I’m not against Men’s Rights, but a lot of these blogs are written by guys who have no game and can’t get laid, and serve as just an outlet for being a lifelong sexual loser. It’s like women who get around in their circles to complain about about how men aren’t sensitive or caring enough.

These guys dedicate their time to complaining about feminists or marriage, yet they have zero experience with either! I suspect they are anti-social, bitter virgins who simply don’t have anything else to do with their bountiful free time, too fearful of putting their fragile ego on the line to be a man and actually get laid. They have draining corporate gigs and the only thing they have to look forward to are weekly visits to Chipotle Mexican Grill.

In fact you will not go wrong in life by not listening to a man who can’t get laid. He can be very intelligent but his thoughts are not based on the “real world” where there are guys banging and traveling and starting businesses and having a good time with life. Thinking without doing is nothing but masturbation, something that I suspect these MR bloggers do a lot of.

Now I want you to brace yourself for what I’m about to tell you.

You braced?

A lot of guys in the Men’s Rights community do not believe that game works. Yeah I spit out my vitamin water on the monitor too.

(This is a good opportunity to gripe about the misuse of the acronym PUA. It stands for pick-up artist, which is a man who uses the art of game to pick up women. If you say, “I don’t know if I believe in PUA,” you’re saying “I don’t know if I believe in pick-up artist.” That doesn’t make sense. Game is a philosophy (or lifestyle) that is mastered by guys who can be called pick-up artists or players or whatever. I prefer the player term, though it doesn’t seem to be popular among white males.)

Pretend you’re me for a second, and you’ve read comment after comment by guys who don’t believe in game, when you yourself have made a complete 180 because of it. What further proof can I offer than myself, a sexless wonder who started getting laid only after studying and practicing game?

Unfortunately no proof is enough for Men’s Rights followers. I can film my pickups from start to end, using several lines that are word-for-word what you can find here or in Bang, film the resulting three-minute sex act and declarations of affection from the girl, and they’ll still find some way to rationalize that I’m not using game at all. They’ll say I’m a natural, when they don’t understand I’ve been working on my game every week for going on nine years.

They’ll say, “Roosh is naturally funny, or charming, or okay looking. I’m sure he would do well even without game.” Wrong. I’m “funny” because I’ve practiced my jokes on hundreds of girls. I’m “charming” because I’ve measured the reactions of women to see what works and what doesn’t, and kept only that which got the result I wanted. I’m “okay looking” because I work out, tried different styles, learned how to carry myself, and have rigorously experimented with different hair and beard configurations. I can tell you right now where a Jesus haircut would work well for me versus a hipster shag cut.

If you see me pick up today it does look very natural because I’ve integrated all these game component parts into something fluid that works a good percentage of the time, but there was absolutely nothing fluid about my initial attempts to overcome my inability to get laid.

I don’t hide from you guys that I’ve been rejected a million times. Of course I still get rejected to this day, by girls who for some odd reason don’t want to bang me. If you’ve read A Dead Bat In Paraguay you saw how bad it can get. But I’m very open to learning, and I continue to do so no matter how satisfied I’ve become with where I’m at. For example I used the lessons from those tough six months in South America to come to Colombia and do pretty well with the women. In fact I almost wish I had more troubles so that I would have a “problem” to base a sequel on. But there are none, and I know no one wants to read a memoir about a guy who is happy and getting what he wants.

Then the Men’s Rights guys will say, “But he is SELLING books.”

Yes because anyone who’s passionate enough about a topic to spend months or years to compile their life experiences into works that teach others cannot be trusted. If someone has written a book or produced anything of value, do not listen to them! They’re ruthless businessmen in disguise! I wouldn’t even listen to someone who has a blog because they’re obviously doing it for the fame of receiving many visitors or comments (and in the case of male bloggers, groupies). Or else they would simply maintain a diary that rests inside their nightstand. They blog mainly for their ego. Same for people who post on the same forums for years. They have an ulterior motive of wanting to feel special in knowing that other people respect their four-digit post count and are getting something out of their words.

In fact if you think about it, anyone who shares knowledge is suspect. Lately I only gain knowledge from homeless men who talk outloud to themselves because they’re not doing it for money, fame, ego, attention or any type of satisfaction that comes from helping others. Approach anyone else’s words with extreme hesitation.

Hyperbole aside, all men can learn and improve, whether it’s in business, women, sports, or Chinese checkers. To think that getting laid is genetically determined and that you can’t improve—what a horrible way to live! If I had to accept my lot I would probably be in some shitty job not getting laid and feeling miserable about how “unlucky” I am while complaining about how much women suck. I would be a Men’s Rights follower. I would camp out on blogs and forums all day posting “intellectual” comments for other guys who are socially awkward because they are too scared to step away from the computer monitor for one minute and take some social risk by practicing conversation with attractive women.

But if you tell them, “Bro, you need to approach a girl and get some action,” they’ll say, “Stop using shaming language on me!” That’s their comeback. It’s like a little boy on the playground saying, “Don’t make fun of me! I like eating my boogers!” For guys who supposedly love using logic, they are completely unable to properly defend their lack of action, and have insulated themselves in a protective internet bubble where they gang up on the slightest bit of dissent by saying it makes them feel ashamed. They can’t get laid, they supposedly don’t like women (especially Western women) and don’t want to work to bang them, yet they whine and bitch about women all day long.

Now I’ve whined and bitched about women plenty on this blog, and I think it’s especially fun to get on feminsts and American women, but at the end of the day I’m also banging feminists and American women, drinking with them, having a laugh with them, and cuddling with them until I get bored and need a break from their sense of entitlement and masculine attitudes. Variety is the spice of life and the reason you’re reading me right now is because of the wide range of experiences I’ve had with many different types of women. While I wouldn’t mind being a one-hit-wonder by wearing my plaid shirt every night and going to a hipster bar in D.C. to get laid with minimal effort, there wouldn’t be much advice I can share for men of the world.

