RON'S REAL EXPERIENCE

Ketch22 [ PM ]
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Ketch22 [ PM ]
Re: Ron's reality
February 05, 2012 12:10PM Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 159
I did full details, etc from 1956 until now! (not so much now, for a 68 I have other things I like to do in addition to details)
One does that when they started doing bodywork, build customs, auto painting, etc as a young man.
Also worked in High School for not only some bodyshops, but Great Lakes Boat Company, where I did fiberglas repair and detailed trade-in's

While living in Central Illinois and working for a major consumer product company, started racing SCCA, and set up a private side business of detailing, paint touch up, etc to aid in paying for the racing-did aprox 3 to 5 cars a week for 5 years.=1,000 cars easily.

When I lived in the KC area, had a small, side business of detailing/touch body work. Did this to support my new hobby of campaigning in the AMA mx series, where I carried a national number, plus was still building my personal cars. This was an "on and off" sort of busines of detailing, not a regular, but would put the number of vehicles, boats, etc in a period of 1972 to 1986 at no less than 250 a year=3,500 vehicles/boats.

Number of car details in the my life time, done personally by me, since 1956? Would have to guess, but in the upper thousands.

Number of vehicles I supervised as an owner or manager, detailed, would be in the upper 10's of thousands of vehicles.

At Automotive International there is a subsidary business to the ValuGard Products, it is ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's. I was the Vice President of Operations of that unit and was well known for jumping in and getting my hands dirty, teaching, mentoring, all that a good manager does.

Being that while at Automotive International I had my own facility for testing and training, would often take friends and their vehicles to it on a weekend and we would detail their personal vehicle, for free, just good to keep one's hand's on skills up to snuff and I enjoyed it as well.

When at Finish Kare, two of my personal clients were Ford and Chrysler's new vehicle prep centers, three Ford, one Chrysler, plus all the imports port processors. FK was a main chemical supplier to these operations.
While the new car prep centers main focus was new car prep, they also did the reconditioning of thousands of used vehicles which came off lease, buybacks, etc.
I would often work hands on, side by side with their personel to resolve concerns of some vehicles, develope new products to meet special needs,
etc.
How many vehicles did I personally "touch/work on"?
That is very difficult to put a number to, however can say that the Ford facility in Mira Loma ran two shifts a day, 5 days a week on average and each shift put out in excess of 350 vehicles per shift+700 vehicles a day+3,500 per week.
Those numbers do not include work I personally performed at Mazda's, Nissan's, Volvo's, Jaquar's, Toyota's, Honda's,Hyundai's, and other's port processors or their dealerships where they would send me in to resolve issues that the dealer's prep people may have been experiencing.

As far as boats? FK has a marine line, a frp line as well, and the frp line was used in manufacturing plants for fiberglas boats such as SeaRay, Egg Harbor, Four Winns, Cobalt, Ranger, and many others. This often required my going to the plants to train employees on tooling mold prep, application of release products, correction of mold marks in the parts, etc. Did this in addition to my automotive product duties.
FK's marine line is Big White, which I did have responsibility for, and my main clients were West Marine and it's stores, USBoat and their stores.
As a result, would often be taken into the field by store personel to work with boat detailers to resolve concerns they may be having.
In short, I have done every kind and size of boat from 10 foot aluminum john boats to 110 ft Vikings.

How do I put a number of vehicles. boats, motorcycles, big rigs, etc that is any where accurate on paper, after close to 56 years of detailing?
Would have guess I have detailed or as we pro's refer to it "touched" in excess of 100,000 vehicles, personally.
Does that answer your questions, Bill?

My Response:
1. I did full details, etc from 1956 until now! (not so much now, for a 68 I have other things I like to do in addition to details)One does that when they started doing bodywork, build customs, auto painting, etc as a young man.
Also's worked in High School for not only some bodyshops, but Great Lakes Boat Company, where I did fiberglas repair and detailed trade-in
,
First, he claims he has done full details form 1956 to now, but then says not that much now. What does doing bodywork, build customs, and auto painting have to do with detailing? Also he mentions doing fiberglass repair along with cleaning up boats.

2. When I lived in the KC area, had a small, side business of detailing/touch body work. Did this to support my new hobby of campaigning in the AMA mx series, where I carried a national number, plus was still building my personal cars. This was an "on and off" sort of busines of detailing, not a regular, but would put the number of vehicles, boats, etc in a period of 1972 to 1986 at no less than 250 a year=3,500 vehicles/boats.

