Hawaii Reiterates: Obama Birth Certificate is Real

The director of the Hawaii Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, has issued a second statement that she has personally seen Barack Obama’s original birth certificate from 1961 in the state’s archives: Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real.

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….”

On Oct. 31, Fukino originally tried to put an end to the belief among so-called “birthers” that Obama was not born in the United States and thus was ineligible to run for the office of president.

Despite Fukino’s statement today, the issue continued to resonate from Capitol Hill to the national airwaves to the blogosphere.

Of course it “continued to resonate.” Facts and logic have no effect on true believers of a conspiracy theory, and I’m sure they’ve already come up with a delusional answer to this announcement.

Also last night, nine Republican co-sponsors of a Nirther-inspired bill signed a resolution including a specific statement that Obama was born in Hawaii.

It’s symbolic, but Democrats have scored a victory [of sorts] over nine House Republicans who signed on to the so-called “Birther” bill — getting them on the record in support of a resolution that explicitly states that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

I’ve heard that there might be a new series of Hawaii 5-0, this time, with “McGarrett’s son” and “Dan’l son” in those roles.
I can just see an episode in which they have to deal with nirthers who are trying to break in to the records storage to steal the birth certificate, and replace it with one showing he was born elsewhere.

I’ve heard that there might be a new series of Hawaii 5-0, this time, with “McGarrett’s son” and “Dan’l son” in those roles.
I can just see an episode in which they have to deal with nirthers who are trying to break in to the records storage to steal the birth certificate, and replace it with one showing he was born elsewhere.

You are all forgetting that this just means the conspiracy is at an even higher level… The whole state government of Hawaii is in on this.. The Illuminati have penetrated even deeper than first thought.

Much foolishness has become attached to the question of President Obama’s place of birth, and a few misguided souls among the Right have indulged it. The myth that Barack Obama is ineligible to be president represents the hunt for a magic bullet that will make all the unpleasant complications of his election and presidency disappear. We are used to seeing conspiracy theories from the Left, for instance among the one in three Democrats who believe that 9/11 was an inside job conducted with the foreknowledge of the Bush administration. We’ve seen everything under the sun blamed on Dick Cheney and Halliburton, and Rosie O’Donnell has given us much mirth with her metallurgical expertise, while Andrew Sullivan has beclowned himself and tarnished the good name of The Atlantic with his investigation into the “real” parentage of Trig Palin. Most notable, the Iraq War summoned the craziness in a big way, and there are those who still shudder over their espressos at the mention of the Carlyle Group. And there is a fair amount of crossover between those fixated on Obama’s birth certificate and the 9/11 “truthers” — lawyer Phil Berg, for instance, is a player in both worlds. There is nothing that President Obama’s coterie would enjoy more than to see the responsible Right become a mirror image of the loopy Left circa 2003.

The Pentaverate still are restructuring since the Colonel died. It hit them hard.

My grandfather was a mason. He seemed pretty tame. I think he golfed.

My mother has his ring. I think I’ve played too many video games, because I keep hoping it will open a secret passage somewhere and start us all on a mysterious quest to find the answer to an ages-old question.

Most likely, it will continue to sit in my mother’s jewelry box as a reminder of a really great guy, but I can hope.

The front page of World Nut Daily is hilarious this morning. Headlines include…

In the interest of accuracy, they are right about CNN being wrong. Just a couple of days ago CNN reported (perhaps made-up out of whole cloth) that all original birth certificates were destroyed when HI migrated to a computerized vital records system. That factoid appears now to be entirely inaccurate, according to Dr. Fukino. Just another in a long line of stories that CNN mangles.

In the interest of accuracy, they are right about CNN being wrong. Just a couple of days ago CNN reported (perhaps made-up out of whole cloth) that all original birth certificates were destroyed when HI migrated to a computerized vital records system. That factoid appears now to be entirely inaccurate, according to Dr. Fukino. Just another in a long line of stories that CNN mangles.

OH NO!!! The birthers will use that as reason to think CNN let slip the real conspiracy..

OK, we may have to grant that he was born in Hawai’i. But Hawai’i is the youngest state in the Union. That tells me something is wrong. And if you take a set of dividers and run it from Hawai’i to the mainland, then sweep northwards in an arc, you’ll see that this so-called “state” is almost as close to Russian as it is to US!

Something’s definitely going on here, and thank God for the brave birthers who are willing to put their reputations and sanity on the line to find out what it is!

I still think that someone comes up with these stupid conspiracies and releases them on the internet just to see who will believe it. Of course, that in itself is a conspiracy… Now I’ve stumbled on it…

OK, we may have to grant that he was born in Hawai’i. But Hawai’i is the youngest state in the Union. That tells me something is wrong. And if you take a set of dividers and run it from Hawai’i to the mainland, then sweep northwards in an arc, you’ll see that this so-called “state” is almost as close to Russian as it is to US!

Something’s definitely going on here, and thank God for the brave birthers who are willing to put their reputations and sanity on the line to find out what it is!

I still think that someone comes up with these stupid conspiracies and releases them on the internet just to see who will believe it. Of course, that in itself is a conspiracy… Now I’ve stumbled on it…

Now, all we have to do is write a book and we can make a few bucks peddling it to these suckers.

