Ok, so basically you can buy PS500's and probably be just as happy for $500. It'll have a warranty and the fun of instant gratification.

Or you can build your own headphone for fun using handbuilt parts and have something which in my opinion can compare to the LCD-2/HE-500 for the money in terms of sound. In terms of comfort and build quality though, it goes to those two LOL.

SR-60's + magnums + cups = around $400. You can upgrade cable, headband, and dynamat the magnet as well.

Hmm, possibly. How much are magnums by themselves? 120$ correct? Already have a headband.

Yeah I loved modding my Grado's too, the time I spent in this thread, the stuff I learned, the experiences I had, the people I got know, it was good stuff. I can definitely see how people would gravitate to other headphone experiences though. Ultimately it's what drives this hobby. I have an opportunity to try some electrostats, which will be arriving soon. It will be interesting to see how they compare and contrast to the dynamic drivers, and ortho's I have. My gear is on one level pedestrian, but I think a lot of people look at even the modest amount of money I've spent on my audiophile journey as sort of eccentric. I've been listening to my T50's a lot the last couple of days and there is just something very compelling about the sound. I think you're right about the black background Kojaku, it's the thing that really draws me in. I've been thinking about parting with my HF2's to finance a new leg of my headphone journey lately, I had been thinking HE400, but with these electrostats coming who knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wje

I had the Magnum v.4 with wooden cups. Actually, 2 pair of them and a pair of HF-2s. Slowly, I had been selling off the Grados to try something else. I had my last pair of wooden Magnum v.4 headphones that I sent to an inviduals for a week to test to see what the Magnum sound was like. Meanwhile, I used my HifiMAN HE-400s and my Fostex T50RP (Modified) headphones. When the Magnums came back to me, I really found out how far I had distanced myself by getting acclimated with the HE-400s and HE-5LE. The T50RP is a different beast with even more of a warmer signature, and less detail. However, the HE-400s retained most of the detail that I was used to with the Grado / Magnum set ups, but really improved upon the bass to a different level. I then looked at the Magnums and realized that they were some gorgeous looking headphones, but in all seriousness, couldn't see myself reaching for them as my first choice. So, I put them up for sale.

I really don't want to imply or push my beliefs of one technology vs. another in this situation. But, for me, I had just become more acclimated to the ortho sound - especially what HifiMAN was offering. Due to this acclimation that I had developed, the Magnums were just something that presented the sound different to me. It's not that the sound was presented in a bad way, just in a manner that I had grown to like. Had I not tried the ortho headphones, I'd probably still be quite happy with owning my Magnums.

Believe me, I loved modding the Grados and Magnums. I loved buying unfinished cups, then applying my own custom stain mixes to give the cups a distinct look. In the end, though, I realized that there were quite a few steps involved to get a complete set all assembled and running right. I certainly don't fault those individuals who seek $100 - $150 for such work and believe that is a realistic cost when you look at the time that's involved with finishing cups, building a new "Y" cable, the soldering, cutting the screen, chasing down the right headband and ear pads, etc. But, again, I think I loved building the various versions that I did. I loved the work - probably moreso than even the listening. However, with the HifiMAN headphones since they essentially come "equipped" with the option of pleather or velour pads and a leather headband, more time is spent listening as opposed to agonizing over the next upgrade that I would have like to perform on the Grados or Magnums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kojaku

