Slouches off couches in ‘Work for the Dole’

In an interview on Q&A Shane Jones said that he wants to get young people off couches and into work, in what he describes as work-for-dole initiatives. He says that Labour supports the concept but not the name.

One of the key aims as Minister of Regional Economic Development is to get regional and rural unemployed into work, but this will presumably require coordination with the Minister of Employment and the Minister for Social Development.

I’m calling it Work for the Dole. It may be the Work Readiness Kaupapa. But I am not going to remain silent any longer while my young ne’er-do-well nephews in Kaikohe and other places fall victims to the gangs and they’re in Disneyland. As far as I’m concerned, that’s not happening any more.

There could be some delicate balancing between providing incentives and pushing unemployed people into Government work schemes, and what some have criticised as a punitive approach to people on benefits.

SHANE I don’t want people on the unemployment benefit. I don’t want to have to rely on Filipinos to plant my pine trees. These people will be made to go-

CORIN But you’re implying they’re going to be forced to work.

SHANE No, no, please. They’ll be made to go to work, and where it is necessary, to pay them.

This could be challenging, given the resistance by some to move significant distances from their couches to work.

The Regional Economic Development Minister announced his proposal in October and says he has held a number of discussions with Labour who are “behind the concept” but admitted they didn’t like the term work-for-the-dole.

“They probably have a slightly different view of the incentives that should be used,” Mr Jones said on TVNZ’s Q+A programme this morning.

CORIN Give me some examples of how it’s going to benefit a young Kiwi in the regions who’s struggling to get a job, who’s in a depressed area. Tell me how it’s going to help.

SHANE I think that’s a bloody good question, actually. If I take, for example, the $10 million that would be needed to really upgrade connectivity from where, say, the new Hawaiki cable’s going to arrive up to Kaitaia. Unless you have connectivity in the Kaitaias of the world, then the firms that are there aren’t going to flourish, and then that provides an incentive for employment to grow. But I will say something that really bothers me immensely. Throughout New Zealand, we’ve got this category of young men and women called NIETs – not in employment or training. It’s a category that data’s collected from the stats department. Nigh on $60,000 was allocated by Steven Joyce, and for reasons I’ve never fully worked out, not a cracker, a brass razoo, was actually spent. Unless we build programmes actually employing these young men, then the ne’er-do-well nephs are going to disappear consistently-

CORIN So this is the Work for the Dole idea which you raised.

SHANE I love the idea, and by Christmas, I am going to have announced at least four projects. I’ve been counselled by my friends in Labour. They don’t like the term Work for the Dole, and it’s probably going to be called Work Ready.

CORIN What is it? Is it actually work for the dole? Are they going to be working and getting an unemployment benefit?

SHANE Mm. I don’t want people on the unemployment benefit. I don’t want to have to rely on Filipinos to plant my pine trees. These people will be made to go-

CORIN But you’re implying they’re going to be forced to work.

SHANE No, no, please. They’ll be made to go to work, and where it is necessary, to pay them. They’ll have to receive a minimum wage, but there will be no more sitting on the couch.

CORIN How do you force them to do it?

SHANE Just wait and see until my four announcements are out.

CORIN No. Without specifics, it’s a big issue to say you’re going to force those NIETs to actually work.

SHANE Well, I’m not the Minister of Social Welfare, but read my lips – I’m sick and tired of watching the ne’er-do-well nephs sitting on the couch doing nothing, and I, as a Maori politician and a Maori leader, I’m not going to tolerate it any longer. I’m one voice in amongst 20 Cabinet ministers, but read my lips – that is the advocacy I’m going to bring.

CORIN How are you going to get it through Cabinet?

SHANE Yes, it’s obviously a mixture of charm and knowledge, but I’m one of 20.

CORIN Have you talked to your Labour colleagues about this and about how you might be able to do it?

SHANE I’ve had a number of discussions, in fairness to my Labour colleagues, and they’re behind the kaupapa, they’re behind the concept. They probably have a slightly different view of the incentives that should be used, but I’d be nothing other than honest if I didn’t say to you that’s the quality of my advocacy.

CORIN Right, so let’s just be clear here. You are going to push a Work for the Dole scheme through Cabinet. You’re going to try.

