Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

plauge leech should always be cast on CD becuse you get back 2 runes for more dps, maybe not always directly depending on how fast/ easy you can put back diseases again

what I can understand you should always spend runes on Howling blast, unless you really need to use it on other things

some people say use obliterate when you have 2 unholy runes so you always have 1 on cd, or if you have a KS proc but not enough RP för frost strikebut I only use Obliterate when i have KS proc and no RP, if I want to use runes I use it on Plauge strike, and the other Rune on a Howling blast, becuse that feels like I do more dmg, but at the same time I think I lose some dmg becuse that takes time to do and I lose 1 sec by doing 2 spells instead of 1and im not useing defile on most fights as I like necrotic plauge more, easier to have stacks up, easier to use plauge leach on CD and refreshing stacks instant etc, and I dont have to worry about the boss moveing, and I can then do what ever I want with my unholy runes

but I am not a pro, so my way of playing is most likley not the best of the best, but im trying around and learning and getting better

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

plauge leech should always be cast on CD becuse you get back 2 runes for more dps, maybe not always directly depending on how fast/ easy you can put back diseases again

what I can understand you should always spend runes on Howling blast, unless you really need to use it on other things

some people say use obliterate when you have 2 unholy runes so you always have 1 on cd, or if you have a KS proc but not enough RP för frost strike

but I only use Obliterate when i have KS proc and no RP, if I want to use runes I use it on Plauge strike, and the other Rune on a Howling blast, becuse that feels like I do more dmg, but at the same time I think I lose some dmg becuse that takes time to do and I lose 1 sec by doing 2 spells instead of 1

and im not useing defile on most fights as I like necrotic plauge more, easier to have stacks up, easier to use plauge leach on CD and refreshing stacks instant etc, and I dont have to worry about the boss moveing, and I can then do what ever I want with my unholy runes

but I am not a pro, so my way of playing is most likley not the best of the best, but im trying around and learning and getting better

First of thanks for the swift response :)

I understand using obliterate if there's a proc but no runic power to use it on frost strike but, instead of using obliterate to consume the proc isn't it better to just spam howling blast to later consume it with frost strike?

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

1. Howling blast should mainly be used when it procs for a free use off of obliterate

2. Obliterate generates more runic power per use than Howling blast, meaning you will have more frost strikes available, which is your main damage attack

3. Howling blast is mainly an aoe attack, as such its better used on multiple targets if you really want to spam it, for single target however it does less damage and generates less runic power than obliterate, so for aoe damage yes, single target no

So ideally you should keep diseases up, keep defile down, use obliterate mostly on KM to generate runic power, use howling blast procs before you use obliterate again so you don't waste a possible proc, use frost strike on KM when you have runic power to do so, outbreak on cd, plague strike when outbreak is not available, and lastly howling blast "spamming" only as an aoe for multiple targets and even then it should be in between attacks and procs from obliterate off a main single target to get the most free procs. (left out the rune regenerators, but you probably know those)

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

1. Howling blast should mainly be used when it procs for a free use off of obliterate

2. Obliterate generates more runic power per use than Howling blast, meaning you will have more frost strikes available, which is your main damage attack

3. Howling blast is mainly an aoe attack, as such its better used on multiple targets if you really want to spam it, for single target however it does less damage and generates less runic power than obliterate, so for aoe damage yes, single target no

So ideally you should keep diseases up, keep defile down, use obliterate mostly on KM to generate runic power, use howling blast procs before you use obliterate again so you don't waste a possible proc, use frost strike on KM when you have runic power to do so, outbreak on cd, plague strike when outbreak is not available, and lastly howling blast "spamming" only as an aoe for multiple targets and even then it should be in between attacks and procs from obliterate off a main single target to get the most free procs. (left out the rune regenerators, but you probably know those)

This proposed rotation is for 2h not dual wield. Dual wield your number 1 ability is howling blast followed by frost strike. You almost never use obliterate. Even then 2 frost strikes generate more rp then 1 obliterate (both conditions burn 2 runes). For dual wield you want to use your km procs on frost strike again obliterate is just a no no. Now then in spite of all of this once you have your 4 piece and your trinket you want to drop dual wield completely for 2h. That is because the trink makes obliterate hit harder and 4 piece gives you more km obliterates.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

1. Howling blast should mainly be used when it procs for a free use off of obliterate

2. Obliterate generates more runic power per use than Howling blast, meaning you will have more frost strikes available, which is your main damage attack

3. Howling blast is mainly an aoe attack, as such its better used on multiple targets if you really want to spam it, for single target however it does less damage and generates less runic power than obliterate, so for aoe damage yes, single target no

So ideally you should keep diseases up, keep defile down, use obliterate mostly on KM to generate runic power, use howling blast procs before you use obliterate again so you don't waste a possible proc, use frost strike on KM when you have runic power to do so, outbreak on cd, plague strike when outbreak is not available, and lastly howling blast "spamming" only as an aoe for multiple targets and even then it should be in between attacks and procs from obliterate off a main single target to get the most free procs. (left out the rune regenerators, but you probably know those)

This proposed rotation is for 2h not dual wield. Dual wield your number 1 ability is howling blast followed by frost strike. You almost never use obliterate. Even then 2 frost strikes generate more rp then 1 obliterate (both conditions burn 2 runes). For dual wield you want to use your km procs on frost strike again obliterate is just a no no. Now then in spite of all of this once you have your 4 piece and your trinket you want to drop dual wield completely for 2h. That is because the trink makes obliterate hit harder and 4 piece gives you more km obliterates.

