rv65 wrote:Wow I guess it would make a nice rally car. The current London taxi is made by a Chinese owned company.

Yes. It's still the same old company under new owners. Strange that a country that loves cars so much loses all to the Chinese. It's the same with the old MG Rover remains. Production at Longbridge has re-started again a few weeks ago, it's a British designed MG6, beautiful car, but the brain and finance and owners behind it is SAIC of China.

I must say Meeke did pretty well, which I like to see because he gives us an idea where IRC stands compared to WRC.

The second point one must make, I am surprised how well this high centre of gravity van keeps up. By it's design this car should lose about 5s/km to DS3 & Fiesta Mk6, which means you see how much better the Citroen road based engine is compared to the Quesnel DS3 WRC custom engine.

Seriously though, I like retro designs and the Mini is a better retro design, very much in contrast to the pointless New Beetle. Yet as a fan of BMC/Austin/MG/Rover I can't like the new Mini. BMW bought BMC/BL/ARG whatever, took Mini away, took Land Rover away, apparently the BMW 1 series was a stolen Rover 25 replacement, they stopped the gorgeous MG RV8 the moment they took over the group, then spit the remains out again which such castrated had no option but to die and then they claim all the 1960s Mini successes to their name? That's rude! That is like Hyundai buying Porsche, take away the 911 & Cayenne and let the rest go bankrupt on their own, bring out a car called Hyundai Atos 911 and claim the Atos has real Le Mans heritage in its genes! As a BMC original Mini MG Rover fan you just can't like the new Mini!

On the other hand, the Mini retro design came out quite good. I think a Mini success story is much better for the sport itself in general public than a success story for something sounding as cheap as Volkswagen aka people carrier. And, despite their outragious prices that is what they are, people's cars, a form of transport with maxi plastic and mini emotions. So I surrender. We know it is much easer to make a fast car reliable than it is to make a reliable car fast, and for the Mini the speed is there, and when they turn a success I won't object.

Though at least the name VW Polo RWRC groupA fits on my screen, unlike BMW Mini Maxivan Bigman Countryman John Cooper Works Works team WRC ALL4 S2000 1600T RRC (or that new Subaru, which is an Impreza GE WRX Type-RA STI N15 R4 - at Renault a much more reliable car is simply called R4 or if you go really wild the R4L).

Sordo's car seems to run reliable so far too.

Talking Meeke: SS1, short, Meeke beats Sordo by around 3s.SS2, much longer, split2 Meeke already 2s up on Sordo and 1.3s up on cleaning lady Loeb.At that point only Petter (who then got a problem) and Hirvonen were faster than Meeke. Split3 looks like Meeke might have had a half spin or something. Split 4 back again 5s up on Sordo, split5 10s up on Sord, finish 12s up on Sordo. SS3 the early split1 Meeke is already 0.5s up on Loeb and 1.6s up on Sordo, at this point fastest of all! Then he retires with the stuck open throttle. Day2 suop rally: SS1 (aka 9) Meeke struggles all stage with that sticky throttle again, SS2(=10) he retires with this problem plus a radiator leak.

OK, maybe not enough for proper analysis. But my theory for an IRC comparison was always that in WRC Loeb has it easy because there is no competition. Hirvonen & Latvala are difficult to judge, but I do wonder sometimes if they really are on par with Loeb. And Sordo is not bad, but not that good either. And who else is there (bar Ogier now)? We surely can't compare Wilslow, Villagra and the likes with the IRC pace setters. I thought - personal opinion of course - if IRC and WRC fields were mixed, maybe Loeb would still win, but not as easily, not as regularly. I see guys like Rossetti, Basso, Vouilloz, Hänninen would give Loeb a much harder run for his money than any of the WRC guys give him. But it always has been hard to compare IRC ton WRC in competitiveness. But that would now mean Meeke as the 2009 IRC Champ should be better than Sordo. And by what I have seen so far he is. He didn't last very long, but as long as he was there, to the splits he was around 0.5s/km faster than Sordo, and importantly consistantly.

rv65 wrote:OU11 CVK is also a WRC as well as a RRC. I guess Grifone has the kit that can convert the SP to a WRC and back to SP, if need be.

