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Author
Topic: Interesting idea for a thread. (Read 21657 times)

I am a retired Police Officer and was thinking of starting a thread called Ask a Police Officer wondering what your thoughts on this might be. I often run into people while surfing and if the topic comes up of what we do for a living or what we used to do people are surprised to find out that I was a Police Officer for quite some time, following their shock I normally get hit with a couple of questions that they might have been afraid to ask to an Officer in uniform, so why not help the people on this forum that help me with questions I have, interested to hear some feedback.

Say I'm driving down the highway with Lynard Skynard's Free Bird playing on the stereo, when I notice a police car driving up on my bumper. I'm going the speed limit and have my seat belt on. Is it ok for me to give him a fierce brake check to get him off my bumper?

Say I'm driving down the highway with Lynard Skynard's Free Bird playing on the stereo, when I notice a police car driving up on my bumper. I'm going the speed limit and have my seat belt on. Is it ok for me to give him a fierce brake check to get him off my bumper?

Law enforcement officers frequently interact with people who have mental health problems, particularly when serving custody orders for involuntary commitment. What kind of training do police officers receive in regards to assisting people with mental health problems?

What's your opinion of doing away with all local police agencies and replacing them with one national police force? Since the US government currently provides little to no assistance to run local police departments, police agencies in the US vary greatly, mostly depending on their local communities wealth. Whereas the police department where I live can afford to operate unmanned drones, gunshot detectors, and staff thousands of police officers who have training in mental health and other complex issues, an agency in Alabama (just an example) usually runs underfunded, low education levels, and short staffed on antiquated equipment with little training. Doesn't make much sense does it?

Law enforcement officers frequently interact with people who have mental health problems, particularly when serving custody orders for involuntary commitment. What kind of training do police officers receive in regards to assisting people with mental health problems?

In California all Police agencies are governed by P.O.S.T (Police Officers Standard of Training). POST is who indicates what changes should be made for Academy training as well as after Officers graduate. My time with the Police Department we received regular training from the Mental Health Departments as well as our own Psychology Dept. on what to look for when assessing a situation with a mentally challenged or troubled individual. The training Officers are receiving now also involves how to deal with Veterans returning from Iraq & Afghanistan. In the State of California we are allowed to take individuals into custody for a 72 hold under 5150 WIC (Welfare & Institutions Code) to have them evaluated by professionals if certain criteria are met.

What's your opinion of doing away with all local police agencies and replacing them with one national police force? Since the US government currently provides little to no assistance to run local police departments, police agencies in the US vary greatly, mostly depending on their local communities wealth. Whereas the police department where I live can afford to operate unmanned drones, gunshot detectors, and staff thousands of police officers who have training in mental health and other complex issues, an agency in Alabama (just an example) usually runs underfunded, low education levels, and short staffed on antiquated equipment with little training. Doesn't make much sense does it?

I am 100% against a National Police force and 100% against using unmanned drones to servile as just a general practice. My time with the Police Department we received plenty of money from the US Government to hire new Officers, buy new equipment and received various forms of training. I am not sure why the Police Dept. in the area you live is so undermanned I am guessing that is poor budgeting on their part.

The thought of a national police force is a scary ass proposition to consider if you ask me , and good luck with the less government / more states rights groups when debating this issue . If you wanted to start a bunch of shit with some of those crackpot state militia's I cant think of better way to take a swing at the hornets nest .

I'm a progressive and for the most part am not frightend by federal programs but I don't think I would consider this a progressive idea .

I say a BIG HELL NO to a national police force. Local police are able to do their jobs based on the needs of the community they serve (well, with some state and federal guidelines thown in, no doubt).My father is a retired police commander in the city I grew up in, my brother is a former police officer and my step-brother is a current officer. I grew up around the local police (and had a few run ins with them).Additionally -- (STEREOTYPE ALERT) -- I worked at a local donut shop while in high school that was down the street from the police station and they all frequented the shop (stereotypes are often based in truth) -- I got to know them all. There were some "questionable" ones, but for the most part they were all dedicated and concerned for the welfare of the citizens.To this day -- I respect the police -- am not afraid when they are behind me on the road, as I tend to obey traffic laws at this stage of my life. They are all their to help and protect.Mike

I say a BIG HELL NO to a national police force. Local police are able to do their jobs based on the needs of the community they serve (well, with some state and federal guidelines thown in, no doubt).My father is a retired police commander in the city I grew up in, my brother is a former police officer and my step-brother is a current officer. I grew up around the local police (and had a few run ins with them).Additionally -- (STEREOTYPE ALERT) -- I worked at a local donut shop while in high school that was down the street from the police station and they all frequented the shop (stereotypes are often based in truth) -- I got to know them all. There were some "questionable" ones, but for the most part they were all dedicated and concerned for the welfare of the citizens.To this day -- I respect the police -- am not afraid when they are behind me on the road, as I tend to obey traffic laws at this stage of my life. They are all their to help and protect.Mike

I remember the 1st time I was involved in warrant service. For those who do not know warrants are served early in the morning because unless given prior approval by a Judge you cannot serve a warrant at night. So we arrived at the roll call room at 3am to serve the warrant at 4am and there must of been 6 dozens donuts laid out for us to eat, I laughed to myself.

I remember the 1st time I was involved in warrant service. For those who do not know warrants are served early in the morning because unless given prior approval by a Judge you cannot serve a warrant at night. So we arrived at the roll call room at 3am to serve the warrant at 4am and there must of been 6 dozens donuts laid out for us to eat, I laughed to myself.

I know, right!I do have to say though -- they really were great to know. They never had to pay for their coffee and donuts (owner's rule). On my last shift before I left for college -- I got a $500 gift from the police -- a collection taken without my Dad's knowledge. That was 30 yrs ago, so $500 was a pretty big final "tip" for me.

I know, right!I do have to say though -- they really were great to know. They never had to pay for their coffee and donuts (owner's rule). On my last shift before I left for college -- I got a $500 gift from the police -- a collection taken without my Dad's knowledge. That was 30 yrs ago, so $500 was a pretty big final "tip" for me.

Mike

That is a lot of money today, 30 years ago that was a BUNCH of $$$. We used to get discounts everywhere we went, when you get a discount you better tip really really well.

Is it legal for police officers to accept discounts? I know in NYC it's not. Sounds like a can of worms if you ask me.

I know many gas stations give discounts or free items, because they want police there late at night. And, I've known of a few officers getting huge discounts at high-end apartments--apartments they could not afford on a police salary, especially being single without a 2nd income. I guess the thinking is they want an officer or two living there. I have no idea whether the department sanctions this, or whether it is done on the DL.

My partner gets a 10% firefighter discount at a few fast food restaurants. 10% off a Blizzard. That's what I'm talking about!

I think my apartment complex offers a steep discount for police officers who are willing to either A) park a marked car in the parking lot and/or B) offer to be on call sometimes in addition to the regular security.

Personally I am glad. Back in the day, my place used to have some seedy stuff going on in the parking lot on weekends.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Did I advocate for a national police force anywhere in this thread, Oh Wise Bocker? Hopefully you can pinpoint the phrase where I did so.

Paranoid much? Mike was using what you said as an example of why a national police force is not such a good idea, not as proof that you were advocating for a national police force. Maybe you need more coffee this morning?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Paranoid much? Mike was using what you said as an example of why a national police force is not such a good idea, not as proof that you were advocating for a national police force. Maybe you need more coffee this morning?

Oh, I'm sure if it becomes necessary we can make those donuts illegal for police forces without making a national police force. It's a slippery slope as we can already see in this thread. Those donuts morph into discounted apartments, then they're taking bribes to overlook the meth manufacturing lab in Apartment 1-B, and soon we have Mexico-scale corruption necessitating a drug war domestically, financed by the Chinese because... well, you know raising taxes is rather unseemly.

At least those wretched New Yorkers have some sort of ethics and have put an end to this behavior, setting a standard for the nation along with lowering smoking rates and the consumption of high-fructose corn syrup.

So what freebies do the police get in bustling Douglas? I bet it's those filthy pickled eggs at the pub.

btw, in some ways (but not all) the US already has a national police force. Just look at the history of the US Marshals Service. How do you think those horrible Yankees were able to tame the illegal actions of Southerners during the civil rights era abuses? Or crack down on smugglers during Prohibition, when every local police force was corrupt (from a form of free donuts no less!). It's a pretty well established fact that when the going gets really tough, the federal government will step in with a full assist from the judiciary and there's not a fucking thing you local yokels can do about it.

So what freebies do the police get in bustling Douglas? I bet it's those filthy pickled eggs at the pub.

I honestly haven't a clue. The police generally keep a low profile here except during TT and to a lesser extent, during the Gran Prix. I've been mulling this over for the past 15 minutes and I can't recall ever seeing a copper in a restaurant, bakery (we are doughnut-shopless) or cafe - not while in uniform, anyway.

The only time I can remember seeing a uniformed copper in a pub is at the weekends (nights) when they do a walk-thru of most of the pubs, but they don't stop to chat, much less eat filthy pickled eggs. (I haven't seen a jar of pickled eggs on a bar in YEARS. I have a feeling EU health and safety may have outlawed them.) They do the walk-thru thing at the weekend just to remind people that they're lurking around town and will be there in a flash if a fight breaks out or if someone decides to take a piss in a doorway.

In Peel, our police station boasts a sergeant , an inspector, 13 constables and 4 special constabulary (volunteers). They still wear those silly helmets - I think we're the last police force in the UK to still have them.

The inspector gets to wear a normal hat. Oh, and we're the only one who have the silly helmets in white. All the other forces used to use navy blue or black.

Anyway, I don't know much of what goes on in Douglas. I rarely get out of Peel these days. Sometimes if it weren't for my quarterly trips to Liverpool for hiv clinic, I'd probably go six months or more at a time without leaving the West.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I wish! I haven't had a car in over fifteen years (can't afford one) and is one of the reasons I rarely get out of Peel. I have a bus pass, but there's not much in Douglas (or elsewhere) that I can't get here.

Although saying that, a mate just rang me wanting me to accompany him to the island's one and only DIY store, on the outskirts of Douglas, to advise him on what paint to buy. Such excitement!

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Yes, it's a great little car. There aren't too many still in existence though.

I'm near you in not having my own car in 21 years, but I've been the designated driver of a few boats I've worked on because I was the only crew member who wasn't banned from driving. I always got the car by default. I didn't own them though.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Is it legal for police officers to accept discounts? I know in NYC it's not. Sounds like a can of worms if you ask me.

I have been out of town for a few days I will try and review and see what questions I missed.

Technically it is not within Department policy for any employee Civilian or Sworn to accept a discount of food or other items but it happens every day anyway. 7/11’s give out free coffee & water because they want Officers hanging out in their parking lot at night. I remember Best Buy used to sell us any product in their store for cost which means you got to purchase products before the markup. When Best Buy still had that discount for Officers I purchased a brand new Stove, Refrigerator & stacked washer/dryer including the extended 3 year warranty for under $1,000 retail it was probably $3,500.

I think my apartment complex offers a steep discount for police officers who are willing to either A) park a marked car in the parking lot and/or B) offer to be on call sometimes in addition to the regular security.

Personally I am glad. Back in the day, my place used to have some seedy stuff going on in the parking lot on weekends.

There is still a program in place through HUG where Officers can purchase homes for 50% the only requirement is the house has to be not in the greatest of areas and you have to live there for 3 years before selling. I have heard about Officers getting discounts for Apartment Complex as well. I am not sure I would want the management Office knowing what I did for living let alone the neighbors.

Do horny people of all genders and sexualities often try to seduce police officers? How often would you say police officers are sexually harassed by the public?

It happens everyday. I have been hit on by men & women of all ages. I even had a woman grab my junk once. When it comes down to trying to get out of a ticker and/or going to jail people will do just about anything.

I have been out of town for a few days I will try and review and see what questions I missed.

