I can hear it already: Tom, Tom Tom. How can you love such a half-assed car?! GM totally missed the mark with the downsized E-bodies. It was a bridge too far–or too small as the case may be. Okay, okay–Uncle! I will nod my head and agree with you. Yes, yes, these cars were not well-received, and particularly in Eldorado form with the half-baked 4.1L “Digital Fuel Injection” V8, was a big ol’ lemon. But I still can’t help but like these cars.

Perhaps it’s because they debuted right around the time I started noticing specific model years of cars. Perhaps it’s because I grew up with Volvo 240s and these cars seemed exotic and so different. Or maybe because I have a soft spot for cars that stumbled in the marketplace–I love Studebakers too!

Now, although this post is about how I like the shrunken Toronados, I also must point out that I am a big fan of the 1979-85 Toro. As a matter of fact, it is my favorite of the three flavors of E-body in those days, despite the Riviera and Eldorado being more expensive. This medium red ’85 Toro Brougham would look great in my garage, if there wasn’t currently a Town Car occupying it…

But I digress. One thing we all can agree on–the 1986-89 Toronado was a very different car from Broughamier 1971-85 predecessors.

And yet, there was a lot of 1966 Toronado in the new 1986s. In 1966, the Eldorado, not yet a front-wheel drive personal luxury coupe, was a flossy über convertible, while the Riviera and Toronado were sporty personal-lux coupes. The whole crushed-velour, opera-windowed, coach-lamped isolation chamber versions of both E-bodies would come along several years later.

With the 1986 models, that sporty, well-handling idiom came back, instead of the boulevard ride and road isolation of the “wedding cake” Eldos, Rivs and Toros of 1971-78. It was the ’80s after all, and Brougham was really on the way out. Time to face facts, folks–even if the Midwest didn’t really lose their Brougham love until the early ’90s. Indeed some (like me) never did. But once again, I digress…

The 1986 Toronado was all about efficiency, comfort and good handling characteristics. The new top-of-the-line model, the Troféo, emphasized this point dramatically. This was a luxury Oldsmobile? Well, yes and no. It was sporty and luxurious–if, that is, superficial buyers could get past the “Ooh, it’s a tarted-up Calais” schtick.

Okay, it looks like a Calais? Well, vaunted Mercedes-Benz did the same thing! Take, for instance the 190E. It was a plebian, if well-engineered car, but in its home country you had them everywhere as buzzy little taxis. Hardly luxurious. Hardly plush. Hardly fast.

Then, at the top of the M-B food chain was the W126. While a much larger and more luxurious car (and beautiful, I won’t dispute that), and with a price tag to match–it looked JUST like the el-cheapo 190 for gosh sakes! Even the wheels were the same. The grille, taillights, side creases, and even the roofline were all very similar if not identical. Just like the Toronado. One was clearly bigger and more luxurious, but with more than a passing resemblance–just like the Toronado. One had more gadgets and a longer wheelbase–just like the Toronado. Yet the Toronado gets blasted from here to Kansas City and back and the Mercedeses get a pass? And hey, the Toro wasn’t fricking $60,000!

Let’s say someone blindfolded you, bundled you into the driver’s seat of a brand-new 1989 Troféo, slammed the door and told you to put the foot to the carpet–after removing the blindfold of course. I daresay you would enjoy the experience.

For instance: the well-regarded 3800 provided forward motivation, and by ’89 had 165 hp and a healthy 210 lb-ft of torque, as well as sequential-port fuel injection. As savvier folks know, torque is much more crucial to driving enjoyment than horsepower–a fact lost on today’s bread-and-butter sedans with 350 hp. And with Teves four-wheel anti-lock brakes, they stopped just as well as they went.

Inside was a real treat, with leather bucket seats that had power adjustment for the side bolsters, back contour and even lumbar support, a la Volvo.

Steering wheel-mounted radio controls were newly available. Returning to the standard equipment list were a leather-wrapped steering wheel, FE3 Touring Car Ride and Handling package, Twilight Sentinel and lacy-spoke 15-inch aluminum wheels. One thing NOT available was a manual transmission, but this gunmetal-gray ’89 Troféo has one–clearly a modification by its owner, who no doubt must love this car to do such a major change! And while the hood was not up, a “Supercharged” logo on the left side of the trunk lid suggested this had gotten a boosted Riviera or Park Avenue Ultra 3800 V6 transplant.