Really have no clue what he means here,but from what I can see he was a driver doing some on and off business in detailing.

3.At Automotive International there is a subsidary business to the ValuGard Products, it is ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's. I was the Vice President of Operations of that unit and was well known for jumping in and getting my hands dirty, teaching, mentoring, all that a good manager does.

Being that while at Automotive International I had my own facility for testing and training, would often take friends and their vehicles to it on a weekend and we would detail their personal vehicle, for free, just good to keep one's hand's on skills up to snuff and I enjoyed it as well.

So what is this about? He ran a shop that cleaned up new cars, and did reconditioning(CORRECTION) on used ones.

4.When at Finish Kare, two of my personal clients were Ford and Chrysler's new vehicle prep centers, three Ford, one Chrysler, plus all the imports port processors. FK was a main chemical supplier to these operations.
While the new car prep centers main focus was new car prep, they also did the reconditioning of thousands of used vehicles which came off lease, buybacks, etc.
I would often work hands on, side by side with their personel to resolve concerns of some vehicles, develope new products to meet special needs,
etc.
How many vehicles did I personally "touch/work on"?
That is very difficult to put a number to, however can say that the Ford facility in Mira Loma ran two shifts a day, 5 days a week on average and each shift put out in excess of 350 vehicles per shift+700 vehicles a day+3,500 per week.
Those numbers do not include work I personally performed at Mazda's, Nissan's, Volvo's, Jaquar's, Toyota's, Honda's,Hyundai's, and other's port processors or their dealerships where they would send me in to resolve issues that the dealer's prep people may have been experiencing.

Once again, he sold correction supplies to dealerships in the 80's. Big deal. Clearly, he had no products or solutions to swirl marks/

5.How many vehicles did I personally "touch/work on"?
That is very difficult to put a number to, however can say that the Ford facility in Mira Loma ran two shifts a day, 5 days a week on average and each shift put out in excess of 350 vehicles per shift+700 vehicles a day+3,500 per week.
Those numbers do not include work I personally performed at Mazda's, Nissan's, Volvo's, Jaquar's, Toyota's, Honda's,Hyundai's, and other's port processors or their dealerships where they would send me in to resolve issues that the dealer's prep people may have been experiencing.

Well, this shows nothing. He was responsible for resolving problems with the products his company sold. It seems he had alot of problems considering what he said here.

READING THIS POST SHOWS ME THAT RON'S ONLY EXPERIENCE IS WITH WAXES AND POLYSEALANTS.
AS A RESULT,HE IS EXPERINCED IN CORRECTION TECHNIQUES TO REMOVE SWIRL MARKS. CAN YOU NOW CAN SEE THAT IS HIS ONLY EXPERIENCE CENTERS AROUND THAT ONLY.

IF YOU WANT TO USE WAX AND POLY SEALANTS THAN RON IS YOUR MAN. HE HAS TONS OF EXPERIENCE
COVERING UP SWIRL MARKS AND FLAWS CAUSED BY THEM. THAT IS WHY HE DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT I AM SAYING ON HOW TO PREVENT THEM.

I AM JUST A DETAILER EXPLAINING WHAT I HAVE LEARNED. IF AT-5 DID NOT WORK THEN I WOULD KICK IT TO THE CURB IN A HEART BEAT. I DO FULL DETAILS TO THIS DAY, AND NOT PAID BY ANYONE TO PUSH OUT DATED PRODUCTS AND METHODS FOR A PAYCHECK, OR LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO DO.

Let's allow, other visitors to the forum to read your "responses" to a valid, documented background and the work experiences of mine and see what those who have known me personally, worked with me, purchased products,tested some of my formulations for all areas of products for detailing, requested and received technical input on products and processes, over the past decades may have to respond to your latest "rant".
For those who can find me on Facebook or have access to the forum that banned BufferBill from it, Autopia, there are quite a few photos of me and some vehicles I built, raced, etc starting in 1960.
Those photos are in my Gallery section.
Included are a couple of photos of the early motorcycle I and a buddy restored a year or so ago, some of my race cars, some of my drivers, and my latest, the mint 1977 T-Bird with at present, less than 14,000 miles, some photos of my little work shop are there, etc.
There are photo's of "me", over the years, so I don't hide behind an internet phoney name, it's me, plain and simple.
No sense in having a shop and thousands of dollars in tools if one doesn't know how to use them, and the photo's are outdated, as a larger 220V 2 cyl compressor has been added, a new stick welder to go with the mig and gas, on and on.
I do know what I am doing, since retiring, been going back and doing the metal, paint, etc work I started in learning in the 50's.
Have Chevy van setting out back that I am finishing up the rust repair on and then a total repaint, doing a set of mag's that were never meant to be polished up, but since I know how, they will end up a mirror with painted centers, have a 26 foot Crownline boat with dock damage to the side gel coat to repair and polish up as soon as the owner takes it out of the water, (Finish Kare was big in the FRP industry, plus I learned about doing such repairs while in high school, working for the local boat dealer, so no biggy for me)
I don't just sit around in retirement, I enjoy using my decades of knowledge to make bad things good, and to mentor younger people who are just coming into the detailing world and wish to learn the "whole thing", not just what is a brand name product, etc.
So, Buffer Bill, before you spout off about what I did, what I do or what I can do, professionally, suggest you do a bit more research.
Grumpy

