Poof, drugs are legalized. Now what’s the war with the cartels going to be called?

The criminality of drugs isn’t what grew the cartels or armed them, or made them into the horrid problem that Mexico has today. It has everything to do with the culture of Mexico which encouraged corruption in every level of government, from bribes to street officers to outright buying of army officers to steal weapons from the military.

Make it legal to have massive coca fields near the border, and those fields will be under the armed control of the cartels, and nothing will have changed. Make it legal for huge marijuana plantations, and again, they’ll simply be armed cartel camps.

It all comes down to a question of will. Does Mexico have the will to retain their country? I don’t think so. Too much time is spent blaming outside factors - it’s the drugs, it’s the guns, it’s...all the fault of Mexicans for permitting armed groups to take control of their country. Stop blaming others, and either take it back, or cede such territory to the cartels and move on.

4
posted on 10/22/2011 1:52:27 PM PDT
by kingu
(Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)

Georgie Soros is sure busy! This is one of his pet causes. He funds a huge pro-drug legalization group that has a very deceptive name that makes it sound as if it is opposed to drugs, but it is actually a huge and well-funded pro-drug organization. They get pro-drug articles into the mainstream press and into things like National Geographic and I guess they must have slipped Fox a few bucks to come out with this. (He’s a flake anyway.)

But maybe Soros’ theory is that it’s easier to control the peasants if they stay stoned. Or maybe he’s invested in a lot of Bolivian coca plantations or perhaps in the coca-growers union?

NO! NO! NO!!!! DAMNIT!! The problem is not the price, or the money flow. Its not Mexico, its not the cartels is the use of the sh!t in the first place. Even if they made the damn stuff free, our drug problem would only increase. Anybody who's for leagalization has their head completely up their butt.

Legalize drugs, and the Mexican cartels will get out of the business, to be replaced by peaceful hippies growing their own. And the lion will lie down with the lamb, and it will be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius.

The trafficking in drugs goes hand in hand with the trafficking of weapons.

The trafficking in Mexico has nothing to do with drugs or smuggling of people or running porn rings or cockfighting rings and everything to do with reaping what was sewn from decades of gross corruption in all levels of government. Once your police force can be purchased, it will be.

Let's say tomorrow, Mexico steps forward and says 'drugs are now legal, plant whatever you want, sell it wherever you want, we're not even going to tax it.' What will happen? The cartels will continue maintaining plantations and they will firebomb anyone else who attempts to get into the business. They'll continue with human smuggling, with child prostitution, with gun running, and confiscate even larger portions of Mexico to hold their plantations on.

The people of Mexico have to say 'no mas', and eject these cartels. If that means convoys in to evacuate non-combatants and then carpet bombing whatever is left, that is what they need to do. They have no will to do this, it is someone else's problem - the American drug problem, the American gun problem..

No, it is a Mexican corruption problem, and it's time they stop blaming others and clean up their own mess.

12
posted on 10/22/2011 2:11:45 PM PDT
by kingu
(Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)

And you have thousands of people who are spending the rest of their lives in prison, being violently abused, and becoming violent themselves, because they were caught with an ounce of marijuana in their pocket.

I can agree to that. Legalizing would take the vast amounts of money out of drugs. Having said that, it won’t make bad people good, but it would make it much harder for them to be wealthy. To the poster who said that the farms would be under armed cartel guard,I don’t think so. There wouldn’t be enough money in it to pay them. You don’t see armed guards at potato farms or chicken houses. Yet.(With the direction our economy has taken, you may see that here.)

Yeah. Let's legalize drugs. "Crocodile" (desomorphine), the new, "designer" Russian street drug is on its way to America. After a few years, we'll have a lot fewer druggies in this country to worry about.

(Warning: This is all you need to know about desomorphine if you have a weak stomach.)

Make alcohol legal, the cartels will set up armed distilleries. Legalize tobacco... Oh wait, you say they don't make money from alcohol or tobacco? Now I wonder why that is.

I take it you've never been in cartel controlled areas of Mexico. Indeed, the cartels are in the alcohol and tobacco distribution business - two of the largest confiscation of untaxed tobacco products occurred along the Mexican border as entire containerloads of counterfeit cigarettes bearing fake tobacco tax stamps were intercepted, bound for the highest taxed areas of the United States.