Conspiracy theories become “contagious” when seemingly respectable authority figures endorse them. The opinions of politicians, authors, preachers or celebrities can have authority for susceptible people. Their endorsement of a conspiracy theory authorizes the believer to accepting the delusion.

The believer, being in on the “truth” now possesses a special secret power which provides a sense of security previously lacking. This need for security explains the reluctance of a believer to give up the conspiracy theory in the face of fact, reason and evidence. The believer initially felt powerless and insecure. The conspiracy theory explained the danger in a way which made the believer feel powerful and secure. Any fact which contradicts the conspiracy theory is therefore seen as a direct and dangerous threat to the psyche of the believer. This is how contrary evidence is perceived as further proof of the conspiracy.

To insist upon the veracity of contrary factual evidence will elicit a fear/threat response in the believer. Point out that fire does indeed melt steel, or that Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate is a real birth certificate: it does not get the conspiracy theory believer to open his mind and consider other possibilities. Rather, it threatens and enrages them into still greater levels of irrationality.

Actually, to be completely serious, the real problem here is that the American people, or at least the 99.999997% of us that don’t live in a plywood shack in the woods and think the woodpeckers are sending secret messages, need to believe in the validity of the American election process.

This is one attack on that, and it is dangerous for that reason. There are already lots of little chinks in that dam both from the perspective of the left and the right, and we don’t need any more.

OK, we may have to grant that he was born in Hawai’i. But Hawai’i is the youngest state in the Union. That tells me something is wrong. And if you take a set of dividers and run it from Hawai’i to the mainland, then sweep northwards in an arc, you’ll see that this so-called “state” is almost as close to Russian as it is to US!

Something’s definitely going on here, and thank God for the brave birthers who are willing to put their reputations and sanity on the line to find out what it is!

Gee! I hadn’t thought of that, and I was out there when it became a state! Now I recall all those red hibiscuses all over th’ place! GAAK! Hawaii was brought into the Union so Obama would be a citizen when he was born!

Ok, fine, I will stop contesting the birth certificate issue. He was certainly born in the United States, he is a United States citizen and this issue is close, solved and we birthers have been proven wrong.

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago…”

Ok, fine, I will stop contesting the birth certificate issue. He was certainly born in the United States, he is a United States citizen and this issue is close, solved and we birthers have been proven wrong.

Good point! Hawaii is not a “Native born land mass”. Hawaii is an island not part of the native Pangaea super-continent The “state” trust itself up from the ocean floor just a short time ago, relative to “native” land masses like North America and Europe. In this respect Hawaii is like an illegal alien. How can anyone born there be a true citizen of the US, or even the Earth for that mater!

And I’m quite sure that Chiyome Fukino has seen and verified Obama’s original birth certificate. She’s not lying.

But this does bring up a question that has still not been resolved. The birthers ask it as a rhetorical question, but let’s ask it for real:

Why hasn’t Obama authorized that a photograph or a verified copy of his original birth certificate be released to the public?

Now, the birthers ask this question simply to provide the “obvious” answer: Because it doesn’t exist!

Which of course is just a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up.

However, the anti-birthers just as often give their answer: He won’t release it because by withholding it he’s cleverly allowing the birther movement to discredit itself and as a result the far right wing looks like a bunch of crazies.

But there’s no evidence for this assertion either. I don’t think Obama needs to play juvenile “Gotcha!” games to discredit the far right. He’s already been elected, and as far as the Democrats are concerned, the far right are already completely irrelevant.

So I think that there must be some other reason.

It not that it doesn’t exist.
It’s not that Obama is simply trying to “drive his opponents crazy” with frustration.

My only conclusion is: There’s something else on that certificate which would be embarrassing to him, and which he doesn’t want the country to see. But what?

We already know that he has an Islamic name. That wouldn’t be an embarrassment — it’s already a known fact.

We already know that his mother was still a minor. Not embarrassing.

So what else is left? I can only see two possibilities:

a. That it lists his mother as being single, whereas Obama has always claimed she and his father were married at the time.

OR

b. It lists his “race” as being something other than “negro” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time).

I think option “a” is very unlikely because in Obama’s view, being the child of a single mother wouldn’t be something to hide — it would be something to brag about. More evidence that he lifted himself up out of poverty and deprivation to the White House.

Therefore, I have a strong suspicion that the answer is “b”: that he is listed as being “caucasian” or “white” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time). Which would completely undermine his entire constructed “life story” about which he wrote two books and on which he has based his entire political career.

Gee! I hadn’t thought of that, and I was out there when it became a state! Now I recall all those red hibiscuses all over th’ place! GAAK! Hawaii was brought into the Union so Obama would be a citizen when he was born!

/heh … am I on the right track?

Yes, grasshopper. But the conspiracy runs much, much deeper. When you are ready I shall tell you more. For now, know this: it involves time-travel and aliens. And Elvis. And the recent “death” of Michael Jackson.

Occam’s Razor time. Both are plausible, but as to why Obama wouldn’t authorize a release could be just as much due to Obama’s vindictiveness. We’ve already seen it with “The Won” crap. Why wouldn’t he use this to rub it in to the right and everyone else. Keep everyone frothing mad over this sideshow while he continues pushing forward with his agenda.

