From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 07:12:25 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021101100140.00aa1900@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Massonia/Polyxena
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:10:32 -0500
Mary Sue, I think you are right -- Polyxena cf. ensifolia was the consensus then. I did not change my labels at that time, so I will now. I'm definitely not comfortable with the whole Massonia/Polyxena mess yet. It would be nice to have a clear and definitive reference paper or book on these genera.
I have two Massonia jasminiflora about to bloom too. I'll try to get pictures of everything for the Bulbs_Images list.
Now a question that pertains to these for those who grow them or have seen them flowering in habitat, what do you consider the best species, overall, of this group? Maybe I ought to try trading a few of my Polyxena cf. ensifolia for some different types.
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 15:42:26 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Robin Attrill"
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:56:44 -0000
Mary Sue, Jim et al,
For a recent key to Polyxena see the excellent illustrated article by Terry Smale in the bulletin of the Alpine Garden Society, Vol 70, June 2002 pp 160-165. The article is specifically about P longituba but all species are covered and most illustrated.
With Polyxena it is important to bear in mind that several taxa show considerable intraspecific variation, and, also, cultivation conditions have a pronounced effect on the appearance of the plants, with the foliage very susceptible to etiolation. In addition the foliage of seedlings is frequently rather different to that of mature plants.
It is to be hoped that the results of Alison van der Merwe's studies on the various genera of the Massonieae are available to a wide audience in the near future. In addition to the publication of P longituba, cited by Mary Sue, she has published preliminary data in an IBSA bulletin (vol 47, pp11-13). The previous conventional taxonomic coverage of the genus dates from 1976 (Jessop, J South African Botany, vol 42, 401-437) and is rather outdated.
Regarding Daubenya aurea, I would not be too concerned about failure to produce foliage at the start of the growing season, whether acclimatised or not, as in my experience plants frequently 'miss years' by remaining dormant. My oldest plant has only actually appeared during 5 growing seasons in the past 8! The plant is likely to be relatively easy to acclimatise - certainly easier than irids. I have always been rather surprised that such a striking plant, apparently widely available in commerce in S Africa (I believe ex Hadeco) has not been extensively commercialised elsewhere - an opportunity perhaps for an enlightened nursery to follow up? Any person buying non-acclimatised bulbs in the N hemisphere should ensure that they were not illeagally collected from the wild where the plant is rare.
Daubenya aurea is straightforward to propagate from seed but, as is so often the case, the label on the packet is no guarantee of correct identification!!! In the Massonieae in general there is much incorrectly named material around. Fortunately most of the taxa are worth growing so it should generally not be too disappointing if the plants turn out to be something other than expected!
regards
Robin Attrill
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 18:37:11 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021101155512.00bd61d0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Topic of the Week
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:55:13 -0800
Dear All,
Some of you may remember that a couple months ago it was mentioned that I might start the topic of the week once I got everything replanted and seeds started. I am getting close to that time. For background information for those who do not know what I am talking about, in the year 2000 I organized the topic of the week for the IBS forum. People submitted suggestions of things they wanted to talk about and I compiled the votes and then organized a topic for each week. It was not meant to be the only thing discussed during the week, but an additional subject that hopefully people would share their experiences about so we could all learn from each other.
I tried to schedule topics for when they would be relevant in at least one of the hemispheres, but of course wasn't always able to do that. Although it was a lot of work to do it, I learned so much in the process and became better acquainted with many generous people who agreed to provide an introduction and often moderate the discussion on a subject that they knew a lot about (or were very interested in.)
What made it especially valuable I thought were those splendid introductions and all the responses they generated from others. I saved each topic as I am sure others did and often go back to them to reread and refresh my memory. Just for informational purposes topics were
Favorite Books, Clivia, Seeds, Moraea, Galanthus, Cyclamen, Veltheimia, Leucojum, Romulea, Anemone, fragrance and scent in bulbs, Oxalis, Juno Iris, Geophytic Pelargonium, Tecophilaea, Anomatheca--Freesia--Lapeirousia connection, Homeria, Bomarea, Fertilizers, Tulbaghia, Pleione, Tritonia, Arum, Herbertia and Alophia, Colchicum, Watsonia, Gethyllis, Phaedrannasa, Dierama, Allium, Massonia/Polyxena, Calydorea, Storage, Paramongaia, Canna, Amaryllis, Containers, window boxes, Habranthus, Lilium species, Crinum, Lycoris, Arisaema, Crocus (fall blooming species), Rhodophiala, Brunsvigia, Lachenalia, Narcissus (section bulbocodium), Fritillaria(American species), Cyrtanthus, Zephyranthes, Haemanthus, Alstroemeria, Tulipa (Antique tulips), Hippeastrum, Species, Calochortus (higher elevation species), and Getting bulbs in sync--changing hemispheres.
A number of people have told me how much they missed this when I retired and no one stepped in to continue it. In my next message I am going to ask the members of this list if they want to do this again. I don't want to go to all the work unless the group is really interested and unless people will once again help make it special by assisting with introductions, asking questions, and sharing what their experiences have been. So I will ask people to respond to me privately and give it a couple of weeks since I know sometimes people are away and don't get through their e-mail right away. If a lot of people write that they want us to do this and will be involved, I will then devise a system to nominate topics. If only a few express interest, we will not resurrect this.
Mary Sue
PBS list administrator
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 17:42:40 2002
Message-Id: <005d01c28208$8b8e4020$c89c3bcb@marywise>
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 08:41:11 +0800
I have acquired seed of Brodiaea terrestris can anyone please tell me what
time of the year this should be sown ?? tia ) Mary
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 18:37:11 2002
Message-Id: <002501c28218$08f20560$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:31:28 -0800
Hi Mary -
My late husband Jim Robinett enjoyed great success by sowing all Brodiaea
seeds in the autumn, before winter rains would be setting in. If your seeds
are B. terrestris var. terrestris, it is mostly found in coastal and
near-coastal conditions, where it grows in grassy low areas where the soil
stays damp well into late spring or even early summer. It is happiest when
given some protection from the hot summer sun, especially from midday on.
This protection is normally provided by fog in its preferred areas, but can
be provided by growing it where it will receive shade in the afternoon.
Depending on where you live, it may need extra water in winter and early
spring in low-rainfall areas (it grows mostly in areas that receive 30 to 50
inches of rain a year) - as well as some protection from becoming too hot
while its soil is still damp. A good rule of thumb is to stop watering and
dry back slowly when the leaves start to yellow. As a coastal plant, it will
also need some protection from frost and especially from "hard" freezes.
Expect 3 to 5 years from planting to first flowering.
If your seeds are B. terrestris var. kernensis, it grows further south and
further inland, tending to prefer grassy north or east-facing banks,
requires less water (20 inches of rain a year or less in its habitat),
tolerates sun and heat well, still doesn't like hard freezes, and may take
even longer to reach blooming size.
Good luck with it - either var. is a very pretty little plant !!!
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 19:00:35 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021101184637.00c3a100@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Calochortus Society & Welcome to Georgie Robinett
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 18:55:48 -0800
Dear All,
Georgie hasn't introduced herself, but I am pleased to see that she has already contributed some of her extensive knowledge to our group. Georgie and her late husband Jim traveled all over California and learned all about our native bulbs from observing them in the wild and growing them as well. Georgie now lives in Brookings Oregon and is the editor of Mariposa, the newsletter of the Calochortus Society. For anyone who is interested in Calochortus this is treasure of information. I have kept every one. In most issues a species is profiled with historical information and lots of comments on how to tell it apart from others species and cultural information as well. There is a page of color copy photographs illustrating that species from pictures taken in the past by Jim. You can't always find pictures of the different species of Calochortus and what is especially nice is that you get a sense of all the variations of the plants seen in the wild. Once a year there is a wonderful seed list of seed donated by members from wild and cultivated seed.
Welcome to our group Georgie and we all look forward to learning from you.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 19:30:53 2002
Message-Id: <007001c2821d$c1c3eae0$c89c3bcb@marywise>
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:13:01 +0800
Thanks so much for the info Georgie ) I will file that. I live in the S West of Western Australia where it is a bit fierce in the Summer but we do get our main rains in the Winter (that is when they remember to come) so that should suit it just so long as I make sure to protect it from the hot sun. It is labelled Brodiaea terrestris v terrestris (just checked ) ) B corinaria is about to burst into bloom I am so thrilled that it has managed to survive. Had one blooming stem last year for the first time since I sowed the seed and just went and counted and there is 15 stems ! I have noticed though that the leaves are dying back already is this normal or have I kept it too dry ????
cheers
Mary
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 19:34:06 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021101193157.00bd7af0@mail.mcn.org>
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:32:14 -0800
Hi Mary
The seed should be sown in April when the nights become cooler. It
will germinate pretty soon and by the following November small corms will
have formed. These will remain dormant during summer and resume growth in
autumn and so on until the third year or so they will flower for the first
time. These plant need full sun, good drainage but a soil with some body as
they grow in almost pure clay in the wild. Nice and dependable, the pale
violet flowers appear on very short pedicels in November.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 19:54:52 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021101193444.00c0baf0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:49:43 -0800
Dear All,
I just want to put my two cents in on this one since it is one of the bulbs that grows where I live and I enjoy seeing it when I am out hiking in spring. Although some are pale violet, others are much darker in color. It seems to thrive in wet places and wet years. The year we got almost 100 inches of rain (254 cm.) they were everywhere. It was hard to walk on some trails without stepping on them. Our soils are very low in nutrients and some of these are found close to the ocean where it is very windy. So the ones in the wild are very short (ssp. terrestis) In cultivation with better soil and no wind they are much taller.
It is not unusual for a lot of the Brodiaeas, Dichelostemmas, and Triteleias to be blooming after their leaves have started to yellow.
Good luck Mary and I am glad you have that Brodiaea coronaria in bloom.
(note from Mary on the Australian list B corinaria is about to burst into bloom I am so thrilled that it has managed to survive. Had one blooming stem last year for the first time since I sowed the seed and just went and counted and there is 15 stems ! I have noticed though that the leaves are dying back already ,is this normal or have I kept it too dry ???? cheers Mary)
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 21:50:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Re Brodiaea seed
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:14:34 +0800
Thanks so much Mary Sue. I have received more info in a the past few hours from Georgie ,Alberto and you than I have been able to find in 5 yrs )) I feel much more confident now to try even more of these treasures as they really do appeal to me. Also feel happier knowing that the leaves looking 'manky' is normal behaviour )
cheers
Mary
From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 21:50:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Re Brodiaea seed
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:20:55 -0800
Mary,
I only grow the common 'Queen Fabiola' but have grown it (and given hundreds
of small bulbs to BX and other friends over time) but every year (it is in
pots here, large pots) without exception, it blooms after all foliage has
yellowed and after most foliage is browned and died.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 07:02:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: tuberose
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 06:55:54 -0400
Cathy,
I grow both the double and single types of polianthes. I agree that the
double one smells very much like gardenia. The single one has more of its
own smell, and I think it is even more delightful. One thing I think I have
discovered is that they last longer as cut flowers and smell better if they
are in a non-air-conditioned room. My guess is that low humidity affects
them. When I get around to unearthing my tuberoses, I'll probably have
extras to give to the BX.
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 07:02:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:50:19 +0000
Dear Mary
As Paul says it is normal for plants like Brodiaeas, Triteleias, Dichelostemmas, Conantheras, Leucocoryne, etc. to flower after the leaves have partial or totally dried. But, in this humid climate none of them all do this. Instead, they retain their green foliage long after they have flowered. This obviously points to an adaptation to lack of late spring/summer water in the wild.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 07:02:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: tuberose
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 05:28:52 -0800
Hi Dell,
I will look forward to applying for some. My two doubles are in a pot. Would
they prefer full sun or light shade? Maybe it doesn't matter a lot since
they bloom in fall and the light and heat levels are much lower than in
spring and summer?
Gardenias are ok but I'm not a big fan of that particular scent. Maybe I
will like the singles better.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:29:22 2002
Message-Id: <002e01c282c3$cbfec420$929c3bcb@marywise>
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] re Brodiaea seed
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:01:32 +0800
Thanks Alberto. I have noticed that the Leucocoryne which are in pots in a
slightly more protected position from the hot afternoon sun have held their
foliage better, whereas the ones I have planted out into the garden in a very bright position lost their leaves early on. I had hoped to get flowers from Tritelia pedunculata this season as it must be at least 4 yrs from seed but it doesnt look as though it is going to happen as the foliage is starting to go back now and I can see no sign of a bud.
T. "Queen Fabiola" is flowering now so guess the others should have shown some singn by now if they were going to.
cheers
Mary
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:29:22 2002
Message-Id: <003701c282c4$58897700$929c3bcb@marywise>
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 07:05:31 +0800
Thanks Cathy it seems to hold its leaves here in the garden where it is very
happy in a spot where the garden gets good morning sun and the dappled shade
of a Eucalypt in the afternoon. have noticed plants popping up here and
there so it obviously sets seed as well ) cheers Mary
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:46:57 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021102153105.00c40b10@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Brodiaea/Triteleia
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:37:30 -0800
Dear Mary,
Triteleia laxa is one of California's most adaptable bulbs. I have grown it with regular summer water and without, in clay and in sandstone and it has survived and thrived. What I am finding to be fun now is to grow seed from different locations so you can get some that are tall, some that are short, some that are pale blue, some that are dark blue, some that get bigger each year without many offsets, etc.
As for Triteleia peduncularis, in the wild you often see it in seeps. It really likes the water while in growth. I have had blooming sized bulbs not bloom in a year when the rains stopped early and I didn't water it enough.
I think Alberto's comments are very apt about how some things in cultivation under different conditions behave differently than in the wild. When I try to verify that something I grow from seed is what it is supposed to be and look it up I have found comments like leaves dried before blooming may not always be right.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 17:38:50 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021102164602.00914c80@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Bulbs in northern Chile
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 16:46:02 -0800
This is just a brief note of what I hope to write up for a future issue of
the "Rock Garden Quarterly." Apologies to the editors of "Bulbs" and "The
Bulb Garden," but the one I edit is first in line!
I have just returned from three weeks traveling in Chile, mostly north of
Santiago in Regions II, III, and IV -- from Valparaiso in the south, to
Antofogasta in the north. Since I was traveling with someone who had little
interest in plants but wished to find interesting minerals, we had to make
some forays into the interior; however, most of the interesting plants I
saw were near the coast. Later in the year, there is much to see in the
Andes, but this time I saw only a few (but good) snowmelt plants in bloom
there.
The vegetation of the coastal strip is supported by moisture from fogs,
which enveloped us much of the time we were there. As a former San
Franciscan I don't mind being in fog, but my traveling companion found it
offensive and complained a lot about my wish to remain in that area.
Elsewhere, rain is infrequent, but this year there were unusually heavy
rains triggered by El Nino. This stimulates the phenomenon known as the
Desierto Florido 'flowering desert', much as wet winters do in the deserts
of southern California. Where the terrain had not been entirely degraded by
grazing, large fields of flowers, many of them annuals, swept on to the
horizon. Most prominent were magenta Calandrinia speciosa and similar tall
species, rose-pink Cristaria (Malvaceae) species, and Argylia radiata, a
yellow/brown/orange member of the Bignoniaceae. Many cacti were also in
flower and I was particularly taken with Copiapoa cinerascens, a large
grayish ball cactus. The genus Nolana (Nolanaceae, but similar to
Convolvulus of Petunia in flower form) is remarkably varied here, from
superb foliage mats with insignificant flowers, to trailing plants with
huge showy pale or bright blue blossoms, to subshrubs. All these plants
would be suitable for coastal California.
The most rewarding part in terms of geophytes was the wealth of
Alstroemeria species. I photographed A. kingii, paupercula, leporina,
sierrae, two subspecies of A. pulchra, and one with bright green succulent
leaves that I have not identified yet. In the Andean precordillera I saw
emerging plants that I supposed to be A. pallida, A. umbellata, and one of
the small ones with very twisted leaves.
I don't know if Aristolochia can be considered a geophyte, but it was
fascinating to see A. chilensis in both dark brown and yellow-green forms,
the latter near the coast the former more inland.
There were fields dotted with hundreds of thousands of Rhodophiala
bagnoldii, a large yellow-flowered species. R. laeta is supposed to be in
the area, and its photographs were often displayed in hotels, etc., but
when I asked where it grew, the answer was always "Around [place somewhere
else]."
Leucocoryne coquimbensis was common in both white and pale blue forms. I
also saw L. violascens and L. ixioides. A similar plant but much more
impressive was Calydorea xiphioides, with bright violet, gold-centered
large flowers. I saw it in only one spot and the plant manual says it is
becoming rare because of being dug for its edible bulbs.
Pasithea caerulea, a rather tall, robust plant with cobalt-blue flowers,
grows both on the coast in fairly far inland. The inland plants I saw
seemed larger. This is definitely one to try in gardens.
Every trip has a "grail" plant and this one was Leontochir ovallei, an
Alstroemeria relative, monotypic genus, and rare endemic. It grows in
Parque Nacional Pan de Azucar, and I found it growing from a crevice in a
rocky side canyon, fortunately in perfect bloom. With half a roll of film
devoted to it, I hope at least one photo turns out well.... It resembles a
lax-stemmed Alstro, very leafy, with the flowers in a congested umbel. They
are deep red and tubular; yellow forms also exist. Its rarity must be due
in part to grazing animals, especially goats, which are the bane of the
Chilean flora.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 17:38:50 2002
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20021102173450.00b9f7c8@mailbox2.cts.com>
From: Marguerite English
Subject: Bulbs in northern Chile
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:37:44 -0800
I wouldn't have expected it to be any other way. < giggles> No apologies needed. At least I'll get to read it in 'your' magazine, which I appreciate greatly. I keep hoping for the time we can add to our photos and use some color, but we aren't there quite yet.
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 20:00:26 2002
Message-Id: <003101c282e4$c3a32ac0$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea seed
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 18:56:58 -0800
Hi Mary -
Thanks for the info on your climate. Others have already let you know that it is "normal" for Brodiaea / Dichelostemma / Triteleia leaves to die back before blooming, but that is most applicable to species that grow naturally in hot climates. B. terrestris var. terrestris in its native habitat may stay virtually "evergreen," as noted by Alberto. Your B. coronaria is from higher elevation inland plateaus in northeast California (roughly, the southern Cascade foothills spilling onto the lava plateaus northeast of Mount Lassen, the latter being essentially a Great Basin climate). It prefers more water and usuallycan be found in "low places" and on "lava caps" which are essentially impervious and thus "pool" water under a fairly thin layer of soil. It is a wonderful plant, especially when seen in the "drifts" that bloom after a good winter-rainfall year. It does tend to be fairly uniform in flower color, while the B. terrestris is more variable.
Enjoy !!!
---------- Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 20:00:26 2002
Message-Id: <003701c282e6$8c3d1ee0$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Calochortus Society & Welcome to Georgie Robinett
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:09:45 -0800
Hi one and all -
Thanks for the intro, Mary Sue. I hadn't quite made up my mind about
participating - and then all of a sudden, found myself in the middle of a
discussion !!!
As she said, Jim and I traveled all over California - and southern Oregon -
and even a bit to the east across the Great Basin. We also had a wonderful
tour of South Africa some years back with Stan Farwig that will stay with me
for many years.
And, as noted, I am still editing the Calochortus Society newsletter (called
MARIPOSA) and would be glad to have any new readers. The current
subscription price is $10 domestic and $13 overseas/air mail, for a
newsletter of 6 pages, including 1 color page, four times a year. To keep
things simple, all subs are for a full volume year, starting with July and
completing in April. All the back volumes are available, although the
earlier volumes are uneven in printing quality (and cost less). The October
issue offers the seed exchange, which this year is unusually large and
varied. Seeds go out for $1 in total to domestic, and $3 in total overseas -
no matter how many seeds you order. Seeds are simply divided among all those
who order them, until they run out.
I am retired, and living where I can't really grow very much. But I'm more
than happy to supply knowledge when I have it. And I am thoroughly enjoying
my e-mail reading !!!!!
Best wishes -------------------- Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 10:03:12 2002
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20021103082838.00b973b8@mailbox2.cts.com>
From: Marguerite English
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:32:42 -0800
Thanks so much for your contribution. I've been trying some of the native bulbs and Brodiaea has always been a favorite. It's nice to know a little more about it. I have just been trying to decide whether to plant some of the small Calocortus bulbs I got recently in a pot to cover for losing those in the outside bed in case I get raided by gophers. What do you think, and if I do, how deep should that pot be. I'll definitely be getting back to you about the newsletter!
Marguerite English, Editor 'The Bulb Garden'
From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 12:29:07 2002
Message-Id: <3DC5795B.9040305@cox.net>
From: Claude Sweet
Subject: oxalis in rock gardens
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:30:35 -0800
I would appreciate suggestions and comments from anyone who has experience planting oxalis in rock gardens, especially in cold climates. I am interested in both summer and winter flowering oxalis plantings.
Most of my oxalis are grown in containers, especially the summer dormant ones consists multiple pots, containing a few bulbs of individually named selections. It helps me protect them loss and helps me maintain identification labels.
As part of a trade for some Lycoris radiata ssp. pumila from Jane McGary, I agreed to write an article on oxalis for the Rock Garden Quarterly.
My approach to this article requires me to contact people who have experience with the oxalis planted directly in the ground. I would like to establish a dialog or interview such individuals.
Topics would include
1. rodent damage to the bulbs - something has harvested and eaten my summer dormant bulbs
2. which species thrive, which are marginal, and which might be invasive, especially in colder climates than I experience in my mild winter climate
3. have you experienced pest or disease problems - an orange rust has infected a few of my species
4. commercial sources, especially mail order
Claude Sweet
San Diego, CA
From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 13:37:16 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: baby bulb attack!
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:44:10 -0800 (PST)
Help!
My baby bulbs have been attacked. These were some that I started from seed last fall, in 4" pots. Some had just begun their new season's growth. Most were very small - not even 1/4". What would do this?
I live in Riverside, in an apartment complex. We don't have many hiding places for creatures - more concrete than dirt. The pots were on the second shelf of a 3-tiered rack, but none of them were knocked off, so this must have been something very small. They were very selective. They ate the baby bulbs, but left behind the tunics, the roots, and any new growth that had popped through the soil. They loved my Romuleas. They took Moraea papilionicaea and M. aristata, but left M. elliotii. They took Anomatheca laxa but left A. viridis. They took Gladiolus tristis but left another Glad species. Mice? Rats? And, more importantly, how do I stop them from taking the rest of my baby bulbs?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jennifer
From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 13:37:16 2002
Message-Id:
From: Elizabeth Waterman
Subject: baby bulb attack!
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:10:56 -0800
Roof rats are one possibility. My problem is more squirrels but I use Ropel (not Repel) and it works pretty well as long as I remember to reapply it every 10 days or so. For picture of bottle see http//www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page399.html
Liz W
From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 15:40:02 2002
Message-Id:
From: GardenPT@aol.com
Subject: baby bulb attack!
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:14:14 EST
In a message dated 11/3/2002 12:44:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, theotherjen8@yahoo.com writes:
My baby bulbs have been attacked. ... Mice? Rats? And, more importantly, how do I stop them from taking the rest of my baby bulbs?
When I volunteered at the UCI Arboretum some years ago, we had problems with mice in the lath houses and greenhouses. They enjoyed tasty snacks and loved to nest in the large pots.
Is it feasible to put screening over/around your pots? If so, you could fashion a "box" of quarter inch hardware cloth, with one side open. Set the box upside down over the pots, then secure it either by wiring it to the shelving, or weighing it down with something.
Jean
Portland, OR
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 12:41:44 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021103170931.00914520@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: oxalis in rock gardens
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:09:31 -0800
Thanks to Claude Sweet for doing research on his projected article. I'll
start the ball rolling by mentioning the Oxalis species (other than the
weeds!) that I'm able to grow in the open here in northwestern Oregon,
where typical winter lows are around 15 degrees Fahrenheit/minus 10 degrees
Celsius, and about 45 inches/115 cm of rain falls between October and June.
Oxalis obtusa survives in the open but does not flourish as well as it does
(i.e., rather too well) in my unheated bulb frames. It remains very small
but it does flower. O. squamata from the foothills of central Chile does
well most years and produces its pink flowers all summer; I think it might
become a pest in a warmer zone, but the winters keep it reined in here. O.
adenophylla is a standard plant for dry walls and the peaty rock garden
here. I think O. laciniata and O. enneaphylla would probably do well but I
don't have enough to risk them yet so am growing them in pots on my deck,
plunged and out of the rain in winter. I've tried O. purpurea 'Ken Aslet'
outdoors but it died out both times; its foliage seems not to be able to
take the winter wet.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 12:41:44 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021103172156.00915420@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: baby bulb attack!
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:21:56 -0800
Jennifer's problem is almost certainly mice of some kind. If they are house
mice, as is likely in an apartment building, they can be controlled with
D-Con, but field mice seem not to be interested in this bait. Traps baited
with peanut butter are also effective. I have wire over a few pots but it's
difficult to get it secure enough to exclude mice, and the plants can't
grow up very well through wire with a mesh small enough to keep out the mice.
I had an awful time with mice in the bulb frames last year but this year
they have not attacked yet. I set a lot of traps before leaving on my
vacation recently and found only one sprung (no mouse) when I returned. I
hate setting them because they are so poorly made that it's very hard to
set them without snapping one's fingers occasionally. (Is there a gadget to
set mousetraps with?) I've tried the sticky pads but they are useless,
anyway useless in cold temperatures. There is a strychnine-laced wheat bait
available, but I am afraid to use it for fear a mouse would die outside the
frame and be eaten by some carnivore, which would then be poisoned.
We will now hear from members of PETA. I can take it. I just handled a
steaming email from a Canadian complaining that our book title "Bulbs of
North America" was "false advertising" and arrogant US imperialism because
it did not feature the bulbs of Canada (in fact, they're all there--about a
dozen, I think--but all of them occur in the US as well).
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 21:44:40 2002
Message-Id: <000801c283a3$3cb68e20$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:40:26 -0800
Hi Marguerite ----
I would STRONGLY recommend you pot up the Calochortus bulbs, as gophers are
quite fond of them. We never tried to grow them in the ground, as the soil
on our property was a wonderful sandy loam - and the gophers had a field day
tunneling all over. When it rained, we were always (wryly) amused by the
little "waterspouts" that appeared all over, from the rain water rushing
through and coming out of their tunnels !
Jim used wooden or plastic flats (with holes in the bottom) or large azalea
pots, at least 6 inches deep and ideally 8 inches. You don't have to worry
about planting the bulbs "at the right depth"; each bulb has its own little
corkscrew-shaped specialized rootlet that will pull it down to its preferred
depth. Just layer the bottom of the pot (a little gravel or lava rock works
well, then a well-draining soil mix) and settle the bulblet / bulbs in with
at least an inch of mix on top of them. If it gets very hot where you are,
you can dress the top with a little white gravel to help the bulbs stay
cool. NOW is the ideal time for moving them, before they begin their next
year's growth. Potting them will also make it easier to control their
conditions, of course.
Let me know if you have other questions. And, by the way, I am always
pleased to hear from people who like the Brodiaeas - so many people seem to
think of them as "weeds." I got into an interesting correspondence this past
winter with a botanist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison who has been
studying the Brodiaeas and their relatives, doing DNA analysis to
reconstruct their phylogenetic relationships. Some of his results were
rather surprising to me.
Best wishes --------------- Georgie
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 08:32:15 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021104104520.03b18ec0@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Polyxena/Massonia sp.?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:00:58 -0500
Hi all,
Thanks to Mary Sue and to Robin Attrill for all the helpful pointers. The pictures in Terry Smale's article in the June, 2002, Bulletin of the Alpine Garden Society are helpful, as well as some of the notes. I've sent a couple pics of it to the Bulbs_Images list. The accession number in my database for these plants is #515, regardless of what genus they eventually land in.