And I honestly wouldn't trust any popular hard liquor in cartel areas unless it was a rather unusual brand/flavor. In some parts of Laredo, it is shocking that the cartel moonshine hasn't killed anyone.

The problem isn't what is and what isn't legal, it is the corruption that gave birth to the cartels. And they will constantly expand their influence and hold over cartel controlled territories until they are exterminated.

23
posted on 10/22/2011 2:29:34 PM PDT
by kingu
(Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)

“Make it legal to have massive coca fields near the border, and those fields will be under the armed control of the cartels, and nothing will have changed. Make it legal for huge marijuana plantations, and again, theyll simply be armed cartel camps.”

Couple of minor points: Hate to invest in “massive coca fields” in northern Mexico, it won’t grow there; my drug lord would probably torture me thouroughly before killing me for suggesting such a waste of money.

Unlike oil, with legal status, America could become self-sufficient in pot or opium poppies almost overnight! No more dinero to cartels, terrorists or anyone abroad. I am reliably told that the finest quality pot in the world is grown here in the USA, some indoors, some in National Forests, never underestimate the ingenuity of the American entrepanuer!

More serious note: Elliot Ness did not end the alcohol-related violence and corruption spawned by Prohibition: the end of Prohibition did. Yeah, Ness took down Capone (on tax charges, not rum-running) after a two year effort and three more as bad or worse immediately jumped in. The ultimate speak-easy consumer probably never noticed the difference.

The criminality of drugs is EXACTLY what grew the cartels, and without that flow of illegal money they will wither away or shift to other businesses, possibly less lethal ones, as did American gangsters.

I want a shred of evidence the “War on Drugs” does anything save fatten the wrong pockets. Cocaine and heroin are cheaper, purer, and more available today than in 1980. Meth-heads can get their stuff more easily than I can get psuedophedrin in allergy season. Legalization will not result in any significant increase in use: ANYONE who wants ANYTHING can get it now.

My point is valid. Black markets simply can't compete with well-regulated legal markets. Why is that simple truth so hard for people to admit?

So how much tax will there be on the virginity of a nine year old girl? What regulations do you propose for cockfighting? Human slavery? Let me guess, all that magically goes away when drugs are made legal and well regulated?

I'll have to remember that if I happen to walk into one of the anti-personnel mines found in the Angeles forest less than five miles from my home in California, which for all intents and purposes has legalized marijuana cultivation.

28
posted on 10/22/2011 2:53:26 PM PDT
by kingu
(Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)

Unlike oil, with legal status, America could become self-sufficient in pot or opium poppies almost overnight! No more dinero to cartels, terrorists or anyone abroad. I am reliably told that the finest quality pot in the world is grown here in the USA, some indoors, some in National Forests, never underestimate the ingenuity of the American entrepanuer!

Don't you mean the Mexican drug cartels who have grow sites in the Angeles forest near Los Angeles, the hills above San Mateo, the tribal lands near Seattle....

29
posted on 10/22/2011 2:55:36 PM PDT
by kingu
(Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)

You should look to history for your answers, rather than spouting warmed over drug war crap. When alcohol was relegalized, how much was the tax on the virginity of a nine year old girl? How long was it before human slavery made a comeback?

And here's one for you... When we lift the regulations on fat in our foods and smoking in private establishments, how long before laws against child prostitution are lifted?

kingu: I'll have to remember that if I happen to walk into one of the anti-personnel mines found in the Angeles forest less than five miles from my home in California, which for all intents and purposes has legalized marijuana cultivation.

I've never heard of such a thing around distilleries or tobacco fields. Now I wonder why that is?

31
posted on 10/22/2011 3:15:19 PM PDT
by Ken H
(They are running out of other people's money.
)

Hot flash, Sparky! Read all about the 18th amendment! The same idiots that rammed thru the 18th were that ones who used that momentum to establish the whole WoD.

Al Capone would've been a small time Brooklyn hood, BUT, thanks to "I know what's best for you..." DEMOCRATS, he bought and ran Chicago, because of the Federal price supports that Prohibition provided.

