flyingirish04 wrote:I just looked it up. IF you have a valid CCL or reciprocal CCL, there is not a single law that precludes you from carrying a loaded, chambered weapon.

I realize that, but what I am saying is response to this post:

The Keymaster wrote:I have been taught in every class I have attended that a firearm without a round in the chamber is not a firearm.

All I meant was just because there isn't a round in the chamber, that does not preclude it from being a firearm.

Personally Key, I agree that a practical CCW should be chambered. But far be it from me to denounce anyone else's educated opinion about it. All we can do is provide the facts & hope other people learn.

Also, ask any idiot who was "sure" the gun wasn't loaded & it "just went off" - it's still a firearm :laugh:

I get ya. Sorry.

As far as it 'just went off', it is almost always a negligent pull of the trigger. I say almost, because I had an experience of a faulty firing spring pin leaving the pin out, and when the slide went forward to chamber a round, it fired the weapon. That being said, no one was injured because I alway have a weapon pointed down range and in a safe direction when letting the slide forward or chambering a round.

Cyberfly wrote:Uhh, panzer, I think comparing U.S. CCW to Israeli citizens is a bit different. Doesn't EVERYBODY in Israel carry concealed? Teachers, mailmen, rabbis,...everybody? So...regardless of whether there is a round in the chamber or not, SOMEBODY is gonna take that bomber out.

Going after "a bomber or terrorist" is different than having someone within 10-15 from you. I would hazard a guess that plenty of innocent "armed" israelis have been killed before they could lock and load..Just because they carry like that doens't mean someone had seen something and been unable to react it time.

Cyberfly wrote:Uhh, panzer, I think comparing U.S. CCW to Israeli citizens is a bit different. Doesn't EVERYBODY in Israel carry concealed? Teachers, mailmen, rabbis,...everybody? So...regardless of whether there is a round in the chamber or not, SOMEBODY is gonna take that bomber out.

No they open carry more then they CCW.

oh yes, now picture that on a topless beach at Eilat, Israel :drool:
(oh I thank the guy who invented mirror sunglasses )

(the funny part was me asking how they don't get a tan line from the strap)

Cyberfly wrote:Uhh, panzer, I think comparing U.S. CCW to Israeli citizens is a bit different. Doesn't EVERYBODY in Israel carry concealed? Teachers, mailmen, rabbis,...everybody? So...regardless of whether there is a round in the chamber or not, SOMEBODY is gonna take that bomber out.

No they open carry more then they CCW.

oh yes, now picture that on a topless beach at Eilat, Israel :drool:
(oh I thank the guy who invented mirror sunglasses )

(the funny part was me asking how they don't get a tan line from the strap)

Carrying a gun is preparing for a once in a lifetime event, and people who carry without a round in the chamber are giving the bad guy an advantage. In a deadly force situation, I'll be using my left arm to defend myself and not to rack my gun. Trying to find something to catch your slide on to chamber a round while you're fighting with an armed subject? Ridiculous.

http://bearingarms.com/empty-chamber-ca ... n=baupdate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The link is an article about empty chamber carry, its origins & use even today; mostly about why it's a bad idea.
Saw this gem about the US & Israeli military carrying with an empty chamber:

Israeli military leaders want their troop carrying handguns with an empty chamber for the same reason American commanders do: derp is a universal problem.

:laugh: (BTW, author was speaking about the people who have not had special training)

There's also "virtual shooting simulator" video on the page.

If this happened at my house, I'd have my hand on my gun. But in a public area like a parking lot, I don't know that I would have done that - until now.

I've always carried with one in the chamber. I agree with that I would not want to take the time to chamber a round in an emergency situation. And with a semi, I like the idea of an additional round of ammo. And personally, I could not imagine giving up a chamber on a revolver simple to not be resting on a live round. Of course, with all that said, it is important to have very good discipline and training to mitigate the risks of one in the pipe. As far as a mechanical failure of the safeties are concerned, with as much liability and lawyers involved at the manufacturers, I bet any such failures are ultra-rare.