The only way I can see your server in the browser is if I enter the IP as a "Favorite."

The ping isn't great, but there are a lot of others listed with much higher pings.

But the same is for OC-3 server... However, I get an inordinately low ping (under 50 sometimes). If I don't enter it in the "favs," I don't see it.

I'm convinced that there is a flaw in whatever protocol is allowing servers to be listed in the browser. After doing a list and then opening the console, there is a prompt that says something about X# of servers not listed because of packet drops or something or other... I'll have to pay closer attention next time.

Hey Kurgan... decided to move this discussion from the "Open Letter to Raven/LucasArts" thread over here regarding bots on your server...

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Why would you rather sit in spectator mode or run around in an empty level than play with a few bots?

I don't mind warming up with a bot while I'm waiting for someone to join, but the last thing I want to do when going online is to join a server with a 100+ ping and play against three other master class bots with no ping. And when another player joins it's a total drag having two other bots to deal with.

To me, going online is about interacting with other people. I'd be completely fine simply practicing moves by myself until someone shows up if it's a server where I want to play, because I know someone will show up eventually and that I'll likely have a really great time while I'm there.

I've joined your server once, Kurgan... it was the only time I checked it when there was only people playing. I have it in my favorites folder and always check the player list when firing up QT or ASE to see if anybody's there (especially you). Several times I've seen one person with three other bots on there, and I've almost talked myself into joining but didn't. Now if when I did join the other two bots disappeared as well, then I would definitely stop in and challenge that person until someone else showed up.

I don't need there to be 6+ people... I've had awesome experiences with only one or two others. It's just that at any given time there are 50+ other servers with one or two people and no bots that I can join - so why would I want to play bots? It's not fun.

Your server is pretty well known around here... I'd have to suggest that one of the reasons you don't see more traffic is because half of the slots are taken up by bots. Just my personal feeling though. Drop it to two and see what happens.

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btw... do you use other names when you play? I look for you everytime I fire up QT or ASE, but maybe we're just on different time schedules.

I don't mind warming up with a bot while I'm waiting for someone to join, but the last thing I want to do when going online is to join a server with a 100+ ping and play against three other master class bots with no ping. And when another player joins it's a total drag having two other bots to deal with.

So does this mean you don't want to play bots because you're afraid of losing?

Bots will always have zero ping and you know what? Playing an admin is "just as unfair" because we'll always have pings way lower than people joining (not zero, but say 5 is not unusual).

And again, having no bots just means that the one person
who joins to wait for others is just going to get bored that
much faster and leave.

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To me, going online is about interacting with other people.

Of course, multiplayer is about fragging other characters controled by humans. But why did they put bots into the MP game?

Simple, because not every game is going to be full all the time.

If you just want to practice, Solo Game is there for you.

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I'd be completely fine simply practicing moves by myself until someone shows up if it's a server where I want to play, because I know someone will show up eventually and that I'll likely have a really great time while I'm there.

Which is exactly why I have them. Practicing moves on walls or health pacs isn't very useful. Rather practicing on moving targets that are trying to kill you is very useful. ; )

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I've joined your server once, Kurgan... it was the only time I checked it when there was only people playing. I have it in my favorites folder and always check the player list when firing up QT or ASE to see if anybody's there (especially you). Several times I've seen one person with three other bots on there, and I've almost talked myself into joining but didn't. Now if when I did join the other two bots disappeared as well, then I would definitely stop in and challenge that person until someone else showed up.

Glad to hear it, but you didn't catch me at a good time. Usually I have 0-2 players in there, but other times I've had 4-6. On "good days" (days when the in-game browser is actually displaying my game) I get a steady stream of players all day long.

And I always have bots, so those people are able to join, play and have fun fine, even if I'm not there.

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I don't need there to be 6+ people... I've had awesome experiences with only one or two others. It's just that at any given time there are 50+ other servers with one or two people and no bots that I can join - so why would I want to play bots? It's not fun.

Your time, your choice, I'm just pointing out why avoiding servers that have bots is not as productive as you say.

I said it before, I'll say it again, SOMEBODY has to join a server to start the "waiting game." Otherwise every server will always be empty, forever. Is the admin of the server just supposed to sit there and wait in an empty game for people to join?

People are just too impatient. If a game lags for a fifth of a second they scream "lag!" if they lose one point they yell "lame!" if anything isn't perfectly how they want it they leave. If you're running a mod they don't want to download they'll disconnect. If a player is beating them they'll callvote/kick. ; p

That's their choice but it just gets annoying when you're putting up a server for others to use. So I'm happy for the feedback, I just think I have a right to respond here as well.

9 times out of 10 the admin is not there, because it's a dedicated server. The point is to run it with all the resources so that others can use the game. That's why they put in automated stuff like map cycles and voting. It's because the admin is not expected to sit there and wait for people and beg them to join.