It's a sad fact of life, that some people are gonna get stoned. Can't stop it, can't control it, can't convince 'em otherwise.

Prohibition has always been the Great Societal Cureall. If we just get rid of booze, guns, drugs, DDT, Alare, Carbon Dioxide, corporations, private income, then the whole world will be rainbows and unicorns with piles of Skittles every 20 feet...

The War on Drugs has trashed the Constitution, with the WoD being used to justify 90% of the legal violations. Search and seizure, RICO laws, confiscation of property, limits on how much cash you can possess, SWAT teams, thousands slaughtered by an out of control policing system. AND, we are LOSING!

Can you honestly justify ANY of this?

33
posted on 10/22/2011 3:16:57 PM PDT
by jonascord
(Politicians should be pelted with human manure, weekly, to remind them of their worth to society.)

The libs want to cut the Medicare budget and institute death panels. So, despite the fact that Grandma paid into Medicare her entire life, the government says that fighting to save her from cancer costs toooo much. So they want to put her in hospice and pump morphine into her until she croaks.

My creative idea:

Instead of putting Grandma into a hospice, put drug addicts into a hospice. When somebody gets busted for possession of heroin, cocaine, meth, etc., the Judge gives them a choice. They can go to jail, they can sign up for rehab, or they can go to an Addict Hospice. At the Addict Hospice they will be provided with hot meals, a bunk, and ALL OF THE DRUGS THEY WANT...FOR FREE. If the addict gets sober enough, we let them out to work at jobs. However, they dont have to work. The addicts can just do drugs until they croak. Vasectomies/tubal ligations are mandatory so we dont end up with a bunch of crack babies in the foster system.

Oh, gee. More stoners and losers are gonna die! Weeping and wailing in 10,000 homes, and another bunch of future Democrats bites the Big One. Russian mobsters are going to get rich because they know the silly, stupid American government is going to add this to their list of banned chemicals.

Stupid is Forever...

37
posted on 10/22/2011 3:29:57 PM PDT
by jonascord
(Politicians should be pelted with human manure, weekly, to remind them of their worth to society.)

We have been chasing smoke for 90 years. How close are we to winning the war? We kill one, twenty pop up to take his place. This isn't a war.

The Chinese tried to control opium use. They killed everyone they caught with opium. Is that what you have in mind? Did it stop the Opium trade? No.

If it makes you feel any better, I understand WHY some people don't want it to end. Too many people, government agencies, local police departments, social workers, NEED to keep drugs illegal, because otherwise they'd be out of a job. The "IT's For The Children!!!" is pure COW droppings. It's so all these "warriors," who KNOW they are wasting their time, don't have to go out and have to learn how to do a real job.

39
posted on 10/22/2011 3:47:52 PM PDT
by jonascord
(Politicians should be pelted with human manure, weekly, to remind them of their worth to society.)

I’ve done a lot of thinking on this legalization issue. First let me say that I don’t abuse drugs now and wouldn’t if they were legalized. I also don’t refrain from using drugs because they’re illegal.

As to legalization, I can see how it would be easy to legalize marijuana, but what about prescription drugs like oxycontin? That would kind of negate the logic behind the whole prescription requirements. Or meth, which is usually a toxic witches brew. I doubt the FDA would approve it.

Since MJ is a weed, it is as easy to grow as a tomato. So, domestic production would cripple foreign SMUGGLERS & the price of MJ would drop like a rock.

Current prices for MJ range from $300-$800 per ounce, or more. Dealing can be very lucrative. But, If someone can grow a pound or 2 (16-32 ounces) on their terrace in pots with a dollar packet of seeds & some MiracleGro, then pot becomes essentially free, putting the pot DEALERS & GROWERS out of business.

That is 3 major US criminal enterprises completely out of business. Permanently & almost immediately. Thousands of big & small dealers, growers, & smugglers gone because their customers can get it for free.

If something is free, it has no commercial value, & little human appeal.

Two responses I always get when I address this:

1. The entire country will become pot heads

2. It will destroy the children

My answers:

1. Those people who prefer to smoke pot probably already are. Also, ask your friends & relatives if they would smoke pot if it were legal. Likely, if they don’t smoke it now, they wont when legal.

