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Our aim is to create "holy shit" moments for investors and traders alike. This is why our thought-provoking videos have been described as "TED Talks for Finance". Watch, learn and profit from the insights of the world's best investors

Mark Cuban in Conversation with Kyle Bass – The Maverick Investor

Featuring Mark Cuban, Kyle Bass

Entrepreneur, Investor, Maverick. Mark Cuban arrives on Real Vision, in an incredible conversation with the equally legendary Kyle Bass, who finds out what makes the man from Shark Tank tick and his approach to investing, alongside some sharp insights on the future of AI, robotics and ICOs. Filmed on October 18, 2017, in Dallas.

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Sv

Sid v.

9 11 2018 19:01

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wow

TP

Timothy P.

7 11 2018 23:14

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00

I realize this was published a while ago, but one major risk for all ICO's built on Ethereum is ETH itself.
Being dependent on that ecosystem means that if their purported scaling solutions don't work, then your token won't either. As we've seen recently, Vitalik Buterin has chosen to "step back" from the project. This coincides interestingly enough with the other decision by core ETH developers to postpone their scaling implementation. Kicking the can makes me suspicious, because it emulates the behavior found in centralized organizations like government and central banking. My personal theory is they don't have a scaling solution, and they know it, so they're delaying while the creator tries to distance himself from the project -- knowing full well that failure would bring massive consequences for him personally.

This was the first video by Real Vision that I found to be a waste of time. Very shallow conversation. Mark Cuban's comments about the market are very basic and way below the level that I learned to expect here at RV.

DC

Daniel C.

5 1 2018 01:17

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Loved this!

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Doug M.

4 1 2018 05:18

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Great to hear two smart guys hashing it out. Excellent.

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Tom L.

28 12 2017 14:47

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I've read this transcript four times now. What an incredible conversation.

DK

Dylan K.

13 12 2017 17:49

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01

If anyone is curious on pharmaceutical related blockchain technology, there is a current ICO happening called BlockRx. I'm a practicing pharmacist in the state of Ohio and I believe it addresses some key issues in the pharmaceutical industry today.

CJ

Clint J.

29 11 2017 06:30

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20

Just finished watching this video after several weeks away from Real Vision. I found this content fascinating and one of the best interviews of this year. Great examples of someone dynamically connecting strategic components of their world view across multiple industries, assets, and social/political constructs.

Thanks for putting this together. Kyle Bass is a true joy to observe as an interviewer as well. Many thanks!

JC

Jorge C.

28 11 2017 09:57

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20

The only real inequality that matters in the long run is knowledge.

JM

James M.

21 11 2017 15:33

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21

He got the total number of possible bitcoins wrong (said 21.9m its 21m) which is pretty damn basic and said its a collectable but yet invests in it and doesn't collect it. Lost credibility on the crypto front pretty quickly for me. Did enjoy the AI section though.

tc

tim c.

16 11 2017 15:18

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10

thank god for that generational wealth chapter! lol gtfo

DF

Dominic F.

15 11 2017 21:48

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01

I found Marks juxtaposition between the US entrepreneurial spirit and State involvement really interesting. On one hand he talks about AI and business opportunities while at the same time discussing job losses as the state deals with unemployment and social issues and considering replacing Health Insurance Companies with State Run 'Self-Insure' system of health care while. Just what is the role of government going forward and is government capable of balancing the two?

EH

Edwin H.

15 11 2017 19:51

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80

Not a big fan of Mark Cuban, but I have to say it was nice to see the "Real Mark". Maybe it is just me but other interviews with Mark he always trying to prove he is the smartest man in the room, however with Kyle doing the interview that guard is down. In result, we got an insightful interview about A.I.

This is why I really enjoy Real Vision. Less peacocking and more knowledge sharing.

AV

Alvern V.

12 11 2017 19:36

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30

I thought the interview was great. Good insight on a variety of topics. I do find it a bit scary that one of Mark's solutions is another TVA or a "Modern New Deal". Since when is it best to involve the government in the means of production?

KS

Kim S.

11 11 2017 16:27

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42

Good conversation and questions though I find Mark Cuban a shallow thinker compared to most RV guests. He's also disturbingly disconnected if he thinks most Americans have someone pick up their car to get the oil changed.

