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View Poll Results: Do you think JOB saved the Pacers for moving to Las Vegas or Seattle?

Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

OK so I'm bringing up this question because I have seen a lot of people telling me that the "non tanking seasons" (under JOB) kept the Pacers in Indiana, do you think JOB saved the Pacers stay in Indiana with his last season winning runs instead of winning 10 games a year?

Note that I know some people are going to say Larry Bird but as we know Larry was hands off regarding who to play leaving the decision in JOB's hands.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

JOB just about ran off what fans were left after the brawl, off court trouble, shootings etc..

I know long time ticket holders that JOB ran off that had stayed loyal after all the trouble, I was almost one of them. I was at the end of the rope, hadn't been to a game in 2 months and was just about to call it quits, when they finely fired his worthless @ss.

I give him NO credit for anything except delaying the development of the team a few years. The "undesirable" players were shipped out, any coach brought in would have changed the culture.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

The Pacers were never going to leave, and JOB certainly had absolutely nothing to do with them staying here. If anything those teams would have been better without him.

I agree that they were never going to leave, the question that I'm asking is to the people that keep telling me that "tanking" would have moved the Pacers to another city, the "non tanking" was done by JOB, so if "non tanking" kept the Pacers in Indiana does that mean that JOB is the Indiana Pacers savior? should Pacers fans give some credit to JOB for helping keep the Pacers here?

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

Tanking or not, the casuals and most just weren't interested in the product on the floor. I don't think there would have been much of a difference attendance wise if the team won 20 games or the 30-something we were winning under O'Brien. So, ultimately... No, Obie didn't help the team stick around. They'd still be here!

As for tanking in general... We all know about the success stories of Cleveland tanking and the Clippers with Blake Griffin, but no one ever brings up how many extremely high lottery picks that the Clippers (before Griffin), Washington, Milwaukee or Minnesota has had with minimal success in the regular season or play-offs.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

I agree that they were never going to leave, the question that I'm asking is to the people that keep telling me that "tanking" would have moved the Pacers to another city, the "non tanking" was done by JOB, so if "non tanking" kept the Pacers in Indiana does that mean that JOB is the Indiana Pacers savior? should Pacers fans give some credit to JOB for helping keep the Pacers here?

I don't buy the idea that tanking would have made any difference with the fan base. They sucked, sucking a little more would not have mattered, IMO.

I think you under estimate the large group of fans that wanted the young guys to play regardless. Some thought that would be tanking. Some thought we would win more games, growing pains and all, I was in that group.

Some thought just having JOB in charge was tanking.

Personally I'm not opposed to tanking depending on the situation. We should have tanked at the end of the season JOB's 2nd and 3rd season. The season Vogel took over we did the right thing going for that 8th spot.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

Sure, he helped the Pacers stay in Indy.....

By being fired when he was. Just from little bits and pieces I've heard, I've think his ouster was partially forced by fans en masse saying they were not going to renew their season tickets unless he was fired.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

Ummm tanking isn't a coaching decision. It comes from upstairs. As a coach, your job is to win games. So I don't see how JOB is keeping the Pacers in town or not. Sure Larry may not have said, hey play this guy more or less. But he didn't say, hey we are gonna tank. JOB just did his job.

Aside from the fact that I don't think the Pacers were ever going to move, I just don't see how JOB, just by coaching, kept the team in Indiana.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

I want to try and define an acceptable form of tanking. It's sound and logical for a franchise to face reality and say "hey, we stink, time to jettison every asset and rebuild." I can support and probably encourage that stance. But I can absolutely not support not playing your best players, putting them in situations to fail (out of position, roles they absolutely cannot fill, that stuff).

I'm fine with a front office putting a bad team on the floor in the hopes of drafting a superstar. I'm disgusted by a mediocre team just not playing to win.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

I don't buy the idea that tanking would have made any difference with the fan base. They sucked, sucking a little more would not have mattered, IMO.

I think you under estimate the large group of fans that wanted the young guys to play regardless. Some thought that would be tanking. Some thought we would win more games, growing pains and all, I was in that group.