In addition to being the sportiest Toronado in years, the Troféo also had several 1966 cues on it, especially the full-width grille with hidden headlights. That and the full-width taillights are why the Toronado is my favorite of the three 1986 E bodies. The sporty styling wore much better on the downsized E’s flanks than the mini-Biarritzes and landau-roofed Rivieras of the time.

And like the Riviera, the Toronado received the Visual Information Center, or VIC. It was an impressive technological feat for GM at the time, but woe to the Toro, Eldo or Riv owner who had it conk out. Replacements were super expensive, and later simply unobtainable. Like many early adopters, the touch-screens used on these luxo coupes just weren’t perfected!

But the interior sure was swank, was it not? I love the interior on these–just a hint of the ’60s greatness here and there, yet modern and of course, comfortable.

1989 was the last year of the “truncated” Toro; for 1990 they would receive a longer rear deck (which the Riviera received a year earlier in 1989–CC here). I like those too, and actually have a choice example of that final Toronado in my archives, but seeing this mildly modified Troféo at the Classy Chassy cruise night in Coralville on May 30, I couldn’t help but do this one first! The five speed and early ’90s Cutlass Supreme alloys just look like they belong, and make for a pretty mean machine!

Were they GM’s finest hour? Likely not, but they were still pretty damn nice cars, VIC aside, and I really enjoyed seeing this survivor. I am sure its owner feels the same way! So here’s to you Troféo, at least two people in the United States love you!

It does have that Prelude/Soarer look to it, now that you mention it. It’s obviously bigger than a Prelude, although it’s actually kind of an interesting comparison with the 1986–1991 Toyota Soarer that we didn’t get here. The Soarer was a bit smaller (3.5 inches shorter and about that much narrower) and the 3.0GT version had the Supra Turbo engine, but the overall vibe is not dissimilar — down to the digital instruments and touchscreen controls!

I do like these cars a lot. Although if I had my pick, I’d take a 1990-1992 Trofeo. I like the more distinctive, elongated styling, and their monochromatic appearance. Although I do prefer the aircraft-style automatic shifter that was in 1986-1989 models.

In this featured car, it is hard to get past the Cutlass Calais resemblance though. Somehow, the 190E, even in stripper form, still carries a bit more status than compact GM coupe.

While we’re talking about the Toronado, I have to say that I do miss reasonably-priced personal luxury coupes. The only 2-doors you can really get today are compact sports coupes, muscle cars, and expensive luxury coupes. Even in those categories, choice is limited.

Another fan of the Trofeo here. This was probably the best looking Oldsmobile of the last couple decades of its life. Unfortunately, the market had left the brand by this point, and there was no way they were coming back except for possibly dropping the name completely.

In my years of blogging, I too am amused by the attitude of; “If Mercedes or Audi do it, it’s a prime example of European genius. If GM does it, it only shows how they really need to go bankrupt – yesterday.” I’ve long ago come to the conclusion that there’s a world of bloggers out there who’s existence is centered around hammering GM. Because they’re GM. And GM has absolutely no hope of doing anything right, so just die already.

In my book, the first generation Aurora wins the prize for the best looking Olds in the brand’s declining years. I saw one on the highway about a week ago, and it was remarkable how contemporary it still looks 20 years since they first hit the road.

I agree with you these were interesting cars which didn’t really appeal to many buyers. I remember Motor Trend did a rather skeptical comparison test between the Trofeo and a BMW 3-series.

There’s the “because GM” explanation, but there’s also a fascinating “What-If” possibility with these small E-bodies. With better execution and a more youthful interior they may have found success with younger buyers.

Yup, poor GM! The best cars in the world (bar none! ) kept out of the public ‘ s grasp due to a huge conspiracy!

I just got an email proving that people with poisoned, fluoridated water never buy GM cars. Ergo, GM will control 60% of our auto market as soon as we stop poisoning our children!

Having seen this proven on the internet many times and on my most reliable news source, Fox News, I’m 100% sure its the truth and all the old white guys my age agree with me. They all go to the same church as me, so we must be right!

I liked this generation of Toronado once Oldsmobile lengthened the car and made it look like a proper personal luxury coupe, as opposed to a slightly bigger Calais. If this car is one of the better-looking Oldsmobiles of the 1980s, it shows how far the mighty had fallen.

