the risk of a split baby decision with a local jury in a complex case makes a walkaway settlement an easy decision if one is offered.

To me anyway, you clearly say that Darden chose to take what Rossi offered in the last minute ... because HE did not dare to take any risk in front of a jury. Darden chose to settle on Rossi terms. Not the other way around.

So what will you do if he does, and it is not to your liking? In his shoes, I would be very hesitant to speak up also, after seeing what you are subjecting JR to for answering your questions.

This is a harsh criticism about my behavior here on L-F. I always appreciated your way of discussing, even when you were a strong Ecat believer. I'm glad you're now a moderator here on L-F. So, I'd like to consider your advices, and see if I can improve my way of participating to the discussion. Could you please specify where I've been unfair or unkind to JR?

BTW, as for the Celani's revelation on an old Ahern-Rossi collaboration, I would like to clarify that I run into it while I was responding to your comment in which you pointed out that Ahern was the only one not fooled by Rossi (1). Until then I have never paid too much attention to this US researcher.

Looking for more info about the relationship between the two men. I also found an interview with Ahern broadcasted in June 2011 by Radio24 (2), a rather important radio in Italy. This radio belongs to the Confindustria (the Italian Industrialist Association) and is regularly followed by many entrepreneurs. If you pay attention to what he says about the results obtained by Rossi, you will face one of these two possibilities: either Ahern was fooled by Rossi, or he was trying to fool some Italian investor.

Tony - you work hard to make this hard. The terms were walk-away as proposed by Rossi's attorney. There was no negotiation and it took less than 60 seconds for everyone to agree right in front of the judge just prior to TD taking the stand. Everyone on the IH side knew there was risk of a confused jury awarding damages on both sides. The R'sters onshore personal assets were B grade condos while the IH side had much more at risk in terms of real assets. While we were fully prepared for legal war and expected to win, when the opportunity came to get this over with presented itself, we took it. We didn't propose the settlement - Rossi did. R knew the cost for lying under oath and I guess he had done enough prison time already - he wanted out so that he could have the chance to continue his WCS career.

Tony - you work hard to make this hard. The terms were walk-away as proposed by Rossi's attorney. There was no negotiation and it took less than 60 seconds for everyone to agree right in front of the judge just prior to TD taking the stand. Everyone on the IH side knew there was risk of a confused jury awarding damages on both sides. The R'sters onshore personal assets were B grade condos while the IH side had much more at risk in terms of real assets. While we were fully prepared for legal war and expected to win, when the opportunity came to get this over with presented itself, we took it. We didn't propose the settlement - Rossi did. R knew the cost for lying under oath and I guess he had done enough prison time already - he wanted out so that he could have the chance to continue his WCS career.

Thanks Dewey. That was actually about as clear as you ever expressed yourself. And I also do believe Rossi wanted to continue his "career" without any messy IH contractual and IP issues hanging over his head.

I'm curious to know though, since you obviously found the walkaway such an great deal. Why did you not offer it way earlier to save yourself a lot of lawyer money? Or did you? Sort of doubt it since some people (Mats Lewan?) even claim Rossi offered to buy back the IP/license at some point?

This is to be measured, validated and replicated by multiple trusted sources. These sources must include UL & various other US based National laboratories, that get the same results.

UL is not the business of doing physics experiments. I do not think they would agree to do this, or to certify the heat. They certify product safety. They will not certify safety until the physics establishment agrees:

The effect is real.

The effect can be explained by a theory that nearly all experts agree with.

Both the theory and actual practice show that the effect is totally safe.

Actual practice shows that the devices are totally under control, and predictable.

Thousands of prototype devices have been manufactured and tested in every major experimental physics lab in the world.

Thousands more prototype devices have been tested over millions of hours by biologists to assure that they have no deleterious effects on animals, plants or the environment.

Needless to say, all of this will cost billions of dollars. It will take years, if not decades. This is the 21st century. The public will not stand for the introduction of a radical new and possibly dangerous technology which has not been tested extensively at the cost of billions of dollars. Look at the reaction to one pedestrian death caused by self-driving cars.

First world governments will also not allow you to develop something like this in your garage, or a warehouse in Doral, Florida. They would be insane to allow that. The moment they find out that it is a real nuclear effect that works by unknown principles, they will insist it be tested by actual experts in controlled conditions, because at this stage, no one can say with certainty that a cold fusion device cannot possibly explode with as much energy as a small nuclear bomb. Third world governments and nations are not capable of developing something like cold fusion.

UL is run by engineers, not physicists. They are not going to pioneer physics theories or certify the safety of a device that operates by unknown & mysterious forces. NIST and the Patent Office is also not in the business of doing physics experiments. They will not "certify" anything like this, in any sense. They will not touch it until the physics establishment understands it completely.

Twist and Turn Tony - Did I say anything about R's walkaway settlement being a great deal? No I did not.

We came prepared to fight and Rossi was the one who chickened out right at showtime. He was going to get his ass kicked in court and he knew it.

