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Author
Topic: Legal Situation (Read 15731 times)

I was outed by my employer after disclosing to my HR manager about my HIV status. It all came about when I needed a day off for a doctor's appointment. Which she in turn shared with my supervisor and it all snowballed from there. This supervisor then put something on her facebook page about me. I was totally oblivious to the situation until someone brought it to me. Is there any legal steps I can take and if so would anyone happen to know a good lawyer in the Mississippi area?

Hey there. It certainly sounds like you have some sort of case. I am actually going to "report" this post so that it can get moved to a more proper forum department on here than this one....which is for the AMG events we have every year.

For one thing, HR people aren't typically trained in employee counseling and their advice may not be so great. But that's the least of your potential worries when you lay out your troubles with an HR type. Human-resources people typically follow a confidentiality guideline known as the "Need to Know" standard. Here's how it works: When an employee comes to HR with a problem and asks that the conversation stay in confidence, the HR person can say, "Oh, absolutely. I will only share our conversation with others on a 'Need to Know' basis."

Well, what the heck kind of standard is that? I have asked HR people about this slippery standard for years, but I have never met one who can produce a written definition of it. I don't think such a thing exists. It's funny, too, because HR people document every other imaginable standard and protocol, from the number of pay-per-view movies an employee is allowed to watch during his business-travel hotel stays to the exact relatives whose death could entitle an employee for bereavement leave (grandmother, yes; step-grandmother, no). HR people are documentation and policy fiends. But the Need to Know protocol stands alone, undefined. And the risk is all yours.

If she posted your medical situation on her FB page, you can pretty much OWN the woman. I am in the process of going after my employer for firing my because of my medical situation. It's NOT fun and one HECK of an involved process.

Does an employer have an obligation to protect any information you've shared with them? I don't know...just asking. I'm sure they have to protect your social security number and that kind of stuff. I know here in KY, a former employer cannot tell a perspective employer that you were fired or anything about your work performance. They can only give your dates of employment. But, if you disclosed something about yourself, do they legally have to protect that info as a doctor would? If they were to fire you and/or harass you, then you'd have a discrimination and wrongful termination case for sure.

I'm curious what the woman said on FB about you. Even if it wasn't derrogatory, it was still wrong for her to post about it. I'm not sure what a person would post about someone having HIV on a public Wall that would even be right to do. I mean, unless a person was very open about having HIV and raising money or something for HIV research and they posted to get people to donate.

It is protected by healthcare providers. If you tell a coworker you have HIV or diabetes or a cold sore they can legally tell whomever they like. I am not sure if an HR representative, which is different than an EAP, is bound by any form of confidentiality. However even if they are not bound legally by confidentiality still doesn't mean you can't sue them. A lawyer really needs to address this issue. Any legal experts on here?

"While HIPAA may not impact you directly, the Americans with Disabilities Act (ďADA) probably does. Under the auspices of the ADA, strict confidentiality requirements on medical information obtained from applicants and employees, regardless of whether they have disabilities or not, must be adhered to at all times. Under ADA guidelines, such information must be collected on separate forms and maintained in confidential medical files."

Or you can talk to people at your local ASO (AIDS Services Organization). If you don't know how to find one, there is a directory on this site where you can search by zip code for something close to you. Its at http://directory.poz.com/

Federal Courts have consistently held that there is a constitutional right to privacy that protects an individual from the disclosure of information concerning a personís health, including that personís HIV status.

You should seek the counsel of an attorney who understands HIV disclosure issues in Mississippi. Assurbanal is correct that a local ASO may lead you in the right direction.

The more difficult issue is that the information is now public. You've been outed, and the information cannot be put back. If you sue your employer (and it would be the employer, not the individual who outed you), they would probably dismiss you, resulting in you suing for wrongful dismissal. This would be draining, and probably take many years.

These are not easy issues to deal with. Sorry it's happened to you.

