Vote decides Lendal Bridge drivers must apply for refund

A FRESH debate over the repayment of drivers fined for crossing York's Lendal Bridge during a controversial trial has concluded that motorists will not be refunded en masse.

A senior scrutiny committee met last night to discuss the plan to offer refunds only to people who apply, after a decision made by cabinet earlier this month was "called in" by opposition councillors.

Tens of thousands of fines were issued to drivers who crossed the bridge during a trial ban on private traffic last winter.

The Labour majority on the committee voted against calls to automatically refund motorists instead deciding to grant refunds only when motorists apply for them, winning 5-4.

Liberal Democrat, Cllr Ann Reid urged the Labour councillors to “reconsider this decision and try and repair some of the damage done to York’s reputation”.

Meanwhile, Conservative leader Cllr Chris Steward said after the meeting: "We are in a situation where people will have to apply for their money back. It's just wrong and against values of fairness. We just don't know what it's going to cost York - if everyone applies it will be more expensive."

A Labour spokesman said: "To address the ongoing uncertainty around this issue we have decided to voluntarily pay back fines as a gesture of goodwill where a request is made to the Council, as no dispute exists unless a request is made.

"Now that the Scrutiny Committee have agreed to this, the time has come for the opposition to positively engage with the independently-led, cross-party Congestion Commission, say what their ideas are, and try and agree a way to manage the traffic problems York faces."

Comments (98)

Well what did anyone expect. After all if they just repaid all the fines it would be like admitting they were illegal. Now who was it who said they would resign if the fines were illegal? Oh yes the perpetrator of this shambles Mr Merrett.

What we need to know now is how much is going to be spent administering this in order to make sure Mr Merrett does not have to stick to his word.

Well what did anyone expect. After all if they just repaid all the fines it would be like admitting they were illegal. Now who was it who said they would resign if the fines were illegal? Oh yes the perpetrator of this shambles Mr Merrett.
What we need to know now is how much is going to be spent administering this in order to make sure Mr Merrett does not have to stick to his word.strangebuttrue?

mel_drew wrote:
And are the council going to write to all of the victims to inform them of the need to apply for their own money back?

No they said not, because it would cost more than just repaying all the fines !

[quote][p][bold]mel_drew[/bold] wrote:
And are the council going to write to all of the victims to inform them of the need to apply for their own money back?[/p][/quote]No they said not, because it would cost more than just repaying all the fines !Ichabod76

So they have voted to break the law commit misconduct in public office.
Refusing to return what they were not entitled to keep is text book example of the common law offence .
Making people beg ?
I have a better idea, Sue them in court, let them stand before a judge and refuse to give the money back.
Why do they think they are above the law ?

So they have voted to break the law commit misconduct in public office.
Refusing to return what they were not entitled to keep is text book example of the common law offence .
Making people beg ?
I have a better idea, Sue them in court, let them stand before a judge and refuse to give the money back.
Why do they think they are above the law ?vax2002

This is not the end at all. The media can give wider publicity, and it will not
be an easy ride for the council. 5 to 4 vote suggests divided opinion.
I anticipate 5% maximum take up on refunds unless the media help!

Coppergate prohibited motor scheme, the only one the council appealed the adjudicator's decision on, was far worse. That appeal decision is not imminent, as per TPT to-day, so the PCN saga goes on.

Currently Coppergate's CCTVs are turned off; so just how confident are the council having spent £11k plus on legal advice, nearly a year too late.

This is not the end at all. The media can give wider publicity, and it will not
be an easy ride for the council. 5 to 4 vote suggests divided opinion.
I anticipate 5% maximum take up on refunds unless the media help!
Coppergate prohibited motor scheme, the only one the council appealed the adjudicator's decision on, was far worse. That appeal decision is not imminent, as per TPT to-day, so the PCN saga goes on.
Currently Coppergate's CCTVs are turned off; so just how confident are the council having spent £11k plus on legal advice, nearly a year too late.Cheeky face

vax2002 wrote:
So they have voted to break the law commit misconduct in public office.
Refusing to return what they were not entitled to keep is text book example of the common law offence .
Making people beg ?
I have a better idea, Sue them in court, let them stand before a judge and refuse to give the money back.
Why do they think they are above the law ?

Quite right. It could well be fraud to keep monies not legally obtained.

How many of the voters were labour?

[quote][p][bold]vax2002[/bold] wrote:
So they have voted to break the law commit misconduct in public office.
Refusing to return what they were not entitled to keep is text book example of the common law offence .
Making people beg ?
I have a better idea, Sue them in court, let them stand before a judge and refuse to give the money back.
Why do they think they are above the law ?[/p][/quote]Quite right. It could well be fraud to keep monies not legally obtained.
How many of the voters were labour?Cheeky face

Bath's prohibited motor vehicle scheme was better than York's; yet they gave automatic refunds. I believe Hemel Hemstead did so as well.

Colchester bus lane scheme was abandoned and Essex Council refunded £1.3m en masse. The County Council agreed to re-visit that issue.

So, why do York council think against the flow?

Bath's prohibited motor vehicle scheme was better than York's; yet they gave automatic refunds. I believe Hemel Hemstead did so as well.
Colchester bus lane scheme was abandoned and Essex Council refunded £1.3m en masse. The County Council agreed to re-visit that issue.
So, why do York council think against the flow?Cheeky face

I hope all those affected charge an administration charge of their own for the time spent having to reclaim the money that is rightfully theirs.

£9.25 an hour plus expenses is allowed through the small claims Court....

I hope all those affected charge an administration charge of their own for the time spent having to reclaim the money that is rightfully theirs.
£9.25 an hour plus expenses is allowed through the small claims Court....Back and Beyond

The press should name the Labour councillors who voted against repaying the fines. The public deserve to know who let them down.

This isn't yet over despite the repeated attempts by a Labour to put it behind them. Under their direction CYC unlawfully fined people and now holds money they obtained unlawfully in their bank accounts.

It will only take one individual to apply for legal aid, which may well be granted due to the wider public interest, to launch a class action against CYC for refund and damages to reputation and inconvenience. I imagine NYP may also want to consider whether any criminal offences have been committed by continuing to withhold monies obtained unlawfully.

This disgusting debacle will be the end of Labour in York. The sad thing is we will still be paying off the legacy of their debt and vanity projects for decades to come.

The press should name the Labour councillors who voted against repaying the fines. The public deserve to know who let them down.
This isn't yet over despite the repeated attempts by a Labour to put it behind them. Under their direction CYC unlawfully fined people and now holds money they obtained unlawfully in their bank accounts.
It will only take one individual to apply for legal aid, which may well be granted due to the wider public interest, to launch a class action against CYC for refund and damages to reputation and inconvenience. I imagine NYP may also want to consider whether any criminal offences have been committed by continuing to withhold monies obtained unlawfully.
This disgusting debacle will be the end of Labour in York. The sad thing is we will still be paying off the legacy of their debt and vanity projects for decades to come.Jack Ham

So is there a time limit within which applications must be made, or are the council going to have to stash the cash in perpetuity on the off chance that someone in the wilds of Wiltshire may happen to hear of the refund scheme in ten years time?

This all sounds borderline criminal to me. Certainly shameful to this fair (sorry, UNfair) city.

So is there a time limit within which applications must be made, or are the council going to have to stash the cash in perpetuity on the off chance that someone in the wilds of Wiltshire may happen to hear of the refund scheme in ten years time?
This all sounds borderline criminal to me. Certainly shameful to this fair (sorry, UNfair) city.mel_drew

Jack Ham wrote:
The press should name the Labour councillors who voted against repaying the fines. The public deserve to know who let them down.

This isn't yet over despite the repeated attempts by a Labour to put it behind them. Under their direction CYC unlawfully fined people and now holds money they obtained unlawfully in their bank accounts.

It will only take one individual to apply for legal aid, which may well be granted due to the wider public interest, to launch a class action against CYC for refund and damages to reputation and inconvenience. I imagine NYP may also want to consider whether any criminal offences have been committed by continuing to withhold monies obtained unlawfully.

This disgusting debacle will be the end of Labour in York. The sad thing is we will still be paying off the legacy of their debt and vanity projects for decades to come.

North Yorkshire Police and BIll Woolley of the council said they thought Coppergate scheme had been wrong for years! Bill told the media they were to leave the wrong signs in place only as a deterrent!

No coaches signs in place for over 20 yeasrs, I understand , were never agreed by DfT.

So is this evening's vote a surprise?

[quote][p][bold]Jack Ham[/bold] wrote:
The press should name the Labour councillors who voted against repaying the fines. The public deserve to know who let them down.
This isn't yet over despite the repeated attempts by a Labour to put it behind them. Under their direction CYC unlawfully fined people and now holds money they obtained unlawfully in their bank accounts.
It will only take one individual to apply for legal aid, which may well be granted due to the wider public interest, to launch a class action against CYC for refund and damages to reputation and inconvenience. I imagine NYP may also want to consider whether any criminal offences have been committed by continuing to withhold monies obtained unlawfully.
This disgusting debacle will be the end of Labour in York. The sad thing is we will still be paying off the legacy of their debt and vanity projects for decades to come.[/p][/quote]North Yorkshire Police and BIll Woolley of the council said they thought Coppergate scheme had been wrong for years! Bill told the media they were to leave the wrong signs in place only as a deterrent!
No coaches signs in place for over 20 yeasrs, I understand , were never agreed by DfT.
So is this evening's vote a surprise?Cheeky face

mel_drew wrote:
So is there a time limit within which applications must be made, or are the council going to have to stash the cash in perpetuity on the off chance that someone in the wilds of Wiltshire may happen to hear of the refund scheme in ten years time?