The bottom line is that a real man puts himself in new, challenging environments and pushes the limits of his ability and character to get what he truly desires. I greatly admire the 21-year-old who goes onto my forum and posts about a brutal rejection, but perserveres and weeks later shares a success story. I admire the three guys I met in Medellin who all rolled up with little Spanish but got their flags in less than two weeks after approaching like machines day and night. I admire the guy who I saw do his first ever bookstore approach and get a long-term girlfriend out of it. You think they give a shit about Men’s Rights? No, because they use game to get laid with the women they want. They believe in action to accomplish their goals, not mental masturbation with a bunch of guys who have trouble telling you what a vagina feels like, yet can’t stop obsessing over it.

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lol roosh you callin out 2p2 of course they are bunch of internet nerds….lol

stick to bbv4l, thats where it’s at.

anyway nice analogy to fat bitter chicks….

Your Friend

How often do you get laid, exactly? Seems like you wouldn’t have time to blog so much…

Valmont

Game and pua is different. GAME is a set of mindset, behavior and projection while pua is a guy who just collects phone numbers in my own opinion. at the end of the day it’s about quality not quantity otherwise you can go to SA and sleep with cheap hookers all you want.

I’ve been learning game for years and it has helped me a lot. I m now in a semi-relationship with a raging feminist women whom I push her buttons every now and then and guess what she says “she loves me” even if she sees me as a macho.

however I support MR movement when it comes to marriage, because when you get married man the law of the land is in her favor and when people have a lot of options an security they become spoiled and their tolerance level drops. People are selfish creatures and if they can take advantage of something without consequences they will cuz incentives matter.

the secret to keep a women infatuated is to not make her or give her too much security. insecurity is exciting because of the fear of the unknown and fear of loss, it motivates her to work.

now I dont mean to verbally abuse her but I mean when she goes out of line and talks BS then call her on it in a calm demeanor. put her in her place in a coolheaded way, let her EARN your affection.

furthermore, you should never let her feel as if you are not a guy in demand. by the way you walk and talk and behave with other women she can read if you actually have the ability to replace her if she misbehaves or goes out of line.

great books I read on the subject that I recommend everyone are

PIMP:story of my life by Icebergslim
48 laws of power by Robert Greene
Art of Seduction by Robert Greene
Art of Love by Ovid.
ModeOne Alan Roger Currie
Influence by Cialdini

Game in other words is a colloquial term for having a “mating strategy” in my opinion.

every man should develop his “mating strategy” i.e. game

Gordon

I thought you wrote that it was much harder to get laid in Colombia than back home and that you were struggling? Maybe not as much as in Argentina, but still.

BTW, after reading Bang (great book!) I’ve wanted to advise you that maybe one of your mistakes in South America is as simple as not shaving and dressing in jeans and T-shirts – that’s perfectly acceptable in America, but in many cultures that will instantly mark you as low-class and destroy your chances with any girls. In countries with a strong class system, subtle issues of class begin to take on a huge importance, an importance that they never had in America, and little aspects of your dress that seem unimportant to you and ARE unimportant back home will immediately put you in the category of lower-class guy and kill your chances with women. The scruffy look can really hurt you in some parts of the world.

It really can be as simple as that – you must be attentive to class distinctions and make an effort to identify with the upper classes. Also, roosh, you don’t necessarily look “white” enough to be immediately pegged as possibly upper class in South America (where the rich are white for the most part), so for you being scruffy or simply dressing in ways no upper class guy would dream of can be particularly deadly.

I used to live in Thailand, and there you simply MUST dress well and avoid scruffy if you want even a distant shot at the quality girls, and there were always a ton of guys who simply REFUSED to alter their dress, and consequently never got the hotties. Oh well.

Dude, LOTS of the Game community is open to the exact same criticisms, and it’s been bothering me for some time now. It’s very clear that a huge section of the Game community is driven not by success and happiness with women but by a kind of extreme bitterness towards women that is almost always the result of failure and loserness.

Honestly, even a lot of the stuff on Roissy’s site and your site are obviously bitterness driven and highly exaggerated negativity about women – I suppose some of this is inevitable when guys like you and Roissy were once betas who never got laid and were “taken in” by the conventional wisdom about women, and are bitter because of that, but it would make the Game community so much better if they didn’t go on and on about how awful women are and instead presented themselves as successful, happy, well balanced guys who figured out what it takes to get a woman’s affections.

All this stuff about how women are uniquely evil or basically amoral for daring to follow their sexual nature and discard a lower quality man for a higher quality one and are so much more blameworthy than men, to take an example, just sounds like so much bitterness, especially when in the next breath men are excused for following THEIR sexual nature and wanting multiple partners and variety and this is presented as merely healthy and “normal”, and anyone who doesn’t accept it is just a man hater. That’s just kiddie stuff, and the bitterness shines through in the double standards.

The Game community would emerge in a much better light if they just stopped blaming women and morally judging them for following their sexual nature, a nature for which the are not responsible, just as they don’t blame men for theirs.

word

Foe me, Im a little of both. I agree that there are a lot of hapless dorks that are MRAs (Mens Rights Activists) that inhabit the blogs you are talking about. Those guys have never been laid and are simply bitter and hateful towards women.

There are a few different types of MRAs;

1. The hapless dork who can’t get laid and deeply wants to and blames all women and feminists for his plight. (you covered that one)

2. The guy that used to have game, used to bang multitudes of women, and grew to despise them and quit the game. (that was me at one point, but I have since recovered and there were other factors)

3. Men that have been married and put through a particular traumatic event and gotten raped by the courts.

4. Men that simply hate Western Values and want a foreign bride.

The problem is that these sites attract all three types. They don’t differentiate. And the hapless losers post WAY more and outnumber the real originators of the site. (the 3s and 4s.)

