The stuff at Berkely is realy in work now.They have to improve BOINC, got the server to version 4, manage hardeware problems and last but not least develope the SETI@home clinet (improve).Ah well also implement other projects.

Last I notice was that only two people where working on BOINC on the UC. But they get good help from other helpers and volentear developers!

So don't give up if there are problems! Maybe you like to join climateprediction.net?

Good thoughts will bring good work. :-)
by myself ;-)
The whole is more then the sum of its particles.
Aristoteles
Best wishes from Berlin(52°35'N,13°23'O), Basti

> thank you, gentlemen, for your opinions. However I don't feel they carry any
> weight. 20 years in senior system administration tells me when something
> doesn't work reliably...And this is one of those times.

It's not necessary to be senior system admin to see that it's not working reliably. We all know that. This is a complete new "design" and it will be reliable with time. Well I hope.

> BOINC seti has spent about 50% of its time non-functional over the last 10
> weeks. Classic seti has proved far more mature and stable.

Classic wasn't as good as it is now when it started. It is also much more simple and limited and will be terminated soon.

> thank you, gentlemen, for your opinions. However I don't feel they carry any
> weight.
>
> 20 years in senior system administration tells me when something doesn't work
> reliably...
> and this is one of those times.
>
> BOINC seti has spent about 50% of its time non-functional over the last 10
> weeks.
> Classic seti has proved far more mature and stable.
>
> ergo - BOINC seti is deleted and Classic is back in place.
>
YOU have no right to be bitching about Boinc!!!
The OLDEST date that you signed up a computer for the program was 2 July 2004!
Some of us have been here from the beginning! You coming late like you did WERE AWARE that the system has issues and yet you STILL joined the project AND you did with 3 additional machines adding them on 4 Aug, 11 Aug and 21 Aug.!!!! You now have a total of 4 machines crunching happily for Boinc.
Take your INDIGNATION about Boinc back home where it belongs!
I will whole heartedly agree that Boinc is not the program that the developers hoped and thought it would be, BUT when you joined that was a KNOWN fact!!!
Some of us have almost a year invested in Boinc, thru both the Beta and regular versions! Do you see us bitching like you are and THREATENING to go back to Classic! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT the programmers ADVISED people to do if they couldn't stand the outages! They ALSO advised people to try some of the other Boinc projects if they wanted to crunch full time while Seti was growing.
You can check out the stats I have here in Boinc in my signature and I will tell you that I have over 44,365 units completed in Classic. I have a farm and I crunch Boinc when it is up and I crunch Classic when it is down. I have a total of 17 computers and at most right now only 7 are on Boinc. I switch them back and forth depending on whether the project is up or down. BUT do you see EVEN ONE post of mine that speaks badly about ANYTHING regarding the Seti Project, Classic OR Boinc! NO and you will not! You as a "senior system administration" should KNOW that any system is only as good as its hardware! And Berkeley is having a VERY bad run of hardware lately! Bad memory chips, bad snap appliance, bad programming language understanding between the different pieces of harware, etc.

Dear Mikey,
Do you try to prove something with all your figures…number of computers, farms and such…?
I do think you forgot that systems are as good as the hardware and the SAs. You should know since you’re running 17 of them!!!

Of course every one have all the right to give an opinion on this situation as well as you taken big words in your mouth. Just because you’ve been around for a longer time doesn’t give you the right to be rude! Shame on you!!!!

science has always been about patience...and a good amount of trial and error...this new BOINC system has a long way to go before it's working the way it should...but these trials we are all sharing in will only help the project be more efficient and stronger when it finally goes out to the rest of the world....seti classic is still there for those who don't have the patience to help BOINC fight though it's growing pains...and also for those who just want to do as much as they can to help seti when BOINC is off-line...right now BOINC is a much bigger pain in the ass for the engineers in charge of making it work...their job is a difficult one...and we should wish them well...instead of sniping about their setbacks.

