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Do you have a moral upbringing?

Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:33 pm

by Double Gobble

I know a guy and his son and I considered them friends until today. They have the luxury of hunting in a place most people dream about hunting or they spend their life savings to hunt and kill a deer there. The rules are very strict on this place about what can and can not be shot. I let a 140- 150 class 8 point walk there last Saturday because he was a 3.5 yr old deer. He and his son sat in a stand and shot a deer that should be growing for two more years when they gave their word that they would abide by the rules. How does someone do something like this? The deer they shot wasn't anything special. I just don't get how you tell a man one thing and then turn around and shoot a deer on a place that he has millions/ yes millions of dollars sunk into when you get to hunt there for free because of his good graces. I thought they were good, honest, folks. I guess you never really know everything about anyone.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:38 pm

by USAFdeerhunter

Is it possible that they thought the rule only applied to adults? I am assuming by son we are talking a youth? I have hunted places before that have minimum age/size limits for adults, but let youth shoot any legal buck because they like seeing the kids shoot deer.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:57 pm

by Double Gobble

It's NOT possible.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:02 pm

by USAFdeerhunter

Well it sucks if they broke known rules and betrayed a landowners generosity. People that do that make it harder for honest people to find a good place to hunt.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:13 pm

by triple_duece

Good way to wear out your welcome in my eyes.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:14 pm

by LadyHunter

Does the landowner know? Or did they try to hide it?

Now for me, if someone with that type of property generously allowed me the opportunity to hunt, I would be extremely away of the rules. I would enjoy watching the deer and second guess everyone one on size.

Since you indicated that the deer they killed was not special I would guess they knew it was too small for the regulations.

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:27 pm

by Double Gobble

Yes the landowner knows and he is highly pissed to say the least. They knew the rules and broke them. They loaded the deer and left before he could see the deer. How much more guilty can you get?

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:00 am

by bigsteve

Well a delima for sure but a 140 to 150 " 8 pt is a bigun believe me most hunters have never seen a 140" deer much less had a chance to harvest one and judging age for someone who has never killed a big buck is almost impossible we want our children to have a chance to kill a good buck sometimes we set our goals far higher than our expectations and it isn't the end of the world more deer will come I'm sure the land owner will handle it properly I sure hope he isn't too harsh on the youth and give him negative memories on a successful harvest we are losing too many of our ranks . So please think about this and don't be too harsh comercialazation of our sport sometimes over rides good judgement have a Merry Christmas and good hunting

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:17 am

by terry08

I personally, could never end a friendship over a sport of any kind. I understand he gave his word. But sometimes we all make mistakes . As Steve stated, I don't think I would know a 140 or better if I saw one. All I would know was a big buck. And aging a deer on the hoof can be a challenge for a novice hunter. I agree that he should have at least told the owner that he had misjudged the animal. But never give up on friendship over such a minor thing.

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:54 am

by bigsteve

A few years ago I was invited by a friend to hunt a place north of tunica behind the levee a virtual whitetail haven they have strict management rules at that time I had not killed very many good bucks prob 120" at best my friend put me on a stand about an hour into the hunt I had 3 bucks chase a doe by one a nice 10 pt prob 130" they ran in a thicket the 10 pt was on the doe when they came out I shot the first deer that came out. The 10pt NO it was a small 7 pt prob a 11/2 year old what was I to do leave him lay or tell my friend what I had done we now laugh about the incident and many hunts later we are still friends he is the one who gave me an education on how to field judge animals and it still is hard at times a better approach might be to give positive critizem other than negative terry is right don't ruin a friend ship over something so very minor we get caught up in the horn porn I have taken some really big bucks but the ones I cherish the most are the ones taken by youth hunters these deer were taken where strict management is in place and big deer still roam the smile on their face far over powers a 200" bc buck and is just as important in my book

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:19 am

by terry08

So true Steve, there will always be deer, but true friends are hard to come by.