This all sounds borderline criminal to me. Certainly shameful to this fair (sorry, UNfair) city.

The council will consider a time limit; but they should not do so.

Motoring groups like NMAG and ABD are on the case; and Coppergate.

[quote][p][bold]mel_drew[/bold] wrote:
So is there a time limit within which applications must be made, or are the council going to have to stash the cash in perpetuity on the off chance that someone in the wilds of Wiltshire may happen to hear of the refund scheme in ten years time?
This all sounds borderline criminal to me. Certainly shameful to this fair (sorry, UNfair) city.[/p][/quote]The council will consider a time limit; but they should not do so.
Motoring groups like NMAG and ABD are on the case; and Coppergate.Cheeky face

I'm rather annoyed by this decision. When you've made a mistake that cost a lot of people money. The only honourable response is to repay it whilst apologising. Any other action is wrong. Ok I'm never voting for Labour in York again sorry York Labour Party but I cannot in good conscience ever put a vote for labour in this area ever again. Party of the people pfft!

I'm rather annoyed by this decision. When you've made a mistake that cost a lot of people money. The only honourable response is to repay it whilst apologising. Any other action is wrong. Ok I'm never voting for Labour in York again sorry York Labour Party but I cannot in good conscience ever put a vote for labour in this area ever again. Party of the people pfft!Silver

This is illegal theft and the council have voted for this. I hope that all the councillors who voted in favour of this are heavily sued for the extra costs which will now be incurred. After all why should the tax payer pay for their woeful management.

This is illegal theft and the council have voted for this. I hope that all the councillors who voted in favour of this are heavily sued for the extra costs which will now be incurred. After all why should the tax payer pay for their woeful management.ouseswimmer

Can the council tell us , The refund and the collection of fines were carried out by an outside company who were paid a commission on both accounts that will amount to aprox 60% of each fine, the fine will be repaid in full to those drivers therefore the tax payer will have to pick up the commission paid to the outside company, Can the accounts department explain to the tax payer how this will appear in their accounts.

Can the council tell us , The refund and the collection of fines were carried out by an outside company who were paid a commission on both accounts that will amount to aprox 60% of each fine, the fine will be repaid in full to those drivers therefore the tax payer will have to pick up the commission paid to the outside company, Can the accounts department explain to the tax payer how this will appear in their accounts.bill bailey

bill bailey wrote:
Can the council tell us , The refund and the collection of fines were carried out by an outside company who were paid a commission on both accounts that will amount to aprox 60% of each fine, the fine will be repaid in full to those drivers therefore the tax payer will have to pick up the commission paid to the outside company, Can the accounts department explain to the tax payer how this will appear in their accounts.

Very good question!

We paid commission to have fines sent out and there will be a huge cost to processing all the repayments. That's before any legal action.

Last year we were told by Labour York that they could afford to put grit in the bins over winter. They chose instead to pay for the arts barge, 20's plenty, fairness commissions, an unwanted million pound cycle path and another half a million for paving slabs in kings square.

What's going to happen now when the already bare coffers are wrung bare to pay for Alexander and Merrets folly? More loans? More debt?

When Gordon Brown was thrown out of Downing St in 2010 Liam Byrne left a note in the treasury saying all the money had gone.

What will Labours legacy be in York? A fairer society? Good services? A contented population? Not a chance.

We'll be left penniless, in debt with our reputation in tatters.

If the Labour councillors and Kersten England has any integrity they would resign now. They won't of course. They will hang on till the last minute making it harder every day that goes by to recover from their ego driven incompetence.

[quote][p][bold]bill bailey[/bold] wrote:
Can the council tell us , The refund and the collection of fines were carried out by an outside company who were paid a commission on both accounts that will amount to aprox 60% of each fine, the fine will be repaid in full to those drivers therefore the tax payer will have to pick up the commission paid to the outside company, Can the accounts department explain to the tax payer how this will appear in their accounts.[/p][/quote]Very good question!
We paid commission to have fines sent out and there will be a huge cost to processing all the repayments. That's before any legal action.
Last year we were told by Labour York that they could afford to put grit in the bins over winter. They chose instead to pay for the arts barge, 20's plenty, fairness commissions, an unwanted million pound cycle path and another half a million for paving slabs in kings square.
What's going to happen now when the already bare coffers are wrung bare to pay for Alexander and Merrets folly? More loans? More debt?
When Gordon Brown was thrown out of Downing St in 2010 Liam Byrne left a note in the treasury saying all the money had gone.
What will Labours legacy be in York? A fairer society? Good services? A contented population? Not a chance.
We'll be left penniless, in debt with our reputation in tatters.
If the Labour councillors and Kersten England has any integrity they would resign now. They won't of course. They will hang on till the last minute making it harder every day that goes by to recover from their ego driven incompetence.Jack Ham

Cheeky face wrote:
This is not the end at all. The media can give wider publicity, and it will not
be an easy ride for the council. 5 to 4 vote suggests divided opinion.
I anticipate 5% maximum take up on refunds unless the media help!

Coppergate prohibited motor scheme, the only one the council appealed the adjudicator's decision on, was far worse. That appeal decision is not imminent, as per TPT to-day, so the PCN saga goes on.

Currently Coppergate's CCTVs are turned off; so just how confident are the council having spent £11k plus on legal advice, nearly a year too late.

Either 5 City of York Councillors have no common sense, knowledge of council staff workings or no business acumen:-

Voted 5 to 4 in favour of making people apply for Lendal bridge fine refunds.

This means 3 times extra work for their friends in Northampton at Northgate who will have to:-
Task 1) Administer the refund requests
Normally Unnecessary-task 2) Weedle out any fraudulent claims (a doubling of chargeable task 1.
3) Tripple check who actually paid the fine as that is who MUST be refunded.

Three times the Work and Three Times the Bill.

Wonder to whom Northgate? (If that's the correct name) and how? They will say Thank you?

[quote][p][bold]Cheeky face[/bold] wrote:
This is not the end at all. The media can give wider publicity, and it will not
be an easy ride for the council. 5 to 4 vote suggests divided opinion.
I anticipate 5% maximum take up on refunds unless the media help!
Coppergate prohibited motor scheme, the only one the council appealed the adjudicator's decision on, was far worse. That appeal decision is not imminent, as per TPT to-day, so the PCN saga goes on.
Currently Coppergate's CCTVs are turned off; so just how confident are the council having spent £11k plus on legal advice, nearly a year too late.[/p][/quote]Either 5 City of York Councillors have no common sense, knowledge of council staff workings or no business acumen:-
Voted 5 to 4 in favour of making people apply for Lendal bridge fine refunds.
This means 3 times extra work for their friends in Northampton at Northgate who will have to:-
Task 1) Administer the refund requests
Normally Unnecessary-task 2) Weedle out any fraudulent claims (a doubling of chargeable task 1.
3) Tripple check who actually paid the fine as that is who MUST be refunded.
Three times the Work and Three Times the Bill.
Wonder to whom Northgate? (If that's the correct name) and how? They will say Thank you?KevinWard59

Back and Beyond wrote:
I hope all those affected charge an administration charge of their own for the time spent having to reclaim the money that is rightfully theirs.

£9.25 an hour plus expenses is allowed through the small claims Court....

Suggest Mr Loophole could draft a sample notice of intended proceedings to be published throughout the country so all can reclaim through the county courts?

[quote][p][bold]Back and Beyond[/bold] wrote:
I hope all those affected charge an administration charge of their own for the time spent having to reclaim the money that is rightfully theirs.
£9.25 an hour plus expenses is allowed through the small claims Court....[/p][/quote]Suggest Mr Loophole could draft a sample notice of intended proceedings to be published throughout the country so all can reclaim through the county courts?KevinWard59

strangebuttrue? wrote:
Well what did anyone expect. After all if they just repaid all the fines it would be like admitting they were illegal. Now who was it who said they would resign if the fines were illegal? Oh yes the perpetrator of this shambles Mr Merrett.

What we need to know now is how much is going to be spent administering this in order to make sure Mr Merrett does not have to stick to his word.

Cllr D Merrett only volunteered to resign if he was found wrong in a review that was never even made contrary to the public claims to the media.

There is a word for people who are untruthful in this manner.

[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote:
Well what did anyone expect. After all if they just repaid all the fines it would be like admitting they were illegal. Now who was it who said they would resign if the fines were illegal? Oh yes the perpetrator of this shambles Mr Merrett.
What we need to know now is how much is going to be spent administering this in order to make sure Mr Merrett does not have to stick to his word.[/p][/quote]Cllr D Merrett only volunteered to resign if he was found wrong in a review that was never even made contrary to the public claims to the media.
There is a word for people who are untruthful in this manner.KevinWard59

mel_drew wrote:
And are the council going to write to all of the victims to inform them of the need to apply for their own money back?

No they said not, because it would cost more than just repaying all the fines !

Either 5 City of York Councillors have no common sense, knowledge of council staff workings or no business acumen:-

Voted 5 to 4 in favour of making people apply for Lendal bridge fine refunds.

This means 3 times extra work for their friends in Northampton at Northgate who will have to:-
Task 1) Administer the refund requests
Normally Unnecessary-task 2) Weedle out any fraudulent claims (a doubling of chargeable task 1.
3) Tripple check who actually paid the fine as that is who MUST be refunded.

