I also own a higher-end full-array local dimming LCD (LG LH90) and I can see how important black or nearly all black performance would be important to you. At first, I was kind of underwhelmed by my 60ST50 coming from a high-end LCD. But the more I watched it, the more I appreciated the contrast in mid-high brightness content. That's what gives you that pop and wow factor. And let's face it... how often do you stare at black or mostly black screens? And that's not to say that Panasonic plasmas perform poor in dark scenes... MLL (minimum luminance level, measure on an all black screen) measures ~0.0018 - 0.0028fL, which is very good. For me, ANSI black has just as much importance as MLL black. When I compare the performance of black levels of flat panels, I factor in both.

With that said, I'm no LCD hater. However, I would not recommend low-midrange LCD models for HT enthusiasts or videophiles. I've said this in this thread before, but the lowest LED I would even consider for myself for my main HT would be the HX850. However it's more expensive than the ST50 and it doesn't offer any sizes above 55".

I bought the Insignia 50 inch LCD for 450 from Futureshop. So far, except for ridiculously short power cord, lol, it's been great. The blacks seem excellent in particular!

Note: They didn't want to sell me this. They directed me to the 120hz 50 inch for 500. I asked if there was a 60, for 450...."uh...there might be...I'd have to look it up".

Long pauses at computer (I also asked about a Sharp 42 on clearance), only to tell me that no, they did not have any. Continued conversation, and finally, I asked, "Could you look up whether they have any in stock in the (other local) store"? "Sure....um....I could do that".......(more long pauses).....(quietly)"actually, it says we do have a couple...I'd have to look and find them somewhere". Me: that'd be great. The guy went to the back and shortly wheeled out TV. Heh, seemed like a decent fellow, probably just under direction to push people other ways.

vertical white lines on screen so it'll have to go back. Hopefully I can get BB customer service to send me another one out and honour the boxing day price (since I'm going to return the physical unit to a local store that doesn't have stock anymore)

You mean the EH5000? The EH5000 is nothing to brag about in terms of color reproduction... there are many models that can match or surpass the EH5000 in terms of color accuracy. I'm a long time member/frequent poster at AVSForum/HighDefJunkies and I do my own calibrations, so I know how to gauge color accuracy by calibration reports or knowing what controls a set has for calibration. If you think it gives you better color than any other set, then I won't argue this... but from a technical standpoint, there are quite a few LED sets that outperform it... like the Sony HX850, HX929, HX950, Sharp Elite, LG LM9700, Samsung ES7000/8000 etc.

In terms of black levels, there are no edge-lit sets that can even come close to the ST50. The only time an edge-lit LCD will have decent black levels, is on a black screen, because the LEDs can shutoff. In terms of ANSI black levels, the measurement on a checkerboard pattern, which is a better representation of real content... edge-lit LCDs don't hold a candle to a good plasma.

Obviously I'm biased towards plasma, but I have been a long time LCD supporter. Plasma just offers better bang for buck now. At this point, the only time I would recommend an LCD, is to someone who has a lot of large windows, or someone who is a hardcore gamer that plays hours and hours a day without watching much else, or someone that prefers eye-searing brightness levels.

There is a reason that the ST50 is so popular and is getting praise everywhere... it offers performance close to the flagship model (VT50) at a fraction of the price. For reference, the VT50 won the annual 2012 flat panel shootout award, which is a gathering of some of the most respected professional calibrators in the world (Dewayne Davis, Kevin Miller, David Mackenzie of HDTVTest.co.uk etc.,) and HT enthusiasts that judge the top flat panels of the year, which included flat panels like the very expensive Sharp Elite, Samsung's flagship ES8000 LCD and E8000 plasma. All of the sets were professionally calibrated so they were judged on a level playing field.

Sorry I meant ES8000! I don't know how it I ended up with 5000 in there!

I think I'm going to pick up the Toshiba 46L5200U 46-Inch 1080p 120Hz LED TV. It was $575 when I checked amazon earlier but now it's gone back up to $599. Does anyone think it will go back down? It looks like amazon doesn't do price adjustments. Anyone think I could get a smart tv in this size for $100 more?

I also own a higher-end full-array local dimming LCD (LG LH90) and I can see how important black or nearly all black performance would be important to you. At first, I was kind of underwhelmed by my 60ST50 coming from a high-end LCD. But the more I watched it, the more I appreciated the contrast in mid-high brightness content. That's what gives you that pop and wow factor. And let's face it... how often do you stare at black or mostly black screens? And that's not to say that Panasonic plasmas perform poor in dark scenes... MLL (minimum luminance level, measure on an all black screen) measures ~0.0018 - 0.0028fL, which is very good. For me, ANSI black has just as much importance as MLL black. When I compare the performance of black levels of flat panels, I factor in both.

