The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

The Rasa’il were made public by the Imam and placed in every single masjid in the time of the Abbasid caliphs. They were purposely written in a style and language to appeal to all muslims.

These books were written for the general public. If you need a teacher to understand them then go ahead and search for a teacher, but dont claim they cannot be understood without one. Treatises are written so that they can become a gateway for intellectuals, and hiding them for want of a teacher has done more damage to bohris than supposedly misunderstanding the treatises.

true_bohra wrote:I genuinely want to ask that by mere reading Ikhwan as safa, will we be able to understand it??

It is a pool of knowledge which I think requires a teacher to make us understand.

And why put it now, he was maintaining his website previously also, he did not put it that time.

brother have u ever learn to do Humd and shukr be thankful to any one?

btw neither fatemidawat nor dawoodi-bohras.com is running with MS raza, why are you even bother to come here?

I think your local Amil will be a good teacher for you, please learn from him, and leave this place for those who wants to learn from open sources.

if you have already given misaaq to MS, kindly please stick to it, and obey your dai.

I very well know to do hamd of Allah for his bounties upon me. and my question was just a simple ask. What has irked you so much about it.

If he had translations about this books then why did not he put it previously. Also, I only suggested that how can a hi fi book like Ikhwan as safa be understood without a teacher otherwise I dont find any wrong in reading from open sources. GO FOR IT!!!

Sequence wrote:
brother have u ever learn to do Humd and shukr be thankful to any one?

btw neither fatemidawat nor dawoodi-bohras.com is running with MS raza, why are you even bother to come here?

I think your local Amil will be a good teacher for you, please learn from him, and leave this place for those who wants to learn from open sources.

if you have already given misaaq to MS, kindly please stick to it, and obey your dai.

I very well know to do hamd of Allah for his bounties upon me. and my question was just a simple ask. What has irked you so much about it.

If he had translations about this books then why did not he put it previously. Also, I only suggested that how can a hi fi book like Ikhwan as safa be understood without a teacher otherwise I dont find any wrong in reading from open sources. GO FOR IT!!!

may be its hi fi book for low IQ muffy supporters, but a decent intellectual person wont find it too hi fi.

after all it was meant for dawah and not to lock it up in jamiya library for few chosen one to read.

I think you are too low to understand what things it containts. and it was never locked up in Jamiya library. It is openly taught but you have failed to understand it.

Well let me help you with this:
The Rasa’il Ikhwan al-Safa’ (Epistles of the Brethren of Purity) consist of fifty-two treatises in mathematics, natural sciences, psychology (psychical sciences) and theology. The first part, which is on mathematics, groups fourteen epistles that include treatises in arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, geography, and music, along with tracts in elementary logic, inclusive of: the Isagoge, the Categories, De Interpretatione, the Prior Analytics and the Posterior Analytics. The second part, which is on natural sciences, gathers seventeen epistles on matter and form, generation and corruption, metallurgy, meteorology, a study of the essence of nature, the classes of plants and animals, including a fable. The third part, which is on psychology, comprises ten epistles on the psychical and intellective sciences, dealing with the nature of the intellect and the intelligible, the symbolism of temporal cycles, the mystical essence of love, resurrection, causes and effects, definitions and descriptions. The fourth part deals with theology in eleven epistles, investigating the varieties of religious sects, the virtue of the companionship of the Brethren of Purity, the properties of genuine belief, the nature of the Divine Law, the species of politics, and the essence of magic.

Did you learn all this in your school just by mere reading it. without any teacher...SERIOUSLY???

true_bohra wrote:I think you are too low to understand what things it containts. and it was never locked up in Jamiya library. It is openly taught but you have failed to understand it.

Well let me help you with this:
The Rasa’il Ikhwan al-Safa’ (Epistles of the Brethren of Purity) consist of fifty-two treatises in mathematics, natural sciences, psychology (psychical sciences) and theology. The first part, which is on mathematics, groups fourteen epistles that include treatises in arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, geography, and music, along with tracts in elementary logic, inclusive of: the Isagoge, the Categories, De Interpretatione, the Prior Analytics and the Posterior Analytics. The second part, which is on natural sciences, gathers seventeen epistles on matter and form, generation and corruption, metallurgy, meteorology, a study of the essence of nature, the classes of plants and animals, including a fable. The third part, which is on psychology, comprises ten epistles on the psychical and intellective sciences, dealing with the nature of the intellect and the intelligible, the symbolism of temporal cycles, the mystical essence of love, resurrection, causes and effects, definitions and descriptions. The fourth part deals with theology in eleven epistles, investigating the varieties of religious sects, the virtue of the companionship of the Brethren of Purity, the properties of genuine belief, the nature of the Divine Law, the species of politics, and the essence of magic.