I was never banned from the Autopia Forum, but you were. I was asked twice to be a guest on that forum.
I would appreciate you stop repeating this as fact. It is just not true.

I never questioned anything but your detail experience . I am not hiding behind any phoney internet name.
I have shown many videos as to my experience and what I do. I gave my contact name at GEM to show my experience
with AT-5. It seems you ignore anything I offer as proof.

Everything you speak about here has NOTHING to do with detailing. Sorry, I find no use for welding equipment when I detail. Granted, you are a good body and paint person, but that does mean you are able to speak or comment on what
I say about swirl marks and what cause them.

I would never debate with you about what is a correct method in the painting and bodywork field.Why? Because I do not have any experience. Although, you go out of your way to discredit everything I say without any knowledge. David has done much the same. Just because everybody does it one way does not mean there is not a better way.

Let me show everyone here what passes for a logical debate with you:

Grumpy2 [ PM ]
Re: Bill
December 16, 2011 10:10PM Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 641
After reading and reading and reading, and ahhh, nevermind.
You bring up excellent points, which of course will never be addressed.
This thing with Bill and his AT5 or whatever, reminds me of years ago when I was in my office, where a there were a number of trains that went by each day, on their way to their terminal.
One day, there was a train wreck.
It was interesting, and no one was hurt, but seen it once, don't care to see it happen again.
Sort of how I view this guy.
One big train wreck, with a broken record of the same, same, same, same,

COMMENTING ON WITTY STORIES IS NOT MY STRONG SUIT MAYBE BECAUSE I HAVE PROBLEMS INTERACTING WITH PEOPLE

Bill, you seem to want to ignore reality. Ron Ketcham is one of the most knowledgeable, experienced and well respected people in the detail industry. You reflect your blatant ignorance with your lengthly dissertations on why he is not knowledgeable.

My goodness he has more experience and knowledge than you will ever hope to attain.

I have a very simple question.
Why would one who does not work with or have experience/knowledge and training in the ever changing automotive paint finishes, no having any professonal and industry training courses, not being able to refinish, be able to diagnois and if required, do the required refinishing, be one which anyone would chose to take advice from?
Anyone can go out and "promote", but what are their real creditionals?
Do they know the proper steps to diagnois, to be able to make the correct steps to make things correct and last?
Are they able to do these things, do they have some sort of documented and accepted background in doing so?
Do they understand are able to explain the chemical differences between and old lacquer finish, a next progression of moves to urethanes, both one step and two step OEM applications?
Do they understand and are capable of working with the newer low VOC base and clear coat finishes?
Are they capable of recognizing the difference of a true water spot from an acid etch concern with a finish, do they understand from education on the concern regarding the proisty of a modern paint finish?
How that many of these issues are "enviormentaly" generated and just "polishing" does nothing to remove those damaging acids, or do they just "clay" it to remove the "touch generated" deposits?
It just goes on and on, by that,one's, big ego, with personal agenda driven issues ,mouthing off about some "one" product that will cure all the ails of "any" vehicles finish.
Grumpy