I think a salient point in favor of Massonia may be that the leaves on these plants are up to 112 mm wide this year. On the three biggest plants, the wider leaf was 95 mm, 110 mm, and 112 mm. I wonder if this doesn't make Polyxena less likely?
Note in the images that the tepal segments are strongly recurved -- actually pretty much curled up like a watchspring. The pictures I've seen of Polyxena ensfolia have shown erect, straight tepals. the only bloom so far on my Daubenya NOT! looked very much like a tinuy version of the picture of P. ensifolia in Terry Smale's article.
Oh yes, and in case the images I sent to the Bulbs_Images list don't show it, the pollen is blue.
I am looking forward to bloom soon on two bulbs of the pustulate form of Massonia jasminiflora that I got from Charles Craib a couple years ago.
Besides any other uncertainties, the young age of these bulbs and the weak winter sun here (compared to South Africa or Southern California) are doubtless contributing to non-typical appearances.
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 08:32:15 2002
Message-Id: <20021104160923.15975.qmail@web40501.mail.yahoo.com>
From: ann marie
Subject: oxalis in rock gardens
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 08:09:23 -0800 (PST)
Claude, I have a section of my garden just for Oxalis, I don't get rodents because the dog discourages all other wildlife and cats from entering her domain. What I do get are smashed oxalis from doggy! But I'm happy to say they come back in a couple of days and I think they are getting hardier because of this treatment. As far as which is hardier I'll get back to you because I don't have my notes with me.
I hunt for oxalis everywhere. I got some unusual ones from a catalogue, Glasshouseworks. And I hunt all the home depot, walmarts and targets for something unusual and they get them every once in a while. I also have a friend who owns Nuccio's Camellia and Azalea Nursery here in So Calif, that collects and shares oxalis with me. He had one variety that kept getting rust, he was going to throw it out I saved it from the trash with his permission, to see if enviroment would stop the rusting. Just the other day I was moving pots around and n
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 10:51:45 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 14
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:13:10 -0400
Dear All,
The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for
sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me
PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 14" in the subject line.
Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify
quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system.
When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a
statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS
treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class
postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address
too, in case I don't already have it.
Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of
the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future
offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com
If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send
clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA,
18928, USA.
OFFERINGS:
Pacific BX 14:
BULBS:
From Cathy Craig:
1. Lilium 'Garden Angel' "Oriental, 3-4 ft,
July. Upfacing flowers on very strong stems. I have had this in pots and it
has done ok but I can tell it doesn't like it. Have planted the ones I kept
out in a bed and will see how it does next year."
2. Lilium 'Tinos'
looks more like a hibiscus with a deep red center and golden accent. This is
an asiatic and grows to 3-4 ft. Blooms June. Seems to
offset well. Photo in B&D 2001 catalog pg 65. If I hadn't desperately needed
the space I'd have kept all the smaller bulbs myself. The photo doesn't even
come close to showing how gorgeous and striking this lily is and I can't
explain how the flower texture appears with these markings. Imo, it is the
prettiest lily I grow. Very nice scent. Makes a lot of flowers even when
young. It is a up and outfacing flower. Has been in a pretty dry bed in
pretty heavy soil and done really well. MUST HAVE.
SEED:
From Charles Hardman:
3. Lachenalia sp., violet shades
4. Lachenalia sp., blue forms
5. Lachenalia sp., chartreuse flowers
6. Lachenalia sp., very good lilac
7. Lachanalia sp.
8. Lachenalia orthopetala
9. Lachenalia "purpurescens" (purpureo-caerulea?)
10. Lachenalia unicolor
11. Lachenalia sp., green, puce, violet, blue & brown combination
12. Lachenalia sp., pale lilac
13. Lachenalia sp., tiny grower
14. Lachenalia sp., MV 22865
15. Lachenalia sp., creamy white & green
16. Lachenalia sp., good slate blue
17. Lachenalia sp., chartreuse yellow
18. Lachenalia sp., blue violet
19. Lachenalia liliflora
Also from Cathy Craig:
20. seed of Littonia modesta
Thank you, Cathy and Charles !!
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 12:41:44 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021104085125.00b06100@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Polyxena/Massonia sp.?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:24:05 -0800
Dear Jim,
I think your picture looks like a Massonia. Julian Slade had one of the most gorgeous photos of Massonia pustulata on the Australian Images list this year. I still have it so I will send the image to you to see if that helps. His have that lovely purplish pustule look to the leaves that I have on only one of my plants. I will post pictures my husband took for me of Polyxena longituba that shows the leaf ("Involute, canaliculate means leaf edges folded inwards, like a pipe in which you cut a length wards section not reaching the diameter") and a picture from about a month ago of Massonia pustulata. It's a little dark, but if you look hard maybe you can see how most of the leaves are green without pustules and two have pustules and a purplish tint. I expect more of them to have pustules in later years. Most of the plants are going to bloom so will have another picture later. Most of my Polyxena longituba are in bloom now with quite a few tiny flowers. I think it is really cool. For Diane's data base I started the seed 9/13/99. It started germinating 11/16/99. I had my first bloom 11/01 on a couple of the plants and almost all of them are blooming this year.
I saw some Massonia jasminiflora blooming when we visited Rhoda and Cameron McMaster last September. I got seed from Rhoda because it was a sweet little thing, but none of it came up. It was one of the few bulbs in bloom in the Eastern Cape when we visited since that is mostly a summer rainfall area. Maybe Rhoda can tell us about it?
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 15:50:22 2002
Message-Id: <320083817243-0001@t-online.de.Mon,.04.Nov.2002.15:35:49.PST>
From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban)
Subject: baby bulb attack
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:35:49 PST
Dear Jennifer and Dear All,
Losing bulbs through pests is always very annoying! I lost part of my Oxalis collection because of mice digging the dormant bulbs out of their pots and carrying them away! Now I use a fine metal mesh that I cut into pieces each larger than the individual sqare pot. I fold the sides down at 90° so that it will slide into the pot tightly and the folded part is pushed into the soil this way securing it and making sure there are no gaps between the pot wall and the mesh. The plants happily grow through the mesh. The disadvantage is that it cannot be applied once a plant has grown to a certain size but it can be reused when repotting. This is not my own invention but was featured in one of the issues of "bulbs". So far no more problems.
Greetings from Germany, Uli Winter setting in!
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 17:49:02 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Hieronymiella aurea & Rhodophiala advena Seedling Update
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:29:15 -0800
>Hi All,
>
>For those of you who got these particular IBS B/X seeds in September of 2001
>and March of 2002, I thought I'd provide a progress report. The plants in
>question are Rhodophiala advena and Hieronymiella aurea, respectively.
>>
>Mark Wilcox
>Washington, DC
First off, I am amazed that you grew the Hieronymiella inside to such a large size in such a short time. It's only been about 6-7 months since we got seeds for it. The 3 or 4 seedlings I managed to keep growing through the summer are still small, spindly, single-leaved things, nothing like the strap-leaved giant you show in the photos. How did you grow it? What were the daily temperature extremes? What kind of soil mix did you use? Any fertilizers?
Secondly, Steve Putnam managed to get hold of the Kurtziana articles that were referenced by Alan Meerow back in March. They are in Spanish, and I started a quick attempt at translating them, but don't know how good it is (and have had to pause for the last 2-3 months because of a new baby and no spare time). I'm sure Alberto Castillo could do a superb job if he had the time.
In any case, I'm appending below the parts from the four articles that deal with Hieronymiella tintinensis which Hunziker says is the same thing as H. aurea. At the end is a key for the whole genus which is found in the third (1975) article that I updated slightly based on the fourth (1995) article. I'm not sure if they'll help any with growing them, but there is a lot of information there that someone might find useful. (And the website
Table of Contents for Bryological Glossary in Spanish and Table of Contents for Bryological Glossary in English helped a lot with all the botanical terms I don't know.)
--Lee Poulsen
PBS Treasurer
====================================================== [pg. 7] KURTZIANA 4: 7-18 Córdoba, December 1967
STUDIES ON AMARYLLIDACEAE. II1. TAXONOMIC NOTES ON THE GENERA HIERONYMIELLA, HIPPEASTRUM AND HABRANTHUS
ARMANDO T. HUNZIKER 2
I. A NEW SPECIES OF Hieronymiella, AND THE INVALIDITY OF Eustephiopsis......7
II. THE BOTANIC NAME OF THE "Azucena blanca fragrante" ("fragrant white Lily") OF THE ARGENTINE NORTHEAST.............12
III. A SPECIES OF Habranthus NOVEL TO THE ARGENTINE FLORA.....15
IV. SUMMARY........17
I. A NEW SPECIES OF Hieronymiella, AND THE INVALIDITY OF Eustephiopsis
The monotypic genus Hieronymiella PAX is one of the least known among the Argentine Amaryllids. Important characteristics not yet pointed out-of the species type, and of others that ought to be transferred to Hieronymiella-will be treated "in extenso" in a subsequent article, as soon as we complete our information about very valuable materials that we have been cultivating-for some time now-with Dr. A. E. Cocucci. This note has as its objective to not delay the knowledge of a very beautiful new species coming from northeastern Argentina, and whose characteristics are:
Hieronymiella tintinensis nov. sp. (Fig. 1)
1 The first submission of this series is: A. T. HUNZIKER and A. E. COCUCCI. 1959. Studies on Amaryllidaceae I. A new species of Hippeastrum from Central Argentina: H. parodii nov. sp. Bol. Ac. Nac. Cienc. (Córdoba) 41 (1): 5-16. f. 1-4. 2 Member of the Office of Scientific Investigator (National Council of Scientific and Technical Investigation, Argentina). The illustrations that accompany this article were done by the artist LEONOR SÁNCHEZ.
[pg. 8] Argentina. Salta Prov.: Cachi Dept.: Bulbs collected on Cerro Tintin [Tintin Hill], 2800 m asl, between Payogasta and Tintin, JUAN HECTOR HUNZIKER and C. A. NARANJO, 27-II-1965, cult. in Córdoba. (CORD: bottle 1188; pots 255, 262 and 265).
Bulb from 8 to 8.5 cm in diameter by ±8.5 cm in height to the neck; neck from ±6.5 cm in length by ±1.8 cm in width; cauline [having to do with the stem] disk from ±2.5 cm in major diameter. Leaves, dark-green, linear, grooved/corrugated, 8 in number, well developed when the scape appears; during flowering they measure between 21 and 24 cm in length by 1-1.2 cm in width,narrowing towards the top (near the apex ±0.8 cm in width), with an acute apex; subhyaline edge, whitish, scabrous, having toward the apex relatively large papiliform emergences. Solid scape, greenish, 4-7 flowers, elliptical in cross-section, compressed, with 2 subacute edges, 22 to 32 cm in height; at soil level the major diameter is from 0.85-0.9 cm, and the minor diameter is from 0.45-0.5 cm, while at the apex they are ±0.7 cm by ±0.4 cm, respectively. Spathe formed by 2 free valves, from ±0.9 cm in length by 1 to 1.5 cm in basal width; 4 to 7 bracts, from 2 to 7 cm in length. Actinomorphic flowers, softly perfumed, oblique; pedicels from 2.1-3.1 cm in length by ±0.25 cm in diameter. Yellow perianth, from 5.5-6.4 cm in length, with obovate segments from 4.2-4.7 cm in length; short tube from 1.3-1.75 cm in length; sepals from 0.8-0.95 cm in width, with a short retrorse appendage on the internal face, below the mucron (mucron from 0.4-0.5 mm); apiculate petals, [pg. 10] wider than the sepals, from 1.2-1.3 cm in width. Almost completely welded stamens, in a big yellow corona, a little shorter than the perianth segments; subcylindric corona, contracted at the base, sometimes slightly urceolate (base diameter: ±5.5 mm; upper diameter: ±10 mm), from 3.3-3.5 cm in length (excl. appendages), inserted at the furthest point of the perianth tube, and with 5 basal openings, of a linear form and from 5.5-7 mm in length, that correspond to the non-welded stamenal areas; the very short free portions of the filaments are detached from its apex, from each of whose sides emerge pairs of lateral, reflex appendages, much longer than the anthers; said appendages correspond to the free terminal portions of the wings of each stamen, which, as has already been said, are completely interwelded, except for the 5 basal openings alluded to; anthers from 8 to 11 mm in length, inserted slightly lower than their half-height, on a portion of the filament that is free, oblique or horizontal, from barely 1 mm in length; lateral appendages from 8.5-10 mm in length, each one being welded in a small basal zone of 1 to 2.5 mm, with the appendage attached to the neighboring stamen. Curved ovary from 1.1 to 1.4 cm in length by 0.45 to 0.55 cm in width, each locule with 2 rows of numerous ovules; long cylindrical style, exceeding the apices [tips] of the perianth pieces; greenish, trifid stigma with slightly curved unequal lacinias, from 2.2 to 3.8 mm in length. Fruits and seeds not seen.
Obs. I.-The example that follows is a paratype:
ARGENTINA. Salta Prov.: Cachi Dept.: Campo de Tintin [Tintin Field], 3200 m a.s.l., GAROLERA and ROMERO, 21-I-1947 (LIL).
It coincides well with the holotype; the flowers are somewhat larger, with a perianth of 6.7-7.2 cm (tube is 2 cm and lobules are 4.8-5.2 cm), corona of 4 cm (with basal openings of 8.5-10.5 mm), etc.; the anthers are minor (4.5-5.5 mm) probably because they had already experienced dehiscence. It also does not have ripe fruits.
Obs. II.-This is about a very attractive species, because of its large yellow and perfumed flowers. In an equal manner to the type species of the genus, it presents a notably developed corona, with the anthers nearly seated along its interior superior edge (with each of the [pg. 11] pairs of lateral appendages), and 5 subbasal openings. The latter is an extremely important characteristic, which went unnoticed by PAX (1890: 327)3, when he published the genus, and by CASTELLANOS (1933: 494)4 when he emended it, probably because of the ease with which rips/tears are produced when the dried materials are hydrated for dissection; in the isotype (LORENTZ 449) of Hieronymiella clidanthoides PAX preserved in the Córdoba Herbarium, I have proved that-contrary to the original description and sheet [print?]3-the stamens are welded forming a cupuliform corona, conforming with the correction published by CASTELLANOS (l.c.); but furthermore, there also exist the openings corresponding to the unwelded areas within the stamens. This fact has well-known importance because it obliges us to re-emend the general diagnosis and throws out the validity of Eustephiopsis FRIES. What is variable is the length of the zone of stamenal attachment: from barely 2.5-3 mm, or rather, somewhat less than the anthers (for example, in the isotype and other materials originating in Salta), up to some 10 mm, or rather, approximately double that of the anthers (in A. T. HUNZIKER 13224: San Juan Prov., between Marayes and Nueva Castilla); correlatively, the length is greater than or less than that of the interstamenal openings. I reserve for the next article, announced at the beginning, the transference of the epithets proposed for Eustephiopsis that should move to Hieronymiella because, before this problem in nomenclature, we desire to clarify the taxonomy of the respective species.
Obs. III.-The differences between H. clidanthoides and H. tintinensis are large, and they are enumerated below; as can be noticed, they show within the genus, the same as in Hippeastrum, 2 evolutionary lines: one with long perianth tubes and the other with short tubes.
DIFFERENTIAL KEY FOR THE KNOWN SPECIES OF HIERONYMIELLA
1. Perianth of 9.5-14.5 cm in length, with a long tube, equal to or bigger than the lobules; of a pure white color, or with a few faint purple spots/marks, which spread and intensify after anthesis. Corona (excl. appendages) of 1-3.2 cm in length, between 3 and 4 times shorter than the perianth lobules. Leaves of 0.4-0.6 cm in width, [inflexible/unsecured?], and with a smooth/straight edge. H. clidanthoides [pg. 12] 1'. Perianth of 5.5-7.2 cm in length, with a short tube, smaller than the lobules; yellow in color. Corona (excl. appendages) of 3.3-4 cm in length, somewhat shorter than the perianth lobules. Leaves of 1-2.2 cm in width, barely curved, with rough/uneven edges and papiliform protrusions towards the apex/tip. H. tintinensis
3 F. PAX. 1890. Beiträge zur Kenntnis der Amaryllidaceae. Bot. Jahrb. 11: 318-337. Taf. VII. 4 A. CASTELLANOS. 1933. Notas fanerogámicas. Physis 11: 494-495.
=============================================================================== [P. 344] KURTZIANA 5: 343-367 Córdoba, 1969
STUDIES ON AMARYLLIDACEAE. III. PROVISIONAL SYNOPSIS OF HIERONYMIELLA, AND NEW ARGENTINE SPECIES OF ZEPHYRANTHES1
ARMANDO T. HUNZIKER2
I. MATERIALS FOR BETTER KNOWLEDGE OF Hieronymiella.....344 1. Description of the genus.....344 2. Differential key of the sections, species, and varieties.....346 3. Description of the sections, species, and varieties.....346 4. Dubious name.....359 II. NEW ARGENTINE SPECIES OF Zephyranthes.....359 1. Z. kurzii nov. sp......361 2. Z. tucumanensis nov. sp. ....362 3. Rediscovery of Z. bakeriana in Paraguay, and its existence in Argentina.....365 III. SUMMARY.....366
In presenting this third submission of my studies on Amaryllidaceae, I am pleased to put on record my profound gratitude to those who made this possible, continuously sending me generous remittances of bulbs and seeds. These include the following colleagues and friends: .
As in the previous submissions in this series, the indicated measurements refer to fresh material, or in liquid preservatives, or, if they are from an herbarium, previously soaked/steeped.
1 The previous submission was published in Kurtziana 4: 7-18, f. 1-3. 1967. Contribution to the knowledge of the "Flora of Central Argentina" (Sponsored by INTA-CAPFTA, plan #1007). The illustrations were done by the artist Prof. LEONOR SANCHEZ. 2 Affiliate of the Office of Scientific Investigator (National Council of Scientific and Technical Investigation, Buenos Aries).
[p. 345] 1. MATERIALS FOR BETTER KNOWLEDGE OF HIERONYMIELIA
Since I published, in 1967, my contribution on the genus Hieronymiella, new materials have flowered in the collection of bulbs I maintain, which have allowed me to elaborate a taxonomic scheme on the genus. Notwithstanding its provisional nature, I think it convenient to make it known now, since the data it contains clarify, in good measure, the relationships of Hieronymiella with several related genera and permit me to call attention to problems awaiting solution.
1. DESCRIPTION OF THE GENUS
Hieronymiella PAX emend. CASTELL.
A. CASTELLANOS, Physis 11: 494. 1935. Because he studied live material, the Argentine botanist was able to correct the original description, demonstrating that the wings of the filaments are welded amongst themselves; the original description and figure, to the contrary, mentioned independent stamens (Bot. Jahrb. 11: 327, Taf. 5-8, 1890). Another important general characteristic is the existence of 5 solutions of continuity in the corona (in the form of linear openings), which correspond to areas that are not welded between two consecutive stamens; it was not observed by CASTELLANOS (l.c.), and I recently placed it in evidence (op cit., 1967).
Bulbs with contractile roots, and a large neck of about 10 to 20 cm, or, sometimes, up to 30 cm in length, linear leaves, grooved (cross-section in the shape of a more-or-less closed U), from 2 to 12 mm in width, generally with an evanescent apex, and well-formed when flowering occurs. Solid scape, compressed, slight/small with 2 subacute [not quite sharp?] edges; spathe with 2 free valves. Perianth with tube larger than the sepals and petals; insertion level of the latter somewhat higher than that of the former; internal face of the sepals with a brief, retrorse[pointing or curved backwards or inward] appendage below the apical mucro[a short abrupt point]. Almost completely welded stamens in a large corona; this, with 5 short linear openings, which correspond to the unwelded zones of the filament wings of 2 adjacent stamens; oblong, /dorsifija/ anthers, which when dry after dehiscence are 3 times shorter than before, inserted on the corona almost at the same height, if the [opposipetals] are attached at a level somewhat superior to the [p. 345] 3 remaining [opposisepals]; the free and filiform[thread-like] portion of the filaments almost negligible (up to 1 mm in length); on both sides of the insertion of each anther there is a pair of lateral oblong appendages (which correspond to the free terminal parts of the wings of each stamen); each one of these appendages can remain independent or, as is common, is welded (up to 1/4 to almost 1/2 its length) with the neighboring appendage of the attached stamen. Ovary with 3 alternating locules and 3 nectaries; each locule with 2 rows of numerous ovules; very long style, a little shorter than the perianth; trifid stigma, with long, oblong stigmatic /lacinias/[deep segments]. Numerous seeds.
Type species: Hieronymiella clidanthoides PAX emend. CASTELL.
Obs.- Within the genera of northwestern Argentina with solid scapes and stamens with winged filaments, Hieronymiella is similar to Eustephia CAV. and Castellanoa TRAUB. The latter is a very little known monotypic genus, because ever since FRIES (Nov. Act. Reg. Soc. Sc. Upsal. Ser. 4, 1 (1): 161, Taf. 9, f. 3-4, 1905) brought to our knowledge the species that typifies it from the nomenclature point of view-with the name Hippeastrum marginatum R. E. FRIES-, no one has added new data, nor corrected some of those that the Swedish botanist originally contributed about its floral morphology3; that is why we might say about this rare plant of the Puna region: It is subject to confirmation until it is rediscovered and cultivated. It appears to coincide with Hieronymiella because of its heteromorphous /androceo/[male parts, stamens], with 3 long stamens and 3 short, and because these are welded among themselves; but above all else it would differ in that the corona that results from this interstaminal welding, would be attached, from extremity to extremity, to the perianth, while in Hieronymiella the corona is independent (except for its attachment to the perianth along the basal edge)4. Finally, with reference to Eustephia, its differences with Castellanoa and Hieronymiella seem to be clear: Its stamens are of equal length and free [unwelded] among themselves. On the other hand, the affinity of Hieronymiella with Hymenocallis SALISB. and Stenomesson HERB. is large, but, in either case, the respective differences are obvious.
3 There appear to be 2 observation errors that should be amended: That the stamens are free [unwelded], and that its filaments are not winged-dentate. 4 These observations are based on flower paths/tracks of 2 isotypes (CLAREN, Herb. KURTZ 11559; CORD and BAF) of Hippeastrum marginatum R. E. FRIES.
...
1. Hieronymiella tintinensis A. T. HUNZIKER
A. T. HUNZIKER, Kurtziana 4: 18, f. 1. December 20, 1967. With a date of October 31 of 1967 there was published without figures (Sellowia 19: 34) H. aurea RAVENNA; the description that supports this name consists of 17 lines, and alludes exclusively to one dried 7-8-flower scape, collected by C. SPEGAZZINI, in January 1897, in Amblayo (Salta Prov.). The author affirms that, furthermore, he was able to study live material obtained by himself in the same location, but he does not indicate a date of re-collection nor any other additional data; if that is the case, the following question logically follows: Why did he omit the characteristics of the bulbs and the leaves of the paratype, organs both missing in the holotype? If it appears well-evident that he is dealing with the same species (the differences in the description of H. aurea are not important-for example: that the scape is circular-, and, without a doubt, they should be attributed to observation errors due to the poorness of the material studied), I prefer to continue using, for the time being, a name that is not suspect from any point of view (it goes without saying that this affirmation has no ethical or moral implications, since the Code of Nomenclature, at least for the time being, completely ignores them); the lack of illustrations of H. aurea explain [are the reason for] this attitude/position/stand, and the fact that I still wasn't able to review the respective nomenclatural type.
Common name.-"Amancay"5
5 I owe this piece of information to don Manuel Carrasco-in charge of the Appraisal Station of La Punilla, near Cafayate-who cleared up for me that such a name is used in the Calchaquia(?) valleys.
The inclusion of this species in the Section Eustephiopsis is debatable; because of its corona, with a welded zone much greater than the very small linear apertures, as well as because of its very short filaments (which make the appendages go beyond the anthers), H. tintinensis is more similar to H. clidanthoides; nevertheless, provisionally, and until no further new arguments are likely-over [p. 351] all references to the karyotypes-, I opt to place it in this latter section for the following reasons:
1st) Structure of the corona: the stamens-with its filaments well-differentiated from its wings-, show the same basic curvature, upon insertion on the /corolino/[corollate?] tube, that characterizes the species of Sect. Eustephiopsis6; on the contrary, in H. clidanthoides the corona is straight on the interior, and on the stamens there is no difference between the filaments and the wings in the strict sense.
2nd) Insertion level of the perianth cycles: While in the section Eustephiopsis the petals are inserted almost at the same level as the sepals, in the section Hieronymiella there exists a comparatively long internode (from 2 to 4 mm) between both cycles of the perianth.
3rd) Short /corolino/[corolla?] tube: Even though the perianth tube of H. tintinensis is longer than that of the species in Sect. Eustephiopsis, it is contained almost 3 times in the sepals and petals; on the other hand, H. clidanthoides calls attention to its flowers with long tubes, always greater than the rest of the perianth.
For both its general aspect, as well as its color and fragrance, the flower of this species reminds one much, at first glance, of the flower of Hymenocallis amancaes (R. et P.) NICHOLSON; but, as it is analyzed in more depth, the differences are great, as much in the structure of the corona as in that of the perianth, the stigma, etc.
6 This characteristic probably influences the ease with which pollinating agents can shift, in search of nectar, to the bottom of the tube, since in the section Eustephiopsis this gets destroyed by the style, which fits tightly in the space left by the curved stamens. In this respect, it calls attention, in H. clidanthoides, to the quantity of small /silíceas/[silica?] particles and particles of other nature that continue accumulating on top of the ovary, precisely because of the lack of obstacles along the length of the internal surface of the flower.
=============================================================================== [pg. 79] KURTZIANA 8: 79-84 Córdoba, December 1975
STUDIES ON AMARYLLIDACEAE. V. THE LATEST IN HIERONYMIELLA1
ARMANDO T. HUNZIKER 2
1 The previous submission was published in Kurtziana 6: 261-263. 1971. Contribution to the knowledge of the "Flora of Central Argentina"; this investigation is economically supported by the International Biology Program (CONICET), and until 1974 it was by the National Institute of Farming Technology. 2 Member of the Office of Investigator, CONICET, Bueno Aires.
=============================================================================== [pg. 153] KURTZIANA 24: 153-155 Córdoba, August 1995
STUDIES ON AMARYLLIDACEAE. VII. NEW SYNONYMS IN HIERONYMIELLA AT THE GENERIC AND SPECIFIC LEVEL
SILVIA C. ARROYO-LEUENBERGER1 AND ARMANDO T. HUNZIKER2
1 Albrechstr. 115, 12167 Berlin. Germany. 2 Member of the Office of Scientific Investigator and member of the IMBIV (Multidisciplinary Institute of Plant Biology: Natl. Univ. of Córdoba-CONICET). Postal address: Museo Botánico [Botanical Museum], Casilla de Correo 495, 5000 Córdoba, Argentina.
=============================================================================== Differential key for the species of Hieronymiella:
1. Whitish (at times somewhat pinkish) perianth with a long tube, equal to or greater than the unwelded part. 1. H. clidanthoides Pax
1'. A very colored perianth, with a short tube, contained between 2 and 8 times in the unwelded part.
2. Fragrant flowers, whitish or yellow; trifid stigma (stigmatic branches between 4 and 6 times longer than they are wide).
3. Yellow perianth, from 5.5 to 6.5 cm in length. Corona almost as long as the perianth, and with appendages that exceed the anthers. Scapes with 4 to 7 flowers. 2. H. tintinensis Hunz. (syn., H. aurea, Ravenna)
3'. Whitish perianth (furthermore, on each perianth segment is a narrow longitudinal greenish stripe, and the ribs are generally /lilácea/[lilac?] or purple), from 3.2 to 5.2 cm in length. Corona that is not quite 2/3 the length of the perianth, and with short appendages that are easily exceeded by the anthers. 3. H. speciosa (R. E. Fries) Hunz.
2'. Unscented reddish-yellowish, or reddish-greenish-purple, flowers; trilobed or barely split stigma, (when they exist, the stigmatic branches are up to 2 times longer than they are wide).
