The coverup in Tallahassee is becoming more apparent. I don't know what happens here, but I expect Winston will be suspended very soon.

That is a damn shame. He is a hell of a player, but if he is guilty obviously he should be brought to justice. Seemed like such a nice kid (seriously).

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Winston didn't seem like the type of kid that would be accused of such a thing, but maybe that has something to do with the media build up of him coming, with the extras of how his dad tutored him etc.

All I hope is that the process is fair, anymore you just never know.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

As much as it pains me to say it, I think OSU can jump them in the BCS. Even if he's not suspended yet by the time the selections are made in 2.5 weeks, the details will be murky and likely weigh on voters' minds. Plus, if you beat IU, Michigan, and Michigan State comfortably like I think you will and Clemson loses to South Carolina, your schedules will end up fairly even.

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

I could see the impact on FSU in the polls going either way. One like ^ mentions, the other way being the pollsters keeping FSU afloat, almost like a rallying cry, maybe as a way of "questioning" this story and the timing of it.

Either way, it stinks for FSU and for CFB in general b/c CFB could get robbed or what could be a very good match up in FSU and Bama.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:I could see the impact on FSU in the polls going either way. One like ^ mentions, the other way being the pollsters keeping FSU afloat, almost like a rallying cry, maybe as a way of "questioning" this story and the timing of it.

Either way, it stinks for FSU and for CFB in general b/c CFB could get robbed or what could be a very good match up in FSU and Bama.

The impact will be clearer when they lose to either Florida or in the ACC title game without him.

Kingpin74 wrote:Plus, if you beat IU, Michigan, and Michigan State comfortably like I think you will and Clemson loses to South Carolina, your schedules will end up fairly even.

Even if Clemson doesn't lose. FSU is gonna finish with Idaho, a terrible Florida team and Duke or a 4 loss team in their championship game. End of the season, I think the two schedule strengths end up being about even.

Well he not's guilty yet, let's keep that in mind. But IF he is, then yeah mo what you said. The follow up will be, FSU, did they know ANYTHING, if so what, did they impact the process and justice? Scary stuff if they did, just perpetuates the scary sports/football culture we seem to be so ingrained in.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:Well he not's guilty yet, let's keep that in mind. But IF he is, then yeah mo what you said. The follow up will be, FSU, did they know ANYTHING, if so what, did they impact the process and justice? Scary stuff if they did, just perpetuates the scary sports/football culture we seem to be so ingrained in.

Would seem to me FSU is pretty well insulated by the shoddy Tallahassee PD. They can just claim, "Hey, we left it in the hands of the police and they proceeded as they did. We cooperated to the extent they asked us to."

Unless between now and the BCS Championship game the kid is arrested, or indited nothing will happen. FSU will drag their feet, and the NCAA which has the tendency to move slower then an ice age , will not act until Winston is safely in a NFL Uniform.

Last edited by Govbarney on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

FUDU wrote:Well he not's guilty yet, let's keep that in mind. But IF he is, then yeah mo what you said. The follow up will be, FSU, did they know ANYTHING, if so what, did they impact the process and justice? Scary stuff if they did, just perpetuates the scary sports/football culture we seem to be so ingrained in.

Would seem to me FSU is pretty well insulated by the shoddy Tallahassee PD. They can just claim, "Hey, we left it in the hands of the police and they proceeded as they did. We cooperated to the extent they asked us to."

Yeah that could work for FSU if they now a guy who can get rid of the DA, like that school in Pennsylvania with Gricar. I kid of course.

Who knows.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Govbarney wrote:Unless between now and the BCS Championship game the kid is arrested, or indited nothing will happen. FSU will drag their feet, and the NCAA which has the tendency to move slower then an ice age , will not act until Winston is safely in a NFL Uniform.

I'm not so sure. I think it depends on how much smoke there is and what the evidence looks like. Obviously they'd want him to play, but I doubt they want to go into the NCG with a QB who looks destined to get arrested and charged with rape. I can't imagine the circus and how poorly that would reflect on an institution.