I "came out" with my status to my ex-boss for a specific reason, but made it clear to him that if he disclosed to anyone, I would sue him to the ends of the earth (I trusted him). He never disclosed once I informed him of the penalties if he did (State law had VERY large penalties for this). It's a calculated risk I took. You, unfortunately, didn't get this option (per your description). Did you ask the HR rep not to disclose? Would it have been presumed that she wouldn't because she represented HR? These are the questions a lawyer would ask, and that would help in building your case.

This is basically the consequence of telling anyone about your status. I feel it always do badly than good. People most of the times are not trustworthy. Even if now you may have a winning case, I donít think it would be advisable to go through all of the ladders to get that result. Why should you! Anyways, if this all results in awful to you work/life better you contact your ASO who obviously can give you legal advises and protect your right. .

OH my---Detective Skeebo, that could be the reason for his sudden disappearance.

The lady that runs the HR department at work is a 4'8" Sicilian, and reminds me of Sammy the Bull. I told her my status, so if my car suddenly blasts 90 feet in the air I want you all to say something....

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

This man is, I think, sick. Look the two posts he made back in April. His computer should totally be banned.

1 Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits / Mental Health & HIV / Re: I hate my life on: April 20, 2011, 05:52:11 am I totally feel you. I was outed myself by the company I work for after putting my foot in my mouth and sharing with my HR manager my HIV status. Which she in turn shared with my supervisor who through such a shallow mind put something on her facebook page about me having HIV. I was totally oblivious to the situation until someone brought it to my attention. Since that time I had to get some counseling. Would you know if there is some kind of legal action I can take?

2 Main Forums / Living With HIV / Legal Situation on: April 20, 2011, 05:42:20 am I was outed by my employer after disclosing to my HR manager about my HIV status. It all came about when I needed a day off for a doctor's appointment. Which she in turn shared with my supervisor and it all snowballed from there. This supervisor then put something on her facebook page about me. I was totally oblivious to the situation until someone brought it to me. Is there any legal steps I can take and if so would anyone happen to know a good lawyer in the Mississippi area?

This man is, I think, sick. Look the two posts he made back in April. His computer should totally be banned.

By your criteria, maybe YOU should also be banned. After all, you are totally ashamed and paranoid when it comes to your virus. You constantly tell people to hide their hiv status at all costs. You could also be deemed "sick", by which I take it you mean having a mental illness. That's what your level of shame and paranoia boarders on - mental illness.

However, we will not ban you or anyone else for something like this. People like the two of you (you and the original poster) need our support, not banishment.

You obviously have a lot of anger, shame and paranoia surrounding your infection and perhaps it's time you sought counselling for that.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Of course I have. It is not only me ... and everyone with sane mentality has?

Is this not normal to be ashamed of this infection? This is a problem I personally created in my life and will grieve over for life. Period.

It is just a virus. do you feel shame when you catch a cold infection? that is a virus too!Yes -- it is a shock and, Yes, it has a far worse impact than a cold virus -- but it is still just a virus. Yes -- you could have avoided it by having safe sex, but many can avoid heart attacks by eating right and exercising -- do people feel ashamed of having heart attacks?No -- the shame comes from outside -- the shame is based on HOW we contract this virus, not that we have it. Pretty much everyone on this planet has sex at some point. The fact that there is such feelings around sex has always baffled me -- although growing up Catholic, I get why people get this way.

At any rate -- you have to come to terms with this. You can't undo the past, so work to get past this shame and get past the need to grieve. YOU ONLY HAVE A VIRUS. Get on with your living and enjoying your life.

Of course I have. It is not only me ... and everyone with sane mentality has?

Is this not normal to be ashamed of this infection? This is a problem I personally created in my life and will grieve over for life. Period.

Thank you Mike, you to the words right outta my mouth.

I have absolutely NO shame over my virus. Why should I? As Mike said, I got it doing something nearly everyone over the age of sixteen has done - I had sex without a condom. Big deal.

Once in a while it pisses me off a bit that I have hiv, but not very often. While I think about hiv nearly every day (because of this website), I rarely really think about my own virus. I've got better things to think about.