Did you learn all this in your school just by mere reading it. without any teacher...SERIOUSLY???

which school Muhammed(s) went to understand message of Allah?

where is it written in QURAAN one always needs teacher to learn some thing?

Mohammed (saw) was gifted with ilham from Allah through his sacred angels. Are you from the same category...

by the way if you can understnad something from Ikhwan as safa...then I am posting this link for you from this very forum...it contains certain images....pls figure it out and explain me also...it would be very kind of you.

true_bohri, I also used to believe this notion of requiring a teacher. But these treatises ARE written so that intellectuals can read and get knowledge. They are not like school textbooks where there is a question/answer exercise at the end of the chapters and a teacher is expected to read from the book infront of a classroom. The author of this treatise is the teacher and the intellectual reading it is supposed to understand it. Ofcourse, the author did not write them for uneducated simpletons and common folk, who may require a teacher, in which case their reading treatises is not recommended anyway.

All such treatises contain metaphysical and philosophical jargon. Does not mean that the Ikhwan as Safa should be hidden from the common folk. It looks like a brave step by SKQ, since as a start, only few chapters are released online. Maybe the deeper metaphysical chapters will be released with sufficient commentary and avenues will be created for discussion/debate. So that the larger public can be invited into the deeper mysteries. MUCH much better than the Orwellian mindset of STS SMB and SMS, where access to real information is highly restricted, and the common folk are satiated by regurgitating Shahadat bayans.

true_bohra wrote:Mohammed (saw) was gifted with ilham from Allah through his sacred angels. Are you from the same category...

by the way if you can understnad something from Ikhwan as safa...then I am posting this link for you from this very forum...it contains certain images....pls figure it out and explain me also...it would be very kind of you.

arrey so I am asking you humbly....explain me those diagrams...I want to know them from you.

It is not necessary that it should be understood from the person whom we have given misaaq...You guys think we the followers of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS are low IQ people so this time I should learn interpretation of these diagrams from Hi IQ people like you who can understand all this texts just by reading it.

Not meaning to boast, but the second diagram is pretty standard, and understandable for people with knowledge on the subject. If you want to know more, read other spiritual treatises by Ghazali, Ibn Arabi, and other metaphysical texts as a foundation. This is a barbaric mentality that if a book is beyond your understanding, let no one else read it. I can PM you if you want, but i'd prefer that you educate yourself on this subject.

The first diagram is in arabic only unfortunately. It depicts the text in a Fibonacci spiral, an integral part of the universes design. I suggest you read more on this, and "sacred geometry". I dont know what it says though since its in arabic.

Please don't base your entire argument on your own capability of comprehension. There are many who can comprehend these books. In fact, do you really believe that the Imam wrote this book so that it says holed up in secret libraries? If someone explains to you what those two diagrams mean will you suddenly be in favour of mass-publishing all such books?

Wait for the full translation of the text, then let those who want knowledge read. Do you really believe no intellectual would understand the metaphysical concepts of the two random diagrams? That is why they were written down with explanations. Once they are published with proper translation and explanations, it would be fairly easy.

The second diagram is easy to comprehend, but dont ask me to explain it to you w/o reading the text associated with it. No one can just look at a diagram and explain what the author means, without reading what the author actually wrote about it.

All the fatemi litrature and books written during the period of Imams and by duaats are available in Arabic language. Some of the ambitious young and energetic members of Udaipur youth jamat is working hard on digitalising these books in PDF format. more than 100 books has been completed and work is in progress to complete another 350 books. Lets hope that coming generation will not misguided by the current history changing campaign by kothar.

Hussain_KSA wrote:All the fatemi litrature and books written during the period of Imams and by duaats are available in Arabic language. Some of the ambitious young and energetic members of Udaipur youth jamat is working hard on digitalising these books in PDF format. more than 100 books has been completed and work is in progress to complete another 350 books. Lets hope that coming generation will not misguided by the current history changing campaign by kothar.

This is interesting. Can these books be shared? I would appreciate that and am sure many of us would be happy too.