One obvious oversight in the frequent conversation about AI taking jobs: the supposed company owners need customers: IOW, the market won't allow a few robot-producing companies to be wealthy while everyone else starves. If we keep the government out of this equation, the technology and income WILL distribute itself throughout society to a reasonable extent.

Wealth inequality increase is NOT due to technology.

AK

Anthony K.

10 11 2017 17:54

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Once they got away from the Central Banker discussion, the rest was pretty good

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Sam S.

9 11 2017 14:18

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20

I was taken back by Mark's generous views in simplifying the macro understanding of these subject matters. Bitcoin a collectible, Medical Self-Insurance, Ai and so forth. This really helps with making investment decisions. He answers "what's really going on" in a personable way with a clean conversation. Thanks Gentlemen!

MH

Michael H.

9 11 2017 12:59

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10

I would love to see follow up on how Robotics and AI is/will change the face of medicine and diagnostics. Maybe find 3 top people working on this. Could save the system billions.

JB

Jack B.

9 11 2017 08:02

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John S.

8 11 2017 22:45

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00

Great to see Kyle and Mark talk about crypto.

SB

Stewart B.

8 11 2017 22:11

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50

Great interview. I really enjoyed Kyle Bass's interviewing style, not to mention his choice of footwear and beverage.

1) The lack or growth in real wages has been a product of firstly money printing and secondly regulation disincentivising becoming and employer. These days it's much easier to take a cushy government or bank job (and get paid well with a good pension), than to risk your own money and face the regulatory challenge (esp employment law) of becoming an employer.

2) The argument that techonology (in this case AI/Machine Learning) will lead to significant unemployment could have been also been made about electricity, rail, desktop publishing, telephony or the internet. When I look around at the things I want, I see a huge shortage of human labour. I want someone to pick up the phone when I call a company, I want someone to clean my apartment, I want someone to mix my cocktail in a bar, I want someone to be look after my parents as they age etc. Personally, I have a lot of experience with AI/Machine Learning and can see that it will enrich our life, but will not create mass unemployment. The luddite argument re-surfaces very decade or two. It never correctly describes future employment trends.

JM

John M.

8 11 2017 21:27

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20

I would like to see Kyle interview RV commenter Kathleen O (see below), but only if she's still hammered and speaking in ALL CAPS.

JO

Joseph O.

8 11 2017 19:13

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30

I heard inconsistencies in Mark's mind; strong preferences for both
(1) centralized and (2) decentralized systems but with an implied foundation of (3) utilitarianism.

3) Or, as he repeats a few times, is everything simply "regarded in context"? Strong implication of a fundamental utilitarian. But if so, wouldn't a study of history (shoutout to Nassim Taleb here...) caution against centralized optimization?

Smart guy but has been a family man with the luxury of being wrong with a big backstop for some time now... I hear inconsistency/bias in his positions here.

JM

Justin M.

8 11 2017 18:59

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00

Amazing interview. One of may favorites of all time. Thanks Mark and Kyle.

ES

Edward S.

8 11 2017 17:48

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10

The hype rhetoric Cuban spits about AI is funny. The name, Artificial Intelligence, is apt. Other than that, pretty good interview. Cuban was a notch less smug than usual.

PV

Prakash V.

8 11 2017 09:15

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Another masterpiece from the crew at RealVision. Extremely bright and switched-on individuals in discussion about various topics. Well worth the subscription.

MB

Mike B.

8 11 2017 03:17

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00

Anyone know what robotics startup Mark invested in in Kansas City?

AF

Alex F.

8 11 2017 02:14

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10

Great piece. Cuban and other billionaires have created their wealth in the Global economy. The Global economy relies on several critical factors, one being consumerism. Every job that AI displaces, every worker that becomes a "ward of the state" is one less consumer. AI will kill the consumer. Projected at an accelerated rate, there will be no need for Amazon, no need for Netflix, no need for Facebook advertising, no need for google searches, no need for more properties, no need for homebuilders, no need for retailers, no need for travel, no need for Tesla, no need for oil, no need for healthcare, no need for banks, no need for insurance etc etc etc... eventually there will be nothing for the robots to do and so no need for AI - it's the end game..

AA

Aaron A.

7 11 2017 23:16

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01

Outstanding interview. So many topics to think through. Thank you RV, Kyle Bass, and Mark Cuban!

