I am in a great place right now in my life. I have a great job as a firefighter/paramedic in a big city making six figures. Great schedule, time off, pension, and benefits. Seven years on the job, able to retire after 20, but looking to put in 29 and retire at 60.

My wife is doing the same, around six figures as a dentist. We have a great house in a great neighborhood with a mortgage of around $160K. I am 38, my wife is 33. We have two boys, 2 1/2, and 14 months. Both are happy and healthy, for the most part.

Right now we are trying to decide about having a third child. I basically grew up as one of six and loved having a big family. 50 people at Christmas, family picnics with 150+ people, summer houses stuffed with 20 people. We started out poor, but through my farher's hard work, wound up very well to do.

My wife is an only child and works full time as a dentist. She only has a few cousins. I sometimes get overwhelmed caring for and chasing around two toddlers and tell her so. I still want to have another child. (I wanted four, but I am just to old for that, IMO. Newborns at 42-43 is just too much.) if we decide to have a third, we wouldn't try until a year from now, making me around 40 when he/she is born, and my wife 35.

Retirement savings are OK, but no great, but hope to push them up soon. I think we are close to 150K, and on track for a stable retirement, especially with my pension. (75% after 29 years.) I really don't care if I have to work a few more years, I'd much rather have the love and joy of a big family. My wife sees all the work of diapers and potty training the last few years and hesitates. I say once the youngest hits two, we'll be golden.

Anyone else decide to have more and regret it? Have more and love it? Looking for outside opinions...

My wife and I chose not to have more children because we both work and could not handle the additional strain of a newborn in our mid 30s. I don't regret this at 41, but who knows how I'll feel in 20 years.

However, I have seen multiple couples go for #3 when both work and it looks quite difficult from a distance.

I think if your wife is a dentist, she cannot really work less. Since you have the extra time and you say that looking after two is hard, isn't this telling you something?

We have two kids about the same ages and sometimes raise the question of a third. Usually it's just one of us antagonizing the other. We aren't past diapers yet and still don't sleep at night. I'm writing this at 130am which is about our normal bedtime...

This isn't the right forum for certain questions.The issue we can address here is the financial impact of having one more kid.I have no idea what college costs will be 20 years from now, at OP's age 60, but you should take a sober look at this situation...

sscritic wrote:Anyone who has to ask anonymous strangers on the internet whether he should have another child shouldn't have another child.

Actually, anonymous strangers aren't as bad as you seem to be implying.We have the slight advantage of being able to make factual assessments, based on presumed facts presented, without worrying about personal interactions...

sscritic wrote:Anyone who has to ask anonymous strangers on the internet whether he should have another child shouldn't have another child.

Actually, anonymous strangers aren't as bad as you seem to be implying.We have the slight advantage of being able to make factual assessments, based on presumed facts presented, without worrying about personal interactions...

I don't think I was implying anything about anonymous strangers on the internet.

og15F1 wrote:We have two kids about the same ages and sometimes raise the question of a third. Usually it's just one of us antagonizing the other. We aren't past diapers yet and still don't sleep at night. I'm writing this at 130am which is about our normal bedtime...

I just wanted to say that it does get better, in a two steps forward and one step back sort of way.

I had my own children far too young, in hindsight, but I'm glad for the energy I had in my early 20's to deal with newborns. Two of the three of mine should be out of high school by the time I'm 40, and the third is not too far behind. I can't imagine another baby at 40, though I do get the occasional reminder from my biological clock I have learned that if I give it a little time it passes.

The Wizard wrote:This isn't the right forum for certain questions.The issue we can address here is the financial impact of having one more kid.I have no idea what college costs will be 20 years from now, at OP's age 60, but you should take a sober look at this situation...

Financial issues are not limited to college costs. A child is an opportunity cost for the parents to advance in their education and careers. A child with a chronic disease or special needs may become a far greater financial sink than a college. A cute healthy toddler may turn into a violent substance-abusing teenager requiring extensive legal expenditures. And after surviving the children's teenage years, a parent is financially challenged by children in law and their families.

A child is an emotional and financial minefield. Enter at your own risk.