Unfortunately, by the time Oldsmobile released the revamped version, the damage had been done, and the target audience had moved on to the upscale European marques or the Acura Legend.

Count me in for the group that thought the tail stretch and other styling tweaks for ’90 really fixed this car. it was the truncated tail plus C-pillar shape/relation to trunk that was the problem, and fixing the chopped tail restored visual balance and differentation. And they still had the cool hidden lamps on the Trofeo.

I do like the manual conversion and the blown 3800 swap on this one though!

There is some of that, certainly, although it’s also true that GM shot itself in the foot (or occasionally the knee) a remarkable number of times over the years, often without seeming to learn the lesson at any kind of organizational level.

I will agree that there is an amazing tendency to laud the Germans for doing stuff for which U.S. (and occasionally Japanese) automakers were and are often mocked or lambasted. Also to give the Europeans — again, specifically the Germans — credit for innovations or ideas that U.S. (or Japanese) automakers had 20 or more years earlier.

I kind of like this one – or at least I did until I saw that gorgeous picture of the 66. 🙁

I certainly admire the guy willing to go to the trouble and expense to make his very one Trofeo stick shift. I have been on some forums where guys have done this with their Panther cars, but this Toro seems to need a stick so much more.

Horsepower is a measure of your top speed capability. Torque is how hard you work to get there. Simple enough? I’d much rather have 10 less horsepower and 20 more ft-pounds of torque, especially considering how many cars have speed limiters that merely mock the manufacturer’s horsepower advertising. That 300 hp V-6 Mustang? Speed limited to 118. 300 hp would get you 140-150 mph in Bonneville.

Cool find Tom – I have one comment to make about the following paragraph

“And like the Riviera, the Toronado received the Visual Information Center, or VIC. It was an impressive technological feat for GM at the time, but woe to the Toro, Eldo or Riv owner who had it conk out.”

I don’t think this system was available on the Eldorado?- i thought they are only one Trofeos, Toronados, Rivieras and Reattas?- what year were they offered on Eldorados?

They were never offered on the Eldorado. The monochrome first generation GCC(Graphic Control Center)was standard on the Riviera from 1986 to 1989, then dropped, in 1989 Oldsmobile offered the 2nd generation color VIC(Visual Information Center), they are significant differences from one to the other.

The Riviera had no “hard” keys, every page was selected by 6 touch pads around the main screen that, the selections included, climate, summary, radio, gauges, diagnostic and trip computer, each selection took you to a “page” that controlled each function, summary could display for example an minimum of selections for several functions, such as temp and fan speed, radio volume and station select and mpg. Summary would allow you to use the most used functions without going to the individual “page”. The GCC even had mild animation available, the fan speed indication actually “turned” faster or slower depending on the fan speed that was selected.

The GCC was part of the Rivieras on board diagnostic system, which allowed the service technician to use the GCC as a diagnostic tool for the car. For 1987, hard “button” keys replaced the soft touch selections around the screen.

The Oldsmobile VIC, in addition to adding color, took the most used functions and added them as buttons on the side of the screen, so there actual buttons for radio volume, hvac functions, etc. I was super enthralled by these touch screen cars when they came out, even with their underwhelming styling, the touch screen technology was so damn cool for 1986.

A friend’s mom had a Riviera. I was highly impressed with the GCC touchscreen. That is, until my friend started demonstating it. It was cumbersome and annoying in actual use.

Unfortunately, a lot of modern cars are the same way. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. Just like these Toronados, I predict a lot of new cars will be junked long before they are worn out due to their overly complex electronics.

Its both, a touchscreen and it has buttons for the most used features. One of the neat features was that your Toronado would call you, if it was equipped with the optional factory installed cellular phone, if it was being stolen.

These cars also had hands free calling when equipped with a cell phone, pretty advanced for its time.

Oldsmobile, as far as I know, was the only GM car that actually offered a “bitching betty” talking car option from 1985-1987 or so, it was optional on the 98 and Toronado as the “Voice Reminder”, I remember that one sort of sounded like Dan Rather with voice box.

Another interesting bit of trivia, Buick made 100 or so 1985 Rivieras with the GCC for testing, I don’t know what became of the cars.

Chris M

Posted July 11, 2014 at 11:01 AM

Wow. I never knew this existed! *Very* high-tech stuff for the late 80’s. And with all the complaints about today’s multifunction screen systems being hard to use, maybe this was no worse!