SL

Seth L.

7 11 2017 22:53

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32

Why is every discussion on AI dystopian? Throughout human history innovation has massively disrupted existing institutions, yet people have always found ways to work for a living. Mechanized farm equipment displaced the farmers and what happened? New industries were birthed, now able to utilize the existing labor force. Automation replaced manufacturing jobs, and yet people found other, (newly created) service industry jobs. What about all those telecommunication employees (switch board operators, cable layers, etc) which the internet displaced. The same will go for AI. The robots will need programmers and technicians. Perhaps we have more artists and entertainers as AI will give people more leisure time and wealth (due to good deflation; btw this has already happened thanks to Netflix, Amazon et al). There is no limit to human innovation. We're not going to sit around and devolve into apocalyptic zombies because jobs have changed. We will adapt given the chance.

PJ

Paul J.

7 11 2017 16:19

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20

Wow—Cuban is sharp. Even got Bass to say ‘I don’t know’ with a couple simple questions. Great thinker.

JV

Jens V.

7 11 2017 13:30

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00

Brilliant. very interesting. Thanks!

MZ

M Z.

7 11 2017 02:52

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10

Wow! Only on RVTV!

JH

Jesse H.

7 11 2017 01:57

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41

Fascinating interview. Thanks, RV. I can see why Mark Cuban has been so successful -- he is incredibly enterprising, sharp and able to connect dots across various issues simultaneously.

CT

Christopher T.

7 11 2017 01:35

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love the change up in guests.

WA

WAYNE A.

6 11 2017 21:22

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29

You have ruined the RealVision by talk with Mark Cuban.

CL

Charles L.

6 11 2017 20:13

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30

my 2 cts: this is the kind of input I paid for joining RVTV. I don't mind if it comes out once a week, not daily. One such conversation a week is plenty for me to digest. Having (even indirect) access like this to people like Mark is worth RVTV's fee anytime.

Now, where is all the money the centrals banks printed? Whose bank accounts have swelled??

MB

Matthias B.

6 11 2017 20:11

Hotly Debated

50

I do not know Mark or his track record enough but for a long time had his statement on a print out hanging on my office door which alluded to the fool at the poker table being yourself when you lose the stake. I found the conversation fascinating and valuable as I agree with Mark that robots and AI will surely affect our lives and the ones of my kids, and it scares me to be honest, probably because I am totally untalented in IT aspects. If Mark was right though on deflationary tendencies as a consequence, would that imply infinite QE or similar monetary policies as central banks will fail to see any other remedy than inflating asset prices at ever growing debt levels? If so, then a potential debt jubilee appears inevitable? I for myself would look extremely forward to RV offering more discussions and insights on potential consequences and how it works, on i) debt jubilee (cont. the discussion which was started with A. Turner a while ago and picked up with B Fleckenstein) ii) AI, robots, digitalisation etc. Thanks a lot. PS: the latest interviews with B Fleckenstein, Mark Cuban or Jesse Felder are a vast content improvement as of late. Back to the origins, well done!

TS

Tyler S.

6 11 2017 15:39

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00

I want to hang out with you guys, whats the income requirements to be part of the club :o)

TJ

Terry J.

5 11 2017 14:58

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20

Fascinating discussion. I am always keen to hear Kyle's latest thoughts, but knew nothing of Mark. Having googled his biograpy as a successful entrepreneur, I welcome hearing his views on the variety of subjects discussed. Like several others whom have commented, I think Mark's assessment of bitcoin and digital assets is wrong, but that's what makes a market. I love the breadth and variety of subjects, and the range of successful investors' views shown on RVTV.

KB

Kenneth B.

5 11 2017 14:41

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40

It's really not rocket science to buy Bitcoin on Coinbase and transfer it to your Trezor. Really.

KT

K T.

5 11 2017 06:15

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101

Didn't realise Bitcoin was around 10 years ago when Mark bought his "first coin".The Swedish ETN he is referring to I guess is Coinxbt, it definitely trades at a premium (think 2.5% management fee,ie. money for nothing.) Always respect people who have gone big in life but Mark strikes me as a one hit wonder, right place right time right idea. Gonna take all he said with a major pinch of salt. His plug right at the beginning for Shark Tank was so transparent, he is in the business of selling himself as a brand and why not make hay while the sun shines.

