Speaking out again repealing DADT during a Memorial Day speech. He later said: ďIím reluctant to compare myself to George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, but I did get some feedback... and I donít think I said anything different on what they would have said.Ē

The guy has every right to say his oppinion. If you don't agree with it tough luck. Most Americans would take his view. When you can't have your own oppinion in the United states without getting bashed because a minority doesn't share your views, it's time to move or fight back. there comes a time when you have to stand for what is right even if it's going to step on someones toes. Live your alternate life style, just don't push it on me. Peace out

You may disagree with it, but yes, he does Darren. That's America. It's called freedom of speech. Is it disgusting and wrong of him to say that stuff? Most likely, but he has the right to say what he believes.

He does have every right to his opinion and to express it, and everyone else has their right to their opinion and to bash him for his stupid and ignorant statements. I'd like to see him face-off with some of these 'limp wristed' soldiers and see what he says after they pummel his dumb ass.

Darren. Free speech is well protected in the US. It is the cornerstone of our society.Unfortunately free speech and ignorant Dumb A speech is protected as well. How else would Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson still be going if free speech wasn't protected. I did not watch the video on this post, but, what many called hate speech is not hate. Ignorant, but not hate. Hate speech would be more what Louis Farekan (sp?) was saying at the million man march in regards to uncle tom preachers and how they were going to rip from their pulpits for siding with the white man.

This post comes from Eric Alva, a gay Marine veteran who was the first service member injured in the Iraq War:

This Memorial Day was an especially poignant one for me. Just days earlier — and after years of effort — Congress was finally on its way to repealing the discriminatory “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” law. Based upon antiquated fears of gay and lesbian people, this shameful policy has led to the unjust discharges of over 14,000 servicemembers. Many thousands more like myself have been forced to lie about our loved ones in order to serve the country that we love.

But for some, apparently old prejudices die hard. Speaking at the Desert Lawn Cemetery in Yuma, AZ on Memorial Day, Mayor Al Krieger used this solemn occasion to denigrate the service of these Americans. Referencing the recent repeal of DADT, Krieger said:

“I cannot believe that a bunch of lacy-drawered, limp-wristed people could do what those men have done in the past.”

These hateful words are absolutely inconsistent with the unbending physical and mental courage that I encountered among all of the men and women with whom I served, whether gay or straight. Many members in my unit knew I was gay — and this simple truth never once came in the way of our ability to do our job. It didn’t stop Navy corpsman Brian Alaniz from heroically coming to my aid after I stepped on a landmine, earning me the dubious distinction of being the first casualty in the Iraq War. Minutes later, he would become the second casualty of the war. Since then, we have stood by each other — literally — as we learned to walk again with our new prosthetic legs.

Because of my injuries, my wrist might not be as strong as it once was, but my fidelity to this country and its founding ideals has never once wavered. Gay and lesbian service members have always fought to defend this country — soon, we will be able to do so as equals. On the next Memorial Day, I ask Al Krieger to remember our sacrifices, too.

I commend this servicemen for seriving his country. On the other hand, we don't need to know nor here about him liking men rather then women. If he wants to serve our country thats awesome, but why does he feel the need to push his sexual orientation on others? Serve your country and live your life the way you want to, while serving live under the code of ethics the military sets forth. I won't talk about my personal sexual life and I don't want to hear about yours plain and simple. I will fight next to you and will carry you on my back if you get hurt and would expect the same from you, bit I do not want to hear about your lifestyle, that is yor preference and if you choose to live it grate, but I don't want to know about it. I have rights to

Flight maybe you should read up on how DADT works. Servicemen and women are not pushing their sexual orientation on anyone - in fact they are the ones having discharges forced upon them simply because of it. How many people do you work with do you know that have pictures of loved ones on their desks at work? Are they pushing their sexual orientation on you simply by having those photos there? How would you feel if we got a law passed that stated anyone who can't spell at a 7th grade level shouldn't be allowed to have children. C'mon, it's in society's best interest. I'll bet Eric Alva knows the difference between "here" and "hear," "great" and "grate," and "too" and "to."

No one is forcing anything on the other soldiers either. C'mon people who cares who you love. I am a straight married guy with 4 kids and all I would say to ANY service man or woman straight or gay would be "Thank You". I am sure not a strong enough person to do what they do, and they allow ME to stay here and have all the freedoms I have.

