This change would have been great if made a passive instead of taking something away from us, not sure why every ret "buff" needs to have strings attached "Well we are going to do this for you but in place take this other useful thing away" while other classes actually get things to help them nostrings.

Yeah, that's how it kinda feels. "we'll give you a buff, but in return we are gong to take something else."

Uh.... hate to be a debbie downer but I'm going to point some things out. From 54 seconds to about 2 minutes you show a clip of you fighting a feral druid who is either a flat out idiot or... yeah he's a flat out idiot. You are never Faerie Fire'd. You are never Raked. He never pops defensive CD's. Not a single one. Other than maybe barkskin when he's running away from you for some ungodly reason.

Most of your BG kills are exactly what PvP videos do. Show you killing a DK with ~300k max hp and showing off an 100k crit like it's that spectacular.

Your game against the Shammy KFC you NEVER get disarmed when your cooldowns are up. Nor do you really get warbringer shockwaved.

As anaxie said, you are probably in a RBG group with people you know. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been 50x easier if you were an arms warrior or FDK this season.

TL;DR: I'm sure you aren't a bad Ret, but 90% of that video shows TERRIBLE or UNDERGEARED players, usually both. So... doesn't really show Ret as being fine.

Of course, that video is against mostly undergeared people.
It was more of a plug if I were to be honest with you.

And you're right, the same people I played RBGs with this season are the same people(roughly) I have done so with for the past 3 or so seasons.
I still don't think this was that bad, I've seen more 2400 RBG ret palas this season than any other.
Wether that's is wintrading or not I do not know.

Of course, that video is against mostly undergeared people.
It was more of a plug if I were to be honest with you.

And you're right, the same people I played RBGs with this season are the same people(roughly) I have done so with for the past 3 or so seasons.
I still don't think this was that bad, I've seen more 2400 RBG ret palas this season than any other.
Wether that's is wintrading or not I do not know.

It's not wintrading at all, just saying most Ret's don't necessarily have connections to help them get into a group because most people who are trying to rating are searching for a nearly specific RBG comp. But I mean, as I said, most teams are going to be willing to take a stronger melee for their 1-2 spots.

I haven't really seen many Rets that weren't pretty obviously carried by a 5.0 warrior/BM. Pretty much more of Freedom bitches. But honestly, Ret was in at least an OK spot before they nerfed pvp power, so next season I figure Ret will be middle of the pack instead of bottom of the barrel choice, but won't be spectacular like Unholy/Rogue/Monk followed by warriors/Frost/Ferals as strongest melee choices for Arena. RBG teams will continue to take warrior FC's and only rogues or DK's as melees 80-90% of the time, I'd say.

It's safe to say DP is now obsolete for PvP. I dont PvE but i dont think it had a lot of use there either. I mean why complicate your rotation for no dps gain? I think they should just replace the talent at this point. And i dont want it to be baseline. Id much rather harder hitting TV than some rng if they decide to buff our sustained.

Well the thing is, CS requires melee (where you get the pvp power proc from), why did they get rid of the PTR Seal of Justice? I'm sure a lot of rets would have taken not having a dot to have sustained damage, at least they tried though :P. They bring "cool" spells to monks, while old classes/specs get the poopy end of the development stick. I knew it would happen.

People being ignorant about forcing you to play Holy in Arena or RBG says more about them than your class.

If you want to play Ret, play Ret.

But AFAIK, Paladins got the tools for any type of situation. Silence (even though its melee), dispells roots etc., Judgment and Exorcism being ranged, and CS to deal good damage close up.

And dont forget off healing will be buffed alot in next patch.

Excuse me, which planet did you come from? Just because we've been struggling to find alien lifeforms since forever and you've been living right under our noses,we'd like to study you.

Insults are both unwanted and unnecessary. - Malthanis

Ontopic:
Is it only me of the pvp4set change seems like a hidden nerf?
On live you gain a holypower whenever you take direct damage,8 sec ICD -> 7.5 holypower every minute which is at its full use mostly because we're being trained.
This 4set gets changed to the -60sec on AW one.
To give us something back, on PTR they'll change glyph of blessed life to work with any seal-> 50% chance on stun/fear/immobilize to gain 1 holypower,20 sec ICD.

best case 3 holypower per minute,but its already has-a-chance and only works on CCs every 20 sec.

I see this change as a nerf to defensive that still has us being a 2minute wonder spec .

They're not bad if well played. Most players are average, if you're good, you've got your chances . I have much fun with my Ret, and even if I play a warrior too, that's totally different when you don't have that healer behind you, and even more with the changes to come. The gameplay's different, the tools you bring to your teammates instead of tunneling an adversary, I like that.

They're not bad if well played. Most players are average, if you're good, you've got your chances . I have much fun with my Ret, and even if I play a warrior too, that's totally different when you don't have that healer behind you, and even more with the changes to come. The gameplay's different, the tools you bring to your teammates instead of tunneling an adversary, I like that.

If they fix survivability with stronger defense the sustained damage should get fixed too since holy power is now wasted on WoG to survive when getting trained. The decreased sustained mainly comes from kiting melees, not being able to use TV's all the time and even missing melee swings. This will get even worse in 5.2 with monks/rogues/DK's raping everything they touch.

Umm... isn't everyone sort of forgetting that our current 4pc is pretty awesome? Holy Power from direct damage (in other words all the time since we always get trainded) every 8 sec. So now you can burst a bit more often, but your Holy Power generation will be much lower, so less sustained healing, less sustained damage, and even more trouble keeping Inquisition up...So in an attempt to give us more damage between cooldowns they nerfed our damage between cooldowns... In other words, now we get to be fully CCed every 2 minutes instead of 3, and then have even crappier damage and healing the rest of the time... this is awful.

THIS. Seriously we have one really good 4p bonus and they want to remove it? for what 1 min more cc? jesus blizz lost their sence of pvp