Victoria

WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

OnFire wrote:Right now we are trying to decide about having a third child. My wife is an only child and works full time as a dentist. She only has a few cousins. I sometimes get overwhelmed caring for and chasing around two toddlers and tell her so. I still want to have another child. (I wanted four, but I am just to old for that, IMO. Newborns at 42-43 is just too much.) if we decide to have a third, we wouldn't try until a year from now, making me around 40 when he/she is born, and my wife 35.

I really don't care if I have to work a few more years, I'd much rather have the love and joy of a big family. My wife sees all the work of diapers and potty training the last few years and hesitates. I say once the youngest hits two, we'll be golden.Anyone else decide to have more and regret it? Have more and love it? Looking for outside opinions...

You are willing to work a few more years - in your occupation. You sometimes get overwhelmed with two, now imagine a 33% increase in demand with no increase in support. Raising a child is a 24 hour job, now multiply that by 3.Sounds like your wife would be required in your words "responsible for child rearing". Can't tell you what to do here - but it doesn't look like it's in the cards and not because of monetary reasons, either. Oh, and while it gets harder as one ages, it's not that big of a jump as you might believe.

With your first and second children 2 1/2 and 14 months, now is probably not the best time to discuss this with your wife. Table the idea until a set point in time (maybe when the youngest is 2?) and bring it up again.

We are expecting our third. The first two were 25 months apart - not doing that again. Third will be about 38 months (three years) behind the second - this seems MUCH more reasonable. We've had a year of no diapers in there (what a glorious year!) and our two older kids (5 and 3) are getting pretty self-sufficient and even downright helpful (the five year old has been a huge help around the house while I've been pregnant).

Give your wife some breathing room. Little kids are a LOT of work, but it seems to get easier pretty quickly after the age of two.

FWIW - I'll be 34 when this baby is born (DH is 33). Both of us work outside the home. This will be our last.

An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.

OnFire wrote: I basically grew up as one of six and loved having a big family. 50 people at Christmas, family picnics with 150+ people, summer houses stuffed with 20 people. We started out poor, but through my farher's hard work, wound up very well to do.

Anyone else decide to have more and regret it? Have more and love it? Looking for outside opinions...

So what happened to all the 50 people at Christmas and 150+ at family picnics? Or do you just want YOUR 50/150 people? I think your stated reasons for wanting another child seem selfish. You CAN accomplish all these things WITHOUT bringing another child into the world. You could probably find "family" very close in your own neighborhood that would be very appreciative of the "Brady Bunch" moments you could provide with your great schedule and financial life.

And thanks for asking first. I'm not sure my community is prepared to help you take care of your third child. There are so many extra children that do not have parents like you and your wife that can at least provide the basics of life. Take a look at your two children and ask yourself if you could be really happy with just them.

OnFire wrote:I am in a great place right now in my life. I have a great job as a firefighter/paramedic in a big city making six figures. Great schedule, time off, pension, and benefits. Seven years on the job, able to retire after 20, but looking to put in 29 and retire at 60.

My wife is doing the same, around six figures as a dentist. We have a great house in a great neighborhood with a mortgage of around $160K. I am 38, my wife is 33. We have two boys, 2 1/2, and 14 months. Both are happy and healthy, for the most part.

Right now we are trying to decide about having a third child. I basically grew up as one of six and loved having a big family. 50 people at Christmas, family picnics with 150+ people, summer houses stuffed with 20 people. We started out poor, but through my farher's hard work, wound up very well to do.

My wife is an only child and works full time as a dentist. She only has a few cousins. I sometimes get overwhelmed caring for and chasing around two toddlers and tell her so. I still want to have another child. (I wanted four, but I am just to old for that, IMO. Newborns at 42-43 is just too much.) if we decide to have a third, we wouldn't try until a year from now, making me around 40 when he/she is born, and my wife 35.

Retirement savings are OK, but no great, but hope to push them up soon. I think we are close to 150K, and on track for a stable retirement, especially with my pension. (75% after 29 years.) I really don't care if I have to work a few more years, I'd much rather have the love and joy of a big family. My wife sees all the work of diapers and potty training the last few years and hesitates. I say once the youngest hits two, we'll be golden.