> Dear Mikey,
> Do you try to prove something with all your figures…number of computers, farms
> and such…?
> I do think you forgot that systems are as good as the hardware and the SAs.
> You should know since you’re running 17 of them!!!
>
> Of course every one have all the right to give an opinion on this situation as
> well as you taken big words in your mouth. Just because you’ve been around for
> a longer time doesn’t give you the right to be rude! Shame on you!!!!
>
I was NOT trying to be rude, but I did type that in an angry mood! I am only trying to prove that with all those stats I have "been there done that" with all these problems and the project continues on! The point that whoever was trying to make was that he was fed up and going back to Classic! The point was trying to make was that he hasn't been here long enough to be fed up!!!

Geeez - at this rate when ET eventually turns up he'll take one look at the bickering, give us up as a lost cause and go find a Galactic Big Mac somewhere :)

Its easy to be destructive, takes very little effort or nounce. It takes a lot of effort and supreme dedication to get ground breaking Projects off the ground. Sure BOINC is having a few teething problems, so go crunch some classics - last time I looked the world was still spinning on its axis.

SETI Classic had immense problems getting up and running, first of its genre etc, so it will be for SETI BOINC, but it will settle. Personally I hope the dev team have rediscovered that strange thing they thought was called a bed, and have surfaced in time from the coma to enjoy what was left of Labour Day.

> > thank you, gentlemen, for your opinions. However I don't feel they carry
> any
> > weight.
> >
> > 20 years in senior system administration tells me when something doesn't
> work
> > reliably...
> > and this is one of those times.
> >
> > BOINC seti has spent about 50% of its time non-functional over the last
> 10
> > weeks.
> > Classic seti has proved far more mature and stable.
> >
> > ergo - BOINC seti is deleted and Classic is back in place.
> >
> YOU have no right to be bitching about Boinc!!!
> The OLDEST date that you signed up a computer for the program was 2 July
> 2004!
> Some of us have been here from the beginning! You coming late like you did
> WERE AWARE that the system has issues and yet you STILL joined the project AND
> you did with 3 additional machines adding them on 4 Aug, 11 Aug and 21
> Aug.!!!! You now have a total of 4 machines crunching happily for Boinc.
> Take your INDIGNATION about Boinc back home where it belongs!
> I will whole heartedly agree that Boinc is not the program that the developers
> hoped and thought it would be, BUT when you joined that was a KNOWN fact!!!
> Some of us have almost a year invested in Boinc, thru both the Beta and
> regular versions! Do you see us bitching like you are and THREATENING to go
> back to Classic! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT the programmers ADVISED people to do if
> they couldn't stand the outages! They ALSO advised people to try some of the
> other Boinc projects if they wanted to crunch full time while Seti was
> growing.
> You can check out the stats I have here in Boinc in my signature and I will
> tell you that I have over 44,365 units completed in Classic. I have a farm and
> I crunch Boinc when it is up and I crunch Classic when it is down. I have a
> total of 17 computers and at most right now only 7 are on Boinc. I switch them
> back and forth depending on whether the project is up or down. BUT do you see
> EVEN ONE post of mine that speaks badly about ANYTHING regarding the Seti
> Project, Classic OR Boinc! NO and you will not! You as a "senior system
> administration" should KNOW that any system is only as good as its hardware!
> And Berkeley is having a VERY bad run of hardware lately! Bad memory chips,
> bad snap appliance, bad programming language understanding between the
> different pieces of harware, etc.
>
>
>
>

BOINC is not the Problem, I wish you thick heads would figure that out, and go get them Mikey you covered it very well........ I am a CHEERLEADER and proud of it......I was around back in 99 and if you think BOINC Seti@H has problems you must be a NOOBY or be short on memory>>>>>>>>>;o) Have a nice day

Wow, I know that telling someone to calm down rarely works, but mikey, you need to seriously chill. SETI@Home is not the second coming (at least not for me). All this bragging and cheerleading is pointless and wasted.

simon_gray wasn't "bitching", he was making an honest observation followed by a personal conclusion. He wasn't suggesting that the rest of the world should follow him, or that Boinc would never succeed. He was just saying, very simply, that Boinc was not for him. Saying that "he hasn't been here long enough to be fed up" is insulting and rude. Remember, it's all volunteers here.