SD

S D.

5 11 2017 05:09

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31

Policy failures on even basic things like health care and tax reform give zero confidence that AI will even be discussed sensibly in the West. Instead certain socio-political agendas are coming to the fore, no doubt encouraged by the robots' success in killing off price discovery. We live in a false world that's going to become increasingly destructive to the ordinary person, thanks to a governing class that's gone AWOL and a fourth estate that has been eliminated - again, by robots. Cuban is interesting because he inadvertently exposed the strong interest in certain quarters in this new false dawn. AI's most important possibilities are socio-political, rather than economic, and there is no longer any reliable forum to investigate them or enforce controls.

MS

Matt S.

5 11 2017 04:06

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40

Maybe a non-discussed scenario of the dislocation caused by AI will be, an outright rejection of the "future-world" by people. A return to old ways, where instead of taking a hand-out "make-good job" from some supposed authority, people will retrain in basic, original skills.

For example, tool making, clothes making, bread baking, animal rearing, furniture making. They will then trade these hand-made goods amongst each other and reject the factory made, AI made products. Perhaps they will trade in cryptocurrencies or precious metals.

That way, they will all have a purpose in life, all have a craft to master and be proud of, all have income. Have smaller communities again (the antithesis of a one-world-system) essentially, a return to a traditional way of life, traditional values and an utter rejection of this AI "utopia".

SG

Sebastian G.

5 11 2017 01:01

Hotly Debated

121

Seemed like Kyle wanted to be interviewed instead of interviewing. Not to the point of argumentative, but definitely needed to voice his opinion almost more than he asked for Mark's. Maybe smug is the right word. I want to listen to the advice of who has the most money in their bank account.

rr

rlw r.

4 11 2017 23:58

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40

RVTV good stuff. Yep, more technology segment(s) please in addition to your existing stable of topics, macro, gold .. et al.
The 1 hour slots remain an awesome value add for personalities we may only see &/or observe in fast clips elsewhere.
A whole different persona is available to viewers with the longer form, hoping Cuban is featured again.
Thanks Kyle you are a super knowledgeable interviewer.

KS

Kathleen S.

4 11 2017 23:47

Hotly Debated

824

If u want to understand what bitcoin is, please do not listen to Mark Cuban explanation - he shows his complete ignorance -bitcoin is not a collectable (it is a store of value outside our fake fiat banking system) and I can see through his bull of pretending to like it, but at the same time bashing it -- The power elite are terrified of bitcoin and that is exactly why you should hold it -- Cuban is a CHARLATAN, want to learn about bitcoin then you need to listen to Andreas Antonopoulus. Raoul please bring on people who know what they are talking about -- I am finding harder and harder to subscribe to your channel and I have been with you from the beginning. NO MORE DEE SMITH ( council of foreign relations crap) or clowns like Mark Cuban.

TR

Thomas R.

4 11 2017 23:21

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10

In the event Mark reads these comments - want to say how much I appreciate his work on Shark Tank and especially those shows where he really provides insight to the entrepreneur. The interview added perspective and depth to my own inquiry into how the world, especially the investing world, will dramatically shift over the next 35 years as opposed to the last 35 years. Our starting point today is so dramatically different than it was in 1982.

AB

Aaron B.

4 11 2017 20:19

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419

I really hope Mark runs for President. It's going to be vital to have someone like Mark to help us navigate the future.

Regardless if Mark runs, lets pray we don't get another clown like we have now.

SS

Steve S.

4 11 2017 20:17

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00

Brilliant

BL

Brian L.

4 11 2017 18:35

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181

Honestly I was disappointed in Mark. AI will be a disaster for mankind and I sensed that Kyle was picking up on that. Going all in on AI means destroying jobs. The idea that people will be okay with "make work" like TVA, Tennessee Valley authority or "basic income" models is a horrible idea. Human beings need to work, find self-worth and dignity. If AI makes people superfluous...there will be civil unrest. There is already unrest due to the lack of entry level jobs. We cant just "transfer-payment" our way out of the problem.

DS

David S.