3. Glaucous, pruinose leaves. Perianth tube (from 0.75 to 0.8 cm in length) barely longer than the ovary. Perianth with 3 colors: on the inside of the petals, deep purple at the tip, green in the middle section, whitish at the base, and on the outside of the petals, the same, save that they are a reddish-salmon color at the base. 4. H. pamiana (Stapf) Hunz. (syn., Eustephia pamiana)
3'. Dark-green, non-pruinose leaves. Perianth tube (0.35 to 0.45 cm in length) shorter than the ovary.
4. Perianth with 3 colors: in the 2/3 to 3/4 up from the base, reddish on the outside, and yellowish or pinkish-yellowish on the inside; the remaining part, on the inside and on the outside, a dark-green color, except for the edge which is deep purple.
5. H. marginata (Pax) Hunz.
4'. Perianth with 2 colors: reddish on the outside, between yellowish and orange on the inside.
6. H. argentina (Pax) Hunz. et S. Arroyo-L. (syn., Eustephia argentina, Pax., Eustephiopsis latifolia, R. E. Fries, Eustephia latifolia, (R. E. Fries) Traub, Hieronymiella marginata var. latifolia, (R. E. Fries) Hunz., Hieronymiella latifolia, (R. E. Fries) Di Fulvio et Hunz., Androstephanos tarijensis, Fern. Casas and Lara)
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 17:49:02 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:29:45 -0800
At last spring's IBS symposium here in California, I asked the two guys from Hadeco about Daubenya, and if they ever planned to export bulbs of it to the U.S. like they do with Hippeastrum hybrids. They indicated (and maybe I misunderstood them) that it was too difficult to convert hemisphere's for Daubenya aurea to make it worth their while. However, apparently, as Robin says, they sell them widely throughout South Africa in both the red and the yellow forms. Is anyone going to be there during their next autumn who would be willing to bring back a bunch of them to sell to us?
--Lee Poulsen
IBS Treasurer
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 19:14:48 2002
Message-Id:
From: Patricia Bender
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 18:56:52 -0800
See Paul Christian's bulb list: (Wales, UK)
rareplants.co.uk/daubenya/
Pat Bender
From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:26:05 2002
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20021104211426.00b9dcb0@mailbox2.cts.com>
From: Marguerite English
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:16:57 -0800
I knew they would pull themselves down, and part of the reason for my question was how much space they needed to get to a good blooming depth. The gophers definitely have a field day at my house. I always wonder how the native calochortus avoid them. I do have an 8 inch azalea pot handy, and will go with that.
Thanks so much for your advice!
Marguerite English, Editor 'The Bulb Garden'
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 06:41:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:12:56 -0800
As you must have surmised, there is no single answer to your question. Partly it depends on which species you are working with, and partly it depends on your immediate circumstances. It sounds like you have some experience with different species, and despite all else and the advice from whomever, you will be best off if you use that as your guide.
How do the West Coast species avoid the gophers in situ? I think we can ask - why do they grow in hard clay, when they need good drainage? (the answer being that many of them grow at the edges of steep banks). Hard clay (which gophers do not do so well with) is mostly what is available to them - so they have figured out how to adapt to that and survive ... Also, poor and/or toxic West Coast soils are what is available to them - so they have found a way to adapt to that as well....
Some of the classic works deal with the issue of "why do we find them on adobe, of serpentine and other noxious soils?" - the answer being that they have less competition in such circumstances. But that is also what makes them interesting and challenging to grow in the garden or pot circumstances.
Partly I am getting philosophical. But also this is what makes the bulbs fun.
When I get REALLY philosophical, I start asking myself why bulbs have so much of an easier time in the Cape Province than in Western North America - and yet I've seen the comparative circumstances, and on some level it starts to become obvious. I then tend to pass over the specific circumstances of each, and start to just sit back and enjoy them...
My late husband Jim was totally hooked, he wanted to try to grow EVERYHTHING he saw that he admired, regardless of where and in what circumstances he saw it. He was horticulturally talented, and remarkably successful, for the most part.
Over time, I came to realize that what I GEORGIE wanted was to SEE everything, and to enjoy it for what and where it was. A very different mind-set. I absolutely would not "put down" HIS (or anyone else's) desires; it just wasn't the same as MINE.
It really is a different mind-set. That's to say that it is not intended, and should not be taken as, a "put-down." It's just worth thinking about -----------maybe......
Best wishes ---------------- Georgie
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 17:01:17 2002
Message-Id: <3DC83D22.4800ED30@concentric.net>
From: Ken K
Subject: Pacific BX 13 - Seed mixup?
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:50:26 -0800
Hi all,
I recently received a few packets of seed from BX 13, and I think
there has been a mixup somewhere. In the pack parked #8 (which was
supposed to be Calostemma purpureum seed from Joyce Miller)) there was
a fair quantity of flat, winged black seed, approximately 3/32" in
size. Calostemma seed is a fleshy green berry, similar to
Hymenocallis.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ken Kehl
East S.F. Bay Area, Ca.
USDA Zone 9
-2°C to 38°C
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 19:36:13 2002
Message-Id:
From: Douglas Westfall
Subject: Massonia seeds
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 16:50:21 -0800
Is anyone able to advise me on sowing Massonia seeds?
I know that they want to be sown in sandy mix about this time of the year
here in So Calif.
Should I spread them on top or should I sprinkle a little sand over the top
of the seeds?
Doug Westfall
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 19:36:13 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mark Wilcox
Subject: Hieronymiella aurea & Rhodophiala advena Seedling Update
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:12:34 -0500
Dear Lee and other members,
On Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:29:15 -0800, Lee Poulsen wrote
>First off, I am amazed that you grew the Hieronymiella inside to such
>a large size in such a short time. It's only been about 6-7 months
>since we got seeds for it. The 3 or 4 seedlings I managed to keep
>growing through the summer are still small, spindly, single-leaved
>things, nothing like the strap-leaved giant you show in the photos.
>How did you grow it? What were the daily temperature extremes? What
>kind of soil mix did you use? Any fertilizers?
No one was more surprised with the difference growing indoors made than me! In fact, the seeds weren't floated until a couple weeks after receipt, meaning they started a bit later than most people's. I don't remember exactly when I received them, but my notes show they were floated on 3 April and potted on 8 April. They were from the 3/22 IBS BX. I remember that other people reported germination before it happened here.
The description you give of your seedlings matches the one I had outside in
heat and drought. Both should be good for a dessert plant, I thought.
However, now that the same spindly plant is inside and potted up, it's already pushing up a second leaf without losing the first one. That never happened during the summer.
After achieving germination back in April, I simply put one sprouted seed into a 4-inch pot of Schultz's Professional Potting Soil Plus, which seems to be a lighter mixture than they sold in the 1990s. In the basement I'd guess that summer temps average mid- to high 70s. That falls to low 70s and high 60s in cool to cold weather. It's under a grow light (two 40 watt fluorescent bulbs) that's on a timer to provide 16 hours of light per day. As for fertilizer, I use 1/4 teaspoon of MiracleGro for Roses (18-24-16) to one gallon of water for most waterings, normally watering from the bottom.
So, under moderate temperatures, plentiful moderate light, in light soil that
was allowed to dry out between waterings, and using a small amount of
fertilizer consistently, the plant grew as you saw on the images list.
Would someone else care to pot one up, put it into similar conditions, and see what happens? The fact that the second one here has responded to its changed conditions in just a couple of weeks should mean that others could see similar results relatively quickly. If the idea is to get the plants to blooming size as quickly as possible, this seems to be the way to go.
>Secondly, Steve Putnam managed to get hold of the Kurtziana articles
>that were referenced by Alan Meerow back in March. They are in
>Spanish, and I started a quick attempt at translating them, but don't
>know how good it is (and have had to pause for the last 2-3 months
>because of a new baby and no spare time). I'm sure Alberto Castillo
>could do a superb job if he had the time.
I corresponded a little with Steve after he made a post on the IBS list about
H. aurea earlier this year. At least, I think it was him. The person was in
Delaware. I told him something about the difference in how the plants were
growing then, but things were at an earlier, less dramatic stage at that point.
Lee, very good on your massive translation, though I'm not familiar with all
the botanical terms involved. I've done some translation work as well, but
from French to English. As an idea, even though it's less of a direct
equivalent, you might want to consider the word "fused" in most places where
you have "welded."
Thanks very much for taking the time to write.
Mark Wilcox
Washington, DC
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 18:29:01 2002
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20021105171332.00b9f0d8@mailbox2.cts.com>
From: Marguerite English
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:17:11 -0800
This is an interesting topic to think about. In my Southern California garden, the natives actually grow in decomposed (maybe decomposing?) granite. I do wonder how those gophers get in there, but they can show up with a mound in the middle of our road! Pesky little creatures those.
Your other comments also are thought provoking. My husband is more like you are in the 'like to look, but doesn't necessarily want to grow it' category. I am a 'want to grow it' person. Makes for interesting times, sometimes. Luckily there is room for all of us!
At 1112 PM 11/4/2002 -0800, you wrote
How do the West Coast species avoid the gophers in situ? I think we can ask - why do they grow in hard clay, when they need good drainage? (the answer being that many of them grow at the edges of steep banks). Hard clay (which gophers do not do so well with) is mostly what is available to them - so they have figured out how to adapt to that and survive ... Also, poor and/or toxic West Coast soils are what is available to them - so they have found a way to adapt to that as well....
Marguerite
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 19:36:13 2002
Message-Id:
From: VRean@aol.com
Subject: New E-mail address - PBS Membership Chair
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:53:32 EST
The time has come for me to leave AOL. I now have a new e-mail address: Mumswell@earthlink.net Please use this address in the future.
Mumswell? You may wonder about the origin of the name. Enjoying the British's tradition of naming homes, I wanted to find a name fitting of my new home a few years ago. Soul searching was done; a dog theme, a garden theme? In my mind, I kept returning to the time when I first viewed the land on which the house is built. On that November day, my mother joined me on my trip. We walked the woods and were cautioned to stay away from a water filled hole in the ground by the owners. They had tried to dig a well by hand. Somehow my mother caught her foot as she walked by and dove head first into the cold water of the well. Although at first is was quite scary, mom in her indomitable ways came up sputtering water and even still have her glasses on. We got a ladder and got her out, she dried off, and didn't even feel sore the next day. Although "mum" is rather embarrassed by the episode, the name Mumswell is a tribute to her invi
Vicki Sironen Pacific Bulb Society Membership Chair Baggins and Sadie (the two Toller dogs) The Mumswell Estate Respice finem (Latin for "watch were you are going")
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 21:59:00 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021105184810.01d62390@pop3.midtown.net>
From: Joyce Miller
Subject: Pacific BX 13 - Seed mixup?
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:49:15 -0800
Dear All,
I am embarrassed at my error. I think the seeds could be
Zephyranthes, but then again not. Terribly sorry. Best, Joyce
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 19:36:13 2002
Message-Id: <001901c28544$c14b40c0$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:29:10 -0800
Hi Marguerite --------
In looking over my last reply to you, I find I forgot to say how much I
appreciate the people (like you) who DO grow things. There are so many bulbs
from places I have never been - and probably won't ever get to - and it is a
secondary joy for me to see things I otherwise would never see. But I DO
prefer seeing them in their native habitat, if that is possible.
The value of that came home to Jim during our "whirlwind" (2-1/2 weeks) trip
through South Africa (mostly the Cape Province and the very southern part of
Namibia). When we encountered a Romulea species Jim had been struggling with
for some time, he discovered that the place it was growing was quite damp -
while he had been treating it more like our West Coast bulbs, many of which
will rot if watered when it's hot. Lo and behold, when we returned, he
started watering his Romulea vigorously - with great results. Seeing things
in their natural habitats often saves the effort to "learn by doing" - trial
and error, often with some discouraging losses along the way !
Best wishes ------------------- Georgie
From ???@??? Tue Nov 05 23:24:25 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Hieronymiella aurea & Rhodophiala advena Seedling Update
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:02:05 -0800
Mark,
Thanks for the details about how you are growing the Hieronymiella seedling. I'm going to have to try mine that way.
And thanks for the word 'fused'. I knew welded wasn't the word to use, but it was a placeholder for the correct meaning. I wracked my brain for days trying to think of the right word, and Roget's didn't help me either. Of course fused is the right word.
I don't know the botanical terms either. But that website I listed gives definitions for all those "heavy duty" botanical terms. It's at the Missouri Botanical Gardens website. (And Steve Putnam does live in Delaware.)
Lee Poulsen
PBS Treasurer
From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 06:49:42 2002
Message-Id: <3DC8C3D7.DD1A9B08@bulbargence.com>
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Growing outside the natural habitat
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:25:11 +0100
> Georgie a *crit
I start asking myself why bulbs have so much of an easier time in the Cape Province than in Western North America - and yet I've seen the comparative circumstances, and on some level it starts to become obvious. I then tend to pass over the specific circumstances of each. . .
Thanks for raising this question, which intrigues me for years without
really finding a suitable answer. Some limited places around the méditerranean have similar climatic and geological conditions as the Cape and nevertheless many south African species do not spread with the same ease (mind you, some do Freesia alba, Oxalis pes-caprea etc)
It surely depends on many factors which maintains a given species naturally in its natural habitat such a rainfall patterns, pollinators, some protection from predators (or inapt conditions for them to evolve) and diseases etc etc.
It is a huge interesting subject which merits our attention and helps
enormously to improve growing methods. Georgie, please, go into details to let us know your experience in this matter.
Kind regards
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région Provence/Camargue; (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site http//www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS" 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
EXPEDITION bulbes a terminé fin octobre
(espèces à floraison automnale et printanières sont replantées)
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible janvier
-
From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 06:49:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cameron McMaster"
Subject: Massonia seeds
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:49:10 +0200
Doug
In my experience, Massonia seeds must be covered by some soil, I would say about 3-5 mm cover. I take a stick and scratch a line in the wet soil, then carefully drop the seeds along the line, press them down, and then sprinkle a bit of sand & palm peat (mixed) into the depression that is left along the line. To avoid washing the seeds out when watering, you can dribble water between the rows so that the rows themselves are not touched by water. Once the leaves are about one cm tall the roots should hold them quite firmly in the soil.
Rhoda E. Cape
>Is anyone able to advise me on sowing Massonia seeds?
>I know that they want to be sown in sandy mix about this time of the year
>here in So Calif.
>Should I spread them on top or should I sprinkle a little sand over the top
>of the seeds?
From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 06:49:42 2002
Message-Id: <3DC8D198.86207E7D@bulbargence.com>
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Moles and bulbs in situ (was Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:23:53 +0100
> Georgie a *crit
> How do the West Coast species avoid the gophers in situ? I think we
> can ask - why do they grow in hard clay, when they need good drainage?
> (the answer being that many of them grow at the edges of steep banks).
> Hard clay (which gophers do not do so well with) is mostly what is
> available to them - so they have figured out how to adapt to that and
> survive ... Also, poor and/or toxic West Coast soils are what is
> available to them - so they have found a way to adapt to that as well....
Georgie,
I have read your posting with much interest and I very much appreaciate your approach. By observing the bulbs (and their ennemis) in the natural context we can learn a lot about how to grow and to protect. The more I grow bulbs in the ideal soil conditions the more moles I attract. Only those who can pull them down to sufficient depths and those genera with an inacceptable taste survive naturally. Gopher (or moles) detest gravelly, stony and claysoils. Because I cannot move the nursery to these soil types we have to live with our sandy loam (and moles). By carefully observing their behaviour (heart treaking
experience) They only tunnel horizonally (between 5-15cm) and always enter by the side of a raised bed.They come OUT vertically sometimes, but never go down vertically. Surrounding a raised bed with 30cm of wirenetting helps a lot (but on top of that we plant the more valuable bulbs in wire netting cages)
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région Provence/Camargue; (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site http//www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS" 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
EXPEDITION bulbes a terminé fin octobre
(espèces à floraison automnale et printanières sont replantées)
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) est disponible janvier
-
From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 06:49:43 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 13: Calostemma
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 06:29:40 -0400
Dear All,
Sorry for the mixup. For those of you who received the incorrectly
labeled calostemma seed, please keep whatever seed that is, and I will send
some of the real thing in the near future.
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 16:24:01 2002
Message-Id: <3DC98817.FF0457CC@worldnet.att.net>
From: John Bryan
Subject: Growing outside the natural habitat
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:22:31 -0800
Dear Lauw
Some factors which no doubt play a part, are the qualities of light found in the southern hemisphere, you can get sun burnt even on cloudy days, differentiation of temperatures between day and night, less differentiation or more, depending on location, presence of absence of soil flora and bacteria. Depending on the species, I feel all of these have to be considered. One other factor which I often feel is overlooked, is the quality of the water supplied. I do not know the exact chemical formulae of the water however the light factor might play a role here, and in the northern hemisphere there is so much pollution it must also play a role. If pure distilled water is used, to avoid the pollution, it might also change the content of the rain water, soil
water etc..
Indeed an interesting question, however logic dictates, at least to me,
that in such natural occurring features the answers would be found.
Cheers, John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 16:24:01 2002
Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20021106151412.00b9a310@mailbox2.cts.com>
From: Marguerite English
Subject: Brodiaea and Calochortus
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:15:18 -0800
Me too! I live in one native habitat, so that's quite nice. I'm working on a web page of all the plants in my valley, but I'm not very close to finished, yet. It will happen, though.
At 0729 PM 11/5/2002 -0800, you wrote
secondary joy for me to see things I otherwise would never see. But I DO
prefer seeing them in their native habitat, if that is possible.
Marguerite
From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 19:26:41 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:13:50 -0800
See Paul Christian's bulb list (Wales, UK)
www.rareplants.co.uk/daubenya/
Pat Bender
I was going to mention Paul Christian's list, because even though his prices are really expensive, at least he has them and they're northern hemisphere grown. But when I go to his latest catalog listings, he isn't listing them in the 2002 catalog pages. (Even though you can apparently go directly to the Daubenya page if you know the URL separately.) If you'll notice, the Daubenya page hasn't been updated since November of 2000. So I don't know if you can purchase them this year.
--
--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10
Pacific Bulb Society - Treasurer
wpoulsen@pacbell.net
From ???@??? Fri Nov 08 07:26:49 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021108081050.00b06a80@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:18:35 -0500
Hi all,
Does Paul Christian raise all his bulbs himself? I got some Haemanthus from him that tried to grow on the Southern Hemisphere calendar, and I just assumed he imported them from RSA for resale.
If anyone tries to import some Daubenya from Hadeco, I'd be interested in getting a few in the same order. It doesn't matter to me if Daubenya want to grow here in our summer, as I'd have them in pots anyway, and would just keep them under lights indoors or in the greenhouse, depending on when they wanted to grow.
Regards,
Jim
************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Fri Nov 08 07:26:49 2002
Message-Id: <014a01c2872c$f496a7a0$6501a8c0@John>
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:44:26 -0500
I'm sure he will be the first to correct me if this is inaccurate - but from
what I know he certainly imports/buys in a large proportion of his bulbs for
immediate resale.
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive
Exton
Pennsylvania 19341 USA
610 594 9232 - phone
801 327 1266 - fax
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Fri Nov 08 08:55:19 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021108081918.009229b0@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Daubenya comments
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:19:18 -0800
Jim Shields asked,
>Does Paul Christian raise all his bulbs himself? I got some Haemanthus
>from him that tried to grow on the Southern Hemisphere calendar, and I just
>assumed he imported them from RSA for resale.
No, he doesn't, though he grows many of them. Some are Dutch-grown, some
from China, so perhaps some are from S. Africa too.
I have grown Daubenya from seed with no difficulty. I know this is not
really the same mind-set as many bulb fanciers have (probably a good thing
for those of us who sell bulbs!), but I do recommend starting with seed
whenever possible. Not only does it prevent difficulties with annual
cycles, it also limits the introduction of pests and diseases.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
From ???@??? Fri Nov 08 15:53:13 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021108154523.00bf19b0@mail.mcn.org>
From: "peter maynard" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner >)
Subject: Daubenya
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:45:53 -0800
With all the chat about this genus (monotypic ?) I can tell you all that here, under glass protection, it comes readily from imported seed and flowers in the third year after germination so this should be no problem for the "youngsters" among us, further they come happily through dormancy.
I have now two pots, each with about 5 bulbs, one has just finished, the other has a visible bud cluster inside the procumbent leaves and should make it up in the next month. The time is not predictable since our daylight is now fading and this seems to be an important factor. I have never set seed here even with the aid of grandchildren's paint brushes so will probably be requesting more from SA soon. My only beef is that both are the red flowered form and I would like to see the yellow!
Peter.Maynard@btinternet
S.E. England Zone 8 Coastal Plain
natales grate numeras
From ???@??? Fri Nov 08 16:25:39 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021108155332.00c2e4c0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Daubenya & Oxalis comment
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:08:05 -0800
Dear Peter,
I am really interested that one of your Daubenya's has just finished. Last year when I was in South Africa Rod and Rachel took us to a place where it was flowering in the wild in a cold area of South Africa near Middlepos. That was about the third week in August and you say in S. E. England one pot has just finished. If you adjust for hemispheres I'd think it would bloom in Feb. Maybe all the rain in South Africa last year delayed the bloom. Could you expound upon your light theories? What is the weather like in the fall in S.E. England? It is always fascinating to figure out what factors initiate bloom. Mine have not broken dormancy (some I inherited from Jim Robinett) so I guess they aren't going to appear this year. I have sowed new seed and have my fingers crossed.
Saying that, I saw a bud on Oxalis flava today. I had mentioned before that I could never get this one to bloom and gave some to Uli in Germanay and Lauw in France and they both reported it bloomed nicely for them. We had some nice warm sunny weather in Northern California in late October and early November and now are in our winter storm pattern later than usual. So perhaps it was that extended warmer period with the additional sunshine that did the trick.
Mary Sue
Mary Sue Ittner
California's North Coast
Wet mild winters with occasional frost
Dry mild summers
From ???@??? Fri Nov 08 17:13:11 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Flowering Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus in a year
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:12:25 -0800
Just wanted to add to Mary Sue's list of quick flowering seeds, if this one hasn't already been mentioned before.
I just noticed a few days ago, before our first rains of the new rainy season began, that my seedling pot of Cyrtanthus brachyscyphus not only has sent up a scape, it was about to bloom. The label says it's from seed from Mary Sue herself that I planted in Sept. of 2001. So it's just a little over a year from sowing to first flower.
--
--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10
Pacific Bulb Society - Treasurer
wpoulsen@pacbell.net
From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 22:12:45 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Silverhill Seeds"
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:37:28 +0200
Dear Robin Some replies to a few comments. Firstly in the latest IBSA Bulletin (which should be in the post now), Alison van der MErwe has written another article summarising the findings in Massonieae in her PhD thesis. I still find it difficult to sort out what is what, but perhaps I need to concentrate on it!
Secondly it is Hadeco who brought out Daubenya bulbs which they produced in tissue culture. They grow well and several IBSA members showed pots of flowering plants this spring. Quite why they have not marketed them elsewhere, I am not sure.
The reason why Daubenya seed is often not what it should be is that in their habitat, the plants grow completely mixed up with Polyxenas and what used to be Neobakerias. When in flower, all is well, but when in seed, it is extremely difficult to know which is which. We collected seeds yesterday, and hopefully this year we have the right species. The red flowering plants still had dried petals attached to the seed pods, so we ignored anything that wasn't red! The yellow flowered plants grow in an area that is more or less free of contaminating look-alikes, so I think that they are OK. So maybe this is the year to try seeds!!
Regards
Rachel Saunders Cape Town
From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 22:12:45 2002
Message-Id: <01de01c287df$22437c20$0cdf1ac4@saunders>
From: "Silverhill Seeds"
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:58:36 +0200
I think that Paul Christian certainly buys some bulbs, and I have a feeling
that he buys all of them in fact. Certainly he doesn't buy seed from us,
and I don't know that he has growing facilities.
Regards
Rachel Saunders
Cape Town
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 09:38:34 2002
Message-Id: <01cd01c288db$6e35f340$6501a8c0@John>
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: [Bulbs_Images] Crocus nudiflorus - Various Illuminations
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:05:50 -0500
Mark,
There are a few named varieties of C. speciosus, but this doesn't obviously
correspond to any I know. Also, flower color and size can vary a lot
depending upon growing conditions. Cathy Craig is correct that C.
nudiflorus does indeed build up into nice colonies relatively quickly.
I already answered your point two privately.
Within around 24 hours I should have an update ready to upload to my web
site. This will feature several hundred new images of fall-blooming bulbs,
including a lot of crocus (inc. speciosus and nudiflorus). I'll let you
know when it is up and running.
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive
Exton
Pennsylvania 19341 USA
610 594 9232 - phone
801 327 1266 - fax
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 09:38:34 2002
Message-Id:
From: Antennaria@aol.com
Subject: Brodiaea, Calochortus, and Triteleia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:19:06 EST
>From the last Robinett Bulb Catalog (1999) I ordered a number of western Allium, Brodiaea, Triteleia, and as an experiment one Calochortus. Concerned about growing these dryland bulbs here in northeastern USA, I made a mildly sloped bed, of a sandy mix ontop of our typical heavy, rocky clay. Bulbs were planted so that they were in contact with the heavy clay, with free-draining sandy mix on top. The bed is not intentionally watered in summer, but does get watered by an occasional errant sprinker and erratic summer downpours in our frequent thunderstorms.
The bulbs have flowered well in those few years, some prospering better than
others, a few are dwindling as well. The most gorgeous of all is Triteleia bridgesii, with immense umbels of purple, white-centered flared tubes in June and July on 16" tall stems. The photo that I previously posted on my website
doesn't give a good sense of the umbel size (over 10" across!, 25 cm), so I
posted a new photo taken this past summer in which I'm holding the scape (both to steady the umbel in a stiff breeze, and to add scale). The photo can be seen at
http//www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Misc/im_Trit_bridgesii2002.htm
...another photo available at
http//www.plantbuzz.com/RockGard/Misc/im_Trit_bridgesii.htm
Also successful, but much more modest in flower have been Brodiaea stellaris,
purdyi, Triteleia ixioides, hyacinthina, and laxa. The two Brodiaea species
are tiny, almost inconspicuous, but provide a long season of purple stars July through August, on stems just a few inches above ground level. This past spring Calochortus uniflorus was spreading with new sprouts, apparently stoloniferous, but something likes to eat the foliage, so I put PVC pipe fittings around the shoots as a protective collar. I did manage to see 3-4 blooms out of the dozen or more buds that were first there. Accordingly to Jim Robinett, it is "perhaps the easiest of the Calochortus to grow". I'm encouraged to possibly try a few more Calochortus species.
My garden is all the richer with these much too infrequently cultivated bulbs.
Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States
antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5
==============================================
>> web site under construction - http//www.PlantBuzz.com <<
alliums, bulbs, penstemons, hardy hibiscus, western
american alpines, iris, plants of all types!
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 09:56:58 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021110092444.0178f9a8@pop3.midtown.net>
From: Joyce Miller
Subject: Is Strumaria a hypogeal germinator
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:36:15 -0800
Hi,
I have two pots sown with Strumaria seeds. It seemed there was no germination, but recently a watering revealed a tiny bulb with no cotyledon. Could it be a hypogeal germinator?
Kind regards, Joyce Miller
Joyce E. Miller mailtoonager@midtown.net
Zone USDA 9A Summer highs 100+degrees F for several to many days. Winter lows 27 degrees F
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 12:20:32 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021110100008.00c47ba0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Brodiaea, Calochortus, and Triteleia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:18:29 -0800
Dear Mark and all,
I always love to hear someone talk about Brodiaea and Triteleia and it is nice to hear that Mark has had success with some of these in a colder climate with summer rainfall too. I leave out Calochortus since it is so striking that it gets talked about a lot not that I don't like hearing about it too. Mark demonstrates that with careful planning you can be successful. I able hoping Triteleia, Brodiaea, and Dichelostemma will be the focus of the topic of the week. At least that will be my suggestion to myself. Triteleia bridgesii is a favorite of mine too, but it blooms much earlier here, in May and June. Thanks for giving us a place to see it.