SHANE I am going to take proposals to Cabinet. I’m calling it Work for the Dole. It may be the Work Readiness Kaupapa. But I am not going to remain silent any longer while my young ne’er-do-well nephews in Kaikohe and other places fall victims to the gangs and they’re in Disneyland. As far as I’m concerned, that’s not happening any more.

110 Comments

PartisanZ

Poor Jonesy, he’s gotta try to appear like a rough’n’tough Rightie, and maybe retain one or two of the KFL, Hobson’s Pledge voters – Alan Titford for instance – while operating within a fairly Progressive Centre-Left Coalition (PCC) …

Gezza

Yup. I love it. He always never quite pulls it off because a word here is not the correct one he meant, or his grammar is screwed up.

I often think he’s secretly trying to emulate Billy T James, but Billy T could actually always pull that sort of eudite bro thing off. Usally because he never tried to play the plummy pom & the slangy bro in the same character at the same time. But the Joneser does.

The Joneser & his nephs will be good to watch. Should be a good series.

Strong For Life

Kitty Catkin

Last time, the Greens kicked up a fuss about it being slave labour.In fact, if the UB and the extra were divided by 20 (it was 20 hours) it was quite a good hourly rate, But the Greens insisted that it was $1 an hour and ignored the amount that WINZ was paying people to do nothing. This cannot be good for anyone-especially the young. It may seem great to a teenager, but for anyone older, it could be soul-destroying.

Kitty Catkin

Don’t be so bloody silly. You are increasingly seeming obsessive and like a stalker. If you don’t believe me, that’s too bad, it won’t change the truth. Mind your own damned business and don’t be so nosy. And stop putting words in people’s mouths. It’s childish and tiresome.

Repeat; my circumstances are none of your business, and prying will not make me reveal them. Believe that I am a superannuitant if you like, I don’t care.

There are burgeoning industries here in Northland (Shane’s own rohe) just begging for ‘development’ awhi … most notably industrial hemp and, in anticipation of re-legalization, cannabis … but also the Arts & culture, environmental, heritage and cultural tourism – along with all tourism – value added food, rongoa products including medical cannabis ones … and the beat goes on … pest control and possum products …

So, as I said last night, get your business plan in to Jonesy … the more uncouthly written the better …. and some derogatory comments about your own whanau should seal the deal …

sorethumb

At Christchurch Airport 2 days ago. 10 busses with Chinese or Korean drivers and one bus and a mini van with a Kiwi driver. That’s the tourist industry.
…….
They all say there is “huge potential for tourism”

Kitty Catkin

Corky

Positive testing of sewage water for ‘P’ means Jones scheme will be going nowhere in Northland.. A hit of P, and mellowing out on the couch, Trumps planting pine trees in the blazing sun for eight hours a day.

Jones scheme does, however, allow rabid leftwing ideologues to tee off and become nasty, as Pati has shown above.

We had full employment til the bankers took over our country. Kick them out and give EVERYBODY a job like we used to have. Give back all our assets and stop picking on so called dole bludgers, taking everybody’s eyes off the real bludgers … the corporations for instance who pay no tax, the property speculators that live offshore, the politicians on perks for life. That would do more to fix our economy than making a few people work for the dole. If you must then just give those people a decent job period.

Gezza

While I personally like some of these ideas & there’s a lot to be said for giving everybody a decent well-paying job for life nobody’s ever really come up yet with a successful way of doing it & making work, & making it economically feasible, when not everbody has the same attitudes, skills, abilities, commitment, wants, needs, intentions, priorities, drive, & agreement on how much of their income they should surrender to pay for someone else’s pleasures. Also, there’ll always be those who prefer to, say, make a fortune manufacturuing & selling addictive substances like P & creating a market for the earnings of those who want to indulge.

Gezza

Your 2nd two paras there. Well, no it’s not. I think those are false eqiuvalences.

It’s just a question from seeking to establish whether you’re trying to advocate changes to how the world runs to the that would really best suit you, personally, but that might not suit lots of others.

I certainly think neoloberalism & free markets are insufficient & in many ways bad for a democratic society. Capitalism, less so. They all have to be regulated & their excesses prevented.