4 11 2017 16:53

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00

When government work programs were initiated during the great depression most workers were just happy to have a job and a paycheck. Now the intelligent thing to do is to game the system through not working, workers' compensation, TDI, etc. Maybe this is the reason that some countries are looking into minimum income programs for all their citizens instead of work programs. This also begs the question of how will a country collect enough in taxes to support all the non-working citizens. I want to be hopeful, but many opportunities to degenerate into dystopias exists. DLS

BK

Brian K.

4 11 2017 15:07

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100

I wish Kyle would of finished his point regarding asset/price inflation. Kyle said "so innovational that we've had good deflation. But I think now, when you look at the price of just about anything in life, it's going up. My view.." Then Mark began to talk about AI creating delfation.

AL

Andrew L.

4 11 2017 12:58

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160

I have 20 years experience as a software developer and work in the business analytics space. The hype around AI is to some degree warranted and there is a general sense of a coming AI revolution with self-driving cars, robotic farming, 3d printing, etc.

The first point to be made is that may or may not happen. There are still significant technical hurdles to overcome. The state of the art deep neural network techniques are really modifications of a recipe that dates back to the 50s at least. Completely new and different approaches are still needed to deal with the many shortcomings of existing AI.

Second if we overcome these problems in the near future we will face significant displacements in society and it is not a given (as much as we give it lip service) that new jobs will be created to fill the void.

What is currently filling the void is a natural profusion of inefficient systems in other places of the economy to make up for the displacements of automation. You squeeze the balloon in one place and other places expand. This inefficiency is called by those who study it cost-disease and they have no explanation for it. You find it in education and health-care, and government spending. It is a side of inflation that does not make it into the ism. I believe this is a complex systems dynamic that will be hard to escape, nor should we want to unless we can actually produce enough good jobs that are both efficient and beneficial to society.

CH

Colin H.

4 11 2017 11:26

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11

This was f***ing brilliant

SS

Steve S.

4 11 2017 09:34

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31

Loved it! Would be great if Kyle would do more interviews with Billionaires. Get him to go for Buffet!

PB

Pieter B.

4 11 2017 07:53

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00

Great great value!!! Thanks a lot!

JV

Jason V.

4 11 2017 07:33

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261

Fantastic interview. Kyle did a brilliant job. Having the likes of Kyle and Mike Green as interviewers has raised RVTV to the next level. The depth and breadth of thinking is first class.

BN

Brandon N.

4 11 2017 07:21

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30

Great interview. Appreciate Mark’s pragmatic and optimistic view of the future for some sectors. Kyle was great as always. Thank you gents.

DW

Doug W.

4 11 2017 04:28

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73

His description that bitcoin is nothing more than a collectable is simply silly. It makes me wonder how much he really understands it. I gathered from the interview he has done his homework on AI but I am not so sure on bitcoin.
His comment on how Visa currently dominates transactions vs bitcoin is true, but let's see where that dynamic is in 2-3 years.

RD

RP D.

4 11 2017 03:49

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21

More like a movie scene than a financial video. Great Job Kyle. Great Job RV. More like this!

MZ

Michael Z.

4 11 2017 02:37

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181

Cuban dabbles in learning how to code in python yet found it too difficult to purchase bitcoin?

Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

- Mugatu

CD

Chris D.

4 11 2017 01:35

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71

One of the best interviews I have seen in a while. Keep up the great work Real Vision!

PN

Paul N.

3 11 2017 23:17

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70

I'm surprised that Cuban thinks Bitcoin cant be a currency due to its current transaction limits, as if technologies dont rapidly evolve over time. Especially considering he's a VC and has seen the internet go from 3 day delays on sending email to everyone streaming video.

This interview further proves this stock market's degree of 'Complexity Theory' is akin to Schwarzenegger performance in 'The Running Man'.

Sure hope we get this right, and just what does getting it right mean?

Cuban to me seems aptly positioned to profit from an Orwellian future, an AI utopia, and likely both.

ii

ida i.

3 11 2017 19:56

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100

wonderful, but I wish we could see interviews like this with two experts with opposite views, like an interview with Mark Cuban and Jesse Felder for example

MO

Mike O.

3 11 2017 19:36

Hotly Debated

610

I was delightfully entertained by the wide ranging discussion and with Mark Cuban's astute comments and his insights. And so, I liked this one quite a bit and very much enjoy your interviews with thoughtful (and thought-provoking) guests overall. Thanks, RVTV ... keep them coming!