Neither possibilities have much significance. I’m going with the rope-a-dope explanation. The more the GOP talks about this the stupider they look. Why stop a good thing?

Personally I think the birth cert is something of “the shiny object” for him. The real thing I would like to see are his grades from school. If he was so great, then lets see the transcript and all those articles he published as president of the law review.

isn’t the same info on both doc’s. I too have no doubt he was born here and believe that if it could be proven, Hillary would have found it out.

I would be curious to see both to see if there is something embarrassing. I would also like to see his college transcripts. Maybe with both documents we could prove he was dumb and white…MSM would be devastated.

OH NO!!! The birthers will use that as reason to think CNN let slip the real conspiracy..

I think that’s unfortunately right. To be clear, I’m in no way a “birther”. But, I didn’t come to that conclusion based on any of the “birth certificate” claims that have been made either by the believers or the Obama camp. For me, it’s the contemporary birth announcements that would be impossible to fake that remove all doubt about Obama’s birth place.

However, I do believe that there’s something(s) on that original document that Obama doesn’t want getting out. Also, I think it’s strange how other historical documents he hasn’t released about himself and the deafening silence of the media about that lack of candor and transparency. For whatever reason, we no less about Obama’s formative years than we do about any other presidential candidate in the last 50 years, except for the things that Obama claims to be true in his two autobiographies. If news organizations can send teams of journalists to Wassilla, AK to dig through Palin’s trash, I think a demand to see Obama’s college transcripts wouldn’t have been too difficult to muster. I think it’s fog that obscures Obama’s past that drives many of these crazy birther nuts.

[…] Therefore, I have a strong suspicion that the answer is “b”: that he is listed as being “caucasian” or “white” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time). Which would completely undermine his entire constructed “life story” about which he wrote two books and on which he has based his entire political career.

Thoughts?

I think you’re grasping at hypothetical straws.

He hasn’t released the “vault” certificate because he doesn’t have to. Sticking a finger in the eyes of the nuts is just icing on the cake.

Thoughts? Well anything is possible. The thing is - does any of it matter? I do not think so. Barack is an adult now and he was born here. Obsessing over his birth certificate and insisting we must all see it makes the right look like Andrew Sullivan. His obsession and insistence that Palin was not the real mother of her baby ruined his credibility. Enough already!

…it could be that 0bama likes keeping the nirther movement alive, just to keep the opposition in disarray.

I really think that’s the truth of it. You don’t have to be a protege of Saul Alinsky (which Barack Obama is) or even a student of Machiavelli to know that when your opponents are making fools of themselves, you let them.

Personally I think the birth cert is something of “the shiny object” for him. The real thing I would like to see are his grades from school. If he was so great, then lets see the transcript and all those articles he published as president of the law review.

Mike: At the risk of repeating myself…

From the Office of Double Standards (ODS), Rule #1:

1. Requesting information about a Democratic officeholder is natural curiosity on the part of an engaged citizenry.

Sample dialog: “The guy could put a stop to all this, today, by just showing us the stuff. What does he have to hide? Where there’s smoke, etc…”

Sample dialog: “Admit it, all you’re wanting to do is dig up dirt to make the guy look bad. It’s just a distraction from all the problems we have. Jeez, Louise, dude, man up and get over it. The guy won, and you need to suck it up and get a life.”

Hmmm, everybody still seems to be on board with the “He’s withholding it as a clever political strategy to ‘give the crazies more rope with which to hang themselves’ ” thesis.

But the more I think about it, the less convinced I am of that possibility. I admit it’s possible, but it still seems like a campaign strategy, not a governance policy.

Purposely dangling the sealed birth certificate in front of his opponents’ noses is so 2008.

Another option which I haven’t mentioned is that he simply doesn’t care — the whole nirther thing is far beneath his notice. He would more like brush away a mosquito than respond to nirther demands one way or the other. it may not be an intentional strategy — but rather an accidental strategy while he’s off doing more important things like nationalizing the economy.

It would appear that it became necessary to back-date Hawaii’s entrance into the U.S to 1959. Originally it was 1962, but when it was learned that Barack Obama had been born in 1961 chaos erupted. Knowing that Obama would someday run as the first black presidential candidate, state officials held a series of secret meetings with representatives of the State Department and the much lesser known Department of Fixing Fuckups. All official documents regarding Hawaii’s entrance were emended secretly, and all other evidence of the original 1962 date obliterated. All appeared to go smoothly, until October of 2008, when a lone driver’s license receipt from the Hawaii Department of Motor Vehicles, containing the original date, was unearthed. In a panic, the Hawaii Department of Holy Crap sent a crack team of undercover agents to detain Mrs. Patsy Pimalao, 89, who, it should be noted, also still had her original “Hawaii - Proud State since 1962” vanity plates on her 1963 Dodge. The team retrieved the smoking gun receipt, which was then destroyed by stuffing it into a pig being roasted for the annual department picnic. They also removed the vanity plates which are now rumored to be nailed to the wall of a barn somewhere in western Pennsylvania. Mrs. Pimalao has not been seen or heard from since.

