India must trust me, says Gen. Musharraf

By Malini Parthasarathy

ISLAMABAD, JAN. 16. General Pervez Musharraf, Chief Executive of
Pakistan's military-led Government, has said that India's
attitude of questioning the legitimacy of his regime and its
consequent reticence to engage him diplomatically, is not in the
interest of progress in bilateral relations. Pakistan's new
military ruler, in an exclusive interview to The Hindu, the first
ever given to an Indian newspaper since he took power last
October, pointed out that other countries were now ``coming
around'' and had understood the compulsions of Pakistan's
internal situation. ``Therefore, I would request now that
Indians, in the interest of peace, if they carry on thinking that
this Government is not legitimate when the whole of Pakistan are
with us, 130 million people are with us...I don't know what to
say..we won't progress anywhere.. the reality of the situation
must be understood.'' While affirming that he was for peace in
the region, he also specifically said that India should take him
``at face value'' and that ``they have to trust me and that
whatever I am saying, I mean, and they have to come along.''

General Musharraf, who spoke to this newspaper for about 55
minutes last Saturday morning at his office in Islamabad, made
clear that contrary to the perceptions of him as a hardliner and
nay-sayer on peace initiatives, he was in favour of bilateral
talks, provided the core issue of Kashmir was specifically
addressed. ``We have been trying all kinds of bus diplomacy and
cricket diplomacy and everything. Why has all of it failed? It
has failed because the core issue was not being
addressed...because there is only one dispute, the Kashmir
dispute...others are just aberrations, minor differences of
opinion which can be resolved.'' He said that India must accept
that Kashmir was a dispute. ``Let them accept that we need to
resolve it. And we should start talking.'' He also refuted the
impression created by earlier remarks that he had said that there
was a change in policy and that Kashmir would have to be
discussed first before all other issues. Maintaining that he was
not against a simultaneous discussion of all issues, if Kashmir
was given priority in emphasis, he said he was against the
``apologetic'' tone of the references to the Kashmir dispute in
the Lahore agreement. ``I am not saying that we need to
immediately resolve Kashmir. I am saying that we need to start a
dialogue on Kashmir, we need to accept Kashmir as a problem and
start a dialogue and simultaneously let us discuss everything
else. I am open to discussion on every other thing. What is the
problem?''

Insisting that he had no problem with the existing frameworks for
bilateral discussion such as the Shimla agreement and the Lahore
accord, he maintained that bilateralism had failed because the
main issue, the Kashmir dispute had been ``sidelined''. He made
clear that he was ``not really against bilateralism or talking
with India on a bilateral basis... that is a good way of
addressing if the two side... the two belligerents are
realistic... it shows maturity that both sides resolve their
disputes themselves...'' But since 1972, had the two countries
addressed the main dispute? ``Okay, today, I am saying, let's
start bilaterally. Let's address all issues, Kashmir and other
issues... I'm forthcoming. I will agree on talks, let's face
facts and let's adhere to the Shimla accord... the only thing I
am saying is, let's not please sideline Kashmir because that is
the only dispute.''

Pakistan's Chief Executive strongly rejected suggestions that
Pakistan was providing support and cover for acts of terrorism
such as the recent hijacking of the Indian Airlines flight from
Kathmandu. Asked why his Government could not offer constructive
cooperation when presented with leads that the five hijackers,
identified by the Indian Government as Pakistani nationals, were
in Pakistan, General Musharraf said: ``They are not in Pakistan,
I categorically deny this statement... and if they are in
Pakistan, we will surely proceed against them according to the
law... we do not support hijacking at all... we are against all
forms of terrorism and hijacking is one form of terrorism... we
abhor it and we will not let the terrorists come to Pakistan.''
When it was pointed out that one hijacker had been identified as
Ibrahim, brother of the released Harkat-ul-Mujahideen militant,
Masood Azhar, and was therefore a Pakistani national, General
Musharraf said that he did not know whether that was the case.
``So say the Indians, but as I have said, we haven't spoken to
them (the hijackers), we haven't met them, we haven't seen them.
Now whoever is the hijacker, whatever the relationship with any
one, we are against it... we will not allow it and he'll be put
on trial if he comes to Pakistan.''