As a suggestion for a truly world-class thinker and innovator as a possible future guest, I would propose that Elon Musk might make for an excellent interview (if you could get him) ... if articles such as the following about him are any indication:

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/05/elon-musk-the-worlds-raddest-man.html

Tim Urban is a most interesting fellow himself (most amusing at the very least) and is the author of the "waitbutwhy" blog, which I also think is excellent.

Don't take my word, though ... I learned about him in the following "Invest Like the Best" podcast episode (which was also a hoot), which you might also enjoy -

Bull or Bear, today's "problem solvers" seem to think we can solve resource, societal and economic problems through changing the definition of money and technology. Will humanity ever adopt the spiritual (not religious) and emotional changes that will actually allow us to deliver more prosperity to more people?

MM

Michael M.

3 11 2017 18:54

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00

Great interview

CH

Calvin H.

3 11 2017 15:38

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10

In high school - What about Junior Achievement club!? I sold magnetic mirrors for high school lockers.

LK

Lyle K.

3 11 2017 15:32

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20

Thanks RV for getting this one out there!
This source of info is great for progress no need to keep the regular guy intellectually deprived.

KC

Klendathu C.

3 11 2017 14:52

Hotly Debated

284

Quick thoughts:

Overall, I enjoyed this interview. Thanks for bringing on a couple of industry big names.

I think Kyle's point that global cash balances are >4x as high as they have ever been should and could explain a lot of the inflation we have seen in asset prices lately. In terms of break outs, almost every equity market in every major country around the world is in some form of a break out.

In that vein, sovereign wealth funds have trillions of dollars and they don't want to invest in equities, and would rather own the hard assets that countries like China, India, Japan etc are looking to build. These combined factors should and likely will be incredibly bullish for commodity prices and potentially wage costs. Especially in the western world where the shortage of labor skilled in trades like construction is becoming more apparent by the day.

As for the discussion on Artificial Intelligence I found a bit short sighted, at least on Kyle's point. I do not see AI as a negative, even when you consider the fear of job losses. AI and Machine Learning are going to make people wildly more productive at the time the labor force is shrinking in the developed world. The cost of producing goods will fall. The cost of resource utilization will fall. New jobs and new fields of research that we never considered before will open up in this new world, just like we saw in the industrial revolution.

And contrary to everyone's belief that drug prices are going to rise ad infinitum I see the complete opposite. We will likely see peak health care costs in the next 3 years due to a number of factors. One, the government is finally going after these egregious price hikes by patent trolling big pharma. Two, biotech innovation is finally coming. It's 2017 and we are still treating horrific diseases like cancer and heart disease with chemotherapy and statins. Breakthrough drug developments (NOT gene therapy!) have not come through in over 40 years, but that is finally changing. In the next 5 years those breakthroughs will dramatically lower costs and improve patient outcomes. And finally, 3, cannabis will be legalized in this country within the next 3 years. Cannabis is a more effective drug that over 90% of pharmaceutical drugs out there on the market. The drug companies cannot patent it. And people who take cannabis are 50% less likely to take pharmaceuticals which means demand for these ineffective and overpriced drugs is going to plummet in the coming years.

It's not just biotech. It's not just AI and Machine learning. Technological deflation is in a slow but accelerative phase, just in time to combat the tidal surge of central bank money printing. I for one look forward to watching the titanic battle between these opposing forces.

-K

WB

Wes B.

3 11 2017 14:51

Hotly Debated

2725

I appreciated the new blood. I think Cuban is great and offers good perspective on tech. Personally I'm sick of the bears the RV marches out spouting the same over valuation/value investing mantra. I agree with all of them but I don't need any more add to confirmation bias. Cuban is probably the only guy on RV that says FANG is a buy (although when you DGAF its prob easier call to make). I'd like to see more of this and less Yusko, Fleckenstein, and the others who just say the same thing over and over.

JM

Jake M.

3 11 2017 14:41

Hotly Debated

101

Best quote of the video = "did you just say, tax robots"-Kyle Bass

V!

Volatimothy !.

3 11 2017 14:20

Hotly Debated

160

AI creeps me out more than Mark repeatedly looking into my living room in this video. Jobs teaching robots how to be humans? What happens when that is no longer productive? What comes after AI? I know it's coming but I thinks it's something that we really don't understand the true consequences of.