Metekrop, please find someone (like a counsellor or therapist) to discuss these issues of yours surrounding your virus before it eats you alive.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

It is just a virus. do you feel shame when you catch a cold infection? that is a virus too!Yes -- it is a shock and, Yes, it has a far worse impact than a cold virus -- but it is still just a virus. Yes -- you could have avoided it by having safe sex, but many can avoid heart attacks by eating right and exercising -- do people feel ashamed of having heart attacks?No -- the shame comes from outside -- the shame is based on HOW we contract this virus, not that we have it. Pretty much everyone on this planet has sex at some point. The fact that there is such feelings around sex has always baffled me -- although growing up Catholic, I get why people get this way.

At any rate -- you have to come to terms with this. You can't undo the past, so work to get past this shame and get past the need to grieve. YOU ONLY HAVE A VIRUS. Get on with your living and enjoying your life.

Mike

I donít know if there was discussion in this forum asking a question like ďÖHow did I get the HIVĒ. Oh ha. No body wants to talk about that. The shame with this ďvirusĒ is by and large associated with the way how one got it which is allegedly believed it is shameful sexual practice. You may say it might be accidental but let set this aside for nowÖ.This is not like talking about cold virus or even cancer disease. Yea, you can say that you can avoid the cold virus by keeping yourself nice and clean. But this is not the case with acquiring the HIV. People can, should and will do sex but still can remain free of HIV. What determines here is what did you do special to install that f*n virus in you. I remember sometime last year when one person saying ďpeople who got the HIV, it is because they deserve itĒ Have you ever seen the validityof his words.

Being confident enough, the original poster of this tread was trying to tell us that he told his HR manager his status and is now about to face the problem. (Which later I believe he is telling a lie). But if this was true, was it okay to tell everybody about his status. Should you feel proud of you infection at all? I donít think so. May be if I am not employed or think that I have no future and worthless; I might need to tell anyone to get some sort of support. Else I only disclose my status whenever it is appropriate to do. I donít believe it is appropriate to put your life at risk by telling everyone of your status like some people are telling us. The story told us by the guys can be taken as hypothetical one.

However, you are right that you canít undo the past. But you should always keep on grieving about your past.

Feeling proud and not feeling shame are two different concepts. I'm proud of myself. Since hiv is a part of me, I guess you could also say I'm proud of my virus, but that's not really the case. I'm certainly not ashamed of my virus and nothing you or anyone else could say or do anything to make me feel ashamed about it.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

You do know how babies are made, right? That damn shameful sex is to blame there too, but people usually brag about their kids.

Did you really get the virus in your attempt to get a baby? Ö.Did you really, Anna?... Please tell me on this ...Answer also the following question. How did you do the sex? In what situation were you in when doing sex? Did you practice safe sex? Whom did you do sex? In what state of mind you were in while sexing? etc etc. The answer for these and such other questions will answer to the misapprehension you have of the virus in you. And this what I am saying I am always guilty of.

Else, I thank you for recommending me for mental health professional. But now I can assure you that I am a wonderful man, taking responsibility, striving to grow, advising and helping people and doing everything possible to lead my own life properly. The reason now why I am this kind of person is because I am grieving of my past and learned a lot from that. I can't simply say that I am not ashamed of my past. People are different may be or because this is the Ameican way of life.

Metekrop, your guilt and distress regarding your infection is self-imposed. I don't know why you feel that way. I only respond because if you are suggesting that Ann or they rest of us should feel guilty that we acquired HIV then you are just wrong. You are taking your unnecessary guilt trip by yourself.

So this means that anyone who acquired it via intravenous drug use, blood tranfusion (hemophilia), rape (providing she/he didn't 'ask for it' by dressing inappropriately, needle stick (healthcare-related) or mother-to-child transmission, can feel good about their relationship to the virus. Is that what you are stating? Getting it via sex is cause for guilt?