Yeah, I know you're talking about Wayne . I honestly keep my Grado's around to remind me of how I started. They can't really compete with the top-flight orthos...
The Magnum V4 has far less hot treble than previous iterations, but it still has that essential Grado sound. The bass is not very extended, and only slightly pressurized (meaning it lacks heft). Of course, the big thing it lacks compared to even mid-fi orthos like the Thunderpants, is grainless sound. Dynamic drivers have always had the limitation of not being as jet black as orthos.
Compared to the TP1, magnum V4s don't have nearly the extension. When fed right, TP1s can RUMBLE. Not the best bass I've ever heard, but then again, I own LCD-2s....still very good. The V4s are more lively, but I attribute that to slightly hotter than normal treble. The imaging is a tad bit breathier, with more space for each voice in the image. When comparing the TP1s to magnums, neutrality vs liveliness is really the debate.
Compared to the HiFiMan offerings, there's little that can be said, I find HiFiMan cans a bit to sharp on the attack, but they're very good, especially the HE-500 for the price. The cans are quick. They render cymbals, high voices with astonishing clarity. The mids are a bit unnatural to me, but again...LCD-2s. The Magnums just don't have the same speed, spaciousness, and imaging as the HiFiMan offerings.
Compared to LCD-2s, there's really no contest. It's a movement from lively and somewhat hot to natural, natural, natural. I though Grado mids were liquid. Nope, they're lush, overly warm compared to LCD-2 mids. Now, the hotter treble gives people a sense of macro detail on the V4s, but the natural, extended treble of the LCD-2s is just so much more easy to take in. You don't struggle to hear the splash and ring of far away cymbals. There's a realism that just isn't there on dynamics. Bass, you know the story.
All-in-all, the ortho family just draws more out of recordings. They satisfy with wide, expansive imaging or ridiculous dynamic pacing, or extension in both directions, or pitch-black rendering background. There's just so much more to take in...
I began my head-fi life as a Grado-head...but since my first ortho taste, Grados have been a fond memory more than a viable alternative...of course, I still offer all the advice I can to new Grado heads. That's what I came in hi-fi doing
Kojaku

Come on guys...you're bumming me out a bit. I'm pretty early on in my head-fi journey and I'm finding it hard to believe the Mags I'm about to build can so thoroughly be topped.

Ah well, I guess that's what makes this a lifelong hobby- there's always another sonic landscape you can move to that you may like better....

I think I'll be content for a long time with these, but at least I can also look forward to an ortho in the future.

Oh no it definitely can. But only by headphones costing almost twice their cost and with supporting equipment to match.

Take a look at me for example, I'm constantly shuffling headphones trying to beat them. The Magnums are a nice wall of sound but I've been trying to find a very full sounding orthodynamic with lots of attack and presence. Peter from Double Helix Cables recently told me to upgrade my amp setup so thats what I'm doing to try to bring out the beast in the LCD-2. Part of me think it's a futile effort but here we go...

Oh no it definitely can. But only by headphones costing almost twice their cost and with supporting equipment to match.

Take a look at me for example, I'm constantly shuffling headphones trying to beat them. The Magnums are a nice wall of sound but I've been trying to find a very full sounding orthodynamic with lots of attack and presence. Peter from Double Helix Cables recently told me to upgrade my amp setup so thats what I'm doing to try to bring out the beast in the LCD-2. Part of me think it's a futile effort but here we go...

Wait, your comparing grados compared to the LCD 2? Isnt that somewhat unfair? I would be interested in another headphone with the same sound signature as the grados, but it seems for the price there arent any. Or am I confused?

Also the HE-500s are 700$. Not 400$, or were you reffering to a different headphone. (sorry I know very little about hifimans lineup)

Wait, your comparing grados compared to the LCD 2? Isnt that somewhat unfair? I would be interested in another headphone with the same sound signature as the grados, but it seems for the price there arent any. Or am I confused?

Also the HE-500s are 700$. Not 400$, or were you reffering to a different headphone. (sorry I know very little about hifimans lineup)

No I'm saying that their sound signature is somewhat akin to those. The LCD-2's are better, but it's overall a similar sound, just funnelled into a wall of sound versus having actual soundstage. The magnums being the funnel of course.

Ah okay. So is the newish consensus these days that with all the time and money invested into grados once youve gotten magnums and cups, its just not worth it? Or am I receiving this information wrong?

Ah okay. So is the newish consensus these days that with all the time and money invested into grados once youve gotten magnums and cups, its just not worth it? Or am I receiving this information wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melvins

No. Dude, magnums are held on a pedestal here for the most part.

They're like the epitome of Grado awesomeness. I've built like 3 pairs already.

Ah okay. So is the newish consensus these days that with all the time and money invested into grados once youve gotten magnums and cups, its just not worth it? Or am I receiving this information wrong?

We're meaning to say that a modded magnum setup, even with, let's say, my pad mods (which eliminate treble overshoot), have some significant flaws BUT (and it's a big "but"), a modded magnum setup is a better value for the money. You should note that it will NOT, from a purely performance standpoint, outclass a 1k flagship, or even the $700 HE-500. There are fundamental physical limitations to dynamics that create issues with certain aspects of their performance. Extension, THD, and excess resonance features are a few. Having a planar wavefront has a great number of benefits in terms of audio performance, so when you get down to the nitty gritty, the physics cap the Magnum performance.

