(2016-10-19 17:08:18)Tebbe Wrote: They made a level to be part of the game not the campaign, if the creator doesn't want it in the campaign for whatever reason forcing them is ridiculously stupid.

Putting the level in campaign does not force the creator to do anything. It literally makes no difference to that person if he chooses to ignore it. If you do have something against your level being played by others then do not publish it.

There are many reasons you wouldn't want your level in the campaign, you might still have some work left to do or you might simply think your level isn't fit for the campaign.

If it is unfinished, then it probably shouldn't be considered anyway. If you just don't think it's a good choice, so what? I might think loads of others aren't good fits for campaign, should I be able to veto those? Why does the level being mine mean anything?

(2016-10-19 18:10:15)Suuper Wrote: Putting the level in campaign does not force the creator to do anything. It literally makes no difference to that person if he chooses to ignore it. If you do have something against your level being played by others then do not publish it.

There are many reasons you wouldn't want your level in the campaign, you might still have some work left to do or you might simply think your level isn't fit for the campaign.

If it is unfinished, then it probably shouldn't be considered anyway. If you just don't think it's a good choice, so what? I might think loads of others aren't good fits for campaign, should I be able to veto those? Why does the level being mine mean anything?

You might feel bad about having a crap level in the campaign, an unfinished level could still be good enough for the campaign and adding it before the author think it's done doesn't make sense.

Giving the level creator veto power is in no way compareable to giving random individuals veto power.

The fact that it's in campaign is in no way dependant on the player, there's no need to feel bad that other people decided on a less than ideal level. If you're just embarrassed to have made the level, why is it published?

The level maker has no right to arbitrarily restrict the use of his level which he willingly published to be a part of the game. "Feeling bad about it" does not grant this right.

(2016-10-20 15:24:54)Suuper Wrote: The fact that it's in campaign is in no way dependant on the player, there's no need to feel bad that other people decided on a less than ideal level. If you're just embarrassed to have made the level, why is it published?

The level maker has no right to arbitrarily restrict the use of his level which he willingly published to be a part of the game. "Feeling bad about it" does not grant this right.

so don't publish any level that you don't find fitting for the campaign, got it

by having the level in the campaign everyone is forced to play it if they want all the prizes from the campaign, no one is publishing levels so that people should feel forced to beat them in a fast time. how can you not see that there's a difference by allowing people to play your level if they want to and forcing them to play it if they want to compleate the campaign?

In the end the creator has veto power either way, the only difference is that you're not forcing him to delete the level if you allow him to choose not to have it in the campaign in the first place.

Yes there's a difference, but that difference is not relevant to the creator. The creator is not forcing anyone to play his level in order to get prizes, whoever chose the level is. Neither does the creator choose the required times.

Your level being in campaign despite not being a good choice reflects nothing about you and should not concern you. And the level maker has no right to arbitrarily restrict the use of his level which he willingly published to be a part of the game anyway.

(2016-10-20 15:59:01)Suuper Wrote: Yes there's a difference, but that difference is not relevant to the creator. The creator is not forcing anyone to play his level in order to get prizes, whoever chose the level is. Neither does the creator choose the required times.

Your level being in campaign despite not being a good choice reflects nothing about you and should not concern you. And the level maker has no right to arbitrarily restrict the use of his level which he willingly published to be a part of the game anyway.

Let me guess, you're a communist.

Taking away the creators right to veto the use of his level for things he do not agree it be used for is not gonna end up with more good creative levels, all it will accomplish is making people more reluctant to create levels.

No, I have no problem with people owning things. But level creators have already given the level to the game. If you're afraid of what people will do with/on your level don't play a creative game like PR3...the whole idea of creating your own levels is so that other people can play them.

(2016-10-20 21:25:46)Cade642 Wrote: Suppose a person's level gets in the campaign and they update it. Will the update register right away or will the level be stuck like it was when put into the campaign?

Currently you can edit your level and the changes comes to place instantly (if it gets abused I'm going restrict it), BUT you cannot delete your level.

(2016-10-20 21:25:46)Cade642 Wrote: Suppose a person's level gets in the campaign and they update it. Will the update register right away or will the level be stuck like it was when put into the campaign?

Currently you can edit your level and the changes comes to place instantly (if it gets abused I'm going restrict it), BUT you cannot delete your level.

This is good for polishing art and whatnot or even making new blocks, however I don't think people should be changing the gameplay drastically or adding new sections once the medals are brought in.

(2016-10-20 18:11:16)Suuper Wrote: No, I have no problem with people owning things. But level creators have already given the level to the game. If you're afraid of what people will do with/on your level don't play a creative game like PR3...the whole idea of creating your own levels is so that other people can play them.

Treat the level creators with respect and don't add their levels in the campaign if they don't want it there. The level wouldn't exist without them, why do you want to exploit them and make them less eager to create more and better levels?