Anyone else decide to have more and regret it? Have more and love it? Looking for outside opinions...

I would go for it.

Frodo: I wish it need'nt have happened in my time. Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that isn't for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

This is such a personal-choice issue, but since you asked, I would not have another child at 40. Of course, I'm 62 now, so it's meaningless to me. My wife works part-time as a family physician, and the doc she works with is having twins with a second wife at 51. I think he's completely out of his mind, but it's not my life. The one thing I can add is that it seems that birth defects, learning disabilities, and autism seem to been closely connected to parents who are older at the time of birth, and 35 qualifies as older, so 40 is clearly older. I would have a serious discussion with your doc about the risks associated with having kids at an older age. Good luck.

Personally, if your wife is already in her mid 30s and she actually wants another child, I would not delay starting to try for another year. Since you already have young kids, I can see why your wife would be hesitant. I'm sure you well know that fertility has a steep cliff the older a woman gets and the risk for chromosomal abnormalities exponentially increases. Of course there are exceptions, and I know several family members who had healthy babies in their late 30s/early 40s. However, I can tell you that infertility treatments are both physically and financially very taxing (most insurance plans don't cover it at all) and in general the risk to your wife and future baby's health is greater. Only you and your wife can make that judgment call.

Talk to the wife and go for it if the two of you feel the value added is worth the expense and risk. Children are our future and while there are no guarantees, in the average they tend to perform like the stock market, strong long-term performance with the occasional gut-wrenching setbacks. Besides, you have two boys, you should try for the girl for mom and to take care of you in old age!

As far as the risks of having a baby beyond the mid-30s, the risks are not as large as generally believed, especially when a woman has had a successful pregnancy in the past and is reasonably healthy. At your wife's age, I wouldn't give this a second thought or even let it make you feel like you should be in a rush.

Good luck either way!

'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain

AlohaJoe wrote:It doesn't sound like a financial question at all. Does your wife want a third child. You should be asking her instead of us

+1

The person who really has to know is OP's wife.

If she does, then you have to make big plans in terms of getting in extra help, other sacrifices. 3 is going to make life at least 1.5x as complex as 2, and maybe 2+ x as complex.

But this is not a financial decision it is an emotional one.

The limit is her biological one (men decline in fertility, but it's usually not a big issue until after 45). After 35 the chance of getting pregnant starts to slip, and after 40 it is very low (the successful cases eg Mrs. Blair, the Prime Minister's wife at age 45, are usually of women who have already had several children ie quite fertile).

Any time you wait after 35 is going to be making the thing less likely (and the chance of an issue like Down's greater).

PreemieNurse wrote:Personally, if your wife is already in her mid 30s and she actually wants another child, I would not delay starting to try for another year. Since you already have young kids, I can see why your wife would be hesitant. I'm sure you well know that fertility has a steep cliff the older a woman gets and the risk for chromosomal abnormalities exponentially increases. Of course there are exceptions, and I know several family members who had healthy babies in their late 30s/early 40s. However, I can tell you that infertility treatments are both physically and financially very taxing (most insurance plans don't cover it at all) and in general the risk to your wife and future baby's health is greater. Only you and your wife can make that judgment call.

I would agree do not delay. The odds of a successful pregnancy and healthy child start to lengthen dramatically from the mid 30s.

I would generally counsel people against fertility treatments if they already have 2 kids. It's kind of God, or Fate if you will, you were meant to have 2 kids. 2 kids is enough to say you gave the first one a sibling, and you did your bit for the future of your family and the human race. No one can guarantee that your kids will live long and healthy lives, of course, but for a modern family there's a good chance. Fertility treatment is emotionally debilitating and associated with a number of physical risks for mother and child (and, I think there is at least anecdotal evidence, greater risk of breast cancer).

ResNullius wrote:This is such a personal-choice issue, but since you asked, I would not have another child at 40. Of course, I'm 62 now, so it's meaningless to me. My wife works part-time as a family physician, and the doc she works with is having twins with a second wife at 51. I think he's completely out of his mind, but it's not my life. The one thing I can add is that it seems that birth defects, learning disabilities, and autism seem to been closely connected to parents who are older at the time of birth, and 35 qualifies as older, so 40 is clearly older. I would have a serious discussion with your doc about the risks associated with having kids at an older age. Good luck.

