WE out for a longer duration (doing more damage) and being able to give mana back to the raid will be better than a few free FBs during a boss fight, and will easily make up for the lack of points in BF.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

Originally Posted by Max Rebo

For raiding, Brain Freeze wouldn't be the best idea, but it's not terrible, either.. For the 18/0/53 build I'm thinking of, I'd rather take Imp. WE instead. It's one or the other, but we can't have both... at least for 18/0/53.

The reason for this is because while BF is a neat talent, it's still an untalented FB. Put that against a talented FrB, and you'll find that BF's only utility in a raid is to save mana, which I've been reading isn't really a big issue @ L80. Having your WE out for a longer duration (doing more damage) and being able to give mana back to the raid will be better than a few free FBs during a boss fight, and will easily make up for the lack of points in BF.

I agree. And as far as a PvE spec as frost I would think this spec would be ideal:

Re: Shatter in Raiding

At the moment, it is still possible to get three charges out of Fingers of Frost.

First, you are casting and FoF procs.

You cast the first frostbolt, using the first charge. Then you cast the second frostbolt and hold down the Icelance key. Release the Icelance key just as the spell finishes (Quartz is quite good for this due to the latency indicator in the cast bar), and both spells will treat the target as if they were frozen, allowing you to get three shatters from Fingers of Frost.

Also, the reason that the Fireball from Brain Freeze consumes a charge of Fingers of Frost is because the buff treats your next two spells cast on the target as frozen, no matter what they are. It is no different than if you cast fireball against a target who was in a frost nova, you still get the +50% crit chance from them being frozen but it is a bit of a waste.

As for Brain Freeze, I quite like having something to keep track of in a raid apart from Fingers of Frost, but I imagine that it would really shine in an elemental build. They could greatly increase its PVE viability if they made the talent cause your next Fireball or Frostfire Bolt to be instant cast and cost no mana, which would allow deep frost mages to use Frostfire Bolt (which of course benefits from talents like Ice Shards) instead of an untalented Fireball, even if it does get an extra +10% crit from your Winter's Chill.

I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

If frostbite and FoF always proc together, does that mean if you put 2/2 in FoF and 1/3 in Frostbite it will still proc as much? If so it'd be nice having the 2 extra points to throw 1 into imp blizzard to get up 5 WC buffs on the boss fast, or to toss both points in spell impact to give Ice Lance another 4% dmg.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

it still works, sir. After I read your post, I was compelled to log on and test it. It very clearly works.

I casted frostbolts until FoF procced. The target was, naturally, frozen. I ice lanced the mob, using one charge. The Snare broke. I then sheeped the mob to full health. I had 3 seconds of FoF left. I then did a shatter combo on a non-snared target with 1 FoF charge.

I suppose, though, that it's the timing of it. That ice lance leaves my hands when the frostbolt does. It's a pvp habit, I suppose, thats paying dividends now.

edit- Further testing: Conceptually, the shatter combo is shooting an ice lance before the frostbolt even lands on the target to grant a crit. However, there is no range limit to doing a second charge, FoF shatter combo. One can be in melee range and still pull it off. Try casting frostbolt and spamming ice lance before the frostbolt is even done casting.

verdict: They did change the mechanics of FoF a little bit, but it's still possible to do FoF1: Frostbolt. FoF2: Frostbolt + ice lance. If it's not working for someone, then you're probably doing it wrong. I'm not a hacker, and I can do it the majority of the time.

Re: Shatter in Raiding

hmm maybe they have yet to implement that change then. I recall a blue post claiming they were changing it. I still do the same as you. It's a habit. When something is frozen, Frostbolt+ice lance. Hopefully the won't change it, it's too good It could be seen as an unintentional use of game mechanics though.