I'm not a doctor of JA who is "on call" 24/7, though I do make an effort to join my own game if I happen to see somebody in there or at least say "hi" so they know I'm around. Just the friendly thing to do. But other times even when I'm watching the console I have better things to do, and sometimes I'll load up JA but by the time I get there they'll have left already.

Besides, there are times even when bots can't help you, in Siege for example. But let's say FFA... bots provide a way to keep people occupied while they wait. You don't have to participate, but if no one does, no one plays, the entire system falls apart.

And I don't know about you, but if I'm going to play bots, I'll take on a group of them, not just one (since you can't really private duel bots) in a FFA. So who would want to go one on one with a bot in FFA? Due to the sheer size of most of the maps you'll just be playing hide 'n' seek with him anyway.

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Your server is pretty well known around here... I'd have to suggest that one of the reasons you don't see more traffic is because half of the slots are taken up by bots. Just my personal feeling though. Drop it to two and see what happens.

No, I think the primary reason is that my game isn't displayed most of the time (others have this problem).

I get plenty of players on the days that it gets posted, bots or no bots, and nobody ever complains about bots except on the forums (3 people so far).

Also, if you join up, I'm using improved bots and bot routes (the latter thanks to Amidala) so you'll be getting more than you bargained for anyway, and unless you have the same tweaks I do, it'll be a new experience for you, guarenteed.

See Skinwalker's rave reviews above. ; )

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btw... do you use other names when you play? I look for you everytime I fire up QT or ASE, but maybe we're just on different time schedules.

Once or twice, but 99.99% of the time I go simply as "Kurgan."

If you don't see me, chances are you're on a different time table than me and you're simply missing all the action (no offense).

whOa... down boy. Now don't go getting the wrong idea. I got nothing against you or your server, and was simply sharing an alternate point of view - you did ask why I prefer not to connect to a server with bots...

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So does this mean you don't want to play bots because you're afraid of losing?

I'm not afraid of losing... I actually do it quite a bit. I consider losing as a healthy way of improving. One of the reasons we see so much spamming of katas and "red stance only" single saberists is because people are afraid to lose. If there were more people willing to lose, we'd see a lot more interesting and varied matches.

A bot doesn't make mistakes, and takes away some of the thrill and challenge. No spontaneity, and no accidents. I think SkinWalker was trying to say that as well, wasn't he?

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Playing an admin is "just as unfair" because we'll always have pings way lower than people joining

Hmmm... that's the third time now you've read something into my post that I didn't say... "you assume too much."

"All is fair in love and war," and this game elicits both from me. Rarely if ever do I feel that anything that happens online is unfair. I'm also not someone who needs a full house to have a good time, nor am I someone who joins a server and then immediately leaves. Very often I'll join either an empty server or one with a single person and try to start something. And I'm well aware of the admin advantage... won't save you though.

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If you just want to practice, Solo Game is there for you.

Creating a local server with different game styles using lots of practice bots is how I prepare for going online. I did that nonstop for an entire week practicing with your information from Strategic Academy before logging a single hour online - which I greatly appreciated by the way. So when I finally do go online, I want to interact with people and have a real competitive match to tryout my skills. Bots aren't susceptible to taunts, accidents, mistakes, or emotions - which leads to an unrealistic playing experience.

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Practicing moves on walls or health pacs isn't very useful.

One can't work on repetition of keystrokes and timing technique with a bot constantly attacking you. Ragnos is a great solo map because the center fire cauldron makes a good point of reference for practicing spins. What would be really great is to have a training map that has dummies and objects in different locations to practice stirke coordination and combo stringing. Several maps offer jumping platforms, but none have immobile targets to practice aiming.

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If you're running a mod they don't want to download they'll disconnect.

I disconnect because the mod is going to take 59 minutes to auto download, when I could go get it from pcgamemods in about 50 seconds and come right back. I really don't understand why auto download has to take so long... I'm on a 1Mbps broadband connection and it takes like an hour or more to auto download a 4Mb saber hilt mod on most servers. I can only imagine what it must be like for 56k or cable broadband users.

But in the case of your server, I've downloaded all of the mods you listed here ahead of time so I'd be prepared when I joined. I've been looking forward to challenging you online because I know it will be fun... but I always wait for other people to show first because I don't want to waste my time for thirty minutes playing bots when I could be playing with others somewhere else.

But next time I see a person on there with a bunch of bots, I'll go ahead and join and see what it's like ok? And if you happen to jump on too, well all the better big boy.

Update (January 19th): Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day!
Sadly, my server has gone down due to hardware problems and is undergoing repairs, until then the server will remain down. Hopefully I'll be able to bring it back soon. Sorry for the delays.
; p

Update (1/24/04): I had to send the computer to another repair place and they say it will be done sometime in early February (chances of it being finished sooner are slim). The upside of this is that the server will have doubled processing speed when it comes back (2 ghz, I know I'm behind the times, but ever little bit helps!).