robohobo:tinfoil-hat maggie: robohobo: harleyquinnical: robohobo: To be fair, every tranny thread is the same thread over an over, on both sides. Same as gun threads, gay threads...basically the politics tab.

True. I'm surprised nobody has really been calling for Bailey Jay (or some other trans porn star's) pics...or is that a different thread waiting in the wings?

S/he's a boy with a identity issues. And I've done much worse, whether with males, females or "she-males."

She seems to know perfectly well who she is going into that pagent; it's hardly an issue with identity. You can only say that as an outsider looking in.

From way over here it looks very much like Jordan is a boy who wants to be a girl, or who works very hard to give that impression at least. Or maybe Jordan is really just a girly boy by temperament: that's fine & dandy, especially if s/he doesn't have to try too hard, as natural nellie queens are part of what makes life worth living.

Of course AFAIC if Jordan really believes s/he really is a girl s/he's deluded, and if s/he ever gets those boy bits chopped off s/he's gone way 'round the bend: nothing Jordan does can ever turn Jordan into a real woman really, regardless of what they're selling.

But there's no reason Jordan has to give a shiat about what I think. Which again is fine & dandy: you'd have to be gormless worm to change your whole life because of what some guy on some b-board said about an article about you on some website somewhere. And if there's anything I loathe it's a spineless dizzy drama queen.

So sure, as long as Jordan knows she's really a boy with "Gender Identity Disorder" that's perfectly okay. As far as I'm concerned. For whatever it's worth, which amounts to nothing. See?

Ed Grubermann:The One True TheDavid: I've always said I don't hate "T-words," only that transsexualism is based on a delusion.

Actually, it's not. It's based on the gender of the brain not matching the gender of the body. There's a difference.

Actually, it's not. It's a mental illness based on an incompatibility between one's obvious physical sex and one's felt gender. That's been made into a political/social identity of victimhood and mutilation for pay, instead of forcing Society to admit that its traditional sex/gender roles are bullshiat. If society admitted that you can look like that Duck Dynasty blowhard and be femme as all get-out there would be no need for all this, and then how would those surgeons buy their Jaguars?

Regardless of what gender you think your brain is there's an astronomically high probability that it's going to be the same sex as the rest of you. Anybody who tells you different is trying to sell you something.

The One True TheDavid:FraggleStickCar: Whew, my ignore button is really getting a workout from this thread.

Please please please subscribe ME to your Ignore list????

I never understood the people who use ignore lists. Does it mean they are less tolerant of people's opinions that don't match their own? Does it mean they think themselves smarter and don't want to view the flotsam and jetsam of lesser people? Perhaps because they feel they have no power in their real lives, and use it as either vindication of their own power or revenge for being subjected to 'whatever-it-is-that-makes-them-cranky". I dunno.. If I haven't ignored CameronCrazy in all this time, there's no reason to do it now.

Maybe someone will greenlight an opinion thread that covers this one day. I think it would be fascinating to read the content.

The Envoy:The One True TheDavid: Actually, it's not. It's a mental illness based on an incompatibility between one's obvious physical sex and one's felt gender.

Actually, it is. There is scientific evidence of physical differences in the brains of transsexuals, both male-to-female and female-to-male. Your opinion that it's a delusion is comprehensively shown to be incorrect by this.

We all dwell within our own delusion.The problem arises when one becomes grandiose, and begins imagining that one is in a position to pronounce other people's "delusions" as being especially "delusional".It's a form of authoritarianism, which, in turn, is a form of paranoia.

jso2897:The Envoy: The One True TheDavid: Actually, it's not. It's a mental illness based on an incompatibility between one's obvious physical sex and one's felt gender.

Actually, it is. There is scientific evidence of physical differences in the brains of transsexuals, both male-to-female and female-to-male. Your opinion that it's a delusion is comprehensively shown to be incorrect by this.

