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Nice discussion. Just wait until we actually have more of the real story to discuss, lol.That is Genji leaving out all the important bits, lol. I just come back to the necessity of trying to see a narrative from another time in the context of its own time. If you don't, then it is impossible to see the characters as anything other than caricatures. You just can't understand them or their stories. I think they and their stories are worth knowing and taking seriously on their own terms.

Yeah, I didn't argue that. But the crux of the Genji story is that he's basically a manwhore of utmost political status and of his own personal moral barometer. The story of politico-romantic morality surrounding him is the meat of the story no doubt.

Also, Japan was and still is very much a misogynistic society in many ways. Same can be said for most cultures that has ever existed. And of course, when the idea of ancient celebrities and politicians are concerned, they obviously have way more power than the typical peon of the times. It's still the same today, isn't it? The politicians and those in power have call-girl issues, athletes swap women on a daily basis, etc. While most of everyday people either don't even have a consistent sexual life and even less swap partners as easily as the high level socialites of society.

All that said, I would argue that humanity, even in modern society has NEVER achieved social equality between genders. Females are still marginalized a bit in some aspects. It keeps getting better at least in America, but the ideal is still ways to go. Not that it's some problem that can be easily solved, because of the deep rooted social norms we have.

More great discussion, and many of the points made against mine I have to admit are just as reasonable, and certainly well-informed. I just hope people can enjoy the show.

And now we have a second episode, and I think I'm sold. I now realize more clearly that this is a complete retelling of the story, and not really an adaptation of the novel. So many scenes are added and changed, but so far they seem to me to clarify some of the relationships.

Spoiler for ep2:

Sugita Tomokazu and the script are making To no Chujo more real to me, with foreshadowing of his later strength. I felt even more sorry for Lady Aoi. And actually showing the meeting between Genji and Lady Rokujo worked for me. So did the way they represented his welcomed coercion. But I'm not making that argument right now, just enjoying the characters.

The beauty of the look is still working for me. So is the beauty of the music. I even started enjoying the OP, realizing it had some depth to it, despite the oddness of the match with this show. I checked who wrote it: Shiina Ringo (YouTube), the outstanding pop/jazz writer/performer. Naruhodo. And I found myself liking the ED even more.

One indication of my enjoyment: I was surprised when we came to the end of the episode. I had no idea we were that far along.

More great discussion, and many of the points made against mine I have to admit are just as reasonable, and certainly well-informed. I just hope people can enjoy the show.

And now we have a second episode, and I think I'm sold. I now realize more clearly that this is a complete retelling of the story, and not really an adaptation of the novel. So many scenes are added and changed, but so far they seem to me to clarify some of the relationships.

Spoiler for ep2:

Sugita Tomokazu and the script are making To no Chujo more real to me, with foreshadowing of his later strength. I felt even more sorry for Lady Aoi. And actually showing the meeting between Genji and Lady Rokujo worked for me. So did the way they represented his welcomed coercion. But I'm not making that argument right now, just enjoying the characters.

The beauty of the look is still working for me. So is the beauty of the music. I even started enjoying the OP, realizing it had some depth to it, despite the oddness of the match with this show. I checked who wrote it: Shiina Ringo (YouTube), the outstanding pop/jazz writer/performer. Naruhodo. And I found myself liking the ED even more.

One indication of my enjoyment: I was surprised when we came to the end of the episode. I had no idea we were that far along.

Watched the raws without waiting for subs, so much of the finer points of dialogue escaped me. However:

Spoiler for Thoughts on episode 2:

I wonder how old Genji is at this point? He was 12 when he was married to the daughter of his benefactor, who was sixteen at the time. I'm undecided about how Aoi feels towards Genji at this point; does she dislike him? Is she playing hard to get? Is she a tsundere?

So this means Aoi is 1 year younger than Fujitsubou, and 2 years younger that Rokujou.

It appears as if the focus of this episode, the learned and prideful Lady Rokujou, has dangerously underestimated Genji and has let him get inside her head after their initial meeting. Putting in layman's terms: If someone made a dating game out of Tales of Genji, the Rokujou route seems like it would be one of the shorter ones, even though it appears hard to attain at first.

Hmmm... a Tales of Genji dating game. I'm sure someone has published one before.

I didn't really get this ep. (Think I was watching it too early in the morning. ._.) I still like how it looks, but unfortunately I haven't reached enlightenment over liking the OP either. XD Ah well. Nonetheless, if you're after some screenshots of the ep...

If that is what the anime is conveying, then it isn't working. Genji was not seen as a terrible person by the author. He slept around, but that was not a great sin for an aristocrat of that time. And the author really never expresses any criticism of him in the novel, that I can recall.

Spoiler for ep2 Genji, his age, Aoi, etc.:

His bursting in on Lady Rokujo was supposed to be under the sway of his passionate love of beauty of all kinds: visual, literary, personal. And her passion for him was at least as great as his for her. One of the hallmarks of the aristocracy in Heian Japan was their highly developed aesthetic sense and love of beauty. I think the importance of beauty is a theme of the novel, too.

One thing I do wonder about is how they are showing Genji's age. I think he cannot be older than about 17 here, since he is supposed to meet Murasaki when he is 18 and she is 11, and his relationship with Lady Rokujo has been going for a long time by that point. But he looks older to me in the anime.

The anime says Aoi was cold to Genji because she expected to be the wife of an emperor, but her father, the Minister of the Left (almost like Prime Minister), decided it was better to marry her to Genji, whom his father loved so much, and who might become a power in the state in ways that an Emperor never could, since Emperors were controlled by their ministers. In those days, high aristocrats controlled the government by marrying their daughters to future emperors and becoming his top ministers.