Phew, there! That ought to give the conspiracy nuts something new to go crazy over.

Thoughts? Well anything is possible. The thing is - does any of it matter? I do not think so. Barack is an adult now and he was born here. Obsessing over his birth certificate and insisting we must all see it makes the right look like Andrew Sullivan. His obsession and insistence that Palin was not the real mother of her baby ruined his credibility. Enough already!

I agree! I’m not the one raising this topic — it’s of no interest to me personally. I’m only talking about it because it is the pre-existing topic of conversation.

Maybe that his religion is listed as Muslim? And the Secret Service would be afraid that this would make security harder since according to Sharia law he would be an apostate who has forfeited his life.

It also could make it more difficult for him to deal with Islamic countries and their leaders in general. I’m no expert but there may be other bizarre rules of what they can and can’t do (such as meet, discuss or eat together) with a known apostate. I don’t think they even have to honor agreements with infidels much less apostates under Islamic law.

I recognize some pandering idiots from the Nirther Nine (Reps. Marsha Blackburn [R-Tenn.], Dan Burton [R-Ind.], John Campbell [R-Calif.] John Carter [R-Tex.], John Culberson [R-Tex.], Robert Goodlatte [R-Va.], Kenny Marchant [R-Tex.], Randy Neugebauer [R-Tex.]and Rep. Ted Poe [R-Tex.]) . No surprises there. Specifically, Texas had an outstanding showing. Add this to the creationist crap they’re pushing in Texas, and I imagine the non-idiots in Texas are embarrassed to death.

I’m a Texan, and I’m disappointed to see Texans on there. The strangest one to me though, is John Campbell. He’s frequently on with Hugh Hewitt, and he seems to be a level-headed guy. Hugh has made fun of the nirthers (he even uses the term “nirther”), so maybe he can talk some sense into Campbell.

Another option which I haven’t mentioned is that he simply doesn’t care — the whole nirther thing is far beneath his notice. He would more like brush away a mosquito than respond to nirther demands one way or the other. […]

Now that I can see. He’s President, conspiracy theories go with the job. That fly ain’t fat enough to swat.

Occam’s Razor time. Both are plausible, but as to why Obama wouldn’t authorize a release could be just as much due to Obama’s vindictiveness. We’ve already seen it with “The Won” crap. Why wouldn’t he use this to rub it in to the right and everyone else. Keep everyone frothing mad over this sideshow while he continues pushing forward with his agenda.

Is it known if the Obama camp has spent money “fighting” the legal side of this? If he has, it could well validate that he thinks it’s a winner to keep the issue out ther.

Yesterday I reread my own birth certificate. I was reminded that my mother was 33 when I was born. Other than that, no surprises. Nothing untrue.

I produced a copy of it to my last employer. Nothing to hid. Citizenship proven. Got the job.

I agree with your b). Something unsavory may be on his bc. What might that be? Don’t have a clue.

How could there be something “unsavory” on a freakin’ birth certificate? His little baby footprint has marks that read “I want to be president!”?

Parents are listed, their status is not defined. We already know that Barack Obama Sr. was already married in Kenya, so his marriage to Sidney Ann Dunham was bigamous, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t “married” so far as she knew.

Get over it. There’s nothing “unsavory” on anybody’s birth certificate!

The real First Prime is on one of their ships, waiting to attack. Gibbs is just a tool, destroying our military from the inside. You see, the F-22 is hard for the Go’auld to shoot down; that’s the real reason it was canceled.
///

Media sites and bloggers who promote Nirtherism should be shunned and made to pay a price for spreading this crap.

Shunning is the correct response. Those who grasp on to these theories do so mostly for the attention it brings them. Even if it’s negative attention, it’s still attention; suddenly, their presence in the world is noticed. That’s why so many of them rapidly dive off the deep end at engage in the most anti-social sorts of behavior imaginable - disrupting public meetings, buttonholing passerby while they harangue them, yelling at passing cars…the list goes on, but all such behavior increases the attention directed their way.

Any sort of acknowledgment, even a fact-based refutation, only serves to reinforce their behavior and their support of their pet theory, because any sort of response is giving them exactly what they want. It isn’t about the theory they’re peddling - it’s all about them, and the satisfaction they derive from being the center of attention, even if only briefly.

Ignoring them will result in a short-lived increase in activity, as they escalate their behavior trying to generate more responses. Once it becomes clear that no one is paying attention to them anymore, they’ll find some other avenue to attract it. It is extremely common for someone who endorses one conspiracy theory to quickly accept several more. It gives them an escape route; when those nearby start blowing them off, they can shift to an entirely different stage setting and perform the same act.

In the end, though, they’ll simply wander off if people stop paying attention to their ravings.

Ok, fine, I will stop contesting the birth certificate issue. He was certainly born in the United States, he is a United States citizen and this issue is close, solved and we birthers have been proven wrong.

Most birth certificates AFAIK do not list the marital status of the parents. The mother is always listed by her maiden name, so that wouldn’t help you determine if they were married, either. For comparison purpose, I just looked at my daughters’ birth certificates. The older one has a Certificate of Birth of a U.S. Citizen Abroad. It doesn’t even mention the parents’ names. The younger one, born in the U.S., lists me by my maiden name and there is no box for marital status. These are from 1987 and 1992, respectively. My husband’s and my certificates, from the early 1960s, are similar to my younger daughter’s (same state). Of course, things may have been done differently in Hawaii in 1961.