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a very simple question.
> Why would one who does not work with or have
> experience/knowledge and training in the ever
> changing automotive paint finishes, no having any
> professonal and industry training courses, not
> being able to refinish, be able to diagnois and if
> required, do the required refinishing, be one
> which anyone would chose to take advice from?
> Anyone can go out and "promote", but what are
> their real creditionals?
> Do they know the proper steps to diagnois, to be
> able to make the correct steps to make things
> correct and last?
> Are they able to do these things, do they have
> some sort of documented and accepted background in
> doing so?
> Do they understand are able to explain the
> chemical differences between and old lacquer
> finish, a next progression of moves to urethanes,
> both one step and two step OEM applications?
> Do they understand and are capable of working with
> the newer low VOC base and clear coat finishes?
> Are they capable of recognizing the difference of
> a true water spot from an acid etch concern with a
> finish, do they understand from education on the
> concern regarding the proisty of a modern paint
> finish?
> How that many of these issues are "enviormentaly"
> generated and just "polishing" does nothing to
> remove those damaging acids, or do they just
> "clay" it to remove the "touch generated"
> deposits?
> It just goes on and on, by that,one's, big ego,
> with personal agenda driven issues ,mouthing off
> about some "one" product that will cure all the
> ails of "any" vehicles finish.
> Grumpy

Ron

You are the one with the ego problem, and really I have ZERO idea what your point is. Once again, your post is going over your experience which you keep repeating over and over.I know nothing about body work ,or painting cars just like you no nothing about AT-5.WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA HERE?

I have used this product since 1989,and applied to aircraft , boats , cars, and trucks since them. I believe that is just more than mouthing off as you call it. I know what this product will do, and not do . It really seems you have a agenda to stick your nose into something with zero facts, but your own opinion.

buda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill, you seem to want to ignore reality. Ron
> Ketcham is one of the most knowledgeable,
> experienced and well respected people in the
> detail industry. You reflect your blatant
> ignorance with your lengthly dissertations on why
> he is not knowledgeable.
>
> My goodness he has more experience and knowledge
> than you will ever hope to attain.
>
> Regards

Bud
Why do I waste my time answering your stupid comments that never end?

I was trying to show that knowledge about painting a car,or bodywork has nothing to do with knowing how to protect the paint. Knowing how to do correction properly has nothing to do with protecting the paint. Also, the waxes and sealants used and sold by Ron offered little protection at best.

Given what I said here, please explain what Ron knows about protecting paint? Otherwise, shut up .

buda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ketch
>
> Kudos for your most logical series of questions.
>
> Further you give our too much credit , it is not
> EGO that indicates a large degree of knowledge but
> I believe in this case is simply "NOT KNOWING WHAT
> HE DOESN'T KNOW"
>
> Regards

Bud

What logical questions were asked? Basically, it was a rambling statement with no direction followed with his delusional ranting about my agenda to destroy the detailing business.

When you make a statement like this:

I believe in this case is simply "NOT KNOWING WHAT
> HE DOESN'T KNOW"

SINCE YOU NO NOTHING ABOUT PROTECTING PAINT, OR USED AT-5 WHAT DO YOU KNOW THAT I DO NOT?

Compared to you and your internet and work history----EVERYTHING!
Bud and I have been in the industry for decades, working with folks who knew nothing but wished to learn, to being hired to train newbie's and experienced staffs, all over this whole big world.
From the States, to Canada, to Mexico,Central and South America, from S.E. Asia to the Middle East, to Eastern and Western Europe, to Africa to Austrailia, both of us were and still are requested and "paid" to bring our years of "total" experience in the detailing industry to those who found they really needed what we could bring them.
Grumpy

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Compared to you and your internet and work
> history----EVERYTHING!
> Bud and I have been in the industry for decades,
> working with folks who knew nothing but wished to
> learn, to being hired to train newbie's and
> experienced staffs, all over this whole big
> world.
> From the States, to Canada, to Mexico,Central and
> South America, from S.E. Asia to the Middle East,
> to Eastern and Western Europe, to Africa to
> Austrailia, both of us were and still are
> requested and "paid" to bring our years of "total"
> experience in the detailing industry to those who
> found they really needed what we could bring

Ron

As I have said MANY times, but you cannot understand for some reason. Doing correction is the only thing you know when it comes to detailing, What do you actually know about protecting paint, or preventing swirl marks?

Nothing about protecting the paint?
You had better do some research on who I worked for and what products, such a paint sealant, AI provides to Chrysler USA, Canada and Mexico, Saturn until GM shut them down, Nissan Mexico, many other manufacturers around the world, such as Mazda, Hyundia, Kia, etc, on and on,
The products my old company makes are not just tested and touted by them, but in order for them to be "branded, marketed and warrantied by these vehicle manufacturers", they must past all testing by the vehicle manufacturer's own testing facilities, labs, chemists, engineers, etc.
Can AT5 pass that muster?
Is or has it ever been produced for and marketed by any OEM manufacturer of automotive vehicles in the world?
These manufacturers are always on the look out for new and better products, so why not AT5?
Maybe, it has been submitted, but at this point, doesn't look like it can cut it.
So, I have "no experience" in protecting paint?
I was lead man on these items for the vehicle manufacturers, I worked with their chemists, their engineers, their legal staff, testing facilities.
Since you feel I am no qualified to know anything about "paint protection products", where are your creditionals?

