GoodMike:
and if you try and push too much water through them, they are loud :p

StructureGuy:
Does anyone ever hook up multiple tanks to a single big sump?

GoodMike:
I have Structure

RustyNut:
Yes Structure.... itís popular

Jcushing:
a lot of fish stores are set up like that

Glaive:
I would consider it for a rack of tang dwarf tanks Kevin

GoodMike:
if you have fish that need the same water requirement for breeding, a
breeding rack with a common sump works well. you can mess with the
water for all of them at the same time, makes water changes easy, and
gives you a much larger volume

StructureGuy:
No concerns of one disease shared by all?

GoodMike:
quarantine them first ;)

Glaive:
That is a very big concern Kevin, in such an instance quarantine time
is a must

RustyNut:
OK moving on

RustyNut:
A bio tower is a container used to hold your bio media. Bio media can
be almost anything from crushed lava rocks, to plastic army men or
even the plastic pot scrubbers!

RustyNut:
Bioballs are a media designed specifically for wet/dry applications
and they offer very good performance with very little maintenance.

RustyNut:
Many types of plastics are slippery and do not allow the beneficial
bacteria to gain good footing on the media and as a result can take
much longer to colonize that more porous medias.

RustyNut:
However more porous media has a tendency to clogs more easily and
which is why biological medias intended for submerged usage such as
sintered glass are not a good choice.

RustyNut:
If I may move back to the overflows....

Jeff
F.: Is this not where hydro flowed systems gain advantage with
sponge filters?

RustyNut:

RustyNut:
There are a few types

RustyNut:
In the illustration, the top view (and side view) shows a HOB style
overflow

Jcushing:
here are pics of mine installed in a tank....

Jcushing:

RustyNut:
The bottom (and side) view show a built in reef ready system

Jcushing:

RustyNut:
Thanks J

Glaive:

RustyNut:
Now in the Bio tower illustration

RustyNut:
You can see how the media is layered inside the tower

Jeff
F.: What about the people building systems of many tanks

RustyNut:
At the top would be a spray bar or a drip plate to disperse the water

RustyNut:
Yes Jeff?

Jcushing:
hereĎs my spray bar

Jeff
F.: For contamination Rusty?

Glaive:
modified image

Jcushing:

Jcushing:
it certainly could be done nicer, but it is effective

GoodMike:
if you want to use a central system, make sure you donít put
anything in it that hasnít been through a thorough quarantine
process...

Jcushing:

spray bar in action

GoodMike:
that will keep disease/contamination down. donít use any nets, or
equip from any other tank

GoodMike:
and it never hurts to run a UV on the system too *See End for UV
side notes

RustyNut:
When we put the sump and the biotower together we have a wet/dry
filter

RustyNut:

Jeff
F.: Rusty, you keep posting this but it means nothing to those of
us who are not familiar with these systems. Any clarity?

Jcushing:
clarity in what

Jeff
F.: This diagram would work if it said which things were which in
the diagram and what they were doing Just my opinion.

Jcushing:
water in the tank spills into, or is siphoned off into the standpipe,
which drains the water down to the sump

Jcushing:
there it is sprayed onto the bio tower

Jcushing:
mechanical is first, going from coarse to fine, then onto the bio
media

RustyNut:
OK Jeff

RustyNut:
Hold on J

RustyNut:
Jeff you mean you donít understand the flow of the system?

StructureGuy:
Jeff. The sump is below the tank. Water is pumped from the sump into
the tank. The water level in the tank is always the same as the level
of the overflow. The water goes back into the sump by gravity.

RustyNut:
OK letís try this

RustyNut:
Turn off the pumps

RustyNut:
Now you have an aquarium full of water to the height of the standpipe

RustyNut:
and you have a sump full of water as well

ZK1975:
provided the return pipe isnít below standpipe level :P

RustyNut:
Zk that makes no sense

Jcushing:
he means a siphon will start with the pump off

RustyNut:
OK

Jcushing:
if its low enough

Jcushing:
assuming it wont....

