When I first heard about Mary Kay Letourneau I started researching. Who, what, where, when...WHY????

The thought of a FEMALE teacher who would sexually abuse/rape a male student and have that student fall in love and defend their teacher stumped me. I continued to research and I learned a lot.

My question to you, SKMB members, please.

Why do I have an instant visceral, nauseating, and VIOLENT response?
I study serial killers in the hope of becoming a profiler and I can compartmentalize my emotions. I HAVE to keep my emotions in check to be able to find the serial killer and bring them to justice.

Yet, when I read about these teachers/molesters/rapists...I ...react so differently. My first thought is violence.

I asked my son, "If you had a 14/15 year old son and you found out that a female teacher had been having a sexual relationship with him how do you think you would react?

He thought about it and said, "I would call the nearest friend or family member and tell them what I had discovered and beg them to call the police and come get me before I went to that teachers house and beat the sh!t out them. I would call 9-1-1 and tell them, BEG them, to stop me and/or go and protect that teacher before I can get to her." He continued, " I don't care if it's a female or male teacher who raped my child. I know I would be crazed and be hell bent on hurting that person."

I was fascinated. My son is a wonderfully intelligent, laid back, and understanding young man. He has been through a lot of hardships and cuts people an enormous amount of slack. I asked him why he would behave so violently-it's totally against his nature to be violent. And he told me, "This is my child. 14/15 years old. S/he has no experience in defending themselves. Against a predator who is an adult and an authority figure. I would f*cking kill them if no one stopped me."

That was ...stunning. BTW- I asked his permission to quote him on this thread.

Beside me being long-winded, what do you think?

What do you think about the growing incidents of female teachers molesting/raping their male students? How do you think you would react?

Maybe your response is because it is more personal than just studying serial killers and such like (very interesting though, they absolutely fascinate me). Also these people are in a position of absolute trust and we drop of our children off everyday with them with the faith that they are going to keep them safe from harm for 6-7 hours a day. That is a lot of trust we put in these people.

I think your response is because you violently want to deny that a female is capable of such a thing. Everybody wants to see women as nurturers, healers and embrace all live in their arms and protect it from harm. Obviously, nothing is further from the truth. Women are capable of acts every bit as heinous as any man.

I don't think there's a rise in the incidence, just the reporting. There really is nothing new under the sun.

My advice to you, considering your career choice, is to make an earnest study of human beings as they are, not as they are idealized. If you want to be sane. Being emotional to such a degree might get in your way if you want to do the job right. A person given to strong emotions that they can't contain can be so much ammunition for sociopaths and psychopaths.

Another thing that might be taken into consideration: As someone who fell into the hands of a pederast at the tender age of 12, I can attest that most of the damage to this young person will come from all the hysteria of his victimization. When a toddler bumps their head on the coffee table, often times they'll just furrow their brow, rub their head and move on. But. Enter Hysterical Mother: "Oh my poor, poor baby! Oh my! Oh gosh!" Suddenly, this toddler that was previously picking themselves up and dusting themselves off is now wailing at the top of their lungs! It has taken me the better part of the last 30 years to "recover from my recovery." The so-called "helpful people" did more damage than my stepfather ever did. It took me 30 years to drag myself out of victimhood and all the other things that help people stay unwell.

Cause and effect are enough to deal with without adding extra and unnecessary causes and effects. It only makes things worse. And honestly? Songs have been sung about this thing: "Van Halen-Hot for Teacher", "The Police-Don't Stand So Close To Me" This is like, every young boys wet dream! That in no way condones her actions. Young girls flirt with their uncles-that's normal-but the uncle does the responsible thing and sets the niece straight in a loving way that preserves her innocence and dignity. The responsible teacher ignores the flirtations and if they persist, she asks for him or her to stop behaving inappropriately in class-again, while preserving the youngsters sense of dignity and their innocence. Failing that? Parent teacher conference time. But now a mountain has been made out of a mole hill and this young man is being dragged into far worse than what's merited. He needs to have his hide tanned and she needed to be fired. End of story.

I had a similar situation wherein I had an opporutnity-at the age of 38-to get intimate with a young man just 3 months shy of turning 18. I was drunk as all getup. He was too. I nibble his ear a little. We almost kissed, then my sanity returned the moment I saw how young he was and so innocent. It frightened me to see such trust and vulnerability in the eyes of someone who was pretty much looking like they were waiting for a kiss. I freaked out and a couple days later I turned myself in to the cops in hysterical tears. Officer L., being the good and perceptive cop he was, had me taken to the hospital for treatment. He visited the parents, friends of ours. In the end, this poor young man was humiliated by what it got blown up into. I approached his mother up front and aired it out and although she was angry for a long time, she respected me for facing her. Everything turned out okay. That didn't stop him from trying to manipulate me a few times, "Gee, it's hot! We should get some whiskey, I feel like skinny dipping." Ornery little ****.

