11 Responses to Podcast #3 – Derek Webb Part 2

I’ve never pictured the bride of Christ (the Church) as having an “ugly head”. It comes across as if he has a skewed ecclesiology that confuses American Christianity (so-called) with the Church that Jesus proclaims He will build.

Scott: I share your concern. I do think Webb understands the gospel, and understands it well. His answer in Part I that the gospel is the inauguration of Christ’s renewal of all things is exactly right and, moreoever, is a thoroughly Reformed answer. Justification by faith alone in Christ alone is the beginning of gospel power in the individual soul, but the power that produced that faith will eventually redeem the entire cosmos and restore all things to perfection in and under Christ. Webb clearly understands the gospel in its cosmic scope.

However, he has the same kind of immaturity in his views of how the gospel produces proper ecclesiology and church life, as well as proper political and social influence and activism, that many artists have and that many never overcome. Bob Dylan and the Beatles may be good musical influences, and purely as musical influences there is not necessarily anything wrong with them. But they are not Christian musical influences, and therefore cannot help produce a thoroughly Christian view of all of life, including music, that Webb rightly claims to be seeking. Moreover, he appears too influenced by McLaren and other emergents, and even quotes Greg Boyd (openness theology pioneer) as some kind of authority. This is leading him to view the Church as having an “ugly head” and say things like “I need to be saved every day” and “I know I’m a hypocrite and don’t have it all figured out,” which is more than a statement of healthy Christian humility. It is a statement of resentment toward anyone who is more confident in classical Christian truth than Webb is comfortable with. Again, straight out of McLaren.

So, there is much good here, and we ought to be thankful for that, while praying Webb continues to grow in his faith and translate that growth into music that will edify the Church.

Oh, and Webb’s claim that he looked in the Reformed tradition for social and political thought and could find nobody but Tim Keller is staggering! John Calvin was the one who pioneered the application of Christianity to all realms of life more than any Protestant ever had, building heavily on Augustine’s *City of God*, and people like Abraham Kuyper in the Netherlands and later Francis Schaeffer in both the U.S. and Europe developed Reformed thought into a full-fledged social and political manifesto. What Webb appeared to be saying was that he couldn’t find any Reformed who were supporting the strain of pacifist thought he appears to want to follow. In this he is probably correct, as the Christian tradition is not a pacifist one, but one of just war – the recognition that there are some things worth fighting and dying for.

In part 2 of the interview, Derek went out of his way to make a point of about being clear and understood in his views, and yet after listening to him make this point, I feel UN-clear about several things that I had previously assumed about him.

For example, several things he said sounded exactly like Brian McLaren: not wanting to automatically identify himself as a Christian, not being labeled, and he mentioned something about how this puts him in a “better position” to “love” certain people in his community.

I am not making any firm accusations. I am simply stating that if it was clarity that Derek was going after, he didn’t do it.

In fact, I actually have more negative concerns about him than before I listened to the interview. Some of his language smacked of deconstructionism, and the fact that he has been influenced positively by Haerwaas is no cause for encouragement.

Tony: For the record, your interview with Webb, as an interview, was superb. Some interviewers are so anxious to interject their own views in an interview that they end up talking as much as or more than the interviewee! You asked all the right questions, and then let Webb speak. Nice going.