I share simon_gray's frustration, but I'm willing to deal with the confusion for a little longer. mikey, you should be glad simon_gray is still running SETI classic. If I give up on Boinc, I probably go back to Folding@Home. Does that make me evil?

Climate predictor could keep your computers busy for years and years with their long WU's.

I've never been that impressed with seti@home classic...sometimes it seems like the progress bar remains stagnent for very, very long periods of time. It's like they are to lazy to carry the tape with the data 10 feet and upload it to the servers for us to process so they just leave 1 tape in and process it 100 times over...but that's just appearances and it might actually be different in fact.

Truth is every other BOINC project to date seems to have had a smoother time of things then seti...which seems rather odd.

> I share simon_gray's frustration, but I'm willing to deal with the confusion
> for a little longer. mikey, you should be glad simon_gray is still running
> SETI classic. If I give up on Boinc, I probably go back to Folding@Home.
> Does that make me evil?
>
EVERYONE shares Simon Gray's frustration, just not everyone has the right to complain like he did, especially when they haven't been here long enough to KNOW when it runs and when it doesn't!
No it does not you "evil", it makes you a human being with choices available and the ability to make them. We all make choices, some better than others, it is the bitching about it that is "evil"!
If someone is going to leave why do I need to know about it? Why do people feel the need to say, I have crunched for this long and will be quittting because ofthat reason? You and I have NO need to know or even a reason to care about it! Just leave or stay or do whatever! Tell the Berkeley admin's if you must, but leave it out of the message boards, where EVERYONE feels the need to reply!

> EVERYONE shares Simon Gray's frustration, just not everyone has the right to
> complain...

simon_gray most certainly does have the right to post a simple message stating his decision and why he made it. For all your personal involvement, mikey, you have no power to grant or retract this "right", so it's time to get off your high horse.

> If someone is going to leave why do I need to know about it? Why do people
> feel the need to say, I have crunched for this long and will be quittting
> because ofthat reason? You and I have NO need to know or even a reason to care
> about it! Just leave or stay or do whatever! Tell the Berkeley admin's if you
> must, but leave it out of the message boards, where EVERYONE feels the need to
> reply!

You sound deeply afraid of what might happen if people read simon_gray's message. This is not healthy. S@H is a volunteer-based community. As such, open communication involving both praise and criticism is vital. People like me want to know what other volunteers are thinking, and I want to know if people are giving up, too. It doesn't mean I'll follow like a lemming, but I do consider people's reasons for quitting and compare them with my own frustrations. This tends to strengthen my bond with the community.

> > EVERYONE shares Simon Gray's frustration, just not everyone has the right
> to
> > complain...
>
> simon_gray most certainly does have the right to post a simple message stating
> his decision and why he made it. For all your personal involvement, mikey,
> you have no power to grant or retract this "right", so it's time to get off
> your high horse.
>
> > If someone is going to leave why do I need to know about it? Why do
> people
> > feel the need to say, I have crunched for this long and will be
> quittting
> > because ofthat reason? You and I have NO need to know or even a reason to
> care
> > about it! Just leave or stay or do whatever! Tell the Berkeley admin's if
> you
> > must, but leave it out of the message boards, where EVERYONE feels the
> need to
> > reply!
>
> You sound deeply afraid of what might happen if people read simon_gray's
> message. This is not healthy. S@H is a volunteer-based community. As such,
> open communication involving both praise and criticism is vital. People like
> me want to know what other volunteers are thinking, and I want to know if
> people are giving up, too. It doesn't mean I'll follow like a lemming, but I
> do consider people's reasons for quitting and compare them with my own
> frustrations. This tends to strengthen my bond with the community.
>
Absolutely incorrect on all counts!
Simon Gray made statments that he was "fed up" with all the problems, he hasn't been here long enough to be fed up and if he really was fed up he NEEDED to leave! This is a Scientific process and as such can take a very long time to produce the desired results. Patience is a highly desireable asset during the Scientific process! That was my point about him not being here long enough to post that message.