2. Children should not use ANY drugs w/o a doctor’s supervision. Parents must hold & take complete responsibility, with schools providing a supporting/monitoring role. Subjecting your child to the criminal justice system will NOT solve the problems that led to drug use - it will multiply them. Criminalization doesn’t work with adults either, as our bulging jails & nearly 100 year War on Drugs attest to.

41
posted on 10/22/2011 4:27:27 PM PDT
by Mister Da
(The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)

“This war on burglary has taken too long, cost too many freedoms, and stopped nothing.
Legalize theft today.

/sarc”.

Unfortuate for your position, the “war” on property, personal crimes has been quite succesful. As more recidivists are kept “in” for longer terms, the streets become demonstrably safer. A lot needs to be done in gangbanger turf, BUT if the complainant can be made to feel safe from retaliation, we get more co-operation from residents and personal/property crime rates have declined significantly over ten years.

Herein lies the problem with drug laws. If I knock you upside the head and steal your Rolex and cash, you will fully cooperate with the cops trying to catch me.

Otra vez, I pay you cash to obtain X amount of an illegal substance, neither of us has any reason to cooperate with the WOD police, neither party feeling taken advantage of (well, unless I just bought $20 worth of oregano or baby laxative, but I ain’t likely to take that to civil court), neither side is inclined to uphold the law.

kingu said: "I'll have to remember that if I happen to walk into one of the anti-personnel mines found in the Angeles forest less than five miles from my home in California, which for all intents and purposes has legalized marijuana cultivation."

As another poster has pointed out, nobody puts armed guards around potato farms. Who is going to spend money to protect a crop that will be less valuable than potatoes?

Have you ever asked yourself why our Founders didn't address the legality or illegality of "recreational" drugs? Why do you think it is a priority today when it wasn't two hundred years ago?

Legalization would dramatically reduce the price of street drugs. The junkie who needs to steal $500 a day to maintain his habit may only need to steal $50 a day, or nothing if given the obvious medical attention he really needs. Marijuana can be grown in a pot in Manhattan, so forget plantations in Mexico. Coca & opium have climate/soil requirements. “Kitchen-cooked” drugs can be made anywhere.

All-in-all, the cartels would be OUT of the drug business shortly after US legalization.

I do NOT favor the complete legalization of all drugs, especially “kitchen-cooked” drugs, though I do favor the decriminalization of marijuana. From youthful experience, I know it to be relatively harmless, & certainly less dangerous than alcohol or jail.

45
posted on 10/22/2011 5:13:44 PM PDT
by Mister Da
(The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)

HOT FLASH! SOMEONE IS WORRIED ABOUT HIS FEDERAL SINECURE! SPARE ME THE "YOU CAN'T KNOW UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN THERE!" BULLSH!T. If that's your problem, go to the VA and tell them "PTSD!" They'll know what to do.

That whole post has "poor little piggy me, you civilians can't understand..." all over it.

The Sheriff on Nottingham's goons didn't want the laws against poaching the King's deer repealed, either. Notice how they didn't dare take off there armor? We've got "drug warriors" who need these drug prohibitions so they can keep thousands of jails running, hundreds of thousands of 'roided, badge heavy thugs occupied, lawyers/state senators passing more and more blatantly unconstitutional laws that gut our entire American form of government, billions of dollars pissed away on rambo toys that your kind can torture and kill us civilians with, hundreds of thousands of lives ruined.

No sale. A republican form of government REQUIRES personal responsibility. Drug laws, and the horror show your thinking has created in their defense has come edgingly close to destroying our civilization. And YOU think it's mandatory, "if it saves ONE life..." This is the wrong place, the wrong time, the wrong conditions. There are 330 million people in this country. I'm willing to expend a few hundred thousand weak willed drugged Democrats every year to save the rest of our freedoms.

If Dear Leader's puppet masters had a brain in their heads, they would start a "legalize pot" campaign to distract us while he finishes raping the country. And you would have to start worrying about your job.

47
posted on 10/22/2011 6:50:14 PM PDT
by jonascord
(Politicians should be pelted with human manure, weekly, to remind them of their worth to society.)

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