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hedwards: One of the reasons I'm leaving is that I'm having an increasingly hard time remembering that I'm not actually Chinese.

crazy_dave: :)

I've got a couple of friends who are Americans but have lived and worked in China for long periods of time. They both had very complex views on China, both positives and negatives. One studies business law and the other is in DC doing human rights law. I have no personal experience beyond several of my friends being from there or living there.

That's definitely correct. Everything in China is very complex, I appreciate not being allowed to talk politics here because I really and truly don't understand enough to want to. I tend to think that foreigners abroad, in any country, shouldn't be commenting too much about the local politics as it's generally a lot more complicated than it appears.

That being said, in an odd way I actually have more freedom here than I do back home. I just mostly have to keep my nose out of party affairs and keep registered, other than they, they tend to at least pretend not to constantly be monitoring me like the government does back home.

Plus, as a foreigner, it's expected that I'll do some odd stuff, just as long as I'm generally respectful of local customs, I don't get judged extra if I do something that's normally odd. And I'm not the only westerner that feels that either.

hedwards: That's definitely correct. Everything in China is very complex, I appreciate not being allowed to talk politics here because I really and truly don't understand enough to want to. I tend to think that foreigners abroad, in any country, shouldn't be commenting too much about the local politics as it's generally a lot more complicated than it appears.

I was constantly asked for my opinion on the recent Georgian elections while in Georgia and my response was always "I know nothing."

hedwards: That being said, in an odd way I actually have more freedom here than I do back home. I just mostly have to keep my nose out of party affairs and keep registered, other than they, they tend to at least pretend not to constantly be monitoring me like the government does back home.

The difference is that they don't bother lying about it like the US government does. The Chinese never had any concept of privacy previously, so they didn't lose any. But in the US we did have privacy and the government is constantly looking for ways around that without people knowing about it.

hedwards: The difference is that they don't bother lying about it like the US government does. The Chinese never had any concept of privacy previously, so they didn't lose any. But in the US we did have privacy and the government is constantly looking for ways around that without people knowing about it.

In China : the Big Brother is visible and you live in the reality . In the US : the Big Brother in invisible and you live in a fake reality .

hedwards: The difference is that they don't bother lying about it like the US government does. The Chinese never had any concept of privacy previously, so they didn't lose any. But in the US we did have privacy and the government is constantly looking for ways around that without people knowing about it.

ne_zavarj: In China : the Big Brother is visible and you live in the reality . In the US : the Big Brother in invisible and you live in a fake reality .

Mostly yeah, but around here, the people keep a pretty close eye on everybody.

stoicsentry: I love the ad hominem, "this is a billion-dollar industry."

When in doubt, "rabble, rabble, there's money involved so it must be evil!"

The best part about that is, if it is a billion dollar industry (raked in around 7 billion last year alone), then that must mean there are at least millions of gamers in the US, yet there are not millions of murdering, game-addicted psychopaths running around right now. Their own stats refute their ridiculous claims about video games causing violence.

stoicsentry: I love the ad hominem, "this is a billion-dollar industry."

When in doubt, "rabble, rabble, there's money involved so it must be evil!"

cogadh: The best part about that is, if it is a billion dollar industry (raked in around 7 billion last year alone), then that must mean there are at least millions of gamers in the US, yet there are not millions of murdering, game-addicted psychopaths running around right now. Their own stats refute their ridiculous claims about video games causing violence.

7 Billion? The last chart I saw showed PC game sales in the 15 to 20 billion range -- and that's just PC sales. Console sales I believe were closer to 25 billion. That's not a small industry by any means if the numbers I saw were accurate.

cogadh: The best part about that is, if it is a billion dollar industry (raked in around 7 billion last year alone), then that must mean there are at least millions of gamers in the US, yet there are not millions of murdering, game-addicted psychopaths running around right now. Their own stats refute their ridiculous claims about video games causing violence.

Qwertyman: 7 Billion? The last chart I saw showed PC game sales in the 15 to 20 billion range -- and that's just PC sales. Console sales I believe were closer to 25 billion. That's not a small industry by any means if the numbers I saw were accurate.

Qwertyman: 7 Billion? The last chart I saw showed PC game sales in the 15 to 20 billion range -- and that's just PC sales. Console sales I believe were closer to 25 billion. That's not a small industry by any means if the numbers I saw were accurate.

LiquidOxygen80: Personally, I think it's sad that the government HAS to adapt for parental ambivalence. When I was at a young age, frequently, my father wouldn't let me play a game until he'd played it first and okayed it. As I grew older, he allowed and exposed me to more and more, AS IT SHOULD BE. I guess it's more of a commentary about how uninvolved American parents are becoming, or maybe their failure to understand what the game ratings actually mean.

Frankly, this could all be solved by responsible parents, parenting responsibly.

cogadh: My kid is 15 and I still do this. At this point there are very few games that he wants that I won't let him play, but he gets his hands on nothing until I at least have tried a demo. It's simply common sense parenting, IMO.

It's funny that you mention common sense, because as I age, I'm increasingly finding that "common sense" is becoming more and more uncommon.

Just as an example, I know a fairly conservative couple that lets their kids get away with pretty much anything and they're little terrors, who nobody in particular looks forward to a visit from.

By contrast, I work with a juggalo, who is one of the strictest parents I've ever met. He has a teenage daughter who he's fiercely protective of, and a young son who he filters EVERYTHING from TV, to videogames, music, etc. Hell, he doesn't even play his own games in front of him, he rather waits until it's bedtime, then plays what he wants/listens to what he wants.

It's kind of odd how much the spectrum seems to shift these days, and the people you'd expect to be "bad parents" aren't, while the ones you'd expect to be strict, aren't.

LiquidOxygen80: It's funny that you mention common sense, because as I age, I'm increasingly finding that "common sense" is becoming more and more uncommon.

Just as an example, I know a fairly conservative couple that lets their kids get away with pretty much anything and they're little terrors, who nobody in particular looks forward to a visit from.

You know my brother and his kids!? Kidding, I love my family... no seriously, his kids are awful.

LiquidOxygen80: By contrast, I work with a juggalo, who is one of the strictest parents I've ever met. He has a teenage daughter who he's fiercely protective of, and a young son who he filters EVERYTHING from TV, to videogames, music, etc. Hell, he doesn't even play his own games in front of him, he rather waits until it's bedtime, then plays what he wants/listens to what he wants.

It's kind of odd how much the spectrum seems to shift these days, and the people you'd expect to be "bad parents" aren't, while the ones you'd expect to be strict, aren't.

It sounds trite, but you really can't judge a book by its cover. Take my wife, she has multiple tattoos and piercings and she occasionally gets nasty looks from the "squares" because of her appearance, but if they bothered to look past appearances, they'd find she is a well-respected business analyst at her company who works her ass off yet still finds time to do homey things like canning preserves and knitting, plus is the best mother in the world (okay, I am a little biased). Unfortunately, far too many people, especially in politics, never bother to even try to look past the surface.

As someone familiar with local politics of San Francisco (I live next door), Lee is just making a grandstanding statement to what he believes is his safe base, the relatively conservative business-minded power brokers of SF Chinatown, with just enough of a hint of SF style progressive-ism.

Long story short, California has the worst gerry-mandering setup in the entire US, and most politicians have voting districts that align along major political blocs. Thus this kind of grandstanding, and in some cases absolutism is commonplace.

This is not a mindless politician -- he's penned a number of sensible laws in the last few years -- but in this age you have to get more than a few soundbites, and sometimes sane public debate is a victim.