You bring up sound points and solid arguments. For myself I worship nothing, and believe in much. I am quite positive that there is an afterlife, based on personal experiences. What it is exactly? I am far from sure. But I believe that the essence of what makes us an individual survives on eternally. Is there a God? Yes, but this spirit is not what Christians believe. I believe this spirit we name as God does not control, punish, judge, blame or interfere. We all have free will and choice. How we live our lives and conduct ourselves is choice and can be a gift and a punishment for the soul. I believe God is the Universe, and everything in it, small and large. God is in all of us in the good AND bad we do everyday.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33543587

But what you believe is not Universal truth, it is your opinion, and you made GOD into your image....

Quoting: christian

Well DUH, Susie. What do you think you do everytime you think about 'God' and what 'God' means to you? You project your own understanding and your own conceptualization of what 'God' signifies to YOU based on your awareness level. Just like the men who wrote the bible did. Why do you think there is murder, slavery, rape, spite, vengeance, and jealousy in that book that you worship? Those are HUMAN actions & HUMAN emotions that are projected & attributed to 'God' from the minds of men. There is no need to criticize someone for having his/her own conceptualizations about 'God' just because you believe 'God' is found in a book and don't realize that you are also creating your own image of 'God' in your own mind.

Quoting: ANHEDONIC

In Judaism they have one concept of GOD that is verified in the Tanach and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Quoting: christian

All religions/cultures created their own ideas about 'God' / 'Gods' and encouraged their followers/people of their time to subscribe to them. Sumerian 'Gods', Egyptian 'Gods', Greek 'Gods', Roman 'Gods', Mayan 'Gods', Hindu 'Gods'. Judaism is no different along with the other monotheistic religions. What is your point here? Have you noticed how the conceptualization of 'God'/'Gods' changes over time and from culture to culture? Why do you think that is?

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

Quoting: simultaneous_final

A true atheist would state there is no God. One who merely lacks belief is generally defined as agnostic. Since you don't even grasp the basic terms involved you might consider just butting out since those who'd argue either side wouldn't listen to you anyway.

Quoting: Raymantheheretic

An atheist LACKS BELIEF in a god or gods.

An atheist needn't express a belief that "there IS NO god".

Take, for example, someone raised without a concept of gods. They are an atheist because they don't profess a belief in god.

Strictly speaking, EVERYONE is an "agnostic". From the Jesus freaks to the rabid "positive atheists".

Definition of AGNOSTIC1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Strictly speaking your use of the word sucks. If one thinks they believe in or know God even to the slightest degree they are not agnostic by any stretch of the definition.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

Quoting: simultaneous_final

A true atheist would state there is no God. One who merely lacks belief is generally defined as agnostic. Since you don't even grasp the basic terms involved you might consider just butting out since those who'd argue either side wouldn't listen to you anyway.

Quoting: Raymantheheretic

An atheist LACKS BELIEF in a god or gods.

An atheist needn't express a belief that "there IS NO god".

Take, for example, someone raised without a concept of gods. They are an atheist because they don't profess a belief in god.

Strictly speaking, EVERYONE is an "agnostic". From the Jesus freaks to the rabid "positive atheists".

Definition of AGNOSTIC1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

Strictly speaking your use of the word sucks. If one thinks they believe in or know God even to the slightest degree they are not agnostic by any stretch of the definition.

You want to argue about it? Maybe you should

Quoting: Raymantheheretic

Yes, I would like to argue about it.

That's incorrect.

I, for example, BELIEVE in a god as much as I BELIEVE that you are a real human being and not a figment of my imagination.

I can't KNOW either of those things (or much else).

And neither can you. Or Richard Dawkins or Pat Robertson or the Pope or the Dhali Lama or ANYONE.

By being intellectually honest, we find that we are ALL agnostics. Many won't admit that to themselves or anyone else. However, subconsciously they must realize it. This is one reason that people actively seek to validate their beliefs and disbeliefs.

Also, (from wiki):

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.

I think this is one of the better threads on GLP in a long long time. It does bother me, however, that a couple of souls on here did not experience anything in their NDE.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33543587

Not sure mine was NDE. I believe I was shown the future. MAJOR deja vu on 9-11.

The bug that got me took a while to put me down, and it seemed to go right for the nervous system. No spewing from either end. Just so weak I couldn't function for several days.

I remember late one night I woke up to the DJ on the radio freaking out about a lot of activity outside the studio, as in WTF are all the flashing lights, etc. Alice In Chains 'Dirt' was in the CD player, and those songs give me the chills to this day. I basically sweated it out. I don't know what my temperature was.

Afterward I wanted a doctor to check and tell me what had hit me. I beat mono almost 20 yrs. before and it was still in my blood months later, which was my last checkup. Never did go, paranoid I guess.

While trying to remember how to wash clothes, at the parents' house, I told them I wasn't sure I was still the same person. It got better, but after 14 yrs. of rebuilding, I feel like a kid again when something forgotten reappears.

I told the new girl that I had searched for her half my life, and trying to find ME for half her life. Maybe there's a song in all this.

...GOD IS IN CONTROL!!! This age is ending now. Get your ways straight and live in His Word. It is your choice.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135

I do not choose to impose any human limitations, such as gender, or emotions, such as HATE, to the Creator. I choose liberty and justice for ALL. The choice IS mine, no control required. Good thread. Peaces.