We wanted to kick his ass in court and had no plans to settle which really surprised the WCS - I bet he sat by the phone waiting for a call all weekend just before the trial.

Rossi never offered to buy back anything in terms that real folks could comprehend. That story is only real on Planet Rossi.

Nobody in their right mind outside of Planet Rossi should ever believe what Mats has to say - ever again. He is tarnished and tainted goods.

Display More

Agreed. You did not say THAT. You said "easy decision" and "60 seconds for everyone to agree"... So maybe not great, but pretty good?

And, well, surprise. I don't really trust your assessment on Rossi feelings, doings and knowings during those intense moments .... although I'm pretty sure that you "wanted to kick ass", but it does not actually mean that you were able to do it... As you said, you considered to risk too high.

But, this, regardless your feelings about Mats, however indicates there is some grain of truth in the rumored buy back offer.

people cannot even agree that Fleischmann&Pons proved excess heat above chemistry, that He4 is proportionate to Heat, that reaction happens near the surface, and that Lugano paper contain an error on emissivity, and that Doral was a (a what?)...

These are critical issues. There cannot be a bet unless both sides have some common ground and are likely to agree about the outcome of events. I do not think both sides will agree except in extreme cases:

POSITIVE Rossi is recognized by the establishment; news of his discovery is in the headlines worldwide, and he begins selling billions of dollars in contracts, if not actual goods.

NEGATIVE Rossi admits that he is a complete fraud and he never had anything.

A lukewarm outcome somewhere between these two is not likely to convince one side or the other. More rumors that Rossi has sold a machine to an unnamed company will not convince the negative side. The Penon report did not convince the positive side that the Doral test was a farce and a grotesque fraud. So I see no common ground.

Frankly, I would never bet with a person who does not agree that the Penon report was proof that the Doral test was a fraud. I would say that person is technically illiterate. If the person said, "Doral was fake but some of the earlier tests seem real" I would agree. We would have common ground. I would also not bet with someone like Axil Axil, who refuses to look at the Penon report! That's beyond the pale. Someone who says: "I believe Rossi so much that I will not even look at the evidence Rossi himself presented" has a screw loose.

(Actually, I find bets, wagers and gambling repugnant and I would never bet about anything. Except I do buy lottery tickets from time to time.)

If Rossi has something saleable, getting his IP back and all the sales territories is worth a lot more than $90 million. Time will tell. Running down Rossi proves nothing.

Do you really think, that IH would have let Rossi from the hook or out of the contract if there was a probability that his junk worked od did show signs of COP > 1? They tried hard and were fooled, so Rossi and his IP running away from a partner who was ready to invest did only show he had indeed not a single 1 mW of Excess Heat to sell.

Rossi ran himself down. Read the Penon report. Nothing that any critic has said was one-tenth as devastating to him as that report. A report that he himself released, and that he says proves his claims!

I have never seen such a clear-cut case of fraud. Even is his pretend customer, which was himself, was not as damning in the technical sense. Even his outrageous claims about an invisible & impossible heat exchanger -- that he cooked up overnight -- are not as damning.

I simply cannot imagine how any technically literate person (such as you) could look at that report and not conclude that the Doral test was fraud. I get that earlier tests might have been real, although it seems unlikely, given the magnitude of the Doral fraud.

AA - The WCS has declared that all IP leading up to his 1MW "system" is worthless as exhibited in his haste to abandon the platform and move on to "something better". In doing so, he has totally affirmed the IH interpretation/ decision.

Tony - The WCS has demonstrated quite an accomplished proclivity for getting in and out of contracts as well as prisons. He took $11.5M from us, didn't perform, attempted to litigate to cover his lack of performance then chose to walk away and escape.

I like your Freudian chicken references. It shows again what kind of animal you are.

However, something about the picture you try to paint is not right, is it? Rossi backed-up by a ragtag of relative unexperienced attorneys against the Jones Day all-star team with APCO (or was it CAPO) backing and he chickened-out? I believe it is more plausible that the Italian fox dragged you into such a big, costly mess that IH was very eager to weasel out when an opportunity was offered. You got played, Mister.

BTW, as for the Celani's revelation on an old Ahern-Rossi collaboration,

It is not a revelation. It is a confused rumor. Celani is nice fellow but he gets confused at times, and makes mistakes. There is no chance Ahern worked with Rossi. I know them both well enough to know they could not work together for more than five minutes. Heck, they couldn't even be in the same room without an adverse reaction, if not a matter-antimatter explosion.

Plus, as I said, even if they did work together, they published nothing, so nothing came of the collaboration. So if it happened it is a trivial matter. It is none of your concern, and frankly, none of your business. I do not understand why you are so keen to poke into people's private lives searching for "proof" of your conspiracy theories.

Frankly, I would never bet with a person who does not agree that the Penon report was proof that the Doral test was a fraud. I would say that person is technically illiterate. If the person said, "Doral was fake but some of the earlier tests seem real" I would agree. We would have common ground. I would also not bet with someone like Axil Axil, who refuses to look at the Penon report! That's beyond the pale. Someone who says: "I believe Rossi so much that I will not even look at the evidence Rossi himself presented" has a screw loose.