RustyNut:
OK we start the pump

RustyNut:
and water from the sump is pump up into the aquarium above

RustyNut:
raising the level of the water in the aquarium above the standpipe
height

RustyNut:
This causing the excess water to then drain down the standpipe back
into the sump

RustyNut:
if you placed a pipe in the drain that stood to the 18Ē high the
water would get 18Ē deep before flowing into the pipe....

RustyNut:
in an aquarium the standpipe is the height of your tank rim

ZK1975:
yeah, HOBís have a siphon.. why else the flushing sound when water
is drained below intake :)

RustyNut:
so the water cannot get higher than the that

Jcushing:
in a HOB overflow, the standpipe is run externally, the siphon is
only there to get the water to it. it siphons the water from the tank
to a separate chamber. the top of the stand pipe in the overflow is
still the lowest point the water will drain down to.

StructureGuy:
I think it would be cool if Alex made an mpeg of this for the site.

Glaive:
I canít create an animated gif or movie quickly enough for this
chat, but I think it would be a good idea in the long run

Jcushing:

StructureGuy:
Oh, I got it. (The siphon thing.)

Jcushing:
from that picture you can see the U tube provides the siphon from the
tank to the external box...

Ironmahn:
Jcushing - So are you saying that you want the top of the overflow
collecting container just level with the underside of the rim of the
aquarium?

Jcushing:
it maintains the water level between the aquarium and the HOB portion

Jcushing:
the water will only drain down to a certain point... once the water
level drops enough, itís lower than the height of the slots in the
internal box

Jcushing:
no more water can siphon, the siphon isnít broken at this point, it
simply stops, as soon as the water level goes up in the aquarium, the
siphon continues

Jcushing:
(as long as the drain pipe is higher than the bottom of the U tube in
the external box)

Jcushing:
does that make sense to everyone?

Jcushing:
the only thing that will ďbreakĒ the siphon is if air gets in the
U tube

ZK1975:
U tube must have water level above U tube openings in both the inside
and outside boxes or else!

ZK1975:
anyone here have a better way of getting water in the U tube without
running an airline in and sucking out the air and replacing it with
water from the overflows?

RustyNut:
ZK, itís clearer to say that the U-tube ends must both be well
submerged to prevent loss of siphon

Jcushing:
the U tube ends must be almost at the bottom of both chambers, with
the stand pipe height being higher than that

Jeff
F.: The picture provided shows an EMPTY tube!

Jcushing:
I suck the air out with airline tubing

Jcushing:
to get the siphon going

ZK1975:
me too..

RustyNut:
You can drill a small hole and glue a one way air valve in as well

Jeff
F.: Like I said, Just trying to clarify for others in the chat
since this is our best turnout yet!

Jcushing:
if you want to setup a refugium itís a good idea to keep the fish
out of the pump section with a screen somehow

RustyNut:
OK late note

RustyNut:
Power failure safety

RustyNut:
In order to know you do not have too much water in your sump the pump
should be turned off when you fill it. IF you fill the tank while
running the lines and overflow and such will hold enough water that
you could possibly overspill the sump when the power fails...

RustyNut:
remember the excess water that was pumped up into the tank must
settle back down into the sump and be able to fit within its volume.

Jcushing:
also like it was touched on earlier if the pump fails/looses power,
the return plumbing can act like a siphon... drilling a few small
holes just below the water level will break the siphon is the water
level drops

ZK1975:
a mock power failure is a good idea :)

RustyNut:
This is why a sump size of at least 20% the volume of the tank should
always be used

Jcushing:
yes unplug the pump, make sure the sump can handle the extra water
volume, then block the overflow/standpipe, and make sure the pump
runs dry before the top of the tank overflows

Jcushing:
I like to mark the absolute highest water height in the sump

geotlyrae:
What if you not home??

