"Bungie are a very unusual company," Kotick said during a talk at the America Merrill Lynch Media, Communications, and Entertainment conference (via CVG). "They're probably the last remaining high-quality independent developer... that has sort of has institutional skills and capabilities. And they're a real company."

And while Bungie is certainly good at what it does—as our review of Halo: Reach can attest—the list of other skilled indie developers is very long, including the likes of 2D Boy, 5th Cell, Capy Games, Gearbox, Level 5, Q-Games, Sucker Punch, Twisted Pixel, Valve and countless others.

Because the HALO series is so popular, people often overlook Bungie's other stunning achievements. Myth II and Oni were both huge hits in my book. I suppose Valve holds a candle to them, but they singlehandedly put the original xbox on the map.

Why do game companies continue to hire people who have no clue what "gaming" is to run their business?

Mostly because the owners of the company (i.e. shareholders) don't know what "gaming" is. They only want to see one thing: Profit! I hate Kotic and his ways as much as the next gamer, but Activision is a business, the only thing they will understand is voting with your wallet.

I know that 3D Realms had to close up shop and all, but there's no need to kick a good dev while it's down. Totally not their fault, of course, and obviously Kotick's comment would be laughably false if they were still around to finish working on Duke Nukem.

Also: no love for Running With Scissors? They're like the Insane Clown Posse of video game development: underappreciated geniuses who don't get enough credit from the "mainstream" because they're too hardcore for that. What is Kotick's problem?

Because the HALO series is so popular, people often overlook Bungie's other stunning achievements. Myth II and Oni were both huge hits in my book. I suppose Valve holds a candle to them, but they singlehandedly put the original xbox on the map.

lol I hope thats sarcasm.

Because if you want to talk platforms. Valve built, launched, and manages one of the worlds largest gaming networks. Oh it also put digital distribution on the map.

Well I'd definitely disagree, Bungie do make good games as far as the mechanics are concerned but as far as their story selling capabilities they are laughable (particularly the Halo games) bordering on pretentiousness and riddled with cliche's. Even the facial animation in the Halo games is downright primitive compared to older titles from other developers.

I'm a casual gamer and an Activision shareholder. Seems Kotic is good at both pissing me off and losing me money. Unfortunately, at this point, ATVI is still a good long-term investment.

Well, it's been treading water at least the past couple of years... if it had a slightly better dividend, it would actually be a great stock to have a long-term position in (then again, likely changes in tax law are expected to make companies try to liquidate much of their cash on hand, which should either mean Activision increases their dividends and/or goes on a buying binge).

Why do game companies continue to hire people who have no clue what "gaming" is to run their business?

Mostly because the owners of the company (i.e. shareholders) don't know what "gaming" is. They only want to see one thing: Profit! I hate Kotic and his ways as much as the next gamer, but Activision is a business, the only thing they will understand is voting with your wallet.

To be fair, they'd understand other things as well, but most of those would end up putting you in prison.

Because the HALO series is so popular, people often overlook Bungie's other stunning achievements. Myth II and Oni were both huge hits in my book. I suppose Valve holds a candle to them, but they singlehandedly put the original xbox on the map.

lol I hope thats sarcasm.

Because if you want to talk platforms. Valve built, launched, and manages one of the worlds largest gaming networks. Oh it also put digital distribution on the map.

I doubt he was being sarcastic. I would hands down agree that Myth I & II were a significant hit (and no, I'm not talking about Myst). Oni, not so much, it was a letdown. I would say that Bungie really set themselves apart with the Marathon series. Back when a FPS's plot consisted of "close the door to hell, find the yellow key" their plot/storytelling had considerable depth.

They've taken a lot of flack (even from me) about taking advantage of a great business opportunity & having the guts to put a good FPS on a console (something that had largely ended in failure & suckage before).

Now I'm not saying they're better than Valve or that Valve is better than Bungie, but I would agree with gman2093 in saying that Valve can "hold a candle to" Bungie, but I would have to say the opposite too, Bungie can hold a candle to Valve.

EDIT: I am in no way backing up what Kotick had to say. I think he just liked to be inflammatory for the fun of it / press it gets.

