AZGrizFan wrote:That vote means literally nothing, and if you knew anything about Texas politics you’d know that. There were literally hundreds of thousands of votes cast AGAINST Boobs rather than for O’Rourke.

Ok then we can go with what happened nationally in the House generic ballot in 2018. The 18 through 24 year old age group voted more strongly for Democrats than any other age group. 68% to 31%. You're kidding yourself if you think this "Generation Z" is leaning Republican or Conservative.

It’s not me saying that. But again, I get it that it’s not a poll that fits your narrative.

"Ah ****. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12

JohnStOnge wrote:Ok then we can go with what happened nationally in the House generic ballot in 2018. The 18 through 24 year old age group voted more strongly for Democrats than any other age group. 68% to 31%. You're kidding yourself if you think this "Generation Z" is leaning Republican or Conservative.

It’s not me saying that. But again, I get it that it’s not a poll that fits your narrative.

AGF, the bottom line is that the stuff you cited said that polls showed Generation Z voted differently. That's not what the polls showed. That's the point.

It's not that the polls showed something that don't fit my "narrative." It's that the polls have not shown that this "Generation Z" has voted anything other than overwhelmingly Democrat.

If I looked at the exit polling data and they showed that there was some sign of people born from the mid 1990s through the mid 2000s voting anything other than overwhelmingly Democrat I would be fine with saying so. But they don't show that. They don't even remotely suggest it.

Well, I believe that I must tell the truthAnd say things as they really areBut if I told the truth and nothing but the truthCould I ever be a star?Deep Purple: No One Came

JohnStOnge wrote:Ok then we can go with what happened nationally in the House generic ballot in 2018. The 18 through 24 year old age group voted more strongly for Democrats than any other age group. 68% to 31%. You're kidding yourself if you think this "Generation Z" is leaning Republican or Conservative.

It’s not me saying that. But again, I get it that it’s not a poll that fits your narrative.

Ok AZG I made an honest effort to see what I can see in polling data about this Generation Z. Maybe I could be more respectful in the way I say things. Like maybe I could avoid saying things like "you're kidding yourself." But everything I'm seeing suggests that they are a plus for the Democrats.

Unlike the much-studied millennials, we don’t know much about Generation Z, who now make up most of the 18- to 24-year-old voting bloc.

That brings us back to what exit polling estimates for how the 18 through 24 year old age group voted during the 2018 House elections. The linked article was written shortly before the 2018 elections. You can see an estimate of how the 18 through 24 group voted at https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit- ... al-results. The estimate is that 18 through 24 year olds voted for Democrats by 68% to 31%.

Bernie SandersOn oil companies:"I would also urge you to give serious thought about the eventual nationalization of these gigantic companies”..

"We have got to begin to deal with the fact that corporations do not have the god-given right to disrupt the lives of their workers or the economic foundation of their towns simply because they wish to move elsewhere to earn a higher rate of profit.”..

“In the long run, the problem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.”..

“I believe that, in the long run, major industries in this state and nation should be publicly owned and controlled by the workers themselves."..

"I believe in socialized medicine, public ownership of the drug companies and placing doctors on salaries.”..

Yeah I don't think they should've done that; especially because the moderator almost certainly would've been either Chris Wallace and Brett Baier and those two are legitimate. They would be fair.

I don't know how much it'll actually hurt them though. I don't think the key is trying to get through to Trump zombies. They are a lost cause. Not rational. Like people in a cult. The key to me is to get that majority of the People who don't like Trump or the job he's doing to turn out. And I don't know if going on Fox News for a debate or not going is going to be a factor impacting that.

Well, I believe that I must tell the truthAnd say things as they really areBut if I told the truth and nothing but the truthCould I ever be a star?Deep Purple: No One Came

On that graph he showed showing Fox News as having the highest single percentage of persons citing it as a news source: The "on the other hand" is that Fox News is the only right-leaning source on the list. You could just eyeball it and come up with the same conclusions you'd get by searching for those news entities at mediabiasfactcheck.com/methodology/. At that site CNN and MSNBC are "Left" bias sources while NBC, ABC, CBS, NPR, and the New York Times are "Left-Center" bias sources. If you add up the percentages saying they use some source that leans left to some extent it's 39%.

What's really scary is that 8% of respondents cited Facebook as their news source. That's a lot of people. Pretty bad.

Well, I believe that I must tell the truthAnd say things as they really areBut if I told the truth and nothing but the truthCould I ever be a star?Deep Purple: No One Came

BDKJMU wrote:Bernie SandersOn oil companies:"I would also urge you to give serious thought about the eventual nationalization of these gigantic companies”..

"We have got to begin to deal with the fact that corporations do not have the god-given right to disrupt the lives of their workers or the economic foundation of their towns simply because they wish to move elsewhere to earn a higher rate of profit.”..

“In the long run, the problem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.”..

“I believe that, in the long run, major industries in this state and nation should be publicly owned and controlled by the workers themselves."..

