re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by gatorhata9 on 10/6/12 at 9:42 am to Tigerfan7218)

quote:I agree. Awful late call, but otherwise within the rule

No it was not.

quote:The infield fly rule specifically states that it is to be used on a fair fly ball "which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort." Kozma's was not an ordinary effort (which was the argument Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez made in his protest, which was quickly overturned by the MLB officials on hand). Second, the rule states that "when it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare Infield Fly for the benefit of the runners." In this case, Holbrook didn't signal for the infield fly rule until the ball was more than half-way through its descent, mere moments before Kozma flinched and the ball hit the outfield grass.

Also, watch the play again. He doesn't call the infield fly until right before it hits the ground. It really looks like that call was contingent on the ball not being caught, which I can't wrap my head around right now.

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by gatorhata9 on 10/6/12 at 9:46 am to shel311)

quote:The rule states the call is to be made "when it seems apparent", so i have no clue what you mean about "umpiring 101"

quote:When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare ?Infield Fly? for the benefit of the runners.

The second part of the statement is key, "for the benefit of the runners. That's one of the reasons why the rule is in place. Because the runners were taking their normal leads on balls hit to the outfield, they were in no danger of being doubled up. This makes the infield fly rule unnecessary.

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by mizzoukills on 10/6/12 at 10:08 am to Zach)

I'll admit that the Cards have experienced some luck. Last night wasn't an instance of luck. We were 3 runs ahead with 1 out and the best closer in baseball pitching. I don't think the Braves would've scored 3 runs anyhow.

Here's the difference. The Cards don't rely on luck...they play to win. Like Alabama football fans, Cardinals fans expect our team to win and the team returns their fans' investment in them with spirited inspirational play on the field year in and year out.

That's Cardinal baseball...the the culture of Cardinal Nation.

On the other hand, the Braves simply aren't a winning club like the Cardinals. Not to say that the Braves haven't done great things...they just met a better team last night.

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by RandySavage on 10/6/12 at 10:37 am to mizzoukills)

quote:Here's the difference. The Cards don't rely on luck...they play to win. Like Alabama football fans, Cardinals fans expect our team to win and the team returns their fans' investment in them with spirited inspirational play on the field year in and year out.

That's Cardinal baseball...the the culture of Cardinal Nation.

Were you fapping to pictures of Tony LaRussa, Bob Gibson, or Mark McGwire when you typed that? Seriously, what a gay arse bitch post. You finished like 6 games back of a Wildcard position. Where was this fighting spirit all season?

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by hiltacular on 10/6/12 at 10:49 am to mizzoukills)

quote:I'll admit that the Cards have experienced some luck. Last night wasn't an instance of luck. We were 3 runs ahead with 1 out and the best closer in baseball pitching. I don't think the Braves would've scored 3 runs anyhow.

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by RedHawk on 10/6/12 at 11:15 am to hiltacular)

It was an awful call and one of the worst I have ever seen. Even if the infielder was trying to drop the ball on purpose, there was no way they were going to be able to turn a double play, let alone get one force out. That ball was hit 50 feet into the outfield.

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by LSUPHILLY72 on 10/6/12 at 12:14 pm to RandySavage)

quote:Anyone defending this call should kill themselves. Or at least never watch/play sports again.

I will defend it...but posting the ACTUAL RULE:

quote:An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule. When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare ?Infield Fly? for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare ?Infield Fly, if Fair.?

The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul. If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball. If a declared Infield Fly falls untouched to the ground outside the baseline, and bounces fair before passing first or third base, it is an Infield Fly.

Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder?not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire?s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire?s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately. When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05 (L). The infield fly rule takes precedence.

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by hiltacular on 10/6/12 at 12:43 pm to LSUPHILLY72)

That rule completely ignores the location of the actual hit. All it says is "infield", well news flash, the hit last night sure as shite wasn't in the infield. Once a ball enters the outfield, it should not longer matter if its an infielder or outfielder catching the ball.

This is like in football when a qb takes off on a running play and he is no longer considered a qb and thus the rules that previously applied no longer do. When an infielder enters the outfield, he should no longer be considered and infielder. The rule is outdated as frick

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by Stagg8 on 10/6/12 at 12:48 pm to hiltacular)

quote:All it says is "infield", well news flash, the hit last night sure as shite wasn't in the infield. Once a ball enters the outfield, it should not longer matter if its an infielder or outfielder catching the ball.

This is about as wrong as you can be.

quote:When an infielder enters the outfield, he should no longer be considered and infielder. The rule is outdated as frick

Virtually every infielder in the majors and probably some little leaguers can easily turn a double play if they let a ball drop in the shallow outfield.

The call was terrible because of just how far the ball actually drifted and the late manner in which the call was made. The spirit of the ruling as it is written is absolutely correct and understood by anyone who understands the game (and how a shallow fly can be exploited by an infielder with an IQ above 40 and a decent arm).

re: It's not that the call was made, it's when the call was made(Posted by LSUPHILLY72 on 10/6/12 at 12:52 pm to hiltacular)

quote:

quote:An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.

quote:That rule completely ignores the location of the actual hit.

The Rule is not based on the location of the hit...it is based on whether or not, someone stationed in the infield can catch a fly with reasonable effort. Clearly the shortstop was in position when the ump made the correct call.

The rule is to protect the batting team FYI. To keep them from dropping it on purpose to get an easy double play