Small axe, while your chiming in with your perspective on things, I would also love to hear your perspective on another topic. Keep in mind your climate is completely opposite of ours. Some say not to apply ferts after September. However our temperatures for the season don't drop until October/November. While you guys temps. may drop way earlier. Obviously, this late in the season you don't want something high in nitrogen, but from my understanding it would be helpful to have something with a higher formula on the last two. For example 5-10-15 (http://www.lowes.com/pd_92506-303-46...ductId=3582000) or even a 0-10-15 (If I could locate it) in the October/November months when are temps. are still in the 80's and also before the cool season kicks in. While I believe it would benefit us with warm season grasses to stay away from nitrogen in late season, it seems to me as if a 0-10-15 or 5-10-15 might be of some benefit for building a healthy turf. While my perspective could be completely wrong, I would love to hear your input on this. Debates and discussions tend to teach me more than textbooks, hence why I love staying on the forum so much and I would love to hear your input on this.

And you're asking someone from Wisconsin who has no experience with anything regarding turf in Texas???

Hey guys,
I think something that is really holding me back is getting my lawns looking really nice. Since I refuse to use any non organic chemicals I am very limited. I have milorganite organic fertilizer, but that is it. Are there any organic post selective herbicides? I would really appreciate any help.
thanks so much

For homeowners, go to http://www.gardensalive.com/-font-si...ize-5-/p/3721/
This is an all natural selective weed killer. Is it as effective as chemical herbicides? No, but it can be useful as part of an overall natural turf program.
Proper turf seed choice, moving, irrigation and adding organic matter are all important factors in a successful program.

I read your last sentence also, and it seems like a statement that holds it's worth. I agree if you build with organics, the soil structure will build overtime, but like you said, it's hard to build solely on organics without addition to the most needed nutrients that most syn ferts also include.

While I don't see nothing wrong with either, they give us what we need in some way or another, I see the most difficult challenge is distinguishing between which organic products are a "gimmick" and which ones actually provide us with those micro nutrients and organisms. I also see a challenge when you solely depend on "organics" or solely on "syn." In my opinion if you find the correct balance "organics" and the correct "synferts" you could have the best of both worlds, but I think it all boils down to determining exactly what your soil has in it and exactly what it needs. But I would agree that depending soley on "organics" isn't going to provide you with what you need to have a quick green up, which is what a lot of people out there are looking for, UNLESS you find something that is high in N obviously.

It might be helpful to think of Organics as a "Whole Organism" while thinking of fertilizer as Vitamin C...

So much of Botany occurs at the microscopic level and Microbes have been absolutely necessary to all life on the planet and every living thing relies upon it... there are microbes to utilize the Vitamin C but what if our microbes were not able to digest protein???

I have to leave now, but it is interesting to think about HOW organics work,,, and WHY synferts also work...
Only in slightly different ways... so stop thinking of organic products being mere replacements for synthetic products... it goes way beyond the NPK in 5-7 apps...

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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage,,, I wonder what does...
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It might be helpful to think of Organics as a "Whole Organism" while thinking of fertilizer as Vitamin C...

So much of Botany occurs at the microscopic level and Microbes have been absolutely necessary to all life on the planet and every living thing relies upon it... there are microbes to utilize the Vitamin C but what if our microbes were not able to digest protein???

I have to leave now, but it is interesting to think about HOW organics work,,, and WHY synferts also work...
Only in slightly different ways... so stop thinking of organic products being mere replacements for synthetic products... it goes way beyond the NPK in 5-7 apps...

Exactly why I directed my post towards him. While I'm far from knowing half as much as some of the people here, I learn more from deliberating and debating subjects and getting a better understanding of those who've been doing this for a living, apposed to depending solely on research.That's why I love this forum!