I myself think Aoi was cold to Genji because he was so much younger than her, and neither much of a mate nor of a playmate, at first. Then she just got hardened in her initial attitude as he became a playboy, which he did in part because of her coolness. And so it goes. It was apparently perfectly normal for an aristocratic wife to continue living with her parents even after marriage. It was also normal for high-ranking men to have several wives, of varying degrees of status.

I also think we are seeing a real person in Aoi, powerless under the sway of her likes and dislikes and disappointments. Like the kind of low-level mental illness we all suffer from, to some extent. I guess I'm revealing that I think tsuntsun is a form of mental illness, lol. To see her happily using the comb later, however, just broke my heart. She would like to love him, but she doesn't know how.

Watching ep3, I thought how perfectly Yugao was being played. Then I saw in the end credits that she was being played by Koshimizu Ami. I had never heard Ami, who is one of my favorite and most respected seiyuus, do that voice before. A voice goddess, for sure. That last "sore kara" was amazing.

Why she doesn't seem to be thought of as one of the very top seiyuus is beyond me. She has a huge range, comic talent, and the ability to sell deep emotion. That last is the biggest thing for me. Hoping not to be insulting, I might say that she also proves my observation that the best actors are not necessarily the smartest people around. Ami is a lovely person, but does not appear to be a rocket scientist.

Spoiler for ep3:

Loved the way all the characters were played, with the possible exception of Genji, lol. There is a formality about the presentation that is working for me. The scene with Aoi was powerful. I did not like Rokujo's little evil laugh, because I think she did the deed unconsciously. But that is letting the source infect my enjoyment of the anime, and anyway the rest of the process worked for me.

Discussion here and on the excellent Iwa ni Hana blog has convinced me to revise my opinion of how Genji is being portrayed. I still think he is not a "bad person." But there is no doubt that his bee-among-the-flowers romantic self-indulgence has negative results throughout his life. Nowhere in the book is he exactly criticized for his follies, but the results of them are shown.

More gorgeous animation and backgrounds. Fireflies. Stars. Water flowing at night. This is not a perfect show, but I await it eagerly every week.

Are episodes 2 and 3 as dialogue intensive as episode 1 was? If so, I'll have to wait for the subs despite my desire to see the show. Watching episode 1 raw was little more than looking a moving art book for me. (I didn't even realize at the time that I was watching a flashback or that the child was Genji.) Unfortunately, I don't have the spare hard drive space to spend on moving art books at the moment.

I'm not sure "dialogue-heavy" coves it, but the story is being told so telegraphically that every scrap of info is necessary to understanding what is going on. And preferably intimate knowledge of the novel. A sub makes it at least somewhat easier to understand. I'm still struggling to be sure I can tell Fujitsubo from Rokujo from Aoi. But I'm loving every minute of my confusion.

It's kind of a shame - not least since I started the thread in the first place - but I kind of feel that the show is starting to slip away from me.

I really don't feel comfortable watching the raws, yet without subs in avi format (or online) I'm not able to keep up all that well (I've only seen the first ep, still)...

...to say nothing of the sense of disillusionment I've been steadily feeling build up the more the source material is being discussed.

(I wanted to make a point of not reading the novel before I watched this, so I could encounter the story from this perspective first - but I guess I can't help but get sucked in by spoilers and arguments over certain issues.)

Haha, I meant just this thread in particular. XD I found Genji somewhat hard to understand at times even with (admittedly, Chinese, which I'm a bit rusty at) subs -- was watching it late at night once and nothing went in at all. ._.

If that is what the anime is conveying, then it isn't working. Genji was not seen as a terrible person by the author. He slept around, but that was not a great sin for an aristocrat of that time. And the author really never expresses any criticism of him in the novel, that I can recall.

Spoiler for ep2 Genji, his age, Aoi, etc.:

His bursting in on Lady Rokujo was supposed to be under the sway of his passionate love of beauty of all kinds: visual, literary, personal. And her passion for him was at least as great as his for her. One of the hallmarks of the aristocracy in Heian Japan was their highly developed aesthetic sense and love of beauty. I think the importance of beauty is a theme of the novel, too.

One thing I do wonder about is how they are showing Genji's age. I think he cannot be older than about 17 here, since he is supposed to meet Murasaki when he is 18 and she is 11, and his relationship with Lady Rokujo has been going for a long time by that point. But he looks older to me in the anime.

The anime says Aoi was cold to Genji because she expected to be the wife of an emperor, but her father, the Minister of the Left (almost like Prime Minister), decided it was better to marry her to Genji, whom his father loved so much, and who might become a power in the state in ways that an Emperor never could, since Emperors were controlled by their ministers. In those days, high aristocrats controlled the government by marrying their daughters to future emperors and becoming his top ministers.

I myself think Aoi was cold to Genji because he was so much younger than her, and neither much of a mate nor of a playmate, at first. Then she just got hardened in her initial attitude as he became a playboy, which he did in part because of her coolness. And so it goes. It was apparently perfectly normal for an aristocratic wife to continue living with her parents even after marriage. It was also normal for high-ranking men to have several wives, of varying degrees of status.

I also think we are seeing a real person in Aoi, powerless under the sway of her likes and dislikes and disappointments. Like the kind of low-level mental illness we all suffer from, to some extent. I guess I'm revealing that I think tsuntsun is a form of mental illness, lol. To see her happily using the comb later, however, just broke my heart. She would like to love him, but she doesn't know how.

Well, my impression of Genji is based on some events from the novel that people mentioned in this thread. I don't think that anime portrays Genji in a very negative light. I'll form my final opinion after I read the novel myself.

Spoiler:

Thank you for the detailed description of the events

Yes, Genji does look older than 18 in anime.

Mental disorders cause clinically significant distress and impairment - I don't think tsuntsun would qualify, but I see what you mean.