Even with sex, there would be some circunstances I won't be ashamed, for example condom brekage, or in a monogamous relationship when one partner has cheated the other, get the virus, and infects the other partner.

But I feel very much like metekrop, I mean, how someone on this decade would have sex without condom with a trick (well, in my case, I meet this guy twice). Ok, the guy assured me he was neg...but I was more than capable just to say no, put my pants on and leave out there. But because of being an airhead (and the heat of the moment...I didn't think...but that's not an excuse)., I got what I deserved. I demand (and use) condoms every time I had sex before and after that encounter (at least I don't have the guilt of infecting someone else). But bareback two times with the same guy was more than enough to get me on this mess.

I knew better than this, and even with that I got infected. I still miss the proud young man who would tell the world a big F**k out before 2008 (I still remember, the month before the aids symptoms began to manifest I was really close to come out of the frigging closet, but now I don't see the point, I don't know how my family will react knowing that I'm poz AND gay. They know I'm poz, but that's it. And even if I got out, just to be rejected every fu**ing time? no thanks. Being in a minority INSIDE a minority is annoying).

I really don't know how the people manage to answer the awkward question: "How did you get infected?".

For one, tho I wouldn't do it the same way I did it on the occasion I believe I was infected, I can still say that the sex I had on that time was pretty hot and good, and the virus aside, it wasn't anything bad at all...

As others said, a virus is just a virus. The virus doesn't 'think' or prey on 'bad people' like some would like to believe, in a very simplistic way. It's just a virus, it just happens to be there on that time where we (mostly) all didn't play the safe way.

But guilt? And shame? Really? No!

And you might grieve your past if it helps you, but the process of grieving has only been useful once you get off of it. People who grieve the death of someone don't find peace if they can't learn to let it go; the same goes with 'your past'. And no matter what, HIV or not, your past would have fly away anyway.

My mom and sis didn't know about me being gay or poz and I was picturing mass hysteria etc. I never told them. My mom found out by accident. Yea, she was shocked and upset. But after the intial blow, she came around and neither her nor my sister have treated me any differently.

If you are willing to look past the shame and stigma in your mind you will see that most people who care for you don't see you as a virus but for the person you are.

So this means that anyone who acquired it via intravenous drug use, blood tranfusion (hemophilia), rape (providing she/he didn't 'ask for it' by dressing inappropriately, needle stick (healthcare-related) or mother-to-child transmission, can feel good about their relationship to the virus. Is that what you are stating? Getting it via sex is cause for guilt?

Em

If I may refer you back to my note, I make my limitations on particular issue. But I am talking about the general population who have the virus.

In a nut shell ask yourself as to how you get this terrible virus and be REAL and ANSWER for your self. I got mine and the many of friends who lost their life at a very young age due to the fact that they acquired the thing in a very wild sexual intercourse, unprotected sex, with multiple sexual mates, intoxication with alcohol, excessive drags intake the list goes on. Why you did that? I mean, was it the appropriate thing to do that? It is the answer for WHY that makes me ashamed. Being at early age, pursuit of having a baby like someone mentioned above etc. doesnít answer the question. This is not also a self-imposed or perceived internalized stigma, but about knowing the reality and being truthful for oneself.

But you know the good thing here is that you can turn this into positive. Given the advent of new medical science we can now live longer. I somehow try to explained about myself above. Feeling bad about my infection hasnít never been damaging to my mental health. May be except for some missed opportunities in my life, I feel I am living to the fullest of life. Yet I will be living with that f*n shame. Sometimes life also lets you remind of that shameful experience which you can not avoid. Every one of us should admit that we did wrong. If we don't say so that means we are still in the same problems the penalty which would be severely bad (this I donít know) .

So the bottom line here is BE REALISTIC for your self. You may say I never ever think of my infection. I didnít do nothing wrong. But that is not living in the WORLD OF REALITY which is paramount important.

If I may refer you back to my note, I make my limitations on particular issue. But I am talking about the general population who have the virus.

