Re: In regards to my giving up on programming?

From: Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:36:50 -0600

dropbox is different from gmail, which does allow for executables, if you get
clever and rename it to .txt. :)
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean
On Jul 7, 2010, at 8:34 AM, Alex Midence wrote:
> Hi, Jes,
>
> Thanks for the offer. Don't worry about it, though. Someone on this
> list was kind enough to post a link to where I can obtain it.
> Besides, I don't believe gmail allows for .exe files to be sent,
> more's the pity. Your generous offer is very much appreciated though.
>
> Good luck on your programs. Looks like you and me are slogging
> through the same mirasse. I've actually chosen Eclipse as my IDE to
> learn for now too. I think I'll use vc++ as my secondary one since
> it's important to know if if you ever intend to do any serious
> developing in windows. Looks like all the schools teach it.
> Planning on enrolling in an honest-to-god college course for the stuff
> in the upcoming fall semester if the Lord says the same and, I'm sure
> they'll be wanting to use it. Hope they're not stuck on using 2010
> though. It's a beat down. Screen readers send it into shock.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Alex m
>
> On 7/7/10, Jes <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Alex wrote:
>> "You can't get visual studio 2008 any more. I tried. "
>>> Alex, If you are looking for v s express 2008 edition, I have a copy.
>>> Drop box it to you?
>> On Jul 6, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
>>
>>> You can't get visual studio 2008 any more. I tried. They've come out
>>> with 2010 now and I can't find a download link to a 2008 version.
>>> 2010, I found out this weekend, has a bug which aMS claims to have
>>> fixed but doesn't seem to have in truth. It uses uia (user interface
>>> automation) and apparently knows when you are using ascreen reader.
>>> Thing is, it crashes on you when this is activated. Something to do
>>> with intelisense. There's a patch you can download for it but, mine
>>> said the error didn't apply. Go figure. Crashed like crazy till I
>>> told it not to automate visual settings (deactivated uia). Worked
>>> without crashing then but navigation with Jaws was a pain. So if
>>> anyone is going to buy the professional version of 2010 or will
>>> upgrade, "caviat emptor!" Buyer beware.
>>>
>>> Alex m
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/5/10, Dave <davidct1209@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for posting that Jamal.
>>>>
>>>> I think a better title for the article would have been "Does Visual
>>>> Studio and .Net Rot the Mind?". I, personally, love .Net + Visual
>>>> studio as you can write a Windows app at break neck speed and the
>>>> process of building/running is lightning fast.
>>>>
>>>> However, for new comers, I can see why Petzold seemed so hesitant to
>>>> write a guide to winforms as opposed to full on development. I can
>>>> see how easy it would have been to drag a few controls around and even
>>>> adding a few event handlers to an app would have yielded a sense of
>>>> accomplishment, but if anything ever went wrong or if I was actually
>>>> serious about doing professional development that would have been a
>>>> hinderence. It's somewhat revealing to see that even Microsoft hasn't
>>>> adopted .Net for its serious revenue generating applications (Office,
>>>> IE, Windows, etc.). For that matter, most screen readers use
>>>> win32/C++/MFC/COM. .Net allows programmers to remain oblivious of
>>>> core Windows concepts as it does all of the heavy lifting, so that
>>>> when things go wrong, you have no idea what happened or even where to
>>>> start looking. It also skirts around the pure joy of designing or
>>>> seeing core algorithms implemented.
>>>>
>>>> Having recently been coding mostly in C++/StL/COM, I can appreciate
>>>> how much work it takes to get low-level details right especially with
>>>> a big project; but with those struggles comes greater control,
>>>> performance, and cross-platform possibilities. Now, if I write a .Net
>>>> app, I'm conscious of what exactly occurs when I assign object
>>>> references or how much boxing/unboxing costs or using StringBuilder,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> This isn't to say .Net is "bad", but for someone who wants the full
>>>> story on Windows development and not a watered down version more apt
>>>> for hobbiest, win32/C would be a great jumping off point as .Net
>>>> serves mostly as a wrapper for those legacy technologies (with the
>>>> noteable exception of WPF which is based on DirectX).
>>>>
>>>> On 7/5/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> This reminds me of an article:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does Visual Studio Rot the Mind?
>>>>> Ruminations on the Psychology and Aesthetics of Coding
>>>>> By Charles Petzold
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Jamal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/2/2010 7:49 PM, Jes wrote:
>>>>>> Ken wrote:
>>>>>> "You can get up and running much faster on a language like, python, or
>>>>>> c
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> actually see results. Results is what matters when you start out
>>>>>> coding"...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I couldn't agree more with that. The IDE is a lazy man's way to begin
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> program. To me, any text book or college material which gives you a
>>>>>> prepackaged formula, claiming to teach you something isn't really doing
>>>>>> you any good and shouldn't even be used by the college. As an example,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> book I am using is "An Introduction to Programming with C plus plus, by
>>>>>> Diane Zak." Thank goodness they used programming, not coding. They only
>>>>>> show you the code you need to copy and paste into your IDE, which, in
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> case, is Visual Studio. I like the way the book introduces new concepts
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the C plus plus language to you, but they fail to really get down into
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> dirt with all of it. For example, they tell you what an algorithm is,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they tell you the various procedures to start writing a program; 1,
>>>>>> analyzing a problem, 2, planning an algorithm, 3, desk-checking your
>>>>>> algorithm, etc. Basically, it just feels like I'm copying and pasting
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> bunch of code, into an IDE so I can pass a c
>>>>> ourse. Furthermore, when we finally have no errors in the code, the .exe
>>>>> opens up in a command prompt. They don't even help us build real genuine
>>>>> Windows apps, it's all console applications. I've always associated C
>>>>> plus
>>>>> plus with genuine Windows gui application development. What's wrong with
>>>>> this picture?
>>>>>> Jes, the proud man.
>>>>>>
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