Three times the Work and Three Times the Bill.

Wonder to whom Northgate? (If that's the correct name) and how? They will say Thank you?

[quote][p][bold]Ichabod76[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]mel_drew[/bold] wrote:
And are the council going to write to all of the victims to inform them of the need to apply for their own money back?[/p][/quote]No they said not, because it would cost more than just repaying all the fines ![/p][/quote]Either 5 City of York Councillors have no common sense, knowledge of council staff workings or no business acumen:-
Voted 5 to 4 in favour of making people apply for Lendal bridge fine refunds.
This means 3 times extra work for their friends in Northampton at Northgate who will have to:-
Task 1) Administer the refund requests
Normally Unnecessary-task 2) Weedle out any fraudulent claims (a doubling of chargeable task 1.
3) Tripple check who actually paid the fine as that is who MUST be refunded.
Three times the Work and Three Times the Bill.
Wonder to whom Northgate? (If that's the correct name) and how? They will say Thank you?KevinWard59

I urge and implore EVERYONE with a Facebook account to share this story, Lets get it viral - then hopefully more people across the UK will know they have to apply for a refund

City of York Council - I am ashamed of you, so ashamed I have e-mailed the Labour Party and told them I will NEVER vote Labour again thanks to Mr James Alexander (Leader of City of York Council) and his Labour cronies!

I urge and implore EVERYONE with a Facebook account to share this story, Lets get it viral - then hopefully more people across the UK will know they have to apply for a refund
City of York Council - I am ashamed of you, so ashamed I have e-mailed the Labour Party and told them I will NEVER vote Labour again thanks to Mr James Alexander (Leader of City of York Council) and his Labour cronies!Kelvar

eeoodares wrote:
If the Bridge fines were lawfully issued and the monies collected, why are the Council giving away free money?

Problem is Sir that only a few with a vested interest THINK they were legal.

Quite a large number o people WHO CAN READ have seen the TRUTH come out in Freedom of a Information Responses via the Publicly accessible site whatdotheyknow (dot) com

[quote][p][bold]eeoodares[/bold] wrote:
If the Bridge fines were lawfully issued and the monies collected, why are the Council giving away free money?[/p][/quote]Problem is Sir that only a few with a vested interest THINK they were legal.
Quite a large number o people WHO CAN READ have seen the TRUTH come out in Freedom of a Information Responses via the Publicly accessible site whatdotheyknow (dot) comKevinWard59

A little surprised at one or two of the names on the list of Labour councillors who voted against refunds. Well, one anyway. I'd hoped that there were at least some of the old guard who would resist toeing the line, but apparently not.

It's a mystery to me why these old stalwarts have allowed their party to be taken over by the useless incompetents who are now ruining this city.

A little surprised at one or two of the names on the list of Labour councillors who voted against refunds. Well, one anyway. I'd hoped that there were at least some of the old guard who would resist toeing the line, but apparently not.
It's a mystery to me why these old stalwarts have allowed their party to be taken over by the useless incompetents who are now ruining this city.mel_drew

This is disgusting, embarrassing and most certainly against the law. By not returning the illegally obtained money, City Of York Council are committing extortion. They must be hauled before the courts.

This is disgusting, embarrassing and most certainly against the law. By not returning the illegally obtained money, City Of York Council are committing extortion. They must be hauled before the courts.Jalymo

Thief breaks into your home by night and steals cash, jewelery and a variety of other valuables.

Thief is caught by police.

Thief is convicted in court.

Thief is imprisoned.

Now you, the victim, must write a "please may I have my property back" letter to the thief.

Perhaps not "Broken Britain" but most certainly "Broken York".

Analogy the clouncil cannot deny:
Thief breaks into your home by night and steals cash, jewelery and a variety of other valuables.
Thief is caught by police.
Thief is convicted in court.
Thief is imprisoned.
Now you, the victim, must write a "please may I have my property back" letter to the thief.
Perhaps not "Broken Britain" but most certainly "Broken York".velvetdixie

I tried the ombudsman service. You need to have been fined; so they could not help my questions based on the interests of fairness.

[quote][p][bold]mack[/bold] wrote:
A job for the Ombudsman?[/p][/quote]I tried the ombudsman service. You need to have been fined; so they could not help my questions based on the interests of fairness.Cheeky face

mel_drew wrote:
A little surprised at one or two of the names on the list of Labour councillors who voted against refunds. Well, one anyway. I'd hoped that there were at least some of the old guard who would resist toeing the line, but apparently not.

It's a mystery to me why these old stalwarts have allowed their party to be taken over by the useless incompetents who are now ruining this city.

I have to agree with your comment, the one councilor I thought would vote with his conscience was Ken King, however it appears I am wrong, he was either instructed to vote that way or I misjudged the man.
I find the decision completely incomprehensible, the councils arrogance in this matter knows no bounds in my opinion, they were told the way they had implemented the fines was illegal by the goverment traffic adjudicator, but they ignored that and said they were going to seek legal advice and mount a challenge, that was then dropped when they realised they were in the wrong, but used the term 'as a gesture of goodwil we will repay the fines to those who applied', now it has had the official stamp of approval they think that all is ok, well it's not, I am ashamed of this council who run my city, I use 'my' in the context that I was born here.
I put the blame on two people JAMES ALEXANDER and DAVID MERRETT, they should be ashamed of them selves, but I suspect they do not give a fig for their actions.
The only hope left is that one of the motorists who was illegally fined can mount a legal response to this decision, if that is at all possible, come you legal eagles who read these comments, is that an option?

[quote][p][bold]mel_drew[/bold] wrote:
A little surprised at one or two of the names on the list of Labour councillors who voted against refunds. Well, one anyway. I'd hoped that there were at least some of the old guard who would resist toeing the line, but apparently not.
It's a mystery to me why these old stalwarts have allowed their party to be taken over by the useless incompetents who are now ruining this city.[/p][/quote]I have to agree with your comment, the one councilor I thought would vote with his conscience was Ken King, however it appears I am wrong, he was either instructed to vote that way or I misjudged the man.
I find the decision completely incomprehensible, the councils arrogance in this matter knows no bounds in my opinion, they were told the way they had implemented the fines was illegal by the goverment traffic adjudicator, but they ignored that and said they were going to seek legal advice and mount a challenge, that was then dropped when they realised they were in the wrong, but used the term 'as a gesture of goodwil we will repay the fines to those who applied', now it has had the official stamp of approval they think that all is ok, well it's not, I am ashamed of this council who run my city, I use 'my' in the context that I was born here.
I put the blame on two people JAMES ALEXANDER and DAVID MERRETT, they should be ashamed of them selves, but I suspect they do not give a fig for their actions.
The only hope left is that one of the motorists who was illegally fined can mount a legal response to this decision, if that is at all possible, come you legal eagles who read these comments, is that an option?notpedallingpaul

Silver wrote:
I'm rather annoyed by this decision. When you've made a mistake that cost a lot of people money. The only honourable response is to repay it whilst apologising. Any other action is wrong. Ok I'm never voting for Labour in York again sorry York Labour Party but I cannot in good conscience ever put a vote for labour in this area ever again. Party of the people pfft!

Fully agree with you. I have always been a Labour supporter in council elections. I will never vote for them again. They are dishonourable and a shambles.

[quote][p][bold]Silver[/bold] wrote:
I'm rather annoyed by this decision. When you've made a mistake that cost a lot of people money. The only honourable response is to repay it whilst apologising. Any other action is wrong. Ok I'm never voting for Labour in York again sorry York Labour Party but I cannot in good conscience ever put a vote for labour in this area ever again. Party of the people pfft![/p][/quote]Fully agree with you. I have always been a Labour supporter in council elections. I will never vote for them again. They are dishonourable and a shambles.Basher69

Disappointed to see our local councillor voted against it, but then he is not much help to anyone, cannot get in touch with him by phone and emails seem to be ignored, so guess who will not get my vote.

Disappointed to see our local councillor voted against it, but then he is not much help to anyone, cannot get in touch with him by phone and emails seem to be ignored, so guess who will not get my vote.yorkie0802

Thief breaks into your home by night and steals cash, jewelery and a variety of other valuables.

Thief is caught by police.

Thief is convicted in court.

Thief is imprisoned.

Now you, the victim, must write a "please may I have my property back" letter to the thief.

Perhaps not "Broken Britain" but most certainly "Broken York".’

Analogy is very good but the reality is:
Thief gets away with your goods.
Police never attempt to find them and fob you off.
The odd one they do catch goes before a court who give them a fine of £100 he cannot or likely will not pay.
Goes back before a court for non-payment of fines and gets sent on a canoe weekend at the tax payers expense.
You never see your goods or trust the system again.
Morale of the story – bury them in the corner of a quite field, problem gone away for everyone.

Back on topic – get rid of the council – they are the root cause, it worked in the story above!

‘velvetdixie says...
Analogy the clouncil cannot deny:
Thief breaks into your home by night and steals cash, jewelery and a variety of other valuables.
Thief is caught by police.
Thief is convicted in court.
Thief is imprisoned.
Now you, the victim, must write a "please may I have my property back" letter to the thief.
Perhaps not "Broken Britain" but most certainly "Broken York".’
Analogy is very good but the reality is:
Thief gets away with your goods.
Police never attempt to find them and fob you off.
The odd one they do catch goes before a court who give them a fine of £100 he cannot or likely will not pay.
Goes back before a court for non-payment of fines and gets sent on a canoe weekend at the tax payers expense.
You never see your goods or trust the system again.
Morale of the story – bury them in the corner of a quite field, problem gone away for everyone.
Back on topic – get rid of the council – they are the root cause, it worked in the story above!Kevin Turvey

5 Labour Councillors have used their majority to force an unsound situation. What they have just voted in was never really a valid option. They are avoiding the real issue, which is to decide if they think the PCNs are legal or illegal. Once they make that decision, their course of action becomes clear.