I was asked to come to Houston Tx in 2005 for AT-5 application on two Continental Airlines 737-800 jets for testing.
Gem Industries recommended me to Jim Armstrong the owner of Logti -Clean for advise. My process which I still
use today saved 1% on fuel costs for these jets given a one year time frame measured by data from a year earlier.

I trained 30 people in several days who had no experience in detailing to use my system. Each jet had to be done in 18 hours.

Besides this I have done several hundred boat details using this product. I have heard many times how easy the deck was to clean from fish guts and blood. Also, how boats stayed cleaner(6 months) longer in salt water compared to wax.

As far cars, trucks and vans goes that goes into the 1,000's of actual details I have done myself.When customers call me back and rave about this product, I listen. Why? Because they tell me how bugs just come off so easy.This product was my best advertising, and my customers were my best source for new clients.

Your quote:

Can AT5 pass that muster?
Is or has it ever been produced for and marketed by any OEM manufacturer of automotive vehicles in the world?
These manufacturers are always on the look out for new and better products, so why not AT5?
Maybe, it has been submitted, but at this point, doesn't look like it can cut it.

Hopefully, this should show what I do know about paint protection.Just because your friend, Al, gave you some test results of a Chrysler sealant that you cannot produce any results for means little IMO for your knowledge of paint protection.

Enough with your endless chatter about your experience. You are not a chemist, and have ZERO knowledge about what true paint protection is. If you were a real pro than you would admit that, but you and Bud just continue to argue
with me based on YOUR opinion of what you think is true.

I am so "disappointed" in your lack of response to my rely to your attack on me.
I provided the very things of which anyone may access by using various website searches regarding my credentials, and allow them to make their own decisions of "who I am", "what I have done', "what my professional background may be", and it is not some "video's of You tube" or such.
The creditionals of my work, my experience, where I have done such, etc are way beyond such as some "personally done video's on an internet mass media site.
If you have doubts about this of which I say, bring it back, with "valid and substancated" rebuttal.
Not just regarding me, but Bud and his work.
Both of us have been doing the work, utilizing our decades of expereinces, all around the world for those decades, and were "paid" for that experience.
Bud and I have had our "differences" regarding many things, most of which you are incapable of understanding, due to your lack of "professional work and such".
However, we do respect each others time, work and everyday doing the job to bring a professional approach to the detailing industry.
We may "tout" some products, we may share our "world wide" experiences with the forum, but we never, ever, continue to be such as you, who just keeps on keeping on about "one product-one way".
Know why Buffer Bill?
Because we know that this industry changes all the times, and we know that to be of help and assitance to the industry, we must do as such.
New paint systems, new and better products, developed by chemical blenders, and in all cases they require that some must move on.
To work to provide the new ways, the new chemical's, and educate those on the "new paint" systems( not just the paint, but the trim, interior fabrics, etc) that are out there every few years or less.
Hey, it's not all "lacquers", "melamine clears", "iso based clears", urethane 1K or 2K enamels, and more today, Things change, just stop being in the past, move on, get into 2012, and be ready for 2014 and some new "paint technology" that is coming and you will have to learn, finally, to deal with.
Grumpyy

