I was thinking the other night about when little Anakin is talking about seeing Qui-Gons "laser sword" and says that no one can kill a Jedi. Qui-Gon then gets an almost sad face and says "I only wish that were true". Could it be possible that he foresaw himself getting killed by Maul? As far as I know the Jedi didn't die unless by accident, natural causes, or the occasional peace keeping mission death. The Jedi had no one to fear in these times because it was before the Sith revealed themselves so what would cause Qui-Gon to make such a statement except for him seeing the future?

stillakid

12-18-2004, 08:13 PM

Nah, it was just another clunky attempt at foreshadowing by Poet Lauriette G. Lucas. Sort of in the same vein as when the old woman (who has absolutely nothing to do with the story) is brought onto the screen to say the immortal and overused words, "a storm is comin'." Gee, I wonder what that could mean? :rolleyes:

Kidhuman

12-18-2004, 08:20 PM

Well, if you read ShadowHunter, you know that Maul killed a Jedi. Qui_gon was out looking for him as well. ALso I am sure he knows about Jedi who have past on in battles and such. Probably some of his friends. I am sure he has heard stories from Yopda who was around for Hundreds of years.

Slicker

12-18-2004, 08:41 PM

Yes but "the Sith have been extinct for a millenia". If there were no official "Jedi killers" why would the most powerful group of people in the galaxy have need to fear dying if no one has the ability to do it. Obviously Jedi have died from altercations but I'm sure the rarity of it would not be enough to frighten someone.

Rocketboy

12-18-2004, 10:03 PM

Isn't/wasn't Aurra Sing some big time Jedi killer or some crap?

Slicker

12-18-2004, 11:14 PM

IF you go by EU. Which I don't but you would probably have to take that into account because it is liscensed(sp?) by George.

Kidhuman

12-19-2004, 09:03 AM

You almost have to go by EU in this situation. There is no "cannon" on this subject. I understand why ypou wouldnt but we know in 1000 years, some Jedi have had to be murdered.

Slicker

12-19-2004, 03:35 PM

That's exactly it though. Some Jedi have been murdered in 1,000 years. That's a long time for there to be even a couple of hundred Jedi murdered. I'm not sure how many Jedi there are in the galaxy but I'm assuming the number is in the thousands or tens of thousands. To only have a few murdered out of that number wouldn't scare me that much if at all. I've kind of always thought that Qui-Gon may have seen his death but I didn't realize it until I was thinking the other day.

Kidhuman

12-19-2004, 11:06 PM

To the same degree, we must wonder if all Jedi see there own death. Ben was dueling pretty hard on the DS1, but as soon as he saw Luke, he gave up.

stillakid

12-19-2004, 11:56 PM

To the same degree, we must wonder if all Jedi see there own death. Ben was dueling pretty hard on the DS1, but as soon as he saw Luke, he gave up.

That wasn't a case of Ben seeing his own death, methinks. I think that he just realized that he would be more help to the cause as a spirit. So instead of continuing to duel with an indefinite outcome, he realized that by taking one for the team would compel Luke to stop shooting, get on the ship, and get out of there to fight another day.

El Chuxter

12-20-2004, 02:07 PM

Before all this "Jedi only vanish after ROTS" garbage, I thought the reason Qui-Gon didn't vanish was because he was unprepared for death. Look at the "Oh ****!" expression on his face when Maul impales him. He didn't see it coming.

All it takes is one Jedi who Qui-Gon knew personally to be killed for Qui-Gon to say those words to Anakin. If you're going by EU, Qui-Gon knew several Jedi who fell in the line of duty, including a former apprentice who'd turned to the Dark Side.

JediTricks

12-21-2004, 09:24 PM

I felt it was just Qui-Gon reflecting upon the legend of the Jedi with his own realistic outlook, thus further showing us, Ani & his mom that he is a REAL Jedi rather than some self-important pompous jerk Jedi or a cheap poseur to the title of Jedi Knight.

darthvyn

12-26-2004, 05:08 PM

on both disappearing, and foreknowledge of demise, we have ben kenobi, who, when asked if obi-wan kenobi was dead, he replied

"well, he's not dead. at least, not yet."

obi-wan lifted his lightsaber, at one with the force, in the knowledge that he has set in motion events that will undo the evil in the galaxy. he is resigned to his fate, at the same time as he has fulfilled it.

qui-gon is told by ani that no one can kill a jedi. he replies,

"i wish that were true." in a whistful tone that denotes a certain sadness. is it sadness at those who have gone before, or at his own demise? so much that he wishes to fight his fate, go against the grain of the jedi and perhaps even the force?

upon swearing to take anakin as his apprentice, qui-gon not only disobeys the jedi council, but changes his fate in the force. this is why he doesn't disappear - he is resisting his fate, and is cut down while not at peace.