Quoting: hillbilly

You have no control, you are either a slave to the state or you are free to live a spirit guided life that comes from GOD Master of the Universe

Quoting: christian

You are just a silly little person.

I had a long, mean rant to post but I'll just leave it at this. And I feel most everyone here agrees.

I like you OP, your christian and know the truth that we can not prove there is or isnt , i dont believe in a being creating us really but more like the universe is god, i get shit on here because i reject this but i like jesus as a man and so on anyways idk the truth no one does but i do know these arguments are useless and will divide us as people. Peace!

america is like a ship with a captain gone mad, he is steering us right towards the reef, half the passengers are screaming, the other half are cheering, and DOOM awaits us all.

I like you OP, your christian and know the truth that we can not prove there is or isnt , i dont believe in a being creating us really but more like the universe is god, i get shit on here because i reject this but i like jesus as a man and so on anyways idk the truth no one does but i do know these arguments are useless and will divide us as people. Peace!

Quoting: AtsuiPanda

Sorry but I'm not a Christian. I was raised Jewish.

If you're wondering, my NDE didn't have anything to do with Jesus. The guy wasn't mentioned.

The flaw in that story is that one type of faith is due to simple logic and evidence, whilst the other type is due to brainwashing. You cannot compare them as equals.

By your reasoning, you would have to have "faith" about everything, every second of every day. For example, you will probably plan meetings tomorrow on the premise that you are still going to be alive. You don't know that 100%, but with simple logic and reasoning, you can ascertain that there is a great probability, and therefore can justify your "faith".

The other type of faith is blind, desperate, grasping-at-straws belief in something regardless of wether it follows logic and reasoning. For example, the group of people that all commited suicide due to their "faith" that a UFO was coming to take them away. Faith due to brainwashing is not the same as faith due to logic, sorry.

What you mean is some of us can use logic and reasoning, and some of us can't. I already knew that though.

I like you OP, your christian and know the truth that we can not prove there is or isnt , i dont believe in a being creating us really but more like the universe is god, i get shit on here because i reject this but i like jesus as a man and so on anyways idk the truth no one does but i do know these arguments are useless and will divide us as people. Peace!

Quoting: AtsuiPanda

Sorry but I'm not a Christian. I was raised Jewish.

If you're wondering, my NDE didn't have anything to do with Jesus. The guy wasn't mentioned.

Quoting: simultaneous_final

Ohh, well maybe i should have been more specific you believe in the arabic god, better? anyways, still good to know not all religious people get all crazy all tho quite a few are cool here.

america is like a ship with a captain gone mad, he is steering us right towards the reef, half the passengers are screaming, the other half are cheering, and DOOM awaits us all.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need tobecause your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.

The flaw in that story is that one type of faith is due to simple logic and evidence, whilst the other type is due to brainwashing. You cannot compare them as equals.

By your reasoning, you would have to have "faith" about everything, every second of every day. For example, you will probably plan meetings tomorrow on the premise that you are still going to be alive. You don't know that 100%, but with simple logic and reasoning, you can ascertain that there is a great probability, and therefore can justify your "faith".

The other type of faith is blind, desperate, grasping-at-straws belief in something regardless of wether it follows logic and reasoning. For example, the group of people that all commited suicide due to their "faith" that a UFO was coming to take them away. Faith due to brainwashing is not the same as faith due to logic, sorry.

What you mean is some of us can use logic and reasoning, and some of us can't. I already knew that though.

Quoting: BossBitch

Faith is required every second of every day for any and all people.

Also, you assume that religious people have no rational basis for their belief. What of the people who have accumulated experiential data which supports (or even shapes) their beliefs?

Take my NDE for example. It may have been a hallucination. I concede that. However, because of the quality of the experience (qualitatively indistinguishable from normal waking "reality"), I choose to have as much faith in its reality as I have in normal waking reality. Perhaps this is a mistake. Perhaps not.

Another (but hypothetical) example

Suppose a man prays to Vishnu to win a scratch-off lottery ticket. Be wins. Suppose he does the same thing the next week and wins. And again.

Would he be irrational (at that point after the third win) to have faith in the existence of Vishnu?

My point is that our accumulated experiential data forms what we consider "real". And rightly so. We make logical INDUCTIONS based upon data.

But even Aristotle realized that inductions can not be relied upon. A simpler way to say this is "statistics tell us what has been but not what is or what will be".

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need tobecause your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.

Quoting: simultaneous_final

Well said Op. Why anyone would label themselves as an atheist or christian or whatever is beyond me. At least they let us know they are fucktards straight away.

I like you OP, your christian and know the truth that we can not prove there is or isnt , i dont believe in a being creating us really but more like the universe is god, i get shit on here because i reject this but i like jesus as a man and so on anyways idk the truth no one does but i do know these arguments are useless and will divide us as people. Peace!

Quoting: AtsuiPanda

Sorry but I'm not a Christian. I was raised Jewish.

If you're wondering, my NDE didn't have anything to do with Jesus. The guy wasn't mentioned.

Quoting: simultaneous_final

Ohh, well maybe i should have been more specific you believe in the arabic god, better? anyways, still good to know not all religious people get all crazy all tho quite a few are cool here.

Quoting: AtsuiPanda

It's all good, man!

The problem is that many religious people think it is a sin to admit that they don't know what is real. They see it as a lack of faith when it's an admission of faith.