In a nut shell ask yourself as to how you get this terrible virus and be REAL and ANSWER for your self. I got mine and the many of friends who lost their life at a very young age due to the fact that they acquired the thing in a very wild sexual intercourse, unprotected sex, with multiple sexual mates, intoxication with alcohol, excessive drags intake the list goes on. Why you did that? I mean, was it the appropriate thing to do that? It is the answer for WHY that makes me ashamed. Being at early age, pursuit of having a baby like someone mentioned above etc. doesnít answer the question. This is not also a self-imposed or perceived internalized stigma, but about knowing the reality and being truthful for oneself.

But you know the good thing here is that you can turn this into positive. Given the advent of new medical science we can now live longer. I somehow try to explained about myself above. Feeling bad about my infection hasnít never been damaging to my mental health. May be except for some missed opportunities in my life, I feel I am living to the fullest of life. Yet I will be living with that f*n shame. Sometimes life also lets you remind of that shameful experience which you can not avoid. Every one of us should admit that we did wrong. If we don't say so that means we are still in the same problems the penalty which would be severely bad (this I donít know) .

So the bottom line here is BE REALISTIC for your self. You may say I never ever think of my infection. I didnít do nothing wrong. But that is not living in the WORLD OF REALITY which is paramount important.

I daresay that YOUR REALITY and MY REALITY are very different. You see -- I know that I did NOTHING WRONG when I acquired this virus. I did something stupid -- I didn't insist on a condom. If I could go back in time, I'd go back and use a condom everytime (at least, I'd like to think I would, but being a human being -- who knows). I can assure you that I wasn't drunk or high -- I have been sober since 1989. What I did -- I did with a completely clear head.Reread your post -- you really do look at sex in a very negative light -- very judgemental. You must find a way to get past all this or you will be a very unhappy man for the rest of your life. HIV is just a virus -- it doesn't care who your are, who you fuck or anything else about you. It is just a virus -- just like a cold virus, just like a flu virus. You can add any "but" you want -- you still end up with a virus.

With that -- I wish you luck in pulling out of you self-imposed prison of guilt. The choice is yours -- get help and pull out and live in your own hell. I pulled out of mine and enjoy my life much more.

If I may refer you back to my note, I make my limitations on particular issue. But I am talking about the general population who have the virus.

In a nut shell ask yourself as to how you get this terrible virus and be REAL and ANSWER for your self. I got mine and the many of friends who lost their life at a very young age due to the fact that they acquired the thing in a very wild sexual intercourse, unprotected sex, with multiple sexual mates, intoxication with alcohol, excessive drags intake the list goes on. Why you did that? I mean, was it the appropriate thing to do that? It is the answer for WHY that makes me ashamed. Being at early age, pursuit of having a baby like someone mentioned above etc. doesnít answer the question. This is not also a self-imposed or perceived internalized stigma, but about knowing the reality and being truthful for oneself.

Would you still carry the shame if you had done everything above except that the sex was protected every time?

You know metekrop, there is nothing wrong with liking sex. It is perfectly natural, is it not?. There is also nothing wrong in having multiple sex partners. It is the cultural morals/judgment that society puts on these acts that sows the seeds of guilt in people's minds. Is there some rule that all promiscuous people are bad and all the prudes of the world are the harbingers of everything good?- Because if thats the case then I have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary.

I don't see lung cancer patients (due to excessive smoking), heart disease patients (due to bad eating habits) putting themselves through this sort of self-imposed mental anguish. They probably regret smoking so much or eating poorly, as I am sure many poz folk regret not having used a condom. But that is as far as it should go. And one needs to move on from that too, because after all we are human and we all make mistakes.

By your own admission you did something stupid and that is a kind of things I am talking about. You said you didn't use condom. When was the teaching on use of condom start to surface in the world? I hope you start treatment in year 2005. May be you were infected at about the same time when so many people are falling down of this disease partly because they fail to use condom like you.