Northwest Natives is a source of wild collected seeds. A careful description of where the seeds are found is included. It would seem it would make it easier to pick which seeds of a species to grow in a colder area. But you never know unless you try. I have a dim memory and hopefully Georgie will correct me if I am wrong, that Jim Robinett told me that sometimes mountain collected seed of some species did better than coast collected seed surprising him. From my attempts to sort these out I wrote the following about Triteleia laxa. "Triteleia laxa commonly known as wally basket or Ithuriel's spear is found between 0 and 4600 feet (0 to 1500 meters) in a variety of habitats such as mixed evergreen forests, grassland, foothill woodland, and chaparral throughout much of California and into Oregon. It is found on slopes, but also on flats that are sometimes very wet in spring, often in heavy soils. The funnel-shaped flowers vary considerably in color (from blue, to violet and purple, occasionally white) and size in different habitats." So it would appear that seed from one location might do very well in a colder climate and not seed from another.
Hopefully today I will be able to send more seed of some of the "open-pollinated" California geophytes I grow to the BX and some of you can try them.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 18:03:43 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Robin Attrill"
Subject: Daubenya flowering season and Oxalis flava
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 23:56:50 -0000
Mary Sue et al,
I suspect the dramatically earlier flowering season of Daubenya aurea in the UK (typically Nov - Jan) rather than the predicted February is most probably due to accelerated growth development due to far higher temperatures than those in habitat. Whilst light levels may influence the flowering time once growth has initiated, the plants in the UK will be most unlikely (under natural conditions) to experience the high light levels received by the plants in native habitat. In consequence the earlier flowering is frequently (but not always) accompanied by a degree of etiolation.
Regarding Oxalis flava, the various clones/forms in cultivation vary enormously in productivity of bloom. Some flower freely - the yellow form distributed by Monocot Nursery is an example - whereas others have a tendency to generate a large number of small daughter bulbs and hence foliage. I have found that deep planting and as long a growing season as possible, which tends to produce larger bulbs, gives the best results in terms of the following seasons flowers.
regards
Robin
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 18:03:43 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021110185301.00a7d320@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Brodiaea, Calochortus, and Triteleia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:03:42 -0500
Hi all,
I have grown a few of these outdoors in the ground for a couple years now. I have Calochortus from the commercial Dutch bulb catalogs that seem to be coming back and blooming. It is worth noting that out of a dozen or two planted together in a loosely spaced clump, only a handful of each now survive. But C. luteus 'Golden Orb', C. superbus, and one other, perhaps C. venustus, are surviving in much reduced numbers.
I got seeds of C. macrocarpus from Ron Ratko on several occasions. I killed a lot learning how to germinate them, and then killed some learning how to get them through winter and through summer. Out of hundreds of seeds planted and dozens of first-year seedlings obtained, a handful of bulbs survive. The need to be cold in winter -- cold as outdoor in their pots here in Indiana or at least in a coldframe. I don't know if I'll ever live to see one of the C. macrocarpus bloom here, but I keep trying. The few survivors I could find in my seedling pots are in my new rock garden.
I bought Brodiaea and Triteleia bulbs from Jim Robinett just before he stopped selling, the hardiest strains he had at the time. They have all survived, bloomed, and set seed, for the most part. Brodiaea californica and purdyi; Trieteleia ixiodes 'Scabra', T. hyacinthina 'Modoc' and T. (or B.?) bridgesii. they have done so well that I have not bothered to collect and grow on any of the abundant seeds each summer. Ought I to have done that? Maybe next year, if it matters.
I have T. dudleyi from Jane McGary and T. laxa 'Queen Fabiola' from any of the numerous commecial sources. The dudleyi are relatively new, but the 'Queen Fabiola' have just gone on living and blooming for several years.
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 18:03:43 2002
Message-Id: <000901c28917$88e29900$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Polyxena identification and Daubenya comments
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:15:31 -0800
I agree with Rachel. Paul Christian bought a number of bulbs from Jim each
year, but never bought seed from us. It's possible he propagated materials
directly from the bulbs, but I don't think he ever grew his own from
scratch.
------------ Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 21:12:13 2002
Message-Id: <000b01c2892c$5ee00060$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea, Calochortus, and Triteleia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:44:40 -0800
I've been out of town for a few days, for a short trip to "the Big City"
(Portland). How nice it was to come back and find so many references to Jim
Robinett ! One of his few regrets in life was starting so late with
horticulture he didn't have time enough to do a lot of what he wanted to do.
It's very gratifying to see that, nevertheless, his work is remembered.
To Jim Shields - it is indeed Triteleia bridgesii (not Brodiaea). The DNA
studies recently done by Chris Pires at Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison suggest
strongly that while (as has been assumed by botanists for years) Brodiaea
and Dichelostemma are closely related, Triteleia is considerably more
distant, though still a "cousin." If you collect and grow on the seeds your
Triteleias set, you may find some hybrids among them, which might produce
interesting flowers. T. laxa routinely hybridizes with T. hyacinthina in the
lower norther Sierra foothills. Hybrids between B. californica and B. purdyi
are less likely.
Regarding the various factors that impact bulb growth in different places, I
think all the things mentioned enter the equation. Obviously it's important
to know what are the moisture preferences of any given species, as well as
sun -vs- shade, cool -vs- heat, pH, quality of water, and the like. Jim was
fortunate enough to be growing his bulbs on local rainfall (about 30-35
inches a year where we were, almost all between October and April), and
where necessary, supplemented with our own well water, from a well that was
considerably deeper than any of our neighbors. It may thus have been less
polluted than the water available to many people, especially in the Northern
Hemisphere. I am aware of a few growers who are working seriously with
microrhiza (those little critters that inhabit the soil), and I'm impressed
with what I've heard about the results they are achieving.
I'll finish this in a second e-mail, as I understanding some members have
trouble receiving long e-mails. ---------------- Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 21:12:13 2002
Message-Id: <001101c2892d$84d54c20$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Growing outside the natural habitat
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:52:15 -0800
To Lauw de Jager -------
Jim raised all his commercial bulbs, always from seed, in free-standing
redwood boxes he built himself, or in large plastic bins with numerous small
holes drilled in their bottoms - all at least 8 inches deep; and all covered
with 1-inch "chicken wire" to keep the gophers out. His growing medium was
pretty standard - 1/2 quality potting soil, 1/8 horticultural sand, 1/8
vermiculite, 1/8 perlite, and 1/8 peat moss. Each batch received a generous
handful of bone meal as well. He fertilized routinely every 2 to 3 weeks
with half-strength Miracle-Grow during a species' growing season; and he
dried back each species when its leaves began to yellow. Bubls that were
inclined to resent too much heat received a thin dressing of light-colored
gravel. Bins and boxes of the most tender bulbs were sunk part-way into a
large gravel bed for protection. All were grown outside, on a
northeast-facing, gentle-to-moderate slope, with large trees to the west to
protect them from the worst of the hot afternoon sun. Though we averaged 10
to 20 nights of frost each winter, the slope itself provided some
protection, as the cold air drained downhill and pooled well below our
property. In fact, after a night of frost, we could see exactly how the cold
air had flower downhill over and beyond our property, from the frost
patterns. In the 17 years we lived there, there was only one hard freeze,
with 5 nights in a rown down to 17 degrees F. and daytime temperatures never
above freezing. Jim lost a fair number of bulbs in the process, but most of
them survived.
The bulbs he grew "for pleasure" were grown in raised beds on the hillside,
12 to 24 inches deep, lined with 1/2-inch hardware cloth; he had discovered
that the gophers could squeeze through chicken wire bottoms, even though
they never seemed to climb through the chicken wire box and bin covers he
used. Otherwise, "pleasure" bulbs received pretty much the same treatment as
his commercial bulbs.
Let me know if you have more questions ---------- Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 21:12:13 2002
Message-Id: <001901c2892e$4f8348a0$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea, Calochortus, and Triteleia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:58:37 -0800
To Mary Sue -
Yes, Jim found that with Allium, Brodiaea, Dichelostemma, Triteleia,
Calochortus, and "wet-growing" Lilium, he had much better luck using seeds
from the middle-altitude Sierra foothills in the north and from the North
Coast Ranges, and from the mid-to-higher altitude Sierra foothills in the
south. He had more difficulty with the Erythronium, Fritillaria, Trillium,
and the "dry-growing" Lilium, and, with a few exceptions, with species from
the South Coast Ranges, unable to produced what could be called commercial
quantities, regardless of exactly where and at what altitude the seeds had
been collected. I don't think he ever hit upon exactly what the differences
were; he just accepted the results, and happily enjoyed what grew well for
him.
Your note on T. laxa is quite nice, but I am not sure that this species
grows into Oregon, at least not in any appreciable populations. I don't
think Jim and I ever found it "across the border to the north." T. bridgesii
does grow in Oregon, of course, together with a few other Triteleia species.
All my best --------------- Georgie
From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 07:05:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 15
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 06:10:14 -0400
Dear All,
The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for
sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me
PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 15" in the subject line.
Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify
quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system.
When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a
statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS
treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class
postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address
too, in case I don't already have it.
Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of
the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future
offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com
If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send
clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA,
18928, USA.
OFFERINGS:
Pacific BX 15:
From Lee Poulsen:
1. Seed of Calostemma purpurea (limited quantities)
2. Seed of Nerine sarniensis, scarlet (limited quantities)
3. Bulbs of Zephryanthes 'Ajax' (limited quantities)
4. Bulbs of Zephyranthes 'LaBuffarosea'
From Dell Sherk:
5. Offsets of mixed Hymenocallis (Ismene) cvs including narcissiflora,
'Sulphur Queen' and 'Advance'
6. Small clumps of Polianthes tuberosa, mostly single.
I grow both of these outside (Zone 6) in warm weather and use them as cut
flowers. The Hymenocallis bloom in early summer and the tuberoses in the
late summer. Both like much light, heat, and water, and I have had success
giving them a drink of manure tea several times during the summer. I dig
them after they have been hit by frost in autumn and store them dry till
next May. Both are highly fragrant.
From Charles Hardman:
SEED:
7. Lapeirousia enigmata
8. Moraea pavonia lutea
9. Moraea thompsonii, tiny plant
10. Moraea villosa
11. Moraea sp.
12. Moraea polyanthos (formerly Homeria lilacina)
Thank you, Lee and Charles !!
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 15:34:41 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Major update to The Edgewood Garden website
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:28:21 -0500
Please forgive the cross-posting to multiple lists - but there is something of interest to members of all these groups in my recent web-site update (http://www.johnlonsdale.net). Should you have any comments of general interest, I'd be very grateful if you would post them to each of the relevant lists.
In this update, 234 images have been added. In the main they are fall 'bulbs' (mainly Cyclamen and Crocus, also Allium, Galanthus, Iris, Narcissus, Nothoscordum, Scilla, Spiranthes and Sternbergia) but also included are a number of shots of fall foliage and other 'odds and sods' like the making of a new Trillium bed and my Onco Iris bed after emptying it and dividing/replanting the lot.
Highlights include:- Crocus vallicola, moabiticus, hermoneus, tournefortii hybrids, several forms of goulimyi, hadriaticus and pallasii, serotinus 'El Torcal'.....Cyclamen graecum ssp. anatolicum and ssp. graecum leaves, lovely pictures of several forms of intaminatum and cilicium, and hederifolium in the garden..... and last but not least, Nothoscordum montevidense
Please note - the update is available via the 'Latest Update' link on my home page but has not yet been incorporated into the main Plant Galleries. I'll do this in the next few days. You can access the update directly by clicking on: http://www.johnlonsdale.net/Updates/gallery.asp?catview=Latest_Updates
The above link takes you directly to the first page of thumbnails. J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 19:55:32 2002
Message-Id:
From: TGlavich@aol.com
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:34:43 EST
In Southern California we had our first significant rain of the year last weekend, with a little about 3 inches in 2 days, at least where I live. I start about 200 pots of seedlings each fall, using plastic bag mini-greenhouses. The bags are sealed and more or less vapor tight. The potting mix is saturated, or close to it. Most of the seeds were planted in late September to early October, and germination of many was in the first two weeks, but there were still about 100 slow and erratic germinators sitting around at the start of the weekend, with germination rates of three or four per week.
By the end of the weekend I had about 20 new germinations, and a half dozen or so since. An Arum Palestrinum tuber from Telos also started significant active growth at the same time, still in a sealed plastic bag.
Temperatures are about the same, we've had warmer and colder before, day length isn't much of a factor. The bags prevent any significant water exchange with the outside air. The Arum tuber started in a plastic bag in my house, the seeds in the garage.
The only thing I can think of is the sustained change in barometric pressure? Any other ideas? Does anyone else see the same kind of behavior?
Tom
From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 20:53:22 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:14:57 -0800
Dear Tom,
For the past several years I have noticed a lot of things coming up after rain and think you are probably on to something. I have thought of it as a trigger for some species. Most of my seedlings from last year have been watered several times and there were only a few showing signs of life. I was wondering if maybe they had not survived their first dormancy. After our first good rain Wednesday night I counted quite a few that were up and more every day since then so obviously I just need to be patient. I am way behind you in seed germination. My first seeds just started coming up over the weekend. Most are in my greenhouse so weren't rained on. Maybe it was just time for them to come up. But I expect the weather was a factor.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 20:24:10 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:18:48 -0800
My arum palestrinum tuber burst into growth on my potting bench a week or two ago. I finally managed to get it into a pot.
We had 1.5 in of rain and it is about the only significant rain we've had here in about 13 months.
Cathy Craig President PBSMaritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 07:29:59 2002
Message-Id: <008b01c28ae6$b4f8a360$0500a8c0@main>
From: "Ixia"
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:31:39 +1100
Tom,
I am of the same opinion here in Oz that Barometric Pressure has a great bearing on germination as I have noticed the same effect with seed here. We had a discussion one time about Habranthus and I believe it is the same thing that promotes flowering as they certainly flower well here after a nice drop of rain.
regards,
Bill Richardson
Gippsland
Australia
8-30 c. Lovely days of Spring. Water restrictions here.
Ixia site http//www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia
Suite 101 site http//suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 07:29:59 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20021113063021.009f3720@mail.earthlink.net>
From: Vicki
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 06:35:10 -0800
To track the weather and correlate it to plant performance, do you have a home weather station, or do you just have a good memory? I'm toying with the idea of getting a home weather station that downloads into my computer. I'm just not sure I'll actually tie plant performance and all the factors of weather together. I might just get data overload.
Vicki Sironen
PBS Membership Chair
Preston, WA
zone 7, about 60 inches of rain each year
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 11:41:43 2002
Message-Id: <3DD292B0.AA3250E8@worldnet.att.net>
From: John Bryan
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:58:08 -0800
Dear Mary Sue
In the old days, back in the 40's, we used to save rain water in
cisterns, barrels etc., and used this on our plants. I have not seen an
analysis on the qualities of our drinking water compared with rain
water, but given it is treated, chemicals added, I think it possible
germination and/or growth inhibiting chemicals are to be found in our
drinking water. Your observations regarding growth after rains, even
when plants have been watered, could perhaps be simply due to this.
Cheers, John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 11:41:43 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:02:39 -0800
The chemists in the peanut gallery can correct me if I'm wrong, but I
remember hearing there is O2 (oxygen dioxide) in rain water where there is
little of this in tap water.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 13:58:02 2002
Message-Id:
From:
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:34:18 -0800
Hum.
A chlorine residual is maintained in almost public water systems and most add
fluoride.
Other chemicals are added to help remove "contaminates" (many naturally
occuring) from the water. Without going into a long explaination and boring
everyone, generally these "other chemical" would help bring the water closer
to rainwater in chemical make-up.
Vicki Sironen
PBS Membership Chair
Preston, WA
zone 7
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 15:00:37 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Boyce Tankersley"
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:22:35 -0600
Hmmm. Aren't fluoride and chlorine added to drinking water because in low levels they kill bacteria, etc. but are not toxic to larger organisms like humans and animals. I believe Dr. Ed McWilliams conducted some research at TAMU in the early 80's that showed a reduction in rooting of Coleus with increasing salt levels. If I remember correctly, he used sodium chloride as the salt. The assumption was the sodium was the culprit but perhaps chlorine also has a negative effect. The point being, perhaps even low levels of chlorine have a negative effect on germination of some geophytes. This would not explain the germination in the miniature greenhouses in So. Cal. however. At any rate, sounds like 2 great thesis for graduate students to follow up on .. the effect of barometric pressure or the effect of low levels of chlorine and fluoride on germination of geophytes.
Boyce Tankersley
btankers@chicagobotanic.org
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 15:45:42 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021113182932.00b12130@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:46:09 -0500
Hi Boyce,
I didn't realize you were a closet chemist! (;-) The chlorine in the water treatment chemicals is very different from that in sodium chloride (common table salt). The chlorination compounds for killing bacteria in drinking water are very reactive, and we used to use essentially the same stuff as Clorox (tm). Now they tend to use more stable substances that are also quit reactive, called N-chloramines.
Chlorination is done at the parts per million level (as far as I can remember from 50 yrs ago!). Sodium chloride is unreactive, and becomes a problem for plants at the parts per thousand level. Think of sea water. Too much sodium chloride is bad for you, too little is also bad for you. People have surmised that the ideal level of sodium chloride for living organisms is the level that was in the primordial oceans of this planet when our one-celled ancestors were beginning to evolve.
Fluoride is even more unreactive than chloride in water, but in biological systems it gets used in places where it can sabotage metabolism Chemically unreactive but biochemically reactive. Fluoride compounds are used in public water supplies at (as far as I can remember) the parts per billion level, and solely to prevent tooth decay in humans who drink the water.
In college, I worked summers in the laboratories of our local water department in my hometown. That was a looooonnng time ago! Decimal points may all have to be shifted a bit to the right or left, but the relative order will stay the same.
Jim Shields,
closet chemist leaning out of the peanut gallery
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 18:10:34 2002
Message-Id: <54179C6B.6F012579.007B69A6@aol.com>
From: TGlavich@aol.com
Subject: Rain and Germination
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:17:22 -0500
I have found that using tap water results in a lower and slower growth of algae on the top of the seedling mix. I've tried bottled water and straight tap water in simultaneous plantings, and have better results (less algae and more germination survivors with tap)
Tom
From ???@??? Thu Nov 14 14:38:41 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021114143824.00a81ea0@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Listings of sources
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:48:13 -0500
Dear all,
Please forgive the cross-posting, but I am updating a list of mail-order vendors of bulbs, corms, tubers, rhizomes, and seeds as well as of honorary bulbs like Clivia, that I maintain in the Great Lakes Bulb Society web site, URL = http//www.shieldsgardens.com/GLOVBulbs/SOURCES.html I want to keep this listing up to date and as complete as possible.
If you are already included in that list, please check your entry to make sure that your information is up to date. If you find that you are not already in the list, and you sell bulbs, clivias, corms, tubers, and/or seeds by mail order, then I will be happy to add you to the listing.
I would like the following information
Business name
contact person's name
Postal address
City, State/Province, Zipcode (or European equivalents)
Country
Telephone (with international country code)
Fax number (with international country code)
E-mail address
WWW address if you have a web presence
Do you export?
Do you accept credit cards (which ones?)
and finally
A line or two of explanation of what plants you specialize in
Send it to me and I'll get it added to the list.
Jim Shields
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 13:08:31 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021115131724.00a804e0@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Nerine breeding
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:41:53 -0500
Hi all,
I have been observing the seedlings as my seeds from the cross Nerine [bowdenii wellsii X krigei] have sprouted. I note that the first leaves, as they start to get longer than about an inch or so, are developing the longitudinal spiral twist characteristic of N. krigei. The young seedlings of the cross I did a year ago, N. [filifolia X krigei], also showed this trait. Seedlings of N. krigei itself show the same trait but in a more pronounced way. Seedlings of N. filifolia do not seem to show it.
Seedlings from seed of N. bowdenii from Rhoda & Cameron McMaster's "The Croft Nursery" are showing leaves that are straight and quite a bit wider than these from Nerine [bowdenii wellsii X krigei], but they are also 5 months older at this point.
I had been warned that some bowdenii clones are parthenogenic, and that I might be getting just apomictic seeds from my cross. After all, the pollen of N. krigei that I used had been in my freezer for over a year. I'm pretty confident now that I'm getting what I wanted. This is quite encouraging.
Also encouraging are two scapes coming up on bulbs of Aad Koen's hardy bowdenii clone. I'm still mulling over what to put on these flowers when they open N. krigei? N. bowdenii wellsii? N. filifolia? I also have seeds germinating from this past month of N. [filifolia X bowdenii wellsii]; if this cross is good, the leaves of these seedlings should be significantly broader than those of filifolia by this time next year.
N. 'Manina' bulbs have not so far shown any signs of blooming. I believe it is a near-white flower that ages to a pinkish color. Does anyone know if it is fertile? I can't remember who commented on it awhile back. It's a moot point until it shows some signs of blooming anyway.
A pot of N. undulata is sending up one scape; this is quite a bit earlier than usual, although I'm, not sure the word "usual" is applicable to nerine blooming times. Beck Heath mentioned once that they had a clump of N. undulata that grew and bloomed right outside their office window, in Virginia. Maybe I'll try killing a few undulata outdoors here some year.
It is such a joy to have too many choices available! Most often in the past, my Nerine breeding has been limited by what particular variety had a scape up!
I'm looking forward to the germination of the seeds from N. 'E.B. Anderson' that Uli Urban kindly sent to me, and to the growth of bulbs that may be from Tony Norris' original Drakensberg collections 20 years ago.
Since one Clivia is showing a scape starting already, I think my Nerine season may overlap the start of my Clivia season in the greenhouse. It could be a delightful Christmas season, whether Santa Claus comes here or not.
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Sat Nov 16 19:22:21 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021116184710.00ac2ae0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Gladiolus and their pollinators
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:10:31 -0800
Dear All,
There is a really interesting article in the Oct-Dec issue of Pacific Horticulture entitled, "Radiation and Floral Adaptation in Gladiolus" written by Peter Goldblatt and John Manning complete with five color photographs. In the article the authors describe many of the different characteristics of the flowers of different species in Southern Africa and describe how their flowers attract many of the different pollinators butterflies, long-proboscid flies, moths, sunbirds and bees. They speculate that because many of the flowers are in bloom at the same time and pollinated by bees and there wouldn't be enough bees that the species with the most striking flowers or distinctive shapes, colors, or scents would be the ones most likely to be visited (bees pollinate about 55% of the species). As for the others, floral diversity is not so important and they must conform to the characteristic pattern that draws the pollinators to them which can be shape of the flower or scent for example.
When I read an article like this one I always wonder about whether new pollinators will discover these flowers when we plant them in our gardens in another country. Blooming today in my garden was Gladiolus priorii. Last week I spied one last Gladiolus carmineus in bloom which means I have had flowers off and on of that species since late August. I expect it must have quite a few pollinators here in northern California because I always have abundant seed and at the same time that flower was blooming seed pods were splitting open.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 09:26:22 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021116212222.00ac3ba0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:07:29 -0800
Dear All,
Thank you to all the people who wrote to me and suggested topics for the topic of the week. I will continue to accept nominations so it is not too late to write me with your suggestions. mailtomsittner@mcn.org One person suggested that we might want to discuss some topics for more than a week so people will have a chance to digest all the ideas and give those who might be busy at the time an opportunity to add their knowledge later.
There are a few suggestions that are really just a specific question and not really a topic. Maybe I'll do a week where I ask one of those questions each day or maybe I can try to put some of these together, but also want to remind everyone that if you have a question you do not have to wait for it to become a topic to ask it. Some of you gave me ideas that we can all participate in that won't require an introduction which will be a big help for me. A few of you told me what you'd be willing to introduce which I also appreciate.
I heard from about 22 people and luckily many of them had a lot of ideas. So I will start with some of the ideas that were mentioned by more than one person and then just pick a subject from each person who took the time to write and then pick a second idea until I run out of ideas. I counted and there were more than 200 suggestions and Robert Parker has promised me he will send me pages of ideas and I haven't added my choices to the list. So it looks like we will have ideas for a number of years so it may seem foolish for me to ask for more. But if more of you respond it may help me determine what subjects are the most popular.
I'll start tomorrow with the first topic which is growing from seed. I know we have discussed this before, but many people asked for it again or had specific questions about it. We can approach this in many ways but I am suggesting that we start with different people sharing their secrets. Alberto has already done this answering Jennifer's questions about seeds she had trouble with and just this past week Tom Glavich told us what he does. I will be sharing some of my saved tips during the week and asking some of the specific questions people submitted if they don't ask them first. The following week I think everyone should ask about genera or species that they have not been able to grow from seed and see if anyone can help. I am announcing this ahead of time so everyone can check your notes and memory banks for difficult seeds and be ready to ask. The more people who ask questions and share their experiences the better this will be for everyone and the easier it will be for me. But I will pull together some introductory comments tomorrow.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 07:08:14 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 16
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:17:43 -0400
Dear All,
The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for
sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me
PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 15" in the subject line.
Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify
quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system.
When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a
statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS
treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class
postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address
too, in case I don't already have it.
Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of
the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future
offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com
If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send
clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA,
18928, USA.
OFFERINGS:
Pacific BX 16:
SEED:
From Lee Poulsen:
1. Gelasine azurea
From Arnold Trachtenberg:
2. Alstroemeria psitticina
3. Allium winklerianum
4. Allium tuberosum
5. Allium jajlae
6. Crocus dalmaticus
7. Arisaema engleri ?
8. Eremurus himalaicus
9. Ornithogalum saundersiae
10. Lycoris chinensis
11. Lycoris longituba
From Charles Hardman:
12. Moraea villosa, 'Champagne Ice' strain
13. Moraea sp., small, violet
14. Moraea sp., small, lavender
15. Ornithogalum sp., yellow with wide Kelly-green leaves
Thank you, Lee, Arnold, and Charles !!
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 07:54:41 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021117173429.00a7ef00@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:47:56 -0800
Dear All,
Today starts our first weekly or in this case several week discussion. The subject is growing geophytes from seed. This is a very involved subject and I hope a lot of you will share your secrets and experiences. And I hope that those of you who are wanting to know how to do this will ask a lot of questions.
I always have a lot of questions so that is how I am going to introduce this topic. First off how many of you have a special potting mix to start seeds with? Do you use the same mix you use for planting bulbs? If not please describe your seed starting mix. Do you use the same mix for everything or vary it depending on what you are starting?
How many people plant seeds directly in the ground (like Gary Buckley) or in a pot with parent bulbs and how many start seeds in a new pot? Do you add fertilizer to the mix? Do some of you start seeds under lights? Do you protect from the rain or leave the pots out exposed to the elements? Do you control the temperatures or let nature decide? Have you found that rain water, distilled water, or tap water is best?
What size and kind of pots does everyone use?
Tom told us not long ago that he starts his seed in mini greenhouses. I'll quote from what he wrote. " I start about 200 pots of seedlings each fall, using plastic bag mini-greenhouses. The bags are sealed and more or less vapor tight. The potting mix is saturated, or close to it. Most of the seeds were planted in late September to early October, and germination of many was in the first two weeks, but there were still about 100 slow and erratic germinators."
After John Harris described using a method like this for winged seeds like Hippeastrum, I have found it to work like a charm, but haven't used it for other seeds. What kind of seeds are you growing this way Tom? Since Tom lives in Southern California where it is very dry I am assuming that the bags help provide moisture so he won't have to water the seeds very much or at all before they come up, but I also thought that he grew a lot of things from dry climates and wonder if the humidity would work for all seeds. When do you remove the bags Tom?
Alberto told us he does not cover his seeds for a couple of weeks. Has anyone else tried this? If you cover your seeds, what material do you use?