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am so "disappointed" in your lack of response to
> my rely to your attack on me.
> I provided the very things of which anyone may
> access by using various website searches regarding
> my credentials, and allow them to make their own
> decisions of "who I am", "what I have done', "what
> my professional background may be", and it is not
> some "video's of You tube" or such.
> The creditionals of my work, my experience, where
> I have done such, etc are way beyond such as some
> "personally done video's on an internet mass media
> site.
> If you have doubts about this of which I say,
> bring it back, with "valid and substancated"
> rebuttal.
> Not just regarding me, but Bud and his work.
> Both of us have been doing the work, utilizing our
> decades of expereinces, all around the world for
> those decades, and were "paid" for that
> experience.
> Bud and I have had our "differences" regarding
> many things, most of which you are incapable of
> understanding, due to your lack of "professional
> work and such".
> However, we do respect each others time, work and
> everyday doing the job to bring a professional
> approach to the detailing industry.
> We may "tout" some products, we may share our
> "world wide" experiences with the forum, but we
> never, ever, continue to be such as you, who just
> keeps on keeping on about "one product-one way".
> Know why Buffer Bill?
> Because we know that this industry changes all the
> times, and we know that to be of help and
> assitance to the industry, we must do as such.
> New paint systems, new and better products,
> developed by chemical blenders, and in all cases
> they require that some must move on.
> To work to provide the new ways, the new
> chemical's, and educate those on the "new paint"
> systems( not just the paint, but the trim,
> interior fabrics, etc) that are out there every
> few years or less.
> Hey, it's not all "lacquers", "melamine clears",
> "iso based clears", urethane 1K or 2K enamels, and
> more today, Things change, just stop being in the
> past, move on, get into 2012, and be ready for
> 2014 and some new "paint technology" that is
> coming and you will have to learn, finally, to
> deal with.
> Grumpyy

.
Ron

I have said what I said ,and you continue repeat OVER and OVER again the same worn out argument. You are the
one who lives in the past defending outdated products. You take this as an you personal attack, but is not

When there is a paint system that does not require polishing, and swirl marks are not a issue which will not happen soon, otherwise what is your solution to protecting paint. Of that is right, you do not have one.

Please Ron if I hear about your experience one more time I feel like I am going to throw up . Clearly, you and Bud need to move on instead of whining about what I am saying. It is not directed to you or Bud. Just ignore it . Instead,
you write posts like this that make little sense.

I don't know what is funnier or more ironic? Bill's "detailer" screen name or what he considers experience needed to deserve the right to use that title? What it should read is "Banned" Bill seeing that he was already banned once from here for being such an AT-5 troll. I've never seen a more pathetic person who aligns himself to the detailing industry.

Washing swirled up cars and applying an acrylic paint sealant to it doesn't make you a detailer.

Teaching newbies how to apply AT-5 to a plane doesn't make you a detailer or an instructor either.

I'm sorry, but there is ALOT more to detailing then this!

Swirls are not caused from wax. It's caused from improper washing and use of buffing machines. PERIOD.

According to your flawed logic, because all the cars in your videos have swirls, that must mean you are waxing them?

I would much rather offer service to my clients that is genuine rather then blowing smoke up their ass about how wonderfully protected their swirled up cars will be if you apply a miracle sealant to them.

You should be ashamed to even show your face on here, let alone disrespect Ron by questioning his experience and knowledge like a little 5 year old. If you had an ounce of respect and itellect you would issue a full apology and get a lobotomy.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what is funnier or more ironic?
> Bill's "detailer" screen name or what he considers
> experience needed to deserve the right to use that
> title? What it should read is "Banned" Bill
> seeing that he was already banned once from here
> for being such an AT-5 troll. I've never seen a
> more pathetic person who aligns himself to the
> detailing industry.
>
> Washing swirled up cars and applying an acrylic
> paint sealant to it doesn't make you a detailer.
>
> Teaching newbies how to apply AT-5 to a plane
> doesn't make you a detailer or an instructor
> either.
>
> I'm sorry, but there is ALOT more to detailing
> then this!
>
> Swirls are not caused from wax. It's caused from
> improper washing and use of buffing machines.
> PERIOD.
>
> According to your flawed logic, because all the
> cars in your videos have swirls, that must mean
> you are waxing them?
>
> I would much rather offer service to my clients
> that is genuine rather then blowing smoke up their
> ass about how wonderfully protected their swirled
> up cars will be if you apply a miracle sealant to
> them.
>
> You should be ashamed to even show your face on
> here, let alone disrespect Ron by questioning his
> experience and knowledge like a little 5 year old.
> If you had an ounce of respect and itellect you
> would issue a full apology and get a lobotomy.

David

Do we really need to go down this road again? By the way how many 737's have you detailed?How many boats
have you done?

Quote:

>
> I'm sorry, but there is ALOT more to detailing
> then this!
>
> Swirls are not caused from wax. It's caused from
> improper washing and use of buffing machines.

WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS THAT SHOW THAT THIS IS TRUE? REPEATING YOUR OPINION OVER AND OVER
DOES NOT MAKE WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE.

Yes, there is a lot more to detailing than operating a hack detailing shop for a car dealer, and being a moderator
on a car forum.

As far as Ron goes, should I bow down and worship him like a mindless robot. Sorry I do not drink the kool aid your using .