Lets say someone makes a bland level which gets added to the campaign against their wishes. Now a few months later the same person makes an amazing level which said person would love to have in the campaign. The problem is that the contest manager rejects this new great level on the basis that the user already has a campaign level.

(2016-10-20 18:11:16)Suuper Wrote: No, I have no problem with people owning things. But level creators have already given the level to the game. If you're afraid of what people will do with/on your level don't play a creative game like PR3...the whole idea of creating your own levels is so that other people can play them.

Treat the level creators with respect and don't add their levels in the campaign if they don't want it there. The level wouldn't exist without them, why do you want to exploit them and make them less eager to create more and better levels? Lets say someone makes a bland level which gets added to the campaign against their wishes. Now a few months later the same person makes an amazing level which said person would love to have in the campaign. The problem is that the contest manager rejects this new great level on the basis that the user already has a campaign level.

Whats the problem over here? I don't see really reason why people wouldn't want their level to be in campaign. Shouldn't the level owner be happy as it is passed to campaign?

(2016-10-20 18:11:16)Suuper Wrote: No, I have no problem with people owning things. But level creators have already given the level to the game. If you're afraid of what people will do with/on your level don't play a creative game like PR3...the whole idea of creating your own levels is so that other people can play them.

Treat the level creators with respect and don't add their levels in the campaign if they don't want it there. The level wouldn't exist without them, why do you want to exploit them and make them less eager to create more and better levels? Lets say someone makes a bland level which gets added to the campaign against their wishes. Now a few months later the same person makes an amazing level which said person would love to have in the campaign. The problem is that the contest manager rejects this new great level on the basis that the user already has a campaign level.

Whats the problem over here? I don't see really reason why people wouldn't want their level to be in campaign. Shouldn't the level owner be happy as it is passed to campaign?

I just gave you a reason in the post you quoted...

It's just hypothetical anyway, if the creator is against their level becoming a campaign level it shouldn't be added against their will as suuper is sugesting.

(2016-10-21 16:28:06)Tebbe Wrote: Lets say someone makes a bland level which gets added to the campaign against their wishes. Now a few months later the same person makes an amazing level which said person would love to have in the campaign. The problem is that the contest manager rejects this new great level on the basis that the user already has a campaign level.

I would argue that rejecting a level based on the fact that one of the creator's levels happens to already be in campaign is a bad idea, at least if the new one is, as in your example, significantly different. (e.g. not a remake and doesn't have the same feel)

Rules There will be 8 newly selected levels for campaign unless Isokissa3 decides otherwise, so there will be two phases: Phase 1 and Phase 2. Each Phase will introduce 4 new levels to the campaign. The level must be a traditional race nomination. I hope this is self explanatory. The level must be a finished submission. Updating your level before the deadline is acceptable however! The level must be over the length of a minute on a normal run. This helps eliminate troll nominations. The level must not rely on item luck. Each individual item box must have one item set to them. The level must not be a tutorial. We already have a tutorial level for newcomers! The level must not have any controversial or inappropriate content within the level. The level must be submitted before the 25th of October 2016 for the First Phase. All levels submitted afterward are considered for Phase 2.

Somewhere in the middle of this thread, there was also mentioned that it could be of any difficulty; While the rules dictate that it must be a "traditional race" and "atleast a minute" with no reliance on "item luck", can it consist of a maze/dungeon of experience-based difficulty mingled with skill, whereupon it's easy to fall back at high-risk areas (as an opening to the map, not as the entire map), what qualifies as a traditional race, since you left it vague and you seem to reject based on that notion, giving no indication of what one can do to improve or fit that criteria, can it be significantly over a minute in length, such as spanning 5 minutes easily, unless done flawlessly, and, while it can't have "item luck", can it have "hazard luck" which i seem to be the pioneer of. Also, I hope "hazard luck" is as self-explanatory as you seem to think the term "traditional race" is.

~Yours Truly, The master of pr3 entropy.

P.S. What is the openness to suggestions pertaining to the rewards of the contest (as well as the actual rewards), as I seem to vaguely recall an exp reward for Ilraon's earlier contest, but then again, I might be mistaken. P.S.S. Luck refers to time and place rather than the contents in regards to "hazard luck". Additionally, it is fixed, rather than merely a hurt move block on random.

(2016-10-22 10:59:37)Tebbeinator Wrote: Somewhere in the middle of this thread, there was also mentioned that it could be of any difficulty; While the rules dictate that it must be a "traditional race" and "atleast a minute" with no reliance on "item luck", can it consist of a maze/dungeon of experience-based difficulty mingled with skill, whereupon it's easy to fall back at high-risk areas (as an opening to the map, not as the entire map), what qualifies as a traditional race, since you left it vague and you seem to reject based on that notion, giving no indication of what one can do to improve or fit that criteria, can it be significantly over a minute in length, such as spanning 5 minutes easily, unless done flawlessly, and, while it can't have "item luck", can it have "hazard luck" which i seem to be the pioneer of. Also, I hope "hazard luck" is as self-explanatory as you seem to think the term "traditional race" is.