If the Council believe the PCNs are illegal, then they should refund everyone automatically. Saying "there is no dispute until a refund is applied for" is rubbish, the PCNs should be automatically in dispute by reason of being illegal.

If the Council still believe the PCNs are legal, then they should go through the proper legal process and only refund if they lose. Personally, I think they would eventually lose, but at least we'd know where we stood.

What they have actually done is said we think the PCNs are legal, but we will refund anyone who asks. I don't personally agree with their thinking, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and look at it from that point of view.

If the PCNs are legal, what mandate do the Council have for making goodwill payments using a huge chunk of lawfully obtained public money?

Effectively, the vote Labour have just forced through is "Although we think we have no need or obligation to spend this money, and we will get nothing in return, we want to spend it anyway"

5 Labour Councillors have used their majority to force an unsound situation. What they have just voted in was never really a valid option. They are avoiding the real issue, which is to decide if they think the PCNs are legal or illegal. Once they make that decision, their course of action becomes clear.
If the Council believe the PCNs are illegal, then they should refund everyone automatically. Saying "there is no dispute until a refund is applied for" is rubbish, the PCNs should be automatically in dispute by reason of being illegal.
If the Council still believe the PCNs are legal, then they should go through the proper legal process and only refund if they lose. Personally, I think they would eventually lose, but at least we'd know where we stood.
What they have actually done is said we think the PCNs are legal, but we will refund anyone who asks. I don't personally agree with their thinking, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and look at it from that point of view.
If the PCNs are legal, what mandate do the Council have for making goodwill payments using a huge chunk of lawfully obtained public money?
Effectively, the vote Labour have just forced through is "Although we think we have no need or obligation to spend this money, and we will get nothing in return, we want to spend it anyway"the original Homer

You have to admire the brass neck of these 'officials'. Firstly they 'steal' money through an illegal scam and when instructed to pay back money taken through 'theft', they then have the nerve to ask for people to go cap In hand to them asking for what was 'rightfully' theirs to be returned.

What a joke this Labour council is. I will never vote Labour again I promise !!

You have to admire the brass neck of these 'officials'. Firstly they 'steal' money through an illegal scam and when instructed to pay back money taken through 'theft', they then have the nerve to ask for people to go cap In hand to them asking for what was 'rightfully' theirs to be returned.
What a joke this Labour council is. I will never vote Labour again I promise !!The Junkyard Angel

Kelvar wrote:
I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable!

Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments

[quote][p][bold]Kelvar[/bold] wrote:
I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable![/p][/quote]Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many commentsthinkingoutsidethebox

It seems to me that a local solicitor should start up a campaign for a class action against the Council for an immediate return of all these illegally taken and held funds. Whatever direct refund plus administrative costs to the Council are involved in a total refund of such monies is immaterial, they cannot use cost as a basis for some attempted illegal withholding of monies due to motorists.

The solicitor could advertise for motorists wrongly charged to provide their particular details and draw up schedules and overall cost details, including refund values. The actual costs to the Council, and hence local Council Tax payers, including all YCC and claimant's legal and administration cost estimates could then be publicised in the local press and on local radio and TV in time for next year's Local Council Elections. Let the electorate see, yet again, blatant evidence of a further massive amount of taxpayers' money this Council wasted through the sheer ineptitude and bad judgement of both Labour Councillors and senior Local Government civil servants!

It seems to me that a local solicitor should start up a campaign for a class action against the Council for an immediate return of all these illegally taken and held funds. Whatever direct refund plus administrative costs to the Council are involved in a total refund of such monies is immaterial, they cannot use cost as a basis for some attempted illegal withholding of monies due to motorists.
The solicitor could advertise for motorists wrongly charged to provide their particular details and draw up schedules and overall cost details, including refund values. The actual costs to the Council, and hence local Council Tax payers, including all YCC and claimant's legal and administration cost estimates could then be publicised in the local press and on local radio and TV in time for next year's Local Council Elections. Let the electorate see, yet again, blatant evidence of a further massive amount of taxpayers' money this Council wasted through the sheer ineptitude and bad judgement of both Labour Councillors and senior Local Government civil servants!uriahh

Chapelfields Magic wrote:
WHAT A DISGRACE. A DISGRACE THESE LABOUR CROOKS ARE STILL IN POWER. MONEY SHOULD NOT BE WASTED ON THIS DEBATE. MONEY SHOULD HAVE AUTOMATICALLY GONE BACK TO THE VICTIMS OF THIS.

I voted Labour last time but this is the final nail - come next May anybody but Labour can have my vote (well maybe not the Lib Dems!) I will vote tactically and hope other residents will to rid us of Ali xander and his (almost) 40 thieves!

[quote][p][bold]Chapelfields Magic[/bold] wrote:
WHAT A DISGRACE. A DISGRACE THESE LABOUR CROOKS ARE STILL IN POWER. MONEY SHOULD NOT BE WASTED ON THIS DEBATE. MONEY SHOULD HAVE AUTOMATICALLY GONE BACK TO THE VICTIMS OF THIS.
Labour - Cllr David Horton - voted AGAINST refunding
Labour - Cllr Ruth Potter - voted AGAINST refunding
Labour - Cllr Ken King - voted AGAINST refunding
Labour - Cllr Neil Barnes - voted AGAINST refunding
Labour - Cllr Steve Burton - voted AGAINST refunding
WHY ARE THESE CROOKS STILL IN POWER??????
I HOPE EVERY SINGLE YORK RESIDENT WILL VOTE AGAINST LABOUR NEXT TIME.[/p][/quote]I voted Labour last time but this is the final nail - come next May anybody but Labour can have my vote (well maybe not the Lib Dems!) I will vote tactically and hope other residents will to rid us of Ali xander and his (almost) 40 thieves!Dr Brian

Labour have also lost 3 votes in our household, thanks to there none listening attitude and crazy money spending schemes, ( we know which ones). Also there cost cutting and planned charging on necessary services and sites.

We all say that they are as bad as each other, but you have to make a decision how is the least bad for the city and for us we are going to vote the Lib - dems at local level.
At national level this bunch of clowns has also taken me away from ever voting Labour again .

Labour have also lost 3 votes in our household, thanks to there none listening attitude and crazy money spending schemes, ( we know which ones). Also there cost cutting and planned charging on necessary services and sites.
We all say that they are as bad as each other, but you have to make a decision how is the least bad for the city and for us we are going to vote the Lib - dems at local level.
At national level this bunch of clowns has also taken me away from ever voting Labour again .courier46

Kelvar wrote: I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable!

Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments

I think its the same sad individual playing tricks, its fun to see them going from minus to plus in seconds, nobody takes any notice now anyway, when they are able to alter your comment is the time to start worrying, you know, Big Brother and all that, mind you it would not surprise me in the least if some of our email addresses were on the council black list?

[quote][p][bold]thinkingoutsidethebo
x[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Kelvar[/bold] wrote: I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable![/p][/quote]Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments[/p][/quote]I think its the same sad individual playing tricks, its fun to see them going from minus to plus in seconds, nobody takes any notice now anyway, when they are able to alter your comment is the time to start worrying, you know, Big Brother and all that, mind you it would not surprise me in the least if some of our email addresses were on the council black list?notpedallingpaul

What a bunch of Incompetents they are. No dispute exists said a labour spokesman, until a claim is made?

The whole charade was illegal. A ruse to generate money to offset the continual waste of the public purse. Now, they want the visitors who have been fined to make a claim? I hope the Council will be writing to the tens of thousands, to inform them that they can. Short of this will be correctly seen as underhand, unfair, greedy, and highly immoral.

What a bunch of Incompetents they are. No dispute exists said a labour spokesman, until a claim is made?
The whole charade was illegal. A ruse to generate money to offset the continual waste of the public purse. Now, they want the visitors who have been fined to make a claim? I hope the Council will be writing to the tens of thousands, to inform them that they can. Short of this will be correctly seen as underhand, unfair, greedy, and highly immoral.Yorkborneinbse

Kelvar wrote: I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable!

Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments

I think its the same sad individual playing tricks, its fun to see them going from minus to plus in seconds, nobody takes any notice now anyway, when they are able to alter your comment is the time to start worrying, you know, Big Brother and all that, mind you it would not surprise me in the least if some of our email addresses were on the council black list?

yes - with you on that one. However most of us are not to blame for the very unfortunate circumstances the council have brought upon this city............and when they do finally go (as they must) we, and our offspring, will be paying through the nose for years for all the madcap decisions they have inflicted. If someone has my e-mail address who shouldn't have it - will they be in yet more hot water I wonder - data protection and all that

[quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]thinkingoutsidethebo
x[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Kelvar[/bold] wrote: I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable![/p][/quote]Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments[/p][/quote]I think its the same sad individual playing tricks, its fun to see them going from minus to plus in seconds, nobody takes any notice now anyway, when they are able to alter your comment is the time to start worrying, you know, Big Brother and all that, mind you it would not surprise me in the least if some of our email addresses were on the council black list?[/p][/quote]yes - with you on that one. However most of us are not to blame for the very unfortunate circumstances the council have brought upon this city............and when they do finally go (as they must) we, and our offspring, will be paying through the nose for years for all the madcap decisions they have inflicted. If someone has my e-mail address who shouldn't have it - will they be in yet more hot water I wonder - data protection and all thatthinkingoutsidethebox

In my eyes the Councillors listed along with Merrett and the leaders of the Council are all part of a scheme that obtained and is holding onto money gained by Illegal means and should be Investigated for fraud.
It is clear by their actions they have intentions to refund as little as possible as the refund policy they have put forward is only likely to be viewed by local people leaving the majority of visitors fined Illegally unaware they are entitled to a refund,

In my eyes the Councillors listed along with Merrett and the leaders of the Council are all part of a scheme that obtained and is holding onto money gained by Illegal means and should be Investigated for fraud.
It is clear by their actions they have intentions to refund as little as possible as the refund policy they have put forward is only likely to be viewed by local people leaving the majority of visitors fined Illegally unaware they are entitled to a refund,m dee

Well,Well,Well. By not automatically paying back these unlawfully obtained monies,YCC are trying their damdest to hang on to as much of this money as they possibly can.After all this time,how many people will still be able to produce proof of their entitlement to a refund.The 5 councillors who voted against should resign. Make the most of it as you will not p be councillors next time round.

Well,Well,Well. By not automatically paying back these unlawfully obtained monies,YCC are trying their damdest to hang on to as much of this money as they possibly can.After all this time,how many people will still be able to produce proof of their entitlement to a refund.The 5 councillors who voted against should resign. Make the most of it as you will not p be councillors next time round.roysterman69

m dee wrote:
In my eyes the Councillors listed along with Merrett and the leaders of the Council are all part of a scheme that obtained and is holding onto money gained by Illegal means and should be Investigated for fraud. It is clear by their actions they have intentions to refund as little as possible as the refund policy they have put forward is only likely to be viewed by local people leaving the majority of visitors fined Illegally unaware they are entitled to a refund,

It was mentioned on the BBC1 Look North News last night, but no details of how you apply for your money back, what it needs as someone has already said is to get all facebook and other social contact groups to work together to expose this scandalous decision by the City of York Council to as many people in this country - and the world for that matter - show them up for what they are.
PS wonder what Milliband thinks of his labour councils now eh?

[quote][p][bold]m dee[/bold] wrote:
In my eyes the Councillors listed along with Merrett and the leaders of the Council are all part of a scheme that obtained and is holding onto money gained by Illegal means and should be Investigated for fraud. It is clear by their actions they have intentions to refund as little as possible as the refund policy they have put forward is only likely to be viewed by local people leaving the majority of visitors fined Illegally unaware they are entitled to a refund,[/p][/quote]It was mentioned on the BBC1 Look North News last night, but no details of how you apply for your money back, what it needs as someone has already said is to get all facebook and other social contact groups to work together to expose this scandalous decision by the City of York Council to as many people in this country - and the world for that matter - show them up for what they are.
PS wonder what Milliband thinks of his labour councils now eh?notpedallingpaul

bolero wrote:
No comment from the Pedaller. Must be too busy altering the scores. Trying to put us off his trail by adjusting upwards for a change.

Did anybody hear Alexander on Radio York - they have done no wrong re Lendal Bridge - they did not act illegally, they blame the opposition for slowing the payment process out people could have had their money earlier, but he could not answer how much it would have cost to directly refund the fines as opposed to how much it will cost to implement the system voted for last night! Unbelievable! Surely that information should have been available at the meeting last night as part of the decision making process.

[quote][p][bold]bolero[/bold] wrote:
No comment from the Pedaller. Must be too busy altering the scores. Trying to put us off his trail by adjusting upwards for a change.[/p][/quote]Did anybody hear Alexander on Radio York - they have done no wrong re Lendal Bridge - they did not act illegally, they blame the opposition for slowing the payment process out people could have had their money earlier, but he could not answer how much it would have cost to directly refund the fines as opposed to how much it will cost to implement the system voted for last night! Unbelievable! Surely that information should have been available at the meeting last night as part of the decision making process.Dr Brian

Well Blow Me Down.No surprise on the vote then.As many have said this is nothing short of theft.By making people claim,by making it difficult to claim says to me that CYC is doing it's armrest to hang on to as much of this illegal money as it possibly can.The 5 Labour councillors who voted against should resign because believe me you will not be in office next time round,nor will there be a Labour council in charge of York. So,you 5 along with Alexander and Merrett do the right thing And Go.Just one last thing,I hope you are going to share out the interest you have made on this illegally obtained money amongst all the motorists you trapped and caused them grief,upset and worry.

Well Blow Me Down.No surprise on the vote then.As many have said this is nothing short of theft.By making people claim,by making it difficult to claim says to me that CYC is doing it's armrest to hang on to as much of this illegal money as it possibly can.The 5 Labour councillors who voted against should resign because believe me you will not be in office next time round,nor will there be a Labour council in charge of York. So,you 5 along with Alexander and Merrett do the right thing And Go.Just one last thing,I hope you are going to share out the interest you have made on this illegally obtained money amongst all the motorists you trapped and caused them grief,upset and worry.roysterman69

Wow look an example of a local council that is full corruption. Normally I would never jump the corruption bandwagon but this a prime example of it. Can you imagine if this happened in the private sector. I bet the local council would be throwing all their power behind stopping the business trading. I think it's time the people of York spoke up and ran a motion of 'no confidence' in the current local government. In addition has anyone taken the time to use 'freedom of information' to find out how many of these fines are from those outside of 'YO' postcode area.

Wow look an example of a local council that is full corruption. Normally I would never jump the corruption bandwagon but this a prime example of it. Can you imagine if this happened in the private sector. I bet the local council would be throwing all their power behind stopping the business trading. I think it's time the people of York spoke up and ran a motion of 'no confidence' in the current local government. In addition has anyone taken the time to use 'freedom of information' to find out how many of these fines are from those outside of 'YO' postcode area.TheJorvik

Sorry, haven't had time to read all of the comments, but isn't it more costly in terms of administration if people need to apply for the return of their money. I thought it might have cost less of the fines were simply repaid? Money, thrown after a costly scheme, which cost more than it earned! I'm stunned that nobody involved has been censured over this debacle.

Sorry, haven't had time to read all of the comments, but isn't it more costly in terms of administration if people need to apply for the return of their money. I thought it might have cost less of the fines were simply repaid? Money, thrown after a costly scheme, which cost more than it earned! I'm stunned that nobody involved has been censured over this debacle.whitehorse

Please Editor as "The Evening Press" is only p[art of a larger conglomerate can they release the story (Nation Wide) so that at least UK people can claim, then Hopefully International Papers and even TV get the story. For the Traffic Dept of the COUNCIL l, well YOU Have the "FINE" details , address on Computer all it takes is USE the basic program, weather post or E Mail. Is it that Diffucult. An old saying ("KEEP IT SIMPLE") ....

Please Editor as "The Evening Press" is only p[art of a larger conglomerate can they release the story (Nation Wide) so that at least UK people can claim, then Hopefully International Papers and even TV get the story. For the Traffic Dept of the COUNCIL l, well YOU Have the "FINE" details , address on Computer all it takes is USE the basic program, weather post or E Mail. Is it that Diffucult. An old saying ("KEEP IT SIMPLE") ....Dave Ruddock

bill bailey wrote:
When Alexsander returns to the tills in Pound Shop Now he knows how to fiddle do you think he'll have a go there,?????

Yes Sir, everything's a pound, but we only take notes, we don't give change and we have a limit of 4 items per customer.

And you!! - stop walking so fast, didn't you see the "2 is too much" signs?

[quote][p][bold]bill bailey[/bold] wrote:
When Alexsander returns to the tills in Pound Shop Now he knows how to fiddle do you think he'll have a go there,?????[/p][/quote]Yes Sir, everything's a pound, but we only take notes, we don't give change and we have a limit of 4 items per customer.
And you!! - stop walking so fast, didn't you see the "2 is too much" signs?the original Homer

Kelvar wrote: I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable!

Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments

I think its the same sad individual playing tricks, its fun to see them going from minus to plus in seconds, nobody takes any notice now anyway, when they are able to alter your comment is the time to start worrying, you know, Big Brother and all that, mind you it would not surprise me in the least if some of our email addresses were on the council black list?

yes - with you on that one. However most of us are not to blame for the very unfortunate circumstances the council have brought upon this city............and when they do finally go (as they must) we, and our offspring, will be paying through the nose for years for all the madcap decisions they have inflicted. If someone has my e-mail address who shouldn't have it - will they be in yet more hot water I wonder - data protection and all that

Someone once commented - I think it was BFH96 - that the council should be judged on their achievements and not their faults, I can't think of any achievements off the top of my head, can you, unless of course you class this council 'cabinet' of achieving the distinction of being the most incompetent set of individuals ever!