I got the virus sometime back in 1993 or 1994. That is long time when it is compare with yours. A person like me can say I fail to use condom, that time. But there is no any rational justification for a person like you to say I fail to do sex without condom after ten twelve years. Who gave you that stupidity when so many medias in the world are preaching about the use of condom? Hope you watch TV, listen to radios, read newspaper, go to church, school etc etc. Yea, you can scream loud that this is just like a cold virus. Okay, let it be for you. But the fact of the matter still remains in every body of us who are paying the hard cost of this stupidity. To say HIV is like cold Virus is itself misleading concept to common young adult folks out there which we should be careful.

However, you can say that I need mental health specialist but I can tell you that no one here have a moral background to tell me that I need a mental health specialist where he himself is in a big social and physiological mess.

So the bottom line here is BE REALISTIC for your self. You may say I never ever think of my infection. I didnít do nothing wrong. But that is not living in the WORLD OF REALITY which is paramount important.

How realistic is it to think you are never going to make mistakes? How realistic is it to expect everyone, including yourself, to use a condom correctly every time for the rest of your life? How useful is it to obsess about one thing you did wrong and feeling guilt, one of the most useless of emotions?

I have made lots of mistakes in my life and contracting HIV is probably not the worst. Do I wish I had used a condom that night? Of course. I also wish I had taken gymnastics as a child. I wish I had not returned my military scholarship and dropped out of nuclear engineering. I wish I hadn't wasted 3 years in a relationship that was going nowhere. I wish I had not eaten that large order of McDonald's french fries last night.

How silly would it be for me to perseverate about not using a condom once 18 years ago! It does nothing to help me be productive, successful or happy now. As I said before, you are taking your guilt trip by yourself.

Metekrop you have no right to judge people in this forum much less preach to them . You are engaging in internal stigma as well as external stigma when you attempt to moralize over a virus . Your moral judgements about what is right and wrong are not appreciated .

I don't see lung cancer patients (due to excessive smoking), heart disease patients (due to bad eating habits) putting themselves through this sort of self-imposed mental anguish. They probably regret smoking so much or eating poorly, as I am sure many poz folk regret not having used a condom. But that is as far as it should go. And one needs to move on from that too, because after all we are human and we all make mistakes.

I just wanted to point that this comparison is a bit unfortunate. For the lung cancer patients, or heart attack victims avoiding this require a change of lifestyle, but for getting HIV you don't need to change anything of your lifestyle, just remember the condoms. Only 20 minutes of unprotected sex (even less) is required to get the damn virus, opposed to years of eating poorly or smoking.

How is this dictatorship? Where do you get your definitions? Please let me know so I will avoid using that dictionary.

No one said you couldn't say something or that you had to say something - they merely stated disagreement with what you said and that it wasn't appreciated ---- believe me, if it was dictatorship you would know it.

I might be wrong. But that is what I thought. When my expression of disagreement is taken as judgment in this forum and told bluntly that I have no right to do so, that is in Spanish or something else seem to me dictatorship.

Once again I am not scientist but don't buy the idea which states that HIV is the same as cold virus. Okay

Once again I am not scientist but don't buy the idea which states that HIV is the same as cold virus. Okay

Biologically they're both viruses. They infect and produce copies of themselves and continue their "life" cycle. They are no different in that respect. One your body can clear on its own and the other it cannot.

I have empathy for what you are dealing with and I sincerely hope you are able to deal with your shame and guilt . I have a problem with you trying to make an argument that others should share in your guilt and shame that's all . Its like you are insisting that's these feelings you have are logical and healthy when in fact they are not .

I'm wishing you the best , please look at some of the excellent advice you have been given a second time and see if maybe you should consider seeing things differently .

Biologically they're both viruses. They infect and produce copies of themselves and continue their "life" cycle. They are no different in that respect. One your body can clear on its own and the other it cannot.

Yes, they might be the same from science point of view. I have no knowledge about scinence. And yet why they both are called a virus.