Obviously frost strike is the main attack for DW, as I said in the first line, you dont want to use obliterate at will, but when you have the runes to use it, it does more damage than howling blast and can proc a free howling blast... so why would you not use it? Howling blast seems to me to yield much less runic power per use than obliterate, so using obliterate when you need to generate runic power and possibly getting a no cost howling blast seems to make more sense for a single target than spamming an aoe attack at full cost every time when you could get it for free. Also if I need to burn a KM and have no runic power obviously obliterate is a no no, use death strike or howling blast to get some runic power for KM on frost strike in that instance.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

1. Howling blast should mainly be used when it procs for a free use off of obliterate

2. Obliterate generates more runic power per use than Howling blast, meaning you will have more frost strikes available, which is your main damage attack

3. Howling blast is mainly an aoe attack, as such its better used on multiple targets if you really want to spam it, for single target however it does less damage and generates less runic power than obliterate, so for aoe damage yes, single target no

So ideally you should keep diseases up, keep defile down, use obliterate mostly on KM to generate runic power, use howling blast procs before you use obliterate again so you don't waste a possible proc, use frost strike on KM when you have runic power to do so, outbreak on cd, plague strike when outbreak is not available, and lastly howling blast "spamming" only as an aoe for multiple targets and even then it should be in between attacks and procs from obliterate off a main single target to get the most free procs. (left out the rune regenerators, but you probably know those)

This proposed rotation is for 2h not dual wield. Dual wield your number 1 ability is howling blast followed by frost strike. You almost never use obliterate. Even then 2 frost strikes generate more rp then 1 obliterate (both conditions burn 2 runes). For dual wield you want to use your km procs on frost strike again obliterate is just a no no. Now then in spite of all of this once you have your 4 piece and your trinket you want to drop dual wield completely for 2h. That is because the trink makes obliterate hit harder and 4 piece gives you more km obliterates.

Obviously frost strike is the main attack for DW, as I said in the first line, you dont want to use obliterate at will, but when you have the runes to use it, it does more damage than howling blast and can proc a free howling blast... so why would you not use it? Howling blast seems to me to yield much less runic power per use than obliterate, so using obliterate when you need to generate runic power and possibly getting a no cost howling blast seems to make more sense for a single target than spamming an aoe attack at full cost every time when you could get it for free. Also if I need to burn a KM and have no runic power obviously obliterate is a no no, use death strike or howling blast to get some runic power for KM on frost strike in that instance.

It's a matter of tuning. Howling blast generates (and im doing this off the top of my head) something like 17 rp while obliterate gives 27. However obliterate uses 2 runes. So if we take our two howling blasts we get 34 vs 27. As far as damage just try out on test dummies. Howling blasts damage got buffed this patch and out powers obliterate. The damage even on one target of 2 howling blasts WHILE dual wielding will be higher then obliterate. Why? Razorice. Razorice causes your target to take more damage from frost based attacks. With 5 stacks of razorice which dual wielding you should always have, howling blast hits that much harder. As far as having no rp and having a km proc you can wait for frost strike. KM procs last long enough to poop out a howling blast or two in order to build your rp.

Now with tier and trinket things change a bit. The value of obliterate goes up. However, once you have 4 piece and class trinket you basically want to drop dual wield period in favor of two hand. This is because frozen obliterate will hit harder and you are pretty much guaranteed to always have it KM powered (or you are just bad).

As far as defile vs necrotic plague. Necrotic plague when dual wielding is the easier go to talent at first. Defile is stronger but requires the full duration of its ability to be applied to the boss i.e. boss needs to marinate in it the entire time. If the boss moves out (especially at the end of the duration) it is a dps loss. Now the guides here are lovely but they are in general type deals.

The choice here depends on the encounter type. If you are able to consistently deal a majority of Defile's 10 ticks to your target(s), then it is a better choice. However, if the targets move a lot, then Necrotic Plague is the better choice.

There are fights were you would prefer one talent over the other. I can give you the run down right here

Dual Wield Frawst Lvl 100 talent choice for hellfya citadel:

Hellfire Assulate : Necrotic plague

Iron Reaver: Defile

Kormrok: Necrotic Plague

Council: Defile

Killrog: Defile

Gorefiend: Defile

Ishkar: Either. You really want to make sure you have defile ready for add phase but while transition ishkar will spread necrotic to adds so which ever one you are more comfy with.

Socrethar: Again either. Depends on you range players. I usually have to help with ghosts.

Tyrant: Defile

Bondage Demon Zakuun: Defile

Xhul: Necrotic Plague. Defile will do more boss damage by far but here adds are spread out a lot. You want necrotic plague to jump everywhere, especially phase 2 and 3 when it become a crap storm of adds. Your diseases working over everything will help out group. Defile again does more damage but because of the CD and the need to burn, spreading 15 stack np works faster and speed is key.

Mannoroth: Again depends on group. Defile by far is superior single target but if you have trouble with adds NP.

Archi: Defile, there are a lot of adds here but high priority ones that need a beat stick to get down. Defile.

So, there is optimal play and what you as player can do. So these are guidelines but again if you are newer to the class or the raid and you can't predict movement, you are wasting your defile. Also with dual wield you build up your stacks of necrotic plague super fast coupled with plague leech is should almost always be at 15 stacks.