I have no idea where others stand on abortion but I believe in certain cases everyone should keep their opinions to themselves and let the people involved decide. One of those cases is when the pregnancy is due to rape.

Jeff Boettcher wrote:I wonder how many "pro-lifers" are in favor of the death penalty for adult criminals?

Jeff,Not sure I understand the point of your question. There is a big difference between a criminal who has commited a horrific crime, has been tried by jury, convicted and sentenced to death, and an innocent, unborn baby that has no choice or influence regarding its life. In reference to Kerrys' post, that is a sad sad situation. Two innocent lives destroyed, A young girls childhood forever ruined and a "step father" (and I use that term very loosely) who appears to have walked away possibly to perpitrate the crime again. I understand the doctors ethical position to help the family of the young girl, but I also can't agree with the destruction of two innocent lives to protect the young girl. If her life was in danger, it would be a difficult decision, but a decision would have to be made and the family should be left to make that decision in privacy. The church got it wrong and appears to have done nothing but throw coals on the situation.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. Albert Einstein

It is possible that the fetuses could have been removed and kept alive with extraneous medical care and costs. However, when you take that effort and money and put it toward saving lives that we all agree are full humans, it is much more pro-life to do so. The nine year old and the fetuses would likely have all died without medical intervention. So should the doctors have stepped aside and let the "pro-life" god/gods run the show?

Jeff Boettcher wrote:I wonder how many "pro-lifers" are in favor of the death penalty for adult criminals?

Jeff,Not sure I understand the point of your question. There is a big difference between a criminal who has commited a horrific crime, has been tried by jury, convicted and sentenced to death, and an innocent, unborn baby that has no choice or influence regarding its life.

I think the idea is that it is ironic for someone to be pro-life when it comes to abortion, however are in favor of the death penalty. Personally, I think it's more ironic to be pro-choice and against the death penalty, but there is confliction in both cases.

IAMWHATIAM wrote:In reference to Kerrys' post, that is a sad sad situation. Two innocent lives destroyed, A young girls childhood forever ruined and a "step father" (and I use that term very loosely) who appears to have walked away possibly to perpitrate the crime again. I understand the doctors ethical position to help the family of the young girl, but I also can't agree with the destruction of two innocent lives to protect the young girl. If her life was in danger, it would be a difficult decision, but a decision would have to be made and the family should be left to make that decision in privacy. The church got it wrong and appears to have done nothing but throw coals on the situation.

I don't know if this has been studied, but I believe the problem is that the mother of these fetuses would have further mental trauma due to being forced to raise the children.

A week or so a go, I saw a professor who studied the "science of forgiveness". Normally, I would roll my eyes at the idea, but after his presentation, I believe that there is value to the process that he has created and would likely benefit the girl in this story who was raped.

I still find the terminology regarding fetuses very interesting when it comes to abortion. Someone who is "pro-choice" tends to use the word fetus to describe an unborn child. Someone who is "pro-life" is more likely to use baby or unborn child. I think overall, as a society were are "pro-choice", judging by the terminology. When a woman is pregnant, the tendancy is to say, "I'm going to have a baby", not, "I have a baby." The unborn are not counted on your taxes or by the census. When you find out the sex during the 20 week ultrasound, you are told, "You're going to have a boy(or girl)."

Eventually science will have caught up to this problem. Early developed fetuses will be able to be removed from the mother and artificially developed until they reach full term. Unfortunately this will create as many ethical issues as it will solve.

"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black

neup99 wrote:I think the idea is that it is ironic for someone to be pro-life when it comes to abortion, however are in favor of the death penalty.

Pro-life means for life, all life. People who are anti-abortion but pro death penalty are not pro-life. They are anti-abortion. You cannot pick and choose if you are pro-life.

You're right. The term "pro-life" is used to refer to one side of the abortion issue. I meant to use it to catagorize a group, not in the actual definition. A lack of punctuation changed the statement.

I think the idea is that it is ironic for someone to be "pro-life" when it comes to abortion, however are in favor of the death penalty.

"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black

neup99 wrote:I think the idea is that it is ironic for someone to be "pro-life" when it comes to abortion, however are in favor of the death penalty.

If you are against abortion but for the death penalty you are not pro-life by any definition. To be pro-life is to be against abortion, against the death penalty, and against euthanasia. It is a misuse of the term if it is used to only include unborn life.

For the record I am pro-life. George Bush is not pro-life, nor are many of the leaders in the anti-abortion movement,

Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Well, if you really want to argue semantics, no you are not pro-life either. I hope you didn't buy any bumper stickers from your car to advertise your belief. Unless of course, you have never killed a mosquito with a swat of your hand, a spider with a stomp of your foot or a mouse by using a trap.

Have you ever eaten rooted vegetables? You have? Nope, sorry you're not pro-life. However if you had eaten a vegetable where the main plant survived, it had merely an amputation, though I don't know that it's much more humane. How about meat? Unless you cut off a steak as you need it and let the cow wander the fields like an incomplete puzzle, you are not pro-life. What did you season the steak with? Any herbs where the plant did not survive? Uh oh. No pro-life sticker for you.

If you have ever used insecticides, pesticides or weed killer, you are not pro-life. If you use paper to write a letter, cardboard to send a gift or wood to build a home, you are not pro-life.

So where does this leave us? Well, arguing semantics, that's where. I explained the use of the term, but apparently that wasn't clear enough. Hopefully this is. Considering your second assertation was nearly identical to the first, I'm not sure.

"Pro-life" is a term to decribe a group of people who believe abortion is wrong. I'm not the first person to use this term and I won't be the last. Likely the only people who are truly pro-life are Buddhist monks, although some are not vegetarians. The ones who have eaten meat will sit down and think about what they did. If only they drove cars so they could have "pro-life" bumper stickers identifying them from the crowd. If only.

"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black

Well, well, there's Jeff. Was wondering where you were. Once again, a classic Jeffism.......ZZZZZZZZ I love it when you get that way. I'm especially fond of....TILT, Z's are just as good. Welcome back. Missed your words of wisdom. TILT-ZZZZZ, yours truly, the Catfish.

neup99 : pro life is concerning human life....not plants - lets get real - below is definition for the social movement" - yes, there are many different aspects but the social aspect is the one most addressed.

Pro-life is a term representing a variety of perspectives and activist movements in medical ethics. It is most commonly used, especially in the media and popular discourse, to refer to opposition to abortion. More generally, the term describes a political and ethical view which maintains that human fetuses and embryos are persons and therefore have a right to live. Less commonly, it can be used to indicate opposition to practices such as euthanasia, the death penalty, human cloning, and research involving human embryonic stem cells.

On the issue of abortion, pro-life campaigners are opposed by pro-choice campaigners who generally argue in terms of the reproductive rights of the woman, rather than fetal rights.

logic1 wrote:neup99 : pro life is concerning human life....not plants - lets get real - below is definition for the social movement" - yes, there are many different aspects but the social aspect is the one most addressed.

Pro-life is a term representing a variety of perspectives and activist movements in medical ethics. It is most commonly used, especially in the media and popular discourse, to refer to opposition to abortion. More generally, the term describes a political and ethical view which maintains that human fetuses and embryos are persons and therefore have a right to live. Less commonly, it can be used to indicate opposition to practices such as euthanasia, the death penalty, human cloning, and research involving human embryonic stem cells.

On the issue of abortion, pro-life campaigners are opposed by pro-choice campaigners who generally argue in terms of the reproductive rights of the woman, rather than fetal rights.

I was going for that definition earlier, but apparently it didn't sit well with someone with an apparent agenda, so I tried sarcasm.

"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black