We all dwell within our own delusion.The problem arises when one becomes grandiose, and begins imagining that one is in a position to pronounce other people's "delusions" as being especially "delusional".It's a form of authoritarianism, which, in turn, is a form of paranoia.

Very poetic. Citations needed. Counter citations also needed... just to keep it balanced.. and to prove it isn't delusional.

WtF, are you tarded? I'M ALREADY PISSED BUT ... Well this thread icing on the cake.

I am trans and all you haters can sock my c+ck .

don't feel alone... there are a lot of mentally ill people out there

See this is the stupid troll.

tsk tsk.. you're looking for trolls where there are none. Perhaps you are mentally ill after all.

Oh really funny how I had you tagged as troll, LOL.

No, sad really. The statement I made could have been taken either way. It's 'you' that chose to make it all about you, not the actually mentally ill people who have a limited idea of identity. Feel free to rant though.

Although you had already been taged as a troll from other threads.Sure claim innocence now I didn't record the thread # so well You are still a troll.If you are not add something useful to this thread.

Useful tidbit: This is Fark, not a think-tank of the smartest, wisest people. Fark is one-step above Redditt. Consider this as you try to make yourself believe Fark is the place for all intellectual debates. You will be a bigger person for this.

There are some intelligent people here, as their arguments for and against certain subject matter have been tagged by me. I appreciate their critical thinking, straight-to-the-teeth tenacity, and accuracy of information given.

I forgive you for misinterpreting my response. It's not unexpected.

Useful tidbit: this is FARK, get used to being made fun of when you say something stupid.

The fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people who have anatomical delusions such as thinking they're amputees stuck in normal 4 limbed bodies. I'm still waiting to see somebody who thinks they're a three handed person stuck in a body with 2 hands and gets a third hand transplanted somewhere.

WtF, are you tarded? I'M ALREADY PISSED BUT ... Well this thread icing on the cake.

I am trans and all you haters can sock my c+ck .

don't feel alone... there are a lot of mentally ill people out there

See this is the stupid troll.

tsk tsk.. you're looking for trolls where there are none. Perhaps you are mentally ill after all.

Oh really funny how I had you tagged as troll, LOL.

No, sad really. The statement I made could have been taken either way. It's 'you' that chose to make it all about you, not the actually mentally ill people who have a limited idea of identity. Feel free to rant though.

Although you had already been taged as a troll from other threads.Sure claim innocence now I didn't record the thread # so well You are still a troll.If you are not add something useful to this thread.

Useful tidbit: This is Fark, not a think-tank of the smartest, wisest people. Fark is one-step above Redditt. Consider this as you try to make yourself believe Fark is the place for all intellectual debates. You will be a bigger person for this.

There are some intelligent people here, as their arguments for and against certain subject matter have been tagged by me. I appreciate their critical thinking, straight-to-the-teeth tenacity, and accuracy of information given.

I forgive you for misinterpreting my response. It's not unexpected.

Useful tidbit: this is FARK, get used to being made fun of when you say something stupid.

Useful for the majority of Farkers who have tunnel vision. Thank you for your support of my statement.

harleyquinnical:Are we going by science here, or social science? If by science alone, then your wanting to strictly apply the biological definition is all well and good. However, part of a beauty pagent, IIRC, is showing how well one fits the social role. Unless they start judging purely on how they look (e.g. going nude) and produce offspring (f*ck and give birth), it's about filling the social roles and that falls under the social science definition of gender.

Perhaps society would do well to be more like science. Last I heard, chemistry never waged a war on algebra, there were no biology suicide bombers attacking anyone.

The thing about social roles. A lot of the LBGT community recognizes that they're fabricated constructs. Yet, so many buy right into them. Many of them are every bit as bigoted and prejudiced as the more staunchly anti-gay conservatives.

Maybe if we remove a bit of emotion from the picture and stick with science, it will remove some of that irrationality from the picture, remove some bias.

Because, emotion, not only grants you your hurt for whatever class you are, it grants hatred for those that would oppress. Both natural, and entirely unproductive. Them buying into theirs with enjoyment is no worse than you buying into yours.