I agree with all you say.

For the 51 year old though, on a second wife, I think this is probably about what she wants out of her life. She's got to make that call, she's traded off good years with him for very busy and stressful years with the twins-- that's the problem of an older partner (and I am assuming she doesn't have children from a previous relationship etc.). When the twins are about to move out and go to college, Dad will be an old man, with the health and financial issues that can bring.

For him, it will be stressful. For his kids, it will be odd, having a Dad who is halfway to a grand-dad.

But children can bring a very special joy to a man's life. And, if in his career, he was distant from the raising of his first children because of the hours he spent at work (and a doctor does make those sacrifices) this is a chance to get some of that back.

I love having 3 kids! The older kids pitch in and distract/play with the baby. As they all grow older there is such a variety of interests and skills, and they align themselves differently, sometimes a different 2 connecting on something, and as young adults giving advise on colleges, jobs, just being tuned into each other as peers, sometimes with the same advise a parent would give, but coming from a sibling, seems to have more weight. But, as others say, make sure you BOTH want to have 3 kids - it's a joint responsibility.

I might be biased since I have 4 of my own. But children are one of the greatest blessings in life. If you and your wife desire a larger family, I wouldn't let anything stop you (certainly not financial considerations).

My wife and I waited a bit too long to start. We wanted a large family but other things got in the way. By the time we got to #3, all was ok, but that biological clock was working against us; and #4 ended up being a miracle of modern science if you get my drift. We wish we could have had more, but it's now too late for us.

If you both want more children and decide to go for it, I highly doubt you're going to regret your decision. To the contrary, as you raise that child, you'll probably be amazed that you seriously considered not bringing that child into the world. JMHO.

JC

I honor my personality flaws, for without them I would have no personality at all.

Our children were born when we were in our late thirties. My spouse was pushing 40 when the youngest came along. Our experience is that children are easy, inexpensive, and make you feel young, but the OP already knows that.

Are you counting on your wife's income as a dentist after the third child comes along? My dentist daughter worked when she had none, one, and two, but quit one month before the birth of the third and hasn't worked as a dentist since. My dentist, her former boss, told me that his wife was a lawyer making big bucks who worked when she had none, one, and two, but quit when the third came along and hasn't worked as a lawyer since. Three may be the magic number in your family just as it was in these two examples.

Barely three months ago you were complaining about being cash short and having no time for your children and bickering with your wife over a third car! And the consensus was that you had too much debt and house ($211,000?!) and here you are being encouraged to pop out a third child, "I wouldn't let anything stop you (certainly not financial considerations). "

Before I add my comment, I feel the need to add that snarky comments are very annoying and to some degree harmful to any online community. That is in contrasdistinction to a reply with rigorous honesty or "reality check" which is frequently helpful. We have three children, two biological and one adopted. We were in a similar situation to the OP in that we had our two kids, two great careers requiring many years in school, and heading into our late 30's. We loved parenting and family and both come from small families and after very careful financial evaluation, it became a no-brainer decision for us to adopt (ie, we have the love, desire and finances to have another child). Our third child is a girl from China and she brings joy everywhere she goes; absolutely amazing child. Parenting has also brought many profound experiences for me on my journey and we have no regrets. Having said all this, the hard reality is that kids are expensive and require significant time commitment and I would have to strongly disagree with the idea that kids are inexpensive. After adoption, my wife sold her business and retired to be a full time mom because as has already been mentioned, kids actually need much more help and guidance as they get older. And as mentioned by another poster, your wife may very well need or want to cut back from her practice. Another very important variable to keep in mind is that early retirement is not going to happen for you, even if you come to dislike your job, you have to keep working. And then there is the somewhat taboo topic of 6-7 billion people on the planet that we already cannot support. Good luck with your decision.

bornloser wrote:And then there is the somewhat taboo topic of 6-7 billion people on the planet that we already cannot support.