Just look at the blowback OSU got for the Sugar Bowl, and that was after the NCAA cleared them to play. And that was just tattoos. Imagine a school playing a guy that looks like a rapist to try to get the W in a bowl game ahead of a rape arrest.

I don't know what would happen. If this continues, I think they sit him down, even if he hasn't been charged yet.

I'd like to compare this to the behavior OSU had with Carlos Hyde earlier this summer. He was suspended while the investigation occurred, and even though charges were never filed, still was suspended for 3 games for pulling back a punch on a girl in a night club.

Now obviously there's no video in this case (as there was with Hyde), but there seem to be witnesses and it's taken a hell of a lot longer for this to come up to the forefront (whereas I think the Hyde thing was on Twitter hours after it occurred).

Obviously, the biggest victim involved is the girl. She went to the hospital (and the cops) right after the incident. They sat on the file for nearly a year before kicking it up to the DA, and only did so after TMZ started digging. Lots of red flags on the process at the moment.

FUDU wrote:IIRC hasn't it been reported that according to FSU policy, that if a player is charged with a felony or something of THIS nature he is automatically suspended until the matter is closed?

Ha. I'd refer you to the Peter Warwick file (if you recall, Warwick was the 'Dennis Northcutt of the South' when he was at FSU ).

If you can't flee, plea.

Any relation to Dionne Warwick?

*Warrick

And his case wasn't a huge deal, but it illustrated at the time just how deep the tentacles went into the legal environment and originated from FSU.

"A lot of people in this town are very upset that they had to stretch this to make it a felony," said state Rep. Jim King, R-Jacksonville, a 1961 graduate of FSU and one of the university's staunchest supporters in the Legislature. "I think that still running within the parameters of the law, they could have done a misdemeanor as logically as they have opted to do a felony."

Deputy State Attorney Tony Guarisco said he fielded dozens of angry calls from FSU fans. But he tells them this simple message: Warrick and Coles committed grand theft.

"I know much more than these boosters know about this case," Guarisco said.

Tallahassee Police Department spokesman Scott Hunt said his office also has been flooded with phone calls and e-mails regarding Warrick's arrest. One e-mail included a computer-enhanced picture of Warrick in uniform and standing in a Heisman Trophy pose. On his arm hung a Dillard's bag.

This shit happens all over, but it's amusing when one fan base claims they are being singled out without cause.

And, clearly, Winston's charges are much, much more severe. Just no doubt he has people in high places willing to go to bat for him for at least as long as he's enrolled in school.

FUDU wrote:IIRC hasn't it been reported that according to FSU policy, that if a player is charged with a felony or something of THIS nature he is automatically suspended until the matter is closed?

Oh yeah, I'd think if he's charged then he's done for sure. He'd have to be.

What I was trying to figure out is; what does FSU do if this continues to snowball and it looks like charges may be imminent/inevitable but Winston isn't formally charged yet with bowl season coming up? Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet? What happens if they play him and he's charged the next week?

DNA match here is really bad for Winston, but the TPD seems to be dragging their heels as much as humanly possible. And given that the victim is apparently no longer cooperating, and given that TPD seems to be passed at the victim, I would be surprised if TPD does a damned thing about this unless forced to do it.

I would also expect a law suit from the victim to the TPD and I'd expect her to get paid. Telling a rape victim to let her accuser win a football championship (which is how TPD's alleged statement will play to jurors) is pretty damn damning.

That said, this is all assuming that the media coverage is accurate, but I don't see what other choice we have but to make that assumption.

If I were trying the case based on what we know, the DNA evidence is pretty strong. It's going to come down to the judge and jury. If the prosecutor can get a judge interested in making the case look fair, a good prosecutor can get FSU fans disqualified from the jury pool. Even in Tallahassee, they'd find enough jurors. Get the FSU fans off the jury and the victim has a good chance of winning the he said/she said, with the DNA as strong support.

