This does not answer my question. In fact, it nicely skates around my question. Facts do not always affect belief. In your opinion, you say that there are no logical facts that they existed but that does that mean that you do not BELIEVE that they existed.

Hi iffo, I hope you are well. The idea that somehow something is ONLY ever true if you can see it with you own eyes is really quite absurd. For a start there are many things we do not see, most gases for a start, and also, the other way round we all actually know that our own eyes can deceive us at times. (well, in reality the way the brain makes sense of sensory information). Here is an example:

We all see the same image. Some say they see an old man, some a young girl, some an old lady.

Some see all three at different times.

So if someone boasts "I only believe what I can see" I like to show him pictures like that. It proves that our brain actually makes sense of the visual information by trying to match it to something familiar. This process is not error free.

All of us have to believe quite a few things in everyday live to be able to function. For example this morning I paid a bill at the bank. I believed that the bank will actually forward my payment to the recipient and not spend it on coffee and snacks for the management meeting. I had no proof they would do that at all, but I trusted them. If none of us had any such trust in other people, the world could not function.

So what things shouldwe believe and what things shouldn't we? That is perhaps an interesting topic...

Al-Fatihah wrote:You do not have observable evidence of a dinosaur or a fossil forming. Therefore, you have no logical evidence that dinosaurs or dinosaur fossils exist as you have no firsthand evidence. Your argument of assimilation proves my point, as you assimilate through direct observations. Yet you have no direct observable evidence of a dinosaur or a fossil forming.

So according to your own assimilation argument, both are false.

How about mammoets Al-Fatihah ? Have they ever existed?

In this picture you see a human, an elephant and a mammoet.[/quote

Response: There is no logical evidence that they have existed.

Only twisted logic like yours can deny this photo depicting a 40,000 yrs woolly Monmouth found fully preserved in Siberia

manfred wrote:We all see the same image. Some say they see an old man, some a young girl, some an old lady.

Some see all three at different times.

So if someone boasts "I only believe what I can see" I like to show him pictures like that. It proves that our brain actually makes sense of the visual information by trying to match it to something familiar. This process is not error free.

All of us have to believe quite a few things in everyday live to be able to function. For example this morning I paid a bill at the bank. I believed that the bank will actually forward my payment to the recipient and not spend it on coffee and snacks for the management meeting. I had no proof they would do that at all, but I trusted them. If none of us had any such trust in other people, the world could not function.

So what things should we believe and what things shouldn't we? That is perhaps an interesting topic...

There is another important element which is not discussed here. The transfer of knowledge from one generation down to next. The very reason we have libraries.One can not blame our poor Islamists. After all their entire religion is based & compiled by one man, and over one generation. Muhammad "discovered" the past, Present & the future for Muslims. He "saw" it with his own eyes, and heard with his own ears.

That what our scholar al-fatihah means when he say "see", "hear", "touch", or "taste". To understand him, we need to see the world from his glasses - not ours.

manfred wrote:Hi iffo, I hope you are well. The idea that somehow something is ONLY ever true if you can see it with you own eyes is really quite absurd. For a start there are many things we do not see, most gases for a start, and also, the other way round we all actually know that our own eyes can deceive us at times. (well, in reality the way the brain makes sense of sensory information). Here is an example:

We all see the same image. Some say they see an old man, some a young girl, some an old lady.

Some see all three at different times.

So if someone boasts "I only believe what I can see" I like to show him pictures like that. It proves that our brain actually makes sense of the visual information by trying to match it to something familiar. This process is not error free.

All of us have to believe quite a few things in everyday live to be able to function. For example this morning I paid a bill at the bank. I believed that the bank will actually forward my payment to the recipient and not spend it on coffee and snacks for the management meeting. I had no proof they would do that at all, but I trusted them. If none of us had any such trust in other people, the world could not function.

So what things shouldwe believe and what things shouldn't we? That is perhaps an interesting topic...

yes you are right that's an interesting topic. Our eyes don't see lot of things or see differently.

It`s a pity that Al-Fatihah is not at present in this thread as I particularly wanted an answer from him. In answer to my question as to whether he believed dinosaurs had existed he replied by saying that there was no logical evidence to support the claim that they did once exist but that did not answer the question as what he "believed".

Well, the Koran says that all that is not forbidden is permitted. Does it similarly say that all that is not denied is true? Or does it say all that is not declared true is false? As the ultimate guide for humankind for all time, is surely says one or the other. I can imagine the answer...

