In this post, I am going to build upon one of my previous posts, namely, The Non-Ethics of Christianity, in order to further illustrate how the Pauline version of Christianity that has been adopted by the majority of Christians in our society (and many non-Christians as well) leads to moral laxity. I will use two examples of Christians who purport to undermine my case, but who in fact, support my case, and illustrate why the Pauline version of Christianity leads to moral laxity.

In my previous post, I cited the fulfillment passages of Matt. 5:17-20, to show that according to Jesus, believers are suppose to follow all of the laws and that they are to do the right thing.

Take some time and really reflect on what Jesus said. Is Jesus talking about dietary laws? What about the law about picking up sticks on the sabbath? Or what about the ceremonial laws no one can follow now that there is no Temple nor Tabernacle? No, no, and no. Jesus tells us what he's referring to and what does it mean to be more righteous that the Pharisees and the teachers of the law in verses 21-48. See how everything He talks about can be traced to the words in the law but Jesus takes them a step farther so it's not just about doing the right thing. It is also about desiring and thinking the right things.

So far, Marcus seems to be in agreement with me in that all of the laws apply. He even goes further and claims that it is not just about doing the right thing, but one is to even desire and think the right thing too. So far, we are in agreement.

Next, he quotes me:

"The belief that Christians do not have to follow the laws came from Paul. According to Paul, Christians are in essence, "lawless." This makes "sin" something of a paradox because a sin is defined as a transgression against God's laws--but there are no laws!"

Marcus responds, with a corresponding Bible passage:

Paul never said that. Funny how in the 21st Century the same charge is being brought up as was tried against him when he was alive.

7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just! 9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. - Romans 3:7-9

Now, we are coming to where I and Christians like Marcus split ways. I argued that according to Jesus you are not free from the law, i.e., not free to do anything, and it is possible to be perfect. However, Marcus, following Paul, adopts the opposite view. Paul claims you can do anything and that you are under the power of sin and so will do anything, good or bad; but you ought not do bad things because not everything will be good for you; but then again you are under the power of sin and so can not help yourself;....--the great Christian paradox and dilemma begins!

Marcus continues:

"Who really thinks they are perfect in their choices and they do make the right choices. Most people don't make the wrong choices on purpose. They do what they think is best for them. The problem is that we don't know better than God does about what is best for us. We are flawed. Broken. That's not saying that we never do anything good. But when we do, that was God, even if we don't know it or recognize it coming from Him. We are responsible for our sin because that is what we want to do. It's hard to accept that we are so messed up it took so much to redeem us, but that is the good news: God loves us that much. So how do we sum up ethical Christianity:

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. - Galatians 5:13,14"

Well, Jesus thought you could be perfect and make right choices and that it is possible to do so. Jesus said nothing about being flawed and broken and therefore unable to be perfect and make right choices! To paraphrase Marcus, If a man tortures a child and then he is sorry for it, I mean, REALLY sorry for it, then as long as he agrees/believes in God/Jesus, "hell is off the table." (As he notes later on in his post.) Now note, Marcus goes on to say that:

"...then you do all you can to never do it again - trusting God to forgive you.

Meaning, its NOT that believers DON'T do it again--only that they TRY not to. Why, there are probably sexual molesters and serial killers that feel real remorse for their crimes, and they try not to do it again--and in the Christian system, as long as they are sorry and they truly mean it, and TRY to be good--that's all that matters. THIS, according to Paul's perversion of the text.

According Jesus however, believers are not free to do whatever they want. According to Jesus, they are to follow all the laws and and the prophets and you are subject to judgement according to the laws. Jesus commands: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matt 5:48

Marcus makes reference to Matt 5:21-48. But now note how MARCUS PROVES MY POST, as he illustrates the Christian confusion and dilemma. He states that:

"...it's not just about doing the right thing. It is also about desiring and thinking the right things."

But then he goes on to tell us that believers CANNOT do the right things, as you are not "perfect," you are flawed and broken! But it is even worse than that. Marcus has already alluded to another problem within Christianity. As Marcus said above:

"That's not saying that we never do anything good. But when we do, that was God."

In other words, God determines who is good and who is bad--God is responsible. God even decides who believes and who does not believe! In my previous post I said:

"Unfortunately, today we live in a society full of these "born sinners"--people who believe they were born bad, and cannot help but to do bad things--which explains the chaos. However, if Christians cannot help but to sin, do they really have "free will??" Not according to the Bible--but that is for another post."

Marcus goes on to say in response to me:

I have to ask...who said you have free-will? It's not just Christians who cannot help but sin - everyone does. Romans 8:5-8 lays out the fact that we are unable to be anything but hostile to God on our own and cannot choose to do differently. IF you truly had free will then you would be able to choose to never sin and always do the right thing 100% of the time in all circumstances - without God. Good luck with that. In the following Socratic dialogue, is where the article truly goes off the rails.

So, according to Marcus, not only is humanity incapable of following the laws and doing right, but no one, including Christians, cannot help BUT to sin, because as he stated, we have "no free will." Believers are "god's robots" according to Marcus, doing evil things because, well, as the bible tells us, "...EVERY decision is from the Lord." (Proverbs 16:33) If they cannot choose to do differently, then it is YAHWEH'S fault that they do evil things. This is further supported by the Bible, as Isaiah 45:7 tells us that Yahweh created evil. Therefore, according to Marcus, believers cannot do the right things, as they are not "perfect" and worse yet, believers have no free will to do so!--it is all up to God!

