I think we can all agree that Shuriken Toss is a pretty underwhelming abilitiy. But last night, in testing, I made a very startling realization. If Shuriken Toss advanced Bandit's Guile, it would be more powerful than Sinister Strike for Combat (ignoring potential Main Gauche procs)...

That's all just based on some pitiful amount of head-math. Basically, on a 90 Rogue with full Malevolent Glad's gear, Sinister Strike hits for an ass-kicking 9k, whereas Shuriken Toss costs half as much, still triggers poisons, and hits for 7k.

Yeah, it doesn't give the combo point proc with Revealing Strike, but it's still a guarenteed two combo points per 'cost' of Sinister Strike. It also doesn't have a minimum range (you can toss in melee).

Naturally, I'm not sure how well Shuriken Toss scales with gear, though, and wether or not it runs off Melee or Ranged stats.

I dunno. I feel like this speaks much more about the state of Rogues than anything else I've seen this expansion.

Glad to see Shuriken Toss is a reasonable ranged alternative so we rogues can bitchslap dragons in their stupid airphases.

I don't think blizzard wants viable in all fights tho, 70-80% DMG of Sinister Strike, Backstab, or Mutiliate with same energy cost is how it will end up probably. 80% of damage while costing 1/2 as much as SS is too good IMHO.

You know what happened when i started playing in TBC in 2.1 and rolled ret as my first char? Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret You know what i was saying in a few months? Lol hows kara? Then I cleared BT/SW while they followed behind me sniffing my gloriously rosey turds.

Glad to see Shuriken Toss is a reasonable ranged alternative so we rogues can bitchslap dragons in their stupid airphases.

I don't think blizzard wants viable in all fights tho, 70-80% DMG of Sinister Strike, Backstab, or Mutiliate with same energy cost is how it will end up probably. 80% of damage while costing 1/2 as much as SS is too good IMHO.

Since Rogues can't auto-attack while Shuriken Tossing (if used at range) they'll probably just add a minimum range.

I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

I'm very confused as to what niche ST is supposed to fill. A ranged slow? A ranged CP builder? Just... a ranged attack?

Because it doesn't fulfill either one of those roles very well. Having a ranged CP builder doesn't really help a class that mainly focuses on white melee attacks. A ranged slow isn't too shabby for PVP needs, but the range itself is rather disappointing. Overall, it just seems like a generally useless talent that was just thrown in to fill the last tier 90 spot.

The OP's disappointing realization isn't as disappointing as the ability itself.

Man, that's negative. I've literally wanted this ability since vanilla. Back then I didn't think I'd get poisons on the shuriken though!

Whenever I thought of a shuriken like ability it was usually not just.. A small, almost unnoticeable shuriken. It was this larger AOE type, hard hitting nuke. Like a giant start rushing from the rogue, damaging everything in a cone in front of him. Something akin to the Glaive Toss thingy that hunters will be getting, ironically...

Whenever I thought of a shuriken like ability it was usually not just.. A small, almost unnoticeable shuriken. It was this larger AOE type, hard hitting nuke. Like a giant start rushing from the rogue, damaging everything in a cone in front of him. Something akin to the Glaive Toss thingy that hunters will be getting, ironically...

ST, as it is, is very disappointing in my opinion.

This came to my mind: (not the best of images but shows the proportions well enough and hopefully I'm allowed to link this)

The problem is simply Slice and Dice, and how every spec is balanced around it... Can't sufficiently stress that it needs a heavy nerf or to be completely removed, at least from Assassination and Sub. It is the sole reason for the heavy spec homogenization and lack of spec identity/feel.

The problem is simply Slice and Dice, and how every spec is balanced around it... Can't sufficiently stress that it needs a heavy nerf or to be completely removed, at least from Assassination and Sub. It is the sole reason for the heavy spec homogenization and lack of spec identity/feel.

It's doubly so for combat. Not only does SnD need to be nerfed--so does ambidexterity. Ambidexterity needs to be nerfed to the level of the old DW spec talent (+50% offhand damage instead of +75%), and have it buff sinister strike damage to compensate. Sinister strike does significantly less damage than backstab at a greater energy cost, and the reason for that is just how much of combat's damage comes from the offhand autoattacks (thanks to ambidexterity).

Also, revealing strike needs to be buffed from +35% finisher effectiveness to +45% (same as glyphed live version), imo.

It's doubly so for combat. Not only does SnD need to be nerfed--so does ambidexterity. Ambidexterity needs to be nerfed to the level of the old DW spec talent (+50% offhand damage instead of +75%), and have it buff sinister strike damage to compensate. Sinister strike does significantly less damage than backstab at a greater energy cost, and the reason for that is just how much of combat's damage comes from the offhand autoattacks (thanks to ambidexterity).

Also, revealing strike needs to be buffed from +35% finisher effectiveness to +45% (same as glyphed live version), imo.

I do not necessarily agree.
I actually like Combat as it is, to be honest. A spec that emphasizes on auto attack use, giving it great sustained dps but mediocre burst dps is fine. It's unique in its own way. The problem, however, is that Assassination and Subtlety are no different!

It's fine to have one spec that does one thing well but is less potent for other things; It's a problem when ALL 3 specs function the same way!

Slice and Dice can stay like it is for Combat. Hell, I would say it should become a spec specific buff. Slice should be exclusive to Combat. It just needs to stay away from Sub and Assassination, and both specs should be given something fitting in return.