Vetinari: I have noted before that you have a definite anti-authoritarian streak, Commander.
Vimes: Sir?
Vetinari: You seem to have retained this even though you are Authority.
Vimes: Sir?
Vetinari: That's practically Zen.

Someone else here can give more details if they want, since I've been missing for a year (kinda have to get caught up on that, after I finish another big priority project I left hanging ), but EE is still on the table.

"God not only plays dice, he throws them in the corner where you can't see them."
-- Stephen William Hawking (b. 1942) --

Yes. We are currently going through the Avlis code to determine what we need to add to adapt our code to NWN EE. The next step will be to write all of the functionality that will allow our existing code to work with NWN EE. So, it is ongoing, but is a non-trivial process.

This, I think, is going to be the most difficult. If Avlis converts to EE it will effectively cut the rest of the CoPaP worlds off from Avlis since the other worlds don't have the staff sizes to handle converting their content/code,as well as the EE and non-EE versions don't work together. It would take them years to 'catch up' to Avlis, IMO, which given this is nearly a 2 decade old game would basically render them left unconverted and dying a quicker death than they already are.

Last edited by terror2001 on Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Main challenge is making the extensions work and play nice with EE. Code and content that isn't reliant on NWNX should work fine.

The other thing is the NWNX made for EE isn't our NWNX. Arelith basically built up a whole new iteration of their own that last I checked in a dialog between one of their guys and Themicles lacked certain functionality that CoPaP needs to adapt to EE. That talk was about a year ago. No idea how their NWNX has progressed since then.

Sinfar I think was particularly resistant on a player base split and did up some Frankenstein solution that hacks it so both old and EE players can both play on the same server. Not sure how well that works out in practice but that would be an extremely last resort move to make if Beamdog hasn't locked out being able to do that.

Vetinari: I have noted before that you have a definite anti-authoritarian streak, Commander.
Vimes: Sir?
Vetinari: You seem to have retained this even though you are Authority.
Vimes: Sir?
Vetinari: That's practically Zen.

I think Sinfar had a workable alternative, but they seem to have ditched it now (I assume because Beamdog have hard-coded in blocks). It makes sense I guess, there are a lot of new features already and some great graphical overhauls. It would take a lot of additional dev time to make it work/be ignored for older client versions. It's a shame, but I think Copap may have missed the player boost boat on this one now.

It's a shame, but I think Copap may have missed the player boost boat on this one now.

First, Hi Merago!

Second, I am not sure this is true. I spent the last two or so months looking for a good roleplay server to play with EE. I gave up and just play Avlis again. So maybe not a huge boost but some would definitely find us.

I think Sinfar had a workable alternative, but they seem to have ditched it now (I assume because Beamdog have hard-coded in blocks). It makes sense I guess, there are a lot of new features already and some great graphical overhauls. It would take a lot of additional dev time to make it work/be ignored for older client versions. It's a shame, but I think Copap may have missed the player boost boat on this one now.

Is a new server, running NWN:EE an option? For me, personally - I don't want to invest in a game that isn't supported anymore in modern OSes. NWN:EE is. I'm having great fun in some of the new PWs, but I'll be honest, I'd drop them all in a second for Avlis. I invested over a decade of my life in Avlis, and I'd be willing to help out however I can in an NWN:EE platform. To my mind, I don't see why there can't be an NWN Avlis PW and an NWN:EE Avlis PW. It was attempted for NWN2 after all - it's maybe an opportunity to pick a new country, or resurrect Kurathene and upgrade just that mod, stripping out the conflicting scripts?

It's a shame, but I think Copap may have missed the player boost boat on this one now.

First, Hi Merago!

Second, I am not sure this is true. I spent the last two or so months looking for a good roleplay server to play with EE. I gave up and just play Avlis again. So maybe not a huge boost but some would definitely find us.

Hey Katroine! Long time. Hope you're keeping well?
I stand by my comments though- I suspect there are a lot of people out there that bought NWN EE and discovered they couldn't play on their old haunts anymore - I'm one of them. I jumped at NWN EE because it supported new OSes and new tech and promised an overhaul of both engine and graphics - it also tantalised (in my head to be fair, not via Beamdog marketing) a potential player number boost. It seemed a no brainer. I didn't do my homework though and didn't realise that a lot of the old scripts were going to be a problem (and be, essentially, ignored by Beamdog). So, while I'm enjoying what I'm doing in NWN:EE PWs. I still miss my home. But it's not just a case of buying Diamond Edition and logging back in - the servers are going to be just as quiet as when I left. The potential player number boost was an added attraction, and, much as they're not "home", I'm still being afforded the opportunity of logging in to other worlds at any time and knowing there are people to RP with.

This EE project has been slow going due to a shortage of coders who are able to work on it. I don't think Avlis moving to EE will be terribly difficult, just some work to get done. Each of our modules(servers) use the same set of scripts and NWNX plugins, so we will make the necessary changes to the scripts and then move all Avlis modules to NWN:EE in one go. NWN:EE has some additional patches beyond 1.69, so it will take some testing to remove any code we have in place to work around old bugs and fix up code to deal with any new functionality.

I know people have asked about CoPaP, portals to other worlds, and whether we will run NWN1 along side NWNEE servers, but those are discussions to have once we get EE figured out. But know that we are in communication with other CoPaP worlds about their EE efforts (they are understaffed on coders as well).

Regarding the question of moving NWN1 PCs over to NWNEE or starting with new PCs in the NWNEE servers. NWNEE supports a one-way migration of PCs from NWN1 -> NWNEE, so we will evaluate that option. We will make a decision on this once we get EE figured out and decide whether to run both NWN1 and NWNEE servers or just NWNEE servers.

So, how to we get this EE work done?

The first step relates to NWNX/NWNXEE

There are a couple of NWNX modules that we use in NWN1 that do not exist for NWNXEE, so we either need to create wrappers for them, replace them with some alternative NWNXEE module, or alter our design/implementation to remove the requirement for those modules. Yes, it is possible to write our own NWNXEE modules, but I'm pretty certain that is more work than any other option.

The next step relates to tracking down things that we have to change due to moving from patch 1.69 to 1.78. But this cannot happen until the NWNX work is finished.

In Summary, we are short on coders who can work on the NWNX stuff. So, if you know how to: run a local NWNEE server for your own testing/development (currently automated using Docker), read the NWNX APIs (NWScript), learn to use Redis, and write NWScript, contact me (PM tizmo) for an Avlis developer application.

Edit: Removed requirement for C++, just need to be able to write NWScript and read API documents. Added need to learn about Redis. - tizmo