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Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Hey playground,

I need help: my DM is letting me play a level 5 gestalt paladin, and for 1 side of my gestalt I can take Prestige Paladin instead of the generic version. so my build looks like this Paladin 4/Prestige Paladin 1// LA +1/Mystic urban Ranger X/ maybe something else X

I want SoTAO.

my conundrum is that I dont want any Overlapping class features on the paladin side. what ACFs shpould I take to get rid of the Paladin features I immediatly get right back form Prestige Paladin?

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

taking Prestiege paladin is pretty much a terrible idea, for these reasons:

Half the spellcasting of Paladin. just because you normally only gain every other level to spellcaster level, doesnt mean that loosing 1 paladin casting progression every other level is worth it.
there are NO acfs for Prestiege paladin. the way PrC paladin condenses makes ACFs and substitution levels even more of a headache to take.

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Originally Posted by toapat

taking Prestiege paladin is pretty much a terrible idea, for these reasons:

Half the spellcasting of Paladin. just because you normally only gain every other level to spellcaster level, doesnt mean that loosing 1 paladin casting progression every other level is worth it.
there are NO acfs for Prestiege paladin. the way PrC paladin condenses makes ACFs and substitution levels even more of a headache to take.

He could flip it. Take the ACF's for his normal paladin progression then get the normal pally class features back via prestige paladin.

That said, I tend to agree that if you're going SotAO you shouldn't be dropping that many caster-levels. This leads me to assume that you're going to be using the mystic ranger spell-casting for SotAO then, right?

I am not seaweed. That's a B.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.

Originally Posted by LTwerewolf

[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Originally Posted by starship1

Yes, as well as trying to get Battle Blessing for 2/spells a round

You're carving away too much paladin casting for battle-blessing to be a worthwhile feat choice.

You could use the Prestige paladin progression on the ranger side. You'd slow your spellcasting a bit but you'd still hit the 5th level spell cap, if I understand correctly. Then BB would be viable again.

I am not seaweed. That's a B.

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Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell

Kelb, recently it looks like you're the Avatar of Reason in these forums, man.

Originally Posted by LTwerewolf

[...] bringing Kelb in on your side in a rules fight is like bringing Mike Tyson in on your side to fight a toddler. You can, but it's such massive overkill.

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Originally Posted by toapat

because you cant get rediculous spell slots without that, and Prestiege paladin does not recieve the benefits of battle blessing.

It does, actually:

Unique Spells

The bard, paladin, and ranger spell lists contain a number of spells that don't appear on other classes' spell lists. In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class. At the game master's discretion, spells unique to that class's spell list found in other books may also be available, but on a case by case basis.

This means that Prestige Paladins get Paladin spells too, at the same levels (i.e. lesser restoration is a first-level spell for both standard paladins and prestige paladins), and therefore they are eligible for BB on any of those particular spells. (But it wouldn't let him, say, apply Battle Blessing to his cleric spells.)

Originally Posted by The Giant

But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Originally Posted by Psyren

*Psyren quoting something without understanding my point, but making a good argument none the less*

Although it is automatically given that a Paladin of 4th level or higher qualifies for Battle Blessing, The specific wording of the feat makes it so that Prestige Paladin does not, because <Class> Spells, has no RAW definition.

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Originally Posted by toapat

Although it is automatically given that a Paladin of 4th level or higher qualifies for Battle Blessing, The specific wording of the feat makes it so that Prestige Paladin does not, because <Class> Spells, has no RAW definition.

Sure it does. "Paladin Spells" are defined on PHB pg. 191.

Even an Archivist can take the feat, simply because they can learn these exact same spells. (The feat will only apply to these spells.)

Last edited by Psyren; 2012-11-16 at 11:14 PM.

Originally Posted by The Giant

But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Even an Archivist can take the feat, simply because they can learn these exact same spells. (The feat will only apply to these spells.)

If <Class> Spells is seriously just shorthand for "Spells found on a given class's spell list" (This seems too sensical for WotC circa 1999), then im pretty sure every class in the game can take Battle blessing, As a result of i dont think a single class that gets vancian based casting doesnt have read magic as a spell.

Although it looks more like you have to actually be able to cast the specific spell list, as the term seems to actually be referring to not just spells castable by the class, but the specific setup of spells which make up that list.

Re: Paladin into Prestige Paladin?

Originally Posted by toapat

Although it looks more like you have to actually be able to cast the specific spell list, as the term seems to actually be referring to not just spells castable by the class, but the specific setup of spells which make up that list.

It's the latter - but even if it were the former, it would still only apply to those specific spells from the paladin list anyway, so it's hardly broken.

I know it's the latter because of the wording used by individual classes. Clerics cast spells that "are drawn from the cleric spell list", Wizards cast spells that "are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list" and Paladins cast spells that "are drawn from the paladin spell list." So Clerics, even when casting spells that they have in common with other classes (like Paladins) are still drawing from the cleric spell list to do so. Battle Blessing therefore does not apply to them.

Compare this wording to that of the Archivist - he does not "draw from the Archivist spell list" because there isn't one. Instead, he "draws primarily from the cleric spell list, although he can eventually uncover, learn and prepare noncleric divine spells."

Originally Posted by The Giant

But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?