Yep, it seems to be dead easy to convert one back and forth between, hang on, with their new sponsor that would be between a BP BMW SUV JWC WRC abd a BP BMW JWC SUV SP RRC S2000 1600T. (Maybe they could secure sponsorship from Peugeot's old Bandama car stereo firm JVC for the JWC too?)

While we were off, two more interesting JWC SUV s appeared:

Tour de Corse Alex Bengué in OU11 ESV

Ypres Patrick Snijers in OU11 DFO

Latter is interesting maybe for it is one digit up on the second, lesser known Grifone car: OU11 DFN.

Indeed Grifone has two: CVK & DFN. CVK was in Finland with Rantanen as a BP BMW SUV JVC JWC WRC, while before Flodin drove her in Sardinia and Navarra on an Italian round as an SUV S2000 1600T RRCSP. DFN I have only seen as SP2000 doodah, while Snijers competed with DFO in Ypres as an S2000, for all remaining Belgian championship rounds he wants to convert her to WRC. Bengué ESV on Corsica was an S2000 but the FFSA entered Mini WRC for Rallye Deutschland is in all likelyhood Bengué in the same car as a WRC.

Correction, not Alex Bengué but Pierre Campana will drive the FFSA Mini in Germany. It was Alex Bengué though who drove the green OU11 ESV Mini S2000 on Corsica as course opening back up car for the unlikely case that Ari Vatanen should crash.

Looks like the Mini SUV has room for improvement. BMW is using a version of this engine in the WTCC, so it must be decent. Mini hopes to catch Citroen in 2013, but you'll never know. This is assuming Loeb retires by 2013, which could happen by then. Mirek from *** said that the engine was down on power, in his opinion, but it does prove that BMW is committed to this project. Of course, this depends if more manufacturers join the WRC, which means 2 manufacturers are considering the WRC. Probably Renault and Toyota, though it could very well be Subaru. Renault will be tough to beat, but who knows for sure.

Here is a video of a guy in a Mini WRC, he must have had fun, but the cameras were on. I bet if they were off, he would have enjoyed it, or maybe not. He is fat though, which might have made him a little uncomfortable.

Apparently Loeb will continue with Citroen until 2013. This would close off a deal with VW, but thats ok, since it might open up an opportunity for Petter Solberg. There is a saying in my country that says "If one door closes, another door opens." This would apply for VW and possibly Petter Solberg. I think Petter is going to VW, and that might give them a good driver and VW has FX Demaison, which is good. I believe Petter has worked with him before.

I've gotten yet another confirmation that BMW, is indeed using a production based engine in the Mini WRCar. It's the THP 150 unit used in the Peugeot 308, DS3, Mini, and even the DS3 R3. It's also used in the BMW WTCC program.

Interesting article on the Mini WRC on pg. 40 of this weeks GPWeek. It talks about the engine used in the Mini WRC. It also mentions about how they can homologate changes. Apparently BMW has found a few advantages in using a production based motor for both WTCC and WRC. This is the same engine, and apparently the WTCC engineers learn from the WRC rather than the opposite. BMW is working on a new cylinder head that should improve the reliability. This does make it more expensive than a custom built engine from Citroen. Custom built engines is by far the cheapest way of developing a new WRC engine . It can also be changed as needed, or maybe not. Who knows for sure?

Still have to read it. But custom engine is by far the cheapest, sounds strange. But good if it is so much cheaper building an engine from scratch. It means we can return to groupB and save a lot of money!

I am not surprised the WTCC guys learn more from WRC than the other way round. That combination is surely not a bad idea - for both parties, actually.

I just can't help wondering if Loeb wouldn't have wished for a Citroen engine in his Citroen. Because the Citroen engine in the Mini lasted the distance and nearly beat the custom engine in Ogier's car!