I've been on this forum for quite a few years now, everyone knows I type fast and my thoughts are scattered. If you feel the need to point out my typos I hope it makes you feel better about yourselves. What you people don't seem to understand is this, it's not about rights, it's about right and wrong. These people choose to live a lifestyle which is unhealthy, unnatural and in the majority of cases awkward for most people.

Most states do not recognize 2 men or 2 women as a covenant in marriage and for good reason. The simple fact that you vehemently disagree with me shows the hypocrisy that is staring you right between the eyes. Marriage between a man and women is one thing, having pictures up of you with your spouse and some photos of children are fine. On the contrary, when a homosexual has photos up of him and his male partner in an embrace, a kiss etc... It is something most people are not comfortable with. So in essence, they are trying to push their agenda on the average American. What about that don't you understand? Like I said in earlier posts, Iím not a homophobe in any way shape of form, but I won't tolerate being called a bigot when thatís the furthest thing from the truth. I've helped my gay friendís move all day while other so called friends left them hanging. It's not my place to tell someone they can't live a certain way, but I will point our my views when the subject comes up without feeling uncomfortable or embarrassed and with my head held high because I know in my heart of hearts what I am saying is truth. So Gays in the Military, thatís great, as long as they adhere to the ethical standards set forth by each branch of the military like everyone else. No special privileges.

I want my military running like a well oiled machine, we don't need any discourse from anyone in any direction, unity is the key in any situation where you have large groups, the majority doesn't bend or flex for the minority. If you don't like the way the military does things or views things differently then you do, then it's not for you. Do your service, get out and live your life, gay straight bi or whatever, life isn't always fair get over it.

What you people don't seem to understand is this, it's not about rights, it's about right and wrong. These people choose to live a lifestyle which is unhealthy, unnatural and in the majority of cases awkward for most people.

I think this attitude is where most of anti-gay sentiment comes from, I don't believe gayness is a choice, IMO you don't choose who you fall in love with and what you are attracted too. I know personally guys do nothing for me, choosing to hook up with a guy is so foreign to me I could not even consider it. I think people with some inherent gayness in them that choose to be straight look down on gay people for not being strong enough to resist the temptation. Sad.

Darren. Free speech is well protected in the US. It is the cornerstone of our society.Unfortunately free speech and ignorant Dumb A speech is protected as well. How else would Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson still be going if free speech wasn't protected. I did not watch the video on this post, but, what many called hate speech is not hate. Ignorant, but not hate. Hate speech would be more what Louis Farekan (sp?) was saying at the million man march in regards to uncle tom preachers and how they were going to rip from their pulpits for siding with the white man.

I think the US system of free speech is better than ours, IMO you should have unrestricted free speech and be personally responsible for actions regardless of somebody else's incitement. Government control of thoughts and speech is dangerous IMO.

Actually, since it occurs in the natural world flight, it can be thought of as natural to some. And I'll once again mention that they have shown that there are differences in the way brains work that wires them towards what they are attracted to and what not, sooooo yeah, it's not unnatural. I'm not sure where you get the information that it's unhealthy, because I have yet to actually understand that. Now if by unhealthy, you mean the high rates of HIV transmission then yes, being gay is much less safe than being straight, but at least they won't have unwanted kids from random hookups that leads to abortion, bahahahaha.

Look, you can state your views all you want, but when society says that it's okay for a heterosexual couple to show affection in public, then to be fair, a homosexual couple must also be allowed to do that. Look, simply put, you can't help who you love, and they can't help that they love the same sex. I mean, how often have you fallen in love without being able to control it? The same mechanic there functions the same way for homosexuals, but it's directed towards members of the same sex.

And like someone has pointed out in past discussions, if you have to say "I'm straight and blah blah blah," or "i have had many gay friends/help gay people" you should probably look at yourself a little bit more, because realistically, your sexual orientation doesn't truly have anything to do with the conversation of "who can show their love in public and who can't."

Do I find seeing two men kissing in public awkward? Yes, does it make me uncomfortable? Yes. But you also know what makes me uncomfortable? When I'm hanging out with friends that are dating (heterosexually) and they do the same thing. So yeah, that's my stance.