Back in time, during my first diagnosis, I was in the camp of the dinalists. The main proponents of this group was to tell people that HIV is a passenger virus which is not harmful to human beings. Being totally convinced I was a follower of this group up to the day I hospitalized and come back again with CD of less than 50 and VL of more than Half a million. Now again this time what amazes me the fact that I see people who claim that Hiv is just like cold virus and I am not ashamed of by having it. By for now.

If I may refer you back to my note, I make my limitations on particular issue. But I am talking about the general population who have the virus.

In a nut shell ask yourself as to how you get this terrible virus and be REAL and ANSWER for your self. I got mine and the many of friends who lost their life at a very young age due to the fact that they acquired the thing in a very wild sexual intercourse, unprotected sex, with multiple sexual mates, intoxication with alcohol, excessive drags intake the list goes on. Why you did that? I mean, was it the appropriate thing to do that? It is the answer for WHY that makes me ashamed. Being at early age, pursuit of having a baby like someone mentioned above etc. doesnít answer the question. This is not also a self-imposed or perceived internalized stigma, but about knowing the reality and being truthful for oneself.

But you know the good thing here is that you can turn this into positive. Given the advent of new medical science we can now live longer. I somehow try to explained about myself above. Feeling bad about my infection hasnít never been damaging to my mental health. May be except for some missed opportunities in my life, I feel I am living to the fullest of life. Yet I will be living with that f*n shame. Sometimes life also lets you remind of that shameful experience which you can not avoid. Every one of us should admit that we did wrong. If we don't say so that means we are still in the same problems the penalty which would be severely bad (this I donít know) .

So the bottom line here is BE REALISTIC for your self. You may say I never ever think of my infection. I didnít do nothing wrong. But that is not living in the WORLD OF REALITY which is paramount important.

Hi Metekrop

I think you thought you were writing to Ann instead of to me -- the baby reference makes me think that.

I can hardly follow the posts at this point.

All I was trying to illustrate was if acquiring the virus from sex should be guilt-inducing, then using your logic, if you got it any other way then there's no guilt to be had...hurray! Someone gets off in your world view.

Everyone here is trying to say quite simply that a virus that has no bounds of age, gender, education or class, should not be given the power to make its host feel guilty about how it arrived at the life party!!

Guilt1. the fact of having committed a breach of conduct especially violating law and involving a penalty; broadly : guilty conduct 2a : the state of one who has committed an offense especially consciously b : feelings of culpability especially for imagined offenses or from a sense of inadequacy : self-reproach 3: a feeling of culpability for offenses

Shamea : a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety b : the susceptibility to such emotion <have you no shame?> 2: a condition of humiliating disgrace or disrepute : ignominy <the shame of being arrested> 3a : something that brings censure or reproach; also : something to be regretted : pity <it's a shame you can't go> b : a cause of feeling shame

Virus2a : the causative agent of an infectious disease b : any of a large group of submicroscopic infective agents that are regarded either as extremely simple microorganisms or as extremely complex molecules, that typically contain a protein coat surrounding an RNA or DNA core of genetic material but no semipermeable membrane, that are capable of growth and multiplication only in living cells, and that cause various important diseases in humans, lower animals, or plants; also : filterable virus c : a disease or illness caused by a virus 3: something that poisons the mind or soul <the force of this virus of prejudice ó V. S. Waters>

Now, as for me.... I don't feel guilt about having HIV - as I have committed no offense, nor do I choose to feel or feed into a sense of inadequacy. I don't feel shame over my condition - as I don't see the benefit of living in disgrace - although I could see one having shame if they regret having gotten HIV - but hopefully they would get acceptance and not stay in a state of shame.

I definitely see myself as having definition 2a and 2b of virus - but there is no way in hell I am going to feed into having definition 3 - something that poisons the mind or soul - as this wuld be purely based on a subjective moral judgement - having no basis in logic (whether someone is a believer in a higher power or not).

As long as people are "ashamed" to have HIV - there will be shame to have --- rid yourself of shame and you will find that it is a feeling/condition that exists solely based on the weight or perceptions given it by the carrier - no more, no less.