Technically it is not within Department policy for any employee Civilian or Sworn to accept a discount of food or other items but it happens every day anyway. 7/11’s give out free coffee & water because they want Officers hanging out in their parking lot at night. I remember Best Buy used to sell us any product in their store for cost which means you got to purchase products before the markup. When Best Buy still had that discount for Officers I purchased a brand new Stove, Refrigerator & stacked washer/dryer including the extended 3 year warranty for under $1,000 retail it was probably $3,500.

It happens everyday. I have been hit on by men & women of all ages. I even had a woman grab my junk once. When it comes down to trying to get out of a ticker and/or going to jail people will do just about anything.

Soliciting a law enforcement officer for sex just seems so incredibly stupid I am surprised it happens so often.

I do not believe that is corruption at all, you are simply taking advantage of a benefit that is in place. Is it corruption for Verizon to give 25% off of a phone bill? Or a restaurant to give you 50% that is in a high crime area? Especially when the waitress knows he/she is going to get a 50%-60% tip? I believe the word corruption should be used when someone is getting a bribe to look the other way.

Soliciting a law enforcement officer for sex just seems so incredibly stupid I am surprised it happens so often.

Gymrat,

At all of our Police Station ATM's are located in the lobby so people come and go all time of day/night. A good looking man or woman may come to use the ATM to or from the Club and often hookup with Officers right there in the Station and sometimes get it on inside of the Police Station, Police car or parked along side the Police Station. If you think Officers are bad Fire Fighters are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY worse.

I do not believe that is corruption at all, you are simply taking advantage of a benefit that is in place. Is it corruption for Verizon to give 25% off of a phone bill? Or a restaurant to give you 50% that is in a high crime area? Especially when the waitress knows he/she is going to get a 50%-60% tip? I believe the word corruption should be used when someone is getting a bribe to look the other way.

Except that police officers are not private company employees. They are government employees who are tasked with providing service to everyone. The reason this sort of thing is ALREADY Illegal is what are these businesses that are giving you free shit expecting? A faster police response when they call? What about the business that pays its taxes but cant afford to give you free shit, do they get less service?

Comparing police to verizon or any other private business employee isnt valid. This is why what you are describing IS illegal in most places and why the punlic generally distrusts the police.

Where were u a police officer anyway? Im sure they wouldnt agree with you.

The most common argument for the "no gratuity" policy is the slippery slope argument. The acceptance of even the smallest benefit will start an inevitable slide toward serious corruption. The only difference in accepting a cup of coffee or $1000 (in unmarked twenties) is the degree of wrongness. Once an officer gets in the habit of receiving things for free, it is easier to accept a large bribe.

Except that police officers are not private company employees. They are government employees who are tasked with providing service to everyone. The reason this sort of thing is ALREADY Illegal is what are these businesses that are giving you free shit expecting? A faster police response when they call? What about the business that pays its taxes but cant afford to give you free shit, do they get less service?

Comparing police to verizon or any other private business employee isnt valid. This is why what you are describing IS illegal in most places and why the punlic generally distrusts the police.

Where were u a police officer anyway? Im sure they wouldnt agree with you.

It isn’t Illegal in the eyes of the Law it is a violation of Department Policy the two are VERY different. If you were ever to take a bribe that is Illegal in the eyes of the Law and a violation of Department policy as well. What is the business expecting in return? My answer would be in hopes that an increased lev el of Police presence keeps the bad guys away. As for faster Police response that may happen on small Department where they are not boggled down with call after call but a BIG Police Department in a BIG City a faster response time just is not going to happen. If someone does not give a discount when you are eating, getting coffee or water you still go there you just know you are not going to get a discount and just like the place that give a discount if and when they call the Police the Police will come as fast as calls allow us to. Each call is a given a number and that number indicates how fast we will respond to a call with violent crimes receiving top priority. I compared Verizon because they give discounts to Officers as well via the cell phone bill of 25% every month, so is Verizon bribing the Police Dept?

I was a Police Officer in South California with a sworn force of over 10,000.

Except that police officers are not private company employees. They are government employees who are tasked with providing service to everyone. The reason this sort of thing is ALREADY Illegal is what are these businesses that are giving you free shit expecting? A faster police response when they call? What about the business that pays its taxes but cant afford to give you free shit, do they get less service?

Comparing police to verizon or any other private business employee isnt valid. This is why what you are describing IS illegal in most places and why the punlic generally distrusts the police.

Where were u a police officer anyway? Im sure they wouldnt agree with you.

It isn’t Illegal in the eyes of the Law it is a violation of Department Policy the two are VERY different. If you were ever to take a bribe that is Illegal in the eyes of the Law and a violation of Department policy as well. What is the business expecting in return? My answer would be in hopes that an increased lev el of Police presence keeps the bad guys away. As for faster Police response that may happen on small Department where they are not boggled down with call after call but a BIG Police Department in a BIG City a faster response time just is not going to happen. If someone does not give a discount when you are eating, getting coffee or water you still go there you just know you are not going to get a discount and just like the place that give a discount if and when they call the Police the Police will come as fast as calls allow us to. Each call is a given a number and that number indicates how fast we will respond to a call with violent crimes receiving top priority. I compared Verizon because they give discounts to Officers as well via the cell phone bill of 25% every month, so is Verizon bribing the Police Dept?

I was a Police Officer in South California with a sworn force of over 10,000.

The most common argument for the "no gratuity" policy is the slippery slope argument. The acceptance of even the smallest benefit will start an inevitable slide toward serious corruption. The only difference in accepting a cup of coffee or $1000 (in unmarked twenties) is the degree of wrongness. Once an officer gets in the habit of receiving things for free, it is easier to accept a large bribe.

I could not disagree with this anymore. A Police Chief is a Political position and a Police Chief will say what the public wants to hear. A Police Chief takes the view of the Mayor, The Police Commission and the public and not very often the view of the Officer. 99.9% of all of Police Chiefs rose up the ranks from recruit to Police Officer and they without a doubt accepted a gratuity so would this not make them a hypocrite? Are 99.9% of the Police Chiefs accepting bribes? Probably not, It is just the nature of the beast and the way things are and the way things will be for many years to come.

I have been out of town for a few days I will try and review and see what questions I missed.

Technically it is not within Department policy for any employee Civilian or Sworn to accept a discount of food or other items but it happens every day anyway. 7/11’s give out free coffee & water because they want Officers hanging out in their parking lot at night. I remember Best Buy used to sell us any product in their store for cost which means you got to purchase products before the markup. When Best Buy still had that discount for Officers I purchased a brand new Stove, Refrigerator & stacked washer/dryer including the extended 3 year warranty for under $1,000 retail it was probably $3,500.

So we have police officers, expected to uphold the law, doing something illegal. Fascinating.

So we have police officers, expected to uphold the law, doing something illegal. Fascinating.

Illegal is against the Law, taking advantage of a program that is in affect long before you came along is working the system in your benefit that the Department frowns upon is a Violation of Department policy. Chances are when you need an Officer to respond to your home or place of business when you call we will show up that is just the way it works. If Officer, Fire Fighters & Military personal are getting things for free is a shock to you I am not sure what to tell you.

Putting your job in danger for a donut doesn't sound particularly bright to me. Don't know what to tell you if you think that's wise.

You would not be risking your job accepting a gratuity is not a terminal offense. As I stated not sure how many more times I should state it, anyone on the Department from the Head of the Police Commission to the Mayor to the Chief of Police who says that have never accepted a gratuity is a liar and if enforced they are not only a liar but a hypocrite as well.

Soliciting a law enforcement officer for sex just seems so incredibly stupid I am surprised it happens so often.

But, there are police officers who do this as well. There have been several cases over the years here of officers trading sex for letting an offense go. My cousin is a state police officer and I suspect he's done it, but no proof. He's "joked" about doing it.

There was a case here a few years back, where undercover officers were going to massage parlors and busting them for prostitution. The only problem was the officers were getting their rocks off first. They claimed they thought they needed to go to completion for hard evidence, pun intended. They knew better, but wanted to partake before making the arrests.

Unlike Miami Vice, Vice units do not go undercover living on yachts and bust drug dealers. Vice units are referred to as the Misdemeanor units because they handle prostitution, massage parlors & ABC violations. For an Officer to go fully nude at a massage parlor that actually need prior approval from the Area Captain. When that Officer is full nude they do at times go further than just getting a massage paid for by City dollars. I have heard of it happening before when an Officer went too far and said there was no violation.

I have zero problem with citizens filming Police Officers. If the Officer is doing their duties currently they have nothing to worry about. When an Officer is using force to take a suspect into custody the definition of that force is the minimal amount of force needed to overcome the resistance of the suspect, if an Officer is following those guidelines they have nothing to worry about. When on a traffic stop it is Yes Sire, No Sir, and Yes Ma’am & No Ma’am.

When on a traffic stop it is Yes Sire, No Sir, and Yes Ma’am & No Ma’am.

So in essence, I should take the role of a child and treat them like they're my parent? I strongly disagree. As a person who has had my rights violated by police officers on more than one occassion, I can tell you that is one aspect about them that I dislike.

So in essence, I should take the role of a child and treat them like they're my parent? I strongly disagree.

The police should be the ones referring to the citizens as sir and ma'am not the other way around. The citizen is your boss, the police are government employees. A government "by the people and for the people."

The cameras in the Police vehicle are only forward facing and are not always recording, the camera only starts to record when the red lights & siren are activated otherwise you would have 12 hour & 45 minutes of film footage to search through for every incident. As for the cameras on the individual Officer I have heard of them but you will not see those on large Departments because simply there is not enough $$$ to make it happen.

You say there are roughly 2,200+ Agencies using these cameras, well there are roughly 588,000 Police Departments in the United States so what does that work out percentage wise?

As referring to Yes sir, No Sire, Yes Ma’am & No Ma’am I was referring to an Officer toward the citizen not the citizen toward the Officer.

I find this thread interesting..... not sure why people look at police as "the enemy"? Yes, there are some corrupt cops -- just like there are corrupt >>>>fill in the blank<<<<. It is unfortunate and they should be reported and removed. The majority of police officers do their jobs to help keep the peace -- they certainly don't do it for the sky-high salary. Given the danger in their jobs, I think they are grossly underpaid.

The police should be the ones referring to the citizens as sir and ma'am not the other way around. The citizen is your boss, the police are government employees. A government "by the people and for the people."

Umm, everytime that I have ever been stopped -- I was referred to as "Sir" -- I also "sir"'d right back. Nothing wrong with being polite. Oh -- and you are NOT their boss -- that is a crazy view of this. So, by your logic -- everyone paid with tax dollars should kowtow to you as their boss?People look for reasons to disrespect the police because they represent authority and people don't like authority figures ............. that is until they need one.

I find this thread interesting..... not sure why people look at police as "the enemy"? Yes, there are some corrupt cops -- just like there are corrupt >>>>fill in the blank<<<<. It is unfortunate and they should be reported and removed. The majority of police officers do their jobs to help keep the peace -- they certainly don't do it for the sky-high salary. Given the danger in their jobs, I think they are grossly underpaid.Umm, everytime that I have ever been stopped -- I was referred to as "Sir" -- I also "sir"'d right back. Nothing wrong with being polite. Oh -- and you are NOT their boss -- that is a crazy view of this. So, by your logic -- everyone paid with tax dollars should kowtow to you as their boss?People look for reasons to disrespect the police because they represent authority and people don't like authority figures ............. that is until they need one.

Mike

Mike,

I agree with you 100%. I pay taxes so does that mean I am my own boss? You work to Serve & Protect the people. During my time with the Police Department 3 Officers I knew were killed in the line of duty, several others were killed that I did not know but were still on the same Department. You do get paid nicely but not all that great to see the horrible things you see on a daily basis. It is not like you work for the Fire Dept. and called to get a cat out of tree, on the Police Dept. you are called when the you know what has hit the fan and hit it hard. I did not care how pissed someone was at me, what names they called me during a traffic stop it was always sir & Ma’am, sometimes being polite gets people you are dealing with even more pissed because they cannot get a rise out of you. 7 time out of 10 when you are pulled over your attitude dictates in what direction that traffic stop is going to go. It dictates if you are getting a ticket or being let go with a warning. I used to have a private policy that any hard working citizen that had the right attitude got away with a warning no matter the violation, the wrong attitude always results in a violation/ticket.