BTW, I think we have more to worry about with out armed forces than allowing gay people to come out of the closet, like the fact that something like 2 in 3 service women are sexually assaulted by their male peers. I think that's a bigger deal than whether or not the guy next to you shooting at the same people and helping keep you safe is gay or not.

Gays exist in our society, and it's about high time people learned that you're going to have to accept that they are here and they're here to stay. And if they want to express their love for eachother in the same way as heterosexual couples do, then more power to them. I may find it uncomfortable, disturbing and awkward, but I will defend their right to do it, the same way I will defend that Arizona mayor's right to trash talk them, the same way that I will support the right of Flight to say that he disagrees with it. But in discourse like this, the argument for both sides is allowed, because frankly, you're free to say what you want.

By the way Flight, if you think the DADT policy is good, then explain how it is that it's okay for straight soldiers to talk about their loved ones back home. Explain why a lesbian servicewoman was discharged because she was seen in public (off duty) with her significant other? She was clearly not doing something that affected the military or the way the unit was run, and she was in her own private part of life, but she was discharged none the less.

I really don't care what two adults do behind closed doors, it's none of my business. My only concern is the push to normalize what most Americans find morally objectionable, no..reprehensible... and what SHOULD be kept behind closed doors. The agenda is to force acceptance by silencing anyone who opposes homosexuality until the each generation becomes desensitized to the point of normalcy.

Darren,
I approach the problem from two different angles-
1. Since I am a believer, I obviously have to consider how homosexuality is viewed from a Biblical perspective.
2. Since I am an American, I have to view it from the perspective of the Bill of Rights as well.

I will address how I believe it stacks up against the BoR first because it's simple...They should have the same rights as any other American... period.

From a Biblical perspective it's an abomination and so I am completely against it( Without starting a theological debate, please) Since carnal takes a back seat to spiritual I have to side with the Bible.

I will always take the Biblical side first.

I'm sorry, but that's the best I can do for you. That's as honest as I can be even though it's probably not what you're looking for.

"I think people with some inherent gayness in them that choose to be straight look down on gay people for not being strong enough to resist the temptation. Sad."

I think that's absolutely nonsense. People don't choose their sexual preference. Read up a bit more or talk to some more gays, and you'll drop that ignorant opinion. It's not a black and white thing. There are some bi-sexual folks out there who can go either way. For the most part, though, gay people are as gay as straight people are straight. It'd be as hard for them to 'switch' and go hetero is for the rest of us to try and just switch and go homo. Of course, that doesn't jibe with with what's in the bible, so some folks turn a blind eye and just say it can't be.

I think Barry hit it about right. I think the only difference is people use the bible wrong. The bible says it is a sin (just like many other things). Not that this is a one for one comparison so please forgive the way it sounds, but it is just like people are born with addictive genes. The bible does not tell you to treat those people different, but, being addicted is a sin in God's eyes too. I think the God recognizes that people are going to have different roads and trials and tribulations. Just because you are burdened does not mean that God wants you to live that way. He recognizes that certain lifestyles hurt people. Beyond that, he wants you to pray for each other and love one another.

Yes, Barry is not capable of thinking for himself. He has to go to an ancient book to be told.

Maybe Barry, Flight, Rod, and this Yuma idiot can get together and get all their obviously repressed homosexual feelings out of their system together, so they can stop hating people for what they hate about themselves.

People who say religion isn't harmful need to look at the crap spewed by these hate-mongers.

"I think people with some inherent gayness in them that choose to be straight look down on gay people for not being strong enough to resist the temptation. Sad."

I think that's absolutely nonsense. People don't choose their sexual preference. Read up a bit more or talk to some more gays, and you'll drop that ignorant opinion. It's not a black and white thing. There are some bi-sexual folks out there who can go either way. For the most part, though, gay people are as gay as straight people are straight. It'd be as hard for them to 'switch' and go hetero is for the rest of us to try and just switch and go homo. Of course, that doesn't jibe with with what's in the bible, so some folks turn a blind eye and just say it can't be.

We are saying the same thing Brett, maybe I should have said
"I think people with some inherent gayness in them that choose to ACT straight look down on gay people for not being strong enough to resist the temptation."