Some thought just having JOB in charge was tanking.

Personally I'm not opposed to tanking depending on the situation. We should have tanked at the end of the season JOB's 2nd and 3rd season. The season Vogel took over we did the right thing going for that 8th spot.

The problem is "young guys" primarily consisted of Josh mcroberts with a side of AJ Price. Roy kept himself off the floor with foul trouble and Asthma as a rookie. PG only played for him for half a season. Most the fans don't even like Tyler anymore so there really wasn't young talent ,at least not that was relevant to this organizations future, on the roster.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

The response seems to always be, "well, you didn't risk messing up the whole season so you are clearly satisfied with being competitive and being the 'under dog'. Wouldn't it be better to spend 5 years winning 10 games a year and finally win the lottery and get the superstar so the Las Vegas Pacers will be champions? After all, that's the ONLY WAY to win!"

Here is an example post to those that don't know what I'm talking about.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

Where's the he-- no option?! I understand the concept of the question but I think other cosches could have led us to 9th place finishes also. The last two years of the JOB era was downright atrocious to watch/enjoy as a fan.

I don't think JOB is as bad of a coach as he seemed to be here, but he should never work with a team that's trying to rebuild with younger talent.

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

Here is an example post to those that don't know what I'm talking about.

The point wasn't that not tanking "saved" the franchise. The point was that the most common recent "success story" being OKC is tainted by the fact that they moved once they hit their goal.

Think about this - had Chicago not won the lottery from the 10th position to get DRose, how many more years would they have had to suck before getting a high pick? Pacers were in nearly as good a position to win the lottery and didn't have the luck to do it. It isn't like within 4 years we were guaranteed to get a pick who would have been a franchise-changer. An injured EJ is still an injured EJ - otherwise, where is the Clippers' ring since they got him?

I'm with Heisenberg. You play the best players you have, you don't bench them so you can essentially lose on purpose. Reboot the team, trade your assets and rebuild from scratch, fine - but I think trading away the only players who had any remaining popularity might well have been the last straw for many fans who were sticking around.

People also forget that during JOB's first year he really was credited with getting the team to play a more exciting up-tempo style than the grind-it-out half-court offense Rick was running. It was really not until nothing particularly improved the second year that his stock started dropping with most fans - and, yes, I am aware that there were people here who hated him from day one, but it was in no way universal.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

Where's the he-- no option?! I understand the concept of the question but I think other cosches could have led us to 9th place finishes also. The last two years of the JOB era was downright atrocious to watch/enjoy as a fan.

I don't think JOB is as bad of a coach as he seemed to be here, but he should never work with a team that's trying to rebuild with younger talent.

He showed that was exactly what he was best at. He showed them discipline and they had to do it his way or walk. He did a great job of rebuilding this team on the run..... ...

Re: Do you think JOB helped the Pacers stay in Indy?

The point wasn't that not tanking "saved" the franchise. The point was that the most common recent "success story" being OKC is tainted by the fact that they moved once they hit their goal.

Think about this - had Chicago not won the lottery from the 10th position to get DRose, how many more years would they have had to suck before getting a high pick? Pacers were in nearly as good a position to win the lottery and didn't have the luck to do it. It isn't like within 4 years we were guaranteed to get a pick who would have been a franchise-changer. An injured EJ is still an injured EJ - otherwise, where is the Clippers' ring since they got him?

I'm with Heisenberg. You play the best players you have, you don't bench them so you can essentially lose on purpose. Reboot the team, trade your assets and rebuild from scratch, fine - but I think trading away the only players who had any remaining popularity might well have been the last straw for many fans who were sticking around.

People also forget that during JOB's first year he really was credited with getting the team to play a more exciting up-tempo style than the grind-it-out half-court offense Rick was running. It was really not until nothing particularly improved the second year that his stock started dropping with most fans - and, yes, I am aware that there were people here who hated him from day one, but it was in no way universal.

So according to you what saved the franchise from moving to Las Vegas? and nope nobody is asking to tank to "win the lottery".