Here's the schedule I came up with for my Zoysia. I have yet to use a Fungicide treatment with the exception of Corn Meal, so I plan to keep CM in my routine. Also note, my lawn will be irrigated with exactly 1" through the growing season and 1/2" a week during the cooler months, and 1" a month during the winter months (which aren't extremely cold here.) I will also be mowing every week, once a week to fight off weeds. Zoysia is a very dense turf and naturally fights weeds when taken care of, note I am planning to keep herbicides and fungicides out of my schedule. I've done not hours, but hours, hours, hours, long nights, and long days into the research. I see an advantage to organic products and improving the soil with application after application, but I did not substitute "Organics" for "Synthetics", while I also tried to avoid the use of herbicides, fungicides, and too many chemicals. Note, on the Zoysia, I plan to compost first in early spring, while not applying a chemical fertilizer until after the second mowing.

I've heard and read many stories that will turn anyone to both sides of the road, so I decided, why not test it for myself? We have a duplex property with about 1,5000 sq. feet front and back on both sides of the property divided by a large concrete drive way. So better yet, instead of reading this, trying this, trying that, I decided to see what works best for me.

Here's the schedule I will be following for our newly laid Zoysia side. I kept chemical ferts to around 3 lbs. total of nitrogen for a year and will be using the "organics" to hopefully build the soil overtime. On the other side of the property I plan to use straight 15-5-10 throughout the year.

As I mentioned above, it is a very controversial subject. Some researchers say one thing benefits, while others say another benefits. Some have better results with one thing, while others might have better results with something else. Could it be that it depends on the "needs" of the soil? Well I came to conclusion there's no better way to find out than trying both methods and seeing which one works best. We have to lawns divided by about 400 sq. feet of drive way, so it will make an easy "side by side" comparison. Hopefully, by the end of next year and the following year, I will know what works best for "our" soil and lawn.

Do you really need 1" of water a week? Do your soil's drain that fast?

Agrostics, that goes back to what we were discussing earlier. Which is where the rain gauge comes in real handy. However, my grass calls for 1" to 1 1/4" a week. I will obviously using the gauge to determine how much water for each week, but under drought times and summer months I will be giving it an inch a week. When the whether cools like now, I will be dropping that, when the spring rain arrives, that will be dropped according to the rain gauge. Honestly, I think from what I've seen so far, Zoysia will survive with less than an inch. But, why deprive the grass of one of the most essential need, especially when our summer temps. are very rarely below 100. As of right now, daily temperatures are dropping into the lower 90's and high 80's, so obviously less water is needed, but when temperatures are soaring above 100 I plan to go ahead and utilize that whole inch a week.

You've been following my lawn a long ways, I think the timing worked out in my favor. You know I kept it constantly watered last month, but now temperatures started dropping just about the time I made the cutback.

I done caught the USPS man and a Police Officer parked outside my front door taking a peek at the lawn, twice in one week.

Edit* I didn't add thatching, nor aeration to my list above, but it will defiantly be on there before it's printed.

I think it's cool that your getting into your turf so heavily. Most people just want to see green and it stop's there. You would make a good a horticulturist.

Your plan look's good, i see enough synthetic nitrogen that no matter what else you do you will have healthy grass, it's simple and that's a good sign. I wish i knew more about organic's so i could say whether or not the other product's were effective. The way you have two yard's side by side to experiment with is probably the best way to see what kind of result's you can get. Just remember that organic's are a long term proposition and that to get real result's is a long term (like a couple of year's) thing. Your also using zoysia, which in the summer will have hardly any weed pressure to begin with, i think that in the winter, when the grass is growing much more slowly, will give you a much better indication.

How your program handle's disease pressure is (i think) much more important. I have to question established zoysia in Austin needing 1"- 1-1/4" of water a week. I think you read something the wrong way. Using this -

i only come up with .53 of water a week, that's in Austin in full sun with no rain. .43 in. in partial shade with no rain. I think this is important because you don't want to overwater zoysia, it will weaken the turf, inviting disease and weed pressure.