Common guys, torque without horsepower equals squat. Torque is the measure of the ability to do work. Horsepower is the rate at which that torque (work) can be put to use. What is generally a useless measure (as far as street driving is concerned) is peak horsepower. If your torque isn’t available from 1600 to 4600 rpm, an 8500 redline is fairly useless in the daily cut and thrust.

IMO you’re saying the same thing from a different angle. In an internal combustion engine, neither horsepower nor torque exist independently.

Mathematically, horsepower is proportional to (torque x RPM). There are two ways to build horsepower: increase torque or increase peak (redline) RPM.

Increasing torque generally builds more horsepower in the RPM range where you will use it most often in real-world driving, about 1600-4600 RPM as you said. The cam that gives you a nice fat torque curve is not the same cam that will give you the highest peak horsepower.

Saying an engine is “built for torque” is synonymous with saying an engine is built to maximize horsepower in the normal driving range.

You’re just trying to stir the pot, but it doesn’t change anything. The equation HP=tq x RPM / 5252 is exactly the same. What it does do is change the effective cam profile, so a VVT engine behaves like it has a mild cam at low RPM and a more radical cam at high RPM, providing the best of both.

It may not be new, but neither is today’s featured car, which I’m sure doesn’t have VVT. 😛 So Tom’s original statement “torque is much more crucial to driving enjoyment than horsepower” is certainly applicable to this Olds!

Canucknucklehead

Posted July 7, 2014 at 11:34 AM

In fact you are proving my point. VVT indeed flattens the torque curve. There is no longer the compromise of low end torque vs top end power. Fiat ‘ s Multi-Air and BMW’s VANOS systems give the ultimate flexibility

BigOldChryslers

Posted July 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM

You keep trying to find something to argue about, but I never disputed the benefits of VVT. It is a good and beneficial innovation.

My wife’s CR-V has Honda’s VTEC system, so I have personal experience with VVT (and adjusting all the valves). VTEC only switches between two cam profiles, not a continuous range, so you can actually feel the acceleration increase when it engages which is pretty neat.

The existence of VVT is not an argument that torque is somehow irrelevant now. It means that you can get a torque curve that is fatter across a wider RPM band than would be possible otherwise. So everybody wins.

These were simply too much of a departure for the intended buyers and from the strong selling ’79-’85 series, and they seem positively tiny alongside today’s tall and bulked up mainstream cars. I wonder if some of the “look-alike” criticism would have been tempered if these had been introduced before the N-body cars.

Apparently the economy of scale that is the Mercedes tradition is lost on you, Tom. MBs are ENGINEERED cars and don’t undergo radical transformations from model to model or year to year except in the underlying mechanuicals to IMPROVE the brand. Germans don’t waste time and money on worthless geegaws like a digital dash until it is perfected to world class level. Where is Mercedes today and where is Oldsmobile?
To be fair, I do prefer the Trefeo over its GM contemporaries, though. I never saw it as a tarted up Calais, more like a limited production Riv, IMHO.

That might have been true back in 1986, but MB today has added as many doo-dads and fadish features that would make a 50’s car blush, and not all of them have been added with trouble free results, the 1999 and up generation S-classes have developed a reputation of electrical problems galore.

+2. There was definitely a subdued quality to Mercedes back in 1986 but the reality is Mercedes Benz is at best average in quality and reliability not only in the luxury segment but in just about every segment today and MB knows it. There’s tons of gimmickry in a current Mercedes INCLUDING a digital dash!

+3
Couldn’t agree more.
Just look at seatbelt air bags for example.
Mercedes is at the top of the gimmick game along with Audi and BMW.
Also, back then, they were engineered to a standard but somewhere in the early 90s after the great W140, it became all about meeting the price point so they lost their quality.
This is not counting the rampant brand dilution they are undergoing by making cars like the CLA to compete in price points where a premium brand has no place. BMW and Audi are doing the same. Soon enough, having any of three won’t be a status symbol anymore.
I’m more impressed by someone in a Cadillac ATS now than in a 3 series, C-class or A4.

My mom’s previous car was an ML, and I was never blown away by the quality of the interior and the air conditioning (center vents) never worked right from the factory, something we later got resolved. Quite a bit of wind noise at highway speeds too. Not to mention the MBTex in a $50K+ car, which needed constant care to not look dirty.
The engine was probably the best part. That 3.5L could move lol.