So in essence, I should take the role of a child and treat them like they're my parent? I strongly disagree. As a person who has had my rights violated by police officers on more than one occassion, I can tell you that is one aspect about them that I dislike.

I've been in the same situation - more than once. Yeah, yeah, yeah - I get it...."it's so dangerous and lay their lives down, etc etc." Unfortunately, every encounter I've ever had with a police officer - save one minor one - has resulted in more harm than good for me, and they've acted like power obsessed assholes.

I have nothing but anxiety and distrust whenever I see one, and want nothing to do with them. Wish it wasn't so, but that's how it is.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I've been in the same situation - more than once. Yeah, yeah, yeah - I get it...."it's so dangerous and lay their lives down, etc etc." Unfortunately, every encounter I've ever had with a police officer - save one minor one - has resulted in more harm than good for me, and they've acted like power obsessed assholes.

I have nothing but anxiety and distrust whenever I see one, and want nothing to do with them. Wish it wasn't so, but that's how it is.

I never had a bad exp with an Officer, never arrested, never given a ticket and always waved at Officers as they drove by before I came on the Police Dept. I am not saying this is the case in your case but criminals attend to attract cops and have bad exp with Officers again not saying that is you, it just happens to be that way 95% of the time.

There are just sooooooo many examples of bad cops that its hard to say "it's just some bad apples."

From the many examples of small business having to fork over $$ as protection (implicit or as the many free donut or discounts at best buy examples that have discussed ---which by the way is the same exact thing the mafia does), to the many examples of police brutality (again woefully common all across the US and internationally) to the mundane things they do all the time. Not to mention the treatment of minorities and gay people.

My favorite example of police misconduct is the "blue bear sticker." Are you all familiar? Pay attention to other vehicles on the freeway and notice how many people have small stickers of a blue bear on the back window. Police officers and their family members put them on their car to identify themselves as police so other police officers don't give them tickets.

There are just sooooooo many examples of bad cops that its hard to say "it's just some bad apples."

From the many examples of small business having to fork over $$ as protection (implicit or as the many free donut or discounts at best buy examples that have discussed ---which by the way is the same exact thing the mafia does), to the many examples of police brutality (again woefully common all across the US and internationally) to the mundane things they do all the time. Not to mention the treatment of minorities and gay people.

My favorite example of police misconduct is the "blue bear sticker." Are you all familiar? Pay attention to other vehicles on the freeway and notice how many people have small stickers of a blue bear on the back window. Police officers and their family members put them on their car to identify themselves as police so other police officers don't give them tickets.

And you wonder why there is distrust of the police? Come on

Yes "ALL" cops treat us gays so badly -- that is why I had 3 of them at my wedding.

And........ there is nothing all that odd about someone giving a professional courtesy to another. Happens all the time, in many professions. is it right -- probably not, but that's the way it is. For every example you can come up with about a bad cop -- I am sure there are hundreds of examples of them helping others. So -- I can't undo anyone's bad experiences, but to label a whole profession as "suspect" over a few (and in the total scheme it IS a few - not "woefully common" at all) is what is really bizarre to me. The fact that you can't even admit that the police do good things says volumes.I'm done with this thread now, given that you are throwing my father and brothers into your generalization -- I'm apt to get myself a timeout.

One last thing -- this attitude is exactly what led to the shameful treatment of soldiers following Vietnam - bad apples -- absolutely -- all of them, hell, no -- not even close.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of police officers are great people. It is unfortunate when the bad apples dominate the view of officers. Our force isn't a huge one here, compared to other cities. But, there seems to be a story per month about an officer doing something illegal and using their position for personal gain, or for revenge on an girlfriend or someone they just don't like.

I've mentioned here before how I grew up with an alcoholic father, who abused my mom. When I was about 5, we were taken away. A police officer took us to a children's home. For some, they may actually blame the officer. But, I didn't. On the way there, he took my brother and me to McDonald's and bought us a Happy Meal. I will never forget that. He seemed to be stalling taking us there, and got us something to eat. All we got at the home was soup. We were there for a few days, until my aunt came to get us.

In fact, I've been thinking about trying to see if documents still exist, so I could find out his name and whether he is still on the force here, or lives here. I would like to thank him for his kindness. I remember he was very young. I would say in his 20's, so he very well could still be on the force. I just have no idea where to start. I suppose I could write a letter with our names and the approximate date. Perhaps someone would be willing to take the time to search the files.

Anyone who refers to the Police Dept in the same light as the mafia in my book is a misguided fool.

I just read a book by Michael Corbitt, with Sam Giancana, where that mob boss (Giancana) got Corbitt into police work in a Chicago suburb, to help the mob. It was a tell-all book, almost better than Donnie Brasco (but not better).

When I was a strung out heroin addict, I worked in a strip bar as a (you guessed it) stripper. There were police that came in there different times during the night. As long as we sexually serviced them, they looked the other way concerning the drug dealing and prostitution that they knew went on there. A sheriff in the county I live in (Ralph DeMeyer) got sent to federal prison for taking money from a madame to protect multiple whore houses. This was years ago.

I can't tell you, when I was on the streets and yes, a drug addict, how many times my friends were assaulted raped, robbed etc., and because they were shady characters the police wouldn't even make a report.

I'm not saying that all police are bad. I've met some reputable ones. Maybe it's just the town I live in. One of the last police officers to get killed in the line of duty got killed because he was robbing drug runners. Maybe it's because this area is so close to Chicago, the seediness spilled over. Who knows.

As I said, I've met good cops. But there are bad ones also, sometimes it seems more than good. Maybe in certain areas.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 07:45:40 AM by BT65 »

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

I just read a book by Michael Corbitt, with Sam Giancana, where that mob boss (Giancana) got Corbitt into police work in a Chicago suburb, to help the mob. It was a tell-all book, almost better than Donnie Brasco (but not better).

When I was a strung out heroin addict, I worked in a strip bar as a (you guessed it) stripper. There were police that came in there different times during the night. As long as we sexually serviced them, they looked the other way concerning the drug dealing and prostitution that they knew went on there. A sheriff in the county I live in (Ralph DeMeyer) got sent to federal prison for taking money from a madame to protect multiple whore houses. This was years ago.

I can't tell you, when I was on the streets and yes, a drug addict, how many times my friends were assaulted raped, robbed etc., and because they were shady characters the police wouldn't even make a report.

I'm not saying that all police are bad. I've met some reputable ones. Maybe it's just the town I live in. One of the last police officers to get killed in the line of duty got killed because he was robbing drug runners. Maybe it's because this area is so close to Chicago, the seediness spilled over. Who knows.

As I said, I've met good cops. But there are bad ones also, sometimes it seems more than good. Maybe in certain areas.

I have never once heard of an incident close to this taking place on the Police Dept in which I worked for. I worked Narcotics for quite sometime and never once not one time even heard of a rumor of any story like this happening.

As for not taking reports from shady characters is a HUGE sign of false police work. As a Police Officer you are on the street for 8 hours a day when a prostitute and/or drug addict is on the streets 24 hours a day so they have the intelligence you need. We used to give out food and/or money to street folk and get all types of intelligence on outstanding murders, who was holding and where we could find wanted individuals.

I will agree that in any Agency including the Federal Government that are evil people with no morals but to paint the whole lot of them as bad is just misguided.

I tend to not really trust the Government even though I served in various aspects of the Government Military & Police Department. I tend to lean more towards what the Government tells us to do as Conspiracy than truth.

In as much, a lot of people do not trust the police in the same manner. And you were actually part of this group and you didn't even trust?

I've often mentioned in these forums that my father and grandfather were retired deputies and my uncle is our local police chief. I have 2 other uncles who also serve.

I still don't quite understand the point of this thread. I'm just glad the OP threw it out there to support all of us who have no idea how our judical system works.

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

In as much, a lot of people do not trust the police in the same manner. And you were actually part of this group and you didn't even trust?

I've often mentioned in these forums that my father and grandfather were retired deputies and my uncle is our local police chief. I have 2 other uncles who also serve.

I still don't quite understand the point of this thread. I'm just glad the OP threw it out there to support all of us who have no idea how our Judaical system works.

What is an OP?

Correct I do not trust the Government. I do not trust a two party system. I do not believe our vote counts. I do not trust the word of the Government when they tell us one thing and it later proved to be a false statement with the intent to mislead.

In the Military I was a part of Operations that one would deem as shady in nature that I wish I could elaborate on.

As you stated I was trying to help to let others see it from a different aspect but that seemed to have backfired and only brought out the haters & secret criminals.

You must have worked in a utopian police department. Because in the city I live in, there are very corrupt officers. I do not paint "all" police as corrupt, but many of them are. I totally get street people knowing what's going on, I knew a lot when I was on the streets, then a couple years ago when working with the homeless, I found out a lot about what was going on.

But I can tell you, when I was on the street and one of us thought about reporting a crime, well, it was just disappointing. If it was a hooker, well, the cops said they "deserved" it, if it was a drug addict, they also "deserved" it. It was totally pointless to report crime while being a drug addict, much less a prostitute.

I admit that not all police are horrible, but you need to admit that not all police are good, upstanding. Of course that happens in most every profession. But to say and actually believe, all police are honest, is just naive.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 09:33:26 AM by BT65 »

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

You must have worked in a Utopian police department. Because in the city I live in, there are very corrupt officers. I do not paint "all" police as corrupt, but many of them are. I totally get street people knowing what's going on, I knew a lot when I was on the streets, then a couple years ago when working with the homeless, I found out a lot about what was going on.

But I can tell you, when I was on the street and one of us thought about reporting a crime, well, it was just disappointing. If it was a hooker, well, the cops said they "deserved" it, if it was a drug addict, they also "deserved" it. It was totally pointless to report crime while being a drug addict, much less a prostitute.

I admit that not all police are horrible, but you need to admit that not all police are good, upstanding. Of course that happens in most every profession. But to say and actually believe, all police are honest, is just naive.

I agree that in any profession that are bad apples. I took an oath to Protect people from the scum of Earth and on the street the 98% of the people who work to keep food on the table by being honest are terrorized by the 2% of street criminals. We had a saying in our unit 'We intimidate those who intimidate others.' I will firmly admit I would not care what happened to that 2%. I never knew an Officer or Detective that took a bribe or money that did not belong to them. When you use the word 'many' it makes it seem like there are more corrupt Officers than good ones.

I agree that in any profession that are bad apples. I took an oath to Protect people from the scum of Earth and on the street the 98% of the people who work to keep food on the table by being honest are terrorized by the 2% of street criminals. We had a saying in our unit 'We intimidate those who intimidate others.' I will firmly admit I would not care what happened to that 2%. I never knew an Officer or Detective that took a bribe or money that did not belong to them. When you use the word 'many' it makes it seem like there are more corrupt Officers than good ones.

Hi Remy:I do appreciate you starting this thread....That said, I had to bold something you wrote above that belies what is a major issue.... a cop's view that they are protecting people from the "scum of the earth" goes completely against the American judicial system which states that a person is "innocent until proven guilty."

When I was arrested and spent time in Miami Dade County jail - I had not been convicted - I was just arrested - In fact, to this day, I do not have conviction on my record..... however, the conditions at the jail, the way I was treated by officers, and correctional officers, was based on the presumption of guilt - not innocence. An innocent person would never be treated the way I was - and a person who was presumed innocent would never be referred to as "the scum of the earth." I'm just sayin'

I do my best to respect officers - truly do.... I do have issue when one rolls up to a stop light and does not want to wait like everyone else and puts on his/her lights to go through the light and then cuts their lights off once they get to the other side..... A sense of entitlement and that the law does not apply to them. Or parking whereever they choose - when, if I did the same thing, I would be given a ticket for it.

The last time I was pulled over, I was profiled.... I had my partner in the car and we were going to get his scripts.... Cop pulled me over - for absolutely no reason. He never gave a reason. Asked if he could search the car; Asked if either of us had ever been arrested (which we had) and asked what for.... after he conducted his search - he let us go ---No apology, no reason for the stop..... So, incidents like this can cloud one's view of officers - just like the incidents that officers experience can cloud their view of the overall public.