I agree with the 3 and the 4s. The marriage laws in this country are fucked, and feminism is partly to blame for that. Also, the last 2 girls I really clicked with were foreign.

But, like Roosh I still bang American skanks and I have used game in my life. The thing with me is that I learned game when I was 12-13-14 years old so it was just normal to me. I didn’t realize it was game.

The main problem I see with the hapless dorks is that they are lying to themselves. They protest a bit too much. What usually ends up happening to these types of guys is that they fall in love with the first psycho that is stupid enough to fuck them. And they get taken to the cleaners.

The reason I didn’t get taken to the cleaners is because I learned what women were about early on and what marriage was about early on. My “failures with Western skanks” (as the hapless dorks would call it) PROTECTED me from the things that they complain about.

http://seasonsoftumultanddiscord.wordpress.com/ Alkibiades

All men need the techniques of game. I use them every day in my LTR. My co-blogger uses them to pile up notches. In my opinion, those who don’t want to believe that game works still have a lot of hang ups and misconceptions when it comes to the true nature of women.

Guys need to realize they need to stop whining (leave that for the bitches) and get out there and start DOING shit.

Chris

Yeah, those guys are lost.

The main difference is that they want to bring back a patriarchal relationship, which I understand to a certain point. Some PUAs beleive in this is well, with their hyper-dominant personalities. I do it to an extent, caveman/direct style or whatever, it works. But the main difference is that these guys want to lock a woman down in a relationship, or marriage, so that the woman only has sex with them and they only with her. They insist on it for any woman that they enter into a relationship with, instead of it happening naturally and BY THE WOMANS OWN CHOICE. The man isnt dialed in enough to make the woman want to naturally be his submissive, through natural attraction. Therefore, she is not. Its the rare devout “family man”, who tries to instill a patriarchical environment through is ideals and actions, that I see that actually has any real control in his marriage. If he does, its through fear, instilled by religion or his own violent behavior. More often than not, the woman wears the pants anyway. However, they become good at putting on a dominant act. You can often spot these relationships by their semi-regular arguments or outright violent acts. Two opposing forces, neither of which likes the relationship dynamic.

There are so many things wrong with this in terms of truly being able to pick your partner in this world. Women don’t want to be possessed, and women don’t want to be forced into a relationship ideal or dynamic. They choose. And they choose through attraction. We choose to master the art of attraction. Natural and happy relationships are the result. As is a lot of sex. The bad relationships are flushed out quickly.

http://www.thegmanifesto.com The G Manifesto

Not too familiar with the whole “Men’s Rights” thing.

But very passionate post Roosh.

This line was great: “They have draining corporate gigs and the only thing they have to look forward to are weekly visits to Chipotle Mexican Grill.”

I think one of the main reasons of your appeal is the fact that others can “relate” to your journey of learning Game.

@Gordon: appearance is everything and how a man projects his image is part of game. A guy has to adapt his looks, because women definitely judge a man by what they see. I agree.

Btw There was this women called Gina Cloud interviewed on Alan roger currie’s show Modeone and she said something like
a) she endorses monogamy and is against open relationships BUT
b)she takes relationship as a day to day thing, i.e. I love you today but I don’t know bout tomorrow and much less a bout next month.

which is fair and dandy but if a women tells me listen Metal, I’m really attracted to you and I want to start a family with you but I don’t know what will happen in a couple year because I have a tendency to get bored quickly or I will crave variety. well guess what, I’m not gonna invest in this women (i.e. buy a house together, start a family).

would you go in a 100% in a business that has a quite shaky base or is prone to very high risks i.e. gambling?

this reminded me of a women I used to date once who asked if I ever cheated, I returned her the question and she said

“me? I have never cheated on a man. I’m very faithful and it is against my moral values to do so. I have always made sure to tell a guy and leave him before I sleep with another”

who wants to invest his time , money and energy long term in a prospect like that with the marital laws being in her favor?

in other words we have become a nation based on short term (1-3 years) relationships based solely on attraction/infatuation/love and no commitment because:
a) men are not stupid to get married
b) women are only committed to passion

which is why the best way these days to keep a women around is to never let her feel too secure and comfortable.

Being in danger of labeled beta here, (which I think my skinny shoulders can bear), but Kevin Driscoll may well not be, and yet he languishes at home on house arrest awaiting trial for a rape that probably never happened 10 months ago.

His job is gone, local standing destroyed, house in foreclosure, mother bankrupted, and to top it all off, has to pay $400 a month for the monitoring fees of his own detention, otherwise it’s prison for him – and he is an innocent man (at least he’s supposed to be considered as such until a trial verdict).

All this for having sex with some hot chick who he didn’t know had a history of false rape allegation, criminal charges and who suddenly found herself in possession of a neat little story for wheedling out of her most recent scrape with the law. And the other magic ingredient of local prosecutors who badly want rape convictions.

I hope the taint of ‘MRA’ isn’t so strong that you or your readers would prefer to let the wolves have him, but should you want to play a part in developing this into the watershed case that it is fast becoming, I urge you to visit Angry Harry’s page here and form your own opinion:

I’ve said it before, and I will say it again. Understanding game, whether you use it or not, is necessary to understand the situation men are in. If you don’t understand game or accept the truth of it, your conclusions about our society is going to be wrong.

Game is about mens rights. Because its about being free from the control/manipulation of women, while still getting what you want/need from them. Good alpha male game is the only way to accomplish this. The result can only come through free choice, for both the man and the woman, that results from good game.