And so, while I’m open to a good argument, I’m all for giving alternative options of governance a try if I think they’re a workable proposition, I like to see where they’ve been shown to be a workable proposition. Or where they are so clearly broadly beneficial & the ideas so well thought out & costed, & explained, that they have attracted strong & intelligent support from large numbers of people.

I’m still waiting for this to happen. You know, the unstoppable worldwide change, the thousand years of peace & goodwill & plenty whose time has come. Like democracy once seemed to be. It looks at the moment to me still like that’s going to have to await the Second Coming, when, the Christian Fundamentalists assure us, it will be forced on us all for by the wise & benevolent Son of God.

PartisanZ

Well, okay … I myself and Professor Janine Hayward (no doubt among many others) believe that “an alternative option of governance” was co-created by agreement between Rangatira and The Crown on 5 & 6 February 1840 at Waitangi …

Ah but we did have that 🙂 In my youth we all had jobs, all housed, no child poverty, youth suicide & all the rest that goes along with neo lib economics. So yes it can be done & has been proven. I get your point & the point of the article, but looking at the bigger picture how did we get to this place? We need to go back & fix that first. Neo lib doesn’t work & it only benefits a tiny %. Unemployment is the result & these new schemes have the effect of blaming those at the bottom of the pile so to speak for the predicament our country is in. My 2c worth anyway.

Gezza

I agree with you about neo-lib economics Pam. Actually we had about 3% unemployment. It didn’t vary much. My old man was an employment officer. His job was to find jobs with employers for the few jobless in his region. A few of them continually jacked it in *sick*, because the surfing was excellent in Summer in my rohe!

But there were also other factors that contributed to the general well-being of society back then too.

One of them, off the top of my head, was that couples got married, & took personal responsibility for teaching sound values & community spirit to their children. Everybody did. Your kids misbehaved, the neigbours gave them a tongue lashing & reported them to your olds. They handled it. Your olds told you nobody owed you a living & to get a job & better yourself.

Another factor was there were a lot fewer expensive toys, diversions, & drugs available, although that rapidly changed when we got into new stuff in a BIG way.

High Flying Duck

There were also thousands of Government subsidised make-work jobs which were “work for the dole” done in a less explicit manner.
This was coupled with high prices, protectionism and growing deficits that almost bankrupted the country.
Other than that, it was a utopian paradise alright.

Gezza

PDB

The DPB – introduced by Norman Kirk in 1973 was the start of the NZ govt’s issues (that still remain today and have been greatly expanded) with welfare dependency, fathers dodging responsibility for their children, and a welfare culture being formed in this country.

Gezza

Gezza

Yes, truth what you say. There are always those who will abuse the system. Fact. Still there’s no denying our country’s been raped & pillaged by the rich & it’s suffering. It just gets right up my nose when they roll out this old tried & true poke at the poor when the rich get off scot free. It’s purely a smoke screen taking the eyes of the gullible off the real problem. IMO the true couch slouchers are the John Keys of this world. And see the imbalance in who is charged for benefit fraud as against white collar fraud. Very telling.

NZ of today is a classic mixed economy, not a neo-liberal one. In fact by world standards it sits easily on the socialist side of the dividing line. Therefore the issues we do face are more likely due to our many socialist policies, not the so-called ‘neo liberal’ ones.

The current push from the left to have obligation-free benefits will only worsen the problem.

Kitty Catkin

Kitty Catkin

As there were many babies adopted out before the DPB, it’s obvious that not everyone did marry and look after their children. Some people I knew had two adopted daughters and had no trouble adopting them; an elderly nighbours had an adopted son. I know of quite a few adopted ‘children’ who are now middle-aged.

If people had imbued their children with good values, surely those children would have carried on the good work.

Pam, it’s highly unlikely that John Key made his money or became PM by sitting on his bum, contrary to what the envious who have not his brains, work ethic or ability would like to think. He began life in a state house as the child of a mother who was widowed at a young age.

My stepfather began life in a back street in the UK, one of a large family whose mother was widowed when the father-a railway worker-died. He began work as a linesman, came to NZ, began a small business and built it up. He said that one day he’d be employing 100 men, and he went above this number. He didn’t make as much money as the John Keys of the world, but he ended up a rich man with 9 entries in the Business Who’s Who.