Neat find, especially with the stick, but these never did much for me. Awkward proportions, droopy beltline, too-big wheel openings, too-long front overhang. The continuous taillights and hidden headlights have always struck me as after-the fact glue-ons, not as enhancements of an inherently strong concept. Whether one loves the original Toro or considers it a GM deadly sin, it was undeniably the outcome of a unique vision. The feature car was not, despite whatever good qualities it had. It indeed projects tarted-up Calais, while the original wasn’t a tarted-up anything.

I did get the late ’80s Oldsmobile thing right in my guess but never factored in that this car could have a non-OEM clutch!

I can clearly remember the first time I saw a Trofeu sitting in a now-defunct Cadillac/Oldsmobile showroom in the Spring of ’89. To my 20 year old eyes I was impressed and really thought the American’s were ‘keeping up’ with the Europeans, but now having seen Oldsmobile fold, I almost think their chances would have improved if they would have stayed more traditional American

Anyway, the Trofeo trim-level has aged very well and I think this shorter length iteration actually looks much better than the car produced through ’92. That VIC was perhaps a precursor to the touch-screens we see today in so many cars that control AC, System Functions, Audio system etc…no small feat on GM’s part?

Now IF I had to choose a favorite downsized E-body, it would be the 1991 Cadillac El Dorado Touring coupe, first choice would be Polo Green with Saddle interior, but this when-new photo below in black gives the idea of it’s appeal, to me at least…

These do look good in red too, heck, they really are lovely in EVERY shade!

It’s amazing how subtle cosmetic changes (tasteful body kit, rims, Euro-tail lamps, different seats) can give a car an entirely different slant. My parents bought a new El Dorado ‘Spring Edition’ in 1989, and while very nice at the time, it just seems world’s apart from the ETC.

I’m thinking your rims are off a ’92-onward El Dorado or Seville?

Saw your Toronado convertible below, never seen one before! Looking so much better than some of the downsized C Body convertibles. The beltline’s upsweep to the rear looks a natural with the top-down.

Once again, I am new to posting here but just need to say how happy I am to have found this site and the enthusiasm expressed. Being age 45 now and having been around quite a few ‘Broughamy’ cars when new in the 1980s-present, it gives a warm and fuzzy feeling to know others appreciate these types of cars today.

This is becoming my new ‘bookmark’ of choice…it was Bring-A-Trailer, but that place can be a little too Alfa-centric, hahahahah!

BB

Yanns Mohrtenssen

Posted July 7, 2014 at 4:06 PM

I will never understand why people replace their rims with newer models’! UGH. (Do they say “STS” on them?).
This is a BEAUTIFUL, wonderful car however!!!!

Not my favorite Toro, though I give GM credit for trying to reimagine their high-end personal luxury cars without scaring off the traditionalists. Unfortunately for Olds, they missed on both counts with this car. The rigid, formal roof simply couldn’t connote anything remotely sporty, though the lower body of this car was reasonably clean and modern. Inside, in spite of decent leather seats, GM insisted on really bad vinyl for the door trim which in no way resembled anything that ever came from a cow. The chintzy trim details combined with the old-school/high-tech mash-up of a dash, made the interior just as schizophrenic as the exterior.

I had a chuckle with the Benz comparison, and I actually find today’s “S-Class Mini-me” of a C-Class a really bad case of styling that is too close for comfort between the flagship and lesser cars. However, in Mercedes’s case (both in the 1980s and today), at least the S-Class came first so that the look was established at the high end. I don’t think GM would have been lambasted as much for the E-bodies if they had come a year before the N-bodies instead of a year after.

In 1998 got one in perfect condition with 20K. Never a problem. Got convertible in 2005 and now getting around to giving it a make over…and sine there only 2 know left (at least found on the internet,and coach builders said they only made 8 from 88-91) I just HAD to add the VIC system. Got it started and most of it is working.
Will have it done this winter. New Navy metallic paint, Gray fabric top and Gray/ Navy interior (all done just need to be installed)
Own all the E bodies- 89 STS, 90 ETC,90 Reatta Convertible, 89 Riviera. All perfect, the Trofeo Convertible is the last one to finish.

These were an example of having the right ingredients, but still baking a shitty cake. They probably should have been left in the oven another 30 minutes. I think that the Toronados styling took the downsizing best, probably because it ditched as many traditional styling cues as possible and brought back a few from the 1960’s, like the full width tailight(I know the 66 didn’t have one, but it sort of was close) and the hidden headlights.