When you were getting burned out in the corporate world,I was doing mobile detailing. SINCE YOU HAVE NEVER
USED AT-5 HOW DO YOU KNOW I AM BLOWING SMOKE UP MY CUSTOMERS ASS?

detailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> David
>
How many boats
> have you done?
>
>
Quite a few actually.

Here's me doing a $12,000,000 Mangusto Yacht:

and here I am doing a Donzi:

How many cars have you properly buffed in your decades in the industry? How many Concours cars have you detailed? How many interiors have you reconditioned? How many engines have you degreased? How many car have you wetsanded?

How many cars have you properly buffed in your decades in the industry? How many Concours cars have you detailed? How many interiors have you reconditioned? How many engines have you degreased? How many car have you wetsanded?

David

That is what you call a polisher? That may work on cars, and those pads look like they would. wear out quickly.
I have buffed many boat hulls, and it would take forever if I used that thing.

Maybe you are not understanding what i do. I do not do wetsanding, or want to. I do not do Concours cars either.
I specialize in protection. I realize that is a strange concept for you to understand. My customers do not go to car shows.
Sure they want shine, but want protection also.

Most details I have done include engine cleaning, and interiors.

How many 737's have you done? Let me tell you a 1% increase in fuel savings does not come from slapping AT-5
on a dirty surface. It requires polishing which does not include compounds.

Number of vehicles I supervised as an owner or manager, detailed, would be in the upper 10's of thousands of vehicles.

At Automotive International there is a subsidary business to the ValuGard Products, it is ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's. I was the Vice President of Operations of that unit and was well known for jumping in and getting my hands dirty, teaching, mentoring, all that a good manager does.

Something does not add up here with your statement. Two employees doing a 1,000 cars a month with only a $100,000 in yearly sales. According to my math, that means each employee is doing 500 cars a month, 125 details
a week. You also state that it has been doing a 1,000 cars since the 80's, but it was incorporated in 2007. Lastly,
why does it list the business as a :

General Automotive Repair Shops,
General Automotive Repair

Given the Google map picture of the business nothing you say here about your experience seems real. Care to clear this up for me? I would think that should be no problem given you were the VP of Operations.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what is funnier or more ironic?
> Bill's "detailer" screen name or what he considers
> experience needed to deserve the right to use that
> title? What it should read is "Banned" Bill
> seeing that he was already banned once from here
> for being such an AT-5 troll. I've never seen a
> more pathetic person who aligns himself to the
> detailing industry.
>
> Washing swirled up cars and applying an acrylic
> paint sealant to it doesn't make you a detailer.
>
> Teaching newbies how to apply AT-5 to a plane
> doesn't make you a detailer or an instructor
> either.
>
> I'm sorry, but there is ALOT more to detailing
> then this!
>
> Swirls are not caused from wax. It's caused from
> improper washing and use of buffing machines.
> PERIOD.
>
> According to your flawed logic, because all the
> cars in your videos have swirls, that must mean
> you are waxing them?
>
> I would much rather offer service to my clients
> that is genuine rather then blowing smoke up their
> ass about how wonderfully protected their swirled
> up cars will be if you apply a miracle sealant to
> them.
>
> You should be ashamed to even show your face on
> here, let alone disrespect Ron by questioning his
> experience and knowledge like a little 5 year old.
> If you had an ounce of respect and itellect you
> would issue a full apology and get a lobotomy.

David

You should be ashamed to even show your face on
> here, let alone disrespect Ron by questioning his
> experience and knowledge like a little 5 year old.
> If you had an ounce of respect and itellect you
> would issue a full apology and get a lobotomy.

I give respect to people who deserve it, and not to people who try to blow smoke up my Ass.
Clearly, you do not bother to check people who you respect at all.

The company is privately held, owned by Richard Hallberg.
He DOES not release finanical figures to any one.
Don't know where they came up with the figures you found, but it sures sounds like some one fabricated them.
I can devulge this, add a zero to the processing center's guessimate and you will be close.

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The company is privately held, owned by Richard
> Hallberg.
> He DOES not release finanical figures to any one.
> Don't know where they came up with the figures you
> found, but it sures sounds like some one
> fabricated them.
> I can devulge this, add a zero to the processing
> center's guessimate and you will be close.

Ron

There is no way that business does a million dollars of sales on just detailing in that little building.
It seems you have an excuse for everything dont you?

