In my view, JJ is a bad choice. I'll write a ReelThought discussing my reasoning in the near future.

I think he is a very bad choice also after what he has done to Star Trek. The reboot was slickly done and seemed to well received by the movie goers but was it really Star Trek. I thought that he took a complex rich humanistic fictional universe and turned it into a Die Hard movie with Kirk as John McClane and the sequel seems to be more of the same. There is not one iota of Gene Roddenberry's forward looking scifi optimism just cold hard action movie militarism. Maybe his style will suit Star Wars better but I would have preferred Joss Whedon after what he did in Serenity and Avengers getting action,comedy and drama in the right mix which is what made the first Star Wars work so well and the sequels less so.

Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:25 pm

Ragnarok73

Cinematographer

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pmPosts: 545

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

oakenshield32 wrote:

Quote:

In my view, JJ is a bad choice. I'll write a ReelThought discussing my reasoning in the near future.

I think he is a very bad choice also after what he has done to Star Trek. The reboot was slickly done and seemed to well received by the movie goers but was it really Star Trek. I thought that he took a complex rich humanistic fictional universe and turned it into a Die Hard movie with Kirk as John McClane and the sequel seems to be more of the same. There is not one iota of Gene Roddenberry's forward looking scifi optimism just cold hard action movie militarism. Maybe his style will suit Star Wars better but I would have preferred Joss Whedon after what he did in Serenity and Avengers getting action,comedy and drama in the right mix which is what made the first Star Wars work so well and the sequels less so.

Abrams was accused of turning Star Trek into "science fantasy" rather than "science fiction". Fortunately, science fantasy is precisely what the Star Wars films could be categorized as. Abrams is a great choice for the upcoming films, as his style fits the franchise like a glove. In any case, he's better than Snyder.

_________________"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:23 pm

dps

Second Unit Director

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:49 pmPosts: 209

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Ragnarok73 wrote:

oakenshield32 wrote:

Quote:

In my view, JJ is a bad choice. I'll write a ReelThought discussing my reasoning in the near future.

I think he is a very bad choice also after what he has done to Star Trek. The reboot was slickly done and seemed to well received by the movie goers but was it really Star Trek. I thought that he took a complex rich humanistic fictional universe and turned it into a Die Hard movie with Kirk as John McClane and the sequel seems to be more of the same. There is not one iota of Gene Roddenberry's forward looking scifi optimism just cold hard action movie militarism. Maybe his style will suit Star Wars better but I would have preferred Joss Whedon after what he did in Serenity and Avengers getting action,comedy and drama in the right mix which is what made the first Star Wars work so well and the sequels less so.

Abrams was accused of turning Star Trek into "science fantasy" rather than "science fiction". Fortunately, science fantasy is precisely what the Star Wars films could be categorized as. Abrams is a great choice for the upcoming films, as his style fits the franchise like a glove. In any case, he's better than Snyder.

I don't know that the criticism was that he turned Star Trek into "science fantasy" so much as it was that he turned it into a relatively mindless action film that happened to be set in space (which I think was a valid POV).

I don't particularly care for the term "science fantasy". It's usually seems to be code for "soft SF that I don't like".

Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:04 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3850Location: Zion, IL

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

I wouldn't call the new Star Trek film "mindless" at all.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:01 pm

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

dps wrote:

I don't particularly care for the term "science fantasy". It's usually seems to be code for "soft SF that I don't like".

"Science fantasy" is a marvelously accurate term for Star Wars, and I've loved Star Wars since I was eight.

Star Trek is soft sci-fi. Star Wars doesn't really fit the bill.

Vexer wrote:

I wouldn't call the new Star Trek film "mindless" at all.

It isn't mindless compared to Die Hard or Max Payne, but it's pretty mindless compared to just about any other Star Trek story. That isn't to say that it doesn't have its virtues, though.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:26 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3850Location: Zion, IL

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Ken wrote:

dps wrote:

I don't particularly care for the term "science fantasy". It's usually seems to be code for "soft SF that I don't like".

"Science fantasy" is a marvelously accurate term for Star Wars, and I've loved Star Wars since I was eight.

Star Trek is soft sci-fi. Star Wars doesn't really fit the bill.

Vexer wrote:

I wouldn't call the new Star Trek film "mindless" at all.