I am not suggesting that all people who rile against homosexuality have this issue but I do think it happens sometimes.

Maybe the more pertinent question is do Christians have the right to suppress gay peoples rights because there own belief set deem homosexuality as immoral, a position which cannot be explained without referencing a bible which requires faith rather than rationality as its power.

Why yes it is asinine , Nor do I condone it..But that saying that people in general have to except Homosexuality because it's programed into the brain of some is the same statement ..... Ask a pedophile & he will cite why it's OK & natural to do so.

Pedophilia generally isn't programmed from birth, it has a tendency to arise from being molested as a child, and it breaks something in the person, and they wind up being similar. They'll try to claim that it's something they can't help, but realistically it is. But when a person is literally incapable of truly loving someone of the opposite gender, like a lot of gay people, how can you condemn them for it? Are they supposed to suppress that and live their lives in a loveless/emotionless marriage? Are they supposed to take a vow of abstinence? What?

And back to the topic of Don't Ask Don't Tell, these men and women do the same damn job that the straight members of the military do, so why, why are we discriminating against them for merely stating that they are homosexual? I mean, besides, if you're worried about being hit on or leered at or something, wouldn't you rather know that someone is gay than to not know and to have no warning when they might behave that way? Plus, again, has there ever been a homosexual rape of another in the military? And if there has (which has probably happened), look at the numbers that that has occurred compared to how many female soldiers have been raped or otherwise sexually assaulted in the military just in the last 8 years. We have a bigger problem with the straight guys in the military behaving poorly than we have ever had with homosexuals behaving that way.

I mean, explain that to me. How is it that these people's personal lives and the way that they are attracted to others is a bigger more important deal than the countless rapes committed by straight members of the military. These gay men shoot a gun just the same as the straight ones. They die just the same as straight men. They save lives just the same as straight men, so why aren't they allowed to be openly gay? Does it really offend you that much that someone tells you that they are gay? They know you're straight, and they won't hit on you, they don't do that. Seriously. With the way people act about what they perceive gay people as, it seems pretty clear that they really don't "know" any gay people.

Nick , I did not watch the video & would never take away from ANYONE that has served & defended us. No I do not hang with gay guys , But do have some BI & lesbian friends.No I do not expect them to be lonely or alone, I only have a problem when it's assimilated into popular culture to be "Cool" . If it's your preference fine but don't glorify it into something it's not.

Last edited by otown_dave; 06-13-2010 at 7:52 PM.
Reason: forgot a apostrophe, Would hate to have spelled something wrong on this post, I might be a dumb ass.

right, I'm not saying it's cool. I'm just saying that that's the way that they live, and even if it is a "choice" that's their life. We shouldn't be telling them that they can't be open about it because it makes us uncomfortable. I haven't watched either of the videos either, but yeah I mean, seriously. If it offends you to know that someone is gay, it's about damn time that you got over yourself, seriously. Who. Gives. A. Crap.

And Dave, that wasn't all directed at you, it was more of a general question to the people who are ranting about how the DADT policy is a fair one or something like that, because it's not. Straight guys in the military are always talking about their personal lives, but it's fine because that's the majority. Gay guys generally aren't going to tell straight guys about the hot guy that they have waiting at home, because generally they're aware that it's A)not something their straight compatriots would understand, B)not something that they really want to hear about all that much because they find it someone disgusting. But to be fair, gay guys really don't want to hear about the "hot piece of ass" the other guy hooked up with on leave.

It's such a double edged sword that it's ridiculous, and there's no real way to be fair to everyone, but repealing DADT is something that can help make it a little bit more fair for the minority that is sacrificing their lives in defense of our liberties (yes, they're sacrificing their lives for you Flight007 and Someone Else, so that you can talk about how wrong their lifestyle is).

Hey Paul. I thought your were a lawyer not some back alley psycho analyst. No one has said hate on anyone. Your reading comprehension is not too good. If I recall, you did not do to well with the difference between illegal immigrant and immigrant either. Your points are mute.

