GerryAZ wrote:My 2015 LEAF is doing much better than the 2011 (both original and replacement batteries). I am disappointed to hear of so many 30 kWh batteries in milder climates losing capacity bars at low mileage. My 2015 with original battery has 48,653 miles and 11 capacity bars right now as I am using the third QC in the past 8 hours.

GerryAZ wrote:My 2015 LEAF is doing much better than the 2011 (both original and replacement batteries). I am disappointed to hear of so many 30 kWh batteries in milder climates losing capacity bars at low mileage. My 2015 with original battery has 48,653 miles and 11 capacity bars right now as I am using the third QC in the past 8 hours.

DaveinOlyWA wrote:51,000 miles in THE worst possible conditions is AMAZING!

Your expectations are rock bottom.

Gerry has a fair chance of reaching end of life just past the five year warranty.How many people are going to choose a new car that has a buillt-in $6000 bill and uncertain battery replacement quality after 5 years of ownership ? Not many, unless the new car price is $10k.

DaveinOlyWA wrote:51,000 miles in THE worst possible conditions is AMAZING!

Your expectations are rock bottom.

Gerry has a fair chance of reaching end of life just past the five year warranty.How many people are going to choose a new car that has a buillt-in $6000 bill and uncertain battery replacement quality after 5 years of ownership ? Not many, unless the new car price is $10k.

My car may be down to 8 capacity bars after five years if the deterioration rate stays about the same, but it will have somewhere between 80,000 and 90,000 miles by then. Since my off-peak power costs are so low, it will have saved enough in fuel and routine maintenance costs to more than cover the cost of a new battery when compared to my motorcycle (also legal in carpool lane). It is saving me at least 1/2 hour per day, 5 days per week in commuting time in addition to even more fuel and maintenance cost savings compared to a midsize car so I am happy with it. Based upon my experience with the 2011, there will be very little useable energy left in the battery after my 52-mile roundtrip commute once the battery gets down to 8 capacity bars. If my commute is shorter or I retire, I should be able to get several more years of use from the original battery after it drops to 8 capacity bars. If I am still making the same commute, it will make sense to replace the battery after it gets down to 8 capacity bars.

Some writers on this forum seem to think that there is no acceptable amount of battery deterioration even though all batteries (regardless of chemical type, cooling method, and use) deteriorate over time. I accept faster battery deterioration on electric vehicles along with higher routine maintenance costs on gasoline engine vehicles as part of the cost of living in the hot desert climate.

DaveinOlyWA wrote:51,000 miles in THE worst possible conditions is AMAZING!

Your expectations are rock bottom.

Gerry has a fair chance of reaching end of life just past the five year warranty.How many people are going to choose a new car that has a buillt-in $6000 bill and uncertain battery replacement quality after 5 years of ownership ? Not many, unless the new car price is $10k.

My car may be down to 8 capacity bars after five years if the deterioration rate stays about the same, but it will have somewhere between 80,000 and 90,000 miles by then. Since my off-peak power costs are so low, it will have saved enough in fuel and routine maintenance costs to more than cover the cost of a new battery when compared to my motorcycle (also legal in carpool lane). It is saving me at least 1/2 hour per day, 5 days per week in commuting time in addition to even more fuel and maintenance cost savings compared to a midsize car so I am happy with it. Based upon my experience with the 2011, there will be very little useable energy left in the battery after my 52-mile roundtrip commute once the battery gets down to 8 capacity bars. If my commute is shorter or I retire, I should be able to get several more years of use from the original battery after it drops to 8 capacity bars. If I am still making the same commute, it will make sense to replace the battery after it gets down to 8 capacity bars.

Some writers on this forum seem to think that there is no acceptable amount of battery deterioration even though all batteries (regardless of chemical type, cooling method, and use) deteriorate over time. I accept faster battery deterioration on electric vehicles along with higher routine maintenance costs on gasoline engine vehicles as part of the cost of living in the hot desert climate.

well said.

I think part of it is simply a huge variety of need being forced into a single slot. The amazing response when the 40 kwh LEAF was announced is pretty indicative of an all or nothing mentality.

For me; I would not be happy with anything greater than 2-3% annual degradation simply because my driving needs really can't accept that. That is why I leased the S30 but the 2018 could be a one worth buying... off lease of course. Just because it works for me doesn't mean I will spend more money than I have to.

Gerry has a fair chance of reaching end of life just past the five year warranty.How many people are going to choose a new car that has a buillt-in $6000 bill and uncertain battery replacement quality after 5 years of ownership ? Not many, unless the new car price is $10k.