It isn't mindless compared to Die Hard or Max Payne, but it's pretty mindless compared to just about any other Star Trek story. That isn't to say that it doesn't have its virtues, though.

Interesting, my mom (who's a much bigger trekkie then I am) thought it was every bit as good as the other Trek films. I think it's better then some trek films(like the first, fifth and seventh films), but not as good as others.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:31 pm

oakenshield32

Cinematographer

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:11 pmPosts: 583

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Quote:

I wouldn't call the new Star Trek film "mindless" at all.

I don't see his movies (MI 3, Super Eight or Star Trek)much differently than a Good Day to Die Hard except he is much better at making slick commercial movies. A real Spielberg acolyte. There is thin patina of emotion with Abrams but compare it to the Nicholas Meyer's Wrath of Khan which is very similar to Master and Commander as a nautical adventure story or the Undiscovered Country which resembles the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall. There is deeper literary resonance there as some of the writers of Star Trek were old fashioned scifi writers of Asimov and Bradbury ilk. I miss that feeling with Abrams who makes things look as deep as a video game.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:44 pm

ck100

Second Unit Director

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:07 pmPosts: 218

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Abrams needs to look at episodes like "City on the Edge of Forever" and "Balance of Terror" in order to make a great Star Trek movie.

My concern with Abrams and STAR WARS is simple and not based on what he did/didn't do with STAR TREK. He's too close to STAR WARS and that kind of affection often leads to problems.

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:26 pm

calvero

Director

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pmPosts: 1388

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Quote:

I smell oversaturation coming. I'm not a believer that the market can handle too much STAR WARS.

looks that way

Quote:

In a presentation Wednesday at CinemaCon, the annual meeting of the National Theater Owners Association, Disney representatives unveiled some big plans for the "Star Wars" franchise after purchasing Lucasfilm for $4 billion. While it's well known that "Star Wars: Episode VII" is in the works and poised for release in the summer of 2015, Disney is saying after that, fans can expect a new "Star Wars" movie every summer for at least five years, with installments in the official series alternating with stand-alone films that will focus on well-loved characters in the "Star Wars" universe.

If you're the kind of fan who can't get enough "Star Wars," Disney has just made the announcement you've been dreaming of.

In a presentation Wednesday at CinemaCon, the annual meeting of the National Theater Owners Association, Disney representatives unveiled some big plans for the "Star Wars" franchise after purchasing Lucasfilm for $4 billion. While it's well known that "Star Wars: Episode VII" is in the works and poised for release in the summer of 2015, Disney is saying after that, fans can expect a new "Star Wars" movie every summer for at least five years, with installments in the official series alternating with stand-alone films that will focus on well-loved characters in the "Star Wars" universe.

That means six "Star Wars" movies between 2015 and 2020. That's a lot of lightsabers.

Disney is being stingy with the details on what fans can expect from the new movies, but it's been widely speculated that Disney has been planning to make "Star Wars" films that looked outside the continuing narrative of official series, and this confirms they're coming sooner than later. (If we're to believe the scuttlebutt, Yoda, Boba Fett, and Han Solo will be getting their own movies in the future.)

It also makes clear that Disney intends to use the Lucasfilm properties as a powerful cash locomotive, though with J.J. Abrams writing and directing "Episode VII" and Lawrence Kasdan (screenwriter of "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Raiders of the Lost Ark") and Simon Kinberg ("X-Men: The Last Stand" and "Sherlock Holmes") rumored to be writing the stand-alone projects, they're aiming for quality as well as quantity.

Disney's announcement also shrewdly opens the door for lots more speculation among fans and bloggers while confirming something nearly everyone seems to want: a lot more "Star Wars" movies. Well played, Disney. And if your writers start to run out of ideas, you might consider bringing in Patton Oswalt for a script meeting.

If you're the kind of fan who can't get enough "Star Wars," Disney has just made the announcement you've been dreaming of.

In a presentation Wednesday at CinemaCon, the annual meeting of the National Theater Owners Association, Disney representatives unveiled some big plans for the "Star Wars" franchise after purchasing Lucasfilm for $4 billion. While it's well known that "Star Wars: Episode VII" is in the works and poised for release in the summer of 2015, Disney is saying after that, fans can expect a new "Star Wars" movie every summer for at least five years, with installments in the official series alternating with stand-alone films that will focus on well-loved characters in the "Star Wars" universe.