Darren, I am no different now than any other time. I said the same thing about gays every time. A openly gay man watched my oldest daughter while my youngest was born. I have been a honorary lesbian at the hot tub a birthday party for a lesbian friend or ours. I don't hate anyone. I guess people understand cause and effect. Maybe I am less militant sounding because there are less idiots on the board posting Bush posts everyday and not able to comprehend that sometimes political decisions are made with facts instead of emotions.

I did not know you addressed me Nick. I was not going to address your posts but here we go.

If the military and it's so called horrible policy were so bad, then why would gay people want to join? I know I would not want to join such an organization. That tells me, most of this is people wanting to stir the pot. If I had to guess that many who are discharged from the military are for other reasons other than just being "gay" since many gay people serve. It may have been used as an reason to discharge, but I bet not the only.

I just love how you people constantly want to keep milking the someone said their lifestyle is wrong. Nick, your lifestyle is most likely wrong too when trying to measure up to God. Just like mine is. You obviously don't read either. All people are sinners. None are better than others.

On your "it happens in nature" thing. Animals hump other animals as a dominance behavior. For lack of a better example, it is just like when little kids tea bag others in a xbox game online. It does not mean every kid is gay, it is a sign of disrespect.

On your 2 in 3 women in the military are sexually assaulted in the military argument. That may in deed be true. If you ever paid attention, but, the argument was made against allowing women to serve with the men. Now it sounds like we have an epidemic of sexually assaulted women. What if they had the same barracks? You say you want the military to change for a minority of people. How about the majority that don't want the policy to change. A great more of them have died for your right to complain about gays in the military. Many gays have no issue with being in the military. They seem to do just fine. I wish it weren't an issue, but, many people don't like it and they have their rights too. I agree with you on one thing. I don't really want to see two people slobber over each other in public either. It makes me want to get a hose out and spray them down like you do to a couple of horny dogs.

You'd be surprised at the number of homosexuals and transsexuals that join the military just to prove their manliness or to live in denial that they aren't the way that they are. There are likely many more in the military than a small minority. Just because they're in the closet or in denial of what they are doesn't mean that they aren't a certain way. Are they a minority, yes, but I hope you see what I'm saying.

And I am not a person who believes that women should honestly serve in the military in a role that sees combat, which the Engineer crews that they serve in do see combat. Look, women may be capable of a lot of things like men, but a lot of combat related things they are not even close on. Sniping is the one military thing women are genuinely as or more proficient at than men, because women are typically more patient, there are other factors, but yeah. But that's all irrelevant when you look at the fact that women are now in the military and therefore, the issue needs to be handled. Thankfully they aren't in the same barracks, but yeah.

Look, again, gay men are not, I repeat, NOT going to hit on other soldiers in the same barracks if they know that the soldier is straight. They also are not going to be checking them out constantly. That's like saying that women are constantly checking out men that they see as friends. Soldiers typically seem to come across as brothers to me, which is a line that no one would cross, no matter the sexuality.

EDIT: I like your idea of spraying them with a hose. Maybe we should start carrying around water guns and spraying people we see performing PDAs, hahaha.

The creation of Don't Ask Don't Tell was something that was done specifically to hide the minority in the military, it was more of a pointless change than repealing it would be. Besides, I'd rather know someone was gay than not know. It's just one of those things.

Lastly, I'm well aware that my lifestyle is one of "sin." I swear like a sailor, I drink, I eat lettuce, I value money, and I do plenty of other things that are bad according to the Bible, I admit that. And it's because I realize that I am a sinner that i can accept the idea of homosexuals, despite the idea that their lifestyle is a sin. It's hypocritical to tell them that they're evil sinners because of the way they live when we ALL live life in a way that is sin.

Nick, you last line just repeated what I have said for years. Good job. You guys are coming around. With the exception it is not hypocritical to tell someone they are living in sin. It is your responsibility to your brothers and sisters to help them to not live in bondage. Yes, we are all sinners, but, you should not help them live in sin. Lack of a better term, you don't help the drug addict by buying them drugs.

Looks like CA's Prop 8 trial has come to a close. The decision is in the hands of the judge. From what I've read the "defenders of marriage" didn't put together the greatest argument. I guess time will tell on this one.

My guess is he decides against Prop 8, it will be appealed to the ninth circuit with a decision roughly a year from now, and then the loser at that point will appeal and it hits the supreme court around 2012. Then it will get very interesting.