I agree! I’m not the one raising this topic — it’s of no interest to me personally. I’m only talking about it because it is the pre-existing topic of conversation.

Oh I know. You were just asking for thoughts - and those were mine. I wasn’t in any way accusing you of obsessing. You brought up some possible angles - and they are solid possibilities. My point is that folks should just drop it. I don’t care if his birth certificate says his mother was a tarantula from the planet zolon.

I’m a Texan, and I’m disappointed to see Texans on there. The strangest one to me though, is John Campbell. He’s frequently on with Hugh Hewitt, and he seems to be a level-headed guy. Hugh has made fun of the nirthers (he even uses the term “nirther”), so maybe he can talk some sense into Campbell.

To complicate the matter, Tom Campbell is running for governor of California. This will manage to turn a lot of people off him, confusion over names.

To all the nirthers I say “President Joe Biden, you gotta be kinding me.” Seriously do any of these twits actually think about the practical implications of their “attempts to unwind the conspiracy.” This is the same for the “Impeach Bush” crowd of the last eight years, did they really want the “Dark Lord” Dick Cheney as President.

Re # 108 Zombie

I vote for Pres. Obama letting Rep. Dan Burton and the other nirther twits chasing their own tails and just offending anyone with a brain cell, it worked for Pres. Clinton.

Enjoyed this speculation, but:
The mother’s choice of race (to match her own) would not be binding on the child. He could explain that he chose to self-identity as black, and his choice is the only one that matters.
Might the birth certificate have had an “other” option?

There should not be a race question on the birth certificate in any case, in my view.

The real First Prime is on one of their ships, waiting to attack. Gibbs is just a tool, destroying our military from the inside. You see, the F-22 is hard for the Go’auld to shoot down; that’s the real reason it was canceled.
///

Wrong. The F-22 was developed from technology lifted from a captured Death Glider. That’s why O put the kibosh on it.

The McCain meme was that he was brainwashed by the commies while a POW and had a sekret mission (ala Manchurian candidate) to destroy the US.

That wasn’t a leftie story. The folks who spread that BS around are right wingers and friends of former NH senator Bob Smith and a former nutjob representative nicknamed “Boots” whose column is/was carried by NewsMax, IIRC. Also some creep named Herndon and the Sampley and Kiley bastards.

And maybe it has info on it that is none of our friggin’ business. The only relevant issue is the location of the birth — and that has been established by clear and convincing evidence to most reasonably intelligent people.

Actually, yes it is. I had a friend whiter than me, and he was half black. Had many black facial features, but light skinned with freckles and dark blond hair.

…it’s kind of ironic that for me as a big bad conservative, I could care less…and I could care less what it says on his birth certificate, but for the BHO kool aid drinkers, it would be a monumental identity crisis if it said he was white.

I think our next move in light of this new evidence should be to prove that the admission of Hawaii as the 50th state was performed incorrectly and therefore invalid. HAWAII IS NOT PART OF THE U.S. Therefore even if you were born there you are NOT a U.S. citizen and are not eligible to be POTUS.

can you imagine if it said he was Caucasian or white? Think about how they talk about race and then how it would change.

I’m not a geneticist, but wouldn’t it be possible for a person to be born to a white mother and black father and have white skin?

I dont know about Hawaii, but in Ohio in 1957 you only had three choices for “race”; white, negro or other on birth certificates. And I can pretty much guarantee there would have been a huge problem with that birth if it had occurred in some other state than Hawaii or maybe California. There were still big issues with segregation and separate black/white hospitals in most of the country at that time.

The McCain Birth in Panama was discussed in a senate hearing. It was OK because he was born in a US Navy Hospital on the base in a US Navy base in a US province, to US citizens. On BO I only questioned did he have duel Indonesian citizenship? When he traveled to Pakistan in 1981 what kind of passport did he have? Was there a senate hearing on that? NOT.

Enjoyed this speculation, but:
The mother’s choice of race (to match her own) would not be binding on the child. He could explain that he chose to self-identity as black, and his choice is the only one that matters.
Might the birth certificate have had an “other” option?

There should not be a race question on the birth certificate in any case, in my view.

Many black babies appear white at birth because the melanin takes time to appear. However, race is a curious issue and wouldn’t be based on “appearance”, but on what the parents said.

In any case, there is only one race: human.

I’m only discussing this because I think Obama himself would regard it as politically “emabarrasing.” He did after all wrote two books about his “black identity.” He is what is he — makes no difference to me in the the slightest. I’m only talking about Obama’s concern over his political persona, in which he has self-identified as “black.” I could easily see how he (not me) would regard being listed as anything other than black as slightly embarrassing.

No, i believe, it’s considered unethical because the Media is being used to promulgate false stories (equivalent to spreading false rumors). Some time ago, in Canada, there actually was a law on the books making it a criminal offense to spread “false news.” (it was replaced with Canada’s anti-hate speech legislation).