Jed, you are missing the point. The majority here say Rossi has nothing, will have no production line, no sales. If they are right the result will be clear cut. Nothing (except negative comments ) will be published. They would win their bets.

All the fuss is about what happens if they are wrong Surely that should be impossible if they have their facts right! So it looks like they are not as certain as they make out and will make all sorts of provisions to justify not betting.

You say you won't bet with me because I'm technically illiterate. But I obviously am technically literate. As an aside, I would have thought that to be a really feeble reason not to bet as that would enhance your chances of winning.

I didn't even propose the bet. Mark H did. I simply saw it as an opportunity to show what the skeptics really think. I guess I will end up with only one diehard better in the end - if that.

I think the implementation will be slow in this country and not cause that much excitement until other applications besides industrial heat are available. Mainstream science will be very reluctant to admit they were wrong so publishing will be delayed.The government will surely try to regulate it and take for ever. It should be much faster in countries like China, if it turns out to be real.

Jed, you are missing the point. The majority here say Rossi has nothing, will have no production line, no sales. If they are right the result will be clear cut.

Rossi has nothing at present. That is a fact backed by loads of evidence in the lawsuit, including his own testimony. He presently has no production line and no sales. Whether he will have them in the future is what is at issue. If, in the future, he claims has a production line but it is secret then the result will not be clear.

In the past he often claimed he production lines, customers and so on, but these were all lies, as you see in the lawsuit documents.

Nothing (except negative comments ) will be published. They would win their bets.

Nothing will be published where? It is unclear to me what you mean. Do you that nothing will be published in the mass media? In that case, Rossi will say that his factories and customers are secret. As I said, that cannot be taken as proof of anything, because he is a notorious liar.

You say you won't bet with me because I'm technically illiterate. But I obviously am technically literate. As an aside, I would have thought that to be a really feeble reason not to bet as that would enhance your chances of winning.

If you have read the Penon report, yet you still think the Doral test might have been real, or that it might have some technical merit, then you are technically illiterate. At least with regard to this subject you know less than a high school kid who understands Volkswagen engines and IBM computers circa 1968 (me). You are deluded. Of that I am sure!

Perhaps you are not deluded about other subjects. A person's comprehension is not one unified entity that applies equally well to all subjects. A person can be a rational, well-trained expert about one technical subject, and a blithering idiot about some other technical subject. This happens when there is some emotional interference from an belief outside of the person's area of expertise. For example, some (but by no means all) religious people cannot understand the most basic facts about evolution because their religious beliefs conflict with these facts. Anther example are mainstream physicists such as Huizenga and Shanahan who are reliable, rational experts in their own fields. But, when the subject of cold fusion comes up, they suddenly go off the rails. They begin blathering outlandish, grotesque, unscientific nonsense. Out of the blue, they assert that you can heat a handheld steel object on Sunday and it will still be hot on Wednesday. They get angry and say there is nothing strange about this notion, and everyone should agree with them. If this were any other subject, they would never say such crazy things. Cold fusion triggers an emotional reaction, and their training and rationality goes out the window.

If the government does not regulate a revolutionary, totally unknown nuclear reaction, then we might as well not have a government. I cannot think of anything more important or more appropriate for the government to do than to regulate cold fusion. At least until the reaction is totally under control and everyone is sure the reaction cannot cause harm, including as much harm as a small scale nuclear bomb. Anyone who tells you that is impossible does not know what he is talking about. NO ONE can rule that out, although for various technical reasons it seems unlikely.

It should be much faster in countries like China, if it turns out to be real.

I doubt it. I probably know more about East Asian countries such as Japan and China than you do. Not to pull rank, but I studied their societies, governments, history and literature for many years in college, and I read their mass media, so I have some relevant expertise here. Plus I am in contact with researchers in Japan and China. I doubt there is any significant research going on in either country. There is strong opposition to the research. This opposition will not subside unless opposition in the U.S. and the E.U. subsides. At that point, all three will be at the starting gate. I think it is more likely the U.S. or the E.U., especially Italy, will take the lead, as we have done in things like AI and self-driving cars. All of the major Japanese automobile companies are pouring billions of dollars into self driving cars. There is a great deal of coverage of this research on Japanese national TV (NHK). As far as I know, every one of these Japanese funded research projects is being conducted in the U.S., mainly in California, by the usual international cast of geeks. They include many brilliant Japanese geeks, of course. The projects are usually in the U.S. for reasons beyond the scope of the discussion.

Rossi has nothing at present. That is a fact backed by loads of evidence

Jed,

I don't agree with a lot you said in your long post. IF Rossi's device works, China will adopt it far faster then the US because of their pollution problems and ability to bypass regulations. I also know of a lot of good research in that country that you casually.dismiss.

You were wrong about what I think, the timing of PCs introduction, and that glass furnaces are regulated (apart form emissions,) but you say I don't know what I'm talking about.