'It's a choice between the MONSTERS and the MANIACS'Dr Julian Lewis M.P. (Chair, UK Defense Committee) on the conflict in Syria

sum wrote:It`s a pity that Al-Fatihah is not at present in this thread as I particularly wanted an answer from him. In answer to my question as to whether he believed dinosaurs had existed he replied by saying that there was no logical evidence to support the claim that they did once exist but that did not answer the question as what he "believed".

I wanted a clear answer from him as to what he believed.

sum

Manfred banned Al-Fatihah.. old people get easily offended..

Jomo Kenyatta, President of Kenya “When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed.When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

sum wrote:It`s a pity that Al-Fatihah is not at present in this thread as I particularly wanted an answer from him. In answer to my question as to whether he believed dinosaurs had existed he replied by saying that there was no logical evidence to support the claim that they did once exist but that did not answer the question as what he "believed".

I wanted a clear answer from him as to what he believed.

sum

Manfred banned Al-Fatihah.. old people get easily offended..

He left the forum because his ass was handed to him by non-Muslim member here.

It looks like Al-Fatihah has left FFI forum. I suspect that his co-religionists made him leave because he had made both himself and Islam look absolutely foolish. I am sure that his co-religionists would regard him as an embarrassment and the non-muslims will have had their eyes opened as to what an Islamic indoctrination does to the mind.

I am glad that he appeared in the forum as he was a true asset in our cause.

Muslims now know that they can never win any discussion and so keep away. I well remember asking a muslim if he could write a verse that was more clear than the one under discussion at the time. He said that he could. Within 10mns he reappeared and said that he could not write a clearer verse than that in the Koran. He must have been warned that he was committing blasphemy.

Until I joined FFI many years ago I never realised how severely the muslim mind is damaged and controlled. I used to think that Ali Sina was a little harsh when he described muslims as zombies but now I have to agree with him. They have no critical thinking and no questioning. Everything in Islam, Koran and Muhammad is all true and acceptable. It is frightening.

There is no question, al-fatihah is exceptionally intelligent guy - except on religious matters. Notwithstanding, I think after many posts, he simply stopped believing in his own post, and realized he was not making sense - even to himself. He Perhaps realized the absurdity of the way he was taught to think and conceive the whole notion of "logic", and critical thinking. His pride will not allow him to admit his mistake.

We will see if he comes back or stays out.

One of the most attractive element in our blog here. Unlike other similar blogs, we use simple logic, and cite Muslims own quran to force them to look at the mirror in different ways then what they have been indoctrinated to look.

The beauty of our polemic is that, we force Muslim to look at Muhammad as normal human being, and bring him down to size, with all limitations which we all normal humans share.

Hombre wrote:There is no question, al-fatihah is exceptionally intelligent guy - except on religious matters. Notwithstanding, I think after many posts, he simply stopped believing in his own post, and realized he was not making sense - even to himself. He Perhaps realized the absurdity of the way he was taught to think and conceive the whole notion of "logic", and critical thinking. His pride will not allow him to admit his mistake.

We will see if he comes back or stays out.

One of the most attractive element in our blog here. Unlike other similar blogs, we use simple logic, and cite Muslims own quran to force them to look at the mirror in different ways then what they have been indoctrinated to look.

The beauty of our polemic is that, we force Muslim to look at Muhammad as normal human being, and bring him down to size, with all limitations which we all normal humans share.

Response: What you do is show your own ignorance of Islamic sources why being exposed of your silly belief in evolution, which is based upon hypocritical and contradicting logic as explained in the OP. Thereby always exposing yourself and the sheer absurdity of atheists/agnostics.

but when the proof is brought as requested, you are unable or unwilling to process the information provided to you. Instead you all you do is forever repeat one liners saying that your opening post is true and nothing else matters.

This last response is yet another example... you do not even try to address anything, you just all all that is said various derogatory terms, and/or insult other users.

It is kind of rich to read your abuse of Hombre given the ludicrous things you said in this thread.

The newly-discovered dinosaur, which has not yet been named, is estimated to have weighed around 70 tonnes, the weight of 920 average adults, and believed to have measured 37 metres from nose to tail - the length of four double-decker buses...The long-extinct creature's thigh bone alone is almost 8 feet tall, and provided the key to the species' discovery.