That wasn’t a leftie story. The folks who spread that BS around are right wingers and friends of former NH senator Bob Smith and a former nutjob representative nicknamed “Boots” whose column is/was carried by NewsMax, IIRC. Also some creep named Herndon and the Sampley and Kiley bastards.

They’re all right wing, unfortunately.

The story is lunacy and was carried by the extremes on both sides. Just as the nirther stuff has been. Lunacy is one of the few things that is successfully bi-partisan at the extreme edges.

I was actually surprised it wasn’t. I thought it would be recorded for statistical purposes (e.g. percentage of babies of a certain race in the state). I guess the only source of data for race is the Census.

FYI, mine (California, 1943) lists “race” for father and mother, but does not list religion. Neither does it list “race” for myself.

I think a “race” box was common on most states’ birth certificates up through the ’50s and into the early ’60s, but little by little was phased out across the country starting in the ’60s as race became too sensitive of an issue and as more mixed-race babies became commonplace. I simply don’t know if 1961 Hawaii had a box for race at all.

I’m only discussing this because I think Obama himself would regard it as politically “emabarrasing.” He did after all wrote two books about his “black identity.” He is what is he — makes no difference to me in the the slightest. I’m only talking about Obama’s concern over his political persona, in which he has self-identified as “black.” I could easily see how he (not me) would regard being listed as anything other than black as slightly embarrassing.

Oh, honestly. Everyone knows he had a white mother and grandparents, so even that is a non-issue.

I have two birth certificates (the short form which is the standard, doesn’t give all that much info); then I had to get the long form (it was for passport/children’s citizenship reasons) — the long form lists both parents names, marital status, race, attending doctor’s name, hospital location, time of birth, etc., etc. doesn’t list religion, though.

I agree as well — it doesn’t matter to me — but it’s the only thing I can imagine which Obama himself might consider “embarrassing” enough that he doesn’t want anyone else to see it.

This simply shifts attention away from the real problem, a shift the nirthers are happy to accentuate. The real problem is simple: THE NIRTHERS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF THAT 0 IS NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.. Not a scrap. Their entire “case” is built on speculation and innuendo, with absolutely no underlying foundation of fact.

If the nirthers can’t produce evidentiary proof that 0 was born elsewhere, there’s nothing to talk about. There’s a whole pile of actual, reality-based evidence that 0 is a legitimate American citizen - far more evidence than any other citizen would ever be asked to produce, no matter what the reason - and none at all that he was born elsewhere. From the law’s presumption of innocence through the logical fallacy of a demand for a negative proof all the way to a gaping hole where evidence ought to be, there simply isn’t any reason whatsoever to believe this unless you have completely lost your grip on reality and rationality.

And the potential downside of being tarred with this brush are enormous. Over the next two weeks, Congress will be trying to ram a colossal, deeply flawed health care bill through the House; an equally bad cap & trade bill is in the pipeline; serious questions about 0’s rush to pre-judgment in the Gates/Crowley case are beginning to seriously undermine his public support. And many on the Right seem determined to hand their opposition the invaluable tool of allowing them to point their fingers back at our objections, demands and counterproposals and say, “Well, what else would you expect from a bunch of kooks?”

The nirthers crave the spotlight, and the louder and more outrageous their behavior becomes, the more the media is willing to shine it on them. And given the media’s proven biases, it isn’t much of a walk from there to hanging responsibility for such craziness on their favorite target - the Right.

But, how is that relevant to the issue at hand? The only issue is the site of the birth.

Yes, in Louisiana — home of the 1/64th rule — race would definitely be listed.

As for relevance: We’re discussing this as sort of the “wreckage” of the birther movement. Fully acknowledging that Obama was definitively born in Hawaii and has a Hawaii birth certificate, I’m speculating about the one remaining unanswered question: Why Obama hasn’t released it (granting that it exists).

actually, I just looked at his birth certificate and it shows his father as African and mother as Caucasian…wouldn’t it be impossible to identify him as Caucasian when his father is clearly listed as African?

isn’t the same info on both doc’s. I too have no doubt he was born here and believe that if it could be proven, Hillary would have found it out.

I would be curious to see both to see if there is something embarrassing. I would also like to see his college transcripts. Maybe with both documents we could prove he was dumb and white…MSM would be devastated.

Sadly, given what I’ve seen from these nirthers so far, I don’t expect the latest from the state of Hawaii to convince these bozos. They want to believe what they want to believe, reality and the facts be damned. All they’ve accomplished is to make themselves look and sound like fools. Pathetic.

Again, I state that it has info that is probably sensitive and private— like maybe listing another father. But, the central issue has been citizenship and that’s been established. The rest is irrelevant to the discussion.

actually, I just looked at his birth certificate and it shows his father as African and mother as Caucasian…wouldn’t it be impossible to identify him as Caucasian when his father is clearly listed as African?

Yes, in Louisiana — home of the 1/64th rule — race would definitely be listed.

As for relevance: We’re discussing this as sort of the “wreckage” of the birther movement. Fully acknowledging that Obama was definitively born in Hawaii and has a Hawaii birth certificate, I’m speculating about the one remaining unanswered question: Why Obama hasn’t released it (granting that it exists).