[quote][p][bold]thinkingoutsidethebo
x[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thinkingoutsidethebo x[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kelvar[/bold] wrote: I see the 'Mark Down Monkey' is earning his keep tonight! minus -89 in twenty minutes!! That is also (like CYC) laughable![/p][/quote]Ha ha ha.......Kelvar look at the revised scores on the doors. Someone very clever has clipped markdownmonkeys wings. 2000 and counting positives on so many comments[/p][/quote]I think its the same sad individual playing tricks, its fun to see them going from minus to plus in seconds, nobody takes any notice now anyway, when they are able to alter your comment is the time to start worrying, you know, Big Brother and all that, mind you it would not surprise me in the least if some of our email addresses were on the council black list?[/p][/quote]yes - with you on that one. However most of us are not to blame for the very unfortunate circumstances the council have brought upon this city............and when they do finally go (as they must) we, and our offspring, will be paying through the nose for years for all the madcap decisions they have inflicted. If someone has my e-mail address who shouldn't have it - will they be in yet more hot water I wonder - data protection and all that[/p][/quote]Someone once commented - I think it was BFH96 - that the council should be judged on their achievements and not their faults, I can't think of any achievements off the top of my head, can you, unless of course you class this council 'cabinet' of achieving the distinction of being the most incompetent set of individuals ever!notpedallingpaul

If the Council cannot do the decent thing and automatically refund everyone who has been fined through their own faulty policy. Then perhaps this injustice should be publicised on:

Facebook;
Twitter;

and all the hoteliers and B&B should do their job for them by notifying all their visitors who may well have been a victim of this injustice. This will at least show these visitors we are sorry if their visit to York was tainted by this absurd fine. It will also generate goodwill and hopefully those who pledged never to visit again will come and enjoy our City again. penalised whilst expecting to enjoy their should be put

If the Council cannot do the decent thing and automatically refund everyone who has been fined through their own faulty policy. Then perhaps this injustice should be publicised on:
Facebook;
Twitter;
and all the hoteliers and B&B should do their job for them by notifying all their visitors who may well have been a victim of this injustice. This will at least show these visitors we are sorry if their visit to York was tainted by this absurd fine. It will also generate goodwill and hopefully those who pledged never to visit again will come and enjoy our City again. penalised whilst expecting to enjoy their should be putstephen123

Illegally fined, a ruling which hasn't been challenged by the council and now they have to apply to have their money returned? This is so wrong. Furthermore by keeping any money from these illegal fines is also illegal.

I question why only 9 councillors voted. On this issue, i feel that all councilllors should have a vote and hopefully the right we may get the moral outcome.

Labour, once again, show what an incompetent party they are.

Illegally fined, a ruling which hasn't been challenged by the council and now they have to apply to have their money returned? This is so wrong. Furthermore by keeping any money from these illegal fines is also illegal.
I question why only 9 councillors voted. On this issue, i feel that all councilllors should have a vote and hopefully the right we may get the moral outcome.
Labour, once again, show what an incompetent party they are.buzzy_bee

Caecilius wrote:
It'll be interesting to see how many of the people who claimed they couldn't understand the signage are capable of following the instructions for applying for a refund.

It would be interesting to know how many clowncillors actually bothered to check the mess they implemented was actually legal before they went ahead with it and as for the signage well that was a badly uncoordinated mess to start with and was deemed not up to standard by the correct authority! If it had been done properly maybe they wouldn't be in this hole and wouldn't have to pay any back leaving lots of money to be wasted on pointless 20mph signs that very very few people actually want! If I was as incompetent at my job I would unemployable by now!

[quote][p][bold]Caecilius[/bold] wrote:
It'll be interesting to see how many of the people who claimed they couldn't understand the signage are capable of following the instructions for applying for a refund.[/p][/quote]It would be interesting to know how many clowncillors actually bothered to check the mess they implemented was actually legal before they went ahead with it and as for the signage well that was a badly uncoordinated mess to start with and was deemed not up to standard by the correct authority! If it had been done properly maybe they wouldn't be in this hole and wouldn't have to pay any back leaving lots of money to be wasted on pointless 20mph signs that very very few people actually want! If I was as incompetent at my job I would unemployable by now!Wolfofwhipmawhopmagate

The fines should be reimbursed automatically. However as we have seen recently with CPP and PPI claims the burden always falls on on the victim to come forward rather than those responsible for the mess in the first place!

The fines should be reimbursed automatically. However as we have seen recently with CPP and PPI claims the burden always falls on on the victim to come forward rather than those responsible for the mess in the first place!perplexed

mel_drew wrote:
A little surprised at one or two of the names on the list of Labour councillors who voted against refunds. Well, one anyway. I'd hoped that there were at least some of the old guard who would resist toeing the line, but apparently not.

It's a mystery to me why these old stalwarts have allowed their party to be taken over by the useless incompetents who are now ruining this city.

I have to agree with your comment, the one councilor I thought would vote with his conscience was Ken King, however it appears I am wrong, he was either instructed to vote that way or I misjudged the man.
I find the decision completely incomprehensible, the councils arrogance in this matter knows no bounds in my opinion, they were told the way they had implemented the fines was illegal by the goverment traffic adjudicator, but they ignored that and said they were going to seek legal advice and mount a challenge, that was then dropped when they realised they were in the wrong, but used the term 'as a gesture of goodwil we will repay the fines to those who applied', now it has had the official stamp of approval they think that all is ok, well it's not, I am ashamed of this council who run my city, I use 'my' in the context that I was born here.
I put the blame on two people JAMES ALEXANDER and DAVID MERRETT, they should be ashamed of them selves, but I suspect they do not give a fig for their actions.
The only hope left is that one of the motorists who was illegally fined can mount a legal response to this decision, if that is at all possible, come you legal eagles who read these comments, is that an option?

Agreed.

Malarkey and Rhodes have had appeals adjudicated in their favour.

CAN ANYONE GET HOLD OF THEM? It would be interesting to see council's corres on these claims for refunds/appeals.

[quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]mel_drew[/bold] wrote:
A little surprised at one or two of the names on the list of Labour councillors who voted against refunds. Well, one anyway. I'd hoped that there were at least some of the old guard who would resist toeing the line, but apparently not.
It's a mystery to me why these old stalwarts have allowed their party to be taken over by the useless incompetents who are now ruining this city.[/p][/quote]I have to agree with your comment, the one councilor I thought would vote with his conscience was Ken King, however it appears I am wrong, he was either instructed to vote that way or I misjudged the man.
I find the decision completely incomprehensible, the councils arrogance in this matter knows no bounds in my opinion, they were told the way they had implemented the fines was illegal by the goverment traffic adjudicator, but they ignored that and said they were going to seek legal advice and mount a challenge, that was then dropped when they realised they were in the wrong, but used the term 'as a gesture of goodwil we will repay the fines to those who applied', now it has had the official stamp of approval they think that all is ok, well it's not, I am ashamed of this council who run my city, I use 'my' in the context that I was born here.
I put the blame on two people JAMES ALEXANDER and DAVID MERRETT, they should be ashamed of them selves, but I suspect they do not give a fig for their actions.
The only hope left is that one of the motorists who was illegally fined can mount a legal response to this decision, if that is at all possible, come you legal eagles who read these comments, is that an option?[/p][/quote]Agreed.
Malarkey and Rhodes have had appeals adjudicated in their favour.
CAN ANYONE GET HOLD OF THEM? It would be interesting to see council's corres on these claims for refunds/appeals.Cheeky face

Labour leader of the City of York Council James Alexander claimed the council had acted correctly over the refunds and blamed opposition parties for delaying repayments.

"We want to be able to pay back those fines and people can contact us," he said.

"We would have started that four weeks ago if it was left to us but the opposition decided to drag that out even further."

The council said it was still working out the process of how people can claim back their penalties".

So you'd have started paying the fines weeks ago, but you don't know the process yet? Right ok.

Quote from the BBC article:
Labour leader of the City of York Council James Alexander claimed the council had acted correctly over the refunds and blamed opposition parties for delaying repayments.
"We want to be able to pay back those fines and people can contact us," he said.
"We would have started that four weeks ago if it was left to us but the opposition decided to drag that out even further."
The council said it was still working out the process of how people can claim back their penalties".
So you'd have started paying the fines weeks ago, but you don't know the process yet? Right ok.Knavesmire view

the original Homer wrote:
5 Labour Councillors have used their majority to force an unsound situation. What they have just voted in was never really a valid option. They are avoiding the real issue, which is to decide if they think the PCNs are legal or illegal. Once they make that decision, their course of action becomes clear.

If the Council believe the PCNs are illegal, then they should refund everyone automatically. Saying &quot;there is no dispute until a refund is applied for" is rubbish, the PCNs should be automatically in dispute by reason of being illegal.

If the Council still believe the PCNs are legal, then they should go through the proper legal process and only refund if they lose. Personally, I think they would eventually lose, but at least we'd know where we stood.

What they have actually done is said we think the PCNs are legal, but we will refund anyone who asks. I don't personally agree with their thinking, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and look at it from that point of view.

If the PCNs are legal, what mandate do the Council have for making goodwill payments using a huge chunk of lawfully obtained public money?

Effectively, the vote Labour have just forced through is "Although we think we have no need or obligation to spend this money, and we will get nothing in return, we want to spend it anyway"

Good comments. £11300 spent on legal fees and they chose NOT to contest the adjudicator's findings. The truth will eventually come to light.
In the meantime Coppergate CCTv cameras are OFF; and the council's appeal is taking ages to be determined. Personally, the council were worse rergarding Coppergate than the Bridge; and their 20 mph implementation in many thoroughfares was also poor.