As with anything, there are those who will abuse the system....

But, one thing I am here to tell you ---- the concept of innocent until proven guilty in the US - is a fallacy.

Hi Remy:I do appreciate you starting this thread....That said, I had to bold something you wrote above that belies what is a major issue.... a cop's view that they are protecting people from the "scum of the earth" goes completely against the American judicial system which states that a person is "innocent until proven guilty."

When I was arrested and spent time in Miami Dade County jail - I had not been convicted - I was just arrested - In fact, to this day, I do not have conviction on my record..... however, the conditions at the jail, the way I was treated by officers, and correctional officers, was based on the presumption of guilt - not innocence. An innocent person would never be treated the way I was - and a person who was presumed innocent would never be referred to as "the scum of the earth." I'm just sayin'

I do my best to respect officers - truly do.... I do have issue when one rolls up to a stop light and does not want to wait like everyone else and puts on his/her lights to go through the light and then cuts their lights off once they get to the other side..... A sense of entitlement and that the law does not apply to them. Or parking whereever they choose - when, if I did the same thing, I would be given a ticket for it.

The last time I was pulled over, I was profiled.... I had my partner in the car and we were going to get his scripts.... Cop pulled me over - for absolutely no reason. He never gave a reason. Asked if he could search the car; Asked if either of us had ever been arrested (which we had) and asked what for.... after he conducted his search - he let us go ---No apology, no reason for the stop..... So, incidents like this can cloud one's view of officers - just like the incidents that officers experience can cloud their view of the overall public.

As with anything, there are those who will abuse the system....

But, one thing I am here to tell you ---- the concept of innocent until proven guilty in the US - is a fallacy.

Edited for typos - coffee hasn't kicked in yet....

I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence.

When I say we were protecting Law abiding citizens from the 2% means just that. We patrolled the streets and as they say nothing really good happens after 2am. You would look for the 2% breaking into cars, hanging out in areas they did not belong. We would look for Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color that could mean only one thing that they were hunting for each other. We would patrol homes and look down driveways looking for people just walking around.

The fact of Guilt or Innocence is not left up to me it is left up the Courts, the D.A. & C.A. that is their job not mine. My job was to ensure the hardworking public, the families that were raising that were raising their children could safely walk those children to school without having to worry about getting hit by a stray bullet. I had to tell one to many family members that their son, daughter, mother or father had been killed.

Where I worked we dealt with no persons in custody so I could not comment on the situation you encounter while in custody. We would simply make the arrest, prepare the report and hand the individual off to the jailer for processing.

As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. I disagree with it if it is solely based on race but agree with it if as above stated something looks way out of place like a van load of folks dressed in the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time of night. As for the Officer searching your car the Supreme Court allows Officers to search the wing span of the driver meaning anywhere the driver can reach while seated in the driver’s seat with or without permission. If the Officer wants to order everyone out of the vehicle on a traffic stop onto the sidewalk the Supreme Court has ruled that is allowed. An Officer can ask you any question he or she wants to as in have you been arrested? My favorite question was to ask a gang member in general conversation if they were still on probation or parole, the gang member probably does not remember me so they are not sure if I know and chances are they would answer honestly. If they said they were that consensual encounter now became a legal detention and search because as we all know as a condition of probation or parole who give up right to search and seizure and can be searched every day at any time during the remainder or your suspended sentence.

People are also under the assumption that upon arrest an Officer must read the individual their rights, which is not the case. If you are arrested for robbery, I can ask you questions about your involvement in a murder as long as I don’t ask you about the robbery without reading you your rights. If you volunteer to come into the Station after being released from jail I can question you about a crime you committed without reading you your rights because you are free to go. These are things taught in the Academy. As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Let's take a look at how your words support some of the issues that some posters have with some law enforcement officers: (I apologize in advance - formatting got messed up.... don't arrest me for that )

Your words: The issue:I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence If this is the case see issue on next linewe were protecting Law abiding citizens This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocencehanging out in areas they did not belong. Once again, subjective - who are "they"Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvonpredominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color Martin? And, only mean one thing? that could mean only one thing Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?My job was to ensure the hardworking public So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not workingthe families that were raising their children I better have childrenWe would simply make the arrest There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes ones life. Don't believe me? Get arrested - particularly for having done nothing wrong As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race but agree "solely on race" "something looks outwith it if as above stated something looks way out of place "dressed in the wrong color"like a van load of folks dressed in the wrong color in the "wrong neighborhood" "wrong timewrong neighborhood at the wrong time of night. of night" ----- Alll subjectivewing span of the driver Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan?while seated in the driver’s seat with or without permission. Which explains why officers say stay in the car.... to their benefit to searchAn Officer can ask you any question he or she wants to And I can refuse to answerMy favorite question Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too muchAs they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. And abuse of it by officers is not either

Edit: Also the above is not personal against you - but rather points out the certain frame of philosophy that exist and perhaps in inherant in many who enter law enforcement or who stay in it for a while and are indoctrinated into a certain mindset - and is one of the reasons why issues arise or some of the public has the perception it does.....

Can we speak with you, NO. If placed under arrest give no statement and request to speak with an Attorney.

If an Officer is called to your house they have a right to enter (i.e. Loud Party, Domestic Violence) but other than that they are not allowed to enter your residence, if asked if they can come in answer is NO.

If asked to give permission to search the trunk of your vehicle, do not give it. A Officer can only search your trunk 1. If you give him/her permission, 2. They have a warrant or 3. If your vehicle is being impounded.

If an Officer wants you to go into the Station to give a statement response should be 'Am I under arrest' if the answer is NO, DON'T GO.

Never EVER think speaking to Police is in your best interest because it is not, do not help their investigation by opening your mouth and giving voluntary statements no matter what the case or charge.

Let's take a look at how your words support some of the issues that some posters have with some law enforcement officers: (I apologize in advance - formatting got messed up.... don't arrest me for that )

Your words: The issue:I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence If this is the case see issue on next linewe were protecting Law abiding citizens This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocencehanging out in areas they did not belong. Once again, subjective - who are "they"Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvonpredominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color Martin? And, only mean one thing? that could mean only one thing Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?My job was to ensure the hardworking public So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not workingthe families that were raising their children I better have childrenWe would simply make the arrest There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes ones life. Don't believe me? Get arrested - particularly for having done nothing wrong As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race but agree "solely on race" "something looks outwith it if as above stated something looks way out of place "dressed in the wrong color"like a van load of folks dressed in the wrong color in the "wrong neighborhood" "wrong timewrong neighborhood at the wrong time of night. of night" ----- Alll subjectivewing span of the driver Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan?while seated in the driver’s seat with or without permission. Which explains why officers say stay in the car.... to their benefit to searchAn Officer can ask you any question he or she wants to And I can refuse to answerMy favorite question Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too muchAs they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. And abuse of it by officers is not either

Edit: Also the above is not personal against you - but rather points out the certain frame of philosophy that exist and perhaps in inherant in many who enter law enforcement or who stay in it for a while and are indoctrinated into a certain mindset - and is one of the reasons why issues arise or some of the public has the perception it does.....

I tried to decipher the above and could not.

During my tenure with the Police Department I worked Patrol where everyone starts, I also worked Gangs & Narcotic Surveillance. I worked in a very BAD area, if you are suggesting that Hispanics driving around a Black area at night or vice versa were visiting their friends that could not be any further from the truth. The area in which I worked people do not leave a 10 block radius from their house because of the 2%. White do not go to certain areas, Hispanics do not go to certain areas and Blacks do not go to certain areas wearing certain colors especially at nighttime in force (groups). When this happens there is no question they are either lost or need to be directed to a safer area so they do not become a victim or hunting they are not visiting friends. I do not think out of the 15+ years I worked the streets did I ever run into a group stated above that were visiting their friends at 2am dressed in red in a blue neighborhood.

I in fact enjoyed my job and enjoyed helping people but I never abused my power. I have seen the aftermath of horrible incidents and the wave of destruction left behind when the dust settles.

I am not sure the points you were attempting to raise in regards to the wingspan rule.

OK, this was on the local news (my best friend told me about it). A cop had a warrant for someone and went to his last known address. In fact, two officers went. It was in an poverty stricken area. The two officers didn't even knock on the door, they just barged in. There was an older lady there and a teen. The officers went after the teen, and he headed for his room. The officers tasered the teen and kept saying "quit resisting." Turned out, the teen was not the person the cops had a warrant for. Shit like this happens often here. Maybe you just didn't notice it happening on your force.

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Sorry about the formatting of the previous post... Hopefully, the layout below will be more conducive to seeing why some might have issues with perceptions/perspectives of law enforcement officers.... As said before, I think sometimes there are officers who by very nature of entering this line of work are disposed towards these perceptions and there are other cases where the experiences they have while on the force can cause some of these perspectives to come about - and to even seem justified...

Your words: I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence The issue: If this is the case see issue on next line

Your words: we were protecting Law abiding citizens The issue: This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocence

Your words: hanging out in areas theydid not belong. The issue: Once again, subjective - who are "they?”

Your words: Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color The issue: Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvon Martin?

Your words: And, that could mean only one thing ? The issue: Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?

Your words: My job was to ensure the hardworking publicThe issue: So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not working

Your words: the families that were raising their children The issue: I better have children

Your words: We would simply make the arrest The issue: There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes one’slife. Don't believe me? Get arrested -particularly for having done nothing wrong

Your words: As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. The issue: There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race; " something looks way out of place” "dressed in the wrong color” “wrong neighborhood" "wrong time”-- All subjective

Your words: wing span of the driver The issue: Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan? I have been subject to officers searching the whole car – without cause – and far outside “wingspan.”

Your words: My favorite question The issue: Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too much

Your words: As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The issue: And abuse of it by officers is not either

and....... the generalizations run both ways. I can give you proof of many circumstances where cops have saved lives. I am sorry that you have run into some bad ones, but that doesn't make 'em all so.

Mike

OK, that is understood. The part I took exception to was when you said people who have problems with police are people who have problems with accepting authority-- people of authority which I take as meaning police officers.

It's probably true for some. I am sure it's a small percentage though.

I grew up in a predominately African American neighborhood in Miami, specifically Opa Locka. I have been questioned in my own front yard as to why I was there. And, I've been asked to provide identification simply for being white in my own front yard. After a while, you grow tired of it-- the police car suddenly stopping in front of your house when they see you. It makes you feel less than..

Even in my 40's while living in Sebring, Florida I had the very same issues. But I would tell them I didn't have to show them my ID because they didn't have probable cause to ask for it. Yeah, follow me because my wife is black and I'm white...

Perhaps I'm a little bitter, but I wish no harm to them. And no, I don't think all of them are bad....

Have I had good experiences with police officers? Yes, of course I have... When I was Baker Acted in April of 2011 the officer who picked me up treated me with such dignity. He and I spent about 3 hours together. About one hour at the station, sitting next to him with no cuffs on while he did some paperwork, and the rest of the time was a two hour car ride to the facility. I'll never forget as I entered the facility how he patted me on the back, and told me--"Thomas I wish you all the luck man, I hope you can see that that you have a lot to live for".

When you are at your lowest, close to taking your own life.. It's amazing how the words from a stranger can lift your spirits. Certain people are meant to do the work they do. He was meant to be a police officer.

I wish I could say that for all of them.

Also Mike, I apologize for the Mr. ImSoIntelligent remark... it was uncalled for.

Sorry about the formatting of the previous post... Hopefully, the layout below will be more conducive to seeing why some might have issues with perceptions/perspectives of law enforcement officers.... As said before, I think sometimes there are officers who by very nature of entering this line of work are disposed towards these perceptions and there are other cases where the experiences they have while on the force can cause some of these perspectives to come about - and to even seem justified...

Your words: I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence The issue: If this is the case see issue on next line

Your words: we were protecting Law abiding citizens The issue: This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocence

Your words: hanging out in areas theydid not belong. The issue: Once again, subjective - who are "they?”