If his associations with the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and ACORN, his ignorance of history, his ludicrous domestic policies and his pants-falling-down foreign policies are not embarrassing him politically, I doubt that anything on his birth certificate would…

Mine doesn’t list race or religion (Oregon, early 60’s). In the mid 70’s, my family moved to Saudi Arabia and I distinctly remember my parents having to submit our Baptism records as proof of religion before we were issued visas.

If his associations with the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers and ACORN, his ignorance of history, his ludicrous domestic policies and his pants-falling-down foreign policies are not embarrassing him politically, I doubt that anything on his birth certificate would…

I dont know about Hawaii, but in Ohio in 1957 you only had three choices for “race”; white, negro or other on birth certificates. And I can pretty much guarantee there would have been a huge problem with that birth if it had occurred in some other state than Hawaii or maybe California. There were still big issues with segregation and separate black/white hospitals in most of the country at that time.

Until 1967, interracial marriages were illegal in 11 states. They’d have both been thrown in prison for miscegenation (and because mom was so young, dad might have been charged with statutory rape as well).

Forget the birth certificate. What I would really love to see are all his records from schools. Seriously, as an educator, I would learn a lot from those. All other candidates, presidents have released their transcripts. Not earthshaking, just curiosity on my part as well as wondering why he is going to so much trouble to conceal them. Seems like a lot of effort over something pretty normal.

Forget the birth certificate. What I would really love to see are all his records from schools. Seriously, as an educator, I would learn a lot from those. All other candidates, presidents have released their transcripts. Not earthshaking, just curiosity on my part as well as wondering why he is going to so much trouble to conceal them. Seems like a lot of effort over something pretty normal.

This is how it goes. It’s called “moving the goalpost” and isn’t the first time it has been done by birthers on this subject.

My point wasn’t that Obama was a secret Muslim. Merely that he may’ve been listed as Muslim at birth sending a bunch of splodey dopes apoplectic not to mention complicating his official dealings with other Muslims.

This DOES go a long way toward putting it to rest though because unless they changed the long form between Aug 1961 (O’s DOB) and June 62 it appears to be moot.

The passport files of all three major presidential candidates were breached by unauthorized searches by four employees, the State Department said yesterday, prompting apologies from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, outrage from the candidates and calls by lawmakers for further probes.

State had announced Thursday night that two contract employees had been fired and a third disciplined for separately examining Sen. Barack Obama’s passport file in January, February and March. No sooner had Rice gotten off the phone yesterday morning after …

All other candidates, presidents have released their transcripts. Not earthshaking, just curiosity on my part as well as wondering why he is going to so much trouble to conceal them. Seems like a lot of effort over something pretty normal.

If for the sake of argument, Obama was born outside the USA to a natural born American mother and a Kenyan father, isn’t he still a natural-born US citizen for the purpose of qualification for the office of President?

I think of children of diplomatic personnel, military dependents that might have been born outside the USA and maybe the base did not have obstetric facilities, the baby was born at a local hospital, US citizens overseas for business purposes, tourists going into early labor, etc.

If for the sake of argument, Obama was born outside the USA to a natural born American mother and a Kenyan father, isn’t he still a natural-born US citizen for the purpose of qualification for the office of President?

I think of children of diplomatic personnel, military dependents that might have been born outside the USA and maybe the base did not have obstetric facilities, the baby was born at a local hospital, US citizens overseas for business purposes, tourists going into early labor, etc.

Maybe I don’t understand the rules.

You nailed it.

But, the conspiracy claims the possibility of a few things to get around that:

In particular in 1961 the rule of citizenship for a baby born outside the united states to one U.S. citizen and one non- U.S. citizen were a little squirrely (the u.s. parent had to have lived on U.S. soil for a certain amount of total time before some birth date. The conspiracy claims President Obama’s mother did not meet these requirements (because she was only 18 when he was born and she had spent some amount of time out side the U.S.).

This theory is tossed out because in the 1980s U.S. law was changed to basically say “one U.S. parent, born anywhere = U.S. citizen”. This law was made retroactive for everyone born after (as i recall) 1950.

I have a lot of reasons to have disdain for Obama. He has been harder on a Cambridge police officer than he has been on Hugo Chavez or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. That’s typical behavior for him. If “racist” does not describe him, “elitist” does.

But no need to make up stuff about him, the real stuff is more than adequate.

I’ve wondered about that. A buddy of mine says he probably hasn’t released his transcripts because he got grades that were no better or even worst than GW Bush’s. Remember the Democrats spent a lot of time trying to portray W as an ignorant idiot, it wouldn’t do if the Obamessiah had worst grades than him. My buddy claims that is the real reason he won’t release his certificate, just to stay consistent.

I have no idea if that’s true, personally his grades don’t matter to me. It’s what Obama is doing to our country that makes me dislike him so much. And how he misrepresented himself to get elected.

Even if, even if it could be proved that he was born outside the US, would it matter?

You’re damn right—it wouldn’t.

I’m not sure about that. I’m convinced he was born in the US, but if he wasn’t it’s a very big, damning lie. Big enough that it should matter to any law abiding citizen. He basically would have commited fraud to get himself elected. If that lie doesn’t matter, then Nixon lying about the Watergate cover up shouldn’t matter.