For everyone who is willing please share your system. Tell us where you live (or put it in your signature), the kinds of things you grow from seed, and what you have found works for you. We will be discussing this for a few weeks, so there will be time for thoughtful responses. I don't think there is only one way to accomplish this and I have so appreciated all those people who shared how they do it in the past as it has improved my rate of success a lot.
Mary Sue
PBS list administrator and TOW coordinator, Northern California
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 10:17:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Growing from seed
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:58:25 +0000
Dear all
To newcomers, before you start going crazy, it must be understood that we are all growing hundreds and hundreds of bulbs from many different habitats and watering requirements and information must necessarily be precise as to each kind. Often to each species as, there are very many genera in which some species are warm season growers and others cool season growers (like Alstroemeria, Calydorea, Androcymbium, Rhodophiala, Iris, Moraea, Gladiolus, Hippeastrum, etc., etc.). So to avoid failure, one must obtain information that is as much detailed as possible. Regards,
Alberto
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 14:55:12 2002
Message-Id:
From:
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:45:31 -0800
I know that when one doesn't have a reference on how to germinate some seeds
you try to duplicate what would happen in its natural environment. This works great for temperature. But what about light verses dark? Does anyone have a good rule of thumb on when to cover a seed verses leave it uncovered?
Thanks
Vicki Sironen
PBS Membership Chair
Preston, WA
USDA zone 7
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 16:50:27 2002
Message-Id: <3DD98407.64AAE051@worldnet.att.net>
From: John Bryan
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:21:27 -0800
Dear Vicki
As a basic rule, seed should be covered by a layer of soil/sand to a
depth equal to the size of the seed. Very fine seed, Begonia being a
good example needs just a very light dusting, of the suitable soil mix.
The point perhaps being to 'anchor' the seed so it is not disturbed when
watering. Cheers, John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 16:50:27 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Growing from seed. TOW
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:37:12 +0000
Hi Vicki et al
One rule of thumb for the thousands of bulb species in cultivation would be too wonderful but our germination results improved dramatically since we started leaving the seed of "difficult" species uncovered for a variable period. Now this is the routine procedure for perennials, bulbs, climbers, vegetables, you name it, for us.
Darkness as such is not very common for a germinating seed in Nature except as shelter (or competition) from neighboring vegetation.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 16:50:27 2002
Message-Id: <3DD941B1.32376.836707C2@localhost>
From: "Tom Stuart"
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:38:25 -0500
> But what about light verses dark? Does anyone have a
> good rule of thumb on when to cover a seed verses leave it uncovered?
Some rules I use
Woodland seed will be covered by leaf fall.
Seed from open habitats may not.
If the seed is held on the stalk until the next germination season (for
example with many Compositae) it is less likely to be covered.
Seed with arils, fleshy appendages containing starch or sugar, may be
transported underground by ants.
Tiny seeds seem to appear more often in propagation guides as requiring
light.
Look in Norman Deno's guides or online at
http//users.anet.com/~manytimes/page52.htm
If I have no clue and sufficient seed, some gets covered well, then topped
with the remaining seeds. If I am ambitious that day, they'll be in separate
pots with notes made.
Most seeds don't care about light.
Tom Stuart, Croton Falls, New York, USA, Zone 6
From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 17:05:38 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021118165710.0091b400@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:57:10 -0800
>First off how many of you have a special potting mix to start
>seeds with? Do you use the same mix you use for planting bulbs? If not
>please describe your seed starting mix. Do you use the same mix for
>everything or vary it depending on what you are starting?
I use the same mix for almost every kind of seed, unless I know the seed is
extremely difficult and is an alpine, in which case I may use straight
pumice (sieved so the large chunks and fines are removed). It consists of 3
parts ground horticultural pumice, 3 parts unwashed sharp coarse sand, and
1 part milled peat. I topdress the pots with granite grit.
>How many people plant seeds directly in the ground (like Gary Buckley) or
>in a pot with parent bulbs and how many start seeds in a new pot?
Always in a new pot.
>Do you
>add fertilizer to the mix?
No, but after the seedlings have some height I apply a weak liquid fertilizer.
>Do some of you start seeds under lights?
No, either on my covered deck or in a glassed-in room.
>Do you
>protect from the rain or leave the pots out exposed to the elements?
I do not leave them exposed to the rain, there is too much here. The
humidity in winter is quite high, but in summer quite low.
>Do you
>control the temperatures or let nature decide?
If I believe a species is not very cold-hardy, I keep the pot in the plant
room, which is frost-free, but otherwise I do not control temperatures. If
there is a cold snap, however, with temperatures below about 25 degrees F
(-5 C) I bring all the seedlings into the frost-free room for the duration.
I do not like to leave them in there all the time because they become
etiolated in the low light conditions we have in winter, even with glass
above and on the south.
Have you found that rain
>water, distilled water, or tap water is best?
I only have well water, which is not treated in any way. If it snows, I
sometimes pile snow on the ungerminated pots, which may be an old wives' tale.
>What size and kind of pots does everyone use?
3-1/2 inch or 6 inch depending on how much seed I have.
Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon
From ???@??? Tue Nov 19 06:46:48 2002
Message-Id: <018901c28fb9$d32eda20$18c43c3f@Coum>
From: "Gary Buckley"
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:52:53 +1100
Hi all,
Mary Sue, to be literal about my seed sowing direct into the ground, said
ground is really one large scree, filled with various mediums to accommodate
various bulb profiles grow.
>Do you
>add fertilizer to the mix?
No, but when I think of it, I do like to use what I term soil conditioners.
A light mix of complete trace element and a carrier like liquid seaweed. Not
at all very scientific, but over the last three decades I find this as we
are speaking in generalities, to hold.
>Do you
>protect from the rain or leave the pots out exposed to the elements?
for the most part yes. But I always cover with fine grit. I use 1-2mm grit
because this works for me across the board.
>What size and kind of pots does everyone use?
I prefer troughs.
Gary Buckley in Devonport, Tasmania min.-1C max; 26C
Alpines and Bulbs, E-magazine and Forum
http//www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/3061
mailtogaryrene@ozemail.com.au
From ???@??? Tue Nov 19 06:46:48 2002
Message-Id: <00c901c28fbb$b403cf00$45a0fea9@ibmbn1y4t0>
From: "Malcolm Thomas"
Subject: Growing from seed
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:06:22 +1100
G'day from Australia, group. Just joined so I'd better say hello. Nice to
see lots of familiar names amongst the posters.
I live on the outskirts of Melbourne and have grown species bulbs from seed
for the past 15 years or so. Have something like 1500 different species all
growing in pots in my back yard.
Problem with that is it's almost impossible these days to look after them
properly so they rarely get repotted these days - just the special ones.
All the seed I receive goes into a sealed container in the refrigerator
until about March (onset of Autumn - Fall for our US friends!!!)
All my seed gets planted the same way, into a mix of 2 parts coarse gravel,
1 part peat moss and 1 part worm castings. It is quite rich.
24 3-inch pots fit just nicely into those white polystyrene foam vegetable
boxes. Each pot is covered with a coarser 5 mm gravel mulch and then watered in and the polystryrene boxes stay on my back verandah which gets a small amount of
early morning sun only. Most plants germinate in the next few months but some don't surface until the next Autumn - occasionally not til the 3rd year.
Only rarely do I do anything different. I guess I get about 70% of pots
germinate but have never kept records of individual pot germination rates.
Always happy to get just 1 seedling up in each pot, actually. Any more is a
bonus.
I separate the pots as they germinate and leave them grow on until the end
of the 2nd year them pot them out in potting mix into 5-6 inch pots. If
nothing surfaces by the 3rd year, they get discarded.
Don't want to sound off-hand but I just don't have the time to treat each
species in the way they might grow the best - If they are survivers, I love
'em. If they aren't, I'll try something different next year.
Regards,
Malcolm Thomas
From ???@??? Tue Nov 19 17:33:56 2002
Message-Id: <3DDA9E02.8DEE352E@bulbargence.com>
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:24:34 +0100
Gary Buckley a *crit
>Do you>protect from the rain or leave the pots out exposed to the
elements?for the most part yes. But I always cover with fine grit. I
use 1-2mm grit because this works for me across the board.
I agree with Gary Grit is an ideal cover for seed. I got really
hooked on this 'mulch' after seeing in all sort of bulbs growing from
seed in aour gravel path
For the first time (at last) I am using the floating method right at
this moment for Rhodophiala species and Pancratium maritimum. I am
holding them in an old fridge at 20°C, after 3 days 50% of most batches
have germinated. The question arises
1) at what % germination do I sow
2) how do I sow. My intention is just tipping the water tray(and the
floating seed) into the seed boxes, cover it with 1cm of soil (and of
coarse grit on top of that)
3) after having germinated at 20°C how will the seed survive the
thermal shock our normal outside climate (varying between 5 and 15°C).
You may notice that our method is rather unsophisticated no glass
houses, no heating benches etc. Just natural outside conditions (in a
shadehall) in zone 9.
I would be very grateful if anyone will his 'floating' experience with
the group.
Kind regards
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site http//www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS" 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous
pouvez commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi entre december et mars.
(Flowering at the moment Cyclamen, Nerine, Narcissus tazetta, Moraea polystachya)
-
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 07:19:17 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021119161042.0091b980@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Growing from seed
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:10:42 -0800
Uli Urban mentioned pretreating seeds to break dormancy, in connection with
Cyclamen seed. This is a subject that does not come up too much with bulb
seed but alpine growers are maniacs about it. Dishwashing detergent, as Uli
mentioned, is sometimes used. Hydrogen peroxide at the "household use"
dilution may be recommended, although Josef Halda recommends a stronger
solution. Some growers experiment with gibberelic acid (GA3), with mixed
results; I have not had good results with it.
The boiling water treatment Uli mentioned for Fabaceae (pea family) is
used, but some growers prefer to scarify the seeds mechanically. I put them
on a pad of sandpaper and brush over them lightly with a fine metal file.
Some seeds contain germination inhibitors that have to be leached out.
Perhaps the floating method does this. A technique for germinating certain
Iris species is to place the seeds in the cut-off foot of a nylon stocking
and suspend this in the tank of a toilet (water closet). Every time the
toilet is flushed, the seeds get a fresh bath. Doing this for 2-3 weeks is
said to improve germination of, e.g., Iris missouriensis.
Most bulb seeds don't seem to need pretreatment. The most recalcitrant
germinators are Colchicum and the irises of the Juno, Regelia, and
Oncocyclus sections.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
From ???@??? Tue Nov 19 22:35:31 2002
Message-Id: <320083817243-0001@t-online.de.Tue,.19.Nov.2002.20:06:04.PST>
From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban)
Subject: Growing from seed
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:06:04 PST
Dear All!
Here are a few experiences listed I gained when growing plants (not exclusively bulbs) from seed
Seed of unknown light requirements is sown in a pot and half of the surface is covered with seed compost or grit and the other half is not. There are a few pots that only show germination on one half of the pot, but mostly it does not matter.
Cyclamen seed is soaked in water with a few drops of liquid dishwasher
detergent. this very reliably breaks dormancy and assures 100% germination if
the seed itself is good.
All seed of Fabaceae and Malvaceae is being poured over with BOILING water. (I admit I put a very small amount of cold water in the cup first) Seeds that
swell are planted those that don't receive one ore more repeated treatments.
This gives near 100% germination.
I cover seed with sed compost or grit, very find seed (Gesneriad) is left
uncovered. Green fleshy seed of Amaryllids (Nerine, Amaryllis belladonna etc)
is sown at the surface and left uncovered to enable photosynthesis of the seed.
Seed pots are sealed or covered in plastic etc as little as possible or not at all, except Gesneriad seed which are kept in a closed propagator. I lost far more seedling to damping off and mildew and too much humidity than I did
through drought. Also I find that seedlings that germinate under high humidity grow tall and lanky and tend to fall over.
I use 3 or 4 inch plastic pots and find it important to have all pots of the
same size in one batch so water requirement in the ungermiated state is even.
Germinated pots are moved if their water needs begins to differ from the
average of the seed batch.
The very best compost for growing bulbs, other plants with fragile root systems and to root cuttings is my new standard mix equal parts of Seramis, Perlite and coarse commercial potting compost. It is light weight, very porous, high air content at the same time excellent water holding capacity and will be fertililzed individually. Excellent results in germinating large Amaryllid seed in it, excellent large root systems. Not yet tried for small seed.
I always keep ungerminated seedling pots for at least one year, those of frost germinators even two years at least, weather-proof labelling is most important. Frost germiators are kept in a large open plastic box just covered with mesh to protect from mice and birds and left in the shade in the opem in my wonderful unpredictable winter weather.
Germinated bulbs seedlings are most prone to slug damage or complete
disappearance overnight if slug pellets are not used in advance. They may be a source of mildew, though.
Well, all the best, greetings from frost germinator's weather in Germany, Uli
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 07:19:18 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cameron McMaster"
Subject: Growing from seed
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:08:46 +0200
We grow mainly SA species, so we have one standard method! No greenhouse, only some shade cloth over some of the open beds, and some tables with glass-fibre roofing to keep the heavy rains off seedling boxes. Mostly we use seed trays that are about 20x30 cm and about 10 cm deep. We prepare more trays than needed at the moment, because often unexpected seeds arrive and they can then be sown immediately.
The mix: First some coarse stuff, whatever is available at the time, such as composted pine bark, stone chips, broken up styrofoam to a depth of about 3 cm. Then fill with the seedling mix: equal parts of loam, compost, coarse sand and fine composted pine bark (lumps removed or crushed). We add a little bonemeal. This mix is for the summer growing bulbs, but the Western Cape winter growing bulbs need more sand, so those trays get a double portion of coarse sand. Then we pour about 11/2 litres boiling water over each tray to kill off the weed seeds and hopefully any other pests. The final topping is: mix in a cupful of palm peat to the top 3 cm of mix - I just stir it around into the mix. Then I remove about 1/2 cm of the topping.
If there are a lot of seeds, I sprinkle them on the seed tray, sometimes up to 250 seeds, but if the seeds are precious or not so many, then I make shallow rows and drop them along the rows. Different species can be sown together in rows, just make sure they are very different so that the bulbs/corms are easily distinguished when lifting them later. The seeds are covered again with the top layer that was removed, and patted down slightly before watering carefully with a fine rose. As with Gary's method, some coarse grit on top is beneficial. It helps to keep the seeds firm so that they don't roll around or surface so easily.
If there are really a lot of seeds, then we also sow in open beds, very much as Gary described. Our water is from a borehole, so far it seems to be quite good (hasn't been tested).
We find that seedlings of deciduous species often stay green through the first natural dormant period, but we water them less at this time. If the leaves start turning brown, we stop normal watering immediately, but still give them a very light sprinkling about once in two weeks - most of the SA species do not want to be bone dry during their first dormancy. An advantage of using large seed trays or troughs is that the bulbs can be left to grow for at least two seasons, and if not sown too thickly, even longer.
Once I experimented with Zantedeschia aethiopica seed and put them in some damp vermiculite in a closed plastic bag in the fridge (they germinate and grow in the Cape winter). I forgot about them for about two months, and then found them germinating beautifully - 100%! They normally germinate quite easily, so this was just to see how they would react to constant cold.
Cyrtanthus seeds are floated on water (start off with very warm water) for 3-4 days, then carefully sown in rows and covered as described above. I don't wait for roots to emerge because that means a lot more work (time!) planting them out.
Rhoda
The Croft Nursery Eastern Cape
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 17:59:37 2002
Message-Id: <003c01c290ff$78192810$6401a8c0@home>
From: "Patricia Brooks"
Subject: Pacific Bulb Society Digest seed Start
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:44:01 -0500
I use Yogurt plastic cups to start seeds in, I use the ones with clear see
through covers, they act as minature greenhouses.You can modify your mix
according to what type of seeds they you are planting. I use sand to cover
them lightly, because I notice seeds of Iris va. and others would sprout
right on top of the soil. I am experimenting with liquid seaweed after they
sprouted.
Pat
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 20:42:58 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021120193211.00c17a30@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:19:28 -0800
Dear All,
We have gotten so many wonderful responses already and once again we find that a lot of different methods work. I keep modifying what I do as different methods are presented and abandon techniques when I find some I like better so always appreciate when people share what they do. I will no doubt study what every one has said and try some new experiments.
I have a number of different techniques for my seed depending on what I am sowing. Because I live in a Mediterranean climate, I mostly grow things that I think will be happy in it so most of my seed starting takes place in the fall as I am growing geophytes that are winter growers.
I sow a lot of seed from South Africa, mostly winter rainfall species and mostly from the Hyacinthaceae or Iridaceae families. After Rachel told us that many of these germinate best with warm days and cool nights I changed to sowing these in my greenhouse in fall as that way I can create the difference in temperatures. My greenhouse is unheated. I have had much better results doing that.
After learning that deep pots work much better than shallow I start everything in a pots that are probably at least 5 inches deep. That makes it easier to leave the plants in the pot for two years. If I have only a few seeds I use plastic cups (Mike Mace suggestion.) I get heavy duty ones at Costco and my husband heats up a nail and puts holes in the bottoms. They will last for about three years. Whether or not to cover and what to use is still not decided in my mind although I have eliminated a lot of things I have tried in the past and am experimenting now with Alberto's suggestion.
I also grow a lot of California natives. Those I start in the fall outside, but sheltered from our sometimes excessive rain. It usually takes much longer for these to come up. My seed starting mix also seems to vary every year as I refine what works. Probably my native mix is not as lean as my African mix.
A number of years ago I learned about the floatation method from Bill Richardson. I've been waiting for him to respond to Lauw's question or Lee since Lee told us how he successfully transplants seed that have germinated from the water. For those who don't know, winged seeds from the Amaryllis family can be floated in a saucer of water. In a very short time a radical will appear followed by a leaf. It is very satisfying to see this happen and so quickly. I often lose a lot in transplanting them to a pot from the water however.
John Harris described his method of starting Hippeastrum in BULBS. A couple of times I have floated half of the seeds and used a modified version of John's process for the other half. I mix the soil, pour boiling water over it and when cool, I plant the seeds sideways sticking out of the soil and cover with a little coarse sand although I'm not sure this is necessary and put the pot in a plastic bag (the size that covers the newspaper in wet weather works) and tie it closed. When I can see leaves, I take the bag off. After three or four trials, this latter method has yielded good results for me and much better than floating seeds so it is what I use for Rhodophiala and Cyrtanthus seeds now. I start those inside where I can see them and don't have a very scientific way of deciding when to move them outside. I guess it probably happens when they look strong enough to tolerate the change. I move them to the greenhouse first.
After many different methods I now soak cyclamen seed overnight, plant it and cover the pot with aluminium foil to keep it dark and place it in a place where the temperatures will remain about the same, not too warm or too cool. I now do this in the fall because seeds come up really well with this technique and sometimes would be growing when I couldn't keep them going so now I sow them when I want them to come into growth.
If whatever I am growing seems really vigorous and the leaves are getting large, I will try to carefully move them into a deeper pot which speeds up the growth a lot. I transplant some things the first year while in growth to their own individual container (Delphinium, Cardamine, Libertia, Iris for example.) I know you aren't supposed to do it, but I have few losses and I think they grow faster.
Mary Sue
Mary Sue Ittner
California's North Coast
Wet mild winters with occasional frost
Dry mild summers
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 21:01:50 2002
Message-Id:
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Floating technique for germination
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:42:18 -0800
I never had any luck germinating any of the papery amaryllid seeds until I
started using the floatation method.
However, when I try it on Cyrtanthus seeds -- which I generally have poor
luck germinating -- I get mixed results. Some Cyrtanthus seeds do not
produce green shoots floating on water, while others do. I have had good
luck with C. brachyscyphus, fair luck with C. breviflorus, and no luck with
several other species.
Is it possible that some Cyrtanthus species have a form of hypogeal
germination, forming a bulb and then going into a resting stage without
forming a green leaf until the next season? I've seen some Cyrtanthus seeds
float, sprout the radicle, and then sit there until they die. I've also
planted some before they died and before there was any sign of a green
shoot -- they never came up.
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 21:01:50 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mark Mazer
Subject: Floating technique for germination
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:42:18 -0800
> Once they have germinated and a green leaf has grown
Why wait for leaf growth? We pot when the radicle shows.
Mark Mazer
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 21:01:50 2002
Message-Id:
From: Ken K
Subject: Floating technique for germination
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:42:18 -0800
That has been my experience and conclusion as well. Many people are
not aware of this unless they own an aquarium, but many water
districts and municipalities are now using chloramine (a
chlorine/ammonia compound) which has even greater persistence in the
water distribution system, to the point where neutralizing chemicals
are vital if the water is to be used in an aquarium. (water which is
simply chlorinated can be detoxed via aeration) The greater
'half-life' of chloramines translates to better results for floated
seeds, IMO, although in the long term, I believe that is it
potentially damaging to plants - especially containerized plants that
are not subjected to the flushing effects of rainfall. Our local water
district made the change to chloramine about 10 years ago, and I
noticed a simultaneous decline in the health and vigor of my container
grown plant - they appeared to be drought-stressed, even though they
were being heavily watered. When I found out about the change in water
chemistry a few years later, it all began to make sense. As a result,
I'm looking into the practicality of ammonia detox products designed
for use in water gardens, as well as means of collecting rainfall.
Thanks for the excellent dissertation, Lee.
Ken
East S.F. Bay Area, Ca.
USDA Zone 9
-2°C to 38°C
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 21:01:50 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021120203530.00cc0b10@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Growing from Seed-Floatation
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Dear Lauw,
Since Lee Poulsen hasn't responded, here is what I saved from his excellent explanation of how he is successful with the floatation method along with comments from others on this list about floatation that I found interesting enough to save from the past discussion on the IBS forum. I hope you all don't mind my posting to this group.
Mary Sue
"Just wanted to put my two cents' worth in as well. (Okay, maybe 4 or
5 cents' worth...) The following steps are the accumulated result of
various trials and effort since I started using this technique.
I use those clear plastic party drink cups that have very wide mouths
and are about 3 inches tall. I write the name of the species on the
outside with a black marker, then I fill them with cool tap water. I
use tap water all the time now. I tried using distilled water several
times with older seed that I thought needed extra special care as
well as putting a few seeds in ordinary tap water, and the seeds in
the distilled water developed fungus/mold amazingly fast compared to
the tap water ones. I now think this was due to the fact that there
is still a residual amount of chlorination in the tap water that
acted as a natural fungicide.
After dropping all the seeds onto the surface of the water so that
they float due to surface tension, I place the cup with seeds in one
of those plastic trays used to hold six-packs and cover it with one
of those clear plastic "mini-greenhouse" lids made to the same size
as those trays. Then I place the tray under fluorescent lights (with
my other indoor fluorescent light growing items), or if it is a
(mediterranean-climate) fall germinating species, I place it outside
where direct sun won't hit it and put a weight on the lid so it won't
blow away.
Once they have germinated and a green leaf has grown to a sufficient
height (about a cm in length or longer), I pot them into small 4-inch
pots using a medium made of 50% seed-starting mix and 50% cactus mix.
I fill the potlets with the medium up to where I want the bottom of
the roots to reach, tamp it down firmly, then take a small amount of
soil and make a little "ledge" of soil the depth of the roots. I
place 3 or 4 seedlings against this "ledge" where they stick, then I
place another small amount of soil against the seedlings' roots
forming another ledge, repeating until the potlet is filled and I
have several rows of seedlings all at the proper level. Then I drench
the pot from below by placing it in a large bowl or bucket and
filling the bowl or bucket with water up to just below the rim of the
little pot(s). Sometimes lately I mist the seedlings from above to
rinse off any soil sticking to the leaves and also to settle them
into the soil a little better.
Once they're drenched I take them out of the bowl and pour a small
amount of liquid fungicide on them. Next, and I now think this is a
key step to the method, I place them back in the trays and cover them
with the plastic lid and place them back in the same location they
were in while germinating. I leave them there for a week or two (or
longer) until at least another new leaf has grown in and a third
starts to appear. Then I place them outside in a mostly shady humid
location until they seem to be growing normally.
Ever since I started letting them recuperate back in their
"mini-greenhouse" atmosphere, I haven't lost any to transplant
shock. I did this not too long ago with Pamianthe peruviana seed and
all the seed germinated and all of them survived the transplant
shock. (I lost almost all of two previous attempts at trying to start
this species.) One seed, that somehow slipped out of the plastic
drink cup onto a little pot of soil growing some other species,
germinated and grew under the same conditions but in soil the entire
time. It not only germinated much later (about two weeks after the
floating seed), it still hasn't caught up with the ones started by
floating that are growing right next to it. They have about 4 long
leaves each, while it still has only two much shorter ones. I have
also found that, at least using tap water, and especially for old
seeds with low germination percentage, if any seed is even barely
alive, it will usually manage to germinate and eventually grow a root
and a leaf long enough that I feel confident it will survive. (This
is often the case for me for seeds from Chiltern, such as Hippeastrum
seeds.) As Dell says, dead seeds usually mold very quickly. However,
it seems that old, barely alive seed has greater difficulty
germinating and surviving in soil without getting attacked by some
kind of microbe first than it does in pure water.
But that's just been my experience. I'm sold on this method as you
can probably tell."
--
--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10
From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 21:46:48 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021120202152.00c06100@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:59:20 -0800
Dear All,
Now that I have posted what I do, as the moderator this week I would like to comment about some of the things others have said. When I went to Australia a number of years ago Gary Buckley, Malcolm Thomas, and Will Ashburner were all kind enough to let us visit and to tell about their methods. Gary grows a lot of things from seed with great success and I was amazed that he sowed directly into the ground. He did not have a collection of pots, but a small garden packed with amazing and unusual plants. But he is right to correct me that he dug out all the soil and replaced it with his own mix. Have you done that in Tasmania too Gary?
Malcolm grows a lot of Australian geophytic orchids. We saw them and they were gorgeous. I believe you told us that your method for starting them is a bit different than your other seeds. For the sake of those on this list who may not know, would you share how you get these seeds to come up?
Jane, what is the wives tale about snow? Do you think it works?
Uli what is Seramis? Since obviously some of the things you grow you are subjecting to the elements and I know you grow some things that are not that hardy, are you starting the others in a green house or inside?
Are their others who are starting under lights in a basement or in the house and willing to share how that works?
It is interesting to reread Jim's comments about Cyrtanthus and Rhoda's about soaking the seed for a few days and then planting them which makes it sound like she has discovered soaking helps. Paul Chapman, are you out there? What method do you use for Cyrtanthus?
Finally Andrew Wilson is telling me he is very happy with diatomite as a covering for his pots in Southern California. I don't know if he is using it to cover seeds however. He writes, "Diatomite is a material that was formed millions of years ago by the petrification of diatoms, small sea and lake creatures. It is fairly hard, does not decompose and, unlike, chips of rock, can take up and store water. Like pumice it opens up a soil and maintains plenty of available surface area and air. Unlike pumice it stores water, is heavier so it does not float out of a mixture and is an attractive, light brown looking substance. It comes in sizes ranging from small chips to chunks an inch across. Orchid people seem to like the latter, I use the former." He also didn't say where he gets it or if it is really expensive.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 06:42:36 2002
Message-Id: <009e01c29130$0a45cec0$0500a8c0@main>
From: "Ixia"
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:31:41 +1100
Hi Mary Sue and all,
I'm a bit slow off the mark responding to this due to work commitments but
here goes
I've enjoyed reading all the responses so far and the different techniques
used.
I live in Gippsland, Victoria in Oz and my climate is very similar to SA and
we have the same seasons which helps.
I start all of my seeds under a cover which consists of a fibre glass roof
with open sides - and one with shade cloth sides. Both provide light, good
air flow and protection from our frosts in winter if needed. This way I
control watering and protection from heavy rains. I get good results with
this process and most species flower well in this system. The Ixia scillaris
seed I got to germinate in one season did so in these conditions, which I
talked about in an earlier posting.