Your words: Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color The issue: Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvon Martin?

Your words: And, that could mean only one thing ? The issue: Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?

Your words: My job was to ensure the hardworking publicThe issue: So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not working

Your words: the families that were raising their children The issue: I better have children

Your words: We would simply make the arrest The issue: There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes one’slife. Don't believe me? Get arrested -particularly for having done nothing wrong

Your words: As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. The issue: There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race; " something looks way out of place” "dressed in the wrong color” “wrong neighborhood" "wrong time”-- All subjective

Your words: wing span of the driver The issue: Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan? I have been subject to officers searching the whole car – without cause – and far outside “wingspan.”

Your words: My favorite question The issue: Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too much

Your words: As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The issue: And abuse of it by officers is not either

Your words: I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence The issue: If this is the case see issue on next line

Your words: we were protecting Law abiding citizens The issue: This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocence.(A Law abiding citizen would be someone who is trying to do the right thing it is that simple)

Your words: hanging out in areas they did not belong. The issue: Once again, subjective - who are "they?” (They are the 2%, the gangster on the street & the drug dealers)

Your words: Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color The issue: Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvon Martin? (Who is Trayvon Martin?)

Your words: And, that could mean only one thing ? The issue: Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?(There is zero chance and when I say zero chance I mean Z-E-R-O chance a person dressed in red would be visiting a friend is a blue neighborhood. The area I worked is absolutely segregated it was very easy to spot when teams were hunting for each other)

Your words: My job was to ensure the hardworking publicThe issue: So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not working(Hard working means you are not part of the 2%)

Your words: the families that were raising their children The issue: I better have children(Families that are trying to live honestly, go to work, be able to walk to the store, take care of their parents)

Your words: We would simply make the arrest The issue: There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes one’slife. Don't believe me? Get arrested -particularly for having done nothing wrong (An arrest is pretty simple what happens after the arrest is not my problem and/or concern, I did not put the person in that situation I am just cleaning up the mess following).

Your words: As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. The issue: There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race; " something looks way out of place” "dressed in the wrong color” “wrong neighborhood" "wrong time”-- All subjective(As long as it is not solely based on race I am totally fine with it)

Your words: wing span of the driver The issue: Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan? I have been subject to officers searching the whole car – without cause – and far outside “wingspan.”(Wingspan is ANYWHERE the driver can reach when seated in the driver seat, glove compartment, back of passenger seat, rear seat just not the trunk without a warrant).

Your words: My favorite question The issue: Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too much(As I stated I enjoyed my job and miss it at times but do not miss the stress that comes along with the position)

Your words: As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The issue: And abuse of it by officers is not either(Ignorance of the Law is a term used by the Courts).

OK, this was on the local news (my best friend told me about it). A cop had a warrant for someone and went to his last known address. In fact, two officers went. It was in an poverty stricken area. The two officers didn't even knock on the door, they just barged in. There was an older lady there and a teen. The officers went after the teen, and he headed for his room. The officers tasered the teen and kept saying "quit resisting." Turned out, the teen was not the person the cops had a warrant for. Shit like this happens often here. Maybe you just didn't notice it happening on your force.

On the Department I worked for several safeguards were in place to make sure this did not happen but even with the safeguards in place it still happened from time to time. If you have a warrant that means all evidence you currently have has been reviewed by a Judge who agrees and signs off on the warrant for service. I could care less if it a rich or poverty stricken area that really means nothing. The teen headed for his room was he running away? Who does that?

Thanks for the responses Remy - As I said, nothing personal.... just some observations....As in any field, there are the good and the not so good (although, officers are, and should be, held to a higher standard - by nature of the profession).

I actually have a few friends who are officers...One recently got out of the line of work because he tired of some of the mentality of other officers.

As Skeebo pointed out, there are those officers who really do go above and beyond and have not lost the ability to connect with other humans and their lives....

I actually have only had a few experiences with the law (mostly traffic related) - fortunately for me, when the court date has been set for a Friday afternoon, they very rarely show up and the ticket gets dismissed

I learned a while ago (at least in regards to traffic tickets) - always plead not guilty.... it usually ends with no points, no school, and only the mandatory court costs.... not the original fine + costs, + traffic school + points on the license....

Thanks for the responses Remy - As I said, nothing personal.... just some observations....As in any field, there are the good and the not so good (although, officers are, and should be, held to a higher standard - by nature of the profession).

I actually have a few friends who are officers...One recently got out of the line of work because he tired of some of the mentality of other officers.

As Skeebo pointed out, there are those officers who really do go above and beyond and have not lost the ability to connect with other humans and their lives....

I actually have only had a few experiences with the law (mostly traffic related) - fortunately for me, when the court date has been set for a Friday afternoon, they very rarely show up and the ticket gets dismissed

I learned a while ago (at least in regards to traffic tickets) - always plead not guilty.... it usually ends with no points, no school, and only the mandatory court costs.... not the original fine + costs, + traffic school + points on the license....

Can you tell I was going to be an attorney at one point in life?

You should never plead guilty for anything….LOL You should always say you are not guilty even if they have you on video.

It is never too late to go to law school.

I left the Department for the Interdepartmental Politics, the stress & more $$$ in the private sector. As I stated in the beginning of this post the main goal of this post is to tell those who I share this Poz status with to totally understand their rights and when to push the issue and when to stay silent. A majority of Police Departments in the States are banking on the fact that you do not know your rights; do not know when an Officer can search or what reasonable suspicion & probable cause are.

As in any field, there are the good and the not so good (although, officers are, and should be, held to a higher standard - by nature of the profession).

What about doctors, by nature of their profession. Life and death. Sickness and health. Pain and comfort. What about elementary school teachers, we trust them with our kids! What about engineers? Or Air traffic controllers... I was in a near miss air crash over Newark. I heard through the grapevine the controller involved is a very bad seed.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

What about doctors, by nature of their profession. Life and death. Sickness and health. Pain and comfort. What about elementary school teachers, we trust them with our kids! What about engineers? Or Air traffic controllers... I was in a near miss air crash over Newark. I heard through the grapevine the controller involved is a very bad seed.

3 Types of Police Encounters, and a fourth scenario when they knock on the door.

Remain Calm

(1) Conversation, Level of Proof, none

This is where the cop is just chatting, don't be fooled. He is working to build a case. My response; Am I being detained or am I free to go? If you're free to go LEAVE ASAP! If you are being detained, step 2

(2) Detained Level of Proof, reasonable suspicion

My response, Officer, I am going to remain silent, I would like to see a lawyer, I do not consent to any searches.

(3) Arrest Level of Proof, probable cause

My response, remain silent until lawyer arrives, do not sign anything without the lawyers advice.

(4) At your Door. If the police knock on the door, ask for a warrant, do not invite the police in, remain in the house behind a locked door. I talk to police at my door through a locked screen door. Without the warrant, they dont come in.

We have a nice scandal developing in the Philly police department. Last month a video went viral of a police officer punching a woman in the face during the Puerto Rican Pride Parade. It was so bad that the commissioner fired the officer. Then what happens? The police union decides to have a $30/person fundraiser for the officer.

We have a nice scandal developing in the Philly police department. Last month a video went viral of a police officer punching a woman in the face during the Puerto Rican Pride Parade. It was so bad that the commissioner fired the officer. Then what happens? The police union decides to have a $30/person fundraiser for the officer.

That is why Captains and above are no longer members of the Union because Captain and above you become a staff Officer. The Officer pays dues and Union 99.99% of the time will defend the Officer because that is exactly what they paid their dues for, right, wrong or indifferent.

This is in order to receive Federal $$$ they must undergo Federal oversight but nothing really changes because as a Police Officer you are always under Federal oversight.

So far history says no that a local Police Dept cannot protect the citizen civil rights? Your credibility just flew out the window.

Not quite, the US Justice Department was called into Seattle by the community due to the long standing misconduct within the Seattle Police Department which ended with police shooting an killing a man who was carving a totem pole on the side of the road. Google John T. Williams. The justice department gave the city a choice, agree to federal oversight or get sued.

As far as history, look at the last 100 years in the US. We have a history of civil rights violations from the abuses in the south, to lapd, to Cincinatti, Chicago, New Orleans, the list goes on a on and on to the most recent case where the Justice Department had to step in during the Trayvon Martin case. If you take a look at US history during the past 100 years its local law enforcement that has lost all credibility.

You know for someone who was a former cop you are pretty uneducated on the subject.

Not quite, the US Justice Department was called into Seattle by the community due to the long standing misconduct within the Seattle Police Department which ended with police shooting an killing a man who was carving a totem pole on the side of the road. Google John T. Williams. The justice department gave the city a choice, agree to federal oversight or get sued.

As far as history, look at the last 100 years in the US. We have a history of civil rights violations from the abuses in the south, to lapd, to Cincinatti, Chicago, New Orleans, the list goes on a on and on to the most recent case where the Justice Department had to step in during the Trayvon Martin case. If you take a look at US history during the past 100 years its local law enforcement that has lost all credibility.

You know for someone who was a former cop you are pretty uneducated on the subject.

I know I said I was out of this thread, but I can't let this asinine take on law enforcement stand unchallenged.

You, darling, do not speak for ALL. The vast majority of the public do have faith in the police. It's easy to take the bad examples as all that happens (and there are ample examples of the bad), because that is what gets highlighted in the national media. However, for every example of a bad cop or a city with some less than stellar ethics, there are scores of examples in local papers that attest the lives and property saved by the police.

What pisses me off the most about your "contributions" to this thread is that they resemble the barrage of political ads that are hitting my area. All about bits and pieces of info, often out of context, rarely complete and all skewed to buttress your particular take. What you say here, may be true, but you simply refuse to say anything positive about the law enforcement community -- you can't be so daft as to actually believe they do no good at all? You are trying to use the lowest to paint them all -- on that I have to call BULLSHIT!

Just what do you think this country would be like without the local police??

No where in this thread have I or anyone else said that all police officers, or all police agencies are bad. Nor have I made the assumption that I speak for anyone other than myself.

What I have said is that I do not agree with the statement "there are just some bad apples" as an excuse for the history in this country of police misconduct. It has been quite a history also.

We (the United States) has a long history of police misconduct with regards to civil rights and corruption. I do not agree that it is just media bias. The amount of intervention the US justice department has done, in just the last 20 years shows its not just one sensational story but more of a pattern of abuses.

I also think the experiences that many people have shared on this thread speaking to how they were mistreated by the police add validity to that.

I'm sorry my opinion pisses you off.

As far as what I think the police force should look like. Thats a good question and I dont begin to think I have all the answers but I do support more federal control. I just dont think local governments have demonstrated they can handle the task.

I haven't watched the news or read a newspaper in years probably why I never heard of this story. I did not read the article but I am guessing the hispanic guy shot the black guy and the world ended. By the looks of the back of his head he will beat any charges that he may face solely based on the way the law is written, GBI (Great Bodily Injury) is defined by stitches and if you have a legal right to be where you are when then shooting takes places with the fear of GBI you can use deadly force and for that reason and that reason alone if they filed charges he will walk.

No where in this thread have I or anyone else said that all police officers, or all police agencies are bad. Nor have I made the assumption that I speak for anyone other than myself.

What I have said is that I do not agree with the statement "there are just some bad apples" as an excuse for the history in this country of police misconduct. It has been quite a history also.

We (the United States) has a long history of police misconduct with regards to civil rights and corruption. I do not agree that it is just media bias. The amount of intervention the US justice department has done, in just the last 20 years shows its not just one sensational story but more of a pattern of abuses.

I also think the experiences that many people have shared on this thread speaking to how they were mistreated by the police add validity to that.

I'm sorry my opinion pisses you off.

As far as what I think the police force should look like. Thats a good question and I dont begin to think I have all the answers but I do support more federal control. I just dont think local governmebts have demonstrated they can handle the task.

Our Presidents are liars and corrupt so I guess there are bad apples in every bunch. You have the right to your opinion that is what makes this Country great but if you never wore the badge and simply commenting from the outside looking in then you are well misinformed. The way you write statements lets one believe that there are more bad than good, the same could be said about almost every job.