I am NOT afraid of anything people say! If Simon wants to leave, he should by all means go and put forth as much effort as his heart desires into whatever he chooses to do. I have no problems with him leaving, I do have a problem with him saying that he is "fed up" after only about 8 weeks of problems. What about those that have been thru this for over a year!!
If you need to consider why other people do things like quiting a project like this then maybe you are a lemming. I like to make my own decisions and they are based on my own observations, and yes I guess to an extant others points of view, but I in no way, am influenced by people who have not "been there done that"! And Simon has not "been there done that"! Simon I guess has a point of view, but it is so limited in scope as to be disregarded by people with a modicum of intelligence.

If you need to consider why other people do things like quiting a project like this then maybe you are a lemming. I like to make my own decisions and they are based on my own observations, and yes I guess to an extant others points of view, but I in no way, am influenced by people who have not "been there done that"! And Simon has not "been there done that"! Simon I guess has a point of view, but it is so limited in scope as to be disregarded by people with a modicum of intelligence.

Sorry but I disagree.Whether a person has been using seti@home for 8 weeks or 2 years we all are intitled to voicing our view and posting on this forum.I have only been using Boinc seti for one week.I fully understand why some people are leaving Boinc and going back to classic as Boinc is not working properly.Simon's post was just stating that he was leaving Boinc and going back to classic.Fair enough.His choice.Did not find his post offensive or agreesive or rude etc.I am going to run seti 2 and go back to classic when BOINC seti@home breaks down etc.My choice.I have only been using seti@home Boinc for one week but believe I am free to post how I feel on the forums ( as long as it's not rude or insulting etc) and I did not find Simon's message neither.

I thought the message boards were for people voicing their views(reasonable) and giving tips and saying what they thought of seti@home etc.I am not quitting as Rome was not built in a day but I can understand why some people are quitting.They will be back I'm sure after Boinc seti@home is running smoothly etc.I did find it all abit confusing etc to start with with pages not working and message boards etc going blank.Think some people just get confused and when Boinc seti@home stops working they just go back to classic.

I understand your view too.You have stuck with seti@home Boinc for over a year and you feel other people should have the same patiene as you, but we are all diff, we all have diff ways of doing things and waiting things out.You are intitled to your view, so is Simon.

BOINC- with it's current attendant projects has as its' ultimate goal the perfection of a program that can be used successfully by non-scientists to genuinely participate in valid scientific research.
Genuine involvement in real scientific research accesible to anybody with a computer and an uplink is a pretty revolutionary concept.
I'm thinking for this concept to be a success it has to become a no-brainer for the vast majority of volunteers who have no idea what the scientific method entails and really could care less; for most of us are not scientists, only computer owners.

A validator in my experience is a gorilla who stands by a doorway with a florescent wand and checks to see if you are wearing an invisible stamp on the back of your right hand.

Computers are only simple devices for people who use them only for simple purposes. For those who would use computers for complicated scientific research well, ' Carry on!'- that's what computers are good at, right?

If my computer wasn't doing real scientific research it would be my E-mail/ News/ Reference/ Amusement machine and not much else. I dont use it to earn a living and in spite of much brazen experimental tweaking have so far been unable to teach it to mow the lawn.

Soon enough somebody will whack the errant validator a good one with a pipe wrench and it will sputter to life.
Until then my homegrown box continues to do complicated scientific computations clickety-clack and doesn't seem to mind if its validator is on the blink....cc