But since he was born in Hawaii, it’s not something I’m worried about.

This is all conjecture and it means nothing. Just more fodder for the morons.

His middle name is Hussein for cripes sake. A point some bloggers just looove to mention constantly. As if racial/religious diversity is some kind of sin in this country. At any rate, why in the world would he want to hide anything else if he didn’t hide that? And what’s it anybody’s business anyway? There is only one relevant piece of info on that birth certificate. What state was he born in.

I mentioned something yesterday about dirty Republican politics and was dinged down 17 times. This kind of stuff is a prime example of such a thing. Create trouble where no trouble exists.

And I’m quite sure that Chiyome Fukino has seen and verified Obama’s original birth certificate. She’s not lying.

But this does bring up a question that has still not been resolved. The birthers ask it as a rhetorical question, but let’s ask it for real:

Why hasn’t Obama authorized that a photograph or a verified copy of his original birth certificate be released to the public?

Now, the birthers ask this question simply to provide the “obvious” answer: Because it doesn’t exist!

Which of course is just a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up.

However, the anti-birthers just as often give their answer: He won’t release it because by withholding it he’s cleverly allowing the birther movement to discredit itself and as a result the far right wing looks like a bunch of crazies.

But there’s no evidence for this assertion either. I don’t think Obama needs to play juvenile “Gotcha!” games to discredit the far right. He’s already been elected, and as far as the Democrats are concerned, the far right are already completely irrelevant.

So I think that there must be some other reason.

It not that it doesn’t exist.
It’s not that Obama is simply trying to “drive his opponents crazy” with frustration.

My only conclusion is: There’s something else on that certificate which would be embarrassing to him, and which he doesn’t want the country to see. But what?

We already know that he has an Islamic name. That wouldn’t be an embarrassment — it’s already a known fact.

We already know that his mother was still a minor. Not embarrassing.

So what else is left? I can only see two possibilities:

a. That it lists his mother as being single, whereas Obama has always claimed she and his father were married at the time.

OR

b. It lists his “race” as being something other than “negro” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time).

I think option “a” is very unlikely because in Obama’s view, being the child of a single mother wouldn’t be something to hide — it would be something to brag about. More evidence that he lifted himself up out of poverty and deprivation to the White House.

Therefore, I have a strong suspicion that the answer is “b”: that he is listed as being “caucasian” or “white” (or whatever terminology they used in Hawaii at the time). Which would completely undermine his entire constructed “life story” about which he wrote two books and on which he has based his entire political career.

Thoughts?

Refer to the link in post 271. The Hawaii long form doesn’t list the race of the child, only that of the parents.

If that lie doesn’t matter, then Nixon lying about the Watergate cover up shouldn’t matter.

It strikes me that in THIS day and age, the Watergate cover up would probably get a whole lot less traction than it did back then…which is itself a commentary on the slow degradation of the idea of presidential integrity.

I have absolute proof of the existence of god on a box in my garage. No, of course you can’t see it. You’ll just have to take my word for it.

This statement DOES prove that the document is not “Lost” and that the only alternative, the .jpg that the Daily Kos was passing around, or the printout of that .jpg that the Annenberg Center wouldn’t let anyone else examine (Two CLEARLY unimpeachable sources, right?) is irrelevant.

(Anyone remember the forensic image analysis that proved the Kos .jpg was edited?)

Neither side of the debate has verifiable proof. Which makes the entire argument a matter of faith.

Anyone who has declared the issue to be settled one way or the other is operating on faith. Either faith in the Daily Kos (heaven forbid) that he was, or faith that the document will remain hidden forever because they are “right”.

I’m withholding judgment either way. He’s Schrodinger’s baby. The only problem is, you can open the box and find that democracy is dead now, or wait until 2012 to find out it’s dead.

But I do have to wonder if there’s a reason the President is keeping all his records hidden (Much like Kerry’s service record). Perhaps that the Nirthers’ are expending all this effort on something easily kept from them so that they are distracted from finding out something that really will make a difference?

Another form of Useful Idiots, perhaps. Keep the Right running in circles. Throw a little gas on the fire any time you need a distraction. Get a reporter who is in your pocket a chance to read a scripted question and get a scripted non-response to get them all fired up and distracted again.

I have no doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii, but that is not the end of the issue. His “Real” Birth Certiciate would tell if he was adopted by his other’s Indonesian husband, Lolo Soetoro. Birth Certificates are amended when a child is adopted in an effort to keep the child from knowing they are adopted.

If he was adopted he would have becone an Indonesian citizen, or at the very least have duel citizenship. This is why Obama will not release the “Vault Copy.”

““I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai’i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii “

Wait, it one place it says “Hawaii” and in another it says “Hawai’i.” I’d look into that discrepancy if I were you. It looks very very suspicious.
And “Barrack”? Since when did it have two “r’s”?

I think I’d better close with “I’m just kidding” or else you might actually believe me.

So, as you see, I never denied his citizenship. Therefore I am not a Nirther. And therefore I resent you treating me like one. (Especially the consistent down dings, and their echoes. I mean, really, what was wrong about 318 where I compared Nirthers to Creationists. I thought you’d appreciate that).