The officers were trying to arrest him, even though he wasn't the person named on the warrant, and he was trying to get away from the officers, all the while telling them he wasn't their man. Would you let the police arrest you falsely?

The officers were trying to arrest him, even though he wasn't the person named on the warrant, and he was trying to get away from the officers, all the while telling them he wasn't their man. Would you let the police arrest you falsely?

Don't forget, here in Hoosierville, citizens can use deadly force against officers who go unauthorized into someone's home.

I had not heard of that Law that kind of seems insane.

My advice if you are being arrest lawfully or unlawfully is not fight or run and to take it up with your Attorney, the Criminal Courts & the Civil Courts when you sue. When you run and/or fight it only makes you look dirty in the eyes of the Law. When I worked gangs there used to be a saying you run, get caught & want to fight the only thing that is going to beat you to the Hospital in the Ambulance you are in. Officers are paid to do a job and not paid to lose fights.

My advice if you are being arrest lawfully or unlawfully is not fight or run and to take it up with your Attorney, the Criminal Courts & the Civil Courts when you sue. When you run and/or fight it only makes you look dirty in the eyes of the Law. When I worked gangs there used to be a saying you run, get caught & want to fight the only thing that is going to beat you to the Hospital in the Ambulance you are in. Officers are paid to do a job and not paid to lose fights.

The law Betty is talking about is no more insane than an officer (or anyone for that matter) thinking they can enter my home without at least announcing themselves..... This would probably be one of the only times when I would be a proponent of the stand your ground law.... A police officer picks my home by accident and thinks he/she can enter - I will shoot first and the cop can take it up with the law (judge) later. Why should I have to let them in my home (unlawfully) and me take it up with the law..... and guess what... I bet any jury in the world would side with me...

Oh and your comment about someone who runs from an officer ending up in an ambulance as cops "are paid to do a job and not lose fights" speaks volumes about just the things that have been brought up on this thread regarding SOME law enforcement officers being worse than the criminals they are after.....

The law Betty is talking about is no more insane than an officer (or anyone for that matter) thinking they can enter my home without at least announcing themselves..... This would probably be one of the only times when I would be a proponent of the stand your ground law.... A police officer picks my home by accident and thinks he/she can enter - I will shoot first and the cop can take it up with the law (judge) later. Why should I have to let them in my home (unlawfully) and me take it up with the law..... and guess what... I bet any jury in the world would side with me...

Oh and your comment about someone who runs from an officer ending up in an ambulance as cops "are paid to do a job and not lose fights" speaks volumes about just the things that have been brought up on this thread regarding SOME law enforcement officers being worse than the criminals they are after.....

I did say, run/caught & wants to fight, not run/caught, run/caught I will give the person the dignity they deserve, run/caught and wants to fight that is a WHOLE different story.

If you can live with shooting someone on an accident more power to you. I have actually pulled a trigger and hit what I was aiming at and that is something you have to live with everyday for the rest of your life second guessing if there is anything you could of done differently to prevent it from happening. It is is a horrible thing to have to live with because once that hammer drops there is no taking the bullet back.

As for lawfully or unlawfully that was meant as a generalization for arrests, you fight an Officer you will lose and lose badly and those are charges you do not want to be facing. If you are willing to take your chances with a jury and see what happens when you freedom is on the line when it is something that could of been prevented is ludicrous.

I will give this one example that happened to me 'Radio Call' of man outside of apartment complex selling narcotics. We arrive and come in back of apartment complex and low and behold drug deal going on right in front of us. We ID ourselves and the guy bolts. We chase him, catch him and the fight is on. The guy is juiced on PCP the smell of ether was potent. It is my partner and I against this guy juiced, straight out of prison and yolked BIG TIME. The fight goes on for maybe 3 minutes, down to the ground, back to feet, run, tackle back & forth. At the end the guy goes to hospital, my partner dislocated knee and me with broken ribs. The case gets to the D.A. the D.A. drops all charges except fighting us. The guy is offered 5-7 years in prison, says 'nope I want to take it to the box (JURY)' found guilty and sentenced to make sentence 25 to life. I imagine he regrets not going with the 5-7, instead 3rd strike and a BAH BYE.

As I’m still not entirely sure the original intent of this thread, I’ve only been passively participating. I guess I recognized that this would be one of those that should have died a premature death but because of its nature, just opened a box of emotions.

A relative new member sneaks in a controversial thread that most us recognize will cause heated words. I’m now witnessing so many here that I care about and respect allowing this ignorant thread to cause hostility.

The OP recently joined and then started this to support us and offer his expertise?

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

As I’m still not entirely sure the original intent of this thread, I’ve only been passively participating. I guess I recognized that this would be one of those that should have died a premature death but because of its nature, just opened a box of emotions.

A relative new member sneaks in a controversial thread that most us recognize will cause heated words. I’m now witnessing so many here that I care about and respect allowing this ignorant thread to cause hostility.

The OP recently joined and then started this to support us and offer his expertise?

I have actually pulled a trigger and hit what I was aiming at and that is something you have to live with everyday for the rest of your life second guessing if there is anything you could of done differently to prevent it from happening. It is is a horrible thing to have to live with because once that hammer drops there is no taking the bullet back.

That's my entire point, HE doesn't have a history here. Coming from a huge family of military and law enforecment family, I find most of his views idiotic and will not allow him the benefit of raising my blood pressure one point.

I personally will never allow someone who completed a six week academy course teach me the realities of anything.

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

As I’m still not entirely sure the original intent of this thread, I’ve only been passively participating. I guess I recognized that this would be one of those that should have died a premature death but because of its nature, just opened a box of emotions.

A relative new member sneaks in a controversial thread that most us recognize will cause heated words. I’m now witnessing so many here that I care about and respect allowing this ignorant thread to cause hostility.

The OP recently joined and then started this to support us and offer his expertise?

That is exactly why I started the thread to simply answer questions ones might have in regards to this realted to Police but out came the worms.

He was a 17 year old black male who was walking back from a convenience store after buying some Skittles and some tea. The only reason he was followed and cornered was because he was a black male.

I'm sure by your comment above you view the world as a better place when things like this happen.

Typical pig, oink oink!

As I said I have not heard about this case, not read about this case, watched no news coverage about this case BUT when a juvenile Black male is killed by someone of another race the world does end. When Blacks kills Blacks it is horrible and underreported. I would have some questions in regards to how that Hispanic got got bloody. I was simply stating the way the law is written is GBI (Great Bodily Injury) is defined by stitches and if you can argue GBI and had a legal right to be exactly where you were when that shooting takes place then that shooting will be justified, you might face charges but you will not be convicted because the law is their for your protection. If that hispanic guy was not legally in the place he was when that shooting took place then that would be a different story but that is not the case.

At this point I don't even care to read his history. How many doughnuts did you have to eat to drown your sorrows?

I did serve in the Military for several years Active duty and several years in the Reserves.

I have eaten my share of doughnuts in my lifetime but if I was to guess the last time I had one was maybe a year ago. I am quite addicted to surfing, running, yoga and eating Organic so I think making pastries a habit would go against everything I believe in.

That is exactly why I started the thread to simply answer questions ones might have in regards to this realted to Police but out came the worms.

From my history here in these forums, you might want to calm it down a bit because there are some strong personalities here. I was initially confused why anyone would need to know what the police in our society do but after reading all the posts, everyone has their own viewpoints and I see nothing but a thread meant to incite.

I too didn't make a great appearance in these forums, but that was because I was AIDSY sick, but don't make the mistake of thinking.....oh well, I hope you got it by now.

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

That's my entire point, HE doesn't have a history here. Coming from a huge family of military and law enforcement family, I find most of his views idiotic and will not allow him the benefit of raising my blood pressure one point.

I personally will never allow someone who completed a six week academy course teach me the realities of anything.

The Academy is 7 months, I also rec'd my Masters of Science in Criminal Justice basically for promotion purposes only but left the Department to take advantage of the private sector.

From my history here in these forums, you might want to calm it down a bit because there are some strong personalities here. I was initially confused why anyone would need to know what the police in our society do but after reading all the posts, everyone has their own viewpoints and I see nothing but a thread meant to incite.

I too didn't make a great appearance in these forums, but that was because I was AIDSY sick, but don't make the mistake of thinking.....oh well, I hope you got it by now.

If you scroll up you will see the first initial posts were questions and answers, that was the intent of the thread. When invalid points are brought up I think it is only fair to address them. I do not expect anyone to accept my view points as their own.

My advice if you are being arrest lawfully or unlawfully is not fight or run and to take it up with your Attorney, the Criminal Courts & the Civil Courts when you sue. When you run and/or fight it only makes you look dirty in the eyes of the Law. When I worked gangs there used to be a saying you run, get caught & want to fight the only thing that is going to beat you to the Hospital in the Ambulance you are in. Officers are paid to do a job and not paid to lose fights.

The teen was not fighting, nor running since he was in a house; he was simply trying to get to his bedroom, all the while telling the cops they had the wrong person.

Are you saying that by his attempting to go to his room to stop a false arrest, that justifies the officers tasing him??

And here's the thing, I've seen it happen multiple times. If a cop wants to arrest someone, they will come up with charges, whether or not those charges are justified. A while back they sent 3 cops to (different) prisons because they were meat eaters, surely you're familiar with that term. They were selling drugs they were busting other people for. They would take so much out before they turned the drugs in as evidence, and sell them.

We really don't know your background. You say nothing dishonest ever happened in your department. You were either blind, or taking part and don't want to admit it.

Another thing, when giving advice on certain "laws," you do know laws differ from state to state, and county to county. For instance, the county I live in, a person has to be arrested 3 times for shoplifting (criminal conversion) before it becomes a felony. One county over, the very first time, even if it was just a pack of gum, it's a felony when someone attempts to steal something. I realize there are similarities in laws, but there are also differences.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:56:36 AM by BT65 »

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Correct years, when I took an early retirement from the Police Dept. I stopped watching, reading and/or listening to murder, death, kill on the news or in the newspaper. I had seen enough first hand during my time with the PD.

My home is within walking distance to the Beach. I have quite a few pets so my free time is either spent with them or surfing, practicing yoga, skateboarding, beach cruising, cooking, creating art in my garage and volunteering with Beach cleanup organizations. At home I do not have a television nor do I have internet access. I do have a work cell phone but I do not own one of my own. The only computer I have is for work and the only time I am on my computer is when I am at work and basically killing time.

I have no desire to hear about what is going on outside of my circle of friends & family. I do not believe in facebook and all that jazz.

There is a great song by one of favorite artists: Well, you win:It's your show now,So what's it gonna be?

Cause peopleWill tune in;How many train wrecksDo we need to see?

BeforeWe lose touch, ohAnd we thought this was low...

Well, it's bad,Getting worse, ohWhere'd all the good people go?

I've been changing channels,I don't see themOn the T.V. shows

Where'd all the good people go?We've got heaps and heapsOf what we sow

They got this,And that,With a rattle-a-tat

Testing -1, 2Man, whatcha gonna do?

Bad news,Misused -Got too much to lose

Gimmie some truth nowWho's side are we on?

Whatever you say -Turn on the boob tube,I'm in the mood to obey

So lead me astrayAnd by the way, now -Where'd all the good people go?

I've been changing channelsI don't see themOn the T.V. shows

Where'd all the good people go?We've got heaps and heapsOf what we sow

Sittin 'round,Feelin far away,

yeah

So far away,But I can feel the debris

Can ya feel it?

You interrupt meFrom a friendlyConversation

To tell me how greatIt's all gonna be

You mightNoticeSome hesitation

'Cause

What's important to youIs not important to me

Mm mm mm mm...

Way downBy the edgeOf your whole reason

Well, it's beginning to showAnd all I really wanna know isWhere'd all the good people go?

I've been changing channelsI don't see themOn the T.V. show

Where'd all the good people go?We got heaps and heapsOf what we sow

(Where'd all the good people go?)They got this,And that,With a rattle-a-tat

Testing -1, 2Man whatcha gonna do

Bad newsMisusedGimmie some truth

You got too much to lose(Where'd all the good people go?)Who's side are we on?