So. I was 38, he was 3 months shy of 18. I nibbled his ear a little but didn't kiss his mouth or fondle him or anything else like that. How does it work? If I kissed him or took it further would I have been a predator or monster? If it had happened the same way but the day he turned 18 would I NOT be a predator or a monster? If I had been 38 and attacked by a 17 going on 18 man in an alley would he be a monster?

What makes a monster? The desire or the deed carried out? You tell me.

Also these people are in a position of absolute trust and we drop of our children off everyday with them with the faith that they are going to keep them safe from harm for 6-7 hours a day. That is a lot of trust we put in these people.

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I think this is a very important point. Kids should be safe in school, and parents/families should not have to worry that they will get hurt. Also, I can only imagine how trapped children who are victims of abuse by teachers must feel. It's not like they can stay home, and if they report it, they are afraid of the reactions from other students and teachers. Teachers who do something like this, should never be allowed near a school again, or any work that involves children.

So. I was 38, he was 3 months shy of 18. I nibbled his ear a little but didn't kiss his mouth or fondle him or anything else like that. How does it work? If I kissed him or took it further would I have been a predator or monster? If it had happened the same way but the day he turned 18 would I NOT be a predator or a monster? If I had been 38 and attacked by a 17 going on 18 man in an alley would he be a monster?

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Hello ZMeister. You have many interesting points. I just want to comment on this, because in Norway, Sweden or Germany (and many other European countries) this would not have been a crime. If you had started a sexual relationship with the young man, your morals may be questioned, but it wouldn't be illegal. The age of consent in Norway is 16, in Sweden it is 15, and in Germany it's 14. So, this is a matter of where you live, I guess. The European countries vary between 14-18, but for most countries, the age of consent is under 18.
I must point out, that teachers are not allowed to have sexual relationships with their students in any of these countries, even if they are over the age of consent. This has to do with security and trust, teachers should never use their position to get sex.

I'm not sure if you are talking rape or statutory rape. To me, both are wrong. But, overall, society does not see a grown woman with an underage boy as wrong...think back to Roland's first experience with a woman. It was educational.

It is different because you are specifically speaking of a TEACHER. An adult who has direct (parental) authority over the young man, which makes a teacher/student sexual relationship almost incestuous.

~~

Also, when you say you have such a violent response, do you mean to specifucally older women? Or anything involving minors? Or any of these monsters? If it's all of them, you might want to rethink your career choices. I am not trying to be flip. But if you have such a violent response all the time, you would not be capable of doing the job properly and the mental toll would be more then anyone could live with.

Hello ZMeister. You have many interesting points. I just want to comment on this, because in Norway, Sweden or Germany (and many other European countries) this would not have been a crime. If you had started a sexual relationship with the young man, your morals may be questioned, but it wouldn't be illegal. The age of consent in Norway is 16, in Sweden it is 15, and in Germany it's 14. So, this is a matter of where you live, I guess. The European countries vary between 14-18, but for most countries, the age of consent is under 18.
I must point out, that teachers are not allowed to have sexual relationships with their students in any of these countries, even if they are over the age of consent. This has to do with security and trust, teachers should never use their position to get sex.

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Well, yes. That is true. Age differences and legalities aside, person's in position of authority should never use that to lean on someone for sex, including professors and students even though the students might be 18 or older. Or 12 step newcomer and their sponsor, etc. Although students shouldn't use sex to get grades either. In the case of college students. Ideally, what I learned from my own personal experiences and research on the net to help me understand is that persons are best off sticking with their own peer group. Unless you're rich, of course. Then you're either Hugh Heffner or eccentric instead of your garden variety pervert.

It's happened here recently in area schools at least twice, fairly close together. In both cases, I think the female teachers were criminally charged, avoided jail time, I think, lost their careers, and one lost her husband and kids.

We get upset because we have vulnerable kids, whom we're supposed to protect, with people in a position of trust who are supposed to help protect them, and those persons violate that trust, victimize those whom they're protecting, and it's just wrong at every level.

I really have no idea how I'd react if one of my kids or grandkids was involved.

Maybe your response is because it is more personal than just studying serial killers and such like (very interesting though, they absolutely fascinate me). Also these people are in a position of absolute trust and we drop of our children off everyday with them with the faith that they are going to keep them safe from harm for 6-7 hours a day. That is a lot of trust we put in these people.