The “Mens Rights Movement” tries to ‘legislate’ this same result through marriage values and a male dominant ideal. But its just that, and ideal, and not a natural choice for both people.

http://roissy.wordpress.com roissy

Pretend you’re me for a second, and you’ve read comment after comment by guys who don’t believe in game, when you yourself have made a complete 180 because of it. What further proof can I offer than myself, a sexless wonder who started getting laid only after studying and practicing game?

yeah, i get a lot of emails and comments from scientifically-oriented guys who doubt the effectiveness of game asking me to “prove it”. i pretty much tell them to try it and find out for themselves whether it works or not.

the problem with “proving” game is that as a scientific question it’s nearly impossible to set up a double blind, controlled experiment that would satisfy their doubts. you’d have to put vagina probes in random chicks and follow around non-game betas and player alphas hitting on all these women until they either got rejected or got the bang. and the women wouldn’t be able to know about it.

luckily, there are smaller limited experiments proving certain tactics of game, such as strong body language that excites women and the concept of preselection by other women.

other than that, the effectiveness of game is mostly going to be by word of mouth, by conceptual vigor, and by observing guys running game getting success with women.

I get pretty passionate about Men’s rights…or gender neutrality as I say, in the workplace and court system.

Outside of that and especially in relationships and game its individuals that matter. Just because a woman doesn’t want dude X to pull her hair and bend her over the couch doesn’t mean she won’t beg dude Y to do the same thing the next night. Aka if you’re having trouble in relationships its probably you, not your gender.

http://girlgame.wordpress.com Sofia

This was an excellent post.

I completely believe in the practical effects of Game on women.

Whilst I don’t ascribe to being a feminist (mainly because it’s not a coherent philosophy, and I disagree with the premises in which it’s popularly perceived), I think a lot of men in these peripheral parts are just seeking outlets for their sexual frustration. Game is about being proactive, not being a whiny pathetic loser who is complaining because females have sexual selective advantage, which I think speaks volumes about the kind of man who says that.

Game is for the kind of autistic, nerdy guy who speaks to logic, rationality, outlined and clear rules anyway. It’s something that should be celebrated not decried, for giving everyone an equal chance.

The truth in this is pretty limited. Game is designed for nerdy guys looking to learn the rules. They’re not born Alphas… I’m going to shut up about that aspect of your observation, and focus on the latter, because I’ve taken Women’s Studies courses in one of the most SWPL cities in North America.

Women’s studies attracted a dichotomy of women: women who were damaged or rejected in some way and seeking a place to belong, or a justification for their inner loneliness, or vapid sluts looking to champion a cause, any cause, to fulfill this need for campus activism and being an empathetic and caring individual.

So, no, women who don’t care about feminism aren’t necessarily beautiful, just comfortable with who they are in society. I don’t care about feminism because it’s a dumb, inchoate philosophy that’s removed from practicality and actuality.

I also agree with the general sentiment that unless we’re talking about “family law” stuff and the court system. Men’s rights is a bunch dudes who never get laid.

Tim

Tim

I love the brutal fashion in which this post was written. *

z

Roosh,

I hope you are having a great time in South America.
My primary men’s rights issue is the financial rape a man suffers in most divorces (and attendant isolation from his children), even when his marital conduct was very good and his wife’s was bad. Im dissapointed in the treatment of males by the media also, where several commercials (and tv sitcoms) endlessy portray them as insensitive idiots.

Concerning men complaining about women’s sexual choices: After a man gets some pent-up frustration off his chest (the internet allows for this quite well), all a man can do is read about the things he can change to have more success. The material is out there these days. Its not like back in the 80’s and 90’s when a guy who was getting shot down night after night had nowhere to look for clues as to what he might be able to change about his approach to have more success meeting the ladies. These days there is much information about women’s psychology that can help men understand why women are making the mating choices that they are making, and what he can do to get into her “erotic field of view”.

I think getting the divorce/child support/division of assets laws changed are the tantamount issue at hand for men in the United States. Men are “framed” as financial chumps the day they put a ring on their bride’s finger, and doubly so after they have their first child in many states. A woman isn’t risking much of anything getting married to a man, but a man is risking so much. In her mind, she must see him as a quite unequal business parter whom she can shaft at any time. Thats not a good foundation for respect in the marriage as both parties aren’t making the same potential sacrafice to be together. Currently the sacrafice and risk is primarily his and has him meta-framed in her mind as an optional accoutrement in her life that she can do quite well without, and her a precious asset in his life that he is financially deathly afraid to “lose” to another because of the loss in mating market value to other potential mates upon her loss due to the financial blow he will take. She can “hurt” him in the mating market quite badly post-marriage, but all he can do is give her a lot of his money. Many men will still be interested in at least servicing her physically. Its a legal disparity, and I hope it gets fixed.

http://alliemarien.wordpress.com/ alliemarien

no matter how you look it…chipotle should never be the thing you look forward to…if that’s all you have, at least learn how to cook

I have just recently come into contact with these MR minded men who have the nerve to look me in the eye and tell me that Game has nothing to do with my success with women. These men strike me as almost hopeless in the sense that they gave Game maybe a half-hearted effort at best and then claim that since it didn’t work for them, it works for NO ONE and that if you are having any success, it’s because you’re “being yourself” and have natural talent with women. Even worse, is I’ve met just as many guys who make the same allegations who haven’t even read a single book about Game and base all of their opinion off an episode of The Pickup Artist.

Call me crazy, but I could never understand making a decision based solely off of ignorance. I agree with Roissy when he says that the difficult part is there is no concrete method or scientific approach in which you could “prove” that Game actually works.