This is inconsistent however, with the last statement Jesus made in the passages Marcus cited from Matthew 5:21-48, for in 48, Jesus commands followers to "be perfect!!" i.e., believers CAN do right and keep the laws and they are to do so! Lastly, Marcus cites Paul, where Paul claims that believers are FREE FROM THE LAW and that all the laws are condensed into Loving their neighbors as themselves!

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. - Galatians 5:13,14

But note, these passage are also inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus. For how does "love your neighbor as yourself" cover keeping the 613 laws and the teachings of the Prophets? It doesn't.

Let's put it to the test.

MURDER--anyone who murders will be subject to judgment
KOSHER FOOD LAWS--take the kosher food laws according to Jesus, then, anyone who breaks the kosher food laws will be subject to judgment.
ORGIES--how does love your neighbor as yourself prevent you from having an orgy? Hmmmm--lol. It actually seems to support orgies if you and your neighbors love each other! Let's say two married couples who are neighbors had an orgy together. Love your neighbor as yourself does not rule this out! But now note, such orgies would violate the Old Testament laws concerning adultery.

According to Jesus, not only would such an orgy be ruled out, but these people participating in such activities would have to yank their eyes out and so forth, if they even thought about it. So according to Jesus, believers are not free from the law, they are still under "judgement" by the law, and Jesus said they need to be "perfect" as their father in heaven is perfect. i.e, This means they cannot sin, repent, sin, repent, and repeat when necessary. Jesus' supposed sacrifice was a ONE TIME ONLY deal, and Hebrews 10:26-27 confirms this when it states that if believers sin "willfully" after having the "laws written on their hearts" there is no more sacrifice for sins--only the burning fires of hell. No repentance.

Paul, however, was literally saying that the laws no longer apply. This led to debauchery, orgies, and general chaos. This is also why Christians do not follow the majority of the 613 laws or the teachings of the prophets.

When I stated that:" ....even if there were "laws" to break, they would be redundant anyway, when anything can be forgiven as long as a believer sincerely "repents. ...making "sins" virtually meaningless."

Marcus responded by stating that:

Let's apply some honesty here. The Bible is very clear that God punishes sin. Saying "I'm sorry" is neither repentance nor a Free-Get-Out-of-Hell-Free card. Anyone who thinks this way does not understand what Biblical Christianity is. True Repentance means agreeing with God that He is right and We are wrong. It means doing a 180 degree turn away from the offending thought and practice we are sorry for. We are sorry for what what we did and not just sorry about being caught doing it. If you truly repent then you do all you can to never do it again - trusting God to forgive you. That's not saying that there are no consequences or repercussions - only that hell is off the table as one of them. God may choose to give you mercy so that don't suffer here and now but there is no guarantee of that. The guarantee is that God will be with you

To paraphrase Marcus, If a man tortures a child and then he is sorry for it, I mean REALLY sorry for it, then as long as he believes in Jesus, "hell is off the table" Now note, that Marcus goes on to say that:

"...then you do all you can to never do it again - trusting God to forgive you.

Meaning it's Not that believers DON'T do it again--only that they TRY not to. Why, many many sexual molesters and serial killers feel real remorse for their crimes, and they try not to do it again--and in the Christian system, as long as they are sorry and they truly mean it, and TRY to be good--that's all that matters. THIS, according to Paul's perversion of the text. So Marcus McElhaney is not following Jesus, he is following Paul's perverted Christianity which claims you can only try to be good, you can't really be good--but it doesn't matter, because as long as you say "sorry" to Jesus, you still get to go to heaven, as hell, as he says, is, "taken off the table! And if hell is "taken off the table, then Marcus is being disingenuous when he stated that "God punishes sin." If "hell is off the table," then there are no consequences for sin.

But it is even worse than that. Marcus would have us think that Jesus must be a fool, since Jesus said to follow the laws and to "be perfect", so Jesus must be a fool according to Marcus since Marcus is following Paul's perverted version of Christianity that states you are under the power of sin and have no free will. Even the great Christian philosopher Pelagius understood Paul's version of Christianity led to "moral laxity." It is my guess that Jesus would NOT be pleased.

To illustrate how deep this perversion runs, another Christian posted this comment on this same post. I claimed in my post, and maintain that we CAN do what is right. Keeping in line with Marcus and the Pauline version of Christianity, the following Christian commenter wrote :

" I'm sure it's a nice thought to take responsibility for your own actions, but whether you live like a saint or a devil it won't matter in the slightest."

This illustrates the fact, that as a Christian, doing good or doing bad has NO RELEVANCE--for as the commenter said, that "doesn't matter" I guess because since they believe in Jesus they believe you will be rewarded with heaven, or, as Marcus stated, hell is "taken off the table" anyway, and thus, whether Christians are a saints or a devils, it makes no difference!

Both Marcus and the Christian commenter above represent the Christian position I set out in my post, and as I argued, it is this Christian position that leads to "moral laxity" Now, the difference between me and them is that I take being a "saint" as opposed to being a "devil" as VERY serious. Which is why I live a "saintly" life. And by saintly, I mean I do not commit adultery, murder, torture young children, and so forth--I take responsibility for my actions, and I am not looking for some loophole or reward for any bad behavior.

"What does it matter whether you are a saint or a devil?" Christians should ask that question to all the little girls, boys, and young women who are abused and exploited by "devils" in our society. What a silly and absurd position Christians hold--a silly position that leads people to do EVIL things.