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:26 am

by gtk

It's hard to say, not knowing the people or how they usually are. Mistakes happen, but how you handle those mistakes tell a lot about who you really are

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:28 pm

by jv

I agree with Terry and gtk, true friends are hard to come by and small mistakes and misunderstandings causes a lot of broken friendships but all can be avoided if they just would talk about the mistakes

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:18 pm

by glenn

I spent a lot of years hunting in clubs that had strict rules and saw several good friendships end over someone killing a deer that did not meet the rules. I finally figured out that for me deer hunting is supposed to be fun. The tension I always felt between pulling the trigger and the time I actually laid my hands on the deer wondering if he was as good as I thought was no fun. No, we don't kill many really good deer, most are 110 to 130, but every year we have at least one person, usually a kid, or adult that's trying to get into deer hunting, that will experience as much thrill from doe or barely legal buck as an experienced hunter does killing a big one. We then try to encourage them to get progressively more selective.

My very long winded point is a trophy is relative. When your best ever is a 100" deer, a 115" is a trophy. To the guy that routinely kills 140's that same 115" deer is hard to understand why anyone would shoot one that small. With all that said, yes I believe you should hunt within the rules and if you can't you should find a place that you can but friends are hard to come by.

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:58 pm

by Double Gobble

I'm not going to post specifics of everything here, but I sent big Steve a pm and hope he will put his revised thoughts on my original post in this thread

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:12 pm

by Bullie

People can put way too much value on a deer. It sure is causing some deep questions in this case.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:16 pm

by Double Gobble

It's not the value of the deer Bullie. It's the moral character of people who shot the deer. I will send you the same pm I sent Steve and Terry and you can decide for yourself.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:20 pm

by terry08

Double Gobble, I responded to the pm. I hope it works out for all involved.

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:46 pm

by bigsteve

Well you know there is a lot of greed in the whitetail world today and I really don't know the answer you might be looking for we all have morals to live by as I stated before I am sure the land owner has his way to handle this situation but that is his choice what I was saying this young hunter needs every opportunity for positive things to happen if loosing his hunting privilege for not obeying the rules then that also-can be a positive thing might change his outlook on the whole situation myself I think there is too much emphasis put on a set of horns and not on why we hunt for the last few years I chased the almighty rack having taken some big racked bucks 2 bc eligible and several more close I realized they are no different than a 120" buck that I had fun and fellowship harvesting a deer isn't worth loosing a friend over if he was a friend in the first place I hope for all involved every thing works out for y'all this is the reason I hunt public land wait till you are run out of a lease for killing big deer that you managed for 10+ years this is what the management system has done to white tail hunting hope it all works out

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:51 pm

by USAFdeerhunter

Well Said Steve. Hopefully something positive can come from this for all involved even if it's learning a lesson for some.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:06 pm

by jv

I have to agree with bigsteve, no deer is worth the lost of a good friend. I have never taken the killing of a big racked deer to the extreme of talking bad about a hunter taking a good deer thst might be better next year....there are to many things that could go wrong. I hunt for the food and enjoyment of the sport and the enjoyment of hunting with friends puts icing on the cake. Now as for deer management for huge deer I have mixed feeling. We have had a place that we have leased for more than 40 years I know and have been on a big buck program for the last 18 years, well this year at the bidding we had computation for a nother club that joins us and we almost lost it. We were paying $3400 for this land per year and we had to dig a little deeper and ended up paying $11,000 a year now and I believe it to be because we produced some good deer off this land and the other club knew it and wanted it.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:16 pm

by Double Gobble

I agree with what you said about greed big Steve, but you didn't address the pm I sent you at all.

Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:32 pm

by bigsteve

Jv I agree if you want to loose your lease kill a couple 160"+ bucks and there is someone out there that has the money and the resources to take your lease no matter how long you have had it .and this is what management has done to our sport it has taken the fellowship out of our sport it has made us greedy and self centered as I have stated I have hunted mature deer for many years with a bow never once have I been guilty of saying to another hunter you should have let him grow another year if he is legal. Congratulate him or her don't make it a negative .thing I believe hunt as you wish not as I wish I have heard the same ridicule from gun hunters v/s bow hunters v/s crossbow hunters and then dog hunters no one likes them but by law all have the right to hunt as they choose and kill what they wish I just hope it doesn't get like it did in Europe where the wealthy are the only ones that can hunt

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:43 pm

by bigsteve

Double gobble I answered your pm I still think the final decision is the land owners I wouldn't get all worked up over this it's really not that big of a deal and you may or may not like the outcome just don't fall victim of something you had no control of

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Re: Do you have a moral upbringing?

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:12 pm

by Double Gobble

We disagree. I'll leave it at that. I do respect you're opinion though.