Rise above it, don't compete with it. Quite often, the only way to win is to not play. Lead by example, by not letting emotion get the better of you. Just by joining in the fray, you stoke the fires. By allowing competition, you let the opposition know they've got a chance at winning. (So you're saying, there's a chance? . jpg)

If we disown the bigots, and interact with them as little as possible, only spread messages of tolerance, etc, all without sinking to their level will we win.

That's why the Westboro Baptist Church maintains only a small population. By and large they're ugly to most people. You'll never eradicate them, but their numbers, while still present, are small, even dwindling as more and more are exposed to alternatives....they come to tolerate, even accept. By participating in all that ugliness, you give your argument the same taint, and given that, people will fall in line with whom they've the most in common, instead of thinking logically about fairness.

Fighting does solve a lot of problems, but some have to be approached with a lot more finesse and abstinence. Let the other side have enough rope to hang themselves. Be distant and unbiased, like (good)science.

diaphoresis:jso2897: The Envoy: The One True TheDavid: Actually, it's not. It's a mental illness based on an incompatibility between one's obvious physical sex and one's felt gender.

Actually, it is. There is scientific evidence of physical differences in the brains of transsexuals, both male-to-female and female-to-male. Your opinion that it's a delusion is comprehensively shown to be incorrect by this.

We all dwell within our own delusion.The problem arises when one becomes grandiose, and begins imagining that one is in a position to pronounce other people's "delusions" as being especially "delusional".It's a form of authoritarianism, which, in turn, is a form of paranoia.

Very poetic. Citations needed. Counter citations also needed... just to keep it balanced.. and to prove it isn't delusional.

"Citation"? To support an opinion?Seriously, son - the middle school "debate" tactics are wasted on me - come back when you're 21.

What a Country : Someone with the money for surgery and hormone treatment can be just as beautiful (if not more so) than millions of young ladies struggling with their own budding attractiveness. Way to go, Dude.

rubi_con_man:What a Country : Someone with the money for surgery and hormone treatment can be just as beautiful (if not more so) than millions of young ladies struggling with their own budding attractiveness. Way to go, Dude.

I certainly hope medical research can come up with a way to fix whatever causes the mismatch between brain and body, but I suppose until this happens, radical surgery and lifelong hormone treatment is the only alternative.

My personal hang-ups aside (if I were mackin' on a chick, I don't think I could overlook discovering unexpected hardware) there should be a special kind of hell for an adult who would threaten or otherwise make life more miserable for people who are already dealing with so much.

Public Savant:It is the same thing - a form of mental issue that is just too PC for some to handle, and others just feel the need to be overly supportive and show everyone else how open minded they are.

These aren't people who suddenly decide they want to live as another gender. They have a brain and a personality that doesn't match their physical attributes. You can't possibly relate to how that would feel, but presume to know the cure: "Get over it".

GoldSpider:These aren't people who suddenly decide they want to live as another gender. They have a brain and a personality that doesn't match their physical attributes. You can't possibly relate to how that would feel, but presume to know the cure: "Get over it".

Embrace it. Hell, celebrate it if you want... but quit attention whoring it.

GoldSpider:I certainly hope medical research can come up with a way to fix whatever causes the mismatch between brain and body, but I suppose until this happens, radical surgery and lifelong hormone treatment is the only alternative.

My personal hang-ups aside (if I were mackin' on a chick, I don't think I could overlook discovering unexpected hardware) there should be a special kind of hell for an adult who would threaten or otherwise make life more miserable for people who are already dealing with so much.

I think the perception used to be much more binary, now treatment as I understand it (I'm cis, so my understanding here is super limited) focuses on what works best for each person. There are plenty of trans women who chose to keep their genitals as they are (they still have a penis) and go with hormone therapies. Whatever makes people comfy in their own skin and makes their lives more fulfilled, awesome. But I agree, I hope there are better options in the future. The current options seem crappy, as well as the strong societal push to conform to gender norms and concepts of beauty.