RustyNut:
It just flows back into the sump to the height you filled it to with
the power off

ZK1975:
if youíre not home and you didnít pre-check to make sure sump
levels were fine... u risk a flood of excess water :)

Jcushing:
you test first GEO, so that way you know itís safe if it does
happen

Jcushing:
like I said, mark the highest level the sump can have, and donít go
over that

Jcushing:
the water level in the tank will not drop, only the height in the
sump

ZK1975:
a routine check also of siphon break holes, or potential overflow
pipe blockages is also a good idea

RustyNut:
ZK, with the pump well that shouldnít be a problem ever

Jcushing:
so questions?

hefe:
cool, so if these are set up correctly thereís no way it could
drain your whole tank all over the floor?

RustyNut:
correct

hefe:
at what size tank does it make sense to use a sump vs. canister etc?

RustyNut:
They are just as safe as any canister or HOB, but require more
knowledge to operate

ZK1975:
yeah if you do everything properly and things work as they should..
you wonít flood anything.

hefe:
I know thereís more bio filtration in a sump potentially anyway

RustyNut:
I would say 6ft tanks and larger will benefit more from the w/d sump
than the cost of canister(s)

Jcushing:
hefe to touch on safety, thatís where properly sizing the sump
comes in

RustyNut:
There is also a HUGE oxygenation benefit

ZK1975:
nothings 100%, though. Canít say a sump will NEVER overflow

RustyNut:
Canít say a canister will never leak

Jcushing:
sure, but its no more likely then a seal on a canister going

ZK1975:
Right

ZK1975:
itís rare, but wouldnít want someone thinking itís fool proof

RustyNut:
true enough

geotlyrae:
Iím looking at a 6ft corner flow.. So I believe a sump is the only
way to go..

Glaive:
Filtration is kind of complicated, the reason you can get by with
lower flows on wet dry sumps is because all of the water that passes
through gets in contact with the media

Jcushing:
I had a cascade 1500 with a penguin 330 and 350. replaced the 2 HOBís
with the sump

Glaive:
If that is your line of thought AF I would just consider 900gph+ of
sump

Jcushing:
you could upgrade a 600gph sump to a 900-1200 gph sump for very
little

AulonocaraFreak:
I had a Penguin 350 that got replaced with a Rena xp2 :)

RustyNut:
the bacteria have access to so much more O2 it allows them to
detoxify at maximum capacity

Glaive:
another usage I think we missed on the sump was a place to store
seeded sponge filters

Jeff
F.: I stock my cascade properly and itís very effective

RustyNut:
?in a sump........

Jeff
F.: very

RustyNut:
True Glaive

Glaive:
sure why not Mr. Nut, they are out of sight and even sitting in a
center chamber would contain enough bacteria to jump start a fry or
hospital tank

RustyNut:
itís a great place to keep your sponge filters for emergencies

Glaive:
ahh missed where your Q was directed

Glaive:
or a few extra biowheels

RustyNut:
I think concludes our little sump chat

*UV
Side Discussion

AulonocaraFreak:
how do you guys feel about UV Sterilizers?

Glaive:
I do not like them

Glaive:
I consider them a waste of money

RustyNut:
part time use only

Pam
Chin: I donít think you want a UV system on your fish tanks.

why_spyder:
UV would kill of good and bad bacteria, right?

GoodMike:
Pam, they are awesome

RustyNut:
Mike, UV has its uses but should not be used constantly

Pam
Chin: Mike, I think you are wrong, if you have a wholesale house
and you are moving fish in and out that is one thing, but if you have
a UV system on bank of tanks you are asking for trouble your fish are
not going to live in anyone elseís tanks.

GoodMike:
I didnít say to run it constantly ;)

RustyNut:
What Pam means, is that an untested immune system is worthless

GoodMike:
in a wholesale/retail situation it helps keep spread from tanks. In a
home situation, if you do have an outbreak of something, it helps
reduce the damage to turn it on