I don't know why that would be taboo. Is it political?

I have four children; my youngest is only 14. By the time she graduates high school, I will have had at least one child at home for 35 years. My children are, knock wood, happy and healthy, but in retrospect, what if one of them had not been? As it is, I'm a house-husband and our finances are much better than we could have dreamed. However, even with kids that have no special needs (other than rides to hockey games/practices), I don't have a lot of "spare capacity." My situation is different to OP's, in that I remarried after 2 children with my first wife and my second wife made it very clear that she intended to try to have children.

To OP: unless you have a pressing and overwhelming desire to have more children, which I think means your question would never have appeared here, I wouldn't. Do not underestimate the emotional, financial, and time drain that older children will entail.

Interestingly, in our situation, especially with travel hockey, we find a significant difference between 2 child families and those with more. If there's a conflict with the kids' game times on a weekend, we just split the games (wife with one, me with the other). For families with a third or fourth kid, some poor soul gets carted around like a third wheel. It sounds a bit coarse, but I've never heard a more descriptive phrase than to say that one of those kids will always be "sucking hind teat,"

EDITED TO ADD: I include us in the 2 child group because of the significant age difference between the kids. My oldest is 30 and getting her PhD, so she no longer needs rides from Dad

OnFire wrote:... but we just bought a new house and are broke. We owe almost $20K in credit cards debt (around 11%) ...

OnFire wrote:We have had friction because the time I used to have to help with the kids and housework has gone into fixing up the house. So she has had double duty, running a dental practice, working full time, taking care of our ten month old and our 2 1/2 year old, and doing all the housework. She has anxiety and the fight over the BMW put her in the ER a few days later with chest pain.

OnFire wrote:My wife is an only child and works full time as a dentist. She only has a few cousins. I sometimes get overwhelmed caring for and chasing around two toddlers and tell her so.

I say no.

" ... advice is most useful and at its best, not when it is telling you what to do, but when it is illuminating aspects of the situation you hadn't thought about." --nisiprius

The youngest was a bit of a suprise, and my wife had just turned 41 when he was born. We were very worried about birth defects, but we got lucky and he's perfectly healthy.

Because they are so spread apart, we never really had more than two to deal with at a time... I do think three little ones with only two parents would be a lot of work.

Cons of children born far apart:

I was paying for college, braces, and day-care all at the same timeThe two older ones are not very close with the youngest. He's more of an only child.

Pros of children born far apart:

Built in babysittersCollege one at a timeBeing a parent of a young child for a long long time. I'm actually quite sad realizing my youngest is now 10, and I have maybe only a year or two left before this phase of my life is over.

OnFire wrote:... but we just bought a new house and are broke. We owe almost $20K in credit cards debt (around 11%) ...

OnFire wrote:We have had friction because the time I used to have to help with the kids and housework has gone into fixing up the house. So she has had double duty, running a dental practice, working full time, taking care of our ten month old and our 2 1/2 year old, and doing all the housework. She has anxiety and the fight over the BMW put her in the ER a few days later with chest pain.

OnFire wrote:My wife is an only child and works full time as a dentist. She only has a few cousins. I sometimes get overwhelmed caring for and chasing around two toddlers and tell her so.

I say no.

Whoa... After reading those quotes from his other thread, I don't think the OP should have another child anytime soon.

reggiesimpson wrote:My wife and i are in our 60s. We should have had a third child even in our early 40s. Now its too late. Go for it. You wont regret it.

My wife died when she was 49. If you had had a third child at 42 and your wife died when your child was 6, I don't doubt that you could have managed, but I expect your path would have been more difficult than mine (my children were 14 and 18 at the time). Even before her death, the road of surgery, chemo, recurrence, radiation, and more chemo was not an easy one to travel with teenagers. Your child could have been 4 and 5 while mommy was going through this. Having older siblings I am sure would have helped, but the odds on death don't go down the older you get.

It's just math. The older you are when you have your children, the younger they will be when you die.

P.S. I know some people like to have their children collect social security right along with them, but that's not my idea of a good reason to have children late. [Think 62 minus 18 equals 44.]

sscritic wrote:P.S. I know some people like to have their children collect social security right along with them, but that's not my idea of a good reason to have children late. [Think 62 minus 18 equals 44.]

My kids will collect social security for a short period of time while I do (if things go according to plan). It is just barely enough to make me file at 62 rather than waiting. If anyone thought that was a reason to have children late, they must be insane.

My reason for having children late is probably one of the few that's defensible: I could not imagine life without the woman I loved, she loved me too but not having children would be a deal breaker, and we could well afford it.

OP: I join the others in saying that, based on your life circumstances, it's not a good idea.

Having older parents quite frankly seems to work out better. Much more stable home life, much better able to appreciate new life and much more able to raise children responsibly. Everyone is different, of course, but I've seen this play out in my extended family. Death can and does happen, though. People seem to get by.

The question is whether you and your wife are financially and emotionally able to raise another child. Your recent posts are apparently contradictory on the financial part. It seems like you might have some issues to work out on the second part. I hope you and your wife can be of one mind on these issues. If you're not and you go through with it, it could jeopardize your existing family. That is a serious concern and you have two existing children to think of.

I hope people are not rude to OP, this is a big and difficult question for most.

Nobody honest admits kids are not a heck of a lot of work. And the older you get, the harder. And they can go horribly wrong-- born with a disability that has special needs, development problems, drug and criminality problems, pregnancy, illness, attending Yale not Princeton, failing to make the Olympic team, voting for Tony Blair, the works .

The US perhaps we could say (but this is also true of Canada and UK) there is not a whole lot of state support if there are medical or developmental issues (depends where of course).

But it is also incredibly rewarding.

Like most important things in life, the difficulty and the 'worthwhileness' of the activity are inextricably linked. Or to quote one of my favourite episodes of Star Trek the original series 'your son will the first man to explore Saturn'.

Given the issues about family stress and money OP has stated to us in this and earlier thread, I think he and his wife need to draw back very carefully and think very hard.

35 is not a hard deadline, especially for a 3rd child, but the odds do lengthen as you get older 'time waits for no woman' on this one. Honestly, IVF is such a high risk throw of the dice, I wouldn't count it as a realistic consideration, it's something you might try, but it's really meant for couples who cannot have children any other way.

But you need to be absolutely sure you are OK on the money going forward, and OK on the impact on your life, etc.

Because it's at least 1.5 times as much hassle, and maybe 2x as much hassle. AND if the child has special issues, then your whole world is about to be turned upside down FOREVER.

For example I've never had a friend who had a child (male friend that is) who didn't say their s-x life took the deep dive for a long period thereafter. And was in some ways permanently changed even when the kids are no longer toddlers.

I've never had a friend regret having children. But I've never heard one say that it was not life-changing.

And it really does, for the male partner, boil down to what their wife wants. If a man is yes, and a woman is no, it's a no. If a woman is yes and a man is no, then I think they should sit down with a counsellor and discuss why.

It's only if it is both who say yes, then you consider rationally whether you can actually cope with the additional stress, cost, hassle etc.

Speaking from the view point of having older parents. We were born (twins! surprise!) when older siblings were in college. All grandparents were dead by the time we were 10 years old. Parental health problems cropped up when we were in high school, so here we were taking SAT's and visiting parent in hospital. Also their activity level was very low, they were old. . . When we were in our 20's we were dealing with taking care of old and sick parent (got it done early! taking care of 6 mo old baby, and a 78 year old at same time)

When we hit 32 years old that was it for having more kids for just some of the reasons I listed.

Skiffy wrote:When we hit 32 years old that was it for having more kids for just some of the reasons I listed.

32 is old for having kids? Yikes!

We were the first parents in our group of friends, we started at 28 and will be done at 34. We have friends 32-36 that are just getting started with their first child. I think only two of our friends have two kids by now, one of them is 37 and contemplating a third.

My grandma had her last child in her late 30s and her mom before her was even older. My husband's family is similar, at least when it comes to grandparents. Remember when people had those huge families of 10, 12, 14 kids? Those women were having babies into their late 30s and early 40s.

Last edited by bungalow10 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.