I also thought that it was interesting that Oldsmobile kept the Toronados unique door key position ahead of the door handle, like on the 1979-1985 Toronados, the Oldsmobile E-body was the only E that had this sort of odd door key position. I imagine that all of these E-bodies would have been better received if the 1989-1990 styling fixes/refreshes had actually come out as the original product.

Initial reaction to the downsized 1985 C-body cars was positive, Cadillac made sales gains with the downsized FWD DeVille, so I imagine that management thought that these were still on “the right track”, but they ended up as sales disasters that practically killed the personal luxury coupe market.

A friend of mine had an 80-81 with a diesel engine which I so admired. However, I doubt the car lasted very long. My friend was a little short on maintenance ability. I noted the dip stick was missing when I popped the hood to take a look at the engine. He was the type who traded-in his cars every 2 to 3 years.

I love it! The downsized Toronado is of the handful of 80s GMs I genuinely like inside and out and this one’s a 5 speed to boot! The only thing I’d change though would be the wheels, needs an 80s style basketweave/BBS style wheel in my humble opinion.

Lincoln/Mercury seemed to like the design too, the 89 MN12 Cougar ditched a lot of styling elements present in the 83-88s to seemingly bear more resemblance to the Troféo, most obviously the rear side windows changing from the controversial upsweep to the squared off look of the Toro.

The pre-86 E bodies were on a roll after recession ended in 1983, and were selling briskly. The downsizing was a shock to buyers expecting the older looks. Resale of the 85’s stayed high for a while too. [vauge memories]

I still have my 87 300SDL that I occasionally drive. It is in great shape inside and out, and I enjoyed it as a daily driver back in the day, but it signaled the downturn in quality for Mercedes. As for the Toronado; it was super junk.

Pretty sure you’re the only person I’ve ever heard complain that the W126 marked a downturn in quality for Benz…for me they were at the very top of their game in the 80’s. The more common complaint seems to be that the downturns started with the W220, W210, and W203 (to cover all three lines).

Isolated from its too similar GM cousins and the competitive environment of 1989, this isn’t such a bad car. Remove any exotic equipment for the price point, and this would have been one heck of a Cutlass Supreme.

Ironically for the Toro that started life as FWD, in 1989 it needed to be a RWD V-8 car (and bigger!) to be competitive, and differentiate it from the 1989 Cutlass Supreme, and Cutlass Ciera, and Cutlass Calais, and probably a few more Cutli I’m missing. Arguably the 88 as well – the coupe was still available.

Oldsmobile in 1989 with fewer and better differentiated cars. It would be interesting to see what an alternate history would have meant.

Did anybody else look at the link “Marauder” provided above? An incredible amount of work went into this car and I’m extremely impressed with it! It was not equipped with the VIC from the factory, the owner swapped it over – along with the entire interior, which was whorehouse maroon originally. All the grey haters can’t tell me that this is a downgrade; looks so much better. Plus bigger brakes (the reason for those wheels), mild suspension and engine tweaks… the factory ECM and diagnostic functions are all fully integrated into the touch screen/digital gauges and they even got the cruise control working with the 5-speed! Probably a million other little things beyond that, too – this is a super clean and stealthy car and I love it.

But I do have to take issue with some other things here…

For instance: the well-regarded 3800 provided forward motivation, and by ’89 had 165 hp and a healthy 210 lb-ft of torque, as well as sequential-port fuel injection. As savvier folks know, torque is much more crucial to driving enjoyment than horsepower–a fact lost on today’s bread-and-butter sedans with 350 hp.

Ugh, nonsense! Forget the textbook, academic relationship of horsepower to torque and forget that people generally don’t like their car’s engines to have the characteristics of a 600cc sports bike, because neither are really all that relevant to viewing torque vs. horsepower in this manner.

What’s being suggested here, and what’s always suggested, is that large amounts of torque available in the low-to-mid range can somehow offset a profound lack of horsepower, as if an engine somehow switches from “torque mode” to “horsepower mode” once you cross 3,500rpm or so. That’s totally bogus, and it’s even more bogus that super low torque peaks, or even large amounts of available torque alone make for a better driving experience.