...I just watched a segment on 20/20 regarding a female teacher sexually abusing a 14/15 year old male student...It's not a new phenomenon...When I first heard about Mary Kay Letourneau I started researching. Who, what, where, when...WHY????

The thought of a FEMALE teacher who would sexually abuse/rape a male student and have that student fall in love and defend their teacher stumped me. I continued to research and I learned a lot.

My question to you, SKMB members, please.

Why do I have an instant visceral, nauseating, and VIOLENT response?
I study serial killers in the hope of becoming a profiler and I can compartmentalize my emotions. I HAVE to keep my emotions in check to be able to find the serial killer and bring them to justice.

Yet, when I read about these teachers/molesters/rapists...I ...react so differently. My first thought is violence...

Beside me being long-winded, what do you think?

What do you think about the growing incidents of female teachers molesting/raping their male students? How do you think you would react?...

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Let me say at the outset that my thoughts and comments must be taken with a grain of salt as I've never had children, nor will I be trying to imagine having had as I try to respond to the OP's question. Someone posted the belief that the incidents of female teachers being guilty of this hasn't increased, that just the reporting of them has, but I'm not sure that's entirely true or that that idea doesn't diminish that society itself might be changing; warping. In any event it's now very apparent that because women are human too that they are sometimes doomed to suffer the consequences of the forbidden fruit. My hope is that people don't react more violently toward a woman guilty of the transaction than were she a man, though I fear such reaction is human nature.

As a nurse I am given the public's trust. I do well to daily re-sober myself with the reminder of that fact. Teachers are in the same situation. There are lines drawn by laws written by society within which we all must stay in order to be safe and sound. Teachers, nurses, policemen, politicians (God help us all), reside closest to certain of these lines. Parents, family, for instance have their lines. A society is healthy when it's members stay within the lines, but no society is perfect. Ask any parent if s/he has never done or said something to their children they regret, in order to get the point. Transgressions are relatively forgivable, to a point of non-forgiveness; some are very difficult to forgive, and some only technically so.

In nursing you have to "remain professional". A cashier mustn't tell a given obnoxious consumer what s/he is really thinking. There is an unwritten law concerning these things. Notice: there's no touching; even still there's a law. Nurses and teachers must not abuse or neglect their subjects. I do not know if there are reasonable laws which actually forbid a teacher to look upon a student this way or that, though there may well be. (I say there should be a law preventing policemen from looking at people a certain way). So, it's easy to understand why it's wrong when a nurse or teacher touches a subject in a way other than that which is known to benefit, or at least not harm, the subject. (Arguments per experimental teaching methods will be heard, but only the warped radical can conceive of sexual arousal, not to mention intercourse, as beneficial to any student, even an adult one).

Viscerally negative reactions to behavior which borders on the unforgivable are not wrong, they are how the societal organism prepares to reject or otherwise deal with a foreign body. Unless by a revolutionary mass in order to finally dispose of a corrupt government, actual violence is never required, and hopefully even in that case. In fact, societies' laws include some which protect even the transgressor from violence.

As for your statement expressing your belief that you must keep your emotions in check, Siggy, I think when you realize that some things are society's job, not yours, you will have little trouble focusing your intellect over your emotions.

My brother stopped at the scene of an accident the other day. He was there before responders. He helped a woman involved in the accident who was very shaken up and more than likely going into shock. When the paramedics arrived, the guy asked her if he could touch her to examine her for injuries. Now, if she was unconscious, they would've just done it, but the fact that she was conscious and talking, he asked her permission first.

And, I know a man who was having sex with a high school teacher when he was a student. As were a few friends of his (same teacher). But, they never reported it because they were horny teenage boys, they liked it, she was hot and willing and everyone was getting what they wanted. (Not condoning this AT ALL.) It's abuse. I'm just telling you his version of his incident.

My brother stopped at the scene of an accident the other day. He was there before responders. He helped a woman involved in the accident who was very shaken up and more than likely going into shock. When the paramedics arrived, the guy asked her if he could touch her to examine her for injuries. Now, if she was unconscious, they would've just done it, but the fact that she was conscious and talking, he asked her permission first.

And, I know a man who was having sex with a high school teacher when he was a student. As were a few friends of his (same teacher). But, they never reported it because they were horny teenage boys, they liked it, she was hot and willing and everyone was getting what they wanted. (Not condoning this AT ALL.) It's abuse. I'm just telling you his version of his incident.

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She manipulated them via peer pressure not to say anything, an act of someone with the risk gene or sociopathetical enough not to recognize taboo boundaries or both.