Another factor is the rest of the rape kit. Was there evidence of trauma? While I've never tried a rape case, my understanding is that there may well be medical evidence to show that the victim tried to resist. If there is, and if there is DNA, JW's done.

But yeah, if I'm the prosecutor, I get all the physical evidence I can, I interview JW, and see what I have. If he's guilty, there should be enough there to get him to plead out, and maybe enough to convict him, with there right judge. Way too early to be sure though.

Now, all that is with the disclaimer that I haven't seen anything in this case and this is all speculation. Also that I don't know a damn thing about Florida law, only Ohio law. Hell, I only do civil law, so none of this is my practice area. But I'd imagine that JW is in serious trouble, one way or another. However, he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. This post is all speculation. Again, he is innocent until proven otherwise.

Last edited by bac5665 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peeker643 wrote:Thought I read where she did seek medical attention after the incident. So that doesn't bode well for Winston either if trauma/injury/etc is a consideration.

Put it this way.

You, as a juror, hear that 1) a woman sustained injuries to her genitals, and 2) JW's DNA was found at the site of injury on the night of the injury.

What are you going to conclude?

And, if the prosecutor can find a way to get evidence of the alleged cover up in to the case, it gets even worse for JW.

Now, none of this is to say that he did it. He is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Just that it looks bad for him from what we've heard. But innocent until proven guilty, always. I should have stressed that in my first post too. I'll edit it.

peeker643 wrote:Thought I read where she did seek medical attention after the incident. So that doesn't bode well for Winston either if trauma/injury/etc is a consideration.

Put it this way.

You, as a juror, hear that 1) a woman sustained injuries to her genitals, and 2) JW's DNA was found at the site of injury on the night of the injury.

What are you going to conclude?

I dig. Believe me. And if it gets to that point where there's an indictment or a trial then we'll probably know that there was some basis to her medical treatment and visit. But given she did seek treatment and there is a DNA match from the night she did seek treatment, you wonder how there's not enough there to move forward. Unless she's simply unwilling to testify/cooperate and the DA wants no part of a case without a voice.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

peeker643 wrote:Thought I read where she did seek medical attention after the incident. So that doesn't bode well for Winston either if trauma/injury/etc is a consideration.

Yeah, I read that. All I've heard is that there was spunk in the drawers and a rape kit was done. I haven't heard if there were any signs of trauma like any bruising or tearing. Makes me feel sick to even type that.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

Allegations aren't charges. If he's charged with a felony offense FSU will sit/suspend him. A misdemeanor? Probably nothing. But no charges yet filed either way.

peeker643 wrote:Thought I read where she did seek medical attention after the incident. So that doesn't bode well for Winston either if trauma/injury/etc is a consideration.

Put it this way.

You, as a juror, hear that 1) a woman sustained injuries to her genitals, and 2) JW's DNA was found at the site of injury on the night of the injury.

What are you going to conclude?

I dig. Believe me. And if it gets to that point where there's an indictment or a trial then we'll probably know that there was some basis to her medical treatment and visit. But given she did seek treatment and there is a DNA match from the night she did seek treatment, you wonder how there's not enough there to move forward. Unless she's simply unwilling to testify/cooperate and the DA wants no part of a case without a voice.

I think we're on the same page. Again, speculation, but I think she may have decided that she didn't want to deal with a city and community hating her, which is what may well result if she pursues this. Especially given the pressure she allegedly received to drop it, this makes sense. When you combine that with the fact that everyone involved who can make decisions and everyone involved who can write checks is probably an FSU fan, it takes 0 imagination to guess as to why the prosecutor, the investigators, the officers, might all be dragging their feet. I've dealt with officers that don't want to investigate a case and it makes it take years longer than it should. Years. This is nothing surprising to me.

But I think that the prosecutor has no choice but to go forward, at least with the investigation, now. With the DNA match and the public profile, he has to act.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

Allegations aren't charges. If he's charged with a felony offense FSU will sit/suspend him. A misdemeanor? Probably nothing. But no charges yet filed either way.

Hell Peeker. Its college football in the south.