The Toronado’s 3800 engine is lively and responsive precisely because it doesn’t fit that description. Its torque peak may be rated at a low 2,000rpm, but since peak horsepower comes on at 4,800 and we know that HP = (torque*RPM) / 5252, then it’s safe to say that it’s still producing 180lb-ft or so at that engine speed and probably makes north of that through most of its operating range. That’s a very flat torque curve with a (relatively) high horsepower peak, not a low revving torque monster.

The Series II 3800 had a torque peak of 4,000rpm, and a horsepower peak of 5,200rpm… so was it less torquey and less pleasant to drive because of it? Of course not. But take, for instance, a real low-revving, “torquey” engine like the old carbed Buick V6, which nearly matched the 3800 Series I’s torque output with a figure of 190lb-ft @ 1600. It’s a lower peak with nearly the same amount of power, so it should be even torquier at low RPMs, and thus more pleasant to drive, right? Hell no! Those engines were total dogs; even in much lighter cars like the H-bodies they wouldn’t have felt as potent as a 3800-powered Toronado.

And since torque can be multiplied through gearing, it’s also totally incorrect to say that modern engines with higher horsepower and torque peaks are somehow lacking power at low engine speeds. Here’s what the (stock) Toronado puts down to the wheels in 1st gear:

I’m assuming the BMW starts out in 2nd gear normally (1st is a 4.71:1 ratio). Its maximum torque peak is actually higher than 258lb-ft, and probably occurs much closer to the high end of that range since it’s horsepower peak is north of 6,000rpm, but the cool thing to do nowadays is give a maximum “within range” figure, which actually makes more sense than peak figures alone. So even discounting the BMW’s 400lb. weight disadvantage, it’s teeny weeny little 2.0l four cylinder will feel way torquier than the “big” Olds V6. Same goes for even peakier engines that don’t have such a flat torque curve – there’s just so much more multiplication available in the gears with newer transmissions. If a 350HP engine in a modern sedan feels like it’s lacking the bottom end punch of a 1989 Oldsmobile, it’s an illusion.

I’m not even gonna touch the Mercedes part, but suffice to say that if I were a car, I’d much rather be mistaken for a 190E than a Cutlass Calais!

Id like to know what transaxle he’s using. To my knowledge, GM never offered ANY manuals on the 3800 engine, and certainly not with the supercharger. The only possibility I know of is he snagged it from a G6 GTP which amazingly actually DID offer a 6 spd. I know GM used a lot of Getrags and they’re tough (G288 in my turbo PT cruiser was a stout fwd piece) but I believe they were all on the smaller compacts.

I have some mixed feelings on these cars. They look better than the earlier and later versions, I actually love the full horizontal billet look on the hidden lights, nice nod to the original. Of course its a 2-door so immediate points for that. But from the side, the look just falls apart. That soggy looking beltline is just awful. While Im not totally opposed to the formal roofline, that kills the image, and image is EVERYTHING in a car that is pushing style as a major selling point. Theres just a bit of stodginess here where the competition (BMW 3 series) was looking pretty damn tight. A better comparisoin would’ve been the T-bird/Cougar as well as the Chrysler LeBaron and any of those looks at least as good. AND had a lot better drivetrain. V6/fwd layouts are fine for family sedans and minivans but just don’t say ‘drivers car’…especially not with a mandatory slushbox.

I do remember seeing a lot of these when I was in high school though. This was in West TN, which is very GM-heavy. They tended to be driven by women 45-55 and sometimes they had that whole ‘Stiffler’s Mom’ or ‘trophy ex-wife’ thing going on. In those days I worked at a grocery store and hoped to take out a load for an attractive cougar! A little flirtation usually meant a decent tip, even for a rough around the edges gearhead type….

I drove one 1989 Toronado from 180Kmls to 330Kmls. This car was quiet, secure and fast, faster than 165hp would let you expect. Front axle held up, even to lots of potholes on greater Tri State area highways. Compared to my 1993 VW Passat VR6 the Olds was pure gold. The Passat needed repair, the Toro would run.
I purchased another 1989 Toro now with wayyy less miles on the odometer. This car is unique, it is very rare, of decent build quality except the paint and got a lot of goodies from the factory like German Teves anti lock brake system, bolts and screws all metric (!), stainless steel exhaust, hurst racing like middle shift handle, Corvette rear axle with it’s famous carbon leaf spring from left to right, automatic leveling control and much more.
Get one while you can, prices going up already.
Regards
Mike
living in Germany