The teen was not fighting, nor running since he was in a house; he was simply trying to get to his bedroom, all the while telling the cops they had the wrong person.

Are you saying that by his attempting to go to his room to stop a false arrest, that justifies the officers tasing him??

And here's the thing, I've seen it happen multiple times. If a cop wants to arrest someone, they will come up with charges, whether or not those charges are justified. A while back they sent 3 cops to (different) prisons because they were meat eaters, surely you're familiar with that term. They were selling drugs they were busting other people for. They would take so much out before they turned the drugs in as evidence, and sell them.

We really don't know your background. You say nothing dishonest ever happened in your department. You were either blind, or taking part and don't want to admit it.

Another thing, when giving advice on certain "laws," you do know laws differ from state to state, and county to county. For instance, the county I live in, a person has to be arrested 3 times for shoplifting (criminal conversion) before it becomes a felony. One county over, the very first time, even if it was just a pack of gum, it's a felony when someone attempts to steal something. I realize there are similarities in laws, but there are also differences.

I was not there nor were you, we are both commenting on a situation that has been dissected & then reported.

I do not know what the Use of Force policy is for that Police Dept. but the Police Dept. in which I worked for that would not constitute the use of a Taser. On the Dept. I worked for the Use of the Taser was only for aggressive / combative or above; aggressive/combative is fighting stance or actually fighting.

As for the statement of False arrest, these are the facts:

Anyone that is being arrested by a police officer who feels it is wrongful can resist arrest. The person being wrongfully arrested can tell the officer that it is wrongful. Once that statement is made, the officer has to demand that the person present evidence that the arrest if wrongful. If evidence presented proves that the arrest is wrongful then the officer cannot lawfully arrest the person any longer. If no evidence is presented then the person being arrested must cooperate with police entirely. The resistance of arrest cannot be violent or harmful to the officer in anyway.

Once the arrest has been made, because there was no evidence presented, then the claim can be made again in the presence of a lawyer. Not all courts will allow the suspect to prove their claim because of the fear that the person will flee the area.

I have never heard the term meat eaters, I do not pretend that corrupt Police Officers do not exist I am saying that the unit in which I worked consisted of 30 guys. During that time the majority of the time is spent just you and your partner. I never observed anyone plant evidence or steal money.

As for Laws being different, I agree with that but they are basically the same and the attempt was to answer questions regarding such. The elements might be a tad different but what is a traffic violation in California is usually the same in Florida, was is Robbery in New York is usually the same in Oregon.

remy, i think you started this thread with good intentions. unfortunately some feathers got ruffled. some feelings were too sensitive, and a couple of your statements neatly encapsulate the undercurrent of tension that many people feel towards the police. and not sure where you're going with the song lyrics.

you lost me with your 2% line. the problem with that is its subjective to your viewpoint. you don't get to decide who is in the 2% of the population that its ok to treat like scum. i profile right into that 2%, cops don't seem to like me. never mind that i'm a military veteran.

its been my experience that a citizen exercising their rights in a police encounter is going to be challenged in a confrontational way.

remy, i think you started this thread with good intentions. unfortunately some feathers got ruffled. some feelings were too sensitive, and a couple of your statements neatly encapsulate the undercurrent of tension that many people feel towards the police. and not sure where you're going with the song lyrics.

you lost me with your 2% line. the problem with that is its subjective to your viewpoint. you don't get to decide who is in the 2% of the population that its ok to treat like scum. i profile right into that 2%, cops don't seem to like me. never mind that i'm a military veteran.

its been my experience that a citizen exercising their rights in a police encounter is going to be challenged in a confrontational way.

The 2% figure is a term used by the City Council, the Mayor, The Police Chief, Community Activists & Officers. I do not believe you are part of the 2%. I do not believe you are selling drugs on the street, breaking into cars, homes, schools etc. that is the 2%. People assume that areas like South Central L.A. are areas of Los Angeles where if you walk down the street you will be robbed or something worse, the fact is those areas are occupied by hard working people raising families that are terrorized by the 2%. The 2% have gang injunctions filled against them and if they are on probation or parole are stopped, searched, questioned and if in violation arrested. When dealing with these people who self-admit to being gang members there is a zero tolerance policy meaning if there is a violation they will either get a ticket or go to jail 100% of the time.

As for the song lyrics, that is just a song that addresses why that artist also a fellow surfer no longer watches TV and/or listen to the news.

Just out of curiosity can you be a cop and be HIV positive? What we should do is change the arcane drug laws in America. Then maybe we wouldn't have the most prisons and prisoners in the whole wide world.

Just out of curiosity can you be a cop and be HIV positive? What we should do is change the arcane drug laws in America. Then maybe we wouldn't have the most prisons and prisoners in the whole wide world.

You can be HIV+ and still be an Officer. You do not have to disclose to anyone and in some cases it is considered on duty related incident and will be covered by the Dept. 100% for the rest of your life.

As for the drug laws, I agree with 100%, the laws need to be changed, mandatory sentences need to removed. It is easier for someone underage to buy Marijuana or Cocaine than it is to buy cigarettes or alcohol and that is just insane. I support the legalization of all narcotics but that is a death sentence for a politician so chances are it will never happen.

Some reports indicate that 1/3 of the Mexican economy is supported by illegal drugs funds funneling back into the Country. If we were to legalize all narcotics in the United States and cut off the flow of drugs from South to North the United States would have a massive amount of people illegally crossing from Mexico to United States as the Mexican economy collapses. I am very close to the border and a war is taking place there every day. Innocent people are being slaughter and something needs to be done ASAP. I believe legalization is the only course of action we have left.

The City in which I worked you couldn’t arrest someone for possession of Marijuana. The Watch Commander of Area Captain would never allow it.

I have never arrested anyone for simple possession of Marijuana.

I have arrested Gangsters for Possession for sales when I was working narcotic surveillance many years ago but that was exactly the job and really had no choice in the matter. Upon them being arrested and seeing some of the sentences handed down changed my view on ever doing that again. The last time I came across a Gang member who had a large quantity of Marijuana, I knew, he knew that he was in deep doo doo and the only way to get out of that HOT water was to give us someone BIGGER which he did and he was let go.

How is the stuff you're smoking right now? Is it that primo stuff I read about in High Times?

I do not use, I am a supporter of those who do. As of California resident I can state that getting a Rx card in this State is very easy but I do not believe anyone should have to possess a card to smoke something is a plant that was put on this Planet for a reason.

I do not use, I am a supporter of those who do. As of California resident I can state that getting a Rx card in this State is very easy but I do not believe anyone should have to possess a card to smoke something is a plant that was put on this Planet for a reason.

If you wanna get technical.... you did say you didn't use, right? I suppose this is what you call a Clinton moment.

I am not silly enough to believe that the posts and/or responses cannot be reviewed by other members as I have searched out others posts as well. I should of phrased it better, I have nothing to hide about myself to anyone who wants to know. If you ask me any question I will never remain silent.

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

I am very close to the border and a war is taking place there every day. Innocent people are being slaughter and something needs to be done ASAP. I believe legalization is the only course of action we have left.

Please, please, please say you don't live in San Diego. And if by some chance you do, how would you know this based on the fact that you don't watch, read or otherwise view news? Most importantly, just tell me you don't live in SD.

Please, please, please say you don't live in San Diego. And if by some chance you do, how would you know this based on the fact that you don't watch, read or otherwise view news? Most importantly, just tell me you don't live in SD.

I do live in San Diego. I do not watch the news and to my knowledge this isn’t widely reported anyway. I used to Surf in Baja weekly but no longer do because of the violence. My girlfriend has family South of the border and the ones who have not already bailed to the States illegally and looking to do it legally ASAP. I also have friends that live in Baja that I still surf with on the US side that explain how bad the current situation is & how it is getting worse.

Not to mention working Narcotics so close to the border you heard & observed some horrible stuff directly related to Mexico.

here in georgia today.... i've recently moved back into my departed grandparents home, our family has owned this home since wwII. in that time the area went from simple working class folks, to crime ridden streets. south central ATL

nice fall day, left my door open to allow the breeze in the screen door.

i take things like castle doctrine and curtilage seriously.

two police suvs pulled up in front of my house, one officer entered my property (came through the only open gate on the property)

it is reasonable for a person to walk from a public area to the obvious main entrance to the home using the most obvious path. otherwise, government agents need consent, a warrant, or probable cause of exigent circumstances to enter a home's curtilage.

cop didn't come to my door, instead he circled my house using what i would call tactical movement. as soon as he passed the front of the house i stopped and challenged him. "STOP, CAN I HELP YOU SIR? then asking why he didn't come to the door. at this time, his partner was pulling in.

concerns of burglaries in the area, health and welfare check of my elderly father. both reasonable answers.

then they began questioning me. asked to search my home, i refused. if you've got nothing to hide, why are you refusing? (a fools argument at best) i gave my name, and asked them to return with a warrant. they left. sat in his cruiser for 10-15 mins probably running a warrant check. over the course of the rest of the day did at least 10 slow drive bys.

i am treated like a suspect because of where i live, the house my grandfather bought when he returned for the pacific theater. this house has raised generations of my family. it is our castle. i resent being profiled into the "2%" because our family is lower working class. i am the 1%, not the rich, but the 1% that has served.

i resent cameras on every street corner, equipped with facial recognition and plate readers, all accessible from officers laptops in the cruiser.

here in georgia today.... i've recently moved back into my departed grandparents home, our family has owned this home since wwII. in that time the area went from simple working class folks, to crime ridden streets. south central ATL

nice fall day, left my door open to allow the breeze in the screen door.

i take things like castle doctrine and curtilage seriously.

two police suvs pulled up in front of my house, one officer entered my property (came through the only open gate on the property)

it is reasonable for a person to walk from a public area to the obvious main entrance to the home using the most obvious path. otherwise, government agents need consent, a warrant, or probable cause of exigent circumstances to enter a home's curtilage.

cop didn't come to my door, instead he circled my house using what i would call tactical movement. as soon as he passed the front of the house i stopped and challenged him. "STOP, CAN I HELP YOU SIR? then asking why he didn't come to the door. at this time, his partner was pulling in.

concerns of burglaries in the area, health and welfare check of my elderly father. both reasonable answers.

then they began questioning me. asked to search my home, i refused. if you've got nothing to hide, why are you refusing? (a fools argument at best) i gave my name, and asked them to return with a warrant. they left. sat in his cruiser for 10-15 mins probably running a warrant check. over the course of the rest of the day did at least 10 slow drive bys.

i am treated like a suspect because of where i live, the house my grandfather bought when he returned for the pacific theater. this house has raised generations of my family. it is our castle. i resent being profiled into the "2%" because our family is lower working class. i am the 1%, not the rich, but the 1% that has served.

i resent cameras on every street corner, equipped with facial recognition and plate readers, all accessible from officers laptops in the cruiser.

i fear the rising police state, and the militarization of the police.

I agree with you. I have served and you service should be treated with Honor & Respect.

You gave the right answers; you did not have to give them your name.

The area just being high crime is not really good enough in my book for an Officer to enter onto the property of a house especially if it looks lived in. I could see if the house looked unoccupied but if someone lives there I do not believe they have any basis.

What was the relationship your Grandfather had with the Police? Would they stop and talk with him? Because if not a Welfare check would not be true because someone would have to call the local Police Dept. and ask for a welfare check and that would make no sense for a family member of your to ask for this if your Grandfather has passed.

I would love to live in San Diego but I can't afford it. Housing is 244% higher in San Diego than Greensboro but salaries in my field are approximately the same. BTW violent crime and property crime in Greensboro is ranked 8 out of 10 (10 being the worst) where San Diego is only 5/10.

my grandfather passed away 30 years ago. my father, who is in poor health, has been living in the house for a few years now. i thought the welfare check was a good answer, had he come to the door first. instead, he was going to cover the rear while his partner came to the front door. not really welfare check SOP.

I can't believe you haven't heard the term "meat eaters," yet you have your master's in CJ. It was one of the first terms I learned in a class taught by a federal prosecutor. It means cops who take bribes, swag etc.