My car may be down to 8 capacity bars after five years if the deterioration rate stays about the same, but it will have somewhere between 80,000 and 90,000 miles by then. Since my off-peak power costs are so low, it will have saved enough in fuel and routine maintenance costs to more than cover the cost of a new battery when compared to my motorcycle (also legal in carpool lane). It is saving me at least 1/2 hour per day, 5 days per week in commuting time in addition to even more fuel and maintenance cost savings compared to a midsize car so I am happy with it. Based upon my experience with the 2011, there will be very little useable energy left in the battery after my 52-mile roundtrip commute once the battery gets down to 8 capacity bars. If my commute is shorter or I retire, I should be able to get several more years of use from the original battery after it drops to 8 capacity bars. If I am still making the same commute, it will make sense to replace the battery after it gets down to 8 capacity bars.

Some writers on this forum seem to think that there is no acceptable amount of battery deterioration even though all batteries (regardless of chemical type, cooling method, and use) deteriorate over time. I accept faster battery deterioration on electric vehicles along with higher routine maintenance costs on gasoline engine vehicles as part of the cost of living in the hot desert climate.

well said.

I think part of it is simply a huge variety of need being forced into a single slot. The amazing response when the 40 kwh LEAF was announced is pretty indicative of an all or nothing mentality.

For me; I would not be happy with anything greater than 2-3% annual degradation simply because my driving needs really can't accept that. That is why I leased the S30 but the 2018 could be a one worth buying... off lease of course. Just because it works for me doesn't mean I will spend more money than I have to.

2.5% degradation per year would be acceptable to most people. After all, that's what Nissan promised ( 80% capacity after 8 years). 30% after 3-5 years isn't. At this point you would be foolish not to lease. Maybe buy it at the end of lease if the battery holds up or if you can get a great deal on it. NIssan hasn't demonstrated any ability to build a durable battery or to stand behind the product. They will only replace the battery if it fails their warranty criteria even if you can show an excessive loss over time. Buying a new Leaf outright when battery failures are common is just asking for trouble.

GerryAZ wrote:My car may be down to 8 capacity bars after five years if the deterioration rate stays about the same, but it will have somewhere between 80,000 and 90,000 miles by then. Since my off-peak power costs are so low, it will have saved enough in fuel and routine maintenance costs to more than cover the cost of a new battery when compared to my motorcycle (also legal in carpool lane). It is saving me at least 1/2 hour per day, 5 days per week in commuting time in addition to even more fuel and maintenance cost savings compared to a midsize car so I am happy with it. Based upon my experience with the 2011, there will be very little useable energy left in the battery after my 52-mile roundtrip commute once the battery gets down to 8 capacity bars. If my commute is shorter or I retire, I should be able to get several more years of use from the original battery after it drops to 8 capacity bars. If I am still making the same commute, it will make sense to replace the battery after it gets down to 8 capacity bars.

Some writers on this forum seem to think that there is no acceptable amount of battery deterioration even though all batteries (regardless of chemical type, cooling method, and use) deteriorate over time. I accept faster battery deterioration on electric vehicles along with higher routine maintenance costs on gasoline engine vehicles as part of the cost of living in the hot desert climate.

well said.

I think part of it is simply a huge variety of need being forced into a single slot. The amazing response when the 40 kwh LEAF was announced is pretty indicative of an all or nothing mentality.

For me; I would not be happy with anything greater than 2-3% annual degradation simply because my driving needs really can't accept that. That is why I leased the S30 but the 2018 could be a one worth buying... off lease of course. Just because it works for me doesn't mean I will spend more money than I have to.

2.5% degradation per year would be acceptable to most people. After all, that's what Nissan promised ( 80% capacity after 8 years). 30% after 3-5 years isn't. At this point you would be foolish not to lease. Maybe buy it at the end of lease if the battery holds up or if you can get a great deal on it. NIssan hasn't demonstrated any ability to build a durable battery or to stand behind the product. They will only replace the battery if it fails their warranty criteria even if you can show an excessive loss over time. Buying a new Leaf outright when battery failures are common is just asking for trouble.

That is the plan and if Nissan continues to offer leases with super low rent charges, it makes no sense to buy. Leasing give the entire tax credit up front and a 3 year test drive to boot. Best part is right now the market is so volatile, its hard to predict the value of these things. 2018 SV residual is like 11,200ish or so? But if it not worth that in 2021 its just another opportunity for a good deal.

I recently checked my newish 2016 battery in my 2012 Leaf and I was quite disappointed to find that it has already degraded to 91% SOH after 2 summers. I'm beginning to think the "new improved chemistry" isn't much/any better than the original. We were going to keep the Leaf when my Model 3 came in, and eventually sell the Model 3 to one of two of my friends who are begging for it. But, now I'm thinking the Leaf has to go. Maybe someone in a cooler climate will have it transported to a better environment. I can't believe that Nissan still hasn't gotten their act together in the 2018 Leaf, still no TMS.