DarthQuack

12-26-2004, 06:01 PM

I would have to agree. It just seems like Obi Wan and Qui Gon knew they would meet their demise, but at what cost and when was always the question it seemed to me.

Kidhuman

12-26-2004, 08:25 PM

ALso Yoda knew he was going to die as well D-Quack.

stillakid

12-26-2004, 08:57 PM

on both disappearing, and foreknowledge of demise, we have ben kenobi, who, when asked if obi-wan kenobi was dead, he replied

"well, he's not dead. at least, not yet."

obi-wan lifted his lightsaber, at one with the force, in the knowledge that he has set in motion events that will undo the evil in the galaxy. he is resigned to his fate, at the same time as he has fulfilled it..

Um, ... no. That quote you have up there was in response to Luke suggesting that Obi Wan was dead. It was like a joke. You know, funny ha ha. Of COURSE he knew he was going to die someday. EVERYBODY is going to die someday. Trying to tie that comment into the idea that he "foresaw" the duel on the Death Star is maybe the biggest reach I've heard yet. :rolleyes:

qui-gon is told by ani that no one can kill a jedi. he replies,

"i wish that were true." in a whistful tone that denotes a certain sadness. is it sadness at those who have gone before, or at his own demise? so much that he wishes to fight his fate, go against the grain of the jedi and perhaps even the force?

upon swearing to take anakin as his apprentice, qui-gon not only disobeys the jedi council, but changes his fate in the force. this is why he doesn't disappear - he is resisting his fate, and is cut down while not at peace.
Uh, same thing. Qui Gon was just responding to Ani's comment that nobody could kill a Jedi. Nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the vanishing act goes, who knows at this point. It's all conjecture until we see ROTS.

Kidhuman

12-26-2004, 09:14 PM

To me, it seemd Ben and Yoda "gave themselves to the force" rather than be killed. Qui-Gon was murdered, no question about that. Jedi will be murdered, none of this giving in to the force in ROTS me thinks.

The 'Xir

01-03-2005, 02:29 AM

Also, all of you are forgetting Qui-Gon's little moment of calmness while locked within the laser gates! If he had anytime to think that he might die, I think it would be then, instead of at a dinner table; but alas I think all he was doing was getting focused, and calming himself/preserving his energy for the ensuing fight! The non vanishing point is also a good argument that he didn't know he was going to die!
I also think that he is just expressing to Anakin, an inevitability that can exist for Jedi! And although GL is no Poet and I know he didn't intend it; but I like to think the line helps lend substance to Anakins' declaration to Padme in AotC that, "he will even learn to stop people from dying!". Although said in reflection of his mothers' death, once again I think it also is a bit of poetic Irony That Qui-Gon said it("I wish that were so"), and his "chosen one" padawan is now trying to fufill it! :evil:

TheDarthVader

01-04-2005, 01:30 PM

I also think that he is just expressing to Anakin, an inevitability that can exist for Jedi! And although GL is no Poet and I know he didn't intend it; but I like to think the line helps lend substance to Anakins' declaration to Padme in AotC that, "he will even learn to stop people from dying!". Although said in reflection of his mothers' death, once again I think it also is a bit of poetic Irony That Qui-Gon said it("I wish that were so"), and his "chosen one" padawan is now trying to fufill it! :evil:

That post makes a lot of sense... very nice post! You summarized it so nicely. It is poetic irony that qui-gon says that but then is able to continue to live in the spiritual form!

B.
TDV

stillakid

01-04-2005, 01:36 PM

and his "chosen one" padawan is now trying to fufill it! :evil:

How so? Meaning, how does the character of Anakin and/or the other incarnation, Darth Vader, show the audience his efforts to "stop people from dying?" From where I sit, Anakin and Vader both had the exact opposite in mind. Just ask Ozzel. :dead:

The 'Xir

01-07-2005, 03:26 AM

Well to keep within the context of what I laid out previously, it's just in the line he says to Padme," I will even learn to stop people from dying!" Although once again, it was naievely said in remorse of his mothers death, It shows that it's something that he thinks he is powerful enough to control! Just as Lucas had mentioned on DISC 4 of the OT DVD set, "it's Anakins' inability to control the things around him, that ultimately leads to his downfall, and as he loses more control, he seeks more and more power. And it goes from trying to save the ones you love, to thinking that you can control the universe!"