What many of these men (or society in general) don’t understand, is that Game isn’t about shacking up with as many women as possible. Do some use it for this purpose? Sure, and to each their own, but the true philosophy/concept behind Game isn’t to just improve one’s success rate with women, it’s life changing. People go through incredible transformations after retaining the knowledge that Game has to offer.

Also, the majority of men out there are simply too stubborn or prideful to actually take advice from someone else on how to improve their skills with women. But at the same time it’s beneficial because even though Game it “out in the open”, it’s still hasn’t gone mainstream, and thank God that I don’t believe it ever will.

This may be a little out of context, but I believe in God and have kind of found myself taking my approach with Game the same way I do the Bible. You can read the Bible, you can go to church once a week, you can give money to the church, you can fast religiously, you can do everything, but until you actually grasp what it is the Bible tries to teach and decide to take on that character/mentality, all those things mean nothing. A book is a book and words are just words, and unless you actually give it an honest effort and experience it for yourself, that’s all they’ll ever be.

Like you said, there is no way to prove it, what else can I offer you besides the example of myself? The truth is there is nothing else, but that is why we remain as those which are enlightened.

P. S. I’ve been reading “Female Chauvinist Pigs: The Rise of Raunch Culture” and it’s a very interesting book that speaks about feminism and how it backfired on society and women. I highly recommend it.

Blox

Well like anything there’s an idea and then there’s an idea taken to the extreme. I know a lot of guys who have suffered some serious emotional trauma after being taken advantage of by a combination of divorce laws and vindictive women.

I’m sure 80% of guys who get laid and stay single could easily have been in the same situation as two of my friends. There are a lot of scheming women out there.

However, remaining bitter only makes things worse for yourself. Although I can sympathize with anyone who’s suffered the disadvantage divorce laws pose to a lot of men, I can’t sympathize with those who are just bitter without reason or had an experience occur a decade ago. I’m assuming you are aiming this post at the latter, because men’s rights is something that shouldn’t be overgeneralized. There are serious problems out there.

The truth

And so it begins…

This is why there will never be a men’s rights revolution. The male unity required for such a thing doesn’t exist and it never did.

The large number of men who are doing pretty well for themselves as it is want nothing to do with the angry bottom-feeders raging on MR message boards and blogs. They have absolutely nothing to win by aligning themselves with losers who have the stink of failure around them.

I honestly don’t know what should be done with the hordes of angry lower betas that nobody needs or wants. In old times, wars between nation states have culled surplus males at regular intervals, but the world has changed somewhat in that regard.

I’d almost say that the internet, with all the possibilities it provides for meeting like-minded people, has been a very mixed blessing for the hopeless guys who just can’t get laid. The endless preaching to the choir that goes on in the MR scene only makes matters worse and leads the socially maladjusted men further down the spiral of anger and resentment. A lot of them are already beyond saving.

Chris

Sofia, I like a lot of what you said, but I have to disagree with one thing. “Game” isn’t just for nerds. I can’t tell you how many ‘Alpha’, and otherwise cool/non-douchy guys that I know that just needed some tweaks here and there to vastly increase their success with women. Some of these guys have model good looks and TONS of friends. Including copious amounts of female friends who they just weren’t really capitalizing on. They just needed some small adjustments to their perspective and behavior. But yes, it helps nerdy guys as well. There are guys at all levels that “game” can help. Its the very rare guy that is flawless in this respect.

Also, I have to clarify that real “upper level” game, the stuff that really works, is very little about what a man says, but about how he feels about himself. Therefore, “game” is really about improving the man, rather than a series of lines or ‘games’ that he runs on the girl. A player needs very little in the way of routines once he gets himself together. How anyone could bash, or otherwise say that this doesn’t work or is a bad thing, is beyond me. It about being a more actualized and all around manlier and better man.

Z, I completely agree with you. How the court system became this way is a crime in the extreme. Its pretty much too risky to get married today. Therefore, ‘game’ assures men that they can get their needs met without having to commit to marriage to do so. As you well know, being emotionally forced to get married for fear of lack of access to sex, is a doomed to fail strategy. However, a common one.

Roosh

“Game and pua is different. GAME is a set of mindset, behavior and projection while pua is a guy who just collects phone numbers in my own opinion. at the end of the day it’s about quality not quantity otherwise you can go to SA and sleep with cheap hookers all you want. ”

So both you and the pua study from the same resources, yet when he does it it’s called pua and when you do it it’s called game? No.

“I thought you wrote that it was much harder to get laid in Colombia than back home and that you were struggling?”

It took some time to adapt to where i was getting similar (or better) quality and quantity as american girls, but i dont remember saying i was “struggling”, like say argentina.

“How do you feel about the statement that you made and that I supported that “virgins are worthless to listen to”? Just curious”

Bottom line is why would i follow advice from a guy who is in a way different life stage than i am? His worldview is planets away and i doubt we’d even get into a conversation unless it’s him asking me for advice (which i dont mind).

14: In that case i might as well sign up with the anti-lightning strike society since there is a chance i will be hit my lightning. ill worry about shit like that if it happens to me.

“My primary men’s rights issue is the financial rape a man suffers in most divorces”

The divorce issue keeps popping up. Okay so divorce fucks men… so dont get married! You have a choice! And if you truly want to get married, then go foreign. Not a big deal.

gio

Valmont,

thanks for giving us some of the science of the game….and thanks for the book tips…..obviously, you’ve been around the block a little….

peace, Gio

Metalhaze

“So both you and the pua study from the same resources, yet when he does it it’s called pua and when you do it it’s called game? No.”

well guess I’m a pua without knowing it. the I see it games to me means “having a game plan” a “short term and longterm mating strategy”. was casanova a pua then? lord byron? porfirio rubirosa?