I use 4 inch pots to start off and leave seeds in these for two years, will
pot up to a larger size as required or move out into garden space if I need
to.
My potting mix consists of a good quality seed raising mix, mixed with sand
and a little added blood and bone. I will use more sand sometimes depending
on the species and sometimes straight potting mix when I pot on.
I do not use any other fertiliser at all.
I use the flotation method for any kind of winged seed and wait until they
have produced roots and shoots before potting on. I find this gives me
better germination results with this method. I have an article written on
the flotation principle published on the IBS site and also on my Ixia page
somewhere if anyone is interested in trying this method. See links below in
my signature.
If unsure about planting depth I usually cover seed lightly with sieved
sand. Very fine seed is usually placed on top and carefully watered in. I
always bottom water my pots until the seed have established and then I use a
very fine spray mist system which I set up using poly tubing and a fine
mist spray.
It is important that you do not let your pots dry out as this will cause
losses.
I do not have the time nor the capacity to store up rain water so I just use
tap water but I would if I could.
I never throw pots away if they don't germinate the first year as often they
will germinate in the following season. This will often depend on how old
the seed is when you get it and this will definitely affect germination
percentage.
All seed is different. . I collected seed in Queensland of a Canna and found
it in a drawer five years later. I planted them out and got 100% germination
and they are flowering in my garden at present.
What I feel is important is good air flow, watering techniques, adequate
light
and also keeping good records of what special techniques you use.
Hope this helps.
Good Growing.
Bill Richardson
Gippsland
Australia
8-30 c. Lovely days of Spring. Water restrictions here.
Ixia site http//www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia
Suite 101 site http//suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 06:42:36 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Growing from Seed-Floatation
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:50:45 -0800
Mary Sue,
Thanks for re-posting my previous post on the flotation method. The reason I hadn't posted yet, was that I was looking for my copy of that post since I didn't want to re-type all of that again.
I never did answer why I wait until a leaf forms (or Jim Shield's question about Cyrtanthus that never send out a green leaf shoot). The reason I wait is because, from trial and error, I've found that when I planted seeds that had a root, but no leaf, I would sometimes lose half or more of them, and no leaf ever germinated. In one case (I can't remember which species), about half the floated seeds had sent out a leaf and half hadn't, but all the seeds had a decent root of about the same length on them. I planted them all in one pot and the seeds that hadn't sent out a shoot, never did send out a leaf and disappeared. The ones that had sent out a leaflet all grew and eventually became full-sized plants. So maybe it's superstition on my part.
As for some of the Cyrtanthus species, of all the Cyrt. species I've tried so far, all have germinated for me using the flotation method. However, some of them resulted in none of the seedlings sending out a leaflet. I kept waiting and waiting, expecting the roots to mold and eventually die, or the seedling to stop floating, sink, and eventually die. Instead, for these few types, a small bulblet would form right below the surface of the water and proceed to grow larger--and continue floating. I eventually decided to plant the little bulblets that looked just like small offsets. These eventually sprouted leaves and proceeded to grow normally after some time. Sorry, but I didn't keep a record of which species did this nor how long or during which season they eventually sprouted.
A couple of other points to mention (since I've been recently sowing and floating seeds since, most of the seed I try is mediterranean climate stuff and typically germinates in the autumn in their native habitat--which, as Mary Sue pointed out, it now is in California)
1. I monitor the seeds daily in case one or more of the seeds that are bad somehow, and won't ever germinate, start to grow mold or fungus. Some of these funguses spread rapidly even to healthy seed and kill them. I remove and throw away any seed that shows any kind of growth (other than a root) as soon as I see it appear.
2. Some seed is so slow germinating that the water starts to get dirty looking or grow algae and turn green. In these cases, I carefully pour out all the water and add brand new fresh water from the tap to replace it at regular intervals. Or if I'm particularly worried or it's particularly rare, I prepare a new clean cup with water and re-float the seeds in the new cup. I usually give up after a couple of months since then it seems that the seed is too old or dead or something is otherwise wrong with the seed. Is two months not long enough or too long?
Anyway, I'm no expert, but do it this way merely based on the experiences I've had trying to get papery/winged seed to germinate.
--Lee Poulsen
PBS Treasurer
Pasadena area, California, USDA 9-10
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 06:42:36 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Growing from seed PBS TOW
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:32:03 +0000
Dear all
I think I must mention the method we have been using for many years with great success for black flat seed (Zephyranthes, Hippeastrum, Cyrtanthus, Rhodophiala, Cooperia, Haylockia, Phycella, Eustephia, Stenomesson, Phaedranassa, Habranthus, etc.).
First, we sow thinly in a 10 cm pot (as usually seed is scarce, otherwise use bigger pots). Mix is gritty and with no fresh organic matter, old ventilated commercial mix is good plus drainage.
Second, we add a thin layer of crushed rock to anchor the seed. As you can read from recent postings the experts mention they top with some material to anchor the seeds, not to cover them.
Third, put the pots with seeds in a tray with water (say 1 inch of water) and replenish it as it evaporates. The tray is placed in a spot with good light and convenient temperatures (self explaining).
Germination is rapid and the small plants can be kept growing with water from below for months with no harm. Very minute doses of a complete foliar fertilizer are added from time to time, the aim is to obtain natural growth.
Fourth, the whole rootball with dormant bulbs is potted in a bigger pot, undisturbed, DEEPER, for the second season of growth. After this is over, the bulbs are big enough to be sorted and potted individually (if need be) with no damage.
This is the alternative to the floatation method and subsequent potting (this a PUNISHMENT!)and works wonders. My good friend John Wagner has dubbed it "the absorption method".
As Dell says Enjoy!
Alberto
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 06:42:36 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021121084038.039e9020@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: What's in bloom now
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:05:25 -0500
Hi all,
Outdoors, it is well on its way to becoming winter. I see one spike open on Kniphofia caulescens; otherwise, it is all over for this year.
The greenhouse is my refuge in winter, and I like to have something in bloom at any given time. Right now, there are about a dozen scattered varieties blooming. Old reliable Moraea polystachya is floating its ethereal blue butterflies above its coarse grassy foliage. The oxalis are starting to bloom Oxalis bowei is putting up a good show of its large pink flowers, while O. triangularis is producing its more modest pale pink-white flowers above the vivid burgundy colored leaves. A few buds are starting to show on O. purpurea.
The pot of Narcissus 'Fyno' has its first flower of the season open, with more buds to come. Haemanthus deformis is going to flower for me for the very first time. The bracts surrounding the umbel are such a clear, vivid white, it surprised me. I'm looking forward to seeing the flowers open. H. deformis is one of the white paintbrush Haemanthus, but much whiter than my clone of H. albiflos.
The berries on Haemanthus humilis hirsutus from pollination with H. coccineus are a bright red-orange and getting pretty soft; must be time to harvest my little crop of hybrid seeds!
Cyrtantus [elatus X montanus] are in bloom again. This is either the 2nd or the 3rd time they have bloomed this year. I wish they were fertile! So far I have never gotten any seed off these plants. C. sanguineus bloomed on out-of-season flower a month ago. In the past, I've tried to cross sanguineus with [elatus X montanus] but never had any success either direction.
A planter full of seedling Lachenalia rubida are putting on a great show with pink-speckled flowers. Near by, L. rubida rubra with their solid rose-pink flowers and burgundy foliage spotted with purple are also blooming. The L. rubirda rubra came through the IBS BX from Longwood Gardens, I believe. This is a very choice clone.
The last cyclamen blooms are on a pot of Cyclamen cilicium album. A single surviving Androcymbium europaeum is blooming. Too bad I threw away all the seeds it and its two departed brothers produced last year. Massonia jasminiflora (pustulated leaf form) is starting to bloom, its small snow-white flowers offset by the black anthers. M. jasminiflora grows its leaves prostrate even in my northern greenhouse. Next to it, what we think is M. pustulata (with smooth, plain green leaves) holds its leaves semi-erect rather than letting them spread out and lay flat.
In the other greenhouse, the first blooms ever on seedlings of Clivia gardenii are in flower. For the life of me, I cannot see any difference between these flowers and those of C. caulescens, also in bloom in the same greenhouse. In both, the anthers reach just to the tips of the tepals, being neither inseerted nor excerted so far as I can see!
Finally, the first flowers are opening on Nerine bowdenii "Koen's Hardy" as a rich, deep rosy pink. Wish me luck with its pollen!
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 07:30:12 2002
Message-Id: <013e01c2916d$781e0010$6501a8c0@John>
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Seed sowing
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:51:26 -0500
Several folks have commented on the recent TOW that they bear in mind the
plants natural habitat/climate when choosing composts and conditions for
seed sowing and germination. I would strongly agree that this is vital when
considering growing conditions for plants and bulbs once they have become
established (in this case established can mean as soon as you move them from
their seed pots). However, I find it is less important when considering
seed sowing media, and all of my seeds are sown on the same medium and given
the same very basic treatment. This standardization saves a huge amount of
time and also makes it easier to grow the bulbs on as they are all in the
same size pots and compost, hence they dry out at roughly the same rate.
The ability to water correctly is probably the hardest skill to acquire and
responsible for most losses. The absolute requirement is good drainage,
after this it probably doesn't make a lot of difference what is in the
compost as long as it is amenable to the plants and you are comfortable with
its properties when it comes to watering and feeding.
I use 3 1/2" or 4 1/2" Kordlok pots for bulbs because of their extra depth,
and fill them to within 1/2" of the rim with a 5050 mixture of BioComp BC5
compost (coarse grade composted peanut hulls and bark) and supercoarse
perlite. Seeds are sown as soon as available on the surface then the pot
filled to rim with starter grade granite grit (poultry grit). After
watering overhead they go onto the floor of my small greenhouse until they
germinate - they will get to or just below 32F but won't freeze through, the
latter is detrimental even to emerging seedlings of 'hardy' bulbs. After
germination they come into my bigger greenhouse where they won't get below
around 40F but they get excellent light and ventilation. Most bulbs stay in
their seed pots for a minimum of two years. Most waterings, except the
first few that wake them up in the fall, include weak fertilizer from an
in-line feeder (EZGrow). Most of my bulbs are summer dormant so they go to
sleep usually in May, after which point they are kept completely dry until
they are woken up in mid-September when we have cooled down a little. Newly
germinated seedlings are kept growing as long as possible their first year
by keeping as cool as possible, often with more shade than they would get
when mature. Watering any sooner than mid-September (here on the east
coast) risks significant root and bulb rot.
I never soak seeds or pre-/post-treat in any way and am very satisfied with
the germination rates I get. Sowing around 400 pots a year usually means I
get 300 pots germinated, and once you get into the swing there are so many
new flowers each year that it really doesn't matter if germination could
have been hurried along a little sooner. Pre-treatments certainly can and
do work but I figure their main merit is in commercial growing when very
rapid and uniform germination is an absolute requirement. I grow a very
wide variety of bulbs from seed and don't have any particular genera that
just flatly refuse to behave, although Juno and Onco irises can be delayed
and sporadic germinators. Colchicum can also be frustrating and, with the
exception of kesselringii, seem to give relatively poor results.
I also have a question. Should seed of things like Crocus be allowed to dry
out during the summer if they don't germinate the first season (usually
because sown too late) ? I tend to keep all my seed pots moist year-round
but always find in the fall a fairly small proportion of pots in which the
seeds have rotted during the summer. I never know whether this is because
the seed was too wet (and hot) or whether it was no good in the first place.
Older seed is more prone to this, and the fact that most pots are just fine
would make me think it is better to keep them moist. The danger of keeping
them dry for several months would be that seed of plants like Trilliums,
Erythroniums and other such things would become inviable or inhibited
further from germination.
As an aside, I have just had a pot full of Fritillaria striata seed
germinate. This seems very early but may fit in with its life cycle in
habitat. Can anyone comment please ?
Best,
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone 610 594 9232
Fax 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http//www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 07:55:37 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021121065814.00c04dc0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: What's in bloom now
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 07:29:32 -0800
Dear Jim,
It is nice to hear what is in bloom now. My Oxalis bowiei is still blooming and it looks like it is setting seed. Could this be? I'll have to wait and see if anything is in those pods. My Oxalis have continued to delight me. Oxalis glabra (from a Uli BX) just started and I have been enjoying Oxalis versicolor and Oxalis goniorrhiza from Telos. They are very similar and I haven't tried to understand how they are different yet. Two favorites right now are different forms of Oxalis luteola. I have a couple forms that have never bloomed, but a very handsome one from Mike Mace with pale yellow flowers has been delightful and I was the lucky winner at the IBS auction of one from Michael Vassar with bright yellow flowers that cover the plant. My Oxalis triangularis which was also a present from Uli back when we could get material in the US without a phyto is just about done, coming into growth in March and blooming from May until now.
Moraea venenata which looks like a smaller M. polystachya but has been much easier for me to grow in dry summer conditions has been wonderful. And I am thrilled with a first flowering from Silverhill Seed of Romulea hallii. I'll post pictures of it to the images list. It is from one of the colder parts of the winter rainfall areas of South Africa.
O.K. Jim, that does it. Tell us how you get that Cyrtanthus elatus X montanus to bloom 2 or 3 times a year. Mine just keeps making small babies. I recently potted it up hoping that would help. I have given offsets twice to the BX. Anyone else still needing me to send another batch to Dell? Write me privately if the answer is yes. mailtomsittner@mcn.org And Jim PLEASE share your secrets!
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 07:55:37 2002
Message-Id: <778488BF.059BB074.007B69A6@aol.com>
From: TGlavich@aol.com
Subject: Seed Growing
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:44:15 -0500
As many of you have written, the hard part of seed growing is often not getting the seeds to germinate, but having them survive the first couple of months of post germination growth.
I start all seeds in plastic bags, it prevents fungus from spreading, and allows better humidity control, without requiring daily monitoring. Once I get germination, I remove the seeds from the plastic bag,(for bulbs well before the first leaf touches the bag), for other plants after a couple of days. I then put them under cool white flourescent lights for about a week, with the plants standing in a about 1/4 of water. For fall bulbs, I have the lights on 13 hours a day.
After this its into a shade house, with additional shading. I water every day or two. At this time, I begin spraying with a weak mix of Miracle Grow a couple of times a week. I'm trying to achieve foliar feeding, there are still hardly any roots to absorb fertilizer. I get quicker growth the first few weeks doing this, and better long term survival.
After the seedlings get about 1/1/2 inches tall, I move them in a clump from 2 1/4 inch seedling pots to 3 1/2 inch or 5 inch pots, add more time release fertilizer to the soil, and again get a growth spurt.
I've found late night visits to the green house essential to finding hidden slugs and snails. There are always a few who sleep in until 1100 at night, and then come up for dinner. I try to an inspection nearly every night, at different times.
Tom
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 08:48:08 2002
Message-Id:
From:
Subject: Seed Growing
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 08:11:34 -0800
Please explain more about what you mean regarding starting seeds in a plastic
bag. Do you mean you put a plastic bag over a pot? Or are you just putting
seeds and water into a bag with no soil? Thanks
Vicki Sironen
PBS Membership Chair
Preston, WA
USDA zone 7
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 16:41:50 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021121101120.0091c3e0@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: What's in bloom now
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:11:20 -0800
Little is flowering in my "greenhouse," or conservatory, or plant room (or,
as a Russian friend calls it, the aranzheriya 'orangery'), except for
cyclamen species such as C. graecum, persicum, africanum, and rohlfsianum.
In the bulb frame, however, are many interesting flowers.
Being an alpine enthusiast I love Scilla lingulata var. ciliata, which has
flat rosettes of stiff little triangular leaves and puffs of bright blue
flowers barely rising above them. There are several fall-blooming scillas
-- most people grow S. scilloides and S. autumnalis. S. intermedia flowers
in September here. S. scilloides is rather large and increases quickly, but
the others would be perfect in a California rock garden.
Many crocuses have already come and gone. Crocus nudiflorus is in good
condition now, and C. ochroleucus is starting up in frame and garden; the
latter survives my rodent=infested beds better than any other crocus, I
think because it pulls itself down so deeply. C. moabiticus, which started
out this season rather slowly in very cold temperatures, has improved its
outlook on life in the past few warm days, and I hope to get some seed set,
as it set seed during a warm fall 2 years ago; a "saffron" relative native
to Jordan, it is rare and endangered and rarely sets seed in cultivation,
and should be grown in southern California, where I will send some if
possible one of these years. Just behind it in flowering schedule is
another Mideast native, C. hermoneus, which seems to be a bit easier to
grow although also quite scarce.
The Sternbergias are almost done, though S. greuterana has a longer
flowering period than the other fall-blooming ones; it is small, about
one-third the size of familiar S. lutea.
The last of the Colchicums are in flower now, particularly tiny C. cupanii
in the autumn-flowering white form. It has filled an 8-inch (20-cm) pot and
covered the surface with bloom. I also have it in the rock garden, where it
is surviving but not flowering, perhaps a bit too cold and wet. Another
late colchicum is C. procurrens, which is pink.
Narcissus serotinus and N. humilis both flowered this fall, just before I
left for South America in October, and I am both surprised and gratified to
see them carrying on from year to year in what must be a trying climate for
them.
Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 13:31:40 2002
Message-Id: <285475B4.156D3F8E.007B69A6@aol.com>
From: TGlavich@aol.com
Subject: Seed Growing
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:34:04 -0500
I put a small pot with a saturated coir/vermiculite mix or coir/pumice mix in a plastic lunch bag. I use a light top dressing of chicken grit. Bright light, no sun.
Tom
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 16:03:41 2002
Message-Id:
From: DrR Hamilton
Subject: Whats blooming
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:36:58 +1100
Jim and Mary Sue,
I enjoyed hearing what you have blooming ( and seeing your lovely
Romulea Mary Sue ). Here in the Southern Hemisphere the excitement of
spring has passed but some lovely things still continue to please.
It may be of interest that I am enjoying the blooms of
Californian Iris at present. I have a number of hybrids but must say
I do appreciate more the simplicity of the species. At present I have
yellow and white forms of Iris inominata and first blooms on Iris
tenuissima subsp purdyiformis. I douglasiana has finished . I am
delighted to have a new batch of Iris macrosiphon seedlings growing
well.
Cheers,
Rob
--
Dr R F Hamilton, 7 Beach Road, Snug 7054
Tasmania, Australia
Temperate Marine Climate (USDA 8/9)
Average Garden Rainfall 26.7 inches per annum
- fairly evenly spread (range 21-36)
Temperature extremes -2 C , 38 C. (Very occasionally)
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 16:41:50 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021121164121.0091b460@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:41:21 -0800
Mary Sue asked,
>Jane, what is the wives tale about snow? Do you think it works?
Some alpine growers claim that melting snow water stimulates germination in
seeds, either because it is particularly pure or because of extra oxygen in
it. I don't know of any test of this theory. It's also possible that the
snow insulates the pot in freezing weather and helps it thaw slowly, which
might help if the seeds are frozen. Once or twice I tried watering
recalcitrant seeds with a product called "Oxy-Plus" that is supposed to
oxygenate the soil, but I don't think it helped.
One thing that has not been mentioned is that even seed that appears to be
good may not be. There are a lot of tiny insects and other organisms that
eat the embryos out of seeds. I don't know how prevalent this problem is
with bulb seeds -- it is very common with composites.
>Uli what is Seramis?
It is a product available in Europe that is made from porous hardened clay
in granules. I think there is a similar product available in North America,
particularly on the East Coast where they do not have pumice. Pumice would
be an equivalent and is undoubtedly cheaper in most of North America, even
where they have to ship it in. However, it should be mentioned that pumice
will decompose over a period of several years in an acidic environment, so
if you mix it with peat, as I do, it loses its beneficial qualities after 4
or 5 years. This can be noted in seed pots that are kept that long -- and
yes, I do keep some seed pots 5 years, particularly desert irises.
I agree with Alberto Castillo's posting regarding the method of growing
"flat black" seeds. I do almost exactly as he does and have never had any
problems germinating Rhodophiala, etc., whether freshly collected or stored
for a period of a year or more in the refrigerator. (However, I do not grow
tropical species, which may respond differently.) I've always considered
these multi-step methods such as flotation and germinating in bags in the
refrigerator to be space-saving but labor-intensive, and I have more space
than time.
John Lonsdale wrote,
>I also have a question. Should seed of things like Crocus be allowed to dry
>out during the summer if they don't germinate the first season (usually
>because sown too late) ?
I don't usually do this deliberately, but Josef Halda once told me that
Eremurus seed in particular should be allowed to dry out during the summer
if it doesn't germinate the first season. If I have seed that I've been
told should have a dry period, I put the pot in my summer-dry bulb frame
instead of on the deck with the other seed pots.
>As an aside, I have just had a pot full of Fritillaria striata seed
>germinate. This seems very early but may fit in with its life cycle in
>habitat. Can anyone comment please ?
I grow some of this species almost every year, since my plants dutifully
set seed, and it typically germinates very early. I keep the pots in the
greenhouse during freezing weather. F. liliacea, another low-elevation
California species, does the same thing. You need to be on guard against
damping off with these if they are in warmer conditions, but John has an
alpine house, which should be perfect.
Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 20:24:08 2002
Message-Id: <3DDD9BE0.7934F76F@concentric.net>
From: Ken K
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:52:16 -0800
Jane McGary wrote
> >Uli what is Seramis?
>
> It is a product available in Europe that is made from porous hardened clay
> in granules. I think there is a similar product available in North America,
> particularly on the East Coast where they do not have pumice. Pumice would
> be an equivalent and is undoubtedly cheaper in most of North America, even
> where they have to ship it in. However, it should be mentioned that pumice
> will decompose over a period of several years in an acidic environment, so
> if you mix it with peat, as I do, it loses its beneficial qualities after 4
> or 5 years.
The product that comes to mind is Turface, a fired clay product, also
available under the Schultz label as 'Clay Soil Conditioner' Schultz
also markets what appears to be the same product for use as aquarium
substrate, but the price is about triple.
Read more about it here
http//www.profileproducts.com/productinfo_turface.html
http//www.schultz.com/procc.htm
> I agree with Alberto Castillo's posting regarding the method of growing
> "flat black" seeds. I do almost exactly as he does and have never had any
> problems germinating Rhodophiala, etc., whether freshly collected or stored
> for a period of a year or more in the refrigerator. (However, I do not grow
> tropical species, which may respond differently.) I've always considered
> these multi-step methods such as flotation and germinating in bags in the
> refrigerator to be space-saving but labor-intensive, and I have more space
> than time.
Floating seeds makes germination fun to observe, however I have a
tendency to let the seeds stay afloat too long at which point losses
to decay can be heavy.
Ken
East S.F. Bay Area, Ca.
USDA Zone 9
-2°C to 38°C
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 20:24:08 2002
Message-Id: <001501c291da$e75376a0$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Seed sowing
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 19:54:04 -0800
Dear John - I see your query re Fritillaria striata germination, and how
early it seems for this. F. striata in its native habitat is unlikely to
germinate before December or early January, based on when the winter rains
are most likely to finally reach the area where it grows. Perhaps your seeds
received moisture earlier ? Jim's experience with the species from that far
south in California was that, almost like desert species, they "glommed
onto" whenever the rains came and developed quickly thereafter, so they
could get in some growth before the hot weather (which may arrive in their
native area as early as late February or early March). This species seems to
bloom as early as mid-February typically. Jim and I visited its home several
times, and found we usually tended to be "late" to see it in full bloom -
until we went in mid-February.
Your challenge will probably be to allow it to dry back when the leaves
start to yellow - you will probably be tempted to keep watering, "to put on
more growth." But if you don't let it dry back, you may risk rot setting
into the little bulblets. Be patient !!! And also be patient next fall, and
wait to water it until very late in the fall.
-------------- Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 20:24:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Seed sowing
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:03:45 -0500
Dear Georgie,
Very many thanks for your helpful comments. This seed came from a friend in
the UK and was sown only about 2 months ago. It was watered immediately and
I assume this caused the recent germination. I am trying to grow many of
the western frits from seed, and have some species almost to flowering
size - I hope I can do the same with this treasure !
Thanks again for your advice, much appreciated as I remain relatively
ignorant of the subtleties of some of these plants in habitat.
Regards, J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone 610 594 9232
Fax 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http//www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 07:00:27 2002
Message-Id: <3DDDEADA.7B5786E7@bulbargence.com>
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:29:14 +0100
Ken K a *crit
> Floating seeds makes germination fun to observe, however I have a
> tendency to let the seeds stay afloat too long at which point losses
> to decay can be heavy.
Ken,
After a few days some seeds sink to the bottom. Can these be
considered rotted or non viable?
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site http//www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS" 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous
pouvez commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi à partir de
maintenant jusqu'au fin mars.
(Flowering outside at the moment Cyclamen, Dahlia imperialis,
Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Nerine, Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Moraea polystachya)
-
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 07:00:27 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Boyce Tankersley"
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:56:33 -0600
Lauw
My son (who I had taught that the viable live oak acorns are supposed to sink) used his finger to 'sink' all of the Crinum seeds I obtained earlier this year from Jim Shields. Most were floating but a few were at the bottom of the dish. To my relief, they all germinated and are growing at this time.
Has anyone else had experience with the viability of sinking seeds in other taxa?
Boyce Tankersley
btankers@chicagobotanic.org
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 07:41:10 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021122072535.00bd8600@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:35:23 -0800
Dear All,
I have a question that seems relevant to our topic this week. I started some seed of Allium crispum which is a favorite of mine. As I have discovered in the past it really does better in colder winters so I have been prechilling the bulbs before I plant them like tulips and decided to stratify the seeds. When I checked on them the first time, there was no sign of action and then I forgot about them and when I checked again (about 3 1/2 weeks) most had germinated but were white. I hoped when I put them in the light they would green up but they continue to be white so I assume I'll lose all of them. Since I have experienced the odd all white leaf or two in a seedling pot that does not survive I am wondering whether this was caused by lack of light or if the seed isn't any good. People talk about finding green leaves in the refrigerator so I am suspecting the seed. I sent some seed of this to Dell for the BX and wouldn't want to offer it if there was a problem. Can any of you seed experts help explain what is going on?
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 08:39:30 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021122104219.00ab58e0@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: What's in bloom now -- Cyrtanthus [elatus X montanus]
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:00:09 -0500
Hi Mary Sue and all,
Well, I will share them if I can figure out what my secrets are for growing and blooming Cyrtanthus [elatus X montanus]. First, I think you are headed in the right direction by potting up. My larger bulbs are about 3 inches in diameter (ca. 20 cm. circumference) and individually in 7 inch standard clay pots or 1.5 gal. black plastic nursery containers. They are growing in my "gritty mix" -- Promix + sand + granite chick starter grit, ca. 2 1 1 proportions by volume.
They are in the greenhouse in winter, with some shade compound painted on the glass. In summer, they are outdoors in full sun.
They do not grow continuously, but when I see new growth starting, I begin watering more regularly and feeding occasionally with soluble Peters 20-20-20. I think that the bulbs spontaneously pause every few months to rest. I probably water less often when they are "pausing" but I have not kept track of it in the past. I don't think I ever let them get totally desiccated.
These plants also produce myriad small bulbils and some offsets. I now discard the bulbils, but I have potted the offsets up separately sometime in the past year. I'll probably occasionally offer them for sale as they reach bloom size.
I'll keep better records of when they bloom in the future, starting with right now. Then we won't have to depend on my swiss cheese memory for information.
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 10:18:35 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:52:13 -0500
Mary Sue,
I can't offer an answer but have a similar experience. Three years ago all
my seedlings of Corydalis ornata were white or very pale yellow, even though
growing in good light. They germinated next to other Corydalis species
which behaved perfectly. The ornata did not go on to make bulbs, they just
hung around a few weeks then faded away. I guess it must be genetic in this
case as there were no environmental factors that could account for it.