And while I'm fearful of the Bungie-Activision deal I'm hopeful. I thought Bungie had lost their soul with the Microsoft buyout, but IMHO things turned out well for them, hopefully history will repeat itself. Activision will not own any IP that Bungie creates, Bungie should be free to "do what they want" and Activision will just handle the distribution, promotion & what not. (see http://halo.bungie.org/misc/bungie_acti ... 00429.html). Like I said before, I'm a little scared for Bungie, but yet hopeful.

michaellone:Why do game companies continue to hire people who have no clue what "gaming" is to run their business?

Probably because they prefer to hire people who know what business is to, you know, run their business. Kotic may be an ass, but Activision is pulling in the big bucks right now, and that's what his job is. Some companies' vision will align better with yours, others won't, that makes them appear as good and evil, but they are all just businesses and there's nothing wrong with that. You and I will complain that he's destroying the gaming world, yet, millions of people vote with their wallets saying he's doing great. If I did something and a few posters in a forum complain, yet millions of people happily and willingly gave me millions of dollars, what do you think is the message I get?

Bobby Kotick is a prototypical modern large corporate CEO. His sole and entire focus is on what's best for his company's stock price this quarter. Everything he says is aimed squarely at the investment community, with the goal of either promoting or managing expectations for the company's shares. We have no way of knowing whether he understands a customer's view of the things he says, and in the end it just flat out doesn't matter. Because we, as customers, don't matter beyond whatever minimum we must be provided to be induced to continue transferring our money to the company.

What Bobby meant to say was, "Bungie was the only indie developer who would talk to us."

And come on, who actually believes that Valve isn't better than Bungie?

Valve. The company which:Is using a 6 year old engine.Buys in game ideas and takes over other studios.Has only one internal original product which hasn't "gone to plan" in terms of releasing new content (ep 3).

Sure, some of their games may be well received, but as a developer, they are hardly great.

Epic, somewhat similar story.They have some top titles, but their main amazing thing is the engine, which almost everyone is using, much like the thing people take notice of with Valve is Steam.That doesn't make them good indie game developers, that just means they've made some things which aren't games which have been well received.I would assume Kotick is talking about companies which mainly focus on games, in which case Valve isn't particularly great, they do the same as most non-indie publishers (buying other people) and while Epic has some good titles, they also have bad ones.

"Sure, some of their games may be well received, but as a developer, they are hardly great."

That doesn't make any god damn sense. What could possibly be your definition of success if it's not 'sells millions of units/gets great reviews'

Both Valve and Epic titles fall into those categories. Not only are they both great developers, but they provide excellent community tools. Yet, you would disqualify them because they license out their technology? Why would their engines be so popular if they weren't great developers?!

Also: no love for Running With Scissors? They're like the Insane Clown Posse of video game development: underappreciated geniuses who don't get enough credit from the "mainstream" because they're too hardcore for that. What is Kotick's problem?

Two Things:

1) Postal was terrible. There are plenty of reasons to not like that game. Believe me, it's issue isn't being underappreciated.

2) ICP are terrible. Their lyrics make no sense, their production is crap, and Juggalos are an argument for why forced sterilization should be legalized for certain groups of people. Their issues as a group have noting to do with the "mainstream."

Of course Kotick is going to be concerned with share price. It is his job to run the company in a way that increases value for shareholders. His goal is not to make the best games as an end itself; he wants to make the best games that can make money for Activision. There is nothing inherently wrong with that goal. Everyone here knows the pros and cons of big game companies.

Bungie is a fantastic game developer. From top to bottom, they seem to be the best independant developer out there. Sure their games may not be the best looking (they definitely aren't), but the entire package that you get when purchasing a Bungie game is second to none. The online features of the Bungie website, the ease of online gaming, and the quality support are just a few of the reasons why Bungie stands out. Valve now does so much (Steam) that they cannot just be considered a game developer. Their game developement track record is appropriately criticized by Lonyo above. Yes Gearbox and Epic and the like are great developers. None of this serves to take any accolades away from them. Bungie remains the gold standard for independant game developement.