My question remains: Will subsidizing established businesses, forest and farm, and regional transport infrastructure – which government ought to provide or maintain anyhow – really provide long-term, sustainable, empowering, satisfying employment for as many people as possible … ongoing …

If it doesn’t, it ain’t really regional development, which Labour-led Jonesy is conflating with ‘Ready for Work’, not me …

PartisanZ

These “couch slouchers” in-the-making from Jonsey’s own rohe have come up with a fabulous idea for his ‘Work for the Dole’ scheme he’s struggling to call ‘Ready for Work’ … I guess the latter lacks a derogatory element?

And they’re only tackling Tradescantia! There’s dozens of noxious weeds in Northland alone worthy of this treatment – privet, tobacco-weed, lantana – and the effects would be multiple. Privet could also be a firewood industry … large tobacco-weed too … tourism will benefit from ‘native only’ roadsides … all sorts a good stuff …

I’ll send Jonesy’s Office this article today … accompanied by an uncouth cover letter … That should get it looked at quicker …

Gezza

sorethumb

I think Jones is partly right but you have to consider the human psychi and why motivates us and why we fail. You can’t compare a motivated worker with a non motivated until you know what’s going on in their heads. New Zealand is now more expensive than japan and pay rates are piddling. You have people getting somewhere in life looking down on those who never will.
And you have holier than thou’s and libertarinas (Daivid farrar) promoting immigration/globalisation so that living standards for a large chunk of the population are being forced down – in line with ecological principles (resource:population ratios)

PartisanZ

duperez

The problems are complex. Jones (probably like any politician) wants the solutions, wants them to be ‘quick fixes’ and most importantly wants the perception to be created that there are quick fixes that will be sustainable.

The easy lines like ‘slouches off couches’ and ‘work for the dole’ are like fancy decorations on the front on a building. You open the door below those beaming signs hopes and what’s inside is deep and dark.

Flicking a switch isn’t going to do it. Isn’t going to do it for the inmates and isn’t going to do it for the expectant onlookers, the demanding who think it’s as easy as flicking the switch and that’s all that needs to be done for things to be good.

Back to PartisanZ mentioning kicking the shit out of Kaikohe. I’ve written about that area a couple of times this year.

When we were kids in that district most homes had someone who got out of bed every morning and went to work. Kids went to school with the expectation that when they finished school they would get a job. That’s what you did, that was the pattern of life to be repeated. That might mean going to the big smoke of Whangarei or Auckland. So they, we, ‘got jobs’, went to work or went to tertiary education which led to jobs.

We got jobs, hooked up with partners and we both got up every morning and went to work. Money worked for, money earned, money for living. And our kids went to school, an established pattern of living destined to be sustained by being repeated.

It’s very easy for us to say “the bastards should get jobs and shouldn’t be getting money for nothing.” How nice to think of the ‘layabouts’, the latest of generations living lives so different than those in the ordered, ordinary, pattern would suddenly spring out of bed to head off to work.

Something at least seems to be about to be done. In a sense a switch is going to be flicked but it’s not going to be magic. Hopefully the flippancy and turn of phrase of Shane Jones are surpassed by substance and grit. Extra-ordinary existences demand the latter.

Gezza

PartisanZ

Let’s hope the substance of Jonesy’s grit is surpassed by schemes that give these youngsters the same respect any youth should get; that they have the potential to be unique, original, eclectic, creative, collaborative business entreprenuers, social enterprisers and community volunteers the equal of any.

That their ‘working lives’ do not need to be confined to planting trees forestry companies (including incorporations) should themselves pay people to plant, do riparian planting farmers should do themselves or pay people to do, or build railways government should have maintained or provided as a matter of course …

PartisanZ

Zedd

I heard Jacinda say that Lab. support the idea, but not the name ‘work for the dole’. She said ‘yes, lets get the young people to work, but not pay them the dole hourly rate.. but pay a decent wage’ for the work they do. (paraphrase) BUT I think the focus needs to be on education & training, to upskill them ready for work.. not just yell “GET BACK TO WORK !”

The whole policy of ‘leave it to the markets’ as was championed for 9 loooong years under Natz. did not work; eg zero-hour contracts, minimum & low wage, for most workers & the widening gap between rich & poor, just getting wider.