With that said, I'm no LCD hater. However, I would not recommend low-midrange LCD models for HT enthusiasts or videophiles. I've said this in this thread before, but the lowest LED I would even consider for myself for my main HT would be the HX850. However it's more expensive than the ST50 and it doesn't offer any sizes above 55".

i understand ANSI contrast is important. it just seems from my my experience that having a high ANSI contrast without having dark blacks doesn't matter though. it NEEDS both.

i would honestly still take a CRT over 90% of everything on the market today for this very reason. i watch most of tv/movies in a dark room, and i HATE it when you can clearly see the edge of the screen on dark scenes.

i feel that of what avail today, local dimming LED is the most likely to make me happy. i'm still not sure even the better plasmas get dark enough. the ST50, VT50 still hit .02 cd/m^2 which is good, in fact it's great compared to most. but my cheapo dynex LCD is only .05cd/m^2 and it's like friggin lighthouse compared to what i get from the tired and worn out CRT RPTV we have in the living room.

sounds like i am on my own with this one, but i just hate it when dark scenes light up my entire room. and i honest can't tell when black levels rise on bright scenes.

i understand ANSI contrast is important. it just seems from my my experience that having a high ANSI contrast without having dark blacks doesn't matter though. it NEEDS both.

i would honestly still take a CRT over 90% of everything on the market today for this very reason. i watch most of tv/movies in a dark room, and i HATE it when you can clearly see the edge of the screen on dark scenes.

i feel that of what avail today, local dimming LED is the most likely to make me happy. i'm still not sure even the better plasmas get dark enough. the ST50, VT50 still hit .02 cd/m^2 which is good, in fact it's great compared to most. but my cheapo dynex LCD is only .05cd/m^2 and it's like friggin lighthouse compared to what i get from the tired and worn out CRT RPTV we have in the living room.

sounds like i am on my own with this one, but i just hate it when dark scenes light up my entire room. and i honest can't tell when black levels rise on bright scenes.

The 2012 Panasonic plasmas aren't 0.02cdm2... they're ~0.006-0.009cdm2... that's ~82-88% lower than 0.05cdm2. 0.006-0.009cdm2 MLL with an ANSI contrast ratio of over 8,000:1 is pretty damn impressive and makes for a very nice picture if you ask me. But to each their own.

If you want a set that has respectable ANSI black levels and ~0cdm2 MLL that's somewhat affordable, I think the HX850 is your best bet. But I'm telling you, the ST50 performs at least as good for a fraction of the price.

Sorry I meant ES8000! I don't know how it I ended up with 5000 in there!

Well in that case, the ES8000 does have very good color accuracy once calibrated, but it's not untouchable like you say. Even the ST50 isn't far behind in terms of color accuracy, has a much higher contrast ratio and is still significantly cheaper than the price you paid for the ES8000. Plus you're lucky to get a 55ES8000 for less than $2000, whereas you can get the 55ST50 for less than $1300.

My 60inch Samsung 550 came today... thing is bigger than I thought! Think I will use it for a couple weeks and decide if we should keep it or take a step down in size.. Future Shop return...so I guess it is 30 days...

The 2012 Panasonic plasmas aren't 0.02cdm2... they're ~0.006-0.009cdm2... that's ~82-88% lower than 0.05cdm2. 0.006-0.009cdm2 MLL with an ANSI contrast ratio of over 8,000:1 is pretty damn impressive and makes for a very nice picture if you ask me. But to each their own.

something is screwy. if true, maybe there is hope. i found my info for both tv's(the dynex) and the ST/VT50 from the same review site, so i figured that was a good comparison. perhaps they are testing it 'wrong' but i assumed it should be 'wrong' for all displays compared, which leads me to believe regardless of the actual number, the VT50 is probably only half as bright as the dynex when displaying black. i mean, .05 or .000000005 means nothing to me without some context. my context was the dynex. i thought it had OK blacks, but was nowhere near where a good CRT was. so i used it as my 'cutoff'. anything higher was immediately disregarded.

televisioninfo are possibly the worst HDTV reviewers on the net. I have followed the 2012 Panasonic plasmas closely because I bought one myself. I have measured my own 60ST50 at 0.009cdm2 and have seen ST50's measure as low as 0.0075. VT50s have been measured as low as 0.0062cdm2.

It's possible that televisioninfo didn't age their panel before reviewing (I wouldn't be surprised)... any good reviewer would do this with a plasma. Black levels get significantly better after 150-200hrs on the 2012 Panasonic plasmas.