A debate a lot of women bring up is if they sleep around, men “respect” them less as long-term material and prefer to shack up/get married/ start a family with a young women who is less experienced sexually.

This is the constant debate I have with most feminist the “he’s a stud, she’s a slut”. though ironically, a lot of men don’t call women sluts as much as OTHER WOMEN call each other sluts!

However , the way I see it, life is about choices and options so if a man wants to choose a young “virgin” (if they exist in this country hehe) or not too experienced women then that’s his choice even if he was a PIG in real life!

perhaps you could dedicate a post as an answer to that (from your perspective) because most of the women in liberal countries out there (even feminists) want to settle one day down and have kids (marriage or no marriage), however most men are reluctant to settle down with a women who’s been round the block (though this trend is changing?ex: sweden or newzealand).

A lot of this ‘MRA’s are losers’ and ‘Gamesters need a woman’s validation’ crosstalk is getting tired.

I mean, sure there are some guys who can’t get laid, will pile on any guy who does, and call himself big on men’s rights.

And there are guys big into game because they can’t imagine a life without pussy, and part of their scorn of other men is because it lays doubt on their own preferences – I mean, who would want to be a success at anything if no-one was watching right?

But back in the real world, everyone’s motivated by what matters to them. Better to live and let live – unless you only want to be surrounded with nodding heads, but if that’s what you want, why not just come out and say it?

hhh

You’re in a prime of your life, that’s why you’re still getting laid. Early 30’s is as good as it’ll ever be for you and “game” has little to do with it. See if it works for you when you’re 40, then I’ll be impressed (unless you make some $ by then, in which case “game” still won’t account for your “success” with girls).

5ive

37: That would make sense if Roosh was getting laid before his game. But he wasn’t.

mike

hhh-

You are so incredibly, insufferably wrong. Are you a man? You can’t possibly be because you would understand just what effect confidence and game has on your ability to get laid.

I did the most damage from the ages of 13-17 and 19-24. I am older now and in what you would consider my “prime” and I dont get laid nearly as much.

The difference then was that I was driven and had that hunger. I had something to prove to myself. I simply don’t have that anymore. That drive and determination to prove something to yourself is what sets men on the road and game is the skill set that they develop.

GlobeTrotter

Ok. Good Post. It is true. I found dating women overseas to be much more enjoyable than dealing with women in the United States aka Western Women.

These Men’s Rights guys are WRONG because they don’t understand that USA women make up such a small percentage of women in the entire world. Like 1 to 2% tops. So they fail to experience the other 98% of women in the world, and waste time blogging about stuff that’s not even worth their time.

Dating, Women, Sex, etc is all SUPPLY and DEMAND. If you don’t like how the sexonomics work here, then go overseas.

Eventually these MR will let American women affect more than their sex lives, and that’s when they truly lost all of their manly power.

I would recommend these guys realize that American Women are brainwashed, and it’s much easier to go abroad than expect the stakes to change anytime soon.

http://www.chicnoirhouse.blogspot.com chic noir

I admire the guy who I saw do his first ever bookstore approach and get a long-term girlfriend out of it.

Guys who are sure that game doesn’t work are committed losers who deserve no sympathy. There is ample documentary evidence that game works, certainly enough to justify one’s own experiment in the real world. And once you start, it doesn’t take long to discover meaningful evidence that the principles of game DO in fact work. Women look at you differently, they stay in conversations longer, even guys adjust their attitudes. You don’t have to make it all the way to seduction to realize that game works and is worth continuing effort.

It’s not easy, however, especially for someone with social anxiety. You DO have to face your fears and actually get out there, and rejection IS part of the process, especially if you push yourself hard while you are learning (which is the best way to get results).

Guys who are sure that game doesn’t work almost certainly have not tried it. I feel about as sorry for them as I would for someone complaining that they don’t have a college degree just because they didn’t go to college.

Mia

So, no, women who don’t care about feminism aren’t necessarily beautiful, just comfortable with who they are in society. I don’t care about feminism because it’s a dumb, inchoate philosophy that’s removed from practicality and actuality.
Sofia, dear, you don’t know what are you talking about.
You need some time to grow, and read hundreds of books before giving your opinion based on women studies.
Women work two-thirds of the world’s working hours and produce half the world’s food yet they earn only 10 percent of the world’s income and own less than one percent of the world’s property.
This is quite comfortable, for you?

Mia

About men’s rights:
• Of the 1.3 billion people living in extreme poverty worldwide, more than two-thirds of them are women and girls.
• Women work two-thirds of the world’s working hours, and produce half of the world’s food, yet earn only 10 per cent of the world’s income, and own less than one per cent of the world’s property.
• Two-thirds of all children denied school are girls, and 75 per cent of the world’s 876 million illiterate adults are women
• Women hold only 14 per cent of the world’s parliamentary seats.
• Gender-based violence kills one in three women across the world.
• Gender-based violence is the biggest cause of injury and death to women worldwide, causing more deaths and disability among women aged 15 to 44 than cancer, malaria, traffic accidents, and war.
• As a result of violence and neglect, there are 50 million fewer women in South Asia today than there should be.
• Women work two-thirds of the world’s working hours, and produce half of the world’s food, yet earn only 10 percent of the world’s income, and own less than one per cent of the world’s property.
• Two-thirds of children denied primary education are girls, and 75 percent of the world’s 876 million illiterate adults are women.
• Every extra year a girl spends at school could reduce child mortality by ten percent.
• More than half a million women die in pregnancy and childbirth every year: of these deaths, 99 percent are in developing countries. In parts of Africa, maternal mortality rates are 1 in 16.
• Women hold only 14 percent of parliamentary seats worldwide, and only 8 percent of the world’s cabinet ministers are women.
• Only eleven countries have met the UN target of 30 percent female decision-makers.
• In New Zealand, 20 percent of women will be physically abused by a male partner and one in five women will be a victim of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime.
• In Samoa, 46 percent of women have been abused by their partner
• In Fiji 41 percent of women who experienced violence reported being hit while pregnant.
Sources: OXFAM, UN, UNICEF, UNIFEM, WHO

Many -if not most- of the men who are interested in Game and interpersonal gender relations are also interested (to varying degrees) in men’s rights and sociocultural gender relations. For this reason it is foolish to bash men’s rights advocates, as MRA’s and Gamers ultimately are struggling to cope with the same problems – the fallout from feminism and the sexual revolution.