Asked whether he had received suggestions from the United States
and other powers to ban and clamp down on the various terrorist
groups involved in the Kashmir insurgency, General Musharraf said
that he had received no such suggestions. However, he did discuss
the issue of terrorism with the group of U.S. Senators who had
been visiting Pakistan that weekend. ``We are absolutely and
totally against terrorism of any form, export of terrorism or
using religion for the purpose of terrorism... if any group is
involved in terrorism, I accept that this will not be allowed
from the soil of Pakistan.''

Significantly, General Musharraf made clear that he was hurt by
the tenor of Indian diplomacy, particularly the campaign to get
Pakistan declared a terrorist state. In a reference to the
External Affairs Minister, Mr. Jaswant Singh's trip to London, he
said: ``This diplomacy that is being carried on...your Foreign
Minister is in the United Kingdom, maybe to undercut this
Government or to malign this Government, to try to get it
declared a terrorist state... if they want to continue like
this... tension will continue... and I may also add that I am not
one of those that when you keep receiving all this flak from
across the border, I keep sitting and turn my other cheek.''

Asked whether in the context of Kargil and the continuing
tensions, including the fact of the nuclear status of both
countries, temporary confidence-building measures could not be
put in place, General Musharraf said that these would look ``like
a farce''. As a former Director-General of Military Operations,
he could say that these were ``really cosmetic'' and hardly
served any purpose. ``Confidence-building measures without
addressing the root cause is just like plucking a leaf from a
tree. You go to the root or otherwise it is not going to serve a
purpose.''

General Musharraf expressed dismay over media reports portraying
him as creating hurdles when the Prime Minister, Mr. A. B.
Vajpayee, had come to Wagah last year and said categorically that
he had discussed the modalities of the entire affair earlier with
the former Prime Minister, Mr. Nawaz Sharif, and it had been
decided that while Mr. Sharif would receive Mr. Vajpayee at
Wagah, he along with the other service chiefs were the first to
receive Mr. Vajpayee when he got off his helicopter in Lahore and
had later met him again at the Governor's House in Lahore. The
Chief Executive also strongly refuted the perception that he was
the main architect of the Kargil episode. The former Prime
Minister was also involved in it, he said. ``Everyone was on
board, I still stand by it, whatever was happening in Kargil,
everyone knew what was happening.''

Asked whether the direct takeover of power by the Army in
Pakistan would make a resolution of India-Pakistan differences
easier than when political administrations were at the helm,
General Musharraf's reply was ``Yes, absolutely.'' He went on to
draw a parallel with the BJP's rule in Delhi. ``Even on the
Indian side, when the intelligentsia talks of who could address
the Kashmir problem, one always thought it would be the BJP,
although the BJP are the hardliners... one always thought here
that maybe Congress would not be able to address the Kashmir
issue, the BJP can.''

Is the U.S. President, Mr. Bill Clinton, visiting Pakistan when
he comes to South Asia? Denying that there was any such stated or
implied linkage between the presidential visit and a timetable
for a return to democracy, General Musharraf, however, said it
would have to be made clear as to what the U.S. President was
coming here for. ``If the President is coming for bringing a
rapprochement between India and Pakistan or bringing peace to the
region... if he is coming to contribute towards the lessening of
tensions... then I really don't see how this objective can be
achieved without going to both India and Pakistan. But if he is
just coming for some economic cooperation... then that is a
different issue altogether.''

We'll bring democracy

On the crucial issue of when and how Pakistan would return to a
democratic system of Government, General Musharraf questioned the
premise of ``return'' to democracy as there had not been any
democracy existing in Pakistan before October. ``There was no
democracy here. We will bring democracy and this will take some
time. The time-frame cannot be given, it's not possible because
before returning to civil rule, there are certain
prerequisites.'' These, he identified as stabilising the economy
and improving governance. He also affirmed that the idea of a
referendum, envisaged earlier, had now been given up as it would
be ``a total distraction'' from the main issues facing the
Government. Asked whether this meant the Army would have a
permanent role in the Pakistani political system, General
Musharraf said that unlike in India, the military was involved in
nation-building, and to say that the military did not have a
role, when it always had, would be ``hypocrisy''. Would he
implement a sentence of death penalty if the former Prime
Minister, Mr. Nawaz Sharif, was awarded one after conviction? The
General's reply was: ``I can't answer that. Let the courts decide
first. And then when I am faced with the issue, I will deliberate
on it... but I am not a very vindictive man...''