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone 610 594 9232
Fax 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http//www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 12:51:17 2002
Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B47607F50E@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org>
From: "Boyce Tankersley"
Subject: Growing from Seed-PBS TOW
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:46:19 -0600
Hi Mary Sue and all
Very interesting. 'Normal' seedlings with the ability to produce chlorophyll turn green when exposed to light. There are some instances where inbreeding results in expression of recessive genes (some breeding lines of Zea mays for example) that are fatal. They made for a great experiment in high school biology class.
Do you know if you have a single clone of this species? If so, this may explain why your seedlings lack chlorophyll. If not, perhaps others on the list may be able to offer an explanation.
Boyce Tankersley
btankers@chicagobotanic.org
From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 20:29:55 2002
Message-Id: <3DDEFE90.400DEB5C@concentric.net>
From: Ken K
Subject: Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus)?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:05:36 -0800
Mary Sue, Jim, and all,
I have a bulb labeled Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus) which I bought
from Jim Duggan in the spring of 2001. That year it bloomed midsummer,
on a very short stalk - so short, in fact, that if the plant had not
been in a pot, the flowers would have been lying on the ground. This
year it bloomed once during the early summer on a short scape, and is
blooming again right now on a 14" scape. Here is a link to a photo of
the current scape.
http//www.concentric.net/~ellipsis/Plants/Cyrtanthus_hyb.html
Jim, does this appear to be the same plant you have? Do you know the
hybridizer? It is slightly less saturated in color (more orange, less
red) than the picture shows. I have never set a seed on it, although
my only attempts were using its own pollen.
The bulb is almost evergreen here if I remember correctly, and I leave
it out in the elements year-round, where it receives full sun and a
wet winter. In the summer, I feed it regularly with an organic liquid
fertilizer (12-6-6) at half-strength.
It was in a 1-gallon nursery container, then I moved it up to a
2-gallon early this spring, separately potting a few offsets. A few
weeks ago I noticed that the largest of the offsets had lost its
leaves, and when I investigated, I found a B-B sized hole in the basal
plate. I sliced the bulb in half vertically, and discovered that the
heart had been consumed by a large white grub. I put the rooted basal
plate and the bulb scales that were still attached to it (all dusted
with Captan) in a pot, where I hope to generate a few more offsets. I
put the other half of the bulb's scales against the glass of a quart
Mason jar of potting mix with a screen top, adding the grub, creating
my very own Narcissus Bulb Fly Farm. This is not the first time a Bulb
Fly larvae has attacked an Amaryllid here. I lost a Cyrtanthus elatus
and a Stenomesson variegatum within the last three years.
Ken Kehl
East S.F. Bay Area, Ca.
USDA Zone 9
-2°C to 38°C
From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 09:23:43 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021123074318.00bf8720@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Iris unguicularis
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:07:39 -0800
Dear All,
Seeing all those nice Iris pictures on the Australian Image list prompts me to announce that Iris unguicularis is blooming for me right now so we have Iris blooming in two hemispheres. In the past Will Ashburner and Cathy Craig both recommended cutting the foliage to the ground since the flowers are very short and could be obscured otherwise. I remembered to do this finally this year and have been charmed by these gorgeous huge flowers.
I looked it up again in my files to see if I could remember the exact prescription and found a very helpful response from Dirk Wallace. He wrote
"Winter Iris is a well loved garden plant in this neck of the woods and it seems to tolerate most soil types. Acidic soil is definitely not their preference but I'm sure they would still grow and flower OK if it wasn't too acidic and they received a dry Summer rest. Our soil is neutral to slightly alkaline so they thrive in ordinary garden soil. The original clump was growing in straight clay and wasn't doing too badly, but as compost and sand have been added (as mulch) they've picked up, and are growing and flowering better than ever. I feed them with Blood and Bone and wood ash in Autumn and a handful of Dynamic Lifter(pelletised manure-usually quite alkaline) in Spring. Not much else is needed except good drainage and a dry & hot spell in Summer to initiate flowers. The climate here makes them a very easy plant to grow. Our Summers are hot and dry(40+degC) and Winters are fairly mild(-4degC, day temp. above 10). Transplanting usually happens in Spring, after flowering, but if you get them at the right time in Autumn they'll still flower successfully. They need to be planted firmly and not dried off until they have an established root system. They always do better in clumps than singularly, for me."
I just wanted to report that in northern California where all our soil gets acidic quickly being leached by all our rain and where I have totally neglected this plant never having fertilized it and where we have maybe 3-4 hot spells a year that last for a day or two when you could sit outside at night without a sweater I am still getting this plant to bloom. So Dirk is correct, it is very adaptable and perhaps it is the dry summer that helps.
How hardy is it? Who else grows it?
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 09:23:43 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021123120452.00ab3a50@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus)?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:10:18 -0500
Ken,
My Cyrtanthus (elatus X montanus) bulbs came from the IBS BX in June 1999. They were probably from Bill Dijk, but I can't recall exactly. In any case, my plants bloom with wider flaring upright flowers than yours, but with the same sort of brick red color.
Maybe we should swap offsets one of these days (when it's warmer here). I'll post a pic to the Bulbs_Images list sometime soon.
Regards,
Jim
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 16:31:03 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021123105301.00928a10@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Iris unguicularis
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:53:01 -0800
I grow Iris unguicularis in an outdoor but protected (slightly under the
overhang of the deck) spot, on the leeward side of the house, and there it
has grown and flowered with almost no care at all for about 10 years. It
has survived temperatures down to 5 degrees F (about minus 15 C) without
added protection, but the deck keepts it dry. I water it when I remember to.
There is a somewhat hardier species closely related to it and very similar
in appearance, but flowering later in the winter Iris lazica. It is not,
however, as fragrant as I. unguicularis.
There was a nice article on I. unguicularis in an issue of the Rock Garden
Quarterly about a year ago.
Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon
From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 16:31:03 2002
Message-Id: <3DE014E0.C60D8206@concentric.net>
From: Ken K
Subject: Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus)?
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:53:04 -0800
"J.E. Shields" wrote:
> My Cyrtanthus (elatus X montanus) bulbs came from the IBS BX in June
> 1999. They were probably from Bill Dijk, but I can't recall exactly. In
> any case, my plants bloom with wider flaring upright flowers than yours,
> but with the same sort of brick red color.
To tell you the truth, I was a little skeptical about the parentage I
had been offered for the plant. The container had 'c x e' written on
it. but I was told that it was (montanus x elatus). Problem is,
neither of those species have pendant flowers...
Ken
From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 07:15:37 2002
Message-Id: <3DE092F3.6EFFFFF6@bulbargence.com>
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Iris unguicularis
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:50:58 +0100
Mary Sue Ittner a *crit
> very helpful response from Dirk Wallace. He wrote
> it seems to tolerate most soil types. Acidic soil is definitely not theirpreference but I'm sure they would still grow and flower OK if it wasn't too acidic and they received a dry Summer rest.
> Transplanting usually happens in Spring, after flowering, but if you get
> them at the right time in Autumn they'll still flower successfully. They
> need to be planted firmly and not dried off until they have an established root system. They always do better in clumps than singularly, for me."
> How hardy is it? Who else grows it?
Dear all,
I unguicularis (syn I stylosa) is a very popular plant here.
Transplanting can be very tricky. As Dirk pointed out the bet times at
the beining of their active growing season (latesummer/early autumn and
late winter early spring) to ensure that they are well estyablished
when the heat (or the cold comes along) The period between uprooting
and planting should be kept as short as possible to prevent drying out.
A dried out rhizome make take over year to generate a growing bud again.
I had exprience a lot of loss by rotting of the rhizomes by applying
an organic mulch. Now I use only gravel and sand to mulch the surface
(also confirmed by Dirk).
It is a very variable species according to its geographic origin. In UK
many forms are commercialised. Here we grow the type (large pale bleu
flowers), the white form and a narrow leaved form with dark violet
blue flowers(ssp cretensis.
Here is a posting of Jack Elliot 2/99 (our IBS friend, now incapable
of participating because of ill health) Perhaps it is worth mentioning
the well-known virus that affects Iris unguicularis, especially the good
old-fashioned varieties which arose from N. African plants, and are now
in most sunny gardens, giving lots of flowers from October to March.
Some years ago I collected one or two of the beautiful Greek forms both
dark blue and white, which are much lower-growing and often have very
dark flowers. These flourished for a year or maybe two and then started
deteriorating. They had the typical virus leaf streaking and I realised
that all my old established large forms were in fact virused and had
passed it on to the newcomers. As most old stocks here are virused
this is worth bearing in mind. They grow perfectly well and one can enjoy
the flowers but do not expect to succeed with any new varieties. I have
left all my old ones behind and am starting again with my favourite Greek
forms. Jack Elliott Kent UK.
Kind regards
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site http//www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS" 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous
pouvez commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi à partir de
maintenant jusqu'au fin mars.
(Flowering outside at the moment Cyclamen cilicicum, Dahlia imperialis,
Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Nerine, Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Moraea polystachya Oxalis)
-
From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 09:43:36 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Amaryllis belladonna
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:02:57 +0000
Dear Shawn et al
If they are virused signs will show at the leaf tip immediately after sprouting. Often it becomes masked later on. Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 13:08:39 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021124090559.00bd6730@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Romulea hallii
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:42:52 -0800
Cc aharvie@hawknet.com.au
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Reply-To: "Pacific Bulb Society"
Sender:
Precedence: Bulk
X-pstn-levels: (C75.3595 M97.3217 P95.9108 S42.4468 )
X-UIDL: mpI!!6o?"!UC%"!gJ["!
Dear All,
Lauw wrote the following on the Bulb_Images list "Thank you sharing this image, a very impressive species especially in flower at that time of the year. Tell us some more about this species, how hardy, where does it comes from, makes it seed?"
Following my first meeting of Rod and Rachel Saunders and learning that Romulea was Rod's favorite bulb genera I ordered seed of a number of Romuleas. I didn't have all the books I do now about Romuleas so I just picked ones that sounded pretty not looking at habitat at all. A few of my choices never came up and others bloomed last year for the first time. I started seed of this 9/10/99. It started coming up 11/16/99 and this was the first time it bloomed. Andrew Harvie on the Australian lists grows it too and he said his only set three seeds this year.
I assume that Rod and Rachel collected in the wild. Perhaps Rachel can tell us more about it. I understood from them that this is a cold area, but I am sure she could elaborate. It is very close to Romulea atrandra which is a spring bloomer. They are distinguished by color and the outer bracts. This one has a triangular green median zone on the bract surrounded by a membranous margin. Bob took some pictures yesterday, but hasn't downloaded them to the computer so we don't know how they turned out, but will post one if we have a good one.
The latest Romulea revision Robin Attrill alerted me can be found online
www.mnhn.fr/publication/adanson/a01n1a4.pdf
Anyone interested in Romuleas will probably want to download it. It has some nice drawings of the different corms which is one of the ways you tell them apart. The bracts are also very important.
What it says about where this species is found is this
"R.h. is known from a small area at the top of Verlate Kloof Pass at the southwestern edge of the Roggeveld Escarpment in Western Cape Province, South Africa" (southwest of Sutherland if you have a map--msi). "It grows on seasonally moist clay flats and is among the earliest species of the southern African winner-rainfall zone to come into flower. The species is readily recognized by the lilac or wistaria blue flowers with a yellow cup and the relatively wide membranous margins of the bracts."
I have grown mine after the first year exposed to the elements and dry in summer. Seven seeds germinated and I now have 8 corms so this one is not going to be weedy, but it doesn't seem to be dwindling either and is a nice treat for this time of the year. I am thrilled to have it and grateful to Rod and Rachel for collecting the seed.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 20:07:53 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021124192417.00bd4680@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: What's blooming now
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:26:23 -0800
Dear All,
I got the following message from Peggy Oberg via her sister's computer
In case anyone is curious, the N. viridiflorus has been blooming for several weeks, N. seritonus open this last week, several T. cyanocrocus have emerged, one Moraea has finished flowering and my clump of C. savitus is coming up. (I think I will be moving them to the herb garden for next year.) Also the double pink daffodil I brought to the dinner last spring is named Diatone'. It is a jonquil double bred in Northern Ireland. Here in Southern California it is
one of the last of my daffodils to bloom. Sometimes to its detriment as in April the weather is beginning to warm up causing the flower buds to open too fast.
Peggy Oberg
From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 22:37:10 2002
Message-Id: <013801c2943c$36830520$d7b10544@oc.cox.net>
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Iris unguicularis
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:36:24 -0800
Hi all,
I have taken to waiting to see the first flower before cutting this plant
back. Mostly it's due to having to garden in a rush the last few months, and
the CRS (can't remember it blooms in November). My I. u. began blooming
about a week ago so I raced out there with scissors and cut it back and it
is happily blooming away.
In my yard it is growing in a hot bed, full sun, very hot in summer, lots of
constant ocean breeze, regularly but rather sparsely irregated via lawn
sprinklers. This bed sits at the back edge of the lawn up against a drop off
which goes down a 45 degree slope, so the drainage is probably excellent.
All the beds tested pretty acid for So Cal a few years ago but I had been
ammending them with pine needles. No doubt they are a bit less acid now.
I think mine wouldn't do so well with less water. We only had about 4 in of
rain last year (July to July) but as most everyone has agreed it doesn't
seem too picky and is reliably evergreen here all year - always nice.
Cathy Craig Zone 9b Maritime
Pacific Bulb Society President
Mary Sue wrote
In the past Will Ashburner and Cathy
> Craig both recommended cutting the foliage to the ground since the flowers
> are very short and could be obscured otherwise. I remembered to do this
> finally this year and have been charmed by these gorgeous huge flowers.
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 06:58:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 17
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:07:17 -0400
Dear All,
The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for
sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me
PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 17" in the subject line.
Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify
quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system.
When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a
statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS
treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class
postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address
too, in case I don't already have it.
Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of
the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future
offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com
If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send
clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA,
18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for
their donations.
OFFERINGS:
Pacific BX 17:
SEED:
From Mary Sue Ittner :
1. Allium crispum--This is a really pretty Allium from California that I
grew best for me one year when we had a very cold winter. Last year I
prechilled it with the tulips and it bloomed nicely and a long time. Maybe
would do better with stratification?
2. Allium hyalinum--Another California native with white small glassy
flowers. They sparkle.
3. Allium unifolium--I know this is common, but this seed was wild collected
in Gualala in very wet areas that have not been developed close to the
ocean at low elevations. It is supposed to be one of the easiest California
Alliums to grow.
4. Arthropodium strictum--(syn. Dichopogon strictus).An Australian grasslike
plant called chocolate lily with an interesting root structure. It isn't
dormant very long in my Mediterranean climate
5. Brodiaea californica--The tallest Brodiaea that blooms here in summer
6. Brodiaea elegans--This is one of my favorite Brodiaeas as it is a lovely
shiny purple
7. Dichelostemma multiflorum-Another California geophyte, I think this is a
nice garden plant for a dry summer garden
8. Herbertia lahue--This must be the Chilean one, not the Texas one, since
it grows in winter and is dormant in summer.
9. Hesperantha latifolia--This is one of my favorite Hesperanthas. It is
from Namaqualand, has small pink flowers that are open during the day
10. Iris douglasiana--This is also from local wild collected seed. Ours are
purple.
11. Pasithea caerulea--There are only a few seed of this blue flowered
geophyte (another unusual underground storage organ) from Chile. Jane
mentioned it in her report. I have seen it in the ground at the University
of California Berkeley's garden. I think it might need year round water as
some I planted out where they didn't get summer water did not come back.
12. Romulea diversiformis--Yellow Romulea from South Africa
13. Sparaxis grandiflora violacea--purple Sparaxis
14. Triteleia hyacinthina--California native, white flowers, long bloom in
spring
From Jana Ulmer:
15 Alstroemeria hookeri-- This is a low growing one, very pretty pink
16. Cyanella hyacinthoides
From Ann Marie Rametta:
17. Amaryllis belladonna, hot pink
18. Amaryllis belladonna, raspberry "These two are very different from the
normal pink. This is the first year I'm growing them from seed. I placed
them in a sandy soil mixture in a tray burying seeds just below the surface
then covering with sand, keeping soil moist, in partial shade/sun. I have
several other colors but didn't get very much seed off of them. These two
colors are the more prolific growers. "
Thank you, Mary Sue, Jana, and Ann Marie !!
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 06:58:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Correction to Pacific BX 17
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:45:12 -0400
Dear All,
We are going to remove item #1 from the list because of lack of
certainty about its worth. Please note:
1. Allium crispum--This is a really pretty Allium from California that I
grew best for me one year when we had a very cold winter. Last year I
prechilled it with the tulips and it bloomed nicely and a long time. Maybe
would do better with stratification?
WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE.
Regards,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 08:39:31 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021124154625.00bdb3a0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 07:37:35 -0800
Dear All,
Thanks for all the wonderful responses from so many people to our first topic of the week. This week we will have an extension of last week's topic. Anyone still willing to share methods for starting seed with the rest of us please do so.
This week I invite everyone to ask about seeds that never germinated or seeds that germinated only to die quickly. As Tom said it is one thing to get them to come up and quite another to have them return the following year.
There was a request for help with Colchicum and Crocus seeds.
Diana Chapman who hopefully will be back with us in a couple of weeks wrote this in the past
"Seeds of Colchicums are reputed to be difficult to germinate, but if you have your own fresh seed, and sow it when Mother Nature would you will have better results. It, apparently, needs a couple of months of warm temperatures, then the cool temperatures of Fall and Winter to germinate. So, sow your seeds as soon as ripe. Cover with one to two centimeters of
grit or coarse sand, and keep slightly moist during the warm days of summer. It is generally better to keep the pots outside to subject them to the temperature swings they need, rather than keep them indoors or in a greenhouse. If your seeds don't germinate, don't give up. It can take up to two years for some species to germinate, so keep your pots at least that
long."
Does anyone have a secret for colchicum seed that is not fresh?
Can anyone give me clues about how to succeed with Gethyllis seed? I tried one of the southwestern Cape species from Silverhill seed two ways and eventually one of them started to come up, but I think I killed them. The leaves looked so vulnerable and I don't know if I over or under watered.
Anyone have a good method for starting Aristea seeds and then keeping them going? I have been trying smoke water after having no luck before and this must help because I have had a few species come up using it and have two species still alive, but have lost whole pots of others. I know this may seem like a strange question since the water loving one has a reputation for being weedy. The ones I have tried are from winter rainfall areas.
And finally this is for Georgie and Diana when she gets back. Calochortus comes up really well for me and if this happens when we have high humidity and a lot of rain even if they are under shelter, I lose a lot of them and sometimes a whole pot. If we are having a dry spell, I do much better. This has made me wonder if I'd do better starting them late winter in the hopes that the rain will be slowing down and they would find conditions more to their liking or inside. Is there any non chemical fungicide that people use? Does cinnamon or chamomile tea really work?
I'm sure I can think of many others I have found challenging. How about the rest of you?
Next week we will be talking about Ornithogalum so prepare your questions.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 18:49:46 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021125093724.0091ceb0@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Pasithea caerulea
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:37:24 -0800
In her excellent notes on her BX conations, Mary Sue Ittner wrote,
>11. Pasithea caerulea--There are only a few seed of this blue flowered
>geophyte (another unusual underground storage organ) from Chile. Jane
>mentioned it in her report. I have seen it in the ground at the University
>of California Berkeley's garden. I think it might need year round water as
>some I planted out where they didn't get summer water did not come back.
I'm pretty sure it does NOT need summer water. I saw it growing robustly in
semi-arid situations where there definitely is no rain in summer, and where
it was up on hills with no likelihood of underground water. I would be more
inclined to suspect predation. It can stand a few degrees of frost; it was
growing well in the botanical garden at Valparaiso, where I was told they
had experienced temperatures down to minus 4 Celsius (c. 25 F), and also
inland in the coast range where I assume there is a bit of frost.
Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 18:49:46 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20021125182705.00a0b5b0@mail.earthlink.net>
From: Vicki
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:34:52 -0800
Does anyone know of a single resource that briefly describes different climates of the world? For example if I had a plant I knew was from the Serengeti (Tanzania) I could look up the area and find the average maximum/minimum temperature and something about the rainfall pattern. Is this just wishful thinking, or is there a book or website that can fulfill my dream?
Vicki Sironen
PBS Membership Chair
Preston, WA
zone 7
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 20:11:37 2002
Message-Id: <003701c29500$db23f2a0$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:03:22 -0800
Re problems with Calochortus seeds, Jim planted all fall and winter - though
of course he was planting more than Calochortus - he did Allium, Brodiaea,
Dichelostemma, Triteleia, and even Erythronium, Fritillaria, and Lilium, so
he had a lot on his plate (I helped him as much as I could). As a result he
tended to try to get any "wet-growing" species in the ground earliest. This
was in Sonoma County, where rainfall averaged 30-35 inches a year, but
varied from 20 to 60+ in the years we were there.
Particularly he discovered that the Mariposa-type Calochortus did just as
well or better when he planted them in January or even early February,
before the rains stopped. He thus began to advise people who purchased seeds
of them to plant those species in "late winter." You might indeed do better
with them following that plan. You don't indicate which species you are
working with, but if you confine early planting to wet-growers only (C.
nudus, C. uniflorus, and C. minimus, for example) and do the others later,
you might well have better results. It's certainly worth a try !
The only time Jim used any fungicide was to dip Lilium bulbs before shipping
them. So I can't offer any ideas about cinnamon or chamomile as
"non-chemical fungicides". Perhaps someone else will advise you about those.
Diana will be visiting me at Thanksgiving, so I will try to get her
"on-line" at my computer long enough to add her own thoughts on this
question.
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 20:11:38 2002
Message-Id: <001101c29500$dd0ab400$d7b10544@oc.cox.net>
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:04:05 -0800
A simple Atlas has much of this info I have a small one that lists the
major warm and cold ocean currents, topical geographics like sand dunes, ice
caps, seasonal lakes, etc., land ht above sea level. On one or two pages it
lists climatc info rainfall and air temp curves for the major cities of the
world throughout the year, also lists actual surface temps for the world in
both hemispheres in summer and winter with accompanying graphics.
John Grimshaw has a book out called The Gardener's Atlas that has some of
the information you wish but goes way beyond that too history,
locality(ies) where our ornimental plants' ancestors were found, culture,
etc.
There is also a "Plant's Life in the World's Mediterranean Climates",
self-explanatory.
Cathy Craig Zone 9b Maritime
Pacific Bulb Society President
> Does anyone know of a single resource that briefly describes different
> climates of the world? For example if I had a plant I knew was from the
> Serengeti (Tanzania) I could look up the area and find the average
> maximum/minimum temperature and something about the rainfall pattern
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 20:57:44 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20021125205024.00a12cd0@mail.earthlink.net>
From: Vicki
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:53:08 -0800
I was thinking of a good atlas. Do you have a recommendation for one like this? One that includes the temperature and rainfall patterns during the year - not year total.
Vicki
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 21:17:30 2002
Message-Id: <003a01c2950a$af19a420$d7b10544@oc.cox.net>
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:14:23 -0800
Maybe others on the robin have atlases too. The one I have is The New Oxford
Atlas for Pakistan. I got it from that nice guy who was on the IBS robin and
lived in Pk. But it has world-wide info in it too, quite detailed for a
relatively thin book (paperback).
Cathy Craig Zone 9b Maritime
Pacific Bulb Society President
From ???@??? Mon Nov 25 22:01:46 2002
Message-Id:
From: DrR Hamilton
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:23:52 +1100
Hi all,
I dont have any special secret for colchicum seed except to repeat
the much given advise - dont discard your pots of seed too early. I
have had several germinations this year in the second and third
spring from sowing. Even my own fresh seed does not germinate well
first year , with perhaps a few seedlings appearing followed by good
germination second spring. The other observation with colchicum is
that seedling often dont appear at the same time as mature leaves
appear- they are often much later and could be overlooked amongst
other winter growing genera whose seedlings are beginning to dry off.
Just this week -- the last week of our spring I have C szovitsii
seedlings appear in two separate pots.
I am very much a novice with Gethyllis seed but having read as much
as possible before trying it for the first time this year I think it
is a distinct advantage to be in the same hemisphere as the plants
producing the seed !! Gary Buckley has an excellent article on Suite
101 which will turn up fairly easily with a net search.
Cheers,
Rob
--
Dr R F Hamilton, 7 Beach Road, Snug 7054
Tasmania, Australia
Temperate Marine Climate (USDA 8/9)
Average Garden Rainfall 26.7 inches per annum
- fairly evenly spread (range 21-36)
Temperature extremes -2 C , 38 C.
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 07:18:25 2002
Message-Id: <20021126064311.41806.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
From: John Ingram
Subject: Seeds starting
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:43:11 -0800 (PST)
I have no problem getting seeds to start. It is getting them to continue afterwards that is the problem. I have had good germination results on several Aristea spp. from Silverhill. I got about 1 to 1/2 percent germination on several including rigidifolia, spiralis, macrocarpa, confusa, cantharophylla, and several forms of major. When I sowed them in late fall, I got the small percentage but when I sowed them in the late spring, I get nearly 100%. These all came from the same order so different seed collections is ruled out. I got several packets of A. major seeds. 2 sown in the fall and 2 in the spring. So, repectively 1% and 100%. They were both sown in the same soilless mix (commercially available peat-based mix) with no other special treatment other than both were sown in pots inside inside ziplock bags in an east facing window indoors. Once they sprout, they are slowly hardened off and then they go out into my garden and get watered with the re
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 07:18:25 2002
Message-Id:
From: Diane Whitehead
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:54:35 -0800
In my experience, knowing generalities about the climate of an area can sometimes be worse than knowing nothing.
I had problems trying to grow plants from southern Africa. I learned what I was doing wrong from a beautiful picture book - Namaqualand Garden of the Gods by Freeman Patterson. There were the plants that I assumed were dying from cold, so I kept replanting them in unwatered areas, since I knew how dry Namaqualand is. In the photos, they are growing along streambanks. They do fine for me now that I have planted the new ones next to my automatic sprinkler heads. Photographs can be misleading, though. That might have been the only time there had ever been water in that area.
I must admit that travel is the best way for me to realize the impossible burden I am putting on some of my plants. For instance, New Mexico in midwinter brilliant light such as my coastal garden never experiences even on the sunniest day of midsummer. Do my plants need sunlamps? And Eastern U.S. woodland plants growing between widely-spaced deciduous trees - no wonder they don't like my closely-spaced evergreen forest. Japan, where the grass is green in the summer and dry in the winter since the rain pattern is the exact opposite of mine. Now that I really think about it, native plants make a lot of sense.
--
Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
maritime zone 8
cool mediterranean climate (dry summer, rainy winter - 68 cm annually)
sandy soil
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 07:18:25 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Climates of the wlrld
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:56:47 +0000
Dear All
That a common Atlas is perfectly useless is demonstrated in the case of pampas bulbs. In any Atlas you can find that the maximum rainfall in the pampas is in summer, however all bulbous plants of this origin are autumn-winter-spring growers and summer DORMANT. This of course has led to the loss of countless seed packets. Same in other regions for instance in Chile 2/3 of the country has summer dormant bulbs but in the south and high in the mountains they are winter dormant. And on and on.
And Cathy I make here the proposal that all seed sent to the BX from now on should have a W or a S indicating wether they are cool season or warm season growers. It will be of great help.
Regards
Alerto
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 07:18:25 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Boyce Tankersley"
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:18:19 -0600
Hi Diane and all
Very good points, and the reason why we invest several years in researching an area before we travel there to collect plants. For new introductions to the Chicago Botanic Garden we have focused on areas with similar climatic patterns and daylengths. Basically we've created a Geographic Information System that permits us to identify these locations, if we can get good climatic data from the country or region of interest.
The atlases produced for the former Soviet republics are very detailed and permit us to identify those regions with the greatest climatic similarities.
Of course, on the flip side of the coin, these are also the regions where we are most likely to encounter plants that are so well adapted they 'jump the fence' into the natural habitats. This is why all of our new introductions go through years of evaluation before they are added to the public displays.
The atlases for the former Soviet republics, particularly the Central Asian and Caucasus are very difficult to find, but well worth the search.