They'd probably still try for work release on a conviction.

They are not gonna bench Jamies from the BCS title game for anything short of a felony charge, and MAYBE not even short of an actual conviction.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

Allegations aren't charges. If he's charged with a felony offense FSU will sit/suspend him. A misdemeanor? Probably nothing. But no charges yet filed either way.

Hell Peeker. Its college football in the south.

They'd probably still try for work release on a conviction.

They are not gonna bench Jamies from the BCS title game for anything short of a felony charge, and MAYBE not even short of an actual conviction.

I know that. I'm just saying you can't suspend anyone, anywhere on allegation. Should 'Mo be sent home without pay if I allege he banged the neighbor's dog? Or if I allege he's the dude that knocked off the Stop 'N Gag last Thursday?

Has to be charges.

And that Warrick thing above? He was gifted the misdemeanor but Bababodden suspended him for two games while the charges were felony charges. He gets charged with a felony and he's suspended. Even there.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

Allegations aren't charges. If he's charged with a felony offense FSU will sit/suspend him. A misdemeanor? Probably nothing. But no charges yet filed either way.

Hell Peeker. Its college football in the south.

They'd probably still try for work release on a conviction.

They are not gonna bench Jamies from the BCS title game for anything short of a felony charge, and MAYBE not even short of an actual conviction.

I know that. I'm just saying you can't suspend anyone, anywhere on allegation. Should 'Mo be sent home without pay if I allege he banged the neighbor's dog? Or if I allege he's the dude that knocked off the Stop 'N Gag last Thursday?

Has to be charges.

And that Warrick thing above? He was gifted the misdemeanor but Bababodden suspended him for two games while the charges were felony charges. He gets charged with a felony and he's suspended. Even there.

I'd like to see some evidence that I banged that dog. That dog is a fucking liar. (Hides the peanut butter jar).

I was commenting purely on the "What should/will FSU do if this case hits investigation limbo"? Obviously if he's charged he won't play. Obviously if the case is dropped or goes away he will play. What happens if we are still right here in the middle of December?

Becasue this is more than allegations. There is evidence. He banged her. The only question is consent, and the fact that she apparently went straight to the police and had a rape kit done makes it look less like morning after regrets or gold diging. It's more than just a he said she said.

Add on top of that the implications of a TPD cover up and it looks really bad for FSU to keep running him out there, even if he's not formally charged yet.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

Allegations aren't charges. If he's charged with a felony offense FSU will sit/suspend him. A misdemeanor? Probably nothing. But no charges yet filed either way.

Hell Peeker. Its college football in the south.

They'd probably still try for work release on a conviction.

They are not gonna bench Jamies from the BCS title game for anything short of a felony charge, and MAYBE not even short of an actual conviction.

I know that. I'm just saying you can't suspend anyone, anywhere on allegation. Should 'Mo be sent home without pay if I allege he banged the neighbor's dog? Or if I allege he's the dude that knocked off the Stop 'N Gag last Thursday?

Has to be charges.

And that Warrick thing above? He was gifted the misdemeanor but Bababodden suspended him for two games while the charges were felony charges. He gets charged with a felony and he's suspended. Even there.

I'd like to see some evidence that I banged that dog. That dog is a fucking liar. (Hides the peanut butter jar).

I was commenting purely on the "What should/will FSU do if this case hits investigation limbo"? Obviously if he's charged he won't play. Obviously if the case is dropped or goes away he will play. What happens if we are still right here in the middle of December?

Becasue this is more than allegations. There is evidence. He banged her. The only question is consent, and the fact that she apparently went straight to the police and had a rape kit done makes it look less like morning after regrets or gold diging. It's more than just a he said she said.

Add on top of that the implications of a TPD cover up and it looks really bad for FSU to keep running him out there, even if he's not formally charged yet.

So he gets suspended for banging the chick without love in his eyes or intent to woo her further? Because that's all you got without further evidence otherwise.

And FSU will (and should) do what they've done every single day since he banged her without affection: nothing.

