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Is There Room for Passion?

Without actually bringing up the recent specific topic *again* I have to say, we seem to be a passionate bunch with regard to certain views and opinions.

One of the Bodhisattva vows reads along the lines of: However inexhaustible passions/delusions may be; I vow to transform them all.

(This vow will have variations on the theme according to translator.)

The question(s) then becomes: is there room for passion in Buddhism? Can one be a spiritually passionate being? What does spiritual passion look like and how does it differ from the passion of samsara?

OK...now here's the challenge, should y'all choose to accept it: answer in three paragraphs or less.

I mean, debate and discuss....if you said yes or no...well, by golly, explain yerselves!!!

:lol: Gods you're an onery bunch!

In Gassho~

*Lynn

I accept that having a “Strong will to the truth” (or a strong will to see reality as it is) could be considered a type of passion. Therefore, I feel that being spiritually passionate is not only possible; but also a requirement.

To speculate on what this spiritual passion would look like could be a kind of idealistic trap. But I suggest that it looks like ZaZen. Samsara may also be just our idealistic thinking or our attachment to the material. In ZaZen we let these things drop off.

Perhaps the passion is in "compassion"? As long as compassion is directed by wisdom, I don't think you can go far wrong. Of course, developing a passionate compassion and wisdom are both rather hard I think.

I am passionate about a lot of things, only some directly falling under the heading of "Buddhism" or "Zen Practice" (I am a nut for my wife and kid, good friends, a good book, a good parking space, chocolate, certain good TV dramas ... now watching one called "the Wire", Great Stuff). Most Zen teachers I know are pretty passionate people about one thing or another, not only Buddhism. Master Dogen and many other of the great teachers could be quite passionate in their words and conduct. I was darn passionate about the politcal situation in the US these past few years.

I would propose to you that Master Dogen's take on passions had a couple of aspects: (1) everything in moderation. Do not become a prisoner of the passions or allow them to overwhelm you. (2) know the still and the quiet hand-in-hand with the passions. This (2) is very much the same as the "multi-level not even one" view of Zen Practice I advocate, for example, "acceptance without acceptance" "attaining nonattainement" "choosing while dropping likes and dislikes" "moving forward but always at rest".

So, I encourage you to savor the passions in moderation, and know the still and quiet within the hot passions.

Gassho, Jundo

PS - The traditional Theravadan view was always quite a bit that the passions are our enemy, and should be extinquished or held down. Zen masters were always more earthy.

I think the key word is, "transform."
I used to be passionate about my life, my work, my posessions. etc.
Now, I'm passionate about Buddhism, my family, helping others...
Though my passions were numberless, through the application of the Dharma to my everyday life, I'm transforming them.
I think it's more about what you're passionate about than just not feeling anything.
We're Buddhists- not Vulcans. (Well... except for Jun's comic book guy...)

Re: Is There Room for Passion?

Originally Posted by Lynn

The question(s) then becomes: is there room for passion in Buddhism? Can one be a spiritually passionate being? What does spiritual passion look like and how does it differ from the passion of samsara?

Onery? I'm not the one changing the rules in the middle of the game. :-P

First I should preface my take on the questions with the statement that in my opinion these bodhisattva vows, like a lot of things in Buddhism are not meant to be taken literally. Instead like the Precepts they help to formulate an intent behind the things we do.
(-note this does not count toward the three paragraph limit)

Yes there is plenty of room for passion in the Way and one can be a spiritually passionate being. The passions/delusions we seek to eliminate can be boiled down to greed, ignorance, and hatred. These poisonous memes can take myriad forms.

Our practice of the Way encourages us to be passionate about life. To enjoy that sweet strawberry as we plummet toward the jaws of oblivion. We should be passionate about being happy in our own lives as we should about creating the environment where happiness can thrive for others now and in the future.

This passion takes as many forms as there are people who realize this. It is not separate from "Samsara", just like you are not truly separate from me.

I think the key word is, "transform."
I used to be passionate about my life, my work, my posessions. etc.
Now, I'm passionate about Buddhism, my family, helping others...
Though my passions were numberless, through the application of the Dharma to my everyday life, I'm transforming them.
I think it's more about what you're passionate about than just not feeling anything.
We're Buddhists- not Vulcans. (Well... except for Jun's comic book guy...)

I want to second this. Yes, I think thar, through our Buddhist practice, our passions will tend to transform into directions less material, less clutching, less aggressive, more charitable, more loving etc. (Just getting older has something to do with this too, although I know many older folks just as aggressive and greedy as when young).

I believe that we should seek to keep our Passions well within the frame of the Precepts. Thus, our passions should not lead to dishonesty, harmful sexual relationships or the like.

If passion is defined as having intense emotions or strong feelings, I wonder if it is possible to commit oneself to an integration of precept practice and zazen without it. We feel deeply believing in the wisdom of the teachings and thus we act.

Suffering manifests in attachment to our belief (our “need”) that something should be different than it is. Alternatively, our passion in pursuing our practice may cultivate a quality of wide open spaciousness, affirming life no matter what it brings. We open ourselves to questioning and to the opportunity to learn from everyone and everything. We honor the passion of our convictions, while remaining open and flexible.

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing".

Becoming uncaring or apathetic isn't desirable, but doesn't our zazen practice help us to acquire equanimity so that we aren't merely shouting 'it shouldn't be like this', but in a calm and unflustered way quietly working to change things?

"doesn't our zazen practice help us to acquire equanimity so that we aren't merely shouting 'it shouldn't be like this', but in a calm and unflustered way quietly working to change things?"

Yes, definitely!

Part of a poem I came across today said:

as I think on the Buddhas who have come before
as I praise and respect the good they've done
knowing only love can conquer hate in every situation
we need other people in order to create
the circumstances for the learning that we're here to generate
situations that bring up our deepest fears
so we can work to release them until they're cleared
Therefore, it only makes sense
to thank our enemies despite their intent

[from Bodhisattva Vow by Adam Yaunch]

---
We can work towards change for the welfare of ourselves and others, not letting any experience -- positive or negative -- distract us from that intent.

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing".

Thanks John, for a needed dose of Shakespeare. I've never heard a better definition of dukkha.