[quote][p][bold]the original Homer[/bold] wrote:
5 Labour Councillors have used their majority to force an unsound situation. What they have just voted in was never really a valid option. They are avoiding the real issue, which is to decide if they think the PCNs are legal or illegal. Once they make that decision, their course of action becomes clear.
If the Council believe the PCNs are illegal, then they should refund everyone automatically. Saying "there is no dispute until a refund is applied for" is rubbish, the PCNs should be automatically in dispute by reason of being illegal.
If the Council still believe the PCNs are legal, then they should go through the proper legal process and only refund if they lose. Personally, I think they would eventually lose, but at least we'd know where we stood.
What they have actually done is said we think the PCNs are legal, but we will refund anyone who asks. I don't personally agree with their thinking, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and look at it from that point of view.
If the PCNs are legal, what mandate do the Council have for making goodwill payments using a huge chunk of lawfully obtained public money?
Effectively, the vote Labour have just forced through is "Although we think we have no need or obligation to spend this money, and we will get nothing in return, we want to spend it anyway"[/p][/quote]Good comments. £11300 spent on legal fees and they chose NOT to contest the adjudicator's findings. The truth will eventually come to light.
In the meantime Coppergate CCTv cameras are OFF; and the council's appeal is taking ages to be determined. Personally, the council were worse rergarding Coppergate than the Bridge; and their 20 mph implementation in many thoroughfares was also poor.Cheeky face

m dee wrote:
In my eyes the Councillors listed along with Merrett and the leaders of the Council are all part of a scheme that obtained and is holding onto money gained by Illegal means and should be Investigated for fraud.
It is clear by their actions they have intentions to refund as little as possible as the refund policy they have put forward is only likely to be viewed by local people leaving the majority of visitors fined Illegally unaware they are entitled to a refund,

The accounts of the council can be challenged by local people; and this has been done elsewhere in the country where a scheme like this was awfully administered.

Will the auditors question the "ring fenced" money? I hope so.

[quote][p][bold]m dee[/bold] wrote:
In my eyes the Councillors listed along with Merrett and the leaders of the Council are all part of a scheme that obtained and is holding onto money gained by Illegal means and should be Investigated for fraud.
It is clear by their actions they have intentions to refund as little as possible as the refund policy they have put forward is only likely to be viewed by local people leaving the majority of visitors fined Illegally unaware they are entitled to a refund,[/p][/quote]The accounts of the council can be challenged by local people; and this has been done elsewhere in the country where a scheme like this was awfully administered.
Will the auditors question the "ring fenced" money? I hope so.Cheeky face

bolero wrote:
No comment from the Pedaller. Must be too busy altering the scores. Trying to put us off his trail by adjusting upwards for a change.

Did anybody hear Alexander on Radio York - they have done no wrong re Lendal Bridge - they did not act illegally, they blame the opposition for slowing the payment process out people could have had their money earlier, but he could not answer how much it would have cost to directly refund the fines as opposed to how much it will cost to implement the system voted for last night! Unbelievable! Surely that information should have been available at the meeting last night as part of the decision making process.

Quite right. Let's not forget the council took £50k from the national Bus Improvement fund! Can they get their money back/

[quote][p][bold]Dr Brian[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]bolero[/bold] wrote:
No comment from the Pedaller. Must be too busy altering the scores. Trying to put us off his trail by adjusting upwards for a change.[/p][/quote]Did anybody hear Alexander on Radio York - they have done no wrong re Lendal Bridge - they did not act illegally, they blame the opposition for slowing the payment process out people could have had their money earlier, but he could not answer how much it would have cost to directly refund the fines as opposed to how much it will cost to implement the system voted for last night! Unbelievable! Surely that information should have been available at the meeting last night as part of the decision making process.[/p][/quote]Quite right. Let's not forget the council took £50k from the national Bus Improvement fund! Can they get their money back/Cheeky face

perplexed wrote:
The fines should be reimbursed automatically. However as we have seen recently with CPP and PPI claims the burden always falls on on the victim to come forward rather than those responsible for the mess in the first place!

I got a PPI refund. But I never had one!

Money sent to charity.

[quote][p][bold]perplexed[/bold] wrote:
The fines should be reimbursed automatically. However as we have seen recently with CPP and PPI claims the burden always falls on on the victim to come forward rather than those responsible for the mess in the first place![/p][/quote]I got a PPI refund. But I never had one!
Money sent to charity.Cheeky face

Labour leader of the City of York Council James Alexander claimed the council had acted correctly over the refunds and blamed opposition parties for delaying repayments.

&quot;We want to be able to pay back those fines and people can contact us," he said.

"We would have started that four weeks ago if it was left to us but the opposition decided to drag that out even further."

The council said it was still working out the process of how people can claim back their penalties".

So you'd have started paying the fines weeks ago, but you don't know the process yet? Right ok.

The refund criteria will be arranged by the council. That is no comforting at all!"

5% is the likely take up on refunds unless the media gets the situation highlighted/distribu
ted to them. Could the Press or one of the motoring lobby groups do it; but really it is the council who got it wrong from mid July 2013 when I told them they were soon to be walking on thin ice?

Mid Jan 2014 was the time the signs met the mandatory requirements of the Traffic regs 2002 and the traffic signs manual.

My questions to council started 12 months ago; and even now, I have had no meaningful replies!

[quote][p][bold]Knavesmire view[/bold] wrote:
Quote from the BBC article:
Labour leader of the City of York Council James Alexander claimed the council had acted correctly over the refunds and blamed opposition parties for delaying repayments.
"We want to be able to pay back those fines and people can contact us," he said.
"We would have started that four weeks ago if it was left to us but the opposition decided to drag that out even further."
The council said it was still working out the process of how people can claim back their penalties".
So you'd have started paying the fines weeks ago, but you don't know the process yet? Right ok.[/p][/quote]The refund criteria will be arranged by the council. That is no comforting at all!"
5% is the likely take up on refunds unless the media gets the situation highlighted/distribu
ted to them. Could the Press or one of the motoring lobby groups do it; but really it is the council who got it wrong from mid July 2013 when I told them they were soon to be walking on thin ice?
Mid Jan 2014 was the time the signs met the mandatory requirements of the Traffic regs 2002 and the traffic signs manual.
My questions to council started 12 months ago; and even now, I have had no meaningful replies!Cheeky face

strangebuttrue? wrote:
Well what did anyone expect. After all if they just repaid all the fines it would be like admitting they were illegal. Now who was it who said they would resign if the fines were illegal? Oh yes the perpetrator of this shambles Mr Merrett.

What we need to know now is how much is going to be spent administering this in order to make sure Mr Merrett does not have to stick to his word.

Cllr D Merrett only volunteered to resign if he was found wrong in a review that was never even made contrary to the public claims to the media.

There is a word for people who are untruthful in this manner.

What do they call it? Doing a Merrett?

[quote][p][bold]KevinWard59[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]strangebuttrue?[/bold] wrote:
Well what did anyone expect. After all if they just repaid all the fines it would be like admitting they were illegal. Now who was it who said they would resign if the fines were illegal? Oh yes the perpetrator of this shambles Mr Merrett.
What we need to know now is how much is going to be spent administering this in order to make sure Mr Merrett does not have to stick to his word.[/p][/quote]Cllr D Merrett only volunteered to resign if he was found wrong in a review that was never even made contrary to the public claims to the media.
There is a word for people who are untruthful in this manner.[/p][/quote]What do they call it? Doing a Merrett?strangebuttrue?

yorkshirebitter wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.

Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.

[quote][p][bold]yorkshirebitter[/bold] wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.[/p][/quote]Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.pedalling paul

yorkshirebitter wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.

Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.

Oh be quiet, we don't care. We just want to see people making decisions being accountable and admitting their mistakes

[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirebitter[/bold] wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.[/p][/quote]Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.[/p][/quote]Oh be quiet, we don't care. We just want to see people making decisions being accountable and admitting their mistakesSilver

yorkshirebitter wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.

Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.

This is about paying money back to those who were fined illegally, so stick to the issue, stop trying to high jack it with your pathetic usual anti car rhetoric Mr Hepworth

[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirebitter[/bold] wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.[/p][/quote]Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.[/p][/quote]This is about paying money back to those who were fined illegally, so stick to the issue, stop trying to high jack it with your pathetic usual anti car rhetoric Mr Hepworthnotpedallingpaul

yorkshirebitter wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.

Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.

My god Paul you were late on the band wagon today!!!! I doubt very much it was your finally listening to everyone else and ACTUALLY SHUTTING UP about your usual same old same old story line. This is about paying back fines that were unjustified. So I re-iterate SHUT UP you record is worn out.

[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirebitter[/bold] wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.[/p][/quote]Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.[/p][/quote]My god Paul you were late on the band wagon today!!!! I doubt very much it was your finally listening to everyone else and ACTUALLY SHUTTING UP about your usual same old same old story line. This is about paying back fines that were unjustified. So I re-iterate SHUT UP you record is worn out.GMuser

yorkshirebitter wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.

Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.