That means six "Star Wars" movies between 2015 and 2020. That's a lot of lightsabers.

Disney is being stingy with the details on what fans can expect from the new movies, but it's been widely speculated that Disney has been planning to make "Star Wars" films that looked outside the continuing narrative of official series, and this confirms they're coming sooner than later. (If we're to believe the scuttlebutt, Yoda, Boba Fett, and Han Solo will be getting their own movies in the future.)

It also makes clear that Disney intends to use the Lucasfilm properties as a powerful cash locomotive, though with J.J. Abrams writing and directing "Episode VII" and Lawrence Kasdan (screenwriter of "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Raiders of the Lost Ark") and Simon Kinberg ("X-Men: The Last Stand" and "Sherlock Holmes") rumored to be writing the stand-alone projects, they're aiming for quality as well as quantity.

Disney's announcement also shrewdly opens the door for lots more speculation among fans and bloggers while confirming something nearly everyone seems to want: a lot more "Star Wars" movies. Well played, Disney. And if your writers start to run out of ideas, you might consider bringing in Patton Oswalt for a script meeting.

If the quality is there, I can deal with large quantities. Mainly, I'm interested in seeing what a competent writer and director can do with the franchise now that Lucas' grubby fingers are no longer on it.

_________________"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:32 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3850Location: Zion, IL

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

I'm just glad I won't have to hear people whining incessantly about how "Lucas" ruined the franchise anymore.

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:42 pm

AJR

Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:49 amPosts: 100

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Oh, you think that's going to stop?

Ahahahahaha

AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Heh

Nope.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:07 am

Ragnarok73

Cinematographer

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pmPosts: 545

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

AJR wrote:

Oh, you think that's going to stop?

Ahahahahaha

AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Heh

Nope.

If anything, should the new films turn out to be good, it will only highlight how poorly Lucas did with the prequel piles of garbage, so the comparisons would chase him to his gold-plated grave.

_________________"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:51 am

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3850Location: Zion, IL

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Ragnarok73 wrote:

AJR wrote:

Oh, you think that's going to stop?

Ahahahahaha

AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Heh

Nope.

If anything, should the new films turn out to be good, it will only highlight how poorly Lucas did with the prequel piles of garbage, so the comparisons would chase him to his gold-plated grave.

With all the insane malice towards Lucas, i'm just glad I saw the prequels without any kind of pre-conceived notions.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:59 am

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Will the Star Wars fandumb find new reasons to hate everything Star Wars-related that comes down the pike? Or will they inexplicably continue to blame George Lucas for the lack of quality of motion pictures he no longer has creative control over? Or will they gobble up the deluge of mass-manufactured Star Wars films, completely ignoring the irony that this is precisely the sort of cash grab they've purported to hate in the past?

So many questions!

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:06 am

Ragnarok73

Cinematographer

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pmPosts: 545

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Ken wrote:

Will the Star Wars fandumb find new reasons to hate everything Star Wars-related that comes down the pike? Or will they inexplicably continue to blame George Lucas for the lack of quality of motion pictures he no longer has creative control over? Or will they gobble up the deluge of mass-manufactured Star Wars films, completely ignoring the irony that this is precisely the sort of cash grab they've purported to hate in the past?

So many questions!

Will people realize that most of the SW fandumb are those who defend Lucas like he's a god who can't do anything wrong, especially the ones who grew up on the prequel "films"? If the new films turn out to be good ones, is it fair to call them "cash grabs" anymore than it would be fair to call, say, the LoTR films cash grabs?

So many questions indeed!

_________________"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:17 pm

Ragnarok73

Cinematographer

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:40 pmPosts: 545

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Vexer wrote:

With all the insane malice towards Lucas, i'm just glad I saw the prequels without any kind of pre-conceived notions.

Ah, to have been able to watch those films with the innocence of a baby (re: grow up with them).

_________________"Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain."

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:18 pm

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: December 23, 2012: Episode VII

Ragnarok73 wrote:

Will people realize that most of the SW fandumb are those who defend Lucas like he's a god who can't do anything wrong

For purposes of differentiation, I refer to these people as "unicorns".

Ragnarok73 wrote:

If the new films turn out to be good ones, is it fair to call them "cash grabs" anymore than it would be fair to call, say, the LoTR films cash grabs?

Perhaps more fair than any of us can know.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

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