~Yours Truly, The master of pr3 entropy.

P.S. What is the openness to suggestions pertaining to the rewards of the contest (as well as the actual rewards), as I seem to vaguely recall an exp reward for Ilraon's earlier contest, but then again, I might be mistaken. P.S.S. Luck refers to time and place rather than the contents in regards to "hazard luck". Additionally, it is fixed, rather than merely a hurt move block on random.

This is an good point. The rule that level must be a "traditional race" means that it would not be normally placed under another category of level. For example lots of people like to make trap levels. The level also cannot be a 'frust'. So having a maze element is fine, however I would discourage having sections which send you backwards in the level for failing. This is the main idea of a frust level and can be quite annoying when racing or speedrunning. So it need not be a traditional level in terms of style or feel, but should be friendly towards single-player racing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hazard luck". If you mean sections where true luck is a part of the course, then that should be avoided. (true luck should be impossible, but sadly it is not because of the variable frame rate on PR3 and related bugs) If you just mean moving blocks or change blocks those are generally fine, since they move and change the same way every time you play.

(2016-10-22 10:59:37)Tebbeinator Wrote: Somewhere in the middle of this thread, there was also mentioned that it could be of any difficulty; While the rules dictate that it must be a "traditional race" and "atleast a minute" with no reliance on "item luck", can it consist of a maze/dungeon of experience-based difficulty mingled with skill, whereupon it's easy to fall back at high-risk areas (as an opening to the map, not as the entire map), what qualifies as a traditional race, since you left it vague and you seem to reject based on that notion, giving no indication of what one can do to improve or fit that criteria, can it be significantly over a minute in length, such as spanning 5 minutes easily, unless done flawlessly, and, while it can't have "item luck", can it have "hazard luck" which i seem to be the pioneer of. Also, I hope "hazard luck" is as self-explanatory as you seem to think the term "traditional race" is.

~Yours Truly, The master of pr3 entropy.

P.S. What is the openness to suggestions pertaining to the rewards of the contest (as well as the actual rewards), as I seem to vaguely recall an exp reward for Ilraon's earlier contest, but then again, I might be mistaken. P.S.S. Luck refers to time and place rather than the contents in regards to "hazard luck". Additionally, it is fixed, rather than merely a hurt move block on random.

This is an good point. The rule that level must be a "traditional race" means that it would not be normally placed under another category of level. For example lots of people like to make trap levels. The level also cannot be a 'frust'. So having a maze element is fine, however I would discourage having sections which send you backwards in the level for failing. This is the main idea of a frust level and can be quite annoying when racing or speedrunning. So it need not be a traditional level in terms of style or feel, but should be friendly towards single-player racing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hazard luck". If you mean sections where true luck is a part of the course, then that should be avoided. (true luck should be impossible, but sadly it is not because of the variable frame rate on PR3 and related bugs) If you just mean moving blocks or change blocks those are generally fine, since they move and change the same way every time you play.

Are you an authority-holding figure, or is this of your opinion and discretion alone?

(2016-10-22 10:59:37)Tebbeinator Wrote: Somewhere in the middle of this thread, there was also mentioned that it could be of any difficulty; While the rules dictate that it must be a "traditional race" and "atleast a minute" with no reliance on "item luck", can it consist of a maze/dungeon of experience-based difficulty mingled with skill, whereupon it's easy to fall back at high-risk areas (as an opening to the map, not as the entire map), what qualifies as a traditional race, since you left it vague and you seem to reject based on that notion, giving no indication of what one can do to improve or fit that criteria, can it be significantly over a minute in length, such as spanning 5 minutes easily, unless done flawlessly, and, while it can't have "item luck", can it have "hazard luck" which i seem to be the pioneer of. Also, I hope "hazard luck" is as self-explanatory as you seem to think the term "traditional race" is.

~Yours Truly, The master of pr3 entropy.

P.S. What is the openness to suggestions pertaining to the rewards of the contest (as well as the actual rewards), as I seem to vaguely recall an exp reward for Ilraon's earlier contest, but then again, I might be mistaken. P.S.S. Luck refers to time and place rather than the contents in regards to "hazard luck". Additionally, it is fixed, rather than merely a hurt move block on random.

This is an good point. The rule that level must be a "traditional race" means that it would not be normally placed under another category of level. For example lots of people like to make trap levels. The level also cannot be a 'frust'. So having a maze element is fine, however I would discourage having sections which send you backwards in the level for failing. This is the main idea of a frust level and can be quite annoying when racing or speedrunning. So it need not be a traditional level in terms of style or feel, but should be friendly towards single-player racing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hazard luck". If you mean sections where true luck is a part of the course, then that should be avoided. (true luck should be impossible, but sadly it is not because of the variable frame rate on PR3 and related bugs) If you just mean moving blocks or change blocks those are generally fine, since they move and change the same way every time you play.

Are you an authority-holding figure, or is this of your opinion and discretion alone?