"I believe in socialized medicine, public ownership of the drug companies and placing doctors on salaries.”..

BDKJMU wrote:Bernie SandersOn oil companies:"I would also urge you to give serious thought about the eventual nationalization of these gigantic companies”..

"We have got to begin to deal with the fact that corporations do not have the god-given right to disrupt the lives of their workers or the economic foundation of their towns simply because they wish to move elsewhere to earn a higher rate of profit.”..

“In the long run, the problem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.”..

“I believe that, in the long run, major industries in this state and nation should be publicly owned and controlled by the workers themselves."..

"I believe in socialized medicine, public ownership of the drug companies and placing doctors on salaries.”..

Regardless, BDK was disingenuous with that post. There are several articles of the same ilk including this one from Matt Welch at Reason http://time.com/4121126/bernie-sanders- ... socialism/ which are kind enough to admit in the headline that the quotes are from decades ago rather than BDK's boogeyman tactics.

Has Bernie softened his views on economics or is he lying to get votes and if elected will push us off the marxist cliff? Debatable (and Welch does a good job as usual arguing the free market side) but at least it should be an honest debate that makes an attempt to avoid the pinko-commie dismissals.

Democratic socialism, Sanders said, is not tied to any Marxist belief or the abolition of capitalism. “I don’t believe government should own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a fair deal,” he said.

I just don't see a huge difference in wielding the anti-commie sword versus wielding the anti-feudalism sword. We're a mixed market economy and we're really just arguing degrees of economic regulation.

Regardless, BDK was disingenuous with that post. There are several articles of the same ilk including this one from Matt Welch at Reason http://time.com/4121126/bernie-sanders- ... socialism/ which are kind enough to admit in the headline that the quotes are from decades ago rather than BDK's boogeyman tactics.

Has Bernie softened his views on economics or is he lying to get votes and if elected will push us off the marxist cliff? Debatable (and Welch does a good job as usual arguing the free market side) but at least it should be an honest debate that makes an attempt to avoid the pinko-commie dismissals.

Democratic socialism, Sanders said, is not tied to any Marxist belief or the abolition of capitalism. “I don’t believe government should own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a fair deal,” he said.

I just don't see a huge difference in wielding the anti-commie sword versus wielding the anti-feudalism sword. We're a mixed market economy and we're really just arguing degrees of economic regulation.

TL/DR

Tell me how government ownership of the means of production isn’t full bore Communism again.. i forget

BTW that’s how you wind up with unilateral strongmen like Stalin and Chavez- they control the purse strings and the jobs because they control government

BDKJMU wrote:Bernie SandersOn oil companies:"I would also urge you to give serious thought about the eventual nationalization of these gigantic companies”..

"We have got to begin to deal with the fact that corporations do not have the god-given right to disrupt the lives of their workers or the economic foundation of their towns simply because they wish to move elsewhere to earn a higher rate of profit.”..

“In the long run, the problem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.”..

“I believe that, in the long run, major industries in this state and nation should be publicly owned and controlled by the workers themselves."..

"I believe in socialized medicine, public ownership of the drug companies and placing doctors on salaries.”..

I think Sanders probably does believe in those things he said 50 years ago. The problem for conservatives who disagree with those outlooks is that they are in the process of discrediting their point of view by virtue of supporting Donald Trump. Conservative support of Donald Trump makes ultimate victory by those who hold Sanders' points of view more likely.

Well, I believe that I must tell the truthAnd say things as they really areBut if I told the truth and nothing but the truthCould I ever be a star?Deep Purple: No One Came

JohnStOnge wrote:I think Sanders probably does believe in those things he said 50 years ago. The problem for conservatives who disagree with those outlooks is that they are in the process of discrediting their point of view by virtue of supporting Donald Trump. Conservative support of Donald Trump makes ultimate victory by those who hold Sanders' points of view more likely.

BDKJMU wrote:Bernie SandersOn oil companies:"I would also urge you to give serious thought about the eventual nationalization of these gigantic companies”..

"We have got to begin to deal with the fact that corporations do not have the god-given right to disrupt the lives of their workers or the economic foundation of their towns simply because they wish to move elsewhere to earn a higher rate of profit.”..

“In the long run, the problem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.”..

“I believe that, in the long run, major industries in this state and nation should be publicly owned and controlled by the workers themselves."..

"I believe in socialized medicine, public ownership of the drug companies and placing doctors on salaries.”..

JohnStOnge wrote:I think Sanders probably does believe in those things he said 50 years ago. The problem for conservatives who disagree with those outlooks is that they are in the process of discrediting their point of view by virtue of supporting Donald Trump. Conservative support of Donald Trump makes ultimate victory by those who hold Sanders' points of view more likely.

This post is so TDS it deserves some bikinis to counteract

You've got the locus of derangement wrong again but the pictures are nice.

Well, I believe that I must tell the truthAnd say things as they really areBut if I told the truth and nothing but the truthCould I ever be a star?Deep Purple: No One Came