Dunn and Brad street is a credit agency, so they know very well what this business does in sales. Valuguard
has to borrow money from time to time, and you cannot tell me that financial figures for your subsidiary are not known.

When Rick needs money for one of his companies, short term, he has his other companies that loan the money.
And yes, it is possible to do over a million a year, if one knows their business, Delta Sonic's detail operations do at least that much, and like AI, the owner does not release figures, even Professional Car Wash and Detailing magazine have to guess how much volume his carwashes, convience stores, detailing, gas sales do a year.

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When Rick needs money for one of his companies,
> short term, he has his other companies that loan
> the money.
> And yes, it is possible to do over a million a
> year, if one knows their business, Delta Sonic's
> detail operations do at least that much, and like
> AI, the owner does not release figures, even
> Professional Car Wash and Detailing magazine have
> to guess how much volume his carwashes, convience
> stores, detailing, gas sales do a year.

Ron

Did you work for Delta Sonic's detail operations also?You said your company did that, and not a detail operation of many locations.

The company supplies them the bulk of their detailing chemicals and supplies, as well as they licensed them the use of the Prep-Excellence Training Course to train their employees.
A new employee at Delta Sonic's detailing operations must complete the course, pass the final written test, before they may start work.
They then conduct regular educational sessions in order to keep them up to date with changes in paint systems, interior changes, etc.

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The company supplies them the bulk of their
> detailing chemicals and supplies, as well as they
> licensed them the use of the Prep-Excellence
> Training Course to train their employees.
> A new employee at Delta Sonic's detailing
> operations must complete the course, pass the
> final written test, before they may start work.
> They then conduct regular educational sessions in
> order to keep them up to date with changes in
> paint systems, interior changes, etc.

Ron

You change your story all the time. You said this about the company you worked for:

ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's.

First, this company was not incorporated until 2007, so how has THIS company been doing 1000 vehicles per month since the late 80's?

What is a complete mystery to me is how you rationalize correction. Some correction detailers spend 10 -50 hours
on complete details with correction involved, but this company can do it for this price?

As far as your sealant goes, it is just wax with a additive like polycharger to make it hold up to washing longer, and not
produce swirl marks as fast.

As I have said over and over, you have ZERO know ledge of what true paint protection is. You can go on and on about your experience , but it just boils down to you as a salesman selling products much as Bud does today.

Slow down Sparky.
You are so focused on proving everyone wrong you miss a few things.
Here's a start for you.
Automotive International sold off the company that did cars for dealers and private owners to another company in the the early part of the 2000's, it was operated as Auto Preservation. The company that bought it, went belly up due to poor management, etc.
At the request of many local new car dealers in the Cincinnati area, In 2007, Automotive International formed ValuGard Auto Processings and is a very successful company, owned by the owner of Automotive International, Inc.with volume numbers back to what they were before they sold off the Auto Preservation operation.
You still fail to understand the entire scope of the detailing industry or you would not find it necessary to ask questions as to "why can some but other's can" in nature.
Delta Sonic has been a customer of Automotive International for over aprox 14 years, which to a person of average intelligence, indicate that they are pleased with the products, services and support provided. What they market or how they market said products and services is their decision and apparently they are quite successful at doing so.
Let's get another thing out in the open---I retired in Sept of 2008, do your math, that is 4 years ago.
I do not get a check or commissions from the company that I worked for for 13 years.
I am still friends with the people there and have close friendships with a couple of employees, who do inform me of some of the activities of the company. I have not set foot on their property since a quick visit to Cincinnati in the fall of 2009.
Buffer Bill, stop your attempts to discredit any person or product that does not meet your personal approval. You should have learned by now that constant, feeble attacks on others does little but present you in a very unfavorable light.

Bill - You have no business being such a pathetic little tyrant trying to discredit Ron's experience. All the threads you start are the same way....attacking someone else's opinion from forums you wish you could go on by twisting reality with the same old crap you spew.

I'd love for you to go into detail about your decades of detailing experience and your list of accomplishments in the industry?

You're sitting on your self assummed throne thinking you have the answers to everything just because you've sealed a couple planes and do wash & seals on swirled up cars. This, is a spec of sand on Ron's beach of accomplishments and knowledge. I'd be wiling to bet Ron has forgotten more in a week about detailing then you've learned in all your decades.

I don't see how what you do or have done makes you competant enough to even call or consider yourself a "Detailer"???? You are the cream of the crop of the bottom of the barrel of what Florida is plagued with and that is kicking you up a few notches actually.