I'm curious, how are you defining letting go of sex? Is that celibacy? Is it that you are unbothered by other people's sexual morality or behavior? Have you let go of all desires relating to sex? Is it one aspect, or all aspects? And when you say it's easy, does that mean you've actually done it, or that you could if you wanted?

Causal sex, the only way it could be defined in relation to the discussion.

Is that celibacy?

The Zen masters in question are obviously not celibate. In America, of the Zen tradition only the OBC practices celibacy. Incidentally, a few years ago the abbot there stepped down because of romantic reasons...

Is it that you are unbothered by other people's sexual morality or behavior?

I guess you deleted it from my quote before reading "Betrayal, broken promises or vows, infidelity, and stuff like that is not easy to let go of."

Have you let go of all desires relating to sex?

No.

Is it one aspect, or all aspects?

You mean different positions or orientations?

And when you say it's easy, does that mean you've actually done it, or that you could if you wanted?

I've had casual sex or sex for gratification and nothing else. This appears to be the nature of the sexual relations that the Zen masters in question engaged in. Of course it could be claimed that these encounters were some form of 'expedient means', but that would still be accurately described as casual sex.

No backpedaling. I had started several times to answer, but needed some clarification - on a Buddhist forum letting go of sex can mean lots of things - there's even an active thread here on DW on the health benefits of celibacy.

I actually thought that when you asked about betrayal, broken promises, etc. that you were referring to the larger arena of life where those things happen, and have nothing to do with sex.

shel wrote:

uan wrote:

shel wrote:
Sex is easy to let go of, actually. Betrayal, broken promises or vows, infidelity, and stuff like that is not easy to let go of. Should it be?

Roshi, you are a sexual abuser
“Come” you say as you pull me from a handshake onto your lap
“Open” you say as you push your hands between my knees, up my thighs
fondle my breasts
rub my genitals
french kiss me

you put my hand on your genitals
stroke your penis
jack you off?
this is sanzen?

my friend—she was inji
sex with roshi

she tried to say no
you demanded, demanded, demanded
demon demand the force of a tornado

sex with roshi
for whose best interest?

I told you I don’t like it.
I asked you why you do this?
You said, “nonattachment, nonattachment, you nonattachment"

I told you as shoji, “women very angry, very upset”
I asked you why you do this.
You said: “Be good daughter to roshi, and good wife to G. [her husband].
Roshi, that is incest So many women trying to shake the shame from their voices of
Sex with roshi

We came to you with the trust of a student
You were our teacher
You betrayed us
You violated our bodies
You rape our souls

You betrayed our previous student-teacher relationship
You abuse us as women
You emasculate our husbands and boyfriends

Roshi, you are a sexual abuser
Your nuns you make your sexual servants
Your monks and oshos are crippled with denial
Roshi, Sexual Abuser.

Actually Judaism is one of the few religions where celibacy is not celibrated, sex seems to be quite ok within the confines of marriage. Sex taboos are more of a Christian idea. In Buddhism and Hinduism it's held up as an ideal on the path to liberation. So 'Judaized thinking' doesn't quite hit the spot.

Roshi, you are a sexual abuser
“Come” you say as you pull me from a handshake onto your lap
“Open” you say as you push your hands between my knees, up my thighs
fondle my breasts
rub my genitals
french kiss me

you put my hand on your genitals
stroke your penis
jack you off?
this is sanzen?

my friend—she was inji
sex with roshi

she tried to say no
you demanded, demanded, demanded
demon demand the force of a tornado

sex with roshi
for whose best interest?

I told you I don’t like it.
I asked you why you do this?
You said, “nonattachment, nonattachment, you nonattachment"

I told you as shoji, “women very angry, very upset”
I asked you why you do this.
You said: “Be good daughter to roshi, and good wife to G. [her husband].
Roshi, that is incest So many women trying to shake the shame from their voices of
Sex with roshi

We came to you with the trust of a student
You were our teacher
You betrayed us
You violated our bodies
You rape our souls

You betrayed our previous student-teacher relationship
You abuse us as women
You emasculate our husbands and boyfriends

Roshi, you are a sexual abuser
Your nuns you make your sexual servants
Your monks and oshos are crippled with denial
Roshi, Sexual Abuser.

Roshi, you are a sexual abuser
“Come” you say as you pull me from a handshake onto your lap
“Open” you say as you push your hands between my knees, up my thighs
fondle my breasts
rub my genitals
french kiss me

you put my hand on your genitals
stroke your penis
jack you off?
this is sanzen?

my friend—she was inji
sex with roshi

she tried to say no
you demanded, demanded, demanded
demon demand the force of a tornado

sex with roshi
for whose best interest?

I told you I don’t like it.
I asked you why you do this?
You said, “nonattachment, nonattachment, you nonattachment"

I told you as shoji, “women very angry, very upset”
I asked you why you do this.
You said: “Be good daughter to roshi, and good wife to G. [her husband].
Roshi, that is incest So many women trying to shake the shame from their voices of
Sex with roshi

We came to you with the trust of a student
You were our teacher
You betrayed us
You violated our bodies
You rape our souls

You betrayed our previous student-teacher relationship
You abuse us as women
You emasculate our husbands and boyfriends

Roshi, you are a sexual abuser
Your nuns you make your sexual servants
Your monks and oshos are crippled with denial
Roshi, Sexual Abuser.

–By Chizuko Karen Joy Tasaka (1951-2010)

(My bold above)

Thanks for bringing it here.

1Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?2If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.3Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.4With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.

"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")