I disagree that a man who rarely/never gets laid’s opinion is irrelevant. I think it’s extremely relevant in a canary-in-the-coalmine type of way. Those at the bottom often offer us more insight into society than those in the middle and the top.

I also disagree that Game can solve the majority of men’s larger problems with women as a gender, which are ingrained in the machinery of culture and government. If you get falsely accused of rape, or tricked into paternity, or robbed in divorce court, or custody stolen from you – Game will not save you. Only an MRA can.

I however agree with the criticism of many (if not most) current MRA’s as retrograde conservative types who simply reject all notions of Game and a realistic understanding of female nature – this alone would lead them to favoring the type of outdated Patriarchal structures they seem to favor. To them it’s as if the factors which drove the sexual and cultural revolutions of the 60’s and onward were simply inventions of Marxist, Jews or the Illuminati – they refuse to acknowledge that there are real human-nature driven reasons behind it, which Game addresses, and of course which leads such neo-Patriarchs to reject Game as well.

jumpin77

Sofia said: “Game is about being proactive, not being a whiny pathetic loser who is complaining because females have sexual selective advantage, which I think speaks volumes about the kind of man who says that.”

Feminism – of which you’re an agent/beneficiary of whether you adhere to it or not – is driven by resentment against the male “relationship selection” – ie the tendency to give the most attention, relationships (and thus resources – protection and wealth via the relationship) to the most attractive (upper 20%) of females.

Under feminism, women collectively have been given artificial and “free” access to male evolutionary resources (male systems and their products – rights, wealth, education, jobs, goverment, etc) without having to trade female evolutionary resources (sex, babies, nesting, nurturing) to get it as they would in a “natural” ancestral environment.

IOW, feminists have subverted and severely weakened male “relationship resource selection” of women, while at the same time increasing female sexual selective pressures upon men (men don’t have free or independent access to female evolutionary resources – but still have to “pay” via status and wealth as they always have). This is what MRA’s as well as many PUA’s are resentful of – and are not simply “natural born losers” who can’t compete as you’ve characterized it, but have been put at a severe disadvantage artificially.

Male rights and Game, IMO, is about men also gaining “free” and artificial access to female evolutionary resources, as to balance the scales, to also reestablish male relationship (and thus resource) selective pressures upon women.

I however agree with the criticism of many (if not most) current MRAâ��s as retrograde conservative types who simply reject all notions of Game and a realistic understanding of female nature â�� this alone would lead them to favoring the type of outdated Patriarchal structures they seem to favor. To them itâ��s as if the factors which drove the sexual and cultural revolutions of the 60â�²s and onward were simply inventions of Marxist, Jews or the Illuminati â�� they refuse to acknowledge that there are real human-nature driven reasons behind it, which Game addresses, and of course which leads such neo-Patriarchs to reject Game as well.

His job is gone, local standing destroyed, house in foreclosure, mother bankrupted, and to top it all off, has to pay $400 a month for the monitoring fees of his own detention, otherwise it’s prison for him – and he is an innocent man (at least he’s supposed to be considered as such until a trial verdict).

All this for having sex with some hot chick who he didn’t know had a history of false rape allegation, criminal charges and who suddenly found herself in possession of a neat little story for wheedling out of her most recent scrape with the law. And the other magic ingredient of local prosecutors who badly want rape convictions.

Anonymous

There is one thing that MRAs and PUAs have in common: hating women, but wanting sex with female bodies. Women can weed out both types by not having sex with a man unless you know him well and he has demonstrated longterm serious interest in you, preferably through marriage. Ladies, quit hanging out at bars and nightclubs, refuse one-night stands, and never compromise your self-respect nor let anyone undermine your confidence. And look for the guy who’s a little shy, a little awkward – stay away from the cocky, flashy men and their wannabe buddies. There are some truly good men out there. Follow this advice and you’ll find one. Even better, that’s one less notch on a PUA belt and one more MRA learning (slowly, yes, but it’s a start) that sex is a privilege, not a right.

van

in this day and time 98 percent of women only have sex with men that they think are attractive. not all guys are attractive and that can kill there game. its a fact. if the guy dont look good or have a penis 10 inches long or more he can forget it. unattractive men in this world suffer. every guy wants it but not every man can get it. i knew a guy awhile back that ended up commiting suicide by cop because he could never get laid. it actually drove him to take his own life and all the pro help in the state couldnt help him. women knew it and made fun of him so did guys. i knew the guy would end up killing himself but i never dreamed he would do it that way. a toy gun is no match for a real one and thats the way he wanted it.like i said unattractive men in this world suffer and whenever a woman picks up on that they either make fun of them or play with there head or just stay away from them all together

http://www.micrositez.co.uk/seo-glasgow.htm Seo Glasgow

Cookies are actually small text files, they really can not damage your computer system or any files on your hard drive. Once again, they cannot transmit viruses as viruses are executable in nature. Some users may just not want to be tracked and this is one of the primary reasons why many people just disable accepting cookies

Roger

Roosh, I can appreciate a lot of things you write but this entry is full ahead and way off target.
They say a writer should write what he knows about otherwise he risks embarrassing himself. You have definitely embarrassed yourself here.