Any other option, designed to get the young folks ‘off the couch’ & into work has to be better for the economy & the country !

methinks the right-wing media are just trying to create ‘division’ between Lab/NZF/Grns.. where really none exists (yet) 🙂

Gezza

Gezza

Except it’s just “the media”. There’s not really much of a left/right divide when it comes to the msm continually stirring the pot to create headlines & stuff for their bimbos to breathlessly report on with faux serious expressions & terrible accents.

PartisanZ

I don’t think there is a Left-Wing and Right-Wing mainstream media so much nowadays Zedd.

In order to compete with the politically polarized social media, e-media and blogosphere … there’s mostly just a pack of dialectic-addicted, sense-murdering, salivating whore-wolves baying for blood, ready to tear apart anything and anyone from any camp because ‘blood & gore’, body-count and scandal, sells momentary attention to their ‘sites’ … what used to be called ‘ratings’ … enough to keep existing or win new advertisers …

It’s a bit like housing really … or commodified ‘work’ … its just a ‘market’ …

Gezza

PartisanZ

Gezza

I dunno. Did you picture
stirring a big cauldron of steaming bullshit, & Katie burbling on blondely & breathlessly in a jacket that’s too small for her superstructure to be done up about something totally pointless & uninteresting, like I did?

PartisanZ

And then he says, “Welfare is a two-way street. We simply cannot hand out money for nothing the way we do”.

You mean a two way street like ‘Ready for Work’ Mike?

Really he thinks “It is a sensible solid and good idea, and Shane Jones should hold his coalition snowflakes to account … You (NEETs) [the “Nephs”] might develop an appetite for work. You might find the inspiration and dignity that comes with work”.

PartisanZ

Gezza

I think you only bet or wager on a win / lose situation if you SAY you bet on it (the slang or colloquial meaning) or if you place a stake on it (the classical, true definition of a bet or wager).

It seems to me you might actually be describing a Partibet and/or a Partiwager.

But I’ve frankly lost all interest where the heck you’re going with this & and why on earth you’re bothering? All I did was point out there’s already a valid word in the dictionaries – “evidentially” – that already covers the meaning of your new word – “evidencially” – & I’m quite happy to leave it here as the rest seems to be a waste of time.

I’m reasonably confident the word “evidentially” continue to get more regular use in the English-speaking world than yours. Although I wish you all the best with getting it added to The Oxford & orher dictionaries.

PartisanZ

On the subject of evidence, I take it there was nothing other than the correct spelling and usage of the word “evidentially” you deem worthy of addressing in my original comment?

For instance, how many NEETs are there? And what evidence exists?

Here’s Labour – ““Under National, the number of 15-24 year olds who are not in education, employment or training (NEET) has spiralled to more than 90,000, a 50 per cent increase since National came to office”

Gezza

On the subject of evidence, I take it there was nothing other than the correct spelling and usage of the word “evidentially” you deem worthy of addressing in my original comment?

Well there might have been. But, apart from Blazer & Corky, & maybe nowadays Robert, I just don’t like to see someone make a fool of themselves unnecessarily, so I just wanted to point out that a word already exists with meaning & the purpose for which you thought you’d just invented a completely new but unnecessary Partiword.

(That’s my new word, by the way – do you like it? It comes with a neutral tag. I attach no negative meaning to it. It just means: “a new word, invented by PartisanZ, to describe something that doesn’t already have a descriptive word”.)

I would have left it there & probably gone back to look at your substantive post – but a quick scroll up will show you why that didn’t happen. You just kept arguing & banging on & I just kept having to correct you. I’m in a hot tub at the moment & the iPad’s running down. I don’t like to charge it up while I’m posting.I’m sure the last thing anyone wants is for me to have unfortunate experience with live current. I might get back to your post above later.

They hand out money to corporations for free. No tax for them. They hand out our water for close to free to the Chinese & whoever else wants it. Didn’t Judith Collins co. pillage the Northland swamp kauri to the Chinese when it could’ve been left here for local artisans’ employment.

PartisanZ

When the NEETs are all gainfully employed, circulating their “at least minimum wage” dollars throughout the ‘lesser’ economy, personally satisfied and happy, and behaving in a socially responsible manner … WHO THE HELL ARE THE RIGHTIES GOING TO KICK AROUND!!!