I can't relate to this really at all as I'm cis and I don't have this dysmorphia problem. That I don't have a real frame of reference for it doesn't mean I can't be empathetic and compassionate. But that I don't have that frame of reference means I stick my foot in my mouth pretty often. When that happens sometimes people can get snappy, and it can make people trying to be allies fall back on being defensive and derailing it into about them. And that's just stupid. Just be a decent farking human being, and try to listen. I don't get tons of shiat for sticking my foot in my mouth because my heart/intentions are in the right place, I'm willing to listen, learn and empathize.

Life is hard enough. Of course, some people just get off on the misery of others and then all you can do is identify & recognize those people to minimize their impact while profusely sweat while getting their cheap jollies.

They're nice to look at and etc. at that age but the ditziness of youth gets annoying after a while. If you brought me a clone of me at 17 I'd fark me hard but I'd want to duct-tape Teen Davy's mouth shut first. That must be the best part about Real Dolls: they're silent.

Yea and they're are the reason I felt safe to come out but you have to understand I've been reading Fark trans threads since '03 '04 I,'ve had people threaten me with bodily harm here sure thy got disapeareared but....

She's cute. Almost got a kinda Uma Thurman thing going on.

Fwiw, you're cute too.

Dont really understand why people get so bent out of shape about other peoples genitals and sexual proclivities.

diaphoresis:I never understood the people who use ignore lists. Does it mean they are less tolerant of people's opinions that don't match their own?

I use it for people who post large quantities of unrelated pictures in a thread, or people who are more than just minor trolls. That said, if I or anyone else wanted to filter more liberally - what do you care? Why is anyone here obligated to read what everyone says? If put on an ignore list, typically you'll not even know. You won't be harmed in any way. You're still free to feel as though you got the attention of the same number of people, that they all felt you were a special snowflake with unique and beautiful ideas. You can feel that independent of how much of said writing of yours, that others may actually be reading.

I dunno if you know this, but some people's opinion is that they should just shiat on people. They'll say one thing until it isn't the outside thing, then they'll say a different thing. They just want to be obnoxious. They're not adding to the conversation - they're derailing it. That's what for which the ignore button is typically solving.

As long as we don't have to look at their junk unless we want to? Sure, but that tends to be true for just about anyone.

My wife and I had two transexuals in our wedding party and were married by a third. For some of us it's like someone announcing "I'm left handed" and expecting some sort of response other than "that's nice". When someone announces that they're transitioning as some sort of challenge I tend to get a little annoyed. It's basically:

"I'm transgender, what do you thing about that?""Well, since we're in a Starbucks, I think I'd like a house coffee with no room for cream."

I met a kid at a local anime convention who pretty much did just that. I guess he figured he'd shock the middle aged white guy and didn't expect a critique of his overuse of foundation. Less is more, kids.

hardinparamedic:Flying Lasagna Monster: A teenage girl who lived as a boy until a year ago has reached the final of the Miss Coventry beauty queen competition.Brave Jordan Davis says she's determined to

We get it, you're a pretentious tool. But at least Facebook is now more accommodating to your form of body dysmorphic disorder.

Ah! A graduate of the esteemed Bob Jones mail order psychology and hot pretzel stand program!

Hey, don't be hating on the pretzel stand program- that's gotten a lot of vendors their start in the food service world.

"I may not have been born a girl, but I am no less female than the rest of the girls."

It's not clear to me from TFA whether he/she is pre-op or post-op. If she's post-op, then she's a chick, so get over it and fark off haters.

(Yes, there's the chromosone thing, but there's such a thing as naturally XX males. Technically, I guess you could say that an XY is "less" female than an XX, but that's quibbling.)

Having said that, if he's pre-op, he's still a he! Being in drag, "living as," or "identifying as" don't change physical reality! You can think you're a can of Cheez Whiz and dress in a Cheez Whiz can costume, but you still aren't freakin' Cheez Whiz!!