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

yeah, serpico, it wasn't meant as a joke, its where the terms came from. not the movie, the real thing.

The Knapp Commission (officially known as the Commission to Investigate Alleged Police Corruption) stemmed from a five-member panel initially formed in April 1970 by Mayor John V. Lindsay to investigate corruption within the New York City Police Department. The creation of the commission was largely a result of the publicity generated by the public revelations of police corruption made by Patrolman Frank Serpico and Sergeant David Durk.

"Grass Eaters" and "Meat Eaters"

The Knapp Commission Report on Police Corruption identified two particular classes of corrupt police officer, which it called "Grass Eaters" and "Meat Eaters". This classification refers to petty corruption under peer pressure ("eating grass") and aggressive premeditated major corruption ("eating meat").

The term "Grass Eaters" is used to describe police officers who "accept gratuities and solicit five, ten, twenty dollar payments from contractors, tow-truck operators, gamblers, and the like but do not pursue corruption payments." 'Grass eating' is something that a significant number of officers are guilty of, but which they learned to do so from other cops or from imitating the deviants they watch and investigate every day. The commission even concluded that 'grass eating' was used by police officers in New York City to prove their loyalty to the brotherhood, and with that came incentives like side jobs. One method of preventing cops from becoming corrupt is to eliminate this step by removing veteran cops who do this, without any veteran cops to learn this from, new officers might never decide to 'eat grass'.

"Meat Eaters" are officers who "spend a good deal of time aggressively looking for situations they can exploit for financial gain." An example of this is shaking down pimps and drug dealers for money not only for the material profit to the officers, but for the relief from guilt that the officers derive by convincing themselves that their victims deserve such treatment. They justify taking advantage of (these) criminals because they are considered the dregs of society."

If an Officer wants you to go into the Station to give a statement response should be 'Am I under arrest' if the answer is NO, DON'T GO.

Never EVER think speaking to Police is in your best interest because it is not, do not help their investigation by opening your mouth and giving voluntary statements no matter what the case or charge.

I read this with intrigue and chose not to comment until I spoke to my police chief uncle. He indicated that in most cases, not cooperating will likely result in an arrest if there is suspicion of a crime or if someone else made a complaint against an individual. If you don't relate your side of the story, the officer is left to make a decision on what "facts" or "allegations" he has.

If I weren't so dang lazy I could probably find some other credible links, but I already suspected that your advice wasn't appropriate.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 02:29:12 PM by wolfter »

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

I read this with intrigue and chose not to comment until I spoke to my police chief uncle. He indicated that in most cases, not cooperating will likely result in an arrest if there is suspicion of a crime or if someone else made a complaint against an individual. If you don't relate your side of the story, the officer is left to make a decision on what "facts" or "allegations" he has.

If I weren't so dang lazy I could probably find some other credible links, but I already suspected that your advice wasn't appropriate.

The only way an Officer can make an arrest is based on Probable cause not reasonable suspicion. If you refuse to cooperate with the investigation that is your right to remain silent. Simply ask an Attorney and the first thing they will tell you is not speak with the Officer regarding the call, case or charge because in no way, shape of form are you going to help yourself by doing so.

I do not care how pissed the Officer will be you have the right to not speak with them and it is very simple there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. If you refuse to speak they cannot arrest you 'JUST BECAUSE' and if you are arrested you were going to be arrested anyway if the burden of Probable cause is met.

Being arrested and being charged are two separate areas. If you speak with an Officer an assist his/her investigation chances are you will be charged. If you do not want to take my word on this issue as stated above simply ask an Attorney and they will tell you the same.

If you are suspected in a Murder case do you think it would be in your best interest to speak with the Detectives when they want to speak with you or tell them to pound sand? Because believe it or not not speaking with them is in an opinion and just because you didn't speak with them does not mean they can arrest you. I use Murder as an example but it is the same exact thing for any investigation, any crime misdemeanor or felony.

If I ever committed a crime, then I probably wouldn't speak with the authorities. I guess you're assuming everyone is actually guilty. If I was involved in any manner in an investgation and was innocent, I'd allow law enforcement to verify my alibi and such.

We certainly do have the right to remain silent, but an innocent person usually doesn't have anything to hide.

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Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

If I ever committed a crime I would speak to the "authorities".... I'd tell them I didn't do it. I saw this done many times on 48 hours. I would also ask for a #3 McDonald's meal cuz it seems they give them to you for free. It makes no sense going back home hungry.

I would love to live in San Diego but I can't afford it. Housing is 244% higher in San Diego than Greensboro but salaries in my field are approximately the same. BTW violent crime and property crime in Greensboro is ranked 8 out of 10 (10 being the worst) where San Diego is only 5/10.

I live in San Diego but when I worked for the PD I worked further North. San Diego is an amazing City=)

I read this with intrigue and chose not to comment until I spoke to my police chief uncle. He indicated that in most cases, not cooperating will likely result in an arrest if there is suspicion of a crime or if someone else made a complaint against an individual. If you don't relate your side of the story, the officer is left to make a decision on what "facts" or "allegations" he has.

If I weren't so dang lazy I could probably find some other credible links, but I already suspected that your advice wasn't appropriate.

I am sorry but the advice you were given is not only wrong but dead wrong. If an Officer or Detective was to ever arrest you for not cooperating that would be a huge mistake civilly & financially for that Department. The simple fact is the Officer needs Reasonable Suspicion to make an arrest, not a hunch, not a gut feeling, not reason suspicion, they need PC.

This is a very simple rule to follow:

If the Officer has PC already you are going to jail and you should never speak with them.

If the Officer needs to talk with you they are looking for PC and by talking that is only going to help them.

Unless you are the victim, there is no reason to speak with the police. Your first step should be finding a good defense attorney, your second step is to STFU!!

I also agree that San Diego is a great city (except for some reason every time I am there I freeze my ass of, and that's from someone who lives in Seattle, go figure)

And I agree with you that smoking pot (or in your case vaporizing or whatevs) is A-OK!

See, common ground my friend

Well said unless you are a victim STFU and STFU not sometime but everytime, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER talk to the Police is the Police are called to your house, if you are suspected in a crime or if you are arrested.

As for freezing you butt off in San Diego they say you blood thins out in warmer temps. I am from a cold area and I know I could never go back there to live. I consider freezing to 60

"We certainly do have the right to remain silent, but an innocent person usually doesn't have anything to hide."

That is an incredibly weak viewpoint. The Bill of Rights protects and guarantees our natural rights. An innocent person shouldn't exercise their right to remain silent, to be secure from unreasonable search and seizure? How about any of my other civil/human rights? Which ones should I sacrifice, because I'm innocent? My answer is not a single fkn one of them.

I NEVER cooperate with police, I obey lawful orders, and there is a difference. I choose NEVER to speak to police, that is my right. I will always bear true faith and alligence to the Constitution.

Fair enough, instead of discourse, let it die. Remember the Eagle raid in Atlanta? Lets hope the same thing never happens at an AIDSmeds Gathering.

edited to add.... and btw, thanks for shushing me. stirring the pot once again? we've both posted 9 times in this thread. i realize that since i don't have the "history" here, and that i haven't had AIDS as long as others, my input is not as legitimate. its something i've been reminded of before here. so i'll go sit in the corner and be quite now.

Fair enough, instead of discourse, let it die. Remember the Eagle raid in Atlanta? Lets hope the same thing never happens at an AIDSmeds Gathering.

I have to agree because I remember this incident - and it was completely unsuprising to me that they did it. The police have stomped all over me and my rights - and don't give me any of your "closet criminal" bullshit, remy - and as far as I am concened, they can all fucking rot for all I care.

Police can (and do...and DID, in my case) manufacture "probable cause" all the damn time because they know they can get away with it almost every time. In my case, simce some of you are likely wondering, I had to sit in jail for three fucking months over bullshit charges that were eventually completely dropped...but not until after having to pay out thousands for an attorney and having to sit in terror in jail. Oh...and missing the funeral of my dear cousin while in there.

If the police would have done their jobs properly instead of acting like the rat fucking bastards they are, none of it would have ever happened. I fucking hate them. Might as well just say so.

It is creepy. Then you throw in the fact that cops are smoking that high grade (or eating, vaporizing) kush and can't even remember that they do it. What if during a weed induced traffic stop they forgot to clear the scanner and think the soccer mom they just pulled over for going 7 mph over the speed limit is a serial rapist?

Soccer moms every where should be scared.

They don't have to worry about Remy though, he's retired. He is probably doing a confessional on Santa Monica Beach right now!

That is really creepy, I agree. It seems things today are so invasive. A couple years ago a car rear ended me. Within a couple weeks I started getting letters from chiropractors and scam lawyers. But this portable fingerprint scanners are a bit much.

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

i realize that since i don't have the "history" here, and that i haven't had AIDS as long as others, my input is not as legitimate. its something i've been reminded of before here. so i'll go sit in the corner and be quite now.

Since this isn't an HIV related issue, length of diagnosis is irrelevant. I never said your input is not legitimate, you said my views were. You "quoted" my opinion and indicated it was a weak opinion. You could have stated your views without downplaying mine.

You can come out of the corner and play now.

Logged

Complacency is the enemy. Challenge yourself daily for maximum return on investment.

I have to agree because I remember this incident - and it was completely unsuprising to me that they did it. The police have stomped all over me and my rights - and don't give me any of your "closet criminal" bullshit, remy - and as far as I am concened, they can all fucking rot for all I care.

Police can (and do...and DID, in my case) manufacture "probable cause" all the damn time because they know they can get away with it almost every time. In my case, simce some of you are likely wondering, I had to sit in jail for three fucking months over bullshit charges that were eventually completely dropped...but not until after having to pay out thousands for an attorney and having to sit in terror in jail. Oh...and missing the funeral of my dear cousin while in there.

If the police would have done their jobs properly instead of acting like the rat fucking bastards they are, none of it would have ever happened. I fucking hate them. Might as well just say so.

I agree with you that if you have a corrupt Police Officer they can manufacture Probable Cause because the Judicial System leans toward their word and not the citizens, it is wrong.

I had a classmate in my Academy who came from an East Coast Police Department and I heard him say that he was told by a Training Officer back East ‘You find me a gun in that car and I will the PC that allowed us to search that vehicle after the fact’ or ‘If we have no reason to pull them over and it goes sideways NO SEATBELT.’

The simple fact is there are corrupt Officers out there and if you run into one and look the part chances are you might find yourself in a heap of trouble over nothing.

We were using this technology shortly after 9/11 with Federal money grants.

Local Police Departments are TODAY getting Federal Grants to allow Officers to work OT (Overtime) to act as spotters on Freeway overpasses to look for people driving & texting, radioing to an Officer in a Patrol Car on the Freeway and having them cited. We are without a doubt moving more toward a Big Brother society.

It is creepy. Then you throw in the fact that cops are smoking that high grade (or eating, vaporizing) kush and can't even remember that they do it. What if during a weed induced traffic stop they forgot to clear the scanner and think the soccer mom they just pulled over for going 7 mph over the speed limit is a serial rapist?

Soccer moms every where should be scared.

They don't have to worry about Remy though, he's retired. He is probably doing a confessional on Santa Monica Beach right now!

I was surfing but not Santa Monica Beach, the waves were amazing, if you have never tried you have to give it a shot.

Cop pulls over a drunk driver, and there sitting behind the wheel is the owner of the local diner who has provided members of the local PD with free lunches for the last 5 years.

Now one free $5.00 lunch might not seem like much, but multiply that by 365 days, then multiply that by 5 years... it comes to $9,125 dollars. Then multiply that by the average number of officers who take advantage of the free lunch every day... you're quickly talking about someone who has directly provided individual members of the PD with tens of thousands of dollars in goods and services.

Even though the officers may not have considered accepting free lunches a bribe, and even though the diner's owner may not have intended it to be a bribe... it can easily have the same effect. The cop who has cummulatively received nearly $10,000 worth of freebies over the years from this man is going to be inclined to show him some leniency, and the man is likely going to expect it.