TL;DR: Modded Magnum setups are not poor performers, they are in fact great values for the money. Are they Summit-Fi? No, sadly, they are not.

Heh, for a minute there I wanted them to have that potential, but I guess the old saying's really true: there's no free lunch.

Also, since this is still a modding thread (albeit a very meandering and half-dead one), I gotta ask, Kojaku. What did you do to your pads?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kojaku

We're meaning to say that a modded magnum setup, even with, let's say, my pad mods (which eliminate treble overshoot), have some significant flaws BUT (and it's a big "but"), a modded magnum setup is a better value for the money. You should note that it will NOT, from a purely performance standpoint, outclass a 1k flagship, or even the $700 HE-500. There are fundamental physical limitations to dynamics that create issues with certain aspects of their performance. Extension, THD, and excess resonance features are a few. Having a planar wavefront has a great number of benefits in terms of audio performance, so when you get down to the nitty gritty, the physics cap the Magnum performance.

TL;DR: Modded Magnum setups are not poor performers, they are in fact great values for the money. Are they Summit-Fi? No, sadly, they are not.

We're meaning to say that a modded magnum setup, even with, let's say, my pad mods (which eliminate treble overshoot), have some significant flaws BUT (and it's a big "but"), a modded magnum setup is a better value for the money. You should note that it will NOT, from a purely performance standpoint, outclass a 1k flagship, or even the $700 HE-500. There are fundamental physical limitations to dynamics that create issues with certain aspects of their performance. Extension, THD, and excess resonance features are a few. Having a planar wavefront has a great number of benefits in terms of audio performance, so when you get down to the nitty gritty, the physics cap the Magnum performance.

TL;DR: Modded Magnum setups are not poor performers, they are in fact great values for the money. Are they Summit-Fi? No, sadly, they are not.

Kojaku

Pretty much what Kojaku said here...

One thing to add though, is that Grado's have a very specific and unique coloration, that many people enjoy. If anyone is after the "Grado sound", then Magnums are absolutely the place to go, on a technical level, for this particular flavor. On the other hand, for people that don't like the Grado flavor and prefer a more neutral FR, then you don't even need to get to "Summit-Fi" to find something more preferable. I can easily see someone preferring, say an M50, to the Magnum. It's important to keep in mind when talking in terms of "better" or "worse" that personal priorities come into play somewhat.

And if we're talking $1K headphones, the Magnums easily outclassed the Edition 8 that I had.

As far as ultimate values for modded headphones, a lot of folks here jumped onto the Fostex train once they realized that even a fully tricked-out Magnum couldn't surpass a modded T50RP that costs less than a stock SR60.

Heh, for a minute there I wanted them to have that potential, but I guess the old saying's really true: there's no free lunch.

Also, since this is still a modding thread (albeit a very meandering and half-dead one), I gotta ask, Kojaku. What did you do to your pads?

There's a post on here somewhere...I think it's post 118 or something like that, with my pad mod tutorial. If you'd like to read about the effects of my pad mod and about the beginning of my head-fi journey, I and Tyll Herstens have written articles on them on Innerfidelity:

One thing to add though, is that Grado's have a very specific and unique coloration, that many people enjoy. If anyone is after the "Grado sound", then Magnums are absolutely the place to go, on a technical level, for this particular flavor. On the other hand, for people that don't like the Grado flavor and prefer a more neutral FR, then you don't even need to get to "Summit-Fi" to find something more preferable. I can easily see someone preferring, say an M50, to the Magnum. It's important to keep in mind when talking in terms of "better" or "worse" that personal priorities come into play somewhat.

And if we're talking $1K headphones, the Magnums easily outclassed the Edition 8 that I had.

As far as ultimate values for modded headphones, a lot of folks here jumped onto the Fostex train once they realized that even a fully tricked-out Magnum couldn't surpass a modded T50RP that costs less than a stock SR60.

I honestly don't consider the Ultrasone cans even close to Summit-Fi. If we define flagship by cost (which I suppose most do), then the ed 9/10 are definitely flagships, but I never refer to them as such because I think they are far too hot and screechy to even deserve to be called "flagships"...