However unhappy or cynical a lonely bachelor may be about their dating situation, it takes someone that has actually been there and done the whole dating / relationship / marriage / fatherhood thing to truly express the harshest aspects of the Mens Rights movement.

In a nutshell, it ain’t the unpopular guys that tend to have the hardest attitudes about women. It’s the ones who have been “successful” with the chicks, and are now paying the emotional / financial / parental / spiritual price for it. I think you are slowly waking up to this since your recent posts suggests you prefer to be in other countries.

There are a lot of guyslike yourself become “game” to grudge-fuck. Whereas one could argue this is the reaction to the current status quo of the way things are, however sometimes it is better not to react at all. Gaming is not a healthy response to a toxic environment.

http://deleted easier than that

Game definately works. The down side is the whole femmy-mindset that tends to go with it. The incessant navel gazing and long winded psycho-babbling and emotional rants that go with it. Its interesting that you like to put a dollar price/value on getting a shot off, yet the mental price is a drag, the likes of which cannot be measured.

The real challenge for the male-centered tacit rejection of femmy-nuttism inherent in pua lifestyle and philosophy, is to shed the whinny skin of femmy navel gazing, half-baked analysis and rationalisation and simply be a man about it all. ie, how to get yours and leave the stories about how you feel about it and how her mind ticks for the girly jerk circles.

Both the so-called mra and pua communities are really just mirror images of the same fiminised whiney bitch fest that has infected male conciousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights Do your research about Men’s Rights

Men’s rights is not about hating women or being bitter that you’re not getting laid. It’s a bulwark against the out of control feminist movement that robs fathers of their children and sends innocent men to jail for rapes they didn’t commit. It seems to me that PUAs and MRAs are on the same side, because if the feminist movement continues the way it is now any man who wants a no-strings relationship is in danger.

That said, PUAs are part of the reason the feminist movement exists. When you boil it down, “game” is the ability to convince a woman you’re worth having sex with, which more often than not means lieing about who you are as a person. This isn’t to say that it doesn’t work; it does, and many women have been taken to bed by skilled PUAs. The problem is that every woman you dehumanize as a conquest puts that much more gunpowder in the feminist canon.

If you use game because it makes meeting women easier then go for it, because as long as you’re honest about who you are there’s nothing wrong with sleeping around.

If you use game to manipulate women into sleeping with someone you’re not then you’re a monster. But if one of these women decides to lie herself and say you raped her then you better hope to hell the MRAs have made some progress.

The MRA spouting the former should just admit that they’re too cowardly and/or lazy to put enough effort towards game. The PUA spouting the latter should accept that getting laid doesn’t put them on a higher plane of cognition concerning anything else.

“In fact if you think about it, anyone who shares knowledge is suspect. Lately I only gain knowledge from homeless men who talk outloud to themselves because they’re not doing it for money, fame, ego, attention or any type of satisfaction that comes from helping others. Approach anyone else’s words with extreme hesitation. ”

:laugh:

Amido

Not all men’s rights guys are anti-game, not at all.

I heard about game through MR circles.

John

So OP basically lives to stick his dick in meat?

If that is what makes you happy, good for you.

For me there is more to life than being obsessed with c@nt …

Robert

Men are not getting laid due to cash $$$$$$$$$$

Have people seen how some of these Mens Rights Activist look. I am in awe at the total disgust and inability to do basic human functions.

If Feminist want to pick on man due to his income let that be confirmation to the reason why he is single!

While it’s easy to make the connection between MRA and “sexual loser”, the Men’s Rights movement would do well to work to break that connection by focusing on other issues.

As difficult as it sometimes might be, a man can survive without getting laid, but not without the ability to earn a living. I once experienced a very lengthy (multi-year) period of unemployment, and I seethe with rage when I recall that it is a matter of public policy to starve single men (especially those over 35) in order to provide preference for cunt married to men making $150K for jobs making $60K so that they can find “fulfillment”. Perhaps if MRAs focused on this they’d have better luck.

Anonymous

@55
In the “approach=sexual harassment” and low “status approaching guy=creeper” Era GAME simply doesn’t exist.
Sex is a natural right for men, not a privilege:
RAPE must be decriminalized.

Anonymous

@56
The definition of RAPE itself is mysandry. No woman deserves to lead a man to alienation and suicide by the continue rejection and live alone fucking only alphas and get help by men-paid welfare, this is genocide.
Cops are a part of the cancer.
I hope talibans will save us.

Anonymous

Every womyn who rejects an approach from a male that exceeds a kindly express disinterest and ‘NO’ is against man’s self-confidence and ability to approach women in future, then she should be guilty of a crime as serious as a rape or sex with a minor. She deliberately wounded a man’s ability to succeed with other women. Time to stop the double standards: moral rape on men are not less important than rape on womyn.

KrisW

It is the difference between viewing women as either human beings or blow up dolls. I choose to view them as human beings, for better or worse; while you choose to view them as blow up dolls.

What this boils down to, is that a segment of MRA’s view the behavior you advocate to be disgusting.

So, like a typical school girl Roosh, your playing tit for tat.

It is not a matter if it works or not(Game), what is at issue is that it is unethical and vile.

Wes

It’s funny that you characterize MRA’s as dateless virgins, since many of us have come out of bad marriages or relationships. I’m all for getting laid, but letting your dick do all your thinking can lead to some really bad decisions. Do any of you lessons include false rape allegations or paternity suits? If not, the only “game” you have these guys playing is Russian Roulette. I suggest reading Men On Strike by Helen Smith for more on this.

Jesus Christ

Because there are no other tiypes at all and this is totally not bulshit./s

Roosh World Tour 2015

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