Is there a similar atlas for Argentina? I've been searching for a couple of years (off and on) with no results.
Boyce Tankersley
btankers@chicagobotanic.org
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 08:35:12 2002
Message-Id: <1c0.2132076.2b14f46c@aol.com>
From: RichardPIV@aol.com
Subject: Seeds starting
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:59:40 EST
Difficult seeds do seeds directly acquired from the southern hemisphere
and which normally germinate in late fall/winter there, when planted in the
northern hemisphere fail to germinate in northern fall, but germinate in
northern spring? If this is the case, and vice-versa for northern species
sown in the southen hemisphere, then natural circadian rythyms would be the
cause. Mr Ingram's message seems to indicate this is a problem. I also had
what is now a winter growing Herbertia germinate in the spring and grow in
its first summer, eventually becoming summer dormant.
Richard
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 09:34:12 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021126084217.00c28100@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:15:06 -0800
Dear All,
Thanks Georgie for your interesting response. I don't lose Western US Alliums, Brodiaeas, Fritillarias, et.al. It is only Calochortus and as you suspect, Mariposas, and especially those from Southern California or dryer areas. Bob Werra shared some seed with me very late a couple years ago. I thought it was too late to start it, but he encouraged me so I sowed half of Calochortus weedii in February. It germinated a month later and I still have it. The other half I sowed last year in October. It came up in November and we had two months of solid rain and it succumbed. Since we have more rain than Sebastopol, usually averaging 65 inches (165 cm.) and cooler summers I think I'll start all my Mariposas in late winter not that you have shared Jim's results. I do remember the year we had almost 100 inches of rain (254 cm.) and a third of that in March so you can never know for sure. I suppose it makes sense since this seed lasts a few years to try it at different times.
Thanks Rob for the Gethyllis response. I had that great Gary Buckley article saved (and he has written some wonderful ones) and I also found that in Rachel's topic of the week intro. to Gethyllis I should have read before I asked my question she did say to keep the seed moist. Gethyllis seeds growers do you water from below or the top?
John's comment on Aristea seemed to stop abruptly, but not before I was amazed that he had better germination in spring since Rachel usually tells you when to start the seeds and winter growers you start in fall. My Aristeas that had come up last fall went down with the Calochortus when it was so humid. If the ones I have sowed this year do not come up (and they haven't yet), I suppose if I try again I could try starting in spring. They wouldn't really go dormant so it might not matter so much when they were started.
After several trials of starting seeds at different time, I have found that I have much better luck with Veltheimia bracteata I start late winter rather than early fall.
And Richard, when you start the seed from another hemisphere depends a lot on how long the seed will remain viable. If the seeds have good staying power, my experience has been that it is better to save them in the refrigerator in a glass jar and start them at the proper time. With Amaryllid seed it sometimes has started to sprout by the time it arrives from South Africa so you have no choice. Then as Rob pointed out you are growing it at the wrong time of the year. Often you can keep it going a whole year so it can then go dormant at the right time. Andrew Wilson experimented with placing some Amaryllid seed in the refrigerator to hold it off to a better time for starting it. He had good results. I tried repeating that experiment and found the ones I planted right away did better, but I had a very small sample. The Gethyllis seed is very tiny and Andrew did not have good results with it in the refrigerator and Rachel told me not to hold it, but to start it right away. When I used to start seed as soon as I got it at the wrong time I did not have a lot of long term survivors. Some just didn't get big enough before they started going dormant to survive.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 09:50:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: "peter maynard"
Subject: Pasithea
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:46:08 -0000
I have grown this too for several years now from seed in the Archibalds' list; the flower are fugacious ( here today, gone tomorrow} but the colour is striking. Have only succeeded potted in a light sandy loam mix and kept frost free where it has increased slowly but steadily.I suppose the root could described as a hairy rhizome.
It is, in fact, now just beginning to leaf up and so far has always flowered in March. On two occasions I have persuaded it to set seed which has been passed around and germinated OK but the yield is very low, just one or two shiny black round seeds each year. Have never tried it outside but if it continues to multiply will do so in the future
Last time I looked it was a monotypic genus but there has been so much shuffling of late
Peter.Maynard @btinternet.com
S.E. England
Zone 8 Coastal
Plainnatales grate numeras
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <3DE3B5FC.AFEE0E4C@worldnet.att.net>
From: John Bryan
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:57:16 -0800
Dear Vicki
While I have a book regarding the Mediterranean climates of the world, I do not know of a book describing various climates in specific areas. However, there is a resource of which few people seem to take advantage. I refer to the Agricultural Attaché of the country about which you need information. Local Consulates may be of help in directing you to the exact person to contact. I have found these attachés to be most helpful and a much under used resource. I hope this helps. You might also contact the United nations, they might well be in a position to help. Each country i am sure have many micro climates, consequently a book covering all such areas would be, to say the least, very large, and difficult to write. Yet the information from each country can be
obtained. Perhaps you should gather all such and put it into book form.
Cheers, John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <14d.17ebaec2.2b1516ad@aol.com>
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:25:49 EST
In a message dated 11/26/2002 10807 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnbryan@worldnet.att.net writes
Does anyone know of a single resource that briefly describes different climates of the world? For example if I had a plant I knew was from the Serengeti (Tanzania) I could look up the area and find the average maximum/minimum temperature and something about the rainfall pattern. Is this just wishful thinking, or is there a book or website that can fulfill my dream?
Try
www.worldclimate.com
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <3DE3C5F4.C085D731@worldnet.att.net>
From: John Bryan
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:05:24 -0800
Dear Boyce
have you contacted the Embassies of countries for information? These are
available to supply such. I do not know why such resources are not
contacted more often. Cheers, John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <20021126211841.79212.qmail@web10806.mail.yahoo.com>
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: Sand
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:18:41 -0800 (PST)
Where do you all get the sand you use to encourage good draining for South African bulbs? I've got some that I picked up at Home Depot, but I think it's too fine - instead of promoting drainage, it seems to hinder it. But it's the only sand I've been able to find in Home Depot - it's in the same section as the concrete mixes. The only sand they have in the gardening section is decorative; it comes in very small bags at very high prices.
Thanks for any suggestions!
Jennifer
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021126134700.0091d690@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Sand
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:47:00 -0800
There are two approaches to getting well-draining sand, as Jennifer seeks
but has not found.
First, if you have to buy sand in sacks at Home Depot, as Jennifer
mentioned, notice that there are two kinds "builder's sand" and "mason's
sand." The latter is very fine and probably of no use for plants; it is
used to mix mortar, grout, etc. The former is intended for mixing concrete
and has larger particles. To improve its consistency in regard to drainage,
wash it in a sieve to remove the fines.
Second, obtain sand from a bulk supplier. Most cities have landscape supply
businesses that sell rock, sand, mulch, etc., and you may find a better
product, much cheaper, there. If you don't have room for a dumptruck load,
go to the business with a garbage can or two and fill them up.
It is best to get your sand from a pit near the source, that is, upriver in
the mountains where the sand particles have not been washed down a long
way. There will be less fine material and silt, and the individual grains
will be sharper. Sand from ocean beaches should not be used because of
salt content (I think it can be washed out, but am not sure), and sand from
lowland rivers is often too fine, rounded, and silty.
I am very lucky I live near a quarry that produces very coarse, sharp sand
and have room to order it by the truckload. Repotting every other year with
this sand as the basis of my compost, I notice excellent response from the
bulbous plants. I think there are trace elements and also organic nutrients
in the fresh sand.
Jane McGary
Northwest Oregon
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021126135431.0091e510@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:54:31 -0800
I think I remember mentioning this a long time ago on this or the IBS
forum, but will offer it again A wonderful resource on climate for bulb
growers is "Growing Bulbs" by Martyn Rix (Christopher Helm/Timber Press,
1986; paperback). It describes the climatic regimes of all the major
regions of the world where bulbs are common, and also has chapters on the
evolution and biology of bulbous plants. No bulb grower should be without it.
Another resource on climate is a two-volume set that I happen to have (it
is an expensive reference book) because I was the copyeditor on it
"Encyclopedia of Climate and Weather," ed. by Stephen H. Schneider (Oxford
University Press, 1996). It has separate entries on various regions of the
world as well as hundreds of fascinating articles on everything from the
physics of tornadoes to the history of meteorology, most of which are
accessible to the intelligent nonspecialist (those that are not are flagged
as "intended for readers at an advanced level"--reflecting at least in part
my failure to understand them when I was editing them, the copyeditor being
the test case as usual). It should be available in many libraries.
Jane McGary
Northwest Oregon
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Sand
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:04:13 -0800
This will probably be a topic for the whole week. Sand is the most tiresome thing to track down! IMO, regardless of who is marketing sand as 'builders' sand', 'plaster sand', 'washed sand', 'sharp sand', the sand is almost invariably common 'play sand' (or worse, may be beach sand perhaps washed once but still containing salt!). Play sand is rounded and either too uniform in size or has many 'fines', the other sands listed above (all more-or-less the same kind of sand we want), is neither rounded nor uniform in size, has few 'fines', and has sharp corners.
Major retail outlets are not going to have good sand for gardening/bulb/drainage purposes. Neither are nurseries. Your best bet for finding really good sand is to ask a local good plaster guy or a good cement guy. They must have good sand (like what we want) because the plaster sand is used in their stucco/cement/etc. to help hold sticky stuff together and the coarse sand they use has a lot more surface area and sharper corners which perform this function.
If you can't find one of these guys or are too timid (polite) to chase one down on the road, then try any local company that list's it's name followed by the words Builders (or Building) Supply. You might also try to call a local quarry and see to whom they sell their sharp sand or if perhaps they will sell you some directly. It may be possible to find some decent sand at a Farm Supply too.
What further complicates matters is that sand is quarried and not manufactured. Therefore, even if you do find a local source, the quality of their sand from month to month will vary; sometimes really great, sometimes not so hot. So you may want to investigate enough to develop a couple of local sources.
I don't know about Riverside (where you live), but around here the very best and sharpest sand has a lot of orange bits in it and appears very orangy. It's pretty easy to spot the good sand with a little experience looking from place to place. There is a great place up in Mission Viejo for sharp sand (not Sepulveda), one that is so-so in San Juan Capistrano, and one here in SC that is very good and has a great idea. I bought 10 bags of sand from them at $1.50 each (something under 100 lbs each) and when I've used that up (about 6 weeks), I take the empty bags back and they fill them back up for only $1 each. Easy to carry in the trunk and the used bags hardly take any space (since they're no longer burlap).
I hope Patty Colville or any other geology person will comment on this topic. I'd like to hear what they have to say.
Cathy Craig Zone 9b MaritimePacific Bulb Society President
>Where do you all get the sand you use to encourage good draining for South African bulbs
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:04:30 -0800
Does anyone know of a single resource that briefly describes different climates of the world?
http//www.worldclimate.com/, which was mentioned already, is a pretty good resource, once you get used to its quirks, especially trying to find the correct spelling for a city in the area you're looking for. Once you get into an area, you can step in any direction in 1 deg. X 1 deg. increments to find any other towns or cities in the new area that are in the website's database. There are some areas where there is little to no data. Also, you can always find the average monthly rainfall for each month for virtually any location in the database, but often the only temperature data available is a single average monthly temperature (neither the high nor the low temperature is given). It usually gives the elevation as well. Everything is in both metric and non-metric units. They've been advertising for a couple of years now that a much-improved version is being developed and will be online soon. Since it is purely a spare time hobby website done by one guy for free, you can't complain too much that it's taking him so long.
There are a few books that are pretty good. I have the first two and I like the Times book a lot. They give small discussions on each country's climate, so it is helpful as a basis to start your understanding of plants that come from that country. But as Alberto said, it isn't the whole picture--especially when you run into something that is dormant during the rainy season and growing during the dry season!
Times Books World Weather Guide A City-By-City Guide That Will Enable You to Forecast the Weather You Can Expect in Any Part of the World at Any Time of the Year, ASIN 0812918819
http//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812918819/ref=pd_sim_books_1/103-1537106-4040618?v=glance&s=books
Fodor's World Weather Guide, ISBN 0375703497
http//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375703497/qid=1038347289/sr=1-20/ref=sr_1_20/103-1537106-4040618?v=glance&s=books
The Weather Handbook A Summary of Climatic Conditions and Weather Phenomena for Selected Cities in the United States and Around the World, ISBN 0910436290
http//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0910436290/qid=1038347289/sr=1-17/ref=sr_1_17/103-1537106-4040618?v=glance&s=books
--
--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10
Pacific Bulb Society - Treasurer
wpoulsen@pacbell.net
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <007301c29598$0273b420$d7b10544@oc.cox.net>
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Climates of the wlrld
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:06:02 -0800
Great idea, Alberto. For anyone who doesn't have Rachel's catalog, this
would be a very great help. It will mean more work for poor Dell, tho.
Cathy Craig Zone 9b Maritime
Pacific Bulb Society President
And Cathy I make here the proposal that all seed sent to the BX
> from now on should have a W or a S indicating wether they are cool season
or
> warm season growers. It will be of great help.
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <6A29D1BE4E218A4788DFE0211F45B476439032@cbgnt.chicagobotanic.org>
From: "Boyce Tankersley"
Subject: Sand
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:21:54 -0600
Hi Jennifer
I've experienced the same problem. Try asking for blasting sand. It is much coarser.
Boyce Tankersley
btankers@chicagobotanic.org
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <3DE407BD.17C653E5@worldnet.att.net>
From: John Bryan
Subject: Sand
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:46:05 -0800
Dear Jennifer
For the sand, try another builders supply outlet, they will frequently
have several grades of sand available, make sure it is river sand. You
might ask Home Depot if they have a coarser sand available. If all else
fails, ask your local nurseryman. Cheers, John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:32:17 2002
Message-Id: <18GpXY-15xpSLC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com>
From: 320083817243-0001@t-online.de (Johannes-Ulrich Urban)
Subject: TOW difficult seed
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:54:52 +0100
Dear All,
The most difficult seed to germinate sofar I found Sandersonia aurantiaca. I
was told it needs stratification (cold treatment) but this only produced one
single seedling. Rachel Saunders states in the Silverhill Catalogue that it may
take up to five years to germinate..... perhaps I was too impatient.....
Does anybody have sucess in germinating this in reasonable time?
greetings, Uli
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 16:54:12 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: Climates of the world
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:34:37 -0800 (PST)
I agree that it would be very helpful to have the seeds marked for seasons. To save Dell from more work, maybe we could shift the burden to the wonderful people who donate so generously? The information could then be included in the BX emails (in the same way that Mary Sue and others provide descriptions) instead of on the packages, and we could all be responsible for noting the information down for whatever seeds we order. It would also spread the burden around, making it small for a lot of people instead of big for Dell! Jennifer Cathy Craig wrote: Great idea, Alberto. For anyone who doesn't have Rachel's catalog, thiswould be a very great help. It will mean more work for poor Dell, tho.
Cathy Craig Zone 9b MaritimePacific Bulb Society President
>And Cathy I make here the proposal that all seed sent to the BX
>from now on should have a W or a S indicating wether they are cool season or
>warm season growers. It will be of great help.
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 17:08:14 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021126164329.00bc8460@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: TOW difficult seed
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:45:03 -0800
Dear Uli,
Jennifer asked about Sandersonia aurantiaca before you joined as she too had trouble with it. I posted this response from the past when I too wondered about it.
*Sandersonia aurantiaca-- From Rachel Saunders in the past
Soak the seeds overnight in water. The next day put the swollen seeds into
a plastic bag and put in the fridge for 3 to 4 months. Open the bag each
month and check that the seeds are still moist, and if not, moisten them
slightly. At the end of 3 months, sow the seeds normally in wet drained
potting soil - this should be in late spring when the weather is warm. The
seeds should germinate in about 4 to 6 weeks. Keep the seedlings growing
through the summer and they will go dormant in late summer or autumn. Do
not throw the soil away - more seeds will germinate the next year, and
perhaps the year after that too. Our second year crop was probably just as
big as the first year!
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 17:08:14 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021126164510.00d064f0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Sand
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:50:38 -0800
Dear Jennifer,
I think you have to feel whatever you are going to purchase. The best I have found was called "play sand" found at Orchard Supply. What is called play sand one place could be really different some place else. This play sand has the orange grains Cathy talks about. It is much coarser than some of the sand they have with the building materials. Sand varies greatly. I envy Cathy's cheap reliable source. I hope they load those 100 pound sacks for her and that her husband gets them on the other end.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 17:08:14 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021126165135.00c27a60@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Pacific BX 17
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:53:39 -0800
Dear All,
All the seed from Jana and me in the last BX is winter growing. Most of the
parents have come up in the last couple of months or will be up in December.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 18:40:09 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: BX 17
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:40:20 +0000
Actually the 17 offerings in BX 17 are W (cool season growers, summer
dormant).
Of course indicating W or S will add not work to Dell's as it will be seed
donors who will do so.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021126230712.009298c0@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: TOW difficult seed
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:07:12 -0800
Uli wrote,
>The most difficult seed to germinate sofar I found Sandersonia aurantiaca. I
>was told it needs stratification (cold treatment) but this only produced one
>single seedling. Rachel Saunders states in the Silverhill Catalogue that
it may
>take up to five years to germinate..... perhaps I was too impatient.....
>Does anybody have sucess in germinating this in reasonable time?
Once I got some from a seed exchange (I think it was the AGS) and every
seed germinated in a matter of weeks. Perhaps the seed needs to be stored
dry at room temperature for a period? That certainly improves germination
on some South American seeds.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20021126231332.00927ba0@127.0.0.1>
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Amaryllis disease and Galanthus
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:13:32 -0800
I recently received a submission for the Rock Garden Quarterly on growing
Galanthus (snowdrops) in a cold part of the USA. The author, Hitch Lyman,
who has a small snowdrop nursery called Temple Nursery, mentioned that a
disease of so-called amaryllis -- i.e., florists' hippeastrums -- is fatal
to Galanthus, though often tolerated by the hippeastrums. I am querying him
but he mentioned the red streaking the disease causes--is this
Stagonospora? He recommends not growing hippeastrums anywhere near
Galanthus for this reason, since so much of the former stock is infected
with this disease.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon (where I can't plant a hippeastrum outdoors anyway, thank goodness)
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id: <006601c295f3$61237360$8f6a2241@tampabay.rr.com>
From: "Kevin D. Preuss"
Subject: Amaryllis disease and Galanthus
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:00:05 -0500
Jane- here in Florida, I can't grow Galanthus. I am curious if it is the
same thiing. It would mostly affect large scale greenhouse operations. I
will say that Hippeastrums are a pain when it comes to their health issues
(virus, stagnospora), which run rampant unless otherwise desirable, but
infected plants are cruely tossed.
As mentioned several times before, Stangospora is found on wild amaryllids,
so....Here is an ideal fungus to be eliminated from commercial stock using
transgenic techniques (inserting a foriegn gene into the organism).
Best,
Kevin D. Preuss
www.Amaryllis-Plus.com
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: Sand
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:12:48 EST
In a message dated 11/26/2002 4:19:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, theotherjen8@yahoo.com writes:
>Where do you all get the sand you use to encourage good draining for South African >bulbs?
Look for "septic sand", coarse, no fines, excellent drainage.
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:57:58 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Images and BX 17
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:57:58
Dear All,
Bill Dijk has just posted some images of two of the offerings in BX 17 to Bulbs_Images. Judging from his pictures the Herbertia seed from me is Herbertia lahue ssp. caerulea. He also has a picture of Cyanella hycinthoides.
I am sure it would be good to have pictures of seed we are offering too besides W or S, but that really would tax the seed supplier.
Hopefully one day the PBS web page will be up and running and people will be able to post pictures of things we are talking about there. In the meantime there are two Images lists that are open so anyone can join and post images to them. If you have limited space on your computer to download images and have not subscribed for that reason you can edit your membership to get the digest and then you will just get text and not attachments unless there is just one image that day. The other possibility is to set your mail service to nomail and then when someone mentions they have posted an image to the list you can go online and look at it.
To join either of these open groups that some of us on this list use just write to:
Bulbs_Images-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
or
AB_images-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
After you have joined go to the online site
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bulbs_Images/
or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AB_images/
Be sure you change your account information if you are not a member of Yahoo unless you want to get offers from them and then edit your membership to set digest or nomail if that is your wish. Jim Shields or Shayne Willis will help you I am sure if you have difficulties. Of course you can also get messages as they come if that is your preference complete with the images. Jim Shield's group screens all the images for virus before posting them. I'm not sure if the AB Images group does that too, but of course we all need a virus program on our own computers.
Mary Sue
PBS list administrator
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 07:03:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: Sue Haffner
Subject: Veld & Flora
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:00:07 -0800 (PST)
The Sept. 2002 issue of Veld & Flora, the magazine of the Botanical
Society of South Africa, has been received. The cover shows a nice
photo of Watsonia hysterantha growing in granite boulders on the West
Cape Coast. Articles include "Dwarf Watsonias", "Nerine gracilis",
and one on developing Lachenalia hybrids for export.
Sue Haffner
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 13:38:21 2002
Message-Id: <002301c29642$beb16560$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Brodiaea, Calochortus, and Triteleia
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:27:36 -0800
Mary Sue -
More thoughts on Calochortus. The only species you mention is C. weedii (I
assume var. weedii, since I know Bob Werra grows that). Technically, it is
not a "Mariposa" but a "Cyclobothra" - but the same comments apply. Species
from S. California and dryer areas are notorious for germinating and coming
up "like gang-busters" initially - then "damping off" (which I understand is
a form of rot apparently occurring at the soil surface) from too much water
and/or too high humidity. Jim grew all his bulbs outdoors in Sonoma county,
and rapidly discovered he could not grow the dryer southerners or desert
species that way - even at 8 air miles from the ocean, our air was too humid
for them, and even with late planting. Your circumstances are much worse for
these species, of course.
But take heart !! See Diana's article on how she grows "more difficult
species" in the Eureka area, in Vol. XIII, No. 3 of Mariposa (January 2002).
It tells how she overcomes the "damping off" problem for the dryer species.
Hopefully she will sit down at the computer and add more of her wisdom for
you in a day or two.
---------- Georgie
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 13:38:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Winter vs Summer Growers
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:53:09 -0400
Dear All,
I lay my hands out to be smacked since I seem to grow more obtuse as I
grow older and "wiser".
The import of this discussion about winter vs summer growers continues
to elude me. I just don't understand. I grow everything which is not hardy
indoors during my winter/frost season (Oct - May). Inside, I have many
square feet of gro-light space. Also, I have a 30 ft, south-facing window
space. I can control the conditions under which I grow seed - light, water,
etc. Now, am I growing under conditions which obviate the need to worry
about winter/summer growing? I understand how some seeds would prefer to
have their biological clocks heeded and will not germinate readily if the
season is wrong. But does that have to do at all with water and light? Irids
are the ones I always have trouble with regardless of the time of year I
sow. Consequently, I grow very few of them, indoors. Outdoors, in my
climate, rain is possible any time of the year. Temperatures range from 0 F
in winter to 100 F in summer. Winter snow cover is rare.
Growing Mediterranean things outside seems tough. I do have a small
heated cold frame (oxymoron?) where I winter some hesperanthas, romuleas,
geissorhizas and one moraea. They don't bloom yet (except the occasional
romulea). I left those pots in the frame all summer without any water. The
temps must have soared there since the plastic dial on my max/min
thermometer warped. They are mostly growing again and are bigger in some
cases. Talk about malign neglect!
Anyway, I hope someone can enlighten me on these scores.
Cheers,
Dell
--
Dell Sherk, SE PA US Zone 6. Amaryllids, South Americans, Cyrtanthus,
Nerine, Hardy bulbs, and, after a lapse, Lachenalia and gesneriads.
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 13:38:21 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021127160626.00acf030@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Winter or Summer
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:20:43 -0500
Hi Dell,
Now you have posed us a real challenge. Let's see if I can meet it somewhat
Firstly, many of the South African seeds do not like to germinate under lights at relatively constant temperature -- I've wasted many a packet form Rachel Saunders trying to beat this one! They mainly prefer Spring or Autumn, but resent being tricked into germinating in winter or summer.
Germinating a Winter-growing species in Spring will make its seedlings try to grow in summer. Many of them will succumb to either the heat or the humidity or to both. There is less problem with this when one germinates a Summer growing species in autumn as the seeds think they are getting an extra-long spring before the meet their first summer.
Second, grown in a greenhouse, most of the Winter growers eventually settled into growing in winter and resting in summer. Under glass vs. under the sun are relatively major differences when it comes to the practical side of growing these things. My greenhouse space is limited, but in summer I have loads of space outdoors under the sun. I have to be much more careful about adding Winter growing bulbs than I do summer growing varieties.
Third, because they may eventually refuse to bloom or even die if forced to grow in the "wrong" season. This is assuming they get natural light to the extent that they can recognize short days from long days. Some may need this signal to go into dormancy or to come out of it. Most seasonally growing plants require a dormant period to complete their normal annual growth cycles.
Finally, in some cases, you are absolutely right -- it doesn't make much difference with those that are actually "adventitious" growers, trying for a growing spell, however short, any time the conditions meet their critical needs.
Crinum variabile seems to be an adventitious grower, being the only Crinum species native to the winter rainfall area of South Africa. It grows just fine here in summer, and has survived two winters outdoors here, in a protected spot near the greenhouse, in spite of the tendency of our winters here to be wet as well as cold. Of course, I have yet to see any of this species bloom here.
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 14:52:51 2002
Message-Id: <011f01c2965d$9c5d99a0$66f830d5@x7i6x1>
From: "Dr Paul Chapman"
Subject: Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus)?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:38:37 -0000
Ken, Jim and all,
Sorry this has taken me a while to respond - work has been hectic over the
last few weeks...
Having looked at the picture on Ken's website, this plant looks almost
identical to the Cyrtanthus falcatus x elatus hybrids which have just
finished flowering for me. They have the flower form of C. falcatus, the
colour of C. elatus, are evergreen and flower once a year in
October/November, regular as clockwork. I have tried chilling them, drying
them and even threatening them to try and delay flowering by 4-6 weeks, as I
think they would make a superb Christmas pot plant, but with no success
whatsoever.
My plants originated from Frank Holford, who has had several articles about
Cyrtanthus hybrids in Herbertia.
Paul
Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK
South London commuter belt suburbia - zone 9a
mailtocyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From "Ken K"
Subject Re Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus)?
> To tell you the truth, I was a little skeptical about the parentage I
> had been offered for the plant. The container had 'c x e' written on
> it. but I was told that it was (montanus x elatus). Problem is,
> neither of those species have pendant flowers...
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 14:52:51 2002
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20021127174037.00aa30e0@mail.insightbb.com>
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Cyrtanthus (montanus x elatus)?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:46:10 -0500
Cc "Great Lakes Bulbs"
In-Reply-To: <011f01c2965d$9c5d99a0$66f830d5@x7i6x1>
References: <3DDF0908.E6A67FF4@concentric.net>
<5.1.0.14.2.20021123120452.00ab3a50@mail.insightbb.com>
<3DE014E0.C60D8206@concentric.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Reply-To: "Pacific Bulb Society"
Sender:
Precedence: Bulk
X-pstn-levels: (C75.3595 M99.8512 P95.9108 S64.9582 )
X-UIDL: YnE"!\~f!!oE!!&%+!!
Hi all,
Does anyone know where the Cyrtanthus (elatus X montanus) gets its tendency to bloom more than once a year? Has anyone ever gotten (elatus X montanus) to produce seeds with any other parent?
Are there any fertile interspecific hybrids known in Cyrtanthus? I think Hadeco were doing some work with Cyrtanthus hybrids a couple years ago; has anyone heard of any developments from that source?
I have only a limited set of Cyrtanthus to play with, but have never gotten any pods from (elatus X montanus) or the others.
To my US countrymen, I wish a happy and full-filling Thanksgiving Day tomorrow!
Regards,
Jim
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW http//www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 18:43:35 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021127153534.00ac7340@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner