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And if you aren't going to vote, then you have nothing further to contribute. Fish or cut bait time, Feeb. You have a chance to have a voice in all the things you keep bitching about.

Voting for state worshipper A or state worshipper B hardly equates to having a voice. I could vote for myself I suppose. Combined with the couple of other votes I'm getting that'd make three. Watch out Democrats and Republicans. The feeble ticket is on a roll.

Besides, who's bitching? These elections offer up all kinds of entertainment. The real question is, do I want to see the Democrat elected and watch the Democrats be disappointed that nothing changes while the Republicans are suddenly crying that "government is not the answer" again or do I want the Republican to win and provide us with four more years of their brand of humor? Tough call.

Originally Posted by Sonnabend

Then when push comes to shove....you can't be bothered. Battles are won by those who show up.

This battle was over before it began.

Originally Posted by Sonnabend

If you dont vote then you have no business commenting over the next four years.

I disagree. If I vote for Obama and he wins, do I have any business commenting when he makes a mess of things? If I vote Obama and McCain wins, do I have any business commenting when McCain does something? Does being able to say "I voted for the Other Guy, it's not my fault" somehow outweigh "I didn't vote for either of these pinkos?"

Saying "I didnt vote" is saying "I like to bitch and moan but dont really want to do anything about it". See your vote plus a lot of others makes a difference.

It doesn't make a difference, but I think it's cute that you think it does.

So I guess the real thing to do is lie and say you voted for whoever lost. That way you get to legally bitch in the eyes of the voters, but the people who got elected aren't your fault. Then you can blame those lazy non-voters for just not "getting out the vote" and voting for your guy (who you didn't actually vote for of course).

Just another reason we should get rid of secret ballots. We can't have these non-voters lying about voting for people.

Just another reason we should get rid of secret ballots. We can't have these non-voters lying about voting for people.

What business is it of yours? You wont vote either way. You remind me a lot of a jerk I work with, he is full of complaints and problems...but no solutions.

He cares enough to complain but not enough to actually do something about it...and then criticises those that do solve things, because "It's not what he thinks is right". Yet when asked for his input...he says he doesnt care.

No, I still wouldn't vote, but I'd show up as not voting in the database. It would affect me the same as it would a voter.

Originally Posted by Sonnabend

You remind me a lot of a jerk I work with, he is full of complaints and problems...but no solutions.

He cares enough to complain but not enough to actually do something about it...and then criticises those that do solve things, because "It's not what he thinks is right". Yet when asked for his input...he says he doesnt care.

I have solutions, but they involve less government, so clearly they're not going to get much support on a Republican message board.

Voting doesn't solve anything. At best it presents an aura of legitimacy for the people who get elected, if you believe in that sort of thing. Frankly, I'd like to see voter participation drop from the 50% or so it hovers around now to 10% or less. That'd be great. You could see the president make a speech: "My fellow Americans, the 5% of the eligible voters that elected me show a clear mandate for my policies." hah

I have solutions, but they involve less government, so clearly they're not going to get much support on a Republican message board.

Why don't you vote third party? You sound like one of the many disenfranchised conservatives that might one day give the Libertarian Party or the Constitution Party a real shot at winning something. Sure, the only difference between the major parties anymore are that one is "tax and spend" and the other is "borrow and spend" - but to not vote at all? Just vote third party and never mind the cheerleaders who try to guilt trip you with this "if you don't vote for McCain, you're voting for Obama" nonsense. That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one.

Why don't you vote third party? You sound like one of the many disenfranchised conservatives that might one day give the Libertarian Party or the Constitution Party a real shot at winning something. Sure, the only difference between the major parties anymore are that one is "tax and spend" and the other is "borrow and spend" - but to not vote at all? Just vote third party and never mind the cheerleaders who try to guilt trip you with this "if you don't vote for McCain, you're voting for Obama" nonsense. That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one.

Morally: I have no interest in telling people how to live their lives or in delegating the power to do so to someone else.

Practically: It is never going to happen. Ever. The sooner the five or six of you who actually care about liberty get this through your thick skulls, the better.

The Republicans are never going to deliver smaller government to you. You are not going to change the Republican party. Every once in a while, when things look bad for them, they'll trot out someone who looks good and says the right things and you'll all go crawling back to them thinking this time will be different or that you're setting the stage to change things in just another four or eight years. You're fooling yourselves.

The Libertarians are so pathetic it's not even funny anymore. They picked a gun grabbing, drug warrior Republican as their candidate this time around and it will still be mind numbingly shocking if they break half a million votes.

The Constitution Party should whine about Jesus and Christian nations a little more. Maybe if God hears them He can provide the divine intervention it would require for them to beat even the Libertarians.

Bush: 62,028,285
Kerry: 59,028,109

This is what you're up against. 100 million of those will walk into the voting booth and pull either R or D just the way they have their entire life with no thought put into it whatsoever. Most of the other 21 million are going to pull the lever for whoever promises them the most money or looks the nicest. Put up a candidate truly interested in liberty and not more than a handful will vote for him. Freedom is scary and the other guys are offering tax breaks and free health care.

Assume for a moment there's a level playing field. That the ballot access laws aren't stacked against third parties. That the media won't ignore them other than to ridicule them. Now, give me a well reasoned plan on convincing 50 million of those people to vote for a guy that says "I will not increase funding for the Department of Education during my term."