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Bionic Bigfoot 75

One thing I have yet to see in this thread, or any other Phoenix lights thread for that matter, is where is the evidence that any of this was in fact ET? All I've seen is words to that effect without even the least bit of substantiation. Where is the evidence to show that this event (either of them) was from an otherworldly source?

And there won't be any concrete, written in stone, absolute scientific proof that this event was an alien spacecraft. However, instead of acknowledging that the 'proof' suggesting it was all explainable, you and people like you have automatically closed the case and in your minds. The evidence given suggesting it was planes in the earlier sighting is not iron clad at all. You're wanting proof positive that this event was ET related and you can't provide that same irrefutable proof that it wasn't.

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booNyzarC 3,014

When I click on that video link it says National Geographic has blocked for copyright reasons in my country.

You aren't missing anything useful. This is a clip from perhaps the worst documentary ever put together on the subject. Larry Lowe completely misrepresents what transpired and utilizes deceptive strawman arguments throughout the whole thing. He deserves a place on the UFO Hall of Shame for this appalling documentary.

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TheMacGuffin 915

All I see in that video are people who don't agree with the flare theory, which is fine by me. What I don't see however is the evidence that the flares or the 'V' shaped object(s) were of alien origin. I'm not seeing the evidential pathway that leads from 'I don't know what that is' to 'it's from another world'.

If the thing was really as large and silent as they say, without jets, rockets, rotors or propellers, then we are by definition dealing with some more advanced, exotic or unknown technology.

If this thing was really flying around, where did it go after people stopped seeing it? Where did it land or did it land at all?

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TheMacGuffin 915

You aren't missing anything useful. This is a clip from perhaps the worst documentary ever put together on the subject. Larry Lowe completely misrepresents what transpired and utilizes deceptive strawman arguments throughout the whole thing. He deserves a place on the UFO Hall of Shame for this appalling documentary.

Never take his word for ANYTHING. Just watch it and judge for yourselves while ignoring the "skeptical" spin and filtering. It's all a big smokescreen of BS anyway.

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synchronomy 749

You aren't missing anything useful. This is a clip from perhaps the worst documentary ever put together on the subject. Larry Lowe completely misrepresents what transpired and utilizes deceptive strawman arguments throughout the whole thing. He deserves a place on the UFO Hall of Shame for this appalling documentary.

That doesn't make me feel better.

Now I just want to see it all the more!

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TheMacGuffin 915

And there won't be any concrete, written in stone, absolute scientific proof that this event was an alien spacecraft. However, instead of acknowledging that the 'proof' suggesting it was all explainable, you and people like you have automatically closed the case and in your minds. The evidence given suggesting it was planes in the earlier sighting is not iron clad at all. You're wanting proof positive that this event was ET related and you can't provide that same irrefutable proof that it wasn't.

It isn't about proof and evidence with them--never was. It's all about how to spin this story, dismiss the UFO witnesses and throw out various smokescreens and phony "explanations" so no one will take any of it seriously.

It isn't about proof and evidence with them--never was. It's all about how to spin this story, dismiss the UFO witnesses and throw out various smokescreens and phony "explanations" so no one will take any of it seriously.

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booNyzarC 3,014

Feel free. Watch the whole thing, and please let us know what you think of it.

It isn't about proof and evidence with them--never was. It's all about how to spin this story, dismiss the UFO witnesses and throw out various smokescreens and phony "explanations" so no one will take any of it seriously.

The last thing the "skeptics" care about is what's true. LOL.

I'm growing tired of your character assassination techniques McGuffin. Is that all you have in this discussion? Ad Hominems followed by Ad Hominems? It does seem to be your primary focus here. Trying to undermine the very character of those who offer a different perspective than the one you protect so vehemently. Haven't you figured out that this actually makes you look bad?

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TheMacGuffin 915

Feel free. Watch the whole thing, and please let us know what you think of it.

I'm growing tired of your character assassination techniques McGuffin. Is that all you have in this discussion? Ad Hominems followed by Ad Hominems? It does seem to be your primary focus here. Trying to undermine the very character of those who offer a different perspective than the one you protect so vehemently. Haven't you figured out that this actually makes you look bad?

No, that's not how I see it at all. You always want to make this about yourself, but it's much bigger than me and you.