If/when there are chargs brought then they better jump up and shut him down. Because it ain't til charges are filed that we should assume there's any evidence of anything illegal or untoward going on.

I'm shocked that a god-fearing lib like you wouldn't abide by that concept.

motherscratcher wrote: Does FSU have to sit him even if he's not charged yet?

You're joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Don't they have to sit him if it looks like charges are imminent? I'm not sure why that's so outlandish. Like Someone pointed out, Hyde got sat down before he was charged and got a suspension for jack shit. How do you play an about to be charged accused rapist with matching DNA?

Allegations aren't charges. If he's charged with a felony offense FSU will sit/suspend him. A misdemeanor? Probably nothing. But no charges yet filed either way.

Hell Peeker. Its college football in the south.

They'd probably still try for work release on a conviction.

They are not gonna bench Jamies from the BCS title game for anything short of a felony charge, and MAYBE not even short of an actual conviction.

I know that. I'm just saying you can't suspend anyone, anywhere on allegation. Should 'Mo be sent home without pay if I allege he banged the neighbor's dog? Or if I allege he's the dude that knocked off the Stop 'N Gag last Thursday?

Has to be charges.

And that Warrick thing above? He was gifted the misdemeanor but Bababodden suspended him for two games while the charges were felony charges. He gets charged with a felony and he's suspended. Even there.

I'd like to see some evidence that I banged that dog. That dog is a fucking liar. (Hides the peanut butter jar).

I was commenting purely on the "What should/will FSU do if this case hits investigation limbo"? Obviously if he's charged he won't play. Obviously if the case is dropped or goes away he will play. What happens if we are still right here in the middle of December?

Becasue this is more than allegations. There is evidence. He banged her. The only question is consent, and the fact that she apparently went straight to the police and had a rape kit done makes it look less like morning after regrets or gold diging. It's more than just a he said she said.

Add on top of that the implications of a TPD cover up and it looks really bad for FSU to keep running him out there, even if he's not formally charged yet.

They are going to charge him or not by the end of next week. I have read that lots of places now. TPD and the State's Attorney General really does not want this hanging around. For better or worse things will happen quick now... finally.

If I were a betting man, I would bet on charges. Partially due to the fact, that there is probably something to this, but also because if it is even close the SAG will indict so that they don't appear to be involved in a cover up. They'll be content to win or lose in court, but they don't want to be the last one standing when the music stops.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

furls wrote:They are going to charge him or not by the end of next week. I have read that lots of places now. TPD and the State's Attorney General really does not want this hanging around. For better or worse things will happen quick now... finally.

If I were a betting man, I would bet on charges. Partially due to the fact, that there is probably something to this, but also because if it is even close the SAG will indict so that they don't appear to be involved in a cover up. They'll be content to win or lose in court, but they don't want to be the last one standing when the music stops.

This won't go to trial unless JW demands it. Whether he does or not will depend on the evidence the SAG has, which we won't know for a while, if ever. But everyone, including JW, wants to avoid a trial if possible. No one wins in the publicity that would happen. JW will look guilty on TV to the national audience (Nancy Grace will ruin him) and the victim will not want to have to accuse him of rape on court TV. And the SAG doesn't want to prosecute this seasons's hero in open court; the local politics will be terrible for him.

Everyone wants this to end as fast as possible with as little noise as possible. This will plead out.

Name one freaking time I apologized for him ...go ahead...please look for a link...and many at OBR know I hated himTry to avoid inventing me in your own image for once and cease assuming you know what the hell you're talking about

Like does not equal zealot and I like lots of college teams...in fact, I used to like OSU till Al Whore invented the internet...... and I met OSU fan @OBR

Name one freaking time I apologized for him ...go ahead...please look for a link...and many at OBR know I hated himTry to avoid inventing me in your own image for once and cease assuming you know what the hell you're talking about

Like does not equal zealot and I like lots of college teams...in fact, I used to like OSU till Al Whore invented the internet...... and I met OSU fan @OBR