This is about paying money back to those who were fined illegally, so stick to the issue, stop trying to high jack it with your pathetic usual anti car rhetoric Mr Hepworth

Agreed! Same old comments as per! "Car users paradise" blah blah "gridlock" blah blah doom and gloom! Nobody has mentioned either of those things! People are commenting on the fact that the council has fined people illegally and that they should promptly refund all without question but as they still seem to think they are right they intend to waste more taxpayers money on legal and administration fees! P.s York will never be a cyclists paradise either so you can forget that one as well! Perhaps if some of your fellow cyclists adhered to the Highway Code while cycling then perhaps cars and bikes could co-exist in the same road space a little easier

[quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]pedalling paul [/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]yorkshirebitter[/bold] wrote:
What a total shambles...£60 they owe me. This is beyond a joke, roll on next year when we can boot them out.[/p][/quote]Doesn't matter who you elect next year...a car owner's paradise will never be deliverable. Time to bite the transport bullet now rather than wait for creeping gridlock to force consensus. And we are not alone..other World cities have tried and failed to live with mass private car use. Road space must be prioritised for those who genuinely have no alternative.[/p][/quote]This is about paying money back to those who were fined illegally, so stick to the issue, stop trying to high jack it with your pathetic usual anti car rhetoric Mr Hepworth[/p][/quote]Agreed! Same old comments as per! "Car users paradise" blah blah "gridlock" blah blah doom and gloom! Nobody has mentioned either of those things! People are commenting on the fact that the council has fined people illegally and that they should promptly refund all without question but as they still seem to think they are right they intend to waste more taxpayers money on legal and administration fees! P.s York will never be a cyclists paradise either so you can forget that one as well! Perhaps if some of your fellow cyclists adhered to the Highway Code while cycling then perhaps cars and bikes could co-exist in the same road space a little easierWolfofwhipmawhopmagate

It is our (the York ratepayers) money they wasted on this, and other stupid schemes. We have already paid once.

If we automatically refund, we have to give away a fortune of our money. If we refund claimants only, we give away maybe 30% of that fortune. I know which I prefer to do. What do you think a major corporation, company, or bank would do? Did the banks automatically refund all of those PPI payments?

Let us see what happens come election time. But please remember, a local election is not a general election, vote for somebody with common sense.

Some facts.
Many of you voted for these clowns, or they would not be there.
It is our (the York ratepayers) money they wasted on this, and other stupid schemes. We have already paid once.
If we automatically refund, we have to give away a fortune of our money. If we refund claimants only, we give away maybe 30% of that fortune. I know which I prefer to do. What do you think a major corporation, company, or bank would do? Did the banks automatically refund all of those PPI payments?
Let us see what happens come election time. But please remember, a local election is not a general election, vote for somebody with common sense.Jonlogical

Presumably, when you say "we have to give away a fortune of our money", you're working on the principle that possession is nine points of the law. I would say that if the fines were collected illegally the money is not ours, it belongs to the victims. And considering that the banks are run on disgustingly unethical principles it sits uneasily with me that this council should feel it acceptable to adopt their shady practices.

Presumably, when you say "we have to give away a fortune of our money", you're working on the principle that possession is nine points of the law. I would say that if the fines were collected illegally the money is not ours, it belongs to the victims. And considering that the banks are run on disgustingly unethical principles it sits uneasily with me that this council should feel it acceptable to adopt their shady practices.mel_drew

Jonlogical wrote:
Some facts. Many of you voted for these clowns, or they would not be there. It is our (the York ratepayers) money they wasted on this, and other stupid schemes. We have already paid once. If we automatically refund, we have to give away a fortune of our money. If we refund claimants only, we give away maybe 30% of that fortune. I know which I prefer to do. What do you think a major corporation, company, or bank would do? Did the banks automatically refund all of those PPI payments? Let us see what happens come election time. But please remember, a local election is not a general election, vote for somebody with common sense.

So that means voting for any party other than labour then!!!, for they do not have any common sense, nor do they have any kind of business acumen.
What has major corporations, companies and banks have to do with this issue, just because they don't automatically pay back monies they are not entitled to hold, doesn't mean this council has to follow suit.
You appear to have no scruples just like this council, I along with others will suffer, but I do know what is morally right.
Because the way the monies were taken has been judged illegall, it is only right that it should be returned, and those that were fined should not have to go 'cap in hand' to the CoYC to have it refunded.

[quote][p][bold]Jonlogical[/bold] wrote:
Some facts. Many of you voted for these clowns, or they would not be there. It is our (the York ratepayers) money they wasted on this, and other stupid schemes. We have already paid once. If we automatically refund, we have to give away a fortune of our money. If we refund claimants only, we give away maybe 30% of that fortune. I know which I prefer to do. What do you think a major corporation, company, or bank would do? Did the banks automatically refund all of those PPI payments? Let us see what happens come election time. But please remember, a local election is not a general election, vote for somebody with common sense.[/p][/quote]So that means voting for any party other than labour then!!!, for they do not have any common sense, nor do they have any kind of business acumen.
What has major corporations, companies and banks have to do with this issue, just because they don't automatically pay back monies they are not entitled to hold, doesn't mean this council has to follow suit.
You appear to have no scruples just like this council, I along with others will suffer, but I do know what is morally right.
Because the way the monies were taken has been judged illegall, it is only right that it should be returned, and those that were fined should not have to go 'cap in hand' to the CoYC to have it refunded.notpedallingpaul

mel_drew wrote:
Presumably, when you say &quot;we have to give away a fortune of our money", you're working on the principle that possession is nine points of the law. I would say that if the fines were collected illegally the money is not ours, it belongs to the victims. And considering that the banks are run on disgustingly unethical principles it sits uneasily with me that this council should feel it acceptable to adopt their shady practices.

The accounts of the council can be scrutinized by local taxpayers as well as the audit commission people. This fiasco has no forseeable end.

York's offer was similar to one in the S west. Only 2% applied initially!
How can the balance of money be retained is this issue!

Is it fraud?

[quote][p][bold]mel_drew[/bold] wrote:
Presumably, when you say "we have to give away a fortune of our money", you're working on the principle that possession is nine points of the law. I would say that if the fines were collected illegally the money is not ours, it belongs to the victims. And considering that the banks are run on disgustingly unethical principles it sits uneasily with me that this council should feel it acceptable to adopt their shady practices.[/p][/quote]The accounts of the council can be scrutinized by local taxpayers as well as the audit commission people. This fiasco has no forseeable end.
York's offer was similar to one in the S west. Only 2% applied initially!
How can the balance of money be retained is this issue!
Is it fraud?Cheeky face

Jonlogical wrote:
Some facts. Many of you voted for these clowns, or they would not be there. It is our (the York ratepayers) money they wasted on this, and other stupid schemes. We have already paid once. If we automatically refund, we have to give away a fortune of our money. If we refund claimants only, we give away maybe 30% of that fortune. I know which I prefer to do. What do you think a major corporation, company, or bank would do? Did the banks automatically refund all of those PPI payments? Let us see what happens come election time. But please remember, a local election is not a general election, vote for somebody with common sense.

So that means voting for any party other than labour then!!!, for they do not have any common sense, nor do they have any kind of business acumen.
What has major corporations, companies and banks have to do with this issue, just because they don't automatically pay back monies they are not entitled to hold, doesn't mean this council has to follow suit.
You appear to have no scruples just like this council, I along with others will suffer, but I do know what is morally right.
Because the way the monies were taken has been judged illegall, it is only right that it should be returned, and those that were fined should not have to go 'cap in hand' to the CoYC to have it refunded.

Good response. Has the council decided to apologise to the government funding team who gave them £50k for this bus scheme. If they said it was a prohibited motor vehicle scheme, which they should have said, they may well have not got that funding.

More importantly apologies are in order; but where and when we will get these?

[quote][p][bold]notpedallingpaul[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Jonlogical[/bold] wrote:
Some facts. Many of you voted for these clowns, or they would not be there. It is our (the York ratepayers) money they wasted on this, and other stupid schemes. We have already paid once. If we automatically refund, we have to give away a fortune of our money. If we refund claimants only, we give away maybe 30% of that fortune. I know which I prefer to do. What do you think a major corporation, company, or bank would do? Did the banks automatically refund all of those PPI payments? Let us see what happens come election time. But please remember, a local election is not a general election, vote for somebody with common sense.[/p][/quote]So that means voting for any party other than labour then!!!, for they do not have any common sense, nor do they have any kind of business acumen.
What has major corporations, companies and banks have to do with this issue, just because they don't automatically pay back monies they are not entitled to hold, doesn't mean this council has to follow suit.
You appear to have no scruples just like this council, I along with others will suffer, but I do know what is morally right.
Because the way the monies were taken has been judged illegall, it is only right that it should be returned, and those that were fined should not have to go 'cap in hand' to the CoYC to have it refunded.[/p][/quote]Good response. Has the council decided to apologise to the government funding team who gave them £50k for this bus scheme. If they said it was a prohibited motor vehicle scheme, which they should have said, they may well have not got that funding.
More importantly apologies are in order; but where and when we will get these?Cheeky face

How can those 5 spineless labour councillor sever look in a mirror again or look there wives, partners and children in the eyes. I am ashamed for you. Bowing down to the mighty Alexander you must be so proud of yourselves. I have informed the regional Labour Party of the damage these people are doing to the party in this city and I hope to god not one of these people are re elected next year or democracy and out world has ceased to exist. Please Putin come and save us.

How can those 5 spineless labour councillor sever look in a mirror again or look there wives, partners and children in the eyes. I am ashamed for you. Bowing down to the mighty Alexander you must be so proud of yourselves. I have informed the regional Labour Party of the damage these people are doing to the party in this city and I hope to god not one of these people are re elected next year or democracy and out world has ceased to exist. Please Putin come and save us.Martin true Viking

I have to say, I would be inclined to be claiming my fines back along with interest based on lost interest from my back account and also with reasonable compensation for stress and time wasted in seeking my money back.

Interesting contrast with Sheffield Council who are simply refunding drivers who were incorrectly fined.
http://www.thestar.c
o.uk/news/trapped-dr
ivers-57-000-payback
-1-6819402
Looks like things are more sensible in South Yorkshire.
I have to say, I would be inclined to be claiming my fines back along with interest based on lost interest from my back account and also with reasonable compensation for stress and time wasted in seeking my money back.Tox1415