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Bionic Bigfoot 75

There is nothing absurd or ridiculous about it. She's a very intelligent lady. I genuinely like her as a human being. I think she has a great heart, nothing but the purest of intentions, and I fully respect her beliefs. None of that changes the fact that much of her photography and videos are nothing more than illumination flares. If she feels spiritually enriched by them, I hope that the BGR continues operations indefinitely in order to provide her with more inspiration and warm fuzzy feelings. I'm not opposed to that in any way.

What a sarcastic and condescending way to infer that she's crazy. All those nice words of praise for Dr. Kitei, intelligent, genuine, sincere, BUT she's still a looney, right? Nice.

Perception is an amazingly complex thing, especially when something takes us by surprise, is indistinct, and/or is only there for a fleeting time. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Not any more than it has to do with being startled when someone waits for you to round a corner and says "boo!"

And with this statement you're basically saying that it was a mass hallucination or a perception problem that is responsible for the 1000's of witness reports. This is a common theory used by the skeptics, too bad it doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, if the numbers of witnesses was much smaller, then yes maybe. It's a nonsensical argument considering the number of witnesses in the case.

If you re-watch the video I posted at the beginning of the topic, you'll see that there were 1000's of witnesses. Dr. Kitei mentions that she herself called back over 700 of the witnesses. She and others returned all the phone calls they received over a 3 month period.

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TheMacGuffin 915

There are actually three parts of that National Geographic documentary, and here are the first two.

The UFO could have been as big as a mile across, and they even brought in a group of real scientists (not these "skeptics") to try to figure out what this spacecraft really was. Certainly the military didn't know what it was, at least they didn't admit to it.

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Bionic Bigfoot 75

I'm pretty sure I've seen that National Geographic program, but I'm not able to view it either. I will have to go through a proxy server to watch it later and I would like to see it again to refresh my memory.

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TheMacGuffin 915

I'm pretty sure I've seen that National Geographic program, but I'm not able to view it either. I will have to go through a proxy server to watch it later and I would like to see it again to refresh my memory.

Like I said, you can expect all the Internet restrictions to keep getting worse, since there are some very powerful interests working hard on that.

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S2F 3,512

Bloodstained Hurricane

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If the thing was really as large and silent as they say, without jets, rockets, rotors or propellers, then we are by definition dealing with some more advanced, exotic or unknown technology.

If this thing was really flying around, where did it go after people stopped seeing it? Where did it land or did it land at all?

Given perceptual errors abound in every human on the planet, as exemplified by psyche's earlier post with this image:

How then can you be so sure that there even was a craft (singular)?

The skeptics aren't the ones dismissing evidence or possibilities here. In fact, the skeptics are the ones looking at everything in an attempt to offer possible answers as opposed to a few videos and testimony while ignoring everything else.

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TheMacGuffin 915

Given perceptual errors abound in every human on the planet, as exemplified by psyche's earlier post with this image:

How then can you be so sure that there even was a craft (singular)?

The skeptics aren't the ones dismissing evidence or possibilities here. In fact, the skeptics are the ones looking at everything in an attempt to offer possible answers as opposed to a few videos and testimony while ignoring everything else.

Yeah, well that's not what the witnesses reported seeing, not at all.

As for the "skeptics", I think they are absolutely selective about the evidence that they use, including on this thread.

Edited October 13, 2012 by TheMacGuffin

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Bionic Bigfoot 75

Another thing that is never addressed properly is the lack of sound. If this was a plane or planes, they would have been heard. All of the witnesses said there was no sound associated with the lights they saw.

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Bloodstained Hurricane

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As for the "skeptics", I think they are absolutely selective about the evidence that they use, including on this thread.

I think everyone knows that image wasn't intended to be a representation of what the witnesses saw. It was intended to highlight perceptual errors that can confuse our brains, specifically that humans have an inherent flaw that can and does 'connect the dots' between point sources of lights. Hence the triangle shaped 'craft' that some people (not all, not by a long shot) reported.

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Bloodstained Hurricane

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Another thing that is never addressed properly is the lack of sound. If this was a plane or planes, they would have been heard. All of the witnesses said there was no sound associated with the lights they saw.

I think it's possible that planes flying at low throttle moving slowly in formation and at high enough altitude would make little enough noise that it could be drowned out by the ambient sounds of a large city like Phoenix. Not sure if that's the case but it seems like a definite possibility.