Ok first of all you are generalizing an entire cultural group by saying "All mulim people have been called upon by various lears to kill Americans...." So how is that any different from what I've said about our media. You didn't offer one bit of proof that our media is not biast. I offered evidence.
Secondly I assume you have no visited Iraq? So how would you know first of all how many loyalists there are left. Secondly how would you know the overall attitdue in each and every city is the same? We are not rebuilding Iraq to be their buddies. We are rebuilding that country because we believe everyone in Iraq deserves freedom and the libertys every human should possess.
I for one believe that just the fact that women are allowed to become educated and have the same rights as men was reason enough to go to war. We have quite a list of reasons this was the right thing to do. And I am sorry if you don't agree with this. Do not call my views assinine because they are not yours. Your views are not the supreme answer here. I understand you are a college student and believe me the world has alot to teach you. I've changed my views on everything since I was 20. But you need to understand that disagreement does not give you the right to criticize anyone or their views. Putting in your 2 cents in fine but calling anything assinine shows that you have no valid arguement against the topic.

NikiH wrote:Ok first of all you are generalizing an entire cultural group by saying "All mulim people have been called upon by various lears to kill Americans...." So how is that any different from what I've said about our media.

lol, all Muslims have been called upon, by Bin Laden and other terrorist leaders. That is fact. The fact that they have been "called upon" is different than saying all Muslims will kill American's given the chance.

NikiH wrote:You didn't offer one bit of proof that our media is not biast. I offered evidence.

I am saying that the media is not biased as a whole, it's ludicrous to think so. There are plenty of news sources, and obviously some are slanted to the left or the right but it is very even. I'm sure you will have no problem finding one to pump more of your own beliefs into your head, but I am a believer in consulting all aspects of a situation based on various sources before I decide on something. The fact that you Warhawks can't acknowledge ONE negative thing about this conflict (of which there are many) is astounding! Being open-minded doesn't mean you should see things my way, but it means trying to see ALL sides of the issue.

NikiH wrote:We are not rebuilding Iraq to be their buddies. We are rebuilding that country because we believe everyone in Iraq deserves freedom and the libertys every human should possess. I for one believe that just the fact that women are allowed to become educated and have the same rights as men was reason enough to go to war. We have quite a list of reasons this was the right thing to do. And I am sorry if you don't agree with this. Do not call my views assinine because they are not yours.

America has never had a policy of altruism before. Do you honestly believe America is just trying to spread charity around the world?!!? If this were true then why not go save Tibet? Why not go liberate Latin America? Why not take all of our resources and blow them on fixing everyone elses problems? Make NO mistake that we would not be into this venture unless someone was profiting from it.

NikiH wrote:But you need to understand that disagreement does not give you the right to criticize anyone or their views. Putting in your 2 cents in fine but calling anything assinine shows that you have no valid arguement against the topic.

I am not criticizing anyone's views, just questioning the methods at which they come to understand the problem. If you just look at the situation in Iraq in black and white, then something is wrong. This situation is neither bad or good, there is evidence that positives AND negatives are coming out of the situation. It's perfectly acceptable to have a differing view, but having that view "just because" or ignoring other views because they don't jive with your own isn't.

Last edited by Skinsfan55 on Tue May 04, 2004 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

This thread is getting ridiculous. SF55, your post is directly insulting to my wife, and that is unacceptable. Debate is one thing, but there is no need to imply she is stupid because she misspelled biased. I understand that arguments can become heated, especially over these kinds of things. There are those of us who have formed our opinion on this issue based upon whatever criteria we saw fit. You have done the same. These views aren't the same. You are not going to change anyones mind, much the same as we are not going to change your mind. I would appreciate it if you showed my wife some respect. This thread has deteriorated from a thought provoking debate to name-calling and idle banter. I hope that we can all agree to disagree in a respectful manner and let this thread die.

RIP 21

"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru

JansenFan wrote:This thread is getting ridiculous. SF55, your post is directly insulting to my wife, and that is unacceptable. Debate is one thing, but there is no need to imply she is stupid because she misspelled biased. I understand that arguments can become heated, especially over these kinds of things. There are those of us who have formed our opinion on this issue based upon whatever criteria we saw fit. You have done the same. These views aren't the same. You are not going to change anyones mind, much the same as we are not going to change your mind. I would appreciate it if you showed my wife some respect. This thread has deteriorated from a thought provoking debate to name-calling and idle banter. I hope that we can all agree to disagree in a respectful manner and let this thread die.

You're right, if I offended anyone I apologize. The purpose behind this post was to have a debate about a topic, not to bicker about who's right or who's wrong (no one is right or wrong.) I was trying to inquire about the idea's of others and to try to see a view of a situation other than my own. Along the way I have encountered a lot of rudness myself, and I have yet to have anyone convince me that this war is a good thing. I have however come to see that SOME good comes from the war and the fact that everyone else is too stubborn to admit that there are negative aspects as well is extremely frustrating. It feels to me that, as I am trying to learn more about the subject and provoke thought in others that others are trying to force their ideas on me. Rather than reflecting on anything I've said they dismiss it imediately and try to insult me with lables like "fruity" and "liberal". It makes some of the warhawks in this thread look narrowminded and bigoted. Now, he disagrees with me, but off the top of my head the only poster in this thread who I can think of that showed me any respect at all while disagreeing was SFIR, I respect his opinion on the matter, and yet I am still in disagreement... I wish more people knew how to do that.

That said, I'm sorry for taking the frustration that I am feeling on this subject and projecting it on NikiH, who in all fairness is far from the most frustrating person who has posted here.

My only beef with Muslims is the lack of outrage at those who carry out acts of horror claiming to be Muslims. They're not true Muslims when they act in direct opposition to the teaching of the religions. Perhaps it's dangerous to do so under present conditions. In the end, I hope the true Muslims win over the fake, evil little bastards out there committing such horrendous acts. Real Muslims should step forward and vocally, loudly condemn those pretenders.