However, all that being said, we haven't seen RotS yet and I just may have been speculating a little! ;) 'Cause we've all implied or speculated at some point, about the tension between Ben, Padme, and Anakin. It only makes sense that if Anakin thinks that Padme is in any dander or is dying, (he won't fail his mother again) so he'll go to any extreme within his power in order to save Her!!! :evil: Can't you just hear the Imperial March blaring in the back of your heads!!! :D :D :D :D :D

As far as Vader is concerned, If Anakin feels he has failed Padme as well, "when that happened the good man that was your father was destroyed", you have to realize that Anakin has now given himself to the darkside, and now is simply tyring to control..well everything! He probably will or has developed a god complex, and inturn acts out judgements upon the universe in order to gain that control that has eluded him, so if something doesn't fit or bend to his will or his liking, why deal with it when he can just simply destroy it and be rid of anything that pains him!

Or

Actually, he may in a way even be giving up, If Anakin feels he has failed Padme as well, he may realize that he can't control everything, and he now just gives himself as a "slave" to the darkside for that is his destiny, "that is the way of things, that is the way of the Force" So his actions are not his own, but the will of the Darkside. "You don't know the power of the Darkside, I must obey"

Who knows, maybe it's a little of both! So much for being clear and concise!

hamsterboy

02-03-2005, 06:07 PM

Back to the question at hand,no Qui-Gon didn't see his own demise. Just remeber what Yoda told Luke about Jedis being able to see the future. It can be done but it's difficult to do because the future is always in motion.

The 'Xir

02-07-2005, 11:38 PM

Wow, I haven't thought about that line in awhile, is it really, "always in motion the future is" or, "Always emotion the future is"

I always thought he said emotion, and that's why it is difficult to see the future, because your hopes/dreams/ and emotions are always getting in the way! Go figure! :ermm:

Slicker

02-08-2005, 02:26 AM

I'm pretty sure it is "emotion". Yoda is trying to see the future of Luke's friends and he's having trouble because he doesn't know how Luke feels about them. Luke has better luck due to the fact that he has feelings or emotions for them and there plight.:)

JediTricks

02-09-2005, 08:11 PM

I'm sorry, did I just step into another dimension? "Always emotion is the future" ... 'the hell? No, the line is clearly "Always in motion is the future" as that's the entire context of what Yoda is saying, that he cannot see for sure whether Leia and Han will die because the future isn't written in stone, things are constantly changing which make the future an unstable landscape, difficult to view for sure. Here's the entire exchange from the script:

LUKE: I saw...I saw a city in the clouds.

YODA: Mmm. Friends you have there.

LUKE: They were in pain.

YODA: It is the future you see.

LUKE: Future? Will they die?

Yoda closes his eyes and lowers his head.

YODA: Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.

LUKE: I've got to go to them.

stillakid

02-09-2005, 08:21 PM

Exactly. That's funny. :) Kinda like that "Olive, the other Reindeer" thing. :p

Slicker

02-09-2005, 08:21 PM

I just checked the script and it's official. I'm an idiot. I can't believe that I've lived my life thinking that line was something different. Can you guys ever see it in yer hearts to forgive me?:cry:

stillakid

02-09-2005, 08:40 PM

I just checked the script and it's official. I'm an idiot. I can't believe that I've lived my life thinking that line was something different. Can you guys ever see it in yer hearts to forgive me?:cry:

Of course! For all "intensive" ( ;) ) purposes, it's not a big deal.

JediTricks

02-09-2005, 09:02 PM

Of course! For all "intensive" ( ;) ) purposes, it's not a big deal.
... says the man who just the other day wrote "beckon call". :p

Slicker, the only reason you are forgiven is because of that hilarous sig line and 'tar, it's funny on so many levels. :D

The 'Xir

02-09-2005, 09:28 PM

Ok so what's my excuse? I know! There is no excuse for me, :D (thought I'd beat you guys to the punch) but yeah I seem to remember now someone else bringing this "in motion" line up before, but I guess I must have dismissed it 'cause I've always thought that it was "emotion". Oh well! :stupid:
I mean JT's explanation of why it is "in motion" makes obvious sense as well, so I guess I can't dismiss it this time! That's gonna be hard though to get used to now when I go back to watch ESB. I mean think about it for...some... 25 years and 300+ viewing later, when I thought I knew every second of that movie it'll be weird to look at it that way. Oh wait, I forgot, I can pretend that I'm just watching a special executive producers edition of the movie! :D ;) :rolleyes: